[12:12] <lifeless> ogra: the nfs mount offers the cdrom image only
[12:13] <twb> lifeless: you want to unite a read-only NFS root with a ramdisk?
[12:15] <ogra> lifeless, so you simply need ltsp with the chroot replaced by the iso image ?
[12:16] <ogra> do you need to loop mount it before the nf export or do we have it mounted anywhere visible (below the union) ?
[12:16] <ogra> s/nf/nfs/
[12:17] <twb> If you're talking about a read-only NFS root merged casper-style with a tmpfs ramdisk, debian-live currently does that, and I'm hassling Mithrandir to dupload my code so that feisty will do it, too.
[12:17] <twb> Currently, Ubuntu does not support it.
[12:18] <ogra> twb, actually the spec was about providing ltsp from a livecd ...
[12:18] <ogra> somehow it mutated ...
[12:18] <twb> OK, ignore me then.
[12:18] <ogra> whyt lifeless wants to provide is not the unionfs merged piece but only the iso ...
[12:19] <ogra> *what
[12:19] <twb> I see.
[12:20] <ogra> so your clients boot the iso like its attached locally ...
[12:21] <ogra> twb, yur code would enable real ltsp thin clients from liveCDs if i understand t right
[12:22] <ogra> (which is a very bad idea wrt disk access ... apart from demoing with a single client)
[12:23] <lifeless> ogra: I need what I've put together
[12:23] <twb> What my code does is allow up to, say, 100 1GHz diskless clients to boot from a single read-only NFS export.
[12:23] <lifeless> twb: yes, its casper. Read the spec
[12:23] <twb> And strictly speaking, it's not my code.
[12:24] <twb> Actually 100 is probably a rather modest ceiling for a 100baseT network.
[12:24] <ogra> 100 1 Ghz clients ? from a single CDrom ?
[12:24] <ogra> what kind of cdrom do you have attached there ? a 300x one ?
[12:25] <twb> ogra: what CD-ROM?
[12:25] <lifeless> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LiveCDShareThisCD
[12:25] <twb> It's NFS, not a CD.
[12:25] <lifeless> twb: ^ have you read that ?
[12:25] <twb> Oh, you want to boot the server off the same CD.  I"m not doing that.
[12:25] <lifeless> twb: eventually. Read the manual prototype down the bottom.
[12:25] <ogra> its a liveCD with the opportunity to booot thin clients from
[12:26] <lifeless> ogra: the point is that they are not regular thing clients, they are casper clients
[12:26] <ogra> which turned into a liveCD with the opportunity to boot full diskless workstations from ;)
[12:26] <ogra> lifeless, right
[12:26] <lifeless> ogra: so you can boot the machine, and then install locally
[12:26] <lifeless> and dont need any writable network area
[12:26] <ogra> yep understood
[12:27] <lifeless> now, in fact, for what I needed, booting the server off the ISO is irrelevant
[12:27] <twb> I don't understand why any of this is confusing.  I've been doing it with Knoppix for two years.
[12:27] <lifeless> but that spec was the best place to document what I did.
[12:27] <lifeless> twb: Its not confusing me ;)
[12:27] <ogra> neither me :)
[12:29] <twb> I wish people wouldn't use unbound personal pronouns on wiki entries.
[12:29] <twb> "For linux.conf.au I setup a machine that shared out a liveCD, perhaps called a LiveNetboot ;)."
[12:29] <lifeless> twb: thats me, sorry.
[12:30] <twb> lifeless: were you the guy asking for g3 mac keyboards on the luv list?
[12:30] <lifeless> nope
[12:30] <lifeless> fixed that to say who I am ;)
[12:31] <twb> Good, good.
[12:32] <ogra> twb, were you the guy i discussed the ltsp liveCD with one year ago in #ltsp ?
[12:33] <twb> I dunno
[12:33] <twb> Possibly.
[12:34] <lifeless> ogra: where I'd like to go from here is getting all the software changes done, so that doing this manually is easy: merging casper changes, adding the udevtrigger too, fixing pxelinux GFXBOOT support
[12:34] <ogra> look at ltsp-update-kernels for the pxe and tftp stuff
[12:34] <twb> lifeless: um, the syslinux people (who maintain pxelinux) are adamant that GFXBOOT is the devil, and you should use vesamenu instead.
[12:34] <lifeless> ogra: then while its still not automated, as long as we include the relevant packages on the livecd, you can manually do livecd sharing at a conference starting with just a livecd and no net
[12:34] <twb> ...just FYI
[12:34] <ogra> (and use a maintained tftp server :P)
[12:34] <lifeless> twb: I know
[12:35] <lifeless> twb: however, our isolinux is patched with gfxboot
[12:35] <lifeless> pxelinux shows splash screens ok, but doesn't show the graphical 'loading vmlinuz' progress bar
[12:35] <ogra> well, it shouldnt be to had to have some hardcded things you can force through a bootoption to get a running tftp server that offers you netbooting
[12:36] <twb> lifeless: really? I couldn't get it that far.
[12:36] <ogra> i heard grub2 should be able to do netboot but i never looked deeper ...
[12:36] <lifeless> twb: splash.rle and splash.pcx need to be in /
[12:36] <twb> lifeless: you mean in the tftp server's root directory?
[12:36] <ogra> that should be able to give you the progress bar
[12:36] <lifeless> twb: yes
[12:37] <twb> i.e. /tftpboot, typically
[12:37] <ogra> if thats no option you probably need to hack up gfxboot to be network aware
[12:37] <twb> I tried that and it still didn't work.
[12:37] <twb> ...IIIRC, anyway
[12:37] <ogra> oh, please use FHS compliant dirs ...
[12:37] <lifeless> twb: try with the edgy syslinux package copy of pxelinux.0 perhaps
[12:37] <ogra> /var/lib/tftpboot is the right one
[12:37] <twb> I apologize; I'm being forced to use RHEL against my will
[12:37] <lifeless> twb: its a single file :)
[12:37] <lifeless> twb: just copy it out ;)
[12:38] <Riddell> glatzor: hi, why do you ask about software-properties?
[12:38] <Riddell> glatzor: we do yes
[12:38] <twb> I tried it with the Debian syslinux package, because it was newer.
[12:38] <lifeless> twb: all I can say for sure is that if you follow the recipe I documented, it will work :)
[12:38] <twb> Fairy nuff.
[12:39] <lifeless> ogra: gfxboot is a patch to syslinux, need to find why the patch is not affecting pxelinux.0, but syslinux FTBFS for me
[12:39] <ogra> hmm
[12:40] <ogra> i know cbx33 worked with bootmenus in PXE and syslinux, try to catch him tomorrow :)
[12:40] <ogra> he probably knows more
[12:40] <glatzor> Riddell: since I am a co author. I offered you to write s-p in a desktop neutral way at Paris, since we reworked the user interface :)
[12:40] <lifeless> ogra: I've worked with them before :).
[12:41] <ogra> ltsp doesnt hide the uncompressing stuff ....
[12:41] <lifeless> ogra: had the hardware build process for embedded routers running stripped woody driven completely via pxe
[12:41] <ogra> it gets graphical once usplash kicks in
[12:41] <glatzor> Riddell: currently the code is very gtk centric.
[12:41] <lifeless> ogra: do you have the splash screen ?
[12:42] <lifeless> ogra: or no pretty stuff at all ?
[12:42] <ogra> on my thin clients ? yes
[12:42] <lifeless> ogra: yeah, the pxelinux one.
[12:42] <ogra> all the pretty stuff :)
[12:42] <lifeless> ogra: so you just dont have teh 'uncompressing progress bar' as a gui - you get ...... instead ?
[12:43] <Riddell> glatzor: times have changed a bit since paris, and the spec we were looking at then didn't happen, so for feisty the plan is to look at software-properties again
[12:43] <ogra> if you boot a thin client, you see the PXE transfer and after thats done initramfs kicks in with usplash
[12:43] <glatzor> Riddell: So generally I could move all the GTK parts to a not yet existing class SoftwarePropertiesGtk and make it an inheritance of SoftwareProperties
[12:43] <lifeless> ogra: right, we are agreeing vigourously
[12:43] <ogra> yep
[12:43] <Riddell> glatzor: that sounds lovely
[12:43] <Riddell> glatzor: did manchicken contact you?
[12:43] <glatzor> Riddell: do should also correct the spec :) it talks about system-properties and not software-properties by the way :)
[12:44] <glatzor> Riddell: not yet. mvo told me about your plan
[12:45] <Riddell> glatzor: I blame mvo for not reviewing it properly :)
[12:45] <glatzor> Riddell: the alias sounds funny :)
[12:46] <glatzor> Riddell: so manchicken will do the python-qt part?
[12:46] <Riddell> glatzor: he's looking at it yes
[12:47] <Riddell> glatzor: he has commented that it's quite tied to GTK
[12:47] <glatzor> Riddell: Ii changed a lot in software-properties recently. but the new bits are only available in my local repository, since we need some new build deps in ubuntu before
[12:48] <Riddell> glatzor: you don't have a branch on launchpad?
[12:48] <glatzor> Riddell: the source tree of update-manager ist already splitted.
[12:49] <glatzor> Riddell: AFAIK there is not even yet a product for software-properties
[12:50] <Riddell> ah, well that's a good start at least
[12:50] <Riddell> glatzor: make one make one!
[12:50] <ogra> isnt that part of synaptic ?
[12:50] <Riddell> ogra: it only maskerades as a part of synaptic
[12:51] <ogra> ah
[12:51] <Riddell> ogra: synaptic in ubuntu uses software-properties if it's installed, else it uses its own editor
[12:51] <glatzor> ogra: the source code of the software-properties is currently part of update-manager
[12:52] <ogra> ah, right, update.manager, not synaptic ...
[12:52] <glatzor> ogra: Riddell: there will be even a third package in the future: python-aptsources
[12:52] <ogra> glatzor, btw there is a new g-ss package up ... i think we should put the debian dir into bzr and on LP ...
[12:52] <glatzor> it provides the abstraction of the sources.list
[12:53] <ogra> yep, there is a spec for that
[12:53] <glatzor> ogra: oh, I am not so familiar with the specs for feisty
[12:53] <glatzor> I mainly work on my stuff :)
[12:54] <ogra> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/software-channels
[12:58] <glatzor> ogra: oh no. it abstracts the content of the sources. list :)
[12:58] <glatzor> this was a misunderstanding
[12:58] <glatzor> aptsources determines the current used distribution and which compoents and sub repository are used
[12:59] <ogra> ah
[01:00] <glatzor> Riddell: in which time zone does manchicken live?
[01:01] <ogra> woah, is there still the CC going on ?
[01:01] <sladen> win 103
[01:01] <dsas> ogra: Still a quarter of the member applicants to go through
[01:01] <mdke> whoa.
[01:01] <mdke> 103?
[01:02] <mdke> that's serious business
[01:02] <Riddell> glatzor: US I think
[01:02] <ogra> mdke, well, there was a significant backlog ...
[01:03] <mdke> yeah
[01:04] <mdz> BenC: are these "usbdev...resume from 0, parent...still 2" messages normal?
[01:05] <mdz> BenC: I see them when hibernating my thinkpad
[01:10] <alex-weej> is there ever going to be printed CDs for non-LTS releases again?
[01:10] <alex-weej> (for free :P)
[01:12] <ogra> the marketing gods might know :P
[01:12] <glatzor> Riddell: I hope that I can work on the desktop neutrality of software-properties next week. so it would be nice if manchicken could get into contact with me.
[01:12] <alex-weej> when is the next LTS due?
[01:12] <alex-weej> October?
[01:12] <glatzor> bye
[01:15] <Riddell> gnomefreak: great, I'll poke him
[01:50] <BenC> mdz: Never seen them before
[01:57] <Riddell> cjwatson, Mithrandir: fix to casper-reconfigure works well
[02:14] <mdz> BenC: OK, dmesg via mail or bug?
[02:15] <BenC> mdz: bug, to make sure I don't let it get lost in my inbox
[02:35] <mdz> BenC: bug 78634
[02:35] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 78634 in linux-source-2.6.20 "usbdev4.1_ep00: PM: suspend 0->1, parent usb4 already 2" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/78634
[02:36] <BenC> mdz: Thanks
[02:39] <sirpingalot> hey.. does anyone know of any Xwin equivalent of the console "dialog" command?
[02:41] <cge> sirpingalot: zenity?
[02:42] <sirpingalot> cge: hmmm.. looks like wht i'm looking for .. tnx :)
[03:31] <Nafallo> time to sleep
[04:10] <Hobbsee> anyone around?
[04:11] <_ion> Somewhat.
[04:11] <LaserJock> not that I know of
[04:11] <Hobbsee> i thought MOTU's were supposed to be able to post to ubuntu-devel
[04:11] <LaserJock> they should be
[04:11] <Hobbsee> i've just got an email that my message is waiting to be moderated
[04:11] <LaserJock> but I think you have to use your preffered email on LP
[04:11] <Hobbsee> you're kidding...right?
[04:11] <LaserJock> no
[04:12] <Hobbsee> you should be able to use any email that's linked to your gpg key
[04:12] <Hobbsee> i cant put my standard @ubuntu.com ro @kubuntu.org address in as the preferred address, because then LP breaks.
[04:12] <LaserJock> I think it uses your preferred email, but I could be wrong
[04:12] <LaserJock> actually, I'm not sure that it does break, now
[04:13] <LaserJock> I haven't tried to email -devel so I don't know if mine works either
[04:14] <LaserJock> cause I'm in the same situation you are in
[04:14] <LaserJock> me neither
[04:15] <Hobbsee> oh *neat*
[04:15] <LaserJock> you have 2?
[04:15] <Hobbsee> yes, hobbsee and hobbsee-ubuntu, as i had to take the @ubuntu.com address out of my normal account, but used it to uplaod
[04:46] <twb> Hmm, does casper clobber /etc/nsswitch.conf?
[04:50] <twb> ...or maybe my code isn't writing to it properly :-/
[06:23] <lifeless> twb: it shouldn't. You can see all of casper in /usr/share/initramfs-tools/
[06:25] <fabbione> morning
[06:25] <Hobbsee> morning fabbione!
[06:26] <fabbione> yo yo
[06:37] <twb> Has anyone gotten ldap authentication working on top of an netbooting casper system?
[07:19] <pitti> Good morning
[07:20] <_ion> 'ning
[07:21] <somerville32> :]
[07:31] <fabbione> Mithrandir: i am doing a refresh of some cluster packages.  You have ops :P
[09:42] <fabbione> jdub: <no comment/>
[09:42] <fabbione> somerville32: who is spamming?
[09:43] <somerville32> [04:40]  <somerville32> [Infeliz]  (i=Infeliz@adsl-85-217-21-167.kotinet.com): Kimmo Suokas
[09:43] <somerville32> [04:41]  <somerville32> [alumno03]  (n=alumno03@62-43-33-240.user.ono.com): alumno03
[09:43] <somerville32> [04:41]  <somerville32> It appears alumno01 and alumno02 are the same people as alumno03
[09:43] <somerville32> [/snippet from -ops]
[09:44] <mneptok> fabbione: what's the process for getting channel ops?
[09:44] <fabbione> mneptok: no idea.. i was given..
[09:44] <somerville32> fabbione: and Infeliz was swearing and telling people to stfu and stuff
[09:45] <fabbione> somerville32: did he stop?
[09:45] <mneptok> fabbione: mind throwing me a +o until one of the regular ops unidles?
[09:45] <somerville32> fabbione, He was just doing it minutes ago.
[09:45] <fabbione> mneptok: not at all.. not sure chanserv will allow you
[09:46] <mneptok> fabbione: we'll see. i'll annoy Seveas later.
[09:46] <mneptok> (well, "annoy more than usual")
[09:46] <fabbione> there
[09:46] <somerville32> Awesome. Thanks a bunch fabbione
[09:46] <fabbione> np
[09:47] <mneptok> fabbione: thanks. i'll keep watch until one of the regulars unidles.
[09:47] <fabbione> mneptok: sure.. no problem man
[09:47] <mneptok> grazie, padrone :)
[09:48] <fabbione> mneptok: non c'e' problema consigliere... e' tutto in famigghia
[09:48] <mneptok> si ;)
[09:53] <cjwatson> 18:38 < nixternal> cjwatson: the Ubiquity crash bug I filed that you just fix released (thanks btw), is this tied to the issue I have with alternate CDs not mounting the CDROM?
[09:53] <cjwatson> nixternal: no, different bug
[09:56] <cjwatson> Riddell: casper-reconfigure> excellent
[10:05] <jdub> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQ113000uQg <-- the warty dance
[10:06] <pitti> carlos: there is no edgy-updates tarball for today
[10:06] <carlos> let me check...
[10:07] <carlos> pitti: I think it's still running...
[10:07] <fabbione> jdub: OH MEN
[10:07] <pitti> carlos: oh
[10:08] <pitti> carlos: shall I move the cronjobs to a later hour then? It currently runs at 0700 rookery time
[10:08] <carlos> pitti: yeah, still running
[10:08] <pitti> carlos: alright, will check later then; thanks
[10:08] <carlos> pitti: I don't really know why... I have mine running at 8:45 (it should be rookery time too)
[10:09] <fabbione> jdub: how drunk were we?
[10:09] <pitti> carlos: oh, then I better move it to 1000 or so, otherwise I'll always use an old tarball
[10:09] <carlos> pitti: let me check again when the DB is ready and I will move my script start
[10:09] <pitti> carlos: that's even better; thanks
[10:09] <carlos> pitti: atm, Edgy tarball finishes around 9:30
[10:09] <somerville32> Is that mdz in the middle?
[10:10] <fabbione> somerville32: yes
[10:11] <mneptok> that cross-dressing woman on the right is *hot*
[10:11] <fabbione> mneptok: ahaha
[10:11] <somerville32> It is really too bad that I don't have sound with flash :/
[10:13] <somerville32> jdub: Whose the girl in the Ubuntu Videogram Screentest?
[10:13] <jdub> somerville32: you're not willing to guess? :)
[10:13] <mneptok> "Flash technolgies allow the seamless delivery of media-rich content to an arbitrary selection of platforms!"
[10:14] <mneptok> PIA! *WAUGH*!
[10:14] <somerville32> jdub: I rather not, lol
[10:14] <mneptok> *F I N I S H   H I M*
[10:20] <cjwatson> Mithrandir: ubiquity's in the queue now
[10:21] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: excellent.  I'll byhand the publisher once this run finishes.
[10:21] <jdub> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BoqZEZuUzhI <- hotel at first super secret debian startup meeting :-)
[10:22] <somerville32> ...
[10:28] <Mithrandir> pitti: is the new gnome-mount needed for herd 2?  It doesn't look like it.
[10:29] <pitti> Mithrandir: no, not crucial, thus I didn't ping you
[10:29] <pitti> but I wanted to upload it so that I don't forget it
[10:29] <pitti> can't hurt, of course, fixes two bugs
[10:30] <Mithrandir> oh, sure, it might be useful, but I'll leave it for now
[10:30] <pitti> ack
[10:33] <fabbione> cjwatson:
[10:33] <fabbione>    * Track silo-installer 1.07ubuntu2 changes (install device2obp, tweak
[10:33] <fabbione>      PATH).
[10:34] <fabbione> is there anything i can do in silo-installer to make it less manual for you?
[10:39] <somerville32> It appears the gtk2.0+ update has some serious regressions
[10:39] <somerville32> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gtk+2.0/+bug/78665
[10:39] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 78665 in gtk+2.0 "FEISTY: libgtk2.0 upgrade broke things in gtk apps such as mousepad and gedit" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]
[10:53] <carlos> pitti: I'm running my script now at 6:00
[10:53] <carlos> that should be 6:00 UTC
[10:54] <carlos> 2 hours and 45 earlier than before
[11:08] <dholbach> Mithrandir: the libgda2 is not urgent
[11:08] <Mithrandir> kthx.
[11:14] <dholbach> on the ppc server cd it fails to mount the CD :-(
[11:15] <cjwatson> fabbione: not really; I generally have to track changes to included source packages in ubiquity. it's not a problem
[11:15] <fabbione> cjwatson: ok.
[11:19] <Mithrandir> dholbach: that's fixed in the new d-i upload, but something went screwed there between the package and the archive, so building CDs fail on i386.
[11:20] <dholbach> Mithrandir: ahh thanks. I'll install edgy for now, so mvo can do some tests and try herd2 tomorrow again
[11:20] <pitti> btw, folks, I have been on ISDN all the day, so I cannot help with CD testing today; I'll start doing so as soon as my main network is back (I reported the problem this morning)
[11:22] <gpocentek> Xubuntu daily-live i386 worked fine, except bug #77978
[11:22] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 77978 in ubiquity "Crash before partitioning" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/77978
[11:26] <mvo> Mithrandir: we do not test the server in Testing/Current ?
[11:28] <incorrect> where would be the right place to talk about backports especially prevu ?
[11:29] <Mithrandir> mvo: we don't?  It's on the list, see ubuntu 10, 11, 11.1
[11:29] <mvo> oh, sorry
[11:29] <Mithrandir> :-)
[11:29] <somerville32> gpocentek, Do you know why there isn't there an Xubuntu test page?
[11:30] <gpocentek> somerville32: because we didn't wrote it?
[11:30] <somerville32> We're so slack ;]
[11:31] <gpocentek> :)
[11:31] <cjwatson> gpocentek: d'oh, thanks
[11:31] <cjwatson> Mithrandir: fix for 77978 is needed for Herd 2 IMO
[11:31] <somerville32> gpocentek, I'm going to whip something up
[11:32] <cjwatson> Mithrandir: so I wouldn't stress about publishing the current ubiquity in accepted
[11:33] <gpocentek> somerville32: thanks!
[11:34] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: oh well, ok.
[11:34] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: can you do the fix and get it uploaded then?
[11:34] <Mithrandir> I'll just turn the publisher back on auto again.
[11:35] <cjwatson> yeah, working on it
[11:38] <maxb> pitti: Hello. I found your contact info via launchpad. Would you possibly be able to review and give your opinion on apache2 bug https://launchpad.net/bugs/62748 when you have a moment? Thanks!
[11:38] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 62748 in subversion "2.0.55-4ubuntu4 update causes svn failure" [Undecided,Confirmed]
[11:39] <pitti> maxb: not really my speciality (rather Mithrandir's), but I can have a look
[11:42] <maxb> ah, right, just found you as uploader. Thanks for looking, though
[11:43] <pitti> well, I was the poor soul that requested the sync, yes :)
[11:44] <cjwatson> blink, something's very weird with python's tarfile module
[11:45] <cjwatson> Mithrandir: this d-i unpack thing is reproducible
[11:45] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: crack.
[11:45] <Mithrandir> just what we needed.  Good thing it's not release. :-)
[11:45] <cjwatson> tar.list() genuinely does stop at that point
[11:46] <cjwatson> there's another bug in the d-i handler I've noticed, but that's not this problem
[11:46] <pitti> last time I reported a tarfile bug upstream, it got fixed within a day, but I guess that doesn't really help us now
[11:46] <Mithrandir> I wonder why this suddenly surfaced with ubuntu10.
[11:46] <cjwatson> possibly because the names all got longer
[11:47] <cjwatson> the tar format gets strange for long names
[11:47] <cjwatson> well, I say "the" tar format. pick one.
[11:48] <Mithrandir> no longer than debian-installer_20060711ubuntu13, which presumably worked.
[11:50] <cjwatson> might have been an upgrade since then? dunno
[11:51] <Mithrandir> oh, true, drescher was dapperised some time back, wasn't it?
[11:51] <cjwatson> I'm waiting for it to download so that I can test it a bit more thoroughly
[11:53] <pitti> maxb: doesn't tell anything to me; is it still an issue in feisty with apache 2.2?
[11:55] <cjwatson> Mithrandir: I'd suggest leaving the publisher on byhand for the moment, TBH
[11:56] <maxb> I don't know. I don't really have a spare machine around to install feisty on to check.
[11:56] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: ok, disabled again
[11:58] <maxb> As far as the launchpad bug is concerned, I was really hoping for some sort of semi-official comment along the lines of "This is bad, we'll consider an edgy update" or "Oops, but we don't have the resources to test a stable update properly now that the world has moved on to apache 2.2"
[12:00] <cjwatson> maxb: I'd consider that for a stable update, if a core developer took it up and ran with it
[12:03] <dholbach> Mithrandir: the vte update is nice to have, but not urgent either
[12:06] <cjwatson> Mithrandir: ubiquity 1.3.10 in unapproved
[12:07] <maxb> In an ideal world, there'd be an apache2 stable update, but I can certainly respect that re-familiarising with apache 2.0 in order to do the necessary testing might be more trouble than it's worth. Either way it'd be nice to have an acknowledgement in the bug noting what the decision is.
[12:15] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: accepted; I'll byhand the publisher now
[12:34] <Riddell> Mithrandir: the CD build this morning didn't do kubuntu feisty desktop i386?
[12:35] <Mithrandir> Riddell: no, we found an interesting bug in python which made it blow up.
[12:35] <Mithrandir> Riddell: and ubiquity went AWOL in the queue, so until that's published, no need to test.
[12:37] <pitti> carlos: no ru tsclient.po in today's edgy-updates tarball :(
[12:37] <geser> Mithrandir: before I close bug #78550: are you happy with the description now?
[12:37] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 78550 in gnome-chemistry-utils "incorrect description" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/78550
[12:38] <carlos> pitti: fucking cache bug...
[12:38] <carlos> pitti: let me check with danilo whether he fixed that bug. I thought that wouldn't affect us, but seems like I'm wrong...
[12:38] <Mithrandir> geser: sure, looks good to me
[12:39] <Hobbsee> Mithrandir: blowing up python bugs?  COOL!!!
[12:39] <somerville32> gpocentek, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Xubuntu/Current
[12:40] <geser> Mithrandir: could you please give-back gchempaint? thanks
[12:40] <Mithrandir> Hobbsee: you have to love the tar file formats.
[12:40] <Hobbsee> Mithrandir: yep :P
[12:40] <Mithrandir> geser: given-back.
[12:40] <Mithrandir> Hobbsee: who needs more than 100-char long file names anyway?
[12:41] <Hobbsee> Mithrandir: hehe, exactly
[12:41] <Hobbsee> is jono the only moderator for ubuntu-devel?
[12:41] <elmo> no, the whole distro team is
[12:41] <Hobbsee> oh right.  if they could approve my post, i'd be greatful
[12:44] <heno> Mithrandir: what is the canonical place to notify people to start testing new builds? the wiki page, this chan?
[12:44] <heno> I mean Herd candidates
[12:44] <carlos> pitti: could you wait until tomorrow to do the language pack upload?
[12:44] <pitti> carlos: sure
[12:45] <carlos> pitti: seems like later today, the cache problem would be deployed in the server where we generate language packs
[12:45] <carlos> so tomorrow you would get fixed language packs
[12:45] <pitti> carlos: ok, I'll check out tomorrow's
[12:46] <Mithrandir> heno: I tend to ask for testing here, but it's not an ideal place.
[12:46] <Mithrandir> Hobbsee: approved.
[12:46] <carlos> pitti: thank you
[12:46] <heno> Mithrandir: perhaps we need a testing-announce list
[12:46] <Hobbsee> Mithrandir: thanks.  i'm still figting with LP over emails, and accepted stuff.
[12:46] <gpocentek> somerville32: great, thanks
[12:47] <Hobbsee> Mithrandir: apparently not all the addresses on the keys of -dev and -core-dev are allowed to post, just those in LP
[12:47] <Mithrandir> heno: email is kinda async, often images are like "please test $image" then five minutes later "or not, it's broken like $blah".
[12:47] <heno> right
[12:48] <heno> Mithrandir: the testing wiki page is kept reasonably up to date though right?
[12:48] <somerville32> gpocentek, np
[12:49] <heno> It should in theory always list the latest candidates
[12:49] <Mithrandir> heno: yes.
[12:50] <Mithrandir> heno: but it sometimes (like now) lists candidates that, well, aren't.  If people start caring about the versions there and taking them as cues to when to begin testing, I'll try to remove versions when they're known-broken
[12:51] <heno> cool, or mark them as known broken in some way until a new one is actually built, whatever
[12:53] <somerville32> elmo: Is there anyway I could check the status of my rt ticket?
[12:56] <elmo> somerville32: the RT interface isn't public I'm afraid, but you can ask a sysadmin, here on #canonical-sysadmin
[12:56] <ogra> Mithrandir, is there a blocking reason why there are no new edubuntu isos or are they just not there because i didnt request them yet ?
[12:57] <Mithrandir> ogra: they're not there because d-i is fucked ATM.  I could spin you livefs-es.
[12:57] <Mithrandir> (that was a question even with the lack of a question mark)
[12:58] <ogra> if they are known to be half way sane
[12:58] <Mithrandir> I believe they are
[12:58] <ogra> then shoot :)
[12:59] <Mithrandir> running
[01:00] <cjwatson> er
[01:00] <cjwatson> Mithrandir: Edubuntu needs the same ubiquity fix as is pending publication now ...
[01:00] <cjwatson> so livefses will need to be rebuilt anyway
[01:01] <cjwatson> Mithrandir: d-i is happy now
[01:01] <cjwatson> modulo mirroring and stuff
[01:01] <ogra> Mithrandir, uhm ... seems my edubuntu-meta upload from yesterday didnt end up on the CD ...
[01:02] <ogra> colins daily CD report still shows schooltool and lilo as broken ...
[01:02] <cjwatson> did you get a mail acknowledgement for it
[01:02] <ogra> drop the CDs for now, i have to look whats wrong after the edubuntu meeting
[01:02] <cjwatson> ?
[01:02] <ogra> i got an accepted mail ...
[01:02] <ogra> To<EMAIL_ADDRESS><EMAIL_ADDRESS>[01:02] <ogra> Subject: 	Accepted edubuntu-meta 1.23 (source)
[01:02] <cjwatson> it should end up on the next round of CDs, then
[01:03] <cjwatson> might not have been in the previous round, but that isn't important
[01:03] <ogra> looked fine to me
[01:03] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: press reload in your web browser.
[01:03] <Mithrandir> s/cjwatson/ogra/
[01:03] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: ah, point.
[01:03] <ogra> Mithrandir, i'm getting the cd healthreport by mail ...
[01:03] <cjwatson> ogra: the mailed report was based on CDs that don't matter any more
[01:03] <ogra> ah, ok
[01:03] <cjwatson> who cares if it wasn't on the *last* one :-)
[01:03] <Lure> Mithrandir: is it known that kubuntu daily-live i386 is missing?
[01:04] <ogra> then ignore my previous words :)
[01:04] <cjwatson> Lure: yes
[01:04] <Mithrandir> Lure: yes, it's a python bug which made a d-i upload blow up.
[01:04] <cjwatson> Lure: it should be fixed very shortly
[01:04] <Lure> cjwatson: ok, no pb will download then later
[01:08] <heno> Riddell: are you using this page for testing https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Kubuntu/Current or just https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Current
[01:08] <Hobbsee> heno: which one's better for us to use?
[01:08] <heno> I'd like to put them all on the form https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Current/*buntu
[01:08] <heno> so there is some consistency
[01:09] <Hobbsee> heno: sure, OK
[01:09] <heno> I'll move it there and just put a forward
[01:09] <heno> Riddell: please ACK when you are around ^
[01:09] <Riddell> heno: second one
[01:10] <Riddell> heno: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Current is the one I'd expect to be used
[01:10] <heno> Riddell: ok, I'm about to splitt that up into separate *buntus
[01:10] <Hobbsee> Riddell: i suspect that we're all using different sections of the wiki :P
[01:10] <heno> which is bad :)
[01:10] <Riddell> heno: good with me
[01:10] <heno> ok, cool
[01:12] <Mithrandir> Hobbsee: the tuxguitar licence bug seems to have been fixed in Debian, so feel free to reask for a sync.
[01:12] <Hobbsee> Mithrandir: right
[01:12] <incorrect> is this the right place to talk about backports especially prevu ?
[01:12] <bhale> incorrect: probably fair enough, but you need jdub
[01:12] <bhale> ugh
[01:12] <bhale> you need jdong
[01:13] <incorrect> jdub?
[01:13] <bhale> no.
[01:13] <incorrect> is that a package?
[01:13] <bhale> jdong is the person behind prevu
[01:13] <Amaranth> jdong is a person
[01:13] <incorrect> ah
[01:13] <incorrect> sorry
[01:13] <incorrect> my bad
[01:15] <Lathiat> ppor jdong ;)
[01:15] <Lathiat> *poor
[01:15] <incorrect> sorry i didn't know :S
[01:16] <jdub> heh
[01:18] <Hobbsee> incorrect: jdong.  and not here.  we dont deal in prevucrack here
[01:18] <Hobbsee> :)
[01:19] <incorrect> wibble
[01:19] <Hobbsee> wobble
[01:22] <Amaranth> hobbsee: I thought prevucrack was official stuff now
[01:23] <Hobbsee> Amaranth: i never heard that
[01:23] <Amaranth> official tool of the official backports team ;)
[01:24] <Hobbsee> ah
[01:24] <Hobbsee> dunno about that
[01:24] <Amaranth> either way, seems harmless enough
[01:24] <Amaranth> it just automates what the backports team does anyway, it doesn't hack packages to work on older versions or anything
[01:25] <Hobbsee> heno: i moved the content of /testing/kubuntu/current to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Current/Kubuntu - hope that's what you wanted to do
[01:25] <Hobbsee> Amaranth: true.  i've just seen people attempt to backport crack with it :P
[01:25] <Hobbsee> like, dbus, then whine that the deps dont work
[01:26] <Amaranth> but that crack ftbfs so it's all good :)
[01:26] <heno> Hobbsee: Yes, I was merging if from Testing/Current too. I think we even had an edit conflict :)
[01:26] <Amaranth> someone i know tried using it to backport hal and dbus and rhythmbox to dapper for ipod support
[01:26] <Hobbsee> heno: argh, sorry!
[01:26] <Hobbsee> Amaranth: yeah.  silly people.
[01:27] <heno> np
[01:27] <Hobbsee> Amaranth: and someone tried to backport the feisty kernel to dapper with prevu
[01:27] <Amaranth> *headdesk*
[01:27] <thom> rofl
[01:28] <Hobbsee> hehe
[01:28] <Hobbsee> hey thom
[01:28] <Hobbsee> Amaranth: which is why i would suggest that they should have kept prevu private
[01:28] <Amaranth> as long as it doesn't _do_ it i don't see the harm
[01:29] <Amaranth> i think the hope is people will try it on their own before filing a bug asking for it
[01:29] <cjwatson> it can't without archive admin approval, which wouldn't be given
[01:29] <Hobbsee> cjwatson: was that related to kernels and the like?
[01:29] <Hobbsee> Amaranth: true.
[01:29] <Amaranth> although if they do that and it works i bet they wouldn't file a bug
[01:44] <Hobbsee> evening sabdfl
[01:47] <cjwatson> Hobbsee: regarding direct uploads from prevu to *-backports
[01:47] <cjwatson> i.e. Amaranth's comment "as long as it doesn't _do_ it"
[01:48] <Hobbsee> cjwatson: ahh, right
[01:58] <sabdfl> hi Hobbsee
[01:59] <Hobbsee> :)
[02:07] <jdub> sabdfl: oh, you might dig some of the old school videos i put up on youtube -> youtube.com/jeffwaugh
[02:07] <jdub> happy memories
[02:07] <Treenaks> http://foodfight.org/movies/Ubuntu%20Fanpeople/Jeff%20Waugh.ogg
[02:08] <jdub> oh yeah!
[02:08] <jdub> dude, can i put that up?
[02:08] <jdub> it'll go well with the other one :)
[02:09] <Treenaks> jdub: sure
[02:09] <sabdfl> jdub: damn, that JUST PLAYED!
[02:09] <sabdfl> (plus it's a cool vid ;-))
[02:10] <jdub> i think that's 'cos treenaks has something special on his site -- cortado?
[02:10] <Treenaks> jdub: no
[02:10] <Treenaks> jdub: it's just ogg files with the right mime-type
[02:10] <sabdfl> is that some sort of feisty ogg player plugin we install?
[02:10] <jdub> ah, so it does the proper totem plugin foo
[02:11] <jdub> yes, totem is now fully awesome
[02:11] <Treenaks> sabdfl: There is a totem-firefox-plugin thing that works really great in edgy (and feisty) for me
[02:11] <jdub> it mimics quicktime and wmp
[02:11] <jdub> RAW POWER.
[02:13] <Treenaks> I'm having some sound problems on amd64 though
[02:13] <Treenaks> But that bug is going to be fixed :)
[02:19] <Mithrandir> *sigh*; powerpc still oversized.
[02:24] <EmxBA> (msg sabdfl there?
[02:24] <EmxBA> :)
[02:28] <Hobbsee> Mithrandir: the biggest package?
[02:28] <Mithrandir> Hobbsee: ooo? :-P
[02:28] <Hobbsee> Mithrandir: there's a good start
[02:29] <Hobbsee> Mithrandir: the logic being, that if you throw off one of the biggest ones, you wont have to deal with ppc being oversized again for a long while :D
[02:29] <Mithrandir> Hobbsee: that's a nice theory.
[02:32] <jdub> Treenaks: hrm, what's the original date on that sucker? :)
[02:33] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: got any suggestions?  I've gone through the list of changes from herd1 and there's nothing which has really changed there, just new versions, etc.
[02:33] <alex-weej> is feisty+1 LTS?
[02:33] <alex-weej> and can i order some free CD's NOW so i'm first in line? :P
[02:33] <Mithrandir> alex-weej: it has not been announced, but my personal guess is no.
[02:34] <mneptok> alex-weej: the official Canonical crystal ball is out being cleaned ATM ;)
[02:34] <alex-weej> hehe
[02:34] <alex-weej> the printed CD's were a great way to convince would-be users that ubuntu isn't just some bedroom project
[02:36] <mneptok> (even though it is)
[02:36] <mneptok> oops. inside voice, mnep. :/
[02:36] <Hobbsee> mneptok: even though it is what?
[02:36] <thom> hah.
[02:37] <mneptok> Hobbsee: a "bedroom project," Miss Sexy.
[02:37] <Treenaks> jdub: probably 2005-10-18 (as it was my birthday..)
[02:37] <Hobbsee> mneptok: oh, right.  thought you were saying it was a LTS.
[02:37] <Hobbsee> mneptok: and no, i'm not interested in your bedroom.
[02:37] <mneptok> it is, if LTS = Let's Talk *SEXY*!
[02:38] <mneptok> Hobbsee: you are obviously a woman of taste and discretion ;)
[02:38] <Hobbsee> mneptok: :P indeed
[02:39] <jdub> Treenaks: :)
[02:39] <Hobbsee> poor mneptok
[02:40] <mneptok> Hobbsee: my cup of insincerity is already full, but thanks anyway :)
[02:41] <Hobbsee> :P
[02:42] <mneptok> jdub: ping
[02:43] <jdub> mneptok: pong
[02:43] <mneptok> jdub: mind a /query ?
[02:45] <jdub> mneptok: ok
[02:45] <cjwatson> alex-weej: no future LTS schedule has been set yet
[02:51] <Mithrandir> please test i386 and amd64 alternate ubuntu cds.
[02:51] <Mithrandir> (PPC is going for a respin soon)
[02:52] <pitti> Riddell: I'm sure that there was a bug for the recent 'hal upgrade kills automounting for users with the 3rd party KDE packages'. bug 74236 is a dup of that, but I cannot find the original one; do you happen to know it?
[02:52] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 74236 in hal "Kubuntu: HAL doesn't automount USB devices on KDE 3.5.5" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/74236
[02:57] <Riddell> pitti: https://launchpad.net/bugs/72869
[02:57] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 72869 in kdebase "Latest hal update breaks USB stick mounting in kubuntu dapper kde 3.5.5" [Undecided,Confirmed]
[02:57] <Riddell> pitti: I did make an updated hal version for that archive but the guy who was poking me never got back to confirm it
[02:57] <pitti> Riddell: ah, splendid; thank you!
[03:00] <Keybuk> is there any way to start f-spot without dbus?
[03:05] <Mithrandir> -desktop and -alternate ready, all arches.
[03:05] <Mithrandir> Riddell: doing kubuntu live ISOs now, livefs-es built fine
[03:06] <Mithrandir> ogra: building edubuntu livefs-es now.
[03:06] <ogra> yay
[03:06] <ogra> alternate isos would also be fine if they work now ...
[03:07] <Mithrandir> ogra: yeah, going to once the kubuntu live ones are finished.  No point in competing for IO on lithium
[03:07] <ogra> yep
[03:07] <ogra> i didnt want to be pushy ;)
[03:14] <jdong> incorrect: if you still need to talk about prevu, we can take it to #ubuntu-motu
[03:14] <incorrect> thanks jdong
[03:16] <Mithrandir> Riddell: shiny new -desktop images for you
[03:16] <Riddell> ooh, thanks Mithrandir
[03:22] <seb128> pitti: it looks like there is no -dbgsym for -proposed, is that a known "could be better"? ;)
[03:23] <jdong> what are the chances that feisty's HAL would work with Edgy?
[03:23] <jdong> I wanna test the patch for bug 60989 but don't have a feisty install on the particular machine
[03:23] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 60989 in hal "HAL reports incorrect battery percentages" [Undecided,Needs info]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/60989
[03:23] <Mithrandir> Riddell: shiny alternate too.
[03:23] <Mithrandir> ogra: edubuntu install spinning
[03:24] <Riddell> bling bling
[03:24] <Hobbsee> bling!
[03:33] <Mithrandir> ogra: install CDs for you; please test.
[03:34] <bddebian> Heya
[03:44] <heno> Mithrandir: Mind if I move the Ubuntu matrix to a sub-page too or is this a bad time?
[03:45] <Mithrandir> heno: feel free
[03:45] <bddebian> Mithrandir: Hi, sorry bug you again, but I'm not sure if you ever got a chance to get back to me about what to do about libparagui?
[03:46] <Mithrandir> bddebian: you need to make sure the LGPL and the GPL are in the orig.tar.gz.
[03:46] <Mithrandir> easiest way is to get upstream to add them
[03:47] <bddebian> That's what I was afraid of.  Thanks.  They just need to add it to COPYING?
[03:47] <Mithrandir> iirc, the copying file there was nonexistent or just contained the gpl blurb, didn't it?
[03:48] <bddebian> Aye, just gpl
[03:48] <pitti> jdong: just building the source on edgy should work
[03:48] <Mithrandir> if it goes in a new file or COPYING or LICENCE or something else isn't something I care that much about.  The main point it needs to be there.
[03:48] <pitti> seb128: it seems that the relevant buildd chroot does not have pkg-create-dbgsym installed
[03:49] <Mithrandir> ogra: live images ready too
[03:49] <seb128> pitti: iz infinity bog then? ;)
[03:49] <pitti> seb128: yes
[03:49] <seb128> ok, ta
[03:51] <ogra_> Mithrandir, TA, rsyncing ...
[03:52] <jdong> pitti: ok, cool, thanks
[03:53] <jdong>  -> Cannot install libvolume-id-dev;
[03:53] <jdong> what's the edgy name for that again?
[03:54] <jdong> libvolumeid-dev, nvm
[03:59] <iwj> seb128: Have you seen the mails between Tim Mueller and me ?  I wondered if you had a comment about what order to ship this stuff in.
[04:01] <crimsun> Mithrandir: please respin xubuntu (daily + daily-live) at your convenience, thank you
[04:02] <seb128> iwj: hi, yes, I've read those mails. The logical order seems to be to patch gstreamer0.10 and gst-plugins-base0.10 fisrt. Then g-a-i, totem, etc can be updated
[04:02] <seb128> no?
[04:03] <jdong> pitti: the hal patch works, awesome :)
[04:03] <pitti> jdong: !
[04:03] <pitti> jdong: that's great
[04:03] <Riddell> Mithrandir: the kubuntu desktop CDs don't seem to have cjwatson's casper patch
[04:03] <seb128> slomo: around?
[04:03] <jdong> pitti: heck yeah, you bet it is :) no more rebuilding hal for us :)
[04:03] <jdong> pitti: is the patch trivial enough for a SRU?
[04:04] <pitti> jdong: not really trivial
[04:04] <seb128> iwj: we should probably do a CVS snapshot for gstreamer and gst-plugins-base0.10, that's the easiest way
[04:04] <jdong> :(
[04:04] <jdong> pitti: how often does HAL get hit with some sort of security bug
[04:04] <seb128> iwj: we will have new version before feisty so that's not an issue to have a snapshot packaged for now
[04:05] <pitti> jdong: no security updates so far
[04:05] <jdong> ok, cool
[04:05] <jdong> well, it needed a libvolumeid-dev build-dep rename
[04:05] <jdong> so a developer has to upload it to edgy-backports
[04:05] <pitti> jdong: but the issue is that intrusive patches need proper testing, so if you think about sneaking in the patch into some security update, I have to disappoint you
[04:05] <jdong> no, I wasn't thinking to sneak it into a security update
[04:06] <jdong> I was more weighing on the risks of backporting it
[04:06] <pitti> ah, I see
[04:06] <pitti> jdong: I can add the alternative build-dep if you want me
[04:06] <jdong> pitti: yes, that'd be very helpful, thanks :)
[04:06] <pitti> jdong: I have some fixes pending in bzr head anyway, I'll upload them after the herd-2 freeze
[04:07] <jdong> cool
[04:07] <iwj> seb128: OK.  Do you want to do that or do you want to leave it to me ?  If you have a standard approach it's probably better if you do it, but I'm happy to attack it myself.
[04:07] <geser> Mithrandir: Please give-back kdesvn. Thanks
[04:07] <iwj> OK, I give up.  How do I do, in Python, the equivalent of strtoul(,,0) ?
[04:07] <pitti> jdong: libvolume-id-dev | libvolumeid-dev -> that looks correct?
[04:07] <seb128> iwj: I can do it
[04:07] <iwj> seb128: Thanks very much.
[04:07] <seb128> np
[04:08] <jdong> pitti: yes sir
[04:08] <seb128> I've to upload the libgimme-codec thing too
[04:08] <iwj> Do we have local patches to gstreamer packages ?
[04:08] <Hobbsee> who would i ask about libdvdread3?
[04:08] <iwj> We need to add dh_gstscancodecs to gstreamer-tools.
[04:09] <iwj> dh_gstscancodecs> currently sat around on my disk here.
[04:09] <pitti> jdong: committed; thanks for testing!
[04:09] <jdong> no prob :)
[04:09] <Riddell> geser: what's up with kdesvn?
[04:09] <slomo> seb128: one moment
[04:09] <Nafallo> Hobbsee: ask and see who answers? :-)
[04:10] <seb128> iwj: not that many, we have a few of them for ltsp and sinks priorities to use by example
[04:10] <seb128> adding a new patch is fine
[04:10] <geser> Riddell: the last try to build failed because subversion was old
[04:10] <seb128> iwj: could you mail me that patch?
[04:10] <iwj> seb128: OK.
[04:10] <ogra_> seb128, i belive the ltsp gstreamer patches are actually dropped now ...
[04:11] <Hobbsee> Nafallo: true.  trying to see if there's any interest in it.  (keeping one of our patches, instead of saying "if you want libdvdcss2, use an unofficial repo, like debian multimedia)
[04:11] <Nafallo> Hobbsee: I like that script back fwiw ;-)
[04:11] <ogra_> (if now, we can drop them as soon as pulse is approved for main and moved)
[04:11] <seb128> ogra_: that was some random example, the point is that we have a few patches and having an extra one is no problem :)
[04:11] <ogra_> s/now/not/
[04:11] <ogra_> seb128, yeah ...
[04:11] <slomo> ogra_, seb128: the only patches left are priority setting of sinks... i.e. pulse > alsadmix > esd > alsa ...
[04:11] <Hobbsee> Nafallo: me too -but i didnt want to reintroduce it without someone saying something about it first.  besides, i'd need a sponsor
[04:12] <seb128> slomo: ok
[04:12] <ogra_> slomo, well, i'm not yet sure if i use plain pulse or pulses alsa emulation layer for ltsp ... probably the pulse stuff can be dropped as well
[04:12] <slomo> oh, and a patch for biarch by doko
[04:13] <seb128> slomo: ok
[04:13] <iwj> seb128: YHM.
[04:13] <slomo> ogra_: well it makes sense this way even if you don't use pulse imho... as people who have pulse isntalled will get this used, other's don't see a difference
[04:13] <crimsun> ogra_: I'd have a wishlist request for pulse that I'll work on shortly (fixing .desktop Comments and) possibly hiding the unnecessary components
[04:13] <iwj> seb128: Also we have to change some of the gstreamer plugin packages to call dh_gstscancodecs.
[04:13] <ogra_> crimsun, great ...
[04:14] <iwj> The only one which g-a-i can install atm is -ugly, and I have a tiny diff for that.  Do you want that too ?
[04:14] <sivang> dh_getscancodecs... yummy
[04:14] <seb128> slomo: we need CVS snapshots for gstreamer0.10 gst-plugins-base0.10 and some patching, I'll work on that if that's fine with you
[04:14] <iwj> s/getscan/gstscan/
[04:14] <ogra_> slomo, well, i'm only saying that i wont be the one that forces the patches to stay for ltsp :)
[04:14] <seb128> iwj: yes please
[04:15] <slomo> seb128: sure, that's fine
[04:15] <crimsun> ogra_: how does hiding the menu entries for most desktop entries (since one really only needs the applet) sound to you?
[04:15] <seb128> slomo: ok, thank you
[04:15] <ogra_> crimsun, how evil do you consider using /etc/asound.conf with
[04:15] <ogra_> pcm.!default {
[04:15] <ogra_>         type pulse
[04:15] <ogra_> }
[04:15] <ogra_> ctl.!default {
[04:15] <ogra_>         type pulse
[04:15] <ogra_> }
[04:15] <ogra_> ??
[04:15] <ogra_> crimsun, sounds good ...
[04:16] <slomo> seb128: but be aware that the cvs snapshots use -Werror... might be that stuff fails to build on some archs or after some random library update, no idea
[04:16] <crimsun> ogra_: not at all evil; that's what I added (well, per-user) to asoundconf in the most recent alsa-utils upload
[04:16] <iwj> seb128: Oh, re that patch: since it edits a Makefile.am you have to run automake too.
[04:16] <ogra_> ah, cool but we wont have a package providing a system /etc/asound.conf ?
[04:16] <seb128> slomo: don't worry, I've already packaged CVS snapshots and that's feisty, we can fix things ;)
[04:16] <iwj> seb128: But the patch I sent you doesn't include the results of running automake.
[04:17] <crimsun> ogra_: currently we don't; asoundconf only touches per-user asoundrcs and not the system-wide /etc/asound.conf
[04:17] <seb128> iwj: ok, noted
[04:17] <ogra_> crimsun, perfect ... then ltsp-client can install it in the client chroot and i'm set :)
[04:17] <crimsun> ogra_: great :)
[04:17] <crimsun> ogra_: oh, that will require the promotion of libasound2-plugins, btw
[04:18] <ogra_> oki, i'll wirte a MIR
[04:18] <crimsun> great, thanks!
[04:18] <ogra_> *write
[04:18] <iwj> seb128: YHAM
[04:19] <ogra_> crimsun, eeek ... "Depends: libasound2 (>> 1.0.12), libc6 (>= 2.5-0ubuntu1), libjack0.100.0-0 (>= 0.101.1) ..."
[04:19] <crimsun> ogra_: hmm, that's kinda nasty, since it pulls in libjack0.100.0-dev
[04:19] <ogra_> can we compile it without jack without breaking it ?
[04:20] <seb128> iwj: "YHAM"? what does that one mean? ;)
[04:20] <crimsun> ogra_: we could try dropping the jack plugin
[04:20] <ogra_> i'll do a test compile if i'm done with iso testing
[04:20] <iwj> You Have Another Mail :-).
[04:20] <seb128> ah ok ;)
[04:21] <iwj> seb128: Thanks for your help.
[04:21] <seb128> np
[04:21] <dholbach> can we make a new policy: everybody who uses an abbreviation and it's not in /usr/bin/wtf will patch bsdgames to include it? ok? ;-)
[04:21] <seb128> I'll have a look on that and let you know if I need anything else
[04:21] <iwj> seb128: Right.
[04:22] <iwj> seb128: (I'm not very IRC-attentive right now so if you don't get me on IRC try email or feel free to phone +44 1223 561028 and we can continue on IRC or I can phone you back.)
[04:22] <seb128> iwj; ok, noted, thank you
[04:22] <Nafallo> dholbach: is it in universe? ;-)
[04:23] <dholbach> Nafallo: yes
[04:23] <Nafallo> nice :-)
[04:34] <ogra_> feisty-live-i386.iso            10-Jan-2007 14:42  699M
[04:35] <ogra_> geez, i didnt even notice that ... living on the edge :)
[04:35] <crimsun> ogra_: http://www.sh.nu/~crimsun/alsa-plugins/alsa-plugins_1.0.13-3ubuntu1_source.changes  (builds & works fine)
[04:36] <ogra_> crimsun, do you think we need to split the package to still provide an libasound2-plugins-jack ?
[04:36] <ogra_> or do we simply not care ?
[04:36] <ogra_> (i personally don care, but ubuntustudio might get unhappy)
[04:37] <heno> jdong: see new version of the testing guide
[04:37] <heno> http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=331123
[04:37] <crimsun> ogra_: I'll have a chat with the ubuntustudio folks; I don't see the jack alsa-lib plugin being all that serious since jackd -d alsa -d hw:foo would be used anyway, bypassing said plugin
[04:37] <ogra_> ah, cool ...
[04:44] <iwj> Today's my day for programming questions.  Maybe some pygtk expert can help me.  I have a program which is basically a subclass of SimpleGladeApp.  I want to be able to set it to be transient for some other application whose XID I know.
[04:44] <iwj> I can find the gtk.Window for the application and call set_transient_for, but gtk.Window.set_transient_for expects a gtk.Window.
[04:44] <iwj> I can make a gtk.gdk.Window out of an XID with gtk.gdk.window_foreign_new.
[04:45] <iwj> But I don't seem to be able to (1) find the gtk.gdk.Window inside a gtk.Window or (2) construct a gtk.Window which is just a wrapper around a gtk.gdk.Window.
[04:46] <jc-denton> hi all
[04:47] <jc-denton> hi all
[04:47] <jc-denton> i tried to compile 2.6.19 with the ubuntu .config
[04:47] <jc-denton> however it does not find the root fs
[04:48] <jc-denton> i thought first that i just have to compile the ide driver in the kernel instead of as module
[04:48] <pitti> jc-denton: you need a matching initramfs
[04:48] <jc-denton> i think so too
[04:48] <jc-denton> how can i do that
[04:48] <jc-denton> i never used initramfs
[04:48] <pitti> jc-denton: or additionally compile in the file systems you need
[04:48] <pitti> jc-denton: but that's really an #ubuntu question, btw
[04:49] <pitti> jc-denton: please look at update-initramfs(8) and followup in #ubuntu
[04:49] <jc-denton> ah the file systems are also as module
[04:49] <jc-denton> heh
[04:50] <jc-denton> thx
[04:50] <jc-denton> i just ask here
[04:50] <jc-denton> cos people on #ubuntu don't have a clue normally
[04:50] <jc-denton> ext2 and 3 is in the kernel
[04:52] <cjwatson> iwj: (1) there's a gtk.gdk.Window for each widget, so it's listed in the gtk.Widget docs
[04:52] <cjwatson> iwj: .window attribute on the widget (including the top-level gtk.Window if you like)
[04:57] <cjwatson> iwj: for (2), gtk.Plug may help, although I don't recall whether set_transient_for works properly with a Plug as the parent; try it and see :-)
[04:58] <cjwatson> but certainly Plug is the way to get at window IDs from other processes in terms of GTK widgets
[04:59] <cjwatson> but failing that, perhaps w.window.set_transient_for(gtk.gdk.Window) will DTRT well enoughh
[04:59] <iwj> gtk.Widget.window> Oh, yes, that's exactly what I want.
[04:59] <cjwatson> enough
[05:00] <iwj> I think it will, yes.
[05:00] <iwj> Plug is obviously not the right answer.  If I tell it to make the window transient for a Plug then it'll probably eat its own small intestine after crawling through the large intestine.
[05:01] <iwj> spammers--
[05:03] <cjwatson> giggle, although Plug is not entirely broken since ubiquity uses it
[05:04] <cjwatson> I have seen transience issues there, but it was the other way round - I was trying to make child windows of the Socket end up properly transient on the Plug
[05:09] <iwj> I had to call w.realize() but that hardly seems too bad.
[05:12] <mvo_> iwj: SoftwareProperties.py has a example for the tranisent stuff you need, but it seems you have figured it all out already :)
[05:12] <crimsun> ogra_: splitting the source is my recommended approach upon consultation with the UbuntuStudio and JACK devs (to avoid a feature regression)
[05:13] <Mithrandir> Riddell: that'd be weird
[05:14] <Riddell> Mithrandir: the alternate CD says no kernel modules found
[05:14] <MagiqueM> hi all
[05:14] <Mithrandir> Riddell: are you sure you're grabbing the latest ones?
[05:15] <MagiqueM> where can i find ubuntu kernel patches?
[05:15] <MagiqueM> i mean the patches that ubuntu ships with its kernel
[05:15] <kylem> MagiqueM, www.kernel.org/git/
[05:15] <MagiqueM> thanks a lot
[05:18] <MagiqueM> that page takes a lot to load :)
[05:18] <Riddell> Mithrandir: definately synced to daily/current and daily-live/current
[05:19] <Riddell> Mithrandir: casper-reconfigure still has "echo "$0: package '$package' is not installed" without the needed redirect
[05:19] <Riddell> Mithrandir: I don't see an upload of casper in feisty-changes
[05:20] <Mithrandir> nobody has asked for an upload of casper; I saw you needed a new ubiquity.
[05:20] <MagiqueM> kylem: it tells me "Generating......" but nothing happens
[05:21] <MagiqueM> nor www.kernel.org works :(
[05:21] <Riddell> Mithrandir: kubuntu (and xubuntu I guess) need cjwatson's latest change to casper, could you upload it?
[05:22] <Mithrandir> Riddell: which bug # is this?
[05:25] <Riddell> Mithrandir: it doesn't have a bug number as far as I know
[05:25] <kylem> MagiqueM, try www2.kernel.org/git
[05:25] <Mithrandir> Riddell: what's the bug, then?
[05:26] <Riddell> Mithrandir: if casper-reconfigure is called on a package that isn't installed it outputs an error message to debconf which gets confused, it needs redirected to stderr
[05:26] <Riddell> Mithrandir: it's a 1 line commit to casper by cjwatson
[05:29] <Mithrandir> hmm
[05:29] <Mithrandir> I wonder why we haven't seen that before.
[05:33] <iwj> mvo_: Thanks :-).
[05:34] <iwj> mvo: Would you care to take a look at http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~ian/bzr/gnome-app-install--codecs/ ?  (Pushing as I write.)
[05:34] <jdub> ha ha --
[05:34] <iwj> I haven't given it a thorough test yet - in particular I worry that I might have regressed the MIME stuff and I haven't tested it.
[05:34] <Mithrandir> Riddell: I'm on my way out the door, I'll do it in a couple of hours.
[05:34] <iwj> But I thought that since I had something which at least doesn't bomb immediately with a syntax error I should pass it on.
[05:35] <iwj> Jesus H Christ!  80Mb!
[05:36] <mvo_> iwj: I'm happy to have a look, let me know when the push finished
[05:36] <iwj> I'm going to do some thing with rsync or something first.  An 80Mb upload with bzr push won't finish any time soon.
[05:37] <ogra_> crimsun, ok
[05:37] <mvo_> ok
[05:41] <cjwatson> Mithrandir: I mentioned it yesterday on IRC but you may have missed it
[05:41] <MagiqueM> i can't find ubuntu kernel patches...
[05:41] <cjwatson> Mithrandir: I think we have seen it before, but only intermittently
[05:41] <MagiqueM> where can i find them?
[05:41] <cjwatson> Mithrandir: I've certainly heard of similar issues before, but this was the first time I figured out the cause
[05:49] <MagiqueM> ???
[05:49] <MagiqueM> kylem i can't find ubuntu patches there
[05:50] <MagiqueM> :(
[06:00] <iwj> mvo_: That upload has finished.
[06:00] <mvo_> iwj: I'm bzr getting it now
[06:03] <Riddell> Mithrandir: powerpc also complains about no kernel modules.  my seeds and meta package are up to date
[06:03] <Riddell> Mithrandir: alternate CD that is
[06:05] <MagiqueM> does Ubuntu kernel have some cpu-related patches applied?
[06:13] <MagiqueM> none answering?
[06:14] <iwj> mvo_: I'm going to go and catch the train to climbing soon, so if you want to talk about my crazy g-a-i changes send me mail or catch me tomorrow.
[06:15] <mvo_> iwj: ok. have fun climbing!
[06:15] <mvo_> bzr is stll checking out
[06:16] <iwj> Heh.
[06:18] <iwj> mvo_: Thanks, and goodnight.
[06:33] <cjwatson> MagiqueM: you could always get the Ubuntu source package (apt-get source linux-source-2.6.17, or whatever version is appropriate) and diff it against the corresponding upstream kernel yourself
[06:33] <cjwatson> Riddell: argh, somebody forgot to update the installer seed ...
[06:34] <cjwatson> fabbione: you need to update the installer seed when you change the kernel version in debian-installer
[06:34] <cjwatson> note for the future
[06:34] <Riddell> cjwatson: at least it's not me going mad then
[06:35] <MagiqueM> cjwatson: but is simplier to have a diff file or a patch-set
[06:35] <Keybuk> aren't all the ubuntu changes under ubuntu/ now?
[06:35] <cjwatson> MagiqueM: for 2.6.17, http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/main/l/linux-source-2.6.17/linux-source-2.6.17_2.6.17-10.33.diff.gz
[06:36] <cjwatson> it's not packaged that way for all kernel versions (for some of them it's just a .tar.gz)
[06:36] <cjwatson> Keybuk: only new drivers
[06:36] <MagiqueM> thanks a lot
[06:36] <Keybuk> alternatively just use git?
[06:37] <fabbione> cjwatson: i see .. ok.. they were not updated since .19-7 and we did have a .20-X installer..
[06:37] <cjwatson> fabbione: which you uploaded :)
[06:37] <fabbione> hem.. no
[06:37] <fabbione> debian-installer (20061102ubuntu7) feisty; urgency=low
[06:37] <fabbione>   * Move to 2.6.20-2 kernels.
[06:37] <fabbione>   * Add block-modules and message-modules to hd-media images.
[06:37] <fabbione>  -- Colin Watson<EMAIL_ADDRESS>Mon, 18 Dec 2006 17:02:03 +0000
[06:37] <fabbione> so i did grep for -20-2 and there was no match
[06:37] <fabbione> anyway
[06:37] <fabbione> noted :)
[06:38] <cjwatson> ah, true, I missed it that time
[06:38] <cjwatson> you uploaded the switch to 20-5, though. :)
[06:38] <cjwatson> anyway, done now
[06:38] <cjwatson> Riddell: please merge?
[06:38] <Riddell> cjwatson: doing
[06:38] <cjwatson> ogra_: ^--
[06:38] <cjwatson> I'll do Xubuntu I gues
[06:38] <cjwatson> s
[06:38] <gpocentek> cjwatson: will do
[06:38] <gpocentek> (xubuntu)
[06:38] <cjwatson> gpocentek: ah, thank you
[06:38] <cjwatson> I forgot you'd changed nick
[06:39] <MagiqueM> cjwatson: does diff.gz it contain the applied patch list?
[06:39] <cjwatson> MagiqueM: well, I don't know where else it'd go. but please don't ask such questions here; this is a developer coordination channel
[06:39] <cjwatson> people asking questions here are expected to be developers and to have done extensive research themselves already
[06:40] <MagiqueM> i googled a lot before aking here
[06:40] <Riddell> MagiqueM: #ubuntu-motu for packaging questions
[06:40] <MagiqueM> *asking
[06:40] <cjwatson> MagiqueM: research> e.g. reading and understanding the structure of the .diff.gz
[06:40] <MagiqueM> ok i'll try
[06:40] <MagiqueM> thanks
[06:41] <cjwatson> I'm sorry, but we need to keep this channel reasonably clear
[06:41] <MagiqueM> i understand
[06:45] <Riddell> cjwatson: merged
[06:47] <cjwatson> thanks
[06:48] <gpocentek> cjwatson: xubuntu merged too
[06:49] <cjwatson> thanks; I'll do Edubuntu for expediency's sake
[06:50] <cjwatson> ogra_: cancel the above ping; I've merged the Edubuntu seeds
[07:00] <mvo_> can someone of archive-admins please reject my app-install-data-commercial upload to edgy-proposed? there is a minor bit missing
[07:01] <mvo_> nevermind
[07:01] <cjwatson> mvo_: it got auto-rejected anyway because you uploaded source+binary
[07:01] <mvo_> yes, just got the mail
[07:04] <Riddell> cjwatson: can I respin kubuntu alternate CDs?
[07:07] <cjwatson> Riddell: yes, the HTTP mirror on bazaar.launchpad.net has updated so it's safe
[07:17] <Riddell> cjwatson: done kubuntu, should I do u, ed and xubuntu too?
[07:23] <ubuntu-l1nux> Hey all
[07:23] <ubuntu-l1nux> I have a problem
[07:24] <ubuntu-l1nux> Anyone can help me?
[07:24] <azeem> ubuntu-l1nux: please ask in #ubuntu
[07:24] <jdong> heno: that looks beautiful
[07:25] <ubuntu-l1nux> Hmm, it is a kernel problem. Is there any kernel room here?
[07:25] <jdong> heno: I actually would not advise opening that thread up for any commenting; in about 2 days you'll have 20 pages
[07:25] <jdong> ubuntu-l1nux: if there was a ubuntu kernel channel, what would you name it?
[07:26] <heno> jdong: hm, ok so a separate questions thread then
[07:26] <ubuntu-l1nux> jdong: ubuntu-ker?
[07:26] <jdong> heno: right. Keep the directions clean and clear
[07:28] <cjwatson> Riddell: sure, please do
[07:34] <ogra_> cjwatson, thanks
[07:44] <Riddell> ubuntu alternate CDs done
[07:52] <Riddell> gpocentek: xubuntu alternate CDs done
[07:52] <gpocentek> Riddell: thanks
[07:58] <Riddell> ogra_: edubuntu done
[07:59] <ogra_> thanks !
[08:34] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: hm.  Do you think we need new ubuntu livefs-es too, then?
[08:34] <Keybuk> someone name me an editor that breaks hardlinks, or has an option to turn it on
[08:34] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: doesn't emacs?
[08:34] <Keybuk> not by default, afaict
[08:35] <Keybuk> I get IN_CREATE(.#wibble) ... IN_MODIFY(wibble) ... IN_DELETE (.#wibble)
[08:35] <elmo> Keybuk: vi is traditionally the one that does
[08:35] <maxb> I just tried vim. It did not.
[08:37] <elmo> hang on, what?
[08:37] <elmo> emacs does break hardlinks
[08:38] <elmo> at least here
[08:39] <Keybuk> isn't here
[08:39] <Keybuk> -rw-r--r-- 2 scott scott 75 2007-01-10 19:38 wibble
[08:39] <Keybuk> -rw-r--r-- 2 scott scott 75 2007-01-10 19:38 wobble
[08:39] <Keybuk> still hardlinked to each other
[08:39] <elmo> -rw-r--r-- 1 james james  9 Jan 10 19:38 bar
[08:39] <elmo> -rw-r--r-- 2 james james 19 Jan 10 19:37 foo
[08:40] <mjg59> elmo: You were looking for me earlier?
[08:40] <Keybuk> weird
[08:41] <elmo> mjg59: yeah, do you have a macbook pro?
[08:41] <mjg59> Nope
[08:41] <mjg59> No Apple portables
[08:41] <elmo> duh
[08:41] <mjg59> I've got an iMac that's supposed to be going to Colin when he has time to look at it
[08:42] <maxb> Keybuk: vim's behaviour can be controlled with the backupcopy option.
[08:43] <Keybuk> maxb: changing it made no difference
[08:43] <Keybuk> it still didn't break the hardlink
[08:44] <maxb> The docs say it should, and it did for me. What exactly did you do?
[08:46] <Keybuk> ln /tmp/foo/wibble /tmp/foo/wobble
[08:46] <Keybuk> vi /tmp/foo/wibble
[08:46] <Keybuk> :se backupcopy=auto,breakhardlink
[08:46] <Keybuk> edited some thing
[08:46] <Keybuk> :w
[08:46] <Keybuk> still hardlinked to each other
[08:47] <maxb> worksforme
[08:48] <Keybuk> flat out doesn't for me
[08:48] <Keybuk> you using feisty?
[08:49] <maxb> edgy
[08:50] <Keybuk> doesn't work on dapper or edgy for me either
[08:51] <Keybuk> paperboy scott% ls -l /tmp/foo
[08:51] <Keybuk> total 8.0K
[08:51] <Keybuk> -rw-r--r-- 2 scott scott 29 2007-01-10 19:49 wibble
[08:51] <Keybuk> -rw-r--r-- 2 scott scott 29 2007-01-10 19:49 wobble
[08:51] <Keybuk> paperboy scott% vi --cmd ":se backupcopy=auto,breakhardlink" /tmp/foo/wibble
[08:51] <Keybuk> paperboy scott% ls -l /tmp/foo
[08:51] <Keybuk> total 8.0K
[08:51] <Keybuk> -rw-r--r-- 2 scott scott 36 2007-01-10 19:51 wibble
[08:51] <Keybuk> -rw-r--r-- 2 scott scott 36 2007-01-10 19:51 wobble
[08:52] <gpocentek> yay, xubuntu daily iso is OK (amd64) :)
[08:53] <cjwatson> Mithrandir: the installer seed doesn't affect livefses
[08:54] <cjwatson> mjg59: re the imac, it's blocked until I get my car repaired; sorry for forgetting to tell you
[08:54] <cjwatson> mjg59: with any luck that'll be worted out tomorrow
[08:54] <cjwatson> er, sorted
[08:54] <mjg59> cjwatson: Yeah, no problem
[08:54] <mjg59> cjwatson: I'm leaving the country on Friday, back a week on Monday
[08:54] <mjg59> Ought to be around Friday afternoon until 4 or so
[08:54] <cjwatson> ok, I'll make sure to pick it up before then
[08:54] <cjwatson> is it carryable, in extremis?
[08:55] <cjwatson> I really don't actually *want* to lug a computer around Cambridge on foot, but if I have to ...
[08:55] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: no, but the casper package does.
[08:55] <cjwatson> Mithrandir: oh, in that case yes
[08:56] <mjg59> cjwatson: In extremis, but I wouldn't recommend it
[08:57] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: in extremis, take a cab?
[08:59] <cjwatson> good plan
[09:01] <Mithrandir> casper source publishing run going.
[09:01] <Mithrandir> then I'll kick the queueu builder, then wait for it to build, then new livefs-es, then new live isos.
[09:03] <Keybuk> mjg59: what flight you on?
[09:03] <Amaranth> Keybuk: that trick in your blog is evil
[09:04] <Keybuk> Amaranth: gotta go with what works <g>
[09:04] <Amaranth> heh
[09:04] <Amaranth> i'll probably end up using it
[09:04] <Amaranth> but wow
[09:11] <mjg59> Keybuk: Singapore Airlines
[09:11] <mjg59> Whichever one arrives at 07:15 on Sunday
[09:12] <Keybuk> heh, that's 25 mins after my flight leaves
[09:12] <mjg59> Leaves?
[09:13] <Keybuk> I'm on a QF flight, that's probably a BA code share, but doesn't admit to being so
[09:13] <Keybuk> for Sydney
[09:13] <mjg59> Ah
[09:13] <mjg59> So you'll be there Tuesday?
[09:13] <mjg59> Or late Monday?
[09:13] <Keybuk> hmm, sorry, misread you
[09:13] <Keybuk> mine leaves Heathrow 0650 on Friday
[09:13] <Keybuk> and arrives 1930 on Saturday (AU time)
[09:13] <mjg59> Ah, right
[09:13] <Keybuk> you have a long stop-over?
[09:14] <mjg59> Couple of hours
[09:14] <Keybuk> how come you arrive at an odd time?
[09:14] <mjg59> Leaving about 12 hours after you
[09:14] <Keybuk> oh, I see
[09:14] <Keybuk> duh
[09:14] <Keybuk> my brain is not in gear, clearly
[09:14] <mjg59> Worked out that if I stay awake until we hit Sinagpore and then sleep, I'll be on .au time
[09:14] <mjg59> Which is, coincidentally, roughly where I am anyway
[09:14] <mjg59> So it's all good
[09:36] <LaserJock> is Universe also frozen for Herd 2?
[09:37] <dsas> LaserJock: No, just requires manual poking.
[09:37] <siretart> LaserJock: according to the announcement to u-d-a, no
[09:37] <siretart> upload of ubiquity to edgy? is there a release of 6.10.1 planned?
[09:45] <LaserJock> gnomefreak: no, I think any release can have them if it's needed
[09:46] <Mithrandir> casper binary publishing run running
[10:07] <sacater_> hi all, just re-installed ubuntu (dont ask why :P), but i want to disable grub, how do i do it?
[10:08] <Treenaks> sacater_: a) you don't want to disable grub; b) this is a development channel, please ask on #ubuntu
[10:08] <sacater_> okies
[10:08] <sacater_> ty
[10:08] <sacater_> :P
[10:11] <lifeless> moining
[10:39] <BenC> can I get an archive person to process linux-backports-modules-2.6.20 through NEW please?
[10:43] <Mithrandir> BenC: is it urgent?
[10:44] <BenC> Mithrandir: Oh, right, we are in freeze for Herd 2, it can wait
[10:44] <Mithrandir> thanks. :-)
[10:44] <BenC> Mithrandir: are we in a state where we can do uploads and it wont bother you, or is that functionality not working yet?
[10:45] <Mithrandir> BenC: they end up in a queue where I can ignore them, so as long as you don't upload a zizzillion packages, I don't care.
[10:45] <Mithrandir> and anything to universe is just shoved through when I see it
[10:45] <BenC> Mithrandir: ok
[10:45] <somerville32> Mithrandir: Oh, can you approve pyNeighborhood then? :)
[10:47] <Mithrandir> somerville32: no, it's not in unapproved, it's in new and since I'm busy and NEW takes time (and it's 22:47 here now), I'm not going to do it until herd 2 is out.
[10:48] <somerville32> Mithrandir, alright then :)
[10:55] <somerville32> If anyone is interested in helping to write the Heard 2 Announcement, we're on Gobby.
[10:56] <mdke> somerville32: make sure you spell it "Herd"
[10:56] <mdke> :)
[10:56] <somerville32> :D
[10:56] <somerville32> I have <g>
[10:57] <Treenaks> hearth?
[10:59] <LaserJock> somerville32: and not Hurd
[11:00] <somerville32> :P
[11:00] <lifeless> hUrd is the new fisty
[11:04] <somerville32> Does the sister projects usually write their own?
[11:06] <LaserJock> yeah
[11:06] <LaserJock> I think so
[11:22] <bddebian> Someone say Hurd? :-)
[11:23] <mc44> Hurd II: Die Hurder
[11:23] <LaserJock> :-)
[11:23] <LaserJock> mc44: or is that "Revenge of the Hurd"?
[11:24] <mc44> :)
[11:24] <ajmitch> Ubuntu 2050
[11:25] <LaserJock> man, Debian will need Toy Story 5 to come out or something
[11:25] <LaserJock> to get enough release names, either that or they'll have to slow down that mad pace of a release cycle
[11:26] <ajmitch> I'm sure they can dig up names
[11:26] <cjwatson> siretart: bug 67130 is worth a point release to fix, I think
[11:26] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 67130 in ubiquity "mount points preparation locked - "No root file system"" [Critical,Fix committed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/67130
[11:26] <LaserJock> Debian 10.3 "3rd Sheep"
[11:27] <cjwatson> gnomefreak: we first did a point release for 6.06, it's true, but we had contemplated one for 5.10 - it just turned out not to be worth the effort, whereas for 6.06 it was
[11:32] <ogra> Mithrandir, still around ? edubuntu doesnt look good, seems i merged a patch from debian that breaks the mirror handling for non-networked installs ... i'll prepare a fixed ltsp now
[11:33] <ogra> :(((
[11:34] <msikma> Hi everybody. I don't think that #ubuntu can do anything about this, but maybe you can: the download toold Ubuntu 4.04 release seems to lead to a 403 error.
[11:34] <msikma> http://old-releases.ubuntu.com/releases/warty/warty-release-install-i386.iso This one, that is.
[11:35] <cjwatson> msikma: one moment
[11:35] <elmo> cjwatson: heh, no .pool ;-)
[11:36] <cjwatson> there is on lithium
[11:37] <elmo> ah, ok, sorry, our bad, one sec
[11:38] <msikma> If it could be fixed at some point, that would be great! The torrent link also seems to be inoperable. I realize 4.04 is officially obsolete, but I'm going to use it on an old computer on which it used to run faster than 6.06.
[11:39] <elmo> torrent won't work, I'm fixing http/ftp/rsync
[11:40] <mdke> elmo: quick question about torrents. Does it make a difference from which mirror a user downloads a torrent from (I know nothing about em, but need to know to fix a website issue)
[11:41] <elmo> mdke: no
[11:41] <mdke> great
[11:41] <mdke> elmo: thanks. were you able to view that md5sum bug, btw?
[11:41] <elmo> yeah, I'll try and reply in a bit
[11:41] <mdke> elmo: great, I wait with baited breath. thanks again
[11:42] <HrdwrBoB> bated
[11:43] <ogra> cjwatson, can you approve an upload of ltsp for me so i get the package fixed for tomorrow morning ?
[11:43] <elmo> cjwatson: eh, dapper's in the old-releases tree?
[11:43] <cjwatson> elmo: .0, yes
[11:43] <cjwatson> elmo: .1 is on releases.u.c
[11:44] <mdke> HrdwrBoB: my breath is baited, dammit
[11:44] <elmo> cjwatson: duh, sorry
[11:44] <cjwatson> is a touch confusing
[11:44] <cjwatson> ogra: if it's in the queue right now
[11:44] <cjwatson> 'cos I've been up at 0630 last two days and need my ugly sleep
[11:45] <ogra> cjwatson, uploaded 1min ago ...
[11:45] <msikma> Just wondering, does anyone know of any other location from where I can get 4.04? I can't seem to find too much on Google except for reviews.
[11:45] <ogra> its only commenting out three lines ...
[11:46] <msikma> Oh wait, it isn't 4.04, it's 4.10.
[11:47] <elmo> 4.04 would be impressive, Canonical didn't even exist then ;-)
[11:47] <msikma> Stupid me.
[11:47] <elmo> msikma: anyway, it's syncing now, try again in 30 mins or so and it should be there
[11:47] <cjwatson> well, not named Canonical, anyway ...
[11:47] <cjwatson> elmo: thanks
[11:48] <msikma> elmo: thanks very much. :)
[11:48] <cjwatson> ogra: can you explain the fix to me?
[11:48] <cjwatson> ogra: for example why 'add_mirror "$MIRROR"' isn't commented out but the lines around it are?
[11:49] <ogra> cjwatson, vagrant wrote a unctionn that adds additional mirrors to the clients sources.list ... apparently i only get empty lines on a non networked system  ... i commented the call of the function that does it for now
[11:49] <ogra> 'add_mirror "$MIRROR"' adds the default mirror ... which is the CD in our case
[11:50] <ogra> that needs fixing post herd2 indeed ... but for now this workaround is enough (gets us back to the former variant of the mirror plugin as we had it in edgy)
[11:52] <cjwatson> ogra: well, no, it doesn't, as manage-mirror didn't change from edgy to feisty
[11:53] <ogra> hmm
[11:53] <cjwatson> ogra: is it to do with the ltsp-client-builder/build-client-opts stuff?
[11:53] <msikma> Seems that the ISO is there.
[11:53] <ogra> let me see ... thats a new one ...
[11:54] <cjwatson> ogra: this shouldn't block Herd 2 if you've tested this workaround, but I thought it was worth mentioning now anyway
[11:54] <cjwatson> ogra: (have you tested this workaround?)
[11:54] <ogra> yes, several times
[11:55] <ogra> its the add_multiple_mirrors call that breaks it ...
[11:55] <cjwatson> ok, I've accepted it, but please make sure there's a bug filed with milestone 'later' or '7.04' or similar strength
[11:55] <ogra> i was always for just copying the sources.list from the server during CD installs ... but debian freaked out about it ...
[11:55] <cjwatson> to get it fixed properly
[11:56] <ogra> i hate the debian "optionitis" some days ...
[11:56] <ogra> cjwatson, will do
[11:56] <cjwatson> I'm not familiar with the issues, and it would take some thought, so I don't want to comment on that
[11:58] <cjwatson> ogra: I'm going to bed now, so you'll probably have to wait until the morning if anything else needs archive admin attention, unless Tollef drops by; you should have the access you need to rebuild Edubuntu CD images
[11:58] <ogra> right :)
[11:58] <ogra> thanks for the help :)
[11:58] <cjwatson> should be ready around 0030 UTC
[11:58] <cjwatson> np


[06:34] <sub526> We are planning to develop bunch of out-of-tree linux device drivers to validate our silicon chip.  For this we decided to use Ubuntu LTS platform, which ubuntu version would be good pick?


[13:49] <paultag> Hey all - I'm using Upstart 0.6.5, and it looks like it might be leaking processes -- was this fixed in a later version (if so, do you have the patch handy?)
[13:49] <paultag> It's leaking a Java process, if that helps with the search space (but I don't see a reason to blame Java yet)
[14:05] <paultag> (in the meantime, I'll patch over this with a pidfile)


[14:10] <Cracknel> Hello guys! I'm Alex Cucu, contact for the Romanian Ubuntu LoCo.
[14:10] <Cracknel> I have noticed your website and forums. They look great :)
[14:10] <Cracknel> Is your work on the phpBB design public? I would like to do the same thing to our LoCo website.
[14:11] <Cracknel> We are already using the same theme for our main Wordpress site.
[14:12] <Cracknel> If I'm not online when you see this message, please send me an email: me@alexcucu.ro


[11:00] <cmaloney> morning
[11:56] <Scary_Guy> hey
[12:40] <cmaloney> reminder: mug meeting tonight
[12:40] <cmaloney> promises to be a good one
[12:40] <cmaloney> I hear one of the speakers is really good
[12:40] <cmaloney> and the other one is me
[13:17] <ColonelPanic001> why must software change
[13:17] <ColonelPanic001> I've managed to screw up this damn laptop entirely and I can't even find f'ing xorg.conf
[13:17] <ColonelPanic001> piece of shit
[13:41] <cmaloney> ColonelPanic001: xorg.conf isn't used anymore
[13:42] <ColonelPanic001> so I see
[13:43]  * ColonelPanic001 goes and shuffles into a nursing home, telling tales of having to edit X11.conf while profusely swearing just to get the damned thing to boot the first time
[13:46] <cmaloney> heh
[15:53] <greg-g> you *can* use a xorg.conf still right? to override/set defaults you want?
[15:59] <cmaloney> I think so but it depends on the driver on whether it'll honor it
[16:11] <greg-g> gotcha
[18:35] <ColonelPanic001> greg-g: yeah from the little googlin' I did, that sounds correct
[18:54] <greg-g> cutting a big sim down to the smaller size isn't advised, right?
[19:33] <cmaloney> http://michiganradio.org/post/who-owns-image-m-22
[19:56] <cmaloney> greg-g: I think it needs a steady hand. Most of the cards I've had were already pre-cut
[19:57] <cmaloney> Unless you have access to a tool to make the cut I'd advise against it
[19:57] <cmaloney> There's not a lot of clearance on either end
[19:58] <cmaloney> Plus sim cards are pretty cheap (at least for Ting they're $5)
[19:58] <cmaloney> and they sent my dad three cards: one for GSM, and two for Boost / Sprint
[20:00] <greg-g> cmaloney: yeah, just the wait time to get it :/
[20:08] <cmaloney> They're pretty quick, but yeah, not immediate
[20:14] <greg-g> Current phone is dead so it kinda sucks
[20:40] <Scary_Guy> Matt just said he's not coming, his friend was in a car accident and he's driving him home.  I'll be there still
[20:42] <Scary_Guy> well... maybe.  I upgraded to Android N and it overwrote my TWRP.  Funny thing is that the recovery doesn't see the internal SD card and won't let me sideload zips through ADB (probably due to the fact that they're not signed)
[20:44] <Scary_Guy> and fastboot says it updated the image and then I reboot and still have the retard stock recovery.  I'm about ready to sail this phone toward a brick wall (but will wipe and sell it instead because it's still a good phone)
[20:46] <cmaloney> Is that the same thing as bricking your phone? :)
[20:47] <Scary_Guy> technically yes
[20:47] <cmaloney> (Hope Matt's friend is OK)
[20:47] <Scary_Guy> me too, depending on the frind
[20:50] <greg-g> zow
[22:05] <jcastro> cmaloney: happy birthday!
[22:17] <greg-g> happy birthday cmaloney !
[22:27] <cmaloney> Thank you! :)
[23:00] <brousch> Wat? cmaloney is 50 today?
[23:01] <cmaloney> brousch: Nope, only 0x2D


[05:24] <RAOF> Bah! Why does my USB controller suddenly drop dead?
[05:24] <RAOF> I _like_ my external keyboard, damnit!
[05:30] <duflu> RAOF: Snap. Me too, on random systems
[06:41] <anpok_> it workss
[06:42] <anpok_> now i need to add mir platform support.. hmm
[08:19] <duflu> Hmm why is bzr push suddenly so slow this week?
[08:19] <duflu> My upload speed is unchanged
[08:30] <duflu> camako, alan_g: Priority regression fix needs review: https://code.launchpad.net/~vanvugt/mir/fix-1339700-alarm/+merge/226252
[08:31] <alan_g> duflu: looking...
[08:32] <duflu> I think the safety of dropping the lock early is easy to verify on inspection.  What's wrong with the pipe?
[08:35] <duflu> Hmm, actually it looks like it's uploading at theoretically max speed. So bzr has somehow been slowed down by the complexity of our branches?..
[08:36] <alan_g> duflu: I'm not convinced by "*easy* to verify on inspection" - if the cb be can removed between the unlock and invoking the copy then the called back code may touch objects that no longer exist.
[08:38] <duflu> alan_g: You're assuming the callback touches its own alarm object. That's actually quite hard to do, and even if you did, you would be re-entering the alarm's mutex (which is not recursive), resulting in a crash/deadlock
[08:39] <duflu> Actually C++ says "undefined" behaviour, which is sometimes crash or deadlock
[08:41] <duflu> alan_g: Or rather, the callback is only made within the lifetime of the code that owns the alarm. So you do have confidence in when/how the callback will be made
[08:41] <alan_g> duflu: I'm saying that it is isn't "easy to verify" that nothing (on any thread) can decide to cancel the alarm and destroy the handler between the unlock and the invoke.
[08:42] <alan_g> It may well be *possible* to verify
[08:42] <alan_g> Am looking...
[08:44] <duflu> alan_g: OK, I'm not sure now either. The right answer is for objects to never have internal locking except to protect threads they themselves have created. But that's a larger architectural change
[08:50] <alf_> camako: alan_g: duflu: top-approving https://code.launchpad.net/~thomas-voss/mir/explicit-gcc-version/+merge/226140 unless someone objects soon
[08:50] <duflu> alf_: *shrug*
[08:50] <alan_g> alf_: no objection
[09:05] <alf_> @duflu's "Hmm why is bzr push suddenly so slow this week?" -> something changed and bzr is uploading an awful lot even for small branches: just uploaded 40M for a 6K diff :/
[09:06] <alan_g> alf_: I *think* it is because we lost lp:mir and the uploads are diffs against that
[09:07] <alf_> alan_g: hmm, so lp is not using stacked branches for our new branches...
[09:08] <alan_g> alf_: it is a guess based on the delays seen when we diverge from lp:mir not on research into how bzr works
[09:10] <alan_g> alf_: camako as duflu has gone can we have another opinion on https://code.launchpad.net/~mir-team/mir/fix-1339700/+merge/226233 with a view to top-approving?
[09:10] <camako> alan_g, sure...
[09:12] <alf_> camako: ^^ and we also need to fix the bzr upload issue... we can't be pushing 40M for each new branch
[09:13] <camako> alf_, okay
[09:19] <greyback> I think you can use bzr push --stacked-on=lp:something for now. But not having lp:mir is extremely confusing!
[09:20] <alan_g> greyback: thanks, that makes sense.
[09:23] <anpok_> alan_g, alf, camako: I have a third solution
[09:24] <anpok_> but not ready yet
[09:24] <alan_g> anpok_: solution to which discussion?
[09:24] <anpok_> deadlock
[09:25] <alan_g> anpok_: lp:1339700?
[09:25] <anpok_> yes
[09:25] <anpok_> calling timer callback without a lock, and ensuring sequential ordering of timer callback execution and eventual canceling/reconfiguration
[09:26] <anpok_> havent worked on it since I do the qxl mesa/kernel stuff
[09:32] <anpok_> https://code.launchpad.net/~andreas-pokorny/mir/synchronous-cancel-of-alarms/+merge/224530
[09:32] <anpok_> just updated it
[09:45] <alf_> anpok_: Can't we make main_loop_thread atomic<> instead of locking it? As it is, the code may deadlock if e.g. a synchronous action from execute() calls AsioMainLoop::stop()
[09:48] <anpok_> hmmm
[09:49] <anpok_> hm
[09:50] <anpok_> ok then i would reset the main_loop_thread before stopping the io service
[09:50] <anpok_> to ensure that nobody queues in further handlers/actions that might not get executed
[09:51] <anpok_> the lock is more about the stop() than about the reset
[09:55] <alf_> anpok_: so, to make sure I understand correctly:
[09:57] <alf_> anpok_: 150+ if (data->state.compare_exchange_strong(expected_state, mir::time::Alarm::triggered)) , is what guards us from an alarm event that was enqueued asynchronously after cancel() was called?
[09:58] <alf_> anpok_: e.g. we call cancel and enqueue a cancellation handler, but meanwhile the alarm gets triggered and enqueues an alarm handler
[10:05] <anpok_> the cancel op is first
[10:05] <anpok_> it will remove the strong ref from the timer object
[10:05] <anpok_> when the alarm handler is called it will fail in getting a shared_ptr
[10:05] <davmor2> Hey guys I'm ready to start testing silo 006 the qt comp only I've been informed that the lastest version didn't build is there anyone that can double check that before I waste my time trying to install and test it please?
[10:07] <alan_g> greyback: were you dealing with the silo? ^
[10:08] <davmor2> greyback: looking at it, it might of built for arm and just failed else where but I just wanted to be sure
[10:08] <anpok_> alf_: i would love to get rid of the thread id mutex - if we could gurantee that any outstanding operation is executed during stop - and an attempt to restart during the stop procedure is avoided (<-why did I think this is necessary?)
[10:09] <anpok_> during or before stop completes
[10:14] <alf_> anpok_: "the cancel op is first, it will remove the strong ref from the timer object", where does it do that?
[10:16] <anpok_> oh you are right
[10:17] <anpok_> I have seen too many versions of that part
[10:17] <anpok_> it just changes the state
[10:18] <anpok_> so cas will fail and no handler will be executed
[10:20] <greyback> davmor2: silo is rebuilding, a recent unity8 release means silo6 is a little out of date
[10:21] <davmor2> greyback: awesome thanks,  Didn't want to waste half a day to realise I hadn't actually tested what needed testing :)
[10:22] <greyback> davmor2: I'd love your testing feedback at some stage however. Can I ping you when silo ready?
[10:24] <davmor2> greyback: yeap sure I'm setup today for just testing this silo on manta mako and flo
[10:29] <greyback> davmor2: magic. Silo6 does work currently, but you have to carefully specify packages with this http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/7774465/ - you might be better off waiting for the rebuild tho
[10:30] <davmor2> greyback: I can wait there is other stuff I need to get on with too :)
[10:31] <greyback> davmor2: ack
[11:08] <davmor2> greyback: hmm silobot tells me that the packages are built now ;)
[11:09] <greyback> davmor2: huh, it didn't ping me
[11:10] <davmor2> greyback: see #ubuntu-ci-eng
[11:10]  * greyback doubts his irc client now
[11:10] <greyback> aha there we are
[11:10] <davmor2> haha
[11:56] <alf_> greyback: Trying out QtComp on N4, works well. Some notes that I am not sure if they are problems:
[11:57] <greyback> alf_: great, please share!
[11:58] <alf_> greyback: The icons in the launcher seem strange, at least slightly different from what I remember with previous unity8. e.g. some icons have the bottom left corner cut off
[11:58] <alf_> greyback: launcher => the bar you swipe in from the left
[11:58] <greyback> mzanetti: is that the new design^^
[11:59] <mzanetti> greyback: alf_: yes it is. It indicates which icons are pinned to the launcher
[11:59] <mzanetti> recent (unpinned) onces won't have the corner clipped
[11:59] <mzanetti> and yes, the whole launcher got a new design :)
[11:59] <alf_> greyback: mzanetti: also the ubuntu/home icon is now a full rectangle?
[12:00] <greyback> mzanetti: how are you doing that corner clip?
[12:00] <mzanetti> yeah... I'm not yet used to that either...
[12:00] <mzanetti> greyback: shadereffect
[12:00] <greyback> mzanetti: ok
[12:00] <alf_> greyback: I also only see the apps scope, is this normal, or have I messed up something?
[12:01] <mzanetti> alf_: are you?
[12:01] <mzanetti> alf_: note, scopes have a new header too :)
[12:01] <mzanetti> alf_: tried swiping left/right?
[12:01] <alf_> mzanetti: nothing happens
[12:01] <mzanetti> hmm... ok... *should* work
[12:01] <greyback> actually same here
[12:01] <alf_> mzanetti: I see the new header with search icon on the right
[12:02] <mzanetti> is this QtComp?
[12:02] <greyback> yeah
[12:02] <mzanetti> it was working here before when I tried the merge. lemme check
[12:05] <alf_> greyback: mzanetti: not related to qtcomp, more of a design issue, but I find the various different ways that you go "back" distracting
[12:06] <alf_> greyback: mzanetti: not much consistency there
[12:06] <mzanetti> alf_: hmm... example?
[12:06] <mzanetti> alf_: afaik we only have the one back button at the upper left corner (except for apps that haven't been updated yet)
[12:07] <mzanetti> which shouldn't be many any more
[12:07] <mzanetti> gallery app is one of them
[12:08] <alf_> mzanetti: right, that's the one I was thinking of
[12:08] <mzanetti> alf_: yeah... that's gallery app being outdated
[12:09] <alf_> mzanetti: but on a related note, the upper left corner is not very easy to reach if you are holding the phone with one hand (the right)
[12:10] <mzanetti> alf_: I agree. there has been a discussion on the ubuntu-phone mailing list
[12:10] <mzanetti> alf_: seems that's the only place where users don't fail to find it
[12:10] <mzanetti> don't ask me why
[12:11] <mzanetti> alf_: ogra_ even dropped his phone multiple times because of this :D
[12:13] <alf_> mzanetti: since I am play testing... have there been any discussions to reduce applications start up times, perhaps preload some common ones (e.g. waiting 2-3 seconds for the dialer to come up is painful)
[12:14] <ogra_> mzanetti, yeah !
[12:14] <mzanetti> alf_: there has been a discussion although I don't know the state/outcome.
[12:14] <ogra_> there wasnt any
[12:14] <ogra_> design said "this is how we designed it" ... no further discussion happened
[12:15] <mzanetti> right, for the back button. yep, that's what it was mostly
[12:15] <mzanetti> for the preloading though I think architects had some thoughts about it
[12:23] <anpok_> well, we should look what takes so much time - i.e. it could be something trivial like shader compilation..
[12:25] <mzanetti> lots of it is QML compilation
[12:25] <mzanetti> there have been thoughts about precompiling QML
[14:43] <AlbertA> alf_: so there is one scenario in TimeoutFrameDroppingPolicy
[14:43] <AlbertA> alf_: where an alarm can be rescheduled after it was cancelled
[14:44] <AlbertA> alf_: if Thread A calling swap_not_blocking is pre-empted right after if (pending_swaps++ == 0)
[14:45] <AlbertA> alf_: and Thread B calls swap_unblocked, cancels alarm and decrements pending_swaps
[14:45] <AlbertA> then Thread A will reschedule the timer, which can potentially lead to the assert(pending_swaps.load() > 0); triggering
[14:46] <AlbertA> but I think converting that assert into just a return should cover that...
[14:52] <dobey> AlbertA: for #1337481 i wonder if just doing a no-change rebuild in the archive might fix it? (though of coruse it won't prevent it from possibly recurring in the future)
[14:56] <AlbertA> dobey: it's something I wanted to try for sure...we are about to spin 0.4.1 though...so perhaps that would cover it
[14:56] <AlbertA> dobey: I hate these heisenbugs...
[14:58] <davmor2> kgunn: osk is playing up in Qtcomp trying to put my finger on why also I only see the apps scope I don't seem to be able to change
[14:58] <dobey> AlbertA: yeah, i know what you mean
[14:59] <greyback> davmor2: apps scope bug is our bug, we've fix on the way
[14:59] <davmor2> greyback: right nice
[14:59] <greyback> davmor2: osk bug?
[15:03] <davmor2> greyback: what I've discovered is that osk will randomly stops working in some apps.  Like messaging app I now can't get it to raise, The text box goes white but the cursor doesn't appear in the test field
[15:06] <kgunn> davmor2: might want to make doubly sure its qtcomp...it was acting up like hell on N7 for me in the virgin image (y'day)
[15:07] <kgunn> messaging and phone app very very wonky specifically on n7 virgin image also
[16:43] <davmor2> kgunn: okay so everything I can test seems to be working,  Only the keyboard issue that I've hit.  I'll start digging into that and see if I can get anything useful from logs etc.  I would need the fix for scopes to land to actually continue testing though.  Apps only currently :)
[16:44] <kgunn> davmor2: thanks for testing!
[17:26] <popey> kgunn: looks like latest mir broke the music app (again). Unplug phone, start music app, press play, let phone go dark, it doesn't continue to the next track, but does when you wake the phone.
[17:26] <popey> bug 1292306 related
[17:27] <kgunn> popey: are you playing local music ?
[17:27] <popey> yes
[17:27] <kgunn> hmmm....
[17:27] <popey> ahayzen: music dev discovered and I confirmed it
[17:27] <kgunn> mir hadn't changed since image 110
[17:28] <kgunn> popey: are you sure its mir  ^
[17:28] <popey> well it felt like *that* bug ☻
[17:28] <ahayzen> kgunn, how can we tell if it is/isn't mir?
[17:28] <kgunn> popey: and we sure hadn't touched that particular part of the mechanism (....so....much....pain)
[17:29] <popey> heh, i hear you!
[17:29] <kgunn> ahayzen: when did it start happening ?
[17:29] <kgunn> i assume this gets tested every image
[17:29] <popey> not sure it does ⍨
[17:29] <ahayzen> kgunn, 'recently' ... no we don't have any automated testing on this :/
[17:29] <popey> i have it on the devel image
[17:32] <kgunn> popey: i do know that jhaddop and the boys/girls were changing stuff in their area related to this....but not sure what...i can go retro and test an image to see if it was mir...but nothings changed since 110
[17:32] <kgunn> btw i need to run
[17:33] <popey> ok, thanks kgunn
[17:33] <ahayzen> thanks kgunn
[17:33] <popey> ahayzen: lets get a new bug filed for this, and get it on the radar
[17:33]  * popey moves to -ci-eng
[17:33] <ahayzen> popey, agreed
[17:37] <anpok> AlbertA: regarding the deadlock
[17:37] <anpok> display needs to be off?
[17:38] <anpok> to experience it
[17:38] <AlbertA> anpok: it needs to be off, and then you need to hit the power key again to start the compositor
[17:38] <anpok> oh seems like I just experienced a different problem
[17:38] <AlbertA> so if you get lucky
[17:38] <AlbertA> the timeout will be executing as the compositor starts and calls swap_unblocked
[17:38] <AlbertA> which will deadlock
[17:39] <AlbertA> anpok: oh yea?
[17:39] <anpok> n10 with qtcomp branch .. freezes
[17:39] <AlbertA> just in normal use?
[17:39] <anpok> for a few seconds then continues
[17:39] <anpok> hmm during animations
[17:40] <anpok> from app to shell
[17:40] <anpok> or on application startup
[17:40] <AlbertA> anpok: I see....
[17:42] <anpok> hm this is new .. n10 was working extremely fluid yesterday
[18:30] <greyback> anpok: yeah, I'm seeing it now too. First time I've ever experienced that, wtf is making everything just block?
[18:34] <greyback> hmm, wonder if the snapshotting is to blame
[18:35] <greyback> I see blocking in libdbus which I didn't expect either
[20:18] <AlbertA> anpok: so your branch https://code.launchpad.net/~andreas-pokorny/mir/synchronous-cancel-of-alarms/+merge/224530
[20:19] <AlbertA> anpok: would not resolve the deadlock for https://bugs.launchpad.net/mir/+bug/1339700
[20:19] <AlbertA> anpok: since cancel is synchronous
[20:21] <AlbertA> i.e. Thread A (the one executing the ServerActionQueue.. may be executing the alarm handler for TimeoutFrameDroppingPolicy
[20:22] <AlbertA> the policy callback then will try to acquire BufferQueue::guard
[20:23] <AlbertA> let's say there's thread B, calling BufferQueue::compositor_release
[20:23] <AlbertA> which owns BufferQueue::guard
[20:23] <AlbertA> and attempts to cancel the alarm (due to framedrop_policy->swap_unblocked();)
[20:25] <AlbertA> which will wait indefintely since it's synchronous and won't get executed until AsioMainLoop::process_server_actions returns from the alarm handler
[20:25] <AlbertA> so deadlock...
[20:31] <AlbertA> anpok: but I think if we expose the async_cancel api, we can make use of that to avoid this condition. The alarm handler in TimeoutFrameDroppingPolicy
[20:32] <AlbertA> can deal with spurious calls....
[20:32] <AlbertA> maybe....I need to think about it some more....
[20:50] <anpok> AlbertA: hm but it wont use the queue in that case
[20:51] <AlbertA> anpok: ? Trhead B? but that's the compositor thread
[20:51] <anpok> ah ok I have to read that again
[20:55] <anpok> AlbertA: yes you are right this was an attemmpt to keep up the synchronous api
[20:56] <anpok> but it seems that is the actual mistake
[20:56] <AlbertA> anpok: so the reason for queing them up for server action queue,
[20:57] <AlbertA> is due to timer.cancel() not guaranteeing that there will be no more handlers invoked?
[20:57] <anpok> yes
[20:57] <AlbertA> ok
[20:58] <anpok> timer.cancel tries to provide a synchronous api without the guarantees
[20:58] <anpok> i.e. cancel may return, and may destroy other related objects, previously referenced by the timer callback, and another thread is scheduled and executes the timer
[20:59] <anpok> i.e. happened in ~TimeoutFrameDroppingPolicy
[21:00] <anpok> greyback: yes there are unity8 logs about snapshotting
[21:00] <greyback> anpok: actually I think it is a problem with dbus
[21:00] <anpok> but only in the app -> phone shell switch cases..
[21:01] <greyback> anpok: connecting with strace, unity8 is continually polling for something, and when it tries to send a dbus message, blocks for 25seconds before timing out (then tries again I think)
[21:01] <greyback> sbus messages are sent for app focus changes
[21:02] <anpok> and that inside the rendering thread?
[21:02] <anpok> or the event thread block rendering again?
[21:02] <greyback> anpok: event thread blocks
[21:02] <anpok> yay!
[21:02] <greyback> why dbus is failing I don't understand
[21:03] <anpok> was there a recent change?
[21:03] <greyback> but I see in my unity8 log that it crashed the first time when trying to connect to the dbus socket
[21:03] <anpok> my n4 image is a bit older than the n10 image
[21:03] <anpok> only see it there
[21:03] <greyback> no relevant recent change actually
[21:03] <greyback> I only see this on N10, not N4/7
[21:03] <greyback> perhaps a race somewhere
[21:08] <anpok> AlbertA: i am not sure - there are a few synchronisation points like destructors - there we need to have synchronous behavior. Apart from that queuing or working with completion handlers seems simpler.
[21:10] <AlbertA> also it looks like the users of alarm need to protect it externally
[21:10] <AlbertA> i.e. like if one thread is doing reschedule_in and another trying to cancel
[21:11] <AlbertA> well not in the traditional sense I suppose
[21:11] <AlbertA> alarm state itself will be fine
[21:17] <AlbertA> anpok: I think the branch looks fine, except for line 244
[21:17] <AlbertA> data = std::make_shared<InternalState>(data->callback);
[21:17] <AlbertA> USC will update the timer repeatedly to reset the inactivity timer during motion events
[21:17] <AlbertA> I'm concerned about the overhead
[21:18] <kgunn> i love it when i type reboot in the wrong window
[21:18] <AlbertA> kgunn: I hate it...:)
[21:18] <kgunn> so annoying
[21:18] <AlbertA> I've gotten used to adb shell reboot instead.... <= workaround
[21:19] <kgunn> totally...
[21:19] <kgunn> i had a moment of weakness :)
[21:19] <anpok> AlbertA: wait until your system exposes an adb service that can be used from your phone
[21:19] <AlbertA> anpok: ha
[21:21] <anpok> AlbertA: hm could be replaced by a different mechanism
[21:21] <anpok> maybe a configuration counter? to differ between two pending states?
[21:21] <anpok> and the action inside the queue stores the expected pending counter?
[21:25] <AlbertA> like adding a pending_state ?
[21:27] <anpok> hm there alread is?
[21:27] <anpok> i meant something to detect inside the queue whether the alarm object is out of sync with the currently executed action
[21:59] <AlbertA> anpok: so the only reason I see for data being a shared_ptr is for lifetime issues...which should be now addressed with the synchronous cancel no?
[21:59] <AlbertA> do we really need auto data = possible_data.lock();
[22:01] <AlbertA> anpok: I mean basicaly this comment
[22:01] <AlbertA> http://paste.ubuntu.com/7777346/


[16:39] <nysosym> hi there :)
[16:40] <nysosym> where is kwwi?
[18:17] <kwwii> hi
[18:18] <kwwii> lol, guess I missed him
[18:18]  * kwwii just got back from seeing avatar with his son
[23:39] <coz_> 12 people????
[23:40] <coz_> I thought I was in #cairo-dock for a second
[23:40] <DanRabbit> lol
[23:42] <coz_> was there a netsplit or is this it?
[23:48] <DanRabbit> netsplit?
[23:53] <coz_> DanRabbit,  that's when one of the freenode servers go down for some reason or repairs and the people who access irc via one of those downed servers   are automatically cut off