[02:27] <RAOF> Gah!  Is it really too much to ask for unity-window-decorator to not crash almost every time I close a window?
[05:19] <didrocks> good morning
[05:22] <rickspencer3> good morning didrocks
[05:22] <didrocks> hey rickspencer3!
[05:24] <rickspencer3> didrocks, I expected to see jasoncwarner_, robertancel, TheMuso and the rest of the Australian contingent here
[05:24] <TheMuso> rickspencer3: I'm here, just working quietly away.
[05:24] <didrocks> rickspencer3: they should, apart from robert who is on vacation :)
[05:24] <RAOF> Again?
[05:24] <rickspencer3> hiya TheMuso
[05:24] <rickspencer3> hiya RAOF
[05:24] <rickspencer3> again?
[05:25] <RAOF> Maybe I'm mistaking the planning of a holiday in Paris for an *actual* holiday in Paris :)
[05:25] <rickspencer3> I have 5,631 unread emails this morning ;)
[05:25] <didrocks> RAOF: He took 2 weeks and half from the last release AFAIK :)
[05:25] <TheMuso> rickspencer3: You have my sympathies.
[05:25] <didrocks> rickspencer3: urgh, good luck!
[05:25] <RAOF> It seems that spamassassin has been helpfully reducing the number of emails I get :/
[05:25] <rickspencer3> cntrl-A, delete, I guess :/
[05:27] <rickspencer3> RAOF, you are coming to France
[05:27] <rickspencer3> ?
[05:27] <RAOF> rickspencer3: No, but Robert was.
[05:27] <rickspencer3> ah
[05:28]  * rickspencer3 sips coffee
[05:30]  * didrocks hopes that rickspencer3 now has a french hat and a baguette :)
[05:30] <RAOF> didrocks: Do you mean a beret?
[05:30] <RAOF> And I'd be hoping for croissant :)
[05:30] <didrocks> RAOF: yeah, not sure the word was famous in enlighs :)
[05:31] <rickspencer3> indeed, I have a whole new wardrobe, consisting of black and white horizontally striped shirts
[05:31] <rickspencer3> along with a a beret, of course
[05:34] <didrocks> heh :)
[05:34] <RAOF> didrocks: While on the subject of croissants (or maybe not) - I see you've been tasked with the libwayland MIR.  Any ETA on that? :)
[05:34] <didrocks> RAOF: not looking before tomorrow, there is a compiz/unity release and I got assigned 7 MIRs the same day…
[05:35]  * didrocks thinks we need to be more than 3 in the MIR team…
[05:35] <RAOF> That's what I call a barrel of fun!
[05:35] <didrocks> totally :)
[05:41] <micahg> didrocks: I proposed a merge for nux to transition to libglew1.6, the package w/rebuild without the change for libglew1.6 as well, idk if you want to do that for alpha3 or not
[05:42] <didrocks> micahg: did you test it? last time we tried it, it was a total fail on intel
[05:42] <micahg> orly? I haven't actually tried the packages, no
[05:43] <didrocks> micahg: so please try it before sending the merge proposal :)
[05:43] <didrocks> we stay on previous on purpose for now
[05:43] <micahg> ah, well, the dev package was NBS
[05:44] <didrocks> micahg: urgh? the previous one has been removed? :/
[05:44] <micahg> I did that earlier this evening
[05:44] <micahg> it was causing FTBFS for other packages
[05:44] <didrocks> that will be tricky then. Anyway, nothing before alpha3. There should be already an incoming compiz/unity, that's risky enough :)
[05:45] <micahg> didrocks: k, sorry, I realized afterwards that nux was affected, but if you need it, I would suggest uploading a glew1.5 source temporarily
[05:45] <didrocks> micahg: indeed, let me see who revert the other glew
[05:47] <didrocks> micahg: ok, apparently, there is a tiny chance it works
[05:47] <didrocks> micahg: can you please try to build your merge proposal and run it?
[05:47] <didrocks> that's what you are supposed to do for a merge proposal :)
[05:47] <micahg> yeah, what do I need to run (I have the packages already)
[05:48] <didrocks> micahg: you have made the merge proposal against upstream right?
[05:48]  * micahg thought building was a requirement, not running
[05:48] <micahg> didrocks: against the desktop bzr brach
[05:49] <didrocks> micahg: so, just bzr bd then
[05:49] <micahg> no, I built the package already, what do I need to run to test it :)
[05:50] <didrocks> so just install the packages, I don't get the "what do I need to run"  :)
[05:50] <didrocks> o
[05:50] <didrocks> oh
[05:50] <didrocks> ok, just run "unity"
[05:50] <didrocks> (nux is used by unity)
[05:50]  * micahg has to install that first then :)
[05:52] <micahg> is an intel mobile express gm45 enough to test on?
[05:53] <didrocks> micahg: yeah, should be good
[05:53] <didrocks> it's not NBS AFAIK, it's still provided btw?
[05:54] <micahg> the old binary was NBS, it's provided as an upgrade path to 1.6
[05:54] <micahg> I commented on that in my merge proposal as well
[05:54] <didrocks> indeed, both -dev and the binary, so yeah, will prefer doing that after alpha3, but keep testing it to ensure, please :)
[06:04] <micahg> well, unity's better than it was when I tried it last on this machine
[06:05]  * micahg has to build the arch all packages to upgrade
[06:05] <didrocks> micahg: you have multiarched packages installed there?
[06:06] <micahg> I don't think so
[06:06] <micahg> I'm missing the common packages since I built in sbuild
[06:06] <micahg> on amd64 that is
[06:06] <didrocks> indeed
[06:07]  * didrocks just made an upload to win back 4 MB on the CD :)
[06:07] <RAOF> micahg: $build_arch_all = 1; in .sbuildrc.  Because I'm lazy ;)
[06:07] <micahg> RAOF: yeah, but then it's not as close to production as possible
[06:08] <RAOF> True.  That matters rarely enough that I
[06:08] <RAOF> I'm happy to diverge there until I hit a crazy build error on the buildds.
[06:18] <micahg> didrocks: should we remove the gir1.2-json-glib-1.0 binary so couchdb-glib can build, or change the control file to the new binary name (which provides the old one)
[06:20] <didrocks> micahg: where did the glib binaries moved, (glib is more something that seb128 is tracking)
[06:21] <didrocks> (take care that it's a huge transition, there are some quite rdepends on this package)
[06:21] <micahg> gir1.2-json-glib-1.0 was renamed to gir1.2-json-1.0, but provides the old binary, the provides can't work with the actual old binary in the archive though
[06:23] <micahg> maybe if you can mention it to him when he comes on, I will hopefully go to sleep soon :)
[06:23] <didrocks> micahg: sure, any news on the nux change?
[06:23] <micahg> packages built, installing now
[06:24] <didrocks> great :)
[06:24] <micahg> I got artifacts with the libglew1.5 version, I'll see if this one is any better
[06:25] <micahg> yeah, it's still broke :(
[06:26] <didrocks> micahg: did you report them? Apart from that, the result seems positive?
[06:27] <micahg> well, it's not a pure system, so I'm not sure if it's worth reporting
[06:28] <didrocks> micahg: but at least, you have an interface, so it seems that the previous workarounded issue is fixed. Nice! Thanks :)
[06:28] <didrocks> will push for next nux release
[06:28] <micahg> yeah, with the glew1.6 packages, the panel and dock don't work
[06:28] <didrocks> ah?
[06:28] <micahg> with the 1.5 packages I have the interface
[06:28] <micahg> which is better than it was when I tried it last
[06:29] <didrocks> micahg: rejected the MR for now then. Will still ping jay so that we can have a fix post feature freeze
[06:30] <micahg> didrocks: k, if you're going to rebuild nux before then, you'll need to upload a glew1.5 source package (I can do this now if you like)
[06:31] <didrocks> micahg: I don't get why the current provide doesn't work? I'll have a deeper look, need to work on something else right now
[06:31] <micahg> didrocks: provides just means that it will fulfill the old binary in depends, not that it's the same library
[06:32] <didrocks> micahg: indeed, but we already have that for quite some time already, what changed? I was able to build nux after 1.6.0-2
[06:32] <micahg> so if you rebuild with libglew1.5-dev in debian/control, it'll pull in libglew1.6-dev since libglew1.6-dev provides libglew1.5-dev
[06:33] <micahg> didrocks: I asked for libglew1.5-dev to be removed because it was NBS and anything using the virtual libglew-dev package was FTBFS
[06:36] <didrocks> hum, before an alpha seems suboptimal for those operations to happen
[06:36]  * didrocks checks, libglew1.5 should be NBS then
[06:36] <micahg> didrocks: yeah, that's my bad
[06:36] <jasoncwarner_> hey didrocks morning ....
[06:36] <didrocks> good morning jasoncwarner_, how was your week-end?
[06:36] <micahg> I've spent my evening making sure I didn't break anything else
[06:37] <jasoncwarner_> pretty good...last weekend home for two weeks :) so, tried to catch up on family stuff!
[06:37] <micahg> didrocks: it is NBS
[06:37] <didrocks> micahg: next time, check before, please and then, ask for removal once nothing is dep on it :)
[06:37] <didrocks> jasoncwarner_: oh nice!
[06:37] <jasoncwarner_> hey didrocks , do we expect to get anything from DX today for A3?
[06:37] <didrocks> jasoncwarner_: let's hope so, they are not online yet. At least, I hope for compiz
[06:37] <micahg> didrocks: I only asked for removal of the dev package since it was breaking others, but in hindsight, I would've just removed the virtual provides on the newer package until after A3
[06:38] <didrocks> but right now, I can't rebuild nux if there is a release, sigh
[06:38] <TheMuso> c
[06:38] <micahg> didrocks: so if you want, I"ll upload the old package as a new source and then you can push through new :)
[06:40] <didrocks> micahg: hum, I won't add confusion right now there. Let's see if I need it or not
[06:40] <didrocks> I'll ask for jay where we are with this glew 1.6
[06:49] <micahg> didrocks: k, again I'm sorry for the trouble, I have the source ready for upload if you need it, I'm going to sleep now, will check in in about ~6 hours
[06:49] <didrocks> micahg: ok thanks
[07:37] <huats> morning
[07:54] <didrocks> salut huats
[07:54] <huats> hello didrocks !
[08:28] <seb128> hey
[08:28] <mvo> hey seb128, good morning
[08:28] <seb128> hey mvo, how are you?
[08:29] <mvo> seb128: tired, really
[08:30] <seb128> mvo, that's fine it's friday... oh wait it's not, it's monday ;-)
[08:30] <didrocks> salut seb128, mvo!
[08:30] <seb128> lut didrocks
[08:31] <mvo> seb128: exactly!
[09:32] <chrisccoulson> hey didrocks. i just uploaded a new thunderbird version which should fix your issue
[09:32] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: hey awesome! I can't wait to test it :)
[09:32] <didrocks> thanks ;)
[09:32] <seb128> hey chrisccoulson
[09:33] <seb128> how are you?
[09:33] <chrisccoulson> hi seb128. i feel pretty rotten today (i've got a cold) :(
[09:33] <chrisccoulson> how are you?
[09:34] <seb128> oh, a cold :-(
[09:34] <seb128> get better
[09:34] <seb128> I'm fine thanks
[09:38] <chrisccoulson> seb128, do you know what tz stefw is in?
[09:41] <www> hi 2 all, can somebody help please. when I started gnome-shell -> http://paste.org.ru/?vm10gy | I have installed upower-glib :( [ libupower-glib-dev, libupower-glib1] and gir1.2-upowerglib-1.0 installed too
[09:49] <chrisccoulson> oh, no rodrigo today?
[09:50] <chrisccoulson> ah, there's a lot of people on vacation :)
[09:51] <seb128> yeah
[09:52] <seb128> chrisccoulson, dunno for stefw he's usually around in european afternoon
[09:52] <seb128> chrisccoulson, rodrigo is off until next week indeed
[09:57] <chrisccoulson> seb128, thanks
[09:57] <chrisccoulson> i'll have to wait until stefw is around then, i'm a bit stuck with gnome-keyring ;)
[09:57] <chrisccoulson> it still doesn't work properly :/
[09:57] <seb128> ok
[10:06] <RAOF> chrisccoulson: You know that gnome-keyring is broken because it doesn't have appropriate capabilities, right?
[10:06] <chrisccoulson> RAOF - broken in what way? the current version (3.1.1) works fine here, but I'm testing 3.1.4 before I upload it, and that is completely broken here
[10:08] <seb128> chrisccoulson, RAOF: the setcap issue is only for new installs it seems
[10:08] <RAOF> chrisccoulson: Hm.  Is that not known breakage?  I've run a clean install a couple of times in the past couple of days and I've needed to either setuid or setcap it.
[10:08] <seb128> chrisccoulson, RAOF: 3.1.4 is also supposed to work without capabilities
[10:08] <seb128> it will just not use a secure memory if it doesn't have the capabilities
[10:09] <seb128> micahg, hi, do you know who delete the glew1.5 binaries?
[10:09] <Amaranth> hrm, that's scary
[10:10] <Amaranth> oh, are we trying to upgrade to glew again?
[10:10] <seb128> we? trying?
[10:10] <seb128> we have glew1.6 for some weeks but unity still use 1.5
[10:10] <seb128> it has issues with 1.6
[10:11] <Amaranth> in natty when glew was updated nux blew up
[10:11] <seb128> yeah, same there
[10:11] <seb128> out of the fact that 1.6 has new binaries
[10:11] <seb128> so unity is still using 1.5 until being updated to use 1.6
[10:11] <seb128> which we delayed to do because the issue is still there
[10:12] <seb128> but seems like somebody decided to remove some of the glew1.5 binaries recently
[10:12] <chrisccoulson> ouch
[10:13] <chrisccoulson> so unity is no longer installable?
[10:13] <seb128> they didn't remove the lib
[10:13] <seb128> just the dev
[10:13] <chrisccoulson> ah, ok
[10:13] <seb128> so unity is not buildable :p
[10:13] <chrisccoulson> that sucks
[10:13] <seb128> indeed
[10:13] <seb128> we shouldn't let people do archive work on weekends ;-)
[10:14] <didrocks> yeah, we should make the scripts asking "really?" :)
[10:15] <didrocks> so upload a new glew1.5 I would say
[10:15] <seb128> right
[10:15] <didrocks> interesting issue on the versionning, should we incude the orig tarball? I guess so
[10:15] <seb128> then make sure that dx works on making unity runs with the new glew for beta1
[10:15] <didrocks> indeed
[10:15] <seb128> didrocks, what versionning?
[10:16] <seb128> didrocks, just reupload 1.5.7.is1.5.2 with an updated ubuntu revision and the source renamed
[10:16] <seb128> don't change the versions or binaries, just the source name
[10:16] <seb128> you will to upload the orig yes
[10:16] <didrocks> seb128: 1.5.7.is.1.5.2-1ubuntu3, but I need to -sa isn't it?
[10:16] <didrocks> yeah, that was my guess :)
[10:16] <seb128> we don't have glew1.5.orig.tar.gz
[10:17] <didrocks> doing that
[10:17] <seb128> oh, and feel free to new it yourself
[10:17] <seb128> we should record a milestoned bug for dx as well about update their glew compliance
[10:17] <seb128> so it's tracked
[10:17] <didrocks> seb128: sure, I was planning to, it's not really "NEW" :-)
[10:18] <didrocks> seb128: yeah, care about opening the bug?
[10:18] <seb128> will do
[10:18] <didrocks> thanks!
[10:18] <seb128> I've some details I can add as well since I spent an afternoon at the rally debugging it
[10:18] <didrocks> High/milestoned
[10:18] <didrocks> indeed, that's why I waited for you before doing anything
[10:18] <didrocks> as you were up to date on it :)
[10:21] <Amaranth> ah, lovely, got on a server in paris this time
[10:21] <Amaranth> maybe I won't drop the connection
[10:25] <njpatel> Amaranth, in paris? I'll probably strike in a bit, isn't it didrocks?
[10:26] <didrocks> njpatel: I don't know about paris anymore! No strike in Lyon :-)
[10:26] <njpatel> dammit
[10:26] <njpatel> :)
[10:26] <Amaranth> hehe
[10:27] <Amaranth> seems to be better than the one in texas
[10:28] <didrocks> well, is it a question? french is simply better :)
[10:28]  * Sweetshark lurks in from his vacation.
[10:28] <Sweetshark> jasoncwarner_: http://blog.documentfoundation.org/2011/08/01/libreoffice-3-4-2-for-enterprise-users/
[10:43] <didrocks> ok, glew1.5 builds fine and seems to work
[10:45] <davmor2> guys there is an issue with gnome keyring from a fresh install, it means that u1, rnr, and password storage doesn't happen for wifi etc is there anyway we can get it fixed for A3?
[10:46] <Amaranth> davmor2: 3.1.4 fixes it
[10:46] <Amaranth> well, is supposed to
[10:47] <RAOF> davmor2: chmod u+s /usr/bin/gnome-keyring-daemon is a quick and dirty workaround, if that's what you're after.
[10:51] <davmor2> RAOF: Yeap that's the one I was just making sure it was known to not be fixed currently
[10:52]  * RAOF isn't entirely sure why the fix isn't “so apply those capabilities in the postinst” rather than “so don't enable secure memory”
[10:52] <davmor2> Amaranth: sorry is that for gnome-keyring-deamon if so I'll check what version I currently have
[10:52] <Amaranth> RAOF: yeah, i'd rather have secure memory than not for something like that
[10:53] <davmor2> Amaranth: gnome-keyring is currently 3.1.1-0ubuntu2 from my fresh install :(
[10:54] <davmor2> it's not the end of the world it's just annoying :)
[11:04] <seb128> RAOF, it does call setcap in the postinst
[11:04] <seb128> dunno why it fails though
[11:12] <davmor2> RAOF, seb128: by setting the ssid /usr/bin/gnome-keyring-deamon will it effect further updates do you know or will it be over written when the fixed version is installed?
[11:16] <jbicha> Sweetshark: you're quoted in the LO 3.4.2 announcement http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/announce/msg00054.html
[12:07] <kenvandine> davmor2, hey... can you run this for me and send me the results?
[12:07] <kenvandine> dbus-send --type=method_call --print-reply --dest=com.Gwibber.Streams /com/gwibber/Streams com.Gwibber.Streams.Messages string:"all" string:"all" int32:0 string:"0" string:"0" string:"time" string:"desc" int32:0
[12:07] <kenvandine> you'll want to redirect that to a file
[12:09] <davmor2> kenvandine: just the man,  on my fresh install gwibber is now installed and home is showing all messages.  Does this code have something to do with that if so I'll need my netbook I think which will also need to wait till after lunch
[12:10] <kenvandine> yeah... so don't worry about it :)
[12:10] <jibel> there is no desktop image today:  system-config-printer-common : Depends: python-packagekit but it is not installable
[12:10] <jibel> anyone working on it ?
[12:10] <jibel> tkamppeter, ^
[12:17] <jibel> and alternate fails to install for the same reason
[12:17] <seb128> didrocks, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/oneiric/+milestones
[12:18] <seb128> didrocks, ubuntu-11.10-beta-1 is the correct beta1 naming
[12:18] <didrocks> seb128: ok, fixing, sorry
[12:18] <tjaalton> sound-juicer seems to be broken on oneiric, can't find the cd-drive. looking at the git log it seems abandoned, is this true?
[12:18] <seb128> didrocks, no worry, I get confused all the time, that's why I checked the url :p
[12:19] <seb128> tjaalton, could be, it's not actively maintained for sure
[12:19] <tjaalton> damn
[12:19] <didrocks> seb128: yeah, it's a trap to go from oneiric-alpha-3 to ubuntu-11.10-beta-1, but it makes sense :)
[12:19] <seb128> didrocks, ;-)
[12:26] <tjaalton> sigh, I need to find another ripper then, since I rip stuff in flac format and then transcode it to mp3 for banshee to sync the music to my phone
[12:28] <tkamppeter> jibel, I have introduced the dependency yesterday, because the new s-c-p 1.3.5 needs it. On my system python-packagekit seems to be installed already for longer time as I did not need to explicitly install it. Why does it not install for you?
[12:28] <jibel> tkamppeter, it is not me it is the build system http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/livefs-build-logs/oneiric/ubuntu/20110801.1/livecd-20110801.1-i386.out
[12:29] <jibel> and also a default alternate installation. I filed bug 819267 with the logs
[12:29] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 819267 in system-config-printer "Oneiric desktop image failed to build and alternate failed to install: system-config-printer-common : Depends: python-packagekit but it is not installable" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/819267
[12:29] <seb128> jibel, tkamppeter: the issue is that the binary is in universe
[12:31] <tkamppeter> seb128, can it get moved into main (and also hplip-gui)?
[12:32] <seb128> does it work with aptdaemon?
[12:32] <seb128> like did you test that this code is working on an Ubuntu install where we use aptdaemon and not pk?
[12:33] <tkamppeter> seb128, I do not know. I simply saw that it fulfills the dependency of the new upstream code of s-c-p.
[12:33] <seb128> what happens if it's not installed?
[12:34] <jibel> seb128, bug 819000
[12:34] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 819000 in system-config-printer "applet.py crashed with ImportError in /usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/cupshelpers/cupshelpers.py: No module named packagekit.client" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/819000
[12:34] <seb128> jibel, thanks
[12:35] <seb128> tkamppeter, could s-c-p upstream code handle it as an optional depends and deal with system which are using other packaging systems (like debian or ubuntu)
[12:35] <seb128> ?
[12:36] <seb128> it should be a recommends, not a depends and the code should handle correctly the case where the bindings are not installed
[12:37] <seb128> tkamppeter, hplip-gui can be promoted yes, is anything depending or recommending it?
[12:39] <cyphermox> good morning!
[12:39] <seb128> hey cyphermox, how are you?
[12:39] <cyphermox> pretty good and you?
[12:39] <kenvandine> good morning folks!
[12:40] <cyphermox> morning kenvandine
[12:41] <seb128> hey kenvandine
[12:41] <seb128> I'm fine thanks
[12:43] <cyphermox> seb128: remember about libgdata?
[12:43] <seb128> oh, now that you mention it yes! ;-)
[12:43] <seb128> spent my morning catching up with w.e activity and emails
[12:43] <cyphermox> it's already in the team branch
[12:43] <seb128> will do that in a bit, thanks for the reminder
[12:44] <cyphermox> I'll jump on nbs related to evo and all now
[12:44] <cyphermox> (and finish updating evo packages)
[12:44] <seb128> ok
[12:45] <kenvandine> seb128, we need to seed gwibber, we had relied on the depends from indicator-me before
[12:46] <kenvandine> as a weekend hack i added it as a recommends to indicator-messages :)
[12:46] <seb128> yeah, I saw
[12:48] <kenvandine> davmor2, can you verify that you can start gwibber from the messaging menu when you get a chance?
[12:48] <davmor2> kenvandine: on the fresh install yeap one second
[12:48] <kenvandine> thx
[12:49] <desrt> good morning, everyone
[12:49] <kenvandine> good morning desrt
[12:52] <seb128> hey desrt
[12:52] <davmor2> kenvandine: yeap starts from messaging menu, however after a reboot home is now only showing replies again so it must be a second run bug
[12:52] <seb128> desrt, back on your local timezone? ready to break your sleep habits again? ;-)
[12:52] <davmor2> kenvandine: do you want me to run that code now?
[12:57] <kenvandine> davmor2, yes please
[12:57] <desrt> seb128: yup :)
[12:57] <kenvandine> dbus-send --type=method_call --print-reply --dest=com.Gwibber.Streams /com/gwibber/Streams com.Gwibber.Streams.Messages string:"all" string:"all" int32:0 string:"0" string:"0" string:"time" string:"desc" int32:0
[12:57] <desrt> still waking quite early, though.  7:30 today.
[13:05] <davmor2> kenvandine: this is a huge file where do you want it?
[13:08] <davmor2> kenvandine: http://davmor2.co.uk/output1.log should have it
[13:10] <kenvandine> thx
[13:15] <davmor2> kenvandine: I can grab some screenshots of what I actually see in the different sections if that will help too :)
[13:23] <kenvandine> davmor2, no need... the data is more useful
[13:29] <kenvandine> davmor2, if you scroll way down in the home feed, do you start to see non-replies?
[13:32] <davmor2> kenvandine: Yeap eventually, it looks like it has organised the tickets into replies, private, everything else so I need to scroll down about 500 tickets to see stuff from today in home
[13:32] <kenvandine> bingo
[13:32] <kenvandine> woot
[13:32] <kenvandine> figured it out :)
[13:32] <kenvandine> it's a race of some sort
[13:33] <kenvandine> the sort order is getting applied before the stream is populated for you
[13:33] <kenvandine> now to figure out why :)
[13:34] <kenvandine> davmor2, i did reproduce it in a VM
[13:35] <davmor2> kenvandine: only seems to be after a reboot, when I first fired it up and added my accounts home displayed correctly :)
[13:36] <tjaalton> ah, ok.. sound-juicer needs that I open the disc from nautilus first, then it can find the tracks
[13:40] <tkamppeter> seb128, hplip-gui was only separated out because the Ubuntu Desktop CD had no Qt, now it has Qt and therefore we should take in hplip-gui, to avoid users reporting bugs about missing GUI tools of HPLIP.
[13:42] <seb128> tkamppeter, we only have some part of qt on the CD, do we have what hplip needs?
[13:42] <tkamppeter> seb128, s-c-p has a functionality of installing printer drivers shipped with the distro. I did not test these, as we install all drivers which are packaged by Ubuntu by default (Red Hat seems to do the default installation without printer drivers).
[13:43] <tkamppeter> seb128, I do not know. One should boot the CD and install hplip-gui directly afterwards. Then one sees how much will get installed.
[13:43] <seb128> ok
[13:44] <tkamppeter> seb128, if the amount of data is small enough, one can ship with hplip-gui.
[13:44] <seb128> tkamppeter, well can you revert that new depends to at least a recommends for a3?
[13:44] <seb128> tkamppeter, the python-packagekit binding is in universe, it will need a mir and review and promotion and testing with aptdaemon
[13:45] <seb128> tkamppeter, dropping the depends to a recommends or suggests would allow us to build CDs until all this paperwork is done
[13:45] <tkamppeter> seb128, for this I would need to change the upstream source as the applet is imperatively importing it.
[13:46] <seb128> well better to have a CD with the applet broken than no CD
[13:46] <seb128> but yeah, ideally upstream would put those import in a try: and handle the case where they are not there
[13:46] <seb128> they are doing assumption on the packaging tools installed which are distribution specific
[13:47] <tkamppeter> seb128, so I will look at first whether a simple patch could deactivate that functionality.
[13:47] <seb128> tkamppeter, thanks
[13:47] <seb128> tkamppeter, maybe revert the commit that added it in the next version for a3?
[13:51] <davmor2> kenvandine: something else I just noticed my latest posts aren't at the top they are at the bottom which is why although I see osd-notifies for them I don't seem to see the posts in gwibber
[13:51] <kenvandine> davmor2, what happens if you reverse your sort order?
[13:53] <davmor2> kenvandine: so now 11minutes ago is top of messages however replies and everything else is now 161days at the top
[13:54] <davmor2> kenvandine: and home doesn't seem to know if it is coming or going looking at it :)
[13:55] <davmor2> kenvandine: home's tickets are 1 hour, 2hours, 3 hours, 4 hours, 5 hours, 3 hours, 13 minutes :)
[14:42] <micahg> seb128: I asked for it as it was breaking other packages (libglew-dev) and realized the fallout afterwards (it was NBS an usually dev NBS packages aren't around), I apologized earlier and offered to upload the glew1.5 package that I saw didrocks upload about 4 hours ago
[14:43] <seb128> micahg, sorry I'm not on IRC during the w.e so I missed you asking and the following discussions
[14:43] <seb128> micahg, it was just unfortunate timing to clean it before a3 but no worry we got it sorted
[14:44] <micahg> seb128: yeah, in retrospect, I would've temporarily removed the virtual package from libglew1.6
[14:49] <seb128> micahg, no worry
[14:49] <micahg> seb128: I'll prepare a debdiff to fix the virtual package (libglew-dev) for after alpha3 (I assume we still want glew1.6 for oneiric)?
[14:50] <seb128> cyphermox, shouldn't liboauth-dev depends on libcurl....dev?
[14:50] <seb128> micahg, yes, we want 1.6 for oneiric
[14:50] <cyphermox> seb128: ah, no IIRC it didn't for some reason; do you prefer I fix that?
[14:51] <cyphermox> I think it's supposed to be libcurl-nss-dev if my memory serves me right
[14:51] <cyphermox> I had figured there was a reason why Bilal left it out
[14:52] <seb128> no, I think it's an error
[14:52] <cyphermox> sure, I'll just fix that now
[14:52] <seb128> installing the -dev should bring with it enough for the pkg-config call to work
[14:52] <cyphermox> right
[14:52] <seb128> thanks
[14:52] <chrisccoulson>  didrocks - what do i do with bugs like bug 816919? this is where maximized windows appear displaced on the screen, with a gap between the top of the window and the panel
[14:52] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 816919 in firefox "When I maximized Firefox, it was vertically displaced." [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/816919
[14:52] <chrisccoulson> you're aware of that problem aren't you?
[14:53] <mterry> seb128, I'm confused by this nautilus crash.  A recent dup said it went away when uninstalling deja-dup, but the original report did not have deja-dup installed.  I'm leery of lumping all these dups together.
[14:53] <seb128> mterry, sorry I didn't check that, it could be that they have similar signatures enough to confuse the retracers
[14:53] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: yeah, there is either a dup in unity or just redirect it there
[14:53] <seb128> mterry, feel free to reassign the old one to nautilus and unduplicate the most recent one
[14:54] <chrisccoulson> didrocks, is anyone working on that? it happens to my GF on natty pretty much every time she maximizes a window
[14:54] <chrisccoulson> (well, she complains about it being broken very often)
[14:54] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: not that I know, they are "on features", not "bugs" :/
[14:54] <chrisccoulson> meh :/
[14:54] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: hum, you mean, on oneiric?
[14:54] <chrisccoulson> that sucks ;)
[14:54] <didrocks> right?
[14:54] <chrisccoulson> didrocks, no, it happens on natty all the time
[14:55] <mterry> seb128, but the retracer ate all the debug info in this deja-dup one.  :-/  I guess I assume it's nearly the same as the nautilus-pure one
[14:55] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: oh, all the time on natty? that's interesting, I got it very occasionnaly but it was fixed with SRU1
[14:55] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: ask them on #ayatana I would say
[14:56] <seb128> mterry, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nautilus/+bug/807194 could the deja-dup one
[14:56] <ubot2> Ubuntu bug 807194 in nautilus "gksu nautilus crashed with SIGSEGV in g_file_query_info()" [Medium,Incomplete]
[14:56] <seb128> mterry, or https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/804330
[14:56] <ubot2> Ubuntu bug 804330 in nautilus "nautilus crashed with SIGSEGV in g_file_query_info()" [Medium,Triaged]
[14:57] <seb128> mterry, the one there has a debug stacktrace
[14:57] <seb128> you can use that one
[14:57] <chrisccoulson> didrocks, i'll see if i can get her to reproduce it
[14:58] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: thanks!
[14:59] <mterry> seb128, I can reproduce when opening root nautilus, I'll check it out
[14:59] <seb128> mterry, ok
[14:59] <chrisccoulson> root nautilus?
[14:59] <chrisccoulson> do people do that ;)
[15:00] <seb128> users insist on doing that
[15:00] <chrisccoulson> users are totally crazy
[15:00] <chrisccoulson> :)
[15:00] <seb128> indeed
[15:00] <seb128> the issues users complain most about in nautilus are often issue when run under sudo
[15:01] <chrisccoulson> seb128, "if (getuid() == 0) exit(0);"
[15:02] <chrisccoulson> ;)
[15:02] <chrisccoulson> problem solved!
[15:02] <chrisccoulson> although, i can imagine that would be quite unpopular
[15:02] <seb128> if "title == doesn't start when run with sudo; then reassign to chrisccoulson"
[15:02] <chrisccoulson> lol
[15:02] <seb128> ;-)
[15:06] <chrisccoulson> oh, unity-window-decorator just crashed and won't start again
[15:06] <chrisccoulson> "Gtk-ERROR **: GTK+ 2.x symbols detected. Using GTK+ 2.x and GTK+ 3 in the same process is not supported"
[15:07] <chrisccoulson> same for gtk-window-decorator :(
[15:08] <chrisccoulson> lol
[15:08] <chrisccoulson> should unset LD_PRELOAD from my environment first ;)
[15:09] <seb128> ;-)
[15:10] <seb128> what did you preload?
[15:10] <chrisccoulson> seb128, libgcr-3.so.1
[15:10] <seb128> cyphermox, libgdata uploaded, I dropped the libnss... build depends and the corresponding changelog
[15:10] <chrisccoulson> i was using that terminal for trying to figure out what was going on with gnome-keyring ;)
[15:10] <seb128> cyphermox, it will build fine once liboauth is fixed
[15:11] <cyphermox> yes yes :)
[15:13] <cyphermox> won't be long, just checking why it wasn't there; I was wondering if it should have been added by shlibs:depends
[15:14] <cyphermox> seb128: care to look into evolution-exchange too? that was missing from a seed to fall back into the ubuntu-desktop package set; I can push a branch now but I can't commit to the real one
[15:15] <seb128> cyphermox, dev depends are not automatically computed
[15:15] <seb128> cyphermox, sure for evolution-exchange, just copy your work or give a vcs to checkout
[15:16] <cyphermox> for the evolution-exchange or the seed change?
[15:16] <seb128> evolution-exchange
[15:16] <seb128> why do you need a seed change?
[15:17] <cyphermox> seb128: that had been suggested by cjwatson (adding to a seed that doesn't add to the cd or dvd); to make sure evo-exchange would remain in ubuntu-desktop
[15:17] <seb128> oh ok
[15:17] <seb128> well if you have a merge request for that let me know I can merge it I guess
[15:18] <seb128> just read your email on the topic, I forgot about it
[15:18] <seb128> supported-desktop-extra seems fine
[15:18] <cyphermox> yeah, sorry about that
[15:18] <cyphermox> it will take a bit more time this way but I guess then I won't have to bug you anymore
[15:20] <seb128> right
[15:21] <seb128> it's not only me, it's also better if desktop contributors can upload desktop sources, so we should fix the sets when we can ;-)
[15:21] <cyphermox> nah nah, it's just to not bug you
[15:22] <cyphermox> https://code.launchpad.net/~mathieu-tl/ubuntu-seeds/oneiric.evolution-exchange/+merge/70027
[15:29] <cyphermox> huh, new bluez... d'oh
[15:34] <seb128> cyphermox, bluez> already uploaded
[15:34] <cyphermox> yeah, I saw that, was just commenting :)
[15:34] <seb128> I figured you had enough other things to do already ;-)
[15:37] <ricotz> seb128, hello
[15:37] <seb128> ricotz, hey
[15:37] <ricotz> seb128, did you had a look at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/rhythmbox/+bug/780747
[15:37] <ubot2> Ubuntu bug 780747 in rhythmbox "Window does not always close when running gnome-shell" [Undecided,New]
[15:38] <seb128> ricotz, not yet, tried to finish a few things for a3 before the start of the CD rolls but I will in a bit
[15:39] <seb128> since rb is not on the CD I delayed it a bit, it can be updated during the freeze
[15:39] <ricotz> seb128, ok, no problem ;)
[15:39] <seb128> ricotz, sorry I did some of the libgnome* sync requests before noticed you filed bugs for those
[15:40] <ricotz> oh, you did
[15:40] <seb128> yeah, I read the debian changes list and watch versions
[15:40] <seb128> but don't watch the sponsoring queue that closely
[15:40] <seb128> so I noticed and did them before noticing your bugs
[15:40] <ricotz> i see, it's fine
[15:41] <seb128> ricotz, you can usually just ping on IRC or drop a note on the etherpad for desktop things that can be synced
[15:42] <ricotz> ok, trying to remember that etherpad thing
[15:58] <seb128> mterry, do you know how the if-session gnome-session condition works?
[16:06] <mterry> blargblarg
[16:07]  * cyphermox -> lunch
[16:11] <SpamapS> HI! any chance somebody has taken a look at bug 813343 ? Its really frustrating to have to use XFCE to get multi-monitor. :-/
[16:11] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 813343 in unity "nvidia drivers, second monitor covered by black" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/813343
[16:11] <mterry> seb128, yeah, a bit
[16:11] <seb128> mterry, is gnome-fallback a session name?
[16:11] <mterry> seb128, /usr/share/gnome-session/sessions has the sessions names
[16:11] <seb128> ok, that's probably because I don't have gnome-session-fallback that I don't have it
[16:11] <mterry> seb128, not in ubuntu, but I think it is upstream
[16:12] <mterry> seb128, oh, maybe it's in that package then.  I thought I had that installed too
[16:12] <seb128> mterry, I was trying to figure if there is a way to make a OnlyShowIn=GNOME; with a startup test on is-session gnome-fallback run in unity
[16:12] <seb128> mterry, but I figured I would better create a copy of the .desktop for unity
[16:12] <mterry> seb128, probably easier
[16:13] <seb128> we should probably teach gnome-session to have an "or" in the autostart condition
[16:13] <seb128> but that's low priority, I just copy that one for now
[16:15] <mterry> seb128, problem with the is-session bit is that session names aren't standardized and many are really the same environment (unity, unity-2d)
[16:15] <mterry> so any logic would get complicated pretty quick
[16:15] <SpamapS> I take it back, I can use unity-2d now..
[16:15] <seb128> mterry, well I think what we need is a reverse check
[16:15] <seb128> mterry, is-session-not gnome-shell
[16:15] <mterry> seb128, there is an unless-session
[16:15] <mterry> seb128, *but*
[16:16] <mterry> seb128, gdm runs gnome-session, so you'd end up running it in gdm too
[16:16] <seb128> mterry, because for things like the automounting (what I'm fixing) that's basically what you want
[16:16] <seb128> mterry, gdm has its private autostart dir though
[16:16] <seb128> mterry, it doesn't use the system one
[16:17] <seb128> mterry, /usr/share/gdm/autostart
[16:17] <mterry> seb128, ah.  I was talking to someone in a GNOME bug and they gave me that warning, but what you say makes sense too.  I had forgotten it did that
[16:18] <seb128> so I'm pondering just turning that in a unless-session gnome-shell then
[16:18] <seb128> having a .desktop copy sucks for several reasons
[16:18] <seb128> including having to keep the copy in sync with the upstream variant
[16:19] <seb128> or it would need to be an hack in the rules running some sed on the installed one
[16:19] <seb128> rather than a copy in the source
[16:19] <seb128> to create a copy uptodate
[16:20] <seb128> mterry, thanks for the discussion, I think I will just go for the unless gnome-shell and see how it goes ;-)
[16:21] <didrocks> reboot testing, brb
[16:24] <micahg> mterry: are you piloting later today?
[16:41] <mterry> micahg, yeah
[16:41] <mterry> after lunch
[16:41] <micahg> mterry: k, thanks
[16:42] <mterry> micahg, got something you want reviewed?
[16:42] <micahg> mterry: no,but I have someone with something to be reviewed :)
[16:42] <micahg> I'll have him ping you when you start piloting
[16:53] <skaet> seb128, since we're ramping up to A3,  what is the feeling about re-enabling apport by default?
[17:11] <jbicha> skaet: it's enabled by default right now, unless you're asking something completely different
[17:12] <skaet> jbicha,  just working through the checklist for the release, and if its enabled that's cool.
[17:12] <skaet> thanks!
[17:21] <skaet> seb128, mterry, jasoncwarner_ bug811524 is marked critical for A3.  Is this accurate?   If so, is there someone working on a fix?
[17:22] <cyphermox> skaet: looking, but I think this might already be fixed
[17:23] <mterry> yah, I don't think I get that behavior
[17:23]  * micahg thought that was fixed in 0.9.2
[17:23] <skaet> cyphermox, yeah,  the log seems to indicate it might be,  but the status is confusing.
[17:23] <cyphermox> indeed
[17:25] <cyphermox> I'm rebooting a system now to make sure
[17:27] <cyphermox> yeah it works
[17:27] <cyphermox> or to be precise, it doesn't fail that way :)
[17:35] <mterry> cyphermox, skaet: marking it fix released then
[17:36] <skaet> thanks mterry.  :)
[17:36] <skaet> thanks cyphermox :)
[17:36] <cyphermox> thanks... I can definitely confirm it doesn't do *that* now, but I can't say I get a session :)
[17:37] <cyphermox> ah, I see, badly out of date mirror on this system
[18:43] <dobey> anyone here familiar with using gtk+ through Python gi?
[18:55] <cyphermox> hrm... temporarily relegated to 3G...
[18:56]  * didrocks waves good evening
[18:56] <didrocks> time for dinner
[19:29] <mterry> dobey, a little
[19:30] <dobey> mterry: haven't used any GtkNotebooks have you?
[19:30] <mterry> dobey, nope, haven't delved that much
[19:32] <dobey> ok
[19:32] <dobey> i'm hitting a very annoying crash when i try to connect to the switch-page signal on a notebook :(
[19:33] <jbicha> mterry: if you're not too busy, could you look at https://code.launchpad.net/~jbicha/ubuntu/oneiric/gitg/gitg-0.2.4/+merge/69397
[19:33] <mterry> jbicha, ok
[19:33] <jbicha> cool, thanks!
[19:52] <mterry> @pilot out
[19:52] <mterry> whoops
[20:30] <jasoncwarner_> hey cyphermox mterry kenvandine and tremolux how are things going ? having a good A3 so far?
[20:30] <kenvandine> a bit drained here... but things look pretty good from my vantage point
[20:36] <tremolux> jasoncwarner_: heyo!  \o
[21:54] <AfC> The 3.0.2-1ubuntu1~natty1 package is still refusing to install on Natty.
[22:15] <cyphermox> hey jasoncwarner_: yup, things looking good :)
[22:37] <jasoncwarner_> hey cyphermox, sent you an email on conman, when you get a chance


[12:54] <Aquina> 'lo
[16:06] <charlie-tca> Good morning
[16:09] <davmor2> morning charlie-tca how's life?
[16:10] <charlie-tca> exciting as can be!
[16:10] <charlie-tca> Natty is coming soon now
[16:13] <davmor2> charlie-tca: how's Xubuntu shaping up had no time to look at it this time round :(
[16:13] <charlie-tca> I thinnk it is a good release
[16:14] <charlie-tca> Not too many issues, considering the changes that have happened
[17:15] <PsynoKhi0> hi
[17:15] <charlie-tca> Hello, PsynoKhi0
[20:37] <imagus> Hey
[20:37] <imagus> Hey


[00:00] <skellat> Right now I'm just writing up the Dashboard for LoCo Council so we can have an idea of where things stand
[00:00] <belkinsa> On the status of the USA LoCo's or something else?
[00:01] <skellat> Other things
[00:02] <skellat> We've got 9 Re-/Verification matters open, 1 Forced Change of Contact open, and 4 Special Situations
[00:02] <belkinsa> Ah, I see.
[00:04] <skellat> 4 more days left for the open vote on the Forced Change of Contact, timing is fluid for the rest
[00:05] <belkinsa> Which LoCo is for, if I can ask that?
[00:06] <skellat> Not yet
[00:06] <skellat> Once the vote is over & we announce it
[00:07] <belkinsa> I see.
[00:09] <jrgifford> (random, but semi related) i wish that governing bodies were a little more transparent during the discussion
[00:09] <jrgifford> cleveland heights seems to never disagree on anything.
[00:09] <jrgifford> (city council)
[00:10] <belkinsa> I really think we need to have a country based LoCo with regions as the subteams rather than states.
[00:10] <jrgifford> Propose that
[00:10] <jrgifford> formally.
[00:10] <jrgifford> with a list of advantages, disadvantages, etc
[00:10] <skellat> belkinsa: And right now Community Council disagrees with that
[00:10] <belkinsa> Sigh, we need numbers and stats!  And what jrgifford said.
[00:10] <skellat> And among the several competing contradictory e-mails I've tried to read...I'm still at a loss as to what they want
[00:11] <jrgifford> it's a complex issue, and one that can't just be said "Do this!"
[00:11] <jrgifford> and as the community grows/compacts/migrates, needs change
[00:11] <belkinsa> I agree, maybe we can brainstorm now?
[00:11] <skellat> By all means
[00:12] <jrgifford> i'm only on for another minute. just popped on to say hi and random things. but sure, i'll join in when i can.
[00:12] <belkinsa> It's cool.
[00:12]  * belkinsa digs for that e-mail
[00:15] <belkinsa> Okay, I guess one advantage is that you can have a larger council when you have regions.  Another is that ReLoCo's and UH's still will exist...er, but I guess is the question of how to list them along with the leader of the ReLoCo and how define that area for the ReLoCo.
[00:20] <skellat> Perhaps
[00:21] <skellat> Michael Hall's been the voice on Community Council complaining that the Community Budget is sitting at $40,000 or so and that he is claiming that there are not enough people to put it to use.
[00:21] <skellat> His thinking in his last message contradicted itself at one point which made me have to re-read his message a few times
[00:22] <skellat> The issues raised by Community Council so far included:
[00:22] <skellat> 1.  You're doing an administrative task but we don't want you to seem administrative or bureaucratic
[00:22] <skellat> 2.  It is about people, not numbers
[00:22] <skellat> 3.  Don't be constrained by your own rules and break them when you feel it necessary
[00:22] <skellat> 4.  Be more open and transparent
[00:23] <skellat> 5. Nobody really knows what should be the right size for a team but don't get hung up on borders...let it be a LoCo Council judgment call
[00:24] <skellat> 6.  Why is there this Community Budget nobody is using?
[00:24] <skellat> 7.  Do we really need you guys to do what you're doing?
[00:25] <skellat> That's the simplest breakdown I can get from Daniel Holbach, Michael Hall, Elizabeth Krumbach Joseph, Laura Czajkowski all writing from different perspectives
[00:26] <belkinsa> Times are changing and I think it's time to change to the times, but I don't know how based on what you have posted.
[00:27] <belkinsa> How are the larger country's LoCo's doing anyways?  And how they deal with ReLoCo's and that stuff?
[00:27] <skellat> Brazil is the gold standard for handling that
[00:28] <belkinsa> Want to tell me how they do it?
[00:29] <skellat> Everybody is a member of a state team and is thereby a member of the country team since the state teams are the country team's members
[00:30] <belkinsa> So states are the subteams of Brazil.
[00:30] <belkinsa> Do they have a council?
[00:30] <skellat> Yes
[00:30] <skellat> See: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-br/+members?active_batch=75&active_memo=75&active_start=75
[00:31] <jenni> [ Members : “Ubuntu Brasil” team ] - https://j.mp/1sfXjas
[00:31] <belkinsa> Thansk.
[00:33] <belkinsa> I was thinking of doing states as subteams at first but I changed my mind to regions.  Maybe states are better choice.
[00:38] <skellat> How do people arrange themselves naturally?  Therein lay the conundrum.  Have you ever looked at the State of Ohio broken down into Census Statistical Areas?
[00:38] <skellat> From that perspective, there in no single Ohio
[00:40] <belkinsa> Good point.
[00:40] <belkinsa> Then regions are better.
[00:40] <belkinsa> s/./>
[00:40] <jenni> belkinsa meant to say: Then regions are better>
[00:41] <belkinsa> s/>/?
[00:41] <skellat> Perhaps
[00:41] <skellat> I'm trying to find a Census map for Ohio to use as an example
[00:42] <belkinsa> I figured that you are looking.
[00:43] <skellat> This works: http://www.census.gov/geo/maps-data/maps/statecbsa.html
[00:43] <jenni> [ State-based Metropolitan and Micropolitan Statistical Areas Maps - Geography - U.S. Census Bureau ] - https://j.mp/1sfZKKa
[00:46] <belkinsa> I got your point but I think that wouldn't really change the view of using states as subteams of the USA LoCo.
[00:47] <skellat> Did you look at how many regions Ohio is broken into?
[00:48] <skellat> The idea of the statistical areas are that the Census Bureau uses them for grouping similar populations.  Having a similar urban nexus, connected telecommunications, some social homogeneity, roadworks, and more.  Notice how Ashtabula stands alone as its own region?
[00:49] <belkinsa> Yeah, I see.
[00:50] <belkinsa> Aren't stats not important though in this case for you guys?
[00:51] <jrgifford> only when we aren't spending their money fast enough
[00:51] <jrgifford> ;p
[00:51] <belkinsa> Well, it seems that the budget is being uses that much...
[00:52] <belkinsa> [20:24] <skellat> 7.  Do we really need you guys to do what you're doing?
[00:52] <belkinsa> [20:25] <skellat> That's the simplest breakdown I can get from Daniel Holbach, Michael Hall, Elizabeth Krumbach Joseph, Laura Czajkowski all writing from different perspectives
[00:52] <belkinsa> [20:26] <belkinsa> Times are changing and I think it's time to change to the times, but I don't know how based on what you have posted.
[00:52] <belkinsa> [20:27]
[00:52] <belkinsa> Er
[00:52] <belkinsa> ] <skellat> 6.  Why is there this Community Budget nobody is using?
[00:52] <belkinsa> Stupid mouse.
[00:53] <skellat> I've got it written up that Community Budget isn't a germane issue to LoCo Council.  There are as of this moment only 763 members in ~ubuntumembers who can access the Community Budget.  Nothing says you have to be part of ~ubuntumembers to be a community leader (two Verified communities in fact don't have such) and I don't want to impose such a requirement.
[00:54] <belkinsa> Okay.
[00:54] <jrgifford> (sorry, my comment was snide.)
[00:54] <belkinsa> It's cool.
[00:59] <skellat> "We can encourage leaders to move towards joining ~ubuntumembers but we cannot force anyone.  Making membership in ~ubuntumembers a requirement to lead a community would be counterproductive when we're trying to encourage growth.  Bringing the Community Budget into this discussion is a matter that is at best not germane to LoCo Council directly. "
[01:00] <skellat> That's part of what I've got written.
[01:00] <skellat> Also: "There are separate calls to be open and transparent while also not seeming administrative and bureaucratic.  A certain amount of tension exists between those separate calls that is hard to overcome.  I can only note that we do not reflect any of the more overly bureaucratic procedures from Debian but also due try to ensure that there is a common rule that has generally expected outcomes." (continues)
[01:00] <skellat> "I recognize the call to be able to go beyond and break rules but the way that that is put slides too easily towards making decisions by mere whimsy. "
[01:01] <skellat> That should have been a "do" above that I should have typed while I was likely thinking "due process"
[01:03]  * belkinsa really needs to sleep on this
[01:03]  * belkinsa her brain is fried
[01:05] <belkinsa> Slaapwel, everyone.
[01:11] <skellat> Goodnight comrade