[12:10] <imbrandon> if it worked
[12:11] <imbrandon> engla: whats the package
[12:13] <LaserJock> can you "subscribe" to a package in Debian's BTS?
[12:14] <geser> yes
[12:14] <minghua> LaserJock: yes
[12:14] <geser> use packages.qa.debian.org/
[12:14] <geser> to subscribe
[12:15] <minghua> http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/developers-reference/ch-resources.en.html#s-pkg-tracking-system
[12:15] <engla> imbrandon: dragbox
[12:16] <engla> v 0.2.3
[12:18] <imbrandon> dragbox is not on REVU, so the upload dident work, did you have a REVU admin sync the keyring before you uploaded ?
[12:19] <engla> imbrandon: nope
[12:19] <minghua> hmm, I seem to be able to kill xchat-gnome easily by clicking on urls in the topic
[12:19] <engla> imbrandon: but dput told me it was successful. But I have the same suspicion you have
[12:20] <engla> imbrandon: any admin here to ask?
[12:20] <imbrandon> ajmitch: sudo - revu1 revu-key update ?
[12:20] <imbrandon> engla: one sec, doing it now
[12:20] <engla> thank you!
[12:21] <imbrandon> ajmitch: err sudo su - revu1 revu-key update
[12:24] <minghua> didn't we have universe freeze and beta freeze the same time in edgy?
[12:24] <LaserJock> minghua: xchat-gnome?
[12:24] <minghua> LaserJock: yes
[12:24] <LaserJock> why in the world are you using that? :-)
[12:25] <minghua> what's wrong with xchat-gnome?
[12:25] <DarkMageZ> because xchat crashes on exit often?
[12:25] <minghua> ubuntu used to set xchat-gnome as the default irc client IIRC
[12:25] <LaserJock> maybe's significantly improved
[12:25] <LaserJock> it was pretty nasty
[12:26] <DarkMageZ> i tried the dapper & edgy versions... it's still nasty
[12:26] <DarkMageZ> either way, bug #57951 annoys xchat users, cept those who compiled their own packages from the new upstream version
[12:26] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 57951 in xchat "xchat crashes frequently on quit" [Undecided,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/57951
[12:27] <LaserJock> hmm
[12:28] <LaserJock> I've never had a problem with xchat :/
[12:28] <DarkMageZ> hmm, well there's something trippy going on with alot of peoples edgy xchats
[12:30] <LaserJock> weird
[12:31] <minghua> xchat doesn't have any translations.  not it bothers me, but one thing to consider
[12:31] <LaserJock> that's interesting
[12:32] <minghua> I must say I like Konversation quite a bit after using it for a while
[12:32] <LaserJock> yeah
[12:32] <DarkMageZ> i pulled debians 2.6.8 and built that. i seriously can't replicate the bug after alot of testing
[12:32] <minghua> but I still fell a little stupid to use a KDE app in GNOME
[12:33] <LaserJock> minghua: you should try Edubuntu then ;-)
[12:34] <minghua> nah.  never used XFCE.  don't think I can adjust to it soon.
[12:34] <LaserJock> minghua: Edubuntu is Gnome with KDE apps
[12:35] <pygi> minghua: :p
[12:35] <minghua> oh.  I was thinking of Xubuntu.
[12:35] <DarkMageZ> isn't edubuntu for those educational centres of doom?
[12:35] <DarkMageZ> also called schools
[12:35] <LaserJock> not just schools
[12:35] <LaserJock> but yeah
[12:36] <minghua> what is the difference between Edubuntu and Ubuntu with kubuntu-desktop installed then?
[12:36] <imbrandon> ltsp and all the edu software
[12:36] <imbrandon> ( kubuntu dosent ship kdeu-* )
[12:36] <LaserJock> minghua: it's more like Ubuntu with KDEEdu installed on it
[12:37] <minghua> I see.  but I don't need LTSP.
[12:37] <pygi> minghua: install workstation then
[12:37] <pygi> but anyway, night all
[12:37] <minghua> I think I can try KDE Edu stuff in Ubuntu just fine.  But thanks for the explanations.
[12:38] <minghua> I have enough installation instances as is
[12:38] <LaserJock> minghua: I was just saying that because of your comment about running KDE apps on Gnome
[12:38] <minghua> LaserJock: I know.  But that really has nothing to do with distro choice
[12:38] <minghua> I use GNOME everywhere
[12:39] <minghua> I'm just familiar with it and know my way around
[12:39] <LaserJock> but I wasn't saying anything about that
[12:40] <minghua> what should I can the Ubuntu/Kubuntu/Edubuntu/Xubuntu difference if I can't call them different distros?
[12:40] <engla> siretart: hello. Can you sync the revu keyring? thanks
[12:40] <LaserJock> generally they are called "flavors" or "partner projects" :-)
[12:41] <LaserJock> but you apparently missed my joke or something
[12:41] <minghua> I think I get it now.
[12:41] <engla> ubuntu should arrange for a meeting place and a common name for 3rd-party (not supported) flavors. with a name that doesn't have -buntu in it
[12:41] <minghua> you are not really suggesting me to try Edubuntu, I suppose
[12:41] <LaserJock> no
[12:42] <LaserJock> I was merely pointing out that Edubuntu uses KDE apps on a Gnome desktop
[12:42] <lifeless> minghua: you can call them different distros :). They are technically derivative distros
[12:42] <LaserJock> lifeless: are they really though?
[12:42] <imbrandon> LaserJock: yes, they all have their own goals and such
[12:43] <LaserJock> but they come from the same repos
[12:43] <imbrandon> LaserJock: and dont HAVE to follow the same rules
[12:43] <lifeless> LaserJock: they are closer than many derivatives will be,
[12:43] <imbrandon> right they are close but still a derivtive
[12:43] <LaserJock> it's semantics I suppose, but I don't consider then derivatives
[12:43] <imbrandon> look at the fact like edubuntu dosent have a live cd, they dont HAVE to play by the same rules 100%
[12:44] <minghua> I think it's up to whether you call the whold ubuntu.com repo a distro or a meta-distro, then
[12:44] <LaserJock> imbrandon: they do have a live cd and the are bound by the same ruls
[12:44] <LaserJock> they are still governed by Ubuntu
[12:44] <minghua> I personally prefer "flavor"
[12:44] <LaserJock> me too
[12:44] <imbrandon> not really, even if you look at specs like composite by default, that has -0- effect on kubuntu
[12:44] <LaserJock> so
[12:45] <imbrandon> and other such "rules"
[12:45] <LaserJock> that's not a rule
[12:45] <minghua> one problem with "flavor", though, is there is just no proper translation in Chinese
[12:45] <imbrandon> like if ubuntu went to dvd distro only kubuntu wouldent have to foloow and vice versa
[12:45] <LaserJock> they are still governed by the same body and come from the same repos
[12:45] <minghua> we are already stretching the language a bit when translating "distribution" :-(
[12:45] <imbrandon> that doesnt make them the same distro
[12:45] <imbrandon> that makes ubuntu a meta
[12:46] <LaserJock> that's why I say it's semantic
[12:46] <LaserJock> I think distro means it comes from different repos
[12:46] <imbrandon> if that is the case then you could call mepis a "flavor" as it ueses our repos and such ;)
[12:46] <LaserJock> no they don't
[12:46] <imbrandon> LaserJock: no
[12:46] <imbrandon> sure they do
[12:46] <minghua> mepis has there own additional repo
[12:46] <imbrandon> look at their sources.list
[12:47] <LaserJock> they "derive" from our repo
[12:47] <imbrandon> minghua: right but thats only for the config, not the software
[12:47] <imbrandon> LaserJock: your confusing repo and distro, they derive from our distro
[12:47] <minghua> imbrandon: still, their configuration is not supported by Debian/Ubuntu (what are they using now?)
[12:47] <LaserJock> I'm not confusing, I'm more like equating
[12:47] <minghua> which makes things a bit different
[12:48] <imbrandon> well equating wrongly , thus i used the word confusing
[12:48] <imbrandon> :)
[12:48] <LaserJock> the upload rights, governence, and pretty much everything else is identical
[12:48] <imbrandon> minghua: that makes them not supported by canonical yes, but dosent make them any farther from ubuntu than nubuntu or kubuntu
[12:49] <LaserJock> the only difference is the end .iso
[12:49] <imbrandon> and the goals , thats is the main thing for a distro, its path to the goal
[12:49] <LaserJock> the goals are the same
[12:49] <LaserJock> it's Ubuntu
[12:49] <minghua> imbrandon: if an upload in ubuntu breaks a KDE package, we should fix it, right?
[12:49] <imbrandon> no not 100%, they are very similar
[12:50] <minghua> imbrandon: not so if it breaks some mepis config, I suppose
[12:50] <imbrandon> minghua: that is a side effect of useing the same repo, not the same distro
[12:50] <minghua> imbrandon: you call it side effect, I call it a main difference, I think we can agree to disagree then
[12:51] <imbrandon> point being that even canonical them self says they are derivtives , thus diffrent distros
[12:51] <minghua> I don't really mind the terminology (meta-distro/distro or distro/flavor), but I think the ubuntu-kubuntu connection is much more tight
[12:51] <LaserJock> imbrandon: I'm not sure that they do, they call them "partner projects"
[12:51] <minghua> compared with other derivative relationships
[12:51] <imbrandon> yes very tight, but that still doesnet make them the same
[12:52] <LaserJock> well no, we never said they were the same
[12:52] <LaserJock> they are obviously different
[12:52] <minghua> no point to argue about semantics, I think
[12:52] <imbrandon> http://www.ubuntu.com/download/derivatives
[12:52] <imbrandon> LaserJock: ^^
[12:53] <imbrandon> they are all deritives, just some are "supported" by canonical
[12:53] <LaserJock> well whatever
[12:53] <LaserJock> I don't call them derivatives
[12:53] <LaserJock> because I don't feel that they are
[12:53] <LaserJock> that's fine
[12:53] <imbrandon> i was just pointing out what you said canonical say they didnet :)
[12:53] <imbrandon> but they do
[12:54] <imbrandon> ( along with the long list of others )
[12:54] <LaserJock> well, Canonical people have told me that they aren't using that term
[12:54] <LaserJock> but I don't know
[12:54] <imbrandon> heheh someone should inform the webmaster then :)
[12:55] <minghua> I suppose not everyone has the same opinion inside canonical
[12:55] <imbrandon> probably not
[12:55] <LaserJock> well, it's not an easy thing to do
[12:55] <imbrandon> just as we dont, it dosent make any of us wrong, thats the good thing
[12:55] <LaserJock> "derivative" is the common word
[12:55] <LaserJock> but Ubuntu is a bit unique in this respect
[12:56] <imbrandon> well if its ubuntu but not the "offical" ubuntu that ships on the cd it was then derived from it , thus a dirvitive
[12:56] <imbrandon> just as ubuntu is derived from debian
[12:56] <imbrandon> even though we share ALOT of packages
[12:56] <LaserJock> well, but it's all Ubuntu
[12:56] <LaserJock> and it's broken down into various "flavors"
[12:57] <imbrandon> no its not anymore ubuntu and ubuntu is debian
[12:57] <imbrandon> s/and/than
[12:57] <LaserJock> what the heck?
[12:57] <imbrandon> ubuntu shares over 10k packages unmodified from debian , does that make us a debian "flavor"
[12:57] <LaserJock> no
[12:57] <LaserJock> becuase we have seperate repos
[12:57] <LaserJock> seperate governence
[12:58] <LaserJock> seperate lots of things
[12:58] <imbrandon> again a repo dosent make a distro, look at lfs and gentoo, there is no REPO
[12:58] <LaserJock> I'm not saying it's *just* the repo
[12:58] <engla> how many of the packages in the default install are pure debian syncs?
[12:58] <LaserJock> but that is a significant thing
[12:58] <imbrandon> so does edubuntu and kubuntu each have their own CC, but answer to the CC
[12:58] <LaserJock> yes
[12:58] <LaserJock> the CC and TB are the ultimate governence
[12:59] <minghua> engla: depends on the flavor/distro your default install is :-P
[12:59] <imbrandon> so they essentialy have diffrent governace too
[12:59] <LaserJock> hell no
[12:59] <minghua> engla: but I'll estimate 30% for ubuntu, just a wild guess though
[12:59] <LaserJock> the Ubuntu CC has deligated to team CCs
[12:59] <engla> ok, just interesting
[12:59] <LaserJock> that's completely different then Debian/Ubuntu
[12:59] <imbrandon> sure, the only time the CC steps in is if it affect ubuntu , if it only effects kubuntu then they have no say
[12:59] <LaserJock> no
[01:00] <imbrandon> sure, i sat in on the BoF for all the deligated CC teams , thats exactly what happens
[01:00] <LaserJock> the CC has no say if it affects kubuntu? that completely wrong
[01:00] <imbrandon> no i dident say that
[01:01] <LaserJock> "if it only effects kubuntu then they have no say"
[01:01] <imbrandon> i said if KCC makes a decession , the CC dosent ovride that unless it effects ubuntu
[01:01] <LaserJock> that's wrong too
[01:01] <LaserJock> they *can*
[01:01] <imbrandon> howso ?
[01:01] <LaserJock> they choose not to
[01:01] <imbrandon> no they cant, not as part of their promis to the community
[01:02] <LaserJock> where are you getting this?
[01:02] <engla> imbrandon: no admins seem to be here, nonidling
[01:02] <LaserJock> I was at the BOFs
[01:02] <imbrandon> LaserJock: mostly from the BoF's and prior CC meetigs from memory
[01:02] <imbrandon> that last part from marks mouth
[01:02] <LaserJock> they CC and TB have ultimate authority, period
[01:03] <LaserJock> s/they/the/
[01:03] <LaserJock> well, if you discount mark's veto ;-)
[01:03] <imbrandon> right but they have limits too
[01:03] <LaserJock> only that they make themselves
[01:03] <imbrandon> right and have done so
[01:03] <LaserJock> fine
[01:03] <LaserJock> they could also take that away
[01:03] <LaserJock> it wouldn't be nice, but they could
[01:04] <LaserJock> because they are the higher governing body
[01:04] <imbrandon> not without breaking a promis to the community that would cause chaos
[01:04] <ajmitch> all delegations of power can be revoked
[01:04] <imbrandon> ajmitch: not the deligation
[01:04] <ajmitch> imbrandon: if it were absolutely necessary, it would be done
[01:04] <LaserJock> what I'm trying to say is that the CC and KCC are not equal
[01:04] <imbrandon> LaserJock: i never said they were
[01:04] <LaserJock> the CC may delegate to the KCC
[01:05] <imbrandon> zomg you are missing the whole point now
[01:05] <LaserJock> but I'm trying to say that it is not like Debian/Ubuntu
[01:05] <imbrandon> its not, but that dosent make it and less a deritive
[01:05] <LaserJock> Debian and Ubuntu have different "sovergn" governing bodies
[01:05] <imbrandon> and thats the whole point
[01:05] <LaserJock> I think that is part of what makes a derivative
[01:05] <ajmitch> they they can take their ball & go home when they see fit?
[01:05] <engla> ajmitch: hello. Can you sync the revu keyring? thank you
[01:05] <LaserJock> governence, upload rights, and repos are a big part
[01:06] <LaserJock> I can upload Kubuntu packages in Universe if I want
[01:06] <LaserJock> because my upload rights are to Universe
[01:06] <imbrandon> not in what makes a distro, look at the overall picture here, your looking at ubuntu / debian only
[01:06] <ajmitch> engla: already doing it
[01:07] <imbrandon> lfs has no repo, or upload rights, same with slax , gentoo , suse etc etc etc etc , those qualities are for us only
[01:07] <imbrandon> thus cannot detrrmine a distro
[01:07] <LaserJock> imbrandon: not only, but give me another derivative where they derivative shares governence, repos, uploadrights
[01:07] <LaserJock> s/they/the/
[01:07] <imbrandon> LaserJock: the multitude of debian deritives
[01:07] <LaserJock> no
[01:07] <imbrandon> all the LFS deritives
[01:07] <imbrandon> BLFS etc
[01:08] <imbrandon> there are others
[01:08] <imbrandon> again you have to look at the whole
[01:08] <LaserJock> well, I'm not sure about LFS
[01:08] <LaserJock> I am
[01:08] <imbrandon> what makes a distro , not the inner workings
[01:08] <engla> ajmitch: great thanks
[01:08] <LaserJock> what makes a distro, IMO, is the governence, repos/uploadrights
[01:09] <imbrandon> right and like i said those are ubuntu only qualities, so what makes gentoo diffrent from fedora
[01:09] <ajmitch> synced now
[01:09] <LaserJock> governence, uploadrights, repos
[01:09] <engla> thks
[01:09] <LaserJock> same things
[01:09] <LaserJock> if I were to make a derivative of Gentoo today
[01:09] <imbrandon> if you look at what makes ubuntu diffrent from debian ( not the inner workings )( and what makes gentoo diffrent from suse, ubuntu and kubuntu share the same diffrences
[01:10] <LaserJock> will they let me commit an ebuild to their repo?
[01:10] <imbrandon> sure
[01:10] <LaserJock> umm, no
[01:10] <imbrandon> if you set it up that way
[01:10] <LaserJock> exactly
[01:10] <LaserJock> but in order to do it
[01:10] <imbrandon> why not? i can commit to debian and redhat
[01:10] <LaserJock> I would have to become a part of gentoo
[01:10] <LaserJock> and fall under it's rules
[01:10] <LaserJock> it's policies
[01:10] <LaserJock> it's governence
[01:10] <imbrandon> so with that thinking every DD in ubuntu isnt really a ubuntu person ?
[01:11] <imbrandon> no
[01:11] <LaserJock> ?
[01:11] <LaserJock> why would I think that?
[01:11] <imbrandon> like i said step away from the inner working s of how the distro is made, what makes suse diffrent from gentoo?
[01:11] <imbrandon> you will find those same diffrences in kubuntun and ubuntu
[01:11] <imbrandon> THATS what makes a deritive
[01:11] <LaserJock> not most of them
[01:12] <LaserJock> I'm not saying kubuntu and ubuntu are the same
[01:12] <imbrandon> it dosent take most, it only takes 1
[01:12] <LaserJock> no
[01:12] <imbrandon> to be derived from the original
[01:12] <LaserJock> I disagree
[01:12] <imbrandon> so i can change something in ubuntu and call it ubuntnu ? and not a ubuntu deritive ?
[01:13] <imbrandon> ubuntnu is not whats in the repo, its whats on the CD
[01:13] <imbrandon> there is alot more than whats ubuntu in the repo
[01:13] <imbrandon> infact alot of the repo is debian
[01:13] <LaserJock> sure
[01:13] <LaserJock> Ubuntu is a Debian derivative
[01:13] <LaserJock> so it share quite a bit of the same software
[01:14] <imbrandon> exactly, and if i take a ubuntu cd and chage the wallpaper on it, it then becomes a deritive, no matter how small the change
[01:14] <LaserJock> I wouldn't call that a derivative if it was done in the Ubuntu repos
[01:14] <imbrandon> ubuntu is NOT whats in the repo, its whats on the CD
[01:14] <LaserJock> i beg to differ :-)
[01:15] <zul> heh fight fight fight
[01:15] <LaserJock> ;-)
[01:15] <imbrandon> so i can hand you a kubuntu cd and tell you to install ubuntnu ?
[01:15] <imbrandon> that makes -0- sense
[01:15] <LaserJock> ubuntnu?
[01:15] <imbrandon> i might as well hand you a gentoo cd and say install kubuntu
[01:15] <imbrandon> typo
[01:15] <LaserJock> oh, then yes
[01:16] <LaserJock> I run Edubuntu and Kubuntu on my machine
[01:16] <LaserJock> I didn't use 2 discs
[01:16] <imbrandon> no it shares alot of the same software ( as does ubuntu and debian ) but is not the same end product
[01:16] <LaserJock> there are different products for sure
[01:16] <imbrandon> then what do ytou call two products based on the same software ? deritives
[01:17] <LaserJock> but in the same way a company can produces different products I don't think it's a stretch to say that a single distro can produce multiple products
[01:17] <LaserJock> many distros have various "flavors"
[01:17] <LaserJock> different .isos
[01:17] <imbrandon> a flavor is a deritive by definition
[01:17] <imbrandon> based on the same thing but diffrent
[01:18] <LaserJock> it depends on how you look at it
[01:18] <LaserJock> which brings us here :-)
[01:18] <LaserJock> I think of derivative is a seperate linear progression
[01:18] <imbrandon> right, maybe to the same goal , mabye not, but still derived from the same source
[01:18] <LaserJock> whereas a flavor is variation within a single "thing"
[01:19] <imbrandon> dosent mean the paths are the same
[01:19] <LaserJock> yeah
[01:19] <LaserJock> I'll go with you there
[01:19] <LaserJock> my point for this is:
[01:19] <imbrandon> so you just said by your own definition that kubuntu is a deritive
[01:19] <LaserJock> I was calling *buntu derivatives
[01:19] <LaserJock> but I realized that we really should have a distinction
[01:20] <LaserJock> between a Debian/Ubuntu type derivative and a Ubuntu/Kubuntu/Edubuntu/* kind of derivative
[01:20] <LaserJock> as there are important distinctions we need to make as a project
[01:20] <imbrandon> they are, they share the same base , and very very similar goals , but not the same path to get there, thus are derived from the base
[01:20] <LaserJock> sure
[01:21] <LaserJock> all I'm arguing is semantics and how we bring this to the public
[01:22] <LaserJock> an issue I see all the time is people saying "all this *buntu,  it's so harmful to Linux"
[01:22] <imbrandon> well i think your trying to change the meaning of the word deritive, we shouldent do that as a project, they are by definition both deritives, BUT if you think as a project we should use another distinction then i'll bite
[01:22] <LaserJock> right, that's why I said, I call it a flavor
[01:22] <imbrandon> well flavor is even worse
[01:22] <imbrandon> heh
[01:23] <LaserJock> technically they can be called derivatives
[01:23] <LaserJock> I think flavor is closer, although not perfect
[01:23] <imbrandon> because we're then a "flavor" of linux
[01:23] <imbrandon> not ubuntu or debian
[01:23] <engla> ajmitch: my first upload doesn't appear on revu, but now even after the keychain sync, It says it can't upload the files (says probably they are already there) does that mean problems, or will the package dragbox be processed?
[01:23] <imbrandon> flavor is broader, but essential the same arguemnt
[01:24] <imbrandon> engla: remove the .upload fiel from that dir and try again
[01:24] <imbrandon> file*
[01:24] <engla> imbrandon: it's not that
[01:24] <LaserJock> well, I think of derivative as a definate split (different communities, different governence, etc.)
[01:24] <engla> it's a ftp error 553, so it's in the remote end
[01:24] <LaserJock> and flavors as different packaging
[01:24] <LaserJock> you know I love you dude ;-)
[01:25] <ajmitch> engla: please make sure you upload source-only packages in future
[01:25] <imbrandon> heheh
[01:25] <engla> ajmitch: okay. I didn't expect it to include the .deb, so I didn't know. I'll remember
[01:26] <imbrandon> engla: the wiki tells you to upload the buld that uses -S -sa ( source only upload )
[01:27] <engla> oh well. I had the correct file set, but one file too many. sure. But I didn't expect it to grab the binary file. After all, I didn't tell it to grab it, I only pointed it to the .dsc
[01:28] <imbrandon> ajmitch: btw , lrm and friends are installable now
[01:37] <LaserJock> imbrandon: coolio
[01:40] <nixternal> hola compadres!
[01:44] <lastnode> hey nixternal
[01:46] <nixternal> hiya lastnode
[02:07] <rmjb> hey guys, your advice
[02:07] <rmjb> for a vm for testing of packages, vmware or xen?
[02:08] <zul> depends on what you run im partial to xen myself
[02:09] <rmjb> the main thing I'll want to do it to be able to revert to a fresh install, can do that in vmware with snapshots, xen has anything like that?
[02:18] <zul> i have never used it but i would also go with what you have experience with
[02:19] <superjon> How do you add the $Id: line in a file under svn? Is that autogenerated somehow via macro expansion or something?
[02:19] <rmjb> zul: yeah, I figure I'll stick with the vmware for now... maybe by feisty's time I'll be comfortable with xen
[02:21] <crimsun> imbrandon: debian 398666
[02:21] <Ubugtu> Debian bug 398666 in flashplugin-nonfree "flashplugin-nonfree: download or license refused" [Grave,Closed]  http://bugs.debian.org/398666
[02:21] <crimsun> imbrandon: which debconf interface is that install using?
[02:22] <crimsun> StevenK: thanks.
[02:22] <crimsun> gnomefreak: yes
[02:22] <fbond> superjon, don't believe svn will do that for you.  It's not CVS.  See http://svnbook.red-bean.com/ .
[02:23] <superjon> fbond: So how does that line get generated for files that are under version control like cvs
[02:24] <fbond> Not sure.  Never used CVS.
[02:24] <fbond> I think it comes from rcs or something
[02:24] <fbond> The text manipulation isn't complicated.
[02:25] <fbond> What are you looking for?
[02:25] <fbond> maybe you want #svn
[02:26] <minghua> superjon: it will get auto-generated if you tell svn to
[02:27] <fbond> minghua, how does one tell svn to do that?  been using svn for a while, didn't know that was a possibility.
[02:27] <joejaxx> anyone here good with rsync?
[02:27] <Hawkwind> joejaxx: What are you wanting to know ?
[02:28] <joejaxx> chron_: i need to know how to rsync a file off a remote server to the local directory
[02:28] <fbond> minghua, at least, svn won't do $Revision
[02:28] <joejaxx> without useing -e ssh
[02:28] <joejaxx> using*
[02:29] <Hawkwind> rsync -avze ssh --delete user@domain.com:/some/path/on/server /your/path/here
[02:29] <minghua> fbond: http://svnbook.red-bean.com/en/1.2/svn.advanced.props.html#svn.advanced.props.special.keywords
[02:29] <Hawkwind> I'd leve out the --delete at first til you know what you want is right
[02:30] <minghua> fbond: and according to that page it does $Revision$
[02:30] <joejaxx> Hawkwind: without using ssh
[02:30] <minghua> (unless you are using a different version of svn, I remember the accepted keywords changed somehow)
[02:30] <fbond> minghua, ah, just found that myself.  sorry.
[02:31] <Hawkwind> joejaxx: rsync -rltvHz rsync://domain.com/some/path/on/server /your/path/here
[02:31] <Hawkwind> joejaxx: Need to make sure port 873 is opened/forwarded and /etc/rsyncd.conf is setup correctly
[02:31] <joejaxx> uh
[02:31] <Hawkwind> rsync and xinetd both need to be running, since rsync is a process of xinetd
[02:32] <joejaxx> Hawkwind: does rsyncd run on ubuntu by default?
[02:32] <Hawkwind> joejaxx: AFAIK it doesn't
[02:32] <joejaxx> Hawkwind: i need rsync to act like wget really
[02:32] <Hawkwind> joejaxx: I don't run an rsync server on my *Ubuntu box though.  It's all done on Mandriva
[02:33] <minghua> ubuntu shouldn't run any server be default
[02:33] <joejaxx> Hawkwind: i can rsync local directories fine
[02:33] <Hawkwind> joejaxx: rsync is actually very very simple
[02:33] <joejaxx> Hawkwind: i need to rsync an iso from one remote webserver to local
[02:33] <joejaxx> Hawkwind: but the remote does not run rsyncd
[02:33] <joejaxx> Hawkwind: should i just use wget?
[02:33] <Hawkwind> joejaxx: It has to or you are forced to use ssh
[02:34] <Hawkwind> joejaxx: Which was the first command I gave you
[02:34] <joejaxx> Hawkwind: oh ok
[02:34] <joejaxx> i thought so but i was not sure
[02:34] <Hawkwind> I do most all of my rsyncs with ssh, makes life easier
[02:34] <joejaxx> how does rsync work locally then without rsyncd?
[02:34] <Hawkwind> Locally it doesn't need anything, because it's local
[02:34] <joejaxx> ah ok
[02:35] <Hawkwind> Hopefully that makes sense
[02:35] <Hawkwind> Hah
[02:35] <minghua> by reading the file system, I suppose?
[02:35] <Hawkwind> It's once you go out of your box to any other box, be it local LAN or internet
[02:35] <dooglus> JordiGH: type "mplayer dvd://1" to play DVDs
[02:35] <Hawkwind> minghua: Basically, yes
[02:48] <lifepositive> dooglus: why does my DVD drive takes ages to backup a CD?  i mean it takes 30mins per 5mins track
[02:48] <fernando> hi all
[02:48] <joejaxx> lifepositive: DMA?
[02:49] <joejaxx> hello fernando
[02:49] <lifepositive> joejaxx: DMA is ON
[02:49] <lifepositive> joejaxx: any other ideas?
[02:50] <joejaxx> hmm
[02:50] <joejaxx> no i do not :(
[02:50] <zul> meh i think im going to watch uhf
[02:51] <dooglus> lifepositive: I've no idea.  I never tried doing that.
[02:53] <Hawkwind> joejaxx: Get your rsync going ?
[02:53] <dooglus> anyway, what am I doing here?  I thought this was #debian!
[02:53] <joejaxx> Hawkwind: its a public server which is why i could not use ssh
[02:53] <joejaxx> Hawkwind: i just used wget
[02:53] <Hawkwind> joejaxx: Ah ok
[02:53] <lifepositive> dooglus: ok
[03:40] <imbrandon> ...
[03:41] <ajmitch> !?
[03:43] <ajmitch> boring?
[03:43] <imbrandon> yea
[03:43] <ajmitch> heh
[03:44] <imbrandon> anyhow, packing up, on my way home
[03:44] <ajmitch> bye
[03:44] <bddebian> Gnight imbrandon
[03:44] <ajmitch> glad you could grace us with your presence, even if only for a few minutes
[03:44] <ajmitch> hello bddebian
[03:44] <bddebian> Heya ajmitch
[04:22] <LaserJock> hi bddebian
[04:23] <bddebian> Heya LaserJock
[04:25] <LaserJock> bddebian: how've you been?
[04:26] <bddebian> Wiped man.  You?
[04:26] <LaserJock> same
[04:26] <LaserJock> my lab flooded today
[04:26] <LaserJock> amongst other things
[04:31] <rmjb> where are you LaserJock, in AU also?
[04:33] <LaserJock> rmjb: hehe, no
[04:33] <bddebian> LaserJock: I saw that.. Bummer man :-(
[04:33] <LaserJock> rmjb: western US
[04:34] <LaserJock> bddebian: it was kinda funny, at least it wasn't my fault :-)
[04:34] <rmjb> oh... well flooding anywhere sucks... unless the place had a drought
[04:35] <bddebian> LaserJock: You mean you didn't burn a hole in some water pipes with your laser? ;-)
[04:36] <LaserJock> bddebian: no
[04:36] <LaserJock> I did cook a vacuum pump though :/
[04:36] <bddebian> doh
[05:21] <knix> Are there any plans to build mpd with aac/mp4 support?
[05:22] <crimsun> no.
[05:22] <Burgundavia> mpd
[05:22] <crimsun> this is the second time it has been asked.
[05:22] <Burgundavia> !mpd
[05:22] <ubotu> mpd: Music Player Daemon. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.12.1-1ubuntu1 (edgy), package size 123 kB, installed size 392 kB
[05:22] <Burgundavia> universe stuff cannot depend on multiverse
[05:33] <LaserJock> wb ajmitch
[06:26] <Burgundavia> imbrandon: you around?
[06:52] <imbrandon> Burgundavia: pong
[06:52] <imbrandon> i am now
[06:52] <imbrandon> just got home from our lug meeting
[06:52] <Burgundavia> imbrandon: got time to write up a bit of the KDE-related uploads for UWN?
[06:52] <imbrandon> Burgundavia: sure, let me just grab a soda and settle into my chair, then i can
[06:52] <Burgundavia> ok
[07:42] <LaserJock> wow
[07:43] <crimsun> good time to do so, I might add.
[07:43] <LaserJock> yeah, I just saw something on the forums
[07:43] <LaserJock> I knew I shouldn't have looked at the feisty subforum
[07:43] <crimsun> imbrandon: did you resolve the debconf issue?
[07:43] <LaserJock> stupid me
[07:44] <imbrandon> crimsun: kinda but not really
[07:44] <crimsun> aka "no".
[07:44] <imbrandon> i removeed it and reinstalled it but still had another issue
[07:44] <crimsun> ...which is?
[07:44] <imbrandon> but i'm not at that computer atm
[07:44] <imbrandon> but i have it saved in a txt file for you
[07:44] <imbrandon> for when i do get back to it
[07:44] <crimsun> please file a bug report, thanks
[07:44] <imbrandon> k
[07:45] <imbrandon> btw heya crimsun :)
[07:45] <imbrandon> ( and LaserJock )
[07:45] <crimsun> 'lo
[07:54] <StevenK> imbrandon: What gave you the impression I knew anything about TCL? :-P
[07:54] <imbrandon> StevenK: wasent it you that does TLC for a job ?
[07:54] <imbrandon> i probably was mistaken
[07:54] <imbrandon> TCL*
[07:54] <StevenK> About the only thing I can say about TCL is that I can spell it.
[07:55] <imbrandon> hahah ok i was mistaken then :)
[07:55] <imbrandon> someone in here programs with it for a living, i just forgot who, thought it was you
[07:59] <dholbach> good morning
[08:02] <elkbuntu> hi dholbach :)
[08:02] <StevenK> elkbuntu: Must have been something you said.
[08:03] <elkbuntu> StevenK, must have been :(
[08:03] <elkbuntu> woohoo
[08:03] <StevenK> elkbuntu: *hint*
[08:03] <elkbuntu> dholbach, hi again.. please dont run away this time :
[08:04] <dholbach> hey elkbuntu
[08:04] <elkbuntu> yay!
[08:06] <imbrandon> heya dholbach
[08:07] <dholbach> hey imbrandon
[08:21] <ajmitch> yay
[08:26] <Burgundavia> ajmitch: I had a hard lock today
[08:27] <ajmitch> unfortunate
[08:27] <ajmitch> but I just booted as far as initramfs failing with a xen kernel
[08:27] <ajmitch> which is some progress
[08:27] <Burgundavia> probably caused by gobby
[08:28] <ajmitch> hm, it'd be nice if compiz ran
[08:28] <ajmitch> since I went to the effort of upgrading to the latest l-r-m
[08:35] <crimsun> imbrandon: ping, do you have a feisty/i386 pbuilder (alternately, a possible ssh acct to one)?
[08:35] <Burgundavia> crimsun: do you need access to one?
[08:35] <crimsun> Burgundavia: I'd like to have access to one, yes
[08:36] <Burgundavia> how urgent is the need?
[08:36] <imbrandon> crimsun: yes
[08:36] <imbrandon> one sec lemme setup the account
[08:36] <crimsun> Burgundavia: not critical, just need it for building packages that I can test locally before I chuck the source at soyuz
[08:40] <minghua> Ugh.  This firefox password manager bug is really nasty.
[08:41] <Burgundavia> welcome to FF
[08:44] <nixternal> anyone up on revu'ing -> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3518 <- thanks!
[08:46] <Burgundavia> nixternal: ever hopeful
[08:46] <nixternal> gotta be ;)
[08:46] <nixternal> since the doc side of things is slow, might as well spend my time doing something constructive, instead of destructive
[08:55] <nixternal> patching file ./Modules/FindQt4.cmake
[08:55] <nixternal> Unreversed patch detected!  Ignore -R? [n]
[08:55] <nixternal> ey?
[08:55] <ajmitch> crimsun: if you could stand a slowish connection, I've got one as well
[09:00] <minghua> It's not easy to get a login on a sparc machine, is it?  As I have a build failure only on sparc (or ia64/sparc/hppa on Debian).
[09:02] <ajmitch> minghua: not currently easy
[09:03] <ajmitch> you'd have to hunt around for a friendly hacker with ubuntu on sparc
[09:04] <minghua> thanks for the answer.  I think I'll leave it to the Debian maintainer then :-P
[09:05] <ajmitch> so the bug exists on debian as well?
[09:05] <ajmitch> imbrandon: ping
[09:09] <minghua> yes.  some segfault of a binary built by its own.
[09:09] <minghua> a bit curious that the same segfault happens on Debian/ia64 but not on Ubuntu/ia64 though
[09:12] <imbrandon> ajmitch: pong
[09:13] <imbrandon> minghua: what about ubuntu/hppa ?
[09:13] <ajmitch> imbrandon: got working, sane beryl debs?
[09:13] <minghua> we have hppa?
[09:13] <ajmitch> not really
[09:14] <ajmitch> hppa has never quite been there
[09:14] <imbrandon> working isnt waht i would call it, but there are buildd's iirc
[09:14] <minghua> well, at least LP knows nothing about the buildd
[09:14] <imbrandon> ajmitch: no, i havent touched them since uds, guess i should
[09:14] <minghua> so I don't know either
[09:15] <imbrandon> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/feisty/hppa
[09:17] <minghua> it seems said package haven't be tried to built on hppa since June then, it seems
[09:18] <minghua> since May, actually
[09:18] <minghua> the June binary is just taken from dapper when edgy opened
[09:23] <nixternal> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3519   <- needs some revu loving. Thanks!
[09:25] <ajmitch> more revu spam...
[09:25] <ajmitch> sigh :)
[09:25] <nixternal> hehe
[09:25] <ajmitch> a -1ubuntu1 version
[09:25] <ajmitch> so why is this on revu?
[09:25] <ajmitch> it's best to put updates to existing packages as debdiffs on malone
[09:26] <nixternal> it was in the merge list, and i grabbed it
[09:26] <imbrandon> revu is mainly only for NEW stuff though
[09:26] <imbrandon> malone for sponsor stuff
[09:26] <Fujitsu> nixternal: That's one of mine, and was waiting on a dependency last time I checked.
[09:26] <Fujitsu> (I have an upload prepared already)
[09:26] <nixternal> roger Fujitsu, ignore that then
[09:27] <crimsun> rich floats and is a witch, burn him!
[09:27] <ajmitch> general practice is that the person who touched it last does it, unless you contact them & get ok
[09:27] <imbrandon> hehe
[09:28] <nixternal> roger
[09:28] <ajmitch> just to avoid the duplication of effort like in this case
[09:28] <imbrandon> ok my eyes are closing, back in a few /me needs a small nap
[09:34] <ajmitch> hello lloydinho_
[09:47] <lloydinho_> hey ajmitch!
[12:16] <Fujitsu> Morning, Hobbsee.
[12:17] <Hobbsee> hey Fujitsu.  it's not morning.
[12:17] <Fujitsu> Close enough.
[12:18] <Hobbsee> heh
[12:23] <StevenK> Fujitsu: Like you see morning until you get up.
[12:24] <Fujitsu> Maybe.
[12:59] <\sh> moins
[02:37] <joejaxx> hey everyone
[02:38] <joejaxx> does bcm43xx cutter work with the pci broadcom cards? ie the firmware is bcmw15a instead of bcmwl5
[02:38] <joejaxx> i forget whether bcm cutter is specific to the bcmwl5
[02:38] <joejaxx> or not
[03:19] <zul_> argh is the filter devel-list coming anytime soon?
[03:34] <jonh_wendell> Hi, folks
[03:35] <jonh_wendell> can someone have a look at fala - https://launchpad.net/products/fala for universe?
[03:37] <slytherin> jonh_wendell: Have you developed it?
[03:37] <jonh_wendell> slytherin, yes
[03:37] <slytherin> jonh_wendell: SO you want help from one of the motus to package it, right?
[03:38] <jonh_wendell> hmmm, i'm not a motu, how can i help?
[03:39] <jonh_wendell> slytherin, is it possible fala get in universe?
[03:39] <slytherin> jonh_wendell: Neither am I. I am trying to be one.
[03:39] <geser> you can package it, upload it to revu and let someome review it
[03:39] <slytherin> jonh_wendell: Sure it is possible. You will have to learn the packaging and upload it to revu.
[03:40] <jonh_wendell> slytherin, it's already packaged (in .deb)
[03:40] <geser> if all problems are fixed in your package a motu will sponsor the upload to universe
[03:40] <jonh_wendell> geser, it's already packaged (in .deb), how to upload it?
[03:41] <geser> !revu
[03:41] <ubotu> REVU is a web-based tool to give people who have worked on Ubuntu packages a chance to "put their packages out there" for other people to look at and comment on in a structured manner. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU
[03:52] <PriceChild> jonh_wendell: This came in a deb... You're not allowed to upload binary though. you may like to look at the time &  effort i'm making on my first package: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3503
[03:55] <dholbach> jonh_wendell: we only do source uploads - so you'll have to upload the .orig.tar.gz, the .dsc and the .diff.gz (debuild -S -sa and dput will help you there)
[03:55] <jonh_wendell> the problem is: i don't have an orig.tar.gz. I developed this app for ubuntu...
[03:56] <jonh_wendell> orig.tar.gz == directory minus debian dir ?
[03:57] <gnomefreak> is flash 9 still beta?
[03:57] <slytherin> jonh_wendell: Assuming that it uses make for build compile, make dist should create tarball.
[03:57] <jonh_wendell> slytherin, i don't use autoconf stuff
[03:58] <bddebian> Heya gang
[04:00] <jonh_wendell> dholbach,  the problem is: i don't have an orig.tar.gz. I developed this app for ubuntu...
[04:00] <jonh_wendell> dholbach,  orig.tar.gz == directory minus debian dir ?
[04:00] <dholbach> jonh_wendell: just make a tarball without debian/ and call it project_version.orig.tar.gz
[04:00] <dholbach> yes
[04:00] <jonh_wendell> right
[04:08] <PriceChild> jonh_wendell: You'll have to still check the debian on your normall tar to ensure its up to standards.
[04:08] <PriceChild> It may not be as easy as just uploading it
[04:08] <jonh_wendell> :)
[04:15] <jonh_wendell> i'm getting trouble with sign of package... http://pastebin.com/830602
[04:20] <jonh_wendell> any idea?
[04:21] <geser> are you using gpg-agent?
[04:21] <geser> if yes, try without gpg-agent
[04:24] <jonh_wendell> geser, did you mean ssh-agent?
[04:24] <geser> no, gpg-agent
[04:25] <jonh_wendell> geser, how to disable it? i don't know if i'm using it
[04:25] <geser> if you use it you have a line "use-agent" in your gpg.conf
[04:28] <jonh_wendell> geser, it passed
[04:28] <jonh_wendell> geser, thanks, let's go to the next step!
[04:31] <jonh_wendell> package uploaded
[04:31] <jonh_wendell> and now?
[04:32] <jonh_wendell> must i login at motu web page?
[04:35] <jonh_wendell> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3522
[04:36] <jonh_wendell> i'm going to lunch, i'll be back sooner
[04:38] <teledyn> hello, i want to take the ubuntu 2.6.17-10-generic source and customize it.
[04:39] <teledyn> there are several problems.  one is i don't see a .config.
[04:39] <teledyn> so where do i go about customizing it with my own config?
[04:42] <teledyn> and should i try using apt-build instead?
[05:19] <teledyn> ah i think i figured it out
[05:59] <jonh_wendell> can someone review http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3522 ?
[06:01] <Adri2000> jonh_wendell: I'm not a motu but: first the version is wrong, it should be 0.1-0ubuntu1
[06:02] <lucas> also, you seem to be doing nasty things with .svn dirs
[06:02] <lucas> they should not be in the package
[06:02] <nixternal> ya, just noticed the .svn
[06:02] <nixternal> for the scr/ data/ and po/ probably need to poke the dev and let them know about it..but the debian/.svn gets me
[06:02] <joejaxx> nixternal: the real amount of memory being used is : used - cached = real amount right?
[06:03] <Adri2000> jonh_wendell: the debian directory is from you of from upstream?
[06:03] <nixternal> hrmm...that sounds right
[06:03] <joejaxx> nixternal: oh alright
[06:03] <jonh_wendell> Adri2000, yes, that package is for ubuntu
[06:03] <lucas> your debian/copyright file is wrong. refer to other examples
[06:04] <Adri2000> jonh_wendell: so why debian/.svn/ ?
[06:04] <jonh_wendell> Adri2000, i have do delete it...
[06:04] <Adri2000> jonh_wendell: you used subversion when making the package maybe?
[06:04] <Adri2000> yes, sure, shouldn't be there
[06:05] <joejaxx> nixternal: alright thanks
[06:05] <Adri2000> jonh_wendell: also, debian/compat should be 5 and build-dep on debhelper should be >= 5.0.0
[06:06] <nixternal> joejaxx: what about the physical memory though?
[06:06] <nixternal> physical memory + cached - used?
[06:06] <nixternal> actually, nevermind, im thinking on a virtual perspective there
[06:07] <jonh_wendell> lucas, can i get as example any debian/copyright from any package?
[06:08] <jonh_wendell> Adri2000, how do i change version to 0.1-0ubuntu1?
[06:08] <Adri2000> in the changelog entry
[06:08] <joejaxx> nixternal: used - cached = the real amount of ram being used
[06:08] <lucas> jonh_wendell: look in /usr/share/doc/
[06:08] <nixternal> got it
[06:09] <lucas> lots of them in it
[06:09] <jonh_wendell> lucas, right
[06:09] <Adri2000> jonh_wendell: ala (0.1-1) unstable should be ala (0.1-0ubuntu1) feisty
[06:09] <nixternal> joejaxx: than i would have to say that is correct
[06:09] <Adri2000> +f (fala)
[06:09] <joejaxx> nixternal: alright thanks
[06:12] <Adri2000> jonh_wendell: the date of the changelog seems wrong, 1 september... standards-version should be <IP_ADDRESS> iirc
[06:13] <Adri2000> jonh_wendell: for the copyright file, you can use dh_make -c gpl
[06:13] <Adri2000> jonh_wendell: are you using edgy or dapper?
[06:13] <jonh_wendell> Adri2000, edgy
[06:14] <Adri2000> the debhelper in edgy adds at the end of the copyright file something saying that you are the package, but "copyright holder" is upstream
[06:14] <Adri2000> s/package/packager/
[06:15] <jonh_wendell> Adri2000, dh_make not found
[06:15] <Adri2000> uh? how did you create all the files in debian/ ?
[06:15] <jonh_wendell> Adri2000, by hand
[06:16] <Adri2000> lol :p debhelper is your friend ;-) it is really helpful
[06:16] <Adri2000> sudo apt-get install it
[06:16] <pygi> sivang: ping
[06:17] <Adri2000> jonh_wendell: then restart your package at 0, get the upstream tarball, rename it (.orig.tar.gz), extract it, cd in the directory created, and use dh_make (see man dh_make) :)
[06:17] <jonh_wendell> Adri2000, i'm the upstream
[06:18] <Adri2000> ok, so in debian/copyright you are the "copyright holder"
[06:19] <jonh_wendell> Adri2000, yes
[06:23] <PriceChild> Hobbsee|Remote:  :D
[06:25] <joejaxx> Adri2000: dh_make is great :D
[06:26] <Adri2000> :p
[06:26] <jonh_wendell> Adri2000, Standards-Version: <IP_ADDRESS> iirc ??
[06:26] <Adri2000> yes, if i recall correctly it's <IP_ADDRESS>
[06:26] <jonh_wendell> with 'iirc' also?
[06:26] <joejaxx> if i recall correctly
[06:27] <joejaxx> if i recall correctly = iirc
[06:27] <jonh_wendell> ah
[06:27] <joejaxx> yeah do not worry it took me a while to get all the irc acronyms also
[06:27] <joejaxx> especially afaik
[06:28] <joejaxx> or whatever that one is
[06:31] <jonh_wendell> when i correct the error, just upload again?
[06:33] <jonh_wendell> Adri2000,  when i correct the errors, just upload again?
[06:33] <Adri2000> jonh_wendell: yes, with dput -f
[06:38] <jonh_wendell> can you check again: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3525
[06:44] <pygi> PriceChild: ping
[06:44] <PriceChild> hey pygi :)
[06:44] <PriceChild> How's things?
[06:45] <sivang> pygi: pong
[06:54] <jonh_wendell> Adri2000, lucas, geser, can you check it again: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3525
[06:55] <lucas> copyright still wrong
[06:57] <lucas> - you should link to /usr/share/doc/common-licences like other packages do
[06:57] <lucas> - the first paragraph ("This program is ...") is not correct english
[06:58] <lucas> your short description should not begin with "A" and is unclear, and your long description is too short
[06:58] <lucas> if similar software already exist, it would be great to state how this one is better/different
[06:59] <jonh_wendell> lucas, i did not understand what you mean 'link to ...'
[06:59] <Adri2000> jonh_wendell: use dh_make for the copyright file
[07:00] <lucas> use /usr/share/doc/coreutils/copyright as an example
[07:01] <lucas> you cannot say "either something" and not say "or something else"
[07:12] <jonh_wendell> lucas, is it correct now? http://pastebin.com/830748
[07:20] <jonh_wendell> Adri2000, i have used dh_make this time, can you check?
[07:20] <jonh_wendell> Adri2000, http://pastebin.com/830748
[07:22] <Adri2000> jonh_wendell: waiting for pastebin to load...
[07:22] <jonh_wendell> :)
[07:23] <Adri2000> jonh_wendell: yeah, seems fine, and you can remove the <> around the url
[07:24] <jonh_wendell> finally...
[07:25] <jonh_wendell> let's change the package description now...
[07:25] <jonh_wendell> Adri2000, lucas, geser anything else? more errors?
[07:26] <Adri2000> jonh_wendell: python policy :)
[07:26] <jonh_wendell> Adri2000, where?
[07:27] <Adri2000> http://www.debian.org/doc/packaging-manuals/python-policy/
[07:27] <Adri2000> http://wiki.debian.org/DebianPython/NewPolicy
[07:28] <jonh_wendell> Adri2000, do i have to do all those things?? oh no
[07:28] <Adri2000> ehehe, yes ^^
[07:34] <Aualin> Hi, i got some problems with REVU... When i shall decrypt my password i type my pass for gpg, and it goes fine. But i dont get anything expect what key i was using... Any ideas?
[07:41] <jonh_wendell> lucas, i see a lot of packages which short description starts with 'A'
[07:46] <lucas> your description is totally unclear
[07:47] <jonh_wendell> lucas, i agree :)
[07:48] <jonh_wendell> lucas, Adri2000, can you help me with a good description? the software is just a frontend to festival
[07:49] <lucas> aren't there other frontends for festival already ?
[07:49] <jonh_wendell> lucas, i found none, that's why i wrote this one
[07:50] <lucas> it just allows to read a text file ?
[07:50] <jonh_wendell> lucas, yes
[07:52] <lucas> what's the difference with festival --tts /etc/motd
[07:52] <lucas> ?
[07:53] <jonh_wendell> lucas, the gui
[07:53] <jonh_wendell> just the gui
[07:54] <lucas> so you have to mention this in the description
[07:54] <lucas> mmmh
[07:54] <lucas> what's the point of the GUI for festival, anyway ?
[07:54] <lucas> is it easy to use for blind people ?
[07:55] <lucas> I thought most blind people were using console apps because it was easier with braille terminals
[07:55] <jonh_wendell> lucas, i'm a brazilian guy. Sometimes we need to hear some word or phrase to understand
[07:55] <chantra_> hi there, does anybody is in charge of motu-reviewers mailing list?
[07:56] <lucas> ok
[07:56] <lucas> mmh, it's difficult to describe
[07:57] <jonh_wendell> :)
[07:57] <lucas> put pointing out this use case might be a good idea
[07:57] <jonh_wendell> the description in SF: A simple software that speaks a text. You can type the text or appoint a file. Fala is just a frontend to festival. It's designed for GNOME, but if you have gtk, pyhton and festival you are able to run it.
[07:57] <lucas> a description on sf.net is not necessarly good ;)
[07:58] <jonh_wendell> lucas, i wrote that one, anyway...
[07:58] <lucas> is it multi-lingual ?
[07:58] <jonh_wendell> lucas, yes
[08:00] <lucas> Description: graphical simple speech synthesis application
[08:01] <jonh_wendell> lucas, really? it's a very complicated description
[08:02] <lucas> it's just a suggestion
[08:02] <lucas> but you should probably use speech somewhere
[08:02] <lucas> look at festival's description
[08:09] <jonh_wendell> lucas, description: simple text reader (speech synthesis)
[08:09] <lucas> do what you want
[08:10] <jonh_wendell> lucas, can description have '(' and ')' ?
[08:12] <lucas> you would be the first, I think
[08:12] <lucas> not sure of my grep-dctrl expression tho
[08:13] <lucas> now I'm sure, and you would be the first
[08:13] <PriceChild> Hi there
[08:13] <lucas> even in the long description
[08:13] <PriceChild> ping: LaserJock
[08:16] <jonh_wendell> lucas, after correct those errors and upload again, what do i have to do? just wait?
[08:16] <lucas> wait for others to review it, yes
[08:17] <lucas> I don't review REVU packages
[08:18] <engla> I wonder. The lintian report on REVU is completely different from the report on my local machine
[08:18] <engla> *I wonder:
[08:19] <engla> now I get much more serious warnings from the revu lintian, how do I "equalise" their behaviour
[08:26] <jonh_wendell> lucas, ok, package uploaded, let's wait now
[08:26] <jonh_wendell> btw, how do i change my password in revu?
[08:30] <geser> jonh_wendell: I see fala is a python program, have you read the Debian python policy?
[08:33] <Sobert> Hi, how can I ask the motu-SRU team for a rebuild of libapache2-mod-mono ?
[08:34] <geser> what's the problem with this package?
[08:34] <Sobert> it's the wrong version
[08:34] <Sobert> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/mod-mono/+bug/65454/
[08:34] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 65454 in mod-mono "[UNMETDEPS]  mod-mono has unmet dependencies" [Undecided,Confirmed]
[08:35] <Sobert> it's version 1.1.13 instead of 1.1.17
[08:35] <geser> have you verified that a rebuild fixes it?
[08:36] <Sobert> a members of MOTU-team has told me so
[08:36] <bhale> going to version 1.1.17 is not a rebuild
[08:38] <Sobert> the man who told me so is tagged as administrator, I can't say by myself if it's a rebuild or not
[08:39] <Sobert> the fact is that all mono packages on edgy are in 1.1.17 except this one, that all I can say
[08:39] <bhale> i understand
[08:39] <jonh_wendell> geser, yes, i've read and tried to follow it :)
[08:40] <geser> bhale: edgy has mod-mono 1.1.17 as source, the binary debs FTBFS
[08:41] <bhale> mod-mono is pretty much a redheaded step child for us, no one on the mono team uses it
[08:41] <geser> Sobert: read https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/SRU and file a SRU request
[08:41] <bhale> if someone wanted to work on it before releases, that would be fantastic
[08:41] <Sobert> ok geser, thanks a lot
[08:43] <geser> I see now what the problem was for the FTBFS, it build-depends on apache-dev and apache2-dev which uses different libdb4.x-dev which can't be installed at the same time
[08:43] <geser> the problem is fixed now
[08:43] <geser> I didn't try but it should build now
[08:43] <bhale> it was not fixed in time for us to get it right before release
[08:44] <geser> apache got reverted back to libdb4.3 short before release
[08:44] <geser> we still have a php4 with security bugs in edgy
[08:45] <bhale> in universe
[08:45] <bhale> feel free to provide a debdiff to fix security bugs
[08:45] <bhale> universe has no guarantee of support
[08:46] <geser> it's bug 65266
[08:46] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 65266 in php4 "[UVF Exception]  Sync php4 4.4.4 from Debian unstable" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/65266
[08:46] <LaserJock> php4 is in Universe?
[08:46] <bhale> yes
[08:46] <bhale> and the UVF exception is not a debdiff to fix a security issue in the stable release
[08:47] <LaserJock> interesting, I guess I would have assumed it was in Main
[08:47] <bhale> php5 is in main.
[08:47] <LaserJock> ah
[08:47] <geser> it was filed before release
[08:47] <geser> but got hold by the apache/apache2 problem
[08:48] <bhale> yes, the release has come and gone
[08:48] <bhale> the UVF will not be granted
[08:48] <bhale> you might be able to convince the security team that it is easier to upload the new version than a diff, security changes only
[08:50] <geser> it would be change from php4 4.4.2 to 4.4.4 and fix 4 CVEs
[08:51] <geser> I should ask motu-sru how to proceed with php4
[08:51] <bhale> no, you should ask ubuntu security
[08:51] <bhale> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityUpdateProcedures
[08:52] <bhale> not a UVF or an SRU
[08:53] <geser> are security fixes for universe also handled by the security team after release?
[08:54] <bhale> yes
[08:55] <geser> I've looked at the debian changelog for php4 and found a 5th CVE
[09:03] <LaserJock> awesome, major Feisty breakage
[09:03] <ajmitch> what breakage?
[09:04] <LaserJock> X gone and keyboards unusable
[09:04] <LaserJock> something about udev rules
[09:04] <LaserJock> I'm just reading the forums
[09:04] <LaserJock> hahaha
[09:04] <ajmitch> oh right
[09:04] <ajmitch> well I last upgraded a bit over 12 hours ago & everything works
[09:05] <LaserJock> ah yeah, they had to upgrade coreutils
[09:06] <zul> coreutils also
[09:06] <ajmitch> and what's wrong with that?
[09:06] <ajmitch> coreutils is buggy?
[09:06] <LaserJock> they couldn't type
[09:06] <ajmitch> heh
[09:06] <LaserJock> so they had to chroot in
[09:06] <ajmitch> they deserve the breakage :)
[09:07] <ajmitch> I bet the "ZOMG X iz dead!!!11" is from lrm stuff
[09:07] <LaserJock> "the devs are about to lose a tester here if they don't fix this soon... i need info on how to downgrade to edgy..."
[09:07] <LaserJock> hahaha
[09:07] <ajmitch> that's great!
[09:08] <ajmitch> so did anyone file a bug against coreutils?
[09:08] <ajmitch> ah, bug 72914
[09:08] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 72914 in coreutils "coreutils package causes MAJOR breakage" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/72914
[09:08] <zul> see thats why you idle on irc before upgrading
[09:08] <bhale> we don't need a tester that is just going to blackmail us
[09:08] <ajmitch> full of useful info
[09:08] <LaserJock> "the devs should never have released these packages to the repos... when can't they just put the old packages back with the version number updated??? this is FUBAR"
[09:08] <LaserJock> this just made my day!!!
[09:09] <LaserJock> :-)
[09:09] <LaserJock> I'm sorry they had breakage, honest ;-)
[09:09] <thom> geez
[09:09] <ajmitch> same person there
[09:09] <zul> gah
[09:10] <ajmitch> I see mvo fixed coreutils fairly quickly as well
[09:11] <ajmitch> excellent, gnome-panel freeze
[09:12] <PriceChild> ping LaserJock
[09:12] <LaserJock> pong PriceChild
[09:12] <PriceChild> LaserJock: sorry i wasn't on to discuss forumirc things yday... something came up. Are you free for a little chat now?
[09:13] <ajmitch> hehe
[09:15] <LaserJock> PriceChild: I'm in a meeting right now
[09:15] <LaserJock> maybe a little later
[09:16] <PriceChild> LaserJock: no problem, Thanks :)
[09:52] <PriceChild> Any motu in here feel like nitpicking at my upload? http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3503 :)
[09:56] <ajmitch> +Depends: ${shlibs:Depends}, libatk1.0-0 (>= 1.9.0), libc6 (>= 2.3.4-1), libcairo2 (>= 1.0.2-2), libfontconfig1 (>= 2.3.0), libglade2-0 (>= 1:2.5.1), libglib2.0-0 (>= 2.10.0), libgtk2.0-0 (>= 2.8.0), liblame0 (>= 3.96.1-1), libpango1.0-0 (>= 1.12.3), libx11-6, libxcursor1 (>> 1.1.2), libxext6, libxfixes3, libxi6, libxinerama1, libxml2 (>= 2.6.24), libxmu6, libxrandr2, libxrender1, zlib1g (>= 1:1.2.1)
[09:56] <ajmitch> bad, bad badness
[09:56] <ajmitch> ${shlibs:Depends} takes care of all that
[09:56] <PriceChild> Sorry...
[09:56] <ajmitch> rather than duplicating everything & having to manually maintain the library dependencies
[09:57] <PriceChild> someone said dependencies were missing... so i assumed I had to put those in...
[09:57] <ajmitch> several build-depends, it was said
[09:57] <PriceChild> That's definately all the dependencies for the package... so i'm confused as to what they were referring to then...
[09:57] <PriceChild> Thanks for looking though ajmitch :)
[10:01] <PriceChild> ajmitch: oh they were referring to build dependencies... Hmm not sure which are missing :S
[10:02] <ryanakca> anybody have a link for a howto on "merge"-ing?
[10:03] <LaserJock> let's see
[10:03] <LaserJock> there's some old stuff in the packaging guide
[10:04] <LaserJock> and crimsun's School session on wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/School
[10:05] <ryanakca> kk, ty
[10:11] <PriceChild> Is there anything else to comment on ajmitch?
[10:20] <ajmitch> PriceChild: no idea, I'm busy at work sorry :)
[10:21] <PriceChild> ajmitch: thanks for help :)
[10:26] <sistpoty> hi folks
[10:26] <ajmitch> hey sistpoty
[10:26] <sistpoty> hi ajmitch
[10:30] <sistpoty> anyone wanting to merge ire for me? should be a very easy merge (just s/liballegro-dev/liballegro4.2-dev/ for build-dependencies)
[10:31] <ajmitch> sure
[10:31] <sistpoty> :)
[10:43] <Sp4rKy> hi there
[10:43] <Sp4rKy> does anyone test the qucs package ?
[10:44] <Sp4rKy> some funtcionnalities depend of freehdl-config software
[10:44] <Sp4rKy> which isn't in repoo
[10:44] <Sp4rKy> -o
[11:01] <mr_pouit> yes, I don't have mail anymore since this morning :/
[11:05] <hazart> FEISTY BROKEN: Could anybode please triage this bug, as it's breaking feisty at the moment: https://bugz.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/coreutils/+bug/72917
[11:05] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 72917 in coreutils "coreutils_5.97-5.2ubuntu2_i386.deb have broken the X and network." [Undecided,Confirmed]
[11:06] <hazart> Hehe, funny thing we posted at the exact same time about the exact same problem.
[11:06] <gnomefreak> hazart: coreutils was uploaded again i think its the fix
[11:07] <Laser_away> hazart: Ubugtu is a IRC bot
[11:07] <gnomefreak> hazart: there were 2 coreutils updates today last one i got about an hour ago or so
[11:07] <hazart> Ahh, oups.
[11:07] <gnomefreak> i never found a problem with coreutils but others have all i know is it was uploaded again
[11:08] <Laser_away> yeah, I believe it was fixed some time ago
[11:08] <hazart> Okay, it has been an issue for both i386 and amd64.
[11:08] <hazart> Could you then change the status of the bug?
[11:09] <gnomefreak> hazart: once i know it was fixed
[11:09] <gnomefreak> hazart: i didnt have an issue so im not sure if its fixed
[11:09] <hazart> According to launchpad, we have only two releases today: one at 09:03 UTC, and one at 17:03. The last one is the one to introduce the breakage.
[11:10] <gnomefreak> hazart: the first one broke a few people
[11:10] <hazart> Okay, but supposedly the last one does also break some...
[11:11] <ajmitch> hazart: can you confirm that it breaks things for you, not just what others have said?
[11:12] <hazart> A lot of devices disappeared from /dev, so yes, alot of stuff is broken.
[11:13] <ajmitch> definitely with 5.97-5.2ubuntu2?
[11:13] <hazart> Two seconds i'm just gonne chmod in there to check.
[11:16] <sistpoty> yay, X is broken, and I'm not affected :) *phew*
[11:16] <gnomefreak> sistpoty: give it time :)
[11:16] <hazart> root@home:/# dpkg -l|grep coreutils
[11:16] <hazart> ii  coreutils                                  5.97-5.2ubuntu1
[11:16] <gnomefreak> hazart: update it
[11:16] <hazart> Yes, you were right.
[11:16] <hazart> I had the old one.
[11:16] <sistpoty> gnomefreak: ha, but I got a hint know what package *not* to upgrade *g*
[11:16] <gnomefreak> ;)
[11:17] <hazart> gnomefreak: but i'm puzzled. The time that i wrote the forum post was after the release was published. But i guess you work quicker than launchpad and the forums anyways.
[11:18] <ajmitch> hazart: there's a delay between the upload of the package, and being built & on the mirrors
[11:18] <hazart> And i suppose also that there are a delay between.
[11:18] <hazart> Nice, i have now updated. I'll just boot it and see if it fixes stuff. And i'll be back with the answer.
[11:19] <hazart> Thanks for your time.
[11:19] <gnomefreak> hazart: let us know
[11:20] <gnomefreak> ok so what did 2ubuntu2 break?
[11:23] <ajmitch> it didn't
[11:24] <ajmitch> it was the fix, people mistakenly thought it broke things
[11:24] <Laser_away> so is X still borked?
[11:24] <ajmitch> no
[11:25] <Laser_away> or was that coreutils too
[11:25] <johan_> Johan = Hazart
[11:25] <ajmitch> all coreutils interacting with udev
[11:25] <johan_> I can confirm that the newest coreutils release is working.
[11:25] <ajmitch> good
[11:25] <johan_> I'm one happy feisty user again :D
[11:25] <Laser_away> hehe
[11:34] <Hazart> I'm wondering, since this is the MOTU chat, if i'm allowed to ask why eclipse and azureus (java-swt) has been broken for such a long time now, both in edgy and feisty? I see eclipse as a pretty important application.
[11:35] <Laser_away> got a bug report?
[11:35] <Hazart> Yep. two seconds, i'm assigned by mail.
[11:35] <Hazart> https://launchpad.net/bugs/68053
[11:35] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 68053 in azureus "Eclipse will not start (Edgy)" [Undecided,Confirmed]
[11:36] <tritium> Hi Laser_away
[11:36] <gnomefreak> i dont think thats eclipse i think its more of an azureus issue since my eclipse has never failed to open
[11:36] <Laser_away> well, eclipse is High Priority and In Progress
[11:37] <Laser_away> Hazart: interesting, I guess nobody has been able to fix it
[11:37] <Hazart> As i read the bug report, it's the same issue with both azureus and eclipse, that the java-swt library is broken. Someone has even proposed a fix for the problem. But it has been sitting there for weeks now.
[11:38] <Laser_away> well, I'm are still waiting on a bug that's about 6 months old
[11:38] <Laser_away> although it's not on as "big" a package as eclipse
[11:39] <Laser_away> things just work that way sometimes
[11:39] <Hazart> The fix is here: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/eclipse/+bug/68380
[11:39] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 68380 in eclipse "eclipse for edgy-updates" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]
[11:39] <Laser_away> Hazart: people have to have time and interest to work on it
[11:39] <Hazart> Yes, i understand.
[11:39] <Laser_away> Hazart: and then we have to go through Stable Release Update procedures
[11:39] <gnomefreak> did the package in edgy-proposed repo fix it?
[11:41] <Hazart> gnomefreak: Is there a package in edgy-proposed? (oops, i mist wanna check my sources)
[11:41] <gnomefreak> Hazart: someone uploaded one
[11:41] <gnomefreak> Hazart: you have to add the repo its not in sources.list file unless you add it
[11:42] <Hazart> gnomefreak: I just checked, i have the latest stuff from feisty-proposed, but not edgy, that might be the reason.
[11:42] <gnomefreak> Hazart: there is no such thing as feisty-proposed
[11:42] <gnomefreak> afaik they dont get uploads til after the release
[11:42] <Hazart> I see.
[11:43] <teledyn> if i'm building my own customized kernel from the ubuntu source, can i somehow just rip out the whole debian/configs thing for multiple targets and replace it with my own single .config?
[11:43] <Hazart> I guess edgy is first priority there. Too bad i can't check if it's working in edgy now.
[11:44] <gnomefreak> Hazart: afaik eclipse nor any java has been merged yet
[11:45] <Hazart> gnomefreak: Would it be a good or a bad idea to include the edgy-proposed source in my feisty sources list?
[11:46] <mr_pouit> sistpoty: ping ? (about pouetchess sru)
[11:46] <gnomefreak> Hazart: in future it would be bad. atm i wouldnt do it but thats me
[11:46] <Hazart> gnomefreak: I just included it and it has updates for alot of xorg, gtk, x11 and gimp stuff.
[11:46] <sistpoty> mr_pouit: pong
[11:46] <gnomefreak> Hazart: they might be downgrades
[11:46] <Hazart> gnomefreak: Yes i think they are.
[11:46] <mr_pouit> sistpoty: hi, that's about the patch
[11:46] <sistpoty> mr_pouit: sure, what's up?
[11:46] <gnomefreak> Hazart: gtk might be xorg is same version in edgy/feisty iirc
[11:46] <gnomefreak> Hazart: dont add it
[11:47] <sistpoty> teledyn: maybe make-kpgk is what you'd rather want?
[11:47] <Hazart> gnomefreak: thanks for your help, i'll just hang in there for the eclipse fix to get to feisty then.
[11:47] <gnomefreak> it can cause big version issues in future
[11:47] <mr_pouit> sistpoty: I think there is unnecessary changes it the proposed patch on sourceforge... the developer points me the essential changes in the last comment (http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1596684&group_id=157043&atid=802212)
[11:47] <Ubugtu> Sourceforge bug 1596684 "Segfaulting after the 3rd move" [Pri: 5,Closed]
[11:48] <teledyn> sistpoty: not really because i'm building from the ubuntu source
[11:48] <mr_pouit> sistpoty: I can include the whole patch without problem, but I thought it was better to make a minimal diff
[11:49] <sistpoty> teledyn: then I don't have a clue, sorry
[11:49] <sistpoty> mr_pouit: ah, k
[11:52] <mr_pouit> sistpoty: now what should I do ? ^^ Update changelog do add "Approved SRU proposal" and put the right version number, and ping a MOTU to sponsor the upload to -proposed ?
[11:53] <sistpoty> mr_pouit: I'm just looking again at both patches... give me a sec please
[11:53] <mr_pouit> sistpoty: ah, ok sorry ^^
[11:54] <Hazart> gnomefreak: thank you for your help, i have written in the bug about enabling edgy-proposed, so we will soon have some edgy users testing eclipse.
[11:58] <gnomefreak> yw Hazart
[11:59] <sistpoty> mr_pouit: I'd rather prefer the patch siretart pointed to... it does really sane things
[11:59] <mr_pouit> sistpoty: ok, no problem
[11:59] <sistpoty> mr_pouit: the first snippet (scene_main_game.cpp) is really a typo... the ; shouldn't be there
[12:00] <sistpoty> mr_pouit: and the second snippet (though doing this a little bit odd) resets the members (which would otherwise be in an uninitialized state during the first use
[12:00] <mr_pouit> sistpoty: ok
[12:01] <mr_pouit> sistpoty: ok, thanks for the explanation ;) (I am going to update the patch and put it on LP)
[12:01] <sistpoty> mr_pouit: k, thanks for your work on this ;)
[12:02] <mr_pouit> sistpoty: np (this was my first package uploaded to universe, and I don't want it to be broken :D)
[12:02] <sistpoty> hehe
[12:02] <StevenK> mr_pouit: It *has* to be broken, it's Traditional.
[12:03] <mr_pouit> ^^
[12:10] <crimsun> what's up?


[20:38] <tsimonq2> Are the builders OK? amd64 seems to have an awful lot of "cleaning" builders where the last build was hours ago.
[20:38] <tsimonq2> There's also a queue of 11 items and most builders are "Idle" or "Cleaning"
[20:39] <tsimonq2> Some of it solved itself, but e.g. lcy01-amd64-007 looks a bit off.
[22:55] <cjwatson> tsimonq2: I wouldn't worry too much about it with empty queues, but probably some kind of temporary network event.  I'll poke them


[00:10] <michaelh1> Using bzrlib, how can I get a list of log entries from revision n to tip?
[00:10] <michaelh1> (I'm afraid I got lost in bzrlib/log.py)
[00:11] <mwhudson> michaelh1: bzr log -r n..
[00:11] <mwhudson> oh bzrlib
[00:12] <michaelh1> Yeah, I thought I'd be good :)
[00:12] <mwhudson> michaelh1: if n is a integer, i.e. you're looking for a mainline rev
[00:12] <mwhudson> start at tip, walk back along parent_ids[0] counting down the revision number until you get to n
[00:13] <michaelh1> mwhudson: how do I access tip from a branch?
[00:13] <michaelh1> s/branch/Branch instance/
[00:13] <mwhudson> michaelh1: last_revision_info() i think
[00:14] <michaelh1> Hmm. last_revision_info is a tuple - how do I match that up with parent_ids[]?
[00:17] <mwhudson> michaelh1: like this http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/470870/
[00:18] <michaelh1> Ta.  I'll give it a try
[00:26] <michaelh1> So --fixes is encoded as a revision property called 'bugs', which is a string with one 'URL fixed' per line?
[00:31] <mwhudson> michaelh1: yes, something like that
[01:53] <james_w> michaelh1: branch.last_revision() is just the revid part of last_revision_info() fwiw
[02:14] <davidstrauss> Where can I get the plugin for fast-export?
[02:14] <davidstrauss> Is it part of fast-import?
[02:17] <lifeless> yes
[08:08] <rioch> how do I create a new branch? I want to use this branch to develop a feature that may a while, and during that time people may want to try it out.
[08:08] <rioch> so I basically want a copy of my trunk, but as a new branch, if that makes sense
[08:11] <fullermd> That would be the common case   :)
[08:11] <fullermd> bzr branch trunk whatever-you-wanna-call-it
[08:13] <fullermd> For other people to try it out, you'd just have it (or push it) somewhere they can access it.
[08:18] <rioch> it's hosted on launchpad
[08:18] <rioch> so if I do all this locally, and then push, I'll have my new branch. Then I push the changes I make to that new branch, et voila!?
[08:19] <fullermd> Well, it would only be et voila if LP had a French translation of course, but...
[08:22] <rioch> :)
[08:26] <rioch> fullermd: so what happens when you do the branch command? Couldn't I just push trunk to a new location?
[08:27] <fullermd> When you `bzr branch trunk foo`, you create a new branch foo that is (at present, anyway) just a duplicate of trunk under another name.
[08:28] <fullermd> It could just remain forever a sometimes-out-of-date copy of trunk of course, but in this case you'd go on and work with it so that it becomes something new based on trunk (presumably with trunk periodically merged in to keep up-to-date).
[08:28] <parthm> rioch: the bzr tutorial has a section on launchpad that you might find useful: http://doc.bazaar.canonical.com/bzr.2.1/en/tutorials/using_bazaar_with_launchpad.html#accessing-code-in-launchpad-using-bazaar
[08:29] <fullermd> Then you'd have that foo to push a copy of somewhere for other people to access.
[08:42] <rioch> so should I first make some changes and then push to a new branch, or should I first push to the new branch and then make changes?
[08:43] <fullermd> Six and a half of one, half a baker's dozen of the other.
[08:44] <rioch> So make changes first. ok.
[08:44] <rioch> Just need to find a whisk.
[08:44] <fullermd> You can tear up a spatula with a sharp knife in a pinch.
[08:48] <rioch> Just need to find a knife.
[08:48] <rioch> And a spatula.
[08:48] <rioch> Dammit.
[08:49] <fullermd> If we had some eggs we could have eggs and ham...
[08:50] <rioch> I crave marmite.
[08:51] <fullermd> Well, you're own your own there; bzr can't help you  :p
[08:58] <rioch> :)
[09:31] <ronny> hi
[09:32] <ronny> whats a good way to ask bzr for the number of revisions in a repo
[09:32] <jpds> ronny: bzr revno ?
[09:33] <ronny> jpds: thats not the number of revisions
[09:33] <bialix> bzr info -v
[09:33] <bialix> hello bzr
[09:34] <ronny> hum, how do i do it with bzrlib, i already god a repository object and a branch object
[09:35] <ronny> i used to count the results of iter_merge_sorted_revisions but since that just started to break i tought i should do it propper now
[09:35] <lifeless> theres a stats method
[09:35] <lifeless> I don't recall what it is offhand - check pydoc bzrlib.repository.Repository
[09:35] <lifeless> gather_stats or something
[09:41] <ronny> lifeless: yup, that works, thanks
[11:38] <magcius> ow ow ow
[11:38] <jelmer> hi magcius
[11:39] <magcius> uggh, so another project on Launchpad decided to change its trunk branch
[11:39] <magcius> for no reason
[11:39] <magcius> I'm stuck here with the outdated URL on my branch for about three or four weeks because it doesn't update
[11:39] <magcius> now I have no clue how to get my patches back on trunk, there's no real "pull --rebase" like in git
[11:40] <magcius> how do I create a patch?
[11:40] <jelmer> magcius: there is bzr rebase
[11:40] <magcius> there is?
[11:41] <jelmer> magcius: It's part of the bzr-rewrite plugin.
[11:41] <magcius> oh, a plugin
[11:41] <magcius> hm
[11:41] <magcius> is there any way to do it without it?
[11:42] <magcius> That's the worst endorsement of a system I've ever heard: "it needs community plugins and support to make it actually usable"
[11:42] <magcius> I'll stop trolling now. I just want to get this to work.
[11:45] <LeoNerd> rebase is evil, try to avoid it
[11:45] <LeoNerd> It rewrites history, so it's very rude to anyone else watching your branch
[11:45] <AnMaster> I have a question: how to make bzr *not* ignore *.~[0-9]+~  files?
[11:46] <AnMaster> yes I have some rather good reasons for it, trying to version a historical system using that for versioning. But since I have problems setting it up I want to not have to extract a pristine tar ball every time.
[11:54] <bialix> AnMaster: new ! syntax in .bzrignore does not help?
[11:56] <GaryvdM> magcius: Rather merge than rebase
[11:57] <AnMaster> bialix, hm, didn't know about that. How new is it? As I said historical system. Due to bitrot I'm using an old debian version in a vm to contain it. So I guess I might need to update bzr in the vm first. Since it seems to be bzr 0.90
[11:57] <AnMaster> XD
[11:57] <magcius> GaryvdM: harder said than done
[11:57] <bialix> AnMaster: it's new in 2.1
[11:57] <AnMaster> ah, do you happen to know if that works with python 2.5 ?
[11:57] <bialix> 0.90 is archaic, you know
[11:58] <AnMaster> bialix, I'm well aware of that it is archaic
[11:58] <bialix> AnMaster: another solution is to edit global ignore file
[11:58] <bialix> heya GaryvdM
[11:59] <GaryvdM> magcius: ??? A rebase involves doing a merge, just it is not recorded. So if you are getting conflicts with merge, you are also going to get them with rebase.
[11:59] <AnMaster> bialix, I don't have any issues with upgrading it as long as I don't need to update half the system to do it, which is quite probable
[11:59] <GaryvdM> Hi bialix
[11:59] <AnMaster> oh well *goes to test if it works*
[11:59] <magcius> GaryvdM: uhh
[11:59] <bialix> AnMaster: 2.1 is python2.4-python2.6 compatible
[11:59] <AnMaster> bialix, ah, no issues then
[11:59] <magcius> GaryvdM: ok
[12:00] <bialix> GaryvdM: https://bugs.launchpad.net/qbzr/+bug/487115/comments/12
[12:00] <AnMaster> bialix, by the way, in case you are curious: The historic system is OpenGenera, related to lisp machines. :)
[12:00] <bialix> AnMaster: never heard of
[12:00] <AnMaster> ah
[12:01] <AnMaster> strange, reactions are always "never heard of it" or "wow cool", never in between.
[12:01]  * bialix is mostly windows guy, but don't say anybody
[12:01] <AnMaster> bialix, suffice to say, the documentation contains references to ARPANET ;P
[12:01] <GaryvdM> bialix: Cool. going to close the bug then.
[12:02] <bialix> wow cool
[12:02] <bialix> GaryvdM: I found some minor issues with new installer
[12:04] <GaryvdM> bialix: What's that?
[12:05] <bialix> GaryvdM: qbzr should be dependecy for explorer. now it's not. some other subtle items, I need some time to articulate them
[12:05] <bialix> qbzr used to be such dependecy
[12:05] <bialix> and maybe we should bundle the latest version of explorer, now there is stable 1.0.2
[12:06] <GaryvdM> bialix: ok
[12:06] <bialix> GaryvdM: nothing serious, really; just things I've noticed
[12:06] <GaryvdM> bialix: Just pushing my bzr-windows-installers branch to trunk.
[12:07] <bialix> ok
[12:07] <bialix> GaryvdM: we should release qbzr 0.19 ASAP
[12:07] <bialix> this Saturday maube?
[12:07] <GaryvdM> Ok
[12:08] <bialix> when the Ubuntu freeze?
[12:09] <bialix> GaryvdM: freeze at Aug 12; we have 2 weeks
[12:09] <GaryvdM> I've been trying to fix some bugs I've missed today. (like bug 537202)
[12:10] <GaryvdM> I have a test case, and 3 different ways to fix it...
[12:10]  * GaryvdM pushed to lp:bzr-windows-installers
[12:10] <bialix> hmmm
[12:11] <bialix> GaryvdM: ok, maybe we should make release next week
[12:11] <GaryvdM> bialix: Ian rewrote the .iss generation code, so it is likely that the dependency bug has crept in there.
[12:11] <bialix> tomorrow is not the best idea
[12:11] <bialix> GaryvdM: yup
[12:13] <bialix> GaryvdM: how you're building the installer?
[12:14] <GaryvdM> Bla - keyboard short cut + dvorak fail
[12:14] <GaryvdM> bialix
[12:14] <GaryvdM> bialix: I'm building on the ec2 server
[12:14]  * GaryvdM not sure if that's what you were asking...
[12:15] <GaryvdM> bialix: What are your thoughts on my bzrw patch (https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~garyvdm/bzr/bzrw/+merge/31133)
[12:16] <bialix> GaryvdM: sorry, don't look at it yet.
[12:18] <GaryvdM> bialix: short story: I've cleaned up Naoki's stderr patch, and I want it to ship with 2.2
[12:23] <bialix> I will try to look at it on weekend
[12:24] <GaryvdM> bialix: Ok - thanks
[13:12] <bialix> GaryvdM: ping
[13:12] <GaryvdM> Hi
[13:12] <GaryvdM> bialix: pong
[13:12] <bialix> new PyQt draws qlog graph differently.
[13:12] <bialix> is it intended?
[13:13] <GaryvdM> No. Please imagebin screen shot.
[13:13] <GaryvdM> bialix
[13:13] <GaryvdM> bialix: Is it bad?
[13:14] <bialix> circles are smaller, lines are thickier
[13:16] <GaryvdM> bialix: Circle sizes are based on the row height.
[13:16] <GaryvdM> bialix: Has that changed?
[13:18] <bialix> GaryvdM: yes, it's different now
[13:18]  * bialix creating screenshot
[13:22] <bialix> GaryvdM: http://imagebin.ca/view/qxZPmviW.html
[13:22]  * GaryvdM looks
[13:23] <GaryvdM> bialix: Have you maybe changed you system font sizes?
[13:23] <bialix> no
[13:24] <GaryvdM> hmm
[13:24] <GaryvdM> bialix: Do we maybe want to do a if sys.platform == 'win32': fontsize += 1
[13:25] <bialix> wait a min, I'll do the picture for the old PyQT
[13:27] <GaryvdM> bialix: http://doc.bazaar.canonical.com/explorer/en/_images/dialog-log3.png
[13:29] <bialix> GaryvdM: 4.7 http://imagebin.ca/view/LvTlCj.html
[13:29] <bialix> 4.4 http://imagebin.ca/view/wjCxOk.html
[13:30] <bialix> so it seems pyqt 4.7 uses smaler interval between rows
[13:31] <GaryvdM> Yes
[13:31] <bialix> I don't like it
[13:31] <bialix> all the dude wanted
[13:32] <bialix> if you look at 4.4 screenshot then you can see it was clear
[13:32] <bialix> now it's smooth and blur and looks dirty
[13:32] <bialix> :-(
[13:35]  * bialix re-installing 2.1.2 again
[13:36] <GaryvdM> bialix: I agree.
[13:54]  * ddaa wishes to wake up one day and find that all software developers have figured out that windows was not a serious operating system
[13:58] <LeoNerd> It's not the developers you need to worry about. It's the managers/etc... who actually buy ity
[13:59] <ddaa> in this fantasy world, managers would give up on windows after tiring of being ridiculed every day at the coffee machine.
[14:03] <bialix> blah blah blah
[14:10] <ddaa> don't take that personally, it's great that people work on windows support, so we can reach through to those lost souls
[14:36] <idnar> how do I "unadd" a file? the help for bzr revert suggests it'll delete the added files
[14:36] <ddaa> it won't if the file was not committed
[14:36] <beuno> idnar, bzr rm FILE --keep
[14:36] <ddaa> you can also "bzr rm --keep", but bzr will do the safe thing by default
[14:36] <beuno> although, yeah, once it's committed, it's going to live in the history for ever and ever
[14:37] <idnar> okay, cool
[14:37] <beuno> unless you uncommit, which you should *not* do if that revision has been sent into the wild
[14:37] <idnar> yeah, I just added some stuff too soon
[14:37] <idnar> I don't want to commit it along with some other stuff, and it's easier to "unadd" it than to pass the relevant paths to commit all the time
[14:38] <ddaa> you could also shelve the problematic file
[14:38] <idnar> that's probably a good idea, I haven't played around with shelve yet
[14:38] <ddaa> something like 'bzr shelve --all my/file; bzr commit ; bzr unshelve'
[14:39] <ddaa> --all will bypass the command line interaction and just shelve the changes of all specified files
[14:39] <ddaa> (or all changes if no file was specified)
[14:39] <idnar> I guess I tend to be fussier about commits than I need to be with bzr
[14:39] <ddaa> no, fussy commits are good
[14:40] <ddaa> it helps when people go back inspecting the history
[14:40] <idnar> I usually end up working on a couple of things at once in my working directory, and then making a lot of small commits every now and then to break everything up
[14:40] <idnar> I'm used to using darcs, where it actually makes a difference wrt to merging; with bzr, it's not as important, but it's still nice to have a clean and sensible change history
[14:40] <ddaa> maybe you should be more liberal with creating branches
[14:41] <ddaa> bzr merge --uncommitted is pretty cool to pick "that change I started there but should really be in a different branch"
[14:41] <idnar> it's too much work to create a whole branch just for, say, a 5-line change to some file; although I suppose you could blame that on my dev environment
[14:42] <idnar> I think bzr shelve is probably the way to go
[14:43] <idnar> is there a way to do a "cherry-picking" commit or shelve? I seem to recall seeing something about that somewhere, but I forget the details
[14:43] <idnar> as in cherry-picking changes within files, not separate files
[14:43] <ddaa> if you just look about the number of different ways there are in bzr to break up commits, you realize that bzr folks love to be fussy over their commits
[14:43] <ddaa> shelve does that, it asks for each diff hunk, unless you specify --all
[14:43] <LeoNerd> shelve does that.
[14:44] <LeoNerd> I -believe- there's a plugin to imlpement  'bzr record'  which works like darcs record, offering interactive per-hunk selection
[14:44] <LeoNerd> Though personally I dislike that.
[14:44] <idnar> ah, that may be what I'm thinking of
[14:44] <LeoNerd> The advantage of shelve; commit; unshelve is that you can compile and test just before commit.
[14:45] <ddaa> the bzr way tends to be "commit what's in the tree", so you can do some basic testing before committing
[14:45] <LeoNerd> If you have a per-hunk partial commit it's very easy to accidentally commit files that don't even compile, let alone do what you wanted
[14:45] <idnar> ddaa: darcs test runs your tests against what was actually recorded, so it's not a problem there
[14:45] <ddaa> idnar: I'm not sure what you're trying to say, to run your tests you need a checkout anyway
[14:45] <ddaa> and it's better to run them before committing
[14:46] <ddaa> but I admit having no idea what darcs record does
[14:47] <ddaa> is that one of those "what the vcs sees is not what the filesystem sees" (so all bets are off when you try compiling/testing)
[14:47] <idnar> when you run "darcs record", after you've selected what you want to record, if you have a "test" command set up, then iirc it creates a checkout of the source tree that includes your newly-recorded patch and runs your test on that
[14:47] <idnar> if that fails, then the patch won't be recorded
[14:47] <LeoNerd> Ahyes, a big integrated approach.
[14:48] <LeoNerd> The bzr way is that bzr is the revision control tool and it stays out of your way wrt. testing, etc... More unixy
[14:48] <idnar> anyhow, the main thing is that it's automated
[14:48] <idnar> if I have to manually create a new branch/checkout/whatever, I'm going to spend 5x as much time on that as I did on the actual change I want to commit, which is silly
[14:50] <idnar> so with bzr, I usually don't bother creating a whole new branch for the small things, and I don't bother testing them individually; I'll run the tests after I've changed everything, and then just commit pieces individually
[14:50] <idnar> I'm never committing directly to trunk, and I'm not as concerned about "broken" revisions in a branch, as long as the end result is correct
[14:50] <idnar> but ideally each of those chunks would be tested individually, so I guess I need to work on making it easier to break things out like that
[14:50] <jelmer> idnar: Any chance you could file a wishlist bug about this?
[14:51] <ddaa> it's true, it would be nice if there was a "shelve --except FILE ..." option
[14:51] <jelmer> idnar: It certainly sounds like a useful feature, if only as a plugin (like a local PQM?)
[14:52] <idnar> jelmer: hmm, "this" being the "test after commit" feature?
[14:52] <idnar> (well, test before commit, whatever)
[14:52] <jelmer> idnar: yeah, the test after commit bit
[14:53] <idnar> jelmer: okay, will do
[14:57] <jam> morning all
[14:57] <jelmer> hey John
[15:12] <GaryvdM> Hi jam
[15:21] <GaryvdM> Bla
[15:21] <GaryvdM> qannotate is very slow for me due to http://bugreports.qt.nokia.com/browse/QTBUG-4977
[16:15] <bialix> today is shelve bug reports today
[16:15] <bialix> today is shelve bug reports day
[16:32] <idnar> jelmer: okay, created lp#611745
[16:33] <jelmer> idnar, thanks
[17:13] <bialix> ~~~
[17:17] <ChrisCauser> Hello Bazaar mailing list. I was wondering if anyone can help me undo a mistake I've made.
[17:17] <ChrisCauser> I have two repositories. The first is a subversion repository with x number of commits. I decided to try out bazaar and now have y commits in a bzr branch The stupid thing is that I did a simple copy of the working copy and initialized the branch so there is no link between these two repos. Does anyone know of a way I can stitch these two back together into a bzr branch so it looks like 1...x...x+y commits? I can't find anything useful on the web,
[17:17] <maxb> Hmm. that sounds a little painful
[17:18] <maxb> Is the history currently in bazaar entirely linear? (no branching or merging?)
[17:20] <ChrisCauser> It's linear all the way
[17:20] <maxb> I would propose converting the Subversion history using bzr-svn, and then using 'bzr replay' from the bzr-rewrite plugin to transpose the commits in bzr onto the converted branch
[17:21] <ChrisCauser> maxb: Ah, this looks to be very promising
[17:29] <ChrisCauser> I'm getting conflict errors, but I think you've set me on the right path. Many thanks maxb for your help
[18:28] <LukeD> I have a repo structure (no-trees) that has a bunch of mainline branches for different projects, some that I'm tracking with bzr-svn, some local libraries. I want to set up a project branch that includes branches of these mainlines as externals. Essentially, when I do a remote checkout of the project, I'd like it to pull checkouts of all the external branches as well... I can't seem to get it to work though. Anyone done this before?
[18:30] <jelmer> LukeD: that's the nested branch feature, which has not been implemented yet.
[18:30] <LukeD> ahh
[18:31] <jelmer> However, there are some plugins that provide similar functionality (with limitations). See the bzr-externals and bzr-scmproj plugins.
[18:31] <LukeD> I've been trying with bzr-externals, but haven't had success
[18:32] <LukeD> will look at scmproj
[18:34] <LukeD> I feel like bzr-externals probably does what I need, but I'm just not doing it right
[18:34] <LukeD> sigh
[21:48] <ddaa> AFAIK you're on your own
[21:48] <ddaa> as long as your bzr commits are just linear
[21:49] <ddaa> it should be only moderately painful to write a shell script to replay the stuff using "bzr diff" and "bzr patch"
[21:49] <ddaa> going through diff/patch is needed to get over the file-id mismatch
[21:50] <lifeless> replay can handle that if you supply a mapping file
[21:50] <lifeless> AIUI
[21:50] <ddaa> oh, bzr replay, completely forgot about this one
[21:51] <ddaa> I don't see anything about mapping files in its help message, though
[21:51] <lifeless> its in the guts
[21:51] <lifeless> sadly
[21:51] <ddaa> in the guts as in "the option is not document", or as in "there's no UI for it" or as in "some guy coded it once, no idea if it works"
[21:52] <lifeless> middle
[21:52] <lifeless> its used by bzr-svn mapping upgrades
[21:52]  * ddaa is scared
[21:54] <jelmer> the mapping upgrades are done without any mapping files on disk but based on the revision properties/revision ids
[21:54] <jelmer> see also "bzr pseudonyms"
[21:54] <jelmer> though Rob is right that all of the infrastructure is present to do this sort of stuff, just not exposed at the ui
[23:56] <lokkju> on windows is there any way around the 255 char limit with the bzr client?
[23:58] <jelmer> lokkju: 255 char limit on what exactly?