[03:04] <seb128> do we have somebody with knowledge in this area ? :)
[03:05] <Kamion> keymaps might have to be fixed in the installer / console-data
[03:05] <seb128> fabbione: just have a quick look and let me know if you have some idea, thanks
[03:05] <fabbione> seb128: i am reading it now
[03:05] <seb128> ok
[03:06] <seb128> Kamion: have you seen the .be guys getting .de keymap bugs ?
[03:06] <Loduriel> bye everyone
[03:06] <Kamion> vaguely, I've been totally overwhelmed with information today
[03:06] <fabbione> seb128: i would ask him if the problem is persisten all over the applications (that would make it more a X problem)
[03:06] <fabbione> seb128: otherwise i have no clue
[03:06] <seb128> fabbione: ok, thanks
[03:06] <Kamion> seb128: if it's reproducible in a console, feel free to assign it to me
[03:07] <seb128> ok
[03:08] <srbaker> does ubuntu use debian-installer?
[03:08] <Keybuk> yes
[03:08] <Kamion> srbaker: yes, somewhat modified
[03:10] <MacPlusG3> is there a place to report bugs?
[03:10] <chroot> MacPlusG3: topic
[03:17] <koke> MacPlusG3, http://bugzilla.ubuntulinux.com/ IIRC
[03:17] <srbaker> hrm.  wonder what it says for debian's release cycle when a new company can start up and issue a release faster than we can. :P
[03:17] <koke> .org
[03:17] <MacPlusG3> koke: got it
[03:17] <thom> (it's in the topic) :-)
[03:17] <koke> ouch :P
[03:17] <thom> srbaker: benefit of people working on ubuntu full time
[03:18] <thom> and having to follow the release plan ;-)
[03:18] <srbaker> thom, yeah, i know.
[03:18] <Kamion> Ubuntu's supported set of packages is a lot smaller, too, which makes a huge difference
[03:20] <srbaker> that's a good thing.  it's also a bad thing, too, tho
[03:20] <Kamion> EPARSE :)
[03:20] <srbaker> fedora has a smaller package list, but it's missing everything i need.  It's set to launch "gthumg --import-photos", but it doesn't seam to launch that on plugin of camera. HAL problem? "gthumb --import-photos" works on the command line.
[03:25] <mjg59> andred: What does device manager identify your camera as?
[03:25] <srbaker> so ubuntu just takes debian and puts a release schedule behind it.  that's what debian's needed all along
[03:26] <mjg59> srbaker: And ships some non-free stuff
[03:26] <srbaker> oh.
[03:26] <srbaker> what non-free stuff?
[03:26] <mjg59> Though that's limited to drivers
[03:26] <srbaker> oh.  i currently use the nvidia binary driver.
[03:26] <mjg59> There's stuff in restricted that's not DFSG free
[03:26] <thom> restricted has the nvidia drivers and some other stuff
[03:26] <srbaker> okay.
[03:26] <rburton> andred: hal needs to be told what devices are cameras.  i think it knows about the ixus by default, and the eos-300d was added today iirc
[03:26] <andred> mjg59, info.product is "IXUS 400 Camera", which seams right.
[03:26] <Kamion> srbaker: that's rather a simplification, but if you like :)
[03:27] <thom> andred: let me try mine
[03:27] <rburton> andred: check info.capabilities (iirc)
[03:27] <srbaker> what is it that canonical will do for revenue generation, though?  consulting?  support?
[03:27] <rburton> srbaker: drug running
[03:27] <mjg59> andred: That's a plain-text string that's read from the camera
[03:27] <srbaker> i'm a little concerned about canonical being around next year.  i don't have to have the same worries about larger companies like RedHat
[03:27] <srbaker> and community stuff like debian
[03:27] <Keybuk> srbaker: would it help to know we have roughly the same amount of money in the bank as RedHat?
[03:27] <srbaker> rburton, oh, well, let me know if i can be of help with that.  my cousins are apparently quite high in the drug food chain in Canada.
[03:28] <lifeless> Keybuk: more as I understand it :)
[03:28] <dieman> hey srbaker.
[03:28] <srbaker> Keybuk, uh, i don't believe that.  but it's nice to hear
[03:28] <andred> rburton, On the Device tab I have a label "Capabilities" and that says "Unknown".
[03:28] <dieman> 349 requests currently being processed, 1 idle workers
[03:28] <dieman> ftp.cs.umn.edu is *full*
[03:28] <mjg59> andred: Sounds like it's a hal issue, then
[03:28] <lamont> dieman: time to up the limit, eh? :-)
[03:29] <dieman> lamont: yeah, im not puttin more than 350 apache processes to the task here
[03:29] <lamont> hehe
[03:29] <dieman> theres only so much bandwidth to pass aroun
[03:29] <dieman> around
[03:29] <andred> mjg59, Okay. Oddly enough, on that tab I have first "Device: IXUS 400 Camera" and them further down "Device Unknown" (notice no colon on second label).
[03:29] <lamont> Kamion: the other possibility is that cron.daily is now running, um, daily.
[03:30] <lamont> Kamion: but that would be, well, wrong, you know.
[03:30] <rburton> andred: run a locale for .fdi files, you'll need to fiddle with that. then report the changes
[03:30] <mjg59> andred: Yeah, Device: is the vendor name for it and Device (no colon) is hal stuff
[03:31] <mjg59> rburton: s/locale/locate/ ?
[03:31] <lamont> dieman: about 4 more hours and I'll have an ISO... Grumble
[03:32] <Kinnison> lamont: did you not bittorrent it yesterday then?
[03:32] <andred> rburton, Ok, I'll try that.
[03:32] <lamont> Kinnison: started to, but life was sucky
[03:32] <Kinnison> lamont: I know that feeling
[03:33] <lamont> the rsync at home continued chugging along - I unthrottled it last night and burned up 3-days worth of quota, then burned up another 60MB (.6 days) this morning.
[03:33] <Keybuk> srbaker: Canonical and Ubuntu are separate as well, though Canonical employ staff to work full-time on Ubuntu there's nothing requiring Ubuntu is only worked on by Canonical employees
[03:33] <Kinnison> lamont: quota?!
[03:33] <lamont> Kinnison: 3.2GB/mo, although I can have all I want at <56kbps.
[03:33] <Kinnison> lamont: yeesh
[03:34] <mako> free: are you debian-custom free?
[03:34] <mako> (morning everyone)
[03:34] <lamont> so the mirror machine is throttled to 30kbps, and the rest of the activity tends to add about 10kbps to each 5-min sample
[03:34] <lamont> morning mako
[03:34] <StingRay> Hi guys. Can anyone help a new Ubuntu user with a small issue?
[03:34] <jdub> StingRay: that's what we're here for :)
[03:34] <andred> rburton: So you're saying I should try to adapt canon-digital-ixus-v.fdi to IXUS 400 according to what I find in Device Manager?
[03:34] <lamont> mako: you still left coast?  or somewhere that it's a decent hour of the morning?
[03:35] <StingRay> Cool! When I installed Ubuntu, I was never asked to provide a root password. How do I change it?
[03:35] <mako> lamont: i'm 8 days into being a newyorker
[03:35] <Keybuk> StingRay: the default account has sudo access, with the root password disabled
[03:35] <Keybuk> StingRay: sudo passwd, if you specifically want a root password
[03:35] <tuo2> hey all
[03:35] <lamont> Kinnison: it's a co-op, and given that I'm sharing a single 802.11 link with a bunch of others, I have to agree with that billing model.
[03:35] <StingRay> Thanks, I'll give it a try
[03:35] <Kinnison> lamont: aah
[03:35] <lamont> Keybuk: not sudo passwd root?
[03:36] <lamont> Kinnison: 18 miles from my house to the hilltop, and then another 6? to the home of the dual-T1's.
[03:36] <Keybuk> lamont: the root is implied by being root :p
[03:36] <daniels> u know what... windows really rocks
[03:36] <daniels> bill gates is the man
[03:37] <Kinnison> lamont: meep. That's worse than I used to have. At least I was only 9 miles from the leased lines
[03:37] <lamont> somewhere I thought it grabbed the original user...
[03:37] <lamont> Kinnison: Fiber terminates 3.25 miles from my house (that's under 18000 feet, fwiw...)
[03:37] <Kinnison> daniels: cheap imitation
[03:38] <ggi> Well, I'm about to install Warty on a laptop. Have there been any brown-paper-bag bugs pertaining to laptop explosion found since yesterday?
[03:38] <lamont> so I should be able to get DSL soon...
[03:38] <Keybuk> ggi: what laptop?
[03:39] <ggi> Keybuk: A Fujitsu-Siemens Amilo D 1840. Fairly generic, gets on well with Debian.
[03:39] <StingRay> Keybuk: Am I missing something here. It doesn't work with sudo passwd. I'm logged in as the user I created during installation.
[03:39] <daniels> im sorry
[03:39] <daniels> this is an imposter
[03:39] <lamont> StingRay: try 'sudo passwd root'
[03:39] <dieman> lamont: qworst?
[03:39] <Keybuk> ggi: should be fine -- we did a lot of laptop testing
[03:39] <tuo2> do we have a nice upgrade from a debian unstable build to warty? Or is it a rebuild jobbie?
[03:39] <lamont> dieman: yeppers.
[03:39] <StingRay> Lamont: I did, no luck
[03:39] <dieman> lamont: if it is, you could look up the schedule for RT deployments
[03:40] <andred> rburton, Ok, I've now changed usb.product_id according to Device Manager for IXUS 400. Do I have to name the .fdi file to something special for it to work?
[03:40] <Keybuk> StingRay: what did it do/not do?
[03:40] <lamont> they did a walkthrough of a neighborhood 4 miles from here, sold my buddy that there DSL thang...
[03:40] <dieman> lamont: i'll find it wheni get into work
[03:40] <lamont> dieman: that'd be cool
[03:40] <dieman> lamont: ive got qwest service
[03:40] <lamont> and yes, the blocker is "no remote terminal"
[03:40] <dieman> 1.5/1 is niiice
[03:40] <StingRay> It asked for a password, the root one i guess, but I don't have it.
[03:40] <ggi> Keybuk: I'll inform you if bad things happen.
[03:40] <Keybuk> StingRay: no, it's asking for *your* password :)
[03:40] <lamont> StingRay: sudo asks for _your_ password
[03:40] <dieman> lamont: i think they have a list of terminals they plan on doing in the next year or so, afair
[03:40] <HrdwrBoB> StingRay: read the screen :)
[03:41] <lamont> dieman: any clue how much work/money/whatever it is to deploy said RT?
[03:41] <StingRay> Nevermind, I got it now. How stupid of me :)
[03:41] <andred> rburton, YAy, with that change it not Just Works!:-)
[03:41] <StingRay> It's all good now!
[03:42] <lamont> andred: s/not/now/???
[03:42] <andred> Yeah:-)
[03:42] <lamont> ok.
[03:42] <lamont> scanned wierd the other way... :)
[03:42] <andred> Should I report the change as a bug, or can someone take it right now?
[03:42] <dieman> lamont: no idea
[03:43] <StingRay> Just one more quick question. Does apt-get work in ubuntu the same way it works in debian?
[03:43] <lamont> StingRay: it's the same code....
[03:43] <StingRay> That explains it. Thanks.
[03:45] <thom> andred: please report it
[03:46] <MacPlusG3> anyone else getting "Error 15: File not found" from GRUB?
[03:46] <Qerub> rburton: doesn't gvm handle camera recognition by looking for a dcim dir?
[03:46] <dieman> lamont: http://www.qwest.com/disclosures/netdisclosure459/ <-- enjoy
[03:47] <dieman> lamont: i dont see the future list there tho
[03:47] <dieman> lamont: i'll do some more digging
[03:48] <lamont> dieman: they lie.  Wellington has one.
[03:48] <dieman> lamont: did you look at the RT list?
[03:48] <dieman> or the co-based list?
[03:48] <lamont> yeah
[03:48] <lamont> oh
[03:48] <dieman> plus, sure, i bet its out of date ;)
[03:49] <lamont> Excel Document, 844k, posted 9/15/04
[03:49] <lamont> wow
[03:50] <dieman> yeah
[03:50] <dieman> your looking in the exel doc right?
[03:50] <dieman> the other problem is that your phone line probally has load coils
[03:50] <dieman> so they would need to remove those too
[03:51] <lamont> 	Colorado	08-Jul-04	FTCLCOMA	9701 N COUNTY RD 15	FTCLCOLM	740431	X 9701 N COUNTY RD 15
[03:51] <lamont> hrm...
[03:51] <dieman> tat one close?
[03:52] <lamont> 3 miles
[03:52] <cc> jdub: yak here then
[03:52] <lamont> 3.25, actually.  It's on the fire station lot.
[03:52] <dieman> heh
[03:52] <jdub> cc: dude, you should totally be looking at ubuntu now :)
[03:52] <lamont> which I happen to know is where system 3, repeater 7 lives.
[03:53] <lamont> and I'm system 3, repeater 10
[03:53] <Kamion> MacPlusG3: you should have got a warning about using XFS during installation ...
[03:53] <cc> jdub: just curious to know how the prodding of X autodetection happens on PPC. is it /proc/device-tree bits?
[03:53] <dieman> You have: 3.25 miles
[03:53] <dieman> You want: feet
[03:53] <dieman>         * 17160
[03:53] <lamont> kinda OT, though. :-)
[03:53] <cc> jdub: yeah, i definitely should install it. but i'm proabbly after sources for the video autodetection tools :)
[03:53] <jdub> cc: fabio and daniels can give you better answers
[03:53] <Kamion> cc: that's xresprobe, in the archive
[03:53] <dieman> lamont: heh, you could hook up wireless there
[03:53] <cc> jdub: thanks.
[03:53] <fabbione> cc:i tuses a combinantion of ddcprobe and X -probeonly
[03:53] <jdub> cc: i'll convert you when i come down :)
[03:53] <fabbione> ^ it uses
[03:54] <fabbione> cc: plus a lot of black magic :-)
[03:54] <lamont> dieman: no, he's down in a hole.  And (believe it or not) there are trees in the way to the firestation
[03:54] <cc> fabbione: and it detects things sanely? our ddcprobe doesn't do OFvb stuff correctly
[03:54] <fabbione> cc: "our" ?
[03:54] <fabbione> oh i see
[03:54] <cc> fabbione: and lshw for instance, or lspci detects hardware with totally wrong vram. trying to poke #address-cells to see if thats right or not, but seemingly no
[03:55] <cc> fabbione: fedora ppc (sorry)
[03:55] <cc> Kamion: xresprobe, i'll take a look at that, thanks
[03:55] <fabbione> cc: Ovfb is disable by default
[03:55] <lamont> dieman: what's the distance limit?  18000,or was it still12000?
[03:55] <tuo2> jdub: quick question... have you done the warty display at Debsig yet?
[03:55] <fabbione> cc: we disable OFvb and VESA
[03:55] <jdub> tuo2: hrm?
[03:55] <cc> jdub: yes, that you prolly will :P but i have to err... fix this
[03:56] <jdub> tuo2: the presentation?
[03:56] <fabbione> cc: but we probe the others.. it's not always sane.. it does its best...
[03:56] <tuo2> jdub: yup
[03:56] <jdub> tuo2: it was last night, for the release party :)
[03:56] <fabbione> cc: but usually in the worst case it will ask the user what to do
[03:56] <tuo2> jdub: Dammit!
[03:56] <jdub> tuo2: i posted an url to the slides to -users
[03:56] <tuo2> :)
[03:56] <jdub> tuo2: but but but -> slug this month :)
[03:56] <tuo2> aaah? really? nice.
[03:56] <cc> fabbione: ah. ok. so ddcprobe and X -probeonly actually tend to make sane decisions. ddcprobe mostly gives me crack answers on the ppc hardware i have here though
[03:56] <cc> fabbione: will ping you when i get to reading the sources for the debian/ubuntu stuff. thanks!
[03:57] <tuo2> jdub: Jordan. Friend of dopey.
[03:57] <jdub> ahar
[03:57] <jdub> come along!
[03:57] <fabbione> cc: well it's a lot of shell scripting
[03:57] <tuo2> jdub: for sure. I've been looking for a new project to sink my teeth into.. so if you are taking help, I'll take a look around and see what I can give back :)
[03:57] <fabbione> cc: it has been working fine in all our tests.. too bad that the xresprobe is broken in the preview cd
[03:57] <fabbione> cc: but you can get it from the archive directly
[03:58] <jdub> tuo2: rock!
[03:58] <cc> fabbione: hacks then. heh. but i believe jdub when he says its all very sweet.
[03:58] <fabbione> cc: hehhe well we did our best
[03:58] <jdub> cc: we refer to it as 'totally rad'
[03:58] <tuo2> jdub: you got a upgrader from sarge? or do I have to blow this box away? (Thinkpad T30
[03:58] <laotse> fabbione: hey man :)
[03:58] <jdub> tuo2: easier to blow away atm
[03:58] <tuo2> ahar.
[03:58] <tuo2> bugger.
[03:58] <fabbione> cc: with the hardware we had.. clearly unknown hardware might give different results
[03:58] <cc> you guys have a liveCD about?
[03:58] <fabbione> hey laotse !
[03:58] <lamont> tuo2: warty froze end of june, so sarge is (in some cases) newer
[03:59] <fabbione> cc: liveCd doesn't use the same probe technique
[03:59] <cc> fabbione: you guys definitely have more hardware than we have... we work against the crowd to get ppc working
[03:59] <tuo2> lamont: ah....makes sense.
[03:59] <cc> fabbione: ah, okay. so i'm gonna install it soon then
[03:59] <fabbione> laotse: what
[03:59] <fabbione> laotse: whats
[03:59] <fabbione> ARGH
[03:59] <laotse> haha
[03:59] <fabbione> laotse: what's up man?
[03:59] <tuo2> jdub: when's slug?
[03:59] <laotse> fabbione: not much. getting ready to call into my team meeting. ugh.
[03:59] <fabbione> laotse: boring stuff :-)
[03:59] <jdub> tuo2: last friday of the month, think that's the 25th
[03:59] <laotse> fabbione: seriously
[03:59] <jdub> 24th
[04:00] <fabbione> laotse: well you can abuse your bw to download ubuntu during the meeting
[04:00] <fabbione> laotse: at least it won
[04:00] <fabbione> 't be wasted
[04:00] <laotse> fabbione: haha. will do.
[04:00] <tuo2> jdub: nice. is it still at JSB? (Was it ever?... I've fairly much only ever made it to debsig....)
[04:00] <cc> fabbione: yeah, our ddcprobe is on crack. atirage128 with 512mb of ram on an iMac (for example). my laptops give weird ones too.
[04:00] <fabbione> ok it's time i stop typing for today
[04:00] <jdub> tuo2: nah, slug is at UTS
[04:00] <fabbione> laotse: i know :-)
[04:00] <tuo2> jdub: and where is the beer?
[04:00] <tuo2> :)
[04:00] <jdub> tuo2: #slug on thsi netwrok btw
[04:00] <tuo2> hmm
[04:00] <jdub> tuo2: we have indian afterward, usually, with beer ;)
[04:01] <fabbione> cc: eheh well test it and let us know. any feedback is good
[04:01] <fabbione> i am off for a while
[04:01] <fabbione> my fingers are hurting :-)
[04:03] <lamont> poor phone rep for qwest...  pointed questions are such a mixed bag...
[04:04] <Kamion> 15:01 < steph> ubuntu rot13s to hohagh
[04:05] <andred> Where can one find into on 'restricted', 'universe' and that stuff?
[04:05] <lamont> andred: it's in the faq.
[04:06] <bug1> what are the goals of ubuntu, is it a community driven distro or a for profit (ala redhat, suse) distro ?
[04:07] <jdub> bug1: largely community driven, but sponsored (and initiated) by a for-profit company
[04:07] <bug1> jdub, fair enough
[04:07] <lamont> dieman: 1_6_000.  dammit
[04:08] <lamont> time to canvas the neighborhood and have people call to ask.
[04:08] <andred> lamont, Hmm, where? In the FAQ there is one mentioning of 'restricted' and 'universe', but that's the Sarge->Ubunte question.
[04:09] <lamont> andred: hrmpf.
[04:10] <andred> Basically I just want to know if there's a place for additional software compiled for Ubuntu. I'm specifically interested in Gossip.
[04:10] <lamont> main: what we support, restricted: binary driver blobs and the like, we can't really support them, universe: the rest.
[04:10] <HrdwrBoB> andred: just grab the debian package from universe :)
[04:11] <andred> HrdwrBoB, Ok. I thought mixing Debian packages and Ubuntu packages was considered possibly harmful..
[04:11] <bug1> does ubuntu intend to follow debian in the foreseable future, or does it want to be indenpendent ?
[04:11] <lamont> universe should be the rest of debian/main, compiled for ubuntu, and is the recommended place to grab bits.  If something you want isn't built in universe, it probably is either dep-waited or failed
[04:11] <lamont> bug1: goal is to track sid, basically
[04:11] <Kamion> bug1: well, we're independent, but we're trying to minimize unnecessary divergence
[04:12] <bug1> so the same packaging tools etc
[04:12] <lamont> HrdwrBoB/andred: if you're grabbing it from universe, then you're not grabbing the debian package.
[04:12] <Sleep_bob> ah ok
[04:12] <djempak> how much RAM would one recommend for running GNOME in Ubuntu?
[04:12] <Sleep_bob> night
[04:12] <andred> lamont, Ok, cool.
[04:12] <Keybuk> djempak: 256MB is a sensible "recommended" for GNOME
[04:13] <djempak> ah
[04:13] <lamont> the kids computer is running with 128
[04:13] <Keybuk> it runs ok in 128MB ... but don't expect to be able to run evo, openoffice and mozilla together without swapping
[04:13] <Keybuk> the desktop itself is fine though
[04:13] <srbaker> evo needs like 100M
[04:13] <djempak> 2.0 looks nice though
[04:14] <Keybuk> srbaker: most of that is shared footprint, though evo can grow somewhat once you read in all your mail folders :-(
[04:14] <lamont> 128MB was a major upgrade for the kids, so they haven't complained about the swapping yet...
[04:14] <cc> Evo with junk mail filtering requires more, i think.
[04:14] <srbaker> Keybuk, yeah, i know.
[04:14] <lypanov> koffice + konqi + kmail runs just fine in 128 iirc
[04:14] <rburton> cc: the junk filtering is just spamassassin
[04:14] <lamont> OTOH, warty is much faster than what they had before (which was 64MB...)
[04:14] <lamont> I haven't felt the need to explain apples vs oranges to them on this point.
[04:15] <srbaker> well, gnome runs fine in 128M for me.  except evo
[04:15] <srbaker> evo is a pig.
[04:15] <rburton> Keybuk: you might as well set up a bot which every 5 minutes says "that is shared footprint" in all irc channels you are in
[04:15] <cc> rburton: yes, forking off a new sa thread for each message. ran it on a machine w/128mb of ram and kept on getting POP timeouts. up'ed the machine to 640mb of ram, and its a breeze :)
[04:15] <djempak> GNOME didn't run too well with only 128MB of RAM in Fedora for me
[04:15] <rburton> cc: then use spamd
[04:15] <srbaker> djempak, i ran fedora on 128M for months.
[04:16] <srbaker> then i found an extra 256M, that helped, but it was still nice
[04:16] <rburton> djempak: i found warty faster than fedora, somehow
[04:16] <srbaker> rburton, fedora's kernel is slow on my hardware too
[04:16] <djempak> but of course they recommend 192MB so I didn't really complain
[04:16] <srbaker> i think it's because they disabled modules.
[04:16] <cc> rburton: possibly because fedora's kernel has a lot of stuff built in? should check /boot/config-* and get a diff
[04:16] <djempak> does ubuntu support SMP out of the box?
[04:17] <Keybuk> rburton: it's sad people need telling <g>
[04:18] <lamont> djempak: dunno about first boot, but apt-get install linux-image-2.6-686-smp should result in happiness if not...
[04:18] <lamont> s/686/whatever/
[04:18] <djempak> ah
[04:18] <Kamion> lamont: any clue why koffice failed on i386/powerpc?
[04:18] <rburton> Keybuk: though my evo2 does have a 23M heap atm
[04:18] <Kamion> lamont: a friend is asking me
[04:18] <ggi> How does the plug-in-a-mouse-and-have-it-just-work thing work? Is it just through /dev/input/mice?
[04:19] <Kamion> ggi: yup
[04:19] <lamont> Kamion: kdelibs FTBFS on ppc (segv, reproducable).  kdebase is FTBFS (missing build depends, awaiting archive processing)
[04:19] <lamont> between those, I'd say they explain koffice anywhere
[04:19] <Kamion> it seems to have built on amd64 somehow
[04:20] <lypanov> someone noted that kde 3.3 is fucked on ppc atm
[04:21] <Kosai> ggi: I've done so here, if you run into trouble.
[04:22] <lamont> lypanov: yeah.  ppc is not happy with kde.
[04:22] <cc> isn't ubuntu a gnome based distro?
[04:22] <nawty> argh, anyone round here want to help me get rid of a cacti install that wont go away ?
[04:22] <lamont> cc: yeah, but 'universe is big'
[04:23] <lamont> cc: we don't stop you from installing universe packages, we just don't do support (security fixes) for universe.
[04:23] <cc> lamont: fair enough. getting around the terminology, "universe packages" would be stuff from Debian itself?
[04:23] <ggi> Kosai: I should manage fine, I was just hoping it would be set up automagically. The touchpad, that is.
[04:24] <matlads> can I ugrade from woody to ubuntu directly?
[04:24] <lamont> cc: universe == the rest of debian/main at this point.  about 97-98% built successfully
[04:24] <lamont> kde would be a fair chunk of the 2%, btw.
[04:24] <lamont> actually, large parts of kde built just fine.  But they're not installable
[04:25] <cc> lamont: ok, thanks. terminology got a bit confusing, maybe a wiki page for it might be good (for the non-Debian among us)
[04:25] <dieman> heh
[04:25] <dieman> lamont: so the /.-ing of our mirror server convinced one of the univ networking people that we need more bw to our mirror boxes
[04:25] <cc> and whomever said, disable root, made a sane decision. i tried pushing that before, and was shot down by "SELinux will fix that"
[04:25] <Kamion> dieman: cool
[04:25] <andred> Canon Digital IXUS 400 .fdi file attached to https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1286
[04:26] <dieman> lamont: so they are thinking of pulling a few extra gigE links to a switch they provide with gigE on it
[04:26] <thom> andred: great
[04:26] <dieman> lamont: *and* pull us around the packetshaper :)
[04:26] <Leoric> Do you have any numbers on how many people that have ordered a cd?
[04:26] <thom> Leoric: it's in the thousands afaik
[04:27] <Leoric> :)
[04:27] <MacPlusG3> cc: i totally agree with you :) ubuntu gets it with that :)
[04:27] <lamont> dieman: glad to be of service. :0)
[04:27] <Leoric> a slashdotted cdburner
[04:27] <cc> MacPlusG3: hey! fancy seeing you here too :P if you need ISOs, i'm grabbing x86/ppc now
[04:27] <MacPlusG3> i've got x86
[04:27] <MacPlusG3> finally got something booting
[04:27] <Kamion> cc: disabling root was certainly a controversial decision
[04:28] <MacPlusG3> Kamion: no doubt :)
[04:28] <lamont> cc: smaller groups are easier to convince sometimes..
[04:28] <cc> Kamion: its a good decision though, imho.
[04:28] <MacPlusG3> yeah - my counter to anyone saying that there must be root is: go explain it to my mother
[04:28] <nawty> anyone ?
[04:29] <nawty> do you think if i threaten this ubuntu install with a reinstall to fedora or somthing equally as terrible it will be scare ?
[04:29] <nawty> scared even
[04:30] <Kamion> nawty: sorry, bit confused about what your problem is ...
[04:30] <lamont> Kamion:
 argh, anyone round here want to help me get rid of a cacti install that wont go away ?
[04:30] <lamont> damn fingers
[04:31] <Kamion> still confused though :)
[04:31] <cef> lo MacPlusG3, see you've finally made it then.. *grin*
[04:31] <Kamion> maybe error messages would help ...
[04:31] <lamont> nawty: exactly what error are you getting?
[04:31] <nawty> lets first explain what i did
[04:31] <MacPlusG3> cef: yeah... hit some bugs during install :)
[04:31] <nawty> then ill explain what the error is
[04:31] <nawty> i first installed cacti
[04:31] <nawty> and then it got to the cacti configure thingum
[04:31] <nawty> so then i tried to type in the whole bits and pieces so it wouldnt work
[04:32] <nawty> so then i tried to remove it considering i was sure i broke the mysql install
[04:32] <cef> cc: pffft, I knew who you were.. *grin*
[04:32] <nawty> so i ctrl-c'ed out of the cacti configure and tried to remove it
[04:32] <cc> cef: haha. so those boxes would be mighty handy now :P
[04:32] <nawty> now it wont let me remove cacti fully :(
[04:32] <lamont> and what does it say?
[04:32] <lamont> when you try, that is.
[04:32] <nawty> Ack!  Something bad happened while installing packages.  Trying to recover:
[04:32] <cef> cc: heh.. soon soon
[04:33] <nawty> there's of course more
[04:33] <nawty> but thats the most impressive looking line :)
[04:33] <cef> cc: I can probably do so on the weekend sometime..
[04:33] <lamont> nawty: the official answer to that is 'dpkg --configure cacti' and answer the questions...
[04:33] <nawty> aaaaah
[04:33] <lamont> but you probably want something different...
[04:33] <nawty> ok no wiat
[04:33] <nawty> waaait
[04:33] <nawty> stop the buss
[04:33] <nawty> configure cacti
[04:33] <nawty> seem's to say :
[04:34] <nawty> dpkg: error processing cacti (--configure):
[04:34] <nawty>  package cacti is already installed and configured
[04:34] <nawty> wooonderfully
[04:34] <Kamion> dpkg --configure -a
[04:34] <Kinnison> dpkg --configure -a
[04:34] <Kamion> heh
[04:34] <Kinnison> bah; Kamion beat me to it
[04:34] <nawty> heh
[04:34] <nawty> now dont rush all at once :)
[04:34] <cef> snap!
[04:34] <Kamion> if that works then you should be in a sane state
[04:34] <Kamion> then try removing again
[04:34] <nawty> nope still wont remove

[04:35] <nawty> dpkg: error processing cacti (--remove):
[04:35] <nawty>  subprocess pre-removal script returned error exit status 10
[04:35] <nawty> I: Skipping configuration
[04:35] <nawty> Errors were encountered while processing:
[04:35] <nawty>  cacti

[04:35] <Kinnison> Mmmm pre-remove errors
[04:36] <lamont> nawty: how comfortable are you hacking around on packages?
[04:36] <nawty> i'm slowly reminding myself why i dont like debian :)
[04:36] <elmo_dc> kamion: is a failure at the "Install grub boot-loader on the hard disk" stage a known bug and/or likely to be fixed by preview?  I'm using today-2 daily, on a DL380
[04:37] <nawty> lamont: i would prefer to just remove the package :) but if you would like me to fiddle around i would be more than happy to
[04:37] <lamont> nawty: step 1 is vi /var/lib/dpkg/info/cacti.postrm and add -x to the #!/bin/sh, to see where the exit 10 comes from.
[04:37] <lamont> step to is [handwaving]  make the script succeed.
[04:37] <lamont> s/to/2/
[04:38] <tuo2> lamont: heh.
[04:38] <lamont> tuo2: handwaving is all I can do on step 2.
[04:38] <nawty> ok, so now one would ownder
[04:38] <nawty> if it doesnt actually give any errors :P
[04:38] <nawty> what is the reason :P
[04:38] <lamont> right.
[04:38] <nawty> ownder == wonder
[04:38] <tuo2> lamont: I know. but it's still a bit funny.
[04:38] <lamont> package removal scripts are some of the sadder scripts in debian.
[04:39] <nawty> added the -x
[04:39] <nawty> now i get :
[04:39] <tuo2> step 1: steal millions of socks.
[04:39] <nawty> fawkes:/var# sh "lib/dpkg/info/cacti.postrm"
[04:39] <nawty> I: Skipping configuration
[04:39] <nawty> and that would be it
[04:39] <tuo2> step 2: .....
[04:39] <nawty> wonderfull aint it :P
[04:39] <tuo2> step 3: profit!
[04:39] <lamont> nawty: did you edit the file?
[04:39] <nawty> yes
[04:39] <nawty> #!/bin/sh -x
[04:40] <lamont> elmo_dc: you have mail wrt archive uploads...
[04:40] <dieman> elmo_dc: hey.
[04:40] <dieman> elmo_dc: just sent you a email on the network situation here.
[04:40] <dieman> elmo_dc: we woke up a giant and he wants to give us more bandwidth.
[04:41] <Kamion> elmo_dc: uh, depends ... any interesting filesystems or anything? anything interesting on tty3/tty4?
[04:41] <ggi> That's my synaptics touchpad working fine. I bet that could be done automatically though. *bitch, bitch*
[04:41] <matlads> can I ugrade from woody to ubuntu directly?
[04:41] <rburton> ggi: file a bug?
[04:41] <rburton> matlads: you can, but there are rough edges.
[04:41] <Kamion> I thought we did make synaptics work automatically? we certainly meant to, but maybe something slipped
[04:41] <rburton> i.e. hotplugging won't work unless you add yourself to groups
[04:42] <matlads> rburton, has anyone tried it, or written a report on that?
[04:42] <ggi> rburton: I think I shall. Fun!
[04:43] <elmo_dc> kamion: default install, so ext3, I'll check
[04:43] <elmo_dc> dieman: oh?
[04:43] <elmo_dc> lamont: is it urgent?
[04:43] <Kamion> rburton: oh, you mean all of this is just plugdev?
[04:43] <Kamion> we so need a FAQ on that, if there isn't one already :)
[04:44] <lamont> elmo_dc: urgent question is 'is cron.daily not running, then?"
[04:44] <rburton> Kamion: the plugdev group and all admin tools expecting sudo to work are the first two major issues i can see
[04:44] <lamont> nawty: uh, givien that you're trying to nuke it, and never really finished the install, and looking at the prerm...
[04:44] <lamont> if it was my machine, I'd add line 2 of the script,saying 'exit 0'
[04:44] <ggi> Kamion: Well, it sort of worked automatically, but like a PS/2 mouse, instead of a touchpad. Tap-to-click didn't work, and neither did finger-scrolling. Oh, and it moved too fast to control properly.
[04:45] <rburton> ggi: aha, i have the way-to-fast problem with a ps2 mouse
[04:45] <nawty> lamont: erm... i seem to have fixe dit with
[04:45] <nawty> lamont: apt-get -f install :)
[04:45] <nawty> no wait, premature happyness
[04:45] <nawty> still the same
[04:45] <lamont> nawty: it's just trying to muck about with things that debconf is going to remove momentarily anyway...
[04:46] <lamont> so I'd add the exit 0, and then dpkg --purge cacti
[04:47] <nawty> for the record, i dont see anywhere that exits with a status 10
[04:47] <lamont> it's one of the db_* things, and those all run in a subshell
[04:47] <ggi> rburton: I don't think that's the same problem. I get the same thing on Debian if I just configure the touchpad as a generic PS/2 mouse.
[04:47] <matlads> lamont: have you tried apt-get --reinstall ?
[04:48] <nawty> lamont: erm..., can you see anywhere in there that might have that issue ?
[04:48] <lamont> it'd be in the debconf manual what 10 means, but it's certainly a bug in the cacti prerm script
[04:49] <lamont> matlads: that'll just get him back to the configure screen, where he was earlier, and doesn't want to go...
[04:50] <nawty> lamont: i've reinstalled and now im abnout to try remove :)
[04:51] <dieman> elmo_dc: yeah, we might be getting some extra gige connections for the mirrors
[04:51] <dieman> elmo_dc: and pull them around the packetshaper
[04:51] <elmo_dc> lamont: err, yes, it was sorry.. must have done that post-release... undone
[04:51] <elmo_dc> dieman: cool
[04:52] <lamont> elmo_dc: thanks muchly.  we
[04:52] <lamont> 'll smack offenders with jdub.
[04:52] <nawty> lamont: attempting to reconfigure now :)
[04:52] <lamont> elmo_dc: that'll get kde into universe better for some people...
[04:53] <jdub> lamont: who are we going to smack?
[04:53] <lamont> jdub: anyone who uploads packages during the preview->release timeframe without blessings from god.
[04:53] <jdub> i want in on this smacking adventure
[04:54] <tuo2> heh
[04:54] <lamont> jdub: it's an administrative problem, not a technical one...
[04:54] <jdub> lamont: where god is mdz, and me his archangel?
[04:54] <lamont> yep.
[04:54] <Dr_WIllis> Sucess at installing on an Emachine 6811 laptop
[04:54] <Kamion> jdub: you are the Metatron
[04:54] <lamont> archanges have to do the smackdown-work.
[04:54] <jdub> oh dude
[04:54] <jdub> that is the coolest
[04:54] <jdub> Kamion: that makes me so happy :-)
[04:54] <tuo2> Kamion: Metratron == Voice of God, yeah?
[04:55] <tuo2> and != Transformer?
[04:55] <jdub> heh, yeah
[04:55] <Kamion> lamont: 10 is badparams
[04:55] <Keybuk> see, how I have imagery of jdub pretending to be Alan Rickman ...
[04:55] <jdub> although if i can summon breakdancing transformers, that would also be cool
[04:55] <lamont> Kamion: don't look at the script, you'll puke.
[04:55] <jdub> i totally want to be alan rickman
[04:55] <Kamion> no, Metatron is from the Third Book of Enoch via Dogma
[04:55] <tuo2> lamont: if my strict catholic upbringing serves me correctly.....
[04:56] <Kamion> (Enoch 3 rocks)
[04:56] <Kamion> (but is EXTREMELY hard to find)
[04:56] <elmo_dc> kamion: GAR
[04:56] <elmo_dc> kamion: /dev/cciss/c0d0p1 does not have any corresponding drive
[04:56] <jdub> Kamion: it also means i get to hang out with alanis.
[04:56] <Kamion> elmo_dc: is that grub?
[04:56] <lamont> Kamion: _7_ levels of if deep, he does an rm.  Many of those if's are checking the return from db_get.
[04:56] <jdub> and feign tortured mental anguish and stuff.
[04:56] <elmo_dc> kamion: isn't that like an unbelivably old "grub doesn't handle compaq smartarray" bug that's been in debian since d-i supported grub?
[04:56] <elmo_dc> kamion: yeah, think so, it's on F3
[04:57] <tuo2> Kamion:Metatron is an Archangel and a Seraphim who sits beside God.... no?
[04:57] <Kamion> elmo_dc: crap, possible
[04:57] <Kamion> elmo_dc: you could run in expert mode and use lilo instead
[04:57] <nawty> anyone know if the cacti deb actually includes the cron stuff ?
[04:57] <nawty> never mind, it does :)
[04:57] <lamont> tuo2: I'll believe you
[04:58] <Kamion> tuo2: the story goes that Enoch got taken directly into heaven without dying (per Genesis), and became some kind of lieutenant of God called the Metatron
[04:58] <elmo_dc> kamion: I can edit /boot/grub/device.map too, that'll probably fix it if my changes are preserved
[04:58] <tuo2> Kamion: good good.
[04:58] <tuo2> sounds about right.
[04:58] <Kamion> anyway, stonkingly off-topic
[04:58] <tuo2> Kamion: that is also true.
[04:58] <Kamion> elmo_dc: if you can find the Debian bug about it ...
[04:59] <tuo2> night all.
[04:59] <Kamion> elmo_dc: oh, #258022?
[05:00] <jdub> Kamion: stonkingly.
[05:01] <elmo_dc> kamion: yeah
[05:01] <elmo_dc> (there were definitely earlier ones too tho)
[05:01] <Kamion> elmo_dc: any idea whether it's coming from grub-install or update-grub?
[05:02] <Kamion> elmo_dc: never mind, I guess both have to be changed
[05:02] <elmo_dc> kamion: grub-install .. oh
[05:03] <FrustratedPPCIns> Has anyone been able to get ubuntu to install on a G4 powermac?
[05:03] <FrustratedPPCIns> I've burned the ISO, but it won't boot even when I start with C held down :-(
[05:03] <Kamion> FrustratedPPCIns: plenty of G4 powerbooks, not sure about powermacs
[05:04] <Kamion> FrustratedPPCIns: I'd make sure it burned correctly as a first instance ... try looking at the contents of the CD in some other OS
[05:04] <Kamion> should have dists/, pool/, etc. at the top-level
[05:04] <FrustratedPPCIns> Thanks Kamion - it looks fine on my Fedora machine, but even in Mac OS X the disc isn't mountable - suggests a dodgy ISO or perhaps one that the Mac can'tread?>
[05:04] <Kamion> (I'm typing this on a G4 powerbook, BTW ...)
[05:05] <FrustratedPPCIns> So I'm trying to burn it on an older, slower CD burner as I've seen a few threads about that.
[05:05] <Kamion> that's interesting, I might suggest burning at a lower speed
[05:05] <Kamion> yeah
[05:05] <Kamion> I don't think there'd be anything particularly specific to the ISO about this, or at least if there were it would happen to everyone ...
[05:06] <FrustratedPPCIns> Agreed - that's what I was thinking. It looks normal on my other machines, but the Mac doesn't seem to like the disc.
[05:06] <FrustratedPPCIns> It's about time there was a decent installer for PPC - YellowDog notwithstanding.
[05:06] <Kamion> elmo_dc: oh my god, the code in update-grub to convert device names is a nightmare
[05:06] <Dr_WIllis> for linux on macs befor. I often (on my old imac) had to boot to the firmware and force it to boot off the cd
[05:07] <Kamion> FrustratedPPCIns: in all fairness I should say that we basically just use Debian's in-development installer with a number of tweaks :)
[05:07] <Dr_WIllis> i cant rember HOW i did that however. :P
[05:07] <Kamion> well, "tweaks" is possibly too small a description now, but
[05:07] <robster> FrustratedPPCIns: could you try dd'ing from the block device in fedora and md5sum'ing against the original
[05:07] <elmo_dc> kamion: yeah :(
[05:07] <Kamion> Dr_WIllis: sometimes holding down the option key during boot to get the graphical menu thing is easier
[05:08] <robster> FrustratedPPCIns: s/could you/you could/
[05:08] <Kamion> Dr_WIllis: also I believe some systems require Command-Option-Shift-Delete rather than C
[05:08] <FrustratedPPCIns> I don't get any options from the graphical menu, only Mac OS X.
[05:08] <Dr_WIllis> Kamion,  yea. i had issues and never could get some of that stuff to work. Perhaps I was holding the key down too hard.
[05:09] <Kamion> FrustratedPPCIns: sounds like the CD is totally unreadable by the drive, so I doubt that software solutions will help
[05:09] <Dr_WIllis> Kamion,  i was sort of amazed tht Apple could have such a user 'friendly' os/gui - and the deeper stuff be very very odd/obscoure/weird. :P
[05:09] <Kamion> Dr_WIllis: booting powerpcs is often a bit of a black art, yes
[05:10] <Dr_WIllis> Kamion,  lol :P thats being nice about it.
[05:11] <lamont> jdub: if you're keeping score: xresprobe_0.4.7 gnome-themes_2.8.0-0ubuntu2 kdenetwork_4:3.2.2-1ubuntu2 kdebase_4:3.2.2-1ubuntu2 cuyo_1.8.3-4ubuntu1
[05:12] <seb128> score of what ?
[05:12] <Kamion> uploads since preview, I'd guess
[05:12] <lamont> yep
[05:13] <matlads>
[05:13] <lamont> or rather, I knew about 3 of those, but not the first 2...
[05:13] <dieman> he
[05:13] <dieman> heh
[05:13] <dieman> bdale: yeah, my 1mbps dsl is going nuts too
[05:13] <seb128> lamont: that's ok to upload ?
[05:13] <bdale> over 50 kB/s in the first 10 seconds...
[05:14] <seb128> or we should only fix critical bugs ?
[05:14] <Dr_WIllis> i was able to get the cd last night at over 400k/s :P
[05:14] <bdale> now over 60...
[05:14] <dieman> bdale: our mirror server here has been pegged at 350 connections
[05:14] <jdub> lamont: unconfirmed? :)
[05:14] <jdub> hey bdale
[05:14] <Kamion> seb128: AFAIK same rules as before preview still apply ...
[05:14] <dieman> bdale: and pusing 50mbps or so
[05:14] <Kamion> seeing as we're still in preview freeze
[05:14] <thom> mine was at about All: Spd: 104.9 KB/0
[05:14] <lamont> seb128: anything you can get mdz/jdub to bless is uploadable.  Otherwise, you die a horrible death
[05:14] <dieman> bdale: alltho we did get rateshaped at one point by the network people because we kept on breaking the network
[05:14] <bdale> dieman: ;-)
[05:14] <bdale> 123 and rising
[05:15] <seb128> jdub: GNOME bugs should be fixed, or just red lines in bugzilla ?
[05:15] <lamont> jdub: the last 3 met criteria from last night.
[05:15] <dieman> ahh, im only giving out 25KB/s now
[05:15] <dieman> i was doing more before
[05:15] <bdale> hovering at 125 kB/s
[05:15] <dieman> i should really port forward the connections
[05:16] <dieman> thats the big problem
[05:16] <spacehymns> my 3mb connection couldn't serve up more than 10 kB/s
[05:16] <jdub> seb128: bugs should be proposed for raising to critical/blocker status
[05:16] <jdub> seb128: then they need upload confirmation from mdz or myself
[05:16] <jdub> seb128: same as before
[05:16] <bdale> a T1 is 1.544 Mb/s symmetrical, and mine is directly on Sprintlink.
[05:16] <seb128> jdub: arg
[05:16] <lamont> Kamion: fwiw, the "criteria from last night" was the kde-in-ubuntu discussion that ended with "no additional risk in making universe things that were ftbfs,source-only in the preview (like kde) build and have binaries.
[05:16] <bdale> just passed 150 kB/s
[05:17] <seb128> jdub: I've uploaded a gnome-themes with smooth in depends to get it into warty ...
[05:17] <jdub> seb128: yeah, saw those, totally fine :)
[05:17] <seb128> ok
[05:17] <bdale> mix is 110/33/4 for i386/powerpc/amd64 at the moment
[05:17] <dieman> heh
[05:17] <jdub> seb128: we might loosen those rules a bit when matt and i sync up
[05:17] <spacehymns> mix of what?
[05:18] <bdale> upload kB/s, a weak first-order proxy for level of interest by BT downloaders
[05:18] <spacehymns> ahhhh
[05:18] <seb128> jdub: would be nice to be allowed to fix GNOME bugs without asking :p
[05:18] <jdub> seb128: ok, i'll chat to matt about it ;)
[05:18] <bdale> amd64 just jumped up big-time, it's 100/30/30 now
[05:19] <spacehymns> oh... that must be my 26-node amd64 cluster
[05:19] <bdale> oh well, enough noise, interesting to see lots of folks snarfing via bittorrent, which is cool
[05:19] <dieman> there we go, setup the port forward
[05:20] <highvoltage> hi guys, what have I missed in here since this morning :)
[05:20] <bdale> highvoltage: it's morning now...  ;-)
[05:20] <highvoltage> the room has definately got bigger
[05:20] <highvoltage> must be the slashdot effect
[05:20] <spacehymns> yep
[05:23] <ggi> I'm filing a bug. Should I tick the "People who can see the Warty Warthog bugs" box?
[05:24] <jdub> ggi: nah
[05:24] <jdub> ggi: sorry that'sconfusing
[05:25] <ggi> jdub: Ok then. Should I file a bug on that too? :P
[05:28] <Mayday> is this the torrent to use to download ubuntu: http://archive.ubuntu.com/cdimage/releases/warty/preview/warty-i386.iso.torrent ?
[05:28] <Kamion> Mayday: yep
[05:28] <spacehymns> that looks right
[05:28] <Mayday> ok thanks
[05:30] <kl> hi, i was just looking at the screenshots, unfortunately i don't have the time to install a new distro right now, but i'd very much like to have that menu patch for gnome-panel, anyone know where it's located? i'm browsing the distro mirrors, but i can't seem to find it
[05:31] <MacPlusG3> goodnight ppl - congrats on a great preview release!
[05:32] <jdub> ggi: i'll make sure that's fixed, thanks
[05:32] <defendguin> i like the choice of firefox as the default browser. awesome choice
[05:33] <spacehymns> yeah, I'm tired of Konqueror
[05:33] <ninja> installing Ubuntu didn't go too well - machine kept freezing at varying points within the first 30-60 seconds of running the installer :(
[05:33] <azeem> yeah, so you can configure your proxy twice :)
[05:33] <highvoltage> where do I find the universe?
[05:33] <spacehymns> right here
[05:33] <ninja> unfortunately nothing reproducible enough to warrant a bug report
[05:33] <sivang> highvoltage : you have to add sources
[05:33] <highvoltage> and how do I define it in my sources.list?
[05:34] <sivang> highvoltage : you have to add sources to your /etc/apt/sources.list
[05:34] <sivang> acutally, you just need to add the word "universe"
[05:34] <highvoltage> I know, I'd just like to know the address :)
[05:34] <highvoltage> ah, ok
[05:34] <sivang> after the "main"
[05:34] <highvoltage> thanks
[05:34] <beezly> heheh
[05:34] <beezly> our mail servers stuffed
[05:34] <beezly> one half of it's mirror failed
[05:34] <beezly> then whilst it was resyncing, the other half popped its clogs
[05:34] <FrustratedPPCIns> Karmion - thank you, slow burn on old burner has produced a CD my G4 can read.
[05:35] <beezly> 30,000 staff and students... down the pan :)
[05:35] <Kamion> FrustratedPPCIns: cool
[05:37] <Kamion> kl: if you're comfortable using interdiff (it's in the Debian patchutils package), you could extract it from the .diff.gz in http://archive.ubuntulinux.org/ubuntu/pool/main/g/gnome-panel/
[05:37] <kl> aaaah, thanks
[05:37] <Kamion> beezly: yay for homogeneous disk arrays :-/
[05:37] <cc> /dev/ide/host0/bus0/target0/lun0/part3: Not enough space to build proposed filesystem while setting up superblock <-- known ppc error?
[05:38] <Kamion> cc: not one I've ever heard of
[05:38] <Kamion> cc: default partitioning, or manual?
[05:38] <cc> Kamion: doing a manual partition
[05:38] <Kamion> cc: if you can extract /var/log/partman for the bug report, that might be useful
[05:39] <cc> Kamion: ok. dhcp also didn't work on the imacDVse. so i'll bugreport it. just registered for a bugzilal account
[05:40] <cc> Kamion: ok. in the console, there's no scp or anything? how do i push this to another machine conveniently?
[05:40] <FrustratedPPCIns> OK, Mac OS X can see my disk, in openfirmware do I need to type boot cd:,\install\
[05:40] <Kamion> cc: you should have nc
[05:41] <cc> ah. nc.
[05:41] <highvoltage> Why was Evolution chosen as the default mail client instead of thunderbird?
[05:41] <Kamion> cc: you might be able to extract scp from stuff in /cdrom/pool/main/o/openssh/, but it's not exactly a non-expert path ...
[05:41] <[Clint] > FrustratedPPCIns: try boot cd:,\install\yaboot
[05:41] <highvoltage> I like evolution, but I thought Mark was a big fan of thunderbird
[05:41] <cc> Kamion: yeah, my debian-fu is obviously clearly lacking. i'm very used to anaconda
[05:41] <Kamion> I suspect we had an argument about evolution; it was one I avoided :)
[05:41] <FrustratedPPCIns> Gah - I get bad READ-1 can't open
[05:42] <jdub> highvoltage: evolution is a great product, supports groupware functions, etc.
[05:43] <jdub> highvoltage: thunderbird is always available in supported for those who want it, though :)
[05:43] <jdub> Kamion: no argument on that one ;)
[05:43] <Kamion> cc: by the time we get to hoary I should be able to give you one-liner instructions to get scp on the second console
[05:43] <Kamion> I did a fair bit of work on that in Debian, but some of it's still ongoing
[05:43] <highvoltage> I know, I use it too. It's just that he has bounties for it on his site, and he uses it, so I would have thought that he would push thunderbird. I was just curious on why or how evolution was chosen
[05:43] <cc> Kamion: yeah, its just a case of me actually getting used to d-i
[05:44] <highvoltage> I deducted that it's because it's now part of GNOME (right?) and it makes sense to use it
[05:44] <Kamion> highvoltage: we don't *always* go for Mark's personal preferences ... :-)
[05:44] <Kamion> *ahem*
[05:44] <highvoltage> ah
[05:44] <highvoltage> :)
[05:44] <jdub> heh
[05:45] <jdub> highvoltage: gotta weigh up appropriateness for the majority of users, market leadership, etc., etc.
[05:46] <Kamion> elmo_dc: do we (or Debian) have a box with cciss that I could log into and experiment?
[05:47] <highvoltage> I know this is way off-topic, but you guys might appreciate it, I have a useless CD that I use as a coaster: http://<IP_ADDRESS>/coaster.jpg
[05:47] <tritium> :)
[05:47] <falkryn> heh
[05:48] <Kamion> highvoltage: certainly appreciate the choice of disk ... :)
[05:48] <highvoltage> thanks ;) I wish they would stop sending me stuff
[05:48] <falkryn> hey, if there's developpers on this channel I just wanted to extend a job very very well done kudos, I installed ubuntu at work this morning, very slick
[05:49] <falkryn> this may take the place as my favorite distro now (previously help between slackware and debian(
[05:50] <jdub> falkryn: awesome, thanks :)
[05:50] <jdub> falkryn: we're all here ;)
[05:50] <Kamion> falkryn: yup, this was originally our development channel ;)
[05:50] <falkryn> cool
[05:50] <highvoltage> I couldn't decide between slack and debian and gentoo
[05:50] <highvoltage> I think ubuntu made it easy for me now
[05:51] <highvoltage> (but first I'll download the universe)
[05:51] <dieman> why doesn't gpdf have a search feature?!
[05:51] <highvoltage> so there goes our bandwidth again :)
[05:54] <mxpxpod> jdub: ok, so what's the main diff between ubuntu and debian?
[05:54] <rburton> mxpxpod: ubuntu just works, debian needs love
[05:55] <mxpxpod> rburton: heh
[05:55] <highvoltage> debian has slower release cycles
[05:55] <highvoltage> (very slow), making it almost useless for desktop use
[05:55] <mxpxpod> I noticed that ubuntu already has gnome 2.8 in too :D
[05:55] <andred> Can someone confirm this: Open Computer->System Configuration->Printing, right-click on a printer and choose Properties. Change the name of the printer and choose 'Close'. The printer in the "Printers" window still has the old name.
[05:55] <highvoltage> Ubuuntu has bi-yearly releases, making it much more attractive for the average user
[05:56] <seb128> mxpxpod: with gnome-media 2.8.0 and epiphany 1.4.0 :p
[05:56] <mxpxpod> seb128: :P
[05:56] <rburton> andred: i noticed something similar this morning. you have to close and re-open printers to get it to refresh
[05:56] <mxpxpod> is there a ppc live cd?
[05:56] <Kamion> mxpxpod: afraid not
[05:56] <djempak> will the packages in main will be updated regularly?
[05:56] <Kamion> currently it's i386 only
[05:56] <djempak> eh -will
[05:56] <mxpxpod> Kamion: suck
[05:56] <Kamion> mxpxpod: (but it's one of the things I want to look at, as a powerpc porter)
[05:56] <andred> rbutron: It doesn't help doing that here even.
[05:57] <Kamion> djempak: they're mostly frozen for warty now, but when hoary opens up, yes
[05:57] <djempak> ah
[05:57] <mxpxpod> Kamion: I'm scared to install ubuntu w/o checking it out first...
[05:57] <highvoltage> hoary? was that name suggested by a gentoo developer :)
[05:58] <rburton> mxpxpod: i'm running sid on my laptop for DD work, but my work desktop is ubuntu and my home desktop will be shortly. its lovely :)
[05:58] <rburton> mxpxpod: the gnome menu reorg by jdub/seb128 is really nice
[05:58] <mxpxpod> does ubuntu have pretty much the same packages as debian?
[05:58] <Kamion> highvoltage: not as far as I know :)
[05:59] <highvoltage> I hava another question (sorry to be a pest)...
[05:59] <highvoltage> how do I become a ubuntu developer?
[05:59] <Kamion> mxpxpod: depends what you mean; warty started out as a snapshot of sid, has been worked on by variously syncing new versions from sid or by making Ubuntu-specific changes
[05:59] <highvoltage> Is there a "whishlist" of stuff that needs to be done?
[05:59] <andred> Should crashes in stuff like gnome-cups-manager be reported upstreams, or to Ubuntu?
[06:00] <highvoltage> i would love to help where I can
[06:00] <ish> hmm.. lists not on gmane yet.
[06:00] <highvoltage> I also want to learn about stuff
[06:00] <highvoltage> I'm quite envious of you guys, I want to make my own distro too
[06:01] <jsan> Hello, does ubuntu offer network installation?
[06:01] <Kamion> highvoltage: I don't think we can coherently answer that *yet*, but we *are* working on setting up the infrastructure we need for that
[06:03] <Kamion> jsan: http://archive.ubuntulinux.org/ubuntu/dists/warty/main/installer-i386/netboot/, when it isn't quite so slashdotted
[06:03] <kl> ubuntu's panel is indeed nice, though it says "about ubuntu" on my gentoo too now =]
[06:03] <lypanov> yoyo clee
[06:03] <jsan> Kamion: cool, thanks
[06:03] <clee> daniels: dude.
[06:03] <clee> daniels: wtf is up with tycho
[06:03] <clee> ?
[06:05] <mxpxpod> does ubuntu come with make-kpkg (or can I get it)?
[06:05] <maswan> Kamion: http://ftp.acc.umu.se/mirror/ubuntu/dists/warty/main/installer-i386/current/images/netboot/ ?
[06:05] <Kamion> maswan: bingo
[06:05] <lypanov> clee: he said something about uber high load
[06:06] <clee> lypanov: wtf. I saw that on gabe, but ... tycho doesn't *do* anything
[06:06] <lypanov> clee: hehe. maybe net went down? :P
[06:06] <clee> lypanov: what are you doing in here, anyway? :)
[06:06] <lypanov> clee: gonna try the cd in the coming few days :)
[06:06] <clee> lypanov: nice :)
[06:08] <mxpxpod> ok, quick questions:
[06:08] <mxpxpod> 1. does the ubuntu installer support xfs?
[06:08] <clee> mxpxpod: yes.
[06:08] <Kamion> mxpxpod: yes, but not on /boot
[06:08] <Kamion> (grub fails)
[06:08] <Kamion> mxpxpod: oh, hey, you're on ppc - should be fine then
[06:09] <mxpxpod> Kamion: cool... my /boot is ext2
[06:09] <mxpxpod> 2. do I have to format the partitions I specify for the installer to use? (like /home)
[06:09] <clee> mxpxpod: I don't think so, but I could be wrong...
[06:09] <Kamion> mxpxpod: you can either tell the installer to format them, or you can say "use existing data on this partition" (or whatever it says)
[06:09] <mxpxpod> Kamion: awesome
[06:10] <Kamion> mxpxpod: definitely use the manual partitioning option, of course
[06:10] <mxpxpod> Kamion: of course :)
[06:10] <mxpxpod> btw, how do I grab the iso's using bittorrent?
[06:10] <clee> mxpxpod: ... have you ever downloaded something with bittorrent before?
[06:11] <mxpxpod> clee: I have, but it was a long time ago...
[06:11] <tseng> mxpxpod, grab the .torrent
[06:11] <mxpxpod> tseng: got it
[06:11] <tseng> with wget or something and run the bittorrent client against it
[06:11] <falkryn> if one wants to, could you run a 2.4 vanilla custom kernel instead of the provided 2.6?
[06:11] <tseng> falkryn: alot of stuff in the distro depends on udev
[06:12] <tseng> but you could if you really wanted to i guess
[06:12] <clee> mxpxpod: if you have the official bittorrent client stuff, you can then do 'btdownloadcurses.py --repsonsefile filename.torrent'
[06:12] <falkryn> not so much me wanting to, another fellow here at work at this point refuses to run 2.6
[06:12] <mxpxpod> clee: awesome... I didn't know what the client's command was called
[06:12] <mxpxpod> falkryn: tell him he's paranoid
[06:12] <mxpxpod> :D
[06:12] <falkryn> heh
[06:13] <mxpxpod> I've run 2.6 since 2.6.2 (IIRC) and haven't had any problems
[06:13] <clee> mxpxpod: no prob
[06:13] <tseng> ive been using it since 2.5.20
[06:13] <mxpxpod> wait, no... I've run it since 2.5.something
[06:13] <tseng> ive had lots of problems :)
[06:13] <tseng> but that was then.
[06:13] <mxpxpod> tseng: really?
[06:13] <cc> is there a groupinstall option? like apt-get groupinstall gnome ?
[06:13] <cc> and it'll pull in depends and so on
[06:13] <falkryn> I think its the idea that there won't be a 2.7 tree for development now, and distros will be responsible for stabilization of the tree
[06:13] <tseng> yeah no problems for a long time now
[06:14] <falkryn> not crazy about that myself
[06:14] <tseng> falkryn: me neither
[06:14] <tseng> seeing as I develop a kernel for gentoo
[06:14] <trukulo> cc, you have metapackages, gnome is one of them (i think)
[06:14] <tseng> it makes me sad.
[06:14] <mxpxpod> wait a minute... there's not going to be a 2.7?
[06:14] <tseng> mxpxpod: not soon
[06:14] <mxpxpod> well, we didn't have a 2.5 very soon after 2.4...
[06:15] <tseng> well, they are going to do bigger developments than usual in the stable tree
[06:15] <tseng> instead of branching
[06:15] <clee> heh. bigger than replacing the entire VM during a stable tree?
[06:15] <mxpxpod> tseng: ohhhhhh, I see
[06:15] <tseng> they will only branch when they have something really hardcore
[06:15] <falkryn> but what;s this about distros doing the stabilization?
[06:15] <tseng> mxpxpod: its not a great idea if you ask me
[06:15] <mxpxpod> tseng: they should put a new kernel option in... "Run ultra unstable code..."
 I thought it was necessary for the Project Utopia stuff.
[06:17] <daniels> clee: i have no idea -- apparently it's just solidlocking
[06:17] <daniels> clee: happened earlier in the day, catastrophe had a look and it was solid-locked
[06:17] <jdub> ggi: it does run hald by default
[06:17] <clee> daniels: wtf, dude. who's doing that?
[06:17] <schweeb> ggi: yes, it is running
[06:17] <clee> daniels: btw, seen the load on gabe?
[06:17] <daniels> clee: um, you tell me?
[06:17] <clee> daniels: it was at 20 last I checked
[06:17] <daniels> wtf?
[06:18] <ggi> Well, it's not running for me, for some reason.  Yes/no?
[06:22] <mxpxpod> jdub: does the mad phat startup stuff work on ppc?
[06:22] <jdub> DrPascal: yes, can do, netboot images on the CD/ftp site
[06:22] <tseng> falkryn: i love gnome, gnome oriented distro.. so i installed it, and it rocked.
[06:22] <jdub> mxpxpod: mad phat startup will be in Hoary
[06:22] <DrPascal> jdub: Thanks! [gets]
[06:22] <mxpxpod> jdub: oh, ok
[06:22] <jdub> mxpxpod: and will work on every arch
[06:23] <mxpxpod> jdub: awesome
[06:23] <azeem> are there plans to GNOMEify synaptic a bit more on your tables?
[06:23] <falkryn> tseng:  I'm a big gnome fan now too.  2.8 is frickin' sweet.  Nice to see a new distro concentrating it instead of KDE.
[06:23] <kl> it'd be fantastic if the "Computer" menu incorporated the file chooser bookmarks :o
[06:24] <falkryn> no offence to KDE fans of course ;-)
[06:24] <lypanov> or devels :P
[06:24] <falkryn> heh
[06:24] <mxpxpod> does someone have a SS of the reorganized menu?
[06:24] <DrPascal> jdub: URL for where the netboot images are?
[06:24] <uberlinuxguy> I was just impressed as to how fast you guys got gnome 2.8 into the distro and released it.    Very cool.
[06:24] <DrPascal> [please]
[06:25] <jdub> http://ftp.acc.umu.se/mirror/ubuntu/dists/warty/main/installer-i386/current/images/netboot/
[06:25] <kl> mxpxpod, http://osdir.com/screenshots/index.php?directory=gnome2.8
[06:25] <DrPascal> jdub: Thanks again
[06:28] <mxpxpod> kl: thanks
[06:28] <mxpxpod> that layout rawks!!
[06:28] <kl> ya
[06:28] <mxpxpod> hazzah's are in order!
[06:28] <kl> just missing the file chooser bookmarks =]
[06:29] <jdub> kl: and dynamic disks list :)
[06:29] <mxpxpod> kl: oh well :)
[06:29] <mxpxpod> kl: maybe they'll update it ;)
[06:29] <lypanov> k
[06:29] <CJ2055> Hey, I'm a noob to ubuntu, I'm wondering if someone can help me in installing superkaramba
[06:29] <kl> that'd be great :)
[06:30] <lypanov> clee: me going off to buy the computer that i'll install ubuntu on :P
[06:30] <clee> lypanov: heheheheheh
[06:30] <clee> lypanov: well, good luck with that
[06:31] <lypanov> clee: :P
[06:31] <lypanov> clee: can't be arsed with gen2 anymore :P
[06:31] <CJ2055> only karamba is in the repository, is there a package for it, if not whatpackages do I have tp install in order to compile it
[06:32] <defendguin> i installed ubuntu on an extra /dev/hdd but i didnt want it writing over my grub bootloader i already have on the MBR so i was going to edit my grub.conf could anyone post their grub.conf?
[06:33] <falkryn> ls
[06:33] <falkryn> sorry
[06:33] <highvoltage> I'm off too now. I'm still really excited by ubuntu, and I'll visit the irc frequently... cu guys
[06:33] <falkryn> too many terminals
[06:33] <CJ2055> noone uses superkaramba then...
[06:33] <CJ2055> no pretty eyecandy?
[06:34] <falkryn> anyone have suggestions for a dialup tool in ubuntu (other than wvdial say?)
[06:34] <clee> I think they're more likely to use gdesklets
[06:34] <Kamion> defendguin: don't have a convenient i386 box right now, but if it helps, the Ubuntu installer detects entries in your existing grub configuration and includes them in the one it writes out
[06:34] <CJ2055> ah there you go, that was my next question, gnome version
[06:34] <CJ2055> thanks clee
[06:34] <jdub> CJ2055: 2.8
[06:35] <clee> jdub: no, he meant - what's the GNOME version of 'karamba' / 'superkaramba'
[06:35] <CJ2055> oh I meant a gnome version of karamba = gdesklets
[06:35] <clee> jdub: which would be gdesklets
[06:35] <defendguin> i got some sort of a parse error when i tried to do it on my own
[06:35] <jdub> oh right
[06:35] <mxpxpod> ok, here's a dumb question... if I do "Manually edit partition table" and want to add more swap space... I modify /dev/hda3 (swap) and take space away from /dev/hda5 (/), but leave /dev/hda6 (home) alone... will it screw up my home partition?
[06:36] <jdub> well, gdesklets is not in main, but may be in universe
[06:36] <jdub> mxpxpod: unlikely
[06:36] <jdub> mxpxpod: it's very well tested, and i've done the same thing on a number of machines
[06:36] <clee> mxpxpod: you've got backups, right? :)
[06:36] <mxpxpod> clee: actually, no
[06:37] <clee> mxpxpod: heh. um, I'd recommend them. :)
[06:37] <mxpxpod> clee: backing up 15G of data isn't the easiest thing in the world...
[06:38] <Kamion> my server's disk is functionally infinite capacity as far as I'm concerned at the moment
[06:39] <CJ2055> iPod is my backup tool
[06:39] <lamont> kdebase/i386 is in the archive
[06:39] <lamont> ditto kdebase/amd64.
[06:40] <lamont> with apologies to those preferring kde who use powerpc's. :-(
[06:40] <mxpxpod> I think I need a new cd...
[06:40] <defendguin> i know you all have a grub.conf could someone please let me see theirs
[06:41] <azeem> defendguin: just add /vmlinuz and /initrd.img
[06:41] <mxpxpod> defendguin: not all have a grub.conf... ppc users don't ;)
[06:41] <defendguin> heh
[06:41] <defendguin>  root (hdd,1)
[06:41] <defendguin>  kernel /vmlinuz-<IP_ADDRESS>-2-386 ro root=LABEL=/
[06:41] <defendguin> initrd /initrd.img-<IP_ADDRESS>-2-386
[06:42] <mxpxpod> I'm so glad I'm on ppc and don't have to worry about initrd stuff :D
[06:42] <peacemaker885> is it grub.conf or menu.lst
[06:42] <defendguin> but i get a parse error when i try to boot
[06:42] <defendguin> grub.conf
[06:42] <Kamion> mxpxpod: oh, you do, it's just that your yaboot.conf is like that already ...
[06:42] <mxpxpod> Kamion: hehe
[06:43] <Kamion> defendguin: can you really use root=LABEL=/ that way?
[06:43] <azeem> defendguin: the hdd in root might be bogus
[06:43] <Kamion> I'd be inclined to put the actual device name there
[06:43] <m_tthew> that LABEL stuff has always sketched me out
[06:43] <defendguin>  root /dev/hdd1  ?
[06:44] <Kamion> root=/dev/hdd1
[06:44] <mxpxpod> ok, when I choose a username in the second stage install, I'll choose "bryan" which is already on my /home partition and all files under that user's directory have ownership by bryan:users... is that alright?
[06:45] <Kosai> mxpxpod: They have ownership to that UID, not that username.
[06:45] <defendguin> well ill try this be back in a bit
[06:45] <Kamion> mxpxpod: if the username on the other partition maps to UID 1000, then it should just work (by luck)
[06:46] <mxpxpod> Kamion: how do I check that?
[06:46] <Kamion> mxpxpod: 'id bryan'
[06:46] <mxpxpod> Kamion: sweet... 1000
[06:47] <mxpxpod> Kamion: what group do user's files get set to?
[06:48] <Kamion> mxpxpod: the same, 1000
[06:48] <Kamion> mxpxpod: Ubuntu uses per-user groups
[06:48] <mxpxpod> Kamion: hmm...
[06:48] <mxpxpod> so I may have problems...
[06:49] <Kamion> mxpxpod: provided that your other home directory is chmodded g+s, you should be fine
[06:49] <mxpxpod> Kamion: "other" home directory?
[06:49] <Kamion> mxpxpod: sorry, your existing /home
[06:50] <Kamion> /home/bryan that is
[06:50] <Kamion> 'ls -ld /home/bryan'
[06:50] <mxpxpod> Kamion: and how do I check if it's g+s?
[06:50] <mxpxpod> drwxr-xr-x  162 bryan users 12288 2004-09-16 11:12 /home/bryan/
[06:50] <Kamion> mxpxpod: 'find /home/bryan -type d | xargs chmod g+s'
[06:51] <Kamion> that'll make it play nicely, but will still leave your existing installation working
[06:51] <clee> xargs is weak. you should use -exec chmod g+s \{\} \;
[06:51] <mxpxpod> Kamion: hmm
[06:51] <mxpxpod> clee: hehe
[06:51] <Kamion> clee: er, no, why?
[06:51] <mxpxpod> ok, what does g+s do?
[06:51] <clee> Kamion: because xargs won't work right if any of your directory names have spaces.
[06:51] <seb128> do we still have liveCD downloadable somewhere at this point ?
[06:51] <Kamion> clee: 'find /home/bryan -type d -print0 | xargs -0 chmod g+s', then
[06:51] <thom> find -print0 |xargs -0 then
[06:52] <clee> heh. cheaters. :)
[06:52] <jdub> seb128: only in matt's space, but not officially
[06:52] <Kamion> mxpxpod: setgid directories mean that new files created in that directory have the same group ownership as that of the directory itself, regardless of the user's primary group
[06:52] <jdub> seb128: those are old
[06:52] <maswan> Hmm.. You guys want cdimage mirrors too?
[06:52] <mxpxpod> Kamion: ah, ok
[06:52] <Kamion> maswan: yes please
[06:52] <mxpxpod> Kamion: what about my old files in those dirs?
[06:53] <neils> How do I get nvidia working?
[06:53] <Kamion> mxpxpod: they're fine, the point of the setgid bit on the directories is so that you can leave them that way
[06:53] <mxpxpod> Kamion: oh, ok
[06:53] <mxpxpod> Kamion: and this isn't insecure?
[06:53] <seb128> jdub: ok, people keep asking and I was not sure
[06:53] <seb128> thanks
[06:54] <maswan> Kamion: Hmm.. How large?
[06:54] <zack> i'm a little confused about something. ubuntu is based on debian, but it supports amd64. how does that work?
[06:54] <Kamion> mxpxpod: never heard of any problems with it ...
[06:54] <mxpxpod> Kamion: ok, just making sure
[06:54] <Kamion> zack: we're based on Debian's *source* packages; we rebuilt all of them for all our architectures
[06:55] <mxpxpod> Kamion: if my home dir is already there, will it overwrite my .bashrc when I create the new user?
[06:55] <thom> zack: we integrated the work done by the debian amd64 folk, and as Kamion says, we just rebuilt
[06:55] <Kamion> zack: everything that just worked on amd64 we didn't worry about, but we had to fix up a number of things
[06:55] <zack> Kamion: so you did your own porting?
[06:55] <zack> oh, i see
[06:55] <neils> If I change my sources to sid and do apt-get update/upgrade will I be running a standard sid system? Or is that not a good idea?
[06:55] <clee> zack: heh.
[06:55] <clee> zack: you grab the ISO from my workstation yet?
[06:55] <mxpxpod> Kamion: sorry I'm asking so many questions
[06:56] <Kamion> mxpxpod: if the home directory already exists, adduser leaves it alone
[06:56] <zack> so maybe one of you knows why debian still doesn't officially support the amd64 port?
[06:56] <mxpxpod> Kamion: awesome
[06:56] <zack> clee: yep
[06:56] <clee> zack: rock.
[06:56] <thom> neils: "standard sid" is an interesting concept, but sure.
[06:57] <neils> thom, thanks.
[06:57] <ggi> I'm getting this PNPBIOS error at the start, and it's like, bitchbitchbitch reboot with the "nobiospnp" option to operate stably bitchbitchbitch. I tried adding this to the kopt line of /boot/grub/menu.lst, and doing update-grub, but I still get the same error on reboot. Am I entering it in the wrong place?
[06:57] <clee> thom: can you do me a favor and smack daniels around a bit?
[06:57] <thom> zack: there are a number of infrastructure issues, plus amd64 really needs gcc3.4, so debian will need to plan and do the g++ abi transition at some point
[06:57] <neils> Like, I wanted chromium on here...and nvidia of course to show off...so that is my next step...but so far ubuntu looks nice.
[06:57] <thom> clee: well, i suspect you're closer to him than i am
[06:57] <clee> thom: ?
[06:57] <thom> but sure ;-)
[06:57] <clee> thom: is he in .us again?
[06:57] <thom> clee: i'm .uk
[06:58] <zack> thom: aha. that's more information than even the port team could tell me.
[06:58] <zack> clee: running the installer now
[06:58] <clee> thom: ah. well, I suspect you'll see him again sooner than I will.
[06:58] <clee> zack: w00t
[06:58] <thom> oh, quite possibly
[06:58] <thom> if you don't see him first, i'll be happy to :-)
[06:58] <thom> neils: nvidia drivers are in the restricted repository
[06:59] <thom> don't ask me how they work, i don't have any nvidia kit :-)
[06:59] <clee> heheheheh
[06:59] <neils> thom, do you know if kernel source is installed by default?  If so I can compile the nvidia drivers myself.
[06:59] <clee> the nvidia drivers have always worked fine for me...
[06:59] <thom> neils: they're compiled for you
[06:59] <neils> k
[06:59] <Kamion> bugger, I've confused gluck
[07:00] <daniels> at least it doesn't have hardware issues a la fooish
[07:00] <zack> nvidia's worked well for me too, just don't do anything fancy
[07:00] <neils> clee did you have to modify XF86Config-4 or is there an automated script like Kano has made for kanotix?
[07:00] <clee> daniels: :-/
[07:00] <clee> neils: no idea, I haven't got ubuntu on my nvidia systems
[07:00] <tseng> you have to change the driver line
[07:00] <tseng> to nvidia
[07:00] <tseng> from nv
[07:01] <neils> tseng ok...np
[07:01] <Kamion> 24747 pts/0    D      0:02 ./grub --batch --device-map=device.map
[07:01] <maswan> rsync://ftp.acc.umu.se/mirror/ubuntu/ <- rsync url for the main mirror at acc btw.
[07:01] <tseng> i tihnk just installing nvidia-glx will pull in the right packages
[07:01] <tseng> dont quote me
[07:01] <clee> jdub: wibbling?
[07:01] <zack> heh. i don't think ubuntu will install on this box.
[07:03] <thom> tseng: that looks right, yeah
[07:04] <neighborlee> hi all
[07:04] <neighborlee> problems ;(
[07:04] <will``> I'm having probems installing on vmware, where is the M so i might RTF thing ?
[07:04] <neighborlee> I installed ubuntu..fine mostly...but X wont start
[07:04] <neighborlee> ie: gdm < not found...same with startx
[07:04] <neighborlee>  ?
[07:04] <daniels> how so? what sort of video card do you have?
[07:05] <daniels> huh?
[07:05] <tseng> eh
[07:05] <daniels> did you install properly from the desktop iso?
[07:05] <daniels> i need to sleep
[07:05] <neighborlee> daniels: of course I did
[07:05] <neighborlee> no I used my cats toy
[07:05] <zack> well there goes help :)
[07:06] <neighborlee> great just in time lol
[07:06] <thom> neighborlee: did you get any errors during the install?
[07:06] <neighborlee> throm: only one that I can see
[07:06] <neighborlee> thom: it tried to access ext3 but I used reiserfs
[07:06] <neighborlee> wait ...one more
[07:06] <neighborlee> it also tried to 'update' at end
[07:06] <neighborlee> but gave error that it was unable to and started aptitude
[07:07] <neighborlee> thats it
[07:07] <will``> has anyone successfully installed ubuntu on VMware?
[07:07] <Tomcat_> I love Ubuntu so far... just installed it... but /dev/dsp doesn't work, while /dev/dsp1 does... any ideas?
[07:07] <will``> I'm having problems
[07:07] <will``> i want to properly try it out before installing it on my hard disk
[07:07] <maswan> {http,rsync}://ftp.acc.umu.se/mirror/ubuntu-cdimage/ when it's done
[07:08] <fabbione> will``: i doubt someone tested the installed in vmware
[07:08] <neighborlee> startx says X not found as well
[07:08] <neighborlee> err I mean command not found
[07:08] <neighborlee> thom: any ideas there ;(
[07:08] <thom> neighborlee: if you type 'sudo aptitude install ~tDesktop' what happens?
[07:08] <Kamion> sounds like you're lacking the xbase-clients package
[07:08] <will``> fabbione: so not much chance for help then? It fails during the installation of the base system
[07:09] <Kamion> neighborlee: that should be '~tubuntu-desktop' at the end of thom's command
[07:09] <neighborlee> tom: OK one se c
[07:09] <neighborlee> Kamion: ok
[07:09] <thom> Kamion: when did that change? heh :-)
[07:09] <DrPascal> is there a way to disable the floppy in a netboot? "floppy=???"
[07:09] <neils> ok brb restarting x
[07:09] <fabbione> will``: i am sorry.. i don't have a licence for vmware to test and hounestly i don't plan to buy one
[07:09] <neighborlee> hahah this bites..i'm talking to you via gaim in linspire
[07:09] <Kamion> thom: some time back ...
[07:09] <neighborlee> please someone RESCSUE me LFMAO
[07:10] <tseng> oh man..
[07:10] <Kamion> base-config (2.35ubuntu22) warty; urgency=low
[07:10] <Kamion>   * lib/menu/pkgsel: 'desktop' task renamed to 'ubuntu-desktop'.
[07:10] <Kamion>  -- Colin Watson<EMAIL_ADDRESS>Wed, 25 Aug 2004 19:24:11 +0100
[07:10] <will``> fabbione: ah, don't worry then :(
[07:10] <tseng> at least install fedora or something
[07:10] <neighborlee> LOL
[07:10] <zack> or debian sarge
[07:10] <neighborlee> well this is on my  other halfs puter..so no I can't LOL
[07:10] <neighborlee> and I dont think I want to.I dont trust FC frankly
[07:11] <zack> neighborlee: with what?
[07:11] <neighborlee> zack: ?
[07:11] <zack> neighborlee: you don't trust FC. why?
[07:11] <DrPascal> The PXE netboot is freezing during the floppy detection. Is there a way to disable this?
[07:11] <neighborlee> zack: with anything
[07:11] <neighborlee> zack: its beta quality IMO
[07:11] <Kosai> neighborlee: But you trust a day-old distribution released by a mostly nameless group of developers?  :)
[07:11] <santiago> how can I know what type of wireless card do I have?
[07:11] <clee> neighborlee: Debian's better? ;)
[07:11] <neighborlee> zack: errors...
[07:12] <neighborlee> clee: yes it is
[07:12] <santiago> it appears under Device Manager as unknown device
[07:12] <zack> neighborlee: ah. yum issues then?
[07:12] <neighborlee> dont get me wrong..FC is innovative in some ways;..I just wont trust it to my workstation
[07:12] <Kosai> santiago: It's PCMCIA?  `cardctl ident` works for me.
[07:12] <clee> it sucks less these days, don't get me wrong
[07:12] <clee> but it still sucks :)
[07:12] <neighborlee> exactly
[07:12] <zack> it will always suck
[07:12] <Kamion> "In death, a member of Project Mayhem has a name. His name is Robert Paulson."
  It uses the orinoco_cs driver and it's something like Prism blah blah
[07:14] <clee> thom: Sticking feathers up your but does not make you a chicken.
[07:14] <dredg> clee: thats ^W and is fixable
[07:14] <clee> dredg: please tell me how.
[07:14] <jdub> Kamion: fight club should be a sacred text of the project ;)
[07:14] <clee> dredg: and yes, I know it's ^W
[07:14] <zack> heh, gentoo dev :)
[07:14] <dredg> you have to tell gnome to use emacs style keybindings or somesuch
[07:15] <clee> dredg: ... where do I do that?
[07:15] <dredg> its gconf configurable
[07:15] <santiago> Kosai: it only says with that command "product info: "TOSHIBA", "Wireless LAN Card", "Version 01.01", ""
[07:15] <dredg> erm
[07:15] <dredg> cantr remember offhand :-/
[07:15] <neighborlee> zack: Do you trust fc to your workstations..
[07:15] <DrPascal> floppy=thinkpad ... that did it.
[07:15] <zack> neighborlee: i'm not gonna disagree. FC is a rough ride. RHEL is *much* nicer, but... yeah.
[07:15] <clee> meh, FC is nice when it works :)
[07:15] <neighborlee> clee: agreed
[07:15] <neighborlee> zack: true
[07:15] <zack> neighborlee: i'm in QA, so... i have different priorities :)
[07:16] <thom> neighborlee: any joy with that command?
[07:16] <clee> neighborlee: the graphical boot stuff is way better than the other things I've seen in other distros, thanks to using X instead of stupid framebuffer hacks
[07:16] <mxpxpod> Kamion: just so you know, I've got my users set up on debian to have their own group.. so I'm chown'ing all my files in my homedir
[07:16] <neighborlee> zack: ic
[07:16] <zack> it needs to be my workstation, so i can break it before you do
[07:16] <neighborlee> zack: but yeah overall Ifind FC innovation to ge a good thing for linux
[07:16] <zack> that said, at home i run debian and i'm almost a DD
[07:16] <mxpxpod> Kamion: the users group is left over from my gentoo install
[07:17] <neighborlee> zack: heheh gotcha
[07:17] <Kamion> mxpxpod: ok
[07:17] <neighborlee> zack: on both counts ;-)
[07:17] <zack> neighborlee: yeah. both FC and debian have their strengths and astoundingly foolish shortcomings
[07:17] <neighborlee> zack: heh indeed theydo
[07:17] <clee> that's why I run Slackware
[07:18] <zack>  /kick clee
[07:18] <dredg> clee: would you believe its a FAQ... http://www.xchat.org/faq/#q215
[07:18] <zack> ;)
[07:18] <clee> seriously, though, I end up switching between FC, Gentoo, Debian, and Slackware pretty frequently
[07:18] <clee> dredg: ha.
[07:18] <zack> you're just a distro whore ;)
[07:18] <thom> clee: ah, you're keen on the astoundingly foolish shortcomings then? ;-)
[07:18] <mxpxpod> did you guys hear that johnny ramone died?
[07:18] <tvon> Q: Does ^A work as 'select all' for folks in Firefox when in the address bar or form fields?
[07:19] <neighborlee> zack: well kinda what did it for me was that last (I think) corba error with an app...i'd 'up2date'd and bam got hit with a corba error...Iwas told to reboot toclear it which it seemed to..but i left me with a cold impression to be very uncertain to trust for a workstation ENV>.maybe I'm wrong but that was my take on  things..was I wrong do you think ...<<
[07:19] <mdz> morning
[07:19] <zack> tvon: nope
[07:19] <tvon> zack: Know the fix offhand? :)
[07:19] <neighborlee> clee: wow..I presume you have them running on separate partitions ? <G>
[07:19] <tvon> I thin its using emacs bindings or something
[07:19] <zack> tvon: file bug, wait? :\
[07:20] <tvon> heh
[07:20] <zack> neighborlee: is this rawhide?
[07:20] <clee> neighborlee: yeah.
[07:20] <clee> thom: I thought you backgrounded yourself? :)
[07:20] <zack> tvon: ah you're right. turn them off and it should work.
[07:20] <buk> Hey.
[07:21] <buk> Ubuntu is based on Debian and therefor uses apt?
[07:21] <tvon> zack: The emacs bindings? I'm trying to figure out where to turn them off
[07:21] <thom> clee: i have a highly latent background process ;-)
[07:21] <clee> thom: heheheh.
[07:21] <thom> buk: yes
[07:21] <buk> thom: thx
[07:21] <clee> thom: no, see, the problem is that all of the distros that I use have *different* fatal flaws.
[07:22] <clee> thom: Debian rocks except that a lot of the developers are assholes and there are all sorts of political issues that prevent things from happening in a timely manner. eg XFree86 and/or KDE packages.
[07:22] <Mayday> i have a small problem, i installed ubuntu, but i didnt install grub nor lilo since i already have debian/testing on the box, and the installer told me to append root=/dev/hda4 to the kernel line, i did, but it cant mount the root filesystem, do i need to append something about an initrd?
[07:22] <thom> clee: nod
[07:23] <clee> thom: Gentoo has that problem licked for the most part - the packages are all bleeding-edge and happy, except that I fucking hate waiting six hours for things to compile.
[07:23] <zack> clee: what? kde packages? explain.
[07:23] <neighborlee> Kamion: ok...Idid the command and got this: ..unable  to correct problems: you have held packages....
[07:23] <Mayday> the kernel loads just fine
[07:23] <zack> tvon: looking, i can't find it either... i was here before...
[07:23] <neighborlee> clee: I prefer to IAR instead of CAW
[07:23] <clee> thom: Fedora isn't that bad from an interface standpoint, and some of the tools are ok, except I *hate* RPM with a passion and the bloat really bothers me
[07:23] <neighborlee> clee: heh
[07:24] <clee> and that leaves me with Slackware, which is awesome because it doesn't fuck with me.
[07:24] <Tybstar> clee: you work at RH, right?
[07:24] <clee> Tybstar: Yep :)
[07:24] <whiprush> sweet. Ubuntu rocks with FreeNX.
[07:24] <dredg> fedora is just wrong. 560MB *minimal* install?
[07:24] <clee> dredg: people are working on it, or so I hear.
[07:24] <Tybstar> clee: then you've probably heard of Specifix and Conary, huh? :)
[07:24] <clee> Tybstar: yep :)
[07:24] <clee> Tybstar: Haven't tried their stuff out yet.
[07:24] <Tybstar> clee: you might like it, it's above and beyond RPM
[07:24] <clee> Tybstar: (actually, met up with those guys at OLS and had dinner with them. They're all really cool.)
[07:25] <zack> dredg: what's in the minimal that's so big, and why is ~600MB a problem?
[07:25] <clee> zack: 600M is ridiculous for a default install.
[07:25] <Tybstar> clee: ah, cool. yeah, i wish i could have been at OLS. i joined Specifix a bit too late, though. :)
[07:25] <clee> zack: And the idea that you need at least two CDs to install a base system is ludicrous.
[07:25] <clee> Tybstar: Oh, you work with them?
[07:25] <Tybstar> clee: yep
[07:25] <clee> Tybstar: nice.
[07:26] <clee> zack: last time I looked it was under 100M
[07:26] <clee> maybe it's up to 125 or so now.
[07:26] <Tybstar> clee: so i'm not really unbiased
[07:26] <clee> Tybstar: heheheheh.
[07:26] <neighborlee> thom: I did the command and got: you have held broken packages ;(
[07:26] <clee> anyway, so I bounce back to Slackware because it keeps working until I break it
[07:26] <clee> But it gets outdated pretty quickly and eventually new shiny things that I want to play with just don't work out of the box
[07:27] <zack> heh. outdated. don't they have xorg?
[07:27] <elmo_dc> Kamion: ?
[07:27] <neighborlee> clee: slack is okay minus nonexistant package management ..unless they are adopting swaret or slapt-get ?
[07:27] <clee> neighborlee: no idea.
[07:27] <Kamion> elmo_dc: yes?
[07:27] <clee> zack: heh. True. :)
[07:27] <clee> zack: although they only have Xorg 6.7, not 6.8
[07:27] <neighborlee> Kamion: did you have any idea for me ...I gotta do something one way or the other here sorry..;-)
[07:27] <elmo_dc> kamion: okay, so I added the relevant line to /b/g/device.map, reran "install grub on the hard disk" and "finish the installaion"
[07:27] <clee> but still, they're doing better than Debian. and ubuntu, for that matter. ;)
[07:27] <elmo_dc> kamion: but on boot I get
[07:28] <zack> clee: this install is 1GB with GNOME
[07:28] <elmo_dc> kamion: pivot_root: no such file or directory
[07:28] <Kamion> neighborlee: I'd try 'apt-get -f install' as a first instance
[07:28] <elmo_dc> kamion: /sbin/init: *mumble* couldn't open /dev/console
[07:28] <neighborlee> Kamion: yes I wondered..okay trying
[07:28] <clee> zack: That's not the point. That's not the *default* install. And it's definitely not the *minimum* install.
[07:29] <elmo_dc> kamion: any ideas?
[07:29] <zack> clee: ok. could have sworn it was default, but hey
[07:29] <clee> zack: what install are you talking about? an ubuntu install, or a debian one?
[07:29] <Kamion> elmo_dc: hm, you do have /dev/cciss/* device nodes don't you?
[07:29] <zack> clee: the one that worked (debian)
[07:29] <clee> zack: because last I checked, a 'default' debian install doesn't even include X, dude.
[07:29] <Kamion> elmo_dc: and what exactly did you add to /boot/grub/device.map?
[07:29] <dredg> theres a minimal option with fedora suggested for "routers" or "firewalls" but that clocks in at 1/2GB
[07:29] <neighborlee> Kamion: its saying nothing to do..0 upgraded, 0 newly installed and 0 to remove or upgraded :(
[07:29] <elmo_dc> kamion: blah, probably not
[07:30] <elmo_dc> kamion: (hd0) /dev/cciss/c0d0
[07:30] <zack> clee: *shrug* ok
[07:30] <dredg> i run a router with debian in under 64M
[07:30] <Kamion> elmo_dc: you might need entries for the partitions too
[07:30] <zack> so a fedora minimal install has X? that's crap.
[07:30] <clee> yep.
[07:30] <clee> zack: hence, the bitching, about the bloat. :)
[07:30] <zack> maybe someone should file a bug.
[07:30] <zack> it's not like it can't change
[07:30] <elmo_dc> kamion: never have in the past
[07:30] <dredg> though rpm does have some crazy option to not install docs
[07:31] <dredg> rpm --biddleybop or somesuch
[07:31] <dredg> or it reads an env variable. meh. i cant remember :)
[07:31] <neighborlee> zack:clee: well Idont think anyone would suggest that rh/fc is about being minimalistic ..its not their target audience BUT I suppose a minimal install is a good thing to have yes <wink>
[07:31] <Mayday> what is the command to restart the installation process after the first reboot?
[07:32] <elmo_dc> kamion: e.g. on *.d.o which are DL380's
[07:32] <elmo_dc> kamion: btw, there's a good test box - gluck or newraff
[07:32] <Kamion> elmo_dc: read your debian-admin mail ;)
[07:32] <Kamion> elmo_dc: I tried, grub hung in D state
[07:32] <santiago> which component should I use if my wireless card is not detected?
[07:32] <zack> neighborlee: well it should be an option, i agree
[07:33] <santiago> sorry, component in bugzilla
[07:33] <neighborlee> Mayday: startx should get you in that or sudo gdm ( assuming your not having same problems I did)
[07:34] <Kamion> elmo_dc: suggests to me that the initrd doesn't have the cciss modules
[07:34] <neighborlee> Kamion: again which apt package did you think I might be missing ???
[07:34] <elmo_dc> kamion: wah, dude don't say that
[07:34] <Mayday> neighborlee: i havent installed any packages except the once in the base install
[07:35] <Kamion> neighborlee: aptitude install ~tubuntu-desktop
[07:35] <neighborlee> Kamion: no not that...that one errors out saying noting to do and that I have broken held packages
[07:35] <neighborlee> Kamion: the X package you earlier seemed to think I lacked possiby
[07:36] <Kamion> neighborlee: run just 'aptitude' then and sort it out in the UI; ubuntu-desktop is in the Tasks section at the bottom
[07:36] <Kamion> neighborlee: xbase-clients, but that's all part of the desktop
[07:36] <ggi> What's with the foxless Firefox icon, just out of interest?
[07:36] <neighborlee> ok thx man
[07:36] <elmo_dc> kamion: how do I check?
[07:36] <Kamion> elmo_dc: mount the initrd -o loop from the d-i environment
[07:36] <elmo_dc> kamion: (sorry, I'm a monolithic no-modules initrd-averse freak)
[07:36] <Kamion> poke in /lib/modules
[07:36] <elmo_dc> k
[07:39] <Mithrandir> mdz: around?
[07:39] <neighborlee> are some of the mirrors down atm?..in aptitude > tasks > selected "you" for update and its 'staling'..?
[07:39] <Kamion> elmo_dc: looking at mkinitrd it should be fine, though ...
[07:39] <mxpxpod> ok, I'm going to go install ubuntu!
[07:39] <neighborlee> it did this last time I tried it as well I believe..maybe one of your servers indeed is down
[07:39] <mxpxpod> wish me luck :)
[07:39] <Kamion> neighborlee: archive.ubuntulinux.org is really slow at the moment, release effect
[07:40] <tvon> zack: just filed https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1294
[07:40] <neighborlee> maybe that explains my 'went south' install :-)
[07:40] <clee> mxpxpod: good luck :)
[07:40] <neighborlee> Kamion: ahhhh I did wonder yup
[07:40] <neighborlee> Kamion: ok thx man
[07:40] <Mithrandir> neighborlee: if you point your sources.list to one of our mirrors, it might go faster.
[07:40] <mdz> Mithrandir: yes
[07:40] <Qerub> srbaker: Did you find out how Canonical is going to make money? :)
[07:40] <Mithrandir> neighborlee: http://wiki.ubuntulinux.org/Archive
[07:41] <neighborlee> Mithrandir: ok thanks ;-00
[07:41] <Mithrandir> mdz: the OOO fix I did seemed to work; want an upload?
[07:41] <ficusplanet> Hey everyone.  I'm having trouble getting a DWL-520 Rev B (prism 2.5 chipset) working in Ubuntu with the wlan-ng drivers.  Anyone have any experience with this?
[07:41] <Mithrandir> (the mimelink name issue)
[07:41] <mdz> Mithrandir: not quite yet
[07:41] <Mithrandir> mdz: ok, tell me when, then.
[07:43] <Qerub> Have you considered including ndiswrapper?
[07:43] <m_tthew> ficusplanet: are you absolutely sure it's intersil? d-link changed the chipset on that model without changing the model number
[07:43] <jdub> Qerub: we may include it in restricted or universe some time
[07:43] <Kamion> elmo_dc: hm, you might also try fixing the bogus sed in /var/lib/dpkg/info/base-installer.postinst before base-installer runs; it's line 623, fix / to # and add a # on the end
[07:43] <ficusplanet> Revision B is apparrently prism 2.5, yeah.  Even according to the hal device manager.
[07:43] <Kamion> elmo_dc: dunno if that actually makes a difference though
[07:44] <elmo_dc> kamion: cciss.ko is in drivers/block in /lib/modules on the initrd
[07:44] <elmo_dc> kamion: when does base-installer run? :)
[07:44] <Qerub> jdub: i know a guy who maintains a ndiswrapper-source package. maybe you could sponsor him? :)
[07:44] <Mithrandir> Kamion: after the first reboot.
[07:44] <mjg59> ficusplanet: It /should/ just work with the Orinoco driver, shouldn't it?
[07:45] <Kamion> Mithrandir: hm?
[07:45] <ficusplanet> Well, the orinoco_pci drivers were loaded.  However, I don't have a device.
[07:45] <Kamion> elmo_dc: base-installer is the "Installing the Ubuntu base system" step
[07:45] <Kamion> elmo_dc: huh, bizarre, should be working then
[07:45] <Kamion> elmo_dc: look at /linuxrc and/or /sbin/init, see if they're loading it
[07:46] <Kamion> elmo_dc: (I hate initrd debugging too, only had to do it once or twice)
[07:46] <Mithrandir> Kamion: sorry, s/kamion/elmo/
[07:46] <Kamion> Mithrandir: you're thinking of base-config then
[07:46] <Mithrandir> yes, I am.
[07:46] <Mithrandir> sillly me
[07:46] <Kamion> elmo_dc: the time on powerpc when cp -a was failing was particularly special
[07:46] <elmo_dc> kamion: spwecial
[07:47] <Kamion> hey, that's a good word
[07:47] <robster> heh
[07:48] <neighborlee> grrrr how do I change 'purge'  to 'install' in aptitude ?LOL
[07:49] <Kamion> neighborlee: press +
[07:49] <neighborlee> and yes xbase-clents indeed is not installed....no doubt entire desktop isn't either
[07:49] <neighborlee> Kamion: OK thx
[07:50] <Kamion> you should be able to press + on the ubuntu-desktop line and it'll try everything
[07:50] <elmo_dc> kamion: is that base-installer typo there in preview?
[07:50] <Kamion> elmo_dc: yep
[07:50] <elmo_dc> ah
[07:50] <Kamion> elmo_dc: I fixed it ages ago in Debian but forgot about it
[07:50] <Kamion> elmo_dc: it's alleged to be a hack for woody so I hope it isn't actually a real problem
[07:51] <Kamion> 6 July, geez
[07:51] <Kamion> must've been just after we branched
[07:51] <elmo_dc> let's just resync everything with a .udeb.  what could possibly go wrong?
[07:52] <Kamion> elmo_dc: the changes in base-installer to install linux-image, for starters? :)
[07:53] <neighborlee> Mithrandir: is this server also having trouble ?.i'm getting errors from gzip during apt-get update
[07:53] <elmo_dc> kamion: you're such a pessimist dude
[07:53] <elmo_dc> ;-)
[07:55] <mdz> neighborlee: are you the same person who posted to the list with such a problem?
[07:55] <Kamion> elmo_dc: only other thing I can think of is that maybe it shows up as sd0 in 2.6 or something?
[07:55] <jdub> hrm
[07:55] <jdub> is archive.ubuntu totally hammered again?
[07:56] <npmccallum> jdub: apparently so, I can't get on either
[07:56] <jdub> d'oh ;)
[07:57] <elmo_dc> kamion: no definitely not
[07:58] <elmo_dc> kamion: tho I did just notice, devfs calls it /dev/cciss/host0/target0/disc0/part1 or something.. is the host0 part normal?
[07:58] <Kamion> elmo_dc: dunno about cciss in particular, think it's normal for disks in general though
[07:58] <fabbione> elmo_dc: yes it should be
[07:58] <Kamion> elmo_dc: what does 'mapdevfs /dev/cciss/host0/target0/disc0/part1' say?
[07:58] <fabbione> host0 = controller0
[07:59] <fabbione> so that you can map more than one
[07:59] <elmo_dc> KVM's need cut'n'paste
[07:59] <Kamion> should work, we have a new enough libdebian-installer
[07:59] <LoneTech> time to attempt an install on my laptop.
[07:59] <elmo_dc> kamion: the right thing
[07:59] <Kamion> ok
[08:00] <Kamion> damn, I need to be sitting in front of this box
[08:00] <Kamion> elmo_dc: dinner's approaching here, I'm going to be gone soon
[08:00] <Qerub> fetman: =)
[08:00] <fetman> Qerub: !!!
[08:00] <elmo_dc> I'm trying a reinstall now with that base-installer change
[08:01] <fetman> :D
[08:01] <elmo_dc> I'll also burn a preview just in case
[08:01] <neighborlee> mdz: not sure iyts
[08:01] <fetman> Qerub: e rikingen hr inne? :)
[08:01] <neighborlee> mdz: NOT SURE been a loooooooooooong day -)
[08:02] <LoneTech> hey neighborlee (:
[08:02] <neighborlee> mdz: but I dont think so no..this is a fresh install just this am
[08:02] <Qerub> fetman: Don't think so.
[08:02] <neighborlee> mdz: so very doubtful it was me
[08:02] <fetman> Qerub: :(
[08:02] <fetman> Qerub: jag som skulle be om pngar
[08:02] <neighborlee> mdz: b right b...please wait
[08:03] <Qerub> fetman: You can try to sell a guided tour in your garden.
[08:03] <fetman> Qerub: ehok
[08:03] <Qerub> fetman: Anyway, this is really OT and someone will bug us soon :)
[08:03] <fetman> Qerub: ot? of track?
[08:03] <Qerub> fetman: off topic
[08:03] <fetman> so?
[08:03] <fetman> :)
[08:04] <fetman> Qerub: dom har inte +t hr ;)
[08:04] <fetman> >;)
[08:04] <Kamion> :utf8 off
[08:04] <Kamion> d'oh, damn screen
[08:04] <kl_> tvon, fixed upstream in moz/ffox/thunderbird, http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=257405
[08:04] <tvon> kl_: ah, cool
[08:04] <elmo_dc> +w5n 2
[08:05] <Qerub> Kamion: If the community does a good work, will Ubuntu provide KDE as an alternative DE in the installation phase?
[08:06] <Kamion> Qerub: I'm not sure what'll happen w.r.t. installation for things like Kubuntu
[08:06] <Chriffer> Yeah you should throw out all the simplicity that makes it great
[08:06] <Chriffer> add in a few more editers in the default install too
[08:06] <Kamion> Qerub: I think the plan is more to have the KDE-interested guys ship a separate CD
[08:06] <Qerub> Kamion: Does something named Kubuntu exist or are you just making fun of me? :)
[08:06] <Chriffer> Though I guess 1 choice isnt bad
[08:07] <Qerub> Kamion: Sounds better, yes.
[08:07] <Kamion> Qerub: not yet, we named it a while back anyway ;)
[08:07] <kagou> hi
[08:07] <neighborlee> mdz: b
[08:07] <mdz> neighborlee: is it working better for you now?
[08:07] <neighborlee> mdz: nope
[08:07] <Qerub> Kamion: Is Kubuntu something Canonical staff will do? :)
[08:08] <neighborlee> mdz: as Isaid earlier..i'm getting gzip eror during apt-get update
[08:08] <Kamion> Qerub: unlikely; we'll be creating infrastructure for that sort of thing in general, but KDE support is expected to be community-provided
[08:08] <neighborlee> mdz: using the altenate mirror given by Mith*
[08:09] <mdz> neighborlee: oh
[08:09] <mdz> neighborlee: try using archive.ubuntu.com, then
[08:09] <Qerub> Kamion: Thanks, that's all I wanted to know.
[08:09] <neighborlee> mdz: yeahi'm going to have to revert there it would seem
[08:09] <Qerub> Kamion: Ubuntu's "snapshots" of Debian is pretty much what the Debian Desktop Distribution is doing/going to do.
[08:09] <tvon> One destkop is hard enough for a company to support (irt to kde support in the installer)
[08:10] <Kamion> elmo_dc: so, is CCISS an IDE thing?
[08:10] <Kamion> Qerub: sort of the same angle but a different approach
[08:10] <golgoth> plop
[08:10] <elmo_dc> kamion: neither, it's in own driver - you can compile a kernel without IDE or SCSI support and as long as you have CCISS, it'll boot and work
[08:10] <defendguin> i must say that i am very disappointed the the bootloader did not fin my other linux installs on this box
[08:11] <defendguin> and now i have no way to get to them
[08:11] <Qerub> Kamion: Hows is the approach different? Except the focus on some selected packages.
[08:11] <Kamion> defendguin: I'd like details of that in a bug report, it's supposed to
[08:12] <Kamion> defendguin: grub is flexible enough that you should be able to type in the details at its prompt and have it work, so it shouldn't be a disaster
[08:12] <Kamion> elmo_dc: I mean, is it on the IDE bus?
[08:12] <neighborlee> OK guys trying to 'startx' is giving me: usr/bin/X11/X..no such file or DIR
[08:12] <neighborlee> and I dont recall what package its part of
[08:12] <neighborlee> i'd think xfree86-common?
[08:13] <neighborlee> or base
[08:13] <defendguin> Kamion, well you see i have 3 hard drives on this box i tried to install this on the 3rd hard drive and when it asked for when it was to install the boot loader i told it the MBR which is on the master primary ide if i am correct
[08:13] <azeem> neighborlee: does dpkg --configure -a say anything?
[08:13] <mdz> neighborlee: I saw you were saying earlier that you were missing many packages; did you do a custom install or something?
[08:13] <Dr_Willis> neighborlee,  you just installed X?
[08:13] <Kamion> defendguin: what I need is (a) what the other operating systems are (b) what 'os-prober' says when you run it at the command prompt from alt-f2 in the installer
[08:13] <mdz> neighborlee: all of that is installed by default unless you choose a custom install
[08:14] <Kamion> defendguin: like I say, though, a bugzilla report will stop me forgetting about it, and I'm the guy who needs to fix it :)
[08:14] <azeem> mdz: or if the partition flows over, like in my case
[08:14] <neighborlee> Dr_Willis: I am totally lost at thispoint ..no idea whats installed to tell yu the truthLOL
[08:14] <Dr_Willis> neighborlee,  if you just installed X. you need to logout/backin to get your PATH set right
[08:14] <neighborlee> mdz: nope..I chose no custom anything except manual partition
[08:14] <tseng> jdub: ping
[08:14] <azeem> neighborlee: so how big is your partition?
[08:14] <elmo_dc> Kamion: don't know, sorry
[08:14] <neighborlee> azeem: 65 GB
[08:15] <azeem> okie then =)
[08:15] <neighborlee> Dr_Willis: ok ill try thgat
[08:15] <defendguin> well the other linux install is a fedora core 2 install and its on the primary master drive
[08:15] <sjoerd> hi, i've signed for receiving some nice pressed cd's :) But what architecture are they going to be (x86?)
[08:15] <Kamion> elmo_dc: probably not important
[08:15] <Kamion> sjoerd: i386
[08:15] <neighborlee> sudo reboot'ing LOL
[08:15] <neighborlee> wish < luck <G>
[08:15] <sjoerd> Kamion: is it possible to get some ppc ones too ?
[08:15] <defendguin> Kamion, id be happy to file a bugzilla report as soon as i have fixed my situation
[08:15] <Kamion> elmo_dc: I don't see anything too important in mkinitrd diffs
[08:16] <Kamion>   * Joey Hess
[08:16] <Kamion>     - It's actually allowed and common for /etc/lsb-release to not include a
[08:16] <Kamion>       DISTRIB_DESCRIPTION or DISTRIB_CODENAME, so don't call such distros
[08:16] <Kamion>       "Unknown semi-LSB-compliant Linux distribution", just skip to the next
[08:16] <Kamion>       test. This affected FC2.
[08:16] <magbb> Excuse me, I'm a bit of a newbe, to be honest. I like the distribution, but what I would want is proper multimedia support. How do I install support for DVD and Windows Media Audio? (Xine, mplayer, etc.)
[08:16] <Kamion> defendguin: that might be it

[08:17] <Qerub> magbb: A very unoffical answer: You could try using Marillat's Debian repository.
[08:17] <neighborlee> ok I am getting one ODD error at boottime..'can not find ext3 FS on hdb3'..hdb3 is where / is which is my 65GB partition for ubuntu..why is is looking for ext3 when I clearly formatted for reiserfs ? <GH>
[08:18] <neighborlee> also im geting 'yenta_socket' failing at boot...FYI...whatever the hell yenta is LOL!!!
[08:18] <jdub> tseng: pong
[08:18] <elmo_dc> kamion: base-installer fix didn't help
[08:18] <Chriffer> Does anyone else think a postscript reader stands out in such a streamlined menu system?
[08:18] <tseng> jdub: can i msg you for a minute or so?
[08:18] <jdub> Chriffer: yeah ;)
[08:18] <jdub> tseng: sure
[08:18] <rcaskey_> anyone here a kerberos whiz?
[08:18] <defendguin> Kamion, i am also a but upset that it did not detect my extra drive where i have all my music :(
[08:18] <jdub> Chriffer: one of the things we're thinking of doing is hiding all the 'document viewer' type menu icons
[08:19] <neighborlee> OK guys anyone feel free to jump onon this one LOL...just rebooted and I stil  get no such file orDIR on /usr/bin/X11/X :(
[08:19] <Qerub> neighborlee: yenta is some cardbus (or pcmcia?) stuff
[08:20] <Chriffer> yes yenta is a cardbus related
[08:20] <ficusplanet> Does anyone know how I can change the GTK sorting order from A, B, C, a, b, c to A a, B b, C c/
[08:20] <ficusplanet> ?
[08:20] <Qerub> ficusplanet: I think your locale affects that.
[08:20] <ficusplanet> Oh, OK.
[08:21] <neighborlee> Qerub: oh no wonder then.I dont have a laptop here  <G>
[08:22] <Chriffer> Is there supposed to be a way to remove servers from the nautilus "Network" section? I added a few that don't work when trying to get samba working, but I can't find anything that appears to remove them
[08:22] <Qerub> ficusplanet: I'm not sure of what part of your locale that decides sorting though. It could be LC_CTYPE...
[08:22] <jdub> Chriffer: known bug
[08:22] <Qerub> neighborlee: It might be cardmgr or something loading it.
[08:22] <kl_> hm, LC_COLLATE ?
[08:23] <ficusplanet> Qerub: Thanks.
[08:23] <Qerub> ficusplanet: Yes, LC_COLLATE as kl_ said.
[08:23] <whiprush> whoever decided to not use Xprint for firefox, you have my thanks.
[08:24] <neighborlee> Qerub: yeah no prb..at this point its theleast of my worries <G>
[08:24] <Qerub> ficusplanet: I'm not using Ubuntu but adding LC_COLLATE=something to /etc/environment will probably do the trick.
[08:25] <magbb> Has there yet come any updates to the Ubuntu distribution?
[08:25] <neighborlee> OK anyone..still after running aptitude and selecting the desktop > xbase-clients > 'g'..it demands the ubuntu cd which i insert in cdrom drive..it says setting up X..but 'startx' still says no such file or dir from : /usr/bin/X11/X ;(sigh..any idea what next ???
[08:25] <LoneTech> neighborlee: you'd want an X server for that.
[08:25] <Qerub> neighborlee: xserver-xfree86?
[08:26] <neighborlee> LoneTech: yes but doesn't it do that automagic due to dependency checks ?
[08:26] <LoneTech> nope
[08:26] <neighborlee> hmm I thought for sure it said it did
[08:26] <neighborlee> sigh
[08:26] <LoneTech> not fonts either, so make sure you get at least xfonts-base.
[08:26] <Tomcat_> Now any ideas about /dev/dsp not working while /dev/dsp1 is?
[08:26] <neighborlee> ok ill try the xserver
[08:26] <neighborlee> LoneTech: ok
[08:26] <Qerub> neighborlee: Since you might want to show the apps on a remote xserver :)
[08:26] <Tomcat_> I'm trying to figure it out at the moment, but I have no idea what creates /dev/dsp
[08:26] <LoneTech> it's possible to run an X server with fonts and clients over network, etc, so there aren't much in the way of dependencies.
[08:27] <mdz> Kamion: have you seen Subject: Re: install instructions on the -users list?
[08:28] <mdz> Kamion: if you can review the text and make any necessary corrections, lu can integrate it
[08:29] <j^> just installed ubuntu on an asus p800 delux, and the network card looked ok during the installer, but after rebooting its gone.
[08:29] <schweeb> okay, quick question... shouldn't X be trying to touch char-major-195 when it's loading to load the nvidia driver?  I can't get the nvidia driver to autoload using a depmod alias
[08:29] <kagou> which scripts launch pmount ?
[08:29] <j^> its a 3Com 3c940
[08:29] <bryan_> ok, so I just installed ubuntu, but there's a broken dependency
[08:29] <pitti> mdz: Hi! Can you please approve #1276? Or do you want to put gnutls11 in Supported in the next time? Then I can build lynx against gnutls11 right away
[08:29] <elmo_dc> kamion: any other ideas, anything useful I can do? if it's going to be hard to debug remotely, I'll need to use some non-warty media - but I can leave one unused if you need something to test with?
[08:29] <j^> whats next?
[08:30] <mxpxpod> gnome-themes depends on gtk2-engines-smooth, which doesn't have an install candidate
[08:30] <mdz> mxpxpod: looking into it now
[08:30] <mxpxpod> mdz: thanks
[08:31] <j^> a and the matrox G650 dual did not work automaticly. i had to edit /etc/X11/XF86Config back to vesa since mga seames to be the wrong choise
[08:31] <mxpxpod> other than that, my install went off w/o a hitch :)
[08:31] <jdub> worked okay with i386
[08:31] <mdz> j^: is your NIC a PCI card?
[08:31] <Chriffer> I'm gonna go and play with the installer again
[08:31] <jdub> might not be built on ppc yet
[08:31] <tubamann> Wow, that's alot of users
[08:31] <tubamann> :)
[08:31] <Chriffer> It's so neat to play with
[08:31] <mdz> kagou: gnome-volume-manager
[08:32] <j^> mdz no its onboard on the asus P800 delux
[08:32] <kagou> thanks mdz
[08:32] <seb128> mxpxpod: what version of gtk2-engines-* do you have ?
[08:32] <elmo_dc> jdub: britney reckons it's broken for everyone
[08:33] <jdub> britney is a blonde
[08:33] <maswan> Hmm.. Just how big is the cdimage part?
[08:33] <elmo_dc> jdub: that may  be, but she's right
[08:33] <mdz> lamont: ping?
[08:34] <mxpxpod> seb128: 2.8.0-ubuntu2
[08:34] <mdz> j^: can you run lspci and see if it shows up?
[08:34] <spiv> 'apt-cache show gtk2-engines-smooth' here suggests that it's in universe...
[08:34] <mdz> seb128: just filed #1296
[08:34] <mxpxpod> seb128: sorry... -0ubuntu2
[08:34] <XTaran> Hi.
[08:34] <elmo_dc> jdub/seb128: gtk2-engines-smooth is in universe
[08:34] <j^> mdz it shows up as 3c940 10/100/1000Base-T
[08:34] <mdz> elmo_dc: it needs to be moved into main
[08:34] <elmo_dc> mdz: you think?
[08:34] <mxpxpod> what's the difference between main and universe?
[08:34] <seb128> elmo_dc: it's a depend of a warty package, should be in warty, right ?
[08:34] <jdub> elmo_dc: ahr
[08:35] <mdz> seb128: that does not happen automatically
[08:35] <neighborlee> OK almost there LOL..one problem remains:: i can verybriefly see the gnome 2.8 logo start..for a split second..thenit errors out to console sAying: could not init font path element unix:/7100, removing from list!...what am I  lacking now ? ;-))
[08:35] <seb128> mdz: ok, that's the problem
[08:35] <mdz> elmo_dc: are you fixing it?
[08:36] <LoneTech> neighborlee: that shouldn't be the error, that's just that you're not using a font server. other font path entries should work. check your .xsession-errors or something..
[08:37] <defendguin> i have a second hard drive where i have stored all of my music is there an easy way to get that added to my fstab?
[08:37] <elmo_dc> MDZ: YES
[08:37] <bmsleight> Hello All
[08:37] <bmsleight> alextreme: Might have known you to be here :)
[08:37] <j^> mdz http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/history/69418
[08:38] <neighborlee> LoneTech: do you recall what DIR its in ?..its not here in /etc/X11 and Iflat dont recall damn
[08:38] <j^> mdz another thread about the p800/3940 http://www.ussg.iu.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/0306.2/1556.html
[08:39] <LoneTech> neighborlee: home dir
[08:39] <mdz> elmo_dc: thank you
[08:39] <bmsleight> A couple of quick question on ubuntu. I may be being a bit simple but I could not find the LiveCD version of ubuntu. The documentation refers to it but I can find the iso.
[08:39] <mdz> j^: can you file a bug in bugzilla?
[08:39] <mxpxpod> mdz: how long will it take to fix the smooth dep bug?
[08:39] <LoneTech> first install attempt: apparently there's no rdev set on network install kernel. attempting with root=/dev/ram
[08:39] <elmo_dc> fixed
[08:40] <mdz> mxpxpod: -5 seconds
[08:40] <LoneTech> curious, no init found.
[08:40] <mxpxpod> mdz: cool!
[08:40] <bmsleight> This is a dead linke - http://ftp.no-name-yet.com/cdimage/morphix/20040910/wartylive-v2.iso
[08:41] <mdz> bmsleight: on which page is that link?
[08:41] <mdz> bmsleight: the live CD is currently at http://people.no-name-yet.com/~mdz/ubuntu-live/
[08:41] <mxpxpod> hehe, 3m2s left on my ubuntu install download :)
[08:41] <mdz> bmsleight: however, it has some known bugs
[08:41] <neighborlee> sigh...did I miss a install option to provide a working gnome desktop during intsall ? :(
[08:41] <clee> mxpxpod: :)
[08:41] <mxpxpod> it's nice to have a multiple T3 connection
[08:41] <clee> mxpxpod: heheheheh
[08:42] <clee> mxpxpod: using the torrent?
[08:42] <mdz> neighborlee: the default is to provide a working gnome desktop
[08:42] <defendguin> neighborlee, LMFAO
[08:42] <neighborlee> mdz: well its borked then ;(
[08:42] <j^> mdz not that the bugzilla site would come up if i search for bugzilla or bug on the website
[08:42] <mdz> neighborlee: how big is the partition on which you installed?
[08:42] <neighborlee> mdz: 65GB
[08:42] <mdz> j^: http://bugzilla.ubuntulinux.org/
[08:42] <mxpxpod> clee: no no... I have ubuntu installed... I'm just waiting on all the packages for ubuntu-desktop
[08:42] <XTaran> Hmmm, I read morphix in that URL. What has Ubuntu to do with morphix? *beingcurious*
[08:42] <LoneTech> that initrd is 11MB large, kernel configured for 8MB or something. I think a ramsize option is needed.
[08:42] <clee> mxpxpod: oh, ok
[08:42] <clee> mxpxpod: wow, that was fast
[08:42] <mdz> neighborlee: email a copy of /var/log/base-config.log to the ubuntu-users mailing list
[08:42] <bmsleight> mdz: Thanks.
[08:42] <jdub> XTaran: our live cd is morphix based, and alex works with us :)
[08:42] <neighborlee> mdz: unless I missed something and it tried to install to  a smaller one dunno..shrug
[08:42] <mdz> neighborlee: it sounds like something went wrong; better to find out what that was than to try to patch it up by hand
[08:43] <neighborlee> mdz: sorr but im not familiar much with non-X emailing..how do I do this?
[08:44] <whiprush> cool cool, mono packages for warty.
[08:44] <jdub> with muine! :)
[08:44] <XTaran> jdub: ic, thx.
[08:44] <defendguin> :((
[08:44] <jdub> tseng: radness :)
[08:44] <whiprush> tseng: you rock
[08:45] <mxpxpod> clee: yeah, it's going at 319kB/s
[08:45] <jdub> hmm
[08:45] <clee> mxpxpod: right on.
[08:45] <defendguin> i was expecting to see my other hard drives in "Computer"
[08:45] <LoneTech> I got the installer started. module warnings though, that's concerning.
[08:45] <clee> mxpxpod: my cable internet at home gets faster than that, but it's still nice :)
[08:45] <bmsleight> Another question if you don't mind. I want to add ubuntu along side my existing debian. I tried that installer, but I am unable to skip the partitioning section and install base ubuntu. Any idea how I can use the installer but not the partitioner (I have a spare partition already)
[08:45] <neighborlee> i hear c# is easier coding path but  gosh its hardly a standard and so much of what I do ( project libs) depend on c++....unless mono can on the fly convert it all over...but do we really know that c# will always remain OS ?..isn't that a slight uncetainty or not...
[08:46] <XTaran> Anyone speaking German here?
[08:46] <mxpxpod> clee: I downloaded a 650 MB about a week ago and it took like 4 minutes (IIRC)
[08:46] <clee> mxpxpod: heh :)
[08:46] <clee> mxpxpod: how long did the iso take, using bittorrent?
[08:46] <mxpxpod> clee: there are a bunch of virii going around the office right now, so that doesn't help my speeds :)
[08:46] <mxpxpod> clee: can't remember
[08:46] <clee> mxpxpod: heh, fair enough
[08:46] <m_tthew> clee: I was seeing > 300KBs on the iso torrent yesterday
[08:47] <clee> m_tthew: I was seeing 400+ on it myself
[08:47] <mxpxpod> ok, what's laptop-detect?
[08:47] <clee> m_tthew: which is insane since the connection at redhat has never cracked 300 for me before
[08:47] <defendguin> crap the device manager crashed
[08:47] <fabbione> mxpxpod: a little script that should detect if you are running on a laptop or not
[08:47] <mxpxpod> fabbione: that's it?
[08:47] <fabbione> mxpxpod: yes.
[08:47] <maswan> clee: I've seen the debian one do about 1.5-2MB/s myself
[08:47] <clee> maswan: neat.
[08:48] <fabbione> it is used in several bits to configure properly certain packages
[08:48] <mxpxpod> fabbione: ah, ok
[08:48] <fabbione> mxpxpod: like enabling antialiasing in fonts
[08:48] <LoneTech> er, perhaps the install should mention what protocol it expects to talk to the mirror by? I was planning on NFS, but this installer just doesn't say..
[08:48] <fabbione> mxpxpod: it saves a few questions to the user at install time
[08:48] <kl_> XTaran, i do
[08:49] <mxpxpod> ok, why does ubuntu use pbbuttonsd as the default rather than pmud?
[08:49] <LoneTech> http, proceeding.
[08:50] <XTaran> kl_: Some more publicity for Ubuntu in German: http://www.symlink.ch/article.pl?sid=04/09/16/1539251
[08:51] <kl_> =]  should show up in my rss in 10 minutes
[08:51] <kl_> rss reader*
[08:51] <LoneTech> does ubuntu require LVM?
[08:51] <XTaran> kl_: gleom.de also wrote something: http://www.golem.de/0409/33601.html
[08:51] <fabbione> LoneTech: no. Ubuntu supports install on LVM
[08:51] <kl_> XTaran, yeah, i read golem's feed too ;)
[08:51] <mxpxpod> jdub: can you answer that? why pbbuttonsd instead of pmud?
[08:52] <LoneTech> I think I've wound up with a kernel that doesn't support IDE hard drives.
[08:53] <XTaran> kl_: :)
[08:53] <LoneTech> straight from the warty iso, install/netboot
[08:53] <fabbione> LoneTech: that sounds pretty strange
[08:54] <fabbione> LoneTech: which motherboard are you using? are they SATA disks?
[08:54] <XTaran> Is it already countable, how the /. posting pushed the user base?
[08:54] <LoneTech> MediaGXm CPU, CS5530 support chip. that's plain IDE on PCI, Cyrix 5530 driver helps.
[08:55] <LoneTech> drive is a 2.5" ATA
[08:55] <jdub> mxpxpod: pmud is not really a living project
[08:55] <jdub> mxpxpod: so we chose to ship pbbuttonsd
[08:55] <jdub> easier to support and so on
[08:55] <fabbione> LoneTech: hmmmmm
[08:55] <mxpxpod> jdub: ok, that's cool
[08:55] <mxpxpod> jdub: as long as it comes with sane defaults
[08:56] <mxpxpod> jdub: my experience with it sucks (but I was using it on gentoo... so go figure)
[08:56] <LoneTech> dmesg doesn't mention IDE at all
[08:56] <j^> mdz https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1297
[08:57] <nictuku> congrats for ubuntu!
[08:57] <jdub> mxpxpod: we sanified them a bit
[08:57] <mxpxpod> jdub: good
[08:57] <fabbione> LoneTech: i wonder if that chipset is supported.. i will have to check on that
[08:57] <mxpxpod> what about mono on ppc?
[08:58] <LoneTech> I've installed with and without 5530 support before. most recently the machine ran gentoo with a <IP_ADDRESS> kernel.
[08:58] <LoneTech> <IP_ADDRESS> does have the 5530 support as an option, but it worked to install long before that was listed
[08:59] <nictuku> does ubuntu ships with postfix?
[08:59] <fabbione> LoneTech: please file a bug and assign it to debian-installer
[08:59] <jdub> nictuku: by default!
[08:59] <fabbione> LoneTech: we will figure it out with the kernel guys :-)
[08:59] <XTaran> jdub: Fine!
[09:00] <XTaran> jdub: It sounds better from hour to hour. ;-)
[09:00] <jdub> heh
[09:00] <fabbione> LoneTech: if you can please add info from lspci -v (if you happen to have the old linux installation there
[09:00] <LoneTech> okay, will do.
[09:00] <nictuku> In your site, you say it's only one cd, and thousands others online. Those are, I suppose, Debian official ones, right? So will you guys provide security updates to only the Ubuntu packages...
[09:01] <j^> do external dvd burners (firewire) work with <IP_ADDRESS>? they did have some problems with the new scsi/burner stuff added in  2.6.8 and cdrecord in debian
[09:01] <jdub> nictuku: no, those are from our repositories too
[09:01] <aethyr> hm, gthumb doesn't detect my digital camera
[09:01] <nictuku> So, from what Debian distro will those "extra" packages come?
[09:01] <LoneTech> is it documented that a netboot install requires "ramdisk_size=16384 root=/dev/ram", btw? I guess less than 16 works, but the default doesn't.
[09:01] <jdub> nictuku: but we only do support for our 'main' ones, not our 'universe' ones
[09:01] <nictuku> hmm nice. And with updates assured for 18 months from the date of release, to all software?
[09:01] <jdub> aethyr: usb-storage?
[09:01] <nictuku> ah ok!
[09:01] <whiprush> aethyr: is it a usb storage cam?
[09:02] <aethyr> haha, nevermind
[09:02] <aethyr> it wasn't plugged into my computer
[09:02] <mxpxpod> lol
[09:02] <aethyr> well, I only have 2 usb ports
[09:02] <aethyr> so I have to switch sometimes
[09:02] <aethyr> I thought I had my camera still plugged in
[09:04] <aethyr> ok, now it's giving me a real error
[09:04] <aethyr> An error occurred in the io-library ('Could not claim the USB device'): Could not claim interface 0 (Operation not permitted). Make sure no other program or kernel module (e.g. dc2xx or stv680) is using the device and you have read/write access to the device.
[09:04] <mdz> j^: thanks
[09:04] <aethyr> on the plus side, gthumb ran automatically when I plugged it in
[09:04] <mdz> j^: this is an i386 system?
[09:05] <mxpxpod> ok, why is apmd running on a ppc system?
[09:05] <mxpxpod> s/running/installed/
[09:05] <nictuku> will you guys establish business partnerships for other Ind. Support Vendors, specially in other countries?
[09:05] <LoneTech> there is apm emulation among the power management drivers.. but apmd shouldn't be needed.
[09:06] <neighborlee> where is .xsession-errors
[09:06] <aethyr> what's weirder, is that if I go through nautilus, I acn see all the pictures on my camera...
[09:06] <LoneTech> neighborlee: ordinarily, in your home directory.
[09:06] <schweeb> okay guys, I have a feature suggestion/request... since ubuntu uses udev, X can't autoload the nvidia driver when it hits char-major-195, so, when setting up the nvidia drivers, one of 2 things must happen: a script must create the nvidia dev nodes, or the module must be loaded with /etc/modules
[09:06] <mxpxpod> LoneTech: that's what I thought... I'll have to uninstall it
[09:06] <neighborlee> nm
[09:06] <schweeb> the nvidia drivers don't properly support sysfs supposedly, so udev can't make the nodes for you
[09:07] <neighborlee> LoneTech: yeah indeed nm..I found it..I didn't think it was in $HOME but I checked thinking itmight be and voila LOL
[09:07] <neighborlee> sigh
[09:08] <tritium> schweeb, isn't there a hotplug setting in /etc/default/hotplug for PCI_CLASS_DISPLAY?
[09:08] <schweeb> tritium: hrm, didn't check there... lemme look...
[09:08] <schweeb> ah yes
[09:08] <suburbanite_fury> Will it be possible to perpetually upgrade Ubuntu releases, just like one can upgrade Debian 3.0 to 3.1?
[09:09] <schweeb> IGNORE_PCI_CLASS_DISPLAY=true
[09:09] <LoneTech> er, right.. gentoo's lspci, for some reason, doesn't look up names. not even for classes. that's not too helpful..
[09:09] <tritium> schweeb, mine is set to false
[09:09] <neighborlee> LoneTech: ok it says no fonts found ...?
[09:09] <schweeb> tritium: did you set it that way manually?
[09:09] <tritium> yes
[09:09] <LoneTech> neighborlee: well, you want xfonts-base and probably {75,100}dpi and scalable and perhaps a few more.
[09:09] <schweeb> shouldn't have to do that IMO
[09:11] <neighborlee> LoneTech: alldone except for scalable fonts
[09:11] <tritium> schweeb, that was for a sid box, not ubuntu
[09:11] <neighborlee> LoneTech: I saw that but didn't install it thinkin xbase-fonts was eougfh
[09:11] <schweeb> oh good, a dpkg-reconfigure hotplug will set it
[09:12] <tritium> oh yeah
[09:12] <schweeb> needs to go in the FAQ then
[09:12] <LoneTech> neighborlee: dunno what gnome expects, tho.
[09:12] <neighborlee> LoneTech: did I miss something during install..so the install doesn't assume gnome and its components to be installed and ready for startx ? :(
[09:12] <LoneTech> ah, got gentoo lspci to show names.
[09:12] <j^> oh and the keyboard was not set to german keyboard, i selected english interface/german keyboard. now my pwd did not work after switching it in the gnome keyboard prefs :/
[09:12] <whiprush> has someone mentioned interest in a ubuntu web forum?
[09:12] <LoneTech> neighborlee: I have no idea.
[09:13] <schweeb> whiprush: they were discussing it a bit last night
[09:13] <sneef> ?
[09:14] <mxpxpod> umm, when do I configure X?
[09:15] <nictuku> I propose the creation of a ubuntu-isp or ubuntu-servers to the non-desktop users.
[09:15] <nictuku> s/proposesuggest/
[09:15] <nictuku> argh
[09:16] <XTaran> One more question: For which hardware platforms is Ubuntu? Just x86? Haven't found any note on the FAQ, neither on the website no in the wiki.
[09:16] <spiv> mxpxpod: You don't, usually, it autodetects.
[09:16] <matthewjs> when i boot up, i get a arror about the bois telling me to set noboispnp, where do i set this?
[09:16] <suburbanite_fury> XTaran: x86, amd64, ppc
[09:16] <neighborlee> does anyone know then..does the ubuntu install supposed to prompt for a full working gnome desktop??..just wondering cause plopping me down to a console ...startx should have just 'worked'....???
[09:16] <XTaran> suburbanite_fury: Thx.
[09:16] <XTaran> suburbanite_fury: Although I hoped for Sparc32. :)
[09:17] <spiv> neighborlee: It should've setup gdm by default, in fact.
[09:17] <suburbanite_fury> Will it be possible to perpetually upgrade Ubuntu releases, just like one can upgrade Debian 3.0 to 3.1?
[09:17] <XTaran> suburbanite_fury: Although GNOME is probably no good idea with my 48 MR RAM Sparc 4. :)
[09:17] <nictuku> suburanite, I would like to know that too.
[09:17] <man0_> hi
[09:17] <XTaran> AOL. ;-)
[09:17] <LoneTech> suburbanite_fury: surely possible, but I wonder if it'll be obvious in the interface. it isn't in xandros.
[09:18] <whiprush> wow, the amount of people in here has like, quadrupled.
[09:18] <man0_> is ubuntu stable on ppc?
[09:18] <suburbanite_fury> LoneTech: The reason I ask is because in Fedora it's basically not supported to upgrade with apt/yum; they recommend a complete reinstall.
[09:19] <LoneTech> suburbanite_fury: yeah, but that isn't debian based. it has basically no concept of upgrading configurations.
[09:19] <sabdfl> suburbanite_fury: yes, we'll support constant upgrades from version to version
[09:19] <LoneTech> fabbione: I'm not getting the bugzilla account mail, apparently. I have the lspci and dmesg outputs from my working <IP_ADDRESS>/gentoo if you want those.
[09:19] <suburbanite_fury> sabdfl: Thanks -- very cool.
[09:20] <neighborlee> spiv: odd..did your install do it okay then?
[09:20] <sabdfl> suburbanite_fury: also, we can open up a port to another architecture if we have a core team that will take responsibility for keeping it up to date and secure post-release
[09:20] <sabdfl> man0_: yes
[09:20] <neighborlee> okay im geting a bit further..installing scallable fongts at least got me into X but it complained about xscreensaver so i'm installng that now
[09:21] <sabdfl> neighborlee: is someone helping you?
[09:21] <man0_> sabdfl, cause i fond nothing about the ppc port
[09:21] <man0_> fond/found
[09:21] <spiv> neighborlee: Yep, no brainer.  Did your install give any errors or something?  It sounds like it didn't install all the packages or something odd.
[09:21] <sabdfl> man0_: the cd's are on the mirrors
[09:21] <sabdfl> quite a few of the teams have ibooks and powerbooks
[09:21] <sabdfl> so it works well on ppc
[09:21] <michelin> hi guys
[09:21] <ish> Can I view a list of packages online?  And is there an ftp install option?
[09:21] <spiv> neighborlee: Fonts and xscreensaver and so forth should all be pulled in by installing the "ubuntu-desktop" task.
[09:22] <michelin> installing Ubuntu x86 right now.. sweet
[09:22] <michelin> ish, on the mirror there's a file for each distro that has the package list
[09:22] <sabdfl> ish: single cd install, after that use aptitude or synaptic
[09:22] <elmo_dc> kamion: okay, got a bit further, I think the problem is in 2.6, it's /dev/cciss/host0/target0 not /dev/cciss/c0d0 - at least that's what the kernel is talking about on boot, if I remove 'quiet'
[09:22] <neighborlee> spiv: yes near end it errored out but i'm not sure if it couldn;t read from the servers because they were 'busy
[09:22] <npmccallum> ish: basically every package from debian, some are supported (bugfixes, security, etc), others are not
[09:22] <elmo_dc> neighborlee: were you one of the ones having problems with te ubuntu-desktop task?  if so, try again, the problem package has been fixed
[09:22] <ish> sabdfl: I assume apt-get as well?
[09:22] <elmo_dc> ish: sure
[09:22] <michelin> ehm people, I tried to reuse my /home and the installer kept saying there's an error with it and won't continue
[09:22] <sabdfl> ish: yes of course :-)
[09:22] <neighborlee> spic: or if my cd was bad..even thoughI doubt that since it was a BT dowload
[09:23] <ish> Just looking for fvwm :)
[09:23] <neighborlee> spic: I should prob. try again :(...
[09:23] <michelin> I checked on vt4 and it said ext3 mounted successfully in ordered mode
[09:23] <neighborlee> spiv: although atm i'm further but its like nursing a baby back to health LOL
[09:23] <spiv> neighborlee: Just try installing ubuntu-desktop again.
[09:23] <michelin> I just chose not to use it at install time.. weird though. any idea why?
[09:23] <neighborlee> spiv: ok
[09:23] <ish> I think ubuntu is what I've been waiting for.
[09:23] <LoneTech> BT only ensures that the transfer was okay, not that the original file worked.
[09:23] <m_tthew> ish: you and me both
[09:24] <neighborlee> spiv: my destkop is up but it stopped after displaing the 'second icon' on bottom of gnome 2.8 logo....all I have now is a blank light blue screen
[09:24] <neighborlee> spiv: can you give me please once more that command..I lost it when I left channel earlier
[09:24] <spiv> neighborlee: I'm not sure what command you're referring to...
[09:25] <neighborlee> spiv: oh ok...well..how do I do it from aptitude then..
[09:25] <j^> mdz it works with the sk98lin kernel module
[09:25] <spiv> neighborlee: Look under "tasks" in aptitude.
[09:26] <neighborlee> nm I got it
[09:26] <neighborlee> here goes
[09:26] <neighborlee> yeah I could reinstall but the linux leet'er in me wants to 'fix' it LOL!!!!
[09:27] <neighborlee> or should I say the handiman in me wants to 'fix it' <G>
[09:28] <lypanov> re
[09:28] <lypanov> clee: machine ordered. recieve on monday :)
[09:28] <rcaskey_> The sysadmin in me says, if it don't work, ghost it
[09:28] <neighborlee> question ...its downloading all of this instead of getting it from the CD...how do I tell aptitude to get from cd instead ? lol
[09:29] <clee> lypanov: nice
[09:29] <m_tthew> neighborlee: my default apt.sources that ubuntu installed has the cdrom source in it already
[09:29] <jsubl2> anyone gotten mplayer and mozilla to work
[09:29] <neighborlee> m_tthew: mine does too
[09:29] <m_tthew> jsubl2: I compiled mplayer by hand it worked fine
[09:30] <neighborlee> m_tthew: hm maybe its a flag I messed up in aptitude
[09:30] <jsubl2> i will try that
[09:30] <m_tthew> neighborless: then I suspect it will grab what it can from the CD
[09:30] <neighborlee> m_tthew: possibly...maybe the cd only has a base system then..
[09:30] <m_tthew> jsubl2: I installed build-essential, then ./configured mplayer with prefix=/usr/local/mplayer; everything compiled and installed without issue, works great
[09:30] <neighborlee> m_tthew: seems unlikely though as it was almost 600MB
[09:31] <jsubl2> m_tthew, you did compile it with the fakeroot thingy
[09:31] <jsubl2> m_tthew, you did NOT rather compile it with the fakeroot thingy
[09:31] <neighborlee> no matter...total progress is at 55% so i'm almost there