[04:50] <rdh> hell
[04:50] <rdh> hl;g
[08:51] <davmor2> Guys in Jaunty Netbook remix I have a few questions and suggestions and some graphical bugs I'll add later.  Questions why are there so many dupes in apps? You have 2 dictionaries and 2 email clients.  Why are there a whole bunch of touch screen stufff when I don't know of a touch screen netbook (there may be one, just never heard of it)? Why is it not LPIA and i386 instead?  Suggestions Put the installer in favourit
[09:08] <lool> davmor2: You might want to discuss this with StevenK or njpatel
[09:09] <lool> davmor2: LPIA isn't that useful currently and it causes some compat issues; for instance some users complaiend they can't easily install the skype i386 .debs
[09:10] <davmor2> lool: Thanks for the feedback :)
[09:12] <davmor2> lool: Seems strange not to use the atoms power saving features though I thought that was the whole difference?  But then I also suppose that powersaving has moved on and battery life might be extended in that manner too :)
[09:12] <lool> davmor2: Which power savings features did you have in mind exactly?
[09:13] <davmor2> lool: No I'm saying I thought that was the main difference between i386 and lpia
[09:13] <lool> davmor2: It's not the case; lpia is just tuned slightly differently at the toolchain level: it's targetting i686 instead of i486 (what i386 targets)
[09:14] <lool> davmor2: We plan to go further with kermit
[09:14] <davmor2> lool: ah okay cool
[09:14] <crevette> hello there
[09:17] <crevette> can someone test latest bluez version pushed on my ppa (https://edge.launchpad.net/~bmillemathias/+archive/ppa)
[09:18] <crevette> the previous was crashy
[11:18] <davmor2> Guys graphical icon bug is here https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/336633
[11:33] <ian_brasil_> what is kermit?
[11:34] <tomodachi> its a frog
[11:35] <tomodachi> a puppy from a famous tv-series
[11:36] <ian_brasil_> maybe lool meant koala?
[11:40] <davmor2> tomodachi: try a Muppet or Puppet rather than puppy :)
[11:40] <tomodachi> :)
[11:40] <tomodachi> i wish i could spell
[11:40] <tomodachi> :)
[11:40] <tomodachi> that's what i ment
[11:40] <tomodachi> both puppet
[11:40] <tomodachi> and muppet
[11:40] <tomodachi> :)
[13:08] <lool> ian_brasil: jaunty jackalope => we upload to jaunty, intrepid ibex => we upload to intrepid, kermit koala => we upload to kermit
[13:08] <lool> ian_brasil: Which is why I say "kermit", not "koala"
[13:09] <NCommander> I thought it was karmic.
[13:09] <lool> Right, sorry just checked
[13:09] <lool> It's *karmic*
[13:09] <lool> Which is why I confused people here  :-)
[13:09] <lool> This is what happen when you joke about the name of the next ubuntu, and forget which one is the right one :)
[13:10]  * NCommander hopes when we get to P the animal will be a Phoenix
[13:11] <lool> Wow speculation for 2.5 years ahead
[13:11] <lool> You have time I think
[13:14] <ian_brasil> well i like kermit a lot more than karmic anyway
[13:34] <StevenK> But kermit isn't a description
[13:34] <StevenK> ... it's a protocol
[13:35]  * ogra thought it was a frog
[13:35] <StevenK> It's both
[14:51] <davmor2> StevenK: ping
[20:22] <juliux> ogra: are you comeing to cebit?
[20:22] <juliux> ogra: we need you there;)
[20:22] <juliux> and playya wants to hack with you;)
[20:49] <ogra> juliux, if you arrange the next ubucon at c-base i'm willing to make a deal ;)
[21:01] <juliux> ogra: forgot c-base;9
[21:01] <juliux> ogra: it will be in goettingen again
[21:03] <ogra> :(((
[21:03] <ogra> we were there with the whole dev team, they all were thrilled incl. mark
[21:04] <ogra> we really should do one there, if not this one, next one then :)


[01:28] <xubuntu23w> Hi xubuntu :)  . I've just installed xubuntu eoan daily, and I've noticed again an old issue with the partitioning step of the installer. Is this partitioning tool common with the standard Ubuntu ? I want to know where to report the bug.
[01:34] <xubuntu23w> I will assume that it is common with ubuntu. Bye xubuntu :D
[14:35] <timplaz> Why is it I can change my resolution in all DE except KDE where I am stuck at 800x600 only?
[14:35] <timplaz> running in VirtualBox
[15:51] <xubuntu8w> Hi, guys! There is someone who speaks Russian
[15:52] <xubuntu8w> &
[15:52] <xubuntu8w> ?
[15:58] <gnrp> xubuntu8w: There are separate russian channels
[15:59] <gnrp> xubuntu8w: #ubuntu-ru (though not about xubuntu)
[15:59] <xubuntu8w> thanks!
[17:28] <piterke> witam
[19:15] <jarnos> There seems to be this bug in mplayer of 18.04 https://trac.mplayerhq.hu/ticket/2330


[08:01] <mdke> somerville32: what is meant is that there is no commitment for security updates for xubuntu as there is for the other officially supported flavours. Is that wrong?
[08:02] <somerville32> mdke, Yes.
[08:02] <somerville32> Security updates are provided for main and all of Xubuntu is in main.
[08:03] <mdke> somerville32: so why aren't isos supplied for xubuntu on releases.u.c?
[08:03] <somerville32> mdke, lack of space atm
[08:04] <mdke> is that all?
[08:04] <somerville32> Depends who you ask
[08:04] <somerville32> There is lack of clarity on Xubuntu's status even within Canonical its self.
[08:05] <mdke> tell me more
[08:05] <somerville32> mdke, Well, I asked for xubuntu to be placed on r.u.c
[08:06] <somerville32> I think it was cjwatson who said there was no space after (I forget his irc atm) Matt said it should be.
[08:06] <somerville32> Matt Zimmerman, that is
[08:06] <somerville32> This was back in late-winter/early spring
[08:07] <mdke> I find it strange that space should be an issue.
[08:07] <somerville32> mdke: It is an issue.
[08:07] <mdke> you mean they don't have any hard disks left?
[08:07] <somerville32> They said they were moving to a different sever.
[08:07] <somerville32> I dunno if they have or not
[08:08] <somerville32> But hosting a distribution is not cheap when it comes to hd space
[08:08] <mdke> so that is the only difference between xubuntu and the other flavours?
[08:09] <somerville32> There are three differences.
[08:09] <somerville32> 1. No technical support sold for it (not enough demand at this time)
[08:09] <somerville32> 2. No canonical sponsored developer (Kubuntu was lucky to get and only because there is a market at this time for Kubuntu)
[08:10] <somerville32> 3. It is not hosted on releases.ubuntu.com
[08:10] <somerville32> Canonical supports it like the other flavours but simply isn't looking to make money off of it at this point in time.
[08:11] <somerville32> And besides, Ubuntu and Canonical are _not_ the same entity.
[08:11] <mdke> I'm aware of that
[08:11] <somerville32> Ubuntu is an official flavour regardless if Canonical says so or not. It is up to the Ubuntu community.
[08:12] <mdke> actually, I don't agree. Anyway, what I had in mind was Canonical-guaranteed security updates
[08:12] <mdke> and if you're telling me that xubuntu gets those, I'll remove it
[08:12] <mdke> but you should address 3, I can't see any logical reason for it, if what you've said is right
[08:12] <somerville32> mdke: I will move forward with that.
[08:12] <somerville32> But I'd like to hear why you feel Canonical has move control over Ubuntu than the Community (ie. Community Council).
[08:13] <mdke> did I say that?
[08:14] <somerville32> You said that you disagreed with the statement that Ubuntu is an official flavour regardless if Canonical says so or not.
[08:14] <mdke> yep
[08:14] <somerville32> sommer, you're saying that Canonical decides which are official flavours.
[08:14] <somerville32> sommer, sorry, stupid auto-nick
[08:14] <mdke> yes
[08:14] <somerville32> mdke: So you're saying that Canonical has move control than Ubuntu over its self.
[08:15] <mdke> no
[08:15] <mdke> I'm saying it does so in relation to whether flavours are official or not
[08:15] <mdke> not in relation to everything
[08:15] <mdke> if there were no guaranteed security updates for Xubuntu, I think that would bring it outside the family of "official supported distributions"
[08:15] <mdke> because Canonical makes that commitment for some flavours
[08:16] <somerville32> Canonical commits to main + restricted
[08:16] <mdke> yes, I know
[08:16] <somerville32> ubuntulog, Kubuntu, Xubuntu, and Edubuntu are all derived from the same repository.
[08:16] <somerville32> One moment while I reconfigure xchat.
[08:17] <mdke> I'm aware of all these things
[08:17] <mdke> and Gobuntu too
[08:17] <somerville32> So where is the lack of clarity?
[08:19] <mdke> what?
[08:19] <somerville32> Do you understand why Xubuntu is an officially supported flavour of Ubuntu?
[08:20] <mdke> yes
[08:20] <somerville32> Wonderful :)
[08:21] <posingaspopular> hey all, i just changed the xubuntu hardy docs assignments page to include the topics i hope to work on. i wasn't sure how to do the actual status bar though.  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Documentation/HardyAssignments
[08:21] <posingaspopular> the topic background color i should say
[08:22] <somerville32> Did you try using the existing table cells as an example?
[08:24] <posingaspopular> somerville32: yea... i duno how to do that really?
[08:25] <posingaspopular> erm,that'snot a question sorry
[08:26] <somerville32> posingaspopular, I'll take a look.
[08:26] <posingaspopular> thanks cody
[08:26] <somerville32> np
[08:27] <posingaspopular> actually, you probably know my brother: Admiral_Chicago
[08:27] <posingaspopular> he helped with the docs last release i think
[08:27] <somerville32> I do :)
[08:29] <posingaspopular> oh cool. im going to visit him on friday. he's giving a talk about OS's and virtualization
[08:30] <posingaspopular> my CS teacher agrees that his talk will be more interesting than the lecture on friday... kinda sad to be honest
[08:31] <somerville32> hehe
[08:32] <posingaspopular> they put me in the 'non CS major, omg you can't code' class that everyone has to take.
[08:33] <posingaspopular> but i might minor in CS, so im going to be taking more classes anyway. assembley programming is going to be the suck though
[08:37] <posingaspopular> i see the changes. thanks somerville32
[08:42] <somerville32> posingaspopular, Could you update https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Documentation ?
[08:42] <somerville32> The desktop guide is obsolete
[08:42] <somerville32> and a more prominent link to the hardy assignment page would be awesome :)
[08:43] <posingaspopular> is there a 7.10 link?
[08:44] <somerville32> One sec.
[08:44] <somerville32> Actually, mdke would be the guy to ask about that
[08:44] <posingaspopular> he's idle atmtoo
[08:46] <somerville32> posingaspopular, Also, help.ubuntu.com/community is void of a Xubuntu page/centre
[08:46] <somerville32> ie. Our community wiki docs don't actually exist yet
[08:47] <posingaspopular> yes i see
[08:47] <posingaspopular> can we put a 'goals for hardy' section
[08:47] <posingaspopular> and put that into the to do list?
[08:48] <posingaspopular> or will that be done before the next release?
[08:48] <somerville32> I'm not sure what you mean.
[08:48] <somerville32> Goals for the documentation team?
[08:48] <posingaspopular> yea, in terms of what docs should be finished
[08:48] <somerville32> Isn't that what the Hardy assignment page is for?
[08:49] <posingaspopular> or some other form of 'get help.com/community
[08:49] <posingaspopular> i guess
[08:49] <posingaspopular> i duno, it's 3am over ehre
[08:49] <somerville32> Hopefully the xubuntu-doc team will start making use of help.com/community
[08:50] <somerville32> There is a ton of stuff to write about
[08:53] <posingaspopular> hmm i dont even see where the desktop guide even is
[08:53] <posingaspopular> i thought we were doing away with the desktop guide completly...since edgy
[08:54] <posingaspopular> how old/relevant is this page https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Documentation/Wiki
[08:55] <posingaspopular> looks like we're coming up on a year without edits on that one
[08:56] <somerville32> posingaspopular, Desktop guide is obsolete.
[08:56] <somerville32> wiki.ubuntu.com is no longer the place for help
[08:56] <somerville32> help.ubuntu.com/community is the new help wiki
[08:56] <posingaspopular> ah i see
[09:00] <posingaspopular> somerville32: thoughts on that Xubuntu/Documentation/wiki page?
[09:02] <somerville32> posingaspopular, That is the team wiki page.
[09:02] <somerville32> Subcomponent of the doc team
[09:02] <posingaspopular> okay. im just wondering why it's been so long without editing
[09:02] <somerville32> It should contain information relevant to member of the doc team working on the community wiki (an official part of our documentation effort)
[09:02] <somerville32> posingaspopular, No one has taken the initiative
[09:03] <posingaspopular> please excuse me if im asking redundant questions, i swear my brain is fried tonight
[09:04] <somerville32> No no
[09:05] <somerville32> np :)
[09:10] <posingaspopular> time to collapse for 5 hours... if you want me to look at/edit any more edit, just ping them to my nick and i'll take a bat to them asap
[09:15] <somerville32> posingaspopular, awesome. thanks for your contributions! :)
[09:16] <posingaspopular> i'll help anyway i can
[18:24] <LaserJock> anybody seen nixternal today?
[18:36] <michaelramm> nope, been on since 8am Central US time, and you are the first post


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[17:47] <archetech> hi can I get a link to upgrade my ubu jammy kernel to 5.18
[17:49] <archetech> or apt command
[18:18] <archetech> nm odroid had a kern


[01:06] -ubottu:#ubuntu-news- ::planet:: Jonathan Riddell: KDSOAP WS-Discovery Client 0.4.0 @ https://jriddell.org/2024/02/21/kdsoap-ws-discovery-client-0-4-0/
[01:06] -ubottu:#ubuntu-news- ::planet:: Jonathan Riddell: Oxygen Icons 6 Released @ https://jriddell.org/2024/02/21/oxygen-icons-6-released/
[01:06] -ubottu:#ubuntu-news- ::planet:: Alan Pope: Exodus Bitcoin Wallet: Follow up @ https://popey.com/blog/2024/02/exodus-bitcoin-wallet-follow-up/
[01:07] -ubottu:#ubuntu-news- ::planet:: Ubuntu Blog: Preview Confidential AI with Ubuntu Confidential VMs and Nvidia H100 GPUs on Microsoft Azure @ https://ubuntu.com//blog/preview-confidential-ai-azure
[18:24] -ubottu:#ubuntu-news- ::omg!ubuntu:: Ubuntu 22.04.4 LTS is Available to Download @ https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2024/02/ubuntu-22-04-4-released
[19:24] -ubottu:#ubuntu-news- ::omg!ubuntu:: CrossOver 24 Released with UI Buffs, Office 365 Installer Fixes @ https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2024/02/crossover-24-released-run-office-365-linux
[19:58] <guiverc> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-announce/2024-February/000299.html
[19:58] <guiverc> (I'll massage ^ for fridge when I can)
[21:07] <guiverc> https://fridge.ubuntu.com/?p=10095&preview=true   up for review ; 22.04.4 ...   I'll return in an ~hour & check again
[21:11] <krytarik> guiverc: Lgtm!
[21:12] <guiverc> thanks krytarik , appreciated.
[21:14] <guiverc> https://fridge.ubuntu.com/2024/02/22/ubuntu-22-04-4-lts-released/
[21:17] <guiverc> tweeted, shared to telegram (22.04.4)
[21:27] <guiverc> 22.04.4 posted (mewe) & finally fb.
[22:42] -ubottu:#ubuntu-news- ::omg!ubuntu:: Warp, a Rust-Based Terminal with AI, is Now Available on Linux @ https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2024/02/warp-terminal-official-linux-release


[00:13] <RenatoSilva> where should I look for 1.16.1 source? here in https://code.launchpad.net/~bzr/bzr/1.16, or in trunk?
[00:13] <LarstiQ> RenatoSilva: I'd download the 1.16.1 tarball?
[00:14] <LarstiQ> maybe I don't get what you're after
[00:14] <mzz> there's a "download" button on bazaar-vcs.org, the source tarball is not far from there
[00:14] <RenatoSilva> LarstiQ: 1.16.1 in in 1.16 or trunk?
[00:14] <RenatoSilva> mzz: oh you're here too
[00:14] <mzz> or do you mean you want a bzr branch?
[00:15] <RenatoSilva> mzz: I want to browse with loggerhead
[00:15]  * LarstiQ blinks
[00:15] <LarstiQ> okay
[00:15] <RenatoSilva> someoneme must know which next version is in trunk
[00:15] <LarstiQ> RenatoSilva: then the url you pasted sounds like the choice, bzr.dev/trunk has moved quite a bit since 1.16
[00:15] <RenatoSilva> if 1.17 or 1.16.2
[00:15] <LarstiQ> RenatoSilva: never 1.16.2
[00:15] <mzz> this'd be easier if launchpad loaded
[00:16] <LarstiQ> RenatoSilva: 1.16.2 will be made from the 1.16 branch, not the development focus
[00:16]  * LarstiQ still doesn't get what the goal is
[00:16] <RenatoSilva> LarstiQ: so anything under 1.16 will be in the 1.16 branch right?
[00:17] <mzz> RenatoSilva: yes, that's what the 1.16 branch is for
[00:17] <RenatoSilva> LarstiQ: the goal is browsing <IP_ADDRESS> source code in launchpad, that simple
[00:17] <RenatoSilva> ok thanks
[00:17]  * mzz wonders if loggerhead does tags
[00:17] <LarstiQ> RenatoSilva: well, the 1.16 branch might have moved a little from 1.16.1, but it's the closest
[00:18] <mzz> most recent commit there is "Tweak NEWS file for 1.16.1 release."
[00:18] <mzz> so probably not
[00:18] <RenatoSilva> LarstiQ: humm, so there's not a "static" branch for 1.16.1...
[00:19] <mzz> RenatoSilva: there should be a tag, but I don't see any tags in loggerhead
[00:19] <RenatoSilva> mzz: when loggerhead implement tags we'll be able to do it
[00:20] <mzz> RenatoSilva: anyway, the head of the 1.16 branch should be it. Trying to confirm but it'll take a bit.
[00:20] <LarstiQ> RenatoSilva: I don't think it's really useful, but I'll look around to see if there is
[00:20] <RenatoSilva> LarstiQ: tags? there's not
[00:21] <LarstiQ> no, a 'static' 1.16.1
[00:21] <RenatoSilva> ah ok
[00:21] <RenatoSilva> mzz: bug 246739
[00:22] <mzz> and "bzr tags -d lp:bzr/1.16" isn't working very well either
[00:23] <LarstiQ> mzz: what goes wrong with that?
[00:23] <mzz> LarstiQ: it takes forever
[00:23] <mzz> LarstiQ: well, it grabbed a few MiB worth of data if I can trust the progress indicator, then I aborted it
[00:23] <mzz> I'm just pulling the branch, but it'll take a while because of the slowness of the network partition I'm pulling it into
[00:24] <LarstiQ> RenatoSilva: https://edge.launchpad.net/bzr/1.16/1.16.1 just has the release files
[00:24]  * LarstiQ checks branches
[00:24] <LarstiQ> but I'm pretty sure we don't do branches for point releases
[00:25] <RenatoSilva> LarstiQ: where did you find this link, it's not listed in 1.16 series
[00:25] <RenatoSilva> LarstiQ: ok got it, sorry
[00:25] <LarstiQ> RenatoSilva: launchpad.net/bzr, click on the 1.16.1 link in the series canvas thingy
[00:27]  * RenatoSilva is trying bzr tags -d lp:bzr/1.16, slow too
[00:27] <RenatoSilva> is it downloading the branch or only the .bzr?
[00:27] <RenatoSilva> to where?
[00:28]  * mzz frowns
[00:28] <LarstiQ> the branch is a subset of .bzr
[00:28] <mzz> either this repo is a lot further behind than I realised or I'm doing something stupid with repository type mismatches.
[00:28]  * LarstiQ looks at what cmd_tags does
[00:32] <LarstiQ> a cursory glance looks like it really shouldn't be slow to get the tags
[00:33] <RenatoSilva> it is in 3082KB, no progress in bar
[00:33] <RenatoSilva> seems to be downloading a big stuff
[00:34] <mzz> my "bzr branch" is now at revision 800/6292, and looks like it'll take a while still.
[00:34]  * LarstiQ tacks on a -Dtransport
[00:34] <mzz> I don't know how much of that is the bzr+ssh I'm downloading through and how much is the sshfs I'm downloading onto, but the latter is probably significant.
[00:34] <mzz> I really should switch that to something faster one of these days.
[00:35] <LarstiQ> mzz: why do you have things set up like this?
[00:37] <LarstiQ> oh boy
[00:37] <mzz> LarstiQ: I have my repositories sitting on a server on my lan. I should upgrade that to nfs instead of an sshfs though.
[00:38] <mzz> (they're treeless repositories, with lightweight checkouts sitting on my local drive)
[00:39]  * RenatoSilva just download the source, and found C code o.O
[00:39] <LarstiQ> RenatoSilva: there are python fallbacks, so you can run in pure python
[00:40] <LarstiQ> RenatoSilva: but the C (generated from pyrex) is faster for a couple of bits
[00:41] <mzz> it runs well enough as pure python that it took people a bit of time before they realised the release tarballs were missing the c files (twice, iirc) :)
[00:41] <RenatoSilva> LarstiQ: pyrex? you mean all the C code is entirely generated from python code??
[00:42] <LarstiQ> RenatoSilva: pyrex code is not exactly pure python code. But yeah, mostly.
[00:42] <LarstiQ> there used to be some pure C too though, not sure if we still have that
[00:42] <RenatoSilva> ok
[00:42] <LarstiQ> for the patience diff algorithm I think
[00:43] <LarstiQ> RenatoSilva: see the *.pyx files
[00:43] <mzz> mmm, so if I have a lightweight checkout and the thing it is bound to moves around, how do I re-bind it to the new location?
[00:44] <dash> bzr bind or bzr switch
[00:44] <mzz> "bzr bind newlocation" is giving me "bzr: ERROR: Not a branch: oldlocation/.bzr/branch"
[00:44] <mzz> as is "bzr switch"
[00:44] <dash> oh, lightweight. i'd be switch
[00:44] <dash> it'd
[00:44] <mzz> as is "bzr switch --force", and bind doesn't have a --force
[00:44] <RenatoSilva> LarstiQ: I see.. the generated C code is crazy
[00:44] <mzz> I can just edit .bzr/branch/location, but that's lame.
[00:46] <james_w> LarstiQ: thanks
[00:55] <RenatoSilva> mzz: I'm reading commands.py...it seems that the only encoding_type value supposed to cause an error is 'strict', but the xmloutput has no command set as 'strict'
[00:55] <mzz> RenatoSilva: iirc that's what my patch changed
[00:56] <LarstiQ> RenatoSilva, mzz: try tags with --show-ids
[00:56] <RenatoSilva> most of them are 'replace', which is supposed to replace with '?' the problematic chars, instead it was raising an error
[00:56]  * RenatoSilva just noticed the tags command finished
[00:57] <LarstiQ> the slow part is the revno lookup
[00:57] <mzz> LarstiQ: duh
[00:57] <RenatoSilva> where does it put the downloaded files?
[00:58] <LarstiQ> RenatoSilva: where does what?
[00:58] <mzz> RenatoSilva: it *was* replacing them with ? when you were feeding it unicode (which was written in the wrong encoding)
[00:58]  * LarstiQ is falling asleep
[00:58] <mzz> RenatoSilva: it only started erroring once you started explicitly feeding it utf-8 encoded bytes
[00:58] <LarstiQ> could one of you file a bug on tags doing that lookup stupidly, and assign it to me?
[00:58] <RenatoSilva> LarstiQ: it seems to download a lot of files
[00:58] <LarstiQ> RenatoSilva: yes but what
[00:59] <LarstiQ> RenatoSilva: `bzr tags` will not put anything anywhere
[00:59] <mzz> LarstiQ: later, I'm also kinda sleepy
[01:00] <RenatoSilva> mzz: yes, and 'replace' should try to decode from utf-8 and encode as cp850, and when it fails it should get the problematic chars and replace them with '?', not raise the error to the user, right?
[01:00] <RenatoSilva> LarstiQ: so what are those KB growing up
[01:01] <LarstiQ> RenatoSilva: as I said, naive revid → revno lookup
[01:01] <mzz> RenatoSilva: no. With "replace" it expects you to feed it unicode, which it'll encode as cp850. Feeding it utf-8 is unsupported and will blow up as soon as it's non-ascii.
[01:01] <mzz> which it did.
[01:01] <LarstiQ> RenatoSilva: try --show-ids to see the difference
[01:01]  * mzz is fairly certain he understands what the commands api wants you to do here now.
[01:01] <mzz> well, mostly
[01:01] <RenatoSilva> LarstiQ: ok, but it seems files being downloaded, the message could be fetching revisions instead
[01:01] <mzz> RenatoSilva: exactly, which is what he wants a bug filed on
[01:02] <LarstiQ> RenatoSilva: fsvo files, nothing that would be in your working dir
[01:03] <RenatoSilva> mzz: "replace - put in a bogus character (typically '?')"
[01:03] <mzz> RenatoSilva: yep, *if* you're feeding it unicode. Once you start feeding it bytes it's free to blow up, that's not the intended use.
[01:03] <LarstiQ> not bogus, and always '?', on purpose
[01:03] <RenatoSilva> LarstiQ: fsvo?
[01:03] <LarstiQ> RenatoSilva: for some value of
[01:04]  * LarstiQ sleep now
[01:04] <RenatoSilva> mzz: humm
[01:05] <mzz> RenatoSilva: up until you mentioned "bzr" yesterday I was assuming your "stdout" was sys.stdout. What a non-'strict'-mode bzr command gets isn't sys.stdout.
[01:05] <RenatoSilva> mzz: ?
[01:06] <RenatoSilva> mzz: when I don't use > file, isn't it using sys.tdout?
[01:06] <RenatoSilva> mzz: it's a file with encoding == cp850, which makes me think it's the terminal
[01:06] <mzz> RenatoSilva: it's using sys.stdout wrapped in an object from the codecs module that encodes unicode before handing it to the actual sys.stdout
[01:07] <RenatoSilva> mzz: it encodes to the encoding set in outf right?
[01:07] <RenatoSilva> mzz: in sys.stdout I mean
[01:07] <mzz> RenatoSilva: http://docs.python.org/dev/library/codecs.html#streamwriter-objects that is
[01:09] <mzz> RenatoSilva: logic for finding the encoding is in bzrlib.osutils.get_terminal_encoding, which does indeed look at sys.stdout.encoding
[01:17] <RenatoSilva> why do you say 'replace' expects to receive unicode objects? how can it know that certain unicode char is not supported by the target encoding? does it really know? does it really analyze each char and check against the target encoding? when I was not sending utf-8, sometimes it was sent raw cp850 to encode as cp850, and sometimes it was sending unicode (the dir path). In this last case, you mean ‡Æ was a replacement caused by by encoding_type = 'repla
[01:17] <RenatoSilva> sorry for the typos
[01:20] <RenatoSilva> http://pastie.org/534468 --> this description is a bit confising
[01:21] <RenatoSilva> strict - abort if we cannot decode -- decode an unicode obj???
[01:22] <RenatoSilva>  exact - do not encode sys.stdout -- so who will encode? because unicode chars are not actual bytes
[01:22] <mzz> you weren't sending raw cp850, it would've failed the same way it did when you sent raw utf-8
[01:23] <RenatoSilva> ok, always unicode
[01:23] <mzz> and I was confused, my patch used 'exact', right?
[01:23] <RenatoSilva> yes
[01:23] <mzz> patch used exact, so it got the actual unwrapped stdout, which it then wraps using codecs.getwriter (just like bzr would do for us) *but* using utf-8 as the encoding instead of using the terminal encoding.
[01:24] <RenatoSilva> I mean 'replace' should replace çã with ?? not ‡Æ
[01:24] <mzz> the problem was that the characters you were asking it to write *were* available in the terminal encoding (iirc cp850) but the bytes they were mapped to meant something else in whatever encoding whatever you used to view the result used.
[01:25] <RenatoSilva> hummm, because N++ does not supoport cp850
[01:25] <RenatoSilva> and no editor I've ever seen ...
[01:25] <mzz> I don't know if it doesn't support it, but it wasn't using it when reading the file.
[01:26] <mzz> and even if it did the file would be lying: the contents of the file would mention the utf-8 encoding, which it isn't actually encoded in.
[01:27] <RenatoSilva> and when I send str objects when using 'replace' it will try to decode and encode again?
[01:27] <RenatoSilva> decode from get_encoding?
[01:27] <mzz> you read that "what every programmer must..." page you were linked to, right?
[01:28] <RenatoSilva> it seems that I didn't
[01:28] <mzz> that page wasn't python-specific, but it's a bit hard for me to explain this if you haven't at least skimmed that article, or are already familiar with what's described in it.
[01:28] <RenatoSilva> I was linked to?
[01:28] <mzz> I think you were, sec
[01:29] <mzz> http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/Unicode.html is the one I meant
[01:29] <RenatoSilva> oh I read this in the past
[01:29] <RenatoSilva> Joel is boring
[01:29] <RenatoSilva> but I want to read it again
[01:30] <mzz> basically what's passed around inside bzr is usually python unicode objects, which are sequences of unicode codepoints
[01:30] <RenatoSilva> I think my problem here is just to understand how encoding_type, unicode/str and write work together
[01:31] <RenatoSilva> mzz: I think I 've got what are u''s and ''s
[01:31] <RenatoSilva> mzz: and encode and decode
[01:31] <RenatoSilva> mzz: I just don't get how u''/'' and encoding_type and write work together
[01:32] <mzz> that article explains what code points are to some extent. Anyway, like most good bzr commands this one is passing around unicode objects, and they're *correct* (which I checked by having you print the repr of one)
[01:32] <RenatoSilva> I mean, for each encoding
[01:32] <RenatoSilva> sorry
[01:32] <RenatoSilva> for each encoding_type x for each in (unicode, str), what is the behavior of write?
[01:32] <mzz> the command layer then assumes that you're usually running commands interactively, and that most commands deal in unicode, not bytes (aka str) objects
[01:34] <mzz> so unless you use a nonstandard mode the "output" you get from the commands layer wants *unicode* objects which it *encodes* to bytes using the terminal encoding (which it gets off sys.stdout.encoding or some other place)
[01:34] <mzz> normally this works pretty well
[01:35] <mzz> this was all bzrlib stuff. There's also a general python rule to be aware of: if you pass something a str where a unicode is needed or vice versa python implicitly converts using the ascii encoding, which means it'll blow up unless there aren't any accented or other weird characters in there.
[01:35] <RenatoSilva> mzz: I think if I read the right code I will be anwered
[01:36] <mzz> so if you're using this mode of the command layer you *cannot* write in a different encoding: you can convert to bytes, but then python will go and decode those back to unicode when bzr tries to helpfully encode using the terminal encoding, which you don't even want!
[01:36] <RenatoSilva> if you pass something a str where a unicode is needed or vice versa python implicitly converts using the ascii encoding, which means it'll blow up unless there aren't any accented or other weird characters in there. ---> oh I didn't know that, I thought it was a bzrlib stuff!!!
[01:36] <mzz> no, that's a python thing
[01:37] <RenatoSilva> big news to me
[01:38] <mzz> what's happening is basically '\xc3\x88'.encode('cp850') (try that one in an interactive python prompt)
[01:40] <mzz> I forgot what character you were using, but let's assume it's u'\xc8' (which is an E with a ` on it). If you .encode('utf-8') that you get '\xc3\x88'. Your stdout then tried to .encode('cp850') that.
[01:40] <RenatoSilva> mzz: so when I was sending cp850 bytes, python was decoding from preferred encoding (cp850), and then bzrlib was encoding again as preferred encoding (cp850)? :D
[01:40] <mzz> but you can't encode '\xc3\x88': it's already a str. So python tries to convert it back to unicode using the ascii encoding.
[01:40] <mzz> that's what happened when you stuck that explicit .encode('utf-8') in there, and you started getting UnicodeDecodeErrors
[01:41] <mzz> what happened when you did get output, it just didn't look right in n++, was that n++ was guessing the encoding wrong
[01:41] <mzz> guessing encodings is very hard (except for a few of them)
[01:42] <mzz> and yes, bzr was decoding and encoding using the preferred *terminal* encoding (cp850) but you weren't actually looking at the file on the terminal.
[01:42] <mzz> it *should* have shown up correctly with the output to the terminal, not a file.
[01:43] <mzz> If that *also* failed python was getting the terminal encoding (sys.stdout.encoding) wrong.
[01:43] <RenatoSilva> "So python tries to convert it back to unicode using the ascii encoding." ---> Hummm!!!!!!!
[01:46] <mzz> all this works much better in python 3, where that implicit conversion was removed
[01:46]  * mzz wantssssss it
[01:47] <RenatoSilva> mzz: n++ has ANSI, UCS and UTF8, there's no cp850, and notepad.exe does not have this either
[01:47] <RenatoSilva> mzz: I've heard all strings are unicode in py3k
[01:48] <mzz> unsurprisingly there's still a "bytes" type (similar to the py2 "str" type), and what's called the "str" type in py 3 is similar to the "unicode" type in py 2. There's no type called "unicode" in py 3.
[01:49] <mzz> more important than the name change is that those implicit conversions went away. The implicit conversions are annoying that you don't realise they're happening as long as your input is ascii (unaccented chars), and that's pretty common when you're coding in english.
[01:51] <RenatoSilva> mzz: If that *also* failed python was getting the terminal encoding (sys.stdout.encoding) wrong. --> by falied you mean wrong chars in _terminal_?
[01:52] <Pegasus_RPG> hello. How can I search a repo for the latest revision of a now-deleted file?
[01:52] <mzz> Pegasus_RPG: there's a "heads" command in bzrtools that may be of use
[01:52] <mzz> Pegasus_RPG: err, wait, I misread that
[01:52] <mzz> Pegasus_RPG: the file's gone but you just need to go backwards in history to get it back, right?
[01:53] <Pegasus_RPG> correct, I still want everything else to be current
[01:53] <mzz> RenatoSilva: yep
[01:53] <RenatoSilva> mzz:  unsurprisingly there's still a "bytes" type (similar to the py2 "str" type), and what's called the "str" type in py 3 is similar to the "unicode" type in py 2. There's no type called "unicode" in py 3.  ----> looks nice, someone cleaned the bedroom
[01:53] <mzz> RenatoSilva: note that (assuming an ntfs filesystem) the filenames on disk aren't actually cp850 :)
[01:54] <RenatoSilva> mzz: they're cp1252
[01:54] <mzz> RenatoSilva: yep, that's what py3 is all about. py2 can't fix things like this because it tries to be backwards compatible.
[01:54] <RenatoSilva> I guess
[01:54] <mzz> RenatoSilva: they shouldn't be.
[01:54]  * mzz looks up the on-disk encoding name
[01:54] <RenatoSilva> should be what?
[01:54] <Pegasus_RPG> mzz: correct, I still want everything else to be current
[01:54] <RenatoSilva> mzz: a python function returns cm** or so... but I thought it just meant cp1252
[01:55] <mzz> RenatoSilva: hopefully utf-16 on disk, but you shouldn't have to care about that. Try sys.getfilesystemencoding()
[01:56] <mzz> Pegasus_RPG: mmm, I don't quite remember how to do that. Sec.
[01:56] <RenatoSilva> mzz: sys.getfilesystemencoding() == 'mbcs'
[01:56] <Pegasus_RPG> mzz: to add another wrinkle, I'm working on a branch. the file was deleted back in trunk awhile ago
[01:56] <RenatoSilva> mzz: should be some MS UCS
[01:56] <Pegasus_RPG> (When trunk was in svn. :) )
[01:57] <mzz> Pegasus_RPG: shouldn't really matter, I think, assuming this is a bzrsvnified branch
[01:57] <Pegasus_RPG> it is
[01:59] <mzz> bleh, is launchpad really slow or does it just not like me?
[02:00] <mzz> ah, I have an idea
[02:00] <mzz> or rather the help does
[02:00] <RenatoSilva> mzz: lp has been slow to me too these days
[02:00] <mzz> Pegasus_RPG: can you find a revision that file existed at?
[02:00] <Pegasus_RPG> I was hoping bzr could tell me :)
[02:00] <mzz> Pegasus_RPG: if you do you should be able to "bzr log -rthatrevision.. -p thefile.txt"
[02:01] <mzz> Pegasus_RPG: from "bzr help log": "To log a deleted file, specify a revision range so that the file existed at the end or start of the range."
[02:01] <Pegasus_RPG> ok
[02:01] <Pegasus_RPG> I could just give it an insane range
[02:02] <mzz> yeah, exactly
[02:02] <Pegasus_RPG> ok thanks
[02:02] <mzz> if you give an open-ended range with one end at a spot where it exists I'd expect it to pick it up
[02:02] <RenatoSilva> mzz: thank you for helping
[02:02] <mzz> Pegasus_RPG: there's also a bzr-undelete thing, but launchpad won't divulge further information to me
[02:02] <Pegasus_RPG> RenatoSilva: sorry for interrupting
[02:03] <mzz> Pegasus_RPG: lp:bzr-undelete, not sure if it's useful or works.
[02:05] <Pegasus_RPG> ok bzr log found it thanks!
[02:09] <Pegasus_RPG> oop, now I need to get that file without messing up my existing checkout
[02:10] <Pegasus_RPG> do I just bzr cat it to a new file?
[02:10] <Pegasus_RPG> or can I preserve the history some other way?
[02:11] <mzz> I don't remember if "bzr revert -rblah old/rev/filename" works, but I'd expect it to.
[02:11] <mzz> "bzr help revert" says it should work.
[02:13] <Pegasus_RPG> sweet it did. thanks!
[02:16] <RenatoSilva> Pegasus_RPG: you did not
[02:16] <RenatoSilva> Pegasus_RPG: interrupt
[02:19]  * RenatoSilva 'll brb
[04:25] <RenatoSilva> how to apply a single patch? it's being rejected...
[04:26]  * RenatoSilva used raw patch tool
[04:39] <RenatoSilva> Created new stacked branch referring to /~verterok/bzr-xmloutput/trunk.
[04:39] <RenatoSilva> what's this?
[04:54] <AfC> Wow. bzr 1.16 feels a lot ... slower. So I tried Robert's strace trick, and saw Bazaar spending ~0.3s trying to unlink .pyc files.
[04:58] <AfC> Yeah. time bzr-1.15.1 status = 0.19s. time bzr-1.16.1 status = 0.89s. Bloody hell.
[08:56] <spiv> D'oh, missed AfC.  That's almost certainly an issue with stale .pyc files, which would be a packaging/installer bug.
[09:46] <Glenjamin> is there a seprate channel for bzr-svn issues?
[09:58] <Glenjamin> aha
[09:58] <Glenjamin> nailed the bug:
[09:58] <Glenjamin> request.auth is an empty dict if a URL redirects
[10:06] <Glenjamin> ok, reproducible as well
[10:06] <Glenjamin> bzr info http://glenjamin.co.uk/other/bzr/menudjen/
[10:07] <Glenjamin> this redirects to a page which is protected by http auth, which then throws a keyerror
[16:38] <Youssef> Hi GUYS!!!!
[16:38] <Youssef> i come to report a bug!
[16:43] <Peng_> ......
[18:07] <gioele> suppose I change a single byte in a text file with very long lines (100k bytes per line). Will bzr save a one-byte difference or will it save the whole line?
[18:09] <Peng_> gioele: Unless you're using the development6-rich-root or 2a disk formats, with C extensions compiled, deltas will be line-based.
[18:12] <SamB> Peng: ... why doesn't the Python implementation do line-based deltas?
[18:12] <SamB> er. I mean, why does it?
[18:24] <Peng_> SamB: Simplicity, I imagine, and maybe performance.
[18:25] <Peng_> I'm pretty sure I'm right, but I'd kinda like to verify it.
[18:26] <SamB> I thought the Python code was supposed to always have the same results as the C code :-(
[18:28] <Peng_> SamB: It is compatible, just not as small.
[18:29] <SamB> that seems like it could be a serious issue :-(
[19:19] <Peng_> SamB: In what way?
[21:56] <RenatoSilva> bzrlib/transport/__init__.py lines 1535 - 1557
[21:56] <RenatoSilva> could you help me to understand this code? I'm trying to fix a bug
[22:00] <thumper> abentley: I don't suppose you are working on a take-changes for pipelines ATM are you?
[22:00] <thumper> abentley: did you see my blog post about pipelines? wrote it last night
[22:01] <RenatoSilva> Is any xmoutput folk here?
[22:02] <LarstiQ> RenatoSilva: starting with the _urlRE regex?
[22:05] <thumper> grr
[22:05] <thumper> somehow bzr 1.16.1 package trumped the daily ppa build
[22:05] <RenatoSilva> LarstiQ: line 1569: base = base.encode('ascii')
[22:05] <thumper> now I have bzrtools requiring bzr 1.17 and an "old" bzr
[22:05] <RenatoSilva> LarstiQ: isn't it dangerous?
[22:06] <RenatoSilva> LarstiQ: that's the cause, when you use non-ascii paths thios code causes an error
[22:07] <LarstiQ> thumper: hmm
[22:07] <LarstiQ> thumper: can you list the version numbers involved?
[22:07] <LarstiQ> RenatoSilva: no
[22:07] <thumper> LarstiQ: for the currently installed bzr?
[22:08] <thumper> Version: 1.16.1-1~bazaar1~jaunty1
[22:08] <LarstiQ> RenatoSilva: the interface for get_transport is that you pass it an URL
[22:08] <LarstiQ> RenatoSilva: URLs _must_ be in ascii. This is a check that no one is passing unicode when they shouldn't
[22:08] <RenatoSilva> LarstiQ:  :param base: either a URL or a directory name.
[22:08] <LarstiQ> thumper: and the daily package?
[22:08] <RenatoSilva> LarstiQ: # Only local paths can be Unicode
[22:08] <RenatoSilva> LarstiQ: and it is
[22:09] <LarstiQ> RenatoSilva: right, then it tries convert_path_to_url
[22:09] <RenatoSilva> LarstiQ: humm, it is passing a local Unicode URL...
[22:09] <thumper> LarstiQ: 1.16+4508+117 I think
[22:10] <LarstiQ> thumper: ok, so I think the version on that is bogus then
[22:11] <thumper> james_w: you are the only one in the changelog
[22:11] <RenatoSilva> LarstiQ: xmloutput is... how can I convert the non-ascii chars? it is already an URL, so will urlutils.local_path_to_url() work?
[22:11] <thumper> james_w: is your script doing this?
[22:11] <thumper> I know nothing about deb version numbers
[22:11] <thumper> except for that they sometimes go screwy
[22:13]  * thumper runs bzr from trunk until the package gets worked out
[22:13] <eggy_> Hello, when I locally clone a bzr repository, it works, but when I do it over bzr+ssh I get 'bzr: ERROR: Not a branch: ...'
[22:13] <RenatoSilva> eggy_: wrong address?
[22:14] <eggy_> RenatoSilva: hmm, maybe. Doesn't it start at my home directory?
[22:14] <RenatoSilva> eggy_: you're cloning from lp?
[22:15] <eggy_> RenatoSilva: from lp? I dunno, I did 'bzr clone bzr+ssh://myhost/relative/path/from/home/directory/to/repo'
[22:15] <eggy_> But I now see that if I prepend home/user it works
[22:16] <LarstiQ> RenatoSilva: urls should not have unicode. See bzrlib.urlutils
[22:16] <eggy_> To the relative path that is
[22:16] <LarstiQ> thumper: I think it's johnf not james_w?
[22:16] <LarstiQ> eggy_: it's an absolute path
[22:17] <LarstiQ> eggy_: /~/ and you get relative to your home directory, however the sftp server interprets that
[22:17] <eggy_> LarstiQ: ah, ok, thanks
[22:20] <fullermd> Not on bzr+ssh it won't...
[22:20] <RenatoSilva> LarstiQ: I't trying to use urllib.quote
[22:21] <LarstiQ> fullermd: ah, didn't pay attention enough...
[22:21] <RenatoSilva> LarstiQ: bzrlib.urlutils.escape?
[22:22] <LarstiQ> RenatoSilva: bzrlib.urlutils.normalize_url might be more appropriate
[22:26] <RenatoSilva> LarstiQ: ok
[22:56] <mwhudson> jelmer: hi
[22:57] <mwhudson> bzr merge $svn-branch -r revid:revid-not-in-branch stack traces
[22:57] <mwhudson> jelmer: is this a known bug?
[22:59] <jelmer> mwhudson: depends on the stack trace :-)
[23:04] <mwhudson> jelmer: it's not very exciting, it shouldn't be an internal error i think
[23:04] <mwhudson> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/210699/
[23:04] <mwhudson> jelmer: ^
[23:04] <mwhudson> (maybe it's a bzr bug)
[23:08] <mwhudson> jelmer: slightly clueless report of the same problem: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/bzr-svn/+bug/395906
[23:08] <mwhudson> :)
[23:23] <jelmer> mwhudson: yeah, that's a bzr bug. it should be handling NoSuchRevision
[23:24] <mwhudson> jelmer: ok
[23:25] <lifeless> mmm
[23:25] <lifeless> npt sure I agree
[23:26] <lifeless> an error in fetch is fatal and bad
[23:26] <jelmer> lifeless: wrt the bug I mentioned?
[23:26] <jelmer> lifeless: "bzr merge -rrevid:foo" blows up in the same way
[23:26] <jelmer> lifeless: without bzr-svn involved anywhere
[23:27] <lifeless> yeah
[23:27] <lifeless> perhaps the revid: revspec should do validatio
[23:27] <lifeless> n
[23:27] <jelmer> yeah, that'd make sense. it would mean we didn't have to handle NoSuchRevision in various cmd_* classes in bzrlib.builtins


[01:28] <lfaraone> kamalm: the package is not marked as maintained by you, it seems somebody (probably you) assigned it to ~registry
[01:29] <kamalm> lfaraone: that's certainly possible.  :-)  I wonder if its possible for me to get it back somehow.
[01:30] <lfaraone> kamalm: contact the registry administrators! :)
[01:34] <kamalm> lfaraone: hmm.  The only contact link for https://launchpad.net/~registry seems to be sabdfl.  Is that really the right person to send such a request to!?
[01:34] <lfaraone> Team details             Email<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[01:35] <lfaraone> kamalm: ask a question in launchpad: https://answers.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad/+questions
[01:35] <kamalm> is mdzdevnull@ an actual person?  (the devnull made me think otherwise).  I will ask in +questions -- thanks!
[08:00] <jussi01> hrm, anyone about with launchpadlib experience that could write a small script for me?
[08:03] <wgrant> jussi01: What does it need to do?
[08:04] <jussi01> wgrant: grab all the irc nicks from a certain set of teams.
[08:05] <wgrant> I should have guessed...
[08:05] <jussi01> *G*
[08:05] <wgrant> Recursively, I guess?
[08:06] <jussi01> hrm?
[08:06] <persia> Nick of members of teams that are members of teams should also be included?
[08:06] <jussi01> wgrant: I have https://edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-irc-devel-channels/+participation and https://edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-irc-channels/+participation - the teams listed there I need a list of irc nicks from.
[08:07] <wgrant> jussi01: What persia said.
[08:07] <jussi01> persia: wgrant, yes.
[08:07] <wgrant> I suppose you'll be wanting members of sub-teams.
[08:10] <jussi01> my head is exploding. :)
[08:11] <shadeslayer> hi is there a PPA admin here?
[08:11] <jussi01> ok, let me explain the end use, and then you can tell me what I need. I want to fix the +V list in #ubuntu-ops. the list is everyone who is a member of the teams I showed you there.
[08:12] <persia> wgrant: Assume that jussi01 will answer "yes" to all the questions, and you'll probably end up with something close to what he seeks :)
[08:12] <wgrant> shadeslayer: What do you need done?
[08:12] <wgrant> persia: I have, and I'm testing the script now.
[08:12] <wgrant> But LP are sloow.
[08:12] <shadeslayer> wgrant: well this is regarding chroot problems on machines
[08:12] <persia> And I even stopped eating bandwidth, mostly.
[08:13] <shadeslayer> wgrant: i uploaded 4 packages yesterday,3 of them had chroot problems
[08:13] <wgrant> shadeslayer: Link to build log?
[08:13] <shadeslayer> wgrant: um one sec
[08:13] <shadeslayer> wgrant: gone,since i retried the build
[08:14] <wgrant> If the build succeeds, then there is no problem. It was a transient issue.
[08:14] <shadeslayer> wgrant: all it said was unpacking source,failed to connect to time server
[08:14] <wgrant> Right, that would be a transient network issue.
[08:14] <wgrant> Nothing to worry about -- just retry them.
[08:14] <shadeslayer> wgrant: actually shouldnt there be some mechanism to retry that build automatically of that happens?
[08:15] <wgrant> shadeslayer: Probably, yes. But automatically detecting all cases where that is a good idea is not easy.
[08:16] <shadeslayer> wgrant: hmm.. well i was thinking if it could be done by a script on the servers which just checks a few basic things to start with,like the transient network issue
[08:18] <wgrant> shadeslayer: But there's nothing anywhere that says "transient network issue".
[08:19] <shadeslayer> wgrant: no i mean like checking for the network time update stuff
[08:23]  * wgrant curses Lucid r600 hardlocks.
[08:28] <wgrant> jussi01: Looks like IRC nicks should be available anonymously on edge as of a few minutes ago.
[08:28]  * wgrant tries.
[08:28] <jussi01> wgrant: excellent :)
[08:33] <wgrant> jussi01: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/394559/
[08:33] <wgrant> Just give it a team name as the first arg.
[08:34] <jussi01> wgrant: excellent!
[08:34] <wgrant> Due to perfect timing it works anonymously now when it wouldn't have 15 minutes ago.
[08:35] <jussi01> wgrant: 2 things, which libs do I need installed, and can I give it more than one team name at a time?
[08:35] <wgrant> jussi01: You just need python-launchpadlib.
[08:35] <wgrant> Why would you want to give ore than one? How would you split the results?
[08:36] <jussi01> wgrant: I just need a collective list atm ;)
[08:37] <jussi01> but all good. thisl work :)
[08:37] <jussi01> wgrant: every one who is a member of those teams should have +V in #ubuntu-ops, Im trying to get a list of nicks I need to give +v ;)
[08:38] <wgrant> jussi01: Ah. One sec.
[08:38] <persia> jussi01: It's recursive.  Feed it ~ubuntu-core-irc-channels
[08:38] <jussi01> oh, that works also? excellent.
[08:38]  * wgrant forgot about that team.
[08:39] <jussi01> hrm, that didnt quite go as expected...
[08:39] <wgrant> What happened?
[08:39] <jussi01> http://paste.ubuntu.com/394563/
[08:41] <jussi01> I guess its because it didnt grab the members of the teams that team is a member of...
[08:41] <wgrant> Oh, that team is the wrong way around for that to work.
[08:41] <jussi01> yeah
[08:42] <wgrant> Multi-team version pasting now...
[08:42] <wgrant> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/394565/
[08:42] <jussi01> ok, thanks :)
[08:42] <wgrant> Just give it as many args as you need.
[08:46] <jussi01> awesome. may I ask for one tiny thing more? (if its tiny, if its big, feel free to tell me to go away). Is there a way to filter it so the entries only appear once? ie. If I am a member of more than one team, it only lists my name once, not one time for each team im a member of?
[08:46] <wgrant> It should do that already.
[08:46] <wgrant> Unless launchpadlib is being stupid.
[08:47] <wgrant> Which is not impossible.
[08:48] <jussi01> wgrant: http://paste.ubuntu.com/394567/
[08:51] <wgrant> jussi01: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/394569/
[08:51] <persia> jussi01: | sort -u is probably easiest.
[08:51] <persia> jussi01: You might also want a | grep freenode in there
[08:52] <jussi01> persia: nah, because not everyone lists freenode
[08:53] <persia> wgrant: The trick is that a person can belong to a team via multiple paths, given your algorithm, this causes duplication (unless I misunderstand python's set() )
[08:53] <wgrant> jussi01: Those people are bugs and will complain/fix when their access is revoked, no?
[08:53] <wgrant> persia: It wouldn't be a problem in Launchpad code, but launchpadlib appears to create multiple objects for the same URL.
[08:53] <wgrant> I had guessed that it would reuse the same object like ORMs tend to.
[08:54] <persia> Aha, so there is a bug.  This makes sense.
[08:54] <persia> (but a bug in lplib)
[08:54] <wgrant> Not necessarily. launchpadlib doesn't have transaction guarantees.
[08:55] <persia> Oh, so it makes sense to have potentially two objects, as they contents may differ at runtime.
[08:55] <wgrant> Right.
[08:59] <jussi01> wgrant: seems to work now! thanks very very much :)
[08:59] <wgrant> jussi01: No problem.
[08:59] <wgrant> I hope your Launchpadifying of privileges goes well.
[09:00] <jussi01> wgrant: yeah, its coming along. :D
[09:03] <crimsun> err, edge is being extremely ... edgy
[09:04] <wgrant> crimsun: Contentless OOPSing on some pages?
[09:04] <crimsun> yes
[09:04] <wgrant> Yeah, known.
[09:04] <wgrant> If it's problematic for you, disable the redirect.
[09:06] <crimsun> I just used the shiny ajaxy status change instead of the drop-down status radio button + message
[13:48] <yofel> hey, any news on bug 538097 today?
[13:49] <yofel> and which LP project should we assign this to as well?
[13:49] <yofel> as only the main DB seems broken, uploading to staging.lp.net works fine
[13:49] <persia> Do we know it's an LP bug?  If so, let's just stick it in "launchpad", and one of the LP triagers will put it in the right place.
[13:50] <yofel> persia: well, I'm not sure, but is 'HTTP Error 500: Internal Server Error' a bug in apport?
[13:51] <persia> no, probably not :)
[13:51] <yofel> ok, then I'll add a task against launchpad itself
[14:43] <shadeslayer> hi is there a way to check how many people use my ppa
[14:45] <slytherin> Regarding release management - Is it possible to change description of existing file?
[18:45] <kamalm> Launchpad problem:  https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnuradio yields a "Not allowed here" error.   I think the package is moving from multiverse to universe (possibly right now), which might relate.
[18:46] <kamalm> for reference, bug 538491
[18:47] <jpds> kamalm: Sounds like bug #535001
[18:48] <jpds> Works fine for me on edge.
[18:48] <crimsun> converting bug reports into questions fails for me on edge
[18:48] <crimsun> (sadly, worked around by disabling redirect)
[19:00] <kamalm> jpds: thanks for the pointer -- yes, it does look like the same problem.  I've added a comment to 514824.
[19:01] <kamalm> randomaction: ^^
[19:01] <randomaction> kamalm: yes, I have the same symptoms
[19:55] <slytherin> Hi, we are having some problem with release management for our application. It seems old releases are still getting downloaded. Is it possible to find which third party sites are linking to these?
[20:00] <blueyed> Known? bug 538097 - Apport cannot connect to crash database
[21:09] <blueyed> arch linux task tracker is not supported: http://bugs.archlinux.org/task/18478 ?!
[21:09] <blueyed> via https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/x264/+bug/538555
[23:50] <mikelifeguard> Hi guys. I'm looking at http://bugs.launchpad.net right now - should I be able to submit a bug report here? I don't see a way to do it
[23:51] <nhandler> mikelifeguard: What are you trying to file a bug about?
[23:52] <mikelifeguard> screen
[23:53] <mikelifeguard> I'm surprised Canonical's UI people didn't think to provide a link here - the user should be able to fill in their bug report including an ajax search field for the project/package/whatever
[23:55] <jpds> mikelifeguard: "One project:" → "screen" → Search ?
[23:55] <mikelifeguard> isn't that searching for already-existing bugs?
[23:56] <wgrant> How did you get to bugs.launchpad.net?
[23:56] <nhandler> mikelifeguard: Well, in any case: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/screen/+filebug is what you want
[23:56] <mikelifeguard> wgrant: by typing?
[23:57] <wgrant> I don't think that's what you want.
[23:57] <wgrant> You want to file a bug on the Ubuntu package, right?
[23:57] <mikelifeguard> I'm supposed to have guessed https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/screen/+filebug ?
[23:57] <mikelifeguard> I'm smart, but I'm not that smart
[23:57] <wgrant> No, you were supposed to find a link there.
[23:57] <mikelifeguard> ok, from where?
[23:58] <wgrant> Are you wanting to file a bug on screen itself, or the Ubuntu package of screen?
[23:58] <mikelifeguard> the ubuntu package
[23:58] <wgrant> Then you should follow the Ubuntu bug reporting instructions.
[23:58] <wgrant> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ReportingBugs


[02:16] <jrwren> start -v mongodb says start: Job failed to start
[02:16] <jrwren> there are no logs anywhere that I can find. Where to look?
[02:17] <sarnold> try /var/log/upstart/mongo* ?
[02:17] <jrwren> nothing in /var/log/upstart/ nothing in /var/log/syslog
[02:17] <jrwren> sarnold: I wish :(
[02:17] <Patrickdk> just run mongo manually and see what happens
[02:18] <jrwren> Patrickdk: works great :(
[02:18] <sarnold> jrwren: you could try running fatrace to see what files are accessed
[02:18] <jrwren> even invoking with start-stop-daemon the way the upstart job does works great.
[02:18] <Patrickdk> you are running it as the same user as the init script uses?
[02:18] <jrwren> fatrace is a good idea.
[02:18] <jrwren> start-stop-daemon has a user option, so yes?
[02:21] <jrwren> even adding debug to init/mongodb.conf gives no log
[02:21] <sarnold> anything in dmesg?
[02:22] <sarnold> I understand if the numa memory allocation policy isn't set correctly for mongo it'll just fall over with an oom
[02:23] <jrwren> nothing obvious. this is in an lxc and so dmesg is showing me host stuff. Still, nothing with a recent timestamp
[02:24] <jrwren> and mongo runs fine if I invoke it manually. upstart seems to be the problem?
[02:25] <shellox> hi
[02:26] <sarnold> oh man that pokes a neuron..
[02:26] <jrwren> sarnold: there is an issue with running mongo in a host if its already running in lxc, but this is not that :(
[02:27] <shellox> I'm using a ubuntu server 14.04, nginx and php-fpm and was wondering where the best place is to install a php application? One developer will need access to it using sftp, so i was thinking /srv/www/my-app and give him access to this directory
[02:27] <sarnold> jrwren: ah! that's what it was. thanks....
[02:27] <shellox> is that a sound way to do it :P?
[02:28] <sarnold> shellox: yeah, it's as good a place as any. debian guidelines might suggest stuffing it somewhere under /var/www but I never really liked that location for locally installed web applications.
[02:28] <sarnold> jrwren: but dang. :)
[02:30] <jrwren> is there a way to put upstart into super debug mode?
[02:31] <jrwren> or /sbin/start into debug verbose++ mode?
[02:31] <shellox> sarnold: Is it good practice to add a user to the www-data group, so he has write access to directory?
[02:33] <sarnold> shellox: I'd rather have the directory and files owned by the developer, and make sure the www-data user or group can read the files. I think webservers should only have write access to their log files and databse sockets...
[02:33] <Patrickdk> webservers shouldn't have to write to them ever
[02:33] <Patrickdk> your cgi/fcgi might have to, and should be limited
[02:34] <Patrickdk> it's nice to do something like git or so
[02:34] <Patrickdk> and just have it continuously get updates pushed to it
[02:35] <Patrickdk> no need to worry about dev owning files
[02:36] <jrwren> strace of the /sbin/start is a bit interesting
[02:36] <jrwren> http://paste.ubuntu.com/11216946/
[02:37] <Patrickdk> not really, to be expected
[02:37] <Patrickdk> as strace doesn't follow forks
[02:38] <jrwren> yeah? the EAGAIN on reads to the /com/ubuntu/upstart socket is to be expected?
[02:39] <Patrickdk> can't tell, it's all ...
[02:39] <Patrickdk> but I don't see that
[02:39] <jrwren> i'll paste again with -f and -s 1024
[02:39] <Patrickdk> it sent a message, it worked
[02:40] <shellox> sarnold: I see, that sounds plausbile. Thanks
[02:40] <jrwren> http://paste.ubuntu.com/11216993/
[02:41] <Patrickdk> looks like it's working fine
[02:42] <sarnold> I didn't suggest strace since I expected it to be useless; iirc start just contacts the running pid 1 and asks -it- to start a new job, and upstart uses ptrace extensively when starting new jobs, and .. throw containers inthe mix and I really doubt strace will demystify anything.
[02:43] <jrwren> ok. maybe trace pid 1?
[02:43] <Patrickdk> no
[02:43] <sarnold> I haven't got a clue if that's allowed, and I wouldn't try it on a system I needed to stay alive :)
[02:43] <Patrickdk> you need to trace the mongodb pid
[02:43] <jrwren> mongo is fine.
[02:43] <jrwren> there is no mongo pid
[02:43] <Patrickdk> sure there is
[02:43] <jrwren> if I start mongo manually, it runs
[02:44] <jrwren> if I start mongo by using start-stop-daemon exactly as is in the upstart script, it runs.
[02:44] <jrwren> upstart is failing.
[02:44] <sarnold> maybe throw the strace -f on that start-stop-daemon
[02:44] <jrwren> but that actually works.
[02:44] <jrwren> oh, on it in the upstart job?
[02:44] <sarnold> again, since upstart uses ptrace I'm worried it might not be helpful...
[02:48] <jrwren> oh!
[02:48] <jrwren> this is a user lxc
[02:48] <jrwren> and mongodb upstart jobs has
[02:48] <jrwren> limit nofile 64000 64000
[02:48] <jrwren> which failed
[02:49] <jrwren> strace -p 1 showed me.
[02:49] <jrwren> that was it.
[02:49] <sarnold> woo!
[02:49] <jrwren> HUGE thanks for helping.
[02:49] <jrwren> i don't know if that is a bug or not.
[02:49] <sarnold> it seems worth filing a bug report
[02:49] <jrwren> ok.
[02:49] <sarnold> but I don't know if it ought to be filed against lxc, mongo, or upstart :)
[02:50] <jrwren> ha! that was about to be my next question
[02:50] <sarnold> heck file it against all three ...
[02:50] <jrwren> i'll have to learn how to LP to file 1 bug against all 3.
[02:51] <sarnold> file it against one package, then hit the "also affects distribution/package" button, and add in another one in the 'source package name' field
[02:51] <jrwren> thanks.
[02:53] <sarnold> time to bail, have fun jrwren :)
[02:53] <jrwren> thanks again. good night.
[06:05] <hxm> morning
[06:07] <hxm> i had some problems with mysql, so i unninstalled every mysql packages, i am trying to install mysql-common and it says /etc/mysql/my.cnf.fallback does not exists
[06:07] <hxm> indeed, i deleted that directory
[07:42] <rbasak> hxm: purge mysql-common first. Otherwise it'll keep your "modifications".
[07:43] <rbasak> hxm: in fact, make sure to purge *all* MySQL related packages if you're going to go to the extreme of removing stuff manually first.
[08:29] <shellox> which permission should the key file for my SSL cert have?
[08:29] <shellox> i found this guide
[08:29] <shellox> https://help.ubuntu.com/lts/serverguide/certificates-and-security.html
[08:29] <shellox> and copied it to /etc/ssl/private
[10:13] <Sander^work2> In what circumstances is it required to have nfs shares inside a subdir like this: /nfs/host1/share1 and nfs/host2/share2/ instead of having everything in /nfs/share1 and /nfs/share2
[11:50] <hxm> I have this problem http://paste.ubuntu.com/11223995/ which is a headache for me
[11:52] <hxm> in the /var/log/mysql/error.log the relevant line is ERROR: 1062  Duplicate entry 'innodb' for key 'PRIMARY'
[11:53] <hxm> i thought i already deleted database
[14:07] <rbasak> matsubara_: around? Would you mind driving SRU verification for bug 1443735 for me please? It'll be a while yet - an existing SRU needs to clear before I can upload it and it'll probably sit in the SRU queue for a while after that anyway, but I thought I'd ask you in advance.
[14:07] <rbasak> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/grub2/+bug/1443735
[14:07]  * rbasak wonders where the bot is.
[14:10]  * matsubara_ looks
[14:13] <matsubara_> rbasak, ok. I can do that
[14:15] <rbasak> matsubara_: thanks!
[14:26] <Voyage>  how to write automated scripts for linux with max possibilities and control?
[14:27] <jrwren> Voyage: very carefully.
[14:27] <Voyage> jrwren,  in what way
[14:27] <jrwren> Voyage: that is how I write automated scripts. I do it very carefully.
[14:28] <Voyage>  you know scripts that would do stuff that I do in commandline. rsync ssh, copy files, change configs, connect to another server, do stuff, return back. what ever.......
[14:29] <Voyage> how to do it?
[14:29] <Voyage> how do you write those
[14:30] <Voyage> jrwren,  bash or what?
[14:30] <Voyage> I heard doing this with pythong was a smarter way
[14:31] <jrwren> Voyage: bash is fine. its nice to have easy access to gnu coreutils things.
[14:31] <jrwren> Voyage: I recommend you start with bash and use something else only if you need it.
[14:31] <Voyage> cant python do what bash can?
[14:31] <jrwren> Voyage: I love python too. I'd not call it "a smarter way"
[14:31] <Voyage> why
[14:32] <jrwren> Voyage: it depends.
[14:32] <jrwren> Voyage: you'll find in tech, a lot of people have strong opinions and like to tell others what they should be doing without any idea of individuals actual needs.
[14:33] <jrwren> Voyage: because many things can be done simply in bash which aren't quite as simple in python, or... require some external python dependency.
[14:33] <Voyage> hm
[14:35] <Voyage> can anyone give an example of things that cannot be done by bash and we need python to do so?
[14:37] <jrwren> Voyage: there are no absolute answers to these qeustions.
[14:37] <jrwren> Voyage: python can spawn threads, bash doesn't have primitives for that
[14:37] <jrwren> Voyage: BUT, python has its GIL, so threads aren't as useful.
[14:38] <jrwren> Voyage: I highly recommend focusing on solving problems isntead of worrying about differences between python and bash.
[14:40] <Voyage> hm
[14:45] <hackeron> hey, anyone has an issue with Ubuntu 15.04 not rebooting without a connector monitor? - Any ideas what could be causing it? -- 14.10 rebooted without issues.
[14:46] <hackeron> (I'm using ubuntu-server, so no X and I would like to run headless)
[14:53] <rbasak> hackeron: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/grub2/+bug/1443735 maybe?
[14:54] <rbasak> You should be aware of that and implement the workaround on every headless box anyway. We should have an update which fixes the default soon.
[14:54] <hackeron> rbasak: no, not that one - I already have this set on every headless server
[14:54] <hackeron> rbasak: this is related to 15.04 and I am guessing maybe systemd - plugging in a monitor makes the server instantly boot
[14:55] <rbasak> hackeron: that's interesting
[14:56] <rbasak> hackeron: if you figure it out, please let me know. Maybe try a serial USB adaptor to diagnose if that works?
[14:56] <hackeron> rbasak: I commented on that original bug back in 2011
[14:57] <hackeron> rbasak: the server is remote somewhere, I am speaking to them on skype and when I reboot the server, it doesn't boot - as soon as a monitor is plugged in, it boots up - nothing in the logs other than:May 19 15:45:20 TimeBox rsyslogd: [origin software="rsyslogd" swVersion="7.4.4" x-pid="1055" x-info="http://www.rsyslog.com"] exiting on signal 15.
[14:57] <hackeron> May 19 15:53:14 TimeBox rsyslogd: [origin software="rsyslogd" swVersion="7.4.4" x-pid="1653" x-info="http://www.rsyslog.com"] start
[14:58] <hackeron> the rsyslogd start happens the instant a monitor is plugged in - and this did not happen in 14.10
[15:26] <rbasak> hackeron: nothing in dmesg?
[15:26] <hackeron> rbasak: nope, the kernel starts booting the instant the monitor is plugged in - it appears to get stuck in grub
[15:26] <rbasak> Ah
[15:27] <rbasak> The only logging you'd get from grub is to the console really (practically that means serial)
[15:28] <hackeron> trying to boot with nomodeset - but not sure how that will help, if it never starts booting without a monitor :/
[15:29] <hackeron> rbasak: don't have a serial console though - what do they look like these days anyway? - I only have USB ports, heh
[15:31] <rbasak> hackeron: yeah I understand. Nowadays the only form I'm aware of are USB<->serial adaptors. I have no idea if grub can use one of those though.
[15:31] <hackeron> rbasak: even so, what do I connect to the serial end of the adapter?
[15:31] <rbasak> hackeron: a smartphone video of the screen is another possibility, but also impossible here because your screen won't be plugged in
[15:31] <rbasak> hackeron: another usb serial adaptor :)
[15:31] <hackeron> rbasak: the second I plug a monitor in, it boots :/
[15:31] <rbasak> Yeah
[15:32] <rbasak> VGA?
[15:32] <hackeron> rbasak: yep
[15:32] <rbasak> The only other thing I can think of is to cut the DDC pins with a switch for debugging
[15:33] <rattking> I alot of OOB managment systems do SOL, some ever provide access via ssh.. very nice compared to some java kvm
[15:33] <rbasak> It seems a bit of a stretch though I think DDC is the only way grub would know when the monitor gets plugged in
[15:35] <hackeron> rbasak: hmmm, if I set all the GRUB timeouts to 0 (effectively disabling the menu), it seems to boot, or at least it booted now - trying to reboot
[15:35] <rbasak> hackeron: maybe also play with https://www.gnu.org/software/grub/manual/html_node/gfxpayload.html?
[15:36] <hackeron> rbasak: well, I donno what monitor may or may not be plugged in, so I don't want to hard code anything like that
[15:37] <hackeron> rbasak: and this worked fine in 14.10 - so it seems something in grub between 14.10 and 15.04 broke headless boot on Intel Atom and Intel Celeron machines like Shuttles and NUCs - not good
[15:39] <rbasak> hackeron: I was thinking of changing it to "text".
[15:39] <rbasak> hackeron: agreed it's not good. If it can be verified as a bug in grub or grub packaging I'm confident that it'll get fixed. Just need to pin it down.
[15:41] <hackeron> rbasak: will try - this server is in Moscow and I'm in London so coordinating is hard - I have around 70 servers, around 15 of them are experiencing this. Going to change the grub timeouts on them to 0 as a workaround, then assemble one locally and see if I can pin it down
[15:41] <rbasak> hackeron: thanks, I appreciate it.
[15:46] <hackeron> rbasak: no worries :) - also it seems setting timeouts to 0 isn't enough - it also needs GRUB_HIDDEN_TIMEOUT_QUIET=false
[15:47] <rbasak> hackeron: you are doing BIOS serial console redirection, are you?
[15:48] <rbasak> aren't doing
[15:48] <hackeron> what's that? - I'm not doing anythign special - I did do-release-upgrade to 15.04 and it stopped booting without a monitor
[15:48] <rbasak> hackeron: fairly common on headless boxes. The BIOS presents a serial device and redirects it to the monitor/keyboard.
[15:49] <rbasak> If that is enabled then I wonder if the BIOS is causing serial output to hang until the monitor is connected for example.
[15:49] <hackeron> rbasak: it's just an NUC
[15:49] <kickinz1> hackeron, rbasak, I also experienced grub stuck at menu, when you run update-grub, there is a error message about GRUB_HIDDEN_TIMEOUT_QUIET  and other related option not supported enabled at the same time anymore
[15:49] <rbasak> I've never handled a NUC physically, so I don't know much about them.
[15:50] <rbasak> I just don't follow why grub would care whether a monitor is plugged in. I didn't expect it to speak DDC.
[15:50] <kickinz1> But I was having problem on making my system boot on a bcache rootfs, so I didn't take too much care of this.
[15:50] <rbasak> So I'm wondering if there's some kind of BIOS interaction going on here.
[15:50] <rbasak> And serial redirection is the first BIOS interaction I thought of that might be relevant.
[15:50] <kickinz1> But why would the fact to connect the display make it start ....
[15:50] <kickinz1> (was on 15.04)
[15:51] <hackeron> rbasak: ok, it seems GRUB_HIDDEN_TIMEOUT_QUIET=false isn't enough - need to remove splash and quiet also -- if the bios is doing that, why would removing splash and quiet and setting GRUB_HIDDEN_TIMEOUT_QUIET=false fix the issue?
[15:53] <hackeron> rbasak: and why wasn't it doing that in 14.10 or 14.04?
[15:53] <rbasak> hackeron: plenty of interactions change between releases. That doesn't necessarily make it a bug in a newer release.
[15:54] <kickinz1> Hackeron; Do you have this warning when you update grub (translated from french): " Setting GRUB_TIMEOUT to a non-zero value if GRUB_HIDDEN_TIMEOUT is set is not possible anymore"
[15:54] <rbasak> hackeron: I am just speculating here. First let's figure out what's going on. Then we can talk about whether it's a bug and where and how it might be fixed.
[15:54] <hackeron> kickinz1: no warnings when running update-grub - I have all timeouts set to 0
[15:54] <rbasak> hackeron: I'm suggesting that if you have BIOS serial redirection turned on, try turning it off to help pin down the bug.
[15:54] <kickinz1> hackeron, OK, sorry fo noise, then.
[15:55] <rbasak> hackeron: I appreciate that's difficult in your situation. It's just a suggestion.
[15:55] <hackeron> rbasak: I very much doubt the NUC has this feature - this is just a tiny mini PC with an intel celeron CPU - also it's in Moscow -- I'll assemble one locally later today and check
[15:56] <rbasak> I have some cheap Atom based boards that do it.
[15:56] <rbasak> Don't NUCs have some basic management as well?
[15:56] <hackeron> rbasak: not that I know of.. - this also happened on a shuttle with an atom which just has defaults loaded in the bios - it's designed as a cheap desktop
[15:57] <hackeron> rbasak: this one: http://www.dabs.com/products/shuttle-slim-xs35v3l-black-barebone-system--atom-d2550-2-x-ddr3-sodi-949D.html?utm_source=google&utm_medium=ppc%20product%20search&utm_campaign=Computing%20-%20Desktops%20and%20Monitors%20-%20Desktop%20PCs&gclid=Cj0KEQjwvuuqBRDG95yR6tmfg9oBEiQAjE3RQNyYMACUOhj9Z06x02P_5OPcqAajBUV7pKRbVrcHVS8aAoM58P8HAQ
[15:57] <hackeron> actually it's a v2 with a VGA: http://us.shuttle.com/barebone/Models/XS35V2.html
[16:05] <teward> with an Apache web server is there a way to refresh the configurations (like how nginx can do `service nginx reload` and refresh the configurations without booting current connections or having the instance shut down)?
[16:05] <teward> (but close down the apache instance)
[16:06] <jrwren> teward: graceful
[16:07] <jrwren> teward: apachectl has a graceful option
[16:08] <teward> jrwren: OK, so that will not require a restart of the Apache process, and will gracefully apply the updated config for future connections without disrupting already connected connections?
[16:08] <teward> that's the problem (can't afford downtime!)
[16:08] <hxm> i have to say ubuntu 15 ruined my day
[16:09] <hxm> joking, but still true
[16:09] <jrwren> https://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.2/programs/apachectl.html  yes
[16:09] <jrwren> " This differs from a normal restart in that currently open connections are not aborted."
[16:09] <teward> jrwren: ahhh, that's hyper important, thanks.
[16:10] <teward> i'm an nginx guy hence my asking :/
[16:10] <teward> :P
[16:10] <teward> jrwren: stupid other question: what's the syntax to enforce SSL server side ordering in a config.
[16:10] <teward> in nginx it's ssl_prefer_server_ciphers, but no clue what it is in Apache
[16:10] <teward> (getting stuff dumped on me is blah)
[16:12] <jrwren> teward: SSLHonorCipherOrder on
[16:12] <jrwren> teward: https://httpd.apache.org/docs/current/mod/mod_ssl.html  double check that its what you want.
[16:22] <hackeron> rbasak: an update, after some trial an error, it seems only this is required to make these servers boot: GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT="nomodeset"
[16:24] <hackeron> rbasak: so it seems like a kernel bug in that case?
[16:25] <hackeron> in fact this works too: GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT="nomodeset quite splash"
[16:25] <teward> jrwren: awesome, that's exactly what we needed.  Thanks again :)
[16:28] <rbasak> hackeron: could be a kernel bug. Can you try the utopic kernel on vivid to pinpoint that?
[16:31] <hackeron> quiet*
[16:33] <hackeron> rbasak: sure, let me try - I believe I just change GRUB_DEFAULT=1
[16:34] <rbasak> hackeron: yep - GRUB_DEFAULT. Though I'm never sure what 1 will do with older kernels being in a submenu now, so I do it by text: http://askubuntu.com/a/216420/7808
[16:34] <rbasak> I match the exact text strings from the existing /boot/grub/grub.cfg.
[16:34] <rbasak> Then update-grub.
[16:35] <rbasak> '>' is for a submenu
[16:57] <hackeron> rbasak: for some reason it just booted the 15.04 kernel anyway and the sysadmin had to leave - will try to reproduce locally here
[16:58] <jKaideN> hey guys
[16:58] <jKaideN> anyone have experience with ILO2 (HP Integrated Lights-Out 2) ?
[16:58] <rbasak> hackeron: OK. I'm heading out now but will stay online and will check back later. If it does turn out to be a kernel issue, please file a bug - "kernel modesetting hangs headless machines until monitor is plugged in" or something. They'll probably want hardware details.
[16:59] <jKaideN> I'm trying to install my own ISO (OS) rather than using a cpanel with pre-set ISO's I'm not sure how exactly I can remotely install my own custom ISO
[17:00] <rbasak> hackeron: if you wanto dig further (we'd love it if you did) then https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/MainlineBuilds and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/KernelBisection will hopefully help pin it down to a single commit.
[17:02] <jKaideN> in the ILO2 web management I have this thing called "Virtual Media Applet" But i just get java error
[17:04] <hackeron> rbasak: thank you, I'm just buiding a new NUC here to try to reproduce the problem first :)
[17:47] <pmatulis> jKaideN: using windows/IE on the client side? if so, that should work
[17:47] <jKaideN> yeah i am not working though
[17:48] <jKaideN> Could not initialize class com.sun.deploy.net.protocol.https.Handler$Intializer
[17:50] <jKaideN> Ah disabled TLS 1.1 + 1.2 on Java
[17:50] <jKaideN> it's working now
[17:53] <jKaideN> Ubuntu Server 15.04  or  Ubuntu Server 14.04.2 LTS  ??
[17:55] <hackeron> rbasak: argh! - I have the same NUC here but a different revision and cannot reproduce the problem here, but 15 of 60 servers have this problem now and they are in client locations so can't really ask them to keep rebooting while I experiment :( - going to try the workaroud and see if the problem goes away for them all
[18:07] <rbasak> hackeron: a higher or lower revision? I wonder if it was a BIOS bug that got fixed?
[18:07] <hackeron> rbasak: same bios version, different hardware revision
[18:08] <rbasak> OK, I guess not then.
[18:19] <hzut> Hi - Please, let me know a good successor for emule?
[18:21] <jKaideN> Hey guys anyone here I got a quick question regarding "Virtual Media"
[18:21] <jKaideN> now, i'm installing Ubuntu Server on my remote dedicated server
[18:21] <jKaideN> I've got access to KVM switch which has things like remote console to server and this thing called "Virtual Media"
[18:22] <jKaideN> i've located the virtual media to the ISO i downloaded (ubuntu server) on my client local machine
[18:22] <jKaideN> Does this upload the iso ? because the iso is around 600 MB and my upload speed is really slow
[18:23] <jKaideN> was wondering how is the server reading the file from my local PC without me having to upload it ??
[18:36] <hackeron> rbasak: the plot thickens - I managed to reproduce the problem, but only when doing do-release-upgrade from 14.04 -> 14.10 -> 15.04 -- if skipping 14.04, there are no boot problems - how bizare :/
[18:44] <jrwren> hackeron: this is the grub thing, right? can you diff -r /boot between a system exhibiting the problem and another not?
[18:59] <hackeron> jrwren: will do, just helping a client get a system back up and running - thankfully the workaround fixes the immediate issue
[19:09] <pmatulis> jKaideN: yes, will be slow
[19:10] <jKaideN> pmatulis, yep i'm setting up right now, um i've got 2 network interfances i've just setup eth0 as primary
[19:10] <jKaideN> how would i know if thats the correct one ?
[19:10] <jKaideN> and im stuck at "partitioning disks"
[19:11] <pmatulis> stuck how?
[19:11] <jKaideN> Guided - Use entire disk ?
[19:11] <jKaideN> so many options
[19:11] <jKaideN> or should i be doing manual for this
[19:11] <jKaideN> server has 1 500GB  HDD
[19:11] <pmatulis> jKaideN: depends what you want in the end
[19:12] <pmatulis> jKaideN: do you need any special partitioning?
[19:12] <jKaideN> nope
[19:12] <jKaideN> I don't
[19:12] <pmatulis> jKaideN: choose 'guided + LVM'
[19:12] <jKaideN> Guided - use entire disk and set up LVM ?
[19:13] <pmatulis> yep
[19:13] <pmatulis> then accpet the next few questions
[19:13] <pmatulis> (yes)
[19:14] <jKaideN> it's asking for volume group to use for guided partitioning:
[19:14] <jKaideN> it automatically says "499.8 GB" leave it as it is/
[19:14] <pmatulis> yes
[19:15] <jKaideN> http://i.imgur.com/heR2NoS.png
[19:15] <jKaideN> is that all good ?
[19:16] <pmatulis> yes
[19:26] <jKaideN> upload speed : 47.37 KB/s :(
[19:26] <jKaideN> #Australia
[19:26] <sarnold> ow :/
[19:28] <pmatulis> go australia, those packets are taking the scenic route around corrals and whateva
[19:31] <hzut> Hi - Please, let me know a good successor for emule?
[19:32] <jKaideN> lol and my download is 100 MB/s rofl
[19:40] <jKaideN> for the nameserver i just set it to <IP_ADDRESS>
[19:40] <jKaideN> thats fine ?
[19:41] <pmatulis> that's local-specific
[19:41] <jKaideN> ?
[20:04] <Walex2> hzut: 'amule'
[20:51] <jKaideN> how should i manage upgrades on the system? which is preferred?
[20:51] <jKaideN> no auto updates | install security updates auto | manage system with landscape
[20:57] <bekks> jKaideN: The way that fits your requirements.
[20:57] <CrustY__> Hi everyone
[20:57] <CrustY__> I've faced this issue https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/policykit-1/+bug/1447654
[20:58] <CrustY__> and tried to install polkit like in workaround described in comment
[20:58] <jKaideN> I just went with no auto updates i'll porbably want to manage them myself
[20:58] <CrustY__> but apt-get install polkit-1 hangs on installing udev
[20:58] <CrustY__> how can I fix that?
[21:01] <jKaideN> when you first install ubuntu server is it essential to do 'apt-get full-upgrade' ?
[21:01] <bekks> jKaideN: apt-get dist-upgrade
[21:01] <CrustY__> I use it on cloud
[21:02] <CrustY__> to be clearer: it's droplet in digitalocean
[21:02] <bekks> jKaideN: full-upgrade isnt even mentioned in the man page.
[21:02] <jKaideN> bekks, oh i see, is the dist-upgrade any different from normal upgrade
[21:03] <jKaideN> bekks, in other words why should i be doing dist-upgrade opposed to normal upgrade
[21:03] <bekks> jKaideN: This article explains it: http://askubuntu.com/questions/81585/what-is-dist-upgrade-and-why-does-it-upgrade-more-than-upgrade
[21:10] <CrustY__> any help?:(
[21:17] <jKaideN> do i install GRUB boot loader?
[21:57] <sarnold> CrustY__: perhaps add a comment to the bug with the information pitti asked for; he'll probably be online in seven or eight hours and might be able to work on it then
[22:15] <pmatulis> jKaideN: 'apt full-upgrade' will work
[22:16] <pmatulis> jKaideN: yes, install GRUB
[22:16] <jKaideN> yep done
[22:16] <sarnold> heh, I've never seen full-upgrade before.
[22:16] <bekks> pmatulis: How comes it isnt documented in the man page?
[22:16] <jKaideN> installing iptables-persistent now
[22:16] <pmatulis> apt not apt-get
[22:17] <bekks> ah, oh, ok. TIL. :)
[22:17] <pmatulis> hopefully to have completion soon
[22:17] <bekks> :)
[22:18] <jKaideN> btw im using ufw will that conflict with iptables ?
[22:18] <jKaideN> like when i allow something on ufw but accidentally deny in iptables which takes highest priority ?
[22:18] <sarnold> jKaideN: ufw writes iptables rules for you
[22:18] <bekks> ufw uses iptables, but you're better of using either ufw for administering iptables, or dont use ufw.
[22:18] <sarnold> jKaideN: I'd recommend picking one; hand-writing rules or using ufw, and stick with it...
[22:19] <jKaideN> ok since i'm not going to be using much rules everything will be kept simple i'll just go with ufw
[22:27] <jKaideN> I have
[22:27] <jKaideN> -P INPUT DROP
[22:27] <jKaideN>  -P FORWARD DROP
[22:27] <jKaideN>  is that normal
[22:34] <jKaideN> is there a way to update python and making sure that two different versions are non-existing?
[22:34] <sarnold> jKaideN: what are you trying to do?
[22:34] <sarnold> jKaideN: hint: it's best to pretend python3 and python2 are completely different languages
[22:35] <jKaideN> update current python from 2.7.6 to 2.7.9
[22:35] <jKaideN> yes
[22:35] <sarnold> jKaideN: the easiest way to do that is to upgrade to vivid.
[22:36] <sarnold> jKaideN: alternatively you could compile your own python fro msource for whatever requires 2.7.9.
[22:38] <jKaideN> things that use python doesn't require 2.7.9 but I'd like to update python for security reasons as well, rather not keep them outdated
[22:40] <jKaideN> example: fail2ban requires python >= v2.6 (or >= 3.2)
[22:40] <sarnold> 2,7,6 fits that..
[22:40] <sarnold> there's not much outstanding for python2.7: http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/python2.7.html
[22:41] <sarnold> we've rated all those low priority issues
[22:42] <jKaideN> i should be fine with 2.7.6 ?
[22:50] <jKaideN> i'm using ufw does this save the table after reboot
[22:50] <jKaideN> or am i required to install iptables-persistent as well
[22:53] <jKaideN> also in motd i receive "7 updates are security updates.
[22:53] <jKaideN> " How do i apply these updates ? through apt-get upgrade ?
[23:06] <bekks> jKaideN: Just use apt-get dist-upgrade, instead of aptget upgrade, always.
[23:07] <jKaideN> also on syslog i got something like this:
[23:08] <jKaideN>  [UFW BLOCK] IN=eth0 OUT= MAC=00:19:.... SRC=128.8.x.x DST=<my server ip>  LEN=60 TOS=0x00 PREC=0x00 TTL=47 ID=12690 DF PROTO=TCP SPT=50848 DPT=8333 WINDOW=14600 RES=0x00 SYN URGP=0
[23:09] <jKaideN> there's a couple of htem
[23:12] <jKaideN> lol wtf that ip is dreyfus.umiacs.umd.edu