[00:22] <Noldorin> mgz, how come? :-P
[00:28] <mgz> because it's bed time, just trying to finish livecd backup
[00:31] <mgz> (as you may have gathered, this does mean I am actually still awake, and mostly watching progress bars)
[00:42] <Noldorin> mgz, ah, though you were an American for some reason.
[00:42] <Noldorin> mgz, still want me to write that blog post about setting up bzr+ssh on windows? :-P
[00:42] <Noldorin> might get some time tomorrow
[00:42] <Noldorin> s/might/should
[00:42] <Noldorin> s/tomorrow/weekend
[00:51] <mgz> would be great if you could
[00:57] <Noldorin> ok will do :-)
[00:57] <Noldorin> back in the mood of blogging since recently
[00:57] <Noldorin> so shouldn't be too hard
[11:44]  * jelmer waves
[13:25] <Movix> hi, is someone here  speaking french ?
[13:44] <Movix> perhaps speaking german ?
[13:49] <AuroraBorealis> how does branching work with colocated branches?
[13:49] <AuroraBorealis> if i do 'bzr branch . "something" "
[13:49] <AuroraBorealis> then it creates the branch inside the owrking tree inside of the .bzr/branches folder
[14:27] <AuroraBorealis> anyone on irc? :>
[14:40] <mgz> hic
[14:41] <AuroraBorealis> hey
[14:41] <AuroraBorealis> first off: i still need to fix the stuff we were working on, couldn't really come on cause my video card on windows decided to die hehe
[14:42] <AuroraBorealis> second off:
[14:42] <AuroraBorealis> mr Movix is trying to set up a sepcific workspace flow thingy, is it possible to have a branch that has branches underneath it?
[14:43] <mgz> well, I'm just hanging around eating stollen, so can help out
[14:43] <Movix> thx, i appreciate a lot
[14:43] <mgz> Movix is the one with the cms/php complicated setup thing?
[14:44] <Movix> oh ! seems so !
[14:44] <AuroraBorealis> well it seems that it would just be solevd with a branch with branches underneath
[14:44] <AuroraBorealis> and i see bzr has "split" which does that
[14:44] <AuroraBorealis> but...then it wants to version the newly created branch
[14:44] <mgz> what he's directly asking for is nested trees I think, which... is not fully implemented and still rather complicated
[14:44] <AuroraBorealis> yeah.
[14:44] <AuroraBorealis> it wants to version the repo files and stuff and that doesn't seem right
[14:44] <mgz> what he really wants is probably just a less complex way of working
[14:45] <Movix> ok, that reconciles me with bazaar, because i allready thought i'm to stupid for this stuff
[14:45] <AuroraBorealis> i feel you would have this problem with any vcs honestly
[14:46] <mgz> right.
[14:46] <Movix> yes, i was afraid about it but came to this conclusion also
[14:46] <AuroraBorealis> you could also use symlinks
[14:46] <AuroraBorealis> but again there is windows, and the bug which i need to try and see if i can fix >.>
[14:47] <mgz> subversion has reasonable support for integrating different related branches, but it's still fiddly to work on
[14:47] <mgz> I think really, what you want is:
[14:47] <mgz> * A pristine upstream branch of the cms
[14:47] <mgz> * A branch from that, with your changes and modules
[14:48] <Movix> at this point i have my first issue
[14:48] <mgz> * A number of "known good" or release branches, which you don't work on directly
[14:48] <mgz> then merge selectively downwards
[14:49] <Movix> i do not want to have the cms files mixed up with the module files, or i need to have a simple way to extract only the module related files in order to make a module only release
[14:49] <mgz> bzr export subdir works
[14:50] <mgz> as does bzr merge, and selective revert
[14:50] <mgz> eg
[14:50] <mgz> you have branches Upstream, Development, and CurrentRelease
[14:51] <Movix> i did not understood the selective reverts Martin allready suggested to me on launchpad
[14:51] <Movix> yes i allready tested taht structure
[14:51] <Movix> and it indeed comme the closest to what i expect
[14:51] <mgz> if you want to update one module in CurrentRelease to what you have in Development, but won't want any of the other changes
[14:52] <Movix> let me please say this in my own words to make sure i unterstood it well
[14:53] <Movix> what do you mean by "any of the other changes" ?
[14:53] <mgz> okay, give an example
[14:53] <mgz> well, I'm imagining you just do all your own changes in Development currently
[14:54] <mgz> so, you've updates module/x but also changed various other things in templates and maybe updated to the latest upstream version
[14:55] <mgz> if you know which changes you want to land on an existing release in advance, you work on those in a seperate branch
[14:56] <mgz> but even if you don't, you can merge or cherrypick merge just the changes to module/x without including all the others
[14:56] <mgz> so, you don't need a seperate version control branch for each module and template
[14:57] <mgz> which makes life complicated, as you then need to track everything seperately, but also record which versions of each branch work with which versions of other branches
[14:57] <Movix> that's the point
[14:58] <mgz> generally it's sufficient to just commit independant changes as seperate commits, and keep branches in a known-working state
[14:58] <Movix> so i finaly made my life easier on one hand but complicated it on another
[14:58] <mgz> people seldom care in practice about full dependency tracking for each tiddly component of a project, they just want a few known correct states
[14:59] <Movix> i'm happy to see that most of my conclusions were not so weird
[14:59] <mgz> so, you have a 'stable' or similar branch you want to keep existing versions, but perhaps selectively update certain things
[14:59] <Movix> correct
[14:59] <mgz> that you can do by just branching from an older revision, and cherrypicking or daggy fixing certain modules
[15:00] <Movix> have to give a look at cherrypicking, i did not looked at it for now :(
[15:00] <mgz> or, say, you want all your modules unchanged, but need to update the base cms to the latest minor version with security fixes
[15:00] <mgz> all you need in that case, is your pristine upstream branch of the cms
[15:02] <mgz> update and commit the new version, then `bzr merge -d StableRelease Upstream; bzr commit -m'Update to X.X.1'` or similar
[15:02] <mgz> if upstream has multiple branches going at once, it still works, you just keep a branch for each series
[15:02] <mgz> some of this is easier to do with pictures :)
[15:03] <mgz> so, with merging backwards to stable like this, there are three basic options:
[15:04] <mgz> * Merge the newer branch, revert every change you don't want, and commit
[15:04] <mgz> * Cherrypick merge just the revision with the change (this is similar to just commiting the applied patch)
[15:06] <mgz> * Do the fix on branch at a revision before stable diverged, then merge into both development and stable branches
[15:08] <mgz> AuroraBorealis: so, is your gfx card fixed now? what's our next step?
[15:08] <AuroraBorealis> well
[15:08] <AuroraBorealis> its fixed now
[15:09] <AuroraBorealis> but i think my disk might be screwed up cause i seem to be creating a lot of undeletable files
[15:10] <AuroraBorealis> so i'm going to try and fix this before anything else
[15:10] <AuroraBorealis> HOWEVER
[15:10]  * mgz fears hardwar :)
[15:10] <mgz> +e
[15:10] <mgz> but I guess hard war too.
[15:10] <AuroraBorealis> are colocated branches fully supported yet?
[15:11] <mgz> yes, they need some ui work still, but go ahead and poke them/file bugs
[15:12] <AuroraBorealis> because i'm not exactly sure how to create another branch inside of one
[15:13] <mgz> that's... nested trees, not colocated branches?
[15:13] <AuroraBorealis> i created a 'colocated branch' in bzr explorer
[15:13] <AuroraBorealis> and the branches are stored in .bzr/branches
[15:13] <mgz> colo is just about having one directory represent more than one branch
[15:13] <Movix> that seems interesting to me
[15:14] <AuroraBorealis> yeah, so shouldn't it be possible to have more then one branch in the same directory?
[15:14] <Movix> for my needs^^
[15:14] <AuroraBorealis> cause i thought thats how git does it
[15:14] <mgz> in your case Movix, you're more likely to get deeply confused by colocation than find it useful I think
[15:15] <AuroraBorealis> and then you use switch to switch between branches
[15:15] <mgz> you need to keep in your head that you're only working on the development tree, and merging changes around
[15:15] <Movix> may i post here what i understood from your suggestions to verify i understood it ?
[15:15] <mgz> right, so, that all works AuroraBorealis, what aren't you succeeding tat?
[15:16] <mgz> Movix: go for it
[15:16] <AuroraBorealis> well creating a branch in a colocated branch
[15:16] <AuroraBorealis> creates it in the wrong place it seems like
[15:16] <mgz> `bzr switch -b newbranch` is all you need for a new branch in the same dir with a colo format
[15:17] <mgz> it's in .bzr/branches under the hood, but you can address it with the funny comma syntax
[15:17] <AuroraBorealis> yeah
[15:17] <AuroraBorealis> that doesn't seem very..intitutive
[15:17] <AuroraBorealis> i was trying to do "bzr branch . somenamehere"
[15:18] <mgz> okay, so, file bugs/post to the mailing list about the bits you find confusing
[15:18] <AuroraBorealis> and the fact that to create another branch you have to use switch xD
[15:19] <mgz> you can do it with the branch command, but... the addressing is ugly
[15:19] <mgz> need something like `bzr branch . file:,branch=newbranch`
[15:20] <AuroraBorealis> hm =/
[15:20] <mgz> the problem with what you tried is it works as a command meaning something else
[15:20] <AuroraBorealis> yeah
[15:20] <AuroraBorealis> it created a new branch
[15:20] <AuroraBorealis> but it didnt do it in the way that colocated branches expected it
[15:21] <mgz> I use exactly that with python and mercurial, branch from the (treeless) current dir into a new subdir (and create a tree)
[15:21] <mgz> if that's a common issue, trapping it as a mistake and warning or something may be useful
[15:21] <AuroraBorealis> as in you branch inside the .bzr/branches folder
[15:21] <AuroraBorealis> directly?
[15:22] <mgz> no
[15:22] <Movix> to build my structure i do this
[15:22] <Movix> bzr init bzr/cms
[15:22] <Movix> bzr commit bzr/cms -m "Project init" --unchanged
[15:22] <Movix> bzr branch bzr/cms /bzr/upstream
[15:22] <Movix> bzr branch bzr/cms /bzr/dev
[15:22] <Movix> bzr branch bzr/cms /bzr/currentRelease
[15:22] <Movix> i copy my downloaded cms files into /bzr/upstream, do add and comit -m "cms version xy"
[15:22] <Movix> now i have to push this to my paent branch bzr push /bzr/upstream /bzr/cms
[15:22] <Movix> and can get his update in my dev branch bzr pull /bzr/cms /bzr/dev
[15:22] <Movix> now i add my module files or do some work that once finished is comited bzr commit /bzr/dev -m "Mymod init"
[15:22] <Movix> If i'm still wrong on these first steps i appologyse to have wasted your precious time
[15:23] <mgz> Movix: roughly seems fine, some comments in a sec
[15:25] <mgz> AuroraBorealis: no, it's something of a quirk with the python/hg setup, they have different development series bundled into one, so to get a tree for each version, I branch the whole lot into python/ without trees, then do (the hg version) branching python/ into python/2.7 to get just that branch with a tree
[15:25] <AuroraBorealis> ah
[15:26] <AuroraBorealis> interesting
[15:26] <mgz> in bzr, there's really no good reason to create a new branch from the current directory to a subdir
[15:26] <AuroraBorealis> yeah
[15:26] <mgz> because we have shared repos
[15:26] <AuroraBorealis> well i was just trying to see how you create another branch in a colocated dir
[15:26] <mgz> yup.
[15:26] <AuroraBorealis> i'll file a bug report on saying thats hard
[15:26] <mgz> so, the right answer is switch -b, it's just not very obvious
[15:26] <AuroraBorealis> also: where should i file documentation bugs?
[15:27] <AuroraBorealis> yeah, i feel branch should be smart and do it correctly if its in a colocated branch
[15:27] <mgz> against bzr generally. perhaps posting a selection of impressions to the list would be most useful
[15:27] <AuroraBorealis> well i just notice that 'bzr new' is not on the online documentation at all
[15:27] <AuroraBorealis> and then doing bzr new --help says "usage: bzr init-workspace [LOCATION] "
[15:28] <AuroraBorealis> so that is wrong as well
[15:28] <mgz> ...seems to be from bzr-explorer?
[15:28] <AuroraBorealis> oh.
[15:28] <AuroraBorealis> it even says that.
[15:28] <AuroraBorealis> at the bottom.
[15:28] <AuroraBorealis> well, i'll file that against explorer
[15:29] <mgz> Movix: so, you don't need to do that empty commit at the start, and want to branch from upstream to dev, and from dev to currentRelease
[15:30] <mgz> I'd suggest... unpack upstream release to bzr/upstream then bzr init and bzr commit there
[15:30] <Movix> ok
[15:31] <mgz> then branch that to bzr/dev then branch bzr/dev to bzr/currentRelease
[15:31] <mgz> now copy across your working development file into bzr/dev and do `bzr st`
[15:32] <mgz> check it looks sort of right, add anything you need to, commit
[15:32] <mgz> you may want to look at `bzr ignore` before that, all three branches will want it probably
[15:33] <mgz> (it's less important for upstream, as you may not need to build/test that locally)
[15:34] <mgz> anyway, after that you can try merging those dev changes to currentRelease and reverting some of them
[15:35] <mgz> remember you can always chuck some branches away, create new ones, branch from old revisions, and such like
[15:35] <mgz> so should experiment as much as possible
[15:36] <AuroraBorealis> thanks for the help, i'll try and fix my windows problems and get back to working on the memory stuff
[15:36] <AuroraBorealis> but now, bed~
[15:53] <Movix> thanks so far for your help, i go back testing
[15:54] <mgz> feel free to keep bugging me
[16:01] <Movix> (16:27:56) mgz: you may want to look at `bzr ignore` before that, all three branches will want it probably
[16:01] <Movix> you meen i'll ignore the files issued from the CMS sources (or part of these) ? This does not work because there are issued and commited in the parent of bzr/dev
[16:04] <mgz> no, I mean ignore anything you don't want versioned
[16:05] <Movix> ok, i continue testing
[16:05] <mgz> like stuff automatically created when running in place or whatever
[16:05] <Movix> ok, understood this
[16:06] <mgz> will just be nipping out with hound, should be back shortly
[16:18] <Movix> mgz: Back again ?
[16:42] <Movix> mgz: are you here ?
[17:05] <mgz> Movix: back (briefly)
[17:06] <Movix> yeah, i just want to say that i got a quite good result now
[17:06] <Movix> the cherrypick is the way
[17:06] <Movix> using the suggeested structure
[17:08] <Movix> but when releasing a module branch /bzr/dev /brz/modulerelease.xy i have to cherrypick all changes to the branch that do not concern the module. that needs to relosve a lot of conflict on that path but finally i have a clean module release folder
[17:10] <Movix> i guess i have to keep the message in the explorer when within bzr/dev that tells me not all changes are merged to the parent and never murge them. tu update to a new upstream release release, i delete contents of bzr/upstream and populate that folder with the new downloaded files and commit this. after that i grab it within the dev folder with a pull merge command.
[17:10] <Movix> anyway, thank you a lot for your effort in understanding my bad english and the time you spent for my concerns
[17:22] <mgz> I don't quite follow that, but you don't really want pull from dev to release
[17:23] <mgz> you just want merge, either -r31..32 for one specific change, or all changes then reverting and subdirs you don't need, which remembers not to try and bring in those changes again


[01:17] <djret> hey whats up
[01:17] <djret> banned ?
[01:17] <h00k> @login
[01:17] <h00k> @btlogin
[01:17] <h00k> djret: standby, please.
[01:18] <djret> this is most unusual
[01:19] <djret> so Im usig a banned IP?
[01:19] <h00k> djret: give me a second to take a look
[01:19] <h00k> djret: What channel are you trying to join?
[01:19] <djret> ubuntu
[01:20] <djret> why bis this IP anned?
[01:20] <djret> why bis this IP banned?
[01:20] <Pici> djret: patience.
[01:20] <djret> why is this IP banned?
[01:21] <h00k> djret: You're not helping at all. You need to wait a second while I look.
[01:21] <djret> ok well never mind shal go elese where
[01:22] <djret> can you explain reason for the ban?
[01:22] <h00k> djret: It appears we've had a lot of abuse from that range of addresses
[01:23] <djret> never mind Ill try elsewhere
[01:23] <h00k> djret: You're more than welcome to, I suppose.
[01:23] <Pici> okay then
[01:24] <h00k> For the record, there appears to be a lot of abuse from that range of addresses
[01:24] <h00k> And it appears there is a +b on<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[01:24] <Pici> Yep
[01:24] <Pici> 20:20:15 <ubottu> Match<EMAIL_ADDRESS>by bazhang in #ubuntu on Aug 22 2010 03:53:13 (ID: 28025)
[01:24] <h00k> for a number of "users"
[01:24]  * h00k shrugs
[01:50] <elky> yep, we checked the who for a while before putting that in iirc
[02:00] <nhandler> idoru got him ^
[02:16] <dexkt26> well hello all
[02:17] <dexkt26> so whens the next ubuntu out?
[02:18] <dexkt26> told it might be in october
[02:18] <dexkt26> is this right?
[02:22] <dexkt26> hey this is ubuntu right?
[02:22] <maco> this is the ubuntu operators channel
[02:22] <dexkt26> so where am I?
[02:23] <dexkt26> if not in ubuntu
[02:23] <maco> #ubuntu-ops
[02:24] <maco> like i said, the ubuntu operators channel
[02:24] <maco> you were probably forwarded here due to a ban in #ubuntu, if it's not where you were aiming for
[02:25] <dexkt26> ok so how do I get into ubuntu
[02:26] <dexkt26> maco: yes just realised that   not sure why that happened
[02:27] <dexkt26> maco: banned  because???
[02:28] <dexkt26> maco: I have been here before
[02:29] <dexkt26> maco: heres what I get #ubuntu  Cannot send to channel
[02:33] <dexkt26> maco: whats with this
[02:33] <maco> sorry im doing 3 things at once here. lemme check the bantracker
[02:34] <dexkt26> maco: ok thanks
[02:39] <dexkt26> maco: very quiet here
[02:40] <dexkt26> maco: I was told is fairly busy here!
[02:40] <dexkt26> maco: good place to come
[02:43] <dexkt26> hello
[02:43] <maco> hmm so what i see is that you've been banned multiple times, evaded bans, refused to acknowledge that fact, and eventually you were removed last time you visited
[02:45] <dexkt26> maco: lat time I was here I wasnt banned
[02:46] <maco> august 25 you were here refusing to own up to your ban evasions and eventually you were removed from this channel
[02:46] <maco> removed, not banned
[02:46] <maco> but you're still banned in #ubuntu because you didnt resolve your august 22 ban
[02:47] <maco> my laptop battery is about to die.. :-/
[02:47] <maco> Pici: ping?
[02:47] <dexkt26> maco: so how is that resolved?
[02:47] <maco> need to talk about why you got banned in the first place and about your evasion tendencies, but my laptop is about to shut down from battery :-/
[02:47] <maco> Flannel: ping?
[02:47] <dexkt26> maco: not sure what is meant by that
[02:48] <IdleOne> dexkt26: what nick were you using the last time you were here?
[02:48] <dexkt26> maco: Ive never beened banned
[02:48] <maco> IdleOne: jusoe according to bt
[02:48] <IdleOne> dexkt26: what nick were you using the last time you were here?
[02:50] <dexkt26> IdleOne:   last time I was dexkt26 and I wasnt banned for that
[02:50] <IdleOne> how long ago was it?
[02:51] <dexkt26> IdleOne:   my nick wasnt banned why so now?
[02:51] <IdleOne> dexkt26: Please answer my question
[02:51] <dexkt26> IdleOne:  about 5 weeks ago i was here
[02:53] <IdleOne> dexkt26: I am going to set an exemption so you can join #ubuntu.
[02:53] <dexkt26> oh what gives
[02:53] <IdleOne> !guidelines
[02:53] <IdleOne> Please read the guidelines
[02:53] <IdleOne> give me a moment to set the exempt
[02:54] <dexkt26> IdleOne:  this is very bizzar
[02:54] <dexkt26> IdleOne:  I havent done anything!
[02:55] <dexkt26> IdleOne:  to warrent this ban
[02:55] <IdleOne> dexkt26: I know
[02:55] <dexkt26> IdleOne: so whats it about then?
[02:56] <IdleOne> it's a long story, let's leave it at mistaken identity
[02:56] <IdleOne> Please join #ubuntu now so we can make sure you can join
[02:57] <dexkt26> IdleOne: so Im not totally banned?
[02:57] <IdleOne> dexkt26: provided you use this same nickname every time you try to join #ubuntu, you won't have any problems
[02:57] <dexkt26> IdleOne: is this some other IP address problem
[02:58] <IdleOne> dexkt26: I am quite busy at the moment if you could please join #ubuntu
[02:58] <dexkt26> IdleOne: oh so iuts my IP adress really   and not me   correct?
[02:59] <IdleOne> correct
[02:59] <dexkt26> IdleOne: makes sence then
[02:59] <IdleOne> dexkt26: Please join #ubuntu so I can be sure I set the exempt correctly
[03:02] <IdleOne> set exempt on the nick dexkt26
[03:02] <IdleOne> He will be back under a different nick, soonish I'm sure
[03:07] <IdleOne> he joined #ubuntu for 1 minute and quit
[03:07] <IdleOne> 091510-[22:03:02] * dexkt26<EMAIL_ADDRESS>has joined #ubuntu
[03:07] <IdleOne> just like the last time we wasted an hour
[03:07]  * IdleOne goes back to Star Trek
[03:50] <brian> banned fron ubuntu?
[03:50] <brian> why
[03:51] <brian> hey wht is this?
[03:51] <brian> hey why is this?
[03:52] <h00k> brian: Standby, let me check.
[03:52] <brian> heres what I get  	#ubuntu Cannot send to channel
[03:53] <brian> no proper
[03:53] <h00k> brian: There appears to be a lot of abuse from that range of addresses
[03:53] <brian> thought It wes a freenode room
[03:54] <brian> what does that mean?
[03:54] <h00k> brian: The room is on a Freenode server, if that's what you're asking. The bans for that channel aren't handled by Freenode, they're handled by #ubuntu-* operators
[03:55] <Flannel> maco: What's up?
[03:55] <brian> so why the has freenode banned me
[03:56] <h00k> brian: that range of IPs has been banned multiple times for abuses and ban evading
[03:56] <brian> ok so what for me?
[03:58] <brian> my ISP has not banned me
[04:00] <brian> so is my ISP banned  is that what it is?
[04:00] <h00k> Yes, it looks like we have a ban on that address range
[04:02] <brian> still I get this 	#ubuntu Cannot send to channel
[04:02] <h00k> brian: standby, please.
[04:03] <h00k> brian: you should now be able to join
[04:03] <brian> not understand why Im banned  please explain
[04:04] <h00k> brian: I explained that that range of addresses was banned. That includes your address.
[04:04] <brian> well maybe I should go where somewhere Im not banned
[04:05] <brian> later
[04:08] <h00k> So...okay. I did temporarily unban him, gave him the opportunity to join, but he did not, so I re-banned that range.
[04:08] <h00k> It was suspiciously similar to the previous visitor.
[04:09] <IdleOne> h00k: next time /mode +e nick!*
[04:09] <IdleOne> allows the nick to join and keeps the ban
[04:09] <h00k> makes sense, yeah, I don't know why I didn't think of that
[04:10] <h00k> I'm silly.
[04:11] <IdleOne> nahhh
[04:12] <IdleOne> how often do we set +e anyway
[07:53] <popey> maco: got a (grumpy) reply from the ubuntu-help.com guy. its not a phishing site, it was an 'experiment' with apache proxy. he's taken it down now
[14:04] <maco> popey: mmmk.... id say any site masquerading as another, particularly when passwords are involved, are phishing though
[14:05] <ikonia> agreed
[14:07] <popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/494743/
[14:13] <ikonia> it's still a phising site as it's coverting passwords intentionally or not
[14:17] <jpds> We need ubuntu-help.com when we have help.u.c ?
[14:52] <elky> For personal experiments.
[14:52] <elky> That resemble remarks about phishing.
[15:19] <popey> i haven't bothered reply, felt he was too grumpy and wouldn't realise I was alerting him for the right reasons
[18:09] <Pici> You know, I was just going to say its quiet, but now someone in -ot is making me explain why saying 'seig heil' is a bad thing.
[18:09] <knome> ...
[18:12] <jpds> Pici: Victory hail, hmm.
[18:13] <Pici> jpds: After someone mentioned nazis.
[20:09] <jrib> hmm
[20:09] <Pici> Whats up?
[20:11] <jrib> why do I keep being disconnected :(
[20:11] <Pici> Max SendQ exceeded
[20:12] <jrib> weird, I'm not actually doing anything different


[07:40] <stub> cory_fu: whoops, sorry.
[07:41] <stub> uploaded
[13:30] <elmaciej> Hello! Does anyone have expierience with installing mapr using juju
[13:50] <rick_h> Sorry elmaciej  not done it here. What charm are you using and what are you hitting?
[14:37] <SuneK> Hi, I'm trying to deploy the canonical kubernetes cluster through juju gui. I exported and modified the yaml file to add constraints for the workers, however these constraints were not met by the provisioned machines.
[14:38] <SuneK> (Of course I also reimported the updated yaml file :-)
[14:39] <SuneK> I know I could just add constraints to the machines, but as far as I understood adding the constraints to the applications, should ensure, that the application was deployed on machines with sufficient resources
[14:49] <SuneK> msg NickServ register 0G2YOU8ipDoh<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[14:49] <SuneK> lol
[14:53] <cory_fu> stub: Thanks.  Any chance we could automate the release process somehow so that they stay in sync?  Or perhaps give me and / or tvansteenburgh access on pypi to update it if it's missed?  We depend on the pypi version in conjure-up (we use pypi to bundle it into the snap)
[14:55] <stub> PPA gets built automatically, snap published to edge automatically but needs manual promotion to stable (by me, since snapstore doesn't have teams), pypi isn't automatic
[14:55] <stub> I can give you and Tim access to Pypi, sure
[14:56] <cory_fu> Thanks.  That'll at least take care of the case where one or two of us is unavailable
[14:57] <stub> It will lose gpg signing by my key, but I don't think anyone in the real world cares about that.
[14:58] <akshay__> Hi All, on my OCATA setup (openstack+my application) when I revert the snapshot to openstack only state and then try to re-deploy my application it is not allowing me to add relation and errors out as the relation being added already exists. Can someone please help me out.
[14:58] <stub> cory_fu: Is done
[15:00] <cory_fu> stub: Thanks!
[15:46] <kwmonroe> rats, i missed SuneK.  if that person comes back with the application vs machine contraint issue, it's bug 1676986.  workaround is that you need machine constraints to affect initial bundle deployment; app constraints alone won't do it.
[15:46] <mup> Bug #1676986: juju doesn't honor bundle application constraints (2.1.2) <constraints> <juju:Invalid> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1676986>
[16:02] <magicaltrout> is there an answer you don't know kwmonroe .......
[16:09] <kwmonroe> magicaltrout: i don't know why you keep messing with my backscroll!
[17:16] <rick_h> kwmonroe: magicaltrout bdx hml externalreality_ and folks a heads up on juju show in 105min
[17:16] <hml> rick_h: :-) - what’s today’s topic?
[17:16] <hml> agprado: ^^
[17:16] <rick_h> hml: upgrading juju
[17:17] <rick_h> agprado: that's what I was looking for. I was looking in the G's trying to find his nick
[17:17] <rick_h> hml: IS has a cool tool for upgrading juju controllers and models I want to show off and get folks involved with
[18:20] <yosefrow_> @kwmonroe, is it possible yet to deploy a bundle with a manual cloud. iirc last time I tried that, it failed because juju could not use the manually added machines to deploy for some reason.
[18:22] <rick_h> yosefrow_: so the newer juju supports a flag on bundle deploy --use-existing that should work out for you
[18:23] <rick_h> oh damn too slow and wrong command https://jujucharms.com/docs/2.3/charms-bundles#recycling-machines
[18:24] <kwmonroe> heh
[18:24] <kwmonroe> he'll be back.  they always come back.
[18:26]  * rick_h adds that as a note to the juju show
[18:26] <rick_h> 30min! and then party time!
[18:34] <yosefrow> rick_h, wheres the party?
[18:35] <rick_h> yosefrow: juju show in 26min!
[18:35] <yosefrow> :o
[18:35] <yosefrow> where?
[18:35] <rick_h> yosefrow: and https://jujucharms.com/docs/2.3/charms-bundles#recycling-machines for ya
[18:35] <rick_h> yosefrow: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pkbp4VK8-vo
[18:35] <rick_h> at the top of the hour
[18:35] <yosefrow> @rick_h, this was in answer to my question?
[18:36] <yosefrow> recycling
[18:36] <rick_h> yosefrow: yep, if I understand your question correctly
[18:36] <yosefrow> this looks amazing
[18:36] <yosefrow> its probably exactly what i need
[18:36] <yosefrow> wish i knew about that months ago
[18:37] <rick_h> yosefrow: well it's a month old I think in the last release or two
[18:37] <yosefrow> ah i heard about it then
[18:37] <rick_h> so yea, added a note to mention it on the juju show today in case it slipped by others
[18:37] <yosefrow> when i originally had the problem i complained to canonical and they said is a feature coming to the next release
[18:38] <yosefrow> @rick_h, specifically useful when deploying manual cloud
[18:38] <rick_h> yosefrow: definitely
[18:38] <rick_h> yosefrow: what machines are you running on then?
[18:38] <rick_h> yosefrow: is it something we don't support as a cloud or just machines lying around or ?
[18:38] <yosefrow> my use case is 3 nodes manually provided by a client who doesnt want me to access their hypervisor. Then bootstrapping to kvm node on management node and deploying k8s to the 3 manual nodes with a bundle
[18:39] <rick_h> yosefrow: oic
[18:39] <yosefrow> i fell short of deployment and was forced to use rancher
[18:39] <yosefrow> because juju insisted on ignoring my manually added machines
[18:39] <yosefrow> glad to see this fixed
[18:40] <rick_h> yosefrow: definitely
[18:40] <yosefrow> ill include it in my blog post about manual deployment with juju when i get around to it
[18:41] <rick_h> yosefrow: I'd love to see it when you get around to it
[18:41] <yosefrow> sure
[18:41] <yosefrow> you can see my previous posts and correct any glaring issues if you want
[18:42] <yosefrow> havent had many ppl review it and im wondering if my posts are clear enough
[18:42] <yosefrow> rick_h, do you work with maas much?
[18:42] <rick_h> yosefrow: I use it, I've got my own maas cluster at the house I use for testing and such but don't work on it
[18:42] <rick_h> yosefrow: but I'm a fan :)
[18:43] <yosefrow> cool
[18:43] <yosefrow> how deeply are you involved with juju?
[18:43] <rick_h> I think it really solves a cool problem that more folks have than realize (maas that is)
[18:43] <rick_h> I've worked all around it for a while. I'm pretty involved.
[18:43] <rick_h> (juju that is)
[18:45] <yosefrow> nice
[18:45] <yosefrow> you write code for juju?
[18:46] <rick_h> I've written more code around juju, the gui, the charmstore, etc. I've not written the main juju Go code. I work with those teams a lot.
[18:47] <yosefrow> cool :o
[18:48] <yosefrow> Im confident that Juju / MAAS have a prominent place in the present and future of cloud computing
[18:48] <yosefrow> Without them my life would be a nightmare
[18:52] <rick_h> yosefrow: glad to hear. hopefully the updates get your deploys going smoother
[18:52] <rick_h> https://hangouts.google.com/hangouts/_/kzm7m5vmn5f5lbfm5yr4wkowk4e bdx kwmonroe hml agprado externalreality_  and such for joining the hangout
[18:53] <yosefrow> rick_h, before juju was not on option for certain clients. now it is. I just need to test it
[18:53] <rick_h> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pkbp4VK8-vo for watching in 7 min
[18:53] <rick_h> yosefrow: if you hit anything you know where to find us :)
[18:53] <yosefrow> hehe yep :)
[19:16] <zeestrat> rick_h: A tip on how to build older juju clients would be handy too for us stragglers who need to test things in staging
[19:25] <zeestrat> rick_h: Would love to crib some notes.
[19:25] <rick_h> zeestrat: gotcha, will put together a pastebin for you
[19:25] <zeestrat> Thanks
[19:29] <yosefrow> @rick_h, well that was fun. I originally meant to join as a spectator, but I guess it all worked out. How often do you do this show?
[19:29] <rick_h> yosefrow: every two weeks, same bat time, same bat channel
[19:29] <yosefrow> juju operates on bat time?
[19:29] <rick_h> yosefrow: http://youtube.com/jujucharms check out the playlist for the juju show
[19:29] <rick_h> yosefrow: is there any other?  I had to monkey around a bit to get it to work but think these are the required ones
[19:36] <yosefrow> rick_h, while you are here, do you know off the top of your head if theres a way to customize the location of the juju gui download automatically downloaded when you bootstrap, or a way to skip the gui being installed so that the installation does not timeout?
[19:36] <yosefrow> this becomes in an issue in ari-gapped environments
[19:36] <zeestrat> rick_h: Getting "You do not currently have access to the pastebin." Internal only?
[19:36] <yosefrow> air-gapped*
[19:36] <rick_h> yosefrow: yes, there's a --no-gui option to bootstrap and then you can always download any gui release tarball and use that as an upgrade-gui command
[19:36] <rick_h> zeestrat: oh doh my bad
[19:36] <rick_h> yosefrow: https://github.com/juju/juju-gui/releases
[19:37] <rick_h> zeestrat: try https://paste.ubuntu.com/26537367/
[19:37] <zeestrat> ty
[19:37] <yosefrow> rick_h, is this the recommended way of performing air gapped installs?, or is a kind of --gui-url option being planned ?
[19:38] <rick_h> yosefrow: no, nothing in the plans. Worth a bug perhaps but unfortunately not a priority there since there's the work around
[19:38] <yosefrow> understood. noting the workaround. Thanks
[19:38] <yosefrow> I wish I joined this channel earlier instead of futzing around on my own for so long. You guys are totally cool
[19:39] <yosefrow> Thanks for all the help
[19:40] <rick_h> yosefrow: no problem, thanks for hacking with stuff and definitely we want people to use our stuff :)
[19:41] <yosefrow> rick_h, This is cutting edge stuff. So I'm glad to be part of the juju movement, even if just as a user/bug reporter.
[19:42] <yosefrow> Ill definitely report bugs and clarify any roadblocks i run into here
[19:42] <rick_h> <3
[20:03] <ryebot> I'm having a hard time getting the cloudinit-userdata model config to work: https://gist.github.com/wwwtyro/77d79e971f8c79590ea47e87b4875d8a
[20:04] <ryebot> I've tried numerous permutations, but I never see anything set in /var/lib/cloud/instance/user-data.txt.i or any of its siblings
[20:05] <ryebot> Any suggestions/examples?
[20:33] <thumper> ryebot: which version of juju are you using?
[20:33] <thumper> hml: ^^
[20:33] <ryebot> @thumper: 2.3.2
[20:33] <ryebot> thumper: I just discovered this: https://github.com/juju/juju/blob/2.3/cloudconfig/userdatacfg_unix.go#L357
[20:34] <ryebot> which invalidates that experiment
[20:34] <ryebot> but I'm trying to get ca-certs to work
[20:34] <ryebot> I'm going to try with final_message next and see if I can even get it to show up
[20:36] <hml> ryebot: packages should be allowed - they are handled separately
[20:36] <hml> ryebot: they are merged into the juju packages list
[20:37] <hml> ryebot: any chance you can check the cloudinit log files on the machine?
[20:37] <ryebot> hml: yeah no problem
[20:38] <ryebot> hml: anything in particular you'd like me to look for?
[20:38] <hml> ryebot: see what references to ack-grep there are.  did it find it in the cloud init files and were there problems installing it
[20:39] <hml> ryebot: you can also see if it make it into /var/lib/cloud/instance/user-data.txt.i
[20:39] <ryebot> hml: no references to ack-grep in /var/log/cloud-init.log or /var/log/cloud-init-output.log
[20:40] <ryebot> hml: it's not in /var/lib/cloud/instance/user-data.txt.i either
[20:40] <hml> ryebot: hrm…
[20:40] <hml> ryebot: trying something in my setup
[20:41] <ryebot> hml sweet thanks
[20:42] <ryebot> hml: fwiw, I wasn't able to get final_message or ca-certs to work either
[20:43] <hml> ryebot: you’re config file worked locally for me
[20:43] <ryebot> well, poop
[20:44] <hml> ryebot: what series are you using?
[20:45] <ryebot> hml xenial
[20:45]  * hml scratching head
[20:45] <ryebot> hml: are you on 2.3.2? or dev branch or?
[20:46] <hml> ryebot: i’m on dev right now - but it works on 2.3.2, went in for 2.3.1, but i’ll double check 2.3.2 in a minute to be paranoid
[20:46] <ryebot> hml: also did you try with a fresh model? I've been reusing the same model and just launching a new machine after each model-config change
[20:47] <hml> ryebot: i had to bootstrap - so it’s all fresh
[20:47] <hml> ryebot: did you bootstrap 2.3.2 or upgrade?
[20:47] <ryebot> gah, my controller is 2.3.1
[20:47] <ryebot> dangit
[20:47] <ryebot> lemme bootstrap a new one
[21:14] <rick_h> ryebot: upgrade! /me did the juju-upgrader tool in the juju show today
[21:14] <rick_h> vs bootstrap, oh except I see there's some question of issues with an upgraded setup
[21:14] <ryebot> rick_h: hmm well I probably should have to add another datapoint, but too late now
[21:15] <ryebot> rick_h: I'll remember next time :)
[22:09] <SuneK> Hi I need some help understanding constraints
[22:09] <SuneK> I was under the impression that when i specify a constraint for an application in a bundle, juju would provision machines that met those constraints?
[22:10] <knobby> that would be my assumption as well. What specific constraint are you using and in what environment?
[22:11] <SuneK> I'm trying to setup the canonical kubernetes distribution
[22:11] <knobby> on bare metal, aws, gce?
[22:11] <SuneK> on vsphere
[22:12] <SuneK> So i loaded the bundle in the juju gui, exported it, and added constraints for the worker nodes, and reimported it to my model
[22:13] <SuneK> But the machines created are way to small
[22:14] <SuneK> I know i could set constraints for the machines themselves, but that's not how it's suppose to be (in my mind at least)
[22:14] <kwmonroe> SuneK!!
[22:14] <knobby> I'm not sure about vsphere and constraints. I thought I saw something about that in an issue recently but I can't find it now. Maybe one of the juju guys can help.
[22:15] <SuneK> kwmonroe: ?
[22:17] <kwmonroe> SuneK: sorry, i forgot to paste the thing i was exlaiming you for...
[22:17] <kwmonroe> so, earlier you asked about this constraint thing, but i wasn't fast enough with the reply before you dropped..
[22:17] <kwmonroe> here's the deal:  bug 1676986
[22:17] <mup> Bug #1676986: juju doesn't honor bundle application constraints (2.1.2) <constraints> <juju:Invalid> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1676986>
[22:17] <SuneK> Yeah sorry about that; I had to pickup kids :-)
[22:18] <kwmonroe> SuneK: on initial deploy, machine contraints will take prescedent.  application constraints will take effect for stuff like "add-unit"
[22:18] <SuneK> But thanks, I'll look into that
[22:18] <SuneK> Ok, well now there's an explanation, I can work around that
[22:18] <SuneK> Thanks again!
[22:19] <kwmonroe> np