[00:41] <stochastic> does anyone have time to do a REVU: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/swh-lv2
[00:56] <kamalmostafa> The 'debchange' script (dch) in Karmic's devscripts package does not think "lucid" is a valid distribution, so it whines at me accordingly.  Is there any reason why Karmic's debchange couldn't include "lucid"?   Should I force Lucid's whole devscripts package onto my Karmic development system?
[00:58] <persia> kamalmostafa: Ignore the error or work in a chroot :)
[00:59] <persia> kamalmostafa: Extra points for submitting the patch to make sure that doesn't happen for lucid as soon as the name for lucid+1 is announced.
[00:59] <JontheEchidna> shouldn't enabling karmic-backports fix the issue? I believe that's what has happened in all previous releases
[00:59]  * JontheEchidna comments and runs, off to watch Lost
[01:00] <persia> Well, that usually fixes it, but fixing it pre-release is better :)
[01:00] <kamalmostafa> JontheEchidna: wait... Lost!?  Oh, not my timezone yet (whew!)
[01:00]  * micahg has backports enabled and doesn't see the fix
[01:02] <kamalmostafa> persia: its certainly easy enough to work around -- I guess I was really wondering if everyone else bumps into this annoyance or if there's a more "proper" way to set up my environment.
[01:03] <JontheEchidna> kamalmostafa: just the recap show, the premiere is in an hour
[01:04] <kamalmostafa> JontheEchidna: Okay, as long as I've got at least 108 minutes.
[01:04] <JontheEchidna> ;-)
[01:20] <kklimonda> what are the options of creating daily builds for ppa?
[01:20] <kklimonda> bzr builder is one
[01:25] <micahg> kklimonda: https://edge.launchpad.net/drobotik
[01:30] <kklimonda> micahg: right - the evil script I couldn't get to work in the past ;)
[01:30] <kklimonda> but I guess it's time to try it again
[01:43] <kklimonda> are backports enabled for ppa builds?
[01:44] <RAOF> kklimonda: They are if you enable in the “PPA Details” section of your ppa.
[01:44] <kklimonda> right, I've just thought of that
[02:11] <kklimonda> fta: what is the workflow with your scripts for daily builds? I have no idea how it works..
[02:53] <solarkennedy> I need some help, I'm building my own version of a package (bind9) using the standard apt-get source bind9; etc
[02:53] <solarkennedy> But the package from security is trying to upgrade over my version
[02:54] <solarkennedy> even though (I think) apt-get source got the patched version
[02:54] <solarkennedy> What can I do to make my version take priority over the one from security?
[05:21] <jacob> ffffffuuuuuuu-
[05:21] <jacob> sorry, wrong channel. carry on.
[07:19] <suji11> Hi, anyone advocate/review my package http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/iok
[07:42] <angelabad> Hi, can anyone review pidgin-embeddedvideo? Embedded video is a GTK+ plugin for pidgin. http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/pidgin-embeddedvideo
[10:39] <randomaction> suji11: I found a number of lintian errors/warnings in iok, see REVU page
[10:51] <Laney> randomaction: are you somehow interested in Agda?! :)
[10:52] <randomaction> not really, I'm working on uninstallable packages
[10:52] <Laney> blast
[10:52] <Laney> do you have an easy to read list?
[10:52] <Laney> i'll look at the haskell stuff
[10:52] <randomaction> http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/debcheck/debcheck.py?dist=lucid&list=universe-only-relationship-Depends&arch=i386
[10:53] <Laney> oh that's not bad at all
[10:54] <randomaction> there are many haskell packages that FTBFS because dh_haskell doesn't exist anymore
[10:55] <Laney> sure
[10:55] <Laney> there will be a haskell transition before long
[10:55] <randomaction> from what I researched, it was a simple wrapper around dh_haskell_*, so it's going to be easy to fix
[10:56] <randomaction> if it's not done in Debian
[10:56] <Laney> it is
[10:56] <|xaka|> anybody can tell me know to build cross-dependens packages? A -> B, B -> C, C -> A?
[10:56] <Laney> |xaka|: don't
[10:56] <|xaka|> but how ubuntu guys did it?
[11:02] <randomaction> Laney: I hope I didn't break much by syncing agda
[11:05] <Laney> randomaction: no, not at all. I was looking at doing it
[11:05] <Laney> I just uploaded the Agda standard library to Debian and am laying the groundwork for that
[11:08]  * Laney . o O ( Dear Santa, please bring Soyuz binNMU support for Christmas, he's been a really very good boy )
[11:09] <randomaction> ah, so we do -build1 uploads just because it doesn't support binNMUs?
[11:11] <Laney> well binNMUs a la Debian aren't really what I mean, but yeah
[11:11] <jetienne> debchange warning: new version (0.05) is less than the current version number (0.05). <- from a debchange :)
[11:11] <Laney> I want to avoid having to do a manual sourceful upload
[11:14] <Laney> although tbh, most of this Haskell transition could be done with syncs as packages are getting new uploads to Debian
[11:14] <Laney> . o O ( Dear Soyuz, please let me schedule actions with a wanna-build like syntax )
[11:32] <jetienne> q. in a dh_make, it propose a init.d.ex and a init.d.lsb.ex, which one is the prefered one .?
[11:36] <jetienne> ok init.d.ex it will be ;)
[12:22] <mok0> Anyone know of a way to determine geolocation by IP?
[12:28] <Rhonda> I forgot what option I could use for the translations.launchpad.net page to have more than 10 items per page?
[12:29] <randomaction> mok0: whois?
[12:30] <mok0> randomaction: doesn't that just give you who registered the ip numbeR?
[12:30] <randomaction> Rhonda: batch
[12:31] <randomaction> mok0: that's right; do you need finer results?
[12:31] <Rhonda> randomaction: Thanks!
[12:34] <mok0> randomaction: yes
[12:35] <mok0> randomaction: For example http://www.melissadata.com/Lookups/iplocation.asp lets you look up where you are
[12:36] <mok0> ... well any IP
[12:36] <mok0> I was just wondering if that could be done by any of the standard tools we have in Linux
[12:37] <mok0> randomaction: It's different from whois, that only finds the organization that has registered the ip address
[12:37] <randomaction> mok0: well, for my IP it gives results correct to 700 km, while whois lets you track me down within 2 km :)
[12:40] <mok0> randomaction: heh
[12:41] <mok0> randomaction: perhaps you have registered your own IP?
[12:41] <randomaction> nope, it's an ISP local to this part of the city
[12:42] <mok0> randomaction: well, I can't say how that geolocator works, that's what I'm trying to find out :-)
[12:43] <mok0> randomaction: I presume the ISP has to submit information somewhere
[12:43] <randomaction> http://www.outflux.net/blog/archives/2010/01/24/google-is-wardriving/
[12:44] <randomaction> ^^ was on Planet Ubuntu recenlty
[12:45] <mok0> randomaction: interesting. Well the data is out there somewhere
[12:45] <mok0> randomaction: you'd think there is some service like whois or dns that could be queried
[12:46] <randomaction> I'd think that's all there is
[12:48] <mok0> randomaction: hm, kees has a script on his site that might be *exactly* what I'm looking for
[12:50] <mok0> randomaction: woot, it works
[12:51] <randomaction> is this a Google service?
[12:52] <mok0> randomaction: yes
[12:52] <mok0> randomaction: actually, it works by MAC address not IP
[12:52] <mok0> randomaction: I have to figure out how to change the script
[12:53] <jetienne> http://www.outflux.net/blog/archives/2010/01/24/google-is-wardriving/ <- tell this guys about geoip-like services
[13:00] <paissad> hi all, is this channel for helping about creating .deb packages for a possible later upload in ubuntu repositories ?
[13:06] <dooooomi> mok0: i made the changes to the klick package as you suggested. i've also uploaded the frontend gtklick (http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/gtklick)
[13:07] <mok0> dooooomi: OK, I'll take a look
[13:08] <dooooomi> mok0: thanks!
[13:09] <iulian> paissad: Yes.
[13:09] <randomaction> paissad: yes, among other things
[13:10] <paissad> iulian, randomaction ok thanks
[13:24] <mok0> dooooomi: I submitted my review. Ping me later I have to be afk for a while
[13:25] <mok0> dooooomi: will take a look at gtkklikc later
[14:13] <alkisg> Urm... I issued this command: `bzr mv menus/ src`
[14:13] <alkisg> ...hoping to move the menus directory into the src directory. It did, but all the files in the menus directory were gone. Could someone explain me if that's normal?
[14:46] <_stink_> new-ish to packaging, and here's something i don't get: i hear that a benefit of pbuilder is that you don't have to install all those -dev packages on your machine.  but if i have to debuild first to get the .dsc file to send to pbuilder, and debuild needs all those -dev packages, how am i avoiding installing them on my machine?  am i misunderstanding something?
[14:46] <Laney> you run debuild -S
[14:47] <_stink_> ah! hah, thanks
[14:47] <_stink_> duh me
[14:47] <_stink_> :)
[14:48] <geser> _stink_: but you still might need some build-depends installed, like debhelper
[14:48] <Laney> yes, those needed for the clean: target
[14:50] <feuloren> hi, I have a long question about packages names and dependencies :
[14:50] <feuloren>  current version of babl is lucid is 0.0.22 and package's name is libbabl-0.0-0; many packages have dependencies against it,   but the new upstream release is 0.1.2 so package's name should be changed to libbabl-0.1-0; if one change the name of this package, is there a need to repackage all the packages that depends on it ?
[14:51] <_stink_> Laney: geser: thanks!
[14:51] <geser> feuloren: probably only to rebuild (if the API didn't change)
[14:52] <Rhonda> feuloren: Why do you think that package's name should be changed to libbabl-0.1-0? The upstream release version has nothing to do with it, that's API/ABI versions in the package name, not upstream versions.
[14:52] <geser> feuloren: how does upstream call the library (the .so file) itself?
[14:52] <Rhonda> feuloren: As long as the upstream release 0.1.2 hasn't changed the backwards compatibility it should be fine.
[14:57] <feuloren> geser, Rhonda : ok, i thought package's name should match the upstream version of the package
[14:58] <Rhonda> Not really, no. :)
[14:58] <Rhonda> package versions should match upstream versions. :)
[14:58] <geser> library package names match the upstream library naming and so-version
[15:22] <hakaishi> Hi everyone! Anyone up to advocate for qt-shutdown-p? (I just need one more advocate) http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/qt-shutdown-p
[16:06] <bddebian> Heya gang
[16:08] <zooko> kirkland: I enjoyed reading your interview. I hadn't noticed that the interviewer talked about Tahoe-LAFS last time I spoke to you.
[16:18] <sebner> huhu bddebian :)
[16:18] <bddebian> Heya sebner
[16:25] <hyperair> persia: how does one apply for MOTUship these days?
[16:27] <Rhonda> hyperair:   * common/usr/bin/sw-repair-set.sh:
[16:27] <Rhonda>      - loose repair case for exim4.
[16:27] <Rhonda>      - add Enta and Sysa in another case.
[16:27] <Rhonda> eeks, wrong paste. :)
[16:27] <Rhonda> hyperair: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU should have the relevant informations. :)
[16:27] <hyperair> Rhonda: thanks.
[16:27] <hyperair> Rhonda: is it up to date?
[16:28] <hyperair> Rhonda: afaik it used to be through the MC, but i have no idea about the state of the MC currently
[16:28] <Rhonda> I would hope so. If you find something outdated feel free to fix it. :)
[16:28] <hyperair> Rhonda: it's outdated.
[16:28] <hyperair> Rhonda: but i have no idea what's the up to date information, which is why i'm asking.
[16:29] <randomaction> hyperair: apply to DMB
[16:29] <hyperair> randomaction: how?
[16:29] <hyperair> randomaction: what are the procedures?
[16:29] <randomaction> let me find a link; they voted on the procedure just yesterday
[16:30] <Rhonda> hyperair: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperMembershipBoard is outdated then, too?
[16:30] <randomaction> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperMembershipBoard/ApplicationProcess
[16:30]  * Laney hopes this build isn't stuck
[16:30] <Rhonda> Ah, doesn't seem to be. :)
[16:30] <Laney> that doesn't mention MOTU
[16:30] <randomaction> hmm, it doesn't mention MOTU
[16:31] <kreuter> howdy, #ubuntu-motu.  where do I put upstart init files in a debian/ directory so that dh_installinit will find them?  (or, alternatively, how do I tell dh_installinit what files to use?)
[16:31] <Laney> and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopers says that MOTU is still a delegated team
[16:31] <Laney> persia (or other MC member): can you shed any light on how to apply for MOTU currently?
[16:31]  * hyperair sighs. whatever happened to succession plans prior to dissolving?
[16:32] <Laney> jpds, nhandler: ^^^ ?
[16:32] <Laney> kreuter: look at the manpage
[16:32] <Laney> it's really very clear
[16:33] <kreuter> oh.  oops.  I was looking at the manpage on the wrong host.  sorry for the noise.
[16:34] <sebner> hyperair for MOTU \o/
[16:36] <hyperair> sebner: thanks =)
[16:42] <geser> Laney: the wiki page with the ApplicationProcess should also apply to MOTU for now (it's based on the MC process)
[16:43] <Laney> geser: The UbuntuDevelopers page still lists MOTU as a delegated team. Is that no longer true?
[16:44] <Laney> (because it then says "# Review the requirements for the specific team of interest, and apply to that team for membership")
[16:45] <geser> MOTU still exists, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Specs/LucidMOTU got approved on the last DMB meeting (without the MC part), the future of the MC is to be discussed/decided within MOTU
[16:45] <Laney> delegated for the purpose of developer applications, that is
[16:46] <Laney> and wiki/MOTU still talks abot the MC
[16:46] <geser> it's not yet decided what powers the MC will have (at least it's not very clear to me)
[16:46] <Laney> so I don't see how MOTUs are supposed to apply currently
[16:46] <geser> I guess nobody will remove the parts about MC without knowing if MC comes back or not
[16:47] <geser> s/will/want/
[16:47] <Laney> I'll just mail the list(s)
[16:47] <geser> some parts about MOTU/ MC is still in motion and not finally settled yet
[16:48] <geser> mok0 proposed to expand "MOTU" to "Masters of the Unknown" :)
[16:48] <sebner> geser: I'm wondering if there is finally a schedule about making this decisions as this is going on since months already
[16:49] <sebner> lol
[16:49] <geser> sebner: what kind of decision? MOTU will stay, this got decided (the spec approved)
[16:49] <geser> what happens to MC is to be decided by MOTU
[16:50] <sebner> geser: also after archive-reorg?
[16:50] <geser> yes
[16:50] <sebner> geser: what happened to per package upload rights?
[16:50] <Laney> PPU = DMB
[16:50] <Laney> this is clear
[16:50] <Laney> I just don't see who decides MOTU applications
[16:50] <Laney> in the middle of composing the mail now
[16:51] <randomaction> FWIW, DMB did review one MOTU nomination yesterday
[16:52] <geser> for now the DMB does it (there are two applications carried over from the MC to the DMB)
[16:52] <Laney> (at the very least the wiki needs to clarify this)
[16:52] <ripps> Does anybody know how to stop pbuilder after it's done building so I can inspect the environment?
[16:52] <geser> ripps: setup a hook
[16:52] <ripps> geser: like what?
[16:53] <hyperair> geser: so is the procedure the same? just add yourself to the meeting agenda and mail the list?
[16:53] <Laney> there is an example on the wiki
[16:53] <Laney> but you should name it BXXX instead of CXXX, I think
[16:53] <geser> hyperair: yes
[16:53] <hyperair> geser: okay, thanks =)
[16:53] <randomaction> ripps: manpage describes --hookdir option
[16:54] <hyperair> now i need to continue looking for endorsements..
[16:54] <Laney> or use the FTBFS hook and hax debian/rules to make the build always fail
[16:55] <geser> ripps: /usr/share/doc/pbuilder/examples/C10shell but save it as B10shell (or any other number)
[16:55] <ripps> geser: ah thanks, I had C10shell, I just didn't know how to execute it at the right time.
[16:56] <Laney> C hooks are executed on failures
[16:56] <geser> ripps: man pbuilder; it describes the different kind of hooks (A till G)
[16:56]  * jdong wonders what these flame icons are on launchpad bugs
[16:56] <jdong> is it... a popularity metric?
[16:56] <geser> bug heat
[16:56] <jdong> grrreat :)
[16:56] <geser> but it's bugged
[16:56] <hyperair> i haven't seen any of them heat up though
[16:56] <jdong> now all we need are avatars and thumbs-up/down logos!
[16:56] <hyperair> yeah, it's bugged. =p
[16:56] <jdong> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/gedit/+bug/276094
[16:57] <jdong> obviously more than jus the CPU is getting hot
[16:57] <geser> hyperair: look at nspluginwrapper, https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nspluginwrapper/+bugs
[16:57] <hyperair> geser: wow. we've got a 4-flame one!
[16:57] <hyperair> =O
[16:58] <randomaction> jdong: http://blog.launchpad.net/bug-tracking/bug-heat
[16:59] <jdong> randomaction: ah, good to know :)
[16:59] <geser> hyperair: another one: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/seahorse-plugins/+bug/429322, there the duplicate list is longer then the comments
[17:00] <hyperair> lol
[17:00] <hyperair> that's pretty hilarious =p
[17:01] <Laney> that bug times out
[17:01]  * Laney strokes Launchpad
[17:01] <jpds> How I learnt to stop worrying and LOVE the Launchpad.
[17:03] <Rhonda> Has someone the link handy for where the difference in versioning between Debian and Ubuntu packages are listed?
[17:03] <Rhonda> Like, which packages are in sync, which need sync, which contain patches and so on?
[17:04] <Laney> do you mean multidistrotools?
[17:04] <Rhonda> No clue if I mean that before I've seen it. :)
[17:04] <Laney> Rhonda: If so, http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/multidistrotools/
[17:04]  * Laney was getting the link
[17:05] <Rhonda> I think that might be something, thanks.
[17:05] <Laney> UDD carries all this as well
[17:05] <Laney> if you want to create your own reports
[17:05] <Rhonda> Ah, cool!
[17:05] <Rhonda> Thanks for _that_ information, that will be extremely helpful, hopfully. :)
[17:06] <Laney> I believe part of the vision was to obsolete MDT with UDD :)
[17:06] <Rhonda> thus the U ;)
[17:07] <Rhonda> Ah, that compares squeeze and not sid …
[17:08] <StevenK> Because that's where we are pulling from by default this cycle
[17:08] <Rhonda> Yes, figured that. Unfortunately ejabberd won't be able to transition to squeeze and I was searching for it on that page and didn't find it. ;)
[17:09] <StevenK> We are happy to sync from unstable, but that needs to be requested
[17:09] <StevenK> (And ACKed, if you're no core-dev/motu)
[17:09] <Rhonda> Got already. ;)
[17:10] <Rhonda> But I was just searching for a known pattern in the page that I know of.
[17:10] <Laney> Rhonda: I made a (really bad) script that uses UDD to compare sid and lucid
[17:10] <Laney> alioth: ~laney-guest/udd.pl
[17:11] <Laney> it just does it for reverse build deps of ghc6, but you get the idea
[17:11] <Rhonda> Laney: I am thinking of doing something like this, at least for the pkg-games team maintained packages: http://backports.deb.at/lenny-backports/ :)
[17:11] <Laney> yes, that would be very easy
[17:11] <Rhonda> Wait. .pl?
[17:11] <Rhonda> How did you manage to get CGI working on alioth?
[17:11] <Laney> it's not CGI
[17:12] <StevenK> It's a script to snarf, chmod +x, and run
[17:12] <Laney> correct
[17:12] <Rhonda> And it gives me 404
[17:12] <Rhonda> Oh
[17:12] <Laney> I mean in my home directory, sorry
[17:12] <Rhonda> Right. :)
[17:12] <Rhonda> I thought you meant http://alioth/~laney-guest/ :)
[17:13] <Laney> yeah, ambiguous statements
[17:13] <Rhonda> Like I have my http://alioth.debian.org/~rhonda-guest/stable-RC.php page. :)
[17:13] <sebner> Laney: I'm wondering about perl being so popular for such things
[17:14] <Rhonda> sebner: Because it's less prone to errors than php?
[17:14] <sebner> Rhonda: what about python, ruby, bash?
[17:14] <StevenK> I daresay bash is unsuitable
[17:14] <sebner> yeah right ^^
[17:15] <StevenK> And what about them, it was written by Laney by the language that was most suitable for them to use ...
[17:15] <Rhonda> sebner: perl offers through the AptPkg module some sweet comparison functions.
[17:15] <StevenK> Except that AptPkg is a pile of segfaulting crap. Sometimes.
[17:15] <sebner> StevenK: sure, I don't have a problem with that. I just noticed that a lot stuff in this area is written in perl
[17:16] <Rhonda> sebner: And I don't speak python or ruby, neither know wether they would offer similar functionality. And bash … well. bash. It's tough to do proper processing in bash, at least IMHO.
[17:16] <Laney> sebner: because I considered it to be the best for a quick hacky script to get the list I needed
[17:16] <Rhonda> StevenK: Never had a single one, to be honest.
[17:16] <Laney> Rhonda: and UDD offers some SQL functions to do version comparisons
[17:16] <Laney> debversion_*
[17:16] <StevenK> Rhonda: Use it on an arch that isn't i386 or amd64
[17:16] <Laney> I use it in the script :)
[17:16] <Rhonda> Laney: Oh, right. Thanks for the rminder!
[17:16] <Rhonda> StevenK: Like, powerpc? Am there. :)
[17:17] <StevenK> Rhonda: Hmph. I've had it segfault on alpha and sparc
[17:18] <Laney> I should have modelled SQL in Type Theory and written an Agda program to do it
[17:18] <Rhonda> Heading home - thanks for the nice ideas and hints!
[17:26] <kreuter> hello again, #ubuntu-motu.  I'm trying to get a package's upstart file installed.  I'm able to construct a .deb whose data.tar.gz contains the upstart file, but the file doesn't get into /etc/init when I install the .deb with "dpkg -i".  what am I doing wrong?
[17:29] <kreuter> hm.  "dpkg -L" reports that the package contains the upstart file, too.
[17:32] <abogani> Laney: upstream authors refused to fix it.
[17:33] <Laney> find out what license the binaries are under
[17:33] <Laney> if they have permission to redistribute in that form
[17:38] <soren> kreuter: If it has existed before and you deleted it back then, installing the package again will not regenerate it.
[17:38] <soren> kreuter: This is by design.
[17:38] <soren> kreuter: dpkg will respect the admin's deletion of conffiles and not regenerate them on upgrades.
[17:39] <kreuter> oh, of course.
[17:39] <kreuter> it's been a while since I've used debianoids.
[17:40] <geser> kreuter: there is an option to force dpkg to reinstall the file
[17:40] <kreuter> right.
[17:41] <abogani> Laney: I promise the last question: Where I can found instructions for create a .dfsg package (that is a oackage that recreate .orig and remove not DFSG compatible files) ?
[17:41] <soren> --force-confnew
[17:41] <soren> kreuter: dpkg -i --force-confnew file.deb
[17:41] <soren> kreuter: ...ought to do it.
[17:42] <geser> --force-confmiss should be better
[17:42] <kreuter> thanks
[17:42] <soren> geser: Right you are.
[17:47] <geser> soren: btw have you some time to sponsor bug #511356?
[17:53]  * randomaction hopes to have bug 515092 sponsored some time
[17:54] <abogani> Anyone know where I can found instructions for create a .dfsg package (that is a package that recreate .orig and remove not DFSG compatible files - sorry I don't know if this a specific name) ?
[17:56] <randomaction> abogani: try http://www.debian.org/doc/developers-reference/best-pkging-practices.html#bpp-origtargz
[17:57] <soren> geser: Sure, I'll take a look.
[17:57] <abogani> randomaction: Yeah! Exactly what I'm looking for! Thanks a lot!
[17:59] <soren> geser: Oh, dear, it's one of those format 3.0 things.
[18:00] <geser> soren: is that a problem?
[18:00] <soren> geser: Only that I've never dealt with them before.
[18:01]  * soren just does what he always did
[18:02] <soren> geser: Looks good. /me uploads
[18:03] <geser> soren: thanks
[18:03] <soren> Err...
[18:03] <soren> Whoops :)
[18:03] <soren> There we go.
[18:10] <MaximLevitsky> I have seen that ubuntu provides packages of latest kernels
[18:11] <MaximLevitsky> It seems that they are at http://kernel.ubuntu.com/~kernel-ppa/mainline/
[18:11] <MaximLevitsky> But I need the source of these packages
[18:11] <MaximLevitsky> Where I can download it
[18:11] <MaximLevitsky> Basicly I need ubuntu kernel package of 2.6.33-rc6
[18:12] <MaximLevitsky> As a kernel developer I never use kernel package
[18:12] <MaximLevitsky> But I published my driver, and was asked to provide an ppa to users
[18:12] <MaximLevitsky> I want to patch the 'ubuntu' kernel variant
[18:13] <MaximLevitsky> but 10.4 seems to have only 2.6.32, right?
[18:13] <geser> try asking in #ubuntu-kernel where the kernel guys are
[18:15] <MaximLevitsky> geser: will try, thanks
[18:42] <fta> kklimonda, which part of the README do you need me to clarify?
[18:44] <kklimonda> fta: the workflow is to prepare two conf files, a debian/rules file with get-orig-source that fetches source from repository and then what? just running daily.sh [pocket]?
[18:44] <fta> kklimonda, correct
[18:45] <kklimonda> fta: then everything is clear - i've spent some time after sending you a message on that
[18:45] <fta> could be manual, or in a crontab (then i advise -e to get a proper email rather than the default stdout in an ugly email from cron)
[18:48] <fta> kklimonda, use lp:drobotik for the code, and lp:~fta/+junk/ppa-confs / https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~fta/+junk/ppa-confs for some real life examples
[19:46] <alex_mayorga> Hello! Are sun JRE,JDK 1.6.0_18 in the horizon?
[19:47] <geser> would that be the sun-java6 package? if yes, then it's gone for lucid
[19:48] <alex_mayorga> geser, what would replace it?
[19:48] <persia> openJDK6
[19:48] <alex_mayorga> I'm on lucid and I still have it BTW
[19:49] <alex_mayorga> and there's https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/lucid/+source/sun-java6
[19:49] <geser> alex_mayorga: if you have it installed, then apt (or other tools) don't force a removal from your system when it gets removed from the archive, but you can install it (or update) it anymore
[19:50] <geser> doesn't the app you need sun-java6 for run with openjdk?
[20:14] <alex_mayorga> geser, bug 477812
[20:18] <geser> alex_mayorga: the same applies for a (possible) update to _18. Someone from the community has to prepare updated packages.
[20:20] <alex_mayorga> geser,  I might as well package it over the weekend if somebody holds my hand ;-)
[20:20] <alex_mayorga> is this the right place?
[20:20] <geser> yes, we can try to help you
[20:21] <alex_mayorga> OK, thanks!
[20:23] <randomaction> alex_mayorga: since this is a security update, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdatePreparation is probably something you need to bookmark :)
[20:46] <kamalmostafa> I have always just ignored "W: out-of-date-standards-version 3.8.1 (current is 3.8.3)" while making bug fixes.  Now I'm packaging a new version of an upstream source tarball (by stuffing in the debian/ dir snarfed from the old Ubuntu version), and I get that warning as usual.   What's the process to resolve it?
[20:47] <sebner> kamalmostafa: check what changes need to be done and bump it
[20:47] <sebner> kamalmostafa: debian/control
[20:47] <persia> Um, maybe?
[20:47] <persia> Only bump Standards-Version for packages that are not maintained in Debian.  If Ubuntu has a different version, it's still not worth it.
[20:49] <sebner> right
[20:49] <kamalmostafa> sebner: I've merged the few documented code changes from ubuntu's and debian's previous versions -- but I don't know what the "standards-version" even implies really.
[20:50] <sebner> kamalmostafa: it's debian packaging policy, but if the package is in Debian, really try to update/get it updated there
[20:50] <geser> it's sort of a hint when the package was last checked to comply with current Debian policy
[20:51] <randomaction> Debian policy evolves over time
[20:52] <kamalmostafa> persia: This package (hamlib) is maintained in Debian.  Possibly relevant here is that the package has been orphaned.   My intent here is to package it for Debian actually.   So maybe there is value in "updating it to more recent standards compliance" -- but I don't know what that entails.
[20:52] <Laney> read upgrading-checklist.txt.gz and do what you have to
[20:53] <kamalmostafa> Laney: where's that file?
[20:53] <persia> kamalmostafa: If you want to fix that stuff and update the standards version, organise a QA upload in Debian.  Otherwise, minimise the divergence.
[20:53] <Laney> in the debian-policy package
[20:53]  * randomaction just bumps it and reads lintian output after that
[20:53] <sebner> heh
[20:54]  * sebner reads the changelog of debian-policy package on p.d.o
[20:54] <randomaction> persia: do Debian make QA uploads of new versions?
[20:54] <kamalmostafa> well... is randomaction's method really viable?  Sounds like the path of least resistance.
[20:55] <persia> randomaction: Not usually, because usually if anyone cares enough, that person adopts the package, but it can happen (usually only if required for some interesting transition when the package change is interesting, but the package remains uninteresting)
[20:56] <kamalmostafa> persia: I'd be interested in at least *looking* at the divergence... if its a one line change to bring it up to standards, then worth doing, but if its a huge ugly thing then minimizing the divergence sounds more attractive.
[20:56] <randomaction> persia: ok, that's how I imagined it - they must prefer to get a real maintainer
[20:57] <kamalmostafa> actually, it looks like the future "real maintainer" might end up being me.
[20:57] <persia> randomaction: It's always preferable to have a maintainer :)
[20:57] <persia> kamalmostafa: If you're interested, go for it :)
[20:58] <kamalmostafa> well, okay then my question really boils down to:  Am I *required* to update the standards version from 3.8.1 to 3.8.3, or is it my option here?
[20:58] <kamalmostafa> or maybe... Will debian require it?
[21:00] <persia> Debian will strongly encourage it.  Ubuntu will strongly discourage it, except for packages only in Ubuntu.
[21:01] <kamalmostafa> persia: *sigh* :-)
[21:01] <Laney> that's a clear answer
[21:01] <Laney> "It depends on what you are doing"
[21:02] <Laney> (it's really not that hard to do anyway)
[21:02] <kamalmostafa> Okay, thanks everyone.  I will go examine the policy, and will try randomaction
[21:02] <kamalmostafa> 's "just try it trick".
[21:02] <kamalmostafa> Laney: Yes, I'm certainly not against trying it -- just wasn't sure even how to begin.  Thanks again for the pointers folks.
[21:04] <randomaction> kamalmostafa: actually, the policy changes between 3.8.* version are not large
[21:05] <jcfp> Laney: tx for sponsoring sab
[21:05] <kamalmostafa> randomaction: that's what I imagined anyway -- just 0.0.2 difference can't be much, right? ;-)
[21:08] <Laney> jcfp: you are welcome
[21:15] <kamalmostafa> Re: hamlib debian standards version... That was easy!  I examined the checklist and found nothing applicable to hamlib between 3.8.1 and 3.8.3, so bumped it to 3.8.3 and lintian is happily silent.  Thanks again Laney, randomaction, persia, sebner, and geser.
[21:16] <sebner> kamalmostafa: another hint. If you want to get it into Debian you already want to bump it to 3.8.4
[21:17] <kamalmostafa> sebner: oh *now* you tell me!  ;-)   The checklist only lists up to 3.8.3.  Where do I find the 3.8.4 doc?
[21:18] <Laney> yes, you should install debian-policy from *debian*
[21:18] <sebner> kamalmostafa: that's why I said Debian. 3.8.4 is still in Debian Unstable and not yet synced to Ubuntu
[21:18] <sebner> kamalmostafa: lintian might complain that 3.8.4 is too new (wanting 3.8.3) but you can safely ignore that
[21:19] <kamalmostafa> Laney, sebner: Ah, got it.  Okay, I'll go fetch it from there.
[21:22] <kamalmostafa> Laney, sebner: hmmm... but if my lintian isn't itself 3.8.4 compliant, it won't be able to actually warn about any 3.8.4 violations, right?
[21:23] <Laney> right
[21:23] <kamalmostafa> I would think it invalid to declare the package 3.8.4 compliant based on my lintian 3.8.3 results (even if I've visually examine the 3.8.4 rules)
[21:27] <rhpot1991> if I open up a sponsorship request bug, should my bzr branch be ready to close it?
[21:30] <ScottK> kamalmostafa: Lintian doesn't define 3.8.4 compliance.  Following the rules in 3.8.4 does.
[21:32] <kamalmostafa> ScottK: Understood.  And now that I actually *look* at 3.8.4, the checklist changes from 3.8.3 are trivial and non-applicable to my package anyway.
[21:35] <rhpot1991> if someone wants to take a look: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libhdhomerun/+bug/516762
[21:35] <rhpot1991> persia: since you have helped me in the past with this maybe you want to have a look ^
[21:48] <sebner> kamalmostafa: that applies to 95% of the packages anyways
[21:54] <persia> Any pbuilder users about?
[21:54] <persia> Err, rather pbuilder-dist users, to be specific
[21:54] <RAOF> Yes?
[21:54] <persia> Cool.
[21:54]  * RAOF needs to blog his pbuilder-on-tmpfs benchmarks still.
[21:54] <persia> So, using pbuilder-dist, how to I create an i386 builder on an amd64 system?
[21:55] <randomaction> persia: I won't claim expertise, but yes.
[21:55] <randomaction> persia: whoops, I'm on i386
[21:55] <persia> I'm mostly looking for usage information :)  I'm planning to try to port the stuff I just did to make mk-sbuild-lv create armel schroots to pbuilder.
[21:55] <RAOF> I don't have an i386 chroot on hand, but from memory it's “pbuilder-dist lucid i386 create”
[21:55] <cody-somerville> With my pbuilder setup, I would run: sudo ARCH=i386 pbuilder create
[21:56] <persia> RAOF: OK.  Makes sense.  Thanks.
[21:57] <RAOF> Or, rather, I'd have a pbuilder-lucid-i386 symlink to pbuilder-dist
[21:57] <persia> So pbuilder-dist doesn't get called directly, but is symlinked?
[21:58] <RAOF> You can call it directly, but it's more convenient to symlink it.  Then tab-autocomplete works better.
[21:59] <persia> Makes sense.  That's why I asked for users :)
[21:59] <persia> Now I just have to try to untangle the python so I can determine the conditions when I want to replace the call to debootstrap.
[22:03] <Rhonda> What's ubuntu's stand with respect to regular menu files below /usr/share/menu and freedesktop files below /usr/share/applications?
[22:03] <Rhonda> Are regular menu files hidden for Ubuntu?
[22:03] <persia> Rhonda: There's lots of debate on the matter.
[22:03] <persia> The menu files aren't shown by default, although available in a "Debian" menu if menu-xdg is installed.
[22:04] <Rhonda> persia: see LP #511912, irssi is a textbased IRC client and I'm somewhat indifferent on adding a freedesktop file when the regular menu file is there …
[22:04] <Takyoji> So I'm relatively new to packaging software; but am familiar with using Linux and bash, along with some general software development. Any recommendations as a starting point? (such as the PackagingGuide on the wiki, or the New Maintainer's Guide on Debian.org)
[22:04] <persia> Many, but not all, application have XDG desktop entries.  Some people believe this should be done upstream, and not in packaging, because of translations issues.  Others tend to just add them.
[22:05] <persia> Rhonda: I'd suggest that 511912 is "wontfix" because it's a CLI client.  If you concur, I'm happy to so mark it.
[22:07] <Rhonda> persia: I don't want to play stubborn wontfix games if it is against some guideline I am not aware of yet. :)
[22:08] <persia> Not that I know about.  I'm one of the proponents of .desktop files for everything, but I don't really see the point of doing them for CLI apps.
[22:10]  * Rhonda thanks persia :)
[22:11] <Rhonda> I'll add at least the informations that installing menu-xdg will enable that part of the menu tree.
[22:11] <persia> Sounds like a good plan :)
[22:13] <randomaction> Takyoji: besides the two you mentioned, I'd recommend https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/devweek0909/PkgFromScratch which was awesome at the time (maybe some links have died since then)
[22:14] <Takyoji> alrighty
[22:18] <Takyoji> Another question I have is: is there any listing for projects that need a package maintainer?
[22:18] <persia> We don't have maintainers in Ubuntu.
[22:18] <persia> There's a heap of packages that need a maintainer in Debian, and there's another heap of stuff that only exists in Ubuntu that we'd appreciate help maintaining.
[22:19] <Takyoji> ahh
[22:22] <persia> OK.  So I've patched pbuilder-dist to permit the architecture-switching I wanted, but I'm getting a bit confused looking at pbuilder itself.  Right now, DEBOOTSTRAP="debootstrap" appears to be defined in pbuilderrc, rather than in code.  Anyone have any suggestions as to how to dynamically select an alternate debootstrap implementation depending on HOST/TARGET architecture combinations?
[22:25] <geser> have you tried setting it in the environment (export DEBOOTSTRAP)?
[22:26] <persia> geser: I haven't.  Does that work?
[22:26] <persia> As in, does a call like `DEBOOTSTRAP="echo" pbuilder-lucid-i386` print the right debootstrap command?
[22:27] <persia> Err, `DEBOOTSTRAP="echo" pbuilder-lucid-i386 create`
[22:27] <geser> hmm, probably not as pbuilderrc is sourced and overwrites those settings
[22:29] <geser> an other idea might be to write the setting into a temp file and pass it through --configfile (I need to check the code if it's source after the global one)
[22:29] <geser> or even easier: --debootstrap
[22:31] <kirkland> zooko: cheers
[22:33] <persia> geser: Ooh.  Excellent.  Thanks.
[22:39] <persia> OK.  Now I'm ready for a tester.  Anyone have an i386 or amd64, use pbuilder-dist from ubuntu-dev-tools, and have time to test something?
[22:40] <geser> sure, /me has amd64
[22:40] <mok0> persia: Will an sbuilder do?
[22:40] <persia> mok0: No.  I already make that case work.  Grab mk-sbuild-lv from bzr, and try --arch=armel
[22:41] <persia> geser: Thanks.  Please install qemu-arm-static, and then try the bzr pbuilder-dist with armel as your target architecture.
[22:42] <mok0> persia: what LP project?
[22:42] <persia> mok0: lp:ubuntu-dev-tools
[22:43]  * persia will upload the bundle if both pbuilder and sbuild support works, but otherwise wants to fix before uploading
[22:50] <mok0> persia: ... and build any old package?
[22:50] <persia> mok0: Sure, or run any old program (with schroot -p)
[22:50] <persia> For best results, pick something not currently on the FTBFS list :)
[22:51] <mok0> persia: mk-sbuild-lv failed :-(
[22:51] <mok0> W: Failure trying to run: chroot /tmp/schroot-2KvyJk mount -t proc proc /proc
[22:51] <persia> Why, and how?  It worked for me, but I didn't do lots of testing.
[22:51] <mok0> A warning really
[22:51] <persia> Are you running lucid?
[22:52] <mok0> persia: karmic
[22:52]  * persia hunts source
[22:53] <mok0> persia: I only have one workstation for my work. I haven't dared to install lucid on it
[22:53] <persia> heh.  Understood.
[22:56] <persia> mok0: I don't see any differences in build-arm-chroot between karmic and lucid.  Does mk-sbuild-lv work with your native architecture?
[22:56] <geser> persia: syntax error in line 317 (else if -> elif)
[22:57] <mok0> persia: yes I had no problems making an amd64 sbuildier
[22:58] <persia> geser: Thanks.  Fixing.
[22:58] <persia> Oddly, both show correct with my syntax highlighting.
[22:58] <mok0> Hm, you don't need to be root to run mk-lv-sbuild, right? I forget
[22:58] <geser> I guess "else: if" would also work
[22:59] <persia> mok0: You shouldn't be ruut.  It runs with sudo
[22:59] <persia> geser: Committed the change to elif anyway.
[22:59] <mok0> It actually refuses to run with sudo
[22:59] <geser> persia: E: Unknown option [--debootstrap=build-arm-chroot] was specified
[22:59] <persia> mok0: It uses sudo internally.
[23:00] <persia> geser: Hrm.  I think I have to investigate pbuilder code more.  The manpage seems to document --debootstrap, but it may trap "incorrect" values.
[23:00] <geser> persia: s/=/ /
[23:01] <persia> Just found that :)
[23:03] <geser> persia: next one: E: unsupported architecture: --arch
[23:03]  * persia was sure that was fixed, and looks again
[23:04] <mok0> Oh, hang on
[23:04] <mok0> ah
[23:04]  * geser has r572
[23:05] <persia> geser: I found the issue.  It will be in 575
[23:05] <mok0> the lvm partition was made, but schroot -l doesn't list it
[23:06] <persia> geser: pushed
[23:06] <persia> mok0: Did debootstrap complete?  It really worked for me.
[23:07] <persia> http://paste.ubuntu.com/368455/
[23:10] <geser> persia: E: Couldn't download dists/lucid/main/binary-armel/Packages
[23:10] <geser> E: build-arm-chroot failed
[23:10] <persia> Grr, mirror failure.
[23:11]  * persia tries to figure out how that is set
[23:11] <crimsun> 10
[23:11] <crimsun> gah
[23:11] <persia> 9
[23:11] <geser> 221
[23:11] <geser> that's the line for the mirror setting
[23:12] <persia> It doesn't seem to be very rich.  Compare to lines 233-281 in mk-sbuild-lv
[23:16] <persia> How does one do logical AND in python?
[23:16] <geser> True and False
[23:18] <persia> So http://paste.ubuntu.com/368530/ should (roughly) do the right thing?
[23:22] <dooooomi> mok0: about your comment on klick's copyright file: it says that all samples are gpl, so i'm not sure what exactly is missing. maybe it's just the wording that's not clear enough?
[23:23] <mok0> dooooomi: hm? Let me check again
[23:25] <mok0> dooooomi: Indeed
[23:26] <mok0> dooooomi: however I still think the new format is better, and clearer
[23:27] <mok0> dooooomi: especially because there are several copyright holders
[23:30] <dooooomi> mok0: yup, i'll just change it to the new format. seems like a good idea anyway
[23:31] <jsplice> hello
[23:32] <mok0> dooooomi: great
[23:32] <jsplice> i'm interested in contributing, but am a bit overwhelmed by all the stuff on the ubuntu site...was hoping someone could give me a push in the right direction
[23:32] <jsplice> i'm a java developer but would like to do some C++ stuff
[23:32] <mok0> jsplice: like what? Bugfixing?
[23:33] <jsplice> yea i think that would be a good place to start
[23:33] <dooooomi> mok0: if i changed just the file format of a sample (in this case, C code to .wav), does that make me a copyright holder? or should i only mention the original copyright holder?
[23:33] <persia> jsplice: Have you already encountered some bugs in c++ programs, or would you like help finding them?
[23:34] <mok0> dooooomi: Copyright applies to the content, so no I wouldn't say so
[23:34] <jsplice> i would like to help find them, and hopefully expose my self to the source, to become more familiar with linux C++ development
[23:35] <mok0> dooooomi: otherwise, I could reformat an ebook and gain copyright :-)
[23:35] <mok0> dooooomi: 3. profit
[23:35] <persia> jsplice: Well, I'd suggest asking in #kubuntu-devel, as most of their stuff is in c++.  If you've no luck there, try here again, and we can maybe find something.
[23:35] <dooooomi> mok0: hehe, makes sense
[23:35] <mok0> jsplice: do you have an LP account?
[23:35] <jsplice> persia: what is all the gnome stuff written in?
[23:36] <mok0> C
[23:36] <jsplice> mok0: yes
[23:36] <persia> Erm, one *does* gain copyright on a format shift, over the specific new media.  This doesn't grant copyright over either the original source, nor does it prevent others from converting themselves.
[23:36] <mok0> jsplice: you also need to become familiar with the general workflow on LP
[23:36] <persia> Erm, not quite.  GNOME is written in a special dialect of C :)
[23:37] <persia> (gobjects just don't belong in K&R)
[23:37] <mok0> persia: still C thought
[23:37] <persia> Well, maybe :)
[23:37] <RAOF> But object-oriented C, with closures & signals & a main loop.
[23:37] <mok0> AFAIK some of gnome developement is moving to C#
[23:38] <mok0> aka mono
[23:38] <persia> I've also seen a fair bit of Vala
[23:38] <jsplice> C#...that's interesting
[23:38] <Laney> c# is not (or should not be) aka mono
[23:38] <RAOF> As long as you're not forced to directly interact with unmanaged code, GC is the bees knees & the ant's pyjamas.
[23:39] <jsplice> mok0: will becoming more familiar with LP make contributing an easier thing to approach?
[23:39] <mok0> jsplice: I would say definitely
[23:40] <mok0> jsplice: process a dozen bugs and you know much more
[23:40] <jsplice> mok0, by process, do you mean fix them?
[23:40] <mok0> jsplice: no
[23:41] <mok0> jsplice: look at it, see if you can reproduce it, find out if there is enough info for the -devs, ask contributor to provide more,
[23:41] <mok0> jsplice: etc
[23:42] <mok0> Lets see what ubotty says
[23:42] <mok0> !bugs
[23:42] <jsplice> mok0, ok I understand what you mean now...what is the preferred IDE for this type of development?
[23:43] <mok0> jsplice: webbrowser?
[23:43] <persia> The best IDE is the one which makes you happy
[23:43] <jsplice> no i mean IDE for when i want to compile, debug, etc.
[23:43] <jsplice> if i want to reproduce the error and step through the source code
[23:44] <mok0> jsplice: You are asking because you are not familiar with Linux?
[23:44] <jsplice> mok0, for the most part yes...i use Eclipse at work for all my development
[23:44] <mok0> jsplice: ... doesn't that work for non-java projects?
[23:45] <jsplice> mok0, yes i believe it has a C/C++ plugin...i'm only asking because i didn't know if most ubuntu developers preferred a particular IDE for any reason
[23:45] <mok0> jsplice: I'm a CLI guy... I just use make, emacs, etc
[23:45] <jsplice> ah ok
[23:46] <mok0> jsplice: so, I don't know much about IDEs. Theres Kdevelop for the Kubuntu stuff, codelite,... many others
[23:48] <mok0> jsplice: generally, I feel IDEs are getting in my way :-)
[23:48] <mok0> perhaps because I don't want to bother learning a program the does something I already know how to do :-)
[23:48] <jsplice> mok0, yea, that can be true sometimes...i use spring and Java at work, so i'm not used to all the low-level configuring of make and stuff like that
[23:49] <jsplice> maven makes that easier for me with java development
[23:49] <mok0> jsplice: well, you probably will need to look at makefiles sometimes
[23:49] <jsplice> mok0, yea i figured it would be part of the learning process
[23:50] <mok0> jsplice: of course you can always come here to ask
[23:50] <jsplice> mok0, thanks, i appreciate it...i'm sure i will need help
[23:50] <mok0> jsplice: great! We really need it
[23:51] <mok0> jsplice: but first, see what you can learn about bug triaging
[23:51] <geser> persia: looks like it works now, it's downloading the base system
[23:52] <jsplice> mok0, will that information by on the LP site?
[23:52] <persia> geser: Cool.  Thanks.  I'll double-check state,and upload.
[23:52] <jsplice> *be
[23:52] <mok0> jsplice: most tutorial stuff is on the wiki... here is one link to get you started : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Triaging
[23:52] <jsplice> mok0, ok great...thanks
[23:53] <mok0> jsplice: there are some LP teams you can join, some of them will get you further privileges
[23:54] <jsplice> mok0, ah ok
[23:54] <mok0> jsplice: for triaging, consider yourself as sitting in "the reception"... you will be the first one to look at a bug report
[23:55] <mok0> jsplice: and you have to get the bug report in shape, to spare the -devs from having to get additional info etc.
[23:55] <jsplice> mok0, ok i get it...so like you said, that person must try to reproduce the errors and get more info if needed
[23:55] <mok0> jsplice: if you can fix the bug yourself, so much better!
[23:55] <mok0> jsplice: right
[23:56] <jsplice> mok0, what repository management software is used for all of this? subversion?
[23:57] <mok0> jsplice: Ubuntu uses bazaar
[23:58] <mok0> jsplice: you don't need to use that if you don't want to
[23:58] <mok0> jsplice: if you fix a bug, the standard way is to attach a patch to the bug report
[23:59] <jsplice> ok i see
[23:59] <jsplice> i've never heard of bazaar
[23:59] <mok0> jsplice: In the future, we may move towards a more bzr centric approach
[23:59] <mok0> jsplice: it is a DVCS mainly developed by Canonical


[11:32] <smartboyhw> What's the next meeting coming?
[11:52] <smartboyhw> Hello
[11:57] <bootini> hi
[11:57] <bootini> next meeting ... dunno
[12:15] <astraljava> smartboyhw: Calendar is at http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar.
[12:28] <smartboyhw> Yeah, great...
[14:01]  * skaet waves
[14:01]  * stgraber waves
[14:01] <stgraber> smoser, stokachu, jibel, NCommander, jamespage: ping
[14:01] <NCommander> o/
[14:02] <seb128> hey
[14:02] <smartboyhw> Oh, what meeting is this?
[14:02] <stgraber> #startmeeting 12.04.1 team meeting
[14:02] <meetingology> Meeting started Thu Aug  2 14:02:34 2012 UTC.  The chair is stgraber. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[14:02] <meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
[14:02] <smartboyhw> Good...
[14:02] <Daviey> smoser is here, he is just slacking.
[14:02] <stgraber> #topic Action items review
[14:02] <arges> o/
[14:03] <stgraber> so, only action on the list is xnox's usual item but he's not around, so keeping on the list ;)
[14:03] <stgraber> #topic Review of upcoming deadlines
[14:03] <stgraber> Daviey: good to know ;)
[14:03] <smartboyhw> o/
[14:03] <stgraber>   - today 21:00 UTC: Beginning of PointReleaseProcess and DesktopInfrastructureFreeze
[14:03] <stgraber>   - 2012/08/09: KernelFreeze, LanguageTranslationDeadline, SRU Fix Validation Testing
[14:03] <stgraber>   - 2012/08/16: FinalFreeze, ReleaseNoteFreeze
[14:03] <stgraber>   - 2012/08/23: Ubuntu 12.04.1
[14:04] <smartboyhw> o/
[14:04] <stgraber> please remind all your team members that uploads for the point release need to happen by TODAY 21:00 UTC (7 hours from now)
[14:04] <stgraber> smartboyhw: yes?
[14:04] <smartboyhw> Er, thank you for giving us, the QA team, to test daily builds
[14:05] <smartboyhw> We will be testing the builds progressively in the weeks...
[14:05] <smartboyhw> ..
[14:05] <stgraber> cool, thanks
[14:05] <stgraber> #topic Quick look through the current bug lists, checking for progress.
[14:05] <stgraber> The number of targeted bugs went from 106 last week to 75!
[14:05] <stgraber> Of these 75, 32 are in fix commited state (likely waiting in -proposed)
[14:05] <stgraber> and 9 are marked "in progress" (waiting to be approved).
[14:05] <stgraber> So that's 34 bugs that still need fixing of which 12 aren't assigned to somebody.
[14:05] <seb128> it would help if http://people.canonical.com/~arges/point-release/milestone-12.04.1.html was updated
[14:05] <seb128> the current page is from july 26
[14:06] <stgraber> arges: ^
[14:06] <arges> seb128, yes
[14:06] <arges> seb128, so i'm trying to get it set up as a cronjob on cranberry
[14:06] <smoser> o/
[14:06] <arges> seb128, working with DAs on getting that going
[14:06] <arges> and skaet , Ursinha , bdmurray etc
[14:07] <seb128> can you run it manually once today?
[14:07] <arges> seb128, yea i'll just do that
[14:07] <seb128> thanks
[14:07] <stgraber> The full list of bugs can be found at: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/precise/+bugs?field.milestone%3Alist=49926
[14:07] <stgraber> The list of remaining bugs to fix can be found at: http://goo.gl/RUiZe
[14:07] <stgraber> Some of these aren't assigned to someone yet: http://goo.gl/22zV2
[14:07] <stgraber> Any bug that's on the list and doesn't have a fix in -proposed or waiting in the unapproved queue will be re-targeted to 12.04.2 shortly after 21:00 UTC today.
[14:07] <stgraber> It'd be good if all teams could go through the bug list and re-target bugs to realistic milestones before I re-target the rest to 12.04.2.
[14:07] <stgraber> If you have any bug that absolutely needs to be fixed for 12.04.1 and needs to stay on the list, please ping me with the bug number so I make sure not to move it to 12.04.2. Current list is: bug 1017001, bug 991982, bug 1029531 and bug 987411.
[14:09] <smartboyhw> how to ping?
[14:09] <stgraber> any other bugs that you know won't make it by the deadline but is needed for the point release?
[14:09] <smartboyhw> I thoughy 1029531 is a serious one
[14:10] <stgraber> yes, and if you look up, you'll see that it's on the list of bugs that are allowed to be fixed post-deadline
[14:10] <smartboyhw> What is bug 991982/
[14:10] <smartboyhw> See...
[14:10] <stgraber> critical security bug
[14:11] <stgraber> can't give more details than that, sorry. I have the fix for it but because of its nature, it'll only be uploaded very shortly before we build the final images.
[14:11] <stgraber> #topic Media oversizedness
[14:11] <stgraber> Just wanted to give a quick status update on that one.
[14:11] <smartboyhw> Yeah, they really need to be fixed
[14:11] <smartboyhw> Thanks, stgraber
[14:12] <stgraber> infinity uploaded a new live-build fixing the duplication of kernel headers
[14:12] <stgraber> this should free around 2MB per affected livefs
[14:12] <stgraber> so that's still between 5MB and 7MB that need to be tracked down and fixed by either changing whatever's taking the extra space or removing langpacks
[14:12] <smartboyhw> Removing langpacks would be a good idea, I think
[14:13] <smartboyhw> Put it in the DVDs:)
[14:13] <stgraber> removing some langpacks is the usual last option, sadly we've been using that trick quite a lot lately so there's pretty much nothing to remove
[14:14] <stgraber> anyway, I'll be looking into that later this week (after the deadline), it might require some uploads or if we're lucky, just seed changes
[14:14] <smartboyhw> HAHA
[14:15] <seb128> do we know what took the place between 12.04 and 12.04.1
[14:15] <seb128> ?
[14:15] <smartboyhw> Daily builds?
[14:16] <seb128> what about daily builds?
[14:16] <stgraber> seb128: nope, though the current guess is firefox/thunderbird/libreoffice, but that's just a guess
[14:16] <smartboyhw> It's the Daily Builds compiled for 12.04.1 and 12.10, which we QA Team test...
[14:17] <stgraber> skaet: hmm, I thought the upper limit was 703MB bug I see a kubuntu build at 704MB not marked as oversized... will have to check if that's just a rounding issue or if something's broken with the check
[14:17] <skaet> seb128,  we've got scripts that will pull the changelogs
[14:17] <smartboyhw> It is 703MiB...
[14:18] <seb128> skaet, I though we had tools telling us what changed between isos?
[14:18] <smartboyhw> I mean the limit
[14:18] <stgraber> seb128: I believe we have tools to diff the manifests though we don't have enough history data to pinpoint the image where we went oversized
[14:18] <skaet> stgraber, yeah,  all of the flavors will need to be double checked.
[14:19] <stgraber> so will have to go through a pretty long list
[14:19] <smartboyhw> Lubuntu, Kubuntu, Edubuntu, Ubuntu Studio, Normal Ubuntu...
[14:19] <smartboyhw> Xubuntu
[14:19] <smartboyhw> ..
[14:20] <stgraber> #topic Round table
[14:20] <stgraber> stgraber@castiana:~$ echo $(shuf -e NCommander seb128 stgraber stokachu arges jibel skaet smoser jamespage)
[14:20] <stgraber> smoser stokachu seb128 jibel NCommander stgraber skaet jamespage arges
[14:20] <stgraber> smoser: you win :)
[14:20] <smartboyhw> Congrats...
[14:20] <skaet> seb128,  there are some tools,  but improvements needed. :/
[14:20] <smoser> ok.
[14:20] <smoser> we have made some progress.. again, maas is our big thing that is left out
[14:20] <smoser> roaksoax is working on that.
[14:21] <smoser> i had told him that today is deadline, but honestly i think that next week is a better target for his work (and more realisitic)
[14:21] <smoser> fi there are other thing sthat you feel need priority, then i'm willing to go find a stick.
[14:21] <Daviey> .. well today is simply not viable.
[14:21] <smartboyhw> I agree...
[14:21] <smoser> other than that, i think we're doing ok, and that is all from me.
[14:22] <stgraber> smoser, Daviey, jamespage: can you give me a list of server bugs that you will fix for the point release but won't make it today?
[14:22] <smoser> stgraber, can i come back to you with that?
[14:22] <stgraber> sure, just make sure you give me that before 21:00 UTC if you don't want to see your bugs getting milestoned to .2 :)
[14:23] <stgraber> stokachu:
[14:23] <smartboyhw> Could one of you go to the Ubuntu QA Meeting on 8th August?
[14:23] <smartboyhw> I will add it to the agenda to discuss about 12.04.1
[14:23] <smartboyhw> 1400UTC
[14:23] <smoser> k
[14:24] <stgraber> smartboyhw: can you wait until we're done with the roundtable and get to the AOB part of the meeting? (I won't make it at least, meeting conflict)
[14:24] <smartboyhw> Sorry...
[14:25] <stgraber> seb128: you're up (no stokachu apparently)
[14:25] <seb128> hey
[14:25] <seb128> so desktop is mostly done for .1, some bugs didn't made it but that's not end of the world and not important for the iso
[14:25] <arges> stgraber, yea no stokes. i know he's been heads down with multiarch work
[14:25] <seb128> we still have a nux and some easy updates in the proposed queue
[14:26] <seb128> upload date is counted for what goes in right?
[14:26] <stgraber> yes
[14:26] <stgraber> if it's in unapproved, it's fine by me
[14:26] <seb128> we delayed the unity performances improvement to after .1, too risky that late
[14:26] <seb128> otherwise something to sort for .1
[14:26] <seb128> the desktop team really wants whoopsie off by default
[14:26] <seb128> what's the right place, people to discuss, decide this?
[14:27] <skaet> seb128,  start a thread on ubuntu-release
[14:27] <seb128> ok
[14:27] <smartboyhw> I will go to #ubuntu-release now to see...
[14:27] <seb128> ..
[14:27] <smartboyhw> Hmm...
[14:27] <seb128> I'm done otherwise
[14:27] <seb128> what's the opinion of people here on whoopsie by default?
[14:27] <arges> seb128, skaet : i've been noticing its popping up a lot less with the latest precise...  does it not pop up if its a known crash?
[14:28] <seb128> arges, it does stop bothering you after 3 times, but that's considered a bug by the whoopsie guys, it should bother you every time you hit the bug
[14:29] <arges> seb128, hmm. whats the bug #?
[14:29] <arges> i've love to make sure i'm sending those reports
[14:29] <skaet> arges,   ev will know for certain and should be part of the discussion at any rate.
[14:29] <seb128> arges, not sure
[14:29] <arges> ok
[14:30] <stgraber> I think it'll be an interesting discussion, whoopsie was definitely designed to be always on but I can also see how it's annoying for some users.
[14:30] <seb128> the cost-benefit seems in our disfavor at this point imho
[14:30] <seb128> (I discussed that with pitti and didrocks and some others last week)
[14:31] <arges> either way it would be good for it to be switchable for those of us that want to send those reports
[14:31] <seb128> we bother lot of users and give the impression that the system is unstable
[14:31] <stgraber> I'm wondering if we couldn't get away with changing the popup message and offering to "always silently report" and "never report for that user" in that same dialog, so that user can choose to stop being poked all the time but still send the crashes (making the choice to send us data without reviewing it first)
[14:31] <seb128> imho we should have it always one, but not for the lts since it's too early
[14:32] <seb128> errors.ubuntu.com is still buggy and we still have backlog of issues and annoy users too much
[14:32] <skaet> seb128,   can you include the bug number info in the email thread (and if no bug number exists create one?)
[14:32] <seb128> ok
[14:32] <stgraber> so yeah, I think it's a good discussion to have and one where we definitely need Evan involved, so<EMAIL_ADDRESS>sounds like the right place for that
[14:32] <seb128> is ev on that list?
[14:32] <stgraber> good question
[14:33] <stgraber> skaet: can you check? (I don't have mailman access to that one)
[14:33] <skaet> seb128,  I'll check,  but make it explicit to him,  just in case
[14:33] <seb128> ok
[14:33] <smartboyhw> I'm back
[14:33] <stgraber> jibel:
[14:33] <stgraber> around? (I know you're sprinting)
[14:33] <jibel> hi
[14:33] <jibel> Ran manual upgrade tests, found 1029531
[14:34] <jibel> Continued with SRU verification
[14:34] <jibel> Found a little confusion around Wubi images that were overwritting Quantal ones.
[14:34] <jibel> infinity fixed it 1 hour ago, waiting for Precise wubi images to show up and proceed to verification.
[14:34] <smartboyhw> Bug 1029531
[14:34] <jibel> wubi.exe will need an update to point to the location of 12.04.1 disk images.
[14:34] <smartboyhw> I know that one
[14:34] <jibel> smartboyhw, please wait until ..
[14:34] <smartboyhw> I mean the bug
[14:35] <jibel> Not much otherwise since I've been sprinting all week, will continue with SRU verification next week.
[14:35] <jibel> ..
[14:35] <skaet> jibel, I've put a ping in to ev on update to 12.04.1
[14:35] <jibel> skaet, ta
[14:35] <seb128> did we sort out https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gsettings-desktop-schemas/+bug/1022864 btw
[14:35] <skaet> for wubi,  but haven't heard back.   will keep it on the radar.
[14:36] <jibel> seb128, no, not yet, it's on my todo first thing next week
[14:36] <seb128> nobody replied to pitti's comment
[14:36] <seb128> jibel, thanks
[14:38] <stgraber> NCommander:
[14:38] <NCommander> Highbank migrated to updates and is set for 12.04.1
[14:38] <NCommander> I'm getting armadaxp checked in prep for 12.04.1 and we're looking pretty solid for the release
[14:39] <NCommander> ..
[14:41] <stgraber> stgraber:
[14:42] <stgraber> I've been going through the foundations bug, clearing the list quite a bit. We're now left with an eglibc update and the security bugs to upload
[14:42] <stgraber> eglibc should land this weekend at the latest, the others will land just before final freeze
[14:43] <stgraber> I've been doing a bit of verification, trying to get that list a bit shorter, uploaded and tested a refreshed ubiquity (picking up the ARM stuff and the d-i-u fix)
[14:44] <stgraber> I'll continue with the nagging for the rest of today, deal with the freeze (+ re-target) and then start looking into the oversizedness problem
[14:44] <stgraber> ..
[14:44] <stgraber> skaet:
[14:44] <skaet> New translations are being uploaded to -proposed now.
[14:44] <skaet> Daily Precise builds have been enabled for all the images on the manifest.
[14:44] <skaet> #action Flavor leads participating,  please verify that the images are as you expect,  and start smoke testing tomorrow to make sure all the right 12.04.1 bits are in place.
[14:44] <skaet> #link http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/204/builds
[14:44] <skaet> Will be starting on updating the Release Notes for 12.04.1 this week, and pulling information from the various leads.
[14:44] <meetingology> ACTION: Flavor leads participating,  please verify that the images are as you expect,  and start smoke testing tomorrow to make sure all the right 12.04.1 bits are in place.
[14:44] <skaet> What's new is that we will be snapshotting (and saving) what is currently there for 12.04 and then updating the notes to reflect the 12.04.1 status and changelogs.
[14:44] <skaet> ..
[14:45] <skaet> stgraber,  there's an ABI bump on the new kernel,  will you be handling it as well?
[14:45] <skaet> s/it/d-i changes/
[14:45] <stgraber> skaet: I can do that, yes.
[14:45] <skaet> stgraber,  thanks!  :)
[14:45] <stgraber> skaet: what's the ETA for the new kernel?
[14:46] <stgraber> I know they have an extra week to have their things uploaded
[14:46] <skaet> stgraber,  I'll get with you offline about it.    There's one that just went up,  but not sure if there will be another.
[14:48]  * skaet trying to get some more info on that
[14:48] <skaet> ..
[14:48] <stgraber> jamespage:
[14:49] <Daviey> stgraber: he is away today
[14:49] <stgraber> ok
[14:49] <stgraber> arges:
[14:49] <arges> stgraber, been trying to get my reports on cranberry, working on this.
[14:49] <arges> in the meantime will get it working on my desktop. just updated the report.
[14:50] <arges> ..
[14:51] <stgraber> #topic AOB
[14:51] <smartboyhw> o/
[14:51] <stgraber> smartboyhw: go ahead
[14:51] <smartboyhw> Yep
[14:51] <smartboyhw> As I said before, I invite you to one of our QA meetings
[14:52] <smartboyhw> Since the QA team would like to talk about 12.04.1
[14:52] <smartboyhw> Er... Maybe on 8th August or 15th August..
[14:52] <smartboyhw> ..
[14:52] <skaet> smartboyhw, I'll try to be there
[14:53] <skaet> ..
[14:53] <stgraber> I have a conflict at that time but might still be looking at IRC, we'll see.
[14:53] <smartboyhw> The 8th August or 15th August?
[14:53] <smartboyhw> I only need 1 representative.
[14:54] <smartboyhw> ..
[14:54] <skaet> smartboyhw,  I can do the 8th.
[14:54] <stgraber> my conflict is on every Wednesdays, so if skaet can make it, that's good. Though it sounds like we're having a lot of meetings (release + 12.04.1) and we already have jibel from QA in the 12.04.1 meeting to coordinate the work.
[14:54] <smartboyhw> Good. I will add it to the agenda
[14:55] <smartboyhw> 1400UTC, chair phillw.
[14:55] <smartboyhw> ..
[14:55] <stgraber> alright, time to get back to trying to fix these 34 remaining bugs ;)
[14:55] <stgraber> #endmeeting
[14:55] <meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Aug  2 14:55:34 2012 UTC.
[14:55] <meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-08-02-14.02.moin.txt
[14:55] <meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-08-02-14.02.html
[14:55] <stgraber> thanks everyone!
[14:55] <smartboyhw> Thanks..
[14:55] <skaet> Thanks stgraber
[14:56] <arges> thanks
[14:56] <arges> :q!
[14:56] <jibel> thank you stgraber
[17:00] <czajkowski> pleia2: beuno shall we start :)
[17:00] <pleia2> si!
[17:00] <beuno> o/
[17:00] <czajkowski> #startmeeting
[17:00] <meetingology> Meeting started Thu Aug  2 17:00:44 2012 UTC.  The chair is czajkowski. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[17:00] <meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
[17:00] <JoseeAntonioR> hablando español, huh?
[17:00] <czajkowski> Aloha and welcome to Augusts meeting of the lovely CC folks :)
[17:01] <itnet7> Hey there!~
[17:01] <pleia2> JoseeAntonioR: un poco
[17:01] <czajkowski> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda
[17:01] <czajkowski> this weeks agenda
[17:01] <czajkowski> #topic LoCo Council catch up
[17:01] <czajkowski> itnet7: greg-g huats ping
[17:02] <itnet7> Hey there again ;-)
[17:02] <czajkowski> thanks for coming to the meeting , this is just a catch up like last cycle to let the CC know how things are going, how they can help in any way and just general feedback
[17:02] <itnet7> Cool, thanks for having us!
[17:03] <czajkowski> also apologies from sabdfl for the meeting
[17:03] <czajkowski> and from paolo, cproffit
[17:03] <pleia2> summertime means vacations :)
[17:04] <czajkowski> itnet7: so care to tell us how the LC is doing ? anything you want to share ?
[17:04] <itnet7> Things are going pretty well as far as I can tell, we're trying to find ways of working together, though it seems a lot of us have a bunch of stuff going on lately in our personal lives
[17:05] <pleia2> I know how that can get :\
[17:05] <pleia2> how many reapprovals this cycle?
[17:05] <czajkowski> we had over 34 to do
[17:05] <czajkowski> and we're down to 15
[17:05] <pleia2> wow!
[17:05] <czajkowski> so that's been really good
[17:06] <pleia2> nice job
[17:06] <czajkowski> and keeps us on our toes
[17:06] <czajkowski> many come to our meeting and others due to timezone difference and language come via email
[17:06] <czajkowski> which has worked out well and something we started to do to help people
[17:06] <pleia2> great
[17:06] <itnet7> Teams are very excited, and have been doing a lot of great things
[17:07] <pleia2> council itself aside, any issues you're seeing with loco teams more generally?
[17:07] <czajkowski> one issue I see a lot is people not communicating issues down to the rest of their teams
[17:07] <itnet7> agreed
[17:08] <czajkowski> so we may post stuff to loco contacts list but we don't know if it goes to the rest of the team
[17:08]  * pleia2 nods
[17:08] <czajkowski> an example of this would be the CDs even up to re approvals we note people havent received their cds and it's just a case of people have just not made any noise about it, and an email later and they have been sorted
[17:08] <pleia2> has the loco council blog helped with that at all do you think?
[17:08] <czajkowski> pleia2: a little but again not the level I'd hoped to be honest.
[17:09] <pleia2> that's tough
[17:09] <itnet7> I haven't really been able to contribute to the LC Blog
[17:10] <YokoZar> The CDs issue seems to be a recurrent one, honestly.  I wonder if we can figure out a way to track/manage that better.
[17:10] <czajkowski> itnet7: I think we as a team could improve on that, so our monthly report could go on there
[17:10] <czajkowski> YokoZar: well out of over 80 teams, only 5 didn't get them so far
[17:10] <czajkowski> a lot of is it down to people not filling in the form correctly, or the CDs being stuck at customs in some counteries
[17:10] <czajkowski> it has improved vastly
[17:10] <pleia2> without my CC hat on, the Ubuntu Weekly Newsletter has a LoCo section, which we are always looking to populate, so if there is ever anything you guys need added there to help spread the word, please let me know (already grab everything that goes to planet) or if you have ideas for that section
[17:11] <czajkowski> pleia2: thank you
[17:11] <itnet7> awesome
[17:11] <pleia2> good to hear at least the CD situation is improving :)
[17:11] <czajkowski> indeed
[17:11] <czajkowski> an like all things, there is often some tweaking needed
[17:12] <czajkowski> so now more notice is given to people to apply, but even then people apply late so then large orders come in one go so we did ry and get people to appy early so itcould be better handled
[17:12] <czajkowski> there is often the big confusion of a TEAM CONTACT and  a TEAM leader
[17:12] <czajkowski> and then some teams have a team council
[17:12] <itnet7> Yeah, That's true
[17:13] <czajkowski> this leads to utter confusion
[17:13] <pleia2> I bet
[17:13] <czajkowski> we have given feedback to shippit on this
[17:13] <czajkowski> asking for some fields not to be made mantatory like for example state, or zip/postal code
[17:13] <czajkowski> as some counteries do not have this
[17:13]  * pleia2 nods
[17:13] <czajkowski> and it messes up shipping
[17:13] <czajkowski> so we do give feedback as much as possible
[17:14] <itnet7> they have worked hard at correcting the issues once they are aware of them!!
[17:14] <czajkowski> nods
[17:14] <pleia2> so, how do we get more loco teams blogging/writing/cheering about the awesome stuff they do so the whole community can see? :)
[17:15] <czajkowski> we we had hoped team reports would help there
[17:15] <czajkowski> at least to give us an insight reguarly but many dont do this and would like better intergration into loco.u.c which has been promoted a lot
[17:15] <pleia2> team reports in general are in a pretty sad state, very few teams across the ubuntu community do them anymore
[17:15] <itnet7> pleia2: as far as I can see, maybe we can indvidually encourage when we here some of the great things that teams are doing
[17:16] <czajkowski> itnet7: +1
[17:16] <itnet7> *hear
[17:16] <pleia2> that'd be good
[17:16] <czajkowski> some of the re approval applications I've seen are mind blowing
[17:16] <czajkowski> it's amazing
[17:16] <beuno> and come out of the blue!
[17:16] <itnet7> They have been great, and when teams take their time it makes the process go much smoother
[17:16] <beuno> you suddenly hear about amazing events
[17:16] <pleia2> maybe use the loco council blog if they need a place to blog to? "guest post from the great columbian team!" or somesuch
[17:17] <itnet7> pleia2: that sounds like a good idea!
[17:17] <YokoZar> czajkowski: ~shipit forms, I think there's "some solution" out there that knows exactly which countries need states/postal codes, and in those cases exactly how many digits they should be
[17:17] <JoseeAntonioR> erm, about the CD stuff, it's recurrent in South America (as far as I know), and some countries didn't get them out even if they paid their taxes, although a lot of them did get them paying
[17:17] <czajkowski> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ItalianTeam/ReApprovalApplication2012 as an example, highlight they have 27 Ubuntu members
[17:18] <pleia2> gosh :)
[17:18] <czajkowski> pleia2: indeed right!
[17:18] <czajkowski> so maybe we should highlight these teams each month on the blog
[17:18] <pleia2> yeah, that'd be really great, it's very inspiring
[17:19] <czajkowski> ok
[17:19] <pleia2> sounds like things are mostly going well anyway, anything the CC can do to help at all?
[17:19] <czajkowski> itnet7: we shall do that
[17:19] <czajkowski> no I think we do need as a council to work better on feedback and moving things on ourselves
[17:20]  * pleia2 nods
[17:20] <czajkowski> we have ideas and plans, and then we dont seem to be able to push past the discussion to make a decison as we have lots of opinions
[17:20] <czajkowski> which I find frustrating
[17:20] <itnet7> agreed
[17:20] <itnet7> but it seems that it's usually only contrversial type decisions
[17:20] <czajkowski> itnet7: well thats true indeed
[17:20] <itnet7> I think for the most part we are working well, on day to day stuff
[17:21] <itnet7> it's just the big items really
[17:21] <czajkowski> but thats sometimes where the bullet has to be bitten or we end up going around in circles hitting the same issue every few months
[17:21] <itnet7> Yeah, I agree
[17:21] <czajkowski> itnet7: aye so we do work well we just could do with a bit more commuicating
[17:22] <czajkowski> I know timezones and personal lives are rather busy at times
[17:22] <pleia2> I know you guys were doing hangouts (and inspired CC to as well), still doing those at all?
[17:22] <czajkowski> pleia2: we cant seem to find a suitable timezone one that isn't a weekend :/
[17:22] <czajkowski> so no
[17:22]  * pleia2 nods
[17:23] <czajkowski> which is a shame as they do work as the CC can tell to improve communication, even if the hangout is only 15 mins
[17:23] <pleia2> yeah, just helps us pick up loose ends
[17:23] <itnet7> czajkowski: we can probably work on trying to make the time, as I think the few I was able to attend were worthwhile
[17:23] <czajkowski> indeed
[17:24] <czajkowski> anyone any other comments.
[17:25] <pleia2> thanks for coming :)
[17:25] <czajkowski> cheers
[17:25] <itnet7> Thanks pleia2 !
[17:26] <czajkowski> anything else folks ?
[17:26] <pleia2> a few updates
[17:26] <czajkowski> #topic updates
[17:26] <czajkowski> pleia2: you have the floor
[17:26] <pleia2> the forums council brought to our attention the needed upgrade to 4.x of the forums software, so czajkowski followed up on the ticket and things are moving forward
[17:27] <pleia2> it's now tossed out to the community to help write the SSO plugin: http://www.jorgecastro.org/2012/07/31/ubuntu-forums-needs-single-sign-on-again/
[17:27] <pleia2> the upgrade is required for new spam prevention tools, forums staff are killing themselves manually managing spam right now :\
[17:27] <pleia2> so help is appreciated!
[17:28] <czajkowski> indeed, we have loads of developers surely someone can help
[17:28] <pleia2> the CoC rewrite is still pending, when dholbach comes back from vacation he'll merge in some changes we discussed and we'll do another call to the community for final feedback once we've gone through it again
[17:28] <pleia2> I think that's it :)
[17:29] <czajkowski> okie dokie
[17:29] <czajkowski> thank for coming folks
[17:29] <czajkowski> #endmeeting
[17:29] <meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Aug  2 17:29:47 2012 UTC.
[17:29] <meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-08-02-17.00.moin.txt
[17:29] <meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-08-02-17.00.html
[17:29] <czajkowski> nicely done :)
[17:30] <pleia2> I'll update the wiki and meeting minutes in a bit
[17:30] <pleia2> looks like the membership board is next on the agenda, so I'll drop them an email too
[17:31] <czajkowski> lovely jubbly
[17:31] <czajkowski> right dinner time
[17:31] <czajkowski> toodles
[21:52] <s-fox> ping s9iper1 :)
[21:52] <s9iper1> hey s-fox
[21:53] <s9iper1> shall we start ?
[21:53] <s-fox> s9iper1,  not yet, you're the only candidate here at the minute :)
[21:53] <s9iper1> ok
[21:55] <s-fox> hello Fitoschido  :)
[21:57] <micahg> it's also not 22:00 UTC yet :0
[22:01] <s-fox> Ping Fitoschido
[22:03] <Fitoschido> HI
[22:03] <Fitoschido> !
[22:03] <Fitoschido> I'm her
[22:03] <Fitoschido> e
[22:03] <iulian> OK, who's here from the board?
[22:04] <s-fox> o/
[22:04] <beuno> o/
[22:04] <micahg> o/
[22:04] <iulian> #startmeeting
[22:04] <meetingology> Meeting started Thu Aug  2 22:04:51 2012 UTC.  The chair is iulian. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[22:04] <meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
[22:05] <s-fox> i count 3 iulian  ;)
[22:05] <iulian> We're 4, aren't we?
[22:05] <s-fox> oh never mind. it is late here. i am tired ;)
[22:05] <s-fox> /ignore me
[22:06] <iulian> OK, I forgive you this time.
[22:06] <s-fox> :)
[22:06]  * s-fox gives iulian  a cookie :)
[22:06] <iulian> Wait, it's late here as well. :)
[22:06] <iulian> OK, enough chatting.
[22:06] <iulian> Hello and welcome to the Ubuntu Membership Review Board. The wiki page for the Review Board is available here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/Boards.
[22:06] <Fitoschido> hi all!
[22:06] <iulian> The format for the meeting is as follows: We will go through the list of applicants one by one, by date of application (FIFO).
[22:06] <s9iper1> hello
[22:07] <iulian> Each applicant should introduce themselves (1-5 sentences) and provide links to their Ubuntu Wiki page. After the introduction the members of the Membership Review Board will review the pages and, if needed, ask the applicant further questions.
[22:07] <iulian> During this time it is encouraged for other members of the community to show their support for the applicant. Do not be alarmed if the members of the Membership Review Board are quiet during this time; they are most likely reading wiki/launchpad/forum/other pages and deciding how they are going to vote
[22:08] <iulian> s9iper1: You're the first one on the list. Fire away!
[22:08] <s9iper1> ok thank s
[22:08] <s9iper1> Hello  every body!
[22:08] <s9iper1> This is bilal shahid Irc nickname S9iper1.i am an Information Technology student :).Here is my launchpad id link https://launchpad.net/~s9iper1
[22:08] <s9iper1> and here is my wiki page link
[22:09] <s9iper1> https://wiki.edubuntu.org/BilalShahid
[22:09] <s9iper1>  and further i and my friends arranged a precise release party here here are some pictures of them
[22:09] <s9iper1> http://s9iper1.blogspot.com/2012/05/blog-post_9007.html
[22:09] <s9iper1> http://s9iper1.blogspot.com/2012/05/blog-post_14.html
[22:11] <beuno> I get a 503
[22:11] <beuno> ah, there you go
[22:12] <beuno> nice
[22:12] <iulian> Questions?
[22:12] <iulian> micahg, s-fox, beuno?
[22:13] <s-fox> s9iper1,  do you have any plans for next  6 months with ubuntu  involvement ?
[22:13] <s9iper1> yes of course i mostly spend my free time with bugs and ubuntu
[22:14] <iulian> s9iper1: Are you going to focus just on triaging bugs?
[22:14] <s9iper1> no i am also working on php web development these days
[22:15] <iulian> I mean, within Ubuntu.
[22:15] <s9iper1> ok  for that i will focus on python
[22:16] <s9iper1> and kenvandine is also helping me for that
[22:17] <s9iper1> next my aim will be involve in bazar branches
[22:17] <iulian> OK, so that would be going towards MOTU perhaps?
[22:17] <s9iper1> yeah
[22:18] <iulian> Great, thanks s9iper1.
[22:18] <s-fox> i don't have any more questions
[22:18] <iulian> No more questions from me.
[22:18] <s9iper1> ok
[22:18] <iulian> #voters micahg s-fox beuno iulian
[22:18] <meetingology> Current voters: beuno iulian micahg s-fox
[22:18] <s-fox> +1
[22:18] <iulian> #vote Grant s9iper1 Ubuntu membership
[22:18] <meetingology> Please vote on: Grant s9iper1 Ubuntu membership
[22:18] <meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
[22:18] <beuno> +1
[22:18] <meetingology> +1 received from beuno
[22:18] <s-fox> +1
[22:18] <meetingology> +1 received from s-fox
[22:19] <micahg> +1 bug triage is very important and we need more people helping with this
[22:19] <meetingology> +1 bug triage is very important and we need more people helping with this received from micahg
[22:19] <iulian> +1 Keep up the good work.
[22:19] <meetingology> +1 Keep up the good work. received from iulian
[22:19] <iulian> #endvote
[22:19] <meetingology> Voting ended on: Grant s9iper1 Ubuntu membership
[22:19] <meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
[22:19] <meetingology> Motion carried
[22:19] <iulian> s9iper1: Congratulations.
[22:19] <s-fox> Congrats :)
[22:19] <s9iper1> thanks  all of you
[22:19] <micahg> thanks for all your hard work s9iper1 and please keep it up :)
[22:19] <s-fox> thank  you for your efforts
[22:19] <iulian> Fitoschido: Hello there. Could you please introduce yourself?
[22:20] <Fitoschido> Hi, I'm Adolfo Jayme Barrientos, a Ubuntu Spanish Translator since 2010
[22:20] <Fitoschido> I also contribute to other free software project such as Xfce and The Document Foundation but I spend the most of my free time in Ubuntu. It's a very welcoming project for me
[22:20] <iulian> Nice to hear that.
[22:21] <Fitoschido> I've also participated in Ubuntu Mexico meetings last year, and gave a quick course via IRC on translating Ubuntu to other new Ubuntu users wishing to contribute to the project
[22:21] <Fitoschido> Even when I'm primarily involved in l10n, I'm also a Bug Squad member. I have a few Bazaar branches, but I'm (still) not a coder. I'm still learning ;-)
[22:21] <Fitoschido> Launchpad: http://pad.lv/~fitoschido
[22:21] <Fitoschido> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Fitoschido
[22:22] <micahg> Fitoschido: is there a reason you were only able to get one testimonial?
[22:23] <Fitoschido> I haven't asked other people to do that for me, I guess.
[22:25] <beuno> Fitoschido, so, tell us a bit more about what you do
[22:25] <beuno> your wiki page is a bit thin on details
[22:26] <Fitoschido> Well, as I already said, I'm a translator. Primarily to Spanish, and a bit of Catalan.
[22:26] <beuno> Fitoschido, so how often do you translate?  any particualr focuses?
[22:27] <Fitoschido> I translate every week. I focus on GNOME, but I've also contributed to LibreOffice and Xfce
[22:27] <Fitoschido> I've recentrly translated many Ubuntu App Showdown apps as well
[22:28] <Fitoschido> This is my recent activity: https://translations.launchpad.net/~fitoschido/+activity
[22:28] <beuno> cool
[22:29] <iulian> Any more questions for Fitoschido?
[22:29] <beuno> Fitoschido, how long have you been translating?
[22:30] <s-fox> i have no more questions
[22:30] <Fitoschido> My first Launchpad contribution was in 2010-09-26
[22:30] <Fitoschido> before that I translated some Windows software, but that does not count ;-P
[22:31] <Fitoschido> I'm an Ubuntu user since 9.04
[22:31] <Fitoschido> and became addicted :)
[22:31] <iulian> Fitoschido: OK, thanks for the information.
[22:31] <iulian> #vote Grant Fitoschido Ubuntu membership
[22:31] <meetingology> Please vote on: Grant Fitoschido Ubuntu membership
[22:31] <meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
[22:31] <s-fox> +1
[22:31] <meetingology> +1 received from s-fox
[22:31] <iulian> +1
[22:31] <meetingology> +1 received from iulian
[22:31] <beuno> +1
[22:31] <meetingology> +1 received from beuno
[22:32] <micahg> +1
[22:32] <meetingology> +1 received from micahg
[22:32] <iulian> #endvote
[22:32] <meetingology> Voting ended on: Grant Fitoschido Ubuntu membership
[22:32] <meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
[22:32] <meetingology> Motion carried
[22:32] <iulian> Fitoschido: Welcome aboard!
[22:32] <s-fox> congratulations Fitoschido
[22:32] <Fitoschido> Thanks a lot dudes! :)
[22:32] <iulian> Is xander21c here?
[22:32] <s-fox> JoseAntonioR are you here?
[22:32] <JoseAntonioR> I'm here, on his behalf
[22:33] <s-fox> why?
[22:33] <JoseAntonioR> Let me explain
[22:33] <beuno> JoseAntonioR, so, that won't work
[22:33] <JoseAntonioR> beuno: one sec
[22:33] <JoseAntonioR> Well, xander21c membership expired a few days ago, and he would like to get it back up, the problem is he won't be able to attend any meetings until he's back home (on a trip right now)
[22:33] <JoseAntonioR> So, this is basically a request to get membership back-up
[22:34] <beuno> JoseAntonioR, yeah, that's not a problem
[22:34] <beuno> no need to come to a meeting
[22:34] <beuno> what's his launchpad id?
[22:34] <JoseAntonioR> xander21c
[22:34] <iulian> https://launchpad.net/~xander21c
[22:34] <beuno> JoseAntonioR, ok, I'll get that sorted out for you now
[22:34] <iulian> That's fine then. We'll reactive it now.
[22:35] <JoseAntonioR> thanks, guys!
[22:35] <iulian> reactivate even.
[22:35] <iulian> Thanks!
[22:36] <iulian> s-fox: You can go to bed now. :)
[22:36] <iulian> #endmeeting
[22:36] <meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Aug  2 22:36:12 2012 UTC.
[22:36] <meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-08-02-22.04.moin.txt
[22:36] <meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-08-02-22.04.html
[22:37] <s-fox> bye
[22:37] <Fitoschido> bye! and thanks!
[22:37] <s9iper1> good bye and thanks all !!
[22:38] <JoseAntonioR> congrats, Fitoschido
[22:39] <Fitoschido> JoseAntonioR: thanks! I'm very excited


[03:20] <snap-l> Good God, I'm at the 2/3rds mark for Lococast, and it's 52 minutes in.
[10:55] <snap-l> good morning
[11:14] <rick_h_> 258157
[11:15] <rick_h_> bah, morning
[11:20] <snap-l> rick_h_: Episode edits winging their way to you.
[11:27] <rick_h_> snap-l: woot! thanks
[11:38] <rick_h_> phew, 50% off oreilly books for anti drm day and I'm out of things to buy yay!
[11:43] <brousch> oooooh 50% off all o'reilly books
[12:21] <snap-l> God bless identi.ca: http://identi.ca/conversation/93003333#notice-93344921
[12:24] <brousch> omgwtfbbq
[12:24] <brousch> i am caught up on podcasts
[12:24] <snap-l> brousch: I think your podcatcher is broken
[12:25] <brousch> i started skipping podcasts with topics i don't care about
[12:25] <snap-l> brousch: Ah, there's a plan
[12:25] <brousch> and many of them have died. no python or django podcasts any more
[13:07] <shakes808> Morning all
[13:07] <rick_h_> party
[13:07] <brousch> on
[13:08] <rick_h_> TGIF
[13:10] <shakes808> It's FRIDAY BITCHES!
[13:16] <snap-l> virtual machines are awesome.
[13:16] <snap-l> That is all
[13:17] <rick_h_> hah
[13:21] <snap-l> http://analogindustries.bandcamp.com/
[13:33] <snap-l> http://www.dicecreator.com/qr-code-dice-cease-desist/ <- Ass clown of the day
[13:34] <snap-l> http://codigocube.com/ <- Dumbass game that has the patent-pending QR code cube.
[13:40] <brousch> why would you want qrcodes on dice?
[13:40] <brousch> the only way you could read them is with a phone
[13:40] <snap-l> Yes
[13:40] <brousch> this seems annoying and illogical
[13:41] <snap-l> And it's so NOVEL of an idea that NOBODY would EVERY think of it
[13:41] <snap-l> Difference is dicecreator.com actually made a shipping product
[13:41] <brousch> i'm going to put qrcodes around a spinner and make a fortune!
[13:41] <snap-l> That patent is stupid
[13:42] <shakes808> interesting video on the bottom of the page
[13:42] <shakes808> lol
[13:44] <brousch> snap-l: this is hurting my head
[13:44] <snap-l> Even better, it's a pending pattent application
[13:44] <snap-l> It's the equivalent of someone asking where their desk is because they filled out an employment application
[13:45] <brousch> plays best on iphone but the video's file name is .wmv
[13:45] <shakes808> lol
[14:40] <brousch> i assume you all are going to see Wierd Al at the Fox Theater on Saturday
[14:41] <brousch> the Michigan Garrison of the 501st Storm Troopers Legion will be there
[14:41] <ColonelPanic001> \o/
[14:48] <snap-l> Live music from the DSO on WRCJ
[14:49] <snap-l> brousch: Having to give it a pass unfortunately
[14:49] <snap-l> Dad-in-law's b-day on Saturday.
[14:49] <snap-l> (btw: that wrcj stuff is going on now)
[14:49] <snap-l> http://wrcjfm.org/index.php/listen-live
[14:53] <brousch> take him to the concert. everyone loves weird al
[14:58] <shakes808> :( I wsh I could go
[14:58] <snap-l> Wow, just got my first #ff on twitter.
[14:59] <shakes808> Tickets are too expensive and already have things going on this weekend :(
[14:59] <brousch> lameoid
[14:59] <shakes808> snap-l: ? What is #ff?
[14:59] <brousch> ColonelPanic001 is the only non-lameoid
[14:59] <snap-l> Follow Friday
[15:00] <rick_h_> snap-l: nice
[15:00] <ColonelPanic001> \o/
[15:00] <snap-l> @msrcast
[15:00] <shakes808> My girl and I might be going to this concert later on this year :D http://www.ticketmaster.com/Rockstar-Energy-Drink-Mayhem-Festival-tickets/artist/1423692
[15:01] <snap-l> shakes808: awesomesauce
[15:01] <shakes808> lol
[15:01] <shakes808> I just hope Slipknot is still AMAZING live
[15:02] <shakes808> I seen them YEARS ago and they were one of the best performances I have seen in a long time
[15:02] <snap-l> shakes808: I'm sure they are, even without Paul Gray
[15:03] <snap-l> for some reason, I thought Clown passed on, but I"m mistaken
[15:03] <krondor> In a 32-bit world, you're a 2-bit user.  You've got your own newsgroup alt.total-loser : love me some Weird Al!
[15:03] <greg-g> lol at ticketmaster: category = "alternative rock"
[15:03] <krondor> though that song is now showing its age
[15:04] <snap-l> krondor: I have a feeling it's not hard to update
[15:04] <shakes808> greg-g: lol
[15:04] <snap-l> same number of syllables.
[15:05]  * greg-g lives in a 128-bit world
[15:05]  * snap-l wishes he had two-bits to rub together.
[15:05] <brousch> krondor: i have a weird al pentiums t-shirt from when i saw him way back in 2000
[15:06] <greg-g> I assume everyone has seen this, right? http://shop.oreilly.com/category/deals/day-against-drm.do
[15:06] <greg-g> brousch: nice!
[15:06] <brousch> it still loks decent even though i wear it once a month
[15:06] <snap-l> greg-g: Seen it, and pillaged it.
[15:07] <shakes808> Do you get the MUG discount on top of that?
[15:07] <shakes808> :D
[15:08] <snap-l> shakes808: Pretty sure you only get to use one at a time
[15:08] <shakes808> snap-l: :*(
[15:08] <shakes808> ok
[15:08] <shakes808> lo
[15:08] <shakes808> l
[15:08] <snap-l> but if you want to use the mug discount in lieu of the DRMFREE discount, be my guest.
[15:09] <greg-g> what is the MUG discount?
[15:09] <greg-g> I mean, how much?
[15:09] <snap-l> 35%
[15:09] <greg-g> cool
[15:09] <snap-l> (Actually, it might be more than that, now that I think of it)
[15:10] <shakes808> would like to get the 85% off ;)
[15:10] <brousch> snap-l: i think ours is 40% of print books and 50% off ebook. code DSUG
[15:10] <snap-l> brousch: Yeah, OK
[15:10] <brousch> looks like a generic code
[15:11] <snap-l> We got the DSUG2, which is buy-one, get one free
[15:11] <snap-l> but DSUG is pretty much a known quantity
[15:11] <brousch> you're right, i have both of those
[15:11] <brousch> also have 36% off manning if anyone cares
[15:12] <shakes808> Man, the discounts are flying out of control ;)
[15:13] <brousch> heh
[15:13] <brousch> they give the same discounts to any user group
[15:14] <greg-g> ok, I'm sorry, but this is just quirky, The book "The Art of Photography: An Approach to Personal Expression" is available in DAISY format (DAISY is the format for blind readers)
[15:15] <brousch> heh
[15:15] <greg-g> "With well over 100 beautiful photographic illustrations in both black-and-white and color, as well as numerous charts, graphs, and tables, this book..."
[15:16] <greg-g> ... is worthless in the DAISY format
[15:16] <snap-l> You never know. :)
[15:16] <snap-l> http://blog.blindphotographers.org/
[15:16] <greg-g> I mean, granted, DAISY support sophisticated descriptions of images (think alt-text)
[15:17] <greg-g> snap-l: you have silenced me.
[15:22] <greg-g> sometimes, rescheduling a task's due date (to tomorrow/next week) feels productive in and of itself
[15:23] <snap-l> Not all "blind" folks have lost all of their sight
[15:23] <greg-g> snap-l: right, same kind of terminology with deaf (though, they usually say "deaf and hard of hearing")
[15:24]  * greg-g dated an ASL interpreter for 4 years
[15:24] <snap-l> Yeah, absolutes aren't the norm.
[15:25]  * greg-g nods
[17:23] <brousch> awesome http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2012/05/04/the-heartland-institute-sinks-to-a-new-low/
[17:34] <greg-g> grrr, dislike my phone, always running out of "memory"
[17:39] <brousch> storage or ram?
[17:42] <greg-g> internal storage
[17:43] <greg-g> hence the quotes around "memory" (I hate when systems use words either incorrectly or vaguely, TELL ME WHAT IS WRONG SO I CAN FIX IT!
[17:43] <brousch> i had that on my old droid. can you move apps to SD?
[17:44] <greg-g> a combination of small internal storage (2 gig, I believe) and crappy Virgin Mobile apps I can't uninstall/move to SD card
[17:44] <greg-g> moved all I can :/
[17:44] <brousch> ouch
[17:44] <brousch> switch to the mobile web version to replace some of the apps
[17:44] <brousch> like FB
[17:44] <greg-g> but, there's also the other apps I've installed that don't allow moving. New rule: apps must allow moving.
[17:44] <greg-g> hahhahahahahahahahaa
[17:44] <greg-g> you think I have FB installed.
[17:45] <brousch> i assumed virgin installed it for you
[17:45] <brousch> along with ESPN Preview and Blockbuster
[17:46] <greg-g> :)
[17:46] <greg-g> also, how can you switch to the mobile web version if you can't uninstall the app?
[17:48] <brousch> hm, a good point
[17:49] <greg-g> at least with a new Windows computer you can uninstall the stupid adware crap Dell installs.
[17:50] <brousch> greg-g: shouldn't you be out marching with the other freetards? http://www.fsf.org/news/coalition-against-digital-restrictions-management-ready-to-go-for-may-4th-day-against-drm
[17:50] <greg-g> brousch: I already did my march, I'm on the 7-9am shift
[17:50] <brousch> heh
[17:51] <brousch> greg-g: are you using the optimus on virgin? i almost went that route
[17:51] <greg-g> yeah
[17:52] <greg-g> cheap, decent coverage (not in Montana/Wyoming, but oh well), Android. done.
[17:55] <brousch> well not quite done if you keep running out of space
[17:55] <snap-l> greg-g: Check out ting.com
[17:56] <snap-l> I'm still in the honeymoon phase, but liking it so far.
[17:56] <greg-g> snap-l: yeah, did the math, I would save like $2-3/mo, not worth the switch yet
[17:56] <greg-g> but, totally my next jump
[17:57] <greg-g> brousch: good point ;)
[17:58] <snap-l> OK, who is the idiot who decided to distribute java code in a .exe file?
[17:58] <brousch> i was concerned about coverage (especially around fremont) and the speed of the phone. space never entered my thoughts
[18:00] <shakes808> snap-l: Wednesday at the CHC, I got the enemy sprites to show up and it seems to run a lot better on a Linux distro than it did on the Windows. Here is the link to the source: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/13889126/Python/FINAL222.tar.gz
[18:01] <shakes808> rick_h_: *COUGH* spaces ;)
[18:05] <snap-l> shakes808: Cool. Will check it out either this weekend, or next
[18:06] <shakes808> sounds good
[18:06] <shakes808> I am going to be going through it at some point and see if I can clean up the code.
[18:06] <shakes808> It will be something some what familiar to me and get me used to working within VI
[18:11] <shakes808> going to go through the videos that rick_h_ put together and seee what I can do :D
[18:20] <brousch> ah crap crap crap. tedxgrandrapids in on thursday and i haven't made any business cards for my groups
[18:21] <snap-l> Ugh, Beastie Boy rapper MCA passed away.
[18:22] <brousch> a day of mourning
[18:23] <shakes808> :'(
[18:26] <rick_h_> not to be a bad guy...but man that's one band I can do without ever hearing again
[18:26] <snap-l> understandable
[18:27] <snap-l> We've already established that you hate music. ;)
[18:27]  * snap-l starts making rick_h_ a mixtape
[18:31]  * widox cranks up some Beasie Boys
[18:40] <brousch> beastie boys rock
[18:42] <shakes808> older BB were good. The new stuff was just mediocre
[18:44] <shakes808> Back with Paul Revere and Brass Monkey and Boomin' Granny and Girls
[18:44] <shakes808> lol
[18:45] <shakes808> Pretty much the whole License to Ill album
[18:50] <brousch> I'LL STIR FRY YOU IN MY WOK
[18:52] <shakes808> Like a pinch on the neck of Mr. SPOCK
[19:05] <snap-l> I like Paul's boutique and Check Your Head
[19:05] <snap-l> haven't listened to anything since, though
[19:05] <snap-l> save for Intergalactic Planetary
[19:06] <shakes808> in luei of MCA's death, Beastie Boys Pandora radio station is created..... Insane in the membrain. INSANE IN THE BRAIN
[19:06] <shakes808> lol
[19:07] <snap-l> shakes808: Please turn in your internet connection. You're no longer welcome. ;)
[19:07] <shakes808> lol
[19:08] <shakes808> I don't have the music box do hickey
[19:08] <shakes808> ;D
[20:08] <greg-g> man I hate having to rewrite documents
[20:08] <greg-g> especially when the first one had all the necessary politicing/schmoozing language that is so hard to write
[20:08] <greg-g> (as in, I think it didn't save to U1 from work, so I don't have it here)
[20:12] <snap-l> Oh, that sucks
[20:12] <snap-l> no remote access to the machine that might have it?
[20:13] <greg-g> nope, I even shut it down (I bring home the power cord for ease of coffee shop goings and I took the battery home to see if it would work on my x200s, it did not)
[20:16] <brousch> dropbox ftw
[20:17] <greg-g> yeah, I saved it in U1, like all work docs
[20:17] <greg-g> or so I thought
[20:17] <greg-g> that's the weird part
[20:18] <greg-g> checked the web interface, not there
[20:36] <snap-l> greg-g: U1 can be a PITA if it doesn't actually sync
[20:37] <snap-l> have had several instances where it got into a syncing loop
[20:50] <nullspace> yawn
[20:58] <brousch> anyone read these? http://pragprog.com/titles
[20:59] <snap-l> brousch: They're a good publisher for more tutorial-based books
[20:59] <rick_h_> brousch: which ones?
[20:59] <rick_h_> I've read several of them
[21:07] <shakes808> have a good weekend all