[07:32] <lordievader> Good morning.
[10:56] <BluesKaj> Hey folks
[10:57] <penguin42> Hey BK
[10:58] <penguin42> hmm, doesn't that title need updating ?
[12:51] <BluesKaj> hey penguin42, yeah, and there is no ubuntu dev OS either :)


[00:25] <ubports_bot> Project daily-hammerhead build #302: SUCCESS in 11 min: http://ci.ubports.com/job/daily-hammerhead/302/
[00:27] <ubports_bot> Project ota-push build #920: SUCCESS in 1 min 45 sec: http://ci.ubports.com/job/ota-push/920/
[03:20] <tgBot> <Eureka Algorithm> Hello, would someone be willing to helpe me set up clickable? … https://forums.ubports.com/topic/511/properly-installing-clickable
[04:07] <tgBot> MFota was added by: MFota
[04:42] <tgBot> <Andre Büsgen> @Eureka Algorithm, What distro are you using? For me the guide only worked on ubuntu
[04:49] <tgBot> <Eureka Algorithm> Andre I'm using KDE
[04:50] <tgBot> <Andre Büsgen> Do you mean the desktop environment or KDE neon?
[04:53] <tgBot> <Eureka Algorithm> KDE neon
 What exactly doesn't work for you?
[05:13] <tgBot> <Andre Büsgen> As it seems the setup was successful
[05:19] <tgBot> <Andre Büsgen> The commands should work. Have you tried building for example the calendar app?
[05:57] <ubports_bot> Project vivid-rootfs-armhf build #108: SUCCESS in 1 hr 30 min: http://ci.ubports.com/job/vivid-rootfs-armhf/108/
[06:05] <ubports_bot> Project ota-push build #921: SUCCESS in 7 min 37 sec: http://ci.ubports.com/job/ota-push/921/
 For all those people who are too young to remember ;) https://opensource.com/article/17/8/linux-anniversary
 I am younger then linux!
 Haha
 When did you start @Flohack
 My first Linux was SuSE Linux 4.2 in 1996 ;)
 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SUSE_Linux_distributions#/media/File:SuSE_Linux_4.2_Paket_Handbuch_und_CDs.jpg
 Nice!
 My first experience with Linux was in  2001 on our family computer :)
 I was around 6 years old
 cool
 My father showed me a lots of stuff on Linux and I was really excited about that :D
 My first contact with linux was sitting next to a friend seeing him doing incredible cool things in terminal in 1987. But it needs until 2007 for me to switch from win to Ubuntu...
[08:23] <ubports_bot> Project daily-fp2 build #321: SUCCESS in 13 min: http://ci.ubports.com/job/daily-fp2/321/
[08:25] <ubports_bot> Project ota-push build #922: SUCCESS in 1 min 12 sec: http://ci.ubports.com/job/ota-push/922/
[09:24] <tgBot> skrech was added by: skrech
 welcome @skrech
 Welcome :)
 Hey guys!
 no way to set an alarm here... any idea? the BottomEdge doesn't work at all, never visible...
 (Photo, 540x960) https://irc.ubports.com/7qVZJWNU/file_291.jpg
 \o
 I am older than Linux (much older). I started using it in 2006 with Ubuntu Dapper Drake.
 @BrisPete, What was it like?  A world before Linux?
 Was it dark and without joy? I bet it was dark and without joy.
 @PhoenixLandPirate, Lots of blue with white text
 @Lorxu, basically what i said
 Beautiful
 (Document) https://irc.ubports.com/ys9EKbrj/file_292.mp4
 @PhoenixLandPirate, Accurate footage of the world before Linux
 @PhoenixLandPirate, that's pretty hi-res for 1992
 @neothethird, Surprising how much better government technology is, over the stuff us commoners use.
 yeah, let's grab some pitforks and torches
 @neothethird, Well, it is bright blue :P
 well... there was also green...
 http://www.coaching-tecnologico.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/monitor_fosforo_verde.jpg
 Can it run Crysis? ;D
 @neothethird, I agree!
[11:01] <tgBot> <Stefan Kalb> @neothethird, I was used to travel with WARP speed before big blue decided to withdraw it from users. But I had no fear to be able to further avoid the blue madness and my hopes became true with a chameleonized penguin in 1997.
 @Stefan Kalb, without the context, that sentence would sound really weird
[11:03] <tgBot> sandervoogt was added by: sandervoogt
 @LarreaMikel, great game!
 Welcome :)
 Thanks
 I tried searching "prehistoric", that I think is one of the first games I've played... but no luck.
 https://twitter.com/UBports/status/901860283697725440 lol, poor UBPorts
 I retweeted this with the phrase "A Free Software tragedy in two tweets" :P
 I can't see what it was a reply to cos I'm blocked :D
 (Photo, 720x1280) https://irc.ubports.com/BiqLQtnu/file_294.jpg
 (Photo, 586x459) https://irc.ubports.com/QSAsFnE4/file_296.jpg
 @PhoenixLandPirate, Wow, even I haven't managed that and I bitched a lot about Electron on tweets :P
 why do they ignore our community?
 @garrogarri, There may have been some drama around one of his posts when Canonical still had Ubuntu Touch
 @Lorxu, I know I'm brilliant
 @garrogarri, Maybe they're just not aware of how much Ubuntu Touch does
 UBPorts I mean, of course, derp
[12:55] <ubports_bot> Project daily-mako build #96: SUCCESS in 12 min: http://ci.ubports.com/job/daily-mako/96/
[12:56] <ubports_bot> Project ota-push build #923: SUCCESS in 53 sec: http://ci.ubports.com/job/ota-push/923/
 @Dalton Durst — Finally fixed my BQ4.5. Reflashed system with use of magic-device-tool, no problems this time. I suspect damaged usb cable was the issue. Thanks all for greate work on ubports!
 Today i learned: `@Dalton` is a telegram channel called "Farham Fucker". The more you know.
 Haha, nice investigation Jan. 🙂
 Haha, right..
 @Lorxu, While both is somehow true, we want to brand the product "Ubuntu Touch", and we are the UBports organization :)
[14:00] <nfsprodriver[m]> Hello, in latest image in the channel settings there are no channels listed. Sorry, if this is already known.
 @neothethird, With 3 messages
 @PhoenixLandPirate, Well there was certainly lots of green text on a black background. Worked as a computer operator c. 1974 on an CL 1905E running the George 3 OS. Lots of cards, paper tape, huge hard drives line printers, plotters and crashes. A lot of heavy lifting - literally. Fun though.
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwzJlvx4ndk
 I have a question (I don't know whether it's dumb or not), whereas the Plasma Mobile guys have gotten the Nexus 5x running their OS (I don't know how well...), what are the odds of UBPorts running on the N5x in the near future? … The Plasma mobile guys are using Halium, and I think I remember hearing that UBPorts was/is/going to use it, too. … Thanks in advance .
 P.S. I ask because, 1. I have a N5x and 2. The N5x is a modern phone and would go a long way in selling the project to a number of users...
 My Nexus 5 works really slow on UBports (it's in terrible condition by itself). On the other hand, my 5x is still great and I wouldn't mind using it. Plasma is a solid option for me on the 5x.
 @vanyasem, You're running Plasma on your 5x?
 Well, I don't use 5x by itself, I just have Plasma installed.
 I'm mainly on HTC 10 with LineageOS (no gapps)
 @vanyasem, I played with it for a few days thougj
 you can PM me for more info
 @vanyasem, and you feel pretty good about it?
 @vanyasem, OK, I'm at work at present, but I would like to continue learning more...
 and i'm a little drunk and eating my pizza.
 @mariogrip, I don't like google.. But i don't  like also this guy.. He is been teaching at university that mycrosoft is much more beautiful than gnu/linux..
 oh, i am literally watching this video rn
 i have a local nextcloud server on a 9-years old PC and it replaces the entire Gsuite
 music streaming, cloud, office, calendar, contacts, tasks, notes, even trello-like boards
 pm me if you have any questions to me
 @andreasimonetti, Lunduke is a "personality"... Not sure u can take him ever seriously. Who remember him from LAS should know what's the story.
 Lunduke's personality (IMO) is good for Linux and OSS in general. He talks about the elephant in the room(s) of several projects and does it in a way that's not all that offensive.  … Granted, he's NOT right about everything and I disagree with him a lot, but I have to admit that he's right on about a number of things. … That would include the UX of several projects that honestly SUCK.
 Yep, agree with you.
 ...just don't mention Richard Stalman around him :))
 Lunduke aside, I've LOST my Nexus 4!!!! I can't test the new updates from UBPorts!! Was up until 1am trying to find it (we just moved to a new house and everything's in boxes)
 @S_Greg, He's had Stallman on the Lunduke show already. Apparently, they've kissed and made up
 If it is in a box it isn't lost
 @Stereofont, but the box is lost....
 Google will know which box
 haha probably!
 @S_Greg, I watched old las's with him in it, but I don't know the story at all tbh
 @PhoenixLandPirate, There was a falling out between he and ChrisLAS. They've never spoken about it openly and they are pretty frog lipped about it as I asked specifically and was told not to ask about Bryan anymore.  … So, I would chalk it up to personal differences.
 @kz6fittycent, Frogs have lips?
 @kz6fittycent, Yeah I heard that, but Lunduke was on Las once last year I believe as a guest. So idk what they're like these days
 Has anyone attempted to port (on their own) UBPorts or UTouch to their personal device?  … IF so, was it recently? Meaning did you use Halium (if that's even possible yet) and did you follow a guide or are you freaking amazing and did it all on your own?
 @PhoenixLandPirate, Yeah I saw that, too. I don't watch LAS anymore as I don't like the format and ChrisLAS bothers me... … I DO really like listening to Noah so my JB experience stops there.
 Define 'on their own'
 @Stereofont, By themselves I'd assume
 @Stereofont, Superhuman intellect and didn't need no stinkin guide!
 Oh. Negative then
 I ask because I want to see the Nexus 5x running UBPorts (as I own one) and I'm almost ready to make the attempt on my own. Was wondering if anyone has seen a really good, COMPLETE guide to porting UTouch to a device. They all seem to lack this or that or are really old.
 Well, we are trying to move to Halium, no device has a fully working port of Halium though, the closest we have is the n5 which boots but not close to ready.
 It should be like a virus modifying DNA. Does all the hard work then you zap the virus. Job done
 @Stereofont, True.
 @PhoenixLandPirate, I remember someone talking about that on Lunduke's show.  … I was curious as the progress there since the Plasma Mobile guys have it running on the N5x
 @Stereofont, Wouldn't that be awesome??
 Referencing this: … https://plasma-mobile.org/nexus-5/
 @kz6fittycent, Unfortunately it could be used to install cancer, rather than eliminate it. A virus has no morality
 @Stereofont, neither do many humans, it turns out...
 @kz6fittycent, Certain orange persons especially
 Better no mention of that guy though or the thread will get long and ugly
 I also have an old tablet (cheap one I bought for one of my kids) that I am looking to attempt porting UbPorts to
 @kz6fittycent, If devices would follow a standard then such a guide would exist. But currently the complete guide is: Find a Lineage that works for your device, build a tree with it. Fix all friggn compile issues until you get clean boot img and system img. Use rootstock to push all stuff to the device, then pray. In most cases days and days will pass until you even get adb to work, let alone graphics. Sorry, thats the guide
 @Flohack, wow...
 Made more complicated by the desire to use the newest device
 yeah
 sigh...
 Fairphone is interesting because modular but not modular enough
 it's modular mostly to be easer to be recicled, and repaired
 not so much to be enhanced
 Exactly. X with X. Not X with Y
 @kz6fittycent, I tried with 2 devices, ofc I know maybe not the best ones. HTC One X (to show it would run on an old device) and Samsung S3. Both are work in progress, no gpu, no real usable thing. But both were booting actually
 What would you recommend (chip second hand option) to replace bq4.5? Clicks are gone so something that will do new images?
 *cheep
 **cheap
 Cheap, but firt hand one?
 BQ Android models?
 It's the same, for UBports
 No, not BQ. Don't think UBports can be installed in other bq's than 4.5, 5  and tablet.. whatever the name was. From my understanding bq is a history now..
 BQ M10 (F)HD
 BQ seem not aggressively opposed to modification. They even provide flash tools
 BQ is very Free Software Friendly, that doesn't mean that chancing proprietary software that very likely doesn't belong to BQ
 is legal, or safe
 I mean only that it is a better starting point than phones made by hostile giant corporations?
 @DiogoConstantino, If they would be so freindly why we do not get the kernel source trees we need to support 16.04 on all devices?
 That's not a starting point at all
 @Flohack have you tried to ask for it?
 they do publish lot's of code
 @DiogoConstantino, I will, but it is very hard to get hold of people that know smth.
 ah
 I didn't say they were the greatest since sliced bread. Better than most others though
 I do know someone that might be able to help you stablishing that communication
 UTouch on a Surface RT ^^
 @Ben, if it includes that touch keyboard, you can leave now
 Tap Tiago Carrondo he had contact with people from BQ
 he's not on the super-group
 Then I would add EU funding for a privacy phone project
 but he's on the group, or at least on the fairphone port group
 I tried to engage them on twitter but the person that replied didn't understood at all what I said
 I also did it for Meizu
 no reply at all
 It would be cool if everybody did the same
 I have 2 BQ E4.5 Ubuntu Edition, one BQ E5 Ubuntu Edition, one BQ M10 FHD Ubuntu Edition and one Meizu Pro5 Ubuntu Edition, besides the Fairphone
 so I would really like for them to help ubports
 lot's of money invested on these devices
 I'm asking for cheap, usable hardware as 400-600e for new one - which project is focused now - is a IMO to high starting price for too many ppl. Especially for installation on ROM in development. I know there's a reason for that but marketing UBports for second hand hardware would have much better success.
 I have also 3 devices, but I cant find the BQ 10 FHD Tablet :(
 PureOS better talk to UBports and Halium
 @DiogoConstantino, Ok thx
 @S_Greg, The Nexus 5 and oneplus one are very much secondhand devices
 Aaron that would be cool
 the more people working towards common goals the better even if they keep having their own thing
 @S_Greg, 150-200 euros seems a comfortable place, old or new. Lower great if possible
 @UniversalSuperBox, Thank you
 @Stereofont, ..and thank you.
 @Ben, hello show me the proofs
 This was a suggestion ;)
 @Ben, Why UTouch and not just ubuntu with yunit? :\
 Ubuntu for arm?
 Yeah
 Hmm, but isnt the Surface RT closed for other OS? Because some people are writing these. :/
 If it's fully updated under Windows RT, yes. Otherwise it's possible to unlock the EFI.
 The Surface Pros are open for other OS, like Ubuntu
 Hmm I will try it :)
[20:23] <tgBot> <Milan Korecky> @UniversalSuperBox Hi Dalton, Pls help, I was capable to install Ubports on BQ but Nexus 5 lock state is: locked, I use 16.04
[20:25] <tgBot> <Milan Korecky> 16.04 on my notebook
 fastboot oem unlock
 Done
 @ahoneybun, Didn't work on my BQ
 He said Nexus 5
 Nexus devices are different then BQ crap
[20:28] <tgBot> <Milan Korecky> Yes but where can I do that
[20:33] <tgBot> <Milan Korecky> Do I need some app for unlocking?
 You need to install platform-tools from Android SDK. There is a fastboot executable.
 There are plenty of ways to to that. I believe it's even packaged in some distros repos.
 @vanyasem, On PC
 Yep, on your PC. All 3 platforms will do.
[20:37] <tgBot> <Milan Korecky> Ok
 ```ANDROID_SDK_TOOLS="3859397" … cd ~/Downloads/ … wget --quiet --output-document=android-sdk.zip https://dl.google.com/android/repository/sdk-tools-linux-${ANDROID_SDK_TOOLS}.zip … unzip android-sdk.zip … rm android-sdk.zip … echo y | tools/bin/sdkmanager "platform-tools"```
 you can use this script on GNU/Linux.
 it downloads Android SDK, unzips it in your user's downloads directory and installs platform-tools.
 I use this script on my CI build server.
 `fastboot` will be in `platform-tools/` folder. (You may need to chmod +x it before being able to run from the terminal)
[20:40] <tgBot> <Milan Korecky> Ok, I will try now step by step, give me some time, I am little slow
 take your time
[20:57] <tgBot> <Milan Korecky> Error Java_Home  is not setup ...
[20:58] <tgBot> <Milan Korecky> It looks like I have to install something else
 Sure, you need to install openJDK 8
 I assume you already have it installed.
 What distro do you use?
[20:59] <tgBot> <Milan Korecky> Ubuntu 16.04
[21:00] <tgBot> <Milan Korecky> I am very sorry
 @Milan Korecky, Perfect!
 My script is exactly for your distro.
 `sudo apt install -y wget tar unzip lib32stdc++6` … `sudo apt install -y openjdk-8-jdk libc6-dev-i386 lib32z1`
 run this to install all the deps
 (you can check out the full version here: https://gist.github.com/vanyasem/b4194b0db9c8fec75d78a3c9cd778412)
[21:02] <ubports_bot> Project daily-bacon build #252: SUCCESS in 11 min: http://ci.ubports.com/job/daily-bacon/252/
[21:03] <ubports_bot> Project ota-push build #924: SUCCESS in 58 sec: http://ci.ubports.com/job/ota-push/924/
 @vanyasem, I tested it on Ubuntu Server 16.04 and elementary OS (based on Ubuntu 16.04)
 can somebody tell me how to flash Plasma mobile on nexus 5, I follow the steps on web https://plasma-mobile.org/nexus-5/ but it's not workin for me :(
[21:38] <tgBot> Christoph B was added by: Christoph B
[21:40] <tgBot> <Milan Korecky> Hi, it could not find the lib32, but already installed, now again with ask
[21:40] <tgBot> <Milan Korecky> Sdk
 @Milan Korecky, You said you were on 16.04?
[21:44] <tgBot> <Milan Korecky> Yes, my laptop is 32 bit and I have ubuntu 16.04 lots
[21:44] <tgBot> <Milan Korecky> Lts
 I'm not sure for 32 bits though.
 I tested in only on 64 bit
 Library name may be different for x32
[21:46] <tgBot> <Milan Korecky> I am following now some YouTube tutorial
 @Milan Korecky, you can use the tools in the repository. `sudo apt install android-tools-adb android-tools-fastboot`
[21:48] <tgBot> <Milan Korecky> Sdk almost installed, just a moment, right now downloading components
 @UniversalSuperBox, True
[21:48] <tgBot> <Milan Korecky> Ok Dalton I will try
 I just hate that method
[21:48] <tgBot> <Milan Korecky> Ok Ivan
 I prefer installing SDK manually
 @vanyasem, I'd like to sincerely disagree with that statement. Especially when we don't use the SDK other than installing.
 It gives you more control on what version you want to get installed
 I'm an Android developer.
[21:49] <tgBot> <Milan Korecky> Fine do not worry I have learned something new
 @vanyasem, So I need that much power.
 Even then, there are minimal packages for just the tools rather than the entire SDK. And we aren't android devs. ;)
 As I know what I'm doing.
 @UniversalSuperBox, I didn't say you are wrong )
 Also
 My script install only tools, not the entire SDK as well
 You have an ability to decide what to install
[21:54] <tgBot> <Milan Korecky> Fine, now finished, let us unlocke
 (Document) https://irc.ubports.com/c7ldJ4Ry/file_298.mp4
[21:58] <tgBot> <Milan Korecky> Ok unlock success with Aaron help
 (Sticker, 512x512) https://irc.ubports.com/zFtNhXQ5/file_299.webp
 @mariogrip will the new kernelversion for N5 be in next devel image?
 @nfsprodriver, do you mean the one i just pushed?
 Yes
 yes, it will land in the next devel build
 @mariogrip, Cool
 Nice, I'll report the changes.
[22:01] <tgBot> <Milan Korecky> And now how to with the Fastboot, met does not find the device, cpt does not want to be installed
[22:01] <tgBot> <Milan Korecky> MDT
 @Milan Korecky, what OS do you use? Linux? if so try running it with sudo
 In case you missed it, we are now only 2 issues away from OTA-2: https://github.com/ubports/ubports-touch/milestone/2
 Woop woop!
 any chance you are going to switch your main repo location to self-hosted GitLab CE?
 and provide GitHub repos only as a mirror
 Why we would?
 to gain more control of what you do, GitHub is known to censor some repos they don't like
 Because then we sound like scientists.
 @vanyasem, really? never heard of that. What do they censor?
 @vanyasem, But it gives us endless protection of data and guards against downtime of our infra
 I use GitLab CE with GitLab CI with a runner, it pushes every commit back to GitHub, so more people can discorer the repo (Gogs is also an option, it's easier on the resources)
 but in case something happens — there is always a separate server with my own GitLab instance with all the users
 @neothethird, they banned a repo for using "retarted" in strings. And this is not the only occasion. They are doing lots of sketchy things. No freedom
 https://soylentnews.org/article.pl?sid=15/07/25/1049226
 Hmm, never came across that... For now it gives us a very high-quality system with no administrative effort for free, so that's pretty nice. If we ever have problems with them, i guess we would switch. but for now we have (imho) enough to do as it is... thanks for the hint though
[22:12] <ubports_bot> Project daily-hammerhead build #303: SUCCESS in 11 min: http://ci.ubports.com/job/daily-hammerhead/303/
 @Flohack, both GitHub and GitLab are down more often that my own server
 my server has a small amount of users compared to these giants
 I don't say instantly switch to self-hosted, it's just a suggestion to keep in mind for future scalability
[22:14] <ubports_bot> Project ota-push build #925: SUCCESS in 1 min 41 sec: http://ci.ubports.com/job/ota-push/925/
 also, GitHub is constantly being blocked (and unblocked again) in my country.
 check https://infogalactic.com/info/Censorship_of_GitHub#Russia for more info
 that's not their fault though
 sure, but still a valid thing to keep in mind for future changes
[22:17] <nfsprodriver[m]> Wow, new kernel is much faster! Great work!
 also, can I ask, why do we have two separate projects for 16.04 and 15.04 at the same time?
 I'm not sure which one to contribute to
 Because 15.04 is the one that Canonical was supporting at the end and it works, while 16.04 did not work
 And 16.04 still does not work
 I understand that, how this is going to be resolved? Should I contribute to 15.04 or 16.04? I'm a bit confused there
 If you understand the stack enough to debug it and solve its major issues in 16.04, go with that.
 It only officially runs on the Nexus 5
 Okay, I see what you got there.
 I have a N5 with UBports, so device support isn't a problem for me
 thank you
 usually 15.04 is the way to go, though
 that's what's usable
 Apps don't start on 16.04. Nor does the dash itself.
 I don't use UBports as my daily drives right now, so I don't care if it's usable or not
 I'm a developer and I'm willing to help
 @vanyasem, What are your skills ;)
 @vanyasem, awesome! knock yourself out: https://wiki.ubports.com/wiki/How-to-install-Ubuntu-Touch-16.04
 I don't have much experience with UBports, but I'm a professional android dev (both Java/Kotlin and Android NDK, I used to develop some simple custom ROMs for GT 10.1 on a Russian forum) and I used to write in Vala in the past. I'm a quick learner and I have a lot of spare time.  So I'm with you or in severe pain
 I have all 3 Nexuses from LG and I regret trying Sailfish or Plasma. Not even close to barely acceptable imo
 @vanyasem, we're glad to have you :)
 @vanyasem, Since we don't have docs.ubports.com completely in place and docs.ubuntu.com is very outdated, figuring stuff out alone can be pretty difficult... So be encouraged to ask (or rather tell us where we need to document better)
 will do, thanks
 @vanyasem, So do you prefer more to work on low level or high level?
 I'm more a high-level dev, but low-level is more fun to me, it feels adventurous. I don't have much experience with it though, but I'm really looking into it
 Ok then we put you on Halium + 16.04 train ;)
 @vanyasem, Have you looked at postmarketos?
 I'm currently writing a post to telegraph about running your phone in freedom to my Russian telegram channel, gonna give you a strong shoutout
 @Lorxu, nope, but, I guess, will do now
 thx!
 @vanyasem, I regret that
 I already regret that
 (Photo, 350x467) https://irc.ubports.com/e6LhMKbv/file_301.jpg
 Cool you cant read anything
 Its very sevure ^^
 I absolutely love the red tint
 We should add that as a feature to UBports
 😂
 @vanyasem, They're still very alpha but they're true Linux (not sure about GNU part)
 Not as locked down as UT
 Also, that is just one UI you can use. They're working on KDE Plasma Mobile and Unity and so, you just pick one like on the desktop
 Chance for mainstream success because of that: 0
 Hacker street cred: a nice amount
 @vanyasem, (Never saw a screenshot this red before though)
 It's from a Russian website
 Russian weirdos are always doing something weird
[23:31] <tgBot> Veronica was added by: Veronica
 Welcome Veronica !
 Hi @UniversalSuperBox !
 @Lorxu, Mainstream success goes hand in hand with easy, comprehensive UIs that people do not need to learn. Plus with really really really well tested stuff that does never break. Linux per se is not in that category
 Also, a lot of people I've talked to can't even install a language pack for Andorid Telegram. It's as easy as 3 clicks. So the OS has to be preinstalled on at least some phones to get mass attention.
 But seriously, are we really making this for the mass consumer? I don't think so.


[17:33] <philipballew> nhaines, I used a blog post you wrote a few days ago to get Hulu working on my laptop
[17:33] <philipballew> It was the one of the first google results when I searched my probem
[17:33] <philipballew> so thanks!
[18:24] <Roguehorse> In-laws are on a roll .... blocked me from The Linux Foundation site and Linux.com
[18:25] <Roguehorse> Divorce is getting *interesting* ... starting to move stuff out of the house
[18:28] <Roguehorse> I can still get to the Foundation website ... but only through Tor
[19:10] <philipballew> Roguehorse, seems like an odd site to block
[19:15] <Roguehorse> yeah well
[21:36] <nhaines> philipballew: glad to hear it!  :)
[21:36] <philipballew> yeah. now I can waste even more time.
[21:38] <nhaines> Haha, yeah, I was more productive for that week when Hulu wasn't working.  But now I can watch during lunch and stuff which boosts my effiency a little afterward.


[00:18] <greylica> Hi !
[00:19] <greylica> Are there developers here  ?
[00:20] <greylica> Thank you lubuntu developers !
[00:21] <greylica> No it's not a joke, yesterday I have been changing my distro, and after some tweaks, I can say that I'm in love with this distro !
[00:22] <greylica> I have been striping down lubuntu 12.04 and now my workstation is using 180MB to start
[00:22] <greylica> 15 seconds !
[00:23] <greylica> It's a Phenom X4 965 BE with a GTX 285 Nvidia card, using 8 GB of Ram - Blender starts instantly !
[00:23] <greylica> I don't even blink an eye !
[00:25] <greylica> I just throw away some unusefullthings for my WS, like xfce4 power management, chromium ( always asking for a google login -> changed to FF again  )
[00:25] <greylica> zeitgeist - out
[00:25] <greylica> abiword - out ( I use the libreoffice suite )
[00:26] <greylica> installed gimp, inkscape, audacity, ffmpeg, etc
[00:26] <greylica> lzma
[00:26] <greylica> wow !
[00:26] <greylica> Thank you developers !
[00:28] <greylica> Now I have to go
[08:43] <bytecounter> Hey @all
[08:43] <bytecounter> Short question regarding 5.1 soundcard
[08:44] <bytecounter> yesterday I installed the actual Lubuntu. All works fine, only my soundcard has 1 channel.
[08:45] <bytecounter> How could I activate the other channels in Alsa?
[08:47] <not_found> bytecounter, Hi... not sure never had to do this, in terminal try running alsamixer and see if there are any options etc...
[08:49] <bytecounter> Ah..ok, alsamixer shows me two cards...ATI (6 channels) and Nvidia (2 channels)
[09:07] <bytecounter> How could I use pulseAudio for managing sound in my Lubuntu?
[09:08] <kodez> how can I change gnome-mplayer not to switch itself off after 10 minutes?
[09:40] <bytecounter> After installing pulseAudio I have all channels
[11:27] <Hanbaal_> Howdy. are there any lubuntu12.04 specific reasons why an avertv Volar HD usb tv tuner card wouldnt work with tvtime or mythtv?
[17:04] <tWEEZER> anyone here?
[17:04] <TheMaster> !ask
[17:06] <leszek> hi
[17:07] <TheMaster> Good day leszek.
[17:08] <tWEEZER> Im having issues with the new version? anyone knows anything about that?
[17:12] <leszek> tWEEZER: what issues ?
[17:13] <tWEEZER> Leszek: It's said something like stop working like 10.000.000 times that popup came and yesterday it crashed... issues started after upgrading to 12.04
[17:14] <leszek> hmm.... does it say what app crashed ?
[17:15] <tWEEZER> Ubuntu 12.04 LTS?
[17:15] <leszek> hmm...
[17:15] <leszek> strange error
[17:15] <leszek> normally the errormessage should only popup if an application crashed
[17:16] <tWEEZER> I formated the disk to factory...and tried to install the new version...
[17:17] <tWEEZER> first the disks didn't came online...and when I manually confed them...and started installation again... It said "Cannot unmount /cdrom" and installation froze.
[17:20] <leszek> tWEEZER: did you use gparted for configuring your disk ?
[17:21] <tWEEZER> No I used some diskcheck util to factory format the disk.
[17:24] <leszek> if the installer was already running while partitioning with something else it is normal that it will not go on further because of conflicting permissions on devices
[17:25] <tWEEZER> and how do I fix that?
[17:27] <tWEEZER> cause the disk is factory reseted and checked... If I go and buy a new one i've get the same problem?
[17:28] <tWEEZER> the computer hw is ok...cause I just swaped my disk to the one with win7 to check that the computer haven't broke... and no issues...
[17:31] <tWEEZER> I'm doing everything like when I installed 11.10, but it just freezes...
[17:33] <leszek> tWEEZER: hmm...
[17:34] <tWEEZER> leszek: I've asked my friends about what to do and they said, re-install... but that's kinda hard right now! cause it crashes even in install... xD
[17:35] <leszek> tWEEZER: have you tested out other live systems do they work fine with your system ?
[17:36] <tWEEZER> Ubuntu worked fine when I test installed it...but it was about to needy in ram for this computer... xD
[17:39] <wxl> is this is lubuntu issue or an ubuntu issue, tWEEZER ?
[17:41] <tWEEZER> lubuntu... :P
[17:43] <leszek> tWEEZER: if install on lubuntu does not work for you and in Ubuntu it does. You could install Ubuntu and install lubuntu-desktop packages there
[17:43] <leszek> -s
[17:45] <tWEEZER> the thing is that I've got a crap connection so It would take a week to download Ubuntu, I've got Lubuntu 11.10 on a stick and 12.04 on a stick... 11.10, works but when upgraded it starts getting wacko!
[17:48] <leszek> tWEEZER: than stay with 11.10
[17:51] <tWEEZER> leszek: OK, I'd give it another try when the disk is checked and factory formated in a couple of hours again! And if the issue with 12.04 doesn't get better I'll install 11.10 again.
[18:15] <akls> I have one of my connections set to "shared to other computers" and it works, but it stops working every 2 minutes, to fix that I had to disable networking and enable it again. What's the problem?
[18:33] <smile-druk> bye :)
[18:34] <diego11> bye
[18:34] <smile-druk> good night :)
[18:35] <MassiveTR> i know that this is a beginners question but how do i assign hotkeys?
[23:03] <n1ckn4me09876543> I have .goutputstream-XXXXXXX  on my home folder, there seems to be 31 of it and its going up, is it safe to delete them? i've search online and found out its a mystery bug, like no one can figure out what's causing it
[23:15] <phillip69> I messed up the keyboard during installation and was wondering how i can change it to USA qwerty
[23:16] <phillip69> I new at this
[23:32] <cleaninstall> system prefrences, then Locale
[23:32] <cleaninstall> o wait u said keyboad , im slow today
[23:33] <cleaninstall> system settings hardware input devices
[23:39] <n1ckn4me09876543> hi
[23:39] <n1ckn4me09876543> is it safe to delete  .goutputstream   in my homefolder?   they keep on growing i have 31 now, when i open there's nothing in it
[23:45] <Minze> why does lubuntu try to update the firefox-locales if firefox isnt installed at all?
[23:56] <cleaninstall> cause language-pack-en-base recomends firefox-locale-en, probably why its being pulled in, why a level or more above that, idk, uninstall them
[23:57] <cleaninstall> or purge


[17:06] <Pendulum> A general question to everyone, I'm putting together the things to do usability testing. Do we have a preference in how I split impairments into groups?
[17:07] <Pendulum> TheMuso AlanBell joanie ^^
[17:09] <AlanBell> Pendulum: by persona?
[17:10] <joanie> persona sounds logical to me
[17:11] <Pendulum> That could work. In that case I would probably change deaf-partially sighted to just deaf
[17:11] <joanie> btw AlanBell earlier I saw you mention that Orca spoke a password. So lemme tell you how that works:
[17:11] <joanie> there is an accessible ROLE_PASSWORD_TEXT
[17:12] <joanie> if that accessible role is exposed properly, Orca should not speak the password
[17:12] <joanie> depending on your settings it might say "star star star" to confirm character entry
[17:12] <AlanBell> ok, I have a few bugs for lightdm to raise I think
[17:12] <joanie> so without looking at it, my guess is taht lightdm has a widget claiming to be ROLE_ENTRY or ROLE_TEXT or ROLE_SOMETHING_ELSE_NOT_PASSWORD_TEXT
[17:13]  * joanie looks for the doc
[17:13] <joanie> http://developer.gnome.org/atk/stable/AtkObject.html#AtkRole
[17:13] <AlanBell> wow
[17:13] <joanie> AlanBell: include that doc in your bug report
[17:13] <joanie> to lightdm
[17:14] <AlanBell> will do
[17:14] <joanie> and request that all widgets in which the text is masked
[17:14] <joanie> has ROLE_PASSWORD_TEXT
[17:14] <joanie> thanks!
[17:14] <AlanBell> thanks joanie
[17:15] <joanie> btw, what toolkit does lightdm use? (save me the google)
[17:16] <joanie> because ideally, the bug should be fixed at the toolkit level
[17:16] <joanie> and applications using the toolkit should be able to just set some toolkit-specific, non-a11y property
[17:16] <joanie> like "mask the characters with bullets 'cause it's a password" property
[17:17] <joanie> and the toolkit itself would ensure that every widget with that not a11y-specific property set, gets exposed as ATK_ROLE_PASSWORD_TEXT
[17:17] <joanie> AlanBell: ^
[17:20] <AlanBell> could be gtk or qt or something else I think
[17:20] <joanie> :)
[17:20] <joanie> Gtk+ should already do that correctly
[17:21] <joanie> fregl: see above and tell me about Qt please
[17:23] <AlanBell> the unity-greeter package is the lightdm engine that we are using, and that depends on libgtk-3-0 so they are probably abusing the widget in a horrible way
[17:23] <joanie> ok
[17:24] <joanie> unless something broke in Gtk+ 3, maybe it is indeed an app rather than a toolkit bug
[17:25] <AlanBell> Bug #944159
[17:25] <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 944159 in unity-greeter "orca reads the password out loud" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/944159
[17:25]  * joanie looks
[17:28] <AlanBell> Bug #944161
[17:28] <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 944161 in unity-greeter "orca does not read user names" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/944161
[17:32] <joanie> on the second, I commented, but I will need to set up an environment in which to test that myself
[17:36] <AlanBell> joanie: one of my side projects is setting up a desktop that can be controlled completely over IRC, so it would be a bot in a channel that goes orca > speech dispatcher > IRC  and you would be able to talk back to it to send keys to the desktop
[17:37] <joanie> interesting
[17:37] <AlanBell> good for showing people what the desktop actually speaks, and possibly for running test scripts against it
[17:38] <joanie> once I get a laptop set up, I see what all needs to be done to simplify your providing the debug output I'd need from Orca
[17:38] <joanie> once you have a set user, it's easy
[18:14] <AlanBell> skaet: bug 878184 might be one you would be interested in tracking
[18:14] <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 878184 in unity-greeter "Onscreen Keyboard cannot be used to input password in unity-greeter" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/878184
[18:17] <Pendulum> joanie: I'm fairly certain it uses GTK
[18:17] <Pendulum> oops, was scrolled up and din't notice
[18:17] <Pendulum> yes
[18:18] <Pendulum> especially because I was going to test this weekend
[18:20] <skaet> AlanBell,  yes indeed.  thanks!
[18:43] <AlanBell> https://bugs.launchpad.net/dbusmenu/+bug/878708 has a branch on it to test
[18:43] <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 878708 in dbusmenu "indicator menu items reported as tickboxes by orca" [High,In progress]
[18:44] <AlanBell> funnily enough that is about widget roles too
[18:51] <joanie> not entirely surprising, really.
[18:51] <joanie> We present stuff based on what the stuff is
[18:51] <joanie> and sadly we don't yet have a good means to identify real purpose
[18:51] <joanie> but we do have widget roles
[19:30] <AlanBell> looks like the global menu is an ugly hack altogether, a bunch of checkboxes arranged in a menulike structure
[19:31] <joanie> I'm just now installing, but which creature is the global menu?
[19:36] <AlanBell> it is a bit mac like. The menus of applications have been ripped out of the application windows and stuffed into the top panel
[19:39] <joanie> right
[19:39] <joanie> so when you say global menu, is it the first menu in the top panel?
[19:40] <joanie> install is almost done
[19:46] <joanie> is the crash report dialog not keyboard accessible?
[19:46] <joanie> my touchpad is not working at all (though it is detected)
[19:46] <joanie> and then gnome-control-center died
[19:46] <joanie> and I cannot click on this thing
[19:46] <joanie> and I cannot alt+tab to it
[19:48] <joanie> aha, crashed again and got focus this time. ;)
[19:48] <joanie> damn lost focus. wtf
[19:51] <joanie> on a positive note, I can reproduce it
[20:40] <AlanBell> joanie: things seem to be a bit more crashy than they were a few weeks ago :(
[20:42] <joanie> btw bug 934053 is going to impact keyboard users
[20:42] <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 934053 in gnome-control-center "gnome-control-center crashed with SIGSEGV in cc_shell_category_view_get_item_view()" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/934053
[20:42] <joanie> and btw2, not present in Fedora rawhide
[20:43] <joanie> so I don't know if this is an upstream or downstream thing
[20:44] <AlanBell> thats a bit rubbish isn't it
[20:44] <joanie> ?
[20:44] <joanie> I don't mean it in a bad way
[20:45] <AlanBell> trying to move between any of the sections in gnome control centre with cursor up or down crashes it
[20:46] <joanie> aha
[20:47] <joanie> at some point I can set up yet another environment and build the relevant items from master in ubuntu
[20:47] <joanie> but right now my goal is to have an environment with shipping/official ubuntu precise + orca from master
[20:48] <joanie> so I don't want to "taint" this shiny new install with non-ubuntu shipped stuff that is not orca
[20:49] <joanie> anyhoo, I won't change the priority of bugs, but I think this bug is bigger than "medium"
[20:49]  * joanie goes back to getting build dependencies
[20:57]  * AlanBell submits a test case for using unity with Orca
[20:59] <TheMuso> AlanBell: The check roles for all menu items in dbusmenu is because dbusmenu uses GtkCheckMenuItem. There is a work-around that can be done in dbusmenu to only set the atk role to ATK_ROLE_CHECK_MENU_ITEM if the menu item is set up as a check menu item, but its just a matter of me getting around to doing it.
[20:59] <TheMuso> Its on my list, but I am currently in the middle of bisecting GTK to try and find a commit that broke GtkTreeViewColumn code causing ubiquity's advanced partitioner to die whenever accessibility is loaded, i.e atk-bridge.
[20:59] <joanie> wait ... so.....
[21:00] <joanie> dbusmenu uses GtkCheckMenuItem for things which are not functionally CheckMenuItem's?
[21:00] <TheMuso> joanie: Yes, because the design didn't think of a11y at first, so it was whatever works visually.
[21:00]  * joanie nods
[21:00] <AlanBell> indeed, because if they look the same thats good enough
[21:00] <TheMuso> And its a bit of a pain to change that now...
[21:01] <TheMuso> So easier to aply the work-around I mentioned.
[21:01] <joanie> we need to write a best practices guide (seriously and it's on my list)
[21:01] <joanie> oh sure re the work-around
[21:01] <joanie> but this is a perfect example: EITHER the developer doesn't do that OR here's how you work around it (i.e. change the role in the app-level)
[21:02] <TheMuso> Yeah, we shouldn't really be dealing with roles, unless we are wrapping a toolkit ourselves.
[21:02] <TheMuso> Speaking of which...
[21:03] <TheMuso> I am starting to regret not pushing the DX team harder to wrap Nux with atk rather than unity itself, and I am surprised Alejandro didn't push harder as well...
[21:03] <joanie> ya know, there's a reason why he didn't
[21:03] <joanie> but I don't recall what it is
[21:03] <joanie> but he gave it to me
[21:03] <joanie> so when he's back... ask him
[21:03] <joanie> (he's on holiday until monday)
[21:03] <TheMuso> I say this because we have the hud, which is not accessible. Why, because its a new window in unity that needs to be wrapped in atk. Its using the same widgets as the unity dash, but because its a different object in unity's code, it has no unity atk equivalent.
[21:04] <TheMuso> joanie: Fair enough, but I feel its causing us more grief than its worth.
[21:04] <AlanBell> I poked gord about that within seconds of it being announced
[21:04] <joanie> yeah, I don't understand it, but like I said, I've asked and he did have a reason
[21:04] <AlanBell> trouble is the first we know about stuff like that is seconds after it is announced
[21:04] <joanie> and it seemed good at the time, I just forget what it is
[21:04]  * joanie nods
[21:04] <TheMuso> So for that reason I am pushing Unity 2D as the most accessible of unity environments atm, we just need to get quicklists working.
[21:04] <TheMuso> joanie: Fair enough./
[21:05] <joanie> and what exactly is "the hud"?
[21:05] <TheMuso> And unfortunately my QML knowledge is next to none.
[21:05] <joanie> you have more than I do then :)
[21:06] <TheMuso> The Hud is basically a menu search system. You can search through all your menu items to find what you are looking for, this includes indicators as well.
[21:10] <joanie> how do you invoke it
[21:11] <joanie> as an aside, this is awesome: there is a command 'huh' from a package 'orville-write'
[21:11] <joanie> I wish I were clever with package names like that
[21:11] <TheMuso> Press the alt key I think.
[21:11] <maco> HUD = Heads Up Display, like all the bits around the edges in video games giving you stats about the character you're about to shoot
[21:11] <joanie> ah
[21:12] <AlanBell> maco: now it makes sense to me! I had no idea it was a game thing
[21:12]  * joanie feels smarter now
[21:12] <maco> i think there are real ones in the military too
[21:12] <AlanBell> well apart from flight sim games
[21:13] <maco> but that could just be movies ;)
[21:13] <AlanBell> they are real, it is an upwards facing display with an angled glass as a partial mirror or the glass of the cockpit window
[21:14] <AlanBell> we have a customer that makes the displays for them
[21:16] <maco> fancy
[21:24] <joanie> silly question: are items supposed to disappear from the search when you type their full name?
[21:24] <joanie> sometimes I type too fast and then poof! it's gone
[21:24] <TheMuso> Not sure.
[21:24] <TheMuso> I avoid the hud, for obvious reasons.
[21:25] <joanie> this is alt+f2
[21:25] <joanie> old habit of mine
[21:25] <TheMuso> Oh ok.
[21:25] <TheMuso> Do you mean full name as in the full command? Or the actual long name of the app?
[21:25] <joanie> and something I cannot explain but is true is that my brain to finger connection is much faster than my brain-to-eye connection
[21:26] <joanie> actual long name
[21:26] <joanie> like 'gnome-terminal'
[21:26] <joanie> mind you, whatever gnome-terminal.wrapper is still is there, but with the cog icon
[21:26] <TheMuso> Right.
[21:26] <joanie> so it's easy enough to say "just don't type so much" :)
[21:26] <joanie> but I find it odd that it disappears as soon as I type its name
[21:27] <TheMuso> eems to work ok here.
[21:27] <TheMuso> seems
[21:27] <joanie> even if you type the full name?
[21:27] <TheMuso> As in, I type movie player, and movie player shows and stays visible.
[21:27]  * joanie tries
[21:27] <joanie> i don't have that app I guess
[21:27]  * joanie tries another name
[21:28] <joanie> yeah, if I type rhythbox, it goes away with the x
[21:28] <maco> i think gnome-terminal is the full command
[21:28] <joanie> but 'rhythmbox-client' stays visible
[21:28] <joanie> yeah, it is
[21:28] <maco> whereas that thing is searching the name, so it'd want gnome terminal, with a space?
[21:28] <maco> oh hrmph @ rhythmbox
[21:29] <joanie> oh well
[21:29] <joanie> I think maybe it's looking one character beyond the search string
[21:29] <joanie> once the stuff I need is in my dash I will be fine
[21:30] <TheMuso> Your launcher is even better.
[21:30] <joanie> is that what it's called
[21:31] <TheMuso> Unless you find it quicker to just search...
[21:31] <joanie> the thing on the left
[21:31] <TheMuso> Which I do actually.
[21:31] <TheMuso> Right, thats the launcher.
[21:31] <joanie> ah
[21:31] <joanie> in gnome-shell
[21:31] <joanie> the launcher like thing on the left in overview is called the dash
[21:33] <TheMuso> Right.
[21:37] <AlanBell> joanie: yes, the HUD does currently penalise people who can type
[21:37] <AlanBell> it is getting better, but still if you type a correct word and press space it takes the right answer away from you!
[21:52] <TheMuso> AlanBell: Seems Ted beat me to it, he has a proposed fix for the checkmenu item role issue.
[21:53] <AlanBell> TheMuso: yes, installing it now
[21:54] <TheMuso> Cool.
[21:55] <TheMuso> AlanBell: Note that you may not hear Orca speak any menu items, with the exception of network name menu items in network-manager, due to a change I made to dbusmenu to respect atk docs, and finding out that gtk does not yet respect sed docs. :)
[21:56] <TheMuso> I have a proposed fix in th emerge queue for it.
[21:56] <TheMuso> Which involves violating atk docs, at least for now till GTK is fixed.
[22:10] <AlanBell> joanie: why does orca have a splashscreen?
[22:27] <TheMuso> AlanBell: TO work around focus issues.
[22:27] <AlanBell> hmm
[22:28] <AlanBell> when lightdm starts orca says hello, I start typing my password and the first few letters go to the splashscreen before I can type in the password field
[22:28] <AlanBell> and it occurred to me that the splashscreen is an odd thing for a screenreader to have
[22:34] <TheMuso> Urm, the splash screen should not be showing in unity-greeter.
[22:38] <AlanBell> ok, is that a unity-greeter bug then?
[22:38] <joanie> TheMuso: we had to change the desktop autostart file
[22:39] <joanie> for the new cli flag parser
[22:39] <joanie> if you are keeping your old autostart file
[22:39] <joanie> you might see the splash screen
[22:40] <joanie> TheMuso: http://git.gnome.org/browse/orca/commit/?id=1d162c35b1dff4c9b03cbf8a1707d15949ae56dd
[22:47] <TheMuso> joanie: Yeah I am aware of that, and updated my patch accordingly, but I think the unity-greeter code needs tweaking. I'll take care of that.
[22:47] <TheMuso> AlanBell: I'll take care of it.
[22:48] <TheMuso> Sometimes these things are solved more quickly just by working on the code yourself, and I know the code well enough to know exactly what needs changing, and where.
[22:51] <AlanBell> great, thanks TheMuso
[22:54] <TheMuso> lp:~themuso/unity-greeter/fix-orca-cmdline-syntax - Merge proposed.
[22:59] <TheMuso> Damn I love vala!
[23:02]  * AlanBell shudders
[23:02] <AlanBell> all those crazy little c files that turn up
[23:02] <TheMuso> Yeah but writing vala is not as bad as having to write gobject C at times.
[23:03] <AlanBell> yeah, just wish it was a real compiler for vala rather than going via c
[23:03] <AlanBell> took me ages to work out that I shouldn't edit the c files to fix the error messages
[23:06] <TheMuso> heh right.
[23:06] <TheMuso> Well if you work in the vcs directly, like unity-greeter, you will note the .c files are not kept around there.