[03:25] <teward[m]> *leaves a salt grenade in the corner for when Eickmeyer returns*
[03:33] <Eickmeyer[m]> Ooooo! Salt! *seasons his french fries with it*
[03:33] <Eickmeyer[m]> teward: What's up?
[03:35] <Eickmeyer[m]> Oh, nevermind. I see you *finally* accepted my invitation.
[03:38] <teward[m]> ye, well fun fact
[03:38] <teward[m]> copying data from one laptop to another is pain
[03:38] <teward[m]> especially when you have to take apart the OLD system, clean the NVMe drive of the soda stickies that broke the old one and brought it closer to its end, INSTALL the second NVMe stick into the new laptop...
[03:39] <Eickmeyer[m]> YIKES!
[03:39] <teward[m]> SHRINK the filesystem on the old NVMe from the old system, SHRINK the lvm2 partition...
[03:39] <teward[m]> ...MAKE SURE everything is in differently named VGs so LVM doesn't barf...
[03:39] <teward[m]> .. and then get everything functional again
[03:39] <teward[m]> oh, and changing my PGP keys, because smartcards are pain
[03:39] <Eickmeyer[m]> Ok, that makes my CPU cooler pump dying not seem so painful.
[03:39] <teward[m]> ye but i have a BRAND NEW laptop
[03:40] <teward[m]> and it has two NVMe slots, so it came with a 1TB I ordered.
[03:40] <teward[m]> I put the old machine's 1TB in
[03:40] <teward[m]> and it's humming
[03:40] <Eickmeyer[m]> Oh cool!
[03:40] <teward[m]> but ye i was just being annoying like I normally am
[03:40] <teward[m]> ... without being too much of a nuisance ;)
[03:40] <Eickmeyer[m]> hehe
[03:41] <Eickmeyer[m]> Yeah, I knew something was off when my CPU started throttling for no good reason.  I love that about the Kubuntu Focus XE that I have (even though it's the prototype and the keys aren't exactly labeled correctly due to experimentation). Iris XE is nice.
[03:43] <teward[m]> yes, and it's a good thing it's out of the box kernel support heh
[03:44] <Eickmeyer[m]> Yeah, that's a great thing.
[03:44] <teward[m]> the USB-C only thing though.........
[03:44] <teward[m]> not the best.
[03:44] <teward[m]> because now i need to get my keys (re)signed for Debian again and switched on on debian keyring
[03:44] <teward[m]> (because old GPG key on USB-A card is... mbweogqneig on USB-C)
[03:45] <Eickmeyer[m]> Oh, we just released a desktop NUC with Iris Xe graphics: https://kfocus.org/spec/spec-nx.html
[03:45] <teward> cool so you can send me one for free to trial run it into the ground until it burns xD
[03:46] <teward> loljk
[03:46] <Eickmeyer[m]> HAHAHAHA I'd have to talk to Mike about that. XD
[03:46] <Eickmeyer[m]> Do you have a USB-A to C adapter?
[03:47] <teward> ye but something about the A-to-C adapter the yubikey system doesn't like.
[03:47] <teward> the advantage here though is
[03:47] <teward> the original key isn't dead, and is still secure
[03:47] <teward> ... i just need a DD to sign the new key, so I can go through the replacement procedure.
[03:47] <teward> maybe i'll bother Robie...
[03:47] <Eickmeyer[m]> Try flipping it.
[03:47] <teward> also yes i've got like 6 chat system windows here
[03:48] <teward> so i'm hopping xD
[03:48] <Eickmeyer[m]> Haha, yeah, I do that from time to time.
[03:48] <Eickmeyer[m]> Seriously though, USB 2.0 only works one-way with USB C for some weird reason.
[03:53] <teward> i think this is 3.0 though
[04:05] <Eickmeyer[m]> Strange. I thought Youbikeys were 2.0. \
[04:43] <teward> oh the adapter has worked in both directions - the adapter is designed to be an OTG adapter
[04:43] <teward> and works *fine* in either orientation
[04:43] <teward> it's just something stupid about the fact it's going via an adapter that 22.04 doesn't like
[04:43] <teward> anyways, sleep time is upon me.  </offline>
[14:49] <OvenWerks> Eickmeyer[m]: Just looking at your "M2". In particular the processor with 14 cores and 20 threads.
[14:50] <OvenWerks> While I do not have the money to buy such a machine (2.5k+ is out of range), The fact that at least some of the cores are single thread is interesting.
[14:52] <OvenWerks> I guess my question is along the lines of: how easy is it to run a set of applications on the 8c/8t side of things only?
[14:54] <RikMills> I am curious if that is even possible, as I have an M2 now
[14:55] <OvenWerks> RikMills: I think it is possible, basically start a pocess that grabs a set of cores and all it's sub processes will also run on those cores
[14:56] <OvenWerks> This is not optimal really as splitting the GUI threads from real time threads would do even better
[14:57] <OvenWerks> but it is better than having a real time thread sharing a core with something else via hyperthread
[15:01] <OvenWerks> I think a lot of it depends on Intel's reasoning for splitting it's core complement up in this fashion.
[15:02] <OvenWerks> A lot of the real time linux kernel code comes from Intel
[15:10] <Eickmeyer[m]> OvenWerks: 2.5k? The NX is only $695 USD.
[15:11] <OvenWerks> Eickmeyer[m]: The M2, the 2k5 would be CAD
[15:13] <Eickmeyer[m]> Right. To be fair, it's a very, very nice machine. I have an M1, which is older obviously, but is definitely a good machine.
[15:13] <Eickmeyer[m]> But the XE and NX are good too. I've successfully run real-time processes on the XE, which spec-wise, is identical to the NX in many ways, just in laptop form.
[15:14]  * OvenWerks is not judging a price point, just pointing out real life :)
[15:14] <Eickmeyer[m]> Yeah, that's fair.
[15:15] <Eickmeyer[m]> The CPU cooler on my self-built desktop machine died yesterday, so I'm back to using my M1 as my main machine.
[15:16] <OvenWerks> The M1 is not listed on the web page.
[15:16] <Eickmeyer[m]> No, the M1 was succeeded by the M2. The M2 is currently in its 4th generation.
[15:16]  * OvenWerks thinks "M1" is confusing... there is an Apple M1 too
[15:17] <Eickmeyer[m]> To be fair, KFocus had M1 first.
[15:18] <OvenWerks> and to be fair, apple, with their ability to be creative could have come up with a real name.
[15:18] <Eickmeyer[m]> RIGHT???
[15:19] <Eickmeyer[m]> M1 and M2 were meant to be "Mark I" and "Mark II", but internal vernacular kept going "Model 1" and "Model 2" so we were like, "Screw it."
[18:19] <BrianHechinger[m> Eickmeyer: What pump? I really need to take mine apart and clean it, but I keep putting it off hoping I'll magically get the money to buy the GPU block and second radiator. :-D
[18:20] <BrianHechinger[m> Also, the M2 does look pretty dope.
[19:05] <OvenWerks> Eickmeyer[m]: Interesting, the i7-12700H single thread cores are called Efficiency-cores (refering to the M2). While the 6 HT cores are called Performance-cores.
[19:07] <OvenWerks> Eickmeyer[m]: Interesting, the i7-12700H single thread cores are called Efficiency-cores (refering to the M2). While the 6 HT cores are called Performance-cores.
[19:07] <OvenWerks> opps.
[19:10] <OvenWerks> considering we turn off boost for real time anyway. That is not much of a sacrifice. Getting jackd to run on one of the Efficiency-cores or a few might work out really well. Jackd works by callbacks.
 "Eickmeyer: What pump? I really..." <- The coolant pump on my CPU cooler.
[19:45] <Eickmeyer[m]> OvenWerks: Honestly, I've had more latency and more xruns when turning off boost and running it on performance. It pegs the processor at full speed.
[19:46] <BrianHechinger[m> Eickmeyer[m]: Yes, what model silly. :-D
[19:47] <Eickmeyer[m]> BrianHechinger[m: Oh, it was a generic all-in-one liquid cooler. I went for a Cooler Master this time around to replace it.
[19:47] <Eickmeyer[m]> Let me see f I can get the info.
[19:49] <BrianHechinger[m> AIOs are easy. I'm regretting not using them this time around. :-D
[19:50] <Eickmeyer[m]> Yeah. I liked it. Ran OK for a year and then yesterday I noticed thermal throttling with 90C temperatures pegged. The system couldn't sense any RPMs from the pump, so that told me it was done.
[19:51] <BrianHechinger[m> only a year, ouch.
[19:52] <Eickmeyer[m]> Yeah.
[19:52] <teward[m]> Eickmeyer[m]: so basically you were trying to save cash and failed :p
[19:52] <Eickmeyer[m]> teward[m]: Correct.
[19:52] <teward[m]> *scolds @Eickmeyer for obvious reasons*
[19:52] <BrianHechinger[m> I have an EK Phoenix MLC on the 1080 that's now in the kid's computer. I've had that thing for 5 years now and it still runs great. :-D
[19:53] <Eickmeyer[m]> teward[m]: Hey, this time I went Cooler Master, which is a way better brand than the generic one.
[19:53] <teward[m]> truth
[19:53] <teward[m]> but i will still scold you for not doing that in the first place xD
[19:54] <BrianHechinger[m> Good man, teward. Don't let him off easy. :-D
[19:54] <Eickmeyer[m]> I will say the Cooler Master this time is only a few $$ more than the generic now. A year ago... nope.
[19:55] <teward[m]> Brian Hechinger oh, Eickmeyer here knows that I'm one of the people who won't let him off easy :P
[19:55] <teward[m]> he also knows i'm chaotic so :p
[19:56] <BrianHechinger[m> perfect! :)
[19:57] <Eickmeyer[m]> And likewise. teward knows that he has to be able to take what he dishes.
[19:57] <teward[m]> which is where the Chaotic part comes in ;)
[19:57] <teward[m]> *sips on his coffee*
[19:59] <Eickmeyer[m]> Brian Hechinger: teward is a bit overcaffienated, which is where the chaos comes from.
[19:59] <teward[m]> heheheh
[19:59] <teward[m]> caffeine is my lifeblood.
[19:59] <teward[m]> prick me and i bleed coffee not blood
[19:59] <BrianHechinger[m> Overcaffeinated LYFE
[20:00] <Eickmeyer[m]> It works great until you get diagnosed with chronic migraines. (yes, that's me).
[20:00] <BrianHechinger[m> My wife has those
[20:00] <BrianHechinger[m> That's rough
[20:00] <Eickmeyer[m]> Yeah. It does some weird stuff.
[20:01] <BrianHechinger[m> My wife never got auras until after she got pregnant with our second child. Now she gets them so bad she is practically blind in one eye. Before that though it was just the pain.
[20:02] <Eickmeyer[m]> Oh boy. Yeah, never got auras. I just get stabbing, localized pain randomly, and just constant pain everywhere else if left unchecked.
[20:03] <BrianHechinger[m> she misses those days. :-D
[20:05] <Eickmeyer[m]> My wife, when she got migraines, it looks like she's having a seizure.
[20:07] <BrianHechinger[m> that has to be scary
[20:10] <BrianHechinger[m> Ugh, why is synapse giving me such a hard time. Maybe I'll just wait for dendrite. :-D
[20:21] <Eickmeyer[m]> Brian Hechinger: synapse? dendrite? I feel like I should know what these are, but they're escaping me atm.
[20:54] <arraybolt3[m]> Eickmeyer: Man, that sounds crummy.
[20:55] <arraybolt3[m]> OvenWerks: If you really wanted to give Intel 12th gen a try, you might look at Framework laptops - they're fairly cheap (a lot cheaper than an M2, that's for sure) and at least looks like they have good specs behind them.
[20:56]  * arraybolt3[m] slaps teward with a custom-made super smacker set to 700 RPM
[21:22] <BrianHechinger[m> Eickmeyer: Matrix servers
[21:22] <BrianHechinger[m> Friend of mine got a framework. He really likes it.
[21:23] <Eickmeyer[m]> Brian Hechinger: Ah. teward and To Setto Setto (UTC+2) are running their own.
[21:24] <teward[m]> > * <@arraybolt3:matrix.org> slaps teward with a custom-made super smacker set to 700 RPM
[21:24] <teward[m]> *slaps arraybolt3 with an orbital strike package that hits them at mach 4*
[21:24]  * arraybolt3 scolds teward[m] for using Matrix
[21:26] <teward[m]> *yawns* i have better things to do than fight right now.  Like sleep, I'm tired.
[21:26] <BrianHechinger[m> I'm using hosted at EMS and I want to stop paying for it now that I have this fairly powerful and reasonably cheap kubernetes cluster to put things in.
[22:27] <OvenWerks> arraybolt3[m]: Only idle musing. To be honest, I am not sure what the best kind of cpu for audio is any more. However, just thinking about how one might make one or two cores work for audio while leaving everything else go has given me some ideas that might work with any processor.
[22:37] <OvenWerks> Eickmeyer[m]: performance pegs the cpu at full speed yes but it should have lower cpu use. I don't know about the AMD chip but I have done pretty good with performance/no boost here. I have been able to run jack at 16/2 (.7ms) with no xruns over three days.
[22:38] <arraybolt3[m]> Eickmeyer: How much testing has been being done on Studio Focal? Would you like me to take on testing on that end in preparation for the point release?
[22:38] <Eickmeyer[m]> OvenWerks: When I'm running Ardour or Mixbus, I usually do pretty well by setting it to all but one CPU, which is the default.
[22:38] <OvenWerks> Eickmeyer[m]: I do only have single thread cores which does make a difference. In the days of performance/ondemand, performance actually used less power than ondemend
[22:39] <Eickmeyer[m]> arraybolt3: I haven't been able to get to it with my hardware issues, meetings, and dayjob.
[22:40] <arraybolt3[m]> OK. I'll do a bit of virtualized smoke testing real quick, and will take on the brunt of the testing once the RC ISOs start popping up.
[22:40] <Eickmeyer[m]> OvenWerks: My M1 has 6 dual thread cores, my desktop machine has 8 single-thread cores and has much lower latency, but does tend to lag without the intel boost.
[22:41] <Eickmeyer[m]> arraybolt3[m]: Sounds good. Remember, that one is Xfce, so expect it to feel different.
[22:43] <OvenWerks> ah right, I was going to fire up my focal partition and update it but I think mine is Studio on top of kubuntu
[22:44] <OvenWerks> (for focal)
[22:46] <OvenWerks> With Ardour/MB, depending on the track layout, the audio may all be one one core anyway, with the other cores being used for gui and other non-realtime threads
[22:46] <Eickmeyer[m]> OvenWerks: iirc, it is.
[22:47] <OvenWerks> Ardour generally runs 30 some odd threads.
[22:48] <Eickmeyer[m]> That would require some deep inspection. When I'm looking at htop while running MB or Ardour, it is running several threads and they're all over the cores.
[22:49] <OvenWerks> yeah it may not be too picky about non-RT threads


[01:22] <Unit193> Pici: Ping?  PM?
[01:23] <Pici> Unit193: pong, I forgot about it.
[01:23] <Pici> Whats the account again?
[01:23] <Pici> Sorry, its been a busy day ;)
[01:24] <Unit193> Pici: Was wondering if it'd be an issue.
[01:25] <Pici> Unit193: Is there anywhere else that bot is active?
[01:25] <Unit193> Yes, but you'll notice I'm not asking for an ubuntu cloak.
[01:26] <Pici> Unit193: Oh. I misread.
[01:27] <Pici> No issue for it having a different cloak then.
[01:27] <Unit193> Didn't think there was.
[01:43] <Unit193> Got it done.


[01:34] <brousch> This would be hilarious if it weren't our own air force http://yro.slashdot.org/story/13/01/04/2147239/us-military-signs-modernization-deal-with-microsoft
[03:04] <widox> Blazeix: yeah, I think so
[03:04] <widox> its pretty close by to me :)
[14:38] <brousch> You brave men live in between #1 and #2! http://www.businessinsider.com/the-25-most-dangerous-cities-in-america-2012-10?op=1
[15:15] <_stink_> it's a cozy place.
[16:07] <snap-l> Love the picture they used for Oakland, Calif.
[18:07] <snap-l> https://github.com/Sagelt/Dungeon-World
[23:19] <snap-l> https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-WtU2u4Z8RDo/UOit9wA1vPI/AAAAAAAADRk/Prguea0W6Kw/s569/13+-+1


[12:10] <kklimonda> where can I read the discussion about new behaviour of the app menu in natty (i.e. it being hidden until use moves mouse over it)?
[12:11] <spikeb> no clue, i didn't know there was one
[12:11] <kklimonda> or maybe the question should be - has it actually been accepted by the Canonical UX team?
[12:12] <spikeb> I would assume so, the coders are working off designs from the UX team AFAIK
[12:12] <kklimonda> not only do I have to move my mouse over longer distance to get to the new menu position, but now I have no idea where should I point at before I move it..
[12:13] <kklimonda> so I end up moving mouse, and then reading menu positions..
[12:13] <kklimonda> and then moving it again because for some reason I can never blindly move it in the right direction.. I wonder why..
[13:34] <coz_> good day
[13:58] <AbsintheSyringe> I want to have Unity repackaged for Debian, however can anyone let me know what's Unity Team email address?
[13:58] <kklimonda> AbsintheSyringe: good question :)
[13:59] <AbsintheSyringe> kklimonda, everyone's telling me that :)
[13:59] <AbsintheSyringe> I could put 5 upstream authors but that would be kinda lame
[13:59] <AbsintheSyringe> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~unity-team/unity/trunk/annotate/head:/AUTHORS
[13:59] <kklimonda> AbsintheSyringe: can you ask it tomorrow (or generally, during the working week)? As you have probably already noticed most of the Unity team (as well as Canonical in general) aren't here during weekends :)
[14:00] <AbsintheSyringe> kklimonda, okay :)
[14:00] <kklimonda> AbsintheSyringe: ubuntu package do have all 5 (or even 6) authors mentioned in the changelog
[14:01] <kklimonda> d/copyright*
[14:04] <AbsintheSyringe> kklimonda, yea, but I'm sent this as ITP in Debian, and I want to have the Upstream Author field as : Unity Team<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[14:05] <AbsintheSyringe> at the moment I even thought of putting ayatana email but I guess I'll just wait till tomorrow
[14:06] <kklimonda> AbsintheSyringe: is the Upstream Author field supposed to point to the point of contact for the given project?
[14:07] <AbsintheSyringe> yep
[14:07] <AbsintheSyringe> that's why I don't want to have 5 authors listed
[14:07] <kklimonda> AbsintheSyringe: either ayatana or ayatana-dev ML would fit that description as both are read by Unity developers.
[14:07] <AbsintheSyringe> there you, I thought well then :)
[14:07] <kklimonda> AbsintheSyringe: (and by sabdfl, who is the person who makes decisions about the project)
[14:08] <AbsintheSyringe> also I was told to join ayatana team in debian http://wiki.debian.org/Teams/pkg-ayatana
[14:08] <kklimonda> so I guess ayatana (which is afair more avtive ML between those two) is a good upstream contact address
[14:09] <AbsintheSyringe> ok, so could I have ayatana-dev email address?
[14:09] <AbsintheSyringe> or even "regular" one could do I guess
[14:10] <kklimonda> ayatana-dev (mailing list is for technical discussions, including implementation questions) is<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[14:10] <kklimonda> ayatana (mailing list is for design related discussions) is<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[14:11] <AbsintheSyringe> so which one do you advise me to go with? this is about implementation into debian after all
[14:13] <AbsintheSyringe> personally I'm thinking to go just with -dev
[14:13] <kklimonda> AbsintheSyringe: ayatana-dev would be a better bet imo - it's more technical
[14:13] <AbsintheSyringe> kklimonda, right on, tnx :)
[18:04] <deltrem> When is the first beta coming?
[18:06] <deltrem> the first beta of Ubuntu with Unity
[18:06] <deltrem> When is it coming?
[18:09] <deltrem> Please, tell me the release date of the first beta of Ubuntu with Unity! Thanks.
[18:10] <deltrem> If there's no release date, then tell me when you think release date will be.
[18:10] <deltrem> *the release date
[18:11] <deltrem> ok, I'm going to wait
[18:18] <kklimonda> !schedule
[18:18] <deltrem> I know, I know... but the beta!
[18:18] <kklimonda> deltrem: you will find the detailed schedule somewhere on those pages
[20:57] <coz_> apparenlty  VBE mode auto detection breaks  for my 7300gt   ..where should I ask for this.. otherwise impossible to install natty and reboot
[20:58] <coz_> this card needs to be blacklisted  for autodetection


[02:01]  * spstarr is sadly addicted to Second Life ;(
[02:01] <spstarr> if I could make real $ out of it that would be nice :-)
[02:01] <spstarr> maybe start a Kubuntu World
[02:54] <shtylman__> Riddell: waiting for nixternal for feedback on the slide content
[02:54] <shtylman__> Riddell: otherwise ready to merge
[04:21] <ScottK> rgreening: If I need to sponsor arora, I can, but since it'll probably be Riddell approving the FFe, he can probably just upload it.
[04:21] <rgreening> ah, true 'nuff
[04:21] <rgreening> :)
[04:22] <rgreening> I'll finish the FFe bug tomorrow.. and poke Riddell about it
[05:07] <nixternal> anyone have a PolicyKit Qt/KDE Python example anywhere?
[05:09] <ScottK> userconfig doesn't use it, does it?
[05:09] <nixternal> hrmm, let me check
[05:10] <JontheEchidna> nope, it launches in a kcmshell through kdesudo
[05:10] <ScottK> Any others?
[05:11] <JontheEchidna> oh! jockey has it
[05:11] <ScottK> Not the KDE bits I don't think, but at least it's Python.
[05:13] <JontheEchidna> hmm, yeah...
[05:15] <JontheEchidna> I think until kauth gets official bindings one must implement it in pure policykit, which will then call the kde or gnome frontend where appropriate
[05:19] <nixternal> just looked through jockey, no polkit kde stuff...let me look a little deeper into it
[05:20] <nixternal> jockey uses kdesu :/
[05:20] <JontheEchidna> jockey-backend uses polkit
[05:21] <JontheEchidna> which makes one wonder why it is still launched with kdesudo
[05:22] <nixternal> there is a comment in jockey-kde explaining why...and the reason...are you ready?
[05:22] <nixternal> WE HAVEN'T UPDATED JOCKEY IN A WHILE :D
[05:22] <JontheEchidna> lol
[05:22] <nixternal> ya, the comment says "Because KDE doesn't have PolicyKit yet"
[05:22] <JontheEchidna> I sorta ran out of proprietary hardware that worked with this computer...
[05:22] <nixternal> or something to that effect
[05:23] <JontheEchidna> hum, then I guess the policykit-gnome | policykit-kde dependency is just there so we don't have to drag in policykit-gnome in kubuntuland
[05:26] <JontheEchidna> looks like kde 4.3 pykde does have polkitqt bindings
[05:26] <JontheEchidna> !!!
[05:26] <JontheEchidna> with an example
[05:28] <JontheEchidna> bedtime tho...
[05:29] <nixternal> derr, I should have remembered that...I was looking at it the other day :/
[07:00]  * Sime_ doesn't quite understand the difference between polkitqt and KAuth. Is KAuth KDEified polkitqt stuff?
[09:30] <freinhard> hi!
[09:31] <freinhard> can't use knetworkmanager (0.1~svn1017841-0ubuntu2~jaunty4) to connect to encrypted wireless networks. works for wired networks and unencrypted networks.
[09:34] <ghostcube> morning
[10:22] <apachelogger> ewww kamoso copies kipi plugins to own source
[10:22] <apachelogger> not that copy + plugin combo
[10:22] <apachelogger> *note even
[10:23] <Riddell> what's kamoso?
[10:28] <Nightrose> new webcam app
[10:29] <Nightrose> quote from the website: "A webcam application to attract sweet girls to kde :)"
[10:29]  * Nightrose shakes head
[10:29] <Nightrose> (yes I already emailes Aleix about it)
[10:29] <Nightrose> *emailed
[11:20] <apachelogger> Nightrose: lol, nothing for me then, there is no one sweeter than you :*
[11:20] <Nightrose> apachelogger: :*
[11:21] <apachelogger> Nightrose: wanna write another mail?
[11:21] <Nightrose> apachelogger: I'd rather not as I need to hurry - gotta go to university and get some code written
[11:23]  * apachelogger should be coding too :{
[11:23] <apachelogger> :P
[11:23] <apachelogger> I have no idea why I never hit the P with qwerty
[12:09] <Riddell> neversfelde: new KOffice beta out, are you able to do the packaging again?
[12:09] <neversfelde> Riddell: yes
[12:09] <Riddell> neversfelde: in unstable/koffice-2.0.82 on ktown
[12:10]  * apachelogger tries kamoso
[12:11] <apachelogger> btw, did I mention that some LP pages ... especially the new ones ... dont fit on a netbook screen?
[12:13] <Riddell> I don't believe you did
[12:14] <apachelogger> must be $fixed, though I am not sure if it is misrendering in konqueror, or bad layouting in launchpad, or both
[12:15] <apachelogger> hm, it appears gdebi does not update the cache before installing :S
[12:16] <Riddell> apt programmes generally don't
[12:17] <apachelogger> is there a special logical behind that?
[12:21] <apachelogger> if kamoso was not using vlc and would fit on a netbook screen shipping it would be a good idea
[12:21] <apachelogger> oh and if it was not code-copying kipi plugins
[12:30] <apachelogger> any motu around?
[12:41] <Riddell> apachelogger: what's needed?
[12:41] <apachelogger> Riddell: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/kamoso
[12:44] <Riddell> apachelogger: what is vlc needed for?
[12:44] <apachelogger> Riddell: webcam access
[12:45] <apachelogger> the app actually does all the interaction via vlc
[12:45] <apachelogger> blog post from planet kde claims it is easier to use than what kopete uses
[12:45] <Riddell> I've never got kopete to work
[12:45] <Riddell> for webcam
[12:46] <apachelogger> depends a lot on the webcam driver I suppose, only the webcam in my dell mini works out of the box, both in kopete and kamoso
[12:47] <apachelogger> though I must admit via vlc it seems to work a lot better
[12:48] <Riddell> means it can't go into main alas
[12:49] <apachelogger> I know :S
[12:49] <apachelogger> maybe we should poke upstream a bit ;)
[12:50] <Nightrose> webcam works like a charm here on eeepc
[12:50] <apachelogger> otherwise we would have a very nice cheese replacement
[12:50] <Nightrose> now if only kopete could actually use it in a protocol...
[12:50] <shtylman> apachelogger: I made the package...waiting for merge into trunk
[12:50] <Riddell> ooh shtylman
[12:50] <shtylman> howdy :)
[12:51] <apachelogger> shtylman++
[12:51] <apachelogger> Nightrose: shouldnt it work like in yahoo and wlm?
[12:51] <apachelogger> bzr needs kde integration
[12:51] <Nightrose> apachelogger: last i tried none of them supported it
[12:52]  * shtylman runs off to work .. leave messages will respond :)
[12:52] <apachelogger> Nightrose: cant tell, I am only using jabber and due to lack of jingle support that doesnt work for sure :D
[12:54]  * apachelogger notes that kde playground could use a cleanup
[12:54] <apachelogger> way too many apps that have not been touched for years
[12:56] <apachelogger> Riddell: thx for the revu :)
[13:06] <Riddell> hmm, someone sent me an e-mail about playground recently
[13:13] <apachelogger> Riddell: http://paste.ubuntu.com/269118/ what do you think about this structure for kds?
[13:14] <apachelogger> the thing with nepomuk is that we still do not have a meaningful backend, especially none that works reliably well and doesn't eat all mem in combo with amarok and akonadi
[13:15] <apachelogger> so i for one would remove the search bar from dolphin and turn off nepomuk once more
[13:17] <Riddell> it's turned off by default anyway is it no?
[13:17] <apachelogger> dunno
[13:17] <apachelogger> we need to remove the search bar though
[13:17] <Riddell> yes dolphin search bar is something we should look at, I don't know if there's a config option to get rid of it
[13:18] <Riddell> apachelogger: that structure makes sense
[13:18] <apachelogger> ok, implementing that and then taking a look at dolphin
[13:22] <apachelogger> Riddell: btw, I am going to revise the version scheme... from 9.10.18 to 9.10.18ubuntu19, starting with 10.04 we should be using 10.04ubuntuN then
[13:22] <apachelogger> makes lintian shut up about NMU stuff and makes dch -i work properly
[13:33] <apachelogger> nhandler, obama: bug 427841
[13:34] <Quintasan> hiho
[13:36] <ScottK> apachelogger: Just override the lintian warning.  The ubuntuX revisions on Ubuntu only native packages are ugly.  It's also, IIRC, against policy.
[13:37] <apachelogger> ScottK: dch -i still fails to increment though
[13:37] <Riddell> I don't think there's any policy against it
[13:42] <ScottK> Looks like you're right
[13:42]  * ScottK recalls it being discussed.
[13:44] <ScottK> Riddell: How do you feel about updating the qt4-x11 backport in Hardy with the latest from Intrepid to catch the security fix that just went out?
[13:45] <Riddell> ScottK: that would make sense
[13:46] <ScottK> Anyone care to upload that to a PPA so people can test it?
[13:46] <ScottK> Staging, I would guess?
[13:56] <apachelogger> Setting up kubuntu-default-settings (1:9.10.18ubuntu19) ...
[13:57] <ScottK> I'd rather we fix debchange than start doing revisions like that.
[13:58] <apachelogger> ScottK: if you fix it :P
[13:59] <ScottK> apachelogger: Unfortunately it's implemented in Perl.
[13:59] <apachelogger> ruby > perl
[13:59] <apachelogger> ScottK: should poke nhandler I suppose
[13:59] <ScottK> Good idea.
[13:59]  * ScottK looks for nhandler....
[13:59] <nhandler> Need something?
[13:59] <apachelogger> Riddell: do you happen to know why the linking for hidden-media and hal stuff is done in postinst manually?
[14:00] <apachelogger> nhandler: FFe most importantly :P
[14:00] <nhandler> Do you have a bug number apachelogger ?
[14:00] <apachelogger> nhandler: bug 427841
[14:00] <ScottK> nhandler: Yeah.  We'd like to add an option to dch to not use ubuntuX revisions on Ubuntu only native packages (manybe -un)
[14:00] <apachelogger> you really should read backlog a bit :P
[14:01] <Riddell> apachelogger: packages shouldn't install to /media or /home directly, they may not exist or may be something weird
[14:02] <apachelogger> they will if the package installs it :P
[14:02] <apachelogger> but the hidden stuff makes sense since it does ! -e
[14:02] <Riddell> apachelogger: does the hidden stuff still get used?
[14:02] <apachelogger> don't get the hal stuff though
[14:02] <apachelogger> Riddell: nope
[14:02] <apachelogger> but it also installs .directory with icons for media and home
[14:02] <apachelogger> which is nice IMHO
[14:03] <apachelogger> hidden requires a patch, which of course was not pushed/accepted upstream in KDE 3 times
[14:03] <Riddell> it does still get used
[14:03] <ScottK> Installing into /home doesn't work so well for the multi-user case either.
[14:04] <Riddell> oh not the hidden, that can go
[14:04] <apachelogger> right :)
[14:04] <apachelogger> ScottK: it is /home not /home/*
[14:04] <ScottK> Ah
[14:04] <apachelogger> it really just happens to have /home have an icon when viewing /
[14:05] <apachelogger> s/have/make I suppose
[14:05] <Riddell> not sure about the hal stuff, maybe we didn't want to depend on hal for some reason.  at this stage in the cycle I wouldn't want it changed though
[14:06] <ScottK> Given the wild boot stuff Keybuk is still doing, I think we can get away with blaming any problems on him.
[14:07] <apachelogger> Riddell: well, it is nothing but a policy file for hal, so that would not introduce a dep
[14:07] <apachelogger> not going to change it anyway
[14:07] <apachelogger> ScottK: lol
[14:09] <apachelogger> nhandler: thanks for the ack, so now we need a fixed dch :)
[14:10] <ScottK> Devscripts needs a merge anyway since Debian just announced a uscan vulnerability.
[14:10] <Quintasan> hmm, what should I put in license when I have files with: GPL, GPL-2+, LGPL-2+?
[14:11] <Riddell> "GPL" is meaningless it needs a version
[14:11] <ScottK> Quintasan: Does the GPL reference refer to GPL with no version or perhaps to GPL 1?
[14:11]  * apachelogger notes that mvo used GPL in all of his software apachelogger came across recently :P
[14:11] <Quintasan> Riddell: nepomuk-kde contains some files which list "GPL"
[14:11] <Quintasan> ./nepomukutils/kcompletionitem.h: GPL
[14:11]  * ScottK notes we have packages in the archive still licensed under GPL 1.
[14:11] <ScottK> Most notably Perl.
[14:12] <apachelogger> good ol perl
[14:12] <apachelogger> ruby is still superior :P
[14:12] <apachelogger> much more worth as well
[14:12] <Quintasan> I wonder if I should make a pin for apachelogger
[14:13] <apachelogger> Riddell, ScottK: so what version should I be uploading with?
[14:13] <Riddell> Quintasan: http://websvn.kde.org/trunk/playground/base/nepomuk-kde/nepomukutils/kcompletionitem.h?revision=1012377&view=markup  that's GPL2 or later
[14:13] <apachelogger> hm
[14:13] <apachelogger> Quintasan: a pin?
[14:13] <ScottK> Ruby lacks many of Perls write only features, however.
[14:13] <Riddell> apachelogger: I'd go with adding ubuntuX
[14:13] <apachelogger> ok
[14:14] <ScottK> Grumble.
[14:14] <Quintasan> apachelogger: s/pin/badge
[14:14] <Quintasan> apachelogger: http://www.digibarn.com/collections/badges-pins/stan-veit/ibm-pc-badge.jpg something like this :P
[14:14] <Riddell> Quintasan: so it's GPL-2+, put that in the copyright file and also list that some files are LGPL-2+ below it
[14:14] <Riddell> Quintasan: but have you spoked to the guy I CCed to kubuntu-devel?
[14:15] <Quintasan> Riddell: nope, I'll talk with him ASAP
[14:15] <apachelogger> Quintasan: saying "ruby is superior to good ol perl and much more worth"?
[14:16] <Riddell> Quintasan: by the way Dooble needs packaging if you're in a mood for it :)
[14:18] <apachelogger> meh
[14:18] <Quintasan> apachelogger: I don't think it would be safe to walk around with this badge, some perl lovers might be too fanatic :P
[14:18] <apachelogger> Riddell: the seach toolbar stuff is also stored in the qbytearray thing
[14:18] <apachelogger> ugly I must say
[14:18] <Quintasan> Dooble? Hurr, I'll look into it
[14:18] <Riddell> qbytearray thing?
[14:19] <apachelogger> Quintasan: well, since they must have been superio hackers back in the days of 1989 they are wau too old to do anything to me :P
[14:20] <apachelogger> Riddell:
[14:20] <apachelogger>  State=AAAA/wAAAAD9AAAAAwAAAAAAAABbAAABvvwCAAAAAvsAAAAWAGYAbwBsAGQAZQByAHMARABvAGMAawAAAAAA/////wAAABkBAAAC+wAAABQAcABsAGEAYwBlAHMARABvAGMAawEAAAA2AAABvgAAAFUBAAACAAAAAQAAAK4AAAG+/AIAAAAB+wAAABAAaQBuAGYAbwBEAG8AYwBrAQAAADYAAAG+AAABAAEAAAIAAAAD///////////8AQAAAAH7AAAAGAB0AGUAcgBtAGkAbgBhAGwARABvAGMAawAAAAAA/////wAAAE0BAAAFAAAB3wAAAb4AAAAEAAAABAAAAAgAAAAI/AAAAAEAAAACAAAAAgAAABYAbQBhAGkAbgBUAG8AbwBsAEIAYQByAQAAAAD/////AAAAAAAAAAAA
[14:20] <apachelogger> AAAaAHMAZQBhAHIAYwBoAFQAbwBvAGwAQgBhAHIAAAACGv////8AAAAAAAAAAA==
[14:20] <Riddell> ug
[14:20] <apachelogger> exactly :D
[14:22] <nhandler> apachelogger: If you want, file a bug and assign me to it, and I can fix up dch later today
[14:23] <JontheEchidna> oh, I remember some business for the meeting, heh
[14:23] <JontheEchidna> bug 423877
[14:23] <JontheEchidna> ^upstream request
[14:23] <apachelogger> ScottK: please file bug report for nhandler
[14:25] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: that can probably go although I'd like to compare what kwin does and what the compiz script does and check what the differences are
[14:25] <Quintasan> Riddell: I can't find a stable tarball, should I package SVN?
[14:26]  * apachelogger trusts marting without thinking
[14:26] <apachelogger> Riddell: should I turn composite on in kds?
[14:26] <apachelogger> while I am on it
[14:26] <Tonio_> hi there
[14:26] <Quintasan> Tonio_: \o
[14:26] <Tonio_> anyone working on arora 0.9 ?
[14:26] <Riddell> apachelogger: it should be the defalt, which is let kwin work out if it can go on
[14:26] <ScottK> Tonio_: rgreening was
[14:27] <Tonio_> ScottK: kk, I'll ping in case he needs help...
[14:27] <ScottK> Tonio_: I think it's in his PPA already
[14:27] <Tonio_> ScottK: we'll have to drop the adblock support for now as porting the patch won't be easy
[14:27] <Tonio_> ScottK: hum, oki I'll have a look
[14:27] <apachelogger> seems so
[14:27] <apachelogger> whatever happened to the cubecap though?
[14:27] <rgreening> yep
[14:27] <rgreening> got it built and updated locally and in my PPA.
[14:27] <rgreening> Just need to update the FFe bug today.
[14:27] <Tonio_> ScottK: good point is that the adblock proposal as been accepted :)
[14:27] <JontheEchidna> whoa, lightspeed typing from rgreening
[14:28] <rgreening> hahah
[14:28] <rgreening> "juiced lightening"
[14:28] <rgreening> had my caffiene early
[14:28] <Quintasan> :D
[14:28] <Tonio_> also, I read that last knetworkmanager drop support for hidden networks, maybe we should reupload a snapshot...
[14:28] <apachelogger> oh, that was a wrong setting
[14:28] <apachelogger> meh
[14:28] <JontheEchidna> Tonio_: yeah, there's a crash-on-resume fix we want also
[14:28] <ScottK> apachelogger and nhandler: Already a bug existing.
[14:29] <ScottK> Bug #313508
[14:29] <Tonio_> JontheEchidna: oki I'm building the package then
[14:29] <JontheEchidna> Riddell: ok, so wanna drop the blacklist patch in bzr, then throw up to kubuntu-ppa/experimental for testing?
[14:30] <JontheEchidna> I'll be able to do that
[14:30] <apachelogger> do a code review
[14:30] <Tonio_> rgreening: have you been able to keep the adblock patch for arora ?
[14:30] <apachelogger> more time efficient and both implementations shouldnt be too complex
[14:30] <apachelogger> the compiz one isnt for sure, looked at it the other day
[14:31] <rgreening> Tonio_: adblock is to be dropped from arora as per icefox (arora dev). It is unstable, crashy and causes memory leak. They do not wish us to ship arora with this patch, as it will reflect badly on them.
[14:31]  * JontheEchidna has a patch he wants in -workspace anyways
[14:32] <rgreening> according to icefox, adblock should be usable for 1.0
[14:32] <Tonio_> rgreening: yup, that's what I read too
[14:32] <Tonio_> rgreening: well the code needs improvements, but is pretty much working right now
[14:33] <Tonio_> rgreening: once this is in, all we'll need for the basics is the kwallet support I guess
[14:33] <rgreening> yeah
[14:33] <rgreening> so, I have to put in the FFe and upload...
[14:34] <Tonio_> rgreening: is that being written right now ?
[14:34] <rgreening> Riddell: for arora FFe, I have the code in my PPA. Is that ok, or do you need stuff uploaded somewhere else?
[14:34] <Tonio_> the kwallet stuff ?
[14:34] <rgreening> Tonio_: ? dunno.
[14:34] <Tonio_> JontheEchidna: will knetworkmanager require a FFe ? I don't think so but I'd like to be sure :)
[14:35] <JontheEchidna> hmm
[14:35] <JontheEchidna> I think as long as releases are bugfix-only you just have to file a bug documenting that you're uploading it
[14:35] <rgreening> its a new version, so prob...
[14:35] <Tonio_> JontheEchidna: hard to do since there is no official changelog, no official stable release
[14:35] <JontheEchidna> yeah, tricky stuff...
[14:35] <rgreening> best ask Riddell then
[14:36] <JontheEchidna> we might want to get a standing exception if we plan to update this throughout betas, etc
[14:36] <Tonio_> JontheEchidna: do you have bug numbers that current svn should fix ? that'd help :)
[14:36] <JontheEchidna> Tonio_: any of them I know about should be marked fix committed in LP
[14:37] <Tonio_> and would you have the list somewhere ? just to avoid forgetting one of them :)
[14:37] <JontheEchidna> having a maintained bugtracker is so nice ^_^
[14:37] <JontheEchidna> Out of the bugs we're tracking, it looks like only bug 424606 has been fixed in svn
[14:38] <JontheEchidna> maybe 422174, though that one hasn't been upstreamed
[14:38] <Riddell> rgreening: that's fine but is there a bug with the changelog and rationale?
[14:38] <ScottK> agateau and Riddell: agateau's stuff is now in a branch of the Quassel Git: http://git.quassel-irc.org/?p=quassel.git;a=shortlog;h=refs/heads/libindicate
[14:38] <Riddell> nice
[14:38] <rgreening> Riddell: yep. I'm updating shortly... I'll ping you with it
[14:38] <agateau> ScottK: great news
[14:49] <rgreening> Riddell: bug 424312
[14:51] <rgreening> Riddell: I believe the report should contain the necessary details. If not, let me know what else you require.
[14:51] <seele> has maco been around lately?
[14:52]  * seele wonders if she is getting killed by schoolwork
[14:59] <Riddell> I've implemented KubuntuKarmicXsplash
[14:59] <Riddell> it works ok but it's only shown very briefly
[15:00] <rgreening> cool
[15:00] <rgreening> how brief?
[15:00] <Riddell> 1 second max
[15:00] <rgreening> BWHAHAHAHHAHA!
[15:00] <Riddell> bit more for autologin though
[15:01] <rgreening> maybe it should be called KubuntuKarmicSeeThatFlash
[15:15] <JontheEchidna> blah, translations for modules in System Settings are borked
[15:15] <JontheEchidna> run the modules in a kcmshell4 and they're fine, tho
[15:23] <rgreening> Riddell: how hard would it be to get a standing FFe for arora? I was speaking with icefox and adblock and some other useful features will be available soonish...
[15:24] <Riddell> rgreening: I expect I can agree to that
[15:25] <rgreening> Riddell: ok, cool. So, do you need anything from me to make that happen?
[15:26] <Riddell> rgreening: a bug to comment on?
[15:26] <rgreening> Ok. Will open one now.
[15:34] <Riddell> apachelogger: win!
[15:38] <apachelogger> Riddell: what did we win :)
[15:38] <Riddell> a fan of k-netbook
[15:39] <ScottK> Where?
[15:39] <apachelogger> oh, right :)
[15:39] <rgreening> Riddell: in addition to FFe for 0.9.0 bug 424312, I have opened a standing FFe for arora as bug 427903. Do I still need to subscribe ubuntu-release to the bug?
[15:39] <apachelogger> ScottK: ml
[15:39] <yuriy> Riddell: is that one second with X already starting earlier or have they not done that yet?
[15:39]  * ScottK looks
[15:40] <Riddell> rgreening: yes do subscribe them
[15:40] <rgreening> ok. consider it done.
[15:40] <Riddell> yuriy: they havn't done that yet so it may indeed change
[15:41] <rgreening> Riddell: ok, ball is in your court now.
[15:54] <ScottK> Someone should look at syncing kmymoney from Debian since it's 1.0 now
[15:54] <JontheEchidna> ^should we wait for debian to get 1.0.1 first?
[16:11] <neversfelde> I guess, we need more feedback for bug 424328
[16:17] <Riddell> dantti: can you remind me again the status of policykit 1.0 for kde?
[16:22] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: I removed the compiz patch from kdebase-workspace and added the xsplash one, ok if I upload?
[16:22] <apachelogger> Riddell: can you still give FFe for universe or did they revoke that privilege?
[16:22] <Riddell> apachelogger: yes I can although vorian is the first call for KDE bits if he's around
[16:23] <JontheEchidna> Riddell: I'm done with what I needed to do
[16:24] <apachelogger> well, he is not
[16:25] <apachelogger> obama is quite away :P
[16:25] <apachelogger> Riddell: bug 427841
[16:25] <apachelogger> only need a second ack anyway
[16:25] <JontheEchidna> lol, you pinged obama for an FFe?
[16:25] <apachelogger> I think I did
[16:25] <apachelogger> weeeheee, android 1.6
[16:25]  * JontheEchidna reads backscroll
[16:25]  * apachelogger notes that it takes ages to boot
[16:29] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: You're a Spanish speaker, right?
[16:31] <JontheEchidna> ScottK: sorta, 3 years in highschool
[16:31] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: Could you take a whack at translating Bug 427933?
[16:33] <Riddell> bugs in languages other than English are usually just closed
[16:37] <ScottK> Riddell: Yes, but this one I think is a bug about translations.
[16:37] <ScottK> So I thought it was worth a look.
[16:38] <Riddell> try dpm then
[16:38] <Riddell> apachelogger: we don't want openoffice.org-math ?
[16:38] <JontheEchidna> If I knew what an entrada was...
[16:39]  * dpm is busy with something else and might not be too responsive in the next 1h or so
[16:39] <apachelogger> Riddell: I don't see why it got a very limited use case
[16:39] <Riddell> it's like an enchilada I recon
[16:39] <dpm> but feel free to ask
[16:39] <JontheEchidna> ScottK: I've posted my best translation
[16:39] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: Thanks.
[16:40] <Riddell> apachelogger: fair enough
[16:41] <apachelogger> Riddell: I really think we should be focusing on more lang packs :)
[16:41] <Riddell> we should do another translations day before beta to make sure they're all working (e.g. someone moaned about system settings not working earlier)
[16:42] <Riddell> dpm: ^^
[16:42] <apachelogger> systemsettings seems to be working for me, though kpk is not all that well translated to german
[16:43] <dpm> Riddell: sure, I'm all for it. Let's talk about it on Monday or someone just kick off a thread on kubuntu-devel
[16:44] <Riddell> ScottK: I'm moving kuser to dvd and updating kubuntu-meta
[16:45] <Riddell> apachelogger: thanks for doing the seed re-org, I don't know why it didn't work when I tried it
[16:45] <ScottK> Excellent.
[16:45] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: Did we adjust userconfig to be less hidden in systemsettings?
[16:46] <apachelogger> Riddell: you forgot to edit the task-seeds, other than that your approach would have been working IIRC
[16:50] <JontheEchidna> ScottK: still up for debate, I think
[16:51] <JontheEchidna> in that we never reached a conclusion
[16:51] <Riddell> apachelogger: where are those edited?
[16:51] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: OK.  I think adding a user is a pretty basic system function.
[16:51] <ScottK> Riddell: ^^?
[16:51] <Riddell> apachelogger: oh I see, that explains it
[16:52] <JontheEchidna> bug 425373
[16:53] <Riddell> JontheEchidna, ScottK: I would have expected it under General->Computer Administration i think
[16:53] <Riddell> but we have seele for decisions like this :)
[16:53]  * ScottK too.  It's hidden in advance now.
[16:53] <ScottK> OK
[16:54] <JontheEchidna> computer admin would seem correct
[16:56] <apachelogger> Riddell: btw, for testing: edit /usr/bin/germinate and change the bzr branch url to somewhere else (e.g. your user) then push your changes there and run germinate --bzr
[16:57] <apachelogger> that way you don't have to pass the changes through the main branch
[16:59] <Riddell> yeah I know
[16:59] <apachelogger> ok :)
[16:59]  * apachelogger waits for soyuz to process kasomo
[16:59] <apachelogger> kamoso even
[17:01] <apachelogger> ScottK: kamoso in NEW; ffe bug 427841; needs to go to multiverse due to vlc
[17:01] <nixternal> HELP!!!!!
[17:02] <Riddell> nixternal: hmm?
[17:02] <nixternal> I have to clean out my messy shed and I need help :)
[17:02] <apachelogger> hm
[17:02] <apachelogger> actually
[17:02] <apachelogger> Riddell: vlc is in universe?
[17:02] <nixternal> should be called "The House of Bikes" and not a shed really
[17:02] <apachelogger> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/vlc
[17:02] <Riddell> gosh, when did that happen?
[17:03] <ScottK> apachelogger: I'm gonna let Riddell take that one.
[17:03] <apachelogger> karmic it seems
[17:03] <nixternal> apachelogger: yes, because there are already enough video players in main supposedly
[17:03] <ScottK> I think since ffmpeg got shoved around
[17:03] <apachelogger> http://packages.ubuntu.com/search?keywords=vlc&searchon=names
[17:03] <nixternal> and because of what ScottK just said
[17:03] <ScottK> Something related to the new patent policy, IIRC.
[17:03] <apachelogger> poor ffmpeg
[17:03] <apachelogger> ScottK: dunno if Riddell wants to take it he gave ack on revu and on the ffe ;(
[17:03] <apachelogger> ;) even
[17:04] <ScottK> Oh.
[17:04] <Riddell> right, I shouldn't do the archive admin review on it
[17:04]  * ScottK is tied up for a while.  Maybe tonight.
[17:04] <apachelogger> ok
[17:04] <Riddell> apachelogger: did you get a tar from upstream with licence in it?
[17:04] <apachelogger> aye
[17:04] <apachelogger> and poked him the first time about getting an alternative backend ;)
[17:07] <apachelogger> krunner -> apt:package ... is pure awesomeness TBH
[17:18] <dantti> Riddell: It's being ported by a fedora guy, as not even the gnome polkit dialog works here I can't help much..
[17:21] <Riddell> dantti: you could always install a distro where it does work :)
[17:22] <dantti> Riddell: yes I could, but as I work at work, doing ssh to a VM is a bit of a pain..
[17:22] <dantti> I mean slow...
[17:24] <Riddell> dantti: who's the fedora guy?
[17:25] <dantti> Riddell: his nick is jreznik , you can find him in #policykit-kde
[17:32] <Riddell> shtylman: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/427978 for you?
[17:33] <apachelogger> huh
[17:34] <apachelogger> the default kopete chat windows is kind of small
[17:48] <neversfelde> oh, no. kformula is gone again
[17:50] <apachelogger> Riddell: where the heck does stuff go I write in the kopete facebook thingy?
[17:52] <rgreening> Nightrose: have you seen amarok resume play after pressing pause button? It is happening on my system (I expect it's somethnig to do with the keyboard settings on my system though)
[17:52] <Riddell> it should go to who you are writing to
[17:52] <rgreening> apachelogger: your wall
[17:52] <rgreening> apachelogger: all your friends can typically see the wall messages
[17:53] <rgreening> facebook wall is actually the first twitter... :)
[17:53] <rgreening> haha
[17:53] <Nightrose> rgreening: i have a similar problem with the multimedia keys on my keyboard - the keys seem to get stuck - it might also be a problem with your phonon backend though
[17:53] <Nightrose> i have no idea if my problem is a HW or SW failure though
[17:53] <rgreening> hmm... Nightrose sugesstions on what I can do to test/debug?
[17:53] <apachelogger> rgreening: well, I sent it to someone
[17:54] <Nightrose> try changing your phonon backend i'd say
[17:54] <Nightrose> and check if you have pulseaudio somewhere there
[17:54] <apachelogger> doesn't show up on any wall though
[17:56] <rgreening> Nightrose: here's my debug from pressing pause from a running podcast and it restarts playing... http://paste.ubuntu.com/269274/
[17:56] <apachelogger> rgreening: in fact, I don't even know how I would post to my wall
[17:57] <rgreening> apachelogger: haha. I can't help teach you facebook. thats a journey best had by the individual. :)
[17:57] <apachelogger> I don't want a journey I want to test the darn plugin :P
[17:57] <Nightrose> rgreening: can you try in #amarok please? I'm not the best to help you with this unfortunately
[17:58] <rgreening> np. just wondering if you had seen this or not.
[17:59] <Nightrose> the answer would be: kinda ;-)
[18:00]  * Riddell pokes netbook types into #k-n
[18:00] <apachelogger> oh, that is actually shareworthy
[18:01] <apachelogger> http://aplg.kollide.net/tmp/6413_108259837705_635482705_1990635_5810068_n.jpg
[18:02] <apachelogger> that happens when apachelogger gets to hear daft punk's one more time :D
[18:06] <Riddell> rgreening: arora FFe approved
[18:06] <Riddell> looks like amarok approved too, I'll upload that, thanks for the help Nightrose
[18:07] <Nightrose> thanks to you :)
[18:09] <neversfelde> does the doc team needs to be informed?
[18:09] <rgreening> ty Riddell. was that for both the FFe for 0.9.0 and standing FFe for on-going?
[18:09] <Nightrose> there is no upstream doc for amarok
[18:09] <Nightrose> we'll hopefully get that done for 2.3
[18:09] <Nightrose> or better for 2.2.1
[18:10] <Riddell> rgreening: yes
[18:11] <Riddell> kubuntu doc team, which I guess is jjesse and nixternal
[18:11] <Riddell> shtylman: "temporarily force sudo until we work out why kdesudo stops it passing partitioning stage" wibble, what's that all about?
[18:12] <davmor2> Riddell: ublog still has the configure button over it :(
[18:12] <neversfelde> Riddell: and probably the slideshow needs to be changed?
[18:12] <davmor2> after being configured there is a bug I can't remember the number off hand though
[18:13] <rgreening> ty Riddell
[18:15] <apachelogger> Riddell: can you please accept my friendship request on fb, need someone to test with :P
[18:19] <Riddell> oh now you've distracted me
[18:19] <Riddell> Nightrose: who's Ingo Malchow and do I want him to be my friend?
[18:19] <Nightrose> Riddell: haha - he's one of the kde forum admins
[18:19] <Nightrose> nice dude
[18:19] <neversfelde> hehe, yes he is
[18:20] <neversfelde> neverendingo on freenode
[18:21] <rgreening> Riddell: did you upload the package for arora 0.9.0 from my PPA yet?
[18:22] <Riddell> rgreening: no, you never told me to
[18:23] <rgreening> lol. my bad thought I did. Can you?
[18:23] <rgreening> now that the FFe is approved
[18:24] <rgreening> :)
[18:24] <rgreening> Riddell: s/did/can :)
[18:24] <rgreening> hows that
[18:24] <rgreening> :P
[18:25] <apachelogger> btw, with latest kds you should get oxygen emoticons
[18:25]  * rgreening needs caffiene
[18:25] <apachelogger> way better than the old kde3ish ones
[18:25] <rgreening> \o/
[18:26] <rgreening> Riddell: what's the latest time we can get any update to arora into Karmic?
[18:26] <rgreening> just so I can give icefox a pseudo dead/timeline for adblock, wallet, etc
[18:27] <neversfelde> we should bring partitionamanger to the cd, do we have enough space for it?
[18:27] <ScottK> Is it reliable enough?
[18:27] <apachelogger> still beta I think?
[18:27] <neversfelde> I tested it with several harddrives and usb stick, there was no problem
[18:28] <neversfelde> apachelogger: no, it is stable 1.0.0 afair
[18:28] <apachelogger> oh indeed
[18:28]  * apachelogger checks deps
[18:28] <neversfelde> http://www.kde-apps.org/content/show.php/KDE+Partition+Manager?content=89595
[18:29] <apachelogger> we should have all the deps on the CD already
[18:29] <apachelogger> package itself is >2MiB though
[18:29] <apachelogger> maybe we can squeeze that a bit
[18:29] <neversfelde> and it is something every user needs
[18:29] <apachelogger> well, I wouldn't go that far :P
[18:30] <apachelogger> anyway, get some more testing information and get the main inclusion process started
[18:30] <neversfelde> apachelogger: ok, will do
[18:30] <apachelogger> ultimately youd mail kubuntu-devel beforehand though
[18:31] <apachelogger> in case someone disagrees with having it on the CD
[18:31] <ScottK> neversfelde: What cases are not handled by the installer that we need this on CD?
[18:33] <neversfelde> ScottK: format external harddisks and usb sticks, change filesystem of external devices erase your windows partition :)
[18:33] <ScottK> neversfelde: What of that do I need to do during install that the installer can't do?
[18:34] <neversfelde> ScottK: mhh, nothing, so probably better the DVD?
[18:34] <apachelogger> ScottK: well, youd need it on the installation as well?
[18:34] <apachelogger> or even more there
[18:34] <neversfelde> it would be useful for encrypting partitions with the live CD, but I guess users, that do this can use the command line
[18:34] <ScottK> apachelogger: Why?
[18:34]  * apachelogger wants to note that the only time he formated anything was the sdcard of his android phone but even that he did from within the UI, so he has no clue whether this is really needed
[18:34] <ScottK> neversfelde: That's supported on the alternate CD
[18:35] <apachelogger> ScottK: formatting usb disks seems like a common use case
[18:35] <apachelogger> consider above disclaimr though
[18:35] <ScottK> apachelogger: During install?
[18:35] <apachelogger> nah
[18:35] <neversfelde> ScottK: really, I thought that only encrypted /home is supported
[18:35] <apachelogger> installation
[18:35] <apachelogger> eh
[18:35] <apachelogger> after installation
[18:35] <apachelogger> in the running system
[18:35] <ScottK> Right, so not needed on the CD I don't think.
[18:35] <ScottK> I'm fine with supported on the DVD.
[18:36] <ScottK> I think it's late to be adding it to the CD.
[18:36] <neversfelde> yes, probably the best solution to put it on the DVD
[18:36] <apachelogger> why would you not want to have it when installed from CD?
[18:37] <ScottK> Because I'm nervous about introducing potentially system destroying packages to the default install late in the development cycle.
[18:37] <apachelogger> well, only destroying if the user chooses to do so :P
[18:38] <apachelogger> but yeah, we can postpone the CD shipping to 10.04
[18:39] <apachelogger> I have no idea if the fb plugin is online or offline
[18:39] <apachelogger> need more friends
[18:39] <neversfelde> no showstopper for Karmic, btw. users gave very positive feedback in our forum for 9.10
[18:39] <apachelogger> urls plz
[18:40] <neversfelde> apachelogger: send you a request
[18:40] <apachelogger> I doubt that
[18:41] <apachelogger> apport is eating my ram -.-
[18:43] <neversfelde> apachelogger: Freundschaftsanfrage anhängig and it was the only Harald Sitter
[18:45] <apachelogger> well
[19:43] <apachelogger> Sput: since we were talking about protocols earlier... quassel should gain protocol support, so that one can link to irc://irc.ubuntu.com/#kubuntu-devel on websites
[19:43] <Sput> apachelogger: true that
[19:44] <Sput> though we probably need a dbus interface or something for that :)
[19:44] <apachelogger> Sput: have a protoclhandler app that dbusses the client/monoclient?
[19:46]  * Sput has no idea how protocol handling works in KDE or elsewhere
[19:46] <Sput> but we certainly need some way to remote-control the app :)
[19:48] <apachelogger> kde protocols are easy
[19:48] <apachelogger> Sput: you basically just need an app to handle the URL
[19:48] <Sput> I see
[19:48] <apachelogger> well, actually lib or app
[19:49] <apachelogger> http uses kio_http while amarok uses, well the amarok bin
[19:49] <Sput> hmmm... could be quassel itself, if started with a parameter, it could check the session bus and start itself or remote control another instance
[19:49] <apachelogger> Sput: the problem is however, how to know whether to exec the monoclient or the regular one?
[19:50] <Sput> well... what if it doesn't matter? :)
[19:50] <apachelogger> how so?
[19:50] <Sput> oh... for the first one
[20:10] <JontheEchidna> Tonio_: btw, if you haven't upload the new networkmanagement yet, there's another crash fix in svn
[20:10] <JontheEchidna> for bug 426692
[20:55] <davmor2> meh that's not nice
[20:56] <davmor2> if you select some random desktop effects from the list in kubuntu and hit apply you get a white screen :(
[20:57] <apachelogger> bad driver?
[20:58] <apachelogger> oh right
[20:58] <apachelogger> Riddell: please move the install-package branch from you to kubuntu-members
[20:59] <apachelogger> I can't bzr push :P
[21:04] <apachelogger> X went down
[21:04] <apachelogger> time for bed
[21:04] <Tm_T> apachelogger: indeed, son
[21:18] <Tonio__> huml any idea how where downloaded the knetworkmanager po files ?
[21:19] <Tonio__> I can't remember the script that helps creating the tarball from the svn sources on that point
[21:21] <ScottK> messages.sh?
[21:23] <Tonio_> ScottK: Messages.sh: 2: settings/config/traysettings.ui: Permission denied
[21:24] <Tonio_> ScottK: I can read/write in them so I guess there is another trouble
[21:24] <ScottK> Riddell is Mr. Messages.sh.
[21:24] <Tonio_> ScottK: btw this only creates the pot file, it won't get the po files on the svn/l10n
[21:24] <Tonio_> Riddell: any idea on that point ?
[21:26] <ScottK> No idea.
[21:27] <Tonio_> ScottK: I know there is a script that can generate a tarball including kde po files from an svn source tree.... just can't remember the name :) frustrating
[21:28] <ScottK> Maybe apachelogger knows.
[21:39] <Tonio_> apachelogger: ? :)
[21:50] <rgreening> no one here knows kil8n stuff... :)  I've been struggling with these issues myself of late. I think we need a wiki that describes it all and nominate Riddel to spearhead getting the details we need :)
[22:13] <ryanakca> Heh, no wonder I haven't received any Kubuntu mail for the past few days, offlineimap croaked on me...
[23:59] <shtylman> Riddell: I will take a look at that first bug...what is this sudo stuff about? I don't follow


[00:22] <mhall119> better read the fine print before agreeing
[00:28] <bkerensa> mhall119: what fine print?
[00:33] <mhall119> I'm assuming SPI is offering to take projects under their 501c3 umbrella
[00:38] <bkerensa> mhall119: thats what they do yes
[00:39] <bkerensa> mhall119: we have quite a number of large projects under the SPI umbrella already
[00:39] <mhall119> and for a lot of projects it works
[00:40] <mhall119> but it also means you can't accept donations directly anymore
[00:40] <bkerensa> sure
[00:40] <bkerensa> and currently none of the flavors except Kubuntu can
[00:40] <mhall119> they offered it to me years ago, but I declined for that reason
[00:41] <bkerensa> mhall119: for the kid linux thing you were doing?
[00:41] <bkerensa> Forgot what it was called
[00:41] <mhall119> Qimo, and yes
[00:41] <bkerensa> mhall119: why did you stop working on that? It seemed like an awesome project
[00:41] <bkerensa> Kids need Linux :)
[00:42] <mhall119> because the UI was designed around large, easy to find buttons
[00:42] <mhall119> and now Unity provides exactly that
[00:42] <mhall119> and more
[00:42] <mhall119> so does Gnome Shell for that matter
[00:43] <mhall119> so Qimo wouldn't be anything but a meta-package of games and wallpapers installed by default
[00:43] <mhall119> both of which are still in the Ubuntu archives, as far as I know
[06:46] <dholbach> good morning
[17:37] <jcastro> <- lunch


[13:51] <BluesKaj> Hi folks
[22:56]  * mamarley just did his first KDE Kontribution!: https://invent.kde.org/multimedia/k3b/-/commit/3e20e668c6137ec85a0d16d537f2c88ea40ef654


[01:10] <rovanion> I'm trying to build despotify on Ubuntu 9.10 but when trying to make I get a good couple of errors: http://pastebin.org/70412 And please point me in the right direction if I'm in the wrong channel
[01:18] <emgent> dendrobates: ola ;)
[01:20] <dendrobates> emgent: hi
[01:38] <geser> rovanion: looks like you're missing libao-dev (at least, perhaps other packages too)
[01:56] <rovanion> Thank you a lot geser, have a great day!
[14:34] <ScottK> jdstrand: I see from LP you're working on the Spamassassin Y2010 problem.
[14:34] <ScottK> Which releases are you doing?
[14:35] <ScottK> I'll do the others
[14:36]  * ion laughs at http://people.canonical.com/~scott/daily-bootcharts/
[14:37] <ScottK> jdstrand: Nevermind.  Saw your note in the bug now.
[15:17] <reduz> guys, simple question, WHY is pulseaudio used by default in ubuntu? it's always broken and full of bugs on every machine i installed ubuntu
[15:17] <reduz> crashes, causes sound corruption, etc since at least 3 ubuntu versions
[15:17] <reduz> or goes to 100% CPU when using small buffers
[15:17] <hunger> reduz: No idea! It is even installed in kubuntu for some reason.
[15:18] <ion> Theoretically, something like PulseAudio is totally the right way to go. As for anecdotes, here’s another: it works fine for me. :-P
[15:20] <hunger> ion: Why is pulseaudio the right way to go?  So pulseaudio is required for thin clients (just _my_ case)...
[15:22] <reduz> well, over here pulseaudio corrupts sound
[15:22] <reduz> the begining of each sound
[15:22] <ion> Audio interfaces that look like you’re communicating directly with the hardware has problems. For instance, network transparency is not nice to achieve with them. They have hard time providing low latency for applications requiring it and low CPU use for applications that don’t need low latency. Something that provides a higher-level interface is good.
[15:25] <reduz> ion, yeah because of something that 0.001% of the people using a desktop need, you add a whole new layer of complexity you have to mantain and bugs often for 99.9999% of the rest of the users. That's not good thinking
[15:25] <ScottK> hunger: Pulseaudio is not part of the standard Kubuntu install.  If you have it then it was dragged in as a recommends/depends of something else you installed.
[15:25] <ion> reduz: Switch the numbers with each other.
[15:26] <reduz> ion, network transparency? i think not
[15:26] <ScottK> ion: I have yet to require any of Pulseaudio's unique functionality.
[15:26] <ion> Low CPU use when needed, low latency when needed.
[15:26] <ScottK> (not saying some people don't need it, but it's certainly not everyone)
[15:26] <reduz> ion, sorry, but pulseaudio is not low latency friendly
[15:27] <reduz> it climbs to 100% cpu in most cases, while regular alsa or OSS4 do fine
[15:27] <reduz> even the own pulseaudio developers aknowledge that it's not low latency friendly
[15:27] <ScottK> reduz: It's a decision that was made 2 years ago, so there's no chance of them going back.  It's really not worth your time to argue about.
[15:28] <reduz> ScottK, i don't mind pulseaudio itself, but that it's full of bugs :(
[15:28] <ion> reduz: It can provide lower latency than the hardware itself can provide by using an accurate timer to put new audio data just after the hardware play position instead of having to rely on interrupts from the hardware requesting new audio data early.
[15:28] <ion> That means long hardware buffers can be used, which means less interrupts, which means either low CPU use or low latency, depending on what the application request.
[15:28] <ScottK> ion: Then why isn't it used in Ubuntu Studio? I'd think they'd want that.
[15:29] <reduz> ion, what you are saying makes no sense at all. if the app request a certain latency, pulseaudio shouldn't do anything
[15:29] <reduz> ion, apps already know what latenc they need, otherwise they wouldn't pass a buffersize as opening param
[15:30] <ion> scottk: At the moment, JACK is better for professional audio, since it provides audio (and MIDI IIRC) routing within and between applications. Perhaps they’ll be merged one day.
[15:30] <ion> reduz: You’re still thinking at too low level.
[15:32] <reduz> ion, i understand what you mean, but then again, that's too dependent on hardware as far as i remember
[15:32] <reduz> as in, not all hardware works the same way
[15:33] <ion> PulseAudio could, for instance, take 20 seconds of audio ahead from an MP3 player. If you seek or jump to another song, it can drop the buffer, immediately start playing the new thing, taking a short chunk of new audio initially and then taking exponentially longer chunks up to the upper limit if there’s no further user changes.
[15:33] <ion> An interface that looks like the application’s banging raw hardware just can’t provide something like that.
[15:34] <ScottK> slangasek or jdstrand (you two are the only ubuntu-sru members connected at the moment): Please have a look at Bug #502071 as it's a pretty urgent SRU (impact can be as bad as all not explicitly whitelisted mail gets marked spam).
[15:34] <ScottK> Sorry, jdstrand/jdong
[15:34] <ion> reduz: All PC audio hardware provides a buffer of certain length and at least interrupts.
[15:35] <ion> That’s pretty much all you need to do the magic PulseAudio does. The MacOSX audio system does the same.
[15:35] <reduz> ion, well, to make it short, pulseaudio is bugged on my system and sound is all corrupted. Any idea how to fix it or hints on how to find a similar report?
[15:35] <reduz> ion, or at least how to disable it?
[15:36] <ion> The usual way. Search at launchpad. If no-one has reported the same issue, run apport-bug pulseaudio.
[15:39] <ion> Ubuntu’s PulseAudio packaging is a bit crippled in 9.10, that can cause problems. Lucid fixes part of that (rtkit) but not yet everything (flat-volumes).
[15:42] <jdong> ScottK: ACKed. Ouch, what a painful way to welcome the new year
[15:42] <reduz> well, i'm left with no audio again
[15:42] <reduz> it's been 3 ubuntu versions i can't use alsa+pulse because pulseaudio fucks up
[15:43] <ScottK> Thanks jdong.  I'll accept them.
[15:43] <reduz> so i guess i'll go install OSS4.. again
[15:45] <alkisg> reduz: if those sound problems are with SDL apps, there are known workarounds...
[15:46] <reduz> alkisg, no, happens for every single app
[15:46] <alkisg> ok
[15:46] <reduz> pulseaudio just probably dislikes my pro-soundcard
[15:46] <reduz> alsa/oss work fine with it
[15:46] <reduz> as well as windows
[15:48] <reduz> eh
[15:49] <reduz> where is asoundconf? :(
[15:49] <reduz> guess it's gone in 9.10
[15:51] <reduz> it seems pulse cannot be removed in ubuntu anymore?
[15:53] <reduz> ah found to do it
[15:53] <reduz> and as usual, sound works flawlessly without it
[15:54] <reduz> ah... mixer applet no longer works without pulseaudio, good.
[15:58] <reduz> well, guys i really appreciate your work but it seems ubuntu is no longer for me
[17:14] <hyperair> how does one boot ubuntu in rc 3 instead of rc 2?
[17:16] <sladen> upgrade
[17:20] <ion> hyperair: Pass 3 as a parameter to Linux.
[21:00] <lamont> is there a magic command to fetch-n-install ddebs?  or do I just fetch'em manually?
[21:06] <bdrung_> ScottK: is my answer to bug #500870 enough?
[21:07] <ScottK> Looking
[21:47] <bdrung_> ScottK: why not carrying this patch until either cdbs or the policy is fixed?
[21:48] <ScottK> bdrung_: The CDBS change is on purpose to save CD space and because of the way it works, should always be policy compliant.  There may be other cases that the lintian check legitimately catches.
[21:48] <ScottK> So there isn't any fixing of policy or CDBS to do.
[21:49] <ScottK> Can you make it so that instead of turning off the check entirely, it's only turned off for CDBS packages that do the symlinking by design in Ubuntu?
[21:53] <geser> lamont: if I read the manpage of "apport-retrace" correctly it should install the needed ddebs for you (if you have a .crash file)
[21:56] <bdrung_> ScottK: that could work. a package is a CDBS package when it build-depends on cdbs?
[21:57] <ScottK> I'd assume so.  I can't think of another reason to build-dep on CDBS.
[21:58] <ScottK> bdrung_: For bonus points, only stop the check if you're running on Ubuntu.  Then maybe the patch could go upstream and we could sync again.
[22:01] <bdrung_> ScottK: we can't check, if we are running on ubuntu
[22:01] <ScottK> bdrung_: But you can check if the package has an ubuntu version string
[22:02] <bdrung_> ScottK: that's not enough. synced package will have symlinks, too.
[22:02] <ScottK> bdrung_: Who runs lintian on sync'ed packages?
[22:03] <bdrung_> ScottK: me :)
[22:03] <ScottK> Then you're free to ignore it.
[22:03] <ScottK> We had lintian sync'ed from Debian before and I think that's a good general state of affairs.
[22:05] <bdrung_> ScottK: for example i work on audacity. i build it on ubuntu and test it there, but upload it to debian. therefore i will see this warning every time.
[22:06] <ScottK> bdrung_: You should also build it on Debian.
[22:06] <bdrung_> ScottK: before uploading i build it in a sid pbuilder environment.
[22:15] <bdrung_> ScottK: should i work on the cdbs check, or do you insist on syncing?
[22:17] <ScottK> bdrung_: Even if it's uploaded to Ubuntu first, I'd like to have something that might get accepted upstream.
[22:17] <ScottK> Other potential sponsors may have a different view.
[22:20] <bdrung_> ScottK: there is probably no way to get it into debian (without playing with lsb_release), have a look at http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=536434
[22:22] <ScottK> bdrung_: Given what I've suggested is already in Lintian, yes, I think it should be sync'ed.
[22:40] <bdrung_> ScottK: is there a special procedure for package removals, or is it just filing a bug report and subscribing ubuntu-archive?
[22:41] <ScottK> bdrung_: That's mostly it.  There's a wiki page that says what needs to go in the bug.  I don't recall which one.
[22:44] <geser> I check rbuild-dependes, rdepends (and mention the status) and mention the reasons for the removal (e.g. existing Debian removal bug)
[22:46] <bdrung_> geser: can i request two removal in one bug report or should i split it? (remove A and B, B depends on A)
[22:47] <geser> in that case I'd use one bug (either both go or both stay)