[00:59] <dobey> wgrant: isn't quantal EOL now too? or is that being done this week sometime?
[01:38] <wgrant> dobey: Any time from around now, yeah. But probably not for another month or so.
[01:49] <dobey> wgrant: well, the wiki says "April 2014" as EOL date, but i don't know how long it takes IS to move the arhcive to old-releases and do all the little bits of work for that
[01:54] <wgrant> dobey: It will EOL at some point after 2014/04/18, not necessarily on that date. And there's more than just IS things to consider.
[01:59] <dobey> wgrant: yes, but if the files are moved to old-releases, then the builds on lp will just start failing if they are still allowed, right?
[02:00] <dobey> i know there are lots of things to consider, i'm just trying to think of what bits affect building for quantal in a ppa, directly
[02:00] <wgrant> The move to old-releases happens well after Launchpad starts refusing to build.
[02:00] <dobey> ok
[02:00] <wgrant> (and old-releases doesn't affect the internal copy of the archive that Launchpad uses; that's separate again)
[02:01] <dobey> right, though i'd expect the internal archive to be cleaned as well at that point
[02:05] <stgraber> dobey: ftpmaster has all releases after dapper and AFAIK is the actual source server behind old-releaess.ubuntu.com (which is probably then tweaked a bit for pre-LP release so it also includes warty, hoary and breezy)
[02:05] <wgrant> Not quite
[02:06] <wgrant> We usually remove pool files from ftpmaster a few months after EOL.
[02:06] <wgrant> but dists is there all the way back to dapper, for no particularly good reason other than that we haven't bothered to clean it up.
[02:08] <stgraber> that could give some potentially very interesting behavior if we ever do things out of order ;) (package installs working so long as they haven't change between two series)
[02:08] <wgrant> Correct.
[02:08] <wgrant> Fortunately we've done this before :)
[02:08] <stgraber> :)
[02:46] <YokoZar> wgrant: Still, I find it a bit strange that we didn't keep Raring around as a target to, say, smooth upgrades from a still-supported Quantal.  I suppose it's a moot point now.
[02:52] <wgrant> YokoZar: That would have meant deferring the support reduction for another three releases.
[02:53] <YokoZar> wgrant: I meant just the launchpady bits of the support reduction.  We don't have to actively provide updates even though it's still possible to do a PPA build, for instance.
[03:56] <wgrant> YokoZar: Well, if I let people do PPA builds for obsolete releases then they *will* do that, and I will run out of buildd capacity.
[03:56] <wgrant> People have bad habits of building for everything, even if they have no users there.
[03:57] <wgrant> Plus it's totally reckless to still run an obsolete release, so there's no reason anyone could have to want a PPA build for raring today.
[03:57] <wgrant> Your machine was probably already pwned by Heartbleed.
[12:45] <serg> hi here
[12:46] <serg> somehow one of our branches (lp:maria/10.0) cannot be pushed into, bzr times our with "ConnectionReset reading response for 'Branch.set_last_revision_info', retrying"
[12:46] <serg> anything we can do short of recreating the branch?
[15:41] <phunyguy> hello, after breezing through some of the how-to pages for creating a PPA, I am still a little foggy as to how all of this works... Is it possible to import the current sources for the packages I want to include, to stay within the versions that are in their respective releases, but change some build options to suit my needs?
[15:42] <phunyguy> like I don't want to lose security updates... I just want the packages built differently.
[15:52] <dobey> it's sort of possible, yes
[16:19] <phunyguy> dobey: I would love some assistance if you have time....
[16:21] <phunyguy> "If you're creating an alternative version of a package that's already in Ubuntu's primary archive, you don't need to upload the .orig.tar.gz file, i.e. the original source."
[16:21] <dobey> i don't really. sorry. basically, you pull the source, make your changes, add a new version entry to the changelog, appending ".1~$yourppaname1~$ubuntuseries1" to the current version, build a new source package, test that it builds/works locally, then upload that source package to your ppa
[16:21] <phunyguy> so that's a start.
[19:17] <bobbyz> Hi all, is launchpad down?  I can't seem to reach it, but not sure if that's a network routing issue with my ISP or if LP itself is dead
[19:18] <czajkowski> bobbyz: it's up
[19:19] <bobbyz> czajkowski: ok thanks.  I'll have to debug a bit on my end then
[20:20] <adam_g> bobbyz, im hitting similar issues today trying to connect to launchpad and archive.canonical.com.
[20:59] <silverlion> good evening
[21:02] <silverlion> i'd like to request help to retrieve https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-comms/ back (I owned it but lost it due to hardware crash...)
[21:20] <silverlion> good evening pinky__
[21:42] <wgrant> silverlion: There was no hardware crash there. It looks like you requested that Launchpad remove your account.
[21:45] <silverlion> wgrant, yep. i asked launchpad to remove it because i could not log in back due to email change
[21:45] <silverlion> and the email my former launchpad account was connected to is one that i dont use anymore
[21:45] <silverlion> so i was not able to reset the pw
[21:46] <silverlion> wgrant, hardware crash on my end => pw for launchpad lost => reset impossible => new set up with proper accounts and keys
[21:48] <wgrant> Hm, how did you ask Launchpad to remove it if you weren't able to log in?
[21:52] <silverlion> wgrant, i closed down my account for ubuntu one, for which i was able to retrieve the pw.
[21:52] <silverlion> what I did not know was that launchpad and Ubuntu One Service was tied together
[21:52] <silverlion> so one thing let to another
[21:53] <wgrant> OK
[21:54] <wgrant> The team has other admins, so I won't give it directly to you. You can ask one of them to give it back to you, since they can do a better job of verifying that you're actually who you say you are.
[21:54] <silverlion> wgrant, that's absolutely ok for me
[21:56] <wgrant> silverlion: Done. https://launchpad.net/~sergiomeneses now owns the team, and he can give it to you at https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-comms/+reassign
[21:56] <silverlion> wgrant, thank you for your time.
[21:56] <SergioMeneses> wgrant, thanks!
[21:56] <wgrant> np, let me know if you have any other issues.
[21:56] <silverlion> this time i will be more careful
[21:58] <silverlion> good night


[00:37] <crimsun> thanks for all the hard work getting libjack0 rdepends done, folks!
[05:59] <ScottL> not trying to be picky but it would appear that hydrogen-0.9.4 didn't make it into lucid according to bug #495507
[05:59] <ScottL> i realise there was a lot going on just before the FF and of course I could have contact debian multimedia sooner
[06:00] <ScottL> but anyway, i'll be moving on to some testing in the next couple of days (and hopefully some community documentation again as well)
[06:00] <ScottL> cheers everyone
[20:42] <ScottL> can someone explain the difference between ISO's from http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntustudio/daily/   and one's found at  http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/build/ubuntustudio/all?
[20:42] <ScottL> when would you choose to download one in preference to the other?
[20:45] <crimsun> huh?
[20:45] <crimsun> the latter URL gives me "We are not testing at the moment"
[20:45] <crimsun> am I missing something?
[20:49] <ScottL> i did not understand that either and was hoping it was a lack on my knowledge and would become clear when someone explained more
[20:50] <crimsun> well, I don't see any list of isos at the latter, so I can't tell you anything
[20:50] <crimsun> normally there's a link from the latter to something resembling the former
[20:50] <crimsun> it's usually dated, however
[20:51] <ScottL> would it be fair to say that th former is "cutting edge" with daily builds and the latter is more formalized for testing and documentation purposes?
[20:52] <crimsun> I don't think so
[20:53] <crimsun> again, normally the latter links to a specific dated iso hosted on the former
[20:53] <ScottL> i'm hoping to aggregate the information i gain and make a ubuntu studio community testing documentation page to help the community at large and the launchpad testing team specifically
[20:54] <ScottL> well, to be honest, stochastic has already started something and I wanted to flesh it out more


[00:51] <snap-l> evening
[01:03] <rick_h_droid> howdy
[01:06] <snap-l> Have I mentioned how much I hate Windows
[01:07] <Blazeix> no, do tell
[14:33] <snap-l> Baen books has spoiled me
[14:34] <snap-l> they had this CD promotion where you could get a bunch of eBooks with some of their hardcover books
[14:34] <snap-l> http://baencd.thefifthimperium.com/
[14:34] <snap-l> What's awesome is some of the ebooks they have they no longer sell on their site
[14:35] <snap-l> I've been perusing the B&N in Rochester and picking up paperbacks of the more interesting Baen books
[14:35] <snap-l> and it's like getting the eBook version for free
[14:35] <snap-l> Which makes me happy
[14:35] <snap-l> and keeps me wanting to get their books.
[14:35] <snap-l> etc.
[17:29] <brousch> rick_h_: I didn't notice that the Django schema migration kickstarter is by the South author
[17:31] <brousch> Heh, it's already almost double his highest stretch goal
[17:31] <brousch> http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/andrewgodwin/schema-migrations-for-django
[17:45] <snap-l> Nice
[17:50] <snap-l> OK, now can we have federated applications. APparently Ubuntu Touch isn't getting a Twitter app
[17:59] <snap-l> Watching students at SCience Olympiad makes me very glad I'm no longer in high school
[17:59] <snap-l> though I'm currently standing at a counter, and thinking I might want to try a standing desk. :)
[17:59] <snap-l> THis is quite nice.
[18:37] <brousch> Didn't twitter tell all applications to fuck off?
[18:49] <snap-l> Pretty much
[18:50] <snap-l> BUt unless Twitter decides to port to the Ubuntu Touch, there will be no twitter app for it
[18:50] <snap-l> Honestly, it's pretty short sghted.
[21:42] <rick_h_> brousch: yea, south needs some love.
[22:19] <oiaylem> hey there
[22:39] <greg-g> hi there
[22:40] <oiaylem> how are you greg
[22:45] <greg-g> I'm alright, doing the saturday chores thing
[22:45] <greg-g> so, going afk for a while, you're welcome to hang around, people come and go on a saturday
[22:51] <oiaylem> thanks
[22:51] <oiaylem> have a good run


[01:34] <JanC> seems like upgrades to 16.04 don't install the breeze theme for LibreOffice?
[05:03] <hikiko> Hi
[05:44] <pitti> Good morning
[06:40]  * ricotz welcomes yakkety
[06:41] <pitti> my dictionary fails on that -- I suppose that's just some made-up and phonetically nice word, yes?
[06:41] <pitti> a yak alliteration
[06:41] <ricotz> haven't investigated it yet ;)
[06:41] <flocculant> pitti: "just catching up on everything...nothing important "
[06:42] <pitti> flocculant: that's what "yakkety" means?
[06:42] <flocculant> and some really old song that infinity remembers :p
[06:42] <flocculant> yup
[06:42]  * pitti still votes for rolling in between LTSes :)
[06:42] <ricotz> ah, so still a placeholder?
[06:43] <flocculant> I said it to tsimon in xubuntu-offtopic when I failed to come up with a yy name for me to use :)
[06:43] <pitti> no, that adjective is settled -- https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/yakkety
[06:43] <flocculant> ricotz: yea :)
[06:43] <ricotz> pitti, I see
[06:43] <flocculant> pitti: LOL
[06:44] <ricotz> "Yakkety yakkety yakkety yakkety yakkety yakkety yakkety yakkety yak. Naturally 🙂"
[06:44] <ricotz> by quoting http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/1496
[06:44]  * flocculant is prescient ... "<flocculant> it's still on the w spec for someone to copy to the yakkity yak one" from weeks ago :p
[06:45] <pitti> we all pretty much agreed on the yak :)
[06:45] <pitti> but I suppose there's no adjective sufficiently close to shaving that starts with y :)
[06:46] <ricotz> heh
[07:49]  * Sweet5hark takes out the papers and the trash!
[07:56] <seb128> good morning desktopers
[07:56] <seb128> hey Sweet5hark
[07:56] <pitti> bonjour seb128 ! wie gehts/
[07:56] <seb128> salut pitti! sehr gut, danke! und dir?
[07:57] <pitti> seb128: prima, danke!
[07:57]  * pitti feels very yakkety
[07:57] <seb128> was a name announced?
[07:57] <pitti> seb128: yes, although a lot less funny post than usual: http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/1496
[07:58] <seb128> lol
[07:58] <seb128> no fun, infity/the guys at the office had it right :p
[07:58] <seb128> it's not usual that Mark picks something suggested by others!
[07:58] <Sweet5hark> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E6-2eXjx-h0 looping here
[07:59] <pitti> seb128: I guess the yak was pretty much without alternative anyway
[07:59] <seb128> yeah, but "yakkety" could have been changed ;-)
[07:59]  * seb128 is facing the dilemna about what to do with his laptop
[07:59] <seb128> I guess I'm going to stick to the LTS until .1
[08:00] <seb128> or at least a bit to get some SRUs going
[08:00] <pitti> VMs FTW!
[08:02] <willcooke> morning seb128 pitti
[08:02] <pitti> hey willcooke
[08:02] <larsu> morning! Congrats on the release!
[08:02] <pitti> hey larsu, thanks!
[08:02] <seb128> hey willcooke, had a good trip back yesterday?
[08:02] <seb128> hey larsu, thanks!
[08:03] <larsu> also, yakkety yak is a *perfect* ubuntu name
[08:03] <seb128> pitti, right, but you don't end up using VMs much, you just spawn them for quick testing
[08:03] <seb128> ;-)
[08:03] <willcooke> seb128, met an old school friend after the office, so didnt get home till late
[08:03] <seb128> pitti, I can as well build/test apps on xenial and downgrade back then
[08:03] <pitti> seb128: yeah, but that seems alright for you for doing yakkety stuff until .1?
[08:03] <Sweet5hark> FWIW, me does all testing on VMs (and building on pbuilders) ... -- currently having 11 VMs (sized for LibreOffice) which brings the 512GB SDD to its limits sometimes ...
[08:03] <seb128> willcooke, oh ok, nice, at least you celebrated xenial :-)
[08:04] <willcooke> seb128, :)
[08:04] <larsu> Sweet5hark: I hope some of those are nested... :P
[08:04] <larsu> that's where the fun comes in
[08:04] <seb128> pitti, I usually don't even bother doing VM, I do my merges on n-1 and test there and then downgrade, at least for GNOME apps and such, like if it's the same upstream version and just merges not a lot can go wrong
[08:05] <pitti> n-1?
[08:05]  * flexiondotorg fears the Yak shaving jokes.
[08:05] <willcooke> morning Sweet5hark larsu
[08:05] <willcooke> flexiondotorg, :)  I can't work out if that's real or epic troll
[08:05] <flexiondotorg> willcooke, I hope a troll.
[08:05] <flexiondotorg> Youthful Yucatan anyone?
[08:06] <flexiondotorg> Has the advantage it's a squirrel, so no artwork changes.
[08:06] <willcooke> :D
[08:06] <flexiondotorg> And no last minute scramble with the design team ;-)
[08:07] <seb128> pitti, yak-1 = xenial :p
[08:07] <Sweet5hark> larsu: precise64, trusty64, vivid64, wily64, xenial64, ooo33, aoo411, debian, snappy, vagrant_default..., allsnaps. I guess some could be cleaned up by now ...
[08:08]  * larsu is impressed
[08:08] <flexiondotorg> willcooke, not a troll. Syncs have started to yakkety.
[08:09]  * Sweet5hark needs to add yakety yak to technical.dic. Totally a technical term right now.
[08:10] <ara> willcooke, seb128: hello!
[08:10] <ara> willcooke, seb128: did we remove browsing files using BT in xenial on purpose?
[08:10] <seb128> hey ara
[08:11] <seb128> ara, removed from where compared to what?
[08:12] <ara> seb128, if you open set up a mobile device over BT, you no longer have the option to browse the files in the phone
[08:12] <ara> seb128, you are able to send or receive files, but not browse the contents
[08:13] <seb128> ara, was that working and in what ubuntu version? 14.04? 15.10?
[08:14] <seb128> ara, and what were you using to browse them, nautilus?
[08:14] <seb128> ara, please provide some details
[08:14] <ara> seb128, 14.04 for sure, no sure about wily sorry
[08:14] <ara> seb128, using the indicator
[08:14] <seb128> the indicator is only a menu
[08:14] <seb128> it never provided some "browsing UI"
[08:15] <seb128> so I guess it was calling from some external program
[08:19] <ara> hey chih
[08:19] <seb128> hey chih
[08:19] <ara> seb128, chih is the one reporting this issue, he will be able to give you more details
[08:19] <chih> hello seb128
[08:19] <seb128> ara, thanks
[08:19] <seb128> chih, what did you use to browse those shares with? nautilus
[08:19] <seb128> is that using obex?
[08:20] <chih> seb128, using obex is fine. it is through gui tool that has issues
[08:20] <seb128> what gui?
[08:20] <chih> seb128, bluetooth-setting?
[08:21] <seb128> bluetooth-setting is not a thing
[08:21] <seb128> we don't have such codebase/app/project
[08:21] <seb128> nor ever did
[08:21] <chih> seb128, right. need to be more precise. hold on.
[08:21] <seb128> can you just describe/screenshot/screencast what you did on 14.04?
[08:23] <seb128> did you use to browse your phone with nautilus over obex?
[08:23] <seb128> is that what this is about?
[08:23] <chih> seb128, unity-control-center bluetooth
[08:23] <seb128> that's the config panel
[08:23] <seb128> it allows to pair device
[08:23] <seb128> it never had a file browser included
[08:24] <chih> seb128, we used another pc to file browsing
[08:24] <seb128> ok, that's getting nowhere
[08:25] <seb128> please provide a screencast of what you are doing on the old Ubuntu
[08:25] <seb128> or tell me what application is used for browsing
[08:25] <chih> seb128, sure. we should have prepared for this
[08:25] <seb128> or is the app that secret that nobody wants to share its name? ;-)
[08:25] <chih> seb128, let us find it out for you.
[08:25] <seb128> thanks
[08:25] <chih> seb128, sure
[08:26] <seb128> chih, ara, I expect you are using nautilus and being bitten by http://www.hadess.net/2011/11/obexftp-in-gnome-non-update.html / https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=745621
[08:26] <ubot5`> Gnome bug 745621 in [obsolete] obexftp backend "remove obsolete obexftp code" [Normal,Resolved: fixed]
[08:27] <chih> seb128, need to go attend a call now. i am having another team member check with you on this issue.
[08:28] <seb128> k
[08:30] <kristinchuang> seb128: ping
[08:30] <seb128> lol
[08:30] <seb128> hey kristinchuang ;-)
[08:31] <kristinchuang> seb128: hello :)
[08:31] <kristinchuang> seb128: I'm here to provide some info on debugging the BT browsing function :)
[08:32] <seb128> kristinchuang, can you screenshot/screencast what you used to do which worked? or give me the name of the application doing the browsing (is that nautilus?)
[08:34] <kristinchuang> seb128: do you mean the application that's supposed to be doing the actual browsing (i.e. showing all the files to be browsed)? Yes that's nautilus
[08:34] <seb128> k
[08:34] <seb128> thanks, that's all I wanted
[08:34] <kristinchuang> seb128: but I haven't been able to reach the step where nautilus is launched though
[08:34] <seb128> kristinchuang, so I think your issue is https://git.gnome.org/browse/gvfs/commit/?id=606ef241fb8677528bd5d5526854658f0f298a2c
[08:34] <seb128> see http://www.hadess.net/2011/11/obexftp-in-gnome-non-update.html
[08:35] <seb128> and https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=757901
[08:35] <ubot5`> Gnome bug 757901 in [obsolete] obexftp backend "Resurrect obexftp backend" [Normal,New]
[08:35] <seb128> basically that feature was buggy and non maintained and didn't work with bluez5
[08:35] <seb128> so they removed it
[08:44] <kristinchuang> seb128: I see......thanks! Let me go get engineers involved first and get back to you later :D
[08:44] <seb128> kristinchuang, yw!
[08:44] <seb128> kristinchuang, sorry but it's not going to be an easy fix
[08:50] <kristinchuang> seb128: :D oops so this means that there's no confirmed schedule for the resurrection yet right?
[08:51] <seb128> kristinchuang, correct, nobody seems to work on it
[08:51] <seb128> there is a patch on the bug I pointed out
[08:51] <seb128> but it got one review and has been sitting there since
[08:53] <kristinchuang> seb128: ok got it. Thanks for the info!
[08:53] <seb128> yw!
[08:55] <Laney> meow
[08:55]  * Laney is running yakkety
[08:55] <Laney> it's reaalllly stable
[08:55] <willcooke> :D
[08:57] <pitti> hey Laney
[08:57] <Laney> hey pitti!
[08:57] <pitti> Laney: ooh, any kool new features yet? :-)
[08:58] <Laney> shiny png transition to get your teeth into :P
[08:59] <pitti> Laney: oh, that actually has new packages already?
[08:59]  * pitti had assumed it would need a new toolchain first
[08:59] <Laney> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/yakkety/+queue?queue_state=1&queue_text=
[08:59] <Laney> soon
[09:00] <pitti> then I guess I'll do my traditional debhelper merge today :)
[09:01] <Laney> yeah, you can put stuff in the queue
[09:01] <pitti> Laney: but still working on charming up lxd workers, so that we can move armhf to scalingstack
[09:01] <Laney> w00t
[09:01] <pitti> finally, some actual development after this crazy week :)
[09:01] <pitti> Laney: put more eggs into that brittle basket :-P
[09:02] <seb128> hey Laney
[09:02] <seb128> Laney is the opposite of me :p
[09:03]  * seb128 sticks to the LTS and intend to SRU strongly in the next weeks
[09:03] <seb128> no yak to shave here!
[09:04] <seb128> willcooke, btw any though as what as a team we should focus on in the next weeks? unsure if we should have a team focus or just let people go crazy on what they prefer doing ;-)
[09:04] <seb128> Laney, where did you guys go to eat btw?
[09:06] <Laney> seb128: the diner place
[09:06] <willcooke> seb128, not sure I follow you.  Sprint next week where I we can discuss goals etc - or do you mean something else?
[09:06] <Laney> pitti: charming> where's juju involved in that part?
[09:07] <Laney> using juju to manage lxd?
[09:07] <pitti> Laney: we need autopkgtest-cloud-worker to be able to start workers with an lxd configuration
[09:07] <seb128> Laney, the one place where you can get dinner in London? ;-)
[09:07]  * seb128 hides
[09:07] <Laney> one n!
[09:07] <pitti> Laney: hand it a list of "architecture IP #workers"
[09:07] <Laney> the place up the road
[09:07] <Laney> where we got a free meal
[09:08] <seb128> oh, I see!
[09:08] <seb128> fancy
[09:08] <seb128> :-)
[09:08] <Laney> I had an "american breakfast"
[09:08] <Laney> was good
[09:08] <seb128> was the free meal coupon still valid?
[09:08] <pitti> Laney: and it sets up the correspondig remotes, uses a different worker.conf, and call lxd on these remotes instead of ssh/nova
[09:08] <seb128> oh
[09:08] <seb128> that one
[09:08] <seb128> gotcha
[09:08] <pitti> Laney: I also want to create a separate machine/service for the lxd controllers; the nova autopkgtest-worker service/machine is loaded enough already
[09:08] <pitti> (controller, just one for now)
[09:09] <seb128> willcooke, no, I was just wondering how we put the balance between LTS work/stabilization/SRU and new yakky crazyness, but I guess that's a good topic for next week
[09:09] <pitti> Laney, seb128: you guys are back home now?
[09:09] <seb128> pitti, I am
[09:09] <Laney> pitti: ah right, I just thought you would teach the existing one how to do lxd too
[09:09] <seb128> was only in London for one day
[09:09] <Laney> pitti: nope, but I'm going to head back in the day today
[09:09] <pitti> Laney: yeah, it's the same charm, but it needed some extension for all this
[09:09] <pitti> Laney: just boring plumbing for the most part, but it needed to be done :)
[09:11]  * pitti still needs some time to train his fingers to write juju-1 instead of juju, argh
[09:11] <Laney> hehe
[09:11] <Laney> alias juju=juju-1 :P
[09:11] <willcooke> seb128, gotya.  There are a couple of clear issues in X that need sorting around g-s and the missing menus issue which we should get on, but I think we can afford a day of playing :)
[09:12] <seb128> yeah
[09:12] <seb128> well, playing is fine
[09:12] <seb128> I guess people who update still have the LTS in a vm and can work on SRUs there
[09:12] <Laney> that stuff is going to be fixable in both
[09:14] <seb128> yeah, it's just that we have a big stack of things worth SRUing and probably more are going to be reported
[09:14] <willcooke> I think over the next, say, 6 weeks, we'll spot the really common issues
[09:14] <seb128> maybe se should a sub/virtualteam focussed on .1
[09:15] <seb128> we did that after some previous LTSes (precise(iirc?) had a formal virtual team with explicit goal to work on .1)
[09:15] <seb128> +get
[09:15] <willcooke> and get people from kernel, etc etc as part of that team?
[09:15] <seb128> yes, we have 1/2 person of each team, kernel/foundation/desktop/qa
[09:16] <seb128> had*
[09:17] <willcooke> davmor2, jibel - how would you guys be fixed for some additional 16.04 QA over the next couple of months?
[09:17] <willcooke> and then maybe CC cyphermox and/or xnox? ^
[09:17] <willcooke> or pitti?
[09:17]  * willcooke volunteers all the people
[09:18] <seb128> :-)
[09:18] <willcooke> I'll speak to Steve of course
[09:18] <seb128> yeah, let's see, I don't know if that's compatible with the objective/focus for next cycle
[09:18] <seb128> e.g if we can manage to officially redirect that bunch of people to the .1
[09:18] <seb128> but it would be nice if we could :-)
[09:18] <willcooke> worth exploring for sure
[09:19] <willcooke> I think NM will need some love
[09:19] <seb128> for sure
[09:19] <willcooke> xorg / fglrx
[09:19] <willcooke> ubiquity
[09:19] <willcooke> snapd
[09:19] <willcooke> ;)
[09:19] <seb128> :-)
[09:20] <willcooke> maybe bluez?  Seems ok so far, but OEM might want some work of theirs SRUing?
[09:23] <seb128> yeah, let's see what's the feedback/reports in the next weeks or so
[09:24] <willcooke> sounds like a good plan
[09:31] <davmor2> willcooke: No but what I would suggest is we start 16.04.1 testing earlier maybe instead
[09:37] <willcooke> :)
[10:09] <davmor2> willcooke: so I think that cyphermox and co are well aware of the issues as they currently stand, But I would suggest that a month before 16.04.1 we start looking at it weekly till the end and ensure the issue that currently stand are resolved and that no new ones have arrived but maybe discuss a time frame around that when he is online, Also I would assume by then the majority of the user issue would be
[10:09] <davmor2> resolved by your team for any major niggles in the system itself that none of us have happen to trip over
[10:11] <davmor2> willcooke: also jibel is off today and might have a differing opinion so maybe re-discuss on Monday
[10:11] <willcooke> thanks davmor2
[10:46]  * willcooke begins backing up
[11:05] <andyrock> good morning all
[11:05] <willcooke> hey andyrock
[11:30] <seb128> hey andyrock, how are you?
[13:01] <andyrock> seb128: lunch time with Trevinho
[13:01] <andyrock> XD
[13:01] <seb128> andyrock, Trevinho, are you guys taking the day to enjoy Prague?
[13:01] <seb128> have fun there!
[13:01] <andyrock> Just a little bit
[13:02] <andyrock> :)
[13:02] <andyrock> I worked this morning during the travel Marco swapped the day
[13:03] <seb128> k
[13:03] <seb128> say hey to Trevinho ;-)
[13:06] <seb128> willcooke, Laney, attente, reading the g+ post from hughsie about the number of users hiting their firmware server since yesterday, did we talk to them/ask if them if they are fine having our user hammering their resources?
[13:06] <seb128> he doesn't complain about it in the post/sounds positive about it but I wonder if that might become an issue as more users upgrade
[13:18] <attente> seb128: maybe canonical can offer resources for that?
[13:18] <attente> it would be a nice gesture
[13:19] <seb128> attente, is that a "no" then? e.g we didn't discuss the topic at all with them?
[13:19] <seb128> or you don't know
[13:19] <seb128> ?
[13:19] <seb128> but yeah, offer resources
[13:19] <attente> seb128: that's a no, i didn't even anticipate that problem :)
[13:19] <seb128> or have our own server
[13:19] <desrt> good morning ubuntu
[13:19] <desrt> how's the hangover? :)
[13:20] <seb128> I don't know how comfortable we have having all our desktop install "dialing" into a third party infra daily
[13:20] <seb128> we are*
[13:20] <desrt> seb128: based on the 'enthusiastic' response we've received every time we try anything of the sort, i'm going to go with 'not' :)
[13:21] <seb128> hey desrt! doing good, back to business, some crazy distroer even dealing with yaks ;-)
[13:21] <seb128> desrt, yeah, me too...
[13:22]  * desrt eats a chocolatine with powdered sugar on top
[13:22]  * desrt is conflicted
[13:22] <seb128> that sounds wrong
[13:23] <seb128> shound be icing
[13:23] <seb128> should
[13:23] <desrt> i already told the guy at the counter that he's lucky that no french person is in here
[13:23] <seb128> lol
[13:39] <pitti> hey desrt!
[13:39] <desrt> hello pitti :)
[13:39] <desrt> i'm coming to visit your country soon
[13:40]  * desrt will spend 2 hours there on sunday :)
[13:40] <pitti> desrt: that stretches the meaning of "visit" quite a bit :)
[13:41] <desrt> i also have a short vacation there during may :p
[13:42] <desrt> pitti: what are you up to lately?
[13:42] <pitti> desrt: fun with the release up to last night, and opening yakkety right now :)
[13:43] <desrt> oh seriously
[13:43] <desrt> we actually called it that?
[13:43] <pitti> desrt: apparently so
[13:43] <pitti> yodelling yak would have been fun :)
[13:43] <desrt> awesome.  just awesome.
[13:44] <seb128> desrt, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/yakkety
[13:44] <desrt> finally a release name that i can get behind!
[13:45] <seb128> pitti, desrt, google insist on it being written "yakety", did we typo that?
[13:45] <desrt> ya.  i was noticing that and wondering if this is part of mark's plan to convince the word to spell this word differently
[13:46] <desrt> i'm sure the spelling was carefully considered and that there is a good reason for it..... but what? :)
[13:46] <pitti> seb128: dictionary wise neither is a real word :)
[13:47] <desrt> maybe it's to avoid infringing copyright on the song title :p
[13:47] <desrt> ...or to make it easier to search for *our* yakkety yak
[13:47] <desrt> but mostly i just see a million google results pages "...did you mean 'yakety'?"
[13:48] <seb128> pitti, well, http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/yak has "yackety-yak"
[13:48] <desrt> we're already 3rd hit on yakkety, so i guess this will go fairly well, in fact
[13:48] <seb128> :-)
[13:48]  * desrt is particularly enjoying her morning caffeine buzz today
[13:49] <desrt> i wonder if these people are on to something with the sugar on the chocolatines
[13:50] <seb128> are you sure it was sugar? :p
[13:50] <desrt> lol
[14:09]  * qengho afk lunch
[14:29]  * Sweet5hark feels sorry for the folks watching the social media accounts for this company: http://yakketyyakllc.com/social-media-marketing/
[14:31] <ogra_> the company might like us now though :)
[14:31] <ogra_> free ads ! :)
[15:06] <attente> seb128: hughsie said that the fwupd servers are at 3% load, but if it ever gets really bad, he would update the cache time and ask us to cherry pick that
[15:06] <seb128> attente, ok, willcooke emailed him as well
[15:08] <willcooke> he just replied, it's not a problem.  But we should get our own servers up I think.  We can start that next week
[15:08] <seb128> yes
[15:25] <seb128> dpm, pitti, what is defining what goes in -gnome langpacks?
[15:25] <seb128> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/249587950/ubuntu-xenial-translations.tar.gz has evolution-3.18.po
[15:25] <seb128> but they are missing from the langpacks in xenial
[15:25] <seb128> well the .mo are
[15:28] <pitti> seb128: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-langpack/langpack-o-matic/main/view/head:/lib/pkg_classify.py, but that's fairly unrelated
[15:28] <pitti> as that just decides between -gnome and main
[15:28] <pitti> if it's missing entirely, there's a different problem
[15:28] <seb128> seems to be
[15:29] <pitti> WARNING: unknown translation domain: evolution-3.18
[15:29] <pitti> hm, missing from mapping.txt?
[15:29] <seb128> http://packages.ubuntu.com/search?searchon=contents&keywords=evolution-3.18.mo&mode=filename&suite=xenial&arch=any
[15:29] <seb128> weird
[15:29] <pitti> seb128: if you have it downloaded already, mind checking?
[15:29] <seb128> 3 langpacks have one
[15:30] <pitti> seb128: I guess those are obsolete ones which fell under the 5% treshold
[15:30] <seb128> likely
[15:30] <pitti> langpack@snakefruit:/srv/language-packs.ubuntu.com/xenial$ find -name evolution-3.18*
[15:30] <pitti> -> nothing
[15:30] <seb128> let me check for the mapping.txt
[15:31] <pitti> e-d-s-3.18 seems fine
[15:31] <pitti> seb128: or it's another bug with multiple domains from one package (sil2100 fixed that some weeks ago, but perhaps not completely)
[15:31] <seb128> did we rebuild xenial langpacks with that fix applied?
[15:32] <pitti> yes
[15:32] <sil2100> hmm
[15:35] <seb128> pitti, the mapping has
[15:35] <seb128> evolution evolution-3.18
[15:35] <seb128> evolution-data-server evolution-data-server-3.18
[15:35] <seb128> evolution-indicator evolution-indicator
[15:35] <pitti> ok, that looks fine
[15:36] <pitti> but sorry, no steam today any more to debug this still, and need to run in about 10 minutes anyway
[15:36] <pitti> bug report appreciated
[15:37] <seb128> pitti, we have bug #1545212 opened on february
[15:37] <seb128> shrug, I reassigned back then but forgot to follow up
[15:37] <pitti> ah, thanks
[15:40] <seb128> np, thanks for the replies
[15:40] <xclaesse> wow, totem 3.18 is a MASSIVE perf regression o_O
[15:40] <xclaesse> it can't even play a 640x480 mp4 smoothly anymore
[15:40] <xclaesse> on my older laptop connected on my tv
[15:41] <xclaesse> with gst-play and vlc the video play fine
[15:41] <seb128> xclaesse, :-(
[15:41] <xclaesse> but with totem I get like 10fps, it's impossible to watch
[15:41] <seb128> xclaesse, does it work better if you use the old totem version?
[15:41] <xclaesse> on my newer x230 laptop totem runs fine though
[15:42] <seb128> could also be something in gstreamer stack that changelog
[15:42] <xclaesse> seb128, was working just fine on 14.04
[15:42] <seb128> gst-play and totem might use different pipelines/elements
[15:42] <xclaesse> I suspect clutter/cogl, tbh, but with no proof atm
[15:43] <seb128> pitti, where did you see that "WARNING: unknown translation domain: evolution-3.18" warning?
[15:43] <seb128> xclaesse, could be yes
[16:01] <Laney> Well, yes, it was known that firmware updates are going to use the LVFS. That's a goal of the service.
[16:02]  * seb128 googles LVFS and finds "Linux Vendor Firmware Service"
[16:03] <Laney> It's the work that superm1 was enabling
[16:03] <seb128> just curious but is it owned by hughsie himself?
[16:03] <seb128> or on some fdo or such infra?
[16:04] <Laney> I think it's on a RedHat machine, but you could go ask him
[16:04]  * superm1 pokes in
[16:04] <superm1> openshift IIRC
[16:04]  * seb128 googles openshift as well :p
[16:04] <seb128> oh, a RH thing
[16:05] <superm1> when i talked to hughsie, he was confident he could handle the load from this getting into distros
[16:05] <superm1> but willing to expand out to a mirroring system if need be
[16:05] <seb128> well anyway, I've no clue if we are fine using that or if we want our how mirror/server, willcooke is going to investigate
[16:07] <Laney> Call it the Ubuntu Firmware Service while you're at it
[16:07] <superm1> something that could be explored is just mirroring metadata (and metadata signature) somewhere else ubuntuey and still pulling firmware from his service instead
[16:07] <seb128> Laney, :-p
[16:07] <seb128> I've a feeling you don't like the idea how having a mirror
[16:09] <superm1> the metadata and firmware can realistically be hosted in separate places.  authenticity is verified for them separately on each of them
[16:10] <seb128> yeah, unsure if that's needed
[16:11] <seb128> it just feels suboptimal to rely on an external service we have no garantee about
[16:12] <jcastro> anyone have a link to the server side component he's using?
[16:13] <seb128> jcastro, https://github.com/hughsie/lvfs-website I guess
[16:15] <superm1> Yeah that's his site.
[16:22] <seb128> Laney, are you back home btw? had a good train back?
[16:33] <Laney> seb128: yeah, train was mostly non eventful
[16:33] <Laney> I found a cool turkish place quite near to st pancras and had some lunch there
[16:33] <Laney> börek
[16:40] <seb128> that looks good
[16:40]  * seb128 starts being hundry and wouldn't say no to some börek
[16:46]  * desrt looks that up
[16:46] <desrt> mmm.  now i'm hungry too.  thanks :p
[17:16] <Laney> after I wrote that I found the second half of my börek in my bag and ate it
[17:16] <Laney> :D
[17:26] <seb128> have a good w.e everyone, see you on sunday!
[17:48] <dobey> hrmm, i wonder why sometimes my volume control keybindings just stop working
[17:48] <dobey> so weird
[17:49] <JanC> I wonder why gnome-terminal breaks dead keys in xenial (also weird)
[17:51] <JanC> breaks dead keys & compose
[17:59] <qengho> JanC: My compose works in gnome-terminal, FWIW.
[18:03] <JanC> hm
[18:04] <JanC> qengho: do you have customized compose keys (in ~/.XCompose)?
[18:07] <qengho> JanC: No.
[18:30] <JanC> roxterm doesn't have the bug, so seems like it's in gnome-terminal and not libvte
[19:53] <qengho> JanC: Compare your environments between terminal emulators too. Is LANG the same?
[20:16] <JanC> $LANG shouldn't influence keyboard layout
[21:03] <qengho> JanC: Yes, but (I think) LANG should influence what compose mappings are loaded.
[21:04] <JanC> it really shouldn't  :)
[21:05] <JanC> $LANG seems to be the same everywhere though
[21:07] <qengho> Ooh, that's the encoding, not the locale. Sorry, JanC.
[22:09] <JanC> hm, nautilus has the same problem
[22:13] <JanC> so, seems like the bug is related to the xim input module


[00:17] <stewart> hi! i'm using bzrlib to write a script that iterates through a sequence of revisions and applies them to a different tree. I'm using show_diff_trees to extract a patch, but I need to skip over merge revisions so I don't end up trying to do work twice. how do i work out if a revision is a merge revision?
[00:17] <spiv> stewart: look at the parents of the revision
[00:17] <spiv> merge revisions have >1 parent revision
[00:18] <lifeless> stewart: you could use use bzr-rewrite ;)
[00:18] <stewart> spiv, ahh..
[00:18] <stewart> lifeless, haven't been able to get it even to remotely work for my branches.
[00:18] <stewart> lifeless, plus, i need to apply transformations :)
[00:18] <lifeless> stewart: its designed to do that
[00:18] <stewart> lifeless, because regex over patches is an excellent idea :)
[00:18] <lifeless> its not entirely fleshed out, but thats the intent
[00:19] <spiv> But I agree with lifeless that this is something that bzr-rewrite ought to support.
[00:19] <spiv> (even though I can totally believe it's not quite there yet)
[00:21] <stewart> i couldn't get it to apply just a few revisions :)
[00:25] <spiv> stewart: you tried 'bzr replay -r N..M -d TARGET FROM_BRANCH'?
[00:26] <stewart> spiv, IIRC (was a few weeks ago), yes. needs mapping of paths thoguh.
[00:27] <stewart> oh wow... i'm now blowing up when iterating through revisions that have been merged from another repository... doh.
[00:29] <spiv> Hmm, in theory that should already support arbitrary transformations too, via --merge-type, if you implement a plugin that provides the transformation you want as a new merge type...
[00:29] <spiv> (A fairly cumbersome way to do it, obviously)
[07:06] <vila> hi all
[07:06] <fullermd> What?!  You just said that yesterday!
[07:07] <vila> hmm, then today is another day. QED.
[07:08] <fullermd> I can't deal with another day.  I haven't even reconciled myself to yesterday yet.
[07:16] <jelmer> 'morning vila, fullermd
[07:16] <jelmer> fullermd: hey, aren't you in the US?
[07:16] <jelmer> hmm, maybe that was another fullermd
[07:16] <fullermd> Oh god, there are two of me?!
[07:16] <fullermd> I am, yes.
[07:17] <jelmer> fullermd: isn't it the middle of the night for you then?
[07:18] <fullermd> Well, not for _me_.  Maybe for the other losers in my TZ, but that's their own fault for not synchronizing with the One True Time (i.e., mine).
[07:18] <vila> jelmer: that's because you're often up at this hour :) But fullermd don't sleep anyway
[07:18] <vila> doesn't, grr ttoyyops
[07:18] <fullermd> Sleep is for wimps.
[07:18] <fullermd> Happy, healthy, well-rested wimps.  But wimps nonetheless.
[07:19] <jelmer> vila: Heh, perhaps :-) I guess it's not yet midnight on the west coast
[07:19] <fullermd> I'm in the same TZ as jam.  0119 now.
[07:19]  * jelmer is slowly transforming from a student into a civilian
[07:19] <fullermd> Way better time to get work done than at 1319.  People call me then.
[07:20] <jelmer> heh, fair enough :-)
[07:20] <vila> fullermd: you'd better unplug the phone once and for all
[07:20] <fullermd> I tried that once.  Eventually somebody actually physically came by.  That's way worse  ;)
[07:21] <jelmer> vila: bzr 2.3b3 uploaded to unstable
[07:21] <poolie> hi jelmer, vila
[07:21] <vila> jelmer: cool
[07:21] <vila> poolie: hey !
[07:21] <jelmer> 'evening poolie!
[07:23] <GaryvdM> Morning all
[07:23] <vila> . o O ( GaryvdM is following fullermd into the never-sleeping land...)
[07:23] <vila> GaryvdM: hey !
[07:23] <GaryvdM> Hey
[07:24] <fullermd> Individually, we are merely groggy and harassed.  But together, we are a force to b...zzzzzzzz...
[07:25] <GaryvdM> My sleep habbits are much better than when I was at the ice rink. I often woked till 6am. Now I only work to 1:30 am..
[08:12] <vila> ping LOSA, any news or feedback about rt #41340
[08:23] <vila> jelmer: I can't see 2.3b3 with `rmadison -u debian bzr` . Is there some lag or something failed ?
[08:25] <jelmer> vila: it usually takes a while before it's processed. I believe the publishing happens 4 times a day at the moment.
[08:25] <vila> jelmer: ok, so lag it is, thanks
[08:25] <bob2> iirc rmadison depends on the mirror pulse
[08:25] <jelmer> vila: http://packages.qa.debian.org/b/bzr.html is up to date
[09:22] <vila> ping LOSA, any news or feedback about rt #41340
[14:38] <GaryvdM> jelmer_ : I'm getting this error with my bzr 2.3b3 build: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/528719/  I'm not sure where to start looking for the problem. Any pointers?
[14:39] <jelmer_> GaryvdM: no idea, sorry
[14:39] <GaryvdM> Ok
[16:19] <GaryvdM> jelmer_: I figured out the issue. The installer was including a "SHFOLDER.dll". Removing this fixed it. Really odd.
[16:30] <jelmer_> GaryvdM, hmmok
[16:31] <jam> GaryvdM: fairly often you can get system dlls that aren't properly marked, and thus py2exe doesn't filter them out automatically
[16:31] <jam> there is a decent sized list of ones we've found so far :)
[16:35] <vila> GaryvdM: approved
[16:35] <GaryvdM> Hi jam
[16:35] <GaryvdM> vila: Thanks - I'll land
[16:53] <GaryvdM> vila: I'm trying to run bzr selftest with my windows installer, but it seems to just hang.
[16:54] <GaryvdM> I'm not sure if it is something wrong with my installer, or an existing problem.
[16:54] <vila> GaryvdM: unheard of, we are at 4 or 5 failures on babune
[16:55] <vila> GaryvdM: try with -v to see which one is hanging
[16:56] <GaryvdM> vila: ok
[16:56] <vila> GaryvdM: and --no-plugins :)
[17:02] <GaryvdM> vila: blackbox.test_breakin.TestBreakin.test_breakin_harder
[17:02]  * GaryvdM goes to read test
[17:06] <vila> GaryvdM: forget it, it's blacklisted on babune
[17:07] <GaryvdM> Oh
[17:07] <GaryvdM> vila: how can I see you blacklist?
[17:07] <vila> GaryvdM: or rather, try running with -x 'TestBreakin'
[17:08] <vila> GaryvdM: and then file  a bug about it
[17:08] <vila> or check for duplicate, I've lost steam fighting its failures :-/
[17:09] <GaryvdM> vila: ok
[17:23] <jam> GaryvdM: AIUI, the issue is that signals and threads don't get along, and our test suite still leaks threads
[17:23] <jam> if you run the breakin tests by themselves, they work fine
[17:24] <GaryvdM> Oh
[17:24] <jam> trying to confirm now
[17:25] <jam> Ran 3 tests in 6.681s
[17:28] <jam> GaryvdM: so they work here, but I won't guarantee they work w the installer, etc. I also just ran "bzr selftest -s bb" and it seems to be passing
[17:28] <jam> so I don't really know how to get the bad interaction that causes them to hang and fail
[17:28] <jam> it may also be one of the "you have to have more than one processor" side effects, etc.
[17:29] <jam> I got the win32 test suite to pass without skipping on multi-processor machines a while ago (could have bit rotted), but vila was convinced we needed it to always pass on single-cpu machines, so put in the extra effort for that
[17:29] <jam> and multi-core machines seem to have fewer bugs wrt threading (at least fewer deadlocks, etc)
[17:30] <vila> jam: meh, we're not supposed to leak threads anymore (except for the paramiko ones and even there..)
[17:30] <jam> vila: good to hear
[17:31] <jam> though still "bzr selftest -s bb" passes cleanly here (or everything has passed in the last 4m which should include breakin tests)
[17:31] <vila> that's the problem with transient failures in tests, they pass in some places...
[17:36] <jam> vila: IME breakin fails reliably for some people, but succeeds reliably for me
[17:36] <jam> FAILED (errors=1, known_failure_count=2)
[17:36] <jam> 135 tests skipped
[17:36] <vila> jam: but whether or not multi-core machines has less bugs, it would be nice to have TestBreakin passing everywhere since it's our guarantee that C-\ works
[17:37] <jam> And a failure while reporting about a missing feature...
[17:37] <vila> jam: file a bug, these are hard to track otherwise
[17:37] <jam> vila: I wouldn't be surprised if it is a testtools issue, I'm still at 0.9.3
[17:38] <jam> I don't really feel like fighting with that
[17:38] <vila> jam: don't fight, file :)
[17:47] <jam> filed bug #673128
[17:54] <sakura13> good evening
[17:55] <sakura13> i have a problem with bazaar how can i setup a webserver for it that my workers can use the same files for our project
[17:56] <GaryvdM> sakura13: hi. What OS? Why does is have to be a webserver, and not some other file share?
[17:57] <Peng> Assuming nothing has gone horribly wrong in the six months I haven't been paying attention: You don't have to do much setup. Just dump the .bzr directory somewhere a web server can serve the files.
[17:57] <sakura13> GaryvdM:  wait a sec my project leaders comes in few secs
[17:57] <Peng> You *can* set up the smart server program, but it's not necessary. It just makes things faster.
[17:58] <sakura13> Peng: moment pls project and server owner comes in few secs
[17:58] <GaryvdM> Peng: non smart http is read only.
[17:58] <Peng> GaryvdM: Oh, err, good point. Peng hasn't slept much.
[17:59] <Peng> Then, add SSH or SFTP for that! :P
[18:03] <GaryvdM> vila: oh boy - I've got some bug logging to do. 5345/28465 tests run, and allready 104 fails
[18:04] <sakura13> Swonline: hi
[18:04] <92AABIV95> Hi, is anyone aware of a command or plugin that will let me list revisions with or by their size? Basically, I'm trying to identify a revision that introduced a really large amount of stuff that was subsequently deleted so I can attempt to get rid of them.
[18:06] <Swonline> How do I set up a server?
[18:07] <vila> GaryvdM: if you're running from bzr.exe you may be the first one :-/
[18:07] <vila> GaryvdM: don't let it come in the way of releasing, I don't think these are *new* failures
[18:07] <sakura13> vila: GaryvdM its my project leader he want setup the server for our project with bazaar
[18:08] <GaryvdM> Swonline, sakura13: A bzr smart server is not needed to host a bazaar branch. What OS is you server?
[18:08] <vila> GaryvdM: but it will be good to fix them nevertheless (probably by skipping)
[18:09] <Swonline> windows
[18:09] <GaryvdM> Swonline, sakura13: The easiest is to create a window file share.
[18:10] <Swonline> how to?
[18:10] <sakura13> GaryvdM: hmm did it worked without server that we can make a networkhardrive
[18:10] <sakura13> GaryvdM: on our pc
[18:10] <GaryvdM> Swonline, sakura13: bzr init \\server\share\proj-name
[18:12] <sakura13> i use atm bazaar explorer
[18:13] <sakura13> ok if i made a branch
[18:13] <sakura13> and upload it with ftp to my server
[18:13] <sakura13> and give the workers the path to the branch
[18:13] <sakura13> will bazaar open it can work with it
[18:13] <sakura13> ?
[18:15] <Peng> FTP is a rather awful protocol.
[18:15] <Peng> Well, plus the implementations tend to be rather awful.
[18:15] <sakura13> yes i know but i dont have ssh acces
[18:15] <GaryvdM> sakura13: Yes - you can upload your branch to the server with bzr push ftp://server/yourbranchname (or a windows file share with bzr push \\server\share\proj-name)
[18:16] <Peng> My condolences.
[18:16] <sakura13> GaryvdM: hmm and what type of branch did we need to share files and so on
[18:16] <sakura13> GaryvdM:  i have used before p4 thats my problem :)
[18:17] <GaryvdM> What type of branch: Any bzr branch
[18:17] <sakura13> GaryvdM:  i have here different work modules colcated, feature, plain and shared branch
[18:19] <GaryvdM> sakura13: You probably want a shared repository
[18:19] <GaryvdM> sakura13: But plain branch is  fine
[18:20] <sakura13> GaryvdM:  and what is the diffrent of a branch and a plain
[18:20] <Peng> Branches in shared repositories share their data. It's more efficient.
[18:21] <Peng> But there's no functional difference. It's just faster and less disk-intensive.
[18:21] <Peng> Well, plus it makes complicated auth a pain since everybody needs to be able to write to the repo...
[18:21] <sakura13> becuase we must have merge files, work on the same files and so n
[18:23] <GaryvdM> sakura13: Can I recommend that you go though http://doc.bazaar.canonical.com/latest/en/mini-tutorial/ - I'm sure things will be a lot clearer afterwards.
[18:23] <sakura13> damn if i open my ftp bzr it crash
[18:23] <sakura13> -.-
[18:24] <Peng> What? If bzr crashes, paste the traceback at http://paste.ubuntu.com/ . Or the URL if you have that helper thingy enabled.
[18:25] <sakura13> i dont use command line on windows
[18:25] <sakura13> i use atm the gui
[18:25] <sakura13> and dont see any debug
[18:26] <sakura13> but i try now with bazzar on cmd i hate windows cmd but ok
[18:27] <sakura13> hmm but one thing i dont understand
[18:27] <sakura13> if i change some files with bazaar
[18:27] <sakura13> to example i put a new file on it
[18:27] <sakura13> ahh its ok
[18:29] <GaryvdM> sakura13: http://doc.bazaar.canonical.com/explorer/en/guide/processes/starting_a_project.html <- explains the different branch types you saw.
[18:31] <GaryvdM> If you select "Feature branches" it creates a shared repo, and a trunk branch for you. (I just learnt that...)
[18:32] <GaryvdM> So that's the recommended.
[18:32] <GaryvdM> You would then create you feature branches in the shares repo.
[18:37] <GaryvdM> Night all.
[18:46] <sakura13> k thx
[19:10] <eridu> I have gpg_signing_command = false in my ~/bazaar/bazaar.conf, and gpg-signing still works. what's going on? I'm using v2.2.1 (in Ubuntu 10.10)
[19:11] <eridu> (I know signing works because I see the "You need a password..." message in my terminal when I run bzr ci)
[19:15] <bob2> branch-specific bazar.conf?
[19:15] <eridu> nope, global
[19:16] <eridu> it was my fault
[19:16] <eridu> I set gpg_signing_commmand by accident
[19:17] <eridu> what's especially ironic is that I tested setting gpg_signing_asdfcommand to see if bzr would give me an "invalid configuration key"-type error, and it didn't, but I still was change-blind
[19:37] <poolie> hi all, hi bob2
[19:37] <bob2> 'morning
[19:57] <Silasle> Is there some guide to register you whit bzr (on launchpad)?
[19:58] <maxb> `bzr help launchpad-login`
[19:59] <Silasle> And then?
[20:00] <maxb> and then what?
[20:00] <Silasle> Dont i need some ssh keys?
[20:01] <maxb> yes
[20:02] <Silasle> How do i create them
[20:04] <Peng> THere's nothing LP-specific about creating SSH keys, although I think they have some guides anyway.
[20:04] <maxb> I have no idea where there might be a pleasant tutorial for this sort of stuff, sorry. I learn it so long ago that it's fairly alien to explain for me
[20:04] <Silasle> Ok, i found the guide
[20:05] <Silasle> launchpad-login and ssh keys is everything i need?
[20:07] <Silasle> Ok, thanks
[20:31] <jam> poolie: hey, are you online already? /wave
[20:32] <poolie> hi jam, i am
[20:33] <mgz> jam, is the bug 673128 about the UnicodeDecodeError? I marked it as a dupe of the testtools bug I fixed to start with, but I'm not sure you didn't mean something else.
[20:34] <jam> mgz: Well, I got the failure during the "XX tests skipped due to ..." section
[20:34] <jam> not while actually running the tests
[20:34] <jam> It may be due to testtools
[20:34] <jam> vila said "don't think, just file"
[20:34] <mgz> I agree with the sentiment, I'm just having trouble understanding the bug. :)
[20:37] <mgz> that traceback certainly doesn't come from the printing-skip-reasons phase. perhaps some kind of stream buffering thing?
[20:37] <jam> mgz: it would be a very strange buffering.
[20:37] <mgz> oh, wait, I know
[20:37] <jam> It definitely happens after the "10 tests skipped by 'foo'" has been reported
[20:37] <mgz> it's just bzrlib being helpful and printing out the error that broke it at the end
[20:37] <jam> but before the missing "unicode" feature is reported (or something like that)
[20:38] <mgz> for whatever reason you didn't get any more skip things listed.
[20:42] <mgz> anyway, upgrade and bug with bother you no more.
[20:42] <mgz> and you'll also be able to write tests that deal with unicode things.
[20:46] <spiv> Silasle: https://help.launchpad.net/YourAccount/CreatingAnSSHKeyPair
[20:47] <Silasle> spiv, Thanks but i'm already done :)
[21:04] <poolie> mkanat, hi?
[21:04] <poolie> hello emmajane!
[21:05] <emmajane> poolie, ola!
[21:40] <lifeless> sladen: actually, hi here.
[21:43] <sladen> lifeless: and here!
[21:44] <lifeless> hi
[21:44] <lifeless> so you seem to be filing a large number of bugs which seem like first-impressions issues, not functional problems.
[21:45] <lifeless> and particularly biased towards folk with existing muscle memory
[21:46] <lifeless> this doesn't seem like a particularly useful way to address whatever use case you're working on : consider what would happen if you filed bugs on dpkg that it doesn't support apts options, or on rpm that it doesn't support dpkg's options.
[21:46] <lifeless> sladen: so I thought I'd try to engage you in a higher level discussion
[21:47] <sladen> lifeless: yup, I've been chating to poolie in the background over this
[21:47] <poolie> sladen, perhaps we should just talk here
[21:48] <poolie> lifeless, yes i was just making the same point
[21:49] <poolie> people who want _exactly_ the git ui, byte for byte and bug for bug, are unlikely to ever be satisfied by bzr
[21:50] <poolie> on the other hand bugs about things that are missing features, or that are inconsistent within bzr on its own right, are worth noting
[21:50] <sladen> the general background is being (forced?) to start using bzr where for I had been using git for the last few
[21:51] <poolie> if i can draw another analogy
[21:51] <poolie> people file a bunch of bugs about ubuntu being different to mac os, or to windows
[21:51] <poolie> there may be a good point behind them but they are not generally very productive bugs ime
[21:52] <sladen> so "bzr commit -a" falls into that category
[21:53] <sladen> others, like bzr diff blocking whilst writing a bzr commit are workflow blockers
[21:53] <sladen> and still others (bzr pager by default) are out-standing issues from before I ever used git
[21:54] <sladen> it's just that (in the latter case), having used something else, it confirms the original issue
[21:55] <lifeless> sladen: so some of this is perspective
[21:55] <lifeless> sladen: for instance, the pager thing really should be fixed in your shell.
[21:55] <lifeless> sladen: its nuts to change every single tool to do its own pagination
[21:56] <sladen> lifeless: and that may ever well be a good point
[21:57] <sladen> lifeless: (but doesn't help get the reported issue fixed)
[21:57] <sladen> s/ever/very/
[22:00] <lifeless> sladen: well, part of it is whether its a good idea or not
[22:01] <lifeless> sladen: the reported issue can be viewed in a few lights - concretely, I /loathe/ gits auto pagination stuff.
[22:01] <lifeless> it invariably gets in my way when I use git.
[22:01] <sladen> lifeless: yup, and you're a poweruser, and can disable it
[22:01] <sladen> lifeless: it's not a use-case I'm interested in
[22:01] <lifeless> sladen: non powerusers can use GUI's
[22:01] <lifeless> sladen: if you want to get into an argument on that angle
[22:01] <lifeless> but I don't think an argument is a good way to move forward
[22:02] <lifeless> we want bzr to be joyful to use for as many people as possible
[22:02] <sladen> lifeless: yup, and there are plenty of choices for dvcs so people vote with their feet
[22:02] <sladen> lifeless: the question is, why did we, with a one year headstart, end up with less user-base than other dvcsen
[22:03] <lifeless> sladen: s/one year/2 months/
[22:03] <poolie> sladen, that's more of what I would call a 'beer question' than a 9am in the morning question
[22:03] <poolie> i realize you're in a different tz
[22:04] <poolie> at the moment i'm more interested in what we can best do this week and in the next few months
[22:04] <poolie> taking into account mistakes we might have made in the past
[22:04] <poolie> one of them was making it too hard to get patches in, and i think that is now a lot better (i'd welcome evidence to the contrary)
[22:05] <sladen> I don't think there are mistakes, were are where we are because of how things unfolded, and wouldn't be otherwise
[22:05] <sladen> just as, on the desktop we are where we are
[22:05] <poolie> another was not being systematic about performance, and that is somewhat better now, though not ideal
[22:06] <sladen> speed and illusions of interactivity are not the same---an iPhone draws pretty zooming windows with the GPU while the application takes 1-2 seconds to starts up on the CPU
[22:07] <poolie> sure
[22:07] <sladen> the conversation (feels) uncomfortably confrontation---which is why I'm being hesitant
[22:08] <poolie> bzr with progress bars on certainly feels different to without
[22:08] <sladen> it's not something I wish for, but it 9am or midnight
[22:08] <poolie> (though again, the progress bars are not perfect in either coverage or implementation)
[22:08] <poolie> no, me either, and i don't want to be defensive
[22:10] <lifeless> one thing I think in particular rubs about bugs that reference the git UI
[22:10] <lifeless> nearly -everyone- I know, including git afficiondos, dislikes the git UI
[22:11] <lifeless> I'd much rather see 'Foo was confusing, I looked on the web, in the help, and finally found an answer in the corner of ...' - thats a symptom we can definitely work on to improve.
[22:11] <lifeless> Adding to that that git does X, svn does Y, hg does Z can be good inspiration to fix it.
[22:12] <lifeless> but the actual /problem/ encountered is squarely and clearly focused on defects in bzr, not on comparisons which are rather more subjective.
[22:20] <sladen> lifeless: I agree, I've tried to use the wording "other dvcs" and not being specific about it
[22:20] <sladen> lifeless: this issues are all (I think) about usability---if usability is accepted as a defect in bzr, then that matches the spirit in which the bugs were reported
[22:21] <lifeless> sladen: usability is very much a defect
[22:21] <lifeless> blah, take that in the spirit intended
[22:22] <poolie> i think the reports are fine
[22:22] <poolie> in spirit
[22:23] <poolie> i agree with robert that saying "there is this problem, other people have done X" is kind of grounding it better
[22:23] <poolie> responses to bugs that suggest workarounds often make me uncomfortable
[22:23] <poolie> it's one thing to say "thanks, that is a bug, in the interim until we fix it you can do Y"
[22:23] <poolie> it's much less good to give the impression that because a workaround is possible we're denying there's a bug
[22:23] <sladen> +1
[22:36] <peitschie> (mornin sladen, poolie, lifeless and all you other lurkers :)  )
[22:37] <sladen> good morning poolie
[22:37] <poolie> hi there
[22:37] <sladen> peitschie even
[22:37] <peitschie> :)
[22:40] <jbowtie> Hello, also welcome back, poolie
[22:44] <peitschie> hi jbowtie
[22:44] <jbowtie> My email inbox is unusually full of bug activity this week.
[22:46] <jbowtie> Oh, right, UDS.
[22:49] <jbowtie> poolie, did you finally hire a BSE? (noticed that ad is gone from IRC topic) Congrats.
[22:49] <poolie> jbowtie, we did
[22:50] <poolie> i'll send a mail
[23:15] <jbowtie> I have to say the new release of bzr-tfs seems to be much better integrated, those per-foreign-vcs tests are very helpful.
[23:23] <poolie> excellent
[23:25] <maxb> hmm. the clearing of progress displays seems to have regressed again
[23:26] <maxb> "Pulling /home/maxb/wc/bzr/udd/trunk from bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/~udd/udd/import-scripts/shing stream" says my multi-pull