[04:25] <valorie> I don't have permissions necessary to do this ^^^
[04:27] <darthanubis> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kubuntu-notification-helper/+bug/1434226
[04:27] <darthanubis> I can confirm that removing kubuntu-notification-helper solves the issue for now
[04:27] <darthanubis> https://www.kubuntuforums.net/showthread.php?67778-Kubuntu-15-04-Beta-2-unusable-after-a-short-period-of-time/page2
[04:35] <valorie> darthanubis: is this a new update?
[04:35] <valorie> I've not seen a problem
[04:36] <darthanubis> at least from yesterday
[04:36] <valorie> baloo_file is the only thing that acts up occasionally for me
[04:37] <darthanubis> do you have the notification helper installed and have you recently rebooted since the yesterday updates?
[04:39] <valorie> $ apt-cache policy kubuntu-notification-helper
[04:39] <valorie> kubuntu-notification-helper:
[04:39] <valorie>   Installed: 15.04ubuntu3
[04:39] <valorie>   Candidate: 15.04ubuntu3
[04:40] <valorie> I did not restart today, but I did yesterday
[04:40] <valorie> when did that drop?
[04:41] <valorie> since muon-updater started working again, I'll just been clicking that when I see it
[04:41] <darthanubis> not sure, I'm guess yesterday from teh bug report and forum posts
[04:42] <valorie> I'll try restarting a bit later
[04:42] <valorie> busy now
[04:42] <valorie> oh, the bug is confirmed already
[04:42] <valorie> I can still tick the "hurts me too" button if I notice the problem
[05:03] <frecel> is anyone awake
[05:03] <frecel> I'm having some critical issues with kwin in 15.04
[05:13] <valorie> but you didn't say *what* issues
[05:15]  * tazz hugs valorie
[05:16] <valorie> {{{{{{{{{{{hug}}}}}}}}}}s to tazz
[07:04] <sitter> Riddell: I seem to be missing the 5.2.2 tag in muon repo apparently
[07:04] <sitter> just a fyi
[07:05] <lordievader> Good morning.
[07:31] <Riddell> sitter: mm I noticed that yesterday, there is one there but I'm not sure it's where it should be
[07:31] <Riddell> hola lordievader
[07:32] <lordievader> Hey Riddell, how are you doing?
[07:33] <valorie> nice job with shadeslayer yesterday, Riddell
[07:36] <Riddell> valorie: oh thanks, did we do ok?
[07:36] <Riddell> lordievader: dreich day in barcelona but I'm still happy :)
[07:36] <sitter> File muon_5.2.2-1-0ubuntu3.debian.tar.xz already exists in Primary Archive for Ubuntu, but uploaded version has different contents. See more information about this error in https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging/UploadErrors.
[07:36] <sitter>   * Add upstream_branch.diff for upstream Plasma/5.2 branch
[07:36] <sitter>  -- Jonathan Riddell<EMAIL_ADDRESS> Tue, 31 Mar 2015 16:07:44 +0200
[07:36] <sitter> Riddell: >.<
[07:36] <sitter> sync with git and shit
[07:37] <Riddell> sitter: oh you mean tag in packaging?
[07:37] <sitter> no, I mean upstream repo has no tag in the Plasma/5.2 branch
[07:37] <Riddell> sitter: I fixed kubuntu-notifications-helper to work yesterday and it seems now people are complaining that it's working a bit too hard
[07:37] <sitter> and your packaging stuff is not in the repo
[07:37] <sitter> so now I replicated the work
[07:37] <Riddell> gotcha
[07:45] <sitter> Riddell: what happened to knh?
[07:45] <yofel> lp 1434226 happened
[07:46] <sitter> wtf
[07:46] <sitter> that function
[07:47] <sitter> Riddell: your knh changes are also not in git
[07:48] <sitter>         url = kde:scratch/sitter/kubuntu-notification-helper
[07:51] <yofel> sitter: that is certainly not the right repository... and as knh has no VCS set in debian/control, it's not in git anywhere
[07:53] <sitter> http://quickgit.kde.org/?p=scratch%2Fsitter%2Fkubuntu-notification-helper.git
[07:53] <yofel> I meant that your scratch repos are like the last place I would look at if I would search for a knh repo...
[07:54] <sitter> be that as it may, that's where it lives :P
[07:54] <sitter> someone could playgroundify them
[07:54] <yofel> then at least add Vcs-Git pointing to that -.-
[07:54] <sitter> then we'd also be able to draw translations from kde
[07:54] <sitter> yofel: well now I can't because the repo is not up-to-date :P
[07:55] <Riddell> I tested kcm-whoopsie for translations and wondered why they didn't work, turns out lp translations are just not very good, we should get that moved to playground too
[07:55] <yofel> sitter: as I said, without a Vcs setting, that's really your fault ^^
[07:56] <sitter> Riddell: they don't work because they haven't been imported until this week or last
[07:56] <sitter> I think I sent a mail about that
[07:56] <sitter> yofel: yes
[07:57] <Riddell> sitter: right you did, now they "work" just the translations are out of date but maybe lp translators will catch up
[07:58] <sitter> well they are out of date because they only were available for translation for like 1 week and probably pitti didn't even upload a translation import from lp->archive in that time frame anyway ;)
[07:58] <sitter> (assuming they actually are available for translation at all now, which I haven't checked)
[07:59] <Riddell> https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/vivid/+source/kde-config-whoopsie/+pots/kcm-whoopsie/es/+translate  has "Copyright 2013-2014 Harald Sitter"
[07:59] <sitter> groovy then
[07:59] <sitter> perhaps we should shoot a mail to the translation list
[08:00] <Riddell> please do :)
[08:00] <sitter> mh
[08:00] <sitter> Riddell: spanish occurs to me a bit badly maintained anyway
[08:00] <sitter> those strings aren't new
[08:00] <sitter> in fact, I am not sure there were any new main strings at all... only metadata stuff could have changed
[08:01] <sitter> so yeah, playgroundification would be a reasonable thing :P
[08:04] <sitter> that knh patch needs test backing
[08:04] <sitter> in fact, the recursy function should have had one to begin with
[08:12] <Riddell> sitter: I'll e-mail<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[08:12] <sitter> ok
[08:13] <kbroulik> is there a way to turn a kubuntu weekly ci installation into a regular beta 2 install? eg. removing some repositories or so?
[08:14] <sitter> sudo ppa-purge ppa:kubuntu-ci/unstable-weekly && sudo apt-add-repository -r ppa:kubuntu-ci/unstable-weekly && sudo apt install kubuntu-desktop
[08:22] <kbroulik> sitter: <3
[08:25] <Riddell> waa spotify linux client doesn't work any more, missing the version of libgcrypt it wants :(
[08:25] <sitter> third party software deployment on linux - much awesome
[08:26] <Riddell> ximion will sort that out with Limba
[08:32] <soee> good morning
[08:49] <xennex81> another question, the same question, once more: will any amount of goodness from the visuals of plasma4 (oxygen, air ...) make it through in plasma5, or at least in 15.04?
[08:49] <xennex81> i am intending to have my 15.04 look a bit still like my 14.10, I guess that is the issue.
[08:50] <xennex81> I was asking in #ubuntu+1:
[08:50] <xennex81> "plasma 4. Has these themes. Oxygen. But most importantly Air, I guess. It looks pretty fancy with high contrast. At least when compared to Plasma 5 breeze light theme."
[08:51] <xennex81> "it has nice icons. It was often said that 15.04 woudl ship plasma5 "by default" but I hear say that plasma5 is going to be the only option."
[08:51] <Riddell> xennex81: sure you can install oxygen on plasma 5
[08:51] <xennex81> that's [sic] --> would.. Okay
[08:51] <Riddell> at least icons and qt widget theme, dunno about plasma theme
[08:51] <Riddell> hi soee, your bug with muon should be fixed in the upload yesterday
[08:52] <xennex81> right, currently I am using the base default of Kubuntu 14.10 with something changed to Oxygen (basically the window decorations theme or something, I mean the overall theme).
[08:52] <xennex81> Oxygen itself in this install doesn't seem to ship with the required stuff for changing anything else (everying is set to "File..." as if I can only load a file with the required theme options or the files)
[08:53] <xennex81> "although I feel that having an option to select the older looks is a great asset to any distribution and certainly to this one."
[08:54] <xennex81> but if what you say is true that would be great, is that hard?
[08:54] <soee> Riddell: confirmed, thank you
[08:55] <xennex81> "it would just be great if any of the old would seep through in the new."
[08:55] <xennex81> "and I don't really know how to explain myself but it's really simple. The question is really whether these icons and themes are present or could be present or will be made present in 15.04, by any chance whatsoever?" <--- this is what I had asked, just for reference
[08:55] <soee> nice one http://blog.martin-graesslin.com/blog/2015/04/enhancing-user-experience-through-the-compositor/
[08:55] <xennex81> i mean is it just a matter of selecting a package from the repo?
[08:56] <xennex81> sounds cool, but more about this
[08:57] <xennex81> what is the "plasma theme"?
[09:00] <xennex81> there is "style" for Applications, for Colours, Icons, and there is also Workspace Appearance -> Desktop Theme
[09:00] <xennex81> i think you mean the latter right, @Riddell
[09:02] <Riddell> Desktop Theme will be plasma theme yes
[09:02] <Riddell> user support is usually better in #kubuntu BTW
[09:04] <sitter> Riddell: http://kci.pangea.pub/job/vivid_unstable_kdeplasma-addons/107/parsed_console/job/vivid_unstable_kdeplasma-addons/107/parsed_console/log_content.html#WARNING1
[09:08] <Riddell> sitter: what am I to look at ?
[09:08] <sitter> Riddell: warnings about missing qml dependencies ;)
[09:10] <Riddell>  kwin-addons has missing dependencies...  and  plasma-widget-kimpanel has missing dependencies...  ?
[09:10] <Riddell> how is that done?
[09:11] <Riddell> and when will we get dh_qml to just add them magically like dh_shlibs? :)
[09:11] <sitter> that's post-build stuff unfortunately
[09:11] <sitter> otherwise you'd have to have qml deps as build-deps
[09:11] <sitter> which seems a bit meh considering they are runtime
[09:12] <Riddell> shrug, there are worse things in the world
[09:12] <Riddell> "KCI-I :: QtQuick.Controls[1.0] not found." so you wrote some magic to do that?
[09:13] <sitter> anyway, what happens is: it installs each of the debs generated by the source, lists their content, parses all *.qml files to extract their imports, then tries to lookup the actual module according to the lookup rules, it purges the package and autoremoves the deps again and moves on to the next package
[09:14] <sitter> i.e. basic principle: if installing the package does not also install the module, the module must be missing
[09:16] <Riddell> seems sensible
[09:18] <soee> someone can take a lok @ #kubuntu and the problem user has - QT apps starts very slow (~ 1 minute), there is a output form konsole when starting Dolphin
[09:25] <Riddell> nvidia-prima is to "hybrid graphics (Intel+NVIDIA)" what the heck is Intel+NVIDIA?
[09:27] <yofel> two gpus?
[09:27] <soee> :D
[09:27] <Riddell> but but.. why?
[09:27] <Riddell> and why mix manufacturers?
[09:27] <sitter> nobody knows why
[09:28] <soee> well intel need less power etc. so yo can use it for exaple when you dont need any fancy gpu speed i think
[09:28] <Riddell> d_ed: does sddm have ways to do this? https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/kubuntu-devel/2015-April/009405.html
[09:29] <Riddell> display-setup-script=/sbin/prime-offload display-stopped-script=/sbin/prime-switch
[09:29] <sitter> Riddell: intel makes cheapo weak onboard graphics,nvidia makes expensive heavy duty graphics. since intel would need less powa the two get combined depending on what is needed
[09:29] <soee> when you do some graphic processing, gaming etc. you need more powerfull gpu = nvidia
[09:30] <soee> but it works like this i think: even when you are using nvidia, it rendres all but it anyway goes through intel to be displayd on screen ;)
[09:31] <sitter> well, the graphics would have to go over some bus, who it belongs to doesn't matter
[09:32] <sitter> it's not like the nvidia gpu would process it and then intel would process it again, data would simply run over the (idle anyway) intel bus
[09:32] <sitter> anywho
[09:32] <sitter> it's all very silly IMO
[09:34] <soee> well there is one plus, when using nvidai + propriety drivers, it almost impossible to get screen not tearing, with intel all works just smooth :)
[09:34] <soee> this is most visible with some dynamic scenes like in the movies or when playing some games
[09:35] <sitter> clearly the solution there is to fix the driver rather than have two gpus :P
[09:37] <soee> true :)
[09:37] <soee> but in 14.10 i had teh nvidia-prime working pretty nice
[09:38] <soee> but sine im on vivid i use only inel as nvidia-prime wont work here atm :)
[09:41] <soee> @ #kubutnu [11:40] <avtolik> hey guys, do you know why kwalletmanager5 is missing from the kubuntu plasma 5 repo?
[09:41] <soee> *kubuntu
[10:00] <soee> https://plus.google.com/+L%C3%AAPh%C6%B0%C6%A1ng2210/posts/NaAjYW75VXb
[10:01] <sitter> soee: there is no kwalletmanager5
[10:02] <soee> sitter: and what he needs to get wifi passwords saved ?
[10:03] <sitter> kwallet5
[10:06] <Riddell> yay bug 1426132 fixed
[10:07]  * sitter falls over
[10:07] <sitter> Riddell: are you going to push your knh upload to git plz
[10:08] <Riddell> yep, just need to reboot after the upgrade test
[10:10] <soee> Riddell: did you checked the merge request from ahoneybun @ kubuntu docs in help center ?
[10:13] <Riddell> soee: URL?
[10:14] <soee> Riddell: i think this one [23:20] <ahoneybun> Riddell: https://code.launchpad.net/~aaronhoneycutt/kubuntu-docs/vivid/+merge/254841
[10:15] <yofel> Riddell: protip: commit your change to git and generate the upload package from that. That way you don't forget to commit
[10:15] <Riddell> thanks soee
[10:15] <Riddell> yofel: what did I fail with that on?
[10:15] <yofel> knh? ^^
[10:16] <Riddell> oh well as you say there's nothing to indicate it even had a git repository :)
[10:16] <yofel> oh right, nvm me ^^
[10:29] <soee> why notifications should suggest kscreensaver
[10:33] <Riddell> to install extra ones, but we don't have kscreensaver any more
[10:33] <Riddell> cos really there's only so many flying toasters you can have before you get bored
[10:34] <soee> :)
[10:47] <Riddell> hmm muchos breakage in kubuntu-notification-helper
[10:55] <sitter> badly written software
[10:57] <Riddell> nonsense, just needs some toucing up
[10:59] <sitter> it is
[10:59] <sitter> just like kubuntu-debug-installer
[10:59] <sitter> crap made when we were younger
[11:03] <Riddell> hmm, do we actually have a release upgrade notification in 15.04?
[11:03] <Riddell> muon installer does it but does muon-notifier?
[11:35] <sitter> that hook class in knh gives me a headache
[11:36] <sitter> yofel: which hook file is causing the recursion?
[11:37] <Riddell> good question, that code wouldn't be run if there isn't a hook file
[11:38] <Riddell> yofel, tsdgeos: what do you have in /var/lib/update-notifier/user.d ?
[11:40] <ahoneybun> thanks soee
[11:41] <yofel> hm, I removed knh on this system, but here I have "apt-file-update  dropbox-start-required  ecryptfs-record-passphrase  steam-install-notify"
[11:41] <yofel> checking my notebook will have to wait until evening
[11:43] <Riddell> yofel: that's fine any one will cause the bug
[11:45] <ahoneybun> Riddell: for some reason the main branch of ubiquity was missing the last icon as well, I think I fixed the first icon, I ran "bzr add" on all the files. The first icon was missing cuz I edited the welcome.html for the screenshot.
[11:46] <Riddell> ahoneybun: ok, what do I need to get the fix?
[11:47] <ahoneybun> Riddell: I made the changes to my branch so just a merge for the ubiquity
[11:48] <ahoneybun> I'll grab the url
[11:48] <ahoneybun> https://code.launchpad.net/~aaronhoneycutt/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu/vivid/+merge/254846
[11:48] <Riddell> lovely
[11:48] <ahoneybun> let me fix the last few permissions
[11:48] <Riddell> ahoneybun: you also did lots of updates to -docs package? is that to make it all kf5 style docs?
[11:49] <ahoneybun> Riddell: to fix that one bug mostly (with yofel help a lot)
[11:49] <Riddell> ahoneybun: you have an nvidia? do you know what driver manager installs when you tell it to install stuff?
[11:50] <ahoneybun> Riddell: I do, not sure what it does everytime I installer the nonfree driver I can never get the system to work right
[11:51] <ahoneybun> \o/ no more permission changes!
[11:51] <ahoneybun> Riddell: ubiquity is all good to merge (no extra work for you this time)
[11:54] <sitter> woah
[11:54] <sitter> that hook parser seems a bit weird
[11:54] <Riddell> sitter: how so?
[11:54] <ahoneybun> for the docs https://code.launchpad.net/~aaronhoneycutt/kubuntu-docs/vivid/+merge/254841
[11:54] <Riddell> it's badly named
[11:55] <sitter> I can rip out half the entires in my test case and the hook class still thinks the file is valid
[11:55] <sitter> I can remove the entire name and it will still be happy >.<
[11:55] <Riddell> sitter: I don't think it's formally specified, Command=true is probably a valid file
[11:56] <sitter> Riddell: the code talks of a spec. but even if it there wasn't one no name and no description pretty much consistute an invalid hook as far as the gui is concerned
[11:57] <sitter> anyway, I have some highlevel test, I just need an example file that causes recursion
[11:58] <Riddell> sitter: don't they all?
[11:58] <Riddell> it calls getField()
[11:58] <Riddell> which calls getField()
[11:58] <Riddell> but it never actually parses the field
[12:00]  * ahoneybun would love to get notifications from IRC
[12:00] <yofel> hm, felix supposedly fixed that in quassel
[12:01] <ahoneybun> in konversation
[12:01] <Riddell> doesn't it?
[12:01] <Riddell> nudge sho if not I guess
[12:01] <sitter> Riddell: nope, I don't understand the code
[12:03] <sitter> ah you are probably right
[12:03] <sitter> how did that ever work Oo
[12:04] <sitter> it's actually possible that it broke in the port
[12:04] <sitter> the lookup flatness looks like something I would write
[12:05] <ahoneybun> Riddell: there will be one more update to kubuntu-docs before release as I update the installer slides on the wiki
[12:05] <sitter> ah yes
[12:05] <sitter> I did change the lookup
[12:05] <sitter> it didn't get more loopy though, it was inifinite recursion previously as well Oo
[12:07] <Riddell> ahoneybun: we also need to work out how the translations for the slideshow works
[12:09] <ahoneybun> Riddell: of course, not sure how it worked before but I'll help
[12:09] <Riddell> ahoneybun: ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu_95.dsc up!
[12:09] <ahoneybun> :) I got a email \o/
[12:10] <ahoneybun> I'll grab a daily build tomorrow and test
[12:11] <ahoneybun> work bbl
[12:13] <sitter> oh oh oh
[12:13] <sitter> Riddell: I broke it!
[12:13] <sitter> there used to be readFile(str, locale) and readFile(str), I folded the two and now it's infinity read
[12:14] <Riddell> ¡que facha!
[12:15] <Riddell> sitter: shall we put this into playground?
[12:16] <sitter> everything must go into playground
[12:16] <Riddell> turns out I'm not the only one who doesn't sync archive with git, harald also made an upload that isn't in git :)
[12:16] <Riddell> pushed now
[12:17] <Riddell> "Launchpad currently recommends translating kubuntu-notification-helper in Ubuntu Utopic. "  hmm we're a month from release why is launchpad still recomending utopic
[12:18] <sitter> Riddell: what did I not push?
[12:19] <Riddell> sitter: +  * Set library translation domain for kded and kcm
[12:19] <sitter> fancy
[12:21] <Riddell> "Launchpad currently recommends translating kde-config-whoopsie in Ubuntu Vivid. "  good fixed, whatever would ubuntu do without us?
[12:22] <BluesKaj> Hiyas all
[12:25] <Riddell> hmm even the export tar from launchpad is weird for translations
[12:25] <tsdgeos> Riddell: tsdgeos_work@xps:~$ ls  /var/lib/update-notifier/user.d/
[12:25] <tsdgeos> apt-file-update  data-downloads-failed  steam-install-notify
[12:25] <tsdgeos> Riddell: i uninstalled the kubuntu package yesterday if it matters
[12:26] <Riddell> tsdgeos: could you pastebin this? for asdf in /var/lib/update-notifier/user.d/*; do echo ${asdf}; cat ${asdf}; done
[12:27] <tsdgeos> Riddell: http://paste.ubuntu.com/10717990/
[12:31] <Riddell> thanks
[12:31] <Riddell> sitter: some example files for you ↑
[12:32] <sitter> http://paste.ubuntu.com/10718018/
[12:32] <sitter> qq
[12:34] <sitter> the function is even more wrong
[12:34] <sitter> jebus
[12:35] <sitter> I feel like I am rewriting code I wrote in libkubuntu already
[12:35]  * sitter looks
[12:35] <Riddell> sitter: I pushed an updated launchpad translations export
[12:36] <sitter> Riddell: a what now?
[12:36] <Riddell> sitter: what don't you understand?
[12:37] <Riddell> sitter: pushed fix for bug 1439139
[12:38] <Riddell> sitter: does moving to playground need a kde sysadmin request?
[12:39] <Riddell> https://techbase.kde.org/Policies/Application_Lifecycle seems to still talk about svn
[12:45] <Riddell> sitter: https://sysadmin.kde.org/tickets/index.php?page=tickets&act=doadd submitted to request a new playground repository then I think we get instructions to move it and then we talk to i18n people I guess
[12:55] <Riddell> "kf5.kded: kded module "notificationhelper" still uses .desktop files ("kded/notificationhelper.desktop"). Please port it to JSON metadata." moans kded
[12:59] <Riddell> ahoneybun: could you help me understand the nvivia issue a bit more?
[13:02] <xennex81> soee: Isn't that intel+nvidia the same as what AMD was doing with ATI, ie. if you have a defined set of matching chips (onboard AMD and discrete ATI) that then it *could* work together but the marginal gains were so low that you really wondered if it was anything more than a nice idea?
[13:03] <xennex81> soee: or is it these days about power consumption?
[13:03] <xennex81> soee: being less I mean.
[13:03] <soee> xennex81: tbh, i never had any ati card so im not usre this gpu segment
[13:04] <soee> what i read bout this, it was power save etc. topic. We have nvidia prime only on laptops
[13:05] <soee> because here you want to save power etc. if you dont need some nice gpu power most of teh time
[13:05] <soee> it would be pointless to have nvidia active and used then
[13:05] <soee> thats teh point i thin
[13:05] <soee> *think
[13:05] <xennex81> soee: I'd have to look into this current technology but it seems odd to me that there'd actually be a form of GPU-offloading, but I guess it's there if the driver supports both.... (that nVidia Primus).
[13:06] <xennex81> yeah I guess, looking into it a bit, interesting :)
[13:07] <xennex81> anyway, I just wanted to mention that it seems odd @sitter
[13:07] <sitter> ?
[13:08] <sitter> Riddell:  while you are pestering sysadmins file tickets for all the kubuntu repos I have in my scratch :P
[13:09] <xennex81> about the nvidia primus thing, something is bugging me about it ;-). Never mind though.
[13:10] <soee_> uhm, i was discronnected :<
[13:11] <soee_> xennex81: http://www.nvidia.co.uk/object/optimus_technology_uk.html
[13:11] <soee_> you can watch teh short video there lso
[13:12] <soee_> on windows it works a bit less coplicad then linux. hre we have to switch gpu and relogin
[13:13] <soee_> on windows you can rightclick on app and pick from contet menu the gpu that should be used
[13:14] <soee_> i think some latops offer option in bios to turn off one o the cards
[13:14] <soee_> sadly not on my dell
[13:16] <soee_> Riddell: i think this explains all http://www.nvidia.co.uk/content/optimus_technology/optimus_technology_popup_uk.html :D
[13:16] <xennex81> i see that there is a "bumblebee" project that you have to install for it
[13:16] <soee_> you want just nvidia-prime package tbh
[13:17] <soee_> it adds cli or gui (in nvidia-settings) to switch gpus
[13:17] <soee_> but dont try now as it does not ork with sddm :-)
[13:18] <xennex81> ok, nevermind.
[13:21] <xennex81> Riddell: I had asked my themes in Vivid question on #kubuntu at first, I was redirected to #ubuntu+1, then to #kubuntu-devel, sorry if I am burdening you here.
[13:40] <Riddell> sitter: is there a way to list those?
[13:43] <sitter> Riddell: quickgit.kde.org?
[13:44] <soee_> i think this is teh most annoying bug atm: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/sddm/+bug/1407152
[13:44] <soee_> is it easy to fix ?
[13:47] <Riddell> soee_: it's an upstream bug i think, d_ed is that what we were talking about earlier? ↑
[13:47] <d_ed> probably, but I don't think it's SDDM
[13:47] <d_ed> given ksmserver is still running
[13:54] <Riddell> kcm-driver-manager -> kde-config-driver-manager
[13:54] <Riddell> kcm-whoopsie -> kde-config-whoopsie
[13:54] <Riddell> sitter: how about those renames for debian's policy on naming kcms?
[13:55] <sitter> fine by me
[13:55] <sitter> got annoyed by it the other day as well ^^
[13:55] <sitter> I think the source packages might even be named differently than their repos
[13:55] <sitter> its very weird all
[14:03] <Riddell> tickets opened for kde-config-whoopsie git repository
[14:03] <Riddell> kubuntu-debug-installer git archive
[14:03] <Riddell> Move kubuntu-notificaitons-helper to playground
[14:03] <Riddell> kde-config-driver-manager git archive
[14:09] <sitter> http://paste.ubuntu.com/10718498/
[14:09] <sitter> just once I'd like to fix a bug without having to write a ton of code to fix another bug that appeared in the course of fixing the initial bug
[14:12] <Riddell> but then how would you show your elite coding powers?
[14:13] <sitter> good point :O
[14:14] <Riddell> "hookevent" is an annoying name, the user visible name is "upgrade information" neither is very descriptive and neither match the other
[14:14] <Riddell> although "other notifications" is not very descriptive :)
[14:15] <Riddell> but too late for string changes
[14:17] <Riddell> mparillo: upgrade from 14.10 is working, might be worth a tweet or two :)
[14:18]  * Riddell removes warning from kubuntu.org/news/kubuntu-vivid-beta-2
[14:20] <xennex81> seriously? Entire upgrade from 14.10 to 15.04 is working?
[14:21] <soee_> ;]
[14:22] <Riddell> well it's not completely broken, more testing appreciated
[14:22] <sitter> such a waste of time
[14:22] <sitter> Riddell: [ubuntu/vivid-proposed] kubuntu-notification-helper 15.04ubuntu4 (Waiting for approval)
[14:24] <Riddell> sitter: rejected, you forgot my fix which I just pushed
[14:25] <sitter> mh
[14:25] <BluesKaj> glad you guys mentioned the upgrade from 14.10 to 15.04 isn't quite ready yet , was about to  do-release-upgrade -d
[14:25] <sitter> Riddell: you didn't add a changelog entry
[14:25] <sitter> oh oh
[14:25] <sitter> Riddell: the update translation commit seems wrong
[14:25] <sitter> they should come from some language-pack
[14:26] <Riddell> from where?
[14:26] <sitter> language-pack-en: /usr/share/locale-langpack/en_AU/LC_MESSAGES/kcm_notificationhelper.mo
[14:26] <Riddell> you want them extracted from 100 language-pack packages?
[14:26] <Riddell> why?
[14:27] <xennex81> i might do it in a harddrive install (no VM) prior to see if I can install it from scratch (15.04 that is, if I'm not going to install Ubuntu GNOME for a change first -- I have a bit of a rambunctiousness planned) but it will be a few weeks.
[14:27] <sitter> Riddell: noooo, they are to be used from there
[14:27] <sitter> Riddell: the import you did is being stripped during build
[14:27] <sitter> the solution here is to patch ki18n to search locale-langpack
[14:27] <sitter> Riddell: new upload incoming
[14:28] <Riddell> sitter: hang on, we still have bug 1439147
[14:28] <Riddell> although I guess with the kded issue we should get a fix in pronto
[14:28] <sitter> yah
[14:28] <Riddell> sitter: needs X-Ubuntu-Use-Langpack: yes removed and then it won't get stripped?
[14:29] <sitter> then the languages don't get updated
[14:29] <sitter> the solution is to patch ki18n :P
[14:29] <Riddell> ki18n does read from locale-langpack
[14:30] <sitter> then the import is useless anyway
[14:30] <Riddell> we don't want the languages to get updated don't we? we want to move translations upstream
[14:30] <sitter> as I was saying... the translations are in the langpack
[14:30] <sitter> Riddell: not for 15.04 we don't
[14:30] <Riddell> right but we want to move to them being upstream
[14:30] <Riddell> well 15.04 can do whatever it wants :)
[14:30] <sitter> yes we want them from upstream, but right now we have no upstream translations :P
[14:31] <sitter> all we have is lunchpad tranlsations and the workflow for those is to land via langpacks
[14:31] <sitter> so that's what we have to stick with until we have upstream translations
[14:32] <Riddell> yep
[14:32] <Riddell> anyway good stuff sitter
[14:38] <Riddell> why do none of the files in this thing have comments?!
[14:40] <Riddell> restricted install notifier is only shown when an app calls it like k3b?
[14:40] <Riddell> when did flash-install get shown?
[14:43] <KDDA> anyone got a fix for kded5 going buck crazy and consuming RAM and swap, bring system to its knees?
[14:44] <Riddell> KDDA: yep, sitter is being wonderful and has coded one especially for you
[14:44] <Riddell> keep an eye on https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kubuntu-notification-helper/15.04ubuntu4
[14:45] <tsdgeos> KDDA: or just uninstall the kubuntu-notification-helper for now :D
[14:46]  * Riddell wonders why the download icon in breeze is a floppy disk
[14:49] <KDDA> what is causing it?!?
[14:51] <Riddell> it's a coding error, recursive call
[14:53] <tsdgeos> KDDA: or just uninstall the kubuntu-notification-helper for now :D
[14:53] <tsdgeos> he
[14:53] <tsdgeos> too slow
[14:53] <tsdgeos> need to be faster next time
[14:55] <KDDA> This is crazy
[14:55] <tsdgeos> KDDA: or just uninstall the kubuntu-notification-helper for now :D
[14:55] <KDDA> I did
[14:55] <tsdgeos> then you should not be having issues anymore
[14:55] <tsdgeos> are you?
[14:56] <KDDA> it happens all of a sudden
[14:56] <tsdgeos> should be fixed by removing kubuntu-notification-helper
[14:56] <tsdgeos> it fixed it for me
[14:56] <tsdgeos> truth be told i also removed all apport-
[14:56] <tsdgeos> packages
[14:57] <sitter> too much fancy tech that could be failing
[14:57]  * sitter out
[14:57] <KDDA> what is the actual problem?
[14:57] <sitter> someone drop me an email should there still be a grave issue with the notification-helper in the ubuntu4 upload
[14:58] <KDDA> is it nvidia
[15:00] <Riddell> no it's notification-helper
[15:02] <darthanubis> with kubuntu-notification-helper being fixed, temporarily removed for me as well, I wake up to baloo-file using 100% cpu. Will that get resolved as well. I'm sure it will, but is there something I can do to avoid it for now?
[15:05] <Riddell> no changes for baloo forthcoming
[15:05] <Riddell> get a backtrace and send it to bugs.kde.org
[15:05] <BluesKaj> darthanubis, disable desktop search in system settings and see if that helps
[15:06] <darthanubis> ok
[15:11] <BluesKaj> thing is baloo only indexes for a very short time afaik, correct me if I'm mistaken
[15:12] <BluesKaj> since I don't use it
[15:21] <mgraesslin> valorie: please tell people to use forum.kde.org instead of pinging me :-)
[15:21] <soee> oh oh i have new notification after upating ntification helper ;) something bout incomplete language pack
[15:42] <Riddell> soee: yep, all part of this kubuntu-notification-helper fixage
[15:42] <Riddell> soee: does it work sensibly?
[15:43] <soee> Riddell: define sensibly :)
[15:46] <Riddell> soee: does it give you a nice dialog that explains what it's doing then install language packs?
[15:46] <mparillo> Riddell: I will be happy to tweet the update (and remove the not recommended from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/VividVervet/Beta2/Kubuntu), but (1) Is a 32-bit test necessary first, and (2) maybe I should slow down on the Kubuntu Wire. I saw this complaint: http://wire.kubuntu.org/?p=281#disqus_thread
[15:47] <Riddell> mparillo: yeah I guess stuff on kubuntu.org isn't needed on wire
[15:48] <Riddell> mparillo: while you're at it you could include that kded going mad is fixed with kubuntu-notification-helper 15.04ubuntu4 in the archive shortly
[15:58] <soee> Riddell: not exactly
[16:02] <soee> Riddell: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UETeERqwZ6M&feature=youtu.be
[16:04] <soee> Riddell: when we talk about UX, if we click on notification it shows 2 windows, there should be one imo (for admin password) and than if authorisation is fine, second that installes the missing packages.
[16:04] <soee> Riddell: alo  if we cancel the first window, error is thrown that authorization failed
[16:04] <soee> Riddell: here simply all windows should be closed and notification icon placed back on panel systray
[16:05] <soee> also it wuld be good ot know what packages are going to be installed
[16:06] <soee> here we dont have any information about it
[16:06] <soee> that is for UX
[16:09] <Riddell> 2 dialogs seems like a small issue
[16:10] <Riddell> if you cancel it then authorisatoin did fail :)
[16:10] <Riddell> but yeah I take your point it's not ideal
[16:10] <Riddell> report bugs on https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kubuntu-notification-helper if you like
[16:11] <Riddell> and list of packages would be nice (if hidden probably)
[16:12] <soee> ill create bug report
[16:15] <Riddell> soee: and does it otherwise work?
[16:16] <soee> Riddell: how can i make the notification to show up again in systray after i caceled the installation like on video ?
[16:20] <Riddell> soee: killall kded5; kded5
[16:22] <ovidiu-florin> ahoneybun soee jose KDDA I've just migrated to using a child theme, please take a look over the site and report to me any issues
[16:22] <jose> link?
[16:22] <ovidiu-florin> here's the link again: http://kubwp.kubuntu.co.uk/
[16:23] <KDDA> does the shortcode for the copyright statetment work?
[16:26] <jose> thanks ovidiu-florin
[16:26] <soee> Riddell: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kubuntu-notification-helper/+bug/1439303
[16:27] <soee> oh crap helper not center =:)
[16:28] <ovidiu-florin> KDDA: haven't tried that yet
[16:28] <ovidiu-florin> I wanted to get the original functionality there first
[16:29] <soee> Riddell: restarting kded5 doesnt brig the icon back
[16:29] <ovidiu-florin> jose: do you want to k=take care of this: https://trello.com/c/Knf0m4ED/25-edit-http-www-kubuntu-org-news-kubuntu-14-10-to-note-that-ppa-next-is-no-longer-supported
[16:29] <kubotu> [Kubuntu Promotion :: To Do :: Edit http://www.kubuntu.org/news/kubuntu-14.10 to note that ppa-next is no longer supported. ++ ]
[16:29] <ovidiu-florin> on both sites
[16:30] <ovidiu-florin> jose: on both sites
[16:30] <jose> I'd do it but I'm currently swamped with work I've missed in the last couple days
[16:30] <ovidiu-florin> ok then
[16:30] <ovidiu-florin> valorie: is ^^ urgent?
[16:30] <soee> ovidiu-florin: give some space between content and footer
[16:31] <soee> ok now the icon is back
[16:34] <soee> ovidiu-florin: here http://kubwp.kubuntu.co.uk/feature-tour/ i would make all icons in the same shape - circles
[16:34] <soee> laso i woudl give them some space horizontally and to avoid linebreak, make them a bit smaller
[16:36] <soee> Riddell: the missing language files seems to be installed but we dont have any confirmation message like: all missing language files have been installed. you shoould now bla bla . . :)
[16:36] <Riddell> soee: if they're all installed it's all good, no need to disturb the user
[16:36] <soee> Riddell: well i didn;t have any error so i assume they were installed when progress bar reach 100% :)
[16:41] <ovidiu-florin> soee jose Riddell KDDA ahoneybun do we need the top navigation bar? with the logo? We already have those links in the featured area and in the footer.
[16:41] <jose> I'd say yes. however, it shows in two rows and not just one
[16:41] <jose> the donate button  makes a second row
[16:42] <ovidiu-florin> I know, that's because I increased the font size
[16:43] <soee> yes it shoudl stay
[16:43] <soee> imo
[16:43] <ovidiu-florin> it's kind of useless IMO
[16:43] <ovidiu-florin> but I think like an engineer, not a designer
[16:46] <ovidiu-florin> anyone else?
[16:48] <ovidiu-florin> otherwise I'd remove one of the menu items
[16:50] <Riddell> ovidiu-florin: the point is they're common across the whole site
[16:51] <ovidiu-florin> so's the footer
[16:51] <ovidiu-florin> Riddell: ^
[16:51] <ovidiu-florin> but I see your point
[16:51] <soee> Riddell: how many user will look @ footer ? :)
[16:51] <Riddell> without the top bar how do you go from http://kubwp.kubuntu.co.uk/community/ to the front page? or to download? the footer is too fiddly
[16:51] <Riddell> soee: not many I guess
[16:51] <soee> this part is often completely ignored  b users
[16:52] <Riddell> right
[16:55] <ovidiu-florin> soee Riddell jose ahoneybun KDDA how does the nav bar look now: http://kubwp.kubuntu.co.uk/
[16:56] <jose> yes
[16:56] <Riddell> ovidiu-florin: nice
[16:56] <jose> woot woot
[16:56] <soee> ovidiu-florin: on -md screens it breaks to  lines
[16:56] <soee> make font bigger, and padding for menu items smaller
[16:58] <soee> menu items shoudl have text-lign: center so on small screens they would work better
[16:58] <soee> *text-align
[16:59] <ovidiu-florin> soee: the font is 16px, I believe it's big enough
[16:59] <soee> yes i had to refresh
[17:00] <soee> also remove top margin from #logo not it makes a 3 pixels white space under main navigation when item is hovered
[17:00] <soee> or you can give #logo element fixed height
[17:01] <soee> and make image responsive
[17:03] <soee> this theme uses so old bootrstap styles :/
[17:05] <ovidiu-florin> soee: fixed height?
[17:05] <ovidiu-florin> why?
[17:05] <ovidiu-florin> instead of max-height?
[17:07] <soee> if container have height defined, then on child element - img - you can use height: 100% so th logo become responisve
[17:07] <soee> now teh logo height decides about whole top panel height
[17:08] <soee> i would make the kubuntu logo bit smaller
[17:09] <soee> but such change would require to giving top panel ow height so it will render properly on small screens ;)
[17:12] <ovidiu-florin> soee: I've set #logo to 70px height
[17:12] <ovidiu-florin> but I still see it as 62PX
[17:12] <ovidiu-florin> WTFudge?
[17:12] <mparillo> I removed the "Please note upgrade from Kubuntu Plasma5 14.10 is not supported and is unlikely to work, these users will need to reinstall" and the "Not Recommended" from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/VividVervet/Beta2/Kubuntu
[17:13] <Riddell> mparillo: ooh hang on that's wrong
[17:13] <Riddell> upgrade from Kubuntu Plasma5 14.10 is not supported
[17:14] <Riddell> mparillo: the change is  Please note that this approach is affected by (Bug:1426132) baloo is not replaced by baloo-kf5 on dist upgrade '''breaking release upgrade
[17:14] <Riddell> which I already removed from the wiki page
[17:14] <ovidiu-florin> soee: fixed....
[17:14] <soee> ovidiu-florin: because you have also max-height set
[17:16] <soee> ovidiu-florin: it needs also some chnages when panel is affixed mode
[17:18] <mparillo> Reverted, Sorry.
[17:19] <ovidiu-florin> soee: I don't understand
[17:23] <soee> ovidiu-florin: if you scroll page down, the top panel gets fixed positon (at the top) but with current #logo height under image and menu items there is a lot of space as this elements in fixed  top panel position have smaller size
[17:28] <ovidiu-florin> soee: fixed
[17:31] <soee> ovidiu-florin: you but hgive there #logo liek 8px top maring when panel is fixed
[17:31] <soee> *yup
[17:32] <Riddell> ahoneybun, yofel: kubuntu-docs uploaded thanks for that.  I can't merge with lp:kubuntu-docs because I don't have access, I've e-mailed the admin of the group.  what's the git repo on kde git about?
[17:38] <ovidiu-florin> soee: like this it looks more centered, at least on my screen
[17:41] <ovidiu-florin> ahoneybun: ping
[17:44] <Riddell> hmm, shall I move kdelibs4 docs from /usr/share/doc/kde/HTML to /usr/share/doc/HTML ?  this'll make docs work but will make us incompatible with debian and have to recompile everything
[17:47] <ovidiu-florin> Riddell: why do that?
[17:48] <Riddell> ovidiu-florin: "make docs work" currently khelpcentre can't read docs from kdelibs4 apps
[17:48] <ovidiu-florin> is the location hardcoded?
[17:48] <Riddell> ovidiu-florin: yes in the kdelibs configure command
[17:49] <ovidiu-florin> how does Debian solve this problem?
[17:49] <Riddell> they haven't changed to plasma 5 yet
[17:49] <ovidiu-florin> ah
[17:49] <ovidiu-florin> can't we have a symlink?
[17:52] <Riddell> I don't think so, it's already a directory so if you make a symlink there it'll go "no there's a directory here"
[17:53] <ovidiu-florin> soee: feedback please: http://kubwp.kubuntu.co.uk/feature-tour/
[17:53] <ovidiu-florin> soee: I can't make them round, unless I use some mask and hide part of the images
[17:54] <ovidiu-florin> I'd rather give them a nice border and a background, and make them all square
[17:55] <soee> ovidiu-florin: click here on teh submenu Applications or Pro Aps https://www.apple.com/pl/mac/
[17:56] <soee> they are presented pretty nice
[17:57] <ovidiu-florin> soee: you'd have to talk to VDG for that
[17:57] <Riddell> shadeslayer: got any thoughts on docs question? ↑
[17:57] <ovidiu-florin> tell them to be consistent
[18:05] <Riddell> hi Erthe
[18:06] <Erthe> Installed 15.04 Beta 2 yesterday; after being logged into the desktop for about 10 - 30 minutes, the system becomes unresponsive, how would I log this bug?
[18:06] <Erthe> Riddell: Hey Riddell
[18:08] <Erthe> Running on Nvidia GeForce 750 GTX, 64bit install, sddm and Plasma.
[18:08] <Erthe> But I don't know the cause.
[18:09] <Riddell> Erthe: install kubuntu-notification-helper 15.04ubuntu4
[18:09] <soee> Erthe: the dailt iso, or beta uso ?
[18:09] <soee> *daily
[18:09] <Riddell> log out and in and see if it continures
[18:09] <Riddell> continues
[18:09] <Erthe> soee: The Beta 2 ISO
[18:10] <Erthe> Riddell: OK, back shortly in Konversation then.
[18:10] <soee> Erthe: ok follow Riddells instruction
[18:13] <Erthe> Riddell: What was that package again?
[18:16] <soee> Erthe: kubuntu-notification-helper
[18:16] <Erthe> It's installed.
[18:16] <soee> https://launchpad.net/kubuntu-notification-helper
[18:16] <soee> Erthe: what version ?
[18:16] <Erthe> It says newest.
[18:16] <soee> apt-cache policy kubuntu-notification-helpe
[18:17] <soee> apt-cache policy kubuntu-notification-helper
[18:17] <Erthe> 15.04ubuntu3
[18:18] <soee> Erthe: install *4
[18:18] <soee> download the biuld your system uses https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kubuntu-notification-helper/15.04ubuntu4
[18:20] <Erthe> OK, let's see how that went, bbiab.
[18:27] <ovidiu-florin> Riddell: what parts of GCC do we ship? https://gcc.gnu.org/git/?p=gcc.git;a=tree
[18:28] <Riddell> ovidiu-florin: um dunno, I assume it's all in the archive
[18:28] <ovidiu-florin> it isn't
[18:28] <ovidiu-florin> I need this for debugging: https://gcc.gnu.org/git/?p=gcc.git;a=tree;f=libstdc%2B%2B-v3/python;h=db2b5361387fa7378b07c88848c1a433072d32c4;hb=HEAD
[18:29] <ovidiu-florin> how can I track gcc packaging and see if there's a possibility to add that
[18:29] <ovidiu-florin> in the package, or a sepparate one
[18:29] <ovidiu-florin> Riddell:  ^ ???
[18:29] <Riddell> doko is the gcc dude in ubuntu
[18:30] <ovidiu-florin> on which channel should I ask?
[18:30] <ovidiu-florin> lordievader: ping
[18:31] <ovidiu-florin> KDDA: how did you call that function to set the year automatically?
[18:31] <Riddell> ovidiu-florin: #ubuntu-devel I guess
[18:35] <lordievader> ovidiu-florin: Sort of pong?
[18:36] <ovidiu-florin> lordievader: any luck on the link thing?
[18:36] <ovidiu-florin> links*
[18:36] <lordievader> ?
[18:36] <ovidiu-florin> wait
[18:36] <ovidiu-florin> what was the last status?
[18:36] <ovidiu-florin> I forgot
[18:36] <ahoneybun> ovidiu-florin: pong
[18:36] <lordievader> ovidiu-florin: Err you asked me to rerun the scripts, I did, gave you a new list.
[18:37] <ovidiu-florin> yes, I remember now
[18:37] <ovidiu-florin> I need to filter that with my script
[18:37] <ahoneybun> ovidiu-florin: do we need that "Discover Kubuntu" if we have a big button for the feature tour?
[18:38] <ovidiu-florin> ahoneybun: please avoid using the WP editor on pages
[18:38] <ovidiu-florin> it breaks the JavaScript in the posts
[18:38] <ovidiu-florin> ahoneybun: at leas untill I make it not break them anymore
[18:39] <ovidiu-florin> ahoneybun: use just the text editor (HTML) for now
[18:39] <ahoneybun> ovidiu-florin: so don't make edits till your done, ok
[18:39] <ovidiu-florin> :))
[18:39] <ovidiu-florin> no
[18:39] <ovidiu-florin> just don't use the visual editor
[18:39] <ovidiu-florin> ahoneybun: where do you see "Discover Kubuntu"?
[18:40] <ahoneybun> bottom
[18:40] <ovidiu-florin> ah
[18:40] <ovidiu-florin> found it
[18:40] <ovidiu-florin> removing now
[18:40] <ahoneybun> ovidiu-florin: what did you ping me about?
[18:40] <ovidiu-florin> soee: are you still around//
[18:40] <ovidiu-florin> ?
[18:40] <ovidiu-florin> the editor
[18:40] <ahoneybun> oh ok
[18:40] <ovidiu-florin> ahoneybun: ^
[18:41] <ovidiu-florin> because the feature page internal links broke when you removed the Kontact KMail duplication
[18:41] <ahoneybun> ovidiu-florin: I saw that, sorry
[18:41] <ovidiu-florin> it's fixed now
[18:41] <ovidiu-florin> so, no problem
[18:42] <ahoneybun> Riddell: I'm going to update the screenshots for the installation part of the Docs but I'll keep it in my branch till we get control of the ubuntu-docs core
[18:45] <ovidiu-florin> lordievader: I cleaned up the filtered file
[18:45] <ovidiu-florin> lordievader: https://trello.com/c/36EqHCdB/20-make-sure-all-urls-from-the-old-site-are-available-valid-on-the-new-site
[18:45] <kubotu> [Kubuntu Promotion :: To Do :: make sure all urls from the old site are available/valid on the new site ++ OT, OB, JAR]
[18:51] <ovidiu-florin> lordievader: they should be all fixed, can you run a check?
[18:51] <ahoneybun> back
[18:51] <ahoneybun> darn wifi
[18:52] <ahoneybun> Riddell: do you need me to install the nvidia drivers and report back?
[18:54] <Riddell> ahoneybun: would be useful, I'm not sure what happens
[18:54] <Riddell> ahoneybun: if you could install it from driver manager in system settings and let me know what's in /var/log/apt/term.log
[18:54] <xennex81> i am wanting to start translating something for you guys but I'm starting with the userbase wiki I guess
[18:54] <Riddell> xennex81: thanks :)
[18:54] <ahoneybun> Riddell: let me jump into irc on another machine and report back
[18:55] <xennex81> if there is anything you want me to do in terms of translating software or whatever, drop me a line, but it'd be dutch only, so I guess you need me somewhere in some system right?
[18:55] <xennex81> i mean obviously it is just one language mostly
[18:55] <Riddell> xennex81: also https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-translators/2015-April/006838.html but I guess you need to be in the launchpad group for that
[18:55] <ahoneybun> Riddell: should I use the recommanded driver?
[18:56] <ahoneybun> I have 4 listed
[18:56] <Riddell> ahoneybun: dunno what are the options?
[18:56] <Riddell> ahoneybun: screenshot?
[18:57] <ahoneybun> let me grab one Riddell
[18:58] <ahoneybun_> http://imgur.com/oTE37Z5
[18:59] <Riddell> ahoneybun_: ah i guess that'll install nvidia-346-updates or similar
[18:59] <ahoneybun>  /var/log/apt/term.log
[19:00] <xennex81> Riddell: these three are already translated in Dutch, just not Frysian etc. but that is not very important
[19:00] <ahoneybun_> keeping that for later so I know where to look
[19:00] <xennex81> but thanks
[19:00] <ahoneybun> Riddell: so recommanded then?
[19:01] <Riddell> ahoneybun: pardon?
[19:01] <xennex81> I have added myself to the userbase translator list, now just waiting to be added to the list
[19:01] <ovidiu-florin> Riddell: what's that drink? http://kubwp.kubuntu.co.uk/news/kubuntu-9-04-beta-available/
[19:01] <xennex81> ie. get an account :p
[19:01] <ahoneybun> Riddell: use the recommanded driver then?
[19:01] <ahoneybun> *recommended
[19:01] <Riddell> ovidiu-florin: scotland's national drink :) http://www.irn-bru.co.uk/bundles/irnbruwebsiteframework/scenes/drinks/a/products@2x.png?4
[19:02] <Riddell> ahoneybun: I guess so
[19:02] <ahoneybun> ok
[19:03] <ovidiu-florin> Riddell: and that was an official Kubuntu limited edition?
[19:03] <ovidiu-florin> :P
[19:03] <Riddell> ovidiu-florin: limited to the one I stuck the sticker onto :)
[19:04] <ovidiu-florin> nice
[19:04] <Riddell> ahoneybun: good luck I need to wander off
[19:04]  * Riddell wanders off
[19:04] <ovidiu-florin> Riddell: http://kubuntu.org/~jriddell/9.04-release/desktop_thumb.png can you give me this file?
[19:05]  * ahoneybun takes a shower brb
[19:05] <ovidiu-florin> Riddell: actually everything in that folder
[19:11] <ovidiu-florin> Riddell: and the same for the 9.10 folder
[19:18] <ovidiu-florin> Riddell: do you have the pictures for those or should I mark this as done?
[19:25] <ahoneybun> Riddell: other then the desktop taking a bit longer to load up and a error message about "-session" I'm back up. Log: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/10720152/
[19:31] <ahoneybun> did anyone notice that the installer uses oxygen icons for the check marks and x's
[21:18] <lordievader> ovidiu-florin: Err, could you remind me in the weekend if I haven't done it by then?
[21:18] <ovidiu-florin> ok
[21:23] <KDDA> is  kubuntu-notification-helper fixed now?
[21:29] <ovidiu-florin> KDDA I've added the shortcode for the copyright
[21:29] <ovidiu-florin> thank you for the sugestion
[21:30] <KDDA> it working now within child theme?
[21:30] <soee> what the wih the chanell topic ?
[21:31] <KDDA> when is Vivid offical launch?
[21:31] <soee> yofel: ?
[21:31] <yofel> !schedule
[21:31] <yofel> hm..
[21:31] <soee> no no yofel: [23:30] <soee> what the wih the chanell topic ?
[21:31] <yofel> KDDA: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/VividVervet/ReleaseSchedule
[21:32] <yofel> soee: oh...
[21:32] <yofel> we got spammed I guess? -.-
[21:32] <soee> i dunno :)
[21:35] <soee> i fixed it :D
[21:35] <yofel> beat my by ~2s :P
[21:36] <soee> -.-
[21:36] <yofel> ^^
[21:36] <yofel> thanks
[21:36] <soee> lukly konversation has history
[21:47] <soee> notification for required system reboot works fine :)
[22:01] <valorie> ovidiu-florin: not urgent, but another user in #kubuntu said s/he had found that and used the advice to upgrade to 14.10 + ppa-next
[22:01] <valorie> since we no longer support that, we should remove or change that advice in all our pages - my search didn't turn that one up
[22:27] <ovidiu-florin> can't we turn that into an alias to the valid ppa?
[22:27] <ovidiu-florin> valorie: ^
[22:27] <ovidiu-florin> or make a blog post with an oficial statement that we no longer support that ppa
[22:27] <valorie> well, if people want plasma5, they should install the vivid beta
[22:28] <valorie> really, the point is to stop giving out bad advice
[22:28] <ovidiu-florin> ok, I'll look into it tomorrow, if someone doesn't fix it by then
[22:28] <ovidiu-florin> I'm off to bed
[22:28] <valorie> it could even be lined-through with html
[22:28] <ovidiu-florin> good night
[22:28] <valorie> niters
[22:29]  * valorie would fix, but has no permissions to the website
[22:29] <valorie> sweet dreams, ovidiu-florin
[22:33] <ahoneybun> valorie: still there?
[22:47] <valorie> yes, I'm here
[22:47] <valorie> finally finished reading up -- looks like I missed a busy day
[22:55] <ahoneybun> darn you konversion
[22:55] <ahoneybun> valorie: I could make a blog post
[23:09] <valorie> about?
[23:09] <valorie> sorry, the power blinked for a min and I was off checking that all the electronics were ok
[23:19] <mparillo> valorie: I can change some things on the website. Where did you find the advice to upgrade to 14.10 + ppa-next
[23:22] <ahoneybun> valorie: about ppa-next
[23:22] <valorie> http://www.kubuntu.org/news/kubuntu-14.10
[23:22] <valorie> I put the link in the trello card I wrote about it
[23:23] <valorie> so if you fix it, please move the trello card
[23:31] <ahoneybun> I have no access to the old site sorry
[23:31] <ahoneybun> just the new one
[23:32] <mparillo> I hacked it pretty hard.
[23:33] <mparillo> I have to run.
[23:33] <mparillo> I will try to update the Trello Card tonight.
[23:35] <valorie> thanks mparillo
[23:38] <mparillo> Trello does not like rekonq. Switching to Chrome. How do I claim the task.
[23:38] <valorie> just move from ToDo to Doing
[23:39] <mparillo> I cannot. Do I need permissions?
[23:39] <valorie> hmmm
[23:40] <valorie> are you a member of the board?
[23:41] <valorie> should be a little link up on the top-right
[23:41] <valorie> I don't see you, mparillo


[00:01] <meoblast001> wgrant: so having old email addresses is normal?
[00:02] <spiv> Good morning.
[00:02] <igc> hi spiv
[00:02] <wgrant> meoblast001: People change email addresses. You cannot change them in old commits. I think so.
[00:02] <meoblast001> well, you can, but it's not normal :P
[00:03] <meoblast001> and it breaks compatibility of all branches
[00:03] <igc> verterok: see https://answers.edge.launchpad.net/bzr-explorer/+question/84897. Was it ok to say that?
[00:04] <meoblast001> wgrant: one last question, do most version control systems also use emails like bazaar does?
[00:05] <meoblast001> bazaar is the only real version control system i've used with any of my projects
[00:05] <wgrant> meoblast001: I think all the DVCSes do, but I couldn't be sure.
[00:05] <malept> hi spiv, I believe you know the most about smart http servers?
[00:05] <wgrant> SVN does whatever it wants.
[00:05] <spiv> malept: probably, yeah
[00:06] <malept> spiv: what does ""An attempt to  access a url outside the server jail was made""
[00:06] <malept> mean?
[00:06] <meoblast001> wgrant: well, as linus torvalds says, svn is horrible, right? ;)
[00:06] <wgrant> meoblast001: Yes.
[00:06] <malept> (followed by a chroot-[somenumber]:///)
[00:07] <spiv> malept: probably that you're hitting https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/bzr/+bug/348308
[00:07] <spiv> malept: there's a work-around in the last comment.
[00:07] <verterok> igc: yes it was ok, I plan to make a installer for Tiger...but I don't have Snow Leopard and don't think I'm going to buy it in the short or medium term (as my main desktop is Ubuntu)
[00:08] <igc> verterok: cool. As long as the code for the installer is available, I'm sure someone will step up and do the Snow Leopard build.
[00:09] <malept> spiv: ok, thanks for the pointer
[00:09] <igc> In the worse case, I have a copy (which might work in a Parallels VM)
[00:09] <verterok> igc: I'm using jfroy's package branch as with that approach was quite easy to get it working :)
[00:10] <verterok> igc: also I added some infrastructure to make it compatible with all supported OS X versions ;)
[00:11] <igc> verterok: sounds very promising. I'm sure we'll have a heap of OS X users take up Bazaar once Explorer can be easily installed
[00:12] <jfroy|work> making a bundled version of Explorer shouldn't be terribly hard I think
[00:12] <verterok> jfroy|work: bundled? like a standalone "bzr.app"?
[00:13] <jfroy|work> yeah
[00:13] <jfroy|work> that's what we should go for
[00:13] <jfroy|work> guessing widely, either you can use a shell script doing "bzr explore" as the bundle's main executable
[00:13] <verterok> jfroy|work: I have been trying to build such beast using py2app, without much success. but I have a CLI only bzr bundle working
[00:13] <jfroy|work> or setup a small C program that loads up the interpreter and kicks off the command
[00:14] <verterok> jfroy|work, igc: the main issue I think is some bug in python 2.5 subprcoess module that makes explorer and Qbzr unusable :(
[00:15] <jfroy|work> cute
[00:15] <verterok> jfroy|work, igc: I keep getting: [Errno 4] Interrupted system cal
[00:15] <verterok> *call
[00:16] <verterok> each time I click in any button of explorer :(
[00:24] <verterok> igc, jfroy|work: I just pushed my branch, isn't finished yet but works for me (tm): lp:~verterok/+junk/OSX-package
[00:24]  * verterok needs to run, bbl
[00:24] <verterok> later!
[00:25] <igc> bye
[01:27] <poolie> igc, i'm planning to fire the announcement today
[01:27] <poolie> and then... should i tweak the web site more, or leave it to you?
[01:27] <igc> poolie: cool. Got KDE screenshots overnight so I'm just uploading a KDE tour now
[01:28] <igc> poolie: I'm happy for you to tweak the website from here
[01:28] <poolie> ok
[01:28] <poolie> i think my next thing would be to either get the fonts working
[01:28] <poolie> s/working/the right size
[01:29] <poolie> though that might be better left to someone who knows what they're doing :)
[01:29] <poolie> or to change it to be templated, so that we can add some dynamic content
[01:29] <igc> templated would be good
[01:30] <igc> I think we're better to leave the font tweaking to web designers myself
[01:30] <igc> it's fiddly
[01:39] <poolie> right
[01:39] <poolie> spiv, hi?
[01:47] <spiv> poolie: hey
[01:47] <spiv> poolie: had a good trip home?
[01:55] <poolie> yes thanks
[01:57] <poolie> igc, is it really worth having totally separate tours for every environment?
[01:57] <poolie> is it the same content and just different screenshots?
[01:57] <igc> poolie: content is 95% the same but there are differences
[01:58] <igc> poolie: people like to see programs running in their environment
[01:59] <igc> and its the best way IMO to drill home the cross-platform message
[01:59] <poolie> ok
[01:59] <igc> poolieL I still see lots of comments on IRC like "explorer is only for Windows isn't it"
[01:59] <igc> so I want to put that to bed forever
[02:00] <poolie> i was wondering if one document showing multiple systems would get that across more effectively
[02:00] <poolie> if people land on the windows one they might still be confused
[02:01] <igc> the fist paragraph in every tour points to the others
[02:02] <igc> first
[02:08] <poolie> spiv is there a master bug for toomanyconcurrentrequests masking other errors?
[02:10] <spiv> poolie: bug 429747 is the closest, I think.
[02:14] <poolie> how did you get along with that bug last week?
[02:33] <quidnunc> If I tried an upgrade and it fails, how do I restore the original version?
[02:35] <poolie> quidnunc: mv .bzr  bzr.broken; mv backup.bzr .bzr
[02:45] <spiv> poolie: so the only_raises decorator appears to work well.  The test fallout from applying it to various unlock methods was pretty minimal.
[02:45] <poolie> ok
[02:46] <spiv> I've pushed up an update to that which adds a brief section to HACKING which tries to explain when to use it, and which exceptions to allow when using it.
[02:48] <quidnunc> poolie: I get "ERROR: No repository present" after doing that (bzr log)
[02:49] <poolie> k
[02:49] <poolie> what else is new with you?
[02:50] <poolie> what's in your .bzr now, quidnunc?
[02:50] <quidnunc> poolie: branch, branch-lock checkout, backup.bzr, branch-format, README, repository.backup
[02:52] <poolie> quidnunc: really? is this with an old bzr perhaps?
[02:53] <poolie> anyhow it looks like you have to restore repository.backup to being just 'repository'
[02:53] <quidnunc> poolie: dunno:  bzr://rudel.bzr.sourceforge.net/bzrroot/rudel/trunk
[02:53] <poolie> inside .bzr
[02:53] <quidnunc> poolie: Thanks, that seemed to work
[02:53] <poolie> i hope to work on making upgrade smarter soon
[03:57] <spiv> poolie: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/bzr/+bug/437626 has me stumped
[03:58] <poolie> ah
[03:58] <poolie> me too a bit, i've never seen that message before
[03:58] <spiv> lifeless and I wrote the code with that assertion.
[03:59] <idnar> so it's all you fault
[03:59] <idnar> *your
[03:59] <spiv> Hmm...
[03:59] <idnar> ;)
[03:59] <AfC> idnar: :)
[03:59] <spiv> I wonder if that assertion requires a stacked target to occur, which would suggest stacked branches locally.
[04:00] <poolie> so
[04:00] <poolie> can you reproduce it?
[04:00] <spiv> Hmm, yes, it's triggered by the target..
[04:00] <spiv> No, although I wasn't trying with stacking locally.
[04:01] <spiv> Although it would be a bit weird for "bzr branch" to produce a stacked branch locally.
[04:01] <spiv> I mean, it's possible to make that happen, but I'd be surprised if people had actually configured that.
[04:02] <spiv> I wonder if it's something like: "make shared-repo; make branch in it stacked on launchpad; make branch a new branch from launchpad".
[04:03] <spiv> i.e. perhaps doing a fetch for a non-stacked branch into a repo that was previously only used for stacked branches causes this?
[04:06] <poolie> oh, because it's creating effectively a situation with lots of ghosts?
[04:06] <poolie> because the repo is kind of hollow underneath the other branches?
[04:06] <poolie> could be
[04:07] <spiv> Yeah.
[04:07] <spiv> Just trying to reproduce that now.
[04:09]  * spiv blinks at the *five* bzr+ssh connections bzr branch --stacked -r1000 lp:~ubuntu-core-dev/upstart/ubuntu reports.
[04:19] <poolie> !
[04:19] <poolie> not so hot
[04:21] <mwhudson> impressive
[04:26]  * igc lunch
[04:43] <AfC> If an Ubuntu mirror is out of date, is there a central place to report that to?
[04:56] <poolie> afc, probably, but i don't know it off hand
[04:56] <poolie> maybe<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[05:18] <AfC> poolie: k
[07:42] <poolie> sending announcement soon...
[07:51] <AfC> It would really be better if the "Bazaar Explorer" thing wasn't used in the same sentence as "GNOME" on your website, as it not a (HIG compliant, GTK based) GNOME application.
[07:56] <spiv> Lots of hail.
[07:58] <vila_> hi all
[07:59] <vila_> poolie: yeah for annoucement :)
[07:59] <bialix> hello bzr 2.0
[08:00] <AfC> spiv: fun tip: if you throw an appropriate base image from Terry Hills radar into the Weather Applet's Preference -> General Tab -> "Enable radar map -> Use custom address for radar map" Address field, say http://www.bom.gov.au/radar/IDR714.gif its
[08:01] <AfC> spiv: automatically & always there when you pop up the weather Details dialog
[08:01] <bialix> 2.0.0 is announced! Hooray! it's finally happens
[08:01] <bialix> somebody, adjust topic of the channel please
[08:02] <Lo-lan-do> And it should even be in testing tonight :-)
[08:04] <bialix> in testing? what?
[08:05] <Lo-lan-do> squeeze
[08:05] <spiv> AfC: thanks!
[08:07]  * bialix singing and dancing
[08:50] <igc> bialix: pypi updated too btw
[09:17] <jml> what I would like, in bzr
[09:17] <jml> is a way of pulling all of my trunk branches when I come online
[09:18] <spiv> jml: yeah, that would be nice
[09:19] <jml> such a plugin would actually be quite simple
[09:19] <jml> I mean, having a single command to do this would be quite simple.
[09:19] <spiv> jml: I guess you could put a shell script in /etc/network/if-up.d/...
[09:19] <jml> hmm
[09:20] <spiv> There's probably a more desktop-oriented way to do the same thing that would actually run as your user.
[09:20] <spiv> Presumably triggered off a dbus event.
[09:20] <spiv> I know that empathy does stuff in reaction to online/offline state changes.
[09:23] <igc> jml: jam wrote a update-mirrors plugin you could use as a starting point
[09:23]  * igc dinner
[09:24] <jml> igc, thanks.
[09:24] <mrevell> Hey peoples of the Earth, if I put this in Launchpad's identi.ca stream does it make sense? "Yet more congrats to the Bazaar community! Bazaar 2.0.0 is now out! If you haven't already, try the new default repo format, 2a -- zoooooom!" I'm thinking particularly wrt the 2a format comment, obviously.
[09:25] <spiv> mrevell: by "make sense" do you mean "is it accurate", or "is it appropriate"?
[09:26] <mrevell> spiv: accurate
[09:26] <mrevell> spiv: Happy also to take comments wrt how appropriate it is, though :)
[09:26] <spiv> It seems accurate to me, but I'm not enough of a microblogging user to know if people following @launchpad would mind it or not.
[09:27] <spiv> I'd possibly not mention "2a" by name, just call it the new default repo format.  I'm not sure why I say that, though :)
[09:28] <spiv> I guess because users shouldn't have to care about that sort of jargon.
[09:28] <mrevell> spiv: Yeah, won't mention "2a" by name. As for whether people will mind, I think it'll be fine. I tweeted/dented the new bzr website and got a thumbs up back.
[09:28] <mrevell> cheers sp
[09:28] <mrevell> cheers spiv
[09:28] <igc> mrevell: LP users may also be interested in the "visual tours" we've put together in the last few days. See http://doc.bazaar-vcs.org/explorer/en/index.html
[09:29] <mrevell> Ah, thanks igc. I was planning to blog about bzr 2.0.0 on the LP blog ... I'll mention the visual tours there too. ta.
[09:29] <igc> mrevell: there's tours for GNOME, KDE, Windows and Mac OS X so that should help communities encourage casual contributors
[09:29] <mrevell> ah, very cool
[09:29] <spiv> mrevell: I suppose squeezing in a tiny URL to a 2.0.0 tour or release notes would be good too.
[09:30] <mrevell> spiv: Yeah, good point. I guess I can lose the "zooom" :)
[09:33] <spiv> mrevell: Aw, I liked the the zooom! :)
[09:34] <mrevell> spiv: heh :) I've changed it to "Bazaar 2.0.0 is now out -- congrats to the bzr community! The new default format gives faster & smaller repos - zoooooom! http://is.gd/3ZZ78"
[09:34] <spiv> mrevell: :)
[09:34] <mrevell> Okay, cheers guys, posted.
[09:55] <bialix> igc: many thanks
[11:08] <ddaa> So, 2.0 is out, so when people say "bzr is much slower than hg and git", we can say "no, not anymore with 2.0".
[11:08] <ddaa> Congrats for the release BTW.
[11:08] <ddaa> But where are the benchmarks we can point people at so they'll at least consider it?
[11:09] <ddaa> I'd love to be able to say more than just "trust me, it's fast now, yes, I know I it's the 5th time I say that"
[11:15] <Kinnison> Hmm, with 2.0 out, I might consider switching to packaged bzr instead of running bzr.dev
[11:15] <Kinnison> congrats guys
[12:44] <Lo-lan-do> ddaa: I'm still having the feeling that the periodical repacks take too long.  But maybe my hardware is too old.
[12:47] <lifeless> Lo-lan-do: are you running 2a?
[12:47] <lifeless> Lo-lan-do: and are you talking local or remote?
[12:47] <Lo-lan-do> I am.
[12:47] <Lo-lan-do> Local.
[12:47] <lifeless> Lo-lan-do: and do you have the C extensions?
[12:47] <lifeless> {2a is the format, not the bzr software version}
[12:48] <Lo-lan-do> Don't know.  Do the debs have them?
[12:48] <lifeless> they should
[12:48] <lifeless> if you have 2.0.0 it will nag if they don't
[12:49] <Lo-lan-do> It doesn't seem to be complaining.
[12:50] <Lo-lan-do> http://paste.debian.net/48296/
[12:54] <Lo-lan-do> lifeless: Does that sound extreme to you? Maybe it's some misconfiguration on my side…
[12:56] <Lo-lan-do> Hm.  A bzr pack of a similar repo only using rich-root-pack on faster hardware happens in 15 seconds.  I guess my desktop PC is to blame.
[12:57]  * Lo-lan-do tries to compare with really identical repos
[12:57] <lifeless> Lo-lan-do: rich-root-pack and 2a times are not comparable
[12:58] <Lo-lan-do> Yeah, which is why I'm scping the 2a repo to the fast server.
[12:58] <Lo-lan-do> It only has bzr 1.16.1 though.  Another skew.
[13:08] <lifeless> Lo-lan-do: so, 3 minutes, how many revs?
[13:09] <lifeless> Lo-lan-do: or, how big is .bzr/repository/packs
[13:09] <lifeless> Lo-lan-do: and note that autopack *doesn't* do as much work as 'bzr pack'
[13:10] <Lo-lan-do> 7662 revisions, 67M
[13:10] <Lo-lan-do> Good to know.
[13:16] <Lo-lan-do> Hm.  1.16.1 with better hardware does the bzr pack in 1m25s on modern hardware.  Better.
[13:17] <Lo-lan-do> Is it expected that branching from a rich-root-pack repo into a 2a one is slow too?
[13:25] <johnf> jelmer: you about?
[13:39] <spiv> Lo-lan-do: yes, doing that has to convert all the data.  It's basically the same as doing "bzr upgrade".
[13:42] <Lo-lan-do> I see.
[13:42] <Lo-lan-do> Ah yes, 2a to 2a is indeed *much* faster.
[13:42] <Lo-lan-do> I can live with that :-)
[13:42] <spiv> Right, because it can simply copy most of it, rather than needing to extract and re-compress everything.
[13:43] <spiv> (And extract from a slower format...)
[13:44]  * Lo-lan-do waits for everyone to have a 2a-capable client
[14:02]  * Lo-lan-do reads /etc/bash_completion.d/bzr.simple
[14:02] <Lo-lan-do> Would it make sense to cache the results of bzr commands?
[14:03] <mzz> I doubt it, for most of them
[14:03] <Lo-lan-do> Er, sorry, missing quotes.
[14:03] <Lo-lan-do> Would it make sense to cache the results of "bzr commands" (for completion)?
[14:03] <mzz> "bzr help commands" you mean?
[14:04] <Lo-lan-do> Yes
[14:04] <mzz> that sounds reasonable to me
[14:04] <mzz> however, plugins.
[14:04] <Lo-lan-do> Yes, and upgrades and so on.
[14:05] <mzz> for upgrades I'd expect just checking the mtime of the bzr executable used to suffice
[14:05] <Lo-lan-do> I guess I could stat /usr/bin/bzr and expire stuff, but it doesn't handle plugins.
[14:05] <mzz> but I haven't thought about that very hard :)
[14:05] <mzz> for plugins you could similarly track the contents of the plugins directories, but that's not entirely trivial and may not always suffice
[14:06] <Lo-lan-do> I'm thinking about a dpkg trigger that would regenerate a static file when installing/removing a bzr* package, but it wouldn't handle locally-installed stuff.
[14:06] <lifeless> I would cache within a shell lifetime, I'd hesitate to cache longer than that
[14:07] <lifeless> Lo-lan-do: it also wouldn't handle optional deps being added or other such things; the list of commands is turing complete
[14:07] <Lo-lan-do> Yay.
[14:07] <mzz> and for locally-installed plugins you'd have to recursively check if any subpackages got their files updated, iiuc.
[14:08] <Lo-lan-do> Right.  I'll probably go the simple way and cache within the shell's lifetime.
[15:41] <michaelforrest> I always type 'bzr commit -am "commit message"' when I'm switching between git and bzr a lot. I wish it didn't error.
[15:41] <michaelforrest> (bzr: ERROR: no such option: -a)
[15:42] <luks> see that git is doing to your branch? :)
[15:42] <luks> meh
[15:42] <luks> *brain
[15:43] <luks> it's hard to NOT type branch in this channel
[15:43] <mzz> michaelforrest: I rarely use git, but iirc you mean you want bzr commit to accept and ignore -a?
[15:44] <luks> can't you somehow set git to use -a by default?
[15:45] <michaelforrest> mzz: yeah something like that - I'd rather have git accept and ignore -a than set git to do -a by default
[15:46] <michaelforrest> (for some reason...)
[15:46] <michaelforrest> (maybe because I'm more likely to do incremental commits from the command line with git, whereas I'd use bzr qcommit  to do incremental commits with bzr)
[15:47] <michaelforrest> maybe that's crazy though. it would probably better to change git's defaults as per luks' suggestion..
[15:48] <mzz> I don't remember how difficult it is to write a bzr plugin that'd do this
[15:48] <luks> pretty easy
[15:50] <michaelforrest> having a go at writing a plugin...
[15:53] <luks> an evil version would be http://paste.pocoo.org/show/143301/
[15:54] <luks> but yes, it is crazy :)
[15:55] <beuno> michaelforrest, you want to add all files and commit?
[15:56] <michaelforrest> beuno: I just don't want the error when I accidentally type -am instead of -m
[15:57] <michaelforrest> beuno: I will have to risk bzr suddenly adding a command -a that does something very different to what git does (please let's not let that happen ;) )
[15:58] <beuno> michaelforrest, creating a plugin that adds -a and does nothing should be very close to trivial
[15:59] <michaelforrest> beuno: yeah that's what I'm doing.
[15:59] <michaelforrest> beuno: my plugin is called "git_cushion"
[15:59] <luks> have you seen the code I pasted?
[15:59] <beuno> michaelforrest, "lol"
[16:00] <luks> surely it's not nice, but I'm not sure if it's worth creating a nice solution for this
[16:00] <beuno> michaelforrest, let me know if you need help
[16:00] <michaelforrest> luks: yeah first I tried using my brain but then I just pasted your code in and it worked :)
[16:00] <michaelforrest> plugin created.
[16:00] <michaelforrest> sweet.
[16:39] <lifeless> bug 440631
[16:40] <lifeless> vila_: I find the description a little brief; perhaps paste in IRC conversations or something?
[16:41] <vila_> lifeless: ouch, you're in Sydney ?
[16:41] <lifeless> montreal
[16:42] <vila_> haa, you scared me :)
[16:42] <lifeless> as per my mail last week or so ;P
[16:42] <vila_> yeah, sorry, I remember now, I'm just bad at connecting dates and mails
[16:42] <vila_> ..unless I use my agenda that is :)
[16:46] <vila_> lifeless: updated
[17:04] <crisb> vila_: about 405745 - I thought there was no client thread in test_http_impl_urls?
[17:05] <vila_> crisb: .....
[17:05] <vila_> but you were talking about two threads no ?
[17:06] <vila_> ooooh, waitaminute
[17:06] <vila_> one main thread and one thread for the server,
[17:07] <vila_> crisb: the server is blocked in select(), the main thread blocks on close() ?
[17:07] <crisb> must be!
[17:08] <vila_> crisb: but what is the python interpreter doing ?
[17:08] <crisb> vila_: how do you mean?
[17:09] <vila_> if they are only two threads python is supposed to give control to one...
[17:10] <vila> now, the "dirty" part is that we are closing the socket from the main thread why the server is listening in the other thread... Does the police check such things ?
[17:10] <vila> the code police I meant
[17:10]  * vila don't want to trigger NSA loggers...
[17:10] <crisb> vila_: well the trouble is when I invoke pdb by sending SIGQUIT it causes the server thread to exit as select() returns, so I only see the trace from the main thread
[17:11] <crisb> vila_: but attaching with dbx I can see both of them hanging around
[17:11] <vila> crisb: yeah, the bug don't want to be observed... Schroedinger ?
[17:12] <Lo-lan-do> It's just shy.
[17:12] <vila> crisb: that's unknown territory to me but are you saying that you can see the python interpreter going in circles without releasing any of the threads ?
[17:12] <crisb> vila: yes its blocked on close() and select()
[17:13] <vila> I can understand blocked on select(), but not on close(), anything relevant from dbx ?
[17:14] <vila> wait a minute, what bzr version do you use exactly ? What code is before close() a simple shutdown(RW) or ?
[17:15] <crisb> this is bzr 2.0.0
[17:15] <jam> morning all
[17:15] <jam> hey vila, are you around?
[17:16] <vila> my right eye is writing a unit test for has_changes while my left one discuss the AIX hangs on server.close(), I'm all ears to you though :)
[17:16] <crisb> vila: and its using shutdown(RWRD), but i've tried changing it to just RW
[17:16] <jam> vila: just wondering about the status of https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~vila/bzr/selftest-fixes/+merge/10364
[17:16] <jam> (this is the --parallel stuff you were working on)
[17:16] <vila> crisb: no no, I meant a full shutdown, so both read and write
[17:17] <jam> I'm trying to par the review queue down a bit, and that is "needs fixing" from Robert but "needs review" overall.
[17:17] <crisb> vila: yes thats the original code
[17:18] <vila> jam: yeah, interrupt level 3 or 4, I need some setup for ec2 and I want to test ec2 by installing a windows host and I want a local windows host first, which is progressing sllloooowwwllly
[17:18] <vila> crisb: all right, so I don't understand why it accepts to shutdown (not blocking) but not to close...
[17:18] <jam> vila: so should I mark it "Work in Progress" ?
[17:19] <vila> and shutting the socket down should also unblock the select
[17:19] <jam> (sorry about the interrupt levels, I've been there myself)
[17:19] <vila> jam: good idea, I'll do if you don't
[17:19] <jam> done
[17:19] <vila> jam: thanks
[17:21] <crisb> vila: yes, plus looking at netstat and lsof output, the socket is still in LISTEN state!
[17:24] <Pilky> anyone know if there are any other sites for hosting open source bzr repositories besides launchpad?
[17:25] <vila> crisb: so something is wrong there.. can you see the comment in TestingHTTPServerMixin.tearDown ?
[17:26] <jam> Pilky: I thought Sourceforge and Savannah both would let you push code up. Certainly any sftp or ftp locations could be used.
[17:26] <jam> I'm not sure how much integration they have with code browsers, etc.
[17:26] <crisb> vila: yep!
[17:27] <vila> crisb: it's as if your python didn't realize it uses the same socket in both threads and can't propagate the shutdown from the main thread to the server thread....
[17:27] <Pilky> jam: I've used sourceforge before and it has similar issues to launchpad and savannah looks like it might be the same from first glance
[17:28] <Pilky> I'm looking more for something with the simplicity and usability of github/bitbucket
[17:28] <jam> Pilky: "similar issues" ?
[17:29] <Pilky> usability issues
[17:29] <jam> care to be more specific?
[17:29] <Lo-lan-do> Pilky: fusionforge has a bzr plugin now
[17:30] <Lo-lan-do> Slightly more usable than sourceforge and savannah, even :-)
[17:30] <Pilky> well basically I feel launchpad shows too much on each page without good separation, overcomplicates things and is just generally not easy to navigate or administrate
[17:31] <Pilky> jam: it's improved a lot over the past year or so, but it's still a long way off the likes of github and bit bucket
[17:31] <Pilky> Lo-lan-do: I'll take a look
[17:31] <Lo-lan-do> Doesn't do Launchpad's automated branching/tracking/merging/reviewing, but it has the advantage of being installable :-)
[17:33] <Pilky> hmm, seems better, but still not quite what I'm looking for
[17:35] <crisb> vila: the plot thickens! shutdown is throwing ENOTCONN :)
[17:35] <Pilky> I might have to look into seeing if it's possible to design a much simpler, more usable UI for launchpad while keeping the current feature set
[17:35] <vila> crisb: hmm, good, now we know why it's still listening !
[17:36] <Pilky> do it as a side project and then see if the launchpad team are interested in it at all
[17:37] <ddaa> Pilky: you probably should write stuff from scratch. Launchpad is massively complex because it intertwines different facets such as bugs, branches, questions, project registry, karma, etc.
[17:37] <ddaa> branches can be generated in 3 different ways (code imports, mirrors, hosting), etc.
[17:38] <vila> crisb: and is self.socket different from None ?
[17:38] <ddaa> the reason lp UI is complex is not because lp folks don't know what they're doing, it's because it does something complex.
[17:41] <crisb> vila: yes indeed
[17:42] <vila> crisb: ..... so it means we can't shutdown the socket before the first connection ? Thats' silly, how can we shutdown a server then 8-/
[17:45] <crisb> vila: hmm yes.  just check the fileno() in select() and shutdown() are the same
[17:46] <crisb> vila: both 5, so its not like the threads havent got the same fd
[17:46] <Meths> Where does bzr get its Platform string from on Windows?
[17:50] <vila> crisb: I more and more feel that we may be in a dead end here because AIX implements sockets differently...
[17:51] <Meths> Cool, you fixed bzr shelve on Windows with v2.0.0.  Thanks devs :)
[17:52] <vila> crisb: what I'm reading from a google search with "aix socket bug shutdown select" seems to indicate that shutdown() not interrupting select() is considered a bug by many (not sure that include AIX devs though... :)
[17:55] <vila> crisb: sorry I should leave, can you be there earlier tomorrow ?
[17:55] <vila> crisb: otherwise just add a comment to the bug with your last experiments... :-/
[17:56] <crisb> vila: sure, could we not just send the other thread a signal so select() exits?
[17:57] <jam> Meths: 'import platform'
[17:57] <vila> crisb: hehe, that's what shutdown is supposed to do !
[17:57] <jam> Meths: "platform.platform(aliased=1)"
[17:58] <jam> it is in the python standard library
[17:58] <Meths> jam: thanks
[17:58] <jam> I'm not 100% sure where it gets it from, but you could read the code
[17:59] <jam> vila, crisb: "if sys.platform == 'aix': os.kill(other_thread, SIGHUP)" ?
[17:59] <vila> jam: you can't kill a thread :-/
[18:00] <vila> jam: especially when it is in a blocking call...
[18:00] <jam> signal.sethandler(SIGHUP, IGNORE)
[18:00] <jml> or if it's a mailing list thread.
[18:00] <Lo-lan-do> Even with a Godwin point?
[18:00] <jam> os.kill(os.getpid(), SIGHUP)
[18:00] <Lo-lan-do> Damn, /me loses
[18:00] <jam> signal.sethandler(...)
[18:01] <jam> "if sys.platform == 'aik': self.knownFailure()" ?
[18:01] <jam> vila: ^^
[18:02] <vila> jam: I'm afraid we'll have to use that yes, but AIUI (crisb can confirm or not) that will be all http tests...
[18:03] <jam> vila: can you setDaemon() those threads so that it doesn't cause python to block on shutdown?
[18:04] <vila> jam: they are daemonic threads and that's why we have so many problems with thread/socket leaks
[18:06] <crisb> vila: isnt it naughty to be doing things on the same socket from different threads at once anyway? maybe thats why close() hangs
[18:06] <vila> jam: at least closing the server thread somehow guarantee that they will be gc'ed later, if we don't close that socket, we exhaust the threads/sockets far quicker, unless you run with --parallel=fork and workaround the problem, but you need some cores..
[18:06] <vila> crisb: well, now that it fails, you can say it's naughty :-) But AIX is the first to not be happy with that :D
[18:07] <jam> crisb: if you are allowed to talk to yourself via a socket, then it seems like it shouldn't be naughty
[18:07] <jam> you probably shouldn't talk on the same side in both threads
[18:08] <jam> I suppose it depends if it is considered 'allowed', but certainly it is used in places...
[18:08] <jam> (such as our test suite :)
[18:08] <crisb> :)
[18:08] <vila> jam, crisb: the clean way to resolve that will be to have a boolean ste to stop the server and explicitely connect once with a client that explicitly close its socket...
[18:08] <crisb> is it just python that wont let you kill threads?  i've used pthread_kill with SIGUSR1 as a way of unblocking other thread before
[18:09] <vila> crisb: yup, it's python
[18:10] <jam> crisb: looking here: http://docs.python.org/library/threading.html#thread-objects
[18:10] <jam> it looks like we have start/run/join, but no kill
[18:12] <vila> crisb: as jam said :-D
[18:12] <jam> http://www.velocityreviews.com/forums/t330554-kill-a-thread-in-python.html
[18:12] <jam> Interesting method
[18:12] <jam> basically hijacks the system 'trace' functionality to check at every line of execution if the thread should exit
[18:13] <jam> doesn't sound like it would help with select/shutdown, though.
[18:13] <vila> jam: indeed :-/
[18:15] <vila> but I think having the server loop check a boolean and replacing shutdown() by stop = True, connect(server.address) close() server.close() may work, I'll try that tomorrow
[18:15] <jam> vila: enjoy your evening
[18:15] <jam> do you have AIX to check?
[18:15] <vila> we don't care if neither the client nor the server understand what that last connection is about...
[18:15] <vila> jam: hehe no
[18:16] <vila> crisb: I don't think you can provide a VirtualBox VM with an AIX installed don't you ?
[18:17]  * vila really wants to trigger NSA or IBM lawyers here :)
[18:20] <kennethd> from launchpad, it looks like `bzr branch lp:mailman/2.2` should get me mailman's source, but it tells me: "ERROR: Not a branch: /home/kenneth/src/lp:mailman/2.2/"
[18:21] <LarstiQ> kennethd: what version of bzr are you using?
[18:21] <kennethd> 0.11.0 (from debian etch)
[18:22] <kennethd> is it too old for that format url?  is there another format url i can use?
[18:22] <LarstiQ> 0.11 is way way ancient
[18:23] <LarstiQ> kennethd: yes there is, but then your client likely doesn't understand the repository format used
[18:23] <kennethd> well, it is debian etch :)
[18:23] <LarstiQ> kennethd: so I'd recommend to upgrade bzr to something released this decade first ;P
[18:24] <LarstiQ> kennethd: you could try backports.org, or just install bzr by hand (you can run it from the unpacked tarball, do run make though)
[18:31] <Pilky> ddaa: true, I'll probably have to look into it at some point down the line, got enough stuff on my plate at the moment development wise
[18:32] <kennethd> LarstiQ: got 1.5 from the tarball, thanks
[18:32] <LarstiQ> 1.5?
[18:33] <LarstiQ> kennethd: that's a bit of a weird version choice?
[18:33] <Tak> note to self: never try to dpush a branch with multiple revisions
[18:35] <kennethd> oh, i didn't notice there's a 1.16 there too ... well, it is downloading mailman at least
[18:36] <jam> kennethd: and a 1.17, 1.18, and now 2.0.0...
[18:39] <LarstiQ> kennethd: yeah, 1.15 (1.5 too) should work well enough for that
[18:41] <kennethd> jam: oh, well i got the source from backports.org
[18:41] <LarstiQ> backports.org needs a packaging update
[18:41] <LarstiQ> jelmer: in case you have time, ^^?
[18:42] <jam> Lo-lan-do: did you see my review of your earlier patch?
[18:42] <jam> https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~jameinel/bzr/lolando-branch-root/+merge/12740
[18:42] <jam> I tried to send you the emails directly
[18:44] <Lo-lan-do> jam: Yes, I was just busy.  Will try to address your concerns sometime this week.
[18:45] <jam> Lo-lan-do: no problem, just cleaning out the review tracker a bit and that reminded me
[19:15] <lifeless> jam: lp merge re views update now
[19:15] <lifeless> so I don't think you need to resubmit stuff anymore
[19:16] <jam> lifeless: well, I also wanted to poke people to remind them that it needed reviewing, I could probably have done that a different way
[19:16] <jam> lifeless: did I hear correctly that you are in Canada now?
[19:17] <jam> (well, "this week" not specifically a move)
[19:18] <lifeless> this week
[19:18] <lifeless> yes
[19:18] <lifeless> Montreal
[19:19] <lifeless> jam: I'd remind people by mailing the list ;)
[19:19] <jam> lifeless: asking for a code review mails the list, too...
[19:19] <lifeless> jam: yes, but discards the old thread
[19:19] <lifeless> which is something I find annoying ;)
[19:20] <jam> well, for most I just asked for code review from 'bzr-core'
[19:20] <jam> that one I probably should have just done the same
[19:20] <jam> I don't remember specifically why I thought it was necessary
[19:23] <lifeless> :)
[19:25] <dwt> Hi there, I'm currently looking at the 2.0 release and I can't seem to be able to penetrate the nomenclature around it. For example, what is a rich-root repository format - and where could I look up stuff like this? (google seems unwilling to help...)
[19:25] <Pilky> dwt: I believe rich-root is mostly for use with subversion integration
[19:26] <Lo-lan-do> It was introduced for that, but it's been generalised since then.
[19:27] <mzz> the new default repository format (2a) supports rich-root
[19:28] <dwt> thanks for the answers - is there a way to get deeper information on what this means?
[19:28] <dwt> from what I've found it means the repository supports more metadata
[19:28] <mzz> I'd say "look at "bzr help formats" but it is unfortunately a bit stale in 2.0
[19:29] <mzz> afaik what it says about rich-root is correct, but it doesn't realise "some appropriate time in the future" has arrived
[19:30]  * dwt is reading bzr help formats
[19:41] <Peng_> Rich root formats give the root directory a file ID, just like every other directory.
[19:44] <dwt> Peng: Thanks!
[19:48] <jfroy|work> Is there API to run a specific command in bzrlib, or should I just allocate the command class and call its run method?
[19:48] <jam> jfroy|work: depends what you want, but there is "run_bzr()"
[19:49] <jfroy|work> bascially run a sequence of bzr commands w/o launching individual bzr processes (to avoid the cost of launching the interpreter and all)
[20:00] <jelmer> jfroy|work: hi
[20:00] <jelmer> ehm, sorry
[20:01] <jfroy|work> eh, hi :)
[20:01] <jelmer> jfroy|work: I was actually looking for johnf, but it seems he disappeared
[20:04] <Tak> jfroy|work: there's builtins...
[20:07] <jfroy|work> verterok: http://home.devklog.net/~bahamut/bzrexplorer.app.zip
[20:07] <jfroy|work> I consider it crude :p
[20:09] <Pilky> jfroy|work: that link doesn't work
[20:10] <jfroy|work> doh
[20:11] <jfroy|work> ok, let's try this again
[20:11] <jfroy|work> http://home.devklog.net/~bahamut/BazaarExplorer.app.zip
[20:11] <jfroy|work> ok that works
[20:11] <jfroy|work> Hacked up a quick bundle for explorer :|
[20:11] <jfroy|work> Kind Of Works™
[20:11] <verterok> jfroy|work: cool, using py2app?
[20:12] <jfroy|work> manually :p
[20:12] <Pilky> ah, thought it was going to be everything bundled up into one thing
[20:12] <verterok> jfroy|work: oh, I need to learn that :)
[20:12] <jfroy|work> well using Build Applet from the dev tools, then fixing it up
[20:12] <Pilky> so I didn't have to fight with all the QT stuff that doesn't want to install on my machine
[20:12] <jfroy|work> right, this only launches a user-installed explorer
[20:12] <jfroy|work> still need to bundle the rest with this
[20:12] <jfroy|work> Qt & etc.
[20:13] <jfroy|work> so it's not anywhere near done.
[20:13] <jfroy|work> just more convenient than running it from a terminal :p
[20:13] <Pilky> heh
[20:13] <Pilky> I might package up BazaarX this week, not had a crash since I refactored so it might be good enough to call 0.1
[20:14] <Pilky> and also start work on 0.2
[20:23] <dwt> any screenshots yet?
[20:27] <Pilky> dwt: http://dropbox.mcubedsw.com/skitchpics/BazaarX%200.1.png
[20:28] <dwt> thanks!
[20:28] <dwt> Looks nice so far - I'm looking forward to try it. :)
[20:29] <Pilky> only does add, commit and remove, but that's 90% of what most people do
[20:29] <Pilky> hoping to add move and possibly log in 0.2
[20:30] <crisb> jam: vila's suggestion about the AIX select()/ close() hang has worked :)
[20:32] <verterok> Pilky: I builded a PyQt installer for 10.5, but requires Qt installed (hopefully I'll upload it tonight)
[20:33] <Pilky> verterok: that would be useful if it also works for 10.6
[20:33] <Pilky> Qt installed fine, PyQT wouldn't install for some reason, kept complaining about QT's structure not being able to be verified
[20:34] <verterok> Pilky: I don't have 10.6 :(
[20:34] <Pilky> well, if it works with Python 2.6 I'd assume it would work fine with 10.6
[20:34] <verterok> Pilky: it depends on the system python...so it's a problem across all versions (10.4, 5 and 6) ;/
[20:35] <verterok> Pilky: the OS X python ins't the same as the python.org python, I can try to build it to get some feedback  :)
[20:35] <Pilky> sure
[20:36] <Pilky> jfroy|work: probably knows the internals better than me given that he did the 10.6 bzr installer
[20:44] <vila> crisb: passing around, what did you implement ? Which tests are passing ?
[20:49] <crisb> vila: the fake connect to get the select out and setting the boolean :)
[20:50] <crisb> vila: all tests from  bzr selftest -s bt.test_http -v now pass
[20:50] <vila> \o/
[20:50] <vila> \o/
[20:50] <crisb> vila: more details in 405745
[20:50] <vila> crisb: Congrats !!!
[20:50] <vila> bug #405745, ubottu, url please
[20:50] <vila> good bot
[20:52] <vila> crisb: excellent, can you publish a branch with your patch ?
[20:53] <crisb> vila: sure - do you know why its saying that one test is leaking threads? is that relevant at all?
[20:55] <crisb> vila: never mind, just tried it here on linux and its the same without the patch
[20:56] <vila> crisb: because the threads spawned by the server for the client connections are daemonic ones as well as the server thread itself,
[20:57] <vila> your patch un-hang it, but we didn't join()ed it, the gc will, later, get it back
[20:58] <vila> crisb: your patch address the root problem I had here. On top of it, I can now 1) collect the client threads, 2) close them properly and join them, 3) join the server thread......... 5) profit
[20:59] <vila> ... and get rid of the leaking tests, because if your patch works for http, it will also work for ftp so we will get rid of some other leaking tests there
[21:00] <crisb> vila: bonus!
[21:00] <vila> crisb: and *that* in turn, will allow the full test suite to pass again on OSX and gentoo and maybe even make some more progress on windows *without* resorting to the --parallel=fork trick
[21:01] <vila> crisb: so those three lines are really worth their bits on gold :-D
[21:01] <vila> aaaargh s/on/in/
[21:02] <vila> . o 0 (Once again the typo-gremlin attacked the joke)
[21:02] <crisb> vila: where's my cheque then ;)
[21:03] <vila> Please receive my gratitude and enjoy our full test suite in all its glory :-D
[21:04] <crisb> virtue is its own reward eh :)
[22:29] <poolie> hello vila
[23:14] <kenichi> what's the easiest way to see when a branch was branched?
[23:15] <beuno> kenichi, I don't think there's a good way of doing that
[23:16] <kenichi> beuno: i'm thinking of svn's --stop-on-copy type thing... nothing?
[23:17] <beuno> kenichi, I have no idea what that does
[23:17] <beuno> what information are you looking for?
[23:17] <poolie> hi beuno
[23:17] <beuno> a date, or a revision?
[23:17] <beuno> hey poolie!
[23:18] <poolie> kenichi: you can look at the branch nick in the log
[23:18] <poolie> there's no option to cut off the log at the point where it changed but that would be kind of useful
[23:19] <kenichi> poolie, beuno: thanks.  i can see in the log where the nick switches... but i have to hunt.  hmmm...
[23:22] <igc> morning all
[23:36] <poolie> hi igc