[03:05] <LaserJock> does anybody know what font is used for the panel in plasma-netbook?
[03:05] <LaserJock> rather, how can I change that font
[07:17] <yofel> ScottK: I'll try an armel build here using that
[07:50] <yofel> ScottK: still building bug I need to go, dcraw_common.o was built successfully with mfloat-abi=soft
[07:51] <yofel> s/bug/but
[08:03] <bambee> morning
[08:06] <bambee> yofel: Does gpg-agent start when you open your kde session?
[08:07] <bambee> (it should be started by kdm and it's not apparently)
[08:55] <yofel> he's gone, but I don't have a gpg-agent running either
[08:55] <yofel> (not the only issue with kdm though as it seems)
[08:55] <yofel> and I managed to trash my next btrfs :S
[09:01] <CIA-52> [lp:~kubuntu-packagers/kubuntu-packaging/libkdcraw] Philip Muškovac * 6 * debian/ (changelog rules) Build with CXXFLAGS += -mfloat-abi=soft to work around launchpad bug #807573
[09:02] <yofel> can someone upload that please?
[09:05] <shadeslayer> so, there seems to be  list for kde licensing, kde-licensing AT kde DOT org
[09:07] <yofel> when was the last mail to the list?
[09:07] <yofel> ah, bambee's back
[09:08] <yofel> bambee: no, I have no gpg-agent either
[09:08] <bambee> yes :)
[09:08] <bambee> mhh
[09:08] <bambee> have you a "[: 239: =: unexpected operator" in your .xsession-errors ?
[09:08] <yofel> it also seems to ignore other generic xsession stuff
[09:08] <bambee> exact !
[09:08] <yofel> like our neon xsession profile :(
[09:08] <bambee> arf
[09:09] <yofel> bambee: can't test, I just trashed the btrfs my oneiric installation was on
[09:09] <yofel> I'm on natty right now
[09:09] <bambee> without this gpg-agent I cannot sign any dsc ... arrff
[09:09] <bambee> however I can use debsign by hand...
[09:09] <yofel> bambee: run 'eval $(gpg-agent --daemon)' in your shell, you can use the agent in that shell then
[09:09]  * bambee checks
[09:10] <bambee> yofel: already tested
[09:10] <bambee> pinentry crashes :D
[09:10] <yofel> huh? not here o.O
[09:10] <yofel> then again, I'm using pinentry-curses
[09:12] <bambee> "Enter passphrase: gpg: problem with the agent - disabling agent use"
[09:12] <yofel> bah
[09:12] <yofel> uh, wait, that usually means GPG_AGENT_INFO isn't set
[09:13] <bambee> it's set :)
[09:13] <yofel> :(
[09:13] <yofel> anyway, since you did workspace I'll blame you for breaking kdm :P
[09:13] <bambee> what's the problem with kdm?
[09:14] <bambee> :p
[09:14] <yofel> bambee: kdm is responsible for loading the xsession stuff I beliee
[09:14]  * yofel needs to fix his v button -.-
[09:14] <bambee> are you sure, it's kdm?
[09:15] <bambee> it could be a syntax error in a script loaded by kdm :)
[09:15] <yofel> from /etc/kde4/kdm/Xsession:
[09:15] <yofel> # invoke global X session script
[09:15] <yofel> . /etc/X11/Xsession
[09:15] <yofel> (natty)
[09:16] <bambee> right
[09:16] <yofel> that's in oneiric too?
[09:16] <yofel> I don' think /etc/X11/Xsession was renamed
[09:18] <yofel> anyway, time up, will debug this once I get home and resotred O from backup
[09:18] <yofel> *restored
[09:18] <bambee> there is no . /etc/X11/Xsession :D
[09:19] <yofel> see bug found. now re-read your bzr diff
[09:20] <yofel> probably a dropped patch or so (I hope)
[09:34] <shadeslayer> ScottK: is there a page which states the exact requirements for a package to enter the ubuntu archives?
[09:34] <shadeslayer> the best i could find was https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Basic#Copyright
[09:35] <bambee> yofel: could you paste your /etc/kde4/kdm/Xsession ?
[09:35] <bambee> please
[09:35] <bambee> (from natty)
[09:40]  * yofel goes ignoring the prof
[09:40] <yofel> bambee: found it, please revert http://paste.kde.org/94765
[10:09] <debfx> I'm working on a kubuntu build status page: http://felix.fobos.de/kubuntu/kubuntu-buildstatus.htm
[10:16] <bambee> yofel: whet did you get this patch?
[10:20] <bambee> (I am not talking about genkdmconfig.diff but about the patch pasted via paste.kde.org)
[10:20] <yofel> bambee: *that* is from  kde-workspace $ bzr diff -r 506..510
[10:20] <bambee> ok
[10:22] <debfx> bambee: are you working on kdeutils?
[10:22] <bambee> debfx: it's done, but I cannot sign my packages (gpg-agent does not work)
[10:22] <bambee> :(
[10:22] <debfx> why do you need to sign the package?
[10:23] <bambee> to push it into kubuntu-ninjas/ppa ?
[10:23] <yofel> if you didn't change the source just put it in bzr
[10:23] <debfx> ah, no need to do that, i'll just upload it to the archive
[10:25] <bambee> oh
[10:25] <bambee> ok
[10:25] <bambee> pushed into bzr
[10:26] <yofel> debfx: incredibly useful page, more useful than kde-sc-build-status from kubuntu-dev-tools :D
[10:26] <bambee> debfx: see https://code.launchpad.net/~bambi/kubuntu-packaging/kdeutils/+merge/67523
[10:27] <debfx> bambee: thanks
[10:27] <bambee> sorry for the delay, but I try to solve some stranges behaviours on my system :)
[10:28] <debfx> yofel: I think I need to implement some kind of caching as I have to download and grep all build logs to identify symbol issues ^^
[10:28] <yofel> well, you could check if there's a new version published, if not -> don't fetch log
[10:29] <yofel> don't remember if there are publish timestamps or if you need to cache the versions you fetched
[10:30] <yofel> I need to figure out how to cronjob the updating of the neon wiki page too, I think hugday has some example code how to update moinmoin page from scripts
[10:30] <debfx> yes, but currently I don't have a database at all
[10:31]  * yofel looks at lplib api docs
[10:33] <debfx> also we need a tool that fetches the build logs for all archs and pipes them to pkgkde-symbolshelper
[10:33] <shadeslayer> uhm, why not have a look at how http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs was made?
[10:33] <shadeslayer> http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs/source/
[10:33] <shadeslayer> we could probably mod that to suit our needs
[10:34] <yofel> debfx: we have a fetch_buildlogs script in neon, but for the PPA. You can reuse some code maybe
[10:35] <debfx> shadeslayer: it doesn't use a database either
[10:36] <shadeslayer> any particular reason we need that?
[10:36] <yofel> debfx: since you need to upload the package yourself anyway I don't believe there's a point in auto-updating symbolfiles. If we have a script to fetch buildlogs running pkgkde-symbolshelper batchpatch is easy
[10:37] <yofel> or well, you could script that
[10:38] <debfx> shadeslayer: need what?
[10:38] <shadeslayer> debfx: need a database
[10:39] <shadeslayer> why not just script the entire page using lplib and python?
[10:39] <debfx> yofel: you still need to run symbolshelper four times and select the build log
[10:39] <debfx> shadeslayer: for caching
[10:39] <shadeslayer> oh ...
[10:39] <shadeslayer> -> web dev n00b
[10:42] <yofel> debfx: for fetching from launchpad you could check source_package.date_published, which goes into milliseconds if you remember the last time you updated the page
[10:43] <yofel> or rather binary_package.date_published
[10:44]  * yofel curses his connection
[10:46] <debfx> using the version should be enough
[10:46] <yofel> sure, but like this you don't have to cache the last version you fetched
[10:46] <yofel> hm, you have that probably anyway
[10:47] <debfx> shadeslayer: kdegames has missing files: /usr/share/kde4/apps/kajongg/player.py and /usr/share/kde4/apps/kajongg/tree.py
[10:47] <debfx> I'll add them to the install file
[10:48] <shadeslayer> please do, i'm a bit busy this week owing to GSoC
[10:48] <shadeslayer> will finish up kate today tho
[11:20] <bambee> yofel: https://code.launchpad.net/~bambi/kubuntu-packaging/kde-workspace/+merge/67683
[11:21] <bambee> it's not UNRELEASED because this fix must be pushed into archives :)
[11:23] <bambee> (see the patch itself to be sure, the diff is not really explicit)
[11:23] <yofel> hm, kdemultimedia is marked as 'not in bzr' but it does seem to be in bzr
[11:24] <yofel> bambee: you misunderstood that, it's UNRELEASED. The person that *uploads* it changes that
[11:24] <yofel> if it's not unreleased people will think it's already uploaded
[11:25] <yofel> bambee: and the patch builds fine like that?
[11:25]  * yofel does a testbuild anyway
[11:31] <yofel> k, seems fine to me
[11:32] <yofel> hm, whoever uploaded workspace didn't fix the changelog
[11:34] <CIA-52> [lp:~kubuntu-packagers/kubuntu-packaging/kde-workspace] Philip Muškovac * 511 * debian/ (changelog patches/genkdmconf.diff) * Merge branch lp:~bambi/kubuntu-packaging/kde-workspace
[11:45] <debfx> bambee: what's the status of kdeplasma-addons?
[11:51] <bambee> yofel: thanks
[11:51] <bambee> debfx: there are missing files , right?
[11:51] <bambee> debfx: fixing
[11:52] <debfx> I haven't looked at it
[11:53] <yofel> there are 3 themes in list-missing
[12:10] <shadeslayer> feel free to jump in : http://lists.kde.org/?l=kde-licensing&m=131047220826396&w=2
[12:19] <yofel> shadeslayer: tell him we want some thanks for fixing most of that :P
[12:20] <shadeslayer> yofel: i did mention that in the second email
[12:20] <shadeslayer> yofel: http://lists.kde.org/?l=kde-doc-english&m=131046472217373&w=2
[12:20] <shadeslayer> <3 the new qtcreator
[12:21] <yofel> ah true, that threaded behaviour is odd :/
[12:24] <shadeslayer> \o/ http://i.imgur.com/Qra5F.png
[12:26] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: new?
[12:27] <apachelogger> also your colors are broken
[12:27] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: qtcreator-2.2.81
[12:27] <shadeslayer> nah, they were broken earlier, i fixed the
[12:27] <shadeslayer> s/the/them/
[12:27] <kubotu> shadeslayer meant: "nah, themy were broken earlier, i fixed the"
[12:27] <yofel> nice, does it haz vi input mode? :P
[12:27] <shadeslayer> . . .
[12:27] <shadeslayer> yofel: yes
[12:27] <yofel> oh, cool :D
[12:28] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: so what is the newness?
[12:28]  * apachelogger is on 2.3 for like ages
[12:29] <shadeslayer> i was on whatever is in the archives for a couple of weeks
[12:29] <shadeslayer> the last time i tried 2.2.x it kept crashing in neon
[12:29] <apachelogger> probably a neon bug
[12:30] <apachelogger> the only thing that does not work for me is qmldump
[12:30] <apachelogger> well, it works technically, but only sometimes and it complains eitherway
[12:30] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: yeah, what is that anyway?
[12:30] <apachelogger> dumps qml type info from cpp
[12:30] <apachelogger> to use in the code model for autocompletion and in the qml designer
[12:31] <shadeslayer> wait what
[12:31] <shadeslayer> sounds funky
[12:31] <apachelogger> it requires private headers ^^
[12:31] <shadeslayer> i need to figure out whats the best way to access dbus interfaces using QML
[12:31] <apachelogger> all fun
[12:31] <apachelogger> so
[12:31] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: did you sees my meego video player?
[12:31] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: yus
[12:31] <apachelogger> also I broke me panda and I am not quite sure how
[12:32] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: can it play 720p ?
[12:32] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: already? :O
[12:32] <apachelogger> yus
[12:32] <apachelogger> perhaps the image is put
[12:32] <shadeslayer> you could probably RMA i
[12:32] <shadeslayer> *it
[12:34] <apachelogger> perhaps
[12:34]  * apachelogger wonders how to turn on verbose booting
[12:41] <yofel> apachelogger: where? kernel or upstart? (or panda?)
[12:45] <apachelogger> all of it
[12:45] <apachelogger> actually verbose kernel would help
[12:45] <shadeslayer> remove silent from boot args?
[12:46] <apachelogger> it uncompresses and then boots the kernel
[12:46] <shadeslayer> but i guess you already dud that
[12:46] <apachelogger> from there on I see nothing on rs232
[12:46] <shadeslayer> *did
[12:46] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: no such bootarg
[12:46] <apachelogger> also adding verbose to what seemed to be the bootargs did not do bonkers
[12:46] <apachelogger> perhaps the cmdline is compiled in *shrug*
[12:51] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: from what i can see on the ML, you can set bootargs
[12:51] <apachelogger> url?
[12:51] <shadeslayer> aha
[12:52] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: boot args are in /proc/cmdline
[12:52] <shadeslayer> can you edit that?
[12:54]  * apachelogger blinks
[12:54] <apachelogger> dude
[12:54] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: http://groups.google.com/group/pandaboard/browse_thread/thread/b87aa302a38b8678/1fd4949a44315096?lnk=gst&q=heat+sink
[12:54] <apachelogger> srsly
[12:54] <apachelogger> stop doing that to me
[12:54] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: does you haz ubuntu monospace font?
[12:54] <shadeslayer> um ... dunno
[12:54] <shadeslayer> unless the package was automatically updated, no
[12:56] <shadeslayer> heh : http://i.imgur.com/PmhDO.png
[12:56] <shadeslayer> talk about geometry in systemsettings
[12:56] <apachelogger> geometry?
[12:57] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: don't have monospace you-boon-too fonts
[12:57] <apachelogger> it happens
[12:57] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: http://groups.google.com/group/pandaboard/browse_thread/thread/553aa56ee1692b3e << this one talks about bootargs as well
[12:58] <apachelogger> good thing they are very open
[13:04] <apachelogger> I really do not get this
[13:04] <apachelogger> also I have too many cards
[13:04] <apachelogger> G
[13:04] <apachelogger> G+
[13:05] <apachelogger> I get the feeling it fails to bring up me display
[13:06] <apachelogger> no idea why that could be
[13:09] <ScottK> yofel: If that works, then I'd say we should get it in as a work around.
[13:10] <ScottK> shadeslayer: AFAIK there is not.  What's the question?
[13:10] <yofel> right, give me a moment to add a comment
[13:11] <shadeslayer> ScottK: http://lists.kde.org/?t=131046146600007&r=1&w=2
[13:15] <ScottK> shadeslayer: Without a license, they aren't distributable, so without a copy of the FDL, the FDL bits aren't distributable.  There's nothing uncertain about it.  External pointers that may change don't count.
[13:15] <ScottK> If they want relicense all the docs as GPL (with permission from the authors) then they don't need it.
[13:15] <shadeslayer> ScottK: right, but i just wanted to add some docs which state our policy
[13:16] <ScottK> It's not a question of policy, but legality.
[13:16] <CIA-52> [lp:~kubuntu-packagers/kubuntu-packaging/libkdcraw] Philip Muškovac * 7 * debian/rules document what the workaround is for
[13:17] <shadeslayer> ok, either way, this has caught their attention, and the thread might move to kde-core-devel
[13:20] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: what is the status of kate?
[13:20] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: still WIP, needs more splitting
[13:20] <shadeslayer> and then symbols etc for the new libs
[13:21] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: a bit busy with GSoC for the next few days, so its going to take a bit
[13:21] <shadeslayer> my code is ugly/dirty
[13:21] <apachelogger> ah, make up for lazyness
[13:21] <apachelogger> I see
[13:21] <apachelogger> might be a suspicious right before midterm :P
[13:22] <shadeslayer> actually, its just dirty, it works (TM)
[13:22] <shadeslayer> need to fix var naming and other minor things
[13:33] <ScottK> shadeslayer: http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-howto.html
[13:34] <ScottK> "You should also include a copy of the license itself somewhere in the distribution of your program. "
[13:34] <apachelogger> well, should
[13:34] <apachelogger> FDL actually is more explicit about this IIRC
[13:34] <apachelogger> for FDL you really must
[13:39] <shadeslayer> heh, in that case we need to discuss this on kde-core-devel
[13:46] <apachelogger> what is there to discuss?
[13:46] <apachelogger> either it is properly licensed or it is not
[13:46]  * yofel wonders why nobody except us cares about this...
[13:53] <apachelogger> yofel: cuz it is a flipping pita
[13:53] <yofel> it sure is...
[13:57] <Riddell> adding licences isn't hard to fix for those who have kde commit access though
[13:58] <yofel> true, but if that wouldn't include most of us here it would be HELL
[13:58] <ScottK> This reminds me ....
[13:59] <ScottK> I wasn't very good about checking for Messages.sh in the split tarballs.
[13:59] <ScottK> We should watch for that in rc2 and fix them if it's missing.
[14:00] <yofel> ScottK: can you upload libkdcraw? so it's off the list for now
[14:00] <ScottK> yofel: It's in bzr?
[14:00] <yofel> yes
[14:00] <ScottK> I'll have a look.
[14:02] <ScottK> yofel: We only want that flag on armel.
[14:02]  * ScottK will fix
[14:02] <yofel> oops, right, thanks
[14:14] <Tm_T> yofel: if you have time and interest herding the support channel for some time, please do
[14:16] <ScottK> yofel: Done.  Thank you for your contribution to Kubuntu.
[14:19] <dantti> does someone knows how I can force an installation to pick the or depends? like I don't want apache and I have another http server but I thought it would pick automatically but seems it doesn't..
[14:20] <ScottK> If there is an or depends and it's already installed, it shouldn't pull in apache.
[14:21] <dantti> hmm weird... then
[14:21] <dantti> it's the mantis package on lucid and I already have nginx installed
[14:32] <Riddell> ngnix doesn't provide httpd
[14:32] <dantti> but httpd provide ngingx
[14:34] <tsimpson> nginx Provides: httpd in lucid
[14:37] <bambee> debfx: https://code.launchpad.net/~bambi/kubuntu-packaging/kdeplasma-addons/+merge/67711
[14:37] <bambee> ;)
[14:45] <yofel> that looks about right if there were no symbol updates
[14:45] <bambee> kubuntu-devs:  Can someone push lp:~kubuntu-packagers/kubuntu-packaging/kde-workspace (the last fix) into archives ?
[14:45] <bambee> it fixes an important (and STUPID) bug :)
[14:46] <yofel> bambee: already in
[14:46] <bambee> yofel: lovely
[14:46] <yofel> thank debfx ;)
[14:46] <bambee> :D
[14:49] <ScottK> yofel: Win: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libkdcraw/4:4.6.90+repack1-0ubuntu2/+build/2622041
[14:51] <yofel> :D
[15:08] <ScottK> Riddell: With your upstream KDE licensing police hat on, I'd like to bring http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=277370 to your attention.  Seems a bit dodgy.
[15:08] <Riddell> ICM stuff is always evil for licencing
[15:08] <Riddell> I think it's what stops java being properly free
[15:11] <ScottK> The files have been there since ~2007 so I didn't block it from New here, but it ought to get a proper resolution upstream.
[15:12] <Riddell> krita/data/profiles/README seems OK
[15:13] <ScottK> profiles/srgb-d65.icm seems to be likely problematic.
[15:14] <ScottK> Copyright (c) 1998 Hewlett-Packard Company, no license, and the upstream comment is that one can download copies that are 'similar'
[15:23] <Riddell> that file is shipped with Windows
[15:24] <ScottK> Lovely.
[15:29] <Riddell> add the README from krita and remove that file should do it
[15:29] <Riddell> I'll comment on the bug
[16:12] <apachelogger> my oxygen is leaking memory
[16:18] <ScottK> apachelogger: Better than the reverse
[16:21] <apachelogger> perhaps
[16:27] <apachelogger> haha
[16:27] <apachelogger> lol
[16:27] <apachelogger> kmix with pulse is rather awful
[16:27] <apachelogger> on amarok track changes it recreates the complete slider
[16:27] <apachelogger> whats more... it does that even when minimized to try
[16:27] <apachelogger> and people wonder where their battery goes
[16:39] <debfx> yofel: do you have an idea how I can get the build log of a package that has been copied over from the last release?
[16:39] <debfx> archive.getPublishedSources(...)[0].getBuilds() doesn't have any entries in that case
[16:46] <yofel> debfx: no idea :/
[16:51] <mfraz74> Are there any plans to put Amarok 2.4.2 in one of the Natty PPAs?
[18:08] <apachelogger> anyone around?
[18:08] <apachelogger> hello hello
[18:08] <apachelogger> omg
[18:10]  * charlie-tca is here, for what it is worth
[18:20]  * micahg waves to apachelogger
[18:27] <apachelogger> charlie-tca, micahg: are you by any chance running amarok and kmix?
[18:27] <apachelogger> ah
[18:27] <apachelogger> nvm
[18:28] <charlie-tca> no
[18:34] <debfx> yofel: kdebase-bin needs to be transitional package as it has quite a few rdepends
[19:02] <CIA-52> [kmix] sitter * 1241346 * trunk/KDE/kdemultimedia/kmix/backends/mixer_pulse.cpp (log message trimmed)
[19:02] <CIA-52> Do not emit signals directly but queue invokeMethod them to resolve a memleak in
[19:02] <CIA-52> KMix/Oxygen caused by PA callbacks. Oxygen internally uses deleteLater to remove
[19:02] <apachelogger> debfx, yofel, ScottK: ^ please get that backported to at least natty
[19:05] <ScottK-droid> apachelogger: Need a lp bug with test case.
[19:05] <CIA-52> [kmix] sitter * 1241347 * branches/KDE/4.7/kdemultimedia/kmix/backends/mixer_pulse.cpp backport r1241346 Resolving a memleak in KMix/Oxygen caused by PA callbacks.
[19:05] <apachelogger> ScottK-droid: amarok + kmix -> swtich tracks -> watch ksysguard report increasing memusage
[19:05] <apachelogger> stopping/playing also works
[19:05] <apachelogger> also one sees the leak after like 5 tracks already
[19:07] <ScottK-droid> Someone files the bug, I'll do the sru.
[19:28] <Quintasan> yofel: ping
[19:35] <Quintasan> brr
[19:38] <yofel_> debfx: k, I'll add it back
[19:38] <Quintasan> yofel_: brb shopping, libkdcraw still needs uploading?
[19:38] <yofel_> Quintasan: pong
[19:38] <yofel_> nope, done
[19:38]  * Quintasan marks as done
[19:39] <yofel> someone could upload cantor, doesn't look like it's going to be fixed anytime soon
[19:39] <yofel> so upload with the backends that are built
[19:39]  * Quintasan leaves kdemultimedia testbuilds and goes to shop
[19:40] <yofel> Quintasan: I did a testbuild of multimedia earlier, fine except some new symbols which I put into bzr
[19:40] <Quintasan> yofel: Good. One more testbuild before upload won't hurt :P
[19:40] <yofel> .9
[19:40] <yofel> bah
[19:40] <yofel> :)
[19:43] <Quintasan> yofel: I'm getting missing symbols on i386...
[19:44] <yofel> fun
[19:44] <Quintasan> http://paste.kde.org/95143
[19:44] <yofel> IIRC there was a package that had symbols on i386 that weren't on amd64 too
[19:45] <yofel> Quintasan: is that pbuilder up-to-date? meaning: really synced with archive toolchain
[19:45]  * Quintasan updates
[19:46] <Quintasan> oh
[19:46] <Quintasan> gcc updates
[19:46] <yofel> the *D0Ev@Base etc. symbols seem to be a recent addition
[19:46] <Quintasan> K, gotta run to shop if I want to buy something
[19:47] <yofel> sure
[19:56] <_Groo_> hi/2 all
[19:56] <_Groo_> apachelogger: ping
[19:57] <_Groo_> apachelogger: are you there m8?
[20:08] <_Groo_> anyone alive?
[20:11] <_Groo_> apachelogger: ping
[20:12] <yofel> he made the emprie of phonon so large that he's now lost in the hallways
[20:13] <_Groo_> yofel: yeah its about phonon, more precisely the gstreamer backend i want to talk with him about
[20:13] <_Groo_> does he mantains the dragon player too?
[20:13] <_Groo_> or thats kde multimedia guys?
[20:13] <yofel> well, he should get back eventually
[20:13] <_Groo_> he prolly went out to get booze
[20:13] <yofel> no idea, although I think he occupied kdemultimedia in rhonda
[20:14] <yofel> so he should own that too now
[20:14] <_Groo_> yofel: k
[20:15] <debfx> ScottK-droid: kdegraphics-thumbnailers is NEW
[20:16] <ScottK-droid> K. Will look when I get home.
[20:16] <debfx> thanks
[20:18] <debfx> why do we install kdegraphics-strigi-plugins by default? the pdf support for strigi?
[20:27] <debfx> hm I think it doesn't even provide that
[20:28] <debfx> Riddell: do you remember why kdegraphics-strigi-plugins is in the desktop seed?
[20:28] <Quintasan> yofel: K, no missing symbols now
[20:28] <Quintasan> yofel: reviewing and uploading
[20:29] <Quintasan> oh wait
[20:29] <Quintasan> why review
[20:29] <Quintasan> that did not change at all
[20:30] <yofel> you did that, I just added some symbols
[20:30] <Quintasan> I know
[20:30] <Quintasan> hmm
[20:31] <Quintasan> is there a specific term for "understanding what are you reading" in English?
[20:32] <yofel> a) I believe that should be "understanding what you are reading" b) no idea
[20:33] <Quintasan> Maybe ScottK knows ^
[20:33] <Quintasan> reading comprehension?
[20:33] <ScottK> reading comprehension is good
[20:34] <yofel> hm, sounds about right indeed
[20:35] <Quintasan> So, I read the changelog proactively trying to understand what it says instead of just looking at it
[20:35] <Quintasan> kdemultimedia uploaded
[20:51] <ScottK> debfx: Is kdegraphics-thumbnailers new for 4.7?
[20:51] <ScottK> I'm trying to figure out if the source was previously in Main or not.
[20:54] <debfx> ScottK: the files were in kdegraphics-strigi-plugins
[20:54] <ScottK> debfx: Thanks.
[20:55] <debfx> ScottK: imho we should just drop kdegraphics-strigi-plugins from the seeds and move it to universe
[20:55] <ScottK> debfx: I'll accept it into Main and then we can decide that later.  That way if we want it, it's easier to keep.
[20:56] <debfx> libkipi_4.6.90+repack-0ubuntu2_source.changes rejected *sigh*
[20:56] <debfx> ScottK: could you sponsor that?
[20:56] <ScottK> SUre.
[20:57] <ScottK> thumbnailers source accepted.
[20:59] <ScottK> debfx: All the libkipi changes aren't in debian/changelog.  I'm not going to fix it, but I think that it's better to be more verbose.
[21:00] <ScottK> debfx: Uploaded.
[21:17] <yofel> debfx: we need to drop that anyway since it's a transitional package for kdegraphics-strigi-analyzer and kdegraphics-thumbnailers
[21:18] <yofel> put both of them in universe? (if yes, meta-kde needs an update)
[21:18] <yofel> I'm not sure if we should really drop the strigi-analyzer
[21:19] <debfx> yofel: it only provides support for dvi and tiff
[21:20] <yofel> well, ok then
[21:20] <yofel> we need a better plugin system :/
[21:23] <debfx> plugin system for what?
[21:23] <yofel> how are people supposed to know that you can install the packages?
[21:23] <_Groo_> join #calligra
[21:24]  * yofel hands _Groo_ a slash
[21:24]  * _Groo_ cuts himself :P
[21:25] <yofel> shadeslayer: talked to upstream re gwenview docs?
[21:25] <yofel> if not I'll file a bug
[21:25] <_Groo_> my personal calligra packages are starting to achieve stable status :D
[21:25] <_Groo_> i build calligra for natty once a week, waiting for the next beta/rc
[21:26] <_Groo_> so ill just have to upload them staging for your guys pleasure and amusement
[21:26] <yofel> _Groo_: good, then make the alpha3 into something that can be considered for some PPA ;)
[21:26] <_Groo_> yofel: well i didnt upload it yet, cause quitte frankly there are not quitte there yet
[21:26] <_Groo_> crashes are rare now
[21:26] <_Groo_> but is still has a lot of missing stuff
[21:27] <_Groo_> like flow is missing the connect shapes engine... or at least the funcionality
[21:27] <_Groo_> but its getting there
[21:27] <_Groo_> and it will rock when it goes gold.. i love it already
[21:27] <_Groo_> very fast, very feature rich... really good indeed
[21:37] <CIA-52> [lp:~kubuntu-packagers/kubuntu-packaging/kde-baseapps] Philip Muškovac * 179 * debian/ (changelog control) Add transitional package for kdebase-bin since many packages still depend on it
[21:37] <yofel> debfx: ^
[21:39] <Riddell> debfx: why shouldn't kdegraphics-strigi-plugins be in the desktop seed?
[21:39] <yofel> Riddell: for one it's a transitional package, and I'm not sure we need the 2 packages that replace it in there either
[21:40] <debfx> Riddell: it might be unneeded functionality for the default installation
[21:40] <debfx> yofel: thanks
[21:40] <yofel> debfx: I'll do a ppa upload first to check if something else has unverioned breaks against it
[21:41] <yofel> *unversioned
[21:41] <Riddell> if it's a transitional package then it should be replaced with whatever the new packages are
[21:41] <Riddell> and indeed you could argue it's not needed at all since we don't have strigi on by default
[21:41] <Riddell> although I've had strigi on by default for a while and it doesn't get in my way
[21:43]  * yofel checks what's up with kdevelop
[21:45] <debfx> Riddell: it's not about strigi in general, that package only provides plugins for dvi, tiff and mobipocket
[21:46] <Riddell> debfx: yep.  I wonder what mobipocket is
[21:49] <Riddell> well remove it from the seed if you don't like it
[22:01] <ScottK> kdegraphics-thumbnailers binaries accepted.
[22:06] <yofel> shadeslayer: no idea how you got kdevelop to build, either your pbuilder is fooey or I'll blame new cmake. Fails on both i386 and amd64 for me
[22:08] <debfx> apachelogger: any progress with the mobipocket package?
[22:57] <apachelogger> debfx: yesterday also was phonon day, so will be today
[22:57] <apachelogger> most likely, except that I'll probably do linaro sd card image for freescale QSB so that jussi gets happier
[22:59] <yofel> debfx: kdebase-bin installs fine, so feel free to upload
[23:01] <yofel> shadeslayer: see my change to kevelop, and ask upstream about some proper 4.7 support
[23:01]  * yofel is off to bed, good night


[20:22] <damjan> www.google.com
[20:22] <damjan> `www.google.com`
[20:22] <damjan> (www.google.com)
[20:22] <damjan> "www.google.com"
[20:22] <damjan> http://example.com/`
[20:22] <damjan> http://example.com/`xyz
[20:23] <damjan> text (http://example.com/)xyz
[20:24] <damjan> text (http://example.com/abc(mnb)xyz
[21:33]  * damjan tests ACTION messages  with some links <http://example.com/abc(mnb)xyz>
[22:54] <damjan> fixed most of it https://github.com/gdamjan/irclog-couchapp/tree/elm
[22:56] <damjan> xyz
[22:58] <damjan> zyx
[23:41] <damjan> bre
[23:45] <damjan> !ping damjan
[23:45] <erlbot--> damjan is lagging 3 oranges
[23:58] <damjan> lala
[23:59]  * damjan bla lada
[23:59]  * damjan bla lada bla


[02:45] <Brad777> Hello everyone I am having some trouble... http://paste.ubuntu.com/138671/ is the error message... it was working fine yesterday and the only thing that has changed since then is that i turned off the computer
[02:46] <Brad777> i've googled but found no solution
[02:56] <n2diy> Brad777: what kind of video card?
[02:57] <Brad777> n2diy, NVIDIA9800GTX+ Superclocked edition
[02:57] <Brad777> using the 180.2x driver
[02:58] <n2diy> Brad777: I suspected a Nvidia, have you googled the card and Ubuntu? Or maybe someone in #ubuntu could help? GL
[03:03] <Brad777> n2diy, well i was confused because i've never had trouble b4
[04:31] <brandonban6> I feel xfce4-panel is really frustrating to work with. I would like to create a launcher, and the be able to move that launcher where ever I want to. I find I am unable to do that, is there another where to add items to the panel?
[04:39] <rocko> hello
[04:39] <rocko> saluton
[04:40] <rocko> hallo
[04:40] <rocko> moin moin
[04:40] <rocko> hola
[04:40] <rocko> how are is everyone?
[04:40] <rocko> kiel vi fartas?
[04:40] <rocko> was ist los?
[04:41] <forces> saluton
[04:42] <rocko> cxu vi  spektas  la esperantan lingvon? forces
[04:42] <forces> xD
[04:42] <forces> hola
[04:42] <forces> español mjor
[04:42] <forces> mejor*
[04:42] <rocko> you majored in espanol ?
[04:46] <forces> rocko, habla español o ingles
[04:47] <rocko> I do not speak Spanish forces
[04:48] <rocko> just English and Esperanto
[04:48] <forces> english
[04:49] <rocko> in English we capitalized specific things
[04:50] <rocko> also entire acronyms
[04:50] <rocko> like GNU, LASER, FBI....etc
[04:50] <forces> im an english learning
[04:50] <forces> and i always practice my english here
[04:52] <rocko> I see interesting forces
[04:53] <rocko> I am learning English.
[04:53] <rocko> would be the correct way to say it
[04:55] <forces> :P
[05:06] <rocko> where you from forces ?
[05:20] <forces> rocko, El Salvador
[05:20] <rocko> o
[05:20] <rocko> I see
[05:21] <rocko> where is that ?
[05:22] <rocko> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_Salvador
[05:22] <rocko> cool stuff
[05:22] <rocko> so how is the weather there?
[05:22] <rocko> forces ^
[05:24] <rocko> http://www.newint.org/features/2005/12/01/el-salvador-guerilla.jpg
[05:24] <rocko> crazy stuff
[05:25] <rocko> http://www.newint.org/features/2005/12/01/el-salvador-guerilla.jpg
[05:25] <rocko> whoops
[05:25] <rocko> A young guerilla cradles her automatic rifle a year before the end of El Salvador’s civil war in 1992. Photo: Martin Adler / Panos Pictures Photo: Martin Adler / Panos Pictures
[06:44] <linux> hey, I just installed xubuntu, how do I make it where I don't have to login on startup?
[06:46] <tavasti> linux, see http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=221302
[06:46] <tavasti> btw, your nick is not very suitable for newbie
[06:57] <freego> xubuntu 9.04 beta is now avaible
[06:57] <freego> you can testing if you want
[06:57] <freego> you can help and report bugs
[08:19] <goodbyeWindows> hi all
[08:20] <goodbyeWindows> just a newie here, installed xubuntu, looks nice, seem to find my way around ok..just finding it weird that my Ethernet doesn't seem to work properly. It's just a Marvell Yukon, nothing special. Any ideas?
[08:23] <dingding> somebody here?
[08:23] <ikonia> dingding: not here
[08:23] <ikonia> dingding: don't start again
[08:23] <ikonia> dingding: you're using ubuntu - this is for xubuntu support
[08:23] <dingding> im not starting again
[14:41] <steveccc> hi all - is there anyone here who used to be a sole gnome user who switched to xubuntu - i am interested to know any things that annoyed you and things that pleased you and generally your thoughts
[14:48] <TheSheep> windowmaker users don't count? :)
[14:48] <tavasti> and what about fvwm users?
[14:48] <steveccc> thesheep: is that directed to me?
[14:49] <kahrn> steveccc, I use gnome on my desktop and xfce on my laptop. XFCE just seems to be a little.. I dunno.. cleaner
[14:50] <kahrn> and I'm loving the xubuntu login screen in 9.04 beta
[14:50] <steveccc> i just wondered if it was a little raw and unpolished.  I havent used it for years but do fancy putting it on my laptop for sheer speed but thats why i was asking others opinions
[14:50] <genii> xfce needs a better menu editor
[14:50] <steveccc> kahrn: is the look and feel much different in 9.04
[14:51] <kahrn> hmm
[14:51] <kahrn> not amazingly different, but the login screen is
[14:52] <vinnl> That "cleaner" thing is exactly what I feel :)
[14:52] <charlie-tca> menu editor is coming in Xfce 4.8
[14:52] <vinnl> \o/
[14:52] <kahrn> also, I don't use xubuntu for speed
[14:53] <kahrn> I'm running a pentium M with 1.4ghz or so of power, but the differences between gnome and xfce tend to be negligible once you have all the services you require running, etc
[14:53] <vinnl> See http://gezeiten.org/post/2009/03/libxfce4menu-to-to-be-renamed-to-gdesktopmenu as for the menu editor :)
[14:55] <tomsdale> hi - I don't have xubuntu in front of me but need to help someone on the phone.
[14:55] <tomsdale> How can I change the keyboardlayout in xubuntu 8.10
[14:56] <sdf2> %alsa
[14:56] <sdf2> !alsa
[14:56] <J_Litewski> tomsdale, it should be in the settings manager
[14:57] <vinnl> tomsdale, in the Settings Manager, click "Keyboard", then the Layouts tab
[14:57] <sdf2> any clue how can i setup my mic in xubuntu 8.10?
[14:58] <J_Litewski> speaking of keyboards, does xubuntu still support the FN key for laptops?
[14:58] <sdf2> in ubuntu i have pulseaudio
[14:58] <tomsdale> c'est beau
[14:58] <vinnl> J_Litewski, last time I checked it did :)
[14:58] <tomsdale> thx, J_Litewski, vinnl. she found it.
[14:58] <vinnl> Which was with the next version that is yet to be released :P
[14:58] <J_Litewski> hmmm, it seems that it it doesn't work for the xfce-mixer then
[14:59] <vinnl> sdf2, I believe you can use Pulseaudio in Xubuntu as well
[14:59] <vinnl> !pulseaudio
[14:59] <J_Litewski> nor the brightness setings
[14:59] <sdf2> i don't wanna use it
[14:59] <vinnl> J_Litewski, well, it did for me... Which version are you using?
[14:59] <sdf2> i wanna use simple alsa in xubuntu
[14:59] <J_Litewski> right now, 9.04 Beta
[14:59] <J_Litewski> since 8.10 had some stability issues with my laptop
[15:00] <vinnl> Well, that one should definitely support it
[15:00] <J_Litewski> no go here then
[15:00] <vinnl> :(
[15:00] <J_Litewski> filing a bug report
[15:01] <sdf2> in alsamixer i set everyting to max in the capture tab
[15:01] <sdf2> and the audio recorder still doesn't recognize my mic
[15:01] <J_Litewski> also, when did launchpad bugs become private only?
[15:01] <charlie-tca> !mic
[15:01] <J_Litewski> i filed a bug yesterday about the gnmoe-app-install bug, and it got linked to a bug i can't view
[15:02] <J_Litewski> *gnome-app-install
[15:02] <charlie-tca> sdf2: Make sure the mic is turned on and the volume is turned up for it in the volume control.
[15:03] <charlie-tca> J_Litewski: when they are filed with apport
[15:03] <J_Litewski> ah
[15:03] <charlie-tca> Until a member of bugcontrol or apport team releases it
[15:03] <sdf2> i turned on my mic, and set everything to max in the alsamixer for capture
[15:07] <sdf2> can i set somehow whats my default device
[15:07] <sdf2> for capture and for playback
[15:07] <sdf2> like in gnome?
[15:16] <jatt> how do I activate desktop effects with xubuntu?
[15:17] <vinnl> jatt, you mean the desktop effects that come with Xfce or those you also see in Ubuntu?
[15:18] <dingding> compiz will work in xubuntu?
[15:18] <jatt> like compiz in gnome
[15:18] <jatt> does xfce has  new desktop effects?
[15:18] <jatt> have
[15:18] <vinnl> dingding, yes it will
[15:18] <jatt> how do I activate it?
[15:18] <vinnl> jatt, yeah, a little more limited than Compiz but more stable
[15:18] <J_Litewski> whats a CIDSupplement?
[15:19] <jatt> in gnome you can select advanced desktop effects
[15:19] <vinnl> jatt, you can enable Xfce's effects under "Window Manager Tweaks" in the settings manager, "enable compositing or something"
[15:19] <jatt> ok I see
[15:19] <vinnl> jatt, for Compiz, I wrote a blog post on that, wait a sec
[15:19] <vinnl> (It happens to be the first result when you Google for "xubuntu compiz", btw :P)
[15:19] <jatt> compositor
[15:19] <jatt> they should call it compiz :)
[15:20] <vinnl> Here, shameless plug: http://xubuntublog.wordpress.com/2007/12/09/xubuntu-compiz-pretty-pretty-xubuntu/
[15:20] <vinnl> jatt, yeah that would _not_ be confusing :P
[15:20] <jatt> ok thanks
[15:20] <jatt> I will read it
[15:50] <sdf2> re
[15:50] <sdf2> mic is still not working any tisp?
[15:50] <sdf2> *tips?
[15:51] <J_Litewski> common sense question, is it plugged into the mic port?
[15:56] <J_Litewski> i can't test to see if I get the same problem sdf2, my laptop doesn't have a built in mic
[16:06] <sdf2> its not a laptop
[16:06] <sdf2> its my desktop pc
[16:06] <sdf2> its plugged in my soundcard
[16:06] <sdf2> and i can hear myself if i turn up amic
[16:06] <sdf2> i managed to make it work with ubuntu
[16:07] <sdf2> i use alsa now instead of pulseaudio
[16:07] <sdf2> i had pulseaudio when i had ubuntu installed
[16:07] <sdf2> i don't wanna install pulseaudio back
[16:07] <sdf2> is there a way i can set the default capturing device?
[16:08] <TheSheep> yes, each application has a setting for it
[16:09] <sdf2> !alsa
[16:09] <sdf2> change device(alsa mixer)
[16:09] <sdf2> where can i find it in xfce?
[16:09] <sdf2> or in terminal?
[16:10] <TheSheep> xfce doesn't have it
[16:10] <TheSheep> it doesn't do "one to rule them all" sound system, each application does it by itself
[16:11] <sdf2> aham
[16:11] <sdf2> i just opened up gnome-sound recorder
[16:11] <sdf2> which is installed basically
[16:11] <sdf2> i set capture to mic
[16:11] <sdf2> and it doesn't recognize any voice
[16:12] <TheSheep> well, gnome-sound-recorder will use the gnome settings, obviously
[16:12] <sdf2> i just installed xubuntu
[16:13] <TheSheep> sdf2: the xfce4-mixer doesn't show the mike as muted?
[16:13] <mestmagaer> xubuntu change resolution monitor
[16:14] <mestmagaer> i would put 1024x768 but is not available
[16:14] <TheSheep> xubuntu doesn't have a resolution monitor, and there are no plans to change it
[16:14] <TheSheep> no, wait
[16:15] <sdf2> TheSheep: xfce4-mixer shows no mute?
[16:15] <sdf2> i just see the sliders
[16:15] <TheSheep> sdf2: and they are not at the bottom for the mike?
[16:15] <sdf2> nop
[16:15] <sdf2> i made it to the max
[16:15] <TheSheep> sdf2: if you go to options, does it show more than one device?
[16:16] <TheSheep> file->options
[16:16] <sdf2> TheSheep: i set pcm to max, now mic is recognizing, but its capturing my output sound
[16:17] <TheSheep> sdf2: set mic boost to something higher
[16:17] <TheSheep> sdf2: also, make sure to select the microphone in the 'input source'
[16:17] <TheSheep> you can enable that control in options if it's not displayed
[16:18] <sdf2> i selected mci1 in xfce4-mixer
[16:18] <sdf2> it was on mic1 in gnomemixer too with this pc
[16:18] <sdf2> in gnome recorder i set it to microphone
[16:18] <sdf2> the input
[16:18] <sdf2> but its recording the video i play
[16:18] <sdf2> i turned on mic boost
[16:18] <sdf2> same
[16:19] <TheSheep> maybe try alsamixer in terminal :/
[16:19] <TheSheep> it might show more controls
[16:19] <sdf2> the first was i tried
[16:19] <sdf2> i try again
[16:19] <sdf2> btw what is PCM?
[16:20] <TheSheep> sdf2: the main output channel
[16:20] <sdf2> if its at max it records my output otherwise nothing :S
[16:20] <sdf2> it looks like no mic is the default for capture
[16:21] <TheSheep> it looks to me more like the mic is working, just very quiet
[16:21] <TheSheep> so you don't hear it until you make output very loud
[16:21] <TheSheep> your microphone doesn't have any mute buttons?
[16:21] <sdf2> nop
[16:22] <sdf2> when i play a video
[16:22] <sdf2> soung recorder records the video's sound
[16:22] <TheSheep> hmm.. are the otehr options in the xfce4-mixer's 'input' control?
[16:23] <sdf2> what should i look for?
[16:23] <TheSheep> mic2 or anything, really -- it may be misnamed
[16:23] <TheSheep> the drivers sometimes guess channe lnames wrong
[16:24] <sdf2> if i set to mic1
[16:24] <sdf2> and i slide amic to max
[16:24] <sdf2> i can hear myself
[16:24] <sdf2> in the speakers
[16:25] <TheSheep> mestmagaer: probably your monitor is not detected properly. Try setting horizontal and vertical refresh rates in your xorg.conf
[16:26] <mestmagaer> mi xorg is this
[16:26] <sdf2> if i slide down PCM
[16:26] <TheSheep> mestmagaer: please don't paste to the channel
[16:26] <mestmagaer> Section "Device"
[16:26] <mestmagaer> 	Identifier	"Configured Video Device"
[16:26] <sdf2> its still recording from my output
[16:26] <mestmagaer> EndSection
[16:26] <mestmagaer> Section "Monitor"
[16:26] <mestmagaer> 	Identifier	"Configured Monitor"
[16:26] <mestmagaer> EndSection
[16:27] <sdf2> somehow in the recorder program, even if i set it to mic, it still uses my pcm
[16:28] <TheSheep> I really don't know the gnome-sound-recorder
[16:28] <sdf2> anyhow i set it
[16:28] <sdf2> it still uses pcm for input
[16:28] <sdf2> i tried every 20 option
[16:28] <sdf2> for input device
[16:29] <sdf2> and the lol is, i muted everything in alsamixer for capture
[16:29] <sdf2> but not my mic
[16:31] <sdf2> lol
[16:31] <sdf2> now it says audio capture settings are invalid
[16:32] <sdf2> something died cause it doesn't even recognize my output for capture
[16:32] <TheSheep> there is no 'sound daemon' or anything
[16:32] <TheSheep> maybe some program is holding onto the device now?
[16:33] <sdf2> emm i turned pcm to top now its same again
[16:33] <sdf2> like i turn down pcm
[16:33] <sdf2> it can't record
[16:33] <sdf2> if its up
[16:33] <sdf2> it records from pcm
[16:33] <TheSheep> madness
[16:33] <sdf2> lmao
[16:34] <sdf2> i recorded some sound xD
[16:34] <TheSheep> how?
[16:34] <sdf2> madness
[16:34] <sdf2> i set analog mixer to max
[16:34] <TheSheep> so it confused channel names
[16:34] <sdf2> i know it must be max like with my previous linux isntall...
[16:34] <sdf2> but
[16:34] <sdf2> when i opened xfce4-columecontrol thing
[16:35] <sdf2> it was on mute
[16:35] <sdf2> -.-'
[16:35] <sdf2> i set it to max in alsamixer
[16:35] <sdf2> now i'm confused
[16:35] <sdf2> if i set sound recorder to master
[16:35] <sdf2> it still records from mic
[16:35] <sdf2> :D
[16:35] <sdf2> crazy
[16:36] <sdf2> now i turned down analog mixer in alsamixer
[16:36] <sdf2> for playback
[16:37] <sdf2> and its still working oO
[16:37] <sdf2> nor anymore
[16:37] <sdf2> *t
[16:38] <UKGent> j/ #xubuntu offtopic
[16:38] <sdf2> its bad again cry...
[16:38] <TheSheep> UKGent: with a dash and without the space in front
[16:39] <TheSheep> oh and it's /j
[16:39] <sdf2> linux need newbies like me too...
[16:39] <TheSheep> sdf2: linux needs newbies teh most
[16:39] <sdf2> or it never going to be used by more people
[16:39] <TheSheep> yup
[16:39] <sdf2> its really annoying, that its bad again :S
[16:39] <UKGent> lmao  you must think I am a right 'dumbass'   I like to say 'absent minded professor'  ...
[16:40] <TheSheep> UKGent: nah, I make typos all the time
[16:40]  * charlie-tca thinks more like "Got to do it right! even when it's wrong"
[16:40] <UKGent> TheSheep You are being too kind...
[16:41] <vinnl> You're still not in -offtopic ;-)
[16:41] <UKGent> Roll of drumbs - to be fair - I am working in another workspace on something else as well lol
[16:42] <sdf2> if i set recorder to microphone its not recording
[16:42] <sdf2> if i set to master
[16:42] <sdf2> its recording
[16:43] <TheSheep> sdf2: don't pay attention to the names, they are wrong obviously
[16:43] <sdf2> yes
[16:43] <TheSheep> sdf2: just find a combination that works
[16:43] <sdf2> that was my only problem...
[16:43] <sdf2> i set everything correctly and ...
[16:43] <sdf2> going nuts again cause just this little missnamed thing
[16:44] <TheSheep> include the make and model of your sound card in teh bug report
[16:44] <sdf2> where can i do this bugreport?
[16:44] <TheSheep> !bugs
[16:44] <sdf2> i should check the channel's topic
[16:45] <TheSheep> unfortunately you have to register :(
[16:45] <sdf2> i hate that i have to register everywhere :P
[16:46] <TheSheep> yeah
[16:46] <sdf2> but some bots can kill a forum/site in a sec
[16:46] <vinnl> Launchpad needs to become an OpenID client as well :)
[16:48] <charlie-tca> It is, isn't it. It used the same name and password for me as the wikis
[16:48] <vinnl> It's only a provider, AFAIK
[16:48] <vinnl> And the wiki is a client, I believe
[16:48] <vinnl> Thought it might be the case that it only allows LP-OpenID's
[16:48] <charlie-tca> Weird.
[16:49] <sdf2> emm
[16:49] <UKGent> I am making the first tentative steps towards daring to open a terminal and have a 'bash' at 'BASH'  So if I disappear for a few days... the worst has happened!
[16:49] <sdf2> no bug
[16:49] <sdf2> it was some glitch i think
[16:49] <sdf2> now its working with mic set for capture
[16:49] <sdf2> funny
[16:50] <sdf2> i go do a restart and start reading the biblic
[16:50] <sdf2> :)
[16:51] <Slonkie> Anyone in here using Maple 11 for linux?
[16:53] <UKGent> Slonkie not for Linux - I do have a Windows Maple 10 but have not used it for ages. Maple is a big bloated Application IMHO but with a powerful Math Engine
[16:53] <Slonkie> yeah well, as you mentioned it's a powerful math engine and we use it at my school
[16:54] <Slonkie> but when i'm installing it, it dosn't show up in the applications :/
[16:55] <UKGent> Slonkie - well I am a Linux rookie but I know that applications like that often don't show up on the Menus
[16:55] <sdf2> i rebooted my system
[16:55] <UKGent> Linux seems to be able to put stuff just about anywhere
[16:55] <sdf2> now it says audio capture devices are invalid
[16:55] <sdf2> -.-'
[16:55] <Slonkie> Then i looked trough the maple folder i installed in, and i chouldn't find how to run the application..
[16:55] <sdf2> and mic is bad again
[16:56] <UKGent> Ask TheSheep He knows everything !
[16:56] <sdf2> can u try, and not be a kid?
[16:56] <vinnl> UKGent, it depends... When an application provides an installer for Ubuntu and Xubuntu and the likes (i.e. a file that ends in .deb), it will get a menu entry just fine
[16:56] <Slonkie> this is a .bin
[16:57] <UKGent> vinnl Thanks - yes. It depends on the installer as you say
[16:58] <vinnl> Slonkie, then you can blame the application creator for not creating a menu file for the application ;-)
[16:58] <UKGent> Some downloads come in these Tarball archive things don't they?   They seem to get auto extracted and then you can often just click the exec
[16:58] <vinnl> Well, yeah, some do, but that's kind of bad practice
[16:58] <sdf2> now this is crazy, mic isn't working again...
[16:58] <Slonkie> But i should be able to use it even tho it doesn't create a menu entry ;)
[16:58] <sdf2> every setup i made disappeared...
[16:59] <vinnl> On the other hand, if you want to support many different Linux distributions, creating an appropriate package for each is a lot of work
[16:59] <UKGent> vinnl I am glad you said that because I intuitively thought that it is not good somehow
[16:59] <vinnl> Slonkie, yes, of course... I don't really know the application so I don't really know where to look... Is it a free download?
[16:59] <Slonkie> No it's expensive :(
[16:59] <vinnl> Well, then I can only suggest you try typing 'maple' in a terminal window
[17:00] <UKGent> Maple is very expensive ! I know - I bought Maple 10
[17:00] <Slonkie> I tried, diden't work :(
[17:00] <Slonkie> I'm glad my school is paying, UKGent :P
[17:00] <vinnl> Slonkie, and if you type 'map', then press Tab, what do you see?
[17:00] <UKGent> Slonkie - lucky you - can you not use Search to find the location ?
[17:00] <Slonkie> hmm i'm gonna try that, first i have to install it agian :)
[17:01] <sdf2> is there anyway i can save my alsamixer config?
[17:01] <sdf2> or where does xubuntu store it?
[17:01] <vinnl> Slonkie, or perhaps 'xmaple', as this page mentions: http://wiki.netbsd.se/How_to_run_Maple_on_NetBSD/i386
[17:02] <vinnl> Ah, Slonkie, did you pick a directory to install Maple in?
[17:02] <UKGent> vinnl would it not usually put it in the bin directory ?
[17:02] <Slonkie> Yes, vinnl.
[17:02] <vinnl> Slonkie, then there's a folder named 'bin' inside, that contains a maple or xmaple file, which you can double-click to run it
[17:03] <vinnl> UKGent, all depends on the developer, but apparently Maple's did so ;-)
[17:05] <Slonkie> heh i tried that vinnl.. maple doesn't start
[17:06] <vinnl> Slonkie, both maple and xmaple?
[17:06] <Slonkie> oh now it works
[17:06] <vinnl> Ah good :)
[17:06] <Slonkie> xmaple did the trick, thanks vinnl :)
[17:06] <vinnl> yw :)
[17:07] <UKGent> vinnl so if you get a choice of installation downloads - it is best to choose the Deb one ?
[17:07] <vinnl> UKGent, yep, always
[17:07] <vinnl> In fact, usually when a .deb is not available, I don't install it
[17:08] <vinnl> UKGent, by the way, when you install files using the "Add/Remove..." or "Synaptic Package Manager" options from the menu, that's also fine (it downloads and installs .deb files in the background)
[17:09] <vinnl> In fact, that's the best option because those .deb files are provided by the Ubuntu developers and thus checked for not being malicious and for adhering to such things as providing menu files ;-)
[17:10] <Slonkie> Would i be able to add Maple to the Office menu in the Applications menu?
[17:10] <UKGent> vinnl and is it best to use the terminal to install a freshly downloaded deb application ? If the Add/Remove or Synaptic do not list it ?
[17:10] <vinnl> Slonkie, you can, wait a sec
[17:10] <vinnl> UKGent, well, you can install a downloaded deb application by just double-clicking on it ;-). If Add/Remove or Synaptic doesn't list it or the version provided there is too old, you can do that
[17:11] <UKGent> vinnl  shows how much I know - I was doing the opposite and avoiding debian - the name has such a legendary (Robin Hood) reputation lol
[17:12] <vinnl> Haha, well, Xubuntu is based on Ubuntu which is based on Debian, so... ;-)
[17:12] <vinnl> Though you should take care to download .deb packages made for Ubuntu
[17:12] <vinnl> (Or Xubuntu, of course)
[17:12] <UKGent> vinnl I was messing around with RPM (which I really don't understand) or Tarballs, which I sort of partially understand ...
[17:14] <vinnl> UKGent, .rpm's are what distributions like Fedora use instead of .deb files, tarballs are just archives (like .zip's, e.g.) that often contain the source-code or distribution-independent (but unintegrated) executable files)
[17:14] <vinnl> *-)
[17:14] <vinnl> Slonkie, what's the folder the xmaple file is in?
[17:14] <UKGent> vinnl so it is just like Windows exec files - you just have to ask yourself 'do I trust the originator of this application' before double clicking ?
[17:14] <vinnl> UKGent, yes
[17:15] <vinnl> (And yeah, it's a complicated story, but that's the way it is...)
[17:16] <UKGent> vinnl thanks for explaining all of that - it is confusing for 'newbies' because you get the impression that most apps are delivered via archive files and that there will always be an exec to click onto, to activate the installation
[17:17] <Slonkie> /root/maple11/bin/ vinnl :)
[17:17] <vinnl> UKGent, yeah well, the main confusion stems from the fact that in Windows, you download files and execute them, while in Xubuntu, you mostly install stuff from the Add/Remove... application
[17:17] <Slonkie> which is even easier than in windows!
[17:18] <Slonkie> too many people thinks the opposite
[17:18] <vinnl> Yeah it is, and you even get automatic updates :)
[17:18] <UKGent> vinnl So you are better off learning about configuring your repositories and mirrors , rather than messing around with 'one off' downloads via websites ?
[17:18] <vinnl> Slonkie, ehm... I created a menu file for you, shall I explain where to save it or do you just want a command that saves it to the right location? ;-)
[17:19] <UKGent> vinnl that is, if you are interested in an app that is not in the main (default) lists
[17:19] <vinnl> UKGent, well, if you run Xubuntu, most application you'll want are available with the default repositories, so there's most of the time not even a need to configure that
[17:19] <Slonkie> Well i guess you chould just tell me where to put it
[17:19] <vinnl> UKGent, yep
[17:19] <vinnl> Slonkie, OK, wait, I'll upload it somewhere
[17:20] <vinnl> Slonkie, OK, this is it: http://paste.ubuntu.com/139090/plain/
[17:20] <Slonkie> Cool
[17:20] <vinnl> Slonkie, you'll want to save that to .local/share/applications in your home directory
[17:21] <Slonkie> with what name?
[17:21] <vinnl> Ehm, doesn't really matter as long as it ends in .desktop... I'd say maple.desktop :)
[17:21] <Slonkie> Cool, many thanks :)
[17:22] <UKGent> vinnl one thing I have learned is that you can basically save things anywhere convenient but don't put them in the root folder !
[17:22] <vinnl> After it's saved it should appear in your menu... You can force reloading the menu with sudo update-desktop-database
[17:22] <UKGent> Unless they have to be run as 'root'  - I suppose
[17:23] <vinnl> UKGent, well... You can save it anywhere if you're logged in as root, but you'll mostly want to save your files in your home directory
[17:23] <Slonkie> Thanks great vinnl. i can't say how much i appriciate this :)
[17:23] <J_Litewski> does ubuntu support MP4?
[17:23] <UKGent> vinnl yes - but I assume that it is bad security to place anything in the root directory?
[17:24] <vinnl> J_Litewski, yes, though you might need to install something for that (I believe you're asked to install it when you double-click an MP4 file)
[17:24] <vinnl> Slonkie, you're welcome :)
[17:24] <vinnl> UKGent, yeah, well, it's bad practice to place anything outside your home directory manually
[17:25] <UKGent> vinnl - right
[17:26] <J_Litewski> kk, ty vinnl. I'm trying to bypass the fact that all the flash plugins for Ubuntu don't work
[17:26] <vinnl> Hmm, that's odd... How do they not work?
[17:27] <J_Litewski> with streaming video, it doesn't connect, and with other movies, it's hit and miss with bad quality
[17:27] <vinnl> J_Litewski, which plugin are you using?
[17:27] <UKGent> Litewski - mine seem to - I always test everything against the NASA Home Site - even Chrome had trouble coping with some of their peculiarities - I just used the gstreamer additions
[17:28] <J_Litewski> right now, Gnash
[17:28] <vinnl> J_Litewski, well, that's expected with that one, as that only supports Flash v.7, while the newest is 9
[17:29] <vinnl> J_Litewski, you might want to install "Xubuntu Restricted Extras", which adds support for a whole lot of things like Java, Flash, MP4, etc.
[17:29] <J_Litewski> i also have swfdec and adobe flash, even though adobe doesn't come up on firefox's plug-in list
[17:29] <vinnl> I'd recommend you to remove them all and then install the restricted extras package, which should install Adobe's, and then see what's wrong
[17:29] <J_Litewski> kk
[17:29] <UKGent> And you can always just install flash anyway - if you don't mind using non-free ?
[17:30] <J_Litewski> how do you remove a plugin? disable it?
[17:30] <vinnl> No just uninstall them
[17:31] <J_Litewski> in a package manager?
[17:31] <vinnl> J_Litewski, yeah, Add/Remove... should do
[17:33] <UKGent> vinnl I had trouble with Flash and just ended up finding the main Adobe package in Add/Remove and installed it. It makes you agree to the terms & conditions and just installs it same as you would on a windows sys.
[17:33] <vinnl> Yeah I know, that's what we're going to do now :)
[17:34] <UKGent> vinnl - I feel a traitor to the 'free' cause doing it ... but you need flash for many sites these days - in my case NASA
[17:35] <J_Litewski> I have xubuntu restricted extras installed
[17:35] <vinnl> Yeah well, I like telling myself how I care for free software and such, but in the end, I just want to use quality software free of charge ;-)
[17:35] <vinnl> J_Litewski, OK... And what do you get if you visit a Flash website now?
[17:35] <J_Litewski> i had it installed
[17:36] <J_Litewski> i may uninstall it and reinstall it
[17:36] <vinnl> Oh OK... And now that you removed all the Flash plugins, is it still installed?
[17:36] <UKGent> vinnl I take what I call the 'idealistic/pragmatic view.  Did you select "All available applications" in the drop-down menu next to "Show:" in Add/Remove...?
[17:38] <vinnl> Oh wait, obviously you have
[17:38] <UKGent> and then there is the MS version of 'flash'  ... 'silverlight'   what a load of rubbish but I suppose we will end up accommodating it...
[17:38] <vinnl> But were Gnash and Swfdec not mentioned at all?
[17:38] <J_Litewski> nope, i installed thouse through firefox's plugin manager
[17:39] <vinnl> J_Litewski, which version of Xubuntu are you using?
[17:39] <J_Litewski> 9.04 Beta
[17:39] <UKGent> Litewski yes - the gstreamer set was the only set which got the NASA site fully working for me.. video that is.
[17:40] <vinnl> J_Litewski, hmm, that really is odd.... Could you check in Synaptic Package Manager whether they're listed there?
[17:40] <J_Litewski> yep
[17:42] <J_Litewski> in firefpx's plugin manager, i got Three flash plugins, the offical one that doesn't work, Gnash, and another one that says its Flash 9.0 r999
[17:43] <UKGent> Time for tea/dinner here in the UK - best of luck with your 'Flash' Litewski   bfn
[17:43] <J_Litewski> ty
[17:43] <UKGent> by vinnl
[17:43] <vinnl> Bye UKGent
[17:43] <vinnl> J_Litewski, and are they listed in Synaptic?
[17:43] <J_Litewski> loading that now
[17:44] <vinnl> Oh, and what's that other one called?
[17:44] <vinnl> I was wrong earlier, btw, the latest version of Flash is not 9 but 10
[17:45] <genii> vinnl: No, 10 is out
[17:45] <J_Litewski> it's Shockwave Flash 9.0 r115 (offical), Shockwave Flash 9.0 r999 (Gnash is in the discription), and Shockwave Flash 9.0 r999 (no discription)
[17:45] <vinnl> genii, yeah that's what I said :)
[17:46] <vinnl> Hmm, strange... Perhaps because you're running an unreleased version of Xubuntu or something
[17:46] <genii> vinnl: Mis-read, apologies :)
[17:46] <vinnl> np ;-)
[17:46] <J_Litewski> it didn't work with any version of XubuntuI used
[17:46] <vinnl> Yeah, I'm referring to the odd Flash entries
[17:47] <J_Litewski> found it in the package manager
[17:47] <vinnl> J_Litewski, OK, could you remove gnash and swfdec?
[17:48] <J_Litewski> kk
[17:49] <J_Litewski> what is kipi?
[17:50] <vinnl> It says "KDE Image Plugin Interface" in the description. Why?
[17:50] <knome> !info kipi
[17:50] <knome> right. :P
[17:51] <vinnl> !info kipi-plugins
[17:51] <J_Litewski> ah, the package manager said something about it
[17:51] <J_Litewski> that it wasn't going to be removed
[17:51] <sdf2> is there any way to browse my home lan with xubuntu?
[17:51] <vinnl> Hmm...
[17:51] <sdf2> with thunar maybe?
[17:51] <J_Litewski> do you want me to remove the offical flash plugin too?
[17:52] <vinnl> sdf2, I believe you had to look at pyneighborhood for that
[17:52] <vinnl> J_Litewski, perhaps reinstall that, just to be sure
[17:52] <vinnl> knome, could you take it from here? Dinner's ready here :P
[17:52] <sdf2> ok i try
[17:52] <knome> vinnl, sorry, no time :/
[17:53] <sdf2> and with this i can see my 2nd harddrive?
[17:53] <sdf2> or how can  i see that?
[17:53] <vinnl> Hmm, TheSheep? :)
[17:53] <vinnl> You should be able to see that with Thunar
[17:53] <J_Litewski> ok, reinstalled
[17:54] <sdf2> in which folder?
[17:54] <sdf2> or like a seperate device?
[17:54] <vinnl> J_Litewski, OK, and you removed Gnash and swfdec?
[17:54] <J_Litewski> yep
[17:54] <vinnl> sdf2, it should be listed on the left, if it's not, it's probably a bug
[17:54] <TheSheep> vinnl: yes?
[17:54] <sdf2> its not listed
[17:54] <vinnl> J_Litewski, and what does it say if you visit a Flash-based website now?
[17:55] <J_Litewski> not sure, let me start firefox
[17:55] <vinnl> TheSheep, if you could take J_Litewski  through making Flash work, I need to get to dinner ;-)
[17:55] <TheSheep> J_Litewski: where are we now?
[17:55] <vinnl> TheSheep, he just reinstalled Adobe's Flash and removed swfdec and Gnash
[17:55] <TheSheep> !ntfs | sdf2
[17:56] <J_Litewski> nothing
[17:56] <TheSheep> J_Litewski: try renaming the .mozilla directory in your home directory (it's hidden, you have to enable displaying hidden files in view menu in thunar)
[17:56] <TheSheep> J_Litewski: and starting firefox again
[17:56] <J_Litewski> no plugins listed in firefox's plugin manager
[17:57] <vinnl> OK, then I'm off for dinner, good luck J_Litewski and TheSheep, and sdf2  ;-)
[17:57] <J_Litewski> how do i display hidden files?
[17:57] <TheSheep> J_Litewski: ctrl+h or view->show hidden files
[17:57] <sdf2> btw, my machine doesn't see my 2nd harddrive
[17:57] <sdf2> i checked it with: df -h
[17:57] <TheSheep> sdf2: does fdisk -l list it?
[17:58] <sdf2> ye
[17:58] <TheSheep> sdf2: df only shows mounted drives
[17:58] <sdf2> that one sees
[17:58] <TheSheep> sdf2: try mounting it manually
[17:58] <TheSheep> !mount
[17:58] <sdf2> ubottu don't like u :D
[17:59] <sdf2> poor bot...
[17:59] <TheSheep> he's helpful
[17:59] <J_Litewski> there we go
[17:59] <TheSheep> (she? it?)
[18:00] <knome> !gender
[18:00] <J_Litewski> ty TheSheep
[18:00] <TheSheep> J_Litewski: it works?
[18:00] <J_Litewski> seems to be working now
[18:00] <TheSheep> great :)
[18:01] <TheSheep> I didn't expect it to mbe so easy :P
[18:01] <J_Litewski> lol
[18:01] <J_Litewski> firefox once freaked out on me in windows when i had a conflicting add-on installed
[18:02] <J_Litewski> it wouldn't display CSS2 properties correctly
[18:02] <TheSheep> browsers are becoming too complicated to my tastes
[18:03] <TheSheep> I'm almost afraid the next browser will be called Skynet
[18:03] <J_Litewski> eh, just as long as I can watch my movies and play my games im all good
[18:03] <J_Litewski> the next-gen web browser will be Cloud-capible, i know it
[18:05] <sdf2> i installed pyneighborhood
[18:05] <sdf2> and click on the home workgroup
[18:06] <sdf2> and it says failed to scan
[18:06] <J_Litewski> now, what would cause xubuntu not to automount a drive, even if you tell it too
[18:06] <tdn> How do I make a bootable USB thumb drive with the new 9.04 Beta Xubuntu ISO? I have just downloaded the desktop i386 version iso.
[18:08] <sdf2> i opened pyneighborhood as root
[18:09] <sdf2> and now i see my lan but
[18:09] <sdf2> i can't mount any drives
[18:09] <sdf2> any clue?
[18:11] <J_Litewski> sdf2, does xubuntu automount a CD if you put one in your CD drive?
[18:12] <sdf2> yes
[18:13] <J_Litewski> hmm, ok
[18:13] <sdf2> k i did it...
[18:14] <sdf2> its ok now
[18:26] <Slonkie> is it possible to make a shell script that automaticly logs into my server using ssh?
[18:34] <J_Litewski> stupid middle click
[18:35] <sdf2> why?
[18:35] <sdf2> i didn't clicked it in te last 5 years
[18:35] <J_Litewski> sometimes I do because my left clicker is broken somewhat
[18:35] <sdf2> :S
[18:36] <J_Litewski> only the edge by the right click button works
[18:36] <sdf2> i understand what u feel, my middle click is on the wheel
[18:37] <J_Litewski> where do you go to see what monitor your using in xubuntu?
[18:38] <sdf2> maybe in graphics card driver?
[18:38] <J_Litewski> ah
[18:38] <J_Litewski> didn't think to check there
[18:39] <sdf2> i can set this in nvidia x server settings
[18:39] <sdf2> don't know what if other card
[18:40] <J_Litewski> where is the graphics card window at?
[18:40] <sdf2> applications/system/
[18:41] <sdf2> in the menu
[18:41] <J_Litewski> nope
[18:41] <sdf2> etc/X11/xorg.conf
[18:42] <sdf2> stores the graphics settings if i'm right
[18:42] <TheSheep> Slonkie: yes, you can make it authenticate with a key
[18:42] <sdf2> at least my driver saves everything there
[18:42] <Slonkie> ehm.. i want it to start the ssh tunnel
[18:43] <TheSheep> Slonkie: sure
[18:43] <Slonkie> Running my proxy trough the tunnel, and i hate to type it in everytime
[18:43] <TheSheep> J_Litewski: try xrandr in terminal
[18:44] <TheSheep> J_Litewski: or xdpyinfo
[18:44] <J_Litewski> is there any way to see what driver it's using?
[18:45] <TheSheep> you can see in /var/log/Xorg.0.log
[18:45] <J_Litewski> since two days ago, I need to press Fn+F3 to get the screen to display correctly
[18:46] <J_Litewski> and Xubuntu also doesn't save my settings for the display eighter
[18:47] <TheSheep> ah, got it, xvinfo
[18:47] <J_Litewski> it just says screen #0
[18:48] <TheSheep> check the log then
[18:52] <J_Litewski> i didn't see anything
[20:17] <slow-motion> hi
[20:38] <J_Litewski> does anyone recommend the ext4 filesystem? i'm trying to liven up my system a bit
[20:39] <forces> im using ext4 right now
[20:39] <forces> i have no had any problem
[20:39] <UKGent> Hi everyone
[20:40] <J_Litewski> hi UKGent
[20:41] <J_Litewski> problem is, i'm not sure I can switch over to the ext4 filesystem without a LiveCD
[20:41] <UKGent> Just trying out my first few commands on BASH - found out that if you put a space within your Directory Names, BASH cannot identify them. Took the space out and then you can do cd and stuff like that
[20:41] <UKGent> Is that right?
[20:41] <pleia2> UKGent: just escape the spaces with a \
[20:41] <pleia2> so "Directory Name" is "Directory\ Name"
[20:42] <pleia2> same with other characters that are have other meanings in bash (like !)
[20:42] <UKGent> Ah ....  when all else fails , ask the experts ! I am going to try that out ...
[20:43] <UKGent> I know it is probably bad practise to put spaces in Dir names but it is more intuitive
[20:44] <TheSheep> no, it's ok, Linux is civilized :)
[20:44] <UKGent> I know this is boring but I want to start at absolute 'ground zero'
[20:45] <TheSheep> it's probably a bad idea to put a dash at the begining of a file name though
[20:45] <TheSheep> because then most programs will treat them as options
[20:45] <UKGent> TheSheep point taken - it is the spaces I like to use, for obvious reasons
[20:46] <TheSheep> and *never* leave a file called '-delete' in your directory :)
[20:46] <UKGent> TheSheep lol I try to avoid anything that looks like a reserved word anyhow
[20:46] <TheSheep> 'find *'  might get it worng then...
[20:47] <TheSheep> of course, to avoid that you should ude 'find - *' in scripts
[20:47] <TheSheep> but nobody ever does that
[20:47] <knome> TheSheep, krhm
[20:47] <UKGent> I have got the hang of using ls and its various parameters, like -a -t etc
[20:48] <knome> UKGent, command --help
[20:48] <TheSheep> in practice only -l and -a are useful
[20:48] <knome> UKGent, or man command
[20:48] <UKGent> and .. to go up a level seems good
[20:48] <UKGent> is man manual?
[20:48] <TheSheep> yes
[20:48] <UKGent> good guess lol
[20:48] <TheSheep> man 'command' will tell you about the command
[20:48] <UKGent> that is useful
[20:48] <TheSheep> 'man woman': no entry
[20:49] <TheSheep> ;)
[20:49] <UKGent> or man mountain ?
[20:49] <knome> !woman
[20:49] <knome> d'oh!
[20:49] <TheSheep> knome: you know zsh?
[20:49] <UKGent> or man idontreallyknowwhatiamdoing
[20:50] <TheSheep> UKGent: there is also 'apropos' that searches the manual
[20:50] <knome> TheSheep, not really.
[20:50] <UKGent> that sounds almost classical
[20:50] <TheSheep> knome: try running zsh and typing 'fire?' in the prompt
[20:50] <TheSheep> knome: without the ''
[20:51] <knome> i haven't got zsh installed :P
[20:51] <TheSheep> % fire?
[20:51] <TheSheep> zsh: no matches found
[20:52] <knome> right...
[20:52] <UKGent> that was a mistake - just tried man gnome2    I don't think I have that much time tonight !
[20:52] <TheSheep> come on, it's funny :P
[20:52] <TheSheep> UKGent: yeah, you can learn perl tomorrow
[20:53] <slow-motion> n8
[20:53] <TheSheep> one language a day
[20:53] <TheSheep> slow-motion: sleep well
[20:53] <UKGent> call me old fashioned but I love just operating with text sometimes - it is so quick and powerful
[20:54] <UKGent> I like the way it gives you the percentage as well as the line no
[20:55] <UKGent> how do you get out of the manual ?
[20:55] <knome> q
[20:55] <TheSheep> and ? gives you a reminder of different keys available
[20:55] <UKGent> knome thanks
[20:55] <UKGent> TheSheep thanks
[20:56] <TheSheep> sorry, that's h
[20:56] <TheSheep> for help
[20:56] <UKGent> lol I wondered why nothing happened
[20:56] <TheSheep> ? is for backward search
[20:57] <UKGent> Linux is really quite intuitive in the way it 'talks' to you - not what I was expecting at all
[20:57] <TheSheep> I like the word "consistent"
[20:57] <TheSheep> the only intuitive interface is the nipple
[20:58] <UKGent> TheSheep Perhaps that was the wrong word... what I meant was , it uses fairly natural language
[20:58] <TheSheep> for an English speaker :)
[20:58] <UKGent> TheSheep lol well yes
[20:58] <TheSheep> verb noun and all that
[20:59] <TheSheep> although many modern programs use 'noun verb adjective'
[21:00] <UKGent> TheSheep maybe we should look at that. Maybe programming languages are too influenced by our habitual grammatical structures. Maybe a Chinese person could devise a totally different sort of logical structure ?   Veering 'off topic' again !
[21:01] <TheSheep> UKGent: they sure are. Have you heard about teh language 'Ruby'?
[21:01] <TheSheep> UKGent: 'Ruby on Rails' and such
[21:01] <TheSheep> it's a language developed by the Japanese, completely wicked
[21:02] <UKGent> TheSheep I have heard of it yes - it is listed on the packages on synaptic I think
[21:02] <UKGent> I would be really interested in that, if it is what you are describing
[21:02] <TheSheep> in western languages you do soemthign like "for variable in list do command"
[21:03] <TheSheep> in Ruby you do "list.each(command)"
[21:03] <UKGent> TheSheep That sounds 'totally cool' to use a modern expression !
[21:04] <UKGent> I also hear that LISP is pretty special  Is that what emacs is built around ?
[21:04] <TheSheep> yes
[21:04] <TheSheep> lisp doesn't have grammar
[21:04] <TheSheep> you write a parsing tree directly
[21:04] <UKGent> TheSheep Yes - you can more or less write your own language as you go along , sort of
[21:05] <TheSheep> but you can also write 'macros' that will act as commands, replaced by fragments of the parsing tree -- so you build your own grammar in fact
[21:05] <TheSheep> from the grammatical point of view TeX is also interesting
[21:05] <TheSheep> it's a language for typesetting text
[21:06] <UKGent> TheSheep that sounds amazing - Stallman himself originated emacs, so I understand - he is a legend
[21:06] <TheSheep> but it has full power of programming languages
[21:06] <UKGent> TheSheep Tex is used in mathematics ?
[21:06] <UKGent> I think there is an editor you can download
[21:07] <TheSheep> it's used for typesetting any text, but it's liked by mathematicians because it makes typesetting formulas easy
[21:07] <TheSheep> actually, mathematicians usually use LaTeX, which is a set of macros, a library, so to say, over TeX
[21:08] <TheSheep> there is another set of macros called 'beamer' that lets you make beatiful pdf slideshows easily
[21:08] <UKGent> I am going to get the editor on here - I already have emacs 22 I think. Only got to the stage of learning how to navigate the text but it has a turuorial.  Ah yes LaTex that is what I had heard of
[21:08] <UKGent> sorry 'tutorial' lol
[21:09] <TheSheep> emacs also has a psychiatrist :)
[21:09] <TheSheep> under 'help' menu :)
[21:09] <TheSheep> I've heard it became necessary at certain stage
[21:09] <UKGent> TheSheep what ? !!   You mean emacs sort of gets psychologically disturbed lol
[21:10] <UKGent> I can see that it is a very powerful bit of kit - I am not fooled by the slightly ungainly, old fashioned exterior ...
[21:10] <TheSheep> who knows, it always looks to me like it's secretely planning to kill me
[21:11] <TheSheep> I feel safer with vim
[21:12] <UKGent> TheSheep I feel drawn to emacs - something to do with Stallman - if he devised it, it is probably capable of a lot more than people think !
[21:12] <UKGent> he seems a very smart man to me
[21:14] <TheSheep> the BSD guys weren't dumb either
[21:15] <UKGent> 'the chief GNU'isance
[21:16] <TheSheep> he's become a celebrity, and I don't really like it, although I do understand why he needs to do that
[21:17] <UKGent> Yes - as our Ian Drury once put it in one of his lyrics   'they're ain't half bin some clever ba****ds'
[21:18] <UKGent> TheSheep I know what you mean - he can come across as being egotistical as well but I do not believe that he is really. As you say, it is all part of the strategy ...
[21:19] <TheSheep> I don't like all that scheming, I just want to write code :)
[21:20] <UKGent> TheSheep I know - I just want to learn and be free to do what I want with my own box. Unfortunately, without people like him, we would probably not be able to.
[21:21] <UKGent> I absolutely hate the way MS hide things and try to make out you can do stuff but really just want you to do what they want you to do and not find out too much
[21:22] <UKGent> I am naturally nosey !
[21:24] <UKGent> but my Nephew, who is 17, is just not interested. He has the ability but got quite annoyed at my interest in computers.  More or less told me to get lost. So I told him to get lost!   What annoys me is that that is not my motive at all. I am 50 with heart disease. I gave up posing a long time ago. It is honestly just curiosity with me.
[21:30] <UKGent> I like Macs but I would not pay the price for one when there is Linux - after all, it is virtually the same sort of OS
[21:32] <brandonban6> UKGent, agreed
[21:33] <Slonkie> + Linux is so much more fun that OSX
[21:33] <Slonkie> :D
[21:35] <UKGent> Slonkie brandonban6 The thing is - he has a girlfriend over in the US and wants to go back to work. He need a 'Green Card' which is difficult to obtain from the UK (despite the fact that we are one of your most loyal allies !) He is good at IT and I was trying to get him going on Linux as a way of gaining proficiency....   In the end I wished him the best of luck with his Microsoft job interview.. that went down well lol
[21:37] <brandonban6> The American economy is a slump right now, it is hard for anyone to find a job. Good luck to him indeed.
[21:38] <TheSheep> I actually got a mac at work, I couldn't use macosx, it's very different from linux
[21:38] <TheSheep> 2 hours of looking for the console :)
[21:38] <TheSheep> so I installed xubuntu on it :)
[21:38] <brandonban6> Lol @ TheSheep , what do you do ?
[21:39] <UKGent> brandonban6 and that is why you need to learn to 'patch' the existing systems and servers. So learning Linux or LAMP is the way to go but he just is not interested... such is youth sometimes (apologies to present company)  lol installed ubunto on a MAC lol
[21:40] <TheSheep> brandonban6: sysop
[21:40] <TheSheep> UKGent: it's a pretty good computer, once you connect normal, full keyboard and a two-button mouse, really
[21:41] <brandonban6> <--24 years old. Madly in love with Linux.......just got my linux+ not to long ago, aiming for more security field job (sec+, gsec and CISSP are on the roadmap for next certs).
[21:42] <UKGent> TheSheep lol that is so funny IMHO  Apple would not be impressed with that - you ought to do a Utube Video on what you did and annoy them with it !
[21:42] <TheSheep> UKGent: meh, I don't care, I just want to get my work done
[21:44] <UKGent> TheSheep I want to get 'back to basics' I can see myself just disappearing into pure text space via the emacs ...   I am probably going through a mid-life crisis of some sort !
[21:44] <TheSheep> UKGent: let me know when you start playing rogue or nethack
[21:46] <UKGent> The thing is - I know nothing at present ... but I like that - sort of 'Zen Mind'  a blank page to write on , tabula Rasa (or whatever the Latin is)
[21:47] <UKGent> and my short term memory is terrible but I don't care - my comp has a lot of memory lol
[21:47] <TheSheep> you should make notes in zim :)
[21:48] <UKGent> TheSheep is that an Xubuntu app. or BASH, emacs or what ?
[21:49] <Slonkie> is it possible to make xubuntu lock the computer on the "windows button+L" ?
[21:50] <TheSheep> UKGent: xubuntu application, kind of a notepad, very convenient for notes
[21:50] <TheSheep> Slonkie: yes
[21:50] <TheSheep> Slonkie: just remap it from the default alt+ctrl+del
[21:50] <Slonkie> where would i be able to do that
[21:50] <TheSheep> UKGent: not installed by default
[21:50] <Slonkie> ?
[21:50] <UKGent> TheSheep I will have a look - and thanks for steering me back on topic !
[21:50] <TheSheep> Slonkie: in the keyboard settings
[21:51] <UKGent> TheSheep won't be long before I just do it on the terminal .... is that this apt-get thing?
[21:51] <TheSheep> sudo apt-get install zim
[21:52] <TheSheep> that's one of those 'noun verb noun' modern apps ;)
[21:53] <UKGent> TheSheep I got that right !  sudo - that is like going root only not using su -l   ?
[21:53] <TheSheep> yes
[21:53] <TheSheep> it does a single command as root
[21:54] <UKGent> right
[21:54] <TheSheep> "super user do"
[21:54] <TheSheep> "super user, do [ask] apt-get [to] install zim [please]"
[21:55] <tavasti> su = set user
[21:56] <tavasti> sudo = set user do ...
[21:56] <UKGent> TheSheep that was quick ! and no mouse   just had to do a cd ~ to get up the tree
[21:56] <TheSheep> actually most commands work anywhere you are in the tree
[21:57] <UKGent> Great watching it all load in the terminal whilst still in chat
[21:57] <UKGent> TheSheep this seemed to want me to be some place else - for some reason. Didn't know what to do so I found myself pressing cd ~
[21:59] <UKGent> and it has placed the app in Accessories ..
[21:59] <TheSheep> btw, 'cd' alone is equivalent to 'cd ~'
[21:59] <gorgut> is there a way to list all groups on a system?
[21:59] <gorgut> (in the command line)
[21:59] <TheSheep> gorgut: cat /etc/groups
[21:59] <TheSheep> sorry
[21:59] <TheSheep> gorgut: cat /etc/group
[22:00] <TheSheep> gorgut: cat /etc/group | cut -d: -f1   if you only want the names
[22:02] <UKGent> TheSheep so zim is a desktop wiki ? interesting
[22:03] <TheSheep> UKGent: I like it, because it doesn't have a save button, and I can make links between notes
[22:04] <gorgut> TheSheep,  whenever jaunty goes final, to upgrade my intrepid system, what do I have to do to upgrade? just add the repos to sources.list and do apt-get dist-upgrade?
[22:04] <TheSheep> UKGent: I usually make one page per day with kind a log of what I did or learned, then move larger stuff to separate pages, leaving a link and linking from other days
[22:04] <TheSheep> !upgrade | gorgut
[22:04] <UKGent> brb got to attend to my elderly mother - whom I help to look after (true)  TheSheep yes - I like that idea , I shall have a play with it later. That is why it is described as a Wiki ?
[22:05] <TheSheep> gorgut: apt-get update in the middle, that's what I usually do, although it's not the recommended way, I think
[22:05] <TheSheep> UKGent: well, it's similar to a wiki from a technical point of view
[22:06] <UKGent> TheSheep yes - I can see that - looks good back later
[22:06] <brandonban6> I'm going to do a backup, reformat my HDD to ext4, then install the upgrade
[22:06] <TheSheep> brandonban6: you know you can upgrade ext3 to ext4?
[22:07] <TheSheep> brandonban6: ext4 is backwards compatible
[22:07] <UKGent> See ya later folks and thanks to everyone who has helped, had a chat or commented !
[22:07] <brandonban6> TheSheep, really, w/o formatting???
[22:07] <brandonban6> later UKGent
[22:07] <TheSheep> brandonban6: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=973701
[22:08] <brandonban6> TheSheep, s EXPERIMENTAL and ENTIRELY UNSUPPORTED haha
[22:08] <TheSheep> brandonban6: so a backup is a good idea anyways
[22:08] <brandonban6> :D
[22:08] <gorgut> what is this new filesystem that is supposed to replace the ext series of filesystems?
[22:08] <stegel> i am working with a mythbuntu install of xubuntu and a siig soundwave 5.1 soundcard
[22:09] <gorgut> Btr or something?
[22:09] <TheSheep> brandonban6: you know, there are two kinds of users: those who make backups and those who will be making backups
[22:09] <stegel> aplay -l shows the card, but i get no audio out
[22:09] <brandonban6> TheSheep,  probably good practice most of the times.
[22:09] <brandonban6> agreed
[22:09] <gorgut> BtrFS, maybe?
[22:09] <TheSheep> stegel: alsamixer and unmute it
[22:10] <stegel> TheSHeep
[22:10] <stegel> done that
[22:12] <TheSheep> no improvement? :(
[22:12] <stegel> nope
[22:25] <gorgut> grrr... setting up ssh is not going well...
[22:30] <Jampiter> I have both kdm and gdm installed. Kdm is active. How do I change this to gdm?
[22:32] <TheSheep> Jampiter: with update-alternatives
[22:33] <TheSheep> gorgut: what's difficulet in that? it's a single command
[22:33] <Jampiter> TheSheep: How do I do that?
[22:34] <gorgut> TheSheep, my router isn't cooperating. i can ssh fine on the lan, just not from away
[22:34] <TheSheep> Jampiter: I just do 'sudo upadte-alternatives --all' and do all the choices, there is a better way if you remember the name...
[22:35] <TheSheep> gorgut: you need to forward port 22
[22:35] <TheSheep> gorgut: and ssh to the address of your router
[22:36] <J_Litewski> what are some good ext3 tweaks that I can do to improve xubuntu?
[22:36] <gorgut> TheSheep, did that, thought AT&T might be blocking 22 for some odd reason, so I tried changing it to 8888 (just picked a number) still no dice
[22:36] <TheSheep> J_Litewski: it comes with relatively good defaults
[22:36] <J_Litewski> TheSheep, it's an older Lappy
[22:37] <J_Litewski> it is suposta run win2k, even though it was running xp craptaskular
[22:37] <TheSheep> J_Litewski: noatime maybe
[22:37] <J_Litewski> did that
[22:38] <Jampiter> Thanks TheSheep
[22:39] <J_Litewski> i did some googling, did the noatime and some other tweak
[22:39] <J_Litewski> just wondering if there was more
[22:39] <TheSheep> it's usually not worth it
[22:40] <TheSheep> you will get better improvements compiling own kernel
[22:40] <TheSheep> but that's a little inconvenient
[22:40] <J_Litewski> maybe that'll fix my display problems
[22:41] <TheSheep> kernel doesn't do display, not yet
[22:41] <J_Litewski> ah
[22:41] <TheSheep> it only gives access to the device to X drivers
[22:41] <TheSheep> there are plans to move that into kernel
[22:42] <J_Litewski> and the X drivers control the display?
[22:42] <TheSheep> yes
[22:42] <TheSheep> at least in graphics mode
[22:42] <TheSheep> intext mode it's kernel
[22:43] <J_Litewski> so if my dispaly keeps reverting to 12xx by something, it's the X drivers fault?
[22:43] <TheSheep> they probably fail do detect your monitor properly
[22:44] <TheSheep> specifying the vertical and horizontal refresh rates may help
[22:44] <J_Litewski> how the hell do i fix that? because resetting my display is getting old
[22:44] <TheSheep> ^^
[22:45] <TheSheep> in xorg.conf
[22:45] <J_Litewski> ah
[22:45] <TheSheep> google should have examples
[22:45] <J_Litewski> kk, ty TheSheep
[22:45] <TheSheep> HorizRefresh
[22:46] <J_Litewski> if i run into any problems, i'll ask
[22:46] <TheSheep> you can try which values work for your screen with xvidtune
[22:49] <J_Litewski> is it a problem if the terminal says that there isn't a xorg.conf file in /ect/X11/?
[22:50] <Brad450> anyone know how to update a kernel?
[22:50] <TheSheep> !kernel
[22:51] <TheSheep> Brad450: it's updated with all other packages
[23:03] <J_Litewski> found my problem, it's still configured to use my desktop monitor
[23:03] <dasTexasNoob> howdy: how can I have a vfat partition show on Win XP?
[23:05] <TheSheep> dasTexasNoob: ask in ##windows
[23:05] <CloseYetFar> im pretty sure a vfat partition should work automatically on WinXP
[23:05] <CloseYetFar> What are you trying to do?
[23:06] <J_Litewski> where can I find the data to change the settings from my Sony SMD-M51 to my Dell Inspiron 1000 screen
[23:07] <dasTexasNoob> well, I created a vfat partition in xubuntu using fdisk and formatted it using mkfs.vfat. but it won't show up in my win xp
[23:07] <CloseYetFar> what does it say when you go to disk management
[23:08] <CloseYetFar> under windows
[23:11] <dasTexasNoob> CloseYetFar: this might sound stupid but where is disk mgmt in win xp?
[23:12] <UKGent> Playing around with Zim
[23:13] <UKGent> I like the little arrow on the RHS of the Xfce Windows - you can pull down the windows from anywhere on the Canvas - useful
[23:15] <CloseYetFar> right click on My computer and select manage, then look for disk management
[23:16] <dasTexasNoob> CloseYetFar: LOl, found it but I can't seem to add it
[23:16] <J_Litewski> TheSheep, how do i reset myxorg.conf file?
[23:16] <dasTexasNoob> CloseYetFar: kind of stupid to ask win questions here. sorry everybody
[23:17] <TheSheep> J_Litewski: rename it and make an empty one
[23:17] <J_Litewski> and when I restart, it'll reset it?
[23:18] <TheSheep> J_Litewski: no need to restart
[23:18] <TheSheep> J_Litewski: just kill X with alt+ctrl+backspace
[23:18] <TheSheep> J_Litewski: it will autodetect settings when xorg.conf is empty
[23:18] <dasTexasNoob> CYF thank you. have a good one
[23:18] <J_Litewski> ah, sweet, ty
[23:19] <J_Litewski> will it kill all of my graphical processes too?
[23:21] <J_Litewski> ctrl+alt+backspace didn't kill X
[23:31] <J_Litewski> well, that fixed it
[23:31] <J_Litewski> X would not die
[23:33] <TheSheep> J_Litewski: that's strange, is it Jaunty?
[23:44] <J_Litewski> TheSheep: yep
[23:44] <TheSheep> J_Litewski: they disable it in there, no idea why
[23:45] <J_Litewski> it would be a nice feature to have
[23:46] <J_Litewski> now I just have to reconfigure everything back to what it was
[23:48] <J_Litewski> ok, this is interesting, xorg.conf is o bytes
[23:48] <J_Litewski> *0 bytes
[23:55] <J_Litewski> TheSheep, aperently, the newest Jaunty kernel supports graphics
[23:55] <TheSheep> why?
[23:55] <J_Litewski> so xorg.conf isn't used anymore
[23:56] <J_Litewski> if it's there, it's used instead of the kernel, but other than that, it's old as of Jaunty's release
[23:58] <TheSheep> no
[23:58] <TheSheep> that's not like this
[23:58] <TheSheep> if there is no xorg.conf, X does autodetection
[23:58] <J_Litewski> my xorg.conf file is 0 byes
[23:58] <TheSheep> but still loads drivers that are separate from kernel
[23:59] <TheSheep> X is the program that displays your windows and graphics


[06:01] <acheronuk> cjwatson wgrant: seems that buildd-manager fell over again?
[06:26] <wgrant> acheronuk: Fixed. Something wen't slightly awry with the systemd migration, it seems.
[07:09] <jamesh> I suppose it'll take a while for it to catch up with my PPA build
[07:56]  * acheronuk watches queue lengths continue to rise
[08:51] <cjwatson> acheronuk: Yeah, we're working on converting the init script to a systemd service now so that systemd stops killing it
[08:52] <acheronuk> cjwatson: ok. thanks :)
[08:53] <cjwatson> Looks like it was doing its thing of thinking that buildd-manager was a long-running process owned by a logged-out user and therefore shooting it
[08:54] <acheronuk> hah. road to hell is 'paved with good intentions' as they say (even for system daemons)
[08:55] <cjwatson> (Though that's a bit odd since I believe that KillUserProcesses is off by default.  Anyway, a systemd service is better long-term)
[08:55] <acheronuk> indeed
[08:56] <acheronuk> thanks for the update and explanation
[08:57] <cjwatson> We did fairly extensive pre-upgrade testing, but production is (unfortunately) sufficiently different from our test and staging environments that there were always going to be a few speedbumps.