[00:52] <jaafar> hi folks.  Since I upgraded to 10.10 my taskbar has been half black background, half gray.  Transition point occurs midway through one of the task buttons, maybe 60% of the way from the left side of the screen.  Is this by design? It looks strange.
[00:54] <Guest73042> say me please russian kubuntu channel
[01:05] <Guest73042> who can help me? I have some problems with plasmoids, servicemenus, kdm themes and splashscreens
[01:08] <Guest73042> anybody home? ^)
[01:16] <jaafar> Gues73042: perhaps it would be best to post a specific question.  Then people who know may answer.
[01:16] <jaafar> make that "Guest73042"
[01:20] <Guest73042> i cant install servicemenus, splashscreens, kde themes, plasmoids. I click "install" and a button "delete" but the list is nothing new there.
[01:40] <gsteinert> evening all. ive been having a problem with my 10.10 install. it seems that every time i try to interact with a kde program, the X server jumps to 100% CPU usage and interaction is VERY slow
[01:42] <gsteinert> using oprofile, i have discovered that this seems to be due to the nvidia driver i have installed (i shall check fro  verion in a moment)
[01:42] <gsteinert> i had this issue in 10.04 and it made me downgrade back to 9.10, but its only just presented itself thsi badly
[01:43] <gsteinert> gnome programs and chromium work absolutely fine
[01:43] <gsteinert> anyone experiencing similar problems?
[01:46] <junfan> Anyone know how to get multiple icon rows in the plasma panel? I've seen screenshots not using a launcher to do it and found  mail list messages with people saying it works, but for the life of me can't figure it out.
[02:00] <FloridaGuy>  i did ( do-release-upgrade -d )   there at the end it said 26 package need remove... to continue ( Y ) ( N ) or ( D ) for details...so i hit ( D ) to see what packages were being removed..and it wouldent let me get back to press ( Y ) to continue...so now if i do (do-release-upgrade -d ) i get no new release found...so its not leting me finsh the job...and sudo apt-get upgrade...finds nothing.....so i do i make it finsh the job....??
[02:10] <FloridaGuy> i did ( do-release-upgrade -d )   there at the end it said 26 package need remove... to continue ( Y ) ( N ) or ( D ) for details...so i hit ( D ) to see what packages were being removed..and it wouldent let me get back to press ( Y ) to continue...so now if i do (do-release-upgrade -d ) i get no new release found...so its not leting me finsh the job...and sudo apt-get upgrade...finds nothing.....so i do i make it finsh the job....??
[02:55] <jf_> hi
[02:56] <jf_> on booting kubuntu I get 'failed to load i915 symbols, graphics turbo disabled on boot', and until kdm starts, it stays in text mode
[02:57] <jf_> I'm on 10.10 and it's a thinkpad t510 with an nvidia quadro card
[02:57] <jf_> could I get it to do a graphical boot?
[02:58] <e_t_> jf_: Check this out: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/651104
[02:59] <e_t_> There's a partial solution in the comments toward the end. It worked for me.
[03:00] <jf_> thanks very much!
[03:10] <cato37> hello. is there a way to change rekonq so that there is a separate address and search bar?
[03:12] <cato37> !rekonq
[04:19] <abbyschuto> grr wifi on xfce is giving me fits
[04:21] <abbyschuto> ok older laptop w/ a 43xx brodcom internal wifi card. any suggestions?
[04:30] <abbyschuto> ok what rots my soxs is some of the manpages are so out of date.
[04:57] <jf_> hi, I'm trying to access a windows share via smb:// in dolphin, but it asks for a username and password, the shares are set to not be password protected though (and can work fine from a windows computer), if I mount it with 'mount -t cifs' it also asks for a password but I can just enter anything and it mounts
[04:57] <jf_> how can I get smb:// to work in dolphin? if I don't enter anything the dialog just pops up again
[05:08] <abbyschuto> god i  can remember back in the 90's when the linux irc chans were active. Crap load of people and no one is home
[05:18] <Spaztic_One> when changing the background, some of the effects on the widgets (kde micro blog) still have the effects from the stock background ethais. How can I either change them or get rid of them entirely?
[05:42] <seawing> I am running 9.04 64 and have run out of room on my hard drive while downloading something.  When I got the noticce I deleted some unesisary items and noticed that no mater how much I deleted, it still said I had 0% space left.  I restarted and now I can't log in.  I can view my files using a live disk, but I can't even log in in safe mode.  can anyone help?
[06:04] <seawing> Am I logged in correctly? hello?
[06:05] <Spaztic_One> You're here
[06:06] <Spaztic_One> Just not a great many people here (actively) and if nobody knows the answer, then nobody is likely to say anything.
[06:16] <seawing> thank you. I'll check back later. :)
[07:06] <ggeorgy> hi  :)
[07:17] <ggeorgy> do you know a way to increase volume in a video file ???
[07:18] <ggeorgy> like this http://www.coolutils.com/blog/increase-volume-in-video-files/ but is for windows
[07:20] <ggeorgy> ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
[07:44] <silv3r_m00n> hi there
[08:38] <ggeorgy> can you help me with my problem???
[08:39] <ggeorgy> i have some video for my phone but the sound is too low
[08:41] <ggeorgy> can you reply to my question??please
[08:42] <ggeorgy> ???????????????????????????????????
[08:43] <ggeorgy> ???
[08:44] <ggeorgy> ??
[08:44] <ggeorgy> ?
[08:47] <ggeorgy>  :(
[08:49] <xgalactiaboyx> i have a computer with 480mb of ram, 20g hard drive with onboard graphics, not a graphics card and a pentium 4 processor, will Kubuntu 10.10 run properly on my system?
[08:50] <valorie> xgalactiaboyx: there is one sure way to find out
[08:51] <valorie> burn a liveCD and try it out
[08:51] <valorie> if you like it, install it
[08:51] <valorie> if not, you're out the time to download and burn to a CD or USB stick
[08:52] <xgalactiaboyx> well the reason I am asking is I am tires of switchin operating systems to find this stuff out, i am almost fed up with it! lol I have linux mint 9 and the help forums are terrible and extremely rude, i love ubuntu and kubuntu and the help forums are awesome, but i was just wondering if that at least met the mimimum system requrements for kubuntu
[08:53] <valorie> I'm sure the 10.10 page on kubuntu.org has that information
[08:53] <valorie> I don't know off the top of my head
[08:53] <xgalactiaboyx> i am looking but i cannot find it anywhere
[08:54] <valorie> but on the other hand, the minimum requirements might not be "good" for you
[08:54] <valorie> that's rather subjective
[08:56] <starkiller> holaaaaaaaaaaaaa
[08:56] <starkiller> hackers
[08:56] <valorie> hmmm, I don't really see a minimum requirement anywhere
[08:57] <valorie> how old is your computer, and what is mint 9 based on?
[08:57] <valorie> I know it's an older ubuntu
[08:57] <xgalactiaboyx> Linux Mint 9 is Based on Ubuntu
[08:58] <xgalactiaboyx> umm give me a sec and ill find what version
[08:58] <valorie> if it's 10.04, and your computer is less than 5 years old, I can't see why you wouldn't be able to upgrade
[08:58] <valorie> right, I knew it was based on ubuntu
[08:58] <starkiller> hii
[08:59] <xgalactiaboyx> Linux Mint 9 is based off of Ubuntu Lucid Lynx
[09:00] <valorie> ok, that's 10.04
[09:01] <valorie> and if you are running fine now, you should be good
[09:01] <xgalactiaboyx> well i guess i am coning to Ubuntu then I will see the ubuntu help forums here in a few minutes when it is installed
[09:01] <xgalactiaboyx> haha thank you so much for you help
[09:01] <valorie> but as I say, doesn't take you more than a few mins to burn a CD or USB key
[09:01] <xgalactiaboyx> see this place is soo much better than linux mint
[09:01] <valorie> and be sure
[09:01] <valorie> :-)
[09:01] <xgalactiaboyx> BE PROUD UBUNTU USERS, YOU ARE THE BEST!
[09:01] <valorie> we like it here!
[09:02] <valorie> and we try to make it friendly and helpful
[09:02] <xgalactiaboyx> and what a wonderful job you do
[09:03] <valorie> heh -- I'm the least technical person here, I think
[09:03] <xgalactiaboyx> haha
[09:03] <valorie> !minimum
[09:04] <xgalactiaboyx> hehe well thanks im off to intall ubuntu now
[09:04] <valorie> too bad, our bot knows lots that I don't....
[09:11] <Hedron> Hi everybody, I have a problem with KMail
[09:11] <Hedron> whenever I copy-paste something with it, I get html code instead of the text I selected
[09:11] <Hedron> is there a way to fix this
[09:16] <valorie> sheesh!
[09:20] <GenCustard> hello all, just installed LAMP .. is there an equivalent to IIS for Apache server or the fact I'm not on Ubuntu server limits my server to running just one website?
[09:22] <valorie> GenCustard: (love the nick, btw) - sounds like #httpd might have your answers
[09:22] <valorie> since no one here is answering
[09:23] <valorie> this is a rather slow time in this chan
[09:26] <Kolia> GenCustard: what? no it should not limit anything
[10:12] <ryrych> good morning :)
[10:13] <ryrych> have you experienced freezes using Akregator with WekKit Kpart?
[10:30] <ubuntu> hi, I just booted kubuntu live from a usb stick on my notebook, but the wireless doesn't work, what can I do?
[10:32] <jtheuer__> ask google if your driver should be supported. then, check if the hardware is enabled (kill switch, bios, ..)
[10:33] <ubuntu> I have 07:00.0 Network controller: Realtek Semiconductor Co., Ltd. Device 8176 (rev 01)
[10:34] <ubuntu> 07:00.0 Network controller: Realtek Semiconductor Co., Ltd. Device 8176 (rev 01)
[10:34] <jtheuer__> i'm not google
[10:34] <ubuntu_> hello
[10:35] <jtheuer__> and, I guess that is an ethernet card, not a wifi
[10:35] <ubuntu> might be
[10:35] <ubuntu> where do I see which wifi card I have/
[10:35] <jtheuer__> then, plug-in a cable
[10:35] <ubuntu> ?
[10:35] <ubuntu> I have a cable pkugged in now
[10:50] <ubuntu> hi, I just booted kubuntu live from a usb stick on my notebook, but the wireless doesn't work, what can I do?
[11:15] <alan__> hi all, i'm a newbie with Ubuntu, but getting to like it
[12:28] <HandyGandy> Hey now that I got kde to work, my desktop  seems to either go to sleep or hibernate if I leave it alone enough. How do I stop that?
[12:46] <morticum> hi, is there any way to set the number of lines scrolled by the TOUCHPAD
[12:46] <morticum> (not the mouse)
[12:47] <morticum> the settings between the mouse scroll wheel and the touchpad appear to be independent
[12:47] <morticum> which wouldn't be so odd if there were independent settings for the touchpad...but I can't find any. I can't even find anything in synclient.
[13:33] <groots> thanks for yours congratulations
[13:33] <groots> but i'm many questions for you
[13:35] <groots> can i receive answers to you?
[14:09] <BluesKaj> Hiyas all
[14:12] <santhust> hi
[14:13] <freinhard> usb-creator-kde can't handle non-ubuntu liveCDs?
[14:15] <BluesKaj> freinhard, pls explian in more detail
[14:16] <freinhard> start usb-creator-kde, click on the button for adding iso images, choose some opensuse image, nothing happens, no warning no error no nothing
[14:17] <rork> freinhard: that is correct
[14:18] <rork> freinhard: you can use unetbootin for opensuse, it's available in the repositories
[14:19] <freinhard> anyways, some errormessage would be nice
[14:20]  * freinhard goes reporting a bug
[14:21] <BluesKaj> freinhard, from the description ,usb-creator-kde is for creating a startup disk : "Startup Disk Creator converts a USB key or SD card into a volume from which you can start up and run Ubuntu." , obviously not meant to run opensuse
[14:22] <freinhard> BluesKaj: failing silently is bad practise anyways
[14:23] <freinhard> besides, i guess usb-creator-kde does the same as dd=some.iso of=/dev/sd<xyz> + some magic and there i can't see, why it's limited to *buntu images
[14:25] <BluesKaj> freinhard, the description also says "The program also works for Debian, or any other Debian-based OS for which you have a CD or .iso image.
[14:25] <BluesKaj> so opensuse isn't gonna work :)
[14:27] <freinhard> BluesKaj: i don't care if it's ever gonna work, but i care about that nonexistent message telling me that it's never gonna work
[14:29] <BluesKaj> freinhard, well, reading about an application to find out how and what it will work with is probly good practice too.
[14:31] <eldowan> I've installed kubuntu 10.10 on a machine at home, and really dislike kde4. I've ben using kde3.5 for years and it fits my workflow nicely. Is there a way to install kde3 in my 10.10 install, hopefully alongside kde4 so I have access to the newer apps as well, if need be?
[14:33] <BluesKaj> !kde3 | eldowan
[14:35] <eldowan> Thanks BluesKaj, I'll check that out, and if that's not what I'm after I may see if someone maintains a version of kde3 that will install parallel to 4.
[14:37] <BluesKaj> eldowan, my experience with the earlier kde4 versions was disappointing , but after 4.3 the apps are much more stable except for kontact /kmail  it's a mess , still ..so I dumped it
[14:38] <eldowan> I installed 10 here, and also tried debian squeeze, hoping it was just kubuntu's flavor of kde. I dislike the fundamental operating methods of the new kde. Maybe I just need a few months to figure it out, but it doesn't seem nearly as customizable as 3
[14:41] <BluesKaj> eldowan, right ..one can always check out the #kde channel ...they aren't biased agiinst kde3 users :)
[14:41] <eldowan> heh. true
[14:42] <eldowan> Thanks for the tips and help though. although I am slow to get with the changes, it's nice to see someone helping.
[14:45] <BluesKaj> eldowan, the work environment is too important to experiment with changes , but kde4 is definitely mature enough for now (other than kmail IMO)
[14:46] <BluesKaj> err to use now ..getting ahead of myself
[15:00] <BluesKaj> hmm I just updated on natty and openoffice is bring removed in favour of libreoffice , not that I use office suites much , but it's an interesting development nontheless
[15:18] <rtdos> how do i totally remove and purge the gnome / ubuntu desktop ? i checked kpackagekit and synaptic and even ran "sudo apt-get remove --purge" for gnome-desktop environment and ubuntu-desktop and i still have gnome / ubuntu installed (but the system says I do not)?
[15:20] <rork> !purekde | rtdos
[15:22] <rork> ubuntu-desktop is a !metapackage, its dependencies aren't removed when you remove it
[15:28] <rtdos> rork: it only lists upto ubuntu 9.10 - will it work with 10.10 ?
[15:30] <rork> rtdos: http://www.psychocats.net/ubuntu/purekde feel free to add them to the wiki ;)
[15:30] <rtdos> thanks, rork. :)
[15:31] <rtdos> i was about ready to try the 9.10 but this looks much safer. :)
[15:32] <rtdos> ahox, rork, i see what might've happened: when i pasted the first one to remove 'ubuntu' it said that i have broken packages. how do i find out which ones or fix them?
[15:35] <rork> rtdos: `sudo apt-get check` should do the job
[15:40] <rtdos> rork: this is what was returned: Reading package lists... Done - Building dependency tree        - Reading state information... Done -
[15:41] <rork> rtdos: "check is a diagnostic tool; it updates the package cache and checks for broken dependencies." It should be ok then.
[15:44] <rtdos> rork: so i shouldn't be too concerned about these messages: http://pastebin.com/tfv0rpa8 ?
[15:47] <rork> rtdos: you don't HAVE broken packages, some packages are not going to be installed because they have conflicting dependencies, which apt-get command are you using?
[15:50] <rtdos> fromt the link you sent me? the first one: which shows 'sudo apt-get remove'
[15:58] <rtdos> rork: i'm sure this is a dumb question but what does the 'build-dep' switch do when using 'sudo apt-get' ?
[16:00] <rork> rtdos: build-dep causes apt-get to install/remove packages in an attempt to satisfy the build dependencies for a source package. see `man apt-get`
[16:00] <Pici> rtdos: It downloads and installs the packages that were needed to compile the source for the package.
[16:01] <voicu> hello, how can I have 2 separate logins in kubuntu? I made X start with 1 screen for each monitor but how can I run 2 kdms, each with a different keyboard+mouse?
[16:01] <rork> As to the unmet dependencies I have no idea, maybe someone else knows
[16:02] <voicu> just so it's clear, I want the logins to be simultaneous
[16:02] <rtdos> ok thanks rork (and Pici)
[16:10] <genii-around> !multiseat
[16:10] <genii-around> Hm
[16:12] <BluesKaj> rtdos, unmet dependencies can be fixed by using the recovery kernel to boot in , then you'll get a dialog with "fix broken packages " option in the list , choose that , then after the fix is done reboot normally or startx
[16:12] <genii-around> voicu: I haven't tried this lately myself, but you may want to check out https://help.ubuntu.com/community/MultiseatX
[16:14] <rtdos> ok i'll try that, thanks BluesKaj - the reason I was asking is that i still have ubuntu / gnome desktop(s) on my system even though kpackagekit and synaptic (and sudo apt-get) all say i do not.
[16:14] <voicu> genii-around: hmm, i'll try, thanks
[16:15] <BluesKaj> rtdos, synaptic can do the same thing as the recovery procedure , I beleive it's under edit in synaptic /fix broken packages
[16:24] <rtdos> OK
[16:31] <BajK_> yeah, so I managed to increase my mom's pc speed and responsiveness by a factor of 4 :)
[16:33] <BajK_> what I did was: Disabled tty3 through tty6, mounted /tmp to tmpfs, disabled nepomuk and strigi, and: PRELINK
[16:34] <BajK_> now even her pc rocks
[16:34] <BajK_> and I upgraded her 4.5.5 to 4.6 RC 2 and added the bleeding edge X ppa with the most recent drivers
[16:46] <m_tadeu> hi...my amarok crashed but drkonqui can't find the debug symbols
[17:04] <kklimonda> hey, are there daily natty images for kubuntu?
[17:15] <rtdos> is there a way to re-install kubuntu and or KDE with all apps kubuntu comes with? "sudo apt-get install --reinstall kubuntu-desktop" and "sudo apt-get install --reinstall kde-full" doesn't seem to reinstall the default kubuntu apps.
[17:20] <BluesKaj> rtdos, install kubuntu-restricted-extras
[17:20] <rtdos> OK
[17:25] <rork> !daily kklimonda
[17:26] <rork> !daily
[17:26] <kklimonda> rork: thanks, I had to find http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/daily-live/current/ by browsing the folder tree :)
[17:28] <rork> yes, kubuntu images aren't listed there either
[17:28] <rork> * on the link I gave
[17:40] <pulaski> Hello, I recently upgraded from kubuntu 10.04 to 10.10 on my amd64 runnig kde 4.5.95 and power management appears broken. After my box goes to 'sleep" I can no longer bring it back by pressing any key or a click of the mouse. I have to reboot. I asked about this over in #kde and a person there told me its probably related to the kubuntu update. Has anyone else experienced something similar after updating to 10.10?
[17:41] <vanguard> I have 10.10 installed directly and my iMac suspends fine
[17:43] <Peace-> pulaski: ok it's a note bug
[17:43] <Peace-> pulaski: are your there ?
[17:43] <Peace-> i have the fix :D
[17:43] <pulaski> Peace-: yes thanks for responding
[17:44] <pulaski> Peace-: fix :D?
[17:44] <Peace-> pulaski: is this ? http://nowardev.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/nm_disabled.png?w=319&h=119
[17:44] <Peace-> pulaski: i mean your problem?
[17:45] <Peace-> pulaski: oh sorry it's the power
[17:45] <pulaski> Peace-: Thanks for the link I'll check it out.
[17:45] <Peace-> i have read network
[17:45] <Peace-> pulaski: nope man it's not your problem
[17:45] <Peace-> pulaski: i gues it's a kernel problem that you have
[17:46] <Peace-> you know upgrading kernel you got a bad one that doesn't handle the acpi well for your computer
[17:46] <Peace-> i gues you have to try some options on the kernel like nolapic
[17:46] <Peace-> no acpi
[17:46] <Peace-> and so on
[17:48] <pulaski> Peace-: Thanks for your suggestions. I'm not a very sophisticated user. I do regular updates though. Do you think others are working on this problem and regular updates will fix it?
[17:48] <Peace-> pulaski: i guess.. no i had this problem some years ago... and to see the fix i had to write on launchpad...
[17:49] <Peace-> pulaski: anyway i guess youcan fix by yourself
[17:49] <Peace-> beacuse with some option on the kernel you can get the stuff
[17:49] <Peace-> i mean you have to modify grub.cfg...
[17:50] <Peace-> pulaski: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BootOptions?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=menuf6.1.png
[17:50] <Peace-> pulaski: it's somethign like that
[17:51] <pulaski> Peace-: Thanks for the link. I don't know what nolapic is but I think grub will let me select kernels. I'll check out the new link, thanks again.
[17:51] <Peace-> pulaski: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BootOptions
[17:51] <Peace-> pulaski: if you look down there is the screen for the grub story
[17:52] <pulaski> Peace-: Got it, thanks.
[17:54] <eMyller> hello
[17:54] <eMyller> i have a bass here and i wanna plug it into my kubuntu box
[17:55] <Peace-> mm
[17:55] <Peace-> xD
[17:55] <eMyller> how can i redirect audio input (mic) directly to output?
[17:55] <Peace-> i guess with jack ?
[17:55] <Peace-> !jack
[17:55] <Peace-> mm
[17:55] <Peace-> xD sorry but well it's not my area
[17:56] <eMyller> p2, normal microphone input
[17:57] <Peace-> eMyller: you got 10.10 ?
[17:58] <Peace-> eMyller: kubuntu 10.04 or 10.10 ?
[18:04] <eMyller> Peace-: sorry. yea, 10.10
[18:05] <Spaztic_One> I have a couple problems with kubuntu, one is that if I tell my laptop to suspend to ram, it freezes just before it enters the low power state. I have to suspend to disk to get it to enter low power, but upon resuming, there are various graphical artifacts on some things, like the slide bar for the kde micro blog.
[18:05] <Peace-> eMyller: mm you want connect the mic to kubuntu , then use your bass  and record via mic ?
[18:06] <seawing_> I am running 9.04 64 and have run out of room on my hard drive while downloading something.  When I got the noticce I deleted some unesisary items and noticed that no mater how much I deleted, it still said I had 0% space left.  I restarted and now I can't log in.  I can view my files using a live disk, but I can't even log in in safe mode.  can anyone help?
[18:06] <eMyller> Peace-: no, i just want the audio input to go directly to output
[18:06] <eMyller> the bass is connected to the mic port
[18:06] <Peace-> eMyller: so the audio from your bas on the speaker of pc?
[18:06] <Peace-> eMyller: oh ok
[18:06] <Peace-> i got it
[18:06] <eMyller> yep
[18:07] <Peace-> mm i guess you need advanced stuff like jack jackd
[18:07] <eMyller> i have it
[18:07] <eMyller> but i can't make it work
[18:08] <Peace-> eMyller: mm have you started jackd ?
[18:08] <eMyller> every audio is now processed by PA, but i can't handle it
[18:08] <eMyller> yes
[18:08] <Peace-> eMyller: ok so
[18:08] <Peace-> there are 2 options i guess
[18:08] <Peace-> or remove pulse...
[18:08] <Peace-> or use a gtk stuff
[18:08] <Peace-> :D
[18:08] <Peace-> which one ?
[18:09] <Peace-> eMyller: to remove or install the gtk stuff read this http://nowardev.wordpress.com/2010/09/18/audio-problem-with-kubuntu-10-10/
[18:09] <eMyller> gstreamer?
[18:09] <eMyller> reading...
[18:10] <Peace-> eMyller: nome
[18:10] <Peace-> nope
[18:12] <Spaztic_One> seawing_: Curious, how big is your drive, and have you tried removing the file you were downloading? (I assume it never finished?)
[18:13] <seawing_> hmm...I did not tru to delet that file, I deleted some other files that I had backed up to free space.  I will try that though.
[18:13] <eMyller> Peace-: that worked, thanks! :D
[18:14] <Peace-> eMyller: what?
[18:14] <Spaztic_One> seawing_: did the file finish, or did it stop before it could?
[18:14] <eMyller> Peace-: using alsa only
[18:14] <eMyller> (removing PA)
[18:14] <Peace-> eMyller: heheheh i hate pulse :D that is my blog
[18:14] <seawing_> it did not finnish.  it was a bit torrent
[18:15] <seawing_> I think I have 147gigs on that partition
[18:15] <eMyller> Peace-: thanks for the info :)
[18:15] <Peace-> :)
[18:16] <Spaztic_One> seawing_: Ah, didn't know ou were using torrent, thought it was just a regular ftp download or something. There were two reasons why I suggested deleting that one, one is that (assuming ftp moreso than torrent) the file wouldn't have finished, and so it wouldn't have the [end of file] marker, which could cause some problems. the other reason is that it was the last thing you did before your computer got screwy.
[18:19] <seawing_> yes, I agree that that had something to do with it.  I seem to remember something like this happening years ago, but I dont remember what the solution was.  I think it has something to do with x.
[18:20] <seawing_> I am due for an upgrade, but wasn't really ready to do that yet
[18:20] <Spaztic_One> seawing_: any particular reason why not?
[18:23] <Spaztic_One> brb
[18:23] <seawing_> well, actually I am in the middle of a project where I am using phatch files to modify images that are coming to me from a client.  I recently upgraded my laptop and the newer version of phatch will not read the older version files.  I wanted to finish the project first rather than redoing all of the phatch files in the new format.
[18:23] <Spaztic_One> ah
[18:25] <seawing_> also, I am waiting for a friend to help me with a vbox instalization but that isn.t as critical.  Perhaps this is forcing my hand though.  less time fixing a borken machine
[18:31] <seawing_> actually, you made me think.  It may not have been the torrent that was the final straw.  it could have been any small little file downloaded into the tmp directory or something.
[18:36] <seawing_> ok, one question, if I go ahead and put in the 10.10 cd and do an upgrade, is there any reason that I may run into trouble because of the full HD?  I did delete a couple gigs I think, but it was not showing that I did before I shut it down and couldn't log in again.
[18:41] <eMyller> Peace-: lol, too much noise :|
[18:41] <Peace-> eMyller: mm
[18:41] <Peace-> eMyller: bad mic?
[18:41] <Peace-> xD
[18:41] <Peace-> eMyller: put less mic boost
[18:41] <eMyller> it's on 0
[18:41] <Peace-> eMyller: in capture try to set lower volume
[18:43] <eMyller> Peace-: a bit cleaner...
[18:43] <eMyller> i think i'll have to buy some hardware :|
[18:44] <Peace-> eMyller: mm wait ..
[18:44] <Peace-> eMyller: set well the volume... of capture could be that
[18:44] <Peace-> eMyller: on konsole type
[18:44] <Peace-> eMyller: alsamixer -V all
[18:44] <Peace-> and try to set volumes
[18:45] <eMyller> Peace-: kmix already gives me that; weird, mic volume doesn't count in the result
[18:46] <Peace-> mm you have not the mic volume ?
[18:46] <Peace-> ah ok understood
[18:46] <Peace-> eMyller: i guess is capture you have to set
[18:47] <Peace-> not the mic volume
[18:47] <Peace-> i have a mic (1 uero ) and if i don't set well caputre i got a lots of noise
[18:47] <Peace-> capture
[18:48] <eMyller> Peace-: oh, the capture channel wasn't visible
[18:48] <eMyller> now it is
[18:48] <eMyller> tweaking...
[18:49] <eMyller> Peace-: much cleaner :D
[18:50] <Peace-> eMyller: :)
[18:50] <eMyller> thanks again.
[18:50] <Peace-> bye man
[18:50] <Peace-> i have to go
[18:50] <eMyller> cya :)
[18:53] <GHH> If i remove kdm then will it be any harm?
[18:57] <GHH> i want to remove it because i like to login konsole user and password prompt
[18:58] <genii-around> GHH: You'll just need to issue: startx   after you login from console
[18:58] <GHH> yeah that is it i need
[18:59] <GHH> So for this i need to remove kdm?
[18:59] <GHH> genii-around,
[19:01] <GHH> I do not want GUI login interface
[19:03] <tsimpson> GHH: if you just want to disable KDM, you can just edit /etc/X11/default-display-manager and put anything other than "/usr/bin/kdm" in there
[19:05] <GHH> tsimpson, But is it not safe removing kdm (Space)?
[19:05] <tsimpson> it's safe enough, you just won't have KDM installed and will have to start X and KDE manually
[19:08] <GHH> tsimpson, Its mean that it wont ask only the user and password with GUI interface because i need to type startx for Desktop... right?
[19:09] <rtdos> 2 questions: how do i play dvd's in kubuntu and how do i set java (from sun) as default instead of openjava ?
[19:09] <tsimpson> yes, you'll login at the text terminal and then start X manually
[19:10] <GHH> tsimpson, Thanks
[19:12] <pimeja_> i have old laptop that does not support boot from usb, CD with old ubuntu and I want to install newer ubuntu on the laptop
[19:12] <GHH> tsimpson, 1 more question
[19:12] <pimeja_> for this i burn new kubuntu on usb. How would I directly boot from live CD to usb? is it possible?
[19:13] <tsimpson> rtdos: see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RestrictedFormats/PlayingDVDs for DVDs. for java, once you install sun-java6-plugin, use "sudo update-java-alternatives --set java-6-sun"
[19:14] <GHH> tsimpson, If i Edit menu (kmenuedit) and run remastersys tool for backup(Live cd purpose) then Will it save also the edited menu?
[19:14] <rtdos> thanks tsimpson.
[19:15] <tsimpson> GHH: when you edit the menu the changes are saved in your home directory, so as long as it backs-up your home directory it will be saved
[19:16] <GHH> tsimpson, Will it be system-wide? I mean for all user account?
[19:17] <tsimpson> no, only for your user
[19:18] <genii-around> GHH: Apologies on lag, work required me for an extended period. I am glad to see you have found other help.
[19:20] <GHH> tsimpson, Is there anyway working with menu for creating a live cd (ISO) so that it become default menu for all user account?
[19:20] <GHH> genii-around, np
[19:23] <tsimpson> GHH: you can create custom live CDs https://help.ubuntu.com/community/LiveCDCustomization but editing the default menus is more complex
[19:23] <tsimpson> there is usually only one user on the live CD anyway
[19:23] <GHH> tsimpson, I done that
[19:24] <GHH> tsimpson, Just i need the menu edit only
[19:24] <tsimpson> if you edit the menu for the default user on the live CD, then you don't need to edit the system files
[19:26] <GHH> tsimpson, I have 200-300 GUI and command line software/tools in folder and Just i need to add this folder to the menu so that i/users can click directly to execute
[19:30] <Kor03d> Huloall
[19:56] <seawing> So here is the weird thing, I have been locked out of kde when my disk ran out of room.  I log in with a live cd and delete several gigs of stuff.  then I click on properties for my home partition and it says that there are 0 B free of 168 gigs where I use to have 176 gigs.  it is like the partition is shrinking when I delet things.
[19:58] <seawing> oh, then when it calculates the size it says 165.2 gigs.  Should I ignore this when I go to install 10.10 and it asks if I have at least 2.6 gigs of free space?
[20:01] <tsimpson> seawing: you don't need to "install" 10.10, you can just upgrade with the package manager
[20:04] <seawing> that is true, in my experience things go better with a fresh install, especially since I am upgrading from 9.04
[20:05] <tsimpson> if you're doing a fresh install, then everything on the partition will be wiped anyway
[20:05] <seawing> there is an option to keep the home directory. or at least there use to be.
[20:06] <seawing> That is what I did when I recently upgraded my laptop
[20:06] <tsimpson> there's an option to not format, which is why a lot of people have separate /home partitions
[20:06] <seawing> right
[20:07] <tsimpson> if you have a separate /home, then it doesn't matter (for the installer) how much space is there, only on the root partition
[20:07] <tsimpson> or wherever /usr is mostly
[20:07] <seawing> ohhhhh...right
[20:08] <seawing> so no problem
[20:11] <seawing> here is the thing I just discovered, when I calculate just my home directory it says it only has 48.3 gigs but when I highlight all of the directories from bin to var, that is when it says 165 gigs.  is there a temp file that could be overloaded or something?
[20:12] <vanguard> there should be some program that shows you the sizes graphically
[20:12] <vanguard> like Disk Inventory X on osx, I'll look for it
[20:12] <Space_Man> maybe your wastebin/trashcan is full
[20:13] <vanguard> seawing: fsview it is
[20:15] <seawing> I am viewing the HD from a live disk.  is fsview a shell command or...
[20:18] <kyubutsu> thats why i prefer to use shift+delete
[20:19] <seawing> I do usually too.
[20:19] <kyubutsu> multiple trash bin issue gotta go  >:(
[20:21] <seawing> it really becomes an issue when you are trashing stuff on removeable media and dont realize that a trash bit is being filled there.
[20:22] <kyubutsu> also found it useful to be root when deleting all that extra garbage
[20:22] <seawing> I have to be from the live disk
[20:23] <kyubutsu> but in some instances even then i still had wierd issues where files still remained undeleted
[20:24] <kyubutsu> so, i backup everything dear to me, and plow thru everything on fresh install..
[20:24] <kyubutsu> end
[20:25] <seawing> I really don't want to upgrade yet but it looks like that is the simplest solution
[20:26] <kyubutsu> obviously the problem can be worsen by a)multi-boot b)size of data to backup , for example..
[20:30] <seawing> I have everything backed up.  I guess i will go for it.
[20:30] <kyubutsu> godspeed
[20:33] <seawing> do I want to unmount the partitions?
[20:34] <kyubutsu> sure
[20:34] <kyubutsu> leave it like no ones coming home
[20:34] <kyubutsu> :-P
[20:36] <BajK> hm every secondth appointment from google calendar is not in my kde calendar
[20:41] <seawing> is ext 3 or ext4 beter?
[20:42] <maco> ext3 has more years of testing and stability behind it, ext4 has more speed
[20:42] <maco> "better" is based on which is more important to you
[20:44] <seawing> I see.
[20:44] <kyubutsu> to me its like the 32 vs 64 debate..  i say go ext4
[20:45] <seawing> I'n runing 64 so why not
[20:45] <kyubutsu> which is the default as far as i can tell
[20:45] <kyubutsu> so there, 64 and ext4, nothing wrong with that
[20:46] <kyubutsu> thats what am running
[20:59] <alessandro> Ciao
[21:22] <seawing> I did a fresh install from a live disk and it won't let me log in.  Is there a way to check a password, or do I need to start over?
[21:24] <vanguard> hmm, I guess you can somehow reset the password with a life CD
[21:26] <Murchadh> seawing: http://www.linuxforums.org/articles/howto-recover-root-password_54.html
[21:26] <genii-around> yes, eg: mount /dev/sda1 /mnt && chroot /mnt                  then: passwd <username>        and exit, etc
[21:26] <seawing> thanks
[21:27] <genii-around> seawing: Use of course the correct hard drive designation, sda1 was an example here
[21:31] <rtdos> how do i change the screen resolution from the command line?
[21:42] <genii-around> rtdos: Basically: sudo xrandr -s HxV       where H is horizontal pixels and V is vertical pixels
[21:56] <rtdos> thx
[23:12] <rtdos> is there a way to launch Akregator minimized (in the system tray) ?
[23:22] <luis_> hello guys good afternoon to you all i like to ask for your help to install the newest version of wine, i do need it to make work some web page correctly i have kubuntu-8.04 and i got this: http://pastebin.com/HYFCPYZw
[23:33] <luis_> so no one knows or everybody is bussy?
[23:41] <luis_> help me please
[23:45] <ieroglif> luis_, again - what is proplem?
[23:46] <ieroglif> problem
[23:46] <ieroglif> i connected after quir question
[23:47] <luis_> ok
[23:47] <Space_Man> [23:22] <luis_> hello guys good afternoon to you all i like to ask for your help to install the newest version of wine, i do need it to make work some web page correctly i have kubuntu-8.04 and i got this: http://pastebin.com/HYFCPYZw
[23:47] <luis_> let me refres
[23:47] <luis_> thats the on
[23:48] <luis_> txs SPACEMAN


[06:29] <Brainstorm> Updates for Bangladesh: +31017 cases (now 1.5 million), +750 deaths (now 27182), +2792094 vaccines (now 21.6 million), +391931 tests (now 9.4 million) since a day ago
[15:36] <Brainstorm> Updates for Bangladesh: +1383 cases (now 1.5 million), +43 deaths (now 27225) since 9 hours ago
[19:43] <Brainstorm> 🌕 भूकंप! ငလျင်! Землятрус! Earthquake! 5.1 Mb tremor, registered by 4 agencies, with 3 reports, occurred 19 minutes ago (19:24:04 UTC), with a full moon, Phek, India (25.21, 94.91) ± 3 km, ↓42 km likely felt 160 km away (in Ukhrul, ဟုမ္မလင်း…) by 21500 people (earthquake.usgs.gov)


[08:46] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project mgmt_docker » linode-01 build #3035: SUCCESS in 1 min 14 sec: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/mgmt_docker/label=linode-01/3035/
[08:46] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project mgmt_docker » master build #3035: SUCCESS in 1 min 39 sec: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/mgmt_docker/label=master/3035/
[08:49] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project mgmt_docker » swy-01 build #3035: SUCCESS in 4 min 30 sec: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/mgmt_docker/label=swy-01/3035/
[13:13] <BluesKaj> Hi folks
[14:26]  * mamarley kicks LP.
[14:26] <mamarley> Seriously, 2 hours and a package isn't published yet?
[14:46] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project mgmt_docker » linode-01 build #3036: SUCCESS in 1 min 15 sec: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/mgmt_docker/label=linode-01/3036/
[14:46] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project mgmt_docker » master build #3036: SUCCESS in 1 min 21 sec: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/mgmt_docker/label=master/3036/
[14:49] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project mgmt_docker » swy-01 build #3036: SUCCESS in 4 min 21 sec: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/mgmt_docker/label=swy-01/3036/
 It's not even Sunday O_O
 @mamarley, Is it still going?
[18:25] <mamarley> tsimonq2: The publish thing?  It finally did go through.
 Ahhh
[18:31]  * acheronuk kicks LP anyway (pre-emptive for next time)
 https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=321190 FINALLY!!!
 it took the stepping down of someone to get something back that should have never been taken out but I'm happy because the one thing I have been wanting to do for years and was not allowed is finally back and my statement of "you can do whatever you want in Plasma" is finally true for me :D
 well I have to wait until 5.17 but still
 :)
 Weird
 Sorry wontfix. As can be seen in the review request the action is seen as destructive and has been removed deliberately as there is an explicit action to close a window. Re-adding would introduce the same problems which were the reasons to remove it. Obviously making it the default is completely out of bounds as it is a destructive action. … I'm sorry that this is causing inconveniences to you but we have to design software
 I don't think I have to justify the decision. The feature had been added by me  … (9551c94e7c460efb3b0fd9ccb60472311ff0bf16) in the first place and it has been  … removed by me (f2b7ad693e8c4ef59093287473fb07a3098775bc).
 Sounds a bit like a GNOME developer.
[21:41] <valorie> I dunno, kwin has a lot of knobs and switches
[21:42] <valorie> I think Martin was just trying to stop the proliferation
 good night everyone
 (Photo, 1280x719) https://irc-attachments.kde.org/bKy8gEpK/file_16050.jpg So ... I finally have the ethernet cabling installed. Photos  of the thing and test rebuilds tomorrow.
 Looking forward to there pictures. Good night.
[22:57] <valorie> niters @santa


[01:56] <TheMuso> Pendulum: Who do I send my blog post to? I've made a first draft, and intend to review it later today and will send it to whoever can put it up.
[02:02] <Pendulum> TheMuso: you can send it to me or AlanBell :)
[02:02] <TheMuso> Pendulum: Sweet thanks.
[15:19] <Pendulum> charlie-tca: are you around for me to pick your brain for a sec?
[15:20] <charlie-tca> um, yeah
[20:07] <Pendulum> it's nice to see that accessibility was mentioned in jono's Linux Format article about Unity
[20:07] <Pendulum> (just saw it in Barnes & Noble, but did not buy)
[21:51] <erkan^> have someone tried with tactile view under Wine too ?
[21:51] <erkan^> by me doesn't work good )-:
[22:48] <jake_> hey, i cant seem to boot into terminal/recovery mode :(
[22:51] <erkan^> ? jake
[22:51] <charlie-tca> went away
[22:51] <erkan^> yes is ee
[22:51] <erkan^> :/
[22:52] <charlie-tca> erkan^: I did not respond to you because I do not have Wine
[22:56] <erkan^> ok
[22:56] <erkan^> )-:
[22:56] <erkan^> i see that here is not like Wine
[22:56] <erkan^> :/
[22:56] <erkan^> have you not Linuxdistribution, charlie-tca ?
[22:58] <charlie-tca> I use Ubuntu and Xubuntu, but I have no windows. Without windows, wine doesn't do anything
[22:58] <AlanBell> it does
[22:58] <AlanBell> it runs windows apps
[22:59] <charlie-tca> and where do I get those apps?
[22:59] <AlanBell> you don't need a windows install to run wine (it *can* use some windows dlls but usually doesn't need to)
[23:00] <AlanBell> download a setup.exe or something from a random website, this is the windows way
[23:00] <erkan^> but
[23:01] <erkan^> can you try --> sudo apt-get install wine charlie-tca  ?
[23:01] <erkan^> :/
[23:01] <charlie-tca> not at the moment, I have three installs running for testing right now. I will when one of those gets done.
[23:01] <charlie-tca> What do you want me to test when I do that?
[23:02] <erkan^> or works the tactiele view good with you, charlie-tca
[23:02] <erkan^> http://www.tactileview.com
[23:02] <charlie-tca> I am not familiar with that
[23:02] <charlie-tca> what version of Ubuntu do you have?
[23:03] <erkan^> 10.10
[23:03] <erkan^> Ubuntu
[23:03] <charlie-tca> Okay, it will a few minutes
[23:03] <erkan^> ok
[23:16] <erkan^> and charlie-tca  ?
[23:16] <erkan^> :s
[23:16] <charlie-tca> will be starting the 10.10 install in a minute or two
[23:17] <erkan^> ow oki
[23:20] <charlie-tca> hm, wine never changed from 10.04 to 10.10. Maybe I can try this in 10.04.2
[23:22] <erkan^> pfffffffff
[23:22] <erkan^> ok than, i must wait till 100 years that you are clear hi hi, charlie-tca
[23:23] <charlie-tca> I am sorry. I can try this for you, but I am not sitting just waiting for someone to say "do this". I already explained I am testing cd's today
[23:25] <charlie-tca> If you are in a hurry, you should have someone else try and test this, maybe.
[23:26] <erkan^> no problem (-:
[23:42] <charlie-tca> erkan^: I got the file, and I installed wine. Now how do I install this TactileView?
[23:43] <erkan^> euh
[23:43] <charlie-tca> heh
[23:44] <erkan^> when you click a pictogram for tactileview, first choose you with right mouse -- > Propites, than see you tabblads --> Rights
[23:44] <charlie-tca> okay, it is installing
[23:45] <erkan^> Check:
[23:45] <erkan^> Performing file permit
[23:45] <erkan^> ow ok
[23:50] <charlie-tca> I am getting a lot of errors on this
[23:51] <charlie-tca> Can't run it
[23:51] <erkan^> ow
[23:51] <erkan^> )-:
[23:51] <charlie-tca> I don't know enough about wine to tell if this has to have windows, or is something I am doing wrong.
[23:52] <erkan^> huh?
[23:53] <charlie-tca> unhandled exception error
[23:53] <erkan^> i have problem too
[23:53] <erkan^> https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/_-g7SHML2oAI/TVr319zL3BI/AAAAAAAAA0k/wfmXpRznPeE/programma%20fout.png
[23:54] <charlie-tca> it won't run
[23:54] <charlie-tca> yup
[23:54] <charlie-tca> that is the one. It appears to be a direct problem with wine and the TactileView program.
[23:55] <charlie-tca> I think that is one of those programs that needs more of windows, but I don't know for sure. file a bug in launchpad for it, I guess and include the screen shot
[23:55] <erkan^> ow
[23:56] <charlie-tca> It is an unhandled page fault on read access
[23:56] <erkan^> i have tried to install too: http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/12/wine-1-3-9-brings-beginnings-of-activex-support/ but is same problem
[23:57] <charlie-tca> then it is a problem in wine itself
[23:57] <charlie-tca> you should be able to report a bug using
[23:57] <erkan^> yes that can
[23:57] <erkan^> )-:
[23:57] <charlie-tca> ubuntu-bug wine
[23:58] <erkan^> good idea
[23:58] <erkan^> I go do
[23:58] <charlie-tca> erkan^: thank you for reporting the problem


[17:58] <xevious> Is there official (not community) documentation about how the current live/install ISO images are created?
[18:01] <xevious> I found this page: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/LiveCDCustomizationFromScratch
[18:02] <xevious> However, Colin Watson's quote in this article implies that they switched to live-build for 11.10. Is that still being used?


[03:51] <nigelb> morning folks
[06:25] <pleia2> akgraner: added those board addresses to their respective wiki pages \o/
[06:29] <nigelb> :)
[07:54] <dholbach> good morning
[07:55] <nigelb> hello
[07:56] <dholbach> hi nigelb
[08:33] <dpm> morning all
[08:47] <kim0> Morning everyone
[08:48] <dholbach> hey dpm, hey kim0
[08:48] <kim0> dholbach: hey man, how's it going
[08:49] <dholbach> kim0, great - thanks, how are you? what's new in Egypt?
[08:49] <kim0> I'm going good as well :)
[08:51] <kim0> not much action going on atm :)
[09:05] <nigelb> dpm: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuAppDeveloperWeek/LightningTalks \o/
[09:05] <nigelb> NINE talks :)
[09:07] <dpm> nigelb, oh, man, that's awesome! good work!
[09:07] <nigelb> :)
[09:07] <dpm> heya dholbach, hey kim0
[09:08] <nigelb> Morning kim0 :)
[09:09] <kim0> nigelb: dpm howdy fellas
[09:18] <czajkowski> Aloha
[11:27] <duanedesign> morning friends
[11:28] <kim0> Morning
[11:34] <AlanBell> anyone coming to London for the Natty release?
[11:34] <czajkowski> maybe,...
[11:35] <AlanBell> ah, but you are a local now, I meant foreign people
[11:36] <czajkowski> no I mean t I might be as I may go home to ireland that weekend.
[11:36] <czajkowski> :)
[11:38] <AlanBell> :-O
[11:38] <czajkowski> well a 4 day weekend...
[11:39] <AlanBell> fair point
[11:39] <AlanBell> so standing in westminster waving a union jack doesn't appeal?
[11:42] <czajkowski> eh no...
[11:43] <Pendulum> yeah, I was about to say 'I wish I could be', but then I thought 'actually, no I want to be as far from London as possible that weekend'
[11:59] <nigelb> heh
[11:59] <JanC> what's wrong with that weekend?
[12:00] <nigelb> ubuntu release, some crazy acts by the ubuntu-uk
[12:00] <czajkowski> bank holiday friday off
[12:00] <nigelb> Prince getting Married ;)
[12:00] <czajkowski> is the monday also a non working day ?
[12:00] <czajkowski> may bank holiday weekend ?
[12:02] <Pendulum> czajkowski: I believe so, yes
[12:02] <czajkowski> sweet
[12:02] <czajkowski> :D
[12:05] <Pendulum> I should probably remind you, however, that I don't live in the UK and you might want to varify with someone who does :P
[12:06] <czajkowski> nods
[12:06] <czajkowski> just googled
[12:07] <czajkowski> seems to be the same bank holiday as ireland
[12:28] <czajkowski> watching and irc channel conversation is like watching a car crash about to happen
[12:28] <czajkowski> you know it's going to happen
[12:28] <czajkowski> you can see it slowly happening
[12:28] <czajkowski> its going to explode!
[12:33] <jussi> czajkowski: I know the feeling exactly
[12:33] <jussi> :P
[12:46] <dholbach> Technoviking, heya - how are you doing? do you think I should ping somebody else about the forums stats?
[13:53] <daker> nigelb, what's this new sport http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=202567839755113&oid=183014081732033&comments ?
[15:05] <popey> le sigh
[15:06] <jussi> popey: ?
[15:06] <popey> luis posting the "programming mf" on planet ubuntu
[15:12] <AlanBell> all seems a bit gratuitous
[15:12] <jcastro> OMG NEW UUPC
[15:12] <jcastro> with more lauras
[15:12] <popey> heh
[15:12] <AlanBell> buy one get one free
[15:12] <popey> We're having a quiz next time
[15:12] <jcastro> I recall submitting questions
[15:13] <jcastro> I hope they were useful and obscure enough
[15:13] <popey> for this one we need answers! :D
[15:13] <popey> http://tinyurl.com/uupcfortunes
[15:13] <jcastro> did you guys ever find lifeless? he's quiz master since he's been around
[15:13] <jcastro> like, he knows the original draft name of the company on like the original paperwork, obscure things like that
[15:13] <popey> no. but thanks for the reminder
[15:13]  * AlanBell remembers several thousand questions that need adding to a bot
[15:14] <popey> mumble is good fun to leave running
[15:34] <vish> wheee! /me bookmarks dholbach's post ;)
[15:34] <dholbach> vish, if you find mistakes, please file bugs :)
[15:35] <vish> sure thing.. :)
[16:01] <jono> kim0, all set?
[16:02] <dholbach> duanedesign, popey: what's state of the art for doing screencasts? still "just" gtk-recordmydesktop?
[16:02] <jono> dholbach, did you send me the slide yet with the stats?
[16:02] <dholbach> jono, I still don't have up-to-date stats regarding the forums
[16:02] <jono> dholbach, I need them ASAP
[16:02] <dholbach> jono, but I can send you the rest if you like
[16:02] <jono> please do
[16:03] <Pendulum> jono: I"m not going to be able to do our call today. Does canceling and figuring we'll talk in 2 weeks for work you?
[16:03] <jono> Pendulum, np
[16:03] <kim0> jono: yep
[16:04] <kim0> dholbach: sleep 4 && ffmpeg -f alsa -ac 1 -i pulse -f x11grab -r 25 -s 1280x720 -i :0.0 -acodec pcm_s16le -vcodec libx264 -vpre lossless_ultrafast -threads 0 /tmp/screencast-$(date +%T).mkv
[16:04] <kim0> is what I use :P
[16:06] <dholbach> thanks kim0
[16:06] <jono> kim0, sorry, few mins
[16:06] <kim0> np
[16:07] <AlanBell> jono: are you in London for the Natty release or staying in the sunny place?
[16:08] <jono> AlanBell, I will be over here
[16:28] <czajkowski> jcastro: the more the merrier right :D
[16:52] <Technoviking> morning all,
[16:53] <Technoviking> dholbach: will update those stats asap
[17:01] <jcastro> https://twitter.com/#!/castrojo/status/53485548777648128
[17:01] <jcastro> retweets pls
[17:01] <kim0> jcastro: done ;)
[17:04] <dholbach> Technoviking, ROCK
[17:10] <Technoviking> dholbach: sent
[17:10] <Technoviking> can launcher buttons be re-order in unity?
[17:11] <dholbach> thanks a lot Technoviking
[17:18] <Technoviking> deeeply sorry for the delay, move my departments web server for a Sun Vignette system to Apache/Ubuntu system last week (Rock!), been busy putting out fires with it
[17:24] <dholbach> Technoviking, oh, I can imagine - no problem :)
[17:24] <dholbach> it's not like I waited weeks :)
[17:25] <Technoviking> dholbach: sending again, forgot to change the overall stats line
[17:26] <AlanBell> http://blip.tv/file/4958226 me trying to install Natty with the accessible installer
[17:26] <AlanBell> I have many bugs to file
[17:31] <AlanBell> there is one bit where I am staring at the screen and not seeing the installer in the administration menu, but hey, I was supposed to be blind, it isn't particularly discoverable
[17:45] <Technoviking> Hey, I installed Unity and no blood came out of my walls. After all the
[17:45] <dholbach> Technoviking, lucky you
[17:46] <dholbach> just kidding ;-)
[17:46] <pleia2> hehe
[17:47] <dholbach> it lives up to expectations of a close-to-beta1-ubuntu-release :)
[17:49] <Technoviking> Think a checkbox for install NVidia/ATI driver may make the install process for those machine smoother though
[18:00] <dholbach> ok my friends
[18:00] <dholbach> I call it a day
[18:00] <dholbach> have a great rest of your day - see you tomorrow!
[18:01] <kim0> o/
[18:01] <jcastro> "Hey, I installed Unity and no blood came out of my walls"
[18:01] <jcastro> hahaha
[18:01] <jcastro> awesome
[18:01] <vish> wth!
[18:01]  * dholbach hugs you all
[18:01] <vish> jcastro: where was that? ;)
[18:02] <jcastro> vish: Technoviking, scroll up
[18:02] <vish> ha! :p
[18:07] <popey> AlanBell: just watching your video
[18:07] <popey> "best experienced with your eyes shut"
[18:07] <popey> "as you can see here"
[18:07] <popey> :)
[18:07] <AlanBell> yeah
[18:07] <AlanBell> lots of that
[18:07] <AlanBell> which is the problem
[18:08] <AlanBell> no way I could get it installed with my eyes actually shut
[18:10] <popey> AlanBell: at 3:26 you said the panels hadnt started
[18:10] <popey> they wont, you chose "install ubuntu"
[18:11] <popey> ubiquity should start
[18:13] <vish> actually why choose the try option and then install? could have just chosen the install option, which could have reduced some of the other "bugs" during the recording session
[18:13] <popey> i thought he did choose "install" not "try"
[18:14] <vish> nope, try option is the one which opens up the desktop first and from there we install
[18:14] <popey> Yes, I know that :)
[18:14] <vish> :D
[18:14] <popey> i said, I thought _he_ _chose_ install
[18:14] <vish> gotit
[18:14] <popey> but i was wrong
[18:14] <popey> he chose try
[18:15] <popey> this is horrific to watch
[18:18] <vish> so if folks dont follow the voice, is there a way to "Repeat" the voice? (other than just going to some other option and coming back?)
[18:19] <vish> AlanBell: ^
[18:23] <vish> heh, alteast one good thing was that the installation was going on in the background ;)
[18:27] <vish> oh gosh! how would someone know what password they enter! and then how do they confirm it..  :s
[18:30] <popey> leave it blank, easy ;)
[18:31] <vish> hehe!
[18:31] <MeanEYE> Hello
[18:34] <vish> AlanBell: "Alan" was chosen for Alan Turing  :)
[18:36] <dpm> hey folks, could you help me spreading the word a bit about AppDeveloperWeek?
[18:36] <dpm> http://twitter.com/dplanella/status/53509165339000832
[18:36] <dpm> http://identi.ca/notice/70146683
[18:36] <dpm> thanks!
[18:46] <Technoviking> dpm: done
[18:48] <jcastro> jono: btw my u1 store/banshee thing has been working all cycle
[18:48] <jono> jcastro, cool
[18:48] <dpm> cool, thanks Technoviking
[18:49] <dpm> and now time to call it a day, see you all tomorrow!
[18:58] <jcastro> jono: do the songs show up in your web space?
[19:01] <jono> jcastro, see the bug I filed
[19:01] <jcastro> hmm yeah
[19:01] <jcastro> weird
[19:01] <jono> they sync but Banshee doesnt update the library
[19:02] <jcastro> what happens if you manually select "tools, rescan..."
[19:05] <AlanBell> popey: I was trying to follow the test case http://testcases.qa.ubuntu.com/Install/DesktopAccessibility
[19:05] <AlanBell> which is why I went down the install path
[19:05] <AlanBell> the panels were just corrupted I think
[19:06] <AlanBell> the voice is orca, it just reads what gtk tells it to read, which is basically what your cursor is on
[19:08] <AlanBell> trying the accessible install is really easy to do, it is just there on the regular CD, I highly recommend you try it yourself and try to do it without looking at the screen
[19:09] <AlanBell> I just about managed to do it with Lucid, Maverick is impossible, Natty is horrible, but looks like it could be made to be possible
[19:10] <jcastro> 39 jobs (4 hours 40 minutes)
[19:11] <jcastro> Launchpad queue - 39 jobs (4 hours 40 minutes)
[19:11] <jcastro> talk about post beta firehose!
[19:36] <czajkowski> ello
[21:28]  * popey tickles Riddell
[21:28] <Riddell> I'm not ticklish!
[21:30] <popey> I shall test this theory if I get UDS sponsorship!
[21:30] <popey> In fact I should have put that on my application.
[21:38] <vish> evilduanedesign: duanedesign: around?
[21:47] <duanedesign> vish: hello
[21:47] <duanedesign> vish: i just got in, good tiiming
[21:47] <vish> :)
[21:47] <Technoviking> what is non the unity Gnome selection called in Natty GDM?
[21:51] <jcastro> "Oh no please not the GS vs Unity thing, this is like Megadeth vs Metallica " haha awesome
[21:51] <jcastro> Technoviking: "Ubuntu Classic"
[21:51] <maco> Riddell: i think experience suggests that to be false
[21:55] <Technoviking> jcastro: thanks
[22:01] <Riddell> maco: I've experienced tickling, I'm not ticklish
[22:04] <maco> Riddell: hmmm...i thought you did respond when i tickled you....
[22:10] <AlanBell> anyone want to stress test a mumble server on mumble.libertus.co.uk
[22:10] <AlanBell> bunch of random -uk people on there at the moment
[23:31] <akgraner> AlanBell I <3 mumble...


[11:14] <flocculant> sakrecoer_: bug 1524937
[11:14] <sakrecoer_> thanks flocculant :)
[11:14] <flocculant> it's being looked at btw
[11:15] <sakrecoer_> perfect :)
[11:25] <sakrecoer_> "Installing new version of config file /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/01autoremove ..." \o/
[21:24] <zequence> Seems there's a problem with syslinux after the gcc5 transition
[21:24] <zequence> bug 1507002
[21:25] <zequence> Affects usb installer creators such as unetbootin
[21:25] <zequence> We have this problem with 15.10, so I will make a note on our download page about this


[05:31] <Kilos> cremora minora
[05:31] <Kilos> you are early Trixar_za
[05:31] <Kilos> wet the bed?
[05:31] <Trixar_za> No, had to wake up early
[05:32] <Kilos> ah
[06:04] <trender> (.)(.)
[06:04] <trender>   __
[06:04] <Kilos> hi trender
[06:04] <trender> yo
[06:12] <inetpro> good morning Kilos, Trixar_za, trender and every other lurker out there
[06:13] <Kilos> morning inetpro
[06:13] <Trixar_za> Morning inetpro
[06:13] <inetpro> Kilos: how are the sheep this morning?
[06:14] <Kilos> havent looked yet inetpro , and your pest?
[06:14] <Kilos> still frozen here
[06:14] <inetpro> quiet at the mo
[06:14] <Kilos> any koekoes left?
[06:15] <inetpro> one rooster and a hen with 7 chicks
[06:16] <inetpro> oh and a few others, bigger ones
[06:16] <inetpro> he killed almost all the bantams
[06:16] <Kilos> whew
[06:18] <inetpro> started with 5 chicks from my brother and had just more than twenty of them already
[06:19] <Kilos> lol ya bantams bread well
[06:19] <Kilos> breead
[06:19] <Kilos> sjoe
[06:19] <Kilos> breed
[06:22] <inetpro> yep, nice to see them grow and multiply
[06:22] <inetpro> not fun to see them get killed
[06:23] <Kilos> yeah makes one feel like a successful farmer
[06:23] <Kilos> thats why chickens are better
[06:23] <Kilos> try losing 5 sheep in one night and see how that feels
[06:24] <inetpro> eish!
[06:24] <Kilos> and work out the cash value
[06:24] <Kilos> coulda bought me a lekker pc
[06:24] <inetpro> ja that hurts big time
[06:25] <Kilos> the worst park was they were all preggy ewes
[06:25] <Kilos> part
[06:25] <inetpro> ai!
[06:25] <Kilos> so its like ten gone
[06:26] <inetpro> you see, there's a lesson in all this
[06:26] <Kilos> oh?
[06:26] <inetpro> there is no such thing as set and forget
[06:26] <Kilos> nope you are right
[06:27] <inetpro> everything you do, you must manage it well
[06:27] <Kilos> ya but not easy to spend every night watching
[06:27] <Symmetria> http://beetlesinthebush.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/img_4069_lvl_1200x800_usm.jpg
[06:27] <Kilos> one gets kinda sleepy
[06:28] <Symmetria> god thats a nice photo
[06:28] <Symmetria> cant wait to get that lens and play
[06:30] <Kilos> Symmetria, do you still work?
[06:30] <Kilos> 8ta needs help
[06:31] <Symmetria> Kilos haha if 8ta wants to approach me and offer me insane money I'd think about it ;p
[06:31] <Symmetria> I'd do work for 8ta but it would cost them 9600 USD a week ;p
[06:31] <Kilos> whew
[06:32] <HawkiesZA> What lens is that Symmetria?
[06:33] <Symmetria> hawkies a canon MP-65E
[06:33] <Symmetria> its a very very unique lens, canon is the only one that makes anything like it
[06:33] <HawkiesZA> 65mm Macro?
[06:33] <Symmetria> its a 65mm f/2.8 macro lens. except unlike most macro lenses which do a 1:1, this does a 5x magnification
[06:33] <HawkiesZA> Good grief
[06:33] <Symmetria> yeah, except its unique because its got a 5x magnification
[06:34] <Symmetria> I ordered one that I got at an insanely good price, its arriving today or tomorrow
[06:34] <HawkiesZA> Nice
[06:35] <Symmetria> picked up that lens for 5 grand at a 50% discount
[06:35] <HawkiesZA> I'm still enjoying my 24-70mm f/2.8 :D
[06:35] <Symmetria> bought it because its the one lens that will make my camera gear very unique, very very few people have that lens
[06:35] <Symmetria> HawkiesZA I bought a 70-200 f/2.8 the other day
[06:35] <Symmetria> made by Tamron
[06:35] <Symmetria> fantastic lens
[06:35] <HawkiesZA> Sigma for me
[06:35] <HawkiesZA> The Nikkor lens is just way too expensive
[06:36] <magespawn> good morning all
[06:36] <Symmetria> http://valhalla.clue.be/~vort/wildlife/peacock3.jpg
[06:36] <HawkiesZA> And the sigma was cheap 2nd hand at orms
[06:36] <Symmetria> check that out hawkies
[06:36] <Symmetria> and keep in mind, that shot was taken at a 1600 ISO level
[06:36] <HawkiesZA> With a Canon?
[06:36] <Symmetria> HawkiesZA I would *seriously* suggest you look at tamron lenses, they tend to be at same price as the sigma's but they are far better lenses
[06:37] <Kilos> hi magespawn
[06:38] <HawkiesZA> I checked out the Tamron version before settling on Sigma for the 24-70mm. The Sigma got good reviews in general. It's obviously not as good as the Nikkor, but it's good enough for the hobbyist without breaking my bank account.
[06:38] <magespawn> hey Kilos
[06:39] <HawkiesZA> I appreciate the value of some good review ;)
[06:39] <magespawn> i see we are #ubuntu-za-photography this morning
[06:39] <HawkiesZA> Woooooo!
[06:39] <Kilos> hehe
[06:40] <HawkiesZA> If we want to bring it back to Ubuntu, we can talk about the editing software we use if you like :P
[06:41] <inetpro> HawkiesZA: the sad part is that Symmetria is not even running ubuntu
[06:41] <HawkiesZA> Blasphemy!
[06:41] <HawkiesZA> :D
[06:41] <inetpro> :-)
[06:41] <Symmetria> heh HawkiesZA the reason Im not running ubuntu is because the photo editing stuff just isnt available for it
[06:41] <magespawn> nah is all good
[06:42] <Kilos> gimp no good?
[06:42] <Symmetria> the lack of things like lightroom and photoshop for linux is problematic to say the least
[06:42] <Symmetria> kilos gimp can't touch photoshop CS6, and there is nothing like lightroom available
[06:43] <Kilos> then really show how clever you are and write something
[06:43] <Kilos> the idea is to get ubuntu ahead
[06:43] <HawkiesZA> Symmetria, you can use Aftershot Pro for Raw
[06:43] <HawkiesZA> That's what I use because the Open Source stuff just didn't cut it :/
[06:44] <HawkiesZA> And then GIMP for the final touch-ups
[06:44] <Symmetria> kilos the solution is to really get adobe to release linux versions
[06:44] <Kilos> tune them
[06:44] <Symmetria> the fact is, adobe is still the defacto go to point for image and video editing
[06:44] <HawkiesZA> Sure, but there are other options
[06:44] <HawkiesZA> Cheaper options too, with CC now
[06:44] <Symmetria> its the same with video software, stuff like after effects and premiere are soooooo far ahead of the pack (even in the windows world)
[06:44] <Kilos> ask them or beg them
[06:45] <HawkiesZA> I aint paying for Photoshop :P
[06:45] <Symmetria> HawkiesZA you seen that adobe have scrapped perpetual licensing for PS?
[06:45] <HawkiesZA> I'll agree with Premiere
[06:45] <Symmetria> actually ALL of their products
[06:45] <HawkiesZA> Man Premiere is good. Nothing comes close.
[06:45] <Symmetria> they have gone to a cloud based license model, and the pricing is actually pretty damn good
[06:45] <HawkiesZA> Yep. CS is dead, long live CC
[06:45] <Symmetria> you can license individual products at $20 a month, or their ENTIRE suite for $50 a month
[06:46] <Symmetria> (I do the latter, that way I get premier pro, after effects, photoshop, lightroom and everything else for $50 a month)
[06:47] <HawkiesZA> That's a lot of money for a hobby
[06:47] <HawkiesZA> Too much for me
[06:47] <HawkiesZA> And that actually works out cheaper than before which says a lot
[06:47] <Trixar_za> Rip off in favour or making more money. They'll also never will release for Linux. They're perpetually making BAD business decisions.  I still don't think we should allow ideas and abstract concepts to be patented. Actual design process used for creating physical products and actual machines yes, but not ideas and mathematical formulas.
[06:50] <HawkiesZA> Symmetria, used it briefly on trial
[06:51] <HawkiesZA> I'll agree that it's good, but it's not good enough to lock me into a bad OS :P
[06:53] <Symmetria> HawkiesZA heh, the thing is, windows prior to windows 7 really sucked, windows 8 is a steaming pile of shit
[06:53] <Symmetria> but windows 7 itself, it hasnt given me any issues
[06:53] <Symmetria> though again, most of my adobe work is actually done on mac
[06:54] <Symmetria> and os-x is basically freebsd with a very nice front-end
[06:56] <Symmetria> man, Im struggling with the questions in this assignment for my photography course
[06:59] <magespawn> anybody used Darktable?
[07:00] <HawkiesZA> magespawn, yeah, but I didn't like the bouncy workflow
[07:00] <magespawn> is this a picture of someones mother-in-law Symmetria? http://beetlesinthebush.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/img_4069_lvl_1200x800_usm.jpg
[07:01] <Kilos> hi Guest48381
[07:01] <Guest48381> Hi
[07:01] <Kilos> welcome to ubuntu-za
[07:02] <Guest48381> Thanks.
[07:02] <magespawn> HawkiesZA: it seems to get very mixed reviews
[07:03] <Symmetria> magespawn lol its an incredible picture
[07:03] <Kilos> just restarting xchat
[07:03] <Symmetria> https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-Lnc1OA3Ez9Y/UWxNhY_nTrI/AAAAAAAAN4I/TMUWpePlBbQ/w975-h672-no/DKP_9319.jpg
[07:03] <Symmetria> that was also taken with that MP-E lens
[07:03] <Symmetria> its a snowflake ;p
[07:04] <magespawn> for those into wildlife photography try outdoorphoto.co.za the forums are active and helpful
[07:05] <Symmetria> magespawn you saw my peacock and monkey photos right?
[07:06] <magespawn> don't think so, just the male peacock
[07:06] <Kilos> Guest48381, do you need any help with linux/ubuntu
[07:06] <Kilos> this is the ubuntu linux help channel
[07:06] <Symmetria> (be warned, these photos are *large*)
[07:06] <Symmetria> http://valhalla.clue.be/~vort/wildlife/monkey3.jpg
[07:06] <Guest48381> Um, no. Is this a help room?
[07:06] <Symmetria> http://valhalla.clue.be/~vort/wildlife/monkey1.jpg
[07:06] <Kilos> with the odd photography and farming chats
[07:06] <Guest48381> Oh, thanks Kilos.
[07:06] <Kilos> yw
[07:07] <Symmetria> guest heh, its a help room but occasionally when no one is talking about ubuntu or asking for help we talk about other crap as well :)
[07:07] <Symmetria> to keep life in the room! :)
[07:07] <Kilos> hi Vince-0
[07:07] <Guest48381> Is unity any good?
[07:07] <Symmetria> heh magespawn that monkey eating the french fry, I gave it the french fry
[07:07] <Symmetria> its quite incredible though, you zoom in and you can see its little thumbnail
[07:08] <Kilos> Guest48381, yip with some getting used to
[07:08] <Kilos> also kubuntu is good
[07:08] <Kilos> hi psyatw
[07:08] <psyatw> hi Kilos
[07:08] <Kilos> also xubuntu and some of the other flavours arent bad
[07:08] <Guest48381> I tried Ubuntu Gnome, software center wasn't very good. So I went back to Fedora.
[07:09] <Symmetria> http://pics.kuvaton.com/kuvei/cameraman_got_owned.jpg <[07:09] <Guest48381> Kilos: Is it any good with a touchscreen ultrabook?
[07:09] <Kilos> do you know ubuntu as when it was still gnome2 Guest48381 ?
[07:09] <Guest48381> Kilos: yes.
[07:10] <Vince-0> Hi Kilos at al
[07:10] <Kilos> ok then to stay similar you can install mate on ubuntu
[07:10] <Kilos> mate is very similar to gnome2
[07:10] <Kilos> fork of gnome2
[07:12] <Guest48381> I prefer gnome-shell, Kilos. But thanks.
[07:12] <Guest48381> I wanted to try Ubuntu with Unity, but I heard it has Amazon spyware features.
[07:12] <magespawn> Guest48381: those can be removed
[07:13] <Guest48381> Opt out? It should be opt in
[07:13] <Guest48381> Shuttleworth is killing gnu/linux
[07:13] <magespawn> not so much "spyware" as real time commercial adverts from Amazon based on search queries, local and internet
[07:13] <magespawn> agreed is should be opt in
[07:13] <magespawn> s/is/it
[07:16] <Guest48381> Thanks Kilos, magespawn. Bye.
[07:16] <Kilos> also you can install 12.04 LTS Guest48381 no amazon to worry there and still years of support
[07:16] <Kilos> visit again Guest48381
[07:16] <Guest48381> Will do.
[07:16] <magespawn> Guest48381: come by again sometime
[07:16] <Guest48381> How many rooms/channels are on this chat?
[07:16] <Kilos> visit full time too if you like
[07:17] <Guest48381> hahahha
[07:17] <Guest48381> I just might.
[07:17] <Kilos> we live here
[07:17] <Guest48381> hehe
[07:17] <Kilos> hehe
[07:17] <Kilos> we also have an afrikaans channel
[07:17] <magespawn> Symmetria: spray something like amonia on/around the camera to stop lions doing that
[07:17] <Kilos> aw
[07:17] <magespawn> expensive snack
[07:18] <Kilos> yay at least her wasnt a chatmosphere okey
[07:19] <Kilos> he
[07:19] <Symmetria> hrm, this is kinda neat, adobe doesnt whine when I install the cloud suite on my desktop and my mac notebook
[07:23] <magespawn> one of the benefits of a cloud licence
[07:24] <Symmetria> needed the thing installed on my macbook for tethered shooting
[07:24] <Symmetria> certain things arent practical to shoot non-tethered
[08:02] <Kilos> hi Vince-0 morgs
[08:03] <morgs> hi Kilos
[08:04] <Kilos> inetpro, see , 37 nicks
[08:16] <magespawn> not all active Kilos
[08:16] <Kilos> no matter\
[08:17] <Kilos> only 4 sleeping
[08:17] <magespawn> just means you cannot retire, they have to all be active
[08:18] <Kilos> maybe i must stir the pot on the tweet place
[08:18] <Kilos> lol nice try
[08:18] <magespawn> besides is you leave then it is onlu 36
[08:18] <magespawn> s/onlu/only
[08:19] <Kilos> nice to see wizzy here again after so long. hi wizzy
[08:19] <magespawn> always good to have people coming back
[08:19] <Kilos> hmm...
[08:33] <superfly> hi Kilos, magespawn, morgs
[08:33] <Kilos> morning superfly
[08:33] <morgs> hi hi
[08:36] <magespawn> hey superfly
[08:57] <Kilos> hi Tinuva
[08:58] <Kilos> 38
[08:59] <ThatGraemeGuy> belated morning all
[08:59] <superfly> ohi ThatGraemeGuy
[08:59] <magespawn> mine only says 37 Kilos, Maaz and Chanserv can't be counted
[08:59] <magespawn> howdy ThatGraemeGuy
[09:00] <Kilos> hi ThatGraemeGuy
[09:00] <Kilos> sigh
[09:00] <magespawn> no rest for the wicked Kilos
[09:00] <Kilos> i spose ubuntulog either
[09:00] <magespawn> of course not, only peeps
[09:00] <Kilos> lol
[09:01] <Kilos> hmm...
[09:03] <nuvolari> o/ aloha
[09:03] <magespawn> hi nuvolari
[09:03] <Kilos> lo nuvolari jy is maar skaars ne
[09:03] <Kilos> hoe gaan dit seun?
[09:03] <nuvolari> hi magespawn, oom Kilos, superfly, ThatGraemeGuy
[09:04] <nuvolari> aan die gang dankie oom
[09:04] <nuvolari> hoe gaan dit met oom?
[09:04] <Kilos> goed dankie
[09:04] <Kilos> net koud
[09:06] <superfly> hi nuvolari
[09:07] <ThatGraemeGuy> 'lo :)
[09:11] <magespawn> nuvolari: you still want to know about the phone or you sorted?
[09:17] <Kilos> hmm... making like he is working
[09:20] <nuvolari> I have the memory of a goldfish these days
[09:20] <magespawn> lol
[09:20] <Kilos> rofl
[09:21] <Symmetria> http://sphotos-d.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/472526_10151553837300528_1457037818_o.jpg
[09:21] <Kilos> the hdd sharing on the list is attracting some attention
[09:21] <Symmetria> hahaha I finally got a photo of my dog
[09:21] <Symmetria> she's petrified of cameras so since she was lying asleep infront of my tripod
[09:21] <Symmetria> and I didnt have to touch anything to get the shot
[09:42] <sfx> hola!
[09:50] <Kilos> ai
[09:50] <Kilos> cooking and being the greeter bot is hard work
[09:51] <Kilos> hi bomberman
[09:51] <Kilos> welcome to ubuntu-za
[09:51] <bomberman> Hi Kilos! Its me Steven :P
[09:51] <Kilos> lol hi there welcome back
[09:52] <Kilos> you well bomberman ?
[09:53] <bomberman> yes man. forgot my other username. haha
[09:53] <Kilos> sflr
[09:54] <Kilos> we actually wondered where you were 2 nights ago
[09:54] <Kilos> but the tweet place got you
[09:54] <Kilos> hehe
[09:55] <bomberman> yeah, that one. I stick with bomberman then :)
[09:56] <Kilos> haha. nice to see you again
[09:56] <Kilos> here that is
[09:56] <Kilos> i only turn on tweet place now and again
[09:57] <bomberman> cool man! yeah, I got you on Twitter :)
[10:23] <Squirm> hello people
[10:23] <Kilos> hi Squirm
[10:24] <superfly> hi Squirm
[10:24] <superfly> hi bomberman
[10:34] <Kilos> i wish seagate diskwizard had verbose googie in
[10:34] <Kilos> goodie
[10:34] <Kilos> i like to see whats happening
[12:16] <Kilos> Maaz, coffee on
[12:16]  * Maaz starts grinding coffee
[12:17] <Kilos> inetpro, coffee time
[12:19] <magespawn> Maaz coffee please
[12:19] <Maaz> magespawn: Okay
[12:19] <Kilos> wb magespawn
[12:19] <magespawn> hey Kilos
[12:19] <magespawn> just in time for coffee
[12:19] <Kilos> why you show as away?
[12:20] <magespawn> i was away
[12:20] <magespawn> just walked back into the sho[
[12:20] <magespawn> shop
[12:20] <Kilos> ah its going again
[12:20] <Kilos> we hit 39 earlier
[12:20] <Kilos> hehe
[12:20] <Maaz> Coffee's ready for Kilos and magespawn!
[12:21] <Kilos> Maaz, ty
[12:21] <Maaz> You are welcome Kilos
[12:21] <magespawn> Maaz botsnack
[12:21] <Maaz> thanks, magespawn
[12:21] <Kilos> hehe
[12:40] <gwood> tumbleweed: hey, i've been trying to get hold of you, you there?
[12:49] <superfly> he's usually around, but might not be at his desk right now
[12:56] <Kilos> hi gwood
[12:56] <Kilos> magespawn, 40
[12:56] <magespawn> pretty cool
[12:58] <psyatw> hello magespawn
[12:58] <psyatw> hi gwood
[12:58] <magespawn> hey psyatw
[12:59] <Kilos> only 5 under our record and that was at a meeting when drubin_  was still here
[13:04] <gwood> ok, thanks superfly
[13:04] <gwood> hi everyone
[13:08] <magespawn> hey gwood
[13:08] <magespawn> going away agian Kilos
[13:08] <Kilos> ok go safe
[13:09] <psyatw> hi superfly
[13:09] <psyatw> fly safely with superfly airways
[13:14] <Kilos> hehe
[13:37] <tumbleweed> gwood: hi
[13:56] <gwood> tumbleweed: hey, was just wondering if you still want me to set you up as an organizer for: http://www.meetup.com/The-Cape-Town-GNU-Linux-Meetup-Group/
[13:56] <gwood> tumbleweed: hey, was just wondering if you still want me to set you up as an organizer for: http://www.meetup.com/The-Cape-Town-GNU-Linux-Meetup-Group/
[13:56] <gwood> tumbleweed: hey, was just wondering if you still want me to set you up as an organizer for: http://www.meetup.com/The-Cape-Town-GNU-Linux-Meetup-Group/
[13:56] <ThatGraemeGuy> o_O
[13:56] <gwood> tumbleweed: so that CLUG events can show up there
[13:57] <gwood> i've setup that meetup, but i've gotten really busy lately, work, moving, etc. So seems a waste to not use that meetup
[14:04] <tumbleweed> gwood: thanks, yes please
[14:05] <tumbleweed> can we give access to the rest of the CLUG committee?
[14:05] <Kilos> hehe looks  like a seroius stutter
[14:06] <Kilos> serious
[14:07] <gwood> tumbleweed: sure, we can do that
[14:27] <Symmetria> http://sphotos-g.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/901030_10151554166635528_292736664_o.jpg
[14:27] <Symmetria> heh the power of a 500mm zoom lens
[15:25] <trender> (.)(.)
[15:26] <trender> take some chik pix Symmetria
[15:38] <acherv> hi
[15:38] <acherv> Kilos, hi
[15:38] <Kilos> hi acherv
[15:38] <acherv> How are you today?
[15:39] <Kilos> cold but good ty and you?
[15:39] <Kilos> very cold here in the tvl
[15:39] <Kilos> where are you?
[15:42] <acherv> sorry
[15:43] <Kilos> np
[15:43] <Kilos> i meant where do you stay?
[15:43] <Kilos> hehe
[15:43] <acherv> joburg
[15:43] <acherv> and you?
[15:43] <Kilos> eeek as cold as here
[15:44] <Kilos> west of pretoria
[15:44] <Kilos> same minimums as jhb normally
[15:44] <acherv> very cold
[15:45] <Kilos> yeah and when you get older your internal combustion goodie dont work as well
[16:02] <acherv> .
[16:27] <acherv> Cantide, hi
[16:28] <Cantide> hello :)
[16:29] <Kilos> hi Cantide
[16:29] <Cantide> hey Kilos :)
[17:23] <Vince-0> whootwhoot
[17:23] <Vince-0> nuvolari: ping
[17:32] <Kilos> lo smile4ever
[17:32] <Kilos> you sound happy Vince-0
[17:32] <Vince-0> yar I'm awake at least
[17:33] <Vince-0> starting a dbnlug hangout in a bit and the turn out looks good
[17:33] <Kilos> ah great
[17:33] <Kilos> when are more of them gonna join us here?
[17:33] <Kilos> buncha slackers
[17:34] <Vince-0> kbmonkey, nuvolari and SmilyBorg are regulars
[17:34] <Vince-0> and they're the ones attending the hangout
[17:34] <Kilos> the monkey and nuvolari been here long time
[17:35] <Kilos> they are our peeps on loan to you
[17:35] <Vince-0> ha!
[17:35] <Kilos> hehe
[17:35] <Vince-0> there's 6 going, 4 maybes and 17 others not responded to the hangout invite
[17:35] <Kilos> acherv, tomorrow fone 183 onna 8ta fone and complain about your connection
[17:37] <Kilos> or if you lucky 187 goes straight to the data peeps
[17:38] <acherv> thx
[17:39] <Kilos> np
[17:39] <Kilos> you just gotta keep revving them
[17:39] <Kilos> or soon we can start tweeting their CEO as well
[17:42] <smile4ever> hi Kilos :)
[17:44] <smile4ever> Evelien sê ek moet Afrikaans me julle praat
[17:44] <smile4ever> :p
[17:44] <smile4ever> Waar is die Afrikaners?
[17:44] <Kilos> lol
[17:44] <Kilos> hulle is op #ubuntu-afr
[17:44] <Kilos> maar rus nog
[17:45] <smile4ever> Kilos: altyd
[17:45] <smile4ever> hulle het baie tyd
[17:45] <smile4ever> ;)
[17:45] <Kilos> nee man hulle werk
[17:45] <smile4ever> is jy seker? :p
[17:45] <Kilos> of eet nou
[17:46] <smile4ever> baie lekker ;)
[17:46] <Kilos> hulle word maar min daar sien ek
[17:49] <Kilos> ohi kbmonkey wb
[17:49] <kbmonkey> greets
[17:49] <Cantide> hai '<
[17:50] <Kilos> 11 days to meeting kbmonkey dont forget
[17:50] <kbmonkey> got it in the calendar Kilos
[17:50] <Kilos> good man
[17:50] <Cantide> oh yeah :)
[17:50] <Cantide> wow, the months fly by 'o'
[17:50] <Kilos> yeah
[17:52] <Kilos> oh my we got three Tonberry s
[17:52] <Kilos> hes been breeding
[17:52] <Cantide> a ton of em
[17:52] <Tonberry> i blame 8ta
[17:52] <Kilos> hehe
[17:52] <Kilos> ah
[17:58] <Kilos> here is their CEO on the tweet place @osmaseko
[17:58] <Kilos> i have just started the ball rolling
[17:59] <Kilos> will see if he replies
[18:19] <Kilos> night all. sleep tight
[18:19] <Kilos> too cold here by the pc
[18:33] <smile4ever> good night
[18:33] <smile4ever> :)
[18:34] <Cantide> good night 'o'
[18:34] <smile4ever> thanks :)
[18:34] <smile4ever> bug
[18:34] <smile4ever> * hug
[18:34] <Cantide> '-';
[18:36] <nuvolari> kbmonkey: ping
[18:36] <nuvolari> we lost you
[18:36] <nuvolari> :-/
[19:04] <trender> yo
[20:27] <Vince-0> owk bed time
[20:37] <trender> yo peeps
[20:39] <trender> so theblezehen has officially fallen of the planet huh
[21:10] <superfly> "fallen of the planet"? my English parser is failing
[21:10] <superfly> Ah, you meant "fallen off the planet"


[03:56] <jam> morning all
[07:49] <t0mb0> this may or may not be an operator specific problem but i'll ask here - how would one ensure a container is secured with TLS? Should the operator framework create an ingress or is that a Juju thing? jam you may know?
[07:50] <t0mb0> I would have imagined that the operator pod would form a http relation with the ingress perhaps?
[07:51] <t0mb0> I've set the charm options juju-external-hostname and kubernetes-ingress-allow-http=true however I'm not seeing any ingresses being created!
[07:55] <t0mb0> note - I am using microk8s not charmed k8s
[08:03] <niemeyer> t0mb0: The answer depends on the charm and the interface being used indeed.. TLS is used by several independent protocols (we're doing IRC over TLS just now)
[08:04] <niemeyer> t0mb0: Is the question specific to microk8s?
[08:05] <jam> t0mb0, have you done "microk8s enable ingress" ?
[08:05] <jam> https://microk8s.io/docs/addons
[08:06] <jam> I believe for Juju itself you need to enable "dns" and "storage" but if the applications you're deploying need other K8s services like an ingress controller, then you need to have those enabled as well.
[08:10] <niemeyer> Morning jam
[08:10] <jam> morning niemeyer
[08:16] <t0mb0> jam, thanks! I believe microk8s enable ingress was what I was looking for
[08:17] <t0mb0> thanks for your input too niemeyer
[08:25] <niemeyer> t0mb0: np, glad it's sorted
[08:44] <jam> hi Chipaca . just in time for me to step out for lunch :)
[08:45] <Chipaca> jam: good morning! buen provecho :)
[08:55] <niemeyer> > We should be consistent on ordering. However, I do believe 'unittest.assertEqual' assumes (expected, actual) ordering. Because if you do:
[08:55] <niemeyer> jam: Added another comment there.. I don't think that's true.
[08:56] <niemeyer> Let's please keep the usual obtained, expected order.. even the examples in unittest.py itself order like that.
[09:03] <niemeyer> Also: https://github.com/python/cpython/tree/3.7/Lib/unittest/test
[09:07] <Chipaca> niemeyer: what should I see in that link?
[09:07] <niemeyer> Tests? :)
[09:07] <niemeyer> Chipaca: It's the tests for unittest itself
[09:07] <Chipaca> ah, gotcha
[09:07] <niemeyer> Chipaca: All of them follow obtained, expected..
[09:08] <niemeyer> So it'd be slightly awkward if the author intended the opposite
[09:08] <Chipaca> i wonder why they chose the diff to go in the opposite direction then
[09:08] <niemeyer> Chipaca: I don't see it as reversed
[09:09] <niemeyer> Chipaca: I actually don't even know what I expect myself in that sense, though, to be honest
[09:11] <Chipaca> fair
[09:11] <jam> so my first hit for: "python unittest assertEqual expected" was that it was "expected, actual" according to xUnit conventions
[09:12] <jam> Python itself carefully says "first, second"
[09:12] <niemeyer> jam: Not so carefully, though.. just read the docstrings of these functions
[09:12] <jam> but the diff does read backward in my head for that. (this has been added / missing relative to?)
[09:13] <niemeyer> self.assertEqual(the_exception.error_code, 3)
[09:13] <niemeyer> This is in the docstring of assert raises
[09:14] <niemeyer> I find ("foo" == var) inverted given years of reading it the other way around, but I wouldn't mind adapting if we were following a pattern.. But we are not.. we'd both be making it awkward based on common style, and on the intended form of the testing library we use, so I'm -1 on it
[09:15] <niemeyer> jam: Isn't xunit coming from Java?
[09:17] <jam> https://bugs.python.org/issue10573 seems to be the bug, mfoord raised the issue of ordering so you get appropriate diffs
[09:17] <jam> https://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2010-December/106954.html is Guido's comment on it
[09:18] <jam> (old, new) matches diff and matches (expected, actual), but intentionally using "first, second" in the code instead.
[09:18] <jam> so, its fine, we can go with unittest's convention, but it does mean that all the diffs are "how expected differs from actual" rather than "how actual differs from expected"
[09:19] <niemeyer> This second link makes me sad..
[09:19] <niemeyer> It's a glimpse of poor leadership..
[09:20] <niemeyer> "Yeah, we do use that ordering in our code everywhere, but people elsewhere use different conventions.. so we don't care.. do whatever."
[09:21] <niemeyer> Multiply that by 3 decades, and bingo..
[09:23] <jam> there is also https://youtrack.jetbrains.com/issue/PY-26471 for the ordering in PyCharm.
[09:24] <jam> And their example tutorial actually puts it as assertEqual(foo, 10), but then prints Expected: 'foo', Actual: 10.
[09:24] <jam> First, Second at least tells you where to look and makes you actually figure out which is expected and what is actual.
[09:24] <jam> I'll clean up Harness.
[09:24] <jam> to conform
[09:25] <niemeyer> Haha, priceless :P
[09:42] <mup_> PR operator#235 opened: test/test_harness.py: Fix the ordering to assume actual/expected <Created by jameinel> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/pull/235>
[11:01] <facubatista> Muy buenos días a todos!
[11:01] <jam> morning facubatista
[11:01] <facubatista> hola jam
[11:11] <niemeyer> Morning Facundo
[11:13] <facubatista> hola niemeyer :)
[11:53] <facubatista> jam, I don't understand your comment about not replacing 'juju_exec_path' in Chipaca's branch
[11:54] <jam> facubatista,         juju_exec_path = juju_exec_path.parent / dispatch_path
[11:54] <facubatista> jam, IIUC, we need to check if the juju_exec_path exist *and if it's not ourselves* (that check still missing), and only then execute it... but if we decide to execute it, we'll replace it, right?
[11:54] <jam> If you replace it, it becomes harder to tell "if it is ourself"
[11:55] <facubatista> jam, but that verification should be done before
[11:56] <jam> facubatista, well, I would expect to be done right around that point, as that is the point you are seeing if it exists and what it points at
[11:56] <Chipaca> yes that check is still missing, fwiw
[11:57] <facubatista> if juju_exec_path.exists() and juju_exec_path.resolve() != Path(sys.argv[0]).resolve():
[11:57] <facubatista> jam, I'd do something like ^
[11:57] <jam> facubatista, sure. my point was that juju_exec_path was already Path(sys.argv[0]), so you could just use it if you don't replace the var first.
[11:58] <facubatista> ack
[12:09] <pekkari> Hi guys, is there currently a path to retrieve the ip address of a unit? Model seems to hint you have to traverse the BindingMapping of the full model if you want so
[12:14] <Chipaca> pekkari: I don't think there is another way
[12:15] <Chipaca> pekkari: i'm not even sure there is an ip address of a unit without reference to a binding, so it's not clear to me this is a deficiency
[12:24] <jam> pekkari, in the juju model, you might be deployed to a machine that has multiple network cards and the operator wants different applications on different interfaces, so you have to go via the binding so the operator can tell you how that piece is configured.
[12:24] <jam> there is no "one true IP" for a unit as a whole
[12:27] <pekkari> yeah, multiple addresses is certainly something I understand, I'm just struggling to find from a charm event the way up to an ip address related to the binding of the relation we run on
[12:31] <jam> pekkari, def _on_changed(self, event): self.model.get_binding(relation_name).network ?
[12:31] <jam> are you in a Charm, or in a separate component ?
[12:32] <jam> binding key can be a relation as well, so if you wanted
[12:32] <pekkari> jam that may be it
[12:32] <jam> self.model.get_binding(event.relation)
[12:32] <pekkari> I'm in a charm, defining the on_identity_service_relation_joined, and there I need the ip of the binding it talks to keystone
[12:33] <jam> pekkari, I don't think you tell Keystone about the network details to keystone. I would expect you to tell keystone about some other binding.
[12:34] <pekkari> erm no, this charm tells it's ip address in the binding to keystone to setup the endpoint url
[12:34] <jam> pekkari, OS traditionally had public/private/admin bindings to describe the application you were deploying, so that would be, self.model.get_binding('public')
[12:35] <jam> pekkari, I would expect that a sysadmin would configure the binding of the keystone endpoint to "how keystone should talk to my app" but what you want to tell Keystone is "how should other apps (eg neutron/nova/etc) talk to my app"
[12:35] <jam> which is not the binding of the relationship to keystone, but a different binding on your charm.
[12:36] <pekkari> that is very true, however hardcoding the public binding makes me wonder if there is a better way to put it
[12:37] <pekkari> certainly may not be a problem, at the end of the day, you only want the service to be reached in public space
[12:38] <jam> pekkari, if its your charm, you define what endpoint you are advertising to keystone
[12:38] <pekkari> it may be right jam, as long as if you want another you can simply configure the public binding to point to another space
[12:38] <jam> if it is "all openstack charms", then you can pass in the name of the public binding in __init__ and have your code track that.
[12:39] <jam> pekkari, correct. that is the point of having an endpoint that sysadmins can bind
[12:39] <pekkari> thanks for the guidance!
[12:53]  * facubatista brb
[12:53] <mup_> PR operator#235 closed: test/test_harness.py: Fix the ordering to assume actual/expected <Created by jameinel> <Merged by jameinel> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/pull/235>
[12:57] <Chipaca> facubatista: didn't #209 fix #198 ?
[12:57] <mup_> PR #209: Enable stderr logging if JUJU_DEBUG is set <Created by jameinel> <Merged by jameinel> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/pull/209>
[12:57] <mup_> Issue #198: DEBUG log messages not emitted <bug> <Created by stub42> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/issues/198>
[12:57] <Chipaca> jam: or you :)
[12:58] <jam> Chipaca, no. I didn't do both at the same time. We still only put INFO messages to juju-log, as it wasn't clear to me if we wanted to change that behavior. I wasn't clear why we didn't default to DEBUG from the start, so I needed to understand that first.
[12:59] <jam> its a trivial change to change the level of that logger
[12:59] <jam> Chipaca, https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/3xf4gPctxV/
[12:59] <jam> its just a question of why was it at INFO to start with, and if we chose to change it, is a small fix for 198
[13:04] <facubatista> jam, Chipaca, we want that by default only INFO messages go to juju, and if charm developer decides to send DEBUG too, to be achievable (users always can control the level they see through `juju debug-log`, anyway)
[13:04] <facubatista> for that behaviour to happen, we need:
[13:04] <facubatista> - the juju handler to be in DEBUG level
[13:04] <facubatista> - the logger to be in INFO by default <-- this is what the charm developer can control
[13:05] <facubatista> I still didn't prepare a branch for #198 because I still do not understand how the charm code could change the log level according to something external, and if we could do that automatically
[13:05] <mup_> Issue #198: DEBUG log messages not emitted <bug> <Created by stub42> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/issues/198>
[13:06] <facubatista> (so the charm would emit INFO or DEBUG according to something, not harcoded)
[13:14] <jam> facubatista, so if we call 'juju-log' then Juju itself will filter based on 'juju model-config logging-config'
[13:14] <jam> facubatista, we could ask for a way for juju to tell us a given unit's logging config, if we wanted to avoid triggering juju-log in the first place
[13:15] <facubatista> jam, but we'd need to ask that for every message, right? as it may change at anytime
[13:15] <jam> facubatista, so it can, but I could say that we don't notice a change inside a single hook execution
[13:17] <facubatista> jam, I like that optimization! JujuLogHandler will stop executing an external process for each message if it makes no sense
[13:17] <facubatista> jam, and all we need to do for that is set the level in JujuLogHandler according to what the config of the unit
[13:17] <jam> facubatista, it would need a juju change, so we'd have to deal with versions-of-juju, etc.
[13:18] <facubatista> if we have it, we use it
[13:18] <Chipaca> facubatista: jam: i think it's an optimisation we can add when/if juju gets the feature
[13:19] <facubatista> it's a good way also to "control the level of the charm"?
[13:19] <facubatista> or there's a better way?
[13:19] <facubatista> my point is:
[13:20] <facubatista> I have 5 units with 5 charms; I call `juju debug-log` with level in DEBUG because I want to see debug messages of *one* of those charms, the rest I want to see them in INFO ... which is the best way to achieve that?
[13:21] <facubatista> jam, which is the unit's logging level by default?
[13:24] <Chipaca> facubatista: juju debug-log --include=theunit ?
[13:24] <Chipaca> The '--include' and '--exclude' options filter by entity. The entity can be
[13:24] <Chipaca> a machine, unit, or application for vm models, but can be application only
[13:24] <Chipaca> for k8s models.
[13:28] <facubatista> Chipaca, that will not show me the other ones ... my point is seeing all of them, one in DEBUG the rest in INFO
[13:28] <facubatista> jam, how do I change the unit's logging config?
[13:29] <jam> facubatista, 'juju model-config logging-config="unit.?=INFO"'
[13:29] <jam> by default 'unit=DEBUG'
[13:29] <jam> you can do
[13:29] <jam> 'juju model-config logging-config'
[13:29] <jam> to see what the default ais
=INFO;unit=DEBUG
[13:30] <facubatista> root?
[13:44] <jam> juju model-config "logging-config=<root>=INFO;unit.unit-postgresql-0=DEBUG;unit=INFO"
[13:44] <jam> facubatista, ^^
[13:56] <Chipaca> parallalysed == paralysed by parallelism
[14:09] <jam> niemeyer, https://github.com/canonical/operator/pull/196 still needs your follow up review
[14:09] <mup_> PR #196: Factor out the Harness changes for test_model.py <Created by jameinel> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/pull/196>
[14:09] <jam> facubatista, I think #230 doesn't have a comment from you yet. but I think I addressed Chipaca's comments.
[14:09] <mup_> PR #230: Testing harness no events for own data <Created by jameinel> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/pull/230>
[14:10] <jam> niemeyer, looking at 196, I see a couple things that I think have been superseded. wait on that one until tomorrow.
[14:11] <niemeyer> jam: ack
[14:11] <jam> Id like to land 230 and then clean up the diff
[14:12] <facubatista> jam, will check
[14:12] <jam> th
[14:12] <jam> thx
[14:13] <Chipaca> travis is slow today
[14:13] <Chipaca> i guess it's because we share org with something else
[14:13] <niemeyer> jam: Added a comment in #230
[14:13] <mup_> PR #230: Testing harness no events for own data <Created by jameinel> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/pull/230>
[14:14] <niemeyer> jam: As I said, looks reasonable overall.. was just curious about that small detail
[14:15] <Chipaca> how reasonable would it be to make it so that, if you execute your charm directly with no JUJU_ stuff defined (or maybe the trigger is running it from a terminal) you get an interactive session?
[14:16] <Chipaca> like ipython with the charm already built for you to play with
[14:16] <jam> Chipaca, so there are a bunch of bits that you'd need (what is your unit name, what app are you, what is your config, etc). that makes it a bit hard to be initialized and interactive  without sufficient context to know what to actually do
[14:16] <jam> what 'hook' are you wanting to run right now.
[14:16] <niemeyer> Chipaca: That sounds like a pretty cool idea
[14:16] <niemeyer> jam: Imagine dropping it in a shell with a Harness
[14:17] <facubatista> that would be neat
[14:17] <Chipaca> if we could do it without a harness even better (but yeah that'd require _some_ JUJU_ stuff
[14:17] <Chipaca> um
[14:17] <jam> niemeyer, I think having a good way to do that is great.  It's hard to do something when there's no data, no CLIs, no ...
[14:18] <Chipaca> yep
[14:19] <Chipaca> i'll try to spec it out a bit more so we can discuss (mostly just with examples of what i'd like to see)
[14:19] <Chipaca> now that i know it's not completely zany :)
[14:20] <niemeyer> Thanks for that
[14:37] <jam> niemeyer, so 'relation.data[entity]' doesn't load that entities data until you do something with it. It actually doesn't even load the data if you do "relation.data[entity]['foo'] = 'bar'" because it doesn't need to know the old content of foo to set it to bar
[14:37] <jam> it only loads it if you access foo, or iterate or len(relation.data[entity])
[14:38] <niemeyer> jam: Makes sense. Would you mind to add a short note stating that, just to remind the next reader?
[14:38] <jam> sure
[14:38] <niemeyer> Thanks!
[14:40] <jam> niemeyer, I confirmed with some debug statements inside the _load when you wouldn't want it to be loaded. :)
[14:41]  * jam heads for EOD
[14:43] <niemeyer> Cheers
[14:43] <niemeyer> jam: Have a good EOD
[15:04]  * Chipaca shakes fist at multipass
[15:07]  * facubatista -> lunch
[15:14] <Chipaca> stub: 👋
[15:15] <Chipaca> stub: is there a usable-for-simple-stuff postgres interface I could use?
[16:00] <Chipaca> facubatista: 2FA shenanigans, i'll be there as soon as it lets me
[16:01] <Chipaca> wait, google signed me out everywhere again
[16:01] <Chipaca> sigh
[16:09] <Chipaca> facubatista: I'm guessing something's come up at your end as well. Let's reschedule.
[16:10] <mup_> Issue operator#231 closed: Harness: Has errors on charms which define action handlers <Created by Vultaire> <Closed by chipaca> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/issues/231>
[16:10] <mup_> PR operator#232 closed: ops.testing.Harness actions metadata support.  (#231) <Created by Vultaire> <Merged by chipaca> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/pull/232>
[16:11] <niemeyer> Chipaca: Is there something holding #203 back still?
[16:11] <mup_> PR #203: ops, test: revert the EventSet change, make EventsBase ObjectEvents <Created by chipaca> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/pull/203>
[16:11] <Chipaca> niemeyer: a review? (and now a deconflict also)
[16:11] <niemeyer> We should make a push to these old PRs through or out
[16:12] <niemeyer> Chipaca: My +1 has 12 days
[16:14] <facubatista> Chipaca, grrr, had the alarm off, sorry
[16:14]  * facubatista is back
[16:29] <Chipaca> facubatista: huh
[16:29] <Chipaca> facubatista: https://github.com/canonical/operator/blob/master/test/test_framework.py#L773
[16:29] <Chipaca> is a bit weird
[16:29] <Chipaca> I think you meant FooEvent(EventBase)
[17:04] <Chipaca> I'm mostly-EOD. Might pop in later to tinker with dispatch a little as i'm behind on where i wanted to be.
[17:04] <Chipaca> 👋
[17:09]  * facubatista brb
[20:01] <facubatista> niemeyer, did you read this? https://setuptools.readthedocs.io/en/latest/pkg_resources.html#entry-points
[20:05] <niemeyer> facubatista: I hadn't, will look in detail tomorrow, thanks!
[20:06] <facubatista> :)
[21:22]  * facubatista eods
[21:59] <mup_> PR operator#203 closed: ops, test: revert the EventSet change, make EventsBase ObjectEvents <Created by chipaca> <Merged by chipaca> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/pull/203>