[21:07] <MadnessRed> hi all
[21:08] <MichealH> Hi
[21:08] <MadnessRed> whats happened to the website?
[21:08] <MichealH> I dont know
[21:08] <MichealH> :/
[21:08] <MichealH> Let me see?
[21:08] <MichealH> Hmm
[21:09] <MichealH> !status is [Website] Down [Launchpad] Up [Wiki] Seems Up [Bot] Up
[21:09] <TourBot> I'll remember that, MichealH
[21:10] <MadnessRed> !status
[21:10] <TourBot> status is [Website] Down [Launchpad] Up [Wiki] Seems Up [Bot] Up
[21:10] <MichealH> !status is <reply>[Website] Down [Launchpad] Up [Wiki] Seems Up [Bot] Up
[21:10] <TourBot> But status already means something else!
[21:10] <MichealH> *sigh
[21:10] <MichealH> !no status is <reply>[Website] Down [Launchpad] Up [Wiki] Seems Up [Bot] Up
[21:10] <TourBot> I'll remember that MichealH
[21:10] <MichealH> !status
[21:10] <TourBot> [Website] Down [Launchpad] Up [Wiki] Seems Up [Bot] Up
[21:11] <MadnessRed> nice
[21:13] <MadnessRed> also any news on the front page?
[21:27] <MichealH> Not yet, acctually
[21:28] <MadnessRed> kk
[21:29] <MichealH> We had a meeting one saturday and discussed
[21:29] <MichealH> Its a nice idea to look at the logs
[21:29] <MichealH> If I can find logs :s
 Minutes:        http://mootbot.libertus.co.uk/ubuntu-tour/2011/ubuntu-tour.2011-01-29-20.59.moin.txt
[21:31] <MadnessRed> your birthdays a day after mine
[21:32] <MichealH> Really?
[21:32] <MichealH> \o/
[21:35] <MadnessRed> yh, it's not really that unlikely
[21:36] <MadnessRed> jsut had a very boring lecture on it
[21:39] <MadnessRed> anyway, I gotta go, i'll leave my computer logged onto the irc so i'll get any messages when I get back, I am also working on an addon for the firefox tour that will give the user options for other tours if he has installed other browsers
 Billynkid: ubuntu-tour ... one of the executions of the education campaign could promote what they're doing at Ubuntu Tour ... so perhaps some overlap but i think we would take the role of publicizing their work to a large audience * mattgriffin checks ossg.bcs.org
[21:50] <UndiFineD> on #ubuntu-adverts
[21:51] <UndiFineD> matt works for canonical


[07:45] <dpm> morning all
[07:45] <andrejz> morning
[07:46] <dpm> hi andrejz :)
[07:47] <artnay> hey andrejz, how are you?
[07:50] <andrejz> I am good, just work here hasn't yet produced expected and wanted results. I am slowly getting accustomed to short daylight time
[07:50] <andrejz> @dpm: i sent an email about universe packages to the ML
[07:53] <artnay> andrejz: has your stay been pleasant so far?
[07:54] <andrejz> yeah, i am enjoying my stay here
[07:54] <andrejz> although i mostly go out on the weekends
[07:54] <andrejz> busy with work otherwsie
[07:55] <andrejz> now i moved to espoo to aalto university campus
[07:57] <artnay> that's a pity, those tower buildings are much better (location wise) imo
[07:58] <artnay> andrejz: maybe we could meet next weekend if you have some spare time
[07:59] <andrejz> i would be very much up for it
[09:10] <jussi> vprints: dpm can probqably answer your question, go ahead and ask :)
[09:11] <vprints> Hello :)
[09:11] <vprints> I have a question about translating Kubuntu
[09:11] <vprints> do the current translations come from LP or directly from upstream?
[09:12] <vprints> I remember that there were several rounds of talks that LP messed up the KDE translations, that it should be bypassed
[09:12] <vprints> (quite some time ago)
[09:13] <vprints> but i'm not sure if they actually departed from LP and if they did then what the current status of the matter is
[09:13] <andrejz> @vprints
[09:13] <dpm> vprints, translations come from upstream, are imported into Launchpad, where they can be completed if necessary, and then they are exported from there into language packs
[09:13] <andrejz> oh, dpm just answered it
[09:14] <vprints> aha
[09:16] <vprints> and if i now translate 11.10 then i won't be "waisting my time", these translations would also get included in 12.04 and not overwritten with (possible) blanks from upstream?
[09:18] <andrejz> they get automatically synced
[09:18] <andrejz> so no
[09:18] <andrejz> you are not wasting your time
[09:18] <andrejz> if the english string will be the same in 12.04 than in 11.10 then it will be automatically copied via translations sharing
[09:19] <vprints> cool
[09:19] <vprints> thanks
[09:19] <vprints> :)
[09:19] <andrejz> but of course if sting in 12.04 is different than in 11.10 you will need to translate it again
[09:19] <vprints> btw, are the scripts that do this public?
[09:19] <vprints> yes of course
[09:19] <andrejz> If it is similar however, your previous translation might be displayed as suggestion
[09:20] <andrejz> not sure, need to ask dpm for that
[09:23] <dpm> vprints, yes, Launchpad is open source: https://dev.launchpad.net
[09:36] <vprints> ok, thanks :)
[09:56] <vprints> at what point in the release cycle translations in LP are enabled?
[09:56] <vprints> usually
[09:56] <vprints> is it when the alpha 1 comes out or later?
[10:00] <sagaci> vprints: for precise?
[10:03] <vprints> yes
[10:04] <vprints> precise is what interests me, but mabe it is not yet exactly know
[10:04] <vprints> n
[10:04] <artnay> vprints: I believe translations will be opened a few months after UDS so basically it's alpha 1 phase
[10:05] <artnay> at least that's how it's been previously
[10:05] <andrejz> something around that time
[10:05] <andrejz> but you must be aware string can still change until string freeze
[10:05] <artnay> and even after that ;)
[10:05] <andrejz> and often there are string freeze exceptions even after that
[10:06] <vprints> yeah :D
[10:06] <andrejz> or imports are delayed for some reason, etc
[10:07] <andrejz> or progamers forget to add some strings in the po templates and add them after bug is reported and such
[10:34] <andrejz> +1 from me for google+ page TLE
[10:50] <sagaci> vprints: will you be around for 20 mins or so more?
[10:51] <vprints> yes
[10:51] <vprints> why?
[10:51] <sagaci> I can get a definitive answer for the change from last cycle if you hold a few
[10:52] <vprints> cool
[10:52] <TLE> *Uhhh ohhhhh uhhhh*
[10:53]  * TLE emulating the language pack testing ghost
[10:53] <TLE> *uhhhhh remember to test your language pack*
[10:54]  * TLE makes things start dropping of you walls and the coffee start boiling in your cup
[11:21] <sagaci> vprints, 20th-22nd july it changed, roughly
[11:46] <andrejz> dpm are you there?
[11:50] <dpm> hi andrejz, I am
[11:51] <andrejz> i was wondering what should be the next step in universe translatable in LP
[11:55] <andrejz> we now have a list of applications to start with
[11:56] <sagaci> andrejz, what's the list
[11:56] <vprints> kk, thanks :)
[11:57] <yurchor> sagaci: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Translations/Universe_Translations_in_LP
[11:57] <andrejz> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Translations/Universe_Translations_in_LP
[11:57] <andrejz> too late
[11:58] <sagaci> thanks
[11:58] <andrejz> obviously this is not the final list
[11:58]  * yurchor thinks that it is very-very bad idea to translate downstream.
[11:58] <andrejz> but a set of suggestions which we should use to test this capability and iron out the bugs in implementation
[11:59] <andrejz> i agree in general. but sometimes you have long delays with the upstream
[11:59] <andrejz> also
[12:00] <andrejz> sometimes there is no upstream for certain languages and it can be quite tedious work to translate *some* packages upstream
[12:00] <yurchor> andrejz: You will end up like this https://launchpad.net/gajim  (imho).
[12:01] <andrejz> i don't see what are you trying to say with gajim, yurchor
[12:02] <andrejz> I don't see anything special in their LP page
[12:02] <yurchor> andrejz: Two cycles ago somebody proposed the same thing: let's translate gajim with indicator patch downstream. People still translating it. ;)
[12:03] <yurchor> And Gajim still developed and translated upstream. No translation from Launchpad packaged.
[12:06] <andrejz> of course it would be great it this would be done with some cooperation from upstream
[12:06] <yurchor> So what's the problem with cooperation?
[12:06] <andrejz> but there is another side of the coin too, for example it's practically impossible to translate ccsm (compiz config settings manager)
[12:07] <andrejz> @yurchor: to export translations upstream afterwards
[12:07] <andrejz> you can only translate ccsm here - http://l10n.compiz.org/pootle/
[12:08] <yurchor> Ubuntu does not like upstream, does it? ;)
[12:08] <andrejz> it depends who you ask
[12:08] <andrejz> i like upstream
[12:08] <andrejz> but sometimes it's very difficult to work with
[12:08] <andrejz> we cooperate great with gnome
[12:08] <andrejz> we translate everything we can in gnome
[12:08] <andrejz> and not in LP
[12:09] <andrejz> anyway everything related to compiz and translations is outdated
[12:09] <yurchor> So there will be the private Ubuntu club for bad upstreams. Right? ;)
[12:09] <andrejz> and/ or not working
[12:10] <yurchor> No Debian, no OpenSUSE, no Fedora, just Ubuntu?
[12:10] <andrejz> well we would like to provide alternative workflow for some of the more visible/important packages
[12:10] <andrejz> it doesn't mean it's for ubuntu only
[12:10] <yurchor> Mint++ ?
[12:10] <andrejz> translations can be exported out and used upstream too (that's why i mentioned collaboration with upstream)
[12:11] <andrejz> what i am trying to say is that it's really difficult to translate ccsm right now
[12:11] <yurchor> So why just not making upstream to use Launchpad, instead of branching translations?
[12:11] <andrejz> if it was available in LP many more teams would attempt to translate it
[12:12] <andrejz> well that depends on them (upstream). If they don't want to use Lp you cannot/should not  force them tp
[12:12] <andrejz> to
[12:12] <yurchor> Ok, I got it. :)
[12:12] <yurchor> Thanks.
[12:13] <andrejz> as for compiz they said they were planning to move upstream translations to LP about a year ago, both myself and dpm offered assistance and so far not much has happened
[12:13] <andrejz> i know they might be very busy with other stuff / have small team
[12:13] <andrejz> but on the other hand this translations are quite visible
[12:13] <andrejz> you need ccsm if you want to configure unity
[12:14] <andrejz> many other upstreams are less friendly to translators (have a higher technical entry level)
[12:15] <andrejz> I have some negative experience with wine when i needed to create my own account and commit translations directly, because the person i was in contact with was unwilling want to do that for me
[12:16] <andrejz> many translators (non-technical like me) would have / might have given up
[12:16] <yurchor> Ok. It will be interesting experiment. Ubuntu forks upstream translations. Be ready for Fedora gambit (Transifex with no translations in repository). ;)
[12:16] <andrejz> not for many packages
[12:16] <andrejz> only a couple of most important
[12:16] <andrejz> also another thing is
[12:16] <andrejz> you cannot do any bugfixing currently
[12:16] <andrejz> until next version of upstream package comes out
[12:17] <andrejz> maybe we are a specific case (slovenian) as we virtually have no upstream translations done (besides KDE, Gnome, libreoffice)
[12:18] <andrejz> for debian i needed to wait for 9 motnhs (from february till november) till my translation got pulled in by maintainer
[12:19] <andrejz> if this was translated within launchpad it would be translated 2 releases earlier
[12:19] <andrejz> but again it needs to be done the right way, so upstream projects can also have some use of it (use this translations easily)
[12:19] <andrejz> so dpm, what should be the next step?
[12:21] <andrejz> note yurchor, i don't have anything against upstream per se
[12:21] <yurchor> Ok, upstream does not have anything against Ubuntu. ;)
[12:22] <andrejz> we collaborate (help translating, send bugfixes) with mozilla, gnome, libreoffice and KDE teams very well
[12:22] <yurchor> A-ha, I know. ;)
[12:23] <yurchor> That's why kdegraphics module is retranslated for Kubuntu on Launchpad. Because of collaboration. ;)
[12:24] <dpm> andrejz, let me reply to your e-mail on the UTC list
[12:24] <andrejz> sure dpm
[12:24] <andrejz> well i don't know how it works for your particular team
[12:25] <andrejz> i agree it requires extra effort to export to upstream or do work in upstream from the beginning, but it's worth it
[12:25] <andrejz> we have a list of KDE modules we translate in LP and they don't touch them in KDe
[12:26] <andrejz> when they are done we send them to KDE team for review and if they seem OK, they commit them
[12:26] <andrejz> @yurchor: this collaboration depends very much on the local teams (your KDE team and ubuntu team)
[12:26]  * yurchor as upstream contributor is sometimes got a little tired of this collaboration
[12:27] <andrejz> i agree. it would be the easiest if all the packages could be translated at one place. unfortunately it's not like that
[12:28]  * yurchor kicks bad fortune
[12:28] <andrejz> i am also an upstream contibutor
[12:28] <andrejz> in fact I started as a gnome translator
[12:29] <andrejz> and i agree it takes extra effort to commit bug fixes both in LP and gnome (in Lp so that they are fixed ASAP in ubuntu)
[12:30] <TLE> Wuhu, Ubuntu translators page on Google+ up, follow and share: https://plus.google.com/b/102330453873285638035/
[12:31] <andrejz> I am not sure how far along is export from LP to upstream but again that is not the solution because then KDE transaltions could be overwritten by downstream in some cases, which would cause even more friction
[12:31] <andrejz> i subbed TLE
[12:32] <andrejz> yurchor, ultimately you need to sit down for a beer with your ubuntu translations team and discuss it ;)
[12:33] <yurchor> The most "friction" during the last cycle were caused by translation *not exported" by Ubuntu. There is no such thing as Ubuntu Ukrainian (and for the lack of activity, not Russian).
[12:33] <yurchor> My messages form Launchpad interface go nowhere (bug of Launchpad).
[12:33] <yurchor> ?
[12:34] <andrejz> yeah there might be some bugs in implementation, i agree
[12:40] <andrejz> also imports are not working ok all the time
[12:41] <andrejz> for example in april i got 1000 suggestions in package evolution which were dated in november 2010
[14:05] <artnay> andrejz: are you able to provide back fuzzies to upstream? that's one reason why upstream doesn't like LP
[14:06] <artnay> I just noticed clementine ditched LP for transifex
[14:10] <andrejz> i don't know enought about technology behind it to be sure. That's why i am asking ;)
[14:50] <happyaron> dpm: ping
[14:51] <dpm> happyaron, freeflying just pinged me, is this about the same topic?
[14:51] <happyaron> dpm: right
[14:51] <dpm> joining #ubuntu-cn-translators now
[14:51] <happyaron> dpm: thanks
[15:13] <ashickur-noor> Hi there
[15:14] <ashickur-noor> I am a new translator of Ubuntu
[15:15] <andrejz> hello
[15:15] <ashickur-noor> I need some help about it
[15:16] <ashickur-noor> is there any rules to translation
[15:16] <ashickur-noor> or I can translate word by word?
[15:19] <geirha> Translating word by word should generally be avoided.
[15:19] <ashickur-noor> geirha:  then How should I do?
[15:20] <andrejz> well try to understand the meaning of the string in english
[15:20] <andrejz> and try to translate it so it has the same meaning in your language
[15:22] <ashickur-noor> andrejz: hum I doing that thing
[15:22] <ashickur-noor> any other thing that keep in mind?
[15:22] <andrejz> usually each language has it's guidelines, try to find them
[15:23] <andrejz> usually there are some tricks you need to be carefull about in every language
[15:23] <ashickur-noor> can you give me any link?
[15:23] <andrejz> i don't know which language you are talking about
[15:23] <ashickur-noor> what kind of trick
[15:23] <ashickur-noor> Bengali(bn-bd)
[15:24] <andrejz> like for example in my language it's not correct to translate "FTP server" but you should instead use "server FTP"
[15:24] <andrejz> different order of words. many people are not aware of that when they start for example
[15:24] <ashickur-noor> oh
[15:24] <ashickur-noor> I know that
[15:24] <geirha> ashickur-noor: You might find fellow Bengali translators in #ubuntu-bd
[15:24] <ashickur-noor> any other thing?
[15:25] <ashickur-noor> there is no one
[15:25] <ashickur-noor> let check again
[15:26] <ashickur-noor> Only two person there
[15:26] <andrejz> here is your team link - https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-l10n-bn
[15:26] <andrejz> you can use this mailing list to communicate -<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[15:26] <andrejz> check here
[15:26] <andrejz> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-l10n-bn
[15:26] <andrejz> or just contact team leader
[15:27] <ashickur-noor> Hum need to contact with him
[15:28] <andrejz> at the beginning your translations are marked as suggestions until someone confirms them
[15:39] <ashickur-noor> what does it means <emphasis>
[15:43] <ashickur-noor> ??


[02:34] <InHisName> I've had dinner, I'm not hungry any more, jedijf
[06:09] <ChinnoDog> I won an auction on eBay, paid for it, received it, and /then/ eBay cancelled the aucion. What is the sense in that?
[08:50] <bts3685|vps> hey, anyone need a consultant for anything linuxy? i'm tight for cash until $newjob paychecks start rolling in, and i gots ta eat. and pay bills.
[16:45] <ChinnoDog> bts3685|vps: when is $newjob starting?
[16:45] <ChinnoDog> @seen Irishmanluke
[16:45] <PennBot`> ChinnoDog: Irishmanluke was last seen in #ubuntu-us-pa 1 year, 1 week, 0 days, 0 hours, 38 minutes, and 24 seconds ago: <Irishmanluke> ah
[16:45] <ChinnoDog> 1 year? It hasn't been that long.
[16:46] <ChinnoDog> @seen Irishmanluke'
[16:46] <PennBot`> ChinnoDog: I have not seen Irishmanluke'.
[16:46] <ChinnoDog> @seen Irishmanluke`
[16:46] <PennBot`> ChinnoDog: I have not seen Irishmanluke`.
[16:46] <ChinnoDog> I don't know what the trailing character was.
[17:00] <MutantTurkey> @seen Irishmanluke_
[17:00] <PennBot`> MutantTurkey: I have not seen Irishmanluke_.
[17:00] <MutantTurkey> hmmmm....
[17:07] <ChinnoDog> @seen Irishmanluke~
[17:07] <PennBot`> ChinnoDog: I have not seen Irishmanluke~.
[17:07] <ChinnoDog> I thought it was some time of apostrophe or quote
[17:08] <ChinnoDog> @seen Irishmanluke^
[17:08] <PennBot`> ChinnoDog: I have not seen Irishmanluke^.
[17:11] <MutantTurkey> @seen Irishmanluke1
[17:11] <PennBot`> MutantTurkey: I have not seen Irishmanluke1.
[17:12] <MutantTurkey> hrm
[17:12] <MutantTurkey> I am stumped ChinnoDog
[17:19] <ChinnoDog> Me too, and I am too lazy to check my log
[17:34] <rmg51>   @seen Irishman1uke
[17:35] <rmg51> @seen Irishman1uke
[17:35] <PennBot`> rmg51: Irishman1uke was last seen in #ubuntu-us-pa 1 year, 26 weeks, 5 days, 9 hours, 9 minutes, and 15 seconds ago: <Irishman1uke> morning
[20:08] <waltman> he was on #plug this morning...
[20:47] <andrew> PennBot`: nick PennBot
[22:17]  * ChinnoDog yawns
[22:25]  * SamuraiAlba plays RoM
[22:35] <mikedep334> hey guys, I want to benchmark the time to compile the 2.6.38 vanilla kernel on my efika mx (arm nettop) once I extract it, isn't there an option I can use to not compile every single module or whatever?
[22:36] <mikedep334>  I found online for 1 cpu: # yes "" | make config # time make -j2
[22:53] <ChinnoDog> mikedep334: If you are just trying to benchmark your nettop you can use the Phoronix test suite.
[22:53] <ChinnoDog> I made some lovely graphics when benchmarking my hard disk configuration on my desktop. I should have posted them.
[22:53] <ChinnoDog> s/graphics/graphs
[22:54] <ChinnoDog> I showed that 2x10krpm hard disks is faster on btrfs than 2x10k + 1x72k. btrfs apparently doesn't take the latency difference into account as well as it could.
[22:54] <mikedep334> ChinnoDog: I'm not certain, but I'd bet the phoronix test suite won't run completely on this armel machine.
[22:55] <mikedep334> it only does OpenGL ES for example
[22:55] <ChinnoDog> Oh. I've never tried to run it on architectures other than x86
[22:55] <ChinnoDog> x86/x64
[22:57] <mikedep334> ChinnoDog: yeah, this is very different beast.
[22:57] <mikedep334> http://www.genesi-usa.com/products/efika
[22:57] <PennBot> Title: Genesi - EFIKA MX Open Client (at www.genesi-usa.com)
[23:01] <ChinnoDog> http://www.genesi-usa.com/products/efika
[23:01] <PennBot> Title: Genesi - EFIKA MX Open Client (at www.genesi-usa.com)
[23:01] <ChinnoDog> oops
[23:01] <ChinnoDog> sorry. I always forget right click pastes in PuTTY
[23:01] <mikedep334> ChinnoDog: and my "open link in browser" option doesn't work for me in PChat on WIn7
[23:03] <ChinnoDog> Yea. I think there is a way to fix link recognition in PuTTY but I've been too lazy to do it
[23:03] <ChinnoDog> Is that the cheapest of the current wave of ARM netbooks?
[23:09] <ChinnoDog> mikedep334: I can not find a page showing all Ubuntu based arm netbooks. How did you find that?
[23:18] <mikedep334> ChinnoDog: they're very rare
[23:18] <mikedep334> and beta-ish
[23:19] <mikedep334> http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=sharp+netwalker
[23:19] <PennBot> Title: sharp netwalker - Google Search (at www.google.com)
[23:19] <mikedep334> the sharp netwalker is 5", but has the same SoC as the Efika MX SmartTop & Smartbook
[23:20] <mikedep334> the SoC is the Freescale i.MX515, with an 800 Mhz ARM Cortex A8 CPU Core
[23:20] <mikedep334> it's instruction set it ARMv7
[23:20] <mikedep334> (ARM11 CPUs are ARMv6 instructions, ARM9 CPUs are ARMv5 instructions)
[23:21] <mikedep334> I'm not sure why, but debian/ubuntu always use "armel" packages; not sure how they relate to those ARMv* revisions
[23:21] <mikedep334> "arm" was the old instruction set used by debian
[23:22] <mikedep334> there was another company releasing a smartbook with the same CPU/SoC recently, I think it was more expensive
[23:23] <mikedep334> now a bunch of Tegra 2 (Tegra 250) smartbooks (ARM netbooks) are coming out; I've only seen them running ANDROID
[23:23] <mikedep334> smartbooks have been largely shelved for a year now because manufacturers are focusing on tablets
[23:24] <mikedep334> this a prominent tegra 250 ANDROID smartbook
[23:24] <mikedep334> http://www.engadget.com/2011/02/24/toshiba-ac100-smartbook-gets-android-2-2-upgrade/
[23:24] <PennBot> Title: Toshiba AC100 smartbook gets Android 2.2 upgrade -- Engadget (at www.engadget.com)
[23:25] <mikedep334> there's also lots of cheap/generic chinese designs, but they seem to all have pitifully slow ARM9/ARM11 CPUs, even at 1 ghz, an ARM11 isn't really good enough for Ubuntu
[23:26] <mikedep334> ChinnoDog: also, keep in mind, there is almost no standardization to ARM hardware yet (Linaro, an Ubuntu-sponsored project), is working on that
[23:26] <mikedep334> so you need specific images of the OS for different hardware
[23:27] <mikedep334> and you can brick your devices often if you flash the flash memory wrong


[07:01] <kjackal> Good morning Juju world!
[08:37] <cnf> ohai
[08:56] <Naz> Hi, I am deploying a charm in Juju, and watching Juju debug-log status. Z Message for related unit is waiting for machine &state of z machine is Pending. Normally, after z machine starts; logs in z watch debug-log starts flowing. My question is : How to check the logs of the undergoing actions prior having the machine started , I mean the logs of machine STARTING-UP? (PS: juju ssh -m controller 0 and tail -f /var/log/juju/logsink.log is wai
[09:02] <kjackal> hi Naz, are you able to ssh into the machine?
[09:02] <kjackal> Naz: if the machine is stuck on provisioning you can retry-rpovisioning
[09:03] <kjackal>  juju retry-provisioning
[09:03] <kjackal> if you can ssh into the machine all juju logs should under /var/log/juju
[09:07] <Naz> Hi Kjackal, Thank you for your reply. In fact, I am interested in seeing the logs prior allocating the IP Address for the machine, i.e. the machine is still in state PENDING
[09:09] <kjackal> ok... so if it does not have an Ip.... I would look at the console of you cloud(?) provider?
[09:09] <kjackal> Naz: ^
[09:09] <admcleod> Naz: you could also try debug-log without any switches, or all-machines.log on the controller
[09:12] <Naz> Yes, for example: id: 19       State: pending  <IP_ADDRESS>  juju-8aa58b-19  xenial
[09:13] <Naz> Even If the ip address is allocated, I still cannot ssh it until it's started.. In fact:
[09:13] <Naz> juju ssh 19 ERROR retrieving SSH host keys for "19": keys not found
[09:13] <Naz> Hi Admcleod, let me try please, one sec
[09:14] <Naz> @Kjackal, I am working on local Cloud (LXD)
[09:16] <Naz> @Admcleod, where is the all-machines.log? In fact, after sshing into the controller, I get ubuntu@juju-b99076-0:/var/log/juju$ ll total 48172 drwxr-xr-x 2 syslog adm           5 May 16 13:13 ./ drwxrwxr-x 8 root   syslog       23 May 25 06:25 ../ -rw------- 1 syslog syslog        0 May 16 13:13 audit.log -rw------- 1 syslog syslog 47220599 May 29 09:15 logsink.log -rw------- 1 syslog syslog  1846025 May 29 09:07 machine-0.log
[09:17] <Naz> @Admcleod, where is the all-machines.log? In fact, after sshing into the controller, I get ubuntu@juju-b99076-0:/var/log/juju$ ll ---> audit.log and logsink.log and machine-0.log
[09:18] <Zic> lazyPower: hi, respawning the cluster which had the race-condition on etcd unit, crossfingered \o/
[09:18] <kjackal> Naz: then your lxc logs are under /var/log/lxc (or lxd?) also have a look here to get access to the the lxc contaners spawed by juju http://lzone.de/cheat-sheet/LXC
[09:19] <kjackal> Naz: you sill probably need something like sudo lxc list and sudo lxc exec -- /bin/sh (I hope)
[09:21] <Naz> @Kjackal, let me try it please :)
[09:25] <Naz> @Kjackal, HP:/var/log/lxd/juju-8aa58b-19$ ll  [09:25] <Naz> @Kjackal, $more lxc.log [09:26] <kjackal> Naz: so you see the container in lxc list?
[09:27] <Naz> @kjackal, yes, I see it in lxc list
[09:27] <kjackal> can you get a shell inside the container?
[09:28] <kjackal> Naz: something like lxc execute juju-8aa58b-19 -- /bin/sh (I hope)
[09:29] <Naz> @kjackal: last line is [09:29] <Naz> $ lxc execute juju-8aa58b-19 -- /bin/sh ---> Usage: lxc <command> [options]  [09:30] <Naz> ok
[09:30] <kjackal> Naz: lxc exec  juju-8aa58b-19 -- /bin/bash
[09:30] <Naz> it should be lxc-execute
[09:31] <Naz> $ lxc-execute juju-8aa58b-19 -- /bin/sh The program 'lxc-execute' is currently not installed. You can install it by typing: sudo apt install lxc1
[09:31] <kjackal> can you please try lxc exec ?
[09:31] <Naz> Yes, :) lxc exec  juju-8aa58b-19 -- /bin/bash [09:33] <Naz> I got the shell inside the machine although its pending !, now what? :)
[09:34] <kjackal> Naz: is there anything interesting under /var/logs?
[09:34] <kjackal> do you have network interfaces up?
[09:36] <Naz> @kjackal, you are the man :), Yes, in the /var/log, there is an up-to-date syslog file that captures the ongoing event while the machine is pending
[09:37] <kjackal> :)
[09:41] <Naz> @Admcleod, I didnt find all-machines.log neither of the host nor on the controller: [09:41] <Naz> Thank you Kjackal and Thank you Admcleod.
[16:09] <erik_lonroth> Hello. I'm trying once again to get a charm python-django get get out of a "stuck" situation. I'm trying the things I've learned by "remove-application", "resolved"  etc. But I'm stuck and cant get out of it. Seems my only way forward is to purge the environment (again). This is a pain since it takes a while to re-create the situation and I'm in a debug mode at the moment. Is there any trix you use to get a unit out of a "deadlock/s
[16:09] <erik_lonroth> tuck" situation so I don't end up in a debug cycle that takes forever?
[17:16] <Budgie^Smore> o/ juju world
[17:28] <Catalys> Does the charm of openstack-base support configurating the root password injection too?
[17:36] <Budgie^Smore> Catalys for the underlying system? or for the UI?
[17:36] <Budgie^Smore> OpenStack UI*
[17:54] <Catalys> Budgie^Smore I believe that the dashboard has a variable for the injection in its local_settings.py and compute has it in the nova.conf, so I assume both then.
[17:54] <Catalys> Budgie^Smore That said the dashboard says it has it on by default though.
[17:56] <Budgie^Smore> so which root password are we talking? juju sets up password-less login and injects an ssh key into the underlying os root account
[17:57] <Catalys> Budgie^Smore Oh sorry I should have mentioned that I am talking about the root password of instances created by Openstack which runs on Juju :).
[17:57] <Catalys> Budgie^Smore Normally I would run "juju config compute-nova" to change a setting though.
[18:00] <Catalys> https://docs.openstack.org/admin-guide/compute-admin-password-injection.html
[18:04] <Budgie^Smore> Catalys ah yes
[18:04] <Budgie^Smore> Catalys been a long time since I cared about passwords like that :)
[18:08] <Catalys> Budgie^Smore Yes I guess SSH keys are the norm but passwords are still easy for development stuff, at least so I feel about it. Btw I did try "juju config openstack-dashboard retrieve-password=true" but that didn't seem to much affect do I have to do something additional to activate that?
[18:12] <Catalys> Budgie^Smore And when I ssh into a compute node and add it myself into the config, won't it reset upon reboot though?
[18:13] <Budgie^Smore> Catalys that has been my experience of "manual" config changes, could the image used to create the VM be turning it off? disclaimer: not a juju dev but like to help if I can :)
[18:14] <Catalys> Budgie^Smore Do you mean turn off the retrieve password option or injection :)?
[18:15] <Budgie^Smore> Catalys no, you can build an image that turns off password login in ssh so regardless of a password injection or not it will fail to log in with a password
[18:15] <Catalys> Budgie^Smore Oh true but it doesn't generate a password in the first place, it only seems to inject key pairs at the moment.
[18:17] <Catalys> Budgie^Smore That said there is cloud-init though.
[18:17] <Budgie^Smore> Catalys but even then in the companies I have work in we used keys or certs for all environments (even our work systems only used local passwords), that way no passwords were transmitted across the network, and sshkeys / certs had local passphrases
[19:09] <Catalys> Budgie^Smore Turns out the easiest for now might be using scripts which run post installation, now I move on to figuring out why my external network doesn't work haha.
[19:14] <Catalys> Budgie^Smore It gets a IP from the DHCP server, feel free to jump in if you've got an idea though.


[05:10] <DalekSec> Yeah, that doesn't contain it all, I'm not great with bzr so it didn't do what I want.
[21:08] <cub> zequence, for 14.04 I only have one target in particular, to get Orca to work with both speech and braille on the installation DVD. Other than that I will try to pitch in where I can. As soon as I can find the right branches I can start testing the Orca parts. I reckon it won't be to difficult (famous last words...)
[21:10] <cub> Then to get on with the applications and work flows


[21:38] <jack> hi guys
[21:38] <jack> i really need help with routing alsa to jack in UBstudio
[21:39] <jack> anyone that can help me please
[21:40] <OvenWerks> jack: Can you give more information on what you are trying to do?
[21:40] <jack> yes sur
[21:41] <jack> the system sounds that normally use Alsa stop working because jack is hijacking alsa
[21:41] <OvenWerks> jack: how are you starting jack?
[21:42] <jack> i use qjackctl
[21:43] <OvenWerks> jack do you find a jack sink in sound settings?
[21:43] <OvenWerks> sound settings from the speaker icon in the top bar
[21:43] <OvenWerks> look in output devices
[21:44] <jack> i see built in audio analog stereo, loopback analog stereo
[21:44] <OvenWerks> you may have to scroll down
[21:45] <jack> no scrolling available
[21:45] <jack> i even resized the window to double check
[21:46] <OvenWerks> ok, try opening a terminal and typing: cd /tmp && wget http://jackaudio.org/downloads/adevices.sh && bash ./adevices.sh
[21:46] <OvenWerks> that is all one line
[21:46] <OvenWerks> copy and paste to a paste site and pass us the url
[21:46] <OvenWerks> pastebin.com or similar
[21:48] <jack> sure https://justpaste.it/129ao
[21:50] <OvenWerks> jackd is not running it looks like
[21:50] <jack> appreciate the help thank you
[21:50] <jack> not atm
[21:50] <jack> want me to run and repaste?
[21:51] <OvenWerks> jackdbus does not seem to be responding to things well either. you may have to kill -9 jackdbus first
[21:51] <jack> i just installed ubuntu studio today
[21:52] <OvenWerks> I understand, jack_control status should not return an error, that means jackdbus needs to be restarted.
[21:53] <jack> i have no idea how to kill -9 jackbus or what it means
[21:53] <OvenWerks> how do you have qjackctl set up?
[21:53] <OvenWerks> just type kill -9 jackdbus in a terminal
[21:53] <OvenWerks> then do jack_control status and it should say stopped.
[21:54] <jack> it says bash: kill: jackdbus: arguments must be process or job IDs
[21:55] <OvenWerks> sorry, I should have said killall -9 jackdbus.
[21:56] <jack> no process found it says
[21:56] <jack> no worries just happy i can get help with this and thanks for taking the time
[21:57] <OvenWerks> so does jack_control status work for you then?
[21:58] <jack> let me put it this way: bitwig works with jack atm but all other sounds like vlc and browser stop working
[21:59] <OvenWerks> Which is correct operation actually.
[21:59] <jack> true
[21:59] <OvenWerks> but there should be a PA-jack bridge running to allow jack to pass through desktop sound
[22:00] <OvenWerks> The paste you sent seems to indicate jackdbus di not stop correctly for some reason so I was making sure that was fixed
[22:00] <jack> that is exactly my aim to pass through desktop sound
[22:01] <OvenWerks> so maybe use qjackctl to start jack again. and look in the connections window of qjackctl.
[22:01] <jack> i believe i installed a pa jack bridge but not sure
[22:01] <OvenWerks> ubuntustudio comes with it by default
[22:01] <jack> ok
[22:02] <jack> in connections i see bitwig on top and system below it both stereo
[22:02] <OvenWerks> Did you start bitwig first or qjackctl?
[22:02] <jack> jack first
[22:02] <jack> then bitwig
[22:03] <OvenWerks> connections does not show anything that says pulse or something like that?
[22:03] <jack> is it true that ubstudio should pass through desktop sound out of the box?
[22:03] <jack> no strangely
[22:04] <OvenWerks> jack only with manual connection at this time.
[22:04] <OvenWerks> but the bridge should start up ok.
[22:04] <OvenWerks> in a terminal type pulseaudio -k
[22:04] <OvenWerks> does the bridge apear in connections after that?
[22:05] <jack> no it does not appear. I did notice that the pulse audio volume control had some changes. Output devices is reduced to 1 only:loopback analog stereo
[22:06] <jack> restarting jack solved that though
[22:06] <OvenWerks> yes because pulse does not see your sound device as available.
[22:07] <jack> so i assume that the pulse audio is supposed to appear in the connections of jack control?
[22:07] <OvenWerks> in qjackctl setup -> Misc do you have enable d-bus interface on?
[22:07] <jack> that is the aim i mean?
[22:07] <OvenWerks> yes it should
[22:08] <jack> is enabled yes
[22:08] <jack> patchbay an option?
[22:08] <OvenWerks> ok, try running the command above and pasting again.
[22:09] <OvenWerks> patch bay is not the right window.
[22:09] <jack> no i was just thinking out loud on the patchbay
[22:09] <OvenWerks> cd /tmp && wget http://jackaudio.org/downloads/adevices.sh && bash ./adevices.sh
[22:09] <OvenWerks> with jack running
[22:09] <OvenWerks> and paste
[22:10] <jack> so cd /tmp && wget http://jackaudio.org/downloads/adevices.sh && bash ./adevices.sh while jack is runnung?
[22:10] <OvenWerks> yes
[22:10] <jack> paste and send url again?
[22:10] <OvenWerks> yes
[22:11] <jack> https://justpaste.it/129br there you go
[22:12] <jack> so pulse audio is like an alsa loopback device?
[22:12] <OvenWerks> OK, you are running jackd... probably started by bitwig rather than qjackctl.
[22:12] <OvenWerks> qjackctl should run jackdbus
[22:13] <jack> sorry i will retry
[22:13] <jack> forgot to quit bitwig
[22:13] <OvenWerks>  the pa-jack bridge depends on the dbus version of jack
[22:14] <OvenWerks> jack: I am sorry but I have to go pick up my wife. I should be back in 30 to 60 minutes
[22:14] <jack> https://justpaste.it/129bv
[22:14] <jack> yes thanks for the help btw
[22:15] <OvenWerks> it still says that jackd has the device. so from a terminal type killall -9 jackd.
[22:16] <OvenWerks> bitwig may leave jackd running or something (it shouldn't)
[22:16] <jack> it worked jack stopped
[22:17] <jack> restart jack and paste and url again?
[22:18] <jack> i saw this script pacmd load-module module-jack-source channels=2; pacmd load-module module-jack-sink channels=2;  it is supposed to be put in jack options execute script after startup
[22:20] <jack> after killall i restarted jack and used that command line while jack is running. Here is the link again https://justpaste.it/129c3
[22:23] <OvenWerks> I'll be back later.. in about 45 to 60 minutes
[22:26] <jack> yes of course
[22:26] <jack> take care
[22:27] <jack> I tried running this script in jack control>setup>options>execute script at startup: pacmd load-module module-jack-source channels=2; pacmd load-module module-jack-sink channels=2;   now pulse audio is available in connections
[22:30] <jack> damn that sclyript did the job actual
[22:30] <jack> damn that script did the job actually


[00:44] <Quintasan> I NEED A NEW HARD DRIVE
[00:44] <Quintasan> LIKE NOW
[00:44] <yofel> what happened this time? ^^
[00:44] <Quintasan> somehow
[00:45] <Quintasan> I managed to make partitions that way so A is partly aligned on B
[00:45] <yofel> *blink*
[00:45] <Quintasan> the end of A covers like 10% of the beginning of B
[00:45] <Quintasan> I have like absolutely no idea how did I make it so
[00:46] <Quintasan> Gotta buy a HDD, copy everything and set up an RAID + LVM fianlly
[02:46] <ahoneybun> hey ovidiu-florin lordievader
[03:43] <valorie> ahoneybun: I couldn't open your link above
[03:43] <valorie> same message as Riddell got
[03:44] <valorie> no object or whatever
[03:44] <ahoneybun> oh can't remember what I sent
[03:45]  * genii sips coffee and wonders when jussi will have hoodies
[03:45] <ahoneybun> valorie: http://userbase.kde.org/Kubuntu/Contribute this is a good example of a great page
[03:47] <valorie> it looks spiffy
[03:47] <valorie> have you checked all the links?
[03:48] <ahoneybun> believe so
[03:49] <ahoneybun> also fixed the ones on the main page
[03:49] <ahoneybun> as I made them
[03:50] <valorie> awesome
[03:50] <valorie> you are tearing it up!
[03:51] <ahoneybun> software is almost done, installation is not started
[03:51] <ahoneybun> http://userbase.kde.org/Kubuntu I made a Advanced page and moved some of the none basic things there
[03:52] <ahoneybun> best thing is that I'm off from work for 2 weeks so I will have time lol
[03:54] <valorie> yes, I noticed that
[03:54] <valorie> I think the basic page is now actually just basic
[03:54] <valorie> which is exactly what we want
[03:54] <ahoneybun> excellent
[03:55] <ahoneybun> just what I planned
[03:55] <valorie> I'm so happy about this
[03:56] <valorie> as soon as we have a few pages with no Construction tags on, I'll write to the translators
[03:56] <ahoneybun> the move or how the docs are shaping you, or both lol
[03:56] <ahoneybun> I love those tags lol
[03:56] <valorie> yes, they are awesome
[03:56] <valorie> the whole system is really excellent
[03:57] <ahoneybun> this is nice http://userbase.kde.org/Kubuntu/Advanced#PPAs_.28Personal_Package_Archive.29
[03:57] <valorie> they've worked really hard to get everything easy to use, clean of spam, etc.
[03:57] <ahoneybun> the warning note
[03:57] <valorie> the warning box? yeah
[03:57] <ahoneybun> love it
[03:57] <valorie> although that won't exactly translate over to html
[03:57] <ahoneybun> oh
[03:57] <valorie> but we can hack up something
[03:58] <valorie> a box and change in font
[03:58] <ahoneybun> as long as it is noted to the user
[03:58] <valorie> there may even be scripts that do that, since mediawiki is so widely used
[03:58] <valorie> no one works on moin, since it's basically dead
[03:58] <valorie> except for the ubuntu wikis
[03:59] <valorie> which are nice, but you can really appreciate the difference now
[04:00] <ahoneybun> yea do you have the email for the admin people
[04:00] <valorie> which admin people?
[04:00] <ahoneybun> ubuntu people
[04:00] <valorie> oh, no
[04:00] <ahoneybun> to get the kubuntu.org/doc things off
[04:00] <ahoneybun> oh
[04:00] <valorie> I've never corresponded with them
[04:00] <ahoneybun> ok
[04:01] <valorie> just remove the pages or put in a redirect as you are done
[04:01] <valorie> redirect would be best, actually
[04:01] <ahoneybun> been told I can't
[04:01] <valorie> in case someone has linked to the old pages
[04:01] <ahoneybun> ubuntu sys admins have the access
[04:01] <valorie> well, you can put in the new link at the top
[04:01] <ahoneybun> http://www.kubuntu.org/doc/7.10/index/C/index.html
[04:01] <ahoneybun> this
[04:01] <valorie> and say that that is where current docs are being worked on
[04:02] <valorie> I don't see a reason to get the ubuntu admins involved
[04:03] <valorie> just remove most of the content of each old page and give a link to the new one
[04:03] <ahoneybun> http://www.kubuntu.org/community/contribute I changed the link on the Documentation part to the new one on userbase.kde.org
[04:03] <valorie> when we stop adding new ones there, we can go back and fix all the old ones remaining
[04:03] <valorie> most will stay just for historical purposes
[04:03] <valorie> and we still have an LTS going
[04:04] <ahoneybun> is kinda confused on what we are talking about>?
[04:04] <valorie> the old wiki documentation pages
[04:04] <valorie> I don't think we can move *entirely* off the ubuntu wiki system
[04:04] <ahoneybun> http://www.kubuntu.org/doc/7.10/index/C/index.html this are old things that we need to remove
[04:04] <valorie> just the docs
[04:05] <ahoneybun> oh wiki.kubuntu.org?
[04:05] <valorie> I'm looking at that page, and don't see exactly to what you refer
[04:05] <valorie> on www.kub.org
[04:06] <valorie> which old things do we need to remove?
[04:06] <ahoneybun> http://www.kubuntu.org/doc/7.10/index/C/index.html
[04:06] <valorie> we have access to www.kub.org
[04:06] <valorie> ask Riddell for keys
[04:06]  * valorie doesn't have the password
[04:06] <ahoneybun> kubuntu.org or kub.org?
[04:08] <valorie> kubuntu.org
[04:08] <ahoneybun> what admin-kubuntu.org?
[04:08] <valorie> often called ko
[04:08] <valorie> um, I don't have an account to edit anything on the website
[04:09] <valorie> Riddell or jussi do thought
[04:09] <ahoneybun> I do
[04:09] <valorie> though
[04:09] <valorie> oh, ok
[04:09] <valorie> cool
[04:09] <ahoneybun> well passwords
[04:09] <ahoneybun> Riddell and yofel gave them
[04:10] <valorie> super
[04:10] <ahoneybun> we have the feature tour getting worked on as a google project
[04:10] <valorie> ah, GCi?
[04:10] <valorie> that's great
[04:11] <valorie> I got a lot of the Amarok Handbook done in the first year I did GCi
[04:11] <valorie> with the help of the students
[04:11] <ahoneybun> jose is doing it
[04:13] <valorie> ok
[04:14] <valorie> ultimately, I'd like us to comb through the whole website and wiki, and get rid of old crap
[04:14] <valorie> but that can be done as we have time
[04:16] <ahoneybun> yea'
[04:18] <valorie> lots of old garbage on the KDE system too
[04:18] <valorie> but all in good time
[04:19] <valorie> lots of the old kde.org pages should just be deleted or archived, but again, no one has time right now
[04:19] <valorie> ok, time for tv news
[04:19] <valorie> ttyl
[04:19] <ahoneybun> yep our main goal is going to get the Docs ready
[06:18] <Tm_T> pkg: error processing /var/cache/apt/archives/kopete_4%3a4.12.0-0ubuntu1~ubuntu13.10~ppa1_amd64.deb (--unpack): trying to overwrite '/usr/lib/kde4/kopete_cryptography.so', which is also in package kopete-cryptography 1.3.0-kde4.4.0-0ubuntu5
[06:19] <Tm_T> so kpt-crypto isn't on separate package anymore?
[07:11] <soee> good morning
[07:59] <kubotu> ::qt-bugs:: [1242633] unity pointer barriers sru bug @ https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1242633 (by Maarten Lankhorst)
[08:12] <jdrab> aww god i love kubuntu..
[08:48] <lordievader> ahoneybun: ping
[08:49] <lordievader> Good morning btw.
[13:02] <BluesKaj> hiyas all
[13:14] <xnox> apachelogger: retried a few failed neon builds with new cmake, they are now passing. closing the cmake bug.
[13:14] <apachelogger> xnox: thanks <3
[13:14] <xnox> apachelogger: i think https://code.launchpad.net/~neon/+archive/kf5/+build/5370150 this might also be exposed to cmake changes, can you confirm if "./debian/rules build" works with those dependencies installed from the PPA?
[13:15] <xnox> apachelogger: also, is it known that a few things are depwait on kdelibs5?
[13:15] <apachelogger> xnox: that's transitional
[13:15] <apachelogger> kdelibs was split into a bazillion repos
[13:15] <apachelogger> been boostrapping for days :S
[13:16] <xnox> apachelogger: lovely.... i think?! =)
[13:17] <apachelogger> more atomic dependencies, also it means that qt applications can use general purpose awesomeness like solid or sonnet without dragging in half of kde
[15:26] <tester56> does nepomuk clean indexed data if a file the indexed data belongs to is removed?
[15:35] <tester56> this would make perfect sense ... for example i got sent a file over skype that contained links to pornsites and other stuff I do not really want to have on my computer which will be indexed by nepomuk. As nepomuk stores many stuff like tags etc. cleaning the whole database does not make sense ... so it would be nice to know that removing a certain file removes all the index information ...
[15:37] <tester56> this way the database would not store unnecessary information ... (as i migrate the whole database all the time)
[19:03] <cyphermox> Riddell: so, ModemManager. Do you know if debian has the updates plasma codes and all of that to support it?
[19:08] <soee> hows trusty woks for you guys with KDE SC 4.12 ?
[19:15] <genii> Fine so far here
[19:16] <soee> geni some annoying bugs maybe ?
[19:23] <genii> soee: I had only one during updates, it had some issue with upgrading sendmail and got into a loop on postinstall. Had to remove sendmail. Installed postfix instead for now. Otherwise no complaints ( no new ones that is, which are different from 13.10 or such! )
[19:25] <soee> ah nice :) thanks genii
[20:54] <jose> Riddell: ping
[21:09] <jose> or valorie, ahoneybun: ping
[21:17] <valorie> hi jose, what's up?
[21:17] <jose> valorie: hey, I was updating the screenshots for the feature tour on kubuntu.org, but let's say, games. the kpatience one is the same one, and I cannot find the other games preinstalled
[21:18] <valorie> kpatience is the only pre-installed game, afaik
[21:18] <valorie> and yes, I don't think it's changed for awhile
[21:18] <jose> I've been quite busy as I just got graduated but read on the backlog that ahoneybun was going to take some screenshots and send them to me
[21:19] <valorie> ok
[21:19] <valorie> if the current screenie is good and current, you don't need to replace it
[21:19] <valorie> imo
[21:19] <jose> that's what I was thinking, just wanted to confirm with someone on the team :)
[21:20] <valorie> we're all about good results, not needless work
[21:20] <valorie> congratulations on graduation!
[21:20] <valorie> that
[21:20] <valorie> 's a huge accomplishment
[21:20] <jose> thanks, now the next step is university :)
[21:21] <jose> still a looong way to go
[21:21] <valorie> I found that a lot more fun
[21:21] <valorie> now you have built the foundation
[21:22] <jose> we'll see how it goes, I should be alright
[21:27] <soee> hmm i have 4.12 here on saucy
[21:27] <soee> now i see several packages to update like kde-workspace
[21:28] <soee> it says i  have 4.11.3 and wants to update to 4.11.3 also
[21:28] <soee> ant other packages the same
[21:29] <valorie> did you add the beta ppa?
[21:29] <soee> the new version is with ~ubuntu13.10~ppa1
[21:29] <soee> valorie: i had it from ninjas ppa
[21:29] <valorie> I did updates yesterday, but still have 4.11.3
[21:29] <valorie> oh, ok
[21:30] <soee> valorie: 4.12 is in backports
[21:30] <soee> https://launchpad.net/~kubuntu-ppa/+archive/backports?field.series_filter=saucy
[21:32] <valorie> ah, I wonder why I don't have it then?
[21:37] <soee> what was the command to do release upgrade ?
[21:37] <soee> saucy -> trusty ?
[21:38] <BluesKaj> soee, sudo do-release-upgrade -d
[21:52] <jose> ahoneybun: hey, around?
[21:53] <noobie> Hello
[21:54] <valorie> ahoneybun, Riddell, apachelogger: updated https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Repositories/Kubuntu a bit, basically by copying our good new wiki page
[21:54] <noobie> I would like to ask, if it is possible to disable password typing when on login screen on Kubuntu
[21:54] <valorie> some nice screenies are gone, of the ancient kpackagekit
[21:54] <noobie> in Kubuntu
[21:54] <valorie> noobie: this is the devel channel; support in #kubuntu
[21:54] <noobie> OK
[21:54] <noobie> Goodbye
[21:55] <valorie> hope to see you in #kubuntu
[22:11] <valorie> ha, I didn't have all of backports enabled
[22:11] <valorie> see, working on documentation teaches the workers too
[22:15] <valorie> ok, time to restart to a new kde version!
[22:18] <soee> this looks cool http://dot.kde.org/2013/12/20/plasma-2-technology-preview :)
[22:33] <valorie> 4.12 is awesome so far, btw
[22:40] <jose> hey valorie, have some time like to check some text I corrected on the webpage?
[22:40] <valorie> sure
[22:42] <jose> valorie: on http://www.kubuntu.org/feature-tour-new, I polished the parts of 'Email made easy', 'Chat right from the desktop with your friends' and 'Surf the Internet safely'
[22:44] <valorie> shouldn't there be a divider line between surfing and email?
[22:44] <valorie> and the chat part
[22:44] <apachelogger> kubotu: order some divider lines
[22:44]  * kubotu slides some divider lines down the bar to apachelogger
[22:44]  * apachelogger hands out lines
[22:44] <valorie> with no divisions, the text isn't staying with the images
[22:45]  * apachelogger leaves for booze now
[22:45] <valorie> oooo, sip one for me
[22:45] <jose> hmm, lemme check
[22:45] <valorie> jose, those divs or whatever makes those dividing lines are really needed
[22:46] <jose> because even in the current webpage they're not there
[22:46] <jose> I can try an add them, for sure
[22:46] <valorie> hmmm
[22:46] <valorie> the upper sections have them
[22:46] <valorie> copy that
[22:47] <jose> what I can do is align the text, but the divider line is in fact on its place
[22:47] <jose> as aaaaall that part is 'Internet'
[22:48] <valorie> hmmm
[22:48] <valorie> phone
[22:49] <jose> hmm?
[22:51] <valorie> ok, back
[22:51] <valorie> vet called, appointment made
[22:51] <jose> oh, cool :)
[22:51] <jose> hope your pet's all good
[22:52] <soee> :)
[22:52] <soee> upgrade to trusty a1 finsihed :D
[22:52] <valorie> I think she might have a UTI
[22:53] <valorie> nothing serious, but I'm getting tired of cleaning up pee spots everywhere
[22:54] <jose> well :)
[22:58] <valorie> since when is mail "internet"?
[22:59] <valorie> mail preceeded the creation of the internet
[22:59] <valorie> harrumph, cane-waving, etc.
[23:01] <soee> when can we expect PMC 1.2 for trusty ?
[23:02] <jose> valorie: no idea, but right now the images are not displaying
[23:02] <jose> no idea what happened
[23:05] <jose> valorie: the two images that were on internet are not displaying anymore, should I poke IS about that?
[23:07] <valorie> More open-source browsers are available through Kubuntu's software repositories.
[23:07] <valorie>

[23:07] <valorie>
[23:07] <valorie>
[23:07] <valorie>
[23:07] <valorie>

[23:07] <valorie> looks like mis-named files
[23:07] <jose> hmm, they were like that a while ago and it's not showing anymore
[23:09] <valorie> ok, I guess check in files and see if they are there
[23:09] <valorie> all the other images seem to be in /themes/
[23:09] <valorie> the ones that are correctly displaying
[23:13] <juancarlospaco> hello can somebody help me validate a bug?, need a minute and Kate...
[23:14] <jose> valorie: looks like they're not there, I'll poke IS in a while with my other changes too
[23:14] <valorie> ok
[23:14] <valorie> maybe check in /themes/ too, and see if they are already there?
[23:15] <valorie> I've never worked on the website, so I don't know their setup
[23:16] <soee> juancarlospaco: what bug ?
[23:16] <juancarlospaco> soee: anyone with Kate can paste this and tell me if it brokes up:   เปิดด้วย
[23:16] <jose> well
[23:16] <jose> if ahoneybun or Riddell are around maybe they know
[23:17] <valorie> juancarlospaco: it pastes fine in Kate for me
[23:17] <soee> juancarlospaco: brokes up ? works for me
[23:17] <ahoneybun> jose: know what?
[23:17] <juancarlospaco> try on a text file with text in int
[23:18] <juancarlospaco> in it*
[23:18] <jose> ahoneybun: hey, the images for kmail and telepathy are broken on /feature-tour and /feature-tour-new
[23:18] <juancarlospaco> like paste it on the middle of the text
[23:18] <jose> they were working all right a while ago, which may mean they were deleted somehow
[23:18] <soee> juancarlospaco: works fine
[23:18] <valorie> I saved it, closed the file, called it back up and it is still fine
[23:18] <soee> as valorie said
[23:19] <ahoneybun> jose: you update the site with the new images?
[23:19] <juancarlospaco> ok thanks soee valorie , I was thinking it was bug
[23:19] <jose> ahoneybun: didn't touch anything apart from text, was about to push some changes to a branch
[23:19] <juancarlospaco> its "open with" but on Thailand, I mean Thai
[23:19] <ahoneybun> brb
[23:19] <yofel> jose: those are the only 2 images that are attached to the current drupal page
[23:19] <yofel> ... before that broke
[23:19] <jose> maybe I can put them on the theme?
[23:20] <yofel> go ahread
[23:20] <yofel> *ahead
[23:20] <jose> now let me remember and try and get similar images
[23:21] <valorie> yay, I still remember how to debug html
[23:24] <juancarlospaco> good no bugz
[23:24] <ryanakca> If I remember correctly (I haven't touched the website in a few years), you need to include any images you want in the drupal theme, and then link to them from there.
[23:24] <valorie> juancarlospaco: always good to check stuff out
[23:25] <juancarlospaco> True
[23:25] <ryanakca> The catch (unless this has changed recently), is that you need to nag the Canonical sysadmins for a few months before they get around to updating the drupal theme.
[23:25] <valorie> that's bizarre
[23:25] <valorie> the KDE sysadmins are amazing
[23:25] <valorie> people ask and things are fixed/done in like 5 minutes
[23:26] <yofel> I did manage to attach those 2 images to the website a while ago - but either that broke or the sysadmins removed the permissions
[23:26] <valorie> geez
[23:26] <ryanakca> valorie: Hence my retirement from dealing with the website :)
[23:26] <valorie> well, we can always set up our own drupal and run it on our own space, i guess
[23:26] <valorie> drupal is reasonably secure and non-spammy
[23:27] <ryanakca> When you made major changes to the theme (i.e., introduced a completely new theme), the whole thing had to go through a security audit, blah blah blah. Getting changes applied to the website was the most labour intensive part. But things may have changed since then; I haven't really had anything to do with the website since 2010ish.
[23:27] <valorie> weird
[23:28] <valorie> I worked on teh linuxchix drupal system, and while it was a bit wonky, we just did it
[23:28] <valorie> the
[23:28] <valorie> I guess Canonical has multiples of traffic and attacks, though
[23:29] <valorie> bureaucracy is good in government
[23:29] <valorie> not so good in companies
[23:29] <valorie> and grrrr in free projects
[23:30] <soee> the global menu widget is a bit broken for GTK apps
[23:31] <valorie> you mean the kmenu?
[23:31] <soee> valorie: Window menubar
[23:32] <valorie> hmmm, what do I have that's gtk
[23:32] <valorie> maybe ff
[23:32] <valorie> define broken?
[23:33] <Noskcaj> Can someone check bug 1212848
[23:34] <soee> valorie: it is impossble to open some menu item at first click
[23:34] <valorie> in FF for me, the window menubar, if by that you mean File, Edit etc.
[23:34] <valorie> work flawlessly
[23:38] <jose> valorie: hey, are you a KDE mentor on GCI?
[23:39] <valorie> well, I'm one of the admins
[23:39] <valorie> not really actively mentoring this round
[23:39] <valorie> I have done in the past though
[23:40] <valorie> why?
[23:41] <jose> it's just that my current task (which is the feature-tour site update) includes poking IS to get it updated
[23:42] <jose> and I want to get some approval while Riddell is not here (listed as the task mentor) to finish the task and then submit it
[23:42] <jose> while IS is being poked
[23:42] <ahoneybun> back'
[23:43] <valorie> ok, let me look at the page one more time, and then give me your task link
[23:43] <jose> sure
[23:43] <ahoneybun> so images are not working?
[23:43] <jose> two of them aren't
[23:44] <juancarlospaco> Ive made a Dolphin Service Menu, Its working ok, but it appears on Dolphin Context Menu --> Actions--> Open with , and I want it to appear like  Context Menu --> Open with , it is possible?, Im missing something ?
[23:44] <ahoneybun> oh but they are on the site?
[23:44] <ahoneybun> but you edited the site?
[23:44] <jose> ahoneybun: I edited the site to poke IS as the images I have now put on the theme
[23:45] <yofel> as I said, they're not part of the template but attached to the page in drupal - so they need to be added to the updated template
[23:45] <jose> yeppers
[23:46] <ahoneybun> yofel: was it you who said that the feature tour needed to be readded?
[23:47] <yofel> ahoneybun: well, we want to update it, and only way to do it is updating the template (only way to update the images)
[23:47] <ahoneybun> poke IS?
[23:47] <yofel> not sure what you mean by readding?
[23:47] <ahoneybun> oh
[23:47] <ahoneybun> it to the template
[23:47] <yofel> ah
[23:48] <yofel> weeeelllll. We *could* only update the images in the template and keep the text content in the DB
[23:49] <yofel> not sure what way would be better
[23:49] <ahoneybun> yofel: not as simple as adding a file attachment and changing the image name? like in moinmoin
[23:49] <yofel> that's broken
[23:49] <ahoneybun> I see
[23:49] <ahoneybun> host images else where?
[23:49] <jose> btw, I kept the text on the DB
[23:49] <valorie> ahoneybun: did you see my note above?
[23:50] <ahoneybun> how far up?
[23:50] <yofel> the 2 images we talked about are actually attached to the page, but now I get errors when trying to attach new ones
[23:50] <valorie> about https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Repositories/Kubuntu
[23:50] <ahoneybun> oh packagekit you mean?
[23:51] <valorie> yes
[23:51] <ahoneybun> I saw that
[23:51] <ahoneybun> I'll add it to the pages that need to be refreshed
[23:51] <valorie> I removed all that text, and replaced it with text from our wiki page
[23:51] <ahoneybun> oh
[23:51] <valorie> thank you
[23:51] <ahoneybun> so add it?
[23:51] <valorie> so there are no images, anymore
[23:51] <valorie> well, it should at least be checked
[23:51] <ahoneybun> oh
[23:52] <valorie> I did check links, removed the old text
[23:52] <ahoneybun> added
[23:52] <valorie> and replaced with our new stuff, but I'm sure it could be better
[23:52] <valorie> what would be good is an include, but I'm not sure you can include from a different wiki
[23:52] <ahoneybun> I'll see if I can get new images and add them to that page as well as our doc page talking about repos
[23:53] <valorie> cool
[23:53] <ahoneybun> did you see the pic of websplice?
[23:53] <valorie> um
[23:54] <valorie> sounds familiar, but I'm not sure
[23:54] <ahoneybun> the docs fix better in it
[23:54] <ahoneybun> the home anyway
[23:54] <valorie> anyway, feel free to blow away my 'improvements' -- it is better than it was
[23:54] <ahoneybun> going to tes t plasma media center soon
[23:54] <ahoneybun> installed it
[23:54] <valorie> cool
[23:54] <ahoneybun> get my notebook up to the tv and try it
[23:55] <valorie> jose: I need your gci task link to sign off on it
[23:55] <jose> sure, sec
[23:55] <ahoneybun> valorie: http://ubuntuone.com/1QjBspLYq2XeYmuD6Np4v5
[23:56] <valorie> as long as you promise to follow through with those broken images
[23:56] <valorie> ahoneybun: how do links work from webslice?
[23:56] <valorie> do they open up in the browser?
[23:57] <jose> valorie: http://www.google-melange.com/gci/task/view/google/gci2013/5012065370505216
[23:57] <valorie> it lookes excellent, btw
[23:57] <jose> on that branch, if you go through images/feature-tour/internet, they're there, as Kmail640.png and KDEtelepathy640.png
[23:58] <jose> I can claim the review for on the MP, did it that way as it'd keep the MP page
[23:58] <valorie> okeydoke jose, your task is completed
[23:58] <valorie> thank you
[23:58] <jose> cool, thanks to you! :)
[23:58] <valorie> pfff
[23:58] <jose> lemme poke IS right now to get it all fixed :)
[23:58] <juancarlospaco> wow that screenshot looks cool
[23:59] <soee> valorie: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQQ09IhcSo8
[23:59] <soee> this issue