[02:43] <EricNeon> morning all~
[04:18] <jsgotangco> helllo
[04:23] <Eric|UbuntuDoc> hi
[04:25] <Eric|UbuntuDoc> I'm translating Hoary StarterGuide into Chinese
[04:26] <jsgotangco> wooo
[04:26] <jsgotangco> through Rosetta?
[04:30] <Eric|UbuntuDoc> Rosetta
[04:30] <Eric|UbuntuDoc> noI do it in ours Wiki
[04:30] <Eric|UbuntuDoc> http://wiki.ubuntu.org.cn/index.php/Hoarystarterguide/document_view
[07:28] <jsgotangco> baahh i forgot the admin of my router
[07:28] <jsgotangco> bbl
[07:47] <froud> African Greetings
[07:48] <Burgundavia> salut
[07:48] <Burgundavia> I have a question about repos that you may be able to answer
[07:48] <froud> sure
[07:48] <froud> just running the merge into my WC
[07:49] <Burgundavia> http://people.debian.org/~isaac/wesnoth/
[07:49] <Burgundavia> how would I add this to my sources.list ?
[07:49] <froud> you can do it via synaptic or at the prompt
[07:49] <froud> etc/apt/sources.list
[07:50] <froud> I think that's the encantation
[07:50] <Burgundavia> I realize taht
[07:50] <Burgundavia> but the issue is taht packages.gz is note in a dir
[07:50] <Burgundavia> ie ~/dists/hoary/main
[07:51] <froud> Hmm, not sure but you just leave out the main
[07:52] <Burgundavia> I tried only 'deb blah'
[07:52] <Burgundavia> but it didn't work
[07:52] <Burgundavia> and then I tried 'deb blah .' and that didn't work
[07:52] <froud> not sure what about . (dot)
[07:54] <Burgundavia> hmm
[07:56] <froud> well did that work
[07:58] <jsgotangco> hallooooeee
[07:59] <Burgundavia> salut
[08:05] <jsgotangco> ohh that's nice i think someone has messed up some wiki pages again *groan*
[08:07] <jsgotangco> im beginning to truly hate our wiki
[08:07] <Burgundavia> I already decided I hated our wiki
[08:07] <Burgundavia> and have left well enough alone
[08:07] <jsgotangco> yes we hateses it even more now
[08:08] <jsgotangco> is there hope?
[08:08] <Burgundavia> there is always hope my son
[08:08] <Burgundavia> went to my lug today
[08:08] <Burgundavia> listened to one of the terrasoft guys talk
[08:08] <Burgundavia> terrasoft = yellow dog
[08:09] <jsgotangco> yah so how was it
[08:09] <Burgundavia> pretty good
[08:09] <Burgundavia> discussed how ppc port got started
[08:09] <Burgundavia> where the future is
[08:10] <jsgotangco> do they support genesi pegasos boards?
[08:10] <Burgundavia> they say that genesi pegasos boards are borked
[08:11] <Burgundavia> hmm beagled goes boom
[08:11] <jsgotangco> oohhhh
[08:11] <Burgundavia> 3 times, at the same point, so I filed a bug
[08:12] <jsgotangco> you using beagle now?
[08:12] <Burgundavia> yep
[08:12] <Burgundavia> is very nice
[08:12] <Burgundavia> and gtk
how fast is it compared to KDE apps></troll>
[08:48] <jsgotangco> hmmm lots of commits
[08:49] <Burgundavia> hmm, still annoyed
[08:49] <jsgotangco> oh what?
[08:54] <jsgotangco> froud: are you starting to merge into trunk? i've svn up and seeing new folders
[09:19] <froud> jsgotangco: yes, I am merging. Just trying to check things
[09:23] <froud> [announce]  the restructur branch has been successfully merged back to trunk. everyone can svn up
[09:31] <jsgotangco> hmm thats a lot of stuff merged
[09:32] <froud> jsgotangco: yes that is why it was in a branch
[09:32] <froud> please do test things, let me know if you think there should be changes
[09:32] <jsgotangco> so there is no branch anymore?
[09:33] <froud> the branch will be depreciated
[09:33] <jsgotangco> did you merge docs for ubuntu and kubuntu?
[09:39] <froud> take a look at the trunk, you will see generic, gnome and kde
[09:40] <jsgotangco> yes my guess is that the kde stuff is actually for kubuntu itself
[09:41] <froud> yes rather than refer to ubuntu or kubuntu I decided to go by the upstream
[09:42] <froud> this way if somebody wants another desktop distro based on ubuntu we can add it by its name
[09:43] <jsgotangco> but that means kubuntu will have a very different quick guide as well as other docs but ubuntu and kubuntu will share the other stuff like release notes and about ubuntu, etc.
[09:43] <froud> no the only shared stuff is in generic
[09:43] <jsgotangco> ahh
[09:44] <froud> this way kubuntu has its own docs and so does gnome
[09:44] <froud> but you still need the whole of trunk to validate
[09:48] <jsgotangco> the kde stuff needs a lot of work i noticed
[09:49] <froud> jsgotangco: its the first time we have kde, so it is to be expected. More fun for you and nay other KDE users :-)
[09:53] <jsgotangco> this is fun? lol..hehehehe
[09:57] <jsgotangco> froud: how does trunk fit in with Rosetta now running?
[09:57] <froud> it has support for the languages
[09:58] <jsgotangco> trunk just focuses on core documentation now?
[09:58] <froud> Huh? dont understand
[09:58] <jsgotangco> translated stuff from Rosetta get merged in trunk soon?
[09:59] <froud> we focus on anything that is C
[09:59] <froud> translations are already trunk
[09:59] <jsgotangco> i mean how about future stuff that will be done in Rosetta
[09:59] <froud> yes we give pot they give -nn.po
[10:00] <froud> we make -nn.xml
[10:00] <jsgotangco> -nn.po is done by Rosetta right
[10:03] <froud> yes the translators take our pot and make a po file in which they write the translation
[10:03] <froud> you already know all this
[10:04] <jsgotangco> yes im just clarifying how rosetta affects trunk
[10:04] <froud> it does not, we just make language support easier for final packaging
[10:05] <froud> the i18n process remains the same
[10:19] <froud> ooops kde inst should be kubuntuadminguide
[10:21] <froud> anyone want something to do, they can fix the fileref values in gnome and kde
[10:22] <jsgotangco> no habla espanol
[10:22] <jsgotangco> but i will check what that means
[10:25] <froud> kde/inst now renamed
[10:25] <froud> jsgotangco: where you have imagedata in the documents you have fileref attributes
[10:26] <froud> due to the change in directories the value for each fileref is now wrong and should be corrected
[10:27] <jsgotangco> <imagedata fileref="figures/update.png" format="PNG"/>
[10:27] <froud> exactly
[10:28] <jsgotangco> ok so that means revalidate these files as well
[10:28] <froud> the files are all valid, or should be
[10:28] <froud> I did a validation
[10:28] <froud> but validation will not know if images have moved
[10:29] <jsgotangco> ok does konqueror render xml like what yelp does?
[10:30] <froud> no, but you can still have yelp installed
[10:34] <jsgotangco> froud, changing the filerefs should be easy, but what should the correct values be?
[10:34] <froud> which book are you on
[10:35] <jsgotangco> they dont open in yelp at all
[10:35] <jsgotangco> im looking at kynaptic.xml
[10:35] <froud> kynaptic is a special case :-)
[10:35] <jsgotangco> ok i go to something much more basic
[10:35] <froud> figures/ are relative to the doc
[10:36] <froud> since kynaptic may move upstream one day
[10:36] <jsgotangco> ok ill just try messing up with gnome docs first to see how its done
[10:37] <froud> logically you will need ../../images/C/foo.png
[10:45] <jsgotangco> are you changing stuff agian?
[10:51] <jsgotangco> froud, do you have any idea why svn up is taking so long
[10:52] <froud> just changed one thing in kde
[10:52] <froud> no idea why it takes so long
[10:52] <froud> seems fine my side
[10:53] <jsgotangco> ok
[11:03] <Eric|UbuntuDoc> the Chinese Hoary StarterGuide had nearly achieve
[11:03] <Burgundavia> hmm?
[11:03] <froud> Eric|UbuntuDoc: achieve .... what we don't understand
[11:04] <jgotangco> he means its almost done
[11:04] <Eric|UbuntuDoc> o ,~hah
[11:04] <Eric|UbuntuDoc> yes ,done
[11:04] <Eric|UbuntuDoc> http://wiki.ubuntu.org.cn/index.php/Hoarystarterguide/document_view
[11:05] <jsgotangco> wow thats wikimedia
[11:06] <Eric|UbuntuDoc> yes
[11:06] <froud> Eric|UbuntuDoc: that's nice but I really wish people would translate the one in svn :-)
[11:07] <jsgotangco> yeah having cn/zh in trunk would be great
[11:07] <froud> problem is it is not easy to port all these wiki formats to docbook
[11:08] <froud> and now with new release schedule all these wiki books will not be part of our i18n process
[11:08] <Eric|UbuntuDoc> We will do it
[11:08] <Eric|UbuntuDoc> but now ,we have not server for svn
[11:08] <jsgotangco> froud, i think the wiki can just stay as it is, but it should have a good flow of info that complements our docbook work
[11:08] <jsgotangco> Eric|UbuntuDoc, just use OUR svn
[11:08] <froud> Eric|UbuntuDoc: yes we have svn for this
[11:09] <froud> we ported english version to docbook
[11:09] <froud> and put it in svn see https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/DocteamProjects
[11:09] <jsgotangco> even Rosetta has some Chinese translations already
[11:10] <froud> jsgotangco: of what?
[11:10] <Eric|UbuntuDoc> oh?  cool!
[11:11] <jsgotangco> well in Hoary there are some completed already
[11:11] <jsgotangco> in Rosetta that is
[11:11] <froud> jsgotangco: you dont make much sense, translations of what?
[11:12] <Eric|UbuntuDoc> I spend tow days to translete document
[11:12] <jsgotangco> froud, of applications
[11:12] <froud> if they are translations of our docs, stuff in svn, then we need the po files back
[11:12] <froud> if it is not our doc stuff then, personally, I am not insterested
[11:13] <froud> Eric|UbuntuDoc: yes it takes a great effort for translation
[11:13] <froud> Eric|UbuntuDoc: that is why I want to reduce the effort
[11:13] <Eric|UbuntuDoc> I add-on a line as "Copyleft (C) 2005 Ubuntu.org.cn" in Chinese Document  :)
[11:13] <jsgotangco> froud, i refer to Hoary apps in https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/distros/ubuntu/hoary/+translations which Eric|UbuntuDoc might be intrested in
[11:13] <froud> we use POT/PO files for translations under Rosetta
[11:14] <froud> jsgotangco: ok
[11:14] <jsgotangco> froud, do our docs get into Rosetta?
[11:14] <Burgundavia> therea are some possible issues with the size of strings we have
[11:14] <froud> jsgotangco: yes, currently via way of our package
[11:14] <jsgotangco> ok great
[11:15] <froud> Burgundavia: what issues?
[11:15] <Burgundavia> I had heard that rosetta was borking on large strings. I could be wrong
[11:15] <froud> Burgundavia: to be expected, it is still a young app
[11:16] <jsgotangco> at least its running now
[11:21] <jsgotangco> hmm rosetta's PO file export ain't bad either
[11:23] <EricNeon> jsgotangco, you can find a Chinese translater named Carlos Liu in https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/distros/ubuntu/hoary/+translations
[11:23] <EricNeon> he is just a member of Ubuntu-zh team
[11:25] <jsgotangco> yes
[11:25] <jsgotangco> i see
[11:26] <jsgotangco> hmm this is neat..i made a new wc from cli and esvn recognized the new wc when i opened it
[11:28] <jsgotangco> very handy indeed
[11:28] <EricNeon> :-)
[11:39] <jsgotangco> _froud, what is i18n.sh for
[11:40] <_froud> It manages the i18n things
[11:40] <_froud> should work, but needs testing
[11:40] <_froud> not all the scripts work as yet
[11:40] <_froud> that one should
[11:44] <jsgotangco> hmm fileref from gnome also needs work
[11:44] <froud> what are you talking about
[11:44] <froud> the images
[11:45] <jsgotangco> yes
[11:45] <froud> ya, but we said so already :-)
[11:46] <jsgotangco> ok forgive me for repeating unnecessarily
[12:09] <jsgotangco> ok ilm having dinner first
[12:09] <jsgotangco> bye bye
[12:09] <froud> c ya
[12:10] <EricNeon> bye
[12:10] <EricNeon> I have to go home
[12:10] <froud> EricNeon: OK c ya later
[12:12] <EricNeon> maybe c ya tomorrow
[12:12] <froud> cool
[04:28] <jsgotangco> tadaa
[04:36] <froud> jsgotangco: are you then doing the fileref fixes?
[04:37] <jsgotangco> i've already done some
[04:37] <jsgotangco> ill just commit them later
[04:37] <froud> ok do it on a per doc basis
[04:37] <froud> thx
[04:37] <jsgotangco> yeah im doing it per doc
[04:57] <jsgotangco> bbl
[05:43] <mvirkkil> WOW! http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/WhyYouShouldntUseUbuntu
[05:43] <mvirkkil> And a link to that on the front page
[05:43] <mvirkkil> It has been there for 10 minutes
[05:45] <mvirkkil> Someone should fix that asap and block the senders IP
[06:47] <mdke> omg that is pretty harsh
[07:14] <froud> http://mpt.net.nz/archive/2005/04/11/ubuntu
[07:21] <mdke> hi froud
[07:21] <mdke> by a canonical employee ;)
[07:47] <jeffsch> greetings
[07:48] <jeffsch> I read the matt thomas blog. he makes some good points on the help system.
[07:48] <froud> jjesse: drop the url
[07:49] <froud> mdke: hi
[07:49] <mdke> froud, its that one you posted
[07:50] <jeffsch> froud: do you mean jeffsch?
[07:50] <froud> oh right I did not read who wrote it
[07:50] <froud> I think that the critique is good
[07:50] <froud> good to get critique
[07:51] <froud> gives you a chance to reflect and make improvements
[07:51] <mdke> yeah
[07:51] <jeffsch> yes. it's always good to hear from someone outside the docteam
[07:51] <mdke> but a lot of the faults are due to lack of time
[07:51] <mdke> especially the lack of a userguide
[07:51] <jeffsch> we are still a small team
[07:51] <mdke> hopefully we can improve by next release
[07:52] <froud> one of the great things about open source is that everything is open, even critique
[07:52] <froud> this is a great advantage
[07:52] <froud> I would have like http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/WhyYouShouldntUseUbuntu to stay up fo rthis reason
[07:52] <mdke> yeah cool that canonical let him post that
[07:53] <mdke> froud, no that violates the code of conduct imo
[07:53] <froud> well not really
[07:53] <froud> it gives breadth of perspective
[07:53] <jeffsch> i agree with froud. A short reasoned reply from shuttleworth below the screed would be nice
[07:53] <froud> a chance to see what another person thinks
[07:53] <mdke> it is not considerate of others and was unnecessarily aggressive
[07:54] <mdke> i am all for freedom of expression, its just how it was put that I found unnecessary
[07:54] <froud> but then that is open source
[07:54] <froud> anyway I am back to work

[08:04] <mdke> Man Pages. Teeheeheehee.

[08:04] <mdke> he has a point.
[08:06] <jeffsch> yes. some would think we need woman pages, just to be fair.
[08:06] <jeffsch> man pages are old stuff. they should be converted, yes?
[08:07] <mdke> well that sort of title is certainly confusing
[08:07] <froud> jeffsch: no they should not, what if you dont have a desktop? How you gonna read GNU command help
[08:08] <jeffsch> hmm... converted, but not deleted then?
[08:08] <mdke> froud, the point is that there is a "man pages" in the front page of our help dialogue, people who don't know what they are will be confused, and let's face it, those people are the only ones who don't use man pages in a terminal
[08:08] <mdke> at least that's how i interpret his point
[08:09] <froud> well there is an education to using Linux
[08:09] <froud> that's why we need user manual
[08:09] <mdke> yeah
[08:09] <mdke> froud, i wanted to ask you, is the structure of all the manuals sorted? all that is missing is the content?
[08:10] <froud> mdke: the merge ws done, so structure is set
[08:10] <froud> we may have small changes, but nothing like waht we had in branch
[08:11] <mdke> froud, i mean the structure of each document itself
[08:11] <froud> you mean outlines
[08:11] <froud> outlines are free to change
[08:12] <mdke> right
[08:12] <mdke> outlines yeah
[08:12] <mdke> froud, but the bare bones are there?
[08:12] <froud> in fact I say that everything is now open for eval
[08:12] <froud> some yes and some no
[08:12] <mdke> right
[08:12] <mdke> will we have meetings to sort out the outlines?
[08:12] <froud> the way I would tackle it is to pick a book that I intend working on
[08:13] <froud> think and think
[08:13] <froud> then propose on the list
[08:13] <froud> hack it in the list and then impliment the outline
[08:13] <mdke> cool
[08:13] <mdke> froud, also the other thing i wanted to ask is, its cool to use wiki pages for content, i'm thinking of the more stable ones
[08:13] <froud> once we have an outline agreed we should try stick to it as much possible
[08:14] <froud> wiki is one type of work svn is another
[08:14] <froud> we often take info from wiki to docbook
[08:14] <froud> I dont pay much attention to wiki
[08:14] <mdke> so its a good idea to take content
[08:14] <mdke> ?
[08:14] <froud> yeah why not, so long as you credit
[08:14] <mdke> there are some very good docs, written by good people imo
[08:15] <mdke> froud, difficult to tell who wrote the material
[08:15] <froud> sure
[08:15] <froud> also difficult to keep wiki and docbook in sync
[08:15] <froud> linke with Faq guide
[08:16] <mdke> froud, i was thinking that it would be one way, not synching: wiki -> us, improvement on our side, release
[08:16] <froud> that is what we have to do
[08:16] <froud> but we have to agree outlines and then go for it
[08:17] <froud> outline can change +-10% before final release
[08:17] <mdke> right
[08:17] <mdke> well i'm happier if they are already there ;) but I am also happy to think about them
[08:17] <froud> during work we have 1, 2, 3 draft
[08:18] <froud> mark nodes with status attribute
[08:18] <froud> authorblurb used for comments
[08:18] <mdke> yeah
[08:18] <mdke> i saw those
[08:18] <froud> different nodes can be at different status
[08:18] <mdke> i looked at esvn yesterday
[08:18] <froud> when all status = complete
[08:19] <froud> cool and what do you think
[08:19] <mdke> :|
[08:19] <mdke> not really for me
[08:19] <froud> imagine trying to do svn restructure without it
[08:19] <mdke> yeah probly
[08:19] <froud> well ther eyou go
[08:20] <froud> hey back to work
[08:20] <mdke> right ok see ya soon
[08:50] <froud> jeffsch: nice one on the images dude. thanks
[08:50] <jeffsch> np
[08:51] <froud> the docs will validated but that does not pickup the images problem caused by restructure :-)
[08:51] <jeffsch> froud: concerning the locations for the non english languages: do we keep C, or should we change to fr, ca, etc?
[08:51] <jeffsch> changing to fr, ca, etc will highlight that those screen shots are needed.
[08:52] <froud> jeffsch: we dont have the screenshots.
[08:52] <mdke> what?
[08:52] <froud> keep them as C just incase
[08:52] <mdke> you want them now?
[08:53] <froud> well we're waiting :-)
[08:53] <mdke> i'll start doing them in the next few days then
[08:53] <mdke> just everything that is already there right?
[08:53] <froud> Oh yes no more no less
[08:53] <mdke> i was thinking that we'd be waiting until breezy was up and running
[08:53] <froud> same file names
[08:53] <mdke> especially since the theme will be changing
[08:54] <froud> the theme change does not impact on the doc value
[08:54] <froud> if we have time we can do it
[08:54] <froud> but doing it now could save us time
[08:54] <jeffsch> it's good to have *something* there, just so we know what the thing looks like
[08:55] <froud> though I am not convinced we must have i18n screencapts
[08:55] <froud> but if people want then we will give
[08:55] <froud> jeffsch: until we have the images leave i18n
[08:56] <froud> oh yes, and jeffsch , claude was the other volunteer
[08:56] <froud> :-)
[08:56] <mdke> yeah ok
[08:56] <froud> mdke: if you do it keep the same file names
[08:56] <mdke> the other thing, is there no plan to make the things smaller?
[08:56] <mdke> froud, will do
[08:56] <jjesse> quick question: are we supposed to be working on what is in trunks or in the restructure section?
[08:57] <mdke> froud, they go in the same directory, with -xx ending on names, or in a different directory with same names
[08:57] <froud> jeffsch: restructure merged to trunk today
[08:57] <froud> mdke: no
[08:57] <mdke> froud, *points at jjesse*
[08:57] <froud> exactly the same file name
[08:57] <jjesse> so do my work in trunks?
[08:57] <mdke> froud, in the same final?
[08:57] <mdke> s/final/folder
[08:57] <mdke> images/
[08:57] <froud> no in the xx folder
[08:57] <jeffsch> froud: yes. I updated trunk, right? or did esvn play with my mind?
[08:57] <mdke> oh
[08:57] <froud> not the C folder
[08:57] <froud> jjesse: work in trunk
[08:57] <mdke> froud, ok didn't see those yet
[08:58] <jjesse> ok
[08:58] <mdke> froud, will do
[08:58] <froud> mdke: look at trunk and you will see the new structure
[08:58] <mdke> yep kewl
[08:58] <froud> i18n docs each have their own folder
[08:58] <jjesse> ok cool ive been using kubuntu so i'll start looking at the kde stuff
[08:58] <froud> kde stuff has next to noting
[08:59] <froud> jjesse: we can hash outlines
[08:59] <froud> in the list
[08:59] <froud> I am just capturing the installation screens
[09:00] <froud> we can use them for kde admin and user guide
[09:00] <jjesse> ok
[09:00] <froud> we may even be able to use them for gubuntu
[09:01] <mdke> /kick froud
[09:01] <froud> well I am off to bed. Must sleep, feel nackered, my eyes are starting to bleed
[09:01] <jeffsch> cya
[09:01] <mdke> night
[09:01] <froud> jjesse: I think only the first capt of the install will need changing between kubuntu and gubuntu
[09:01] <froud> ok chow
[09:02] <jjesse> ok
[09:02] <mdke> afk too
[09:20] <mkde> yo
[09:29] <mkde> damn
[09:29] <mkde> did froud say the images were to be put in gnome_or_kde/images/2lettercountrycode/ ?
[09:33] <jjesse> must have been before i was signed on
[09:33] <jjesse> don't remember
[09:35] <froud-away> if you r working on quickguide fr doc then put them in the quickguide/fr/ folder NOT quickguide/C/ :-)
[09:36] <mdke> so I make the relevant directories myself?
[09:37] <mdke> like images/fr
[09:37] <froud-away> yes there are no fr images so you need a directory
[09:37] <mdke> ok cool
[09:38] <froud-away> in images/
[09:38] <mdke> didn't want to create any directories until i was sure ;)
[09:38] <mdke> froud-away, thanks, and gd night
[09:38] <froud-away> busy installing linux under linux so had sometime
[09:41] <claude> my menus are not very standard
[09:41] <claude> do you know the new way to edit them ?
[09:45] <froud-away> they are defined in /etc/xdg/menus/
[09:45] <froud-away> you can edit there or via the menu editor on the desktop
[09:46] <claude> menu editor ?
[09:48] <froud-away> you in gnome or kde?
[09:48] <claude> seems /etc/xdg/menus doesn't relate to my real menus
[09:48] <claude> gnome of course !!
[09:48] <claude> ;-P
[09:48] <froud-away> ah that's your problem
[09:48] <froud-away> come to kde and you have a nice easy menu editor
[09:49] <froud-away> dunno how to do it in gnome?
[09:51] <claude> something to do with /usr/share/applications
[11:34] <mkde> ooh got my svn account i think
[11:34] <mkde> haven't a clue what it means tho


[16:04]  * slangasek waves
[16:04] <philroche> \o
[16:04] <slangasek> #startmeeting
[16:04] <meetingology> Meeting started Thu Jan  4 16:04:36 2018 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[16:04] <meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
[16:04] <rbalint> o/
[16:04] <slangasek> [TOPIC] Lightning round
[16:05] <slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e slangasek bdmurray xnox tdaitx doko sil2100 rbalint infinity cyphermox mwhudson rcj philroche Odd_Bloke tribaal fginther)
[16:05] <slangasek> bdmurray rcj Odd_Bloke sil2100 infinity tribaal cyphermox slangasek mwhudson doko xnox fginther tdaitx philroche rbalint
[16:05] <slangasek> bdmurray: hello
[16:05] <bdmurray> email catch up and review
[16:05] <bdmurray> SRU verified unattended-upgrades for Z, A (LP: #1269177)
[16:05] <bdmurray> pinged / discussed with SRU team about apport security regression (LP: #1733366)
[16:05] <bdmurray> uploaded fix for u-r-u Prompt=normal bionic bug (LP: #1740523)
[16:05] <bdmurray> tested LP: #1718497 - it's fine
[16:05] <bdmurray> modifications to apport to speed it up
[16:05] <bdmurray> arranged travel to sprint
[16:05] <bdmurray> ✔ done
[16:05] <bdmurray> rcj:
[16:05] <rcj> * vacation
[16:05] <rcj> * catch up from vacation
[16:05] <rcj> (done)
[16:06] <Odd_Bloke> * HIGHLIGHT: HAPPY NEW YEAR
[16:06] <Odd_Bloke> * Uhh...
[16:06] <Odd_Bloke> (done)
[16:06] <Odd_Bloke> tribaal:
[16:06] <tribaal> * Vagrant SRU changes for the xenial image under way! Waiting for verification.
[16:06] <tribaal> * Partner work.
[16:06] <tribaal> * Too much to eat, too much to drink, family time
[16:06] <tribaal> (done)
[16:07] <slangasek>  * happy new year
[16:07] <slangasek>  * looking at build failures in bionic (avahi, a couple others)
[16:07] <slangasek>  * tracking BIOS-breaking kernel issue
[16:07] <slangasek>  * discussions around nvidia packaging for GPU computing
[16:07] <slangasek>  * the embargo is broken and everything is on fire
[16:07] <slangasek> (done)
[16:07] <slangasek> doko:
[16:08] <doko> - prepared and started test rebuilds
[16:08] <doko> - now evaluating GCC and binutils regressions
[16:08] <doko> - some MIRs and NEW processing
[16:08] <doko> (done)
[16:08] <slangasek> xnox:
[16:08] <xnox> fixing migrations/tests => systemd migrated all by itself
[16:08] <xnox> working on s390-tools v2+ upgrade
[16:08] <xnox> libsecommp update released, thank you all
[16:08] <xnox> working on fixing s390x cloud-test-framework failures
[16:08] <xnox> catch up on systemd upstream work + discussions
[16:08] <xnox> (done)
[16:09] <slangasek> fginther:
[16:09] <fginther> * Image build system vanguard.
[16:09] <fginther> * Implementing some jenkins job cleanup.
[16:10] <fginther> (done)
[16:10] <philroche> * Ate all the mince pies
[16:10] <philroche> * Cloud image boot speed testing
[16:10] <philroche> (done)
[16:10] <rbalint> (short week)
[16:10] <rbalint> * livecd-rootfs changes
[16:10] <rbalint> * internal testbed setup
[16:10] <rbalint> * Debian:
[16:10] <rbalint>   - kodi new upstream & bug gardening
[16:10] <rbalint>   - libcec upload for GCC transition
[16:10] <rbalint>   - first release of debian-dad
[16:10] <rbalint> (done)
[16:11] <doko> rbalint: which GCC transition?
[16:13] <rbalint> GCC-7
[16:13] <rbalint> #853485
[16:14] <rbalint> this is now fixed in unstable
[16:14] <slangasek> rbalint: ah, so this was FTBFS in Ubuntu w/ gcc-7 up to now?
[16:14] <slangasek> and fixed via Debian upload
[16:15] <slangasek> any other questions re: status
[16:15] <slangasek> ?
[16:16]  * sil2100 missed the meeting
[16:16] <slangasek> sil2100: want to give your status now? :)
[16:19] <sil2100> I could, but I don't have it ready! Let me prepare it and paste
[16:22] <sil2100> - Regular SRU reviews/releases
[16:22] <sil2100> - Looking at some NBS packages (lib64expat1, poking gitweb for lynx-cur)
[16:22] <sil2100> - ubuntu-image:
[16:22] <sil2100>   * Investigating autopkgtest failures on bionic armhf - hard to investigate
[16:22] <sil2100>   * Fixing new PEP-8 issue in bionic
[16:22] <sil2100> - Preparing new google-cloud-sdk
[16:22] <sil2100> - Other stuff
[16:22] <sil2100> (done)
[16:22] <sil2100> Oh, and I was syncing up regarding the xenial HWE stack
[16:24] <slangasek> ok, any other questions on status?
[16:24] <bdmurray> nope
[16:25] <slangasek> [TOPIC] Bugs
[16:26] <slangasek> [LINK] http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-bb-incoming-bug-tasks.html#foundations-bugs
[16:27] <slangasek> anything needing triage here?
[16:27] <bdmurray> bug 1739531?
[16:28] <slangasek> huh
[16:29] <slangasek> bdmurray: +1 for taking that one
[16:30] <bdmurray> okay, I'll target it to the release then
[16:30] <slangasek> sorry, already did
[16:30] <slangasek> any others?
[16:30] <bdmurray> nothing else new per se
[16:31] <slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
[16:31] <slangasek> anything else today?
[16:31] <bdmurray> bug 1738517 is a duplicate and I'll sort that out
[16:31] <doko> merges ...
[16:31] <doko> we have a lot ones still assigned to former team members
[16:32] <doko> please could we assign these to current team members?
[16:32] <rbalint> i'm in for that
[16:33] <slangasek> doko: which ones do you mean?  are they ones the team owns (foundations-bugs listed on https://merges.ubuntu.com/main.html)?
[16:33] <doko> well, ba rry, cj watson, ...
[16:33] <slangasek> what /packages/ do you mean
[16:33] <doko> I don't have a list
[16:33] <doko> yes, owner is foundations-bugs
[16:33] <slangasek> barry's name is only on aptdaemon; we would preferably be migrating from aptdaemon to packagekit, not merging it
[16:34] <bdmurray> Is there even anything to merge with that?
[16:35] <nacc> it's only in oldstablle (per rmadison)
[16:36] <slangasek> doko: so, we need tooling to show people what work is yet to be done.  do you want to fix grep-merges to work by subscribing team name?
[16:37] <rbalint> doko, slangasek: how about about a blog post on planet.ubuntu.com calling for everyone to mark their merges if they want to work on them with a two weeks timeout?
[16:37] <doko> I can try to do that, but it would be low priority for me before I vanish at the end of next week
[16:37] <doko> for two weeks
[16:38] <slangasek> rbalint: I don't think that's the problem; we're talking about packages that have been unmerged for some time already, and core-devs should always feel free to grab them with an advisory ping to the person who touched it last
[16:38] <xnox> slangasek, "migrating from aptdaemon to packagekit, not merging it" -> is that hapeening?
[16:39] <rbalint> slangasek: i would do a broadcast ping then pick everything unmarked
[16:40] <doko> ugh, blogging about a team task?
[16:40] <slangasek> I don't think that buys us anything as a process to have a one-time ping
[16:42] <rbalint> slangasek: we would not have to ping people individually and may raise awareness for the merges if we mention universe as well
[16:42] <slangasek> rbalint: you are free to do this, but I don't think you want to blog about this repeatedly, and I don't think the problem doko is raising is a single point in time issue
[16:44] <slangasek> anything else on this?
[16:46] <slangasek> #endmeeting
[16:46] <meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Jan  4 16:46:59 2018 UTC.
[16:46] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2018/ubuntu-meeting.2018-01-04-16.04.moin.txt
[16:47] <slangasek> thanks, folks!
[16:53] <sil2100> Thanks!
[17:27] <flexiondotorg> wxl jose ahoneybun elopio o/
[17:32] <ahoneybun> here sorry
[17:32] <wxl> ah good
[17:32] <wxl> we were just discussing whether or not we're having it
[17:32] <wxl> so let's do it
[17:32] <wxl> one sec
[17:32] <ahoneybun> the meeting?
[17:32] <wxl> meanwhile see agenda https://community.ubuntu.com/t/call-for-topics-community-council-meeting-20180104/2793
[17:33] <ahoneybun> thanks wxl
[17:33] <wxl> #startmeeting Community Council meeting: 20180104
[17:33] <meetingology> Meeting started Thu Jan  4 17:33:07 2018 UTC.  The chair is wxl. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[17:33] <meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
[17:33] <wxl> as aforementioned, agenda is https://community.ubuntu.com/t/call-for-topics-community-council-meeting-20180104/2793
[17:33] <elopio> thanks for preparing it wxl.
[17:34] <wxl> no problem
[17:34] <wxl> i'm a little rusty with meetingology so bear with me
[17:34] <wxl> if there's anything you want to add to the agenda, now's the time. get it in at the bottom
[17:34] <wxl> #topic Progress from last meeting
[17:34] <wxl> #subtopic wiki discussion
[17:35] <wxl> i believe elacheche (who is currently on the phone) and popey were going to start a discussion about the wiki. i haven't seen anything on the hub yet.
[17:36] <wxl> perhaps someone else might want to start the discussion and then they can join in later?
[17:36] <popey> Yeah, it's not happened yet. I'll ping elacheche when they're around and we'll kick it off now the holidays are over
[17:36] <elopio> I wouldn't feel confident starting this discussion. Looking at how popey handled the hub, I'm happy to wait for when he's ready to start the wiki topic.
[17:37] <wxl> from what i read in the old notes, popey, it seems like you wanted to kind of provide an exhaustive history. maybe a simple summary might be a good place to start?
[17:37] <popey> Sure
[17:37] <wxl> in any case, it's obviously tabled, so we'll just deal with it next time
[17:38] <wxl> i'll move on unless someone else has thoughts on this?
[17:39] <wxl> #action @popey will produce a basic post on the Hub about the wiki, with a more extensive one to follow
[17:39] <meetingology> ACTION: @popey will produce a basic post on the Hub about the wiki, with a more extensive one to follow
[17:39] <wxl> #subtopic LoCo Council update
[17:40] <wxl> AFAIK nothing to tell here. I've watched over them a bit and they seem to be doing great. Had a huge number of re-verifications to deal with and dealt with them marvelously.
[17:40] <wxl> any questions? otherwise i'm moving on.
[17:40] <wxl> #subtopic 2018 Q1 events
[17:41] <wxl> this one's yours ahoneybun
[17:41] <elopio> wxl: maybe, just one action to invite them to the next meeting? Or the one in feb.
[17:41] <ahoneybun> are we talking about conferences? or what?
[17:41] <wxl> elopio: to explicitly deal with some particular thing or just to hang out?
[17:42] <wxl> no, i think it's more about planning and announcing ubuntu events. let me dig through logs
[17:42] <flexiondotorg> I've just added an agenda item about LFNW.
[17:42] <elopio> wxl: just hang out.
[17:42] <wxl> #action @wxl to invite LoCo Council to next meeting to hang out
[17:42] <meetingology> ACTION: @wxl to invite LoCo Council to next meeting to hang out
[17:43] <ahoneybun> are we planning more UbuCons or maybe one at LFNW with that new agenda item?
[17:44] <wxl> oh i'm sorry
[17:44] <wxl> this is UCADay
[17:44] <wxl> maybe?
[17:44] <wxl> wait
[17:44] <wxl> sorry this confusing :)
[17:44] <ahoneybun> no that happened already
[17:44] <wxl> look here https://community.ubuntu.com/t/community-council-meeting-20171207/2851
[17:45] <wxl> there's an action item that mentions our next item and has you associated with it ahoneybun and also includes an item to "plan and list global evenets for the 2018 Q1"
[17:45] <wxl> so that may not actually be yours
[17:45] <ahoneybun> ahhh
[17:45] <wxl> but it's not clear anyone actually owned that
[17:46] <wxl> looking at the logs https://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2017/ubuntu-meeting.2017-12-07-17.01.moin.txt
[17:46] <ahoneybun> I think it's a group action
[17:46] <wxl> it seems there was a discussion about Global Jams, etc.
[17:46] <ahoneybun> mine was the monthly community member highlight
[17:46] <wxl> yeah we'll get to that next :)
[17:46] <ahoneybun> yay Global James
[17:46] <jose> yep so
[17:46] <jose> last time we discussed having a 'featured event of the quarter'
[17:46] <wxl> is there someone that can at least produce a list of all of teh potential events so we can start working on planning?
[17:47] <ahoneybun> I don't have much since I've been out of it for life
[17:47] <wxl> that might be more managable
[17:47] <wxl> we can take them one at a time
[17:47] <jose> basically, we'd source a list of events from the LC and then we'd work with the LC to make one of them the 'featured event of the quarter'
[17:48] <ahoneybun> +1 featured events of the quarter
[17:48] <jose> do we want to start that for Q1? or push it to Q2?
[17:48] <wxl> well i'm also thinking it's probably on our shoulders to announce the larger events
[17:48] <wxl> like Global Jam itself, for example
[17:48] <jose> if we want to start it for Q1, does the LC have enough events or a global event we can feature?
[17:48] <jose> UGJs are on the LC
[17:48] <wxl> ah and you mean events in general
[17:49] <wxl> such as Ubuntu Hours, install fests, general get togethers
[17:49] <elopio> personally, I would like to focus next on translations.
[17:49] <elopio> I can plan something for march or april, together with the locos.
[17:49] <wxl> ok well let's not jumble up too much here
[17:50] <jose> yep, leaving planning aside
[17:50] <jose> 1.- can the LC provide a list of global events happening soon
[17:50] <jose> if not, then let's push it for Q2
[17:50] <wxl> +1
[17:50] <wxl> jose, would you get in touch with them and get a list?
[17:50] <jose> if they can, 2.- let's discuss it in the meeting we'll have with them to figure out the featured event of the quarter
[17:50] <jose> sure
[17:51] <jose> now, ideally, we'd work on the Q2 event during Q1, Q3 during Q2, and so on
[17:51] <jose> so we're a tad late, but we can make it work
[17:51] <wxl> ok
[17:51] <jose> I'll get the gears moving on my side
[17:51] <wxl> #action @jose to get the LoCo Council to provide a list of global events happening soon, with the goal of then having the CC picking an event to feature
[17:51] <meetingology> ACTION: @jose to get the LoCo Council to provide a list of global events happening soon, with the goal of then having the CC picking an event to feature
[17:52] <wxl> does that wrap up this topic?
[17:53] <jose> I'd say so
[17:53] <jose> not much else we can do on it
[17:53] <wxl> ok
[17:53] <wxl> now it's time for ahoneybun :)
[17:53] <wxl> #subtopic monthly community member
[17:53] <wxl> floor's yours my friend!
[17:53] <ahoneybun> I've been thinking fo the best way to vote for a community member
[17:54] <wxl> ooh voting. i like it. involve the community.
[17:54] <ahoneybun> social might not be the best but it is reachable to more people then mailing list
[17:54] <elopio> ahoneybun: for january, I suggest we highlight the winners of the google code-in.
[17:55] <wxl> of course they're likely not members, so that might be a different thing
[17:55] <ahoneybun> yea we can use jan to get together the voting with social media accounts
[17:55] <wxl> or do we mean community members (lowercase)?
[17:55] <elopio> oh, they have to be approved?
[17:56] <ahoneybun> community members can be non-ubuntu members
[17:56] <ahoneybun> like gnome or kde or other groups
[17:56] <wxl> ok yeah i didn't know what we meant
[17:56] <wxl> i hear "member" and i think "ubuntu member"
[17:56] <jose> ^ same here
[17:57] <elopio> voting sounds weird to me. Like, whoever ends up in the second place will be a great contributor and yet she loses.
[17:57] <wxl> so i mean how DO we pick someone?
[17:57] <elopio> maybe, we can use social for nominations. And whoever is not selected for a month will be selected for the following one.
[17:58] <ahoneybun> that could be a way
[17:59] <jose> but eventually we'll have a long list of people to be nominated 'the following month'
[17:59] <wxl> yeah we'll have years' worth in a matter of days XD
[17:59] <ahoneybun> nominate and pick random?
[17:59] <wxl> i think every month there needs to be a new set of nominations
[18:00] <elopio> no, we can sort them, depending on what we want to highlight that month
[18:00] <wxl> it might be good to ensure that we refer a wide range of different members
[18:00] <wxl> from different places, different contributions, different skills
[18:01] <wxl> i mean i don't want to see a year's worth of white male developers from the west
[18:02] <elopio> +1
[18:03] <wxl> anyone have a problem with us selectively picking and choosing?
[18:03] <ahoneybun> yea I would like to mix it with people from GNOME, KDE, Docs,
[18:03] <wxl> certainly different projects!
[18:04] <wxl> so who wants to orangize the call for people and collecting the list so we can then discuss who to pick?
[18:06] <elopio> I nominate ahoneybun for that task :)
[18:06] <wxl> i second that, should he be willing :)
[18:06] <ahoneybun> I mean I can get into GNOME but not sure about KDE at this point
[18:06] <wxl> ?
[18:06] <elopio> ahoneybun: the idea would be to make a call for nomiations on the hub
[18:07] <wxl> well, at least the hub, if not other social networks
[18:07] <elopio> we can help you promotiing it, and ask it to be forwarded to the ubuntu social channels.
[18:07] <wxl> and each call should be a call to ask people to spread the word
[18:07] <ahoneybun> I don't have social network access to Ubuntu stuff
[18:07] <ahoneybun> ah
[18:07] <wxl> yeah, so just make a hub post. that's all. there you go. bite size :)
[18:08] <ahoneybun> never used the hub before lol
[18:08] <elopio> also, it would be nice to get some artwork for the call. We can ask eylul, she might be interested to help
[18:08] <ahoneybun> I can't make a new topic in Annoucements
[18:09] <wxl> just make it anywhere and ask popey to move it
[18:09] <popey> +1
[18:09] <popey> There is an "uncategorized" area
[18:10] <ahoneybun> I'm there XD
[18:11] <wxl> #action @ahoneybun to create a hub post call for nominations for monthly community member.
[18:11] <meetingology> ACTION: @ahoneybun to create a hub post call for nominations for monthly community member.
[18:12] <wxl> i think it needs to be clear in the post and in social media posts that nominations will ONLY be considered if they're a reply to the hub post
[18:12] <wxl> i think it's unreasonable to expect that we can monitor all the various different social media avenues
[18:13] <jose> yeah, however there's a catch with that
[18:13] <jose> people need to sign up for the hub, which might be discouraging for those who just want to nominate someone
[18:14] <elopio> we need to encourage people to sign up and use the hub, so +1 on wxl's suggestion
[18:14] <elopio> and do we make a call for nominations on the first week of each month?
[18:14] <wxl> but jose brings a valid point. let's also provide the option to send the nomination to the cc list?
[18:15] <jose> again, I don't like pushing people to use the hub if they don't feel comfortable with it
[18:15] <jose> especially if they need to sign up and provide information
[18:15] <wxl> i think encouraging it is not a bad thing
[18:15] <wxl> requiring it might be
[18:15] <wxl> we DO want to discourage using a reply on twitter, though, e.g.
[18:16] <elopio> I am happy requiring it. It's the new center of our community, if somebody wants to be in the community, she should be in the hub.
[18:16] <jose> I think that might need further discussion
[18:17] <elopio> I am happy to discuss it too :) Topic for next meeting?
[18:17] <wxl> for now, let's offer only the two options (hub, cc list) with a preference towards the hub
[18:17] <jose> sounds good to me
[18:18] <wxl> something like: "To be considered, nominations must be replies to the post on the Hub (or you can use the CC list if you must)"
[18:19] <wxl> and the topic for next meeting there is whether or not we should consider the hub as the only source for communication?
[18:19] <wxl> or is this only within the context of this particular issue?
[18:21] <elopio> wxl: the former.
[18:22] <wxl> #action @wxl to add an agenda topic to next meeting concerned whether or not we should consider the hub as the only source for communication, with @elopio and @jose heading up the dicussion
[18:22] <meetingology> ACTION: @wxl to add an agenda topic to next meeting concerned whether or not we should consider the hub as the only source for communication, with @elopio and @jose heading up the dicussion
[18:22] <wxl> there
[18:22] <wxl> ok i'm going to move on unless there are other questions?
[18:23] <wxl> ahoneybun: just make sure to see our notes above about what qualifies as a valid nomination when you do the post.
[18:23] <ahoneybun> still working on it as a text doc for right now
[18:23] <wxl> take your time
[18:23] <wxl> #subtopic Google Code-In update
[18:23] <ahoneybun> we can make a pastebin or something to live edit
[18:23] <wxl> i assume this would be yours, elopio ?
[18:24] <wxl> i know i can tell you i've been BUSY with it personally as a mentor
[18:25] <wxl> after i fixed the Lubuntu QA tasks, balloons asked me to fix all of the other ones. being non-beginner tasks, we'll get a lot more of them, which is good
[18:25] <wxl> some comments on the IRC channel from students that are thankful for how much they've learned
[18:25] <wxl> lots of CoC signing and bugs reported on it (more about that later)
[18:26] <elopio> sorry. Um, yes, we have more than 500 tasks completed
[18:26] <wxl> i *STILL* have tasks to add
[18:26] <elopio> that's amazing. But it's a lot of work for the mentors, I'm happy that the contest ends soon.
[18:26] <wxl> me, too
[18:26] <wxl> the holidays were hard. lots of mentors gone.
[18:27] <wxl> the 15th is the deadline for claiming a new task deadline and the contest ends on the 17th
[18:27] <elopio> I will contact the participants for snapcraft to offer them follow up mentorships. More free form, to let them choose the path that they want to follow
[18:27] <wxl> i've been doing some encouraging in that regard, at least for Lubuntu and ISO testing/QA in general
[18:28] <elopio> to the other contributors for ubuntu in general, I think we need to encourage them to get in touch to their closest loco, sign the coc and participate on the hub.
[18:28] <elopio> I'll see if google can send me the emails of everybody who participated.
[18:29] <wxl> 579 is the official number btw
[18:29] <wxl> Wikimedia is at 575
[18:29] <elopio> I would like to do something nice for the winners, so I will nominate them for contributors of the month on ahoneybun's post, as soon as they are announced.
[18:29] <popey> We have another 20+ tasks to add. hopefully tomorrow
[18:30] <elopio> maybe invite them to ubuntu hour, or even get a short interview with them for insights. I'm not sure what's required for that last one, but we can see.
[18:31] <wxl> hm someone showed me an unoficial ranking
[18:31] <wxl> and now i can't find it
[18:32] <wxl> https://gci-leaders.netlify.com
[18:32] <elopio> also, we got a good bunch of new snaps packaged. I need to make a summary of that. And, a bunch of translations for the videos, I would like to keep working on this because there are many more languages to add.
[18:32] <wxl> we are ranked 7th for orgs
[18:33] <popey> I asked stgraber if we could use this as an opportunity to get lxd translated, he agreed, we need to make a task for that
[18:33] <wxl> (out of 25)
[18:33] <elopio> popey: awesome, let me know if you need a hand with that.
[18:33] <wxl> i would encourage all of you whether mentors or not to reach out to your community and see if they have tasks to add.
[18:33] <popey> elopio: i do! :D
[18:34] <wxl> #action EVERYONE to reach out to their community for any other ideas for Google Code-In tasks.
[18:34] <meetingology> ACTION: EVERYONE to reach out to their community for any other ideas for Google Code-In tasks.
[18:34] <wxl> anything else?
[18:34] <popey> elopio: would you have time to write the text in a doc (or directly in code-in) for a task for lxd? if so I can review and publish?
[18:34] <popey> i know we have a couple of participants ready to take it
[18:35] <wxl> oh i guess i have one other thing
[18:35] <elopio> popey: let's talk after the meeting, because I don't know if this is for the docs, or for the strings in weblate
[18:35] <wxl> do we have any students that are waiting >24h for a reply?
[18:36] <popey> elopio: i need to go afk after this meeting, but to answer your question, yes - it's weblate
[18:37] <elopio> popey: ok, I'll prepare the task.
[18:37] <popey> Magic, thanks
[18:38] <wxl> nevermind answered my own question
[18:38] <wxl> we're good
[18:38] <wxl> moving on unless anything else..
[18:39] <wxl> #subtopic report on why CC list is not moderated
[18:39] <wxl> this one is yours jose
[18:39] <jose> I talked with a former CC member
[18:40] <jose> basically, it's incredibly discouraging for a community member, especially one who gathered up the courage to email the cc and has a problem/concern, to get a 'your message is moderated' email
[18:40] <jose> even if there's a message in there, it will not help the stingy feeling that you tried to contact the governing council and got temporarily silenced due to moderation
[18:41] <wxl> could we not change the mailman message so it says "we've received your request and will get back to you immediately?"
[18:41] <jose> not sure, and that'd be on IS to push the change
[18:41] <jose> plus, I haven't received any spam emails on the cc mailing list, at least not for a while
[18:41] <wxl> well i think mailman might expose that
[18:41] <wxl> jeez i get them all the time ugh
[18:41] <jose> have you got any recently?
[18:42] <wxl> yeah
[18:42] <wxl> pretty much every day
[18:42] <wxl> admittedly, i can do some spam filtering, but then there's the likelihood of false positives
[18:43] <popey> If you're using gmail you rarely see them
[18:43] <popey> if you're on some other mail system, they often get through
[18:43] <wxl> yeah i'm not on Gmail
[18:43] <jose> anyways, that's the reason why the CC mailing list isn't moderated, and I agree with those statements
[18:44] <elopio> another item that can be fixed by encouraging people to talk to us through the hub :D This is a magical hammer that fixes everything.
[18:44] <jose> people need the ability to report in confidence
[18:44] <popey> Not for private conversations
[18:44] <jose> plus, again, it requires you to create an account
[18:44] <wxl> well on that topic flexiondotorg did you look into the possibility of using the hub as an entry point for the cc?
[18:44] <jose> which adds a barrier for getting to us
[18:45] <wxl> which is potentially the same problem
[18:45] <jose> I would put that one under a vote as well. we need to think out of all angles, and the hub just adds hassle and removes privacy
[18:45] <elopio> popey: there are private group chats, I've just noticed when somebody send a message to the two of us
[18:48] <wxl> well i'm not easily finding a solution to mailman
[18:48] <wxl> but i could propose it to IS
[18:49] <wxl> if we had a user-friendly moderation message, would anyone still have issues with turning moderation on?
[18:49] <jose> I wouldn't like for it to be moderated again. it'd have to be super-duper-extremely friendly
[18:49] <jose> otherwise, we just add friction to our communication flow
[18:50] <wxl> well it's probably all for naught but this is driving me nuts so i'll put it on my list
[18:51] <wxl> #action @wxl to explore with IS the possibility of modifying the default moderation message
[18:51] <meetingology> ACTION: @wxl to explore with IS the possibility of modifying the default moderation message
[18:51] <wxl> anything else on this?
[18:51] <wxl> #subtopic Hub federation to Planet
[18:51] <wxl> flexiondotorg you had this on your list. any new news?
[18:51] <wxl> anyone else know anything about it?
[18:53] <wxl> #action @flexiondotorg to report back on the possibility of federating the Hub to Planet Ubuntu
[18:53] <meetingology> ACTION: @flexiondotorg to report back on the possibility of federating the Hub to Planet Ubuntu
[18:53] <wxl> moving on then
[18:53] <wxl> #subtopic CC resources
[18:54] <wxl> i believe elacheche was going to compile a list of cc resources
[18:54] <elopio> instead of direct federetion, we could include our topics from the hub in the weekly newsletter, and that on the planet
[18:54] <jose> let's push it off for next meeting?
[18:54] <wxl> he's not here so i'll table this unless anyone else wants to add to it?
[18:54] <elopio> sorry, my conection is dslow
[18:54] <jose> UWN is not being published anymore
[18:54] <wxl> it's not???
[18:55] <jose> no, hasn't been since Oct
[18:55] <wxl> wow you're right
[18:55] <wxl> i'll follow up on that
[18:56] <wxl> #action @wxl to check in on the status of the Ubuntu Weekly Newsletter
[18:56] <meetingology> ACTION: @wxl to check in on the status of the Ubuntu Weekly Newsletter
[18:56] <jose> I can explain why, no need to
[18:56] <elopio> tsimonq2: was asking for help on the hub. We can give him a hand.
[18:56] <jose> publishing a weekly newsletter requires a lot of hands
[18:56] <jose> and it's not possible to do it with the current level of contributors
[18:56] <jose> we need steady contributors who can help every week, and we don't have them
[18:56] <wxl> well, i regularly speak with tsimonq2 so i can check in. he was pretty adamant about making things happen.
[18:57] <wxl> maybe we need to do some stuff in general to help bring contributors
[18:57] <jose> of course, we'd like to make things happen but unless we get those contributors, it's impossible
[18:57] <wxl> again, i'll check in with him directly
[18:57] <jose> and again, needs to be people who'll be willing to help in a weekly basis, not as a one-off thing
[18:57] <jose> feel free to
[18:58] <wxl> ok moving on then
[18:58] <wxl> almost done with old stuff!
[18:58] <wxl> #subtopic GSoC application
[18:58] <wxl> anyone on top of this?
[18:58] <wxl> popey?
[18:58] <wxl> elopio?
[18:58] <elopio> popey: should we apply?
[18:59] <wxl> is there a deadline for application?
[19:00] <elopio> oh, he said he was going to leave soon. I got a little scared with the amount of work that this things require. But I'm in if popey and flexiondotorg are in.
[19:01] <wxl> can you find out the deadline, elopio, and report back? (not now i mean, but not wait until next meeting)
[19:01] <popey> Heh
[19:02] <popey> Dunno what the requirements are for gsoc
[19:02] <popey> I know flexiondotorg has mentored on it before
[19:02] <elopio> deadlinne is jan 23rd
[19:02] <popey> Oh my
[19:02] <wxl> that's pretty darn close.
[19:03] <elopio> applications opened today
[19:03] <wxl> i'll make an action for you three to figure it out XD
[19:04] <wxl> #action @popey @elopio @flexiondotorg to put their heads together to evaluate the possibility of applying for GSoC.
[19:04] <meetingology> ACTION: @popey @elopio @flexiondotorg to put their heads together to evaluate the possibility of applying for GSoC.
[19:04] <wxl> and i'll put something on the agenda to see where we're at for next meeting
[19:04] <wxl> if we don't have it figured out by then it might be too late but c'est la vie
[19:04] <popey> I'd start a thread on the hub
[19:05] <popey> Like, now
[19:05] <popey> Like I did for code in
[19:05] <popey> We can have the discussion there
[19:05] <wxl> well i'll let you guys fight over which one of you does that XD
[19:05] <popey> NO CARRIER...
[19:05] <wxl> hahahahahhaha
[19:05] <elopio> popey: good call. I'll check the requirements
[19:05] <wxl> ok, i'll move on for the time being since there's not really much to discuss about this
[19:06] <wxl> one more piece of old stuff
[19:06] <tsimonq2> yo
[19:06] <wxl> tsimonq2: we'll talk later. don't sweat it :)
[19:06] <tsimonq2> wxl: ok
[19:06] <wxl> #subtopic changing meeting time and/or duration
[19:06] <wxl> so we should vote on this or what?
[19:06] <wxl> i'd love to make this official.
[19:07] <jose> we have 5 votes, with a span of +2
[19:07] <jose> we need another 2 +2s
[19:07]  * wxl sighs
[19:07] <wxl> we have votes from you and me, jose?
[19:08] <jose> one sec, I'm checking again just in case
[19:08] <jose> sorry, 4 votes, with a span of +2
[19:08] <jose> elopio, elacheche, you and me
[19:09] <jose> marcoceppi, ahoneybun, flexiondotorg and sabdfl haven't voted
[19:09] <wxl> so that leaves ahoneybun flexiondotorg and marcoceppi (and sabdfl)
[19:09] <jose> yes
[19:09] <wxl> and we need +2 more
[19:09] <marcoceppi> o/
[19:09] <wxl> what if everyone votes and we don't get it?
[19:10] <jose> my reason for the 0, same as elacheche, is we should have the 2h slot in case we need it, but we should have flexible times and if we can finish it in 1h, we do it
[19:10] <wxl> oh hi marcoceppi good to see you. you should join the UCC channel, btw.
[19:11] <jose> if everyone votes and we don't get it, we stick to the 2h slot, and again, we finish up as fast as we reasonably can
[19:11] <wxl> well i mean the question is whether or not we should have a minimum of 1h, no?
[19:11] <jose> having 2h doesn't mean we have to use all of it :)
[19:12] <jose> (we're over our 2h slot right now)
[19:12] <wxl> and do we also have any votes about moving it one hour ahead?
[19:12] <wxl> s/ahead/later/
[19:12] <jose> just two I believe
[19:13] <wxl> #action @ahoneybun @flexiondotorg @marcoceppi @sabdfl to vote on whether or not to change the 2 hour meeting to 1 hour
[19:13] <meetingology> ACTION: @ahoneybun @flexiondotorg @marcoceppi @sabdfl to vote on whether or not to change the 2 hour meeting to 1 hour
[19:13] <wxl> who's left?
[19:14] <jose> elopio and elacheche voted, the rest hasn't
[19:15] <jose> 2 votes with a span of +1
[19:15] <wxl> oh well it was my proposal so you can put me down for a +1 :)
[19:15] <marcoceppi> +1
[19:15] <wxl> marcoceppi: that's for which one?
[19:15] <marcoceppi> hah
[19:15]  * marcoceppi quits
[19:16] <jose> ok, and I'll go with a -1 for moving 17 to 18 utc
[19:16] <marcoceppi> I'm fine moving to a 1 hour meeting
[19:16] <jose> so, moving: 4 votes with a span of +1, duration: 5 votes with a span of +3
[19:17] <wxl> ok so
[19:17] <jose> marcoceppi: any votes on moving the meeting from 17 UTC to 18 UTC?
[19:17] <wxl>   #action @ahoneybun @flexiondotorg @sabdfl to vote on changing the meeting time from 17 to 18 UTC
[19:17] <wxl> right?
[19:17] <jose> depends on if he answers right now or not :)
[19:18] <wxl> the only problem with this is that if we don't move it, at least during teh winter, i am most likely going to be late
[19:18] <ahoneybun> I'll be at work either way lol
[19:18] <jose> and that's also the issue, DST doesn't apply for everyone around the world
[19:18] <wxl> yeah...
[19:18] <jose> ahoneybun: so, 0 for moving times?
[19:21] <wxl> #action @marcoceppi @ahoneybun @flexiondotorg @sabdfl to vote on changing the meeting time from 17 to 18 UTC
[19:21] <meetingology> ACTION: @marcoceppi @ahoneybun @flexiondotorg @sabdfl to vote on changing the meeting time from 17 to 18 UTC
[19:21] <wxl> let's just move on
[19:21] <wxl> we can do this async
[19:21] <wxl> #topic Review Code of Conduct bugs
[19:21] <wxl> i was hoping we could do this last time
[19:22] <wxl> get rid of the dead wood, as it were, to make room for GCI
[19:22] <jose> tbh I'd say let's call it a meeting and push it over, put it on top for the next meeting
[19:22] <jose> we're 30 over and participation has declined
[19:22] <wxl> c'est la vie then
[19:23] <wxl> we really need to start dealing with this old stuff.
[19:23] <elopio> wxl: a couple of actions: remember elacheche to publish the summary of the meetings he lead.
[19:23] <wxl> elopio: he already did afaik
[19:23] <elopio> wxl: and catch up with you on the status of the CoC violations
[19:23] <wxl> yeah well, that's one we should do privately, ultimately
[19:24] <wxl> i'll send something to the list about it
[19:24] <elopio> wxl: I don't see it here: https://community.ubuntu.com/t/call-for-topics-community-council-meeting-20171207/2571
[19:25] <wxl> just cuz there's no need to discuss private issues publicly
[19:25] <wxl> oh
[19:25] <wxl> confused about your "it"
[19:25] <wxl> https://community.ubuntu.com/t/community-council-meeting-20171207/2851
[19:25] <elopio> wxl: I meant, I don't see elacheche's summary in there.
[19:26] <elopio> thanks, I didn't see that one.
[19:26] <wxl> ok
[19:26] <wxl> anything else?
[19:27] <elopio> I would prefer to update the topic instead of creating a new one. wxl: what would you prefer for your summaries?
[19:27] <wxl> i don't really care, but i guess we didn't really make an HOWTO for the thing so we're just doing whatever seems right XD
[19:28] <wxl> but that way will fill up the category less
[19:28] <wxl> so let's do that
[19:28] <elopio> yep, that's why I'm asking, to start a howto :) If you support elacheche's style, I'll document that. If you prefer the one I was following, that will be the one.
[19:28] <wxl> we'll do it your way
[19:29] <wxl> so i'll give you to the TODO on the HOWTO :)
[19:29] <elopio> ok, so I'll take an action to document how to lead the meetings.
[19:29] <elopio> and last, wxl, will you lead the next one too?
[19:29] <wxl> #action @elopio to create a document how to lead the meetings, including dealing with postings and such
[19:29] <meetingology> ACTION: @elopio to create a document how to lead the meetings, including dealing with postings and such
[19:29] <wxl> yep
[19:29] <elopio> :) great
[19:30] <wxl> ok
[19:30] <wxl> we done? anyone else?
[19:30] <elopio> ok, thanks everybody. We are also missing to discuss flexiondotorg's point, maybe we can do that on the hub.
[19:30] <wxl> shutting it down in
[19:30] <wxl> 10
[19:30] <wxl> 9
[19:30] <wxl> 8
[19:30] <wxl> 7
[19:30] <wxl> 6
[19:30] <wxl> 5
[19:31] <wxl> 4
[19:31] <wxl> 3
[19:31] <wxl> 2
[19:31] <wxl> 1
[19:31] <wxl> ½
[19:31] <wxl> ¼
[19:31] <wxl> ⅛
[19:31] <wxl> #endmeeting
[19:31] <meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Jan  4 19:31:24 2018 UTC.
[19:31] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2018/ubuntu-meeting.2018-01-04-17.33.moin.txt
[19:31]  * jose picks up his sword
[20:22] <popey> wxl: thats the first time I have seen fractions of a countdown and it's now my favo{u}rite thing
[20:23] <wxl> popey: it's amazing what you can do with a Compose Key :)
[22:02] <tsimonq2> Hahahahaha :)


[03:34] <stgraber> robert_ancell: did somebody ping you about that recent unity-settings-daemon upload already?
[03:34] <robert_ancell> stgraber, no
[03:34] <robert_ancell> the dependencies?
[03:34] <stgraber> yeah
[03:34] <stgraber> that's pulling about 25 -dev packages on my desktop here
[03:34] <robert_ancell> I've already proposed a fix for that
[03:35] <robert_ancell> bug 1372728
[03:35] <stgraber> ah, let me check the queue
[03:35] <stgraber> I checked in -proposed but I guess the fix may be stuck in unapproved
[03:35] <robert_ancell> it hasn't been merged yet, it's awaiting review / landing
[03:35] <stgraber> ah
[03:36] <stgraber> robert_ancell: ok, can you try to push for things to go a bit faster? we're releasing a milestone this week and I'm sure the various flavours could do without that extra bloat
[03:37] <robert_ancell> I think I'll just upload it directly. The paperwork is too slow
[03:37] <stgraber> sounds good to me :)
[03:38] <stgraber> in the past when dealing with that kind of issue, I've found the fix first, sort out the paperwork later approach to work pretty well even if it does tend to confuse some of the folks maintaining those branches and alternate workflow :)
[03:39] <robert_ancell> stgraber, 14.04.0+14.10.20140922-0ubuntu2 - please shuffle through the queue
[03:44] <stgraber> robert_ancell: accepted
[03:55] <Noskcaj> darkxst, Could you explain http://paste.ubuntu.com/8415321/ ? It's the ppa rebased onto the current ubuntu empathy version
[03:55] <Noskcaj> And with all the geoclue changes reverted
[04:06] <darkxst> Noskcaj, are you missing libaccounts-glib-dev builddep maybe?
[04:06] <Noskcaj> i'll try
[04:12] <darkxst> Noskcaj, also libsignon-glib-dev?
[04:14] <darkxst> Noskcaj, paste your control file if it still doesnt work
[04:15] <Noskcaj> ok
[04:36] <Noskcaj> http://paste.ubuntu.com/8415513/ and http://paste.ubuntu.com/8415512/
[04:40] <pitti> Good morning
[05:49] <darkxst> Noskcaj, I can't see anything missing, but its quite a mess that control file!
[05:50] <darkxst> ppa version builds fine against utopic, so probably some build-dep missing
[06:04] <darkxst> Noskcaj, can you push your branch
[06:05] <Noskcaj> lp:~noskcaj/empathy/3.12
[06:05] <Noskcaj> (not pushed yet)
[06:07] <Noskcaj> pushed
[06:08] <Noskcaj> It's probably from my really bad revert patch
[06:17] <darkxst> Noskcaj, Revert patch is missing
[06:17] <Noskcaj> pushed
[06:27] <darkxst> Noskcaj, use git revert to make revert patches
[06:28] <Noskcaj> ok. I'd not realised that was a thing
[06:29] <darkxst> Noskcaj, you are missing a "DPKG_EXPORT_BUILDFLAGS = 1" in rules (needed or buildflags.mk won't do anything)
[06:29] <darkxst> we also force autoreconf on telepathy-accounts-widgets/ (see debian/autoreconf)
[06:31] <didrocks> morning
[06:44] <larsu> good morning!
[06:51] <Noskcaj> darkxst, still not
[06:53] <duflu> Mirv: Thanks again. Can you also change the Mir development focus to series 0.8?
[06:54] <duflu> (same branch in reality)
[06:58] <Mirv> duflu: ok, done! you're welcome.
[07:00] <darkxst> Noskcaj, you broke 00_linker-fixes.patch somehow
[07:01] <darkxst> that was causing your build failures
[07:02] <darkxst> and that patch should really be sent upstream
[07:03] <Noskcaj> thanks for spotting that, i think quilt refresh broke it somehow
[07:03] <darkxst> Noskcaj, never quilt-refresh patches that don't need it!
[07:04] <Noskcaj> yep, i think it was offset, but i shouldn't refresh unless it's got a fuzz
[07:05] <duflu> Mirv: You rock
[07:12] <Noskcaj> darkxst, thanks, fixed. Hopefully it functions with my reverts and doesn't need other unlisted ones
[07:35] <willcooke> morning all
[07:35] <willcooke> today is the day the builders come to fix the roof.
[07:36] <willcooke> and so it is raining
[07:36] <willcooke> yay
[07:36] <willcooke> :/
[07:36] <willcooke> in other news - the shoe shop are going to refund my money for the lost shoes.
[07:36] <willcooke> yay
[07:39] <didrocks> morning willcooke
[07:39] <didrocks> argh, no look on the weather :/
[07:39] <willcooke> it can't rain all day.
[07:39] <willcooke> Did you hear me weather gods!!!!
[07:39] <seb128> good morning desktopers
[07:40] <darkxst> Noskcaj, how many patches did you revert?
[07:41]  * didrocks whistles "U" "K" :)
[07:48] <Noskcaj> 4
[07:48] <Noskcaj> top 4 results for "geoclue" in the log
[07:55] <darkxst> Noskcaj, that would be right
[07:56] <darkxst> but... your changelog should give credit to the relevant people
[07:59] <darkxst> would be more or less 3.10.1-0ubuntu1~trusty2 entry from ppa, then seperately list your reverts for geoclue
[08:01] <Noskcaj> done, or do i need to make the revert patches separate?
[08:02] <darkxst> Noskcaj, at the very least update the patch header to say which commits you reverted
[08:04] <Laney> why hello
[08:04] <darkxst> Hi Laney
[08:04] <didrocks> because hi? :)
[08:09] <Noskcaj> done
[08:14] <darkxst> Noskcaj, I think patch 23 can be re-enabled
[08:15] <darkxst> 38_default_to_facebook_for_im.patch , code was moved, refresh in telepathy-account-widgets/tp-account-widgets/tpaw-protocol.c
[08:15] <seb128> hey Laney
[08:23] <darkxst> Noskcaj, 42_shell_running, just a refresh http://pastebin.com/dR6et9yi
[08:27] <darkxst> 47_git_activate_with_platform_data.patch is applied upstream so can be dropped
[08:39] <darkxst> Noskcaj, http://pastebin.com/yQuedJvL
[08:39] <Laney> you guys should use a vcs or something :)
[08:42] <seb128> Laney, they use pastebinvcs
[08:42] <seb128> :p
[08:42] <darkxst> yeh, it works great until the pastes expire ;)
[09:06] <seb128> Laney, does https://code.launchpad.net/~ken-vandine/ubuntu-system-settings/factory_reset_iface/+merge/235699 make sense to you? iirc you hit similar issues in the past/did similar changes, just checking because you probably remember better than me ;-)
[09:09] <Laney> seb128: yeah isValid is bad in those situations
[09:11] <seb128> robert_ancell, hey, could you have a look to 1371651 ?
[09:12] <seb128> robert_ancell, jibel pinged about it, seems easy to trigger on vbox/qemu and impact beta testing
[09:12] <seb128> robert_ancell, giving an IRC ping since you are still online, but probably something for tomorrow ;-)
[09:12] <seb128> jibel, ^
[09:14] <Laney> I think there are a couple more places where isValid calls could/should be removed
[09:14] <Laney> lemme see
[09:15] <seb128> robert_ancell, seems like you already looked at it ;-)
[09:15] <seb128> Laney, in that code or in u-s-s?
[09:15] <Laney> in the rest of uss
[09:15] <seb128> k
[09:15] <seb128> so that one can be approved
[09:15] <Laney> think so
[09:15] <seb128> thanks
[09:15] <Laney> like the SetTime call in time-date
[09:15] <Laney> not sure why I didn't do that one when I removed other calls in that panel ...
[09:15] <seb128> if you do a merge request for those I can ack it ;-)
[09:16] <Laney> lemme see
[09:16] <Laney> it'll be: launch uss, pkill timedated, try to set time
[09:16] <Laney> s/pkill/enter time setting screen, pkill/
[09:19] <Laney> yeah
[09:19] <Laney> gosh!
[09:20] <seb128> what?
[09:20] <Laney> me missing that back then
[09:20] <seb128> oh
[09:20] <mitya57> sil2100, hi, thanks a lot for approving lp:~mitya57/appmenu-qt5/lp1362104. Maybe it makes sense to land it (or will there be other changes for utopic)?
[09:21] <darkxst> Noskcaj, lp:~darkxst/empathy/3.12
[09:25] <robert_ancell> seb128, yeah, I've started looking at it but am on holiday until next week so wont look again until then.
[09:26] <robert_ancell> seb128, if you can find anyone to get more logs etc it would be helpful. My guess is something is going wrong with the upstart scripts and it's not being started but haven't reproduced it her
[09:26] <seb128> robert_ancell, hey
[09:26] <seb128> robert_ancell, yeah, seems to be the case, there is no lightdm log and the job is in stop state
[09:27] <seb128> robert_ancell, I suggested pinged the upstart/foundation guys
[09:27] <robert_ancell> seb128, I don't know a lot about the upstart scripts so yeah, they might be able to diagnose better
[09:27] <seb128> robert_ancell, but good to know you are on holidays, we are not going to block on you then ... enjoy ! ;-)
[09:27] <jodh> seb128, jibel: can you boot with --debug? Also, login and run 'sudo initctl --system list' and attach that.
[09:31] <jibel> jodh, output of initctl attached, and boot with --debug is https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lightdm/+bug/1371651/+attachment/4211218/+files/syslog.1371651.gz
[09:34] <jodh> jibel: thanks, but that's a huge file all dated 22nd. Is that correct?
[09:35] <jodh> jibel: would also be worth looking at /var/log/upstart/lightdm.log et al to look for errors.
[09:35] <jibel> jodh, let me attach one with latest image. problem is the same
[09:35] <jibel> jodh, /var/log/upstart/lightdm.log doesn't exist
[09:37] <jibel> jodh, and I searched for errors/failures in all the files in /var/log but didn't find anything obvious
[09:40] <jibel> jodh, syslog with --debug on latest image https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lightdm/+bug/1371651/+attachment/4213317/+files/syslog--debug_utopic_i386_20140923.gz
[09:44] <jodh> jibel: It looks like the problem could be plymouth - no plymouth-ready event is being emitted and that is required by lightdm. Can you check that status of lightdm (sudo initctl --system status lightdm). And also check that you can manually start it.
[09:47] <Noskcaj> darkxst, So did you finish it? guess i'll just call it a night then
[09:47] <jibel> jodh, lightdm stop/waiting
[09:48] <jodh> jibel: try starting it via 'sudo initctl --system emit plymouth-ready'
[09:48] <jibel> jodh, lightdm starts
[09:50] <jodh> jibel: great, so it's either a problem with plymouth displaying the splash screen (do you see one?) or a udev issue.
[09:50] <jibel> jodh, there is no splash screen
[09:51] <jodh> jibel: just to check, do you get output from 'grep PRIMARY_DEVICE_FOR_DISPLAY /var/log/udev' ?
[09:52] <jibel> jodh, nothing
[09:54] <jodh> jibel: ok, so it must be that udevd isn't finding a graphics device to tag as the primary one, which stops the plymouth splash from starting.
[09:55] <jibel> jodh, but why would it start sometimes?
[09:55] <jibel> I mean lightdm
[09:57] <jodh> jibel: sounds like a race. can you check for the presence of PRIMARY_DEVICE_FOR_DISPLAY in /var/log/udev for a successful boot?
[09:58] <jodh> jibel: udev-fallback-graphics.conf should be being used as a fallback so check if vesafb is loaded in the kernel.
[10:09] <jibel> jodh, lightdm starts if I display the boot menu but there is no PRIMARY_DEVICE_FOR_DISPLAY in /var/log/udev
[10:10] <darkxst> Noskcaj, I only fixed up the disabled patches
[10:10] <jodh> jibel: and is vesafb loaded?
[10:11] <Noskcaj> darkxst, Wasn't that all that was left? or didn't you take my branch?
[10:11] <darkxst> Noskcaj, that was your branch, and probably its ready
[10:12] <Noskcaj> darkxst, Could you leave a comment at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Noskcaj#Ubuntu-GNOME_PackageSet ?
[10:14] <jibel> jodh, no
[10:18] <darkxst> Noskcaj, username entry on add accounts is very laggy here
[10:19] <darkxst> Noskcaj, yes I will leave a comment
[10:24] <jodh> jibel: sounds therefore like the framebuffer isn't being setup normally, but when you enter the boot menu grub is handling that. Booting with 'debug' this time and capturing /run/initramfs/initramfs.debug could be useful.
[10:33] <darkxst> Noskcaj, have you tested empathy?
[11:07] <jibel> jodh, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lightdm/+bug/1371651/+attachment/4213440/+files/initramfs.debug
[11:09] <Laney> seb128: you updating to evince 3.14?
[11:25] <seb128> Laney, feel free to do it if you want
[11:25] <seb128> Laney, I'm probably going to but not his week since we are frozen
[11:27] <Laney> kay, might do
[11:32] <didrocks> popey: and a new blog post that we discussed last week on testing! https://plus.google.com/+DidierRoche/posts/aAnRPyvvPBE Mind sharing it through the usual channels?
[11:32] <didrocks> willcooke: ^
[11:33] <didrocks> popey: as the weather is getting cold, please make my raspberry sweating! :)
[11:33] <popey> \o/
[11:37]  * ogra_ wonders if he wants to know what "make my raspberry sweating" is supposed to mean
[11:37] <didrocks> ogra_: raspberry pi, of course :p
[11:37] <ogra_> :)
[12:27] <darkxst> seb128, can you try lp:~darkxst/empathy/3.12
[12:28] <seb128> darkxst, sure can, thanks for working on that!
[12:28] <darkxst> Noskcaj did the merge, I just sorted out the disabled patches
[12:30] <darkxst> seb128, I am hitting a wierd focus bug on the username field in the when adding account via empathy account settings
[12:30] <seb128> what sort of bug?
[12:30] <darkxst> but that may be a gtk bug, doesnt happen with gtk 3.14
[12:31] <darkxst> the text box doesnt properly focus, you can type, and not see anything until you click the password box
[12:48] <willcooke> thx didrocks
[13:59] <seb128> kenvandine, hey
[13:59] <seb128> kenvandine, do you have a settings landing on your todo? ;-)
[13:59] <kenvandine> hey seb128
[13:59] <kenvandine> yes... we really need one :)
[13:59] <seb128> great!
[14:00] <kenvandine> seb128, about my peer picker branch, what panel is visible?
[14:00] <seb128> kenvandine, the background one
[14:01] <seb128> it goes "list of picker app" -> back to background panel for a second -> gallery splash
[14:01] <kenvandine> should just see a full screen overlay
[14:01] <seb128> overlay?
[14:01] <seb128> when
[14:01] <kenvandine> the ContentTransferHint
[14:01] <seb128> I mean that's happening after clicking on the gallery icon
[14:01] <kenvandine> it should cover the panel with a progress thing
[14:01] <kenvandine> yeah... it happens when the transfer is created
[14:01] <kenvandine> am i still popping that page too soon?
[14:02] <seb128> want a screencast? ;-)
[14:02] <kenvandine> i played with that, and couldn't see it in the transition :)
[14:03] <kenvandine> actually... i can pop it when the transfer is created too...
[14:03] <seb128> let me try again
[14:08] <kenvandine> seb128, i can see where it might show quickly
[14:08] <seb128> kenvandine, want a screencast anyway?
[14:08] <kenvandine> nah
[14:08] <kenvandine> i can improve it :)
[14:08] <seb128> great :-)
[14:27] <xnox> seb128: do you like desktopy gnutls bugs?! =)
[14:27] <xnox> in trusty.
[14:28] <seb128> xnox, gnutls? what is that?
[14:29] <xnox> seb128: you know that obscure thing that handles some of the ssl connections in ubuntu. The best part it does it differently from openssl and thus half of things don't work against certain hosts.
[14:29] <xnox> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnutls26/+bug/1373422
[14:29] <xnox> utopic is fine though.
[14:29] <seb128> xnox, doesn't seem too desktopish to me, try foundation?
[14:29] <xnox> seb128: foundations hasn't hired a replacement for myself yet.
[14:30] <seb128> xnox, nice for you to step up until they do then ;-)
[14:30] <seb128> nice from you*
[14:30] <xnox> maybe i can trick jdstrand into adding one more intermediate certificate to ca-certs ;-)
[14:38] <mdeslaur> xnox: fyi, It works fine in trusty for me
[14:39] <xnox> mdeslaur: horum -> using which certs and which client.
[14:39] <xnox> mdeslaur: it doesn't work for me in a clean trusty chroot, with ca-certificates installed using gnutls-cli.
[14:39] <xnox> mdeslaur: can you show me your paste?
[14:39] <mdeslaur> oh, wait a sec, I messed up
[14:40] <xnox> ( my real problem is that git clone https:// does not work against servers with same certificate chain, but gnutls-cli 01.org is the minimal test.
[14:40] <xnox> ... or well anything else that's using gnutls, or libcurl(gnutls)
[14:41] <xnox> curl cmdline utility uses openssl and that works.
[14:41] <mdeslaur> I haven't looked at it yet, but it's probably an out of order cert, and you're hitting the well known gnutls issue with out-of-order certs
[14:43] <xnox> mdeslaur: hm, i've never heard about that. Any good terms to google for?
[14:43] <xnox> gnutls 3.x work fine by the way, hence utopic is not affected.
[14:43] <mdeslaur> xnox: https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=573736 , http://lists.gnutls.org/pipermail/gnutls-devel/2013-July/006389.html
[14:43] <mdeslaur> xnox: I was sure we had a bug in ubuntu about it, but can't find it now
[14:44] <mdeslaur> xnox: I haven't checked if that's the case with 01.org yet, but I suspect that's the issue
[14:47] <xnox> mdeslaur: yes the certificates are out of order.
[14:47] <xnox> i'll file internal ticket about this.
[14:52] <mdeslaur> xnox: cool.
[14:52] <mdeslaur> getting that properly backported in trusty would be nice too: http://marc.info/?l=gnutls-dev&m=137487800810924
[14:54]  * didrocks sees that ogra_ is slow today to repost on g+, is there a bug in Touch? :)
[14:55] <ogra_> lol, no, i was out ... buying a new coffee machine
[14:56] <didrocks> ogra_: you parallelize coffee now due to a huge demand? :p
[14:56] <ogra_> yeah, kind of
[14:57] <ogra_> done :)
[14:57] <Laney> ogra in the bourgeoisie
[14:58] <xnox> mdeslaur: so you want me to backport something to gnutls26 -> i clearly remember stating to never write any crypto code.
[14:58] <didrocks> ogra_: danke schön
[14:58] <ogra_> :)
[14:59] <mdeslaur> xnox: it's an annoying bug, and people keep hitting it...the patch backport in that thread looks simple enough...just need to make sure it's doing the same as 3.x
[14:59] <xnox> mdeslaur: right. is there any proper ubuntu LP bug about it?!
[14:59] <mdeslaur> xnox: and better you then me :)
[15:00] <xnox> mdeslaur: well the patch looks clean -> really just calling a sort on the array, so no verification code is changed.
[15:00] <xnox> mdeslaur: ok I'll poke it more.
[15:02] <mdeslaur> xnox: I can't find any open ones...there was bug 1043376
[15:02] <mdeslaur> xnox: looks like your bug is the best one
[15:25] <seb128> dpm, hey, indicator-transfer template made it to the rtm serie/translations are on launchpad, just as fyi since I'm unsure you need to do anything then to have those part of langpacks or something
[15:26] <seb128> kenvandine, ok, settings are getting crazy, we need a landing to clear out of some of the review list ;-)
[15:28] <kenvandine> seb128, yes it is :)
[15:28] <seb128> kenvandine, btw saw my comment on https://code.launchpad.net/~ken-vandine/ubuntu-system-settings/keywords/+merge/235737 ?
[15:30] <kenvandine> seb128, yes
[15:30] <kenvandine> pmcgowan, ^^^ can you comment on that?
[15:31] <seb128> kenvandine, also, is https://code.launchpad.net/~ken-vandine/ubuntu-system-settings/update_progress/+merge/235199 ready for review?
[15:31] <seb128> or still wip as the description states?
[15:32] <kenvandine> mpt, i wanted feedback from mpt... but i guess he gave up :/
[15:33] <Laney> pushed a branch with icon fix, might want to wait for debs to see if it works
[15:34] <pmcgowan> seb128, kenvandine they all have settings now, I assumed there was some reason
[15:34] <kenvandine> some did
[15:34] <pmcgowan> seems redundant
[15:35] <pmcgowan> seb128, you are suggesting to remove that word?
[15:35] <pmcgowan> I am fine with that
[15:36] <pmcgowan> or maybe it was on things which had settings and not for example in about which is info
[15:36] <Laney> we should make sure to do a pot update with this upload
[15:44] <dpm> seb128, thanks. I think it will need initial approval, let me look at it now
[15:46] <seb128> dpm, well, I did the launchpad template approval
[15:46] <seb128> dpm, just not sure if you need any magic to have it having an higher priority so translators see it or something
[15:46] <dpm> seb128, yep, just seen it and bumped the priority so that it appears together with the rest of indicators
[15:47] <dpm> that should be all we need
[15:48] <seb128> great
[15:48] <seb128> dpm, thanks
[15:57] <FJKong> hey seb128
[15:58] <seb128> hey FJKong
[15:58] <FJKong> I want to talk about pinyin search, last week we miss it
[15:58] <seb128> FJKong, sure
[15:59] <FJKong> seb128: what do you think about this feature
[16:02] <seb128> FJKong, it's useful and good to have obviously ;-)
[16:03] <seb128> FJKong, I'm unsure how much work it is though
[16:03] <seb128> especially with the library unity7 is using
[16:03] <seb128> I assume it's probably easier in unity8
[16:07] <FJKong> seb128: willcooke wants me to ping a guy from uniy team, Thomas Sthrel, but I didn't reach him on irc
[16:07] <willcooke> FJKong, he's on holiday
[16:07] <willcooke> shouldbe back next week
[16:07] <seb128> FJKong, he's on holidays until next week
[16:08] <FJKong> oh, nice
[16:58]  * willcooke -> EOD
[18:43] <seb128> Laney, btw, I tested glib on rtm, I don't see any issue, +1 from me for landing
[18:44] <mhall119> seb128: any idea what might be causing this https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nautilus/+bug/1322925 ?
[18:45] <seb128> mhall119, no idea no
[18:45] <seb128> it seems like worth upstreaming
[18:45] <seb128> if somebody hitting the issue wants to do that
[18:46] <mhall119> a quick googling doesn't turn up this problem on any other distro, could it be something only in our version?
[18:47] <mhall119> well, I mean obviously that's possible, so what I really meant was are we doing anything likely to cause it?
[18:47] <seb128> yeah, everything is possible
[18:47] <seb128> could be a patch, could be a compiler bug, could be that we have more google hint for the keywords you are looking for
[18:48] <seb128> nothing likely to cause it that I know no
[18:48] <mhall119> #3 is very likely
[18:48] <mhall119> ok
[18:52] <seb128> mhall119, comments say it exits since 12.04
[18:53] <seb128> mhall119, they also list different issues
[18:53] <seb128> like the current comment is about permissions errors, which is probably a disk that got remounted "ro" due to errors or something
[19:04] <mhall119> yeah, seems to not have much solid information about it
[19:04] <mhall119> and I've never experienced it myself
[19:06] <seb128> yeah, me neither
[19:06] <seb128> without an easy way to trigger it's difficult to debug
[19:06] <seb128> the bug has some users/comments but no duplicate
[19:10] <seb128> darkxst, empathy 3.12 works fine here, I don't see you username input bug in empathy-accounts, just added a jabber account without issue
[19:11] <seb128> wooot, u-s-s landing!
[19:11] <seb128> thanks kenvandine
[19:14] <kenvandine> np
[21:11] <pmcgowan> bregma, hi can you assign and tag this bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity-scope-mediascanner/+bug/1358750
[22:07] <hallyn> Is there a way to set unity so that when i resize a window, i get a dialog telling me the size as i do it?
[22:08] <hallyn> or do i have to get that info after the fact using wmctrl.
[22:11] <hallyn> sigh i'll just do that
[23:46] <ochosi> xnox: this sounds a bit familiar (black background in ubiquity in xubuntu instead of wallpaper), got any idea why this is happening? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xubuntu-default-settings/+bug/1365815
[23:47] <ochosi> guess we should assign it to ubiquity actually, not sure it has anything to do with x-d-s
[23:48] <ochosi> bbl


[00:59] <hads> ibeardslee: How's the Android install going? Did you get someone to bring your Nook in personally?
[02:45] <Wulf> Hello
[02:54] <Wulf> Can someone offer me a temporary (up to 6 months) job? Linux/network administration, programming, troubleshooting, whatever there is to do.
[02:57] <snail> Wulf: whereabouts are you? if in wellingtonish, you may want to talk to catalyst, who employ lots of linuxy people
[02:57] <Wulf> snail: Auckland, but I can move anytime
[03:02] <Wulf> Thanks for the hint
[05:32] <Atamira> wheee
[20:36] <ibeardslee> hads: The nook running android is pretty good.
[20:36] <ibeardslee> I had my Aunt in Connecticut post it over.
[20:37] <ibeardslee> I had been trying to use her address as the "I'm in the US" address, but they must do some matching of IP and country
[20:37] <ibeardslee> so unless I went to the extent of getting a proxy in the US, it is a bit crippled
[20:38] <ibeardslee> next step ... is to find the 'best' epub/pdf/* reader to install
[20:46] <ajmitch> morning
[20:56] <ibeardslee> oh yeah .. morning :)
[20:57] <ajmitch> how could you forget the most important part of speaking in here? :)
[20:58] <ajmitch> seems like it's going to be another day of painfully slow internet connectivity at work
[21:30] <snail> morning
[22:24] <chilts> morning
[22:24] <chilts> and what a lovely on it is
[22:25] <ajmitch> sure, lovely...
[22:25]  * ajmitch looks out at the rain
[22:44] <ibeardslee> you still haven't sent your CV through have you? ;)
[22:45] <ajmitch> hah
[23:15] <ojwb> morning
[23:18] <thumper> morning
[23:19] <thumper> ibeardslee: create a VPN through the US maybe?
[23:20] <ibeardslee> the issue is finding an end point
[23:21] <ajmitch> you won't find one for free
[23:21]  * ajmitch uses a relatively cheap vps
[23:21] <ibeardslee> I had considered getting a slicehost vps again for it
[23:22] <ajmitch> I'm using linode
[23:23] <ibeardslee> but .. another $x a month so I can buy books for the Nook Color
[23:24] <ibeardslee> although it could also be used for other georestricted stuff
[23:24] <ajmitch> if that was the only thing you were using it for, it wouldn't really be worth it
[23:24] <ibeardslee> that I'm not currently using .. but maybe I'm not using them because I can't
[23:26] <ibeardslee> but anyway .. the Nook is CyanogenMod'ed now
[23:33] <ojwb> can't you get tor to give you an endpoint in the US?
[23:40] <mwhudson> i wouldn't be surprised if many geolocation-restricted sites ban the obvious vps provides
[23:40] <mwhudson> (hulu bans linode iirc)
[23:52] <hads> I think I've watched hulu through one of my linodes. That may have been a wihle back though.
[23:52] <hads> ibeardslee: I ordered mine online from B&N from a NZ IP
[23:54] <ibeardslee> I ordered the Nook from the nz IP .. but had to have it delivered to a USA address
[23:54] <hads> Oh, I just re-read what you wrote.
[23:54] <ibeardslee> :)
[23:54] <hads> I didn't bother trying to buy books and things


[22:16] <XaT> hey there :)
[22:17] <XaT> where do i get full documentation about ubiquity & auto install (desktop 20.04) ?
[22:17] <XaT> for eg. which type of hashed password i must use...


[02:35] <StephDev> Is anyone working to fix all the broken builds?  Just wondering because 5.10 seems to be the only recent build that isn't broken
[14:18] <luna_> Kernel 5.10.1 from mainline does not work for me at all
[14:59] <arighi> luna_, do you get any error? does it boot or there's just a blank screen?
[15:17] <luna_> arighi: i ended up in an initramfs busybox
[16:32] <arighi> hm, so it's probably failing to mount the rootfs, I'm wondering if some modules are missing in the initramfs, or if it's expecting something to be statically compiled in the kernel
[17:18] <Moonspell> hi everyone :) I'm a student with an assignment, I need to implement 2 syscalls on kernel 5.4.* but I can't find a way to do it. On Google, there's a lot of info for older kernel versions, but that doesn't help me. Can someone point me in the right direction, please? thx
[18:06] <arighi> Moonspell, take a look at Documentation/process/adding-syscalls.rst
[18:38] <Moonspell> arighi, thx for your reply, I will check it, ubuntu site?
[18:38] <Moonspell> or kernel.org?
[18:46] <arighi> Moonspell, directly from the kernel source
[18:47] <Moonspell> w8
[18:47] <arighi> or if you prefer: https://elixir.bootlin.com/linux/v5.4.83/source/Documentation/process/adding-syscalls.rst
[18:47] <Moonspell> ahh nice, saw it
[18:51] <sarnold> Moonspell: check the kernelnewbies community
[18:59] <Moonspell> A lot to process!
[18:59] <Moonspell> I'll try to do something with this :) thx once again
[19:01] <sarnold> have fun :)