[09:34] <oerheks> !isitoutyet
[09:34] <oerheks> ..ohhhh
[09:34] <oerheks> what is not out, ubot5 ?
[09:35] <oerheks> .. clever marketing
[12:09] <lordievader> Good afternoon
[12:10] <BluesKaj> Hey folks
[15:22] <EriC^^> evening all
[17:05] <nicomachus> good lord, what a day on #ubuntu...
[17:05] <daftykins> mmm?
[17:05] <daftykins> do tell :)
[17:08] <nicomachus> 12:06 < lfowlr> do you even understand it's ouput?
[17:08] <nicomachus> when nacc asked for a full dmesg
[17:08] <nicomachus> 12:04 < ironhoof> I am ubuntu 14.04 and after using -reinstall in the package
[17:08] <nicomachus>                   manager I now have 2 init, dbus daemons, and 2 upstarts is
[17:09] <nicomachus>                   there a way to correct this?
[17:09] <nicomachus> that's just.... what? how does that even happen?
[17:15] <ducasse> that lfowlr character just lost any attention from me by calling someone 'idiot' for the 2nd time
[17:17] <nicomachus> I just want to get my scrobbling from mpd set up. :(
[17:19] <nicomachus> librefm works fine. Lastfm? Noooooooo
[17:19] <ducasse> mpd <3
[17:19] <nicomachus> that's normally my attitude but right now I'm just ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
[17:21] <nicomachus> like, mpdscribble is trying to create 2 journals at /var/cache/mpdscribble/lastfm.journal and then a pid file at /var/run/mpdscribble.pid but it doesn't have permissions for /var/
[17:22] <nicomachus> and then Last.fm is failing at a handshake somewhere. It almost looks like it's trying to POST to turtle.libre.fm but that's the URL for libre.fm. Last.fm should be post.audioscrobbler.com
[17:23] <nicomachus> WAIT
[17:23] <nicomachus> I GOT IT
[17:23] <nicomachus> OMG
[17:23] <TJ-> nicomachus: ironhoof could have been on a host that had LXD or Docker container(s) running in which case process list may well show multiple instances
[17:23] <nicomachus> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
[17:31] <nicomachus> nacc has a patience I can't match
[17:32] <nacc> nicomachus: ironic, because i'm really impatient these days
[17:32] <nicomachus> what does that mean for me? lol
[17:32] <nacc> heh
[17:33] <nicomachus> i just...
[17:33] <nicomachus> "it's an infamous ubuntu error"
[17:33] <nicomachus> what
[17:40] <tgm4883> nacc: I'm just going to start responding to incomplete thoughts with incomplete thoughts
[17:41] <nicomachus> lol
[17:41] <daftykins> :)
[17:42] <TJ-> lfowlr is a write-only bot :)
[17:42] <daftykins> :D
[17:42] <TJ-> Typical young Indian call-centre persona though
[17:43] <TJ-> Bangalore
[17:44] <daftykins> oh? "answers now"?
[17:45] <ducasse> he seems to think he knows a lot, but actually knows very little...
[17:45] <tgm4883> TJ-: yep
[17:47] <daftykins> ducasse: so he's ripping off my entire support style, drat!
[17:47] <daftykins> ;D
[17:47] <tgm4883> The type of person that sees a firetruck and thinks there can only be a fire
[17:47] <nicomachus> 12:45 < lfowlr> nacc: i don't want your "help"
[17:47] <nicomachus> well, that's the end of that, I suppose.
[17:48] <daftykins> how dare you help someone in a support channel!
[17:48] <tgm4883> good
[17:48] <nacc> I guess I do wonder if someone was to have reasonably asked "apport reported an issue, how do I find the report it generated, or the bug it filed"?
[17:48] <TJ-> Sounded to me like the system failed to shutdown cleanly, maybe neeed a hard power-off. That can cause the empty "Your system crashed" popups at first log-in
[17:48] <nacc> is there a straightforward answer to that?
[17:48] <tgm4883> I have zero sympathy for people that refuse to actually read what people are telling them
[17:48] <nacc> TJ-: ah that's a good point
[17:49] <tgm4883> nacc: if apport reports and issue, there's a button for "more info" or something like that I believe
[17:49] <nicomachus> nacc: I don't know if there's a centralized log of those or not. somewhere between dmesg, syslog, and /var/log/*
[17:49] <ducasse> isn't there a 'details' button in those popups?
[17:49] <nacc> tgm4883: right, but presuming they did report and then closed the popup?
[17:49] <TJ-> nacc: originally, apport would redirect to bugs.launchpad.net to show the report, but since that was changed to go to errors.ubuntu.com that is no longer done, because LP doesn't get the report
[17:49] <nicomachus> I think that's the issue. How do you find it again after you close the popup?
[17:49]  * nacc has noted most apport-filed bugs don't get responses when triaged
[17:49] <nacc> (for server)
[17:49] <tgm4883> nacc: well then they could do it next time it pops up
[17:49] <nacc> tgm4883: true
[17:50] <nicomachus> tgm4883: replication can't be the only solution
[17:50] <nacc> tgm4883: but that might end up being a new report (in theory)
[17:50] <tgm4883> nicomachus: why not?
[17:50] <nacc> i'm not sure how smart apport is
[17:50] <tgm4883> nacc: nope, apport is pretty smart
[17:50] <nacc> TJ-: ah that makes sense (the bugs -> errors change)
[17:50] <nacc> tgm4883: oh ok
[17:50] <tgm4883> nacc: errors.ubuntu.com groups them all together
[17:50] <nicomachus> tgm4883: because what if you don't know what caused it? there's no log somewhere that just tracks apport?
[17:50] <TJ-> dupes are detected usually and grouped
[17:51] <tgm4883> nicomachus: you mean like "apport.log"?
[17:51] <nicomachus> oh, yea, that. :D
[17:51] <TJ-> /var/log/apport.log should track
[17:51] <tgm4883> I wonder where a log file called apport.log might be :)
[17:51] <tgm4883> -rw-r----- 1 root adm 0 Oct 17 07:35 /var/log/apport.log
[17:51] <tgm4883> Assuming if you have an error, that populates
[17:52] <nicomachus> that's what I was looking for.
[17:52] <TJ-> tgm4883: I wonder, is it always empty, empty only if reports aren't filed, or contains all crashes even if not reported
[17:52] <tgm4883> TJ-: all of mine are empty
[17:52] <tgm4883> Then again, I don't get those types of errors
[17:53] <nicomachus> I have some from today
[17:53] <nicomachus> http://paste.ubuntu.com/25760722/
[17:53] <nicomachus> never saw a popup for those though.
[17:53] <TJ-> nicomachus: are you on 17.10 ?
[17:53] <nicomachus> TJ-: no. 16.04
[17:54] <TJ-> nicomachus: right, so not due to the 'we don't report pre-release bugs' then
[17:54] <nicomachus> I've been using my laptop for work too much lately to go onto a beta release.
[17:54] <TJ-> looks like at some point you may have checked the Ignore button for those "this executable already crashed 2 times, ignoring"
[17:55] <nicomachus> possible. I was crashing that program left and right all day yesterday.
[18:19] <TJ-> Did foca disappear or has just gone very quiet?
[18:20] <nicomachus> he's a bit slow to respond.
[18:22] <TJ-> I thought my connection had died
[18:23] <daftykins> hehe the most irritating thing about support
[18:25] <TJ-> I may have to go, but I'm suspecting 1 of several possibilities. wifi driver issue (dropping frames - famous in iwlwifi - Intel wifi devices), conflicting entries for both /etc/network/interfaces and NetworkManager, or some other service relied upon has been systemctl disable-d by the user.
[18:26] <daftykins> oh intel, how far you've fallen
[18:27] <nicomachus> :/
[18:28] <TJ-> if it's currently got NM running pastebin the entire /var/log/syslog or better still "journalctl -u NetworkManager.service"
[18:34] <nicomachus> TJ-: looks like a realtek driver for the ethernet
[18:35] <TJ-> or e1000 - don't know which he's using
[18:35] <nicomachus> I've never even seen anything buy iwlwifi for intel
[18:36] <nicomachus> what is e1000e
[18:36] <nacc> nicomachus: that's the ethernet driver
[18:36] <nacc> nicomachus: as opposed to wifi driver
[18:36] <nicomachus> I guess I just don't see that many ethernet related issues these days. It's always the wifi driver
[18:37] <daftykins> :>
[18:38] <TJ-> iwlwifi is the common core for all Intel wifi devices
[18:38] <TJ-> e1000e is the Intel wired gigabit ethernet driver
[18:38] <nicomachus> that's what I have on my embedded wifi device here.
[18:38] <TJ-> iwlmvm usually depends on iwlwifi for most modern chipsets
[18:53] <nicomachus> TJ-: you caught that before my SSH connection caught up. :D
[19:32] <oerheks> :-)
[21:00] <TJ-> Oh no :( Just discovered yet another headache we're going to hit once 17.10 is released, with Wayland compositor as the default. It doesn't/can't support screenshots - not built into the protocol or server/
[21:01] <daftykins> O_O
[21:01] <daftykins> how on earth was that looked over?
[21:02] <TJ-> well you know... gnome devs, wayland devs, systemd, mostly employed by Red Hat. monoculture, monolithic software. "I don't need it so you can't have it"
[21:04] <nacc> TJ-: hrm, i'm running Xwayland and it just took a screenshot with printscreen or the screenshot app
[21:05] <nacc> TJ-: is the compositor you mentioned a different component than Xwayland itself?
[21:06] <TJ-> Xserver will, but pure Wayland doesn't support it
[21:07] <TJ-> I just found out reading commentary by a developer that's created a really neat screenshot capture tool and has no way to support pure Wayland/Weston whatever the implementation is called
[21:09] <TJ-> you've got the Xserver in the loop so it's the same as if Wayland compositor weren't there: see https://wayland.freedesktop.org/xserver.html
[21:11] <nacc> TJ-: hrm, how does oen drop Wayland out of the loop? I am on relatively stock 17.10
[21:11] <nacc> err, drop Xserver out of the loop
[21:12] <TJ-> I've not investigated that :)
[21:12] <nacc> oh
[21:12] <nacc> so not really a problem in ubuntu then
[21:12] <nacc> :)
[21:12] <nacc> (at least for 17.10)?
[21:13] <TJ-> From what I've read though, the default is either Wayland+WaylandX, or Wayland with Xserver as an alternative (rather like we had/have upstart or systemd)
[21:14] <TJ-> I hope not, but I think it'll rear its head as we move on. I did some reading up on what the chances are and discussions by the devs. It seems the way-off future possibility is a newer compositor called way-cool, with 2 components, a root  with clients such as the composer, where a capture tool could plug itself into the pipeline
[21:15] <TJ-> My terminology may be way off but basically the current all-in-one design didn't envisage any support for screen capturing
[21:17] <nacc> interesting
[21:17] <nacc> TJ-: but has an actual Ubuntu user hit that issue?
[21:17] <nacc> TJ-: or is it purely an upstream wayland discussion?
[21:19] <TJ-> No, I was pointing out we'll start to see that kind of issue in the future when users have the option to drop the Xserver part. So it's useful to have in-mind if a user complains they cannot screenshot this could be the reason (we sometimes ask for screeshots and the bot has a factoid on where to post them)
[21:20] <nacc> TJ-: true
[21:20] <TJ-> like we used to ask for pastebinit's and not realise the user was on an older release that didn't install it as part of ubuntu-minimal
[21:20] <nacc> TJ-: I guess my perspective is for 17.10, that's ont going to be possible in "ubuntu"
[21:20] <nacc> the user will have had to done something beyond what is shipped
[21:20] <nacc> and maybe it will be solved by 18.04
[21:21] <TJ-> Oh, and they do - you should know that by now :D
[21:22] <nacc> TJ-: sure, but i'm happy to note it as unsupported :)
[21:46]  * TJ- wipes brow... this is uphill work
[21:47] <nacc> TJ-: i believe linuxlove is an old, now often ignored user
[21:47] <nacc> i don't have the ip logs handy, but it seems familiar
[21:50] <TJ-> it feels that way :)
[23:39] <TJ-> oh gawd, ignoo spamming -devel +1 and . now
[23:40] <daftykins> where are the ops when you need 'em?!
[23:40] <oerheks> iron maiden, never bought a record of that music
[23:40] <oerheks> oh, feel free to report in #ubuntu-ops
[23:41] <daftykins> :)
[23:41] <oerheks> .. wait
[23:41] <oerheks> I love your wordgame, that you need an ops :-D
[23:42] <oerheks> unban daftykins please
[23:42] <daftykins> XD
[23:44]  * TJ- is hiding from linuxlove!
[23:45] <daftykins> Don't fear the Penguin, sir
[23:45] <daftykins> oh that's a user? ;)
[23:47] <Bashing-om> TJ-: deserves more than a cookie .. pass an apple pie :)
[23:48] <TJ-> I've got a freezer still with 2 drawers full of apple pies made last autumn. Trying to eat them up before converting this year's apple crop into more pies
[23:48] <daftykins> time to get brewing some cider :)
[23:48] <TJ-> daftykins: yeah, been trying to help him decide how to dual-install Windows for what seems like 24 hours but is more like 4 hours.
[23:49] <daftykins> sheesh :)
[23:49] <TJ-> going round the houses and back to what I said originally, so I'm staying mum now
[23:49] <Bashing-om> TJ-: Can the apples this year ! .. Can make up pies on-demand :)
[23:51] <TJ-> It's easier to make 200 pies ina  single day and freeze them. Did that 2 days last year and had almost 400 in the freezer
[23:53] <daftykins> O_O
[23:54] <TJ-> yup, that's how my eyes and my tummy look after I've been at them :)
[23:54] <Bashing-om> TJ-: Canning: Some one taught me the easy way .. in the cook stove oven !