[01:57] <jobot> Hello, I have tried to create my first charm. The install hook is here: http://paste.ubuntu.com/9759291/ , it fails on line 44 saying that the site does not exist. If you wouldn't mind giving me some guidance on this hook, it would be appreciated
[01:59] <sarnold> jobot: I -think- you need to change this name: /etc/apache2/sites-available/suitecrm to /etc/apache2/sites-available/suitecrm.conf
[01:59] <sarnold> jobot: there was a change somewhere along the way that I -think- requires the .conf extension on those files now.
[02:00] <jobot> Ok. Thank you. I will try that :)
[02:16] <blr> on utopic, cloud-utils is marked recommends for lxc-templates, which appears to result in failed container creation with the local provider
[02:17] <blr> potentially I just had my machine in a weird state, but it seems curious.. might try in a clean vm
[08:54] <Muntaner> good morning
[08:55] <Muntaner> I'm quite new to Juju and having problems
[08:55] <Muntaner> can anyone help me? Am I in the right place?
[08:57] <Odd_Bloke> Muntaner: You are in the right place; ask a question and hopefully somebody will be able to answer it. :)
[08:58] <Muntaner> ok! I have two laptops connected to the same networks, <IP_ADDRESS> and <IP_ADDRESS>
[08:58] <Muntaner> on the second one, I installed devstack to do some tests
[08:59] <Muntaner> and I'm trieing to deploy services from the first laptop
[08:59] <Muntaner> with Juju, naturally :)
[08:59] <Muntaner> I set all the fields with juju-quickstrap
[08:59] <Muntaner> and I get this error:
[08:59] <Muntaner> RROR juju.cmd supercommand.go:323 index file has no data for cloud {RegionOne http://<IP_ADDRESS>:5000/v2.0} not found
[09:00] <Muntaner> is the devstack installation "incomplete" or I am doing something wrong on the first laptop?
[09:01] <Muntaner> it seems like the file "index.json" is missing from the devstack computer... I can read errors like these:
[09:03] <Muntaner>  DEBUG juju.environs.simplestreams simplestreams.go:419 fetchData failed for "http://<IP_ADDRESS>:8080/v1/....../images/streams/v1/index.sjson": failed to GET object images/streams/v1/index.sjson from container con-366ffb69922d4b7892e6bef717239473
[09:06] <Muntaner> and now I'm quite lost, don't know exactly what o do
[09:06] <Muntaner> to do *
[09:07] <dimitern> Muntaner, can you give me a bit more background please
[09:07] <dimitern> ?
[09:07] <Muntaner> whatever you need!
[09:08] <dimitern> Muntaner, how is your deployment structured - 2 machines, each with 2 network interfaces?
[09:08] <Muntaner> two laptops, connected to the same network with internet access. They have the local IPs I wrote - <IP_ADDRESS> and <IP_ADDRESS>
[09:09] <Muntaner> I'm pretty sure they can see each other (from the first one, I'm able to login in the devstack running on the second one via the web browser)
[09:09] <dimitern> ok, so are these IPs configured via DHCP or statically?
[09:10] <Muntaner> Probably static - I can't manage the network configuration
[09:10] <dimitern> Muntaner, also, it will help if you can use paste.ubuntu.com to share some logs to see what errors you're getting
[09:11] <dimitern> Can you give me a summary of the commands/operations you used?
[09:12] <Muntaner> here it is: http://paste.ubuntu.com/9760532/
[09:13] <Muntaner> I used some basic commands... juju init, juju bootstrap, juju quickstart etc.
[09:13] <dimitern> so you're using juju-quickstart - let me ask some of the folks working on this
[09:13] <dimitern> rick_h_, hey, can you have a look at that log please ? ^^
[09:14] <Muntaner> yes, yesterday I arrived to the same error by configuring manually environments.yawl
[09:15] <dimitern> how did you install juju-quickstart?
[09:15] <Muntaner>  1217  sudo add-apt-repository ppa:juju/stable
[09:15] <Muntaner>  1218  sudo apt-get update
[09:15] <Muntaner>  1219  sudo apt-get install juju-quickstart
[09:15] <Muntaner> if needed, I can copypaste my environments.yawl aswell
[09:16] <urulama> dimitern: i'll ping frankban to look at that log, he should be joining soon.
[09:16] <dimitern> Yes please - you can redact keys/passwords/etc. from it first
[09:16] <dimitern> thanks urulama!
[09:18] <Muntaner> here it is my environments.yawl: http://paste.ubuntu.com/9760545/
[09:18] <Muntaner> control-bucket and admin-secret have been autogenerated by clicking on the option in juju-quickstart
[09:19] <dimitern> Muntaner, hmm.. ok so I believe the issue is you'll need to run sync-tools first to generate metadata for your private openstack installation
[09:19] <Muntaner> I'll ask a very silly question now:
[09:19] <dimitern> Muntaner, I'll give you more info in a sec
[09:19] <Muntaner> do the laptop with devstack need to install anything about juju?
[09:19] <Muntaner> because, right now, it has nothing installed - just devstack
[09:20] <dimitern> Muntaner, assuming you want to use the devstack laptop as "the cloud", no - you install the juju client (quickstart does that for you) and use it to bootstrap an environment on the other laptop
[09:21] <Muntaner> exactly, that was the test I wanted to do
[09:21] <Muntaner> just to get involved into the software and try some charms
[09:23] <dimitern> Muntaner, that's *awesome* - thanks for trying Juju out!
[09:23] <dimitern> Muntaner, I'm checking a few places first, but I think I can help you with your issue
[09:23] <Muntaner> Thanks, I already tried it in my laptop only - deploying Wordpress + MySQL has been a piece of cake :)
[09:25] <dimitern> sweet!
[09:30] <dimitern> Muntaner, ok, so let's try the easiest thing first
[09:30] <dimitern> Muntaner, add the following to your environsments.yaml, e.g. just after the line "username:", with the same indentation
[09:32] <dimitern> Muntaner, agent-metadata-url: https://streams.canonical.com/juju/tools
[09:33] <dimitern> Muntaner, sorry - for 1.20.x use "tools-metadata-url" instead
[09:33] <dimitern> or agent-metadata-url
[09:33] <Muntaner> ok, I try now and give feedback
[09:33] <dimitern> ..instead *of
[09:34] <dimitern> Muntaner, then, run $ juju bootstrap --debug 2>&1 > juju-bootstrap.log and paste that please
[09:36] <Muntaner> seems like nothing changed - juju-bootstrap.log is empty
[09:37] <Muntaner> I can copypaste whatever is needed
[09:38] <dimitern> Muntaner, did you see output on the console?
[09:38] <Muntaner> yes, looks like they are the same errors
[09:39] <Muntaner> http://paste.ubuntu.com/9760633/
[09:39] <Muntaner> new environments -> http://paste.ubuntu.com/9760637/
[09:40] <dimitern> Muntaner, hmm.. that's weird.. I'll have a look at the code to see what's happening
[09:43] <dimitern> Muntaner, before anything - please try running $ juju-quickstart --upload-tools --debug and paste the log
[09:45] <Muntaner> yes, just a sec
[09:53] <dimitern> btw I've reported a bug for your issue against quickstart, so we can think how to improve the experience in cases like yours - https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju-quickstart/+bug/1411574
[09:53] <mup> Bug #1411574: quickstart should detect private clouds somehow and generate metadata url in the environments.yaml <juju-quickstart:Confirmed> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1411574>
[09:55] <dimitern> Muntaner, you might later try following the docs here - https://juju.ubuntu.com/docs/howto-privatecloud.html#deploying-private-clouds
[09:56] <Muntaner> I'm back now, sorry
[09:59] <Muntaner> result of juju-quickstart --upload-tools --debug: http://paste.ubuntu.com/9760712/
[10:05] <dimitern> Muntaner, thanks, it's weird how nothing has changed though.. try $ juju metadata validate-images and then also $ juju metadata validate-tools ?
[10:07] <Muntaner> so
[10:08] <Muntaner> juju metadata validate-images: http://paste.ubuntu.com/9760764/
[10:09] <Muntaner> and juju metadata validate-tools: http://paste.ubuntu.com/9760771/
[10:19] <Muntaner> shall I try something else, guys?
[10:23] <dimitern> Muntaner, thanks, will get back to you shortly
[10:24] <Muntaner> ok!
[10:40] <dimitern> Muntaner, let's try adding "images-metadata-url: http://cloud-images.ubuntu.com/releases/" to environments.yaml and re-run $ juju metadata validate-images
[10:42] <Muntaner> at the moment devstack isn't running - I'll try this in minutes
[10:42] <Muntaner> sorry
[10:43] <dimitern> ok, no worries
[10:44] <Muntaner> did we just discover an hidden bug or this may be my bad configuration of the "net" ?
[11:04] <dimitern> Muntaner, well, for one - it's definitely a bug with quickstart, as the user experience can be improved
[11:05] <dimitern> Muntaner, but the reason it fails is insufficient configuration, so it's not a juju bug - at least not yet
[11:09] <Muntaner> aw ok. Now, I'm installing Ubuntu Server on the devstack laptop
[11:10] <dimitern> Muntaner, what happened with devstack btw? why do you need to do this now?
[11:13] <Muntaner> dimitern, laptop owner decided to do so, needs Ubuntu server for other stuff. Btw, the previous devstack installation is "safe" on another partition with Linux Mint (the OS with who I was experimenting and encountered the problems)
[11:14] <dimitern> Muntaner, ok, thanks for the info; I'll need to finish some other stuff now, but please let me know if you still have issues later.
[11:17] <gnuoy`> jamespage, did you see my request for a review of https://code.launchpad.net/~gnuoy/charms/trusty/ceph-radosgw/next-support-ha/+merge/243263 if you have time?ay ?
[12:33] <Muntaner> dimitern, I did what you suggested
[12:33] <Muntaner> I get the same error
[12:34] <dimitern> Muntaner, what did you do last?
[12:34] <Muntaner> I'm pasting it for you
[12:35] <Muntaner> http://paste.ubuntu.com/9761344/
[12:35] <Muntaner> the environments.yawl is: http://paste.ubuntu.com/9761347/
[12:37] <dimitern> Muntaner, I think I have a solution - try theses steps: 1) keep tools-metadata-url set as before; 2) run $ juju metadata generate-images -d $HOME/.juju/metadata (paste any errors); 3) run $ juju metadata validate-images -d $HOME/.juju/metadata (should be fine, but again paste any errors); 4) run $ juju bootstrap --debug --metadata-source $HOME/.juju/metadata and paste the output
[12:37] <dimitern> Muntaner, but first, remove "images-metadata-url" from environments.yaml
[12:39] <Muntaner> dimitern, error: unrecognized command: metadata generate-images
[12:40] <dimitern> Muntaner, sorry - generate-image
[12:40] <Muntaner> ok!
[12:41] <Muntaner> dimitern, ERROR image id must be specified
[12:41] <Muntaner> I'll be back in an hour
[12:41] <Muntaner> boss calling, see you later
[12:42] <dimitern> ok
[12:42] <Muntaner> and thanks :)
[13:01] <dimitern> Muntaner, np - re that error, yes sorry - specifying image id (-i <..>) for generate-image is required. You need to know your devstack available images. Here's an article providing pretty much all you need I think - http://blog.felipe-alfaro.com/2014/04/29/bootstraping-juju-on-top-of-an-openstack-private-cloud/
[13:49] <Muntaner> dimitern, thanks, I'm following that post
[13:52] <dimitern> great!
[13:52] <dimitern> please let me know if you're successful
[14:25] <Muntaner> dimitern, is it hard to write own charms?
[14:26] <dimitern> Muntaner, :) depends on what the charm does, but for simple things it's not hard at all
[14:29] <dimitern> Muntaner, here's the right place to ask just this - any one of the guys like jcastro, lazyPower, mbruzek, from the ecosystem team can help you with that
[14:29] <lazyPower> o/
[14:29]  * lazyPower reads scrollback
[14:29] <jcastro> hi!
[14:29] <dimitern> :)
[14:31] <lazyPower> Muntaner: thats subjective :) but if you were to ask me 1:1 i'd say - "Charm development isn't hard - but writing *good* charms requires a fair amount of thought and testing"
[14:31] <Muntaner> it's fine! was just curious about that ;)
[14:31] <Muntaner> btw, dimitern
[14:31] <Muntaner> I'm reading that post, I jumped the whole part inerent to OpenStack Glance
[14:31] <lazyPower> thats one of the things I love about charm development, its like any other software project. its an iterative process and you can prototype quickly in bash before you commit to a config management framework
[14:32] <lazyPower> regardless of that being something like chef/puppet or using our own charm helpers libraries to greenfield develop in python.
[14:39] <dimitern> Muntaner, yeah - that happens to be the most important part :)
[14:39] <nicopace> Muntaner: two days ago, i implemented a simple charm pretty quickly. You can look at it, it is pretty small in LOCs :) https://code.launchpad.net/~nicopace/+junk/simplewebservercharm
[14:43] <Muntaner> in your opinion, what is the best language to implement charms? is Java fine?
[14:44] <mbruzek> Muntaner you could
[14:44] <mbruzek> Muntaner: but as a Java developer I have tried that and it is not easy.
[14:44] <jrwren> Muntaner: python
[14:44] <mbruzek> Muntaner: Technically you could write a charm in anything that runs on Ubuntu
[14:45] <jrwren> Muntaner: the charm-helpers library makes python for charms the best.
[14:45] <mbruzek> Muntaner: but setting up the Java environment was a hassle for me, just to write the charm hooks in Java
[14:46] <jrwren> you'd have to write part of the install hook in some other language to install the JRE.
[14:46] <mbruzek> but Muntaner it can be done
[14:46] <lazyPower> Muntaner: the fact is we support close to anything/everything - so long as you can encapsulate the logic in a format that resembles the events we model with the hooks. So as a java developer you can certainly write hooks in java but your pre-install will require you to install a JRE, and any third party deps you require - another option would be to write them in scala which is similar to java, but not quite right?
[14:47] <jrwren> scala:java::ocaml:C++
[14:48] <Muntaner> ok, I understand. Thanks for this lot of info
[14:49] <mbruzek> Muntaner: As a fellow Java Developer, I would be willing to help you with any questions you might have.  Please feel free to IM me on IRC
[14:49] <Muntaner> mbruzek, thanks a lot :)
[14:49] <mbruzek> no problem at all
[15:11] <jose> mbruzek, lazyPower, marcoceppi_, tvansteenburgh1: if any of you guys have a minute to do a review, I've got a critical security fix on the waitlist (queue not updating), mind taking a look? https://code.launchpad.net/~jose/charms/precise/owncloud/fix-poodle/+merge/246208 https://code.launchpad.net/~jose/charms/trusty/owncloud/fix-poodle/+merge/246205
[15:24] <jshieh> sorry to be off topic, but looking for macfarlan or a. rosales...a good channel to find either of them?
[15:24] <lazyPower> jshieh: arosales is CO based and should be around within the hour here.
[15:24] <lazyPower> jose: in standup will sync with you afterwords
[15:24] <jshieh> okay
[15:25] <jose> soudns good, thanks lazyPower!
[16:15] <Muntaner> dimitern, got some news
[16:17] <dimitern> Muntaner, is it good? :)
[16:21] <Muntaner> dimitern, no, lol, I got new errors
[16:22] <Muntaner> dimitern, if you want I can copypaste them for you
[16:25] <dimitern> Muntaner, yes please
[16:27] <Muntaner> dimitern, http://paste.ubuntu.com/9762355/
[16:27] <Muntaner> care, it's quite long
[16:41] <arosales> jshieh: hello
[16:41] <arosales> sorry my network was done earlier this morning
[16:56] <Muntaner> dimitern, I'm going crazy, lol
[16:57] <dimitern> Muntaner, *much* better!
[16:57] <dimitern> Muntaner, you've managed to bootstrap almost :)
[16:57] <Muntaner> dimitern, wow! :D
[16:57] <Muntaner> dimitern, yep, what remains now?
[16:58] <dimitern> Muntaner, but the image metadata seems incomplete - try validate-images and also make sure that image id b2731f9e-6971-4c91-bea3-39aa0e23e15b is in it
[17:00] <dimitern> Muntaner, but first - change tools-metadata-url back and drop --upload-tools from bootstrap
[17:00] <dimitern> *back to what it used to be (I see it empty)
[17:01] <dimitern> I have to go unfortunately
[18:22] <nicopace> Hi guys.. is there any way that a charm is run using python2?
[18:23] <asanjar> mwak_: hi there, cory_fu said you had some issues with hadoop charm?
[18:24] <cory_fu> asanjar: mwak_ had to leave for the weekend.  :/
[18:25] <cory_fu> We'll have to reconvene on Monday
[18:25] <asanjar> cory_fu: do you have his email?
[18:25] <cory_fu> No.  :/
[18:25] <asanjar> okay then, we wait till Monday
[18:26] <jrwren> nicopace: What do you mean? charm hooks are run as binaries or #! directive. #!/usr/bin/python is python2
[18:27] <nicopace> yes... when i specify python3 as the hook.py interpreter, it say 'bad interpreter'
[18:27] <nicopace> i ssh-ed into the unit, and it seems python3 is not installed!
[18:28] <nicopace> jrwren: ^
[18:30] <avoine> nicopace: try with #!/usr/bin/env python2
[18:30] <lazyPower> nicopace: is this a precise host? i tend to use env to route those properly
[18:31] <avoine> or just #!/usr/bin/env python actually
[18:31] <lazyPower> also just saw your email to the list about apache2 tests - i haven't dug in, but thanks for taking a look at that :)
[18:31] <nicopace> oh... if it is precise it uses python2 by default?
[18:31] <nicopace> lazyPower: :D
[18:32] <lazyPower> nicopace: python2 is default across precise/trusty
[18:33] <lazyPower> but trusty has python3 interpreter in the base image i do beleive, if not its a simple apt-get install away
[18:33] <nicopace> avoine, lazyPower: that actually works, but as i'm using charmhelpers i need python3
[18:33] <lazyPower> charmhelpers is python2 compliant
[18:33] <lazyPower> as is amulet
[18:34] <nicopace> that's strange... i think it is failing because it requires six
[18:34] <lazyPower> can you hand me a stacktrace of what you're looking at? we've had some issues with test dependencies in the past
[18:34] <nicopace> sure
[18:34] <lazyPower> i think tvansteenburgh1 was the one that put a lot of those fixes in place during our last bug-run.
[18:35] <lazyPower> he's kind of a big deal when it comes to fixing python dependency chains :)
[18:40] <nicopace> lazyPower: http://paste.ubuntu.com/9763023/
[18:41] <nicopace> the problem is that charmhelpers is requiring six, and it is not installed
[18:41] <lazyPower> yep, missing python dependency on the host. Which provider is this?
[18:41] <nicopace> lxc
[18:41] <lazyPower> interesting, thats a cloud image.
[18:42] <lazyPower> if you add python-six to the install routine of the charm does it work as expected?
[18:42] <lazyPower> as in (apt-get install python-six)
[18:42] <nicopace> i can't, as i'm using hooks.py
[18:42] <nicopace> well... i can, but i have to add a middleman
[18:50] <lazyPower> nicopace: typically when there are pre-deps the install hook becomes a shell script that then calls hooks.py
[18:53] <captine> eve all.  can someone point me to where i can figure out what is causing the below (first time trying juju and trying to get it to use br0 for local containers to get network ip's..
[18:53] <captine> ERROR juju.provisioner provisioner_task.go:418 cannot start instance for machine "2": container failed to start
[18:53] <captine> same error for machine 1
[18:55] <lazyPower> captine: that can be for a variety of reasons and its not really clear unfortunately
[18:56] <lazyPower> captine: i'm assuming this is with regard to bridging for reaching into the containers from outside your host right?
[18:56] <captine> lazyPower, am guessing
[18:56] <captine> since the last time we were chatting, i havent looked at things until now
[18:58] <lazyPower> captine: when we last left off, we had just gotten the bridge adapter created and you were working through a bootstrap
[18:58] <captine> yip
[18:58] <lazyPower> we need to look @ your template container configs and ensure the networking was applied to those - i'm betting it wasnt and we have a few options
[18:59] <captine> template container configs?
[18:59] <lazyPower> you'll need inspect the 'config' file in /var/lib/lxc/juju-$series-lxc-template
[18:59] <lazyPower> i bet its pointing at lxcbr0
[18:59] <lazyPower> these template containers get cloned to create the local provider machines
[18:59] <captine> ok
[19:00] <captine> let me check it
[19:00] <lazyPower> the line we are concerned with is: lxc.network.link = lxcbr0
[19:00] <lazyPower> you'll need to change that to br0 and give it another go
[19:01] <captine> changed them both
[19:01] <captine> so now do i destroy the 2 machiens
[19:01] <captine> and bootstrap again?
[19:02] <lazyPower> yep
[19:04] <captine> ok.  crossing fingers
[19:05] <nicopace> lazyPower: sorry, i had to go out for some minutes
[19:05] <nicopace> i understand
[19:05] <nicopace> i'll try that
[19:05] <nicopace> thanks!
[19:05] <lazyPower> nicopace: no worries
[19:05] <captine> lazyPower, assuming this works, is there a way to stop the lxc containers starting automatically?  may want to only start manually>?
[19:05] <lazyPower> captine: there is but i'm not aware off teh top of my head
[19:06] <captine> np.  will google
[19:06] <lazyPower> i'm fairly certain we are generating jobs in /etc/lxc/autostart or something similar to that
[19:06] <lazyPower> it *should* be as simple as removing those, but i cannot be certain as I have not done so before. Typically when i have containers I want to control i dont create them with juju
[19:06] <lazyPower> i build them with lxc-create
[19:07] <stub> nicopace: if you look at charmhelpers/__init__.py you should see some bootstrap code that installs python-six packages. If it is empty, you can fix it by getting that file synced in.
[19:08] <captine> lazyPower, does it work the same way with lxc-create?
[19:08] <captine> would i need to do something to get br0 to be used?
[19:08] <lazyPower> captine: its 100% manual. you get zero magic from juju
[19:09] <captine> ah
[19:19] <captine> lazyPower, not sure it is working.  agent state has been "pending" for 10 minutes
[19:19] <lazyPower> captine: it should be up within 30 seconds depending on disk io
[19:20] <lazyPower> so, if its still pending we have hit another issue
[19:20] <captine> maybe i didnt destroy everything correctly.
[19:20] <lazyPower> what I suggest is actually removing those templates
[19:20] <lazyPower> destroy-environment, remove the templates
[19:20] <captine> from /var/lib/lxc/juju
[19:20] <lazyPower> sudo lxc-destroy --name
[19:21] <lazyPower> remove any containers that are related to juju, destroy the local environment with -y --force, and then start from step 1, it'll re-download the templates and generate them according to teh config
[19:22] <captine> lxc-destroy -- is that to remove the templates
[19:22] <captine> or do i just rm -rf the templates?
[19:22] <captine> from /var/lib....
[19:22] <lazyPower> i would use lxc-destroy
[19:23] <lazyPower> we're basically resetting your local provider environment to square 1
[19:23] <lazyPower> by removing the templates and containers, we're eliminating any traces of old config
[19:23] <lazyPower> and letting juju perform the setup according to the files we edited in our prior session
[19:24] <captine> ok
[19:24] <captine> done.
[19:24] <captine> noting in /var/lib/lxc/
[19:25] <captine> bootstrapping now
[19:29] <marcoceppi_> lazyPower arosales jcastro: maas just got a little more interesting https://insights.ubuntu.com/2015/01/15/virtualbox-extensions-for-maas/
[19:29] <lazyPower> nice!
[19:33] <captine> lazyPower, still not working.  should i remove lxc and juju with apt-get purge?  then start again?
[19:33] <lazyPower> captine: its hard to say depending on why the containers are failing to start. can you try starting the container manually so we can debug?
[19:34] <captine> lazyPower, so the container is not up (  "1":
[19:34] <captine>     instance-id: pending
[19:34] <captine>     series: trusty
[19:34] <captine> how do i manually start that (sorry for pasting multiple rows.  didnt think it would do that)
[19:35] <lazyPower> sudo lxc-start --name $container-name -d
[19:35] <captine> so would the name be "1"?
[19:35] <lazyPower> negative, thats in the output from sudo lxc-ls --fancy
[19:36] <captine> well.  guess what.  my machine must just be slow
[19:36] <captine> just checked status again, and i see an ip address
[19:36] <captine> woohooo
[19:36] <lazyPower> nice :)
[19:36] <lazyPower> remember on first boot
[19:36] <lazyPower> its goign to download those templates
[19:37] <lazyPower> so juju deploy cs:precise/wordpress -- the very first time its pulling down the 200mb cloud image and building that template container
[19:37] <lazyPower> then ti clones it and kicks off the charm
[19:39] <captine> lazyPower, thanks a mil.  I am connecting and it is working well
[19:39] <captine> now the learning starts :)
[19:40] <lazyPower> awesome
[19:40] <lazyPower> captine: glad we got you sorted :) make sure you tell your friends about us here in #juju
[19:40] <arosales> marcoceppi_: thanks for the link talking a look
[19:58] <captine> lazyPower, just a questions.. maybe a dumb one.  i dont need to ssh to these lxc containers to run apt-get update and apt-get upgrade?  or do I?
[19:58] <captine> do they update when i run it on the hose?
[19:58] <captine> host?
[19:59] <lazyPower> they dont
[19:59] <captine> ok
[19:59] <captine> cool.
[19:59] <lazyPower> think of them as isolated VM's. you'll need to apt-get update/upgrade
[19:59] <captine> cool. so i can install management software into them etc.  very cool.
[19:59] <lazyPower> and its typically a good pattern to adopt in your charm to do that during the install hook - but certain members like jrwren have their own opinions about it.
[20:00] <lazyPower> i reference you not out of finger pointing but knowing that you have good and valid reasons for avoiding that p attern jrwren <3
[20:00] <jrwren> :)
[20:00] <captine> well, it will be months/years away from writing charms.  am an accountant by trade, so dont get much time for my tech hobbie :)
[20:03] <captine> lazyPower, what was ur blog address again for the setup of br0 etc... it didnt seem to save in my fabourites
[20:03] <lazyPower> captine: blog.dasroot.net
[20:03] <lazyPower> captine: it would be a good idea to back up those config files we modified in the event you *ever* need to go back through and edit them on another system
[20:03] <captine> thanks
[20:04] <jrwren> I just like the speed of skipping the apt-get update upgrade step.
[20:04] <lazyPower> updates will prompt you that there is a collision and you may have to manually edit them again, but ubuntu is good about not clobbering user updates to config files.
[20:04] <captine> i best get a local apt-mirror setup to install from
[20:05] <lazyPower> read up on setting up a squid deb proxy :)
[20:05] <lazyPower> path of least resistance
[20:06] <jrwren> I like the speed because EC2 IOOPs are very slow and IOOPS on my slow spinning rust drives are also very slow. I'd likely not care on all SSD.
[20:06] <captine> lazyPower, whats the best way to backup the files?  just copy to fileserver?  or is there a good tool?
[20:08] <lazyPower> captine: i myself just keep a git repository of all my config stuff on my NAS
[20:08] <captine> i need to learn to use git more
[20:09] <captine> just installed it on a vm at work to try to get our IT department to use it for application rule file (IBM Cognos files)... but am not very good with it
[20:09] <captine> going to crash. thanks again for all the help
[20:09] <captine> cheers
[20:10] <lazyPower> cheers Caguax :)
[20:10] <lazyPower> er.. yeah
[20:10] <Caguax> cheers lazyPower
[20:38] <arosales> marcoceppi_:  lazyPower: mbruzek: jose: niedbalski_: tvansteenburgh1: dpb1:  Got a good question from the openstack folks I wanted to get your opinion on
[20:39]  * dpb1 listens
[20:39]  * mbruzek waves
[20:40] <arosales> apparmour
[20:40] <arosales> :-)
[20:41] <arosales> Policy states, "Should make use of AppArmor to increase security."
[20:41] <arosales> https://jujucharms.com/docs/authors-charm-policy
[20:41] <arosales> But we don't make any references to how this can be accomplished in the charm, and we unfortunately don't have any good examples.
[20:42] <arosales> I am a +1 for security, but how do we enforce this or if a user says, "Great how do I do this" what is the answer?
[20:42]  * arosales ends question
[20:43] <sarnold> hey arosales :) there's a handful of policies in /etc/apparmor.d/ on most ubuntu systems that can serve as a too-quick introduction to apparmor
[20:44] <arosales> sarnold: hello :-)
[20:44] <sarnold> arosales: jdstrand has a series of short-and-sweet blog posts about apparmor that are a decent enough introduction, too, https://penguindroppings.wordpress.com/2014/06/06/application-isolation-with-apparmor-part-iv/
[20:44] <arosales> Perhaps the right answer here is to reach out to the ubuntu security team and formulate some examples in the docs
[20:45] <sarnold> arosales: one thing that I'd love to see in juju charms is making use of the relation information to help create flexible policies
[20:45] <mbruzek> arosales: This policy predates me, but I have not seen a charm using apparmor.  I suspect *someone* knows how to do that
[20:45] <arosales> sarnold: do you feel this is handled inside the app, or are there extra measure the charm should be taking?
[20:45] <sarnold> arosales: it depends; e.g., installing mysql from the archive will automatically get the packaged apparmor policies installed
[20:46] <mbruzek> good point sarnold
[20:46] <arosales> good point, but others may not .  . .
[20:46] <sarnold> arosales: but if you're creating a charm for software that doesn't already supply its own policy, you could bundle it alongside the charm, drop it into /etc/apparmor.d/, and .. *waves hands about making sure it's loaded before the service is started*
[20:47] <sarnold> arosales: one complicating factor is that apparmor policies currently can't be nested; the local provider uses LXC, which uses apparmor to enforce some of its policies. so, local deployed charms wouldn't be able to use their own policy. (this is being addressed but probably won't be ready for many months.)
[20:49] <sarnold> arosales: jdstrand and sbeattie also put together an apparmor "policy template" language, apparmor-easyprof, that _might_ be a suitable starting place for charm authors to smack out some quick template-based policies -- which might be useful for tuning them based on configurations
[20:49] <arosales> interesting re lxc, didn't think of that
[20:50] <sarnold> I think the mysql init stuff may have mechanisms in place to cope, I haven't looked in ages.
[20:50] <arosales> sarnold: do you have a link to the "policy template" lauguage?
[20:51] <arosales> sarnold: do you know of any issues with xen or kvm in app armour policies?
[20:51] <sarnold> arosales: hrm, I'm having trouble finding links to apparmor-easyprof examples; it's used a bit with snap / click packaging but those tools aren't exactly easy to learn from
[20:52] <lazyPower> arosales: i agree that we need to get documentation around this or link to the proper docs in our charming series docs
[20:52] <sarnold> arosales: xen / kvm should work just fine; libvirtd does have apparmor policies confining portions of the systems (e.g. shared host/guest filesystems sometimes have trouble, and need extended policies) -- but the kvm-emulated machine or xen-emulated machine get their own apparmor policies no trouble
[20:52] <jhobbs> fyi i filed a bug on it here https://github.com/juju/docs/issues/229
[20:52] <lazyPower> arosales: what may be a good starting poitn would be to get a charm school video about security enhnacement with apparmor profiles on a simple charm - like pick the day1 charm and put in some nginx app armor policies
[20:53] <lazyPower> however app armor itself is a beast of a topic and goes into a broad range of things as sarnold has pointed out
[20:53] <lazyPower> and o/ sarnold :)
[20:54] <arosales> jhobbs: thanks
[20:54] <sarnold> hey lazyPower :)
[20:54] <sarnold> I've got to head off for lunch, but I'll be back ~hour :)
[20:54] <arosales> lazyPower: ya I think at a min we need some docs to point users on how to accomplish this
[20:55] <arosales> sarnold: if you come across those links please send them onto us :-)
[20:55] <lazyPower> arosales:  i have a marching order over this next week to get some visualizations done for my slides / video over charm relationships - i can add an addendum to that for app armor as a follow up task.
[20:55] <arosales> sarnold: thanks for the input here, much appreciated
[20:55] <sarnold> the policies are easy enough; the hard part is tying them together to handle e.g. running under lxc, getting them loaded before programs start, etc..
[20:56] <lazyPower> i've ran into some really good articles that we - being juju charmers, are not warehousing, but i can distill that info into a digestible doc for starting out with app armor and link to the app armor community documentation which goes into further depth how to write them
[20:56] <arosales> lazyPower: if you have some time to start some docs on apparmor that wold be helpful
[20:56] <lazyPower> yeah, i'll try tos queeze it in :)
[20:56] <lazyPower> maybe as a slack task
[20:56] <arosales> lazyPower: sounds good
[21:02] <jose> arosales: so as it's a should and not a must hasn't probably been looked at much. the policies are installed with packages on the archive, but I guess this is more directed to packages which are installed from an external sourcec
[21:02] <jose> arosales: agree with contacting the security team, if we can get examples it would make it easier for all authors to understand what is and how it works - without reference in our own docs it's tedious work to understand it
[21:04] <lazyPower> arosales: and if we can get the security team to contribute those docs - would probably be better than me putting down the crumbs of info i have picked up from blog posts over the last 3 years.
[21:04] <lazyPower> sooooooo... theres *that* little tidbit of info
[21:05] <arosales> jose: ya some folks read that should in policy and want to follow it but don't know how, and we don't give docs on how to do so unfortunately
[21:05] <arosales> perhaps some "shoulds" in the policy should be best practice
[21:06] <arosales> policy is usually a little more black and white and not gray. These are valid points the openstack folks like jhobbs are pointing out
[21:06] <lazyPower> i agree with that statement, a should sounds like it can or cannot
[21:06] <lazyPower> policy should be true/false
[21:06] <jose> I believe this specific one would apply to charms that gather things from outside
[21:06] <arosales> jose: lazyPower: but regardless of where it lives we should reach out to the security team and get some good docs around app armor
[21:07] <jose> +1 on that
[21:10] <arosales> jose: lazyPower: also how do you guys evaluate a charm "following the spirit of Ubuntu?"
[21:11] <arosales> another policy item that is kind of vague, but a good one
[21:11] <jose> arosales: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ubuntu_%28philosophy%29 and CoC
[21:11]  * arosales has read that :-)
[21:11] <lazyPower> arosales: http://www.ubuntu.com/about/about-ubuntu/our-philosophy
[21:11] <arosales> just wants to know how you guys evaluate that against a charm
[21:11] <lazyPower> but to be honest
[21:11] <arosales> jose: lazyPower: we allow for a charm to deploy propritary bits so does that go against the philosophy?
[21:12] <lazyPower> i am probably the most lienient about that line in policy
[21:12] <lazyPower> as i haven't nacked anything for not being in the spirit of ubuntu
[21:12] <arosales> well my point is "spirt of ubuntu" could mean a lot of different things
[21:13] <jose> arosales: I wouldn't say so. It is giving you the opportunity to deploy software easily, which is the purpose of a charm
[21:13] <arosales> how does one consistantly review a charm against that policy statement
[21:13] <lazyPower> arosales: well, if it follows the PCBSD spirit, its clearly not in the ubuntu spirit
[21:13]  * lazyPower rimshots
[21:14] <arosales> don't get me wrong I like following the spirit of ubuntu big +1 there
[21:14] <mbruzek> arosales: I read that as a reason to nack a charm if it is doing something illegal or wrong.
[21:14] <jose> but the policy is unclear
[21:14] <lazyPower> arosales: so, what if the charm were to deploy say - a fully pre-loaded XXX photo distribution hub
[21:14] <arosales> my question is how do multiple different reviewers consitantly grade a charm against this line in a similiar manner?
[21:15] <lazyPower> i think thats where the follows the "ubuntu philosophy' comes into play
[21:15] <jose> I would do the same as Matt over there
[21:15] <arosales> shouldn't we say that then?
[21:15] <lazyPower> probably
[21:15] <jose> we need to make it more clear, define it
[21:15] <lazyPower> explicit seems to work better than implicit, there's less room for interp.
[21:16] <jose> I believe we can change that to follows the CoC - not doing anything that could lead to illegal actions
[21:16] <arosales> a good question for your charmers is should policy be explicitly true or false, or maybe
[21:16] <arosales> like read this for policy
[21:16] <arosales> "A charm should follow the ubuntu spirit"
[21:16] <arosales> or
[21:17] <arosales> A Charm must not contain or deploy any illegal software"
[21:17] <arosales> the latter I can clearly check off
[21:17] <jhobbs> in what jurisdiction? :)
[21:17] <arosales> the former is open to my interpretation
[21:17] <arosales> jhobbs: US where the charm store resides
[21:18] <jhobbs> cool
[21:18] <arosales> but valid point
[21:18] <mbruzek> arosales: The problem with that is it may not contain any illegal software, but what if it contains software that allows someone to *DO* something illegal.
[21:18] <lazyPower> mbruzek: thats dangerous - thats like shooting teh protocol of bit torrent because you *can* send illegal content over it
[21:18] <mbruzek> arosales: You could write rules like that all day and someone will find a way around the wording
[21:18] <arosales> mbruzek: well now you just took it tooo far :-)
[21:19] <arosales> do we sell knives still ?
[21:19] <mbruzek> guns don't kill people, people kill people
[21:20] <arosales> mbruzek: lazyPower: jose: pehaps something to discus in your charmers meeting and send to the list
[21:20] <arosales> my suggestion would be for a policy review and to make a decision on clear true/false or explictly leave items ambiguous for the charm author to decide.
[21:21] <mbruzek> arosales: My only problem with your "illegal" wording is that software may be "legal" but we might still might not want it in the charm store.  And there could be different reasons for "illegal software", what if I someone didn't have the legal authority to include the software in a charm.
[21:21] <mbruzek> ?
[21:21] <mbruzek> arosales: If they are all yes or no questions, what do you need us for?
[21:22] <arosales> someone has to check those yes/no
[21:22]  * mbruzek welcomes our new robot ~charmer overlords
[21:22] <lazyPower> mbruzek: we are the charminators of policy - we stamp out immutable config
[21:22] <jhobbs> i have more questions on the policy
[21:22] <jhobbs> "Must also be valid for the charm and/or bundle format defined in Juju's documentation" - what does this mean?
[21:22] <arosales> mbruzek: be interesting to hear what your use case is for "legal" software that we don't want in the charm store
[21:22] <lazyPower> jhobbs: we should really encapsulate these issues in a mail and hit the list with them so the community has an opportunity  to pipe in with these
[21:23] <jhobbs> is that just "you can't upload arbitrary non charm stuff to the store"
[21:23] <lazyPower> i added an addendum to our charmer meeting next week for our pre-discussion about it - but i imagine this will be a long running thread on the list for anyone that wants to participate in policy dicussion
[21:23] <jhobbs> lazyPower: i can do that - what list should i send them to?
[21:23] <lazyPower> jhobbs: the general user mailing list -<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[21:23] <jhobbs> lazyPower: ok
[21:24] <lazyPower> thanks for bringing up these points though and capturing them :)
[21:24] <lazyPower> appreciate it jhobbs, arosales
[21:24] <mbruzek> jhobbs: I believe that means it must be in a charm or bundle format so it works with Juju.
[21:24] <arosales> jhobbs: to answer your question though, yes the charm or bundle needs to be in a valid form (directory) in order for it to be recognized by the charm store
[21:24] <arosales> jhobbs: appreciate the feedback
[21:24] <jhobbs> np, thanks for the detailed responses
[21:25] <mbruzek> arosales: I don't have a good example, but illegal software draws a strange / arbitrary line in the sand.  Someone will work around, or cross the line at some point.
[21:26] <arosales> mbruzek: fair point
[21:26] <arosales> mbruzek: for that point we should be careful with the wording
[21:27] <mbruzek> arosales: Yeah like "ubuntu philosophy" and not being against it
[21:27] <jhobbs> i think the guidance should focus on good people who are trying to do the right thing. like you say, bad people will always try to work around. there should be some net rule for that like "we reserve the right to reject any charm store submission if we feel it is bad."
[21:28] <mbruzek> jhobbs: good point
[21:30] <jcastro> ubuntu philosophy is things like the "don't be a jerk" rule for charms IMO.
[21:30] <mbruzek> jcastro: Can you give an example?
[21:31] <jcastro> My charm deletes user data without asking
[21:31] <jcastro> or ... says it does something but really does something else
[21:31] <jose> same I understand
[21:31] <jcastro> or sends your data to a third party without your knowledge, etc. etc.
[21:31] <jose> basically, follow CoC when writing your charms
[21:32] <jcastro> basically, it's a catchall "don't be a jerk" so that our policy on what is acceptable and not acceptable isn't a huge book
[21:32] <mbruzek> jcastro like to amazon?
[21:32] <jcastro> well this is cloud software so like, everything talks to other services
[21:33] <lazyPower> i seem to remember having this conversation with marco before, and that was his reasoning for the vague terminology
[21:33] <mbruzek> jcastro: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXnfa0H30L4
[21:33] <jcastro> but like, if I install a "bruzek" charm and it phones home to the author so he can spam me, that sucks
[21:33] <seal> is there an easy way to check machine creation status? something similar to juju pprint?
[21:34] <jcastro> mbruzek, his opinions are based on an incorrect assumption, the dash is an online search engine, it's supposed to do that, and it says it does that clearly and it's easy to turn off
[21:34] <mbruzek> seal talk with katco in #juju-dev she did some work on the juju status
[21:35] <seal> mbruzek: thanks
[21:35] <mbruzek> jcastro: I know
[21:35] <dalek57> I'm trying to build a rails deployment with juju, and when trying to start the server I keep getting "no pg_hba.conf entry for host". But looking at the postgres instance, there is an entry in pg_hba.conf that contains all the correct fields. I tried exposing the postgres instance, and no luck. When I run "psql" from a shell on the rails server with all the stuff from my config, I can get to the database. There is only 1 pg_hba.conf on the postgres instance.
[21:35] <jcastro> but if a charm is named "aws-analytics" or something and does report data to AWS for the purpose of analytics, then yeah, I'd expect that
[21:37] <jcastro> if the fields are correct then the rails instance would have had a working connection to the db already right?
[21:38] <dalek57> jcastro: yeah, which is why I'm so baffled. The database.yml looks good to me. When I copy out all the fields and use them as arguments to psql, I get the connection
[21:39] <jcastro> hmph
[22:47] <tvansteenburgh1> cory_fu, kwmonroe: wildfly charms promulgated
[22:47] <cory_fu> Thank you
[22:47] <cory_fu> You're the best
[22:51] <cory_fu> Does anyone know how the tomcat charm is intended to be used?  https://manage.jujucharms.com/charms/trusty/tomcat
[22:51] <cory_fu> Specifically, how does one give a site (war, etc) to it to serve?
[22:57] <jose> cory_fu: it should, web, if it's opening port 80
[22:58] <cory_fu> No, I mean that it doesn't support any clearly defined way to get a WAR into it (particularly from another charm) to get tomcat to serve it.
[22:58] <cory_fu> I was wondering if I'm missing something
[22:58] <cory_fu> mbruzek: I just noticed you're the maintainer.  ^^
[22:59] <mbruzek> cory_fu: Yes I am
[22:59] <cory_fu> Can you answer that question?
[22:59] <mbruzek> cory_fu: I wrote openmrs charm too
[22:59] <mbruzek> cory_fu: subordinate charm.  Check my openmrs
[23:00] <kwmonroe> mbruzek: over the implicit juju-info interface?
[23:00] <cory_fu> mbruzek: We're reviewing http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~miqe/charms/trusty/openbook/trunk/view/head:/README.md
[23:01] <mbruzek> kwmonroe: cory_fu: correct juju-info interface
[23:01] <mbruzek> cory_fu: kwmonroe: I am busy right now, but I can take a look later
[23:01] <cory_fu> So juju-info is the *recommended* way to do that?  Me no likey
[23:03] <mbruzek> cory_fu: the interface was named "tomcat-war"  but it is simply juju-info relation
[23:13] <asanjar> mbruzek: it was mutable config issue
[23:13] <asanjar> :)
[23:13] <mbruzek> asanjar: The root of all EVIL
[23:14] <asanjar> mbruzek: lol
[23:32] <dalek57> cory_fu: what is the best way to get the host address with charm helpers? It looks like there's some promising stuff in charmhelpers.core.host; do those come with deterministic ordering?
[23:47] <lazyPower> cory_fu: if you're co-locating with a subordinate, and provide an implicit interface to exchange the data for the WAR to the parent service - i think thats a more acceptable pattern
[23:47] <lazyPower> but i'm also just starting to explore this territory and the pattern might turn out to be complete tripe


[08:39] <BlindWolf8> Anyone up?
[11:01] <cheater__> hi!
[11:02] <cheater__> i have a problem, i was commiting a (new) file to my repository and lost the internet connection. now this happens:         bzr: ERROR: Cannot lock LockDir(sftp://bzr@aaa.dyndns.org/srv/bzr/aaa/.bzr/branch/lock): File exists: '/srv/bzr/aaa/.bzr/branch/lock': Failure: unable to mkdir
[11:02] <cheater__> (when i try to commit)
[11:02] <cheater__> what can i do now?
[11:04] <cheater__> halp!
[11:05] <cheater__> i've tried doing bzr break-lock to no avail
[13:23] <LarstiQ> cheater__: hmm
[13:23] <LarstiQ> cheater__: what url do you give to break-lock, and what does it say?
[14:53] <cheater__> LarstiQ, that's all it says!
[14:54] <LarstiQ> cheater__: this is what break-lock says?
[14:59] <cheater__> break-lock says nothing
[15:01] <LarstiQ> cheater__: what argument do you give to break-lock?
[15:03] <cheater__> none
[15:03] <cheater__> what should i be giving it?
[15:03] <cheater__> oh btw, the lock file that commit mentions changes every time
[15:43] <LarstiQ> cheater__: (it helps if you address me so I get a highlight and check this channel)
[15:44] <LarstiQ> cheater__: try `bzr break-lock<EMAIL_ADDRESS>possibly with 'aaa' replaced by the relevant information
[15:48] <cheater__> ok let me try
[15:54] <cheater__> LarstiQ, no improvement
[15:55] <LarstiQ> cheater__: same error?
[15:55] <LarstiQ> or, same nothing?
[15:55] <cheater__> same error
[15:55] <cheater__> cannot LockDir
[15:56] <cheater__> bzr: ERROR: Cannot lock LockDir(sftp://bzr@aaa.dyndns.org/srv/bzr/aaa/.bzr/branch/lock): File exists: '/srv/bzr/aaa/.bzr/branch/lock': Failure: unable to mkdir
[15:56] <LarstiQ> cheater__: is /srv/bzr/aaa/.bzr/branch/lock a directory or a file?
[15:57] <cheater__> just a sec
[15:58] <cheater__> it's nothing.
[15:58]  * LarstiQ blinks
[15:58] <cheater__> it used to be a dir, but i was getting that error, so i moved it to lock-old
[15:58] <cheater__> and the error persists
[15:58] <LarstiQ> euh
[15:59] <LarstiQ> that is at least somewhat weird
[15:59] <LarstiQ> cheater__: does ~/.bzr.log have more info?
[15:59] <cheater__> on the account i'm trying to commit from?
[15:59] <LarstiQ> cheater__: yeah
[16:00] <cheater__> just a sec
[16:02] <cheater__> yeah
[16:02] <cheater__> in fact i think it's a lock that's on client side
[16:02] <cheater__> how does bzr do locking on the client side?
[16:04]  * LarstiQ would need to read code for that
[16:04] <cheater__> lockdir.py
[16:04] <LarstiQ> among things :)
[16:04] <cheater__> that's where the exception happens
[16:04] <LarstiQ> cheater__: I believe there are some traces of os locking left
[16:04] <LarstiQ> cheater__: do you have a full traceback?
[16:10] <cheater__> http://pastebin.com/E3BREgAv
[16:11] <cheater__> LarstiQ, ^
[16:11] <LarstiQ> ah hm
[16:12]  * LarstiQ looks at the code
[16:15] <LarstiQ> cheater__: the code notices .bzr/branch/lock doesn't exist and tries to make it, and that then fails
[16:15] <LarstiQ> not sure why
[16:16] <LarstiQ> cheater__: if you are in a position to make a backup of /srv/bzr/aaa that might aid future debugging as to what is going on here
[16:16] <cheater__> yeah i'm root on that server
[16:16] <LarstiQ> cheater__: as to a workaround now, what happens if you create .bzr/branch/lock/ yourself?
[16:17] <LarstiQ> cheater__: another idea is to use bzr+ssh:// instead of sftp://
[16:17] <LarstiQ> cheater__: you said earlier you had a problem so you moved it out of the way
[16:17] <LarstiQ> cheater__: hm
[16:17] <cheater__> yeah i moved it on the server
[16:17] <cheater__> but this error seems to be happening on the client
[16:17]  * LarstiQ wonders if something funky is going on with the filesystem
[16:18] <LarstiQ> cheater__: the client is reporting the error it gets from the transport
[16:18] <LarstiQ> cheater__: but you could check if there is a /srv/bzr/aaa/.bzr/branch/lock on the client
[16:20] <cheater__> no, /srv is empty.
[16:21] <LarstiQ> right, so I remain convinced then that it is reporting about the serverside situation
[16:21]  * LarstiQ goes through the release-notes in the meantime
[16:21] <LarstiQ> cheater__: not the same bug, but https://bugs.launchpad.net/bzr/+bug/733350 got fixed in 2.3.2
[16:22] <LarstiQ> cheater__: I need to run to the store before it closes
[16:24] <cheater__> let me have a look
[16:24] <cheater__> LarstiQ, thanks for your help. if you have time afterwards please give me a shout.
[16:25] <LarstiQ> cheater__: yeah, I'll be back in 45 minutes or so
[16:28] <cheater__> LarstiQ, cool!
[17:52] <LarstiQ> cheater__: messed up timing with dinner a bit, before I go back, did you try making the lock directory and seeing how that changed things?
[18:05] <cheater__> LarstiQ, actually no, let me try
[18:07] <cheater__> actually the lock dir has been created automatically.
[18:07] <cheater__> i tried committing again, and now it argued that a subdir of lock exists
[18:07] <cheater__> bzr: ERROR: Cannot lock LockDir(sftp://bzr@aaa.dyndns.org/srv/bzr/aaa/.bzr/branch/lock): File exists: '/srv/bzr/aaa/.bzr/branch/lock/gacus7hzmf.tmp': Failure: unable to mkdir
[18:22] <LarstiQ> cheater__: it sounds like something weird with either the filesystem or ssh is going on
[18:25] <cheater__> i restarted ssh and it didn't help
[18:26] <cheater__> oh wait!
[18:26] <cheater__> it did!
[18:26] <cheater__> but not really.
[18:26] <cheater__> now, bzr forgot my name ??
[18:26] <cheater__> i need to do whoami again on the client. wtf?
[18:28] <cheater__> hah it's uploading
[18:29] <cheater__> yay, restarting ssh did it
[18:29] <cheater__> but why did bzr forget who i am?
[18:29] <cheater__> that's just bizarre.
[18:32] <LarstiQ> cheater__: *blink*
[18:33] <LarstiQ> cheater__: did something happen to your bazaar config files?
[18:33] <LarstiQ> strange indeed
[18:33] <cheater__> nope!
[18:33] <cheater__> the thing is i'm on a very faulty internet connection
[18:34] <cheater__> like 30% packet loss
[18:34] <cheater__> i've had to kill bzr a few times when trying to commit
[18:34] <cheater__> maybe it was in a half-open state or something
[18:37] <LarstiQ> ah hmm
[18:38] <LarstiQ> cheater__: amything weird in ~/.bazaar ?
[18:38] <LarstiQ> leftover locks maybe
[18:55] <cheater__> let's see
[18:56] <cheater__> nope ~/.bazaar/lock is empty
[18:56] <cheater__> but of course it could have been non-empty before
[18:56] <cheater__> in FACT
[18:56] <cheater__> what i think might have happened is that i killed bzr by ctrl-c but somehow an ssh connection kept lingering
[18:57] <cheater__> i've noticed runaway processes when i do ctrl-c on bzr: i'll do ctrl-c while it's logging in, and it will later keep spamming my tty with ssh authentication challenge dialogs
[18:57] <cheater__> so i'm thinking maybe restarting openssh on the SERVER has taken that out
[18:59] <cheater__> i think that's fairly clunky. i was actually fairly disappointed.
[20:08] <LarstiQ> cheater__: that ssh repeating is an openssh thing
[20:09] <LarstiQ> don't know about serverside lingering processes
[23:52] <cheater_> LarstiQ, i think the process was lingering CLIENT-side
[23:52] <cheater_> except when the server quit, so has the client process


[08:34] <micahg> pitti: are you up for some copies?
[08:34] <pitti> micahg: bring it on
[08:35] <micahg> pitti: thunderbird and enigmail from ubunt-mozilla-security to $RELEASE-security and $RELEASE-updates for lucid, natty, oneiric, and precise, and lightning-extension from that PPA for natty-precise
[08:35] <micahg> *ubuntu-mozilla-security
[08:41] <pitti> 2012-05-04 08:40:44 ERROR   thunderbird 12.0.1+build1-0ubuntu<IP_ADDRESS> in lucid (same version already building in the destination archive for Lucid)
[08:41] <pitti> err
[08:41] <pitti> not all built yet?
[08:41] <pitti> micahg: ^ indeed, tbird/lucid building now on ia64, sparc, and needsbuild on ppc
[08:42] <pitti> micahg: so I can't copy to -security yet (I copied tbird to all -updates releases)
[08:42] <pitti> micahg: want me to go ahead with enigmail, or does that need build first, too?
[08:42] <micahg> pitti: :(, to -security would've failed quickly ;)
[08:42] <pitti> oh, does it? does that enforce that all builds are done?
[08:43] <micahg> nothing is allowed to build in -security
[08:43] <micahg> yeah, you have to copy enigmail and lightning-extension with thunderbird
[08:43]  * pitti starts with -security for enigmail
[08:44] <micahg> pitti: no
[08:44] <pitti> no?
[08:44]  * pitti ^Cs, but lucid already done
[08:44] <micahg> they should go to the respective pockets together
[08:45]  * pitti cancels everything and waits then
[08:45] <pitti> enigmail lucid-security is already copied, as I said; how bad is that?
[08:45] <micahg> can you delete and put everything in -updates and recopy when those builds are done?
[08:46]  * pitti copies enigmail to -updates for now, to match thunderbird
[08:47] <pitti> micahg: I hope the builds won't take too long to fail
[08:47] <pitti> micahg: we can delete enigmail from -security, but that would also kill the previous version
[08:47] <pitti> I guess that's not too bad, as it's also in -updates, and it's better to have none than a bad version in -security for an hour?
[08:48] <micahg> pitti: that's fine, the idea is that people don't upgrade to the new version with a broken extension
[08:48] <micahg> I don't envision many upgrading to 11 right now :)
[08:49] <micahg> rmadison also appears to be broke
[08:49] <pitti> yeah, just noticed
[08:49] <pitti> micahg: enigmail/lucid-security killed
[08:50] <micahg> thanks
[08:52] <pitti> I'm watching the lucid-updates builds, and once they all failed, I'll copy to -security
[08:52] <micahg> ok, thanks, can you ping me when that's done so I can publish the USN?
[08:53] <pitti> yep, of course
[08:53] <micahg> pitti: could you also promote the thunderbird-locale-* binaries listed here to main? http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/universe/t/thunderbird/
[08:57] <pitti> micahg: I promoted the locale packages; but why -mozsymbols?
[08:57] <pitti> they've never been in main and it's not seeded
[08:57] <micahg> pitti: mozsymbols not
[08:58] <micahg> I said specifically thunderbird-locale-* :)
[08:58] <pitti> oh, so you did, sorry :) so, done
[08:59]  * micahg checks how long the ppc build is
[08:59] <micahg> 12 minutes, ok, not bad
[09:00] <micahg> all should be <30 miun
[09:00] <micahg> *min
[09:03] <pitti> micahg: sulfur looks almost done as well, so soon we'll have three parallel builds
[09:10] <pitti> lucid/precise done, waiting on natty/oneiric
[09:24] <pitti> micahg: all copied now *phew*
[09:24] <micahg> pitti: thanks
[13:01] <cjwatson> I think the flood has slowed enough by now
[13:14] <ScottK> Doe we really need the queuebot?
[13:16] <cjwatson> I find it helpful for keeping routine NEW processing going more smoothly.  You can always /ignore it ...
[13:18] <ScottK> OK.
[13:18] <ScottK> If it's useful, I don't mind.
[14:46] <skaet> cjwatson,   I think there needs to be some wording added on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArchiveAdministration to reflect the new use of -proposed for development releases.   Wait until after UDS?  or put a straw man up now for discussion?
[14:46] <skaet> (or at least that feels like the best fit I've found, but if you've spotted a better place,  that's cool).
[14:47] <ScottK> skaet: Since developers can copy stuff over in the development release, I'm not sure that's the best place for it.
[14:48] <skaet> ScottK,  thoughts about a better one?
[14:48] <ScottK> It ought to be self-service and not something more for archive admins to deal with.
[14:49]  * skaet was trying to figure out where the documentation of purpose, and setting expectations should go.
[14:49] <cjwatson> skaet: I don't think anything should be added there until such time as the tools are more useful.
[14:49] <cjwatson> i.e. foundations-p-upload-intermediary
[14:49] <cjwatson> Otherwise we encourage people to do lots of stuff we aren't set up to accept yet.
[14:49] <ScottK> skaet: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment (and I agree with cjwatson on timing).
[14:50] <cjwatson> And agreed, if archive admins have to do this manually we've lost.
[14:50] <ScottK> Also that page looks like it could use some general modernization.
[14:50]  * skaet nods
[14:51] <skaet> cjwatson,  ok, post UDS (where post is dependent on tool timing).
[15:51]  * infinity blinks at queuebot's stutter.
[15:51] <seb128> ^ sorry, messed up with upload here, I rejected the buggy ones...
[15:51] <infinity> Oh.
[16:15] <tumbleweed> cleaned up a bunch of bugs we were subscribed to that arnen't in terminal states or Incomplete. not too sure what to do with the rest: http://tinyurl.com/dxn8dve
[16:31] <skaet> tumbleweed,  take a pass at the ones listed as undecided and if there are ones that fit the high/critical category,  series target to quantal, and for precise decide if SRU target or not.   (some of the cleanups maybe should be)
[16:31] <skaet> (and thanks for doing the scrubbing :) )


[05:20] <navin> hello, I want to learn how to create applications which are meant for use on terminal only ....i mean to say if i do $sshcse 1  then it does an ssh to a particular server... Kindly point me to links...!
[14:20] <stqn> Hi


[00:26] <vadi> alpha 3 installation froze on downloading packages, and the 'skip' button is not working. What to do?
[00:27] <vadi> Here is what the log says: http://pastebin.com/i9X39vwb it's sitting here doing nothing at all now.
[00:29] <theperfecttaco> is there any way to customize the applications launcher on the sidebar?
[00:34] <vadi> Well, I guess it's hosed.
[01:41] <bcurtiswx> someone with a fully updated natty running empathy see if you can change your status with the applet
[02:57] <Alex--> i'm running 11.04 alpha 3 from live usb, but the unity interface doesnt shows up, why is that??
[02:58] <arand> Alex--: Video drivers? When you loging you can choose which to start, it's called standard or something...
[02:59] <Alex--> it says desktop
[02:59] <arand> s/loging/login/
[02:59] <Alex--> where can i install video drivers?
[02:59] <arand> jockey-gtk
[02:59] <Alex--> arand: and then?
[03:01] <arand> Install if available, but it's going to be hard to start from al live instance since it needs restarting to take effect, unless oyu are lucky and can just get by with restarting x/gdm ..
[03:01] <Alex--> arand: No properietary drivers are in use on this system.
[03:01] <arand> Alex--: What graphics card do you have?
[03:01] <Alex--> i dont know
[03:01] <Alex--> onboard
[03:01] <arand> Then it's something else I'd reckon.
[03:01] <arand> I don't know, I'm afraid.
[03:02] <Alex--> :(
[03:03] <arand> You could try going into software centre and preferences, enable universe&multiverse form software sources, and see what jockey says after that...
[03:03] <Alex--> i already did do
[03:03] <Alex--> updates > settings
[03:04] <arand> But if you have an onboard card there normally aren't any additional drivers...
[03:04] <Alex--> yeah i know
[03:04] <arand> So you are able to run compiz?
[03:04] <Alex--> thatś why im wondering
[03:04] <Alex--> i dont know
[03:04] <Alex--> where can i see?
[03:05] <arand> From opensuse wiki "Test if composite is enabled: running grep Composite /var/log/Xorg.0.log as root should show Extension "Composite" is enabled"
[03:06] <Alex--> [    45.758] (II)         Composite (RENDER acceleration)
[03:07] <arand> I'm not sure if you'd simply be able to run "unity --replace &disown" which might tell you what happens when you try to start it
[03:07] <Alex--> nothing
[03:07] <Alex--> it flickers
[03:07] <Alex--> and the nthe orignal desktop appears
[03:07] <Alex--> but no top bars
[03:07] <Alex--> wait lemme logout
[03:08] <Alex--> how to logout?
[03:08] <Alex--> shortcut
[03:08] <Fluttershy> welp I broke window switching, I think
[03:10] <Alex--> Hello, logged in again, what was the command?
[03:11] <Alex--> (actually i rebooted)
[03:11] <Alex--> command to activate unity
[03:11] <Alex--> unity --replace ?
[03:11] <arand> I guess just try "unity --replace"
[03:11] <Alex--> not working
[03:11] <Alex--> the old one comes back
[03:11] <Alex--> http://paste.ubuntu.com/575806/
[03:13] <Alex--> unity-panel-service: no process found
[03:13] <Alex--> Window manager warning: 0 stored in GConf key /apps/metacity/general/num_workspaces is out of range 1 to 36
[03:13] <Alex--> arand: see the pastebin link
[03:14] <arand> Hum.... no idea, time to run "ubuntu-bug unity" I guess, and attach the log you have.
[03:14] <Alex--> it' s busy now
[03:15] <Alex--> with reporting
[03:15] <arand> Or see if someone else in this channel knows more, although it seems rather uncrowded at this time..
[03:15] <Alex--> " Your system is providing 3D via software rendering rather than hardware rendering.  This is a compatibility mode which should display 3D graphics properly but the performance may be very poor.  If the problem you're reporting is related to graphics performance, your real question may be why X didn't use hardware acceleration for your system."
[03:16] <arand> Right, that might be your answer... video drivers are not providing acceleration enough for unity...
[03:17] <Alex--> and how to fix it?
[03:17] <arand> Which I've no idea how to fix when it comes to onboard graphics, you might want to look around launchpad for bugs regarding your specific card.
[03:18] <Alex--> ok
[03:18] <arand> I'm off, good luck
[03:18] <Alex--> thanks, bye
[03:19] <Alex--> should it work when I insert my graphical card?
[03:19] <Amaranth> Alex--: What graphics card are you using now?
[03:21] <Alex--> onboard
[03:21] <Alex--> from my motherboard
[03:21] <Amaranth> Alex--: lspci | grep -i vga
[03:21] <Amaranth> paste the output
[03:21] <Alex--> 00:0d.0 VGA compatible controller: nVidia Corporation C61 [GeForce 6150SE nForce 430] (rev a2)
[03:21] <Daekdroom> Alex--, you're lacking 3D acceleration it seems
[03:22] <Daekdroom> Oops.
[03:22] <Alex--> lol fail
[03:22] <Amaranth> Alex--: Oh, that's trouble
[03:22] <Alex--> trouble for what?
[03:22] <Alex--> old motherboard?
[03:22] <Daekdroom> Trouble for: no 3D driver that works currently
[03:22] <Alex--> does it helps to reboot with my graphical card in it?
[03:22] <Amaranth> Alex--: You can see if the open source driver will work but the only driver out that supports xserver 1.10 is a beta that's only for newer nvidia cards
[03:23] <Amaranth> Alex--: What card do you have?
[03:23] <Alex--> Nvidia GeForce 9600GT
[03:23] <Alex--> can run gta iv and all that games
[03:23] <Amaranth> Alex--: Same problem there, you'd have to manually install the beta driver
[03:23] <Alex--> but i dont have it inserted in my pc
[03:23] <Amaranth> aka lolnvidia
[03:23] <Alex--> ?
[03:23] <Alex--> wait lemme reboot and insert the card in my pc
[03:24] <bjsnider> nvidia-current will work with the 9500 gt
[03:24] <Daekdroom> It's pretty certain to not work out of the box
[03:24] <bjsnider> and his old card too
[03:24] <Daekdroom> bjsnider, really? nvidia binary support goes that far?
[03:24] <Amaranth> Alex--: nvidia and fglrx drivers always lag behind
[03:24] <bjsnider> Daekdroom, theoretically starts at the 6k cards
[03:24] <Amaranth> bjsnider: nvidia-current way have the beta driver but I thought it only supported 7000 and newer
[03:24] <Amaranth> ah
[03:24] <Amaranth> !info nvidia-current
[03:25] <bjsnider> he really should be using the newer card if at all possible
[03:31] <Alex--> driver is now activated
[03:31] <Alex--> and in use
[03:32] <Alex--> why is my graphical card fan running at 100%?
[03:33] <Alex--> Yes it's working now! =D, but only my graphical fan is running at 100% speed
[03:34] <Alex--> why?
[04:02] <Code_Bleu> Can i remove Unity Shell from 11.04 and go back to Gnome Shell?  I really do not like Unity
[04:18] <kklimonda> you can use gnome3 team ppa to get gnome-shell
[05:59] <psusi> so anyone wanna help test boot speed improvements? http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1686699
[07:55] <sindile> where can i find desktop effects, running as guest using vmware workstation
[07:55] <bazhang> sindile, vmware supports 3D?
[07:56] <sindile> bazhang: i have enabled 3d support in vmware
[08:02] <Amaranth> sindile: If it supports what compiz needs the default login will give you a unity desktop
[08:02] <Amaranth> sindile: afaik it doesn't support compiz needs though, just generic OpenGL
[08:10] <sindile> what about virtualbox
[09:03] <trijntje> Hi all, are there problems with the ubuntu site? It wont let me download the natty2 alpha..
[09:04] <trijntje> http://www.ubuntu.com/testing/natty/alpha2
[09:04] <cousin_mario> Hello.
[09:05] <cousin_mario> alpha3 finally runs well under VirtualBox, but Unity rivals The Gimp in usability. May I inquire who originally conceived its UI?
[09:54] <inknoir> hi, i installed xubuntu 11.04 alpha 2. is it the usual procedure to do all the updates until the official 11.04 is out for a stable system, or do i have to do a new installation then?
[09:54] <bazhang> !beta
[09:54] <bazhang> inknoir, ^^
[09:54] <inknoir> oh, hi bazhang :)
[09:54] <bazhang> :)
[09:55] <bazhang> up to you really. you could make a separate home partition , for example
[09:56] <inknoir> i was asking because the update wants to install more than 100 new packages (including evoultion-blabla). i would like to keep them away from my disk, if possible
[09:56] <inknoir> *evolution
[09:57] <inknoir> i did a new installation two days ago, ran the update and several things went wrong. for example the network-notification was gone and i couldn't get i back by rearrangig the panel.
[10:06] <inknoir> is there a seperate xubuntu buglist, or do i have to read the ubuntu one?
[10:14] <inknoir> yeah, well, forget it.
[11:42] <aguitel> when i try to boot natty with pendrive in my netbook it fail
[13:44] <BluesKaj> Howdy
[14:06] <penguin42> Hi BK
[14:08] <coz_> hey guys
[14:10] <BigMac> does anyone know when firefox 3.6.15 will be available in the repositories?
[14:13] <coz_> BigMac,  you want to rid of firefox 4.x?
[14:14] <BluesKaj> BigMac, whaich kubuntu are you running?
[14:14] <BluesKaj> which
[14:15] <BigMac> i'm on ubuntu 10.10
[14:17] <BluesKaj> BigMac, best to ask in #ubuntu, but i think 3.6 is default on 10.10
[15:02] <BluesKaj> having a frustrating issue with booting on my other linux pc , it won't boot past plymouth unless I run the recovery kernel , I do so and choose fix broken packages , which appears to nothing , I can then boot by logging in from the tty and using startx
[15:02] <BluesKaj> to do
[15:04] <BluesKaj> seems like a kdm problem
[15:04] <BluesKaj> bbl
[16:36] <psusi> anyone want to help test faster boot times? http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1686699
[16:39] <penguin42> curious; I've turned on seconds on the clock and it updates every 2 seconds
[16:40] <Daekdroom> penguin42, I had it turned on but didn't notice it until now.
[16:41] <penguin42> Daekdroom: I could swear there was a bug that said that you couldn't enable seconds; but I can't find it - that's obviously been fixed
[17:45] <nperry> Anyone install gnome3 ppa?
[17:46] <nperry> t/install/using the
[17:47] <Daekdroom> nperry, I tried it last night and it messed up stuff pretty bad.
[17:48] <nperry> Ah, hasn't messed much of my stuff up... Just can't install libgtk3
[17:48] <Daekdroom> Installing packages from it broke themeing of my system.
[17:48] <Daekdroom> Including GDM
[17:48] <nperry> Yeah thats prob becuase libgtk3 won't install :P
[17:49] <Daekdroom> It installed here.
[17:49] <Daekdroom> so did gnome-shell, and I even could try it
[17:49] <nperry> Humm, wonder how you managed that!
[17:51] <nperry> Might ppa-purge and jhbuild
[18:08] <theperfecttaco> IN unity launcher - (using narwhal but i don't think this is a narwhal-specific issue) when I resize a window out of maximized it defaults to the upper-left corner of the screen. due to the launcher button in that same corner I'm unable to reach the min-resize-max buttons to or the titlebar in order to move the window. is there a workaround for this?
[18:09] <coz_> theperfecttaco,  do you have compizconfg-settings-manager installed?
[18:09] <coz_> theperfecttaco,  first I should ask if you are using the 3d environment for Unity
[18:09] <theperfecttaco> yes and yes
[18:10] <coz_> theperfecttaco,  :) ok   open ccsm and click on the Unity plugin and enable autohide for the launcher
[18:11] <theperfecttaco> coz_:  that's my current setting. the resize buttons are in that upper corner though so when i mouseover the upper left it shows the launcher rather than letting me access those buttons
[18:11] <coz_> ooo
[18:11] <coz_> theperfecttaco,  an if you disable autohide...what happens?
[18:11] <Volkodav> is this could not "calculate the upgrade" bug is resolved yet ?
[18:12] <coz_> Volkodav,  you mean from 10.10 to 11.04 upgrade?
[18:12] <Volkodav> no
[18:13] <theperfecttaco> coz_: with autohide disabled, basically the same thing
[18:13] <coz_> theperfecttaco,  crap...
[18:13] <coz_> theperfecttaco,  mm  I dont know then
[18:13] <coz_> theperfecttaco,  is this on a netbook or desktop system
[18:14] <theperfecttaco> coz_: i'm thinking it's just one of those issues that's going to have to wait for the developers, ha. at least i can access "close" from the file menu, in most cases. i'm on a laptop
[18:15] <coz_> theperfecttaco,  ah ok,, have you thought of using   classic gnome with or without effects?
[18:16] <theperfecttaco> coz_: when i'm in classic mode everything is as normal. i like unity enough to just deal with the occasional inconvenience, i suppose
[18:17] <theperfecttaco> i wonder if there's any way to change the default position of a window on resize
[18:18] <coz_> theperfecttaco,  not sure ,, I dont think compiz's settings are going to help...
[18:20] <theperfecttaco> coz_, i don't think so, i've spent the past few hours playing around in compiz and don't remember seeing any settings like that. staying away from compiz for a while, it's crashed my system about ten times so far today - if it happens again i' might start throwing stuff
[18:22] <coz_> theperfecttaco,  :)  yes I have heard of compiz crashing in Unity  more often than not lately
[18:24] <theperfecttaco> coz_, it causes unity to close and disables the keyboard. not fun.
[18:27] <coz_> theperfecttaco,  painful  for sure
[18:27] <coz_> theperfecttaco, I am reinstalling natty on another system to test it
[18:29] <theperfecttaco> coz_: i wish i'd had the foresight to do the same. or virtualbox within maverick. is it possible to downgrade?
[18:30] <nperry> How do I install a specific version of a package
[18:30]  * nperry forgot
[18:31] <coz_> nperry,  generally, if in the repository I open syaptic ..search for the package name and see which is already available
[18:32] <nperry> coz_: I seem to have messed up   libindicator3: Breaks: libindicator2 (<= 0.3.20-0ubuntu1) but 0.3.18-0ubuntu1 is to be installed.
[18:32] <nperry> libindicator2 is needed by unity, right?
[18:33] <nperry> !info libindicator2/natty
[18:33] <coz_> nperry,  mm not sure   I am not in natty right now
[18:33] <nperry> !info libindicator2 natty
[18:33] <coz_> there you go
[18:33] <nperry> !info libindicator3 natty
[18:34] <poplu> hey guys, having some problems with installing 11.04 (graphic and alternate) both dont work..
[18:35] <poplu> it just hangs up and doesnt go on.. really confusing, 10.10 is working perfectly..
[18:36] <poplu> in the graphic installer and even in the live CD it hangs up at the point where it says 2,6 GB harddrive space (+) internet (+)
[18:37] <poplu> and in the alternate after setting the time zone,
[18:37] <nperry> coz_: right i think it wants libindicator3
[18:37] <nperry> libindicator2 is old
[18:38] <nperry> Right time to go back to installing gnome-shell
[18:38] <nperry> the ppa doesn't work so following jhbuil on the natty forum
[18:45] <poplu> hm, does nobody have an idea? btw, is there any difference between the alpha 3 and the daily builds? except that in the daily builds some packages are newer?
[18:45] <penguin42> poplu: Do you have an yUSB devices other than keyboard/mouse plugged in?
[18:47] <coz_> popey,  you can also try   sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get dist-upgrade to see if anything is new
[18:48] <nperry> coz_: wrong highlight :P
[18:48] <coz_> darn
[18:48] <coz_> poplu,   sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get dist-upgrade
[18:48] <coz_> nperry,  thanks :)
[18:49] <poplu> hm, dont know what a yUSB device is, but I try to install it on a Laptop, only plugged in the docking station (for the CD drive, but installation from USB drive (then without the docking station) didnt work either). besides this a power plug and a lan cable...
[18:50] <penguin42> poplu: Sorry, just a typo - any USB devices
[18:51] <penguin42> hmm, that should work - when the installer hangs does the rest of the machine hang or just the installer
[18:52] <poplu> just the installer, in the graphical, I still can press Cancel
[18:53] <poplu> np ;) just wasnt sure wether it may is something special usb or so :D
[18:55] <penguin42> poplu: In that case I think there is a log that you can look at, or start it in a shell
[18:58] <penguin42> poplu: Check /var/log/syslog for anything interesting, also try running ubuiqity from a shell
[19:22] <jiltdil> i want to use alpha 3,can i use it like live usb
[19:23] <jiltdil> so that it doesnot mesh my system is live mode is ok ao i have to wait a month to use it
[19:27] <yofel> jiltdil: sure, should work
[19:27] <yofel> jiltdil: unity will only work though if your graphics driver supports OpenGL (3D) out of the box
[19:28] <jiltdil> yofel: actually some one of my frnd instal lit but it makes the system slow and most of prograams didn't work so i think it is better to use it in live mode
[19:28] <jiltdil> yofel:how to check about this graphics
[19:29] <yofel> probably best to just boot it and find out - what graphics card do you have?
[19:29] <jiltdil> nvidia
[19:31] <jiltdil> yofel: model:GeForce 9400 GT should it support OpenGL
[19:31] <yofel> ah, I don't know if nouveau will work there - but if you make a persistent usb driver you can probably install the nvidia driver on the usb driver
[19:32] <yofel> *usb drive
[19:32] <jiltdil> nvidia showing openGL option
[19:33] <yofel> the nvidia driver works fine, I just never tried that on an USB live disk - should probably work
[19:33] <jiltdil> yofel:thanks.tell me that is 11.04 is a 3d like OS
[19:34] <yofel> well, unity uses compiz, so you need to have working opengl to use unity
[19:47] <penguin42> not particularly 3d
[19:48] <jiltdil> penguin42:not understood plz xplain
[19:49] <penguin42> jiltdil: Well even with unity there aren't actually 3d things on the desktop, it just uses GL to do some of the work
[19:49] <jiltdil> penguin42:it means many application uses this
[19:50] <jiltdil> penguin42:may u plz tell me my nvidia GeForce 9400 GT  supports openGL or not so i use 11.04
[19:51] <penguin42> sorry, I don't do Nvidia
[19:53] <arand> I know my 8600gt supports it, so with proprietary drivers I would assume so.
[19:55] <yofel> jiltdil: it does with proprietary drivers - it's just that those aren't installed out of the box and nouveau will probably not be enough for unity. So you'll have to install the drivers and reboot if you want to try unity
[19:56] <jiltdil> yofel:how to do this any help1
[19:57] <yofel> jiltdil: make sure you make the usb driver have a persistent part in Usb creator - then install the nvidia drivers after booting it
[19:57] <yofel> that should work I think, not sure
[19:58] <jiltdil> yofel:should i install nvida in live mode if i want touse 11.04 in live mode?
[20:00] <yofel> jiltdil: yes, the driver needs to be installed after entering live mode - if nouveau doesn't work with unity on your card you should get usual gnome - then install the drivers, reboot and hope for the best
[20:02] <jiltdil> "you should get usual gnome"  don't understood plz xplain
[20:04] <jiltdil> thanx to all ! good night
[20:05] <avis> how do adjust natty screen configuration to installation defaults ?  i did not nuke my old maverick leftovers
[20:14] <aguitel> is there minmal cd with natty ?
[20:14] <coz_> aguitel,  I think once its released there will be one
[20:14] <coz_> aguitel,  they seem to show up once the release is out
[20:14] <aguitel> coz_, do you know the link ?
[20:15] <aguitel> coz_, a ok
[20:15] <coz_> aguitel,     https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/MinimalCD
[20:15] <coz_> aguitel,  when it comes out it will be on that link
[20:15] <aguitel> coz_, ok
[20:16] <coz_> aguitel,  and i use minimal install cd's regularly
[20:16] <yofel> there are ones actually, just adjust the link - http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/natty/main/installer-i386/current/images/netboot/
[20:16] <yofel> don't ask me if that works
[20:16] <aguitel> coz_, i waqnt to install 11.04 in aspireone d260 netbook
[20:17] <coz_> aguitel,  ah I see... well you could try that link yofel  mentioned but I have no idea either if it actually works
[20:17] <aguitel> coz_, i will play with it
[20:18] <coz_> nool  let me know if it actually works :)
[20:18] <coz_> cool
[20:19] <aguitel> coz_, the mini.iso image is working with netbootin ?
[20:19] <coz_> aguitel,  I dont know
[20:21] <aguitel> yofel, the mini.iso is working with netbootin ?
[20:21] <yofel> as I said - no idea
[20:22] <aguitel> ok
[20:24] <nperry> is there a gnome3 channel?
[20:26] <apparle> hi guys. I tried kubuntu natty alpha 2 and I am unable to start kwin effects. any help
[20:26] <penguin42> apparle: What graphics card?
[20:26] <penguin42> apparle: and what happens if you try to start them?
[20:27] <apparle> I have a ati xpress radeon
[20:27] <apparle> penguin42: screen turns black and there is no error
[20:27] <penguin42> apparle: Open driver or frglx/closed driver?
[20:27] <apparle> penguin42: I do see and can move the mouse pointer
[20:28] <apparle> and I do anything.... say a right click momentarily I see a white box near the pointer
[20:28] <apparle> penguin42: open
[20:28] <penguin42> apparle: Sounds like a graphics driver bug
[20:29] <penguin42> apparle: On the desktop effects try going to the advanced tab and flipping the Compositing type from OpenGL to XRender; it might have a better chance
[20:29] <apparle> penguin42: it is for sure, because even when I disable the effects, then also a lot of screen corruption
[20:30] <apparle> penguin42: I am using opengl till 10.10 so I don't see why I should change. xrender is very slow
[20:30] <apparle> penguin42: even I tried the LIBGL_ALWAYS_INDIRECT
[20:30] <penguin42> apparle: Yeh well it sounds like you're hitting a bug; so 1) report it 2) Try the xorg-edgers packages which are bleeding edge drivers 3) Try the closed driver or 4) Try xrender
[20:32] <apparle> penguin42: closed driver out of question..... a legacy onboard gpu. as I told you xrender is very slow.
[20:32] <apparle> penguin42: is there anyway to try the bleeding edge drivers from live cd
[20:32] <penguin42> hmm not sure from livecd, it's quite a lot of packages
[20:33] <apparle> penguin42: I got these problems on kubuntu. should I check with ubuntu as well?
[20:34] <penguin42> apparle: You could; the drivers will be the same, it's just a matter of whether you hit the same problems with the gnome window managers; my guess is that it'll breka just as badly if you turn on gnome desktop effects/compiz
[20:34] <apparle> penguin42: and how to install alpha on wubi
[20:34] <apparle> penguin42: the same procedure works.... running wubi.exe in the image?
[20:35] <apparle> penguin42: what about the wubi installation
[20:35] <penguin42> don't know about wubi, I don't do windows
[20:36] <apparle> penguin42: I also don't use it much. but it is good for testing, don't have to do the hassle of partitioning
[20:45] <psusi> anyone want to help test faster boot times? http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1686699
[20:46] <penguin42> my boot times on this machine are dominated by a bug somewhere anyway so probably won't help
[20:55] <aguitel> coz_, how install minimal gnome with netinstall ,sudo aptitude install gnome-core ?
[21:02] <coz_> aguitel,  probably sudo apt-get install ubuntu-desktop
[21:03] <coz_> aguitel,  but I have not used that particular manner of installation so I cant be sure
[21:04] <aguitel> coz_, ubuntu-desktop install everything i read
[21:04] <yofel> ubuntu-desktop will install the usual ubuntu desktop installation as long as recommends are installed too
[21:04] <yofel> gnome-core is a debian thing I think
[21:05] <nperry> coz used jhbuild before?
[21:06] <nperry> libical >= 0.43 is needed by evolution-data-server  but 0.44 has been released in ubuntu natty - anyway to force build without this module?
[21:08] <coz_> nperry,  no I have not ,, at least that I can recall
[21:09] <nperry> Can't figure this annoying thing out!
[21:13] <coz_> nperry,  i cant help with this one,, sounds puzzling
[22:09] <donniezazen2> Hi
[22:29] <aguitel> i cannot boot with usb natty
[22:55] <penguin42> hmm, so I'm running Unity and it's actually holding together - but I'm reading an article and there is mentionof a 'system menu' and a 'user menu' - where is the system menu?
[22:57] <penguin42> is this just referring to the thing you get after clicking on the 'application's and selecting system?
[23:10] <aguitel> i cannot boot with usb natty
[23:22] <Daekdroom> Anyone else noticing a compiz memory leak with unity?
[23:23] <arand> penguin42: Or is it preferences/admin ?
[23:30] <BUGabundo> evening
[23:34] <penguin42> arand: How do you get to that?
[23:35] <arand> penguin42: Well I was thinking they were refering to the old, gnome-menu organisation, but probably not.