[00:03] <lamalex> c_korn: I've got a sample Makefile.am that does that if you want to look at it
[00:03]  * sistpoty goes to bed... gn8 everyone
[00:03] <c_korn> lamalex: would be nice
[00:03] <lamalex> c_korn: it might be easier f you just branch lp:gnome-do
[00:04] <lamalex> then you can see the full picture
[00:04] <lamalex> the toplevel Makefile.am and data/Makefile.am are the ones to look at
[00:04] <c_korn> bzr: ERROR: Invalid url supplied to transport: "lp:gnome-do": No such project: gnome-do
[00:05] <lamalex> sorry
[00:05] <lamalex> lp:do
[00:10] <c_korn> lamalex: ok the data/Makefile.am looks similar to mine. but I have no po directory. that is why @INTLTOOL_SCHEMAS_RULE@ fails
[00:11] <lamalex> so remove that
[00:11] <lamalex> ?
[00:11] <lamalex> or just create a po directory
[00:11] <c_korn> so I just replaced it with the empty rule "%.schemas: %.schemas.in". but then it fails with this make[4]: *** No rule to make target `indicator-session.schemas', needed by `all-am'.  Stop.
[00:11] <lamalex> why not just create a po directory?
[00:11] <lamalex> translations are ftw
[00:12] <c_korn> the po directory is all which has to be created ?
[00:14] <lamalex> i think you ned a POTFILES.in file, but it can probably just be empty
[00:19]  * c_korn presses all thumbs he has
[00:20] <c_korn> grep: po/Makefile.in: No such file or directory
[00:20] <c_korn> config.status: error: po/Makefile.in.in was not created by intltoolize.
[00:20] <c_korn> the file po/Makefile.in.in has been created
[00:21] <c_korn> I create an empty POTFILES.in there and try again
[00:21] <lamalex> yah, I odn't have any Makefiles in my po dir, so idk
[00:22] <c_korn> not even a Makefile.in ?
[00:23] <c_korn> it has been created by autogen.sh
[00:23] <c_korn> ok, this is weird: config.status: error: po/Makefile.in.in was not created by intltoolize.
[00:23] <c_korn> it was created by intltoolize actually.
[00:26] <lamalex> I'd look for other errors/warnings higer up in the output
[00:27] <c_korn> there is also: grep: po/Makefile.in: No such file or directory
[00:27] <c_korn> this is correct. the file does not exist
[00:31] <c_korn> need to sleep
[00:31] <c_korn> lamalex: thanks for your help
[00:38] <lamalex> I've got a question about patching stable debs, do I have to apt-get source twice to create a diff or is there a way to diff against the orig.tar.gz
[00:41] <jmarsden|work> lamalex: Maybe I am misunderstanding the question.  debuild should create a diff.gz for you... why would you need to diff against the orig.tar.gz by hand?  Similarly cdbs-edit-patch or whatever patch tool will create patches for you...
[00:41] <Laney> what are you trying to do?
[00:43] <lamalex> jmarsden|work: I'm just learning about debian packaging, so I'm sure there's a simple answer to this that I'm just totally ignorant to
[00:43] <jmarsden|work> lamalex: OK... so Laney's question is very relevant... what specifically are you trying to do?
[00:44] <lamalex> Laney: in jolicloud we need to patch Janty's gnome-power-manager and I need to make some changes to the source and repackage them back up
[00:44] <Laney> so you want to learn about patch systems then
[00:46] <Laney> run "what-patch" to see which one it uses
[00:46] <jmarsden|work> lamalex: Have you read through and understood https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Complete  (part 4 and part 7.1 seem very relevant to you)
[00:47] <lamalex> jmarsden|work: I will bookmark this, thanks
[00:47] <jmarsden|work> No problem.
[00:50] <lamalex> Laney: so will these allow me to alter the source in the source dir when i apt-get source?
[00:52] <x1250> Guys, I (naively) named a ffmpeg PPA version as: 5:0.5+svn19732-ppa2. The problem is that this packages *breaks* a lot of things (http://paste.ubuntu.com/261214/) and also, when trying to build a package that depends on this custom ffmpeg it fails to build because of unmet dependencies.
[00:52] <x1250> here you can see: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/30922495/buildlog_ubuntu-karmic-i386.mlt_1%3A0.4.4-84-g676f7ec%2Bppa1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
[00:53] <Laney> lamalex: yeah a patch system is a way of managing the changes you make to the upstream release
[00:53] <directhex> lamalex, when you apt-get source, as long as you add a changelog entry to make the version number higher (dch -i) then any changes you make to the source package will be represented in the "new" source package when you run "debuild -S"
[00:55] <lamalex> directhex: but shouldn't they really go in a patch/ dir?
[00:55] <directhex> lamalex, essentially the .diff.gz file contains any changes compared to orig. how best to manage that is where things like patch systems come into play - but the diff.gz file is produced when you build the source package (with debuild -S) and represents all changes not in the orig - whether yours or from the previous packager
[00:55] <Laney> right, the .diff.gz is itself a patch system
[00:56] <lamalex> beautiful
[00:56] <Laney> albeit one that doesn't scale well
[00:57] <lamalex> and if the project already uses a different patch system?
[00:57] <directhex> then continue to use it, ideally
[00:57] <lamalex> for instance g-p-m uses quilt
[00:58] <Laney> yep
[00:58] <Laney> add your own patches into the mix
[00:59] <lamalex> I guess I'll read up on quilt
[00:59] <lamalex> thanks for your help guys :)
[01:03] <lamalex> you guys aren't debian developers are you? I'm lookin for a sponsor for a package ;)
[01:03] <Laney> what is it?
[01:04] <Laney> I suggest you find the appropriate team
[01:04] <lamalex> http://mentors.debian.net/cgi-bin/sponsor-pkglist?action=details;package=tictactoe-ng
[01:05] <Laney> python right?
[01:05] <lamalex> yah
[01:05] <Laney> try PAPT
[01:06] <lamalex> what's/who's papt
[01:06] <Laney> python applications packaging team
[01:06] <Laney> i think
[01:06] <lamalex> ah
[01:18] <kees> siretart: congratz :)
[01:35] <ScottK> lamalex: This is mostly about the Python modules team, but it and PAPT are run essentially the same way: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Debian/PythonModulesTeam
[01:35] <lamalex> ScottK: thanks
[01:35] <lamalex> you guys are super helpful
[01:35] <lamalex> ah, i dont have a module i have an application
[01:36] <lamalex> so i need the python applications team
[01:36] <ScottK> It's the same people/places, just a different svn repo.
[01:37] <lamalex> gotcha
[02:22] <YokoZar> ScottK: is there a reason r-cran-dosnow was never synced from Debian?  The changelog seems to indicate it's basically the same.
[02:23] <YokoZar> (writing Feature Freeze Exception request...which is looking more like a sync request for that package)
[02:26] <bankix> Hello.
[02:27] <bankix> I created two debian packages for ubuntu which are currently not listed in the repositories, afaik.
[02:28] <bankix> I would like to contribute them. Am I on the right channel here?
[02:35] <ScottK> YokoZar: Probably I didn't notice it.
[02:37] <ScottK> bankix: You are, but you are just slightly too late.  We had our feature freeze for the next release yesterday.
[02:38] <ScottK> bankix: Normally at the start of our development cycle new packages in Debian are automatically sync'ed, so you should need to do approximately nothing to get them in.
[02:38] <bankix> Oh, no problem for me. I'm not too keen on having it into Karmic.
[02:38] <bankix> I've got time.
[02:39] <bankix> These two packages are not avaiable in Debian either.
[02:39] <ScottK> Oh.  I mis-understood.
[02:39]  * ScottK didn't notice Debian/debian.
[02:39] <bankix> NP.
[02:40] <ScottK> Yes, this is the place, but not until after Karmic is released.
[02:40] <ScottK> You're welcome to help out with stuff in the meantime and make Ubuntu better.
[02:40] <bankix> Okay, I can wait for Karmic.
[02:41] <bankix> I just created a new distro based on ubuntu for home banking purposes.
[02:42] <bankix> There I included some finance software based on Java, called Hibiscus.
[02:42] <bankix> Capable of HBCI.
[02:43] <bankix> Therefore, I built two .deb packages and put them into my own repository. But they'll install on every Jaunty as well.
[02:43] <bankix> So I thought of contributing them.
[02:44] <bankix> I'll switch to Karmic as well, so I'll create new packages when needed for Karmic, when it's out. So no hurry in getting it into Karmic.
[02:46] <bankix> I'll get back here in two or three month then, when Karmic is released.
[02:46] <bankix> Thanks for info.
[03:03] <zooko> Is there a document about how to file a Feature Freeze Exception request?
[03:05] <zooko> Any users of ipython here?
[03:11] <white> bankix: maybe try and get them into debian first and then they'll be synced later?
[03:12] <bankix> white: Maybe. What do I use best for creating Debian packages? lenny?
[03:12] <zooko> Found it: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/
[03:13] <zooko> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreezeExceptionProcess
[03:13] <ScottK> bankix: You can make a Sid pbuilder chroot and use it for testing.
[03:13] <white> bankix: yeah, i'd recommend using sid
[03:13] <ScottK> bankix: I maintain a number of package in Debian this way.
[03:13] <ScottK> We'd rather get it from them so more people benifit too.
[03:14] <bankix> Hmm, any link how to set up such a pbuilder chroot?
[03:15] <white> bankix: there should be some documentation in the pbuilder/cowdancer packages
[03:15] <bankix> Ah, pbuilder is a package? Okay.
[03:15] <wgrant> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto
[03:16] <bankix> Oh, I should have read it before building my packages for ubuntu, I realize.
[03:17] <bankix> Thanks.
[08:00] <hyperair> what's the appropriate procedure for getting packages rebuilt?
[08:00] <hyperair> due to ABI changes or whatnot
[08:07] <RAOF> hyperair: Uploading a packge with "no change rebuild for libfoo2->libfoo3 transition" as the changelog, basically.
[08:20] <RAOF> hyperair: Oh, and using the "-xbuild1" suffix if the package currently doesn't have any Ubuntu changes.
[08:24] <hyperair> RAOF: aha. that's what i was looking for, thanks
[08:24] <hyperair> the -xbuild1 =)
[08:47] <hyperair> who do i subscribe for package removal requests?
[08:52] <wgrant> hyperair: The sponsors team if you need sponsorship.
[08:52] <wgrant> Otherwise ubuntu-archive.
[08:53] <hyperair> okay
[08:55] <hyperair> thanks
[10:35] <Id2ndR> Hi everybody. I'm a metee of didrocks. I think it would be a relatively easy task to package the florence program (onscreen keyboard), so I'd like a little help to start to do this.
[10:40] <Id2ndR> I'm not familiar with bazar so I don't know how to use PPA to build package. I don't know if I should first make a package independently of the PPA or not
[10:41] <lifeless> bazaar is just a way to record the work you do
[10:41] <lifeless> so that other people can build on it
[10:42] <Id2ndR> Ok, so I should try without bazar first ?
[10:43] <lifeless> no
[10:43] <lifeless> you should understand it doesn't alter interactions with PPA or anything else
[10:43] <lifeless> [this is a slight simplification, however it will get you going in the right direction]
[10:44] <nicoInattendu> Hi , The package luciole was uploaded : https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/luciole
[10:45] <Id2ndR> Ok, am I right saying that bazar and PPA aren't necessary linked ?
[10:45] <nicoInattendu> But i dont know if the assciated LP bug sholud be set so fix commited or fix released ?
[10:45] <lifeless> nicoInattendu: fix released if its fixed in karmic right now
[10:46] <geser> nicoInattendu: fix released
[10:46] <nicoInattendu> ok
[10:48] <joaopinto> Id2ndR, bazar and PPA are not linked, you really should try to get some overview on what both are before trying to do something that needs them
[10:49] <Id2ndR> thanks lifeless and joaopinto
[10:50] <joaopinto> Id2ndR, if you are new to packaging, you should be focused on the packaging process, PPA's and bazar can get into play later
[10:50] <Id2ndR> joaopinto: I just started to read the wiki about that :). I already have package some rpm but nothing about deb
[11:52] <Id2ndR> I've got a strange problem while running debuild : http://pastebin.com/m5af2950e
[11:54] <Id2ndR> Can this be related to the "fakeroot" used in debuild ?
[12:00] <joaopinto> what is the default chartset recommended for debian/control, UTF-8 ?
[12:03] <Id2ndR> joaopinto: I'm not sure to understand the question. I know that i was able to compile the program on jaunty (I didn't try to package it in jaunty), and now I'm trying to package it in karmic
[12:04] <joaopinto> Id2ndR, my question was not for you , was for the chan :)
[12:04] <lifeless> joaopinto: yes, if you need nonascii
[12:05] <joaopinto> lifeless, ok tks
[12:05] <Id2ndR> joaopinto: ok, sorry ;)
[12:25] <Id2ndR> Please, does anybody knows some tips about packaging program that install gconf schemas ?
[12:26] <pochu> Id2ndR: use dh_gconf
[12:28] <Id2ndR> pochu: I'll look at this tool, thanks :)
[12:39] <Laney> hmm
[15:24] <christoph_debian> Heya! I guess it's to late now to fix #346926 as it's feature-freeze time?
[15:25] <christoph_debian> my bad, the bug's actually already fixed but not closed
[15:27] <lfaraone> I have a package, rainbow, which requires libnss-rainbow2 to be installed and *enabled-in-/etc/nsswitch.conf* in order to function. Is there some maintainer script of nss I can use to manipulate nsswitch.conf?
[15:34] <sistpoty> hi folks
[15:49] <coolbhavi> hello
[15:49] <coolbhavi> anyone has an idea how to call cmake during build in rules file
[15:51] <coolbhavi> here is the rules file http://pastebin.com/d12d02e8c
[15:52] <coolbhavi> I build depend on cmake
[15:53] <sistpoty> coolbhavi: maybe you change line 10 to "cd app && cmake" ?
[15:53] <coolbhavi> here is control file sistpoty http://pastebin.com/d574f47fd
[15:54] <sistpoty> coolbhavi: same goes for other occurances of $(MAKE), just change these to cmake?
[15:55] <coolbhavi> sistpoty, you mean [ ! -f Makefile ] || $(CMAKE) distclean
[15:55] <coolbhavi> ?
[15:55] <sistpoty> coolbhavi: just cmake. I doubt that CMAKE is a make variable
[15:55] <coolbhavi> sistpoty, okay
[15:56] <sistpoty> coolbhavi: but basically yes. eventually you'll also need to replace Makefile with what's actually there (iirc cmake files are usually called CMakefile, but I haven't touched cmake stuff for some time)
[15:57] <coolbhavi> sistpoty, or can I use other b-d than cmake to build
[15:58] <sistpoty> coolbhavi: if the build system is a cmake one, then I guess you'll need cmake ;)
[15:59] <coolbhavi> sistpoty, okay
[16:19] <lfaraone> Hey, I'm building multibinary package (rainbow and libnss-rainbow2), but when I specify  "debian/rainbow/usr/lib/*" (the only files I want in the package) in "libnss-rainbow2.install", it actually puts them in "./debian/rainbow/usr/lib/*" in the resulting package. What am I not doing properly?
[16:21] <Laney> lfaraone: just put usr/lib
[16:21] <Laney> (also see man dh_install)
[16:24] <lfaraone> Laney: uh, when I do that, it installs the python library into "/usr/share/lib/", rather than the lib we specified.
[16:25] <Laney> what?
[16:25] <Laney> export DH_VERBOSE=1 in your rules file
[16:25] <Laney> then pastebin the full output
[16:25] <Laney> as well as the contents of your .install files
[16:26] <lfaraone> Laney: okay, one moment...
[16:27] <lfaraone> Laney: do I *need* an .install file for the first binary package in debian/control?
[16:28] <Laney> you need one if you want to install extra things in there
[16:29] <lfaraone> Laney: oh, /me just reread CDBS docs. for python multibinaries, "# CDBS defaults to the first non -doc/-dev/-common package listed in "debian/control""
[16:29] <Laney> right, helpers install files too
[16:31] <lfaraone> Laney:
[16:32] <lfaraone> Laney: log: http://sprunge.us/NVQg and libnss-rainbow2.install: http://sprunge.us/JCWL
[16:34] <Laney> is DH_VERBOSE on?
[16:34] <lfaraone> Laney: yes, DH_VERBOSE=1
[16:42] <Laney> I suspect the python system is installing the files for you
[16:46] <christoph_debian> are FTBFS bugs considered RC for Ubuntu as well?
[16:46] <christoph_debian> worth reporting?
[16:47] <sistpoty> christoph_debian: definitely worth reporting
[16:48] <Laney> we don't really have "RC" for universe though
[16:48] <christoph_debian> ok I'll build again to make sure it's not caused by me experimenting and if it's still there
[16:49] <sistpoty> christoph_debian: eventually you could also peek at http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs/ (maybe it's listed there already)
[16:56] <lfaraone> Hey, lintian is complaining that my debian-changelog file is a symlink. It's a symlink because it's in the same source package as one of the packages it depends on, and for space purposes cdbs automagically symlinks it. Can I add a lintian override for this reason?
[16:57] <christoph_debian> sistpoty: it's not listed
[16:57] <sistpoty> lfaraone: just ignore the lintian warning ;)
[16:57] <lfaraone> sistpoty: okay, but what about when my sponsor complains it's not lintian clean? :P
[16:57] <sistpoty> lfaraone: tell him that there should be a bug open against lintian to get rid of this warning for ubuntu
[16:57] <christoph_debian> lfaraone: you depend on the package shiping the changelog, right?
[16:58] <lfaraone> christoph_debian: correct.
[16:58] <lfaraone> sistpoty: okay, well, is this invalid in debian? (since that's where I'm uploading my package)
[16:58] <lfaraone> *having my package uploaded to
[16:58] <sistpoty> lfaraone: nope, there it shouldn't happen...
[16:59] <sistpoty> lfaraone: is the package using cdbs? if so, have you tried to build it in an unstable chroot?
[16:59] <lfaraone> No. Oh, I see :)
[16:59] <sistpoty> lfaraone: iirc it's an ubuntu only change in cdbs causing the symlinks ;)
[17:00] <christoph_debian> I guess it's even allowd in Debian if you meet some strict conditions
[17:01] <lfaraone> Oh, lintian is complaining that I have a useless whatis entry for one of the manpages I created with "help2man". That's because I honestly have no idea what that command does, it's not used in any other part of their code, and I can't figure it out from the sourcecode. Can I ignore that too, or should I bug upstream to figure out what it is?
[17:03] <Laney> run lintian with -i
[17:03] <Laney> and it will tell you more
[17:04] <lfaraone> Laney: well, I know why it's giving the warning, it's because the "NAME" section is "rainbow-sugarize - manual page for rainbow-sugarize".
[17:04] <lfaraone> (for one of the packages)
[17:04] <lfaraone> *programs
[17:05] <Laney> it would be nice if you could fix it
[17:05] <Laney> but probably not the end of the world
[17:07] <sistpoty> Laney: btw.: in regards to ghc6/ia64: have you seen the mail from kari? looks like ghc6 still needs itself for stage1 so we should not drop ia64,as 6.8.2 appears to be enough for bootstrapping the next version
[17:07] <Laney> yeah i saw it
[17:07] <Laney> it's not necessary though, there is a stage1 build
[17:07] <Laney> but i dont mind keeping it aruond
[17:08] <Laney> around*
[17:08] <sistpoty> Laney: imo the default stage1 build needs ghc6 to create the intermediate c files. at least this was the case earlier on. It might work if we'd have the intermediate files around but back in the old days I never managed to get this going though
[17:09] <Laney> I rebuild it on my mac all the time
[17:09] <sistpoty> oh, nice :)
[17:09] <Laney> good on a cold winters day
[17:09] <sistpoty> heh
[17:10]  * hyperair grumbles about frostwire upstream being unresponsive
[17:12] <Laney> why do people always want to package that?
[17:14] <hyperair> hmm?
[17:14] <hyperair> somebody roused my interest on it the other day
[17:14] <hyperair> i thought i'd just poke the upstream via email and irc
[17:14] <hyperair> but the lead developer doesn't appear on irc, and doesn't seem responsive to mail either
[17:15] <lfaraone> Would a program that "populates a directory with the contents of the current environment variables" be in /usr/bin or /usr/sbin?
[17:16] <hyperair> um how do you populate a directory with the contents of your environment variables?
[17:17] <lfaraone> hyperair: quoth the manpage: "For each (key, value) in the current environment variables, mkenvdir creates a file with a name of key, contents value, in DIR."
[17:17] <hyperair> i see.
[17:17] <hyperair> fascinating.
[17:18] <hyperair> well, i'd say /usr/bin
[17:18] <hyperair> sbin appears to be something for sysadmins alone
[17:18] <hyperair> or otherwise administrators of said machine
[17:19] <lfaraone> hyperair: re frostwire, fork it! ;)
[17:19] <hyperair> lfaraone: upstream is active. just not responsive to my email.
[17:20] <hyperair> lfaraone: the issue is not that they are inactive, just that they're full of precompiled binaries
[17:20] <hyperair> and their site nicely claims that they're 100% GPL.
[17:20] <lfaraone> hyperair: and therefore not FOSS
[17:20] <hyperair> where's the source code?!
[17:20] <hyperair> well rather, the source is around, you just can't tell which binary comes from what
[17:20] <hyperair> they claim that they're FOSS.
[17:21]  * christoph_debian tries interesting packaging tricks like ignoring make errors
[17:21] <hyperair> you'll get beautiful lintian warnings
[17:22] <christoph_debian> hyperair: do you mean me? Jep I'm not in any way intending to upload that ;)
[17:22] <hyperair> oh
[17:22] <hyperair> heh
[17:22] <christoph_debian> just trying to see what happens
[17:23] <hyperair> erm the errors shall be.. ignored?
[17:24] <christoph_debian> sure but sometimes you can get some working package with soe small tricks, might help finding the problem for the errors
[17:25] <hyperair> it's probably better to patch the build system into submission =\
[17:25] <hyperair> you don't want anything pretending to be completely built when it's not
[17:34] <christoph_debian> hyperair: yeah I'm just searching for the root cause and so on ... but seems I've found some hints now
[18:41] <xnox> hey all! Can anyone please point me to gecko.m4 "upstream" (In the process of updating achient autootools upstream)
[18:48] <christoph_debian> ok how do I extract a source rpm?
[18:56] <randomaction> christoph_debian: rpm2cpio file.rpm | cpio -id
[18:56]  * Laney blinks
[18:56] <christoph_debian> randomaction: abused krusader let's see if the opensuse guys fixed my problem already :)
[19:01] <randomaction> Do I need a FFe for a no-change rebuild? (NBS-related)
[19:02] <Laney> no
[19:02] <randomaction> ok, thanks
[20:28] <blizzkid> Lo all. Would anyone have time and patience to walk me through a (imho simple) packaging? I have a script, I want to create a package, I need it to depend on at least version 2.0 of another package, and the script should be placed in /usr/bin upon apt-getting it.
[23:13] <blizzkid> hmmz, how do I tell dpkg-build to build for karmic instead of unstable? Can't seem to find it in the man page
[23:14] <Zhenech> p3rror, will do so tomorrow, bedtime now :)
[23:14] <blizzkid> dpkg-buildpackage that is
[23:15] <Zhenech> blizzkid, write it in the changelog?
[23:15] <p3rror> yep Zhenech
[23:15] <p3rror> so you received my message
[23:15] <p3rror> :)
[23:16] <Zhenech> p3rror, yes, my mutt just blinked telling me this :)
[23:16] <Zhenech> and I thought, hey, look if ali is on irc and tell him "ok" before you go sleeping
[23:16] <Zhenech> :)
[23:16] <blizzkid> thx Zhenech that worked
[23:17] <p3rror> you are a good main Evgeni
[23:17] <p3rror> thanks in advance
[23:17] <p3rror> ;
[23:17] <p3rror> ;)
[23:17] <Zhenech> you wellcome :)
[23:17] <p3rror> i mean you are a good man Evgeni
[23:17] <Zhenech> but now really bedtime :)
[23:17] <Zhenech> cu tomorrow
[23:17] <p3rror> yes i see
[23:17] <p3rror> well see you later


[00:03] <diddledan> @swiftkey just tweeted a rather risqué picture
[00:03] <daftykins> o0
[00:03] <daftykins> another high profile 'hack' ?
[00:04]  * diddledan /msgs daftykins the link to retain family friendliness
[00:05] <m0nkey_> lol
[00:06] <daftykins> yeah that was... wholly wrong
[00:06] <diddledan> lol
[00:07] <daftykins> of all the things pertaining to emoji, how would you pick that set and not smileys? XD
[01:03] <diddledan> around 30 minutes till launch https://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/nasatv/#public
[06:48] <diplo> Morning all
[07:04] <imexil> Morning. I got a short question regarding python on Ubuntu 16.04. I keep hearing that Python 3 is the default. But on my machine this is simply not the case and it also seems to straight forward to get python 3 setup to be the default. That is without mocking about with changing symlinks which I don't think is the proper way. So what is the issue with Python3 NOT being the default on my macine? Any one got some indicator?
[07:04] <imexil> ^ I wanted to say that it is NOT straight forward to get Python 3 to the default
[07:49] <popey> morning
[08:14] <davmor2> Morning all you funksters
[08:39] <TwistedLucidity> davmor2: I misread that by one letter.
[08:39]  * TwistedLucidity was up far too early
[08:43] <JamesTait> Good morning all!  Happy THursday, and happy Chocolate Day! 😃  🍫
[08:48] <corenominal> Chocolate Day?! Really? Best day evar!
[08:49] <popey> hah
[08:49] <popey> you woke the corenominal
[08:49] <corenominal> :)
[08:49]  * popey lays a trail of chocolate back to corenominals bed
[08:51]  * corenominal Zzzzz
[09:09] <JamesTait> corenominal? Did you get lost? 😝
[09:10] <brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
[09:14] <davmor2> JamesTait: the obvious https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qp6XhtoEv0 and then the not so much https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjAXX2n6_5Q
[09:19] <davmor2> JamesTait: not that I've been waiting for Chocolate Day to pull that one out at all you must understand :D
[09:28] <corenominal> JamesTait: I did, but I managed to find my way back :)
[09:31] <JamesTait> corenominal, well played, sir!
[09:32] <corenominal> thank you
[09:33] <JamesTait> davmor2, you too - 4 Non Blondes!
[09:35] <davmor2> JamesTait: you have spotify to thank I wanted what's up for the morning head song list and that was in the playlist for that :)
[09:36] <davmor2> JamesTait: this is my current favourite though https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9Dg-g7t2l4
[09:38] <davmor2> JamesTait: I kinda want him to do a rendition of stairway to heaven now though :) don't know why but I think it would be awesome
[09:41] <JamesTait> davmor2, wow! Hard to believe that's the same Disturbed who did https://youtu.be/09LTT0xwdfw
[09:44] <davmor2> JamesTait: yeah but look at metalica they do some amazing ballads and then a lot that most definitely aren't :D
[09:44] <JamesTait> davmor2, you read my mind. 😉
[09:44] <davmor2> JamesTait: tonally they are very similar to me
[09:45] <TwistedLucidity> Disturbed do good enough covers, their own material tends to be rather lacklustre IMHO
[09:46] <TwistedLucidity> Another decent cover: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YV4oYkIeGJc
[09:52] <JamesTait> TwistedLucidity, not bad at all. ☺
[09:57] <davmor2> TwistedLucidity: I think lacklustre is a bit harsh, I think they are a good band rather than a great band, another good band is the verve they had a couple of stratospheric songs then seemed to vanish but the rest of their music is okay it's just not great
[09:58] <davmor2> TwistedLucidity: Good bands tend to have moments of brilliance and then everything else goes back to good again
[09:58] <TwistedLucidity> davmor2: Maybe just not to my taste then (although I quite like rock/metal). The one I keep hearing after "Sound of Silence" is "The Light". Urgh.
[10:00] <davmor2> TwistedLucidity: yeah as I say it's okay it's not bad it's not good, I prefer down with sickness and a few others they're slightly heavier and faster paced
[10:02] <davmor2> TwistedLucidity: this is why they are a good band not a great one they are having to fill and album rather than having too many songs and having to drop some is how it seems,  It's like we have these 4 great songs lets make an album and then the other 8 are just fillers to make up the album
[10:03] <davmor2> oh and popey look modern music :P
[10:04] <davmor2> popey: admittedly it sounds like it is from the 80's but meh can't have everything :D
[10:08] <popey> hmm?
[10:08] <popey> I am currently listening to a playlist of very varied music
[10:08] <popey> thanks to aq and willcooke
[10:09] <popey> https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLcaie4S7t_Q0IAHu8nnIspUQcwoVKecFu
[10:09] <popey> http://www.last.fm/user/popeydc see :)
[10:10] <willcooke> \o/
[10:22] <davmor2> nespresso capsules have arrived god that's a nice cup of coffee :)
[10:24] <TwistedLucidity> Never tried them, have filter and espresso machines downstairs.
[10:25] <davmor2> 1st world problems my Ubuntu mug doesn't fit under it easily
[10:25] <MooDoo> morning all
[10:26] <popey> Good call!
[10:26]  * popey gets cappucino from his machine
[10:26] <popey> while things compile
[10:26] <popey>  😃
[10:28]  * TwistedLucidity ponders mentioning Nestle and third world problems; decides not to
[10:28] <TwistedLucidity> Oops
[10:28] <davmor2> TwistedLucidity: that's what I had the linizio Lungo it's a tiny capsule for a filter blend but it was more to try out the machine
[10:28] <TwistedLucidity> popey: https://www.xkcd.com/303/
[10:29] <TwistedLucidity> davmor2: Can one get generic pods for the Nespresso, or is it DRM'd like some others?
[10:29] <davmor2> TwistedLucidity: the machine isn't nestle the first pods were but that was mostly to test the machine there are a whole heap of fair trade etc coffees out there that do pods
[10:29] <TwistedLucidity> Ah, neato
[10:30] <TwistedLucidity> Annoys me when I can't get the hold of fairtrade (or equivalent) stuff.
[10:30] <davmor2> TwistedLucidity: http://www.realcoffee.com/?gclid=CMLim9-S4c0CFRFmGwodJBIJdg you can also get refills and put your own coffee in
[10:31] <TwistedLucidity> Suh-weet!
[10:32] <davmor2> TwistedLucidity: http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2057872.m570.l1311.R1.TR3.TRC1.A0.H0.Xrefillable+nes.TRS0&_nkw=refillable+nespresso+capsules&_sacat=0
[10:33] <TwistedLucidity> Don't have a pod machine and don't have the room in the kitchen for one
[10:34] <TwistedLucidity> G/Fs parents do though, I'll have to pass this on
[10:34] <davmor2> TwistedLucidity: I got the machine from aldi £50 but it got 8* from two different test sites, only issue is the noise from the pump which I can confirm is quite loud but it is only on for a few seconds so :)
[10:35] <TwistedLucidity> Aldi/Lidl do some good stuff
[10:35] <davmor2> TwistedLucidity: this machine is thin and long
[10:36] <TwistedLucidity> We have no room in the kitchen. Seriously.  If it wasn't new, we'd have torn it out and replaced it.
[10:36] <davmor2> TwistedLucidity: no much wider than a mug and is about a foot long
[10:38] <davmor2> TwistedLucidity: http://www.thetestpit.com/2016/02/review-aldi-coffee-specialbuy-range.html
[10:40] <TwistedLucidity> Does it come with a new kitchen? Because if it doesn't, we have no where to put it
[10:40] <TwistedLucidity> Roll on the new house and a sane kitchen layout.
[10:41] <TwistedLucidity> It's a large enough room, but it is as if someone set out to make the more useless work surfaces possible.
[10:42] <davmor2> TwistedLucidity: it need a plug not a kitchen you could have it anywhere :P
[10:42]  * TwistedLucidity looks around office
[10:43] <Myrtti> ♥ Moka-pot ♥
[10:45] <davmor2> Myrtti: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/like/222039860097?lpid=122&chn=ps&googleloc=1007249&poi=&campaignid=207297426&device=c&adgroupid=13585920426&rlsatarget=pla-142405561986&adtype=pla&crdt=0
[10:46] <Myrtti> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Bialetti-Moka-Express-6-Cup-stove-top-coffee-maker-SALE-/272266795032?hash=item3f645d9818:g:uYAAAOSwKIpV-1Ku
[10:49] <popey> TwistedLucidity: mine isn't a nespresso
[10:51] <TwistedLucidity> popey: Never said it was.
[10:53] <davmor2> popey: you have a tassimo
[10:53] <popey> never mind
[11:16] <awilkins> Pod coffee, boooo
[11:16] <awilkins> Aeropress 4tw
[11:17] <awilkins> I tried coldbrew, but a bit too much like rocketfuel for me
[11:28] <davmor2> awilkins: the nespresso is basically just filter coffee / espresso without the mess really nice coffee to be fair, the others are a bit hit and miss
[14:58] <directhex> one of the big gaps between nespresso & other pod systems is the water pressure
[14:58] <directhex> it's also pretty telling that nespresso just does coffee, whereas tassimo & dolce gusto are happy to pump hot chocolate, tea, and lattes with built-in powdered milk through the same spout
[14:59] <zmoylan-pi> some version down the road will also be an ink jet printer... :-)
[15:02]  * popey hugs his dolce gusto
[15:03] <directhex> in theory, dolce gusto is nestle's budget brand, and nespresso is their premium brand. but in the UK there's very little price delta between both systems
[15:04] <directhex> oh, official nespresso pods are online only, only knock-offs sold in stores. tassimo/dg is *everywhere*
[15:14] <popey> yeah, even the local co-op have dg
[15:16] <daftykins> good afternoon!
[15:17] <daftykins> i've got a nespresso but don't really feel all that inclined to have such a small volume drink so often
[15:32] <davmor2> daftykins: you can get them from the nespresso stores of which there are 6 in London and 3 for the rest of the country
[15:33] <davmor2> it is very nice coffee though :)
[15:36] <daftykins> heh, yeah all the recycling centers are in England too
[15:36] <daftykins> so very far out of my reach ;)
[15:43] <davmor2> daftykins: however you can get refillable pods for the nespresso :)
[15:43] <daftykins> i would never have the patience for that :D
[16:54] <davmor2> popey: say it aint so, say you know starwars
[17:42] <diddledan> who's knowledgeable about intel cpus these days? skylake i5 vs i7. I'm wondering if the extra moola is worth it to get an i7 vs an i5
[17:55] <diddledan> well these benchmarks suggest the two I'm looking at are very similar in performance: http://cpuboss.com/cpus/Intel-Core-i7-6700K-vs-Intel-Core-i5-6600K
[17:55] <diddledan> so I would think getting the cheaper i5 would be better
[17:56] <diddledan> the only difference I can see is hyperthreading in the i7 which the i5 doesn't have?
[18:01] <daftykins> yip
[18:01] <daftykins> double check any virt tech stuff too, but i'm pretty sure they're the same
[18:01] <daftykins> i actually went i7 6600 non-K, as overclocking is a waste of time - you also have to buy a heatsink with the K
[18:01] <daftykins> not sure if you do with the i5 K too, might wanna check
[18:04] <diddledan> where's your preferred place for buying puter bits? I might check amazon for their prime delivery
[18:13] <diddledan> oops :-p
[18:13] <diddledan> I went with amazon
[18:14] <diddledan> I mean, I saved my pocket money and put it under my bed for a rainy day
[18:15] <diddledan> I accidentally clicked on the i7 6700
[18:15] <diddledan> (non-k)
[18:15] <diddledan> and this mobo http://www.gigabyte.com/products/product-page.aspx?pid=5480#ov
[18:18] <davmor2> diddledan: the rule of thumb is always buy the biggest and best you can afford at the time as it is most likely already out of date but it will at least be supported for the foreseeable future :)
[18:19] <ali1234> Z170 is an overclocker motherboard you nkow
[18:20] <ali1234> i7 is worth it if you are a developer
[18:20] <ali1234> overclocking not so much
[18:20] <ali1234> you could get a H170 motherboard instead, for slightly cheaper
[18:20] <diddledan> oh well, it's ordered now :-p
[18:20] <ali1234> i actually just upgraded last week so i was reading all about this
[18:20] <ali1234> the stuff i bought has already gone up nearly 10% in price since i bought it
[18:21] <diddledan> brexit shenanigans?
[18:21] <ali1234> i actually got the 6700 and a Z170 motherboard
[18:21] <ali1234> but i chose a specific motherboard for it's features
[18:21] <ali1234> and known linux support
[18:22] <ali1234> then one of my SSDs failed so I RMA'd it... so i'm getting an upgrade to an MX200 for free
[18:23] <ali1234> RAM has gone up 25% since last week, lol
[18:23] <diddledan> I went for 32GB of DDR4
[18:23] <ali1234> i paid £101, now it costs £124
[18:23] <ali1234> me too
[18:23] <ali1234> 2x16GB
[18:24] <diddledan> aah I chose four modules. I don't know there's much difference though
[18:24] <ali1234> there isn't
[18:24] <ali1234> and 64GB is the max for skylake
[18:24] <diddledan> two modules would mean another two can be added
[18:25] <ali1234> i'll probably get another two in a year or so
[18:51] <foobarry> anyone nr NW London who likes sci fi want to earn money for talking about sci fi books?
[19:14] <diddledan> emoji: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSuVrxxdAi0
[19:17] <diddledan> haha. 80s porn still on an old mac: http://gizmodo.com/redditor-gets-old-macintosh-from-craigslist-finds-weir-1783272623?utm_campaign=socialflow_gizmodo_facebook&utm_source=gizmodo_facebook&utm_medium=socialflow
[19:17] <diddledan> ffs link
[19:37] <daftykins> that can't be family friendly!
[19:38] <diddledan> wow, egypt have just stuck their middle-finger up at the time-keeping community: https://twitter.com/DrDanielASmith/status/750310070609649664
[19:39] <diddledan> I wonder how long it'll take for updates to filter through into operating systems
[19:45] <m0nkey_> why is mdadm read/write access so slow?
[19:46] <m0nkey_> Any tips to boost it's performance
[19:47] <daftykins> config details?
[19:47] <m0nkey_> just a basic mirror
[19:47] <m0nkey_> two drives
[19:48] <daftykins> what're you seeing?
[19:48] <m0nkey_> used this command: mdadm --create --verbose /dev/md0 --level=mirror --raid-devices=2 /dev/sdb /dev/sdc
[19:49] <m0nkey_> just very poor write speeds
[19:49] <m0nkey_> reads are no problem
[19:49] <daftykins> stats?
[19:51] <m0nkey_> it's resyncing right now, but before i blew it away and rebuilt it was very slow.
[19:51] <m0nkey_> i expect it to be slow now
[19:51] <m0nkey_> but i know once it's built, it'll still be slow
[19:54] <m0nkey_> OK, resync right now is going around 100000K/sec.. about ~95MB/sec
[19:54] <m0nkey_> so that looks normal
[19:54] <m0nkey_> but once it's built.. speeds are crappy down to 2-3MB/sec
[19:54] <diddledan> wow
[19:54] <daftykins> nasty, distro, kernel and file system? also age of these disks?
[19:54] <diddledan> that's serious degradation if it can sync at 95MB
[19:55] <diddledan> daftykins: don't you dare!
[19:55] <diddledan> daftykins: do NOT touch them!
[19:55]  * daftykins licks his lips
[19:55]  * diddledan mutters angrily about the hand of death
[19:55] <diddledan> diskdeath*
[19:55] <m0nkey_> It's a CentOS 6.8 box, because KVM.
[19:55] <diddledan> KVM! \o/
[19:56]  * daftykins points to the door :D
[19:56] <diddledan> kvm works on boobtoo
[19:56] <daftykins> seriously though, the folks in a CentOS channel would surely know of some quirks
[19:56] <diddledan> I get the impression it's unrelated to the distro though
[19:57] <m0nkey_> I tested with ZFS vdev mirrror, they work fine
[19:57] <m0nkey_> good write speeds
[19:57] <m0nkey_> even better when I set-up a SSD as a slog
[19:57] <m0nkey_> and why is hexchat complaining that all my spelling is wrong
[19:57] <m0nkey_> brb
[19:58] <m0nkey_> Think my spelling plugin creapped out.
[19:58] <diddledan> hmm.. if ZFS works then that suggests the speed is specific to mdraid or the filesystem
[19:58] <m0nkey_> *crapped
[19:58] <m0nkey_> it's a ext4 filesystem
[19:58] <diddledan> you could butter it :-p
[19:58] <m0nkey_> old-ish kernel.. 2.6.32 .. again, KVM :)
[19:58] <diddledan> heh
[19:58] <m0nkey_> want this box to be stable
[19:59] <m0nkey_> unless there's a more up to date kernel for centos
[19:59] <diddledan> centos 7 would have a more recent kernel
[20:00] <m0nkey_> yeah, i could use centos 7
[20:01] <m0nkey_> i've always gone centos 6 because it's always just worked for kvm
[20:04] <m0nkey_> After installing CentOS7, would you recommend rebuilding the mdadm array?
[20:09] <daftykins> nuke it from orbit.
[20:09] <daftykins> surely you could boot live media of theirs to test, though?
[20:10] <daftykins> no need to reinstall fully just to find out
[20:17] <m0nkey_> it's a fairly new box, no vms on it yet
[20:19] <daftykins> more thinking the RAID could be tested in a live sesh
[20:49] <diddledan> popey: oh that's nice of virgin - you're talking with support who tell you to talk to support?
[20:50] <popey> :)
[20:50] <popey> also, see other woman who tweeted me with same issue
[20:50] <diddledan> popey: I'm seeing a LOT of packet loss after birmingham
[20:50] <popey> so it's not my cconnection
[20:50] <diddledan> let me screenie for you
[20:51] <popey> my first tweet to them had a screenie of mtr
[20:51] <popey> ignored
[20:51] <diddledan> https://www.dropbox.com/s/vhrac0d8q0x61x5/Screenshot%202016-07-07%2021.51.14.png?dl=0
[20:53] <daftykins> this file is being uploaded o0
[20:56]  * popey phones them
[20:58] <diddledan> there we go, my screenie finally uploaded
[20:59] <apt-get-moo> did you install mtr via brew?
[20:59] <daftykins> it's default.
[20:59] <daftykins> oh yeah, dirty mac :)
[21:00] <daftykins> diddledan: funky subnet!
[21:07] <diddledan> yes I used homebrew to get mtr
[21:43] <daftykins> diddledan: was there any retraction of that iffy swiftkey tweet from last night?
[21:43] <diddledan> I didn’t notice
[22:29] <diddledan> microsoft is getting random: https://channel9.msdn.com/Series/Manifoldjs/Manifoldjs-Bring-Your-Own-Platform
[22:44] <zmoylan-pi> gotta convince the kids how cool and with it ms are
[22:45] <daftykins> they really ought to stop trying :)
[22:49] <zmoylan-pi> they could allow linux on the xbox...
[22:49] <zmoylan-pi> that would show sony... :-P
[22:50] <zmoylan-pi> and show how much they love linux
[22:51] <daftykins> :)
[23:48] <diddledan> I think my windows 10 is knackered
[23:49] <daftykins> howzat?
[23:49] <diddledan> it’s stuck having downloaded today’s new insider build and done a couple reboots it’s now sitting with black screen and the spinny white “loading” dots
[23:49] <daftykins> and getting nowhere?
[23:49] <diddledan> no evidence
[23:49] <diddledan> the only thing visible is spinning dots
[23:49] <daftykins> :D
[23:49] <diddledan> no progress bar or readout
[23:49] <daftykins> no harm in hitting reset
[23:50] <diddledan> done that several times
[23:50] <daftykins> oh dear! you might have to throw on the newest one you can download from media
[23:52] <diddledan> wiggling the mouse reveals the pointer. so now I have spinny dots and a pointer. the rest is completely black
[23:52] <daftykins> uninstalling SQL server 2008 from an old server 2003 R2 x64 box, "setup is processing"
[23:52] <daftykins> "7 actions have been completed successfully"
[23:52] <daftykins> all i did was run the uninstaller XD