[12:02] <sabdfl> hello all
[12:03] <MooDoo> Afternoon
[12:03] <sabdfl> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda/ has one item as far as I can see, highvolt1ge around?
[12:04] <sabdfl> dholbach: are we gathering today?
[12:04] <dholbach> sabdfl, we are, sorry - it slipped my mind
[12:04] <dholbach> let me try to round up the others
[12:07] <dholbach> I pinged everyone - I'd say let's get started - they can read backlog if necessary
[12:08] <sabdfl> dholbach: the only item I can see is:
[12:08] <sabdfl> sabdfl veto process
[12:08] <dholbach> highvolt1ge is in .ca now, so he might be better suited by one of the 21UTC meetings
[12:09] <dholbach> the only other thing I'd like to bring up is: a reminder about https://lists.launchpad.net/ubuntu-council-teams/msg00008.html (oneiric restaffing)
[12:09] <sabdfl> which is really about separating fact from fiction as to whether there is a firm view expressed by me on a particular issue
[12:09] <sabdfl> and documenting that view, and discussion around it
[12:09] <sabdfl> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda/talk
[12:09]  * dholbach reads up
[12:10] <sabdfl> i'm entirely open to the idea of keeping track of such decisions publicly, both for transparency and also to avoid some of the misuse of "Mark said..." that occasionally takes place
[12:10] <sabdfl> sometimes i hear about surprising decisions i apparently took from other people who have a friend that told them... ;-)
[12:10] <sabdfl> i don't think it's just me, though
[12:10] <dholbach> haha :)
[12:11] <sabdfl> i think it would be useful if team leads and others could express a definitive view and record that in LP
[12:11] <sabdfl> so, for example, if it's a Foundations issue, then the comment of Colin or Steve L could be recorded as the "definitive project view" till further notice
[12:12] <persia> Does it need to be LP?  Would the wiki work as well?  It has attribution as part of the info pages for anything written.
[12:12] <sabdfl> i often see a bug with a firm view from someone I would consider authoritative, be it cjwatson or mpt or mdke or someone else, but that is just one comment among many and newcomers may not realise it's the binding opinion
[12:13] <sabdfl> persia: for big heavy things the wiki would be fine, but a lot of this sort of decision making happens in the bug tracker
[12:13] <persia> Makes sense.
[12:13] <dholbach> I'm just not sure in which cases this needs to be "tagged" or "marked" as "definitive project view"
[12:13] <sabdfl> i.e. "the official reason we are moving to grub2 and will not support XYZ is..."
[12:13] <dholbach> sabdfl, mdke, mpt, cjwatson and others make decisions 500 times a day and in 99.9% of cases it's fairly uncontroversial :)
[12:14] <sabdfl> i agree - this is just for the cases where it *is* controversial and debate will continue, so you want to say to someone new to the bug "btw, this is the person who made this call, and here's their rationale"
[12:14] <sabdfl> it's never going to *stop* commentary on controversial bugs
[12:14] <cjwatson> I often find myself saying "but this is just my personal opinion" or something, although it's pretty clunky
[12:15] <persia> I think it's different when someone makes a decision in day-to-day activity, as opposed to taking a decision to end a controversial discussion.
[12:15] <sabdfl> but it would make for improved clarity on the decision maker and rationale
[12:15] <sabdfl> hey cjwatson, didn't mean to draw you into the discussion :-) but glad for your feedback
[12:16] <cjwatson> heh, that's OK, I have long-running tests in progress
[12:16] <sabdfl> i think in most cases we are pretty good at knowing, inside the project, who a natural decision-maker is
[12:16] <popey> sorry I'm late
[12:16] <cjwatson> definitive project views are often usefully expressed by editing the bug description, I find, although a lot of people forget about that
[12:16] <sabdfl> but for someone who stumbles into an issue and joins the discussion, that's not clear at all
[12:16] <dholbach> if the bug description can be "locked", I think it'd make sense to record the "definitive project view" in there, otherwise maybe on the wiki
[12:17] <cjwatson> I'm not sure I've ever actually seen a description edit war; I agree it's a theoretical possibility but I wonder if we need to be concerned about it
[12:17] <sabdfl> one advantage of flagging it on a comment (especially if the flag can be added later by someone else) is that different projects can hold different definitive views
[12:17] <sabdfl> i.e. this is why nautilus wants spatial, this is why XXX wants something different
[12:17] <cjwatson> the Debian BTS added a feature a while back where you could note a particular comment index as a summary of the bug
[12:17] <sabdfl> but that would be unusual
[12:17] <cjwatson> to some extent this is a workaround for not having an editable description, but it might be an interesting approach here too
[12:19] <sabdfl> a related issue on transparency might be clearer documentation of the project structure; for example, desktop and server team leadership
[12:19] <sabdfl> so even if there is no expressed view, it's clearer where one might find it
[12:20] <popey> hmm
[12:21] <popey> There is a (perceived) difference between the hundreds of decisions mpt / mdke / cjwatson make a day and the ones sabdfl makes. I suspect people feel that anyone other than sabdfl can be argued with. Whereas sabdfl cannot.
[12:21] <cjwatson> there was something about this on the platform wishlist for LP ages ago
[12:21] <popey> I've certainly seen people voice this in a roundabout way in the past
[12:21] <cjwatson> I think an idea was to have certain project/team emblems show up alongside commenters
[12:22] <Daviey> (There is a greasemoneky plugin that does this.)
[12:22] <sabdfl> cjwatson: that, and perhaps to promote those comments to being visible right after the description
[12:22] <popey> I don't know whether it's an approachability thing or whether people feel that it's because you're the project owner/sponsor.
[12:23] <cjwatson> I believe bug 81692 was the bug of record on this
[12:23] <sabdfl> popey: understandable. i think it's reasonable to expect any agenda/view/constraint to be documented though, and am happy to do that.
[12:24] <popey> Documenting a position is one thing, being (perceived to be) open to discussion is another of course.
[12:25] <sabdfl> i think there are two separate issues in that bug report from mdz
[12:25] <sabdfl> one is just showing affiliation for every commenter, where that can be determined and is relevant
[12:25] <sabdfl> so telling the difference between a commenter who has ANY official role in Ubuntu and one who does not
[12:26] <cjwatson> I'm reminded of the GNOME Bugzilla thing where it says (developer) or (translator) or whatever it is next to people's names; simple but effective
[12:26] <sabdfl> the other, is identifying a specific comment as a "definitive project statement" by an authoritative person
[12:26] <cjwatson> but yeah, doesn't really address what popey is saying
[12:28] <cjwatson> how much of this really needs a technical solution?  should we just be more careful about how we phrase things when we might come off as authoritative?
[12:28] <sabdfl> i can live with the controversy ;-)
[12:28] <Daviey> (For info, the greasemoneky script adds: http://bootie.daviey.com/~dave/lpfoo.png Karama and teams)
[12:28] <dholbach> maybe just 1) update description, 2) tag the bug for documenting the decision and 3) mark as "opinion"? :)
[12:28] <sabdfl> for someone who wants to debate, a decision is a pain. for everyone else, it's a relief.
[12:29] <sabdfl> karama! need more of that. sounds like fun :-)
[12:29] <Daviey> i blame oneiric :)
[12:29] <dholbach> the people who can mark an Ubuntu bug as "opinion" should know the decision makers in the project
[12:30] <sabdfl> and generally they do
[12:30] <sabdfl> ok. highvoltage wanted some record of specific decisions or guidance from me, primarily in cases where that's being quoted by third parties
[12:30] <sabdfl> i'm happy to run with a space on the wiki where folk can ask for such things to be documented officially
[12:31] <sabdfl> i am not going to start cc'ing everything i think to that space
[12:31] <sabdfl> but am happy to document positions there, and changes to them, on request
[12:31] <sabdfl> "can i have that in writing, please" ;-)
[12:32] <sabdfl> in addition, i think we can ask the LP folk about the ability to signal that a particular comment, by any particular person, is "the view of the Ubuntu project" or other project in LP
[12:32] <dholbach> shall we start a broader discussion about "definitive project view" somewhere? or is this just about "Mark decisions"?
[12:32] <sabdfl> i don't think we should get into having LP try to *guess* which statements are just statements and which are "the view"
[12:33] <sabdfl> so, I could mark a comment by cjwatson as "the view for Ubuntu", but so could cjwatson do the same on a comment from slangasek, or me, or mpt
[12:33] <dholbach> until then "AND THE FINAL DECISION IS: ..." in a bug description should make it quite easy to guess right ;-)
[12:34] <persia> How would ACLs work marking comments: any Ubuntu Member could so mark a comment?
[12:38] <dholbach> I think right now most of the bug decisions can be made by ubuntu-bug-control
[12:38] <dholbach> (which ubuntu-dev is a member of)
[12:38] <dholbach> I guess that'd make sense here as well
[12:40] <persia> Preserving ~ubuntu-bug-control as an arbiter of bug status/comment status seems the least-change ACL to me.
[12:41] <dholbach> in any case, the general idea makes sense to me and it'd be good to bring it up with Launchpad folks :)
[12:42] <dholbach> I'm not sure if there's more to be discussed on this topic for now? Maybe highvolt1ge can follow up on the CC mailing list later on and give us feedback about this discussion?
[12:43] <persia> "Project bug contracts should be able to mark particular comments as authoritative statements on behalf of the project"?
[12:43] <dholbach> persia, that sounds good to me
[12:43]  * persia files a bug
[12:44] <dholbach> thanks persia
[12:45] <dholbach> is there any other action items? sabdfl: have you thought about a place on the wiki already?
[12:49] <popey> Is the wiki he right place for this?
[12:50] <dholbach> sabdfl, had mentioned a wiki page before
[12:50] <persia> popey, Where else would you suggest?  Wiki has attribution and editability.
[12:50] <popey> Who is the target audience of this content?
[12:50] <popey> Community members, developers, 'outsiders' ?
[12:51] <dholbach> ls
[12:51] <dholbach> oops
[12:52] <dholbach> it'd really be good to get Jonathan's feedback, so we can see if the proposal that we discussed up until now helps with his concern
[12:52] <persia> Bug #800149
[12:53] <dholbach> thanks persia
[12:53] <popey> sounds like askubuntu +1 / -1 and *'ing a good answer to me
[12:54] <persia> Kinda, yeah, except not so crowdsourced: just binary.
[12:54] <popey> Who guards the guards? ;)
[12:55] <popey> I mean we already have bugs where someone in the project has rejected out of hand a bug report, and that would probably get a *
[12:55] <popey> but the rejection was (in the instances I'm thinking of) wrong
[12:55] <popey> but once it's been "tagged" as "The word of $DEITY" that's it, game over?
[12:56] <persia> I don't think it's ever "game over".
[12:56] <popey> the bit is then flipped to "opinion" and nothing gets done to 'fix' the issue, and we end up looking daft
[12:57] <popey> from a bug reporters perspective it is seen to be game over when the maintainer says "no"
[12:57] <persia> I think this gives us the ability to say "Yeah, we thought about it, and decided this".
[12:57] <persia> We have no maintainers in Ubuntu.
[12:57] <popey> that is not true
[12:57] <popey> unless I used the wrong word
[12:58] <popey> "people who maintain the thing the bug was filed against"
[12:58] <popey> ^ my use of maintainer
[12:58] <persia> We don't have those.
[12:58] <cjwatson> persia: that's a mantra, but its truth varies from package to package
[12:58] <cjwatson> we officially don't in order to discourage maintainer-lock problems
[12:58] <persia> The way the developer structures work specifically implies that no single person is ever completely responsible for a package.
[12:59] <popey> Yes, and meanwhilst back on planet earth.
[12:59] <cjwatson> but there are clearly plenty of cases where there's only one or two people working on something in practice, and from a bug reporter's point of view it's a distinction without a difference
[12:59] <persia> In practice, we may all agree to delegate the decision for something to someone who knows the most about it, but that's kinda different.
[13:00] <popey> Knowing most about it doesn't mean they're qualified to tag a bug as 'notabug'
[13:00] <persia> Indeed.  I don't think we ought ever delegate decisions that way, but in practice, we have.
[13:02] <dholbach> ok, where do we go from here?
[13:02] <popey> From a user/bug-reporter perspective if the person who seems to be curating the service/package the bug is filed against rejects the bug, and this is tagged as the right answer I am concerned that this brings the shutters down on further discussion.
[13:03] <cjwatson> while I do somewhat agree with you, my opposing perspective is often that voting seems to continue until morale improves, if you see what I mean
[13:04] <popey> I'm not advocating voting
[13:04] <cjwatson> that wasn't quite what I meant
[13:04] <popey> ok.
[13:05] <popey> I dont see what you mean then ☺
[13:05] <cjwatson> I meant that there are some things when discussion just goes on and on and on endlessly and it's a drain on everyone's time
[13:05] <cjwatson> even (or especially) after a developer has responded
[13:05] <popey> Oh completely.
[13:06] <cjwatson> one person's rejection out of hand is another person's belief that they've researched the problem more carefully and that the first instinct is seductively wrong
[13:06] <persia> Mind you, there are a number of cases where the developer responds "I don't have time, won't fix" without much explanation, but that's more a matter of "someone else has to do this: you won't convince me" than "this should not be done"
[13:06] <cjwatson> and that's what mediation is for
[13:06] <popey> I'm less concerned about those types of bugs being let to carry on and on, and more concerned about the bugs which start "this is a bug", "no it isn't tag:notabug", end of bug.
[13:07] <dholbach> but that's not necessarily different from what we have now, no?
[13:07] <popey> indeed
[13:08] <dholbach> I'm wondering if we can narrow done the discussion somewhat :)
[13:09] <dholbach> documenting "special" decisions (or however you might want to call it), especially in the case sabdfl, seems to be what highvolt1ge asked for
[13:09] <persia> I think the wiki page is the right solution for that.
[13:09] <dholbach> everything else seems to involve a lot more people in order to make it a good discussion (ie. closing discussion on bugs, etc.)
[13:09] <persia> The "Give me that in writing" response.
[13:12] <dholbach> ok, I'll take an action to reach out to highvolt1ge to find out if that's a suitable solution to his problem
[13:12] <dholbach> does anybody else want to take on any action item regarding this broader discussion?
[13:14] <dholbach> ok, I take this as a "no" :)
[13:15] <dholbach> it's not a proper agenda item, I just wanted us to have a look at https://lists.launchpad.net/ubuntu-council-teams/msg00008.html again - and it seems like the RMB Americas it the only board/council that is currently looking for nominees
[13:15] <dholbach> I know that the Forums Council has announced the new Membership process - did they also start looking for new nominees for the FC?
[13:16] <popey> is the Asia Pac board now up to full size?
[13:16] <dholbach> the CC and TB still have some time until they need to get restaffed
[13:16] <dholbach> popey, last thing I heard was that the LoCo Council was in touch with a couple of potential candidates
[13:16] <dholbach> I'll follow up on that thread again
[13:16] <popey> ok
[13:17] <dholbach> done
[13:18] <dholbach> does anybody know about the Forums and Kubuntu Council?
[13:18] <dholbach> are they fully restaffed again?
[13:18] <popey> i dont
[13:18] <dholbach> I think the Kubuntu Council sorted it out during UDS
[13:19] <dholbach> yes, Kubuntu is all good
[13:19] <dholbach> I'll ping the Forums Council as well
[13:19] <dholbach> anybody wants to write the team report this time?
[13:19] <dholbach> any other business?
[13:19]  * popey checks when we expire from the cc
[13:20] <dholbach> popey, https://lists.launchpad.net/ubuntu-council-teams/msg00008.html
[13:20] <popey> ah, oct
[13:24] <dholbach> any takes for the team report?
[13:29] <dholbach> ok, mails sent - let's adjourn - thanks everybody
[14:44] <bjf> ##
[14:44] <bjf> ## Ubuntu Kernel Team Meeting - Today @ 17:00 UTC - #ubuntu-meeting
[14:44] <bjf> ##      agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
[14:44] <bjf> ##
[16:59] <zul> heylo
[16:59] <RoAkSoAx> o/
[17:00] <smoser> o/
[17:00] <jamespage> o/ all
[17:01] <jamespage> anyone else around?
[17:01] <jamespage> o/ hallyn
[17:02] <sconklin> o/
[17:02] <jamespage> right then - lets get started
[17:02] <jamespage> #startmeeting
[17:02] <MootBot> Meeting started at 11:02. The chair is jamespage.
[17:02] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[17:02] <jamespage> [TOPIC] Review ACTION points from previous meeting
[17:02] <MootBot> New Topic:  Review ACTION points from previous meeting
[17:02] <jamespage> sommer and j1mc to look at doc presentation
[17:02] <jamespage> sommer or j1mc around?
[17:03] <jamespage> hmm guess not
[17:03] <Daviey> jamespage: sorry, i am here.
[17:03] <jamespage> [TOPIC] Oneiric Development
[17:03] <MootBot> New Topic:  Oneiric Development
[17:03] <Daviey> Hello!
[17:03] <jamespage> just in time - all yours
[17:03] <Daviey> http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-oneiric/group/topic-oneiric-server-overview.html
[17:03] <adam_g> o/
[17:03] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-oneiric/group/topic-oneiric-server-overview.html
[17:03] <Daviey> (/me actions himself to get the trend line reset)
[17:03] <Daviey> Firsty, we are doing much better with our merging and syncing; and our new bug count is looking better.  However, whilst we are making progress burning work items; we possibly need to switch more focus to the feature development.
[17:03] <Daviey> Incidently, we have a metric tonne of MIR's we need to undertake.  We really need to distribute these agmonst the team.  We should strive to raise the MIR's for at least two each before next week.
[17:04] <Daviey> Takeway.. if there isn't a WI for the engineering effort currently being done; ask yourself if you should be doing it. :)
[17:04] <Daviey> ...
[17:05] <jamespage> Daviey: are most of the MIR's around the dependencies for openstack?
[17:05] <Daviey> jamespage: mostly yes
[17:05] <Daviey> but TBH, there shouldn't be too much of a requirement to have a deepo knowledge of the package
[17:05] <jamespage> rightoh
[17:06] <Daviey> so pick 2.. and just get 'em done.
[17:06] <Daviey> Remember to mark INPROGRESS
[17:06] <Daviey> :)
[17:06] <zul> oooh...i can stop then :)
[17:06] <Daviey> (sorry for brevity, on the phone at the moment)
[17:06] <Daviey> zul: no, you need to do 4.
[17:06] <zul> oooh...i can stop then :)
[17:06] <jamespage> any other questions for Daviey or about oneiric development?
[17:06] <SpamapS> Daviey: briefly, I think the new bug count is actualy getting worse, not better.
[17:06] <Daviey> SpamapS: it's better than Friday.
[17:07] <Daviey> :)
[17:07] <Daviey> SpamapS: But yes, it's something to watch.. However, at the moment, we really do need to put more focus into feature work.
[17:07] <SpamapS> Daviey: 42 and 62 aren't really that much different. We were at 0 for 2 entire cycles.
[17:08] <zul> SpamapS: i was cracking at them this morning
[17:08] <hallyn> so the q is, is everyond doing their half-day bug triage, and is that not being enough?
[17:08] <SpamapS> I know that we have had a few more packages added, but we haven't had resources added.
[17:08] <Daviey> SpamapS: Hmm.. I have a graph.. but yes, but count is raising. And there is a secret weapon to help address this.
[17:08] <Daviey> hallyn: I think we've all fallen behind on the half day triage.
[17:09] <hallyn> Daviey: well that's good news bc it means maybe if we are more disciplined abouthat we can address this without being more drastic :)
[17:09] <smoser> [late question: where is the MIR list]
[17:09] <zul> hallyn: im not i know i been slacking
[17:09] <Daviey> smoser: see the WI's
[17:09] <smoser> ah
[17:09] <Daviey> smoser: http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-oneiric/group/topic-oneiric-server-overview.html (search for "MIR ")
[17:10] <jamespage> OK sounds like we all need to ensure that we are doing the full half day of bug triage that we sign up for each week
[17:10] <jamespage> it would be good to get the new bug count down
[17:10] <hallyn> Mind you I think the wiki page suggests it shoud only take a few minutes  :)
[17:10]  * smoser is looking forward to a bug triage engineer
[17:10] <smoser> there are major trends in that bug count
[17:11] <hallyn> smoser: are you cloning one? (an engineer that is)
[17:11] <smoser> that surely can be identified and easily reduced / removed with some dedicated engineering
[17:11] <smoser> hallyn, i thought i had put you in charge of that.
[17:11] <jamespage> anything else on Oneiric development?
[17:11] <Daviey> jamespage: no, please move on.
[17:11] <SpamapS> I also think that we may be writing off some common recurring themes as "a system problem" when the pattern itself suggests we should eliminate the automated bug report.
[17:11] <hallyn> smoser: mine will take, oh, 18 years to be ready.
[17:11] <jamespage> [TOPIC] Ubuntu Server Team Events
[17:11] <hallyn> but she's working on it
[17:11] <MootBot> New Topic:  Ubuntu Server Team Events
[17:11] <jamespage> anyone attending anything interesting?
[17:11] <hallyn> SpamapS: good point, maybe we should talk about that sometime
[17:12] <zul> linuxcon in august
[17:12] <SpamapS> yeah thats a topic for next week.
[17:12] <hallyn> ok
[17:12] <smoser> http://ubuntu-server-new-bugs.notlong.com/
[17:12] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://ubuntu-server-new-bugs.notlong.com/
[17:12] <SpamapS> Probably worth talking about now that its about a month away.. I'll be a OSCON in Portland
[17:12] <smoser> (juust for the record)
[17:13] <jamespage> noted
[17:13] <jamespage> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
[17:13] <MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
[17:13] <jamespage> hggdh: around?
[17:13] <hggdh> yes
[17:13] <jamespage> all yours
[17:15] <hggdh> no news from me, except a SRU verification fot TGT and NBD
[17:15] <hggdh> ..
[17:15] <Daviey> hggdh: Thanks for that.
[17:15] <Daviey> hggdh: We should probably sync up soon to look at what needs testing for A2.
[17:16] <Daviey> A2 should have installer differences.
[17:16] <hggdh> Daviey: indeed. We will need to revisit all tests
[17:16] <Daviey> hggdh: oh joy. :)
[17:16] <jamespage> hggdh: and update the automated testing as required as well
[17:16] <Daviey> hggdh: How is jenkins deployment going for CI testing?
[17:17] <hggdh> we are moving all Jenkins to the new lab facility
[17:17] <hggdh> and will be (hopefully) expanding the tests
[17:18] <jamespage> Daviey: when are the installer changes due to land?
[17:19] <Daviey> jamespage: by end of next week
[17:19] <jamespage> right so we need to line up any automated test changes to that timescale otherwise it will all break....
[17:20] <jamespage> ok anything else for hggdh?
[17:20] <jamespage> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
[17:20] <MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
[17:20] <smb> Hi
[17:20]  * SpamapS makes a note not to write his boot testing until after the installer changes
[17:20] <smb> So a bit more playing with Oneiric dom0. There is one thing I think we need to decide.
[17:22] <smb> Last time I looked, the xen tools would use the -server kernel installed as the dom0 kernel. Should that be changed to -virtual? With the benefit that -virtual should probably have blkback and netback compiled in. Which is currently a pita when trying to launch domUs
[17:23] <SpamapS> err
[17:23] <SpamapS> dom0 is a real server, so -virtual wouldn't have the needed components
[17:23] <zul> which xen-tools?
[17:24]  * SpamapS reiterates his long time opinion that this is why kvm > xen :-P
[17:24] <smoser> dom0 is not a real server
[17:24] <smb> Hm, true. (somehow was looking at hardy which take a xen kernel for both, but probably not a good example then)
[17:24] <zul> SpamapS: centos fan boy ;)
[17:24] <smoser> but i think -virtual is probably not sufficient
[17:24] <zul> right it isnt
[17:25] <smoser> do you happen to know  why?
[17:25] <zul> is that directed at me?
[17:25] <SpamapS> smoser: huh?
[17:26] <smoser> dom0 is not a "real server".
[17:26] <smoser> xen runs on the "real server"
[17:26] <SpamapS> Dom0, or domain zero to expand the abbreviation, is the first domain started by the Xen hypervisor on boot. It has special privileges, like being able to cause new domains to start, and being able to access the hardware directly. Unless DriverDomains are being used, it is responsible for running all of the device drivers for the hardware.
[17:26] <smoser> dom0 runs under xen
[17:26] <SpamapS> http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/Dom0
[17:26] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/Dom0
[17:26] <SpamapS> smoser: effectively, its a real server
[17:26] <smoser> it is meerley a priviledged domU
[17:26] <SpamapS> it needs all the drivers and hardware bits to be useful in the general sense.
[17:27] <SpamapS> Tho I agree it is not *actually* the real kernel.
[17:27] <Daviey> Is this OT?
[17:27] <smoser> yes.
[17:27] <smoser> i was mostly wrong.
[17:27] <smb> Ok accepted- So the question would rather be to make sure blkback and netback are really loaded when xen loads that kernel. (maybe in init?)
[17:27] <smoser> i was kind of thinking that dom0 might nit need drivers in some cases.
[17:27] <smoser> but was wrong
[17:28] <smb> Not sure we want that built-in into the kernel.
[17:28] <zul> smb: can you open up a bug against xen in launchpad about it then i can add it init
[17:28] <smb> zul, ok can do that
[17:28] <zul> thanks
[17:28] <smb> So the other thing I wasted most of my last week is bug 705562
[17:29] <smb> And finally I think I got a solution
[17:29] <smb> ... and its a bit scary
[17:30] <smb> It made me wonder whether 32bit was ever really used. Anyway, thats all.
[17:30] <jamespage> anyone have any questions for smb?
[17:31] <Daviey> smb: On another note, did you have thoughts on what we discussed yesterday; regarding the reserved memory theft?
[17:31] <Daviey> How we can add optimisations for low memory systems?
[17:31] <smb> Daviey, well not more than I was saying. Givem more. That actually is what older versions really did
[17:32] <smb> There is a price to pay to have pae and a virtual memory management
[17:33] <Daviey> smb: Okay, i'm interested if we can make cgroups disable memory hogging more discovrable for small systems
[17:33] <smb> Daviey, and we need to be careful about what this does. The hint is given in dmesg
[17:33] <smoser> smb, 32 bits are used.
[17:33] <smoser> definitely
[17:33] <Daviey> smb: okay, thanks.
[17:33] <smoser> at least on amazon, price makes them a real usable option
[17:34] <smb> smoser, Right, well the comment was about hardy version
[17:34] <Daviey> smb: that is all from me, thanks!
[17:34] <SpamapS> m1.small is 32-bits, yes?
[17:34] <smb> And about the fact that what happens breaks things quite badly and wondering how it worked at all (for longer period of time)
[17:35] <smb> SpamapS, right it is
[17:35] <SpamapS> Quite a popular instance size :-P
[17:36] <jamespage> OK; moving on
[17:36] <jamespage> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions regarding Ubuntu ARM Server (NCommander)
[17:36] <MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions regarding Ubuntu ARM Server (NCommander)
[17:36] <Daviey> NCommander: are you here?
[17:36] <jamespage> NCommander: around?
[17:37] <jamespage> hmm I would guess not
[17:37] <jamespage> anyone else able to give and update on ARM server?
[17:38]  * SpamapS hopes
[17:38] <jamespage> OK guess not
[17:38] <jamespage> moving on
[17:39] <jamespage> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions from the Ubuntu Community
[17:39] <MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions from the Ubuntu Community
[17:39] <jamespage> So any questions or updates from anyone in the ubuntu-server community?
[17:40] <jamespage> Nope
[17:40] <jamespage> [TOPIC] Open Discussion
[17:40] <MootBot> New Topic:  Open Discussion
[17:41] <jamespage> anyone have anything else they want to discuss/raise/inform us all about?
[17:41] <SpamapS> Hey everybody write more ensemble formulas! :)
[17:41] <RoAkSoAx> JAMES PAGE!
[17:41] <SpamapS> ETHERPAD
[17:42] <zul> jaaaaaaaaaaameeeeeeeeessssssssss page!
[17:43] <Daviey> thanks jamespage
[17:43] <robbiew> JAMES PAGE!!!1
[17:43] <adam_g> openstack and its related components can use more testing in oneiric! since ive been using it ive hit two major bugs that could have been discovered by simply trying to run it
[17:43] <zul> that glance bug is fixed btw
[17:43] <Daviey> adam_g: good point
[17:43] <adam_g> zul, i saw. thanks!
[17:43] <smoser> JAMES PAGE is an ubuntu developer. Woot!
[17:43] <robbiew> +10 adam_g
[17:44] <robbiew> I guess his developer contributions and activity were in line with precedence
[17:44] <robbiew> lol
[17:44] <RoAkSoAx> lol
[17:44] <jamespage> [TOPIC] Announce next meeting date and time
[17:44] <MootBot> New Topic:  Announce next meeting date and time
[17:44] <robbiew> (only funny if you were in yesterday's ubuntu membership meeting)
[17:45] <jamespage> Tuesday, June 28th 2011 16:00 UTC
[17:45] <jamespage> see you then
[17:45] <jamespage> #endmeeting
[17:45] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:45.
[17:45] <Daviey> o/
[17:59] <apw_> o/
[17:59] <smb> \o
[17:59] <kamal> o/
[17:59] <sforshee> o/
[17:59] <bjf> #startmeeting
[17:59] <MootBot> Meeting started at 11:59. The chair is bjf.
[17:59] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[17:59] <ppisati> o/
[18:00] <bjf> ##
[18:00] <bjf> ## This is the Ubuntu Kernel Team weekly status meeting.
[18:00] <bjf> ##
[18:00] <bjf> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
[18:00] <bjf> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Natty
[18:00] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
[18:00] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Natty
[18:00] <bjf> # Meeting Etiquette
[18:00] <bjf> #
[18:00] <bjf> # NOTE: '..' indicates that you are finished with your input.
[18:00] <bjf> #       'o/' indicates you have something you'd like to add (wait until you are recognized)
[18:00] <bjf> #
[18:00] <bjf> [TOPIC] ARM Status (ppisati)
[18:00] <MootBot> New Topic:  ARM Status (ppisati)
[18:00] <ppisati> Kernel development: nothing new to report.
[18:00] <ppisati> Oneiric/ti-omap4: during the last TI call we got to know that _perhaps_ we will get a 3.0 kernel for the O cycle. Still not 100% sure and no ETA yet. Linaro already has a .39 kernel but it doesn't boot on my panda (while it seems it works ok with a linaro hwpack if device tree is disabled).
[18:00] <ppisati> Gcc 4.6 and omap usb: lp#791552 has been confirmed as a kernel upstream bug, thus until we get a proper fix and as long as we us gcc 4.6, we loose usb across all the omap* targets. So far all the proposed workarounds didn't help.
[18:00] <ppisati> ..
[18:01] <bjf> [TOPIC] Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (ogasawara)
[18:01] <MootBot> New Topic:  Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (ogasawara)
[18:01] <ogasawara> [LINK] http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ogasawara/kt-meeting.txt
[18:01] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ogasawara/kt-meeting.txt
[18:01] <ogasawara> [18:01] <ogasawara>  * 28 linux kernel bugs (up 8)
[18:01] <ogasawara> [18:01] <ogasawara>  * 3 linux kernel bugs (up 3)
[18:01] <ogasawara> [18:01] <ogasawara>  * 0 linux kernel bugs (no change 0)
[18:01] <ogasawara> [18:01] <ogasawara>  * 25 linux kernel bugs (no change 0)
[18:01] <ogasawara> [18:01] <ogasawara>  * 3 linux kernel bugs (no change 0)
[18:01] <ogasawara> [18:01] <ogasawara>  * 8 linux kernel bugs (no change 0)
[18:01] <ogasawara> [18:01] <ogasawara>  * 0 linux kernel bugs (no change 0)
[18:01] <ogasawara> [18:01] <ogasawara>  * 23 oneiric bugs (up 4)
[18:01] <ogasawara>  * 1326 natty bugs (up 14)
[18:01] <ogasawara>  * 1129 maverick bugs (up 2)
[18:01] <ogasawara>  * 1038 lucid bugs (up 1)
[18:01] <ogasawara>  * 38 hardy bugs (no change 0)
[18:01] <ogasawara> [18:01] <ogasawara> [18:02] <ogasawara>  * 0 oneiric bugs (no change 0)
[18:02] <ogasawara>  * 4 natty bugs (no change 0)
[18:02] <ogasawara>  * 43 maverick bugs (up 1)
[18:02] <ogasawara>  * 77 lucid bugs (up 2)
[18:02] <ogasawara>  * 0 hardy bugs (no change 0)
[18:02] <ogasawara> [18:02] <ogasawara>  * 0 oneiric bugs (no change 0)
[18:02] <ogasawara>  * 450 natty bugs (down 3)
[18:02] <ogasawara>  * 247 maverick bugs (down 1)
[18:02] <ogasawara>  * 224 lucid bugs (no change 0)
[18:02] <ogasawara>  * 2 hardy bugs (no change 0)
[18:02] <ogasawara> [18:02] <ogasawara>  * 0 oneiric bugs (no change 0)
[18:02] <ogasawara>  * 2 natty bugs (no change 0)
[18:02] <ogasawara>  * 2 maverick bugs (no change 0)
[18:02] <ogasawara>  * 0 lucid bugs (no change 0)
[18:02] <ogasawara>  * 0 hardy bugs (no change 0)
[18:02] <ogasawara> ..
[18:02] <bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: Oneiric Delta Review (ogasawara)
[18:02] <bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-kernel-o-ubuntu-delta-review
[18:02] <MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: Oneiric Delta Review (ogasawara)
[18:02] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-kernel-o-ubuntu-delta-review
[18:02] <ogasawara> apw, lag, manjo, ralveti, rtg: you have work items to review your set of Ubuntu patches which I've postponed to Alpha-2 for you. Please take a moment to review when you have a chance. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Specs/KernelOneiricUbuntuDeltaReview for your specific set of patches.
[18:03] <ogasawara> ..
[18:03] <bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: Oneiric Server Requirements (smb)
[18:03] <bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-kernel-o-server-requirements
[18:03] <MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: Oneiric Server Requirements (smb)
[18:03] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-kernel-o-server-requirements
[18:03] <smb> Was able to get some domUs started  with Oneiric as dom0. Some strange problem to follow-up on when having xenconsole and console on a serial line. Also need to file a bug to get blkback and netback loaded when the system gets started as dom0. Otherwise there is a strange effect when starting the domUs
[18:03] <smb> ..
[18:04] <bjf> [TOPIC] Status: General Oneiric (ogasawara)
[18:04] <MootBot> New Topic:  Status: General Oneiric (ogasawara)
[18:04] <ogasawara> We uploaded the 3.0-1.2 Ubuntu kernel last week.  This was rebased on the upstream v3.0-rc3 release.  Alpha-2 is also approaching, ie Thurs June 30.  That means we'll likely upload our final Alpha-2 kernel this Friday June 24th.  If there are any patches that need to land in Alpha-2, get them sent to the kernel-team mailing list asap.
[18:04] <ogasawara> ..
[18:04] <bjf> [TOPIC] Status: Stable Kernel Team (sconklin)
[18:04] <MootBot> New Topic:  Status: Stable Kernel Team (sconklin)
[18:04] <sconklin> ||
[18:04] <sconklin> || Kernel SRU tracking page:
[18:04] <sconklin> ||   http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/sru-report.html
[18:04] <sconklin> ||
[18:04] <sconklin> || Current status:
[18:05] <sconklin> ||
[18:05] <sconklin> || Hardy: released
[18:05] <sconklin> ||
[18:05] <sconklin> || Lucid: Verification complete but a regression is suspected
[18:05] <sconklin> ||        Regression bug: http://launchpad.net/bugs/791512
[18:05] <sconklin> ||        Kernel will not be released until this is resolved
[18:05] <sconklin> ||        QA testing is in progress
[18:05] <sconklin> ||        Security Signoff is in progress
[18:05] <sconklin> ||
[18:05] <sconklin> ||
[18:05] <sconklin> || Maverick:  Verification complete
[18:05] <sconklin> ||            Awaiting QA testing or signoff
[18:05] <sconklin> ||            Security Signoff is in progress
[18:05] <sconklin> ||
[18:05] <sconklin> || Natty:  Regressions have been detected in -proposed
[18:05] <sconklin> ||         We are waiting for feedback from the reporters
[18:05] <sconklin> ||         and can't proceed until the regressions are
[18:05] <sconklin> ||         resolved.
[18:05] <sconklin> ||
[18:05] <sconklin> ||         Tracking bug: http://launchpad.net/bugs/792013
[18:05] <sconklin> ||         Regression bugs:
[18:05] <sconklin> ||              https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/794096
[18:05] <sconklin> ||              https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/793796
[18:05] <sconklin> ||
[18:05] <sconklin> ..
[18:06] <bjf> [TOPIC] Security & bugfix kernels - Maverick/Lucid/Hardy (sconklin)
[18:06] <MootBot> New Topic:  Security & bugfix kernels - Maverick/Lucid/Hardy (sconklin)
[18:06] <sconklin> ||
[18:06] <sconklin> || Current Kernel versions are always available here: http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/versions.html
[18:06] <sconklin> ||
[18:06] <sconklin> || Package                                    || Upd/Sec              || Proposed             ||  TiP || Verified ||
[18:06] <sconklin> ||                                            ||                      ||                      ||      ||          ||
[18:06] <sconklin> || lucid    linux-meta-lts-backport-natty     ||                      || <IP_ADDRESS>.20         ||    0 ||        0 ||
[18:06] <sconklin> || ---      linux-ec2                         || 2.6.32-316.31        || 2.6.32-317.34        ||    3 ||        3 ||
[18:06] <sconklin> || ---      linux-lts-backport-natty          ||                      || 2.6.38-10.44~lucid1  ||    1 ||        1 ||
[18:06] <sconklin> || ---      linux-meta-mvl-dove               || <IP_ADDRESS>.18        || <IP_ADDRESS>.19        ||    0 ||        0 ||
[18:06] <sconklin> || ---      linux-ports-meta                  || <IP_ADDRESS>.24         || <IP_ADDRESS>.25         ||    0 ||        0 ||
[18:06] <sconklin> || ---      linux-mvl-dove                    || 2.6.32-216.33        || 2.6.32-217.34        ||    8 ||        8 ||
[18:06] <sconklin> || ---      linux-meta-lts-backport-maverick  || <IP_ADDRESS>.36         || <IP_ADDRESS>.38         ||    0 ||        0 ||
[18:06] <sconklin> || ---      linux-lts-backport-maverick       || 2.6.35-25.44~lucid1  || 2.6.35-30.54~lucid1  ||   21 ||       21 ||
[18:06] <sconklin> || ---      linux-meta                        || <IP_ADDRESS>.38         || <IP_ADDRESS>.39         ||    0 ||        0 ||
[18:06] <sconklin> || ---      linux-firmware                    || 1.34.7               || 1.34.10              ||    0 ||        0 ||
[18:06] <sconklin> || ---      linux                             || 2.6.32-32.62         || 2.6.32-33.68         ||    3 ||        3 ||
[18:06] <sconklin> || ---      linux-fsl-imx51                   || 2.6.31-608.25        || 2.6.31-609.26        ||    0 ||        0 ||
[18:06] <sconklin> || ---      linux-meta-fsl-imx51              || <IP_ADDRESS>8.9         || <IP_ADDRESS>9.10        ||    0 ||        0 ||
[18:06] <sconklin> || ---      linux-backports-modules-2.6.32    || 2.6.32-32.32         || 2.6.32-33.33         ||    0 ||        0 ||
[18:06] <sconklin> || ---      linux-meta-ec2                    || <IP_ADDRESS>6.17        || <IP_ADDRESS>7.18        ||    0 ||        0 ||
[18:06] <sconklin> || maverick linux-ports-meta                  || <IP_ADDRESS>.21         || <IP_ADDRESS>.23         ||    0 ||        0 ||
[18:06] <sconklin> || ---      linux-mvl-dove                    || 2.6.32-416.33        || 2.6.32-417.34        ||    6 ||        6 ||
[18:06] <sconklin> || ---      linux-meta-mvl-dove               || <IP_ADDRESS>6.6         || <IP_ADDRESS>7.7         ||    0 ||        0 ||
[18:06] <sconklin> || ---      linux-firmware                    || 1.38.6               || 1.38.8               ||    1 ||        0 ||
[18:07] <sconklin> || ---      linux                             || 2.6.35-28.50         || 2.6.35-30.54         ||   14 ||       14 ||
[18:07] <sconklin> || ---      linux-backports-modules-2.6.35    || 2.6.35-28.20         || 2.6.35-30.22         ||    0 ||        0 ||
[18:07] <sconklin> || ---      linux-meta                        || <IP_ADDRESS>.36         || <IP_ADDRESS>.38         ||    0 ||        0 ||
[18:07] <sconklin> || natty    linux-meta-ti-omap4               ||                      || <IP_ADDRESS>9.7        ||    0 ||        0 ||
[18:07] <sconklin> || ---      linux-backports-modules-2.6.38    ||                      || 2.6.38-10.6          ||    0 ||        0 ||
[18:07] <sconklin> || ---      linux-firmware                    ||                      || 1.52.1               ||    0 ||        0 ||
[18:07] <sconklin> || ---      linux                             ||                      || 2.6.38-10.44         ||   15 ||       15 ||
[18:07] <sconklin> || ---      linux-ti-omap4                    ||                      || 2.6.38-1209.13       ||   10 ||       10 ||
[18:07] <sconklin> || ---      linux-meta                        ||                      || <IP_ADDRESS>.25         ||    0 ||        0 ||
[18:07] <sconklin> ||
[18:07] <sconklin> ..
[18:07] <bjf> [TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions: Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
[18:07] <MootBot> New Topic:  Open Discussion or Questions: Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
[18:07] <ogasawara> o/
[18:08] <bjf> ogasawara, go
[18:08] <ogasawara> 2 things...
[18:08] <ogasawara> 1) bjf, the links you post at the start of the meeting still reference Natty, should be Oneiric
[18:08] <ogasawara> 2) The bug stats we post each meeting, are those useful to anyone other than myself?  Would it suffice to just post the link to the stats?
[18:08] <ogasawara> ..
[18:08] <sconklin> o/
[18:08] <tgardner> ogasawara, RE: 2, the data is small enough that publishing it is fine.
[18:08] <bjf> ogasawara, thanks, fixed
[18:08] <sconklin> I have the same question about kernel versions in the meeting - is posting th elink just as useful?
[18:09] <bjf> sconklin, go
[18:09] <tgardner> sconklin, the elink is more appropriate in that case
[18:09] <sconklin> and the verified counts can be gotten from the sru status page
[18:09] <sconklin> and we can probably get the meeting down to 2 minutes ;)
[18:09] <sconklin> ..
[18:09] <bjf> anything else?
[18:10] <bjf> thanks everyone
[18:10] <bjf> #endmeeting
[18:10] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 12:10.
[18:10] <smb> thanks bjf
[18:10] <kamal> thanks bjf
[20:57] <czajkowski> 4 mins to Ubuntu LoCo Council meeting
[20:57] <czajkowski> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoCouncil/Agenda
[20:57]  * MooDoo is lurking learning whats going on
[21:01] <czajkowski> paultag: itnet7 leogg huats ping
[21:01] <paultag> hey guys
[21:01] <czajkowski> lets get this rolling
[21:01] <itnet7> o/
[21:01] <czajkowski> #startmeeting
[21:01] <MootBot> Meeting started at 15:01. The chair is czajkowski.
[21:01] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[21:01] <czajkowski> [LNK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoCouncil/Agenda
[21:01] <czajkowski> tonights agenda, we'll work our way from the top with the agenda items, followed by teams, listed as they are on the wiki
[21:02] <czajkowski> so firstly JanC are you about
[21:02] <czajkowski> [topic] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/loco-contacts/2011-February/005233.html
[21:02] <MootBot> New Topic:  https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/loco-contacts/2011-February/005233.html
[21:03] <czajkowski> well here is the update, Canonical have invested a lot of money in the once off gifts for locoteams who are approved
[21:03] <czajkowski> and out over the 70 teams less than half have applied for them
[21:03] <czajkowski> with that in mind there doesnt seem to be an interest in stuf from the store to be put there
[21:03] <JanC> hm...
[21:03] <czajkowski> what they have said is the art work will be available and the dimensions of the banners will be made available as it is possible cheaper to purchase in other counteries
[21:04] <czajkowski> sorry
[21:04] <czajkowski> hope that helps
[21:04] <czajkowski> moving on
[21:04] <JanC> well, we know we don't have to wait to see what Canonical has to offer then  ;)
[21:04] <czajkowski> cjohnston: ping
[21:04] <czajkowski> [TOPIC] Uniformity of Team Names
[21:04] <MootBot> New Topic:  Uniformity of Team Names
[21:05] <JanC> (I think not all approved teams are still active though, etc.)
[21:05] <czajkowski> this was brought up at UDS and has been on the back burner for the LC until now.
[21:05] <czajkowski> [link] http://loco.ubuntu.com/teams/
[21:05] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://loco.ubuntu.com/teams/
[21:06] <czajkowski> at present the DISPLAY name here is rather messy looking and we are proposing to standardise this
[21:06] <czajkowski> there is a mail in draft by itnet7 and us that will go out to loco contacts this week
[21:06] <czajkowski> and we hope to refine it with the help of loco contacts
[21:07] <czajkowski> so in the coming months we'd hope to see all the names displayed easier to read and also make it easier to find a team as it'll be named the same across the board
[21:07] <czajkowski> again more information will be on this via the loco contacts mailing list and our new Loco council BLOG ! :D
[21:08] <czajkowski> so moving onto approvals as we have a few to get through tonight ! :)
[21:08] <itnet7> +1
[21:08] <paultag> :)
[21:08] <itnet7> for the LC Blog!!
[21:08] <czajkowski> [topic] Venezuela Loco Team re approval
[21:08] <MootBot> New Topic:  Venezuela Loco Team re approval
[21:08] <czajkowski> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/VenezuelaTeam/ReApproval2011
[21:08] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/VenezuelaTeam/ReApproval2011
[21:08] <paultag> Stand up, ya'll! Who's here to cheer for Venezuela? :)
[21:08] <czajkowski> C3s4r: ping
[21:08] <czajkowski> you're up
[21:08] <keffie_jayx> o/
[21:09] <davidhdz> o/
[21:09] <czajkowski> keffie_jayx: ALOHA!!!!
[21:09] <C3s4r> czajkowski, Hi all
[21:09] <paultag> howdy
[21:09] <czajkowski> welcome folks
[21:09] <keffie_jayx> czajkowski: :)
[21:09] <nejode> o/
[21:09] <huats> hey keffie_jayx
[21:09] <czajkowski> Nice wiki page folks
[21:09] <leogg> hola
[21:09] <czajkowski> so easy to read thank you
[21:09] <C3s4r> czajkowski, thanks ;)
[21:09] <czajkowski> and pictures make me happy :D
[21:10] <czajkowski> C3s4r: so care to tell us about your team, how you get things done please ?
[21:10] <huats> pics makes all of us happy !
[21:11] <C3s4r> czajkowski, well, actually things are going great, the team has focused on the work of the dissemination of ubuntu in the country.
[21:11] <C3s4r> upps
[21:11] <C3s4r> czajkowski, sorry for my bad English.
[21:11] <czajkowski> C3s4r: don't worry :) really
[21:11] <czajkowski> we have leogg :)
[21:11] <czajkowski> if you need a help just ask him
[21:11] <leogg> :D
[21:12] <keffie_jayx> I could also help ;)
[21:12] <C3s4r> czajkowski, Ubuntu-ve at the beginning of its activities had little activity, but shortly after, because of the knowledge and responsibility that comes with being a team approved by the Ubuntu community, which is why for 3 years now the community has grown to 200% taking super important roles in the country and also international,
[21:12] <czajkowski> C3s4r: so who does your team reports well done! very good
[21:12] <leogg> C3s4r, your English is just fine!
[21:12] <czajkowski> yes you can see your events have grown over the years
[21:12] <czajkowski> well done
[21:12] <C3s4r> czajkowski, example was when a member of Ubuntu-ve had the opportunity to participate in the Summit Developert Ubuntu, this fills us with pride that we all have the same opportunity to disseminate and help the Ubuntu project.
[21:12] <czajkowski> C3s4r: what as a team do you find the hardest thing for you ?
[21:12] <czajkowski> C3s4r: yes I got to meet keffie_jayx he's great!
[21:13] <C3s4r> czajkowski, Our participation in local events have been very good, as to have members in every state in our country, covering every corner to publicize our work without discrimination of gender in our LoCo Team has existed since people with disabilities as entrepreneurs girls that live in the Free Software community in Venezuela.
[21:13] <keffie_jayx> czajkowski: participating in global events is difficult when a) people do not develop, nor participate in development b) language is a barrier
[21:14] <czajkowski> keffie_jayx: ok thanks
[21:14] <czajkowski> well it's a great application and I've no other questions to ask
[21:14] <leogg> keffie_jayx, but you have some experience with development, eg. turpial?
[21:14] <itnet7> The re-approval application really was nice work, and highlighted a lot of what you do, we all appreciate it
[21:15] <keffie_jayx> leogg: picking up the ropes, as a team we could be more involved in global jams et all
[21:15] <czajkowski> keffie_jayx: so that's an area you'd like to improve on
[21:15] <czajkowski> good that you cna highlight that
[21:15] <keffie_jayx> leogg: that case of turpial was special, we got to work with the debian folks in venezuela
[21:16] <leogg> keffie_jayx, indeed, the language barrier is not easy to overcome though
[21:16] <leogg> keffie_jayx, that's great!
[21:16] <keffie_jayx> czajkowski: we are already participating in Ubuntu Open Week in spanish and we are cosidering putting together Ubuntu Developer Week in Spanish
[21:16] <czajkowski> well done
[21:16]  * keffie_jayx keeps fingers crossed
[21:16] <czajkowski> ok
[21:17] <C3s4r> leogg, czajkowski keffie_jayx I have a space to talk and encourage boys to participate in events like the Global Jam
[21:17] <czajkowski> itnet7: paultag huats leogg ready to vote folks
[21:17] <paultag> I'm settled
[21:17] <leogg> C3s4r, nice!
[21:17] <leogg> yes, I'm ready
[21:17] <czajkowski> [vote] please vote on the re approval of the Venezuela LoCo . Please only council members vote.
[21:17] <MootBot> Please vote on:  please vote on the re approval of the Venezuela LoCo . Please only council members vote..
[21:17] <MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
[21:17] <MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
[21:17] <czajkowski> +1
[21:17] <MootBot> +1 received from czajkowski. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
[21:17] <leogg> +1
[21:17] <MootBot> +1 received from leogg. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
[21:17] <czajkowski> well done and keep up the good work
[21:17] <huats>  /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
[21:17] <itnet7> +1
[21:17] <MootBot> +1 received from itnet7. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
[21:17] <MootBot> Private +1 vote received. 4 for, 0 against, 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
[21:18] <leogg> really nice work folks! excelente trabajo!
[21:18] <keffie_jayx> me hugs C3s4r czajkowski nejode davidhdz Ntovar itnet7 huats paultag
[21:18] <huats> A great +1 for me, please continue to work like this !
[21:18] <paultag> +1
[21:18] <MootBot> +1 received from paultag. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
[21:18] <czajkowski> [endvote]
[21:18] <MootBot> Final result is 5 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 5
[21:18] <paultag> yes, well done. Keep it up!
[21:18] <davidhdz> thanks leogg, thanks guys :)
[21:18] <keffie_jayx> w00t, yay :)
[21:18] <czajkowski> [agreed] Venezuela re approved
[21:18] <MootBot> AGREED received:  Venezuela re approved
[21:18] <itnet7> great job!
[21:18] <leogg> davidhdz, thank you!
[21:18] <paultag> well done, folks! 'grats!
[21:18] <C3s4r> thanks all, gracias a todos.  :D
[21:18] <keffie_jayx> viva Venezuela mi patria querida...
[21:18] <czajkowski> [TOPIC] Denmark
[21:18] <MootBot> New Topic:  Denmark
[21:19] <czajkowski> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DanishTeam/RepprovalApplication2011
[21:19] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DanishTeam/RepprovalApplication2011
[21:19] <Ntovar> Gerardo
[21:19] <czajkowski> laoshi: ping
[21:19] <laoshi> o/
[21:19] <czajkowski> welcome
[21:19] <laoshi> thx
[21:19] <czajkowski> thanks for coming
[21:19] <sbc> o/
[21:19] <AJenbo> 0/
[21:19] <kjoller> o/
[21:19] <pixiarvai> o/
[21:19] <paultag> hey, guys!
[21:20] <itnet7> Wow, hey there everyonne!
[21:20] <czajkowski> laoshi: ok, so care to tell us about your team please
[21:20] <laoshi> at the moment things are moving. the remaking of homepage and forum has been quite a success
[21:21] <laoshi> and meetings in person at Aarhus and Copenhagen have become regular
[21:21] <czajkowski> laoshi: how do you share out getting things done??
[21:21] <laoshi> mainly through mailing-list and irc
[21:22] <czajkowski> you mention team irc meetings
[21:22] <czajkowski> I cant see any link to logs of the meetings
[21:22] <czajkowski> do you mail these out to the team afterwards?
[21:23] <laoshi> yes - but you are right that the logs ought to be on wiki
[21:23] <czajkowski> well it says once a month or needs be
[21:23] <czajkowski> what do you mean by that ?
[21:23] <laoshi> meaning that it can happen more often
[21:23] <AJenbo> http://ubuntudanmark.dk/blog/artikler/category/meetings/irc-meeting/
[21:23] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://ubuntudanmark.dk/blog/artikler/category/meetings/irc-meeting/
[21:23] <czajkowski> it's not linked anywhere on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DanishTeam/
[21:23] <czajkowski> annn ok
[21:24] <czajkowski> so you store them on the website
[21:24] <czajkowski> ok so you had 2 in 2011 but nothing since 2008 ???
[21:25] <AJenbo> We still haven't moved all from the old wiki to the web stie
[21:25] <czajkowski> AJenbo: can you show me on the wiki please?
[21:25] <sbc> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DanishTeam/M%C3%B8der
[21:25] <AJenbo> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DanishTeam/M%C3%B8der
[21:25] <sbc> :)
[21:25] <AJenbo> beat me to it :)
[21:25] <leogg> laoshi, I see you have a mentoring project? care to tell us something about that?
[21:27] <laoshi> yes. it's quite new. we launched it on the community yesterday. and some 6 or 7 persons have volunteered as mentors
[21:27] <laoshi> and we have 1 request for being mentored
[21:27] <czajkowski> laoshi: what does being an approved team mean to the team ?
[21:28] <laoshi> we have tried to have som categories like translation, support, arrangements etc
[21:28] <leogg> laoshi, cool
[21:28] <laoshi> it means that we will be able to carry on furthering the use of ubuntu with some autohority
[21:29] <czajkowski> laoshi: ok, on http://loco.ubuntu.com/teams/ubuntu-dk  with the new policy coming  into place, your team will have to change the display name to Ubuntu denmark loco team just fyi
[21:29] <huats> laoshi, being mentored to do what ? be part of the community? development ?
[21:29] <czajkowski> laoshi: have you applied for your gift from canonical, ie banner/table cloth ?
[21:29] <laoshi> mainly the community
[21:30] <laoshi> czajkowski, I think I'll have to let sbc answer - the offer came as I was getting into position as loco contact
[21:30] <czajkowski> laoshi: ok thanks
[21:30] <czajkowski> sbc: ?
[21:30] <sbc> sbc: Don
[21:30] <pixiarvai> huats,  in the case im will be mentor, and will help him in the support, so he can try more, and still have a "backup"
[21:31] <sbc> sbc: Don't think we have. Not that i'm aware anyway.
[21:31] <czajkowski> sbc: ok, any reason why, as canonical have put this together for approved teams?
[21:32] <sbc> Our previous loco contact left for a year in australia, and there might have been a period of no one knowing if it was their job or not. I personally haven't heard of this offer :)
[21:32] <czajkowski> ok
[21:32] <czajkowski> sbc: can you talk to huats after this meeting please
[21:32] <laoshi> sorry
[21:32] <czajkowski> ok, one final question before we vote
[21:32] <sbc> czajkowski: will do.
[21:32] <czajkowski> do you team reports??
[21:33] <sbc> It has properly been quite a while. It is one of those jobs that noone really want's to do, to be honest.
[21:34] <czajkowski> sbc: ok while it's not one people want to do
[21:34] <laoshi> not to my awareness - but the reapproval application gave me insights into what is happening, and can be modelled after tgat
[21:34] <laoshi> that
[21:34] <czajkowski> it is important as it shares with the greated community how teams are doing
[21:34] <czajkowski> [vote] please vote ont he re approval of the Denmark LoCo. Council members only
[21:34] <MootBot> Please vote on:  please vote ont he re approval of the Denmark LoCo. Council members only.
[21:34] <MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
[21:34] <MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
[21:34] <laoshi> and that will be one of my priorities - started
[21:34] <czajkowski> +1
[21:34] <laoshi> 1 month ago
[21:34] <MootBot> +1 received from czajkowski. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
[21:34] <czajkowski> please do team reports from now on!
[21:34] <laoshi> will do
[21:35] <pixiarvai> sure
[21:35] <MootBot> Private +1 vote received. 2 for, 0 against, 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
[21:35] <itnet7> +1 good work
[21:35] <MootBot> +1 received from itnet7. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
[21:35] <paultag> +1
[21:35] <MootBot> +1 received from paultag. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
[21:35] <leogg> +1
[21:35] <MootBot> +1 received from leogg. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
[21:35] <czajkowski> [endvote]
[21:35] <MootBot> Final result is 5 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 5
[21:35] <czajkowski> [agreed] re approved Denmark LoCo
[21:35] <MootBot> AGREED received:  re approved Denmark LoCo
[21:35] <leogg> and +1 on team reports
[21:35] <czajkowski> laoshi: but team reports from now on please!
[21:36] <laoshi> yes!'
[21:36] <itnet7> definitely, we love to hear about what the teams are doing!
[21:36] <czajkowski> [TOPIC] Philippines LoCo
[21:36] <MootBot> New Topic:  Philippines LoCo
[21:36] <huats> and please ping me tomorrow for the banners !
[21:36] <czajkowski> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PhilippineTeam/ApprovalApplication
[21:36] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PhilippineTeam/ApprovalApplication
[21:36] <czajkowski> zakame: ping
[21:36] <zakame> czajkowski: yo
[21:36] <zakame> hi all
[21:37] <czajkowski> zakame: just you here ?
[21:37] <zakame> yeah
[21:38] <czajkowski> ok want to tell us about your team please ?
[21:40] <czajkowski> zakame: your application is a bit bare.
[21:40] <paultag> yeah, esp. with the team history
[21:40] <zakame> yeah, as of late we're organizing our release party at both Manila and Zamboanga
[21:40] <paultag> zakame: you've not had a natty event, if I've read this right?
[21:41] <czajkowski> paultag: june 24th planned
[21:41] <zakame> yeah, we're going to have one this friday
[21:41] <paultag> ah, I see it now
[21:41] <paultag> humm.
[21:41] <paultag> zakame: do you have any photos from teh other events?
[21:42] <zakame> not that I'm aware of.  the current ubuntu-ph.org site lost some data during a transition, many photos
[21:43] <czajkowski> zakame: your application just isn't showing us activity, how things are done, team reports, what ye do
[21:44] <zakame> czajkowski: yeah, we haven't had much activities as of late other than release parties
[21:44] <czajkowski> zakame: so 2 events a year?
[21:45] <czajkowski> [vote] please vote on the re approval Philippines Loco. Council members only
[21:45] <MootBot> Please vote on:  please vote on the re approval Philippines Loco. Council members only.
[21:45] <MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
[21:45] <MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
[21:45] <czajkowski> +0
[21:45] <MootBot> Abstention received from czajkowski. 0 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 0
[21:45] <paultag> +0 please retry next meeting, after the party
[21:45] <MootBot> Abstention received from paultag. 0 for, 0 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 0
[21:45] <zakame> yeah, plus some occassional smaller/local events, like one in bicol
[21:45] <czajkowski> I'd like to see how the natty party goes, and maybe we can contine this over on the bug
[21:45] <leogg> +0
[21:45] <MootBot> Abstention received from leogg. 0 for, 0 against. 3 have abstained. Count is now 0
[21:45] <paultag> this next event will really make-or-break it
[21:45] <itnet7> +0 as well
[21:45] <MootBot> Abstention received from itnet7. 0 for, 0 against. 4 have abstained. Count is now 0
[21:45] <czajkowski> zakame: your application just isn't showing this, so we'd like to give you a 2nd chance to get it updated with more information
[21:46] <zakame> ok
[21:46] <MootBot> Private abstention received. 0 for, 0 against. 5 abstained. Count is now 0
[21:46] <czajkowski> [endvote]
[21:46] <MootBot> Final result is 0 for, 0 against. 5 abstained. Total: 0
[21:46] <czajkowski> [agreed] Philippines to re apply using the bug with an updated wiki page with more content
[21:46] <MootBot> AGREED received:  Philippines to re apply using the bug with an updated wiki page with more content
[21:47] <czajkowski> [TOPIC] Ireland
[21:47] <MootBot> New Topic:  Ireland
[21:47] <czajkowski> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IrishTeam/IrishTeamReApprovalApplication
[21:47] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IrishTeam/IrishTeamReApprovalApplication
[21:47] <czajkowski> for this application I'll not be voting
[21:47] <czajkowski> and the others will be doing the questions I'm here to cheer ireland on
[21:47] <czajkowski> paultag: huats leogg itnet7 fire away
[21:47]  * ebel is also here to cheer ireland on
[21:47] <czajkowski> ebel: step up
[21:47] <czajkowski> o/
[21:47] <airurando> go ebel
[21:48] <airurando> go Ubuntu Ireland
[21:48] <czajkowski> there are a few of us here
[21:48] <paultag> just a moment, just reading through :)
[21:48] <ebel> ahoy! I'm the PoC for ubuntu-ie and will be fronting the questions.
[21:48] <paultag> howdy ebel
[21:48] <theirishpenguin> come on ireland! ubuntu-ie!
[21:48] <ebel> though there are several ubuntu-ie'ers here now
[21:48]  * tdr112 is supporting ireland too
[21:48] <paultag> ebel: so give us a bit of a feel for your team, please :)
[21:48] <jpich> go ireland go :)
[21:48] <moylan> yay ebel!
[21:48] <paultag> ebel: what are some things you do really well, and what are some things that need work?
[21:48] <mokmeister> c'mon ubuntu-ie!
[21:49] <ebel> Well, we hold regular monthly irc meeetings
[21:49] <ebel> and had regular monthly ubuntu hours in several placves
[21:49] <ebel> we have a mailing list, facebook, twitter and identica accounts for communication
[21:49] <paultag> team reports look nice
[21:49] <ebel> we do regular release parties aswell
[21:49] <itnet7> ebel, How does work get distributed among the team?
[21:50] <czajkowski> tdr112: does an amazing job on the team reports
[21:50] <ebel> We're a quite loosely organised team, we don't have really have commitees or positions of power
[21:50] <tdr112> we could do more work on getting ubuntu event going on outside of dublin , we are working on this
[21:50] <ebel> when we decide that something needs to be done, people volunteer (or not)
[21:50] <ebel> A lot of regular 'grunt' work is has usually been handled by regular.
[21:50] <tdr112> over the last two years we have moved from only doing events in dublin to more events all around ireland
[21:51] <ebel> e.g. myself or airurando chair irc meetings, tdr112 does the monthly reports
[21:51] <czajkowski> we've been lucky getting colleges and hackerspaces on board
[21:51] <itnet7> good to hear tdr112
[21:51] <ebel> we're seeing the ubuntu community outside dublin (the capital city with ~25% population) expand
[21:52] <airurando> yes colleges and Hackerspaces help us greatly with events and Cd distribution efforts
[21:52] <ebel> we're seeing regular events in cork, limerick and galway (the next largest cities)
[21:52] <itnet7> ebel, all of you have done a great job! Re-Approval Applications like this really make it easy to see all of the great work and progress!
[21:52] <czajkowski> sending cds to the colleges has worked out well
[21:52] <leogg> airurando, how do you do the cd distribution thing?
[21:52] <ebel> and resources are distributed accordingly. e.g. the loco banner is down in limerick(ish) for an event there
[21:53] <infoturtle_> still in limerick
[21:53] <ebel> CDs have been distributed all over the country this release and last release.
[21:53] <paultag> Now this might be an odd question, but does anyone speak gaelic (and do translation work) ?
[21:53] <ebel> infoturtle_: I keep thinking you're in clare! :P
[21:53] <asoktheintern> I have done a little irish translation work
[21:53] <airurando> leogg we have developed relationships with Colloege Comp Socs and City Hackerspaces.
[21:53] <mokmeister> ebel: I'm in Clare
[21:53] <czajkowski> paultag: we do have a few people but we strugle to get people to do some, but we get some done each cycle
[21:53] <tdr112> paultag: not that many people do
[21:53] <leogg> airurando, that's great!
[21:53] <airurando> we send some CDs to each following each release
[21:53] <paultag> tdr112: yeah, it's not very common these days, from what I've read
[21:53] <ebel> paultag: not many people (in ireland) speak irish (aka gaelic)
[21:54] <paultag> ebel: aye :)
[21:54] <airurando> leogg we hope to develop these links further and possibly have more joint events
[21:54] <ebel> however there is some irish translation happening in a hap-hazard way.
[21:54] <paultag> What do you see as what you need to work on this next cycle?
[21:54] <leogg> airurando, teaming up with colleges is always a good idea!
[21:54] <paultag> And, additionally, how does being approved help those goals?
[21:55] <airurando> leogg definitely
[21:55] <ebel> well to keep going with what we have is important. we want to ensure that there are still ubuntu events happening in ireland and dublin and beyond
[21:56] <itnet7> czajkowski: I think we're ready to vote
[21:56] <ebel> approval means resources (e.g. cds) that can help spread the world all over the country
[21:56] <ebel> aswell as giving us something to aim for
[21:56] <paultag> I'm good here
[21:56] <huats> good too
[21:56] <czajkowski> [vote] Please vote on the re approval of the Irish Loco.  Council members only
[21:56] <MootBot> Please vote on:  Please vote on the re approval of the Irish Loco.  Council members only.
[21:56] <MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
[21:56] <MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
[21:56] <paultag> czajkowski: +vote time, please?
[21:56] <MootBot> Private +1 vote received. 1 for, 0 against, 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
[21:56] <paultag> +1, well done. Keep it up
[21:56] <czajkowski> +0
[21:56] <MootBot> Abstention received from czajkowski. 1 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 1
[21:56] <leogg> +1
[21:56] <MootBot> +1 received from leogg. 2 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 2
[21:56] <itnet7> +1
[21:56] <paultag> +1
[21:56] <MootBot> +1 received from itnet7. 3 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 3
[21:56] <MootBot> +1 received from paultag. 4 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 4
[21:56] <czajkowski> [endvote]
[21:56] <MootBot> Final result is 4 for, 0 against. 1 abstained. Total: 4
[21:56] <itnet7> Awesome work!!
[21:56] <huats> To phrase someone Ihave heard lately : you fucking rock :)
[21:57] <paultag> well done :)
[21:57] <paultag> +1 huats
[21:57] <czajkowski> [agreed] Ireland LoCo re approved
[21:57] <MootBot> AGREED received:  Ireland LoCo re approved
[21:57] <ebel> :D yay!
[21:57] <leogg> keep up the great work Ireland!
[21:57] <infoturtle_> huzzar Ubuntu-IE!!
[21:57] <airurando> great stuff
[21:57] <czajkowski> whooooooooooo
[21:57] <jpich> woohoo :)
[21:57] <airurando> thanks so much all
[21:57] <huats> terrific work really
[21:57] <paultag> 'grats, guys!
[21:57] <moylan> cool!
[21:57] <czajkowski> [topic] Japan LoCo re approval
[21:57] <MootBot> New Topic:  Japan LoCo re approval
[21:58] <czajkowski> [linkk] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JapaneseTeam/ApprovalApplication
[21:58] <czajkowski> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JapaneseTeam/ApprovalApplication
[21:58] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JapaneseTeam/ApprovalApplication
[21:58] <paultag> who's here? :)
[21:58] <czajkowski> jkbys: ping
[21:58] <jkbys> hi
[22:00] <itnet7> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JapaneseTeam/TeamReports
[22:00] <czajkowski> jkbys: ok care to tell us about your team, is there anyone else here
[22:00] <paultag> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JapaneseTeam/TeamReports
[22:00] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JapaneseTeam/TeamReports
[22:00] <paultag> Wow, solid TRs
[22:00]  * czajkowski loves team reports
[22:00] <czajkowski> makes my life easier!
[22:01] <itnet7> jkbys: did the team have an Ubuntu booth at all of those conferences that were listed?
[22:01] <jkbys> yes
[22:01] <itnet7> Wowzers!
[22:01] <paultag> that's rather impressive
[22:02] <jkbys> and we have seminar sessions
[22:02] <itnet7> jkbys: does the team have a good mix of developers, advocates, and other contributors?
[22:02] <paultag> jkbys: how's translation work going?
[22:02] <paultag> +1 itnet7
[22:02] <paultag> let's hear that first :)
[22:05] <jkbys> itnet7: I think yes. The number of us is only 10, but many guys help us
[22:05] <czajkowski> nice wiki page
[22:06] <czajkowski> jkbys: how do you get your team motivated ?
[22:06] <paultag> jkbys: how's translation work these days?
[22:07] <jkbys> paultag: member of https://launchpad.net/~lp-l10n-ja work for translations
[22:07] <paultag> jkbys: about how many loco members are a part of that team?
[22:07] <paultag> roughly
[22:08] <itnet7> Nice! There's even an online published Ubuntu-Japan Magazine, great work
[22:08] <huats> Are you able to interact with other LoCos and LUGs ?
[22:10] <jkbys> paultag: all of JP LoCo members are translation team members
[22:10] <paultag> that's what I like to hear :)
[22:10] <czajkowski> [vote] please vote on the  reapproval of the Japanese Team re approval. Council members only
[22:10] <MootBot> Please vote on:  please vote on the  reapproval of the Japanese Team re approval. Council members only.
[22:10] <MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
[22:10] <MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
[22:10] <czajkowski> +1
[22:10] <MootBot> +1 received from czajkowski. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
[22:10] <paultag> +1
[22:10] <MootBot> +1 received from paultag. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
[22:10] <czajkowski> nice work
[22:10] <MootBot> Private +1 vote received. 3 for, 0 against, 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
[22:10] <paultag> no question, keep it up
[22:10] <itnet7> +1
[22:10] <MootBot> +1 received from itnet7. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
[22:11] <czajkowski> [endvote]
[22:11] <MootBot> Final result is 4 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 4
[22:11] <itnet7> Awesome Job
[22:11] <jkbys> thank you
[22:11] <czajkowski> [agreed] Japanese Team reapproved
[22:11] <MootBot> AGREED received:  Japanese Team reapproved
[22:11] <czajkowski> thanks folks
[22:11] <czajkowski> well done
[22:11] <czajkowski> #endmeeting
[22:11] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 16:11.
[22:11] <czajkowski> whoot
[22:11] <paultag> woo
[22:11] <paultag> /wc here :)
[22:11] <MooDoo> wow interesting :)
[22:11] <itnet7> \o/
[22:11] <czajkowski> paultag: itnet7 huats which one of ye are doing the mins and updating the teams and wiki page :D
[22:11] <itnet7> I will
[22:11] <czajkowski> and we didn't go too over
[22:11] <czajkowski> ntb
[22:11] <czajkowski> :D
[22:12] <itnet7> tonight
[22:12] <itnet7> :-)
[22:13] <czajkowski> 19 more teams to et done between now and october...
[22:13] <czajkowski> no pressure
[22:14] <MooDoo> "you can do it" to quote a film :)
[22:14] <czajkowski> MooDoo: yer on my list!
[22:14] <ajmitch> czajkowski: that excludes new teams that haven't gone for approval before? :)
[22:14] <MooDoo> czajkowski: eeeeeeeek
[22:14] <czajkowski> ajmitch: aye
[22:15] <czajkowski> ajmitch: each cycle  ther are teams that expire, once you're approved you get 2 years then come back to a meeting like tonight
[22:15]  * ajmitch doesn't see the NZ team being official anytime soon, though
[22:15] <czajkowski> and show us how they are doing
[22:15] <czajkowski> so team reports big help, photos, blog reports all make it easy for us to see
[22:20] <AlanBell> o/
[22:21] <MooDoo> hi AlanBell


[07:50] <kmq> so I am firing up  11.04 this morning to be greeted by "your browser has been updated. plz restart" and I did. Now I have  Firefox5 with many of my extensions (notably firebug) not working
[07:50] <kmq> is this something I could have avoided by changing some sort of update setting, or does this warrant a bugreport ?
[07:53] <micahg> kmq: well, extension compatibility was at about 83% upstream
[07:53] <micahg> kmq: Firebug released an update to work with Firefox 5, do you have a system copy installed?
[07:54] <kmq> no, I installed via addons.mozilla.org
[07:54] <micahg> kmq: hmm, you should have received an update for it then
[07:55] <micahg> 1.7.3 works with Firefox 5
[07:56] <kmq> I have 1.7.3 in the addons list and it's disabled - searching for updates gives me nothing
[07:56] <kmq> I am installing 1.8 manually
[07:57] <micahg> kmq: maybe ask in #firebug on  irc.mozilla.org
[07:58] <kmq> well, 1.8 works
[07:59] <kmq> I am just surprised, I usually disable auto-updating. checking in 'update-manager' I see the 'Automatic update' radiobuttons all looking like this (-)
[07:59] <kmq> like all of them are 'half' selected
[07:59] <kmq> so I m guessing autoupdating is the default until I make a selection.
[08:00] <kmq> well, sorry for the noise and thank you for the help
[08:00]  * micahg wonders why 1.8 works and 1.7.3 doesn't
[08:00]  * micahg will dig further in the morning
[08:01] <kmq> also: http://getfirebug.com/swarms/Firefox-5.0/ :-)
[08:01] <kmq> you get there by clicking 'get your swarm'  on the getfirebug page
[08:03] <micahg> thanks
[13:28] <chrisccoulson> i can't believe we have someone actually asking to stay on an old firefox version - bug 800637
[13:28] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 800637 in firefox "Firefox 5 shouldn't be a security upgrade to Firefox 4" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/800637
[14:05] <fta2> chrisccoulson, i know a lot of people happy with what they have. Once they consider it stable enough for their needs, they don't want to touch it
[16:07] <kmq> chrisccoulson: re that bug. I got bitten by that this morning and I can kinda sympathize with 'someone' - noone likes broken tools
[16:08] <kmq> in the comments you were asking for the firebug version: I had 1.7.3
[16:23] <chrisccoulson> well, 1.7.3 is already compatible with 5.0
[16:41] <fta> https://launchpad.net/~chromium-daily/+archive/ppa/+build/2583323  :(
[16:58] <chrisccoulson> fta - lucky you! i uploaded some builds yesterday morning which just finished 1 hour ago
[16:59] <chrisccoulson> i'm getting seriously annoyed now :/
[16:59] <chrisccoulson> i've given up trying to do daily builds entirely for now
[16:59] <chrisccoulson> i've no idea when the missing builders are going to come back
[17:02] <chrisccoulson> i've asked a couple of times in #launchpad now and didn't get a single response
[17:09] <fta> same here, i stopped asking. they obviously don't care about their users
[17:11] <bhearsum> anyone know how to work around this error: http://pastebin.mozilla.org/1255345 ? i get it at the start of the second pass of a PGO build
[17:12] <chrisccoulson> bhearsum, that's on our toolchain?
[17:12] <bhearsum> yeah, compiled on my x86_64 11.04 machine
[17:13] <chrisccoulson> bhearsum, i'm not too sure about that. it might be worth reporting a gcc bug, but i don't know what information you'd need to provide
[17:13] <bhearsum> alright, will do! i was hoping it was a common problem :S
[17:13] <chrisccoulson> i haven't tried doing a PGO build recently ;)
[17:13] <chrisccoulson> i guess i might hit the same issue
[17:13] <chrisccoulson> i suppose i could give it a try in a bit
[17:14] <chrisccoulson> oh, there's a new unity version now. probably not the best time for me to upgrade
[17:17] <bhearsum> hah
[17:19] <chrisccoulson> bhearsum, are you familiar with the process for bumping addon compatibility on addons.mozilla.org? ie, is the version number bumped? and if not, how does firefox detect that there is a new addon version to upgrade to?
[17:19] <chrisccoulson> or am i misunderstanding how it works?
[17:19] <bhearsum> chrisccoulson: kindof, but i'm on a call, so i'll get back to you
[17:20] <chrisccoulson> bhearsum, sure, no problem
[17:26] <chrisccoulson> hmmm, i think it's time for me to switch my work mail from evo to thunderbird now
[17:26] <chrisccoulson> it makes no sense for me to constantly have 2 e-mail clients open
[17:37] <chrisccoulson> fta - https://launchpad.net/~chrisccoulson/+archive/ppa/+build/2584715
[17:37] <chrisccoulson> although, "Start in 20 hours" is a lie
[17:38] <chrisccoulson> language packs are scored at zero, and don't start until there is literally nothing else left in the queue
[17:38] <chrisccoulson> and that hasn't happened once in the last week yet
[17:41] <fta> chrisccoulson, in my case, it was "Start in 10 hours" but "created 14 hours ago"
[17:42] <chrisccoulson> fta - oh, i didn't see that bit ;)
[17:42] <chrisccoulson> in any case, that will run long before mine do
[17:43] <fta> no, it won't, because the next one will have been uploaded and this one will be superseded
[17:43] <fta> so i'll get no valid build in days
[17:44] <fta> blocking the upgrade of the all the x64 bit users because of the arch-all debs
[17:44] <bhearsum> chrisccoulson: i'm actually not sure if the version number is bumped or not, i would _guess_ that it isn't, and that there's some mechanism used in combination with that to determine newness, maybe a distversion or something -- i'm certain #amo on irc.m.o could answer that with certainty, though
[17:44] <fta> so it's a total mess
[17:45] <chrisccoulson> bhearsum, the only reason i asked is because we got a couple of users who ended up with an incompatible version of firebug installed after the upgrade (1.7.3, which is compatible with 5.0 according to a.m.o)
[17:45] <chrisccoulson> and i wasn't sure how this is meant to work :)
[17:47] <bhearsum> hmm, i heard other reports of issues with firebug
[17:47] <bhearsum> i'd be surprised if Firebug got autobumped, to be honest
[17:48] <chrisccoulson> yeah, me too
[18:37] <chrisccoulson> m_conley, http://uds.ubuntu.com/
[18:37] <chrisccoulson> it has a nice pool!
[18:37] <m_conley> Hey, awesome! :)
[18:44] <chrisccoulson> bhearsum, PGO isn't enabled by default on current mozilla-central builds is it?
[18:50] <chrisccoulson> hah, my daughter has figured out that by touching the base of my lamp, she can adjust it's brightness
[18:50] <chrisccoulson> i now have a disco going on this room
[18:55] <bhearsum> chrisccoulson: it is for linux and windows AFAIK
[18:55] <bhearsum> err, wait
[18:55] <chrisccoulson> bhearsum, i thought it got disabled again on linux?
[18:55] <chrisccoulson> unless it was re-enabled again
[18:55] <bhearsum> "by default" means "if i don't specify it in mozconfig" or are talking about our CI builds?
[18:55] <chrisccoulson> i don't know how to find out ;)
[18:55] <bhearsum> heh
[18:55] <bhearsum> lemme check
[18:56] <bhearsum> i know my local aurora build that keeps crashing has PGO on :P
[18:56] <chrisccoulson> heh
[18:57] <bhearsum> i'm seeing make -f /builds/slave/cen-lnx/build/client.mk profiledbuild in the logs, which means it's on
[18:57] <bhearsum> at least, for our CI builds
[18:57] <chrisccoulson> bhearsum, ah, ok. thanks. i guess i should think about switching it on as well then
[18:59] <bhearsum> yeah, that'd be great. though, i haven't heard that PGO has made a massive difference on linux
[19:01] <chrisccoulson> bhearsum, does it make the binaries smaller by any chance?
[19:01] <chrisccoulson> that would help to fit thunderbird on our CD ;)
[19:02] <bhearsum> hah
[19:02] <bhearsum> i don't know that it makes a difference either way
[19:05] <chrisccoulson> bhearsum, oh - http://twitter.com/#!/shaver/status/83595913628631040
[19:07] <bhearsum> ah!
[19:07] <bhearsum> i knew i saw something about that :)
[19:08] <chrisccoulson> heh :)
[19:14] <chrisccoulson> hmmm, i wonder if pitti will score all my language pack builds up so i can actually copy firefox 5 to the stable PPA sometime this year :/
[19:46] <micahg> chrisccoulson: fta: the builders should've been back already, there was an unfortunate glitch which caused them not to return, please don't think they don't care about their users
[19:56] <fta> micahg, sorry but this is a recurrent issue. builders always disappear without any kind of proactive or even reactive notification, and never any ETA for their expected return.
[19:57] <micahg> fta: that much maybe we can do something about, I'll ask :)
[19:57] <fta> micahg, and i've personally filed enough bugs about lp that have been touched passed their triaged state, showing me they don't care
[19:57] <fta> have +never
[19:58] <fta> i'm sick of writing workaround scripts
[19:58] <micahg> they're working through the backlog, it's ~50 people and ~6k bugs
[19:58] <micahg> launchpad has come a long way in the last year
[19:58] <micahg> and the new split between features and maintenance will help as well
[20:05] <fta> rotating people every few weeks mostly killed the little activity there was on my bugs
[20:06] <fta> skills are lost faster than bugs are fixed
[20:45] <chrisccoulson> nice font - https://mozillademos.org/demos/dashboard/demo.html !
[20:54] <fta> chrisccoulson, hm, http://people.ubuntu.com/~fta/insecure-scripts.png
[21:11] <chrisccoulson> fta - sorry, my laptop died
[21:12] <chrisccoulson> i guess you see that because the site loads http://ajax.googleapis.com/ajax/libs/jquery/1.4/jquery.min.js
[21:12] <chrisccoulson> i haven't tried it in chromium though
[21:13] <debfx> chrisccoulson: have you seen my message about language packs pulling in firefox?
[21:14] <chrisccoulson> debfx, yeah, sorry, i haven't had a chance to reply yet
[21:15] <chrisccoulson> that's not going to change in natty now though, and i think that they *should* depend on firefox too (the thunderbird-locale-xx packages also depend on thunderbird)
[21:15] <chrisccoulson> the issue here is that we have this transitional period where the main language packs need to recommend the firefox language packs
[21:15] <chrisccoulson> (which will go away after the next LTS, when we just rely on language-selector to pull in the right firefox translations)
[21:16] <debfx> why do the firefox locale packages have to depend on firefox?
[21:16] <chrisccoulson> i guess for oneiric i could drop the depends, and add some Breaks in there so that we still have a way of preventing people from updating firefox without updating their language packs
[21:17] <chrisccoulson> why wouldn't they depend on firefox though? why would you install them without installing firefox?
[21:17] <chrisccoulson> and like i said, the thunderbird-locale packages have depended on thunderbird since the beginning of time
[21:19] <debfx> I just don't see much practical gain in having the dependency so if it causes problems I'd just drop it
[21:23] <chrisccoulson> well, the dependency in the current nightly builds is strict so that we avoid the constant issues where users upgrade firefox without upgrading language packs
[21:24] <chrisccoulson> then their installs totally breaks because they have the addon compatibility reporter installed, which enables the old language packs (which should have failed the compatibility check)
[21:24] <chrisccoulson> so, it's definitely there for a reason
[21:24] <chrisccoulson> if we can do it another way, then i don't mind that, but i'm not going to spend any time changing things like that
[21:30] <debfx> you could keep the dependency for nightly builds only
[21:31] <debfx> or like you said use breaks instead of a dependency
[21:36] <chrisccoulson> debfx, well, the dependency in the nightly builds will flow down in to the distro (which is where we have the problem)
[21:38] <chrisccoulson> i should probably report a bug upstream about disabling the compat check for language packs. i think that setting should just be ignored tbh
[21:38] <chrisccoulson> i can't think of a situation where you would want to disable the compat check for translations, as it's always going to end in tears
[21:40] <chrisccoulson> then we wouldn't need the strict relationship between firefox + translation packs at the packaging level
[22:03] <chrisccoulson> right, finally uploading the latest tbird beta :)
[22:06] <fta> ..and you'll get your build for christmas ;)
[22:07] <fta> sorry, couldn't resist
[22:07] <chrisccoulson> fta - oh, this is to the main archive ;)
[22:08] <chrisccoulson> so, i should get them quickly :)
[22:08] <fta> lucky you
[22:08] <chrisccoulson> (although, i am also going to upload to the thunderbird-next PPA, which might not get them until christmas)
[23:13] <micahg> chrisccoulson: yeah, the locale packages shouldn't depend on firefox, but a Breaks is more appropriate, otherwise, we force kubuntu users to install firefox
[23:13] <chrisccoulson> that seems like a desirable side-effect ;)
[23:14] <micahg> and this is the type of stuff I was hoping to avoid with my call for testing...
[23:16] <chrisccoulson> i'll change that in the nightlies in a bit then
[23:24]  * micahg looks up exactly which syntax is proper
[23:28] <debfx> micahg: yeah someone should have caught that while the language packs were in natty-proposed
[23:28] <micahg> chrisccoulson: yeah, breaks w/version guards sounds good
[23:28] <debfx> though I wonder why they don't have a tracking bug
[23:28] <micahg> debfx: why who
[23:28] <debfx> the language pack uploads
[23:29] <debfx> to track regressions
[23:29] <micahg> they were normal, it was Firefox that was unusual in this case and causing issues
[23:29] <chrisccoulson> they don't usually, do they?
[23:29] <chrisccoulson> normally, a call for testing goes out for translators
[23:29] <micahg> Firefox did have a tracking bug
[23:29] <chrisccoulson> and the language packs have sat in proposed for pretty much a fortnight
[23:30] <micahg> debfx: does kpackagekit install recommends by default?
[23:30] <micahg> on upgrade that is
[23:30] <chrisccoulson> the issue really is that we attract all the wrong people to -proposed ;)
[23:31] <chrisccoulson> (ie, people enable it without understanding what it's for. these people don't read mailing lists and don't realize they've become guinea pigs)
[23:31] <micahg> ah, is bug 800857 what you're all referring to?
[23:31] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 800857 in language-pack-en-base "language-pack-en-base 1:11.04+20110607 adds firefox as dependency" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/800857
[23:31] <debfx> micahg: I'd hope so but I can't say for sure
[23:32] <micahg> chrisccoulson: is there another bug you know of tracking this issue?
[23:32] <debfx> micahg: I didn't know there was a bug report about it
[23:33] <chrisccoulson> micahg - no, and i generally don't track language pack bugs ;)
[23:33] <micahg> k, thanks, will hijack it then
[23:34] <micahg> chrisccoulson: it's hitting servers :(
[23:38] <chrisccoulson> hmm, i wish i hadn't started on the beer now
[23:41]  * micahg should prepare an update for natty
[23:42] <micahg> chrisccoulson: sorry :(
[23:42] <chrisccoulson> please don't make any changes without first fixing it in the firefox-trunk branch
[23:42] <chrisccoulson> i'm trying to avoid that, as i'm going to end up dropping changes if they don't go there first ;)
[23:43] <micahg> chrisccoulson: can I add it there once I get it uploaded?
[23:43] <micahg> it's going to take 19 hours to build
[23:44] <chrisccoulson> that's armel isn't it?
[23:44] <micahg> yep
[23:44] <chrisccoulson> turn off the test suite for this build, there's no point in running it again
[23:44] <chrisccoulson> that will get that down by a few hours
[23:45] <micahg> k, will do, still, can I upload this first and fix trunk later?
[23:45] <chrisccoulson> well, if you just remove the dependency entirely in the current version, i will add a breaks in trunk
[23:46] <chrisccoulson> we will want the breaks in future stable releases once we've figured out how it works though, so we avoid these constant issues where users upgrade without new language packs and trash their installs :)
[23:46] <chrisccoulson> but just removing the dependency is fine for now, as there's no strict relationship in the current version
[23:46] <micahg> k, well, I think we need the breaks here as well or they can have a 5 langpack with 4 installed
[23:46] <chrisccoulson> they can already have that, even with the dependency
[23:47] <chrisccoulson> it's not a new issue
[23:47] <micahg> ah, good point :)
[23:47] <chrisccoulson> the current nightly changes the loose dependency to a strict one
[23:47] <micahg> k, will get this uploaded then
[23:47] <chrisccoulson> and we want some sort of strict relationship in future stable versions
[23:47] <chrisccoulson> but we don't need it for this release
[23:57] <chrisccoulson> micahg, http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mozillateam/firefox/firefox-trunk.head/revision/890
[23:57] <chrisccoulson> i *think* that will do the job


[02:09] <studio-user276> Do anyone have tried to use Silhouette cameo in Ubuntu Studio ?
[02:21] <Croran> Paavi2_0: yes using lowlatency kernel and yes set rtprio. Ubuntu for some reason had it at 95. I set it to 99 per arch wiki.
[02:21] <Croran> OvenWerks: ubuntu lts 18.04.2
[02:38] <studio-user622> Do anyone have tried to use Silhouette cameo in Ubuntu Studio ?
[15:21] <hggdh> Eickmeyer: factoid for kxstudio added
[15:21] <Eickmeyer> hggdh: Thanks!
[18:20] <OvenWerks> Croran: so this is vanilla ubuntu? Have you installed and run ubuntustudio-controls to set your user in audio group and rt permissions? an install of jackd from the software application that comes with ubuntu (or even ubuntustudio) can  not install jackd correctly, but ubuntustudio-controls can fix that.
[18:20] <OvenWerks> After fixing it you would need to reboot.
[18:21] <OvenWerks> The latest ubuntustudio-controls from https://launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-ppa/+archive/ubuntu/backports would be best.


[09:38] <Tm_T> plop
[11:40] <Tm_T> K'day erUSUL
[11:40] <erUSUL> Tm_T: morning :)
[14:52] <cjohnston> uggh
[14:53] <bazhang> hah
[14:56] <cjohnston> you know what im talking about :-{
[14:56] <cjohnston> :-P
[14:57] <bazhang> helping the helpers help
[14:57]  * cjohnston wnats to help the helpers who are helpers to the helpers because helping the helpers about helping helpers is the most help that a helper can have
[14:57]  * erUSUL heads spins
[14:59] <cjohnston> erUSUL: did that help to clear up -irc-helpers for you?
[15:00] <erUSUL> i've never disputed the goals of the channel. i disputed the need for a separate channel to do it
[15:12] <m4v> cjohnston: your tongue twister is not helpful
[15:15]  * erUSUL wonders why do people think i'm opposed to help helpers help helpneeded users....
[15:27] <m4v> because you aren't working hard enough
[15:27] <IdleOne> hah
[15:28] <erUSUL> m4v: ouch!!!
[15:35] <m4v> erUSUL: pelicano won't be proud of you if you don't put some effort y'know
[15:37] <erUSUL> i'm doing my best; but i promise to work harder :)
[15:38] <m4v> :P
[16:23] <erUSUL> !k3bsetup
[16:23] <erUSUL> !find k3bsetup
[16:23] <ubot4> erUSUL: Please use http://packages.ubuntu.com/ to search for files
[16:23] <ubot2> erUSUL: Please use http://packages.ubuntu.com/ to search for files
[16:29] <Myrtti> any -de ops around?
[16:29] <GPenguin> hello
[16:29] <GPenguin> [17:27] <GPenguin> i have an issue with a chanop called dreamthief who obviously has problems with a social agenda
[16:29] <GPenguin> [17:28] <GPenguin> he got all bossy on #ubuntu-de-offtopic and after offending me i asked for his age
[16:29] <GPenguin> [17:28] <GPenguin> and as a result of this i am banned now
[16:29] <Myrtti> let's see if we've got any -de ops around
[16:30] <GPenguin> the whole conversation with this person was unpleasant and rude
[16:30] <GPenguin> and i am wondering why he used his irc access for that matter
[16:30] <GPenguin> bad enough that he is pushing people on some leisure chat thing
[16:31] <Myrtti> juliux seems to be away
[16:31] <IdleOne> GPenguin: the persons age really is not important. I won't say more as I don't know the entire situation.
[16:31] <GPenguin> and all i did was asking for his age because i was suspicious of an asperger child
[16:31] <IdleOne> besides not being in the channel
[16:31] <IdleOne> GPenguin: see now that is insulting
[16:31] <GPenguin> how?
[16:31] <IdleOne> that is probably why you got banned
[16:32] <GPenguin> guessing, arent we?
[16:32] <IdleOne> yes, absolutely guessing
[16:32] <IdleOne> but I will stay silent now :)
[16:32] <GPenguin> and you are aware that your contributions are not going to help?
[16:32] <GPenguin> ah, thanks
[16:33] <IdleOne> GPenguin: you are aware that your attitude is not helping either. you seem to me to have this holier then thou thing going on. get off that horse.
[16:33] <IdleOne> now I am done
[16:33] <GPenguin> IdleOne: speaking of attitude, huh :)
[16:34] <IdleOne> baiting aren't you?
[16:34] <GPenguin> the difference is that you have not been kicked in the arse. so i have no idea whats bugging _you_
[16:34]  * IdleOne has been to to pond and caught bigger fish then you
[16:34] <GPenguin> then shut up maybe as you announced it 2 times?
[16:34] <IdleOne> later dude
[16:34] <IdleOne> !guidelines > GPenguin
[16:34] <IdleOne> read the !coc factoid also
[16:35] <GPenguin> have you read them yourself and how would you label what you do here with me?
[16:35] <GPenguin> i would say ... you try to provoke me until i break rules
[16:35] <GPenguin> the point is - why
[16:36] <IdleOne> I tried to be polite, you came back at me with attitude. admittedly I could of responded differently but to tell you the truth you don't seem to know what Ubuntu means.
[16:36] <GPenguin> you still have the chance to be silent
[16:36] <GPenguin> its quite easy. all you have to do is stop right here
[16:38] <GPenguin> instead of feeding my anger about people who have a hard time to be social
[16:38] <m4v> hey
[16:38] <IdleOne> I apologize. My intention was not to make this worse
[16:38] <m4v> GPenguin: Would ya cut it until a -de op shows up?
[16:38] <GPenguin> because ironically, all i did on that offtopic channel was a piece of advice "buy a cheap router" and this dreamthief guy starting judging me for it
[16:39] <GPenguin> and when i asked for his age i got banned
[16:39] <GPenguin> the asperger comment was first aired here not on that channel
[16:40] <GPenguin> but hey, you know what ...
[16:41] <IdleOne> errr, I need to learn to mind my own business
[16:42] <IdleOne> sorry Myrtti
[16:42] <m4v> I don't think you did anything wrong
[16:42]  * erUSUL looks sympathetically to IdleOne
[16:43] <IdleOne> m4v: I could of handled the situation differently, I did not catalyse well at all there
[16:43] <IdleOne> I think he took my comments as attacks and in retrospect I can see how he might have
[16:44] <m4v> you can't catalyse every situation, this guy really seemed to take anything as an attack
[16:45] <IdleOne> true
[16:45] <IdleOne> that is how it seemed to me also
[18:41] <Tm_T> hi all, good evening
[20:01] <Myrtti> erUSUL: FYI he claims to be writing a book and apparently is doing research for it on IRC
[20:02] <erUSUL> ty
[20:03] <Myrtti> his questions seem like he's doing his homework though


[00:06] <tony-smlr> SMLR is live! Video http://youtu.be/-IPCVFDYThQ  Audio http://live.smlr.us:8000/streaming and chatting on Freenode Channel #smlr
[14:38] <cmaloney> Good morning
[15:16] <rick_h__> party
[15:17] <rick_h__> first trip out in the snow complete. Not a lot out there, inchish
[15:31] <cmaloney> Yeah, we're going to drive out to visit bro-in-law and see how bad it is.
[15:32] <cmaloney> Haven't canceled on Millpond yet.
[15:39] <rick_h__> cmaloney: ok, cool. Well I'm serious about driving around.
[15:40] <rick_h__> so just give me a call, we'll get the fireplace going tonight :)
[15:40] <cmaloney> Thanks. Will let you know once we get back from hospital.
[15:40] <rick_h__> yea, take care of family first
[15:40] <rick_h__> sorry about that
[15:41] <cmaloney> No worries. If the reason is what we think it is then it's both disturbing and a bit hilarious.
[15:41] <cmaloney> But I think he's fine.
[15:42] <rick_h__> well that's good then. I'm not up on my reasons for that stuff so sounds worrying from here.
[21:44] <cmaloney> Finally home
[21:44] <cmaloney> Also: done with snow, kthx.
[22:23] <jrwren> traffic really bad?
[22:23] <jrwren> roads bad?
[22:28] <rick_h__> wheeeee
[22:28] <rick_h__> roads are slushy messes. traffic wasn't much around here
[22:28] <rick_h__> and managed to get the traction light on 3 times
[23:06] <cmaloney> rick_h__: I think we got more around here.
[23:06] <cmaloney> I about slid into a subdivision trying to turn around.