[00:00] <apachelogger> http://wstaw.org/m/2013/03/02/plasma-desktopqc2250.png
[00:01] <yofel> how did we end up going back to grey background?
[00:01] <yofel> not that it looks bad though
[00:01]  * yofel is tired of launchpad erroring out on him *-.-
[00:03] <apachelogger> yofel: ask sheytan
[00:03] <apachelogger> at this point I do not even care no more
[00:04] <yofel> this still has to transition to blue at some point...
[00:04]  * yofel throws 500 errors at launchpad *-.-
[00:07] <apachelogger> http://wstaw.org/m/2013/03/02/plasma-desktopRb2250.png
[00:07] <apachelogger> yofel: try 404 :P
[00:07] <apachelogger> yofel: also why blu?
[00:07] <yofel> our desktop background is blue?
[00:07] <apachelogger> not really
[00:07] <apachelogger> it has blue
[00:07] <apachelogger> it is every color of the rainbow
[00:08] <apachelogger> plus loads of dark
[00:08] <yofel> it feels as blueish as it hasn't done in a long time
[00:08] <apachelogger> blue is all in the mind it seems :P
[00:09] <apachelogger> did I mention that 2 users looks fucked up due to imbalance
[00:16] <apachelogger> ohm
[00:16] <apachelogger> somehow it seems the spacing in the current lightdm theme is fucked
[00:17] <apachelogger> the userlist+passwordinput+sessiondropdown is not layouted as one block of foo but instead the passwordinput is in the absolute center and the other crap is relative to it
[00:17] <apachelogger> which makes the entire thing slightly oriented to the top
[00:20] <apachelogger> this code is a  weee bit crappy
[00:21] <yofel> at least it's not python
[00:23] <apachelogger> http://wstaw.org/m/2013/03/02/plasma-desktopdn2250.png
[00:23] <apachelogger> I sure hope that was also intentional in sheytan's mock
[01:00] <apachelogger> http://wstaw.org/m/2013/03/02/plasma-desktopJZ2250.png
[01:32] <yofel> running lintian over all KDE packages is... interesting
[01:32] <apachelogger> ^^
[01:35] <yofel> ok, status page fortified against launchpad failures and linitan output added
[01:35] <yofel> now to wonder why launchpad fails in the first place...
[01:36] <yofel> oh, it stopped failing
[01:36] <yofel> perfect timing.......
[01:58] <yofel> W: kde-workspace-randr: empty-binary-package
[01:58] <yofel> o.O
[02:13] <apachelogger> so many colors
[02:13] <apachelogger> -.-
[02:13]  * apachelogger feels like blogging about rolling
[02:17] <yofel> too much red on that page -.-
[02:23]  * apachelogger decided not to blog about rolling
[02:24] <yofel> there is nothing to blog about
[02:24]  * apachelogger ponders making a graphic and simply post the graphic as a blog post
[02:24] <yofel> Scott said what was to be said
[02:24] <yofel> we don't know more yet to say anything more
[02:25] <apachelogger> ScottK's wrong because he was not listening to me yesterday :P
[02:26] <apachelogger> also unless I am mistaken there is no concensus as to who is the target audience of the rolling release yet
[02:26] <apachelogger> is it devs, or is it geeky users, or the regular john doe
[02:26] <apachelogger> no one knows
[02:27] <yofel> pretty much
[02:27] <apachelogger> and to that extent what really is important there ... what degree of assumable breakage can this audience face
[02:28] <apachelogger> and that is really fundamental to outlining exactly what a package distribution flow needs to look like in terms of pre-rolling-archive QA
[02:28] <apachelogger> BUT
[02:30] <apachelogger> why I think ScottK is wrong is because mostly we are doing a rolling workflow with the SC already
[02:30] <apachelogger> with a binary rolling distro you need a staging ground so that all SC binaries are built and can be published *as a whole* to a public archive
[02:30] <yofel> not quite
[02:31] <yofel> he did say that our rolling workflow is currently opt-in to users
[02:31] <yofel> what ubuntu plans isn't
[02:31] <apachelogger> it doesn't matter
[02:31] <apachelogger> also ubuntu's rolling is
[02:31] <apachelogger> either use LTS or use rolling
[02:32] <yofel> erm, it's LTS or use rolling-montly or use rolling-daily
[02:32] <apachelogger> what ScottK decides to completely ignore is that by not having intermediate Kubuntu releases we free up resources to provide intermediate SC releases to an LTS release
[02:33] <yofel> that only works as long as backports are feasable
[02:33] <apachelogger> we have no plan on how to distribute the thusly formed new product, but that is really just a either this or that decision
[02:33] <apachelogger> there is no policy making involved there
[02:33] <apachelogger> yofel: when do they become unfeasble?
[02:33] <yofel> though I saw something called cxx11-cmake-modules today so maybe I worry too much
[02:34] <yofel> apachelogger: stuff like things becoming unbackportable
[02:34] <yofel> like JontheEchidna not supporting gcc 4.6
[02:35] <apachelogger> stop pushing updates?
[02:35] <yofel> as long as we can somehow keep moderately-adventurous users up-to-date on the LTS for 2 years, we should be able to work out the rest
[02:36] <apachelogger> nah
[02:36] <apachelogger> wrong thinking again
[02:36] <yofel> sure one would have to stop. But providing 4.11 on rolling-only isn't something that I really like
[02:36] <apachelogger> we do not know what the target audience of rolling is
[02:36] <apachelogger> so supporting anything but an LTS user on LTS is right now no concern
[02:37] <yofel> hum
[02:37] <apachelogger> so I agree, that is an issue, it's more of an upstream issue though
[02:37] <yofel> we can't quite say that without knowing the target userbase :/
[02:37] <apachelogger> if an upsteram decides they do not want to support 1 year old software for the lulz of it that is their right, however our position towards that upstream probably ought to be reconsidered
[02:39] <yofel> heh, what I would really like are commit-info mailing lists for kde stable branches, then us distros can keep sharing fixes there when upstream stops caring
[02:39] <yofel> which reminds me that we need to check debian for 4.8 fixes at some point
[02:39] <apachelogger> I was under the impression we hae that
[02:39] <yofel> we do? all I know about is #kde-commits
[02:39] <apachelogger> commitfilter.kde or something
[02:40] <apachelogger> should go into projects.kde at some point I reckon
[02:40] <yofel> looking at it
[02:40] <apachelogger> at any rate, there is server-side infrastructure due to irc commit stuff
[02:41] <apachelogger> so if comitfilter is not working anymore I guess making a new thing is really just a matter of writing a simple webui with rules and have a hook send mails accordingly
[02:42] <apachelogger> back to the rolling thing though..... there is a close to nothing difference between what we do and what we would end up doing
[02:42] <apachelogger> stuff goes into ninja -> inital binary staging (such that one has a consistent binary stack) + inital limited QA
[02:42] <yofel> well, leaving kde betas aside, that's true
[02:42] <apachelogger> talking stable
[02:43] <apachelogger> once packaging is done...
[02:43] <yofel> in fact, KDE itself is really not the worst issue here. More worrying is the base system and toolchain transitions
[02:43] <apachelogger> it moves to archive (if archive targets people who can live with the odd upgrade breakage)
[02:43] <apachelogger> if it is not for archive it goes into testing (new ppa)
[02:44] <apachelogger> once we are happy with it, it goes into archive (guess that's about a week or so)
[02:44] <apachelogger> now with betas/unstables it is really the same process
[02:44] <apachelogger> except it again depends on the audience of the archive
[02:45] <yofel> yeah
[02:45] <apachelogger> if they can live with the odd crash in not-so-stable software it goes in the archive, otherwise it goes into the experimental ppa for example
[02:45] <apachelogger> and here is the thing ... putting it in a ppa when the archive is not the place to put it due to the audience it does not change the way we get testing
[02:46] <apachelogger> right now you can be using stable and need to opt into beta-backports
[02:46] <apachelogger> OR you have opted into using raring in which case you again willingly opted for a testing platform
[02:46] <yofel> what we would loose are the dev release users that we could force beta packages onto
[02:46] <yofel> though...
[02:47] <yofel> those would probably add the PPA anyway
[02:47] <apachelogger> in a world where the archive is always targetting a semi-end-user-ready state you'd be able to run LTS and opt into testing (given backportibility is given) OR run rolling and opt into testing (via ppa)
[02:47] <apachelogger> at the end of the day a user will have to opt into beta testing as they have had to do for years already
[02:48] <apachelogger> yofel: yeah, but really you are not forcing something onto people that were not willing to live with the brokenness and help make it go away
[02:49] <apachelogger> I mean, perhaps you have the odd user that wanted to try it and will never do it again because in feburary the x team decided to break nvidia compat and he can't play tf2 anymore
[02:49] <apachelogger> what I am saying is
[02:49] <apachelogger> a raring user may not have agreed explicitly to testing the 4.10 prereleases, they did so implicitly though
[02:50] <yofel> fun part here is that the X team wouldn't be allowed to do so anymore
[02:50] <apachelogger> yeah
[02:50] <apachelogger> a fact people apparently also decide to ignore
[02:51] <apachelogger> they try to fix/discuss kubuntu's problems because the other teams apparently do not see it as a problem they will face :S
[02:52] <apachelogger> yet we are really in a fantastic position because we have the workflow pretty much ironed out already, it is only a matter of which path a package will have to take given the target audience of the archive
[02:52] <yofel> really? I don't think people dispute over the benefits. Those are clear. The problem is the missing technical details of the implementation and that nobody looked at the problems of the non-core teams
[02:52] <yofel> IMO pitty summarised out issues pretty well
[02:52] <yofel> or at least the ones I was worried about
[02:53] <apachelogger> haven't read any mail in detail
[02:53] <apachelogger> so I'd not comment on that specifically
[02:53] <yofel> s/pitti/slangasek
[02:53] <apachelogger> overall it feels like the non-canonical stakeholders other than kubuntu (thanks to ScottK!) are not really trying to make their concerns heard
[02:53] <yofel> http://paste.kde.org/685202
[02:53] <apachelogger> (or perhaps they have no concerns, who knows)
[02:54] <ScottK> non-canonical stakeholders other than Kubuntu are all muppets
[02:54] <yofel> actually scratch the last point, we just talked about that
[02:54] <apachelogger> if that is true it makes me sad
[02:54] <apachelogger> yofel: yeah, and the other stuff is arm
[02:55] <apachelogger> which is really the only issue we have from a testing&staging perspective
[02:55] <apachelogger> also ddebs
[02:55] <yofel> it's true though. The ubuntu community has become pretty stale recently
[02:55] <ScottK> I think having a "release" with current KDE is important.
[02:55] <ScottK> And backports is not the answer.
[02:55] <yofel> Many teams feel kind of zombie like, and the folks in #ubuntu+1 are pretty much the same ones I've known for years
[02:56] <ScottK> Well Mythbuntu, Ubuntu Studio, Edubuntu, and Xubuntu are all kind of on life support.
[02:57] <ScottK> Not a lot of diverse developer participation.  I think we have more than all of them combined.
[02:57] <apachelogger> ScottK: why is backporting not the answer though?
[02:57] <ScottK> The official rule we have for backports is no new versions of libraries.
[02:58] <apachelogger> ah you mean official backports
[02:58] <ScottK> yes
[02:58] <yofel> ScottK: wouldn't it be ok if we took one of the post-KDE release good ISO images and marked that as usable? Or would that be too close to Arch?
[02:58] <ScottK> yofel: Then users are still stuck on rolling.  It's not a release.
[02:58] <yofel> hm
[02:58] <ScottK> It's just like another beta image.
[02:59] <yofel> hm
[02:59] <ScottK> If Ubuntu goes LTS + Rolling, what that really means is LTS + dev release.
[02:59] <apachelogger> yeah
[02:59] <yofel> my problem with KDE "releases", is that upstream really totally doesn't care about release-1
[02:59] <zequence> Hi. Developer from Ubuntu Studio here. Yes, Kubuntu seems quite big, but the focus on development is quite different for different flavors. For Ubuntu Studio, the desktop makes less difference, while just having a decent kernel already makes a world of difference for us. We're flexible in this way
[02:59] <ScottK> So if you want to give someone a stable release it's LTS + stuff.
[02:59] <yofel> so a release looses a lot of its worth half a year after it's out
[03:00] <apachelogger> ScottK: I find that a pleasing thing TBH
[03:00] <ScottK> yofel: Right.  I was thinking we might support a year instead of 18 months for non-LTS.
[03:00] <apachelogger> we get to put neat new KDE stuff on a constantly maturing base
[03:00] <apachelogger> so to me that seems like a good thing
[03:00] <zequence> I would think however, that if a rolling release is in question, it should be in everyones interest to have good quality packages. And the ones flavors care about aren't necessarily the same as flavors care about
[03:00] <ScottK> Then we're at most n-2 for supported releases which is what officially gets security support from upstream.
[03:01] <zequence> Sorry, Canonical vs flavors
[03:01] <zequence> Some kind of buffer is needed
[03:01] <ScottK> zequence: That's true, but given the claims of stability and consistent usability for this rolling thing, it's really not clear how to do development in it at all.
[03:02] <ScottK> zequence: Ubuntu desktop and Ubuntu server are flavors too.
[03:02] <ScottK> Just Canonical sponsored ones.
[03:02] <apachelogger> ScottK: as I see it the release buisness first needs to be decided by us though ... in terms of which route we want to go ... because simply using PPA backports has served us well and is straight forward ... taking LTS and pack a new KDE ontop of it is also nice but more work
[03:02] <yofel> one question I didn't see an answer on the list about was kernel testing
[03:02] <apachelogger> i.e.
[03:03] <ScottK> apachelogger: Yes, but we never needed to do base an official release on that, so it's a bit more than we've done.
[03:03] <zequence> I'd be surprised if the kernels would not be dealt with differently on a rolling release
[03:03] <ScottK> yofel: It was asked and there's a spec for next week on how kernel transitions will be done.
[03:03] <apachelogger> do we actually want intermediate releases with supported aligned to upstream (dropping the LTS idea) or do we retain the LTS idea and allow users to put a new KDE SC on top of the LTS base
[03:03] <apachelogger> ScottK: well yeah, we'd organize our own release
[03:03] <yofel> ScottK: ok, I saw the question, but obviously missed the spec
[03:03] <apachelogger> and do it basically
[03:04] <zequence> They simply must keep some kind of testing repo. Call it experimental, or whatever
[03:04] <ScottK> yofel: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/client-1303-rolling-kernel-maintenance
[03:04] <yofel> thanks
[03:04] <yofel> hm, got renamed... again
[03:04] <apachelogger> anywho
[03:04] <ScottK> Lovely
[03:04] <apachelogger> all I am saying is that we need to mae a decision on this topic first
[03:05] <zequence> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/foundations-1303-rolling-kernel-maintenance
[03:05] <ScottK> apachelogger: We definitely need to do that.
[03:05] <apachelogger> then draw requirements from that
[03:05] <apachelogger> like if we want to roll ontop of LTS perhaps a kubuntu-specific pocket would be possible
[03:05] <ScottK> This is why I carefully phrased my last reply as a personal opinion and not something Kubuntu had settled on.
[03:05] <yofel> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/foundations-1303-rolling-kernel-maintenance
[03:05] <yofel> ah, zequence was faster :)
[03:05] <apachelogger> so our backports woud be in the archive but not in the regular backports
[03:06] <ScottK> I love how for all the crap emails I get from launchpad, it doesn't send the one with the new URL.
[03:06] <ScottK> apachelogger: New pockets are kind of really hard.
[03:06] <apachelogger> <3 lunchpad ^^
[03:06] <apachelogger> ScottK: just an idea
[03:07] <ScottK> Yeah.  Someone else suggested it in the threads in a slightly different context and cjwatson ran screaming into the night.
[03:07] <ScottK> pocket names are apparently hard coded throughout the LP codebase.
[03:07] <apachelogger> I personally would have no problem with doing it via PPAs either, given the size of our team that is also doable for the forseeable future
[03:07] <apachelogger> ScottK: big surprise there ^^
[03:07] <ScottK> I'm not sure if a blessed non-virt PPA or a full LP derivative distro are the best ideas.
[03:08] <ScottK> Neither are mirrrored.
[03:08] <ScottK> But that's implementation details.
[03:09] <apachelogger> yeah, also at least I do not know the involved software enough to make educated guesses about what would be easiest to achieve with greatest gain
[03:09] <apachelogger> I mean, one coudl perhaps also nicely ask mirror providers to mirror the kubuntu-ppas (for example)
[03:09] <ScottK> The derived distribution function is what Canonical uses to roll their own OEM variants.
[03:10] <ScottK> You get a whole derived distro release that you can sync to like we do from Debian or upload directly to.
[03:10] <apachelogger> *nod*
[03:10] <ScottK> We could probably automate SRU and security update copies from the LTS.
[03:10] <ScottK> Then whatever we put on top of that is really up to us.
[03:10] <zequence> Are you talking about keeping the entire flavor in a PPA, and have ISOs generated from that?
[03:11] <apachelogger> we are talking about whether or not to do releases with the LTS foundations and a more recent KDE ontop
[03:11] <zequence> hmm, wait, I'm forgetting about the repos now :P
[03:11] <apachelogger> nothing more than that :P
[03:11] <ScottK> zequence: It's either LTS repo + PPA for our stuff or a full derived distro, which is not a PPA, but more - you will have never seen it as they aren't public (it's only due to very odd circumstances I've seen it)
[03:12] <apachelogger> ScottK: you spied someone's laptop at uds didnt ya :P
[03:12] <ScottK> No.
[03:12] <apachelogger> that's probably why they stopped doing udses
[03:12] <ScottK> I got invited to participate in beta testing an LP thing.
[03:12] <apachelogger> canonical employees were always reading internal mailz during talks
[03:12] <ScottK> Because I was a !canonical archive admin
[03:12] <apachelogger> ah
[03:13] <apachelogger> I like my uds conspiracy theory better though
[03:13] <apachelogger> ^^
[03:14] <apachelogger> ScottK: oh btw, we did a testing mumble setup yesterday, mumble should be good to use for uds
[03:14] <ScottK> I do know lamont has a very spiffy light polarization screen he pulls out if he's sitting in a session next to you and he doesn't want you to see his screen.
[03:14] <ScottK> Great.
[03:14] <apachelogger> also the client has builtin recording so that is reather nice
[03:14] <ScottK> Nice.
[03:15] <apachelogger> oh and shadeslayer was trying to use juju to auto-deploy a configured mumble to ec2
[03:15] <apachelogger> so we could actually do voip whenever we want to ^^
[03:17] <ScottK> Handy.
[03:17] <ScottK> IIRC mumble has a security record that doesn't inspire confidence for leaving it up and running.
[03:17] <ScottK> Or maybe I'm thinking of something else.
[03:17] <zequence> How would this work for you? All updated packages end up in a buffer repo, something like -proposed, and if any problems are found, flavors are able to freeze them. I'm pretty sure the packages that flavors care about in this context would not stop Canonical to keep developing Ubuntu in whatever way they want
[03:18] <ScottK> zequence: For Alpha 1 and Alpha 2 we did put migration blocks in place.
[03:18] <yofel> zequence: that fails the moment we have issues with enthusiastic X updates from canonical
[03:18] <ScottK> It did affect packages they care about, but not for very long, so they were OK with it.
[03:18] <apachelogger> ScottK: seems to be somewhat popular with the gamers short of getting expensive TeamSpeak3 licenses, so I'd at least hope it has somewhat sane security ^^
[03:19] <ScottK> How much do gamers usually care about security?
[03:19] <apachelogger> but yeah, for us it makes no sense ot have it running all the time anyway, so... ^^
[03:19] <ScottK> I'm sure mumble is fine.
[03:19] <apachelogger> ScottK: gamers usually use hosting services, those probably care
[03:19] <zequence> this could also be expanded to them keeping two repos. A dev repo, and stable rolling release repo, which would not be updated as aggresively
[03:19] <apachelogger> ScottK: i.e. specific mumble hosters actually
[03:19] <apachelogger> gamers are really lazy ^^
[03:20] <yofel> zequence: not sure if that is much more than the raring + raring-updates + PPA proposal
[03:20] <yofel> apachelogger: btw. do you still need the database?
[03:20] <yofel> or did you guys redo the setup?
[03:21] <apachelogger> I didn't redo it, you coudl simply tar it up and put it on people.ubuntu.com in a .foo folder or something
[03:21] <ScottK> lol - http://hellenicpolytheist.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/killer_whale_eating_penguins-jump-in-air.jpg
[03:21] <apachelogger> in case shadeslayer wants to try deploying it
[03:21] <ScottK> See Alan Bell's mail to u-devel.  It's pretty decent.
[03:21] <apachelogger> though since he is out of office I am not sure that is gonna happen soon ^^
[03:22] <zequence> yofel: I think the main difference would be that the community needs to have a stronger veto in stopping updates, when needed
[03:22] <ScottK> zequence: I can stop any update in the archive right now.
[03:22] <apachelogger> yofel: zequence has a point in that technically other teams will need a setup like ours
[03:22] <ScottK> What it takes is being on the release team, doesn't matter who you work for.
[03:23] <apachelogger> namely what I was raging about earlier what with other teams apparently not caring
[03:23] <ScottK> It is somewhat different as it's not like Xfce or Lxde have libs used by a lot of third party apps.
[03:24] <yofel> well, ubuntustudio were the only ones beside us to comment, true
[03:24] <zequence> Our problem right now is definately a lack of developers. None with upload rights, etc. But, a couple of us are moving towards that.
[03:24] <ScottK> I think studio is primarily focused on a kernel and it's a separate one.
[03:24] <zequence> I'm currently the maintainer of linux-lowlatency. I however am not doing the dev release kernel yet
[03:24] <yofel> xfce or lxde would still be affected by the gtk backportability discussion
[03:24] <apachelogger> ScottK: Alan's mail caues QA boners
[03:24] <ScottK> yofel: Not going in official backports, so it needn't affect them.
[03:25] <zequence> We depend on desktops too, of course, but we don't focus on making them stable
[03:25] <ScottK> :-)
[03:25] <yofel> hm ok, true
[03:25] <apachelogger> not so efficient though unfortunately
[03:25] <apachelogger> 1 month set testing is *a lot* of time
[03:26] <zequence> I think for other flavors, the change has been very sudden, and they haven't had the time to react properly
[03:26] <apachelogger> and chances are there will be at least one package every month that has had a somewhat sizable regression
[03:26] <yofel> isn't what Alan wants kinda gentoo-like? put everything in testing and mark stuff stable after a while? (except gentoo doesn't do it based on date)
[03:27] <yofel> zequence: really? the rumor was there for a while now. Maybe everyone tried to ignore reality ^^
[03:27] <zequence> yofel: I think people were expecting a change for 14.04
[03:27] <zequence> Not 13.03
[03:27] <apachelogger> yofel: oh, I read it as the entire snapshot gets rejected
[03:27] <apachelogger> per-package makes somewhat more sense
[03:27] <yofel> zequence: that is right (same for us actually...)
[03:28] <apachelogger> however that allows for kabooms in terms of KDE SC
[03:29] <apachelogger> say somestuff fails QA and doesn't get in but a new amarok gets in, but the new amarok really runtime depends on somestuff, so you have a somewhat defunct amarok now
[03:29] <yofel> apachelogger: well, he was esp. against snapshots. He wants to always be 1 month behind, not shift between 1day and 1month all the time
[03:29] <apachelogger> though tbh runtime stuff is a qa nightmare anyway ^^
[03:29] <yofel> the same point was made for security updates that depend on a newer lib
[03:31] <yofel> which really only works if you rebuild stuff for rolling-stable as cherry picking binaries simply won't work
[03:31] <yofel> and you have one more release to provide security updates for
[03:31] <apachelogger> as I see it what you cut off in 'backlog' support overhead you get in horizontal overhad
[03:32] <apachelogger> in a previous job of mine we had basically a rolling release kind of thing and for the sake of QA we basically rebuilt the entire archive *at least* once a day
[03:32] <apachelogger> and at that point we did not even have security stuff to handle
[03:33] <yofel> ...
[03:34] <apachelogger> as I see it you either risk temporary screwery in the rolling and hope you can react fast enough to fix it or you prevent it by chaining autoQA until you are confident this will not break stuff (like say it will remove half the system because of a wrong dep)
[03:35] <apachelogger> latter of courese requires quite a bit of juice ^^
[03:36] <apachelogger> and as far as autoQA goes IMHO you'd want binarystaging -> optin testing -> binarystaging -> rolling
[03:36] <apachelogger> in tersm of pocket movement
[03:36] <yofel> why binarystaging twice?
[03:37] <apachelogger> because of the case where X and Y get staged, and build but Y fails QA, so you want to restage X
[03:38] <apachelogger> in particular you'd actually want to compare the binary results of staging1 and staging2 and only pass the package into rolling if they match!
[03:38] <apachelogger> however out of experience I can tell you that this is not practical ^^
[03:38] <apachelogger> software often embeds timestamps in the binary
[03:38] <apachelogger> in fact gcc does so via the buildid
[03:39] <apachelogger> but think amarok ... it contains the data it was built in the about dialog
[03:41] <apachelogger> so practically you stage twice to ensure that whatever happened between staging1+testing and now did not break it
[03:42] <yofel> I get the restaging point, that makes prefect sense. But I'm not too sure why you would even try the binary comparison
[03:42] <apachelogger> runtime crap
[03:42] <apachelogger> as I said it is almost impossible to pick that up reliably
[03:43] <apachelogger> so we looked into the simplest of things.. check if the binaries are the same, even though that really turned out to be the most complicated of things ^^
[03:43] <apachelogger> ah, also space reasons
[03:44] <apachelogger> if the builds are all the same you only need to archive the binaries once
[03:45] <apachelogger> which was kind of a big concern given that the entire package pool was rebuilt regularly, so there was massive amounts of binary duplication
[03:49] <apachelogger> anyway
[03:49] <apachelogger> for sheytan's new lightdm thingy we need a qml plugin
[03:50] <apachelogger> fortunately that plugin will only expose one already existing class
[03:50] <apachelogger> so yay
[03:50] <apachelogger> sort of ^^
[03:50] <yofel> anyway's the key word. It's almost 5 am and I'm falling asleep on the keyboard, so good night folks
[03:50] <apachelogger> no clue how he wants to make that coherent with plymouth though
[03:50] <apachelogger> the background is all sorts of complicated
[03:50] <apachelogger> (can't even get it to scale the same in lightdm and ksplash right  now -.-)
[03:51] <apachelogger> yofel: oh, yes night
[03:51]  * apachelogger should go to bed too ^^
[03:55] <zequence> One simple reason why I haven't posted more on the ubuntu-devel mail list is simply because it's moderated
[03:56] <zequence> That's a little annoying actually
[06:16] <mfraz74> B
[06:18] <mfraz74> How do I enable "set date and time automatically" in adjust date and time? I keep gettiing the error "Unable to authenticate/execute the action: 6,
[06:53] <highvoltage> 21:54 < ScottK> non-canonical stakeholders other than Kubuntu are all muppets
[06:53] <highvoltage> really? :(
[06:53] <ScottK> I haven't heard much out of anyone else.
[06:54] <highvoltage> I posted a bunch of harsh stuff against the project to ubuntu-devel yesterday
[06:54] <highvoltage> and made some private mails to some folk at canonical.
[06:54] <ScottK> It's possible I was over generalizing.
[06:55] <highvoltage> but they just try to wash it off with some vague corporate bullshit political generic empty responses
[06:57] <ScottK> I wish I knew who of the Canonical people actually believes what they are saying and how many are staying on message because they've been told to.
[06:58] <highvoltage> well you have people like steve and colin who believe in what they do and I believe what they say, but I can also tell that they're spending lots of brain resources working on rationalising it and trying to align things to keep it true for them
[11:53] <apachelogger> sheytan: http://wstaw.org/m/2013/03/02/plasma-desktopJZ2250.png
[13:01]  * smartboyhw says hi
[13:01] <smartboyhw> Sorry yofel, forgotten to do `bzr add` yesterday:P
[13:01]  * smartboyhw proposes an immediate fix
[13:02] <smartboyhw> BTW when did we have a trello board!?
[13:02] <yofel> since a few days ago
[13:02] <yofel> ^^
[13:04] <yofel> how does this happen...
[13:04] <yofel> W: kate-data: icon-size-and-directory-name-mismatch usr/share/icons/oxygen/16x16/actions/debug.png 22x22
[13:05] <smartboyhw> yofel, what the.....
[13:05] <yofel> I added a full blown lintian check on all kde sc packages. The results are... interesting
[13:05] <smartboyhw> Uh
[13:06] <smartboyhw> yofel, v
[13:06] <smartboyhw> s/v/https://code.launchpad.net/~smartboyhw/ubuntu/raring/homerun/0.2.1-0ubuntu2-added-watch-file/+merge/151359/
[13:06] <kubotu> smartboyhw meant: "yofel, https:"
[13:06] <smartboyhw> LOL
[13:06] <smartboyhw> https://code.launchpad.net/~smartboyhw/ubuntu/raring/homerun/0.2.1-0ubuntu2-added-watch-file/+merge/151359
[13:07] <smartboyhw> BTW Riddell + yofel you want me to update Skrooge to 1.6.0 ?
[13:07] <smartboyhw> Or is it a debian-sync package?
[13:07] <yofel> I forgot what that was
[13:07] <smartboyhw> And BTW where's the Rekonq merge!?
[13:08] <yofel> skrooge 1.6 is in debian experimental
[13:08] <smartboyhw> yofel, request merge then:P
[13:08] <smartboyhw> s/merge/sync/
[13:08] <kubotu> smartboyhw meant: "yofel, request sync then:P"
[13:08] <yofel> go ahead
[13:09] <smartboyhw> yofel, any kubotu command for this!? (LOL)
[13:09] <yofel> nope, but requestsync from ubuntu-dev-tools
[13:11] <yofel> homerun uploaded, thanks
[13:11] <smartboyhw> yofel, thx
[13:12] <smartboyhw> Got the bug filed now :)
[13:12] <smartboyhw> Bug 1139955
[13:12] <smartboyhw> How come I don't know about this nice feature?!!?
[13:13] <smartboyhw> kde-runtime failed
[13:13] <smartboyhw> And I can't access the Build Log, "Processing failed"
[13:14] <yofel> try again, it'll fetch the log then
[13:15] <yofel> launchpad has hiccups currently :/
[13:15] <smartboyhw> kde-runtime went busted because of kate
[13:16] <smartboyhw> s/kate/katepart in kate/
[13:16] <kubotu> smartboyhw meant: "kde-runtime went busted because of katepart in kate"
[13:16] <yofel> yeah, and kate failed on pykde4
[13:16] <smartboyhw> The kstar i386 one is weird
[13:17] <yofel> not really, though I haven't seen a DSO link error in quite a while
[13:17] <smartboyhw> yofel, that's good (or bad?)
[13:18] <yofel> well, it'll need a buildsystem fix
[13:18] <yofel> probably best to check what upstream did there
[13:20] <yofel> hm
[13:21] <yofel> except that they didn't change a thing between 4.10.0 and .1
[13:21] <yofel> (except some i18n strings)
[13:22] <smartboyhw> smokeqt failed because libqscinitilla2-9 wasn't there
[13:22] <smartboyhw> The -proposed version for 2.7 is still in -proposed
[13:22] <smartboyhw> with build errors for almost all architecture
[13:22] <smartboyhw> hmm
[13:23] <yofel> ninjas has -proposed enabled
[13:23] <smartboyhw> Bah, the symbols went haywire
[13:23]  * smartboyhw wonders will ScottK fix it
[13:27] <yofel> he will, but not until he's awake ^^
[13:27] <smartboyhw> :)
[13:38] <Quintasan> amd builders y u so busy
[13:39] <yofel> what are you waiting for?
[13:43] <smartboyhw> Quintasan, LOL
[13:43] <Quintasan> yofel: telepathy dailies
[13:43] <yofel> ah
[13:44]  * yofel uploads more builds to ninjas to postpone those even more
[13:44] <smartboyhw> LOL
[14:14] <smartboyhw> Oh yofel went MIA
[14:34] <BluesKaj> Howdy all
[14:34] <soee> hiho
[14:34] <smartboyhw> Hey BluesKaj
[14:35] <BluesKaj> hi soee , smartboyhw
[14:57] <smartboyhw> Welcome back yofel__
[14:57] <yofel__> more or less
[14:58] <smartboyhw> yofel__, ?
[14:59] <yofel__> the core died because postgresql got stuck on I/O
[14:59] <shadeslayer> \o
[14:59] <shadeslayer> lul
[14:59] <smartboyhw> yofel__, uh
[14:59] <smartboyhw> Heyas shadeslayer
[15:00] <shadeslayer> I will most likely be out till Tuesday or Wednesday
[15:00] <yofel__> well, Quintasan is here so it's kind of up again
[15:00] <shadeslayer> replacement hdd still isn't here
[15:00] <smartboyhw> yofel__, XD
[15:00] <shadeslayer> silly repair center
[15:09] <smartboyhw> yofel, so you got postgresql back?
[15:09] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: btw I got it to work with juju
[15:10] <shadeslayer> it = mumble
[15:10] <yofel> finally....
[15:11] <yofel> smartboyhw: yeah, the autovaccum process killed it in the first place and quassel needed a bit to catch up after the DB was running again
[15:11] <smartboyhw> yofel, congrats
[15:11] <smartboyhw> yofel, anytime to deal with https://code.launchpad.net/~smartboyhw/ubuntu/raring/rekonq/2.2-0ubuntu1-1st-version/+merge/151262 ?
[15:12] <yofel> soon
[15:12] <smartboyhw> yofel, thanks:)
[15:23] <shadeslayer> yofel: anything new regarding the rolling release stuff ?
[15:23] <shadeslayer> gmail is still munching my emails
[15:24] <yofel> fix gmail
[15:24] <yofel> but not really that much, it's pretty much ended up becoming a "is pocket X implementable" and "what the hell does monthly snapshot mean" discusson
[15:25] <shadeslayer> heh
[15:25] <yofel> read backlog here from last night. That's more useful than the thread
[15:25] <shadeslayer> I am getting emails which are now a couple of days old on the ML
[15:26] <yofel> see, you're already on a stable rolling release
[15:26] <shadeslayer> Hahah
[15:32] <yofel> smartboyhw: btw. I'll deal with the merge now, but it's probably best if you put it on the pad the next time so people will see it easily
[15:32] <smartboyhw> yofel, OK
[15:35] <yofel> Bazaar has encountered an internal error.
[15:35] <yofel> yaaaay *-.-
[15:35] <yofel> MalformedTransform: Tree transform is malformed [('versioning no contents', 'new-105')]
[15:35] <yofel> wth
[15:38] <yofel> smartboyhw: what's up with this? http://paste.kde.org/685496
[15:39] <smartboyhw> yofel, uh?
[15:39] <yofel> * Refreshed all patches. -> why?
[15:40] <smartboyhw> yofel, I remembered one day I was packaging and the build failed because there were offsets in patches. So I renewed them all.
[15:41] <yofel> the build will never fail on offsets only on fuzz
[15:41] <yofel> please don't refresh patches when it's not necessary
[15:41] <smartboyhw> yofel, OK
[15:41] <smartboyhw> So should I redo it again!?
[15:42] <yofel> i'll just revert that part
[15:42]  * smartboyhw has a stupid thought that fuzz = offsets (stupid me)
[15:42] <yofel> the rest looks fine
[15:43] <smartboyhw> yofel, OK.
[15:43]  * smartboyhw bangs himself onto the wall
[15:43] <smartboyhw> Good night!
[15:44] <yofel> no need to be that strict ^^
[16:25] <yofel> Riddell: any ETA on the new ubiquity in the archive?
[16:36] <Riddell> yofel: I've not uploaded it, do you think it should be?
[16:37] <ScottK> Working on it qscintialla2.
[16:37] <yofel> anything major blocking it? last I heard from agateau was "be back on 10th", which is post-FF
[16:37] <ScottK> Unfortunately it's looking like a total debian/rules redo.
[16:39] <Riddell> yofel: there's a couple more branches to be merged lp:~agateau/ubiquity/slideshow-fixes and lp:~agateau/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu/sync-with-ubiquity-kde
[16:39] <Riddell> yofel: but there's other people working on it too
[16:39] <Riddell> so I was leaving it up to them to upload
[16:39] <Riddell> ScottK: ouch, why?
[16:39] <yofel> ah ok. Those should probably be merged first
[16:40] <ScottK> Need to use the symbolshelper at build time.
[16:40] <ScottK> Not just for post-processing.
[16:41] <ScottK> That means I have to pass --with=pkgkde-symbolshelper to debhelper and I've no idea how to do that on none dh 7 tiny rules.
[16:46] <yofel> ScottK: all that addon seems to do is prepend /usr/share/pkg-kde-tools/bin to $PATH
[18:37] <apachelogger> sheytan: pingy
[18:38] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: also know how to deploy config&database?
[18:53] <apachelogger> hum
[18:53] <apachelogger> yofel: is t just me or is aryia still default wally on raring?
[18:53]  * apachelogger thought he synced the iso before install
[18:53] <Riddell> it's just you
[19:05] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: I have an idea
[19:06] <shadeslayer> I vaguely remember where it keeps the db , we can just scp it into the machine
[19:06] <shadeslayer> and then scp it back before destroying the machine
[19:08] <shadeslayer> I get to install raring again ... bleu
[19:08] <shadeslayer> *bleh
[19:12] <apachelogger> Riddell: installed from an outdated image it seems
[19:27] <apachelogger>             QDir dir(path);
[19:27] <apachelogger>             dir.cdUp();
[19:27] <apachelogger> Oo
[19:46]  * apachelogger writes library to handle wallpapers in qml :S
[19:46] <apachelogger> Riddell: what do you think: http://wstaw.org/m/2013/03/02/plasma-desktopJZ2250.png
[19:46] <apachelogger> actual impl of http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Vg8r4E0SWdA/USqdeYRhs6I/AAAAAAAACNI/b_UauHZ-KdM/s1600/more-users-test-sys-buttons-active-logo.png
[19:50]  * yofel indulges in the crashiness of nepomuk
[19:50] <yofel> esp. fun is that it crashes on m_eventMonitor->isDiskSpaceLow()
[19:52] <soee> apachelogger, dont you think it would be good idea to add transparent background "stripe" at the bottom of screen so the monochorme icons would go on it ? consider situation where user change background and it will be white in this screen section
[19:53] <soee> or there wont be option to change background image
[19:53] <soee> ?
[19:54] <yofel> apachelogger: if that has some kind of fade in animation to ksplash, ship it
[19:54] <apachelogger> yofel: huh?
[19:55] <apachelogger> soee: no option
[19:55] <apachelogger> FWIW that is also an issue left unaddressed in the official lightdm themes
[19:55] <Riddell> apachelogger: for lightdm theme?
[19:55] <yofel> well, I don't want to go from monochrome grey to blinding blue-violet without any kind of transition
[19:55] <apachelogger> basically if you use a background with color from the oposite end of what is default it will make stuff ugly
[19:55] <yofel> that would look urgh
[19:55] <Riddell> apachelogger: I think it's cool but how to jutify that against a don't-change-upstream policy?
[19:56] <apachelogger> e.g. text unreadable
[19:56] <Riddell> apachelogger: does it fit in with colourful wallpaper?
[19:56] <apachelogger> Riddell: upstream did not manage to create a non-wallpaper background for lightdm/ksplash for 4.10
[19:56] <Riddell> is a wallpaper background bad?
[19:56] <apachelogger> however upstream plans that for 4.11
[19:56] <Riddell> I thought it's nice to have them matching
[19:57] <soee> 2. i would put timer oat the bottom also (left side) and icons wher ethey are - just my opinion :)
[19:57] <apachelogger> Riddell: yes it is bad
[19:58] <xnox> ScottK: looking at /usr/share/perl5/Debian/Debhelper/Sequence/pkgkde_symbolshelper.pm all it does is `export PATH=/usr/share/pkg-kde-tools/bin:$PATH`
[19:58] <apachelogger> the visual drama of an actual wallpaper looks silly/stupid when you stick stuff on top of it
[19:58] <xnox> if it detects that it can be used.
[19:58] <xnox> ScottK: so for non-tiny rules just add that export at the top and you are done.
[19:58] <apachelogger> i.e. that is why from an artistic POV the default-background policy of plasmoids makes sense
[19:59] <apachelogger> there is only a very limited amount of UI elements/compositions that will not look bad on a wallpaper
[19:59] <xnox> yofel: Riddell: we can upload ubiquity any time, but yeah i still see two unmerged branches from agateau & there is a few branches of my own that I want to merge up.
[20:00] <yofel> sure, I was just curious where it's at. If there's still stuff waiting to be merged then do that first
[20:01]  * yofel wonders what gtk-update-icon-cache is writing hundreds of MB of data onto his disk for @_@
[20:03] <apachelogger> sounds broken
[20:03] <apachelogger> unless you have a bazillion icons
[20:06] <yofel> 481M    /usr/share/icons/
[20:06] <yofel> not really
[20:09]  * Riddell cheers as lamarque applies an ubuntu patch to plasma networkmangement
[20:17] <kubotu> ::qt-bugs:: [1140596] package libqt4-dbg (not installed) failed to install/upgrade: cannot copy extracted data f... @ https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1140596 (by Fernando Dominguez)
[20:18] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: scripty for scp would be good I guess
[20:26] <sheytan_> apachelogger: ping
[20:40] <apachelogger> sheytan: pong
[21:24] <apachelogger> sheytan: piiiiiiing
[21:24] <yofel> connection timeout
[21:29] <apachelogger> http://paste.kde.org/685778/
[21:33] <yofel> magic
[22:08] <ScottK> xnox: Thanks
[22:25] <apachelogger> this sheytan has a really broken quassel
[22:26] <apachelogger> would not have happened with konversation :S
[22:26] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: ping hello hello hello ping
[22:27] <apachelogger> nobody wants to talk to me today
[22:27] <apachelogger> :S
[22:28]  * yofel gives pykde4 hacking a try
[22:38] <yofel> do kconf_update scripts need to be executable?
[22:38] <apachelogger> yes
[22:39] <yofel> W: kdelibs5-data: script-not-executable usr/share/kde4/apps/kconf_update/kcookiescfg.pl
[22:39] <apachelogger> well
[22:39] <apachelogger> lemme rephrase
[22:39] <apachelogger> they need to unless an interpreter is defined in the config :P
[22:40] <yofel> ah ok, that makes sense
[22:40] <yofel> then this is ok
[22:40] <apachelogger> i.e. you can Script=foo.pl,perl in the updateconfig
[22:40]  * yofel whitelists
[22:40] <apachelogger> yofel: if that is the only one with the warning I'd simply change it to +x upstream
[22:40] <apachelogger> i.e. there is no loss in making it exectuable to fit in with the rest of the stuff
[22:41] <yofel> I rather don't want to mess with kdelibs in its current state
[23:00] <kubotu> ::workspace-bugs:: [1082394] krunner freezes @ https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1082394 (by Manuel López-Ibáñez)
[23:42] <apachelogger> yofel: ignore plz
[23:42] <yofel> zZzZzzzz...
[23:42] <apachelogger> ^^
[23:42] <apachelogger> goodtime you can talk to
[23:42] <apachelogger> but that troll should go away
[23:43] <apachelogger> not really listening anyway
[23:44]  * apachelogger wonders where he left off 3 hours ago when he started gettign distracted Oo
[23:45] <yofel> you were fishing for sheytan
[23:45] <apachelogger> yofel: and then I told you stop feeding the troll :P
[23:45] <apachelogger> also sheytan is awol it seems
[23:45] <yofel> well, I'll stop now
[23:45] <apachelogger> we should have a serious talk with him ^^
[23:46] <apachelogger> on a related note though ... qml components lib ready
[23:46] <apachelogger> primary use WallpaperImage{} to do size-baesd image resolution on plasma wallpaper packages to be used in lightdm+ksplash
[23:46] <apachelogger> i.e. that should go upstream in the long run
[23:49] <apachelogger> oh
[23:49] <apachelogger> I was working on the packaging
[23:49] <apachelogger> harrr
[23:50]  * yofel curses dh_install
[23:51]  * apachelogger hands yofel DH_VERBOSE=1 :P
[23:53]  * yofel swtiches to curse python
[23:57] <apachelogger> https://code.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-members/kubuntu-qtquick1-components/trunk


[06:40] <Kilos> morning all of ya
[06:41] <gremble> good morning Kilos
[06:51] <superfly> hi Kilos
[06:51] <Kilos> hi superfly
[07:16] <Squirm> hello
[09:03] <ThatGraemeGuy> 'lo
[09:37] <bushtech> 'lo
[09:38] <StonedAlchemist> Eh Oh
[09:38] <StonedAlchemist> Tellytubbies :)
[10:07] <Kilos> hi ThatGraemeGuy
[16:30] <gwood> hi everyone, does anyone have any experience with tsocks on Ubuntu, I've never been able to get it to work. I have to use the built-in socks support in Firefox
[16:35] <Kilos> hi gwood
[16:35] <gwood> hey Kilos
[16:35] <Kilos> patience
[16:36] <Kilos> everyone has been quiet today
[16:36] <gwood> guess they have dates on a Saturday night :'(
[16:36] <Kilos> lol
[16:37] <Kilos> i dunno about tsocks i only use those that go on your feet
[17:47] <Kilos> hmm...
[17:56] <superfly> tsocks?
[17:56] <superfly> Maaz: google for tsocks
[17:56] <Maaz> superfly: "tsocks - Transparent SOCKS Proxying Library" http://tsocks.sourceforge.net/ :: "tsocks - Transparent SOCKS Proxying Library - SourceForge" http://tsocks.sourceforge.net/about.php :: "tsocks - Browse Files at SourceForge.net" http://sourceforge.net/projects/tsocks/files/ :: "tsocks | SourceForge.net" http://sourceforge.net/projects/tsocks/ :: "tsocks(8) -
[17:56] <Maaz> Linux man page" http://linux.die.net/man/8/tsocks :: "tsocks(1) - Linux man page" http:/…
[17:58] <superfly> between 6 and 8 is "kids eat, bath and bed" time
[17:58] <superfly> don't have time for dates anymore
[17:58] <Kilos> lol
[17:58] <Kilos> he has gone off now
[17:58] <superfly> a date is when all the kids go to bed on time and we can spend 5 minutes together before heading to bed ourselves because we're so tired ;-)
[17:59] <Kilos> lol
[18:14] <Kilos> superfly  are we safe from that new bash bug? i see it attacks linux servers
[18:15] <Kilos> i forget its name now
[18:15] <inetpro> haha
[18:15] <inetpro> good evening
[18:15] <Kilos> hello inetpro
[18:15] <superfly> as long as you've updated in the last few days you should be fine
[18:15] <superfly> hi inetpro
[18:15] <inetpro> bash bug attacking servers? since when?
[18:15] <Kilos> cool ty superfly
[18:15] <Kilos> aw i deleted the email let me try find it
[18:17] <inetpro> anybody who uses bash for scripting should be shot and killed
[18:17]  * superfly keels over dead
[18:17] <Kilos> lol
[18:17] <Kilos> just the bad peeps man
[18:17] <inetpro> superfly: not to worry, even I have done it :-)
[18:17] <Kilos> aha
[18:18] <Kilos> well it was just a matter of time before linux was attacked
[18:18] <inetpro> but it's a bad idea, especially under current circumstances
[18:18] <Kilos> by a linux bad user
[18:19] <Kilos> i thought it was in one of the mybroadband emails today
[18:19]  * inetpro is surprised to see so many files using the bash shebang in /usr
[18:20] <inetpro> Kilos: just keep your stuff up to date man
[18:21] <Kilos> http://mybroadband.co.za/news/security/110608-hackers-exploit-shellshock-bug.html
[18:21] <Kilos> yip will do and gufw set to on with block all incoming and allow outgoing
[18:26] <Kilos> i tried to stay awake last night to get kubuntu 64bit but was too weak
[18:28] <Kilos> i know its all relative in your opinion inetpro  but i need to understand as well
[18:28] <Kilos> will kde 64bit be faster than kde 32bit with 4g ran on here
[18:29] <Kilos> if it is i can drop unity for good then someone else can help noobs
[18:31] <Kilos> i ask because my 64bit unity is quite a lot faster than 32bit kde here atm
[18:40] <inetpro> Kilos: difficult to tell, I don't know the answer
[18:40] <Kilos> haha
[18:40] <Kilos> check this speed
[18:40] <Kilos> 100% [13 Packages 27,4 kB/318 kB 9%] [Waiting for headers]       3 051 kB/s
[18:41] <Kilos> how fast is that hey
[18:41] <inetpro> in fact I'm about to finish making backups this eveing and doing the upgrade to 64bit myself
[18:41] <Kilos> hmm...
[18:41] <Kilos> ok ill try stay up
[18:42] <inetpro> about time I move up to 14.04
[18:43] <Kilos> ai! im darem there already but just got the 32bit so i can use it on other older pcs too
[18:43] <Kilos> but i think its time to choose between either unity or kde
[18:44] <Kilos> having both and also 32bit and 64bit is too much data
[18:44] <inetpro> ai!
[18:45]  * inetpro is happy with KDE
[18:45] <Kilos> yeah i like as well, but its slower and missing a few things
[18:45] <inetpro> whether it's Fedora, Debian or any other distro doesn't really matter all that much
[18:45] <inetpro> as long as it's KDE
[18:46] <Kilos> ive been on ubuntu since i started so not going to change distros now
[18:50] <Kilos> lol theblazehen  keeps trying to get me to use arch
[18:57] <inetpro> arch is for those who have lots of time and who are not afraid of a steep learning curve
[18:58] <Kilos> ai!
[18:58] <Kilos> no more
[19:02] <Kilos> i wish there were some hardware peeps here
[19:07] <inetpro> what is that?
[19:07] <Kilos> peeps like me man
[19:07] <Kilos> but clever on top
[19:08] <Kilos> someone that will find where to get samsung drive platters
[19:08] <inetpro> haha
[19:09] <Kilos> those peeps dont like selling platters separate
[19:09] <Kilos> but they sell the reader thingie
[19:12] <inetpro> did you read my posting about booting from an iso from hdd?
[19:13] <Kilos> nope where
[19:14] <inetpro> Check out @inetpro's Tweet: https://twitter.com/inetpro/status/515786485249744896
[19:14] <Kilos> eish you tweet peeps
[19:14] <inetpro> :-)
[19:15] <inetpro> that is very handy!
[19:15] <Kilos> why didnt you just give the bitly thing
[19:15] <Kilos> grrrr
[19:16] <inetpro> Uh, am currently on mobile phone
[19:16] <Kilos> wow that sounds good
[19:16] <inetpro> Was easier to press share
[19:16] <Kilos> lazy
[19:16] <inetpro> busy making backups
[19:16] <Kilos> oh sorry old peeps get like that
[19:17] <inetpro> am on Kubuntu 14.04 live
[19:17] <Kilos> see also kde hasnt got a good backup tool like gnome
[19:18] <Kilos> the backup in unity rocks
[19:18] <Kilos> i forget its name
[19:18] <inetpro> no man, I've just been lazy... haven't backed up for a long time
[19:18] <Kilos> oh ya deja-dup
[19:19]  * inetpro don't need anything other than rsync
[19:19] <Kilos> deja-dup is really good but dont work on kde
[19:20] <Kilos> eish eish eish
[19:20] <Kilos> have you ever tried formatting 1.9TB with win7
[19:20] <Kilos> sjoe gonna take 2 days look like
[19:20] <inetpro> no
[19:21] <inetpro> make smaller partitions man
[19:21] <Kilos> nope win7 is on the first 100g and i want to try get ubuntu onto the rest
[19:22] <Kilos> that same scrap 2TB drive
[19:22] <Kilos> on and off with it for about 2 years now
[19:23] <inetpro> sounds like you love putting all your eggs in a single basket
[19:23] <Kilos> nope im gonna push for a replacement 1TB on monday
[19:24] <inetpro> you want less trouble, split up your hdd into smaller chunks
[19:24] <Kilos> ive gotta try get it clean first and get it to accept linux
[19:25] <Kilos> it has refused to take any linux up till now, ive just zeroed it with testdisk and installed win7
[19:28] <Kilos> and you should know i always make /, /boot, /home and /storage partitions
[19:29] <Kilos> i used to have a low level format thing but cant remember what it was so cant find it
[19:29] <Kilos> hehe
[19:29] <inetpro> yes but you don't need massive partitions like 1.5tb
[19:29] <Kilos> nope atm i need a /home of at least 600g
[19:30] <inetpro> why?
[19:30] <Kilos> data recovery on a 500g uses lots of space
[19:30] <inetpro> make a data partition for that
[19:30] <Kilos> you think i bought a 1TB drive because ive got money to burn?
[19:31] <inetpro> yes
[19:31] <Kilos> eish
[19:31] <Kilos> man then i need to know how to tell testdisk foremost and scalpel where to save the saved files to
[19:32] <Kilos> with a big /home i dont need to work that out as well
[19:33] <Kilos> isnt a data partition and a storage partition the same thing?
[19:33] <inetpro> ai
[19:37] <inetpro> actually I am backing up more than I need to this evening
[19:37] <Kilos> good
[19:37] <Kilos> better safe than sorry
[19:38] <inetpro> banking up all my partitions
[19:46] <inetpro> ok, done
[19:46] <Kilos> nice and fast hey
[19:46] <inetpro> ready to start installation
[19:46] <Kilos> rsync rocks
[20:02] <Kilos> ohi ThatGraemeGuy
[20:02] <Kilos> oh just his server reconnecting
[20:03] <inetpro> hmm
[20:03] <inetpro> not sure it's such a good idea to install while booting iso from same hdd
[20:04] <inetpro> seems slow here
[20:04] <Kilos> ai!
[20:05] <inetpro> system wanting to unmount the partition with the iso on it
[20:05] <Kilos> eish
[20:05] <Kilos> do it the old way and put the iso on a stick man
[20:05] <Kilos> unetbootin
[20:06] <Kilos> works kiff on kde and gnome stuffs
[20:06] <inetpro> yaya, will do if this really doesn't work
[20:06] <Kilos> lol
[20:07] <inetpro> says detecting file systems... 100% for too long
[20:08] <inetpro> thinking maybe I should just kill it
[20:09] <Kilos> ya
[20:09] <inetpro> ai!
[20:09] <Kilos> anything that doesnt run smoothly has some snags in it
[20:10] <inetpro> need to figure it out though
[20:10] <inetpro> there has to be a logical reason
[20:11] <Kilos> ok
[20:12] <inetpro> and there has to be a way around it as well
[20:13] <inetpro> next time
[20:13] <Kilos> haha
[20:13] <Kilos> do it the old way then think about what is wrong here and with some luck you will forget about it
[20:14] <inetpro> can't wait to see kde upgraded for now, time is running out
[20:14] <Kilos> oh there is only night surfer data after midnight hey
[20:18] <inetpro> I know
[20:18] <Kilos> i didnt so got screwed
[20:19] <inetpro> we will have to become morning peeps to exploit that properly now
[20:19] <Kilos> yeah but getting an iso over 1g in size takes a while
[20:19] <Kilos> you never can be sure of the speed
[20:26] <inetpro> ok, looking better now
[20:27] <inetpro> installing the old way from USB
[20:27] <Kilos> good
[20:36] <Kilos> oh my i forgot about at
[20:40] <Kilos> oh my wb hibana
[20:40] <hibana> ehlo
[20:41] <Kilos> lol
[20:41] <hibana> actually have an old iso here, so gonna take time to bring up to date
[20:41] <Kilos> eish
[20:42] <Kilos> didnt you wget 14.04.1
[20:42] <hibana> first thing is to get the video driver sorted
[20:42] <hibana> no
[20:42] <Kilos> oi
[20:42] <hibana> still need to load the Nvidia thing after all this time
[20:43] <Kilos> 331?
[20:43] <hibana> yep
[20:43] <Kilos> thats not too difficult with aptitude
[20:43] <hibana> on 30% now
[20:44] <Kilos> lol have you ever had the black screen after an install
[20:44] <Kilos> with the need to disable the effects thing
[20:44] <hibana> I get big fat black and white spots by default
[20:45] <hibana> need to boot with the nomodeset option
[20:45] <Kilos> try alt+tab+f12
[20:45] <hibana> uh, why?
[20:45] <Kilos> then disable desktop effects
[20:46] <hibana> alt+tab+f12 sounds weird
[20:46] <Kilos> then after installing nvidia you activate then again
[20:46] <Kilos> superfly  it was alt+tab+f12 hey
[20:46] <hibana> I;m fine with setting nomodeset at boot time
[20:46] <Kilos> or was it ctrl+alt+f12
[20:49] <hibana> actually just had to do that once today when booting from the ISO
[20:51] <Kilos> i need help please
[20:52] <Kilos> at 00.05 wget -c link
[20:52] <Kilos> is that right
[20:52] <hibana> damn... gonna have to reboot
[20:52] <Kilos> lol go for it
[20:52] <hibana> messed up before nvidia was finished
[20:53] <Kilos> oi
[20:56] <hibana> hmm...
[20:56] <Kilos> wb hibana
[20:57]  * hibana kinda surprised
[20:57] <Kilos> why?
[20:57] <hibana> looks like nvidia is actually fully installed
[20:57] <Kilos> lol
[20:57] <hibana> got me proper resolution and all
[20:57] <Kilos> nice
[20:58] <hibana> now going to run the update
[20:59] <hibana> ahh
[20:59] <hibana> The following packages have unmet dependencies:
[20:59] <hibana>  xserver-xorg-video-all : Depends: xserver-xorg-video-nouveau but it is not installed
[21:00] <Kilos> update/upgrade fixes that
[21:00] <hibana> fixed
[21:00] <hibana> now
[21:00] <hibana> Need to get 402 MB of archives.
[21:00] <Kilos> eina
[21:03] <superfly> Kilos: ctrl+shift+F12 maybe?
[21:04] <Kilos> ive only had to do it once so not sure anymore
[21:05] <Kilos> but that sounds right ya
[21:07] <hibana> Kilos: that's why I just purchased another 2+1
[21:07] <Kilos> lol
[21:08] <hibana> actually should wait for just another few minutes but won't get through the month anyway
[21:08] <Kilos> ai!
[21:08] <Kilos> only 50 mins
[21:09] <Kilos> lekker with you here im still awake so will get the 64bit 14.04.1 iso just now
[21:09] <hibana> better to be prepared
[21:09]  * hibana going to be out for a sec
[21:09] <Kilos> ok
[21:12] <Kilos> peer got him
[21:14] <Kilos> wb
[21:15] <hibana> ty
[21:20] <hibana> Kilos: btw, my issue has nothing to do with desktop effects
[21:20] <Kilos> oh
[21:20] <hibana> desktop effects are pefect as long as the nvidia driver is loaded
[21:27] <hibana> ai!
[21:27] <hibana> already starting to eat into the new bundle now
[21:28] <Kilos> eeek
[21:28] <Kilos> you should have waited man
[21:29] <hibana> no it's fine
[21:31] <hibana> hope to be finished by midnight
[21:32] <hibana> will probably go little over but can't stay up too long
[21:32] <hibana> so far things looking good here
[21:32] <Kilos> good
[21:33] <Kilos> then another reboot
[21:34] <hibana> most important for now is to get firefox and quassel up to date
[21:34] <Kilos> lol you and firefox
[21:34] <hibana> firefox is a winner
[21:34] <Kilos> quassel i can understand
[21:35]  * hibana supports mozilla all the way
[21:35] <hibana> they know what is meant with freedom
[21:36] <Kilos> for me opera-browser works fine
[21:36] <Kilos> faster and less data used on updating
[21:36] <hibana> you can has it
[21:37] <Kilos> ty
[21:37] <Kilos> i dont do fancy things
[21:37] <Kilos> hi gwoodford
[21:37] <hibana> hi gwoodford
[21:38] <Kilos> Maaz  google tsocks
[21:38] <Maaz> Kilos: "tsocks - Transparent SOCKS Proxying Library" http://tsocks.sourceforge.net/ :: "tsocks - Transparent SOCKS Proxying Library - SourceForge" http://tsocks.sourceforge.net/about.php :: "tsocks - Browse Files at SourceForge.net" http://sourceforge.net/projects/tsocks/files/ :: "tsocks | SourceForge.net" http://sourceforge.net/projects/tsocks/ :: "tsocks(8) -
[21:38] <Maaz> Linux man page" http://linux.die.net/man/8/tsocks :: "tsocks(1) - Linux man page" http://li…
[21:39] <hibana> Kilos: forget about tsocks, you don't need it
[21:39] <Kilos> not me man
[21:39] <Kilos> gwood
[21:39] <gwoodford> hi, yes, i was asking about tsocks
[21:39] <gwoodford> lost connection for a while
[21:40] <hibana> gwoodford: why do you need tsocks?
[21:40] <Kilos> yeah we noticed
[21:40] <Kilos> dont hose links help you?
[21:45] <Kilos> 15 mins more then wget
[21:46] <hibana> ai!
[21:46] <gwoodford> hibana, i have a laptop without a ethernet connection, so using a raspberry pi, I don't have a wifi dongle that supports AP mode, so need to use my cellphone as a wifi hotspot that my laptop and raspberry pi connect to
[21:46] <hibana> Kilos: man crontab
[21:46] <gwoodford> I know it is a very exotic setup, but it works, i'm buying a wifi dongle that supports AP mode
[21:47] <hibana> hmm... sounds interesting but still don't see why you need tsocks
[21:47] <Kilos> eish
[21:47] <Kilos> thats as bad as man at
[21:48] <gwoodford> it is just a pain, because only applications that support socks proxies work, i tried even using ubuntu's global network proxy settings and they don't have an effect either
[21:49] <gwoodford> hibana, i cant use apt-get or certain applications that don't support socks proxies within the app, i'm sure there are other ways, but surely the tsocks stuff would work?
[21:49] <hibana> surely you don't need a proxy at all?
[21:50] <hibana> using your android phone?
[21:50] <gwoodford> hibana, i'm using an Android phone, but the internet connection is not from my phone
[21:50] <hibana> yikes
[21:51] <hibana> where do you get the internets from?
[21:51] <Kilos> where is it from
[21:51] <Kilos> hehe
[21:51] <Kilos> free wifi
[21:51] <gwoodford> Internet -> raspberry pi -> android phone hotspot -> laptop (the SSH tunnel is between my laptop and raspberry pi)
[21:52] <hibana> Kilos: my update downloads are done.... busy installing
[21:52] <Kilos> cool
[21:52] <gwoodford> raspberry pi has an ethernet connection to get internet, and wifi dongle to connect to my android phone
[21:52] <Kilos> ive got all the unity packages saved so can rsync them
[21:53] <hibana> gwoodford: yes but still, where do you get the internet from? what connection?
[21:54] <gwoodford> it is an ADSL connection through a router modem
[21:54] <hibana> hmm...
[21:55] <gwoodford> hibana, i'm using the connection now to chat on here, so i know the socks connection works
[21:55] <hibana> so the pi acts as ahotspot for the phone?
[21:55] <Kilos> havent laptops got eth connecting sockets
[21:56] <gwoodford> I just can't route all my traffic through it
[21:57] <hibana> a very foreign setup indeed
[21:57] <gwoodford> hibana, well the pi wifi dongle i have does not support hotspot mode, so i need my phone to be the wifi hotspot, so my pi connect to it
[21:58] <gwoodford> hibana, it is one of those ultrathin laptops, so no eth port, laptop is too thin
[21:58] <Kilos> eish
[21:59]  * hibana fails to see how the android connects to the pi
[22:00] <hibana> fp
[22:00] <gwoodford> hibana, android does not connect to pi, the pi connect to android |    Internet - pi -> phone (hotspot) <- laptop
[22:00] <hibana> ai!
[22:01] <gwoodford> quite a hack, but when a guy needs the internet, he finds a way
[22:01] <superfly> I'm failing to see why you need a proxy?
[22:02] <gwoodford> superfly, I don't know how else to do it, the internet access reaches the pi, but the phone does not have an internet connection
[22:03] <superfly> gwoodford: you need to set up your routing correctly, mosty
[22:03] <superfly> *mostly
[22:03] <gwoodford> superfly, on my pi?
[22:03] <superfly> and on your laptop
[22:04] <hibana> yeah that sounds right
[22:04] <superfly> and possibly your phone, though I'm not too sure how to work that
[22:04] <superfly> gwoodford: the main question I have is this: why can't you connect your laptop to the router too?
[22:05] <gwoodford> I imagine I would first need to get my phone to access the internet somehow through the connection first?
[22:05] <superfly> oh, no eth port
[22:05]  * superfly should read, not skim
[22:05] <hibana> :-)
[22:05] <Kilos> hehe
[22:05] <superfly> gwoodford: can your phone browser the internet?
[22:05] <superfly> s/r//
[22:06] <gwoodford> superfly, it is my landlords router, I don't have direct access, he only provides a lan connection and the main house is too far away to pickup his wifi
[22:06] <gwoodford> superfly, nope, don't has not internet connection
[22:07] <superfly> that would be your problem then
[22:07] <gwoodford> superfly, well the socks connection works, it is just the tsocks application that i can't get working
[22:08] <superfly> gwoodford: without plugging my own phone into a similar configuration... does your phone show up as an ethernet device?
[22:08] <superfly> why are you using tsocks?
[22:08] <superfly> gwoodford: why not ssh from the laptop to the pi and use that as a socks tunnel?
[22:08] <gwoodford> superfly, my phone shows up as a wifi hotspot on my laptop
[22:09] <superfly> and the proxy is on the pi then, I presume?
[22:09] <superfly> gwoodford: that really has nothing to do with the issue
[22:09] <superfly> gwoodford: and I was talking about the pi, not your laptop
[22:10] <gwoodford> superfly, that is what i'm doing currently, i'm sshing from my laptop to the pi, socks tunnel works, but only through applications that have built in support for socks proxy, like Eclipse and Firefox
[22:11] <gwoodford> tsocks is for forcing applications to go through the socks tunnel
[22:12] <gwoodford> for example: tsocks ping <IP_ADDRESS>
[22:12] <gwoodford> should be working
[22:15] <superfly> gwoodford: if you run "ip route" on your laptop, what do you see?
[22:17] <gwoodford> default via <IP_ADDRESS> dev wlan0  proto static  <IP_ADDRESS>/24 dev wlan0  proto kernel  scope link  src <IP_ADDRESS>  metric 9  <IP_ADDRESS>/24 dev virbr0  proto kernel  scope link  src <IP_ADDRESS>
[22:18] <superfly> OK
[22:18] <superfly> and your cellphone's IP address is <IP_ADDRESS> ?
[22:19] <superfly> gwoodford: what's your PI's IP address?
[22:20] <gwoodford> superfly, i'm not sure what my phones ip address is, but the pi iw <IP_ADDRESS>
[22:20] <superfly> ok
[22:20] <gwoodford> is*
[22:22] <gwoodford> i edited my /etc/tsocks.conf to only have the following settings
[22:22] <gwoodford> server = <IP_ADDRESS>
[22:22] <gwoodford> server_type = 5
[22:22] <inetpro> yay!
[22:22] <gwoodford> server_port = 1080
[22:23] <superfly> gwoodford: try this...
[22:23] <superfly> sudo ip route del default
[22:23] <superfly> sudo ip route add default via <IP_ADDRESS> dev wlan0
[22:23]  * inetpro is back on Kubuntu 14.04
[22:23] <superfly> inetpro: w00t!
[22:23] <Kilos> yay
[22:23] <Kilos> my iso download is at 86%
[22:26] <gwoodford> superfly, that does not seem to make any difference
[22:26] <superfly> gwoodford: I'm not sure my commands are correct
[22:26] <superfly> I don't use those commands on a regular basis
[22:26] <superfly> what did it say?
[22:27] <gwoodford> superfly, it did not give any errors and seemed to make the change fine
[22:27] <superfly> gwoodford: ip route
[22:27] <gwoodford> but still not connection through tsocks or normally
[22:27] <superfly> gwoodford: also, ip route on your pi
[22:28] <gwoodford> default via <IP_ADDRESS> dev wlan0 | <IP_ADDRESS>/24 dev wlan0  proto kernel  scope link  src <IP_ADDRESS>  metric 9
[22:30] <gwoodford> superfly, i'm going to try use the system proxy build into ubuntu to connect through the proxy, hopefully that is fixed, but i might temporarily lose my connection
[22:30] <Kilos> inetpro  14.04.1 iso is here
[22:30] <gwoodford> superfly, sorry wrong ip route, will do my pi now
[22:31] <gwoodford> <IP_ADDRESS>/24 dev eth0  proto kernel  scope link  src <IP_ADDRESS> |  <IP_ADDRESS>/24 dev wlan0  proto kernel  scope link  src <IP_ADDRESS>
[22:32] <superfly> no default?
[22:32] <Kilos> thats me done for tonight. sleep tight guys
[22:32] <inetpro> night Kilos
[22:32] <gwoodford> superfly, default via <IP_ADDRESS> dev eth0
[22:32]  * inetpro also hitting the sack
[22:33] <gwoodford> superfly, sorry missed the default line
[22:33] <inetpro> superfly: thanks for taking over to help gwoodford
[22:33] <gwoodford> nite inetpro
[22:35] <gwoodford> maybe i should try get tsocks working on my debian laptop and see if it works there?
[22:47] <superfly> I also need to hit the hay
[22:47] <superfly> night all
[23:40] <gwood> sigh, can't sleep


[03:54] <johncena> wassup dude
[03:54] <johncena> ss
[03:55] <johncena> anyone on
[03:56] <LnxGnome> johncena: for a few more min
[03:56] <johncena> i installed eurolinux it can't connect to wifi help
[03:57] <LnxGnome> What have you tried?
[03:57] <johncena> nothing just grab the iso. it dont recognize wifi adapter
[03:57] <LnxGnome> which version of the iso? what wifi adapter?
[03:58] <johncena> tp link 725n, latest from their website
[04:01] <LnxGnome> Seems EuroLinux is a CentOS knock-off.  This is a Ubuntu support chat.  The internals are quite different.  You'll probably have better luck asking on a eurolinux forum.
[04:02] <LnxGnome> tp-link does offer a linux driver, so that's good.
[04:03] <johncena___> just tried again. 86x64 format .iso latest. installed on usb, reboot. can't detect wifi adapter
[04:03] <leftyfb> johncena___: sorry, but we only support Ubuntu here. You'll have to seek support with Eurolinux elsewhere
[04:03] <LnxGnome> EuroLinux is hardware-compatible with any device certified for Red Hat® Enterprise Linux® and Oracle® Linux. The list of certified hardware for EuroLinux is therefore the same as the list published by the manufacturers of these systems.
[04:04] <johncena___> if i don't have wifi in the live iso. will anything change if i install it
[04:04] <leftyfb> johncena___: sorry, but we only support Ubuntu here. You'll have to seek support with Eurolinux elsewhere
[04:05] <LnxGnome> johncena___:  you're asking the wrong people really.  You'll have a better shot with Google, euro-linux.com
[04:05] <lotuspsychje> johncena___: or make your life easy, and download an ubuntu iso and get support here every day
[04:05] <LnxGnome> lotuspsychje: excellent answer!
[04:06] <johncena___> nah ubuntu from even the home page tells you they share data with aws.
[04:06] <johncena___> no point in going linux and then installing ubuntu. i'll just install windows in that case
[04:06] <leftyfb> johncena___: good luck
[04:09] <lotuspsychje> lol
[05:52] <JMichael1> netplan is one of the most ridiculous things I have ever seen. Just upgraded, belatedly, from 21.10 to 22.04, and lost all of my network settings on an ubuntu server installation. Omg, does every last tutroial suck, thus far.
[05:52] <JMichael1> tutorial*
[05:56] <rfm> JMichael1, try just reading the real docs at netplan.io, I never had the least problem
[05:57] <JMichael1> rfm: All right, I will have a look
[05:59] <rfm> JMichael1, I can imagine upgrades going bad, but once you get on the train it's pretty nice.
[06:00] <JMichael1> rfm: Thx for the encouragement, and that's good to hear.
[08:22] <Yakov> my syslog folder hit 40GB with no reason
[08:22] <Yakov> how to trail problem?
[08:24] <CosmicDJ> Yakov: find the biggest logfiles, figure out which process/service is writing them, turn off debug logging and/or use logrotate
[08:27] <Yakov> its syslog  (/var/log) how to disable loging for that?
[08:29] <CosmicDJ> Yakov: see /etc/rsyslog.d/50-default.conf -> "*.*;auth,authpriv.none          -/var/log/syslog" almost everything ends up in /var/log/syslog, look which source is writing the most
[08:29] <Yakov> i found that exact files it contains over million lines
[08:29] <Yakov> file*
[08:32] <CosmicDJ> logrotate and /etc/logrotate.d/rsyslog should compress/rotate that file; but again, unless your server is running for years and that file has never been rotated, it shouldn't be that big; find out which service/process is spamming your log
[08:32] <Yakov> it must be my logger
[08:32] <Yakov> which I use for application
[08:46] <Flo> hello guys , can someone explain me this pls , sysadmin@localhost:~$ cd ~root
[08:46] <Flo> -bash: cd: /root: Permission denied
[08:46] <Flo> sysadmin@localhost:~$ cd ~/root
[08:46] <Flo> -bash: cd: /home/sysadmin/root: No such file or directory
[08:46] <Flo> sysadmin@localhost
[08:47] <CosmicDJ> Flo: you don't have permission to change to roots homedir (~root), there is no root directory in ~sysadmin
[08:50] <Flo> i was not the root user so how can i see where his home is ? , I thought only the user how is logged in has permissions to see the home direktory so the ~ symbol does not mean my home dir ?
[08:51] <EriC^^> Flo: ~root means root's home, ie /root
[08:52] <CosmicDJ> Flo: because every homedir is in /etc/passwd which every user can read; that's why your shell knows where ~root is
[08:52] <CosmicDJ> Flo: ~ without any valid username is your current user homedir
[08:53] <Flo> thank you CosmicDJ
[08:54] <Flo> that really helped me alot understanding linux
[10:00] <spinningcat__> hey
[10:00] <spinningcat__> i try to connect staarbucks connection with ubuntu and i got Error performing TLS handshake: The Diffie-Hellman prime sent by the server is not acceptable (not long enough).
[10:00] <spinningcat__> but in phone i can connect that wireless fine
[10:00] <spinningcat__> why can that happen?
[10:47] <leisenfelder> e
[13:30] <FKAShinobi> Does Ubuntu manage memory like other distros? I have 32GB and just rebooted I'm showing 29GB free and 1.7 GB used for buffers/cache. I thought the linux kernel allocated most memory for buffers/cache and only kept a small amount as free.
[13:31] <BluesKaj> Hi all
[13:32] <CosmicDJ> FKAShinobi: just like any other distro, you have to use your system (i.e. read files) to fill your buffer/cache
[13:34] <FKAShinobi> CosmicDJ, The problem is that with using over time the memory starts to show almost all _used_ The buffers/cache pretty much stay constant. That's after closing apps and just having a shell open.
[13:35] <leftyfb> FKAShinobi: that's not a problem
[13:35] <leftyfb> the memory is just reserved, not committed. It can still be used if needed
[13:38] <CosmicDJ> FKAShinobi: also, the kernel allocates (most) memory on demand, so you'll start with lots of free/available memory when the system was just (re)booted; the more/bigger files you read, the more "buff/cache" will grow, the more programs you start, the bigger "used" will be
[13:45] <FKAShinobi> leftyfb, CosmicDJ: So where do I find the amount of memory available to be used my more programs (without paging to disk)?
[13:46] <CosmicDJ> FKAShinobi: terminal -> free -m "available"
[13:49] <FKAShinobi> leftyfb, CosmicDJ: So once the kernel starts using the free memory and those processes die, I assume that the kernel just keeps that memory reserved but not committed and lists it as used for the remainder of it's uptime. Is that correct/
[13:49] <FKAShinobi> ?
[13:51] <leftyfb> correct
[13:51] <FKAShinobi> Thank you both
[13:52] <chilversc> I thought reserved would still be released once the process terminated?
[13:52] <CosmicDJ> what? are you sure? why should the kernel reserve memory for terminated procs?
[13:53] <leftyfb> buff/cache is what is available but "reserved"
[13:53] <leftyfb> look at the "free" command
[13:54] <CosmicDJ> e.g. I run a simple C-program that does malloc(4g) and then quits, that 4g would not return to the free list but would be forever remain reserved?
[13:54] <leftyfb> https://www.inmotionhosting.com/support/server/linux/check-memory-usage/
[13:56] <chilversc> I don't actually see the term reserved anywhere in free, or meminfo?
[14:00] <Habbie> CosmicDJ, it would definitely become free again - but just the malloc might not have taken 4G of actual memory to begin with, if the process did not use the memory
[14:01] <CosmicDJ> calloc then? :)
[14:01] <Habbie> yes, that would cost actual memory/swap
[15:43] <ash_worksi> pkgs are "kept back" when they have deps that need to be upgraded too, right?
[15:44] <coderman1> where do i go to permanently add a dns server to my resolv.conf? that file has a comment at the top that says to not manually edit that file
[15:44] <ravage> !phasedupdates | ash_worksi
[15:45] <leftyfb> coderman1: change it in your network settings. Either Network Manager if you're using desktop or your netplan if you're using server
[15:45] <ravage> is 23:10 already on netplan too? i never checked
[15:45] <leftyfb> coderman1: if you are only set to DHCP, then I recommend making the change to the nameserver setting on your DHCP server (more than likely your router)
[15:46] <ravage> i heard somewhere that everything will be netplan. just not when :)
[15:47] <leftyfb> ravage: regardless if the backend config files are saved to /etc/netplan or /etc/NetworkManager/system-connections, if they have a GUI, they should us the GUI to configure network settings
[15:47] <ravage> that was not my question but thx
[15:47] <coderman1> leftyfb, it seems like netplan has not even been configured on this server. this is no config file
[15:48] <leftyfb> coderman1: is this running a desktop GUI?
[15:49] <coderman1> no on server
[15:49] <leftyfb> coderman1: then you're either not running a supported release of ubuntu or you've removed netplan
[15:49] <oerheks> ls /etc/netplan
[15:50] <coderman1> there is a netplan directory, just no config file in it
[15:51] <ash_worksi> ravage: is that the _only_ reason one would get this message: "The following packages have been kept back:" ?
[15:51] <ravage> it is the most common
[15:52] <leftyfb> coderman1: ( cat /etc/os-release ; apt policy netplan.io ; apt policy ifupdown ) | nc termbin.com 9999
[15:52] <ravage> ash_worksi: it can also happen if you use 3rd party package sources
[15:53] <ash_worksi> ravage: so there's nothing else that would say "due to phasing" or something that would make me feel certain I'll get them eventually?
[15:53] <ash_worksi> ravage: they're all from /jammy-updates
[15:54] <coderman1> i fixed it by copying a netplan config file from another server and using netplan try/apply
[15:54] <coderman1> thank you!
[15:55] <leftyfb> coderman1: you should really figure out why it was missing in the first place and if there was network connectivity, how there was network connectivity without a netplan config,
[15:57] <ash_worksi> whattya know, they have a bug report about that (ambiguous message)
[16:12] <LnxGnome> JMichael1: netplan definitly needs some work. I've found faulty logic in it that I had to write a patch for.
[16:47] <Square> Anyone using Discord on ubuntu? Do you use the stable version or canary?
[16:47] <Square> ...and how do you keep it up to date?
[16:48] <leftyfb> Square: the snap package will automatically update
[16:48] <Square> leftyfb, canary or stable?
[16:49] <leftyfb> Square: type this into your termina
[16:49] <leftyfb> Square: type this into your terminal: snap info discord
[16:50] <Square> leftyfb, yes?
[16:51] <leftyfb> Square: that will tell you what versions are available
[16:54] <Square> leftyfb, I'll ditch the canary and run the stable for a while
[16:55] <leftyfb> Square: you do understand that the "stable" and "canary" versions of discord are both the exact same version at the moment right? So I'm not sure why canary even matters to you
[16:55] <Square> i used to run the stable release from snap, but that spammed my syslog into oblivion. That's why I switched to canary
[16:56] <Square> Seems like the "stable" still has some syslog spamming going, even if using the "snap connect discord:system-observe" command.
[17:05] <diegoja> hola
[17:05] <diegoja> saludos buen día
[17:07] <diegoja> Saludos buen día
[17:07] <diegoja> soy nuevo con este juguetito
[17:10] <diegoja> alguien vive ahiii
[17:55] <elias_a> Trying to install a fresh installation of 23.10 on thinkpad x230. UEFI selected in BIOS. If I try manual partitioning, the dropdown menu entry of the disk where bootloader should be installed remains grey. Is this a known bug?
[17:58] <oerheks> maybe not a bug, what disk is selected to boot UEFI from?
[17:58] <oerheks> if it is a different disk, yes, the bootloader option should not apply to that disk
[17:59] <ubuntupro> info system
[18:00] <elias_a> oerheks: The same and only SSD in the laptop.
[18:01] <leftyfb> elias_a: can I ask why you need to do manual partitioning?
[18:02] <elias_a> leftyfb: Because I like to keep /home on a separate partition to keep things more simple.
[18:02] <leftyfb> elias_a: If you ask me, that gives no benefit and only complicates things
[18:03] <elias_a> leftyfb: Quite the contrary. It is far more simple to backup a whole partition when needed.
[18:04] <leftyfb> elias_a: I disagree
[18:05] <oerheks> then it is greyed out, as the EFI partition is already there?
[18:06] <oerheks> not sure how to see this
[18:10] <elias_a> leftyfb: You are free to disagree. There's no faster way to make a full backup of user data than copying the whole /home partition.
[18:10] <leftyfb> elias_a: rsync
[18:11] <PeGaSuS> I don't like to cross-post, but I got no answer elsewhere:  what can I do to see why my Ubuntu server seems to hang out at "Fetched X B in Ys (Z B/s)"?
[18:11] <leftyfb> elias_a: unlike and image, rsync doesn't copy empty space
[18:11] <elias_a> oerheks: This was a user error. The selection of boot device has to be made first and then create the partitions. Can not recall if this has been the case before...
[18:12] <oerheks> did you select' use whole disk' ?
[18:12] <elias_a> leftyfb: Not significant if using a HDD dock.
[18:12] <elias_a> oerheks: Nope
[18:12] <chilversc> PeGaSuS: when doing what?
[18:13] <PeGaSuS> just after "apt update" is stays there
[18:13] <PeGaSuS> I even had to hit Ctrl-c after 1h or something
[18:26] <chilversc> PeGaSuS: is that while updating any specific package?
[18:27] <PeGaSuS> chilversc: not that I remember off
[18:27] <chilversc> PeGaSuS: I would start by running apt with various debugging enabled
[18:29] <chilversc> PeGaSuS: e.g. https://manpages.debian.org/unstable/apt/apt.conf.5.en.html#DEBUG_OPTIONS
[18:29] <InDa_> How do I remove the manufacturer's logo when starting Ubuntu?
[18:30] <PeGaSuS> which ones are useful to run? I have no idea of what is useful or not
[18:31] <leftyfb> InDa_: https://ubuntu.com/core/docs/splash-screen
[18:31] <leftyfb> InDa_: wait, that might not be right
[18:31] <InDa_> Oh...
[18:31] <InDa_> Thanks
[18:31] <leftyfb> InDa_: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Plymouth
[18:31] <InDa_> :)
[18:33] <lotuspsychje> elias_a: wich flavour does that occur on, and lvm or regular install?
[18:34] <chilversc> PeGaSuS: not sure, I'd just try ones that look like they could be related
[18:34] <chilversc> PeGaSuS: aquire http/https could be useful if its a download issue, along with the pkgAcquire options
[18:35] <chilversc> PeGaSuS: another thing to check might be the ps tree while apt is stuck, maybe its running a script in the background that's hit an issue
[18:44] <LoZioNe> buonasera a tutti, ho una domanda riguardante un floppy-disk USB.Viene montato e riconosciuto perfettamente,non gli ho dato il montaggio automatico (non mi interessa),però ho notato che hanche da smontato (lo vedo da gestione dispositivi e dischi e dispositivi),lo sento tikkettare (il suono del lettore che normalmente emette.Non dovrebbe smettere se lo smonto come periferica?
[18:44] <leftyfb> !it | LoZioNe
[18:50] <PeGaSuS> this is all I got so far with `sudo apt -o Debug::Acquire::http=1 -o Debug::Acquire::https=1 -o Debug::pkgAcquire=1 update`: https://paste2.0bin.xyz/view/04d8f451
[18:51] <Bearnux> Hey, how do I get latest development Wine running on Ubuntu 23.04? They only seem to have an old version in their repositories
[18:57] <elias_a> lotuspsychje: Regular install.
[18:58] <elias_a> lotuspsychje: Probably a user error. It's a long time I did an install from scratch.
[18:59] <lotuspsychje> elias_a: i recently saw a lubuntu 24.04 bug similar, but that was for lvm only
[19:00] <chilversc> PeGaSuS: and that's the point where it hangs?
[19:01] <Bearnux> chilversc yeah seems like its stuck there
[19:01] <PeGaSuS> chilversc: yes. it doesn't continue after that.. last time it was stuck for 3h before I use Ctrl-C
[19:03] <chilversc> PeGaSuS: it's likely some sort of issue with a script or other process that's running after the fetch, though it appears that so far all its done is fetch the list of packages from the repositories
[19:05] <PeGaSuS> I can't really understand thiss. it used to work okay and all of a sudden it doesn't
[19:06] <chilversc> I'm wondering about the integrity of the local package database, but not sure of the dpkg command to verify it
[19:06] <chilversc> annoyingly trying to search for it just brings up lots of info about verifying packages
[19:06] <chilversc> maybe; dpkg --audit?
[19:08] <PeGaSuS> no output with `dpkg --audit`
[19:09] <oerheks> old, but usefull https://help.ubuntu.com/community/PackageManagerTroubleshootingProcedure
[19:10] <oerheks> PeGaSuS, maybe it is better to pastebin the whole output first.
[19:12] <PeGaSuS> I need to execute all commands from step 6? worth to mention that this is a server, though
[19:14] <oerheks> no
[19:14] <oerheks> without the full output of your update upgrade command, we can go wild random, but that is not usefull
[19:15] <PeGaSuS> this is the mpst far that my `apt upgrade` goes: https://paste2.0bin.xyz/view/04d8f451
[19:16] <PeGaSuS> I mean `apt update`
[19:16] <rfm> PeGaSuS,  is the disk full?  Also, try fsck on the disk (best from a live cd boot if you can)
[19:17] <PeGaSuS> still 1.7T to disk fuull
[19:17] <PeGaSuS> also, this is a remote server, so not possible to boot from a live ISO
[19:21] <Bearnux> Hey how do i get latest development Wine running in Ubuntu ? Only old version seems available through repositories
[19:22] <PeGaSuS> can I just do `apt dist-upgrade`? or `apt update` is always needed?
[19:22] <arraybolt3> Bearnux: Install from Wine's repos, not Ubuntu's.
[19:22] <ravage> Bearnux: afaik wine offers a repo. keep in mind 3rd party repos are not supported here
[19:23] <JanC> "apt update" gets the list of current packages; without it APT can't know what new packages are available...
[19:23] <arraybolt3> Ubuntu purposefully ships an older one for stability's sake, but you can get new ones from Wine themselves. They should provide support for it if you end up needing help.
[19:23] <Bearnux> Hello everyone! How does one run Steam with Proton Experimental and Lutris at same time without having issues like game crashing when alt tabbing out of it
[19:23] <ravage> PeGaSuS: if update does not finish you dont get any new packages trough the upgrade command
[19:24] <Bearnux> arraybolt2: Thankyou very much for your help !
[19:24] <PeGaSuS> weird.. `aptt dist-upgrade` says that there are 15 packages to be upgraded
[19:24] <Bearnux> ravage : Understood , thank you .
[19:24] <ravage> PeGaSuS: then do those updates first
[19:24] <PeGaSuS> I'll give it a shot and see
[19:25] <JanC> there are several repositories (updates, security, etc.) so maybe some were updated
[19:26] <PeGaSuS> stupid idea: is there a way to purge apt cache? so it needs to re-fetch all data?
[19:26] <ravage> apt clean
[19:26] <JanC> apt clean only deletes downloaded .deb files
[19:26] <JanC> I think?
[19:27] <ravage> i think so yes
[19:28] <ravage>  i think cleaning out /var/lib/apt/lists/* should work?
[19:29] <ravage> like a crude "sudo rm -rf /var/lib/apt/lists/*" ?
[19:30] <JanC> I don't see any errors in that "apt update" log, so that command is probably looking at the wrong debug stuff
[19:31] <ravage> it may be some hook that comes after it
[19:31] <ravage> but i dont really know how to debug that. except a process trace maybe
[19:31] <Bearnux> Janc : Thanks for your help , but how does one get Wine development version from official repo instead of third party ones   Bearnux
[19:32] <ravage> maybe strace would at least show if it at least tries to do anything
[19:32] <ravage> Bearnux: you dont
[19:32] <ravage> !latest | Bearnux
[19:32] <Bearnux> ravange thanks !
[19:33] <Bearnux> Thankyou very much Ravanve and everyone else who helped me today . Have an awesome day !!
[19:33] <ravage> i will forward that to this Ravanve when i see him
[19:34] <Bearnux> ubottu thankyou sir! I understand now :)
[19:34] <Bearnux> alright, got it. Thanks anyways.
[19:34] <Bearnux> !ppa
[19:35] <Bearnux> thanks again everyone , have great evening / morning .
[19:35] <Bearnux> oops wrong window
[19:44] <vermitrall> привет)
[19:50] <Bearnux> vermitrall I think you need to go to #ubuntu-ru
[19:51] <Bearnux> sorry my bad
[20:07] <PeGaSuS> I'll be damned.. even after a `apt dist-upgrade` the `apt update` still hangs. the hardware isn't fast (Kimusifi, OVH branch with cheap dedicateds due to older hardware) but still.. I've `apt clean` and even `sudo rm -rf /var/lib/apt/lists/*` but still no cigar
[20:08] <ravage> PeGaSuS: did it ever work? do you remember what you did before it stopped working?
[20:09] <ravage> is it maybe posible to just backup and reinstall?
[20:09] <PeGaSuS> it always worked.. I have no idea what made it stopped working.. same packages for the last year, basically
[20:10] <PeGaSuS> I can't backup since it's a remote server
[20:10] <spacefrog> Can I talk without logging into my user?
[20:11] <spacefrog> I see no objections, so here we go!
[20:11] <spacefrog> I have a brand new Latitude 7440, with a fresh install of 22.04, but my camera doesn't work.
[20:12] <spacefrog> a few forum posts suggest adding some ppas, but add-apt-repository fails when sudo add-apt-repository
[20:13] <spacefrog> any suggestions?
[20:15] <CosmicDJ> PeGaSuS: hangs where? Did you try another mirror (maybe OVH has one)? did you run apt update with strace?
[20:15] <toddc> sudo add-apt-repository ppa:<ppa_name>
[20:15] <spacefrog> toddc: that is the command i am trying. however, i get a crash, and the OS wants me to report it to devs
[20:15] <spacefrog> can't get past that stage
[20:16] <JanC> PeGaSuS: I assume the VPS has enough RAM?
[20:17] <JanC> and strace might help to find what it is doing when it hangs indeed
[20:17] <toddc> is this the guide you are look ing at? https://askubuntu.com/questions/1473289/integrated-camera-not-working-on-dell-latitude-7440-and-7340-ubuntu-22-04
[20:18] <PeGaSuS> JanC: 4Gb and about 2Gb free
[20:20] <spacefrog> toddc: that is it
[20:21] <PeGaSuS> I think I'll have a break. my nose hurts (had a septoplasty yesterday) and I need to lay down a bit
[20:25] <spacefrog> i solved the issue. When connected to work via vpn, that repo is unreachable
[20:37] <spacefrog> Wifi is also a big issue with Ubuntu on this laptop
[20:37] <spacefrog> It seems to be very common thou
[20:38] <spacefrog> back to Windows it is. Thanks. what a dumpster fire this OS is
[20:39] <JanC> ...
[20:40] <JanC> if your hardware doesn't work you should complain to the manufacturer...
[20:41] <CosmicDJ> JanC: he left already... guess he's a quitter
[20:49] <oerheks> https://askubuntu.com/questions/1473289/integrated-camera-not-working-on-dell-latitude-7440-and-7340-ubuntu-22-04
[20:49] <oerheks> after bing; brand new Latitude 7440, with a fresh install of 22.04, but my camera doesn't work.
[22:10] <topolin> Hello, i can't decrypt my root partition using a custom kernel, anyone using liquorix with Luks partition?
[22:20] <topolin> anyone?
[22:21] <Habbie> !liquorix
[22:21] <Habbie> ah, bot doesn't know liquorix
[22:22] <ravage> If you have a an issue with a custom kernel ask the projects support channel
[22:22] <topolin> i am, nobody is replying yet is a full channel
[22:25] <toddc> topolin: most of are working other jobs and check here when we have a free second but if anyone has a adea they will reply when there see your post
[22:26] <toddc> using a non-supported kernal creates another level of issues
[22:42] <ar__> Anyone with printing problems in 23.10?