[00:15] <Azelphur> whelp, looks like I'm screwed on the sixaxis controller front
[00:15] <Azelphur> talked to the developer and it seems like I broke it, and it's not likely to get fixed till next month earliest, any other ideas?
[00:16] <daftykins> for a gaming controller?
[00:16] <Azelphur> well, for a way to make the controllers I have already work
[00:16] <daftykins> what set do you have to pick from?
[00:16] <Azelphur> would hate to throw £40 down the toilet :p
[00:16] <Azelphur> daftykins: I have GOIGAME PS3 controllers (bluetooth)
[00:17] <Azelphur> I know they physically work because they talk to sixaxis controller on android.
[00:18] <Azelphur> and I'd hazard a guess that they'd work fine with motioninjoy on windows too
[00:18] <Azelphur> but the Linux side seems to have me stumped :P
[00:19] <daftykins> i like cables
[00:19] <daftykins> :)
[00:20] <Azelphur> hehe, cables are annoying when you got 4 controllers and want to sit a decent distance from a 55" tv
[00:21] <daftykins> what's 4 player for the HTPC?
[00:21] <Azelphur> daftykins: every emulator game ever.
[00:21] <daftykins> ah-har
[00:21] <Azelphur> also hedgewars
[00:21] <daftykins> ah yeah i've only ever used a PS2 controller with a USB converter on the PC
[00:21] <daftykins> i have an xbox360 otherwise
[00:22] <daftykins> i have no time for old games ;x
[00:22] <Azelphur> hehe
[00:22] <Azelphur> I might have to do something silly like run windows in a vm and pass the input back to Linux
[00:28] <daftykins> Azelphur: latency++ ?
[00:28] <Azelphur> indeed :(
[00:31] <daftykins> first world problems O_.
[00:31] <Azelphur> yep
[00:56] <Azelphur> Anyone care to drop in and help me with my PS3 controller woes? http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=12481756#post12481756 :P
[01:02] <daftykins> was the dev just stumped then?
[01:03] <Azelphur> pretty much, he just said he doesn't really know and is busy working on other projects atm and that I should ping him in a month or so to see if he can fix it then
[01:06] <daftykins> heh, how odd
[01:10] <Azelphur> indeed, you'd think more people would buy these things
[01:11] <Azelphur> $14 kickass bluetooth controller...why are we not buying all the things and making them work
[01:12] <daftykins> heh
[01:13] <daftykins> i try to avoid bluetooth
[01:13] <Azelphur> I wonder what stops them being plug n play like other things are
[01:13] <daftykins> it's one of those techs that doesn't work in a hurry when you really want it to
[01:13] <Azelphur> the wiimote stuff I used before was pretty simple
[01:13] <Azelphur> xD
[01:13] <daftykins> Sony? :)
[01:13]  * Azelphur shrugs
[01:13] <Azelphur> I don't mind too much in a hurry, but I would like to get it going
[01:14] <daftykins> y'know it's that classic 'i wanna transfer files via BT'
[01:14] <daftykins> hellz no says mr. computer
[01:15] <Azelphur> lol
[08:17] <popey> Morning
[08:21] <diplo> Morning
[08:25] <knightwise> hey diplo popey :)
[08:25] <knightwise> how are you gus
[08:25] <knightwise> guys
[08:33] <popey> GREAT!
[08:35] <diplo> I'm ok thanks, yourself knightwise ?
[08:36] <diplo> Brought my Revo to work today, reinstall with 12.04 and XBMC Frodo I'm thinking
[09:24] <mungbean> does anyone have knowledge/experience of java web framework spring or struts?
[09:25] <AlanBell> mungbean: Alfresco uses spring
[09:26] <mungbean> AlanBell: i need to give a talk where i reference those products, and suggest best of breed etc
[09:26] <mungbean> don't know where to start tbh
[09:26] <brobostigon> good morning everyone,
[09:27] <mungbean> do vmware provide for free? what's their motive?
[09:30] <AlanBell> they want to sell their datacenter products
[09:32] <AlanBell> mungbean: I don't know a great deal about spring, Alfresco is the only thing I know that uses it
[09:34] <brobostigon> any idea, where to look for a radar type sensor, that connects to usb, and will be detected by a nominally standard gnu-linux debian . ?
[09:40] <JamesTait> Good morning all! :-D
[09:41] <brobostigon> morning JamesTait
[09:41] <JamesTait> brobostigon, o/
[09:41] <brobostigon> o/
[09:42] <JamesTait> Don't look now, but, where I am at least, it's very spring-like this morning.
[09:42] <brobostigon> sunny, blue sky.
[09:43] <brobostigon> and looks like it will be all day, according to bbc weather.
[09:43] <JamesTait> Yep. Not blowing a gale. Mild temperature. I didn't even wear a coat for the school run, let alone a hat and gloves.
[09:43] <brobostigon> it is blowing a gale here.
[09:44] <JamesTait> I thought our conservatory was going to take off yesterday.
[09:44] <brobostigon> yes, it was quite breezy.
[10:01] <BigRedS> I'm after an smtp client for use with Mutt that'll queue up mail while offline and go on to send it when it's online again, anyone got any suggestions?
[10:02] <BigRedS> I need to be able to use different servers and auth for different mail, though, so something that can do that (like msmtp can) would be good
[10:18] <popey> anyone got a 12.04 machine with nvidia video card handy/
[10:18] <popey> ?
[10:23] <SuperMatt> nope
[10:23] <SuperMatt> 13.04 all the way baby
[10:23] <popey> nvm, I'll install it here
[10:24] <SuperMatt> all righty
[10:28] <JamesTait> BigRedS, masqmail might do it. I looked at it once, many moons ago, but never tried to install and configure it.
[10:28] <JamesTait> brobostigon, I might have spoken too soon about the gales.
[10:30] <brobostigon> ohwell, :(
[10:47] <ali1234> ubuntu kernel is compiled with amiga partition table support and amiga FFS as a module
[10:47] <ali1234> i didn't expect that
[10:47] <popey> ☺
[10:52] <ali1234> sadly, kpartx doesn't seem to understand anything other than dos partitions
[10:54] <directhex> patches welcome!
[10:55] <directhex> gpt support in kpartx would be smart
[11:01] <davmor2> Morning all
[11:16] <BigRedS> JamesTait: ta!
[11:17] <JamesTait> BigRedS, let me know if it works out, I might finally give it a try on my laptop.
[11:19] <BigRedS> JamesTait: I'll have a poke at it tonight; might need prodding to remind you of my success :)
[11:19] <BigRedS> or failure...
[11:19] <JamesTait> BigRedS, not a problem. :)
[11:40] <ali1234> directhex: kpartx supports GPT already
[11:53] <mungbean> how do i show recently added bookmarks in chrome?
[11:54] <mungbean> meh found it, maybe i added them but they didn't sync :(
[11:54] <popey> are they not in chrome://bookmarks/ ?
[11:54] <popey> oh
[11:54] <popey> heh, I have zero bookmarks in any browser
[11:55] <dwatkins> I tend to write a html file and use that as my homepage
[11:55] <dwatkins> much quicker, doesn't depend on me being online etc.
[11:56] <dwatkins> perhaps I'll include an image to test whether I'm online
[11:57] <davmor2> mungbean: if you are syncing to and from a tablet/phone and desktop you may be surprised where the mobile devices stick them
[12:33] <mungbean> got 2 job offers on the table not sure which to take :S
[12:33] <popey> flip a coin ☺
[12:35] <mungbean> a weighted one?
[12:35] <mungbean> all along i've said i don't want job A (which is what i'm currently doing as a secondment) but rather Job B (some unknown element)
[12:35] <mungbean> but when it comes to it...getting cold feet
[12:36] <popey> they're both within the same org?
[12:39] <Azelphur> flip a coin is actually a good trick, it's a psychology thing, if you're torn between two choices, flip a coin xD
[12:42] <mungbean> yes popey
[12:42] <mungbean> by nature i choose the safe option (i.e. known quantity)
[12:42] <mungbean> but under massive transformation we are losing good people and new tech is being deployed by numpties
[12:43] <mungbean> on the plus side its good tech to work with
[12:44] <mungbean> however the other job B gives me a warm feeling about helping people and maximising use of apps and technology for people
[12:44] <mungbean> quandry :S
[12:48] <BigRedS> Azelphur: the trick isn't to just go on what the result of the coin flip saysm, but to ponder your reaction to it :)
[12:49] <BigRedS> of course, that way you might still never actually decide
[12:49] <Azelphur> BigRedS: indeed
[12:50] <davmor2> mungbean: the question is, is the money the same? if so then the only difference is the way the job makes you feel, I can tell you happier is better than sad but known.
[12:51] <Azelphur> http://pastebin.com/DwWJGcgu why is this patch doing this?
[12:53] <davmor2> Azelphur: knock the -bin off the patch name maybe
[12:54] <BigRedS> There's a guy two desks down reading up on btrfs. I keep hearing "Oh wow, that's awesome" "We really need to be doing this"  etc.
[12:54] <BigRedS> might have to experiment with this...
[12:55] <Azelphur> davmor2: nope still same issue
[12:55] <mungbean> money is the same davmor2
[12:56] <mungbean> my heart says jobB, head says i know how to do jobA. i'm not really a risk taker
[13:01] <bigcalm> Good afternoon peeps :)
[13:01] <bigcalm> davmor2: no, still just 'looking after it' for our neighbour. Neighbour is providing food and vet coverage
[13:02] <davmor2> bigcalm: yeah but they are home now :)
[13:02] <davmor2> bigcalm: hello by the way how is your holiday?
[13:02] <bigcalm> davmor2: hence the ''. It's a bit odd
[13:02] <davmor2> bigcalm: also more importantly how is the new pc
[13:02] <bigcalm> davmor2: hi :) I'm getting used to it
[13:03] <bigcalm> davmor2: hasn't yet been purchased
[13:03] <bigcalm> davmor2: I was able to get a quote from a Dell business sales person. Waiting for my company to place the order
[13:04] <davmor2> bigcalm: man the way you were talking you'd got it
[13:04] <bigcalm> davmor2: for some reason, the quote I was given is less than the website stated
[13:04] <bigcalm> davmor2: ah, no. I just like to be prepared. Will buy a 120ish GB SSD at some point in prep.
[13:06] <Azelphur> Anyone know who I might ask about bluez stuff?
[13:06] <Azelphur> #bluez-users is dead
[13:20] <mungbean> in irrsi, i use alt+num to flick channels. if i have >10 channels, i do alt+0 then alt-arrow to move along - how do i jump to 13 directly?
[13:21] <bigcalm>  /win 13
[13:22] <bigcalm> mungbean: there may be a plug-in to let you map more alt+<key>
[13:23] <mungbean> ok thanks, /win 13 is longer than alt ->
[13:28] <daubers> Afternoon
[13:29] <popey> mungbean: alt+e
[13:29] <popey> the row below 1-0
[13:30] <popey> goes all the way up to alt+o
[13:30] <mungbean> wow great :D
[13:30] <mungbean> thanks
[13:30] <mungbean> irc win today with all my questions
[13:30] <mungbean> (except the job one)
[13:31] <popey> with the job one I'd compile a big spreadsheet with weighted pros and cons
[13:31] <popey> but thats just me
[13:36] <mungbean> thats a methodical approach i tend to agree with. i've been complaining about this job since last year, i think i know what to do
[13:36] <mungbean> i also pray about it, which i know you don't do ;)
[13:42] <popey> hah
[13:48] <solarcloud_3srcn> Go Jonathan !! http://www.indiegogo.com/sonar/x/2125880?c=home
[14:18] <diplo> popey: You about ?
[14:22] <Flex> hi guys, im trying to run a script via a cronjob and am setting the env variables within the script itself
[14:22] <Flex> do i need to source the script itself?
[14:22] <Flex> . /path/to/script/script.sh
[14:22] <Flex> ?
[14:23] <popey> diplo: ya
[14:25] <dwatkins> source a script within itself?
[14:25] <dwatkins> how are you setting variables, and what shell does the script use, Flex?
[14:26] <Flex> dwatkins: bash and export
[14:26] <dwatkins> should be fine then, from what I remember
[14:26] <Flex> to do
[14:27] <Flex> . /path/to/script/script.sh
[14:28] <dwatkins> I mean just setting a variable at the beginning of the script then using, printing it, you shouldn't need to include the script itself as that would be recursive.
[14:29] <dwatkins> Flex: for example: http://hastebin.com/nucacoyaxi.bash
[14:29] <diplo> popey: Sorry my session seems to be broken on other machine
[14:29] <diplo> Just wondering if you're still running Revo with XBMC
[14:30] <diplo> if so, any recommendations before I reinstall, mines been on for 3+ yyears now i think
[14:30] <diplo> :)
[14:30] <Flex> am running xbmc on my revo
[14:30] <diplo> What are you running on it Flex ?
[14:30] <Flex> os?
[14:30] <diplo> Mines still running 9.04, want to upgrade to Frodo and update OS as well
[14:30] <diplo> yeah
[14:31] <Flex> win 7 a) because i use silver light b) the missus cant use linux
[14:31] <diplo> ah, no win7 license so stay with ubuntu i think, justnot sure which wm to go with
[14:31] <dwatkins> fluxbox for teh win! ;)
[14:32] <diplo> heh
[14:32] <popey> diplo: yes, my "behind the telly" box is xbmc on a revo
[14:32] <popey> I think it's xbmcbuntu
[14:33] <diplo> ah I was just checking that out now actually
[14:34] <Flex> diplo: who needs a license ;)
[14:36] <diplo> :)
[14:36] <Flex> dwatkins: not sure if that applies when running from cron though....?
[14:37] <dwatkins> Flex: hmm, you might need to account for other environment variables (e.g. PATH) not being set, but I don't know much more than that
[15:06] <popey> Google Nexus 4 is back "in stock" (ships in 1-2 weeks) https://play.google.com/store/devices/details?id=nexus_4_16gb
[15:06] <davmor2> ohhhhhhh rotate on the nexus 7
[15:13] <Azelphur> I already got mine on my desk
[15:13] <Azelphur> :P
[15:13] <popey> ☺
[15:13] <popey> just ordered one ☺
[15:13] <Azelphur> welcome to the club
[15:14] <Azelphur> popey: rofl, and already my friend is like LOAN ME MONEY SO I CAN BUY NEXUS 4
[15:14] <Azelphur> that happened fast
[15:15] <davmor2> Azelphur: 400% interest see if still wants to borrow it then ;)
[15:15] <Azelphur> haha
[15:15] <Azelphur> he's a good mate of mine and his paycheck comes in tomorrow, so loaned him the money xD
[15:16] <Flex> what are you seeing? ERROR: Server returned error for?
[15:16] <Azelphur> We couldn't complete your purchase because of a technical issue.
[15:16] <Azelphur> Details of the problem below:
[15:16] <Azelphur> Sorry, we were unable to process this request. The order has been automatically cancelled and you will not be charged for the purchase. Please try again later.
[15:17]  * Azelphur facedesks
[15:20] <Azelphur> woo, my friend managed to get one
[15:23] <KungFuPanda> ?
[15:23] <Azelphur> !
[15:25] <KungFuPanda> :), I using network tool scan my port, only 80, 8088 are open. how could I remote connect it ?
[15:25] <KungFuPanda> ssh, remote desktop ?
[15:26] <DJones> !ssh | KungFuPanda
[15:26] <DJones> That should get you started with ssh
[15:26] <KungFuPanda> but my port 22 is closed
[15:27] <KungFuPanda> can I use ssh by port 80 or 8088 ?
[15:27] <dwatkins> I've run ssh on different ports before, so long as server and client agree and the port is open on the firewall etc. yeah
[15:28] <KungFuPanda> if I use port 80, is that will affect my browsing ?
[15:28] <davmor2> KungFuPanda: have you actually install the server for ssh which would open port 22?
[15:28] <KungFuPanda> yes
[15:29] <davmor2> KungFuPanda: are you running a firewall
[15:29] <KungFuPanda> I tried ssh localhost, which success
[15:29] <KungFuPanda> no
[15:29] <KungFuPanda> ufw inactive
[15:29] <KungFuPanda> the port be closed by router, I guess, I got public static ip
[15:29] <DJones> Have you told your router to forward external requests to the machine with ssh running?
[15:30] <KungFuPanda> no
[15:30] <KungFuPanda> I try to avoid doing that, if I can find a solution.
[15:31] <KungFuPanda> can one port 80 provide 2 service ? http and ssh  at the same time ?
[15:31] <DJones> This should help you configure your router to forward whichever port you decide to forward to the machine running ssh http://portforward.com/routers.htm
[15:31] <dwatkins> opening port 80 on your router for something to connect to from an external address is separate from connecting to an external website on port 80
[15:32] <DJones> If you use a non-standard port (ie not port 22) you'll need to configure ssh to listen on that port, the link from lubotu3 should give you details of how to do that
[15:33] <KungFuPanda> thanks all , for you great help, I will try now.
[15:34] <czajkowski> xnox: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Fosdem/2013
[15:59] <dwatkins> http://www.h-online.com/open/news/item/Booting-Linux-using-UEFI-can-brick-Samsung-laptops-1793958.html
[17:13] <MartijnVdS> dwatkins: go go Samsung firmware
[17:27] <davmor2> MartijnVdS: UEFI is a pain in the arse fullstop
[17:27] <MartijnVdS> but microsoft!
[17:28] <davmor2> MartijnVdS: Nope even MS from USB isn't entirely foolproof, from cd/dvd is fine but then so is Ubuntu but more and more devices don't have drives now
[17:29] <MartijnVdS> But Microsoft made UEFI required, right?
[17:31] <davmor2> MartijnVdS: They tried to be clever, in order to speed up the boot process they do a search for secure uefi devices but do it occasionally faster than they give power to the usb ports meaning sometimes your device has no power and UEFI is marching on regardless
[17:32] <davmor2> MartijnVdS: and MS made secureboot a requirement which therefore made UEFI a requirement
[17:34] <davmor2> MartijnVdS: it does however mean that I have no license key sticker as the license key is the machine itself which I can see being an issue if you wanted to install windows 9 on that box :D
[17:35] <MartijnVdS> davmor2: well if Win8 can read it, Win9 would be able to as well, right?
[17:35] <AlanBell> czajkowski: \o/ http://blog.ubuntu-women.org/2013/01/ubuntu-women-full-circle-follow-up-with-laura-czajkowski/
[17:35] <MartijnVdS> and the retail/upgrade versions come with keys
[17:37] <davmor2> MartijnVdS: but if it depends on a different secureboot key you might be stuffed unless you upgrade your hardware :)
[17:38] <MartijnVdS> davmor2: Well.. or you can buy a patch from the manufacturer or MS of course!
[17:38] <MartijnVdS> for £a_lot
[17:39] <davmor2> MartijnVdS: effectively turning your machine into a replaceable device whenever MS upgrade which would make the manufacturers happy
[17:40] <czajkowski> AlanBell: :)
[18:05]  * AlanBell is hanging out on G+ and talking about lenses and dashes and stuff with Jono Bacon and some others
[18:09] <popey> https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=CBeQur7VBDM#!
[18:20] <brobostigon> is it possible, for my mums android tablet, when trying to download xmbc from mirror.ox.ac.uk to intterupt the whole wifi we are connected to?
[18:22] <brobostigon> it seems some what implausable.
[18:22] <brobostigon> but seems to be the only factor.
[18:24] <popey> brobostigon: eh?
[18:25] <brobostigon> popey: the wifi seems to die, as soon as i try and download xmbc from that, it is very weird.
[18:25] <popey> fun
[18:25] <brobostigon> not at all.
[20:32] <solarcloud> popey, Nice question for Jono, Also that nexus 4 link doesn't work in the Isle of Man :-( ... does it still work for you, now ??
[20:38] <popey> yup
[20:39] <AlanBell> http://www.theopensourcerer.com/2013/01/ubuntu-smart-scopes/
[20:44] <popey> tweet/G+ it and I'll retweet etc
[20:52] <MartijnVdS> popey: about that :) Do you have some magic client that puts everything on G+ and twitter at the same time, or do you copy/paste everything you post?
[20:52] <popey> yes
[20:52] <MartijnVdS> ...
[20:52] <popey> \o/ dots
[20:52] <MartijnVdS> Do you copy/paste?
[20:52] <popey> yes
[20:52] <MartijnVdS> So no magic client? :(
[20:53] <popey> I often type stuff in twitter first to fit the 140 chars, then paste elsewhere
[20:53] <popey> and I do the same on PC or phone or tablet
[20:54] <MartijnVdS> popey: I was wondering, because your twitter and G+ feeds are _very_ similar :)
[20:55] <popey> ☺
[21:21] <Azelphur> woooooooo, sixaxis developer fixed the bug for my gasia controllers
[21:21] <Azelphur> let the emulators on htpc commence \o/
[21:41] <BigRedS> I have no audio on 13.04 :( Alsamixers not muted, what else should I be checking?
[21:44] <dutchie> are the speakers plugged in
[21:45] <BigRedS> Ah, no, I've done that before, too. This is a laptop though


[06:49] <nathangrubb> wow fail
[19:51] <bobbo> hey everyone
[20:42] <charles_> hey bobbo
[20:49] <bobbo> charles_: still here?
[20:49] <charles_> yep
[20:50] <bobbo> charles_: is this group still active anymore?
[20:53] <charles_> it's in hibernation now, afaict.  I rejoined a few days ago after an absence, and haven't seen any discussion
[20:53] <bobbo> charles_: cool, I'm trying to get some people behind me to sort of restart the group, seeing how little activity hass been going on with it
[20:54] <charles_> :)
[20:54] <bobbo> asac, javamaniac: ping
[20:55] <asac> ?
[20:55] <bobbo> asac: would you be interested in helping to try and get MOTU-Torrent "resurrected"?
[21:02] <asac> bobbo: how that?
[21:02] <asac> ;)
[21:02] <asac> any good ideas?
[21:06] <bobbo> asac: i've been asking around on teh planet and motu@ and I've managed to get a couple extra people interested
[21:07] <asac> bobbo: what are the features of those people?
[21:08] <bobbo> jdong says he has ideas on how to make members more active and keep the team self sustaining
[21:08] <bobbo> and I was thinking if we maintain package collaboratively in bzr and have regular torrent specific tasks, we should be able to keep interest in the team up
[21:12] <asac> bobbo: where is jdong?
[21:12] <asac> he was MIA last i recall
[21:12] <asac> is he active again?
[21:14] <bobbo> asac: he is busy with something else at the moment but in his email he said he will be active again in September
[21:15] <bobbo> yeah, "I have had to suspend most of my Ubuntu work until school starts up (beginning of September)"
[21:18] <asac> ok
[21:18] <asac> bobbo: problem with using a shared bzr repo is that this means that all maintenance belongs to us
[21:18] <asac> bobbo: good by merging from debian
[21:18] <asac> -> which means a lot more work
[21:20] <bobbo> asac: ah good point
[21:21] <bobbo> i havent really used it before, but I know several people that really rave about it being the next best thing
[21:34] <asac> bobbo: bzr is good, but we would have to maintain it on our own
[21:39] <bobbo> asac: in that case maybe it would be a good idea to maintain packages that will be changed alot (im think deluge for this one) in bzr
[21:51] <asac> bobbo: isnt deluge maintained in debian?


[01:13] <JanC> download of OTA-14 works now
[03:06] <cc__> hi
[03:07] <cc__> Is there any good input for ubuntu phone ?
[03:09] <cc> hello
[03:11] <cc> any good input method for ubuntu phone?i cant bear the systerm input method
[08:52] <luxpir> hey, still can't get the updater to run. by any means. can't find any precedent either.
[08:53] <luxpir> have tried: system-image-cli, deleting wizard-has-run* and rebooting, powering off
[08:54] <luxpir> and provided logs from .cache/upstart/app-legacy-ubu-sys-settings.log: http://paste.ubuntu.com/23595409
[08:57] <luxpir> the update screen basically doesn't appear when clicked, taking the system settings window away with it
[09:16] <luxpir> update: security and privacy settings on the settings screen won't open either. everything else seems to work.
[09:17] <luxpir> thanks for your help last night dobey kenvandine pmcg1 - if you have any more ideas...
[09:17] <luxpir> update: oh, now the About screen won't open from settings either, when it did last night
[09:24] <luxpir> I had also done this in recent weeks: https://askubuntu.com/questions/620740/recommended-way-to-install-regularcli-deb-packages-on-ubuntu-phone#623311 > the bind parts might have messed with things?
[09:24] <luxpir> upgrading my chroot now, just the ubuntu-system-settings bit
[09:43] <luxpir> oh i wonder if upgrades to my vivid chroot affected the root system because of the bind mounts?
[09:44] <luxpir> you can see in the paste logs that qml errors out at times... should i upgrade the chroot's qml packages?
[09:47] <luxpir> I'll check back in this afternoon - thanks for any tips you can think of
[10:18] <jamesstanley> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/ReleaseNotes/OTA-14 this page says OTA-14 is not yet released
[10:19] <jamesstanley> I just noticed the topic of this channel says "phased updated in progress"
[10:19] <jamesstanley> I currently have OTA-13 on my Nexus 4, if I have an update to install is that ok because of the "phased updates" even though OTA-14 is not yet releaed?
[10:25] <sil2100> jamesstanley: phased updates mean that it's good to install
[10:25] <sil2100> jamesstanley: I'll update the OTA-14 release page to include the image numbers in a moment
[10:25] <sil2100> jamesstanley: phased updates generally means: 'the image is released but it's made available to users in phases'
[10:26] <jamesstanley> thanks mate :)
[10:27] <jamesstanley> installing it now
[10:27] <sil2100> Actually the phased percentage reached 100%, so the update is released now ;)
[10:30] <jamesstanley> I like that the animated transitions are faster now
[11:34] <AlanBell> hi, anyone know how to trigger an OTA update from the command line? network indicator isn't working on my phone at the moment and the update list thinks it is offline, but it isn't
[11:34] <AlanBell> I think an OTA update has a decent chance of fixing whatever is broken, but I can't trigger it
[12:01] <jgdx> luxpir, hey, around?
[12:03] <jgdx> AlanBell, $ system-image-cli
[12:03] <luxpir> jgdx: here and afk all day!
[12:31] <jgdx> luxpir, I wonder what's in your /var/log/system-image/client.log ?
[12:31] <jgdx> luxpir, and what are you using your chroot for? :)
[12:33] <jgdx> reason I ask is, if you build uss in your chroot and install it on the phone…
[12:33] <jgdx> (uss = Ubuntu System Settings)
[12:56] <tsglove> Good morning all
[13:03] <jgdx> \o
[13:18] <jamesstanley> the new update is great actually
[13:18] <jamesstanley> I used to have a lockup of ~2s when switching to a different app, that is gone now
[13:19] <jamesstanley> I could tell it was locked up because everything was slightly blurry, as if it's showing a slightly-scaled-up screenshot of the app instead
[13:23] <zzarr> Hello! What have happened to my phone?
[13:24] <zzarr> I installed OTA-14 and everything is moving atleast twice as fast :D
[13:26] <jamesstanley> zzarr: me too :) much better imo
[13:27] <zzarr> yes :D
[13:27] <zzarr> I love it
[13:35] <AlanBell> thanks jgdx, trying that now
[13:42] <AlanBell> thanks jgdx, it worked! indicator-network is still broken though
[13:42] <jgdx> AlanBell, great. Any idea why?
[13:43] <jgdx> or is it just not running?
[13:43] <jgdx> start indicator-network
[13:43] <AlanBell> no idea at the moment
[13:43] <AlanBell> job is already running
[13:43] <AlanBell> so, in the status bar it just says "indicator-network" with a cog icon
[13:44] <AlanBell> nothing below it
[13:44] <AlanBell> and the update manager thinks I am offline (I am not, it connected to wifi just fine)
[13:44] <jgdx> AlanBell, hm, maybe check ~/.cache/upstart/indicator-network.log
[13:44] <jgdx> yes, the indicator provides the API we use in System Updates
[13:45] <AlanBell> indicator-rotation-lock is the same, a placeholder
[13:45] <jgdx> that's not good
[13:46] <AlanBell> I have no file ~/.cache/upstart/indicator-network.log but I have ~/.cache/upstart/indicator-network.log.1.gz
[13:47] <AlanBell> contains 8 lines like this: Debug: Device Added: "/org/freedesktop/NetworkManager/Devices/8" ((null):0, (null))
[13:47] <AlanBell> well 9 lines, starting at zero
[13:48] <jgdx> AlanBell, could you stop indicator-network, and re-start it?
[13:48] <jgdx> hopefully there's some hints in the log after
[13:49] <AlanBell> ok, that created indicator-network.log with the same 9 lines in it
[13:51] <davmor2> AlanBell: what did you do?
[13:53] <AlanBell> davmor2: breaking things is your job really isn't it!
[13:54] <davmor2> AlanBell: that's right and don't you forget it ;) Have you been tinkering with it in rw mode over leaving it in ro mode?
[14:04] <AlanBell> davmor2: nope, ro all the way
[14:05] <jgdx> AlanBell, anything else acting weirdly?
[14:06]  * AlanBell looks around at 2016 in general
[14:06] <AlanBell> nope, other than the broken indicators, the phone is the least wierd thing going on at the moment
[14:10] <AlanBell> ok, after a hard reboot the rotation indicator is now working, but network indicator is still not there
[14:10] <jgdx> AlanBell, anything in /var/crash? ignore _usr_bin_election.crash
[14:10] <AlanBell> nothing at all
[14:15] <jgdx> maybe pete-woods has a theory
[14:17] <pete-woods> jgdx, AlanBell : this is on a vivid based phone, right?
[14:18] <pete-woods> Just want to check, as there was an i-n landing to xenial recently
[14:18] <AlanBell> pete-woods: just updated to OTA14, it was broken on OTA13 since last week, no idea of a cause
[14:19] <AlanBell> figured I would update to OTA14 to see if it would sort itself out
[14:21] <pmcgowan> that sounds like the stale lock file problem
[14:22] <pmcgowan> AlanBell, do you have this file .config/connectivity-service/config.ini.lock
[14:22] <AlanBell> I do indeed
[14:22] <pmcgowan> please to delete it
[14:22] <pmcgowan> and restart
[14:22] <AlanBell> -rw-r--r-- 1 phablet phablet   0 Nov 29 18:59 config.ini.lock
[14:23] <AlanBell> yay, thanks pmcgowan \o/
[14:23] <pmcgowan> great, I hate that bug
[14:29] <mterry> dobey: does this MP make sense these days? (now that UAL does everything, and the click scope really does all apps, not just clicks): https://code.launchpad.net/~mterry/unity-scope-click/allow-legacy/+merge/312383
[14:30] <mterry> Or are we planning to handle apps a different way?
[14:30] <dobey> mterry: i don't think so; on classic systems it will show a whole lot of stuff that won't work
[14:31] <mterry> dobey: I thought UAL was supposed to be able to launch those?  (not very sure on that)
[14:31] <mterry> dobey: if UAL gives you the app info, it should be able to launch it, right?
[14:31] <dobey> mterry: no, legacy apps have to specify in the .desktop file that they work under unity8
[14:31] <dobey> mterry: it doesn't magically run everything under xmir or anything there. the .desktop has to say whether it should
[14:32] <mterry> dobey: I think it does have some magic there...  but regardless.  I think if it is feeding your scope an app it doesn't know how to handle, that's a UAL-side bug, right?  The scope shouldn't try to second guess UAL (in an ideal world)
[14:33] <mterry> It seems that UAL is becoming the one-stop shop for launching
[14:33] <mterry> Rather than merely an information broker
[14:33] <dobey> mterry: well if that's also the case, then the patch is also still irrelevant, because it doesn't change anything
[14:34] <mterry> dobey: it changes filtering some apps that don't report an ubuntu lifecycle
[14:34] <dobey> mterry: but we still have to filter anyway, because we have bits in the scope to be able to hide apps like dialer on tablets without modems and such
[14:35] <dobey> mterry: what new apps show up with that change?
[14:35] <mterry> dobey: ok fine, I'm not saying never do intelligent filtering.  But this filtering (lifecycle) is a UAL-side decision is my point
[14:35] <dobey> which don't support ubuntu lifecycle?
[14:35] <mterry> dobey: I wrote it to try to get firefox to show up (but a separate UAL bug is stopping it there)
[14:36] <mterry> UAL apparently knows enough now to try to launch such legacy apps in xmir I believe
[14:37] <mterry> dobey: also note the pre-req I filed earlier -- the scope is ftbfs right now due to typical gmock stuff
[14:38] <dobey> mterry: but gtk+ has a mir back-end, so most gtk+ apps don't technically need xmir, but they don't say they don't have X-Ubuntu-Touch=true in their .desktop files, so there is a lot of weirdness there
[14:39] <dobey> as for firefox, the launching of snaps from the snap is supposed to be fixed i think, so not sure why we wouldn't just stick firefox in its own snap at this point really
[14:39] <mterry> dobey: this is more of a tedg question I guess, whether UAL proposes to hide that weirdness from upper layers, but I thought that that was a promise it is trying to make
[14:39] <mterry> dobey: (A) I don't think that snap launching is fixed yet and (B) we want firefox to be a snap, but we want upstream to be controlling that, not us
[14:42] <luxpir> jgdx: thanks, I'll check there. chroot is so I can run taskwarrior, lynx and potentially mutt (although I have no space for the mailboxes at present) - not following your USS built in chroot + installed on phone point. To do with the mount --bind options I mentioned?
[14:44] <jgdx> luxpir, I don't think the mounts matter for this issue. Could you remove the QML cache for system settings and try again? rm -r .cache/QML/Apps/ubuntu-system-settings/
[14:48] <tedg> dobey: It depends on which interfaces their snap asks for nothing about their desktop file there. If the firefox snap asks for unity8, it gets Mir, if it asks for Unity7 it gets X11.
[14:49] <tedg> mterry: I think that snap launching works now, there are a couple of apps that don't work for me, but I think it's their fault now.
[14:49] <dobey> tedg: mterry is talking about having firefox as a legacy app, not a snap
[14:49] <luxpir> jgdx: I do have the client.log you requested earlier if it helps - will try the qml cache
[14:49] <tedg> mterry: If you know of one, I'd like to know about it.
[14:49] <tedg> dobey: Oh
[14:50] <tedg> dobey: We don't need to filter on supporting the lifecycle anymore I think.
[14:50] <tedg> dobey: I think we can just show all the legacy apps, but that won't be for the U8 snap.
[14:50] <tedg> dobey: It would only be for a deb based U8.
[14:50] <luxpir> jgdx: what's that, rm -rf * ?
[14:50] <jgdx> luxpir, yeah, could you pastebin it?
[14:50] <dobey> tedg: well it would show whatever legacy apps are included in the u8 snap
[14:51] <dobey> not sure what's there or not there
[14:51] <jgdx> luxpir, rm -r is recursive remove, note I did not ask you to do rm -rf * :)
[14:51] <dobey> but mterry is suggesting we would ship firefox in there until mozilla build their own snaps
[14:51] <luxpir> jgdx: I kid, thanks :) - oOOOOh that's fixed it
[14:52] <luxpir> jgdx: OK, what TF was that all about then... cache files for sys settings?
[14:52] <jgdx> okay, sounds like you updated your system or something---such that uss was installed as a deb?
[14:52] <jgdx> if uss is installed as a deb, the cache won't be deleted and you'll see random failures
[14:52] <luxpir> not to my knowledge, unless the mount --binding did something when updating the chroot
[14:54] <luxpir> (will post a followup to my request to the launchpad list) - whoever you are, jgdx, you deserve a large golden medal
[14:55] <jgdx> luxpir, i work for canonical and on the system settings app, so no medal needed
[14:57] <luxpir> that might explain things. still think a medal would be nice. much appreciated. when installing the chroot, I also set up tweakgeek and ut tweak tool... didn't do anything drastic there tho afaik. no idea why that occurred. hopefully this update will 'take back control' of the OTAs/updates?
[15:00] <tedg> dobey: Nothing is there currently except system settings.
[15:00] <jgdx> luxpir, yeah, it should. But just make sure your changes to the phone os are minor. I.e. install chroot, but don't do upgrade outside the chroot
[15:00] <tedg> I'd not like to ship Firefox in the snap. That just seems silly. Use the webbrowser-app, it's already snapped.
[15:01] <tedg> Someone should get mterry to write  deb2snap tool to make this quick and easy so we'd have a firefox snap.
[15:02] <mterry> `:)
[15:02] <luxpir> jgdx: roger that. thx again.
[15:02] <dobey> or use chromium ;)
[15:02] <mterry> tedg: I do intend to switch to webbrowser-app now, there was a miscommunication and it was left off the list of snaps we wanted to install
[15:02] <dobey> oh i guess it's not snapped either
[15:02] <mterry> dobey: chrome is I believe
[15:03] <dobey> snap find chrom returns "champ"
[15:03] <dobey> so if it is, snap find is awful :)
[15:03] <mterry> dobey: it's edge only, I think it's called chrome-test or something silly
[15:03] <mterry> dobey: snap find is awful yes
[15:03] <dobey> oh
[15:07] <sil2100> Yeah, it's completely useless most of the time I noticed
[15:30] <matv1> hi all i am trying to  determine if there is any way in which I can force a user-agent with a browser session it the ut browser
[15:31] <matv1> i am trying to connect to my companies office365 online(arghh the horror) website
[15:32] <matv1> but it defaults to some really basic non-touch page
[15:33] <matv1> it seems to be related to the user agent, which needs x11 as displayserver on linux apparently
[15:33] <matv1> is this correct and if so, how do I do this in our ut browser?
[15:33] <mterry> tedg: ugh right snapd 2.17 isn't in xenial-updates yet, so the apps don't auto-connect to ubuntu-platform.  That explains some of my app launch failing...
[15:34] <mterry> Let me try the proposed snap
[15:35] <pmcgowan> alex-abreu, may know ^
[15:39] <mterry> matv1: I don't think there's an in-browser way to update the user agent
[15:39] <mterry> matv1: but webapps can do so
[15:39] <alex-abreu> pmcgowan, matv1 there are no settings for this afaik, you can only do it by updating the list of system installed overrides
[15:40] <alex-abreu> matv1, you have to ssh to the device and update the list in /usr/lib/armhf/qt5/qml/Ubuntu/Web/ua-overrides-mobile.js
[15:40] <pmcgowan> which I recall is just a javascript file on the device
[15:40] <pmcgowan> aha
[15:41] <matv1> alex-abreu tha is indeed usefull info. I will try that
[15:43] <matv1> alex-abreu  could you  possibly point to the basics of changing the user-agent when building a webapp?
[15:44] <matv1> i have built qml apps but never webapps
[15:44] <matv1> or is that just inline js ?
[15:44] <alex-abreu> matv1, sure this is just a command line option for those ... very simple --user-agent-string=''
[15:45] <matv1> alex-abreu awsum that sounds foolproof :)
[15:46] <alex-abreu> matv1, yes easy enough :)
[15:47]  * matv1 cant believe he is contemplating a webapp for ms office 365
[16:25] <dobey> mterry: looks like your gmock branch has a consistent test failure on all archs and on zesty and xenial
[16:51] <pareidolia> Can anyone tell me where updates are downloaded to? My download of OTA 14 is completely stuck
[16:51] <pareidolia> I've got SSH, want to kick it loose
[16:52] <dobey> pareidolia: you can run "sudo system-image-cli -vvvv" to run the update from ssh, and the -vvvv should give fairly verbose output
[16:53] <pareidolia> dobey: Awesome! Apparently it was done already
[16:53] <pareidolia> dobey: It just booted straight into recovery
[16:54] <pareidolia> This is like christmas already :)
[16:54] <pareidolia> I hope I can switch off screen wakeup notification now
[16:55] <dobey> cool
[16:57] <pareidolia> Task switcher with icons is great
[16:58] <pareidolia> I always look at icons, been missing that since android took it away
[17:02] <pareidolia> Still no setting to get a non-mobile user agent in the browser tho
[17:06] <dobey> what device?
[17:07] <pareidolia> Meizu Pro 5 / Turbo
[17:07] <dobey> though i've noticed lots of sites also have turned into sites designed primarily for mobile, regardless of what your user agent is
[17:08] <pareidolia> I have no problem with responsive scaling
[17:08] <dobey> no i don't mean they are scaling
[17:08] <pareidolia> But I use a couple which force a redirect to a wap-era style m.domain.com
[17:08] <pareidolia> And having the WAP experience on a premium device like this sucks
[17:08] <dobey> i mean on my 24" 4K monitor in chromium i get a huge site that looks like a phone app
[17:09] <pareidolia> Example?
[17:09] <dobey> eh, it's not a WAP experience, it's just that some sites do m.foo instead of responsive layout
[17:09] <dobey> like twitter
[17:10] <dobey> the m site isn't WAP-ish (or at least, it shouldn't be)
[17:10] <dobey> i thought that was supposed to be fixed now in the ubuntu browser anyway
[17:11] <pareidolia> I meant that as rhetorical hyperbole
[17:11] <pareidolia> Twitter is the worst
[17:11] <pareidolia> Why can't I have the normal twitter on this powerhouse of a phone
[17:11] <dobey> maybe it's not though :-/
[17:11] <dobey> yeah i don't know what that means
[17:11] <pareidolia> exaggeration for humorous effect
[17:12] <pareidolia> Damn. Turning music volume down still kills my ringtone
[17:12] <pareidolia> I've been missing a whole lot of calls llately lol
[17:23] <pareidolia> Is there a way to scale the gui elements up when I am running a desktop app with libertine?
[17:23] <pareidolia> XTerm looks absolutely tiny
[17:34] <mterry> tedg: you might want to look at running latest silo snap with connected snaps (or snapd 2.17).  I get *some* successful launches (like gallery) but even then, there are two windows -- one just black and one real
[17:35] <tedg> mterry: Yes, that's because they're unity7 apps, so we're starting Xmir for them.
[17:35] <tedg> mterry: We should probably filter the MIR envvars to try to get them to be full X.
[17:35] <mterry> Oh, you put snapd 2.18 in silo, cool
[17:35] <tedg> Yeah, snapd 2.18+unity8 interface.
[17:36] <mterry> let me try with snapd 2.18
[17:36] <tedg> mterry: Okay, heading out for lunch right now, will be delayed in responding :-)
[17:36] <mterry> tedg: you make it sound like the black window is expected and desired -- surely that's a bug right?
[17:36] <mterry> tedg: k
[17:40] <dobey> mterry: i thik it's expected, but obviously not desired (as xmir shouldn't be started for unity8 apps)
[17:41] <dobey> mterry: ie, xmir is being started, but then the app is being run on mir itself; xmir shouldn't be started there, but that's what the "unity8" plug is for, is my understanding
[17:41] <mterry> dobey: well they are also unity7 apps and can be launched either way
[17:42] <mterry> presumably in unity7 mode, we should avoid the dual window
[17:43] <dobey> mterry: yes, the "dual window" issue is a bug
[17:44] <dobey> really i don't think we should be using the interface as the means to determine what display backend should be used
[17:44] <dobey> there is just no good reason for those apps to be running under xmir under unity8
[17:54] <mterry> pmcgowan: should we be using ubuntucoredev or canonical as the owning account for our snaps?  We currently have a mix (calculator and clock are ubuntucoredev, others are now canonical)
[17:54] <pmcgowan> mterry, oy no idea
[17:54] <pmcgowan> probably canonical
[17:54] <pmcgowan> oh wait
[17:55] <pmcgowan> mterry, no thats right since calculator and clock are community writtten
[17:55] <mterry> pmcgowan: right but so are lots of the other apps that are currently canonical (like file manager, terminal -- right?)
[17:55] <mterry> calendar
[17:55] <pmcgowan> mterry, we have sortof taken those over
[17:55] <mterry> k
[17:56]  * mterry can't keep track
[17:56] <pmcgowan> yeah
[17:56] <mterry> well then we got the snaps right!  :)
[17:56] <dobey> really they should be "ubuntu"
[17:57] <dobey> the whole "ubuntucoredev" thing is weird
[17:57] <dobey> because they weren't written by ~ubuntu-core-dev either
[17:57] <mterry> oy ubuntu-app-platform isn't automatically installed when you install a snap that needs it
[17:58]  * mterry adds that to unity8-snap-install
[17:59] <dobey> seems like to me that "canonical" should really be for something like partner repo versus "ubuntu" which is the open archive.
[17:59] <dobey> but alas
[18:17] <mterry> Partner repo doesn't make sense in snap world, but I get ya
[18:18] <dobey> right, wasn't trying to suggest it does; just using it as an example of separate "maybe proprietary stuff here" archive
[18:19] <mterry> tedg: snapd 2.18 didn't autoconnect platform to apps for me...  But after manually connecting them, I get an error like this for calculator: Dec 08 13:10:31 drumbo audit[12459]: AVC apparmor="DENIED" operation="connect" profile="snap.ubuntu-calculator-app.ubuntu-calculator-app" name="/run/user/1002/snap.unity8-session/mir_socket" pid=12459 comm="qmlscene"
[18:19] <mterry> requested_mask="wr" denied_mask="wr" fsuid=1002 ouid=1002
[18:20] <mterry> tedg: so looks like our unity8 interface is not complete maybe (or calculator isn't setting it up right)
[18:20] <dobey> mterry: but on the other hand, some of it does make sense. do we expect adobe will ship a snap of the flash plug-in for firefox/chromium/whatever to use?
[18:20] <dobey> (also begs the question of how we will handle general plug-in type stuff in a snaps world)
[18:24] <tsglove> Hey guys, n00b question on Ubuntu Touch... I want to flash one of my phones to run the latest version (Nexus 6P).    Can I run sms via Signal?  What about Telegram and Whatsapp?   Those are the main apps I would miss
[18:24] <dobey> mterry: hmm, after installing and connecting the platform snap, i still get the "you need to connect the platform package with your app" error in the log
[18:25] <dobey> tsglove: telegram is available, whatsapp is not. there's currently no way to change how SMS are handled on the application level; also there isn't a port for the 6P i don't think
[18:26] <tsglove> dobey, ok... thank you!   Is there a non-Signal app for SMS?
[18:27] <dobey> tsglove: there is the system provided messaging app that does SMS
[18:27] <tsglove> dobey, awesome.  Thank you.  I think I'm going to give it a go!  =)
[18:27] <mterry> dobey: I dunno, I didn't get that anymore after connecting, and graduated to the apparmor error
[18:27] <mterry> dobey: filed https://code.launchpad.net/~mterry/unity8-desktop-session/connect-platform/+merge/312855 to do the connecting for us using our script
[18:28] <dobey> mterry: ah, no idea. this is on a classic vm
[18:28] <mterry> I'm on classic too
[18:28] <dobey> mterry: but you're running the unity8 snap right?
[18:28] <mterry> yeah
[18:28] <dobey> yeah, this is just xenial+overlay in a vm
[18:29] <dobey> not sure if there is a difference there that matters for the platform bit, but eh. just sharing what i'm seeing :)
[18:45] <HendriXXX> Anyone experiencing mobile connection drops with nexus4? After updating ota14 it just got worse. :(
[19:54] <tedg> mterry: So I consider the XMir window a bug, but a bug in the app. Basically they're asking for it and then not using it. I think we can make it easier for them to detect that case, but fundamentally, if they lie to use we can't defend against that.
[19:54] <tedg> mterry: Is the calculator in devmode?
[19:55] <tedg> mterry: I don't know about 2.18 autoconnecting, I was really just focusing on getting it so that unity8 gets listed in "snap intefaces"
[19:55] <tedg> interfaces
[19:55] <mterry> tedg: no
[19:55] <mterry> (calc not in devmode)
[19:55] <dobey> mterry: for your gmock branch you changed the ordering of arguments in an ASSERT_GT; either need to change the ordering back or change it to ASSERT_LT
[19:56] <tedg> mterry: Hmm, yeah, that must be a bug in the interface :-(
[19:56] <mterry> dobey: guh!  that explains the failure, thanks.  I had tried to do some ordering cleanup as I went, but guess I wasn't very careful.  Will fix
[19:56] <dobey> tedg: i don't think the app is lying. it's not
[19:59] <mterry> tedg: does that mean we have to fix snapd again?  :(
[20:03] <tedg> mterry: Well, I mean I need to fix my branch, I'm not sure that's "fixing snapd" but I'll work on it.
[20:09] <mterry> tedg: I was just curious if that meant that we need like snapd 2.20 for it to work right or if it's a fix in a project that's more nimble
[20:14] <mterry> I didn't know if unity8 interface definition lives in snapd or not -- I'm guessing it could live elsewhere since we want those to be user-generatable
[20:18] <dobey> i think interfaces have to be defined in snapd
[20:47] <mterry> ChrisTownsend: can you look at https://code.launchpad.net/~mterry/unity8-desktop-session/connect-platform/+merge/312855 sometime?  I'd like to land that to make running snaps in u8 easier
[20:48] <ChrisTownsend> mterry: ok, sure
[20:49] <ChrisTownsend> mterry: I trust you've tested this?  I don't have a machine available at the moment to test this out.
[20:49] <mterry> ChrisTownsend: I did yeah
[20:50] <ChrisTownsend> mterry: Ok, thought so:)  Next question, why is the webbrowser snap treated differently?
[20:50] <mterry> ChrisTownsend: because it doesn't yet use the ubuntu-app-platform snap
[20:51] <mterry> ChrisTownsend: so don't want to try to connect it yet
[20:51] <ChrisTownsend> mterry: Ok, makes sense.
[20:51] <ChrisTownsend> mterry: I'll approve since I trust you:)
[20:51] <mterry> I'll test again once silo builds it
[20:52] <mterry> for double sanity
[20:52] <ChrisTownsend> mterry: ack
[20:52] <mterry> ChrisTownsend: any objections to a silo with just this or do you know of anything else that should get thrown in?
[20:53] <ChrisTownsend> mterry: That one should be fine.  We release unity8-desktop-session like most other packages.
[20:53] <ChrisTownsend> mterry: There are only two other MP's, one of which is yours.
[20:53] <ChrisTownsend> mterry: https://code.launchpad.net/unity8-desktop-session/+activereviews
[20:54] <ChrisTownsend> mterry: And I don't know what nick is doing with that other one.
[20:54] <mterry> My other branch shouldn't land yet.  OK, just this one
[20:56] <tedg> mterry: So the interface is in snapd, but my package is not upstream yet. Just a branch. So we can be more agile before it lands.
[21:44] <mterry> tedg: maybe the unity8/mir_socket interface issue is related to the fact that "snap interfaces" doesn't list unity8 on the left side of the list for me
[21:44] <mterry> I have 2129's version of snapd
[21:50] <dobey> mterry: did it restart after installing it?
[21:50] <mterry> I had rebooted yeah
[21:50] <tedg> mterry: Yeah, we need to add it to the unity8 snap, but considering it is in devmode it should be fine.
[21:50] <dobey> hmm
[21:50] <dobey> ah yeah
[21:50] <tedg> mterry: I guess perhaps we need to connect it to get the apparmor profile loaded though.
[21:55] <mterry> tedg: ah yeah in our snapcraft.yaml, we need to expose the unity8 slot at a minimum I guess.  And then connect it to each app.  :-/
[21:56] <tedg> mterry: I think I set it to autoconnect
[21:56] <mterry> But still needs to have a slot, which we haven't exposed yet
[21:56] <tedg> Yeah, trying to get a recent snap in the store now.
[21:56] <tedg> Can work on improving it next :-)
[21:56] <mterry> :)
[21:57] <tedg> This is harder than it should be :-/
[21:57] <mterry> New frontier!
[21:57] <mterry> No cowpaths yet
[21:59] <dobey> but lots of dysentery
[22:03] <dobey> mterry: i hope jibel won't hate me, but i'm going to land that gmock fix without QA, since it's a tests-only build time change and fixes the FTBFS in zesty.


[17:14] <pleia2> escalated the help.ubuntu.com/community login issues to the CC, been over a year since I submitted the ticket with IS
[17:14] <pleia2> I was told it was escalated in february, but still no response
[19:29] <pmatulis> pleia2: ✔
[19:29] <pleia2> o/ pmatulis
[20:10] <pleia2> ok, so IS is looking for a nickname solution for Ubuntu SSO for something else, so I'm now on a Cc: with some folks who are working on that "in the next few months"
[20:11]  * pleia2 fingers crossed
[22:25] <ahoneybun> nickname?


[03:02] <waraw> I have ub9.04 on my system now but was going to do a fresh install from dvd.  For some reason it refuses to boot.  However it does recognize the disk and offers to run the ubuntustudio install for me from there; will this work properly?
[03:05] <waraw> refuses to boot from the dvd, that is.
[03:18] <holstein> waraw: what are you trying to install?
[03:18] <holstein> a lucid daily?
[03:19] <waraw> nope.  wanted to do a fresh install of koala.  burned the iso.
[03:19] <holstein> i would suggest trying a lucid daily
[03:19] <holstein> its beta
[03:20] <holstein> and weeks from final status
[03:20] <holstein> and it will be supported for 5 years
[03:20] <holstein> maybe that will clear up for .iso issue as well
[03:21] <waraw> well I went ahead and proceded with the distrib upgrade; it is applying the changes now.  so hopefully it will boot/blossom into a proper u.s. install
[03:24] <waraw> am still a newbie so forgive me if i'm not up to tackling dalies yet
[03:24] <holstein> np
[03:24] <holstein> good luch
[03:24] <holstein> luck*
[03:24] <waraw> thanks!
[09:54] <valkyr> How do I sort 2 packages that are broken. Update manager says they're trying to overwrite files provided by the packages they're meant to be upgrading.  I'm going round in circles now not finding any way to remove them (because that would cause a huge dependent package to be removed too which I certainly don't want), or otherwise force installation...
[09:57] <astraljava> valkyr: Which packages are these, and what version of *buntu [Studio] are you using?
[09:59] <valkyr> audacious-plugins + audacious-plugins-extra on Karmic. They're from a 3rd party resository which updated a shed-load of other packages fine
[10:02] <astraljava> valkyr: Without having a look at these properly, I'd say the packages are broken. Can you do an update on CLI, and pastebin the results?
[10:02] <valkyr> is there any way to remove a package without remove any dependencies? It says ubuntustudio-audio will be removed if I remove them, which is a massive package that I need
[10:05] <astraljava> valkyr: Only the meta-package will get removed, and it can be re-installed afterwards by all means.
[10:05] <valkyr> The strange thing is though - it says that package will be removed even when I force to keep the original version
[10:06] <valkyr> of the audacious packages
[10:07] <valkyr> ahh. I was wondering about that. I guess I can remove it no problem then.
[10:08] <valkyr> Sorted. Removed and then installed the new version no problem.
[10:09] <astraljava> valkyr: Glad you got it fixed.
[10:11] <valkyr> Yeah. I think I'll report it to the repository maintainer
[10:12] <astraljava> valkyr: I'm sure that would be appreciated.
[10:12] <valkyr> It's a shame to have 1 rogue package spoiling an otherwise flawless collection :)
[10:14] <astraljava> Happens to the best of 'em. :D
[18:45] <joejc> whats the best way to record an entire band (vocals guitar bass and drums)?
[19:13] <_dreamy> does anyone knows how i can find an equalizer for the whole system ?
[19:13] <_dreamy> i found something on synaptics but im not shure what it was
[19:13] <_dreamy> it was LDSPA something..
[19:14] <valkyr> are you using JACK?
[19:15] <_dreamy> sometimes i use.. i got qjackctl
[19:15] <_dreamy> but i dont know if my mp3 player uses it
[19:15] <_dreamy> i use jack for my usb micro
[19:16] <_dreamy> valkyr: id be glad with anything that could just equalize...
[19:16] <_dreamy> specialy my mp3
[19:18] <valkyr> well there's jackEQ
[19:19] <valkyr> find an mp3 player with jack support (most should have) and you're set
[19:19] <_dreamy> oh i get it.. i will only equalize app using jack..
[19:20] <valkyr> well it's best using JACK because you can route the signal easily from one app to another
[19:20] <valkyr> load jackEQ + mp3 then connect mp3 to jackEQ and jackEQ to the main output
[19:20] <valkyr> with qjackctl
[19:21] <_dreamy> valkyr: ive been whaching those names for ages.. i noticed jack and alsa.. and oss i dont know mutch about those.. id love so mutch to  know if maybe one of those will bring me superior quality
[19:22] <_dreamy> it seems like theres an option to use on or another..
[19:22] <Brazucka> Hi there!
[19:23] <_dreamy> for example, whould i start using jack to play mp3.. for the reazon that it could bring me more quality ?
[19:23] <Brazucka> Does anyone knows how to setup a Trust TB 4200 tablet on Ubuntu Studio?
[19:23] <valkyr> if you mean actual sound quality.... I doubt it. I can almost guarantee they'll all sound exactly the same - it's just the way they work and what they work with that's different
[19:27] <_dreamy> valkyr: id like to ask this too... do u think that linux has superiour sound quality... generaly.. maybe for musicans?
[19:28] <_dreamy> im very glad with the way my mp3 sound, i got nothing to complain, specialy comparing with windows , but i just thought i could ask
[19:29] <_dreamy> * musicians
[19:30] <_dreamy> maybe its better or has good has the macs
[19:30] <valkyr> again, no... sound quality is down to your sound card mostly, and it'll sound almost identical on whatever platform you run it on, unless you happen to find an unusually badly implemented driver or something
[19:30] <_dreamy> ok
[19:31] <_dreamy> that was nice info ;)
[19:34] <_dreamy> ive been wondering for ages .. what the amount of Hz  do .. :S
[19:35] <_dreamy> i always choose the higher number
[19:37] <valkyr> that's the number of "snapshots" per second. If you record at 44.1khz, then the recorder checks the signal 44,100 times a second and stores what it is.
[19:38] <_dreamy> k
[19:38] <valkyr> so it's kinda like like frame-rate on video
[19:40] <valkyr> also, it happens to relate to the highest frequency (pitch) that can be stored... which is the record Hz divided by 2
[19:40] <_dreamy> am i ok with the Highes number ? it what i felt like choosing
[19:41] <valkyr> so recording at 44,100hz you can recording sounds up to 22,050hz
[19:41] <_dreamy> interesting
[19:41] <valkyr> which is a bit above what most people's ears go up to :)
[19:42] <_dreamy> the last i got "higher" its 1920000
[19:42] <_dreamy> 192000
[19:43] <valkyr> if you can record higher then there's no reason not to
[19:43] <_dreamy> k i understand it..
[19:43] <valkyr> it'll take up about 5 times the disk space though
[19:43] <_dreamy> interesting
[20:07] <_dreamy> valkyr: ty for mentionig about jackeq it looks awesome, do u think it could equalize or "pre equalize"  the sound coming form my usb micro ?
[20:20] <valkyr> from a recording input?
[20:21] <_dreamy> i think so , its a usb micro
[20:22] <_dreamy> connectable to jack
[20:23] <valkyr> I don't know what a usb micro is, but you should be able to route inputs through JACKeq then out again
[20:23] <valkyr> I've not really tried that yet though.
[20:24] <_dreamy> ok, my usb micro is a samson c01u, its a studio recoding podacasting micro.. that connect to the USB port instead of the sound card input
[20:26] <valkyr> should be possible. does it show up in the audio tab in qjackctl?
[20:26] <valkyr> in the connections
[20:27] <_dreamy> yes indeed, and it can do realtime playblack ... instantly without any other software
[20:28] <_dreamy> i just have to press play to start the jack macnine
[20:28] <_dreamy> i mean the jack audio connection kit
[20:29] <valkyr> well just connect the outputs/inputs through jackEQ
[20:29] <_dreamy> ok ill try
[20:29] <valkyr> unless you mean to use that at the same time as your sound card, if you have a normal sound card too....
[20:29] <valkyr> then I'm not sure
[20:30] <_dreamy> ok


[03:17] <lilstevie> cnd: when you are about http://androidroot.mobi/2012/05/27/introducing-wheelie-nvflash-for-asus-transformer-tf101-b70/
[14:16] <dandrader> my status: working on the logic that delivers gestures to nux areas.
[14:22] <bregma> does anyone have any last-minute bits to add to utouch-geis?  I'm thinking of doing a point release soon
[14:23] <Satoris> How about ponies?
[14:24] <dandrader> not me
[14:32] <bregma> Satoris, utouch-geis already has ponies, rainbow unicorn flying ponies
[14:32] <Satoris> Oh, ok. Nothing more to add, then.
[17:25] <cnd> dandrader|lunch, bregma: I'm in lexington at a sprint
[17:25] <cnd> my latency may be rather high
[17:25] <cnd> lilstevie, ^^
[17:26] <cnd> lilstevie, cool stuff :)


[05:50] <Kilos> morning all
[05:51] <Kilos> Maaz, seen magespawn
[05:51] <Maaz> Kilos: magespawn was last seen 13 hours, 57 minutes and 15 seconds ago in #ubuntu-za on freenode [2013-08-07 17:54:00 SAST], and has been offline on freenode since 2013-08-08 04:01:15 SAST
[06:09] <Squirm> morning
[06:09] <Kilos> hi Squirm
[06:26] <Kilos> hi mazal
[07:08] <magespawn> good morning all
[07:14] <Kilos> lo magespawn you came back
[07:14] <Kilos> what crashed
[07:18] <magespawn> internet
[07:18] <Kilos> ai!
[07:19] <magespawn> one of those things
[07:19] <magespawn> can you remember the site where i downloaded those 3g things that you could not get?
[07:20] <magespawn> i cannot remember the file names
[07:21] <magespawn> and i have a few files in my downloads folder
[07:29] <inetpro> good mornings
[07:30] <ThatGraemeGuy> morning all
[07:37] <magespawn> hi inetpro ThatGraemeGuy
[08:05] <ThatGraemeGuy> whoa! slow it down a little, things are moving way too fast this morning :D
[08:11] <magespawn> hey it's friday
[08:28] <ThatGraemeGuy> even more reason to not be working too hard ;-)
[08:31] <magespawn> indeed
[08:33] <magespawn> just put together a pc, and the power supply is faulty out of the box
[08:35] <magespawn> that stuff is only supposed to happen on a monday
[08:44] <psyatw> hello magespawn
[08:44] <psyatw> hi ThatGraemeGuy
[08:44] <psyatw> hahaha
[08:46] <magespawn> hi psyatw
[08:56] <magespawn> look like Kilos is calling in sick today
[09:02] <Kilos> sigh
[09:02] <Kilos> hi ThatGraemeGuy
[09:02] <ThatGraemeGuy> 'ello
[09:04] <Kilos> magespawn, you busy?
[09:08] <magespawn> hey Kilos
[09:09] <magespawn> sort of? what  is the problem?
[09:09] <Kilos> struggling with modem. pc cant even see my old one anymore
[09:10] <Kilos> dunno if a modem can corrupt the os
[09:11] <magespawn> no it shouldn't
[09:11] <magespawn> how are you online now?
[09:11] <Kilos> it started that showing connected but wasnt again. im using sakis
[09:13] <magespawn> that sounds more like a faulty modem than anything, have you tried them on your win machine
[09:13] <magespawn> ?
[09:13] <Kilos> ya it works there
[09:13] <Kilos> when you get a break dropbox that stuff for me please
[09:14] <magespawn> can you remember the site? i cannot remember the file names
[09:14] <Kilos> oh my lemme look
[09:15] <magespawn> i have the files, but there is a lot in my downloads folder at the moment, do not wwant to give you the wrong files
[09:16] <Kilos> ai! ive reinstalled so that link is gone. lemme try find it again
[09:16] <Kilos> just remember it was an ugly dark site
[09:16] <magespawn> no worries i have found it i think
[09:17] <Kilos> lol
[09:17] <Kilos> 3 of them?
[09:17] <psyatw> hi Kilos
[09:17] <Kilos> hi psyatw
[09:17] <Kilos> or 2? i forget
[09:17] <Kilos> one must be a flash file
[09:19] <Kilos> finding stuff gets really heavy at times
[09:20] <Kilos> thats why i end up with an overloaded desktop always
[09:21] <magespawn> yup i have them will upload in a sec
[09:22] <Kilos> ty
[09:22] <Kilos> sorry to bug you
[09:25] <ThatGraemeGuy> Kilos: is it a usb modem?
[09:25] <Kilos> yeah
[09:25] <Kilos> goes for days then crashes everything
[09:25] <ThatGraemeGuy> 'lsusb' in a terminal
[09:26] <ThatGraemeGuy> does it show there?
[09:26] <Kilos> yip
[09:26] <ThatGraemeGuy> probably just a software hiccup then
[09:27] <Kilos> yeah i think its corrupt inside
[09:27] <Kilos> need to flash the vmc stuff off methinks
[09:37] <magespawn> Kilos: busy uloading the files now, will post the link when done
[09:38] <Kilos> hi Vince-0
[09:38] <Kilos> ty magespawn
[09:38] <magespawn> all of these only work through win though
[09:38] <Kilos> the codes are there too hey?
[09:38] <Kilos> thats fine ty
[09:41] <magespawn> what codes are that?
[09:41] <Kilos> unlocking and unbranding
[09:42] <magespawn> yup the software does that
[09:42] <Vince-0> haia
[09:43] <Kilos> aha
[09:44] <magespawn> hey Vince-0
[09:49] <Kilos> hi Trixar_za
[09:49] <Trixar_za> Hey Kilos, how are you?
[09:50] <Kilos> good ty and you Trixar_za
[09:50] <Kilos> ?
[09:53] <Trixar_za> Just enjoying some free music by Josh Woodward and thinking about how to get the benefits of case sensitivity while retaining case insensitivity within certain functions. I figure you can just lower the value being checked and value you're checking it against. It should be a simple if statement and at most 3 lines of code.
[09:53] <Kilos> sjoe
[09:54] <Kilos> i thought case sensitivity was good
[09:57] <Trixar_za> It is, but the programmer of the game went a bit to far an made it universal for all text related functions
[09:57] <Kilos> lol
[09:57] <Trixar_za> like in game commands that the players and the GMs use
[09:58] <Trixar_za> So they had a big argument about it yesterday without coming up with a solution instead
[09:58] <Kilos> ai!
[10:03] <Trixar_za> I think the problem comes from them not designating roles properly. They also don't have somebody that takes on the role of the creative director. So the 'heads' of each department in game creation butt heads constantly when one oversteps their boundary.
[10:03] <Kilos> eish
[10:29] <Vince-0> surp durp
[10:29] <Vince-0> looks like RMS is coming to SA
[10:36] <Trixar_za> RMS is coming to SA?
[10:36] <Trixar_za> When and where?
[10:36] <Trixar_za> Would be nice to argue with him in person... er... I mean chat to him in person
[10:37] <Kilos> hehe
[10:37] <Kilos> wbb going to try fix modem
[10:56] <magespawn> Trixar_za: what game?
[11:40] <Kilos> ok now well see how long we stay connected
[11:47] <charl> hi Kilos
[11:47] <charl> connection problems ?
[11:47] <charl> Maaz: coffee on
[11:47]  * Maaz puts the kettle on
[11:47] <Kilos> modem probs charl
[11:47] <charl> ah i see maaz has been fixed
[11:47] <Kilos> or the software that uses it
[11:47] <charl> that sucks Kilos
[11:47] <Kilos> yeah maaz is going again
[11:51] <Maaz> Coffee's ready for charl!
[11:51] <charl> Maaz: thanks
[11:51] <Maaz> charl: No problem
[11:51] <charl> Maaz: botsnack
[11:51] <Maaz> Thank you thank you, munch munch chomp chomp
[12:02] <Trixar_za> Hey Kilos, do me a favour and check if mtr --report <IP_ADDRESS> also gives you ??? or 100% packet loss routes
[12:02] <Kilos> ok sec
[12:03] <Trixar_za> I might have to have a word with the IT people @ 8ta/Telkom Mobile about it :P
[12:03] <Kilos> 5 packets transmitted, 5 received, 0% packet loss, time 4003ms rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 261.580/261.670/261.755/0.649 ms
[12:03] <Kilos> i used maaz to ping it
[12:04] <Trixar_za> Need to be another 8ta user though
[12:04] <Trixar_za> Needs*
[12:04] <Kilos> my side works?
[12:04] <Kilos> what are you doing wrong
[12:06] <Trixar_za> No clue, but I have dead routes and sometimes it causes about a 30 minute interrupt of service to the Tokyo data center
[12:07] <Kilos> maybe they are having tsuname probs
[12:08] <Trixar_za> Nah, it's not their end. I asked. It has something to do with 8ta from mine.
[12:08] <Kilos> try using maaz to ping it
[12:09] <Kilos> or dont that use your 8ta
[12:11] <Trixar_za> Nope, that uses maaz's connection
 Kilos: 5 packets transmitted, 5 received, 0% packet loss, time 3999ms rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 866.776/912.171/955.759/32.160 ms
[12:12] <Kilos> QA is the bot on my channel
[12:12] <Kilos> ##kilos
[12:13] <Kilos> must be only 8ta there by you
[12:14] <Vince-0> its like nobody knows about this
[12:14] <Kilos> oh Trixar_za you can mail them and they even come out and check
[12:15] <Vince-0> Trixar_za, http://igg.me/at/rms-za/x/2330662
[12:15] <Trixar_za> That's pretty nice
[12:15] <Vince-0> ya if it was organised a bit better
[12:16] <Vince-0> trying to make a Durban event but I don't think it's going to work
[12:18] <Trixar_za> I'd go to the Cape Town event if it was held here
[12:19] <Trixar_za> I have a pretty nice question for him too
[12:19] <Trixar_za> :P
[12:19] <zeref> hmmm
[12:20] <Kilos> yo zeref
[12:20] <Trixar_za> "If no GNU tools are included (via the use of replacement tools like BusyBox) with a Linux distribution, should it still be called GNU/Linux and why?"
[12:22] <zeref> hi Kilos
[12:22] <Vince-0> Trixar_za, ha!
[12:22] <Vince-0> the answer is no
[12:22] <Vince-0> computer says noo
[12:26] <Trixar_za> I would just be interested to hear his opinion because in the past he was against BusyBox because he claimed it copied the behaviour of the GNU CoreUtils (which themselves copied the tools within Commercial Unixes)
[12:28] <Trixar_za> Also what ever happened to GNU's own kernel
[12:29] <Trixar_za> lol, Good luck getting Linus AND Richard in the same place
[12:29] <Trixar_za> riaan3 said 3 days ago
[12:29] <Trixar_za> I will double my donation if you bring Linus with (AWESOME)!
[12:29] <Trixar_za> ^--- lol
[12:35] <Vince-0> ya, GNU hurd is a bit slow - BSD kernel is in Debian
[13:30] <magespawn> Trix[a]r_za: mtr is a usuful tool, thanks for that
[13:34] <magespawn> Kilos: did youget those files?
[13:35] <Kilos> yeah ty magespawn installed and upgraded etc and modem been connected now for
[13:35] <Kilos> 1.5 hours
[13:36] <Kilos> serious discussions going on in the lists
[13:37] <Kilos> why dont you tell them its all about choice
[13:37] <magespawn> what is the discussion about?
[13:38] <Kilos> one is forcing peeps back to sucks and other about distro choice because canonical aint here
[13:38] <Kilos> hehe
[13:38] <Kilos> peeps are funny
[13:39] <Kilos> im not using ubuntu because mark is south african
[13:41] <magespawn> Kilos: exactly, and that forcing back to win is just for certain websites, and honestly it is not that hard to be inclusive when you do a website
[13:42] <Kilos> yeah also some things dont work in linux but so what
[13:46] <Kilos> hi Xethron
[13:46] <Kilos> one can dual boot to win for those things or run 2 pcs like i do
[14:03] <Xethron> Or Virtual Machine :D
[14:03] <Xethron> Virtual machine is prob the easiest
[14:10] <Kilos> you need a fast pc for that
[14:10] <Kilos> and lotsa ram methinks
[14:35] <Kilos> oh my , i go to all the prob of installing dropbox then find i already have one
[14:36] <Kilos> emaill addy well chosen methinks
[14:36] <Kilos> yo inetpro
[15:12] <superfly> yeah, sorry, RMS's days are over.
[15:12] <superfly> he now just rants and raves about stuff with no clear evidence
[15:50] <ThatGraemeGuy> superfly!
[15:51] <ThatGraemeGuy> or not... never mind :)
[15:51] <ThatGraemeGuy> kbye all.... happy long weekend!
[15:53] <magespawn> later all home time for me too
[15:54] <Kilos> later magespawn
[16:41] <Kilos> aw sorry ThatGraemeGuy  missed you trying to make remastersys work
[17:26] <Squirm> hi
[17:39] <Kilos> hi Squirm
[17:39] <Kilos> how is superfly ? still meh or at least meh+ tonight
[18:59] <Kilos> hi not_found
[19:00] <Kilos> night all. sleep tight
[19:00] <not_found> uncle Kilos , alo and bye
[19:00] <Kilos> hehe tomorrow
[20:53] <magespawn> http://www.tecmint.com/60-commands-of-linux-a-guide-from-newbies-to-system-administrator/ via The Linux Foundation on Facebook