[00:11] <ochosi> knome: in case that calms you down, ubiquity will at least be readable in quantal (after xnox's patches are merged)
[00:11] <ochosi> knome: there are still some problems, i commented on the respective bugreports
[00:12] <ochosi> knome: to be exact #1010487 and #924909
[00:13] <ochosi> knome: for the latter i tested the fix we talked about (switch off compositor), created a branch and submitted that for review (if it doesn't get accepted, poke stgraber or cjwatson about it)
[07:25] <knome> ochosi, that's good news
[07:32] <knome> bug #1046667
[07:32] <knome> ;)
[07:33] <knome> gna, brb
[07:35] <elfy> that caught me out too :)
[07:40] <knome> what i don't completely understand is why didn't you both try to play a video? :)
[07:41] <knome> where would a vignetted image like that come from
[07:48] <elfy> I rarely play videos on the PC and use it for music sometimes :)
[07:56] <knome> bbl
[07:57] <mips1911> anybody know the original upstream 'repo' for gvfs?
[09:44] <ochosi> knome: lol, nice parole error
[09:46] <elfy> are we not using the xubuntu wiki short/long tests anymore ? or is it just that all the testcase are the ones written by nskaggs on the tracker?
[10:20] <ochosi> knome: i'm marking our bug #1010487 as duplicate of this one #744283
[10:20] <ochosi> knome: since the patch at least fixes the colors, i think that's fine
[10:21] <ochosi> maybe when ubiquity is properly patched the theme gets loaded properly as well with this patch
[10:21] <ochosi> otherwise we'll just report a new bug, i'd say
[10:21] <smartboyhw> Bug #744283
[10:58] <knome> ochosi, yup
[10:58] <ochosi> i've done it already anyway :)
[10:58] <ochosi> i also submitted a new, corrected, branch for review to ubiquity
[10:58] <knome> elfy, we should update the testcases on the QA tracker, yeah
[10:59] <knome> ochosi, did you read cjwatson's comments?
[10:59] <knome> ochosi, or was this corrected stuff about that
[10:59] <ochosi> sure, i just branched the wrong thing last night
[10:59] <ochosi> now the patch is as tiny as it should be
[10:59] <knome> yeah :D
[10:59] <knome> great
[10:59] <elfy> knome: so use the ones we were using previously - the wiki ones ? just don't want to waste my time :)
[10:59] <knome> huhu
[10:59] <knome> elfy, yes, run those
[10:59] <ochosi> g2g, prolly bbl
[11:00] <knome> elfy, they will be updated on the QA wiki in the following week
[11:00] <elfy> k cheers - I already had ... then saw this new testcase stuff and flipped out completely lol
[11:00] <knome> hehe
[11:00] <knome> yeah
[11:00] <knome> i should do it today or tomorrow
[11:00] <knome> as soon as i have time
[11:01] <knome> i'm now at a railway station so not willing to do it now :P
[11:01] <elfy> or whack a mail of to the list just to let people know
[11:01] <knome> lol
[11:01] <knome> if you can, that'd help ;)
[11:01] <elfy> or I can do one now and you can follow it up
[11:01] <knome> just say they will be moved to the tracker in a week
[11:01] <knome> and you should still run at least the short test
[11:01] <elfy> k - will do that right now - cos I am at home and drinking tea and not at a railway station :D
[11:02] <knome> anyway, i had a nice 2 hours with the guy running the linux courses
[11:02] <elfy> yea - well I run the short test and then the long test basically for milestones
[11:02] <knome> i think i just talked us up to 60 tests for beta2
[11:02] <knome> and that's totally doable again with other releases...
[11:02] <knome> he was really excited about it all, so good sign for us
[11:03] <knome> maybe i'll even go there and talk a bit about linux..
[11:04] <knome> elfy, and thanks for sending the email :)
[11:04] <elfy> welcome
[11:05] <knome> do you possible have time to look at the docs today?
[11:05] <knome> there are a few sections/subpages that only need reviewing
[11:05] <knome> if we got those reviewed and ACK'd, i could start converting them to docobok
[11:05] <knome> docbook too
[11:05] <knome> and we'd save ourself from some hassle
[11:06] <elfy> I can yea - got a bit frustrated earlier
[11:06] <knome> hehe
[11:06] <knome> things will look much more brighter when we get to review those pages
[11:06] <knome> and get them uploaded
[11:06] <knome> i think we have almost half on docbook then
[11:07] <elfy> excellent
[11:07] <knome> that might be positive thinking
[11:07] <knome> but at least we'll have quite a lot then
[11:07] <elfy> positice thinking is the best way
[11:07] <pnarciso> so, are  going ahead with beta 1 or suspend until the install issues are fixed?
[11:08] <knome> it looks like we need to skip beta1
[11:08] <elfy> knome: I'll send to xubuntu-devel/xubuntu-users and ubuntu-qa ?
[11:08] <knome> elfy, -devel is fine i think
[11:09] <knome> elfy, but feel free to send to all
[11:09] <elfy> ok - not the -qa then - I'd send to -users - might even get someone to think "Hey, perhaps I could help there"
[11:10] <elfy> sent now
[11:10] <knome> elfy, yup, thanks :)
[11:12] <smartboyhw> elfy: So you wanna use the short one or the long one?
[11:12] <elfy> ?
[11:13] <smartboyhw> I mean the short testcase or the long testcase
[11:13] <smartboyhw> The two links you provided in the email
[11:13] <elfy> talk to knome about it please
[11:14] <smartboyhw> Oh alright
[11:14] <elfy> but basically we use them both for milestone releases
[11:15] <knome> i'm probably making the short test mandatory and long test run-once
[11:15] <elfy> makes sense
[11:16] <elfy> I generally check once that encrypted works as expected as well - but that's not on the test cases
[11:16] <smartboyhw> Alright:)
[11:16] <knome> elfy, we can probably reintroduce it now that we don't have alternate
[11:17] <elfy> aah yea - good thought
[11:17] <knome> elfy, but let's talk about this later
[11:17] <elfy> yep
[11:17] <elfy> cya
[11:17] <knome> probably tomorrow
[11:17] <knome> yup, i'm off
[11:17] <knome> see you and have fun! :)
[11:17] <elfy> I'll be about AM and then back in the evening if you want me
[11:17] <smartboyhw> knome: On the "not having the alternate" part, balloons and phillw will be rewriting it:)
[11:17] <smartboyhw> I mean the testcases:)
[11:17] <knome> smartboyhw, we don't have alternate images
[11:18] <knome> smartboyhw, so we don't need alternate testcases.
[11:18] <smartboyhw> I know, since you deleted it
[11:18] <smartboyhw> Or the release team
[11:19] <knome> pleia2?
[11:19] <smartboyhw> But then balloons will be editing the desktop ones to let people get used to not having the alternates
[11:23] <elfy> they'll be rewriting the other stuff not the xubuntu wiki tests I suspect
[11:23] <smartboyhw> elfy: I think knome means to rewrite it on the ISO QA Tracker
[11:24] <elfy> have fun knome
[12:43] <mips1911> How do you guys apply the xubuntu theme to xscreensaver?
[12:54] <smartboyhw> Unit193: PM
[13:14] <ochosi> mips1911: you can't apply any theming to xscreensaver. most of the "style" is hardcoded
[13:14] <pnarciso> Have you made any changes to 12.10 daily yet, regarding the theming issues?
[13:15] <ochosi> pnarciso: you mean ubiquity or which theming issues?
[13:15] <pnarciso> yes, ubiquity
[13:15] <mips1911> ochosi, I recall 12.04 having a custom theme, if you install xscreensave from the repos it lacks the theme so how does it get into ubuntu if it's hardcoded or do you guys ship a different xscreensave packge on the install media?
[13:15] <ochosi> you can follow the merge-requests to see that
[13:16] <ochosi> mips1911: no, 12.04 has the standard awful xscreensaver lockscreen
[13:16] <ochosi> mips1911: this one: http://www.bstegmaier.de/wiki/images/Xscreensaver.png
[13:16] <ochosi> (incl. the terrible terrible pixmap)
[13:17] <mips1911> ochosi, I can swear mine was themed as in 12.10 I now have the plain one
[13:17] <ochosi> mips1911: maybe you used gnome-screensaver
[13:17] <pnarciso> x screensaver is buggy
[13:17] <ochosi> pnarciso: bug #744283: "Merged into lp:ubiquity at revision 5631"
[13:18] <mips1911> ochosi, no definitely xscreensaver
[13:18] <pnarciso> I must disable it because it interferes with games
[13:18] <pnarciso> It doesn't recognise gamepads
[13:18] <ochosi> we'll try to drop it for 13.04 anyway
[13:19] <pnarciso> I'll prefer that my screen enter suspend mode instead of having a screensaver
[13:20] <ochosi> screensavers are already disabled by default in 12.10
[13:20] <ochosi> there's only suspend and then a lockscreen now
[13:20] <pnarciso> if xfce power manager had the option to lock the screen when the monitor enters suspend mode it was the ideal solution
[13:21] <ochosi> it's more or less what will happen, yes
[13:21] <ochosi> we'll try to get lightdm to do the screenlocking
[13:21] <pnarciso> 12.10 have a blank screen screensaver enabled by deafult
[13:22] <ochosi> right
[13:22] <ochosi> well i guess my/the idea was to only let the monitor suspend, but wha'eve
[13:22] <ochosi> r
[13:23] <GridCube> :) good moring people
[13:23] <smartboyhw> Hi GridCube, ochosi
[13:23] <ochosi> ahoi GridCube
[13:23] <mips1911> hi
[13:23] <bluesabre> good morning!
[13:23] <GridCube> what are we pondering today?
[13:23] <ochosi> oh, ahoi bluesabre :)
[13:23] <smartboyhw> I heard that due to test failures knome is not gonna release Beta 1.
[13:24] <GridCube> i heard there was a respin of beta 1
[13:24] <bluesabre> i heard knome was going to sponsor all of us for uds
 skaet, i'm thinking that xubuntu will skip beta 1 looking at all the fails.
[13:24] <bluesabre> (except not really)
[13:24] <ochosi> bluesabre: funny, i heard the same :}
[13:25] <smartboyhw> bluesabre: You're kidding:)
[13:25] <bluesabre> sadly, yes smartboyhw
[13:25] <smartboyhw> Well
[13:25] <ochosi> bluesabre: if you come, i'll come as well :]
[13:26] <bluesabre> Let me ask my bank account
[13:26] <bluesabre> well, that was a quick "no"
[13:26] <smartboyhw> bluesabre: LOL
[13:26] <bluesabre> :D
[13:26] <ochosi> hehe
[13:26] <ochosi> bluesabre: did you check the flights?
[13:26] <ochosi> (just out of curiosity)
[13:26] <bluesabre> Nope.  Haven't checked
[13:27] <bluesabre> But it's very likely they're outside of my present budget
[13:29] <mips1911> Why does xubuntu use the droid sans fonts instead of ubuntu fonts?
[13:30] <ochosi> mips1911: why not?
[13:31] <ochosi> (because it's prettier)
[13:31] <bluesabre> lol
[13:31] <bluesabre> 13.04 --> Roboto font
[13:31] <bluesabre> ;)
[13:31] <smartboyhw> ;0
[13:31] <ochosi> heh
[13:31] <bluesabre> Actually, I like Droid Sans better than Roboto
[13:31] <ochosi> yeah, it's not so bad, but i also prefer droid as UI font
[13:33] <bluesabre> Anybody else interested in looking at indicator-messages?
[13:33] <bluesabre> :D
[13:33] <GridCube> i always change it to ubuntus font :P
[13:33] <smartboyhw> GridCube: SAME
[13:34] <GridCube> i have two that pop up everyday, one says "you have 400 updates" and other one says "there was a faliure in a previous session", are those interesting indicator-messages? :P
[13:35] <ochosi> bluesabre: tbh i already looked at the source and i feel very, very lost with it
[13:35] <bluesabre> yes, but there is one that is much more interesting ;)
[13:35] <ochosi> bluesabre: ubiquity's scripts are a piece of cake in comparison
[13:35] <bluesabre> It would be quicker to create a gtk3 panel
[13:36] <ochosi> not sure
[13:36] <ochosi> at least not incl. all the plugins we need
[13:36] <elfy> I ignore anything that says something has failed unless it is in big bold red letters
[13:37] <bluesabre> As far as I can tell, to use the GtkActionGroup, I basically need to extend GtkWidget
[13:37] <bluesabre> which means we'd probably ship a custom gtk
[13:37] <bluesabre> it seems crazy
[13:37] <elfy> I'd like the thing that used to sit in notifications back again - used that all the time
[13:37] <ochosi> wow, that's a bit over-the-top for a single indicator
[13:37] <GridCube> i ignore it because its tehre every single time saying blueman has failed, when in fact i dont have any bluethoot device
[13:38] <bluesabre> Are the other indicators restored?
[13:38] <ochosi> GridCube: you not having a bluetooth device is probably why it fails :D
[13:38] <ochosi> bluesabre: not sure, mr_pouit was a bit silent about that the last few days
[13:38] <elfy> it'd probably tell em that too GridCube if I'd left it in startup
[13:42] <bluesabre> GridCube: sudo apt-get autoremove bluez
[13:42] <bluesabre> that's my method
[13:43]  * bluesabre would like to have bluetooth in his next laptop
[13:43] <smartboyhw> bluesabre: Sure make it 4.0 or 5.0
[13:43] <ochosi> bluesabre: from when is your laptop? my gf's laptop is 6(!) years old and has bluetooth
[13:44] <bluesabre> 2009/2010
[13:44] <GridCube> bluesabre, :P that would help, but then if i wanted to use my bluethoot thingy to sync my cellphone i cant, but i only use that like never
[13:44] <smartboyhw> bluesabre: How much does your notebook cost?
[13:44] <bluesabre> I went to a college where you're given a laptop, so they customized it to have what the college needed
[13:44] <ochosi> i see
[13:45] <bluesabre> so no bluetooth, no backlit keyboard, etc
[13:45] <smartboyhw> bluesabre: Oh OK
[13:45] <bluesabre> but it runs xubuntu like a champ
[13:45] <bluesabre> :D
[13:46] <smartboyhw> ;D
[13:46] <GridCube> as my netbook does,
[13:47] <GridCube> for some reason the case for my netbook has a precut hole that says "GPS" i dont know why because it doesnt have one, but i think that theres another version that do have gps
[13:47] <smartboyhw> HAHAHA
[13:49] <GridCube> oh boy, i though this was ot, sorry for derailing people
[13:49] <elfy> :p
[13:49]  * GridCube hides in shame
[13:50] <smartboyhw> ;P
[13:58] <ochosi> btw, what do you guys think of the original "wingpanel"-idea? (not sure everyone is familiar with it)
[13:59]  * elfy isn't
[13:59] <ochosi> reference: http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/12/wingpanel-elementarys-slick-new-space-saving-panel
[13:59] <ochosi> we could easily do the same with xfce-panel in 4.10
[14:00] <elfy> mmm
[14:00] <bluesabre> It seemed like a good idea, and worked well when that wingpanel worked well
[14:00] <ochosi> anyway, i'm testing it atm
[14:00] <smartboyhw> !?
[14:00] <elfy> not sure if that wouldn't freak me out a bit
[14:00] <ochosi> elfy: to freak ppl out less, we could call it a new "maximize-mode"
[14:01] <elfy> lol
[14:01] <smartboyhw> Yeah
[14:01] <ochosi> ideally the xfce-panel would get intelli-hide mode
[14:01] <elfy> you forget that I make my panel 20 pixels and hide it at the bottom
[14:01] <ochosi> then we could make the rest, that is not "wingpanel-style" autohide when a window is maximized
[14:01] <ochosi> elfy: i can't forget something i don't know
[14:02] <elfy> :p
[14:03] <bluesabre> the panel looks good at 26px
[14:03] <bluesabre> :D
[14:03] <ochosi> yeah, currently we're still at 24, but i'm really considering 26 for the next release
[14:03] <pnarciso> have a reduced panel like that implies that a more advanced docking app is used, to show what apps are open
[14:03] <elfy> ochosi: so what does it actually do - make notifications bigger
[14:04] <ochosi> elfy: what does what?
[14:04] <elfy> this wingpanel type affair
[14:05] <ochosi> it makes maximized windows use all available screen estate
[14:05] <ochosi> because the notification panel overlays the window-border
[14:05] <ochosi> and all other panels hide
[14:05] <elfy> oh - I see that now
[14:06] <ochosi> that at least is the rationale
[14:06] <ochosi> but as pnarciso pointed out, it implies a dock or an xfce-panel that can intellihide
[14:06] <bluesabre> yeah
[14:06] <bluesabre> and we'd have to tweak xfce4-notify
[14:06] <ochosi> why?
[14:06] <ochosi> or: how? :)
[14:06] <bluesabre> since I think it would hide under the wingpanel if there's no space reserved at the top
[14:07] <bluesabre> possibly
[14:07] <elfy> ochosi: kind of like the don't reserve space on borders option ?
[14:07] <bluesabre> haven't actually checked
[14:07] <ochosi> bluesabre: no, notifications still work
[14:07] <bluesabre> cool
[14:07] <ochosi> elfy: not "kind of like", but yes, that option :)
[14:07]  * bluesabre stops blurting out answers in class
[14:08] <elfy> ok - now I understnad better - I like that idea :)
[14:08] <smartboyhw> bluesabre: Who would ever blurt out answers in class???:O
[14:08] <bluesabre> lol
[14:08] <bluesabre> I've moved my panel and notifications to the bottom, since I was always clicking on notifications when trying to click a different tab
[14:09] <bluesabre> But that's just me :P
[14:09] <elfy> mine's at the bottom on the right of the lefthand monitor - so it is 'sort' of midpoint
[14:09] <GridCube> yeah, i never understood the idea of the panel on top
[14:10] <elfy> +1
[14:10] <ochosi> tbh i think it doesn' matter where a panel is, top or bottom are both conventions that ppl get used to
[14:10] <bluesabre> yeah
[14:10] <ochosi> it's just the classical "windows versus mac" paradigm...
[14:11] <bluesabre> Let's do unity next, leave the panel at the top and put the launcher dock on the left
[14:11] <GridCube> yep, in my netbook i placed them on the sides, because its widescreen and that takes less verticall space
[14:11] <bluesabre> :P
[14:11] <ochosi> also: gnome2 (and xfce upstream) have the panel at the top (i know, gnome2 had two panels, but much of what we have there now was on the top one)
[14:11] <bluesabre> true
[14:11] <ochosi> yeah, we could do a unity-like layout
[14:11] <ochosi> if we get a good patch for dock-functionality into the paenl
[14:11] <GridCube> :D
[14:11] <ochosi> panel
[14:12] <ochosi> that would be desirable anyway
[14:12] <elfy> so I've got to start looking at kde now ... :p
[14:12] <ochosi> but someone with some bamf skills would have to do it (although bamf is probably not the hardest part of it)
[14:12] <bluesabre> haha
[14:13] <ochosi> elfy: yeah, you're joking, but there are really users that start to flame and be really pissed off because of the default panel config (a different config is approx. 2 clicks away)
[14:13] <pnarciso> mint aproach on xfce put the notification bar on the bottom
[14:13] <GridCube> http://imagebin.org/227416
[14:14] <ochosi> GridCube: i was using the same for a long time (well, without the second panel on the right)
[14:14] <ochosi> GridCube: only downside is clock and date...
[14:14] <elfy> ochosi: I know :)
[14:14] <ochosi> pnarciso: what notification bar?
[14:14] <pnarciso> I meant xfce panel
[14:15] <bluesabre> Everything
[14:15] <ochosi> ah ok
[14:15] <bluesabre> kinda like this
[14:15] <ochosi> like all versions of windows after win3.1
[14:15] <bluesabre> http://imagebin.org/227417
[14:15] <bluesabre> yeah, basically
[14:15] <bluesabre> But you know, there was something magical about win3.1 ;)
[14:16] <ochosi> the good thing about this is that you can do the "click-close" mouse action (it's almost a gesture!)
[14:16] <ochosi> you mean "magical" because everything happened so counter-intuitively? :]
[14:16] <bluesabre> more or less
[14:17] <bluesabre> in fact, compaq had their own setup that involved the use of notebooks for everything
[14:17] <bluesabre> It was...
[14:17] <bluesabre> wrong
[14:17] <ochosi> yeah
[14:17] <ochosi> that reminds me of this: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/frankbooth/lightdm-gtk-greeter
[14:17] <ochosi> lubuntu asked us whether we wanna re-design the login-greeter with tehm
[14:17] <GridCube> yeah bluesabre thats how my desktop is like, except i have a panel acting as a dock on top
[14:18] <bluesabre> heh
[14:18] <bluesabre> ochosi: Please don't do that design
[14:18] <elfy> bluesabre: mine is similar http://imagebin.org/227419
[14:18] <ochosi> bluesabre: i won't. but the "terrible use of notebooks" reminded me of that
[14:18] <bluesabre> lol
[14:19] <smartboyhw> lol
[14:19] <ochosi> anyway, if any of you feel like participating in the discussions of how the login-screen should look, i set up a xubuntu-internal spec-page as well: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/R/LightDM-Greeter
[14:19] <ochosi> it's still in a very raw stage, haven't had much time
[14:20] <ochosi> but it's for R, so there's still quite a bit of time
[14:20] <smartboyhw> You know what? That looks like the Metro UI used in Windows 8
[14:20] <bluesabre> ooh shiny
[14:21] <ochosi> smartboyhw: not really. furthermore it's just a login-screen
[14:21] <smartboyhw> Hahaha
[14:21] <ochosi> smartboyhw: explain how it is even remotely similar to this: http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2011/06/6-1-11-metro.jpg
[14:21] <bluesabre> rectangle
[14:22] <ochosi> wait... you're right!! - both designs use rectangles!
[14:22] <bluesabre> Apple has sued for less
[14:22] <smartboyhw> yES:)
[14:22] <bluesabre> ;)
[14:22] <elfy> I want a circle
[14:22] <elfy> or oval
[14:22] <ochosi> anyway, basically that debian-proposal should be possible
[14:22] <elfy> looks nice
[14:22] <ochosi> at least if we get our hands dirty with the code a bit
[14:22] <bluesabre> Yeah, sounds like an interesting possibility
[14:22] <ochosi> i like that there is no extra panel
[14:22] <bluesabre> Though, I really like the gtk-greeter with the 12.10 theme
[14:23] <ochosi> i don't think it's needed
[14:23] <ochosi> in the 12.10 theme it's basically empty
[14:23] <ochosi> just two small menus...
[14:23] <pnarciso> a more advanced lightdm greeter would add a nice touch do xubuntu, but in the end of the day, it's just another login manager, and single users won't see them much
[14:23] <bluesabre> yeah
[14:23] <ochosi> pnarciso: well, it would also be used as a lockscreen
[14:24] <bluesabre> This discussion, while offtopic, is still remotely mostly -devel related... congrats us!
[14:25] <ochosi> yeah, walking the thin line...
[14:25] <bluesabre> It's ok, knome doesn't appear to be around ;)
[14:25] <smartboyhw> HAHAHA
[14:26] <smartboyhw> It IS dev related, unless you wanna start a #lightdm-gtk-greeter channel :)
[14:26] <bluesabre> Anything is better than working on indicator-messages-gtk2 ;)
[14:26] <bluesabre> I just don't know what to do anymore
[14:26] <bluesabre> lol
[14:27] <pnarciso> For now fixing the indicator-messages should be top priority :)
[14:27] <bluesabre> Oh it is, I'm just still stuck
[14:28] <pnarciso> I only I knew anything about programming
[14:28] <pnarciso> If I only knew anything about programming
[14:28]  * elfy too pnarciso
[14:29] <bluesabre> If only the ayatana devs didn't kill gtk2 support...
[14:29] <pnarciso> And from what I've read, XFCE devs wil stick to gtk2 for 4.12
[14:30] <ochosi> yup
[14:30]  * ochosi thinks it's time for a coffee
[14:30] <bluesabre> Yeah, but there's the possibility of a gtk3 panel at least for 4.12
[14:30] <ochosi> ttyl
[14:30] <bluesabre> seeya ochosi
[14:38] <pnarciso> there's only a month and a half for the release of 12.10, the decision must be made in releasing it in the current state or postponing.
[14:39] <mips1911> postponing would be better
[14:39] <mips1911> but that's just my opinion
[14:40] <pnarciso> I would give more time for fixing the regressions and polish some functionality
[14:59] <ochosi> pnarciso: release what in what state?
[14:59] <ochosi> indicator-messages or the whole thing?
[14:59] <pnarciso> indicator-messages
[15:00] <ochosi> ah right
[15:01] <ochosi> well shipping it later would mean it's not in the default panel config
[15:01] <ochosi> so most ppl wouldn't even notice if we got it working again later
[15:01] <mr_pouit> (it's indicators, they're added automatically as long as they're not blacklisted in xfce4-indicator-plugin)
[15:03] <pnarciso> also the duplicate devices on thunar and desktop are also a problem
[15:04] <ochosi> mr_pouit: yes, but it wouldn't get installed by default
[15:05] <pnarciso> they are not installed in the latest build
[15:05] <pnarciso> but if they were, and plugins were later fixed, wouldn't they show up
[16:13] <elfy> knome: I checked a whole bunch of pages - sent list to the list
[16:15] <pleia2> knome: I never got a reply on ubuntu-doc (big surprise) but someone followed up directly with a doc team member and we can just submit MPs
[16:16] <elfy> pleia2: I see you get notification of changes - I tried to tick the trivial change box if it was just a word or something - but it still said you were getting them
[16:17] <pleia2> elfy: yeah, I subscribe to trivial as well (have to, the spam bots only do trivial changes)
[16:17] <elfy> :(
[16:17] <pleia2> sneaky bots
[16:18] <elfy> ohe yea - channel is logged ... sneaky bots
[16:18] <elfy> I'll tell you what I really think in -ooftopic :p
[16:19] <elfy> I copied the wiki front page to a m/l and made notes against it as to what I did today
[16:19] <elfy> thought a proper list people can note against on m/l would be a useful idea
[16:19] <pleia2> yeah :)
[16:21]  * elfy has headache now
[16:21] <pleia2> aww
[16:21] <elfy> copying the list out did show me that we are really quite close now :)
[16:42] <bluesabre> I've got my ubuntu-membership meeting today at 22:00 UTC :D  Excited!
[16:43] <elfy> woot
[16:43] <elfy> where's your wiki then bluesabre
[16:43] <bluesabre> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SeanDavis
[16:49] <bluesabre> Thanks for the testimonial elfy!
[16:49] <elfy> well I wrote something bluesabre - if it wasn't really late I'd pop along for moral support too
[16:49] <elfy> welcome
[16:50] <elfy> though I might anyway :p
[16:51] <bluesabre> :D
[17:27] <mips1911> Guys quick question, is fluendo included on the 12.04 livecd as people say they can play mp3s from the livecd?
[17:33] <holstein> mips1911: i would just fire one up and check...
[17:35] <mips1911> holstein, i dont have one
[18:17] <mips1911> holstein, I tested with 12.04 lubuntu cd and I could play mp3 with it.
[18:17] <holstein> mips1911: cool! id say its onboard then
[18:18] <mips1911> holstein, it also played flac & ogg but no video
[18:26] <holstein> mips1911: what kind of video? ogg vids should play
[18:27] <mips1911> holstein, I don't have any ogg videos to test with but it should work. i could only test with avi, mkv,mpeg,flv
[18:29] <holstein> ogg should work.. the others are not supported by the free fluendo or anything that can be shipped
[18:30] <mips1911> understood
[18:31] <mips1911> is there a reason I'm not seeing any indicator applets on my panel in 12.10, no volume or network manager etc
[18:32] <elfy> I still see network - but no others - broken atm I believe
[18:33] <mips1911> elfy, I'm not even sure I installed it all correctly seeing I did a netinstall followed by manually adding packages
[18:39] <elfy> mine has been an upgraded one - they broke a week or so ago
[18:43] <elfy> mips1911: if it's any use to you - these are the indicator packages I have http://imagebin.org/227447
[18:44] <mips1911> thanks elfy, that would indeed come in handy for me to comapre with
[18:44] <elfy> :)
[18:49] <mips1911> ok made sure mine are the same
[18:50] <elfy> and you have indicator plugin there - and maybe notification area in panel
[18:53] <mips1911> can't find a notification item to add to the panel
[18:53] <mips1911> ah, it's greyed out and I cant select it to add to the panel
[18:54] <elfy> that'll be the one then I suspect - pretty sure that si what they were talking about in here earlier
[18:54] <elfy> bluesabre is the one that knows I think
[18:54] <mips1911> ok so that is what they were talking about. did not sound like it was gonna be fixed before release date
[18:55] <bluesabre> indicator-messages is broken
[18:55] <bluesabre> mr_pouit has been working on the other indicators
[18:55] <elfy> just checking with someone who can be positive bluesabre :)
[18:55] <bluesabre> Sure thing :D
[18:56] <mips1911> that means I can go watch some mindless tv now as there is nothing more for me to fix :)
[18:56] <elfy> :)
[18:58] <mips1911> bbl
[18:58] <elfy> well I'm off now - cya
[18:58] <mips1911> bye
[20:47] <knome> plammh, sd was on this channel and told he could help
[20:47] <knome> pleia2 too
[20:48] <pleia2> with?
[20:48] <knome> docs
[20:48] <pleia2> ah
[20:48] <knome> pleia2, i'll be back in about 2-3 hours
[20:48] <knome> now, bbl
[20:55] <ochosi> hi everyone
[21:00] <pnarciso> hey
[21:10] <bluesabre> hi ochosi!
[21:10] <ochosi> hey sean :)
[21:10] <bluesabre> I have my membership meeting today at #ubuntu-meeting (in 50 minutes I think)
[21:10] <bluesabre> :D
[21:10] <ochosi> oooh
[21:11] <bluesabre> Anyways, what
[21:11] <bluesabre> 's up?
[21:11] <ochosi> i never managed to do it :)
[21:11]  * ochosi is a lazy bastard
[21:11] <bluesabre> lol
[21:11] <bluesabre> So am I
[21:11] <ochosi> doesn't seem that way
[21:11] <ochosi> you're pretty good at hiding it then!
[21:11] <bluesabre> knome told me too when he added me to xubuntu-team
[21:11] <bluesabre> so, here I go
[21:11] <bluesabre> lol
[21:12] <ochosi> yup, it makes sense
[21:12] <ochosi> i should've done it a long time ago
[21:12] <Unit193> I'm lazy too, I went for it...
[21:12] <ochosi> but since i haven't for so long, i feel even more reluctant to do it now
[21:12] <bluesabre> haha
[21:12] <bluesabre> brb
[21:13] <ochosi> careless these folks nowadays, they leave shortly before their membership meeting
[21:14] <ochosi> it's slightly OT, but do any of you do incremental backups with hardlinks?
[21:18] <ochosi> hey satya
[21:19] <bluesabre> I am lazy.  Spent a good portion of last week playing video games :D
[21:19] <ochosi> heh
[21:19] <bluesabre> I spent a good portion of today playing solitaire
[21:19] <ochosi> which ones?
[21:19] <ochosi> lol
[21:19] <bluesabre> Kingdom Hearts 2 primarily
[21:19] <bluesabre> Finally got around to beating it
[21:19] <ochosi> never heard of it i think
[21:20] <ochosi> is it a pc game or console?
[21:20] <bluesabre> Final Fantasy + Disney in a run-around hack-n-slash
[21:20] <bluesabre> Tons of fun
[21:20] <bluesabre> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_Hearts_II
[21:20] <bluesabre> console
[21:20] <bluesabre> ps2
[21:21] <ochosi> wow, that looks like it's fun
[21:25] <ochosi> bluesabre: btw, a small idea for parole
[21:26] <bluesabre> ok
[21:26] <ochosi> although i'm not sure it's good or necessary, but anyway
[21:27] <ochosi> we could update the menuitems of lang and subs to say something like "Subtitles (Japanese)" or "Language (English)"
[21:27] <ochosi> i mean so that you wouldn't have to look in the submenu
[21:28] <bluesabre> Yeah, they should do that automatically based on what they're embedded as.  But it seems like a lot of software embeds as just en, jp.  We'd have to create a map for that
[21:28] <ochosi> yeah, although the renaming wasn't the main point of the idea
[21:28] <ochosi> but yeah, let's add that to the roadmap
[21:28] <bluesabre> ok
[21:29] <ochosi> in fact i had forgotten about that again (the odd lang names)
[21:30] <ochosi> done
[21:55] <ochosi> bluesabre: we need to find a new fun project for you, the message indicator is just pulling you down too much :)
[21:55] <bluesabre> lol
[21:55] <bluesabre> Yeah, it's not much fun, makes me not want to work on anything
[21:55] <bluesabre> So I look at documentation and stuff instead
[21:55] <bluesabre> play some video games
[21:55] <bluesabre> ...
[21:56] <bluesabre> But, I've made some progress on my wife's website, which she appreciates
[21:56] <bluesabre> :D
[21:56] <ochosi> heh
[21:56] <bluesabre> Updating my resume now
[21:57] <ochosi> well for now i'd think that the gtk-greeter would be a cool project
[21:57] <ochosi> mostly UI and nothing too harsh i think
[21:57] <bluesabre> Yeah, I think so too
[21:57] <ochosi> i can make new mockups based on the current 12.10 greeter integrating some of the stuff that's in the debian mockup
[21:57] <bluesabre> Do we want to go for that flashy "metro-like" interface
[21:57] <bluesabre> ?
[21:58] <bluesabre> ;)
[21:58] <ochosi> hehe
[21:58] <ochosi> well, it won't be exactly like that
[21:58] <ochosi> i just liked the layout, that's all
[21:58] <ochosi> e.g. having the shutdown-button where it is in that loginbox
[21:58] <bluesabre> It seems like a good starting point though
[21:58] <ochosi> yeah
[21:59] <ochosi> and i guess the most important part is making it lock-screen-able
[21:59] <bluesabre> What all goes into that?
[22:00] <ochosi> good question, mr_pouit would know
[22:03] <ochosi> btw, since you mentioned thunderbird's wrong icon in messaging-menu: http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-6P1pdvOCnTQ/UEeC_c9tw9I/AAAAAAAAJ8k/9hEO_62aBVg/s1600/ubuntu12.10-messaging-menu.png
[22:03] <ochosi> doesn't look like it here (supposedly that's ubuntu beta1)
[22:04] <bluesabre> heh
[22:04] <bluesabre> we have a monochrome mail icon in our messaging menu
[22:04] <bluesabre> maybe
[22:04] <ochosi> that just means we'd have to drop one from elementary-xfce-dark
[22:05] <bluesabre> yeah
[22:08] <ochosi> think i'll watch a movie now, it's slowly getting late anyway and i don't feel like there's something useful for me to do right now
[22:09] <bluesabre> have a good night ochosi
[22:09] <ochosi> thanks
[22:09] <ochosi> are you a member already?
[22:09] <ochosi> or is that still taking place
[22:09] <bluesabre> lol
[22:09] <bluesabre> They haven't started yet
[22:10] <ochosi> oh ok
[22:10] <ochosi> good luck then :)
[22:10] <bluesabre> thanks!
[22:10] <ochosi> ttyl
[22:12]  * micahg waves to bluesabre
[22:12] <bluesabre> hey micahg
[22:48] <bluesabre> Well, I'll get my fancy ubuntu hat next time :D
[22:48] <pleia2> aww
[22:49] <pleia2> yeah, with more time you'll be a shoe-in :)
[22:49] <bluesabre> That's what I'm hoping for.
[22:50] <bluesabre> Anyways, I've been hanging out at the office for too long.  Have a good day/night everyone!
[23:05] <Unit193> Awwwh, he got rejected?
[23:06] <knome> huh? :P
[23:06] <knome> i'm back
[23:06] <micahg> only for lack of sustained contribution, he's great though :)
[23:06] <knome> he is
[23:06] <micahg> and he'll be a shoe in in a few months
[23:06] <Unit193> Yeah, he does seem good.
[23:07]  * micahg gets to bug him about upload rights after that :)
[23:07] <knome> micahg, great
[23:08] <knome> micahg, btw...
[23:08] <knome> micahg, did you already look at updated http://xubuntu.org/contribute/development/ ?
[23:09] <micahg> no :)
[23:11] <knome> micahg, ok, if you could go through it and correct any failures, and maybe update it with more precise data on the packageset-upload-permissions and other points of interest, that would be great
[23:11] <micahg> ok
[23:12] <knome> so, i met this guy at the local univ of applied sciences
[23:13] <knome> he's teaching linux there, and here's the brief outcome of our 2 hour meet: http://terokarvinen.com/2012/working-with-xubuntu-project
[23:13] <knome> what we basically almost settled upon is:
[23:14] <knome> they are willing to test beta 2 installing, while they are installing their systems for the linux course.
[23:14] <knome> this means up to 60 tests for beta 2.
[23:14] <knome> if we can get it to any semi-usable state, that is
[23:15] <pnarciso> my xubuntu install is getting a LOT of updates today
[23:15] <knome> micahg, i also got some ideas on dropping the ISO sie.
[23:15] <knome> +z
[23:16] <pnarciso> ubuntu droped it
[23:16] <knome> what "it" ?
[23:17] <pnarciso> iso size
[23:17] <pnarciso> it's now 800
[23:17] <knome> aha
[23:17] <knome> what's the xubuntu iso size then?
[23:18] <knome> did it affect that, or is it only the ubuntu iso
[23:20] <pnarciso> in fact it's not 800 but 757
[23:20] <knome> yes, i know that.
[23:21] <pnarciso> exactly the same as xubuntu
[23:22] <pnarciso> I've read that they wil drop the cd size restriction
[23:23] <knome> they will, but we are not willing to
[23:23] <knome> we will want to fit on a CD
[23:23] <knome> you got to realize that ubuntu and xubuntu decision making regarding these issues are completely different things
[23:23] <Unit193> Heh, LoCo guy was wondering why Xubuntu didn't have3 a B1.
[23:24] <knome> micahg, http://typewith.me/p/x-q-imagesize
[23:24] <knome> micahg, those are comments from the guy i met today
[23:24] <pnarciso> Yeah I know that this distro is targeted to older pc's
[23:25] <pleia2> it's not really
[23:25] <knome> pnarciso, you should probably read the strategy document
[23:25] <knome> pnarciso, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/StrategyDocument
[23:25] <knome> pnarciso, read that. and don't whine it being too long. it's almost half the length of the old one.
[23:26] <pleia2> Unit193: "It wasn't ready" :)
[23:26] <knome> yeah
[23:26] <knome> i can promise better stability with a3 .P
[23:27] <Unit193> pleia2: Just making a note, nice to know someone keeps an eye out.  (Also the person wanting apt-offline)
[23:29] <knome> micahg, humanity-icon-theme is 2.8MB, feel free to drop
[23:29] <micahg> knome: ok
[23:30] <knome> huh
[23:31] <knome> humanity is 18M installed
[23:31] <micahg> knome: won't help, gnome-icon-theme pulls it in
[23:31] <knome> micahg, can't we blacklist?
[23:32] <micahg> preferably not (and it doesn't work right anyways)
[23:32] <knome> aha
[23:32] <knome> so we're stuck with all this... meh
[23:32] <micahg> software-center depends on it as well for some strange reason
[23:32] <knome> duhh
[23:33] <knome> idiocy pulling that much worth of icon themes
[23:33] <pnarciso> xubuntu wallpapers include precise ones, can't they be removed
[23:35] <micahg> I can't dig more tonight, maybe I'll have a look on Sunday
[23:35] <knome> ok, any idea of the timeframe?
[23:36] <micahg> knome: what time is good for you?  I might be around sometime in the range of 15:00-18:00 UTC
[23:37] <knome> micahg, that's fine