[01:08] <bcurtiswx> im looking at bug #373916 , and i am wondering in trying to help this person.. Im thinking i should get a log file of some sort from them, but im not sure which would be best... anyone know which one would be best.. or if im going in the wrong direction to grab a log file
[01:08] <ubot4`> Launchpad bug 373916 in ubuntu "Ubuntu 8.04 temporary freezes" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/373916
[01:10] <bcurtiswx> first off, i know the bug title is vague... but I don't think its at the fault of the reporter
[01:12] <hggdh> bcurtiswx, might be known. Ask him to attach dmesg... we might see (I hope) a message about a soft lockup)
[01:13] <bcurtiswx> hggdh: hmm, for my own learning here... what is a "soft lockup" message (asking for dmesg now too, thx hggdh)
[01:14] <hggdh> let me see if I find the bug I was thinking about
[01:14] <Ampelbein> damn. is gnome's bugzilla just slow for me? it currently makes launchpad feel like a rocketship ;-)
[01:14] <hggdh> Ampelbein, welcome to b.g.o ;-) it can get slow. If it is too slow, ping #bugs, perhaps someone is running a big search there
[01:15] <hggdh> happens every so often...
[01:15] <Ampelbein> hggdh: it's probably a sign and tells me I should go to bed now...
[01:16] <Ampelbein> just got home from watching the new star trek - it's awesome!
[01:16] <hggdh> cool. Will watch it one of these days. Been hearing good about it
[01:17] <bcurtiswx> i've heard the other side too, that the plot just screws up the whole star-trek series plotline
[01:17] <hggdh> bcurtiswx, for example, https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/245779
[01:17] <ubot4`> Launchpad bug 245779 in linux "Server 8.04 LTS: soft lockup - CPU#1 stuck for 11s! [bond1:3795] - bond - bond0" [High,Confirmed]
[01:18] <bcurtiswx> hggdh: ah, it actually says "soft lockup", neat
[01:18] <hggdh> bcurtiswx, it *might* be something like it. There are some bugs about it on LP
[01:21] <bcurtiswx> hggdh: thx
[01:31] <bcurtiswx> whats used on the LiveCD to format partitions? GParted?
[01:32] <hggdh> I do not know, never used the livecd, sorry
[01:32] <BUGabundo> bcurtiswx: AFAIR gparted is no longer on the livecd
[01:32] <micahg> bcurtiswx: yes
[01:32] <micahg> I thought it was
[01:32] <micahg> that's what I used last
[01:33] <BUGabundo> they have some code to handle the disk from the installer
[01:34] <bcurtiswx> what package should I file a wishlist bug about that package manager
[01:35] <micahg> BUGabundo: I just checked the jaunty alternate CD and couldn't find it
[01:35] <BUGabundo> micahg: alternate =! desktop
[01:35] <micahg> ah
[01:35] <micahg> true
[01:35] <BUGabundo> bcurtiswx: ubiquity I thikn
[01:35] <BUGabundo> I'm to lazy to boot a kvm to check if it is on livecd or not
[01:40] <bcurtiswx> BUGabundo: haha, i know how you feel.  thx
[01:40] <vocx> Anybody else has a problem in that there is no icon in the notification area when update-manager is running?
[01:41] <bcurtiswx> vocx: i don't think that this is a problem.  I believe that hows its designed in jaunty
[01:42] <vocx> bcurtiswx, oh, yes,... that's another possibility. Do you know anything concrete about that? A forum post, bug report, mailist post perhaps?
[01:43] <jmarsden> vocx: Is http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/releasenotes/904#Change%20in%20notifications%20of%20available%20updates what you are seeking?
[01:44] <BUGabundo> vocx: Bug 332945
[01:44] <ubot4`> Launchpad bug 332945 in null "[Jaunty] Update Notifier icon would provide useful status information" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/332945
[01:44] <BUGabundo> humm when did that change from WontFIX to fix release???
[01:44] <BUGabundo> ok now I have 100 emails to read that I didn't want to.... grrrr
[01:44] <bcurtiswx> vocx: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NotifyOSD may help
[01:45] <bcurtiswx> BUGabundo: its "fixed" in Karmic
[01:46] <BUGabundo> heheh
[01:46] <vocx> mmm... what's NULL project?
[01:46] <BUGabundo> I'll get there.... some day
[01:46] <BUGabundo> vocx: it's a project to replace another one added by mistake
[01:46] <bcurtiswx> i've deleted 'em all.. got sick after 10 of 'em
[01:46] <BUGabundo> so that that team doesn't get all the bug mail
[01:47] <vocx> So... I guess nobody subscribes to NULL project because it would get like<PHONE_NUMBER>546 mails a day
[01:47] <bcurtiswx> squared...
[01:47] <BUGabundo> ahaha
[01:49] <bcurtiswx> ooh, "restart required" just popped up in front of IRC... brb
[01:52] <BUGabundo> 2 min rebioot
[01:52] <BUGabundo> that's slowwww
[01:53] <bcurtiswx> lol, i don't have irc on auto-load
[01:54] <BUGabundo> ah
[01:54] <BUGabundo>  http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/112892/9-05-2009.png latest desktop
[01:54] <hggdh> wow!
[01:54] <vocx> As said Notify OSD is an unpolished feature, right? So right now it may have lotsa bugs that will be fixed in koala
[01:55] <bcurtiswx> BUGabundo: you got too much going on, holy cow (moo)
[01:55] <bcurtiswx> vocx: yea, its a work in progress until Karmic
[01:55] <hggdh> vocx, yes
[01:56] <vocx> Well, I just one to mention that right now, on my end it doesn't obey the top left, right, etc. options
[01:57] <bcurtiswx> vocx: they know about that.  I don't know though if they will change it from a static location to user-selected
[01:57] <vocx> BUGabundo, how big is your monitor and screen?
[01:57] <bcurtiswx> (i imagine they will)
[01:58] <vocx> bcurtiswx, they will, I just wanted to note the obvious bug... hehee
[01:59] <vocx> ...that way I don't need to actually report it... which would be like the 56th duplicate
[02:00] <BUGabundo> bcurtiswx: here is another in expose http://fileland.bugabundo.net/fotos/Linux/Desktop/09-05-2009-expose.png.php
[02:01] <bcurtiswx> vocx: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NotifyOSD/Comments is you don't see it there, add it
[02:02] <bcurtiswx> BUGabundo: you have 10 desktops?
[02:02] <BUGabundo> bcurtiswx: yep. its great on multimonitor
[02:02] <jmarsden> vocx: The PNG file is 1280x800, so... I'd guess that is BUGabundo's screen resolution :)
[02:02] <BUGabundo> and to show of the cube and expose
[02:02] <BUGabundo> jmarsden: yep
[02:03] <bcurtiswx> BUGabundo: seen Gnome 3 ?
[02:03] <bcurtiswx> mines 1280x1024
[02:03] <hggdh> 1920x1200
[02:03] <vocx> my monitor in 1280X1028 but use a "virtual" size of 1800x1024, I wonder how a screenshot would look like
[02:03] <bcurtiswx> and how much was THAT montior?
[02:04] <BUGabundo> vocx: easy: prtscrn
[02:04] <BUGabundo> bcurtiswx: I have not
[02:05] <BUGabundo> hggdh: you should see gouki's system. 3x20"
[02:05] <hggdh> ...
[02:05]  * hggdh dreams
[02:05] <vocx> BUGabundo, hey it worked with the screenshot thingy in the accessories menu, but it takes more than usual... unless that's a bug
[02:06] <BUGabundo> vocx: send it to us
[02:06] <bcurtiswx> BUGabundo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRL-Qtefy68
[02:08] <vocx> Try this is jaunty, select a folder with a few text files in it, right click and choose archive. Then the next dialog window takes quite a while to appear. It wasn't as slow before. (<--- bug?)
[02:09] <BUGabundo> vocx: I can't.... I'm on karmic
[02:09] <vocx> ... anybody else?
[02:10] <hggdh> ... karmic ...
[02:10] <vocx> you guys are too bleeding edge!
[02:10] <BUGabundo> ahahaahahhaahahahahah
[02:10]  * vocx shoots edgy people
[02:10] <BUGabundo> we ? nnaaaaaa
[02:10] <hggdh> or crazy, not that different from bleeding edge
[02:10] <BUGabundo> I waited more then a week before I upgraded
[02:12] <bcurtiswx> vocx: im not bleeding edge yet... and my window pops up just as _fast_ as the others
[02:12] <vocx> bcurtiswx, thanks for trying
[02:13] <vocx> I skimmed through the NotifyOSD specification... do you guys go to the developer summits often? Do they always sketch things in napkins?
[02:20] <lifeless> vocx: yes
[02:20] <lifeless> vocx: usually over dinner
[02:20] <BUGabundo> bedtime
[02:22] <vocx> by looking at BUGabundo screenshots, I wonder if he actually goes to bed, or if he actually turns off the PC... Many people don't even log off IRC in months.
[02:25] <bcurtiswx> lol;
[10:17] <BUGabundo1> hggdh: I think I've got your audio bug now
[10:17] <BUGabundo1> with new updates
[10:17] <BUGabundo1> dtchen: fyi my sound now starts muted. had to kill PA for it to work
[10:17] <BUGabundo1> dtchen: still Flash is not playing any sound :(
[10:18] <BUGabundo1> oh and Good morning everyone
[10:29] <BUGabundo1> ohh and dtchen: the last tab on pavucontrol should have a big RED sigh WARNING not to use!
[12:11] <BUGabundo> anyone using kmail ?
[12:11] <BUGabundo> need to confirm a bug
[12:11]  * BUGabundo goes to #kdepim
[12:12]  * maxb wonders how long he's been running without any swap partitions enabled
[12:13] <BUGabundo> maxb: is it working?
[12:13] <BUGabundo> had two mem leaks todays
[12:13] <BUGabundo> would be damned without 8GiB Swap
[12:13] <maxb> Somehow my swap partition seems to have changed UUID, hence it didn't get mounted at boot
[12:14] <maxb> I have 2GiB RAM in this laptop, which is apparently enough to run firefox, thunderbird and eclipse without swap
[12:15] <BUGabundo> 4GiBs here
[12:15] <BUGabundo> maxb: so you don't hibernate either
[12:15]  * penguin42 goes for the mean and points out he's on 3GB
[12:15] <BUGabundo> penguin42: windows laptop?
[12:16] <G__81> hi everyone
[12:16] <G__81> hi bdmurray
[12:16] <G__81> you there ?
[12:16] <BUGabundo> G__81: hi
[12:16] <penguin42> BUGabundo: No! i945 chipset - can only do 3GB even on 64bit Linux
[12:16] <G__81> Hi BUGabundo
[12:17] <BUGabundo> penguin42: humm no. BIOS option
[12:17] <BUGabundo> penguin42: there's an option to change the amount of RAM
[12:17] <penguin42> BUGabundo: No, I checked the datasheets for the chipset - it can only manage a total of 4GB physical including space for PCI etc
[12:18] <BUGabundo> that's so bad.... bad INTEL.
[12:19] <penguin42> if the BIOS was a bit kinder it would probably let you configure less PCI space and maybe get 3.5
[12:28] <G__81> penguin42, is bdmurray here ?
[12:28]  * penguin42 wouldn't know
[13:57] <nhandler> bdmurray: ping
[14:27] <|tohms|> can anyone tell me what SRU is?
[14:28]  * penguin42 is not sure, but I think it's sometype of proposed update
[14:28] <BUGabundo>  !sru
[14:28] <ubot4`> Stable Release Update information is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
[14:28] <|tohms|> cheers!
[14:28] <BUGabundo> penguin42: learn to use the Force ^W bot
[14:28] <penguin42> hmm, clever bot
[14:29] <BUGabundo> penguin42: which one? me or ubot4`?
[14:29] <penguin42> BUGabundo: You might be a bot - how would we know?
[14:30] <|tohms|> another question (started today in bugsquad) ... if one has fixed something in trunk than the correct status would be "fix commited" isn't it?
[14:31] <BUGabundo> penguin42: some say I pass the turin test. maybe I'm really a bot
[14:31] <BUGabundo> but a smart bot, that makes typos too
[14:31] <BUGabundo> |tohms|: I think so
[14:32] <|tohms|> k thx!
[14:37] <Elbrus> can somebody check that bug 369383 is tagged correctly? it is a sync-request I made from a previous bug of mine.
[14:37] <ubot4`> Launchpad bug 369383 in lesstif2 "Please sync lesstif2 0.95.0-2.3 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/369383
[14:39]  * |tohms| is confused
[14:40] <|tohms|> see bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/jaunty/+source/bluez/+bug/268502 there are several "affects" a few with status "fix released" and "fix commited" and other in  "new" and so on ... shouldn't they all have the same status??
[14:40] <ubot4`> Launchpad bug 268502 in linux "Bluetooth doesn't work (hci_cmd_task: hci0 command tx timeout)" [Medium,Fix committed]
[14:40] <kklimonda> Elbrus: you have to subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors
[14:41] <Elbrus> kklimonda: they are subscribed
[14:41] <kklimonda> hmm.. i don't see that
[14:41] <Elbrus> I do...
[14:42] <Elbrus> right under my own name:  Ubuntu Sponsors for universe
[14:42] <BUGabundo> bbl
[14:42] <kklimonda> Elbrus: also the best way of requesting sync is using requestsync tool - it will take care of almost everything
[14:43] <kklimonda> Elbrus: but it looks fine to me..
[14:43] <Elbrus> the point is that I already had a bug which I wanted to turn into the sync request
[14:43] <charlie-tca> |tohms|: not necessarily. Each version will need the fix backported, thus each version could have a different status
[14:43]  * Elbrus knows the tool
[14:43] <kklimonda> ya, i see
[14:44] <Elbrus> kklimonda: thanks for checking
[14:44] <kklimonda> hmm.. i wonder why I don't see ubuntu sponsors..
[14:44] <kklimonda> maybe there is a bug in edge..
[14:45] <|tohms|> charlie-tca: let me see if i understood: that means bug is fixed in package linux (means kernel) but bluez is not prepared to work with that fixed version?
[14:45] <Elbrus> I see the bug mentioned on https://bugs.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-universe-sponsors/+bugs?start=75 so they are subscribed I would say
[14:45] <kklimonda> yeah, looks like it - without edge it works..
[14:45] <Elbrus> what is edge anyway, the beta of launchpad?
[14:46] <charlie-tca> |tohms|: more or less. The ubuntu linux kernel team created a fix, but Jaunty and Intrepid both need the fix backported.
[14:46] <kklimonda> yes
[14:46] <charlie-tca> The kernel fix does not fix the bluez package
[14:47] <charlie-tca> That needs its own fix put into its own package
[14:47] <Elbrus> does the status of the sync request need to be "wishlist"?
[14:47] <kklimonda> it should be
[14:47] <charlie-tca> |tohms|: and the top two items are separate bugs filed in different bugzilla's
[14:47] <Elbrus> aha, I will change that
[14:48] <|tohms|> charlie-tca: the top 2 are clear to me ... only bluez was confusing me
[14:48] <charlie-tca> |tohms|: It may even be that the bluez source package bugs are invalid, since the bug may not need to have been filed against it
[14:48]  * Elbrus is not allowed.
[14:49] <Elbrus> could somebody set bug 369383 to wishlist?
[14:49] <ubot4`> Launchpad bug 369383 in lesstif2 "Please sync lesstif2 0.95.0-2.3 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/369383
[14:51] <charlie-tca> |tohms|: the hard part is remembering that each source item is a separate package/application that must have its own fix submitted to the package
[14:51] <|tohms|> charlie-tca: understand - thx!
[14:52] <|tohms|> think it's best i stay at the beginning with bugs in one package :)
[14:52] <charlie-tca> I does get confusing!
[14:53] <|tohms|> indeed
[14:59] <blueyed> Elbrus: done.
[14:59] <Elbrus> blueyed: thanks
[15:44] <askand> What would be an appropriate importancelevel for bug 355155?
[15:44] <ubot4`> Launchpad bug 355155 in linux "Computer hard locks randomly with ubuntu jaunty" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/355155
[15:48] <charlie-tca> per https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Importance if it only affects uncommon configurations or hardware, low. Otherwise, medium
[15:53] <charlie-tca> askand: looks like medium. Might be two or three different bugs, though, mixed together.
[15:53] <askand> charlie-tca: are you sure? To me it sounds like it has a moderate impact on a large (hard to define large, but hundreds of people are experiencing it) portion of Ubuntu users and some people can not even boot ubuntu, it freeze before GDM, that would make a default Ubuntu installation generally unusable for some users?
[15:54] <askand> It is far from critical but I would say it qualfies as high?
[15:54]  * Hobbsee notes that anything that says "randomly happens" effectively has an importance of "low"
[15:55] <charlie-tca> First, some can't boot, some are using -40 kernel, some are not using experimental kernel, that is separate issues
[15:55] <Hobbsee> or "untriaged"
[15:55] <askand> It's indeed a somewhat messy bugreport
[15:56] <charlie-tca> The only common thing is random freezes.
[15:56] <BUGabundo1> askand: what bug ?
[15:56] <askand> BUGabundo1: bug 355155
[15:56] <ubot4`> Launchpad bug 355155 in linux "Computer hard locks randomly with ubuntu jaunty" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/355155
[15:56] <BUGabundo1> I had that once
[15:57] <charlie-tca> Is everybody running ext4 file system?
[15:57] <Hobbsee> askand / charlie-tca: are they all using the nvidia binary driver?
[15:57] <askand> charlie-tca: no, different FS and different videocards
[15:57] <Hobbsee> oh, some ati as well
[15:57] <charlie-tca> No, one confirmed with Nvidia and ATI
[15:58] <askand> As far as I can see the common denominator is networking
[15:58] <BUGabundo1> charlie-tca: I am on ext3 + XFS
[15:58] <askand> It seems to be related to networking and the freezes does not appear in kernels before Jaunty or after (karmic)
[15:58] <Hobbsee> i'd also say that looks like multiple people reporting the same symptoms for different bugs
[15:58] <BUGabundo1> I have nvidia
[15:59] <charlie-tca> It is too early for karmic
[15:59] <dtchen> BUGabundo1: are your sound symptoms in jaunty or karmic?
[15:59] <BUGabundo1> when I was on jaunty
[15:59] <BUGabundo1> let me read the full bug to match
[15:59] <askand> charlie-tca: Yes, but people have sucessfully stopped the freezes by upgrading to 2.26.30 kernels
[15:59] <askand> instead of that in Jaunty
[16:00] <BUGabundo1> haven't had any on karmic dought
[16:00] <BUGabundo1> so upgrading kernel to mainline may help those users
[16:00] <askand> BUGabundo1: Indeed
[16:00] <Hobbsee> askand: i find it interesting that *none* of those people reference intel video cards, only (mostly) nvidia, and a few ATI.
[16:00] <dtchen> askand: which 2.6.30?
[16:01] <askand> dtchen: I meant that :)
[16:01] <Hobbsee> askand: either way, it'll have to be tracked down furhter before there's any point putting an importance on it, i guess
[16:01] <charlie-tca> askand: and yet the original report was based on Ubuntu 2.6.28-11.40-generic
[16:01] <dtchen> askand: err, no, 2.6.30 isn't out. are you talking rc3? rc4? rc5? ...
[16:01] <askand> Hobbsee: yes, I dont know how it should be tracked down, I told them to attach information such as /var/log/Xorg.0.log, dmesg and lspci -vvnn output and they did
[16:02] <Hobbsee> askand: I don't have the expertise either, sorry
[16:02] <charlie-tca> Looks like it needs to have the bugs separated out, even before it can be triaged
[16:02] <Hobbsee> charlie-tca++
[16:02] <askand> There is a thread in the forums, http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1135055 , but it is 21 pages long and also somewhat messy
[16:02] <dtchen> well, people tend to just latch onto whatever vague description or comment appears
[16:03] <charlie-tca> Maybe have them use the debugging procedures at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingProcedures
[16:04] <charlie-tca> You could request networking debugging and kernel debugging both, maybe
[16:04] <askand> charlie-tca: Yes, however https://help.ubuntu.com/community/DebuggingSystemCrash is hard to do since Sysrq does not work after a crash and not ssh either
[16:05] <BUGabundo1> askand: that can be collected with $ apport-collect -p linux 355155
[16:06] <charlie-tca> If they have wireless problems, use https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingNetworkManager
[16:06] <askand>  dtchen: As far as I know there is no chrashing in rc2 and up, and I think there is no crashing in 2.6.29 either
[16:06] <askand> BUGabundo1: what does apport-collect -p linux 355155 collect?
[16:07] <charlie-tca> gets the information from the crash
[16:07] <BUGabundo1> askand: all that you were asking before
[16:07] <charlie-tca> even works after a reboot
[16:07] <askand> oh ok
[16:07] <askand> So directly after crash and reboot, run apport-collect -p linux 355155 ?
[16:07] <charlie-tca> askand: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/KernelTeamBugPolicies
[16:08] <BUGabundo1> askand: package linux was just one example!
[16:08] <BUGabundo1> it can be anyother that you suspect its causing it
[16:08] <BUGabundo1> plus it will generate a LOT of bugmail
[16:08] <BUGabundo1> and sometimes (bug??) with will not upload all the logs, if that user already sent before
[16:10] <askand> BUGabundo1: since it is not a problem in kernels earlier or later than 2.26.28, I guess it would be linux?
[16:10] <askand> Im not sure however
[16:11] <askand> or rather linux-image-`uname -r` perhaps?
[16:12] <charlie-tca> askand: I would try that. Might get some information that can help narrow it down.
[16:13] <charlie-tca> Kernel bugs are pretty hard to triage sometimes. They can change too much for each kernel minor version
[16:16] <askand> charlie-tca: there seems to be someone who stopped the crashes by disabling his networkconnection, perhaps it is worth a try to ask people experiencing crashes to do that and see if the crashes continue?
[16:16] <askand> to try to narrow it down a bit
[16:18] <BUGabundo1> askand: I used to see several traces from intel wifi on shutdown
[16:18] <charlie-tca> You can try it. but try to get them all to submit the same reports. Usually if they don't submit the required logs, the bug is going to just get messed up worse
[16:18] <charlie-tca> But there is also airport involved
[16:19] <askand> Yes, a resetting airport and that is actually kind of what got me to experience the freeze for the first time, my router restarted itself and my computer froze
[16:20] <askand> BUGabundo1: I see, it indeed looks to be networkrelated (both wifi and cable)
[16:22] <BUGabundo1> so I need apport from linux and nm
 If they have wireless problems, use https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingNetworkManager
[16:23] <charlie-tca> works for cable connections, too
[16:25] <askand>  tail -n0 -f /var/log/syslog > /tmp/syslog   would that work after a crash/reboot too?
[16:25] <charlie-tca> It will be /var/log/syslog.0
[16:26] <charlie-tca> after the reboot
[16:26] <charlie-tca> I think syslog gets rewritten each boot
[16:27] <BUGabundo1> charlie-tca: I've touched that page... 3G is mine eheh
[16:27] <charlie-tca> Don't forget, run apport-collect -p network-manager 355155
[16:27] <charlie-tca> to get the information it can
[16:28] <BUGabundo1> omg I hope no one is subscribed to that bug lol
[16:28] <hggdh> hi BUGabundo1
[16:28] <BUGabundo1> ola hggdh
[16:29] <hggdh> BUGabundo1, you said earlier on today you had found/resolved my sound issue?
[16:30] <BUGabundo1> uhh hggdh I killed PA and on autospawn it worked (for me)
[16:30] <BUGabundo1> need to do that with recent upgrades
[16:31] <dtchen> on jaunty?
[16:31] <BUGabundo1> kk
[16:31] <BUGabundo1> dtchen: on boot sound is muted
[16:31] <dtchen> on jaunty?
[16:31] <BUGabundo1> karmic dtchen
[16:32] <BUGabundo1> kk = karmic koala
[16:32] <dtchen> sorry to be a pain, but please be very specific. i'm tracing several sets of symptoms, and it really does matter which release is used.
[16:32] <BUGabundo1> dtchen: I understand... for future references I am running karmic
[16:33] <BUGabundo1> dtchen: 6h ago here I stated that, if you check the log
[16:33] <dtchen> well, just to save my sanity (and because my memory is awful), please just mention it whenever you bring it up
[16:33] <askand> Is there a way to split a bugreport or do one create a new one?
[16:33] <dtchen> askand: create a new one; reference it in the old
[16:34] <BUGabundo1> dtchen: will do. unless my bad memory fails on me
[16:34] <BUGabundo1> askand: unforn NO
[17:02] <G__81> hi everyone
[17:02] <hggdh> BUGabundo1, you just pusleaudio --kill >
[17:02] <hggdh> ?
[17:02] <dtchen> killall pulseaudio
[17:02] <dtchen> then just allow it to autospawn
[17:02] <dtchen> e.g., speaker-test -c2
[17:02] <hggdh> dtchen, thanks, will try it now
[17:03] <hggdh> bloody hell, it seems to work!
[17:04] <BUGabundo1> back
[17:04] <BUGabundo1> anyone was talking to me?
[17:04] <BUGabundo1> hggdh: pulseaudio -k
[17:04] <hggdh> yes, I was asking how to do it, but Daniel told me
[17:04] <hggdh> and it worked -- or so it seems
[17:05] <BUGabundo1> dtchen: I have no sound at this moment (using karmic)
[17:05] <BUGabundo1> hggdh: give me back my audio... you stole it from me :)
[17:05] <hggdh> :-)
[17:05] <hggdh> but padevchooser still fails to run
[17:06] <BUGabundo1> wokring here
[17:06] <BUGabundo1> but no sound
[17:06] <BUGabundo1> let me check alsamixer
[17:06] <dtchen> padevchooser has avahi bits
[17:07] <dtchen> if avahi detects that your nameserver is serving .local, it will barf
[17:07] <BUGabundo1> ahh and I have that ON
[17:07] <dtchen> thus, padevchooser will refuse to start
[17:07] <BUGabundo1> that would explain why it died this morning
[17:07] <hggdh> oh
[17:07] <BUGabundo1> dtchen: oh and pavu has a new tab "configuration" where I chose other then analogo
[17:08] <dtchen> BUGabundo1: yes, the new pavucontrol is much improved
[17:08] <BUGabundo1> after I reset it, PA didn't work again until reboot
[17:08] <BUGabundo1> improved == not working ?
[17:08] <BUGabundo1> lol
[17:08] <dtchen> it works for me
[17:08] <BUGabundo1> change to digital while audio plays, and back to analog
[17:08] <BUGabundo1> ehhe
[17:09] <BUGabundo1> dtchen: I have an <unknown> Playback stream
[17:10] <BUGabundo1> ohh wait
[17:10] <BUGabundo1> it was set to digital....
[17:10] <BUGabundo1> that would explain why no audio
[17:10] <BUGabundo1> hggdh: next time check that last tab
[17:10] <hggdh> meanwhile I will see what I have on NS, and if avahi tells me something
[17:10] <hggdh> BUGabundo1, will do
[17:12] <BUGabundo1> dtchen: pavu control says link lib 9.15  and complied 9.14. is this good ?
[17:13] <dtchen> hggdh: sudo rm -f /var/run/avahi-daemon/disabled-for-unicast-local, sudo service avahi-daemon restart
[17:16] <BUGabundo1> dtchen: pavu control says link lib 9.15  and complied 9.14. is this good ?
[17:17] <hggdh> dtchen, the default conf for avahi comes with domain=local... I changed it, and restarted the beast
[17:17] <dtchen> hggdh: actually, the recommended procedure is in the jaunty release notes
[17:18] <dtchen> hggdh: sudo sed -i -e'/AVAHI_DAEMON_DETECT_LOCAL/s/1/0/' /etc/default/avahi-daemon && sudo service avahi-daemon restart
[17:18] <dtchen> BUGabundo1: should be ok, but we can force a no-change rebuild if crashers appear
[17:19] <BUGabundo1> ok dtchen
[17:22] <migbuntu> dtchen: ping
[17:23] <hggdh> will restart X... padevchooser does not return a browser error anymore, but hangs
[17:24] <migbuntu> dtchen: i dtchen i have a laptop Qosmio F50 and i use ubuntu jaunty. My subwoofer doesnt work.
[17:24] <migbuntu> i use HDA intel alsa mixer
[17:25] <dtchen> hggdh: where does it hang+
[17:25] <BUGabundo1> dtchen: so what I need to restart to have sound again?
[17:25] <dtchen> s/\+/\?/
[17:26] <dtchen> BUGabundo1: reselect the analog device in pavucontrol?
[17:26] <BUGabundo1> its already
[17:26] <BUGabundo1> but let me check
[17:26] <dtchen> BUGabundo1: of course the drastic route is to nuke ~/.pulse* and logging back in
[17:27] <dtchen> migbuntu: bug report #?
[17:27] <hggdh> dtchen, at startup (it seems. No window is displayed). I can install the debug packages, and gdb it, if you want
[17:27] <hggdh> dtchen, this is on kk
[17:27] <BUGabundo1> dtchen: sinks are on default, and Profile is at output analog+input analog
[17:27] <dtchen> hggdh: padevchooser goes to the notification area
[17:27] <dtchen> hggdh: or are you saying it doesn't even do that?
[17:28] <hggdh> dtchen, I am saying I am dumb... ;-(
[17:28] <BUGabundo1> dtchen: nuking .pulse
[17:28] <G__81> what are the bugs in 9.04 can someone give me the link for it ?
[17:29] <dtchen> G__81: that would be a gigantic list
[17:29] <hggdh> very sorry. I will take the next few seconds and try to drink a cup of water, and check that I indeed get the cup to my mouth.
[17:29] <BUGabundo1> G__81: the milestones?
[17:29] <dtchen> hggdh: np ;)
[17:29] <G__81> no i am intereted in triaging and fixing bugs so hence let me do some triaging and some fix too
[17:30] <G__81> so want the list of bugs for 9.04
[17:30] <BUGabundo1> G__81: then fix the ones for karmic and backport
[17:30] <BUGabundo1> just open launchpad and see the list
[17:30] <BUGabundo1>  !bugs
[17:30] <ubot4`> If you find a bug in Ubuntu or any of its derivatives, please file a bug report at: http://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu  -  Bugs in/wishes for the bots can be filed at http://launchpad.net/ubuntu-bots
[17:31] <hggdh> g_81, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu, and then search for 9.04 or jaunty, etc. It is difficult to say which bug is from which version (reporters not always state that, they may state but be wrong, etc)
[17:31] <BUGabundo1> humm is it me or lp is not opening ?
[17:31] <bcurtiswx> Bugabundo1: you...
[17:32] <BUGabundo1> hggdh: he can see the milestones for examle
[17:32] <G__81> yeah i understand
[17:32] <BUGabundo1> bcurtiswx: me
[17:32] <G__81> hi hggdh
[17:32] <BUGabundo1> G__81: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/jaunty/+bugs
[17:32] <BUGabundo1> there you go
[17:32] <hggdh> BUGabundo1, not a good idea -- milestone setting should be done by people with a good understanding of impacts
[17:32] <BUGabundo1> but KK is better https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/karmic/+bugs
[17:32] <BUGabundo1> ah ok
[17:33] <BUGabundo1> I have no knolage of what G__81 knows about coding
[17:33] <BUGabundo1> he said he *wanted to fix*
[17:33] <G__81> BUGabundo1, yes i will try to fix it i ve quite some experience with coding but not done any packaging stuff at all
[17:34] <dtchen> migbuntu: pong, did you reply to my question here?
[17:34] <BUGabundo1> G__81: welcome
[17:34] <BUGabundo1> dtchen: migbuntu is uploding the but to lp
[17:34] <BUGabundo1> so you have the alsa.sh
[17:34] <BUGabundo1> from apport alsa-base
[17:35] <BUGabundo1> slow typer eheh
[17:36] <BUGabundo1> uhhhh dtchen: sound just came back on its own! .
[17:37] <migbuntu> dtchen: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/alsa-driver/+bug/374166
[17:37] <ubot4`> Launchpad bug 374166 in alsa-driver "HDA intel integrated subwoofer doesnt work" [Undecided,New]
[17:37] <dtchen> oh, i thought you had already commented on a bug
[17:38] <hggdh> G__81, just start at launchpad; a good reference is http://wiki.ubuntu.com/HelpingWithBugs
[17:38] <BUGabundo1> dtchen: its new
[17:38] <BUGabundo1> LOL
[17:38] <dtchen> bug 371048
[17:38] <ubot4`> Launchpad bug 371048 in linux "Subwoofer doesn't work with HDA-Intel" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/371048
[17:39] <G__81> but how are bugs generally re produced and fixed here do you all test it in VM or is there some other way ?
[17:39] <BUGabundo1> maybe a dupe
[17:39] <BUGabundo1> G__81: each user/dev has its ways
[17:39] <BUGabundo1> I'm an alpha tester and run on my own laptop cutting edge and kvm
[17:40] <G__81> but whats the easy way of setting up an environment
[17:40] <BUGabundo1> G__81: depends on the bug!
[17:40] <hggdh> G__81, any way you can get it done is good enough. Of course, being able to run as near to the reporter's version is better, so having other test systems (or VMs) is a good idea
[17:41] <BUGabundo1> if you don't have nvidia you can't test those bugs
[17:41] <BUGabundo1> and have to request users to test packages from your PPA or proposed
[17:41] <dtchen> migbuntu: what's the output from awk -F, '{print $1}' /sys/module/snd_hda_intel/parameters/model
[17:41] <G__81> ok so in that case i need a VM to be setup so where in i can fix and test it
[17:42] <migbuntu> dtchen: <NULL>
[17:42] <hggdh> G__81, if you reproduce a bug on a newer version of a package, you can update the bug's description as shown here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Description
[17:42] <hggdh> G__81, in fact, all of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BugSquad/KnowledgeBase is good
[17:42] <BUGabundo1> G__81: I know devs that have vms for 32 & 64 for every supported version
[17:43] <G__81> ok so in that case i can setup a VM which runs 9.04 right ?
[17:43] <hggdh> yes, you can -- and should. Try to keep this system as close as possible to a "standard" install
[17:44] <G__81> dont mistake me since i am asking questions just to make things clear :)
[17:44] <BUGabundo1> G__81: its fine
[17:44] <hggdh> G__81, asking questions is not a problem... this is why we are here
[17:45] <G__81> so with Vbox i can install 9.04 first and download updates and install it and then i could use that instance for reproducing and fixing bugs and also triage
[17:45] <dtchen> migbuntu: sec, checking source
[17:45] <G__81> is that fine ?
[17:45] <hggdh> yes, it is
[17:45] <G__81> ok thanks :)
[17:46] <G__81> i have few other questions
[17:46] <hggdh> shoot... please do not ask to ask, just ask ;-)
[17:46] <BUGabundo1> hggdh: I'm not here to help.. I'm here to nag you guys , and pose as a bot :)
[17:46] <hggdh> LOL
[17:46] <G__81> now in fedora what i used to do is if there is a bug reported in bugzilla fedora i used to download the source try reproduce it and fix it and attach the patch to bugzilla so is the same process followed here ?
[17:47] <bcurtiswx> BUGabot: exit :P
[17:47] <BUGabundo1> G__81: a prob with updates is that some times you need -proposed, others the user doesn't even has -updates on
[17:47] <BUGabundo1> G__81: we have patch, PPAs, bzr, etc
[17:48] <hggdh> G__81, yes, with extensions: we really like people to check upstream if the issue is already known and worked out;
[17:48] <hggdh> so if you code a patch, we would be happier if you also opened a bug upstream, and also proposed the patch there
[17:49] <hggdh> (but we will still be happy if you do not do so, it will just give us more work to do)
[17:49] <BUGabundo1> hggdh: ahaha
[17:49] <dtchen> migbuntu: do you have a Toshiba dynabook? if so, which model?
[17:49] <G__81> and now how do i grep for bugs in gnome from LP ie which is Ubuntu specific
[17:50] <G__81> i am not able to see the component field :(
[17:50] <migbuntu> dtchen: Qosmio F50-10A
[17:50] <dtchen> migbuntu: ah, ok.
[17:50] <dtchen> migbuntu: try this:
[17:50] <hggdh> G__81, usually (ideally) every bug we open upstream should have a string like the following somewhere: "original Ubuntu bug: <link>"
[17:50] <hggdh> this does not always happen, though.
[17:50] <dtchen> echo options snd-hda-intel model=toshiba-rx1|sudo tee -a /etc/modprobe.d/sound.conf
[17:51] <dtchen> migbuntu: echo options snd-hda-intel model=toshiba-rx1|sudo tee -a /etc/modprobe.d/sound.conf
[17:51] <dtchen> migbuntu: then, sudo /sbin/alsa force-reload
[17:51] <penguin42> the only problem with using vm's is that you people end up testing on a smaller range of hardware - but they are damn useful
[17:51] <BUGabundo>  !bugs | G__81
[17:51] <ubot4`> G__81: If you find a bug in Ubuntu or any of its derivatives, please file a bug report at: http://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu  -  Bugs in/wishes for the bots can be filed at http://launchpad.net/ubuntu-bots
[17:52] <hggdh> G__81, another way is to look for bugs in "confirmed" status -- they may need an upstream task
[17:52] <BUGabundo> penguin42: I like kvm over most others VMs
[17:52] <penguin42> yeh I hear it's good - I'm using virtualbox-ose here
[17:52] <penguin42> ubuntu's setup for it is excellent - just works
[17:52] <G__81> this link has less bugs https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/jaunty/+bugs
[17:52] <BUGabundo> so does kvm
[17:52] <G__81> lot of stuff are in fix committed state
[17:53] <G__81> or in progress
[17:53] <penguin42> dtchen: The crackling fix problem is a bit nasty isn't it
[17:53] <dtchen> penguin42: broken hardware
[17:53] <penguin42> dtchen: Are you sure? It was solid on intrepid and hardy
[17:53] <BUGabundo> penguin42: my crackls too.... on jaunty with dtchen kernel was great!
[17:54] <dtchen> penguin42: pulseaudio was _completely_ different in intrepid and in hardy
[17:54] <penguin42> BUGabundo: Unfortunately for me the dtchen kernel brings a different bug back which I saw in the jaunty alphas that had gone away by release where the whole thing stops and crackles constantly with no other sound
[17:55] <hggdh> G__81, "fix committed" always means a fix was committed to whatever SCCS in use. Now, it can be set on either of two types of tasks: an *upstream* task -- which means the upstream git/svn/whatever has been updated (but no point-release done)
[17:55] <dtchen> neither ubuntu release had any of the glitch-free code, and even though we disable glitch-free, the buffering semantics have changed significantly that it's no use to compare intrepid/hardy to jaunty
[17:55] <G__81> ok hggdh yes i looked into it but to start off with something basic so that i get a feel of Ubuntu process and stuff where could i start off from apart from reading :)
[17:55] <penguin42> dtchen: But why do you say that's the hardware if pulseaudio has changed? I don't understand - isn't that all abstracted by alsa?
[17:56] <dtchen> penguin42: i'm happy to mark it verification-failed and have those hunks pulled, but it will break many other uses.
[17:56] <dtchen> if you read the bug tasks, it's not just linux. it's also pulseaudio.
[17:56] <bcurtiswx> dtchen: does the pulseaudio in karmic fix these jaunty issues?
[17:56] <hggdh> G__81, or on an Ubuntu task -- it will have a "(ubuntu)" after the package name --, which means the same as above *or* that a fix was published in the test environment (the "-proposed" thingy)
[17:56] <dtchen> bcurtiswx: no
[17:56] <penguin42> dtchen: With those changes although the crackling has gone it's unusable, with the release kernel it has annoying crackles but doesn't just stop and fall over
[17:56] <dtchen> penguin42: i'm well aware
[17:57] <dtchen> however, _which subset of users do i have to regress_?
[17:57] <hggdh> G__81, just grab a bug, and ask here if you are not sure, or even if you think you are ;-)
[17:57] <BUGabundo> hggdh: eheh
[17:57] <penguin42> dtchen: Well from my point of view I'd say leaving peoples with crackles is better than leaving some people with something that stops working altogether
[17:57] <G__81> hmmm ok let me look into the jaunty list again or is it better to look into 8.10 ? which is better
[17:57]  * hggdh goes to an X restart, to verify PA now starts nice
[17:57] <dtchen> penguin42: realise that many people can't even use pulseaudio without 12.43
[17:57] <hggdh> brb
[17:58] <G__81> i know jaunty has just got released so might be people might not have reported that many bugs
[17:58] <BUGabundo> G__81: karmic is better since is trunk and easier to track upstream
[17:58] <penguin42> dtchen: Oh OK I hadn't realised that
[17:58] <penguin42> dtchen: OK, go back a step - what changed between the jaunty alphas and jaunty release which meant that it fixed the problem where it failed like the .43 does?
[17:59] <BUGabundo> penguin42: lots changed! upstream and kernel bits
[17:59] <G__81> Ok when you say Karmic the developers would be using Jaunty as the current base line right ?
[17:59] <dtchen> penguin42: for which source package?
[17:59] <BUGabundo> G__81: several of us are on karmic alread
[17:59] <dtchen> migbuntu: status?
[17:59] <BUGabundo> I am , hggdh is too, and several others!
[17:59] <penguin42> dtchen: Good question; kernel I'm guessing - it's just that it feels like the bug that was reintroduced on .43 was the same as the one that went away by release
[17:59] <BUGabundo> G__81: feel free to visit us on #ubuntu+1
[18:00] <G__81> BUGabundo, how do you say it i am currently using 9.04
[18:00] <BUGabundo> dtchen: migbuntu went to quieter place to test subwoofer
[18:00] <migbuntu> dtchen: sould i restart? still the same no subwoofer sound
[18:00] <dtchen> migbuntu: i need the output from "amixer"
[18:00] <dtchen> migbuntu: please pastebin and attach to your bug report
[18:02] <dtchen> migbuntu: also, verify that you are using the proper quirk by inspecting /sys/module/snd_hda_intel/parameters/model
[18:02] <migbuntu> dtchen: http://pastebin.com/f1a22d14b
[18:03] <G__81> BUGabundo, i am in ubuntu+1 :)
[18:04] <dtchen> penguin42: just three alsa commits went in between release and proposed
[18:04] <dtchen> penguin42: again, i can't revert those without breaking others'
[18:04] <penguin42> dtchen: Yeh I saw, do you think any of those undo anything that was added between the alpha's and release?
[18:05] <dtchen> undo? no. they certain don't play well with our pulse, though
[18:05] <penguin42> hmm - is there a set of kernel, pulse, alsa packages that I can try as a set?
[18:06] <penguin42> (or would it be worth trying to downgrade pulse to Intrepid level?)
[18:08] <BUGabundo> dtchen: extreme idea: two packages? one for one set of users, another for the rest?
[18:09] <BUGabundo> assuming there are ONLY 2 subgroups
[18:11] <dtchen> BUGabundo: well, that approach places a maintenance burden on someone/some group
[18:11] <dtchen> it's not one i wish to carry
[18:11] <dtchen> i will if i must, but it'll be a PITA
[18:11] <BUGabundo> dtchen: I know its not ideal... but having users regress on every change is worse
[18:12] <penguin42> dtchen: Is there some specific feature that's new to Pulse in Jaunty that's triggering the problem - my problem didn't seem to happen if just using sound under KDE
[18:12] <dtchen> kde doesn't use pulseaudio
[18:13] <migbuntu> dtchen: cat /sys/module/snd_hda_intel/parameters/model
[18:13] <migbuntu> http://pastebin.com/f77d30c2b
[18:13] <dtchen> and yes, there has been a massive overhaul in the alsa backend for pulseaudio in jaunty
[18:13] <penguin42> dychen: yeh exactly, but that from my point means the basic audio driver is working for simple things - what is it that Pulse uses on the sound card that plain alsa doesn;t?
[18:14] <dtchen> penguin42: it has much more stringent requirements for extracting buffer position for the hardware
[18:14] <dtchen> those requirements are in place even if glitch-free is disabled
[18:15] <BUGabundo> dtchen: so you expect us to have a better audio stack for KK ?
[18:15] <BUGabundo> or 6 months is not enough?
[18:15] <dtchen> BUGabundo: well, i certainly hope so
[18:15] <penguin42> dtchen: Sounds like someone on pulse made an overly agressive assumption what you could get the hardware to reliably do
[18:15] <dtchen> penguin42: and that's why all those alsa patches went in
[18:15] <BUGabundo> penguin42: OTOH PA as exposed very bad drivers or broken hw
[18:15] <dtchen> penguin42: precisely because the hardware _cannot_ be correct all the time
[18:16] <dtchen> penguin42: and, as many users of HDA controllers are experiencing, their hardware sucks
[18:16] <penguin42> dtchen: Well it does suck for that feature, but it's something that nothing else has ever bothered hitting - it's never caused a problem for the last 2 years
[18:17] <dtchen> penguin42: just because it hasn't shown up doesn't mean it hasn't been broken.
[18:17] <penguin42> dtchen: True but not in a sense that's caused any users a problem
[18:17] <dtchen> penguin42: of course it has caused problems
[18:18] <penguin42> has it?
[18:18] <migbuntu> dtchen: are you trying something? to solve my problem...???
[18:18] <dtchen> users of jack have long complained about nondeterministic failures
[18:18] <penguin42> ah ok, haven't tried jack for a long time
[18:18] <dtchen> migbuntu: yes, but i'm slightly engaged atm
[18:18] <dtchen> migbuntu: it's difficult to do a dozen things simultaneously on irc
[18:19] <dtchen> migbuntu: don't worry, you're enqueued
[18:19] <migbuntu> dtchen: ok,  i understand... do what you have to do...
[18:20] <penguin42> dtchen: Is there any understanding of what's happening in the case of it all falling to bits and stopping playing? (and known to be fixed in later versions) - or is it still an unknown?
[18:20] <BUGabundo> bbl
[18:21] <dtchen> penguin42: it's being investigated in jaunty
[18:22] <migbuntu> dtchen: sorry.. perhaps i didnt mean to be aggressive... is there anything i can do...??
[18:22] <dtchen> migbuntu: not atm
[18:23] <penguin42> dtchen: OK yeh, I've been adding my experiences to #345627 - but I'm starting wondering if I can help more by moving to newer stuff
[18:25] <dtchen> penguin42: you could test karmic in a vm
[18:25] <dtchen> again, that approach won't help jaunty terribly much, but you'll be able to live
[18:25] <penguin42> dtchen: In a VM is unlikely to help test the audio isn't it?
[18:26] <dtchen> not necessarily
[18:27] <dtchen> you could always dist-upgrade to karmic if you want a true test
[18:28]  * penguin42 will try in a VM first; I can live with the crackling on the current release kernel on jaunty - I can't cope with the proposed though
[18:48] <bcurtiswx> what kinda of cool things can you do with virtualbox other than run another operating system?
[18:50] <dtchen> penguin42: is the cpulimit symptom reproducible in non-GStreamer apps?
[18:50] <penguin42> bcurtiswx: erm since it's a VM system what else would you expect it to do?
[18:51] <dtchen> penguin42: e.g., Firefox+Flash (with libasound2-plugins installed), or paplay some.gigantic.wav, etc.
[18:51] <bcurtiswx> penguin42: yeah i know.  i just don't know how to get it to use my graphics card (or if its even possible)
[18:52] <charlie-tca> bcurtiswx: I run all the alpha/beta/rc's in VBox, if it screws up, just delete that vm and start over
[18:53] <penguin42> dtchen: Not entirely sure - since it doesn't feel immediately I can't just say 'yep it works' - it's normally down to some other CPU happening at the same time, after it broke last time I tried killing pulse and it was still breaking without pulse in the way, so after it's failed it looks like alsa is very upset
[18:53] <penguin42> feel? fail!
[18:53] <charlie-tca> bcurtiswx: I also have vm's for every version of Ubuntu and Xubuntu in both 64 and 32 bit to test bugs in
[18:55]  * penguin42 wonders if there are any non-gstreamer music players I could leave playing as an alternative to rhythmbox or amarok
[18:57] <bcurtiswx> charlie-tca: whats a good base memory size for wach VBox
[18:57] <charlie-tca> 384
[18:58] <charlie-tca> It's a little slow if you are running much in it, but seems to work great for bugs
[18:58] <bcurtiswx> so for testing things like music and video players, how do I put test files onto them
[18:59] <penguin42> charlie-tca: Have you found a way to persuade it to chose more sane monitor sizes - it seems to default to 1024x768 which is a bit small, I can get it to go to 1280x1024 I think I need to hack the X config to do that - although that's a few pixels too high for my 1920x1080 monitor once I add borders, menu bar etc
[19:00] <charlie-tca> Just install guest utils
[19:00] <charlie-tca> Let's you use up to your hardware size
[19:00] <penguin42> I thought I had - hmm OK
[19:01] <charlie-tca> Although, I find after rebuilding the vm three or four times a day, I don't care what size it is
[19:01] <bcurtiswx> why the often rebuilds?
[19:01] <penguin42> charlie-tca: Haha OK
[19:02] <charlie-tca> Reproduce a bug, rebuild the vm. Reproduce another bug, want a clean machine for the next one.
[19:02] <penguin42> charlie-tca: Don't you just take clean install images?
[19:03] <charlie-tca> No, I delete the vm and rebuild it
[19:03] <penguin42> why?
[19:03] <penguin42> (unless you are testing install bugs)
[19:03] <bcurtiswx> penguins idea sounds good.  save the VM at the clean install state
[19:03] <bcurtiswx> then go back to that after reproducing a bug
[19:03]  * penguin42 doesn't think VirtualBox does COW discs which is a shame
[19:03] <dtchen> penguin42: which apps are triggering the cpulimit bug?
[19:03] <charlie-tca> I don't suppose it matters much, I just find it the easiest way for me
[19:03] <bcurtiswx> to each their own i guess
[19:04] <charlie-tca> I have 30 machines built up here. It doesn't really take much to rebuild one
[19:04] <penguin42> dtchen: Primarily rhythmbox, but then it's normally doing something else that kicks a bit of cpu, e.g. todays was running update-manager, I had one last week when it was going to google-maps, sometimes it's not obvious what the other side is
[19:05] <dtchen> penguin42: ok, so i presume it's reproducible in totem, too/
[19:05] <penguin42> dtchen: I guess so - but I rarely use totem so haven't noticed
[19:05] <YoBoY> hi
[19:05] <dtchen> please reproduce if you have the time
[19:06] <penguin42> dtchen: OK, any particular configuration of totem/backend/any particular type of media?
[19:06] <dtchen> penguin42: totem-gst and totem-xine, preferrably multiple using the same backend simultaneously
[19:07] <penguin42> hmm I wonder what to play in them
[19:07] <penguin42> dtchen: So multiple instances of the same totem-gst at the same time?
[19:07] <dtchen> penguin42: also, if you have non-Free Adobe Flash installed, please attempt to isolate whether it's reproducible with multiple Flash movies running by themselves, and reproducible with multiple Flash movies combined with multiple totem instances
[19:08] <dtchen> yes
[19:08] <penguin42> dtchen: I'm pretty sure todays was triggered with no flash at all
[19:09] <penguin42> dtchen: OK, I'll try and do that in a few hours - I'm just installing a VM to bring up to karmic
[19:11] <penguin42> dtchen: Do you happen to know if there is a separate bug anywhere for the crackling while muted and something is playing?  Obviously that's somehwat lets important
[19:13] <dtchen> penguin42: yes, multiple against linux
[19:13] <penguin42> ok fine, I won't bother filing that one then
[19:16] <YoBoY> bug 374055 > confirmed by me, it's a low importance if someone can put this
[19:16] <ubot4`> Launchpad bug 374055 in firefox-3.0 "Firefox goes to the wrong version of ubuntu release notes" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/374055
[19:18] <charlie-tca> YoBoY: that is a duplicate
[19:18] <charlie-tca> It has been doing that since gutsy
[19:18] <YoBoY> ha? i haven't see the other :]
[19:18] <hggdh> charlie-tca, you know the original bug #
[19:18] <YoBoY> ?
[19:18]  * hggdh now remembers something like that...
[19:19] <YoBoY> the link pointing to the prev release? since gutsy?
[19:19] <hggdh> yes
[19:19] <YoBoY> why? it's strange...
[19:20] <YoBoY> the bug # so i could read why ^^"
[19:20] <charlie-tca> no, I can't find it. Apparently I triaged that bug when it was remported
[19:20] <charlie-tca> Bug 274605
[19:20] <ubot4`> Launchpad bug 274605 in ubufox "Firefox release notes show Ubuntu release notes" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/274605
[19:20] <charlie-tca> Okay, there it is
[19:21]  * penguin42 goes to get food
[19:22] <YoBoY> ha ok, but the problem is not only it's showing the wrong releasenote (not the firefox one), but it's a double issue, it's the release notes of ubuntu 8.10 and not 9.04
[19:22] <charlie-tca> Yes, and it high importance
[19:22] <charlie-tca> due to being a regression, I think.
[19:23] <YoBoY> ok, it's a duplicate :p
[19:23] <hggdh> YoBoY, please update the description with the last release tested
[19:23] <YoBoY> ok
[19:24] <YoBoY> i add a comment? or i add a line in the description?
[19:24] <YoBoY> it's already added in comment
[19:26] <charlie-tca> Add a line in the description
[19:28] <hggdh> YoBoY, like shown in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Description
[19:28] <YoBoY> ok
[19:29] <hggdh> thanks
[19:29] <charlie-tca> Thanks for helping, YoBoY
[19:37] <YoBoY> done
[19:37] <hggdh> thank you, YoBoY
[19:38] <ewsubach> I've noticed that no matter what application I am using, the title bar does not always update right away. For example, I switch a tab in Firefox and the titlebar of the window still says I am looking at the old tab. If I mouse over the minimize, maximize, or close buttons, it changes.
[19:39] <ewsubach> Can anyone else verify this is happening to them? If so, I think it is a bug
[19:39] <YoBoY> ewsubach: not happening to me
[19:39] <charlie-tca> ewsubach: not happening here
[19:41] <ewsubach> At first I thought it was a random glitch, but it happens to me quite often. Mabye it's just my system or something. But it definitely is not application specific.
[19:43] <YoBoY> ewsubach: perhaps your windows manager... or some compiz effects... or some firefox plugin...
[19:43] <penguin42> ewsubach: Are you in Gnome or KDE?
[19:43] <ewsubach> penguin42: gnome
[19:44] <ewsubach> YoBoY: it happens in anything...gedit most noticeably
[19:44] <penguin42> ewsubach: Any other weird redraw type problems or is that it?
[19:44] <ewsubach> penguin42: that's it, nothing else weird happening
[19:44] <YoBoY> ewsubach: and your video card is?
[19:45] <ewsubach> YoBoY: nVidia 8800M GTX
[19:45] <ewsubach> YoBoY: laptop
[19:45] <YoBoY> latest drivers?
[19:45] <ewsubach> YoBoY: yes
[19:46] <ewsubach> It's not that big a deal, I just thought maybe other people had the same problem and I had found a bug.
[19:47] <penguin42> ewsubach: Well it's certainly a bug if it happens, even if it's just for you - although it might be specific to your hardware - but that would be a bit odd I guess if that's the only symptom
[19:47] <ewsubach> penguin42: is it worth reporting to the bug system? If so, do I do it under Ubuntu or Gnome
[19:48] <penguin42> I'd say it's worth reporting - does it happen if you turn off desktop effects?
[19:49] <ewsubach> penguin42: I haven't tried turning it off, but I will give that a try. Another thing is my laptop has a hardware button to slow the cpu down to conserve battery. I almost always have it on, so this could be causing problems
[19:50] <penguin42> ewsubach: Are you sure that slows the CPU down not something else?
[19:51] <ewsubach> penguin42: I'm pretty sure it actually underclocks the cpu
[19:51] <penguin42> hmm wacky
[19:52] <charlie-tca> uncerclocking the cpu could be the cause. It might be slowing the update down on the tabs
[19:52] <ewsubach> penguin42: yeah :) it's an alienware... I just went back to the site and confirmed. This is what it does.
[19:53] <ewsubach> charlie-tca: I'm starting to think that as well. I have noticed that application startup and shutdown isn't super responsive
[19:53] <charlie-tca> If you are slowing the cpu, it is just like trying to run one of my old systems. It will affect things.
[19:54] <penguin42> I'd be very surprised if it had that much impact on just the title bars
[19:54] <charlie-tca> Must be time for a walk. Still have 1-1/2 hrs on this 7.10 to 8.04 upgrade
[19:55] <ewsubach> charlie-tca: gotcha. I will try a few days on full power and no compiz to see if that works
[19:55] <ewsubach> thanks for the help, guys!
[19:55] <charlie-tca> penguin42: why? The slower the cpu, the slower things happen
[19:56] <charlie-tca> Apps start slower, tabs update slower, some apps will run slower
[19:56] <penguin42> charlie-tca: It's pretty rare for it to just slow that one thing down so noticeably
[19:56] <ewsubach> just to clarify, it isn't just slowing down, it isn't updating at all.
[19:56] <charlie-tca> gedit tabs, firefox tabs, app startup and shutdown,
[19:57] <charlie-tca> ewsubach: you mean it never changes tabs?
[19:57] <ewsubach> charlie-tca: the tabs aren't the problem, it is only the title bar. if I close a tab the title bar will reflect the tab that I just closed and not the one it changes to
[19:58] <ewsubach> or for instance I go to a new URL in firefox (within the same tab), it doesn't update the title bar
[19:58] <charlie-tca> Did you upgrade to 9.04?
[19:58] <ewsubach> i did a fresh install of 9.04
[19:59] <charlie-tca> bug
[19:59] <ewsubach> Interesting...of course it only affects me ;)
[19:59] <penguin42> ewsubach: There's probably someone else as well somewhere
[20:00] <ewsubach> Like I said, I'll try a few days on full power and see if it makes a difference. If not, I'll file a bug
[20:00] <charlie-tca> Yeah, I filed one testing jaunty, no one ever had it, but the developers were able to see what was causing it and fix it.
[20:00] <ewsubach> cool!
[20:00] <ewsubach> I've gotta go, but thanks for the help!
[20:00] <penguin42> ewsubach: Also try turning off desktop effects
[20:01] <ewsubach> penguin42: will do
[20:01] <ewsubach> charlie-tca: good luck with the upgrade
[20:01] <charlie-tca> Thanks, keep trying
[20:27] <bcurtiswx> charlie-tca: my chip supports 64 bit, but i am using a 32 bit ubuntu.. so can i use a 64 bit VM of ubuntu on this 32 bit ubuntu?
[20:28] <penguin42> bcurtiswx: I think there are some VM systems that can do that trick - I'm not sure if virtualbox can
[20:28] <charlie-tca> I don't know
[20:28] <penguin42> bcurtiswx: Also for 64bit guests in virtualbox you need to make sure your CPU has 'vt'
[20:28] <bcurtiswx> it does
[20:29] <bcurtiswx> 'eh, the 64 bit doesn't want to install on VBox
[20:30] <charlie-tca> Might be it needs the hardware 64-bit kernel installed
[20:30] <charlie-tca> Which means it won't work
[20:30] <bcurtiswx> how do you have yours working ?
[20:31] <charlie-tca> I have 64-bit Xubuntu installed
[20:31] <hggdh> all: eeebotu is going offline for 5 minutes for a security-update reboot on the server
[20:32] <charlie-tca> then installed VBox. I think VBox is specific, come to think of it.
[20:32] <charlie-tca> It will not run 64-bit guests in 32-bit installations
[20:34] <bcurtiswx> no biggie, i just won't test bugs in 64 bit ubuntu
[20:36] <charlie-tca> Couldn't anyway, right?>
[20:38] <bcurtiswx> well i had the 64bit ubuntu, then saw in jaunty i can't play yahoo games, so came back to 32 bit (because thats the main use of my chip anyways)
[20:39] <penguin42> hehe it does take some effort to get Flash happy on 64bit
[20:40] <bcurtiswx> yeah flash is a big pain in the rear end in 64 bit
[20:40] <penguin42> it seems better in Jaunty than previously
[20:41] <calc> "flash is a big pain in the rear" period
[20:42] <calc> it crashes everywhere including on windows... maybe just not as much as on 64bit linux
[20:42] <calc> before converting my wife over to ubuntu her windows system constantly had problems with flash not working properly
[20:44] <penguin42> it feels like a hack could be done to detect when it's screwed and fix something up - in 64bit ubuntu when it stops working it doesn't break the rest of firefox, you just get a blank area where the flash should be - if restarting firefox fixes it then presumably there would be a way to clean something up more easily
[20:45] <hggdh> all: eeebotu is back. Sorry for the delay, but (of course) I had a shutdown hanging situation, and had to get the server.
[21:06] <bcurtiswx> hggdh: what does eeebotu do?
[21:08] <hggdh> bcurtiswx, it announces new bugs on #ubuntu-bugs-announce
[21:09] <bcurtiswx> ahh, yes.. <hits self> i knew that
[21:09] <hggdh> :-)
[21:09] <hggdh> bcurtiswx, don't feel bad. This morning I had one dumb moment that was really bad...
[21:10] <bcurtiswx> hggdh: so you want me to ask you what it what?
[21:10] <bcurtiswx> was*
[21:11] <hggdh> a moment of stupidity while discussing sounds problems with dr chen
[21:11] <hggdh> s/dr/dt/
[21:11] <hggdh> its in the logs...
[21:12] <bcurtiswx> yeah i just went up on my log
[21:12] <bcurtiswx> the part where you say "no i mean that i am dumb"
[21:25] <bcurtiswx> hmm, VBox guest additions screwed my display up
[21:26] <bcurtiswx> well the VBox display
[21:30] <hggdh> bcurtiswx, now the hope is that we both will not have another bout of, er, reduced memory
[21:31] <bcurtiswx> hggdh: oh, but i'm full of "reduced memory".
[21:31] <hggdh> heh
[21:31] <charlie-tca> bcurtiswx: Maybe you need to increase video memory
[21:32] <bcurtiswx> charlie-tca, it says it has to run in "low graphics mode"
[21:32] <hggdh> LOL
[21:33] <charlie-tca> It may not have enough video memory, preset is real small.
[21:34] <bcurtiswx> "failed to load 'vboxvideo' module does not exist"
[22:01] <bcurtiswx> well, the new VBox has fixes for my problem.. neat
[22:12] <penguin42> right, a nice fresh Karmic vm
[22:30] <penguin42> dtchen: Knock knock
[22:31] <dtchen> yes?
[22:32] <penguin42> dtchen: You know you suggested trying stuff in a VM - is sound known to work in a virtualbox VM?
[22:32] <dtchen> penguin42: it does here
[22:32] <penguin42> intersting - Rhythmbox in a virtualbox with karmic is failing completely
[22:32] <dtchen> how so?
[22:33] <penguin42> 'pulseaudio[3447]: alsa-sink.c: ALSA woke us up to write new data to the device, but there was actually nothing to write!'
[22:33] <penguin42> that's a log inside the VM
[22:33] <dtchen> that's not fatal
[22:34] <penguin42> ok, so then there's a message about it mostly likely being a bug in ALSA driver 'snd_intel8x0' then the next line is 'We were woken up with POLLOUT set -- however a subsdequent snd_pcm_avail() returned 0 or another value < min_avail.
[22:35] <penguin42> I'm hearing almost nothing from rhythmbox - a few clicks and it's getting an error from each attempt to play (it shows it as 'Disconnected: connection terminated'
[22:37] <penguin42> the login chime played ok
[22:42] <penguin42> yeh - and a Received request to terminate due to CPU overload in the VM
[22:43] <dtchen> ok, sounds about right
[22:44] <dtchen> there is another component we're not looking at, which is the GSt pulse backend
[22:45] <penguin42> dtchen: The test button on sound preferences in the VM is also not working right (very sporadic distorted beeps) - so I don't think it's GSt
[22:45] <dtchen> it has been completely rewritten in the past few weeks
[22:45] <dtchen> can you reproduce the symptom using totem-xine?
[22:46]  * penguin42 apt-get's
[22:47] <dtchen> (doesn't amarok use the xine backend?)
[22:48] <penguin42> well, I've got totem-xine running at the moment and am getting no sound from it - pulse at 71% CPU, totem at 22 - and totem just stopped with 'An error occured' - The audio device is busy
[22:48] <penguin42> and that's kicked another request to terminate
[22:49] <penguin42> the host is running the <IP_ADDRESS> and it's audio is fine (if a little crackly)
[22:50] <dtchen> err, that's not really a good test
[22:50] <penguin42> dtchen: I could try rebooting the VM  - I suspect if I do that totem-xine will run OK but I'm not sure
[22:50] <dtchen> you don't want the host running PA at all
[22:50] <penguin42> OK, I can kill the host PA off - but what makes you think there's any relation - the inside of the guest doesn't know about what the host is doing
[22:51] <dtchen> you don't want any PA running outside the vm
[22:51] <stpere> penguin42: what do you think the guest will be using to play sound?
[22:51] <stpere> errr.. the vm I should say
[22:51] <penguin42> stpere: An emulation of an intel-hda - it doesn't know what's outside
[22:51] <penguin42> stpere: The VM system is using pa, but the guest OS doesn't know that
[22:52] <stpere> yes
[22:52] <stpere> but it will go through PA at one point tho?
[22:52] <stpere> between the VM and your speakers?
[22:52] <penguin42> and in this case the error is entirely inside the VM, so there shouldn't be any correlation there
[22:52] <stpere> ok
[22:52] <penguin42> stpere: The host is playing PA sound fine at the moment (other than some crackles) - not the symptom seen in the VM
[22:52] <dtchen> but you're hitting the host's PA, which is yet another error point
[22:53] <penguin42> dtchen: I agree but that shouldn't cause the PA inside the VM to exit
[22:53] <stpere> penguin42: imagine you have an issue with your host video drivers.. that could make your guest OS looks weird, no?
[22:53] <penguin42> the two don't know anything about each other
[22:54] <penguin42> stpere: Look weird yes, produce errors in the video driver on the inside - no
[22:54] <stpere> well, I saw VBox crash while testing an OS
[22:54] <penguin42> sure, and that would be a VBox bug
[22:54] <stpere> so, I wouldn't say the isolation is always perfect
[22:54] <stpere> yes
[22:55] <stpere> but what's telling you there is no VBox bug this time?
[22:55] <stpere> anyway, do as you will :)
[22:55] <penguin42> stpere: It's very similar symptoms to what I get on the real machine using a different kernel
[22:59] <dtchen> penguin42: which codec do you have?
[23:00] <penguin42> it's an ogg audio and totem-xine - or do you mean hardware?
[23:00] <dtchen> the latter
[23:01] <penguin42> can you remind me the command to tell?
[23:02] <penguin42> ah
[23:02] <penguin42> On the host I see Realtek ALC861 as codec#0 and LSI Si3054 as codec #1 which I suspect is a modem
[23:03] <penguin42> the Virtualbox is emulating a Sigmatel STAC9700
[23:05] <dtchen> interesting. the realteks are particularly sensitive.
[23:06] <dtchen> anyhow, i need to fix up another codec, so i'm not going to look at the bug until later
[23:06] <penguin42> ok, I'll try killing the host pa in a few minutes and see if the virtualbox works, and also try the tests you asked earlier on the host
[23:06] <penguin42> dmesg
[23:30] <maco> any yacc/bison -knowledgeable folks around that can tell me if this is a bug or user error?
[23:30] <penguin42> dtchen: totem-xine in the VM still request to terminate/almost no audio with the host pa killed off and VirtualBox using OSS as it's backend
[23:30] <penguin42> maco: It's a LONG time since I used bison but I can try
[23:31] <maco> if i have %type <NumberType> expression where NumberType is in the union of types and is a struct
[23:31] <maco> and i have loop --> WHILE expression DO statement
[23:32] <penguin42> OK
[23:33] <maco> if i try to break at WHILE {} expression so i can do stuff there, then if i try to look at $2->type after ward (after expression is read, i mean like WHILE {} expression {} DO statemtent{}) it'll say that $2 has no declared type
[23:34] <maco> $2 should refer to expression which is declared as a struct with member "type" ...so something seems wrong
[23:34] <maco> elsewhere, i have "IF expression {}..." and expression is evaluated fine
[23:35] <maco> it *seems* like a bug, but bison's all old and has had a very long time of use and testing so i'd be kind of surprised to hit one so easily
[23:35] <penguin42> nah that's over my head - it's been way too ong since I've debugged parsers
[23:36] <maco> k
[23:36] <penguin42> when you say break - doing what?
[23:36] <maco> by break i mean putting  { /* C code here */ }
[23:36] <maco> i've got an if($2->type != 'i') in there
[23:36] <maco> and it cant evaluate $2->type
[23:37] <penguin42> so yeh you're expecting $2 to be NumberType there?
[23:38] <maco> yes
[23:40] <penguin42> have you #included your header that defines your NumberType in the .y ?
[23:40] <maco> i have it right in the .y and not 20 lines before that, it works fine where i have "IF expression"
[23:41] <penguin42> that almost suggests that the $2 isn't being seen as the expression but something else
[23:41] <penguin42> I bet it's misparsing something before it so that your expression is $8 or something
[23:42] <maco> this is just on the compilation though
[23:42] <maco> the .y won't compile
[23:42] <penguin42> yeh but I mean in your .y I bet the syntax is such that $2 isn't what you think it is
[23:42] <penguin42> can you share the .y ?
[23:42] <maco> if i comment out the if statement that it's upset about, it compiles fine and does the right thing
[23:43] <maco> yes, but i warn you it's UGLY code ;)
[23:43] <penguin42> hehe that's OK :-)
[23:44] <maco> its full of me floundering around trying to make a symbol table (compilers class, so first time)
[23:44] <maco> its pushing to launchpad now
[23:44] <maco> ok ~maco.m/+junk/compiler
[23:46] <maco> (version control seemed like a good idea on something this confusing. i knew i'd need a revert at some point)
[23:47] <penguin42> it certainly looks like the if one doesn't it
[23:47] <maco> penguin42: specifically http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~maco.m/%2Bjunk/compiler/annotate/head%3A/parser.y line 467
[23:47] <penguin42> yeh
[23:48] <penguin42> if oyu take out the  {....} between the WHILE and the expression it still does it?
[23:48] <maco> no, then it's fine
[23:48] <maco> i think...lemme double check
[23:49] <maco> compiles fine
[23:49] <penguin42> do you think the  {....} counts as an entry - i.e. should it be $3 then?
[23:49] <maco> oh..lets try
[23:49] <penguin42> or maybe $1 on the assumption the previous {} eat the $1
[23:50] <maco> i already tried $1 but it seems $3 does the trick
[23:50] <maco> so yep, user error, not a bison bug
[23:50] <maco> thank you :)
[23:58] <bcurtiswx> i <3 C prog