[03:20] <calc> er i'm confused did the desktop team meeting not get changed?
[03:21] <calc> its still showing up on the fridge as thursday
[03:21] <beuno> calc, let me know if you need it changed
[03:21] <calc> beuno: not sure Keybuk_ would know but he is asleep atm
[03:22] <beuno> calc, ok, poke me and I'll change it or give one of you guys superpowers to do so  :)
[03:22] <calc> beuno: yea it looks like the meeting should be tuesdays at 16:00 UTC
[03:22] <calc> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2008-11-11
[03:25] <beuno> calc, so this is the event that needs changing?  http://fridge.ubuntu.com/node/1717
[03:26] <calc> yes i believe so
[03:26] <calc> yea the url is it
[03:26] <calc> though on the wiki it claims the meeting is in #ubuntu-desktopp (?)
[03:26] <calc> i haven't been at a meeting in 2 weeks so i am not sure if that part is accurate
[03:27] <calc> i know the day/time is though since i have seen mailing list updates reflecting that part
[03:28] <beuno> calc, you tell me, I'm just following orders
[03:28] <beuno> we can change this tomorrow with Keybuk around
[03:33] <calc> beuno: actually from the looks of it he is on vacation so pitti would be the person to ask i guess
[03:33] <calc> beuno: i'll find out when i try to go to the meeting where it is for certain :)
[03:34] <beuno> calc, heh, good luck with that!
[03:35] <calc> yea :)
[03:45]  * Hobbsee notes ubuntu doesn't seem to have a 'legal' address.
[03:45] <Hobbsee> They have a trademarks address, and a PR address...
[04:12] <mneptok> Hobbsee: whatchya need?
[04:12] <Hobbsee> mneptok: some waffle words.
[04:12] <mneptok> Hobbsee: want me to ask the counsel to e-mail you?
[04:13] <mneptok> Hobbsee: or can you fire something at me that i can then forward?
[04:14] <Hobbsee> mneptok: fired.
[04:14] <Hobbsee> mneptok: (thanks
[04:14] <Hobbsee> )
[04:15] <mneptok> np np
[04:19] <mneptok> Hobbsee: sent to our counsel and m.d.z
[04:19] <Hobbsee> mneptok: cool, thanks :)
[04:19] <mneptok> for you? da moon, baby.
[04:19] <mneptok> or ... something.
[04:20] <Hobbsee> hehe
[04:21] <Hobbsee> can i have a billion dollars instead please?
[04:21]  * ajmitch hands Hobbsee 1 billion NZD
[04:21] <ajmitch> or about 10c australian
[04:21] <Hobbsee> australian dollars?  Or even euro, or brittish pounds?
[04:22] <ajmitch> no
[06:22] <dholbach> good morning
[06:31] <dholbach> ArneGoetje: I'm just looking at bug 299296 - I'm happy to get it synced, will you take care of getting ttf-sazanami into main and get it seeded?
[06:40] <didrocks> morning
[07:53] <pitti> Good morning
[07:54] <pitti> calc, beuno: yes, the meeting is in #ubuntu-desktop, since it clashes with another one in #u-meeting
[07:56] <amitk_> pitti: how do you feel like uploading a kernel to jaunty to start the day?
[07:56] <amitk_> :)
[07:57] <pitti> amitk_: in general I'm fine with that, but ATM we are in alpha-1 soft freeze today, so it's not a particularly good timing
[07:58] <persia> pitti, With which meeting does it clash?
[07:58] <pitti> persia: not sure, was just parrotting
[07:58] <amitk_> pitti: it was cleared with slangasek and cjwatson
[07:58] <pitti> amitk_: ah, ok, toss me the source.changes then
[07:58] <persia> Ah.  I ask because I have the two meetings that bracket the old desktop meeting time, so am probably be a good person to shift things.
[08:38] <cjwatson> pitti: I think alpha-1 soft freeze is *slightly* optimistic given that the installer isn't in yet :-)
[08:38] <cjwatson> pitti: I'm waiting on the kernel
[08:38] <amitk_> cjwatson: uploaded
[08:38] <pitti> cjwatson: was just parrotting the "don't upload anything that brings us closer" thing :)
[08:38] <pitti> erm, "doesn't bring"
[08:39] <cjwatson> yeah, this should
[08:39] <cjwatson> amitk_: how come "Add mouse-modules udeb" shows up as an upstream change?
[08:39] <cjwatson> I think the kernel team should reconsider this automatically-generated-changelog lark ...
[08:41] <cjwatson> it's easier to write changelog entries and generate commit messages from them than it is to try to make the other way round work - indeed joeyh explicitly commented that this turned out not to work very well for most folks in practice when he was writing debcommit, http://joey.kitenet.net/blog/entry/devscripts/
[08:42] <cjwatson> amitk_: although thanks :-)
[08:42] <StevenK> mvo: Hiyoubrokeupdatenotifierfixitfixitfixit
[08:43] <amitk_> cjwatson: not completely sure, but maybe because you did not use the git templates that add the UBUNTU: tags for the commits
[08:43] <cjwatson> amitk_: I didn't commit it at all
[08:44] <cjwatson> I just sent the patch and figured you guys would take care of that :)
[08:44] <mvo> StevenK: I did? in what way?
[08:45] <StevenK> (jaunty)root@liquified:~# /usr/share/update-notifier/notify-reboot-required
[08:45] <StevenK> .: 8: gettext.sh: not found
[08:45] <StevenK> mvo: ^
[08:46] <mvo> StevenK: wehh, sorry, fixing now
[08:46] <amitk_> cjwatson: ok. I didn't notice the lack of the UBUNTU tag in early morning
[08:48] <mvo> StevenK: but its still working, no? this message should be harmless, it appears when gettext-base is not installed
[08:48] <mvo> s/is/should be/ :)
[08:49] <StevenK> mvo: exit value 2
[08:49] <StevenK> mvo: So it isn't
[08:49] <mvo> ok
[08:58] <mvo> StevenK: thanks, fixed. should be happier now
[09:00] <StevenK> mvo: You uploaded it, or you'll batch things?
[09:00] <mvo> StevenK: I uploaded it
[09:01] <StevenK> mvo: Excellent, thank you
[09:04] <juliux> hi sodoes somebody know where i can report a broken package at an offical mirror?
[09:06] <persia> juliux, If it persists, #ubuntu-mirrors tends to be responsive.  If it's not responsive, I think there's an LP project, but I don't find it right now.
[09:07] <juliux> persia: thxs
[09:40] <pitti> seb128: do you think we should talk about pidgin->empathy at UDS?
[09:41] <seb128> pitti: there is not a lot to talk about
[09:42] <seb128> pitti: I mean we can discuss it but that's not really spec worth, that's rather "try it again and see if it's good enough, if not rollback to what we use now"
[09:42] <pitti> seb128: there's reviewing of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EmpathyVsPidginUsability and checking whether it sufficiently replaces ekiga, but of course UDS might not be the best forum to do that
[09:42] <seb128> pitti: it'll not replace ekiga this cycle
[09:43] <pitti> seb128: okay; not worth the trouble then, let's ditch bugs then :)
[09:43] <seb128> that has somewhat been discussed on the lists and they don't aim to replace ekiga for now
[09:44] <seb128> or rather the softwares are different enough
[09:50] <seb128> pitti: doing some uds agenda?
[09:51] <pitti> seb128: yes
[09:51] <seb128> pitti: do you think we should discuss building upstream language packs there?
[09:52] <pitti> seb128: I do want to discuss Rosetta and langpacks, yes
[09:52] <seb128> ok good
[09:53] <seb128> we should also discuss how to get extra translations back on the CD ;-)
[09:53] <pitti> 27. CD size war
[09:53] <seb128> using gettext for gconf would be useful there
[09:53] <seb128> which is already on your list ;-)
[09:55] <pitti> right; no need to discuss that, I think, it's a JFDI thing
[09:55] <seb128> yeah
[10:06] <pitti> Keybuk: I can't set the priority of https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/smooth-rosetta-imports
[10:06] <pitti> Keybuk: but you explicitly pointed out that this is important to set
[10:16]  * mvo reboots to run a hdd diagnose check
[10:17] <Keybuk> pitti: hmm
[10:17] <Keybuk> pitti: you don't see "Change priority" at all?
[10:18] <pitti> Keybuk: I do, but clicking on it gives me "Not allowed here"
[10:18] <Keybuk> try now
[10:18] <pitti> Keybuk: anyway, it does appear in the summit.u.c. admin list, despite not having a priority
[10:18] <pitti> Keybuk: no change
[10:19] <Keybuk> how about now?
[10:20] <pitti> Keybuk: \o/ supa-powahs
[10:21] <Keybuk> freaky
[10:21] <Keybuk> stupid Launchpad must have a team requirement hardcoded into it somewhere
[10:32] <cody-somerville> The requirement is probably membership in the distro driver team
[10:33] <Keybuk> you'd think that, *but* normally it doesn't even show the link if you don't have permission
[10:33] <Keybuk> so one bit thinks you have permission, since it's letting you click to change priority
[10:33] <Keybuk> but the bit that lets you actually doing it is clearly looking for something else
[10:38] <cjwatson> that's not consistent, unfortunately; there are a number of places where you'll see a link but get Forbidden if you try to use it
[10:40] <wgrant> Mainly in the bits of LP that haven't been touched at all for at least 2 years...
[10:41] <Keybuk> like Blueprint \o/
[10:41] <wgrant> Yep.
[10:41] <wgrant> It hasn't been touched in faaaar too long.
[10:48] <cody-somerville> It appears that it is also dependent on the view
[11:12] <sabdfl> liw: maybe
[11:27] <viviersf> cjwatson, its me again, the kickstart stuff, can it only install packages from main and restricted in the %packages section ?
[11:34] <cjwatson> viviersf: as of hardy it should allow anything
[11:35] <viviersf> cjwatson, oh ok, doesnt install gstreamer bad and ugly, lemme read logs
[11:35] <cody-somerville> Can someone approve https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/jaunty-xfce4.6 for uds?
[11:48] <cjwatson> mvo: bug 135284: is there a way to feed a list of packages to apt-get such that they'll all end up on the same "command line" even if they overflow the shell's command line length limit?
[11:49] <cjwatson> mvo: I think if we could feed them in some other way then that would fix this bug
[11:51] <mvo> cjwatson: we could use dpkg --set-selection and then apt-get dselect-upgrade
[11:52] <mvo> cjwatson: not sure if that fits into the requirements
[11:52]  * mvo looks at the actual bug
[11:57] <cjwatson> mvo: mm, that might work in this context
[11:57]  * mvo comments in the bug
[11:57] <cjwatson> particularly since nobody will have been running dpkg --set-selections by hand yet
[12:10] <mnabil_work> is there's a ubuntu source for xserver-xorg package in hardy ?
[12:12] <maxb> I don't understand that question, surely there's an ubuntu source for everything?
[12:13] <cjwatson> mnabil_work: apt-get source xserver-xorg
[12:13] <cjwatson> mnabil_work: also, please ask on #ubuntu next time
[12:14] <cjwatson> seb128: I'm trying to get the GTK d-i frontend working in jaunty, and have run up against the fact that we haven't merged vte packaging from Debian in quite a while so we don't have libvte9-udeb. Any objection to me doing a full packaging merge?
[12:16] <mnabil_work> cjwatson, thanks
[12:16] <seb128> cjwatson: no objection, mvo is doing the vte work usually though so maybe worth asking him too before starting
[12:16] <seb128> mvo: ^
[12:17] <mvo> cjwatson: sure, go ahead. please just keep our patches :)
[12:17] <cjwatson> mvo: oh, of course
[12:20] <beuno> pitti, would you like to get super-powers to add/edit events from the Fridge?
[12:35] <Keybuk> Libvolume_id now always probes for all known filesystems, and does not
[12:35] <Keybuk> stop at the first match.
[12:35] <Keybuk> (!!)
[12:35] <Keybuk> well, that only took three years
[12:37] <ogra> and takes 1h to bootup if you have many different blockdevices attached ?
[12:37] <Keybuk> no more or less than it would now
[12:37] <mok0> I am doing a "pseudosync", of a package I ported to Debian, I need to set revision back from Debian's -1 to -0ubuntu3. Should I just add a changelog entry at the top where the revision number steps back?
[12:37] <Keybuk> it just doesn't say "Yup, it's FAT32" anymore when it also has ext3 metadata on it
[12:38] <Keybuk> it now says "I see FAT32 and ext3"
[12:38] <ogra> ah, nice
[12:38] <cjwatson> mok0: why not use -1ubuntu1?
[12:38] <persia> Keybuk, What do you mean by pseudosync?  Debian diff.gz and Ubuntu tar.gz?
[12:39] <mok0> cjwatson: Yes why not? Good idea. Thanks
[12:39] <Keybuk> ok, I can get that tab error when it was Kamion/Keybuk ... but ... *blink*
[12:40] <ogra> m isnt to far from k on the kbd :)
[12:40] <persia> Err.  Right.  Not tab error.  Brain error.
[12:40] <persia> mok0, What do *you* mean by pseudosync?
[12:40] <mok0> persia: 2 secs
[12:41] <mok0> persia: bug 296354
[12:42] <persia> Oh.  Yeah.  You need -1ubuntu1 for that.
[12:42] <mok0> persia: upstream packaged a new tarball with the same version no.
[12:43] <mok0> persia: dunno why that didn't occur to me...
[12:46] <joaopinto> can someone advocate http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=amoebax ? Thanks
[12:46] <persia> joaopinto, You'd surely do better in #ubuntu-motu for that sort of request.
[12:50] <joaopinto> ops, sorry, wrong channel
[14:36] <pitti> seb128: FYI, I sub'ed you to https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/apport-retracer-maintenance
[14:36] <seb128> pitti: thanks
[14:49] <pitti> Riddell: is https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kubuntu-ipod still an issue in Kubuntu?
[14:54] <pitti> beuno: I guess it wouldn't hurt; actually I'd just like to add the desktop team meeting there
[14:57] <Riddell> pitti: no
[15:06] <Riddell> pitti: libical is needed in main for kdepimlibs, previously kdepimlibs had its own copy of libical, so no MIR needed?
[15:07] <pitti> Riddell: no, just a MIR bug for tracking, and a quick review of the package by MIR team
[15:07] <pitti> Riddell: one-liner bug description is enough
[15:32] <pitti> doko: bug 296466 doesn't look valid to me, but you know better
[15:41] <Keybuk> cjwatson: we should have a UDS spec
[15:41] <Keybuk> oem-config-make-less-yoda-like
[15:41] <Keybuk> "In which country do you live, hmm?"
[15:42] <doko> pitti: yes, it is
[15:43] <pitti> Keybuk: in the dark side of the world you are
[15:45] <Keybuk> I always wanted to be a Sith
[15:45] <Keybuk> they looked like they had much more fun
[15:46] <ion_> That’s an anagram.
[15:51] <Kw4h> i have a question regarding the gspca drivers on ubuntu
[15:52] <cjwatson> Keybuk: I thought it just said "Select a city in your country and time zone", which doesn't seem too Yoda-like?
[15:52] <Kw4h> in the sourcecode from both the official gspca driver, and the gspca-source package, my webcam sensor isn't defined right
[15:53] <Kw4h> after changing it, building the source, and reloading the driver the logs show that it still loads the wrong sensor
[15:53] <Kw4h> now, I changed the 'gspca' module
[15:53] <Kw4h> but, the module responsible for the webcam is 'gspca_vc032x' (which is depandant on 'gspca_main')
[15:53] <Kw4h> does anyone know how those two interact?
[15:55] <Keybuk> cjwatson: maybe Dell have customised it?
[15:55] <cjwatson> Keybuk: quite possibly; what did it say?
[15:55] <Keybuk> "In which country do you live?"
  would be much more ... well
[15:57] <Keybuk> better
[15:57] <cjwatson> that's not a tense :-)
[15:57] <cjwatson> but yes, I agree
[15:57] <Keybuk> voice
[15:57] <cjwatson> word order, I think
[15:57] <cjwatson> "voice" has a special grammatical meaning (active vs. passive)
[15:57] <Keybuk> sorry, I'm momentarily stunned by the fact that the Mini 9 boots slower with all of the customisations than virgin ubuntu
[15:59] <cjwatson> some people reorder the preposition in such sentences because either (a) they've been bamboozled by the prescriptivists (b) they want to avoid long tedious arguments with people who've been bamboozled by the prescriptivists
[15:59] <cjwatson> I often fall into (b) myself
[16:00] <Keybuk> but course of great english thing about order words matter doesn't
[16:00] <Keybuk> least at far as the sentence understanding of goes
[16:00] <johanbr> To paraphrase Dave Barry, "Bamboozled by the prescriptivists" would make an excellent album title.
[16:00] <calc> beuno: ping
[16:01] <persia> Keybuk, It's a little more important than that.
[16:01] <calc> beuno: it is #ubuntu-desktop on Tuesday at 1600UTC after all :)
[16:02] <Keybuk> oh, latin, it's not; but romantic other languages better than is
[16:02] <Kw4h> ehm, were my above questions readable? (so I'm not silenced or something :P)
[16:03] <Keybuk> wow, that's almost, as fun as, impressions, of, William Shatner
[16:04] <tseliot1> Kw4h: maybe you should ask in #ubuntu-kernel
[16:04] <Kw4h> heh thanks
[16:04] <Kw4h> all these channels...
[16:07] <tseliot1> this channel will soon be renamed #ubuntu-english-syntax
[16:07] <Kw4h> heh, what's that about then? :P
[16:11] <Keybuk> cjwatson: the only situation, offhand, that I can think of for beginning a sentence with "In which" is if you're Bob Holness
[16:12] <cjwatson> Keybuk: as James Bond or in Blockbusters?
[16:12] <Keybuk> err, maybe I'm thinking of another Quiz Show host?
[16:13] <cjwatson> Holness' sentences tended to begin "What P is ..."
[16:13] <cjwatson> or similar :)
[16:13] <Keybuk> "In which town was Arthur Conan Doyle captain of the local cricket club?"
[16:13] <Keybuk> type thing
[16:14]  * persia prefers starting sentences with "in which" when extending other's phrases.
[16:15] <ogra> "Do you live in a country ? If so, in which ?"
[16:15] <ogra> :)
[16:17] <tseliot1> isn't "In which country do you live?" more formal "Which country do you live in?" ?
[16:17] <directhex> Keybuk, you're thinking of the right one. he was the first bond, on the radio adaptations
[16:17] <directhex> as well as the presenter of shows like blockbusters
[16:17] <tseliot1> s/more formal/more formal than/
[16:17] <Keybuk> tseliot1: not by any rules I'm aware of; English has few formality rules
[16:18] <Keybuk> unless you're going to go for the full "In which country doest thou live?" :p
[16:18] <Keybuk> (which is actually informal, but worth a chuckle)
[16:20] <jdong> Keybuk: I suppose PERHAPS by the rule of not ending a sentence with a preposition...
[16:20] <jdong> in which country do you live is probably a BIT more formal, but meh.
[16:20] <Keybuk> http://grammartips.homestead.com/prepositions1.html
[16:20] <cjwatson> Keybuk: actually, the string you quoted is in UNR
[16:20] <tseliot1> Keybuk: my Irish tutor told me that word order (of course not always) can make a sentence more formal. And isn't "thou" shakespearean English?
[16:21] <directhex> tseliot1, thou speakest the truth!
[16:21] <tseliot1> hehe
[16:21] <cjwatson> tseliot1: "don't end a sentence with a preposition" is an oft-quoted "rule", but English suffers from the problem that a lot of rules are made up by grammarians and don't correspond to actual language use by the best speakers and writers
[16:22] <cjwatson> Keybuk: dost :-)
[16:22] <Keybuk> tseliot1: old English, when it still had a formal you and informal þou (thou)
[16:22] <directhex> good lord, someone using þ outside the smiley context of :-þ ?
[16:22] <tseliot1> cjwatson: my tutor didn't tell me that it was wrong to do so. I guess she learnt it from some grammar book
[16:23] <cjwatson> tseliot1: cf. languagelog for more rants on the subject :-)
[16:24] <cjwatson> tseliot1: of course, prescriptivists ultimately influence the language too
[16:24] <tseliot1> Keybuk: yes, right the "natural" evolution of languages
[16:25] <cjwatson> anyway, way off-topic :-)
[16:25] <tseliot1> cjwatson: I didn't know that blog. Thanks for mentioning it
[16:27] <Keybuk> my English teacher tought me a wonderful rule that I always remember
[16:27] <Keybuk> "the more boring, pompous and ridiculous the sentence you write--the less likely someone will actually read it"
[16:28] <tseliot1> ok but, *in which* country did your teacher live? :-P
[16:29] <Keybuk> England
[16:31] <tseliot1> Keybuk: jokes aside, what does it take to make a bluprint appear in this page? https://launchpad.net/sprints/uds-jaunty/+specs
[16:31] <Keybuk> click the "Propose for meeting agenda" and select uds-jaunty
[16:31] <tseliot1> ok, thanks
[16:34] <tseliot1> Keybuk: will it have to be approved by someone or am I experiencing some kind of bug? (no hurry, I just want to be sure)
[16:34] <Keybuk> it will have to be approved by someone
[16:34] <tseliot1> ah, ok
[16:34] <Keybuk> it helps if that someone knows what to look for
[16:35] <tseliot1> Keybuk: https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/wacom-tablets-ui and https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/screen-configuration-ui
[16:36] <Keybuk> ah yes, I saw those
[16:36] <Keybuk> who's intending to develop them?
[16:37] <persia> tseliot1, Is there a reason wacoms should be especially different from other tablet PC touchscreens?
[16:38] <Keybuk> tseliot1: done
[16:38] <tseliot1> Keybuk: thanks a lot
[16:39] <tseliot1> persia: I have yet to receive the actual (wacom) hardware via mail therefore I wouldn't know
[16:40] <tseliot1> persia: does xsetwacom work for non-wacom devices?
[16:40] <persia> tseliot1, OK.  I know there's some detail implementation differences in terms of wacom's mouse/pen/etc. support, but as a touchscreen user, I'd certainly like to be able to have something for other tablets or convertibles as well.
[16:40] <persia> No :)  That's why I'm hoping for something general.
[16:41] <tseliot1> persia: this is something we can discuss at the UDS
[16:41] <persia> Indeed.
[16:42] <tseliot1> maybe ogra can be interested in this ^^ too
[16:43] <ogra> not really
[16:43] <Keybuk> scheduled.
[16:43] <ogra> as i said to persia in a personal chat a min ago, tablets are a lot more painful than touchscreens
[16:44] <tseliot1> ogra: I suspected that and this is why I might work on it ;)
[16:44] <ogra> i love touchscreens and will take care fo all of them happily ... but leave tablets (and their ton of different input devices) to someone else as happily :)
[16:46] <ogra> though it looks like touchscreens will soon be handled by evdev upstream anyway and might not even need any distro love anymore ... i'm in contact with the upstream guy and we'll review the TS stuff in the UDS session
[16:47] <tseliot1> this would be great
[16:47] <ogra> https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/general-resolution-for-touchscreen-handling
[16:48] <ogra> tseliot1, will you be at UDS ?
[16:48] <tseliot1> ogra: yes, I subscribed to that spec. BTW do you use GDK to deal with pointer devices of touchscreens?
[16:48] <tseliot1> yes, sure
[16:48] <ogra> cool
[16:49] <ogra> currently its all done on an xlib level through the driver
[16:49] <ogra> and i bet the kde people wouldnt be happy if we defaulted to GDK for low level stuff :)
[16:49] <tseliot1> I guess they have their own way to deal with pointers with QT4
[16:50] <ogra> they shouldnt
[16:50] <ogra> its an xorg problem that should be solved on the xorg level
[16:50] <tseliot1> I was thinking about widgets in which you can test the pointer device
[16:50] <ogra> but it should provide some kind of API so calibration tools can hok into it
[16:50] <tseliot1> e.g. the stylus
[16:51] <ogra> well, thats why i prefer touchsreens :)
[16:51] <tseliot1> yes, that's what I meant
[16:51] <tseliot1> heh
[16:51] <ogra> i dont ant to deal with stylus/eraser and frineds
[16:51] <ogra> *want
[16:51] <ogra> or pressure and angle :)
[16:53] <tseliot1> can you set properties (as in touchpads)?
[16:54] <ogra> you can set the resolution
[16:55] <ogra> and a long touch timer (i.e. to emulate a right click on tap+hold)
[16:55] <tseliot1> but isn't that something that randr should do?
[16:55] <ogra> it can only do that if it gets the info from the driver
[16:55] <ogra> and thats where it is configured atm
[16:56] <tseliot1> yes, of course the driver has to support randr
[16:56] <ogra> the movelimit parameter defines fi you use a pen or a thumb for your input
[16:56] <ogra> by adjusting the resolution/sensitivity on a driver level
[16:57] <tseliot1> and do you use a daemon and/or a configuration file to make these settings permanent?
[16:57] <ogra> in intrepid i only worked with the evtuch driver ... and made that use hal-input
[16:58] <tseliot1> ok, so you used an fdi file
[16:58] <ogra> the driver brings an initscript atm
[16:58] <ogra> right on combination with a config file
[16:58] <ogra> *in
[16:58] <tseliot1> aah
[16:58] <ogra> the initscript iterates over the config file and calls hal-set-property
[16:58] <ogra> for all adjustable configuration
[16:59] <ogra> the fdi file only holds the device identification info
[16:59] <ogra> but that might change with the upstream switch to evdev ...
[16:59] <tseliot1> ok, but what happens if X.org is restarted?
[16:59] <ogra> might not need a separate .fdi
[16:59] <ogra> xorg asks hal on restart
[17:00] <tseliot1> ok, so hal properties are still there if xorg is restarted
[17:01] <ogra> right
[17:02] <tseliot1> maybe I will use it for tablets when the driver works better with hal
[17:02] <ogra> that might surely help with the general setup ... but you still need additional stuff for the input devices on tablets
[17:03] <ogra> since each can have its own handling and config
[17:03] <tseliot1> I've got X-Kit for that
[17:03] <tseliot1> but it would require restarting the xserver
[17:03] <tseliot1> but of course there's xsetwacom
[17:04] <tseliot1> X-Kit --> to configure the xorg.conf
[17:04] <ogra> right
[17:04] <ogra> i dont want xorg.conf to be involved at all
[17:05] <tseliot1> heh, you can...
[17:20] <NCommander> Who's archive day is it?
[17:20] <cjwatson> is the wiki broken? :)
[17:21] <cjwatson> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArchiveAdministration says Riddell
[17:55] <Riddell> pitti: I've created the bugs https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-sru/+bugs?field.bug_reporter=jr
[17:55] <Riddell> pitti: can I copy to -proposed?
[17:56] <NCommander> Riddell, so svk ... :-)
[17:59] <Keybuk> rickspencer3: Welcome! :p
[18:00] <Riddell> hi rickspencer3
[18:00] <Riddell> NCommander: onto it
[18:11] <rickspencer3> Hi Riddell
[19:17] <NCommander> Keybuk, ping
[20:58] <jdstrand> lamont: fyi-- I just requested a sync for bind9, since you incorporated all the ubuntu changes
[20:58] <jdstrand> lamont: hi btw :)
[21:01] <lamont> jdstrand: kewl
[21:02] <lamont> which reminds me, I need to finish the util-linux madness
[21:27]  * calc sees how many new MIRs he needs for OOo 3.0 and lol's
[21:27] <calc> poor MIR review team :\
[21:28] <calc> of course poor me for having to write them all as well, heh
[21:28] <calc> its 21 binary packages, haven't verified how many sources that involves
[21:29] <TheMuso> calc: Fun.
[21:37] <cjwatson> you don't need MIRs if it's just replacing something already in main with similar code but a different package name
[21:37] <cjwatson> so if OOo 2 is dropping out of main at the same time then ...
[21:39] <calc> cjwatson: oh i mean the new build depends, heh :)
[21:39] <calc> OOo keeps growing new build depends
[21:41] <cjwatson> ah
[21:41]  * cjwatson finally gets around to writing that script to check for override mismatches between architectures that he's been meaning to write for about three years
[21:42] <cjwatson> http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/architecture-mismatches.txt
[21:43] <cjwatson> it should probably group them by source but I don't care that much
[21:43]  * elmo cries quietly in the corner that that's even possible
[21:44] <cjwatson> elmo: it does in theory let us get priorities right for all architectures, mind you
[21:44] <cjwatson> not that we've been taking advantage of it
[21:44] <cjwatson> some of http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/priority-mismatches.txt is hard to solve otherwise though
[21:47] <directhex> i can understand how beagle would disperse from reality for hppa OR ia64, but not both together
[21:49] <cjwatson> it's a soyuz bug and depends on when they happened to build and when the archive admin processing NEW dealt with them
[21:49] <cjwatson> I've fixed the overrides in the db now
[21:50] <cjwatson> (those binaries were supposed to be in main; this sort of thing is why I wrote this script ...)
[21:52] <NCommander> hey infinity
[21:57] <NCommander> cjwatson, why is it the binaries require explicate overrides on a per-architectural basis? It seems kinda excessive ...
[22:00] <cjwatson> soyuz design feature/bug depending on how you look at it
[22:00] <cjwatson> I brought it up years ago, not particularly planning to do so again though
[22:04] <calc> if i want echo the value of a variable in debian/rules like KDE_VER in the following
[22:04] <calc> BUILD_DEPS += , kdelibs$(shell echo "$(KDE_VER)+1" | bc)-dev $(KDELIBS_MINVER)
[22:05] <calc> shouldn't a line "echo $(KDE_VER)" work?
[22:06] <wgrant> cjwatson: Is that really all of them, or just those involving main? I expected there to be quite a few differences between universe/multiverse due to some Soyuz races.
[22:07] <cjwatson> wgrant: that's all
[22:07] <cjwatson> modulo script bugs of course, but it doesn't hardcode main
[22:08] <wgrant> cjwatson: Hm. Maybe we detected and got them all fixed already...
[22:08] <cjwatson> wgrant: it doesn't check "source in universe, binaries in multiverse" type problems
[22:08] <wgrant> Right.
[22:08] <cjwatson> which I suspect are more common
[22:08] <wgrant> I was wondering about that, because that happens a bit.
[22:09] <wgrant> Because override changes go wrong when something is in UNAPPROVED or NEW.
[22:09] <cjwatson> might be able to do that, just more complicated logic because that sort of thing is sometimes ok
[22:09] <calc> gar heisenbug
[22:09] <wgrant> Checking for source in universe + all binaries in multiverse, should yield fairly usable results.
[22:10] <cjwatson> yeah, that's true
[22:11] <wgrant> Well, source in some component and no binaries in that component, in general.
[22:12] <cjwatson> http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/architecture-mismatches # warning: not exactly pretty, but patches welcome
[22:12]  * cjwatson goes out for a bit
[22:23] <calc> we are in alpha 1 freeze right now, correct?
[22:23] <directhex> o_o freezes?
[22:23] <directhex> in november?
[22:27] <RainCT> directhex: soft freeze in main, for the CD
[22:27] <RainCT> *alpha CD
[22:27] <RainCT> directhex: seems like you're missing some ML subscriptions ;)
[22:28] <directhex> RainCT, more mailing lists? no ta :|
[22:29] <RainCT> directhex: I think those are send devel-announce or something like that.. low traffic ;P
[23:41] <NCommander> infinity, pitti, ping
[23:43] <NCommander> cjwatson, ping
[23:43] <NCommander> Keybuk, ping?
[23:44]  * NCommander needs someone who can rescore builds :-/


[01:46] <rsalveti> guerby: no new ideas for now :-(
[01:46] <rsalveti> cooloney: maybe you can help us with this issue
[01:47] <rsalveti> guerby: is building gcc at his pandaboard
[01:47] <cooloney> rsalveti: oh, i missed your conversation here
[01:47] <cooloney> rsalveti: need i to help to building gcc?
[01:47] <rsalveti> and after a while the board just hang, without giving any extra message at the serial console
[01:47] <rsalveti> nothing
[01:47] <rsalveti> the heartbeat led stops working
[01:47] <rsalveti> so the kernel is dead
[01:47] <rsalveti> but no trace at the console
[01:48] <rsalveti> cooloney: now how can we debug this kind of issue?
[01:49] <rsalveti> maybe some more debugging around the kernel
[01:49] <cooloney> rsalveti: hmm, still have no clue. need a smalll testcase instead of building a whole kernel package
[01:50] <cooloney> rsalveti: highmem might not be a issue. I've tested the linaro kernel which disabled highmem
[01:50] <cooloney> rsalveti: and we still got that issue
[01:50] <rsalveti> cooloney: but this is not the one we're used to see
[01:50] <rsalveti> in this case the kernel is basically dead, without giving any other message at the console
[01:51] <rsalveti> cooloney: see bug 690370
[01:51] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 690370 in linux-ti-omap4 (Ubuntu) "Strange out of memory on pandaboard (affects: 1) (heat: 10)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/690370
[01:52] <cooloney> rsalveti: oh, my bad, i assume is the old issue
[01:52] <cooloney> rsalveti: thx, man, i will take a look
[01:53] <rsalveti> guerby: can you post tomorrow the instructions needed to run the build at the bug? then cooloney can help reproducing this issue with his board
[01:54] <rsalveti> cooloney: first issue is the page allocation failure when stressing the memory
[01:54] <rsalveti> this is probably caused by the usb driver
[01:54] <rsalveti> I believe it's requesting more memory that it should to work normally
[01:54] <rsalveti> then the other issue while building gcc is this weird hang
[01:54] <rsalveti> no message, no blinking led, nothing
[01:55] <rsalveti> guerby: there's also a new kernel if you want to try, that's the one currently used at natty
[01:55] <rsalveti> same tree but with some new features
[01:59] <cooloney> rsalveti: thx. i was told before building perl is also hang on panda
[02:00] <rsalveti> cooloney: weird, never saw this with my panda
[02:00] <rsalveti> we could try natty's kernel and the one based at 37
[02:01]  * rsalveti brb
[02:58] <TheUni> rsalveti: ping
[08:32] <hrw> hi
[08:43] <AceLan> yo
[09:12] <guerby> rsalveti, ok will post the script I'm using, I will first try to reduce the needed dependencies
[09:12] <guerby> rsalveti, cooloney what are the instructions to install the new kernel?
[09:13] <cooloney> guerby: i normally, built the kernel package and dpkg -x linux-image.deb to get vmlinuz
[09:14] <guerby> cooloney, do you have the .deb somewhere on the web?
[09:14] <cooloney> and use mkimage to generate uImage, then copy it over to the SD card boot partition
[09:14] <cooloney> guerby: oh, 1 second
[09:16] <cooloney> guerby: https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+archive/primary/+files/linux-image-2.6.35-1101-omap4_2.6.35-1101.3_armel.deb
[09:16] <cooloney> guerby: https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-ti-omap4
[09:17] <cooloney> this is the home page of the omap4 kernel in Ubuntu
[09:18] <guerby> cooloney, thx downloading. dpkg -x...
[09:18] <cooloney> guerby: great, man
[09:19] <cooloney> guerby: i am trying to disable the USBLAN driver in the kernel, since i saw too many allocation issue in you reports
[09:19] <cooloney> guerby: and building kernel package in SD card directly not NFS
[09:19] <guerby> cooloney, I have my data over NFS
[09:20] <cooloney> guerby: yeah, I know that
[09:22] <guerby> cp vmlinuz-2.6.35-1101-omap4 /boot
[09:23] <guerby> ln -s vmlinuz-2.6.35-1101-omap4 vmlinuz
[09:23] <guerby> cooloney, no man for mkimage, what should I launch?
[09:24] <cooloney> guerby: oh, that doesn't work, need to use mkimage
[09:24] <cooloney> guerby: are you using ubuntu on host?
[09:24] <guerby> cooloney, yes I'm running all on the pandaboard
[09:24] <guerby> so running ubuntu
[09:25] <cooloney> just apt-get install uboot-mkimage
[09:25] <cooloney> it will give you mkimage
[09:25] <cooloney> guerby: try it and let me know the result. i have to be away for a while
[09:25] <guerby> apt-get update
[09:25] <guerby> cooloney, ok
[09:26] <guerby> mkimage without arg?
[09:30] <guerby> cannot find anything through google on how to run mkimage
[09:30] <guerby> I'm just relaunching my builds
[09:36] <sebjan> guerby: mkimage -A arm -O linux -T kernel -C none -a 0x80008000 -e 0x80008000 -n "Ubuntu Kernel" -d <file> uImage
[09:36] <sebjan> with <file> beeing your vmlinuz
[09:38] <guerby> sebjan, thx, I've now a uImage file. Wonder what the next step is :)
[09:39] <sebjan> guerby: :) this one goes on your boot partition and will be loaded by u-boot on next reboot
[09:39] <guerby> plenty of files still pointing to the old version in /boot (I just changed the vmlinuz symlink)
[09:40] <guerby> sebjan, mount /dev/mmcblk0p1 /tmp/mnt
[09:40] <sebjan> guerby: well, if you want ot make things the 'clean' way, you have to install a new kernel package, which will install the kernel modules, generate and install the new uImage to the boot partition
[09:40] <sebjan> guerby: to be quicker, you can grab the vmlinuz -> ui
[09:40] <guerby> sebjan, cooloney pointed me to https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+archive/primary/+files/linux-image-2.6.35-1101-omap4_2.6.35-1101.3_armel.deb
[09:40] <guerby> sebjan, then asked me to dpkg -x etc...
[09:41] <guerby> sebjan, should I just dpkg -i ?
[09:41] <sebjan> guerby: right: generating the uImage and coying it to the boot partition
[09:41] <sebjan> guerby: hum, if you wan to be able to use the kernel modules, yes, you would have to dpkg -i
[09:42] <guerby> sebjan, so all the dpkg -x and mkimage is not needed?
[09:42] <guerby> (and manual symlink)
[09:43] <sebjan> guerby: right. dpkg -i shall do it all
[09:43] <sebjan> the dpkg -x avoids you to install a new kernel package. So it is a good option for a single test and avoid to 'polute' your file-system with a new kernel package
[09:44] <sebjan> guerby: since you already have you uImage file, you can just give it a try
[09:44] <guerby> sebjan, what about old initrd & all in /boot ?
[09:44] <guerby> I don't have a new uInitrd either for the boot partition
[09:46] <sebjan> guerby: this should not hurt too much (unless you have an encrypted root-fs?). You shall be able to boot, but you will be missing the kernel modules anyway.
[09:47] <sebjan> guerby: and yes, to mount the boot partition: mount /dev/mmcblk0p1 /tmp/mnt
[10:03] <guerby> sebjan, no kernel module means that I won't be able to do anything right?
[10:03] <guerby> no NFS, no openvpn etc...
[10:06] <sebjan> guerby: it will depend if your use-case needs additional kernel modules... For example, you will have ethernet support, so NFS mount may be working.
[10:07] <sebjan> guerby: do you have an easy access to your board, and a way to update the SD card content easily (using your host PC for example?)
[10:07] <guerby> sebjan, yes I can put the SD on my PC if needed
[10:07] <sebjan> guerby: if yes, then it's worth gibing a try. If it fails you'll be able to recover easily by just recopying the original uImage instead of your test one
[10:08] <sebjan> (just keep a copy of your current uImage)
[10:08] <guerby> sebjan, I think I'll just wait for a new image in apt-get upgrade
[10:09] <sebjan> guerby: that's another (easier) option :)
[10:09] <guerby> sebjan, lots of commands to run means lots of potential mistakes and lots of time to recover
[10:09] <sebjan> guerby: sorry I missed the beginning of the thread. why do you want to upgrade your kernel?
[10:09] <sebjan> guerby: (right :))
[10:10] <guerby> sebjan, because the current kernel crashes (board freezed, no LED, no ping) without message anywhere including serial
[10:10] <guerby> sebjan, when I'm just compiling GCC on a NFS mount
[10:11] <guerby> sebjan, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-ti-omap4/+bug/690370
[10:11] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 690370 in linux-ti-omap4 (Ubuntu) "Strange out of memory on pandaboard (affects: 1) (heat: 10)" [Undecided,New]
[10:11] <sebjan> guerby: ok, and you wanted to try alternative kernels (like the Natty one), right?
[10:11] <guerby> sebjan, I also have plenty of messages in /var/log/messages when swap is activated. When swap is inactive user level process get failing malloc
[10:11] <guerby> sebjan, yes anything :)
[10:17] <guerby> (failing malloc while there are many 100MB free/cached)
[11:54] <hrw> can someone take a look at bug 688010?
[11:54] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 688010 in ubuntu-netbook-default-settings (Ubuntu) "Missing dependency on gconf2 (affects: 1) (heat: 8)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/688010
[12:05] <rsalveti> morning
[12:06] <rsalveti> guerby: you can wait and try natty's image
[12:07] <rsalveti> we just need to get the u-boot changes fixed then our daily images will be generated again
[12:07] <guerby> rsalveti, ok will wait :) I'm currently testing bootstrap with C only to reduce the requirements
[12:07] <rsalveti> ok :-)
[14:59] <armin76> guerby: i see you're having fun :)
[14:59] <guerby> armin76, yeah I'm always lucky with new hw
[14:59] <guerby> armin76, I guess I should do web browsing instead of compiling stuff ... :)
[15:00] <guerby> armin76, kernel diagnostic seems to be still in jurassik state ...
[19:43] <efactusa> Hey everyone I just want to thank you all for the wonderful OS on behalf of me and the people of france and the crew at http://www.myefact.com we wouldnt have been able to do half of what we do if it wasn't for Ubuntu so THANKS UBUNTU DEVS!!
[20:59] <rlameiro> hi everyone...
[21:00] <rlameiro> coming back... where are the latest builds for the igep OMAP / A8


[19:09] <p01nt3r> hello. i got the problem that my internal devices aren't recognized when i use the dd command... is there something like a limitation for drives to be detected, maybe on the kernel side during a dd command execution?
[19:10] <p01nt3r> i'm talking about a bay with changeable devices on the sata-port
[19:12] <sixwheeledbeast> I doubt it would be dd, not mounted or wrong mount point?
[19:12] <p01nt3r> last time it seemed that the drives wheren't recognized anymore at all, even after reboot. had to rewrite my whole uefi-system to get it back working
[19:13] <p01nt3r> if i write to an usb-device with dd and put a removable sata-ssd into the internal bay, the drive is not more recognized.
[19:14] <p01nt3r> last time i got strange messages:
[19:15] <p01nt3r> mtd device must be supplied (device name is empty)
[19:16] <p01nt3r> since i rewrote the uefi, this message is gone
[19:16] <p01nt3r> or does this have nothing to do with dd?
[19:19] <p01nt3r> dmesg gave also some strange lines:
[19:19] <p01nt3r> unknown parameter 'windows_names'
[19:20] <p01nt3r> ata6: sata link down (sstatus 0 scontrol 300)
[19:20] <p01nt3r> ata6.00: disabled
[19:21] <p01nt3r> ata6.00: detaching (SCSI 5:0:0:0)
[19:21] <p01nt3r> sd 5:0:0:0 [sdc] stopping disk
[19:22] <p01nt3r> sd 5:0:0:0 [sdc] start/stop unit failed: result: hostbyte=DID_BAD_TARGET driverbyte=DRIVER_=K
[19:22] <p01nt3r> sd 5:0:0:0 [sdc] start/stop unit failed: result: hostbyte=DID_BAD_TARGET driverbyte=DRIVER_OK
[19:22] <p01nt3r> what can this be?
[19:27] <p01nt3r> important to mention: after every reboot the drive was recognized again, but not at hotswap.
[19:28] <p01nt3r> i already thought the hotswap-module in my uefi was broken...
[19:28] <p01nt3r> or sata-module (or whatever)
[19:30] <p01nt3r> and after i reused dd again, i tested to put in an ssd into the bay, but it wasn't recognized for the time dd was running (and the time after, until reboot)
[19:33] <p01nt3r> (after i rewrote the uefi)
[19:33] <p01nt3r> could this be something like maybe a kernel-bug?
[19:34] <p01nt3r> or bug in dd?
[20:03] <p01nt3r> dd-flags were: bs=4M oflag=nocache,sync status=noxfer


[02:30] <mpt> Gooooooooooooooooood afternoon Launchpadders!
[02:38] <mpt> danilos, quite a few questions on rosetta-users@ about "No translatable templates available" messages
[03:04] <jam-laptop> mthaddon: thanks for removing the spam. Any idea how it happened?
[03:05] <mthaddon> not exactly - I'm pretty sure I disabled that account previously - this time I'm sure for certain, so if it happens again we'll know that somehow the spammer is re-enabling their account
[03:07] <jamesh> mthaddon: how did you disable the account?
[03:08] <mthaddon> jamesh: set password is 'invalid' and set status of all rows in the emailaddress table to 3
[03:08] <jamesh> mthaddon: I wonder if that allows the person to reactivate the account?
[03:09] <mthaddon> jamesh: I understand there's a script that should do this more thoroughly, but it's broken at the moment
[03:09] <mthaddon> jamesh: it's possible - I should test it on staging...
[03:10] <mthaddon> except I don't think we have email going out from staging... anyway, I'll see how far I can get
[03:31] <mthaddon> jamesh: oh dear... you can indeed sign up again with the same account details as before
[03:32] <jamesh> mthaddon: spiv had a half finished branch to try and make disabling users easier/more effective
[03:32] <mthaddon> jamesh: although not sure how we'd get around this (it would be trivial for spam users to sign up with a different email address anyway)
[03:32] <jamesh> given the recent spamming, perhaps it should be resurrected and finished
[03:33] <spiv> jamesh: yeah
[03:33] <spiv> jamesh: want to do it for me? ;)
[03:33] <jamesh> perhaps find someone who isn't totally busy on SSO or supermirror :)
[03:33] <kiko-afk> jamesh, spiv, mthaddon: the spam is driving me nuts, and I've been talking about this with salgado and steve
[03:33] <kiko-afk> unfortunately nobody has cycles for 1.1.6
[03:33] <kiko-afk> we have a couple of ideas
[03:34] <kiko-afk> but I need some investigation first
[03:34] <kiko-afk> I'll email about this tomorrow
[03:34] <kiko-afk> not tonight. tomorrow :)
[03:34] <mthaddon> kiko-afk: driving me nuts too :)
[03:34] <spiv> kiko-afk: you'd have time if you just stopped doing all that unimportant manager work, right? ;)
[03:34] <kiko-afk> nobody else wants to do it spiv :-(
[03:35] <kiko-afk> ok TFB
[03:35] <kiko-afk> ZZZ
[03:35] <mthaddon> see ya
[03:35] <spiv> kiko-afk: g'night
[03:35] <kiko-afk> fucking spammers man
[03:36] <mthaddon> jamesh: does your branch you were talking about do this as a script or within the UI?
[03:37] <mthaddon> jamesh: sorry, looks like it was spiv's branch...
[03:37] <jamesh> mthaddon: looks like it is in the UI
[03:37] <jamesh> mthaddon: it is up on the pending-reviews page
[03:37] <mthaddon> jamesh: nice...
[05:45] <ubotu> New bug: #119028 in launchpad "'+' email addresses should be collapsed" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/119028
[08:46] <carlos> morning
[11:40] <ubotu> New bug: #119053 in rosetta "references to rosetta-users mailing list should be removed" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/119053
[01:13] <blink0> Hi folks, I would like to know how to enable the Fn key in my laptop. I could not find a way to ask in Launchpad.net. Can I get any help here?
[01:14] <oojah> blink0: I can't help you myself, but the place in launchpad to ask questions is https://answers.launchpad.net/
[01:54] <Fujitsu> How often does the PPA accepting thingy on dogfood run?
[02:01] <Fujitsu> Ah, every 20 minutes, I see.
[02:02] <cprov> guten morgen, leute !
[02:03] <Fujitsu> Gut nacht.
[02:23] <lfittl> cprov: is the PPA stuff available for testing? (I would really help me to use that stuff for my MOTU work)
[02:23] <cprov> lfittl: yes, beta-testing
[02:23] <lfittl> cprov: ok, where can I sign up? :)
[02:24] <cprov> lfittl: pvt
[03:26] <Fujitsu> cprov: I note that PPA binary accept mails for arch: all have (i386) in the subject line.
[03:28] <cprov> Fujitsu: it's a temporary test/bug. We should not send those when operating *normally*
[03:29] <cprov> Fujitsu: did all the rest work for you ?
[03:29] <Fujitsu> cprov: It looks good otherwise.
[03:29] <Fujitsu> I personally like getting the binary accepts.
[03:29] <cprov> Fujitsu: nice
[03:30] <cprov> Fujitsu: so, we can discuss this later, maybe it's  a good idea to keep them (with better contents, though)
[03:59] <kiko> meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
[03:59] <statik> me 2
[03:59] <Fujitsu> yoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooou
[04:00] <sinzui> me
[04:00] <bigjools> mememe
[04:00] <jsk> me
[04:00] <barry> me
[04:00] <mpt> Ok, compulsory singing lessons at the next Allhands
[04:00] <allenap> me
[04:00] <kiko> me
[04:00] <bac> me
[04:00] <jtv> me
[04:00] <BjornT> me
[04:00] <mthaddon> me
[04:00] <adeuring> me
[04:00] <carlos> laaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
[04:00] <salgado> who's chairing?
[04:01] <kiko> I hope it's SteveA
[04:01] <kiko> but meanwhile, can it be mpt?
[04:01] <stub> me
[04:01] <cprov> me
[04:01] <mwhudson> me
[04:01] <mrevell_> me but also finishing up on PPA marketing call
[04:01] <mpt> okie, MEETING TIME
[04:01] <Rinchen> me and Steve is on a plane
[04:01] <mpt> Who is here who hasn't already said so?
[04:01] <carlos> me
[04:01] <salgado> me
[04:01] <bigjools> Rinchen: you have internet on your plane then? :)
[04:01] <danilos> me
[04:02] <schwuk> me
[04:02] <mwhudson> ddaa: ping
[04:02] <mpt> stub?
[04:02] <stub> (21:01:17) stub: me
[04:02] <Rinchen> bigjools, :-)  me and, oh btw, Steve is on a flight to London.
[04:02] <bigjools> ;)
[04:03] <stub> flacoste: ping
[04:03] <mpt> In case you're wondering what's going on, this is the weekly Launchpad developer meeting
[04:03] <flacoste> me
[04:03] <mpt> For the next half an hour or so, we'll be discussing Launchpad development.
[04:03] <mpt> == Agenda ==
[04:03] <ddaa> here
[04:03] <ddaa> me
[04:03] <mpt>  * Roll call
[04:03] <mpt>  * Agenda
[04:03] <mpt>  * Next meeting
[04:03] <mpt>  * Actions from last meeting
[04:03] <mpt>  * Oops report (Matsubara)
[04:03] <mpt>  * Bug report ([wiki:JoeyStanford/topweeklybugs Current Top Items] )
[04:04] <mpt>  * Bug tags
[04:04] <mpt>  * Operations report (mthaddon)
[04:04] <mpt>  * DBA report (stub)
[04:04] <mpt>  * Sysadmin requests ([wiki:JoeyStanford/toprtrequests Current Queue] )
[04:04] <mpt>  * A top user-affecting issue (mrevell)
[04:04] <mpt> ----
[04:04] <mpt>  * How pre-implementation phone calls are going (barry)
[04:04] <mpt>  * Mini specifications (joey/steve)
[04:04] <mpt>  * Including the RF number when closing bugs (kiko/joey)
[04:04] <mpt> ----
[04:04] <mpt>  * Team three sentences ([wiki:ProjectTeams Team List] )
[04:04] <mpt> ----
[04:04] <mpt> == Next meeting ==
[04:04] <mpt> Anyone who won't be here same time next week?
[04:05] <ddaa> I won't.
[04:05] <kiko> I will
[04:05] <ddaa> (I'll be on vacation for the next two meetings)
[04:05] <mpt> ok
[04:05] <mpt> Er, thanks ChanServ
[04:06] <kiko> Rinchen, did you make this channel +1?
[04:06] <kiko> err +t
[04:06] <mpt> == Actions from last meeting ==
[04:06] <mpt> There were none
[04:06] <jamesh> Chanserv likes me more than mpt
[04:06] <Rinchen> apparently
[04:06] <mpt> == Oops report (Matsubara) ==
[04:06] <salgado> matsubara's not here today --it's a holiday here
[04:06] <mpt> matsubara isn't here, ok
[04:07] <Rinchen> and here comes the oops report...
[04:07] <Rinchen> s/in/is
[04:07] <mpt> == Oops report (Rinchen) ==
[04:07] <Rinchen> Today's oops report is about bugs 61096, 30602, 86361, 5464.
[04:07] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 61096 in rosetta "Rosetta should allow '\r' and '\r\n' in the same msgid/translation" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/61096 - Assigned to Carlos Perell Marn (carlos)
[04:07] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 30602 in rosetta "Timeout errors in +translate" [High,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/30602 - Assigned to Jeroen T. Vermeulen (jtv)
[04:07] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 86361 in malone "Search for duplicate and similar bugs on +filebug sometimes timeout" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/86361 - Assigned to Stuart Bishop (stub)
[04:07] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 5464 in blueprint "+specs page needs batching or redesign" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/5464 - Assigned to Mark Shuttleworth (sabdfl)
[04:07] <Rinchen> This week we had some occurences of OOPSes related to bug 61096. carlos, can
[04:07] <Rinchen> you go on with the fix you proposed in the bug report?
[04:07] <carlos> Rinchen: sure
[04:08] <danilos> Rinchen: I don't think those are related... the OOPSes happened on $\r$\n, which is not the same thing
[04:08] <carlos> will see whether I could do it tomorrow as part of FiF
[04:08] <carlos> danilos: it's the same thing
[04:08] <danilos> carlos: this is allowing both \r and \n in the same string, not \r and \r\n
[04:08] <kiko> carlos, danilos: take it outside
[04:08] <carlos> which is the same thing
[04:09] <Rinchen> Ok, please keep Diogo up to speed on those if you would.
[04:09] <Rinchen> Bug 30602 is our top timeout bug and has been re-assigned to jtv. How's 30602
[04:09] <Rinchen> work going?
[04:09] <kiko> I am giving jtv guidance on 30602
[04:09] <carlos> Rinchen: sure
[04:09] <kiko> I have the email started, it will go out in 1.5h
[04:09] <jtv> The very job this meeting is keeping me away from :-)
[04:09] <SteveA> hi
[04:09] <jtv> Big question is: how do I performance-test that mother.  I'll bother the other kids with that after the meeting.
[04:10] <mpt> Welcome SteveA
[04:10] <kiko> stub, so.. guess SSO has eaten up your free time.
[04:10] <stub> That and the usual stuff
[04:10] <Rinchen> jtv, kiko - thanks.
[04:11] <stub> I've done some work on Bug 86361 but not any significant progress
[04:11] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 86361 in malone "Search for duplicate and similar bugs on +filebug sometimes timeout" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/86361 - Assigned to Stuart Bishop (stub)
[04:11] <Rinchen> stub, you did some work on bug 86361 converting the GIST indexes to the newer
[04:11] <Rinchen> format, right? How's that? Did it take any effect?
[04:11] <kiko> okay.
[04:11] <stub> (indexes changed but hassn't helped enough for those crazy queries)
[04:11] <kiko> stub, did the index change finish?
[04:11] <stub> Rinchen: If we want to skip to the DBA part of the meeting....
[04:11] <kiko> :)
[04:11] <mpt> We could do that if it's helpful
[04:11] <Rinchen> Ok, I'll include the DBA piece back to Diogo
[04:12] <stub> All our GIST text indexes are now GIN.
[04:12] <Rinchen> Bug 5464 is not a problem right now but should be kept on radar. It's the top
[04:12] <Rinchen> soft time out (after 30602); It's an unbatched page which issues repetitive
[04:12] <Rinchen> queries to the DB.
[04:12] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 5464 in blueprint "+specs page needs batching or redesign" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/5464 - Assigned to Mark Shuttleworth (sabdfl)
[04:12] <kiko> Rinchen, okay. can have jon work on that by 1.1.8
[04:13] <Rinchen> Great. That concludes the OOPS report.
[04:13] <mpt> thanks Rinchen
[04:13] <mpt> == Bug report ==
[04:13] <Rinchen> 3 for today
[04:13] <Rinchen> Bug #107912, mthaddon, there was some discussion about  leaving this bug in progress until we move to apache load balancer or whether to assign it to someone who can fix it from here.  jamesh / stub - any words of wisdom?
[04:13] <ubotu> Bug 107912 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/107912 is private
[04:13] <Rinchen> Bug #62612, first reported on 2006-09-27. I bumped this up from high to Critical this week based on a discussion with elmo. mthaddon is working on a fix to relieve some of the current space issues by cleaning out the accepted queues. We still need to look into other areas for cleaning such as old distros. cprov, any ideas there?
[04:13] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 62612 in soyuz "Need a drescher disk space strategy" [Critical,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/62612 - Assigned to Tom Haddon (mthaddon)
[04:14] <jamesh> Rinchen: I think 107912 is fixed, isn't it?
[04:14] <Rinchen> jamesh, it was partly cherried last night
[04:14] <mthaddon> Rinchen: 107912 is okay, the one about the apache load balancer and whether to leave it open til then is bug 118976
[04:14] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 118976 in launchpad "Source IP of site visitors not currently reported in Launchpad logs" [Critical,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/118976 - Assigned to Tom Haddon (mthaddon)
[04:14] <Rinchen> gah
[04:14] <Rinchen> ok, we'll drop that one today then.
[04:15] <jamesh> Rinchen: well, I'm not sure how the load balancer would affect it
[04:15] <cprov> Rinchen: mthaddon should a list of files by this time. IHMO, the fix is trivial and will just work
[04:15] <cprov> Rinchen: about archive-removal for old distros, we will address it in 1.1.7
[04:15] <mthaddon> Rinchen: 62612 is in progress and working fine - should complete today
[04:15] <cprov> Rinchen: basic directions were already discussed and approved
[04:16] <Rinchen> cprov, mthaddon thanks. Is there a new bug for the work in 1.1.7 or will we reuse the existing ticket?
[04:16] <kiko> is everything tom's fault this week!!
[04:16] <Rinchen> hehe, kiko I don't buy that at all
[04:16] <mpt> Is that all for the bugs report?
[04:16] <cprov> Rinchen: there is a spec, https://blueprints.launchpad.net/soyuz/+spec/archive-removal-redesign
[04:16] <Rinchen> mpt,  1 more
[04:16] <mthaddon> Rinchen: not sure about that...
[04:16] <Rinchen> cprov, great thanks.
[04:17] <Rinchen> Bug #65800, first reported on 2006-10-12. mthaddon, I know you've been busy as we've dumped some other critical on you plus normal work. Does this look like it can be done for 1.1.6?
[04:17] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 65800 in launchpad "staging. and demo. should obviously be demos" [Critical,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/65800 - Assigned to Tom Haddon (mthaddon)
[04:17] <mthaddon> Rinchen: I don't see why not, but I'm not sure why it's assigned to me
[04:17] <Rinchen> You agreed to take it last week :-)
[04:17] <Rinchen> Should it belong to someone else?
[04:18] <Rinchen> like mpt?
[04:18] <mpt> It's about code that distinguishes between production and non-production databases
[04:18] <mthaddon> Rinchen: ah, that would explain it :(
[04:18] <mpt> My part of it is already done
[04:18] <mpt> and in the main template.
[04:18] <mpt> Just commented out.
[04:18] <mthaddon> Rinchen: I'll take another look at it and let you know (haven't had time to delve into it yet)
[04:18] <mpt> Somebody on the infrastructure team?
[04:18] <kiko> mpt, I think assigning it to tom is confusing there.
[04:19] <kiko> it just needs a config item
[04:19] <kiko> that's not very difficult to do
[04:19] <mpt> I don't remember if I was the one who did that. If so I apologize.
[04:19] <kiko> and nothing tom would need to do
[04:19] <Rinchen> blame me.
[04:19] <stub> Punt it to me
[04:20] <mthaddon> Rinchen: if I took it, then it's my own fault... thx stub
[04:20] <mpt> This meeting shall be a blame-free zone. Moving on ...
[04:20] <Rinchen> If Tom is the wrong person I happen to know we have cadre of other great developers :-)
[04:20] <Rinchen> stub, thanks.
[04:20] <Rinchen> mpt, done with bugs.
[04:20] <mpt> == Bug tags ==
[04:20] <mpt> There were no tags proposed.
[04:20] <mpt> == Operations report (mthaddon) ==
[04:20] <mthaddon> Business as usual.
[04:20] <mthaddon> Rolled out change to X_FORWARDED_FOR so we now are gathering source IP(s) of visitors - bug 118976 (need to decide whether to close bug or re-assign)
[04:20] <mthaddon> Spam issue - been discovered that current method doesn't prevent users from signing up again with the same email address and continuing to spam
[04:20] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 118976 in launchpad "Source IP of site visitors not currently reported in Launchpad logs" [Critical,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/118976 - Assigned to Tom Haddon (mthaddon)
[04:21] <mpt> mthaddon, anything else?
[04:21] <mthaddon> for 118976, we are now getting two IPs, the source IP and <IP_ADDRESS> in a comma seprated list - not sure whether to leave as is until we move to Apache load balancer or not...
[04:22] <mthaddon> I'd like some input on that bug, but other than that, nothing else
[04:22] <mpt> Who can provide that input on 118976?
[04:22] <mpt> SteveA?
[04:23] <mpt> Thanks Tom for that report
[04:23] <mthaddon> I can follow up later if no-one's biting...
[04:23] <mpt> (and thanks Joey for the bugs report)
[04:23] <mpt> ok
[04:23] <SteveA> I'll talk with mthaddon about htat later
[04:23] <mthaddon> thx SteveA
[04:23] <mpt> cool
[04:23] <mpt> == DBA report (stub) ==
[04:23] <stub> I need to know if there are any DB patches yet to reach my queue so I can schedule a call with Mark for the second round of review.
[04:23] <stub> All our GIST text indexes are now GIN. It has helped a bit, but not nearly enough to mark Bug 86361 solved. I'll look at it a bit more, but I think we are going to need to sort this at Python level by simplifying what queries end up going to the db.
[04:23] <stub> Ideally db patches will be done the release cycle before the code is written - we have had db patches bounced at a late stage already, and if we are able to do this it could save us some rewriting.
[04:23] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 86361 in malone "Search for duplicate and similar bugs on +filebug sometimes timeout" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/86361 - Assigned to Stuart Bishop (stub)
[04:24] <kiko> I want to apologize for not having the DB patch plan in place earlier, which is why we're going to overrun the weekly schedule slightly
[04:24] <kiko> I have a meeting item about this.
[04:24] <statik> stub: when is your meeting? I'd like to sneak a patch in late (next 24 hours or so)
[04:25] <stub> statik: Not scheduled yet, because I wasn't sure what was still inbound. I'll look forward to your patch.
[04:26] <danilos> stub: I'll have a simple patch myself
[04:26] <statik> kiko: i think we are all getting used to the new schedule, but I want to say that I think it is going to start working really well once we get through the first cycle
[04:26] <stub> danilos: eta?
[04:26] <danilos> stub: Monday
[04:26] <stub> ok.
[04:26] <mpt> stub, anything else?
[04:27] <stub> no
[04:27] <mpt> ok, thank you
[04:27] <mpt> == Sysadmin requests ([wiki:JoeyStanford/toprtrequests Current Queue] ) ==
[04:27] <kiko> stub, please see privmsg
[04:27] <Rinchen> I received RT access for the Launchpad queue this week and have done some "dustin' and a cleanin'".  This has enabled me to close a rather surprising number of open tickets. Also the Sysadmin team has also been working on our queue and they have closed quite a few tickets as well.
[04:28] <Rinchen> Does anyone have any urgent RT's that I should be aware of, particularly if they are blocking you?
[04:28] <Rinchen> 5
[04:28] <Rinchen> 4
[04:28] <Rinchen> 3
[04:28] <jtv> Just an annoyance: moin patch
[04:29] <Rinchen> Understood. I can't prioritize that over system requests though, I hope you understand.
[04:29] <jtv> sure
[04:29] <mrevell> Rinchen: 28195 and 28197 are required to get the LP News blog to a state where we can announce it
[04:29] <Rinchen> Right the news and theme iirc
[04:29] <Rinchen> Those are listed as higher priority but I'll look at them again today
[04:29] <mrevell> Rinchen: theme and htaccess
[04:29] <kiko> mrevell, due for 1.1.6 correct?
[04:29] <mrevell> Rinchen: Theme is part way done thanks to mthaddon
[04:29] <mrevell> kiko: Yes.
[04:30] <kiko> thank u
[04:30] <Rinchen> ok, thanks folks. mpt, back to you
[04:30] <mpt> thanks again, Joey
[04:30] <mpt> == A top user-affecting issue (mrevell) ==
[04:30] <mrevell> On 22 June, we are closing the rosetta-users list to new posts. I have posted a message to launchpad-users and rosetta-users about this. There is also a message on the rosetta-users' Mailman page and in the footer of every rosetta-users email.
[04:30] <mrevell> Carlos has already changed the subscription policy to moderated, to prevent people signing up and thereby wasting their time. On 22 June we'll close the list to new posts but leave the archives online.
[04:30] <mrevell> Unfortunately, we can't migrate people from rosetta-users to launchpad-users, so we've asked them to sign up manually.
[04:31] <mrevell> The closure shouldn't have too much impact, as rosetta-users is quite quiet now.
[04:31] <jtv> Isn't it a matter of a mailman mass-subscription?
[04:31] <kiko> jtv, mrevell: I think it's an advantage to garden the list that way, though.
[04:31] <mrevell> kiko: true.
[04:31] <barry> jtv: it's technically possible to migrate, but it may not be socially desireable
[04:31] <carlos> jtv: personal preferences like nomail, digest, etc...
[04:32] <mpt> carlos / danilos, I saw a couple of questions about "no templates available" messages on rosetta-users@, that it would be nice to reply to before it's closed
[04:32] <mpt> unless you've replied to them already
[04:32] <mrevell> carlos and I discussed the fact that launchpad-users is higher traffic, too, so people may not be happy being automatically signed up to it.
[04:32] <danilos> mpt: sure, will get to doing lists after the meeting
[04:32] <mpt> danilos, thanks
[04:32] <mrevell> So, mpt, that's all from me.
[04:32] <mpt> Thanks mrevell
[04:32] <mpt> == How pre-implementation phone calls are going (barry) ==
[04:33] <barry> some reviewers have seen pre-impl phone calls on branches, though only on the new branches. some reviewers have even had pre-impl calls too.  so far feedback is light but positive; reviews seem helpful.  all the new 1.1.6 branches should have pre-impl review calls.
[04:33] <barry> that's status from yesterday's eu/us reviewer's meeting
[04:33] <barry> does anybody here have anything to add, positive or negative?  have you been doing the phone calls?
[04:33] <Rinchen> barry, ...
[04:34] <Rinchen> I saw somewhere a proposal to track if branches have had pre-imps.
[04:34] <Rinchen> is that true?
[04:34] <jamesh> I did a call with carlos today
[04:34] <barry> Rinchen: there's a line in PendingReviews that submitters are supposed to fill in with their pre-impl reviewer
[04:34] <jamesh> which seemed productive
[04:34] <barry> old branches won't have them, but all new branches should
[04:35] <Rinchen> barry, thanks. I'm excited to see how this progresses.
[04:35] <barry> carlos, jamesh: excellent, thanks
[04:35] <jtv> I've had two last week or so, and they were good
[04:35] <mpt> barry, do you want to discuss this again next week?
[04:35] <ddaa> I have mostly informal calls and IRC chats about the design of new code, with teammates. I am currently using that to fill the preimpl review field.
[04:35] <barry> mpt: i think we should keep it on the schedule for the entire cycle
[04:35] <mpt> ok, that seems reasonable
[04:35] <mpt> moving on
[04:35] <mpt> == Mini specifications (joey/steve) ==
[04:36] <Rinchen> SteveA,
[04:36] <Rinchen> and I have developed a way to break-out large items
[04:36] <SteveA> hi
[04:37] <SteveA> right
[04:37] <SteveA> so, our standard spec template on the wiki is great for exploring an issue
[04:37] <SteveA> and examining all its facets and communicating about it etc.
[04:37] <SteveA> however
[04:37] <SteveA> sometimes, we want to take a large task, and break it down into smaller parts
[04:37] <SteveA> so each can be tracked separately within a development cycle
[04:38] <SteveA> so, we've developed a pattern for doing this
[04:38] <SteveA> that
[04:38] <SteveA>  - keeps the content of the specs on the launchpad wiki, without creating lots and lots of wiki pages
[04:38] <SteveA>  - allows the dependency and metadata and targeting to be tracked in the blueprint tracker of launchpad
[04:39] <SteveA>  - has a template for writing a "spec" that is absolutely minimal
[04:39] <SteveA>     while still communicating the scope, the goal/deliverables, and how we'll know when it is complete
[04:39] <SteveA> Rinchen can point out the template and @how to@ guide for this that he put together
[04:39] <SteveA> (excuse UK keyboard)
[04:39] <Rinchen>  wiki:minispectemplate
[04:40] <SteveA> please use this template when doing a minimal spec like this
[04:40] <SteveA> and I recommend you start a big spec with a minimal spec
[04:40] <ddaa> https://launchpad.canonical.com/minispectemplate
[04:40] <SteveA> and enlarge it if needed after that
[04:40] <SteveA> Rinchen: that's all I have to say on this right now
[04:40] <SteveA> thanks ddaa
[04:40] <barry> SteveA: what about existing big specs?  should we split them up into smaller specs to fit them into the cycle?
[04:40] <mpt> Thank you SteveA
[04:41] <Rinchen> thanks SteveA
[04:41] <SteveA> barry: do that if you need to in order to plan things effectively during a cycle
[04:41] <kiko> what SteveA said
[04:41] <mpt> == Including the RF number when closing bugs (kiko/joey) ==
[04:41] <Rinchen> One thing this does due for us is to allow multiple people to have worked assigned to them via the Milestone list
[04:41] <SteveA> you can link from mini specs to larger specs
[04:41] <barry> that makes sense: big specs are for the big picture, mini specs are for actually accomplishing the work within the cycle framework
[04:42] <Rinchen>  I've been relating them to Bug Tasks. In a way a mini spec can be used like a "spec task"
[04:42] <kiko> can we move on?
[04:42] <Rinchen> But it can be used of course for more things.
 == Including the RF number when closing bugs (kiko/joey) ==
[04:42] <mpt> please
[04:42] <kiko> So engineers of the future
[04:43] <kiko> when you mark a bug fix committed, please annotate the change with the RF revision number.
[04:43] <kiko> it's not just a good idea, it's the law.
[04:43] <kiko> EOT
[04:43] <mpt> thank you kiko, and thanks for being brief
[04:43] <mpt> we have a couple more items which hopefully will be as quick
[04:43] <flacoste> actually, the agreed convention was 'Fixed in RF <number>.'
[04:43] <flacoste> (that was agreed in a LP meeting in December)
[04:43] <kiko> thanks flacoste, please email a confirmation.
[04:43] <kiko> this is just me cleaning out an old INBOX item.
[04:43] <sinzui> Do we do this for Fix Release?
[04:44] <mpt> kiko, I e-mailed a confirmation during the week.
[04:44] <kiko> thanks mpt
[04:44] <mpt> == Problems with review process (Danilo) ==
[04:44] <danilos> With lots of non-au reviewers on sprint, others busy with OpenID
[04:44] <danilos> stuff, we've got a bit of a stall in review process (I had bad
[04:44] <danilos> experiences the last week).
[04:44] <danilos> If it's a one off, lets ignore it, but if it's not, lets discuss this
[04:44] <danilos> on list (ping me if you've had bad experiences as well).
[04:44] <danilos> Other's experiences? What went wrong?
[04:44] <danilos> Use the list, I am done.
[04:44] <mpt> Thanks danilos
[04:45] <mpt> == Database patch deadlines for 1.1.6 (kiko) ==
[04:45] <kiko> Okay
[04:45] <kiko> I sent out an email yesterday with a weekly plan for our releases.
[04:45] <kiko> unfortunately we developed this rather late in the cycle
[04:45] <kiko> so
[04:45] <kiko> EXCEPTIONALLY
[04:45] <kiko> for 1.1.6
[04:46] <kiko> we will be opening the database next TUESDAY
[04:46] <kiko> and closing it on THURSDAY
[04:46] <kiko> that means that your patches need to be up for review by MONDAY MORNING BANGKOK TIME
[04:46] <jtv> For the record, is that on the calendar yet?
[04:46] <cprov> danilos: I share this concern about my tasks for 1.1.6 too, reviewers are/will be overloaded, AFAICS
[04:46] <kiko> mark and stub will have a call monday.
[04:46] <kiko> jtv, no, it's 1.1.6-only, so it will only be communicated in email to avoid confusion.
[04:47] <kiko> I will email this to the list now.
[04:47] <kiko> if you have a database patch and this freaks you out, talk to me TODAY
[04:47] <kiko> EOT.
[04:47] <mpt> Thank you kiko
[04:47] <mpt> and finally
[04:47] <mpt> == Team three sentences ==
[04:47] <mpt> Flood the zone
[04:47] <jtv> TEAM: Translations
[04:47] <jtv> DONE: Opening for Gutsy, optimization, #46156, #116196, #116200, post-reviews
[04:47] <jtv> TODO: Complete #30602, #40550, #57460, suggestions filter, Firefox XPI import
[04:47] <jtv> BLOCKED: No
[04:47] <flacoste> TEAM: answer-tracker spec
[04:47] <flacoste> DONE: started implementation of FAQBase, nearly reach consensus on BadgesSpec and RanksSpec, work on supporting English through PersonLanguage.
[04:47] <flacoste> TODO: finish implementation of FAQBase, 1.1.6 bug fixes
[04:47] <flacoste> BLOCKED: no
[04:47] <salgado> TEAM: FOAF
[04:47] <salgado> DONE: Finished fix for bug 70519 and started SSO
[04:47] <salgado> TODO: Finish SSO and bug 53442, land fix for 70519 and
[04:47] <salgado> BLOCKED: no
[04:47] <mthaddon> TEAM: Infrastructure
[04:47] <mthaddon> DONE: Production cherry picks, track down and fix problem with db reconnection (bug 117993), Launchpad-SSO work, triage, oops report, helped salgado with a fix for #1135, linkchecker testing on staging.
[04:47] <mthaddon> TODO: Beta LP Apache. Rollout Documentation, track down and fix problem with db reconnection (bug 117993), Launchpad-SSO work, triage, more linkchecker tests, update oops-tools to categorize exceptions (#118869) and LP to not log TranslationUnavailable exceptions (#118867)
[04:47] <mthaddon> BLOCKED: None
[04:47] <barry> TEAM: mailing lists
[04:47] <barry> DONE: sabdfl reviews completed; updates to specs 99% completed
[04:47] <barry> TODO: resolve last few issues & get big happy checkmark on phase two and three specs; code like mad
[04:47] <barry> BLOCKED: no
[04:47] <mpt> TEAM: UI
[04:47] <mpt> DONE: bug page work, SSO design (mpt), SSO Web work (Victor)
[04:47] <mpt> TODO: SSO coding, finish bug page, bug fixes
[04:47] <mpt> BLOCKED: no
[04:47] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 70519 in launchpad "Need to allow team members to renew their own membership once it gets close to the membership's expiration date" [High,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/70519 - Assigned to Guilherme Salgado (salgado)
[04:47] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 53442 in launchpad "It should be possible to delete distribution mirrors" [High,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/53442 - Assigned to Guilherme Salgado (salgado)
[04:47] <allenap> TEAM: bug tracker
[04:47] <allenap> DONE: Bjorn and Gavin are sprinting in Luxembourg, working on Bug Workflow, Crash Database and bug 114763. Abel has fixed bug 6572. Schwuk was working on bug 58388, but has moved onto bug 116367 which is more pressing.
[04:47] <allenap> TODO: Bjorn, Gavin - bug 114763; Bjorn: Planning for next milestone; Abel - bug 6572; David - bug 58388, bug 116367; Gavin - bug 116364
[04:47] <allenap> BLOCKED: no
[04:47] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 117993 in launchpad "Database reconnection code can get stuck" [Undecided,Fix committed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/117993 - Assigned to James Henstridge (jamesh)
[04:47] <statik> TEAM: Commercialization
[04:47] <statik> DONE: reviews, salesforce integration, recruiting, prototyping, customer interactions,
[04:47] <statik> TODO: salesforce integration, reviews, figure out what can actually fit in 1.1.6 schedule and try to sneak a DB patch in.
[04:47] <statik> BLOCKED: no.
[04:47] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 114763 in malone "View for approving many nominations at once" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/114763 - Assigned to Bjrn Tillenius (bjornt)
[04:47] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 6572 in malone "In distribution bug searches, it should be possible to filter out bugs with open upstream tasks" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/6572 - Assigned to abel (adeuring)
[04:47] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 58388 in malone "Implement a tag command in the email interface" [Medium,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/58388 - Assigned to Dave Murphy (schwuk)
[04:47] <cprov> TEAM: Soyuz
[04:47] <cprov> DONE: PPA journey (code fix and beta-testing) & Soyuz 1.1.6 (all done in pending-review)
[04:47] <cprov> TODO: addressing reviews, starting 1.1.7 specs (commercial-repo & archive-removal)
[04:47] <cprov> BLOCK: no
[04:47] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 116367 in malone "Apport should be able to report private bugs" [High,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/116367 - Assigned to Dave Murphy (schwuk)
[04:47] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 116364 in malone "Better handling of the "this is my bug" +filebug case" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/116364 - Assigned to Gavin Panella (allenap)
[04:47] <ddaa> TEAM: Bazaar integration
[04:47] <ddaa> DONE: smartserver for supermirror up for code review, restricted branch listings for private  branches up for review, UI for branch visibility policy up for review, CodeImportTidbits, ImportdRolloutHowto,  import-status-change-ui, code-import-content-type up for review, code-import-initial-view started, code-import-content-type-consistency started.
[04:47] <ddaa> TODO: extend authserver api for on demand branch access and private branches,  team subscriptions for branches, land private branches, further investigation of codebrowse hangs, more code-import-* implementation, ddaa on vacation.
[04:47] <ddaa> BLOCKED: no
[04:48] <mpt> It appears that nobody is blocked
[04:49] <mpt> which is good
[04:49] <mpt> Any final thoughts?
[04:49] <mpt> 5
[04:49] <mpt> 4
[04:49] <mpt> 3
[04:49] <mpt> 2
[04:49] <mpt> 1
[04:49] <mpt> MEETING ENDS
[04:49] <ddaa> well
[04:49] <mpt> Thank you everybody
[04:49] <bac> allenap: ping
[04:49] <carlos> thanks
[04:50] <ddaa> stub made noises about db patches that should be scheduled on the cycle BEFORE anything that depends on them
[04:50] <ddaa> was that put in the law yet?
[04:50] <ddaa> Rinchen: was it?
[04:50] <stub> I don't know if we can make it law, but it would be a good idea.
[04:50] <flacoste> ddaa: that's the first time I heard about that
[04:51] <ddaa> stub++ it would be a good idea indeed, when possible
[04:51] <flacoste> but having had a patch rejected late in the cycle, I can see the point
[04:51] <Rinchen> ddaa, it's a good idea but we didn't document it anywhere.
[04:51] <ddaa> Rinchen: oh BTW
[04:51] <allenap> bac: hi there
[04:51] <flacoste> stub: i have a DB patch in your queue, but pending-reviews seems to have a problem with it
[04:52] <Rinchen> part of what kiko and I have been poking at with the cycle is to attempt to make these finer details clearer so that we all understand what is due and when
[04:52] <flacoste> it's marked 'Unknown' but the path on PendingReviews seems fine
[04:52] <ddaa> Rinchen: it's likely that my current db patch will get bounced, and that therefore mwhudson and I will miss our 1.1.6 goals, that all depend on it.
[04:52] <kiko> mwhudson,  ddaa, kind of sad, but next time, discuss the idea earlier.
[04:52] <ddaa> kiko: *cough*
[04:52] <stub> flacoste: I'll work it out. ta.
[04:53] <mwhudson> and it also means that we'll be doing work for 1.1.7 that will be depending on a db patch that hasn't been approved
[04:53] <flacoste> stub: thanks, you can always look into the faqbase-model diff which includes faqbase-db
[04:53] <stub> flacoste: Just make sure you have pushed it :)
[04:53] <flacoste> stub: thanks for the reminder, but both are :-)
[04:53] <mwhudson> (though given that ddaa and stub just came up with the new plan together, that shouldn't be too much of a problem, i hope)
[04:54] <ddaa> direction has not been decided yet
[04:55] <ddaa> it's just likely that the current design will be dropped in favour of the new idea
[04:55] <ddaa> but discussion still needs to happen all around the team
[04:56] <stub> flacoste: fti.py creates all the text indexes - you don't need to add them. Just edit the data structure at the top of fti.py
[04:57] <flacoste> stub: i did, so I can remove the CREATE INDEX faq__fti from the DB patch?
[04:58] <stub> flacoste: Yes. All that will do is create a second index. You also don't want the fti column either.
[04:58] <flacoste> stub: good to know!
[05:02] <sabdfl> re bug 5464
[05:02] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 5464 in blueprint "+specs page needs batching or redesign" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/5464 - Assigned to Mark Shuttleworth (sabdfl)
[05:03] <carlos> Rinchen: btw, remember to ping us if your management meeting takes doesn't finish in an hour...
[05:03] <sabdfl> i'm +1 on batching for the page when rendered on Pillar's, where you don't really want to see the full list
[05:03] <sabdfl> but -1 on series, where you do want the full list, because it's the release-management view
[05:03] <Rinchen> carlos, Steve cleared me to attend your meeting
[05:03] <Rinchen> at least, that's what I remember ;-)
[05:03] <sabdfl> at least, as a user of the system in that fashion, that's what i'd like
[05:03] <sabdfl> any objections?
[05:03] <carlos> Rinchen: well, I was suggesting to delay our meeting until you are free
[05:04] <mpt> Is the distrore^Wdistroseries Bugs listing batched?
[05:04] <kiko> hopefully
[05:05] <Rinchen> carlos, "free" is relative :-)   So I can make it happen now.  IRC, voice?
[05:05] <carlos> kiko, danilos, jtv: ^^^
[05:06] <mpt> I don't see why the blueprints listing would be batched differently from the bugs listing (modulo the amount of information shown for each)
[05:06] <kiko> what carlos?
[05:06] <carlos> kiko: 1.1.7 planning meeting?
[05:07] <mpt> anyway, bedtime
[05:07] <kiko> carlos, totally impossible this week for me, want to pre-plan with joey, it's cool.
[05:07] <kiko> sorry
[05:08] <carlos> kiko: I thought this week was the deadline for that
[05:08] <Rinchen> Officially it is but I think kiko wants to delay some of that.
[05:08] <Rinchen> flacoste is already done
[05:09] <Rinchen> I saw your items yesterday
[05:09] <Rinchen> bzr down-under has completed most of theirs
[05:09] <Rinchen> bzr europe has done some work there
[05:10] <carlos> Rinchen: should we meet today then?
[05:10] <Rinchen> hmpf. Well, carlos jtv danilos
[05:10] <carlos> or just wait and meet next week with kiko and you?
[05:10] <Rinchen> we can do a review and try to keep it short
[05:10] <beuno> mrevell: pong   :D
[05:10] <jtv> Do it offline, per email, but with a bit of structure perhaps?
[05:11] <mrevell> beuno: thanks :) On a call at the moment
[05:11] <beuno> mrevell: I'll idle here, just ping me back
[05:11] <Rinchen> in this regard, kiko is the customer. I know you've looked at.
[05:11] <mrevell> beuno: cool
[05:11] <Rinchen> so I'm ok if you want to delay it
[05:12] <carlos> I'm fine with having a meeting with you if it's short
[05:12] <jtv> carlos, Rinchen: and I'm simply available
[05:12] <Rinchen> irc or voice?
[05:13] <carlos> voice++
[05:13] <carlos> danilos: ?
[05:13] <Rinchen> ok, fire up skype and i'll ring you all in
[05:13] <danilos> ah, let me dig out the headset
[06:53] <tarzeau> can i not create a new project on launchpad?
[06:56] <pochu> tarzeau: You can: https://launchpad.net/projects/+new
[06:56] <tarzeau> and join a projects?
[06:57] <pochu> For that you have to join the drivers team, not the project.
[06:58] <tarzeau> how can i do that? i want to be in nethack team
[06:58] <pochu> (Or the bugs contact team, or the security contact team...)
[06:58] <pochu> go to the main page and in the right it says "Driver", "Bug contact"... Click on the team you want to join and join it as with any other team.
[06:59] <tarzeau> says Not yet assigned and is not clickable?
[07:00] <pochu> Then in the left in lifecycle you can see who's registered the project. Ask him.
[07:01] <tarzeau> what if the person who's registered the project is me? what should i ask myself?
[07:02] <tarzeau> ah i found out :)
[07:02] <tarzeau> i'm a driver now
[08:53] <marcin_ant> hi all
[08:53] <marcin_ant> where can I talk about problems with my account in launchpad?
[08:55] <salgado> marcin_ant, here! :)
[08:57] <marcin_ant> salgado: ok, so I don't see bugs reported by me in my account summary
[08:57] <salgado> marcin_ant, can you give me the link to the page in which you expected to see these bugs?
[08:58] <marcin_ant> salgado: https://bugs.launchpad.net/~marcin-antczak/+reportedbugs
[08:58] <marcin_ant> salgado: and for example there is a bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/dbconfig-common/+bug/113310
[08:58] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 113310 in dbconfig-common "dbconfig-common cannot create database for package" [Medium,Fix released]
[08:59] <salgado> marcin_ant, you don't see them there because they're closed already. that page only shows the bugs which are still open
[08:59] <salgado> marcin_ant, that's indeed confusing, but we have a bug reported for it already
[08:59] <salgado> marcin_ant, to see all bugs you reported you can go to the advanced search page
[09:00] <marcin_ant> hmm but that's pretty weird that if we got "fix released" status then this bug is closed... but it doesn't mean that problem is solved
[09:01] <marcin_ant> because in this particular bug fix is availabe as new upstream release - but not available for edgy or feisty users because there is no package with new version
[09:01] <salgado> then it shouldn't be fix released?
[09:02] <marcin_ant> salgado: it depends what you mean by fix _released_
[09:03] <salgado> well, it has been fixed for ubuntu
[09:03] <salgado> but I think this is better discussed on #ubuntu-bugs
[09:04] <salgado> indeed, we should make it clear that the +reportedbugs page doesn't include fix-released bugs
[09:04] <marcin_ant> salgado: for me if this fix is not packaged and available as upgrade for feisty users it's pretty hard to accept this as 'released'
[09:05] <salgado> marcin_ant, I sort of agree with you on that, but this is part of Ubuntu's policy
[09:07] <marcin_ant> salgado: yeah... to be honest after few years with ubuntu I'm more and more dissapointed with all this "ubuntu policy" stuff... but it's not launchpad thing so forget
[09:07] <carlos> night!
[09:56] <stani> Is there a way that people can vote on a feature/blueprint?
[10:09] <kiko> stani, better than voting would be working on it!
[10:14] <RainCT> Hi
[10:15] <RainCT> how can I upload a project to Launchpad?
[10:33] <stani> kiko: i know, but as I work on my project, it would be interesting to see easily what is the most requested feature
[10:35] <kiko> stani, yeah, ISWYM
[10:45] <gianmt> Hi guys, is bazaar.launchpad.net down? I cannot push revisions.
[10:46] <gianmt> RainCT, you mean a bzr repo or tarballs? afaik for tarballs is not yet possible
[10:48] <RainCT> gianmt: bzr, is it possible to create on there?
[11:04] <gianmt> RainCT, sure
[11:05] <gianmt> push the repo on your directory through sftp
[11:06] <RainCT> gianmt: to where?
[11:07] <gianmt> you have an account on launchpad do you?
[11:07] <RainCT> yes
[11:07] <gianmt> so you have a https://launchpad.net/~user directory
[11:08] <RainCT> yea
[11:09] <gianmt> RainCT, just a sec, wife calling
[11:09] <RainCT> okay
[11:13] <gianmt> here I'm :)
[11:13] <gianmt> so you need an ssh publick ke y
[11:13] <gianmt> you can upload it into your profile
[11:14] <RainCT> have one, and uploaded
[11:14] <gianmt> after you have done that you can push you repo with bzr push sftp://bazaar.launchpad.net/~youruser/yourpackagename/trunk
[11:16] <gianmt> uhm...and IIRC you don't even need trunk
[11:16] <RainCT> Permission denied (publickey).
[11:16] <RainCT> bzr: ERROR: Unable to connect to SSH host bazaar.launchpad.net; EOF during negotiation
[11:16] <gianmt> that's an ssh problem, I just push a few revision without any problem
[11:20] <thumper> RainCT: push to<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[11:21] <thumper> the sftp server uses the youruser@ to verify who you are
[11:22] <RainCT> like this? it continues without work..    bzr push<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[11:35] <ubotu> New bug: #119203 in malone "Pie chart labels should be hyperlinks" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/119203
[11:37] <RainCT> thumper, gianmt: now :)
[11:38] <RainCT> I had a key I no longer have on LP
[11:38] <RainCT> probably from my latest Ubuntu installation (overwrote the disc with Feisty), now that I've added the new ones it seems it works :) thanks
[11:39] <gianmt> np :) glad that it works
[11:50] <ubotu> New bug: #119208 in launchpad "fmt:link should work for all linkable objects" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/119208