[05:29] <pitti> Good morning
[07:03] <didrocks> good morning
[07:05] <seb128> hey didrocks & desktopers
[07:26] <pitti> bonjour didrocks et seb128 !
[07:26] <seb128> hey pitti, wb!
[07:26] <seb128> did you have good holidays?
[07:27] <pitti> they were marvellous, thanks!
[07:27] <pitti> I'll sort through our ~ 300 photos on the weekend and post a blog
[07:27] <pitti> we've seen looots of amazing northern lights, plus the solar eclipse, a husky ride, a snowmobile tour, and lots more
[07:28] <larsu> welcome back pitti!
[07:28] <pitti> hey larsu, wie gehts?
[07:28] <larsu> gut danke!
[07:28]  * larsu wants to see northern lights as well :)
[07:29] <larsu> where were you?
[07:29] <happyaron> hey didrocks seb128 pitti larsu, :)
[07:29] <larsu> hi happyaron!
[07:29] <didrocks> oh, it's pitti! 300 photos, waow! :)
[07:29] <didrocks> hey happyaron :)
[07:29] <didrocks> sounds like you had fun, nice!
[07:30] <seb128> pitti, sounds like excellent holidays indeed ;-)
[07:30] <seb128> hey happyaron
[07:30] <pitti> didrocks: many thanks for your help with systemd!
[07:31] <didrocks> pitti: you're welcome, you saw I guess everything wasn't as straight as we hoped, I'm happy to catchup with you when you are ready (just give me half an hour first to finish morning catchup)
[07:32] <didrocks> I have some git-format-patch for you
[07:36] <pitti> didrocks: oh? I'm  just integrating a couple of your patches into experimental
[07:37] <didrocks> pitti: I have them for the ubuntu branch only, smooser's uploads, and then, mind
[07:37] <didrocks> pitti: let me forward already the first 2 ones
[07:37] <pitti> didrocks: ah, I already updated the ubuntu branch from the LP diffs this morning
[07:37] <didrocks> ah ok :)
[07:38] <pitti> didrocks: the ubuntu7 upload is terrible, the rest looks fine
[07:38] <didrocks> pitti: see the bug reports and my advice to wait for you for anyone who wanted to touch networking :p
[07:38] <didrocks> at least, that's how we discovered the upstart booting issue
[07:39] <didrocks> but let's talk about it in 20 minutes
[08:02] <didrocks> pitti: ok, done. FYI, I've also posted a patch on the tmp.mount issue
[08:03] <didrocks> (should be attached to the debian bug report)
[08:10] <pitti> didrocks: right, I saw; looks like mbiebl didn't do any commits/upload, I guess he was busy with his HD crash?
[08:12] <didrocks> pitti: yeah, he was planning to do an upload last week-end with that patch and others things, but I guess the HD crash prevented him to do it
[08:12] <pitti> the ubuntu branch is up to date with the archive, we just need to revert ubuntu7 and move it to open-iscsi (bug 1432829)
[08:12] <pitti> didrocks: and I committed some parts from the ubuntu uploads to exp
[08:13] <didrocks> pitti: in case you didn't notice yet, I needed to do a small change to autopkgtest for the upstart-sysv transition (and unblock our lovely touch users :))
[08:13] <pitti> didrocks: do you have any other patches to push?
[08:13] <pitti> didrocks: I did, thanks! (also already committed to git)
[08:13] <didrocks> pitti: nice! I tried to answer as much as possible on systemd and systemd-boot bugs, didn't touch anything network-related though
[08:14] <pitti> didrocks: otherwise I'll just dig through my giant pile of mails and bugs :)
[08:14] <didrocks> subscribed you to a couple of bugs I guess your attention is needed:p
[08:14] <didrocks> pitti: yeah, I think it's the best to be done at this point! I couldn't get vorlon commenting on the statd/nfs issue, so this one is still stalled
[08:14] <didrocks> pitti: otherwise, we should be good :)
[08:29] <willcooke> morning all
[08:29] <willcooke> hey TheMuso
[08:30] <TheMuso> Hey willcooke.
[08:31] <seb128> hey willcooke TheMuso
[08:33] <didrocks> hey willcooke, TheMuso
[08:33] <pitti> didrocks: oh, seems Lennart is back from his vac, too?
[08:34] <didrocks> pitti: well, I thought it was the case last Sunday when he started to answer to some thread, but maybe this one is for good :) I'll let him reviewing some patches and repoke on the stalled review
[08:56] <Sweet5hark> hmmm, according to lwn I had more commits on libreoffice upstream than all of OpenOffice in the last year.
[08:58] <Sweet5hark> ... and development upstream is just a sideshow. i have other things to do as well ...
[08:58] <didrocks> hum, my lwn canonical subscription seems to have ended, not sure why?
[08:59] <larsu> Sweet5hark: that's either good for you or bad for lo
[08:59] <willcooke> g'night TheMuso
[08:59] <willcooke> hi happyaron
[09:00] <happyaron> willcooke: hey
[09:01] <Sweet5hark> larsu: no, its bad for _OpenOffice_. That article compares LO vs AOO.
[09:02] <larsu> Sweet5hark: oh sorry I misread! /me should pay more attention
[09:02] <larsu> Sweet5hark: that's good for libreoffice and you then. And bad for oo, but meh
[09:04] <Sweet5hark> larsu: FWIW, I still moved Canonical to the top 3 corporate contributor in the last year singlehandedly (after Collabora and Red Hat) with 1.9% of changesets.
[09:06] <Sweet5hark> larsu: that might sound bad, but LibreOffice has a really long tail of contributing companies/individuals (aka community): 23.2% of commits are authored by "Unknown" -- that is: not depending on one big supporter.
[09:06] <larsu> Sweet5hark: oh wow I didn't know that
[09:06] <larsu> that's pretty cool
[09:57] <seb128> Trevinho, hey, the issue I showed you in Brussels about gedit having a pixelized/low res icon in alt-tab is still there and it's also on a fresh vivid installation, you are still not getting it?
[10:18] <Trevinho> seb128: mh, no
[10:18] <seb128> Trevinho, do you have a local icon or something?
[10:21] <Trevinho> I don't thinkso
[10:22] <seb128> Trevinho, hum, can you try in a guest session?
[10:23] <Trevinho> ok
[10:23] <seb128> thanks
[10:33] <Trevinho> seb128: ooh, right I've that now
[10:34] <seb128> Trevinho, ah!
[10:34] <Trevinho> same is for totem...
[10:34] <seb128> Trevinho, where would report that issue?
[10:35] <seb128> indeed
[10:35] <Trevinho> Mh, the bug seems to be related to unity, altough it's weird as the launcher works well and they uses the same icon source
[10:37] <Trevinho> ok,l I also see it when changing the launcher icon size...
[10:39] <Trevinho> seb128: in terms of icons nothing changed in vivid, right?
[10:43] <Trevinho> seb128: what I've noticed that compared to gnome-terminal, gedit has not the 64 and 128 icons, but this shouldn't matter
[10:45] <seb128> Trevinho, I don't think icon theme changed
[10:45] <seb128> but gtk did
[10:45] <seb128> remember the issues you fixed with larsu in Brussels?
[10:47] <larsu> Trevinho: the launcher doesn't work for evolution, for example
[10:47] <larsu> there were some changes in gtk related to the icons it returns
[10:47] <Trevinho> larsu: yeah, there are a subset of gnome apps that have problemns
[10:48] <larsu> I think because it violated the spec before, and doesn't anymore
[10:48] <Trevinho> but I don't see differences on what the theme has for them
[10:48] <larsu> which function are you using to load icons?
[10:50] <Trevinho> larsu: this is the code doing it http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/10683187/
[10:56] <larsu> Trevinho: and you pass 256 for the icon size?
[10:57] <Trevinho> larsu: that depends on the icon size defined in settings (for the launcher) or 256 (if not scaled) for switcher
[11:00] <Trevinho> larsu: that's done during rendering, we call TextureForSize depending on the needed size... and that changes dpending on scaling, options or state
[11:02] <ricotz> there is also gtk_icon_theme_lookup_icon_for_scale to fit hidpi case
[11:02] <Trevinho> ricotz: mh, well yeah, but we're having the issue event with no scaling at all
[11:05] <ricotz> Trevinho, ok, then I don't recall having a similar issue
[11:06] <larsu> Trevinho: gtk returns a 48×48 icon for 'accessories-text-editor', but larger ones for firefox, gnome-terminal, and devhelp
[11:06] <larsu> Trevinho: I'm guessing we just need larger icons for those?
[11:06] <Trevinho> larsu: I've tried adding 64 and 128 icons but I've noticed any change
[11:07] <Trevinho> and updated gtk cache, but let me check again
[11:09] <larsu> hm, humanity's apps/48 is defined as scalable
[11:10]  * Trevinho confirms no change, by adding 64/128 icons
[11:12] <larsu> Trevinho: I must disagree. Adding MaxSize=256 to Humanity/index.theme (in the apps/48 section) makes gtk give me icons in the requested size
[11:12] <larsu> maybe there's some caching going on in unity?
[11:13] <Trevinho> larsu: ah, ok. that's what you changed... I was just adding icons in the proper size folders :)
[11:14] <larsu> Trevinho: I think that doesn't work until you add those folders to index.theme
[11:14]  * larsu is reading icon theme spec :(
[11:18] <Trevinho> larsu: mh, adding MaxSize doesn't change unity behavior here btw
[11:20] <larsu> Trevinho: are you sure you're regenerating the cache? It works for me
[11:20] <larsu> Trevinho: after restarting gedit
[11:20] <Trevinho> larsu: with unity?
[11:21] <Trevinho> larsu: and I've been calling gtk-update-icon-cache-3.0 ...
[11:22] <larsu> Trevinho: `sudo gtk-update-icon-cache Humanity`
[11:22] <Trevinho> yeah...
[11:22] <larsu> weird!
[11:22] <Trevinho> ok, I didn't use the proper path
[11:22] <Trevinho> now it's fine
[11:23] <larsu> yay :)
[11:23] <Trevinho> so, should we fix humanity by adding new icons or using MaxSize?
[11:23] <larsu> maxsize
[11:23] <larsu> I'll propose a fix in a bit
[11:23]  * larsu tries to find other offenders as well
[11:24] <larsu> Trevinho: thanks for helping!
[11:24] <Trevinho> larsu: thank you
[11:24] <Trevinho> larsu: I've not read the full specs, but couldn't maxsize applied to 48 make the theme to pick a 256 icon (or anyway greater than 48) if available?
[11:25] <Trevinho> not to pick...
[11:25] <Trevinho> not to pick...
[11:25] <Trevinho> not to pick...
[11:26] <larsu> Trevinho: it could, but the spec is stupid. It says MaxSize defaults to Size if it is not given
[11:26] <larsu> I think gtk devs (mclasen I believe) decided to go with the spec even though it's dumb in this regard, because not following it created other issues
[11:28] <Trevinho> ok, I see...
[12:29] <bregma> is there a PPA with GTK+-3.16 for testing on Ubuntu anywhere?
[12:32] <didrocks> bregma: seems the more recent is 3.15.12 is the gnome ubuntu ppa
[12:32] <didrocks> https://launchpad.net/~gnome3-team/+archive/ubuntu/gnome3-staging
[12:33] <didrocks> ah ricotz has it
[12:33] <didrocks> bregma: https://launchpad.net/~ricotz/+archive/ubuntu/testing
[12:34] <bregma> sweet, at least I don't have to dedicate bandwidth and CPU to rebuilding locally
[12:34] <didrocks> yep ;)
[12:35] <didrocks> bregma: just a note, in 7 years, it's the first time the launchpad info "same package in other repositories" was of use for me :)
[12:35] <didrocks> achievement unlocked!
[12:35] <bregma> :)
[12:36] <larsu> didrocks: it was added for this exact moment
[12:37] <didrocks> larsu: that was *exactly* the joke I had in my mind! :)
[12:37] <larsu> didrocks: glad to make it for you ;)
[12:37] <didrocks> \o/
[12:37]  * didrocks hugs larsu
[12:37]  * larsu hugs didrocks back
[12:39] <Sweet5hark> didrocks: we have dispatched reporters to your location to interview you about your user experience now that this has happened.
[12:40] <didrocks> Sweet5hark: I hope this will at least make the headlines :)
[12:42] <Sweet5hark> didrocks: its not a story before there is at least one "10 things didrocks felt when he saw the "same package" note, that will make you cry" clickbait about it
[12:45] <didrocks> heh ;)
[14:11] <attente> larsu, seb128: is this ok to land? https://code.launchpad.net/~attente/ubuntu-themes/1285783/+merge/227768
[14:12] <larsu> sure
[14:16] <seb128> attente, yes, it's already landed, just blocked by beta freeze, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/vivid/+queue?queue_state=1&queue_text=ubuntu-themes
[14:17] <seb128> larsu, I wonder if that fixes the issue on some of the apps that we opted out of o-s?
[14:19] <larsu> dunno
[15:12] <seb128> tedg, hey, any chance you could look at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/indicator-sound/+bug/1428711 ? I hit it regularly on my vivid desktop, just had it yesterday when opening totem...
[15:13] <seb128> tedg, let me know if you need debug info
[15:13] <tedg> seb128, Sure, let me look.
[15:13] <seb128> since I get the issue regularly I should be able to get some
[15:13] <seb128> tedg, thanks
[15:14] <tedg> seb128, It seems that it's in g_variant_is_trusted, are you skeptical of your variants?
[15:14] <tedg> ;-)
[15:14] <seb128> lol
[15:14] <seb128> seems so!
[15:25] <pitti> didrocks: FYI, I had to revert the patch for bug 1411140 :/
[16:20] <seb128> desrt, hey, could you look at https://errors.ubuntu.com/problem/e6c01932bfab14c9c530ddef79e1cf0e9d7b5e97 and tell me if that's could be a (known?) glib/dconf bug?
[16:20] <seb128> that one is from file-roller but nautilus has similar reports
[16:21] <desrt> sure.  will look in a bit.  meeting right now.
[16:21] <seb128> thanks
[16:23] <desrt> this is recent?
[16:23] <desrt> i made some changes there lately....
[16:23] <seb128> desrt, it started in vivid it seems yes
[16:24] <desrt> oh.  those changes were on a branch and they didn't get committed.
[16:24] <desrt> so disregard :)
[16:24] <seb128> k
[16:30] <desrt> seb128: if i had to guess, i'd say that it's another floating refcount issue
[16:32] <seb128> desrt, not sure about https://errors.ubuntu.com/problem/58672dd1c950607c573103da35280bb46f152622 as well
[16:32] <desrt> that one is somewhat more suspicious
[16:33] <Riddell> Sweet5hark: https://gerrit.libreoffice.org/#/c/13058/ is in isn't it?
[16:33] <Riddell> certainly all the icons are in master http://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/core/tree/icon-themes/breeze
[16:52] <seb128> desrt, do you want a bug report about one of those issues?
[16:53] <desrt> seb128: still meeting.  gimme a bit before i take a proper look.
[16:54] <seb128> desrt, k
[17:42] <seb128> Trevinho, those issues seem to have started in vivid after your landing to add menus to unfocussed windows, not sure if that's on somebody's todolist?
[17:42] <seb128> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/1425085 https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/1432231
[17:43] <seb128> attente, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity-control-center/+bug/1431811 is for you I guess :-)
[17:44] <seb128> desrt, another similar looking https://errors.ubuntu.com/problem/844d21139beaa74a6848c82238da8f9f7ee7d3d8
[17:45] <desrt> seb128: almost done ;)
[17:45] <seb128> desrt, yeah, no worry, just listing things as I cross them ;-)
[17:49] <igniting> Hi everyone! Can anyone here help me fix this bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/1241972?
[17:51] <igniting> I am unfamiliar with the code base, and I didn't enough documentation to start with. It would be great if someone can tell which part of the code is causing this bug.
[18:00] <Trevinho> seb128: the crashes?
[18:00] <seb128> Trevinho, yes, see the urls I gave
[18:02] <Trevinho> ouch, these are annoying to debug (happening in the loop)
[18:04] <Trevinho> that's more an andyrock area btw, but he's in holiday next week (while I'll be out from tomorrow till tue)
[18:04] <andyrock> seb128, what?
[18:04] <andyrock> and hy
[18:04] <andyrock> *hi
[18:04] <Trevinho> andyrock: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/1432231
[18:05] <andyrock> Trevinho, i suppose it does happen on shutdown
[18:05] <andyrock> Trevinho, seb128 do we have any numbers?
[18:06] <Trevinho> andyrock: you think that in that case it's unloading unityshell?
[18:06] <Trevinho> Changing a setting shouldn't happen
[18:06] <andyrock> yeah but changing the texutre type has nothing to do with this part of code
[18:07] <andyrock> likely it crashed for some other reasons
[18:07] <desrt> seb128: a lot of these don't look very similar :p
[18:14] <desrt> seb128: can i get cores for any of these backtraces?
[18:14] <desrt> and/or instructions for reproducing?
[18:21] <seb128> desrt, I don't think so :-/
[18:21] <seb128> andyrock, "numbers"?
[18:21] <seb128> andyrock, Trevinho just gave the bug number
[18:21] <desrt> i need to stop writing so much assert() in my code :p
[18:23] <andyrock> seb128, like how often does it happen?
[18:24] <seb128> andyrock, it has a bunch of the most reported e.u.c issues for unity in vivid
[18:24] <seb128> andyrock, https://errors.ubuntu.com/problem/7feea27498d47b4914cf17674c927cfa0b0e1d7e
[18:24] <seb128> andyrock, numbers are low but vivid doesn't have lot of users yet
[18:25] <seb128> andyrock, https://errors.ubuntu.com/problem/9b2b6ff77e637a4349392f55c448b543c4fd605c as well
[18:30] <desrt> seb128: i'm going to downgrade one branch of that assertion to a warning since it's possible that it happens in response to a bug elsewhere
[18:30] <desrt> as for the gvariant unref problems, i can only assume that it's some weird floating ref issue
[18:30] <seb128> desrt, ok
[18:30] <desrt> sure would be nice to know what the setting in question was, so i could trace down the issue
[18:31] <seb128> desrt, I can try to get you debug infos but I'm not sure it's going to be easy, no easy way to reproduce/get dumps there
[18:35] <desrt> seb128: i looked at file roller itself and it seems that there are no suspicious uses of gsettings api
[18:35] <desrt> so it makes me wonder if it's some library instead
[18:50] <desrt> in other news: spurious asserts in the new inotify code found an actual bug
[18:53] <seb128> nice


[07:14] <cousin_luigi> hello
[07:18] <cousin_luigi> bbl
[07:45] <hsingh> hello I want to volunteer for ubuntu and fix bugs. Any one willing to mentor me?
[07:49] <hsingh> no one :(
[08:19] <brendand> hsingh - it might be a bit early for most of the mentors
[08:21] <hsingh> brendand, some one to guide me if I get stuck or at least help me get started
[08:22] <brendand> hsingh - i know. i just mean you might want to check back later in the day
[08:22] <brendand> hsingh - and everyone's here to guide you if you get stuck
[08:22] <brendand> hsingh - what are you interested in doing?
[08:23] <hsingh> brendand, bug squad
[08:24] <brendand> hsingh - and you read the wiki page https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BugSquad
[08:25] <hsingh> brendand, yes
[08:25] <brendand> hsingh - any questions?
[08:26] <hsingh> brendand, for most of the bug reports I can't understand where to start looking and how to use the detail logs provided
[08:27] <brendand> hsingh - that's always the hardest part. but you can still help in several ways.
[08:28] <hsingh> brendand, how?
[08:28] <brendand> hsingh - step 1, the bug needs to be confirmed, or marked incomplete. try seeing if the same bug happens for you
[08:28] <brendand> hsingh - if it doesn't then you need to decide if the reporter has given you enough info to try and reproduce it
[08:29] <brendand> hsingh - at least they should be saying which version of ubuntu and the package they are using
[08:32] <hsingh> brendand, okay. but my main motive is to learn and write code :)
[08:43] <brendand> hsingh - bugsquad is not really meant directly for coding. there are other avenues for that, but it would depend on your coding experience
[08:44] <hsingh> brendand, like?
[08:45] <brendand> hsingh - you mean which avenues?
[08:46] <hsingh> brendand, yes
[08:47] <brendand> hsingh - unity bitesize bugs is a good way to get involved. also papercuts
[08:48] <brendand> hsingh - it depends on what your coding skills are and what you're interested in
[10:37] <ali1234> bug 967923
[10:37] <ubot4> ali1234: Error: Bug #967923 not found.
[10:37] <ali1234> bug 867923
[10:37] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 867923 in gedit (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "gedit refuses to save file when backup cannot be created. (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Low,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/867923
[10:38] <ali1234> i got an automated message on this bug telling me i should have used ubuntu-bug. but i did use it. problem?
[10:41] <pedro_> ali1234, none, seems the wrong stock response was used and its not an automated message
[10:41] <pedro_> ali1234, thanks for the reporter btw :-)
[10:41] <pedro_> s/reporter/report
[10:41] <pedro_> we'll take care of it
[11:17] <alourie> hello
[11:17] <alourie> I want to report a bug, but not sure where to
[11:17] <alourie> a little help?
[11:18] <iceroot> alourie: to launchpad
[11:18] <iceroot> !bug | alourie
[11:18] <ubot4> alourie: If you find a bug in Ubuntu or any of its derivatives, please file a bug using the command « ubuntu-bug <package> » - See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ReportingBugs for other ways to report bugs.
[11:19] <alourie> iceroot: well, I know about the launchpad, I'm just not sure whether it's Ubuntu specific or not
[11:23] <alourie> ah, well, I'll report it to Ubuntu, and we'll see how it goes
[11:25] <iceroot> alourie: maybe post the bug after you created it here
[11:26] <alourie> iceroot: no, can't do. The bug is in Empathy, and those are kept on gnome, so I'll open it there anyway...
[12:12] <ali1234> pedro_: thanks, i would have upstreamed it myself if you asked :)
[12:13] <alourie> iceroot: bug #874133
[12:13] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 874133 in empathy (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "Empathy can't connect to gtalk after reboot (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/874133
[12:32] <lbndev> Good afternoon
[12:35] <lbndev> Is any of you working on the apache2 package ?
[12:49] <lbndev> I filed a bug in early august, regarding an issue fixed upstream, for which the patch isn't applied in Ubuntu.
[12:49] <lbndev> I've been able to get the patch from upstream, apt-get source the ubuntu package, patch it, rebuild it, and confirm that with this patch my problem (sigsegv) goes away
[12:50] <lbndev> I attached the patch to the bug. A few days after , it has been triaged
[12:50] <lbndev> And since then, ... that's pretty much it.
[12:51] <lbndev> I would need someone with commit access to build a patched version and publish it to Ubuntu repositories (so that I don't have to rebuild the package every time it changes in the repos)
[12:52] <lbndev> I tried contacting Canonical by e-mail (from the web site), and the only developer currently assigned to one of the apache2 bugs open in launchpad, without getting an answer.
[12:52] <lbndev> Don't get me grong, I understand everybody's time is precious. This is not a complain, just a search for solution
[12:53] <lbndev> (BTW I offered to pay for the time a committer would agree to spend applying the patch)
[12:55] <lbndev> If anyone has an idea on how I can contact someone who will spend a little time looking at my issue and finding an agreement on fixing it, that would be very much appreciated
[12:55] <lbndev> The issue is launchpad bug #821077
[12:55] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 821077 in apache2 (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "Apache2 segfault with SSLProxyMachineCertificateFile (upstream patch not applied in ubuntu) (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/821077
[12:55] <lbndev> Thank you
[13:12] <emorris> Hi, I'm not sure if this is the right place to ask, but what's the procedure for proposed bugs to be released?
[13:37] <yofel> emorris: you mean bugs that have fixes in the -proposed archive?
[13:38] <emorris> yofel, yeah
[13:38] <yofel> emorris: those need to go through the SRU verification process https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates#Verification, once they're verified an a week has passed they go to -updates
[13:39] <yofel> *and a week
[13:39] <emorris> yofel, awesome, thanks :-)
[13:46] <bil21al> if we want to get the information about the crash from the user can we refer user to use valgrind method to reproduce it and attach the out put here?? is this a good method  of getting info about crash??
[13:48] <bil21al> or we use apport collect bug number to get info ??
[13:49] <pedro_> it depends of the crash
[13:49] <pedro_> if its a memory corruption one (*alloc* calls) then yes, a valgrind log is really useful there
[13:57] <bil21al>  pedro_ and in case of unity crash and software crash? is there any ubuntu wiki page that i study?
[13:58] <pedro_> software crash == software center?
[13:58] <pedro_> i think there's  a page for unity..
[13:58]  * pedro_ looks
[13:59] <pedro_> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Unity/FilingBugs
[13:59] <pedro_> bil21al, ^
[14:00] <bil21al> ok i study that thankx
[14:49] <bil21al> in which branch we report the theme bug?
[14:57] <bil21al> pedro_
[14:58] <bil21al> see this bug please now what i do ask him for the vedio because in vedio we can easily see the vanishing of chat window??
[14:58] <bil21al> in this bug
[14:58] <bil21al> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/empathy/+bug/873786
[14:58] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 873786 in empathy (Ubuntu) "can't see Empathy's contact list after logging in accounts (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,Incomplete]
[15:00] <bil21al> anybody
[15:00] <bil21al> !!
[15:05] <pedro_> bil21al, "There is no way to add a image of it because there isn't any message or action appearing. What happens is that the program closes by itself imediatelly when I try open it."
[15:05] <pedro_> looks like the program is crashing
[15:05] <pedro_> could you ask the reporter to enable apport and submit a new report?
[15:06] <pedro_> you can then mark this report as a dup of the new one
[15:06] <bil21al> ok thank you.
[15:07] <pedro_> you're welcome
[15:07] <pedro_> thanks for help us :-)
[15:12] <bil21al> no no pedro_ bro you help me.
[15:12] <pedro_> oh with a new release out we should organize a bug day next week
[15:20] <bil21al> hmm gud pedro_
[15:35] <bil21al> have anybody see this issue??
[15:35] <bil21al> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/empathy/+bug/873786
[15:35] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 873786 in empathy (Ubuntu) "can't see Empathy's contact list after logging in accounts (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,Incomplete]
[15:35] <bil21al> no not that sorry this one
[15:35] <bil21al> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/874348
[15:35] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 874348 in unity (Ubuntu) "when we change the theme some icons from the launcher vanished (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New]
[15:36] <bil21al> not the upper one
[15:36] <bil21al> sorry
[16:51] <sense> Who can I bug to review my pending membership request for the Bug Squad?
[17:01] <yofel> hggdh probably ^^
[17:01] <yofel> sense: long time no see :)
[17:01] <sense> Hello yofel!
[17:01] <sense> I've been away for a while, but now I'm back.
[17:01] <yofel> \o/
[17:01] <sense> How's everyone been?
[17:06] <yofel> sense: pretty busy, I'm currently more working on kubuntu than on bugs though
[17:06] <sense> yofel: A lot to do?
[17:06] <yofel> there's a lot to do everywhere, you can usually measure teams by how understaffed they are :P
[17:08] <hggdh> sense! welcome back sir!
[17:09] <sense> hello hggdh! Good to see your name on my screen!
[17:09] <hggdh> sense: it will be my pleasure, looking at it now. I missed you :-)
[17:10] <sense> hggdh: I missed you too. The community is nice.
[17:12] <hggdh> sense: done. Are you also looking at -control?
[17:13] <sense> hggdh: I would wish to rejoin that as well, but haven't sent in my application. Should I do that? :)
[17:13] <hggdh> sense: I think you would be warranted back. pedro_, bdmurray? ^
[17:13] <sense> I shouldn't have left that team.
[17:14] <pedro_> don't think it is needed to send the application again
[17:14] <hggdh> :-) life is what it is, don't worry about that
[17:14] <pedro_> welcome back sense :-)
[17:14] <sense> Hi and thanks pedro_!
[17:15] <dtchen> good to see you again, sense.
[17:15] <sense> thanks dtchen
[17:19] <hggdh> sense: also done. I am really glad to see you (er, chat with you)
[17:19] <sense> hggdh: Thank you!
[17:20]  * hggdh considers this a good day already
[17:20] <sense> hggdh: How has this cycle been for you?
[17:20] <hggdh> sense: confusing :-)
[17:21] <hggdh> I am glad we shipped it, now I have a few days of rest
[17:21] <sense> :)
[17:21] <sense> Must have been a lot of work, all that new stuff that went into the server.
[17:22] <hggdh> it was, but I was not as active on the server, unfortunately, had other pressing work to be done
[17:22] <hggdh> pretty much the most important thing I did there was participate a bit on the development of an auxiliary package
[17:23] <sense> You did some development!
[17:24] <hggdh> yeah. Slowly I am getting back to programming. But nowadays it takes longer to write code, I have to refer to the documentation continuously
[17:25] <hggdh> different from riding a bike, if you do not write code continuously, you forget a lot
[17:25] <sense> yeah, I can imagine that
[17:26] <hggdh> heh. For someone that pretty much only wrote OS-related code, I am amazingly weak nowadays
[17:26] <sense> That demonstrates how quickly one forgets things.
[17:28] <hggdh> yes. Well, I stopped programming -- *really* programming -- some 15 years ago. From that time onward I think I wrote very few complete programs, and more of patches (but still too few)
[17:29] <sense> A lot of things have changed in those 15 years!
[17:29] <sense> Even without forgetting, you would need a lot of documentation.
[17:29] <hggdh> yes. Python got to be serious, for example, and Java go to be even more a POS
[17:30] <hggdh> C is still C, though. And I still hate C++
[17:30] <sense> :)
[18:35] <roadmr> bummer, some stress tests require manual intervention (hibernate_30 requires me to tell it to go ahead and do it)
 says "When reporting a problem with hardware detection, you should report the bug against the kernel." That doesn't make sense to me.
[19:30] <sense> What about media-player-info and the likes?
[19:31] <sense> Or is it just a general lack of maintenance of the debugging wiki pages?
[19:31] <pedro_> corner cases?
[19:31] <pedro_> looks like it's more for things like my device is not detected at all
[19:31] <pedro_> rather than my device is detected but not mounted in banshee cause is missing the .is_audio_player thing
[19:32] <sense> yeah
[19:32] <pedro_> that should be a bit more clear though
[19:32] <sense> I looked at some of the other pages and they all need an overhaul.
[19:33] <sense> Maybe something for the UDS! :)
[19:33] <ikt> o.O
[19:51] <hggdh> yes, it is time to overhaul them -- again!
[22:29] <MoLE_> bug 715438, anyone available to triage importance?
[22:29] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 715438 in linux (Ubuntu) "hermes-I wireless interface will not associate with open access point (affects: 26) (dups: 2) (heat: 84)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/715438
[23:46] <MoLE_> bug 715438, any bug squad member available to look at triaging importance?
[23:46] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 715438 in linux (Ubuntu) "hermes-I wireless interface will not associate with open access point (affects: 26) (dups: 2) (heat: 84)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/715438
[23:55] <mdlueck> What is the correct "package" to log a bug against to specify just the base OS, Lucid 10.04.3 both x64 and x86?
[23:56] <mdlueck> I have to report: "Ubuntu Lucid prevents system POST once installed"


[10:46] <joe18> how do i install ubuntu on my nexus 7? the files the installer depends on are no longer where the wiki says they are
[10:48] <davmor2> joe18: Ubuntu touch for the n7 or the full desktop?
[10:48] <joe18> full desktop
[10:51] <davmor2> joe18: it's not worked on now as far as I know ogra_ might be able to help you more
[10:52] <joe18> wasnt unity supposed to be the one interface for all the devices? what happened to that? why are there 2 interfaces for only one android tablet
[10:55] <davmor2> joe18: unity8 is the converged code which is the same code doing the same thing with different perspectives based on screen size.  Unity8 is Ubuntu Touch
[10:56] <joe18> ooohhhhh
[10:57] <davmor2> joe18: in which case the install you want is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Install
[10:58] <joe18> can i make ubuntu touch not so phone friendly?
[10:59] <joe18> like ubnutu-(notsomuch)-touch?
[11:00] <infinity> Other than the lack of GSM radios, there's not much difference between a tablet and phone, really...
[11:00] <infinity> Have iOS and Android not proven this quite well already?
[11:01] <davmor2> joe18: How do you mean.  There is no real need to have something more like the desktop version as it just takes up space on the screen that you need.  Is there something specific you need it to  do that it can't?
[11:03] <joe18> i want ubuntu desktop on my nexus 7. call me crazy. i dont really like the ubuntu touch interface
[11:07] <joe18> is ubuntu touch still based on cm10?
[11:07] <ogra_> define "based on"
[11:09] <joe18> chroot, kernel, no x11 ?
[11:09] <ogra_> it uses the cm10 kernel, and an ~40M big lxc container where we run a few android daemons to initialize the HW (like the proprietary modem driver and daemon etc)... the reas is a plain straight ubuntu
[11:09] <ogra_> *rest
[11:10] <ogra_> and indeed, since the new unity is designed for Mir, no X
[11:11] <joe18> how much of a plain straight ubuntu? if i wanted too could i apt-get install kubuntu?
[11:12] <ogra_> it wouldnt run, but indeed you can apt-get install it (after making the OS writable)
[11:12] <ogra_> (no X ...)
[11:14] <joe18> can i install X?
[11:14] <joe18> why isnt OS writable?
[11:15] <ogra_> because you dont need that on a phone ... apps dont get installed in the OS but in a user specific space (using click packages injstead of debs)
[11:17] <joe18> does not mobile unity work?
[11:17] <ogra_> additionally ubuntu touch uses image based updates, that requires that certain parts of the fs do not change
[11:17] <ogra_> (else you wouldnbt be able to provide image diffs OTA and people would have to download a full image every time)
[11:21] <joe18> so no kubuntu also means no X11 apps?
[11:21] <joe18> does?
[11:21] <joe18> *
[11:22] <ogra_> right
[11:48] <Rjs> I've been toying in my mind with the idea of using the ubuntu-nexus7 kernel with e.g. standard debian userland to provide a fully-free code base - it seems that it could be feasible (if you don't need gps or 3d acceleration, which require closed-source binaries, and ignore the non-freeness of the boot loader)
[11:48] <Rjs> but I haven't had any time to try it out... (especially since I heard that there were difficulties bootstrapping a new filesystem etc. using the bootloader, and there might be complex userland changes that the ubuntu desktop had which I don't know about)
[11:49] <ogra_> not many ...
[11:50] <ogra_> ubuntu-defaults-nexus7 should have all modifications
[11:53] <Rjs> I remember from my testing that the fbdev X11 display driver seemed to work ok (if 3D acceleration isn't needed - I think it was quite a bit faster than the openmoko gta02, for example), and I later heard about someone starting to write a driver called "opentegra", which could be even better (I don't know if anything came of it, haven't looked)
[11:54] <ogra_> it should be sufficient if you dont need any GLES stuff
[11:54] <kulve> opentegra might need newer kernel
[11:55] <ogra_> you might lose the most of one CPU core to it worst case
[11:55] <ogra_> fbdev should work on all kernels that have a framebuffer device
[11:56] <ogra_> the only issue is that if you want *any* kind of usable video playback you will need the binary driver and the codecs
[11:56] <ogra_> if you can live without that fbdev is just fine
[11:58] <Rjs> ok, so it doesn't sound too difficult after all... (I was actually surprised that so many of the sensors etc. in the nexus7 worked without closed-source software; I think GPS and of course 3d acceleration were the primary exceptions)
[12:03] <Rjs> maybe the easiest way to install it would be to make a filesystem image (sans kernel) using qemu-arm, configuring it to use fbdev etc. (and to manage without a keyboard), and then try to use the adb stuff from the bootloader to get the kernel and this filesystem image or its contents onto the nexus7 (that's what I think I'd try first, if I had the time...)
[12:04] <ogra_> why manage without a keyboard ?
[12:04] <ogra_> if you use the right kernel config you will have a console and should be ablet to attach a keyboard via OTG cable
[12:06] <Rjs> hmm yes, good idea, that would probably be much easier than trying to do everything with just the touchscreen
[12:10] <kulve> Rjs: as said, it shouldn't be a problem to get X.Org running with open source only. But it would be slow and crippled. So why would you like to do it? :)
[12:29] <Rjs> kulve: simply because I don't like to use non-free software :) (and I'm used to using an openmoko gta02, which is much slower but still ok for me - the main problem I have with it is the physically small display)
[12:31] <Rjs> (and from a more pragmatic point of view, I'm not sure if the stuck-button bug was ever fixed in the non-free world - I didn't really follow it closely, but I think I read that the proprietary driver provided by nvidia required an X.org that was too old to have the bugfix, so at least some backporting would be required)
[12:32] <kulve> luckily on tegra nvidia provides drivers for multiple X.Org versions, up to 14
[12:32] <kulve> which I think is used in Saucy
[12:32] <kulve> I meant the video ABI versions..
[12:41] <Rjs> ok, good to know (I haven't really followed the proprietary drivers at all)
[12:43] <kulve> I've been playing with them a bit nexus 7 and Ouya
[15:44] <c10ud> hi.. this is embarassing but: I need to install hamachi in my NATTY (11.04) armel box and I just found out that mirrors are gone..is there any backup mirror somewhere?
[15:44] <c10ud> (I need it for damn lsb deps)
[15:48] <c10ud> wow, maybe found it (!) http://<IP_ADDRESS>/
[15:50] <rbasak> c10ud: http://askubuntu.com/a/91821/7808
[15:51] <c10ud> rbasak, thanks but that doesn't seem to include the "ports" pool
[15:51] <c10ud> no wait it does
[15:51] <c10ud> thanks then! :D
[15:51] <rbasak> Good point I didn't think of that.
[15:52] <rbasak> If it does then you're in luck :)
[15:52] <c10ud> I tried searching for specific armel packages and google didn't bring this up, now I'll try it but I see a Contents-armel file so I think it should work!
[15:52]  * c10ud trying
[15:53] <rbasak> http://old-releases.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/natty/main/binary-armel/Release exists
[15:54] <rbasak> So the line "deb http://old-releases.ubuntu.com/ubuntu natty" should just work I guess. No ubuntu-ports any more then.
[16:00] <c10ud> this imx53 is slow, probably the SDcard is quite fucked up.. (and it's running armel instead of armhf anyway..) but it definitely seems to be working :)
[16:01] <c10ud> thanks again rbasak


[05:04] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [rMANUAL8abc05fe2ddc: Update thin margin for hidden panel] lynorian (Lyn Perrine) committed: https://phab.lubuntu.me/rMANUAL8abc05fe2ddc
 @tsimonq2 @wxl I remeber long time ago you had an idea of porting plank, I found this, https://github.com/dangvd/ksmoothdock  maybe we could package it.
 are there any 20.10 iso? To start testing.
 20.10 isos have been building for a while now. I have been testing them periodically as have others.
 good, where can I download them? I didn't found the link here https://phab.lubuntu.me/w/testing/
 either http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/   or    http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/lubuntu/daily-live/current/
 thx!
 any idea why they're using sha256 instead of md5 a tleast in http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/lubuntu/daily-live/current/ ?
 I think either are probably suitable for the need but md5 is only a 128 bit algorithm where as sha256 is obviously 256 bit
 mmm, we have virtualkeyboard in the daily.
 I am not seeing that.
 mmm, now I dont see it to.
 maybe it's int he live only, and coul make sense
 I didn't see it in live either but I need to test it on hardware and not a virtual machine.
 I tested in vbox, in the panel there was a keyboard icon, from which you  could toogel a vrtual keybord
 (Photo, 784x595) https://i.imgur.com/Y3Mz1RL.jpg @kc2bez I was worried that quarentine was getting me mad, but I found it
 Ah, so it sits in the tray but doesn't really pop-up the virtual keyboard.
 mm it is "Input Method"


[04:17] (daf/#launchpad) jordi: hmm, I can probably come over
[04:17] (daf/#launchpad) jordi: it will take a while
[04:17] (G0SUB/#launchpad) jordi hello!
[04:18] (jordi/#launchpad) oh
[04:18] (jordi/#launchpad) not come over
[04:18] (jordi/#launchpad) on irc I guess
[04:18] (jordi/#launchpad) come over tomorrow
[04:18] (jordi/#launchpad) but IRC right now will be good
[04:18] (jordi/#launchpad) just to get started
[04:18] (mdz/#launchpad) daf: has no one talked to you yet about attending the localization sprint with us?
[04:22] <daf> jordi: oh, ok
[04:22] <daf> mdz: yes
[04:23] <daf> mdz: I'm booked in to the K+K from tonight
[04:23] <daf> mdz: I'll hang around depending on how long you need me
[04:24] <daf> mdz: I hope your interweb sucks less than ours
[04:24] <daf> jordi: what's up?
[04:24] <mdz> daf: just hoping to get a heads up for what we'll need to talk about tomorrow for jp
[04:25] <jordi> daf: our intenret thing is pretty ok here
[04:25] <Martolod> lol
[04:25] <Martolod> ping daf.org ^^
[04:25] <Martolod> i'm so stupid sometimes...
[04:25] <daf> mdz: issues I'm aware of are fonts and input
[04:26] <daf> mdz: and possibly making the language selector do the right thing
[04:26] <mdz> daf: some community members have been assembling a wiki page with known issues in CJK support
[04:26] <mdz> daf: japanese seems to be under-represented as well
[04:26] <mdz> daf: if you could add known japanese issues to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BetterCJKSupportSpecification that would help
[04:27] <mdz> daf: what does the language selector do wrong presently?
[04:28] <daf> don't know; I haven't used it
[04:28] <daf> I have a setup where I can happily switch between latin/ja/zh input
[04:30] <daf> I don't use ko, though
[04:31] <G0SUB> SteveA
[04:33] <jordi> hey G0SUB
[04:33] <jordi> so you said you now need a website.
[04:33] <G0SUB> jordi hello!
[04:33] <G0SUB> jordi yeah!
[04:33] <jordi> G0SUB: but you can already start translating in Rosetta, right?
[04:33] <G0SUB> jordi we are doing that all the time :)
[04:34] <G0SUB> jordi the objective of the Indian LoCo team is not just l10n btw ...
[04:35] <G0SUB> jordi l10n is just a part of it ...
[04:35] <jordi> I know
[04:35] <jordi> I'm asking about the translation part, which is my occupation herE ;)
[04:36] <G0SUB> jordi hehe, no issues with that :)
[04:37] <jordi> k :)
[04:37] <jordi> G0SUB: do you think we should deactivagte be_IN for now?
[04:37] <G0SUB> jordi yes, I guess I have already requested carlos to do that ...
[04:38] <jordi> carlos: did that happen?
[04:38] <G0SUB> it's bn_IN btw :)
[04:38] <jordi> doh
[04:38] <jordi> that's it :)
[04:38] <jordi> too many conversations going on I'm afraid :)
[04:38] <G0SUB> hehe
[04:39] <G0SUB> be is for Martolod I guess
[04:39] <G0SUB> and it has no IN locale .... :)
[04:42] <Martolod> hum ?
[04:42] <Martolod> yes i have not my team ready yet... :-
[04:42] <Martolod> :(
[04:48] <jordi> Martolod: soon, I promise
[04:48] <jordi> your request is there
[04:53] <Martolod> ok
[05:00] <G0SUB> elmo ping
[05:04] <CarlFK> how do I mark a bug as a dupe?>
[05:04] <CarlFK> arg - found it
[05:06] <carlos> stub: hi, my merge has been on pqm queue for more than an hour now. please, could you check if it's due the connection limit? (I was disconnected so I'm not sure if you saw it or answered it already...)
[05:18] <stub> carlos: all seems happy
[05:19] <stub> What time will cprov be in the office tomorrow?
[05:19] <carlos> stub: so it's not stalled?
[05:19] <stub> I need to schedule tomorrows update
[05:19] <stub> carlos: no
[05:21] <carlos> ok
[05:22] <G0SUB> carlos is elmo available?
[05:22] <carlos> stub: thanks. If it fails I will need some help to get it merged tomorrow... I will send you an email if that's the case
[05:22] <carlos> G0SUB: don't know, he's not here....
[05:22] <G0SUB> carlos is he the only person who handles @ubuntu.com aliases?
[05:23] <carlos> G0SUB: I think Znarl does it too
[05:23] <G0SUB> Znarl ping :)
[05:23] <G0SUB> carlos ok
[05:24] <Znarl> G0SUB : Pong?
[05:25] <G0SUB> Znarl can you fix my @ubuntu.com alias?
[05:25] <Znarl> G0SUB : Yes, can you email<EMAIL_ADDRESS>your request please?
[05:25] <G0SUB> Znarl sure :)
[05:29] <G0SUB> Znarl done :)
[05:30] <Znarl> Thanks.
[05:31] <G0SUB> Znarl will it be fixed now or will it take some time?
[05:32] <Znarl> G0SUB : It will take some time.
[05:32] <G0SUB> ok, thanks
[05:48] <mdz> can anyone check OOPS-72C564 for me?
[05:48] <Ubugtu> https://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/~jamesh/oops.cgi/72C564
[05:49] <mdz> I suppose there is still a 10-minute delay
[07:23] <LaserJock> anybody know if failed builds are retried?
[08:00] <jordi> daf: when are you coming here?
[08:09] <jordi> anyone in the launchpad meeting?
[08:40] <oohlaf> Hello
[08:41] <oohlaf> How come registeredbranches in the code section of my launchpad user does not show product Yate, but Yate in the summary says it was registered by me?
[08:45] <LarstiQ> the code section lists branches, not products
[08:48] <oohlaf> aha
[08:48] <oohlaf> ok
[08:48] <oohlaf> just something I noticed
[08:50] <oohlaf> oh..registrant is set to VCS imports, as it is synced by launchpad
[09:05] <LarstiQ> oohlaf: ah
[09:08] <Martolod> i've received your mail jordi
[09:09] <Martolod> do you think the database will be updated for tomorow ?
[09:09] <jordi> I hope so, cant assure anything as it's out of my reach
[09:17] <Martolod> ok
[09:28] <daf> jordi: I'm at the hotel
[10:29] <Surak> hello, who's the rosetta guy so I can talk before posting a bug?
[10:36] <LarstiQ> Surak: jordi and carlos, but just start talking and perhaps others will chime in
[10:37] <Surak> i don't know if the pt_BR vlc's translations are that screwed of if rosetta got the strings from a alien source :-)
[10:38] <LaserJock> hi kiko
[10:38] <LarstiQ> Surak: ah, I think carlos would be the person to answer that, but do you have some links?
[10:38] <Surak> hum, let me see.
[10:40] <kiko> hey LaserJock
[10:40] <kiko> hey dudesters
[11:12] <Surak> LarstiQ: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/dapper/+source/vlc/+pots/vlc/pt_BR/+translate?offset=70&show=need_review
[11:13] <Surak> string 2973. it says in english: HD1000 video output and the translation says: Sada de audio EsounD - but the suggestions are correct. ('Sada de vdeo HD1000')
[11:14] <LarstiQ> Surak: do you know if this changed recently, due to dapper import perhaps?
[11:15] <Surak> I don't know. I've been looking at it for three or four days - before that, it was only occasional translations, so I did not notice.
[11:17] <LarstiQ> Surak: I agree a bug might be warranted here, or mail launchpad-users/carlos directly?
[11:18] <Surak> LarstiQ: What do you think? I like to speak with the devel before posting a bug....
[11:29] <sivang> hey kiko , is there a lauchpad sprint going on this week?
[11:32] <kiko> there is in fact
[11:32] <kiko> but not right now
[11:32] <kiko> right now
[11:32] <kiko> is time for bed
[11:32] <kiko> see you all zmorrow
[11:32] <Surak> kiko: its early, where are you now? :-)
[11:33] <kiko> londonzzz
[11:33] <Surak> kiko: go sleep. at this time you can't even find a bar over there :-)
[11:33] <sivang> kiko: night dude
[11:33] <kiko> I am not considering bars right now
[11:34] <kiko> instead I am kicking PQM in the guts
[11:34] <kiko> accept me patches yarrrrr
[11:34] <Surak> :-)
[11:37] <sivang> kiko-zzz: still doing you bad that PQM?
[11:37] <kiko-zzz> friggin pqm
[11:39] <Surak> PQM?


[04:05] <Researcher-> hi
[04:05] <Researcher-> good morning
[07:37] <pavlushka> Hello Researcher !
[08:37] <elacheche> Hey!
[08:37] <Kilos> hi elacheche
[10:49] <Researcher-> hi
[10:49] <Researcher-> :)
[10:49] <Kilos> hi Researcher-
[10:50] <Researcher-> yo man
[10:50] <Researcher-> whats up and how it goes
[10:50] <Kilos> all ok here ty and there?
[10:52] <Researcher-> same bro
[10:52] <Researcher-> today i am trying to re cycle one old mac book pro
[10:52] <Researcher-> :)
[10:52] <Researcher-> MBP 2007
[10:52] <Kilos> hehe
[10:52] <Researcher-> between to be honest better then core i3
[10:52] <Researcher-> :D
[10:53] <Kilos> you using hackintosh
[10:55] <Researcher-> nope
[10:55] <Researcher-> actually i am going to hit interpid on it .
[10:55] <Researcher-> :)
[10:55] <Kilos> ah
[10:55] <Researcher-> i know interpid only works well with such model
[10:55] <Researcher-> :)
[10:56] <Researcher-> but right now you will surprise to see the desktop
[10:56] <Researcher-> almost all latest software i have installed including working openvpn on mac os x 10.6.8
[10:56] <Researcher-> which is un believeable for people using MBP 2015
[10:56] <Researcher-> :p
[10:56] <Kilos> keep it up
[10:59] <Researcher-> between
[10:59] <Researcher-> mac claim these are un supported
[10:59] <Researcher-> but i think they are still very useful
[10:59] <Researcher-> i am big fan of Darwin.. actually it is one of the true OS
[10:59] <Kilos> i enjoy playing with old pcs and making them work again
[11:00] <Researcher-> yeah i like this hobby too
[11:11] <Researcher-> wb kilos
[11:11] <Researcher-> :)
[11:26] <Kilos> ty
[11:28] <Researcher-> Kilos : you mission is critical :)
[11:28] <Researcher-> how i can help you ?
[11:29] <Kilos> we need to all get together and collect all relevant information and then i can take it to the council
[11:29] <Kilos> with all the facts from many people then things will be changed
[11:31] <Kilos> pavel is busy for a while but he has gathered some and i have some from other guys so its just filling in the gaps then we can move forward
[11:33] <Researcher-> between can you clarify with relevant information ?
[11:33] <Researcher-> what kind of statics you people are gathering
[11:33] <Researcher-> and do you have a strong access to counsil or you are just doing by believing in your fate
[11:33] <Researcher-> ?
[11:37] <Kilos> i need all the info about why locos are collapsing
[11:37] <Kilos> and the causes
[11:38] <Kilos> there can be no place for personall problems in a loco
[11:39] <Kilos> i am on the membership board and i am looking into reviving locos with the loco councils  approval because they are all busy
[11:44] <Researcher-> i can understand that
[11:45] <Researcher-> between
[11:46] <Kilos> elacheche is gonna help as well
[11:46] <Kilos> he also just got married
[11:46] <Researcher-> what is the bottom line... are you guys collecting the statics proposed reasons for  failures of loco team because i.e inactivity on IRC ... or you guys are here to find out the real cause ?
[11:47] <Researcher-> i am i am still confuse .. are you here to help us .. the users or loco team leaders or your own self ?
[11:48] <Kilos> inactivity on irc , not approving new members in the loco and not approving new guys to join the mailing lists etc
[11:49] <Kilos> i get nothing out of it except pleasure when a group gets going again as things should be
[11:49] <Kilos> i want to see locos all over working happily as teams
[11:51] <Kilos> i have been spoiled in #ubuntu-za . everyone is friendly to everyone else and helps wherever they can
[11:51] <Kilos> i would like to see all locos operating the same way
[11:55] <Kilos> this all started because one guy applied for ubuntu membership on his own with no support or guidance from his loco
[11:55] <Kilos> that is what i would like to solve
[12:00] <Kilos> oh just read scroll back, i want to know the real cause of course
[12:02] <Kilos> if the cause is poor admins then they need to move over and let someone else do the job
[12:07] <Researcher-> respect for your efforts
[12:07] <Researcher-> same happened in Pakistan too
[12:08] <Researcher-> no leader no proper guidence
[12:08] <Kilos> yes
[12:10] <Kilos> only if we all work together can we sort this out, even if we all attend a council meeting just to get the facts through
[12:12] <Researcher-> i agree you
[12:12] <Researcher-> participation is must ..
[12:12] <Researcher-> task management and activity monitoring is must to make the improvements.
[12:13] <Researcher-> so far i offered on facebook ubuntu loco teams that i will provide domain / hosting / vps even dedicated server for the ubuntu related or ubuntu oriented projects ..
[12:14] <Researcher-> and i found some queries but unfortunately those were not opensource.
[12:18] <Kilos> just do what you can, and invited pakistani people to join us here so we can grow the movement from here
[12:19] <Kilos> i have two other membership board members helping as well, but being working people their time is limitted
[12:32] <Researcher-> yes sure...
[12:32] <Researcher-> I am linked with a large pakistani comunity of I.T people here..
[12:32] <Researcher-> i offer free ubuntu related help via teamviewer
[12:33] <Kilos> cool
[12:33] <Kilos> great
[12:33] <Researcher-> also i recommend everyone.. to use ubuntu
[12:33] <Researcher-> for me now only ubuntu is too much handy
[12:33] <Kilos> see, thats the kind of spirit all ubuntu users should have
[12:34] <Researcher-> even if you check ubuntulog
[12:34] <Researcher-> you will see only my nick and my other nick shani here
[12:34] <Researcher-> i never left this channel even it was dead
[12:34] <Kilos> thanks for that
[12:35] <Kilos> now encourage others to come back here
[12:35] <Researcher-> no need for that ..
[12:35] <Researcher-> :)
[12:35] <Researcher-> yes but
[12:35] <Researcher-> i wanted to create few bot here..
[12:35] <Researcher-> ubuntu related bots
[12:36] <Researcher-> i wanted to link a bug tracker here ..
[12:36] <Researcher-> i want to add a protection bot
[12:36] <Researcher-> i want to have a loco team cloaks
[12:36] <Researcher-> i need few active people mission critical people who can spend time here like you and me doing
[12:37] <Researcher-> and obviously membership board is here itself .. so i think this is the best
[12:37] <Kilos> well, im not clued up with technical stuff but ill help where i can
[12:37] <Researcher-> yes sure
[12:38] <Researcher-> Kilos very basic is ubuntu-pk.org
[12:38] <Researcher-> i want to make it alive
[12:38] <Researcher-> how i can do that i need your guidence ..
[12:38] <Kilos> thats the whole plan yes
[12:39] <Researcher-> between I have lot of VPS all ubuntu based
[12:39] <Kilos> do you have admin rights on the channel?
[12:40] <Researcher-> i have a hobby that i test the low end boxses / low spec vps to see how new hosting companies are doing
[12:40] <Kilos> ok
[12:40] <Researcher-> even i ran my own hosting companies in the past
[12:40] <Researcher-> lebnodes.com
[12:40] <Researcher-> xsroute.com
[12:41] <Researcher-> and now my upcoming projects .. ivmcloud.com
[12:41] <Researcher-> but they are still not complete only mockups are uploaded
[12:42] <Researcher-> also some undeveloping projects like omanbuysell.com / shopnshake.com / jobvisagulf.com / hostnet.work
[12:42] <Researcher-> try to keep ITGuy alive inside me
[12:42] <Researcher-> :)
[12:42] <Kilos> :D
[12:44] <Kilos> encourage people to get involved
[12:44] <Researcher-> sure
[12:44] <Researcher-> :)


  My brother was visiting for the weekend (he's on a six month contract working in Cairns)
[07:46] <jamesh> so of course he was complaining about how cold it is here ...
[07:50] <didrocks> hey duflu, jamesh
[08:00] <willcooke> morning all
[08:03] <didrocks> hey willcooke
[08:04] <oSoMoN> morning willcooke
[08:04] <Laney> hey
[08:07] <seb128> hey oSoMoN willcooke Laney
[08:07] <seb128> hey duflu
[08:08] <oSoMoN> hi Laney
[08:08] <didrocks> hey Laney
[08:08] <seb128> did everybody had a good w.e?
[08:09]  * willcooke -> sunburnt
[08:09] <duflu> Morning willcooke, Laney
[08:10] <seb128> willcooke, played golf?
[08:10] <willcooke> seb128, yeah, plus some gardening
[08:10] <willcooke> it was really windy so I didnt realise the sun was so strong
[08:10] <duflu> OK, silly question: What Intel architecture does ILK stand for? It must be in the _past_ despite sounding like one that's in the future....
[08:12] <willcooke> duflu, at a guess I'd say the LK bit of ILK is probably "lake"
[08:12] <duflu> willcooke: Yes but it must be in the past. The only I-Lake appears to be in the future :)
[08:13] <willcooke> duflu, Ironlake, 2009?
[08:13] <duflu> willcooke: Winner! Probably... thanks
[08:13] <willcooke> duflu, not sure that's a CPU.. Wikipedia says "Gfx controller and memory controller hub"
[08:14] <duflu> willcooke: Yes, still correct. That's why I could not find it. This doc mixes and matches all the codewords
[08:14] <willcooke> ah :)
[08:15] <Laney> hey seb128 oSoMoN didrocks duflu willcooke
[08:15] <Laney> what's new?
[08:15] <duflu> <insert witty comment about British politics here>
[08:16]  * Laney nods gravely
[08:16] <oSoMoN> I had an excellent week-end, went camping with friends, got loads of sun, beer, BBQ and fun with kids, lost track of time until late in the evening yesterday
[08:16] <oSoMoN> how about you seb128?
[08:16] <willcooke> oSoMoN, awesome!
[08:17] <willcooke> Yesterday I made this work:  https://www.banggood.com/433Mhz-Decoding-Transceiver-USB-Transfer-Frequency-Module-For-Smart-Home-p-1123784.html
[08:17] <duflu> willcooke: Actually that makes sense. Not long after ILK they started being properly integrated GPUs, so referred to by the CPU arch
[08:17] <willcooke> duflu, ahh, right - so that was the last of the "discrete" gfx cards?
[08:18] <duflu> willcooke: Yes, will discretely separate on the motherboard
[08:18] <duflu> -will +well,
[08:42] <willcooke> seb128, Laney  -  I've got a call with AWS tomorrow which looks like it will overlap with the start of the meeting.   Well just because I can get good pizza again :-D
[09:01] <Trevinho> https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/A0FfyquJ/20170611_212326.jpg
[09:01] <Trevinho> andyrock: exactly... ;-)
[09:02] <seb128> willcooke, Laney, I can do as well for the meeting
[09:02] <seb128> Laney, as you prefer
[09:02] <Trevinho> seb128: hi seb128
[09:02] <seb128> hey andyrock Trevinho
[09:02] <seb128> Trevinho, had a good trip? happy to be back on the old continent?
[09:02] <andyrock> willcooke: seb128 btw this is the ppa https://code.launchpad.net/~azzar1/+archive/ubuntu/software-properties-lp
[09:02] <andyrock> it should be stable enough
[09:03] <andyrock> :D
[09:03] <andyrock> I moved the switch in updates panel
[09:03] <willcooke> nice andyrock, thanks
[09:03] <andyrock> the password is<EMAIL_ADDRESS>- password1 - otp 1111
[09:03] <willcooke> andyrock, we have the livepatch meeting this week too - so can you arrange a demo?
[09:04] <Trevinho> seb128: very good trip (China airways has an amazing airbus a350-900, never had a such silent flight [really I didn't either noticed we were taking off].. With legs support)
[09:04] <andyrock> there are no notifications yet but I guess yes
[09:04] <andyrock> this should work
[09:04] <seb128> andyrock, ah, nice
[09:05] <Trevinho> seb128: and... Staying in Rome for 2 days was great.... I love that city. Not sure how long I'll stick to my place tho :-)
[09:05] <andyrock> I've to remove a couple of hacks, but from the user point of view should be the same
[09:09] <seb128> Trevinho, :-)
[09:16] <Laney> seb128: you can do the next one ;-)
[09:16] <Laney> did you get back ok & have a good weekend?
[09:18] <seb128> Laney, thanks, let's do a rotation, I do it next time there is one to lead :-)
[09:18] <seb128> yeah, trip back was fine
[09:18] <seb128> 1 hour from office to airport gate
[09:18] <jibel> duflu, I don't think screen not blanking during video playback is a duplicate of bug 1692762
[09:18] <seb128> I was back home unpa
[09:19] <jibel> duflu, in my case I am using gdm
[09:19] <Laney> covfefe?
[09:19] <seb128> I was back home unpacked/showered by 19:30
[09:19] <Laney> nice
[09:19] <duflu> jibel: Ah, yes there was another bug for GDM.....
[09:19] <duflu> Somewhere
[09:19] <seb128> w.e was nice, friends over on saturday, walk in the wood to avoid the heat yesterday, then french open conclusion on tv
[09:19] <seb128> how was your w.e?
[09:20] <duflu> jibel: Yeah sorry, it's opposite. I'll update your bug with additional thoughts
[09:21] <jibel> bug 1647213 maybe ?
[09:21] <jibel> but screen blanking works fine, just video playback is a problem
[09:22] <Laney> seb128: got some new house plants, went to a new pasta restaurant, allotment, climbing
[09:22] <Laney> good weekend!
[09:25] <oSoMoN> jibel, duflu: I’ll look into bug #1697373 , it could very well be that chrom[e|ium] is not using the appropriate d-bus iface to request inhibiting screen blanking
[09:25] <jibel> oSoMoN, okay, let me know if you need more info
[09:25] <duflu> oSoMoN, yes. Just commented on it. We should keep the topic in the bug...
[09:30] <jamesh> oSoMoN: here's the relevant code: https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromium/src.git/+/master/device/power_save_blocker/power_save_blocker_x11.cc
[09:30] <jamesh> it's using the org.freedesktop.Screensaver and org.freedesktop.PowerManagement interfaces
[09:32] <oSoMoN> jamesh, ack, I was thinking that maybe PowerSaveBlocker::Delegate::SelectAPI() incorrectly detects the DE and selects the wrong API, but need to look further into it to confirm
[09:34] <jamesh> oSoMoN: except that function seems to treat Unity and GNOME the same
[09:35] <duflu> Seems that DPMSEnabled() depends on an XDisplay. So Xwayland would need to be OK with providing DPMS
[09:35] <duflu> else NO_API
[09:36] <duflu> Yes, 'xset dpms ...' commands fail on Wayland
[09:36] <duflu> Even with Xwayland
[09:38] <duflu> and 'xset q' says "Display is not capable of DPMS"
[09:38] <jamesh> xdpyinfo would give you the list of supported extensions
[09:39] <duflu> jamesh: Yes, but the extension being present is not the same as the Xwayland display being capable :)
[09:39] <duflu> Xwayland loads the DPMS extension and says "no"
[09:40] <jamesh> ah.
[09:50] <duflu> oSoMoN: Upstream Xorg/Xwayland is different, but Ubuntu seems to use dpmsstubs.c for Xwayland...
[09:50] <duflu> Bool
[09:50] <duflu> DPMSSupported(void)
[09:50] <duflu> {
[09:50] <duflu>     return FALSE;
[09:50] <duflu> }
[10:11] <Laney> ah man, forgot to bring my headphones to the library
[10:12] <duflu> Sorry, I'll keep it down
[10:12] <duflu> Or make dinner
[12:13] <Laney> ok, NOW I'm on Shell
[12:58] <Laney> keep looking top right for the time :(
[13:00] <chrisccoulson> I keep looking on the wrong monitor for the time
[13:01] <Laney> not seen it on multiple monitors yet
[13:02] <jibel> with the extension to move it to the top right it's okay. I miss the world clock in the indicator though.
[13:04] <chrisccoulson> Laney, it's not great on multiple monitors. Particularly when you're working on the secondary screen, with application menus on the other monitor
[13:07] <seb128> jibel, https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/697/panel-world-clock/ might work?
[13:08] <ricotz> gnome-clocks can add several locations/timezones to date/time dropdown
[13:08] <ricotz> chrisccoulson, hi
[13:10] <jibel> ricotz, how? I tried but nothing appears in the indicator
[13:11] <ricotz> jibel, I simply added some locations in gnome-clocks and then they appear in g-s
[13:12] <chrisccoulson> hi ricotz
[13:12] <ricotz> same goes for gnome-weather
[13:13] <ricotz> chrisccoulson, did you notice the ubufox proposals?
[13:13] <chrisccoulson> ricotz, yeah
[13:13] <chrisccoulson> I'm getting rid of that though
[13:13] <ricotz> chrisccoulson, I see
[13:14] <ricotz> chrisccoulson, also *please* answer even if it is days later
[13:14] <jibel> adding locations to gnome-clocks doesn't add anything and gnome-clocks does not even start on a fresh installation
[13:15] <ricotz> jibel, oh, sounds like dependency missing
[13:15] <jibel> seb128, and the extension fails to run
[13:15] <seb128> :-/
[13:15] <seb128> do you get any error trying to start gnome-clocks?
[13:16] <jibel> seb128, no
[13:16] <seb128> just hanging?
[13:16] <jibel> seb128, it returns immediately and nothing printed on the console
[13:16] <seb128> is there any corresponding process already started?
[13:17] <jibel> seb128, hold on, it was already running
[13:17] <seb128> :-)
[13:17] <jibel> killed and restart and it works
[13:17] <seb128> including adding locations to the shell?
[13:18] <jibel> seb128, I can add locations to the clocks but are the location supposed to be shown somewhere else?
[13:19] <jibel> seb128, I mean in the panel for instance
[13:19] <seb128> in the calendar applet from whell
[13:19] <seb128> shell
[13:19] <jibel> nope
[13:22] <seb128> worth reporting an upstream bug then I guess
[13:23] <seb128> jibel, it's supposed to be like in https://bug745111.bugzilla-attachments.gnome.org/attachment.cgi?id=297802
[13:24] <seb128> well that bug shows a RTL issue but the the items are at the bottom so it gives an idea how it should be
[13:26] <chrisccoulson> oSoMoN, have you tried running the latest chromium on x86 too? I didn't try that last week with the other bug, but I just tried it now. It crashes on startup on every release except zesty for me
[13:28] <jibel> seb128, right, that's what I expect too but there is nothing below the calendar
[13:29] <seb128> jibel, try maybe to desactivate the extension that move the clock just in case?
[13:29] <seb128> and did you try to restart the session/shell§?
[13:30] <jibel> i'll reboot again after my meeting
[13:38] <oSoMoN> chrisccoulson, no I hadn’t :/ thanks for reporting
[13:46] <jbicha> seb128: perhaps users do prefer window buttons on the right?
[13:46] <jbicha> https://insights.ubuntu.com/2017/06/12/ubuntu-desktop-gnome-extensions-poll-results/
[13:46] <seb128> jbicha, hey
[13:47] <seb128> jbicha, you never give up do you :-)
[13:47] <jbicha> well you said you thought our users preferred left?
[13:48] <kenvandine> lol
[13:48] <kenvandine> it's close
[13:49] <kenvandine> imo with apps using the gtkheaderbar, it can be a little awkward with the controls on the left, for some apps
[13:58] <seb128> jbicha, I said they might, also I'm not convinced that readers for that website are an accurate representation of the Ubuntu userbase but we don't really have other data or easy ways to get those
[13:59] <kenvandine> yeah, survey's are really tough
[13:59] <kenvandine> the users that are mostly likely to complete them are the ones that want change
[13:59] <seb128> jbicha, in any case I don't strongly care either way, I just don't like the way people hate on what Ubuntu has been doing and are so eager to kill/undo things we have been doing just for the sake of doing like others are doing (which isn't a sign of better)
[14:00] <kenvandine> seb128, my only argument for moving them is it can feel weird for some apps that utilize the headerbar
[14:00] <kenvandine> like gnome-software puts a status icon on the top left while it's busy
[14:00] <seb128> yeah
[14:01] <kenvandine> and to stop it, it looks like the maximise
[14:01] <kenvandine> similar
[14:01] <kenvandine> apps like these assume the controls on the right
[14:01] <seb128> it's more standard with other OSes on the right and left creates some bugs
[14:01] <seb128> it's just a change for our users
[14:01] <kenvandine> yeah, it'll be hard for me to get used to moving them to the right myself :)
[14:02] <kenvandine> but personally i think we'd be better off moving them again
[14:02] <seb128> tricky balance to annoy your existing users to please potential new ones that you might end up not getting
[14:02] <kenvandine> yeah
[14:02] <mitya57> That apps' assumption is wrong in any case. No matter what is default, buttons on left should be a supported option and not cause confusion.
[14:02] <seb128> right
[14:02] <kenvandine> true
[14:04] <cyphermox> seb128: I think caribou is missing a subscription by ~desktop-packages for its MIR> bug 1685867
[14:04] <kenvandine> the only app i recall seeing that seemed awkward with the buttons on the left was gnome-software
[14:04] <kenvandine> but there might be others
[14:05] <cyphermox> seb128: but also, I think there should be some work done to merge ~desktop-bugs and ~desktop-packages, since both are meant to just track which packages you want to get the bugs for -- anything in main for the desktop team should pretty obviously be tracked.
[14:06] <seb128> cyphermox, hey, we use ~desktop-bugs afaik
[14:08] <seb128> shrug
[14:08] <seb128> wth
[14:08] <seb128> I don't find the team in the list
[14:08] <seb128> add myself as admin
[14:09] <seb128> refresh
[14:09] <seb128> and now the team is subscribed
[14:09] <cyphermox> well, according to all doc in the MIR team and according to the "master list" it's ~desktop-packages
[14:09] <cyphermox> ta
[14:09] <seb128> well it's not me (I think?)
[14:09] <Beret> given a USB key pre-loaded with an Ubuntu daily image - is there a way to determine which daily it is by chance?
[14:09] <Beret> any metadata anywhere that would give that away?
[14:09] <seb128> cyphermox, where is the page that lists the official team?
[14:10] <cyphermox> Beret: .disk/info
[14:10] <kenvandine> we were confused by this a few weeks ago
[14:10] <Beret> cyphermox, thanks
[14:10] <cyphermox> seb128: http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/m-r-package-team-mapping.html
[14:11] <cyphermox> that comes from http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-archive/ubuntu-archive-tools/trunk/view/head:/package-subscribers#L107
[14:13] <cyphermox> seb128: also, sorry, I only pick on you because you're the last admin reachable on that list, I do realise this is old stuff, hence why the need to merge both lists
[14:13] <cyphermox> cf. https://launchpad.net/~desktop-packages/+members#active
[14:14] <seb128> cyphermox, it's not anyone was still looking to those report pages :p
[14:14] <cyphermox> seb128: well, the team list report is not all that interesting
[14:15] <cyphermox> the point is just that anything in main should have some team responsible for, and getting the bug mail
[14:15] <seb128> cyphermox, anyway we have been using  ~desktop-bugs mostly for those in recent cycles I think
[14:16] <seb128> at least I did use that one and got often pinged to do the subscription
[14:16] <seb128> dunno who just did the caribou one
[14:16] <seb128> kenvandine?
[14:16] <kenvandine> nope
[14:16] <kenvandine> at least not today
[14:16] <kenvandine> i think i did some a few weeks ago
[14:17] <seb128> dunno who did then
[14:17] <kenvandine> magic
[14:19] <Laney> I did caribou on 11 May
[14:19] <jbicha> gnome-tweak-tool's headerbar is a bit odd with 3 window buttons on the left (it increases the size of the left sidebar)
[14:20] <cyphermox> could be on my request
[14:20] <kenvandine> it was on our MIR list, so probably
[14:20] <jbicha> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/783557
[14:20] <cyphermox> I must have failed to follow through asking for the other team's subscription
[14:21] <Laney> should we do a script to move everything over from desktop-bugs to desktop-packages?
[14:21] <seb128> Laney, k, dunno why Steve commented on the bug saying it's not done
[14:21] <seb128> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/caribou/+subscriptions lists it
[14:21] <cyphermox> Laney: the other way around, I think
[14:21] <seb128> Laney, desktop-bugs is the right one no?
[14:21] <cyphermox> since you already use desktop-bugs, and it has more admins, etc.
[14:21] <Laney> I don't know what right means
[14:22] <Laney> I thought you were saying that right means the ones the reports look at
[14:22] <seb128> I think desktop-bugs is the one we have been historically using
[14:22] <Laney> not that it really matters
[14:22] <Laney> well it's the one I'm admin of, so the only one I could have used :p
[14:22] <jbicha> maybe desktop-bugs is not used by component-mismatches?
[14:22] <seb128> but I don't care strongly either way if somebody wants to reverse that
[14:23] <seb128> jbicha, component-mismatches uses teams for what?
[14:23] <jbicha> or packages?
[14:23] <seb128> for what?
[14:23] <jbicha> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/component-mismatches.html
[14:23] <seb128> I didn't even know component-mismatches cares about bugs subscribers
[14:23] <cyphermox> jbicha: that's just code, trivial to change.
[14:24] <jbicha> sure
[14:24] <seb128> I like how people reply to questions with urls
[14:24] <seb128> not sure if I should feel offended by the suggestion I don't know the url of component mismatch ;-)
[14:24] <jbicha> seb128: it shows some packages as unsubscribed if it doesn't find one of the right teams subscribed
[14:25] <seb128> jbicha, I don't think those categories matter much
[14:25] <seb128> but yeah we should probably make it look at the right set
[14:25] <jbicha> we could just ask slangasek what it was exactly that he saw; I was just guessing
[14:25] <seb128> on e.u.c the package set is "ubuntu-desktop"
[14:25] <seb128> so we do have mismatches between different tools and reports
[14:25] <seb128> and it's confusing
[14:26] <seb128> but that "team mapping" things is poorly defined
[14:26] <seb128> or documented
[14:26] <cyphermox> there's a point to having something separate from the ~ubuntu-desktop and whatever are MIRed packages.
[14:27] <Laney> the packageset is different from the 'owner'
[14:27] <cyphermox> indeed.
[14:27] <seb128> what's the difference?
[14:27] <Laney> upload rights
[14:27] <Laney> vs canonical's support commitment
[14:28] <seb128> which one define the group of packages we care about?
[14:28] <willcooke> oSoMoN, Cr. in Artful - I can't move the window with touch. Works elsewhere. Any ideas?
[14:28] <seb128> because imho we want to look at the same set of packages for e.u.c and component mismatch
[14:28] <seb128> no?
[14:29] <Laney> dunno
[14:29] <Laney> main / universe is a support thing
[14:29] <Laney> so it probably makes sense for component mismatches
[14:30] <Laney> and I think errors.ubuntu.com can look at team subscribers already
[14:30] <seb128> indeed
[14:31] <Laney> maybe you do want both there
[14:31] <seb128> I don't know, I'm a bit confused now
[14:31] <Laney> like: what are the biggest problems in the packages my team supports commercially? and: what are the biggest problems I can directly fix?
[14:31] <seb128> I think we want one way to list the packages we "care about"
[14:31] <seb128> and know about issues in that list
[14:32] <Laney> you can answer both with the options available on errors currently
[14:32] <seb128> errors, component mismatch, release targetted bugs, etc
[14:33] <seb128> right
[14:33] <seb128> well, then we need to decide on what we standardize between desktop-packages and desktop-bugs
[14:33] <seb128> does anyone know the history of why we got a second one
[14:33] <seb128> and how they have been used?
[14:33] <seb128> to me the one has always been ~desktop-bugs
[14:34] <seb128> pedro is the owner of the other one
[14:34] <seb128> and it has only 4 members
[14:34] <seb128> I think he might have created it to make qa reports for desktop
[14:35] <Laney> no clue
[14:35] <cyphermox> the story that was relayed to me was that there was a disagreement in what the packages should be that desktop looks at.
[14:35] <seb128> that's probably true :-)
[14:35] <seb128> https://launchpad.net/~desktop-packages/+related-packages is empty
[14:36] <seb128> I guess that page is not what tells you what packages you are subscribed to?
[14:36] <cyphermox> nope
[14:36] <seb128> ah
[14:36] <seb128> https://bugs.launchpad.net/~desktop-packages/+packagebugs
[14:36] <cyphermox> in that sense, having a split between what you use to get mail vs. what you care about makes "some" sense, but nothing that couldn't be achieved by mail filters either
[14:37] <seb128> yeah
[14:37] <seb128> anyway ~desktop-packages has things that are not owned by use
[14:38] <cyphermox> how so?
[14:38] <cyphermox> because all that is in there is what the desktop team is supposed to be responsible for supporting
[14:38] <seb128> us
[14:38] <seb128> no, ~desktop-bugs is
[14:38] <cyphermox> not according to the MIR team doc.
[14:38] <seb128> it's a wiki
[14:39] <seb128> whoever edited that got it wrong
[14:39] <seb128> we are not maintaining e.g quilt
[14:39] <seb128> or texinfo
[14:39] <cyphermox> or whomever forgot to update things after changing the team?
[14:39] <seb128> could be
[14:39] <seb128> or iputils
[14:40] <cyphermox> could also be that you inherited quilt/texinfo at some point because it was pulled in by something else the desktop needed.
[14:40] <cyphermox> because at this point, we're looking at hysterical data, and no amount of trying to reason it will bear much fruit
[14:40] <cyphermox> (ie. I don't know, I wasn't there)
[14:41] <seb128> nice try but you are not dumping those of us no :p)
[14:41] <cyphermox> and also, I understand it might not make sense to you, but that's the current state of things, if things need to be shuffled around, then that would be up to managers to get to agree about it.
[14:42] <Laney> there's a bit of a fiction about it all isn't there
[14:42] <Laney> even if it says quilt, nobody really thinks that the desktop team maintains that
[14:42] <cyphermox> Laney: there's a lot of things which just always happen to be grey area too
[14:43] <cyphermox> Laney: in theory, it means the desktop team would be responsible for it, if it's in that list
[14:43] <seb128> in any case those list have a stack of old deprecated-moved-out-of-main things or even deleted from current ubuntu
[14:43] <seb128> like xchat-gnome
[14:43] <cyphermox> ie. on rls-aa-(incoming|tracking) it would show "desktop-packages", and some people might skip over that section
[14:43] <Laney> it's a lot like copyright review
[14:43] <seb128> we should probably clean whatever list we decide we want to use
[14:43] <Laney> you get things in shape for the start
[14:43] <Laney> and then nobody cares
[14:44] <seb128> yeah
[14:44] <cyphermox> Laney: of course
[14:44] <seb128> until somebody comes back to you saying that the some bug is sorted under your section on some reports
[14:44] <Laney> but I'm peanut gallery so I should stop commenting :-)
[14:44] <cyphermox> seb128: well, then we're also all kind of intelligent enough to get to a consensus.
[14:45] <cyphermox> ie. quilt may be listed there, but someone would either fix it regarless of the team, or more likely, correctly deem it as not being release critical?
[14:46] <seb128> you could use that argument for any package and argue that those lists are useless
[14:46] <seb128> (which I mostly think they are)
[14:46] <cyphermox> I don't think so. It helps to make sure it's easy for you to look at the bugs you care about in late release, for instance
[14:46] <cyphermox> when looking at rls-aa
[14:46] <seb128> (except that people sometime do come telling us that we need to fix something because it's sorted under our section)
[14:46] <cyphermox> or when you work on component-mismatches, NBS,  etc.
[14:47] <Laney> I wouldn't work on those things by owner
[14:47] <Laney> would for actual bugs though, so maybe it has some value there
[14:48] <seb128> ~desktop-packages is wrong in any case
[14:48] <seb128> it lists things like amarok
[14:48] <cyphermox> Laney: for some people it makes it easy to target just the things that have the biggest effect for their team.
[14:48] <seb128> which we never owned/touched
[14:48] <seb128> or akonadi
[14:48] <seb128> please use ~desktop-bugs
[14:48] <seb128> we can add things to it if you feel like it's missing components
[14:49] <seb128> but it's the list we maintained
[14:49] <cyphermox> it's not up to me to fix this, sorry
[14:49] <seb128> who is it?
[14:49] <seb128> can you forward to whatever is right?
[14:49] <cyphermox> I'm just there to review the MIRs, and make sure teams subscribe to the packages they want MIRed.
[14:50] <seb128> k, well we have been using ~desktop-bugs for that for years, check MIR records
[14:50] <seb128> so please accept that one as valid
[14:50] <cyphermox> I can submit an MP for the list itself, sure, but otherwise you should as a team conduct a review of both teams to clean things up
[14:50] <seb128> and let the dual team things to be sorted out by whoever cares
[14:51] <cyphermox> as far as I can tell, ~desktop-packages is what has been used for MIRs, and I've been asking about subscribing things for a few weeks now
[14:51] <cyphermox> well, since i've been reviewing desktop MIRs
[14:53] <seb128> weird
[14:53] <seb128> I wonder who has been subscribing that team to MIRs
[14:53] <seb128> since it requires an admin and pedro and I are the only ones
[14:54] <seb128> and pedro is not around/active for years and I've not been doing it
[14:56] <cyphermox> didrocks1: opinion on the team subscriber thing? since you do promotions and have been in the desktop team before?
[14:57] <cyphermox> seb128: I don't know, but I know it's a mess. There's historical data that seem to show either team have been used in the past
[14:57] <cyphermox> ie. https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/cheese/+bug/1189180
[14:57] <didrocks1> (backlogging)
[14:57] <cyphermox> what one shows desktop-packages.
[14:57] <cyphermox> s/what/that/
[14:58] <cyphermox> I think 2013 was post-pedro?
[14:58] <seb128> yes
[14:59] <cyphermox> devhelp has both, but no MIR bug...
[14:59] <seb128> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-software/+bug/1536870
[14:59] <seb128> "Ubuntu Desktop Bugs subscribed to gnome-software."
[15:00] <seb128> but it has "desktop packages" as well
[15:00] <cyphermox> yeah
[15:00] <seb128> wonder how that team is ending up here
[15:00] <didrocks1> I was never a fan of this bug reports subscribing
[15:01] <didrocks1> I feel it's a little bit like a fallacy, nobody is actually watching when you have more than 100+ packages
[15:01] <cyphermox> it does serve as a check that the team really does care about it when they agree to subscribe the team
[15:02] <cyphermox> (and you can then use it to search for bugs you're subscribed to anyway)
[15:02] <seb128> anyway, I don't think we are going to reach an agreement here
[15:02] <seb128> and I don't think it really matters or anybody really care about what those assignment lists state
[15:03] <seb128> so if somebody wants to consolidate those datas/make them less controversial they care start a discussion
[15:03] <seb128> otherwise let's just move on and keep doing what we have been doing
[15:03] <cyphermox> I don't have the time to consolidate this
[15:04] <seb128> right, so let's move on
[15:04] <cyphermox> right, so I'll just keep asking you for subscribing bugs?
[15:04] <seb128> to ~desktop-bugs?
[15:05] <seb128> :-)
[15:05] <cyphermox> to ~desktop-packages, since that's the team used for the reports.
[15:05] <seb128> anyway, I'm just remove myself from ~desktop-packages
[15:05] <Laney> hahaha
[15:05] <seb128> that leave us without admin
[15:05] <seb128> at which point you need some launchpad admin to unblock you
[15:08] <seb128> asked Steve on #ubuntu-devel
[15:09] <Laney> just did a systemd offline update on my debian vm
[15:09] <Laney> still boots ...
[15:10] <seb128> is that default/activated in Debian now?
[15:10] <seb128> or did you opt in for testing?
[15:10] <seb128> but cool :-)
[15:11] <Laney> it's what gnome-software offers
[15:11] <Laney> the UI was ugly as hell though
[15:11] <Laney> Installing foo [[15:11] <seb128> due to lack of Debian theme for that mode?
[15:13] <Laney> I guess so, but I'm not sure how themable it is atm
[15:13] <Laney> https://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/SystemUpdates/ that thing
[15:17] <jbicha> seb128: yes, it's default in Debian because Debian's GS does PK and that's the only way PK updates in GS work right now; Debian GNOME still includes Synaptic
[18:38] <kenvandine> sarnold, we're still waiting for the security review for gdm, is someone working on that?  bug 1686393
[18:38] <sarnold> kenvandine: I hope to re-start it this afternoon
[18:38] <kenvandine> sarnold, cool
[18:38] <kenvandine> thx
[19:02] <willcooke> seb128, Laney - thinking of adding a generic "Make Wayland work more good" card to Trello.  We need to spend some time looking in to it for nvidia etc.  Related:  https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=781075
[19:03] <willcooke> s/thinking ofadding/I have added
[19:03] <willcooke> it's in proposed for now, but let's discuss tomorrow in our meeting
[19:59] <robert_ancell> willcooke, can you remember Gustavo's IRC nick?
[20:01] <willcooke> robert_ancell, hi!  it's niemeyer
[21:19] <willcooke> night all


[07:41] <glyn> Hello. I just tried to install the charm tools on Mac OS X (Mavericks) via homebrew as per https://juju.ubuntu.com/docs/tools-charm-tools.html. I am using the latest version of homebrew and it is up to date. brew install juju gives me juju version 1.16.2-unknown-amd64, but this doesn't provide the charm subcommand., i.e. juju charm does not work (it gives "ERROR unrecognized command: juju charm"). I tried brew install charm-tools but this
[07:42] <glyn> juju charm now gives "Traceback (most recent call last):   File "/usr/local/bin/juju-charm", line 5, in <module>     from pkg_resources import load_entry_point ImportError: No module named pkg_resources ERROR exit status 1"
[07:43] <glyn> I just wanted to (a) point this out so the docs can be corrected and (b) see if anyone here knew how to fix the problem (assuming the docs are simply out of date).
[07:54] <glyn> I guess it's a bad time, especially in the US. I'll come back later to see if anyone was around.
[08:23] <glyn> Giving up. Some other time...
[18:38] <hazmat> jcastro, marcoceppi a github mp.. https://github.com/charms/joomla/pull/1
[18:39] <marcoceppi> hazmat: omg!
[18:39] <marcoceppi> IT'S HAPPENING
[18:40]  * marcoceppi reviews
[18:44] <hazmat> marcoceppi, :-) cool. i'm going to have some meetings next week on some foundational work items on the road to proper gh support.
[18:55] <hazmat> marcoceppi, did you see glynn's error report for charm tools on osx?
[18:55] <hazmat> er. glyn
[18:55] <marcoceppi> hazmat: yeah, it's too bad he's not on I would have told hiim to use pip for the time being
[18:55] <marcoceppi> hazmat: it's a known issue that we broke brew
[18:55] <marcoceppi> and that we're broken in brew
[18:55] <hazmat> marcoceppi, we ?
[18:55] <marcoceppi> hazmat: the royal we, charm-tools
[18:56] <marcoceppi> aka me
[18:56] <marcoceppi> :(
[18:56] <hazmat> marcoceppi, if it works in virtualenv / pip.. i'd suggest we == homebrew
[18:56] <hazmat> well that the issue lies there
[18:56] <hazmat> or the brew def thingy
[18:56] <marcoceppi> hazmat: it does, the formula isn't properly setup to work in brew
[18:57] <hazmat> gotcha
[18:57] <marcoceppi> hazmat: https://github.com/mxcl/homebrew/issues/23378#issuecomment-26665565
[19:20] <Azendale> what is the normal way of dealing with charm helpers and revision control? Should I ignore the charm helpers folder? Include it?
[19:23] <marcoceppi> Azendale: include it, it's ignored during reviews. Soon charm-helpers will be available via a debian package and you won't need to embed anymore
[19:24] <Azendale> marcoceppi: Ok, thanks
[19:26] <Azendale> marcoceppi: Trying my hand at creating an ejabberd charm, we'll see how far I get. The config file is in yaml though, so that part should be easy
[19:27] <marcoceppi> Azendale: awesome! let me know if you have any questions
[19:34] <Azendale> marcoceppi: Is it safe to assume python3 on this? Or do I need to either install python3 or just use python 2.x?
[19:35] <marcoceppi> Azendale: it depends on the series the charm is targeted to. If you target the charm at the trusty series, then python3 will be installed by default, with precise, you'll need to install it
[19:35] <marcoceppi> Azendale: it's safe to just not make any assumptions
[19:36] <Azendale> marcoceppi: what about saucy?
[19:36] <marcoceppi> Azendale: we don't recommend you target charms at non-LTS series
[19:37] <marcoceppi> Azendale: However, I'm not 100% sure of the saucy python status, to be safe just be explicit in your install hook for dpendencies
[19:41] <Azendale> marcoceppi: So, the hooks get everything from environment variables, not anything passed to them, right? I'm just thinking if I do a script that installs python3 and then calls a python3 file, do I need to pass anything on?
[19:41] <marcoceppi> Azendale: it's all environment variables, you should be fine to do that (lots of charms do)


[04:01] <superm1> i don't use xmltv personally..
[05:32] <dekarl> tgm4883, superm1: well, the storage location is $HOME/.mythtv/$NAMEOFSOURCE.xmltv, there's not much to choose from.
[06:37] <superm1> dekarl, ah i just looked over the question.
[06:38] <superm1> either approach would solve it short term, but long term it should hopefully be N/A with web based mythtv-setup
[06:41] <dekarl> superm1: where shall I put this so it doesn't get lost?
[06:41] <superm1> well ideally in the form of a patch that can be merged immediately :)
[06:41] <dekarl> as the web setup with xmltv... is not going to happen RSN
[06:42] <dekarl> uhh, I don't even know how to start mythtv-setup with "mythtv" credentials and still being able to access the screen
[06:42] <superm1> then a bug against the mythtv source package or the mythbuntu project is fine
[06:42] <dekarl> it's just a one line change to the wrapper, but how should that look like?
[06:44] <superm1> oh i forgot there's all that other logic in the line to run it single threaded and in a terminal window
[06:44] <superm1> it might just be a matter of adding $SU_TYPE to the beginning of that xterm launch
[06:45] <dekarl> hmm
[06:47] <dekarl> yes, but it has to be a variant of $SU_TYPE that sus to mythtv, not root and gets the environment setup correctly :(
[06:48] <superm1> so it might be $SU_TYPE su mythtv -c xterm -title ...
[06:50] <dekarl> but $SU_TYPE (cd ~mythtv/.mythtv; ln -s $HOME/.mythtv/*.xmltv .) should work, too (if it wasn't for spaces in the names of the video sources :(
[06:50] <dekarl> does $SU_TYPE su mythtv -c xterm -title ... change $HOME to ~mythtv ?
[06:50] <superm1> well you run into bigger problems if you are symlinking directories around
[06:50] <superm1> what if several users have .xmltv directories already
[06:50] <superm1> or files in there?
[06:51] <superm1> do you keep them, rename them?
[06:51] <superm1> so i think the better way to solve it is mythtv-setup as mythtv user for now
[06:51] <superm1> and yes that should change $HOME to ~mythtv
[06:51] <dekarl> that's good, I agree it's better to change the wrapper to run setup as mythtv
[06:52] <superm1> another way to do it would be to add support to mythtv-setup to drop permissions and change uid/gid and then require it to run as root
[06:52] <superm1> similar to what mythbackend supports now
[06:53] <superm1> kees, any opinions about above what you think would be the best approach?
[06:54] <dekarl> imho dropping permission in backend or setup is an ugly kludge ;)
[06:54] <dekarl> I'm looking at the su variant atm
[06:54] <superm1> well in backend it's the only way to cleanly do it with upstart
[06:54] <dekarl> then upstart has a bug there
[06:54] <superm1> well because using su in an upstart job creates an interactive consolekit session
[06:55] <superm1> so suddenly anything that normally would "log out" of a session sees a "user" logged in
[06:55] <dekarl> I think upstart needs auxillary tools like daemontools have
[06:55] <dekarl> but that's another topic
[06:55] <superm1> i think this cycle it actually gained support for user jobs, i haven't explored that yet
[06:56] <superm1> it might be a possibility to just have a job in ~mythtv that gets spawned by upstart directly as the right user
[07:07] <dekarl> this seems to be ok: $SU_TYPE su mythtv -c xterm -title ...
[07:07] <dekarl> hmm
[07:07] <dekarl> gksu -- sudo -u mythtv -i set | grep HOME
[07:07] <dekarl> notice the "-i" for getting a fresh mythtv login session
[07:08]  * dekarl gotta run
[12:44] <ahhughez> I've been going thru all the ubuntu 11.04 bluetooth guides... what I am doing *should* work. But it's not. I can'f ro the life of me work out why mythbuntu didnt have all the bluetooth packages installed by default. I suspect that ubutnu != mythbuntu but others might be able to help me out with this
[15:14] <kees> superm1: I didn't follow what the original need was. something relating to xmltv, but I think it is lost in my backscroll.
[15:55] <superm1> kees, basically xmltv config needs to be setup for ~mythtv since mythbackend uses it
[15:56] <superm1> but you run mythtv-setup as $USER meaning the xmltv config gets saved in ~$USER
[15:56] <superm1> everything else about running mythtv-setup as $USER is fine I think
[18:21] <kees> ah, well, yeah, I think the stuff you mentioned should be fine (since mythtv-setup is run by root anyway, so switching away to the mythtv user to the piece that needs it is okay afaict)
[18:27] <superm1> ok, i'll double check that thing dekarl posted works and merge that in then