[12:57] <mpt> Noooooo, come back vish
[13:02] <mpt> Hello godbyk and thorwil
[13:03] <thorwil> hi mpt, godbyk
[13:03] <mpt> [godbyk] idle 15:02:01, signon: Wed Jun 16 22:01:16
[13:04] <mpt> hmm :-)
[13:04] <mpt> So, this team seems to be shrinking
[13:04] <mpt> Ivanka, Charline, and David are all busy with Canonical stuff today
[13:04] <mpt> hi vish
[13:05] <thorwil> hello vish. seems it's just mpt, you and i
[13:05] <vish> hi
[13:05] <vish> yay , meeting cancel then ;p
[13:06] <thorwil> would we had a topic, even? besides the ux-pattern thing being a total fail?
[13:08] <mpt> Well, I had two things in mind
[13:08] <mpt> One was vish's situation with papercuts
[13:08] <mpt> And the other was heuristic bug tagging
[13:09] <mpt> But now maybe we have a more important one, how to increase team participation :-)
[13:09] <thorwil> i though vish eats papercuts for breakfast?
[13:10] <vish> mpt: ah yeah , i went through the papercuts and most of them seem to not require the gtk3 , so it shouldnt hurt us much
[13:10] <mpt> Yes, he does, but Ubuntu 10.10 will be shipping the same version of Gnome as 10.04 did
[13:10] <vish> mpt: + we can use your FTDAU , if you already have them sorted out
[13:11] <mpt> vish, what sorting out are you looking for?
[13:11] <vish> mpt: seemed like you already had a few FTDAU in your mind :)
[13:11] <vish> so we could address those
[13:12] <thorwil> what's FTDAU?
[13:12] <mpt> Fails To Do Anything Useful
[13:12] <mpt> a counterpart to the existing ftbfs = Fails To Build From Source
[13:12]  * thorwil knows DAU as Dümmster Anzunehmender User = dumbest user to be expected
[13:13] <mpt> ha
[13:13] <vish> mpt: and david mentioned we can be clear about the gnome situation, we have nearly 200 confirmed+triaged papercuts..
[13:13] <vish> we need people fixing them :s
[13:14] <mpt> vish, the only ones I know of at the moment are the various prism-* apps, which don't lanch because they "Could not find compatible GRE between version 1.9.2 and 1.9.2.*." But every so often I install an application from Universe and it does nothing, or crashes on startup, or shows an empty window, or whatever.
[13:14] <mpt> I haven't made a list.
[13:15] <thorwil> simply broken packages are papercuts. too?
[13:16] <mpt> thorwil, so the idea is that they're an important set of bugs to fix, even if they're not bugs that someone might experience in their first day using Ubuntu
[13:17] <vish> mpt: ah cool,we can just add the FTDAU to a milestone ? once you can get a clearer definition of what it can cover?
[13:18] <mpt> vish, I'm not sure what you mean by "add the FTDAU to a milestone"
[13:19] <vish> have all those similar FTDAU bugs in one milestone , you mentioned prism-*  do we deal with each package as a bug?
[13:19] <mpt> I was thinking more, announce the tag, talk to whoever we need to talk to to make it an "official tag" for Ubuntu, campaign for people to fix them
[13:20] <vish> wfm :)
[13:21] <mpt> thorwil, what did you mean by "the ux-pattern thing being a total fail"?
[13:22] <vish> mpt: we can have a milestone for "improving software center experience" , we encourage user to find all such packages? and try to sort them out?
[13:22] <thorwil> mpt: a bit of editing by aday, nobody else picking it up: http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/ui-patterns
[13:24] <thorwil> mpt: so it's either i continue all by myself, or nothing happens. it will be nothing happens, actually as i have more rewarding activities
[13:24] <mpt> vish, oh, you mean a milestone within the Papercuts project? That's an interesting idea. I was thinking of it as more of a long-term thing, like FTBFS is.
[13:25] <vish> mpt: yeah , people already like tagging bugs as papercuts , once this becomes more familiar , we can continue FTDAU long-term too
[13:26] <djsiegel> (Sorry I'm late, guys!)
[13:26] <mpt> thorwil, it's a success if subsequent revisions to interface guidelines take those patterns into account. It's a failure if subsequent revisions don't take those patterns into account. If there haven't been any revisions yet, it might be too early to declare failure. :-)
[13:26] <mpt> vish, ok. I've already started using a "metadata" tag for bad package descriptions that show up in USC, too.
[13:27] <mpt> hi djsiegel
[13:27] <thorwil> mpt: the idea was to get people from the ayatana list working on that. after a week without response, i'm sure nothing will happen from that side
[13:27] <mpt> ah, ok
[13:27] <djsiegel> I have a few things to mention during the meeting about UX Advocates if we have time at the end.
[13:28] <mpt> thorwil, compiling design guidelines is a highly unsexy task, so I wouldn't be too disappointed about that.
[13:28] <mpt> djsiegel, UX advocates, go
[13:29] <djsiegel> ok, awesome!
[13:29] <mpt> Keeping in mind there's just ~5 of us here :-)
[13:29] <djsiegel> Ok, who is here btw?
[13:29] <thorwil> djsiegel: vish mpt thorwil
[13:29] <vish> mpt: yeah , papercuts had a lot of bugs filed for bad "metadata" , we can polish them as well , people are very excited about the software store now. we can just use the momentum.
[13:29] <djsiegel> So, OpenUsability.org is creating a project called Summer of Usability
[13:30] <mpt> 4 ≈ 5
[13:30] <vish> err, S *center
[13:30] <djsiegel> they want to pay a bunch of HCI students $1000 to work on a well defined usability task in an open source project
[13:30] <mpt> I think they did this last year too
[13:30] <djsiegel> cool
[13:31] <djsiegel> so we need to channel this energy into UX Advocates
[13:31] <djsiegel> I am speaking to the guy organizing the project
[13:31] <djsiegel> would be awesome to get 10 paid UX Advocates grouped with various OSS projects
[13:31] <mpt> hm
[13:32] <mpt> So would they be short-term UX advocates?
[13:32] <djsiegel> historically 50% of their sponsored students stick with the OSS project they work with during the summer
[13:33] <mpt> ah, cool
[13:33] <djsiegel> so if you guys could check out openusability.org and just be aware for now, that would be excellent
[13:33] <djsiegel> and be aware of http://openetherpad.org/uxadvocates1
[13:34] <mpt> There is no EtherPad document here.
[13:34] <thorwil> http://openetherpad.org/uxadvocates
[13:34] <mpt> ok
[13:35] <djsiegel> oops
[13:35] <mpt> Thanks djsiegel
[13:35] <mpt> So, before next week's meeting, I will:
[13:35] <mpt> * arrange an agenda in advance
[13:36] <mpt> * e-mail a reminder to everyone
[13:36] <djsiegel> mpt: Jan-Christoph Borchard wants to work on USC and Update Manager
[13:36] <djsiegel> sorry for interrupting
[13:36] <mpt> * invite a couple more people to join the team. :-)
[13:36] <mpt> no worries
[13:37] <mpt> Thank you thorwil and vish for turning up despite my neglect
[13:37] <vish> ;)
[13:37] <thorwil> heh
[13:40] <thorwil> mpt: i'm not surprised, either. although, personally, i don' consider compiling guidelines that unsexy. it's just too expensive in time and though for me, currently
[13:41] <mpt> thorwil, oh sure, it's fascinating for me too, but we're weird
[13:42] <thorwil> yeah
[14:02] <wers> oops i'm late
[14:04] <thorwil> wers: it's ok, mpt didn't close the meeting, yet :)
[14:04] <mpt> haha
[14:04] <wers> hahaha
[14:05] <mpt> Somebody e-mail me a gavel
[14:08] <thorwil> not email, but this will do: http://www.canyon-news.com/artman2/uploads/2/gavel.gif
[14:10] <thorwil> wers: so mpt and vish talked about papercuts and tagging bugs. i pointed out the trying to get ayatana list dwellers to work on ux patterns failed.
[14:10] <thorwil> wers: djsiegel brought up http://openusability.org/, who will do another Summer of Usability, paying a few students to work on OSS projects
[14:10] <thorwil> arg
[14:12] <thorwil> wers: so mpt and vish talked about papercuts and tagging bugs. i pointed out the trying to get ayatana list dwellers to work on ux patterns failed.
[14:12] <thorwil> wers: so mpt and vish talked about papercuts and tagging bugs. i pointed out the trying to get ayatana list dwellers to work on ux patterns failed.
[14:12] <thorwil> wers: djsiegel brought up http://openusability.org/, who will do another Summer of Usability, paying a few students to work on OSS projects
[14:12] <wers> got dc
[14:13] <wers> cool thorwil . i got your two messages after reconnecting
[14:14] <thorwil> np. so meeting closed for real, i'd say, if further discussion -> #ayatana
[14:14]  * thorwil -> coffee
[14:14] <wers> thorwil, thanks man!
[14:15] <vish> thorwil confirms he is Brad Pitt Of ubuntu ;)
[23:36] <IdleOne> membership meeting tonight?
[23:41] <easter_egg> IdleOne, yes
[23:41] <IdleOne> easter_egg: thank you
[23:42] <easter_egg> IdleOne, in one hour
[23:42] <IdleOne> I'll be here with bells and whistles on :)
[23:43] <Ursinha> :)
[23:48] <easter_egg> IdleOne, haha


[04:45] <Anon95> I just installed Ubuntu GNOME 15.10 (x64) on my laptop. Everything went fine, but I noticed the screen goes wonky for a split-second every time I hit enter at the login screen, so I changed the drivers to the proprietary AMD drivers. Now unfortunately, the GUI doesn't boot up.
[04:46] <darkxst> Anon95, probably not installed probably
[04:46] <Anon95> The display remains black. I also tried going into Advanced Options > Recovery Mode and then selecting “FailsafeX”
[04:48] <Anon95> Well, I didn't get any errors during the process and I checked with System Monitor to see if anything was happening, because it took a bit of time, and it seemed like it was working. There was lots of network activity from what I assume would be the installer downloading the drivers.
[04:52] <berglh> it sounds like to me the kernel headers failed to compile
[04:53] <berglh> you can recover it by going to root shell on the recovery menu
[04:53] <berglh> then doing something like this: http://askubuntu.com/questions/68306/how-do-i-remove-the-proprietary-ati-drivers
[04:55] <berglh> Anon95: i dont' see that 15.10 is supported by the AMD driver
[04:56] <berglh> there is a generic Linux installer, not sure if that would work
[04:56] <Anon95> Berglh: I'm going to try that now and report back asap
[04:56] <berglh> http://support.amd.com/en-us/download/desktop?os=Linux+x86_64
[04:56] <berglh> Hmm, that driver seems to specifically say 15.10 support
[04:57] <berglh> Which was the Linux option not the Ubuntu option at the driver selection page
[04:57] <berglh> Hmm, it is listed
[04:57] <berglh> Anyway, if you do try to install it, watch it really closely
[04:57] <berglh> it will do like a DKMS build
[04:57] <berglh> last time I tried it, it failed to build
[04:57] <Anon95> Perhaps something happened during the installation. Either way, I'll try what you suggested
[04:58] <Anon95> I'm not sure what DKMS means.
[04:58] <berglh> but then the install finishes and leaves it half installed without the kernel header
[04:58] <berglh> dynamic kernel module support
[04:58] <berglh> the driver builds a module
[04:59] <berglh> so when you start the kernel it loads the module
[04:59] <berglh> to provide support for the graphics
[04:59] <berglh> anyway, good luck
[05:05] <Anon95> Okay, I had some trouble removing it from the recovery option in GRUB, but I booted it up like I normally would and pressed Ctrl+Alt+F1 and did the commands there and now I can see the GUI, but the resolution is way off
[05:07] <Anon95> I guess what I should do now is set the graphics driver back to the default
[05:08] <Anon95> Hmm, this is interesting. It seems like I can't select the X.Org driver. I'll post an imgur link below to show you what I see
[05:10] <Anon95> https://imgur.com/ftQzptK
[05:11] <darkxst> Anon95, I think "sudo apt-get install --reinstall xserver-xorg-core" will get you back to defualt
[05:12] <berglh> you may also need libgl1-mesa-glx:i386 libgl1-mesa-dri:i386 libgl1-mesa-glx:amd64 libgl1-mesa-dri:amd64
[05:13] <berglh> or something
[05:14] <Anon95> Alright. After It's done updating (https://imgur.com/dARzlla), I'll do just that
[05:22] <darkxst> berglh, pretty sure its just libGL.so that gets mess up by installing proprietry drivers
[05:22] <berglh> oh, intersting
[05:23] <darkxst> that is why NVidia invented libGLVND
[05:24] <darkxst> it will once implemented allow multiple GL implemtations to co-exist on your install
[05:31] <Anon95> Alright. After running sudo apt-get update multiple times and then running “sudo apt-get purge "fglrx.*",” it now has resorted back to normal and I can confirm in Additional Drivers, that it is using the default X.Org drivers
[05:32] <Anon95> Here's the link to the answer I followed: http://askubuntu.com/a/68312
[05:48] <darkxst> Anon95, that is the conservative approach, you just need to make sure mesa rewrites libGL.so, and I am pretty sure that oneliner I gave you before is enough for that (from memory)
[10:16] <LaserAllan> hey guys, I just switched to ubuntu-gnome and i am wondering if there is a way to change the UI so that I for example can have a better view of what I have opened?, kinda like Linuxmint,I also wonder where i might be able to change the borders around iwndows
[10:19] <darkxst> LaserAllan, the window borders are part of the gtk theme
[10:20] <darkxst> UI changes require extensions
[10:31] <LaserAllan> darkxst: Ok, even if i want to change the borders on the windows?
[10:31] <LaserAllan> I am currently on a quite low res screen so the border is quite big
[10:32] <darkxst> LaserAllan, yes its all part of the gtk theme (As of about a year ago)
[10:32] <darkxst> just find another theme you like, I guess
[10:33] <LaserAllan> Ok, so it is that easy to change theme?
[10:34] <darkxst> LaserAllan, use gnome-tweak-tool (you need to find the theme first) but otherwise yeh
[10:34] <LaserAllan> darkxst: Ok thanks, I am very new to Ubuntu GNOME, ive only used Ubuntu Server LTS before
[10:45] <LaserAllan> darkxst: I have to say though that Ubuntu GNOME isn't too bad :)
[10:46] <darkxst> LaserAllan, just not too bad?
[10:47] <LaserAllan> darkxst: So far I've had some issues since i installed it on this old laptop but i wasn't really expecting anything different really. I think I just need time to get used to the userinterface :)
[10:48] <darkxst> yeh its a bit different
[10:49] <LaserAllan> that's what I am trying to get used to but all in allit feels allot better than Windows which prior to me switching to Linux on this laptop barely ran at all
[10:49] <LaserAllan> So in terms of that it's an enormous difference
[10:50] <darkxst> LaserAllan, i tried win 10 out the other day, its a mish-mash of a mess!
[10:52] <LaserAllan> darkxst: Indeed, but what I like about is the interface and window management but that is pretty much it
[10:52] <LaserAllan> and Its still sadly the best alternative for gaming
[10:52] <LaserAllan> I really hope Linux gets a push the next few years
[10:53] <darkxst> plenty of games on steam linux
[10:53] <darkxst> also some big publishers holding out on linux support
[10:53] <LaserAllan> darkxst: Yeah I know but specific hardware setups for example, I have multiple GPUs which as far as I know SLI isn't suported on linux or is it?
[10:53] <LaserAllan> Yeah thats a shame
[10:54] <darkxst> nvidia SLI is supported, but most games don't support it
[10:55] <darkxst> but I don't have time for games, spend my spare time fixing bugs
[10:55] <darkxst> so you kids can have a fun Ubuntu GNOME experience!
[10:55] <LaserAllan> Oh, well I know for a fact that DX12 isn't:P, most games don't support that fully yet. It also seems like most games have higher system requirements on linux
[10:55] <LaserAllan> Haha
[10:55] <darkxst> Vulkan!
[10:56] <LaserAllan> darkxst: I really hope Vulkan gets as widely adopted as it should be becuase then Liinux will be a reality to just ditch Windows completely. I think the only thing id ever use windows for then is photoshop.
[10:58] <darkxst> I suspect it will, but probably over the next year or two
[10:58] <LaserAllan> oh and darkxstI had some issues with "apt" when id installed GNOME last night. It was something that was fixable and I am having some issues getting Xymon to play along but other than that I am imprssed and whats even better is no DAMN BLOATWARE :)
[10:59] <darkxst> what issues?
[11:00] <darkxst> details are important!
[11:00] <darkxst> "I had some issue" is useless to us
[11:00] <LaserAllan> Ofc
[11:01] <LaserAllan> It had something to do gtk I suspect the UI?, it was fixable though lemme see if i can find the notes i took of it :)
[11:01] <darkxst> apt doesnt have a UI though
[11:02] <LaserAllan> darkxst: http://pastebin.com/ry48uZTm
[11:03] <LaserAllan> thats the issue I get when i try to install xymon
[11:03] <darkxst> that is a bug in their packaging
[11:04] <darkxst> and since I don't even know what xymon is, its officially not my problem!
[11:04] <darkxst> file a bug against their project
[11:05] <LaserAllan> I will
[11:06] <LaserAllan> Sorry, I just thought you might know what it might be causing it
[11:07] <LaserAllan> xymon is a surveillance tool for servers but its nice to have on any Linux machine becuase it checks updates and allot of other things and it can then mail you when/if it finds a problem. I have it mostly to monitor connections and certain processes on my servers.
[11:07] <LaserAllan> Really easy and nice to use
[11:09] <darkxst> LaserAllan, its a bug in their packaging
[11:09] <darkxst> and with that
[11:09]  * darkxst sleeps
[15:14] <johnjohn101> after 16.04 is released, how soon will 3.20.x be available on ubuntu-gnome?
[15:59] <ricotz> johnjohn101, if you insist you can use the gnome3-staging ppa for some 3.20 bits which is considered unstable at this point
[16:00] <johnjohn101> i'm not really interested in unstable.
[16:02] <ricotz> your question pretty much suggested so, if you are implicitly referring to 16.10 dev-cycle
[16:04] <johnjohn101> i guess i can wait until 16.10 alpha 2 or beta
[16:04] <ricotz> jfyi gnome3-staging won't be fully endorsed at any point, annoying issues are subject to be fixed though
[16:05] <johnjohn101> i'm enjoying 15.10 ubuntu gnome btw! will upgrade next week
[16:06] <ricotz> great, have fun
[18:21] <Arnex> Couple of questions: Will Ubuntu Gnome 16.04 release on or around April 21st (along with regular Ubuntu)?  Also, is there a webpage with information specifically on Ubuntu Gnome 16.04?
[20:54] <Mozhan> Hello
[23:30] <LaserAllan> hey guys, anyone have any suggestion of a good .cbz reader?


[03:37] <blahdeblah> Just heard the news about infinity. :-(  Very sorry to hear it, and my condolences to his family and all the team at Canonical.  A great loss for the community.
[03:38] <sarnold> <3 it hurts :(
[03:55] <tumbleweed> he'll be sorely missed :(
[08:39] <seb128> juliank, hey, did you see bug #1912718 which claims to be a regression from the recent oem changes
[10:42] <juliank> seb128: people claim a lot, half the time it's wrong. I don't have any insight into this feature and what it does
[10:43] <juliank> you can see it's been tagged incoming, so it'll be discussed next thursday
[10:44] <juliank> like why blame the oem changes and not the hwe kernel grouping changes
[10:47] <seb128> SRU team ^ we might want to back that update out of focal-updates or .2 until the regression is sorted out
[10:47] <seb128> sil2100, ^ fyi
[10:48] <seb128> juliank, one week to wait is really suboptimal with the LTS .2 coming
[10:49] <juliank> the update is already phased at 0%
[10:49] <juliank> it's not like anyone gets it
[10:50] <juliank> i just autoremoved my kernels yesterday, so I'm not going to be helpful
[10:51] <seb128> juliank, did we land apt phasing in focal? if not any apt user would still get the updated version...
[10:52] <juliank> no
[10:52] <seb128> also the .2 ISO doesn't care about the phasing %
[10:52] <juliank> yes
[10:52] <seb128> it's going to include the current versions
[10:53] <juliank> I don't have insight into this, but holding back the update from .2 seems like the wrong approach
[10:53] <seb128> it's fine if you don't want to handle that regression, still I think it should be on the release team list to check before .2
[10:53] <seb128> right, shipping a regression in a LTS point release is also the wrong approach
[10:57] <juliank> seb128: I can confirm the bug in hirsute
[10:59] <juliank> seb128: yeah this is a regression from the linux hwe change, as it now matches versioned packages rather than meta packages
[11:01] <juliank> So I guess we gotta add a tag to bug 1902025
[11:06] <juliank> seb128: So I can revert those changes, in SRUs at least, the devel change history is harder to revert...
[11:07] <juliank> but maybe bdmurray and JawnSmith want to actually fixi t
[11:07] <juliank> We do have another regression report that causes phasing to go to 0% which I don't understand
[11:07] <juliank> https://errors.ubuntu.com/problem/eac836e467681c6b96247949de5b356d6c3da968
[11:08] <juliank> people apparently using the synaptic backend (despite aptdaemon being installed)
[11:08] <juliank> did they remove their aptd binary?
[11:08] <juliank> weird
[11:09] <juliank> (they certainly don't set the environment variable forcing aptdaemon as we can see in ProcEnvironment file)
[11:09] <juliank> Should be fixed too
[11:10] <juliank> but arguably we have no way to collaborate on SRUs of update-manager
[11:10] <juliank> there is no repo, so I can't commit a fix and have the others commit their fixes :/
[11:11] <seb128> juliank, those reports are from LXQt desktops
[11:11] <seb128> so that flavor is probably not installing aptdaemon?
[11:11] <juliank> seb128: Dependencies says "aptdaemon 1.1.1+bzr982-0ubuntu32.3"
[11:12] <juliank> that's why I said, they both have aptdaemon installed and not set the variable, so how do they enter the codepath :D
[11:13] <seb128> juliank, you don't know if they have not set the variable, I think the ProcEnviron is only listed a selected set of variables
[11:13] <seb128> otherwise you would have things like XDG_CURRENT_DESKTOP in there
[11:13] <seb128> or XDG_DATA_DIRS
[11:13] <juliank> ah
[11:13] <seb128> juliank, that's the environment variable that sets the backend?
[11:14] <juliank> UPDATE_MANAGER_FORCE_BACKEND_SYNAPTIC=1
[11:14] <sil2100> I don't have context, what regression are we talking about?
[11:14] <juliank> I think making it "return" or "pass" instead of "raise NotImplementedError"
[11:14] <juliank> sil2100: We have two
[11:15] <seb128> sil2100, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/update-manager/+bug/1912718 is the one I'm concerned about for desktop
[11:15] <juliank> sil2100: A regression from bug 1902025 means kernels are not autoremoved anymore (bug 1902025), and another regression from the oem stuff causes crashes for users forcing synaptic backend
[11:15] <seb128> sil2100, I think it should be resolved for .2
[11:16] <juliank> I don't know what the right answer for bug 1902025 is
[11:16] <juliank> but certainly matching all kernel packages when we're trying to find meta packages isn't
[11:16] <juliank> Reverting that change is easy which means hwe kernels won't be scoped under Ubuntu base again, but meh
[11:17] <juliank> I don't know if we can just revert the upload
[11:18] <juliank> that'd be something to discuss with the OEM team, as I don't know what people agreed upon
[11:19] <sil2100> Well, I'd revert the change if anything if we know this particular change caused the regression
[11:19] <sil2100> Since backing off the package from focal-updates is really not that helpful
[11:19] <juliank> Laney can reproduce the other issue - the NotImplementedError, but I don't have luck so far
[11:20] <juliank> ah I need to be on an enabled system
[11:20] <sil2100> Reverting all the changes, well, as juliank mentioned, this upload has more changes than just this so it's troublesome
[11:20] <juliank> We can wait a couple hours and give bdmurray and jawnsmith a chance to fix it
[11:21] <juliank> the hwe kernel regression
[11:21] <juliank> but I'm not sure what the right solution is there
[11:23] <juliank> Let's see
[11:25] <juliank>   * UpdateManager/Dialogs.py: do not mention livepatch settings when the
[11:25] <juliank>     interface is not installed, thanks to Sebastien Bacher for the patch.
[11:25] <juliank>     (LP: #1807900)
[11:25] <juliank> ugh
[11:25] <juliank> extracting those individual changes and _not_ reverting them is hard
[11:26] <juliank> There is a ton of test changes that I can't trace to anything
[11:27] <Laney> make a branch this time
[11:27] <Laney> seriously
[11:27] <juliank> Laney: I'm mostly talking about hirsute, which has a branch :D
[11:27] <juliank> a bzr branch
[11:28] <juliank> and everything is in "release" merge commits
[11:29] <juliank> How do I revert a commit in bzr even?
[11:30] <juliank> As I said, fixing the SRUs is easy, it's not split over 20 commits there
[11:33] <juliank> I want to revert changes 2900.2.*
[11:34] <juliank> which come after 2901
[11:34] <Laney> I think you bzr merge the inverse of them, or something like that
[11:35] <Laney> juliank: https://git.launchpad.net/~laney/update-notifier/commit/?id=b6f277875d95130ab0b5bc9a5e4d26511f25a3d4 any comment? I didn't realise apt.Cache() could fail, but it can and this error has stopped phasing :>
[11:36] <juliank> No matter what I do, it also reverts the change in 2900
[11:37] <juliank> ugh it was a silent reformatting in a release commit
[11:38] <Laney> need to get better at vcs discipline ¬_¬
[11:39] <juliank> I think I got it now
[11:40] <juliank> Laney: Well that's the way bzr is supposed to be used and that's why git won :D
[11:41] <juliank> rebasing and producing clean commits rather than just have huge numbers of fixups in merges
[11:43] <juliank> running autopkgtest now for hirstue
[11:43] <sil2100> juliank: give me a sign once you have something for update-manager! I'm leaving it in your hands o/
[11:45] <juliank> sil2100: Please remove update-manager 20.10.2 from groovy, it only contained the broken change
[11:46] <juliank> sil2100: Or should I upload higher-versioned revert so people get update?
[11:51] <sil2100> juliank: I think it makes more sense to do a versioned revert, because this one has been around for quite a while now
[11:51] <juliank> sil2100: ack
[11:54] <juliank> focal is running autopkgtests now
[11:55] <Laney> look at my ping now >:|
[11:55] <juliank> though to be fair, I compared against the <IP_ADDRESS> upload I created (which was replaced)
[11:56] <juliank> huh
[11:56] <juliank> git-ubuntu is missing the 20.10.3 upload
[12:01] <rbasak> juliank: which package?
[12:01] <rbasak> update-notifier?
[12:01] <juliank> rbasak: update-manager
[12:02] <rbasak> It's in the queue. I can bump priority if you'd like?
[12:03] <rbasak> Queue size is 189 - mostly language-pack-*
[12:03] <juliank> rbasak: Nah, I worked around locally
[12:03] <juliank> :D
[12:03] <rbasak> OK!
[12:03] <juliank> sil2100: update-managers for focal, groovy ready
[12:04] <sil2100> juliank: thanks! Will look in a moment!
[12:39]  * Laney times out on feedback from juliank and uploads
[12:39] <juliank> Laney: I did not have any comment, all was good, fwiw
[12:39] <Laney> thanks, same effect then :>
[12:40] <Laney> silly bugs are silly
[12:47] <Laney> heh we have two different tagging schemes going on in update-notifier git
[12:57] <Laney> doko: just saw https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/PythonNoSemanticInterpositionSpeedup on LWN, have you/we considered doing the same?
[12:59] <doko> Laney: how would that help? the interpreter is not linked with the shared libpython
[13:00] <Laney> k thanks for the feedback
[13:02] <sil2100> 13:57 < sil2100> juliank: hey, do we have a bug for the commit_oem issues with the synaptic backend?
[13:03] <sil2100> 13:58 < sil2100> Since I'd like that linked in with a separate tracking bug if anything
[13:03] <sil2100> 14:00 < sil2100> The error tracker report doesn't seem to have a bug yet
[13:04] <Laibsch> Hello, long-time Ubuntu contributor here.  I've always had an interest in LTS and I'd like to become an LTS dev.  Alas, my wiki page says immutable.  Is this a common problem?  I thought a wiki page was still part of the application.
[13:04] <Laibsch> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RolfLeggewie
[13:04] <rbasak> Laibsch: try logging out and logging in again to the wiki please
[13:04] <Laibsch> Sure
[13:04] <Laibsch> Good to see some of the old names still around ;-)
[13:05] <doko> Laney: there's also #948802, now replied to
[13:05] <Laibsch> rbasak: It's still immutable.
[13:05] <Laibsch> Last touched in 2014.
[13:06] <rbasak> There were some spam issues in the wiki AFAIK, which meant that people had to be approved, which was basically done for every real person.
[13:06] <rbasak> Let me see if I can find that.
[13:07] <sil2100> juliank: I created https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/update-manager/+bug/1913732 via the error tracker
[13:08] <Laibsch> rbasak: FWIW, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperMembershipBoard/Agenda is immutable for me as well.
[13:08] <Laibsch> I'm logged in via Ubuntu One.
[13:09] <rbasak> Laibsch: sorry I can't find a reference. I think either your login is screwed up somehow (bug in wiki.ubuntu.com?) or you need to belong to some "I'm not a spammer" team. Could you ask in #canonical-sysadmin please?
[13:09] <Laibsch> ocf
[13:09] <Laibsch> ofc
[13:09] <Laibsch> thx
[13:09] <GunnarHj> Laibsch: You need to be a member of ~ubuntu-wiki-editors. Please see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WikiGuide#Contributing
[13:09] <rbasak> Ah, thanks.
[13:09] <rbasak> I was looking at my own memberships.  I believe the bar for membership of that team is low :)
[13:10] <cjwatson> I suspect that the actual permissions are the union of ~ubuntu-wiki-editors and a few other teams
[13:10] <GunnarHj> rbasak: As a dev you are a member of ubuntu-members, which also gives edit access to the wikis.
[13:10] <cjwatson> There we go
[13:10] <rbasak> That explains it. Thanks :)
[13:11] <sil2100> juliank: ok, added it to your changelog entry and re-uploaded
[13:11] <Laibsch> popey: You are listed as the admin of that team.  Maybe you can have a look and approve r0lf for wiki editing? (notice the zero instead of o)
[13:12] <popey> hello there
[13:12] <Laibsch> Hi, that was fast!
[13:12] <popey> Done!
[13:12] <Laibsch> I need wiki edit rights for https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RolfLeggewie
[13:12] <Laibsch> Thanks!
[13:13] <popey> Might need to logout / back in, and refresh the page
[13:13] <popey> Sacrificing chickens in chalk pentagrams is optional and may also help.
[13:13] <Laibsch> Yup, that worked.  Thanks a bunch.
[13:14] <cjwatson> Silly, chickens are for SCSI
[13:14] <cjwatson> Wiki needs goats
[13:24] <Laibsch> bdmurray: while we are at it, would you be so kind to renew my membership in https://launchpad.net/~bugsquad  (It's been pending for a while, I've been a member for about a decade or so, but dropped out last year)
[13:24] <Laibsch> https://launchpad.net/~r0lf is my LP handle
[13:41] <Laibsch> hggdh: you were the last one to renew my membership in November 2019.  Maybe you can pull the switch again this time for me for bugsquad?
[13:43] <sil2100> juliank, seb128: can one of you confirm that the reverted update-manager in focal-proposed fixes the regression?
[14:06] <juliank> sil2100: Sorry I somehow did not get notifications
[14:07] <sil2100> Laibsch: hey! We see that you have added your name to both the SRU developer and MOTU applications to the DMB Agenda
[14:07] <juliank> ah it seems i turned them off
[14:08] <sil2100> Laibsch: sadly this is not enough information for us to consider your applications - please read https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperMembershipBoard/ApplicationProcess and prepare all necessary steps
[14:08] <sil2100> Laibsch: thank you!
[14:09] <Laibsch> I'm in the process of doing that, just securing my slot
[14:10] <sil2100> Laibsch: there's not too many applicants usually, so just feel free to add your name once you have the base application and a date at which you'd want to apply
[14:11] <sil2100> For now I have removed your name from the agenda - but just re-add it with the application link and date
[14:12] <teward> Laibsch: as a DMB member I would rather you get your application in order first before you put it on the agenda, taking into account sil's statements :)
[14:12] <teward> sometimes getting the apps in line takes longer than you expect ;)
[14:13] <teward> *points at Eickmeyer as an example* took him 3 months to get his application in order :P
[14:13] <teward> ('course i use that as an extreme example - i know why there was a delay there)
[14:13] <rbasak> FWIW, I'd prefer to give some latitude here. If an application is ready soonish, I'm not bothered what order things happen in.
[14:15] <teward> *shrugs* guess i'm a stickler for getting ducks in order :P
[14:15] <rbasak> Getting an application in ends up annoyingly circular sometimes.
[14:15] <rbasak> I remember being asked by potential endorsers "What's the meeting date" "I don't know I'm supposed to get endorsements first" etc.
[14:16] <rbasak> So to avoid sending applicants around in circles, even if the formal process doesn't require that, I prefer just to let them sort out their ducks in whatever order they want :)
[14:30] <sil2100> Well, yes, but in this case there was no date and no application started
[14:47] <seb128> sil2100, sorry I can't easily do that today, I don't have a focal setup to trigger the bug handy and that's not a quiet day :-/
[15:39] <hggdh> Laibsch: done
[15:40] <Laibsch> hggdh: Thank you so much!!
[15:49] <sil2100> juliank: so will you be able to somehow easily verify LP: #1912718 today?
[16:00] <juliank> sil2100: gotta boot a focal vm and install some old kernels
[16:00] <juliank> mark them auto, then run update-manager
[16:00] <juliank> Of course, if somebody else already has a VM that would save some effort :D
[16:00] <juliank> Ugh guess I dcan just boot live disc, too
[16:18] <juliank> sil2100: I verified that bug, maybe Laney can check the other one? I fail getting OEM packages to appear in the first place atm
[16:18] <juliank> it's weird
[16:19] <Laney> you can just write oem-qemu-meta to $XDG_RUNTIME_DIR/ubuntu-drivers-oem.package-list probably
[16:20] <juliank> Laney: nvermind, my update-manager was too old :D
[16:20] <Laney> /o\
[16:23] <juliank> Laney: Oh well, this crashed too
[16:23] <juliank> ah
[16:23] <juliank> ugh
[16:23] <juliank> no synaptic installed
[16:23] <juliank> I should really drink some tea
[16:23] <Laney> hahahaha
[16:23] <Laney> having a good afternoon over there
[16:24] <Laney> I have no idea how much the synaptic backend actually works
[16:24] <juliank> I'm going to kill that backend in hirsute soon
[16:24] <juliank> Not sure if anything is happening, but oh well, it's not crashing
[16:26] <juliank> It doesn't seem to do anything
[16:28] <juliank> The one in release pocket works but throws an AttributeError
[16:31] <juliank> damn it
[16:32] <sil2100> uh
[16:34] <juliank> I alt+f4d gedit in the vm, but I actually alt+f4d the vm
[16:34] <juliank> Today is really not the day for this
[16:35] <juliank> This is going to remain broken one way or the other, we can't really fix it
[16:36] <juliank> as in, you see the oem packages but they do nothing
[16:40] <Laney> I guess you get the stuff next time
[16:40] <Laney> or is it really nothing, like they're in the list but not installed?
[16:41] <juliank> Laney: So current commit fixes the crash but never launches synaptic, gets stuck idling in main loop
[16:41] <juliank> Laney: Have to call action_done
[16:41] <juliank> from commit_oem
[16:41] <juliank> Then it basically ignores installing oem pacakges
[16:43] <Laney> oh I see, yeah, you have to move from PRE_INSTALL to INSTALL
[16:43] <Laney> annoying
[16:46] <juliank> Laney: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/8mrT3tfWjr/
[16:46] <juliank> Laney: copied from live focal system, so already pre-verified :D
[16:47] <juliank> uploaded
[16:51] <sil2100> New update-manager
[16:51] <sil2100> yay
[16:52] <juliank> sil2100: At least it's already verified, so we don't need more time than building it :D
[16:52] <sil2100> Weeeeeeeeell, the process requires testing the built binaries! Though uh, this is python so whatever
[16:52] <juliank> :D
[16:52] <juliank> It's close enough
[16:53] <juliank> Next day we do something like this, please let it be a day where I'm not half dead
[16:54] <juliank> Sleep tracking looks great, but it was a terrible night
[16:58] <juliank> Laney: don't we also need your new update-notifier for .2?
[16:59] <juliank> ah I guess it's more meh than the crashes in update-manager
[16:59] <juliank> :D
[16:59] <Laney> no particular opinion there, do you think you can get into that situation from an image?
[16:59] <Laney> i seem to remember that update-manager is somehow disabled there actually but that could be wrong
[16:59] <juliank> probably the notifications are turned off
[17:00] <juliank> Anyhow I think I'm done for now, and will hop on Zwift to get some 20km virtual cycling in - 3 days left in this month and 54 kilometers left to reach my 400 km goal
[17:01] <juliank> Also need to find free space in the kitchen to actually make dinner :/
[17:01] <sil2100> Ok, the action_done stuff looks legit, accepting
[17:01] <juliank> :)
[17:01] <sil2100> plz mark verified once it's all built and shiny
[17:02] <juliank> I'm out for like 1-2 hours with a break in the middle I can check in
[17:02] <juliank> but it's a busy evening :/
[17:13] <bdmurray> Laney: Are you good with https://code.launchpad.net/~jawn-smith/ubiquity/+git/ubiquity/+merge/396616 now?
[17:16] <Laney> sure, I can approve
[17:16] <bdmurray> I can do the uploads just wanted to make sure you are happy with it.
[17:17] <Laney> I dunno what prompted the latest 'no system bus is present' stuff though, the desktop will not work at all if that's the case
[17:17] <Laney> but surrrrrrrrrrre
[17:17] <bdmurray> It failed to build
[17:18] <Laney> commented with a suggestion to squash it all and approved, cheers
[17:19] <bdmurray> thanks!
[18:41] <jdstrand> xnox: yeah, that's what I was going to resort to depending on what rick_h said (not sure how this is expected to work)
[20:14] <juliank> bloody alt+f4 hell in vms
[20:20] <juliank> sil2100: verified the bugs, actually reverified them properly :D
[20:21] <sil2100> \o/
[20:22] <juliank> it took a bit longer than planned, seems I was not fast enough making dinner or post-ride finish up :/
[20:22] <sil2100> juliank: thank you! Will release soonish, even though it's Friday - but uh, better this than the regression
[20:22] <sil2100> No worries, I also went AFK for some exercise earlier ;)
[20:22] <juliank> woohoo - exercise :)