[05:34] <bkerensa> gnight all
[05:41] <jono> night bkerensa
[06:05] <jussi> o/
[06:25] <dholbach> good morning
[08:09] <czajkowski> aloha
[09:48] <daker> dholbach, good morning
[10:00] <dholbach> hey daker
[10:01] <daker> dholbach, i need to fix this bug 991156
[10:01] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 991156 in tzdata "Moroccan DST time change needs upgrade" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/991156
[10:03] <dholbach> there seems to be an update available at http://www.iana.org/time-zones
[10:03] <dholbach> 2012c
[10:04] <dholbach> I'll ask around if somebody's on it - maybe that fixes it
[10:05] <daker> thanks ツ
[10:07] <dholbach> daker: yes, the change is included in 2012c
[10:14] <daker> mhall119, cjohnston https://plus.google.com/u/0/116572928700195690866/posts/Y8RsAtvxE5M
[10:32] <daker> dholbach, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJw1K-iMRAM&feature=youtu.be
[10:37] <dholbach> daker: très bien! :)
[11:59] <czajkowski> jcastro: ping when you're about re UDS LP clinic scheduling.
[13:24] <mhall119> daker: cool, thanks
[13:49] <alourie> hello
[14:00] <cjohnston> czajkowski: I was going to ask you about that.. Do you guys want it in Summit?
[14:01] <czajkowski> cjohnston: yes please
[14:01] <czajkowski> between 2-3 on tuesday and thursday
[14:01] <cjohnston> czajkowski: If you create the meetings in Summit, I'll get them scheduled
[14:01] <czajkowski> sure
[14:04] <czajkowski> cjohnston: created
[14:05] <cjohnston> ty czajkowski
[14:06] <czajkowski> cjohnston: can you create it twice from 2-3 tues & thursday and allocate a room ?
[14:06] <czajkowski> if so will that room change as I need to mail stakeholders about this
[14:07] <cjohnston> the only way the room would change is if the room I assigned it wasn't the right place for it
[14:08] <cjohnston> I'm just going to put it in a regular room though, so I don't see a reason there would be an issue
[14:09] <czajkowski> grand job thanks
[14:09] <czajkowski> can you let me know when its done so I can send mails
[14:09] <czajkowski> thanks
[14:10] <cjohnston> czajkowski: during the plenaries?
[14:11] <czajkowski> yup
[14:12] <cjohnston> I can't put it during the plenaries afaik
[14:12] <cjohnston> the plenary locks all the rooms
[14:12] <czajkowski> ugh
[14:13] <czajkowski> the idea was it doesnt clash with other sessions and track leads as some of the the people in those want to attend this
[14:30] <czajkowski> cjohnston: you saying that for sure now before I go and try and find out what way to mvoe this?
[14:30] <czajkowski> *move this
[14:32] <cjohnston> mhall119: ^
[14:35] <mhall119> cjohnston: what are you asking me?
[14:36] <cjohnston> mhall119: afaik we can't schedule other meetings during the, plenary, is that correct?
[14:37] <mhall119> correct
[14:37] <cjohnston> czajkowski: ^
[14:38] <czajkowski> ugh
[14:38] <czajkowski> thats rather annoying
[14:38] <czajkowski> ok
[14:40] <cjohnston> its by design
[14:41] <czajkowski> cjohnston: also by design is its not very intuitive to sign up to sessions, doesn't make the design right :)
[14:41] <mhall119> czajkowski: actually that part isn't by design, it's from lack of design :)
[14:42] <mhall119> we will make signing up for sessions easier in the future
[14:42] <czajkowski> six of one, half a dozen of the other :)
[14:42] <mhall119> well, one will get fixed eventually, the other likely won't
[14:42] <czajkowski> guess we can always have the session, it just wont end up on the schedule
[14:42] <czajkowski> *shrugs*
[14:44] <mhall119> yeah, that's the only way for now
[14:45] <czajkowski> :/
[14:45] <czajkowski> not ideal either
[14:46] <mhall119> czajkowski: we know, but it is the best we can provide today
[14:46] <james_w> first I think we would have to stop calling them "plenaries" before changing summit :-)
[14:47] <cjohnston> +1
[14:47] <cjohnston> james_w: any chance you have a few extra hours ;-)
[14:47] <james_w> before UDS?
[14:47] <cjohnston> before tonight
[14:48] <cjohnston> ?
[14:48] <cjohnston> heh
[14:48] <mhall119> upboat: http://www.reddit.com/r/Ubuntu/comments/szs5h/the_importance_of_apps_in_ubuntu/
[14:48] <cjohnston> upboat, upboat!
[14:49] <james_w> cjohnston, afraid not
[14:49] <cjohnston> ok
[14:51] <cprofitt> cjohnston: I like the look of the new summit... very nice.
[14:51] <cjohnston> ty
[14:52] <cprofitt> thanks to mhall119 as well... and anyone else that worked on it
[14:52] <mhall119> cprofitt: mostly just cjohnston
[14:53] <cprofitt> I also like having the ability to 'attend this meeting' right on the sessions notes page
[14:55] <cjohnston> +1
[14:55] <cjohnston> thats pretty awesome
[14:56] <cprofitt> Seems very intuitive... thought long time users may find it different... I think new users will find it easier
[15:03] <dholbach> oi jono!
[15:04] <jono> hey dholbach :-)
[15:04] <cprofitt> hey jono
[15:04] <jono> hey cprofitt
[15:05] <czajkowski> cjohnston: we're gonna go with a regular session in stead
[15:05] <czajkowski> instead
[15:05] <cjohnston> ok
[15:05] <czajkowski> cjohnston: gmb will poke to schedule
[15:05] <cjohnston> ok
[15:06] <cprofitt> cjohnston: I am almost through Monday and it is very easy to use the new summit... really liking this design.
[15:06] <cjohnston> ty
[15:06] <s-fox> jono,  thanks for the follow up to my bug report. I will posts the results later when I finish work and have completed my run.
[15:06] <cprofitt> hey s-fox
[15:06] <s-fox> Hello cprofitt
[15:09] <nigelb> dholbach: I have something for you! https://twitter.com/#!/sankarshan/status/196978362277830657/photo/1
[15:10] <dholbach> NICE
[15:11] <dholbach> La Repubblica in Italy was very happy with 12.04 too: http://www.repubblica.it/tecnologia/2012/04/26/foto/ubuntu_12_04_il_formichere_meticoloso-33987528/1/
[15:11] <mhall119> cprofitt: have you tried it on a phone yet?
[15:11] <mhall119> cjohnston: btw, mobile layout looks pretty good on my DroidX
[15:12] <cprofitt> mhall119: I have not... but the single column on a phone would certainly be a vast improvement over the 'wide' style...
[15:12] <cprofitt> I will have to test it out later today
[15:12] <mhall119> cprofitt: even better, cjohnston and aquarius have added mobile css
[15:13] <cprofitt> cool...
[15:13] <cprofitt> lots of hard work and effort... great job cjohnston!!
[15:13] <cjohnston> :-)
[15:21] <mhall119> +1
[15:35] <jono> s-fox, thanks!
[15:36] <jono> dholbach, sorry my call went longer than expected
[15:37] <dholbach> no worries
[15:37] <jono> dholbach, I am scheduled to hop on with dpm now
[15:37] <dholbach> he's not around
[15:37] <dholbach> holiday
[15:37] <jono> ahhh of course
[15:37] <jono> dholbach, ok to go now?
[15:37] <dholbach> sure
[15:38] <jono> dholbach, https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/extras/canonical.com/horsemen?authuser=0&hl=en&shxp=1&eid
[15:49] <jcastro> hey
[15:49] <jcastro> https://twitter.com/#!/doctorow/status/196989095992492035
[15:49] <jcastro> WE HAVE ARRIVED.
[16:06] <greg-g> hah
[16:07] <jcastro> jono: ok I've got the bp's for the Qt folks in the system, I assume you're fine with those three sessions and slots? There's plenty of room
[16:07] <greg-g> jcastro: so, he's using unity 2d, not normal unity?
[16:07] <jcastro> not sure
[16:08] <jono> jcastro, yeah, sounds good
[16:08] <jcastro> jono: if you could approve/decline sessions today that would be swell
[16:09] <jono> jcastro, yeah, I am going to blitz through 'em when I am done with calls
[16:10] <jcastro> I've pinged the others, once we finish today we'll be in awesome shape
[16:10] <jcastro> does anyone know who Michael Schloh is?
[16:12] <cprofitt> jcastro: no
[16:16] <jono> jcastro, cool
[16:19] <s-fox> BRB
[16:23] <dholbach> alright my friends - time to call it a day
[16:23] <dholbach> have a great rest of yours and see you Wednesday
[16:24] <dholbach> tomorrow is a holiday in Germany
[16:24] <dholbach> bye :)
[16:28] <jono> awesome, the accomplishments lens is fully working :-)
[16:54] <daker> greg-g, https://twitter.com/#!/doctorow/status/196988805729894402
[16:54] <jussi> jcastro: you about?
[16:55] <jcastro> yo
[16:55] <jussi> jcastro: did you find anyone else to volunteer to MC for mark?  I have somethign clashing, but will cancel it if no one else is available
[16:56] <cjohnston> jcastro: I'm going to bug you too
[16:56] <jcastro> jussi: I still need someone
[16:57] <jcastro> cjohnston: shoot
[16:57] <jcastro> jussi: that's when, tomorrow?
[16:57] <cjohnston> jcastro: whats the story with roundtables this cycle?
[16:57] <jussi> jcastro: ok, Ill see who is available
[16:57] <jussi> jcastro: yeah, but let me see if I can source someone
[16:58] <jcastro> cjohnston: what do you mean? I dunno, it's up to each tracklead to make roundtables if they want.
[16:58] <jcastro> not sure if jono's doing them or not yet
[16:58] <jcastro> I assume yes
[16:58] <cjohnston> ok.. they don't exist yet and other stuff is filling up all the slots
[17:00] <cjohnston> czajkowski: meetings are scheduled
[17:02] <czajkowski> cjohnston: cheers thanks
[17:18] <greg-g> daker: yeah, I saw that, hence the question, just, I thought Unity 2D wasn't the full Unity experience (ie: you miss some of the actual features, not just whiz bang pretty) I could be wrong :)
[17:22] <snap-l> greg-g: Was under the impression that the goal was feature parity between Unity 2D and 3D.
[17:22] <greg-g> snap-l: /me shrugs
[17:22]  * greg-g uses gnome-shell, don't tell anyone
[17:23] <snap-l> greg-g: That's it. We're breaking up. Give me back those records you borrowed.
[17:23] <greg-g> "And don't forget the black t-shirt"
[17:24] <snap-l> You'll find your things outside on the lawn.
[17:24] <snap-l> *sniff*
[17:24] <snap-l> ;)
[17:31] <cjohnston> jcastro: can you see http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-q/review/
[17:31] <jcastro> oh cool, handy!
[17:32] <cjohnston> jcastro: thats ONLY for meetings made in summit
[17:32] <jcastro> oh
[17:32] <cjohnston> jcastro: I just sent out an email ref that and a question for leads
[17:33] <cjohnston> I'm going to start poking for that
[17:59] <jcastro> hey cjohnston
[17:59] <jcastro> so a.rosales should be able to see an edit button on the day view
[17:59] <jcastro> but he can't
[17:59] <jcastro> They've been added to the right lp group iirc
[17:59] <jcastro> whatever the scheduler group is in lp
[18:00] <s-fox> o/
[18:00] <jcastro> or mhall119 ^^
[18:01] <s-fox> jono,  ran the commands you suggested. got a crash report. told it to submit a bug report.
[18:01] <jono> s-fox, you should do an upgrade of the packages in the PPA
[18:01] <jono> we have fixed some new things
[18:01] <jono> and I just tagged it for the 0.1 release
[18:04] <s-fox> jono,  okay. i'll upgrade the packages. It would be good to see it do something :)
[18:05] <mhall119> jcastro: we don't use LP groups for summit schedulers, they are added on a per-summit basis
[18:05] <jcastro> ok
[18:05] <jcastro> can you add a.rosales please?
[18:06] <mhall119> yup
[18:06] <mhall119> jcastro: done
[18:15] <cjohnston> jcastro: who is a.rosales
[18:16] <jcastro> antonio, he's one of robbie's managers
[18:22] <jussi> jcastro: djones is gonna mc for Mark :)
[18:24] <DJones> jcastro: Just mentioned to jussi that I'd be available to forward question for Mark's openweek session tomorrow night and he said to let you know I'd be able to do that
[18:26] <mhall119> jcastro: giving a.rosales scheduler role means they can schedule any sessions, is that what you wanted?
[18:26] <mhall119> meaning sesssions for any track
[18:26] <mhall119> not just cloud and server
[18:28] <s-fox> jono,  no real change :(  Posted terminal output in the bug report via paste.ubuntu.com
[18:34] <jcastro> mhall119: that's fine
[18:38] <cjohnston> grr
[18:38] <balloons> cjohnston, another page to review :-)
[18:38] <cjohnston> balloons: your slacking.. you havn't replied!
[18:39] <balloons> yep.. total slacker
[18:39] <mhall119> jcastro: "fine" meaning "That's what I intended all along" or meaning "It does at least as much as I wanted and I don't really care if it does more"?
[18:39] <jcastro> it's what I intended all along
[18:39] <jcastro> he's like a subtrack-lead
[18:45] <technoviking> jcastro: any word on SSO/Forums
[18:45] <technoviking> sorry to be a broken record
[18:46] <s-fox> o/ technoviking . How are things stateside?
[18:47] <jcastro> technoviking: ok so it's been escalated, and jono sent a new message to the council on friday
[18:48] <jcastro> jussi: ok sorry I was on calls
[18:49] <technoviking> s-fox: good, just finished moving all the University digital collections (10 OCR million pdfs and jpegs) to an Ubuntu server cluster
[18:49] <technoviking> jcastro and jono: many tanks
[18:49] <jussi> jcastro: ok, Ive tld DJones to talk to pleia2, but if youve anything to add, please let him know.
[18:49] <technoviking> s-fox: and my sons 14th birthday in two days
[18:49] <jcastro> jussi: ok so he'll be emceeing?
[18:49] <jussi> yep
[18:49] <jcastro> rock
[18:50] <DJones> o/
[18:50] <s-fox> technoviking,  i wouldn't envy that task :)  I hope your family have fun for the birthday.
[18:52] <mhall119> jcastro: sub-tack leads shouldn't have more scheduling ability than track leads
[18:52] <greg-g> technoviking: whoa, tell me more about the pdfs/jpegs/OCR
[18:52] <greg-g> technoviking: link is fine :)
[18:53] <mhall119> cjohnston: can we just make this person an additional track lead on cloud and server?
[18:53] <jcastro> mhall119: are trackleads limited to their track?
[18:53] <mhall119> yes
[18:53] <jcastro> mhall119: yeah, that would be ideal
[18:53] <jcastro> to make him a cotracklead
[18:53] <technoviking> greg-g: all the newspapers written in Utah till 1968 have been scanned and OCR and are available on-line
[18:54] <greg-g> nice!
[18:54] <technoviking> http://digitalnewspapers.org/
[18:54] <technoviking> and contentdm.lib.utah.edu
[18:55] <technoviking> I mean content.lib.utah.edu
[18:55] <mhall119> jcastro: done
[18:57] <jcastro> <3
[19:01] <balloons> cjohnston, I'm a bit confused why you want the "participation essential" to work differently between the two
[19:04] <jcastro> cjohnston: I can answer steve's mail if you want
[19:04] <balloons> jcastro, cjohnston I'm pretty much inline with Steve atm
[19:05] <jcastro> with which part?
[19:05] <balloons> all of it.. and some more
[19:05] <balloons> ;-)
[19:05] <balloons> my reply will be out in a min
[19:05] <balloons> educate me
[19:06] <bkerensa> Top of the morning to you all ;)
[19:06] <jcastro> ok so everyone but the track leads and marianna/msm/me should be filing blueprints
[19:06] <jcastro> not using the meeting thing
[19:08] <jcastro> balloons: I'll let you send your response
[19:08] <cjohnston> jcastro: whats your reply
[19:09] <jcastro> I don't see what the problem is here
[19:09] <cjohnston> balloons: with participation essential people mess with the scheduler
[19:09] <cjohnston> and people who don't really have to be at a meeting mark themselves as having to
[19:09] <jcastro> 99% of attendees will be interacting with blueprints
[19:09] <cjohnston> which creates issues with scheduling
[19:09] <jcastro> not this meeting thing
[19:09] <cjohnston> we can turn off the meeting thing globally, but not individually
[19:10] <cjohnston> but this makes it to where we dont have to do the community-q-something stuff
[19:10] <cjohnston> reduces the # of errors
[19:10] <jcastro> huh?
[19:10] <cjohnston> hugly
[19:10] <cjohnston> hugely
[19:10] <jcastro> we make people do the naming convention right?
[19:10] <mhall119> for blueprints, yes
[19:10] <jcastro> right
[19:10] <cjohnston> jcastro: I've been around for 4 years i think and haven't seen an entire summit where they have been
[19:10] <mhall119> so that the launchpad import script knows what track to put them on
[19:11] <jcastro> right
[19:11] <jcastro> and we have instructions for that
[19:11] <jcastro> and the track leads enforce that with their submissions
[19:11] <mhall119> yep, and fallible people following them
[19:11] <cjohnston> or someone changes a status and "why doesn't my meeting show up"
[19:11] <cjohnston> the people dont follow them
[19:11] <jcastro> then they go to the track lead
[19:12] <jcastro> ok so what's the problem we are trying to solve
[19:12] <cjohnston> who then goes to marianna/michelle who then goes to me
[19:12] <cjohnston> reduce user error
[19:12] <cjohnston> as well as not every meeting needs a blueprint
[19:12] <cjohnston> if you create blueprints afterwards, the naming convention doesnt matter
[19:12] <cjohnston> and you only create blueprints when you need them
[19:13] <cjohnston> i.e. if there are 4 meetings about one topic, you only need 1 bp
[19:13] <jcastro> ok so, right now, do we let any attendee schedule via this system?
[19:13] <balloons> jcastro, cjohnston I replied
[19:13] <cjohnston> any attendee can propose a meeting, just as they can propose a blueprint
[19:14] <mhall119> jcastro: an attendee can part themselves at participating a session, they can't schedule anything
[19:14] <jcastro> cjohnston: ok so I would shut that off
[19:14] <mhall119> s/part/mark/
[19:14] <jcastro> the only people who even need this UI are track leads and admins
[19:14] <cjohnston> we dont have that ability right now
[19:14] <cjohnston> its all or nothing
[19:15] <jcastro> ok
[19:15] <jcastro> alright, so track leads should just decline and be like "file a blueprint."
[19:15] <jcastro> and people don't like that tough, we don't want people to not have BPs
[19:15] <cjohnston> then the TL is going to need to email each person who made one and tell them to make a BP
[19:15] <jcastro> then they'll just make Pony and Unicorn sessions taking up slots for no reason
[19:16] <jcastro> they don't need to mail each person
[19:16] <jcastro> just decline
[19:16] <jcastro> and when the person whines, we have instructions on how to file a real session
[19:16] <cjohnston> the person isn't going to know why it was declined
[19:16] <jcastro> sure they will, we sent the directions for attendees to -devel
[19:16] <jcastro> cjohnston: I just don't want people saying "oh well, this way is easier, screw blueprints I will just use this thing!"
[19:16] <jcastro> just because people are being lazy
[19:17] <cjohnston> blueprints will still be required for any sort of tracking
[19:17] <jcastro> right, so they should go there in the first place
[19:17] <jcastro> where is the UI for scheduling a meeting visible from?
[19:17] <cjohnston> define scheduling
[19:17] <cjohnston> moving it to the correct slot
[19:17] <cjohnston> proposing a meeting
[19:17] <cjohnston> ...
[19:17] <jcastro> no, the link that says "create a meeting", etc.
[19:17] <jcastro> are those visible to everyone or just people like me?
[19:18] <jcastro> like on the uds-q page
[19:18] <cjohnston> non-schedulers/leads see propose a meeting
[19:18] <jcastro> oh ok, so that's the problem right there, easy
[19:18] <jcastro> remove the link! :)
[19:18] <jcastro> people see the link and think that's the way to propose a session
[19:21] <cjohnston> jcastro: so how do you address the complaints that its too hard to get a meeting scheduled
[19:21] <cjohnston> g2g.. bbiab
[19:21] <jcastro> ok so the track leads have access to that
[19:21] <jcastro> and during UDS they go see michelle
[19:25] <jcastro> cjohnston: mhall119 ok I will respond to this, I think I know what they want
[20:14] <jcastro> cjohnston: mhall119: It used to take me like 3 hours to schedule plenaries
[20:14] <jcastro> 10 minutes now
[20:14] <jcastro> I hear you all.
[20:14] <jcastro> I meant, I <3 you all
[20:15]  * cjohnston goes to remove the link like jcastro wants and decline all of the plenaries
[20:15] <jcastro> sweet!
[20:15] <mhall119> lol
[20:15] <jcastro> cjohnston: wait to see what the other track leads say
[20:15] <jussi> akgraner: you have a bronze star? wow!
[20:15] <jcastro> and then you can just send them a mail "here's the cheater schedule link"
[20:16] <balloons> jcastro, mhall119 cjohnston thanks for the education ;-)
[20:16] <jcastro> balloons: basically, yell at people
[20:16] <jcastro> if their BPs aren't in by like, tomorrow then they are behind
[20:16] <jcastro> you need to be a total brutal jerk
[20:16] <jcastro> and then their UDS will be smooth
[20:17] <balloons> jcastro, my issue is actually QA blueprints are in other tracks I'm finding
[20:17] <balloons> lots in other and foundations.. some other places maybe?
[20:17] <jcastro> yeah
[20:17] <cjohnston> jcastro: balloons one problem we have is that (and part of it is my fault) we are a week from UDS.. The Linaro leads who care follow Summit development follow it.. none of the UDS leads have..
[20:17] <jcastro> balloons: I don't think you should change this now
[20:17] <cjohnston> I don't have a way to turn it off for a "set" of people
[20:17] <balloons> jcastro, why not?
[20:17] <jcastro> but it might be worth investigating a QA track be service oriented like they made the kernel track
[20:18] <balloons> is there a good definition for the intent of a track?
[20:18] <cjohnston> i could turn the link off for everyone and if a track lead has bookmarked the  url for create a meeting they can use it
[20:18] <jcastro> balloons: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-q/tracks
[20:18] <jcastro> cjohnston: the track leads who care do.
[20:19] <jcastro> do you see any problems with any of the server/cloud sessions? NOPE. :)
[20:19] <cjohnston> this is the first feedback ive gotten
[20:19] <jcastro> well, balloons is new
[20:19] <jcastro> and steve assumes that all track leads run things the same way
[20:20] <cjohnston> I blame balloons for not creating a checkbox app for this
[20:20] <jcastro> he just doesn't realize that he wants to send a runner to michelle
[20:20] <jcastro> instead of open scheduling
[20:20] <jcastro> he just wasn't around when we tried that and UDS almost fell apart.
[20:20] <cjohnston> I remember some of those times where people just moved stuff
[20:20] <jcastro> yeah, entire rooms being wrong, etc.
[20:20] <jcastro> inconveniencing 5 people is the lesser evil
[20:20] <cjohnston> and thats why in the middle of the night you started removing access then just did rm -rf *
[20:21] <jcastro> and other than adhoc sessions if you square away your schedule before you even get to UDS, those should be rare issues.
[20:21] <cjohnston> yup
[20:21] <jcastro> seriously, we published the open scheduling thing like a month ago
[20:21] <cjohnston> and there is always a summit meeting.. attend it
[20:21] <cjohnston> heh
[20:21] <jcastro> if you show up on monday moring (DX did this all the time), then your UDS will suck
[20:22] <balloons> jcastro, what do you mean this is new?
[20:22] <balloons> cjohnston, summit is nice.. could you imagine life without it?
[20:22] <cjohnston> balloons: yes, I can..
[20:22] <balloons> you can always remind them of the alternative.. hehe
[20:22] <cjohnston> I would sleep at night
[20:22] <jcastro> balloons: no I mean you're new, so it's natural for you to assume that scheduling things by hand as a track lead would work.
[20:22] <cjohnston> I can have a peacefull night
[20:22] <cjohnston> I would have hair again
[20:23] <balloons> ohh. no, no.. lol
[20:23] <cjohnston> My blueprints are 5 months old
[20:23] <balloons> I was just echoing some of his concerns
[20:23] <cjohnston> for this UDS
[20:23] <balloons> the auto-schedule is sane.. me being able to move beforehand has been nice
[20:23] <cjohnston> thats the way it is
[20:23] <balloons> basically it sounds like the "i am essential" button is just abused
[20:23] <jcastro> balloons: what you want to do is have it 90% done before you leave
[20:23] <cjohnston> yes
[20:23] <balloons> and everything else is just papering over it
[20:24] <jcastro> so when you show up at UDS you're doing exception handling, not scheduling
[20:24] <cjohnston> balloons: one thing to think about.. if you manually schedule a meeting, the autoscheduler will not move it again.. so this can create issues
[20:24] <cjohnston> if too many meetings get hand scheduled
[20:24] <balloons> cjohnston, :-(
[20:24] <balloons> that's sad
[20:24] <balloons> i did it will almost all of mine
[20:24] <balloons> they got clumped up on one day
[20:24] <cjohnston> right
[20:24] <balloons> not ideal for me
[20:24] <cjohnston> cause there are so few
[20:24] <cjohnston> that they are going it
[20:25] <cjohnston> the scheduler starts looking at monday at 9am
[20:25] <balloons> yea.. it was weird tho
[20:25] <balloons> it put them all on weds
[20:25] <balloons> despite space on the previous days
[20:25] <cjohnston> heh
[20:25] <jcastro> balloons: yeah so this is the evening out I talk about in that mail
[20:25] <jcastro> you want to open up all your days
[20:25] <jcastro> and even things out
[20:25] <cjohnston> maybe just peopple availability
[20:25] <jcastro> and if you do it nowish you'll be set
[20:25] <balloons> anyways.. they are evened out
[20:25] <balloons> have been since last week
[20:25] <jcastro> good good
[20:26]  * cjohnston goes to mess with balloons sessions
[20:26] <balloons> but.. cjohnston says now they can't be autosechedled?
[20:26] <cjohnston> I'll put them all on Sunday
[20:26] <balloons> awesome!
[20:26] <balloons> i'll be set for the week then
[20:26] <cjohnston> once you manually schedule it, the autoscheduler wont touch them
[20:26] <cjohnston> because it assumes that you require it to be at that time in that room
[20:26] <balloons> let's do the KDE thing here cjohnston and make it optionally
[20:26] <cjohnston> I dont follow
[20:26]  * balloons grins
[20:27] <balloons> lol.. I want to optional tell the autoscheduler to schedule or not
[20:27] <jcastro> no!
[20:27]  * balloons is joking
[20:27] <cjohnston> move it or dont move it.. thats the option
[20:27] <balloons> my point is.. once I moved it, I can't undo it
[20:27] <balloons> correct?
[20:27] <balloons> so my sessions are all on manual mode now
[20:27] <balloons> well.. not all, but.. you get it
[20:27] <cjohnston> I think if you put it back in the bar it may go back to auto
[20:28] <balloons> ahh.. if I move to unscheduled, it will randomly re-assign
[20:28] <cjohnston> I think
[20:28] <cjohnston> do you have a meeting we can look at?
[20:28] <cjohnston> let me find it in the admin
[20:28] <cjohnston> then move it to the bar
[20:28] <cjohnston> and ill let you know what summit does in the back end?
[20:28] <cjohnston> not a bad thing to know
[20:28] <balloons> lol... my precious spots!
[20:28] <cjohnston> heh
[20:29] <akgraner> jussi - yeah - I thought I lost it in the fire but I found the certificate today and cleaned it up. :-)
[20:30] <balloons> cjohnston, jcastro yea.. I don't think I will have issues, but we'll see.. should be fun to see how things work out in practice.. it's just funny that if I manually set a session, and then later people mark as needing to be there it won't move it.. that's a bit sad
[20:30] <jcastro> I hate to sound cold
[20:30] <cjohnston> because it assumes that you need it at that time
[20:30] <balloons> it's a catch 22 you can't win.. if you restrict the autoschedule it can't do it's work for you
[20:30] <jcastro> but really, those people should have registered with LP a month ago
[20:31] <cjohnston> +1
[20:31] <jcastro> with their information
[20:31] <jcastro> and then subscribe to their blueprints
[20:31] <cjohnston> jcastro: can we start making a big push at B2 or RC to do this? like weekly emails
[20:31] <balloons> jcastro, dream bug
[20:31] <balloons> *big
[20:31] <mhall119> balloons: don't manually schedule things unless they need to be at a specific time or room
[20:32] <balloons> me manually scheduling things makes everything worse
[20:32] <mhall119> manually scheduling almost always does
[20:32] <balloons> it would be best for everyone if no one had control ;-)
[20:32] <mhall119> chaos, it's how we roll
[20:32]  * balloons for one welcomes my summit scheduling UDS overlord
[20:32] <jcastro> cjohnston: like I said before, the track leads who care about it don't have problems
[20:33] <cjohnston> balloons: we tried that.. people get mad at that too
[20:33] <mhall119> careful balloons, cjohnston *is* the summit scheduling overlord
[20:33] <balloons> cjohnston, I know.. because everyone is selfish and wants to be the master and have priority
[20:33] <balloons> if we are truly selfless, the auto scheduler will schedule the best possible schedule for the entire group.. but your schedule may suffer for it
[20:34] <balloons> no one wants to be that fall guy, so :-0
[20:34] <balloons> and it all rolls back to people checking the must attend button for no reason :-)
[20:35] <balloons> btw, can I uncheck people as necessary to attend?
[20:35] <mhall119> balloons: actually letting the autoscheduler do its job usually works out pretty well
[20:35]  * balloons notes that would be delightfully fun and evil
[20:35] <cjohnston> balloons: if the meeting is created in summit yes.. lp i dont think so
[20:36] <balloons> ok, so I'm going to un-manually schedule all my meetings in an attempt to reset them to auto mode
[20:36] <balloons> I'll go big
[20:36] <balloons> cjohnston, care to watch and confirm this works?
[20:37] <cjohnston> balloons: lets start with one..
[20:37] <jcastro> this will either be awesome
[20:37] <jcastro> or epic fail
[20:37] <cjohnston> pick one and give me the url please
[20:37]  * jcastro gets popcorn
[20:37]  * balloons grabbing the screenshot or it didn't happen
[20:37] <cjohnston> lol
[20:38] <balloons> cjohnston, https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/qa-q-qa-testing-cadence
[20:38] <cjohnston> ok.. ill tell you when to do it
[20:38] <cjohnston> 1 sec
[20:39] <cjohnston> ok
[20:39] <cjohnston> move it
[20:40] <balloons> k, moved into the grey bar
[20:40] <cjohnston> ok
[20:40] <cjohnston> ok..
[20:40] <cjohnston> its no longer an agenda item
[20:40] <cjohnston> so it should reschedule
[20:40] <cjohnston> we will see
[20:40] <balloons> let's watch
[20:41] <balloons> maybe I'll get my spot back? :-)
[20:41] <cjohnston> lol
[20:41] <cjohnston> i think its 20ish minutes
[20:41] <pleia2> jcastro: need to me take care of adding sessions to the calendar so classbot can pick them up?
[20:41]  * balloons comes up with master plan of resetting his meetings at 3 am after grabbing prime slots at beta2 during the cycle ;-0
[20:41] <jcastro> oh yes please, I ddin't even notice that.
[20:42] <pleia2> jcastro: ok, I'll do that tonight
[20:42] <jcastro> <3
[20:45] <cjohnston> jcastro: perfect example of a lack of following instructions https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/topic-quantal-hwe-essential
[20:45] <cjohnston> I see at least 3 issues
[20:46] <cjohnston> hrm
[20:46]  * jcastro fixes
[20:46] <cjohnston> looks like that is setup for status
[20:46] <cjohnston> hold on
[20:46] <cjohnston> ya..
[20:46] <cjohnston> that is supposed to be a status.u.c setup
[20:46] <cjohnston> its a meeting in summit
[20:46] <cjohnston> theres a problem
[20:46] <cjohnston> heh
[20:47] <cjohnston> cause they made it a sprint
[20:48] <jcastro> k, let me whine at vanhoof
[20:48]  * cjohnston is going to send an email to MSM to make sure that all BP problems are directed at jcastro instead of cjohnston2
[20:48] <cjohnston> or cjohnston
[20:49] <jcastro> what? No
[20:49] <jcastro> scheduling problems go to track leads
[20:49] <jcastro> same as before
[20:49] <cjohnston> they always come to me because the track leads cant figure out why the BP isnt being scheduled
[20:49] <jcastro> which track lead?
[20:49] <cjohnston> "why isnt this meeting being imported"
[20:50] <cjohnston> i dunno... I get pinged my MSM
[20:57] <cjohnston> jcastro: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/certify-planning/+spec/cert-q-12.10coverage
[20:57] <cjohnston> there are a few of those
[20:57] <cjohnston> wrong names
[21:02] <balloons> cjohnston, it did move
[21:02] <balloons> http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-q/meeting/20465/qa-q-qa-testing-cadence/
[21:02] <balloons> and I didn't get my spot back :-(
[21:03] <balloons> something else immeadiately took it
[21:03] <balloons> so, is there a way to know what i've turned off auto schedule?
[21:03] <balloons> I'd like to undo this faux pas
[21:04] <cjohnston> heh
[21:04] <cjohnston> you just want alot of work from me
[21:04] <cjohnston> huh
[21:04]  * balloons is trying to learn
[21:05] <cjohnston> not without making mhall119 go through the admin area and looking
[21:05] <balloons> I am happy to be your model track lead cjohnston.. giving you only pleasant thoughts and dreams
[21:05] <cjohnston> bug mhall119 and you ill be
[21:05] <balloons> there's only like 4 or 5 I would have messed with
[21:05] <cjohnston> will be
[21:06] <cjohnston> can you give me some sort of something to look for
[21:06] <jcastro> <--- EOD, see yall in Oakland
[21:06] <cjohnston> qa-*
[21:06] <cjohnston> or something
[21:06]  * balloons waves at jcastro
[21:06] <cjohnston> jcastro: not allowed
[21:06] <balloons> cjohnston, yes.. qa-q-
[21:06] <balloons> I can name them all
[21:06] <cjohnston> balloons: give me some time
[21:06] <balloons> they are all assigned to me also
[21:07] <balloons> I moved none of the others
[21:07] <balloons> cjohnston, thanks.. I appreciate all the info
[21:09] <cjohnston> qa-q-iso-testing-process
[21:10] <cjohnston> qa-q-isotracker-testcases
[21:10] <cjohnston> qa-q-community
[21:10] <cjohnston> qa-q-manual-app-testing
[21:13] <balloons> cjohnston, ok I'll move all those to the grey bar and watch the magic
[21:13] <cjohnston> :-)
[21:15] <balloons> done deal
[21:16] <cjohnston> jcastro: there are probably minimum of 8 blueprints that are wrong.. and thats just the names of the blueprints.. i didnt look for other issues... its quite error prone
[21:17] <jcastro> this is why I said the scheduler should use the launchpad APi for things proposed to the sprint instead of the actual name of the blueprint
[21:18] <cjohnston> how would that work with tracks?
[21:18] <jcastro> tracks in LP itself for sprints
[21:18] <cjohnston> good luck
[21:19] <cjohnston> maybe you can visit the launchpad clinic with that :-)
[21:22] <czajkowski> if the bug is on the wiki shouldnt be a problem
[21:22] <czajkowski> and gmb can help work on things
[21:32] <mhall119> jcastro: see you in Atlanta
[22:03] <jono> jcastro, mhall119 around?
[22:05] <jono> anyone else want to test 0.1 of accomplishments?
[22:08] <daker_> jono: me me me me
[22:09] <jono> daker :-)
[22:09] <jono> daker go to https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-accomplishments/+archive/releases/+packages
[22:09] <jono> and install all three packages
[22:09] <jono> daker have you playied with accomplishments before?
[22:10] <daker_> no :)
[22:10] <daker_> jono: ^
[22:10] <jono> daker cool
[22:10] <jono> install all those packages and let me know when you are ready
[22:11] <daker_> AWE, no packages for oneric :/
[22:12] <jono> daker this requires 12.04
[22:13] <daker_> yeah i saw that
[22:13] <daker_> no worries
[22:15] <jono> daker do you have 12.04?
[22:23] <daker_> jono: 11.10
[22:24] <balloons> jono, I can install ;-)
[22:26] <balloons> k, installed.
[22:26] <balloons> started, and boom.. got a crash dialog box
[22:26] <jono> one sec balloons
[22:26] <jono> we found a bug, I am revving it
[22:26] <balloons> crash was with twistd
[22:27] <jono> yup it is a logging issue
[22:27] <balloons> k -- you want this error -- dbusexception not provided by any .service files?
[22:45] <jono> balloons, looks like we found a last minute bug
[22:46] <jono> if the .cache/accomplishments/logs dir doesnt exist it bombs
[22:46] <jono> balloons, if you want to test in the meantime to the following:
[22:46] <jono> killall -9 twistd
[22:46] <jono> cd .cache
[22:46] <jono> mkdir accomplishments/logs
[22:46] <jono> cd .local/share
[22:46] <jono> rm -rf accomplishments
[22:46] <jono> and then run accomplishments-viewer


[00:03] <SpamapS> Hmm.. weird problem here.. after a successful install hook..
[00:03] <SpamapS> http://paste.ubuntu.com/698811/
[00:14] <jimbaker> SpamapS, trying to think where to start there with that (twisted's reactor structure makes such output frequently useless)
[00:15] <jimbaker> SpamapS, is it related at all to the bug you just reported (bug 861298)?
[00:15] <_mup_> Bug #861298: libasound2 addition to linaro-x11-base seems suspicious <Linaro Seeds:New> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/861298 >
[00:15] <SpamapS> jimbaker: I'm betting that the ZK connection failed for some reason... and it just needs to be handled/reconnected
[00:15] <jimbaker> (wrong bug # obviously)
[00:15] <SpamapS> jimbaker: same env, but I don't think its related no
[00:17] <jimbaker> SpamapS, so is the agent still running on that node?
[00:18] <SpamapS> jimbaker: oo, darn, I destroyed the env.. didn't check
[00:18] <jimbaker> SpamapS, making agents robust against failure with upstart is something we discussed, i assume it's still not there yet
[00:19] <jimbaker> SpamapS, no worries, random failures are easy enough to recreate ;)
[00:19] <jimbaker> (of the sort seen here, seriously)
[00:19] <SpamapS> jimbaker: I'll report it if I see it again
[00:19] <SpamapS> this particular case is a *very* busy nova compute machine
[00:20] <SpamapS> so its entirely possible that ZK was overwhelmed or something else weird happened
[00:20] <jimbaker> SpamapS, ahh, that will much more likely expose things
[00:21] <jimbaker> SpamapS, also i need to review https://code.launchpad.net/~hazmat/txzookeeper/errors-with-path/+merge/77254, this looks good for getting somewhat better info - knowing the actual path is a pretty big signal, especially as we add more nodes
[00:22] <SpamapS> +1 for that
[00:22] <SpamapS> useful errors was a theme of an entire month of development we did at my last job
[00:23] <SpamapS> Because we had so many confused 3 hour pager responses where you spent 3 hours just trying to figure out WTF happened
[00:24] <fwereade> jimbaker, SpamapS: upstart is rather critical for orchestra too, I think it's likely to be top of my list as soon as I'm not thinking about the charm store
[00:24] <jimbaker> i do wonder if niemeyer is trying to intentionally pun on wtf with the waterfall at http://wtf.labix.org/wtf/
[00:24] <jimbaker> i'm sure he is
[00:24] <niemeyer> jimbaker: Yes :-)
[00:26] <fwereade> potential recursive acronym, too: WTF Test Failures
[00:26] <niemeyer> fwereade: Hah, nice
[00:27] <fwereade> niemeyer: if anyone asks, you could say that, and act all mystified -- "does WTF stand for something else as well? goodness me!"
[00:27] <niemeyer> fwereade: Totally :-
[00:27] <niemeyer> )
[00:29] <jimbaker> biab, i'm going to hang out over at the python in the cloud meetup going on locally in boulder shortly
[00:30] <jimbaker> someone will be demoing some sort of python mgmt tool for running apps in ec2
[00:44] <fwereade> niemeyer: ok, I thought I was ready to merge resolve-formula-names (hm, which should be called merge-charm-names)
[00:44] <fwereade> niemeyer: then I thought the breaking UI changes might need some documentations
[00:45] <fwereade> niemeyer: ...then I thought "NO TIME NO TIME"
[00:45] <fwereade> niemeyer: er, opinions?
[00:45] <niemeyer> fwereade: Hm
[00:46] <niemeyer> fwereade: One thing we definitely have to do is sending a mail to ensemble@ pointing out what is going on, how the interface is changing, and why
[00:47] <fwereade> niemeyer: indeed -- shall I try to get that in before the merge?
[00:49] <niemeyer> fwereade: Yeah, it feels like a good idea to point to people in sync with the merge
[00:49] <niemeyer> fwereade: So that trunk users will get to know about it
[00:49] <niemeyer> fwereade: and PPA users in a bit
[00:50] <fwereade> niemeyer: ok, I'll write something up now
[00:50] <fwereade> niemeyer: still<EMAIL_ADDRESS>then?
[01:09] <hazmat> Talk done!.. wahoo..
[01:09] <hazmat> its very easy to slip up charm/formula
[01:17] <niemeyer> jimbaker: and the saga continues..
[01:17] <niemeyer> hazmat: Woohay
[01:17] <niemeyer> hazmat: how was it?
[01:21] <niemeyer> fwereade: Sorry
[01:21] <niemeyer> fwereade: juju@
[01:22] <niemeyer> fwereade: As hazmat just said, easy to slip :)
[01:22] <fwereade> niemeyer: absolutely :)
[01:22] <fwereade> niemeyer: I wondered if you meant it, because I could swear I signed up to juju@ but still seem to be getting all my mails from ensemble@
[01:24] <niemeyer> fwereade: Hmm.. there's an alias between them so it continues working
[01:24] <niemeyer> fwereade: I don't think we should be getting emails from the old address, though
[01:25] <fwereade> niemeyer: don't worry about it, I'll double-check, maybe aI got confused around the changeover
[01:28] <niemeyer> fwereade: What might be going on is that people (like me!) are still using the old address
[01:30] <fwereade> niemeyer: ah, could be
[01:33] <jimbaker> niemeyer, the company is opdemand, they are currently demoing wordpress ;)
[01:33] <jimbaker> http://www.opdemand.com/
[01:35] <jimbaker> they publish information from one tier to another tier
[01:39] <niemeyer> jimbaker: pvt
[01:50] <hazmat> ouch just got dissed hard by the opscode (adam) from stage
[01:50] <hazmat> idempotency... see me after class
[02:01] <niemeyer> hazmat: Very noble of him :-)
[02:06] <niemeyer> hazmat: The best answer to a public insult is making juju rock harder
[02:08] <_mup_> juju/env-origin r374 committed by<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[02:08] <_mup_> Fixed review points
[02:15] <_mup_> juju/env-origin r375 committed by<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[02:15] <_mup_> Merged trunk
[05:16] <jimbaker> oh, i'm glad i just tried running ./test against trunk, the failures are there, not in the merge with env-origin
[05:19] <SpamapS> we should rename the juju binary to just jj
[05:20] <jimbaker> SpamapS, please don't give anyone any ideas on that ;)
[05:21] <jimbaker> SpamapS, i assume you're seeing the same failure as here: http://wtf.labix.org/366/unittests.out.FAILED
[05:23] <jimbaker> looks like it was introduced in r365
[05:23] <jimbaker> bcsaller, have you tried looking at trunk since your merge?
[05:28] <bcsaller> jimbaker: yeah, its a known issue, sorry. Still trying to get omega in the proper state to merge, it was missing some tests and we know how testing goes... esp. with this level of system interaction
[05:28] <jimbaker> bcsaller, ok, thanks for the update
[05:28] <bcsaller> jimbaker: it happened because lxc-lib is a prereq to omega but other thing depending on it got merged first
[05:30] <jimbaker> bcsaller, ok, makes sense
[05:30] <jimbaker> presumably one of these things corrects the ppa name too
[05:31] <jimbaker> although i would expect the bridge to the support of juju-origin in my env-origin branch would take care of that regardless
[05:33] <bcsaller> jimbaker: it will, but I think I will do that in a subsequent branch, using the ppa to get started with local dev (and fixing trunk tonight) seems fine
[05:35] <_mup_> juju/env-origin r376 committed by<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[05:35] <_mup_> Merged trunk
[05:36] <jimbaker> bcsaller, sounds like a good plan to me
[05:36] <bcsaller> cool
[05:52] <SpamapS> jimbaker: I don't like typing juju .. its all right index finger.. jj would be a nice shortened version. :)
[05:52] <SpamapS> we can just symlink it in the package. :)
[05:53] <jimbaker> SpamapS, i wonder if my typing here is canonical - i use index for j, middle for u, so it's not as bad in this case
[05:54] <jimbaker> (that's probably a misuse of canonical...)
[05:54] <jimbaker> (more like standard i guess)
[05:59] <jimbaker> fwereade, is local resolution of charms now broken?
[06:00] <jimbaker> i noticed the change to the series, but i'm seeing this on the machine agent
[06:02] <jimbaker> fwereade, so i'm seeing this, http://paste.ubuntu.com/698912/ - anyway, i guess it will have to wait until tomorrow, just using irc async here :)
[06:07] <jimbaker> SpamapS, apparently my typing is nonstandard. darn. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Touch_typing
[06:29] <SpamapS> jimbaker: very nonstandard, I don't even know how you reach u with your middle finger
[06:47] <SpamapS> fwereade: one thing about this breakage.. now any version before this is completely broken because the PPA package wants local: prefixed
[06:47] <SpamapS> CharmStateNotFound: Charm 'local:hadoop-slave-1' was not found
[06:48] <SpamapS> thats not something you mentioned in your email. :-/
[07:28] <_mup_> juju/env-origin r377 committed by<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[07:28] <_mup_> Remove tabs in rst file
[09:14] <rog> hurray, all tests pass
[10:36] <fwereade> rog: belated /cheer
[10:36] <rog> :-)
[10:37] <rog> my computer made the requisite sound effect when you mentioned my name
[10:37] <rog> well ok, it was a sort of bleep, but close enough
[10:37] <fwereade> rog: haha, awesome
[10:49] <fwereade> SpamapS: hm, I hadn't considered that side effect
[10:53] <fwereade> SpamapS: I kinda feel that we're still (just barely) in "developing, expect breakage" mode, and so it's (just barely) acceptable, if annoying
[10:54] <fwereade> SpamapS: am I right in thinking that error shows up when you have an env running, you upgrade juju locally, and then try to issue commands to the env running the old version?
[10:55] <fwereade> SpamapS: ...or, yes, also if you try to run any older version against the PPA
[10:55] <fwereade> SpamapS: is my interpretation sane?
[13:59] <_mup_> Bug #862415 was filed: Juju bootstrap node disappearance <juju:New> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/862415 >
[14:03] <_mup_> Bug #862417 was filed: Cloud Foundry server charm was not found on the instance <cloud> <foundry> <juju:New> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/862417 >
[14:04] <_mup_> Bug #862418 was filed: Add a way to show warning/error messages back to the user <juju:New> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/862418 >
[14:04] <_mup_> Bug #862417 was filed: Cloud Foundry server charm was not found on the instance <cloud> <foundry> <juju:New> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/862417 >
[14:06] <lynxman> SpamapS: whenever you're awake, let me know if you have the final juju package for oneiric :)
[14:07] <_mup_> Bug #862422 was filed: Add a "block" add/remove unit hook <juju:New> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/862422 >
[14:19] <rog> i can never remember where to create a new issue for code review...
[14:37] <rog> is it standard to always create a new branch when making some changes? if i haven't done that, how can i change the branch name?
[14:39] <fwereade> rog: depends: if I'm doing a significant chunk of work I'll start by branching, if I'm just (say) addressing a minor review point in an existing branch I'll continue the existing one
[14:40] <fwereade> rog: there's a line between them but I find its location varies with my current levels of optimism, forgetfulness, foolishness
[14:41] <fwereade> rog: offhand, I'm not sure how best to retroactively branch something without the process being somewhat manual
[14:42] <fwereade> rog: you could just bzr diff --old=[revision you wanted to branch from] > somewhere
[14:42] <fwereade> rog: bzr revert -r [that revision again]
[14:42] <fwereade> rog: bzr commit
[14:42] <fwereade> rog: ...and then branch from there and apply the patch
[14:43] <fwereade> rog, and everyone else: if there's a better way I'd love to hear it :)
[14:43] <rog> at the moment, i'm trying a branch and then a merge with the changes i made in the old branch
[14:43] <rog> dunno if it'll work. we'll see.
[14:44] <fwereade> rog: I think I tried something like that once, and it went wrong -- if you then revert the parent branch, and *then* merge from it again, I think it'll try to apply your subsequent unchanges
[14:45] <fwereade> rog: ...er, if you see what I mean
[14:47] <rog> fwereade: hmm, not sure i do. is that something i shouldn't do, or something i will inevitably do?
[14:49] <rog> fwereade: it *seems* to have worked
[14:49] <rog> except the log history is no longer linear, which might be a problem
[14:49] <fwereade> rog: possibly I misunderstood what I did, or what you did
[14:50] <rog> i did: cd $HOME/gozk; bzr branch lp:gozk my-upcoming-revision; cd my-upcoming-revision; bzr merge ../zk; bzr commit
[14:50] <rog> where $HOME/gozk/zk was the place i'd been doing the edits
[14:55] <fwereade> rog: ah, yes, that sounds fine
[14:55] <fwereade> rog: I'd been imagining a situation where you'd made several commits already to the wrong branch
[14:56] <rog> fwereade: i made commits, but hadn't pushed
[14:57] <fwereade> rog: still sounds fine :)
[14:57] <rog> cool
[14:57]  * fwereade crosses fingers
[14:58]  * rog also crosses his fingers.
[15:04] <hazmat> bcsaller, none of the things that had lxc-lib as a pre-requisite got merged first.. they where using what was already committed to trunk
[15:05] <hazmat> lxc-lib-clone changed the api
[15:09] <jimbaker> hazmat, yes, that's what we are seeing on wtf.labix.org right now
[15:10] <hazmat> jimbaker, it should be okay after lxc-omega gets merged, but breaking trunk isn't
[15:10] <jimbaker> hazmat, agreed with that for sure
[15:11] <jimbaker> (invariably when trunk is broken and i do a merge, i blame my branch first. goose chase, not productive... anyway, it happens)
[15:17] <SpamapS> fwereade: yes, all older versions of juju break when they deploy because they pull from the PPA
[15:17] <SpamapS> fwereade: breaking stuff is fine, but telling us about it *well before* committing would be quite helpful.
[15:18] <SpamapS> why are we committing to trunk without running the test suite?
[15:19] <SpamapS> Every time I've merged one of my little fixes in, I merge and then run the test suite. :-P
[15:19] <jimbaker> SpamapS, fwereade, agreed. and announce it here would be nice. the other thing that bit me last night
[15:20] <fwereade> SpamapS, jimbaker: I'm sorry, it was entirely wrong to assume anyone else had the faintest idea what I was up to :(
[15:20] <fwereade> it never really crossed my mind that niemeyer and I had talked about it lots, but not with everyone
[15:21] <jimbaker>  fwereade, no worries, just some suggestions to get everyone in the loop first. this channel has its deficiencies, but i poll it much more frequently than email ;)
[15:21] <jimbaker> (much more signal for what i immediately need to know)
[15:22] <fwereade> jimbaker: definitely
[15:22] <SpamapS> At this point nobody can test the packages in 11.10 properly.. it only works by using juju-branch: lp:ubuntu/oneiric/juju   but thats not the end of the world
[15:23] <SpamapS> The email as great.. and its the only reason I didn't go "WTF!!" right away.. I knew what was up. Its just that the scope of the breakage may not have been fully explored. Given the velocity you all are maintaining, I'm not surprised (or upset :)
[15:23] <SpamapS> s/email as/email was/
[15:24] <fwereade> SpamapS: so, the stuff that's currently in 11.10 is old, and therefore broken; I had the impression we were planning to slip in a last-minute update (er... tonight?) with lxc stuff, and origin stuff ...and this stuff
[15:25] <fwereade> SpamapS: and that implies the breakage is at least somewhat temporary
[15:25] <fwereade> SpamapS: have I misunderstood the plans?
[15:26] <SpamapS> we are planning to update again. The point of updating before then though, was to allow testing of what was done up until now.
[15:27] <fwereade> SpamapS: indeed :(
[15:27] <SpamapS> Don't worry, I totally understand the implications and reasons behind this incompatible change. I'm only frustrated that I pushed so hard to get a somewhat new version in that is totally broken. :-/
[15:28] <SpamapS> "old" is the revision from Monday morning btw.
[15:28] <fwereade> SpamapS: and now you're stuck only able to test the moving target that is trunk :(
[15:28] <SpamapS> No I can test using juju-branch:
[15:28] <fwereade> SpamapS: heh, "old" is everything before this morning :(
[15:28] <fwereade> SpamapS: ah, good
[15:29] <fwereade> SpamapS: which is to say, "less bad"
[15:29] <fwereade> SpamapS: in future I will definitely make sure people know of breaking changes well in advance (if I can't avoid making them at all)
[15:30] <fwereade> SpamapS: is there anything I can do to mitigate the pain now?
[15:30] <SpamapS> no. :-/
[15:30] <SpamapS> Just git 'er done. :)
[15:31] <SpamapS> seriously, ignore my whining.. you all have important work to do.
[15:31] <fwereade> yeah, but so do you, and I'm sorry to have disrupted it :(
[15:32] <SpamapS> It only means the bugs that I might find now will be found after you're done.. and you'll have more of a time crunch to fix them next week.
[15:33] <SpamapS> fwereade: please don't feel guilty in any way. You guys can't stop for every squirrel crossing the road. ;)
[15:34] <fwereade> SpamapS: don't worry, I'm neither sobbing nor rending my clothes
[15:34] <fwereade> SpamapS: still wish I'd done it differently, but we live and learn ;)
[15:35] <jimbaker> fwereade, please no self-flagellation, ok? ;)
[15:36] <rog> jimbaker: i've just pushed a new gozk merge request. any comments or feedback welcome.
[15:36] <rog> https://code.launchpad.net/~rogpeppe/gozk/update-event-interface/+merge/77560
[15:37] <jimbaker> rog, thanks!
[15:37] <robbiew> SpamapS: so basically all charms are broken now, right?
[15:37]  * robbiew notes this is why we need juju pulling from the archive at release...not a ppa :/
[15:38] <robbiew> I realize we need this change to allow for the store to work...which means **WE** will need to fix everyone's charm before release
[15:38] <robbiew> not fair to expect authors to go back and do that now, imo
[15:38] <robbiew> and apparently there's no legacy support :/
[15:40] <SpamapS> robbiew: all charms and all juju deployments from 11.10 are broken, yes.  Tracking in bug 828147
[15:40] <_mup_> Bug #828147: Ensemble branch option needs to allow for distro pkg, ppa, and source branch install <cloudfoundry:New> <juju:In Progress by jimbaker> <juju (Ubuntu):Triaged by clint-fewbar> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/828147 >
[15:41] <robbiew> awesome
[15:41] <SpamapS> robbiew: there is a workaround, which is to add 'juju-branch: lp:ubuntu/oneiric/juju' to your environment config
[15:42] <jimbaker> robbiew, really hope that branch gets approved soon
[15:42] <jimbaker> in terms of env-origin
[15:42] <robbiew> jimbaker: that change must get in
[15:42] <robbiew> agreed
[15:42] <SpamapS> The alternative is to patch the distro version to default to pulling from the distro. I've tried that in a privately built package and it works fine, but the problem is the deployed provisioning agent then still has the distro version deploying from _PPA ..
[15:43] <SpamapS> Anyway, the best thing to do is probably to just test from the PPA.. ignore the distro package.. and try to help these guys finish off the work so we can upload "the real juju" ASAP
[15:44] <robbiew> agreed
[15:44] <robbiew> a hack in the distro is suboptimal
[15:44] <SpamapS> worst case.. if something goes horribly wrong and we can't do that.. we can regress the PPA to the distro version and move daily builds to a different PPA.
[15:44] <robbiew> if env-origin works, then we can just use that set to the archive, right?
[15:45] <jimbaker> fwereade, re robbiew's point - the backwards breaking change seems to be only to change the directory structure. i understand with the juju rename there's been some drastic changes already. but we could make it easier possibly by assuming oneiric
[15:45] <SpamapS> robbiew: env-origin is intelligent, and chooses distro when your client version came from the distro
[15:45] <robbiew> cool
[15:45] <SpamapS> Its probably going to break horribly on OS X tho. :P
[15:45] <jimbaker> robbiew, env-origin does the right thing
[15:45] <jimbaker> SpamapS, it doesn't know about os x yet
[15:46] <SpamapS> jimbaker: it shouldn't really. Serious users will probably be very explicit about their environments.yaml
[15:46] <jimbaker> SpamapS, the workaround is to set juju-origin manually
[15:46] <jimbaker> SpamapS, agreed
[15:46] <jimbaker> SpamapS, it might be something as simple as that for os x/non ubuntu clients, it basically insists that this setting be made
[15:47] <SpamapS> Actually I think it should just choose distro at that point.
[15:48] <jimbaker> SpamapS, also a reasonable choice
[15:48] <SpamapS> hmm.. something's borked with juju-branch too actually
[15:49] <SpamapS> Ahh, my AMI's are out of date and couldn't download packages.
[15:52] <fwereade> SpamapS, jimbaker: it seems that it would be better to insist on explicit default-series *everywhere* than to special-case non-ubuntu
[15:53] <jimbaker> fwereade, certainly a valid point. being clever can surprise
[15:53] <fwereade> SpamapS: that would mean everybody had to change their environments.yaml, though, which is maybe too much to expect
[15:55] <fwereade> SpamapS, jimbaker: if that would be acceptable, though, it feels like the Right Thing to me
[15:56] <robbiew> I guess the big problem we need to resolve is broken existing charms...and getting them fixed asap
[15:56] <robbiew> the change is in...and newer charms will be written accordingly
[15:57] <robbiew> for example...our much talked about cloudfoundry charm is now broken :/
[15:57] <robbiew> we need that working by release
[15:57] <robbiew> and so on
[15:57] <fwereade> robbiew, SpamapS: are we saying that *charms* are broken, or that *repositories* are broken?
[15:57] <RoAkSoAx> hazmat: ping?
[15:57] <jimbaker> fwereade, but as i understand it, the charms are not themselves broken by this change, it's how we refer to them in terms of their repository structure and when deployed?
[15:58] <fwereade> jimbaker: that's exactly what I'm fretting about
[15:58] <jimbaker> fwereade, exactly
[15:58] <fwereade> :)
[15:58] <jimbaker> fwereade, i looked at the change in trunk. the sole change to the example charms, which should be reasonable for any other charms, is moving the files around one level
[15:59] <jimbaker> (reasonable, as in talking about other charms, that is)
[15:59] <fwereade> jimbaker: exactly, I don't believe that any charms are themselves broken
[15:59] <robbiew> right....sorry...you are correct
[15:59] <fwereade> jimbaker: every repository outside the source tree is, though
[15:59] <jimbaker> now there is certainly broken code out there that manages this process
[16:00] <jimbaker> so pretty much everyone has their own script to deploy a stack of apps. no one is typing it in again and again
[16:00] <jimbaker> that's broken now
[16:00] <robbiew> exactly...nothing we can do about that though...sed/awk to the rescue there
[16:00] <jimbaker> but a trivial fix to add in the right locator info
[16:01] <jimbaker> the only challenge is that it totally sucks when they are deployed
[16:01] <fwereade> jimbaker: we discussed defaulting to "local:" when --repository is given, but that causes us more problems down the line
[16:01] <robbiew> fwereade: ftr, I'm happy this change has gone in...as we need it for the Charm Collection/store thingy ;)
[16:01] <jimbaker> errors are nontransparent, and show up in debug logs
[16:02] <fwereade> jimbaker: bad-repo errors, right?
[16:03] <jimbaker> fwereade, i forget specifics, i made a paste on this last night
[16:03] <fwereade> jimbaker: hopefully "cs:blah/blah not found in repo https://store.juju.ubuntu.com" is reasonably clear?
[16:03] <jimbaker> let me see if i can dig it up
[16:03] <fwereade> jimbaker: but I suspect it's not so nice if the repo has the wrog structure
[16:03] <jimbaker> fwereade, depends on where it is. if from the command line, cool
[16:04] <jimbaker> if it is in the debug-log, not so cool
[16:04] <jimbaker> way too buried. yes, i will go there. but even for me it's an extra step to ssh in to find what's happening, and i know what i'm looking for
[16:05] <fwereade> hm, yes :(
[16:05] <jimbaker> there may be some gnashing and wailing and rending and tearing at the cheeks
[16:06] <fwereade> jimbaker ...but wait, when are we hitting repositories except from the command line?
[16:07] <jimbaker> fwereade, need to dig up this error for you...
[16:07] <fwereade> jimbaker: thanks
[16:09] <jimbaker> fwereade, lost it. i will have to recreate. hopefully not some dream from last night...
[16:11] <fwereade> jimbaker: np, although from my perspective I kinda hope it *is* a dream
[16:11] <fwereade> ;)
[16:11] <SpamapS> robbiew: the cloudfoundry charms should work w/ the PPA
[16:12] <robbiew> SpamapS: cool, thx
[16:17] <fwereade> jimbaker: you have reminded me of one possibility, can I get a +1 trivial on http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/699194/ please?
[16:20] <jimbaker> fwereade, looking at it now
[16:20] <SpamapS> Hey didn't we introduce a schema version or something into ZK so that clients would detect when they are trying to twiddle an incompatible ZK?
[16:21] <SpamapS> Seems like this latest formula change woudl be a good time to bump that.
[16:21] <jimbaker> fwereade, so basically this covers a bad path
[16:21] <fwereade> jimbaker: yep, that's it
[16:21] <fwereade> jimbaker: it should just make the error clearer when people try to deploy from an un-upgraded local repo
[16:21] <jimbaker> fwereade, well +1, i assume this will not let it get into the bad state i discussed
[16:22] <jimbaker> SpamapS, yeah, we have that bit, it would be nice to use in this case. we have the power...
[16:22] <fwereade> jimbaker: it won't start or stop anything working, it'll just complain differently
[16:22] <jimbaker> fwereade, and i believe more importantly, complain earlier
[16:22] <jimbaker> and closer
[16:22] <fwereade> SpamapS, jimbaker: oh, blast, I thought that was discussed but not implemented
[16:23] <fwereade> jimbaker: indeed
[16:23] <jimbaker> fwereade, https://code.launchpad.net/~jimbaker/juju/verify-version/+merge/71559
[16:24] <jimbaker> fwereade, don't worry, i thought i knew what you were working on too
[16:24] <robbiew> lol
[16:24] <fwereade> haha
[16:24] <jimbaker> mostly right, but a few missing, possibly critical bits ;)
[16:27] <jimbaker> fwereade, so if you want to make a change to VERSION = 1 in ensemble.state.topology, that sounds like a trivial we might all approve
[16:27] <fwereade> jimbaker: was just about to suggest it :)
[16:28] <jimbaker> it complains early and close. almost all stuff goes through the topology
[16:28] <fwereade> jimbaker: for form's sake: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/699200/
[16:29] <jimbaker> sounds good, the minimum requirements specified in that comment have been satisfied, so +1 !
[16:30] <fwereade> jimbaker: cheers :)
[16:39] <rog> right, i'm off. it's an unseasonably warm and beautiful evening here. the garden calls. see you tomorrow.
[16:41] <jimbaker> rog, enjoy!
[16:52] <_mup_> Bug #862415 was filed: Juju bootstrap node disappearance <juju:New> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/862415 >
[16:53] <RoAkSoAx> b/win 2
[17:00] <Aram> hello.
[17:00] <Aram> will niemeyer be here later?
[17:01] <niemeyer> Hallo!
[17:02] <Aram> hi!
[17:03] <niemeyer> Aram: Hey Aram
[17:03] <niemeyer> bcsaller: ping
[17:03] <bcsaller> niemeyer: hey
[17:03] <niemeyer> bcsaller: Hey!
[17:04] <niemeyer> bcsaller: I see the problem not only isn't fixed, but it's getting worse: http://wtf.labix.org/
[17:04] <niemeyer> bcsaller: Can you please revert the change, if you can't make the tests work again?
[17:04] <bcsaller> I didn't get the final +1, my branch is ready to merge
[17:05] <bcsaller> should be in your email and I pinged kapil about it as well
[17:05] <niemeyer> bcsaller: It already has my +1 I think
[17:05] <niemeyer> bcsaller: Or is it another branch?
[17:05] <bcsaller> you said it needed one more sign off at the end and I made changes for the review and no one ok'd them
[17:06] <niemeyer> bcsaller: Yeah, from Kapil specifically
[17:06] <bcsaller> yeah
[17:08] <niemeyer> bcsaller: Did you talk to him about this already?
[17:08] <bcsaller> niemeyer: I pinged him about it this morning but haven't seen him
[17:08] <robbiew> he's at a conference today
[17:09] <bcsaller> all the tests are passing, I can go and merge it if your ok with that niemeyer
[17:09] <niemeyer> bcsaller: Yeah, I think that's the best thing to do
[17:10] <niemeyer> bcsaller: Let's invite him for a post-review
[17:11] <jimbaker> niemeyer, the env-origin branch is ready for review
[17:12] <niemeyer> jimbaker: Cool, I'll check it out
[17:12] <jimbaker> niemeyer, thanks
[17:27] <_mup_> Bug #862595 was filed: Provisioning agent and destroy-environment show NoneType not iterable on machine shutdown with Openstack <openstack> <juju:New> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/862595 >
[17:27] <HarryPanda> is there anything in place to test charms with Jenkins etc.
[17:30] <SpamapS> HarryPanda: jamespage has some preliminary work on that.
[17:32] <jimbaker> SpamapS, looks like more txaws issues there with 862595
[17:33] <SpamapS> jimbaker: yeah.. I think that may actually be causing big problems on the provisioning agent.. it doesn't seem to want to provision new instances after that
[17:34] <bcsaller> niemeyer: http://wtf.labix.org/ is happy again
[17:34] <bcsaller> niemeyer: well, the non-ftests part anyway
[17:34] <jimbaker> SpamapS, the provisioning agent certainly doesn't expect errors. i'm not certain what it should be, but just barfing is not one of them
[17:35] <jimbaker> bcsaller, those are because of the respository changes, so that's independent
[17:36] <jimbaker> SpamapS, ok, that may be overstating it, but it is vulnerable
[17:37] <SpamapS> jimbaker: seems like whats happening here is that while the provider has shutdown the machine and changed ZK to remove it, the error has somehow caused the provider to not thing the machine is gone
[17:37] <SpamapS> jimbaker: leading to bug 861928
[17:37] <_mup_> Bug #861928: provisioning agent gets confused when machines are terminated <juju:New> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/861928 >
[17:38] <jimbaker> SpamapS, the periodic rescan is supposed to sync it with reality for cases like this, as i understand it, but the changes in aws api impl is presumably making it confused
[17:39] <SpamapS> jimbaker: probably because the group is still there
[17:42] <jimbaker> SpamapS, you mean the security group per machine?
[17:43] <SpamapS> jimbaker: hrm, no its not there
[17:44] <SpamapS> seems like there's some order of ops that gets confused by that NoneType iterable error.
[17:46] <jimbaker> SpamapS, as a general rule, we expect specific errors from txaws - it looks like it's not catching this TypeError, so it bubbles all the way up to the reactor loop
[17:51] <_mup_> juju/env-origin r378 committed by<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[17:51] <_mup_> Merged trunk
[17:57] <jimbaker> just had an opportunity to see the incompatible juju protocol version in action
[17:58] <SpamapS> jimbaker: hah :)
[18:00] <jimbaker> it was expected, fortunately... i think the error message could be more helpful on what to do in this case
[18:03] <SpamapS> jimbaker: so this does look like nova-api doesn't return the same expected XML after TerminateInstances
[18:04] <jimbaker> SpamapS, at the python meetup last night, i think someone mentioned that txaws is using an older version of the aws api. don't know about the truth of this
[18:05] <jimbaker> SpamapS, it may have nothing to do here, but supporting multiple apis is tough
[18:06] <jimbaker> as usual, we might want to look at boto
[18:06] <SpamapS> well in this case, comparing to boto .. boto just returns whatever list was responded with
[18:06] <SpamapS> txaws asserts that it has to be id=instancesSet
[18:21] <niemeyer> jimbaker: ping
[18:21] <jimbaker> niemeyer, hi
[18:21] <niemeyer> jimbaker: Hi
[18:22] <niemeyer> jimbaker: Please re-read points 3, 4 and 5
[18:22] <niemeyer> jimbaker: and compare to the implementation
[18:22] <jimbaker> niemeyer, ok
[18:23] <niemeyer> jimbaker: Is there anything missing there?
[18:25] <jimbaker> niemeyer, #3 - python-txzookeeper dependency is no longer relevant; #4, it uses the original implementation; #5, there is no attempt to test deb repositories, since they are no longer supported
[18:25] <niemeyer> jimbaker: Maybe I'm just missing.. where's that: 3) Otherwise, store the version in a variable, and keep parsing
[18:25] <niemeyer> jimbaker: 4) Find the version table, and find the installed version
[18:25] <niemeyer> ?
[18:26] <jimbaker> niemeyer, ok, i'm referring to the review points. you are referring to a list from irc
[18:26] <niemeyer> jimbaker: yeah
[18:26] <jimbaker> looking at that now
[18:28] <jimbaker> niemeyer, ok, i believe what you are saying here is that 6) refers to the installed version, which was stored earlier in 3), is that correct?
[18:29] <niemeyer> 1) Grab the installed version from the "Installed:" line
[18:30] <niemeyer> 2) If this is "(none)" return "branch"
[18:30] <niemeyer> 3) Otherwise, store the version in a variable, and keep parsing
[18:30] <niemeyer> 4) Find the version table, and find the installed version
[18:30] <niemeyer> jimbaker: Is there any ambiguity here?
[18:31] <jimbaker> niemeyer, correct, there is no ambiguity. the version table has more information than i have assumed, and this parse needs to take it in account
[18:31] <niemeyer> jimbaker: Thanks.
[18:35] <niemeyer> biab
[18:49] <SpamapS> wow.. nova-api's response to TerminateInstances is *completely* different from ec2
[18:56] <jimbaker> i'm feeling sick right now, i will be back later
[18:57] <SpamapS> http://pastebin.com/jFDQLrcQ
[18:57] <SpamapS> thats ec2's response
[18:57] <SpamapS> http://pastebin.com/ZMXwA4MY
[18:57] <SpamapS> And that is openstack
[19:31] <_mup_> juju/ftests r5 committed by<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[19:31] <_mup_> Removing unused imports.
[19:40] <SpamapS> note that bug 862595 is actually pretty serious.. really confuses the provisioning agent.
[19:40] <_mup_> Bug #862595: terminate_instances raises NoneType not iterable on machine shutdown with Openstack <openstack> <juju:Invalid> <txAWS:New> <txaws (Ubuntu):Triaged> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/862595 >
[19:41] <SpamapS> hazmat: when you're around, if you can ack the merge proposal against txaws .. I will patch it into the Ubuntu txaws
[19:50] <robbiew> bcsaller: free for a catch up call?
[19:54] <bcsaller> robbiew: I was just sitting down to lunch, can we push it a little bit?
[19:55] <robbiew> bcsaller: absolutely not!
[19:55] <robbiew> lol
[19:55] <robbiew> sure
[19:55] <bcsaller> thanks
[20:15] <bcsaller> robbiew: free when you are
[20:15] <_mup_> juju/ftests r6 committed by<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[20:15] <_mup_> Reverse the order of revisions and link them to Launchpad.
[20:23] <robbiew> bcsaller: cool...need 5min
[20:27] <robbiew> bcsaller: g+, phone, skype, mumble...pick yer poison :)
[20:28] <bcsaller> robbiew: sent g+ invite
[20:28] <robbiew> bcsaller: cool...one sec
[21:05] <_mup_> juju/ftests r7 committed by<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[21:05] <_mup_> Move environments.yaml creation into the ec2 suite, and
[21:05] <_mup_> make it use trunk rather than packages, so that the code
[21:05] <_mup_> has better chances of being in sync. Hopefully this fix
[21:05] <_mup_> the current breakage.
[21:12] <_mup_> juju/trunk r370 committed by<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[21:12] <_mup_> Rename readme.txt to README since we already have one of those. [trivial]
[21:12] <_mup_> But really, this is just bumping the revno for an ftest cycle. :-)
[21:16]  * hazmat catches up
[21:19] <niemeyer> Hah.. missed the URLs
[21:19] <niemeyer> hazmat: YO!
[21:20] <hazmat> niemeyer, greetings hows your conference?
[21:20] <hazmat> SpamapS, which merge proposal?
[21:20] <niemeyer> hazmat: Awesome! Delighted to see everyone here, even though has been a bit tough to be in and out, and still need to do my talk for tomorrow
[21:21] <niemeyer> hazmat: Fixing the ftests now..
[21:21] <niemeyer> hazmat: Hey, I had made a comment on bcsaller's review to invite you for one last look on lxc-omega before the merge since there were a few things since your last review
[21:21] <niemeyer> hazmat: But tests were broken in trunk, so we decided to move on with it
[21:22] <hazmat> niemeyer, yeah.. saw that.. i'll have a last look at the commit
[21:22] <niemeyer> hazmat: If possible, would you mind to do a post-review on this once you have some spare time?
[21:22] <niemeyer> hazmat: Cheers!
[21:24] <_mup_> juju/ftests r8 committed by<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[21:24] <_mup_> Forgot to update the ec2 tests to use local: urls (!).
[21:29] <hazmat> SpamapS, +1 on the terminate fix
[21:35] <SpamapS> hazmat: cool thanks!
[21:36] <jamespage> SpamapS: zookeeper -> upstart transition - next release right?
[21:36] <jamespage> or do we want that now?
[21:36] <SpamapS> jamespage: yes next release :)
[21:36] <jamespage> coolio
[21:36] <jamespage> should be pretty easy
[21:36] <SpamapS> jamespage: agreed
[21:36] <SpamapS> jamespage: we should be able to do it in Debian so we don't have a permanent delta
[21:37] <jamespage> we should be able to - I need todo the tomcat's as well in the same way
[21:37] <hazmat> 3.4 release of zk is going to require some packaging love for next release, the build system is a bit different afaicr
[21:38]  * jamespage sighs
[21:38] <jamespage> better take a look a trunk sooner rather than later then...
[21:39] <SpamapS> indeed, would be good to get that going into experimental soon
[21:42] <jamespage> yeah - that had crossed my mind
[21:43] <jamespage> meh - looks much the same to me
[21:43] <jamespage> I'll have a go at an new upstream release for experimental some time in the next few weeks
[21:43] <SpamapS> well anyway, time to run off to the urgent care to take care of this pinkeye.. grubby filthy things those kids are.
[21:43] <jamespage> hehe
[21:59] <hazmat> bcsaller, i see one bug in the omega merge to trunk
[22:00] <bcsaller> hazmat: whats that
[22:00] <hazmat> bcsaller, on the merge proposal
[22:00] <hazmat> bcsaller, its referencing self.master_template.. which is undefined, so it won't work if you don't already have one
[22:01] <hazmat> here's my diff to fix that as well as other style issues, http://paste.ubuntu.com/699361/
[22:01] <bcsaller> I'll fix it, thanks, well spotted
[22:05] <bcsaller> hazmat: I'll go ahead and merge that as a trivial then I guess
[22:17] <_mup_> juju/ftests r9 committed by<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[22:17] <_mup_> Show what the wordpress title seems to be.
[23:00] <_mup_> juju/ftests r10 committed by<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[23:00] <_mup_> Fixed title extraction.
[23:08] <hazmat> niemeyer, jimbaker, bcsaller can i get a +1 on this trivial http://paste.ubuntu.com/699361/
[23:08] <hazmat> actuall
[23:08] <hazmat> nevermind
[23:08] <hazmat> i'll incorporate into my next branch
[23:09] <bcsaller> hazmat: I think that was already merged as a trivial
[23:10] <hazmat> bcsaller, ah.. cool.. wasn't sure since there wasn't any mup noise
[23:10] <hazmat> it would be nice if mup could directly monitor the repo
[23:20] <hazmat> niemeyer, thanks for the email btw
[23:20] <niemeyer> hazmat: No problem
[23:21] <hazmat> niemeyer, was talking to some of the heroku guys on how they do multi-tenant with lxc last night, they basically dictate to the process which port to listen on
[23:22] <hazmat> niemeyer, this conference is pretty awesome btw for ops stuff,  we should have some more people here
[23:22] <hazmat> hopefully they'll get videos up in timely fashion this year
[23:23] <niemeyer> hazmat: Interesting
[23:42] <_mup_> juju/env-origin r379 committed by<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[23:42] <_mup_> Properly parse version table of apt-cache policy
[23:47] <_mup_> juju/env-origin r380 committed by<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[23:47] <_mup_> Merged trunk


[02:56] <jgould> I could strangle someone at fronttier right now
[21:23] <jgould> Hmm...  is the trackpad and suspend still quirky on non apple hardware?
[21:24] <Unit193> I have no issues with suspend, but others might.
[21:25] <jgould> The system suspends, but wakes up almost instantly...
[21:27] <Unit193> Hah, well that's useless.  And the trackpad?
[21:32] <jgould> trackpad is overly sensitive, will click (but then upon typing, disable) and then will not be able to unclick with external mouse, have to wait on disable while typing to time out, then can unclick and stop highlighting things...
[21:36] <Unit193> Wow...  Yeah as I've always thought, Linux "works" on Apple, but not really.
[21:50] <jgould> Any off the shelf brands better than others at supporting linux?
[21:51] <jgould> Laptops...
[21:51] <jgould> I forgot a word in there


[02:59] <nigelb> morning
[03:00] <nigelb> AlanBell: only 4 secs for me too
[05:30] <duanedesign> morning nigelb
[09:36]  * duanedesign is really procrastinating this morning
[09:36] <popey> I'm leaving procrastinating for next week
[09:38] <czajkowski> I need food
[09:38] <czajkowski> hmm
[15:51] <evilduanedesign> czajkowski: I thought I had run into you in the gtk# chat room on gimp.net. There was a user named cszikszoy. At first glance I was like 'oh', then i was like 'no'.
[16:05] <vish> jcastro: haha!! Belly in Olivia..  the voice almost sounds like the kid saying "REDRUM"
[16:07] <vish> her* voice
[16:34] <jcastro> vish: are you talking about Fringe?
[16:34] <vish> jcastro: yea
[16:34] <jcastro> hah, haven't seen last night's yet
[16:34] <jcastro> thanks!
[16:38] <evilduanedesign> hello vish
[16:38] <vish> evilduanedesign: hey..
[16:38] <evilduanedesign> todday i am evil and you are not >:)
[16:39] <vish> we take turns ;)
[16:39] <evilduanedesign> my vps was acting up so I opted for irccloud today
[16:40] <jcastro> my irrcloud was acting up the other day
[16:41] <vish> evilduanedesign: i forgot to mention, you'd have to subscribe to the BugSquad Mentoring team's mailing list
[16:41] <vish> lp is just silly, it should just subscribe people to teams they join.. :s
[16:52] <evilduanedesign> vish: i think you can set it to automatically join mailing lists of teams you join
[16:53] <vish> evilduanedesign: yea, its a per user pref, and it seems set to OFF by default..
[16:53] <evilduanedesign> I went ahead and read a bit of the archives
[16:53] <vish> cool! :)
[16:53] <evilduanedesign> yes i think it is
[16:53] <evilduanedesign> and i have been trying to 'be aware' of chat in #ubuntu-bugs more
[16:54] <evilduanedesign> vish: try and answer questions and catch any informative conversation :)
[16:55] <vish> yea, -bugs is an interesting place.. :)


[06:09] <jibel> good morning everyone
[06:15] <duflu> Morning jibel
[06:16] <duflu> Says everyone :)
[06:18] <oSoMoN> good morning duflu, jibel, desktoppers, world
[06:19] <duflu> Morning oSoMoN
[06:24] <jibel> Hey oSoMoN and duflu
[06:25] <jibel> oSoMoN, you're early today.
[06:25] <jibel> how are you all?
[06:36] <duflu> jibel, going well despite bad sleep. You?
[06:42] <jibel> doing alright. didn't sleep a lot either but now I'm getting used to it
[06:42] <oSoMoN> same here, didn't sleep enough… but I'm coping (so far)
[06:42] <jibel> woke up at 4:30
[06:43] <oSoMoN> ouch, that's early
[06:43] <jibel> so I read books, learn spanish, prepare breakfast, keep me occupied to not do 12h work days
[08:02] <Wimpress> Morning o/
[08:05] <duflu> Morning Wimpress
[08:11] <seb128> goood morning desktopers
[08:17] <duflu> Hi seb128
[08:19] <seb128> hey duflu, how are you today?
[08:19] <duflu> seb128, going OK. Finding GJS sysprof integration is still extremely confusing. Many broken. I can't really tell. How are you?
[08:20] <duflu> -Many -Maybe
[08:20] <duflu> -- ++
[08:20] <seb128> I'm good, a bit tired though, I could have slept longer today!
[09:02] <Laney> hullo
[09:03] <seb128> hey Laney, how are you today?
[09:05] <duflu> Hi Laney
[09:05] <seb128> oSoMoN, you need a s/python/python2/ in firefox it looks like, see https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2020-January/040869.html
[09:13] <Laney> hey seb128 oSoMoN
[09:13] <Laney> & duflu!
[09:14] <Laney> seb128: tired this morning for some reason
[09:14]  * Laney drinks tea
[09:15] <oSoMoN> good morning Wimpress, seb128, Laney
[09:15] <seb128> hey oSoMoN
[09:15] <oSoMoN> seb128, yeah, I'm on the case already
[09:16] <seb128> great
[09:16] <oSoMoN> I also added an item to my to-do list to test building firefox with python3
[09:30] <ricotz> seems there is more to it than just switching deps :)
[09:30] <ricotz> is python3-defaults going to provide the generic packages and links?
[09:35] <seb128> ricotz, well, if you want to build with python3
[09:36] <seb128> but python unversioned is missing, if you want to keep building with python2 just changing the package name should be enough
[09:37] <seb128> (brb, changing location)
[09:57] <oSoMoN> package name, shebangs and explicit invokations of "python" in scripts
[09:58] <ricotz> seb128, right, /usr/bin/python is gone currently, so shabang changes are mandatory at this point?
[09:58] <seb128> ricotz, right
[09:58] <oSoMoN> yes, that's what do_ko wrote
[09:58] <seb128> sorry you are right
[12:31] <seb128> popey, hey. https://snapcraft.io/store features gnome-twitch but that app stopped working because twitch cut the API they were using, so it just segfaults when trying to play something now (https://github.com/vinszent/gnome-twitch/issues/391) so it should probably be unfeatured? (and sorry to ping you direclty, unsure where to sent such feedback)
[12:35] <seb128> popey, oh an now a store bug/question, I tried to set a banner for a snap, the image I uploaded is incorrect ratio which I get as a feedback (so far so good), 'screenshot-linux.png (1035 x 260 pixels) does not have the correct aspect ratio: it needs to be 3:1 (e.g., 780 x 260 pixels)'
[12:36] <popey> seb128: appreciate the feedback about gnome-twitch, will get that removed. thanks.
[12:36] <popey> seb128: yeah, I'd file a bug using the link at the bottom of the store page you're on, sorry about that
[12:36] <seb128> popey, so I edited my image to have the right ratio and accepts it but it gives me that error when I try to click 'save'
[12:37] <seb128> popey, 'Legacy banner (banner.png) image must be 1218x240 pixels in size.'
[12:37] <seb128> do you know what's this about?
[12:37] <seb128> the "show banner restrictions" section states 'Min resolution: 720 x 240 pixels'
[12:37] <seb128> why is it calling my banner legacy?
[12:38] <popey> whats the image file name?
[12:38] <popey> is it indeed banner.png?
[12:38] <seb128> banner.png
[12:38] <seb128> yes
[12:38] <popey> hehe, we detect that name
[12:38] <popey> call it anything else
[12:38] <seb128> confusing...
[12:38] <popey> yeah, file a bug ;)
[12:38] <seb128> against?
[12:39] <popey> down the bottom of the store page you're on, there's a github link
[12:40] <popey> if it's confusing / broken
[12:40] <seb128> thx
[12:46] <popey> seb128: https://github.com/Roadmaster/section_ops/pull/53  fyi
[12:46] <didrocks> oSoMoN: hey! This issue (bug #1858791) has come up during the Yaru sprint at least on one machine. It's happening with Ambiance and Yaru. I remember we talked about it already and it was fixed in some way. Does it ring a bell, something we can get to upstream, or a driver issue in your opinion? (no hurry though)
[12:46] <seb128> popey, https://github.com/canonical-web-and-design/snapcraft.io/issues/2423
[12:47] <seb128> popey, thx
[13:42] <Laney> clobrano: didrocks: mind if we upload yaru to focal/eoan for gnome-shell 3.34.2/3 compatibility? shouldn't interrupt your work
[13:46] <Wimpress> Laney: They are all at lunch right now, but I think you're right. Uploading will not impact what we're doing here.
[13:46] <Laney> okey, thanks
[14:05] <seb128> oSoMoN, do you know what happened there? http://autopkgtest.ubuntu.com/packages/f/firefox/focal/armhf (looks nicer but I'm curious what changed)
[14:10] <oSoMoN> seb128, I have no idea, but I like this sight :)
[14:11] <oSoMoN> could it be that all those tests were run when the load on the test infrastructure was very low?
[14:11] <oSoMoN> in my experience the test hangs on armhf were happening more often when under load
[14:11] <seb128> could be, holidays effect
[14:43] <Laney> Trevinho: uploaded!
[15:43] <mpt> jamesh, hi, I understand that you’re working on installation of themes as snaps. Will these theme packages have icons, like application snaps do?
[15:43] <hellsworth> good morning everyone!
[15:57] <oSoMoN> good morning hellsworth
[15:57] <oSoMoN> didrocks, that bug is a duplicate of bug #1828728, which is a known upstream bug with CSD
[16:08] <hellsworth> hi oSoMoN !
[16:15] <didrocks> oSoMoN: yeah, we got a little bit late that this was csd related
[20:28] <robert_ancell> kenvandine, https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gnome-software/merge_requests/399 is the very change I made in snap-store :)
[20:29] <kenvandine> robert_ancell: awesome :)