[12:03] <mdke> also you should use more formatting. So use <filename> for filenames, <application> for application names, and <emphasis> where you want to emphasise something
[12:04] <Bluekuja> ok, great
[12:04] <Bluekuja> let me fix
[12:04] <mdke> is this a test doc or did you have something particular in mind for it?
[12:05] <Bluekuja> well it started to be a test doc, but i'm thinking to make it official
[12:05] <mdke> what did you have in mind?
[12:06] <Bluekuja> well, i was thinking to add in other related docs like "irc server how to" etc
[12:06] <Bluekuja> that i've made
[12:06] <LaserJock> Bluekuja: have you seen http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/serverguide/C/index.html ?
[12:07] <Bluekuja> well, no this is the first time
[12:08] <Bluekuja> there is already a ftpserver part but there arent a lot of informations about it
[12:08] <Bluekuja> LaserJock: what do you think?
[12:08] <Bluekuja> mdke: and you?
[12:08] <LaserJock> you should probably start by trying to add to the existing docs, sending patches to the mailing list
[12:09] <mdke> Bluekuja: if you are thinking about adding documents to the distribution, you need to aim at incoroporating them with the existing structure of documents
[12:09] <mdke> individual howtos we generally keep for the wiki
[12:09] <Bluekuja> LaserJock,mdke: yeah, a nice idea would be to add the doc i made inside the server guide
[12:11] <mdke> Bluekuja: you'd have to work with the existing ftp material, which uses different software
[12:11] <Bluekuja> well yes, what about making two different parts, one with vsftpd and another one with pure-ftpd
[12:11] <Bluekuja> two related things
[12:11] <Bluekuja> it would be possible?
[12:11] <mdke> Bluekuja: that is generally something we avoid. Especially because pure-ftpd is not in the main repository
[12:12] <mdke> we like using supported stuff, for the server guide
[12:12] <Bluekuja> i see that there isnt an irc server guide inside it
[12:12] <mdke> that's true.
[12:12] <Bluekuja> what about it?
[12:13] <mdke> I don't know, it doesn't seem like a very common activity for server admins
[12:13] <mdke> it might be a better howto for the wiki
[12:13] <Bluekuja> yeah, i've already made it in the wiki
[12:14] <mdke> ah, nice
[12:14] <Taim> So would it be safe to say it's best covered if it's part of a LAMP install and it resides in the main repository?
[12:14] <mdke> Taim: what do you have in mind?
[12:15] <Taim> Really, I am just getting a feel for how it all works.
[12:15] <mdke> Taim: reading the docs we've done so far is a good way in. Is there something missing from the server guide you feel?
[12:15] <mdke> something in particular
[12:15] <Taim> No, not particularly.
[12:16] <Taim> I haven't had a chance to fully read the docs.
[12:16] <mdke> Bluekuja: the other thing we need to talk about is style
[12:16] <Bluekuja> mdke: yes
[12:16] <Bluekuja> mdke: tell me more about it
[12:16] <mdke> Bluekuja: have you seen our styleguide?
[12:16] <mdke> it's very important that you read that and get familiar with it
[12:17] <mdke> http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/styleguide/en/index.html
[12:17] <Taim> I see from the status that some help is being requested for the firewall configuration portion.  I am considering digging into that some.
[12:18] <Bluekuja> mdke: ok, i take a look at it
[12:18] <mdke> Taim: ah, I think that was dealt with, the status thing might not be completely up to date. We sort of had to fill in all the blanks to get things ready for release
[12:18] <Taim> gotcha.
[12:18] <mdke> Taim: however, that's not to say it doesn't need improving for the next release :D
[12:18] <Taim> True, true.
[12:18] <mdke> especially cos it was done in a bit of a rush
[12:19] <Taim> I wasn't really concerned to much about the upcoming release, I kinda figured it would be pretty close to finished by now.
[12:19] <mdke> yeah, we froze it a while back to allow translation to start
[12:20] <Taim> ah.
[12:24] <Taim> So where does one track release schedules besides the respective mailing list (if one exists)?
[12:24] <mdke> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DapperReleaseSchedule
[12:25] <Taim> Cool.
[12:32] <Taim> So, digging around in all the wiki pages, reviewing the mailing list and generally hovering are a good method for getting up to speed on how documentation works?  Anything else I should be looking at?
[12:34] <mdke> Taim: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam has lots of good explanations of stuff. And just ask in here if you have *any* questions
[12:34] <Taim> That's where a good portion of my time has been spent.
[12:35] <mdke> ah cool
[12:35] <mdke> Taim: things are a little quiet here at the moment due to having got one set of docs out the door, and we need to start planning for what to do with the next release cycle now
[12:35] <Taim> No real questions yet other than what might need to be done.  Seeing as you are in a freeze, I am just hoping now is a good time to get caught up.
[12:36] <Taim> understandable :)
[12:38] <Taim> What tools do you find best to use for writing docs?
[12:39] <Bluekuja> Taim: gedit
[12:39] <LaserJock> vim, yelp, and firefox ;-)
[12:40] <mdke> it's all about gedit
[12:40] <Bluekuja> mdke: :D
[12:40] <Taim> hehe.  Sorry, didn't mean to start the typical editor wars :)
[12:40] <Bluekuja> Taim: lol :)
[12:40] <Taim> I waver between gedit and vim.
[12:41] <Taim> gedit's simple and clean, but vi is great for repetitive work.
[12:41] <Taim> and between the two, I don't want to hear about emacs.
[12:45] <LaserJock> there are a few emacs lovers around ;-)
[12:45] <LaserJock> I haven't edited in X enough to use gedit much though
[12:47] <Taim> I am stuck flipping between.  Mostly at work I am stuck with vi.
[12:47] <mdke> that's not so bad
[12:47] <mdke> lots are stuck with notepad :)
[12:47] <Taim> when at home, I tend to like gedit.  But that came from a love for nedit.
[12:48] <Taim> True, and I do use that as well...that and....<_<....>_>......office.
[12:48] <mdke> ouch
[12:48] <Taim> Most of our documentation is written in word, uploaded to the slowest repository known to man.
[12:48] <mdke> what do you do?
[12:49] <mdke> i tried searching the internet but found that you were a mythical character
[12:49] <Taim> AIX/Solaris support for a rather large financial company.
[12:49] <mdke> cool
[12:49] <Taim> I generally avoid posting more than techincal questions.
[12:50] <Taim> You will probably find a bit from m0n0wall archives, slashdot and some other stuff.
[12:50] <mdke> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mazrim_Taim
[12:50] <Taim> Yeap.  It was a much better choice than "Mandarb"
[12:51] <Taim> I am/was a huge Robert Jordan fan.
[12:51] <Taim> My real name is Tim, so it just kinda fit.
[12:51] <mdke> pleased to meet you Tim
[12:51] <Taim> and you.
[12:52] <LaserJock> hi Tim
[12:52] <Taim> Hello.
[12:52] <Taim> forgive me if I don't know your names :)  I generally have a hard time associating real/nick anymore.
[12:53] <Taim> Hello Jordan.  Nice to meet you.
[12:53] <mdke> a /whois generally does it
[12:54] <crimsun> robert jordan needs to be shot for allowing WoT to drag on and on and on...
[12:54] <Taim> He is suffering for it now.
[12:55] <crimsun> yeah, he has built up a readership that will cut his throat
[12:55] <LaserJock> WoT?
[12:55] <Taim> http://www.tor.com/jordan/
[12:55] <Taim> read the announcement
[12:55] <Taim> Wheel of Time.
[12:56] <Taim> Hello, Mat.  I don't use my real name in the "real name" field.
[12:57] <Taim> I probably should.  I just left it that way from WAY back when.
[12:57] <crimsun> yeah, we use our real names for easier identification in the Ubuntu developer community.
[12:57] <Taim> Makes sense.
[12:57] <mdke> either that, or LP needs to add searching on irc nick
[12:59] <LaserJock> mdke: yeah, the people searching isn't so good right now
[12:59] <Taim> Well...I can fix that.
[12:59] <Taim> let's see...
[01:02] <Taim> So how long have folks been documenting with Ubuntu?
[01:02] <LaserJock> ok, I'm off for a while, gotta take the inlaws shopping ;-)
[01:03] <LaserJock> Taim: since about Nov for me
[01:03] <Taim> later.
[01:03] <mdke> Taim: march or so last year
[01:03] <Taim> cool
[01:04] <Burgundavia> Taim: dec 2004 for myself
[01:04] <mdke> Taim: Burgundavia is our veteran ideas-man
[01:09] <Taim> Ah
[01:10] <Taim> Hello Burgundavia
[01:16] <Burgundavia> hey Taim
[01:16] <Burgundavia> mdke: that reminds me. we should revisit my png in svg in docbook idea for edgy
[01:17] <mdke> Burgundavia: I don't think I've heard that one
[01:28] <Taim> bbl.  Food is calling.
[01:28] <Taim> Thanks for the info!
[01:42] <rob> mdke still around?
[01:43] <mdke> rob: yes
[01:43] <rob> has planning started for edgy yet?
[01:43] <rob> or are we waiting to see what happens with the book?
[01:44] <mdke> i dunno
[01:44] <mdke> no harm in ideas
[01:44] <rob> I guess its kind of hard anyway considering all the new things that will be bought in for it
[01:45] <rob> I might keep hacking away at the online editor for the time being
[01:46] <mdke> ok
[01:51] <Burgundavia> mdke: you embed a screenshot in an svg, in order to annotate the screenshot, while still allowing translations
[01:53] <mdke> sounds crazy
[01:55] <Burgundavia> mdke: it sort of works in yelp, there were some rendering issues back in dec 2004
[01:56] <Burgundavia> haven't looked at it since
[03:41] <jjesse> mdke: i made some changes to kubuntu release notes and i don't see them up on doc.ubuntu.com can you update things?
[05:46] <Madpilot> hi Burgundavia
[05:48] <Burgundavia> salut Madpilot
[06:29] <jsgotangco> yo!
[06:29] <Madpilot> hi jsgotangco
[06:29] <jsgotangco> hey dude
[06:36] <jsgotangco> pretty quiet on all channels on a saturday/sunday huh
[06:46] <Madpilot> fairly quiet - #ubuntu is active but not really busy...
[06:59] <Burgundavia> salut jsgotangco
[06:59] <jsgotangco> hi
[07:05] <jsgotangco> Burgundavia: how's it going?
[07:07] <Burgundavia> jsgotangco, not bad. Having a major moral dilemma with regards to the whole Canonical hiring thing
[07:08] <Burgundavia> I am starting to enjoy my job, but truly think I need to follow my heart
[07:08] <jsgotangco> lol why not wait for a posting to happen before making a decision, after all its just 3 positions posted at the moment
[07:08] <Burgundavia> http://keithcu.com/wordpress/?p=27 <-- hmm
[07:08] <Burgundavia> jsgotangco, I am going to write my own job description, if I can
[07:09] <Burgundavia> mark did say they were looking fro sales/marketing people
[07:10] <Burgundavia> jsgotangco, you have lots to offer, don't say that
[07:10] <jsgotangco> just skimmed over the article, smart would be nice add-on but most people will think it'll allow cross installation between formats which isn't
[07:10] <jsgotangco> autopackage rates 0
[07:10] <jsgotangco> heh
[07:11] <Burgundavia> smart can offer that functionality, if somebody codes it
[07:11] <Burgundavia> I think the best thing about smart is that it offers the ability to switch out the backend without too much pain for the end user
[07:11] <jsgotangco> yes
[07:12] <jsgotangco> hmm for some reason, his write up reminds me of the two towers heh
[07:13] <Burgundavia> back to that article, I like his idea, but I think it would be taken as "ubuntu taking over debian"
[07:14] <jsgotangco> right, as much as Digium is literally Asterisk
[07:15] <Burgundavia> we have an asterix box at work
[07:16] <jsgotangco> that is fun
[07:16] <Burgundavia> not exactly the worlds most stable, but I have no comparison of equiv closed source systems
[07:16] <jsgotangco> there is no comparison to speak of really, flexibility is one thing that closed systems can't match
[07:17] <jsgotangco> the only thing that lacks is an IVR that can be configured graphically
[07:17] <Burgundavia> hence the VB you were writing
[07:17] <jsgotangco> yep its painful
[07:18] <jsgotangco> i wonder if i can replicate something in gambas
[07:18] <jsgotangco> Burgundavia: even Asterisk@home is a shock for most people installing it
[07:19] <jsgotangco> there's also Bayonne but its more suited for IVR, haven't really checked on it
[07:21] <jsgotangco> when i entered into telecoms i was literally clueluess
[07:22] <Burgundavia> indeed. One of the local lug guys works for a company that builds voicemail systems
[07:22] <Burgundavia> they tried using asterix and discovered it didn't scale, so they did their own
[07:23] <jsgotangco> its asterisk, not asterix, heh, that's a cartoon character
[07:24] <Burgundavia> yep, I always do that
[07:24] <jsgotangco> how's the book going?
[07:25] <Burgundavia> we are going to press soon
[07:25] <Burgundavia> it has largely been radio silence, but I have been paid
[07:25] <Burgundavia> ughh...
[07:25] <jsgotangco> wow
[07:25] <Burgundavia> I hate how flash breaks keyboard shortcuts
[07:25] <jsgotangco> so manuscript is done?
[07:25] <Burgundavia> I assume so
[07:26] <jsgotangco> how many pages total? 300+?
[07:26] <Burgundavia> no idea, tbh
[07:26] <jsgotangco> hmmm more than 300+ would be too much for a desktop reference IMO
[07:26] <Burgundavia> I haven't even seen the whole book
[07:26] <jsgotangco> why is that?
[07:26] <Burgundavia> apress book is 535
[07:27] <Burgundavia> because communication has been bad. Somewhat my fault for not asking more questions
[07:27] <Burgundavia> I have learned a lot with this book
[07:27] <jsgotangco> i haven't seen the apress book, but most books have filler material tbh
[07:28] <jsgotangco> on our part, we just passed review, we hvae been slow but it has been good experience as well...we just focused on meaty stuff
[07:28] <jsgotangco> i think the best decision we made was do everything on svn
[07:29] <Burgundavia> Madpilot, http://www.bccampus.ca/Page93.aspx
[07:29] <Burgundavia> apress book is not very focuses
[07:29] <Burgundavia> s/s/d
[07:29] <Burgundavia> but then again, our goes into Kubuntu and other things
[07:29] <jsgotangco> you could easily fill up 100 pages of basic stuff that can be read on the relase notes and installer guide
[07:29] <Burgundavia> yep
[07:30] <Madpilot> Burgundavia, cool. who is behind that?
[07:31] <Burgundavia> Madpilot, looks like bc open university and the creative commons canada people
[07:43] <Madpilot> Burgundavia, you saw the thing about Stats Canada allowing non-MS browsers now?
[08:02] <Burgundavia> Madpilot, yes, they now have a big thing about Linux users
[08:02] <Burgundavia> apparently they have caught a lot of heat for it
[08:02] <Madpilot> good
[08:02] <Burgundavia> probably some manager somewhere is wondering exactly how all the shit hit the fan so quickly
[08:02] <Burgundavia> shows the sheer power of the internet is organizing people
[08:03] <Madpilot> hehe - blogs+websites+mailing lists+misc other forums=major manure+ventilation moment ;)
[08:04] <Laser_away> well said :-)
[08:26] <Burgundavia> bleeding installer borked all over me...
[08:26] <Madpilot> again?
[08:27] <jsgotangco> lol
[08:27] <jsgotangco> i think its known
[08:27] <Madpilot> liveCD installer or the old one?
[08:30] <Burgundavia_> grumble
[08:30] <robitaille> the LiveCD installer has always worked for me...but there is a boat load of bug reports in LP about it...
[08:32] <robitaille> 94 open bug reports to be exact...
[08:33] <rob> its pretty good, I don't like the partitioner though
[08:34] <jsgotangco> i dont even use it at all
[08:34] <jsgotangco> call me old school whatever
[08:34] <Burgundavia_> the partioner needs serious work
[08:38] <rob> took even me a while to figure out what the heck was going on with it, not very user friendly though it tries to be
[08:40] <Burgundavia_> it needs some more basic modes, like d-i has "delete this partition and install ubuntu in the free space"
[08:52] <Madpilot> odd - I'm searching malone for a gLabels bug I remember commenting on last year, and can't find any glabels bugs at all...
[08:56] <jsgotangco> Burgundavia_: so after this book-writing experience do you want to do it again?
[08:57] <robitaille> Madpilot:   bug 1929 ?
[08:57] <robitaille> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/glabels/+bug/1929
[08:58] <Madpilot> thanks, robitaille - that was the bug I was looking for
[08:58] <Madpilot> now why the heck didn't a basic search for 'glabels' turn that up?
[08:58] <robitaille> already fixed bug will not appears in a default search
[08:59] <robitaille> you have to go in advance and click on a few extra option before searching
[09:01] <Madpilot> ah
[09:10] <Madpilot> I see - "fix commited" bugs always show up, but "fix released" bugs don't get listed in search, by default...
[09:16] <robitaille> Madpilot:  essentially whatever shows up in a default search are bugs that should be acted on at one point, including fix commited  The fix released ones are gone forever (hopefully...)
[09:16] <Madpilot> right
[09:17] <robitaille> which means we have to look for duplicates of Breezy bugs more often than not in already fixed bug reports...
[09:17] <Madpilot> makes sense, except when you're actually looking for an old bug ;) (someone on the forums was wondering about that image-import bug in glabels...)
[09:17] <Burgundavia_> robitaille, did you see that post about Ubuntu and bugs on lxer?
[09:19] <robitaille> Burgundavia_:  nope.  URL?
[09:20] <Burgundavia_> http://keithcu.com/wordpress/?p=27
[09:21] <robitaille> "While Ubuntu has 2 million customers"...wow  I never think of it that way...
[09:22] <Madpilot> we tend to think of "users", not "customers", I suspect ;)
[09:22] <Burgundavia_> I think the number is closer to 6 myself
[09:23] <Madpilot> Burgundavia_, doesn't that blog post boil down to "Ubuntu needs to control Debian" - which is, AFAIK, one of the things Mark was trying to avoid?
[09:23] <Burgundavia_> Madpilot, basically , yes
[09:25] <jsgotangco> Madpilot: all your base are belong to us
[09:25] <jsgotangco> heh
[09:25] <Madpilot> wonder how many "Ubuntu != Debian" emails that guy has gotten already?
[09:26] <robitaille> In my opinion,  Ubuntu needs a strong Debian.  Which was easier to achive when DEbian was a lot bigger than Ubuntu in number of users.  Now is a bit more complex of a relationship...
[09:27] <Burgundavia_> here is another interesting tidbit, but completely unrelated
[09:27] <Burgundavia_> until recently Ubuntu has been unchallenged at the top of the distrowatch charts
[09:27] <Burgundavia_> but recently suse has knocked Ubuntu off on the 7day charts
[09:27] <jsgotangco> its because suse just released a new version with a lot of bling
[09:28] <jsgotangco> it has n-m, xgl, compiz running
[09:28] <Burgundavia_> yep
[09:28] <jsgotangco> desktop bling will definitely drive traffic
[09:28] <Burgundavia_> but when suse 10 and fc5 came out, they didn't move up that much
[09:28] <jsgotangco> well suse 10 is utterly horrible imo
[09:29] <Burgundavia_> not tried it
[09:29] <Burgundavia_> if you I cannot get a distro in one cd, I am not going to bother
[09:29] <robitaille> there has been a lot of shifts in linux distro in the last 2 years.  Ubuntu was one change.  A  Suse is another.
[09:29] <jsgotangco> robitaille: that's true
[09:29] <jsgotangco> FC5 didnt really do anything revolutionary
[09:30] <robitaille> wasn't the unofficial business plan of Canonical to aim to be in the top 3 of a new "world order" of linux distro?
[09:30] <Burgundavia_> but fedora has slowly been shaking up their goverence and technical structure
[09:30] <crimsun> I think people are missing the point entirely with these "Ubuntu needs to do..." and "Debian needs to do..." blogs.
[09:30] <jsgotangco> what i'd like to see on a longer term is for debian-based systems to be more visible in the telephony space
[09:30] <jsgotangco> atm its basically redhat
[09:31] <jsgotangco> its the final frontier :)
[09:31] <Burgundavia_> well, see if mark will fund some work on asterisk and telelphony in ubuntu
[09:32] <Madpilot> Telbuntu? ;)
[09:32] <jsgotangco> Madpilot: its more complicated than that heh,
[09:32] <Kamping_Kaiser> ROFL
[09:32] <jsgotangco> Digium really sticks to RH-based for now
[09:33] <jsgotangco> every person who downloads @home automatically installs a CentOS box
[09:33] <jsgotangco> :)
[09:34] <Burgundavia_> what would it take to get @home to use a better distro
[09:34] <Burgundavia_> ?
[09:34] <Burgundavia_>  </troll>
[09:35] <jsgotangco> hmm just based on my experience, not a lot imo
[09:35] <jsgotangco> its just nicely packaged and rolled as one solution
[09:35] <jsgotangco> it even included the drivers fro interface cards based on zapata
[09:36] <jsgotangco> the kernel is probably patched even (not really sure)
[09:37] <jsgotangco> i gotta go to the grocer brb
[10:12] <Madpilot> night all
[10:47] <mdke> morning
[10:50] <Burgundavia_> salut mdke
[10:50] <mdke> hi Burgundavia_
[11:00] <mdke> http://mdke.org/tmp/help.png <-- what do people think of the tabs?
[11:16] <mdke> Burgundavia_:
[11:16] <mdke> http://mdke.org/tmp/help.png <-- what do people think of the tabs?
[11:17] <dsas> mdke: I quite like it, it's obvious where to go for the specific releases documents.
[11:19] <mdke> dsas: good. I couldn't think of anything shorter for the labels which would work nicely
[11:19] <dsas> Maybe another way would to be adopt the same tabs as ubuntu.com and add release specific documentation links to a right hand sidebar. It has the bonus of looking like the other ubuntu pages that way but has the disadvantage of making it harder to find release specific stuff.
[11:19] <dsas> it should be slightly longer: 6.06LTS (Dapper Drake) :p
[11:20] <mdke> yeah
[11:20] <mdke> a sidebar is not really an option
[11:20] <mdke> technically speaking
[11:22] <dsas> They bug me a lot of the time usability wise anyway.
[11:22] <dsas> just curious, how come they're not an option technically speaking?
[11:23] <mdke> well, because that header has to be on all the html we generate, and I just don't know we could put side tabs in, and I certainly don't have time to figure out if it's possible
[11:27] <dsas> ahh, is the header in svn?
[11:29] <Burgundavia_> the sidebar is a hack heno did for ubuntu.com
[11:29] <mdke> it's in the stylesheets we use to build html from xml
[11:29] <Burgundavia_> mdke, they look good
[11:32] <mdke> dsas: so that way, they'll be on every page of html we build
[11:32] <mdke> Burgundavia_: cool
[11:32] <dsas> mdke: Ahh ok, that wouldn't be a good thing.
[11:38] <mpt_> oh, there are tabs!
[11:38] <mpt_> mdke, those tabs are in the same place as the ones on ubuntu.com that aren't really useful
[11:38] <mpt_> so it wouldn't surprise me if people didn't notice them at all
[11:39] <mpt_> perhaps move them over to the left?
[11:39] <mdke> mpt_: and move the "ubuntu documentation" image to the right?
[11:40] <mpt_> no, one above the other
[11:41] <mdke> hmmm
[11:41] <mdke> lemme see
[11:44] <mdke> mpt_: it looks pretty bad :)
[11:44] <mdke> http://mdke.org/tmp/help2.png
[11:45] <Burgundavia_> mdke, for now, I think stick with the ubuntu.com style, but I think we should look at a website revamp in the next little bit
[11:47] <Burgundavia_> as, to move the tabs left means that we would eat up more precious vertical screen real estate
[05:13] <janimo> mdke: hi
[05:14] <janimo> can the pot file go anywhere in the xubuntu-doc package?
[05:31] <mdke> janimo: well, yes, I think so.
[05:31] <mdke> janimo: you don't ship the xml do you?
[05:31] <janimo> mdke: don;t think so. Did not spend much on the docs package so far
[05:31] <janimo> I think it's html only though
[05:32] <mdke> janimo: it just needs to be in the source, not the binary
[05:32] <mdke> so if you include it where it currently is, that will be fine
[05:32] <janimo> currently you mean the current package
[05:32] <mdke> I mean, as it is in our branch
[05:33] <mdke> at xubuntu/desktopguide/desktopguide.pot
[05:33] <janimo> yes, I include it there
[05:33] <mdke> cool
[05:33] <janimo> I thought you meant the xml files
[05:33] <janimo> thanks
[05:33] <janimo> so wehn it's uploaded rosetta admins need to be notified?
[05:33] <mdke> janimo: give me a ping when you've uploaded, and I'll talk to the rosetta guys
[05:33] <janimo> ok, thanks :)
[05:34] <mdke> janimo: also, give a little bit of thought to how to include the translations, when they arrive. I don't know what help viewer you use or how it works
[05:34] <janimo> firefox :)
[05:34] <mdke> ah.
[05:35] <janimo> I guess the regular C/ XX/ YY/ locale thing
[05:35] <janimo> subdirs
[05:35] <mdke> how do users find the documentation in the first place?
[05:35] <janimo> not there yet, but I plan to put a link iin the startup menu
[05:35] <janimo> now there;s ans xfce help entry there
[05:35] <mdke> right. So all that is necessary is for that link to be localisable
[05:35] <janimo> near that or instead of that I guess
[05:36] <janimo> yes, I'll need to give some tought to that as well
[05:36] <mdke> great, sounds like it will be doable
[05:36] <janimo> a bit late I guess but I think it is doable
[05:36] <mdke> janimo: as the translation string freeze is this week, the infrastructure should get in place asap, if possible
[05:37] <janimo> yup
[05:37] <mdke> once that is done, it is easy to add more advanced translations post-release
[07:01] <hybrid> howdy everyone
[07:02] <mdke> howdy
[10:47] <luzi> mdke ?
[10:47] <mdke> luzi: !
[10:47] <luzi> xubuntu-docs has been uploaded.
[10:47] <mdke> luzi: great
[10:48] <luzi> mdke, you were going to talk to rosetta people about it, right?
[10:49] <mdke> luzi: yes, I'll post to the mailing list when everything is working
[10:50] <luzi> mdke, is there anything else i need to do at the moment?
[10:51] <mdke> luzi: nope, it's in rosetta now, it just needs one of the admins to approve it to start translation
[10:52] <luzi> ok, nice. i'll call that my cue to go to bed then :o)
[10:52] <mdke> me too, g'night
[10:52] <luzi> bye
[10:53] <LaserJock> hi mdke, how's it going?
[10:53] <LaserJock> busy, busy, busy?
[10:53] <mdke> LaserJock: yeah, pretty busy
[10:54] <LaserJock> translations mostly, I'm guessing?
[10:55] <mdke> yes, and real work
[10:56] <LaserJock> oh yeah, that ...
[10:56] <mdke> i need to do some ironing too
[10:57] <LaserJock> I just keep seeing more and more Ubuntu work to do
[11:00] <mdke> heh
[11:28] <crimsun> yay, my work is done. There are no more bugs.
[11:28] <LaserJock> hehe
[11:30] <jjesse> mdke: are the release notes for kubuntu current on doc.ubuntu.com?
[11:41] <mdke> ah hi jjesse
[11:41] <mdke> jjesse: I don't know to be honest. Yesterday I saw they didn't build so I fixed some things, you should check what I've done
[11:42] <jjesse> mdke: ok will do
[11:42] <mdke> jjesse: it's vital to check stuff validates before uploading it, otherwise all the builds break together
[11:42] <jjesse> mdke: sorry thought i validated it before i commited
[11:42] <mdke> heh
[11:42] <mdke> it was seriously broken
[11:43] <jjesse> grin that's what i get for working on it when i was laying in bed :(
[11:43] <mdke> jjesse: basically everything goes on doc.u.c if it is included in the "all" target in the kubuntu Makefile, and it builds properly
[11:43] <mdke> so it should be up to date now
[11:44] <mdke> jjesse: are the releasenotes nearly finished?
[11:44] <jjesse> ok, i'll verify and go to work, want to make sure DapperReleaseNotes/Kubuntu matches with what is on the docs
[11:44] <mdke> cool
[11:44] <jjesse> mdke: they should be i wouldn't see why there would be any changes from now on
[11:45] <mdke> great, then maybe we can stick them in rosetta in the next couple of days
[11:46] <jjesse> ok, i'll follow up with riddell to see any changes need to be made and then i'll let you know so we can get them uploaded
[11:46] <mdke> great


[01:03] <CIA-3> debian-installer: cjwatson * r1290 ubuntu/ (57 files in 2 dirs): Update help text translations from Launchpad.
[05:53] <superm1> ev, is there a particular reason that usb-creator appends noprompt to the default kernel command line?  wouldn't the users still want to remove the usb disk so it wasn't booted off the next time?
[08:33] <CIA-3> ubiquity: ogra * r4095 ubiquity/ (debian/changelog debian/control scripts/install.py): add support for omap bootloader installation
[08:33] <CIA-3> ubiquity: ogra * r4096 ubiquity/debian/changelog: releasing version 2.2.19
[09:21] <CIA-3> ubiquity: evand * r4096 ubiquity/ (debian/changelog debian/control scripts/install.py): Merge with ogra's branch for ubiquity 2.1.19.
[09:44] <CIA-3> ubiquity: evand * r4097 ubiquity/debian/changelog: releasing version 2.2.20
[10:24] <ev> hrm, "Try Ubuntu" on a USB disk with persistence enabled takes quite a bit as a update-initramfs trigger runs for console-setup, but I suppose that's unavoidable/desirable.
[11:00] <xivulon> ev on the forum the only issue worth investigating seems to be: http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=9140185&postcount=110 (no root)
[11:09] <xivulon> davmor2, any issue on your side I should be aware of?
[11:10] <davmor2> xivulon: not that I'm aware of I'll be doing some testing latter though so I'll keep you in the loop with that
[11:24] <dmarkey> cjwatson: change freeze on 10.04 yet? :)
[11:30] <cjwatson> dmarkey: yep
[11:37] <dmarkey> cjwatson: ah i was just kidding. Anyway i'd just like to thank you for all your time/support in trying to get xen support in 10.04!
[12:30] <ev> Can someone spot-check this: http://paste.ubuntu.com/418527/
[12:38] <ev> erm, perhaps I should've been less open given the time of day.  cjwatson, do you have a minute to look that over?  No rush, but perhaps we can sneak it onto the RC.
[13:08] <rgreening> ev: ping
[13:09] <rgreening> ev: bug 566390 seems important. Format button should be disabled if partition is not FAT and set the NEEDS_FORMAT.. yes?
[13:16] <cjwatson> ev: I'm not sure I'm comfortable with that; it seems like "you answered a question a bit differently, so we'll nuke your data" which worries me
[13:16] <cjwatson> ev: maybe this should just be an explicit error?
[13:16] <cjwatson> but early enough to allow better recovery
[13:41] <ev> rgreening: do you mean the Install button?  In the case of the partition being something other than FAT, their only recourse is to erase the disk.
[13:42] <ev> cjwatson: I'm not convinced it should be an error, given that its our combination of having ecryptfs copied to their system and then removed that's causing the bug in the first place.
[13:42] <rgreening> I think the bug indicates that the Make Startup Disk button is enabled, even though the partition isnt of correct type.
[13:42] <rgreening> ev: ^
[13:42] <ev> rgreening: right, that's what I mean
[13:43] <ev> you said "format button should be disabled"
[13:43] <rgreening> my bad
[13:43] <rgreening> sleeptalking
[13:43] <rgreening> :)
[13:43] <ev> heh
[13:44] <cjwatson> ev: well, maybe, but removing their .ecryptfs while keeping the rest of their home directory seems like it could well be undesired, too
[13:45] <cjwatson> since that may essentially render their home directory contents useless
[13:45] <ev> yeah, you're right
[13:45] <ev> okay
[13:45] <ev> error it is
[13:45] <cjwatson> it seems like a sort of "we can't deal with this situation yet" error
[13:45] <cjwatson> as in not technically a real error but ...
[13:47] <ev> I don't suppose there's a nice utility to un-ecryptfs a home directory?  Not for us to use, but to point the user at in this situation.
[13:47] <ev> kirkland`: ?
[13:48] <ev> ah, google is my friend
[14:05] <CIA-3> usb-creator: evand * r303 usb-creator/ (debian/changelog usbcreator/frontends/gtk/frontend.py):
[14:05] <CIA-3> usb-creator: Continue evaluting whether or not a partition can be used even if
[14:05] <CIA-3> usb-creator: there is no source present (LP: #566390).
[14:05] <ev> ^ rgreening that fixes it for me in the GTK frontend
[14:07] <rgreening> thanks ev. I'll have a look
[14:12] <ev> cjwatson: oo, perhaps I'm trying to be too clever for my own good, but what if we solve this by forcing the encrypted home option in user-setup when / or /home is not marked to be formatted but ~/.ecryptfs is present.
[14:13] <cjwatson> that's another option, sure - if anything else is going to give another error anyway ...
[14:13] <cjwatson> I wonder whether it would confuse people more or less.  I'm not sure
[14:18] <rgreening> ev: that enables the Make Startup Disk even is SOURCE_IMG is not available or selected. It shouldn't enabled the Make Startup Disk (install button) technically...
[14:19] <rgreening> its close though... :P
[14:19] <ev> damn :)
[14:19] <ev> sorry, I rushed that one
[14:19] <rgreening> np. thats what you have me for ;)
[14:19] <rgreening> ha
[14:19] <ev> cjwatson: talked with mpt about it, he thinks the radio button approach is acceptable, for what it's worth
[14:19] <ev> rgreening: :D
[14:20] <ev> this does mean that we'll be mounting what will be / and (optionally) /home, which is a bit disgusting, but I cannot think of a more elegant approach
[14:20] <ev> mounting in user-setup, that is
[14:23] <ev> cjwatson: sorry about chatting with mpt offline, I need to be more cognisant of the fact that it doesn't give you an equal voice in the conversation
[14:35] <ev> nevermind the comment about mounting them in user-setup, I'll do it in partman-target and pass it through debconf.
[14:41] <rgreening> ev: just testing that bug further and I cannot reproduce the situation with 0.2.22 as user claims with either gtk or kde version.. strange
[14:42] <ev> rgreening: start usb-creator without a disk plugged in, then plug it in before or after you select a source image
[14:42] <rgreening> ev: ok. I'll try that ( I have the stick inserted and part mounted)
[14:44] <rgreening> ev: It only occurs if you mount the partition manually outside creator (at least in the gtk one). I'll verify in kde one.
[14:44] <ev> no, it occurred for me without manually mounting it
[14:45] <rgreening> hmm... ok, I couldn't get that to occur.
[14:46] <rgreening> as Free Space was not showing anything and therefore part was unavailable. Could it be that the Gnome Desktop auto mounted it for you?
[14:46] <rgreening> KDE doesnt automount
[14:46] <ev> right
[14:46] <ev> ah
[14:46] <rgreening> by default
[14:46] <rgreening> so, its a bug... triggered if outside app automounts the partition
[14:47] <rgreening> ev: I can confirm behaviour now based on this in both apps. I'll try and update your fix now.
[14:47] <ev> thanks
[14:48] <rgreening> np
[14:48] <rgreening> ev: got it. will upload now
[14:52] <rgreening> after testing gtk frontend of course (kde on works correctly now)
[14:55] <rgreening> ev: ok, I can make the kde one work as expected. hell if I can get the gtk one to work.
[14:57] <rgreening> ev: I think its cause you do not start with Make Startup Disk set to disabled (which should be the correct default). Thats what KDE frontend does.
[14:57] <ev> rgreening: okay, I'll look into it once I'm done with this encrypted home bug
[14:58] <rgreening> np ev. I'll keep poking at it. I'll upload the kde fix in the mean time
[14:58] <ev> rgreening: by upload do you mean commit?
[14:58] <rgreening> ya
[14:58] <ev> okay, cool
[15:11] <cjwatson> ev: forcing the radio button?  it's OK to me
[15:11] <cjwatson> by me
[15:11] <cjwatson> michaelforrest: FYI, I discussed the splash screen with sabdfl, and he said to me that he only wants the text/logo blanked but doesn't want the bottom icons removed
[15:11] <cjwatson> michaelforrest: so I implemented that last night
[15:14] <michaelforrest> cjwatson: ok thanks
[15:28] <CIA-3> usb-creator: rgreening * r304 trunk/usbcreator/frontends/kde/frontend.py:
[15:28] <CIA-3> usb-creator: Update check in kde frontend which verifies we CAN_USE selected partition and if not
[15:28] <CIA-3> usb-creator: tell user it needs formatting.
[15:29] <rgreening> ev: can you review that change? It works for KDE frontend, but similar does not under gtk one. dunno why.
[15:29] <ev> yes, once I'm done with this encrypted home stuff
[15:29] <rgreening> ev: oh, and needed to add back the msg about requiring format.
[15:30] <ev> whoa, why?
[15:30] <rgreening> you'll see when you look at the diff
[15:30] <ev> ominous, but okay :)
[15:30] <rgreening> makes complete ui sense
[15:30] <rgreening> otherwise user doesn't know why the make startup button is still disabled
[15:31] <rgreening> :)
[15:35] <ev> yeah, I'm really, really keen on not re-enabling that in Lucid given how poorly it functioned previously and how far into the freeze we are.  They'll find the format button quickly enough.
[15:35] <ev> but I'll look at the patch when I get a chance
[15:38] <rgreening> ev: yeah, I only enabled the 'label' per-se.
[15:38] <rgreening> to allow the user some reason why or what to do next.
[15:39] <rgreening> ev: will you setup a UI review session for usb-creator for UDS. I think we really need to look at this.
[15:40] <rgreening> from a usability perspective.. maybe we can get seele to join/assist.
[15:40] <ev> sure
[15:41] <rgreening> cool.
[15:41] <rgreening> :P
[15:48] <ev> cjwatson: entirely untested, but does this look okay in principal: http://paste.ubuntu.com/418636/ http://paste.ubuntu.com/418637/ http://paste.ubuntu.com/418638/
[15:49] <ev> mm, I should probably handle that question not existing in partman-target
[15:49] <cjwatson> ev: we're going to mount those partitions anyway, so why not do the check after doing so?
[15:49] <cjwatson> oh, because ubiquity isn't ordered that way :-(
[15:49] <ev> indeed
[15:51] <cjwatson> yes, seems OK in principle
[15:51] <ev> okay, cool.  I'll start testing it then
[15:51] <ev> thanks
[16:46]  * cjwatson tries to work out why grub-installer/bootdev's translation isn't being used
[17:18] <cjwatson> oh argh, it was due to a string change I didn't record in my usual place for end-of-cycle translation updates
[17:29]  * cjwatson dives down rabbit-hole of broken cron jobs
[17:59] <CIA-3> partman-target: evand * r793 ubuntu/ (3 files in 2 dirs):
[17:59] <CIA-3> partman-target: Notify user-setup that there is an encrypted home partition present
[17:59] <CIA-3> partman-target: (LP: #566552).
[17:59] <CIA-3> user-setup: evand * r220 ubuntu/ (3 files in 2 dirs): Allow forcing the encrypted home option (LP: #566552).
[18:00] <CIA-3> ubiquity: evand * r4098 ubiquity/ (debian/changelog ubiquity/components/ubi-usersetup.py): Honor user-setup/force-encrypt-home (LP: #566552).
[18:19] <sweeze> for https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/casper/+bug/565047 , what's the best way of building an install image w/ xhci (usb 3.0) support?  -- or are there other approaches I should be trying?
[18:46] <ev> so I've tested the encrypted home fix by touching /target/home/evan/.ecryptfs.  I've set up a VM with a real encrypted home install on it to test tonight/tomorrow and I'll give the alternate CD a go with that as well.
[18:48] <ev> sweeze: attaching /casper.log from the initramfs might help get to the bottom of your bug: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingCasper#casper and kernel log files
[18:49] <sweeze> ev:  doesn't appear to be any way to get casper.log off the machine:  usb key not showing up in /dev/sd*, and no network....
[20:58] <sweeze> ok, managed to get casper.log & dmesg log off the machine through the built in SD-cart slot, updated bug with those logs


[09:21] <knome> bluesabre, "poke the database", i can do that today
[09:45] <bluesabre> thanks knome
[09:47] <knome> ok, i'm pretty sure it should start working sometime soonish, the database is now set
[09:58] <knome> bluesabre, should be set now
[10:04] <knome> also fixed the display for https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pyxdg/+bug/1833863, now uses htmlentities()
[10:06] <bluesabre> thanks again knome!
[12:12] <knome> np
[17:00] -SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- Reminder: Next meeting chair is knome
[17:16] <knome> haha.
[17:16] <knome> well cheers... but isn't it the council who starts the cycle meetings :P
[20:09] <ochosi> bluesabre: thanks for kicking of the cycle with the blueprints and branches
[22:06] <Unit193> knome: It's just going on what the wiki says. :D


[05:47] <pwchi> How to setting networkd [DHCPv4] SendRelease=yes with NetPlan ?
[05:47] <pwchi> How to setting networkd [DHCPv4] SendRelease=no with NetPlan ?
[05:55] <pwchi> I'm not found systemd-networkd SendRelease=no properties have mapping to netplan.
[09:07] <bjne> Is it not possible to set RES_OPTIONS for nameservers via netplan?


[02:05] <valorie> @Olivia Lane that's not how this works
[02:05] <valorie> you have entered a help channel and anything else is off-topic
[02:08] <heavyarms> uuhh
[02:48] <baltazar> ... I have being ahving issues with a Kubuntu install on an AMD system having exesively slow startup times... an abandone bug...
[02:55] <baltazar> times vary, from 1 minute 16 seconds to 8 minutes...
[03:10] <tomreyn> baltazar: press escape, see where it hangs
[03:10] <tomreyn> baltazar: also run (and read man pages of): systemd-analyze critical chain; systemd-analyze blame
[03:20] <chealer> hi. is there an issue with KOrganizer reminders in 19.04? fresh install. I have been using KOrganizer for over a decade and I think they've always been unreliable, but I've never seen 5 fail straight. it looks like all reminders are failing to trigger. all set to display a dialog box (the default).
[03:25] <baltazar> I have... even tried to get some of the fixes that were mention regarding haveged ... I just gave up on it and tried to install in an slightly different manner... which is a bit counter intuitive. I just disabled AHCI and reinstalled... but times suck considering I have an SSD... 1.06 minutes... or more.
[03:36] <valorie> hmmm, I guess I would ask in #kontact about korganizer
[03:36] <valorie> baltazar: that startup does sound really slow
[03:38] <tomreyn> also disabling AHCI sounds just wrong
[03:38] <tomreyn> and the issue which some tried to work around using haveged should long be fixed
[03:39] <tomreyn> but then we don't know what / which version you're actually trying to install
[04:10] <baltazar> I have Kubuntu 18.04.2 ... fresh install... and yes, this issue has not been actually fixed. The one thing about that bug is that it seems to affect AMD hardware since my Intel machine with the same version of Kubuntu starts fast.
[04:15] <baltazar> Also... the bug report is not clear as to an actual fix.
[06:02] <lordievader> Good morning
[06:24] <Snt> hey. does anybody know where exactly can i send a bugreport about 19.04?
[06:24] <krytarik> !bugs | Snt
[06:25] <Snt> 10x
[06:28] <Snt> https://community.kde.org/Get_Involved/Bug_Reporting
[06:29] <Snt> too complicated. is there any simple way?
[06:33] <krytarik> Snt: It would seem you missed the advice I had the bot put for you above?
[06:35] <Snt> i have seen it, thank you. it is too complicated way. i am a casual linux user
[06:37] <krytarik> Ah ok, because you linked a totally different guide, and that also isn't linked on the page that the bot referred you to.
[06:38] <Snt> i have read your page first
[06:39] <Snt> after that googled and find another page https://community.kde.org/Get_Involved/Bug_Reporting
[06:39] <Snt> so tried them both
[06:39] <krytarik> Also, I'm not particularly sure what'd be so complicated about 1.) creating a Launchpad account and 2.) running "ubuntu-bug <package>"
[06:42] <Snt> //
[06:42] <Snt> //
[06:42] <Snt> well. anyway. if someone from the developers' team reads this IRC log,
[06:42] <Snt> non-technical person. not much experiense with linux.
[06:42] <Snt> vmware15, win10+1050Ti outside, clean kubuntu-19.04-desktop-amd64.iso install.
[06:42] <Snt> can't change resolution in system settings - display and monitor:
[06:44] <Snt> https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/WV7QH46V8H/
[09:44] <BluesKaj> 'Morning folks
 @BluesKaj, Morning!
 @Snt, Mught it be that you have not installed the VirtualBox guest editions (kind of the drivers for the virtual machine)?
[09:53] <BluesKaj> Hi Linuxophil, yes i think guest additions is an option (dunno why) in the VB/VM. It should be default.
[09:53] <BluesKaj> err editions
 @BluesKaj, I agree completely. They should be included on every major distros isos. I think the distros do themselves a disservice by not including them by default. Most new users don't know what's missing and just think that the distro they try is not performing well. Have even seen youtubers coming to that conclusion.
[09:55] <BluesKaj> it is additions, not editions
 @BluesKaj, Lol! Yes, you are so very correct sir! (/me going into the corner and lower my head in shame)
[09:58] <BluesKaj> no need to be shamed, lots of us make that mistake
[10:00] <BluesKaj> I've only used VB a couple of times and found it lacking, so i don't bother with VMs anymore . Also tried kvm/qemu with the same result
[10:02] <BluesKaj> i just bought another hdd and used that in a dual boot system for a while, but ai eventually dumped windows altogether and stuck with linux OSs on both drives
 @BluesKaj, Well, but for just having a go with a new iteration of a known system, it is very convenient.
[10:06] <BluesKaj> We all find methods and uses that suit our needs and wants.i was merely telling about mine :-)
[10:55] <chealer> (re-asking) Is there an issue with KOrganizer reminders in 19.04? I use a fresh install. I have been using KOrganizer for over a decade and I think they've always been unreliable, but I've never seen 5 fail straight. it looks like all reminders are failing to trigger. They are all set to display a dialog box (the default).
 <Linuxophil> @Snt, Mught it be that you have not installed the VirtualBox guest editions (kind of the drivers for the virtual machine)?
 Hi Linuxophil, yes i think guest additions is an option (dunno why) in the VB/VM. It should be default.
[11:11] <Snt> negative on that
[11:11] <Snt> my case is about vmware. not virtualbox
[11:12] <Snt> second. all modern *buntu come with open-vmware tools inside
[11:13] <Snt> third. i tried to work with two different vmware tools versions - tools from ubuntu, and tools from vmware itself, and then without tools at all
[11:13] <Snt> did not help
[11:13] <BluesKaj> Snt, ok, wasn't aware vmware was open source on linux
[11:14] <Snt> i have installed ubuntu-mate, kubuntu, lubuntu and xubuntu. the problem is in kubuntu only
[11:14] <Snt> BluesKaj> Snt, ok, wasn't aware vmware was open source on linux  --  tools only. vmware is still costs money
[11:16] <BluesKaj> ahh
 @EEElton Disabling Baloo was enough?
 @jorgetech_spacebiker, I'm not sure.
 It still a little slow when doing basic tasks.
 The desktop effects sometimes takes some time to respond and so on.
 If your computer is fast enough maybe it's a semi-faulty drive or filesystem problem
 @EEElton, It should be fast enough.
 And the SMART status of the drive, shows that's it's okay.
 When I was transferring files to the hard drive, it was pretty slow
 As a last resort you could try a file system check in case it has inconsistencies. If not I don't have a clue, it could be a bad drive (bad in the sense of low performance)
[12:28] <lordievader> EEElton, could you pastebin the SMART values?
 An i7 with a recent enogh AMD should smoke Kubuntu. As a comparison I have a Xeon E5450 with 4 GB DDR3 RAM and Radeon R5 230, it is very smooth
[12:29] <lordievader> I.e. output of `sudo smartctl -a /dev/<drive-name>`?
[14:00] <user|6391> привіт!
[14:01] <user|6391> Hello! I need help! :)
[14:26] <viewer|78> Hi guys, I need help installing an Epson TM-T20II printer on Kununtu 18.04. I downloaded the drivers from this page (https://www.epson-biz.com/modules/pos/index.php?page=single_soft&cid=3731) but after I installed the printer does not print...
[14:57] <viewer|78> Someone???
[14:58] <BluesKaj> viewer|78,  afaik, epson printers on linux are notvery well supported
 @lordievader, I'm gonna try sharing the SMART VALUES
 (Photo, 1137x978) https://irc-attachments.kde.org/4X4HFtFt/file_14927.jpg That's the SMART data for the hard disk. i'll send a screenshot of the system monitor. What this tells me mostly is that there shouldn't be anything major wrong with the hard drive. Yet when i was transferring files to it, the entire system was very slow. Even after transferring files, desktop effects would get slow and the like.
 (Photo, 898x897) https://irc-attachments.kde.org/F0bhBr5N/file_14928.jpg The system menu, I'm barely using the system resources, and yet desktop effects can be quite slow. Some apps fail to open either, or close. VLC for instance.
[15:37] <viewer|78> I think I'm doing something wrong when I'm installing it...
[15:38] <arran> Hello Regarding Kaffeine
[15:38] <viewer|78> Kubuntu show it twice a discovered network printers, but I'm not entirely sure what I need to write in address/queue...
[15:39] <BluesKaj> viewer|78, use the compters IP address on the network
[15:39] <BluesKaj> computer's
[15:40] <BluesKaj> that the printer is connected to
[15:40] <viewer|78> I config the printer to use <IP_ADDRESS>, but what I put on queue? and how do I write the address? ldp://<IP_ADDRESS>???
[15:40] <arran>  I have successfully installed Kaffeine on my Kubuntu 18.04 and after the usual procedere to fetch the channels I have to say a lot are missing. Not a single mention of Swiss TV, not of several German stations.
[15:41] <arran> When I change back to the 14.04 version I have no problems at all the get these channels. It looks to me, the Station list is still stone old.
[16:11] <viewer|78> Cool, I installed using socket://<IP_ADDRESS> but it only send blank pages :@
[16:11] <tomreyn> EEElton: 16 bad sectors suggests the disk may die sooner than you'd normally expect. it doesn't have to, but that's not ideal after 1.5y of operation. but you're fine with recent, complete and proven restorable backups. you should review your system journal next (journalctl -b)
[16:20] <jackcy> good afternoon - is this the right place to ask about 19.04 issues?
[16:48] <AlphetaCS> I'm running into a crash but I'm not sure how to start to troubleshoot
[16:50] <AlphetaCS> If I close a window the fall apart animation runs. If I then immediately switch desktops (which invokes the cube animation) I get a crash
[16:52] <AlphetaCS> I would report it since the Developer Information tab indicates the crash information is useful, but the Report Bug button is disabled
[16:55] <AlphetaCS> I'm not finding much on the web except intel graphics driver bugs from 2015
[16:55] <AlphetaCS> What's the best course of action for me to take?
[19:15] <BluesKaj> AlphetaCS, system settings>hardware>display&monitor>compositor>set OpenGL to 3.1
[19:15] <BluesKaj> .
 Where is the right place to get help with dual boot problems specifically that the kubuntu installer doesn't see windows and just offers to use the whole disk or manual, even when there is empty space for an installation alongside win.
[19:16] <AlphetaCS> Thanks BluesKaj, I made this adjustment and I'll see how it goes
[19:18] <BluesKaj> AlphetaCS,  assuming your computer is less tha 2 yrs old and can handle the graphical settings above
[19:18] <AlphetaCS> BluesKaj, i7 4th gen, 32gb ram, ssd drive - it should be fine
[19:18] <BluesKaj> yup
[19:22] <BluesKaj> bauchhaus, use manual partitioning and set the mountpoint for / (root) on the space/partition beside windows as ext4 then proceed with the installation
[19:26] <BluesKaj> bauchhaus, make sure the space beside windows is a partition. You may have to gparted in your USB or disc to create that partition first before doing the above
[19:27] <BluesKaj> *use gparted
 BluesKaj: that's what I did, now I can't boot into windows any more.
 uptade-grub doesn't see the windows partition
[19:31] <BluesKaj> bauchhaus, think you need to install grub to the /boot/efi partition created by windows
[19:32] <BluesKaj> it should be about 512 mb
[19:32] <BluesKaj> fat32
[19:35] <BluesKaj> you may need to unmount it first
 i have a fat32 partiton with boot/efi, i tried to install grub to the whole disk or that partition both same issue, no  more windows.
[19:38] <BluesKaj> bauchhaus, suggest you ask in ##linux chat, there are grub and efi experts there
 BluesKay: it's the first partition on the nvme01 drive
 I think I should post it in a forum and then point to this, as it's a complex issue and i already tried so many things
[19:39] <BluesKaj> yes bauchhaus,  I suggest you ask in the ##linux chat
 ok
[19:41] <BluesKaj> I think I'm missing something in my method, they'll help you restore grub with windows listed
 BluesKaj: i posted it here: https://askubuntu.com/questions/1136515/ubuntu-installer-and-grub-dont-see-windows-installation
 @EEElton, Apps failing to open could indicate a more serious issue related to the hard drive or file system
[23:20] <Guest97960> ребята всем привет, пользуюсь убунтой много впремени, однако столкнулся с непонятной до селе проблемой, с установкой oracle java
[23:20] <Guest97960> os : Linux FBook 5.0.0-13-generic #14-Ubuntu SMP Mon Apr 15 14:59:14 UTC 2019 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux
[23:21] <Guest97960> добавил репо : sudo add-apt-repository ppa:webupd8team/java\
[23:21] <Guest97960> обновил пакеты , sudo apt-get install oracle-java8-installer - выдает кандедт на установку не найден
[23:22] <Guest97960> ктонибуть подскажите куда копать ?
[23:25] <ca_cabo> hey all, i've recently had an issue on kubuntu 19.04 where the system text is tiny. Adjust resolution or scaling doesn't change anything - it's only the text on like window titles, or all the text in the terminal, if i open a web browser though all text is normal size except for the window title and menu options
[23:31] <FelixErnst-M> Is the font in System Settings/Fonts/Window Title Font set to something tiny?
[23:45] <ca_cabo> FelixErnst-M, I tried adjusting those just now - it doesn't fix it, I'm rebooting now to see if that helps
[23:47] <ca_cabo> FelixErnst-M, no that didn't change it
[23:51] <ca_cabo> FelixErnst-M, oh nevermind! it did work, thanks!


[05:18] <RedSingularity> vish: available?
[05:22] <vish> RedSingularity: hey..
[05:26] <RedSingularity> vish: Hey buddy.  I need you to do me an honorable thing.  My membership is about to expire......
[05:27] <paultag> RedSingularity: pfft :)
[05:27] <paultag> RedSingularity: vish accepts bribes you know.
[05:27] <paultag> Cookies. No one hates cookies
[05:28] <vish> paultag: sssh! not on logged channels.. :(
[05:28] <vish> ;p
[05:28] <paultag> vish: ;)
[05:28] <RedSingularity> paultag: where do you think we are?  Politics man!?!?!
[05:28] <RedSingularity> bahhhh bribes
[05:28] <paultag> RedSingularity: hey! vish works hard! :)
[05:28] <vish> yea!!
[05:28] <paultag> RedSingularity: are you saying he is not bribe-worthy?
[05:29]  * vish takes finger off the button.. and waits.. ;)
[05:29] <RedSingularity> I just think many people frown on that sort of thing!
[05:29] <RedSingularity> I dont make the rules!!
[05:29] <paultag> :P
[05:29] <vish> OK.. not extending it.. :/
[05:29] <paultag> RedSingularity: vish: Hope the two of you are well, long time no chat (with both of you guys :) )
[05:30] <vish> paultag: yea, good.. :)
[05:30] <paultag> vish: If it's anything to you, I'd bribe you all day :)
[05:30] <RedSingularity> Good to see you paultag!
[05:30] <vish> :)
[05:30] <vish> RedSingularity: btw, which membership, Mentorship or BC?
[05:30] <RedSingularity> vish: bug squad my dear
[05:31] <RedSingularity> the INFAMOUS bug squad!!
[05:31] <vish> RedSingularity: OK, save your cash for pedro_ then :D , i dont have the authorotor!!
[05:32] <RedSingularity> vish: ohhh my word.  What are we going to do about this?
[05:32] <vish> RedSingularity: tomorrow he or hggdh should be around..
[05:33] <RedSingularity> vish: so will my lawyer.  paultag knows how I am about that.
[05:33] <vish> haha!
[05:33] <paultag> >:D
[05:33] <RedSingularity> LOLOL
[05:33] <RedSingularity> vish: no prob.  I will ask em tomorrow ;)
[05:34] <vish> cool!
[05:34] <RedSingularity> But I was just heading to bed.  Gnite vish AND OF COURSE paultag
[05:34] <RedSingularity> talk soon :)
[05:34] <paultag> RedSingularity: good night my friend. Don't do anything I'd not
[05:34] <vish> gnite..
[05:34] <RedSingularity> LOL
[05:36] <paultag> yeah speaking of bed, I'm wiped. Just got back from the Github drinkup
[05:36] <paultag> much love. night vish :)
[05:37] <vish> nite paultag :)
[06:07] <micahg> RedSingularity: you should be able to renew yourself for bugsquad I thought
[09:17] <veger> bug 577560
[09:17] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 577560 in plasma-widget-networkmanagement (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "can't connect to WPA2 Entreprise using PEAP and MSCHAPv2 (affects: 7) (heat: 36)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/577560
[09:18] <veger> a proposed upstream patch fixes the problem, what should I do with this report?
[09:18] <veger> the patch is not yet available in the official repositories, but I build a package containing it
[15:24] <hggdh> veger: you can point to the patch (a link to upstream is good, state you built a package with it (and provide the PPA), and provide a debdiff
[15:25] <hggdh> RedSingularity: you should be able to renew BugSquad on your own
[15:50] <yofel> veger: if you have patches for KDE packages it's better to ask in #kubuntu-devel, much faster feedback
[17:33] <oscalation> got another question if thats ok, im on the request a mentor page, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BugSquad/Mentors
[17:33] <oscalation> it says to set up my ubuntu wiki page, how do i get to this
[18:18] <yofel> oscalation: just go do like https://wiki.ubuntu.com/oscalation - and click on the question if you want to create it
[18:18] <yofel> s/do/to/
[18:19] <yofel> ah, on 'Create net empty page'
[18:30] <oscalation> yofel, any idea which template i should use, if any
[18:30] <oscalation> dont see a .. user template
[18:30] <yofel> not really, I created mine with ideas from multiple other pages
[18:33] <oscalation> care to link me?
[18:33] <oscalation> also, should i use my real name for the page title. or like my irc handle ?
[18:34] <oscalation> maybe i can check out your page for ideas
[18:34] <oscalation> i found it :)
[18:52] <anoteng> I'm having trouble building 2.33, are there any new dependencies not listed on https://trac.transmissionbt.com/wiki/Building ?
[18:52] <anoteng> sorr wrong window..
[23:05] <oscalation> anyone know how i can subscribe to the ubuntu bugs mailing list but filter them out to not show in my normal gmail inbox. I subscribe to another mailing list already and its all i can do to read and delete all those messages.
[23:24] <greg-g> oscalation: it sounds like you should read up how to filter your email: https://mail.google.com/support/bin/answer.py?answer=6579
[23:24] <greg-g> personally, I have a "Lists" folder and a "Bugs" folder where my mailing lists and bug mail go, respectively, so my inbox stays sane
[23:28] <oscalation> greg-g, that worked, thanks so much
[23:31] <greg-g> oscalation: you're welcome. Now, go forth and filter your email to keep your inbox clean. Also, one more tip: you don't have to delete messages in gmail, just archive them out of your inbox.


[02:34] <callmepk> good morning
[02:39] <jamesh> hi callmepk
[02:39] <callmepk> hey jamesh
[03:08] <duflu> Morning callmepk and jamesh
[03:08] <callmepk> morning duflu
[03:08] <jamesh> hi duflu.  Had a good public holiday?
[03:09] <duflu> jamesh, yeah, family mostly. How was yours?
[03:10] <jamesh> good.   Have a few beers with mum? :
[08:32] <jamesh> marcustomlinson: yeah.  It was nice not having to keep that award secret any more :-)
[08:32] <marcustomlinson> how long have you known?
[08:34] <jamesh> About a month.  They'd contacted her before that with an "if you were offered this, would you accept?" type question.
[08:35] <oSoMoN> hi jamesh
[08:35] <jamesh> hi oSoMoN
[08:35] <marcustomlinson> jamesh: must have been hard to believe
[08:36] <marcustomlinson> I'd be waiting for the "just deposit $1000 into the following account to unlock the award"
[08:37] <marcustomlinson> then again, I would expect that being far less cool than your mum is :)
[08:39] <jamesh> marcustomlinson: it was a surprise that she was coming up in the honours list this year, and at that level.  I kind of suspected she'd get an AO or AC at some point though: she's definitely put in the work.
[08:42] <didrocks> hey marcustomlinson, callmepk
[08:43] <oSoMoN> salut didrocks
[09:02] <Laney> peace
[09:04] <duflu> Hi Laney, happy birthday
[09:05] <seb128> hey again desktopers
[09:06] <duflu> Hi seb128
[09:06] <seb128> 262e
[09:06] <seb128> ups
[09:07] <oSoMoN> love
[09:07] <oSoMoN> salut seb128
[09:07] <seb128> Laney, ☮
[09:07] <oSoMoN> peaceful birthday Laney!
[09:12] <callmepk> Hi Laney, happy birthday!
[09:12] <callmepk> also hi seb128
[09:12] <seb128> hey callmepk
[09:13] <Laney> hey duflu seb128 oSoMoN callmepk, cheers!
[09:20] <didrocks> hey Laney happy birthday!
[09:20] <didrocks> wb seb128
[09:23] <marcustomlinson> hey Laney and seb128
[09:25] <Laney> 💋 didrocks and marcustomlinson
[10:22] <Laney> looks like opencc got promoted but it has a dependency on libmarisa0 which is in universe, and now isos fail to build
[10:26] <seb128> Gunnnarrrrr
[10:27] <didrocks> weird, we checked the deps, and it wasn’t showing up in c-m
[10:28] <Laney> <x files theme>
[10:31] <seb128> Laney, should I revert the ibus-libpinyin change meanwhile or are you on it?
[10:32] <didrocks>  Depends: libopencc-data (= 1.1.1+git20200624+ds2-2), libc6 (>= 2.29), libgcc-s1 (>= 3.0), libmarisa0 (>= 0.2.6), libstdc++6 (>= 5.2), indeed, even with 1.1.1+git20200624+ds2-2, I missed it apparently…
[10:32] <Laney> seb128: you can do it, should we just get gunnar to file the MIR or ?
[10:32] <didrocks> (90% of MIRs btw have packages in universe they depend on, for some people MIR are just paperwork without checking what they write :/)
[10:33] <Laney> [ Dependencies ] All dependencies in main (probably, couldn't be bothered to look)
[10:33] <seb128> Laney, yes, he made the mistake so he should fix it :-)
[10:33] <didrocks> yeah, like telling it has symbol tracking when none :/
[10:33] <didrocks> fortunately, marisa has no dep on universe
[10:33] <seb128> people just copy an older MIR as template I guess
[10:34] <seb128> and then fail to properly adapt it :-/
[10:34] <didrocks> yeah, it’s really annoying, last one was on MIR which translated to 18 packages in universe
[10:34] <didrocks> I started to open the new one for the requester, but after a while, it was "please go back to drawing board"
[10:34] <didrocks> the*
[10:41] <Laney> need those 'i am not a robot' tick boxes for bugs :p
[10:43] <didrocks> ahah
[10:56] <sil2100> seb128: hey! Did you have a moment to take a look at the old https://code.launchpad.net/~sil2100/ubuntu-cdimage/canary-image-type/+merge/395387 thingy? No pressure, just asking out of curiosity
[10:57] <sil2100> (since it's mostly to get stuff working nicely for canary builds)
[10:58] <seb128> sil2100, hey, thanks for the reminder! I did glance over it before holidays, but it was the day before I was off and things are a bit crazy since we are back to work so I didn't review it again, I will try to do that this week, sorry for the delay
[11:01] <seb128> didrocks, thx for the review on abseil, I wonder if it wouldn't make sense to drop the mozc Debian patch after all after reading you review. That's what I was mentioning the other day, upstream doesn't want to use it as a system library because it's a moving target
[11:02] <seb128> we usually prefer to use shared librairies than copied versions but perhaps in that case the copy makes sense if the library isn't stable...
[11:21] <didrocks> seb128: yw! Indeed, I’m wondering as well. As we are in sync with debian, in practice, that doesn’t impact us much as the work is done there I think, but if we start diverging, vendoring should be an option IMHO
[11:22] <didrocks> that’s my 2 cents
[11:22] <seb128> didrocks, I will try convince the Debian maintainer that it's not a useful distro patch to carry
[11:23] <didrocks> that’s fine by me
[11:23] <didrocks> keep me posted
[11:23] <seb128> I will do!
[11:28] <Laney> just noticed that power off / restart doesn't work from the menu if you're in ubiquity-dm
[11:28] <Laney> BAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
[11:28] <jibel> Laney, bug 1715602
[11:29] <Laney> yeh
[14:03]  * enyc looks confused  focal-proposed  showing 78.5 thunderbird, not the 78.6.1  being talked about, provided, etc. debian and groovy
[14:03] <seb128> enyc, what's confusing there?
[14:10] <oSoMoN> enyc, I'm working with the SRU team to unblock the 78 series, once that's done we can easily upgrade to 78.6.1
[14:13] <seb128> oSoMoN, 78.7.0 now :-)
[14:13] <oSoMoN> bleh, I can't keep up with updates
[14:13] <luna_> was like earlier today/yesterday
[14:18] <seb128> :-(
[14:41] <ricotz> hello desktopers :)
[14:42] <ricotz> oSoMoN, I was about to mention thunderbird :)
[14:42] <oSoMoN> hey ricotz
[15:04] <seb128> hey ricotz , how are you?
[15:53] <ricotz> seb128, hey, good :), I see libunity built, but I assume there are a Conflict missing against the old gir1.2 package
[16:15] <hellsworth> good morning desktopers
[16:15] <oSoMoN> heya hellsworth
[16:16] <marcustomlinson> hey hellsworth
[16:16] <hellsworth> o// guys :)
[16:23] <luna_> hey
[16:26] <seb128> ricotz, bah, http://launchpadlibrarian.net/519696688/libunity_7.1.4+19.04.20190319-2_7.1.4+19.04.20190319-2build1.diff.gz
[16:26] <seb128> ricotz, +Conflitcs: gir1.2-unity-5.0
[16:26] <seb128> see the typo :(
[16:27] <seb128> ricotz, also for some reason the gir used to get a depends on libunity9 and that stopped happening :-/
[16:29] <ricotz> seb128, oops :(
[16:29] <seb128> ricotz, I will upload a fix once I understand why the library depends isn't added by dh_girespository anymore
[16:34] <seb128> ricotz, looks like the sed lines for adding shared-library to the .gir should be restored to fix the depends...
[18:49] <GunnarHj> sil2100: No issues reported with respect to the language packs in focal-proposed.
[19:07] <seb128> GunnarHj, hey, I don't know if someone pinged you but there was a problem with the opencc MIR, it depends on libmarisa which is in universe, I had to revert your ibus-libpynin upload
[19:20] <seb128> ricotz, I'm fixing the depends issue by adding a --shared-library=libunity.so.9 to the vala options
[19:22] <GunnarHj> seb128: Nope, that was news to me. Apparently something we missed in the MIR bug.
[19:23] <GunnarHj> seb128: How was that not spotted before migration?
[19:28] <seb128> GunnarHj, that's an interesting question, I don't know!
[19:31] <GunnarHj> seb128: So I suppose a marisa MIR is next step. A C++ library without a symbols file... :(
[19:34] <seb128> GunnarHj, indeed...
[19:47] <ricotz> seb128, oh right, that is possible, I hope you don't have to hard code the library name
[21:23] <KGB-2> glib tags 5288ed3 Simon McVittie upstream/2.67.2 * Upstream version 2.67.2 * https://deb.li/mKbM
[21:23] <KGB-2> glib upstream/latest f48db91 Simon McVittie * pushed 217 commits * https://deb.li/3rKPU
[21:24] <KGB-2> glib pristine-tar a760dbc Simon McVittie glib2.0_2.67.2.orig.tar.xz.delta glib2.0_2.67.2.orig.tar.xz.id * pristine-tar data for glib2.0_2.67.2.orig.tar.xz * https://deb.li/ykxn
[23:09] <KGB-2> vte2.91 tags ba8f5bd Simon McVittie upstream/0.62.2 * Upstream version 0.62.2 * https://deb.li/U0R0
[23:10] <KGB-2> vte2.91 upstream/latest 3c87215 Simon McVittie * pushed 11 commits * https://deb.li/tv3M
[23:10] <KGB-2> vte2.91 pristine-tar f482fda Simon McVittie vte2.91_0.62.2.orig.tar.gz.delta vte2.91_0.62.2.orig.tar.gz.id * pristine-tar data for vte2.91_0.62.2.orig.tar.gz * https://deb.li/3EUcj
[23:16] <sil2100> GunnarHj: thanks! I saw an e-mail from the DE team, but I think it's a bit too late - trying to get more info about if it's worse than in .1 or not
[23:18] <GunnarHj> sil2100: I'm about to answer that mail. My idea is to move also the German language packs, and offer to make a delta update later.
[23:19] <GunnarHj> sil2100: I mean, untranslated strings and trivial typos is not a blocker.
[23:53] <sil2100> GunnarHj: thanks!


[08:55] <soren> tjaalton: Ok, I've read up on the subject of the kvm brokenness due to evdev, and it almost makes me cry.
[08:56] <tjaalton> soren: ok, so the guest is broken?
[08:56] <soren> No.
[08:56] <soren> It's... well..
[08:56] <soren> Let me explain the issue:
[08:57] <soren> kvm does full virtualisation, so it emulates a keyboard of some flavour.
[08:57] <soren> This means that it has a virtual keyboard that sends scan codes to the guest os like a regular keyboard would do.
[08:58] <soren> This is key.
[08:58] <soren> it doesn't send "f", if you press the f button. It sends keycode 41.
[08:59] <soren> Let's rewind about a year..
[08:59] <soren> Back then, the way this was accomplished in kvm (and qemu), you had to pass "-k fi" to kvm if you had a Finnish keymapping.
[09:00] <soren> That way, kvm could look at the keysym(!) look it up in the finnish keymap it had, figure out to which keycode that corresponded, and sent that to the guest.
[09:00] <soren> This was annoying for many reasons.
[09:01] <soren> First of all, it was a bit flaky from time to time.
[09:02] <soren> E.g. azerty keyboards need you to hold down shift to type numbers, so kvm couldn't send the shift key to the guest until it knew what you had pressed.
[09:02] <soren> Also, you set this in kvm, so when you're using vnc, you have to be using the same mapping as the one you told kvm you'd be using.
[09:03] <soren> this sucks big time if you want to give different users access to kvm instances and they don't share a keymap.
[09:03] <soren> ...or if you simply don't know ahead of time which keymap the client will be using (in hosted environments for instance).
[09:03] <soren> Fast forward to... hmm.. February this year.
[09:04] <soren> I got fed up with this and started looking for a way to properly fix this.. Anthony Liguori (vnc and kvm hacker (very, very convenient combination)) extended the VNC protocol to be able to send keycodes instead of keysyms.
[09:05] <soren> Er... I should have said scancodes almost every time I said keycodes, I think.
[09:05] <soren> Anyhow..
[09:06] <soren> It turned out that the key code X reported corresponded exactly to the scan code from the keyboard. Great success. So we took those, sent them untranslated over the wire to kvm, and kvm passed them directly, untranslated to the guest.
[09:06] <soren> This was fantastic.
[09:07] <soren> No more passing "-k <lang code>" to kvm to make things work (somewhat). The world was a better place.
[09:07] <soren> Fast forward a few months..
[09:07] <soren> Now, evdev comes along.
[09:07] <soren> evdev is not doing anything wrong per se.. There's nothing in the X protocol that dictates that keycodes should correspond to the hardware scan codes from the keyboard.
[09:08] <soren> and it just so happens, that with evdev, they don't.
[09:08] <tjaalton> Ok, I see your point
[09:08] <soren> ...so we no longer have the raw scan codes.
[09:08] <soren> There are a few different solutions..
[09:09] <soren> We could ditch evdev.
[09:09] <soren> We could tell the evdev developers to "fix" it. (as I said, they're not doing anything wrong per se, but it's annoying to us)
[09:09] <tjaalton> that's possible
[09:10] <tjaalton> since fedora should be seeing the same bug by now
[09:10] <soren> We could come up with a way of a) detecting the use of evdev, and b) if detected, translate evdev keycodes to scancodes again.
[09:10] <soren> According to my sources, Fedora are not switching to evdev.
[09:10] <soren> Because of this very bug.
[09:10] <soren> s/bug/issue/
[09:10] <tjaalton> anyway, maybe it would be best if you could mail<EMAIL_ADDRESS>about this problem
[09:10] <tjaalton> fedora rawhide is already using it
[09:11] <soren> I think someone already did. I'll need to check up on it.
[09:11] <tjaalton> they didn't switch to it for F9
[09:11] <soren> Oh.
[09:11] <soren> Er..
[09:11] <tjaalton> but there were other bugs too
[09:11] <soren> Right, that might be true.
[09:11] <soren> What they're *not* doing is shipping the patch to kvm that enables the raw keycode thing to happen.
[09:12] <tjaalton> ah
[09:12] <tjaalton> so they like old bugs
[09:12] <soren> We're the only ones who ship it, and it really makes a massive difference.
[09:13] <tjaalton> ok..
[09:16] <tjaalton> in that case the third solution sounds cleaner
[09:21] <soren> Detect evdev and try to do the mapping?
[09:22] <tjaalton> right..
[09:24] <tjaalton> we can't avoid evdev forever, so better fix/work around any issues that come up :)
[09:45] <soren> Do you know how to detect evdev?
[09:49] <tjaalton> how low level should it be?
[09:49] <tjaalton> the detection
[09:49] <tjaalton> setxkbmap -print is one way if it's just a script that configures kvm runtime
[09:49] <tjaalton> there should be better ways to get that
[09:50] <soren> ah, yes. I could look at setxkbmap and see what it does.
[20:43] <bdmurray> bryce: since alpha4 is out did you want to do something with the -ati bugs?
[20:45] <bryce> yep
[20:46] <bdmurray> was tormod doing some of it manually though?
[20:48] <tseliot> bdmurray: can you renew my membership in the Ubuntu Bug Control (ubuntu-bugcontrol) Launchpad team, please?
[20:49] <superm1> tseliot, can't you do that yourself?
[20:50] <tseliot> superm1: if I could I would do it myself ;)
[20:50] <tseliot> "To prevent this membership from expiring, you should get in touch with one of the team's administrators:  etc."
[20:50] <superm1> oh
[20:50] <bdmurray> tseliot: what is your launchpad username?
[20:50] <tseliot> bdmurray: albertomilone
[20:51] <bdmurray> tseliot: Oh sure, done!
[20:51] <tseliot> bdmurray: thanks a lot :-)
[20:53] <bdmurray> no problem
[20:57] <tjaalton> bryce: btw, got input-device properties working with evdev today. peter said he'd apply the backported patches to xserver 1.5 etc
[21:06] <bryce> tjaalton: excellent
[21:07] <bryce> bdmurray: he might have, but it doesn't hurt to repeat.
[21:07] <bdmurray> heh
[22:18] <bdmurray> bryce: How does http://pastebin.osuosl.org/21740 look for a comment?
[22:20] <LaserJock> anybody here know how to set up a touchpad in Intrepid?
[22:20] <bryce> bdmurray: sounds good
[22:20] <LaserJock> there used to be a tab in the Mouse settings but I don't see it anymore
[22:21] <bryce> LaserJock: I've not tested any touchpads, but I saw three user contributed docs which I've linked to from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/X/Config
[22:22] <LaserJock> bryce: you don't have any laptops? :-)
[22:23] <bryce> er, /not tested any touchpads that required manual configuration/
[22:26] <LaserJock> ah
[22:26] <LaserJock> well, mine works, just too well ;-)
[22:26] <LaserJock> I gotta turn of the tap-to-click or I start typing everywhere
[22:26] <LaserJock> *off
[22:53] <bdmurray> bryce: hmm, I just realized I should subscribe to all of these
[23:01] <pwnguin> anyone wanna take a look at https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/234466 ?
[23:02] <pwnguin> there's a debdiff
[23:03] <pwnguin> or not
[23:03]  * pwnguin reads harder
[23:04] <tjaalton> I can update wacom tomorrow
[23:05] <pwnguin> cool
[23:05] <pwnguin> i just got a new job yesterday
[23:05] <tjaalton> besides, I'll try to make it support input-properties..
[23:05] <tjaalton> pwnguin: congrats!
[23:05] <pwnguin> its a nice, easy part time job
[23:05] <tjaalton> serving fast-food?-
[23:05] <tjaalton> :)
[23:06] <bdmurray> I'm not sure that qualifies as easy
[23:06] <tjaalton> hehe
[23:06] <pwnguin> lab assistant for a graphic design program
[23:06] <pwnguin> its all osx, which is good... and bad
[23:10] <tjaalton> (there's an old joke in finland; what an arts grad asked the tech student at McDonald's? "want fries with that?")
[23:10] <tjaalton> pwnguin: sounds good
[23:36] <pwnguin> well, there's actually a lot of help wanted posters
[23:36] <pwnguin> presumably because they're a community college rather than a university, and are cheaper
[23:40] <bryce> congrats pwnguin
[23:40] <bryce> pwnguin: make sure to pimp inkscape ;-)
[23:40] <pwnguin> heh
[23:40] <pwnguin> illustrator isn't very popular


[06:15] <fabbione> morning
[11:24] <fabbione> doko: ping?
[11:30] <doko> fabbione: pong
[11:33] <fabbione> doko: how do i use gcc-snapshot?
[11:33] <fabbione> should i just prefix my path with /usr/lib/gcc-snapshot/bin ?
[11:36] <doko> yes, that should do it. And the kernel build doesn't need any shared libs, so you don't need to set LD_LIBRARY_PATH
[11:36] <fabbione> ok
[11:37] <fabbione> i am trying to reproduce the ice on ppc
[11:48] <fabbione> doko: good news or bad news?
[11:48] <fabbione> which one do you want first?
[11:48] <doko> you can reproduce it, but you get a preprocessed source file?
[11:50] <fabbione> doko: no.. after unionfs upgrade from this morning i cannot reproduce it anymore...
[11:50] <fabbione> atleast on breezy-64 chroot
[11:50] <fabbione> i am testing in the normal one
[11:53] <doko> hmm, nice, or not nice? ;)
[12:01] <fabbione> well it's nice because we can ship the driver
[12:01] <fabbione> it's not nice because we don't know if it is a code change that fixed it or something in recent gcc
[12:01] <doko> you did test with 3.4 or 4.0?
[12:01] <fabbione> 3.4
[12:01] <fabbione> but i did do a normal test without using gcc-snapshot
[12:01] <fabbione> so i guess it's the code in unionfs to be changed and doesn't trigger the ice anymore
[08:54] <jbailey> doko: Around>
[09:03] <doko> jb-support: yes :-)
[09:06] <jbailey> *lol*
[09:06] <jbailey> Bah, you just want me to be nice to you ;)
[09:06] <jbailey> I think I figured out how to morgue worked enough to find an old copy of gcc-3.4 anyway.
[09:07] <jbailey> Yup, Just made a 64 bit binary that works, woohoo
[09:09] <jbailey> Should I call the package libc6-amd64 ?
[09:09] <jbailey> And the matching libc6-dev-amd64
[09:12] <doko> yes, sounds ok. although I hate the naming ... but it's consistent with the other ones
[09:12] <doko> btw, the debian gcc-3.4 versions are still biarch, so these should work as well
[09:12] <jbailey> Cool.
[09:13] <doko> jbailey: will you sort it out tonight with infinity or lamont?
[09:13] <jbailey> doko: I'm going to try to put together a glibc and gcc-3.4 package now that they can use.
[09:17] <doko> ok, I uploaded a new 3.4 today, which FTBFS on i386. I'll send you a patch later today
[09:29] <jbailey> Cool, thanks.
[09:29] <jbailey> I'll also post the biarch glibc on people as soon as I have it.
[09:31] <doko> ok, then maybe we can merge the changes into one gcc-3.4 upload, which laminity can use
[09:31] <jbailey> *G*!
[09:36] <doko> hmm, when do you plan the glibc uploads/builds? still Monday?
[09:43] <jbailey> doko: Subject to the availability of Lamont or Adam, that sounds right.
[09:43] <jbailey> Unless one of them was bored this weekend.
[09:44] <jbailey> doko: What I'd like to do is hand them .deb's and sources and say "Install these debs.  Rebuild them with their matching sources.  Stuff the new binaries into the archive"
[09:44] <jbailey> That way it can be done at their convenience.
[09:44] <jbailey> lamont: Assuming I've got the steps right, yes?
[09:47] <doko> jabiley: yes, that sounds fine. do you prepare both biarch builds (i386 and amd64)?
[09:56] <lamont> jbailey: works for me.
[09:56] <lamont> I'm off to a birthday party at Renn Faire all day tomorrow, but we should be able to schedule something in...
[09:57] <lamont> is this just i386 we're doing funky bootstrapping stuff on, or is it more than just the one?
[09:57] <lamont> back in a fdew
[10:03] <jbailey> lamont: Just i386 for this round.
[10:03] <jbailey> The i386-libs has a whole pile of crack in it that I'm not sure what the right answer to it is.
[10:03] <jbailey> Or even how much people on amd64 actually care about producing i386 binaries yet.
[10:08] <doko> jbailey: grub needs it
[10:09] <lamont> jbailey: yeah, what doko said.  grub is a 32-bit executable on amd64
[10:10] <jbailey> Ah, interesting.
[10:13] <jbailey> Ouch:
[10:13] <jbailey> checking build system type... i486-pc-linux-gnu
[10:13] <jbailey> checking host system type... powerpc64-unknown-linux-gnu
[10:17] <lamont> dude - that's serious multiarch
[10:17] <fabbione> ahaha
[10:19] <lamont> ccache sucks
[10:19] <lamont> cache hit                            296
[10:19] <lamont> cache miss                         12401
[10:19] <lamont> that or kernel option hacking sucks
[10:19] <fabbione> the latter
[10:19] <lamont> the latter makes the former suck
[10:22] <fabbione> i agree
[10:22] <fabbione> that's why i tend to build with -j200
[10:22] <fabbione> it scrolls faster and it looks that is compiling much more
[10:31] <fabbione> jbailey: to your knowledge.. how difficult it is to setup a cross compiler?
[10:32] <doko> fabbione: get Dan Kegel's crosstools
[10:33] <jbailey> fabbione: I don't have any troubles, but Dan's crosstools are supposed to be quite nice.
[10:33] <fabbione> doko: is it packaged?
[10:33] <doko> no, and the current cross build support in binutils/gcc-4.0 is a bit broken
[10:35] <jbailey> doko: Do you think Lamont would kill us if we built cross compilers for every arch on every arch?
[10:36] <doko> jbailey: so the build deps are: amd64-libs-dev [i386] , i386-build-deps [amd64]  ?
[10:36] <doko> jbailey: he doesn't have that many machines ...
[10:36] <fabbione> actually i am only curious to try to build sparc and m68k on i386
[10:38] <fabbione> but given that's broken i don't think i am going to spend time on it this night
[10:39] <doko> you start feeling bored during your vacations from the first day? :-P
[10:39] <jbailey> it's not even his first day yet.
[10:39] <jbailey> Like a Heroin addict... =)
[10:39] <fabbione> ahaha
[10:39] <jbailey> MUST HACK
[10:39] <fabbione> unfortunatly my evening has been ruined
[10:40] <fabbione> so better to hack than do nothing
[10:40] <jbailey>  /msg fabbione I told you bringing out the goat would be a mistake.
[10:40] <fabbione> ahahhaaha