[00:00] <Xgates> yofel does it need to have Modaliases for the Broadcom 802.11 Linux STA driver installed?
[00:00] <Arv3n> bjsnider, so.. my monitor's going bad? :S
[00:00] <Amaranth> yofel: Nope, the package works fine here (macbook)
[00:00] <bjsnider> Arv3n, it was probably always like that
[00:00] <Amaranth> oh, wrong thing
[00:00] <Arv3n> no, it actually wasnt even like this on alpha 6
[00:00] <Amaranth> hehe
[00:00] <Arv3n> bjsnider, alpha 6 worked fine. beta doesnt.
[00:01] <Xgates> Amaranth: you're running a macbook pro?
[00:01]  * Amaranth stabs nvidia
[00:01] <Amaranth> Xgates: nah, MacBook4,1
[00:01] <Amaranth> No nvidia for me!
[00:01]  * Amaranth dances
[00:01] <penguin42> Amaranth: Compiz does seem to work on my 945G
[00:01] <Xgates> ahh ok but you also have the broadcom 4322 wireless on it?
[00:01] <bjsnider> Amaranth, doesn't that have the 9400 m chip?
[00:01] <Amaranth> Xgates: 02:00.0 Network controller: Broadcom Corporation BCM4328 802.11a/b/g/n (rev 03)
[00:02] <Amaranth> bjsnider: Nope, that's the MacBook5,1
[00:02] <Xgates> ok I have 4322
[00:02] <Amaranth> bjsnider: I have the last one before nvidia
[00:02] <Xgates> Amaranth: did you also install ---> Modaliases for the Broadcom 802.11 Linux STA driver ?
[00:02] <bjsnider> well, you'd better buy the 5,1
[00:02] <methril_home> anyone have any advice to check an SSD ext3 fs?
[00:02] <beck-and-call> Are there any known regressions involving Intel graphics on Karmic?  I just upgraded to the beta release, and suddenly Xorg is eating all the CPU it can get its hands on.
[00:02] <Amaranth> bjsnider: Nope, my next laptop won't be a mac because they switched to nvidia
[00:02] <penguin42> beck-and-call: Seems OK to me on a 945G intel
[00:03] <Amaranth> beck-and-call: Yes, reboot a couple times
[00:03] <NoelJB> Amaranth, what's wrong with nvidia?  don't you want good graphics?
[00:03] <yofel> Amaranth: I don't have any issues with my nvidia cards here
[00:03] <Xgates> Amaranth: did you also install ---> Modaliases for the Broadcom 802.11 Linux STA driver ?
[00:03] <Amaranth> race condition between the loading of intel_agp and i915
[00:03] <DexterF> hi
[00:03] <Arv3n> Amaranth, i just noticed in top i get 100% cpu usage as well with Xorg.. and a bad resolution.
[00:03] <beck-and-call> Amaranth: Ugh.
[00:03] <Amaranth> NoelJB, yofel: I work on compiz. I see all the nvidia stupidity
[00:03] <bjsnider> Amaranth, why do you hate good graphics?
[00:03] <yofel> Amaranth: oh yeah, true ^^
[00:03] <Amaranth> We recently hit a bug in the nvidia driver I reported 3 years ago
[00:04] <yofel> lol
[00:04] <Amaranth> One that is easy to reproduce and a rather bad problem
[00:04] <penguin42> Amaranth: I am seeing one odd thing, and I'm not sure if it's compiz - but the text in the tabs on my gnome terminals and on the menus isn't antialiased any more
[00:04] <maxflax> NoelJB - well I figured out that it is detecting that my wifi is turned off by the kill switch which its not - but I don't know how to fix that
[00:04] <bjsnider> yeah, there are no bugs in the radeon/fglrx/intel drivers
[00:04] <Xgates> Amaranth: if it's not to much trouble can you please answer my question ? :)
[00:04] <penguin42> no, make that menu bar
[00:04] <DexterF> hi
[00:04] <NoelJB> maxflax, I'd have to check, but I believe that is reported to nm/mm.
[00:04] <Amaranth> bjsnider: Are there "your system looks exploded" bugs from 3 years ago in those drivers?
[00:04] <yofel> hi DexterF
[00:04] <Amaranth> bjsnider: Those drivers also don't make compiz crash on exit
[00:05] <DexterF> are there kde3 packages and installation/upgrade instructions for 9.10 yet?
[00:05] <Amaranth> bjsnider: And they don't screw up when you run out of VRAM
[00:05] <bjsnider> don't they?
[00:05] <rrva> penguin42: i have ctrl-w problems
[00:05] <Xgates> hello am I still in the channel anyone see me?
[00:05] <yofel> DexterF: not in the ubuntu repositories, maybe somebody has a ppa for it?
[00:05] <Amaranth> bjsnider: nvidia now has the buggiest drivers for linux
[00:05] <yofel> Xgates: yep ;)
[00:05] <penguin42> Xgates: Nope, can't see you
[00:05] <DexterF> ppwhat?
[00:05] <rrva> penguin42: also with chromium latest ppa, and alt-left also double-fires
[00:05] <penguin42> rrva: Hmm OK, I wonder where those bugs are supposed to be reported?
[00:06] <DexterF> Amaranth: how's that?
[00:06] <maxflax> NoelJB - ok, tried the rfkill command and that says that the Wireless land is Hard blocket = Yes
[00:06] <bjsnider> Amaranth, that's completely absurd
[00:06] <Xgates> ok I thought maybe I disconnected I GUESS Amaranth is just ignoring me :(
[00:06] <KDM> Hey guys
[00:06] <Amaranth> Xgates: I don't have an answer
[00:06] <Amaranth> Xgates: I installed karmic alpha 5 and clicked a button and my wireless worked
[00:06] <yofel> hi KDM
[00:06] <KDM> My Karmic Koala beta isn't showing any packages in Synaptic except ones that are already installed
[00:06] <maxflax> NoelJB - So if I can disable that rfkill detection I can get my wifi up and running again hopefully
[00:06] <KDM> does anyone know how to fix this?
[00:07] <beck-and-call> Amaranth: Am I going to need to reboot several times every time I notice Xorg eating 100% CPU, or is this one-time-only?  And is there anything I can do to force correct loading order?
[00:07] <Xgates> Amaranth: you're not on the beta right now?
[00:07] <iceroot> KDM: #ubuntu+1
[00:07] <Amaranth> Xgates: I am
[00:07] <rrva> penguin42: http://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/list ?
[00:07] <yofel> KDM: did you make sure in software sources that you don't only have the cd enabled?
[00:07] <yofel> iceroot: this IS ubuntu+1
[00:07] <Amaranth> Xgates: I've been upgrading since I did a clean install at alpha 5 time (redid my partitioning)
[00:07] <GENT> will the final karmic koala  be useing the Linux 2.6.21 kernel ?
[00:07] <Amaranth> GENT: yes
[00:07] <bjsnider> GENT, no
[00:07] <Xgates> Amaranth: ok can you please open Synaptic and type 'Broadcom' and tell if you see 'Modaliases for the Broadcom 802.11 Linux STA' installed?
[00:07] <Amaranth> err, 2.6.31
[00:07] <yofel> GENT: 2.6.31 yes
[00:07] <KDM> only CD enabled? O_o
[00:07] <iceroot> yofel: :( i was wndering about that many karmic questions... i am sorry, though i am at #ubuntu
[00:08] <NoelJB> maxflax, Oh!  I wonder if your device is blacklisted for some reason!
[00:08] <Amaranth> Xgates: The -modaliases files are broadcom, nvidia, and fglrx are all installed by default
[00:08] <Xgates> ok thank
[00:08] <Xgates> s
[00:08] <Amaranth> Xgates: I just remember that :P
[00:08] <GENT> so this will be included right ? http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=651&num=1
[00:08] <Xgates> well let me reboot this thing and see if I can get wireless going
[00:09] <NoelJB> maxflax, which wireless chip do you have?  I seem to recall seeing something being blacklisted in a recent changelog.
[00:09] <bjsnider> GENT, it already _is_ included
[00:09] <yofel> KDM: only thing I can think of where that would happen
[00:09] <Amaranth> GENT: Since a couple years ago, yes.
[00:09] <penguin42> rrva: OK, I'll report it on there
[00:09] <maxflax> NoelJB - Intel .. must check modell
[00:09] <Amaranth> GENT: We've had that since feisty or gutsy
[00:10] <GENT> oh ok
[00:10] <Amaranth> beck-and-call: Every time it happens
[00:10] <GENT> nice to know that we are ahead of the game
[00:10] <Amaranth> GENT: Are you kidding? Every distro has had that for 2 years
[00:11] <KDM> I cant believe it was as simple as the boxes not being checked T_T
[00:11] <rrva> penguin42: test alt-left, alt-right
[00:11] <methril_home> any other utility for checking SDD drives?
[00:11] <KDM> thank you
[00:11] <methril_home> only fsck?
[00:11] <beck-and-call> Amaranth: Is the F/OSS (or Catalyst) R[6,7]xx code ready for use yet?  I have switchable graphics, and I could just use that instead?
[00:11] <penguin42> rrva: Hmm it seems odd as well
[00:11] <maxflax> NoelJB - Intel Corporation PRO/Wireless 4965 AG or AGN
[00:11] <rrva> le
[00:11] <yofel> KDM: np, I'm curious though how that happened...
[00:11] <GENT> Amaranth, sorry im sill new here :3
[00:11] <maxflax> NoelJB - is what lspci says anyway
[00:12] <Amaranth> beck-and-call: We have a catalyst driver for karmic
[00:12] <rrva> penguin42: yes, it Ã*might* skiput not always
[00:12] <Amaranth> beck-and-call: The intel bug should be fixed before final, can't really say when beyond that though
[00:12] <Amaranth> People keep reporting that bug against compiz though
[00:12] <penguin42> rrva: Also backspace is doing something odd
[00:12] <beck-and-call> methril_home: If you mean SSD, no, there's nothing else, unless you are or know an engineer who can speak directly to your SSD's controller.
[00:12] <Amaranth> They don't notice their CPU at 100% trying to keep up with Xorg, they just notice their cube went away
[00:12] <beck-and-call> Amaranth: *Should* I use the AMD core instead?
[00:13] <NoelJB> maxflax, I have Intel Corporation PRO/Wireless 4965 AG or AGN [Kedron] Network Connection [8086:4230] (rev 61)
[00:13] <Amaranth> beck-and-call: Well, it'll use more power
[00:13] <NoelJB> And it is working.
[00:13] <shentino> woohoo
[00:13] <beck-and-call> Amaranth: I'll live.  One maxed core is already throwing huge amounts of heat.
[00:13]  * shentino is now on karmic beta
[00:13] <adz21c> hi, amarok-common 2.2.0-0ubuntu1 seems to be missing. Anyone know where I can get it?
[00:13] <beck-and-call> Amaranth: And even mostly-working 3D code should beat the snot out of an Intel 3D decelerator.
[00:13] <thiebaude> beck-and-call, im using amd dual core
[00:14] <NoelJB> maxflax, I run rfkill list and everything is "no"
[00:14] <maxflax> NoelJB - looks like my card.. got an Dell laptop
[00:14] <methril_home> beck-and-call, i'm an engineer, i only need datasheets ;)
[00:15] <penguin42> rrva: Issue 23756
[00:15] <maxflax> NoelJB - very strange.. the wifi is up and I can use apps like kismet to scan for APs .. but rfkill says Blocked
[00:15] <ActionParsnip> adz21c: amd64 or i686?
[00:15] <beck-and-call> Amaranth: I just want to be clear on whether the AMD case is overall better for performance and bugginess, whether the radeon driver is working for > R6xx cores, if I should use the Cat drivers instead, and if so which package I should be force-installing for Cat. :D
[00:16] <Amaranth> adz21c: mirror broken/out-of-date probably
[00:16] <beck-and-call> thiebaude: Not that AMD.  The side of the AMD house that makes GPU cores.  They still call themselves "ATi" occasionally.
[00:16] <thiebaude> beck-and-call, ahh ok my bad,lol
[00:16] <maxflax> NoelJB - But what I have done is changes in BIOS how the kill switch work.. I set it to only control the blutooth
[00:16] <adz21c> ActionParsnip: amd64. Amaranth: I checked on packages.ubuntu.com and it can't seem to find it either
[00:17] <NoelJB> maxflax, does that work now?
[00:17] <Amaranth> beck-and-call: The r600 is going to be faster, the radeon driver only has (awesome) 2D acceleration, we have a catalyst driver from AMD just for Ubuntu that works in karmic
[00:17] <maxflax> NoelJB - Blutooth works when i set the switch to on..
[00:17] <Amaranth> !info amarok-common
[00:17] <beck-and-call> Amaranth: Okay, sounds like Cat is the best bet, then.  Package name?  Do I need to pull it from a PPA somewhere, or... ?
[00:18] <Amaranth> beck-and-call: fglrx-installer
[00:18] <NoelJB> maxflax, when did you make that BIOS change?
[00:18] <beck-and-call> Amaranth: Thansk.
[00:18] <beck-and-call> Er, thanks, even.
[00:18] <Amaranth> adz21c: Ok, seems to be out of date
[00:18] <maxflax> long ago, worked for me in Jaunty
[00:18] <NoelJB> maxflax, see https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/278008
[00:18] <Amaranth> adz21c: I would think it would be a part of the same package as amarok but perhaps not. In that case it may still be building. Try again in a couple hours.
[00:18] <NoelJB> apparently, some systems DEFAULT to rfkill!  you need the switch to ENABLE the radio.
[00:19] <maxflax> NoelJB - Can't I just disable the rfkill check.. I like not always having blutooth running
[00:20] <ActionParsnip> adz21c: looks like its not made yet: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=8047329
[00:20] <beck-and-call> Dropping off to see what happens when I switch GPUs in firmware setup...
[00:21] <adz21c> ActionParsnip: Ok thanks :-) guess I will have to be patient
[00:21] <Amaranth> adz21c: Seems to be a broken package, amarok and amarok-common are from the same source package so should have shown up at the same time
[00:22] <ActionParsnip> adz21c: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/amarok/2:2.2.0-0ubuntu1/+build/1271831
[00:22] <adz21c> Amaranth: thats what I thought
[00:23] <Amaranth> adz21c: Seems they dropped amarok-common from the packaging...
[00:23] <adz21c> ActionParsnip: that doesn't seem to list -common? did they forget to remove the dependency?
[00:23]  * Amaranth heads to the grocery store
[00:23] <ActionParsnip> not sure. I think its a case of sit and wait or compile your own.
[00:24] <NoelJB> maxflax, try putting that BIOS setting back, and we can talk about bluetooth afterwards.
[00:24] <Freeaqingme> I'm not sure how I did it, but I just managed to install it. Though it was complaining first about that package missing
[00:24] <Freeaqingme> (I definitely didn't compile it)
[00:25] <maxflax>  NoelJB - ok.. rebooting to change setting
[00:25] <yofel> adz21c: just checked the source, amarok-common wasn't removed from the package, no idea where it is though. failed to build maybe
[00:26] <penguin42> yofel: Has it's name changed? Is it now an amarok2 something?
[00:26] <Freeaqingme> nope, it's amarok amarok-common and amarok-utils
[00:27] <IdleOne> need help figuring out why my karmic install freezes when I try to start any application, where can I look for errors? on 8.10 live cd now
[00:27] <penguin42> IdleOne: dmesg is a good start
[00:27] <adz21c> yofel: surely if -common failed to build it wouldn't include the associated packages that are dependant on it into the repo
[00:27] <penguin42> IdleOne: But then if it's completely frozen that will be hard - see if you can ctrl-alt-f1 to switch to a console to do that, also note things like if capslock works
[00:28] <IdleOne> penguin42,  ctrl-alt-f1 does not work. no keybord or mouse response at all
[00:29] <penguin42> IdleOne: It'll be hard then to track it down I guess; you could try alt-sysrq-t and then alt-sysrq-s and then look in /var/log/messages after reboot to see if there's anything useful
[00:29] <yofel> adz21c: I can't find amarok-common on the lp build page, but the debian/control file of amarok still has it, so maybe something in the packaging got broken
[00:29] <yofel> I'll try to rebuild it here
[00:31] <IdleOne> penguin42, so what your telling me is to look for something in logs? what logs? I don't see any /var/log/messages
[00:32] <penguin42> IdleOne: Really? I have one
[00:32] <IdleOne> penguin42, scratch that
[00:32] <penguin42> IdleOne: But also the alt-sysrq-t should output a dump of all the current processes at the point you hit it to the log - now if it's 100% dead that won't help, but alt-sysrq sometimes gets stuff when all else is dead
[00:36] <Xgates> ok wireless is working, I guess the update fixed whatever was going on....

[00:36] <Xgates> ok now sound that's not working and it should
[00:37] <IdleOne> guess it doesn't help at all that I have no idea what I am looking for
[00:37] <sebsebseb> Black_Phantom: ok
[00:37] <maxflax> NoelJB - got it to work doing but not by changing in bios.
[00:37] <Black_Phantom> sebsebseb, the burning problem could be from the software ?
[00:37] <sebsebseb> Black_Phantom: First of all before I say some stuff,  I am going to ask you this,  why do you want to do the beta?
[00:38] <tbone> [18:35] <tbone> anyone know where kdm gets launched from
[00:38] <tbone> [18:35] <tbone> like where in what script?
[00:38]  * penguin42 would expect /etc/init.d/kdm ?
[00:38] <maxflax> NoelJB - I turned the computer off and turned the switch on, then I booted and now it sees my wifi and rfkill says not blocked
[00:38] <Black_Phantom> sebsebseb, because I believe I want to discover its new features + testing it, both way I have two pcs so i dont have important data on my 2nd one
[00:39] <sebsebseb> Black_Phantom: to be honest there isn't realy anything major as such to test in 9.10
[00:39] <Black_Phantom> i see
[00:39] <sebsebseb> Black_Phantom: the main reason for you to have 9.10 though I think would be this :)
[00:39] <sebsebseb> Ext4
[00:39] <Black_Phantom> lol no dont wrry i dont have data in perabytes lol
[00:39] <maxflax> NoelJB - So this means that I have to boot the computer with the switch on and when boot and done I can turn the switch off because now it doesn't effect
[00:40] <sebsebseb> since it has a proper kernel for it and that, so  it's nice and stable and default,  unlike with 9.04 where it didn't have a proper kernel for it,  and  it wasn't perfectly stable and  optional
[00:40] <sebsebseb> Black_Phantom: no me either, but
[00:40] <sebsebseb> Black_Phantom: with / in Ext4  get much faster boot up, shut down, and disk checking after 23 or so boots
[00:40] <tbone> penguin42: yeah you are correct
[00:40] <Black_Phantom> aha i see
[00:40] <sebsebseb> Black_Phantom: well I assume that's with /boot in there as well
[00:40] <NoelJB> maxflax, if you boot with it on, it doesn't recognize?  You have to boot with it off and toggle it?  Sounds like the bug I showed you, which was supposed to have been fixed.
[00:41] <sebsebseb> Black_Phantom: so if you were to upgrade from hardy where you got Ext3 I assume?
[00:41] <Black_Phantom> sebsebseb, am facing problems burning the cd
[00:41] <Black_Phantom> sebsebseb, yes
[00:41] <NoelJB> maxflax, oh, sorry. mis-read it.
[00:41] <sebsebseb> Black_Phantom: you would have to go through 8.10,  and then 9.04
[00:41] <Black_Phantom> yeah thats what am doing
[00:41] <sebsebseb> Black_Phantom: and then if you want Ext4 you would have to convert your Ext3 file system
[00:41] <sebsebseb> Black_Phantom: ,but then you might not get full proper Ext4 as well
[00:41] <Black_Phantom> why ?
[00:41] <sebsebseb> ,because the conversion might not be good enough
[00:41] <Xgates> ok Karmic is using alsa 1.0.20 are there any plan to use 1.0.21? Because the Intel HDA that is also a part of Nvidia that is on the latest macbook pros doesn't work ---->  'lspci' -- Audio device: nVidia Corporation MCP79 High Definition Audio (rev b1)
[00:41] <Xgates>
[00:42] <sebsebseb> I am not sure how good the conversion really is
[00:42] <Xgates> ooops sorry on that guys
[00:42] <sebsebseb> Black_Phantom: might as well clean install
[00:42] <NoelJB> maxflax, boot with it on, and you can put a command in  /etc/rc.local to turn off your bluetooth
[00:42] <sebsebseb> Black_Phantom: quicker
[00:42] <Black_Phantom> my plan was to install the beta, then upgrade it to the release when its released
[00:42] <maxflax> NoelJB - what command do I put in rc.local?
[00:42] <Black_Phantom> yeah I understand sebsebseb , but I told u am facing problems burning the cd
[00:42] <sebsebseb> Black_Phantom: that will probably be ok, but even with a beta, something could go wrong, resulting with people having a reason to clean install the final
[00:42] <sebsebseb> Black_Phantom: What kind of problems?
[00:43] <Black_Phantom> sebsebseb, while burning all of a sudden an error happens
[00:43] <Xgates> Please tell me the Ubuntu team can get alsa-1.0.21 going when it's final
[00:43] <NoelJB> maxflax, what happens if you do rfkill block bluetooth ?
[00:43] <sebsebseb> Black_Phantom: What's the error?
[00:43] <tbone> Ok so i need some advice on my box only does not make into kdm,  xorg.0.log xf86OpenConsole: VT_WAITACTIVE failed: Interrupted system call
[00:43] <Black_Phantom> and I was using PowerISO on Windows
[00:43] <sebsebseb> Black_Phantom: Also did you md5sum  your ISO, I guess not
[00:43] <Black_Phantom> some long code
[00:43] <sebsebseb> md5sum
[00:43] <sebsebseb> check the ISO
[00:43] <sebsebseb> make sure it's a good download
[00:43] <sebsebseb> DId you do this? No?
[00:43] <Black_Phantom> i think its downloaded 100%
[00:43] <NoelJB> maxflax, for my system, I toggle it differently, but that's platform specific.
[00:44] <maxflax> NoelJB - well, I have just now turned the switch to off.. and the blutooth is now off but the wifi is still upp
[00:44] <sebsebseb> Black_Phantom: 99% of the time the ISO will download fine, but not always, hence why you can check the ISO to make sure it's a good download
[00:44] <Black_Phantom> sebsebseb, how can I md5sum ?
[00:44] <tbone> Xgates that a negative
[00:44] <Xgates> snd_hda_intel is the problem
[00:44] <NoelJB> maxflax, with my thinkpad, I can change it in /proc/acpi/ibm/bluetooth
[00:44] <sebsebseb> really  they should make it more clear on the Ubuntu website,  on  the download page and that, that people should md5sum  or sha1sum  the ISO's before burning to CD, to make sure they are a good download
[00:44] <tbone> but i have it installed with script
[00:45] <sebsebseb> !md5sum |  Black_Phantom
[00:45] <maxflax> NoelJB - this mean that I have to boot with the switch on and efter boot is done I can put it to off and wifi is up and blutooth down
[00:45] <NoelJB> maxflax, interesting.  if I change MY switch, it WILL turn both of the radios off.
[00:45] <Xgates> tbone: why not? support in alsa-1.0.21 is much better and compiling alsa is cake, I mean we are talking like a whole 10 mins to make a package
[00:45] <Black_Phantom> sebsebseb, whats better pidgin or empathy ?
[00:46] <sebsebseb> Black_Phantom: I still like Pidgin and last time I tried empathy it wasn't that good, however  empathy does replace Pidgin and Ekiga  in 9.10  for clean installs, but of course Pidgin can also be installed
[00:46] <tbone> i don't know why, thats what i've read somewhere.
[00:46] <maxflax> NoelJB - I have config the switch in BIOS to only control blutooth and not wifi.. I can set it to control both but and thats the default setting
[00:46] <tbone> and seems to be looking that way seen as they still using 1.20
[00:47] <NoelJB> maxflax, glad we have your WIFI working again
[00:48] <maxflax> NoelJB - jupp, annoying thou that I have to remember to put the switch to on before booting
[00:48] <Xgates> ok I thought maybe some of the Ubuntu dev team hung out here
[00:48] <sebsebseb> Black_Phantom: imgburn is good in Windows for burning the contents of an ISO to CD
[00:48] <Black_Phantom> sebsebseb, about md5sum, in the ubuntu hashes i think theres no a hash for the beta cd
[00:48] <Xgates> where can I give some input to try and get them to put it in?
[00:48] <sebsebseb> Black_Phantom: there is you just got to know where to get it from
[00:48] <maxflax> NoelJB - Hopefully it will be fixed in NM later on.. thanks for the help anyway :)
[00:48] <Black_Phantom> sebsebseb, aha thanks
[00:49] <sebsebseb> Black_Phantom: yeah so the program you check the md5sum in gives you a code, and you check it to the ones Ubuntu/Canonical provide
[00:49] <sebsebseb> Black_Phantom: and they need to be the same, and if they are that's a good download
[00:49] <maxflax> NoelJB - Almost dropped NM and installed wicd.. but only almost :D
[00:50] <Black_Phantom> sebsebseb, alright thanks man
[00:50] <NoelJB> maxflax, not really an NM issue.  possibly a driver or BIOS issue, but NM is being told that the radio IS off.
[00:51] <Black_Phantom> sebsebseb, btw can I use a CD-RW to install 9.10 ?
[00:51] <IdleOne> Black_Phantom, yes
[00:51] <maxflax> NoelJB - well it worked before in Jaunty.. stopped working in Karmic
[00:51] <Black_Phantom> good
[00:51] <sebsebseb> Black_Phantom: it's probably better to use a CD R though
[00:51] <maxflax> NoelJB - So must be a driver thing or something then..
[00:52] <beck-and-call> Amaranth: Now I have some odd lag between 2xclick-to-maximize and the actual animation, but otherwise things are much improve (including temperatures).  Thanks!
[00:52] <beck-and-call> Er, much improved.
[00:52] <tbone> how can you tell the order in which the things in init.d get booted?
[00:52] <maxflax> NoelJB - Even thou I've putted the switch to off and blutooth is gone.. it says in rflist that blutooth is not blocked. Feels like a driver problem very much!
[00:53] <thiebaude> beck-and-call, he went to the store, i dont know if he's back yet
[00:53] <Black_Phantom> ok thanks for your help sebsebseb , I have to leave now
[00:53] <thiebaude> lol
[00:53] <sebsebseb> Black_Phantom: hang on
[00:53] <sebsebseb> Black_Phantom: did you get on the page on Ubuntu.com  where the md5sum code is that you compare to?
[00:53] <Black_Phantom> sebsebseb, yes I did
[00:53] <sebsebseb> Black_Phantom: which one?
[00:53] <beck-and-call> thiebaude: Thanks for the tip.
[00:53] <yofel> tbone: look in /etc/rcX.d/ but with upstart being used more and more you should look at the dependencies of the /etc/init/ scripts
[00:53] <thiebaude> beck-and-call, np
[00:54] <Black_Phantom> sebsebseb, https://help.ubuntu.com/community/HowToMD5SUM
[00:54] <sebsebseb> Black_Phantom: no
[00:54] <sebsebseb> Black_Phantom: the page that provides the code that you compare  to
[00:54] <Black_Phantom> UbuntuHash
[00:54] <sebsebseb> Black_Phantom: the code with the code your ISO is meant to have,  about to give you that
[00:54] <Black_Phantom> its provided there
[00:54] <sebsebseb> Black_Phantom: for the beta?
[00:54] <thiebaude> beck-and-call, i cant believe 9.10 is stable for me with compiz too
[00:54] <Blizzerand> Hello there , I started upgrading to karmic with main server . But when I found it was slow I changed back to another server . Will this cause any trouble
[00:54] <Black_Phantom> sebsebseb, https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuHashes
[00:55] <Black_Phantom> sebsebseb, Theres no code for the 9.10 beta
[00:55] <sebsebseb> Black_Phantom: yes  exactly
[00:56] <cdr700> Does anyone know how to change panel font colours in karmic?
[00:56] <AlienX> anyone know if there's some weird issue with user groups and pulse where a normal user can't change the default input in padevchooser?
[00:56] <sebsebseb> Black_Phantom: ,but here there is http://releases.ubuntu.com/9.10/MD5SUMS
[00:56] <Black_Phantom> sebsebseb, I believe the code will be available when its released then ? its not available now
[00:56] <Black_Phantom> oh i see
[00:57] <sebsebseb> Black_Phantom: it is available now on the link I just gave, make sure that when you check your ISO that you get that code, and  if so  your ISO is fine
[00:57] <yofel> adz21c: amarok builds fine here, I guess the -common package was to be build on i386 or armel (which both failed)
[00:57] <Black_Phantom> thanks again sebsebseb
[00:57] <sebsebseb> Black_Phantom: also burning a CD a bit slower can help
[00:57] <yofel> adz21c: either wait for it to get fixed or build the package yourself
[00:57] <sebsebseb> Black_Phantom: np and enjoy Karmic
[00:58] <Black_Phantom> :)
[00:59] <sebsebseb> Black_Phantom: ,but you might not :D
[00:59] <cdr700> Anyone?
[00:59] <sebsebseb> Black_Phantom: probably will though
[01:00] <Black_Phantom> sebsebseb, I will have no problems with that, thats the concept of testing afterall
[01:01] <sebsebseb> Black_Phantom: when you install, having a seperate /home can be useful by the way
[01:01] <Black_Phantom> sebsebseb, you mean to back up data ?
[01:01] <sebsebseb> Black_Phantom: I mean to make future re installs or  even distro hoping much easier
[01:02] <Black_Phantom> sebsebseb, oh i see
[01:02] <mikejet> When the user's term type does not support colors, "ls -al --color=auto" should not output vt100 color escape sequences.  You can see them with "dircolors -p".
[01:02] <Black_Phantom> sebsebseb, but i guess in that way the storage will be limited for the /home partition
[01:02] <sebsebseb> Black_Phantom: so you can keep data and  program user data easilley when doing that stuff
[01:02] <sebsebseb> Black_Phantom: well you give /  like  10GB or 12GB  and  big seperate home, and some swap space I guess
[01:03] <sebsebseb> !home |  Black_Phantom
[01:03] <sebsebseb> Black_Phantom: easier doing it when installing then to an install, well I have never done it to an install
[01:04] <Black_Phantom> sebsebseb, I think i will do this when I install 9.10 because of the ext4
[01:04] <sebsebseb> Black_Phantom: 9.10 will do Ext4 by default :)  ,but it will still also put everything into  / by default hmm
[01:04] <sebsebseb> Black_Phantom: ,but you can manualley set up a seperate /home
[01:04] <Black_Phantom> yes I will do that sebsebseb
[01:05] <ninjah> Wireless doesn't work on my Inspiron 1525. Did an update and even installed the b43 module. Any suggestions
[01:05] <Black_Phantom> sebsebseb, did you test it btw ?
[01:05] <sebsebseb> Black_Phantom: test what?
[01:05] <Black_Phantom> sebsebseb, 9.10
[01:05] <yofel> ninjah: which wireless card? (run lspci in a terminal)
[01:05] <AlienX> anyone know why gnome users and groups settings doesn't show anything but root and my user? Doesn't show all the system groups anymore :(
[01:05] <cdr700> Does anyone know how to change panel font colours in karmic??
[01:05] <ninjah> yofel: Broadcom Corporation BCM4312 802.11b/g (rev 01)
[01:05] <adz21c> yofel: ok thanks for your assistance
[01:06] <sebsebseb> Black_Phantom: yes got rid of 9.04 on this computer, and did a clean install and been doing Karmic since alpha 4 on here
[01:06] <Black_Phantom> sebsebseb, hows the booting speed ? is it alot better as its spoken
[01:06] <yofel> ninjah: look into the restricted drivers, and install 'bcmwl-kernel-source' if you don't find anything there
[01:06] <sebsebseb> Black_Phantom: it's Ext4 that speeds things up,  I  used 9.04 with Ext4 also :)
[01:06] <thiebaude> sebsebseb, do you get a blank screen at startup?
[01:07] <sebsebseb> Black_Phantom: in fact the other computer still has 9.04 on it and with Ext4
[01:07] <Black_Phantom> sebsebseb, i see
[01:07] <sebsebseb> Black_Phantom: probably keep 9.04 on that one,  and then upgrade through 9.10 to 10.04 when it's time
[01:07] <sebsebseb> thiebaude: startup has  not always worked properly
[01:08] <Black_Phantom> am wondering how 20.04 will be lol
[01:08] <thiebaude> sebsebseb, yep, only until it gets to the login prompt
[01:08] <sebsebseb> thiebaude: at the moment there seems to be an issue,   and it's not loading up stuff properly, a little flashing thing on the screen, and yeah,  but  turn the computer off, and  on again, and  it boots up
[01:08] <sebsebseb> thiebaude: plus I have some other minor issues regarding boot up,  left from alpha  or whatever
[01:09] <thiebaude> sebsebseb, some other ppl have the same problem also, but its no show-stopper
[01:09] <thiebaude> compiz even works great
[01:09] <sebsebseb> thiebaude: still a good idea to do a clean install when the final is out realy though
[01:10] <thiebaude> sebsebseb, yea, when its time i'll have the 9.10 through ship-it
[01:10] <ninjah> yofel: installing bcmw-kernel-source now
[01:11] <thiebaude> sebsebseb, it will be neat installing java and flash from software center
[01:11] <sebsebseb> thiebaude: uh  centre :)
[01:11] <sebsebseb> thiebaude: silly American spellings
[01:11] <thiebaude> haha
[01:12] <sebsebseb> thiebaude: software centre is nice, but nothing major,  add/remove is good enough really,   and  installing  with commands is :)
[01:13] <sebsebseb> thiebaude: plus if I want graphical  to install stuff, well  synaptic
[01:13] <sebsebseb> thiebaude: or remove stuff or whatever
[01:13] <mikejet> This produces crazy output: export TERM=dumb ; eval `dircolors` ; ls -color=auto -al
[01:13] <thiebaude> sebsebseb, yep, i do synaptic whenever i do a new install java, flash,etc,
[01:13] <mikejet> This produces crazy output: export TERM=dumb ; eval `dircolors` ; ls --color=auto -al
[01:14] <thiebaude> but i do use medibuntu
[01:15] <sebsebseb> thiebaude: it's not needed for those
[01:16] <sebsebseb> thiebaude: Flash and Java from the normal repo
[01:17] <slacker_nl> mikejet: not for me
[01:17] <thiebaude> sebsebseb, i use it for w32 codecs
[01:17] <mikejet> slacker_nl, Is there any color displayed, or is it entirely monochrome output?
[01:17] <slacker_nl> mikejet: colors
[01:17] <sebsebseb> thiebaude: oh ok
[01:18] <thiebaude> sebsebseb, do you use compiz?
[01:18] <mikejet> slacker_nl, That's the bug. /bin/ls should notice that your "dumb" termtype cannot display colors. This is wrong output on every term type that does use the same vt100 color escape sequences.
[01:19] <sebsebseb> thiebaude: no,  well default effects  that Ubuntu comes with well  sure since it's enabled by default  I guess, but then I don't notice, and probably end up disabling them
[01:19] <sebsebseb> thiebaude: in the past I have, but it seems I coudn't get loads of the effects on here, or simpalley I didn't know how to configure the advanced settings manager, so I would
[01:19] <mikejet> slacker_nl, "/usr/bin/infocmp" says whether your termtype supports color. /bin/ls should honor that.
[01:19] <sebsebseb> thiebaude: plus compiz can cause problems with certain programs
[01:20] <sebsebseb> thiebaude: some people like using Compiz to impress Windows users, so that they give Linux a try
[01:20] <slacker_nl> mikejet: it even supports colors for my ps1
[01:20] <thiebaude> sebsebseb, i understand that
[01:21] <slacker_nl> anyways
[01:21] <slacker_nl> i'm off to bed, 2:21 am already
[01:21] <sebsebseb> thiebaude: So that they give a Linux distro a try, would be more exact above
[01:21] <sebsebseb> thiebaude: since Linux is just the kernel
[01:24] <virtuald> some program started leaking memory and chewed up my swap
[01:25] <virtuald> so i had to ssh in to do something about it
[01:25] <virtuald> i killed it from my phone but i couldn't see the process name because my phone screen is too small for top
[01:25] <virtuald> now swapoff takes forever
[01:38] <Xgates> say when I run 'debuild' I'm getting ---> dpkg-buildpackage: error: fakeroot debian/rules clean gave error exit status 2 - Is there a problem in the rules for  kdist_clean: clean?
[01:39] <yofel> Xgates: what package?
[01:39] <Xgates> alsa-driver I'm compiling
[01:39] <yofel> Xgates: do you have all build dependencies?
[01:40] <Xgates> I ran ---> apt-get install build-essential dh-make debhelper devscripts
[01:40] <yofel> Xgates: that might not be enough, run 'apt-get build-dep <pkgname>'
[01:41] <yofel> with sudo that is
[01:41] <Xgates> sorry you lost me run that for what?
[01:41] <yofel> Xgates: apt-get build-dep will install the build dependencies for a package that are defined in it's control file
[01:42] <yofel> Xgates: if you want to rebuild a package from source you'll need those
[01:42] <Xgates> ok I'm trying to compile alsa-driver which Ubuntu calls alsa-base, so you saying run this as --- apt-get build-dep alsa-base?
[01:43] <yofel> Xgates: yes
[01:43] <Xgates> ahhh ok wasn't quite sure what you were saying
[01:44] <Xgates> ok I ran it and I just ran debuild and I'm still getting the same msg:
[01:44] <Xgates> dpkg-buildpackage: error: fakeroot debian/rules clean gave error exit status 2
[01:45] <yofel> Xgates: ok, can you pastebin the debuild output please?
[01:46] <Xgates> ok this is why it's crapping ---->  make[1]: *** No rule to make target `distclean'.  Stop.
[01:47] <Gika> hello
[01:47] <yofel> Xgates: can you pastebin the output? if I just try to rebuild the package without mods it builds fine here
[01:47] <yofel> hi Gika
[01:47] <Gika> i have a problem... xsplash doesn't load. i get grub, some ugly text and then the login screen
[01:48] <Gika> there's some text when i shutdown too
[01:48] <Xgates> yofel: http://pastebin.com/m32e86652
[01:50] <Gika> (xsplash is installed of course)
[01:51] <yofel> Gika: you're not the only one with that, don't know the solution though (if there is one at the moment)
[01:51] <blakamin> Gika... the login screen is part of xsplash IIRC. that sounds like a normal karmic boot at this stage
[01:52] <Gika> shouldn't there be the white ubuntu logo in the middle of the screen instead of text? (text like services starting)
[01:52] <Gika> like when i boot from the cd
[01:53] <blakamin> not at the moment.. usplash is disabled and this is only a beta
[01:54] <Gika> oh, ok...
[01:55] <yofel> Xgates: you're trying to build the driver from the alsa homepage? Did you add a debian directory from somewhere?
[01:56] <Gika> also, i've had issues with the upgrading-- at the end of the upgrade it told me something like "your sistem could not be upgraded" (though it works fine now)
[01:56] <Xgates> yofel: yeah alsa-driver from homepage, debian direc? This is the /path I have --- /home/sar/Misc/Drivers/alsadriver-1.0.21/
[01:57] <Pretto> the sound applet only works with pulseaudio?
[01:57] <yofel> Xgates: without a debian directory that contains the dpkg control files you can't use debuild, you'll have to build and install it by hand (./configure && make   etc...)
[01:58] <yofel> Pretto: the gnome one yes, it only supports PA now
[01:59] <Pretto> yofel, PA is consuming all of my cpu here, how can i install another sound applet that works with esound?
[02:00] <yofel> Pretto: no idea, if you have issues with PA you might want to ask dtchen when he's around
[02:01] <tbone>  kdm is in my init.d but does anyone know what rc directory links to this file, cuz i think maybe mine got deleted
[02:01] <yofel> tbone: ?
[02:01] <Pretto> yofel, i've tried the #pulseaudio, but no luck
[02:01] <yofel> kdm doesn't start on boot for you?
[02:02] <yofel> Pretto: well, I'm really no audio guy, so you'll have to wait for somebody else to answer you
[02:02] <Xgates> yofel: ok, well I'm reading this https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Complete
[02:02] <tbone> yofel
[02:02] <Xgates> didn't see it mention a deb direc
[02:02] <tbone> no it doesnt
[02:02] <Pretto> yofel, thank you anyway
[02:04] <tbone> yofel: yeah it started acting up after updates today, i can manuelly start kdm, but its not loading automatically so i am just trying to figure out how all this works
[02:04] <yofel> tbone: ok... the old way was to have kdm in rc2.d but now it seems to only use upstart
[02:04] <yofel> tbone: there relevant file would be /etc/init/kdm.conf
[02:04] <yofel> I'm looking at it too
[02:04] <yofel> (using kdm too, haven't rebooted today yet though)
[02:06] <yofel> tbone: did you start kdm by running the executable or by running 'sudo start kdm' or 'sudo service kdm start' ?
[02:06] <tbone> yofel: i thought the way kdm would start is  /etc/init.d/kdm being symbolic linked from one of the rc. directerorys
[02:07] <tbone> yofel i just type kdm
[02:07] <yofel> tbone: that was the old and now deprecated sysvinit way
[02:07] <tbone> are sudo kdm
[02:07] <yofel> tbone: ok, can you try to start is as a daemon like I said? That's how it's supposed to start on boot
[02:07] <tbone> ok so there is no more links from the rc
[02:08] <tbone> ok i will try
[02:08] <tbone> 1 min
[02:08] <yofel> truth to be told I'm not sure as well how upstart works...
[02:08] <Xgates> yofel: according to another README this is all its says --->  http://pastebin.com/m11fcaff3
[02:10] <yofel> Xgates: what you might want to do is create an emtpy folder and run 'apt-get source alsa-base' in there to get the .20 source, take a look at the debian folder in there (the packaging seems to be rather complicated)
[02:14] <Xgates> yofel: but I'm not compiling the .20 source so I don't get that
[02:14] <Veinor>  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DevelopmentCodeNames
[02:15] <Veinor> What's the deal with 6.10?
[02:15] <thiebaude> Veinor, by that comment?
[02:16] <yofel> Xgates: well, if you want the .21 source installed the debian way, looking  at the packaging of .20 is a good point to start. Why do you want do a package though?
[02:17] <Veinor> The one about crackpipes.
[02:17] <Xgates> .20 doesn't work
[02:20] <Xgates> yofel: well I removed the old direcs did it all over again with new direcs and when I run dh I'm not getting a /debian path
[02:20] <Xgates> hmmm
[02:20] <yofel> Xgates: well, you should get yourself some assistence though if you want to tinker with the modules. But did you really read the README and INSTALL files for the .21 source? You don't need to package it to test it
[02:21] <Xgates> I'm not testing it I know it works I just wanted to make a pack so I didn't have to keep compiling it by hand was all
[02:22] <Xgates> ok I started this all over and it's not making the debian direc
[02:23] <Elone> anyone know how to install vmware workstation 6.5.3 ~ its installer stop working @ 62% ~
[02:24] <darthanubis> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/karmic/+source/mountall/+bug/432620
[02:24] <Xgates> ok got it to go now sheesh...
[02:24] <Xgates> at least making a /debian direc
[02:27] <Xgates> yofel: question what is a debian directory?
[02:27] <Xgates> this still isn't working
[02:27] <Xgates> according to the Ubuntu wiki all I need is a /path that has <name><version>
[02:28] <yofel> Xgates: it contains the files that tell dpkg what it's supposed to do, as well as the dependencies and changlog files for a package
[02:28] <Xgates> I thought you get this from running dh_make
[02:29] <yofel> Xgates: tbh the wiki page is at most sufficient for very simple packages
[02:29] <yofel> Xgates: haven't read it for ages and I usually only modiy packages so I'm not sure
[02:30] <Amaranth> Xgates: What are you trying to package?
[02:30] <yofel> Xgates: I'm just trying to re-package it using the .20 package as a base
[02:31] <Xgates> well according to the error this is just one thing I can see ----> No rule to make target `distclean
[02:31] <Gika> anyone knows why popup notifications appear not on the top left but slightly beloww?
[02:31] <Xgates> the rule distclean/clean is the problem is all
[02:31] <yofel> Amaranth: a new alsa-driver version, but I don't think he'll make it
[02:31] <Amaranth> Gika: So you can still see the close button for a window
[02:31] <Xgates> Amaranth: alsa-driver-1.0.21
[02:32] <Amaranth> Xgates: grab the source package for the version we have, copy the debian/ dir over, edit debian/changelog to bump the version
[02:32] <yofel> Xgates: you really should just leave it alone or wait for it to get packaged in debian/unstable and rebuild it from there then
[02:32] <Amaranth> actually there is a way to get the updated version automagically
[02:33]  * Amaranth tries to remember the command
[02:33] <yofel> you mean dch -i
[02:33] <Amaranth> no
[02:34] <Amaranth> I mean a program that uses debian/watch from the current package to download the new version and set it up to build
[02:34] <yofel> hm, don't remember it too
[02:34] <Gika> Amaranth: so it's meant to behave that way... but it's really ugly, is there a way to revert it like the way it was in 9.04?
[02:35] <yofel> copying the debian folder over at least doesn't work out of the box, need to remove the patch files first...
[02:35] <Amaranth> Gika: nope
[02:36] <Xgates> Amaranth: ---> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Recipes/DebianWatch  ??
[02:37] <DKcross> hello people
[02:37] <DKcross> i think that i have a bug kernel
[02:37] <thiebaude> DKcross, hi
[02:39] <DKcross> thiebaude,
[02:39] <DKcross> amazing for your welcome!
[02:40] <Amaranth> Xgates: That gave me the hint I needed :)
[02:40] <thiebaude> DKcross, what part of ubuntu do you work on?
[02:40] <Amaranth> ah, but we have no alsa-driver package
[02:40] <Amaranth> That's just in the kernel
[02:40] <Xgates> what sucks on that Wiki is by the way they do it you don't know what URL to use to grab something from
[02:40] <Xgates> :(
[02:41] <Amaranth> So you can't make a new package for it anyway, it'll conflict with the kernel
[02:41] <DKcross> thiebaude, why..
[02:41] <thiebaude> just wondering
[02:41] <DKcross> thiebaude,  well.. I'm not ubuntu developer.
[02:41] <thiebaude> ok
[02:42] <DanaG> oh  yeah, if you want an ALSA 1.0.20, you can try linuxant's packages (that build the modules for you).
[02:42] <DanaG> The original intent is for their modem drivers... but it happens to be a convenient way to install ALSA.
[02:42] <DKcross> thiebaude, yes..
[02:42] <DanaG> They don't have 1.0.21, though -- and karmic is already 1.0.20.
[02:42] <DKcross> well i have problems, i'm not sure, i think is the kernel bug
[02:42] <DKcross> 0000:01:00.0: BAR 6: no parent found for of device any idea about this message?
[02:42] <Amaranth> DKcross: should be harmless
[02:42] <Xgates> Amaranth: from what I see the pkg 'alsa-base' is the driver support not the kernel, so then I should be able to compile without a problem
[02:43] <Amaranth> Xgates: but alsa-base isn't the kernel modules
[02:43] <Xgates> Amaranth: if you figure out this debian/watch thing please let me know
[02:43] <Xgates> Amaranth: I just want the drivers
[02:43] <DKcross> Amaranth,  but, the start process is very slow
[02:43] <Amaranth> That's the package we file sound bugs against because we couldn't put the apport hooks in the kernel package but that's not where the modules are
[02:43] <Amaranth> Xgates: drivers == modules
[02:44] <yofel> well, I'm off to bed, gn8 all
[02:44] <Amaranth> DKcross: Not because of that
[02:44] <DKcross> Amaranth,  yes
[02:44] <DKcross> the message stay about 6 seconds or more
[02:44] <Xgates> Amaranth: ok I thought you were talking about something different, WELL alsa-base says it's the drivers/modules
[02:44] <Xgates> so what are you getting at?
[02:44] <Amaranth> Why do people assume the last line they see is the one causing slow downs?
[02:44] <DKcross> any idea about?
[02:45] <Amaranth> DKcross: Most of the boot is silent so more things are happening you just can't see them
[02:45] <DKcross> Amaranth,  sorry, but i have the problem and,. when the ubuntu start the message show about 6 seconds
[02:45] <Amaranth> DKcross: That's because it's starting more things
[02:45] <DKcross> no really
[02:45] <Amaranth> No really
[02:46] <DKcross> nop
[02:46] <Amaranth> Linus himself said so :P
[02:46] <kevin009> is it just me, or does Karmic use much less ram than the older versions did? i'm at about 170 megs instead of 270 on older versions
[02:46] <thiebaude> lol
[02:46] <DKcross> this message is after the boot process
[02:46] <aliendude5300> Hi again... I'm having trouble with an old XUbuntu system of mine, after installing updates it can no longer boot. It would appear that /dev/pts is broken.
[02:46] <Amaranth> DKcross: So you see this message in gdm?
[02:46] <Xgates> Amaranth: if alsa-base are only sound mods then why does it say it will remove ubuntu-desktop?
[02:46] <DKcross> no man, is after
[02:46] <Amaranth> Xgates: Because it provides other useful things
[02:47] <Amaranth> DKcross: Ok, don't listen to me, waste your time figuring out how that message can slow things down
[02:47] <Xgates> Amaranth: that's crazy the sound mods should only be that and if there needs to be other added features they should be kept seperate
[02:47] <Amaranth> DKcross: The only 'fix' for that message is going back to 2.6.30 or upgrading to the latest upstream kernel git
[02:47] <aliendude5300> In addition to that for some reason I'm having trouble mounting my digital camera via USB on this machine so I can transfer a picture of the error I get
[02:47] <Xgates> this complicates thing....
[02:47] <aliendude5300> :/
[02:48] <DKcross> Amaranth,  i cant understand you man..
[02:48] <DanaG> gneight?  nice.
[02:48] <DanaG> "gn8" is what I'm commenting on.
[02:48] <DKcross> i can see that isn't a friendly message
[02:49] <aliendude5300> Hmm... this just isn't my day... lsusb shows that my camera is connected but I can't get it to mount :/
[02:49] <aliendude5300> Bus 001 Device 008: ID 07b4:0109 Olympus Optical Co., Ltd C-370Z/D-535Z/X-450
[02:50] <Amaranth> DKcross: How do you know that message is causing your boot to stall?
[02:50] <aliendude5300> any ideas?
[02:50] <Amaranth> DKcross: What proof do you have?
[02:50] <DKcross> because is after the boot process
[02:50] <DKcross> and this problem include that dont show the usplash
[02:50] <Amaranth> After the boot process you see GDM so no more messages
[02:51] <Amaranth> usplash isn't supposed to be showing
[02:51] <DKcross> sorry for my english wait
[02:51] <DKcross> sorry
[02:51] <DKcross> is before, lol!
[02:51]  * aliendude5300 feels hopeless right now :(
[02:51] <DKcross> change all "after" word for before
[02:52] <Amaranth> DKcross: Before the boot process is gdm :)
[02:52] <NoelJB> Elone, I haven't checked 6.5.3 against Karmic, but 6.5.2 needed patches for the modules to compile against the kernel.
[02:52] <Xgates> Amaranth: is there a way to force an install, as in this case removing alsa-base and then installing the ubuntu-dekstop back in without it?
[02:52] <Amaranth> DKcross: That message appears while drivers are being loaded
[02:52] <Amaranth> DKcross: But the rest of the boot is silent so you wouldn't notice other things still happening
[02:53] <Amaranth> Xgates: Not without breaking dpkg to the point it wouldn't install anything else until you fixed it
[02:53] <DKcross> ok, listen... or read... first start Grub. ok
[02:53] <DKcross> next i selected ubuntu and show this problem...
[02:53] <Amaranth> DKcross: sudo aptitude install bootchart
[02:53] <aliendude5300> In addition to what I already said, on the broken machine, it seems my filesystem (/dev/sda1) is mounted read only.
[02:53] <Amaranth> Then reboot
[02:53] <Amaranth> Then you can tell for sure
[02:53] <DKcross> ok
[02:53] <DKcross> Amaranth, thanks
[02:53] <myk_robinson> hey. Trying karmic on a laptop i just replaced a screen on, it gives me a warning on bootup about the battery capacity. What utility is it using to check the battery, and how can i run it manually after attempting to "refresh" the battery by draining and filling a couple of times?
[02:53] <Xgates> Amaranth: I thought there was a feature to simply install without a dependancy
[02:54] <Amaranth> Xgates: You can force it but it'll wedge dpkg until you resolve the dependency
[02:55] <Amaranth> Xgates: Why do you need the new alsa anyway? Soundblaster X-Fi?
[02:55] <Xgates> In a package like this such as Alsa it shouldn't be linked to anything, it's absurd to do this
[02:55] <Xgates> no this is a macbook
[02:55] <Xgates> intel/nvidia hda
[02:55] <Amaranth> Xgates: It should work then
[02:55] <Amaranth> Xgates: Are you not getting the third speaker?
[02:55] <Xgates> 3rd speaker?
[02:56] <Amaranth> macbooks include a woofer
[02:56] <Amaranth> that's why sound on a macbook actually sounds good
[02:56] <Amaranth> Ubuntu couldn't use the third speaker until karmic
[02:57] <NoelJB> Amaranth, ah, is that why.  I thought it was the Harman Kardon speakers.
[02:57] <aliendude5300> sigh...
[02:57] <Xgates> ok this makes no sense, if you uninstall alsa-base it takes away ubuntu-desktop, BUT if you go to install it again in Synaptic it doesn't put ubuntu-desktop back
[02:57] <Xgates> hehe
[02:58] <Amaranth> that's expected
[02:58] <Amaranth> If you install something it doesn't install all the things that depend on it
[02:58] <Xgates> well if it's a dependancy why is that expected then?
[02:58] <Amaranth> Otherwise installing libc6 would install everything in the archive :P
[02:59] <Amaranth> Xgates: You've got the dependencies reversed, ubuntu-desktop depends on alsa-base
[02:59] <Amaranth> So if you install ubuntu-desktop it'll install alsa-base but if you install alsa-base it won't install ubuntu-desktop
[02:59] <Amaranth> Because alsa-base doesn't depend on ubuntu-desktop
[03:00] <Xgates> regardless of where the deps are there should be none alsa should be left alone to be removed
[03:01] <Amaranth> Xgates: And we consider alsa-base to be important to a desktop install
[03:01] <Amaranth> ubuntu-desktop is "the stuff we want in a default install of Ubuntu"
[03:01] <NoelJB> Amaranth, I don't think that people get how the dependencies work.
[03:01] <Amaranth> You can remove ubuntu-desktop without harming anything
[03:01] <Amaranth> you just won't get shiny new stuff we pull into the desktop automatically
[03:02] <Xgates> Amaranth: I'm talking only about sound drivers and support sure it's important but the package should be made to stand on it's own and link the deps in another way
[03:02] <Xgates> sound support should be interchangeable
[03:03] <Amaranth> *facepalm*
[03:03] <Amaranth> Let me try again.
[03:03] <Amaranth> ubuntu-desktop is the stuff we consider important
[03:03] <Amaranth> You are free to remove it and ignore our suggestion
[03:03] <tbone> sudo start kdm, doesn't start kdm
[03:03] <Xgates> I don't even know what ubuntu-desktop is
[03:04] <Xgates> Ubuntu packages online I read didn't say much
[03:04] <NoelJB> Xgates, ubuntu-desktop is essentially nothing but a meta (fake) package that depends on all the things that Ubuntu considers part of a desktop install.
[03:04] <NoelJB> so if you install nothing other than ubuntu-desktop, you'll get everything else.
[03:05] <NoelJB> think of it as the root of a dependency tree.
[03:05] <tbone> so any ideas on why kdm all of a suden stop loading
[03:06] <tbone> i can manuelly load it from command line
[03:07] <Amaranth> tbone: If you alt-f7 is it there?
[03:07] <NoelJB> tbone, no clue, but FWIW, I updated a Kubuntu 9.10 VM today, and everything still works.  So it does work here.
[03:07] <Amaranth> tbone: There was something about it not changing the vt but actually loading
[03:07] <arand> Xgates: Since you should be able to do "apt-get install ubuntu-desktop ubuntu" And get a pretty much complete ubuntu system, having the sound support in there is vital
[03:07] <tbone> hmm i didn't check that hold on
[03:08] <NoelJB> Amaranth, I thought that was fixed.
[03:08] <Amaranth> NoelJB: I thought so too
[03:08] <arand> Xgates: correction "apt-get install ubuntu-desktop ubuntu-standard"
[03:08] <Amaranth> I thought intel_agp loading after i915 was fixed too but two people have filed bugs against compiz for it today so...
[03:08] <tbone> I tried alf-f7 jst blank screen
[03:09] <tbone> its like kdm just isn't getting excuted
[03:09] <tbone> this my first time trying to figure out the boot sequence
[03:09] <tbone> i don't get how kdm gets loaded
[03:10] <tbone> by ubuntu by default
[03:10] <Amaranth> tbone: /etc/init/kdm.conf
[03:10] <Xgates> NoelJB: ok but if Ubuntu wants to evolve it should understand that 'flexibility' needs to be an important part of the process of development, afterall we are talking about an OpenSource platform and when Ubuntu does something like this then you are locking people into more of a proprietary state and unfortunately alot of bigger distros are doing this, becacuse they think that if you are using my distro why do you need anything else.
[03:10] <Xgates>
[03:10] <Amaranth> Xgates: *whoosh*
[03:11] <tbone> kdm is symbolically linked to /lib/init/upstart-job
[03:11] <Amaranth> tbone: That seems broken
[03:11] <NoelJB> Xgates, there is plenty of flexibility.
[03:11] <NoelJB> Amaranth, since you work on compiz, just out of curiosity, do you know why dragging in the workspace selector is broken in Ubuntu and works in Fedora?
[03:11] <Amaranth> NoelJB: It only works with workspaces, limitation of the applet
[03:11] <NoelJB> Amaranth, its a long-standing nit, so this isn't a rant, just a question.  :-)
[03:12] <Amaranth> NoelJB: I can't imagine Fedora using compiz with workspaces though, it's completely broken like that
[03:12] <Xgates> NoelJB: not if you can't simply uninstall alsa, this is hardly flexiable
[03:12] <Amaranth> Xgates: Let me try again.
[03:12] <Amaranth> Xgates: You don't need to have ubuntu-desktop installed.
[03:12] <Xgates> Amaranth: I got it already
[03:12] <Amaranth> Xgates: It does not need to be installed for your system to work.
[03:12] <NoelJB> Amaranth, Can you elaborate?  I don't know of anything different in that respect between my Fedora 11 install and my Ubuntu ones.
[03:13] <Xgates> Amaranth: I want it installed I don't want alsa-base whichever way you look at it this should be doable that's all I'm saying
[03:13] <Amaranth> NoelJB: Ok, workspaces is the wrong word, sorry.
[03:13] <Amaranth> Xgates: I want a pony.
[03:13] <NoelJB> LOL@Travis
[03:13] <Amaranth> Xgates: You want the thing installed that says we want you to have alsa-base but you don't want alsa-base.
[03:13] <NoelJB> Xgates, you CAN uninstall ALSA.
[03:14] <NoelJB> Xgates, but anything that DEPENDS on Alsa will also want to come out.
[03:14] <Xgates> Amaranth: ok let's back up for a second, doing things an Ubuntu way is one thing, making your own applications, pkg management, etc... but talking a program and locking it into the system, well I hope you can see what I'm trying to get at
[03:14] <Amaranth> NoelJB: There are two ways of implementing workspaces in X11, Virtual Desktops and Viewports. Virtual Desktops are what everyone else uses, Viewports are what compiz uses. You can only do things like expo and cube with viewports.
[03:14] <Xgates> alsa-base for whatever it's suppose to be should only be sound support and nothing more
[03:15] <Amaranth> Xgates: You can remove alsa-base
[03:15] <Amaranth> Xgates: You aren't forced to have it
[03:15] <Xgates> Amaranth: how long have you been using Linux?
[03:15] <Amaranth> Xgates: 2002 or so
[03:15] <Amaranth> Xgates: Been an Ubuntu developer since 2005
[03:16] <Xgates> ok so pretty long, the point I'm trying to make that you miss is that a program like Alsa in the Linux world has never been dependant on anything or the other way around
[03:16] <Xgates> that's all I'm trying to say
[03:16] <Xgates> and to do so is not really the Linux way
[03:16] <Amaranth> Xgates: You don't have to have alsa-base installed.
[03:16] <tbone> Amaranth:  yeah i can't tell there's nothing that appears to be oviously wrong in /etd/init/kdm.conf
[03:17] <Xgates> Amaranth: right, BUT ubuntu-desktop gets ripped out that I want to keep that's the problem we are discussing is it not?
[03:17] <tbone> oops: am looking on my good system
[03:17] <Amaranth> tbone: One thing I remember some talk about: It's going to try to load kdm from either /usr/bin/kdm or /usr/sbin/kdm, make sure it matches where kdm is actually located
[03:17] <Amaranth> Xgates: You don't need to have ubuntu-desktop installed either.
[03:17] <JanC> ubuntu-desktop is a meta-package...
[03:17] <Amaranth> Xgates: ubuntu-desktop is the things we want you to have installed as a part of an ubuntu-desktop
[03:17] <musikgoat1> seems like this argument is going in circles
[03:18] <Amaranth> Xgates: But if you want to change things you are free to remove it
[03:18] <NoelJB> Xgates, see the PM I just sent you.
[03:18] <Xgates> Real simple ---> I want ubuntu-desktop I don't want asla-base :)
[03:18] <tbone> Amaranth: thanks
[03:18] <NoelJB> You can purge alsa-base if you want.
[03:18] <Amaranth> It is because Xgates wants to have his cake and eat it too
[03:18] <Amaranth> And I want a pony.
[03:18] <Amaranth> And a working nvidia driver.
[03:18]  * musikgoat1 gives Amaranth a pony
[03:18] <Amaranth> All of these things are impossible.
[03:18] <NoelJB> Xgates, you can't have both, because ubuntu-desktop specifically exists to include things like alsa-base.  it is an explicit statement that you WILL have certain packages, and you don't want that.
[03:18]  * musikgoat1 gives Xgates a ubuntu-desktop sans alsa-base
[03:19] <Xgates> Amaranth: no I'm just trying to make a basic fundamental point here about the principles of a Linux system :)
[03:19] <Amaranth> Xgates: So you want the package that is "the things we want you to have installed" but you don't want the things we want you to have installed.
[03:19] <Amaranth> Xgates: So you see how silly this is?
[03:19] <NoelJB> Xgates, you can create xgates-desktop from the ubuntu-desktop source, removing alsa-base, and have your own standard desktop.
[03:19]  * NoelJB has a working nvidia driver (mostly :-p)
[03:20] <arand> Xgates: you could always repackage ubuntu-desktop not to depend on that package, I'm guessing you just edit the ./desktop-i386 file, repackage it and off you go ;)
[03:20] <Xgates> ok let's start here,  WHY does ubuntu-desk depend on alsa?
[03:20] <JanC> because that's a sane choice
[03:20] <NoelJB> because ubuntu-desktop is nothing more than a bill of goods that UBUNTU wants on a desktop!
[03:20] <Amaranth> Xgates: Because we want you to have it installed because it is sane to have it in a desktop.
[03:20] <arand> Xgates: because all normal users want sound, ubuntu-desktop is meant for ALL normal users.
[03:20] <NoelJB> That is its entire purpose.
[03:21] <Amaranth> Xgates: Maybe it'll make more sense this way: ubuntu-desktop is used to build the CDs
[03:21] <JanC> if you are insane, feel free to drop ubuntu-desktop  ;-)
[03:21] <Xgates> ok cool nothing more then what Ubuntu wants ok ok, so why not allow flexibility in that so if someone wants to make a change they can take something out and make an update or compile their own in without messing with this?
[03:21] <Amaranth> Xgates: The CD builder pulls in ubuntu-desktop and everything it depends on
[03:21] <Xgates> there is no way to do this>
[03:21] <Xgates> ?
[03:21] <NoelJB> Xgates, realize this: the ubuntu-desktop package has no content (other than a readme)!  It is nothing more than a LIST OF PACKAGES.
[03:22] <Amaranth> Xgates: Because then you aren't running the desktop how we want it to be so ubuntu-desktop doesn't match your system anymore
[03:22] <Xgates> well there must be a way to have this flexibility
[03:22] <Xgates> Ubuntu should look at this
[03:22] <Amaranth> There is: remove ubuntu-desktop
[03:22] <arand> Xgates: it's in fact rather simple to repackage it...
[03:22] <JanC> Xgates: you can compile your own replacements, just learn how apt/dpkg work
[03:22] <Amaranth> Xgates: We aren't going to look at it because you are acting rather foolish.
[03:23] <musikgoat1> Xgates: how about you look at all the packages ubuntu-desktop consists of,  and install all such packages except for alsa-base?
[03:23] <Xgates> I don't mean to allow everything if we want to use this word, just make allowances where they help not hinder
[03:23] <Amaranth> You are asking for an impossible situation
[03:23] <mercutio22> so... its not possible to customize the login screen anylonger?
[03:23] <Amaranth> Xgates: Just uninstall ubuntu-desktop and stop talking about it
[03:23] <Amaranth> Xgates: You don't want to run the desktop the way we have designed it so it doesn't fit you
[03:23] <Xgates> Amaranth: let's not get into flames ok let's try to be adults cause I am one a married man with kids ok TRY to SEE what it is I'm trying to make you see ok for the sake of possibly learning something OK?
[03:23] <Xgates> :)
[03:24] <Amaranth> *headdesk*
[03:24] <Amaranth> *headdesk*
[03:24] <Amaranth> *headdesk*
[03:24] <Xgates> Does Ubuntu want to improve?
[03:24] <Xgates> sure it does...
[03:24] <NoelJB> Xgates, and what (bad) thing would happen if you do what we tell you, and you remove ubuntu-desktop?
[03:24] <Xgates> NoelJB: ok my bad I thought it would break things....
[03:24] <Amaranth> Xgates: This whole discussion started with us telling you it wouldn't
[03:25] <Xgates> ok I'm sorry I missed that...
[03:25] <JanC> ;)
[03:25] <NoelJB> Xgates, no, that's what I keep telling you.  ubuntu-desktop is literally nothing more than a bill of materials (packages) to install by default.
[03:25] <JanC> "better late than never"  ;-)
[03:25] <Xgates> that i got it's a pack list...
[03:26] <NoelJB> yes, so if you remove it, you still have the packages that it installed, and they stay.
[03:26] <mercutio22> a metapackage
[03:26] <webbb82> in karmic beta everytime i open xchat i have to retype in my nick name and what room i want to goto shouldnt it remember or save this info
[03:26] <NoelJB> and if you really want, you can build your own xgates-desktop from ubuntu-desktop, and just remove alsa-base from the list of packages.
[03:26] <NoelJB> webbb82, yes, and it does for me.
[03:26] <gogereaver> webbb82: yes but you gotta add it
[03:27] <gogereaver> webbb82: been a long time sence i sued it
[03:27] <gogereaver> used
[03:27] <Xgates> NoelJB: so at what point would it be ok to remove so that you are staying at the pkg level that Ubuntu suggests? After like installing and doing an update and then you remove it?
[03:27] <webbb82> gogereaver, what app do u  use
[03:27] <gogereaver> webbb82: used to be pidgin but now the new one
[03:28] <gogereaver> webbb82: both support irc
[03:28] <mercutio22> I wanna change the gdm greeter. How do I do it?
[03:28] <NoelJB> Xgates, all of the other packages already installed will be updated whenever they are updated.  the only thing that you would not see would be if ubuntu decides to add new toys to the standard list of packages, but you can always add them yourself.
[03:28] <Amaranth> Xgates: The only time you'll want ubuntu-desktop installed is when upgrading to lucid
[03:29] <JanC> Xgates: after a release, the list of wanted packages won't change
[03:29] <gogereaver> i wonder why they replaceed pidgin
[03:29] <Amaranth> gogereaver: empathy integrates better
[03:29] <Xgates> so you're saying during an update is the only time you want to put it back?
[03:29] <gogereaver> eh
[03:29] <Amaranth> gogereaver: you can use it to play games multiplayer
[03:29] <Amaranth> Xgates: right
[03:29] <gogereaver> eh
[03:29] <Amaranth> gogereaver: banshee can also use it to do music sharing
[03:29] <NoelJB> gogereaver, because of the programming FRAMEWORK in the replacement, and because pidgin didn't have voice chat at the time the decision was made.  At least, as I understand it.
[03:30] <gogereaver> pidgin has always had voice for years
[03:30] <JanC> and update-manager will re-add ubuntu-desktop automaticly during a version upgrade ;)
[03:30] <gogereaver> its a addon
[03:30] <Xgates> Amaranth: ok so for alsa that would want to throw it back in, then you'll have to remove it again after every update correct?
[03:30] <Xgates> oh simply running the update-manager will put it back in automatically?
[03:31] <Xgates> the ubuntu-desktop that is?
[03:31] <NoelJB> gogereaver, maybe it was video.  <<shrug>> The discussions are on the web.
[03:31] <NoelJB> Xgates, apt-get install ubuntu-desktop
[03:31] <NoelJB> Xgates, of course, that would install alsa-base again :-)
[03:31] <gogereaver> oh the project died
[03:31] <gogereaver> http://developer.pidgin.im/wiki/GSoC2008/VoiceAndVideo
[03:31] <Xgates> right that's what I'm saying so everytime you do an update you'll have to remove it
[03:32] <Xgates> ok got it thanks SORRY for the confusion :)
[03:32] <gogereaver> used farsite
[03:32] <Xgates> bbl
[03:32] <Amaranth> Xgates: Yes, update-manager installs ubuntu-desktop before doing a distribution upgrade
[03:32] <NoelJB> Xgates, every 6 months :-)
[03:32] <Xgates> ok
[03:32] <gogereaver> http://developer.pidgin.im/wiki/vv
[03:32] <gogereaver> updated
[03:33] <Forza4Life> where can i get the iso for karmic?
[03:33] <gogereaver> http://www.ubuntu.com/testing/karmic/beta
[03:34] <JanC> gogereaver: the main advantage of empathy is telepathy, which means every application can use the IM connections (including games & office collaboration software)
[03:34] <gogereaver> eh
[03:34] <JanC> and now I'm off to sleep
[03:35] <NoelJB> that would be the programming framework I mentioned earlier.
[03:35] <gogereaver> most people just use skype
[03:35] <gogereaver> well i can always install it i guess
[03:35] <webbb82> the empathy irc chat window sucks compared to the pidgin one  , the empathy window doesnt even say the number of people in the room over the name list
[03:36] <gogereaver> hehe yea
[03:36] <JanC> tell me how you can use skype to edit one document with a group of people?
[03:36] <gogereaver> pidgin real irc windows
[03:36] <gogereaver> that one i can even pass standerd commands
[03:36] <DKcross> Amaranth,  ok, ready but i cant understand the pic
[03:36] <DKcross> can you help me please Amaranth
 I use skype, xchat, and pidgin (for the rest), myself.
[03:36] <webbb82> ya   what is another good one to try ,  does skype have irc
[03:37] <gogereaver> oh using the netmetting framework are they
[03:37] <DKcross> http://www.flickr.com/photos/nuestraspics/3979024266/sizes/o/
[03:37] <NoelJB> JanC, oh, do we finally have a collaborative editor to compete with subetha?  :-)
[03:37] <gogereaver> and gotoextress can do that
[03:37] <Amaranth> DKcross: Like I said, no stalls
[03:37] <Amaranth> DKcross: It's just working on loading all the drivers and other stuff
[03:39] <DKcross> what can do ? . is a kernel bug check Amaranth http://patchwork.kernel.org/patch/32238/
[03:39] <NoelJB> Ah: "Telepathy is used for text chat and other features in Empathy, to provide multiplayer support in various GNOME games, and to enable collaborative editing in the AbiWord word processor."
[03:39] <Amaranth> DKcross: You get xsplash at about 20 seconds, seems to be about average from what I've seen
[03:39] <Amaranth> DKcross: You don't have a bug, you have a slow hard drive
[03:39] <NoelJB> http://www.collabora.co.uk/projects/telepathy/
[03:39] <DKcross> Amaranth,  with jaunty start about 30 secods
[03:39] <gogereaver> just seems like a feature i would never use
[03:39] <DKcross> with karmic about 1:40
[03:39] <Amaranth> DKcross: And X starts in 20 seconds
[03:39] <gogereaver> just as easy to vnc
[03:40] <Amaranth> DKcross: bootchart lies
[03:40] <NoelJB> gogereaver, so install pidgin.
[03:40] <Amaranth> DKcross: Instead of stopping when the boot stops it runs another 45 seconds so it can chart the desktop loading too
[03:40] <gogereaver> i said that lol
[03:40] <Amaranth> DKcross: You just have to look at when it finished loading stuff and see when that was, the time it reports is completely wrong now
[03:41] <Amaranth> DKcross: On my system jaunty booted in 15 seconds and I get X in about 15 seconds
[03:41] <webbb82> hey if i install or update telepathy will that fix empathy
[03:41] <Amaranth> DKcross: Which somewhat matches what you are seeing, X starts about as fast as the system booted before
[03:41] <webbb82> what is telepathy anyhow
[03:41] <gogereaver> he posted a link
[03:41] <Amaranth> webbb82: If telepathy isn't installed empathy isn't either
[03:41] <DKcross> Amaranth,  but i cant understand
[03:42] <webbb82> oh
[03:42] <Amaranth> DKcross: karmic boots slower
[03:42] <gogereaver> kermic does not
[03:42] <Amaranth> DKcross: Unless you do a clean install of it
[03:42] <DKcross> my hard driver isnt slow... because i have other  Distros
[03:42] <gogereaver> yea i did that
[03:42] <gogereaver> 10 seconds flat
[03:42] <DKcross> jaunty an lenny is more fast
[03:42] <gogereaver> hell no
[03:43] <gogereaver> kermic flys
[03:43] <Amaranth> DKcross: There is no bug here, your boot is only 3-5 seconds different from mine
[03:43] <Amaranth> gogereaver: Only if you do a clean install :)
[03:43] <gogereaver> :)
[03:43] <Amaranth> gogereaver: 7200rpm HD?
[03:43] <gogereaver> ssd
[03:43] <DKcross> i have a clean install too
[03:43] <gogereaver> a slow ssd
[03:43] <Amaranth> DKcross: Clean install as of the beta release?
[03:43] <gogereaver> and i still get a fast boot
[03:43] <DKcross> yes
[03:43] <Amaranth> gogereaver: jcastro gets a 4 second boot
[03:43] <Amaranth> I'm going to steal his laptop
[03:43] <gogereaver> nice
[03:43] <iflema> also depending on the programs u install it can slow.... a clean load fucking flys
[03:43] <DKcross> i am in karmic from alpha 4
[03:44] <Amaranth> !ohmy | iflema
[03:44] <gogereaver> i get 10 seconds on a slow ssd
[03:44] <DKcross> but i was installing even
[03:44] <webbb82> what will the files Telepathy Development packages  do
[03:44] <Amaranth> DKcross: If you've been upgrading since alpha 4 that is why your boot is slower
[03:44] <DKcross> nos..
[03:44] <DKcross> Amaranth,  please, understand me
[03:44] <gogereaver> sence i dont count the time to take my bios to start
[03:44] <gogereaver> i count from grub
[03:44] <DKcross> i was clean installing in alpha 4, alpha 5, alpha 6.beta
[03:45] <DKcross> even change
[03:45] <Amaranth> DKcross: In that case I don't know what to tell you
[03:45] <Amaranth> DKcross: There is no spot in there were your boot stalls, it just takes a long time
[03:45] <gogereaver> if you got a slow hdd that might be slowing things down
[03:46] <iflema> !sorry
[03:46] <Amaranth> DKcross: "Before my patch, we silently didn't allocate the BARs.  Now we print a message."
[03:46] <iflema> lol
[03:46] <Amaranth> DKcross: So this "problem" was always there, it just didn't give a message before
[03:46] <iflema> sorry all.... but im not really
[03:46] <gogereaver> have you seen the test animated boot splash people are working on
[03:46] <iflema> lol
[03:47] <gogereaver> custom themes for 9.10 are gonna be crazy
[03:48] <gogereaver> dint fell to bad 9.04 took forever to boot off my ssd
[03:49] <gogereaver> only in the beta did they fix that
[03:51] <webbb821> ok one last question but this one is buggin me  i filled out a bug report about empathy a few weeks ago and i keep getting thes emails with all the info from my bug report from differant people but every email is the same
[03:52] <DanaG> www.csc.calpoly.edu/~dgoyette/bootcharts/
[03:52] <DKcross> Amaranth,  well thanks for your help
[03:52] <DanaG> there's all my bootcharts; it takes rather too long for my liking.
[03:52] <Amaranth> DanaG: Some painful disk thrashing there
[03:52] <DanaG> Yeah.  I'm not sure why.
[03:53] <Amaranth> (the green line is always on the bottom)
[03:53] <Amaranth> Terribly seek times and little on disk cache?
[03:53] <DanaG> The drive itself is pretty fast -- linear reads are about 70-80 megabytes per second.
[03:53] <webbb821> i need to inastaLL telepathy-butterfly 0.5.1 in order to fix empathy where can i get 0.5.1
[03:53] <DanaG> ST9250421AS
[03:54] <DanaG> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148364
[03:54] <gogereaver> wow thats it
[03:54] <DanaG> interesting... I may wanna' stick my old Hitachi 7K200-200 back in the thing.
[03:54] <Amaranth> hmm, my last bootchart is from the 30th
[03:54] <gogereaver> even my slow ssd can do 500mb easy
[03:54] <Amaranth> DanaG: seek time is 4.17ms
[03:54] <gogereaver> ok maybe 250mb
[03:54] <Amaranth> Should be pretty good
[03:55] <gogereaver> if its thrasiing that normaly means a memery issue
[03:55] <Amaranth> gogereaver: Not on boot
[03:55] <gogereaver> being its using x at boot now maybe
[03:56] <Amaranth> On boot it's thrashing because it's trying to load about 2GB of stuff from what appears to be a fragmented disk
[03:56] <Amaranth> 205 updates!
[03:56] <gogereaver>  is that posable
[03:56] <Amaranth> oh, they flushed the queue
[03:56] <DanaG> hmm, would re-customizing a fresh install give me a fast boot again?
[03:56] <gogereaver> i thought linux did a good job of not fragmenting
[03:56] <Amaranth> gogereaver: Only if you keep the disk less than 80% full
[03:57] <Amaranth> get over 80% and it starts fragmenting pretty bad
[03:57] <Amaranth> get over 90% and it's over
[03:57] <gogereaver> oh
[03:57] <DanaG> ah, mine's been to 99% full before; now it's better.
[03:57] <DanaG> Perhaps that's why.
[03:57] <Amaranth> DanaG: Massive fragmentation
[03:57] <DanaG> Root is currently 89% full.
[03:57] <DanaG> And home is 96% full.
[03:57] <Amaranth> DanaG: _Massive_ fragmentation
[03:57] <gogereaver> there you have it
[03:57] <DanaG> ah.
[03:58] <gogereaver> that means spaw is at the sloest point
[03:58] <Amaranth> Think FAT32 after 6 months of heavy use fragmented
[03:58] <gogereaver> swap
[03:58] <Amaranth> No, swap is a separate partition
[03:58] <gogereaver> yea but if he made it on a near full disk
[03:58] <gogereaver> its gonna be at the end
[03:58] <DanaG> hmm, I may want to offload the partition (that is, copy it elsewhere), and then wipe and restore.
[03:58] <DanaG> I do have backups.
[03:58] <Amaranth> What that actually means is every sector you need to read to load a file is a seek
[03:59] <Amaranth> DanaG: If you copy it all somewhere else you can "defrag" but copying it back
[03:59] <Amaranth> s/but/by/
[03:59] <Amaranth> wipe the disk first, of course
[03:59] <DanaG> yeah.  And make the partitions bigger.  I'll have to lose my directly-bootable Jaunty partition, though -- will offload it elsewhere.
[04:00] <Amaranth> eh, who needs jaunty?
[04:00] <gogereaver> or put in your other hdd
[04:00] <DKcross> Amaranth,  is a bug? see http://patchwork.kernel.org/patch/32238/
[04:00] <gogereaver> use it
[04:00] <Amaranth> DKcross: It's a bug that has been there for some time
[04:00] <Amaranth> DKcross: It was only noticed because it prints a message now
[04:00] <DKcross> i was this problem with jaunty, when i compile my  kernel xx.31
[04:01] <Amaranth> DKcross: Yes
[04:01] <webbb821> i  need to install telepathy-butterfly from the terminal whats the command fdor that
[04:01] <Amaranth> DKcross: But the problem exists in the jaunty kernel too, it just doesn't print a message for it
[04:01] <DKcross> Amaranth, ok, but what is the problem with my usplash?
[04:01] <DKcross> i thinks is about this
[04:01] <Amaranth> DKcross: usplash has been disabled
[04:01] <Amaranth> No one gets usplash anymore
[04:01] <webbb821> i already have the deb file but  getdeb isnt working so i need to istall the deb threw the terminal
[04:02] <gogereaver> yea they use x as there splash screen now
[04:02] <DKcross> mm mmm nop.. today install karmic in more five computers
[04:02] <gogereaver> and i aruldy forgot what they call it
[04:02] <DKcross> first start usplash, next xsplash
[04:02] <DKcross> next gdm
[04:02] <DKcross> next xsplash
[04:02] <Amaranth> DKcross: You only see usplash if you have an encrypted partition or it needs to do a fsck on the disk
[04:03] <Amaranth> If you see it any other time that is a bug, you should not be seeing usplash any more
[04:03] <gogereaver> hehe xsplash is alot more powerfull
[04:03] <gogereaver> have 3d right off the start
[04:03] <gogereaver> gonna be some fancy custom ones
[04:04] <Amaranth> What I find amusing is that when someone brought up the idea of an X-based splash before they were told "if X is started I'm showing a login screen"
[04:04] <Amaranth> gah
[04:05] <Amaranth> libwebkit-1.0-2-dbg is 117MB :/
[04:05] <gogereaver> lol who said x would = login screen
[04:05] <gogereaver> guess they never herd of xinit
[04:05] <Amaranth> gogereaver: The guy that wrote usplash
[04:05] <Amaranth> err, upstart
[04:05] <gogereaver> or level  run mode
[04:05] <Amaranth> The guy who wrote upstart
[04:06] <gogereaver> level 5
[04:06] <Amaranth> gogereaver: No no, he meant in the Ubuntu boot process
[04:06] <gogereaver> i knoe
[04:06] <Amaranth> If we're far enough along in the boot to start X he wanted it to be showing gdm
[04:06] <Amaranth> And it does but gdm now takes so long to start it needs a splash screen
[04:06] <Amaranth> That's the real reason for xsplash
[04:06] <gogereaver> well they just streamlined it
[04:06] <gogereaver> it still does
[04:07] <Amaranth> If gdm still started faster we'd just show gdm
[04:07] <Amaranth> but gdm is now a full gnome session
[04:07] <Amaranth> gnome-session, gnome-panel, metacity, etc
[04:07] <gogereaver> no idea why he thought that
[04:07] <DKcross> any here is testing karmic with Acer Aspire One?
[04:08] <Amaranth> gogereaver: Because he knows what he is talking about?
[04:08] <gogereaver> xinit it then start gdm
[04:08] <gogereaver> probly what they du
[04:08] <Amaranth> *facepalm*
[04:08] <gogereaver> do
[04:08] <Amaranth> No
[04:08] <Amaranth> gdm is a gnome session now
[04:08] <Amaranth> xsplash is started by gnome-session when gdm starts loading
[04:08] <gogereaver> well whatever order
[04:09] <Amaranth> gogereaver: Just stop
[04:09] <gogereaver> so xsplash is a prelaoder
[04:09] <gogereaver> makes sence
[04:09] <Amaranth> I don't want to explain the entire boot process or argue with someone else
[04:09] <Amaranth> If that's what you think then fine
[04:10] <Amaranth> When a momma grub2 and a daddy initramfs love each other very much... the system boots
[04:10] <DanaG> hmm, if gdm used compiz, would the real compiz then load faster?
[04:10] <Amaranth> DanaG: Sure, but gdm would load slower
[04:10] <Amaranth> gdm would be the one to pull the compiz xml files into the disk cache
[04:11] <DanaG> ah, and it would affect all users, not just those with compiz enabled.
[04:11] <Amaranth> DanaG: The gdm gnome session isn't reused for the user, it quits and a new gnome-session is started for the user
[04:12] <Amaranth> So gnome-panel and etc all have to load again
[04:12] <Amaranth> They load a little faster because they're in the disk cache though
[04:12] <webbb821> is there anyway to get ctrl alt backspace to work in karmic
[04:12] <gogereaver> sounds ineffencent
[04:13] <gogereaver> load it all one time
[04:13] <Amaranth> gogereaver: That's why we're probably scrapping it for lucid
[04:13] <Amaranth> Dunno exactly what the plans there are but it apparently involved a very customized gdm
[04:13] <DanaG> how can I tell my fragmentation?  the fibmap.pl doesn't stop at filesystem boundaries.
[04:13] <gogereaver> heh ununtu 10
[04:13] <DanaG> karmic-root: clean, 385459/786864 files, 2680431/3146724 blocks (check after next mount)
[04:13] <Amaranth> gogereaver: You can't load it all only once, the gdm versions are running as the gdm user
[04:14] <Amaranth> DanaG: If your partitions are that full the fragmentation is "omg kill me"
[04:14] <gogereaver> wouldent it just be a matter or switching out users
[04:15] <gogereaver> rather then a reload
[04:15] <Amaranth> You can't do that
[04:15] <gogereaver> yet
[04:15] <DanaG> Hmm, if once I remake the partitions, I do just cp -a, then will it defrag the stuff?
[04:16] <Amaranth> gogereaver: Sure lets rewrite the way the way the system works entirely to get something less secure just to save a couple seconds
[04:16] <gogereaver> lol
[04:16] <gogereaver> you jusy said lucid
[04:16] <Amaranth> But it wouldn't actually save anything since users have their own configuration
[04:16] <gogereaver> would be more effcent
[04:16] <Amaranth> gogereaver: Except in this case system means kernel
[04:17] <Amaranth> DanaG: Yeah, when you cp them back over it'll write them in order
[04:17] <Amaranth> DanaG: Using extents too :)
[04:17] <DanaG> hmm, on the backup drive itself, is there any use converting ext3 to ext4?
[04:17] <gogereaver> k going to sleep enjoy
[04:18] <Amaranth> DanaG: Probably not
[04:21] <bullgard4> "As part of our boot performance work, we have now transitioned to Upstart. If you are testing on your primary machine, we strongly suggest having an Ubuntu 9.10 LiveCD available, or creating an Alpha 5 USB startup disk before doing an upgrade." <- What is a USB startup disk?
[04:21] <DanaG> ugh, copying ntfs-3g to ntfs-3g is going dog-slow.
[04:21] <DanaG> 3 megabytes per second.
[04:21] <DanaG> And it's bogging down the rest of the system.
[04:21] <arand> bullgard4: from th system admin menu...
[04:22] <bullgard4> arand: I do not understand your answer. Can you elaborate.
[04:22] <arand> bullgard4: or just run usb-creator... it's just a livecd... on a shtick
[04:23] <Amaranth> d?????????  ? ?    ?        ?                ? .gvfs
[04:23] <Amaranth> This...seems broken
[04:23] <Amaranth> /var/log/gdm/.gvfs is so locked down root can't even see it
[04:23] <arand> bullgard4: system menu, administration, usb startup disk creator
[04:24] <DanaG> that's not locked-down; that's just broken.
[04:24] <DanaG> transport endpoint disconnected, or something.
[04:24] <Amaranth> $ sudo chown root:root /var/lib/gdm/.gvfs
[04:24] <Amaranth> chown: cannot access `/var/lib/gdm/.gvfs': Permission denied
[04:24] <arand> Amaranth: currupted file, fsck-time?
[04:24] <Amaranth> Or apparmor
[04:24] <DanaG> check "mount".
[04:24] <Amaranth> gvfs-fuse-daemon on /var/lib/gdm/.gvfs type fuse.gvfs-fuse-daemon (rw,nosuid,nodev,user=gdm)
[04:24] <bullgard4> arand: Ah. Now I got what you mean. - Thank you.
[04:25] <DanaG> 2.8 megabytes per second -- ntfs-3g fail.
[04:25]  * Amaranth knows what to do
[04:25] <Amaranth> $ sudo -u gdm chown root:root /var/lib/gdm/.gvfs
[04:25] <Amaranth> chown: changing ownership of `/var/lib/gdm/.gvfs': Function not implemented
[04:25]  * Amaranth giggles
[04:25] <DanaG> It seriously takes less time to reboot to windows, copy the files, and then reboot back to Linux, than it does to copy in Linux.
[04:26] <DanaG> That is, for big files.
[04:26] <Amaranth> DanaG: It's faster in OS X, I think
[04:26] <Amaranth> and it's using MacFUSE and ntfs-3g
[04:27] <Amaranth> Wow, I can't change the permissions on this directory at all
[04:27] <Amaranth> Even with sudo -u gdm
[04:27] <Amaranth> It just silently fails
[04:28] <XiXaQ> have anyone tried xdmcp in karmic yet?
[04:29] <Chazz> So, I'm guessing there's no support for Karmic?
[04:30] <mattwj2002> hi everyone
[04:30] <mattwj2002> :D
[04:30] <mattwj2002> I can't wait until the new version of Ubuntu comes out
[04:30] <WIGGMPk> Chazz what exactly do you mean no support?
[04:30]  * mattwj2002 dances
[04:30] <darthanubis> !hi | mattwj2002
[04:31] <Chazz> as in, no 'crap i broke something' support
[04:31] <WIGGMPk> Chazz would you expect it? its not a stable release
[04:31] <arand> Chazz: We're all volounteers..
[04:32] <DanaG> 2 megabytes per second!  woot.
[04:32] <DanaG> woot as in fail.
[04:32] <DKcross> i cant see the usplash whe ubuntu is booting
[04:32] <DKcross> only see  process
[04:33] <durt> Chazz, this is the channel to ask about KK
[04:33] <Chazz> durt, ya.
[04:33] <mattwj2002> I am going to try 9.10 in vmware
[04:33] <mattwj2002> :)
[04:33] <mattwj2002> 9.10 beta I mean :)
[04:33] <arand> DKcross: yea, i haven't had usplash on boot for ages, works on shutdown though...
[04:34] <DKcross> arand,  but in other computers
[04:34] <DKcross> first start usplash like this
[04:34] <bjsnider> usplash has been deprecated in favour of xsplash
[04:35] <DKcross> arand, http://news.softpedia.com/images/extra/LINUX/large/ubuntu910usplash-large_010.jpg
[04:35] <mattwj2002> bjsnider what is the different between usplash and xsplash?
[04:35] <DanaG> ugh, it's been saying "8 minutes left" for 8 minutes or so.
[04:35] <DKcross> yes bjsnider  but. both are working in other computers
[04:35] <DKcross> mattwj2002,  xsplash works with X
[04:35] <bjsnider> xsplash is actually starting the x server before starting your session, during boot
[04:36] <mattwj2002> oh okay
[04:36] <mattwj2002> :)
[04:36] <NoelJB> coincidentally, I'm currently defragging two xfs volumes.  ext4 is NOT in my future until bug 321528 is marked Fix Released.
[04:36] <Amaranth> DKcross: You're not supposed to see usplash
[04:36] <Amaranth> DKcross: Come on, I've told you this
[04:36] <DanaG> 01 3456789AaBbCcDdEeFfGgHhIiJjKkLlMmNnOoPpQqRrSsTtUuVvWwXxYyZz
[04:36] <DanaG> argh, slashexec loses stuff.
[04:36] <Amaranth> DKcross: When you don't believe the developers you should probably find a different distro
[04:36] <DanaG> Linux EliteBook  .6.31-11-generic #38-Ubuntu SMP Fri Oct   11:06:40 UTC  009 x86_64 GNU/Linux
[04:36] <bjsnider> NoelJB, i'd go with ext4 over xfs. defragmentation is irrelevant
[04:37] <WIGGMPk> Amarath thats not really necessary
[04:37] <arand> Amaranth: so the white ubuntu logo is only supposed to be present on shutdown (that's not usplash then?)
[04:37] <DanaG> Not when your partition is as massively fragmented as mine is.
[04:37] <WIGGMPk> Amaranth: thats not really necessary
[04:37] <bjsnider> ext4 doesn't fragment
[04:37] <DanaG> try my bootcharts...
[04:37] <bjsnider> it preallocates
[04:37] <Amaranth> arand: Right, it should be visible on shutdown (and yes, that's usplash)
[04:37] <DKcross> Amaranth,  do you have any distro?
[04:37] <DanaG> www.csc.calpoly.edu/~dgoyette/bootcharts
[04:37] <DanaG> yes, it's been up to 90% full, and higher.
[04:37] <DKcross> if you are developer ok, but what is you power?
[04:38] <NoelJB> bjsnider, my performance figures beg to differ with you (at least on xfs and defrag).  And keep in mind that my avg file size for the files I care about is > 10GB.
[04:38] <Amaranth> bjsnider: All filesystems fragment
[04:38] <DKcross> respect please.. i have any problems in my computer with karmic i'm not lier
[04:38] <bjsnider> yeah, but that's not what i mean
[04:38] <DanaG> ata5: exception Emask 0x10 SAct 0x0 SErr 0x4000000 action 0xe frozen
[04:38] <Amaranth> DKcross: But you're not listening to me either
[04:38] <Amaranth> DKcross: Do you want me to find you the changelog entry?
[04:39] <bjsnider> NoelJB, have you ever tried to delete a file that big on an xfs drive?
[04:39] <DKcross> Amaranth,  nop
[04:39] <DKcross> but, i haver other five HP desktop computer
[04:39] <DKcross> and today installed karmic
[04:39] <NoelJB> bjsnider, of course.  did several of them today.
[04:39] <DKcross> and in this case
[04:40] <bjsnider> NoelJB, it took forever and chewed up a bunch of cpu power
[04:40] <DKcross> they are booting firts with usplash, next, xsplash, next gdm, and next xsplash
[04:40] <NoelJB> bjsnider, not here.  would be interesting to know why our experiences differ.
[04:40] <DKcross> first screen is <Amaranth> DKcross: When you don't believe the developers you should probably find a different distro
[04:40] <DKcross> ups
[04:40] <DKcross> Amaranth,  first http://news.softpedia.com/images/extra/LINUX/large/ubuntu910usplash-large_010.jpg
[04:40] <NoelJB> bjsnider, I do most of my work in VMware.  I have many very large vmdk files, and performance for that sort of file is the most important.
[04:41] <bjsnider> xfs has known problems with deleting large files
[04:41] <DanaG> I get text-mode, xsplash, gdm, xsplash, gdmwall, mywall
[04:41] <Amaranth> DKcross: http://pastie.org/640987
[04:41] <DanaG> so yeah, it goes back to gdm wallpaper for a moment before showing my wallpaper.
[04:41] <Amaranth> DKcross: That's a screenshot from shutdown
[04:42] <bjsnider> DanaG, that's exactly what i get here
[04:42] <DKcross> Amaranth, please, respect to me, i only have problems, I'm not dummie ok?
[04:42] <Amaranth> DKcross: Your problem is not the fact that usplash doesn't start. This is what I'm trying to tell you.
[04:43] <DKcross> I'm not here lying
[04:43] <bjsnider> DanaG, how fast does your boot happen from text mode to the finished desktop?
[04:44] <DanaG> Mine takes a long time.. check my bootcharts.
[04:44] <DanaG> Count "nautilus running" as usable desktop.
[04:44] <bjsnider> yeah, that's fine
[04:45] <Amaranth> DKcross: You're here saying something is broken that isn't supposed to work.
[04:45] <WRdHat_> aqui
[04:45] <WRdHat_> q ondas aki stoy
[04:45] <DKcross> are two things diferents
[04:45] <bjsnider> Amaranth, maybe he means xsplash
[04:45] <DKcross> WRdHat_,  english
[04:46] <WRdHat_> sorry
[04:47] <DKcross> Amaranth,  ok, this my friend  WRdHat_  , in his computer works like... first usplash, second xsplash, login screen and other time xsplash
[04:47] <WIGGMPk> I know this is for support.. but anyone have a take on upgrading to beta now?
[04:47] <DKcross> i'm not lying here..
[04:47] <Amaranth> DKcross: But you aren't listening either
[04:47] <Amaranth> DKcross: It is his system that is malfunctioning, not yours
[04:48] <DKcross> Amaranth, first a black screen...with ubuntu logo rigth?
[04:48] <Amaranth> no
[04:48] <NoelJB> DKcross, for those of us who haven't been following your problem(s), can you summarize?
[04:48] <Amaranth> It should be a black screen, some text, then the logo with the progress bar
[04:48] <Amaranth> NoelJB: He thinks a line printed by the kernel is slowing his system down and that his system is broken because usplash isn't starting
[04:49] <DKcross> Amaranth, ok, but are two things diferents!
[04:49] <Amaranth> NoelJB: But the warning printed by the kernel is for a problem that existed in jaunty too, the kernel just didn't warn about it
[04:49] <WRdHat_> 	 I get my first black screen
[04:49] <Amaranth> NoelJB: And since we're trying to get rid of all that text other things happen but don't say anything so it looks like it stalled on that line
[04:50] <WRdHat_> then the second load screen where the bar
[04:50] <NoelJB> Amaranth, ah.  I don't have splash on my boot.  just quiet.  I like seeing the messages scroll by and see what is happening.
[04:50] <Amaranth> WRdHat_: Does the black screen have a white ubuntu logo on it?
[04:50] <DKcross> NoelJB, well are two problems .. first "bar 06"
[04:50] <NoelJB> and the code hasn't been working to show me the messages on the splash display.
[04:50] <WRdHat_> yes
[04:51] <Amaranth> WRdHat_: You have cryptsetup installed
[04:51] <Amaranth> Problem solved
[04:51] <Amaranth> DKcross: Install cryptsetup, it'll fix all your problems
[04:51] <DKcross> Amaranth, ?
[04:51] <WRdHat_> the first screen is the black
[04:51] <Amaranth> cryptsetup installs the trigger that makes usplash come up on boot even if you don't use it for encrypted partitions
[04:52] <WRdHat_> i should install cryptsetup??
[04:52] <DKcross> but, i cant belive then.. if i say no?
[04:52] <NoelJB> Amaranth, is that being installed by default now?  I see that on a VM to which I had done a fresh install.
[04:52] <Amaranth> NoelJB: I don't think so
[04:52] <Amaranth> Maybe they fixed cryptsetup to not do that anymore :)
[04:52] <bjsnider> if it's automatic why doesn't the other guy have it
[04:52] <DKcross> Amaranth,  good idea, but i think this not solution
[04:52] <Amaranth> DKcross: It'll give you usplash
[04:53] <Amaranth> DKcross: But the bar 6 thing is NOTABUG
[04:53] <DKcross> is  not import for me
[04:53] <Amaranth> jaunty had the same "problem" it just didn't tell you about it
[04:53] <DKcross> the usplash
[04:53] <DKcross> but is a problem
[04:53] <DKcross> i think is good report this bug
[04:53] <Amaranth> Your boot being slower than jaunty is unfortunate but so is mine so no sympathy from me
[04:53] <WRdHat_> the usplash is the problem??
[04:53] <DKcross> or if you think or you say, this no bug ok
[04:53] <arand> Amaranth: usplash has simply been deemed redundant in the boot speed race? There will be a period of black screen instead until xsplash fires up?
[04:54] <Amaranth> arand: Right, we're trying to get xsplash to start ASAP
[04:54] <Amaranth> arand: Ideally almost instantly on a SSD and after a couple seconds on HDD
[04:54] <gsevil> after update to 9.10, my screen resolution is only 1024x768, someone help me pls
[04:54] <NoelJB> Amaranth, I thought that starting xsplash early required kvm
[04:55] <Amaranth> KMS
[04:55] <bjsnider> gsevil, which graphics card?
[04:55] <NoelJB> yes, thanks.  :-)
[04:55] <Amaranth> And yes, KMS does help shave a couple seconds off because X doesn't have to set the mode
[04:55] <gsevil> bjsnider: ati 200m
[04:55] <arand> Amaranth: ok, I always assumed that the
[04:55] <NoelJB> Amaranth, any idea if/when KMS will be nvidia supported?
[04:55] <bjsnider> kms is a different driver. xsplash uses the actual graphics driver
[04:55] <Amaranth> Right now the kernel is setting a silly mode then X is setting the right one which wastes time
[04:55] <gsevil> bjsnider: ati express 1100
[04:55] <Amaranth> NoelJB: Never, they'd have to open source their driver to add support for it
[04:55] <bjsnider> NoelJB, not unless nouveau creates a kms driver
[04:56] <bjsnider> wait, they did
[04:56] <NoelJB> bjsnider, I have little expectation for nouveau.
[04:56] <bjsnider> use the nouveau driver and you'll have kms
[04:56] <gsevil> bjsnider: here is my xorg log http://paste.ubuntu.com/285135/
[04:56] <bjsnider> nouveau is in decent shape
[04:56] <NoelJB> I'd rather that my system worked properly than shave a few seconds off a boot.
[04:56] <arand> Amaranth: ok, I've read quite a bit about it, but still hadn't understood that the white logo was meant just for shutdown :)
[04:57] <NoelJB> bjsnider, too bad we can't use nouveau at boot, and switch to the real driver.
[04:57] <bjsnider> gsevil, Radeon Xpress 200M
[04:58] <bjsnider> NoelJB, someday nouveau will be the preferred nvidia driver
[04:59] <NoelJB> bjsnider, before the Rio Olympics?
[04:59] <Amaranth> NoelJB: I'm thinking Ubuntu 10.10 :)
[04:59] <gsevil> bjsnider: yes, it is, and in xorg log, there is no VESA mode for 1280x800, what's the problem
[04:59] <NoelJB> z\
[04:59] <NoelJB> a
[04:59] <NoelJB> z
 fat fingers
[05:00] <bjsnider> gsevil, it looks like you're using the vesa driver. try switching to the radeon driver
[05:00] <bjsnider> NoelJB, yes, i'd say before then
[05:00] <NoelJB> Amaranth, so a year from now.  and do you expect it to be better than the real driver by then, or just acceptable?
[05:01] <bjsnider> everything falls into place when they get the gallium work done
[05:01] <DanaG> Right now, on old hardware at least, nouveau is better than nvidia... by "old hardware" I mean gf4mx.
[05:01] <Amaranth> NoelJB: I'm pretty sure it'll blow the nvidia driver away for 2D (just like the ati driver does vs fglrx)
[05:01] <DanaG> nvidia binary: *segfault* *segfault* *segfault* *segfault* *segfault*
[05:01] <gsevil> bjsnider: is radeon driver open source too, 'cause since 9.04 ati did't support my graphic card anymore
[05:01] <Amaranth> NoelJB: I doubt 3D will ever get past 80% of the performance of the nvidia driver
[05:01] <bjsnider> actually nouveau is already very good on everything except 3d
[05:01] <DanaG> And suspend-to-RAM.
[05:01] <WRdHat_> ???
[05:01] <bjsnider> ok, you sghould never do that
[05:01] <Amaranth> bjsnider: Yeah, it already blows the nvidia driver away for 2D :)
[05:02] <NoelJB> Without suspend-to-RAM it is a non-starter for mem.
[05:02] <NoelJB> s/mem/me/
[05:02] <WRdHat_> exactly
[05:02] <Amaranth> NoelJB: Well mjg59 is supposed to be working on that...
[05:02] <Amaranth> NoelJB: And KMS helps
[05:02] <bjsnider> unless i had ECC ram, i wouldn't suspend to it
[05:02] <NoelJB> Well, I have a lot of respect for Matt :-)
[05:03] <bjsnider> NoelJB, try the fedora live nouveau testing image that was released a few weeks ago. it's cool
[05:03] <NoelJB> Amaranth, but since compiz leverages 3D, doesn't that make nouveau less than ideal for compiz?
[05:04] <DanaG> hmm, last time I tried compiz on a self-built nouveau on the 4MX... it actually worked..... until a new window opened, and it crashed.
[05:04] <Amaranth> NoelJB: Yeah but compiz also doesn't need much performance
[05:04] <DanaG> But in the absence of new windows, it worked.
[05:04] <NoelJB> DanaG, yes, but we're talking a year or two from now.
[05:04] <Amaranth> See, they're getting close :)
[05:04] <DanaG> No pixel shaders, though -- that's nvidia's pathetic-ness.
[05:04] <DanaG> Because apparently 1+1=4.  MX.
[05:04] <DanaG> (that is, the 4 MX is really a 2.)
[05:04] <bjsnider> gallium will fix the 3d problems eventually
[05:04] <durt> hey folks, any one else lose uhf on a philips saa713x tuner card with recent updates?
[05:05] <NoelJB> By the time 2011 rolls around, who knows what I'll have for a GPU.  :-)
[05:05]  * DanaG plans to stick with ATI.
[05:05] <DanaG> At least fglrx lets you use xrandr.
[05:05] <DKcross> NoelJB,  i have this problem, i know this a past problem, but you know what is a really problem ? http://patchwork.kernel.org/patch/32238/
[05:06] <DanaG> I plug in an HDMI display, it automatically, instantly switches to clone mode at the right resolution for the thing.
[05:06] <DKcross> before start karmic shows like 20 seconds or more,
[05:06] <NoelJB> DKcross, isn't that the one that everyone's been saying is meaningless?  I see several of those at boot time.  Doesn't appear to affect performance.
[05:06] <DKcross> next karmic boot, for 5 - 9 seconds
[05:07] <NoelJB> actually, no.  I see something similar.
[05:07] <Amaranth> DanaG: Heck not even intel is going that for me
[05:07] <DanaG> mmm, a new low for ntfs-3g: 655 kilobytes per second.
[05:08] <DanaG> SATA should never, ever be that slow.
[05:08] <Amaranth> DanaG: I have to open up gnome-display-properties then it automatically extends my desktop
[05:08] <NoelJB> the new message that I see since the upstart changes is that /dev/null is missing.  seems that something is trying to use it before it exists.
[05:08] <DanaG> hmm, check in gconf... there are some plugins not enabled by default.
[05:08] <bjsnider> DanaG, it doesn't dot hat in windows, switch to clone mode automatically like that
[05:08] <Amaranth> DanaG: iirc gnome-settings-daemon also sets up a hotkey for this
[05:08] <DanaG> apps/gnome-settings-daemon/
[05:08] <DanaG> hmm, Vista does that for me, even on nvidia.  Or rather, switches to clone, and then asks you what you want.
[05:09] <NoelJB> DanaG, huh?  I can use xrandr.  What can't?
[05:09] <bjsnider> the second you plug it in?
[05:09] <gsevil> bjsnider: thanks, i use radeon driver and it's work well
[05:09] <DanaG> Or about 1-2 seconds later.
[05:09] <bjsnider> NoelJB, you cannot rotate the screen
[05:09] <DanaG> Close enough to be subjectively not slow.
[05:09] <bjsnider> they haven't added xrandr 1.2 support yet
[05:09] <NoelJB> bjsnider, oh, ok.  I sometimes use it for resolution change.
[05:09] <Amaranth> DanaG: Every plugin is enabled for me except xrdb (which you really don't want)
[05:09] <DanaG> what's xrdb?
[05:10] <Amaranth> DanaG: It reads your GTK+ theme settings and generates some config plain old xlib apps use to set their colors
[05:10] <Amaranth> DanaG: But to do so it uses cpp (C preprocessor) which is a bit... slow
[05:11] <DanaG> oh yeah, by the way, I'm on fglrx.
[05:11] <Amaranth> DanaG: So unless you plan on using xcdroast any time soon you don't need it :)
[05:11] <DanaG> or xterm (Xilinx tools won't use gnome-terminal), since non-dpi-scaled text is tiny.
[05:11] <DanaG> But I just edited the .Xresource file myself.
[05:11] <bjsnider> NoelJB, nvidia is mainly concerned with their workstation customers, and what the needs of those people are. so you'll find the drivers work particularly well for those types of workloads and tasks
[05:12] <Moc> switch to empathy seem a bad idea so far, too many issues with it
[05:12] <bjsnider> it's never possible to satisfy a linux enthusiast
[05:12] <Amaranth> Yeah, nvidia is wicked fast and stable for 3D modeling and CUDA
[05:12] <Moc> also, vlc playback doesn't disable screen saver
[05:12] <Amaranth> But they do the least work possible for desktop use cases
[05:12] <NoelJB> Moc, so install pidgin  :-)
[05:12] <bjsnider> Amaranth, see last message for why
[05:13] <Amaranth> bjsnider: I know why, was just explaining the different use cases a bit more
[05:13] <Moc> NoelJB: Too much trouble, it already with 9.04 ;)
[05:13] <Moc> with more user, empathy might be on for 10.04
[05:13] <NoelJB> Moc, so if you don't want pidgin, why knock empathy?
[05:14] <Moc> NoelJB: because Im having issues with empathy rightnow, Im not against it, just say it not ready
[05:15] <arand> Moc: I'm guessing you wouldn't want to put in new an relatively untested apps in an LTS hmm?
[05:15] <Moc> and I got a gdb process hang now after empthy crashed
[05:15] <Moc> 9.10 is not LTS I hope ?
[05:15] <NoelJB> no, 10.04 is LTS
[05:15] <bjsnider> it isn't
[05:16] <Moc> ha k fiouf
[05:16] <arand> Moc: nope, but 10.04 is supposed to be..
[05:16] <Moc> by 10.04 those issues might be fixed
[05:16] <mattwj2002> I can't wait until Gnome 3.0
[05:16] <mattwj2002> :D
[05:16] <arand> hence it's probably better to stick in empathy now rtather than later...
[05:17] <Moc> yep, but it why I'll stick to 9.04 for the moment.  I use ubuntu 17h/24h
[05:17] <arand> I have a vague fear that gnome3 will be my que to find another DE, for a couple of release cycles...
[05:18] <NoelJB> Moc, good luck.  jaunty has never worked for me.  kernel traps all too often.  karmic has been stabler from the first alpha than jaunty.  I keep testing to see if it ever gets fixed, but nope.
[05:19] <Moc> 9.04 been stable since... april ;)
[05:19] <mattwj2002> ubuntu 9.04 has been kind of buggy for me
[05:19] <mattwj2002> I am upgrading to it right now
[05:19] <NoelJB> mattwj2002, why, since karmic is almost ready for release?
[05:19] <Amaranth> mattwj2002: 3.0 won't be in 10.04 and the only new part is gnome-shell
[05:19] <arand> Yea, solid, although 9.04 has started to kernel panic form me on shurdown, for some reason or other
[05:20] <Moc> Maybe Im just used to the issues and learn to live with it
[05:20] <Amaranth> mattwj2002: But you can't use compiz with gnome-shell...
[05:20] <chris_> what is the easiest way to update 9.04 to 9.1
[05:20] <mattwj2002> I am upgrading to 9.04 because I want to try the newest pidgin
[05:20] <mattwj2002> it has voice and video function
[05:20] <Moc> I do have kernel panic when someone get near my computer with an evil Apple USB product... but except that it fine
[05:20] <mattwj2002> :)
[05:20] <NoelJB> arand, I wonder if you have one of the newer issues I saw.  I have to turn my WIFI radio off (kill switch) and then shutdown jaunty.  If I do that, it prevents that particular kernel trap.
[05:21] <Amaranth> Moc: Sorry, I guess I should remove the code that checks the Vendor ID and panics if it finds apple
[05:21]  * DanaG will NEVAIRE give up compiz.
[05:21]  * NoelJB LOL @ Amaranth
[05:21] <Amaranth> DanaG: Right on
[05:21]  * Amaranth hugs DanaG
[05:21] <mattwj2002> hehe
[05:22] <Moc> Amaranth: I actually dont mind... maybe just replace with a 10second fake kernel panic instead would do fine
[05:22] <mattwj2002> at least you didn't keep in the code that does a sudo rm -rf / if it found Vendor ID of apple
[05:22] <mattwj2002> ;)
[05:22] <NoelJB> Amaranth, so 10.10 before Gnome 3 and compiz?
[05:22] <chu_> Jaunty doesn't support my acpi readings out of the box (Jaunty on 2.6.30 here), but hopefully Karmic will - I'm thinking of upgrading to 9.10 beta .. I have a separate /home partition (though, I also have a 500gb hdd here if backing up would still be wisest move), does anyone ave any documentation on doing an update? This is my only computer, so I'll probably have to write stuff down (just in case somethng goes bad)
[05:22] <arand> NoelJB: intriguing, I'll try that, I've just set up the framebuffer so I'll be albe to have a peek at the shutdown messages and/or panics
[05:22] <Moc> I disable compiz now... I like the effect, but is too slow with multiple windows open..
[05:23] <mattwj2002> so 9.10 will have the gnome-shell?
[05:23] <DanaG> I use dream/sidekick open close for regular windows, vacuum for menus, and lamp for minimize/unminimize.
[05:23] <bjsnider> DanaG, you'll give up compiz for mutter
[05:23] <XiXaQ> why am I being forwarded to help.ubuntu.com when I try to file a bug on karmic?
[05:23] <Amaranth> NoelJB: In 10.10 it'll be a fight between Gnome 3.0 and compiz
[05:23] <DanaG> No, mutter's animations sucked last time I tried it.
[05:24] <bjsnider> mattwj2002, it does have gnome-shell
[05:24] <DanaG> Shrink to the middle even on minimize... makes no sense.
[05:24] <mattwj2002> sweet
[05:24] <mattwj2002> :D
[05:24] <DanaG> Minimizing should NOT be the same as closing!
[05:24] <Amaranth> bjsnider: Sure, let's replace compiz with something slower and buggier
[05:24] <NoelJB> Amaranth, I was assuming that the goal is to have Gnome 3.0 work with compiz.  No?
[05:24] <Amaranth> NoelJB: No
[05:24] <Amaranth> NoelJB: Upstream is shutting us out completely
[05:24] <DanaG> That's bull.
[05:24] <NoelJB> Amaranth, why?!?!
[05:25] <NoelJB> That seems rather nasty.
[05:25]  * Dr_Willis liked Metisse.
[05:25] <DanaG> I've always been taught that tying stuff that should be separate, together too tightly, is bad coding style.
[05:25] <bjsnider> mutter replaces compiz
[05:25] <Amaranth> NoelJB: Because they believe the only way to provide a good interface is to merge the window manager and the panel
[05:25] <Amaranth> NoelJB: What they really mean is the only way to do their worthless sidebar UI is to merge the two
[05:25] <bjsnider> very much like apple
[05:26] <DanaG> Oh, and I could click the "Applications" button about 20 times before it actually finished the animation.
[05:26] <DanaG> Yeah, you can't replace Apple's WM, period.
[05:26] <Amaranth> bjsnider: mutter is slower and buggier than compiz and you have to use javascript to write plugins for it :P
 Like I give a rat's behind about their sidebar?
[05:26] <Amaranth> bjsnider: and it requires 3D which is why we probably won't have gnome-shell in Ubuntu
[05:26] <Moc> I ratter go back to windows than use macosx
[05:26] <DanaG> Same here!
[05:26] <Amaranth> Not in the default install anyway
[05:26] <Amaranth> OS X is pretty nice, actually
[05:26] <bjsnider> i have no problem with it because i use a driver that provides 3d
[05:27] <DanaG> hey, try to resize the upper-left side of a window.
[05:27] <DanaG> Oh wait, you can't.
[05:27] <DanaG> oh, and press home and end keys.... nope, they don't work.
[05:27] <Moc> Amaranth: It force the user to do it 1 way...  I rarely see mac user with different interface
[05:27] <bjsnider> Amaranth, are you mark shuttleworth?
[05:27] <Moc> I want my file/edit/... in my windows.
[05:27] <Amaranth> bjsnider: No...
[05:27] <bjsnider> praising osx like you are...
[05:27] <Moc> so when I work with multiple screen, I don't need to switch screen to acces my options
[05:28] <NoelJB> bjsnider, you do realize that you can query people's IDs, don't you?
[05:28] <Amaranth> bjsnider: He started praising OS X after I sent him my resume praising it ;)
[05:28] <bjsnider> i was trying to make a joke
[05:28] <NoelJB> bjsnider, ah, ok
[05:28] <DanaG> at least in firefox and safari address bar, and such.
[05:28] <Dr_Willis> Its all been downhill since C64 Geos. :P
[05:28] <Amaranth> bjsnider: Literally, I sent him my CV with a little bit about OS X in the cover letter then the next day he says almost the same thing in an interview :P
[05:29] <Amaranth> At that point I thought I had the job for sure...
[05:29] <bjsnider> Amaranth, you must have made an impression because he's been using every new distro as an opportunity to introduce some new feature that osx has
[05:30] <bjsnider> this time around it's fast boot times
[05:30] <Amaranth> bjsnider: I believe I said OS X users were willing to ignore a lot of the many problems of OS X because it looks good
[05:30] <Moc> One thing that I like, is the default theme have the console in black/grey output, like the icon representing it ;)
[05:30] <bjsnider> oh, i see. how deft
[05:31] <bjsnider> the apple slaves i know can't see any flaws
[05:31] <Moc> s/I like/I would like/g
[05:31] <DanaG> oh, and on my mom's iMac, Safari always always always resets itself to 4x6 photo paper setting.
[05:31] <Amaranth> bjsnider: But stretched out to a paragraph or two
[05:31] <DanaG> Every damn time you go to print.
[05:31] <DanaG> I just have her use Firefox instead.
[05:31] <Amaranth> DanaG: Every app in OS X does that
[05:31] <DanaG> No, Safari was even worse...
[05:31] <Moc> I have issues with printing in 9.04 that enveloppe were print in the wrong direction
[05:31] <Amaranth> DanaG: My grandpa couldn't print photos for 18 months because I couldn't figure out how to change it back to 4x6 borderless on the photo tray
[05:31] <DanaG> I'd create a Letter profile set to Letter paper, and then choose that profile.... and it would still say "4x6 photo".
[05:32] <DanaG> I wish there were a Photoshop Elements for Linux... honestly, it would work far better, judging from the troubles we've had.
[05:32] <Moc> anyway, there is alot of little stuff that could make ubuntu cleaner for me, and my accounting lady who I force ubuntu uppon her ;)
[05:32] <Amaranth> Moc: papercuts project
[05:32] <Amaranth> 100 every release
[05:33] <Moc> Amaranth: Im too lazy to fill out bug reports, and when I do, they get look at months latter ;)
[05:33] <DanaG> OOh, 65535 Bytes per second.
[05:33] <DanaG> NTFS-3G really does suck.
[05:34] <Moc> I now I either just complaint in irc channels and hope someone is borred and want to fix it, I try to fix it myself or I endure the issue ;)
[05:34] <bjsnider> note to self: "DanaG doesn't dig ntfs-3g"
[05:34] <arand> Hmm, I think like they should do a "Fyfty mortal wounds" project as well...
[05:34] <DanaG> It's taking literally hours to copy a file that should've taken 1/2 hour, tops.
[05:34] <arand> *Fifty.
[05:35] <Moc> It like for ubuntu server, I wanted to switch all my infrastructure to it, but it seem the gcc compiler mod and gdb mod are bad and not recommended for server use.
[05:35]  * DanaG votes to replace all of the gnome devs' cars with all exactly the same model of car.
[05:35] <DanaG> See, you don't need choice!
[05:35] <omegamormegil> I just installed the Karmic UNR beta and I get stuck in an endless reboot loop when the computer tries to boot.  I didn't see a bug report.  Anybody else hear of this problem?
[05:35] <NoelJB> DanaG, perhaps, but NTFS is the only file system we have that supports > 2GB files and can be exchanged with another OS.
[05:35] <bjsnider> DanaG, you could always use the k desktop environment
[05:36] <NoelJB> DanaG, how big is this file?  I copy 50GB in less time than that.
[05:36] <arand> DanaG: And make their carparks designed so you end up parking on top of others...
[05:36] <DanaG> 5.9 gigs.
[05:36] <bjsnider> NoelJB, ext3 is supported with a driver in windows
[05:36] <Moc> Also it weird, I'm trying to work with evolution (and will probably not continue try it), and I just notice the cancel icon is used for delete... weird
[05:36] <NoelJB> bjsnider, oh, yeah.  great.  I'll remember that when I'm in a meeting and need to provide files.  ;-)
[05:36] <DanaG> oh, and now Apple has their own HFS+ driver for Windows.
[05:37] <DanaG> But Linux won't do hfs+ journaling.
[05:37] <bjsnider> hfs+  is horrible
[05:37] <bjsnider> all apple users hate it
[05:37] <Moc> I don't hear much love for it neither
[05:37] <chris_> will amarok work on 9.1? it is giving me an error
[05:38] <dtchen> for those of you dist-upgrading right now, be aware of bug 441936
[05:38] <Amaranth> chris_: Try again monday
[05:38] <chris_> what is happening then?
[05:38] <NoelJB> is there an HFS+ file system driver for us?
[05:38] <DanaG> well, when SATA is being slower than a serial port..... yeah, that's failure.
[05:39] <arand> DanaG: Although it can be argued that Gnome's way of doing things is liek ensuring that every car has a steering wheel, and not a joystick/arowwkeys/mouse/footsense -control :)
[05:39] <DanaG> And all the knobs and gauges in exactly the same place, too.
[05:39] <DanaG> That's the problem.
[05:39]  * Moc back to his PBX work
[05:40] <arand> Since rather than putting all the knobs and gauges in the same place... they just remove them.
[05:40] <arand> Getting late, starting to rant, good night.
[05:47] <webbb82> there must have jjust been a big update i already installed the karmiic beta and it just  did 174 new updates
[05:49] <vigo_> webbb82: I think there was, I am on Karmic Development and just checked, got a bunch.
[05:51] <vigo_> I thought that NM was being replaced , but am uncertain as to when or why.
[05:52] <Xgates> say I'm reading this for Karmic and Macbook pro:
[05:52] <Xgates> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/MacBookPro5-5/Karmic?highlight=%28%28MacBookPro5-5|Karmic%29%29
[05:53] <ryanprior> So... I tried Karmic, and my wireless and sound don't work. :-(
[05:53] <Xgates> under the Keyboard Functions section it says pommed doesn't recognize Macbook Po 5,5 yet and to install the nvidia source and glk 190, what the heck is glk 190?
[05:53] <ryanprior> (they work on Ubuntu 8.10, my current distro)
[05:55] <vigo> Xgates: That is also in Jaunty.
[05:56] <Xgates> what is this glk 190 I can't find this to install
[05:58] <Xgates> on that URL I posted in the keyboard functions section it says this:
[05:58] <Xgates> (after installing nvidia_bl_dkms) F1/F2, dimming the LCD brightness (need to install nvidia kernel source and glk 190) pommed doesn't recognize Macbook Po 5,5 yet.
[05:59] <vigo> Xgates: Are you using jaunty in /etc/apt/sources.list?
[05:59] <Voss> ryan, do your wireless and sound work in jaunty?
[06:01] <httpdss> hi, im having problems with my existing user after upgrade from jaunty. after entering password, gnome starts to load and after 2 or 3 seconds hundreds of nautilus windows start to open. i created a new user and this problem cant be reproduced with the new user. to solve this i have to switch to tty1 and do "killall nautilus" until it says "no process running" ... strange... anybody having same issue ? or have an idea on how to solve it ?
[06:01] <Xgates> for the mactel ppa I added these in:
[06:01] <Xgates> deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/mactel-support/ubuntu jaunty main
[06:01] <Xgates> deb-src http://ppa.launchpad.net/mactel-support/ubuntu jaunty main
[06:01] <vigo> Xgates: That is what I just sorta understood from that.
[06:02] <Xgates> vigo you said ----> <vigo> Xgates: Are you using jaunty in /etc/apt/sources.list?
[06:02] <Xgates> I said ---> for the mactel ppa I added these in:
[06:02] <Xgates> deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/mactel-support/ubuntu jaunty main deb-src http://ppa.launchpad.net/mactel-support/ubuntu jaunty main
[06:03] <Xgates> second line --- deb-src....
[06:03] <vigo> Xgates: Yes, on the Karmic site/page it said use the jaunty in sources, one moment, trying to locate it again.
[06:03] <DanaG> aah, 15 megabytes per second... that'll actually mean the transfer will actually finish.
[06:04] <Xgates> vigo: ---> Package Support for Intel Macs
[06:04] <Xgates> I did that :)
[06:04] <Xgates> Install the modules from the MactelSupportTeam/PPA. Use jaunty in your /etc/apt/sources.list because the karmic PPA for Mactel is rather empty as of yet, and the Jaunty packages seem to work fine:
[06:04] <Xgates> deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/mactel-support/ubuntu jaunty main
[06:04] <Xgates> deb-src http://ppa.launchpad.net/mactel-support/ubuntu jaunty main
[06:05] <Xgates> vigo: I did that already :)
[06:05] <Dr_Willis> httpdss:  you could try cleaning out most of the problem users gnome settings.. one may be causing the issue.. sunce a NEW user has no issues.
[06:05] <Dr_Willis> httpdss:  but  be carefull you dont remove settings they want to keep
[06:05] <Xgates> vigo: SCROLL down to ---->  Keyboard Functions
[06:05] <Xgates> vigo: (after installing nvidia_bl_dkms) F1/F2, dimming the LCD brightness (need to install nvidia kernel source and glk 190) pommed doesn't recognize Macbook Po 5,5 yet.
[06:06] <Xgates> vigo: WHAT is glk 190 ? That's my question :)
[06:06] <vigo> Xgates: Ok, still looking, doc gave me some pain pills for my hands, so am a little slow at using peripherals.
[06:07] <Xgates> lol
[06:07] <Xgates> vigo: no worries I just want to know what the heck his glk 190 is to install cause I see no pkg named this anywher
[06:07] <Xgates> anywhere...
[06:07] <Xgates> his/this glk....
[06:09] <httpdss> Dr_Willis, which could be the folder to delete in order to reset gnome settings ?? i've checked on .xsession-errors and i can see all the spwned nautilus sessions, but no clue on who's the source :S
[06:09] <Dr_Willis> httpdss:  theres several of them.  .gnome*  .gtk*
[06:09] <Dr_Willis> httpdss:   someof them proberly have naitulus dirs. I just tend to clean them ALL out.. but im carefull to save my transmission 'settings'
[06:10] <Dr_Willis> thats the only program i got thats got any settings i worry about.
[06:10] <httpdss> ;)
[06:10] <Dr_Willis> I saw some url on resetting the gnome settings.. on Del.ici.ous once
[06:11] <httpdss> Dr_Willis, hmm i use dropbox and if those settings are removed im fried :P
[06:11] <Dr_Willis> http://linuxfud.wordpress.com/2007/02/14/how-to-reset-ubuntugnome-settings-to-defaults-without-re-installing/
[06:11] <Dr_Willis> Never used dropbox. no idea on it.
[06:12] <httpdss> thx 4 link !
[06:12] <Dr_Willis> backup the dirs you alter.clean..  I guess.. then restore the settings files later
[06:12] <Dr_Willis> all that url does is say delete these 5 dirs.... a little extreme. :)
[06:12] <Dr_Willis> not a very well done artical. :)
[06:15] <httpdss> hehehe, yes very extremist approach! i'll move them to some folder and see what happens
[06:15] <Dr_Willis> wow.. i just got a 'this pc chouls be scanned with our antivirus software' popup.....
[06:15] <Dr_Willis> http://computer-antivirus06.com/scan1/?pid=71&engine=pHTyzjjuNDQzLjE1OC4yMDAmdGltZT0xMjUyNMkNPAhM
[06:15] <Dr_Willis> gotta love fake virus alls.
[06:16] <Xgates> I think I got it --->    glk    Matrix Orbital GLK graphical LCD displays
[06:16] <Xgates>
[06:17] <vigo> Xgates: Did you see this one? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MactelSupportTeam/CommunityHelpPages
[06:17] <NoelJB> Xgates, you sure you don't mean glx?
[06:18] <NoelJB> Xgates, nvidia-glx-190
[06:18] <Xgates> NoelJB: Well I guess it's a typo then:
[06:18] <Xgates> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/MacBookPro5-5/Karmic?highlight=%28%28MacBookPro5-5|Karmic%29%29
[06:19] <Xgates>  Keyboard Functions
[06:19] <vigo> I kept getting all sorta off the wall stuff using GLK
[06:19] <Xgates> (after installing nvidia_bl_dkms) F1/F2, dimming the LCD brightness (need to install nvidia kernel source and glk 190) pommed doesn't recognize Macbook Po 5,5 yet.
[06:20] <Xgates> vigo: where did you find this GLK pkg?
[06:20] <Xgates> what name is it listed as?
[06:20] <vigo> Xgates: I looked at the MacTel things. learned alot.
[06:20] <DanaG> hmm, isn't policykit supposed to allow "remember authorization"?
[06:21] <DanaG> And isn't the gnome policykit thingy supposed to show devicekit stuff?
[06:21] <Xgates> NoelJB: so you think that's a typo, it's suppose to read glx-190?
[06:21] <DanaG> For me, it does neither.
[06:22] <vigo> I found a GLK mercedes benz, those are sweet looking cars.
[06:24] <vigo> Somone on this forum stated that 9.10 worked OTB, http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1245957
[06:24] <NoelJB> Xgates, seems so, from context.
[06:24] <Xgates> NoelJB: the thing is there is no glx-190 Nvidia isn't that high in versions there is only 180
[06:24] <NoelJB> Xgates, but bjsnider's PPA is where you'd get that.  ubuntu doesn't ship that version yet.
[06:25] <NoelJB> https://launchpad.net/~nvidia-vdpau/+archive/ppa
[06:26] <vigo> Thank you NoelJB: I closed that by mistake.
[06:26] <NoelJB> vigo, closed what?
[06:27] <vigo> That launchpad window.
[06:27] <Xgates> NoelJB: oh I thought all we needed was the Jaunty for MactelSupportTeam/PPA in the sources.list
[06:27] <Xgates> that's all the Wiki says
[06:27] <Xgates> hmm
[06:29] <NoelJB> Xgates, <<shrug>> I don't have a MacBook.   And, FWIW, there is a new 190.36 driver, but Brandon hasn't put it in the PPA yet.
[06:30] <Xgates> NoelJB: I'm just saying what the Wiki says is all, which doesn't mention any of this, that's all, out of date wiki :(
[06:30] <Xgates> I guess he wrote and then forgets to add the driver hehe
[06:31] <vigo> Funny stuff
[06:32] <Xgates> this ppa:nvidia-vdpau/ppa  to your system's Software Sources, Karmic is doing something different then /etc/apt/sources.list?
[06:33] <NoelJB> I still do them the same way as always.
[06:34] <Xgates> but is Karmic implementing a new method?
[06:34] <NoelJB> no clue.  haven't tried it.  seems something geared for newbies.
[06:34] <Xgates> according to that site you just add in --->  ppa:nvidia-vdpau/ppa
[06:34] <NoelJB> I don't like modifying sources.list.  I add per source files to sources.list.d/
[06:35] <Xgates> oh so Karmic is going to have a simpler method for adding in
[06:35] <bullgard4> http://www.ubuntu.com/testing/karmic/beta: "Please open bugs with the tag "ubuntu-boot-experience" on any messages you see flashed after grub loads and before the new Ubuntu Splash screen (xsplash) displays." is awkward English. Can you explain in plain English what is meant?
[06:36] <Xgates> NoelJB: oh my bad the GUI 'Software Sources
[06:36] <Xgates> LOL
[06:36]  * Xgates bangs head
[06:38] <yoota> how do i upgrade?
[06:39] <gsevil> how can I config upstart? after use bum (boot up manager) my ubuntu 9.10 crash after disk check, but when I boot to recovery mode, then resume, it boot normal, but I have to run startx to get to GUI
[06:39] <yoota> do i change /etc/update-manager/release-upgrades
[06:39] <yoota>  ???
[06:39] <yoota> or apt-get dist-upgrade ?
[06:40] <hifi> !upgrade
[06:41] <Dr_Willis> bullgard4:   'you see scrolling  after grub'.......   is a little clearer
[06:41] <hifi> !upgrade karmic
[06:41] <hifi> !karmic
[06:41] <hifi> hm, my ubottu-fu is low
[06:41] <hifi> I'm quite certain ubottu knows how to upgrade from jaunty to karmic
[06:41] <Dr_Willis> and i see several messages after grub. befor xsplash :) proberly 8-10 of them
[06:41] <Dr_Willis> !upgrade
[06:42] <Volkodav> where is the menu.lst in new grub ?
[06:42] <Dr_Willis> Volkodav:  grub2 uses a radically different config systel
[06:42] <Dr_Willis> !grub2
[06:42] <NoelJB> grub.cfg
[06:42] <Volkodav> hmm
[06:42] <Dr_Willis> You edit /etc/default/grub and /etc/grub.d files i recall
[06:42] <Volkodav> can't open it
[06:42] <Dr_Willis> you dont edit /boot/gryb/grub.cfg
[06:42] <NoelJB> and I don't know that grub2 is RFPT, although cj will disagree, I'm sure.
[06:42] <Volkodav> ok
[06:42] <Volkodav> thanks
[06:42] <Dr_Willis> you DONT edit /boot/grub/grub.cfg
[06:43] <Dr_Willis> :)
[06:43] <Volkodav> I got it Dr_Willis
[06:43] <NoelJB> Dr_Willis, you do if it is a dedicated grub partition.
[06:43] <NoelJB> which I have.
[06:43] <bullgard4> Dr_Willis: Even using your hint, I do not understand this sentence. Can you re-word it completely, pleas?
[06:43] <NoelJB> but still grub 1 because I don't trust grub 2 (it's blown up on me during upgrades)
[06:43] <bullgard4> s/pleas/please/
[06:44] <hifi> and is it addressed that fsck can't be skipped or the progress seen in karmic at the moment?
[06:44] <yoota> so with grub2 you cant have seperate boot partition?
[06:44] <yoota> seems like should still go in /boot and have a symlink from /etc
[06:44] <Dr_Willis> Hmmm grub.cfg can be (and will be) overwrittten anytime a kernbel gets changes/updated . if you want to customize it - customize the things in /etc/grub.d
[06:44] <NoelJB> yoota, you can, as far as I know.
[06:44] <hifi> yoota: do-release-upgrade -d
[06:44] <yoota> NoelJB, then config is not read at boot?
[06:45] <yoota> hifi, didn't work
[06:45] <yoota> "no release found"
[06:45] <hifi> you did pass the -d parameter?
[06:45] <yoota> yeah
[06:45] <NoelJB> yoota, I'd have to find the writeup on it.  there is one.
[06:45] <hifi> your mirrors are bad
[06:45] <hifi> or just not following karmic
[06:45] <mac_v> yoota: check the software sources
[06:45] <yoota> mirror.anl.gov
[06:46] <Dr_Willis> on any messages you see after grub loads  and befor the Ubuntu Xsplash screen displays.      (is pretty clear, no need for  extra words like scrolling, or flashing)
[06:46] <yoota> great fast mirror
[06:46] <yoota> is apt-get dist-upgrade supported?
[06:46] <hifi> yoota: no, do-release-upgrade is the correct way
[06:47] <mac_v> yoota: check software sources  , updates tab > Release upgrade ... what option you have selected
[06:47] <hifi> dist-upgrading will result in a broken system
[06:47] <cwillu> yoota, "apt-get dist-upgrade" was never the way to update to ubuntu+, if that's what you're asking
[06:48] <yoota> cause do-release-upgrade always fs with your sources
[06:48] <cwillu> yoota, we're talking about upgrading from jaunty, right?
[06:48] <yoota> yeah
[06:48] <cwillu> your sources need to be modified regardless then
[06:48] <yoota> yeah but i can do that
[06:48] <yoota> already did do it
[06:49] <cwillu> so, you went ahead and guessed that things worked the same way under a new release?  That's so cute!
[06:49] <cwillu> I mean, it's true in this case, but it's in no way guarenteed
[06:49] <cwillu> to say nothing of other major changes that require updates to be applied in a particular order (which do-release-upgrade handles)
[06:50] <hifi> revert your sources back to jaunty and then do do-release-upgrade -d
[06:50] <hifi> after you apt-get update