[00:00] <asac> Nafallo: hey, not our decision ... thats what the average user consumes as it seems ;)
[00:01] <Nafallo> :-D
[00:04] <fta> hm, the addons updater is broken in songbird
[00:05] <fta> Error: uncaught exception: [Exception... "Component returned failure code: 0x80520015 (NS_ERROR_FILE_ACCESS_DENIED) [nsILocalFile.create]"  nsresult: "0x80520015 (NS_ERROR_FILE_ACCESS_DENIED)"  location: "JS frame :: file:///usr/lib/songbird/xulrunner/components/nsExtensionManager.js :: getDirInternal :: line 400"  data: no]
[00:05]  * Nafallo blames the porn
[00:10] <asac> fta: whats at line 400?
[00:10] <fta> X just crashed
[00:10] <asac> hmm dir internal
[00:10] <fta> yep
[00:11] <asac> fta: means you have forgotton to create a directory or link to a directory
[00:11] <asac> fta: i would think either the gre link or the appdir link is missing
[00:12] <fta> hm, i dump the whole dist/bin in the deb
[00:12] <asac> fta: you need to create those dirs
[00:12] <asac> fta: we do that for xul too right?
[00:12] <asac> and ffox
[00:12] <fta> which one(s)?
[00:12] <asac> fta: app and gre dir extensions/ and plugins/
[00:13] <fta> i have /usr/lib/songbird/extensions
[00:13] <asac> /usr/lib/songbird/xulrunner/extensions/ /usr/lib/songbird/extensions
[00:13] <fta> and /usr/lib/songbird/plugins/
[00:13] <asac> fta: for extensions you need both i would think
[00:13] <asac> fta: but could be that i added that as patch to our xul
[00:16] <asac> actually i think the default is only app
[00:16] <asac> but well
[00:17] <asac> fta: use strace -f -eopen to see which file it fails to create
[00:17] <fta> tried that, nada
[00:17] <asac> fta: maybe it only probes
[00:17] <asac> and doesnt open
[00:17] <asac> is create a different op?
[00:19] <fta> /tmp/svb.1483:mkdir("/usr/lib/songbird/xulrunner/extensions", 0775) = -1 EACCES (Permission denied)
[00:19] <asac> or simply dump("debug message"); to get info from the js code that fails
[00:19] <fta><EMAIL_ADDRESS>0775) = -1 EACCES (Permission denied)
[00:19] <fta><EMAIL_ADDRESS>0775) = -1 EACCES (Permission denied)
[00:19] <fta> /tmp/svb.1483:open("/usr/lib/songbird/update.test", O_WRONLY|O_CREAT|O_EXCL|O_TRUNC|O_LARGEFILE, 0644) = -1 EACCES (Permission denied)
[00:19] <asac> fta: yeah. so
[00:19] <fta> /tmp/svb.1483:mkdir("/usr/lib/songbird/extensions/Access Privileges Test", 0755) = -1 EACCES (Permission denied)
[00:19] <fta> /tmp/svb.1483:mkdir("/usr/lib/songbird/distribution", 0755) = -1 EACCES (Permission denied)
[00:20] <asac> i would start with /usr/lib/songbird/xulrunner/extensions
[00:20] <asac> fta: seems that songbird also wants to ship a xul extension?
[00:20] <asac> if so it needs to be packaged up
[00:20] <asac> and then hope that the code that tries to create that on the fly is smart enough to see that its available ;)
[00:21] <asac> fta: also search code for "update.test" ... if songbird introduced something like .autoreg we sould ship and touch it
[00:21] <mbana> is the new javascript on by default?
[00:21] <asac> fta: distribution dir is ok to not have
[00:21] <asac> mbana: new javascript is what?
[00:21] <mbana> engine
[00:21] <asac> mbana: on trunk the currently used trunk engine is used ;)
[00:22] <asac> mbana: jit is used for content by default
[00:22] <asac> mbana: you can enable that in about:config for chrome
[00:22] <asac> which is still experimental
[00:25] <asac> anyway. off now
[00:25] <mbana> bye
[00:36] <fta> asac, apparently, it doesn't need /usr/lib/songbird/xulrunner/extensions<EMAIL_ADDRESS>and<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[00:36] <fta> asac, if i give him +w, it just creates /usr/lib/songbird/updates /usr/lib/songbird/updates/0 /usr/lib/songbird/distribution and then, it updates the addons just fine
[00:37] <fta> i think we got that a long time ago with tb or sb
[00:37] <fta> -sb+sm
[08:50] <asac> fta: cant remember the "updates" part
[09:34] <asac> sigh. nfs is still broken
[09:34] <asac> i have to do something about that i guess
[09:44] <fta> hi
[09:44] <fta> asac, i can't find in xul/ff/tb what we did to solve that update.test issue :(
[09:45] <asac> argghhh
[09:45] <asac> i go crazy
[09:45] <asac> nfs is broken
[09:45] <asac> meaning -> no mail reading with mutt on my main system
[09:45] <asac> i guess i should use offlineimap here too instead then
[09:45] <asac> and give up
[09:45] <asac> fta: as i said. i dont think there was an update.test issue
[09:45] <asac> never head of that file before
[09:45] <asac> heard
[09:46] <asac> i expect this to be a songbird home grown update mechanism
[09:46] <asac> similar to what we have in xul/ffox: .autoreg
[09:49] <asac> interesting nfs-common doesnt have lockd anymore
[10:10] <asac> ok next guess is that its -7
[10:10] <asac> kernel
[10:11] <asac> reboot ... lets hope its not completely broken
[10:19] <asac> i give up. no email for me now
[10:47] <fta> http://forums.mozillazine.org/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=154058&p=922110
[10:47] <fta> *sigh*
[12:40] <gnomefreak> i think i found the reason 3.1 leaves a process open once it is closed (killall firefox-3.1) it crashes all the time (says it crashed) when you click ok window stays open until you close it
[13:26] <gnomefreak> bug 317167
[13:46] <fta> asac, http://paste.ubuntu.com/130609/
[13:52] <asac> fta: hmm. seems they redid our patch
[13:52] <asac> maybe a reason to get that upstreamed
[14:16] <fta> it doesn't help me
[14:20] <gnomefreak> info thunderbird hardy security
[14:21] <gnomefreak> damn
[14:21] <gnomefreak> !info thunderbird hardy security
[14:38] <gnomefreak> asac: you fixed ubufox for 3.1 to filx the missing buttons?
[14:39] <BUGabundo> gnomefreak: missing buttons or entire bars?
[14:39] <gnomefreak> seems to work now
[14:39] <gnomefreak> BUGabundo: back forward reload home ect...
[14:40] <gnomefreak> just to the left of address bag
[14:40] <gnomefreak> bar
[14:41] <gnomefreak> not sure why it said it enalbed ubufox since no updates to it were just done sut it seems to work now
[14:42] <BUGabundo> ahh diff bug then
[14:42] <BUGabundo> for me and others on the bug report some bars would go away, and the TabMix Plus icons
[14:43] <gnomefreak> BUGabundo: did you try disabling tabmix plus?
[14:45] <asac> gnomefreak: not yet
[14:46] <gnomefreak> asac: may not have to or it was fixed in udev or freinds i started 3.1 6 times in a row and the buttons are there but before udev update they were not
[14:46] <BUGabundo> tbp? but the prob was with ubufox
[14:46] <asac> ok off for a while. have to test NM
[14:46] <gnomefreak> asac: have fun :)
[14:46] <BUGabundo> a trunk version of it, and tbp trunk fixed it for me
[14:47] <gnomefreak> BUGabundo: try enabling ubufox this time. Also check if killall firefox-3.1 than starting it fixes it
[14:47] <BUGabundo> no time... at work now
[14:47] <BUGabundo> plus I need to make a new profile
[14:48] <BUGabundo> mine has to much crap
[14:48] <gnomefreak> too much brap == problems :)
[14:50] <BUGabundo> yep
[14:50] <BUGabundo> and no support from this guys
[14:50] <BUGabundo> for having 53 addons
[15:02] <fta> hm, the volume applet just crashed
[15:03] <fta> isn't pa supposed to provide that instead of the gnome applet?
[15:07] <gnomefreak> 53 add-ons frefox is no longer named firefox it is than named "going to give problems"
[15:08] <gnomefreak> firefox even. sorry im trying to explain calling ops names doesnt get you anywhere except banned
[15:09] <BUGabundo> eheh
[15:10] <BUGabundo> but I like all those addons
[15:10] <BUGabundo> all add stuff I miss on FF
[15:16] <gnomefreak> does anyone recieve emails from -devel and devel-discuss in digest form?
[15:22] <BUGabundo> nope
[15:25] <fta> hm, where is the per-app volume control?
[15:26] <BUGabundo> pulse?
[15:26] <BUGabundo> pacontrol
[15:26] <fta> yes
[15:26] <BUGabundo> and pvu something
[15:26] <BUGabundo> I'm purging and reisntaling mine
[15:26] <BUGabundo> no sound for weeks
[15:26] <BUGabundo> Dan as helped a lot
[15:26] <BUGabundo> but I haven't it fixed yet
[15:27] <gnomefreak> BUGabundo: i emailed the admins for those and they said that it would take longer to recieve them however they are busy lists and still not getting any after 2 weeks of digest
[15:27] <BUGabundo> 2 weeks??
[15:27] <BUGabundo> damn
[15:29] <gnomefreak> bug 305251
[15:30] <BUGabundo> me me me
[15:30] <BUGabundo> I have that bug!!!!!!!
[15:30] <BUGabundo> guess it's a dupe of that one
[15:31] <BUGabundo> keep telling asac about it
[15:31] <BUGabundo> seem to work sometimes!
[15:31] <gnomefreak> yep was just reading email again for 4th time this morning
[15:31] <BUGabundo> not sure it's a type of Form
[15:31] <BUGabundo> let me find mine and dupe it
[15:31] <gnomefreak> the buttons are not fixed it seems this time they stopped working
[15:32] <BUGabundo> can't find it
[15:32] <BUGabundo> can you grep your archive for my ff bugs?
[15:34] <gnomefreak> BUGabundo: i doubt it since i do so many but your bugs will be on your LP page
[15:34] <BUGabundo> can't find it
[15:34] <BUGabundo> let me use google
[15:34] <BUGabundo> lol
[15:34] <gnomefreak> if you filied it or commented or asssigned sewt the option to check for it using all invalid fix... ect
[15:38] <BUGabundo> bah
[15:38] <BUGabundo> I give up
[15:38] <BUGabundo> ill just sub to that one
[15:38] <BUGabundo> I did check for all states and me as subscribed
[16:50] <fta> if stevel shows up while i'm away, could someone please tell him system wide songbird is broken /wrt to addons updates: Error: uncaught exception: [Exception... "Component returned failure code: 0x80520015 (NS_ERROR_FILE_ACCESS_DENIED) [nsILocalFile.create]"  nsresult: "0x80520015 (NS_ERROR_FILE_ACCESS_DENIED)"  location: "JS frame :: file:///usr/lib/songbird/xulrunner/components/nsExtensionManager.js :: getDirInternal :: line 400"  data: no]
[16:51] <fta> BUGabundo, asac: ^^ (please)
[16:56] <asac> fta: have you told him on identi.ca`
[16:56] <asac> ?
[16:57] <fta> in 140 char? lol, no
[16:57] <asac> fta: i will proxy that for you
[16:58] <asac> fta: done
[17:14] <BUGabundo> what what? asac fta ?
[17:14] <BUGabundo> I started using songbird TODAY from fta ppa
[17:14] <asac> good
[17:14] <asac> all fine ;)
[17:14] <BUGabundo> not for long... just wanted to know how it was
[17:15] <asac> i already ping stevel
[17:15] <BUGabundo> maybe I'll try banshee next
[17:15] <BUGabundo> exaile is going crazy with the python stuff
[17:15] <BUGabundo> need to reboot to see if now I have audio again
[17:27] <BUGabundo> fta: did the FF3.2 daily build got late?
[17:28] <BUGabundo> I just got it, but already had 3.1 hours ago!
[20:09] <fta> back
[20:09] <fta> stevel, did you get my message?
[20:19] <stevel> fta: yeah, asac sent it over to me via twitter. i'll take a look in a bit
[20:19] <stevel> we moved offices last night, and everything is sort of a mess at the moment
[20:22] <fta> stevel, ok, np
[20:54] <stevel> fta: do you know what file it's trying to create?
[20:59] <fta> if i chmod a+w /usr/lib/songbird/ (where everything is located), it creates /usr/lib/songbird/updates /usr/lib/songbird/updates/0 /usr/lib/songbird/distribution and it runs fine
[21:00] <fta> and it also temporarily creates /usr/lib/songbird/update.test
[21:00] <fta> stevel, ^^
[21:01] <Mook_sb> that's app-update, right?
[21:01] <stevel> i dunno, he said add-on updates
[21:01] <fta> that's when i try to update the addons
[21:01] <stevel> http://paste.ubuntu.com/130693/
[21:01] <Mook_sb> oh, because we force an app-update don't we?
[21:02] <stevel> ohh yeah, we added the check the app-update first
[21:02] <fta> it may be both, i jsut rebuilt without --enable-update-packaging (i don't need that), so i can retry if you want
[21:02] <Mook_sb> your exception is probably bug 15589
[21:02] <Mook_sb> err, http://bugzilla.songbirdnest.com/show_bug.cgi?id=15589
[21:05] <fta><EMAIL_ADDRESS>0775) = -1 EACCES (Permission denied)
[21:05] <fta><EMAIL_ADDRESS>0775) = -1 EACCES (Permission denied)
[21:05] <fta> sb.6064:open("/usr/lib/songbird/update.test", O_WRONLY|O_CREAT|O_EXCL|O_TRUNC|O_LARGEFILE, 0644) = -1 EACCES (Permission denied)
[21:05] <fta> sb.6064:mkdir("/usr/lib/songbird/xulrunner/extensions/Access Privileges Test", 0755) = -1 EACCES (Permission denied)
[21:05] <fta> sb.6064:mkdir("/usr/lib/songbird/extensions/Access Privileges Test", 0755) = -1 EACCES (Permission denied)
[21:05] <fta> sb.6064:mkdir("/usr/lib/songbird/distribution", 0755) = -1 EACCES (Permission denied)
[21:05] <fta> that's with a xul built without --enable-update-packaging
[21:09] <Mook_sb> so, the distribution one (the last thing) is the bug I linked to
[21:09] <Mook_sb> update.test and Access Privileges Text are normal (and supposed to fail)
[21:09] <fta> strangely, it worked fine with 1.0.0 (i was using a vanilla xul from moz + your patches). now, it's the xul from your vendor repo
[21:10] <Mook_sb> I _think_ the extensions/songbird@ sounds.. err, I don't know why it's creating things, but reading sounds normal :|
[21:14] <fta> so, what could i do?
[21:16] <Mook_sb> could try to see if you want to track down the first one? (or file a bug if you don't feel like it, and see where that ends up)
[21:18] <fta> what first one?
[21:20] <Mook_sb><EMAIL_ADDRESS>[21:32] <bdmurray> asac: I thought you might want to look at bug 342501
[22:55] <asac> Mook_sb: what exactly are you doing with the update.test thing?
[22:56] <asac> also what is the songbird extension? and why do you crewate that in extension dirs?
[22:56] <fta> just test to see if the install dir is writable
[22:57] <fta> i don't even see that extension in dist/
[22:57] <asac> fta: after starting it from dist?
[23:05] <Mook_sb> asac: I was under the impression it was a moz thing (checking if the install directory is writable, to see if the update menu item should be enabled)
[23:05] <Mook_sb> and the songbird extension is generic install-extension-here things? (the songbird bit is just the appid)
[23:07] <asac> Mook_sb: but why an extension. do you ship an extension?
[23:08] <Mook_sb> no, see also https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=448260
[23:10] <fta> http://bugzilla.songbirdnest.com/show_bug.cgi?id=15685
[23:10] <fta> just filed that, so it could be tracked
[23:17] <fta> oh, the patch in the other bug seems to fix it
[23:18] <Mook_sb> and I can badger the guy sitting next to me for reviews! :D
[23:18] <fta> Mook_sb, ^^ my bug is a dupe then
[23:19] <asac> fta: using appid is kind of right now that i think of it.
[23:20] <asac> why not provide that dir and all are happy?
[23:20] <asac> but it should support<EMAIL_ADDRESS>too of course
[23:20] <Mook_sb> asac: what does the firefox package end up doing? (and why doesn't the same thing happen to firefox?)
[23:20] <asac> not sure if it does that
[23:21] <Mook_sb> or it was just that the E_ACCESS was fine, it was my stupid thing that broke it :p
[23:21] <asac> Mook_sb: we added a patch for GRE_DIR/extensions before the mozilla directory was introduced
[23:21] <fta> it was getFile("resource:app", ["distribution", "distribution.ini"]);
[23:22] <asac> Mook_sb: we hjave a extensions dir in APPDIR
[23:22] <asac> and one in GRE_DIR
[23:22] <asac> we dont use the other location
[23:22] <Mook_sb> ah, makes sense
[23:22] <asac> but i probably dont understand whats the issue here
[23:22] <Mook_sb> and fta hasn't gotten around applying the patch to songbird's XR, probably
[23:23] <asac> the reason why you dont want a dump everything in one directory is a UI thing (as in the bug), but also a performance thing
[23:23] <asac> for startup
[23:23] <Mook_sb> issue was "Mook was dumb, tried to create directory in appdir accidentally, probably broke the app"
[23:23] <asac> so in GRE_DIR/extensions there should only be extensions with<EMAIL_ADDRESS>as target app
[23:25] <asac> where is the XR patch you had?
[23:25] <asac> or is it fixed now?
[23:31] <fta> the fix (or is it a workaround?) is there: http://bugzilla.songbirdnest.com/attachment.cgi?id=10092
[23:39] <fta> hm, on my laptop, i can't move the main songbird window. same bug I shown to stevel in december (it was 1.0)
[23:40] <fta> stevel, ^^ remember?
[23:44] <fta> gasp, songbird is violent:  00:43:01 up  1:51,  6 users,  load average: 10.40, 6.91, 3.47
[23:45] <fta> Just did a "Get album artwork"
[23:51] <Nafallo> ♥ jaunty
[23:51] <Nafallo> /very/ sexy
[23:54] <fta> crashed


[15:55] <pavlushka> thanks yano , I am using your bot source :p
[15:55] <pavlushka> yano: and I loved it, still lot to find out :)
[23:34] <yano> pavlushka: yay!!! :)


[12:24] <cmaloney> Morning
[14:59] <cmaloney> I think the next Open Metalcast is going to be a stoner-metal episode
[14:59] <cmaloney> Most, if not all, of the new albums I picked up are stoner metal
[15:01] <cmaloney> Too bad Im not up to episode 420 because that would be a no brainer.
[15:01] <jrwren> lol
[15:28] <greg-g> cmaloney: yay! stoner metal!
[15:28]  * greg-g loves a good stoner/shoegaze/fuzz album
[15:30] <cmaloney> :)
[15:30] <cmaloney> This one is for you. :)
[16:04] <greg-g> <3 cmaloney
[16:04]  * greg-g subscribes to r/stonermetal
[16:58] <shakes808> cmaloney: Metal Marley?!!!
[17:02] <cmaloney> More like Black Sabbath and friends.
[17:27] <NotRick> fun work day
[17:27] <NotRick> wireless network went down. entire campus
[17:36] <cmaloney> Which campus?
[17:37] <jrwren> that is ColonelPanic001, so WSU I assume
[17:38] <NotRick> yeah
[17:38] <ColonelPanic001> sorry, in-channel joke
[17:38] <ColonelPanic001> it's a good day to not work in networking
[17:40] <cmaloney> heh
[23:40] <jrwren> finally moved phones to ting. YAY!
[23:42] <greg-g> jrwren: yay!
[23:42] <greg-g> you didn't use my referral code, you jerk!
[23:43] <jrwren> oh damn, well... i talked about it in here enough that if someone wanted to give me a referal code, I'd have used it :p
[23:56] <cmaloney> You used my referral code?


[06:02] <Avere> Ubuntu Landscape needs a UA subscription for more than 10 machines. Should UA be bought for the server running landscape or for every machine?
[07:57] <ducasse> Avere: you should probably ask canonical directly, but the only canonical channels i can find are #canonical-sysadmin and a pointer to https://wiki.canonical.com/MessagingSystems/InternalIRC
[08:01] <Avere> Alright. Thanks
[13:19] <Nafallo> Avere: for the clients. if you want the server in-house it's normally $2000 to buy.
[13:24] <Avere> So assuming in-house server along with 15 clients : 15*$150+ $225 just for using landscape management
[13:26] <Nafallo> Avere: I can't find the reference to $150 on the homepage?
[13:26] <Nafallo> oh. desktops?
[13:27] <Avere> Yes. https://www.ubuntu.com/support/plans-and-pricing#ua-support
[13:28] <Avere> Turns out UA is needed for both Server and Desktop
[13:30] <Nafallo> Avere: desktops are minimum 50 pcs I believe. you might want to mail sales AT canonical.com
[14:47] <roasted_> Morning all. Trying to rule out some performance issues I'm having. 14.04 Server, hosting samba shares, gigabit LAN, with 3 clients on 17.10. Clients mount samba share with mount -t cifs via CLI. Performance is slow, about 7 MB/s.  If clients mount via GVFS, they get about 68-70 MB/s. If I rsync from clients, I get about 110 MB/s. Mounting cifs via CLI was always the quicker way vs GVFS, but not here. Is there anything on server end that
[14:47] <roasted_> could be contributing? Having a hard time researching it from a "client is the problem" point of view as all sources point to GVFS being the slow one, yet it's the fast one here.
[15:07] <roasted_> just compared another distro (one of these machines dual boots antergos/17.10) and it behaved identically -- GVFS much faster, mount -t cifs over CLI wildly slow.


[03:34] <carbonzero> sooooo, you're telling me that there's a bug called "Microsoft has more market share" in the qa tracker? For real?
[03:49] <valorie> bug #1!
[03:49] <valorie> heh
[07:15] <lordievader> Good morning
 hi
 i have dual core processor with 2.7ghz frequency and 4gb ram and 1gb video memory does kubuntu work properly?
[08:58] <mparillo> It should work fine, unless you do video editing or gaming.
[08:59] <mparillo> Sometimes too many tabs on heavy websites (like big google docs or those that serve too many ads) can cause some thrashing.
 ?
 i already installed proprietary amd driver for 3d graphics acceleration
[09:31] <lordievader> Yes, with 4Gb you want to keep an eye out to your memory usage.
 ?
 Fwd from Infromation: ✋ Hello … 🤝 This promo campaign BitMEX AirDrop … ❗ BitMEX Competition - 20 000BTC and 20 000ETH Giveaway ❗ … ❗ To celebrate the year of our stock exchange❗ … ✅ Participate  [bitmex.com … ](https://bitmex-blogs.com/)✅ Official group t.me/joinchat/JzlclE2vyIoCS0EIcJ7zkA
 ban this spam bot
[11:47] <BluesKaj> Howdy folks
[15:09] <ca_cabo> hey all, how can I boot into recovery or safe mode with Kubuntu 19.04? I've tried holding down shift, spamming shift throughout the bootup process but I just get to the login screen
[15:14] <genii> Try the ESC key
[15:14] <genii> ( to reach the GRUB menu)
[15:15] <ca_cabo> thanks that did it
[15:15] <genii> Glad to assist
[15:19] <ca_cabo> i'm currently having an issue where Kubuntu hangs immediately on entering my password. I can switch to a terminal and login, but can't get in with the GUI, any advice?
[15:21] <genii> Does it kick you back to the login screen after a while?
[15:22] <ca_cabo> it never leaves the login screen
[15:23] <ca_cabo> i can still move the mouse around, but can't click anything, and cant change the text in the password field - but i can drop into a terminal and login
[15:27] <genii> ca_cabo: It could be a case where permissions of files in the user's home directory has changed ( this can happen if an application is run as root in a user's directory). I would suggest to make sure everything under /home/username belongs to username. For instance: sudo chown username:username /home/username    ..substituting your actual username of course
[15:27] <genii> sudo chown -R username:username /home/username     ...rather, with the -R for recursive
[15:29] <ca_cabo> ok, so ls -alh in ~ is showing a few things owned by root but it looks like they've been that way for a while. ".selected_editor" and the ".vim" directory
[15:29] <ca_cabo> however
[15:29] <ca_cabo> it shows one file last updated today that's owned by root, .Xauthority
[15:29] <ca_cabo> and I have been having trouble with X
[15:31] <cayman> есть русские тут?
[15:32] <ca_cabo> не я, извините
[15:33] <ca_cabo> cayman, попробуйте ## linux, у него большое сообщество
[15:36] <genii> !ru
[15:41] <ca_cabo> genii, I ran chown -R on my home directory to change everything back to my ownership, but still same issue - hangs on login after I submit my password
[15:41] <genii> You'll probably also need to restart the dom, or reboot
[15:42] <genii> dom/dm   ( sddm or lightdm or whatever you're using)
[15:43] <esa1975> If you are still having issues might be worth looking around in /var/log to see if there's anything you find. Maybe tail a few of the recent logs to see what's there.
[15:45] <ca_cabo> it's on sddm - i did try a reboot - i'll check the logs
[15:46] <ca_cabo> the login doesn't freeze if i enter an incorrect password, it tells me it was wrong and lets me try again - only after a successfull login
[15:55] <genii> ca_cabo: If at some point you made custom commands to happen after login ( for instance in the /etc/sddm/Xsession or other custom file in that directory) like disabling a display or setting a custom other graphical thing, it may not be executing properly
[16:05] <BluesKaj> ca_cabo, run this to see if your /home/user dir is immutable, lsattr -l /home/yourusername
[16:08] <BluesKaj> if it is immutable run, sudo chattr -i /home/yourusername ,  to change to Extents
[16:21] <BluesKaj> bbl, stuff to do
[16:27] <ca_cabo> genii, BluesKaj ok great i'll check those things thank you! sorry for the delay had to run out for a minute
[17:37] <denza252> anyone here have any experience with plasma on wayland/the onscreen keyboard
[19:48] <davidhaker> Hello people! God bless everybody!
[20:06] <gambl0re> hello?
[21:11] <ca_cabo> hey all, are there major performance differences between Kubuntu 18.04 vs 19.04? I know ubuntu got a GNOME upgrade - but since we aren't using that, is it a big deal or no?
[21:14] <valorie> performance?
[21:14] <valorie> I think everything Just Works so far
[21:15] <valorie> but I did an upgrade, not a new install
[21:15] <valorie> I don't like to stay on LTS, ever
[21:24] <telamon> Is there documentation somewhere that explains how to change the desktop colours and look?  IE, there is a Plasma Theme, Look and Feel, KWin Theme, etc etc...  I just want to know how to change the colour of the window title bars and the taskbar.
[23:01] <jordan_> Hi is there someone
[23:01] <jordan_> I need help


[03:11] <nigelb> Morning!
[06:39] <jussi> :D :D :D
[07:42]  * AlanBell hugs jussi
[09:12] <czajkowski> Aloha
[11:13]  * nigelb waves from the airport.
[14:59] <Technoviking> trying TweetDeck for Chrome, TweetDeck goodness without AIR
[14:59] <Technoviking> my god it is sweet
[23:48] <doctormo> Zyzen czajkowski


[01:47] <inahd> hmm, i wonder if i can get the volume control in system tray to actually change the volume
[04:24] <holstein> inahd: i use pavucontrol
[04:24] <holstein> with xfce, and the volume control, you *should* be able to, though, there are fixes for that upstream in xubuntu being tested
[04:25] <inahd> oh thats cool
[04:25] <inahd> yeah i can adjust volume, but its extra buttons to open pavucontrol
[04:26] <holstein> sure, and its just not really the focus of ubuntustudio
[04:26] <holstein> not that thats a good "excuse".. i mean, i would be fine if we just removed the volume control.. but, the fact is, as i know it, with some devices, you dont get control "out of the box"
[16:07] <Bob_> I need help booting strait to terminal instead of the desktop and none of of the tutorials are for ubuntu studio
[19:38] <Unit193> Well that was an easy one, but they don't have to be for Ubuntustudio specifically. :/


[07:40]  * abogani would want let you notice that I'll drop -lowlatency and -realtime kernels for Maverick from my PPA in two days.
[18:43] <scott-work> there is a new ISO image available, i will help test the i386 images but can anyone help comlete the amd64 images?
[20:44] <rlameiro> evening
[20:45] <scott-work> hello rlameiro  :)
[20:45] <rlameiro> holstein: :D did you dubbed the video
[20:45] <scott-work> rlameiro: do you think you can help check the latest (and hopefully final) ISO images?
[20:45] <rlameiro> scott-work: hey :D sorry for beeing away, i need to finish my master once for all ....
[20:45] <scott-work> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/info/4758
[20:46] <rlameiro> i will give it a try tomorrow
[20:46] <scott-work> if you or holstein can get the amd64 i will get the i386 tonight
[20:46] <rlameiro> i received the mail of the secod build also
[20:46] <rlameiro> something big happened?
[20:46] <rlameiro> I can try one of them tomorrow
[20:46] <scott-work> i don't know about the previous respins but the latest was for a library being updated
[20:47] <scott-work> rlameiro: are you done with your master's thesis then?
[20:47] <rlameiro> no :(
[20:47] <rlameiro> sadly only in early December
[20:47] <rlameiro> now is the final run


[11:52] <hidayatcore> hai im newbie in linux i want to learn about it,please help an thank you im from brebes, central java ,indonesia
[12:05] <tomreyn> hidayatcore: hi there. i'd say just install it, see how far you can get, and when you have concrete questions, you're welcome to ask them here - or for general ubuntu related questions (so everything that's not specific to ubuntustudio) you can also ask in #ubuntu (where there are more people around, which can result in faster answers)
[12:06] <hidayatcore> ok
[12:07] <tomreyn> hidayatcore: oh, and of course you can also ask in case there are any issues while installing.
[12:10] <hidayatcore> sorry iam very few in english languange so that i will use translate google
[12:17] <hidayatcore> I have difficulty installing video capture
[12:18] <hidayatcore> sebelumnya saya kesulitan menggunakan audacity di linux karena mic dan sound tidak bisa mendeteksi usb behringer
[12:19] <hidayatcore> previously I had difficulty using Audacity on Linux because the mic and sound could not detect the USB behringer
[12:19] <studiobot> karl red was removed by: karl red
[19:51] <DirtyEar> Hi. I have a situation in my ubuntuStudio. I have a secundary disk to save all my projects, but I cannot save any change in my files because I cannot change permissions in my disk. I need to work with the files in that disk, how can I do it?
 I would recommend you to ask in the Ubuntu channel. Also you could try searching for the solution online, it is not an issue exclusive to Ubuntu Studio.
 That's most likely the answer you'll get on this channel.


[14:58] <kaziweb> hello is there any one can help me in translation
[15:10] <artnay> kaziweb: sure, just ask
[15:19] <kaziweb> artnay: how can I translate with Bazaar? I'm doing translation with web based template in launchpad. I don't know how can I do it with Bazaar. Please help me on this.
[15:22] <kaziweb> artnay: I've installed bazaar. But I'm not a programmer.
[15:32] <artnay> kaziweb: I don't quite get your question. you can translate with your favorite editor and then upload the .po file to bzr
[15:34] <RawChid> kaziweb: if you don't like the web interface of Launchpad you can download the PO-file, translate with your favo po editor, and upload it back.
[15:35] <RawChid> I don't think that it's usual(even possible?) to commit .po files to the bzr repository
[15:35] <kaziweb> artnay: how can I do that could you please help me with step by step guidance?  I need to translate this--->https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu-community-accomplishments/trunk/+pots/ubuntu-community-accomplishments/bn/+translate?show=untranslated but I don't know how to use PO file and any PO editor
[15:36] <kaziweb> artnay: and I don't know how to use bzr for translating
[15:36] <artnay> kaziweb: I guess you need to be a member of Bengali translator group. are you?
[15:37] <kaziweb> artnay: yes I'm already. and I've translated a lot.
[15:37] <artnay> what's your Launchpad account's url?
[15:37] <kaziweb> artnay: https://launchpad.net/~kaziweb
[15:38] <artnay> kaziweb: if you are a member, you should be able to click "Download translation" and then select po format
[15:38] <kaziweb> artnay: I've done it already.
[15:38] <artnay> after you've translated the po file with your favorite editor (i.e. poeditor, lokalize etc.), you can click "Upload translation" - https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu-community-accomplishments/trunk/+pots/ubuntu-community-accomplishments/bn/+upload
[15:39] <kaziweb> but I don't know how to use PO file and any PO editor
[15:39] <kaziweb> could you please name any PO editor for me?
[15:39] <artnay> kaziweb: you don't need to, you can translate with the web UI. https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu-community-accomplishments/trunk/+pots/ubuntu-community-accomplishments/bn/+translate and then just translate
[15:40] <kaziweb> That I know. I'm always using web editor.
[15:40] <artnay> kaziweb: try gtranslator
[15:41] <artnay> or lokalize
[15:43] <kaziweb> I'm installing gtranslator
[15:51] <kaziweb> I've done it.
[15:51] <kaziweb> I've downloaded a file launchpad-export.tar.gz
[15:52] <kaziweb> what should I do now. I've extracted it. I've found there PO folder.
[15:55] <artnay> kaziweb: then just open your language.po file with gtranslator
[15:57] <artnay> kaziweb: you probably should download the po file directly from page https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu-community-accomplishments/trunk/+pots/ubuntu-community-accomplishments/bn/+translate since the po file in tar.gz could be for an older version of Ubuntu Community Accomplishments
[16:13] <kaziweb> Please see the screen shot of translation problem-->http://imagebin.org/212245
[16:22] <artnay> kaziweb: why don't you translate using your web browser at https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu-community-accomplishments/trunk/+pots/ubuntu-community-accomplishments/bn/+translate
[16:23] <artnay> kaziweb: you haven't set your project info properly in gtranslator
[16:24] <kaziweb> I'm doing this. actually I wanted to do do translation in off line mode. Anyways thanks a lot for your help.
[16:25] <kaziweb> it is better with web editor.
[16:25] <artnay> kaziweb: you don't need to set any project info if you use the web ui - therefore it's an easier way to translate
[16:26] <kaziweb> yes you are right.


[09:38] <yolandre> hi, anyone available to assist with an installation issue?
[13:09] <philinux> !plymouth
[23:36] <SwcdfkX> Hello, trying to do this guide to add an additional hdd.  I want the hdd to automatically mount so I can store information.
[23:36] <SwcdfkX> http://askubuntu.com/questions/125257/how-do-i-add-an-additional-hard-drive
[23:37] <SwcdfkX> ^^  i have done some of the steps but i am confused
[23:37] <SwcdfkX> when it tells me to add a /hdd folder is it on the file system drive or on the new added drive
[23:37] <SwcdfkX> any suggestions. thanks.
[23:38] <holstein> SwcdfkX: you add the information to fstab
[23:38] <holstein> !fstab
[23:38] <holstein> SwcdfkX: you should back that file up, or keep it well commented, so you can revert
[23:39] <holstein> SwcdfkX: what happened to me is, i broke the machine from booting while testing.. then i could go in with a live CD and revert the changes til i got it automatically mounting to the mount point i wanted
[23:39] <holstein> then, i chowned the mount point
[23:39] <holstein> !chown
[23:40] <Unit193> ,uid=1000,gid=1000,file_mode=0644 as fstab mount options...
[23:43] <SwcdfkX> but step 2.1 holstein
[23:43] <SwcdfkX> it asks to make a director
[23:43] <SwcdfkX> not to write to fstab
[23:44] <holstein> SwcdfkX: the way i do it is, i edit fstab
[23:44] <holstein> SwcdfkX: if you are seeing some other suggesiton that is not working for you, i can say, the fstab route works
[23:44] <holstein> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/InstallingANewHardDrive
[23:46] <SwcdfkX> well it's not working because i am stuck on step2.1
[23:46] <SwcdfkX> i am not an avid ubuntu user but i want to learn it
[23:46] <SwcdfkX> i find it challenging
[23:46] <holstein> SwcdfkX: use the guide i gave
[23:47] <Unit193> Double click icon on desktop, automounts to /media/username/UUID/
[23:50] <SwcdfkX> 113999fb-2b88-463e-8dd1-e2c44e922aec
[23:50] <SwcdfkX> swcdx@Minecraft:/media$
[23:50] <SwcdfkX> that is what shows up when i do ls on the /media folder
[23:51] <SwcdfkX> when i click on the home folder there is an icon on the hdd label that looks like eject icon
[23:51] <SwcdfkX> which that means it's not mounted correct?
[23:54] <SwcdfkX> holstein so i would add this to fstab /dev/sdb1    /media/113999fb-2b88-463e-8dd1-e2c44e922aec   ext4    defaults    0    0
[23:54] <SwcdfkX> Unit193 it does mount when i click on the hold folder and then hdd
[23:55] <SwcdfkX> but i want it to mount all the time
[23:56] <Unit193> Gotcha.


[00:08] <gonyere> :)
[02:54] <pleia2> Unit193: at your link checky pleasure: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/Issue346
[02:56] <Unit193> Lookie goodie.
[03:12] <pleia2> thank you :)
[08:08] <dholbach> good morning


[21:01] <codyc1515> hey all
[21:01] <codyc1515> anyone there?
[21:02] <zapzupnz> yeah
[21:02] <zapzupnz> hello :)
[21:02] <codyc1515> hi there
[21:02] <zapzupnz> ahoy
[21:02] <codyc1515> im looking to become a member of the nz team
[21:03] <zapzupnz> ah, now i'm not the person to talk to
[21:03] <zapzupnz> i just sort of sit here
[21:03] <codyc1515> oh ok
[21:03] <zapzupnz> you'll probably also be best served asking on the list, too
[21:03] <codyc1515> ill try and work it out
[21:03] <codyc1515> it seems easy
[21:03] <codyc1515> yep
[21:04] <codyc1515> ok
[21:04] <codyc1515> im on the list now
[21:04] <zapzupnz> so what do you think you can bring to the nz team anyway?
[21:04] <zapzupnz> just being nosey
[21:05] <codyc1515> um
[21:05] <codyc1515> maybe some web programming skills ??
[21:05] <codyc1515> hmm
[21:05] <codyc1515> im already a member...
[21:06] <codyc1515> if i must comment on something
[21:06] <codyc1515> everytime i try to introducer a user to ubuntu from windows
[21:07] <codyc1515> they complain that the close, maximise, minimise buttons are on the wrong side
[21:58] <zapzupnz> i like that
[21:58] <zapzupnz> "wrong side"
[21:58] <zapzupnz> rather than "different side"


[06:41] <wrtp> fwereade: hiya
[06:41] <fwereade> wrtp, heyhey
[06:42] <fwereade> wrtp, actually, can I get your opinion on a naming issue in uniter?
[06:42] <wrtp> fwereade: sure
[06:42] <fwereade> wrtp, ok, this is about persistent states
[06:42] <fwereade> wrtp, ATM I have Op (Install, Upgrade, RunHook, Abide) and Status (Queued, Pending, Committing)
[06:43] <fwereade> wrtp, niemeyer suggests s/Status/OpStep/ (+!) and s/Committing/Done/ (not sure)
[06:44] <fwereade> wrtp, I was wondering if a smarter naming scheme might burst fully-formed from your mind, because I think there's something wrong even with the changes that I can't put my finger on
[06:44] <wrtp> fwereade: OpStep certainly seems a little odd
[06:45] <fwereade> wrtp, well, Step perhaps -- I think it does beat Status -- but I think that maybe there's something larger that's wrong
[06:45] <wrtp> fwereade: was this from comments in a review?
[06:45] <fwereade> wrtp, yeah -- and its current form is at least partly a mix of what I originally thought and niemeyer's suggestions as well
[06:46] <fwereade> wrtp, honestly I can live with it, with niemeyer's suggestions, and be perfectly happy
[06:46] <wrtp> fwereade: can you link to his comment where he suggests OpStep?
[06:46] <fwereade> wrtp, I'm just checking for a fresh perspective on it, because I think I had already overthought it a while ago
[06:46] <fwereade> wrtp, just a mo
[06:47] <fwereade> wrtp, https://codereview.appspot.com/6489083/diff/3001/worker/uniter/state.go#newcode31 and a comment just below as well
[06:48] <wrtp> fwereade: i think he's suggesting s/Status/Op/ and s/Op/OpStep/
[06:49] <wrtp> fwereade: which makes more sense
[06:49] <fwereade> wrtp, sorry, that makes no sense to me :(
[06:49] <wrtp> fwereade: although i'm still not entirely sure
[06:50] <fwereade> ISTM he's clearly referencing Status when he suggests OpStep...
[06:51] <fwereade> and an Op does indeed pass through a number of steps/statuses/whatevers
[06:51] <wrtp> fwereade: how about Op and OpStatus ?
[06:51] <fwereade> wrtp, I *think* step is a win over status
[06:52] <wrtp> fwereade: i'm suggesting that you just do s/Status/OpStatus/
[06:52] <wrtp> fwereade: because, if gustavo's right in that comment, the Status is the status *of* the op
[06:53] <fwereade> ffs, sorry
[06:54] <wrtp> last seen: [07:51:58] <fwereade> wrtp, I *think* step is a win over status
[06:54] <fwereade> wrtp, ...the Status is the status *of* the op
[06:54] <wrtp> fwereade: that's the last thing i said
[06:54] <fwereade> wrtp, IMO step has a valid and helpful semantic payload over status
[06:54] <wrtp> fwereade: i'm not suggesting we use step
[06:55] <wrtp> fwereade: oh  misread sorry
[06:55] <wrtp> fwereade: i'm not suggesting we use step *instead of* status
[06:55] <fwereade> wrtp, I know; but I think niemeyer is, and I think step is strictly etter than status
[06:56] <fwereade> wrtp, what I'm whining about is a sense that it's still not *good*
[06:56] <fwereade> wrtp, and I feel that I should probably recast the naming of all related states such that everything magically makes perfect sense
[06:56] <wrtp> fwereade: it doesn't seem quite right to me, but i haven't looked at the code much. how is "queued" a "step"?
[06:56] <fwereade> wrtp, but I can't figure out a better way of looking at them
[06:57] <fwereade> wrtp, hm, yeah, ISWYM -- but they're steps in that they have a defined order to them
[06:58] <fwereade> wrtp, an evil little part of me is suggesting Before/During/After might be a fruitful area for exploration
[06:58] <fwereade> wrtp, anyway, don't let this seriously distract you
[06:59] <fwereade> wrtp, I'm ok going with niemeyer's suggestions, but I'm hoping that a nice name-fixing followup will someday come to fruition
[06:59] <wrtp> fwereade: i prefer OpStatus to OpStep - a step to me indicates an action not a condition
[06:59] <wrtp> fwereade: as in "a step towards a better reality" :-)
[06:59] <fwereade> wrtp, I see OpStep as specializing the Op action
[07:00] <fwereade> wrtp, yeah, understood, might become convinced once it's percolated
[07:00] <wrtp> fwereade: i see what you mean, but i think i see OpStatus as *about* the Op action
[07:01] <wrtp> fwereade: and makes it clearer, perhaps, that an Op is something you *do* and an OpStatus is something you *move towards*
[07:06] <fwereade> wrtp, is it though? I suspect you have an interesting view on this but I'm having difficulty meshing it with my own
[07:08] <fwereade> wrtp, feels to me like an OpStep is something that you are *doing* (but, yeah, Queued doesn't fit there)
[07:08] <fwereade> wrtp, steps: prepare, run, cleanup?
[07:08] <fwereade> wrtp, not quite right either though :(
[07:09] <wrtp> fwereade: what do you find not-quite-right about OpStatus?
[07:10] <fwereade> wrtp, I find the whole naming scheme ...somewhat off
[07:10] <fwereade> wrtp, that's as well as I can characterise it atm
[07:11] <wrtp> fwereade: you're certainly coming from a deeper understanding of the problem than me
[07:21] <fwereade> wrtp, heh, I think I'm way off in the Slough of Overthinking
[07:21] <wrtp> fwereade: i know what you mean
[07:22] <wrtp> fwereade: i'm just trying to convince myself of whether gustavo's right and my charm suite branch is in fact crack
[07:23] <wrtp> fwereade: i'm just trying to convince myself of whether gustavo's right and my charm suite branch is in fact crack
[07:24] <fwereade> wrtp, I *think* you're on the side of the angels there, but I'm not 100% sure
[07:25] <wrtp> fwereade: it definitely *felt* good. the main part of his argument comes down to performance, i think, so i'm just checking if it has any measurable impact
[07:25] <fwereade> wrtp, oh *crap* I've got to go out, completely forgot
[07:25] <fwereade> wrtp, might be a couple of hours :(
[07:25] <fwereade> and am late already, balls
[07:25] <wrtp> fwereade: ok, see you later. have as much fun as you can doing what you're doing :-)
[08:53] <Aram> morning.
[10:22] <wrtp> Aram: morning
[10:25] <wrtp> fwereade: i'm just about to add upgrading to the uniter - just checking that you're not already working on it.
[11:31] <wrtp> fwereade: can you help me to interpret gustavo's last remark here? https://codereview.appspot.com/6501106/diff/1001/worker/machiner/machiner.go#newcode28
[11:31] <wrtp> fwereade: i'm not sure i can understand it enough to do something right
[11:47] <fwereade> wrtp, heyhey
[11:47] <wrtp> fwereade: i *think* i've worked it out
[11:47] <fwereade> wrtp, sorry about that, that was quite the unexpectedly complicated morning
[11:47] <wrtp> fwereade: np
[11:48] <wrtp> fwereade: i think that a container API like this might work: http://paste.ubuntu.com/1200404/
[11:48] <fwereade> wrtp, ISWYM, it's not entirely clear t what extent he's agreeing with me and to what extent he's saying something else
[11:48] <wrtp> fwereade: wdyt?
[11:49]  * fwereade is thinking
[11:49] <fwereade> wrtp, I think that, yes, *probably* we will want it to look like that
[11:50] <wrtp> fwereade: i've got to do something like that, as i need to pass in the VarDir somehow
[11:50] <fwereade> wrtp, the trouble is I kinda feel the surroundings are still somewhat in flux so I'm still not quite sure
[11:50] <fwereade> wrtp, indeed
[11:50] <fwereade> wrtp, I'd like it if we did the same with LogDir too
[11:50] <wrtp> fwereade: i tried a more minimal change before, but perhaps this will be better looked on
[11:50] <wrtp> fwereade: LogDir?
[11:51] <wrtp> fwereade: you mean we should have container.Config.LogDir?
[11:51] <fwereade> wrtp, /var/log/juju, needed for --log-file in jujud upstart scripts
[11:51] <fwereade> wrtp, I *think* so, yes
[11:51] <wrtp> fwereade: can't we just derive it from VarDir ?
[11:52] <fwereade> wrtp, vardir/../../log/juju?
[11:52] <wrtp> fwereade: oh yeah
[11:52] <wrtp> :-)
[11:52] <fwereade> ;p
[11:52] <wrtp> fwereade: you're probably right.
[11:52] <wrtp> fwereade: i'll add a TODO
[11:53] <fwereade> wrtp, cheers
[11:53] <wrtp> fwereade: is the log directory currently configurable anywhere in fact?
[11:54] <fwereade> wrtp, I think it's just hardcoded in cloudinit
[11:54] <wrtp> fwereade: i thought so. i don't mind that too much tbh, but some day
[13:54] <wrtp>  fwereade: any chance you could have another quick once-over on https://codereview.appspot.com/6501106 ?
[13:54] <wrtp> fwereade: i made that container change; i'm hoping it's not yet more crack.
[13:55] <fwereade> wrtp, ofc
[13:55] <fwereade> wrtp, it's tricky -- I *know* there's something nice waiting to emerge from the marble somewhere around there but I don't think either of us have quite nailed it yet (although I think you are looking in the right place)
[13:56] <wrtp> fwereade: it doesn't fix all the container problems (i have another branch for that), but i feel the API entry points are about right now.
[14:05] <fwereade> wrtp, +1 on Deploy/Destroy
[14:05] <wrtp> fwereade: thanks
[14:05] <fwereade> wrtp, just rereading everything else to try to remember what was involved
[14:05] <fwereade> niemeyer, heyhey
[14:05] <wrtp> niemeyer: hiya
[14:05] <niemeyer> GOod mornings
[14:05] <niemeyer> Or afternoons I guess
[14:08] <fwereade> niemeyer, sorry I missed you last night -- I'm still a little bit unsure about the uniter op/step naming, but have resolved to stop vacillating and propose it again more-or-less as you suggest; if I come up with something better that can be a new CL later
[14:09] <niemeyer> fwereade: Cool, I'm not super attached to those names either.. they just felt closer to what was going on than the State.Status stuff
[14:10] <fwereade> niemeyer, yeah, I have a deep-seated feeling that there's some simple recasting of everything going on there that will make clear and obvious sense
[14:10] <fwereade> niemeyer, the actual *logic* is really pretty trivial
[14:10] <wrtp> niemeyer: i'm hoping that this isn't still crack: https://codereview.appspot.com/6501106
[14:11] <wrtp> niemeyer: and it would be nice if you could resolve the juju-dir/var-dir question with fwereade. i don't feel strongly either way.
[14:11] <fwereade> niemeyer, well, I don't like VarDir unless it actually refers to /var, but I can live with any name really
[14:12] <wrtp> if i had to choose, "jujuDir" feels more descriptive. varDir doesn't really mean anything other than "directory with some variable contents" to me
[14:13] <wrtp> jujuRoot might work too
[14:13] <niemeyer> """
[14:13] <niemeyer> It is vague because it is truly vague. The only thing it means is "juju's
[14:13] <niemeyer> directory under var", because under it we have a bunch of different things with
[14:13] <niemeyer> more precise naming (bundles, unit containers, etc). No single precise FooDir
[14:13] <niemeyer> name will encompass it all.
[14:13] <niemeyer> """
[14:13] <fwereade> niemeyer, well, it's *one* of juju's directories under var
[14:14] <fwereade> niemeyer, if it were the only separate juju-specific dir under var I wouldn't be bothered
[14:14] <wrtp> niemeyer: i'm not sure it's entirely relevant that it's under var. it *may* be under var, but that's a platform-specific decision.
[14:14] <wrtp> niemeyer: hence we can configure it
[14:14] <niemeyer> wrtp, fwereade: Okay, alternatives?
[14:14] <wrtp> niemeyer: jujuRoot ?
[14:15] <niemeyer> wrtp: That's /
[14:15] <fwereade> niemeyer, we also used jujuHome in a couple of places in python iirc, but then that's not necessarily /var/lib/juju either
[14:15] <niemeyer> wrtp: Since that's the only directory that shares ~/.juju, /var/log/juju, /var/lib/juju, and whatever else we need
[14:15] <fwereade> niemeyer, no favour for LibDir/LogDir?
[14:16] <wrtp> jujuDataDir ?
[14:16] <wrtp> or just dataDir, perhaps
[14:16] <niemeyer> DataDir?
[14:16] <fwereade> niemeyer, +1
[14:16] <niemeyer> wrtp: +1 :-)
[14:16] <wrtp> :-)
[14:16] <wrtp> ok, i'll go for that then
[14:16] <niemeyer> Woohay consensus
[14:17] <wrtp> niemeyer: shall i change the flag name too?
[14:17] <wrtp> perhaps i should do that in another CL actually
[14:17] <wrtp> rather than bulking this one up more
[14:20] <niemeyer> wrtp: --data-dir sounds sane
[14:23]  * Aram food
[15:03] <wrtp> fwereade: container fixed, i hope: https://codereview.appspot.com/6498117
[15:04] <fwereade> wrtp, sweet,k looking
[15:13] <fwereade> wrtp, LGTM
[15:14] <fwereade> wrtp, very nice
[15:14] <wrtp> fwereade: wonderful thanks
[15:24] <wrtp> fwereade, niemeyer: i've made the change to dataDir from varDir. https://codereview.appspot.com/6501106
[15:28] <niemeyer> wrtp: Checking
[15:31] <fwereade> wrtp, LGTM
[15:31] <wrtp> fwereade: thanks
[15:41] <niemeyer> wrtp: done
[15:43] <wrtp> niemeyer: what's the difference between container.Simple(VarDir, InitDir) and container.Simple{VarDir: varDir, InitDir: initDir} ?
[15:43] <wrtp> niemeyer: given that we're eschewing globals, i can't see what the former can do that the latter can't
[15:44] <niemeyer> wrtp: This question seems to assume that we have Simple{}, which we don't.. so I don't understand why you're asking me that
[15:44] <wrtp> niemeyer: we *did* have Simple, but you told me it was wrong.
[15:44] <wrtp> niemeyer: so i changed to use the current scheme (which BTW i think is significantly better)
[15:45] <niemeyer> wrtp: Sorry, I'm pretty lost
[15:45] <niemeyer> wrtp: The branch is doing something else entirely
[15:45] <niemeyer> wrtp: I've reviewed it, and pointed it has issues
[15:45] <niemeyer> wrtp: Now you're blaming me for saying something else was improper, that is not what is in the branch, nor what I'm suggesting
[15:45] <niemeyer> wrtp: I'd like to help, but I don't know hwo
[15:45] <niemeyer> how
[15:46] <wrtp> niemeyer: *somehow* i've got to pass VarDir and InitDir through to container. i changed container so that that was done in a nice way, i thought.
[15:46] <niemeyer> wrtp: Yes, that's exactly what my comment is about
[15:46] <niemeyer> wrtp: The package interface was changed entirely
[15:46] <niemeyer> wrtp: unnecessarily
[15:46] <niemeyer> wrtp: and I'm explaining that.. that's all
[15:47] <niemeyer> wrtp: The original interface was better, as it allows containers to be implemented without changing the consumer interface
[15:47] <wrtp> niemeyer: i'm not sure i understand that
[15:47] <niemeyer> wrtp: It doesn't matter much, really
[15:47] <niemeyer> wrtp: your branch is about changing a global to a local.. we don't need to change the package interface for that
[15:47] <niemeyer> wrtp: We only need to provide simple with the location
[15:48] <wrtp> niemeyer: i don't see why a function constructor is better than a data constructor in this case.
[15:48] <niemeyer> wrtp: The original interface was put in place precisely so that we can have multiple containers, with different needs, and the same interface
[15:48] <niemeyer> wrtp: We're losing that
[15:48] <niemeyer> wrtp: Let's not, please, and let's focus on what you're claiming to do with the bracnh
[15:48] <wrtp> niemeyer: k
[15:49]  * wrtp rewinds the dataDir changes
[15:49] <niemeyer> wrtp: The data constructor is fine, btw
[15:49] <niemeyer> wrtp: If you want Simple{}, that's fine
[15:49] <niemeyer> wrtp: I don't think I argued against that
[15:49] <wrtp> niemeyer: that's what i had that you objected to!
[15:50] <niemeyer> wrtp: Where did I do this?
[15:50] <wrtp> ""
[15:50] <wrtp> This is true, but the decision is made considering settings, which means
[15:50] <wrtp> that the API won't look like this (won't receive it through
[15:50] <wrtp> constructor), so I agree with William that this seems premature. It's
[15:50] <wrtp> also a bit unrelated to the CL topic.
[15:50] <wrtp> ""
[15:51] <niemeyer> wrtp: That's *completely* unrelated to the container package interface
[15:51] <niemeyer> wrtp: That's in *machiner*
[15:51] <niemeyer> wrtp: and is still true.. we don't have to pass a container through its constructor
[15:51] <wrtp> niemeyer: ok, so why was that code wrong? i must have got the wrong end of the stick
[15:51] <wrtp> (i did find that sentence difficult to parse, it's true)
[15:51] <niemeyer> wrtp: The machiner will never make good use of a container being passed through its constructor
[15:52] <niemeyer> wrtp: Because it needs to decide internally how it's supposed to deploy
[15:52] <wrtp> niemeyer: there's only one Simple container though.
[15:52] <niemeyer> wrtp: !?
[15:52] <niemeyer> wrtp: and the sky is blue..? :)
[15:53] <wrtp> niemeyer: there's only one Simple container that the machiner needs to use
[15:53] <wrtp> niemeyer: it can use that for all local deployments
[15:54] <wrtp> niemeyer: hence it can live in the Machiner struct AFAICS with no loss of generality
[15:54] <niemeyer> wrtp: Sorry, I don't understand your point.. yes, there's only ever going to be one Simple container in juju
[15:54] <niemeyer> wrtp: What does that mean?
[15:54] <wrtp> niemeyer: it means i can store it in the Machiner struct, no?
[15:54] <wrtp> niemeyer: which is what i was doing. i seem to be missing some fundamental issue here...
[15:55] <niemeyer> wrtp: You can store it wherever you want..
[15:55] <niemeyer> wrtp: NewMachiner should not take a container
[15:55] <wrtp> niemeyer: it doesn't
[15:55] <niemeyer> wrtp: That's William's point, and that's my point
[15:55] <wrtp> niemeyer: it never did
[15:55] <wrtp> niemeyer: the *internal* constructor took a container
[15:55] <wrtp> niemeyer: so that we can see when deploys happen
[15:56] <wrtp> niemeyer: (there's otherwise no way of finding that out, i think)
[15:56] <niemeyer> https://codereview.appspot.com/6501106/diff/1001/worker/machiner/export_test.go?column_width=90
[15:56] <niemeyer> wrtp: That's broken
[15:57] <wrtp> niemeyer: ok, so how can i test that the machiner is actually doing something?
[15:57] <niemeyer> wrtp: Sorry, can we stop the derail?
[15:57] <niemeyer> wrtp: This CL is changing VarDir to a local..
[15:57] <niemeyer> wrtp: Can we do just that and move on?
[15:57] <niemeyer> wrtp: We've been debating about changes in interfaces to various things so far
[15:59] <wrtp> niemeyer: the old code changed the instance of Simple in the container package, so it could mock it.
[15:59] <wrtp> niemeyer: we can't do that any more.
[15:59] <wrtp> niemeyer: so this was my simplest idea for changing that
[15:59] <niemeyer> wrtp: I don't understand.. we had a simple container being used
[15:59] <niemeyer> wrtp: simple := container.Simple{DataDir: dataDir}
[15:59] <niemeyer> wrtp: Done?
[15:59] <niemeyer> wrtp: I don't understand where all the debate is coming from
[16:00] <wrtp> niemeyer: if we do that, how can the testing code know when the machiner is actually doing a deploy?
[16:00] <niemeyer> wrtp: How did we do that before?
[16:01] <wrtp> niemeyer: Simple was a global variable of type container.Container. we changed its value in the test to our own local implementation.
[16:01] <niemeyer> wrtp: Argh, ok.. so we were already mocking before :(
[16:01] <wrtp> niemeyer: yes. and given that container can't work if you're not root, i don't see how we can avoid it
[16:02] <niemeyer> wrtp: What's the simple container doing?
[16:02]  * niemeyer looks
[16:02] <wrtp> niemeyer: it calls upstart.Install
[16:02] <niemeyer> wrtp: Yeah, so why is that being mocked? If we're passing the directories being changed in.. ?
[16:03] <niemeyer> wrtp: Hmm.. I suppose container is broken, since it should be starting the upstart script too?
[16:03] <wrtp> niemeyer: sorry, i don't understand the second part of your question
[16:03] <niemeyer> wrtp: DataDir and InitDir are both variables
[16:03] <wrtp> niemeyer: it does start the upstart script too, i think
[16:03] <niemeyer> wrtp: That we're now giving the machiner
[16:03] <niemeyer> wrtp: It should.. but it's not clear if it does..
[16:03] <wrtp> niemeyer: only DataDir actually
[16:03]  * niemeyer looks at what Install does
[16:04] <niemeyer> a installs and *starts*, ok
[16:04] <niemeyer> wrtp: Okay, sorry, the confusion is my fault then
[16:05] <niemeyer> wrtp: We are already stuck with the mocking of container, and once we introduce a second one we'll need to change the way we're testing the machiner
[16:05] <niemeyer> wrtp: +1 on your original design of passing a container in for tests
[16:05] <wrtp> niemeyer: i think the container package can decide which container is appropriate to use, based on the Unit
[16:06] <niemeyer> wrtp: It wasn't clear to me that were were replacing what the container.Simpler global meant
[16:06] <wrtp> niemeyer: that's the rationale for the most recent change
[16:06] <niemeyer> wrtp: It can't
[16:06] <wrtp> niemeyer: no? ok.
[16:06] <niemeyer> wrtp: Container kind is an environment-defined setting, not per unit
[16:07] <wrtp> niemeyer: what info does the uniter have that container doesn't?
[16:07] <wrtp> niemeyer: and why couldn't that environment setting live in the Config?
[16:07] <niemeyer> wrtp: Sorry, I don't understand the question... container is a deployment package.. uniter has a lot of information that container doesn't
[16:10] <wrtp> niemeyer: ok, so do i take it that my original code was ok?
[16:11] <niemeyer> wrtp: The original way in which you were testing machiner was ok, if that's your question
[16:11] <niemeyer> wrtp: We'll need to rethink it when we introduce LXC, but it doesn't matter for now
[16:11] <niemeyer> wrtp: We already have that problem
[16:12] <wrtp> niemeyer: i think the most recent approach doesn't have the problems with LXC. the kind of container to use for isolation could be a parameter in the config.
[16:12] <wrtp> niemeyer: and the container package could decide whether it's appropriate to isolate a unit
[16:13] <wrtp> niemeyer: so the current machiner code would hardly need to change at all for LXC
[16:13] <wrtp> niemeyer: i'm still pushing slightly for it because it's going to be a right hassle to rewind and go through another half-hour's worth of conflict resolution.
[16:15] <niemeyer> wrtp: If that's all it takes, we can trivially pass a set of containers instead of a single one and get to the same place..
[16:16] <niemeyer> wrtp: The changes in design to the container package are not an improvement, and I'd appreciate if we didn't do that
[16:17] <niemeyer> wrtp: You're basically dropping the concept of a Container interface, and putting it all inside the package itself as hidden details, with a single jumbo config that acts for all containers
[16:17] <niemeyer> wrtp: It also takes away the ability for a container implementation to cache information, such as what are the things it has seen alive or not
[16:18] <niemeyer> wrtp: we'll have to land that information in globals instead, if we want to do it
[16:18] <niemeyer> wrtp: These aren't improvements
[16:19] <wrtp> niemeyer: ok, i finally think i see where you're coming from on this.
[16:20] <wrtp> niemeyer: thanks for explaining
[16:21] <niemeyer> wrtp: np, and sorry for the partial detail on the test of machiner.. I misunderstood there
[16:21] <niemeyer> s/detail/derail/
[16:21] <wrtp> niemeyer: that's ok.
[16:21] <wrtp> niemeyer: luckily i can work late tonight
[16:23] <niemeyer> wrtp: Ouch
[16:29] <wrtp> niemeyer: it's true that i'm a bit sad about the derail, but i'm also stoked to get past these branches and actually get stuff working. we're really very close.
[16:33] <niemeyer> wrtp: +1!
[16:46] <wrtp> niemeyer: hopefully this will do the trick: https://codereview.appspot.com/6501106
[16:51] <niemeyer> wrtp: Done, cheers
[16:52] <wrtp> niemeyer: thanks
[17:25] <wrtp> niemeyer: do you know about this test failure? http://paste.ubuntu.com/1200932/
[17:26] <niemeyer> wrtp: ... Panic: no reachable servers (PC=0x4116D4)
[17:26] <niemeyer> wrtp: This is the root
[17:27] <niemeyer> wrtp: mgo.Dial is not finding the mongodb server running
[17:27] <wrtp> niemeyer: is that a race thing? i only get this error sporadically
[17:27] <wrtp> niemeyer: perhaps some timeout should be longer?
[17:27] <niemeyer> wrtp: 15 seconds is the default IIRC.. I've never seen a mongodb server take that long to start
[17:27] <wrtp> niemeyer: (speaking of which, i got an mstate/presence failure this morning - the test that waits for 1 second)
[17:28] <niemeyer> wrtp: It's generally sub-second
[17:28] <wrtp> niemeyer: i guess mongo just failed to start then
[17:29] <niemeyer> wrtp: Yeah, wonder why
[17:29] <wrtp> niemeyer: is there a log somewhere?
[17:29] <niemeyer> wrtp: the suite will tell
[17:30] <niemeyer> wrtp: Apparently not
[17:31] <wrtp> niemeyer: yeah, looks like s.output is dropped on panic.
[17:31] <wrtp> niemeyer: that might be a useful thing not to do :-)
[17:32] <niemeyer> wrtp: Indeed
[17:41] <wrtp> interesting. first time i've seen this live failure:
[17:41] <wrtp> 07.05.602 /home/rog/src/go-alt/src/launchpad.net/juju-core/environs/jujutest/livetests.go:162:
[17:41] <wrtp> 07.05.606     c.Assert(err, IsNil)
[17:41] <wrtp> 07.05.606 ... value *errors.errorString = &errors.errorString{s:"session error: ZooKeeper connecting"} ("session error: ZooKeeper connecting")
[17:41] <wrtp> niemeyer: i thought zk didn't time out.
[17:45] <niemeyer> wrtp: ... don't know what to say
[17:45] <wrtp> niemeyer: 's'alright. i wondered if you might have seen similar.
[17:45] <niemeyer> wrtp: I haven't
[17:45] <wrtp> niemeyer: it's not the world's most informative error message :-)
[17:46] <wrtp> niemeyer: currently trying to reproduce. we'll see.
[17:49] <niemeyer> wrtp: zk definitely has timeouts, and we definitely fail if we get an error from zk
[17:50] <wrtp> niemeyer: looks like it was a sporadic failure.
[17:56] <niemeyer> wrtp, fwereade: You'll probably like that one: https://codereview.appspot.com/6503109
[17:59] <wrtp> niemeyer: yay! LGTM
[18:02] <wrtp> niemeyer: hmm, i did a apt-get update; apt-get install lbox and it hasn't found a newer version. should i use the Go version?
[18:03] <niemeyer> wrtp: There's certainly a new version in the PPA
[18:03] <niemeyer> wrtp: 1.0-<IP_ADDRESS>~precise1
[18:03] <niemeyer> wrtp: This is the latest
[18:04]  * wrtp can't remember how to find the currently installed version
[18:05] <wrtp> niemeyer: 1.0-<IP_ADDRESS>~oneiric1
[18:05] <wrtp> is what i've got
[18:06] <wrtp> hmm, i wonder why i'm on an oneiric version
[18:09] <wrtp> darn
[18:09] <wrtp> % go get launchpad.net/lbox
[18:10] <wrtp> package launchpad.net/lbox
[18:10] <wrtp> 	imports exp/html: unrecognized import path "exp/html"
[18:10] <wrtp> oh well, will wait until it works. can't be bothered to update to go tip for now.
[18:14] <wrtp> niemeyer: could we have a chat about this? i'd like to move forward with it if possible. https://codereview.appspot.com/6495086/
[18:23] <niemeyer> wrtp:
[18:23] <niemeyer> [niemeyer@gopher ..nchpad.net/lbox]% grep html *
[18:23] <niemeyer> [niemeyer@gopher ..nchpad.net/lbox]%
[18:23] <niemeyer> wrtp: Your machine seems pretty unfriendly today :)
[18:24] <niemeyer> wrtp: Ah, could be lpad..
[18:24] <wrtp> niemeyer: the actual error is
[18:24] <wrtp> ../goetveld/rietveld/form.go:7:2: import "exp/html": cannot find package
[18:25] <niemeyer> wrtp: form.go:        "launchpad.net/goetveld/rietveld/html"
[18:25] <niemeyer> wrtp: The package is in the PPA, and the goetveld package doesn't depend on exp/html for a while
[18:25] <wrtp> niemeyer: ah! i should remove goetveld
[18:25] <niemeyer> wrtp: Seems like things are out of date in both fronts there
[18:25] <wrtp> niemeyer: pity go get -u doesn't work
[18:25] <niemeyer> wrtp: Check if you have the PPA configured
[18:26] <niemeyer> wrtp: apt-get update won't help otherwise
[18:26] <wrtp> niemeyer: which PPA is it?
[18:26] <niemeyer> wrtp: ppa:gophers/go
[18:28] <wrtp> niemeyer: ah, that'll be the reason then. i guess it was probably lost when my system upgraded.
[18:29] <wrtp> niemeyer: thanks
[18:29] <niemeyer> wrtp: np
[19:18] <wrtp> niemeyer: from the CL:
[19:18] <wrtp> ""
[19:18] <wrtp> Two options with the current interface - either I add a series
[19:18] <wrtp> argument to all the entry points, or I add "WithSeries" variants
[19:18] <wrtp> of all the functions. Any preference here before I go off and do the
[19:18] <wrtp> wrong thing?
[19:18] <wrtp> ""
[19:18] <wrtp> have you got a preference here?
[19:23] <niemeyer> wrtp: Your changes to the actual method interfaces seemed nice
[19:23] <niemeyer> wrtp: My complaints was only about the whole refactoring on how the helper is instantiated and hooked everywhere
[19:24] <wrtp> niemeyer: i wish i'd realised that. it sounded like you didn't like any change to the existing interface.
[19:24] <niemeyer> wrtp: Having series seems fine
[19:25] <wrtp> niemeyer: i think i'll go with reverting everything. it's much less work.
[19:25] <niemeyer> wrtp: I realize you're trying to fix a problem you found
[19:25] <niemeyer> wrtp: I was only arguing that the problem you found seems much simpler than the amount of work we've both put on this already
[19:26] <wrtp> niemeyer: perhaps that's true. but i've already done that work, and now i have to do quite a bit more to undo it and put in another fix.
[19:26] <niemeyer> wrtp: Yep, you've already done that work *several* times..
[19:26] <niemeyer> wrtp: unfortunately the last incarnation doesn't look good
[19:26] <wrtp> niemeyer: twice only.
[19:26] <niemeyer> wrtp: But I cant' be blamed for not liking every incarnation :)
[19:27] <wrtp> niemeyer: i *thought* it was significantly better than the suite idea
[19:27] <niemeyer> wrtp: There was a simple change in the beginning, then a refactoring, then another refactoring
[19:27] <niemeyer> wrtp: While all you needed was a series argument
[19:29] <wrtp> niemeyer: that's true. sometimes it seems like something is worthwhile when actually it's not.
[19:31] <wrtp> niemeyer: BTW there *was* only one refactoring - note that most files have only two versions.
[19:32] <niemeyer> wrtp: There were pastes before that
[19:32] <niemeyer> wrtp: But it's ok, it's really not worth arguing further
[19:33] <wrtp> niemeyer: agreed. i'm on it now.
[19:39] <wrtp> dammit, it's not as easy as i thought. unmerging is a right pain.
[21:09] <wrtp> niemeyer: this is trivial, as discussed earlier: https://codereview.appspot.com/6489117/
[21:09] <niemeyer> wrtp: I'm half-way through already.. just be ready in a moment
[21:09] <wrtp> niemeyer: ta
[21:25] <niemeyer> wrtp: done
[21:28] <wrtp> niemeyer: thanks a lot.
[21:29] <niemeyer> wrtp: My pleasure, thanks for the fixes
[21:30] <wrtp> niemeyer: did you look at the branch i mentioned above (the series argument added to the Repo methods)? it should be trivial.
[21:31] <wrtp> niemeyer: (just realised it looks like you might have assumed i was referring to another branch)
[21:33] <wrtp> niemeyer: i can submit the authorize-internal-traffic branch which depends on it if it LGTY
[21:34] <wrtp> niemeyer: i've discovered a little more about the bizarre bzr behaviour i encountered earlier. it's in the branch in launchpad. if i push to any other branch, it works.
[21:37] <wrtp> % lbox propose -wip -req 058-testing-charm-series
[21:37] <wrtp> error: Branch check failed: exit status 1
[21:37] <wrtp> -----
[21:37] <wrtp> gofmt is sad:
[21:37] <wrtp>   environs/jujutest/livetests.go
[21:37] <wrtp> yay!
[21:37] <niemeyer> !!
[21:37] <niemeyer> wrtp: Hmm, interesting
[21:38] <niemeyer> LOL
[21:38] <niemeyer> wrtp:
[21:38] <niemeyer> https://codereview.appspot.com/6498117/
[21:38] <niemeyer> https://codereview.appspot.com/6489117/
[21:38] <niemeyer> wrtp: Both are yours :-)
[21:39] <wrtp> niemeyer: erm, yes. is there something i should notice there?
[21:40] <niemeyer> wrtp: The numbers
[21:40] <wrtp> niemeyer: cool!
[21:40] <wrtp> niemeyer: now i see why you assumed i was referring to a different branch!
[21:41] <niemeyer> wrtp: RIght :)
[21:42] <wrtp> niemeyer: might the "dangling branch reference" be the source of my problem? http://paste.ubuntu.com/1201394/
[21:42] <wrtp> niemeyer: (not that i care any more; i'm abandoning that branch because my prereq has changed)
[21:43] <niemeyer> wrtp: Uh.. probably
[21:43] <niemeyer> wrtp: I don't recall seeing that before
[21:43] <niemeyer> wrtp: review sent
[21:43] <niemeyer> wrtp: Just suggested inverting the parameters so it matches how we use the two arguments elsewhere (sorry :()
[21:43] <wrtp> niemeyer: damn, i wondered about that as i was doing it
[21:45] <niemeyer> wrtp: Hopefully sed can do it for you
[21:45] <wrtp> niemeyer: yeah, i did it before. shouldn't be much hassle.
[21:45] <wrtp> niemeyer: structural regexps - even better than sed :-)
[21:48] <niemeyer> wrtp: Oh?
[21:49] <niemeyer> wrtp: How does that work?
[21:51] <wrtp> niemeyer: http://bit.ly/RSC1iU
[21:55] <niemeyer> CHeers
[22:03] <wrtp> niemeyer: here was my expression for changing the args around BTW. it doesn't really leverage much though - sed would be just as easy here.
[22:03] <wrtp> X/./,x/testing.Charms.*"series"\)/s/(,[^,]*), "series"\)/, "series"\1)/
[22:03] <wrtp> niemeyer: but the x pattern is a common one - narrow down scope until you've got something of known form. then hack at it
[22:07] <wrtp> niemeyer: it occurs to me that gofmt would probably have been a better approach here!
[22:14] <wrtp> niemeyer: gofmt -w -r 'testing.Charms.x(z, a, b) -> testing.Charms.x(z, b, a)' $gofiles
[22:15] <wrtp> niemeyer: gofmt rules
[22:34] <niemeyer> wrtp: Woah
[22:34] <niemeyer> wrtp: Impressive indeed
[22:35] <wrtp> niemeyer: the only thing it failed on was when it was using coretesting not testing
[22:59] <wrtp> niemeyer: i think i need a UnitWatcher, same kind of thing as the MachineWatcher. sound reasonable to you?
[23:07] <grantgm> hey folks! i'm giving a talk about PaaS and wondering if anyone has a reference for when Juju (or Ensemble, at that time) was first released? I don't see it on either the "about" page or the wikipedia page...
[23:08] <SpamapS> grantgm: good question. :)
[23:09] <grantgm> :)
[23:09] <SpamapS> grantgm: If you count shipping it in the distro as "first released" then that would be when Ubuntu 11.10 was released
[23:09] <SpamapS> grantgm: 0.5+bzr398-0ubuntu1
[23:10] <grantgm> hmmm...ok, that sounds like about when I first heard of it. but presumably it was usable via PPA before that, right?
[23:11] <SpamapS> grantgm: yeah, the first time I saw it was January of 2011, from the PPA
[23:11] <grantgm> just want to make sure i'm not short-changing it w.r.t. the big release announcements (before they were really usable) from the other players
[23:12] <grantgm> SpamapS, ok, cool, i guess i'll go with that
[23:12] <grantgm> SpamapS, thanks!
[23:12] <SpamapS> grantgm: its still, in many ways, just a tech preview :)
[23:12] <SpamapS> grantgm: http://juju.ubuntu.com/docs .. says so :)
[23:13] <grantgm> well, it's a pretty damn impressive tech preview, then! but really, aren't they all? :)
[23:13] <grantgm> SpamapS, thanks again!
[23:13] <niemeyer> wrtp: Yeah, certainly
[23:14] <niemeyer> grantgm: It was first seen working even around march 2010
[23:14] <niemeyer> s/even/ever
[23:14] <niemeyer> Erm, sorry
[23:14] <niemeyer> 2011
[23:15] <niemeyer> What SpamapS said, actually
[23:15] <SpamapS> niemeyer: right, it was in the PPA in January, but we weren't really talking about it until March. :)
[23:16] <SpamapS> it lived in public obscurity
[23:17] <grantgm> SpamapS, niemeyer, ok, so maybe i'll go with March then. That still puts it out ahead of Cloud Foundry (April) and  OpenShift (May) :)
[23:20] <SpamapS> grantgm: I'd be interested to see how you're drawing a comparison between juju and cloudfoundry.
[23:20] <SpamapS> since.. juju deploys cloudfoundry
[23:20] <grantgm> yea, i know it's definitely not a perfect comparison...the first thing i'm talking about is that the definition of paas is very fuzzy
[23:21] <grantgm> basically anything in the massive void between traditional IaaS and SaaS gets assigned the PaaS moniker, which is really rather silly
[23:21] <SpamapS> its a silly human trait
[23:21] <SpamapS> we can't have groups of 1
[23:22] <wrtp> niemeyer: done: https://codereview.appspot.com/6498124
[23:23] <wrtp> niemeyer: if it's ok i'll hold off on the mstate unit watcher until the generic watcher logic is back in place there.
[23:24] <wrtp> davecheney: morning!
[23:32] <davecheney> wrtp: hello


[11:19] <airurando> http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-ie/2327-raring-ringtail-release-revelries-dublin/
[11:19] <airurando> Who's going?
[11:20] <airurando> ebel: slashbel?
[11:20] <zmoylan> planning too.  will be relaxing the day before to get there.
[11:21] <airurando> zmoylan: me to.  Back to work on Monday 15th.  Should be on days for a few weeks at the start.
[11:21] <zmoylan> so leg is improving?
[11:22] <airurando> yip
[11:22] <zmoylan> huzzah!
[11:22] <airurando> temp screw will be taken on on the 19th.
[11:22] <airurando> happy days
[11:22] <zmoylan> do you get to keep it as a souvineer? :-)
[11:23] <airurando> don't know but I don't want it
[11:24]  * slashbel would need to consult with the ebek
[11:24]  * slashbel would need to consult with the ebel
[11:25]  * airurando keeps fingers crossed that ebel and slashbel can make it :-)
[11:34] <ebel> yeah
[17:31] <czajkowski> FYI folks there wont be a 13/04 DVD release
[19:29] <airurando> no install media being printed and distributed for 13.04
[19:29] <airurando> concentrating on the LTS releases from now on.
[19:29] <airurando> http://lococouncil.ubuntu.com/2013/04/05/about-ubuntu-13-04-cdsdvds/
[19:30] <airurando> proper order in my opinion :-)
[19:32] <czajkowski> nods
[19:35] <airurando> czajowski I've thoughtn that way for a long time.
[19:36] <airurando> everything in that blogpost makes perfect sense.
[19:36] <czajkowski> cheers
[19:37] <czajkowski> hope everyone else feels the same way
[19:37] <czajkowski> I know for some people they wanted the dvds
[19:37] <airurando> geeks want interim releases. Geeks can make the DVDs themselves
[19:38] <airurando> or usb sticks for that matter
[19:38] <czajkowski> indeed
[19:52] <chrono800> 8-) hey, anyone about for a natter??
[19:52] <airurando> howdy chrono800
[19:53] <chrono800> howdy buddy?
[19:53] <airurando> see details are up for the dublin party?
[19:53] <chrono800> How did it go with your checkup?
[19:53] <airurando> good
[19:53] <chrono800> where?
[19:54] <airurando> http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-ie/2327-raring-ringtail-release-revelries-dublin/
[19:55] <airurando> I'm back to driving (or trying to depress the clutch) next week.
[19:55] <chrono800> What are the numbers looking like people wise that are definitely going?  male/female balance?
[19:55] <airurando> back to work on the 15th
[19:56] <airurando> temp screw coming out on the 19th
[19:56] <airurando> so far just you and me number wise for the release party
[19:56] <chrono800> the 15th Apr?  Thats not far away !!=-O
[19:57] <airurando> feels like we are having two conversations at the same time ;-)
[19:57] <chrono800> We can have the crack anyway so, ;)
[19:57] <chrono800> But we are ;)
[19:58] <chrono800> are home, can I call your landline?
[19:58] <chrono800> are you home that is?
[19:58] <airurando> let me find it
[19:58]  * airurando hobbles off
[19:58] <chrono800> ??
[19:59] <chrono800> hobbies off, I don't follow, sorry, :-/
[21:42] <andru183> found out why I couldn't upload photo's, pics are up of the first UH this year
[21:42] <andru183> http://pix.ie/ubuntuie/album/460977
[22:05] <czajkowski> andru183: ello


[04:09] <stanobux> I have searched and I have a noob question:
[04:09] <stanobux> Sorry, nevermind!
[18:08] <highvoltage> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1086483
[18:08] <highvoltage> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/edubuntu-live/+bug/1086498
[18:09] <highvoltage> those seem to be the biggest bugs affecting alpha 1
[18:18] <highvoltage> stgraber: if you have some time at some point for proof-reading... http://edubuntu.org/2012-12-06/edubuntu-13.04-alpha1
[18:31] <stgraber> highvoltage: are you planning on fixing those? if not, you probably should re-target them to something other than -alpha1 and assign them to me
[18:31] <stgraber> I'll take a look at the announcement a bit later today
[18:42] <highvoltage> stgraber: ah yes, good point, I was distracted and screwed up :)
[22:33] <highvoltage> stgraber: so I have some form of release notes ready on the site and we have an iso that's tested with documented known issues, what else is necessary for the alpha?
[22:44] <stgraber> highvoltage: you'll probably want an URL that doesn't include the date (similar to those we use for release)
[22:45] <stgraber> highvoltage: besides that, I'll probably poke you with the link to the etherpad tomorrow so you can write a couple of lines for the announcement
[22:47] <highvoltage> ok


[02:35]  * arosales forgot to put in here that I was reviewing xcat, but sent my findings to the list
[04:55] <ddellav> jamespage, i missed your message earlier, here's the MP: https://code.launchpad.net/~ddellav/charms/trusty/neutron-api/ml2-port-security/+merge/276764
[13:59] <rajalokan> Hey guys. Any way of deploying a juju charm from local source code instead of pulling from github.
[13:59] <rajalokan> Any pointers or help appreciated.
[19:12] <tvansteenburgh> rajalokan: https://jujucharms.com/docs/devel/charms-deploying#deploying-from-a-local-repository
[19:38] <rajalokan> Thanks tvansteenburgh for replying. Was away so couldn't reply. But this isn't the answer I was looking.
[19:38] <rajalokan> I guess I was wrong in framing the question.
[19:40] <rajalokan> What I want is to deploy say OpenStack keystone, But not any distro packaged liberty release or liberty release from OpenStack github page. Rather keystone should be installed from my local source code.
[19:41] <rajalokan> Was thinking if we can use juju to setup developer workstation. Apologies again for improperly framed question.
[19:45] <tvansteenburgh> rajalokan: there is a "Deploying from source" section here https://jujucharms.com/keystone/trusty/31, maybe that helps?
[19:56] <rajalokan> Thanks tvansteenburgh. Going though it but I remember seeing `repositories` accept only 'git' or 'bzr'. Nothing like a file system.
[19:56] <rajalokan> Let me find that out.
[19:56] <tvansteenburgh> rajalokan: yeah you would probably have to push your code to a public repo
[19:58] <rajalokan> Yeah. seems like it. Just wanted to confirm it here. I will stick with devstack for some more while then.
[20:53] <wolsen> rajalokan: you may want to touch base with coreycb on the deploy from source. Presumably the local file system it's being deployed from points to a guy repo somewhere, iirc it uses that to branch locally - theoretically you could make local edits then redeploy but I may be wrong on that. coreycb is the guy you want to talk to on it though
[20:54] <wolsen> err s/guy repo/git repo - on my phone - lovely autocorrect
[21:02] <rick_h__> rajalokan: tvansteenburgh we're working on something like this for this cycle
[21:02] <rick_h__> rajalokan: tvansteenburgh where you can mount your local filesystem with the lxd provider to do openstack dev as you describe
[21:02] <rick_h__> rajalokan: and the charms would be able to locate the source code to use off that mounted shared filesystem
[21:02] <rick_h__> rajalokan: tvansteenburgh so it's not here atm, but a use case teams are working on for 16.04
[21:03] <rick_h__> rajalokan: look for the lxd provider work soon (the first leg of the task) and happy to have folks test things out and see how they feel as we work along
[21:38] <tvansteenburgh> rick_h__: cool, thanks. saw a demo of the lxd provider yesterday - eager to give that a spin


[04:24] <jdwwatts> when my laptop said upgrade available and it came back with the error E: systemd-:installed systemd-package portremoval script process error status 2
[13:49] <visone> howdy
[16:37] <Kumool> howdy
[17:52] <xubuntu00i> Hi
[20:40] <SeTunTun> hello. After a lot of problems and a lot of help from here, my bluetooth works almos t perfect.
[20:41] <SeTunTun> there is only a strange problem. When I scan bluetooth devices i can only discover phones. I can't dicover another computer, car handsfree or odbII.
[20:42] <SeTunTun> Is there any kind of restriction? If i insert an external bluetooth dongle, then i can discover all the devices.
[20:43] <diogenes_> SeTunTun, check with other computers if they have bluetooth set to "visible to everyone"
[20:50] <SeTunTun> yes, they are visible. also the car and the odbII
[21:12] <SeTunTun> My laptop has an integrated bluetooth 3 chip. I'm afraid that my other devices are bluetooth 4. It may be an incompatibility problem.
[21:12] <SeTunTun> maybe that explains why the usb bluetooth dongle (bt 4) can discover everything...


[13:59] <dholbach> davidcalle: I pushed an update which fixes the only-update-article-if-html-changed thing and adds a test for it
[14:01] <dholbach> looking at http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~dholbach/developer-ubuntu-com/rework-importer/view/head:/md_importer/TODO there's not a whole lot left
[14:02] <dholbach> the first item is something we can maybe take a look at together - and maybe even make it visibly clearer which docs a user looks at
[14:02] <dholbach> the second seems not to be an issue, although it is confusing
[14:02] <dholbach> and the third one can wait
[14:34] <dholbach> and I pushed a fix for update-template which was broken with the django update


[21:41] <kai_> heya i am trying to get virtualbox guest additions to work with lubuntu 23.04 with no joy


[21:09] <wowoaao> heya
[21:11] <wowoaao> i tried to install windows 7 for a dual boot with my xubuntu but the win just destroyed my linux lol
[21:12] <wowoaao> now i need to reinstall this again :D
[22:08] <Drone> In accordance with https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-irc/2021-May/001923.html we are moving to libera.chat and would love to see you there. Please update your launchpad pages with your libera.chat account to help with transition.
[22:13] <Drone> In accordance with https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-irc/2021-May/001923.html we are moving to libera.chat and would love to see you there. Please update your launchpad pages with your libera.chat account to help with transition.
[22:18] <Drone> In accordance with https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-irc/2021-May/001923.html we are moving to libera.chat and would love to see you there. Please update your launchpad pages with your libera.chat account to help with transition.
[22:23] <Drone> In accordance with https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-irc/2021-May/001923.html we are moving to libera.chat and would love to see you there. Please update your launchpad pages with your libera.chat account to help with transition.
[22:28] <Drone> In accordance with https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-irc/2021-May/001923.html we are moving to libera.chat and would love to see you there. Please update your launchpad pages with your libera.chat account to help with transition.
[22:33] <Drone> In accordance with https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-irc/2021-May/001923.html we are moving to libera.chat and would love to see you there. Please update your launchpad pages with your libera.chat account to help with transition.
[22:37] <Drone> In accordance with https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-irc/2021-May/001923.html we are moving to libera.chat and would love to see you there. Please update your launchpad pages with your libera.chat account to help with transition.
[22:57] <Drone> In accordance with https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-irc/2021-May/001923.html we are moving to libera.chat and would love to see you there. Please update your launchpad pages with your libera.chat account to help with transition.
[22:59] <doc|home> Unit193: might I suggest reducing the frequency of that message? :)
[22:59] <Unit193> doc|home: Yeah I changed it to 1200, perhaps even less would be good.
[23:00] <doc|home> ok, cool, not like this is a high traffic channel really :)
[23:00] <Unit193> No, #ubuntu is a little more so.
[23:00] <doc|home> yup!
[23:17] <Drone> In accordance with https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-irc/2021-May/001923.html we are moving to libera.chat and would love to see you there. Please update your launchpad pages with your libera.chat account to help with transition.
[23:37] <Drone> In accordance with https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-irc/2021-May/001923.html we are moving to Libera Chat and would love to see you there! Please update your Launchpad profile with your Libera Chat account as appropriate to help with the transition.
[23:57] <Drone> In accordance with https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-irc/2021-May/001923.html we are moving to Libera Chat and would love to see you there! Please update your Launchpad profile with your Libera Chat account as appropriate to help with the transition.


[09:39] <piscvau> Hello My xubuntu system freezes very often, then I need to reboot. Is there a log in which I could have a hint of what happens before I reboot?
[13:17] <tom-11> Hello . I would appreciate your help with two questions that I can't find an answer to. I'm currently using Virt-Manager version 2.2.1. Installed Xubuntu for testing. Problem one. I can take and transfer any file from the host to the virtual machine. I want to understand what setting affects this and remove it. So that nothing can be transferred to or from a virtual machine!
[13:20] <tom-1>  I can attach a configuration file if you need it
[17:29] <xu-irc79w> hey
[17:34] <xu-irc38w> hwy
[17:34] <xu-irc38w> ]hwy
[17:34] <xu-irc38w> hey
[17:36] <xu-irc38w> I have a problem because I have a thinkpad x230, the volume up and down buttons do not work for several hours
[18:00] <bob_1> Hello everyone. Please tell me how to fix the error.
[18:00] <bob_1> I installed Virt-manager  and can transfer any file from host to virtual-mashine
[18:09] <genii> Some description of the error your are experiencing may be useful
[18:16] <bob-1> Genii ,thank you for your reply. Now I will listen to a small video and show an error, so it will be clearer.
[18:29] <bob-1> https://drop.infini.fr/r/okZarSvYbZ#Ct8dkaFc+1JvB/LDgrsi+a5gpzYir7xuA/XwtCkDR8k=
[18:30] <bob-1> Here I recorded a video of my mistake. I would be grateful for help!
[19:00] <oerheks> explain the mistake; you seems to be able to transfer a file from the host to your vm