[16:13] <pleia2> jose: can you write a summary for "¡1 Año con Ubuntu Phone!" ?
[16:14] <pleia2> under "Ubuntu Phone News"
[16:27] <jose> pleia2: in English or Spanish?
[16:31] <pleia2> jose: write summary in english, then end with "this article is in spanish" :)
[16:31] <pleia2> it seems like a nice article to include, but I can't read it!
[16:31] <jose> hehe, let's see :)
[16:36] <jose> hmm, phone is messing up with me. I'll check in a bit.
[16:41]  * pleia2 another airplane


[00:11] <valorie> hmmm, that's a lotta red there
[00:45] <sgclark> git-clone-all barfs on me (publickey)
[02:12] <ahoneybun> valorie: the support page used to have oxygen icons but I've switched them to the ones from breeze
[08:30] <sitter> talk about an angry jenkins
[08:32] <sitter> sgclark, yofel: there may or may not be a bug in lintian KCI-E :: E: libkf5i18n5: postinst-must-call-ldconfig usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libKF5I18n.so.5.16.0
[08:32] <sitter> I don't think that error makes sense for a multiarch path
[09:58] <yofel> Version 1.18 of xorg-server has been released. New features include support for XRandR 1.5 and improvements to support for NVIDIA's Optimus hardware.
[09:58] <yofel> why do I feal uneasy when I read "improvements" ...
[10:10] <soee> yofel: will it land in 15.10 or onyl 16.04 ?
[10:11] <yofel> latter obviously. But I guess you can get it from edgers for wily. Haven't looked
[10:11]  * soee wonders if he should touch anything now when nvidia works ...
[10:15] <nluxton> soee: don't do it! ;)
[10:15] <yofel> I'll second that
[10:16] <ghostcube> never touch nvidia if it works
[10:25] <lordievader> Hehe
[10:27] <Mamarok> I was thinking about that issue the Brazilians have: there mightr not be a Kubuntu Brazil (yet) but there vertainly is a very thriving KDE Brazil community over there, so that might be a path to explore :)
[10:27] <Mamarok> sick_rimmit: they speak Portugese in Brazil, not Spanish
[11:43] <clivejo> Mamarok: looks like they have had a Kubuntu BR website for quite some time at http://www.kubuntu.com.br/ which was taken down recently
[11:54] <BluesKaj> 'Morning
[11:56] <clivejo> hi BluesKaj
[11:56] <BluesKaj> hey clivejo
[12:46] <clivejo> On http://kci.pangea.pub/ xenial FIX, where is the xenial_unstable coming from?
[12:46] <clivejo> sitter, Riddell, yofel ^^
[12:47] <sitter> question does not compute
[12:47] <yofel> kubuntu_unstable built for xenial
[12:47] <clivejo> what packaging is it using?
[12:47] <yofel> kubuntu_unstable ^^
[12:47] <clivejo> ah
[12:55] <clivejo> can I start trying to fix some of these?
[12:55] <yofel> go ahead
[12:55] <yofel> I think most are dependency issues
[13:06] <clivejo> I put changes in kubuntu_unstables and it auto merges with stable when succussful?
[13:10] <yofel> clivejo: -dust/21
[13:10] <yofel> huh
[13:10] <sgclark> morning
[13:10] <yofel> clivejo: https://community.kde.org/Kubuntu/CI#Branches
[13:10] <yofel> moin
[13:12] <BluesKaj> howdy
[13:18] <clivejo> yofel: sorry Im not explaining myself, a lot of these errors on KCI are lintian errors, caused by the git version numbers ie "E: systemsettings source: debian-revision-should-not-be-zero 4:5.4.3+git20151112.0613+16.04-0" I can add a override but where does that go?
[13:21]  * clivejo goes to find some food
[13:23] <shadeslayer> clivejo: that should be in the parsing rules
[13:23] <shadeslayer> to ignore those
[13:28] <yofel> right, that should not be the source of red
[13:33] <sgclark> I thought we were nuking vivid
[13:34] <sgclark> sitter: ^^
[13:37] <yofel> now you nuked the bot instead XD
[13:49] <sgclark> hmm postinst-must-call-ldconfig seems important, but I don't recall having to make posinst files in frameworks before. Anything else that can cause this yofel?
[13:50] <sgclark> or fi it for that matter
[13:50] <sgclark> fix
[13:50] <yofel> AFAIK this only happens when you embed a lib in an application package
[13:50] <yofel> which is why the debian team just added lintian overrides
[13:50] <yofel> maxyz: right? ^
[13:52] <yofel> for lib packages dh_makeshlibs seems to automatically add an ldconfig call to postinst
[13:53] <sgclark> that is what I read on google, so it must be true.
[13:54] <sgclark> this particular package is only libs
[13:54] <yofel> which one?
[13:54] <sgclark> kdsssn
[13:54] <sgclark> err kdssn
[13:54] <sgclark> kf5
[13:55] <soee> http://news.softpedia.com/news/kubuntu-now-has-two-release-managers-after-jonathan-riddell-s-departure-496070.shtml
[13:55] <yofel> oh, someone actually read my mail ^^
[13:55] <sgclark> libkf5dnssd5
[13:56] <sgclark> heh
[14:02] <yofel> ok, something did change. The auto-generated postinst script is missing
[14:04] <yofel>   0   * dh_makeshlibs: Use a noawait trigger to invoke ldconfig
[14:04] <yofel>   1     rather maintscripts.
[14:04] <yofel> what the hell is a noawait trigger
[14:06] <yofel> OTOH, using triggers is probably a good idea here
[14:12] <sgclark> unless it doesn't trigger? is that what I am understanding?
[14:12] <yofel> no, the trigger is there
[14:12] <yofel> I still need to look at lintian, but I believe our lintian version is outdated
[14:13] <yofel> we're 2 patch versions behind debian
[14:13] <yofel> yep, we have .36, fixed in .37
[14:13] <yofel> sgclark: so, ignore it for now
[14:14] <sgclark> ok
[14:14] <yofel> https://tracker.debian.org/news/712258 for reference
[14:14] <sgclark> thanks
[14:57] <sgclark> yofel: I am trying to ignore but CI will remain red until it is fixed. Anything I can do? if not I do need to attend to my kde hat anyway.
[14:58] <yofel> sgclark: I asked Laney if he plans to merge lintian or whether I can do it, so for now, lets wait
[14:58] <sgclark> ok np
[14:58] <yofel> although, I might just merge it in the evening and wait for his response after that ^^
[14:59] <yofel> and I need to revive my blog
[14:59] <yofel> and I need to blog about merging
[14:59] <yofel> did I mention that my todo list is too long?
[15:02] <sgclark> yofel: I hear yah. Mine is miles long.
[15:13] <yofel> so, Laney will take care of the proper merge
[15:13] <yofel> I'll upload a quick hack to the PPA then
[15:23] <shadeslayer> can  someone add me to the limux attendees list
[15:24] <yofel> let me try
[15:24] <shadeslayer> yofel: I land at 9 so I'll probably come to the venue late on Friday night
[15:24] <shadeslayer> at 10 ish
[15:26] <sgclark> I land at 8am so I will be wandering the streets of Munich for some hours lol
[15:26] <shadeslayer> too damn cold to be wandering the streets of Munich
[15:26] <sgclark> at least I can pack light as it is only a few days
[15:26] <shadeslayer> I did that last time
[15:26] <shadeslayer> it is seriously too damn cold
[15:26] <sgclark> oh? how cold?
[15:27] <sgclark> packing warm then, thanks for the warning!
[15:27] <yofel> probably around 0-15°C, hard to say now
[15:27] <sgclark> ahh I can survive that
[15:27] <shadeslayer> yofel: http://www.weather.com/weather/monthly/l/GMXX0087:1:GM
[15:27] <shadeslayer> sgclark: ^
[15:28] <shadeslayer> trying to figure out how to change silly units to proper units
[15:28] <yofel> same ^^
[15:28] <shadeslayer> ok 9-13 is the forecast
[15:28] <shadeslayer> yofel: the gear top right
[15:28] <sgclark> same weather as here. I can survive :)
[15:28] <yofel> aaah
[15:28] <yofel> shadeslayer: added
[15:29] <shadeslayer> yofel: it takes an hour to get from the Airport  to the city center
[15:29] <yofel> oops, right
[15:30] <yofel> fixed
[15:30] <shadeslayer> Drinks on Friday night?
[15:31] <shadeslayer> sitter: ^^
[15:31] <yofel> I would assume so
[15:31] <shadeslayer> when I get in
[15:31] <shadeslayer> :P
[15:31] <shadeslayer> don't leave without me
[15:31] <sgclark> sounds good to me
[15:35] <sgclark> oh thank goodness, my phone will work in Munich. At least I can wander with GPS.
[15:39] <yofel> well, the venue is pretty easy to find as long as you look for that lime-green goethe institute banner (streetview has the place). The hotel is pretty near around the corner
[15:40] <shadeslayer> the hotel is right around the corner indeed
[15:41] <shadeslayer> actually, that's the only hotel I'm going to be ever staying in whenever I go to Munich
[15:41] <shadeslayer> I booked something last time and it was on a totally creepy street
[15:41] <shadeslayer> *something different
[16:15] <maxyz> yofel: I've been away for most of the day. the overrides are usually added for the kdeinit hacks, that one is probably wrongly triggered by the outdated lintian.
[16:15] <yofel> right, we did figure that out in the end. Thanks


[04:39] <lamont> nealmcb: uh... when/where for the colorado loco party?
[07:52] <maeth> how can i install a VPN on my ubuntu machine?
[07:56] <ivoks> there are 3 vpns ubuntu supports - pptp, openvpn and vpnc
[07:57] <ivoks> which one do you want. do you need server or a client?
[07:59] <maeth> ivoks, need pptp, i already installed pptpd package
[07:59] <ivoks> great, then you just need to create a user
[08:01] <ivoks> in /etc/ppp/chap-secrets
[08:01] <ivoks> and edit /etc/pptpd.conf
[08:01] <maeth> ivoks, ok , thnx ... gonna check
[08:04] <_ruben> ivoks: and there's openswan, atleast its listed with apt-cache search
[08:04] <ivoks> _ruben: right, ipsec also
[08:11] <maeth> ivoks, can you help me with the configuring?
[08:11] <maeth> ivoks, how do i set more users?
[08:11] <ivoks> add them to chap-secrets
[08:12] <ivoks> [username]  pptpd [password]  *
[08:13] <maeth> ivoks, with the " [ ]  " ??
[08:14] <ivoks> without []
[08:14] <ivoks> but you should add ""
[08:14] <maeth> ""? where?
[08:14] <ivoks> example:
[08:14] <maeth> like this "username"?
[08:14] <ivoks> "ivoks" pptpd "secretpassword546;" *
[08:15] <maeth> ; that too?
[08:15] <maeth> sorry for the noob questioning
[08:15] <ivoks> in this example, ; is part of password
[08:15] <maeth> ivoks, k.. done :D
[08:15] <maeth> ivoks, thnx
[08:18] <maeth> ivoks, once created the user, i need to restart the service?
[08:21] <ivoks> no need to do that
[08:21] <maeth> ivoks, didnt worked :S
[08:22] <ivoks> check yor syslog
[08:58] <kraut> moin
[09:25] <_ruben> gug
[09:37] <soren> Good morning.
[09:40] <MenZa> Morning soren :)
[09:40] <soren> Hi, Menza :)
[12:14] <ivoks> why is /boot/grub/menu.lst world readable?
[12:15] <ivoks> :)
[12:15] <Nafallo> ivoks: it is not :-)
[12:16] <ivoks> well, i have unusal ubuntu here then :D
[12:16] <ivoks> it is, on all my ubuntus :)
[12:16] <Nafallo> no, you have the usual. I have changed some permissions where it makes sence on my server thou ;-)
[12:17] <ivoks> but we should do this by default :/
[12:17] <Nafallo> why?
[12:17] <ivoks> people would like to set passwords for grub
[12:17] <Nafallo> is there really a need before you add a password in there?
[12:17] <ivoks> this is not about me :D
[12:18] <ivoks> but people do want password there and don't have a clue that other users can read that file
[12:18] <ivoks> that would be great, yes
[12:19] <ivoks> and would require changes to passwd and useradd
[12:19] <Nafallo> oh?
[12:20] <ivoks> or update-grub should read if password is set, and chmod 640 it
[12:21] <Nafallo> that would be cleaner in my mind indeed...
[12:21] <Nafallo> grep ^password ;-)
[12:21] <ivoks> something like that... :)
[12:22] <ivoks> todo for 8.04 :)
[12:23] <Nafallo> add it to the Serverteams ideas wikipage :-)
[12:23] <ivoks> :D
[12:23] <Nafallo> and if we haven't got one, create one ;-)
[12:23] <ivoks> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/HardyIdeaPool
[12:23] <Nafallo> oooh
[12:23] <Nafallo> kewl!
[12:24] <ivoks> hm, would that be packaging or feature? :)
[12:24] <Nafallo> hehe. and hardy cause we will have apport rolled out for the whole of mains servers? ;-)
[12:24] <ajmitch> it's hashed with md5, isn't it?
[12:24] <Nafallo> both :-)
[12:24] <Nafallo> ajmitch: you can choose to do that indeed.
[12:25] <ivoks> ajmitch: it can be, but it's not by default
[12:25] <ajmitch> probably a good default to have
[12:25] <ivoks> and... anyway, shadow isn't world-readable
[12:25] <ajmitch> agreed
[12:25] <Nafallo> hmm
[12:25] <ivoks> imho, we should chmod it
[12:26] <Nafallo> we should probably not set a password in there thou...
[12:26] <Nafallo> sometimes you need remote hands...
[12:27] <ivoks> that's design problem, world-readable password is security problem
[12:27] <Nafallo> yea :-)
[12:27] <Nafallo> lets start with chmod if ^password
[12:27] <ivoks> if you need remote hands, don't put password there :D
[12:27] <Nafallo> exactly :-)
[12:28] <Nafallo> I could probably set it on all the London-based servers thou ;-)
[12:28] <Nafallo> which is all of them for now.
[12:28] <Nafallo> MY systems...
[12:29] <ivoks> grub: protect menu.lst from eyes of the world (chmod 640) if password is set
[12:29] <ivoks> there...
[12:30] <ivoks> an idean in the pool :)
[12:30] <Nafallo> could we task sabdfl to negotiate x86 and x86_64 support of Dells tools on the serverside btw? ;-)
[12:31] <Nafallo> hmm. what is it with all the hype around Zimbra?
[12:31] <ivoks> marketing
[12:33] <Nafallo> ehrm
[12:33] <Nafallo> this does hell of a lot more then roundcube :-P
[12:33] <ivoks> :D
[12:33] <Nafallo> and it has taskfreak built-in ;-)
[12:34] <Nafallo> and IM :-D
[12:34] <Nafallo> :-O even
[12:34] <Nafallo> what kind of IM is it?
[12:34] <Nafallo> XMPP?
[12:34] <ivoks> yeah
[12:34] <ivoks> (iirc)
[12:35] <ivoks> bad thing with zibra atm is that it installs it's own java and services
[12:36] <Nafallo> if it is I love it and might even ask my boss to spend some time at for hardy
[12:37] <ivoks> hm...
[12:37] <ivoks> i'm not sure it includes IM
[12:38] <Nafallo> the online demo had that.
[12:39] <Nafallo> but they have five editions of the server so.. ;-)
[12:40] <ivoks> yes, for MSN and AIM
[12:40] <Nafallo> oh :-/
[12:40] <ivoks> AOL, even
[12:40] <Nafallo> where did you find that? ;-)
[12:41] <ivoks> on online demo :)
[12:41] <ivoks> IM
[12:41] <ivoks> and then look at bottom right corner
[12:43] <Nafallo> to bad they haven't got YIM, since that seems to be what my company is based on right now.
[12:43] <Nafallo> or IRC! :-)
[12:44] <ivoks> anyway...
[12:44] <ivoks> http://www.zimbra.com/forums/developers/45-xmpp-jabber-integration.html
[12:47] <Nafallo> kinky!
[12:47] <Nafallo> oh! and Yahoo bought it.
[12:47] <ivoks> right
[12:47] <Nafallo> something tells me we will see YIM in there soonish ;-)
[12:48] <Tig|> Hi everyone,  I am still having procmail/postfix issues :)  I think I have tracked it down to postfix not invoking procmail,  I have mailbox_command = procmail -a "$EXTENSION" in my main.cf but I can't find any mention in the mail.log at all, any ideas?
[12:49] <Tig|> I have restarted postfix etc :)
[12:49] <ivoks> do you have procmail installed?
[12:49] <Tig|> yep :)  and runs fine from the command line
[12:50] <Tig|> I have run :   procmail DEFAULT=/dev/null VERBOSE=yes /dev/null </dev/null from the command line and it generated the expected output
[12:50] <ivoks> and nothing like:
[12:50] <ivoks> (delivered to command: procmail -a "$EXTENSION")
[12:50] <ivoks> in mail.log?
[12:51] <Tig|> nope, no mention of procmail at all
[12:51] <Tig|> which is slightly baffling
[12:51] <Tig|> Mail is delivered and going through fine
[12:51] <ivoks> ok, try like this:
[12:52] <Tig|> does it have to be in master.cf anywhere?
[12:53] <ivoks> mailbox_command = procmail -a "$EXTENSION" /etc/procmailrc
[12:53] <ivoks> no
[12:53] <Tig|> thanks will try that :)
[12:54] <ivoks> hm... hm...
[12:54] <ivoks> mailbox_command = procmail -a "$EXTENSION" -m /etc/procmailrc
[12:56] <Tig|> alas still nothing in the logs :(
[12:57] <ivoks> sec, phone
[12:57] <Tig|> no problem,  thanks for the help :)
[01:14] <ivoks> ok...
[01:14] <ivoks> postconf | grep mailbox_command
[01:14] <ivoks> what does this return?
[01:14] <ivoks> or postconf mailbox_command
[01:18] <Tig|> sorry back now :)
[01:19] <Tig|> mailbox_command = procmail -a "$EXTENSION"  -m /etc/procmailrc
[01:19] <Tig|> mailbox_command_maps =
[01:21] <ivoks> ok, that looks ok
[01:22] <ivoks> when you grep 'develiered to' your /var/log/mail.log, what does it return?
[01:23] <ivoks> Nafallo: it would be very hard to get ubuntu-server on dell servers
[01:23] <Nafallo> ivoks: oh?
[01:23] <Nafallo> ivoks: why is that?
[01:23] <ivoks> politics :D
[01:24] <ivoks> dell has relations with redhat and novell, and adding ubuntu there... hm... well, it's worth trying...
[01:24] <Tig|> or just buy them bare and install it yourself :)
[01:25] <ivoks> Tig|: did you grep /var/log/mail.log?
[01:25] <Tig|> yep
[01:25] <ivoks> and?
[01:25] <Tig|> just sanitising some of the data in it :)
[01:25] <Tig|> there are lots of entries
[01:25] <ivoks> ok :)
[01:25] <Nafallo> ivoks: I don't need it fully supported. but I think it would be worthwhile to bring up providing official debs for their tools.
[01:26] <ivoks> only one would be enough
[01:26] <ivoks> Nafallo: that would surly be a step in right direction
[01:26] <Tig|> Oct  8 14:06:49 telinf postfix/local[7920] : 173B4204608<EMAIL_ADDRESS>relay=local, delay=0.95, delays=0.18/0.01/0/0.77, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (delivered to command: /usr/bin/rt-mailgate-3.6 --queue '! New Requests !' --action correspond --url http://foo.com/)
[01:26] <ivoks> surly? is this a word? :)
[01:26] <Nafallo> ivoks: I think they are committed to do it if someone steps up to talk to them as well.
[01:26] <Nafallo> ivoks: surely ;-)
[01:26] <ivoks> ah, thanks
[01:27] <ivoks> Tig|: well, your mail is forwarded to that /usr/bin/rt-mailgate-3.6
[01:27] <Tig|> yep that is done in aliases
[01:27] <ivoks> Tig|: if that thing doesn't return mail to postfix, then postfix can't use procmail
[01:28] <Tig|> hmm
[01:28] <Tig|> wouldn't procmail do the filtering before it goes to the alias?
[01:28] <ivoks> no
[01:28] <Tig|> aha!
[01:29] <Tig|> right I will have to bounce it through a different address first :)
[01:29] <ivoks> even better
[01:29] <ivoks> create procmail rule to send a copy to that service
[01:31] <Tig|> ah that would do it,  I  can create a global procmail that will send it to the right aliases, it only has to last a couple of weeks :)
[01:31] <_ruben> Dell is already shipping Ubuntu desktop right? So why not server as well ;-)
[01:31] <Tig|> wonderful :)  thanks for that I don't think I am going mad now :)
[01:31] <Nafallo> _ruben: my thought as well.
[01:31] <ivoks> longer period of support
[01:32] <ivoks> but, we should try, i'm all for that
[01:32] <Nafallo> _ruben: and linux.dell.com seems to lean in the direction that they want to provide debs.
[01:32] <_ruben> im in the process of testing ubuntu server on a poweredge860 here at work
[01:32] <Tig|> Right I am going to get some lunch,  thanks for your help :)
[01:32] <ivoks> Tig|: enyoj
[01:32] <_ruben> lets check that url
[01:32] <ivoks> enjoy even
[01:32] <Nafallo> to bad their BMC hangs in 64-bit on dapper.
[01:32] <Tig|> _ruben: I have ubuntu-server running on 1850s and 1855s if that helps :)
[01:33] <Nafallo> I have it on 2850s
[01:33] <ivoks> i have it on 1600SC, 1500SC and 1435SC
[01:33] <Nafallo> and smaller machines... want the heck are they called again ;-)
[01:34] <Nafallo> SC1425
[01:34] <_ruben> we currently run novell's SLES9 on SC1425's and PE860's
[01:34] <ivoks> eh.. and 1650 too :D
[01:34] <_ruben> sc1425 is retired tho
[01:34] <Nafallo> I need to document what systems we have before it's to late...
[01:35] <_ruben> hehe
[01:35] <ivoks> in company i worked before, first thing to do was replace suse with (at first) debian and (later) ubuntu :)
[01:36] <ivoks> 20-30 machines
[01:37] <_ruben> here we started with slackware (4.0, before i even worked here) .. then debian potato, followed by woody .. then sarge took too long to become stable and we really needed a 2.6 kernel, so the decision was made to go with SLES9 .. now im investigating a possible move from SLES9 to Ubuntu
[01:41] <ivoks> maybe we should, for a start, edit http://linux.dell.com/wiki/index.php/Ubuntu-server
[01:42] <ivoks> and even create remastered CD with as few as possible questions
[01:48] <Nafallo> ivoks: add to ideas :-)
[01:48] <ivoks> Nafallo: :D
[01:50] <ivoks> bbl
[03:38] <Gargoyle> Hello
[03:38] <ivoks> hi
[03:40] <Gargoyle> Anyone use vmware?
[03:40] <soren> Yes.
[03:40] <ivoks> god, no :D
[03:41] <_ruben> heh
[03:41] <Gargoyle> soren: You us ubuntu host, and other guests?
[03:41] <_ruben> i am, but not on ubuntu, yet
[03:41] <Gargoyle> *use
[03:42] <Gargoyle> Just wondering how others find the stability/performance of it?
[03:43] <soren> Gargoyle: Both stability and performance is fine, IMO.
[03:43] <_ruben> stability: no problems .. performance: highly depends on the use of it
[03:45] <Gargoyle> Probably 4 guests. 2 win 2k3 server and 2 linux.
[03:47] <ivoks> at the same time?
[03:47] <_ruben> shouldnt be a problem, but also highly depends on the hardware you want to run it on, and how heavy the virtual servers' load will be
[03:49] <Gargoyle> What is the reason for apt not updating my linux-image-server package?
[03:50] <ivoks> apt-get upgrade never installs new packages
[03:50] <ivoks> apt-get dist-upgrade installs new packages if needed
[03:51] <Gargoyle> Well, the vmware installer wants to build a module so I installed the linux-headers-server package, and it's telling me the headers are for a diff version than my running kernel
[03:51] <ivoks> right
[03:51] <ivoks> run apt-get dist-upgrade
[03:52] <Gargoyle> ahh
[03:52] <Gargoyle> sweet
[03:53] <Gargoyle> Is dist-upgrade needed just for kernel updates?
[03:53] <soren> Gargoyle: Mostly, yes. The kernel packages change their name when the ABI changes.
[03:53] <ivoks> yes, and when using beta version of ubuntu :D
[03:54] <Gargoyle> ivoks: I was going to try the 7.10 beta, but it couldn't find the network cards in the server!
[03:55] <ivoks> ?!
[03:55] <ivoks> what kind of network cards are they?
[03:55] <Gargoyle> I'll tell you once its rebooted with 6.10
[03:55] <Gargoyle> I thin broadcom
[03:56] <ivoks> it didn't work during installation or after it?
[03:56] <Gargoyle> It worked during the install
[03:56] <Gargoyle> but not after the reboot
[03:58] <Gargoyle> Oh no, Intell pro/1000
[03:58] <Gargoyle> jeez, my typing is bad today.
[03:58] <ivoks> that's ok
[03:58] <ivoks> that's bug which is fixed
[03:59] <Gargoyle> ahh.
[03:59] <ivoks> they were working after install too, but were eth2 and eth3, not eth0 and eth1 :D
[04:00] <Gargoyle> Well, I noticed under vmware fusion on my mac, it was eth1. but I didn't try eth2 or 3
[04:00] <Gargoyle> :D
[04:02] <Gargoyle> If my host was using bonded nics, can vmware use the bond instead of each card?
[04:03] <ivoks> i think that should be possible, but i don't use vmware :)
[04:03] <_ruben> never tried that either
[04:04] <ivoks> well, kvm can do that :D
[04:04] <Gargoyle> I'll add it to my experiment list!
[04:04] <Gargoyle> :)
[04:04] <Gargoyle> ivoks: Can kvm do a remote console?
[04:04] <ivoks> instead of eth0 and eth1, it should use bond0
[04:04] <ivoks> remote console?
[04:05] <ivoks> with kvm it's possible to move running system from one computer to the other :D
[04:06] <Gargoyle> In vmware I can use the vmware console on my pc to manage/install the virtual machines on the server without needing to install a gui environment on the server.
[04:06] <Gargoyle> What is the ubuntu equiv of inetd / xinetd?
[04:07] <ivoks> Gargoyle: well, of course you can do that with kvm :) export DISPLAY etc
[04:07] <ivoks> Gargoyle: we don't use any by default, but both inetd and xinetd are available in repos
[04:08] <ivoks> or, yeah... you can use vnc with kvm
[04:09] <Gargoyle> ivoks: before the OS is installed?
[04:09] <ivoks> yes
[04:09] <Gargoyle> ohhh
[04:09] <Gargoyle> cool
[04:10] <Gargoyle> because vmware is being a bitch!
[04:16] <Roge> Gargoyle,  you could always try virtualbox
[04:26] <Gargoyle> vbox looks OK. Does it need a gui on the host?
[04:38] <Gargoyle> right, vmware has been binned for being an arse to install!
[05:11] <dendrobates> Server Team meeting wow at #ubuntu meeting.  All invited.
[05:12] <dendrobates> #ubuntu-meeting
[05:44] <nny> any way to just get the mpg123 package in 6.06 server without xmms?
[05:45] <dantalizing> apt-get install mpg123?
[05:45] <nny> nay
[05:46] <nny> may just get the source and compile, asterisk is picky about the version
[06:40] <lionel> nny: you just have to apt-get install mpg123. It's in multiverse (so check multiverse repository is activated)
[06:55] <nny> lionel: thanks, no need, the software i use needs the real 123 software, not 321 symlinked, i got it
[06:55] <lionel> nny: mpg123 in multiverse is the real mpg123 no symlink
[06:56] <lionel> well, have gone...
[08:54] <sommer> mathiaz: when testing ISOs when it says CD self-check is that done automatically?
[08:54] <sommer> or is there an options somewhere I missed
[08:54] <mathiaz> sommer: when you boot the cd
[08:54] <mathiaz> sommer: you have the option to test the iso.
[08:55] <sommer> ah okay... I missed it than.
[08:55] <sommer> /than/then
[08:56] <mathiaz> sommer: instead of 'install to hard disk' you can 'check the iso'
[08:56] <sommer> cool, thanks mathiaz
[09:25] <ScottK> mathiaz: What was the "Change MTA for Hardy" discussion about.  I appear to have missed that.
[09:26] <mathiaz> ScottK: it'S the dependency on a m-t-a
[09:26] <mathiaz> ScottK: so that we can set a default mta to postfix
[09:26] <ScottK> Ah.  That discussion.  OK.
[09:26] <ScottK> THanks.
[09:26] <mathiaz> ScottK: and debian can set it to exim if they want.
[09:27] <ScottK> Right.  I remember now.
[09:49] <ajmitch> good morning


[02:21] <crimsun> if a staffer might be kind enough to take a looksee at Gbotno's spamming<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[04:36] <fabrice_sp> Hi. Sorry to bug you again about that issue, but ubuntulog is not logging ubuntu-motu. Is someone working on it? I reported here the issue on the 8th. Just wanted to be sure that it was the correct way to report this issue
[04:41] <nhandler> fabrice_sp: Canonical runs the bot. We have no control over it. Check if an rt ticket has been filed at rt.ubuntu.com and file one if it hasn't
[04:43] <fabrice_sp> nhandler, AFAIK, I don't have a user to access rt.ubuntu.com (tried with my launchpad user)
[04:43] <nhandler> fabrice_sp: ubuntu/ubuntu
[04:44] <fabrice_sp> nhandler, oh: thank you!
[04:51]  * fabrice_sp just created case 9017 for the missing ubuntulog in ubuntu-motu
[10:05] <AlanBell> ping Pici
[13:26] <Philip5> Nafallo: ping!
[13:26] <Philip5> Nafallo: antar du jobbar men jag tänkte kolla med dig om du tänkte mer på op-frågan eller om du kan tänka dig låta oss andra ops rösta igenom någon/några eventuellt nya ops till kanalen för att få nytt blod av aktiva? om du bara ger klartecken så ordnar jag rättigheter och sånt så slipper du lägga energi på det
[13:27] <Philip5> Nafallo: något behöver nog göras i alla fall för just nu är det mer eller mindra bara 2 ops som är aktiva och håller kolla på kanalen men inte 24/7 med fördelningen
[13:28] <Philip5> Nafallo: för har du inte tid med frågan så får du deligera den till oss andra ops :)
[14:09] <Nafallo> Philip5: +1
[14:51] <Pici> AlanBell: pong
[14:57] <AlanBell> hi Pici
[14:57] <AlanBell> want to talk about factoids?
[14:57] <AlanBell> and bantrackertwo
[14:59] <Pici> Sure.
[15:02] <AlanBell> I hear some assistance could be used, not sure of the specifics but I am happy to help
[15:03] <Pici> AlanBell: Do you know anything about the current bantracker?
[15:03] <AlanBell> very little
[15:04] <AlanBell> and what I do know doesn't relate to factoids
[15:05] <Pici> Let me explain quickly what the bantracker does then.
[15:05] <AlanBell> ok
[15:08] <Pici> Bantracker is a supybot plugin that records channel events (kicks,bans,mutes,marks) into a sqlite database with about 100 lines of context.  There is also a web interface, but that is just some python cgi that interacts with the sqlite database and allows operators to search and comment on those events.
[15:09] <AlanBell> ok, and version two is django based with a mysql back end
[15:09] <Pici> Yes.
[15:11] <AlanBell> I have been playing with writing a python based GUI IRC client with a desktopcouchdb back end
[15:12] <AlanBell> so python IRC stuff is something I have some awareness of
[15:12] <tsimpson> the bantrackertwo won't need to know anything about IRC
[15:12] <AlanBell> so bantrackertwo is the front end bit, not the IRC supybot plugin then
[15:13] <Pici> Yes
[15:13] <tsimpson> the supybot plugin will (probably) use some sort of API or direct database access
[15:14] <AlanBell> ok, so what needs doing on it, and what has it got to do with the factoids process?
[15:14] <Pici> Right now its interfacing via django objects, but I'd like to eventually use some sort of api so that we aren't forced to run the supybot on the same host as the django project.
[15:15] <tsimpson> I was thinking JSON would be a good base for the api
[15:16]  * AlanBell likes JSON and couchdb
[15:18] <Pici> What needs work is the issue tracker, a json interface to everything (actually, I have something basic for commenting, but it probably could be improved)
[15:19] <Pici> I'd like to discuss tsimpson and the rest of the irc team about ideas for the factoid tracker, I have some changes that I think might make managing multi-channel factoids a lot easier.
[15:21] <tsimpson> I'd be interested in any ideas on that front
[15:21] <AlanBell> so having done a bzr branch of bantrackertwo how do I run it?
[15:22] <tsimpson> you need python-django and an apache install
[15:22] <Pici> You actually don't need apache.
[15:22] <tsimpson> that's right, it has a small web server built-in
[15:23] <Pici> But you'll need python-django.  I personally run from django trunk though.
[15:24] <AlanBell> ok, looks like it needs some openID stuff too
[15:24] <tsimpson> python-openid
[15:24] <tsimpson> and you'll need to run through the .py files changing the paths where appropriate
[15:25] <Pici> settings.py
[15:25] <tsimpson> if it's not in a directory called "ircTrack" the imports will need changing too
[15:25] <AlanBell> ./manage.py test seems to work now
[15:26]  * AlanBell considers changing name to bnrubin
[15:28] <Pici> :P
[15:34] <Pici> tsimpson: I put together a basic proof of concept factoid project that used tagging to define what channel a factoid could be used in.  So you could have !fail tagged #ubuntu-offtopic and #kubuntu-offtopic and you woudlnt have to worry about making aliases pointing every which way
[15:36] <Pici> Also I thought it would be useful to also have category tagging, so that we could have some way of bringing up say.. all the video related factoids, without using the regular search
[15:37] <tsimpson> ideally, I would like to have the ability to have a "master" database and a "local" database, so loco channels could have their own database but fall back to the master one
[15:40] <AlanBell> so would you want the local database to have delegated approval?
[15:40] <tsimpson> also, ideally, I would like the ability to translate the factoids
[15:40] <AlanBell> so a loco could approve their own factoids by the team leader or whatever
[15:40] <tsimpson> AlanBell: basically the "local" database would be searched first, if no match is found the master database would be searched
[15:41] <AlanBell> ok, but both databases would be on the same server presumably
[15:42] <tsimpson> most likely
[15:43] <AlanBell> I would think a single database would be better, that way it would be easier to collect together all versions of !fail for example
[15:43] <tsimpson> we'd also need to decide if we are going to require a database server (mysql/postgresql) or use sqlite3
[15:43] <AlanBell> oh, I thought that decision was already made as mysql
[15:43] <AlanBell> ah, you mean for the factoid database
[15:43] <Pici> django can handle most of the common standards.
[15:45]  * AlanBell thinks of couchdb with !foo as the document ID
[15:47] <AlanBell> then you could have all the translations and channel specific texts as attributes of the document
[15:48] <tsimpson> we will not use couchdb
[15:48] <tsimpson> not unless you want to write a django backend for it
[15:52] <AlanBell> ok, there are a couple of python couchdb libraries, but if that all gets abstracted away by django then any database would do
[17:18] <Philip5> Nafallo: betyder +1 "kör på det" eller bara att du är/var där? :)


[00:20] <Takyoji> otherwise any thoughts on the idea (of a web-based recreation of Ubuntu for learning)?
[00:21] <Takyoji> I might poke around doing a couple proof-of-concepts and then if successful, might need ideas of specific hands-on walkthroughs of learning how to use an operating system; most likely at an education standpoint as well (like some text, some interactivity, some quizzing, and finding which things they seem to have difficult with, etc)
[00:22] <Takyoji> and also having the guide of it spoken as well, for those that are more auditory learners
[00:24] <Muscovy> Creating some sort of overlay for pointing would be good.
[00:24] <Muscovy> Or highlights or something.
[00:25] <Takyoji> Either a pointer/highlighter or perhaps like a slowly-strobing glow effect that's added to an element if they have trouble with finding something
[13:22] <MichealH> :O


[00:35] <salgado> is there a way to move a PPA from a team to another or do we need to create a new PPA and copy all the packages over?
[00:38] <lifeless> new ppa + copy
[00:42] <salgado> hm, ok. thanks lifeless
[02:36] <rick_h> StevenK: what's up?
[02:38] <StevenK> rick_h: sidnei marked my MP as Needs Fixing :-(
[02:38] <StevenK> I didn't think combo_app() was actually tested.
[02:40] <rick_h> StevenK: yea, it is
[02:40] <rick_h> the TestApp() wraps combo_app
[02:40] <rick_h> and loads it as a wsgi appliaction that gets tested in the tests/test_combo.py
[02:41] <rick_h> StevenK: not sure what he wants test-wise, the current tests make sure combo_app functions, I suppose a test mounting _application in TestApp would work
[02:41] <rick_h> StevenK: and yea, I kind of agree with him that it'd probably be best to not _ it if we're going to import it
[02:42] <StevenK> Right
[02:42] <StevenK> I also think I didn't explain it the best in the MP, if he's asking "Why do you need this?"
[02:42] <rick_h> StevenK: yea, I didn't follow it either until you showed me how we were changing out code side
[02:43] <rick_h> though I think that the reason of "combo_app should be able to be wrapped as a wsgi app" is enough reason
[02:43] <StevenK> Right, so pasting our WSGI wrapper might help
[02:43] <rick_h> StevenK: yea, at least in the MP so there's a record I guess. Technically it's the more 'correct' way anyway.
[02:43] <StevenK> rick_h: I'll look at sorting it out after lunch.
[02:44] <rick_h> StevenK: ok, thanks
[02:44] <rick_h> I didn't see his response so sorry I didn't catch him during hte day with it
[02:44] <rick_h> just ping'd to let him know we needed it and ask him to take a peek
[04:39]  * StevenK tries to work out how to run convoy's test suite
[04:46] <wgrant> Grarrrr
[04:46]  * wgrant mauls the branch scanner
[04:46]  * wgrant chainsaws the branch scanner
[04:47] <StevenK> Haha
[04:47] <StevenK> Whyfor?
[04:48] <wgrant> It is slow.
[04:48] <wgrant> It holds locks.
[04:48] <wgrant> It randomly hangs.
[04:48] <wgrant> It's like Soyuz, except more unreliable and with a simpler task.
[04:48] <StevenK> wgrant: Can't bug 910492 be closed?
[04:48] <_mup_> Bug #910492: long urls break lazr restful object representation cache <oops> <Launchpad itself:Triaged> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/910492 >
[04:49] <wgrant> StevenK: Done.
[04:49] <wgrant>         # Bug heat increases by a quarter of the maximum bug heat
[04:49] <wgrant>         # divided by the number of days since the bug's creation date.
[04:49] <wgrant> wut
[04:49] <wgrant> lifeless: Bug heat confuses me
[04:51] <lifeless> I expect there are plentiful lies by now in the code
[04:51] <lifeless> due to age
[04:51] <wgrant> Ha ha
[04:53] <wgrant> Hm
[04:54] <spm> wgrant: while you're in a chainsawing slow services mindset, may I direct your energies towards.... checkwatches?
[04:54] <spm> or have I trolled too far?
[04:54] <wgrant> Hey, it hasn't hung in weeks.
[04:55] <spm> is it running?
[04:56] <wgrant> Unfortunately.
[04:56] <spm> :-)
[05:40] <StevenK> wgrant: O hai. So given https://code.launchpad.net/~launchpad/+recipe/launchpad-convoy . If I push changes to the packaging branch does that mean it will build 0.2.1-0~19-oneiric1 again?
[05:42] <wgrant> StevenK: Yes
[05:42] <wgrant> StevenK: The packaging revno is not included in that version template.
[05:42] <wgrant> Also, why do both thumper and StevenK ask me about recipes, when it was their project :(
[05:42] <StevenK> Haha
[05:42] <StevenK> wgrant: What would you recommend?
[05:43] <StevenK> wgrant: You know, the brain supresses bad memories ...
[05:47] <wgrant> StevenK: Either commit to trunk or include the packaging revno in the template (possibly temporarily)
[05:50] <StevenK> wgrant: I don't want the packaging in trunk
[05:52] <wgrant> StevenK: I never suggested that :)
[05:53] <StevenK> I could pull out lp:convoy, but then I/someone else has to merge lp:convoy into the packaging branch and push it
[05:53] <wgrant> What about one of the options I gave?
[05:55] <StevenK> I'm just not sure how/where to inject the packaging revno
[05:55] <StevenK> Without screwing up upgrades
[06:00] <wgrant> Let me find one of mine.
[06:01] <wgrant> StevenK: https://code.launchpad.net/~wgrant/+recipe/ivle-trunk
[06:04] <StevenK> Why +dr?
[06:04] <wgrant> debian revision
[06:04] <wgrant> It's arbitrary.
[06:04] <StevenK> Right
[06:05] <wgrant> StevenK: https://code.launchpad.net/~wgrant/launchpad/stop-this-aging-nonsense/+merge/91763
[06:06] <StevenK> It's over 9000!
[06:07] <StevenK> (IE, r=me)
[06:07] <wgrant> Thanks.
[06:09] <StevenK> I thought bug heat was already done in the DB
[06:10] <wgrant> The calculation is a PL/Python function, if that's what you mean.
[06:11] <StevenK> Right
[06:13] <nigelb> lol. stop this aging nonsense.
[06:13] <StevenK> Yes. wgrant will forever be 16.
[06:13] <nigelb> hahaha
[06:14] <nigelb> wgrant is the Australian vampire I suppose. :P
[06:14] <nigelb> StevenK: ^
[06:14] <StevenK> Haha
[06:18] <cody-somerville> He doesn't sparkle though.
[06:18] <StevenK> Spoken like a Twilight fan
[06:19] <wgrant> Heh
[07:27] <wgrant> stub: Oh, didn't know that was possible. Thanks.
[07:29] <stub> The planner gets to inline SQL functions into SQL queries. Not sure if it will help in this case.
[07:30] <wgrant> Unlikely, since the surrounding Python is terrible.
[07:30] <wgrant> But it's something.
[08:50] <adeuring> good  morning
[10:30] <bigjools> jml: who do we ping to get your updated testtools in the archive? Do you know who packages it?
[10:30] <jml> bigjools: it gets imported from Debian, lifeless is the maintainer there.
[10:31] <bigjools> jml: ok ta
[10:31] <bigjools> jml: there's an ubuntu-specific version in the archive at the moment
[10:31] <jml> oh really?
[10:31] <bigjools> jml: 0.9.11-1ubuntu1
[10:31]  * jml should really pay more attention to downstreams.
[10:31] <bigjools> I haven't looked at its local patch
[10:32] <bigjools> heh, debian has 0.9.11-1
[10:44] <jml> "  * Build using dh_python2."
[10:44] <jml> from doko
[10:44] <jml> I guess it's not much of a patch :)
[10:44] <jml> (incidentally, well done LP for making that easy to find out: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/python-testtools)
[10:46] <bigjools> \m/
[11:03] <adeuring> gmb, wgrant: could you review this MP: https://code.launchpad.net/~adeuring/launchpad/bug-829074-ui/+merge/91796?
[11:04] <gmb> adeuring: Sure thing.
[11:05] <adeuring> gmb: thanks!
[11:05] <gmb> adeuring: Just finishing another branch, but I'll get to it presently.
[11:48] <gmb> adeuring: Looks good. r=me.
[11:48] <adeuring> gmb: thanks!
[11:49] <gmb> Welcome :)
[11:52] <StevenK> adeuring: I think your change in r14748 does require QA.
[11:53] <adeuring> StevenK: yes and no -- the point is that the new featrues can't be used yet. The branch just reviewed by Graham will make that easier
[12:01] <rick_h> morning
[12:01] <adeuring> morning rick_h
[12:16] <wallyworld_> bigjools: wtf, just read that kubuntu is being killed :-(
[12:18] <jelmer> wallyworld_: it no longer has a dedicated canonical engineer working on it (as was the case when riddell was on rotation to Bazaar)
[12:18] <jelmer> wallyworld_: that's not quite the same as it being killed
[12:19] <wallyworld_> jelmer: the net effect will be the same i fear
[12:20] <jelmer> they seem to've done fine for 11.10 when jonathan was on rotation to bzr, and {x,edu,l}ubuntu seem to do fine with just infrastructure support too
[12:21] <jelmer> not saying it won't have a negative impact
[12:21] <stub> I think it would take much more than a single bullet to kill of kubuntu.
[12:21] <wallyworld_> yeah, maybe i'm being too pessimistic
[12:21] <wallyworld_> just a bit sad i guess
[12:21] <bigjools> wallyworld_: not killed
[12:22] <bigjools> wallyworld_: I think it's a good thing actually
[12:22] <wallyworld_> really?
[12:23] <bigjools> yeah, it means any criticism about it will need to be levelled at the community, not canonical
[12:23] <wallyworld_> true
[12:23] <bigjools> and the community will not be encumbered by anything
[12:26] <rick_h> StevenK: can the combo-url land? Or we waiting on RT?
[12:28] <StevenK> rick_h: We are waiting for the convoy MP.
[12:28] <rick_h> StevenK: ok cool.
[12:30] <StevenK> rick_h: If that lands, then I can update the convoy package, and land combo-url
[13:36] <rick_h> adeuring: do you know anyone that knows translations well?
[13:36] <adeuring> rick_h: jtv for example
[13:36] <rick_h> adeuring: I'm trying to find some way to mass download .pot files without any success in wiki/google
[13:36] <rick_h> adeuring: ok, thanks
[13:57] <rick_h> jtv: ping, got a sec for a translation question? someone is asking about mass downloading all ubuntu .pot files for spanish languages?
[13:58] <rick_h> jtv: I don't see any way to mass download from the wiki/webui. I see a lp-translations tools package that seems to do mass uploads though, but code doesn't seem to download?
[13:58] <rick_h> adeuring: so did maint. RT, questions, translations, and new projects
[13:59] <adeuring> rick_h: cool -- i sucked again :(
[13:59] <rick_h> bah, missed jtv
[14:01] <deryck> Morning, all.
[14:05] <rick_h> morning deryck
[14:10] <deryck> adeuring, rick_h -- I'd like to do a G+ hangout for our standup today.
[14:11] <rick_h> deryck: sounds like a plan
[14:16] <adeuring> deryck: gahh -- i still have no g+ account :(
[14:16] <deryck> adeuring, see my PM to you. :)
[14:33] <deryck> abentley, we're G+ hanging out today for standup.
[15:17] <abentley> jcsackett, sinzui: A branch's unique name is a well-established term.  Unique names do not include the lp: prefix.
[15:17] <sinzui> my apologies
[15:18] <abentley> sinzui: np, just let's keep the definition consistent.
[15:26] <jelmer> what's happening with bug heat?
[15:26] <jelmer> I thought it was going to be removed - is it going to stay around in some form (given it has just changed)?
[15:30] <jcsackett> abentley, sinzui: so do we need to roll that back?
[15:31] <abentley> jcsackett: No, but you should change the function name, or else change where you attach the prefix.
[15:31] <jcsackett> abentley: ok, i'll land a follow up to correct the name.
[15:31] <abentley> jcsackett: thanks.
[15:34] <abentley> jcsackett: You should also change the HTML so it's not called #branch-unique-name.
[15:34]  * jcsackett nods
[15:34] <jcsackett> seems odd unique name was ever used, as it's all about presenting the location, which incorporates the unique name but isn't the same thing at all.
[15:35] <abentley> jcsackett: I don't know where this is, but it's possible the authors thought it was about presenting the name, not the location.
[15:36] <jcsackett> abentley: fair. could be it was misappropriated for presenting the location later.
[15:38] <abentley> jcsackett: Nope, looks like it was always presenting the name and calling it the location.
[15:38] <jcsackett> right on. well, i'll be making it consistent shortly.
[15:39] <abentley> jcsackett: I guess you could stick the lp: in the template.
[15:39] <jcsackett> possibly, but it would have to exist outside of the node, since that gets set by the js.
[15:39] <jcsackett> seems a might bit hackish.
[15:42] <abentley> jcsackett: Yes, it's treating HTML as a template language.
[16:18] <abentley> jelmer: https://blog.launchpad.net/general/bugheatchange
[16:20] <jelmer> abentley: ah, thanks - missed that for some reason
[16:26] <sinzui> danhg, talky talky time?
[16:47] <danhg> Hey sinzui, I'm in the middle of MaaS tests, I should be free by 18:00 GMT?
[16:47] <sinzui> okay
[17:29] <deryck> adeuring, hey, any luck on those interrupt duties? (a friendly ping from one slacker to another. ;)
[17:30] <adeuring> deryck: sgh... goit distracted again by working on a branch...
[17:52] <lifeless> deryck: hey
[17:59] <deryck> hi lifeless
[18:00] <lifeless> how is your schedule to-day?
[18:01] <deryck> lifeless, unfortunately, my wife ninja-scheduled me for the dentist.  and I need to leave a little early today.
[18:01] <deryck> she knows I'm a baby and need her to hold my hand.
[18:04] <lifeless> deryck: I take it that that is in a few minutes time? If it was say 40-50 minutes away we could do a quick call...
[18:05] <deryck> lifeless, no, it's actually couple hours away still.  I'm just heads down trying to finish these hanging actions from TL call.
[18:05] <deryck> lifeless, I'd really love to chat, but I don't want to be yet another day working on these "investigations" either. :)
[18:06] <deryck> lifeless, how about tomorrow post TL call?
[18:06] <lifeless> IIRC I was going to give you a hand with one of them
[18:06] <deryck> lifeless, you gave me enough of I hand, I think.  I filed a bug this morning.
[18:06] <lifeless> uhm, I have no idea, let me check (the new time has thrown out my memosied schedule)
[18:06] <deryck> let me see bug number....
[18:06] <deryck> lifeless, bug 928327
[18:06] <_mup_> Bug #928327: codebrowse hangs due to exception/oops handling <loggerhead:Triaged> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/928327 >
[18:07] <deryck> lifeless, my guess/diagnose could easily be wrong ^^ so I appreciate you looking at the bug.
[18:07] <lifeless> gary_poster: we have a parallel testing biweekly thing conflicting with the TL new time
[18:07] <lifeless> deryck: I have a slot *before* the tl meeting; after has my 1:1 with statik
[18:08] <deryck> lifeless, that works for me better actually.  forgot about the TL call time shift.
[18:09] <lifeless> deryck: why do you think oops is implicated ?
[18:10] <deryck> the hang seems to be in oops_middleware
[18:10] <lifeless> I don't follow - oops_middleware is in the call stack yes, but its a WSGI middleware, so it will always be so.
[18:11] <lifeless> thread 11 in https://pastebin.canonical.com/59603/ is in the middle of a global GC run
[18:12] <lifeless> but the other one has no GC in it, so either different cases, or not GC.
[18:12] <deryck> lifeless, so I saw the threads that seemed stuck in sock_sendall had stuff happening in httpexceptions and oops_middleware....
[18:12] <deryck> lifeless, so I just assumed something was hanging in dealing with an oops.
[18:13] <lifeless> so this, for instance:
[18:13] <lifeless> #6 0x00000000004fa67b in sock_sendall (s=0xa8e4ba0, args=<value optimized out>) from ../Modules/socketmodule.c
[18:13] <lifeless> #7 0x00000000004a7c5e in call_function () from ../Python/ceval.c
[18:13] <lifeless> /usr/lib/python2.6/socket.py (282): flush
[18:13] <lifeless> /usr/lib/python2.6/socket.py (292): write
[18:13] <lifeless> /srv/codebrowse.launchpad.net/production/launchpad2-rev-14640/eggs/Paste-1.7.2-py2.6.egg/paste/httpserver.py (123): wsgi_write_chunk
[18:13] <lifeless> /srv/codebrowse.launchpad.net/production/launchpad2-rev-14640/eggs/oops_wsgi-0.0.8-py2.6.egg/oops_wsgi/middleware.py (131): oops_write
[18:14] <lifeless> ?
[18:15] <lifeless> deryck: ^
[18:16] <deryck> lifeless, indeed.  that's what I meant.
[18:17] <lifeless> deryck: ok, so the way wsgi works means that every layer that offers facilities will /tend/ to have its own 'write' callable that is passed down.
[18:17] <gary_poster> lifeless, yeah I noticed
[18:17] <gary_poster> lifeless, I think TL wins ;-)
[18:17] <lifeless> oops_write is the callable passed from the oops middleware to the next deeper wsgi thing
[18:18] <lifeless> and wsgi_write_chunk is the callable that was returned by the paste http server
[18:18] <gary_poster> flacoste, lifeless, should we move parallel testing to 4PM Eastern, 21 UTC?
[18:18] <lifeless> http_exceptions etc
[18:18] <gary_poster> Wed still?
[18:18] <lifeless> gary_poster: is that 1 hour later or something?
[18:18] <deryck> lifeless, ah, ok.  Didn't realize that.
[18:18] <gary_poster> lifeless, right
[18:18] <lifeless> gary_poster: I have a call with statik then
[18:19] <gary_poster> lifeless, doesn't parallel testing take precedence? ;-)
[18:19] <gary_poster> lifeless, ok.  I'll look at schedules and make another proposal later
[18:19] <lifeless> gary_poster: I'm about a month out what with budapest, sickness, the QBR.
[18:19] <lifeless> gary_poster: if I hadn't missed that many 1:1's I'd say sure...
[18:19] <gary_poster> lifeless, sure. np
[18:19] <lifeless> but IME if you don't pin statik down with a nailgun .. :)
[18:19] <deryck> lifeless, so it seems those pastes are pretty useless then, if I understand that right.  except for knowing we're stuck in socket send.  or am I missing something?
[18:20] <lifeless> deryck: well, we don't know we're stuck in socket send
[18:20] <deryck> ok
[18:20] <lifeless> deryck: there are lots of threads, and some of them were writing content when the core was taken
[18:20] <lifeless> we don't know how long they had been there
[18:21] <lifeless> deryck: it *may* be that that is a smoking gun indicating e.g. network issues talking to haproxy or something
[18:21] <lifeless> or it may be totally irrelevant
[18:21] <deryck> ah, gotcha.
[18:21] <lifeless> deryck: lets go through in some detail tomorrow, for now I've gardened the bug to have just the definitive data
[18:21] <lifeless> gary_poster: +1
[18:22] <gary_poster> cool
[18:22] <deryck> lifeless, ok
[18:22] <lifeless> deryck: note that sock_sendall is a python module, so it may well get involved in or mangled by GIL issues, bad locking etc
[18:22] <lifeless> deryck: we may end up spelunking into C
[18:23] <lifeless> deryck: that said, we're missing line numbers
[18:23] <deryck> sounds fun :)
[18:23] <lifeless> deryck: what command did you use to get the traces ?
[18:23] <lifeless> deryck: and did you get missing symbol errors when you fired up gdb in the chroot ?
[18:23] <deryck> lifeless, used pygdb.  and no, I don't think so.  I can look again now.
[18:24] <lifeless> deryck: if you could, with regular gdb, uhm, 'thread apply all bt' and see if you get line numbers for the C frames
[18:24] <lifeless> if you don't, then we haven't got the debug environment right
[18:25] <deryck> lifeless, ah, yes, that is better.  line numbers indeed.
[18:25] <deryck> lifeless, could have sworn I did this and didn't get anything, and then tried pystack macros which hung.
[18:26] <deryck> lifeless, but may the regular bt attempt was when I was running locally still, and not in right env.
[18:27] <lifeless> deryck: not to worry - you have line numbers now ;) - could you refresh the paste links in the bug ?
[18:31] <abentley> gmb: are you still ocr?
[18:35] <deryck> lifeless, done.
[18:36] <lifeless> deryck: in bug 928327 ? I still see the old numbers.
[18:36] <_mup_> Bug #928327: codebrowse hangs in production <loggerhead:Triaged> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/928327 >
[18:37] <lifeless> deryck: ahha
[18:37] <lifeless> deryck: mmm, cluster lag
[18:39] <lifeless> deryck: the trick for the source is apt-get source python2.6 in the chroot
[18:40] <lifeless> deryck: so we can see that in https://pastebin.canonical.com/59625/
[18:41] <lifeless> thread 3 is in a libc call -  n = send(s->sock_fd, buf, len, flags);
[18:42] <lifeless> thread 7 is in the same libc call - send()
[18:42] <lifeless> the content being written looks like fairly inane annotated pages
[18:43] <lifeless> mysql-5.1-wl820 in thread3
[18:43] <lifeless> same branch in thread 7
[18:44] <lifeless> totally different thing in thread 8 - ~dcplusplus-team/dcplusplus/dcpp-plugins/revision/3/win32/PluginPage.h
[18:44] <lifeless> and it renders pretty snappily
[18:45] <lifeless> thread 10 is in the python zlib module
[18:45] <lifeless> I've found race conditions / bugs in it before
[18:45] <lifeless> so little alerts are going off for me
[18:45] <lifeless> note that it is in PyEval_RestoreThread
[18:46] <lifeless> see (http://docs.python.org/c-api/init.html) - in short, this is a common place for hangs
[18:46] <lifeless> it means it will be trying to get the GIL
[18:47] <lifeless> now, looking down its frames, that is in knit extraction
[18:48] <lifeless> so this should be safe as long as loggerhead isn't sharing the same objects across threads
[18:48] <lifeless> (it may be safe if the objects are being shared, but its less of an automatic assumption)
[18:49] <flacoste> gary_poster: how about at the old TL call position?
[18:49] <lifeless> threads 14,13,12 10 are all waiting on the GIL
[18:50] <lifeless> (determined by taking the GIL lock which the call to RestoreThread identifies and searching fo rit
[18:51] <deryck> lifeless, interesting.  I had to read back a few times, but I follow now. I feel +2 times smarter now. :)
[18:51] <lifeless> if you check the code for PyEval_RestoreThread you can see how I got the GIL lock just from the backtrace
[18:51] <lifeless> because the only lock it tries to get is the GIL
[18:52] <lifeless> thread 11 is doing a GC
[18:52] <lifeless> this means thread 11 holds the GIL
[18:52] <lifeless> the threads that are in sock_sendall have released the GIL
[18:52] <lifeless> (line 2723 in socketmodule.c is wrapped in Py_BEGIN_ALLOW_THREADS / Py_END_ALLOW_THREADS
[18:53] <lifeless> again - see http://docs.python.org/c-api/init.html - that means they have released the GIL
[18:53] <lifeless> so thats all the threads
[18:53] <lifeless> the other threads have noise in their stack
[18:53] <lifeless> I *suspect* they are killed threads by the paste thread killing code
[18:54] <lifeless> e.g. dead but not joined yet
[18:54] <lifeless> now, if the server has been attempted to shutdown
[18:54] <lifeless> but hasn't gone
[18:54] <lifeless> this would explain why there is no main thread visible
[18:55] <lifeless> (thread 1 shows
[18:55] <lifeless> Thread 1 (Thread 27332):
[18:55] <lifeless> #0  0x00002b34765e5ebc in ?? ()
[18:55] <lifeless> #1  0x0000000000000000 in ?? ()
[18:55] <lifeless> )
[18:55] <lifeless> deryck: ^ probably need to ask webops for the exact sequence of events leading up to the core to validate that theory
[18:55] <lifeless> if we can validate the theory then we can make an interesting observation
[18:56] <lifeless> which is that the listen event loop *has* shutdown properly; what is missing is cleanup of these other threads
[18:56] <lifeless> which cannot happen until garbage collection completes
[18:56] <deryck> lifeless, right
[18:56] <lifeless> well, not properly :P
[18:57] <lifeless> there are 2 threads in sock operations, 4 threads waiting for the gil (and apparently fine otherwise) and 1 in gc with nothing sensible higher up its stack
[18:58] <lifeless> thats a total of 7, but we'd expect 10 worker threads IIRC, plus mainloop
[18:58] <lifeless> so I strongly suspect a SIGINT or something already sent
[18:59] <lifeless> now, lets peek at the other core
[19:00] <lifeless> thread 4 is in sendall
[19:00] <lifeless> as is 9, same spot as they have all been
[19:00] <lifeless> thread 12 is taking a threading lock
[19:00] <lifeless> lets see
[19:00] <gary_poster> flacoste, sorry, just saw this.  The old team lead call time is fine with me, but I thought lifeless would prefer not to meet that early.  The later we make it, the less likely Europeans from my team can attend, and the easier it is for lifeless, AFAIK.
[19:01] <lifeless> gary_poster: I can attend at that time, but we'll have to boot deryck :)
[19:01] <lifeless> gary_poster: who claimed that spot like a flash, before
[19:01] <gary_poster> lifeless, heh
[19:01] <gary_poster> um
[19:02] <gary_poster> ok, I'll go look at the calendar...
[19:02] <lifeless> deryck: you'd be ok ~ this time on your thursday ?
[19:02] <deryck> I'm more Batman than Flash.  are we talking about me? :)
[19:02] <gary_poster> heh
[19:02] <deryck> lifeless, sure.
[19:02] <lifeless> ok, so deryck if you move your one +24 hours or so, and gary_poster you can move the paralleltests one an hour earlier.
[19:03] <deryck> lifeless, done!
[19:03] <gary_poster> thank you lifeless & deryck
[19:03] <lifeless> deryck: thread 12 looks like its the implementation for a threaded queue or something (haven't checked the .py source yet)
[19:04] <gary_poster> flacoste, done on calendar
[19:04] <lifeless> deryck: so its not going to be the gil that its waiting ok - in fact it has just released the gil (see threadmodule.c line 46)
[19:05] <lifeless> deryck: it looks like it is waiting for another request to service, judging from the call stack
[19:06] <lifeless> thread 13 is running some code *I think*
[19:06] <lifeless> the python integration blew up though (frame 0 is the fail)
[19:06] <lifeless> so we need to check the source to see if it holds the GIL
[19:07] <lifeless> and indeed, line 943 is in the middle of the big opcode jump case statement
[19:07] <lifeless> so, thread 13 holds the gil
[19:08] <lifeless> and is processing a knit repository, which the other inventory access in the other core was doing as well
[19:08] <lifeless>  /~starbuggers/sakila-server/mysql-5.1-wl820/view/head:/plugin/java_udf/java_context_test.cc is the file
[19:10] <abentley> deryck, rick_h: Interrupt dutes done in less than an hour.  Went down the whole list.
[19:10] <lifeless>  /~starbuggers/sakila-server/mysql-5.1-wl820/view/head:/plugin/java_udf/grokjni.pl was the inventory content the other core was doing
[19:10] <deryck> abentley, nice!  I'll look forward to mine in an hour then. :)
[19:11] <rick_h> abentley: rocking
[19:11] <rick_h> deryck: coat tail rider :P
[19:11] <lifeless> so, weak correlation there
[19:11] <deryck> rick_h, now you've finally figured me out.  oh no, my secret is exposed! :)
[19:12] <lifeless> thread 14 is another waiting-for-a-request
[19:12] <lifeless> as is 15,16,17
[19:12] <deryck> lifeless, ah, so dealing with the same objects in different threads.  did I understand that right?
[19:12] <lifeless> 18
[19:12] <lifeless> deryck: no, no indication of that yet; was noting that the same branch is being accessed from each core
[19:12] <lifeless> so there may be something to do with that content
[19:12] <deryck> lifeless, ok
[19:13] <lifeless> its also a 'knit' format branch which is bzr < 1.0's native format
[19:13] <lifeless> I think, or something in that general area
[19:13] <lifeless> 18 is waiting for a request
[19:13] <lifeless> 19 and 20 too
[19:14] <lifeless> 21 is waiting for the GIL
[19:14] <lifeless> and its the actual mainloop - note the serve_forever () and the PyMain at the top of the stack
[19:14] <lifeless> Py_Main I mean
[19:15] <lifeless> deryck: I think https://pastebin.canonical.com/59626/ has two different bt's in it, its a little confusing
[19:15] <lifeless> yeah, definitely does
[19:17] <lifeless> my info is ok, because I started at the bottom which was indeed the other set of bt's
[19:17] <lifeless> anyhow, what does this mean
[19:18] <lifeless> 12,14,15,16,17,18,19,20 are workers waiting for a request, 21 is the mainloop, 13 is doing work - thats 9 waiting, one mainloop and one worker working
[19:18] <lifeless> so this second core looks totally healthy and unstuck
[19:20] <lifeless> threads 9 and 4 are a little worrying - that send() behaviour
[19:20] <lifeless> but they don't hold the GIL
[19:21] <deryck> did I cut-n-paste wrong or something, to get different bt's?  I thought I just scp'ed gdb and pasted straight as is.
[19:21] <deryck> gdb.txt, I meant.
[19:21] <lifeless> there is nothing, assuming thread 13 would come alive again, stopping the healthy workers from serving more requests
[19:21] <lifeless> deryck: https://pastebin.canonical.com/59626/ and https://pastebin.canonical.com/59625/
[19:21] <lifeless> deryck: compare the first four lines
[19:21] <lifeless> deryck: and then the bottom four lines
[19:22] <lifeless> the bottom four lines of 59625 appear in the middleish of 59626
[19:23] <lifeless> deryck: so, the core with happy workers has only one real issue and thats a busy thread; its possible that that isn't releasing the GIL for some reason, but just regular bzrlib code *should* give other threads timeslices
[19:23] <lifeless> deryck: were both cores taken from hung loggerheads? How was hung determined ?
[19:24] <deryck> lifeless, that's a webops question.  not sure.  I can ask them.
[19:24] <lifeless> deryck: the mysql urls in question both render near-instantly for me
[19:25] <lifeless> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~starbuggers/sakila-server/mysql-5.1-wl820/view/head:/plugin/java_udf/grokjni.pl and http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~starbuggers/sakila-server/mysql-5.1-wl820/view/head:/plugin/java_udf/java_context_test.cc
[19:26] <lifeless> deryck: so, you may want to copy some of this to the bug; the bad news is I see now reason for the second process to appear hung, and the first process appears to have had its mainloop killed (e.g. via the OOM killer, manual SIGINT, whatever) and that *will* stop it serving.
[19:26] <lifeless> deryck: we now need to track down more data around the state of both of the cores, to see if we can infer anything else.
[19:27] <lifeless> deryck: I hope this has helped!
[19:27] <deryck> lifeless, I really don't mind copying this too the bug.  but it's a lot of text.  Would it be better for you to just summarize this briefly there?
[19:27] <deryck> just so I don't mis-represent.
[19:28] <lifeless> one core has damaged (I suspect killed but not joined()) threads including a missing mainloop. The missing mainloop would on its own make it appear dead to haproxy.
[19:29] <lifeless> It is in gc in another thread; one possible theory is it got too big memory wise and what we are looking at is damaged fallout from some attempt to recover it
[19:29] <lifeless> the other core appears entirely healthy except for the oddness that stuff is stuck in send(); but that is normal if the OS buffer is full, which will happen if the internets are not brilliantly happy (because buffering affects the entire chain)
[19:31] <lifeless> so we need to know for the first one, as much as we can about how it got to that state - were any sysadmin interventions applied first? (if so, the core doesn't represent the failure, it represents the failure + mangling)
[19:32] <lifeless> for the second, we need to know the symptoms that were being reported
[19:32] <lifeless> deryck: I suggest putting the transcript in an attachment for folk wanting to check the workings
[19:37] <deryck> lifeless, done
[19:41] <lifeless> cool
[19:41] <lifeless> and now, breakfast.
[20:06] <barry> sinzui: is there anything we can do to fix private mailing list archive access? :(
[20:07] <lifeless> barry: isd have a fix
[20:07] <lifeless> barry: it is 'in deployment'
[20:07] <barry> lifeless: excellent, thanks
[20:08] <sinzui> lifeless, since when.
[20:10] <sinzui> barry, lifeless bug 663923 give no indication there is a fix available
[20:10] <_mup_> Bug #663923: Cannot view list archive of private team <escalated> <mailing-lists> <ml-archive-sucks> <regression> <Apache OpenID:In Progress by mars> <Launchpad itself:In Progress by mars> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/663923 >
[20:11]  * barry subscribes
[20:11] <sinzui> I still believe grackle will be deployed and that bug will be fixed
[20:13] <barry> sinzui: what's grackle?
[20:13] <sinzui> barry, the archiver we are writing
[20:14] <barry> ah, right.  do you mean once grackle is deployed, you won't need the openid dance?
[20:14] <sinzui> correct
[20:15] <barry> cool
[20:15] <barry> that'll be nice
[20:15] <barry> heck,  i might even switch to grackle in mm3
[20:17] <sinzui> barry, possibly. I think Cassandra should be a choice rather than a requirement. We can written an almost complete memory store implementation that could be subclassed to implement a sql or simple mbox implementation
[20:17] <sinzui> s/We can written/We HAVE written/
[20:19] <barry> nice.  what's the status of it?  is code available?  is it functional yet?
[20:23] <abentley> barry: We started work on it at the Thunderdome, but I haven't been involved since.
[20:23] <barry> where are the branches? :)
[20:23] <abentley> barry: lp:grackle
[20:24]  * barry branches it for later
[20:25] <sinzui> barry, I need one more day to complete the client. We can them complete the server in a  few days
[20:26] <sinzui> barry, all the code is in trunk https://code.launchpad.net/grackle
[20:26] <lifeless> sinzui: since the ISD weekly report
[20:27] <barry> thanks.  i will definitely keep my eye on it
[20:27] <mars> sinzui, it is also in my team's goals for Q4
[20:28] <sinzui> mars, thanks
[20:28] <lifeless> sinzui: are you on isd-announce?
[20:28] <sinzui> no
[20:37] <lifeless> sinzui: I'm not sure how to get you on it; but it does have a aweekly summary of what ISD are up to that may be informative
[20:38] <sinzui> lifeless, I do not need to be more involved. This issue will be closed  soon
[20:47] <lifeless> sinzui: bug 928391
[20:47] <_mup_> Bug #928391: ProgrammingError creating new team <oops> <Launchpad itself:Triaged> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/928391 >
[20:47] <lifeless> sinzui: I think that that might be something your squad knows aboot
[20:48] <sinzui> lifeless, i learn about it an hour ago.
[20:48] <sinzui> My team will fix it
[20:53] <lifeless> kk
[21:02] <deryck> dentist time, yuck
[21:12] <abentley> rick_h: have  you closed bug #294656  ?
[21:12] <_mup_> Bug #294656: Every page requests two JavaScript libraries (remove MochiKit) <javascript> <lp-bugs> <lp-translations> <lp-web> <tech-debt> <Launchpad itself:Triaged> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/294656 >
[21:13] <rick_h> abentley: ah, sorry. Guess that never got linked to the branch. Yea, mochi is done and gone
[22:27] <wallyworld_> sinzui: https://pastebin.canonical.com/59655/
[22:31] <wgrant> fuuuu
[22:31] <wgrant> <unprintable Unauthorized object>
[22:31] <wgrant> From the isd team creation forbidden
[22:32] <jelmer> g'morning wallyworld_, wgrant
[22:33] <wallyworld_> jelmer: g'day
[22:37] <sinzui> wallyworld_, are you running tip? I see what looks like a fix: https://code.launchpad.net/~bzr-pqm-devel/bzr-pqm/devel
[22:38] <wallyworld_> sinzui: no, just whatever a default precise install provides. i'll try tip, thanks
[22:38] <wgrant> Morning jelmer.
[22:39] <wgrant> StevenK: Bug #928440
[22:39] <_mup_> Bug #928440: When attempting to create a new team, I'm told I am "Not allowed here" <fallout> <regression> <Launchpad itself:Triaged> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/928440 >
[22:39] <wgrant> See my comment
[22:42] <sinzui> wallyworld_, or revert to -r 80.
[22:43] <wallyworld_> sinzui: tip still breaks, so will try that rev
[22:47] <sinzui> wallyworld_, the branch is in ec2 now
[22:47] <wallyworld_> sinzui: and rev 80 breaks too. i need to see where RemoteBranch lives
[22:47] <wallyworld_> thanks for landing
[22:48] <wallyworld_> sinzui: the issue is the version of bzrlib
[22:48] <sinzui> wallyworld_, yes, I think I am using the system lib
[22:49] <wallyworld_> sinzui: makes sense. i am using the one from lp-sourcedeps
[23:16] <wgrant> lifeless: Shall I start landing my heat incineration branches?
[23:27] <lifeless> wgrant: yes
[23:27] <lifeless> noone has flamed us AFAICT
[23:27]  * thumper flames lifeless
[23:27] <wgrant> That was my thinking
[23:27]  * thumper flames wgrant and wallyworld for good measure
[23:27] <wgrant> Uhoh
[23:28]  * thumper leaves again
[23:28] <wallyworld> thumper: what have i done this time?
[23:28] <thumper> wallyworld: I'm sure you know...
[23:28] <wallyworld> thumper: well, it could be one or soooo many things
[23:28] <wallyworld> s/or/of
[23:29] <wgrant> lifeless: Does this count as removing complexity to offset disclosure? :P
[23:29] <lifeless> wgrant: I can see we're going ot have fun with that
[23:29] <lifeless> disclosure is offsetting user ticket complexity and performance suckiness too
[23:29] <wgrant> It is
[23:30] <wgrant> I am trying to respect the 5s rule with bug searches.
[23:30] <wgrant> As much as I can.
[23:30] <lifeless> anyhow
[23:30] <lifeless> heat was signed off on by stakeholders including ubuntu, for the changes effective monday
[23:31] <lifeless> I see no reason to wait an extended period
[23:31] <wgrant> Sure.
[23:31] <wgrant> The stakeholders aren't the only stakeholders, but indeed the outcry seems to be nonexistent.
[23:31] <lifeless> wgrant: btw
[23:31] <wgrant> Which is as I expected.
[23:31] <lifeless> wgrant: you can't delete the garbo job straight away
[23:31] <wgrant> Oh?
[23:32] <wgrant> (he says, as he Ctrl+Cs the lp-landing of the garbo job removal)
[23:32] <lifeless> exercise for the reader. You will facepalm.
[23:32] <lifeless> tell me if you timeout ;)
[23:33] <lifeless> rick_h: is bug 928500 your work?
[23:33] <_mup_> Bug #928500: 'Series and Milestones' graph not loading - LPJS is not defined <graph> <javascript> <latency> <loading> <lpjs> <milestone> <series> <Launchpad itself:New> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/928500 >
[23:33] <wgrant> lifeless: I don't see the issue.
[23:33] <lifeless> wgrant: we are changing the rule for heat calculation to not include age.
[23:34] <lifeless> wgrant: what process will we use to update bugs that *are not changed* to use the new rule ?
[23:34] <wgrant> lifeless: I decided that we don't care enough.
[23:34] <wgrant> Do we?
[23:34] <lifeless> Well, if we can point any-and-all 'wtf' bug reports to you, sure.
[23:35] <lifeless> I think its pretty cheap to let the garbo do one full scan post-heat-calculation-change, and it ensures that it is all consistent
[23:35] <wgrant> Then I'll mark the bug as affecting and then not-affecting me, and then say "wtf" back because the value is correct :)
[23:35] <wgrant> But true.
[23:36] <wgrant> So, I guess I'll put the DB patch in a separate pipe and do that first.
[23:37] <lifeless> \o/
[23:37] <wgrant> lifeless: Hm,
[23:37] <wgrant> lifeless: Except that the updater never completes.
[23:37] <wgrant> Bug #906193
[23:37] <lifeless> wgrant: I'm pretty sure it is incremental
[23:37] <wgrant> Probably better to do a one-off
[23:37] <_mup_> Bug #906193: BugHeatUpdater never completes <Launchpad itself:In Progress by wgrant> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/906193 >
[23:37] <wgrant> It's not
[23:37] <wgrant> Oh
[23:37] <wgrant> I guess it is
[23:37] <lifeless> the warning was bogus, last I looked at it
[23:37] <lifeless> it doesn't do a full scan in 1 hour
[23:38] <wgrant> Yeah, true.
[23:38] <wgrant> It probably never catches up, though.
[23:38] <wgrant> Anyway, will land the DB patch without the garbo dropping.
[23:38] <lifeless> let me check ze code
[23:39] <lifeless> wgrant: so yeah -
[23:39] <lifeless>     def _outdated_bugs(self):
[23:39] <lifeless>         outdated_bugs = getUtility(IBugSet).getBugsWithOutdatedHeat(
[23:39] <lifeless>             self.max_heat_age)
[23:39] <wgrant> But it seems to never finish.
[23:39] <wgrant> Which means it is behind.
[23:39] <wgrant> It's incremental, but probably never catches up.
[23:40] <lifeless> your new function should be cheaper
[23:40] <wgrant> I suspect it's better just to do a one-off four-line script to update everything.
[23:40] <wgrant> It is about 5 times cheaper, true.
[23:40] <lifeless> I don't have an opinion; script is fine if thats what you think is best
[23:40] <lifeless> my reading of the code is that the heat updater will, on each run, do the lowest-id N older-than-X bugs
[23:41] <lifeless> this could be always be behind but still hit everything
[23:41] <wgrant> It does, yes.
[23:41] <wgrant> Oh?
[23:41] <wgrant> What if the first hundred thousand bugs get updated regularly?
[23:41] <wgrant> The top 800000 never will
[23:41] <lifeless> so lets say it takes Y days to become stale
[23:42] <lifeless> mm, rephrase
[23:42] <lifeless> runs hourly
[23:42] <lifeless> in one hour, it does N bugs
[23:42] <lifeless> if the number of bugs *becoming stale* per hours is greater than N
[23:42] <wgrant> I wouldn't expect it to be, but it looks like isDone is never hit.
[23:42] <wgrant> Which suggests that it is.
[23:43] <lifeless> then after X days, it will have to do the first N again, and you'll have a loop over 24*Y*N bugs
[23:43] <lifeless> any bug updated for other reasons within that Y period will perturbate the loop and get other bugs updated.
[23:43] <lifeless> anyhoo; shrug. Like I say, choose the best use of your time w/curtis, and have fun.


[00:04] <seattlegaucho> valorie:
[00:04] <seattlegaucho> wondering where to get help w/ errors in amarok compilation
[00:05] <valorie> in #amarok
[00:05] <valorie> what's the prob?
[00:05] <seattlegaucho> sorry to ping you here, but my Q got lost in #amarok
[00:05] <valorie> I read the backlog, but maybe I missed it....
[00:05] <valorie> ok
[00:05] <valorie> np
[00:05] <seattlegaucho> This type of error:
[00:05] <seattlegaucho> In file included from /home/gnarvaja/src/amarok/src/context/applets/info/InfoApplet.cpp:18:
[00:05] <seattlegaucho> /home/gnarvaja/src/amarok/src/context/applets/info/InfoApplet.h:34:22: error: qwebview.h: No such file or directory
[00:06] <seattlegaucho> I want to know if it is due to a mismatch in version numbers in one of the libraries or something different
[00:06] <valorie> well, the first thing I do when I get errors is build clean
[00:06] <valorie> every once in awhile the updates mess something up
[00:07] <seattlegaucho> this was right after downloading source code in a brand new (aka virgin) subdir
[00:07] <valorie> are you following Myriam's blog directions, or what?
[00:07] <seattlegaucho> yes and no (tried 2 diff builds)
[00:07] <valorie> hmm
[00:07] <seattlegaucho> same results in diff files
[00:07] <valorie> I just built
[00:07] <valorie> in kde 4.6
[00:08] <valorie> so there were a few things I had to build clean
[00:08] <valorie> including amarok
[00:08] <seattlegaucho> Myriam's instructions: I have a mismatch in one of the dev libraries and can not upgrade w/o disrupting my work desktop
[00:08] <valorie> oh, that sucks
[00:08] <valorie> I would write to -devel with that
[00:08] <valorie> because my knowledge is only the most basic
[00:08] <seattlegaucho> so I went w/ the Ubuntu lp: which mirrors git ... but I can do it for my exact version(s) I have on my desktop
[00:09] <seattlegaucho> ... and failed further along
[00:09] <seattlegaucho> I just want to understand some basic DB designs :(
[00:09] <seattlegaucho> 'k ... that's good advice ... mailing list
[00:11] <seattlegaucho> my message in #amarok was @ 15:15 PST in case you're curious ... it's self - explanatory why it might have been lost in the noise ;)
[00:12] <valorie> yes, I need to smack markey around
[00:12] <valorie> there is the -devel chan for his craziness
[00:13] <valorie> shouldn't be int he public chan
[00:13] <seattlegaucho> :)
[00:14] <seattlegaucho> we should have at least one hack-a-thon a Q to exchange our latests achievements/results/frustrations/expectations
[00:15] <seattlegaucho> maybe set up an agenda / interest / topic on the wiki before each session
[00:15] <seattlegaucho> watcha thunk?
[00:24] <valorie> well, they are scheduling another multimedia sprint in Randa, Switzerland in July
[00:24] <valorie> might be a good idea to apply to go
[00:25] <valorie> they spend most of a week altogether in one large house, hacking and hiking the Alps
[00:25] <valorie> sounds quite amazing
[00:25] <valorie> but if you have a proposal about one in IRC, say so in -devel
[00:25] <valorie> you are in there, correct?
[01:18] <seattlegaucho> I was thinking something more humble for #ubuntu-us-wa :)
[01:18] <seattlegaucho> with a broader interest ... ie: why not 10.10? for those (like me) who are sticking to LTS for now
[01:19] <seattlegaucho> ... or general issues as in "setting up a VM to <your-choice-of-tasks>"
[01:19] <seattlegaucho> ... or ...
[01:19] <seattlegaucho> etc
[01:20] <seattlegaucho> if there are no items in the wiki, we call it off
[01:21] <seattlegaucho> ... anyway ... just an idea
[01:21] <seattlegaucho> maybe someone can comment overnight
[01:22] <seattlegaucho> I'm about to sign off and go home
[01:25] <valorie> oh, OK
[01:25] <valorie> i don't know how much I could add to that stuff
[01:25] <valorie> I'm only an expert in a few narrow areas
[01:27] <seattlegaucho> ... so am I ... but I'm sure we can tap in other areas of expertise from the others
[01:32] <valorie> oooo, I just re-read
[01:32] <valorie> sticking to LTS?
[01:32] <valorie> hmmm
[01:32]  * valorie is 10.10, with KDE 4.6
[01:32] <valorie> rc1
[01:33] <valorie> except for kpk, everything is cool
[01:33] <valorie> so I'm trying out muon instead
[01:57] <DK12> hello everyone....any seattles?
[02:04] <valorie> hi DK12
[02:04]  * valorie lives south of Seattle
[02:05] <valorie> outside of Black Diamond
[02:05] <valorie> you?
[02:06] <DK12> just north of seattle, edmonds area
[02:07] <valorie> nice!
[02:08] <valorie> pretty up there
[02:08] <DK12> its hard to stray too far :)
[02:09] <valorie> well, the channel is for the state, and a few who just are interested in the project hang out here too
[02:09] <valorie> been a bit of a slow start for the project
[02:11] <DK12> i can imagine, whos mod here?
[02:11] <valorie> Salt, who mods both here and in #gslug
[02:14] <DK12> i don't know much about linux but i'm learning slowly...i've barely scratched the surface of using the command line
[02:15] <valorie> same here
[02:15] <valorie> I'm a writer, and a user
[02:15] <valorie> Sysinfo for 'valorie-HP-Pavilion-dv7-Notebook-PC': Linux 2.6.35-24-generic running KDE Development Platform 4.5.90 (4.6 RC1), CPU: AMD Turion X2 Dual-Core Mobile RM-74 at 550 MHz (4389 bogomips), HD: 104/363GB, RAM: 3660/3708MB, 200 proc's, 5.10h up


[03:15] <EoflaOE> Hello everyone and Bashing-om
[03:19] <Wild_Man> hi EoflaOE
[03:19] <EoflaOE> Hello Wild_Man, how is your day going?
[03:20] <Wild_Man> EoflaOE, good now it is over
[03:20] <Wild_Man> and yours?
[03:20] <EoflaOE> Going fine.
[03:23] <Wild_Man> That is good
[03:24] <Wild_Man> Its Friday night here almost 10:30 pm
[03:25] <EoflaOE> Yes, and I have Saturday 6:25AM
[14:23] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::OMG!Ubuntu:: 14 Essential Ubuntu Keyboard Shortcuts @ https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/?p=150720 (by Joey Sneddon)


[08:23] <UbuntuMY> peraktechnetwork was added by: peraktechnetwork
[15:12] <UbuntuMY> Syafiq Din was added by: Syafiq Din