[00:11] <ElbowCrusade> Garfield's Foursome with Nermal, Edna Skilton, and Jean Pierre Manikariza
[00:11] <ElbowCrusade> Garfield, Nermal, Edna Skilton, and Jean Pierre Manikariza have an orgy over lasagna!
[00:11] <ElbowCrusade> https://justpaste.it/Garfield-Foursome-Nermal-Skilton
[01:26] <tiburondell> hola
[01:44] <mybalzitch> no u in ubuntu?
[02:02] <anyidea> hello
[02:03] <cosmicwonder> hello anyidea
[02:04] <anyidea> no lot of people here, means ubuntu has very gew issues haha
[02:04] <cosmicwonder> there's currently 1054 people on the channel but it's not very active.
[02:04] <cosmicwonder> but it can get pretty active
[02:07] <anyidea> ohhh lol i only see 4 users
[02:07] <anyidea> loool
[02:07] <cosmicwonder> what network are you on? i am on Libera
[02:07] <leftyfb> !chat | anyidea
[02:08] <anyidea> lol, a mistake
[02:08] <anyidea> 4 users, then ----------------- user ....
[02:08] <anyidea> and then, hidden in list, hundred of users more
[02:08] <anyidea> xd
[02:11] <anyidea> have someone try a CWUWI corebook pc? is it unix ready? ubuntu capable?
[02:12] <anyidea> what about intel iris plus graphic card in Ubuntu?
[02:12] <anyidea> did someone has positive experience with that?
[02:13] <anyidea> CHUWI* pc and notebooks brands
[02:13] <cosmicwonder> i haven't even ever heard of the brand, but someone else may have
[02:13] <anyidea> I'll share specs
[02:14] <cosmicwonder> you could ask on #linux too, there will probably be someone there who has heard of it
[02:14] <anyidea> ok sir
[02:15] <anyidea> yesterday my pc exploded :-(
[02:15] <cosmicwonder> exploded for real or did it just go out?
[02:16] <anyidea> real
[02:16] <cosmicwonder> oh dude
[02:17] <leftyfb> !chat | anyidea
[02:18] <anyidea> before exploding i get some software bugs
[02:18] <cosmicwonder> sad
[02:19] <cosmicwonder> i hope you had everything from your hard drive or SSD backed up
[02:19] <anyidea> using apt to install a regular software .... suddenly i don't know why it started to remove 600Mb of core programs .....
[02:20] <cosmicwonder> you may have had a virus or malware
[02:20] <leftyfb> anyidea: define "regular software"
[02:20] <leftyfb> cosmicwonder: unlikely
[02:20] <anyidea> ... ubuntu studio suddenly get converted to a regular ubuntu login screen, with virtual keyboard on screen, not possible to login again ..
[02:20] <anyidea>  then, batt explodes
[02:20] <cosmicwonder> y'know, it's possible
[02:20] <cosmicwonder> sounds like malware
[02:21] <cosmicwonder> even after you entered your password did it not let you login?
[02:21] <leftyfb> sounds like a cooling/battery issue
[02:21] <anyidea> yep
[02:21] <cosmicwonder> yeah but the core program removal, i dunno...
[02:21] <anyidea> dbus powerd malware
[02:21] <leftyfb> anyidea: do you still have this OS running and need to troubleshoot it?
[02:22] <anyidea> i bought a new pc
[02:22] <anyidea> fuck to the risky of malware ssd
[02:22] <leftyfb> anyidea: ok, then there's no point in speculating. Let us know if you need help with your current ubuntu install. If you would just like to chat, feel free to /join #ubuntu-offtopic to chat
[02:22] <anyidea> i don't want to repair nothing.
[02:22] <leftyfb> !language | anyidea
[02:23] <anyidea> oh ok offtopic, thanks
[02:24] <Beladona> Does ubuntu installer support raid at time of install ?
[02:24] <leftyfb> Beladona: the server installer does
[02:25] <leftyfb> I haven't tried the new 23.10 installer so I don't know about that
[02:25] <leftyfb> desktop^
[02:25] <cosmicwonder> yea, server does support raid, although i don't think it's Intel raid
[02:26] <leftyfb> if by "Intel raid" you mean the Intel Rapid Storage stuff, that's complete garbage and not real raid and not really supported in linux
[02:27] <Beladona> leftyfb:  can you show me a screenshot or where / how can I confirm?
[02:27] <Beladona> leftyfb: whats the wizard / screen name?
[02:28] <leftyfb> Beladona: https://ubuntu.com/server/docs/install/storage
[02:30] <cosmicwonder> isn't the ubuntu RAID like some crappy software raid though?
[02:30] <cosmicwonder> or it used to be?
[02:31] <ravage> ubuntu is software. so what else do you expect? 3D print you a raid controller?
[02:31] <cosmicwonder> No
[02:31] <leftyfb> cosmicwonder: it's either hardware RAID (which has nothing to do with the OS), software RAID, or fake raid (Intel Rapid Storage Technology/garbage)
[02:31] <cosmicwonder> ok whatever
[03:03] <blackdrag0n> hello
[03:03] <Kadigan> Hm. I haven't had any data loss with either mdraid nor ZFS *so far*. And yes, Intel's "solution" seems to be complete garbage.
[03:03] <matsaman> blackdrag0n: 'lo
[03:04] <matsaman> Kadigan: 'cause you keep backups
[03:04] <blackdrag0n> hi i have a most perplexing issue with the network on my new system
[03:04] <Kadigan> matsaman: that's beside the point. I have had no need to use them.
[03:04] <matsaman> no need to use backups, I love it =P
[03:05] <blackdrag0n> any nix network engineers in here that would care to hear me out on this issue?
[03:05] <Kadigan> True, true. :) But what I mean is: so far, I've found software RAID solutions (not yours, Intel) to be perfectly reliable on small arrays.
[03:05] <Kadigan> blackdrag0n: don't ask to ask
[03:06] <blackdrag0n> half the time everyone is afk im not asking to ask im just seeing if anyone is around to talk to
[03:07] <Kadigan> Well, for me, I wouldn't consider myself a network engineer, much less a nix one, but I might know the solution. Or not. It really depends on the question.
[03:07] <blackdrag0n> its a wired connection i created three installs back that somehow persists beyond drive wiping
[03:07] <blackdrag0n> every time i restart it wants me to reauth the wifi connection
[03:08] <blackdrag0n> when i try to remove it i get error deactivating
[03:08] <blackdrag0n> if i logon as root and attempt to remove it still persists
[03:09] <Kadigan> I'm confused. You said "wired", but you're talking about WiFi. Can you explain how these fit together?
[03:09] <blackdrag0n> only weird thing is when i install linux mint it doesn't show up only when i install kubuntu
[03:09] <Beladona> leftyfb:  thanks
[03:09] <blackdrag0n> for some reason it won't auto connect
[03:09] <blackdrag0n> for the wifi
[03:10] <blackdrag0n> if i secure erase the M.2 drives in the BIOS how is this custom connection still persisting across installs
[03:11] <Kadigan> Let me see if I understand this: if you wipe the disk, reinstall the OS from scratch - it will attempt to reauth with a WiFi AP it was not told to connect to?
[03:11] <Kadigan> (at least not in this particular instance of the OS install)
[03:12] <blackdrag0n> no its selected to auto connect and i put in the passphrase only it will not use it.
[03:12] <blackdrag0n> makes me manually put in the passphrase every restart
[03:12] <Kadigan> Is it possible to connect to it, if you input the password directly?
[03:13] <blackdrag0n> there's only 2 physical ports yet the third custom keeps persisting as well
[03:13] <blackdrag0n> yes it connects no problem
[03:14] <Kadigan> I'm confused again. We're discussing a WiFi connection, but talking about some sort of physical ports? Can you please elaborate?
[03:14] <blackdrag0n> mint doesn't do this
[03:14] <blackdrag0n> i took a screenshot of the network manager if you like
[03:14] <Kadigan> Please.
[03:15] <Kadigan> As for the WiFi, is it possible that you have some "interesting" characters in the password, that work when inputted directly - but might fail being saved for re-use?
[03:15] <blackdrag0n> no i keep it simple yet robust
[03:15] <blackdrag0n> its been a while for me on irc how can i send the screenshot to the channel
[03:16] <Kadigan> You have to upload it to some service, and post the link.
[03:16] <Kadigan> Is it possible that the BIOS/UEFI itself is keeping this somewhere? I mean, if it persists - it has to be kept *somewhere*, and persistent store came around with secure boot IIRC.
[03:17] <blackdrag0n> that was my take as well like what is holding the network memory across installs
[03:17] <Kadigan> The reason for Ubuntu doing this but no other flavour, might be down to Ubuntu having this implemented, or simply it using Ubuntu keys.
[03:17] <blackdrag0n> mint doesn't do it though or doesn't show it
[03:18] <blackdrag0n> only kubuntu
[03:18] <blackdrag0n> is there an onboard memory to the NIC?
[03:18] <Kadigan> Not like that, unless I'm wildly out of touch.
[03:18] <Kadigan> My bet would be to see if there's anything in the boot log hinting at retrieving info from BIOS/UEFI persistent store, perhaps.
[03:19] <blackdrag0n> that sounds feasible
[03:19] <Kadigan> Though I couldn't tell you what to look for exactly.
[03:19] <blackdrag0n> threr's two hardware ports on this MB so thats all there should be only I find three
[03:20] <Kadigan> What ports are you seeing?
[03:20] <Kadigan> Can you list them for me?
[03:21] <blackdrag0n> two generic with labels "wired connection 1" and "wired connection 2" and "lo" listed under wired ethernet
[03:21] <blackdrag0n> "lo" is connected as status that's strange
[03:21] <blackdrag0n> below that is the WiFi
[03:21] <Kadigan> Uhh... is "lo" the odd thing you're seeing?
[03:22] <blackdrag0n> yes
[03:22] <Kadigan> Ah. So I *can* answer that one.
[03:22] <blackdrag0n> general config fields are blank
[03:22] <Kadigan> Okay. For starters, these are not "ports" but "interfaces".
[03:22] <Kadigan> Not the same thing.
[03:22] <Kadigan> An interface MAY map to hardware, but it doesn't have to.
[03:22] <blackdrag0n> well ports on the board interfaces for the software pardon
[03:22] <Kadigan> Any sort of virtual bridges, VPN interfaces and such will appear there as well.
[03:23] <Kadigan> Now, I'm puzzled why Mint doesn't show "lo",
[03:23] <Kadigan> because it MUST exist on anything that uses IP.
[03:23] <blackdrag0n> i have no vpn connected yet this is a brand new install of kubuntu
[03:23] <Kadigan> "lo" is the loopback interface, responsible for handling the 127/8 address space
[03:23] <Kadigan> (in IPv4)
[03:23] <blackdrag0n> maybe and i renamed it 6 installs back then
[03:24] <Kadigan> No, mine is "lo" as well (Debian).
[03:24] <blackdrag0n> still doesn't explain how it persists
[03:24] <blackdrag0n> oh
[03:24] <Kadigan> It persists because it's part of the IP protocol.
[03:24] <Kadigan> It MUST exist.
[03:24] <blackdrag0n> right they all have to have a loopback
[03:24] <Kadigan> Mint is likely simply not showing it. Why, I have no idea.
[03:24] <blackdrag0n> ok well that simplifies things
[03:25] <blackdrag0n> then i guess my only issue then is why the damn wifi won't autoconnect and forces me to manually auth every boot
[03:25] <Kadigan> Also, "wired connection 1" is a "friendly name", I would wager. The interfaces likely have actual IDs, like enp0s4 or so.
[03:25] <Kadigan> (and among them, "lo" doesn't look so strange)
[03:25] <blackdrag0n> i concur
[03:26] <Kadigan> So the strange wired connection is explained. Leaves only the WiFi issue, which - to me - seems like a failure to save the password for future re-use.
[03:26] <Kadigan> Try looking for solutions to kubuntu not saving the WiFi password.
[03:30] <blackdrag0n> netplan debug seems interesting it says the config is valid
[03:30] <Kadigan> Or saving it incorrectly, perhaps - it wouldn't be the first time a character is mishandled or missaved. I have an LTE modem that offers you the option to change the admin password, but it silently truncates it to 16 characters! It will, however, HAPPILY accept a longer string... and report an invalid match. :D
[03:30] <blackdrag0n> that's rotten lol
[03:31] <Kadigan> Just saying - we're all only human, after all.
[03:31] <blackdrag0n> indeed
[03:31] <Kadigan> For instance, I avoid the backslash in my passwords for this very reason.
[03:31] <blackdrag0n> i've ran into a similar problem as well in a different context though
[03:31] <Kadigan> You never know if there's a shell script somewhere in the chain that'll take that character as a control character.
[03:32] <blackdrag0n> I concur i avoid certain chars as well in passphrases
[03:33] <Kadigan> Still. There's a very simple way to test if the password is the issue. Change it on the AP to something that cannot (in theory...) be misrepresented.
[03:33] <Kadigan> Temporarily, of course.
[03:33] <Kadigan> If the issue goes away, you'll know you're barking up the right tree.
[03:34] <Kadigan> A simple enough test, at any rate, easy to revert, and will eliminate a whole class of issues.
[03:34] <blackdrag0n> i've recently nuked the AP so it's a fresh start with a new passphrase as well i'm almost certain this is an kubuntu bug
[03:34] <blackdrag0n> or kernel 6.5 bug maybe
[03:35] <Kadigan> Still, changing it to "aaaabbbbcccc" for a tick shouldn't be too much trouble. We're only looking for a reaction, after all.
[03:35] <blackdrag0n> okie dokie i'll check it... stand by
[03:36] <Kadigan> I think we can reasonably assume that there should be no issue with either a) storing or b) recalling that string. If it fails as well, you'll probably want to start looking into when and how the password is transmitted instead.
[03:37] <Kadigan> It could also be a quirk of the AP in question - if it does anything differently (like some rare variation of SSID/BSSID transmission), kubuntu may interpret that as a failure instead, despite everything being technically a-OK.
[03:38] <Kadigan> Entering the password manually may also retrigger something that isn't retriggered when it attempts to connect automatically.
[03:38] <blackdrag0n> rebooting brb
[03:38] <blackdrag0n> we'll see if it takes
[03:38] <Kadigan> Fingers crossed.
[03:38] <blackdrag0n> i know right!
[03:40] <blackdrag0n> big fat goose eggs my friend
[03:41] <blackdrag0n> and it's set to connect automatically with priority 0
[03:42] <Kadigan> So, I understand it failed in the same way?
[03:42] <Kadigan> (I am not familiar with "goose eggs")
[03:42] <blackdrag0n> yep wants me to reauth the wifi password every boot
[03:42] <blackdrag0n> double zeroes
[03:43] <Kadigan> Okay. So, sadly, the "simple" solution is not it.
[03:43] <blackdrag0n> Occam would be disappointed ha ha
[03:43] <Kadigan> Actually, I think he'd be proud. This is still data.
[03:43] <Kadigan> Okay. Can you spin up some other AP to test against?
[03:43] <blackdrag0n> true that
[03:44] <Kadigan> Something unrelated to the AP you're having trouble with, at least.
[03:44] <blackdrag0n> i have another router yes
[03:44] <Kadigan> I would like to know if it affects all APs, or just this one.
[03:44] <Kadigan> It would be a big issue if it affected all of them, but I imagine it would've been caught, so the situation is very specific.
[03:46] <blackdrag0n> they're both asus routers
[03:46] <Kadigan> Vanilla fw?
[03:47] <Kadigan> Also, consider options such as phone APs.
[03:48] <blackdrag0n> hotspot?
[03:48] <Kadigan> Yeah. It's an option.
[03:48] <blackdrag0n> i have ufw running
[03:48] <Kadigan> No, I meant - firmware.
[03:48] <blackdrag0n> oh
[03:48] <blackdrag0n> should be the latest and i just updated the BIOS on the MB recently as well
[03:48] <Kadigan> Also - if you're using third-party firmware like dd-wrt, consider that there's a radio option for short/regular preamble. SOME very specific WiFi cards MAY have issues with short preambles. Disabling that option may fix the issue.
[03:49] <blackdrag0n> its stock fw on the primary AP
[03:49] <Kadigan> Ah, so vanilla after all.
[03:49] <blackdrag0n> its not my ap or i would be running dd'wrt
[03:49] <blackdrag0n> the second one i'm testing now is my ap
[03:50] <blackdrag0n> only dd wrt doesn't have fw for my ap
[03:50] <Kadigan> Model?
[03:50] <Kadigan> (out of curiosity)
[03:51] <blackdrag0n> mine?
[03:51] <blackdrag0n> asus rog ax11000
[03:51] <blackdrag0n> did it send the last two comments?
[03:54] <Kadigan> I don't know. I saw the info on Asus ROG AX11000. Also, AsusWRT-Merlin supports it, I think. So, that's an option.
[03:59] <blackdrag0n> so yea it does not like that router it was laggin my connection to the second ap something fierce
[03:59] <blackdrag0n> it'
[04:00] <blackdrag0n> s an Asus ROG AX 11000
[04:00] <Kadigan> Okay, but does it retain the WiFi password correctly?
[04:01] <blackdrag0n> it wouldn't even connect after the initial setup
[04:01] <blackdrag0n> i got circle of death'd by the network manager then it gave up and reverted to the other ap
[04:02] <blackdrag0n> short of swapping ap's out completely
[04:03] <blackdrag0n> it's just sent me a notification that... the primary ap couldn't aquire the secrets "password"
[04:03] <Kadigan> Hm. Have you considered that the issue might be in your WiFi client hardware?
[04:04] <Kadigan> I try to shy away from calling it as "hardware failure", or "driver failure" for that matter... but I assume other clients have no issues with either AP?
[04:04] <blackdrag0n> previously i had both ap's running no issues, i mean i'm not saying it's impossible just...
[04:05] <blackdrag0n> i mean just 3 hours ago i was running linux mint 21.2 edge no problemo
[04:05] <Kadigan> I would disable the WiFi and use a USB dongle to test. Also, if this WiFi device is on-board and requires external antennas, I would verify the antennas are attached properly.
[04:05] <Kadigan> If you recently cleaned or moved it, or disassembled it in any way - check the connections.
[04:06] <blackdrag0n> i could reverse the wires it's hard to say they aren't marked "thanks ASUS"
[04:06] <Kadigan> Also, devices do die sometimes. You may find previous reports if you look for board/device model + WiFi issues.
[04:07] <blackdrag0n> i am wondering if that BIOS update is hot garbage i'm considering reverting software versions
[04:07] <Kadigan> I had an M.2 WiFi card just up and die out of the blue, for example. No warning, it just ceased existence.
[04:08] <blackdrag0n> M.2 wifi that sounds cool never heard of an M.2 wifi card
[04:08] <Kadigan> Well, M.2 is just the interface form factor. It was mini-PCIe.
[04:08] <blackdrag0n> right right
[04:08] <blackdrag0n> seems the industry keeps marching on
[04:08] <Kadigan> https://shorturl.at/gxSU6 something like this
[04:09] <blackdrag0n> snazzy
[04:09] <Kadigan> They're used in laptops and embed devices.
[04:09] <blackdrag0n> second line there is probably why as well... Made in China
[04:09] <Kadigan> But this was still a feat, since it was made to milspec. Or, well, automotive.
[04:10] <Kadigan> ANyway.
[04:10] <Kadigan> Probably lowest-cost still. :D
[04:10] <blackdrag0n> never trust the cheapest bidder though
[04:10] <blackdrag0n> they sometimes take shortcuts
[04:11] <Kadigan> I don't actually know if they whipped up their own, got a decent one, or just slapped on the cheapest one because "well it needs WiFi". :D
[04:11] <blackdrag0n> i'm not at a hardware failure just yet as other OS's work flawlessly
[04:11] <Kadigan> Not that I'm complaining too loudly, since it gave me the option to use that connection for an NVMe. :D
[04:11] <blackdrag0n> true that
[04:12] <blackdrag0n> if that's your only expansion slot
[04:13] <Kadigan> https://www.mouser.com/images/marketingid/2019/img/127752815.png kinda sorta :D
[04:13] <blackdrag0n> they've come so far though from my first computer ( 8086 8 Mhz turbo w/ math coprocessor 640K conventional ram CGA monitor )
[04:14] <blackdrag0n> nice lil computer board what chip?
[04:14] <blackdrag0n> rasberry PI?
[04:15] <Kadigan> Oh yeah, no disputing that. Don't let it fool you - that thing has a quad Cortex-A7 with 4 GB of RAM. :D
[04:15] <blackdrag0n> blows my first computer away fur sho
[04:15] <Kadigan> Same, but to be fair my microwave oven probably does too xD
[04:15] <Kadigan> (Atari 65XE, some 1.7 MHz of "clock" :D)
[04:15] <blackdrag0n> lmao probably
[04:16] <blackdrag0n> oh nice Atari's were bomb back in the day
[04:16] <Kadigan> But no, it's an NXP LS1046A.
[04:17] <blackdrag0n> ARM is nice for mini's
[04:17] <blackdrag0n> peepin the data sheet now
[04:18] <tomreyn_> before you look into hardware, look into whether this (having to reauth to wireless after boot) can be an issue with either wireless drivers (out of tree module?) or some issue with password storage / authentication. check which wireless chipset is in use and whether that's well supported or might need a different driver. check what's being logged (journalctl -b) about the wireless connection. maybe disable power saving on the wireless
[04:18] <tomreyn_> interface (but this would only be relevant if the connection drops out of nothing, not just requires login at boot)
[04:18] <blackdrag0n> still... I gotta thank you for being a sounding board for me with the network, I appreciate you and your help
[04:18] <tomreyn_> (and please have any non support chat in #ubuntu-offtopic or elsewhere, please)
[04:19] <Kadigan> Have you tested your WiFi client against say, a hotspot? Might give more info. And I would also recommend trying a USB device of some sort as well.
[04:19] <Kadigan> tomreyn_: yeah, sorry :D
[04:19] <tomreyn_> :) thanks
[04:19] <Kadigan> blackdrag0n: that was my intent; if I can't solve it, I might at least find out as much as I can for someone that can
[04:19] <blackdrag0n> well mint uses an older kernel and kubuntu uses usually a bleeding edge version
[04:21] <tomreyn> lsusb | nc termbin.com 9999    may be a good start (while the system is online) to determine the wireless chipset
[04:21] <blackdrag0n> okie one sec
[04:21] <tomreyn> got to run, though, sorry, good luck!
[04:22] <Kadigan> `lspci` if laptop? If nothing comes up USB anyway.
[04:22] <Kadigan> I know Macs use an internal USB hub, anyway.
[04:23] <blackdrag0n> i see the bluetooth but not the wifi
[04:24] <blackdrag0n> so mint uses 6.2.033 kernel and kubuntu is using 6.5.10
[04:28] <Kadigan> I won't be of much help there, unfortunately. I consider myself good with rapid issue tracing, but kernels are decidedly NOT my forte. :D
[04:29] <blackdrag0n> well all the drivers on nix systems are in the kernel's
[04:29] <Kadigan> Not all, surely? Unless FUSE has a kernel component to it.
[04:29] <Kadigan> But anyway.
[04:29] <blackdrag0n> very interesting..
[04:30] <blackdrag0n> I'm a hardware girl anyways so
[04:32] <blackdrag0n> I like to build em
[04:32] <Kadigan> As in PCs? Or hardware like devkits/devboards, board design etc.?
[04:33] <Kadigan> Anyway. So `lsusb` showed no WiFi devices in attendance? What does `lspci` say then?
[04:33] <blackdrag0n> mostly pc's but i'm getting into devboards and such looking into 3d printing prototype boards
[04:35] <blackdrag0n> 07:00.0 Network controller: Intel Corporation Wi-Fi 6 AX200 (rev 1a)
[04:35] <Kadigan> RasPIs are a good starting point. Down the line I'd recommend something like small STM32 (for honing C skills and pcb design), maybe a NanoPI or really anything that relies on Yocto (for Yocto skills).
[04:35] <blackdrag0n> "stop your grinnin and drop your linen, I found it!"
[04:36] <matsaman> fixed it?
[04:36] <blackdrag0n> no i just found the wifi entry
[04:36] <blackdrag0n> it was a movie quote
[04:37] <Kadigan> Now you can do some targetted google queries on that and kubuntu.
[04:37] <blackdrag0n> true question is why only kubuntu
[04:37] <blackdrag0n> and how in Hades does it cross installs after full wipes
[04:37] <Kadigan> Alphabetically or by submission order? :D
[04:38] <blackdrag0n> lost me on that one
[04:38] <blackdrag0n> hey you are pretty cool, mind if i add you as a friend?\
[04:38] <Kadigan> It could be anything, really - from a bad driver, through some incompatibility in the network manager, to some quirk in kubuntu vs the AX200.
[04:38] <matsaman> blackdrag0n: I mean it probably doesn't cross them
[04:39] <matsaman> you said it wasn't an issue on KDE?
[04:39] <blackdrag0n> what are you thinking matsaman?
[04:39] <blackdrag0n> no its not an issue in mint its an issue for kubuntu everytime
[04:39] <matsaman> using network-manager?
[04:39] <matsaman> I think they would have entirely different frontends, KDE & GNOME/MATE
[04:39] <blackdrag0n> yes
[04:40] <matsaman> so it's probably down to the specific network-manager frontend
[04:40] <blackdrag0n> that's what I think as well so the commonality is the ubuntu base me thinks
[04:40] <matsaman> did you try using the GNOME/MATE nm-applet or whatever, instead of KDE's?
[04:40] <matsaman> to confirm
[04:40] <blackdrag0n> interesting idea
[04:44] <blackdrag0n> i wonder if my disabling of ipv6 in ufw is interfering
[04:44] <blackdrag0n> i have ports 22 and 23 diabled
[04:44] <blackdrag0n> disabled
[04:45] <Kadigan> blackdrag0n: also, I wasn't aware IRC *had* friend lists though. :) But I don't mind in the least.
[04:45] <Kadigan> Hm, ufw should not be affecting any of this, since any IP is encapsulated; WiFi comes first
[04:46] <Kadigan> this is message-level
[04:47] <blackdrag0n> right right that makes sense
[05:06] <blackdrag0n> I did turn off the kde wallet in settings when i first installed it, i'll have to check that to see if they are related
[05:51] <student13> hi niga
[05:52] <lotuspsychje> lets keep this channel family friendly student13
[05:53] <student13> ok
[07:21] <Mark> Heya
[07:21] <Mark> whos online
[09:33] <MayDou> Salve salve
[09:33] <MayDou> Algum brasileiro on a essa hora?
[09:34] <MayDou> Alooo?
[11:50] <john2003cpht> Is it posable to pin something to the dash and have it stay in my apps
[12:23] <lotuspsychj3> john2003cpht: do you mean pin an icon to dash as favorite?
[12:56] <fweht> when i press print, the gnome screenshot "window" (or overlay) has a "take screenshot" button, which does nothing, and a capture button (large circle in the middle) which takes a screenshot (instead of screen capture).  why is that?
[12:58] <blackdrag0n> hey y'all, good morning! Say anyone have an issue with Kubuntu and desktop icons not working?
[13:05] <webchat9> hi
[13:05] <blackdrag0n> hey
[13:05] <webchat9> ciao
[13:05] <blackdrag0n> hi bye huh
[13:06] <webchat9> Hi, I'm here to report a problem regarding Ubuntu 23.10
[13:07] <blackdrag0n> base ubuntu?
[13:08] <webchat9> Mantic Minotaur
[13:08] <blackdrag0n> what distro?
[13:08] <webchat9> ubuntu desktop
[13:08] <blackdrag0n> base ubuntu it is then
[13:08] <blackdrag0n> been having my share of issues with 23.10 as well
[13:09] <blackdrag0n> only i'm on kubuntu 23.10
[13:09] <webchat9> Basically I've been trying to install Ubuntu 23.10 for an hour but the installer crashes, Help me please
[13:10] <blackdrag0n> did you verify the .iso before putting it on a usb or cd?
[13:10] <webchat9> virtual machine (ISO)
[13:11] <blackdrag0n> first need to make sure your image is secure and not corrupted
[13:11] <blackdrag0n> verify it using the hash on the primary site
[13:13] <webchat9> the iso is checked
[13:13] <webchat9> no problem
[13:14] <blackdrag0n> what happens when it crashes any errors specifically?
[13:14] <webchat9> it doesn't crash, the operating system freezes.
[13:15] <blackdrag0n> what OS are we talking about here?
[13:15] <webchat9> Ubuntu 23.10 (Mantic Minotaur)
[13:16] <blackdrag0n> is this before the os is installed?
[13:16] <blackdrag0n> like the live is freezing?
[13:17] <webchat9> yes
[13:17] <blackdrag0n> what medium is the image installed on?
[13:18] <webchat9> ISO Virtual Machine
[13:18] <blackdrag0n> what's the host OS?
[13:19] <webchat9> Windows 10 22H2 (19045.3570)
[13:19] <blackdrag0n> ok now we're cooking with gas
[13:19] <blackdrag0n> how much ram do you have
[13:19] <blackdrag0n> and what CPU?
[13:20] <webchat9> 8gb RAM
[13:20] <webchat9> intel i7-3770s
[13:20] <blackdrag0n> oh wow thats entirely too low for a VM
[13:20] <blackdrag0n> ddr4?
[13:21] <blackdrag0n> this a laptop?
[13:22] <webchat9> 8GB of RAM is what is dedicated for the Ubuntu VM.
[13:22] <blackdrag0n> whats your total ram in the system
[13:22] <webchat9> 16GB
[13:22] <blackdrag0n> ok that's diff, you using vmware or virtualbox?
[13:23] <webchat9> vmware workstation pro 17
[13:23] <blackdrag0n> have you run any other VM's on this system?
[13:23] <webchat9> no
[13:24] <blackdrag0n> is this a laptop?
[13:24] <webchat9> no is PC
[13:24] <blackdrag0n> gotcha
[13:25] <blackdrag0n> at what point in the install is it freezing
[13:27] <webchat9> after copying the files
[13:27] <blackdrag0n> so it lets you through partitioning and all that jazz just to freeze at the very end, what percentage does it usually complete?
[13:28] <webchat9> 48%
[13:28] <blackdrag0n> have you just let it sit to see if is just being pokey?
[13:30] <blackdrag0n> do you run the task manager while installing on the VM it can show you I/O writes to see if the chart just falls out or not
[13:30] <blackdrag0n> what kinda of drive are you using for that install?
[13:33] <blackdrag0n> that join was a lil wonky did you see that!
[13:34] <blackdrag0n> trippy
[13:35] <blackdrag0n> have you tried another .iso for a different distro
[13:36] <blackdrag0n> he left ha ha i been talkin to my damn self lol
[14:04] <calmar> hi, any hints how to get a python2.7 script running on mantic? Since mantic does not seem to have any python2-packages
[14:09] <blackdrag0n> not sure i'm new to python i was under the impression python 3 was the new standard
[14:16] <lotuspsychj3> blackdrag0n: you can find packageversions of the ubuntu releases in their !mantic releasenotes
[14:16] <lotuspsychj3> !mantic
[14:20] <blackdrag0n> its bleeding edge though kernel 6.5
[14:21] <blackdrag0n> sanks lotus
[14:21] <calmar> yeah, I downloaded python2.7 .. compiled it, and I can run my script via the build binary there.  Thanks all
[14:33] <leftyfb> calmar: python2 has been deprecated for almost 4 years now. Time to fix the python script to be supported with python3
[14:34] <de-facto> what is this? "problems with a system app" and then asking for my password?! was my system compromised by some sort of malicious software trying to get my password? https://imgur.com/a/OjawHJV
[14:35] <leftyfb> de-facto: no, it's a crash and it needs admin privs to gather the info to send to launchpad to report the issue. It's not required, you can just close it if you like
[14:35] <de-facto> this is the worst way imaginable of doing this
[14:35] <leftyfb> de-facto: look in /var/crash for crash files which might give you an idea of what crashed
[14:36] <de-facto> i dont EVER want any unexplained password queries popping up on me out of nowhere
[14:36] <de-facto> it could be any software trying to gain root privs
[14:36] <leftyfb> !bug | de-facto
[14:37] <oerheks> the crash report message is pretty clear, ??
[14:37] <lotuspsychj3> de-facto: you did get a bug report gui option first, not a password without choice
[14:37] <leftyfb> oerheks: to be fair, nothing is really indicating what is requesting the authentication
[14:37] <de-facto> its not clear at all, it could be any software asking for my password
[14:38] <de-facto> i made screenshots because of this
[14:38] <leftyfb> de-facto: feel free to file a bug on it
[14:43] <de-facto> why cant that crash report thingy get root on itself? this really is very malicious, asking for passwords
[14:44] <lotuspsychj3> de-facto: your settings/privacy you can choose bugs auto/manual
[14:45] <oerheks> to view the report online;   xdg-open https://errors.ubuntu.com/user/`sudo cat /var/lib/whoopsie/whoopsie-id`
[14:46] <de-facto> how can i deinstall this completely?
[14:46] <Bombo> hi
[14:46] <de-facto> anything whoopsie i assume
[14:47] <de-facto> dangit it would deinstall my whole desktop with it
[14:47] <de-facto> are there some dummy whoopsie packages?
[14:47] <lotuspsychj3> de-facto: you never want to be notified of future bugs on your system any longer?
[14:48] <de-facto> i want this software no longer on my disk if possible
[14:48] <Bombo> anyone else noticed vlc crashing when seeking after some recent upgrades? (ubuntu focal)
[14:49] <lotuspsychj3> Bombo: we recently had someone from the volunteers mention vlc crash on pro
[14:49] <Bombo> '[h264 @ 0x7f0f3cc197c0] Failed setup for format vaapi_vld: hwaccel initialisation returned error.' and '[00007f0f3cc12320] avcodec decoder: Using OpenGL/VAAPI backend for VDPAU for hardware decoding' 'Assertion !p->parent->stash_hwaccel failed at src/libavcodec/pthread_frame.c:638'
[14:49] <lotuspsychj3> ravage: ^
[14:49] <oerheks> yesterday a fresh VLC snap came out..
[14:49] <Bombo> lotuspsychj3: when seeking?
[14:50] <Bombo> hmm
[14:50] <oerheks> fixed a lot of issues https://9to5linux.com/vlc-3-0-20-brings-fixes-for-potential-security-issue-av1-hardware-decoder
[14:50] <lotuspsychj3> think that was the case yeah Bombo
[14:50] <Bombo> so it's fixable with new vlc
[14:50] <Bombo> i thought it was some va driver
[14:50] <Bombo> chedcking
[14:50] <Bombo> -d
[14:50] <lotuspsychj3> de-facto: you can purge apport if you like, but i think crashes are special cases, not sure you wont be getting those anymore
[14:51] <lotuspsychj3> de-facto: try setting your privacy settings bugs to 'never' first
[14:52] <de-facto> they already were on never
[14:52] <de-facto> before that password popup appeared
[14:52] <lotuspsychj3> so crashes are special cases, ubuntu wants to warn you about
[14:52] <de-facto> ok whoopsie is protected by too many dependencies but apport can be purged
[14:53] <lotuspsychj3> apport is just the mechanism to file bugs and collect info
[14:53] <de-facto> removed apport lets see if those password prompts still appear
[14:54] <lotuspsychj3> whats crashing anyway, dont you wanna see the root causes?
[14:54] <de-facto> yeah i could look for it when i have time, but not right now
[14:55] <de-facto> everything appears to work fine
[14:57] <de-facto> thanks for the help
[14:58] <sanni> guys
[14:58] <sanni> anyone can help me
[14:59] <oerheks> hi sanni
[14:59] <oerheks> !ask
[14:59] <kyonsalt> everyone can
[14:59] <sanni> yupppppp
[15:00] <F3D0R4> hellow
[15:02] <michael_> Hello. Since a recent update Iḿ getting AMD_GPIO invalid config param 0014 errors. I've got LTS 22.04
[15:03] <michael_> How can I report that one? Not sure which category it is defined under
[15:03] <F3D0R4> yaya
[15:03] <F3D0R4> I LOVE YOU BY THE WAY
[15:03] <F3D0R4> KINDA SO
[15:04] <andrew_> hola
[15:05] <stenno> michael_: related https://forum.endeavouros.com/t/new-error-warning-amd-gpio-amdi0030-invalid-config-param-0014/43651 ?
[15:05] <F3D0R4> anyone can doxxing me?
[15:05] <leftyfb> F3D0R4: please stop
[15:05] <oerheks> michael_, i read there is a fix out<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[15:06] <oerheks> F3D0R4, see topic; no.
[15:06] <F3D0R4> okay leftyfb
[15:07] <F3D0R4> i think guys, you all solv problem can use this
[15:07] <F3D0R4> wait
[15:08] <michael_> @oerheks - ... Thanks, just realized I failed to notice a further ahead link
[15:09] <leftyfb> F3D0R4: please do not PM me
[15:09] <F3D0R4> oks
[15:15] <CosmicDJ> is this in the stable channel yet or do I have to wait? https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/steam-snap-status-improvements/39796
[15:16] <leftyfb> CosmicDJ: run:  snap info steam
[15:17] <CosmicDJ> leftyfb: I don't see any version mentioned in the
[15:17] <CosmicDJ> Steam Snap Status & Improvements article
[15:17] <leftyfb> CosmicDJ: ok, then you should contact the author of the article or the snap maintainer or steam
[15:20] <lotuspsychj3> CosmicDJ: you need to type that command in your terminal, leftyfb adviced you
[15:21] <CosmicDJ> command not found
[15:21] <leftyfb> CosmicDJ: snap is not found?
[15:22] <leftyfb> CosmicDJ: snap info steam
[15:22] <CosmicDJ> no, that leftyfb advice was not found
[15:22] <leftyfb> CosmicDJ: you removed snapd?
[15:22] <CosmicDJ> why would I do that?
[15:23] <leftyfb> CosmicDJ: you either aren't typing something correctly, removed snapd or aren't running ubuntu
[15:40] <fred_> bonsoir
[16:27] <ElbowParty> Today, the Prime Minister of Israel, Benjamin Netanyahu, had arrived for a visit to the school under the guise of studying Canadian education models.  However, the real purpose was for him to meet up with Edna, a Royal Canadian Mounted Secret Agent whose role as a teacher was a mere cover. Edna was thrilled by the prospect of meeting such a powerful figure, but what she didn't know was that the encounter would turn out to be much more than a simple
[16:27] <ElbowParty> handshake and intelligence exchange.
[16:27] <ElbowParty> https://justpaste.it/ctt2p
[17:08] <Guest35> HI Guys.
[17:08] <Guest35> I'm new to Linux environment and it's distributions. Recently I installed Ubuntu 23.10 on a old laptop, created an user and enabled remote access and SSH. To connect to this machine I was using Windows RDC, and it worked fine until I had to reboot my Ubuntu machine, because each time it rebooted I had to manually login in order to remotely connect
[17:08] <Guest35> to it.
[17:08] <Guest35> So, what I did was enabling the Autologin, on Settings, but with this option enabled, after every reboot my Remote Connection password reset to a new password.
[17:08] <Guest35> I don't know if is a bug or if it's a noob mistake. How can I setup my ubuntu machine so I can remotely connect to it whenever, even after a reboot?
[17:37] <juan> Guest35: i think this is related to the keyring not being unlocked when autologin is set up
[17:43] <juan> i'm not sure if removing the keyring password will fix your issue. of course this makes the system less secure
[17:43] <Guest35> Yes, I was reading about it, and I'm a little skeptical about 'disabling' keyring
[17:45] <Guest35> Would be great if it was a configuration that could be reserved. Like, when autologin is on, remote connection won't change.
[17:47] <juan> an alternative to rdp would be using x0vncserver
[17:48] <juan> which is a bit more old school and a bit slower than rdp, but it works (at least on my kubuntu computers) even after rebooting
[17:48] <Guest35> I'll read about it. Thank you much
[17:49] <juan> i have a systemd unit template you could use if you're interested
[17:50] <Guest35> It would be great. how do I access it?
[17:51] <juan> give me a sec
[17:56] <juan> the way i have it set up is like this https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/65J3gzvyVn/
[17:57] <Guest35> Thank you much
[17:57] <juan> that should be saved as /etc/systemd/system/x11vnc.service
[17:58] <juan> you will need to install the x11vnc package, set up the password and get a vnc client on your other devices
[17:59] <juan> oh and enable and start the x11vnc service so it starts after booting
[18:00] <Guest35> I will, just finishing here and i'm going on the other room pickup my laptop
[18:02] <Yashar> hi
[18:09] <juan> also, dpaste.com's certificate has expired today :P
[18:10] <oerheks> https://dpaste.org/
[18:12] <juan> nice. i was trying .com since it's the one mentioned in the topic
[18:20] <matiasdo> erm hello??
[19:18] <WeeBey> Help frens! I upgraded to 23.10 today and I left the computer on for a bit. I think it went to suspend. When I came back, it had crashed. No TTYs or anything. TTYs had an error like " "despite vacuuming, ignoring: read only file system (Dropped 37 similar message(s))"
[19:18] <WeeBey> Drive is encrypted with luks
[19:25] <meeki> salve
[19:25] <WeeBey98> It's maybe the kernel. :/
[19:28] <WeeBey98> dang. Maybe this upgrade wasn't a good idea
[19:30] <WeeBey98> apt update gives me all of these errors: https://pastebin.com/SdeKx2qK   Any suggestions please? :-(
[19:30] <WeeBey98> Well, "warnings" technically.
[19:33] <Habbie> WeeBey98, it's telling you things are duplicate; it's also telling you where (:40 is a line number)
[19:33] <Habbie> WeeBey98, so, edit that file
[19:37] <WeeBey98> thank you Habbie. i didn't realize it was the same line number
[19:37] <WeeBey98> i'm worried about the other thing, however. I don't want to be doing hard-reboots if the laptop crashes at suspend. :-/
[20:02] <at_work> Greetings, I'm having issues here with netplan and networkd trampling my libvirt defined virbr0.  I have a basic netplan yaml file that contains a br0 definition.  This file is next to the 00-installer-config.yaml left by subiquity following installation.
[20:03] <at_work> Has anyone see this before?  Does my bridge yaml file need to come after 00-installer-config.yaml lexical speaking?
[20:07] <BarnabasDK> after update via fwupdmgr my screens are hopping and dancing via thunderbolt only the built in screen on my laptop is usable - is this seen before? have worked floorlessly for years
[20:08] <BarnabasDK> what do I look for
[20:10] <toddc> BarnabasDK: !details
[20:10] <toddc> !details | BarnabasDK
[20:10] <toddc> what GPU  what version of ubuntu  What desktop DE
[20:11] <BarnabasDK> let me rule out some stuff then
[20:11] <BarnabasDK> its not the desktop works fine
[20:11] <BarnabasDK> not the driver seems to work fine too - except via thunderbolt
[20:12] <BarnabasDK> and also - I do software dev and are used to hw close issues
[20:12] <BarnabasDK> have never seen this before
[20:13] <BarnabasDK> Lenovo X1 user
[20:13] <BarnabasDK> have you had others today / yesterday - I strongly suspect a firmware update I applied today
[20:15] <toddc> BarnabasDK: nothing today do you what the firmware was for?   any resolution changes?   thunderbolt rate limits?
[20:16] <BarnabasDK> res is not the issue
[20:16] <BarnabasDK> I can see the screens for secons then blinking on and off
[20:17] <BarnabasDK> hopping around all over the place
[20:17] <BarnabasDK> I would say refresh rate maybe
[20:17] <toddc> that would be a place to start testing
[20:17] <BarnabasDK> no dice
[20:18] <BarnabasDK> a us / eu issue
[20:18] <BarnabasDK> 30/60 vs 25/50?
[20:19] <toddc> turn it down and recheck
[20:20] <BarnabasDK> Just the be accurate - I don't think the problem is with ubuntu - I think it is hw related - just wondering if you had other reports today due to lenovo x1
[20:20] <toddc> I have not seen any monitor issues here today
[20:20] <oerheks>  use fwupdmgr get-devices and downgrade [DEVICE-ID] https://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/jammy/man1/fwupdmgr.1.html
[20:21] <BarnabasDK> yes I considered downgrading
[20:21] <oerheks> and file a bugreport, when you spot the device and firmware nr
[20:22] <oerheks> get-history also usable
[20:37] <toni_> 12345!
[20:48] <natewrench> since optical media isnt used as much anymore whats the next gen of freedom toasters?
[20:52] <leftyfb> !ot | natewrench
[21:04] <impermanence> I have a hotspot behind which is sitting a small ubuntu 22 lts. On my local network I can ssh just fine from my work laptop to the small ubuntu server. When I, however, put the ubuntu server on the hotspot of course it runs into the NATing of the hotspot. The hotspot exposes a port forwarding feature which I'm attempting to use, but am totally lost
[21:04] <impermanence> as to why it is not working. Yes I know this is more of a networking question and I asked there first, but I think folks are probably at a loss to try and help. Here's the documentation for the port forwarding tab of the hotspot:
[21:04] <impermanence> https://inseego.com/resources/product-documentation/wavemaker-fx3100/global/user-guide/advanced-settings/port-forwarding-tab/
[21:04] <impermanence> It seems relatively straightforward, but obviously there is something in the setup that I am confused about.
[21:05] <impermanence> I'm trying to handle this for ssh.
[21:05] <impermanence> I have my sshd on my ubuntu server listening on ports 21, 22 and 8888.
[21:05] <impermanence> on my local network I can connect to any of these; works great.
[21:06] <impermanence> when I configure a "custom application" on the hotspot port forward tab I set the device IP to the IP of the ubuntu server on the hotspot and the external and internal ports for forwarding both to 8888.
[21:06] <impermanence> Anyway guesses would be immensely appreciated!
[21:07] <impermanence> `kex_exchange_identification: Connection closed by remote host`
[21:08] <at_work> I've confirmed netplan apply with a br0 defined wipes out my libvirt activated virbr0... grrrrrr
[21:08] <jeremy31> impermanence: Is it a cellular hotspot?
[21:08] <impermanence> yes
[21:09] <impermanence> jeremy31: why do you ask?
[21:09] <jeremy31> impermanence: I have had no luck with cellular and some ports, they block a bunch
[21:10] <ravage> with celluar networks at least on ipv4 you usually deal with double NATing
[21:10] <ravage> that alomost never works
[21:10] <impermanence> I specified ext as 8888 and int as 8888
[21:10] <jeremy31> impermanence: With one provider I had, my IP changed often enough I couldn't stay connected on IRC
[21:11] <ravage> if you only have a mobile connection with such NATing get a small VPS with a static IP and do your routing via VPN or whatever through that
[21:12] <impermanence> VPS?
[21:12] <ravage> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_private_server
[21:13] <impermanence> oh
[21:13] <impermanence> a vm
[21:13] <Kadigan> Hm. Is it safe to remove cloud-init? What does it serve on a Desktop machine running in a VM?
[21:13] <ravage> so you do an outgoing connection from your mobile ISP to that server
[21:14] <jeremy31> Get a static connection over hard wire or fiber
[21:14] <impermanence> ^ yeah that would be best obviously
[21:14] <impermanence> but there's a deadline I need to meet first
[21:14] <impermanence> then I'll get a LAN
[21:14] <impermanence> ravage: how would I "do an outgoing connection from your mobile ISP to that server"
[21:14] <ravage> ssh or vpn
[21:14] <impermanence> I mean I think that puts me back at port forwarding
[21:15] <ravage> yes sure. you will always need some forwarding
[21:15] <impermanence> right so if I can configure a VPN then why can't I just port forward to a device behind the hotspot on non-standard ports...
[21:16] <ravage> because you probably dont have your own WAN ipv4
[21:16] <ravage> the IP is shared with many customers
[21:17] <impermanence> you think that more than one hotspot shares a public ip?!
[21:17] <impermanence> that I had never considered
[21:17] <ravage> if it is on a mobile ISP then chances are almost 100%
[21:17] <impermanence> hm, okay.
[21:17] <impermanence> but it still doesn't make any sense though why NAT doesn't work
[21:18] <impermanence> I mean the hotspot has a whole tab dedicated to port forwarding
[21:18] <Kadigan> Because there's a second NAT on the carrier level, which you don't control.
[21:18] <impermanence> aight
[21:18] <impermanence> still doesn't make sense though
[21:18] <Kadigan> Mobile operators have like a few 100 IPs, and they assign millions of customers to them.
[21:18] <Kadigan> They also isolate them from each other.
[21:18] <impermanence> I mean basically what I'm hearing is that inbound connections through a mobile hotspot aren't possible
[21:19] <jeremy31> It might work if you had a second device on the same cell carrier and then use the internal IP
[21:19] <Kadigan> And they also enforce TTL limits so you can't attach a router and share the hotspot further.
[21:19] <impermanence> in other words a client can't connect directly to a device behind a mobile hotspot haha
[21:19] <Kadigan> jeremy31: unlikely; host isolation is most likely in full effect
[21:19] <impermanence> and if that's the case then a VPN wouldn't work either
[21:19] <jeremy31> Kadigan: I did it years ago
[21:19] <impermanence> but clearly VPN is an option because there is also a tab dedicated to VPN
[21:19] <Kadigan> You would need to VPN *out*, and then reverse forward ports.
[21:19] <Kadigan> i.e. you would need a VPN server somewhere on the Internet, with a known address, that you could connect to.
[21:20] <ravage> but all that is really OT here. try #networking
[21:20] <impermanence> I already did
[21:20] <impermanence> y'all are doing way better haha
[21:20] <Kadigan> jeremy31: yeah, I could connect to other IPs within my ISP's space years ago too - it's no longer possible :D
[21:20] <Kadigan> They realised that they could cut down on attacks/infections that way. :D
[21:21] <Kadigan> Uncountable port scans every day, I tell ya. :D
[21:21] <Kadigan> impermanence: at any rate, you're kinda SOL for being on a mobile network, sorry dude
[21:21] <impermanence> same issue: https://superuser.com/questions/1743876/connecting-to-a-home-server-on-a-cellular-hotspot
[21:21] <LuckyMan> hi, where do I submit wallpapers for the next Ubuntu?
[21:22] <ravage> LuckyMan: check discourse for when that contest opens. not yet.
[21:22] <LuckyMan> ravage: thanks
[21:25] <Kadigan> impermanence: like I said, you'll need something you can connect OUT to (Ubuntu -> hotspot -> internet -> some known host), and then reverse-forward ports. SSH can do this, by the way, and there's a whole host of software that can as well. The important thing is that it will only work as long as the outgoing connection is kept up. Connecting from the internet to YOU directly is IMPOSSIBLE (or as close as makes no difference); you will need to connect to
[21:25] <Kadigan> that host I mentioned, which will forward the traffic through the tunnel to you.
[21:25] <impermanence> right
[21:25] <impermanence> I mean I should be able to do that without a proxy
[21:25] <impermanence> I could just reverse tunnel from the ubuntu behind the cell hotspot to my local box
[21:26] <impermanence> at least I would think?
[21:26] <Kadigan> As long as your local box is reachable from the Internet.
[21:26] <impermanence> why would I need another server :-/
[21:26] <Kadigan> Note that you may not get a public IP from a landline ISP by default. You may need to ask for it, you may need to pay for it, and in some cases it may not even be available at all. IPv4 ran out in 2019.
[21:26] <impermanence> I mean this is why I came here
[21:27] <impermanence> because I think i could setup LOL *port forwarding* on my home router
[21:27] <impermanence> then I could reverse tunnel via my router to my local box
[21:27] <Kadigan> Okay. Retry explaining what is it you're trying to do, and what the network looks like.
[21:27] <impermanence> ssh local > cell hotspot > ubuntu
[21:27] <Kadigan> Define "local".
[21:28] <impermanence> home laptop behind my standard ISP router
[21:28] <Kadigan> Do you have a public IP on the standard ISP router?
[21:28] <impermanence> of course
[21:28] <impermanence> how else would traffic reach me?
[21:28] <Kadigan> NAT.
[21:28] <impermanence> home routers share public ips?
[21:28] <Kadigan> Of course.
[21:28] <Kadigan> Look up CGNAT (Carrier Grade NAT).
[21:28] <Kadigan> IPv4 RAN OUT
[21:28] <impermanence> okay
[21:28] <Kadigan> in 2019.
[21:29] <Kadigan> No more new IPs.
[21:29] <Kadigan> More customers every year.
[21:29] <Kadigan> = CGNAT
[21:29] <impermanence> fudgies
[21:29] <impermanence> damn TIL
[21:29] <Kadigan> IPv6 support is crap; my ISP has been "working on it" since 2012.
[21:29] <juan> i would just slap tailscale on it and let it figure out how to reach each other lol
[21:30] <ravage> we dont know what your ISP offers
[21:30] <impermanence> wait...
[21:30] <ravage> find that out first
[21:30] <Kadigan> impermanence: I assume that the machine you're trying to reach is NOT within physical proximity to your "local" machine?
[21:30] <impermanence> it is currently
[21:30] <Kadigan> But won't be?
[21:30] <impermanence> cuz "testing"
[21:30] <ravage> on a landline ISP you may have your own IPv4. probably not static
[21:30] <impermanence> won't be correct
[21:30] <impermanence> not static
[21:30] <impermanence> but hang on
[21:31] <impermanence> CGNAT and NAT aside...
[21:31] <impermanence> obviously there is a way a remote machine to ssh into my local box at home
[21:31] <impermanence> reverse tunnel
[21:31] <Kadigan> Yes, but you need to have an Internet-reachable middle-man for that.
[21:31] <impermanence> yeah, starting to piece that together now
[21:31] <impermanence> I mean I can spin up a VM with a static IP no problem
[21:32] <ravage> i dont think you understand how your network works yet
[21:32] <Kadigan> Note that if your ISP's IP is not static, you will need to get dynamic DNS. It will involve paying SOMEONE, most likely, though there's a number of services that offer "free" options. Best option (most expensive) is to buy a domain, and then pay for DDNS on an A host for that domain (it's what I do).
[21:32] <impermanence> ravage: I understand it well enough
[21:32] <ravage> good luck then
[21:32] <Kadigan> impermanence: as long as it's reachable over the Internet
[21:32] <impermanence> ravage: there's no need for me to call my ISP and ask for a dedicate public IP
[21:33] <impermanence> Kadigan: of course
[21:33] <impermanence> that I am not confused about
[21:33] <impermanence> I can go to AWS, spin up a VM and assign a universally unique public IP that is properly routable to over the public internet
[21:34] <impermanence> the part I'm confused about is...
[21:34] <impermanence> so I reverse tunnel from that VM to uh...where now?
[21:34] <Kadigan> If you have a net-reachable host, and need this for stuff like SSH access,
[21:35] <Kadigan> I would actually recommend you set up a VPN for this.
[21:35] <impermanence> k VPN
[21:35] <impermanence> sure I can use OpenVPN
[21:35] <Kadigan> Connect from Server over Hotspot to AWS VM,
[21:35] <Kadigan> connect from Local over ISP to AWS VM
[21:35] <Kadigan> and "talk" over VPN as if you were on a local network.
[21:35] <impermanence> alright
[21:35] <Kadigan> No need to expose anything to the public Internet this way. All happens over VPN.
[21:35] <impermanence> k
[21:36] <impermanence> but I just want a terminal
[21:36] <impermanence> I don't want a graphical experience because it's way too bandwidth intensive
[21:36] <Kadigan> If using OpenVPN, remember to "route-nopull", so that you don't override all traffic to the VPN, as there is no need, and it would break this way.
[21:36] <impermanence> so I guess once my local is connect to the AWS VM I can ssh to the server?
[21:36] <impermanence> I mean I can TeamViewer right now to the server behind the hotspot lol
[21:36] <impermanence> that is a fact
[21:36] <ravage> if you only want to connect via SSH "sudo apt install tmate"
[21:37] <Kadigan> As long as BOTH are connected to the AWS VM VPN, yes - you would then "talk" to them using the VPN-assigned IPs, or you could set up packet forwarding to use "native" IPs as long as there are no address conflicts.
[21:37] <ravage> https://tmate.io/
[21:37] <impermanence> Kadigan: k
[21:37] <Kadigan> (use "iroute" directives for this)
[21:38] <Kadigan> This is nontrivial, true, but once you have the basics set up, you will then be able to get other machines to join this VPN, and it'll work the same for them as well.
[21:39] <impermanence> I don't care about other machines nor will I ever
[21:39] <impermanence> and I'll probably only need this for like a month lmfao
[21:39] <impermanence> but it is what it is
[21:39] <impermanence> I mean if Teamviewer can connect why can't anything else?
[21:39] <impermanence> over CGNAT
[21:39] <impermanence> that makes zero sense
[21:39] <Kadigan> Because TeamViewer uses a middle-man.
[21:40] <impermanence> huh
[21:40] <Kadigan> Connections go over their servers, which are Internet-reachable.
[21:40] <impermanence> k I submit
[21:40] <impermanence> lol
[21:40] <Kadigan> Same with Hamachi, which is a type of zero-conf VPN.
[21:40] <impermanence> alright so last thing:
[21:40] <impermanence> once my server is connected to my VPN middle man
[21:40] <impermanence> and my local is connected to my VPN middle man
[21:41] <impermanence> ...what do I need to do to get local to talk to the server?
[21:41] <impermanence> I mean I guess at that point I *can* ssh, huh?
[21:41] <Kadigan> Depends on the configuration of the VPN.
[21:41] <Kadigan> If you use iroute and separate IP pools, you will "ssh actual-ip-of-the-server".
[21:41] <Kadigan> If not, you will use "ssh ip-assigned-by-the-VPN"
[21:42] <impermanence> I will "do what is easiest" haha
[21:42] <Kadigan> The latter is easiest.
[21:42] <impermanence> I take it I can just use openvpn?
[21:42] <Kadigan> TEST EXTENSIVELY, and remember to set up auto-reconnects and such.  It's what I use to bridge my home network and work network.
[21:44] <impermanence> sick
[21:44] <impermanence> thanks!
[21:44] <Kadigan> np-
[21:55] <ubuntu> hello
[21:55] <ubuntu> i am new here
[21:55] <Guest5583> anyone here?
[21:55] <Habbie> !ask
[22:22] <xMopx> does apt have anything like yum's $releasever, $basearch variables?
[22:23] <ravage> that assumes we know anything about yum :P
[22:23] <Habbie> i happen to know what these are, but i was also just going to say, better explain what they are
[22:23] <Habbie> or, even better than that, tell us what problem you're trying to solve
[22:23] <JanC> the thing that was replaced by DNF
[22:24] <Habbie> which has the vars too
[22:25] <JanC> I still don't understand how anybody can name a package manager after the common abbreviation of "Did Not Finish"
[22:29] <oerheks> !root
[22:29] <oerheks> err
[22:29] <oerheks> !rootirc
[22:38] <xMopx> Did Not Finish makes me laugh
[22:38] <xMopx> that's been my experience with how the tool operates hehe
[22:39] <xMopx> ravage, Habbie, you can write $basearch in repo config files and the tool will automatically sub in your arch, for example
[22:39] <xMopx> i'm writing a script that installs a repo, and i don't want to have to detect the os arch myself
[22:39] <xMopx> (or the os release version)
[22:39] <ravage> echo "deb [signed-by=/etc/apt/keyrings/teams-for-linux.asc arch=$(dpkg --print-architecture)] https://repo.teamsforlinux.de/debian/ stable main" | sudo tee /etc/apt/sources.list.d/teams-for-linux-packages.list
[22:40] <ravage> random example from my repo install script
[22:40] <xMopx> that's more or less what i'm doing, but in python
[22:40] <Habbie> the docker docs do something similar
[22:41] <ravage> but for my rpm repo i dont add any arch
[22:41] <ravage> it may be because there is only one. i never checked
[22:41] <ravage> 1 se
[22:41] <ravage> c
[22:42] <ravage> hm. no i add them all
[22:42] <ravage> seems to just work. never had any complains
[22:42] <xMopx> the repo i'm working with is so goofy, they set up entirely separate repos for each os/arch combination lol
[22:42] <ravage> thats not great :)
[22:43] <ravage> i think i could remove the arch from my repo line for debian/ubuntu too
[22:43] <ravage> it would just choose the systems arch
[22:44] <xMopx> it does
[22:45] <xMopx> though i vaguely recall having an issue where apt was trying to fetch some index that wasn't my arch
[22:45] <xMopx> that was not present in the repo, and i had to set that arch=x to make apt work again. Can't remember the specifics
[22:50] <oerheks> not a valid repository story
[23:58] <vandelsoncleitos> Any of you guys having problems with proton?
[23:59] <oerheks> steam?


[07:05] <Cimi> morning
[07:09] <Cimi> Saviq, noticed a bug with the new indicators
[07:09] <Darth-Apple> Morning
[07:09] <Cimi> Saviq, the orange highlight moves and is not centered
[07:25] <Saviq> Cimi, hmm, let me flash a previous image
[07:25] <Saviq> I can't see how I might've caused that
[07:37] <Cimi> Saviq, I realised your code kinda works the same, but if you prefer you can use what I put https://code.launchpad.net/~saviq/unity8/rating-non-interactive/+merge/225568
[07:40] <Saviq> Cimi, I think mine's good enough, can't really foresee when it'd break
[07:40] <Saviq> we could probably just tap 0,0, let me see if that would work
[07:42] <Saviq> Cimi, pushed 0, 0, works just fine - to really make sure what we're tapping on, we'd need to add objectNames to the icons and find it/tap on it
[07:42] <Saviq> not sure it's worth it though
[07:43] <Saviq> mhr3_, kudos on grabbing r1000 ;)
[07:47] <mhr3_> Saviq, \o/
[07:47] <mhr3_> Saviq, i want 1024 too though :)
[07:47] <Saviq> mhr3_, hmm you'll need to be rather quick ;)
[07:47] <Saviq> we're at 1009 already ;)
[07:48] <Saviq> 1010 rather, with LP syncing translations
[07:54] <sil2100> Saviq: hey! Could you remind me how it was before in the past with LP: #1320264 ? I mean, the approvers were listed only from the list of comment-approvers or did it also include the top-approver?
[07:55] <Saviq> sil2100, it was only comment-approvers
[07:55] <sil2100> ACK
[07:55] <Saviq> sil2100, but it'd be nice to have the top-approver, too, if possible
[08:05] <Cimi> Saviq, you can approve https://code.launchpad.net/~cimi/ubuntu-system-settings/workaround_lp1334429/+merge/225458 :)
[08:06] <Saviq> Cimi, move the fixme above please
[08:06] <Saviq> Cimi, and "relative to the panel"
[08:15] <mikenagle> mhall119 - for a few reasons. When we did user research, we found that people didn't like their apps being so close to apps they didn't own. And they found it confusing. Also, as the nuber of available apps grow, users will need a way to browse them, to search and filter them and to have apps recommended. And we can't provide that depth of experience when they're displayed as a simple list below the installed apps
[09:15] <Saviq> Cimi, the orange highlight bar is a bug in trunk, made a bit more visible by my branch probably
[09:15] <Saviq> Cimi, can you file please?
[09:15] <Cimi> Saviq, sure
[09:15] <Cimi> Saviq, or just fix it
[09:15] <Cimi> let me ping dednick
[09:16] <Cimi> dednick, highlight on the indicator is not centered and moves
[09:16] <Cimi> the orange bar
[09:16] <Cimi> see it on battery for example
[09:17] <Cimi> Saviq, units.gu(0.4) is interpreted as exactly 0.5?
[09:17] <Saviq> Cimi, no, you should just no use it
[09:18] <Cimi> Saviq, I know it is wrong
[09:18] <Saviq> Cimi, it not being centered I think might be a false feeling
[09:18] <Cimi> Saviq, I was just wondering what is is interpreted
[09:18] <Cimi> no it is not
[09:18] <Cimi> look at batery
[09:18] <Saviq> Cimi, it's not interpreted, it's calculated
[09:18] <Cimi> or bluetooth
[09:19] <Saviq> Cimi, can't, now, had to downgrade to confirm I'm not at fault :P
[09:19] <Saviq> Cimi, yeah, confirmed on previous icons as well
[09:21] <Saviq> Cimi, please just file a bug
[09:22] <Saviq> Cimi, it'll be a bite-size to fix in London or so
[09:26] <Cimi> https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity8/+bug/1337771
[09:28] <karni> mhr3: Would you have a hint for me regarding proper access to search metadata class? https://pastebin.canonical.com/112989/
[09:29] <mhr3> karni, you need to #include it ;)
[09:29] <mhr3> karni, really, should just #include <unity-scopes.h>
[09:30] <karni> mhr3: huh.. I would expect some "unknown class" what not error ;P
[09:30] <mhr3> karni, yea, that's unknown class in g++ lingo :)
[09:30] <karni> mhr3: thanks :)
[09:30] <mhr3> clearly you don't speak g++
[09:30] <mhr3> :)
[09:30] <karni> worky!
[09:33] <Cimi> Saviq, is there a bug for all the new icons being in wrong aspect ratio and using svg instead png?
[09:34] <Saviq> Cimi, what do you mean wrong aspect ratio? where?
[09:34] <Saviq> Cimi, you mean they're not square?
[09:34] <Saviq> Cimi, and they have to be svg, they won't render well otherwise
[09:34] <Cimi> Saviq, aspect ratio of icons is squashed
[09:34] <Cimi> web browser icon is wrong
[09:35] <Cimi> hold on, new image
[09:35] <Cimi> I was on 112
[09:35] <Saviq> Cimi, when you say "all those icons", please say that you mean app icons
[09:35] <Saviq> Cimi, those are not "all" icons
[09:35] <Cimi> well, other icons are indicators
[09:35] <Cimi> :)
[09:36] <Cimi> so yeah all the icons in the dash
[09:36] <Cimi> and launcher
[09:36] <Saviq> Cimi, no, those are also icons, not indicators
[09:36] <Saviq> Cimi, and launcher should be fine
[09:36] <Cimi> let me check I just upgraded to 113
[09:36] <Saviq> Cimi, dash we know is wrong
[09:36] <Saviq> doesn'
[09:36] <Saviq> t matter
[09:36] <Cimi> ok
[09:37] <Cimi> so web browser is wrong
[09:37] <Cimi> we should use a png or change the rendering
[09:37] <Cimi> the icons are squashed in the dash
[09:37] <Saviq> Cimi, for app icons I agree, we should switch to pngs
[09:38] <Saviq> Cimi, and indeed something's still wrong in the launcher
[09:38] <Cimi> the highlight and inset is wrong
[09:38] <Cimi> think I saw a MP for it
[09:38] <Saviq> Cimi, yeah, there's a bunch of launcher MPs (that you could review btw)
[09:39] <Cimi> yeah can do
[09:39] <Cimi> just looping into bugs
[09:39] <Saviq> damn bzr
[09:40] <Cimi> tags?
[09:40] <Saviq> no
[09:40] <Saviq> merge http://paste.ubuntu.com/7746302/
[09:40] <Saviq> mzanetti, check this out ↑...
[09:41] <mhr3> cross merges? eek
[09:41] <mzanetti> Saviq: hmm...
[09:41] <mhr3> try with different merge alg
[09:41] <mzanetti> Saviq: did I mess this up?
[09:41] <Saviq> the original diff http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/7746308/
[09:41] <Saviq> mzanetti, no, bzr did
[09:42] <Saviq> --weave it is then
[09:42] <Saviq> better
[09:43] <mhr3> Saviq, :/ hilfe http://paste.ubuntu.com/7746311/
[09:43] <mhr3> QFATAL : qmltestrunner::test_categories_roles(Model.roles[expansionQuery]) Using un-implemented Categories role
[09:43] <Saviq> mhr3, well, implement the Categories role!
[09:44] <mhr3> but it's there!
[09:45] <Saviq> mhr3, that diff's on top of unity-api trunk?
[09:46] <mhr3> aaah, nevermind
[09:47] <mhr3> there's a big if and two switches.. didn't notice that
[09:48] <Saviq> :)
[09:48] <Saviq> mzanetti, new header is ready, right?
[09:50] <Saviq> mzanetti, oh, I meant to remove the whole line with "recent searches", not just the X button
[09:50] <mzanetti> Saviq: oh
[09:50] <mzanetti> ack, lemme drop it
[09:51] <mzanetti> otherwise, I'd say yes, its ready, unless you find some more stuff
[09:54] <Saviq> mzanetti, wonder, if the popover's gone, could we unfocus the search entry on another onPressed in the IMA?
[09:54] <Saviq> mzanetti, and shouldn't we disable it when unfocused?
[09:55] <Saviq> mzanetti, oh and hmm, it shouldn't cover the whole header
[09:55] <mzanetti> Saviq: ?
[09:55] <dednick> Saviq: by not centered, you mean it moves as you move drag down?
[09:55] <Saviq> mzanetti, just the active parts
[09:55] <mzanetti> slow down
[09:55] <Saviq> mzanetti, I'll write on the MP
[09:56] <Saviq> dednick, no, not centered to the icons horizontally (sometimes)
[09:56] <dednick> Saviq: hm. ok, i'll take a look.
[09:56] <Saviq> dednick, not now
[09:56] <Saviq> dednick, Cimi will file a bug
[09:56] <dednick> Saviq: ok
[09:56] <Saviq> dednick, and we'll tackle it somewhen
[09:56] <Saviq> Cimi, right? you will?
[09:57] <dednick> Saviq: actually, i think i've fixed it in a MP already
[09:57] <Cimi> Saviq, I did
[09:57] <Saviq> dednick, oh ok :)
[09:57] <Cimi> https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity8/+bug/1337771
[09:58] <dednick> Saviq, Cimi: https://code.launchpad.net/~nick-dedekind/unity8/indicator.dismissal/+merge/225338
[09:58] <dednick> kind of unrelated to what the mp was for, but it was a one line.
[09:59] <Saviq> k
[09:59] <dednick> and fyi, the move left to right as you're dragging is a feature,  but it should settle when you let go.
[09:59] <Saviq> dednick, still moves as you move
[09:59] <Saviq> ah ok
[10:00] <Saviq> fixeded
[10:01] <dednick> one we get to rtm we should really get some fully featured design docs for each component. everything is all over the place.
[10:02] <Saviq> dednick, LOL
[10:02] <Saviq> dednick, we'll get new ones, don't worry ;)
[10:12] <mhr3> haha, that was funny
[10:12] <mhr3> dednick, come on, it's not like this was your first week :P
[10:14] <Saviq> mzanetti, commented
[10:15] <mzanetti> Saviq: cheres, will look at it in a bit
[10:16] <Saviq> it's spelled chères
[10:16] <dednick> mhr3: :)
[10:17] <dednick> well, if we want to be able to "sell" this thing, we should probably have some documentation for customers, let alone for us!
[10:31] <MacSlow> dednick, quick question regarding UnityMenuModel... can one catch a DBus-connection going missing on the QML-side?
[10:32] <dednick> MacSlow: don't think so
[10:48] <mhr3> tsdgeos is also on holiday?
[10:51] <Cimi> mhr3, yes
[10:51] <mhr3> didn't he just get back from one?
[10:51] <mhr3> slacker :P
[10:52] <Cimi> mhr3, I am worse cause I am on holiday when you are sprinting :P
[10:52] <Cimi> love that
[10:52] <Cimi> ahah
[10:53] <Cimi> Saviq, why the indicator wobbling is a feature?
[10:53] <Cimi> it's a bug to me
[10:53] <Saviq> Cimi, because dednick said so
[10:54] <dednick> because design said so
[10:54] <Cimi> I mean the fact is moves 2 pixels
[10:54] <Cimi> it is a bug
[10:54] <Cimi> design didn't see it
[10:54] <Cimi> I did
[10:54] <Cimi> and matthieu saw it too
[10:55] <Cimi> maybe other designers didn't notice
[10:55] <dednick> 2 pixels?
[10:55] <Cimi> if you slowly pull down the menu, you see it wobbling
[10:55] <Cimi> sound and battery
[10:55] <Cimi> a couple of pixels roughly
[10:56] <Saviq> dednick, yeah, as it sticks to one icon, it also gets pulled a few pixels to either side following your finger
[10:56] <dednick> Cimi: its a specific feature requested by design for the current indicator to shift slightless left/right as you finger moves left right.
[10:56] <Cimi> dednick, the finger doesn't move
[10:56] <Saviq> Cimi, it does
[10:56] <Saviq> Cimi, finger always moves
[10:57] <Cimi> ah I see
[10:57] <Cimi> well I will open a bug
[10:57] <Cimi> we should have a dead zone
[10:58] <dednick> Cimi: huh?
[10:58] <Cimi> dednick, it stays in the center of the indicator unless you move more than some pixels
[10:58] <Cimi> this will avoid wobblyness
[11:02] <dednick> Cimi: a threshold you mean.
[11:03] <dednick> or a damper
[11:03] <Cimi> dednick, it is called dead zone on interfaces/controllers
[11:04] <Cimi> Saviq, i discovered sth yesterday
[11:05] <Cimi> Saviq, basically the OSK mouse area and input area
[11:05] <Cimi> Saviq, are always on screen
[11:05] <Cimi> but disabled
[11:06] <Cimi> do we want to put them offscreen or visible false when kdb is off?
[11:06] <Saviq> Cimi, that's actually a bug in keyboard
[11:06] <Saviq> Cimi, it should slide up and down as it opens / closes
[11:06] <Saviq> Cimi, and that would communicate the correct coords
[11:07] <Cimi> Saviq, it does, but when is closed I think UbuntuKeyboarInfo has y on screen
[11:07] <Cimi> like y is screen height - kbd height
[11:07] <Saviq> Cimi, it doesn't slide
[11:07] <Saviq> Cimi, it just goes away in one frame
[11:07] <Saviq> Cimi, if you swipe the keyboard away, the input area follows
[11:07] <Cimi> Saviq, yes
[11:07] <Cimi> Saviq, but then
[11:08] <Cimi> Saviq, when the kbd is off screen
[11:08] <Saviq> Cimi, I know, it comes back
[11:08] <Cimi> Saviq, the inputarea is on screen, as well with the mouse area
[11:08] <Cimi> saw it putting a rect and anchoring
[11:08] <Cimi> I always have the rect in every app
[11:08] <Saviq> Cimi, yeah, but isn't it because the keyboard communicates the coordinates still?
[11:08] <Saviq> when it should be 0 height?
[11:08] <Cimi> Saviq, either 0 height
[11:09] <Cimi> Saviq, or y being screen_height
[11:09] <Cimi> while y I think is
[11:09] <Cimi> y = screen_height - kbd_height
[11:09] <Cimi> when keyboard is off
[11:09] <Saviq> Cimi, no it's not
[11:10] <Cimi> as soon as it pops in, you see y starting again from screen_height
[11:10] <Saviq> Cimi, because as you slide the keyboard away with your finger
[11:10] <Saviq> Cimi, the rectangle follows
[11:10] <Saviq> Cimi, if what you say would be true
[11:10] <Saviq> Cimi, the rectangle would stay in place but shring
[11:10] <Saviq> shrink
[11:10] <Cimi> Saviq, yes
[11:10] <Cimi> Saviq, until it is outside
[11:10] <Cimi> let me do video
[11:10] <Saviq> Cimi, don't
[11:10] <Saviq> Cimi, it's 10 lines of code
[11:11] <Saviq> Cimi, you're wasting time
[11:11] <Saviq> Cimi, just find what's the issue
[11:11] <Saviq> fix it
[11:11] <Saviq> done
[11:12] <Cimi> Saviq, well it is a bug in ubuntukeyboard maybe
[11:12] <Cimi> Saviq, and I don't know how we want to fix it
[11:12] <Cimi> Saviq, either flagging visible false
[11:12] <Saviq> Cimi, file a bug against the ubuntukeyboard then
[11:12] <Cimi> or reducing height
[11:12] <Cimi> or moving y outside screen
[11:13] <Saviq> Cimi, I told you how, keyboard should slide out and be 0 height
[11:13] <Cimi> so both
[11:13] <Cimi> y = screen height and height 0
[11:13] <Cimi> ok
[11:13] <Saviq> Cimi, it needs to be a rectangle, in global coordinates, that the OSK covers
[11:13] <Cimi> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QWSJxnL7FY
[11:14] <Cimi> when i slide out, you see the yellow color of the mousearea delayed following
[11:14] <Cimi> (what a bad color choice yellow over white)
[11:15] <Saviq> Cimi, yes, use red
[11:15] <Saviq> Cimi, but *yes*
[11:15] <Saviq> *I know*
[11:16] <Cimi> filing bug
[11:20] <Cimi> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-keyboard/+bug/1337814
[11:25] <mzanetti> Saviq: re "If popover is already gone, we should unfocus the text field."
[11:25] <mzanetti> Saviq: would you expect a press on the dash content to just unfocus the textfield
[11:25] <mzanetti> or unfocus *and* do the press
[11:25] <Saviq> mzanetti, both
[11:25] <mzanetti> ok
[11:25] <Saviq> mzanetti, basically, onPressed
[11:26] <mzanetti> ack
[11:26] <Saviq> mzanetti, so that when you swipe, it dismisses as well
[11:41] <Saviq> mzanetti, review for you please https://code.launchpad.net/~unity-team/unity8/scope-customizations/+merge/225170
[11:41] <mzanetti> ack
[11:55] <Saviq> mzanetti, anything I forgot https://code.launchpad.net/~elopio/unity8/flake8-precommit/+merge/224852/comments/542929 ?
[11:55]  * mzanetti reads
[11:56] <bregma> Saviq, just for the record, Unity 8 on desktop was critically broken by a bug in Mesa earlier, it got fixed Thursday and the theme change tested out OK on desktop -- sorry for the delay
[11:57] <Saviq> bregma, great, thanks
[12:02] <mzanetti> Saviq: https://code.launchpad.net/~elopio/unity8/flake8-precommit/+merge/224852/comments/542934
[12:02] <Saviq> mzanetti, I did write "drop the second hook"
[12:02] <mzanetti> meh... sorry
[12:03] <mzanetti> Saviq: but I guess the thing about blocking vs warning is still valid
[12:03] <Saviq> mzanetti, yes
[12:09] <Cimi> Saviq, what did you mean yesterday about the dots at the bottom of the page?
[12:09] <Cimi> in the wizard?
[12:10] <Saviq> Cimi, there's 4 dots
[12:10] <Saviq> Cimi, but I had 4 pages (no SIM is an optional page?)
[12:10] <Saviq> 5 pages
[12:10] <Cimi> Saviq, ah no sim then
[12:12] <Saviq> mzanetti, re: can't add a container around them
[12:12] <Saviq> mzanetti, I'd probably just go for x/y/widht/height
[12:12] <Saviq> mzanetti, or maybe left/top anchor  + width/height from the edit fields
[12:12] <Saviq> -s
[12:13] <Saviq> mzanetti, but I understand it might be fine as is
[12:13] <mzanetti> Saviq: well, the end result is the same now actually
[12:14] <karni> Saviq: would it be possible to enable cache for the images shown in previews? basically, we have scopes that use QNetworkDiskCache to cache requests, but when we pass URLs to scope result or preview, it would always fetch the image from the network. Could we somehow improve that?
[12:15] <karni> Saviq: If not, I think I found a workaround.. fetch the images manually, using QNetworkDiskCache (with limited size), and pass a local file url to the scope.
[12:15] <karni> Saviq: it's something I imagine the framework should do, but if we can't have that, at least there would be a way to speed things up
[12:16] <mzanetti> Saviq: https://code.launchpad.net/~unity-team/unity8/scope-customizations/+merge/225170/comments/542940
[12:17] <Saviq> karni, https://code.launchpad.net/~unity-team/unity8/cache-network-data/+merge/224995
[12:18] <Saviq> karni, merged yesterday ;)
[12:19] <karni> Saviq: WOHOOO!!
[12:19] <karni> Saviq: awesomesauce!
[12:22] <Saviq> mzanetti, IMA hides search even if it's not empty - it should only hide on empty
[12:22] <mzanetti> d'oh! fixing...
[12:22] <Saviq> mzanetti, states! ;P
[12:23] <Saviq> karni, there's still a delay to actually hit up the server and check for validity
[12:23] <Saviq> karni, but if the servers are configured right, it should not even do that
[12:23] <Saviq> (too often)
[12:24] <Saviq> mzanetti, apt-cache policy qtdeclarative5-ubuntu-ui-toolkit-plugin ?
[12:25] <mzanetti> Saviq: what would be in there?
[12:25] <Saviq> mzanetti, should be 20140702.1 or so
[12:25] <mzanetti> Saviq: so it didn't have the pageheader when I tried 2 hours ago
[12:25] <mzanetti> so now I have the packages with the pageheader installed
[12:25] <Saviq> mzanetti, ah right
[12:25] <Saviq> mzanetti, that's why
[12:26] <Saviq> you have wrong icons
[12:26] <mzanetti> but aren't the icons in another package?
[12:26] <mzanetti> ubuntu-mobile-icons or similar?
[12:26] <Saviq> mzanetti, you're missing uitk changes
[12:26] <Saviq> mzanetti, that switch to the suru theme
[12:26] <Saviq> mzanetti, and the icons I used are not there in ubuntu-mobile
[12:26] <mzanetti> ah ok
[12:28] <karni> Saviq: ack, thanks :)
[12:34] <facundobatista> Holas
[12:40] <Saviq> \o
[12:42] <Saviq> oh yay, segfault
[12:46] <Saviq> ha
[12:46] <Saviq> mzanetti, ok, you need to fix testDashContent, not myself ;P
[12:50] <Saviq> mzanetti, and still Needs fixing on new-header
[12:50] <mzanetti> Saviq: ok
[12:50] <Saviq> /food
[12:57] <MacSlow> greyback, hey there
[12:57] <greyback> MacSlow: hi
[12:58] <MacSlow> greyback, is it expected to not be able to run any mir-client (and mir-server) on current radeon-based systems?
[12:58] <greyback> MacSlow: have you Catalyst installed (the non-free driver)?
[12:58] <MacSlow> greyback, OpenSource-driver of course... I'm getting this "libEGL warning: unsupported platform (null)"
[12:59] <MacSlow> greyback, I tried the mir_demo_server_basic and mir_demo_server_translucent sofar
[12:59] <greyback> MacSlow: try setting "EGL_PLATFORM=mir"
[12:59] <MacSlow> greyback, ok... trying now
[12:59] <greyback> I had thought it shouldn't be necessary any more, but maybe
[13:01] <MacSlow> greyback, nope... still getting the same error
[13:02] <greyback> MacSlow: any other errors?
[13:02] <greyback> it is crashing?
[13:02] <greyback> where are you running it from? You need to be in a VT
[13:03] <MacSlow> greyback, I am on VTs
[13:04] <MacSlow> greyback, starting mir_demo_server_basic on VT1... switching to VT2 and starting my client program (the unity-system-compositor-spinner)
[13:04] <MacSlow> greyback, with EGL_PLATFORM=mir ./unity-system-compositor-spinner
[13:04] <MacSlow> greyback, this used to work just fine a few weeks back
[13:05] <greyback> MacSlow: ok then something changed. You'd better ask the Mir guys, it's beyond me
[13:05] <MacSlow> greyback, ok
[13:14] <MacSlow> greyback, just tried other mir-clients... they work :/
[13:19] <greyback> MacSlow: you recompiled it? mir 0.4.0 landed with client-facing API changes...
[13:21] <MacSlow> greyback, I pull updates and recompiled... I think :)
[13:21]  * MacSlow checks
[13:31] <MacSlow> greyback, still not working
[13:32] <greyback> MacSlow: is it crashing? Is it hanging? Any more debug output? Did you try turning on component reports (http://unity.ubuntu.com/mir/component_reports.html)
[13:33] <MacSlow> greyback, it's just not starting... I'll try the ltt-reporting to see if that gives any clues
[13:34] <greyback> MacSlow: it exists cleanly?
[13:34] <greyback> exits
[13:34] <MacSlow> greyback, yup
[13:34] <karni> Saviq: Is it possible to uncollapse a preview text by default?
[13:34] <greyback> MacSlow: that's odd.
[13:37] <MacSlow> greyback, that's all the output I'm getting from my mir-client on the VT http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/7747141
[13:48] <dednick> Cimi: would you mind reviewing https://code.launchpad.net/~nick-dedekind/ubuntu-settings-components/transfer-menu/+merge/224672
[13:50] <Cimi> yes
[13:50] <MacSlow> greyback, hm... I did run mir-server and my mir-client with lttng but the result doesn't seem to contain much
[14:14] <Saviq> karni, will be
[14:15] <Saviq> karni, once we implement the expandable widget, text alone will be expanded by default, only if you put it in an expandable will it collapse
[14:20] <karni> Saviq: ah, cool!
[14:43] <mzanetti> Saviq: one more question:
[14:43] <mzanetti> searchfield focused, empty, popup open
[14:43] <mzanetti> user taps on the IMA
[14:43] <mzanetti> popup hides
[14:43] <mzanetti> shoudl the searchfield unfocus and hide in the same tap?
[14:43] <mzanetti> or should hiding popup and hiding search still be 2 steps?
[14:44] <Saviq> mzanetti, good question
[14:44] <mzanetti> I changed it here to do both in one
[14:44] <mzanetti> seems better to me
[14:44] <Saviq> mzanetti, probably both
[14:44] <Saviq> mzanetti, yeah
[14:44] <mzanetti> ack
[14:46] <mzanetti> Saviq: you said something about testDash?
[14:46] <mzanetti> not passing for you?
[14:46] <Saviq> mzanetti, testDashContent
[14:46] <mzanetti> ah
[14:46] <Saviq> mzanetti, 10 fails
[14:47] <Saviq> mzanetti, there's tabBar something
[14:47] <mzanetti> ack. missed that one. will fix
[14:47] <Saviq> mzanetti, I'll actually kick a full run here
[14:53] <mzanetti> at tests suites like DashContent I'm really happy about the FUNCTION= feature
[14:55] <mzanetti> although test_departments would also require a LINE= feature :D
[15:01] <MacSlow> greyback, what's the correct way to start a mir-client on a device
[15:01] <greyback> MacSlow: with unity8 running as the mir server?
[15:02] <MacSlow> greyback, no... unity-system-compositor is in control iirc
[15:02] <greyback> MacSlow: check if MIR_SOCKET=/run/mir_socket is set
[15:03] <greyback> note that unity8 is a mir server too, it is both a mir server and a client of USC (i.e. is a 'nested' server(
[15:04] <MacSlow> greyback, MIR_SOCKET isn't set...
[15:04] <greyback> MacSlow: then try setting it, or else use the -m switch - equivalent actions
[15:05] <MacSlow> greyback, just trying to do "sudo ./unity-system-compositor-spinner -m /run/mir_socket" fails similarly to what I'm seeing on the my desktop
[15:06] <Saviq> dednick, https://code.launchpad.net/~nick-dedekind/unity8/transfer-menu/+merge/224673/comments/543028, there's inline, too
[15:06] <greyback> MacSlow:  MIR_SOCKET=/run/mir_socket /usr/bin/unity-system-compositor-spinner <- works for me
[15:07] <greyback> MacSlow: also note, running as sudo, if it crashes, you don't see the "aborted" message
[15:09] <MacSlow> greyback, hm... MIR_SOCKET=/run/mir_socket /usr/bin/unity-system-compositor-spinner doesn't fail or exit... but I still don't see anything...
[15:09] <MacSlow> greyback, the greeter is unresponsive to any touch-input
[15:09] <MacSlow> has to be something else that got broken
[15:09] <greyback> MacSlow: set "MIR_CLIENT_RPC_REPORT=log " in your env & try again. Does it report once per frame?
[15:10] <greyback> MacSlow: it's possible USC isn't bringing the spinner to the front
[15:12] <MacSlow> greyback, ok... restarted my N10...
[15:13] <greyback> MacSlow: super simple test: "sudo stop lightdm" to kill USC. Then "mir_demo_server_shell&" and "MIR_SOCKET=/run/user/32011/mir_socket /usr/bin/unity-system-compositor-spinner"
[15:13] <MacSlow> greyback, with MIR_CLIENT_RPC_REPORT=log I got feedback "Invocation succeeded: id: 256 method_name: next_buffer ..." etc
[15:14] <greyback> yep that's good, means client requesting new buffers for each frame & mir is giving them to it
[15:14] <greyback> however it may be that USC simply is not making the spinner surface visible
[15:15] <greyback> I've never dug into USC code, I don't know how it decides what surfaces to show at what times
[15:15] <MacSlow> greyback, no mir_demo_server_shell on the N10... have to grab and copile it
[15:15] <greyback> MacSlow: apt-get install mir-demos
[15:15] <MacSlow> ok
[15:15] <mzanetti> Saviq: DashContent tests fixed
[15:16] <MacSlow> greyback, too badk mterry has a bank-holiday today :)
[15:16] <Saviq> mzanetti, how's testShell on your end?
[15:16] <Saviq> 3 fail here
[15:16] <Saviq> on search indicator, so kinda make sense
[15:16] <Saviq> probably just for removal
[15:17] <mzanetti> Saviq: confirmed. fixing...
[15:17] <MacSlow> greyback, ah ok... that's a way to test it... works
[15:19] <mzanetti> ok. tst_Shell fixed
[15:21] <greyback> MacSlow: only danger is that you'll not be profiling the actual scenario, but a different scenario (i.e. not with USC)
[15:21] <greyback> MacSlow: I don't anticipate and major rendering differences between USC and mir_demo_server_shell, but just be cautious
[15:21] <MacSlow> greyback, yeah... just saw that the spinner doesn not show up in the process-list of top...
[15:22] <MacSlow> but only the mir_demo_server_shell
[15:22] <MacSlow> greyback, which defeats the purpose of my intention... to bring down (and verify) CPU-load of the spinner
[15:23] <greyback> MacSlow: indeed. It was step to determine if the fact you could not see the spinner was due to your spinner code, or USC. Conclusion: USC was the blame
[15:24] <greyback> so USC must have some criterion to decide that the spinner surface should be visible
[15:24] <MacSlow> greyback, next issue that turned up is that the locally compiled unity-system-compositor-spinner segfaults while the system-wide one does not... just trying to grab a bt
[15:30] <Saviq> mzanetti, one awesome thing about our xvfb tests is that you can actually run them in parallel
[15:31] <Saviq> mzanetti, so a full suite is down to some 3 minutes for me or so
[15:31] <greyback> MacSlow: yeah USC is designed to launch the spinner itself, and only show the surface from the spinner that it launched. Other surfaces are only brought to the front when USC is told to by some third party via IPC somehow
[15:32] <greyback> whatever the heck DMConnection is
[15:32] <mzanetti> nice! trying
[15:32] <MacSlow> greyback, got the crash sorted out
[15:33] <dednick> Saviq: bulkTransferMenu is a generic "menu with button"
[15:33] <mzanetti> Saviq: just passing -j?
[15:34] <dednick> Saviq: although might switch it out for the USC.StandardMenu now.
[15:35] <Saviq> mzanetti, yup
[15:35] <Saviq> dednick, right, but it was named bulkTransferMenu ;)
[15:36] <Saviq> dednick, your call there, just pointing out, you know better
[15:36] <dednick> Saviq: :) ah. you mean from the indicator
[15:37] <dednick> Saviq: you mean the "com.canonical.indicator.transfer-bulk-action"
[15:37] <dednick> or the usage of it
[15:38] <Saviq> dednick, the ": transferBulkAction" just after
[15:38] <Saviq> dednick, although I understand the extra-label extattr might not be common enough
[15:38] <Saviq> dednick, but maybe we shouldn't even introduce transfer-bulk-action
[15:38] <dednick> Saviq: right. if we come across another menu which has the same data, i can change it.
[15:39] <dednick> Saviq: yeah.
[15:39] <Saviq> dednick, and instead tell them to use action-with-button
[15:39] <dednick> charles: ^ too late to change?
[15:41] <dednick> charles: "com.canonical.indicator.button-section" maybe
[15:44] <charles> dednick, so just renaming
[15:44] <dednick> charles: ya
[15:45] <charles> dednick, so just renaming "com.canonical.indicator.transfer-bulk-action" as "com.canonical.indicator.button-section" because the former is overly specific? Yes I can update the MP with that
[15:45] <dednick> charles: yes. that's the idea.
[15:45] <Saviq> mzanetti, ok well, I lied, 7 minutes, but still
[15:46] <mzanetti> hehe :)
[15:47] <mzanetti> Saviq: while we're running tests: https://code.launchpad.net/~mzanetti/unity8/fix-testPreview-20ppgu/+merge/225690
[15:48] <Saviq> mzanetti, I don't understand why
[15:48] <mzanetti> Saviq: I think unit.dp(1) != units.gu(0.1)
[15:48] <mzanetti> which might introduce such slight differences
[15:49] <mzanetti> meaning: units.dp() and units.gu() does not grow linear
[15:50] <mzanetti> well, linear yes, but not in parallel
[15:51] <Saviq> right
[15:51] <mzanetti> not sure I explain it right... did you understand what I mean?
[15:51] <Saviq> mzanetti, btw, timing failure in PageHeader http://people.canonical.com/~msawicz/unity8/testPageHeader.xml
[15:51] <Saviq> mzanetti, I can get it to fail like this when ran in parallel and then some
[15:51] <Saviq> mzanetti, if obvious - fix, otherwise leave bt
[15:51] <Saviq> be
[15:52] <mzanetti> I've seen this here with a wait(10000)
[15:52] <mzanetti> it failed after 16 seconds with this warning
[15:52] <mzanetti> saw it for the first time today
[15:52] <Saviq> mzanetti, I meant <failure message="function returned unexpected result    Actual   (): false    Expected (): true" result="fail"/> rather
[15:52] <mzanetti> ack
[15:52] <Saviq> mzanetti, think it just exited the test because it got blocked for too long?
[15:52] <mzanetti> need to look
[15:59] <mzanetti> what the... this doesn't make any sense
[16:19] <mzanetti> Saviq: that test was totally useless. I've dropped it and replaced it with one that tests the IMA I added lately
[16:22] <mzanetti> greyback: ouch... seen the bugs om26er_ reported?
[16:23] <mzanetti> the osk one mainly
[16:24] <greyback> mzanetti: 'below unity' - I don't understand
[16:24] <mzanetti> greyback: below the indicators drop down most likely
[16:24] <mzanetti> pull down
[16:24] <greyback> mzanetti: he's right, OSK is under the indicators. Oops!
[16:24] <mzanetti> greyback: and hes kinda right with the dash schrolling performanche. although I don't see how that is related
[16:25] <greyback> mzanetti: we're switching rendering architectures, so it probably is related
[16:25] <greyback> om26er_: good catches all, please keep it coming!
[16:51]  * greyback EOW
[16:51] <greyback> o/
[17:17] <dednick> Saviq: with the maximumHeight/preferredHeight, was your comment related only to height, or width as well?


[15:41] <Nickwiz> Trying to boot lubuntu from a USB (live / not install), but no X session is started.
[15:42] <Nickwiz> I can log in to tty. Is there a X or login start routine?


[00:02] <gary_poster> huwshimi, sorry went in and out with other obligations.  qa is good, code looks good.  could you lbox propose again so rietveld shows the new changes?  I will then give LGTM.  YOu can land yourself, right?
[00:02] <gary_poster> Or do you need me to?
[00:03] <huwshimi> Will do. I can land (assuming it works).
[00:03] <gary_poster> huwshimi, cool thanks.  btw did you mean to hide the search when you minimize?
[00:03] <gary_poster> that functionality isn't ready yet maybe?
[00:03] <huwshimi> gary_poster: Yeah, the search doesn't work yet (so removed it).
[00:04] <huwshimi> gary_poster: It also looks from that prototype that the search will be for the canvas when the sidebar is minimised.
[00:04] <gary_poster> huwshimi yeah I asked luca about that.  he said he simply wanted the priorities reversed
[00:04] <gary_poster> so
[00:04] <gary_poster> when the sidebar or fullscreen is open
[00:05] <gary_poster> you get charm search results first, and canvas/environment service results second
[00:05] <gary_poster> when it is minimized
[00:05] <gary_poster> services are first and charms are second
[00:05] <huwshimi> Ah I see
[00:05] <gary_poster> I wouldn't be surprised if what you have now is what we can deliver for OSCON in this regard
[00:06] <gary_poster> but we'll see
[00:07] <huwshimi> gary_poster: We have no autocomplete at all at the moment
[00:08] <gary_poster> huwshimi, yeah.  I'm not sure if autocomplete is required or not for that.
[00:08] <huwshimi> gary_poster: Changes should be there now...
[00:09] <gary_poster> huwshimi, yes, looking thank you
[00:12] <gary_poster> huwshimi, LGTM
[00:12] <huwshimi> gary_poster: Thankyou.
[00:12] <gary_poster> thank you huwshimi!
[00:13] <gary_poster> have a good week
[00:13] <huwshimi> gary_poster: Thanks you too
[00:13] <gary_poster> hatch fwiw trunk will be ready for 0.7.2 once huwshimi's branch lands, I think :-)
[00:23] <huwshimi> gary_poster, hatch: Merged.
[14:02]  * hatch walks into an empty office
[19:48] <rick_h> benji: still need anything?
[20:31] <hatch> hey rick_h
[22:59] <huwshimi> Morning


[17:32] <phillw> Hi folks, why does this occur ?
[17:32] <phillw> ali@amjjawad:~/src$ sudo apt-get source linux-image-$(uname -r)
[17:32] <phillw> Reading package lists... Done
[17:32] <phillw> Building dependency tree
[17:32] <phillw> Reading state information... Done
[17:32] <phillw> Picking 'linux-upstream' as source package instead of 'linux-image-3.13.5'
[17:32] <phillw> E: Unable to find a source package for linux-upstream
[17:46] <infinity> phillw: Because there is no source package corresponding to the kernel you're running?
[17:47] <infinity> phillw: If "uname -r" is reporting 3.13.5, that's not an Ubuntu kernel, I'm not sure how you expect apt to magically find the source to a kernel it didn't install.
[17:47] <phillw> infinity: I tried ali@amjjawad:~/src$ sudo apt-get source linux-image-linux 3.13.0-18.38
[17:47] <phillw> Reading package lists... Done
[17:47] <phillw> Building dependency tree
[17:47] <phillw> Reading state information... Done
[17:47] <phillw> E: Unable to find a source package for linux-image-linux
[17:47] <phillw> ]
[17:48] <infinity> Pretty sure you can figure out what's wrong with your second example without my help.
[17:48] <phillw> which is what I need, but the VM is a server install and not a DE. This has bitten me on the bum before :)
[17:49] <phillw> infinity: I'm taking the easy(ish) route of installing DE lubuntu and then using terminal access to it do work.... Does that sound logical?
[17:50] <infinity> phillw: Pretty sure this is entirely the wrong channel to ask for basic apt-get and packaging help.
[17:50] <infinity> And what terminal you use is completely irrelevant.
[17:51] <phillw> infinity: the server kernel is
[17:51] <phillw>  uname -a
[17:51] <phillw> Linux amjjawad 3.13.5 #1 SMP Wed Mar 5 23:17:34 GMT 2014 i686 i686 i686 GNU/Linux
[17:51] <phillw> ali@amjjawad:~/src$
[17:51] <phillw> which is not the -18 release
[17:52] <phillw> the server kernel seems totally out of step with the DE one.
[17:57] <infinity> phillw: Look, I'm not trying to be a jerk here, but if you can't sort out the basics of which kernel a computer is running, and how to make "apt-get source" go, do you really think you're the best man to maintain a fork of the Ubuntu kernel for 5 years?
[17:59] <phillw> infinity: I've been a tester for 5 years... if ubuntu cannot keep their kernels in sync during testing, how do you expect anyone to actually commit the time to for a kernel for 6 years, when you've already been tild it is not an lts kernel?
[18:00] <infinity> Did any of that sentence make sense?
[18:01] <infinity> We keep our kernels in sync, but we don't magically keep them in sync with what you have installed.  The archive marches forward.
[18:01] <infinity> As for "not an lts kernel", pretty sure our support commitment for 5 years tells a different story.
[18:02] <phillw> ubuntu kernel team are on their own with 3.13
[18:03] <infinity> They know.
[18:04] <phillw> indeed,, and I can build .deb from it. What seems to be the issue is that I offered to make the non-pae kernel available to others and would update it within about 48 hours. The best way to do that was to make it available by PPA. It looks less and less likely that I will get the help to make that happen.
[18:05] <phillw> the simple fact that server kernel is <> to desktop kernel is already a major snag.
[18:06] <phillw> I've dedicated a VM and ipV4 as a build machine... seems little help coming back :(
[18:07] <phillw> * end rant*
[18:07] <infinity> phillw: The kernel *running* on the build host has no bearing on the kernel you're BUILDING.
[18:08] <phillw> infinity: it does if you follow https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/BuildYourOwnKernel :P
[18:08] <phillw> apt-get source linux-image-$(uname -r)
[18:09] <JanC> that's for rebuilding the current kernel with different options, I guess
[18:09] <infinity> phillw: That wiki page assumes a little bit of intelligence, and the ability to rewrite "linux-image-(uname -r)" as "linux-image-[TheOneIReallyWant]"
[18:09] <JanC> you want the latest available kernel
[18:09] <infinity> phillw: If all you're doing is blindly following instructions, I don't think anyone should ever run the output of your kernel builds.
[18:10] <phillw> infinity: and I tried 3.13.0-18-generic
[18:10] <infinity> phillw: Furthermore, there's more to making a *different* kernel flavour than just grabbing the source and recompiling.
[18:12] <phillw> indeed there is. but build the kernel I can do for non-pae.... It was not originally planned for me to offer a non-pae kernel for other teams that deal with old computers, but I seem to have been roped into it.
[18:12] <infinity> So, get unroped.
[18:13] <infinity> Who "roped" you into it?  The only person I've seen talking about you doing this is you.
[18:13] <phillw> I was not on the tech-board when they dropped non-pae
[18:17] <phillw> lubuntu support older machines. I'll just stay with keeping an non-pae kernel for other teams... Arguing and fighting sucked all my energey out the las time... No wonder bodhi-zazen left and moved to ferdora... you are too busy to help - no new people being encouraged.. hence the end of ubuntu beginners team... No apprentices? ... it will die.
[18:19] <infinity> phillw: This is the ubuntu-kernel channel, not the ubuntu-beginners channel.  Just saying.
[18:21] <phillw> infinity: there is no ubuntu-beginners channel.. there is also NO way for people to be mentored and learn. This will mean that ubuntu will die of old age as there is no system in place to bring 'new blood' in... Not my call, just a major mess up.
[18:28] <phillw> I beg, nag people I knew for assistance and document up everything that they tell me. you complain as to the instructions I was given by the founder of ubuntu-beginners-team who is now fedora person. He provided me with instructions the make .deb files for a non-pae kernel. what he does not have time for is get a decent set of instructions to add the source to make the files when you are telling to ignore http://packaging.ubuntu.com/html/getting-
[18:28] <infinity> phillw: I've mentored a lot of people, but I also expect a base level of reading comprehension and problem solving skills.  If you copy and paste EVERY ERROR MESSAGE YOU SEE and expect someone else to solve it for you, you're not cut out for this.
[18:30] <phillw> infinity: the error message was 'are you in source area'... I've asked what extra do I need? ... with no dis-respect, I have looked up and offered up what I thought would be correct...
[18:31] <phillw> if my checking is not suffifient... c'est la vie. I've done the research I can do....
[18:35] <JanC> phillw: you got a typo in your attempt to get the latest Ubuntu kernel, and infinity is saying you should be able to see that from the error message yourself
[18:35] <JanC> eh
[20:50] <stag019> apw: new comment https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1295032
[20:50] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1295032 in linux (Ubuntu) "3840x2160 fails with 30Hz with HDMI" [Medium,Triaged]
[21:29] <apw> stag019, nope, i just checked that that kernel has the commit you indicated fixed the issue applied
[21:30] <stag019> that's odd, could i have done anything wrong on my part?
[21:51] <apw> stag019, well it just means that the fix indicated is not sufficient to fix the issue on its own and we have no information as to what else is needed


[17:40] <pleia2> rough draft, please edit, re-write, etc etc: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UserDaysTeam/Introduction
[18:37] <Pendulum> pleia2: sorry, I was/am on a skype call about some UW stuff, but that looks good to me :)
[18:38] <Pendulum> what needs to go into the lernid bit?
[18:42] <Pendulum> because I can write it if I know generally how much detail needs to go in
[18:47] <doctormo> pleia2:  morning
[18:49] <Pendulum> hiya doctormo
[18:54] <AlanBell> oh, I just did a bit on Lernid
[18:54] <doctormo> Hey AlanBell and Pendulum
[18:56] <AlanBell> hey doctormo
[22:20] <pleia2> Pendulum: re: lernid stuff, I've never actually used it so whoever is familiar with it can write a little thing I guess