[07:59] <dholbach> good morning
[08:27] <mitya57> hi dholbach :)
[08:27] <dholbach> hey mitya57!
[08:28] <mitya57> I've written an "Ubuntu" CSS for wpgen, you can enjoy the result @ http://people.ubuntu.com/~mitya57/ubuntu-packaging-guide-readme.html
[08:29] <dholbach> nice
[08:29] <mitya57> (wpgen is my 50-line script that generates webpages from sources using ReText code)
[08:29] <dholbach> very very nice :)
[08:30] <dholbach> I just translated my daily page of packaging guide :)
[08:30] <mitya57> good :)
[08:30] <dholbach> everybody: if you speak a language other than English you might want to consider doing the same: https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu-packaging-guide/ :)
[08:30] <dholbach> we can't let the Spanish and Russian speakers all the fun! :)
[08:30] <dholbach> ... have all the fun...
[08:31] <dholbach> and German is ahead of Japanese! woohoo! Brazilian Portuguese is next! :-P
[08:32] <mitya57> russian on 78% (but that was not me) :)
[08:35] <dholbach> I'll blog about it later on as well
[08:35] <dholbach> this is just great :)
[14:43] <aboudreault> any reason why postgresql 9.2 wont be in the next release?
[14:51] <jpds> In experimental in Debian.
[15:03] <geser> aboudreault: I just asked pitti about in #ubuntu-devel. It's because of the Debian freeze and we have to choose either 9.1 with a lot of extensions or 9.2 without any extensions.
[15:03] <geser> and if you need/want 9.2, it's also in pitti's PPA
[15:03] <aboudreault> jpds, geser. thanks for the answer. I totally understand that.
[15:04] <aboudreault> yeah.
[15:29]  * tumbleweed just wasted hours because I forgot that dpkg-buildpackage in lucid doesn't apply 3.0 (quilt) patches before building
[15:30] <tumbleweed> ...these things we take forgranted...
[15:30] <Laney> I'M DEFINITELY EDITING THIS FILE
[15:30] <Laney> *introduces a deliberate syntax error*
[15:30] <Laney> <program still compiles>
[15:31] <tumbleweed> this was javascript, so not a complied language :)
[15:31] <tumbleweed> it broke at runtime, and I knew I had the patch to make it not break
[15:31] <tumbleweed> but didn't check that I actually did
[15:31] <Laney> runs, same diff
[15:31] <tumbleweed> also, it worked for build-time tests
[15:32]  * tumbleweed must kill the $work lucid machines
[15:33] <tumbleweed> but I guess that means killing the hardy ones first...
[15:56] <xnox> tumbleweed: backport handling 3.0 quilt packages
[15:56] <xnox> tumbleweed: or use bzr dailydeb which can autoapply and convert 3.0 (quilt) to 1.0 packages.
[15:57]  * xnox doesn't think it's an amazing feature, but hey it works.
[17:28] <mitya57> dholbach: here?
[17:28] <mitya57> do you think we can list translators' names on the home page (or anywhere else)?
[17:30] <mitya57> launchpad supports that via `msgid "translator-credits"`
[17:30] <mitya57> (thanks for mentioning /me in the post btw) :)
[17:31] <dholbach> mitya57, if we can get it done I have no objections
[17:33] <mitya57> ok. I'll create a new (temporary) series in LP and see if that works
[17:42] <dholbach> thanks mitya57
[17:42]  * dholbach goes and calls it a day - see you all tomorrow
[18:26] <tumbleweed> xnox: I know now (again)
[23:11] <chilicui1> hggdh: hi, sorry to bother, I'm working on bug #1088131 it seems like an easy to fix one (and not critical), so I've make a ticket in upstream and send them the patch, from the history of upstream I'm sure it'll be added, so should I work in a patch for Ubuntu as well?, how the fix can reach Ubuntu precise? (the version the reporter has in the first place)
[23:14] <hggdh> chilicui1: thank you :-). I thought you would be interested in providing the patch ;-)
[23:15] <hggdh> chilicui1: the ideal is to wait for upstream to commit the patch, then we add (propose) it for Raring. Frankly, although it is a simple change in dircolors.hin, I do not think it is worth of a SRU
[23:16] <chilicui1> hggdh: got it, that's what I though too, then I'll wait, thanks
[23:16] <hggdh> (it does not fix a critical issue. Not even an important one... it is just a cosmetic-ish fix, making sure that ARCes are shown in red
[23:16] <hggdh> chilicui1: yw. Also, thank YOU for working in it.
[23:17] <chilicui1> hggdh: my pleasure


[04:39] <locodir-user> hola
[04:40] <locodir-user> alguien en la sala???
[04:41] <paultag> !es | locodir-user
[04:41] <ubot4> locodir-user: En la mayoría de canales de Ubuntu se habla sólo en inglés. Si busca ayuda en español o charlar entra en el canal #ubuntu-es. Escribe "/join #ubuntu-es" (sin comillas) y dale a enter.
[06:39] <YoBoY> good morning
[06:54] <dholbach> good morning
[12:00] <effie-jayx> hello all
[12:00] <Ronnie> hey effie-jayx
[18:15] <cjohnston> mhall119: should we do something about web dev for developer week? does that fall too far out of the scope?
[18:19] <mhall119> you mean do a class on web development?
[18:19] <mhall119> I think we should have a web dev class, yes
[18:19] <cjohnston> getting involved in the ubuntu type of web development
[18:20] <mhall119> I think one of the times I taught django ws for developer week
[18:20] <cjohnston> like how to start hacking on foundations/hof/ld
[18:20] <mhall119> I think a 'getting started on loco-directory' would be good, yes
[18:21] <mhall119> I'm not sure foundations of hof will be in a good enough state to really be encouraging to new contributors
[18:21] <mhall119> but ld or summit would
[18:21] <mhall119> or the cloud portal
[18:22] <daker> actually the cloud portal is just a wordpress theme ツ
[18:23] <mhall119> oh
[18:23] <mhall119> maybe awstrial then
[18:23] <daker> yes
[18:23] <mhall119> if that's going to be someting that sticks around
[18:23] <mhall119> you'd have to ask DavidLevin
[18:23] <mhall119> gah, Daviey
[18:25] <mhall119> I think LD is the ideal candidate webapp though
[18:25] <Daviey> o/
[18:25] <cjohnston> holy crap Daviey is alive!
[18:25] <Daviey> sadly :P
[18:25] <mhall119> it has the most exposure, it most open to community direction, and has the most defined development model/cycle
[18:25] <mhall119> hey Daviey!
[18:25] <Daviey> awstrial is here to stay fwiw
[18:26] <daker> cjohnston, he is a walking dead :p
[18:26] <mhall119> we're talking about django apps we can use to teach a developer week class
[18:26] <Daviey> awstrial currently needs lots of love. :)
[18:27] <mhall119> but how open is it to community direction?
[18:27] <mhall119> will new features have to be approved by someone at Canonical?
[18:29] <Daviey> mhall119, hmm
[18:29] <Daviey> tricky question
[18:29] <mhall119> yeah
[18:29] <Daviey> i guess it depends what a 'feature' is.
[18:29] <Daviey> i mean, this differs from some other projects - in so far that it actually costs some money per visitor
[18:30] <mhall119> yeah
[18:30] <mhall119> and also it's directly used by Canonical to market a product
[18:30] <Daviey> so having the person paying, canonical, does make sense for them to ack a feature.. i think
[18:30] <Daviey> hmm
[18:30] <Daviey> product or project?
[18:30] <mhall119> product, it's being used to sell Ubuntu on the cloud
[18:31] <Daviey> hmm
[18:31] <Daviey> I don't think it's that straight forward...
[18:31] <Daviey> Amazon make money out of that, i can't see how Canonical do.
[18:31] <mhall119> it's a promotion
[18:31] <mhall119> advertising if you will
[18:32] <Daviey> hmm
[18:32]  * Pendulum hugs Daviey
[18:32] <mhall119> Canonical will want more control over what is said/claimed/offered on 10.cloud.ubuntu.com that on loco.ubuntu.com
[18:32] <Daviey> yeah, that is true
[18:33] <Daviey> keep in mind that iirc LD idea came from Canonical, didn't it?
[18:33] <cjohnston> i thought that was nixternal
[18:34] <Daviey> He was the first contributor... didn'tthink it was his idea
[18:34] <Daviey> We discussed it at Mountain view
[18:34] <cjohnston> o
[18:35] <mhall119> wherever it came from, we've been given quite a bit of freedom in choosing it's direction and features
[18:42] <Daviey> oh aye.
[18:44] <mhall119> if we're going to bring in several new contributors, we're going to need to be flexible with new ideas and features
[18:44] <mhall119> the last thing we want to do is to have to reject features
[18:46] <cjohnston> as long as they are valid and worthwile
[18:46] <mhall119> not that we wouldn't have to reject features to LD, but we (community contributors) would have more discretion


[00:25] <LABcrab> Hello!
[01:07] <pmatulis> hello
[07:25] <redasus> hey
[07:26] <redasus> I'm getting SSL23_GET_SERVER_HELLO:unknown protocol when using nginx to serve my site through https on an aws ec2 ubuntu server
[07:27] <redasus> any help is appreciated
[07:34] <lordievader> Good morning.
[08:31] <Blueking> patdk-lap   u there ?
[08:32] <Blueking> patdk-wk u there ?
[10:05] <Blueking> someone here have been into dhcp server/dhcp dhclient and lease renew ip problems with dhcp server (on ISP side) that fails getting NAK  -> suspect value in host_name option - discarded  and disconnects from net ?
[10:27] <Blueking> what versions of dhcp for ubuntu 14.04 are there out now ?
[11:20] <Deeps> Blueking: packages.ubuntu.com will tell you
[11:24] <Blueking> ok   versions I know about are dhcp dhcp3  any other ?   (not server version)
[16:30] <Blueking> patdk-wk u there ?
[17:13] <trippeh> hum, my debmirror is no longer fetching i18n/Translation-en for xenial main from archive.ubuntu.org
[17:16] <trippeh> hm, more stuff seems broken. :)
[17:48] <trippeh> oh, I have Acquire::Languages "en"; set in my apts which may recently have starting tripping things up.
[17:52] <trippeh> official mirrors seems to have i18n/Translation-en tho.
[17:54]  * patdk-lap has no issues
[17:54] <patdk-lap> I just upgraded 3 machines today
[17:54] <patdk-lap> just a few min before you started complaining :)
[18:12] <halvors1> Ubuntu server network confiuguration is handled by /etc/network/interfaces.
[18:13] <halvors1> What proram is actually dealing with this?
[18:13] <halvors1> And is there any way to make iproute2 persistent?
[18:13] <halvors1> Like /etc/network/interfaces, since it seems to be lacking a lot of features provided by iproute2
[18:14] <tarpman> halvors1: /etc/network/interfaces is handled by the programs in the ifupdown package. which feature are you looking for exactly? some other packages extend ifupdown, but their additions aren't necessarily documented in interfaces(5)
[18:15] <halvors1> tarpman: I was looking for VRF support, as well as IP-IP tunnels, and DHCPv6 prefix delegation client using isc-dhcp-client.
[18:16] <halvors1> VRF support like described with iproute2 here: https://www.kernel.org/doc/Documentation/networking/vrf.txt
[18:16] <halvors1> I'd like mye network configuration to be persistent :)
[18:17] <tarpman> sounds like a reasonable thing to want :)
[18:18] <halvors1> There is no way to do that with iproute2?
[18:19] <halvors1> tarpman: Do you have any idea how to do this with ipupdown? Or add packages to it that implements this?
[18:20] <tarpman> I haven't heard of VRF before, so I'm googling around quickly to see if I can figure that out
[18:21] <tarpman> the only way I know of persisting iproute2 changes is to run it in scripts... whether a custom init script, or /e/n/i pre-up/post-up hooks, or such
[18:21] <halvors1> tarpman: VRF is virtual routing, meaning that you basically have separate routing table for devices etc.
[18:21] <halvors1> Often one for each VLAN. To separate routing as well as the local link.
[18:22] <halvors1> How do i add such a script/hook?
[18:22] <tarpman> reading http://lwn.net/Articles/654541/, very cool
[18:26] <patdk-lap> hmm, iproute has no persistance
[18:26] <patdk-lap> it's kind of like asking ifconfig to be persistant
[18:26] <patdk-lap> you need a manager to do that persistance
[18:26] <patdk-lap> I know quagga was getting vrp support I think
[18:26] <patdk-lap> and strongswan
[18:27] <patdk-lap> but really, if ifup/down scripts are too complex
[18:27] <patdk-lap> it might be enough to just use up down command to launch iproute2
[18:29] <trippeh> VRF in iproute is very new, so probably nothing existing to integrate it with ifupdown yet
[18:29] <trippeh> but the DHCPv6 PD not beeing supported is getting kind of old :)
[18:30] <trippeh> (altough isc-dhcp-clients support for it is kinda crappy, or at least was not long ago)
[18:30] <patdk-lap> I have never been able to get isc-dhcp to do pd correctly, as much as I tried
[18:30] <patdk-lap> worked fine with widedhcp
[18:31] <Blueking> patdk-lap hello
[18:31] <trippeh> I guess we can only hope systemd-networkd implements it ;-)
[18:33] <Blueking> patdk-lap u know your stuff on networking  and knows wireshark and so on ?  have a look at dhcp.pcap file ?
[19:30] <Curly_Q> Can someone here talk a bit about the difference of using JAVA versus PHP and MYSQL on an Ubuntu server. Just a few questions. Maybe more if it is interesting. The first question is: Is Java or PHP or MYSQL secure and does it have certain vulnerabilities?
[19:31] <Curly_Q> I have a Headless Apache2 server i386
[19:32] <Blueking> tj
[19:33] <Curly_Q> Also is a 64 bit Ubuntu server backwards compatible with older versions of Ubuntu?
[19:38] <Curly_Q> Compatibility meaning that is a 64 bit machine will apt-get compatible downloads if a 32 bit installation is installed?
[21:47] <readonlyomg> im having some serious ready only filesystem issues and i cant for the life of me establish whats going on other that the ata 6  faileure im getting


[01:52] <DBO> BenC, just a follow up on what we talked about yesterday.  In a spurt of amazingly horrible luck... its not panicing...
[01:52] <BenC> lol
[01:52] <DBO> if I didnt have bad luck, I wouldnt have any
[01:53] <DBO> Im sure it will go eventually, when I first installed I went about 3 days before it started locking
[02:03] <BenC> Ok, just let me know when :)
[02:04] <crimsun> is this the snd-pcm-oss freeze, or...?
[02:05] <DBO> no
[02:05] <crimsun> ok.
[02:05] <DBO> its a more generic issue, im sorry I been running in circles
[02:08] <DBO> to be honest crimsun, I am getting very frustrated, but I want to thank you for the help you provided earlier.  We are using kexec tools (with bens help) to fiqure out the exact cause of the panic now.  Only thing is... its not doing it...
[02:08] <DBO> Sods law
[10:10] <flukebox_> hi
[10:10] <flukebox_> anybody here ??
[11:01] <dade`> BenC: i think that the gutsy kernel sould have CONFIG_TIMER_STATS enabled by default
[11:01] <dade`> to use linuxpowertop
[11:21] <elmarco> I have a T60, when I dock it, the serial interface (ttyS0) is not working anymore
[11:21] <elmarco> should I file a bug in kernel.org, or launchpad?
[11:21] <elmarco> or is it a non-bug?
[11:21] <elmarco> (dock/undock)
[11:30] <maks_> mjg59 if you have an ipw2200 patch i can test it on my x41
[11:30] <maks_> preferably against 2.6.21, but otherwise fine too
[01:35] <Keybuk> http://linux-ata.org/shutdown.html
[01:35] <Keybuk> ^ so that explains *those* bgs
[01:36] <kylem> yeah.
[01:36] <kylem> grumble.
[01:36] <kylem> want me to fix upstart?
[01:36] <Keybuk> nah, it's ok, I'll tackle it -- I want to sort out the ide bits while in there
[02:15] <Keybuk> actually, this description is wrong, so I'm going to write to the author
[02:21] <Keybuk> kylem: could I borrow you for a moment
[02:21] <kylem> ys.
[02:22] <Keybuk> so, ide_device_shutdown()
[02:22] <Keybuk> this is called during the reboot() syscall, right?
[02:23] <kylem> looks like it.
[02:24] <Keybuk> kernel_power_off -> kernel_shutdown_prepare -> device_shutdown -> *.shutdown -> ide_device_shutdown
[02:24] <Keybuk> this would appear to just flush the cache on everything except power off
[02:24] <Keybuk> for power off, it calls suspend() on the bus? is that right?
[02:25] <kylem> hrm.
[02:26] <kylem> looks like it, yeah.
[02:27] <Keybuk> that would appear to be generic_ide_suspend()
[02:28] <Keybuk> which pushes the state machine into flushing the cache and powering down the drive
[02:42] <Keybuk> kylem: have mailed linux-ide, that page is particularly unclear to me
[02:42] <Keybuk> it seems to refer to workarounds that other distros (not us) have done
[02:42] <Keybuk> and penalises us for never having broken things in the first place
[02:43] <Keybuk> at least that explains the clicking noise bugs we've had for ages
[02:43] <Keybuk> (for the ide subsystem, not libata:
[02:43] <kylem> yup.
[02:43] <Keybuk>  - reboot standbys the drive
[02:43] <Keybuk>  - calls reboot()
[02:43] <Keybuk>  - which flushes the cache, spinning the drive back up
[02:43] <Keybuk>  - and standbys the drive again
[02:43] <Keybuk> )
[02:44] <Keybuk> it doesn't explain why we should have to touch libata, since we never tried anything with those
[02:44] <Keybuk> and since I'm going to have to write code for libata, allegedly, I'd rather get an answer *why* we have to, if there's code to be written, it's just as easy to write it in the kernel
[02:49] <BenC> Keybuk: but it would be specific to our kernel :/
[02:50] <BenC> since they obviously know they can't put the real fix in the kernel because other distros already fucked up, it means we'll be carrying around a patch just for us
[02:52] <Keybuk> actually, I mean for the case where halt/reboot still apparently has to issue the commands on a per-disk/driver basis
[02:52] <Keybuk> if it's "a few drivers haven't been fixed yet", then it's easier for us to fix those drivers than halt/reboot, no?
[02:53] <BenC> ah, true
[02:53] <Keybuk> my concern is that even after writing 0, I might need that code
[02:53] <Keybuk> and since I'll have to write that code, is there more useful code I could write instead?
[02:59] <ogra> BenC, i did some measurements for the ltsp slowness comparing tcp and udp based nfsroot ... and found very intresting numbers ...
[03:00] <BenC> ogra: udp is faster?
[03:00] <ogra> would you agree that udp should be faster ?
[03:00] <BenC> I would think so, but depends I guess
[03:00] <ogra> using the classmate as client:
[03:00] <ogra> udp 10.9M/s , real: 9.420s
[03:00] <ogra> tcp 11.6M/s , real: 8.887s
[03:00] <ogra> using the slow e2300 jim tested with as client:
[03:00] <ogra> udp 2.4M/s , real: 42.763s
[03:00] <ogra> tcp 3.6M/s , real: 28.656s
[03:00] <mjg59> This is on 100MBit?
[03:00] <BenC> wow
[03:01] <ogra> thats always dding a 100M file from the nfsroot to /dev/null
[03:01] <ogra> mjg59, yep, a gigabit card in my lappie which acts as server dmegs tells me it negotiates 100M FD
[03:02] <BenC> so it's a direct cable too, no switch/hub?
[03:02] <kylem> nfs sucks, news at 11.
[03:02] <mjg59> I think the classmate figures are close enough together for the difference not to be terribly meaningful
[03:02] <ogra> i would expect some significat difference between udp and tcp
[03:02] <mjg59> On a duplex connection?
[03:02] <ogra> yeah
[03:02] <mjg59> Why? The overhead isn't going to be that great
[03:03] <BenC> I think the more important numbers are the 2.4M/s on the e2300 compared to the 10.9M/s on the classmate :)
[03:03] <mjg59> The e2300 figures are much more interesting
[03:03] <ogra> hmm, but udp is even slower .... i would expect a connectionless thing to be always faster
[03:03] <mjg59> ogra: On the Classmate, the figures are close enough that they're probably effectively identical
[03:03] <ogra> well, the e2300 has a 200Mhz CPU
[03:03] <ogra> the classmate is a celeron 900
[03:03] <ogra> *celeron M
[03:04] <mjg59> The Classmate is clearly limited by the network
[03:04] <ogra> yeah
[03:04] <mjg59> The question is what the limiting factor on the e2300 is
[03:04] <mjg59> What does top look like during that?
[03:04] <ogra> where ? on the server
[03:04] <ogra> i cant run top wile booting
[03:04] <ogra> *while
[03:04] <ogra> (on the client)
[03:04] <mjg59> You're dding a file
[03:04] <mjg59> To /dev/null
[03:05] <mjg59> If you can do that, you can run top :)
[03:05] <ogra> ah, that yeah
[03:05] <ogra> indeed, i'm into bootspeeds etm, sorry
[03:05] <ogra> *atm
[03:05] <ogra> let me reboot to get to a shell ...
[03:05] <ogra> takes 3 min ...
[03:07] <ogra> oh, btw i'm using busybox mount for udp atm as opposed to klibc nfsmount for tcp ...
[03:07] <mjg59> Should make no difference
[03:08] <ogra> dd takes 90% CPU
[03:08] <ogra> 95 now
[03:08] <ogra> 3% for rpciod
[03:09] <ogra> intrestingly i also seem to get no caching ... running the dd command a second time should give faster results, no ?
[03:11] <mjg59> Not if the file is approximately all your memory, no...
[03:11] <ogra> well i have 128M
[03:11] <ogra> oh, wait
[03:11] <ogra> why does top only show 64 ?
[03:11] <ogra> hmm
[03:12] <mjg59> ...
[03:14] <ogra> ok, 64M videoram and 64M shared mem ...
[03:14] <ogra> switched that to 8M each
[03:15] <ogra> ok, that looks different ... 118M now
[03:18] <ogra> ok, caching seems to work ....
[03:18] <ogra> dropped from 24 sec to 12
[03:18] <ogra> on the second run
[03:20] <BenC> ogra: oooh...64Megs of mem, that'll do it
[03:20] <BenC> I accidentally booted to gnome desktop with 64Megs of mem while doing kdump stuff
[03:20] <BenC> was horrible
[03:21] <ogra> well, it didnt help much
[03:21] <ogra> still 24sec for that file
[03:21] <ogra> and still 3min bootimes
[03:21] <ogra> 3min+
[03:22] <ogra> while ltsp 4.2 stays below a minute
[03:22] <mjg59> ogra: And top while dding it (for the first time, avoiding caching)?
[03:23] <BenC> 4.2 is the one that doesn't do nfsroot, but does nfsmount and symlinks, right?
[03:23] <ogra> dd eats all CPU it can
[03:23] <ogra> BenC, right, we tried that in our initramfs ... smae results
[03:23] <mjg59> Ok. So you're CPU limited, not network limited.
[03:23] <ogra> right
[03:23] <mjg59> Can you try an older kernel?
[03:24] <ogra> but there is still that significant difference between 4.2 and 5
[03:24] <ogra> yeah
[03:24] <mjg59> Try the 4.2 kernel
[03:24] <ogra> i tried the edgy one already (4.2 uses 2.6.18)
[03:24] <mjg59> And?
[03:24] <ogra> no difference
[03:25] <mjg59> Then this would seem to be the wrong place to be bringing the issue up :)
[03:25] <ogra> no difference between our kernels i mean
[03:26] <mjg59> And with the LTSP kernel?
[03:26] <Mithrandir> have you tried ltsp 4.2 with the feisty kernel too?
[03:26] <ogra> not yet
[03:27] <ogra> i'll poke around with both today ... but clearly something is different with our nfsroot ...
[03:27] <ogra> debians kernel isnt much faster btw
[03:27] <Mithrandir> all this is pointing towards this being a userspace problem, then.
[03:28] <ogra> we tried their chroot as well
[03:28] <mjg59> Either there's a difference between the ltsp 4.2 kernel and our kernel
[03:28] <ogra> well, i thought i found the magic bullet when i saw the 4.2 is only faking nfsroot with tmpfses ... but that didnt change anything for us
[03:28] <mjg59> Or it's a userspace issue
[03:29] <ogra> hmm
[03:29] <mjg59> So, test performance with the 4.2 kernel
[03:29] <ogra> will do
[03:29] <mjg59> If it's three times better, then we have a kernel issue
[03:29] <mjg59> If not, it sounds like a userspace one
[03:31] <ogra> ok
[03:34] <zul> BenC: whats on the agenda?
[03:34] <BenC> basically just recap of UDS
[03:35] <zul> cool
[03:53] <ogra> oh, i just noticed ... CPU: Vendor unknown using generic init ....
[03:53] <ogra> but according to jammcq that shows up in 4.2 as well
[04:53] <maks_> BenC: do you disable CONFIG_IRQBALANCE ?
[04:53] <maks_> "The in-kernel irq balancer is obsolete and wakes the CPU up far more than needed."
[04:53] <maks_> says powertop
[04:54] <BenC> disabled in last kernel upload
[04:54] <maks_> thanks for info :)
[04:59] <BenC> sorry for time change, meeting is scheduled for 1 minute from now
[05:00] <zul_> ack..
[05:12] <Mithrandir> UTC is hard. :-P
[05:13] <racarr> I'm even more confused by the fact that it's supposed to be a kernel meeting but they seem to be confirming new members.
[05:14] <zul> well obviously its not a kernel meeting just yet
[05:14] <Mithrandir> it's because the previous meeting used too much time
[05:14] <Mithrandir> they're rounding up now
[05:18] <maks_> heya
[05:18] <BenC> everyone here that needs to be?
[05:19] <BenC> pkl_, rtg, kylem, cjwatson, zul: ping?
[05:19] <zul> yep
[05:19] <pkl_> BenC: here
[05:19] <rtg> BenC: hmm?
[05:20] <BenC> Ok, so basically this meeting was just to go over some things from UDS
[05:20] <BenC> I'm late getting a real agenda up, so please bare with me
[05:21] <BenC> Some of the topics we discussed at UDS (and kernel team, feel free to plug things I forgot):
[05:21] <BenC> * Wireless
[05:21] <BenC> * Power savings
[05:22] <BenC> * Ceashdumps
[05:22] <BenC> crashdumps I mean
[05:22] <BenC> * Ubuntu Mobile and Embedded
[05:23] <BenC> * Virtualization (lightly)
[05:23] <BenC> So we'll go from the top
[05:23] <BenC> rtg: do you want to give us a summary of wireless stuff?
[05:23] <rtg> I spent a day with Luis Rodriguez, Marcel Holtmann, and Anaky Perez Gonsales designing a frequency broker.
[05:23] <rtg> Also much activity regarding software designed radios and regulatory compliance.
[05:24] <BenC> that's the one announced to kernel-team@ that I've still to read :)
[05:24] <rtg> mac80211 development is proceeding briskly.
[05:24] <rtg> I', lookingat adding support for ntl80211 in wpa_supplicant.
[05:25] <rtg> I guess thats the big 3 items for me.
[05:25] <BenC> Sounds good
[05:26] <rtg> thats all...
[05:26] <BenC> I know Luis said that mac80211 in 2.6.22 isn't doing to be complete, but I was able to compile iwlwifi against it without problems (except an sk_buff change)
[05:26] <rtg> I haven't quite figured out how to actually use it.
[05:27] <rtg> That was why I got distracted by wpa_supplicant
[05:27] <BenC> Might be some docs on it somewhere
[05:27] <rtg> Its in the source :)
[05:27] <BenC> Ok, power savings, unfortunately Amit isn't with us yet
[05:27] <BenC> But we now have NO_HZ in the kernel, and TIMER_STATS, so we are able to use powertop to see what is waking up our CPU so much
[05:28] <BenC> mjg59 is already working on getting patches into userspace programs which heavily show up in powertop output
[05:29] <BenC> we have some drivers on the hitlist too, so we'll be addressing that during gutsy cycle
[05:29] <maks_> bluetooth is really bad afais
[05:29] <BenC> yeah, it's the worst offender on my laptop
[05:29] <pkl_> there was some discussion of various patches to glibc and other user-land libraries to aggregate timer ticks.
[05:29] <BenC> and ipw3945 follows behind it
[05:29] <BenC> pkl_: gnome is the main one, from what I can tell
[05:30] <BenC> not sure if it makes sense to patch up sleep in glibc to aggregate things
[05:30] <BenC> there's a spec for all this, so we can add the main issues in there
[05:30] <pkl_> there seems to be couple of patches floating around doing the samething, but diferently.
[05:31] <rtg> Intel has some kernel patches that also consolidate wakeups.
[05:31] <BenC> yeah, we'll be checking into those as well
[05:31] <rtg> http://www.linuxpowertop.org/powertop.php
[05:32] <BenC> gutsy should be a nice release for laptops, and we'll probably add powertop to our normal testing to keep from having regressions on stock desktops
[05:32] <rtg> I believe you referred to gutsy as 'a laptop users wet dream' :)
[05:32] <BenC> yes, that's a direct quote :)
[05:33] <BenC> Ok, crashdumps...
[05:34] <BenC> I've uploaded a kexec-tools that includes an init script and an initramfs script to actually grab vmcore on dumps
[05:34] <maks_> i'd be interested in merging that
[05:34] <BenC> I plan on making a simple linux-crashdump-{generic,server,...} meta package to install all the right things (kexec-tools, linux-debug-image, etc) and automatically setup grub menu to do all this
[05:35] <BenC> maks_: remind me and I'll send you the scripts
[05:35] <BenC> So the only stopper right now is that the crash program cannot process 2.6.22 vmcore's
[05:35] <maks_> ok will do, thanks
[05:36] <BenC> but I expect that will come as 2.6.22 gets closer to release
[05:36] <BenC> I want it sooner, so we can actually make use of it though
[05:36] <BenC> probably work on patching crash soon
[05:36] <BenC> Martin(pitti) is working on apport integration so we get nice automated bugs from vmcore dumps
[05:37] <BenC> and with crash we can analyze bugs that before we couldn't even see (panic's during X that locked up the system)
[05:38] <BenC> Ubuntu MaE, not a lot of discussion for this in regards to the kernel
[05:38] <BenC> we're going to have a special kernel just for this project, and will be mostly integrating patches for drivers and optimizations
[05:38] <BenC> * Virtualization, seems to be no better than it was in feisty
[05:39] <BenC> zul: any word on xen+2.6.22?
[05:39] <BenC> I'd be happy with just domU support, especially since we have a bug that says even the one kernel where xen existed, didn't support being booted as dom0 anyway :)
[05:39] <zul> BenC: updating it to xen-3.1 is going slowly, dumped suse's patch in favour of redhat's again
[05:40] <zul> as usual its going slowly again,
[05:40] <zul> oh and someone else will probbaly need to take care of openvz or I will suffer a nervous breakdown
[05:40] <BenC> I know your quite busy nowadays, perhaps checking the lists for help would be a good idea?
[05:41] <zul> yep already talking to the redhat folks
[05:41] <BenC> openvz we'll be leaving to openvz, so don't worry about that
[05:41] <zul> sweet
[05:41] <BenC> zul: there has to be some ubuntu users that are interested in xen...maybe try the ubuntu devel or kernel-team lists?
[05:41] <zul> sure Ill do that when I get home
[05:42] <BenC> I know we have vendors interested in xen on our lists, so maybe they can pitch in
[05:42] <BenC> I could give you a list of ones, but I think it's best they speak for themselves :)
[05:43] <zul> heh...actually im talking to quintela right now
[05:43] <BenC> that's the end of my list...any additional topics anyone wanted to bring up
[05:43] <BenC> ?
[05:43] <zul> he is the redhat xen kernel maintainer
[05:44] <BenC> cool
[05:44] <zdzichuBG> when feisty kernel update is planned?
[05:44] <BenC> good question
[05:44] <BenC> pkl_: how's feisty looking for an upload?
[05:44] <BenC> pkl_: could you send the current output of "debian/rules printchanges" to kernel-team for review?
[05:45] <pkl_> good, I just need to get someone to test the latest patch tifm driver
[05:45] <Keybuk> kylem: we win
[05:45] <pkl_> yeah, there's mostly security and sparc changes.
[05:45] <BenC> could probably do a i386 -generic build for the folks on the tifm bug report
[05:45] <zdzichuBG> pkl_: thinkpad sound after suspend bug?
[05:46] <BenC> pkl_: did the kvm changes in latest git get reverted to match the released kernel?
[05:46] <BenC> zdzichuBG: is there a patch?
[05:46] <pkl_> BenC: yes
[05:46] <zdzichuBG> BenC: yes, and testes kernels: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-source-2.6.20/+bug/80893
[05:46] <BenC> pkl_: ok, do you know if current feisty git has an ABI change or not?
[05:47] <Keybuk> http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.ide/18846
[05:47] <pkl_> yes, ABI bumped
[05:47] <BenC> zdzichuBG: since you're interested, can you post the patch to kernel-team@, and CC Phillip Lougher<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[05:47] <pkl_> one of the security patches, can't remember which one off-hand
[05:48] <BenC> pkl_: Ok...let's get the tifm thing tested asap, get an upload ready, and we'll do some builds for a first round of testing with distro folks
[05:48] <pkl_> OK.
[05:48] <zdzichuBG> BenC: will do
[05:49] <BenC> zdzichuBG: it wont make this upload, but we'll see about queuing it up for next one, or -updates
[05:49] <pkl_> I was looking into a Unionfs bug, but is not urgent.
[05:50] <BenC> Any other issues to speak of?
[05:50] <pkl_> this indirectly affects whether we go for Unionfs 2.x or Unionfs 1.x in Gutsy.
[05:50] <pkl_> nope.
[05:51] <BenC> Ok, thanks everyone
[05:54] <Keybuk> oops, sorry for interrupting the meting there
[05:54] <BenC> Keybuk: np, we had to move from #ubuntu-meeting because CC meeting ran long
[05:54] <maks_> BenC i've some initramfs-tools fixes that might be interesting to sync
[05:55] <maks_> i'll ping you once 0.88 is fine in sid
[05:55] <BenC> maks_: ok
[05:56] <BenC> pkl_: if you could look at the unionfs I have in linux-ubuntu-modules-2.6.22, and let me know if it's suitable for at least our livecd, I'd appreciate it
[05:57] <BenC> it's 1.x
[05:57] <Keybuk> BenC: so, the good news is, remember we talked about the whole ide spin down thing?
[05:57] <Keybuk> well, the ide subsystem is right by default - we can drop the scary ioctl shit from /sbin/reboot
[05:57] <BenC> Keybuk: yeah, I read the backlog with kyle
[05:57] <Keybuk> and the libata subsystem is in the process of being fixed; and it turns out we're getting it fixed better than the patch in 22-rc1
[05:57] <BenC> so 2.6.22 will be good?
[05:58] <Keybuk> currently there's an odd compat_shutdown patch in there, which requires us to update shutdown, blah blah blah
[05:58] <Keybuk> all this to not break one or two distros that tried to shutdown libata stuff in /sbin/halt/reboot
[05:58] <Keybuk> so the author is reworking the patch to favour distros like us by default that never broke things in the first place
[05:58] <Keybuk> yup, looks like 22 will be sweet
[05:58] <Keybuk> our /sbin/reboot can be a wrapper around reboot() :p
[05:59] <BenC> nice, I can mark the "my hd makes a horrid noise on shutdown" fixed in gutsy
[05:59] <Keybuk> it makes a nice "drive head thunking against the side of the can" noise? :p
[06:00] <BenC> yeah, some reporters even claim it flicks their laptops off the table ;)
[06:06] <Keybuk> I suspect they may be exaggerating a little
[06:12] <Keybuk> for my next mission, I will attempt to find out whether sync() is needed or not <g>
[06:20] <heno> random question: How many modules do we ship and how many of those are not in Linus' tree?
[06:20] <mjg59> Many, lots
[06:20] <heno> 10, 50, 100?
[06:20] <BenC> heno: for x86, stock kernel is about 1900 modules
[06:20] <mjg59> heno: find /lib/modules/`uname -r`/kernel | wc
[06:20] <mjg59> will give you the total number
[06:20] <mjg59> find /lib/modules/`uname-r`/kernel/ubuntu | wc
[06:20] <heno> ok, thanks
[06:20] <BenC> heno: we provide about 20
[06:21] <mjg59> will give you the ubuntu specific count
[06:21] <BenC> -type f might be a good idea there
[06:21] <BenC> lots of directories :)
[06:21] <mjg59> Oh, yeah
[06:21] <smurf> or even "-name \*.ko"
[06:21] <mjg59> BenC: I still make it 80 or so that we provide
[06:21] <heno> (I'm having a discussion about the removal of speakup on a list)
[06:21] <mjg59> Though several of those are conceptually linked
[06:22] <mjg59> Oh, not as many in gutsy
[06:22] <BenC> speakup is a good chunk there
[06:22] <mjg59> (so far)
[06:22] <heno> any idea how many of those are  from far outside the most common trees?
[06:23] <heno> (Linus and 2-3 others)
[06:24] <BenC> heno: a good chunk for modules we provided in feisty wont show up in gutsy because they are either obsolete, or crap
[06:24] <BenC> a lot of the wireless modules we provided in feisty we're to gain mac80211 features
[06:25] <heno> right, so it's a common life cycle for good features to actually go into mainline eventually
[06:25] <BenC> oh, definitely
[06:25] <BenC> there's a lot of overhead in maintaining those out-of-tree
[06:25] <heno> Are they often pushed in by us, or more often by other kernel folks?
[06:26] <mjg59> Other people, usually
[06:26] <mjg59> And there's some stuff we ship that's never going mainline in its current form
[06:26] <BenC> very rarely by us, where us is Ubuntu
[06:26] <mjg59> Like that gspca or whatever webcam monstrosity
[06:26] <BenC> right, and ndiswrapper
[06:26] <heno> right, I see the pattern, thanks
[06:29] <isidoro> hi
[06:30] <isidoro> sorry guys... help I can't mount my usb NTFS disk. I installed ntfs-config but a gnome pop up says mount_point cannot contain the following characters, newline G_DIR_SEPARATOR (usually /)
[06:31] <BenC> isidoro: sounds like your NTFS partitions has '/' in it's label name
[06:31] <BenC> relabel it
[06:39] <Keybuk> I can't see any explicit call for that in the kernel code yet
[06:40] <isidor1> BenC: can I force in some way the mount via shell??
[06:40] <BenC> isidor1: sure, use the mount command :)
[06:41] <isidor1> BenC: can you post it form me?
[06:41] <BenC> mount /dev/XXX /mnt
[06:41] <BenC> XXX all depends on what device it is
[06:42] <isidor1> sudo mount /dev/sdb1 /home/usbdisk
[06:42] <isidor1> says it not exsist
[06:44] <isidor1> impossibile trovare /dev/sdc in /etc/fstab o /etc/mtab
[06:45] <isidor1> impossibile find
[06:45] <isidor1> dmesg says sd 3:0:0:0: Attached scsi generic sg4 type 0
[06:46] <Keybuk> ...bad things; important lesson learned
[06:46] <isidor1> ?
[06:46] <isidor1> :-(
[06:47] <isidor1> what can I do???
[06:47] <mjg59> isidor1: #ubuntu is a much better place to ask this
[06:47] <mjg59> This isn't a support channel
[07:04] <isidoro> guys fixed!
[07:05] <isidoro> google is really a great friend
[08:44] <zul> BenC: I got a vanilla 2.6.21 booting with xen-3.1 ill start merging in 2.6.22-rc1 tonight
[08:45] <BenC> ok
[08:47] <BenC> I mean linux-meta
[09:32] <Spec> What's the ETA for fixing a bug like this: BUG #90902
[09:33] <Spec> oh, ubugtu isn't here, well, that bug is just a wrong version of firmware bug and it's basically fixed, is there anything i can do to speed along the fix?
[11:07] <defendguin> BenC, you got a moment?
[11:07] <BenC> defendguin: sure
[11:08] <defendguin> could you look at this bug someone submitted https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-source-2.6.20/+bug/114312
[11:09] <defendguin> I have this laptop and obviously i'm concerned but i have been using feisty since herd 3 and i have not noticed any fan or overheating issues
[11:11] <BenC> the bug report needs dmesg, and output from cat /proc/acpi/thermal_zone/*/temperature
[11:11] <BenC> until then it's just hand waving
[11:11] <defendguin> right
[11:12] <defendguin> would you like me to note that in the ticket?
[11:12] <BenC> yes, please
[11:15] <defendguin> Thanks Ben
[11:16] <BenC> np
[11:16] <defendguin> this guy also reported his thinkpad was over heating
[11:16] <defendguin> maybe he just needs to turn on the AC
[11:19] <BenC> or find a better place than his stove to work from
[11:20] <defendguin> oh nevermind i guess he just posted to the end of a different ticket the same issue


[13:11] <studio-user667> I'm having trouble running Jack/Ardour in a virtual machine running Ubuntu Studio 16.04.  Is it possible at all?
[17:41] <jack> hello everyone


[04:26] <gdeeble> Any in where familiar with the Virtualbox Web Service?
[04:26] <gdeeble> Anyone*
[06:05] <ubuntu608> hey guys.. i'm trying pxe install of ubuntu and i was using IIS webserver as a media server. the installation fails while loading pkgsel and tasksel . but when i use apache webserver the installation goes just fine.. any ideas on how to approach it in IIS web server..??
[06:18] <ubuntu608> anyone..??
[07:04] <lordievader> Good morning
[07:55] <jamespage> coreycb, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/python-keystoneclient/1:1.7.1-1ubuntu1/+build/8083359
[07:55] <jamespage> bandit dep it not required for unit test execution
[09:23] <ubuntu608> hey guys.. i'm trying pxe install of ubuntu and i was using IIS webserver as a media server. the installation fails while loading pkgsel and tasksel . but when i use apache webserver the installation goes just fine.. any ideas on how to approach it in IIS web server..??
[11:58] <coreycb> jamespage, ok I can drop bandit from keystoneclient.  python-bandit is in main though fwiw.
[12:01] <jamespage> coreycb, its surplus to requirements I think
[15:23] <teward> rbasak: ping
[15:28] <rbasak> teward: o/
[15:29] <teward> rbasak: PM
[15:29] <teward> ?
[15:29] <rbasak> teward: don't see one?
[15:30] <teward> coming shortly
[15:30] <teward> (I always ask for permission first :P)
[17:15] <xubuntu36w> Hi, I am new to this and would like to know if I can safely experiment in virtual machine (not setup by me) with virtual installation of untangle; without messing already configured installation. Thanks
[17:16] <RoyK> xubuntu36w: apt-get install kvm libvirt-bin virt-manager
[17:16] <RoyK> xubuntu36w: and run virt-manager
[17:18] <xubuntu36w> RoyK: Everything is setup, Workstation boots and all I have to do is create another virtual machine where I would experiment with untangle. I dont want to mess up already configure machine
[17:18] <xubuntu36w> vmware
[17:18] <xubuntu36w> sorry
[17:19] <RoyK> xubuntu36w: shouldn't be a problem - a new VM won't interfere with another
[17:19] <RoyK> xubuntu36w: unless you do something exceedingly stupid ;)
[17:21] <xubuntu36w> RoyK: Like what :). I dont know much and have to learn this way. Basically if I dont mess with settings of vmware workstation and just perform configuration inside untangle on separte vm I should be fine?
[17:21] <RoyK> well, the easy parts is don't use the same IP address for the VMs
[17:22] <RoyK> also, it's theoretically possible to setup shared storage for them - don't even think of doing that - create a new vmfs volume for the new one and it'll be isolated
[17:22] <RoyK> but normally, you'll have to work hard to break things like that
[17:23] <RoyK> I manage some 250 VMs in a vSphere environment and I've never seen anything break like that
[17:23] <xubuntu36w> RoyK: Storage is not a problem, plenty of space. Ill try not to mess with settings. Is there any other newbie mistake I should be aware of before diving into this?
[17:24] <RoyK> xubuntu36w: usually something like a pint of beer in the computer will make the day ;)
[17:25] <RoyK> but as I said, just use standard settings, create a new VM, blabla, make sure IP address is unique, and there should not be a problem
[17:25] <xubuntu36w> LOL. Thanks for quick help RoyK. Because of You Ill make account and next time will speak like two people should. Thanks again and have a nice day.
[17:25] <RoyK> :)
[17:25] <RoyK> xubuntu36w: there's a #vmware channel too
[17:26] <xubuntu36w> lol. didnt know that. Is there a list of channels somewhere?
[17:26] <RoyK> yeah, type /list, but it's *long*
[17:26] <Pici> !alis
[17:27] <RoyK> probably better than /list :P
[17:27] <Pici> There are 50K channels on freenode, using /list is probably not what you want.
[17:28] <xubuntu36w> thanks people. im going to start messing with untangle right away. itching :). {copy/paste}
[17:35] <impermanence> Is failover possible using Jasig CAS?  In other words, is there some setup I can use with my two production servers so that if one goes down authentication continues?
[17:43] <sarnold> impermanence: looks like it: http://jasig.github.io/cas/4.1.x/planning/High-Availability-Guide.html
[17:43] <impermanence> @sarnold mmkay.  I will look at this.
[17:44] <impermanence> @sarnold Is my need even coming across?  It's a tad hard to word.
[17:44] <impermanence> @sarnold I simply need failover authentication across two servers.
[17:44] <sarnold> impermanence: I think so, people expect high-availability in their services these days
[17:45] <impermanence> @sarnold right now, as they have it set, if one goes down, users get booted, as opposed to the system failing over via the load balancer to the other…which is what  I need to implement.
[17:45] <sarnold> impermanence: eww.
[17:45] <sarnold> impermanence: that's _really_ gross :)
[17:46] <impermanence> @sarnold: setup = ubuntu 12.04 + jsp's inside tomcat which is also functioning as the web server + jasig CAS
[19:23] <coreycb> beisner, can you promote trusty-kilo-proposed to trusty-kilo-staging
[19:23] <coreycb> ?
[19:23] <fuzzywuzzzy> I have setup Ubuntu server with Apache 2 and set a non root user and added them to www-data group and set the permissions to 775 on /var/www  Is this a secure setup?
[19:23] <fuzzywuzzzy> Or should it be 755 on /var/www
[19:24] <coreycb> beisner, I mean promote to trusty-kilo-proposed
[19:24] <coreycb> gah, trusty-kilo-updates
[19:26] <sarnold> fuzzywuzzzy: 775 is fine, you may wish to also set the setgid bit on the directory to cause new files to get group ownership set automatically
[19:26] <fuzzywuzzzy> How do I setgid?
[19:27] <fuzzywuzzzy> Does that mean it will automaticlly be www-data when I upload stuff?
[19:27] <sarnold> fuzzywuzzzy: iirc chmod 02775 -- check it with ls -l output to make sure the _group_ 'x' is turned into an 's'...
[19:27] <sarnold> fuzzywuzzzy: yes
[19:28] <sarnold> fuzzywuzzzy: I've got to run, I'm having trouble finding the best docs on that feature..
[19:28] <fuzzywuzzzy> I thought it was only 3 UGO
[19:28] <sarnold> fuzzywuzzzy: setuid/setgid/sticky bit are set with the rarely-used fourth octet
[19:29] <sarnold> fuzzywuzzzy: sticky is 1, and I can't recall if setuid is 2 or 4, and setgid 2 or 4. stupid memory.
[19:29] <fuzzywuzzzy> k thanks!
[19:32] <sarnold> fuzzywuzzzy: the feature is called something like "bsd groups" behaviour.. it's pretty handy when you need it. hope that helps :)
[19:32] <fuzzywuzzzy> so I can add the user I created to www-data and set perms to 775 and then do setgid
[20:05] <beisner> o/ hi coreycb
[20:05] <beisner> coreycb, like so?:  http://paste.ubuntu.com/12691765/
[20:05] <beisner> ;-)
[20:06] <coreycb> beisner, maybe just keystoneclient and neutronclient for now
[20:10] <beisner> coreycb, ok, pushing python-keystoneclient 1.2.0-0ubuntu1.2~cloud0 + python-neutronclient 2.3.11-0ubuntu1.2~cloud0 from proposed to updates in kilo uca
[20:10] <coreycb> beisner, thanks
[20:10] <beisner> coreycb, yw


[10:46] <meena> cjp256: I'm working on fixing get_interfaces() and get_interfaces_by_mac() for FreeBSD, and if I understand you correctly, we don't need the blacklist drivers hacks for BSD
[11:12] <meena> currently using defaultdict from collections, like holmanb recommended. Not sure it's the way to go…
[13:30] <holmanb> meena: I'm always looking for improvements :)
[13:30] <holmanb> Have something else in mind?
[13:31]  * holmanb tries to remember the context of what he suggested
[13:37] <cjp256> meena: correct, we wouldn't need blacklist_drivers blasted everywhere, but would we need get_interfaces() to provide driver name, and I'd suggest deprecating/removing _by_mac() variants where possible to avoid duplicate mac problems in the issue
[13:38] <cjp256> future*
[13:38] <meena> holmanb, cjp256 https://github.com/canonical/cloud-init/compare/main...igalic:cloud-init:bsd/fix_duplicate_macs?expand=1
[13:45] <meena> if MAC addresses aren't unique, are names?
[13:46] <holmanb> I remember a conversation related to this topic. Still not remembering the specifics related to this, however
[13:46] <holmanb> Shower/food now, will reload memories from irc after and get back to you
[13:48] <klnikita> hello there, I'm a network guys from scaleway. caribou told me that they were some questions regarding our network setup, the /32 with the on link gw. If the topic is still open and you have some questions feel free to ask :)
[13:56] <meena> klnikita: We, or rather, holmanb, have now discovered other cloud providers who have the same sort of setup
[14:01] <klnikita> yeah, having the /32 used as the primary IP of a VM may seems unusual but it facilitate many things regarding VM live migration, network underlay setup and some other subtilities
[14:02] <cjp256> holmanb: fwiu blacklist_drivers is only used for Azure to prevent cloudinit from trying to configure the mlx[45]  interfaces.   This list is set by the Azure datasource and it later gets reset when the distro object is cleared, so it's not working everywhere as intended.  (see PR #1853 workaround).  And the assumption that all interfaces have unique macs is not 100% correct which is leading to bugs in _by_mac() usage.  FreeBSD does not
[14:02] <cjp256> currently work at all with the mlx/mce interfaces because there is no queried driver name to account for and alphabetically the mce0 interface is taking precedence over hn0 when it builds the dictionary by mac.  We need a cross-platform way of get the interface list with driver name (see PR #1672).
[14:06] <meena> cjp256: i'm really confused by the fact that the current implementation of get_interfaces() doesn't return anything… here's my development version: https://gist.github.com/1beba16360db0d9eb6e60aa29739adfe
[14:09] <meena> cjp256: btw, as you can see, on BSD, the output is *not* alphabetic… the order is already as indexed by the kernel
[14:10] <cjp256> meena: i think net.get_interfaces() is very Linux-specific and unused in the bsd paths?
[14:11] <meena> cjp256: net.get_interfaces() dispatches to other functions. The plan (https://github.com/canonical/cloud-init/blob/main/WIP-ONGOING-REFACTORIZATION.rst ) is to move those functions from net into distro.
[14:12] <cjp256> meena: can you plumb in the text from https://github.com/canonical/cloud-init/pull/1672#discussion_r1047795909 and see what would happen?
[14:12] -ubottu:#cloud-init- Pull 1672 in canonical/cloud-init "sources/azure: fix device driver matching for net config" [Closed]
[14:15] <meena> cjp256: https://gist.github.com/4e3c2d8fbb1a6aac7e16f1caf99b605e
[14:17] <cjp256> awesome, thanks :D
[14:18] <meena> I wonder what the output of __repr__() on Ifstate could look like to make it useful…
[14:18] <cjp256> so if we're trying to apply the equivalent of blacklist_drivers on top of this, is there a way to query for the driver name of an interface? or would we end up relying on the device naming scheme? that is mlx* vs. mce*?
[14:19] <meena> cjp256: netbsd and openbsd: Yes. FreeBSD… ooooooooof: https://github.com/canonical/cloud-init/compare/main...igalic:cloud-init:bsd/device_drivers
[14:20] <meena> FreeBSD allows renaming nics but gives us no easy way to get back at the original name…
[14:22] <cjp256> so in my example above, that would return "mce" as the driver name?
[14:23] <meena> cjp256: yes
[14:23] <meena> i probably could also get a table to normalize the names
[14:24] <meena> every driver in BSD is documented
[14:25] <meena> https://man.freebsd.org/mce(4) is mlx5en
[14:31] <cjp256> I think that'd be fine if the mapping is well understood.  I don't see the name for mlx4 in the docs so I'm gonna spin up a VM and see what it is out of curiosity
[14:32] <meena> confusingly,  https://man.freebsd.org/mlx(4) is something different. Mylex DAC-family RAID driver
[14:34] <cjp256> https://man.bsd.lv/FreeBSD-13.0/man4/mlx4en.4 :D
[14:36] <meena> cjp256: that's so much nicer rendered… when will FreeBSD adopt that??
[14:36] <cjp256> https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/n8R734Uq/
[14:36] <meena> when will someone at FreeBSD have some time to migrate to that thing
[14:36] <meena> mandoc
[14:37] <cjp256> looks like it came up as mlxen*
[14:38] <meena> cjp256: the mce(4) man page tells you exactly what the nic will come up with as
[14:39] <cjp256> yeah that was nice
[15:06] <minimal> klnikita: I guess we were surprised by the /32 PtP use of the interface. Your metadata server is providing a version1 network-config right? I was wondering how it flags the interface as PtP using that
[16:03] <caribou> minimal: that's my upcoming tasks : make sure that the mods work for all rendering otherwise I'll need another solution
[16:06] <minimal> I've noticed a couple of other providers using /32 addresses in some situation, however for example OVH Bare Metal Cloud are using Openstack ConfigDrive to provide the network config (which is not v1 or v2 format, it's JSON), and Hetzner I'm not sure if they use cloud-init at all for the situations where they provide static /32 (i.e. maybe its only for bare metal, not sure)
[16:33] <meena> minimal: hetzner solves this by using DHCP… or at least falling back to DHCP
[16:35] <meena> it was only when I decided i need 1 less daemon running, that i was trying to figure out how to get that peer-to-peer config configured on FreeBSD… like, they don't even document it for FreeBSD: https://docs.hetzner.com/cloud/servers/static-configuration — i had to figure it out on my own:
[16:35] <meena> https://gist.github.com/igalic/642efb4e0f4da255382bc299ec65ce83
[16:53] <minimal> meena: with DHCP is the default route handled ok?
[17:23] <meena> minimal: yupp
[17:26] <meena> minimal: i don't know if Hetzner uses cloud-init for hardware
[17:54] <klnikita> the correct term for this kind of connectivity is "directly connected gateway", pointopoint is something different
[17:57] <minimal> ok, I meant that its effectively using ethernet as a non-broadcast network, which is typically what "pointopoint" signifies, sort of like an unnumbered PPP link
[17:57] <meena> klnikita: you tell that the Debian folks. i think they're the ones who started it
[17:59] <klnikita> yep sorry, I didnt saw that my irc was not on the last message actually, I was thinking that last chan msg was still about adding it in ifupdown :)
[17:59] <meena> cjp256: passing this on: 	<CrtxReavr> I don't have either of those devices.  Maybe you could share the output of 'grep mlx /var/run/dmesg.boot'
[18:04] <klnikita> if I'm not mistaken it should work pretty out of the box with ifupdown https://salsa.debian.org/debian/ifupdown/-/blob/master/inet.defn#L43 but I have not tested it
[18:05] <klnikita> and, it wont work on ifupdown + kfreebsd
[18:07] <minimal> and probably not with ifupdown-ng on Alpine
[18:18] <klnikita> yep it won't work, https://github.com/ifupdown-ng/ifupdown-ng/blob/main/executor-scripts/linux/static#L36 is missing the "onlink" option at the end
[18:19] <minimal> I think the situation is (a) where addresses and routes are allocated via DHCP then its down to the particular DHCP client as to what happens, or (b) where the provider's metadata server or ConfigDrive/NoCloud files provide network config via non-DHCP then (b1) how does the provided v1/v2 network config indicate a "onlink" route to cloud-init, and (b2) what then does cloud-init put into each of sysconfig/eni/etc files to signify such an "onlink" route
[18:19] <minimal> such that the OS'es handler for their own distro-specific config file know to deal appropriately with it
[18:20] <minimal> klnikita: yupe, had just checked that myself - I think adding "onlink" to the "ip route add default" statement would be "bad" as "onlink" should only be used when specified/required
[18:22] <klnikita> yep agreed, without the onlink you got an "Error: Nexthop has invalid gateway." error which protect about most misconfiguration
[18:23] <klnikita> I guess the onlink just disable the check
[21:31] <esv> hello folks, scripts located in the per-instance section or subdirectories should be executed only once upon machine creation, right?
[21:43] <ananke> esv: or when said OS is booted on another instance (which varies with actual implementation). but yes
[22:42] <holmanb> meena: forgot to circle back to you this morning, sorry about that
[22:43] <holmanb> meena: I think it was aciba who was talking to you about using defaultdict (explains my brain-gap)
[22:43] <meena> holmanb: ah,
[22:43] <holmanb> meena: https://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2022/11/16/%23cloud-init.txt
[22:43] <meena> i'll test with defaultdict and see where it goes
[22:43] <holmanb> sounds good
[22:46] <meena> i need to figure out how to access stuff in it first.
[22:47] <meena> actually, maybe a list of tuples might be better, tho not much easier for easy access either…
[22:47] <meena> names are unique, always, right?
[22:48] <holmanb> "always" begets more research before giving a confident answer
[22:49] <holmanb> I'll say: I've seen multiple instances of systems with duplicate macs, multiple different setups and scenarios. I don't _think_ I've ever seen a system with duplicate interface names.
[22:50]  * holmanb starts wondering about linux namespaces now
[22:53] <holmanb> my gut feeling is that multiple interfaces could be named the same (after an interface rename) in different network namespaces, but I'd have to dig a bit to confirm that and I haven't touched linux namespaces in a couple of years
[22:53] <holmanb> klnikita: hello and welcome :)
[22:57] <holmanb> klnikita: thanks for dropping by, catching up on conversation now - I'll possibly have a question or three for you once I do
[23:23] <cjp256> meena: not sure whatcha looking for, but here a dmesg for both mlx4 and mlx5
[23:23] <cjp256> https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/MXHlSwZg/
[23:24] <holmanb> cjp256: ack, thanks for the refresh / context - will you reopen 1672 in a new PR? It doesn't look like we have the power to do that for whatever reason.
[23:26] <cjp256> holmanb: np, I'll reopen it, thanks!
[23:28] <cjp256> https://github.com/canonical/cloud-init/pull/1914
[23:28] -ubottu:#cloud-init- Pull 1914 in canonical/cloud-init "sources/azure: fix device driver matching for net config" [Open]
[23:28] <holmanb> cjp256: Nice, thanks!
[23:28] <holmanb> caribou: "make sure that the mods work for all rendering" -> By this do you mean that you're interested in contributing to cloud-init to help with support on this?
[23:34] <holmanb> rather - regardless of whether that's what you meant, is that something you're interested in doing?


[03:13] <epikvision> good morning from los angeles!
[03:13] <chilicuil> good morning epikvision o/
[03:14] <epikvision> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay
[03:15] <epikvision> are bug days still in session every Thursdays?
[03:17] <chilicuil> no epikvision =(, I've not hear anything for a while
[13:54] <alci> I think this bug can be marked as Triaged and deserves some love (makes impossible to launch gnome-system-log from Unity Dash)
[13:54] <alci> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/957641
[13:54] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 957641 in unity (Ubuntu) "unity does not display authentication window for pkexec, making gnome-system-log unasable from the Dash" [Low,Confirmed]
[19:55] <smerch> hello. can some one help me with bug report?
[22:46] <dlbike76> Hi any experied triagers/bugcontrol members on?
[22:47] <dlbike76> I submitted bug #1073059 and linked to the upstream bugtracker.
[22:47] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1073059 in lxtask (Ubuntu) "Can not sort tasks by User Name (UNAME)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1073059
[22:48] <dlbike76> I'm wondering if the bug will be automatically processed once the patch I submitted upstream is processed.
[22:49] <dlbike76> I just linked the upstream tracker this morning.  The patch was accepted upstream, but the status hasn't changed in launchpad yet.


[09:24] <pedro_> bladernr_, remember, don't tell our bugsquad secret to hggdh
[09:25] <hggdh> pfui
[09:28] <ameetp> pedro_, I'm not sharing the bugsquad secret with hggdh
[09:29] <pedro_> hggdh, ^
[09:29] <hggdh> grrrrr
[09:51] <thekorn> bugsquad secret ?!
[09:52] <nigelb> thekorn: just act like you know it and play along :p
[09:52] <pedro_> shhhhh don't tell him!!!
[09:53] <thekorn> it was just a rethoric question ;)
[09:53] <pedro_> i already said two clues to him
[09:53] <pedro_> 1- it has a tail 2- is green
[09:57] <nigelb> hggdh: another clue - blue eyes!
[09:57] <pedro_> hggdh, ^
[10:02] <pedro_> hello devildante
[10:02] <devildante> pedro_: hi :)
[10:14] <hggdh> LGMs?
[10:16] <devildante> hggdh: what's LGMs?
[10:16] <hggdh> devildante: Little Green Men
[10:17] <hggdh> a.k.a. 'martians'
[10:17] <pedro_> nigelb, Little Green Men, what do you think?
[10:17] <nigelb> hggdh: naaah
[10:17] <pedro_> true or false?
[10:17] <pedro_> !
[10:17] <nigelb> wrong speciies
[10:18] <devildante> did I miss something?
[10:19] <pedro_> hggdh, well.. is not a LGM
[10:19] <pedro_> tomorrow maybe we can give you another clue
[10:19] <hggdh> rrroight
[10:20] <devildante> is LGM = Libre Graphics Meeting?
[11:40] <erkan^> do someone know: qtm: symbol lookup error: qtm: undefined symbol: _ZN9QHashData13detach_helperEPFvPNS_4NodeEPvEPFvS1_Ei
[11:40] <erkan^>
[11:47] <yofel> erkan^: which release?
[11:56] <yofel> ok, confirmed on maverick for now
[11:57] <erkan^> QTM, yofel
[11:57] <yofel> I meant ubuntu release
[11:57] <erkan^> http://qtm.blogistan.co.uk/
[11:58] <yofel> but it seems like it's build against the wrong qt version
[11:58] <erkan^> yes i have installed QTM in Ubuntu (version 1.1.1 ) .. later can not start with QTM
[11:58] <yofel> bug 573785
[11:58] <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 573785 in qtm (Ubuntu) "QTM crashes when a window is launched (affects: 2) (heat: 12)" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/573785
[11:59] <erkan^> what can I do now, yofel
[12:00] <erkan^> ?
[12:00] <erkan^> I don't know good very about bugs
[12:00] <yofel> well, I'll talk to someone who can rebulid it, but it will take a while, do you want to rebuild it yourself? I can tell you how to do it
[12:01] <erkan^> ok
[12:04] <erkan^> brb
[12:05] <yofel> erkan^: ping me when you're back
[12:07] <yofel> erkan^: easier way, I uploaded the package to a ppa of mine, please install the .deb for your architecture once it's build https://edge.launchpad.net/~yofel/+archive/off-ppa/+sourcepub/1246752/+listing-archive-extra
[12:08] <yofel> erkan^: you are using ubuntu lucid right?
[12:10] <erkan^> yes
[12:10] <erkan^> ubuntu 10.04
[12:11] <erkan^> deb https://edge.launchpad.net/~yofel/+archive/off-ppa/+sourcepub/1246752/+listing-archive-extra ?
[12:12] <erkan^> deb https://edge.launchpad.net/~yofel/+archive/off-ppa/+sourcepub/1246752/+listing-archive-extra lucid ?
[12:12] <yofel> no
[12:12] <yofel> wait
[12:12] <yofel> erkan^: here's the ppa page
[12:12] <yofel> https://edge.launchpad.net/~yofel/+archive/off-ppa
[12:13] <yofel> erkan^: notice that it'll take 2-3 hours until qtm is built
[12:13] <erkan^> ok
[12:13] <erkan^> how add I ppa ?
[12:13] <erkan^> terminal venster?
[12:15] <erkan^> deb https://edge.launchpad.net/~yofel/+archive/off-ppa lucid
[12:15] <yofel> erkan^: just use 'sudo add-apt-repository ppa:yofel/off-ppa'
[12:18] <erkan^> thank you
[12:18] <erkan^> i wait
[12:18] <erkan^> 2-3 untill qtm is built
[12:18] <erkan^> i go now
[12:21] <vish> hmm , the reportbug UI fails :s
[12:21] <vish> fails with floating point exception..
[13:26] <stanley_robertso> hi all
[13:26] <stanley_robertso> hi vish
[13:42] <erkan^> i see
[13:46] <erkan^> yofel, thank you very much :)
[13:47] <erkan^> which type is hosted blog? I have www.blogger.com , yofel
[14:25] <stanley_robertso> hi all.. am back
[14:27] <erkan^> wb (:
[14:28] <stanley_robertso> erkan^, ty
[14:49] <erkan^> :(
[14:54] <erkan^> http://lh6.ggpht.com/_-g7SHML2oAI/TEme_uL--wI/AAAAAAAAAkE/0nAXP3iYHic/s640/account%20for%20qtm.png
[16:43] <charlie-tca> I need a little help with the correct package for a bug 585524
[16:43] <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 585524 in thunar (Ubuntu) "Cant play Audio CD's in Lucid (affects: 1) (heat: 66)" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/585524
[16:44] <charlie-tca> The audio cd's play in exaile, but not in any other application. I don't think thunar is the correct package if the audio cd won't play in brasero, rhythm box etc
[16:44] <charlie-tca> What should the package be?
[16:45] <micahg> charlie-tca: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingSoundProblems ?
[16:45] <micahg> charlie-tca: does exaile use  pulseaudio?
[16:47] <charlie-tca> pulseaudio is installed by default now, but I don't know how it all works. I don't know if exaile uses it.
[16:49] <charlie-tca> Yeah, I can try for Debugging Sound Problems. Thanks for the suggestion
[20:04] <pascal80> Is it possible to close a bug in debian so that it appears as 'Invalid' in a launchpad bug watch?
[20:05] <pascal80> I'm not so familiar with debian bug system.
[20:08] <pascal80> I have closed the bug in debian but upstream bug watch of ubuntu bug #486641 marks this as 'Fix Released'
[20:08] <ubot2`> Ubuntu bug 486641 in debian (and 1 other project) "Typo in package description: "This packages Contains" (affects: 1) (heat: 23)" [Unknown,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/486641
[20:16] <charlie-tca> We can put a comment in the launchpad bug that the debian bug was closed/invalid.
[20:16] <devildante> charlie-tca: But shouldn't the bug watcher update the status all by itself?
[20:17] <figure002> hello. i'd like a bug set to 'wishlist'. but it's not a ubuntu bug, but a bug for a gnome application. should i post the bug number here, or in the channel for that particular application?
[20:18] <yofel> devildante: it did, but misunderstood the debian bug
[20:18] <charlie-tca> debian statuses are not the same. Launchpad translate the status when it sees it
[20:18] <maco> figure002: for bugs on bugs.gnome.org you need to ask gnome people
[20:18] <devildante> charlie-tca: yofel: thx a lot
[20:19] <figure002> maco: this particular bug is maintained by launchpad.
[20:19] <vish> figure002: what is the bug number?
[20:19] <maco> figure002: oh. then id suggest forwarding it to bugs.gnome.org if you ever want it to be looked at
[20:21] <vish> maco: hmm , might be a figure002 meant a project maintained in lp...
[20:21] <maco> vish: but said a gnome bug...
[20:21] <pascal80> charlie-tca: What do I need to do in the debian bug report to get 'Invalid' in launchpad?
[20:21] <vish> "...but a bug for a gnome application."
[20:21] <vish> meh..
[20:21] <figure002> vish: yes, that's what I meant. this is the bug: Bug #609253
[20:21] <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 609253 in awn-extras "Can't set custom icon for Related applet (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/609253
[20:22] <maco> pascal80: i dont think you can. debian doesnt differentiate between reasons-for-being-closed-now, as far as i know
[20:22] <devildante> figure002: awn has nothing to do with gnome
[20:22] <vish> figure002: usually the respective teams take care of that , we dont need to worry about that :)
[20:23] <figure002> devildante: hmm, my bad then
[20:23] <figure002> vish: thanks :)
[20:23] <vish> np..
[20:23] <yofel> pascal80: you could remove the bugwatch from the debian task and set it invalid by hand
[20:29] <pascal80> yofel: done that, thanks for the suggestion!
[20:36] <vish> hrmm , lubuntu is more than xubuntu ??? http://distrowatch.com/
[20:36] <vish> and more kubuntu too!
[20:37] <vish> more than K..
[20:37] <micahg> vish: what do you mean mroe?
[20:37] <vish> page hits..
[20:37] <devildante> file a bug on lp :P
[20:38] <vish> haha!
[20:39] <yofel> new things are always more interesting :P
[20:39] <devildante> vish: so this is an expected behaviour?
[20:39] <devildante> we should mark the bug as Invalid :P
[20:40] <devildante> oh I meant yofel
[20:40] <devildante> my bad :(
[20:40] <yofel> :P
[20:40] <charlie-tca> didn't lubuntu just come out with kde version?
[20:40] <vish> ;p
[20:40] <vish> lubuntu kde ?? o.0
[20:41] <charlie-tca> either just came out is coming out very soon, I think
[20:41] <yofel> wth is that supposed to be o.O
[20:41] <vish> wasnt the point of lubuntu being that it was lxde..
[20:41] <charlie-tca> oh, maybe that was mint then
[20:41] <devildante> vish: it runs kde hyper-super-lite
[20:41] <devildante> :P
[20:42] <vish> yeah , heard something bout it on mint
[20:42] <vish> devildante: kde , can never be super lite!
[20:42]  * vish hides
[20:42]  * devildante searches for vish
[20:43] <yofel> vish: you don't need to hide, KDE *is* a resource hole
[20:44] <charlie-tca> Maybe the late review on lubuntu (7/22) has something to do with the page hits
[20:44] <vish> yofel: :)
[20:45] <vish> hmm , actually there probably is no gnome folk around , everyone online now is either kubuntu or xubuntu[which includes micahg ;p]
[20:46] <devildante> vish: I'm on gnome :P
[20:46] <vish> s/is/are
[20:46] <micahg> xubuntu ftw!
[20:46] <vish> devildante: ah , neat!
[20:49] <charlie-tca> Someone still uses gnome?? ;)
[20:50] <devildante> charlie-tca: KISS ftw
[20:50] <vish> charlie-tca: does xubuntu get the indicator stuff?
[20:50] <devildante> vish: yes
[20:51] <vish> :(
[20:51] <vish> if it did not , would have been a nice place ;)
[20:52] <devildante> vish: indicators are AWESOME
[20:52] <devildante> why don't you like the AWESOME indicators?
[20:52] <vish> meh!
[20:53] <yofel> devildante: they're not, I want to be able to choose what the panel contains, not click 'remove from panel' and loose half of the panel contents
[20:54] <devildante> yofel: you're right, I guess
[20:54] <devildante> would be neat if someone hacked this in a bzr branch
[20:54] <charlie-tca> vish, devildante : we do not have the indicators as a group, in xubuntu
[20:55] <vish> \o/
[20:55] <charlie-tca> You can add/remove any item, one at a time
[20:55]  * yofel will stick to kubuntu
[20:55] <charlie-tca> We use notifyd, but not the indicator stuff
[20:55]  * devildante will not go to xubuntu, even if he dies
[20:55] <vish> hehe , i tried kubuntu once then my head started spinning with all the options :D
[20:56] <devildante> vish: kubuntu is actually pretty cool
[20:56] <charlie-tca> devildante: xubuntu is not for everyone :)
[20:56] <devildante> vish: the only drawback is that Ubuntu features don't get on time in kubuntu
[20:56] <vish> devildante: yeah ,it is.. but it had too many options , it was hard for me to choose ;)
[20:57] <yofel> haha
[21:02] <sweltman_> Greetings!
[21:02] <sweltman_> I have some trouble using the updater for a system upgrade.  Is this the right place?
[21:06] <vish> !support | sweltman_
[21:06] <ubot2`> sweltman_: The official ubuntu support channel is #ubuntu. Also see http://ubuntu.com/support and http://ubuntuforums.org
[21:10] <sweltman_> The dialogue box said to ask here first before opening up a bug report if the upgrade didn't go well.
[21:12] <sweltman_> hey d3v...
[21:17] <d3vnu11> yo
[21:25] <erkan^> !vlc
[21:25] <ubot2`> Audio (Ogg, MP3...) players: Audacious, Banshee, Beep Media Player, Listen, Quod Libet, Rhythmbox, Exaile, XMMS2 (GTK/Gnome based) and Amarok, JuK (Qt/KDE based).  Video players: Totem, Xine, MPlayer, VLC, Kaffeine - See also !codecs
[21:29] <sweltman_> are we here?
[21:40] <devildante> hey guys, I'd like some opinion on a bug I'm going to report
[21:42] <devildante> the bug is: when the screen fades (for locking after being idle for some time), I can't interrupt the fading (moving the mouse, etc)
[21:42] <devildante> Should I report this bug againt compiz or gnome-screensaver?
[21:42] <devildante> against*
[21:47] <devildante> Is anyone here? :(
[21:49] <yofel> sure, but I'm clueless
[21:49] <devildante> If you want more informatin, just tell
[21:52] <devildante> information*
[22:02] <devildante> well, I guess I'll file this bug without a package
[22:02] <devildante> later
[22:02] <devildante> because I'm coding :p
[22:03] <yofel> devildante: rather just file it against gnome-screensaver, which is what I would tend to (but I have no idea really)
[22:03] <yofel> so we get at least some apport info
[22:04] <devildante> yofel: thank you
[22:13] <puff> I'm not sure this is a bug, but it's happened several times now, and I just rebooted and tested it.  In a nutshell, virtual consoles seem broken.  If I boot into X and login normally, then hit ctrl-alt-shift-f1, I get a text-only login console.  Sometimes it's responsive and I can login, sometimes it's not, but I can't shift back to the X console.
[22:14] <puff> Just now, upon rebooting, I was able to shift to console f1, login, then shift to console f2, but then it became non-responsive.
[22:16] <puff> This is on lucid 10.04.
[22:16] <puff> And possibly another bug:  the reason it came up, just now, is that I was watching a show on totem, last night, paused it and went to sleep, got up many hours later, eventually sat down to watch the end of the show, and Gnome was only partially responsive. The mouse pointer moved, but clicking pause/play didn't do anything, nor did trying to click on the totem menus, the totem windowframe close button, or the gnome panel.
[22:18] <devildante> puff: you should file the first bug against the kernel
[22:18] <puff> Ctrl-alt-left and ctrl-alt-right to move among the virtual desktop worked, but nothing else.  I did ctrl-alt-shift-f1, logged in and checked the load, it wasn't excessive.  Still, I thought I'd soft-kill the totem process and see if that helped.  However, when I atttempted to shift back to the X console, it stuck on the text console, and the system became non-responsive.
[22:18] <devildante> puff: Can you reproduce the totem bug?
[22:19] <puff> I can try to leave it paused again for twelve hours :-).
[22:19] <puff> I just reloaded the same file and watched the rest of it, it didn't reoccur.
[22:19] <puff> So it's probably not file-specific.
[22:20] <devildante> puff: we can't fix a bug without knowing what is *exactly* happening
[22:21] <puff> Yeah, I understand that.
[22:21] <puff> As I said, I can reproduce the virtual console problem.
[22:22] <puff> Unless the expected behavior of virtual consoles changed somewhere in the last few versions (I jumped from Edgy to Lucid, by way of a complete reinstall).
[22:22] <devildante> puff: about that bug... it could be either xorg or the kernel
[22:23] <puff> Which, the consoles?
[22:23]  * devildante wonders how people were still on Edgy...
[22:23] <puff> devildante: LTS.
[22:23] <micahg> puff: yes, the behaviour changes, #ubuntu can help you configure
[22:23] <micahg> puff: edgy wasn't an LTS
[22:23] <devildante> puff: the LTS is dapper
[22:23] <puff> micahg: The behavior _changes_ or the behavior _changed_?
[22:24] <micahg> puff: changed, I can't type :-/
[22:24] <puff> micahg: Really?  Hm, I must have been on dapper and upgraded to edgy.
[22:24] <micahg> puff: Dapper desktop has been EOL for a year already
[22:24] <puff> micahg: Is the new behavior documented somewhere?  I should test against the expected behavior, before I file a bug :-)
[22:24]  * micahg reads scrollback
[22:26] <puff> I love my hardware (thinkpad t43p, last of the ibm models) but apparently it's a pain in the rear for ubuntu.  I have to use the alternate install CD, etc.
[22:26] <micahg> puff: well, the main change was a switch to KMS for video which can break some consoles
[22:27] <micahg> puff: the X wiki has a lot of documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/X
[22:28] <puff> micahg: I meant the expected behavior.
[22:28] <micahg> puff: I'm not sure exactly what your issue is
[22:30] <puff> micahg: What I am asking is, did the control key combinations change, or is my expectation of being able to hit shift-f8 and change back to the GUI terminal change, or anything of that nature?
[22:30] <micahg> puff: well, that was broken in karmic, I think it was fixed in Lucid, but you can ask in #ubuntu to be sure
[22:31] <micahg> puff: BTW, I thought it was CTRL + ALT + Fx
[22:31] <puff> micahg: What was "that"?
[22:31] <puff> micahg: Which bit was broken, that is.
[22:31] <micahg> puff: terminals 1-6 and CTRL+ALT+DELETE wre linked
[22:31]  * micahg thinks, could be wrong
[22:31] <puff> Linked?
[22:32] <micahg> puff: as in there was a setting to enable both
[22:32] <micahg> I think I might be remembering incorrectly though...
[22:32] <puff> Ah...
[22:32] <micahg> I remember something about them being disabled by default
[22:33] <micahg> puff: you can post a request on answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu and see what people say, you can convert to a bug from there if necessary
[22:33] <puff> Okay, I'll try that.
[22:33] <puff> Wacky that they disabled them, when you need them it's too late to enable them :-)
[22:34] <micahg> puff: well, tehre's recovery mode on boot
[22:34] <puff> Yeah...
[22:36] <puff> Okay, I'll post on answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu.
[23:42] <xelister> suddenly all my national characters turned to crap, is that a known problem?
[23:43] <xelister> in mplayer, ą ę ć ż  etc are all showed as _. In other X apps (kde mostly), they are rendered with very strange fonts. This suddenly happened around 1 month ago. No change in configs