[00:02]  * penguin42 is just trying to see if he could track the position of the citys trams some of which now have wifi - would be fun
[00:02] <daftykins> :D
[00:08] <penguin42> although I suspect I'm not close enough to the tracks and only a few of the trams have the wifi so far
[00:14] <daftykins> penguin42: surprising they don't have live data :>
[00:16] <penguin42> daftykins: <sigh>
[00:17] <daftykins> hmm?
[00:17] <daftykins> offer to set them up a system :D
[00:17] <penguin42> daftykins: they've been trying to get a new 'Tram management system' going for many years, have taken the provider to court, and this is supposed to do many things including live data; but they haven't got it to work on the oldest parts of the system yet
[00:21] <penguin42> daftykins: http://openlettertometrolink.blogspot.co.uk/  (warning a couple of bits of swearing)
[00:22] <daftykins> :D
[00:23] <ali1234> ah manchester trams
[00:24] <daftykins> omg Gordon Burns!
[00:26] <ali1234> i never thought they were too bad, just too expensive
[00:27] <penguin42> ali1234: They're not bad most of the time, but they do have periods where they get bad, and they're completely useless when something minor breaks in some far part of the system it just screws the whole thing up
[00:27] <ali1234> last time i used it there was only 3 lines
[00:27] <ali1234> and really only two
[00:28] <ali1234> eccles, altrincham, or bury
[00:28] <penguin42> ali1234: It's gained a few more now
[00:29] <ali1234> what is "oldham mumps"
[00:29] <ali1234> it sounds like a disease
[00:29] <penguin42> ali1234: There is Rochdale-oldham to Manchester, Didsbury to Manchester and Ashton to Manchester
[00:29] <penguin42> ali1234: Oldham mumps is a station in Oldham, at least one theory is it was named (or the original railway station/area) was named after a mumps output
[00:30] <penguin42> break
[00:30] <ali1234> why would you name a station after that??
[00:31] <penguin42> ah, wikipedia says 'The name of the station is taken from its situation within the Mumps area of Oldham, which itself probably derived from the archaic word "mumper", slang for a beggar'
[00:31] <ali1234> that's not much better :/
[00:32] <penguin42> ali1234: The choice of good things to pick in Oldham is pretty limited
[00:32] <ali1234> when are they going to build the line through fallowfield and victoria park?
[00:34] <penguin42> hmm I'm not sure I've heard of that
[00:34] <penguin42> http://www.metrolink.co.uk/futuremetrolink/Pages/airport-line.aspx is the only sother southern line I know
[00:35] <ali1234> it's on this picture titles "metrolink 2030"
[00:35] <ali1234> http://www.projectmapping.co.uk/Reviews/Resources/Future%20Metrolink%202030.gif
[00:38] <penguin42> huh not seen some of those
[00:39] <penguin42> ali1234: Some of them are really odd, like the airport one they're building at the moment; the Airport already has a regular train link and the tram line they're doing goes a biarrely long route
[00:39] <ali1234> well, there's not point following the existing route
[00:40] <penguin42> ali1234: Well the original Bury/Altrincham lines were conversions of train routes
[00:40] <ali1234> it's weird to me that manchester has trains too
[00:40] <ali1234> but you never see stations
[00:40] <penguin42> yeh, unlike Liverpool where it's prettymuch their own undeground
[00:40] <ali1234> unless you go to levenshulme
[00:40] <penguin42> ali1234: never see?
[00:40] <ali1234> i mean train stations, not tram stops
[00:41] <ali1234> obviosly you see piccadilly and oxford road
[00:41] <ali1234> but i mean the local stations
[00:41] <penguin42> hmm, they are around just not particularly dense, and they're normally because they're on a route to somewhere else
[00:42] <ali1234> i used to get the train from levenshulme to town a lot
[00:42] <ali1234> it was much cheaper than the tram
[00:42] <penguin42> well except there wasn't a tram from levenshulme so it's difficult to compare
[00:43] <ali1234> well yeah
[00:43] <ali1234> but it was like £2, and going 1 stop on the tram was like £3.60
[00:43] <ali1234> but this is why it's weird
[00:44] <ali1234> there's busses, trains, and trams, and the only interchange is at piccadilly/oxford road/victoria
[00:44] <penguin42> yeh, it's very variable - mine doesn't work out too badly; it works out ~150 for 3 months quarterly ticket
[00:45] <ali1234> i never had enough money to buy more than a weekly pass
[00:45] <penguin42> ali1234: There are some more minor interchanges, e.g. Deansgate train station is linked to a Metrolink station, similarly there are major bus stations next to the Picadilly Gardens and Shudehill stations
[00:45] <ali1234> those are all within walking distance from the city centre though
[00:45] <penguin42> yes
[00:46] <penguin42> there are a few other hubs; like Bury and Altrincham have the tram/bus stations close together
[00:46] <ali1234> yeah i used to live in altrincham too :)
[00:46] <ali1234> but closer to navigation road
[00:47] <penguin42> ali1234: But that's a weird one - that one is both a train and tram station?
[00:47] <ali1234> yes but so is altrincham - and a bus depot too
[01:12] <daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/hdwboctp8y5lknk/yIcvAOJERu
[01:12] <daftykins> never made one before @_@
[01:48] <ali1234> daftykins: what is it?
[01:49] <ali1234> a fried cheese sandwich?
[01:49] <ali1234> i've never even heard of such a thing before...
[01:49] <ali1234> but now i want one
[01:49] <penguin42> for when the cheese isn't fatty enough
[01:56] <daftykins> ^precisely
[01:56] <daftykins> i'm skinny though so it's fine
[01:57] <popey> interestingly i only heard of them recently
[01:57] <popey> via reddit/imgur or something
[01:57] <popey> and the instant I saw it, I wanted one
[01:57] <ali1234> i guess it's like a cheese toasty, without the breville
[01:58] <popey> yeah
[01:58] <popey> withouy the nuclear hot filling, but close
[02:06] <daftykins> :D
[02:06] <daftykins> i can officially endorse them
[06:34] <Myrtti> morning
[06:35] <daftykins> hiya
[07:17] <jsm4311> exit
[09:05] <Myrtti> Ceterum censeo, Project Hamster needs crowdfunding
[09:05] <Myrtti> and someone to maintain it
[09:37] <brobostigon> good morning everyone.
[09:37] <roht> tanks
[09:37] <brobostigon> morning roht
[09:37] <roht> morning
[09:40] <MartijnVdS> \o
[09:40] <brobostigon> morning MartijnVdS
[10:30] <popey> Does steam tell you when you're playing a game which is beta?
[10:30] <popey> well, tell your friends?
[10:30] <MartijnVdS> popey: I don't think so
[10:31] <popey> can you see what I'm playing now for example?
[10:31] <MartijnVdS> popey: let me check
[10:32] <MartijnVdS> "in-game: godus"
[10:32] <popey> so it does, interesting
[10:52] <SuperEngineer> popey - if you want to see what others see, click your piccy on bottom right
[11:09] <Myrtti> oh yeah and Harvest support would be great too.
[11:20]  * MartijnVdS reports a kernel bug
[11:20] <MartijnVdS> well, did an hour ago
[11:21] <penguin42> what did it do?
[11:21] <MartijnVdS> penguin42: they forgot to enable L2TP v3 ("pseudowire") support
[11:22] <penguin42> what's the bug number?
[11:22] <MartijnVdS> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1235914
[11:23] <penguin42> MartijnVdS: Was it previously enabled or is it something new?
[11:23] <MartijnVdS> penguin42: I don't think it's been enabled before, it's been in the kernel since 2.6.35ish, but it wasn't mature then
[11:24] <MartijnVdS> penguin42: according to http://wiki.openwrt.org/doc/howto/pseudowire
[11:27] <penguin42> MartijnVdS: OK, I've just marked it triaged/low - you might want to try pinging someone in #ubuntu-kernel if nothing happens for a while
[11:32] <MartijnVdS> ok, thanks - it's not a release-critical issue for me.. but it'd be nice to have in the LTS :)
[11:33] <penguin42> MartijnVdS: Hmm for the 14.03 you mean?
[11:35] <penguin42> hmm I was about to set a 'target to milestone' for that LTS and now I'm confused, I seem to have options for 13.11,13.12,14.01,14.02,14.03 which seems new
[11:37] <penguin42> MartijnVdS: The other thing is that if it's enabled in the kernel and you know how to try it then keep an eye on it to see whether any of the user space tools need an update
[11:44] <MartijnVdS> penguin42: "ip l2tp" complains atm, I think it would start working with the module enabled
[11:45] <penguin42> MartijnVdS: Nod, it's just not too unusual to need to update that stuff
[12:20] <SuperEngineer> phew! realised I hadn't tried the 3g dongle since last kernel update.  Plugged the (1/2) USB in socket wrong way round: instant "click" from psu & pwer kill :(
[12:20] <SuperEngineer>  Waited 2mins - restarted - got away with it :)
[12:20] <SuperEngineer> [and dongle ok as well ;)
[12:22] <SuperEngineer> ...things not to do whilst awaiting the F1 replay on telly!
[12:27] <popey> penguin42: we use monthly milestones for tracking
[12:36] <Myrtti> popey: do you have few minutes for a pm? just nosying around
[12:38] <penguin42> popey: Ah ok, I was wondering if it was a sign of the mythical rolling release system
[13:11] <popey> Myrtti: sure, anytime
[15:01] <arc__> hello
[15:01] <arc__> i am back again with my problems
[15:02] <arc__> i think i was talking to daftkins last time
[15:02] <daftykins> ask away!
[15:04] <arc__> anyway i have a problem with file sharing between my mac g5 and my ubuntu laptop my mac always says that the connection has failed
[15:04] <arc__> I used this tutioral web.archive.org/web/20100719220308/http://blog.ibd.com/sysadmin/bonjour-avahi-netatalk-to-share-files-files-between-ubuntu-10-4-mac-os-x/
[15:05] <arc__> i am using ubuntu 12.04 LTS
[15:07] <arc__> can anyone help
[15:07] <daftykins> ah yes - did you end up connecting the ubuntu PC to the router without your phone tethered?
[15:08] <arc__> yep but it still does not work
[15:09] <daftykins> with that done, it could be handy to pastebin the output of "ifconfig -a" and "netstat -tuln" again
[15:09] <daftykins> biab shower time
[15:09] <penguin42> (macs still use netatalk - wow....)
[15:10] <arc__> ok but do u want me to connect to my router and do it
[15:11] <arc__> yes or no
[15:12] <penguin42> arc__: Can the mac ping the ubuntu box?
[15:13] <daftykins> penguin42: the other day i was weirded out by his SSH listening on IPv6 only, as 'netstat -tuln' reported only tcp6 :22 - i didn't know if this was what was causing issues
[15:13] <daftykins> anywho shower bbl :>
[15:13] <arc__> i haven't tryied but my ubuntu laptop can ping the mac but i can't access my mac apache web server
[15:14] <arc__> i will turn my g5 (mac) on noe
[15:14] <arc__> it has lift off (my g5 is on)
[15:14] <penguin42> arc__: Yeh I'd check they can ping each other (by name) and if it can't access your macs apache that's a bit odd, I'd probably figure that out before doing anything more comple
[15:14] <penguin42> x
[15:16] <arc__> ok but also is there a way to keep my usb mobile tether internet connected whille my ehernet is connected
[15:17] <arc__> cuz i all ways use mobile internet (unlimited data :)
[15:17] <penguin42> I'd expect that to 'just' work - just be careful with the IP address range each network uses
[15:18] <arc__> ok but how can i use 2 at the same time
[15:19] <penguin42> hang on, which ubuntu you using - standard ubuntu - 13.04?
[15:19] <arc__> normal 12.04 LTS on my laptop
[15:20] <penguin42> ah ok
[15:20] <penguin42> let me just boot my 12.04 vm
[15:20] <arc__> kk
[15:21] <penguin42> I've not done USB tether, but I guess that just shows as another connection in network manager?
[15:22] <arc__> yea it dies
[15:22] <arc__> i mean does
[15:23] <penguin42> arc__: How is your ethernet done - is it just a switch wired between a few machines or do you have a router doing DHCP?
[15:24] <arc__> no internet but connected to 1 or sometimes 2 other machines
[15:24] <arc__> my mac can't ping my router
[15:24] <arc__> or even access it
[15:25] <arc__> wii reboot my mac ang try again
[15:25] <arc__> rebooting now
[15:26] <arc__> (on my G5)
[15:29] <penguin42> but what do you mean by 'router' - where is the router in this?
[15:31] <arc__> i want the "router" so i connect computers to my network to share and backup family files on a cut off network and to share files from my mobile via wifi
[15:32] <penguin42> hmm ok, but I think you need to draw a diagram of how this thing is wired - I don't quite get it
[15:33] <penguin42> arc__: a question to ask is think of your ubuntu box, it's tethered via usb, but also wired to a router, say it wants to connect out to google how does it know whether to go via the router or via the usb
[15:34] <daftykins> i figured his setup was tripping over default routes yeah
[15:34] <arc__> yea that is one of my problems i want the usb internet but still connect to my router is there a way to do this propely
[15:35] <penguin42> arc__: Right, so when do you want stuff to go via the router?
[15:35] <penguin42> arc__: You can do this, the challenge is to start by writing down what rules you want - when do you want stuff to go where
[15:35] <arc__> my file shares
[15:35] <arc__> kk
[15:35] <penguin42> arc__: Right but you said about your wifi - when does that happen?
[15:36] <arc__> it is a idea that i want to implement to add to the file shareing but lets ignore that for now
[15:37] <penguin42> arc__: OK, well for filesharing you don't need the router at all
[15:37] <arc__> so how do i do it then
[15:37] <penguin42> arc__: Just plug the computers together using a dumb switch
[15:37] <arc__> a what ?
[15:38] <penguin42> just a normal ethernet switch
[15:39] <arc__> ok so can i make one do i buy one
[15:40] <penguin42> arc__: If you have a router, you can probably also do it with that if you're more careful
[15:40] <arc__> kk so lets do this
[15:41] <penguin42> arc__: First off, take your ubuntu box, just plug in the usb tether and then figure out what IP address it thinks it has ; so with just the usb tether plugged in   in a terminal do     ifconfig -a     and look for an    inet addr:     line - what does it say
[15:41] <arc__> so my mac is log in to my router
[15:41] <penguin42> arc__: e.g. I've got an eth0 that says    inet addr:<IP_ADDRESS>
[15:42] <arc__> on usb0 is says inet addr:<IP_ADDRESS>
[15:42] <penguin42> ok, good write that down and also keep a note of the bcast and mask stuff on that line
[15:43] <arc__> done
[15:43] <arc__> afk for a sec
[15:43] <penguin42> now, unplug the usb tether and just plug in your ether  and do the same trick
[15:44] <arc__> ok i am back
[15:45] <arc__> ok i will do that but it will disconnect my from the internet so i will use another name untill it pings me out i will use X98Hacker
[15:45] <arc__> kk see u in a sec
[15:47] <X98Hacker> kk i am back
[15:48] <penguin42> ok
[15:48] <X98Hacker> it says this on eth0 inet addr:<IP_ADDRESS>  Bcast:<IP_ADDRESS>  Mask:<IP_ADDRESS>
[15:49] <penguin42> X98Hacker: OK, good - so that means that your usb is using 192.168.42.x and your router is handing out 192.168.1.x which is good because they don't clash
[15:49] <X98Hacker> yay :)
[15:49] <penguin42> X98Hacker: Now, if you do     route -n    what does the default line say ?
[15:50] <X98Hacker> is says this on the first line  <IP_ADDRESS>         <IP_ADDRESS>  <IP_ADDRESS>         UG    0      0        0 usb0
[15:50] <penguin42> ok
[15:50] <penguin42> X98Hacker: So that says go to your usb tether (<IP_ADDRESS>) for anything it doesn't know
[15:51] <penguin42> X98Hacker: The trick is to keep that even when your wired is plugged in
[15:51] <X98Hacker> ok so how do we do that then
[15:51] <penguin42> X98Hacker: So I bet if you just have your wired plugged in ithat changes to something like <IP_ADDRESS> <IP_ADDRESS> ...... eth0   ?
[15:52] <X98Hacker> i think it would
[15:52] <X98Hacker> wait would it not "<IP_ADDRESS>"
[15:53] <penguin42> X98Hacker: I don't think so, I think your router has the IP <IP_ADDRESS> and your ubuntu box has <IP_ADDRESS>
[15:53] <X98Hacker> wait let me paste.ubuntu something
[15:54] <X98Hacker> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6201217/ here this is on just connected to the router
[15:55] <penguin42> right
[15:55] <X98Hacker> it say  <IP_ADDRESS>
[15:55] <penguin42> X98Hacker: So that machines your ubuntu has the address <IP_ADDRESS> - the router has a different address, every machine on a network has a different address including the router
[15:55] <penguin42> X98Hacker: Go on, pastebin the output of route -n   on the wired network
[15:56] <X98Hacker> ok then i will rejoin as arc__ again then see ya
[15:57] <arc__> ok i am back pasteing it know
[15:58] <arc__> here it is http://paste.ubuntu.com/6201232/
[15:58] <penguin42> right
[15:59] <penguin42> arc__: So that says if it doesn't know where else to go, connect to the router at <IP_ADDRESS>
[15:59] <penguin42> arc__: But for everything in 192.168.1.x it just goes direct (that's the last line)
[15:59] <arc__> kk so that means
[16:00] <penguin42> arc__: The way IP works is that whenever it tries to connect somewhere it looks down the list and goes 'WHich one of these rules matches the address I'm going to' (ish)
[16:00] <penguin42> arc__: So what you need to do is stop it putting in that default line on wired
[16:00] <penguin42> arc__: So do network manager-edit connections-wired
[16:00] <arc__> kk
[16:01] <arc__> so do i type in this to terminal  network manager-edit connections-wired
[16:01] <penguin42> arc__: Then select your wired connetion and do edit and go to IPv4 settings, change it from Automatic (DHCP) to Automatic DHCP (address only)
[16:02] <penguin42> arc__: Now if you do that, save it, and then unplug and replug the wired you should find the ifconfig is the same but the route -n   doesn't have the default line
[16:02] <arc__> wait
[16:02] <arc__> so do i type in this to terminal  network manager-edit connections-wired
[16:02] <penguin42> no, you can do it from the GUI
[16:03] <penguin42> arc__: Click on the network icon on the panel and there is an 'edit connections' option
[16:03] <arc__> cool i was thinking that sorry :)
[16:07] <X98Hacker> sorry i did it to my usb internet
[16:08] <penguin42> yeh you see that would be a bad idea
[16:08] <X98Hacker> so i do it to auto eth0
[16:08] <penguin42> nod
[16:08] <X98Hacker> kk do it
[16:08] <X98Hacker> i mean done it
[16:08] <penguin42> X98Hacker: Because you want your ubuntu box to use the address given (by dhcp by the router) but you don't want it to bother using any other info like the route the router gives out
[16:09] <X98Hacker> now if i plug my eth0 in it will work right i am doing it now
[16:10] <penguin42> if it does then look at the ifconfig and route -n output
[16:15] <X98Hacker> pengiun42
[16:15] <penguin42> hey
[16:16] <X98Hacker> that did not work did you see this message
[16:16] <X98Hacker> pluged in can you see this
[16:16] <penguin42> I can see you now
[16:16] <X98Hacker> ok pasteing now
[16:16] <penguin42> X98Hacker: So the question is with it plugged in what did the   ifconfig -a and route -n look like
[16:17] <X98Hacker> have a look for your self http://paste.ubuntu.com/6201313/
[16:17] <penguin42> hmm, it's still set the default interface to the router
[16:18] <daftykins> perhaps it didn't flush from before
[16:18] <X98Hacker> kk
[16:18] <penguin42> let me just try it in my VM
[16:18] <X98Hacker> ok
[16:20] <penguin42> hmph yes it ignores it - hmm
[16:20] <penguin42> let me try something
[16:20] <X98Hacker> wait don't read the top bit read after need to send
[16:21] <X98Hacker> why do you just team viewer me
[16:21] <penguin42> ok, got it
[16:21] <X98Hacker> cool
[16:21] <penguin42> X98Hacker: On the edit connections, under IPv4 setting ther eis a box 'Routes' click it
[16:22] <penguin42> X98Hacker: And then tick the two boxes 'ignore automatically obtained routes' and 'use this connection only for reosurces on its network'
[16:23] <penguin42> (at least you need the Use this connection.... one I don't know if you also need the top one, I don't see why ticking the top one doesn't also do the bottom)
[16:23] <X98Hacker> ok i have cilck it and pressed ok
[16:23] <penguin42> then click save, and disconnect/reconnect the wired
[16:23] <X98Hacker> ok crossed fingers
[16:24]  * penguin42 undoes that before it confuses the heck out of him
[16:26] <X98Hacker> ok pengin
[16:26] <X98Hacker> can u see this
[16:26] <X98Hacker> kk
[16:26] <X98Hacker> i said ok penguin did u see it i had to unplug the eth0
[16:26] <penguin42> nod
[16:27] <penguin42> I saw the ok pengin
[16:27] <X98Hacker> after that what did u see
[16:27] <penguin42> can u see this
[16:27] <penguin42> then kk
[16:28] <X98Hacker> ok so it did work but on x-chat-gnome it says +22.5 lag for some reson i will reconect my eth0 then
[16:30] <X98Hacker> pengiun say testing
[16:30] <penguin42> testing!
[16:30] <X98Hacker> that did not work
[16:31] <penguin42> ok, so what does your route/ifconfig look like in that state?
[16:31] <X98Hacker> when i connected mt eht0 i could not connect to google.com
[16:32] <X98Hacker> here u go http://paste.ubuntu.com/6201369/
[16:32] <X98Hacker> just to let u know i am only on usb0 i disconnected my eth0
[16:32] <penguin42> ok, so that looks right though
[16:33] <penguin42> with both plugged in can you ping google by ip - e.g.   ping <IP_ADDRESS>
[16:33] <X98Hacker> but i can't connect to google.com
[16:33] <penguin42> right but try to see if IP works first
[16:34] <X98Hacker> kk going in again
[16:37] <X98Hacker> it says operation not permited
[16:37] <X98Hacker> diconnected also when eth0 is connected my mobile say there is no out going or in going connection
[16:37] <X98Hacker> diconnected also when eth0 is connected my mobile say there is no out going or in going connection
[16:37] <penguin42> I don't really get that since I can see the ifconfig showing the usb connected and the eth connected?
[16:38] <X98Hacker> it says operation not permited
[16:38] <penguin42> to do what?
[16:39] <X98Hacker> to do ping <IP_ADDRESS>
[16:39] <X98Hacker> diconnected also when eth0 is connected my mobile say there is no out going or in going connection
[16:40] <penguin42> I don't see why it would say  operation not permitted?!  I get connect: Netowkr is unreachable  but never not permitted
[16:40] <X98Hacker> yea
[16:40] <X98Hacker> maybe rdp me anfd
[16:40] <penguin42> X98Hacker: You could try     nmcli c status
[16:41] <X98Hacker> team viewer me and have a look for your self
[16:41] <penguin42> I've never used team viewer
[16:41] <X98Hacker> ok
[16:44] <arc__> ok here it is http://paste.ubuntu.com/6201405/
[16:45] <arc__> i pulled out the wire again to get back
[16:45] <arc__> to the internet
[16:47] <arc__> penguin have u read the paste yet
[16:47] <penguin42> sorry
[16:48] <arc__> sorry for what
[16:48] <penguin42> see that all looks good
[16:48] <arc__> but i cant get onto google !
[16:49] <penguin42> arc__: yeh, so start out with some more pings, can you ping <IP_ADDRESS> (i.e. localhost) or ping <IP_ADDRESS> ?
[16:50] <arc__> kk will plug in eht0 and try now
[16:53] <arc__> kk can ping <IP_ADDRESS> <IP_ADDRESS> <IP_ADDRESS> only
[16:54] <arc__> so my router  my laptop(which i am using) and my mac g5
[16:54] <arc__> i have pulled out my eth0 as well
[16:54] <arc__> form my laptop again
[16:55] <arc__> so what to do now penguin
[16:55] <penguin42> I don't see why that wouldn't work from the route -n/ifconfig you show - I could understand if there was a DNS/name problem - but I don't understand why you can't ping by IP
[16:56] <arc__> confusing :(
[16:57] <penguin42> arc__: Can you ping say <IP_ADDRESS> (one of the canonical webservers)
[16:57] <arc__> i will try
[16:57] <penguin42> I'm going to make some food - back in about 30mins
[16:58] <arc__> wait asec
[16:58] <arc__>  let me paste is
[16:59] <arc__> ok here it is http://paste.ubuntu.com/6201474/
[17:00] <arc__> daftykins: have a look at this for me http://paste.ubuntu.com/6201474/
[17:01] <daftykins> that's weird
[17:01] <arc__> yea it is weired
[17:02] <arc__> i had to unplug mt eth0 to get on to the internet
[17:04] <arc__> i am going to connect my eth0 again to see what my router logs say
[17:06] <arc__> kk says nothing
[17:07] <arc__> daftykins: U have any good ideas
[17:07] <arc__> afk going for a shower
[17:22] <arc__> i am back
[17:24] <daftykins> penguin42: would it be viable to hardcode /etc/network/interfaces with eth0 and let network manager handle the tether alone?
[17:26] <arc__> daftykins: penguin42 gone to eat
[17:26] <daftykins> yeah he'll see it when he returns though
[17:27]  * penguin42 rematerialises
[17:27] <arc__> oh yea :)
[17:27] <daftykins> i think it'd be wise not to do anything for now as it might undo what he's already had you do
[17:27] <daftykins> ah there you go (:
[17:28] <penguin42> daftykins: Yeh I think you can do some fixed in interfaces but am not sure - the thing which gets me is the 'operation not permitted' that's very odd
[17:28] <daftykins> yep i don't have a clue what'd cause that
[17:28] <daftykins> unless a parameter were set wrong
[17:29] <arc__> my router is a netgear wgu624
[17:29] <penguin42> daftykins: The only time I've seen ping give an operation not permitted is to send a broadcast ping, but I don't see how that address could be interepreted as a broadcast
[17:30] <penguin42> arc__: OK, here's an idea, go into network settings, select the ethernet connection and select ipv4 settings and untick the connect automatically, and set the method to 'Disabled'
[17:30] <penguin42> arc__: Then see if you can plug in the ether without it all blowing up
[17:31] <szymon_g> hi
[17:32] <arc__> ok pluged in and nothing has pop up
[17:32] <penguin42> arc__: Good
[17:32] <daftykins> szymon_g: greetings
[17:32] <penguin42> arc__: Now issue the following magic     ifconfig eth0 <IP_ADDRESS> netmask <IP_ADDRESS>
[17:32] <penguin42> arc__: then ifconfig eth0 up
[17:32] <szymon_g> i've installed ubuntu 13.10 beta 2, how can i remove hud (the one that is activated with the "alt" button) and put menu-bars back inside the windows (and not on the top panel)?
[17:33] <arc__> ok done
[17:34] <penguin42> arc__: Now, can you ping <IP_ADDRESS> ?
[17:34] <arc__> yes i can :)
[17:34] <Azelphur> Boffer are selling job lots of Nexus 7 2013 32GB, 2 for £277.98 (ex-vat) comes to £170 each with VAT and everything, killer deal baring in mind they are £240 from google
[17:34] <Azelphur> me and my friend just split the cost and bought 2
[17:34] <penguin42> arc__: OK, great
[17:35] <penguin42> arc__: Now, what you could try doing is going back to network settings, and setting it to connect automatically and connect automatically, then hit the add button and add the <IP_ADDRESS> there - then it will do it automatically for you
[17:35] <penguin42> arc__: There is a gotcha though
[17:36] <daftykins> szymon_g: have you tried in #ubuntu+1 ?
[17:36] <penguin42> arc__: since your computer isn't dhcp'ing any more your router won't know it's using <IP_ADDRESS> and it might give <IP_ADDRESS> to one of your other machines, so either you set all your wired machines manually, or you might be able to change the router config to have some that it doesn't hand out automatically
[17:37] <arc__> what methood
[17:37] <penguin42> arc__: So that depends on the GUI in the router
[17:38] <arc__> so i have clicked on connect auto now what
[17:38] <arc__> i can't hit the add button
[17:38] <penguin42> you set it to 'Manual'
[17:39] <penguin42> arc__: Connect automatically, Method: Manual
[17:39] <arc__> ok i hit add and typed <IP_ADDRESS> but there are 2 boxes un filled
[17:41] <penguin42> arc__: Netmask is <IP_ADDRESS>  leave the gateway empty
[17:42] <arc__> i clicked save and now say in a pop up connected
[17:43] <arc__> damm same result as last time i hit disconnect on the auto eth0
[17:44] <penguin42> arc__: OK, in that case sod it, set it back to manual  and that pair of ifconfig commands will do it, or you can manually set those in /etc/network/interfaces
[17:44] <arc__> now what
[17:44] <penguin42> arc__: BUT remember what I say about configuring your router
[17:45] <arc__> ok but what should i cong it to do
[17:46] <arc__> kk can login to my router
[17:46] <penguin42> arc__: It will have a section on DHCP, you can either turn it's dhcp off (so then you'll have to give each of your computers an address manually) or you can see the range of IPs it gives, maybe it gives <IP_ADDRESS>-<IP_ADDRESS> say, then you can give your ubuntu PC  something between <IP_ADDRESS>-<IP_ADDRESS>
[17:47] <penguin42> arc__: If you don't then your router might give <IP_ADDRESS> to your mac or something else at some random time
[17:48] <arc__> it says use router as dhcp and it is cheacked
[17:49] <penguin42> arc__: OK, so you could turn that off, but then you'll need to manually configure all your machines - or you can look if it has other DHCP options on there - some detail
[17:49] <arc__> ok add my laptop or device to the adress table as <IP_ADDRESS>
[17:50] <arc__> reservation table
[17:50] <penguin42> yeh that might do it
[17:50] <arc__> ok next step
[17:51] <daftykins> DHCP leases can be pretty unreliable
[17:51] <daftykins> but ah well
[17:51] <arc__> lol :)
[17:52] <arc__> are we at the file shareing bit yet
[17:53] <penguin42> arc__: Haha, well, can you ping the mac?
[17:53] <arc__> i will switch it on now
[17:55] <arc__> yea i can ping it
[17:55] <penguin42> good
[17:55] <arc__> yay its working
[17:56] <penguin42> wahey!
[17:56] <penguin42> I'd love to know why you get the permission problem on ping the way we had it
[17:56] <arc__> so now down to the file shareing problem
[17:56] <penguin42> does it still happen?
[17:57] <arc__> i am checking give me a sec plz
[17:58] <arc__> yea it says connection failed on the shared tab but it can see my device
[17:58] <arc__> i mean laptop
[17:58] <penguin42> ok, I've got no idea how the mac is trying to connect - does it say if it's samba/appleshare/ssh/ftp/mindreading
[17:59] <daftykins> :D
[17:59] <arc__> no lol
[17:59] <arc__> but it can ping my ubuntu laptop
[17:59] <penguin42> hmph that would be too easy
[18:00] <arc__> ok this is the tutoiral i used http://web.archive.org/web/20100719220308/http://blog.ibd.com/sysadmin/bonjour-avahi-netatalk-to-share-files-files-between-ubuntu-10-4-mac-os-x/
[18:00] <arc__> remember
[18:01] <penguin42> arc__: What confuses me about that is that it seems to have installed most of the planet, it's not clear to me which it's using
[18:02] <arc__> ok can u take me step by step on the best way to file share on mac and laptop
[18:02] <daftykins> samba might work :D
[18:02] <penguin42> arc__: http://www.macworld.com/article/2012153/eight-ways-to-connect-to-a-server.html
[18:02] <arc__> kk will have a look
[18:02] <penguin42> arc__: That suggests from the 'connect to server' you can specify the protocol - so try  smb://laptopname.local
[18:04] <arc__> kk will try that
[18:04] <penguin42> right, now to go and rescue my pudding that I put in the oven 30mins ago
[18:05] <arc__> kk but dont i have to install samba first
[18:05] <arc__> connection failed
[18:06] <daftykins> can you pastebin "netstat -tuln" from the ubuntu system?
[18:06] <arc__> kk wait a sec
[18:07] <arc__> here u go http://paste.ubuntu.com/6201757/
[18:08] <arc__> it look like it is only listen on port 22 on tcp6
[18:09] <daftykins> nah 22 is there, line 8
[18:09] <daftykins> but nah i was just curious what services would show up
[18:09] <daftykins> for smb you'd need samba installed and a share configured yep
[18:09] <daftykins> sudo apt-get install samba
[18:10] <arc__> got the newest ver already
[18:11] <daftykins> ok now you need to edit /etc/samba/smb.conf to set up a share
[18:12] <daftykins> you need the line "security = user" in there
[18:12] <arc__> wow that is a lot of text i will paste it to u and u can tell me what to do
[18:12] <daftykins> nah no need
[18:12] <arc__> where to put it in
[18:12] <daftykins> just find the security = user and make sure it's not commented out (i.e. no # in front of it)
[18:12] <arc__> ok uncommented
[18:12] <daftykins> it's under the heading "Authentication"
[18:13] <daftykins> ok now right at the end of the file, we need to setup a share
[18:13] <daftykins> so for example:
[18:13] <arc__> kk
[18:14] <daftykins> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6201781/
[18:14] <daftykins> there's a very basic one
[18:15] <arc__> so i could set path to any folder in my /home dir
[18:15] <daftykins> yep
[18:16] <daftykins> or technically anywhere on the file system, but then there'd be permissions hassle so it'd be easier to keep it inside /home/your username/
[18:16] <daftykins> you could set browsable = yes as well, that's fine on your own home network
[18:16] <arc__> kk saved and exited
[18:17] <daftykins> right, now run "sudo smbpasswd <your username> -a"
[18:17] <arc__> have to go but will use my phone irc client i am X98Hacker
[18:17] <daftykins> ok
[18:31] <penguin42> daftykins: It's kind of insane that you have to do that editing the config
[18:31] <daftykins> truth be told i should probably have said 'right click a folder and share it'
[18:32] <daftykins> my head is just in the default mode of pure-CLI headless server >_<
[18:32]  * popey is kinda addicted to Godus
[18:32]  * daftykins finds a video
[18:32] <MartijnVdS> popey: don't do it! :)
[18:34] <daftykins> seems like a common theme
[18:34] <X98Hacker> Hi penguin
[18:34] <penguin42> daftykins: Right, that's what I'd expected
[18:34] <penguin42> X98Hacker: Hey
[18:34] <X98Hacker> I am away from my setup
[18:35] <X98Hacker> But will be able to stuff at 9 or 11 o'clock
[18:36] <X98Hacker> So. In a nut shell how do I setup the samba share I m sure u saw what daftykins told me what to do
[18:37] <daftykins> hrmm i'm not sure whether it's worth undoing what i'd said already
[18:37] <penguin42> hey I haven't done samba for ages so do with daftykins stuff
[18:37] <daftykins> or just committing to it
[18:38] <X98Hacker> Kk
[18:39] <daftykins> X98Hacker: so run "sudo smbpasswd <your username> -a" and create a password the same as your user's password, for simplicity's sake
[18:39] <X98Hacker> Oh ok
[18:40] <X98Hacker> Afk
[18:46] <X98Hacker> I'm back
[18:46] <X98Hacker> Kk daftykins
[18:46] <X98Hacker> Will run it when I get back home
[18:48] <X98Hacker> But can I also create a share on my mac so ubuntu files can go on that
[18:50] <X98Hacker> Any ideas
[18:51] <daftykins> i've not really done any file sharing on macs
[18:52] <X98Hacker> Also penguin what about sharing from my mobile to my ubuntu laptop
[18:52] <X98Hacker> Via that router
[18:52] <penguin42> X98Hacker: hmm not sure how to share from a mobile via wifi
[18:53] <X98Hacker> Could I not connect by smb:// laptop.local on a mobile client
[18:54] <penguin42> X98Hacker: Yeh if you have a mobile smb client (do they exist?) a web browser is probably easier
[18:54] <X98Hacker> Yea. Oj
[18:54] <X98Hacker> Ok
[18:56] <X98Hacker> Oh what about the apache webserver I enabled on my mac how do I setup the apache server
[18:56] <penguin42> hey that's a Mac, you've just got to find the right button....
[18:57] <X98Hacker> Lol :)
[18:57] <X98Hacker> But isn't mac and linux based on unix
[18:57] <ali1234> linux is based on windows. but don't tell anyone i told you this.
[18:58] <X98Hacker> :D
[18:58] <daftykins> cat officially out of the bag
[18:58] <daftykins> i bet the BBC would write that.
[18:58] <X98Hacker> Yea
[18:59] <X98Hacker> Did anyone see citizen khan on Friday
[18:59] <daftykins> you might be better off using something like dropbox if you want to share pics from your phone to your PCs
[18:59] <daftykins> but since you seem to be tethering everything i'd fear for your data contract / mobile bill :D
[19:02] <X98Hacker> Hey unlimited data :D
[19:02] <X98Hacker> I am on 3
[19:02] <ali1234> if you want to get pics onto your computer use ubuntu one
[19:03] <X98Hacker> No it was just a file share I wanted and that was I got
[19:04] <X98Hacker> If I wanted a ftp server on my ubuntu laptop then what do I do just curious
[19:04] <daftykins> google for one and install it, i'd say
[19:04] <popey> !ftp
[19:04] <penguin42> X98Hacker: How much does that cost you and how much bandwidth do you actually get?
[19:04] <popey> !ftpd
[19:05]  * penguin42 would probably go for either proftpd or vsftpd
[19:05] <X98Hacker> 15 a month
[19:05] <X98Hacker> Oh ok
[19:07] <X98Hacker> If my WiFi just reached 10miles from my home then I could use team viewer
[19:07] <daftykins> haha, to do what?
[19:08] <daftykins> what's the main objective you're trying to achieve?
[19:08] <daftykins> you mention file sharing but, what files between which devices for what purposes? :)
[19:08] <X98Hacker> I am at a very loud Indian festival
[19:08] <daftykins> it might allow us to narrow down suitable things
[19:08] <penguin42> X98Hacker: If you've got a webserver that can do webdav then frankly that might be easier from a mobile
[19:09] <X98Hacker> Ok the files like backups and archive like I got whole load of ISO and software I want to archive
[19:10] <X98Hacker> I
[19:11] <X98Hacker> Actually I ended up putting files on my ubuntu laptop instead of my mac
[19:11] <X98Hacker> Sigh
[19:11] <X98Hacker> Nooooooooo
[19:13] <X98Hacker> But it doesn't matter now I will upgrade my laptop HDD to 1tb instead
[19:15] <X98Hacker> Penguin64: but I need to config the web server which is on my mac and no one knows how to use a mac
[19:15] <X98Hacker> Damm I ment penguin42
[19:17] <X98Hacker> Is there a good mac or OSX inc I can go to as well
[19:17] <X98Hacker> I mran irc
[19:30] <DJones> IT AIN'T NOVEMBER 5TH, PEOPLE LETTING FIREWORKS OFF NOW SHOULD HAVE THEM STUFFED UP THEIR JACKSIE ALONG WITH A A GALLON OF PETROL & TOLD TO TRY IT AGAIN NEXT YEAR
[19:31] <daftykins> wow, people starting near you already?
[19:31] <DJones> Yep
[19:32] <daftykins> now i live in town i wonder if i will be safe
[19:32] <X98Hacker> Most likely Indians
[19:32] <daftykins> might be some kind of town show though
[19:32] <DJones> Idiots fireing rockets towards people earlier
[19:32] <daftykins> D:
[19:32] <DJones> Going to start walking the dog with a baseball bat
[19:33] <X98Hacker> :D
[19:33] <DJones> Or maybe the lead weighted handle pool cue
[19:34] <daftykins> dog too old to learn a new trick? :)
[19:34] <daftykins> "get the firework guy boy, good boy!"
[19:35] <DJones> He's already learned, see firework, bite nuts of firework holder, just don't play fetch with them
[19:36] <daftykins> indeed, they are best buried to hide them from said holder
[19:36] <daftykins> and the fireworks too
[20:11] <X98Hacker> daftykins: I will be home soon so get ready to help plz eta 30mins
[20:11] <daftykins> haha
[20:11] <daftykins> may wanna address the channel, i might do food shortly
[20:16] <X98Hacker> Lol sorry but I need your expert knowledge
[20:44] <X98Hacker> Oam home
[20:50] <popey> hello X98Hacker
[20:57] <bigcalm> Good evening peeps :)
[20:58] <popey> YO!
[20:59] <popey> how was PHPNW?
[21:02] <bigcalm> Tiring and great
[21:02] <bigcalm> Very informative. I want a weekend off now
[21:11] <arc__> hey
[21:25] <X98Hacker> Help
[21:26] <X98Hacker> I can't thether my android to my ubuntu laptop it was worked an hour or 2 ago
[21:33] <X98Hacker>  hello
[21:34] <X98Hacker> i need help setting up samba so my mac can access my files on my ubuntu laptop
[21:34] <daftykins> i'm back after food now
[21:35] <X98Hacker> hey dafty
[21:35] <daftykins> so last time we were at you running "sudo smbpasswd <username> -a"
[21:35] <daftykins> then creating a password the same as your user's one
[21:35] <X98Hacker> yeap done that
[21:35] <daftykins> righty-o
[21:36] <daftykins> has that system been restarted since we edited smb.conf ?
[21:36] <X98Hacker> :D
[21:36] <X98Hacker> yes
[21:36] <daftykins> ok, from the mac you should be able to click Go -> Connector to Server from the Finder
[21:36] <daftykins> oops *Connect
[21:36] <X98Hacker> yes
[21:36] <daftykins> and enter smb://IP of ubuntu system/name of share
[21:37] <daftykins> it may think about it for a bit, then prompt you asking for a username + password
[21:37] <X98Hacker> so for me smb://<IP_ADDRESS>
[21:38] <daftykins> yep with /sharename
[21:38] <X98Hacker> how do i find my share name
[21:38] <daftykins> it was the text in the square braces [] in my example
[21:38] <daftykins> [share] i had it as, so /share :D
[21:38] <X98Hacker> oh so for me /home/arc/test
[21:39] <daftykins> nope it very specifically is smb://<IP_ADDRESS>/share
[21:40] <X98Hacker> ok so smb://<IP_ADDRESS>/share
[21:40] <daftykins> yep
[21:44] <X98Hacker> ok now it say invalid password or user name
[21:45] <X98Hacker> how do i add a user
[21:45] <daftykins> the user should already be the username of your account on the ubuntu system
[21:46] <daftykins> when you ran the command i mentioned in the terminal, it should have asked you to create a password by entering it twice
[21:56] <X98Hacker> kk done connected but when i try to put stuff in it vanishes and is not there
[21:57] <X98Hacker> i can't see it on the mac but it i can see it on the ubuntu share folder this is very anoying
[21:59] <X98Hacker> any one got ideas
[21:59] <X98Hacker> daftykins: any thought on this matter
[21:59] <daftykins> X98Hacker: how old is your mac? G5 did you say it is?
[22:00] <daftykins> can you right click refresh in the window view?
[22:00] <X98Hacker> i belive it is a 2004-2005
[22:01] <X98Hacker> i refreshed by f5 but no luck :(
[22:02] <daftykins> no updates for the OS i take it? i'm sure it's some ancient PPC thing
[22:02] <X98Hacker> yea
[22:02] <X98Hacker> but it still runs fast
[22:03] <daftykins> you could google i guess
[22:03] <daftykins> heh, probably from running out of date software ;)
[22:03] <X98Hacker> do you know of any mac irc on freenode
[22:03] <X98Hacker> or osx irc
[22:05] <daftykins> i can never remember them
[22:06] <X98Hacker> kk :)
[22:06] <X98Hacker> i will ask on #ubuntu
[22:08] <X98Hacker> i will ask on #freenode
[22:31] <shauno> I believe ppc support ended in 10.5, which was 2007-9.  not that it'll make a huge difference for this, because they never moved samba past <3.2
[22:32] <daftykins> :D
[22:32] <shauno> (samba 3.2 onwards is gplv3.  apple are alergic to v3)
[22:34] <daftykins> if he's still using that mac online it's probably safe purely from security through obscurity :<
[22:35] <shauno> probably.  as long as he doesn't have flash or java
[22:35] <daftykins> :D
[22:36] <shauno> both of which had a spotty history because apple tried to maintain their own builds, until they finally took enough flack for not keeping pace with them
[22:45] <ball> Oh dear. I just successfully installed a version of Ubuntu that is apparently quite old.
[22:45] <ball> Wrong disc.
[22:45] <daftykins> :D
[22:45] <daftykins> 8.x?
[22:45]  * ball checks
[22:45] <ball> 10.10, it says here.
[22:46] <ball> Let's try a different disc.
[22:46] <ball> brb
[23:18] <ball> There we go: 13.04.
[23:18] <ball> ...I notice there's a new launcher/dock thing down the left-hand side of the screen.
[23:20] <ball> Wow, that new Ubuntu menu thing is irritating.
[23:25] <daftykins> :D
[23:25] <daftykins> ball: how come you reinstalled so close to a new release coming out?
[23:27] <ball> daftykins: Is there a new release coming out? I had no idea. The two reasons I installed Ubuntu on this PC are a) our primary desktop PC failed and I don't have the parts to fix it yet and b) It's useful for me to have at least basic familiarity with a popular Linux desktop distribution.
[23:28] <ball> ...I dragged my daughter's PC into the study, shoved a spare hard disk in it and installed Ubuntu.
[23:28] <daftykins> :)
[23:28] <daftykins> yeah it's just 13.04 support drops in January
[23:28] <ball> I hope I have the other PC repaired before then.
[23:33] <ball> It gave me a good excuse to blow the cobwebs out of this one, double the RAM and reclaim my 500G SATA drive from it.
[23:34] <daftykins> :)
[23:34] <daftykins> how does 13.04 feel on it?
[23:34] <ball> Snappy enough, though I haven't tried playing video yet.
[23:35] <ball> Let's give YouTube a go.
[23:39] <ball> Full-screen is a bit much but it plays well enough in the window.
[23:39] <ball> Did I mention this machine has a dual-core 1.6 GHz Atom chip?
[23:40] <daftykins> oh wow
[23:40] <daftykins> so a glorified calculator
[23:40] <ball> It's more powerful than some of my other PCs.
[23:40] <ball> ;-)
[23:40] <daftykins> D:
[23:40] <ball> ...besides, if I put an SSD in it performance would probably be "adequate" ;-)
[23:41] <daftykins> sounds like you have a collection like penguin42
[23:41] <daftykins> yeah they definitely take the edge off
[23:42] <ball> Besides, for basic Web browsing this is sufficient.
[23:42] <daftykins> yeah
[23:42] <ball> My own PC has one less core, albeit clocked a bit faster
[23:43] <ball> cpu0 at mainbus0 apid 0: AMD Athlon(TM) XP 2800+, id 0x6a0
[23:43] <ball> ...and half the RAM at 1Gbyte.
[23:44] <ball> This one's maxed out at 2G
[23:44] <daftykins> :) i leave my parents dealing with an Athlon XP
[23:44] <ball> My mother has no use for a desktop PC, though her brother recently set her up with an Android tablet of some sort.
[23:45] <ball> Alright.  I have to get changed now to climb into the attic.
[23:45] <ball> Oh that's wierd: Firefox doesn't seem to have a Minimise button.
[23:45] <ball> (or "iconify")
[23:46] <ball> ...bute rminal does.
[23:46] <ball> but Terminal does*
[23:46] <ball> ...so that's an inconsistency.
[23:47] <daftykins> they appear when you hover over the top, no?
[23:49] <ball> No.
[23:50] <daftykins> ah. i don't even use desktop Linux in fairness
[23:51] <ball> daftykins: Do you use it mostly for servers?
[23:52] <daftykins> yeah
[23:52] <ball> Do you use Ubuntu for that?
[23:52] <daftykins> yep, typing from a server VM right now :)
[23:53] <ball> Last time I tries Ubuntu Server I was completely lost. At least one of my customers uses it though so I should probably look at that too at some point.
[23:55] <daftykins> yeah if you're happy at the command line, it's good
[23:56] <daftykins> i set myself the task of creating a webserver running wordpress long ago, it's pretty good fun
[23:57] <ball> brb


[21:42] <coz_>  good day to all
[21:42] <Ronnie> hey coz_
[21:42] <coz_> Ronnie,  hey guy
[21:45] <Ronnie> coz_: i created a mockup (http://ubuntuone.com/p/kvg/) for the packagning guide from dholbach http://daniel.holba.ch/temp/guide/index.html . are you an designer and have feedback for it?
[21:46] <coz_> Ronnie,  well I am artist.. if that is what you mean... and let me look hol on
[21:50] <coz_> Ronnie,  the layout looks nice,, :)
[21:50] <Ronnie> thx coz_ , any feedback on it?
[21:53] <coz_> Ronnie,  well,, other than its appearance,, the page layout,,  which is real nicely done,  the information looks correct,..  this is going to be the replacement for  the second link you linked ot?
[21:53] <Ronnie> yes, i hope so. i made the design, lets hope some 'coders' start working. some started already, but had no sense of styling
[21:55] <Ronnie> coz_: if you want i have another one for our local forum: http://ubuntuone.com/p/ZrY/ as a replacement of http://forum.ubuntu-nl.org/index.php
[21:55] <coz_> Ronnie,  comparing the two links,, yours is by far easy on the eyes...
[21:57] <Ronnie> coz_: its indeed an improvement, but it does not feel 'right/finished' yet, but running out of ideas
[21:59] <Ronnie> i had a lot of mockups for that page: http://wiki.ubuntu-nl.org/Artwork/Projecten/WebsiteTheme/Forum/FrontLayout but none of them is the way i want it to be
[21:59] <darkmatter> coz_: have you seen the new wip gnome site yet? it's fairly easy on the eyes and more inviting than the current piece of crap ;)
[21:59] <coz_> Ronnie,  the second set of links,, the original is in a list form and yours in  categories... yours again is much "easier" on the eyes,, than the original,,, not sure how much improvement can be made with lists like this,,  I may not have an idea at the moment,, ooo I like that thrid link  with the red bands
[21:59] <coz_> darkmatter,  no I h avent
[22:00] <coz_> Ronnie,  the one with the red bands titling the category is much nicer :)
[22:01] <Ronnie> the one with the 'non-round' corners?
[22:01] <darkmatter> coz_: its an early bit. but I'm liking the direction:
[22:01] <darkmatter> http://wptest.gnome.org/
[22:01] <coz_> Ronnie,  and would be nice with those tiny background dots
[22:01] <coz_> Ronnie,  no  this one  http://wiki.ubuntu-nl.org/Artwork/Projecten/WebsiteTheme/Forum/FrontLayout
[22:02] <coz_> darkmatter,  huh!  I didnt even het a hint about this site  ,,,, nice
[22:02] <Ronnie> somehow the round corners feel 'constrained' to me. like the title it 'locked-up'
[22:02] <coz_> Ronnie,  then go with your feel of it
[22:02] <coz_> Ronnie,   I didnt see the one with squared corners though
[22:03] <darkmatter> coz_: yup. obviously far from done, but it's friendly and seems to suit gnome quite well
[22:03] <coz_> Ronnie,   you mean this one ?  http://ubuntuone.com/p/ZrY/
[22:03] <Ronnie> coz_: scroll down a bit on the last link. there are much more mockups
[22:03] <Ronnie> http://wiki.ubuntu-nl.org/Artwork/Projecten/WebsiteTheme/Forum/FrontLayout
[22:04] <coz_> Ronnie,  you're right !  I do prefer the sqared corners
[22:04] <coz_> let me stare at these  a bit :)
[22:08] <coz_> Ronnie,  well.. not sure now,,, the one with sqare corners is layed out symetrically,,, each category about the same veritical height,, the one with rounded corners looks a bit off  with the "Teams"  category being wider.. it isthrowing the symetry off,, the squared corners are "clean" looking..and seems more of a "separator"  for the categories,  the rounded edges seem more of a "title bar" or topic heading...not sure now which I like  :)
[22:09] <coz_> Ronnie,  I would have to see that "red header"  as on the second one with the square edges   put on the rounded edge mockup..  this is going to be your call in the end  :)
[22:10] <coz_> darkmatter,  oo  I am liking the simplicity of that one theme I am looking at :)
[22:10] <coz_> darkmatter,    http://wptest.gnome.org/gnome-3/
[22:12] <coz_> Ronnie,  but the header on all of the ones you showed have squared edges,, so maybe that is the best  ?
[22:12] <Ronnie> im not sure, ill try to make a round corner variant of the 2nd
[22:12] <darkmatter> coz_yes. adwaita is nice save for _1_ little problem. it's freaking huge. mentioned that to aday earlier (on how gigantic widgets and toolbers are actually detrimental to accessibility and usability. along with one or two small non-theme bits in 3). he said most of it is a bug
[22:13] <coz_> Ronnie,  is the header a different orange than the category bars?
[22:13] <coz_> darkmatter,  oh damn!.. why so huge?
[22:14] <coz_> m gnome 3  still not quite ready in ubuntu !?!
[22:15] <Ronnie> round corners is possible: dont know which is better, both are good i think: http://ubuntuone.com/p/l4H/
[22:15] <Ronnie> the orange is supposed to be the same. i guess the header has some sort of tranparant white layer above it
[22:16] <coz_> Ronnie,  that's nice :)  only one category header is rounded
[22:16] <Ronnie> yes, so we can compare better
[22:16] <coz_> Ronnie,  well I actually like the first one being rounded and the others squared :)
[22:17] <coz_> Ronnie,  that would definitly be your call though
[22:17] <darkmatter> coz_: an example: epiphany with menubar/toolbar has the same chrome height as firefox with menubar/toolbar/bookmarks bar _and_ tabs in current gen themes. that a 2x size ratio (approximately). and its consistent throughout the theme
[22:17] <darkmatter> not sure the overall rational. I know part of it is just theme bugs. and it wouldn't be so bad if the ui elements scaled with text. the default font is pretty big, if you select _small_ in accessibility (small is around 8pt or so) the ui doesn't changfe. so i makes it seem even bigger
[22:17] <darkmatter> small font. huge widgets :P
[22:18] <coz_> darkmatter,  it doens scale with text??
[22:18] <darkmatter> coz_: or another example of the scale of the theme. nautilus preferences dialog is approx 620 pixels in height. lol
[22:19] <Ronnie> i even think it will be a total rewrite. i can do better if i have inspiration. other pages worked out well (http://ubuntuone.com/p/ezu/ (different site) and http://ubuntuone.com/p/ZrX/)
[22:20] <darkmatter> coz_: nope. I dunno if its a limitation of the theme  itself, a gtk+3 bug, or other (haven't checked, lol) but what you see for dimensions and padding is what you get
[22:21] <coz_> Ronnie,   these are all very nice  guy :).. I am flipping quickly between the variations.. as if I just went to the sites ,, switching back and forth,,  it seems I am with you on the squared edges...
[22:21] <darkmatter> coz_: http://blogs.gnome.org/cosimoc/files/2011/03/scr1.png
[22:21] <darkmatter> http://blogs.gnome.org/cosimoc/files/2011/03/scr2.png
[22:22] <darkmatter> it's only _slightly_ obese.
[22:22] <darkmatter> lol
[22:22] <coz_> :)
[22:22] <coz_> darkmatter,  what is the mixing of png  svg  there?
[22:23] <darkmatter> coz_: the mockups he was using as reference for realizing the theme
[22:23] <coz_> ah
[22:23] <Ronnie> coz_: thx for thinking with me. if i have more (better) mockups ill be back for sure
[22:23] <coz_> darkmatter,  is the final in svg ?
[22:24] <darkmatter> coz_: can't complain about the look. it's no worse than a mac or a windows box, but damn. I need to sit 6 feet from my display xD
[22:24] <coz_> Ronnie,  I would really like to see them :)  these are quite nice,,,
[22:25] <coz_> darkmatter,  oh!!!  wow
[22:25] <darkmatter> coz_: umm... it's mostly css iirc. I'll check in a bit. dling the latest live build atm, then burning and rebooting from cd to play around a bit
[22:25] <coz_> darkmatter,  i would like to see a theme done solely in svg
[22:25] <Ronnie> 16th april we have a 'late' ubuntu jam with a lot non-tech persons. Hope we can work on this theme :)
[22:25] <coz_> Ronnie,  cool :)
[22:27] <coz_> darkmatter,  I realize svg  can  be somewhat more resource intensive,, although  I am not sure how much more it would be in a theme or how "slow / bloated"  it would feel
[22:27] <coz_> darkmatter,  I have to say,, that theme is very minimal and "Clear"
[22:27] <coz_> sharp,,, easy looking
[22:28] <darkmatter> coz_: but of course, you can tell its a fat theme from the nautilus screenie I linked. but its pretty nice. and clutter has finally restablized. so the shell runs again (and its lightning fast compared to gnome2 (at least judging by the speed of running live and vm)
[22:28] <coz_> doesnt interfere with work,, although the "grey"  / "gray"  I'm not sure about
[22:28] <coz_> if it came in colors..rather different values of gray maybe
[22:29] <coz_> darkmatter,  I lke how this "fits the eye"  http://blogs.gnome.org/cosimoc/files/2011/03/scr2.png
[22:29] <coz_> darkmatter,  very clean
[22:29] <coz_> my eye is directed to the list of options and not the theme
[22:29] <darkmatter> coz_: yeah. svg would be nice, but has (really, not joking) fairly crappy support in linux
[22:30] <darkmatter> not just heavier resource usage, but renders somewhat poorly at the ui level
[22:30] <coz_> darkmatter,  really?  wow I didnt realize that!
[22:30] <coz_> darkmatter,  that's a disapointment
[22:31] <darkmatter> yeah
[22:32] <coz_> darkmatter,   on all platforms..however, svg is far more resource intensive  for sure,,
[22:32] <coz_> darkmatter,  text to image   I suppose is the reason
[22:33] <coz_> the calculations
[22:33] <coz_> and then that is still rendered in bit map in the end if I am not mistaken
[22:33] <darkmatter> coz_: aye. though surprisingly svg is pretty snappy on, dare I say i? dare I make you long for... *gasp*... yellow... TABS? :O
[22:34] <coz_> lol
[22:34] <coz_> oh  how I love window tabs :)
[22:34] <coz_> that expance with test
[22:34] <coz_> expand
[22:37] <darkmatter> coz_: yup. but seriously, I thing the Be family (I'm saying family because of offshoots and cloning) had/have superior libraries for that. (not that I've actually compared mind you). yellow tabbiness was always about keeping things simple
[22:37] <darkmatter> I mean, it only took one guy 4 hours to write the ui toolkit xD
[22:38] <coz_> wow
[22:38] <coz_> darkmatter,  yes ,, BeOs  had a real nice way of dealing with these things... very well done.. certainly fast and clean
[22:39] <darkmatter> coz_: it was written for performance after all. I mean, time travel with me and remember the insane level of multitasking it endured
[22:39] <coz_> darkmatter,  I definitly remember
[22:39] <coz_> darkmatter,  and on low end systems no less
[22:39] <darkmatter> not just media centric, but media _heavy_
[22:40] <coz_> darkmatter,  smspillaz   also is a BeOs , Haiku fan,, we talked about the possible porting of compiz to haiku lol
[22:40] <darkmatter> hehe
[22:40] <coz_> darkmatter,  i would switch tomorrow if that happened :)
[22:41] <coz_> except for damn java implimentation,, Be never did have that but it was way back when ,, I guess
[22:41] <darkmatter> coz_: yup. the only thing I disliked about haiku was it's quest for binary compatibility... slows progress imo. but now they're caring less about '90s apps. more about modernizing it
[22:42] <darkmatter> finally has a browser, and webkit based no less
[22:42] <coz_> darkmatter,  oo  I suppose that's good
[22:42] <coz_> darkmatter,  too bad the  BE people screwed things up..seriously,,, I would have never come to Ubuntu
[22:44] <darkmatter> coz_: still doing it with a Be mentality, but at least they're aming for progress.
[22:44] <darkmatter> the whole legacy thing is also what held amiga back (os 4 is like os 2 with better theming :P)
[22:45] <darkmatter> yay. daily gnome3 finished downloading!
[22:46] <coz_> nature call...be back in a bit
[22:50] <darkmatter> coz_: check the conf-editor icon http://people.gnome.org/~jclinton/gnome3_screenshots/app_list.png
[22:50] <darkmatter> actually, most of them are getting like that. crayola isn't what it used to be ;)
[22:52] <darkmatter> I still dislike the style at smaller sizes, but the highres is nice.
[22:52] <darkmatter> except for the fact that I loath empathy's new icon ;)
[22:52] <coz_> darkmatter,  nice and all,, but in all honesty ,, I am not a fan of netbook stuff
[22:53] <coz_> its too claustrophobic
[22:53] <coz_> rather  clostrophobic
[22:54] <darkmatter> coz_yeah. me neither.
[22:54] <darkmatter> I was just referencing the icons
[22:54] <darkmatter> but I'd definitely change metaphors for a lot of stuff
[22:54] <darkmatter> like a message in a bottl for messaging instead of a speech balloon with a smilie. lol
[22:55] <darkmatter> you know. more human metaphors, less artifical
[22:56] <coz_> darkmatter,  for sure,, I would like some things to get beyong the "kids' view
[22:59] <darkmatter> coz_: or make traditional metaphors more *fun*. like that friggin steel filing cabinet. make it a) wooden b) open drawer, slighlty messy c) a small mess of papers or whatnot scattered at its base
[22:59] <coz_> darkmatter,  one day it will all mature,, at that point we will be " oh man I miss the days  when ... "  lol
[22:59] <darkmatter> or inside jokes. like a slice of burnt toast for brasero. that or a drink coaster :P
[23:00] <darkmatter> coz_: but you get what I mean
[23:00] <coz_> darkmatter,  sure go :)  but they can keep brasero.. I dont like it
[23:00] <coz_> let them do what they want with it
[23:01] <coz_> darkmatter,  rather " sure do "
[23:03] <darkmatter> coz_: the environment as a whole (and not just specific to gnome) is far too artificial
[23:03] <darkmatter> everything feels like plastic. lol
[23:03] <coz_> oh y eah,, that's it , make a statement and  leave !! lol
[23:04] <coz_> darkmatter,  oh yeah that's it,, ,make a statement then leave  :)
[23:04] <darkmatter> coz_: haha. server hating me doesn't equate to leaving :P
[23:05] <coz_> darkmatter,   :)
[23:13] <coz_> ok I have to break here,,  enough irc for now


 @tsimonq2 answer wxl and kc2bez?
[00:08] <tsimonq2> on the list lol
[00:08] <tsimonq2> But yeah, probably Phorge.
[00:08] <tsimonq2> Use notes as a stopgap.
[00:32] <tsimonq2> New cala and cala-ubu-settings landing soon. Many kittens shall perish.
 Except for src:kitty, that shall remain. :P
 I'll admit, that cala upload was very opportunistic
 src:kitty, wrm:kitty, little ball of furrrr.... 🎶
 LMAO
[00:37] <arraybolt3> You uploaded alpha5?
 6
[00:38] <arraybolt3> (seems like a good idea imo)
[00:38] <arraybolt3> Oh wow
 I'm worried about testing every module that uses python, but in my testing so far it works
 I will also really like that asynchronous job support to land this release
 I'm off for Thanksgiving today :)
 Enjoy the holiday!
 Same to all who celebrate :)
[13:46] <LimeOn> Happy thanksgiving day! Currently listening the interviews ^^
 Nice :D happy Thanksgiving to you to LimeOn
 interviews @tsimonq2 well done!!
 Thank you!! (re @Leokolb: interviews @tsimonq2 well done!!)
[17:04] <arraybolt3> tsimonq2: Glad you're getting a break :) Happy Thanksgiving to you (and to everyone here) also!
[19:05] <arraybolt3> redshift-qt has been added to the Backports Staging repositories.
[19:05] <arraybolt3> Also it appears to have gotten accepted into Debian just a bit ago.
[19:08] <arraybolt3> I wasn't quite sure what our policies were behind tagging and versions for backports/mantic, so I just used the exact same versions as I would have used for backports/jammy since that's what it looked like we were doing there already, and I made the tag "backports-mantic/version".
[19:09] <arraybolt3> If that was wrong, as they say, "Versions Are Cheap," and thankfully tags can always be overwritten.
 Good work Aaron and by the way ..thanks for the endorsement😊 (re @lubuntu_bot: (irc) <arraybolt3> If that was wrong, as they say, "Versions Are Cheap," and thankfully tags can always be overwritten.)
[19:22] <arraybolt3> Leokolb: Thanks, and of course :) I love working with you huys.


[19:15] <rzyz85fr> hello, we bought an panel PC working with ubuntu-arm. We want to develop c++/arm program on it, what is way to go?
[19:18] <rzyz85fr> idealy, i thinking about on my dev host: dpkg add architecure, then add arch=armhf to sources.list, then install gcc-arm binutils-arm, than libqt4-dev:armhf, then i use qtCreator with the good gcc and qmake. is it the good way?


[11:24] <beppo> hello anyone here?
[11:24] <beppo> :)
[11:24] <beppo> how can i add to smbd.conf that it should start after network interface is started
[11:59] <twb> Does upstart log anywhere (e.g. netconsole) when and what events it receives?
[12:00] <twb> I'm netbooting Ubuntu 10.04 and for some reason the secondary (read-write) NFS mounts on /home and /srv are never mounted.
[12:02] <twb> Also, how can I get a directed graph of how events are generated and what responds to them?
[12:02] <twb> It's a lot harder to see the boot order than a simple rcS.d
[12:12] <soren> twb: I don't think such a tool exists.
[12:13] <soren> twb: Also, an upstart job can specify which events it might emit, but it's purely informational. It can emit other ones and never emit the ones it claimed it might.
[12:14] <soren> twb: ...so any automatically generated graphs of events can't possibly be guaranteed to be accurate.
[12:21] <twb> I only want a rough approximation, and/or a tracing of *a* real boot
[12:21] <twb> I don't expect it to be perfect
[12:40] <twb> Is $PATH guaranteed to be a particular value in upstart scripts (i.e. within sh embedded in /etc/init/foo.conf files)?
[12:42] <twb> Why does statd.conf's pre-start script say "start portmap || true"?  Are scripts invoked with sh -e?
[13:15] <twb> Christ, this is confusing.
[13:15] <twb> Where does $UPSTART_STOP_EVENTS come from, for example?
[13:15] <twb> mountall-shell.conf checks its value without ever setting it
[13:17] <ion> PATH is predefined IIRC. -e is on by default, as init(5) says. UPSTART_STOP_EVENTS is documented in there as well.
[13:20] <twb> Hum, I'll read that manpage.
[13:20] <twb> init(8) talks about /etc/init.conf, but it doesn't exist and there's not init.conf manpage.
[13:20] <twb> s/not/no/
[14:48] <twb> Does upstart detect cycles in the event-wait dependency graph?
[14:48] <twb> e.g. in the simplest case, foo.conf has "start on bar", and bar.conf has "start on foo"
[14:49] <ion> There’s nothing wrong with tht.
[14:49] <twb> Well, I suppose not, if you assume the user can get into the system and run "start foo" by then
[14:52] <ion> To be more accurate, foo.conf: “start on started bar”, bar.conf: “start on started foo” should work just fine. It just ensures both are running whenever either one is. s/started/starting/ may cause neither to be able to start.
[14:53] <mbiebl> twb: have you tried the --verbose boot parameter?
[14:54] <twb> Hum, "--verbose"?  Not "verbose"?
[14:57] <mbiebl> twb: so, apparently you haven't :-)
[14:57] <mbiebl> yes, it is --verbose
[14:58] <mbiebl> see also man 7 upstart
[14:58] <twb> Yeah, that's exactly what I wanted
[14:58] <twb> Will that get dumped to netconsole?  /me tries
[15:18] <twb> Well, it probably would, if I could get netconsole.ko to load properly from the ramdisk :-/
[15:24] <twb> Nope, upstart --verbose output never hits netconsole, so I have no way to get a dump of it short of transcribing the last few lines that are left on the screen.


[08:25] <Zedde> Hello Anyone here that knows where how I can get in contact with  Pedrom ?
[08:26] <Zedde> it's about the LiveCD/Persistence artical
[11:32] <mdke> Zedde: generally, searching at http://launchpad.net/people is the best option
[20:56] <ubotu> New bug: #211915 in amavisd-new "Insecure dependency when using sql for Log Reporting" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/211915
[22:10] <Zedde> mdke: thanks