[12:04] <Clint> lamont: I would have thought that with bash you'd be used to all kinds of problems. :)
[12:05] <lamont> Clint: feh
[12:06] <Clint> but seriously, zsh doesn't have that problem
[12:06] <lamont> no, it has it's own set.
[12:07] <Clint> hmm
[12:07] <lamont> on a different note...
[12:07] <lamont> wifely one wants an address label management program...  what's a good one, preferably from main?
[12:14] <jdub> lamont: glabels
[12:14] <jdub> not in main
[12:18] <lamont> jdub: thanks
[12:25] <lamont> jdub...  I want to give it an address book and print address labels from same...
[12:26] <jdub> i think glabels does that
[12:31] <lamont> very well may
[12:31] <lup|strebe> an app in C or python using pygtk
[12:32] <lup|strebe> does that make a big difference in the resources it will use
[12:32] <lup|strebe> and the speed
[12:34] <lamont> jdub: I can't seem to find a place to import an address book into glabels...
[12:46] <jdub> http://home.comcast.net/~plinius/fbui.html
[12:46] <jdub> boggle
[12:48] <lamont> jdub: thanks - figured it out... now to educate the wife...
[12:48] <lamont> can I get evo to export an addressbook in csv?
[12:50] <jdub> lamont: hrrmmm, dunno
[12:50] <srbaker> jdub, that's sickening.  but somehow cool
[12:54] <hornbeck> jdub, mdz: was a process ever decided about how to become a ubuntu maintainer?
[12:54] <lamont> jdub: sick but, um, interesting.
[12:54] <jdub> hornbeck: not yet, no
[01:00] <hornbeck> jdub: ok, thanks
[01:00] <jdub> 'coming soon'
[01:00] <hornbeck> good deal, I am interested
[01:01] <lup|strebe> jdub wouldn't it be a good idea to rewrite some of the default gnome apps in a higher programming language
[01:01] <lup|strebe> for example gftp in python
[01:01] <mjg59> Generally, rewriting software is a bad thing
[01:01] <lup|strebe> not rewriting I mean replacing it
[01:01] <lup|strebe> with a program that has the same functions
[01:01] <jdub> that means rewriting :)
[01:01] <mjg59> Would the application be any better as a result?
[01:01] <jdub> only subtly different
[01:01] <jdub> yeah, that's rewriting
[01:01] <jdub> only subtly different :)
[01:01] <lup|strebe> I think the code will be easier
[01:01] <jdub> lup|strebe: users won't care ;)
[01:01] <mjg59> So you end up writing something that behaves slightly differently, and so cause people to have to learn how to use it again
[01:04] <mjg59> In the process, you probably end up with about as many bugs as have already been fixed in the application you're reimplementing
[01:04] <mjg59> Sometimes, this is worth it - Sawfish needed a replacement writing because nobody could maintain it
[01:04] <mjg59> But there's no real shortage of people who understand C well enough to work on bugs in things like gftp
[01:04] <lup|strebe> gftp misses a lot of features I would expect from a ftp client
[01:04] <mjg59> That's an argument for improving gftp
[01:04] <lup|strebe> plus when you can use the default python modules for ftp, ssh, kerberos and proxy
[01:04] <mjg59> But, uh...
[01:04] <lup|strebe> you have a lot of less code to maintain so it becomes easier to add new stuff and improve stuff
[01:18] <lifeless> anyone here that knows dpkg pre-version number rules off-hand ?
[02:40] <mdz> lifeless: the version number comparison rules are documented in the policy manual
[02:44] <jdub> Intel 810 + AC97 Audio, version 1.01, 14:29:58 Oct 12 2004
[02:44] <jdub> ACPI: PCI interrupt 0000:00:06.0[A]  -> GSI 20 (level, high) -> IRQ 193
[02:44] <jdub> PCI: Setting latency timer of device 0000:00:06.0 to 64
[02:44] <jdub> i810: NVIDIA nForce Audio found at IO 0xd800 and 0xd400, MEM 0x0000 and 0x0000, IRQ 193
[02:44] <jdub>
[02:44] <jdub> does that ACPI line seem bong?
[02:44] <jdub> 193:        116   IO-APIC-level  ehci_hcd, NVIDIA nForce Audio
[02:44] <jdub> given that the alsa ones stopped working
[02:50] <justdave> mdz: assignment to amu on 3101 was a typo in the javascript dealing with the livecd stuff.  just fixed it
[02:50] <justdave> had an = where it should have had an ==
[02:50] <mdz> justdave: oh, thanks. I assumed the submitter had inadvertently typed something in the field
[02:52] <jdub> justdave: can we get the component popup to go away when pressing enter?
[02:53] <jdub> it is hard to enter 'linux' for example, given the number of linux... packages
[02:57] <jdub> mdz: the discover initscript stays with that upgrade]
[02:57] <mdz> jdub: the init script stays, but the links go away
[02:57] <mdz> jdub: it's a conffile and could have been customized; we can't throw it away
[02:57] <jdub> ahr
[02:58] <jdub> shouldn't matter on warty->hoary upgradew
[02:58] <mdz> the script was there in warty too
[02:58] <jdub> oh
[02:58] <jdub> just no links?
[02:58] <jdub> makes sense
[02:58] <mdz> right, same story
[02:58] <mdz> it's no longer part of the package in hoary
[02:59] <mdz> maybe we can even get rid of the package for hoary
[03:00] <mdz> fabbione: what do you say? :-)
[03:02] <jdub> heh
[03:10] <justdave> jdub: yeah, I can try
[03:11] <jdub> thanks
[03:16] <jdub> justdave: oh, status of advanced mail headers (like gnome's)?
[03:21] <lifeless> mdz: yes they are, but I know that ~ is supported by dpkg, and policy didn't mention it last I looked.
[03:23] <justdave> jdub: I thought you were talking about getting the product and component listed in the email (it does that now)
[03:23] <justdave> unless that's what you meant.  did you want extra headers, too?
[03:23] <jdub> justdave: gnome's bugzilla provides heaps more
[03:23] <jdub> X-Bugzilla-Product: metacity
[03:23] <jdub> X-Bugzilla-Component: general
[03:23] <jdub> X-Bugzilla-Status: NEW
[03:23] <jdub> X-Bugzilla-Priority: Normal
[03:23] <jdub> X-Bugzilla-Severity: enhancement
[03:23] <jdub> X-Bugzilla-Target-Milestone: future
[03:23] <jdub> X-Bugzilla-Reason: CC
[03:23] <jdub> X-Bugzilla-Version: unspecified
[03:23] <jdub>
[03:24] <justdave> ok, product, component, and reason can go in now, with just config changes.
[03:24] <justdave> the rest will take code (but not much)
[03:28] <jdub> sweet!
[03:28] <justdave> product/component are in.
[03:28] <justdave> I'll get the others on the next update I push
[03:28] <jdub> rocking, thanks
[03:28] <jdub> what do you think about universe as a separate component?
[03:28] <jdub> er
[03:28] <jdub> product
[03:36] <lifeless> mdz: and I just checked again. policy doesn't mention ~. lintian complains about ~, but dpkg knows about ~.
[03:37] <jdub> careful typing ~. there ;)
[03:38] <jdub> we should develop some spec that makes it very hard not to explain things starting with ~.
[03:38] <lifeless> ~. could be a problem, yes :)
[03:39] <jdub> if tom didn't like openssh he would've done that by now ;)
[03:39] <lifeless> lol
[03:41] <pasc> lol
[03:41] <lifeless> hey pasc.
[03:41] <pasc> hey lifeless
[03:42] <lifeless> hows moi paperwork ?
[03:42] <pasc> well I've just figured out something
[03:42] <lifeless> tried baz yet ?
[03:42] <justdave> universe as a product might be confusing...  since hoary could conceivably have stuff in main that's in universe in warty, etc.
[03:44] <pasc> lifeless: I haven't looked at what it doesn't differently to tla, so no... haven't tried it
[03:44] <pasc> however, in "http://lists.debian.org/debian-newmaint/2004/02/msg00010.html", tbm says elmo prints out reports to process them. I reckon that's the problem now. If you guys forced elmo to commute, he'd have time to read those reports again. ;-)
[03:45] <jdub> justdave: oh
[03:45] <jdub> justdave: good point
[03:45] <lifeless> pasc: its not a problem for me... until he's got the report!!!!
[03:45] <jdub> pasc: haha
[03:50] <lamont> cries, even
[04:01] <mdz> lifeless: that's exactly the state of ~ at the moment :-)
[04:01] <lifeless> mdz: ah. does aptitude handle it ?
[04:01] <mdz> lifeless: it's been implemented in the tools, but is not recognized by policy, and thus hasn't really been used or tested at all in the real world
[04:01] <mdz> lifeless: aptitude uses libapt, so yes
[04:01] <lifeless> cool. ok, I'm gonna use it :).
[04:01] <lifeless> for the auto-builds of baz
[04:02] <mdz> what if someone wants to package them for Debian? ;-)
[04:02] <lifeless> then they will have a different number anyway.
[04:02] <lifeless> (in point of fact, asuffield is already packaging baz)
[04:04] <jdub> lifeless: INTERESTING
[04:05] <lifeless> dunno if hes going to ITP and put it in the archive, but hes updating his build stuff, and was muttering about daily builds
[04:05] <lifeless> /home/robertc/irclogs/irssi-2004-10-29:16:10 #arch: < asuffield> dpkg-deb: building package `bazaar' in `../bazaar_1.1-1~20041029-1.canonical_i386.deb'.
[04:10] <mdz> lifeless: did you ask him why he hasn't updated tla in Debian?
[04:11] <lifeless> mdz: whats the current version in debian ? 1.2 or 1.2.1 ?
[04:11] <mdz> lifeless: 1.2
[04:11] <mdz> you filed an Ubuntu bug saying it was too old
[04:11] <lifeless> thats because 1.2.1 sucks in a couple of key ways, because tom /didn't release what jblack prepared/
[04:12] <lifeless> 1.2.2 would have fixed that, but some process difficulties cropped up leading to it not every going gold, and tom is now working on 1.3, planning a beta in a week or so.
[04:12] <lifeless> baz, right now, is >> tla 1.2.2 and >>>> tla 1.3
[04:18] <lifeless> bug #3103 - another missassigned to bazaar
[04:19] <lifeless> because I *care* about dell laptops
[04:33] <fabbione> morning guys
[04:33] <jdub> yo fabbione
[04:35] <lamont> (specifically that gnome build-depends on both :(
[04:35] <jdub> heh
[04:35] <fabbione> jo jdub
[04:35] <fabbione> jdub: we might have a showstopper for X.org
[04:36] <jdub> oh?
[04:36] <fabbione> i already involved upstream
[04:36] <fabbione> it's an API/ABI change in a library that has not been handled properly
[04:36] <fabbione> quite a bunch of packages depends / build-dep on it
[04:36] <jdub> xaw?
[04:36] <fabbione> no xrender
[04:37] <fabbione> xaw has a new version with new soname
[04:37] <fabbione> so now we will ship xaw6 7 and 8
[04:37] <fabbione> but Xrender is a bit of an issue
[04:37] <jdub> yeah
[04:38] <jdub> did it change in 6.8 or 6.8.1?
[04:38] <fabbione> jdub: 6.8.1 afaict
[04:39] <jdub> with lots of internal dependencies on the change?
[04:39] <fabbione> jdub: no it's a new implemented function
[04:39] <fabbione> but they didn't rename the lib
[04:39] <fabbione> nor bumped the soname
[04:40] <jdub> can we ignore that change?
[04:40] <fabbione> no
[04:40] <fabbione> X.org is a FTBFS without it
[04:40] <jdub> yeah, so there is an internal dependency :)
[04:40] <fabbione> jdub: X.org as monolithic tree has no problems.
[04:41] <fabbione> the issue is the releation to this library
[04:41] <fabbione> i hope that Keith P. will answer my bug asap
[04:41] <jdub> ok, why is there an FTBFS without it?
[04:41] <fabbione> jdub: it's complicate dependency to explain
[04:42] <fabbione> basically xrender is shipped outside the monolithic tree
[04:42] <fabbione> because Keith always released it outside
[04:42] <jdub> mmm
[04:42] <fabbione> the last release he did was 0.8.4
[04:42] <fabbione> and in the monolithic tree
[04:42] <fabbione> there is a differen 0.8.4
[04:44] <jdub> bong
[04:44] <jdub> bong bong bong
[04:44] <fabbione> jdub: so the problem for us is to do a xrender transition in a sane way
[04:45] <jdub> yeah
[04:45] <jdub> and xorg doesn't like keith's xrender, right?
[04:47] <fabbione> xrender is maintained by keithp, both inside and outside x.org
[04:47] <jdub> i know
[04:47] <fabbione> x.org doesn't like the external one
[04:47] <jdub> yes
[04:47] <jdub> ok
[04:48] <fabbione> if keithp doesn't come back to me soon i will have to handle it together with OVerfiend/Debian
[04:48] <fabbione> we can't break binary compatibility for these applications that use Xrender
[04:49] <jdub> yeah
[04:49] <jdub> have you checked how red hat's dealt with it in FC3?
[04:49] <fabbione> jdub: no
[04:49] <fabbione> because iirc they don't ship several packages
[04:50] <lamont> night all
[04:50] <fabbione> they have one big xorg rpm and that's it
[04:50] <fabbione> night lamont
[04:50] <jdub> fabbione: they still have the same problem
[04:50] <fabbione> not necessarely
[04:50] <fabbione> shipping the internal version and recompile *
[04:50] <fabbione> is like fixing it
[04:51] <fabbione> but not in the right way
[04:51] <jdub> yeah, but acceptable in non-enterprise-don't-rely-on-this fedora
[04:51] <jdub> grr ;)
[04:51] <fabbione> yeah
[04:56] <fabbione> today daniels should arrive too
[04:56] <fabbione> i can press him to fix it upstream :-)
[04:56] <jdub> ;)
[04:57] <fabbione> he will be my direct upstream bitch^Wlink ;)
[04:57] <fabbione> anyway other than this the situation looks good
[04:57] <jdub> you have unnatural control
[04:58] <fabbione> i know
[04:58] <fabbione> in a range between 0 and 10 you can consider me as an 11
[04:58] <fabbione> UHA UHA UHA
[06:19] <fabbione> does anybody remember where the .shlibs file format is described in details?
[06:32] <mdz> fabbione: isn't it in the policy manual?
[06:33] <fabbione> oh yeah
[06:37] <fabbione> later
[07:09] <hypa7ia> whoa someone awake
[07:09] <hypa7ia> :-)
[07:10] <jdub> there's almost always someone awake here
[07:10] <hypa7ia> whoot
[07:10] <hypa7ia> so i want to get involved in ubuntu, specifically with laptop support
[07:10] <hypa7ia> what would be a good first step (beyond ridding my machine of the foul pestilence that is fedora, of course)
[07:12] <jdub> identifying improvments that would help battery life
[07:12] <hypa7ia> si
[07:12] <jdub> turns out there's a bunch of patches to the kernel that help
[07:12] <jdub> which paul drain (ultrafunk) has been looking at
[07:12] <hypa7ia> kay, good to know
[07:13] <jdub> and there's something on the system causing regular disk accesses
[07:13] <jdub> which is not good for battery life
[07:13] <jdub> (and it's not just ext3)
[07:13] <jdub> hrm
[07:13] <jdub> maybe look at the hoary feature goals wiki page to see what you can help with
[07:14] <hypa7ia> coolcool
[07:14] <jdub> can't think of anything else off-hand
[07:14] <hypa7ia> reading the wiki page on warty laptop support ATM
[07:14] <hypa7ia> would you recommend upping to hoary right away, or playing with warty for a bit first?
[07:15] <jdub> depends on how familiar with debian you are
[07:16] <hypa7ia> i've been running sarge one one machine for 2 months.  was a mac os x user for 2 years before that
[07:16] <hypa7ia> so i'm a bit of a n00b
[07:16] <hypa7ia> but a very committed one :-)
[07:16] <jdub> hoary is going to be fairly rocky for a while
[07:16] <hypa7ia> *nods*
[07:16] <jdub> but it's pretty sane atm
[07:17] <hypa7ia> whoot.
[07:17] <hypa7ia> i think i'll wait a month then
[07:17] <hypa7ia> just in case.  being a noob and all.
[07:17] <hypa7ia> :-)
[07:18] <hypa7ia> i have all sorts of fun unsupported or marginal hardware too :-)
[07:18] <hypa7ia> and new stuff
[07:18] <hypa7ia> it's all very exciting :-)
[07:24] <jdub> elmo: ping
[07:25] <jdub> elmo: whenever you get up, please take a peek at warty-updates -> would like to avoid fifty seven million questions about where the november package is. i'll do this when you're around next time. :-)
[07:57] <doko> morning
[07:58] <mvo_> hi doko
[08:04] <doko> hi
[08:15] <netfighter> Quick question, do u guys know if the logo is licensed under the GFDL or GPL?
[08:16] <jdub> netfighter: it's not
[08:17] <jdub> netfighter: usage guidelines will be released soon
[08:17] <netfighter> oh thanks
[08:18] <pasc> jdub: and when are the t-shirts coming out?
[08:18] <pasc> ;-)
[08:19] <jdub> dunno, not sure why the competition hasn't been announced yet
[08:25] <doko> lamont: around?
[08:37] <pitti> Morning, guys!
[08:38] <pitti> mvo_: Welcome to the team!!!
[08:40] <mvo_> thanks pitti :-))
[09:08] <mvo_> can we mark bugs as "hoary only" in bugzilla?
[09:11] <pitti> mvo_: not really
[09:12] <pitti> mvo_: but as long as they are not critical, they are not fixed for Warty anyway
[09:12] <mvo_> pitti: thanks
[09:40] <lifeless> who would liek this bug ?
[09:40] <lifeless> https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=3103
[09:42] <daniels> lifeless: RESOLVED/INVALID
[09:42] <daniels> if your video card is that stupidly bong, not my fault
[09:42] <lifeless> daniels: its on the wrong product dude.
[09:42] <lifeless> its not a bazaar bug.
[09:43] <daniels> i'll take it
[09:56] <jdub> mvo_: target HoaryHedgehog
[09:56] <jdub> mvo_: if that's appropriate
[09:56] <mvo_> jdub: thanks
[09:56] <jdub> mvo_: but there's no distro version setting
[09:56] <thom> morning
[09:56] <mvo_> hi thom
[09:57] <daniels> thom: morning sunshine
[09:57] <Micksa> grah
[09:57] <thom> daniels: if i throw rocks at heathrow, might I hit you? :-)
[09:57] <Micksa> on what grounds was zwiki chosen as the site's wiki software?
[09:58] <daniels> thom: if you aimed for t4, yah
[09:58] <sparkes> hornbeck, are you around or is it past bedtime over there?
[09:59] <jdub> #3117 -> eeek!
[09:59] <sparkes> hornbeck, when you wake up drop me a line and I will sort out a new home for your blog
[10:07] <mvo_> can someone sponsor a new synaptic upload? packages are at: http://people.debian.org/~mvo/synaptic/warty/0.55/
[10:09] <thom> jdub: that's a fantastic bug
[10:10] <tuo2> Cockfosters?
[10:11] <Mithrandir> tuo2: the end station of one of the tram (or tube) lines in London.
[10:12] <tuo2> really? And there I was thinking it was just another name for that godawful beer.
[10:12] <tuo2> :
[10:12] <tuo2> )
[10:13] <Mithrandir> what beer?
[10:14] <thom> tuo2: well, Fosters is Cock, definitely
[10:14] <thom> but not the same thing :-)
[10:15] <tuo2> heh
[10:15] <tuo2> :)
[10:19] <pitti> mvo_: just back from breakfast; your key is not in the upload keyring yet?
[10:19] <mvo_> pitti: I don't think so, got no mail from elmo about it yet
[10:20] <pitti> mvo_: okay, I'll upload it
[10:22] <pitti> mvo_: your email address in the changelog is invalid
[10:22] <mvo_> pitti<EMAIL_ADDRESS>sorry
[10:23] <pitti> mvo_: did you already upload this into Debian?
[10:23] <mvo_> pitti: not yet, I will soon
[10:23] <pitti> mvo_: it has no Ubuntu specific version number, so it should rather be synced from Debian
[10:23] <mvo_> what's the policy about the version in this case?
[10:23] <pitti> mvo_: okay, please ask elmo to sync it when it is in sid
[10:24] <mvo_> pitti: ok
[10:25] <Keybuk> ubuntu-calendar (4.11) warty-updates; urgency=low
[10:25] <Keybuk> hmm...  so the only people who'll get a calendar update is those that have psychically guessed they need to add a new line to their sources.list? :o)
[10:49] <Keybuk> indeed, no.
[11:03] <Kyaneos> hi
[11:06] <Micksa> sho "official" develops zwiki? sm?
[11:06] <Micksa> s/sho/who/
[11:06] <Micksa> gah, my typing sucks today
[11:33] <jdub> jamesh: gnome-font-viewer seems to work from the command line, but not from fonts:///
[11:34] <jdub> jamesh: $ gnome-font-viewer "fonts:///Andale Mono"
[11:34] <jdub> ^ works
[11:34] <jdub> $ gnome-font-viewer "fonts:///Andale%20Mono"
[11:34] <jdub> works
[11:34] <jdub> $ gnome-font-viewer file:///home/jdub/.fonts/Andale_Mono.ttf
[11:34] <jdub> works
[11:34] <jdub> Couldn't display "fonts:///Andale%20Mono".
[11:34] <jdub> There was an error launching the application.
[11:35] <jdub> hrm
[11:35] <jdub> no applications selected in the properties dialogue
[11:35] <jdub> looks like we've missed a mime type
[11:35] <jdub> yeah
[11:36] <jamesh> I wonder if it was updated for the new mime stuff?
[11:36] <Keybuk> nothing in its .desktop
[11:36] <jdub> yeah
[11:37] <jdub> where's the .desktop?
[11:37] <jdub> which package?
[11:37] <jdub> oh, capplets-data
[11:38] <jdub> nono
[11:38] <jdub> there is no .desktop file
[11:38] <jdub> badness
[11:41] <doko> pitti: should gnupg be built with capabilities enabled in Ubuntu?
[11:42] <pitti> doko: no need for that any more
[11:42] <pitti> doko: gnupg does not need to be suid root any more
[11:42] <pitti> doko: kernel 2.6.8+ supports limited mlock() calls as user, which is sufficient for gnupg
[11:43] <doko> so your patches 15_free_caps and 16_min_priviliges aren't needed anymoer?
[11:43] <pitti> doko: not really.
[11:43] <pitti> doko: but I think the package cannot be synced from sid
[11:43] <pitti> doko: since sid still installs it as suid root
[11:44] <pitti> doko: (I assume you are at syncing gnupg ATM)
[11:44] <doko> yes, but that's the only patch I identified.
[11:57] <Kyaneos> hi
[12:07] <Kamion> daniels: progress ping on syslinux merge? I need it before I can upload the merged debian-installer
[12:08] <thom> Kamion: he's on a plane to .dk now i think
[12:08] <Kamion> maybe I should grab it ...
[12:08] <Kamion> ah well, still have a huge doc merge to do
[12:09] <Keybuk> syndicate scott# /usr/bin/time /etc/init.d/hotplug start >/dev/null
[12:09] <Keybuk> 12.47user 0.75system 0:14.34elapsed 92PU (0avgtext+0avgdata 0maxresident)k
[12:09] <Keybuk> 0inputs+0outputs (0major+137328minor)pagefaults 0swaps
[12:09] <Keybuk> syndicate scott# dpkg -i grepmap_0.1.0-1_i386.deb
[12:09] <Keybuk> Selecting previously deselected package grepmap.
[12:09] <Keybuk> (Reading database ... 140871 files and directories currently installed.)
[12:10] <Keybuk> Unpacking grepmap (from grepmap_0.1.0-1_i386.deb) ...
[12:10] <Keybuk> Setting up grepmap (0.1.0-1) ...
[12:10] <Keybuk> syndicate scott# /usr/bin/time /etc/init.d/hotplug start >/dev/null
[12:10] <Keybuk> 1.84user 0.56system 0:03.46elapsed 69PU (0avgtext+0avgdata 0maxresident)k
[12:10] <Keybuk> 0inputs+0outputs (0major+143197minor)pagefaults 0swaps
[12:10] <Keybuk> \o/
[12:10] <doko> mithrandir: I have some updates for the ia32-libs/ia32-oppenoffice.org packages. should I do upload before you start updating the packages?
[12:10] <Keybuk> 14.34s to 3.46s
[12:12] <sabdfl> Keybuk: yowser, what's the trick?
[12:12] <Keybuk> sabdfl: "grepmap" :)
[12:12] <sabdfl> which is?
[12:12] <Keybuk> wrote it over the weekend, C tool to parse the module map files
[12:12] <sabdfl> cool, hoary?
[12:12] <Keybuk> rather faster than doing it in shell
[12:13] <Keybuk> yaeh
[12:13] <sabdfl> rock
[12:13] <Mithrandir> doko: what kind of updates?
[12:13] <Keybuk> it's sitting in NEW at the moment, just testing some corner cases and I'll upload the patched hotplug that uses it
[12:14] <doko> mithrandir: see #1996
[12:15] <doko> any reason that glibc isn't synced from unstable and no merge report is open?
[12:15] <Keybuk> doko: Colin just synced that one
[12:16] <Keybuk> uh, Martin
[12:17] <Mithrandir> doko: oh, that one.. the lib32* libs are in universe, right?
[12:18] <doko> Mithrandir: yes. do you really need lib32stdc++5 ?
[12:19] <Mithrandir> doko: isn't it used by openoffice?
[12:21] <doko> then it should be included in ia32-libs/office-libs. I'll drop the biarch support from gcc-3.3.
[12:22] <Mithrandir> but it'll still be in gcc-3.4?
[12:23] <doko> sure, yes
[12:24] <Mithrandir> does openoffice build with gcc-3.4?
[12:24] <doko> kamion: grub needs to be compiled using gcc-3.4 on amd64. could you do this change with your resync upload?
[12:25] <doko> Mithrandir: apparently not: see #279185
[12:26] <Mithrandir> doko: ok, any ETA on a fix?
[12:26] <Mithrandir> doko: hmm, no, forget what I said
[12:26] <Mithrandir> doko: so, if ia32-libs-openoffice.org builds the libstdc++5, it should be fine?
[12:27] <Mithrandir> what does it pull from gcc-3.4 today?
[12:27] <doko> libgcc_s.so.1, which we will have be built from the gcc-3.4 sources
[12:28] <Mithrandir> why isnt't that part of the regular ia32-libs?
[12:29] <Mithrandir> or rather -- how are you proposing to solve this?
[12:32] <doko> not needed until now. yes, ia32-libs seems to be appropriate
[12:33] <daniels> Kamion: just sitting in the copenhagen baggage reclaim -- bear in mind I've been on a plane since god knows when :)
[12:33] <daniels> Kamion: i'll get to it today after I've checked in today as a priority
[12:34] <daniels> Kamion: sorry, it's just been a very long time since I've had real (read: non-nstx) access
[12:51] <jdub> Keybuk: ooh. hope elmo gets up and flushes NEW soon. :-)
[12:53] <Keybuk> heh. now to make the bloody alsa modules load faster :p
[12:54] <jdub> "would it help if i got out and pushed?"
[12:55] <Keybuk> I suspect it's just waiting for /sys to turn up so it can udev up
[12:55] <thom> jdub: oh, so you get to be the princess today?
[12:55] <pasc> does that mean we'll get the new desktop background?
[12:55] <jdub> pasc: yeah
[12:55] <jdub> pasc: and Keybuk's grepmap
[12:55] <Mithrandir> more pr0n?
[12:55] <jdub> Keybuk: why the new package, btw? (kind of generic name...)
[12:56] <pasc> what does grepmap do?
[12:56] <jdub> Mithrandir: pr0nnier pr0n, this time
[12:56] <elmo> yeah, the name sucks
[12:56] <Keybuk> jdub: well, it's arch-any and hotplug is arch-all
[12:56] <Keybuk> and it's a little more generic, so really deserved a separate source package
[12:56] <Keybuk> and then hotplug only needs to Recommend it, etc.
[12:56] <Mithrandir> pasc: I think it greps a map, not maps a grep
[12:56] <jdub> Keybuk: s/all/any/ in hotplug's control doesn't sound insane... :)
[12:57] <jdub> elmo!
[12:57] <Keybuk> jdub: minimum impact, dude
[12:57] <jdub> won't upstream+debian want it?
[12:58] <Keybuk> most likely
[12:59] <Kamion> doko: sure
[12:59] <Kamion> doko: just build-dep and CC?
[12:59] <Kamion> daniels: no problem, didn't realise you were travelling, feel free to punt it to me if things are too hectic
[01:02] <Keybuk> jdub: turning hotplug into arch-any would mean changing the .orig to include the new source, possibly in a subdirectory, changing the rules to compile, link and install C, etc.
[01:02] <Keybuk> kinda icky
[01:02] <jdub> yeah.
[01:02] <Keybuk> the only change is just an extra patch in debian/patches to use grepmap if it's installed
[01:07] <doko> kamion: yes, sent you a debdiff
[01:07] <Kamion> doko: ta
[01:09] <doko> elmo: please sync python-defaults subversion foomatic-db from unstable, mailman 2.1.5-3 from incoming
[01:12] <thom> elmo: please sync cpufreqd from unstable
[01:16] <elmo> doko, thom: done for the unstable ones
[01:16] <elmo> doko: you might need to remind me about mailman once it reaches a mirror
[01:18] <thom> elmo: thanks
[01:18] <elmo> jdub/keybuk: what's the verdict - shall i add grepmap as is ?
[01:19] <jdub> seems like a very generic name to me
[01:19] <jdub> but it might not survive very long in hoary if it is accepted upstream
[01:19] <Keybuk> it greps map files ... I couldn't think of a better one :o)
[01:20] <elmo> grepmodmap ?  I need file-preseed and network-preseed at least
[01:38] <elmo> Kamion: synced
[01:38] <elmo> I still haven't done the "sync new stuff, remove old stuff" for universe yet, meh
[01:38] <elmo> so for now, if there's something new you need, just pester me
[01:38] <thom> hmm, trying to build firefox and work on openoffice at the same time is way beyond painful
[01:39] <elmo> thom: try building openoffice on your sparc box...
[01:39] <thom> elmo: no thanks, the disks would cause earthquakes
[01:40] <thom> :-)
[01:40] <sivang> hahah
[01:41] <sivang> thom : how old is it?
[01:42] <Kamion> elmo: 'k, thanks
[01:42] <thom> 98?
[01:42] <thom> elmo: besides, i'm not sure i have enough space to build OO on the thing anyway ;/
[01:43] <Mithrandir> NFS mount from a server on the moon?
[01:43] <jdub> bandwidth to ISS is *rad*
[01:43] <sivang> jdub : what's ISS ?
[01:43] <Mithrandir> sivang: international space station
[01:44] <Mithrandir> the secret headquarter where we're all bobbing around in our space suits.
[01:44] <Mithrandir> oops, did I say that?
[01:44] <elmo> thom: openoffice.org:      1580568k (1635344k lastest)
[01:45] <thom>  /dev/sdb1             4.0G  2.2G  1.6G  58% /home
[01:45] <thom> so, uh, that might be a little tight :/
[02:03] <doko> elmo: please add/sync mpfr from unstable. the recent gmp in hoary depends on it.
[02:03] <jdub> wtf
[02:03] <elmo> I've just started syncing the 628 (!) new source packages
[02:03] <jdub> someone just posted to warty changes
[02:04] <jdub> hrm
[02:04] <jdub> hrrrm
[02:04] <jdub> crap
[02:05] <jdub> hey aes
[02:05] <aes> helloo
[02:05] <aes> how goes?
[02:05] <jdub> rockin', yourself?
[02:05] <aes> very busy, but good :)
[02:06] <lamont> doko: am now
[02:08] <doko> lamont: which kernel do you have on the ia64 box with the failing gnat tests?
[02:10] <lamont> 2.4.17-mckinley-smp
[02:13] <lamont> another build will run sometime today on 2.4.25-hpe-9-mckinley-smp, will advise
[02:15] <doko> hmm, merulo has 2.4.27 and I see the same behaviour. wondering which kernel the buildd runs.
[02:16] <lamont> caballero 2.4.25-dsa-mckinley-smp
[02:18] <robtaylor> lamont: hey, i'm just looking at the differneces between your ubuntu scripts-base and mainline..
[02:19] <robtaylor> lamont: i've integrated the simple stuff into my tree, but theres a whole load of work in grub-nonemu-2.6 which i dont quite understand - whats all that doing?
[02:20] <lamont> all the grub changes were changing splash screens
[02:21] <robtaylor> ah, and the removal of scripts-base/etc?
[02:21] <robtaylor> bla
[02:21] <robtaylor> scripts-base/etc/init.d/debian
[02:21] <robtaylor> scripts-base/etc/modutils
[02:21] <lamont> stuff removed/changed in the init.d scritps was because it broke things. :-)
[02:21] <lamont> and ISTR adding something
[02:21] <robtaylor> ISTR?
[02:22] <lamont> I seem to recall\
[02:22] <robtaylor> i seem to recall, ok ;)
[02:22] <robtaylor> lol
[02:22] <robtaylor> i think you moved modutils from etc to root, it seems
[02:22] <robtaylor> and added autologin?
[02:24] <robtaylor> diffing morphix-base-scripts_0.5-19ubuntu1 and mainline
[02:25] <lamont> 0.5-19, or something else?
[02:25] <robtaylor> 0.5-19
[02:26] <lamont> ok. that'd be my changes, then/
[02:26] <robtaylor> (well, 0.5-20, but ignoring what i know are the differences between -20 and -19 ;))
[02:27] <robtaylor> yep, i as as tehre seems to be a *lot* of work, and i'm trying to make sense of it all.. and you have very few changelog entries....
[02:27] <lamont>   * chmod 644 /usr/lib/locale/locale-archive
[02:27] <lamont>   * correct typo with homedir setup
[02:27] <T-Bone> lamont: quick question: do i want to feed quinn-diff with -p and a packages list or with -s and a sources list?
[02:27] <lamont> that's all I believe that I did.
[02:27] <lamont> T-Bone: -p Packages -s Sources
[02:27] <lamont> and then it does a diff.
[02:27] <robtaylor> lamont: yep, that explains 2 lines of the 24000 line diff..
[02:27] <T-Bone> lamont: i should pass it both? Cause you were only passing one file in the first place
[02:28] <lamont> robtaylor: that's not to say there weren't other changes introduced because of whatever...
[02:28] <lamont> T-Bone: the default is to grab both of them from ./
[02:29] <T-Bone> lamont: ok i'll use both. I'm getting very close to the end of stage2, fwiw. I have the same problems than first time: gcc and perl wont build, as well as a couple other packages
[02:29] <lamont> robtaylor: want me to send you my diff?
[02:30] <lamont> diff -ur t/morphix-base-scripts-0.5/ morphix-base-scripts-0.5/| wc
[02:30] <lamont>      56     258    2807
[02:30] <lamont> -       rm -r $(CURDIR)/debian/morphix-base-conf/etc/pcmcia
[02:30] <lamont> +       rm -rf $(CURDIR)/debian/morphix-base-conf/etc/pcmcia
[02:30] <lamont> -       chroot /mnt/main locale-gen &
[02:30] <lamont> +       chroot /mnt/main sh -c "locale-gen && chmod 644 /usr/lib/locale/locale-archive" &
[02:30] <lamont> -    rmdir -f /mnt/main/home/$USERNAME
[02:30] <lamont> +    rm -rf /mnt/main/home/$USERNAME
[02:30] <doko> somebody has a hoary powerpc chroot available for testing?
[02:30] <lamont> that's vs the version from www.morphix.org/debian
[02:31] <robtaylor> hmm
[02:31] <robtaylor> and that all you have?
[02:31] <robtaylor> very odd.
[02:31] <lamont> robtaylor: I thought it was a pretty comprehensive changelog... :-)
[02:32] <robtaylor> well in which case the rest must be source deb building differences, *phew*
[02:34] <mvo_> hi rburton
[02:34] <rburton> hi mvo_
[02:34] <T-Bone> lamont: i don't get it. if i pass both packages and sources, it compares and checks what's missing, that's it?
[02:35] <lamont> yes
[02:35] <T-Bone> ok
[02:35] <lamont> it says 'what sources are newer than the binaries I have'
[02:35] <T-Bone> then i have only 147 packages left, among which i presume a whole bunch are "expected failures"
[02:35] <lamont> and also remove ':partial' from the output, since those don't count either..
[02:35] <lamont> T-Bone: cool.
[02:36] <lamont> better than me, since it took me a while to figure out that cyrus-sasl2 is unbuildable right now.
[02:36] <T-Bone> hehe
[02:37] <T-Bone> suprisingly enough it wants me te rebuild glibc while i already have it built
[02:37] <lamont> does it say ':partial' off to the right?
[02:37] <T-Bone> lamont: i used:  quinn-diff -A ia64 -p build/chroot-warty/var/lib/apt/lists/envy_stage1_dists_warty_main_binary-ia64_Packages -s build/chroot-warty/var/lib/apt/lists/gandalf_dists_warty_main_source_Sources  | sed 's:^.*/\(.*\).dsc.*:\1:' > build_list_stage2.3
[02:38] <robtaylor> lamont: not convinced thats the upstream -19 that your comparing too..
[02:38] <T-Bone> greping partial in the resulting list gives no result
[02:38] <T-Bone> lamont: am i doing something wrong?
[02:40] <robtaylor> lamont: no i am convinced now =)
[02:41] <robtaylor> i'm going to go poke alexx
[02:42] <T-Bone> lamont: is that ok?
[02:43] <lamont> T-Bone: did you correctly create the Packages and Sources files in the repository? and did you apt-get update?
[02:43] <T-Bone> yes i did. Packages created using smashArchive, Sources created using your mirror script, version 1 :)
[02:43] <lamont> and do you find libc6.1 in the Packages file?
[02:44] <lamont> and is it the same version as the one that's going to get built?
[02:45] <T-Bone> Package: libc6.1
[02:45] <T-Bone> Source: glibc
[02:45] <T-Bone> Version: 2.3.2.ds1-13ubuntu2
[02:45] <T-Bone> and it wants to build: glibc_2.3.2.ds1-13ubuntu2
[02:46] <thom> fear, i 'ave ze pangoised firefox love
[02:47] <T-Bone> lamont: ain't that weird?
[02:49] <lamont> very strange
[02:50] <T-Bone> well i'll just remove glibc from the build list since it's one of the longest build
[02:51] <T-Bone> and hope that these are only positive diffs (ie, quinn-diff is only adding unnecessary things, not missing ones)
[02:52] <lamont> anything in sources that is missing binaries in packages goes in (some --> :partial)
[02:54] <T-Bone> ah, got it
[02:54] <T-Bone> removing the sed stuff: libs/glibc_2.3.2.ds1-13ubuntu2.dsc [required:partial]
[02:55] <T-Bone> you said partial should be ignored, why?
[03:03] <robtaylor> lamont: is it ok with you if i upstream your changes?
[03:04] <robtaylor> lamont: ah never mind, they're already upstream it seems
[03:08] <lamont> robtaylor: all of those changes should get pushed upstream.  alex knows about them, may have pulled all of them, or may not.
[03:11] <lamont> T-Bone: :partial means that some of the Binaries listed in the source package are missing.  duh.  we know that.  They won't get built if we do it over either...
[03:11] <T-Bone> ok, got that
[03:11] <lamont> :partial is the original reason that PaS was created
[03:11] <T-Bone> PaS?
[03:12] <lamont> Packages-arch-specific
[03:12] <T-Bone> huh!
[03:12] <lamont> the file that gets edited to tell the buildd's to not try a particular source package on a particular architecture.
[03:13] <T-Bone> i'm fetching all.deb packages into my stage1 rep
[03:17] <lamont> T-Bone: the reason I only had -p in what I gave you was because I fetched Sources and unziped in .
[03:18] <T-Bone> gah
[03:18] <T-Bone> ;-/
[03:20] <T-Bone> wow
[03:20] <T-Bone> grep -v partial and i'm down to 52 packages :)
[03:20] <T-Bone> i'll have to find a way to clean my stage1/2 rep so that it only has stage2 bins in it at some point, too
[03:22] <Micksa> hey, who knows zwiki well here? :)
[03:22] <Micksa> I think sm is the only real zwiki developer
[03:32] <Kamion> doko: um, grub in unstable already build-deps on gcc-3.4 on amd64?
[03:42] <mvo_> hi Mitario
[03:42] <Mitario> hey everyone
[03:44] <Mitario> mvo_, any idea on when to get the update stuff out for the public and upload it e.g. to hoary?
[03:44] <mvo_> Mitario: this week?
[03:44] <Mitario> fine by me
[03:44] <mvo_> I added dbus support into upgrade notifier, so that it will recheck for upgrades on changes from apt
[03:44] <Mitario> wow!
[03:44] <Mitario> cool
[03:45] <Mitario> apt is already dbussed?
[03:45] <mvo_> no, but easy to do with the shell dbus-send
[03:45] <Mitario> ah
[03:45] <mvo_> for now I use it send a signal after synaptic ran (or to be precise the new upgrade-app script that will call the correct app :)
[03:46] <Mitario> :)
[03:47] <Mitario> it's great if we bring it out this week
[03:47] <mvo_> that brings me to the upgrade-manager :) can we check it in somewhere?
[03:47] <Mitario> i could use gnome.org cvs, but i don't think i'm allowed too
[03:48] <Mitario> i could put it on cvs.luon.net, or my own server @ eyesopened.nl
[03:49] <doko> ohh, yes Robert Milan recently added this.
[03:49] <doko> kamion: ohh, yes Robert Milan recently added this.
[03:50] <Mitario> mvo_, are you an ubuntu maintainer atm?
[03:51] <Mitario> ah, yes ok, great :)
[03:51] <mvo_> Mitario: yes, but my account is not yet created, so I can't upload :)
[03:51] <Mitario> ah, ok bummer :p
[03:51] <Mitario> we'll have to get us sponsored then, i guess
[03:51] <mvo_> I think it will be ready in the next few days
[03:51] <mvo_> I have a synaptic update ready too
[03:53] <Mitario> ok, cool
[04:10] <Kyaneos> hi
[04:11] <Kyaneos> i have a problem with blender
[04:11] <Kyaneos> can nobody help me?
[04:11] <Kamion> elmo: I'm guessing file-preseed/network-preseed need NEWed?
[04:13] <lamont> elmo: please sync memtest86+
[04:19] <Kamion> elmo: please pull download-installer into hoary; it's from the net-retriever source
[04:24] <mjg59> Do you all have macros so you can just do /sync package and get elmo: please sync package?
[04:24] <mjg59> If not, why not?
[04:26] <Keybuk> $ sync memtest86+
[04:26] <Keybuk> opens a socket and sends PRIVMSG #ubuntu-devel :elmo: please sync memtest86+
[04:26] <Keybuk> ? :)
[04:27] <Keybuk> hmm, now I remembering discussions of an RPC-over-IRC protocol
[04:29] <daniels> Keybuk: /ctcp elmo SYNC memtest86+
[04:30] <tseng> hah nice.
[04:30] <Mithrandir> fabbione: you evil person
[04:30] <bob2> hahaha
[04:32] <Kyaneos> i have a problem with blender
[04:32] <Kyaneos> can nobody help me?
[04:36] <mjg59> fabbione: About time. Slacker.
[04:37] <lamont> warning: failed to load external entity "http://docbook.sourceforge.net/release/xsl/current/html/footnote.xsl"
[04:37] <lamont> hrm.. guess gtkmm2.0 shouldn't be trying to download pieces of itself during the build process, eh?
[04:37] <lamont> yet another bug to file
[04:37] <fabbione> mjg59: me? slaker? tsk :P
[04:37] <fabbione> lamont: we might need your help pretty soon
[04:38] <fabbione> lamont: we want to simulate an archive flush to rebuild hoary with x.org in place of xfree86
[04:38] <fabbione> lamont: do you think you can assist us with something simple?
[04:38] <fabbione> lamont: daniels already prepared from sbuild thingy
[04:38] <lamont> prepared from sbuild thingy??
[04:39] <fabbione> s/from/some
[04:39] <daniels> lamont: we have a (sort of hackish but not terribly bad) sbuild+wanna-build+etc setup
[04:39] <daniels> lamont: and want to simulate a scorched earth, but with xorg in place of xfree86
[04:39] <lamont> then what do you need me for?
[04:39] <fabbione> lamont: in case we get stocked somewhere?
[04:39] <lamont> note that you can't do a full rebuild of hoary right now - cyrus-sasl2 (and hence ldap and..........) FTBFS
[04:39] <fabbione> you are the buildd master here ;)
[04:40] <lamont> can help, sure.
[04:40] <fabbione> lamont: we can still start from warty
[04:40] <fabbione> that is already a good shot
[04:40] <lamont> yeah, pretty sure that warty can rebuild itself completely
[04:41] <elmo> kamion: they did, but I did them before lunch?
[04:42] <elmo> lamont: done
[04:42] <elmo> hmm, where the hell did the binaries go
[04:43] <daniels> lamont: is the wanna-build tree from cvs.linux-m68k.org the most current one?
[04:43] <daniels> (or elmo, I suppose, since you're the nominal maintainer in debian/control :P)
[04:43] <elmo> ah, someone broke katie
[04:43] <elmo> daniels: no, db.debian.org/debian-admin
[04:43] <elmo> kamion: done download-installer
[04:43] <daniels> elmo: cheers
[04:43] <daniels> elmo: you might want to update buildd.d.o at some stage (or whoever's responsible for that)
[04:44] <daniels> elmo: er, db.d.o/d-a just gives the regular db.d.o page
[04:45] <elmo> kamion: should prop through in ~10 mins
[04:45] <daniels> elmo: (not on cvs or f-m either, afaict)
[04:45] <elmo> daniels: grab a Packages or Sources and use exact URLs
[04:46] <daniels> elmo: oh, deb and deb-src
[04:46] <daniels> elmo: cheers
[04:51] <Kamion> elmo: ta
[04:53] <daniels> elmo: that source is missing wanna-build, fwiw (no w-b package for i386 in Packages.gz)
[05:02] <elmo> daniels: there's w-b for other platforms and it's mostly arch: all *shrug* and there's source
[05:04] <daniels> elmo: yah, built it by hand
[05:12] <lamont> elmo: you know gal2.2_2.2.3.orig.tar.gz is fail-to-fetch, yes?
[05:13] <lamont> jbailey: stupid libc question for you...
[05:13] <jbailey> lamont: Sure. =)
[05:14] <lamont> why does the current hoary glibc hang on ia64 in threads tests? :-(
[05:14] <jbailey> lamont: I haven't looked at hoary's glibc stuff at all - is it pretty much what we have in Debian sid?
[05:15] <jbailey> (The difference being that I have seen a thread hang a couple of times, unreproducable with some hardcore tests in Debian sid's snapshot.  I've not seen them with recent glibc CVS snapshots)
[05:16] <elmo> lamont: works for me ?
[05:18] <lamont> elmo: and md5sum matches, etc?
[05:18] <jbailey> Is your ia64 box on a 2.6 kernel?
[05:18] <lamont> jbailey: atm, 2.3.2-13ubuntu3 - need to see how 2.3.2-18ubuntu1 does
[05:19] <elmo> god damn it
[05:19] <elmo> lamont: there's nothing I can do about that, we'll have to do a 2.2.3us1 or something
[05:19] <lamont> ew!
[05:19] <elmo> lamont: warty has a different .orig.tar.gz to hoary/sid
[05:19] <elmo> we can't fix warty, so ...
[05:19] <lamont> WTH!?
[05:19] <enrico> Hello.   Are there any meeings scheduled in #ubuntu-meeting on thursday?  We'd like to make a docteam meeting and I'm checking so that we don't stomp on other people's toes
[05:19] <jbailey> lamont: I wouldn't expect -13 to -18 to have much difference for thread hangs.
[05:20] <lamont> jbailey: ah, ok. I'll track down exactly which test it is this time... amusingly enough, killing the test lets things finish...
[05:20] <lamont> istr only one test
[05:20] <lamont> otherwise, you timeout after 2.5 Hours
[05:20] <daniels> mdz: ping
[05:20] <jbailey> That sounds like the hang we used to have.  I haven't triggered it in a while, though.
[05:21] <lamont> elmo: I'll upload a new gal2.2 then.
[05:21] <lamont> jbailey: ok
[05:21] <lamont> elmo: sync chicken please
[05:22] <elmo> done
[05:22] <lamont> and closed. :)
[05:24] <Kamion> I think we need libelfg0 and libelfg0-dev in main
[05:24] <Kamion> ltrace depends on the former and build-depends on the latter
[05:29] <daniels> just after Keybuk ran away, too.
[05:34] <Kamion> daniels: so, syslinux, or shall I do it now?
[05:35] <daniels> Kamion: i'll take it
[05:39] <Kamion> lamont: hm, if I upload debian-installer before the last build-dep is ready, it won't cause extra work for you, will it?
[05:39] <daniels> GNAR!
[05:39] <daniels> lost the only version of my new thinkpad-x40-support package, which was by now rather generic.
[05:40] <lamont> Kamion: providing that it's not a virtual package that's missing, no, it shouldn't
[05:40] <lamont> elmo: please sync imlib2_1.1.0-12.4
[05:40] <lamont> (aka latest)
[05:40] <elmo> lamont: done
[05:41] <lamont> 2.2.3ubuntu1-1ubuntu1
[05:41] <lamont> hrm.. something wierd about that version number...
[05:42] <lamont> or should I call it 2.2.3ubuntu1-1?
[05:43] <fabbione> dpkg-deb: building package `xlibs-pic' in `../xlibs-pic_6.8.1-0.0_all.deb'.
[05:43] <fabbione> RAD
[05:44] <lamont> elmo: uploading gal2.2_2.2.3ubuntu1-1ubuntu1 in a minute or two...
[05:44] <pitti> lamont: WTF messed up _this_ version number?
[05:45] <pitti> fabbione: does it finally work? Congrats!
[05:45] <sivang> anybody knows what with the wiki?
[05:45] <fabbione> pitti: no it doesn't yet
[05:45] <lamont> pitti: 2.2.3 was uploaded to warty.  and later to debian.  and the orig.tar.gz's don't match.
[05:45] <sivang> it's down again
[05:45] <fabbione> pitti: we are just building the first set of debs
[05:45] <lamont> so we get to be a different _upstream_ version number too.
[05:46] <pitti> lamont: no chance to put the upstream changes into a debian diff?
[05:46] <elmo> aiee, it's fabbione with daniels-speak
[05:46] <sivang> http://www.ubuntulinux.org/ <[05:47] <lamont> sivang: rookery is happy, though..
[05:47] <elmo> sivang: no it's not?
[05:47] <pitti> sivang: works fine for me
[05:47] <sivang> elmo : oh, well maybe just for me.. strange..
[05:47] <mdz> daniels: pong
[05:48] <mdz> pitti: here?
[05:48] <sivang> came back now
[05:48] <pitti> mdz: yes, good morning!
[05:48] <mdz> pitti: you have an update to release, yes?
[05:48] <pitti> mdz: a couple of 'em :-)
[05:48] <pitti> mdz: I prepared advisories for groff and for xpdf/cupsys/tetex-bin
[05:49] <mdz> xpdf and tetex-bin are built
[05:49] <pitti> mdz: I put the latter ones into one advisory because it has a common cause
[05:49] <mdz> groff and cupsys are missing amd64
[05:49] <mdz> lamont: ?
[05:49] <pitti> hmm
[05:49] <lamont> pitti: problem is that we want debian's orig.tar.gz, and changing to that would require that we change warty, which is a no-no
[05:49] <lamont> mdz: yo
[05:49] <pitti> lamont: I understand
[05:50] <pitti> lamont: I uploaded some security updates today, but groff and cupsys did not build on amd64 yet
[05:50] <lamont> pitti: my only indecision is whether to call it 2.2.3ubuntu1-1 or 2.2.3ubuntu1-1ubuntu1
[05:50] <elmo> lamont: king isn't uploading right
[05:50] <pitti> lamont: I'd favor the first :-)
[05:50] <mdz> lamont: cupsys and groff security builds on amd64?
[05:51] <pitti> mdz: BTW, is there any chance I could verify such things on my own? I. e. read access to the build queue?
[05:51] <lamont> elmo: will check
[05:51] <lamont> pitti: build results go to security@ for -security uploads
[05:51] <pitti> mdz: BTW, https://chinstrap.warthogs.hbd.com/~pitti/ has the interdiffs and advisories
[05:52] <pitti> lamont: odd, I thought I received<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[05:52] <pitti> lamont: but obviously I don't
[05:52] <pitti> lamont: security@ meaning<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[05:52] <pitti> mdz: did you get these mails to<EMAIL_ADDRESS>I don't
[05:53] <lamont> elmo: cron restarted on king
[05:53] <mdz> pitti: I have never received mail from an ubuntu security build, no
[05:53] <pitti> lamont: ^
[05:53] <lamont> you only get failure emails.  these were both successes
[05:54] <lamont> cron wasn't launching johbs
[05:56] <elmo> lamont: doh
[05:56] <|trey|> quick q I thought I would ask here... bad to mix hoary universe + multiverse with warty main + restricted? (mainly saying cuz mplayer is in hoary multiverse)
[05:56] <|trey|> (don't want to ask in help channel due to them getting the idea anyways...)
[05:57] <lamont> |trey|: "bad" is a relative thing...
[05:57] <Kamion> |trey|: may work sometimes, not likely to stay working
[05:57] <lamont> I don't _think_ mplayer drags anything in right now, but who knows..
[05:58] <Kamion> Uploading via ftp debian-installer_20041027ubuntu1_source.changes: done.
[05:58] <lamont> gal uploaded
[05:58] <|trey|> recommend in help for people that want to watch movies: yes/no?
[05:59] <Kamion> unwise to recommend that they add the whole line to sources.list
[05:59] <Kamion> retrieving individual .debs and installing with dpkg -i may work
[05:59] <lamont> |trey|: or grab the hoary source and build it on warty...
[05:59] <|trey|> Kamion, k... yeah, that sounds safest... like lamont said, its has no deps that I know of... so yeah  :)
[06:00] <lamont> |trey|: known to build on warty, but that got done after the release, and doesn't meet criteria for warty-updates
[06:00] <lamont> |trey|: so find a security bug in it, and we'll have an excuse to upload to warty-security. :)
[06:01] <elmo> is anyone else having problems with a jabber.org account?
[06:01] <lamont> elmo: yep
[06:01] <sabdfl> elmo: check
[06:01] <elmo> ok, cool
[06:01] <lamont> elmo: that's why I'm bugging you _here_. :-)
[06:01] <elmo> (well not.. but at least it's not just me, YKWIM)
[06:02] <lamont> yeah
[06:03] <lamont> gal2.2 uploaded
[06:03] <lamont> Kamion: about miscfiles.......
[06:04] <Kamion> lamont: what does the current version in unstable have?
[06:05] <Kamion> lamont: if it still has Depends: fileutils, the change needs to stay
[06:05] <lamont> Depends: coreutils
[06:06] <lamont> ah, was fileutils.  has changed in debian to coreutils.
[06:06] <lamont> doh.
[06:06] <lamont> elmo: please sync miscfiles
[06:06] <pitti> lamont: are the amd64 packages in the queue now?
[06:06] <lamont> pitti: uploaded
[06:07] <pitti> lamont: thanks
[06:07] <pitti> mdz: should be there now
[06:07] <lamont> upload didn't happen was where the breakage was.
[06:07] <mdz> pitti: yes, everything is there
[06:07] <elmo> lamont: done
[06:08] <T-Bone> gah, damned courrier, cursing my build
[06:08] <mdz> elmo: do you have a moment to set up pitti with access and rights to run amber?
[06:10] <elmo> mdz: meh, done
[06:10] <pitti> mdz: could you give me the right to approve mails to u-s-a as well?
[06:10] <T-Bone> lamont: seems that the culprit is emacs
[06:11] <daniels> lamont: ping
[06:11] <mdz> pitti: I think the list can have only one moderator, let me see
[06:11] <lamont> daniels: yo
[06:11] <mdz> elmo: do you have any written instructions for amber?
[06:11] <lamont> T-Bone: culprit?
[06:11] <lamont> dir.gz?
[06:11] <T-Bone> no
[06:11] <pitti> mdz: usually you have one administrator and several moderators
[06:11] <T-Bone> stuck build
[06:11] <T-Bone> on courrier test
[06:11] <T-Bone> i can't figure out which package cause that
[06:11] <lamont> kewl
[06:12] <lamont> daniels: 60 second warning...
[06:12] <daniels> lamont: can you please review the syslinux merge?
[06:12] <pitti> mdz: oh, it seems that was not totally right; there can be several admins/moderators, but only one password, I think
[06:13] <daniels> lamont: about to put it up on fooishbar
[06:13] <elmo> mdz: err, beyond the obvious and --help?  no
[06:13] <cenerentola> sorry i cant use the printer wizard...
[06:13] <cenerentola> it doesnt recognize the printer: HP 710C
[06:13] <T-Bone> lamont: yeah it's definitely emacs
[06:13] <elmo> pitti: cd /srv/ftp.no-name-yet.com/queue/accepted/; amber 18-1 mawk_*.changes
[06:13] <pitti> elmo: rookery?
[06:14] <elmo> pitti: add '-n' to the end for no-action/dry run.. run 'helena' to get a (not ideal) list of what's waiting for you
[06:14] <cenerentola> lamont: can you help?
[06:14] <elmo> pitti: no, jackass
[06:14] <mdz> pitti: if you need to make multiple uploads, make sure that you amber them all, even if they're erroneous
[06:14] <mdz> pitti: this will cause the extra packages to be listed in the advisory template (unless elmo fixed that), but they shouldn't be left in the queue
[06:14] <elmo> yeah, that too
[06:15] <mdz> that was a bigger deal in Debian, where we had to worry about the .orig all the time
[06:15] <mdz> there are actually a lot fewer gotchas in ubuntu, I guess
[06:15] <pitti> okay, thanks
[06:15] <pitti> elmo: when I run "helena", I get a python exception with "_pg.error: FATAL:  user "pitti" does not exist"
[06:16] <daniels> ehm
[06:16] <daniels> mdz: how do I version 2.11-0.1 for ubuntu?
[06:16] <mdz> pitti: you're going to document all of this, right?
[06:16] <elmo> pitti: meh, details
[06:16] <mdz> daniels: 2.11-0ubuntu1
[06:16] <elmo> pitti: fixed
[06:16] <pitti> mdz: you mean in the advisory?
[06:17] <mdz> pitti: I mean the procedures for security
[06:17] <mdz> pitti: how to use the tools, etc. it should be documented
[06:17] <daniels> mdz: which is > 2.11-0.2?
[06:17] <pitti> mdz: Oh, I make notes :-)
[06:17] <mdz> pitti: also, one caveat regarding the mailing list
[06:17] <elmo> god I hate bash's history handling so much
[06:19] <T-Bone> lamont: looks like i'll be ready to test stage2 chroot anytime soon, the remaining non-built package being less than necessary (abiword and co)
[06:19] <pitti> elmo: you really mean amber 13-1 groff*.changes -n  (i. e. -n as the very last word)?
[06:19] <pitti> elmo: or amber 13-1 -n groff*.changes?
[06:19] <elmo> pitti: either works
[06:20] <elmo> pitti: the important thing is that the advisory number is first - due to a bug, amber insists on that (even if '-n' is the first thing)
[06:20] <Kamion> mdz: did you hear of a way to do ?action=raw in zwiki? I added it to WikiWishlist just in case ...
[06:20] <mdz> Kamion: no, I haven't
[06:20] <elmo> oh, wow, I'm so glad I didn't add that global redirect now..
[06:21] <mdz> elmo: you need to put some zsh in your pipe and smoke it
[06:21] <elmo> mdz: I use it at home, I just haven't gotten round to migrating my remote accounts
[06:22] <mdz> elmo: speaking of which, can you set my preferred shell in userdir-ldap to zsh?
[06:22] <fabbione> elmo: please i need rman installed on yellow and adare chroots
[06:22] <fabbione> elmo: i need to do a test build for X.org
[06:22] <elmo> eek, the buildd stuff doesn't prioritize it's builds
[06:22] <elmo> SUCKage
[06:23] <elmo> fabbione: eh, adare doesn't even have a hoary chroot yet - or are you happy with warty?
[06:23] <doko> elmo: yellow has i386-hoary only, not amd64
[06:24] <fabbione> elmo: warty please
[06:24] <fabbione> elmo: i don't need hoary yet
[06:24] <fabbione> elmo: sorry i wasn't clear
[06:24] <elmo> doko: oh, sweet.. I forgot yellow had an i386 base.  rock on
[06:25] <elmo> doko: btw, has mdz talked to you about de-kdelib-ing gcc-3.4
[06:25] <elmo> fabbione: done - just freshening the chroots while I'm herte
[06:26] <mdz> I don't think I have, but now is as good a time as any
[06:26] <mdz> doko: you have a merge to do with gcc-3.4 anyway; you could do that at the same time
[06:26] <fabbione> elmo: thanks a lot!
[06:26] <elmo> aiee
[06:27] <mdz> pitti: I have added you as a moderator for u-s-a
[06:27] <mdz> pitti: one thing you need to be aware of
[06:27] <mdz> pitti: there are many broken mailers in the world
[06:27] <mdz> pitti: something which happens constantly is that copies of the advisory get fed back to the list itself
[06:27] <mdz> pitti: so be careful to only approve the one that you sent, and discard the rest
[06:27] <doko> mdz: do what with kdelib? it's built with 3.4?
[06:28] <elmo> doko: not build-depend on it :)
[06:28] <mdz> doko: remove the build-dependency on kdelibs
[06:28] <pitti> mdz: I already cursed at the millions of autoamted replies I got...
[06:28] <doko> ok
[06:28] <mdz> pitti: yes, I have a blacklist for that if you want it ;-)
[06:28] <pitti> mdz: nice :-) procmail based?
[06:28] <doko> could I have access to a powerpc hoary box for a gcc test build?
[06:28] <mdz> pitti: yes
[06:28] <mdz> over the years I have collected them from bogus bugtraq bounces
[06:28] <pitti> mdz: I would kill for it :-)
[06:29] <pitti> mdz: well, at least I would say "thank you" :-)
[06:29] <elmo> fabbione: all done
[06:29] <elmo> doko: I'll create a hoary chroot on adare
[06:29] <elmo> this one will actually be hoary too ;-)
[06:29] <fabbione> elmo: thanks!
[06:29] <doko> elmo: thanks
[06:30] <daniels> lamont: http://fooishbar.org/daniel/syslinux/ -- it was reasonably complex and stuff has changed, so review would be nice
[06:30] <daniels> Kamion: ^^
[06:30] <elmo> lamont: buildd will take 10 packages, 9 universe one main, and not build the main one first - if you get a chance, and it's easy, might be nice to fix that
[06:31] <Kamion> daniels: 0.1ubuntu1 would be a better version number
[06:31] <Kamion> daniels: that way it isn't greater than any -0.2 that might happen to be uploaded to Debian
[06:33] <daniels> Kamion: *shrug* ask mdz
[06:34] <mdz> 0.1ubuntu1, 0ubuntu1, whatever
[06:34] <mdz> it's all hypothetical in the extreme
[06:34] <daniels> changed
[06:35] <pitti> mdz, elmo: ambering worked fine, thanks for the introduction and setup
[06:35] <pitti> mdz: I think we need to agree on an ML admin password, right?
[06:35] <Kamion> mdz: hypothetical?
[06:35] <pitti> mdz: I sent oht the advisories, but I have to approve them
[06:35] <Kamion> -0.2 for syslinux is quite likely
[06:35] <Kamion> given that the maintainer's fairly inactive
[06:35] <elmo> # UNCONFIGURED FSTAB FOR BASE SYSTEM
[06:35] <mdz> pitti: I am just extremely paranoid about amber because there were a lot of things to worry about in Debian, but it's much simpler here
[06:36] <elmo> always an encouraging thing to find at the top of an /etc/fstab of a production machine
[06:36] <Kamion> elmo: somebody just ran debootstrap and didn't finish the job, it seems ...
[06:36] <elmo> kamion: that's the root fs
[06:36] <pitti> mdz: the only gotcha that I found was that the presence or absence of '-n' does not really seem to make a difference
[06:36] <lamont> elmo: part of the whole 3 unequal but together suites mess I need to address.  But thanks - hadn't gotten that one yet.
[06:36] <elmo> pitti: ??
[06:37] <pitti> mdz, elmo: I used -n for groff, but the packages were installed anyway and I also got the template mail
[06:37] <mdz> pitti: I meant primarily with the uploads themselves.  in Debian, security was an entirely separate katie instance, so you had to remember to handle the .orig correctly, and there were no safeguards to ensure the version numbers were sane
[06:37] <elmo> dude, that's like so not possible
[06:37] <mdz> (relative to the main archive)
[06:37] <mdz> pitti: cut and paste the command line?
[06:37] <T-Bone> lamont: see ya
[06:38] <pitti> mdz: oh, right. As far as I can see, security.u.o and archive.u.o are more or less the same, right?
[06:38] <Kamion> daniels: in fact, 0ubuntu1 < 0.1, so definitely wrong :)
[06:38] <Kamion> daniels: with version 2.11-0.1ubuntu1, the diff looks otherwise fine to me
[06:38] <elmo> pitti: no, archive.u.c is one machine, security.u.o is two
[06:38] <elmo> they should appear the same tho, so the fact that you think they are is good ;-)
[06:39] <pitti> mdz, elmo: oh, I looked again in bash history, I typed the groff command twice, second one without -n. Alright then, sorry.
[06:39] <daniels> Kamion: cheers
[06:39] <pitti> mdz: can you send me an encrypted mail with the u-s-a moderator password?
[06:40] <mdz> pitti: is it possible to set a moderator password separate from the administrator password?
[06:40] <mdz> I think what I have is the admin password
[06:40] <pitti> mdz: I only found the list of admin/mod email addresses
[06:41] <pitti> mdz: when I go to .../admindb/u-s-a, it only asks for a password, and not for a kind of login
[06:41] <pitti> mdz: I already tried the password for ubuntu-de
[06:41] <pitti> @ALL: ANY MAILMAN GURU HERE?
[06:43] <pitti> mdz: I found it
[06:43] <pitti> mdz: on the main admin page, second menu point is "Passwords"
[06:43] <pitti> mdz: there you can set a moderator password
[06:44] <mdz> pitti: ok, send a signed&encrypted email with the password you would like
[06:44] <pitti> mdz: it's still only one password for all moderators, but better than nothing
[06:44] <mdz> pitti: or I can make a random one and send it to you
[06:44] <pitti> mdz: I'll mail you
[06:47] <pitti> mdz: sent; we really need to sign our keys at es-conf
[06:47] <mdz> mvo_: welcome aboard! :-)
[06:47] <mvo_> thanks mdz  :)
[06:48] <mvo_> I already have a bunch of questions for you :)
[06:48] <mdz> elmo: can you take care of mvo as far as accounts and keys?
[06:49] <mvo_> mdz: elmo did already, I got my account today
[06:49] <mvo_> but I haven't tried to log-in yet :)
[06:49] <mdz> ah, great
[06:49] <elmo> mdz: :-P
[06:50] <mdz> pitti: moderator password set
[06:50] <pitti> mdz: works,thanks
[06:51] <Kamion> sorry, circuit breaker tripped
[06:55] <doko> mdz, elmo: I'm lost. which kdelibs version has a gcc-3.4 build-dep?
[06:55] <Kamion> You don't have permission to access /~lamont/buildLogs/byDate/today.html on this server.
[06:55] <elmo> doko: nono, gcc-3.4 b-ds on kdelibs
[06:55] <elmo> or, more precisely, kdebindings
[06:56] <daniels> elmo: ?!?!?!
[06:56] <Kamion> lamont: ^--
[06:56] <Kamion> for AWT presumably
[06:59] <elmo> err.. hang on
[07:00] <elmo> apparently my germinate output parsing powers have waned
[07:00] <elmo> doko: sorry, it's not your problem at all
[07:00] <elmo> it's actually.. ?! debconf which is pulling in kdelibs
[07:01] <elmo> libqt-perl                                 | libqt-perl                       | debconf (Build-Depend)
[07:01] <elmo> libsmokeqt-dev                                    | kdebindings                  | libqt-perl (Build-Depend)
[07:01] <doko> ok, I didn't any dependency there as well. good to know I'm not halluscianting
[07:01] <elmo> kdelibs4-dev                               | kdelibs                          | kdebindings (Build-Depend)
[07:03] <mdz> ICK
[07:04] <Keybuk> "Guns don't kill people, Germinate does" ?
[07:07] <daniels> elmo: yeah, that makes sense
[07:08] <elmo> not for us :P
[07:08] <elmo> shall I file a bug on debconf ?
[07:08] <daniels> yah, asking to disable the qt frontend
[07:09] <mdz> why does it build-dep on it anyway?
[07:09] <mdz> it only Suggests it at runtime
[07:10] <mdz> elmo: yes, please
[07:10] <elmo> mdz: eh? it still has to b-d on it, to be able to suggest it
[07:10] <elmo> or at least build with it to suggest it
[07:12] <mdz> elmo: wha? it's perl
[07:13] <mdz> seb128: are you fixing this libgroupwise/e-d-s conflict?
[07:13] <Kamion> mdz: moc/uic
[07:14] <Kamion> mdz: the Qt interface is generated at build-time
[07:14] <Kamion> puic, rather
[07:14] <elmo> mdz: with a .so ?
[07:14] <elmo> in fact, a proper shared library even
[07:14] <seb128> mdz: there is a conflict ?
[07:14] <mdz> seb128: dpkg: error processing /var/cache/apt/archives/libecal6_1.0.2-2ubuntu1_i386.deb (--unpack):
[07:14] <mdz>  trying to overwrite `/usr/lib/libecal.so.6.2.1', which is also in package evolution-data-server
[07:14] <seb128> hum, ok
[07:14] <mdz> seb128: several of them
[07:15] <mdz> dpkg: error processing /var/cache/apt/archives/libegroupwise6_1.0.2-2ubuntu1_i386.deb (--unpack):
[07:15] <mdz>  trying to overwrite `/usr/lib/libegroupwise.so.6.0.0', which is also in package evolution-data-server
[07:15] <mdz> evolution-data-server conflicts with about 5 packages now
[07:16] <mdz> er
[07:16] <mdz> someone just sent a problem report to warty-changes
[07:17] <elmo> mdz: jdub saw it and tightened the list down
[07:17] <pitti> elmo: what's a working and prefered email for the Ubuntu security team<EMAIL_ADDRESS>or<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[07:18] <elmo> pitti: the former, the latter no longer exists
[07:18] <pitti> elmo: thanks; the latter could be nice for Debian compatibility, though
[07:18] <elmo><EMAIL_ADDRESS>or<EMAIL_ADDRESS>bother work)
[07:19] <elmo> pitti: mdz
[07:19] <elmo> mdz: pitti
[07:19] <elmo> ;)
[07:20] <mdz> pitti: security@ is used by everyone else in the world :-)
[07:20] <pitti> right
[07:30] <mdz> amu, lamont : so we can build live CDs in a chroot now?
[07:31] <amu> mdz: no, just workng on it, you follow my daily reports ?
[07:31] <mdz> amu: yes, I inferred that from your report
[07:31] <amu> mdz: guess some more day's and i get it working
[07:32] <mdz> * run serval tests building the iso in a chroot
[07:32] <mdz> amu: that seemed to indicate that it was working
[07:32] <amu> mdz: he problem is, the mmaker/isomaker has 0 debug option
[07:32] <amu> s/he/the
[07:34] <amu> i got it now on this, i have all modules unter /tmp ... i dont know why, some packages arnt installed, rewiting code now that every fucking comannd is beeing logged :)
[07:37] <amu> mdz: the bootspash isnt added to the miniroot, and at the final iso-tree grub+themes are missing. i cannot find it out why, so I need debug options on the code.
[07:56] <fabbione> lamont: at what time do the buildd's pick up stuff from the archive?
[08:01] <Kamion> jdub: 19:00 < joeyh> Kamion: give jdub some props from me, FWIW he correctly decided about whether preseeding was safe for warty..
[08:02] <Kosai> Kamion: Hiya.  Power cut?  :)
[08:03] <Kamion> Kosai: kinda, circuit breaker tripped apparently due to the radio being plugged in in the kitchen (!)
[08:03] <Kosai> Huh.
[08:04] <pitti> mdz, doko: I fleshed out http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/SecurityUpdateProcedures. I would appreciate some proofreading :-)
[08:07] <lamont> Kamion: you want to write the livecd vs install CD blurb, or shall I?
[08:08] <Kamion> don't mind really. if you're at a loose end ... :)
[08:08] <lamont> one more either way doesn't much matter...
[08:08] <Kamion> heh
[08:08] <Kamion> ok, I'll put it on my todo
[08:09] <daniels> Kamion: if you want to take syslinux and upload it, that would be nice
[08:09] <daniels> Kamion: waiting for my shiny new ssh key to propagate (sigh)
[08:10] <daniels> Kamion: otoh, if it's not a blocker for your work, i'll take care of it (probably on the other side of sleep by the time the key's out though, i'm crashing raipidly)
[08:10] <lamont> Kamion/vorlon: fwiw, taking postgresql-dev into sarge makes cyrus-sasl2 unbuildable. :-(   See 279158
[08:11] <daniels> lamont: could you please give back xrender 0.9.0-0ubuntu1 when render 0.9-0ubuntu1 is in?
[08:11] <daniels> lamont: (forgot to tighten up b-ds)
[08:13] <mdz> pitti: I made some adjustments, looks pretty good
[08:13] <mdz> pitti: we will need a separate process for coordinated disclosure
[08:13] <pitti> mdz: so far I do not know much about this anyway
[08:14] <desp> cough
[08:14] <desp> mdz: :)
[08:14] <mdz> ?
[08:14] <desp> mdz: I have ubuntu working on my oldworld
[08:15] <mdz> desp: great, do you have some patches for us?
[08:15] <mdz> what was the cause of the problem?
[08:15] <pitti> mdz: did you made any serious changes (apart from typos)? I can't spot them :-)
[08:15] <mdz> pitti: shift+reload, it's probably cached
[08:15] <mdz> pitti: you can also read the history
[08:16] <desp> the cause of the problem was that the generated initrd was left on the ext3 partition, and the BootX bootloader used on oldworld needed it on the Mac OS HFS partition
[08:16] <desp> so this is really not an issue, because the most difficult thing to do is getting the actual initrd file across the ext3/hfs barrier
[08:17] <desp> this is actually pretty hard, since there is no support for ext3 on Mac OS 9, and having booted from the ubuntu install CD, one can't mount a hfs partition.
[08:17] <pitti> mdz: a "debdiff" is a different thing for me than an "interdiff". debdiff checking is good, but it does not really help to concisely see code changes; I prefer an interdiff for this
[08:18] <mdz> it should be possible to use the live CD
[08:18] <mdz> pitti: er..have you used debdiff? :-)
[08:18] <pitti> mdz: yes
[08:18] <mdz> pitti: it does what interdiff does, plus more
[08:18] <pitti> mdz: so far I only used it with deb packages, though
[08:18] <mdz> pitti: you can run debdiff on two .dsc files
[08:18] <lamont> daniels: it does that sort of give-back automatically... (it's called 'dep-wait'...)
[08:20] <pitti> mdz: ah, I did not know that, thanks. I always used interdiff for this.
[08:20] <mdz> pitti: maybe it is worth more explanation in the wiki page, then
[08:20] <pitti> mdz: I add the "two .dsc files"
[08:21] <mdz> mvo_: will you be uploading a new synaptic today?
[08:21] <pitti> mdz: BTW, doko prepared an update for libarchive-zip-perl, did you see this?
[08:21] <mdz> pitti: he sent the email to me, CCing you
[08:21] <pitti> mdz: shall I check and handle this?
[08:22] <desp> I'll be going, then. see ya
[08:23] <T-Bone> lamont: i have a few remaining FTBS packages that fail for stupid reasons, such as subversion dying because it doesn't like the current locale during install :P
[08:24] <T-Bone> i'm left with 47 packages, tho
[08:25] <lamont> T-Bone: sounds like you're ready to move on to d-i then, ey?
[08:26] <T-Bone> lamont: sounds like, yeah :)
[08:26] <sjoerd> seb128, pitti: the new debian g-v-m should fix the crash on dbus restart, that people have been seeing
[08:26] <pitti> sjoerd: nice, thanks
[08:26] <T-Bone> lamont: if you wanna give a look at the remaining failures: http://envy.esiee.fr/~varenet/not_successful
[08:26] <pitti> sjoerd: I'll do an upload soon
[08:26] <T-Bone> lamont: i'll have to find a way to purge the chroot from pre-stage2 binaries too
[08:27] <pitti> doko: there is no CVE/CAN number for the perl zip vulnerability?
[08:27] <seb128> sjoerd: ok, cool
[08:28] <Kamion> daniels: ok, may have a look after karate tonight
[08:28] <doko> no, haven't seen one, only the references found at http://lwn.net/Articles/108926/
[08:29] <pitti> doko: I don't have access to yellow, is the package on chinstrap still valid?
[08:30] <doko> did I write yellow? I meant chinstrap.
[08:30] <pitti> mdz: do you agree to upload this libarchive-zip-perl update?
[08:33] <Kamion> T-Bone: guess I should upload linux-kernel-di-ia64-2.6 soon
[08:34] <T-Bone> Kamion: that'd be cool :)
[08:34] <Kamion> not that hoary's installer is working for any other architecture quite yet ...
[08:36] <T-Bone> hehe
[08:38] <lamont> elmo: please sync kdelibs
[08:40] <elmo> lamont: done
[08:41] <elmo> doko: adare now has a hoary chroot and you have an account
[08:42] <doko> elmo: cool
[08:42] <elmo> Out-of-date BUT modified:  68 (6.59%)
[08:42] <elmo> Out-of-date BUT modified:  76 (0.97%)
[08:42] <doko> have to be there before fabbione starts the X builds ;)
[08:42] <elmo> main, universe
[08:42] <lamont> Kamion: mooning it won't help, but it might make you feel better....  And it avoids facing it! :-)
[08:43] <Kamion> *groan*
[08:43] <lamont> elmo: does that stat automatically pick up new sid  uploads?
[08:44] <elmo> lamont: yeah
[08:44] <elmo> I need to start filing bugs I guess for new ones
[08:45] <lamont> prolly
[08:47] <lamont> elmo: once the buildd's get caught up, I'll drop in the latest, which has max_build_percentage (then I'll make max_build=30, max_build_percent=25, and we'll handle both large and small influxes in a more distributed manner)
[08:47] <lamont> s/latest/latest buildd/
[08:47] <lamont> elmo: any chance that the universe-before-main included a main package that was 'unknown'?
[08:48] <elmo> it was d-i, so I doubt it
[08:48] <elmo> I saw it on whatever built the powerpc upload
[08:49] <Kamion> universe-before-main?
[08:50] <elmo> buildd ordering stuff
[08:50] <elmo> the buildd took 10 packages, 9 universe, 1 main (d-i) and built d-i last.. which is a bug
[08:51] <lamont> elmo: ok.  I'll stare at it a little bit - could be a trivial tweak
[08:52] <lamont> elmo: you mean this one?
[08:52] <elmo> lamont: it's not a big deal, the really critical stuff is warty-security, and I know that works (i.e. is built first), so don't go to any effort
[08:52] <lamont> Nov  1 17:19:12 buildd: Starting build (dist=hoary) of:
[08:52] <lamont> Nov  1 17:19:12 buildd: imlib2_1.1.0-12.4 gal2.2_2.2.3ubuntu1-1ubuntu1 dvd+rw-tools_<IP_ADDRESS>.8-1ubuntu1 debian-installer_20041027ubuntu1 ocaml-mad_0.1.2-2 ocaml-shout_0.1.1-2 ocaml-vorbis_0.1.1-2 simage_1.6.0-2 swt-gtk_3.0-6 swt-motif_3.0-4
[08:52] <elmo> blink
[08:52] <lamont> because that looks right...
[08:53] <elmo> lamont: blah, sorry, yes, it's fine.  god damn, i just suck at parsing simple things today
[08:58] <lamont> elmo: is the lene output fetchable (for each architecture, of course...)
[08:58] <lamont> ?
[08:58] <elmo> lamont: no, I could probably make it fetchable - LAN only tho, I'm afraid
[08:58] <elmo> (you're free to wget it on rookery, and dump it in your ~/public_html if you want tho)
[08:59] <elmo> I just can't expose jackass' apache
[09:00] <lamont> although it might not be a bad thing to wget to rookery
[09:01] <elmo> lamont: why do the buildds want it?
[09:01] <fabbione> daniels: i uploaded xrender ubuntu2 to fix the build-dep
[09:01] <fabbione> elmo: when you have time (= no rush) i will need access to the hoary chroots on yellow and adare
[09:01] <lamont> elmo: _I_ want it.
[09:01] <fabbione> elmo: do you want a mail for it?
[09:01] <fabbione> X.org can't build on warty anymore
[09:01] <lamont> so that I can do givebacks as needed to deal with the 90%-working auto-depwaiter.
[09:08] <mdz> pitti_: I have not reviewed the package; what is your analysis?
[09:11] <lamont> elmo: so s/buildd/in-dc-lan/
[09:13] <lamont> elmo: automake1.9 needs some NEW love.
[09:13] <elmo> automake1.9 is what broke katie earlier - I'm looking at it
[09:20] <lamont> elmo: ah, ok.
[09:20] <doko> lamont: that's hppa only, doesn't count.   At what time should I set a reminder to close the bug?
[09:47] <elmo> 3:17 local to jackass
[09:48] <mdz> thanks
[09:48] <elmo> (GMT atm)
[09:51] <mdz> justdave: can we have an 'automatically resolve in 24 hours' status in bugzilla? :-)
[09:54] <maswan> @ERROR: max connections (25) reached - try again later
[09:54] <mako> can someone give me some advice on the wiki question above?
[09:55] <maswan> or is it the other one?
[10:00] <mdz> mako: ?
[10:00] <justdave> mdz: funny you should ask... mozilla.org wants that, too. :)
[10:00] <maswan> or another ftpmaster, does archive.ubuntu.com limit to 25 rsync connections for the public modules, and if so can I as a mirror admin get access to a non-public, unlimited version?
[10:01] <justdave> Gerv was working on it, last I heard, but he's gone to Asia for a month as of yesterday
[10:04] <lamont> elmo: how often do the lene outputs run?
[10:18] <mako> mdz: i am going to start and then advertise a wiki page for non-canonical people that want to come to the conference.. where should i put it?
[10:19] <jdub> elmo, mdz: actually, i didn't tighten the list down
[10:19] <jdub> because all the mails are posted as the uploader
[10:19] <jdub> makes it hard
[10:20] <jdub> Kamion: heh
[10:22] <pitti_> mdz: back; re libarchive-zip-perl: the patch is from upstream and looks reasonable; however, I do not really consider a potential fooling of virus scanners as truly critical
[10:22] <pitti_> mdz: that's why I'm unsure whether to upload it
[10:22] <pitti_> mdz: there are probably a million ways to hide viruses from scanners anyway
[10:23] <pitti_> mdz: I think it's safe to upload, though
[10:24] <seb128> jdub: do we want hoary really usuable or that's a really a devel tree ? The new metacity (2.9.0) has switched the focus stealing prevention on again, but since some apps are still bugged that's a bit annoying to use ...
[10:26] <seb128> arg, can't build yelp
[10:26] <doko> mdz, pitti: For debian unstable I need the patch for mailscanner, that's why I noticed it. libarchive-zip-perl is in main, so I prepared the patch for warty. do we want to have something like volatile?
[10:26] <seb128> some GNOME stuff use libgcrypt7-dev, libxslt1-dev wants libgcrypt11-dev
[10:27] <seb128> time to transition to gnutls11 I guess
[10:28] <pitti> doko, mdz: if warty-updates would work, I would prefer putting the package there
[10:28] <pitti> doko: I do not feel that this is really critical for warty, that's why I still hesitate to upload it
[10:28] <pitti> doko: BTW, is it already fixed in Hoary?
[10:29] <doko> pitti: agreed, even gentoo marked it as low urgency
[10:29] <doko> yes, hoary has 1.14
[10:30] <lamont> seb128: transition to gcrypt11 is on my list if you don't get there first...  (or was that gnutls11...?)
[10:31] <seb128> both gnutls/gcrypt
[10:31] <lamont> seb128: heh. that was it, then. :-)
[10:32] <jdub> seb128: we're dogfooding!
[10:33] <Mitario> HI!
[10:35] <lamont> jdub: you are? really? wow!
[10:37] <jdub> that's what it's all about!
[10:37] <lamont> jdub: I thought that was the hokey-pokey
[10:46] <mdz> seb128: I still got file overlaps with the latest packages
[10:46] <seb128> hum, I've updated all the Replaces and it installed fine here
[10:47] <seb128> let me check
[10:47] <jdub> with the evo packages?
[10:47] <jdub> i had some problems too
[10:47] <jdub> apt-get -f install worked though
[10:47] <jdub> lamont: eeek
[10:47] <lamont> mdz: can't remember if openafs makes baby jesus cry or not.
[10:48] <mdz> jdub: "worked"
[10:48] <seb128> jdub: yes, this was with the debian version, should be fixed with the new upload ...
[10:48] <mdz> lamont: yes
[10:48] <mdz> lamont: it doesn't even work with 2.6 yet
[10:48] <seb128> mdz: which packages/files conflicts ?
[10:48] <mdz> seb128: sent you email
[10:48] <jdub> lamont: head spinning, green goo flying, etc.
[10:48] <seb128> ok
[10:48] <mdz> seb128: libedataserver3 has conflicts/replaces e-d-s << 1.0
[10:48] <lamont> mdz: fixed upstream in 1.3.37
[10:49] <mdz> seb128: but it conflicts with later versions than that still
[10:49] <seb128> mdz: I've updated the conflicts to 1.0.2, 1.0.0 was good for debian but we splitted later
[10:50] <mdz> hm, maybe it isn't built yet
[10:50] <mdz> but that was hours ago, wasn't it?
[10:50] <seb128> yes
[10:50] <mdz> the version being unpacked was 1.0.2-2ubuntu2
[10:50] <seb128> about 15min after you pinged me with the conflict
[10:51] <seb128> that's the fixed one
[10:51] <mdz> mizar:[~]  apt-cache show libedataserver3 | grep-dctrl -sVersion,Replaces,Conflicts ''
[10:51] <mdz> Version: 1.0.2-2ubuntu2
[10:51] <mdz> Replaces: evolution-data-server (<< 1.0.0)
[10:51] <mdz> Conflicts: evolution-data-server (<< 1.0.0)
[10:51] <mdz> looks exactly the same as the previous version
[10:51] <seb128> Conflicts: evolution-data-server (<< 1.0.2-1)
[10:51] <seb128> Replaces: evolution-data-server (<< 1.0.2-1)
[10:51] <seb128> in my debian/control
[10:51] <mdz> seb128: what version?
[10:51] <mdz> I thought 1.0.2-2ubuntu2 was the fixed one
[10:51] <mdz> according to the changelog
[10:52] <seb128> should be, I'm updating
[10:53] <mdz> seb128: control.in has 1.0.2, but control has 1.0.0
[10:54] <seb128> mdz: oups, -2ubuntu3 on its way ...
[10:54] <mdz> thanks
[10:56] <seb128> ok, eds doesn't update the control during the clean target, that's why ...
[11:00] <mdz> jdub: did you fix the problem with the calendar package where the entries aren't added to the list of backgrounds?
[11:01] <jdub> mdz: that only seemed to happen for you
[11:02] <jdub> mdz: perhaps killing nautilus would help
[11:02] <mdz> I find that very hard to believe
[11:02] <mdz> jdub: I have logged out and logged back in
[11:02] <jdub> who else has upgraded to -calendar-november?
[11:02] <mdz> I think this is the same breakage that scott and I kept running into when messing with the backgorund stuff
[11:02] <mdz> sometimes it just decides not to update ~/.gnome2/backgrounds.xml
[11:03] <jdub> mdz: that'll be out of scope for u-c releases then
[11:03] <mdz> jdub: it's in scope for hoary
[11:03] <jdub> hrm, i should do hoary releases of those, too
[11:04] <srbaker_> anyone here done any packaging of mono apps?
[11:05] <mdz> srbaker: tseng
[11:05] <srbaker_> tseng, around?
[11:05] <pitti> mdz: can you please review #3131 (patch and advisory text)? TIA
[11:05] <srbaker_> mdz, apparently mono apps like to install in /usr/lib/<prog> and they're supposed to go in /usr/share/dotnet/<prog>/
[11:05] <jdub> mdz: probably best to file a bug and provide a strace or something; i'm not going to be able to fix it
[11:06] <mdz> pitti: how is $TMPLIB generated?
[11:07] <pitti> mdz: the usual insanity with $$
[11:07] <mdz> pitti: ok, as long as it isn't static, otherwise it's an easy DoS
[11:07] <mdz> pitti: patch looks fine
[11:07] <pitti> mdz: but since it is a directory, checking that mkdir is successful should be safe
[11:07] <pitti> mdz: I thought about using mktemp -d, but it is not portable
[11:07] <mdz> pitti: on the text, s/allowed/could allow/
[11:10] <pitti> mdz: otherwise okay?
[11:10] <mdz> pitti: yes
[11:31] <seb128> ?
[11:31] <seb128> for what ? :)
[11:31] <jdub> hoary uploads :)
[11:31] <seb128> oh
[11:32] <jdub> should i work on a few 2.9 upgrades while you're asleep?
[11:32] <jdub> looks like evo's on its way in atm
[11:32] <seb128> if you want, but I can manage them tomorrow
[11:33] <seb128> I just don't want to break evo before going to sleep so I'm doing them tonight
[11:33] <jdub> cool
[11:33] <seb128> s/I'm doing/I'm *not* doing/
[11:33] <jdub> heh
[11:34] <seb128> BTW yelp has been accepted but gnome-doc-utils is probably stucked in NEW
[11:34] <seb128> elmo: ? :)
[11:37] <jdub> elmo, mdz: would it be better to sync u-c uploads from warty-updates to hoary, or upload new ones?
[11:37] <seb128> jdub: so we really want metacity 2.9.0 ? :)
[11:39] <seb128> I've it ready to upload, but I fear some people will not be happy, little focus problems are very annoying sometime :)
[11:39] <jdub> seb128: sooner people use it, the sooner it'll get fixed :)
[11:39] <seb128> right
[11:39] <seb128> GO GO GO
[11:39] <jdub> ;)
[11:39] <seb128> I don't fear the bug reports :)
[11:39] <jdub> we'll just mark them all UPSTREAM ;)
[11:40] <seb128> ah ah, true :p
[11:40] <seb128> BTW do you have this gstreamer crash ?
[11:41] <seb128> supposed to be ubuntu specific, but no problem here and the packages have no significant changes ...
[11:43] <jdub> seb128: haven't seen it :|
[11:48] <seb128> ok
[11:48] <seb128> that's not really and evo is out
[11:48] <seb128> let's go with the evo stack NOW
[11:48] <seb128> I'll sleep a bit later tomorrow :p
[11:48] <seb128> (doh, today was a supposed to be not working day here :p)
[11:50] <jdub> heh
[11:50] <carlos> seb128: that's the problem with us, we are too work addicts :-P
[11:50] <seb128> carlos: to be honest I can't wait to get all the cool stuff in 2.9 :)
[11:51] <jdub> me too :-)
[11:51] <carlos> seb128: are there so many changes with 2.9.1?
[11:51] <seb128> a bunch of good ones yes
[11:51] <seb128> the new mountapplet in GNOME applets
[11:52] <seb128> metacity as focus stealing prevention back
[11:52] <jdub> gtk+ 2.5
[11:52] <seb128> that too
[11:52] <seb128> I like the extensions chooser in epiphany too :)
[11:52] <seb128> you can turn on/off the extensions you want to use in the UI
[11:53] <jdub> cool
[11:53] <carlos> jdub: when is the GNOME feature freeze?
[11:53] <jdub> carlos: jan 10th
[11:53] <jdub> perfect timing for the ubuntu conference ;)
[11:53] <carlos> so hoary will have the freeze before GNOME?
[11:54] <jdub> hoary will have upstream version freeze, yeah
[11:54] <jdub> but that's independent of GNOME in hoary
[11:54] <carlos> yes, I know, I was talking about "global system freeze"
[11:55] <mdz> seb128: don't worry about breaking evo; it seems broken already (for new users) ;-)
[11:56] <seb128> mdz: oh yes, I've some mails about evo freezing but no idea of the problem for the moment
[11:56] <mdz> seb128: I am able to reproduce it easily here
[11:56] <mdz> it spins
[11:57] <jdub> carlos: our UpstreamVersionFreeze is before GNOME's feature freeze (but doesn't effect GNOME), our FeatureFreeze is one month after GNOME's
[11:57] <seb128> I'll work on this tomorrow so (if 2.1.0 doesn't fix that)
[11:59] <jdub> mdz: good solution from Niall Sheridan re: ipv6


[12:13] <rr> hello
[12:15] <rr> Does anyone here know were to reassigned my menu keys in xfce ? (super L) Tried in menu but I don't find the simple assignment to start menu when pressing super L
[12:18] <gnrp> rr: Go to keyboard settings, and then assign a key for xfce4-popup-whiskermenu
[12:18] <gnrp> I mean, you have to create a new shortcut for an application
[12:23] <rr> thanks, but already done. Doesn't work, but could be my strange hardware who makes such strange behaviour
[12:26] <rr> when I try to assign super L on xfce4-appfinder you must let the key pressed, or the menu disapeared as soon as it appeared. Probably the lack of a return command, same with Fn+Mute.


[09:41] <airurando> morning
[09:44] <slashbel> good morning
[09:44] <czajkowski> howdy folks
[09:46] <slashbel> when do you arrive back home czajkowski?
[09:46] <tdr112> morning
[09:46] <airurando> hows the jaw czajkowski
[09:47] <airurando> This morning I washed the Ubuntu LoCo Team Tablecloth in preparation for skycon.
[09:48] <czajkowski> airurando: sore :/
[09:48] <czajkowski> I really do need to go to a dentist..
[09:48] <czajkowski> taking asprin instead atm
[09:48] <czajkowski> slashbel: 5/6 oct need to book flights
[09:48] <airurando> you should just bite the bullet
[09:49] <airurando> surely someone over there can recommend a good one.
[09:49] <slashbel> aye, you will be glad you did afterwards
[09:53] <czajkowski> you just dont get the fear
[09:53] <czajkowski> I really am not good with dentists
[09:53] <czajkowski> :(
[09:55] <ebel> erk :(
[09:55] <ebel> Try to fight the fear and go in and just do it....
[09:56] <czajkowski> I can just about open it wide enough to put one and a half fingers
[09:56] <ebel> :(
[09:58] <airurando> I do hope you can get past the fear and find a dentist you like and trust.
[09:59] <czajkowski> me too
[09:59] <czajkowski> until then
[09:59] <czajkowski> pain killers
[09:59] <czajkowski> and being rather non talkitive
[09:59] <airurando> :(
[10:00] <zmoylan> had the same probelm with dentists years ago.  a friend recommend a great one who i've stuck with since.  maybe ask on twitter for recommendations?
[10:01] <delcoyote> apt-get dentist czajkowski
[10:01] <czajkowski> I had a nice one down in abbeyfeal I used to go to
[10:01] <czajkowski> they gave me eye treks to wear and earphones
[10:02] <slashbel> aye czajkowski recommended me a dentist, have used them ever since :)
[10:02] <czajkowski> so I couldnt see or hear
[10:02] <ebel> I know someone else who has a fear of denstists, and also waits too long before going
[10:02] <czajkowski> I then moved to dublin and went to smiles and they were really good
[10:02] <ebel> czajkowski: hehe, good idea, blindfold etc. the person so they can't hear... Very clever
[10:03] <ebel> You could bring your own blindfold? Borrow some noise cancelling headphones?
[10:03] <airurando> I'm sure there are equally good (if not better) places in London.
[10:04] <slashbel> not nhs though
[10:04] <zmoylan> the problem is that one persons good dentist isn't so great for another as expectactions and preferences differ.
[10:04] <czajkowski> nods
[10:05] <slashbel> i like smiles, nice and modern… no crusty old man with old machines
[10:05] <zmoylan> and there is a lot of trust required with dentistry. to me at least.
[10:15] <czajkowski> zmoylan: exactly me also
[10:15] <czajkowski> smiles were really good as I got a guy who understood I was nervous
[10:15] <czajkowski> so he explained everything he was doign and when he was doing it
[10:15] <zmoylan> and it's harder to create that trust when we are going there for the first time in pain
[10:16] <czajkowski> :/
[10:16] <czajkowski> indeed
[10:17] <zmoylan> my dentists approach was simply to say let me know if you feel anything and we'll simply make you more numb.  even his trick with injecting the needle means you don't feel it.
[10:17] <czajkowski> nice
[10:17] <czajkowski> I think it's also the noise I associate with pain
[10:18] <zmoylan> he presses his fingernail into the point of injection and increases pressure and then slides the needle in and lessens the pressure so that there is no sting of the needle.  ingenious.
[10:18] <czajkowski> ah
[12:30] <zmoylan> and assuming that everyone has 2 names is just dumbness squared.
[12:31] <zmoylan> whoops wrong channel
[12:40] <czajkowski> lol
[12:48] <zmoylan> discussing nymwars and g+ elsewhere.
[12:49] <ebel> Firstname Lastname ?
[12:49] <zmoylan> and what about folks who have mononyms?
[12:49] <ebel> or 3
[12:49] <zmoylan> christian name, surname, given name and family name.  the order the names are given even changes depending on the culture
[12:50] <zmoylan> so you have to hope the person writing in the information knows ALL the customs across the planet to get it right.  better just having one large name field.
[12:52] <ebel> yep. likewise for addresses.
[12:52]  * ebel doesn't have a christian name
[12:52] <zmoylan> and don't get me started on date formats *nervous tic* :-)
[12:53] <ebel> hehe
[12:53] <czajkowski> zmoylan: oh join the club
[12:53] <czajkowski> not a lover of double barrel names after working in the health board for years
[12:53] <czajkowski> messes massively with the DB
[12:53] <czajkowski> and also peopl often switch them around
[12:53] <czajkowski> or go by one and not the other
[12:53] <zmoylan> it's like when i was being checked into st. vincents and they wouldn't allow athiest as religion so i chose church of the flying spaghetti monster. :-D
[12:54] <zmoylan> and gender with only 2 options is another.
[12:54] <czajkowski> zmoylan: half the problem is the back end they enter the detauls in needs some fields filled in
[12:54] <czajkowski> and there is no way to edit the system
[12:54] <ebel> zmoylan: they are required under the data protection acts to store personal data correctly.
[12:54] <ebel> they would be breaking the law not to store it. :P
[12:54] <zmoylan> or sql databases that don't allow ' in names like o'brien
[12:55] <czajkowski> no the HSe db does do that
[12:55] <ebel> (I know it's not the fault nor within the power of the clerk at the front, but tis interesting to know that "Yes you are breaking the law" :) )
[12:55] <czajkowski> but also the people inputting them dont always do the ' bit
[12:55] <czajkowski> ebel: yeah been on the end of some of that before
[12:55] <czajkowski> but the system will not let you do some things
[12:56] <czajkowski> so you're kinda caught as well
[12:56] <zmoylan> then it's a bad system
[12:56] <czajkowski> and can you imagine the cost associate with that over all
[12:56] <czajkowski> PAS is an evil system
[12:56] <ebel> Yeah. Solution is to write to the HSE or whatever, tell them their personal data is incorrect, then if they don't change it to write to Data Protection Commisioner. No point yelling at clerk.
[12:57] <ebel> (Once an organisation is told the data they hold is incorrect, they are legally required to change it, or they're breaking the law)
[12:57] <czajkowski> ebel: nods
[12:57] <czajkowski> also a pita the system is not connected up country wide
[12:57] <zmoylan> not always a solution.  the irish central registry won't allow you to change your name to a mononym. no legal reason either.  just custom
[12:57] <czajkowski> so they all log into the PAS system as that's the db system each hosptail uses
[12:57] <czajkowski> but details are stored in each hospital differently
[12:58] <ebel> zmoylan: friend of friend in UK changed her surname to just one letter. Causes no end of headscratching apparently
[12:58] <zmoylan> dates back to the vikings for tax reasons.  only 1000 years old.  irish names were mononyms before that.
[12:58] <ebel> apparently in the UK you cannot not have a surname (legally) so they are probably not breaking the law to have that.
[12:58] <ebel> might be the same in ireland.
[12:59] <zmoylan> it's just that in ireland a nickname can be more known and used than a legal name.  my aunt was known as tiddles all her life since childhood.  it was only after her funeral that i asked what her birthname was.
[13:00] <czajkowski> zmoylan: sure Jon the other half is Jon to me but that's not his birthcert name
[13:00] <czajkowski> but *all* stuff is logged as jon except flights and passport
[13:01] <ebel> A lot of older women might be called mary (say), but go by another name for all of the life. Can be a bit annoying when doing out a death cert to ensure you have the right name apparently
[13:01] <ebel> czajkowski: aye, always get flight tickets in passport name. Simple and easy to follow rule.
[13:01] <zmoylan> my fathers name was william desmond moylan.  nobody, but nobody called him any of that.  des or dessy depending on familiarity.