[23:21] <redheat> it's all clean and it's got a single partition on it..
[23:21] <invisime> ok, kostkon. I've got a crazy idea. I have two sound cards on this machine. only one of them has any output jacks on it (the usb one). can I setup xbmc to only grab a hold of the internal one and then setup pulse/alsa to pipe anything from that one to the USB one, and also set them up so that they send anything to the USB one also still to the USB one? I'm not sure what the technical terms for any of this is, but that seems
[23:21] <SonikkuAmerica> redheat: Check the device name. /dev/sdXX
[23:22] <redheat> it's dev/sda
[23:22] <SonikkuAmerica> redheat: It should be formatted as NTFS.
[23:22] <kostkon> invisime, seems too complicated to me
[23:22] <redheat> it is
[23:22] <redheat> SonikkuAmerica roger that
[23:23] <SonikkuAmerica> redheat: Open a new terminal (or the same one if it has a $ prompt)
[23:23] <redheat> ok
[23:23] <SonikkuAmerica> redheat: and [ mkdir w7
[23:23] <SonikkuAmerica> ]
[23:23] <redheat> ok
[23:24] <redheat> roger that..
[23:24] <redheat> SonikkuAmerica roger that
[23:24] <SonikkuAmerica> Next, type [ mount $ISOPATH w7 ], where $ISOPATH is the path to your ISO.
[23:24] <SonikkuAmerica> redheat: ^ and if you don't know what the path is, say "Help!"
[23:26] <redheat> roger that..
[23:26] <jdukiet> I am running a wubi install of ubuntu 12.0.4 LTS and would like to import my music from my windows user account to rythmbox. Somehow I was able to access it with a prior search, but have not been able to reproduce it. LOL
[23:27] <roothorick> what do I install to get meaningful backtraces in Xorg.0.log?
[23:28] <SonikkuAmerica> redheat: So... the next thing to do is as follows:
[23:28] <redheat> ok
[23:28] <SonikkuAmerica> redheat: Quit GParted (if you haven't already)
[23:29] <redheat> ok
[23:29] <redheat> done
 ok
[23:30] <Korejora> I can't get my wireless card to work. It doesn't have Linux drivers, so I tried installing the Windows drivers with ndiswrapper. They seem to be installed, but I get an error "couldn't load driver" for them before Ubuntu even starts. Does that mean they're just not compatible?
[23:30] <SonikkuAmerica> redheat: Now, back in the terminal, type [ cp -r w7/* /media/$HASH ], where $HASH is the hexadecimal that appears for your HDD. (Say "HELP" if you need help locating it).
[23:31] <histo1> Korejora: What chipset does your network card use?
[23:31] <invisime> kostkon: pulse isn't starting because it's waiting for me to init a desktop through x11. but since I'm not doing that, it doesn't run.
[23:31] <nooob> hi guys..... i installed Ubuntu One and forgot passwrd to my keyring... deleting .local/share/keyrings doesn't work, so doesn't reinstalling UO.... help please!
[23:31] <kostkon> invisime, hmm interesting
[23:31] <redheat> sonikkuAmerica, you still with me?
[23:31] <SonikkuAmerica> redheat: I'm right here. Problem?
[23:32] <redheat> oh, sorry I missed the first couple of lines..sorry
[23:32] <Korejora> @histo1 - I think Ralink? I don't know how to tell.
[23:32] <SonikkuAmerica> redheat: Do you need me to repeat my last stmt?
[23:32] <redheat> sorry..
[23:32] <danktamagachi> does anybody know what the following line does in .gtkrc-2.0
[23:32] <danktamagachi> include "/usr/share/themes/oxygen-gtk/gtk-2.0/gtkr
[23:32] <histo> Korejora: lspci    will show you
[23:32] <danktamagachi> include "/usr/share/themes/oxygen-gtk/gtk-2.0/gtkrc"
[23:33] <histo> Korejora: unless it's a usb dongle
[23:33] <ecips> Hi folks - I'm having problems playing back media files today for some reason. Something goes wrong and I lose audio, and files stall and wont play. I am running raring. Is anyone aware of anything that is broken?
[23:33] <SonikkuAmerica> danktamagachi: Are you using Kubuntu?
[23:33] <invisime> kostkon: ok, I've put /usr/bin/start-pulseaudio-x11 in an .xinitrc. I think that'll start it up right before xbmc starts.
[23:33] <SonikkuAmerica> ecips: Ask that in #ubuntu+1, not here.
[23:33] <histo> !raring | ecips
[23:33] <redheat> no just the part where I get to use the Hash for my HDD how do I located it..you said I should type help..you mean here in xchat terminal in my CL terminal?
[23:33] <Skynetik> Скайнет — вымышленный случай спонтанного перехода Слабого искусственного интеллекта в сильный с обретением свободы воли. Скайнет также наделён креативными способностями и создаёт машину времени, новый тип искусс
[23:33] <Skynetik> твенного интеллекта T-1000 и киборгов T-700 и T-800. По всей видимости, Скайнет сможет пройти основательный тест Тьюринга[1].
[23:33] <Skynetik> В эпизоде фильма «Терминатор: Да придёт спаситель», в момент обмена информацией и системной синхронизации между Маркусом и Скайнет одна из газетных статей в базе данных Скайнет указывает на возможную более тесную
[23:33] <Skynetik> связь между доктором Сереной Коган и Скайнет. Заголовок статьи говорит о кончине Серены от ракового заболевания и передаче своего мозга проекту Скайнет. Лицо Серены, используемое Скайнет, отличается от лица Серены,
[23:33] <kostkon> invisime, nice
[23:33] <FloodBot1> Skynetik: Please don't flood; use http://paste.ubuntu.com to paste; don't use Enter as punctuation.
[23:34] <SonikkuAmerica> It's a Skynet!
[23:34] <histo> lol
[23:34] <redheat> wait I will call the Governator...
[23:34]  * histo Where's john conner
[23:34] <redheat> lol..
[23:34] <redheat> good histo..
[23:34] <Korejora> @histo:  03:00.0 Network controller: Ralink corp. Device 5392
[23:34] <redheat> good one
[23:35] <redheat> wow..they still use Ralink in Skynet...Dawm...
[23:35] <ecips> #ubuntu+1 is as dead as a doornail
[23:35] <invisime> here's a translation of what it said in case anyone's curious: http://pastebin.com/NkgUBS6g
[23:35] <invisime> kostkon: damn. that didn't work.
[23:36] <redheat> HELP
[23:36] <kostkon> invisime, :/
[23:36] <SonikkuAmerica> redheat: Finding the hash:
[23:36] <SonikkuAmerica> redheat: Open Nautilus (the file manager) for me.
[23:36] <invisime> nor does just calling start-pulseaudio-x11 work from ssh while xbmc is running.
[23:36] <redheat> ok
[23:36] <redheat> opened
[23:37] <SonikkuAmerica> redheat: Now, on the left should be a list of devices, notated "XXX GB Filesystem"
[23:37] <redheat>  SonikkuAmerica opened
[23:37] <histo> Korejora: Are you sure that adapter doesn't work with linux?
[23:37] <redheat> yeah, the internal harddrive is labelled 320 GB volume
[23:37] <danktamagachi> SonikkuAmerica: not using Kubuntu now but it is installed... it creates a unmber of warnings when various apps are opened within GNOME, so I deleted it. Just wondering what exactly, it does.
[23:37] <redheat> yeah, the internal harddrive is labelled 320 GB volume SonikkuAmerica
[23:38] <Korejora> @histo: I don't know. I tried installing a Linux driver (for a different device) and I got it to work temporarily, but then it started freezing whenever it would connect to a network, so I uninstalled it.
[23:38] <SonikkuAmerica> redheat: Open it.
[23:38] <ecips> hmmm, so #ubuntu+1 is completely dead - where else can I go for help??
[23:38] <Korejora> @histo: There doesn't seem to be a Linux driver for this specific device.
[23:38] <SonikkuAmerica> ecips: I just answered you in there.
[23:38] <redheat> SonikkuAmerica, I did  a right click on it, properties and I got this name 6B402F546AADF14F
[23:38] <redheat> could that be it?
[23:39] <SonikkuAmerica> redheat: That is the $HASH.
[23:40] <histo> Korejora: it should be the 5390 series. I beleive if it dosn't work out of the box. It should pull the driver from additional drivers dialog.  Let me do some digging.
[23:41] <histo> Korejora: What version of ubuntu are you running
[23:41] <Korejora> @histo: 12.10
[23:42] <redheat> SonikkuAmerica, it gave me "cannot stat w7 : no such command or directory..
[23:42] <redheat> what went wrong that how I wrote it: cp -r w7/* /media/$HASH
[23:43] <redheat> what went wrong that how I wrote it: cp -r w7/* /media/6B402F546AADF14F
[23:43] <redheat> sorry..
[23:43] <histo> Korejora: Did you check additional drivers?
[23:44] <redheat> HELP
[23:44] <emdik> hello
[23:45] <SonikkuAmerica> redheat: No prob... let me check...
[23:45] <Korejora> @histo: What do you mean by additional drivers? Nothing shows up when I search that.
[23:45] <redheat> take your time..
[23:45] <histo> jokey-gtk
[23:45] <histo> Korejora: ^^^
[23:46] <elky> redheat, when you do "ls" does "w7" show up?
[23:46] <redheat> ok yes elky it does
[23:47] <redheat> thanks for joining taking the load off SonikkuAmerica shoulders, I've been bugging him with my question all day long..:)
[23:47] <Korejora> @histo: jockey-gtk not installed. jockey-kde worked, for some reason, but it only has drivers for my video card.
[23:47] <elky> redheat, have you moved directory since you tried the command?
[23:47] <redheat> nope...
[23:47] <histo> Korejora: http://www.mediatek.com/_en/07_downloads/01-1_windowsDetail.php?sn=5001  Is the website with drivers for your card
[23:47] <redheat> it's there since it was created elky
[23:47] <histo> Korejora: I thought that chipset worked out of the box but aparently not
[23:49] <redheat> can I ask a question, how about if I moved using the mouse, or do you want it in privliged or heightened status, as in through sudo or root
[23:49] <emdik> it seems that my network problems are finally solved and I want to thank the people here who helped me
[23:49] <SonikkuAmerica> !ask | redheat
[23:50] <stududefmf> How would I connect to a different server? /connect ?
[23:50] <redheat> ok..sorry about that..
[23:50] <Korejora> @histo: I tried downloading that before, but it says "archive type not supported".
[23:50] <redheat> I think I'll stick with ! patience...
[23:52] <darkhelmet46> stududefmf, /server
[23:52] <redheat> SonikkuAmerica, I already have root account enabled, I can logoff, and logon again, put the w7 directory in the core of that internal harddrive, no need to use CL if it s causing that much trouble..how about that..
[23:52] <iceroot> i have 270MByte/s on a Raid10 Array and 42MByte/s on a LUKS Partition on this array. is there such a big difference in the hdd-performance when using encryption? or is my configuration bad?
[23:53] <phong_> happy new year everyone
[23:53] <Snowie> anyone have advice on Plex under Ubuntu? I have had it installed previously, but now for some reason it installs as root user without access to my media. What's the best way forward. Dont really want to have to mess with this http://askubuntu.com/questions/150909/plex-wont-enter-my-home-directory-or-other-partitions
[23:54] <SonikkuAmerica> redheat: There's a problem with that.
[23:54] <redheat> what?
[23:54] <SonikkuAmerica> redheat: You need a Windows MBR (master boot record) in order to boot from it.
[23:55] <SonikkuAmerica> Everyone, is GRUB an acceptable alternative to a Windows MBR if Windows is dumped from an ISO to an HDD for the purpose of installing?
[23:55] <ikonia> SonikkuAmerica: what???
[23:56] <redheat> ikonia, you heard the man ikonia...answer..or I'll kill you..lol
[23:56] <redheat> lol
[23:56] <SonikkuAmerica> redheat: Threats are not allowed in *buntu channels.
[23:56] <SonikkuAmerica> redheat: Even if you are joking.
[23:56] <ikonia> SonikkuAmerica: can you try to rephrase the question please ?
[23:56] <phunyguy> how do I add hard-mounted cifs shares to the shortcuts area of nautilus?  I have shares mounted with autofs that don't show up there....
[23:56] <redheat> roger that..I'm so sorry, ikonia, terribly sorry
[23:57] <ikonia> redheat: don't worry
[23:57] <ssorg> I don't have a major (AMD/NVIDIA) video card in my system, how would I figure out what driver I need, and how could I update it?
[23:57] <SonikkuAmerica> ikonia: redheat is trying to create a bootable external HDD for Windows 7 from Ubuntu. The instructions I'm using tell me he would need to compile ms-sys from source to create a Windows MBR so that the install media would boot. Can he use GRUB2 instead?
[23:58] <k1l> ssorg: so its a intel video card? there are drivers in the kernel, they dont need  to be updated.
[23:58] <ikonia> SonikkuAmerica: there are windows tools to create bootable media
[23:59] <ikonia> SonikkuAmerica: from ubuntu - you could use grub.....but I'd always suggest using the official tools if they are available
[23:59] <ikonia> such as the windows tools
[23:59] <roothorick> instead of writing it all out again I'll just link: http://askubuntu.com/questions/257528/xorg-segfault-then-gnome-goes-to-china


[07:13] <lordievader> Good morning
[10:05] <ginggs> rafaeldtinoco: hi, do you plan to merge cacti?
[10:38] <rafaeldtinoco> ginggs: hum, i wasnt planning to (myself) but I saw we are way behind now
[10:39] <rafaeldtinoco> ginggs: ill give it a try today
[10:47] <ginggs> rafaeldtinoco: thanks!
[10:53] <ginggs> rafaeldtinoco: i believe my change there can be dropped and php-gettext can be removed.  i wasn't sure about your changes
[10:53] <rafaeldtinoco> ginggs: just realized now, were you going for it ?
[10:53] <rafaeldtinoco> i said i was going to do it and never asked #)
[10:56] <ginggs> rafaeldtinoco: i looked, and would have sync'd if it were possible, but i think your changes are still required
[10:56] <rafaeldtinoco> i have upstreamed them back then
[10:56] <rafaeldtinoco> let me echeck
[10:58] <rafaeldtinoco> ah ok just remembered
[10:58] <rafaeldtinoco> debian was still using mysql-server-5
[10:58] <rafaeldtinoco> thats why some of these changes havent been merged there
[10:58] <rafaeldtinoco> let me check now
[11:00] <rafaeldtinoco> rbasak: any plans on mysql-server-8 for sid before our freeze ?
[11:00] <rafaeldtinoco> orelse I'll merge cacti now and keep my delta
[11:00] <rafaeldtinoco> and later I'll suggest it to cacti in debian
[11:47] <rbasak> rafaeldtinoco: no - Skuggen was looking into it, but currently it FTBFS on sid
[11:54] <rafaeldtinoco> ah.. i "wonder" why
[11:54] <rafaeldtinoco> thanks!
[13:39] <rafaeldtinoco> ginggs: alright, finished the merge
[13:40] <rafaeldtinoco> will propose it and submit it to a ppa
[13:40] <rafaeldtinoco> willing to test ?
[13:41] <rafaeldtinoco> (ill run autopkgtest and give it a try anyway if you cant test it)
[13:43] <ginggs> rafaeldtinoco: sure, i'll give it a spin, but only tomorrow
[13:43] <rafaeldtinoco> sounds good
[13:48] <rafaeldtinoco> https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/TDRQgsLf/upgrade.png
[13:48] <rafaeldtinoco> upgrade seems to have worked
[13:48] <rafaeldtinoco> lets try vanilla install now
[14:01] <xibalba> is that cacti ?
[14:01] <xibalba> i didn't think i was still actively developed
[15:57] <KungFoo> I just enabled media wiki - a2enmod mediawiki
[15:58] <KungFoo> but I want it on the ssl side of my apache server how to?
[15:58] <KungFoo> this is for a personal server, I'm not an apache guru
[16:02] <gp> I am trying to get a simple hello world microk8s working without much luck on ubuntu bionic.  I cannot get the registry to respond via curl.  What am I doing wrong here? https://dpaste.org/JHZ2
[16:03] <gp> I am having to save my built image from docker and then import with microk8s.ctr image import
[16:04] <weedmic> fyi there is also a #docker - it doesn't sound like what u describe is ubuntu related
[16:04] <gp> weedmic: It is microk8s. Last time I asked for help they pointed me here
[16:05] <gp> Trying to use this https://ubuntu.com/tutorials/install-a-local-kubernetes-with-microk8s#1-overview
[16:06] <sdeziel> KungFoo: I would have expected a "a2ensite" instead of "a2enmod" but anyway, if you want to enable SSL/TLS: "sudo a2enmod ssl && sudo service apache2 restart" should do it
[16:11] <KungFoo> thanks, that worked
[16:11] <KungFoo> I guess I wasn't expecting that
[16:11] <KungFoo> so the configuration that you enabled are available on both 80 and 443?
[16:11] <KungFoo> how can you make media wiki *only* ssl
[16:11] <gp> Anyone have a sharable Vagrantfile that provisions a working microk8s environment by chance?
[16:12] <sdeziel> KungFoo: to answer that I'd need to see the mediawiki sites-enabled or conf-enabled file (pastebin)
[16:20] <weedmic> np, I just thought they might know more.
[16:25] <gp> Is there a more appropriate channel for microk8s on Ubuntu?
[16:26] <gp> weedmic: thanks btw. I will check with the docker channel too
[16:42] <genii> gp: You might want to try the #kubernetes channel
[19:06] <DeeJayTwo> Hi
[19:07] <DeeJayTwo> I have a server on 18.04.3 which take a lot of time spinning and detecting all drives. It often says it doesn't find vg-ubuntu and drops to initramfs...
[19:07] <DeeJayTwo> Is there a way to set a higher wait time ?
[19:19] <DeeJayTwo> I'm waiting a bit and I see the drives detected in the console.. then from initramsfs, I just type exit and it boots...
[19:32] <sdeziel> DeeJayTwo: not sure but I'd try adding "rootdelay=X" to your boot args
[20:22] <DeeJayTwo> sdeziel: thank you!
[22:50] <jayjo> I have a cluster of ubuntu servers, and I'm looking to maintain the trust infrastructure for both a TLS PKI and an SSH CA. I have a PKCS11 device to store the keys on. Can the same root key sign both a TLS x.509 PKI intermediate cert and also use ssh-keygen to generate CA certs? Can there be any trust integration? I don't mind maintaining two separate intermediate certs, but are they under a single
[22:50] <jayjo> root? Or do I need two entirely different structures?
[22:52] <sdeziel> jayjo: SSH CA are not related to x509
[22:53] <sdeziel> so AFAIK, it's not possible to use the TLS PKI for it
[22:53] <jayjo> what is the difference? Seems like I can choose my algo, so both private keys can be rsa 2048. Is it just different metadata, encoding, and wrapper for each one? But the actual key -could- be the same?
[22:54] <jayjo> I have a SmartCardHSM that can store more than one and intermediates, so it's OK if I have to need to have two independent trust "trees". I would just very much rather have one with two subsidiaries
[22:56] <jayjo> For TLS, PKI is necessary. I'm trying to allow access to servers to a small group of administrators using smart cards. Whether just 2-factor (OTP) or actually storing the key on the smart card and using a CA to establish trust is what I'm looking for
[22:56] <sdeziel> jayjo: I could explain the details but the OpenSSH folks specifically didn't want to touch X.509 with a ten foot pole so they came up with their own (much simpler apparently) solution
[22:57] <sdeziel> s/could explain/could not explain/
[23:10] <jayjo> roughly, is the mechanism the same? Do end users submit to me CSRs so my root can sign their keys?
[23:10] <jayjo> and I sign them with ssh-keygen ?


[09:09] <knome> is the release time set, or do we again have to wait until a randomly timed announcement? :)
[09:09] <cjwatson> knome: we don't set release times
[09:10] <knome> ok
[09:10] <knome> :)
[09:10] <cjwatson> there are too many variables late in the process to make it sensible to commit to a time at higher granularity than a day
[09:10] <knome> mm-hmm
[09:11] <cjwatson> and we're not going to foster nonsense journalist-has-nothing-better-to-write-about stories like "Ubuntu 12.04 LTS is one and a half hours late" either
[09:11] <knome> yeah
[09:11] <cjwatson> pitti: should we announce -proposed being open all the time now, do you think?
[09:12] <pitti> cjwatson: it certainly sounds like a good time for it
[09:12] <pitti> while we don't have an ideal workflow yet, we at least have enough tools to not cause too much pain
[09:12] <seb128> cjwatson, pitti: is it open as a staging or for stacking SRUs?
[09:12] <pitti> staging for now, I'd say
[09:13] <pitti> well, we can decide to leave any of the upload as an actual SRU, of course
[09:13] <pitti> uploads
[09:13] <pitti> but still a bit early for that IMHO
[09:13] <seb128> right
[09:13] <pitti> cjwatson: do you want to send the announcement, or want me to?
[09:14] <cjwatson> mm, my main concern is that if everyone starts using it for everything than our lack of tools for analysing whether a single source can be promoted will screw us horribly
[09:14] <cjwatson> pitti: I'd like to, since I wrote the LP patch :)
[09:14] <pitti> I wouldn't encourage using it for all uploads, at least not at this point
[09:15] <pitti> at this point, stuff like eglibc, the unity stack, LibO, and glib
[09:15] <pitti> qt 4.8.1 is a good candidate, too
[09:15] <cjwatson> At least two of those are also great examples of why it's problematic.
[09:16] <pitti> in a perfect setup, we'd have an arbitrary number of -proposed like pockets, each one for stacking one atomic set of updates
[09:16] <pitti> we could call them "bubbles"
[09:16] <cjwatson> FSVO perfect ... ;-)
[09:16] <pitti> i. e. one bubble for unity, one bubble for a new qt, etc.
[09:17] <pitti> they'd automatically migrate once everything is built and installable, and would avoid that problem with unintended building against newer libraries
[09:17] <pitti> but that's very far off still
[09:17] <cjwatson> I also think that's overengineering TBH
[09:17] <cjwatson> and would be impractically confusing to actually use
[09:17] <seb128> pitti, well, you can call those ppas
[09:18] <seb128> just need to be non virtual ones
[09:18] <cjwatson> PPAs would be workable if it weren't for the rule about non-virtual PPAs being confined to Canonical employees only
[09:18] <pitti> seb128: whatever the implementation is, just concept-wise
[09:18] <cjwatson> so in practice, we can't use them
[09:18] <pitti> but they are quite clumsy to use, too
[09:18] <infinity> pitti: There's no valid reason to send eglibc to -proposed, unless you think people will test it.
[09:18] <cjwatson> or we at least can't recommend that the whole project uses them
[09:18] <infinity> pitti: Staging in proposed is great to make sure arch skew doesn't break the world, but eglibc has no such issues.
[09:19] <pitti> infinity: true that; scratch that one from the list then
[09:20] <infinity> And, to be fair, arch skew issues are probably just one apt patch and one sbuild patch away from being mostly a non-issue.
[09:20] <infinity> Given that we already have the archive holding onto old arch:all binaries.
[09:20] <infinity> They just need to actually sanely get used in all cases.
[09:20] <pitti> infinity: sbuild for proper depwaiting instead of failing, you mean?
[09:20] <infinity> pitti: Yeah.
[09:21] <infinity> pitti: I have the code for sbuild lying around, just needs cleanup after 5 years of dust.
[09:21] <pitti> but an apt patch isn't sufficient there
[09:21] <pitti> it needs to be in Launchpad
[09:21] <infinity> pitti: And the apt patch is for end users actually having installable systems during a skew.
[09:21] <pitti> apt will just help upgrades
[09:21] <pitti> but not installs / ISO builds
[09:21] <cjwatson> I'd argue those are less of an issue anyway.
[09:21] <infinity> pitti: apt would fix ISO builds too.  Well, not alternates.
[09:21] <pitti> i. e. if glib FTBFS on i386 and succeeds on amd64, or vice versa, you immediately render thousands of packages uninstallable
[09:22] <pitti> actually, glib is fine
[09:22] <pitti> say, gtk
[09:22] <infinity> pitti: Yeah, apt dealing properly with that is fixable.
[09:22] <cjwatson> ISO build breakages don't cause hundreds of users to get confused and accidentally remove unity or something.
[09:22] <pitti> yes, but they are still annoying
[09:22] <pitti> same for LibO
[09:22] <cjwatson> Sure; but they can also often be dealt with by timing.
[09:22] <pitti> as the arm vs. x86 build times are so different
[09:23] <cjwatson> It's perfectly OK for us to fix a small number of things at a time. :-)
[09:23] <infinity> Anyhow.  It's all fixable, now that LP published arch:all packages that are still referenced.  (It's not perfect, in that it doesn't take the "i386 is the only thing that failed" case into account, but that's thankfully rare)
[09:24] <infinity> Maybe I'll spend some +1 cycles on at least fixing the sbuild dep-wait code.
[09:24] <infinity> But looking into apt doing some semblance of "the right thing" for the above would be nice too.
[09:24] <cjwatson> Right, as opposed to "I WANT THE NEWEST DAMNIT"
[09:24] <infinity> Perhaps as a switch that we can intentionally turn off on buildds, if we prefer skew causing dep-waits instead of installing old packages.
[09:24] <mvo> what would apt have to do? if there is a new :all with a strict arch spefific dependency that can not be satisfied, just ignore that package for now - would that be good enough?
[09:25]  * mvo hasn't really thought much about the problem yet
[09:25] <infinity> mvo: Basically, yeah.
[09:26] <infinity> mvo: Or, in the more general sense, if you have more than one version of an arch:all package, try to satisfy upgrades with the highest, and if that causes removals/failures, try downgrading and resolving again.
[09:26] <infinity> mvo: Your path might be shorter, though.
[09:27] <mvo> thanks
[09:27] <infinity> mvo: Oh and yeah, your path implies just ignoring entirely, when what we really need is "pick the right version".
[09:28] <infinity> mvo: So, if your "ignore" was changed instead to "try the next one down", etc.
[09:28] <infinity> (Think when someone uploads the same all/any split source package 5 times over 3 days, and it's always in skew for a week, we still want people to get the "latest", whatever that is on their arch)
[09:31] <cjwatson> pitti: http://paste.ubuntu.com/911251/ ?
[09:31] <cjwatson> (and others)
[09:31] <mvo> infinity: right
[09:31] <cjwatson> oh, I'm missing footnotes, those are to be pending-sru and precise-proposed_probs
[09:32] <infinity> I was just about to ask.
[09:33] <pitti> cjwatson: I suggest giving some example packages where this is encouraged, like the unity stack or LibO
[09:33] <infinity> I'm wary of declating the any/all thing as The Use Case for Proposed, cause if I fix dep-waits in sbuild, it could take years to untrain that behaviour.   I dunno.
[09:35] <infinity> I kinda liked the desktop team's "stage GNOME 3.4 in proposed" use case.
[09:35] <Laney> Probably mention how to get stuff migrated
[09:35] <infinity> Though that could have gotten painful in a hurry with other people also uploading.
[09:35] <cjwatson> That was specifically a freeze thing
[09:35] <infinity> With no britney to save us.
[09:35] <cjwatson> Laney: if developers have to ask we're doing it wrong
[09:36] <infinity> Laney: Migration will Just Happen when AAs scan pending.
[09:36] <Laney> Well, mention that.
[09:36] <infinity> Though, I'm still scared of this whole thing without a britney-alike to save us.
[09:36] <Laney> I don't think that's obvious
[09:36] <cjwatson> I will do
[09:36] <cjwatson> infinity: Ye
[09:36] <cjwatson> s
[09:37] <infinity> Of course, if there are never build failures in proposed, and we migrate 100% of the packages, we're fine. :P
[09:37] <cjwatson> I'm hoping to have a look at that over the next few weeks, but I have some other things to fix first
[09:37] <infinity> Maybe the general announcement is premature, then?
[09:37] <cjwatson> I think we can probably cope with the volume from here to release
[09:37] <infinity> Let people "in the know" test the waters, wait for general announcement until we're sure we can sanely migrate massive messes?
[09:37] <cjwatson> GNOME 3.4 - that was a freeze special case though
[09:38] <infinity> Sure, GNOME was freeze special, my concern is people starting to do large dep chains like that, though.
[09:38] <infinity> And all it takes is one 3rd-party dep in proposed to make that a nightmare.
[09:38] <cjwatson> infinity: we could, but I'm a bit worried that not saying anything will result in people making things up
[09:38] <pitti> infinity: it worked quite well for unity, too
[09:38] <pitti> especially during the freeze
[09:39] <cjwatson> which is worse than "this is an experimental process, please come and talk to us if you want to do anything weird"
[09:39] <pitti> uploading a new unity stack during the freeze directly to precise would have been a big No-go
[09:39] <infinity> cjwatson: True.  Okay, maybe it just needs more blink tags. :)
[09:45]  * cjwatson rearranges, and rewords to avoid mention of "pocket" jargon as well
[09:46] <cjwatson> How about http://paste.ubuntu.com/911266/ ?
[09:49] <infinity> cjwatson: +1
[09:49] <infinity> A++, would read again.
[09:51] <infinity> Now, I should get some sleep so I don't miss my flight.
[09:51] <infinity> pitti: If I don't manage to find time in the morning, I'll catch up with you tonight (ie: your tomorrow morning) instead.
[10:01] <pitti> cjwatson: sounds great to me, thanks!
[10:01] <cjwatson> excellent, sent
[10:06] <Laney> nice
[10:06] <Laney> perhaps we should teach ben about this
[12:19] <scott-work> i just subscribed ubuntu-release for bug #971159
[12:19] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 971159 in ubiquity "[UIFe] new wallpaper for ubiquity on ubuntu studio" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/971159
[12:19] <scott-work> would it be possible to get an exception on it, por favor?
[12:20] <scott-work> since this is the background image for the isntallation i do not think translations or documentation needs to be addressed
[12:36] <didrocks> cjwatson: thanks for the email. FYI. I had commitment from the compiz guys to not have any more ABI break on compiz (so a huge part of the dep chain list off). However, Nux still have an ABI break, so I'll probably want to use -proposed for 5.10 (next week) for nux/unity/unity-2d
[12:36] <cjwatson> right, just an example :)
[12:38] <didrocks> cjwatson: well, I guess it's the one making most of the pain, especially when compiz is involved as well (last time, the time that everything build in time took 7 hours of instability, so clearly worth -proposed ;))
[12:38] <didrocks> even if I always pushed when having everything ready to not block on me
[13:26] <doko> cjwatson, currently writing an email to u-d-a, but maybe you want to point it out to the +1 team: http://people.ubuntuwire.org/~wgrant/rebuild-ftbfs-test/test-rebuild-20120328-precise.html
[13:33] <cjwatson> doko: you can point it out directly, don't need to go through me :)
[13:33] <cjwatson> shudder, that's a lot of failures in main
[13:33] <doko> right ...
[13:42] <cjwatson> I wonder how much of this is http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=659482
[13:42] <ubot2> Debian bug 659482 in automake "aclocal fails if /usr/share/aclocal does not exist" [Serious,Open]
[13:44] <cjwatson> possibly I was just unlucky that that was the first one I hit, but I'll go and fix that anyway
[13:46] <doko> cjwatson, let me know, then I'll give back the builds to clear the list
[13:50]  * cjwatson does a quick screenscrape to find out
[13:54] <cjwatson> PASS: aclocal9.test
[13:54] <cjwatson> PASS: acloca10.test
[13:54]  * cjwatson spots an alignment obsessive
[14:18] <cjwatson> doko: ok, the only victim of that automake change I could find was make-dfsg
[14:18] <cjwatson> I'll upload automake1.11 once the local test-build has finished
[14:22] <seb128> cjwatson, doko: the gnome-keyring build failure might go away on a retry, there is an issue with the testsuite, it does hang every n builds, the test rebuild seems to have ran into that bug, it did timeout on a test
[14:45] <skaet> scott-work,  UIFe is approved, but please send note to the docs & translators to let the know its coming down.   They shouldn't be affected, but letting them know is appropriate.
[14:49] <skaet> http://people.ubuntuwire.org/~wgrant/rebuild-ftbfs-test/test-rebuild-20120328-precise.html
[14:55] <stgraber> skaet, scott-work: I just pushed that change in ubiquity (revision 5349) so it'll be there in the next release.
[14:55] <skaet> thanks stgraber
[14:58] <scott-work> thank you both skaet and stgraber  :)
[15:03] <tsdgeos> hi, i have just created a UIFe for Unity-2d at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity-2d/+bug/971603
[15:03] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 971603 in unity-2d "[unity-2d] UI Freeze exception for HUD redesign to Unity2d" [Undecided,New]
[15:03] <tsdgeos> hope did it right, it's my very first time :-)
[15:04] <doko> seb128, given back
[15:10] <seb128> doko, thanks
[15:20] <jbicha> looks like we'll get a "new" 12.04 default wallpaper after all :) bug 968399
[15:20] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 968399 in ubuntu-wallpapers "Incremental tweaks to default wallpaper for Ubuntu 12.04 LTS" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/968399
[15:32] <skaet> tsdgeos, can this land by April 5th?
[15:33] <skaet> (in Ubuntu archive as part of next drop)
[15:33] <tsdgeos> skaet: this can land now if you want
[15:33] <tsdgeos> ok
[15:33] <tsdgeos> let me rephrase
[15:33] <tsdgeos> the code is ready, design approves, and there is a new release plannned for friday i think, so yes it'll be there on the 5th
[15:34] <tsdgeos> just need to change the settings in the MR and it'll be all done
[15:34] <skaet> tsdgeos,  friday is the 6th.... hmm...
[15:35] <tsdgeos> maybe i'm wrong about the friday thing
[15:35] <skaet> didrocks,  when is the next version of unity-2d planned to be included?
[15:36] <tsdgeos> skaet: he's not here, is he?
[15:36] <skaet> tsdgeos,  you're right,  hadn't noticed that quit.  :/
[15:37] <skaet> tsdgeos,  anyhow,  its approved as long as we can get it with next drop.  which sounds likely.
[15:37] <tsdgeos> skaet: so what's the procedure, i confirm with didrocks, come back and you comment in the bug?
[15:37] <skaet> tsdgeos, I'll work the timings, etc. with didrocks.
[15:38] <tsdgeos> skaet: great :-)
[15:38] <skaet> just get it uploaded now.
[15:38] <skaet> :)
[16:24] <micahg> pitti: could you please copy 18.0.1025.142~r129054 from ubuntu-security-proposed to lucid and maverick proposed?
[18:46] <phillw> skaet: ping
[18:46] <skaet> hiya phillw,  ?
[18:47] <phillw> hi skaet, kanilot from lubuntu will eb covering for me at the QA meetings for lubuntu, is it in order for him to join this channel?
[18:47] <phillw> s/eb/be
[18:48] <skaet> phillw,  definitely,  he's most welcome.
[18:48] <skaet> he should also joing the #ubuntu-testing too.  :)
[18:49] <phillw> thanks, it's always more polite. Getting him on there is easy. But I'm still a n00b on this channel, so prefer to check :)
[18:49] <skaet> thanks for letting me know.   I'll look for kamilot now too, if I can't spot you and have a question.
[18:49] <skaet> :)
[18:57] <phillw> hi kanliot, welcome to -release. Do not worry if you do not understand some of the things they chat about - I don't :) They are a nice collection of people who push all the Daily and milestone releases out, including that mammoth session on Ubiquity bug solving prior to beta 2
[18:59] <kanliot> hi!
[19:19] <skaet> hi kanliot and welcome.  :)
[19:20] <kanliot> ty skaet
[19:26]  * skaet goes to finish off the moving of the beta2 milestoned bugs and finds them dealt with.
[19:29] <stgraber> skaet: yeah pitti ran a script :)
[19:29] <skaet> thanks stgraber, pitti. :)
[19:29] <stgraber> skaet: move-milestoned-bugs.py in ~ubuntu-archive/ubuntu-archive-tools/trunk/
[21:15] <phillw> hi, is their a brain box around who could clear up a bit of confusion? Lubuntu and xubuntu have gone back to non-pae kernels, does this mean 12.04 will run on the likes of Pentium 3's or are they still only able to use 10.04 kernel release? Thanks
[21:16] <cjwatson> 12.04 will run on older CPUs provided that it's installed with Lubuntu or Xubuntu, or that the -generic kernel is otherwise installed / kept installed by hand somehow (e.g. on upgrades)
[21:16] <cjwatson> I don't happen to remember the full CPU list off the top of my head, but Pentium 3 sounds comfortably within range for -generic
[22:18] <ScottK> (that was me - it's not April 1 anymore)


[02:49] <Nikratio> I accidentally uploaded a *wrong* .orig.tar.bz2 file to my PPA, and the server refuses attempts to upload a new, correct file. Is there anything I can do (short of faking a newer upstream version)?
[02:50] <maxb> No, suffixing the upstream version is the right thing to do
[02:50] <Nikratio> I already requested deletion of the corrupt version, I'm not sure if it's still not working because the deletion is still pending or because even deletion doesn't help
[02:55] <Nikratio> oh my. thx.
[09:01] <mrevell> Hallo
[10:22] <hrw> hi
[10:22] <jelmer> hi hrw
[10:23] <hrw> are there any plans to add weekly recipe builds?
[10:23] <hrw> now it can be daily or 'on request'
[10:23] <jelmer> hrw: not that I'm aware of - what's the issue with daily builds?
[10:23] <hrw> when changes are less common then daily then it is waste of cpu time
[10:24] <jelmer> hrw: it only rebuilds daily if there actually were changes
[10:24] <hrw> o..
[10:24] <hrw> so there was no question ;)
[10:24] <jelmer> :)
[10:24] <jelmer> hrw: I take it your recipes are finally working then?
[10:25] <hrw> jelmer: yes, they do
[10:25] <jelmer> great
[10:25] <hrw> need to fix packaging a bit so armel/armhf/powerpc will not be run
[10:33] <hrw> m4 is a language which I will have to learn one day
[10:37] <jelmer> hrw: I'm sorry to hear that.
[10:39] <hrw> ;))
[10:40] <hrw> jelmer: gcc has debian/control.m4 which I hack for over year and would like to understand why my change is ok
[10:52] <hrw> jelmer: but change need to happen in any of branches used in recipe - right?
[10:53] <jelmer> hrw: yeah, doesn't matter which one
[11:02] <hrw> cool
[12:06] <carandraug> hi! Is it possible to change the owner of a team? If so, how?
[12:12] <allenap> carandraug: Yes, it is, though it's a bit hidden. First, you need to be a team admin (or maybe even the current owner...),
[12:12] <allenap> then go to the team page and click "Change details" on the right,
[12:12] <allenap> scroll to the bottom of the change details page and click "Change owner".
[12:18] <hrw> btw - did powerpc builders went off?
[12:19] <hrw> I see that my https://code.launchpad.net/~linaro-pkg/+recipe/gcc-linaro-native-daily builds are no longer powerpc
[12:19] <hrw> not that I need them - just noticed. And I had entry on todo list to disable powerpc builds
[12:25] <wgrant> hrw: Your PPA is no longer marked as de-virtualized.
[12:25] <wgrant> It's using the fake virt armel builders instead.
[12:26] <hrw> ok
[12:26] <hrw> btw - what is 'fake virt armel builder'?
[12:27] <wgrant> If you look at https://launchpad.net/builders, you'll see some PPA armel builders.
[12:27] <wgrant> They're not virtualized like the i386/amd64 builders, because ARM virt still sort of sucks.
[12:27] <wgrant> But they pretend to be virtualized, so certain PPAs (like yours) are allowed to build on them.
[12:28] <hrw> arm virt does not exist more or less even
[12:28] <wgrant> Well, all we have is QEMU, which is roughly the definition of "sucks".
[12:29] <hrw> ok, so instead of using arm hardware some builders are now qemu-arm instances?
[12:29] <wgrant> No.
[12:29] <wgrant> There are real ARM machines pretending to be virtualized, so certain PPAs can build on them.
[12:29] <wgrant> There are no similar ppc machines.
[12:30] <wgrant> Which is why your PPA no longer builds on ppc.
[12:30] <hrw> ok
[12:31] <carandraug> allenap, I'm an admin, but I don't see that button. All I see is Change branding, home page, preferred languages and set contact address
[12:33] <wgrant> carandraug: Only the owner can change the owner.
[12:33] <allenap> carandraug: I think the current owner will need to do it. Can you contact him/her?
[12:35] <carandraug> allenap, yes I can. takes a while to get a reply from him, but hopefully I'll manage to get one again
[12:36] <carandraug> wgrant, allenap thank you both. I'll try to contact the owner to change the ownership to me
[12:37] <allenap> carandraug: If you are unable to get a response from the owner, we might be able to help if you request the change via https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+addquestion, explaining the situation.
[12:39] <carandraug> allenap, it took us almost 2 months to get a first answer from him. He did so yesterday and we exchanged 3 messages by the ubuntu forums and gave me administration privileges immediately. But I'd rather get the ownership from him. If I don't hear from im in 1 wekk I'll do that, thank you
[13:28] <soren> Is the librarian having problems?
[13:28] <soren> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+archive/primary/+files/python-eventlet_0.9.16-1ubuntu1.dsc gives me a 503.
[13:29] <soren> (and that's not the only file doing that)
[13:29] <soren> allenap: ^
[13:30] <soren> Perhaps related: I have a bunch of builds that are stuck waiting for publication: https://launchpad.net/~nebula/+archive/ppa/+packages
[13:41] <om26er_> attachments in bugs are not happening, "503 Service Unavailable" something bad happened?
[13:42] <nigelb> om26er_: see topic
[13:42] <nigelb> launchpad librarian issues.
[13:43] <om26er_> aah
[13:52] <allenap> soren: I'll take a look.
[13:52] <allenap> soren: The librarian issue is being looked into the the GSAs.
[14:02] <soren> allenap: cool
[14:03] <allenap> soren: So far the news is that it's a hardware issue :-/
[14:05] <moreati> I'm working on a remote linked tickets plugin for Trac and reviewing the way Launchpad does it. Is https://help.launchpad.net/Bugs/PluginAPISpec reasonably up to date?
[14:08] <moreati> The trac plugin is https://dev.launchpad.net/UserInterfaceWording should anyone be interested
[14:08] <moreati> wrong tab, sorry  http://trac-hacks.org/wiki/RemoteTicketPlugin
[14:53] <andrejz> hello! i have a quick question. If a user uploads translation of a package to laucnhpad does it get counted towards his karma or not?
[14:54] <andrejz> one of our members is complaining he is not getting any karma for translation offline and uploading to LP
[14:54] <andrejz> and i would like to know if this is a bug or expected behaviour
[14:56] <jtv> andrejz: I believe there's some karma, yes, but it gets pretty complicated.
[14:56] <mrevell> andrejz, Hey there. I'm interested to know how important karma is to translators.
[14:57] <andrejz> @mrevell: depends from person to person. to some is an indicator how much they have been working, some don't care but some consider it very improtant and are trying to achieve certain value of karma or certain spot within the team
[14:58] <mrevell> andrejz, Thanks.
[14:58] <andrejz> then those can feel a bit upset if they believe not enough karma has been assigned to them as a reward for their work
[14:59] <andrejz> i have another question. is it possible to somehow querry on which dates a particular user has been translating?
[14:59] <mrevell> andrejz, Do they know that karma degrades over time and that karma is weighted differently depending on where in Launchpad you do things? I'm asking because karma is calculated in  a way that people might consider odd, if they're hoping to achieve a particular score.
[15:00] <andrejz> mrevell, yes i explain it to them
[15:00] <andrejz> for this particular user
[15:00] <andrejz> he uploaded a couple of packages which he translated in KDE (and then also uploaded to LP)
[15:01] <jtv> andrejz: we do have some information about when someone's been translating — we know a user's last contribution to a set of templates, and there's karma as well.
[15:01] <andrejz> and his karma continued to decrease (he got no karma for this work),w ihch made him a bit sad
[15:01] <andrejz> jtv: we would like to do a "5 a day project", which means one should aim to translate 5 strings every day, to make it a part of daily routine and also say, even if you don't have much time you can still do a lot of work over time
[15:01] <jtv> Please tell him not to take the karma too seriously.  It's ultimately a pretty arbitrary thing.
[15:01] <andrejz> i was wondering if it's somehow possible to do trace that
[15:02] <andrejz> @jtv: that's the first thing i said to him
[15:02] <jtv> 5-strings-a-day?  There's other people doing similar things… I'm not sure whether it's technically possible to keep track of that right now; certainly we don't have UI code to make that easy.
[15:03] <andrejz> ok, thanks just wanted to check
[15:04] <jtv> What probably happened in this case is he did some high-karma work a year ago (I think that's what the expiry period is) and that's now expiring faster than he's adding new karma. The last thing he should do is try to keep it up; we wouldn't want our users to  break themselves up for it!
[15:05] <jtv> There is no real consistency in karma.  Sometimes it's easy to get lots for easy, simple stuff that contributes little; sometimes you get nothing for hard but necessary work.  It shouldn't be taken too seriously.
[15:06] <jtv> We do have the translation activity listing on each person's personal Translations page.  That's only one entry per POFile, but per POFile you can also get more information on a particular person's contribution.
[15:06] <jtv> But that's not much help for 5-a-day initiatives because it would mean looking up so many different POFiles.
[15:07] <andrejz> hm, ok. thanks for the explanation
[15:07] <jtv> Sorry the news isn't better; we're currently talking about the need to revamp all this.
[15:10] <andrejz> yeah, that could be pretty cool
[15:10] <andrejz> in the end people always some sort of reward for their effort. Kamra is one of such things
[15:10] <andrejz> always *want*
[15:11] <jtv> Indeed
[19:01] <soren> I have a bunch of PPA packages that are never getting published. What's going on?
[19:02] <Resistance> soren:  publishing can take some time
[19:02] <Resistance> but if the builds freeze
[19:02] <Resistance> or fail
[19:02] <Resistance> then nothing gets published
[19:02] <Resistance> did you check the status of the builds?
[19:02] <soren> Eveyrthing is built. There's a dozen packages. It's been 12hours. I've done thousands of builds.
[19:02] <soren> Not "Thousands of builds" today, obviously.
[19:02] <soren> ..but I 'm quite familiar with the process.
[19:03] <soren> https://launchpad.net/~nebula/+archive/ppa/+packages They're just sitting there.
[19:03] <soren> Have been for many hours.
[19:04]  * Resistance looks
[19:04] <Resistance> i'm not an admin but sometimes i see random things ;P
[19:04] <Resistance> ah you mean the things with "Pending"?
[19:04] <Resistance> yeah, i dunno
[19:05] <Resistance> although i can say...
[19:05] <Resistance> yesterday when i backported (within a PPA) php 5.3.6 from Oneiric to Natty, it took 5 hours for it to actually show up in the published list
[19:06] <lifeless> soren: publisher is disabled until the librarian is fully recovered
[19:06] <Resistance> wait the lplibrarian exploded?
[19:06] <lifeless> see topic
[19:06] <Resistance> ah
[19:06] <Resistance> any eta on the fix?
[19:07] <lifeless> nothing I could stand up and salut
[19:07] <lifeless> e
[19:08] <soren> lifeless: This week?
[19:09] <lifeless> soren: you know how these things go. If we knew it was going to be extended we would say so
[19:09] <lifeless> soren: I simply don't know enough of the various parameters right now!
[19:09] <lifeless> soren: bear with me a little, ok?
[19:10] <soren> lifeless: It wasn't meant as a snarky question. Sorry if it came across that way.
[19:10]  * Resistance loads up his instance of pbuilder :P
[19:11] <soren> lifeless: It was meant as a serious question.
[19:11] <lifeless> sure
[19:11] <lifeless> I think it will be relatively short
[19:12] <lifeless> ubuntu publishing is on hold too - its a big impact
[19:13] <soren> Yeah :-/
[19:13] <soren> I'm sure you're doing all you can. I can see (now) that my question could easily be read as provocative. Sorry about that.
[19:13] <soren> lifeless: ^
[19:13] <lifeless> soren: no worries - and thanks
[19:15] <Resistance> lifeless:  oh that, i can imagine :P
[19:19] <lifeless> ok, so the situation is that a raid array had a drive failure and seized up when given a replacement
[19:19] <lifeless> IS are being appropriately cautious in workaround around it as toasting the array would lose new files since the last backup
[19:21] <lifeless> they are now going to re-degrade it and hard reset things, which should get us back to accessing that data, which we'll suck off to a new home, and then recovery can proceed without regard for the array contents
[19:45] <Resistance> lifeless:  are the builders still working?
[19:45] <Resistance> or is it just the publisher that's down
[19:47] <lifeless> just the publisher
[19:48] <Resistance> so if i upload to the builder i can still get packages built, but not published?
[19:48] <Resistance> (thats assuming the builders arent all frozen)
[19:49] <Resistance> hmm
[19:49] <Resistance> actually
[19:49] <Resistance> lifeless:  according to the build farm page most of the i386 and amd64 builders are down
[19:49] <Resistance> or in this case disabled
[19:50] <Resistance> ignore the i386 part, its the amd64s that are down
[19:52] <lifeless> I'm not aware of anything directly affecting the build farm
[19:52] <Resistance> lifeless:  https://launchpad.net/builders
[19:53] <Resistance> notice the PPA builders under the AMD category
[19:53] <Resistance> ignore the working builds
[19:53] <Resistance> the rest of them seem to be disabled
[19:56] <lifeless> Resistance: I understand, as I say, I'm not aware of anything specific in this category
[19:56] <Resistance> *shrugs*
[19:56] <Resistance> oh well i'll just wait...
[19:56] <Resistance> semi impatiently...
[19:56] <Resistance> but i'll wait :P
[20:30] <falktx> hey there
[20:30] <falktx> I need help
[20:30] <falktx> launchpad rss posted twice
[20:30] <falktx> https://launchpad.net/kxstudio/+announcements
[20:31] <falktx> I don't see a way to delete the double/second post
[20:31] <falktx> can someone help?
[20:32] <falktx> oh, found it...
[20:32] <falktx> very strange position, not easy to find...
[20:32] <falktx> sorry for the noise
[20:37] <EvilResistance> what noise :P


[00:00] <pleia2> webchat is the easiest, but it's a page talking about IRC itself, not the easiest way to connect it
[00:00] <MarkDude> it works on all platforms with a browser
[00:00] <pleia2> and empathy is built in to ubuntu
[00:00] <seidos> but why would anyone read the irc page except to get connected to it?
[00:01] <pleia2> typically when people are sent to that page it's to choice a client (usually because they've been using webchat)
[00:01] <pleia2> s/choice/choose
[00:01] <seidos> i don't disagree with that
[00:01] <seidos> i'm just wondering if the easiest client should be more prominent
[00:02] <seidos> it is possible to be overwhelmed by choices
[00:02] <pleia2> the docs folks hang out in #ubuntu-doc
[00:03] <seidos> i don't see how it's their problem, but i'll speak with them if you would like
[00:03] <pleia2> 15:59:35 < pleia2> seidos: I'm sure you can discuss it with the docs team (it's a wiki, but I'm sure folks may disagree about whether it's more important than the other clients, particularly empathy)
[00:03] <pleia2> it's bad form to introduce controversal changes
[00:03] <pleia2> so you may want to ask the folks responsible for it first :)
[00:04] <seidos> the changes don't necessarily have to be there.  i'll just add a link to webchat on the meeting page for CA
[00:04] <pleia2> we link to ContactUs, which links to two types of webchats and tons of other stuff
[00:04] <pleia2> is that not enough?
[00:05] <seidos> i think it's too much
[00:05]  * pleia2 sighs
[00:05] <MarkDude> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2424094/Wiki.png
[00:05] <seidos> perhaps i'm jumping the gun, but i think that's why MarkDude is bringing it up in the first place
[00:05] <MarkDude> Just replacing ONE of the links to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/Meetings
[00:05] <seidos> just to see if there is a way to streamline the new user process
[00:06] <seidos> if there isn't, well then, how are you?  :P
[00:06] <MarkDude> the one that says IRC channel- actually points to meetings
[00:06] <pleia2> ok, shall we link the IRC Channel one to ubuntu-california.org/chat ?
[00:07]  * MarkDude thinks it would make sense to name it direct chat- or something similar
[00:07] <pleia2> the channel is important for this team, so I really don't want to get rid of the link entirely
[00:07] <MarkDude> Well yes
[00:08] <pleia2> it's terribly annoying for me when teams link to a java/ajax chat instead of just telling me the channel name since I use a client
[00:08] <MarkDude> just one of the 3 places i circled in yellow
[00:08] <MarkDude> pleia2, I agree
[00:08] <seidos> i think just making "Javascript webchat client" a link to http://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=ubuntu-us-ca would be good
[00:08] <seidos> on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/Meetings
[00:09] <nhaines> MarkDude: Do you think the Online Meetings section should be removed to reduce the number of links?
[00:09] <nhaines> Or do you think it's not a good way to get involved and should be removed from that section?
[00:09] <MarkDude> a sugar project has one of those - it always disconnects
[00:09] <nhaines> Or do you think it's not a good way to contact us and should be removed from that section?
[00:09] <pleia2> the News Archive link isn't great either, since we don't keep it updated
[00:09] <pleia2> probably better to link to Team Reports
[00:09] <MarkDude> I think it would be a great way to encourage folks to try irc
[00:10] <pleia2> s/to link/to just link
[00:10] <MarkDude> the dropbox photo circles it
[00:10] <nhaines> Then you decline to answer.
[00:10] <pleia2> MarkDude: can you add this to the meeting agenda? I need to get back to doing home stuff
[00:10] <seidos> mu
[00:10] <MarkDude> under the contact us would be  where to put direct link to webchat
[00:10] <nhaines> seidos: not witty or helpful.
[00:10] <atikus> eh
[00:11] <MarkDude> nhaines, dont stress- I was not sure if I should put on agenda or not
[00:11] <atikus> is the wiki all that official? like couldn't you just edit it then if people don't like it they could revert then if there's a disagreement people talk to eachother
[00:11] <MarkDude> I will
[00:11] <nhaines> MarkDude: so you don't want to reduce the number of links, you just want the links to direct to various places?
[00:11] <seidos> nhaines: sure
[00:11] <nhaines> atikus: the last time that happened, the team leadership was removed by the LoCo Council.
[00:12] <MarkDude> atikus, revert wars on wikis can be rather a bit much
[00:12] <atikus> team leadership?
[00:12] <MarkDude> nhaines, had very legit questions, btw, and pleia2 thinks meeting would be the place to talk
[00:13] <pleia2> MarkDude: you can talk now if you want, but more people will be at the meeting
[00:13] <pleia2> anyway, laundry n stuff
[00:13]  * MarkDude agrees
[00:13] <MarkDude> and learned from how all that wiki stuff bot over hyped
[00:14] <atikus> wait so is there officially recognized team leadership currently?
[00:14] <MarkDude> not a huge deal, just anything to make stuff easier
[00:14] <MarkDude> yes 3 folks atikus
[00:14] <nhaines> atikus: yes, three people were appointed by the LoCo Council.
[00:15] <atikus> after?
[00:15] <nhaines> atikus: after they abrogated elections, I believe.
[00:16] <atikus> ah
[00:16] <pleia2> atikus: they approved the team decision to have 3 leaders and excluded some folks from leadership due to past problems, when elections came around only 3 nominees existed so they were confirmed
[00:17] <atikus> out of curiosity, are there records of the election?
[00:17] <Eureka> wiki: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/Menu edited
[00:17] <MarkDude> If more people were nominated - there would have been elections
[00:17] <nhaines> atikus: no, because elections did not take place.
[00:18] <pleia2> elections didn't take place because there were 3 candidates for 3 positions
[00:18] <pleia2> atikus: yeah, in meeting logs and the mailing list
[00:18] <pleia2> mostly at https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-us-ca/2010-October/thread.html
[00:19] <pleia2> anyway, the loco council won't be involved at all in our next election in October, so hopefully this is all water under the bridge :)
[00:19] <atikus> ah, alright
[00:19] <atikus> nice
[00:20] <MarkDude> Not only that- folks lurned from what happened- things get sorted out fairly now- not that I am implying there were not before. The team has just grown :)
[00:20]  * pleia2 nods
[00:21]  * seidos plays a tune on a flute
[00:21]  * MarkDude was wondering if we might have volunteers for doing the Facebook Cali team page- we get all sorts of views on there
[00:22] <MarkDude> seidos, what tune?
[00:23] <seidos> MarkDude: i'm not sure, i'm watching this movie "Darios de motocicleta", and there was a tune that played
[00:24] <seidos> on the one hand metaphor...on the other hand literal
[00:24] <MarkDude> Not sure what that means- but I am pretending it is the Spanish version of Mouse and the Motorcycle
[00:25] <seidos> Mouse and the Motorcycle is probably more entertaining.  it means "motorcycle diaries", it's an argentinan film i heard about
[00:26] <seidos> i also got "sobre todo mi madre", and "hable con ella"
[00:26] <seidos> but there weren't any flute tunes in those
[00:26] <seidos> that i can recall
[00:32] <MarkDude> Can you do Star Wars with the flute?
[00:32] <MarkDude> maybe Vaders theme?
[00:32] <seidos> metaphorically yes, literally no
[00:32] <MarkDude> Rebecca Black and that horrible Friday song?
[00:32] <MarkDude> :)
[00:32] <seidos> well, literally not well.  i would like a shakuhachi some day though
[00:33] <seidos> not enough to actually think about it though
[00:33] <Eureka> wiki: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/Meetings edited
[00:37] <MarkDude> I was teaching someone about detachment the other day- I thought of you
[00:37] <MarkDude> and how you might be able to explain it better :)
[02:50] <Eureka> wiki: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/Meetings/11April24 edited
[02:51] <dragon> Ohai Eureka!
[02:51] <dragon> Long time no see buddy.
[02:51] <dragon> I missed you, you know.
[02:51] <pleia2> evening
[02:51] <dragon> Hai pleia2!
[02:52] <pleia2> how goes, dragon?
[02:53] <dragon> Pretty well, and yourself?
[02:53] <pleia2> busy! but good :)
[02:56] <dragon> that's nice!
[03:00] <pleia2> ok, meeting time!
[03:00] <pleia2> who all is here for the meeting?
[03:00] <dragon> moi!
[03:01] <eps> ☺
[03:01] <aaditya> and me?
[03:01] <akk> me
[03:01] <pleia2> Agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/Meetings/11April24
[03:02] <pleia2> is Ian Scott here? he added the first agenda item
[03:02] <seidos> present
[03:02] <pleia2> not sure what he had in mind for this item :) the big thing coming out with Natty is the new Unity interface
[03:03] <pleia2> http://unity.ubuntu.com/
[03:03] <pleia2> maybe we should come back to this one if he drops by
[03:03] <pleia2> so... Release Parties!
[03:03] <pleia2> we have a wiki page here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/Projects/NattyRelease
[03:04] <pleia2> so far the only thing on it is a San Francisco release party over at Thirsty Bear again
[03:04] <pleia2> (I'll be sending out an announcement to the list momentarily
[03:04] <pleia2> )
[03:04] <eps> Is there any chance we can get the upstairs, or tables in the back?
[03:04] <dragon> Would be nice to have one in south bay.
[03:04] <dragon> MarkDude: ping?
[03:04] <pleia2> eps: unfortunately not, upstairs was something like $45/person :(
[03:05] <pleia2> $22 in food, $14 in drinks I think it was
[03:05] <pleia2> so $36
[03:05] <pleia2> but still too much!
[03:05] <pleia2> I'll make clear in the announcement that it's an informal gathering though, rather than some structured event, just look for people in Ubuntu tshirts :)
[03:05] <eps> Can we at least get a table near a power outlet?
[03:06] <pleia2> we can ask, but I wouldn't recommend bringing a laptop, it's more of an eat, drink, be merry thing like the Lucid one was
[03:06] <pleia2> if we want to plan a structured event where we do demos we should schedule a separate event
[03:07] <pleia2> (and by "we" I mean the team, "not me" :))
[03:08]  * MarkDude here- with distractions sry
[03:08] <seidos> if you want a challenge, try finding the person wearing an ubuntu pen
[03:09] <pleia2> dragon: maybe a south bay geeknic release party? :)
[03:09] <MarkDude> The wifi now WORKS well at Saxbys- we can do there-
[03:09] <MarkDude> lets do that park near LosGatos again
[03:09] <dragon> geeknic + release party would be nice.
[03:09] <dragon> yes MarkDude!
[03:09] <dragon> I'm in.
[03:09] <MarkDude> on a day they have that free music
[03:09] <MarkDude> +1
[03:10] <seidos> that reminds me, i need to keep working on my juggling
[03:10] <pleia2> ok cool, other thoughts on release things?
[03:12] <grantbow> sorry I'm late.
[03:12] <dragon> welcome grantbow!
[03:13]  * grantbow reads
[03:14] <eps> What Narwhal paraphernalia do we have?
[03:15] <pleia2> I have a stuffed animal narwhal
[03:15] <grantbow> eps: what do you want to bring? :-)
[03:16] <eps> grantbow: it's not going to be ready in time
[03:16]  * sn9 has been too out of the loop lately
[03:16] <pleia2> well, release is this upcoming Thursday, but anyone can host installfests and things after that, so keep it in mind in the coming weeks even if you can't organize something by next weekend
[03:17] <grantbow> good overview of the release (I give talks from this web page) https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NattyNarwhal/TechnicalOverview
[03:17] <sn9> oh wow, is it meeting night?
[03:17] <grantbow> yup
[03:18] <grantbow> Right, events can take place shortly after the release this Thursday.
[03:18] <pleia2> ok, announcement for SF party sent out: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-us-ca/2011-April/001672.html
[03:18] <grantbow> for some definition of shortly
[03:18] <grantbow> pleia2: good work
[03:18] <pleia2> grantbow: late :( but I've been overwhelmed today
[03:19] <pleia2> ok, shall we move on to MarkDude's agenda item about the IRC link?
[03:19] <grantbow> last minute agenda items - you are on MarkDude.
[03:20] <pleia2> "Putting webchat link in Team header- to replace one of the the three links that points to IRC meeting page more info We have webchat links, they are located further with a few more clicks."
[03:20] <pleia2> MarkDude: all yours!
[03:21] <pleia2> my suggestion was to add a link to ubuntu-california.org/chat instead, since I hate when chat links go to web chats rather than just telling me what channel to join ;)
[03:21] <MarkDude> Ok I think we should put a link to webchat
[03:21] <seidos> grantbow: better late than never
[03:21] <MarkDude> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarkTerranova/wiki_header#preview
[03:22] <MarkDude> pleia2, we could do that for one of the other 2 links to irc meeting page
[03:22] <grantbow> seidos: sometimes, last minute agenda items have been discussed in CA team meetings before.
[03:22] <eps> The "IRC Channel" link should change
[03:22] <pleia2> eps: yeah, that's what we're discussing
[03:22] <pleia2> MarkDude: yeah, but I wouldn't click on that if I was looking for the IRC channel, I'd click on the IRC Channel link and then get annoyed that it went to a web chat
[03:22] <akk> Can we have both? Like pleia2 I'd hate to be taken to a webchat link without warning -- but we should have them for people who need them.
[03:22]  * MarkDude outlineed his thoughts on the wiki page, its only a wiki thing - and not a super serious issue :)
[03:22] <grantbow> this isn't a big change IMHO
[03:23] <eps> "Online Meetings" under "Get Involved" doesn't make sense given that there's a full-fledged column right next to it.
[03:23] <pleia2> yeah, not a big change
[03:23] <iheartubuntu> so you dont want it going direct to a webchat?
[03:23] <MarkDude> Well to tell a newbie click on the webchat named link- would work on any page
[03:23] <seidos> pleia2: but you wouldn't need the link in the first place, would you?
[03:23] <pleia2> iheartubuntu: I'd rather it go to a page that says "here's the IRC channel name, here's the webchat link"
[03:23] <iheartubuntu> or just clarifying thel ink
[03:23] <grantbow> where's the diff? :)
[03:23] <MarkDude> since it is in the header
[03:23] <pleia2> akk: the question is how we'd fit it in that tiny menu :)
[03:24] <pleia2> seidos: I would if I was new to the team
[03:24] <seidos> why not make the link read "IRC: #ubuntu-us-ca" and when clicked, opens webchat
[03:24] <pleia2> seidos: that could work
[03:24] <eps> I'm OK with a level of indirection. I'm not a fan of webchat, except as a last resort.
[03:24] <pleia2> seidos: actually, new people don't know what IRC means
[03:24] <pleia2> :\
[03:24] <MarkDude> if you click on the webchat link that has the channel name already, we reduce a few hoops
[03:25] <iheartubuntu> MarkDude are you saying from your page we have too many links to the webchat and to consolidate them?
[03:25] <pleia2> "IRC Channel" as it is named now is probably a poor name
[03:25] <MarkDude> webchat makes assumptive sense
[03:25] <pleia2> "Chat in #ubuntu-us-ca" perhaps?
[03:25] <sn9> "chatroom"
[03:25] <MarkDude> sure :)
[03:25] <iheartubuntu> many newbies dont even know what IRC stands for
[03:25] <dragon> pleia2: +1, that's what I was thinking.
[03:25] <MarkDude> chatroom sounds scary sn9
[03:25] <seidos> then say Channel: #ubuntu-us-ca
[03:25] <MarkDude> pleia2, +1
[03:25] <pleia2> seidos: people don't know what a Channel is either :)
[03:25] <eps> Newbies have enough trouble with the concept of online meetings.
[03:26] <pleia2> it's a think you tune on your TV, right?
[03:26] <MarkDude> webchat word help bridge it, imho
[03:26] <iheartubuntu> + for pleia2
[03:26] <seidos> pleia2: under contact us it says "IRC Channel"
[03:26] <dragon> also, on the following page, the text "javascript webchat client" doesn't really make sense.
[03:26] <pleia2> seidos: yeah, that's the wording we're trying to fix
[03:26] <dragon> Not everyone knows the meaning and implications of "Javascript".
[03:26] <sn9> whenever i explain what irc is i get "so, it's a chatroom?"
[03:26] <seidos> pleia2: at one point people didn't know what "email" meant either
[03:26] <pleia2> so, "Chat in #ubuntu-us-ca" with a link to http://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=ubuntu-us-ca
[03:26] <MarkDude> dragon, minus that it causes their browser to crash :D
[03:27] <MarkDude> that works for me
[03:27] <dragon> lol.
[03:27] <grantbow> is our wiki for us or the public or both?
[03:27] <dragon> pleia2: even better to embed the chatroom in a wiki page, if possible.
[03:27] <pleia2> grantbow: both
[03:27] <pleia2> dragon: not possible
[03:27] <MarkDude> And will make it less frustrating for when folks are at conferences that dont agree with some chat clients
[03:28] <eps> Is there an https: page we can link to?
[03:28] <dragon> ah okay. Link works then.
[03:28] <MarkDude> dragon, Oregon did that with a hello icon- sounded good
[03:28] <MarkDude> a few folks felt talked down to needing to click on a picture
[03:28] <MarkDude> too easy can feel like a pat on the head :)
[03:29] <grantbow> depends on your assumptions about the audience
[03:29] <grantbow> vs. actuals
[03:29] <pleia2> well, I think this is a pretty simple change and we link to our Meetings page enough, any major objections?
[03:29] <iheartubuntu> I like pleia2 example of "Chat in #ubuntu-us-ca" with a link to http://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=ubuntu-us-ca "
[03:29] <pleia2> thanks for bringing this up MarkDude, it's a good change :)
[03:30] <nhaines> I think we need to make sure the wording is very distinct between an explanation page and a direct webclient.
[03:30] <pleia2> we have a very small space to use
[03:30] <MarkDude> np
[03:31] <MarkDude> nhaines, is correct - it appears some fine tuning on wording could be used
[03:31] <pleia2> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom for instance links directly without mentioning channel
[03:31] <pleia2> and that's a pretty common example
[03:31] <MarkDude> on the irc page- if another link for sumthin is needed- we have it :)
[03:32] <pleia2> so even with the "Chat in #ubuntu-us-ca" I was trying to be a bit more explicit than some :)
[03:32] <iheartubuntu> we could have the link go to a landing page describing what the chat is about, upcoming meetings, and then the link to the direct chat
[03:32] <grantbow> nhaines: what do you think is needed?
[03:32] <iheartubuntu> what about "live webchat"
[03:32] <pleia2> iheartubuntu: I think that's what Mark is trying to avoid, lots of clicks to get to chat
[03:32] <iheartubuntu> instead of irc channel
[03:33] <nhaines> grantbow: a compelling reason to change the menus, to start.
[03:33] <iheartubuntu> how about live webchat then
[03:33] <pleia2> iheartubuntu: then where do we put #ubuntu-us-ca for experienced users? another line?
[03:33] <iheartubuntu> if its LIVE people should get the intention
[03:33] <MarkDude> iheartubuntu, we have a link to it on the irc page I believe
[03:33] <pleia2> nhaines: currently "IRC Channel" links to our Meetings page, which is incorrect, I think that's a compelling reason
[03:34] <iheartubuntu> its still not technically live yet until they key in a nickname and the captha
[03:34] <MarkDude> we can have two paths or more to get there-
[03:34] <iheartubuntu> "live webchat #ubuntu-us-ca"
[03:34] <pleia2> we do much much more than meetings here (in fact, most of our everything is done here, we're a very chat-heavy team)
[03:34] <nhaines> pleia2: it's a compelling reason to have a page describing the channel, perhaps.
[03:35] <pleia2> yeah, which is why at the beginning of this I suggested just linking to ubuntu-california.org/chat
[03:35] <nhaines> Especially if there are more than one.
[03:35] <pleia2> yeah, we do have the -offtopic channel that isn't actually mentioned anywhere but the /topic here
[03:36] <sn9> that should be on the wiki
[03:36] <grantbow> sn9: where do you recommend it be put?
[03:36] <iheartubuntu> at the top of this chat is pretty good already IMO
[03:37] <iheartubuntu> when one enters this chat, everything very clear. webpage, next meeting, the chat is logged, and that we have an unlogged room too
[03:38] <sn9> grantbow: anywhere is better than nowhere
[03:39] <nhaines> iheartubuntu: are you saying that this information should only be available if someone is able to connect to IRC?
[03:39] <pleia2> MarkDude: is your objection that it takes several clicks to get to webchat? would wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/IRC page that we link to in the menu with links to webchat and both channels be sufficient?
[03:39] <eps> iheartubuntu: yes, very clear. Very clear text. Not good for using registered nicks.
[03:39] <pleia2> that would also give us the opportunity to explain what it is
[03:39] <iheartubuntu> it would make sense to also be on a landing page as i mentioned earlier, before someone enters a chat
[03:39] <seidos> additional information could be included in the general "contact us" link
[03:39] <MarkDude> Not really, IMHO
[03:39] <MarkDude> But I dont feel the need to argue it
[03:40] <MarkDude> one less click is good
[03:40] <MarkDude> Just like folks not needing to create a LP acct 1st
[03:40] <seidos> an additional click is fine if there utility to it
[03:40] <seidos> *there's
[03:40] <pleia2> ok, well I think we can agree that at least clarification is needed (not link to Meetings), just where to link and wording
[03:40] <nhaines> MarkDude: no one needs to create an LP account before joining the chat.  That doesn't make any sense.
[03:40] <iheartubuntu> im jsut trying to think of myself as a new user coming here... id appreciate a landing page describing the webchat and info about it before entering
[03:40] <MarkDude> we have 3 links that go to the same place in the header- we would not lose anything at all
[03:41] <eps> +2
[03:41] <pleia2> MarkDude: mind if I brainstorm a little this week and you can let me know what you think?
[03:41] <MarkDude> iheartubuntu, as I have done with other people - when sending them to a channel
[03:41] <MarkDude> webchat direct links they can use on Windows , apple, or Linux are helpful
[03:41] <seidos> perhaps creating a page on the ubuntucalifornia site with embedded chat that includes a description?
[03:41] <MarkDude> Sure only 3 people at most
[03:42] <pleia2> seidos: ubuntu-california.org/chat just lacks embedded
[03:42] <pleia2> we could do that
[03:42] <pleia2> I'll do that as a test this week and see what people think
[03:42] <nhaines> Can we make sure we don't just dump people into a logged, permanently archived and searchable channel without their prior consent?
[03:42] <seidos> i'm not sure the best way to embed webchat on ubuntu-california.org/chat
[03:42] <seidos> does anyone?
[03:43]  * MarkDude leaves- the L word was said
[03:43] <iheartubuntu> nhaines - logging into webchat.freenode you need to type in any nick and also a phrase to enter
[03:43] <pleia2> seidos: yes, it's easy
[03:43] <iheartubuntu> webchat.freenode describes how to embed the chat into a page
[03:43] <pleia2> ok, well Mark left and that was his agenda item so we should probably wrap up and revisit when we have some ideas together
[03:43] <nhaines> iheartubuntu: is the embedded chat going to use webchat.freenode?
[03:43] <iheartubuntu> i would think so
[03:43] <pleia2> yep
[03:44] <grantbow> MarkDude: for the log - uh, what? You put this on the agenda.
[03:44] <iheartubuntu> its the easiest... but it has bugs when using chrome
[03:44] <iheartubuntu> nothing major
[03:44] <seidos> iheartubuntu: sweet
[03:44] <pleia2> ok, so let's move on, that's the last agenda item, but anything else?
[03:44] <pleia2> Announcements? Questions? Etc?
[03:45] <nhaines> pleia2: I would like to request natty CDs this cycle.
[03:46] <iheartubuntu> announcement... pasadena ubuntu hour was a big success. 8 peopel showed up. siedos was there also jbermudes
[03:46] <pleia2> nhaines: sure thing! I'll email the list when I get them in and keep details about how many we have remaining on the wiki just like with Maverick
[03:46] <pleia2> I sent the team request a few weeks back
[03:46] <iheartubuntu> richard who spoke at ubucon was there as well
[03:46] <grantbow> pleia2: +1
[03:46] <nhaines> pleia2: excellent.  I'd like to get a set for OCLUG as well, but I'll do details later.  What's the best way to request them?
[03:46] <pleia2> yep, april 7th https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-us-ca/2011-April/001658.html
[03:47] <pleia2> nhaines: just email me how many you need and I'll get them shipped out
[03:47] <pleia2> locals here tend to donate for shipping across the state, so I don't generally have to pay much out of pocket
[03:47] <nhaines> pleia2: I'm happy to cover shipping.  We'll work that out in email too.  :)
[03:47] <pleia2> nhaines: sounds good!
[03:48] <pleia2> iheartubuntu: that rocks re: pasadena hour!
[03:48] <iheartubuntu> for those wanting to do ubuntu hours, it really attracts people to have a UH on the same day as a LUG
[03:48] <pleia2> our SF hour had 5 people, but we did bump into a project manager in the shop who said she uses ubuntu too :) and that's what it's all about, good times
[03:49] <pleia2> yeah, ubuntu hour + debian dinner works out great for us every few months
[03:49] <iheartubuntu> any advice would be appreciated on doing a regular quarterly shipment from ubuntu store. best timeframe to order based on store sales and ubuntu release dates
[03:50] <nhaines> OCLUG is planning a weeknight meeting to test attendance and is planning it around Ubuntu Hour in Lake Forest so they don't overlap.  I thought that was really thoughtful.
[03:50] <nhaines> (They're planning it to be on the alternate week to avoid overlaps.)
[03:50] <pleia2> ah, that's nice of them
[03:51] <pleia2> iheartubuntu: that's a good question, I'm not sure, I think their release of merchandise can be a bit random :\
[03:51] <nhaines> Usually they dump merchandise just before the new cycle.  I was shocked to see natty shirts last week.  Usually it's really two weeks after launch before they get stuff in.
[03:52] <iheartubuntu> i had 4 people order when i placed the order... might work better if i didnt order right before a major release as nhaines advised
[03:52] <pleia2> ok, we can probably wrap things up now (and I need to go make dinner)
[03:52] <pleia2> thanks everyone :)
[03:52]  * iheartubuntu wonders what the L word is
[03:52] <iheartubuntu> linux?
[03:52] <sn9> no
[03:52] <iheartubuntu> logged?
[03:53] <grantbow> thanks all
[03:53] <sn9> it's a word that's in the /topic
[03:53] <grantbow> join #ubuntu-us-ca-offtopic ;-)
[03:54] <seidos> or #fictionalphilosophy!
[03:54] <iheartubuntu> :D
[03:54] <seidos> and #iheartubuntu ;)
[03:55] <sn9> ##stupidcrap
[03:56] <seidos> T_T
[03:56] <grantbow> lol
[03:56] <seidos> he's laughing at my pain
[03:58] <grantbow> me? no. plenty else to laugh at here.
[03:59] <grantbow> like the REAL "l" word - LoCo
[03:59] <jledbetter> heh true
[04:07] <sn9> seidos: ping
[04:08] <seidos> sn9: pong
[04:08] <seidos> my connection isn't slow, i was doing dishes
[04:13] <sn9> seidos: you have /notice blocked, too?
[04:16] <seidos> sn9: apparently, yes.  you might try /query
[08:25] <philipballew> whats the best way to run ssh on a server with dynamic ip address?
[09:13] <nhaines> philipballew: either get a router that supports DynDNS accounts, or run a cron script that SFTPs your server's IP address to a secret file on a web host.
[09:16] <philipballew> alright, ill open up the router tonight and see what it can do! thanks
[18:05] <iheartubuntu> I notice there is a Solano Stroll 2011 planned. Does the CA team plan to do that again this year? Look like it was PACKED last year. WOW!
[18:10] <pleia2> yep, that's the plan
[18:10] <MarkDude> Great event
[18:10] <iheartubuntu> id love to be there! looks incredible.
[18:10] <pleia2> hopefully I'll get to go this year, I don't remember where I was last year
[18:11] <MarkDude> Sorry for leaving the meeting- I figured the last thing this team needs is a huge debate over a simple wiki edit
[18:11] <iheartubuntu> there is an event in Claremont, CA down here... i think it was recent (or end of last year) that is supposedly the largest street fair event down here. im willing to look into it and get mroe info for an Ubuntu booth
[18:12] <pleia2> oh, I was in Philly, tail end of labor day trip
[18:12] <iheartubuntu> people are passionate about wiki :) haha
[18:12]  * MarkDude does not plan on discussing logging
[18:12] <pleia2> iheartubuntu: nice!
[18:12] <iheartubuntu> time is going by so quick these days i dont recall if it was last month or end of last year! yikes
[18:12] <pleia2> there is a lug up here that goes to a farmers market
[18:13] <pleia2> one in jersey has set up a booth at a flea market, and akgraner's loco went to a goat festival once
[18:13] <MarkDude> iheartubuntu, that is why I tried to clarify it was a small blip in the whole order of things
[18:14]  * MarkDude spent time helping organize a release party in Portland at a cool place called Backspace
[18:14] <pleia2> non-geeky regular people there?
[18:15] <pleia2> I think that's what's great about solano (and other events like it)
[18:15] <pleia2> whole new audience!
[18:17] <iheartubuntu> OK, i checked. Its usually in october in Claremont, CA... southern californias largest autumn street fair.
[18:17] <iheartubuntu> although not as big as the solano one, it was pretty crowded last year
[18:18]  * MarkDude has learned from Solano- that having folks in the booth is great
[18:18] <MarkDude> but having a person standing in the crowd directing folks to the booth kept us very busy
[18:19]  * MarkDude 's question to folks was- have you heard about Ubuntu?
[18:19] <MarkDude> and since its basically Berkeley - I would follow up with do you want FREEDOM on your computer?
[18:39] <iheartubuntu> pleia2 - excellent article about jledbetter :) now, if only i can learn java in 30 days as the book suggests
[18:40]  * pleia2 breaks down "girls don't like computers" myth one interview at a time!
[18:40] <MarkDude> +1
[18:41] <iheartubuntu> gave a few ubuntu cds out yesterday at the bbq
[18:44] <iheartubuntu> example... mac user who is on an extreme budget. cant afford more software (or afford anything really)
[18:44] <iheartubuntu> he had never heard of ubunut
[18:44] <iheartubuntu> ubuntu
[18:44] <iheartubuntu> i guess i am an ubu-nut though
[18:44] <MarkDude> mac can be a hassle depending in which bootloader it has
[18:44] <iheartubuntu> he doesnt do video editing or anything
[18:45] <iheartubuntu> so for him, ubuntu might actually be something for him to think about when his computer goes bye bye
[18:55] <iheartubuntu> im interested in getting more women involved in ubuntu
[18:55] <iheartubuntu> both involved and just generally using ubuntu
[18:56] <MarkDude> iheartubuntu, +1
[18:56] <MarkDude> it is very rewarding
[18:56] <MarkDude> As long as you can make sure you are not pandering- it is cool to see folks learn new skills
[18:59] <iheartubuntu> a prime example... my wife prefers XP. MS money is on it, as well as quick books pro. her comp at home is XP and she always complains about it. always. im always trying to fix something on it
[18:59] <iheartubuntu> at work here, ive got ubuntu for her comp, with xp in virtualbox
[18:59] <iheartubuntu> i really didnt have to teach her anything about ubuntu
[18:59] <iheartubuntu> she picked it up on her own
[19:00] <iheartubuntu> we got a new webcam so she can talk to family
[19:00] <iheartubuntu> she didnt even ask me for help
[19:00] <iheartubuntu> plugged it in and it worked
[19:00] <iheartubuntu> no drivers to install from a cd or anything
[19:00] <MarkDude> No doubt
[19:00] <iheartubuntu> i asked her about it and she said "dont worry, i got it working"
[19:00]  * MarkDude 's Grandma has been using Linux for almost 2 years
[19:00] <iheartubuntu> wait what? she just plugged it in :)
[19:01] <iheartubuntu> how is that getting it working!
[19:03] <iheartubuntu> at a friends house a year ago, the gal was trying to show us some video on hulu or one of those sites... and it was an xp computer and the gal was having all sorts of probs going full screen so i gave her an ubuntu disc.
[19:03] <iheartubuntu> she uses ubuntu now
[19:03] <pleia2> this conversation would be nicer if you didn't seem so shocked :)
[19:03] <pleia2> OMG a girl can use a computer! wow!
[19:04] <iheartubuntu> well, some girls like everything done for them too
[19:04] <iheartubuntu> like my wife :)
[19:04] <iheartubuntu> and i think ubuntu just makes life simple for gals like that i think... ive been replaced
[19:04] <pleia2> I haven't actually noticed a whole lot of difference between showing non-techie men and women about ubuntu
[19:05] <iheartubuntu> well, thats true. im helping an older guy who screws pretty much everything up possible on his comp when it was  a windows computer
[19:06] <pleia2> most of my work is just getting to that point, our culture is very man == techie; so finding a woman who is interested in taking control of her technical realm is half the battle, once they get to the installfest they're just like anyone else :)
[19:07] <iheartubuntu> thats my point. getting them to an installfest or an ubuntu hour
[19:08] <iheartubuntu> pleia2 is right about both M/F who are non techie. i mean people and companies pay bucks just to install MS office
[19:08] <iheartubuntu> so all pasadena ubuntu hour guests were male.i noticed the SGVLUG had about 20 men and 3 women?
[19:09] <pleia2> getting the first one is always the hardest
[19:11] <iheartubuntu> the president of the CSULA accounting dept uses ubuntu (i was going to give him a disc :) ) and his wife uses it too
[19:12] <pleia2> I learned recently that my ex-husband uses ubuntu these days, crazy, he was a pretty hard core gentoo guy
[19:12] <pleia2> he's the one who introduced me to linux, but when he went gentoo in 2003 I had a hard time following, stuck with debian
[19:12] <iheartubuntu> and most SGVLUG users who had their computers on were ubuntu
[19:13] <iheartubuntu> several commented ubuntu is the entry level linux for beginners, yet everyones using it
[19:13] <pleia2> well, it "just works"
[19:14]  * MarkDude learned from Ubuntu Women that nuance is important iheartubuntu
[19:14] <iheartubuntu> what would you say about a person who is in the editing biz says he requires MS Word for all docs and wont switch to Ubuntu? I even recommended to do VB if MS Word was that important
[19:14]  * MarkDude used to say that Linux is easy enough my Grandma can use it
[19:15] <pleia2> MarkDude: then valorie smacked you upside the head? :)
[19:15] <MarkDude> I now say Grandparents can use it- and then talk about my specific situation
[19:15] <MarkDude> pleia2, lol
[19:15] <MarkDude> Nope
[19:15] <MarkDude> She is not part of the 10-20% militant part of the group
[19:16] <pleia2> oh I see, she had someone do it for her
[19:16] <pleia2> ;D
[19:16] <MarkDude> the folks that say women should resist pink
[19:16] <MarkDude> and only wear pantsuits
[19:16] <MarkDude> No it was an open talk
[19:16] <MarkDude> the feedback I was given was rather fiar
[19:16] <MarkDude> fair
[19:16] <pleia2> that's cool
[19:17]  * MarkDude likes the small % that is militant- movements need folks like that
[19:19] <MarkDude> iheartubuntu, what was brought to my attention is that some would focus on the gender thing- alothough that was NOT my intent
[19:19] <iheartubuntu> i see
[19:19] <iheartubuntu> im just speaking from personal experiences
[19:19] <MarkDude> Using women as the lowest common denominator feeds a not equal view
[19:20] <MarkDude> as was I
[19:20] <MarkDude> I still can do that
[19:20] <iheartubuntu> i know my wife likes things done for her such as, format the computer and put the OS on
[19:20] <MarkDude> I just lead off with Grandparents- and clarify My Grandpa would use it if he were alive
[19:21] <iheartubuntu> while this friend with the XP trying to do hulu and had probs... the last time we were at her house, she had ubuntu on and did it on her own.
[19:21]  * MarkDude suggests that you have a deal with one mate being more technically inclined
[19:21]  * MarkDude was restrted in computers- by a woman
[19:21] <akk> MarkDude, it's pretty common for publishing people to use only MS stuff. Hard to fight it unless they're publishing opensource stuff.
[19:22] <MarkDude> my ex-fiancee pushed me into it :)
[19:22]  * akk is being a bit stubborn and irritating about tools on the next gimp book edition
[19:22] <iheartubuntu> akk - my brother does editing & translation work for japanese firms
[19:22] <MarkDude> The common thread being willing to change- if the starting work is done for them
[19:22] <pleia2> I've even heard horror stories from folks writing o'reilly books (but apparently they've gotten better at accepting open source tools)
[19:23] <iheartubuntu> he refuses to switch to anything but ms word
[19:24] <akk> pleia2: O'Reilly reportedly will accept docbook or latex now. (Apress won't, but they claim they're willing to accept OO, which I take to mean ODF.)
[19:24] <akk> I wanted to try latex.
[20:02] <iheartubuntu> projectdp did you say a week or two ago that you make music
[20:03] <projectdp> hello, no i don't thinks o
[20:04] <iheartubuntu> it was someone else who popped in when you did then
[20:04] <projectdp> i think you have someone else confused with me
[20:04] <projectdp> ah
[20:04] <iheartubuntu> dang. i need some music help
[20:05] <projectdp> yeah i'd like to be making music but i have no idea how
[20:05] <MarkDude> Start with audacity projectdp
[20:06] <MarkDude> Hello - my name is Mark
[20:06] <projectdp> hello mark
[20:06] <projectdp> i've used audacity a bit
[20:06] <projectdp> just for converting mp3's
[20:16] <MarkDude> It can be used for podcasts
[20:16] <MarkDude> as well as making some music
[20:16] <MarkDude> #opensourcemusicians
[20:17] <MarkDude> ^^^^ join that channel- there are some cool people there projectdp
[20:17] <MarkDude> they also have a podcast about making music :)
[20:22] <projectdp> thanks :)
[20:23] <projectdp> hey how do you search with /list?
[20:23] <projectdp> i tried it with a name after "/list music"
[20:23] <projectdp> no good, whats the proper method?
[20:26]  * MarkDude is not sure
[20:28] <nhaines> akk: I don't expect Apress to accept open formats, although I sort of expect O'Reilly to.  ;)
[20:28] <nhaines> Not sure I'd ever send in a manuscript in a word processing text format unless I wasn't doing the typesetting... but probably as an author I won't be.  :)
[20:28] <MarkDude> projectdp, join the channel- I am sure they can help
[20:28] <MarkDude> have you heard their podcast?
[20:28] <MarkDude> #opensourcemusicians
[20:29] <pleia2> projectdp: /msg alis help
[20:29] <pleia2> alis is a service on freenode which searches registered channels
[20:30] <pleia2> so like, /msg alis list *music*
[20:32] <nhaines> Putting "music" in asterisks makes it bold and tells alis that you're really serious about music.
[20:33] <pleia2> it's not in bold, irssi just does that :)
[20:33] <nhaines> pleia2: it was fun to say.  :)
[20:38] <projectdp> thanks pleia2  :)
[20:41] <projectdp> hey seidos
[21:10] <seidos> aloha projectdp