[00:42] <tonyyarusso> %login
[00:42] <ubotu> OK
[00:42] <tonyyarusso> @btlogin
[00:45] <somerville32> %login
[00:45] <somerville32> : (
[00:45] <jdong> lol
[00:45] <jdong> it no likey you.
[00:46] <somerville32> Make it like me :(
[00:46] <ompaul> tonyyarusso, please check your client
[00:46] <Pici> !love
[00:46] <ubotu> Love is like racing across the frozen tundra on a snowmobile which flips over, trapping you underneath.  "Dr. Livingston, I presume. And aren't *you* the strapping lad!"
[00:53] <Pici> jdong: ahahahaha
[00:53] <ompaul> jdong, whole different order of broadcast - see multicast - after several broken bones
[00:54] <ompaul> wow even I find that hard to follow
[00:54] <ompaul> :)
[00:54] <ompaul> mneptok, you are the one - one what we don't know but the one none the less
[00:54]  * LjL thinks at this stage jdong's so ruined he could just make the ultimate joke too
[00:55] <jdong> lol no, I still have a slight bit of a conscience
[00:55]  * mneptok broke jdong!
[00:55] <jdong> though this channel is eroding it fast ;-)
[00:55] <jdong> mneptok: oh I was broken far before you came along ;-)
[00:55] <mneptok> oh? cool, i'll get the hand cream and tile grout.
[00:55] <somerville32> :]
[00:55] <jdong> I get the cream, but what's the grout for?
[00:55] <ompaul> jdong, you had to ask
[00:56] <jdong> uh oh this might not be good...
[00:56] <mneptok> do you have insurance?
[00:56]  * ompaul rofl
[00:56] <jdong> err.... for me or for my bathroom?
[00:56] <mneptok> oh ... and is your will up-to-date?
[00:56] <ompaul> mneptok, you are what we refer to as a sick puppy
[00:56] <mneptok> the grout is most certainly NOT for the bathroom. how .... uninspired.
[00:57] <mneptok> ompaul: i'm in good company ;)
[00:57] <ompaul> mneptok, there is that and then there is this: Scorpions – Suspender Love
[00:57] <jdong> haha. he said "in".
[00:57] <mneptok> all the way to the base.
[00:58] <somerville32> lol
[00:58] <mneptok> ompaul: ROCK YOU LIKE A HURRICANE!
[00:58] <ompaul> hahah
[00:58] <tonyyarusso> grr - ever had one of those professors that feels the need to blather on about things that aren't covered by the book, b/c they aren't really relevant to the intended curriculum but he likes them anyway?
[00:58] <mneptok> (wait, was that Scorpions?)
[00:58] <ompaul> mneptok, actually got to go --- speedy's coming
[00:58] <PriceChild> tonyyarusso, I kinda like those moments...
[00:58] <PriceChild> tonyyarusso, they're normally slightly interesting.
[00:58] <jdong> tonyyarusso: *sigh* my bio professor invented cancer and the tests, homeworks, and lectures are basically turning into his life memoirs.
[00:59] <ompaul> jdong, don't you have like a young professor for any subject?
[00:59] <jdong> ompaul: I wish....
[00:59] <mneptok> tonyyarusso: "Can we please cover the material I paid for?"
[00:59] <tonyyarusso> PriceChild: it's a computer science course taught by a guy who probably witnessed the invention of the punchcard.
[00:59] <jdong> ompaul: they're all old and not good for daydreaming during lectures.
[00:59] <ompaul> right I am gone
[00:59] <mc44> jdong: isn't he a bit ashamed he invented cancer
[00:59] <mc44> you know, it's not something I'd boast about
[01:00] <PriceChild> oh don't get jdong started on this...
[01:00] <jdong> lol he discovered the first oncogene and tumor suppressor genes
[01:00] <jdong> so I think it evens out
[01:00] <mc44> sure "discovered"
[01:00] <jdong> a wrong and then a right makes a forgotten wrong.
[01:00] <mc44> :)
[01:00] <jdong> he also lamented al gore getting the nobel peace prize....
[01:01] <jdong> fortunately no notes for that lecture ;-)
[01:01] <mneptok> jdong: does that mean Germany gets a pass on the Holocaust because of Technoviking?
[01:01]  * Hobbsee thinks mneptok is just plain insane.
[01:01] <jdong> mneptok: nah the german fetish stuff already made up for it ;-)
[01:01] <jdong> wow I'm losing it
[01:02] <PriceChild> technoviking?
[01:02]  * jdong wonders if people actually read the log to this channel
[01:02] <mc44> jdong: only your mother
[01:03] <mneptok> PriceChild: http://www.break.com/knockedupdvd/all-hail-technoviking.html
[01:03] <mneptok> ^^ Technoviking ^^
[01:03] <tonyyarusso> Oh lordy, this should be interesting
[01:03] <tonyyarusso> Now he thinks he's qualified to talk about brain structure
[01:04] <Seeker`> aparently one of my lecturers worked with bourne for a while
[01:04] <mc44> Jason?
[01:04] <jdong> dunno. forgot.

[01:07] <somerville32> lol
[01:07] <somerville32> lmao
[01:07] <mc44> don't encourage him with laughter
[01:08] <PriceChild> Wait... doesn't MikeB- use TechnoViking as his nick on irc now?
[01:08] <jdong> rza
[01:08] <PriceChild> *imagines MikeB dancing like that*
[01:08] <jdong> err that's yes.
[01:08] <PriceChild> jdong, not qwerty?
[01:10] <LjL> not dvorak either
[01:10] <jdong> PriceChild: offset -1 key and a dyslexic swap
[01:10] <jdong> :)
[01:11] <LjL> the only thing that's offset -1 is the s, and even if you swap the other two, "ye" doesn't come up :P
[01:15] <PriceChild> LjL, which channels for ubotu?
[01:15] <LjL> PriceChild: ah, i thought my watchlist changing would mean something.
[01:15] <PriceChild> LjL, pardon?
[01:15] <LjL> PriceChild: [Watched nicks] dutchman is now online
[01:15] <PriceChild> :)
[01:17] <tonyyarusso> wait, you can watch for nicks?
[01:17] <somerville32> Do you watch for me? :)
[01:22] <Tm_T> meh
[01:23] <ubotu> choudesh called the ops in #ubuntu (oobe)
[01:46] <tonyyarusso> LjL: err, how do you set a forward in mlock?
[01:47] <LjL> tonyyarusso: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IrcTeam/MovingChannels
[01:47] <LjL> please forward to any other contacts who may need to move
[01:47] <tonyyarusso> LjL: yeah, that's what I did.  /cs info #ubuntu-minnesota though - it shows a +f, but not the channel it's supposed to go to.
[01:48] <LjL> tonyyarusso: well, it does forward to the right channel
[01:48] <tonyyarusso> odd
[01:48] <LjL> it's just that chanserv doesn't show it
[01:48] <tonyyarusso> all righty
[01:50] <nalioth> chanserv never shows it
[01:50] <nalioth> just +f
[01:50] <nalioth> and whatever else
[01:50] <nalioth> mode-wise
[01:59] <LjL> omg wii
[02:00] <Tm_T> yes
[02:00] <Tm_T> just kickban him
[02:00]  * Tm_T cant
[02:00] <Tm_T> unless you allow me
[02:01] <crdlb> where and with what nick?
[02:02] <Tm_T> crdlb: erm?
[02:02] <Tm_T> crdlb: who are you?
[02:02] <Tm_T> LjL: pretty please
[02:03]  * crdlb is an op in #compiz-fusion
[02:03] <Tm_T> not that
[02:03] <Tm_T> but thanks :)
[02:03]  * mjr wrote up a short piece on Censorship, IRC and the Ubuntu Code of Conduct for fun, profit, and future efficiency of arguing about it. Those interested, http://mjr.iki.fi/ubuntu/coc_censorship
[02:03] <LjL> Tm_T, seems he's begging for me to.
[02:04] <Tm_T> meh
[02:04] <Tm_T> where his ban is from there?
[02:05] <LjL> Tm_T: he's not banned, but ompaul removed a lot of bans earlier because the banlist was full, let me check
[02:05] <Tm_T> hmmmm
[02:06] <Tm_T> he was banned twice from there I'm sure
[02:06] <LjL> one of them was removed
[02:06] <crdlb> I thought he was k-lined :(
[02:07] <Tm_T> crdlb: twice atleast
[02:07] <tonyyarusso> mjr: That seems like a reasonable argument for society in general, but not so much for Ubuntu-land.
[02:08] <LjL> Tm_T, both bans were removed on oct 15 by pici pruning bans. on one of them, he states in the comment that there is another banmask covering the same ban, however it seems he removed that one by mistake too
[02:08] <LjL> so, i say it's a ban
[02:08] <Tm_T> LjL: if and when you are sure that we can remove him again, please let me ;)
[02:08] <Hobbsee> mjr: nice essay
[02:09] <Tm_T> :(
[02:09] <somerville32> mjr, Do you mind if I blog about it?
[02:09] <tonyyarusso> mjr: My post from a while back is somewhat relevant as well (see http://blog.tonyyarusso.com/politics/what-free-speech-isnt/)
[02:09] <mjr> somerville32, go ahead
[02:09] <Hobbsee> mjr: of course, i'd be interested to see #ubuntu-offtopic actually have a conversation about politics, which didn't turn into a mega-long rant about the state of politics, where nothing else could be said at all.
[02:09] <Hobbsee> mjr: which is why the politics stuff was added in there
[02:10] <LjL> Tm_T: sorry, i had already switched to -offtopic
[02:10] <tonyyarusso> mjr: I agree that it would be nice if enforcement were more uniform, but frankly I think that's hard to do without making it automated by bots, which I think would be far scarier.
[02:11] <tonyyarusso> mjr: btw - most of that stuff was added, as Hobbsee pointed out, due to past experience.  The channel used to be much more allowing to various topics, but unfortunately restricted out of necessity as it grew.  (Things are very different with 150 people compared to 25)
[02:11] <Hobbsee> mjr: also, #ubuntu-offtopic isn't really a great place to get psychatric help.
[02:11] <Tm_T> mjr: what essay?
[02:12] <Hobbsee> "we're a linux distribution.  not a psychiatric ward"
[02:12] <Tm_T> Hobbsee: sure?
[02:12] <Hobbsee> Tm_T: last i checked.
[02:13] <Hobbsee> mjr: also, i find it unhelpful when people rant about women in the channel - it's often mroe discouraging to women to see that, than to have it not beign discussed at all.
[02:13] <Hobbsee> mjr: the aim of -offtopic is so that everyone can have a say, and can have multiple conversations at once if they wish.  if you're having a massive flamewar on some subject, ti's very hard to do that.
[02:15] <Hobbsee> mjr: of course, one could then go and write another rant, saying that because stuff like politics *is* allowed, it was too busy to discuss what they wanted to, and that they didn't care about a particularly country's politics, and so it's a violtaion of their free speech to talk.
[02:15] <Hobbsee> er, to have that in there.
[02:15]  * Hobbsee is still a big fan of forwarding #ubuntu-offtopic to ##offtopic, so it has no relevance to ubuntu at all.
[02:17]  * LjL is still a big fan of the idea that #ubuntu-offtopic should at least in theory be considered a channel where the main topic is Ubuntu, just not Ubuntu *support*, while digressions are allowed to some extent
[02:17] <mjr> Hobbsee, not an entirely bad idea
[02:17]  * jdong sides with LjL on this
[02:17] <mjr> Tm_T, see above
[02:17] <Tm_T> LjL: agreed
[02:17] <Hobbsee> LjL: yeah well.  that'd be even nicer.
[02:17] <jdong> there needs to be an IRC place for Ubuntites to just chill and get to know each other...
[02:17] <jdong> but not rage political war ;-)
[02:18] <LjL> Hobbsee: that happens. there's a lot of Ubuntu-related talk in -offtopic, although there's also a lot of unrelated talk.
[02:18] <Hobbsee> as an australian, i don't overly care about american politics.  why should i not be able to talk in there about what i want, due to an hour long discussion on something i'm not interested in, which is very busy?
[02:18] <mneptok> jdong: may i suggest #debian ?  >:)
[02:19] <Hobbsee> do you actually have a good solution to that?
[02:19] <jdong> mneptok: meh but what if I'm bidistro? :)
[02:19] <mneptok> Hobbsee: as an American, i'm not quite sure what this "Australia" you speak of actually *is*.
[02:19] <Hobbsee> mneptok: :P
[02:19] <LjL> mneptok wins
[02:19] <jdong> all in all, I think it's an impossible line to draw :)
[02:20] <mneptok> Hobbsee: oh! wait! "Koala England," right?!
[02:20] <jdong> I think the policy should be worded roughly like the ops are fully within their rights to stop any discussion
[02:20] <Hobbsee> jdong: that won't stop the paranoi
[02:20] <Hobbsee> a
[02:20] <LjL> jdong: what, it isn't?!
[02:20] <Tm_T> mjr: interesting
[02:20] <jdong> LjL: well technically it is, but without an explicit policy you'll get a lot of bickering when you do it
[02:21] <Hobbsee> LjL: it actually specifies what some of the inappropriate stuff is
[02:21] <LjL> jdong: tss, says you. remember the changes we made to the guidelines during the last meeting?
[02:21] <jdong> I'd say "Ubuntu-related topics are fair game, you can try other topics but don't whine if you're asked to take it outside"
[02:21] <mneptok> http://www.mneptok.com/staticpages/index.php?page=unixirc  <--- feel free to appropriate any parts of "The Rules" that would be helpful.
[02:22] <Hobbsee> jdong: "ubuntu-related topics are fine, anything else goes to ##offtopic"
[02:22] <jdong> :)
[02:22] <Tm_T> Hobbsee: jdong LjL I would also say that all "op games" should be kept out from -offtopic
[02:23] <LjL> he asked for it
[02:23] <Hobbsee> since when have they been in -offtopic anyway?  not for a while.
[02:23] <Hobbsee> afaik.
[02:23] <Hobbsee> mneptok: those look good.
[02:24] <LjL> oh, uhm, err.
[02:24] <somerville32> ...
[02:24] <Hobbsee> i'm starting to think all the ops should quit from -offtopic, stick people like somerville32 and mjr in there, and let them deal with it - and see hwo they do.
[02:25] <mneptok> Hobbsee: are you recruiting for Fedora or something? ;)
[02:25] <Hobbsee> we'll see what they end up doing, and whether they'll take an ideological stance, or a practical one, after they've had some experience.
[02:25] <mneptok> talk about trial by fire ...
[02:25] <Hobbsee> mneptok: well, they want to change it, they think they can do a better job, and they think we suck at it.
[02:26] <no0tic> I don't get the point. Why out there are people that whine about op's "censorship" on #ubuntu-* channels? Nobody forbids them to join ##offtopic or to open a new channel in which they would be kings of their realm.
[02:26] <Hobbsee> give 'em a trial, see fi they change their tune.
[02:26]  * mjr notes how some counterarguments for censorship by subject have been presented, while nobody has counterargued by vocabulary. Interesting :]
[02:26] <Hobbsee> no0tic: because ##offtopic is apparently scary, and doesn't have the same people
[02:26] <Hobbsee> mjr: you probably have a point aobut the vocabulary.  to a point.
[02:26] <no0tic> Hobbsee, then.. create a new channel and invite every user you want, what's the problem?
[02:27] <Hobbsee> We believe in free speech ... to a point. A well-placed epithet can often be used to great effect. But excessive profanity is silly. Ad hominem abuse (personal attack) is a no-no. Trolling is a no-no. Use of your client for CTCP, DCC and other actions is also covered by this. Don't engage in client abuses. What constitutes each of these things? When an op asks you to cut it out, you'll know you've gone too far.
[02:27] <Hobbsee> sums it up quite well
[02:27] <mneptok> mjr: official Ubuntu IRC channels are censored. deal with it.
[02:27] <mneptok> mjr: trust me, you're glad they are.
[02:27] <Hobbsee> no0tic: people's lazyness.
[02:27] <Hobbsee> mneptok: and you yourself are censored in them :P
[02:27] <mjr> _Of course_ I deal with it. Why do you think I'm still there?
[02:27] <mneptok> Hobbsee: oh, i self censor. trust me.
[02:28] <mneptok> mjr: so what is your issue?
[02:28] <mjr> or does "dealing with it" mean not pointing out hypocrisy?
[02:28] <somerville32> Personally, I've came to the conclusion that I'll never feel the same way about IRC policy as some of the ops and I've come to accept that.
[02:28] <mneptok> mjr: such as?
[02:28] <mjr> mneptok, such as noted in the essay
[02:29] <no0tic> You want to join ubuntu community? well, there are rules to follow, period. You dislike ops' behaviours? Think about why they became ops
[02:29] <mneptok> mjr: kees can commit security patches directly to the repos. MOTUs can't. is this "hypocrisy?"
[02:29] <mjr> mneptok, of course not. But being arrogant, petty and disrespectful while pounding on the CoC is.
[02:29] <LjL> somerville32, indeed. different channels are run in many very different ways... and i don't have a prejudice against those channels that are run in opposite ways from the ones we run ours.  they've chosen a different path, and each may work fine, if there are the conditions
[02:30] <mneptok> mjr: the fact is, IRC is not a democracy. it's not a republic. it's a meritocracy in the best cases, and despotism in the worst.
[02:30] <mjr> mneptok, please keep telling me stuff I've known probably for longer than you've been online
[02:30] <mneptok> mjr: if you have specific examples, and logs, the IRC Council wants to talk to you.
[02:31] <mneptok> mjr: *now* who's being arrogant, petty, and disrespectful?
[02:31] <somerville32> My biggest tift about the IRC council is the lack of equal representation.
[02:31] <mjr> mneptok, I freely admit I answer to those in kind pretty quickly
[02:31] <Seeker`> mjr: how long *have* you been online?
[02:31] <mneptok> mjr: i said nothing petty, arrogant, or disrespectful.
[02:32] <somerville32> mneptok, Who are you kidding? :P You _are_ arrogant and disrespectful :P Thats why we love you.
[02:32] <mneptok> mjr: i stated my opinion. you find it repetetive. it's no good reason to be insulting.
[02:32] <mjr> mneptok, you were stating and restating obvious things to me as if I'm an idiot, all the while staying clear of all relevance to the actual matter, which isn't if it's a democracy, but if it's a hypocracy
[02:33] <Hobbsee> somerville32: who else would you want on there?
[02:33] <Hobbsee> somerville32: why is it not equal?
[02:33] <mneptok> mjr: "hypocrisy"
[02:33] <mjr> mneptok, it's a "play on words". Look it up.
[02:34] <somerville32> Hobbsee, The IRC Council mainly represents the management of the three (four?) main support channels and their offtopic equivs and that the IRC Council should have a seat for each group.
[02:34] <Hobbsee> somerville32: the point of a council is that it isn't huge.
[02:34]  * tonyyarusso sighs at that point, yet again
[02:34] <Hobbsee> somerville32: presumably you're upset that you didn't get a chance to be on it, so are bringing all this up?
[02:35] <mneptok> mjr: as i'm weary of your attitude, i'm going now.
[02:35] <mjr> mneptok, good.
[02:35] <somerville32> Hobbsee, I wouldn't be interested in being on it but I wouldn't mind seeing another xubuntu op on it.
[02:35] <mneptok> mjr: you might get better results after a juice box and a nap.
[02:35] <jdong> somerville32: do you feel there's times your interests were underrepresented in decision making?
[02:36]  * jdong thinks there doesn't have to be a rep from each group on the council to have that group's needs addressed
[02:36] <Hobbsee> somerville32: for one, i'm glad that you're *not* on it - as you don't appear to be able to keep your jealousy separate from the issues at hand - like the running of *ubuntu* related channels.
[02:36] <Hobbsee> somerville32: who would your suggestion be for an xubuntu-related op?
[02:36] <mjr> mneptok, well, you go get those and then reread your lines and consider carefully whether you might've been a tiniest bit condescending
[02:36] <Hobbsee> somerville32: and have you seen the council behave badly towards kubuntu, as there is no kubuntu-based op on the council?
[02:37] <somerville32> I wouldn't know and I wouldn't even know if the current setup works. I'm thinking purely about why there is the IRC and how I think it should be composed fairly.
[02:37] <somerville32> Since the IRC is a body of power.
[02:37] <Seeker`> as far as i can see, the problem with mjr's argument is the apparent assumption that everyone has rights on all ubuntu channels and that it is a democracy. But it isn't - it is a "private" network, where certain people have been chosen to run it. What they say goes - end of story
[02:37] <mneptok> mjr: if you found my opinions repetitive, sorry. it's still no excuse for the "i'voe been online longer than you" swordfight
[02:37] <mjr> Seeker`, get better glasses
[02:38] <Seeker`> its not like anyone is forced to be here, they can set up unofficial ubuntu  channels on this server, or other servers
[02:38] <Hobbsee> somerville32: all i seem to see from you is how it doesn't work, consistently, yet you offer little-to-no solutions on how it can be fixed - apart from creating more beaurocracy.
[02:38] <mneptok> mjr: stop the caustic comments. now.
[02:38] <somerville32> But I'm not sure I want to get into this discussion because we often fight and I'd rather have a good working relationship with you.
[02:38] <Seeker`> and IRC isn't the end of the world. Fair enough if it was Real Life, but its just a chat system
[02:38] <Hobbsee> somerville32: i have no interest in fighting with you - all i'm doing is suggesting why your comments are not taken entirely seriously.
[02:38] <jdong> guys, can we please move this political discussion to #offtopic?
[02:38] <jdong> *ducks*
[02:38] <mjr> Seeker`, the point is that the operator practices on major ubuntu channels are disrespectful, arrogant, and petty, whiles _supposed_ to being governed by the CoC
[02:39] <Hobbsee> somerville32: and why you didn't get asked to be on the council.
[02:39] <mjr> mneptok, you mean comments like "deal with it"? You know, your opener
[02:39] <Seeker`> mjr: I have not seen any actions like that, and I have been hanging around here for quite a while
[02:39] <Hobbsee> bloody hell.
[02:39]  * jdong blinks
[02:39] <mneptok> uh.
[02:39] <mneptok> whuddeye do?
[02:39] <Hobbsee> mneptok: see /query
[02:40]  * Seeker` hopes he didn't do anything wrong
[02:41] <LjL> ok, i suggest that this discussion is stopped now. continue in #ubuntu-irc if you feel the need to. this is a flamewar now, actually it's been a flamewar for the last 20 minutes at least, with personal attacks and everything.
[02:41] <Hobbsee> have you never heard the logic of bashing kid's heads together when they keep arguing, so they both step down and think about what they're doing?
[02:41] <Hobbsee> (independant of who's right and wrong?)
[02:42] <mneptok> Hobbsee: can i go ride bikes now?
[02:42] <Hobbsee> sure!
[02:42] <mneptok> YAY!
[02:42] <jdong> mneptok: put on your helmet!
[02:42] <jdong> probably too late though
[02:42] <mneptok> i always wear a helmet.
[02:42] <mneptok> and i'm not on any teams. :/
[02:43] <jdong> I was going to say put on your protective gear, but thought better of it :)
[02:43] <Hobbsee> of course..
[02:43] <mneptok> that's like asking Miami to buy snowplows.
[02:44]  * Hobbsee fully realises that that will be used in mjr's or somerville32's next essay on why ubuntu censorship is evil - the kicking of both of them, to restore general channel sanity.
[02:44] <Hobbsee> one gets blasted for acting, or one gets blasted for not acting.  pick your poison.
[02:45]  * Seeker` => bed
[02:45] <somerville32> I rather focus my efforts on packaging than the politics of Ubuntu IRC
[02:45] <mneptok> Hobbsee: sounds like a case of Jdub Syndrome
[02:45] <Hobbsee> mneptok: how so?
[02:45] <mneptok> Hobbsee: not been folowing the GNOME soap opera the past 48 hours?
[02:45] <mneptok> +l
[02:47] <mneptok> http://planet.gnome.org
[02:47] <Hobbsee> only vaguely
[02:47] <mneptok> 21:43 < Hobbsee> one gets blasted for acting, or one gets blasted for not acting.  pick your poison.   (sounds like something jdub would be thinking)
[02:48] <Hobbsee> ah yes, true
[02:48] <jdong> has that drama calmed down yet?
[02:49] <jdong> or is Gentoo Now Hiring?
[02:49] <mneptok> emerge sanity
[02:49] <jdong> sorry, hard-masked ~arch :)
[02:49] <LjL> the gentoo guys certainly look 200% saner than us from what i can see.
[02:49] <LjL> perhaps 2000%, although perhaps i just haven't seen enough.
[02:51] <mneptok> i'd rather have an insane community than an insane build system.
[02:51] <mneptok> but that's me.
[02:51]  * jdong used to be deep into Gentoo-dom :)
[02:52] <jdong> it was a bit hectic and flaky at times...
[02:52] <LjL> can't say i disagree, but while i have nothing to contribute to the build system, i deal with the community to some extent.
[02:52] <Hobbsee> mneptok: our build system is already crackful enough as it is.  it doesn't need more crack, thanks.
[02:53] <mneptok> Hobbsee: what we need are binary packages for *every configure option the app has*
[02:54]  * Hobbsee kills mneptok
[02:54] <mneptok> sudo apt-get install apache2-with-threads-no-ssl-no-persistent-with-cgi
[02:54] <Hobbsee> hehe :)
[02:54] <mneptok> wooo! we'll show those --fomg-fast Gentooists!
[02:55] <Dave2> argh. I shouldn't've looked at this channel when I'm this tired and...that...is being "discussed". my mind's natural defences to such things are in a weakened state.
[02:56]  * mneptok configures Dave2 with --background-enabled
[02:56]  * Dave2 looks behind him, sees his wall replaced with an Ubuntu logo
[02:57] <mneptok> Dave2: don't. turn. around.
[02:57] <nalioth> Dave2: are you following me?
[02:57] <ajmitch> oh man, did I miss a nice long debate again?
[02:58] <ajmitch> that's just not fair
[02:58] <Dave2> nalioth, I couldn't if I tried!
[02:58] <LjL> "nice long debate"
[02:58] <LjL> uhm, yes
[02:58] <ajmitch> ah, nalioth... just the one I wanted to hunt down :)
[02:59]  * nalioth didn't do it
[03:00] <ajmitch> heh
[03:00] <ajmitch> unregistered (non-ubuntu) channel, ~10 people, noone has ops
[03:00] <ajmitch> what can I do?
[03:00] <nalioth> depends on the channel
[03:00] <crdlb> ask them all to leave? :)
[03:01] <ajmitch> asking them all to leave works if people aren't idling
[03:01] <ajmitch> which is a popular pastime on IRC
[03:02] <mneptok> ajmitch: set +l 1 and wait for /quits and /parts and splits to do the work
[03:02] <mneptok> oh.
[03:03] <mneptok> duh. sorry. brain fart.
[03:03] <ajmitch> :)
[03:03]  * mneptok goes back to cleaning his brain with meth
[03:03] <ajmitch> if I could, it wouldn't be a problem
[03:03] <nalioth> mneptok: no ops  :|
[03:05] <mneptok> oo! i know!
[03:05] <mneptok> figlet 'YO YO YO HOMIES' | cowsay
[03:05] <mneptok> then paste paste paste until everyone can't stand it anymore and leaves
[03:05] <ajmitch> we could always do it the efnet way
[03:08] <LjL> err
[03:08] <ajmitch> :)
[03:51] <Amaranth> vorian: +m only makes people not able to change nicks, it doesn't keep them from talking in other channels
[03:52] <vorian> Amaranth: it's the +i i was worried about
[03:52] <vorian> i i  :)
[03:52] <Amaranth> same with +i
[03:52] <Amaranth> it just means they can't go there
[03:53] <Amaranth> vorian: Also, do you run some loco group?
[03:53] <vorian> yep :)
[03:53] <vorian> Ohio
[03:53] <vorian> you should move here
[03:53] <Amaranth> No, I meant some overarching group
[03:54] <vorian> hmm
[03:54] <vorian> difficult to explain
[03:55] <vorian> Amaranth: this will explain better than I could https://wiki.ubuntu.com/USTeams
[03:56] <Amaranth> btw, i would but the buckeyes suck :P
[03:56] <vorian> :)
[03:56] <vorian> I was going to say you should move here because it's always dreary
[03:56] <vorian> and flat
[03:58] <Amaranth> It's pretty flat in nebraska too
[03:59] <vorian> pfft, and you say the buckeyes suck
[03:59]  * vorian hides
[04:02] <mneptok> Amaranth: since when are you in .ne?
[04:03] <Amaranth> vorian: I hate the cornhuskers too
[04:03] <crdlb> nebraska has its own TLD? :o
[04:03] <Amaranth> mneptok: Well as far as the government is concerned I'm still in Iowa, at least until after the primaries :P
[04:03] <vorian> lol
[04:03] <Amaranth> Yay voter fraud
[04:04] <mneptok> Amaranth: please use the term "gubmint" as long as a Texan is in the White House
[04:04] <vorian> Amaranth: don't you have to pay to vote in Iowa primaries?
[04:04] <Amaranth> *shrug*
[04:04] <crdlb> mneptok: he's from Connecticut :)
[04:04] <Amaranth> was too young last time
[04:04] <mneptok> crdlb: no, he's not.
[04:04] <vorian> Maine
[04:04] <Amaranth> vorian: I'd say no
[04:04] <mneptok> crdlb: being born in New Haven does not make you "from Connecticut"
[04:05] <vorian> lol
[04:05] <mneptok> crdlb: and you can spell Connecticut. are you from Connecticut?
[04:05] <crdlb> haha
[04:06] <crdlb> no, just a somewhat good speller :)
[04:06]  * mneptok is ;)
[04:06] <crdlb> I could tell...
[04:06] <mneptok> born in NJ, but from CT
[04:08] <vorian> mneptok: I lived in Groton for a very shot time
[04:08] <crdlb> you shot time?
[04:09] <vorian> holy!
[04:09] <vorian> shorrrrt
[04:09] <vorian> :)
[04:11] <mneptok> vorian: EB?
[04:11] <mneptok> or USN?
[04:11] <vorian> USN
[04:12] <vorian> It was actually New London
[04:12] <mneptok> yeah, it's still all EB-related
[04:13] <mneptok> as there's jack-all else in the area ;)
[04:37] <ubotu> xsacha called the ops in #kubuntu ()
[04:46] <davidrawson> hello
[04:48] <nalioth> hi davidrawson
[04:49] <nalioth> davidrawson: is there something we can help you with?
[04:50] <davidrawson> I am banned from #ubuntu, I've never even been to that channel
[04:52] <nalioth> i don't show any bans in #ubuntu
[05:02] <nalioth> anything else we can help you with, davidrawson ?
[05:02] <davidrawson> no
[05:04] <nalioth> we discourage idling in here  :)
[05:06] <Hobbsee> nalioth: you missed mez's ban
[05:06] <somerville32> mez was banned?
[05:07] <Hobbsee> no
[05:07] <Hobbsee> he set david's ban.
[05:07] <Hobbsee> @btlogin
[05:07] <nalioth> Hobbsee: i didn't see it as an IP or nick ban
[05:08] <Hobbsee> nalioth<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[05:08] <nalioth> interesting
[05:09] <Hobbsee> oh, i see.
[05:14] <Tm_T> now that you kids have got your kick-play, can we just try to be "as an example to others, sirs
[05:14]  * Tm_T is old and boring
[05:57] <Hobbsee> the guy's going to get nuked from all the channels, soon
[06:01] <Tm_T> ?
[06:01]  * Hobbsee bans from -motu
[06:01] <Hobbsee> oh, davidrawson, who was here already
[06:02] <Tm_T> ok, don't know him
[06:04]  * Tm_T check logs
[07:37] <Mez> @btlogin
[07:38] <somerville32> Hi Gary
[07:42] <GazzaK> naughty peer
[08:26] <Tm_T> Gary: I am
[08:27] <Gary> I think, therefore I am...
[08:33] <ubotu> cool called the ops in #ubuntu (andreles)
[08:51] <somerville32> needhelp keeps spamming random channels
[08:52] <somerville32> * [needhelp] (n=andreles@81-7-78-206.ip.zebra.lt): andrelesss
[08:52] <Tm_T> somerville32: what channels?
[08:53] <somerville32> -motu and -devel
[08:53] <Tm_T> ahha
[08:53] <Tm_T> call !ops there?
[08:53] <Hobbsee> he's already quit...
[08:53] <Hobbsee> what's the point?
[08:54] <Tm_T> he actually do it in maaany channels
[08:54] <GazzaK> and -offtopic, freenode, defocus, etc etc
[08:54] <Tm_T> and +1 and #kde*-devel
[08:54] <Tm_T> and
[08:54] <GazzaK> it needs a k-line, not channel bans
[08:54] <Tm_T> you got the point
[08:54] <Tm_T> yup
[08:54] <tomaw> done
[08:54] <Tm_T> tomaw: thank you sirss
[08:55] <tomaw> wasn't me :)
[09:00] <Tm_T> see ss
[13:17] <Pici> no floodbots?
[13:18] <stdin> they're in -ops-monitor
[13:18] <Pici> aha
[14:12] <ubotu> FloodBot3 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (mass join)
[14:12] <ubotu> FloodBot2 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (mass join)
[14:12] <ubotu> FloodBot1 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (mass join)
[14:13] <ubotu> FloodBot2 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (CTCP attack)
[14:13] <ubotu> FloodBot1 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (CTCP attack)
[14:13] <ubotu> FloodBot3 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (CTCP attack)
[14:13] <ubotu> stdin called the ops in #ubuntu ()
[14:15] <tonyyarusso> that was absurd....
[14:16] <LjL-Temp> cool, i was missed from the k train
[14:16] <Gary> madness
[14:16] <Amaranth> I guess the bot works
[14:16] <Amaranth> Never seen that many klines before though
[14:17] <Amaranth> That was pretty awesome :D
[14:17] <Pici> LjL: great job on the bots
[14:17] <Amaranth> I've got like 3 screens of nothing but K-lined
[14:17] <Pici> our bots, that is
[14:17] <Amaranth> if FloodBot would have been in #ubuntu it would have stopped that
[14:18]  * Hobbsee ponders requesting logs
[14:18] <stdin> they all quit with excess flood soon after
[14:19] <LjL> Pici, i have no idea how it behaved, i just joined
[14:19] <LjL> did it warn?
 FloodBot3 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (mass join)
 FloodBot2 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (CTCP attack)
[14:20] <stdin> LjL: quick log dump http://stdin.pastebin.com/d5fe3f7cd
[14:20] <LjL> thanks
[14:20] <LjL> Amaranth: is that just a snippet and they really made redundant calls, or is that actually all?
[14:21] <Amaranth> so the fact that it knew a mass join was happening means if it was controlling #ubuntu it would have stopped it, no?
[14:21] <LjL> Amaranth: yes
[14:21] <Amaranth> All 3 bots said those 2 things
[14:21] <Amaranth> hrm my nick completion is broken again
[14:21] <tonyyarusso> LjL: are the bots on separate hosts?
[14:21] <LjL> tonyyarusso: two of them are on the same host currently, but that's the plan
[14:22] <tonyyarusso> ah
[14:22] <LjL> Amaranth: ok, just wanted to know that (that won't be a problem though once they're all +q'd, now they aren't to let me debug stuff)
[14:22] <RichiH> i would suggest you guys set +J on #ubuntu
[14:22] <RichiH> it would help during those floods
[14:22] <Amaranth> hehe
[14:22] <RichiH> (not that we take long to nuke them ;)
[14:23] <Amaranth> We've actually got something else we're testing
[14:23] <LjL> RichiH, +J has been discussed at length, used, then removed, then used, then removed, now we're experimenting with bots that set +l
[14:23] <RichiH> but still, hammering -unregged is a lot less fun for botrunners
[14:23] <PriceChild> Why would they have removed the channel limit?
[14:23] <RichiH> ah, k
[14:23] <RichiH> eggdrops can do that
[14:23] <RichiH> #debian uses debhelper
[14:23] <LjL> PriceChild, dunno yet, but since two bots quit with excess flood, the other bot will have set -l because of that
[14:23] <RichiH> keep in mind that +l hurts during netsplits
[14:24] <RichiH> +J does not
[14:24] <LjL> RichiH, +l doesn't hurt during netsplits if it's set with care
[14:24] <Amaranth> Not if the bot detects netsplits?
[14:24] <RichiH> LjL: 'with care' meaning choosing a threshold so high as to not have any effect ;)
[14:25] <LjL> RichiH: uhm, no, it means detecting netsplits and lifting +l when they happen
[14:25] <RichiH> Amaranth: if the bot sets -l during splits, that is fine, yah
[14:25] <Amaranth> but +J always either caught users or left us wide open
[14:25] <LjL> RichiH, they set -l as soon as they detect that anything is not quite right.
[14:25] <RichiH> LjL: ah, cool
[14:25] <Pici> RichiH: We're running our limiter bots right now, but they arent setting the +l in #ubuntu until we iron out all the bugs
[14:25] <LjL> actually, they're so careful that they can probably be exploited by an attacker who wants to set -l, somehow
[14:25] <Amaranth> Most of our users would not even realize they'd been bumped to -unregged and just assume we hate them
[14:25] <LjL> Pici: err no we aren't running them, they've excess flooded :)
[14:25] <RichiH> LjL: you could hand the source to dondelelcaro, he might like to run it in #debian, as well
[14:26] <Pici> LjL: er, well we were
[14:26] <RichiH> do they set modes only?
[14:26] <LjL> RichiH: maybe, currently they're still doing test runs and aren't quite ready though
[14:26] <LjL> RichiH, no
[14:26] <RichiH> kk
[14:26] <LjL> RichiH: join #ubuntu-ops-monitor please
[14:38] <LjL> was there a DCC exploit attempted during the attack?
[14:42] <tonyyarusso> yes
[14:42] <tonyyarusso> many
[14:42] <Pici> kind of
[14:42] <LjL> then why aren't they logged
[14:42] <Gary> I saw lots of "Received a CTCP keys.exe from DeaTHClowN (to #ubuntu)
[14:42] <Gary> " type attempts
[14:42] <tonyyarusso> I think they actually intended to send a real file and screwed up
[14:42] <LjL> Gary, not that, DCC SEND or DCC CHAT
[14:42] <Pici> "requested unknown CTCP keys.exe from #ubuntu"
[14:42] <LjL> the old one
[14:42] <tonyyarusso> no
[14:42] <stdin> didn't get any DCC messages
[14:43] <LjL> hm
[14:43] <LjL> weird
[14:43] <Pici> none of the stuff that we typically test for
[14:43] <LjL> the bots banforwarded some people to -read-topic
[14:43] <LjL> yet they didn't register any attack, either
[14:43] <LjL> that is any dcc send exploit kind of attack
[14:44] <Pici> I would think that they wouldnt try that method of attack since these zombie machines' routers probably arent patched against it
[14:44] <tonyyarusso> good point
[14:44] <PriceChild> If they have half a brain between them they would connect on a non-standard port
[14:44] <LjL> hehe
[14:45] <LjL> anyway, why did my darn bots get triggered by NO attack
[14:45] <Gary> thats asking a lot PriceChild
[14:45] <LjL> (the reason they flooded out, on the other hand, is quite obvious and all in all expected)
[14:45] <PriceChild> LjL, maybe they flooded out before they reported the attack?
[14:46] <LjL> PriceChild: nope, that sort of attack is only shown in the logs, not reported to the channel
[14:46] <LjL> except that it isn't
[14:49] <ubotu> Arelis called the ops in #ubuntu ()
[14:50]  * Pici headdesks
[14:50] <tonyyarusso> bots > human
[14:51] <Pici> I for one welcome our floodbot overlords
[15:34] <LjL> [16:33:53] <weisswursts> /exec cat /dev/urandom
[15:34] <LjL> our wursts are back
[15:35] <LjL> PM:
[15:35] <LjL> [16:35:19] <weisswursts> wait
[15:35] <LjL> [16:35:23] <weisswursts> why did you ban me?
[15:36] <Pici> I dont even have a witty comment for that.
[15:36] <LjL> [16:35:46] <LjL> you know why pretty well
[15:36] <LjL> [16:36:03] <weisswursts> what's the problem with /exec cat /dev/urandom?
[15:36] <ikonia> LjL: did he really say that ?
[15:37] <LjL> he did indeed
[15:37] <LjL> i think i know this guy, this time he's "wursts" in the plural, but still versanet
[15:39] <ikonia> white sausage
[15:39] <LjL> on ##windows:  [16:38:35] <weisswursts> i love windows  [16:38:40] <weisswursts> i think bill gates is sexy
[15:39] <ikonia> I think that translagtes as
[15:39] <LjL> keep an eye on other ubuntu channels, i'm pretty sure he'll join
[15:39] <ikonia> ooh my word
[15:39] <ikonia> ok
[15:40] <Gary> do we have to wait till he says something?  or ban on sight?
[15:41] <Gary> :p
[15:41] <ikonia> ha ha ha
[15:41] <Gary> we could do a pre-emtive banforward? :p
[15:41] <stdin> "S_L_U_T_Boy" should be kicked now :p
[15:42] <ubotu> FloodBot1 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (CTCP attack)
[15:42] <ubotu> FloodBot2 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (CTCP attack)
[15:42] <ikonia> whos pinnging ubuntu
[15:42] <ubotu> FloodBot3 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (CTCP attack)
[15:42] <ubotu> tomasko called the ops in #ubuntu ()
[15:42] <ubotu> FloodBot1 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (CTCP attack)
[15:42] <ubotu> FunnyLookinHat called the ops in #ubuntu ()
[15:42] <ubotu> FloodBot2 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (CTCP attack)
[15:42] <ubotu> FloodBot3 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (CTCP attack)
[15:44] <Mez> I likes the CTCP flooding stuff
[15:44] <Mez> does it detect DCC exploits too LjL ?
[15:44] <LjL> Mez: yes
[15:45] <LjL> Mez: it doesn't say anything about them, just banforwards everyone who quits
[15:45] <Mez> lol
[15:45] <ikonia> genius
[15:45] <Pici> Whats the !ignore the mess factoid?
[15:45] <PriceChild> LjL, quits, or quits with certain messages?
[15:45] <Pici> nevermind, I remember
[15:46] <Mez> !traffic
[15:46] <ubotu> NOTICE - There is a lot of traffic in this channel at the moment. Please try to keep your sentences into a single message, avoid repeating the same question multiple times, use http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org for pasting, remember to mention the nickname of the person you're addressing, and join #ubuntu-offtopic for anything that is not Ubuntu support. Thank you for understanding!
[15:46]  * Gary hides from all the factoids
[15:46] <Pici> !feeding the troll
[15:46] <ubotu> The above mess was caused by someone who thought it was funny (they're gone now). Please ignore it completely, since discussing it and making a fuss will only make them think they've reached their "fun" goal.
[15:47] <Mez> !factoid | Gary
[15:47] <ubotu> Gary: I am ubotu, all-knowing infobot. You can browse my brain at http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi - Usage info: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBots
[15:47] <Gary> phew
[15:47] <Gary> got me worried there
[15:53] <Pici> Are we clear for -r?
[15:55] <ikonia> looks good
[15:55] <Pici> LjL: -r?
[15:56] <Pici> ikonia: I think so too, but I'm not a good judge of this yet
[15:56] <LjL> we'll have another i suspect, but yeah
[15:57] <ikonia> Pici: looks like your a good judge :D
[15:57] <LjL> they'd just wait until we -r anyway to make another attack, so it really makes no sense to keep +r for too long
[16:06] <Gary> argh, why do people have to try to be so smart...
[16:06] <Pici> LjL: Whats the escalation path for a user who is spamming not only #ubuntu with stuff, is it worth a (!)staff, or do we go to #freenode or what?
[16:06] <LjL> Pici, it was already reported in #freenode, if you're talking about arsirc
[16:06] <Pici> yes
[16:06] <DaSkreech> Oh wait
[16:06] <Pici> Do you think thats the right place to do it?
[16:06] <LjL> i've never used any escalation path
[16:06] <LjL> i don't know
[16:06] <DaSkreech> this isn't about the wiki
[16:06] <Pici> Okay ;)
[16:07] <Pici> DaSkreech: No, its not.
[16:07] <DaSkreech> which chan would be the wiki chan?
[16:07] <LjL> #ubuntu-doc
[16:07] <Pici> -doc or -docs iirc
[16:07]  * Pici shakes head at 'escalation path'
[16:07] <Pici> I've been spending too much time at work
[16:08] <Gary> gordonjcp is annoying
[16:09] <LjL> Pici, basically i've mostly only been in ubuntu channels, so i've never quite been able to tell whether a troll was network-wide trolling. now i'm exchanging some information with the gentoo operators at least, seems they know how to handle this :)
[16:09] <Gary> I asked him in #ubuntu to not use rude words, and he has spent the last 20 minutes telling me how "it's only particularly offensive to Orcadians, and at that only Orcadians from Twat"
[16:10] <LjL> Gary: what a tobolostear you are
[16:10] <Gary> right, thats it, I'mm off to eat a dictionary
[16:10] <LjL> Gary, i made that word up :)
[16:11] <Gary> yeah, just figured that out
[16:11] <Gary> "gordonjcp> bear in mind that there are a lot of people in the channel who don't necessarily know English as a first language, and are maybe not as well-versed in its rude words" - trolling anyone?
[16:11] <Gary> anyways, work
[16:20] <ikonia> Gary: if they are asked to stop they should just stop
[16:20] <ikonia> in terms of language
[16:20] <ikonia> not argue it
[16:20] <ikonia> its not offensive where I am etc etc
[16:20] <Gary> exactly
[16:20] <ikonia> like pete83 was
[16:22] <Gary> he did stop the language in the channel, just argued it in pm
[16:22] <stdin> that's what /ignore was invented for
[16:23] <Pici> I don't use ignore
[16:23] <PriceChild> We shouldn't use ignore, silence at the most.
[16:24] <LjL> and i still wonder why we would, arguing with trolls is fun
[16:24] <stdin> I mean for abuse in /msg, /ignore for a couple mins and they stop, so you can remove the ignore
[16:24] <LjL> and if you don't want to argue, just seeing them talking to themselves and saying nonsense in your PMs is still fun
[16:24] <PriceChild> stdin, use silence in that case, and don't bother removing it.
[16:25] <stdin> do all clients have that?
[16:25] <PriceChild> freenode feature I thought?
[16:25] <LjL> stdin, /ignore affects channels too, so it shouldn't be used by ops
[16:25] <LjL> yeah it's a freenode feature
[16:25] <stdin> ooh, didn't know that
[16:25] <stdin> about /silence
[16:25] <Pici> I just switch windows away from the troll if I dont want to listen to them
[16:26] <LjL> indeedy
[16:26] <Pici> Plus whatever they're saying probably is good to have logged anyway.
[16:26] <LjL> indeedy
[16:26] <LjL> plus, as i said, it's better than sunday comics.
[16:32] <Gary> I did ignore (not /ignore) him in the end, and yes it was funny
[16:35] <LjL> told you so :)
[17:52] <ikonia> sdfsdfsdfssdf
[17:53] <jussi01> ikonia: is that code for something? :P
[17:53] <nalioth> yes, it is.
[17:54] <ikonia> sorry
[17:54] <jussi01> nalioth: code for "my 3 year old kid just hit the keyboard randomly"??
[17:54] <ikonia> stupid machine was lagging off the chart
[17:54] <ikonia> so keypresses from another sesion appeared in this window randomly
[17:55] <ikonia> sorry guys
[17:55] <ikonia> better in here than #ubuntu though
[17:55] <jussi01> ikonia: its all good ;)
[17:55] <ikonia> ta
[18:01] <Radi01> yes
[18:02] <Pici> yes?
[18:02] <PriceChild> Silly man.
[18:02] <PriceChild> From #ubuntu
[18:02] <Pici> yes, I missed most of his issue, my ISP appears to want me to yell at them
[18:02] <ubotu> In #ubuntu, daemon3 said: ubotu, where is volume control?
[18:09] <Pici> jimmacdonald: I know I asked you this already, but I'm still not sure why you are here.
[19:10] <nalioth> !botsnack
[19:10] <ubotu> Yum! Err, I mean, APT!
[19:15] <no0tic> ahah
[20:09] <ikonia> evening guys
[20:09] <ikonia> nalioth: thank you for your advice on apple the other week, I purchased the ipod touch for the gift. Your input was appriciated
[20:13] <tonyyarusso> ikonia: what kind of advice did you get?
[20:13]  * tonyyarusso has a nano, but is kind of sad it can't run rockbox
[20:14] <ikonia> tonyyarusso: nalioth talked through the iphone/touch with me and gave me some opinons and links
[20:14] <ikonia> I had to buy a gift for someone and was torn between touch and iphone
[20:14] <ikonia> I don't like either so was not the best person to ask
[20:14] <tonyyarusso> ah
[20:15] <PriceChild> Hey kane77, how can I help?
[20:15] <nalioth> ikonia: let's hope it's appreciated  :)
[20:15] <kane77> hi.. pici told me I could ask here...
[20:15] <Pici> sure, blame me right off the bat...
[20:15] <kane77> sorry :)
[20:16] <nalioth> kane77: ask what?
[20:16] <kane77> I realised that #ubuntu-sk just forwards to #ubuntu-cz.. could there be #ubuntu-sk?
[20:16] <kane77> (sk stands for slovak)
[20:17] <tonyyarusso> Is there a loco team with a designated contact for Slovakia?
[20:17] <nalioth> tonyyarusso: it shouldn't matter (it shouldn't forward to the Czechs)
[20:18] <PriceChild> I blame jenda.
[20:18] <tonyyarusso> nalioth: Ah, ok
[20:18] <tonyyarusso> rofl
[20:18]  * jenda pleads guilty
[20:18] <PriceChild> -ChanServ-      Contact: rejden << ONLINE >>
[20:18] <kane77> tonyyarusso, yes there s...
[20:18] <kane77> *is
[20:18] <jenda> the slovaks decided to forward it themselves
[20:18] <mc44> jenda was trying to reunite the two countries
[20:18] <mc44> again
[20:19] <jenda> rejden is the contact of the slovakian team
[20:19] <mc44> jenda: when will you let it go!"
[20:19] <jenda> mc44: well, that's what the army in my back yard is for, not this :)
[20:19] <nalioth> Pici: #ubuntu-irc is the better channel to guide folks to in regards to #ubuntu channels
[20:19] <kane77> jenda, i'm not saying it's bad, but it'd be nice to have one ;)
[20:20] <Pici> nalioth: I didn't even know that existed.
[20:20] <jenda> so, kane77: yes, there could be an -sk, but the SK team decided not to have one.
[20:20] <Pici> nalioth: I've noted it.
[20:27] <kane77> jenda, well ok, but at least set ubotu to speak slovak on !sk :)
[20:28]  * jenda blames PriceChild
[20:28] <jenda> PriceChild: who can do that? :)
[20:28] <PriceChild> jenda, hmm?
[20:28] <PriceChild> ask rejden to suggest it?
[20:29] <jenda> PriceChild: suggest it to whom?
[20:29] <Pici> kane77: Ubotu doesnt speak anything... its factoids are just text that we put it in.
[20:29] <Pici> s/it//
[20:30] <PriceChild> jenda, erm.... me?
[20:30] <jenda> I s'pose kane77 could make the factoid for us
[20:30] <kane77> Pici, of course, I know.. :)
[20:30] <PriceChild> that then
[20:30] <Pici> kane77: oh, you meant for !sk?
[20:30] <kane77> Pici, yes
[20:30] <Pici> kane77: Ah, I misread.
[20:30] <mneptok> holy kark. it's jenda!
[20:31] <jenda> kane77: make us the factoid for it to say
[20:31] <Pici> Theres already enough people in #ubuntu who try to talk to ubotu, so I don't assume anything.
[20:31] <jenda> kane77: my slovak is hardly good enough for that :)
[20:31] <jenda> holy lark, it's mneptok!
[20:31] <jenda> mneptok and mc44 - the only two people I really am afraid of even over IRC.
[20:31] <Tm_T> where?!
[20:31]  * Tm_T hides
[20:31] <mc44> :O
[20:32] <mc44> I'm nowhere near as scary as mneptok
[20:32] <jenda> mc44: true
[20:32] <Pici> mneptok is pretty scary.
[20:32] <jenda> I mean, it took me a while to overcome my fear of nalioth and Seveas, but with them, you at least know you're safe if you behave :)
[20:32] <mneptok> ubotu: sk is <reply>prepacte, hovorite po anglicky?
[20:32] <ubotu> In #ubuntu-ops, mneptok said: ubotu: sk is <reply>prepacte, hovorite po anglicky?
[20:32] <mneptok> bah
[20:33] <jenda> mneptok: :D
[20:33] <kane77> just a sec...
[20:33] <mneptok> O:)
[20:33] <kane77> (and lol)
[20:34] <tonyyarusso> Err, does that say something along the lines of "What, you don't like English?" ?
[20:35] <jenda> tonyyarusso: nope, it's more like "do you speak English?"
[20:35] <tonyyarusso> jenda: ah
[20:35] <tonyyarusso> Well, I got two words.
[20:35]  * jenda has just finished cooking a huge pot of goulash
[20:35]  * mneptok just finished cooking a huge pot of Hungarians
[20:36] <Tm_T> jenda: is that an invite?
[20:36] <jenda> mneptok: our Slovakian friends would love you :)
[20:36] <jenda> Tm_T: no, this one is for my classmates :)
[20:36] <Tm_T> :(
[20:36] <jenda> The Charles University Notor Club, to be precise.
[20:36] <PriceChild> jenda, "classmates"?
[20:36] <mneptok> jenda: it's also quite a popular dish in Austria and Romania :)
[20:37] <mc44> he's going to poison all his classmates so he moves up the curve. jenda will be an excellent lawyer
[20:37] <jenda> mneptok: some people just have talent to upset their neighbours :)
[20:37] <jenda> mc44: not at all, these are avid supporters ;)
[20:37]  * mneptok feigns innocence
[20:37] <mc44> jenda: careful, it might be a coup!
[20:37] <jenda> Although they still prolly lost me them elections by voting for the other guy /too/
[20:38] <jenda> (the downside of having two votes each)
[20:38] <jenda> mc44: on second thought, poisoning might not be a bad idea :)
[20:39]  * jenda thinks he'll have to protect the pot of goulash so as to prevent the drunkards from spicing it with some dope.
[20:39] <jenda> :)
[20:40] <somerville32> eww dope
[20:42] <somerville32> jenda, Can you make #ubuntu-fredericton fwd to #ubuntu-ca?
[20:43] <jenda> somerville32: I'd need a request either from the channel contact, or from the IRC council...
[20:43] <jenda> PriceChild?
[20:44] <PriceChild> What is fredericton?
[20:44] <somerville32> A city I live in :P
[20:45] <somerville32> Some of the ubuntu users here created it
[20:45] <PriceChild> wait...
[20:45] <PriceChild> why does sk forward to cz if they are different languages?
[20:45] <PriceChild> So what's wrong with fredericton staying dead? :/
[20:49] <jdong> jenda: you spoke!!!
[20:50] <jdong> that's like amazing
[20:50] <PriceChild> jdong, i've been watching him speak another language... how much more amazing is that!
[20:50] <somerville32> PriceChild, Whats wrong with forwarding it to -ca so people don't get lost? :P
[20:51] <PriceChild> somerville32, I'm confused as to how someone would be finding -fredericton
[20:51] <jdong> PriceChild: meh the fact that he's alive and not <censored girlfriend activities>ing is pretty amazing in its own
[20:51] <PriceChild> *grins*
[20:51] <PriceChild> jdong, he's cooking for "classmates"
[20:51] <somerville32> PriceChild, I often try random #ubuntu-xxx channels
[20:51] <PriceChild> no comment
[20:51] <jdong> PriceChild: O_O didn't know he's a groupie guy....
[20:52] <somerville32> PriceChild, The channel exists when it shouldn't so why not just forward it to -ca where it should be?
[20:52] <somerville32> :]
[20:52] <PriceChild> who says it shouldn't?
[20:52] <somerville32> Well, I founded the group :/
[20:52] <PriceChild> The contact's active, have you talked with him?
[20:52] <somerville32> PriceChild, Yea
[20:52] <somerville32> and he said "oops, I guess we'll hang out in #ubuntu-ca then"
[20:52] <PriceChild> you founded the fredericton group?
[20:53] <PriceChild> Well then if he agrees he can set the forward or just plain drop it?
[20:53] <somerville32> PriceChild, Yes, he can do that when he logs in. I just happened to remember it and asked Jenda to do it.
[20:53]  * somerville32 doesn't really care either way
[20:53] <nalioth> stop.
[20:53] <nalioth> somerville32: get the chanown to do it, please
[20:53] <PriceChild> hammer time!
[20:54]  * jdong smacks PriceChild
[20:54] <jdong> no hammer time.
[20:54] <PriceChild> Thankyou jdong.
[20:54] <jdong> heh and he likes being smacked up....
[20:55] <jenda> jdong: I've been <cga>ing just before I spoke ;)
[20:55] <jenda> 21:51 < somerville32> PriceChild, I often try random #ubuntu-xxx channels
[20:55] <jenda> 21:51 <+PriceChild> no comment
[20:55] <jdong> jenda: lol ;-)
[20:55] <jenda> If it weren't so internal, it'd be bash-worthy :D
[20:56] <jdong> jenda: err.... that's what she said?
[20:56] <PriceChild> oh gah I didn't mean that one in that way.....
[20:56] <PriceChild> I guess the way it appeared though is better so I take full credit.
[20:56] <jdong> lol isn't it too early in the day for this to become #ubuntu-innuendo?
[20:56] <PriceChild> But yes no reason to be stepping on people's toes... especially over such a dead channel.
[20:57] <jenda> PriceChild: wow, you're really getting professional ;)
[20:57] <PriceChild> jenda, hmm?
[20:58] <jenda> PriceChild: well, just praising the approach of not unnecessarily stepping on people's toes :)
[20:58] <PriceChild> ah
[20:59] <kane77> Žiadame slovenských používateľov aby v kanáli #ubuntu hovorili po anglicky.  Česky je možno se domluvit v #ubuntu-cz. Děkujeme.
[21:00] <PriceChild> !-sk
[21:00] <ubotu> sk is <alias> cz - added by jrib on 2007-11-20 14:31:39
[21:00] <PriceChild> !no sk is <reply> Žiadame slovenských používateľov aby v kanáli #ubuntu hovorili po anglicky. Slovensky a Česky sa dohovoríte v #ubuntu-cz.
[21:00] <ubotu> I'll remember that PriceChild
[21:00] <PriceChild> !sk | kane77
[21:00] <ubotu> kane77: Žiadame slovenských používateľov aby v kanáli #ubuntu hovorili po anglicky. Slovensky a Česky sa dohovoríte v #ubuntu-cz.
[21:00] <kane77> yay
[21:00] <kane77> :)
[21:00] <kane77> cool thanx
[21:01] <mneptok> wait ... that says "Please submerge your fingertips in the invigorating acid. The words #ubuntu and #ubuntu-cz are here to fool the ops."
[21:01] <jenda> PriceChild: lowercase č, please :)
[21:01] <PriceChild> jenda, Česky ?
[21:01] <jenda> yep
[21:02] <jenda> the second case
[21:02] <PriceChild> !no sk is <reply> Žiadame slovenských používateľov aby v kanáli #ubuntu hovorili po anglicky. Slovensky a česky sa dohovoríte v #ubuntu-cz.
[21:02] <ubotu> I'll remember that PriceChild
[21:02] <kane77> yeah.. I wasn't too sure about that...
[21:02] <PriceChild> jenda, you have editors access you idle person :)
[21:08] <LjL> jenda, are the accents strictly necessary by the way? as a rule those factoids avoid anything non-ASCII, for languages which absolutely need it (such as non-latin ones) a double transcription is used
[21:08] <LjL> like
[21:08] <LjL> !ru
[21:08] <ubotu> Пожалуйста войдите в #ubuntu-ru для помощи на русском языке  /  Pozhalujsta vojdite v #ubuntu-ru dlq pomoshchi na russkom qzyke
[21:09] <jenda> PriceChild: I do?
[21:09] <jenda> LjL: well, in the internet world, you often see Czech without diacritics, but it is certainly not correct. Much more so than in french, for example. It can totally change the meaning :)
[21:09] <LjL> PriceChild: uhm why did you un-alias is?
[21:10] <PriceChild> LjL, because cz and sk are different?
[21:10] <LjL> jenda, does it change the meaning in *that* factoid? understandability is a priority over correctness, for language factoids
[21:10] <PriceChild> cz is saying "come here"
[21:10] <PriceChild> sk is saying "we're not here, but go there instead"
[21:10] <PriceChild> in different languages?
[21:11] <LjL> PriceChild: ah their loco channel doesn't do support?
[21:11] <PriceChild> LjL, no, just forwards to the cz channel
[21:11] <jenda> LjL: e.g. "Zaprášen" means dusty, while "Zaprasen" means filthy ;)
[21:12] <jenda> LjL: no, it doesn't change the meaning, but it belongs to the language. It's easier to read and understand if properly diacritic'd
[21:12] <LjL> so #ubuntu-cz is bilingual?
[21:13] <LjL> jenda: unless you aren't on utf-8
[21:13] <jenda> often, accents are the only difference between Czech and Slovak :)
[21:13] <jdong> jenda: meh same thing
[21:13] <jdong> ;-)
[21:13] <jdong> jenda: so do the words for LISP and SCHEME also differ by two accents?
[21:13] <jenda> LjL: you could say so... the languages are nearly identical and all Slovaks speak Czech, 99% of Czechs at least understand Slovak.
[21:14] <jenda> jdong: O_o
[21:14] <LjL> jenda: i see. well in that case i find it a good thing that the support channel is unified
[21:14] <LjL> contrary to, say, -pt and -br :)
[21:19] <jenda> :)
[21:22] <mneptok> it's a good idea to keep Brasilieros in their own Cube Of Exuberance
[21:23] <mneptok> "I AM MAKE THE LINUX HOTS CHATS TO YOU, SEXY CHICA AMERICAN BOOBLADIES!!!!!!! HUAHUAHUAHUAHUAHUAHUAHUA!!!!! GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOAL!!!!! JEJEJEJEJEJEJE!!!!!!!!!!!!"
[21:23] <Tm_T> .
[21:23] <mneptok> oh, never mind. you have your period.
[21:23] <jdong> mneptok: I AM THE TOMATO MONSTAH!!!
[21:24] <jdong> NO.. I .. AM... BEOWULF!!!!!
[21:24] <PriceChild> * jdong has quit (Excess Flood)
[21:24] <mneptok> i'm Grendachi. the Pokemon Grendel.
[21:25] <jdong> lol
[21:25] <mneptok> so i herd u liek mudkips ...
[21:25] <jdong> I watched beowulf with my friends when I went back home... still could not decide whether it was serious or a parody of 300.
[21:27] <PriceChild> jdong, never heard the story of beowulf before?
[21:27] <jdong> PriceChild: of course I have, I was referring specifically to the presentation of the 2007 film.
[21:44] <ubotu> KenSentMe called the ops in #ubuntu ()
[22:11]  * kane77 thinks it's dangerous to be in this channel - it's full of ops!
[22:11] <tonyyarusso> hehe
[22:11] <tonyyarusso> Rawr!
[22:16] <jsoftw> Ahh hello.
[22:16] <jsoftw> I am for some reason banned from #ubuntu.
[22:16] <jsoftw> And I dont know why.
[22:17] <jsoftw> I hardly even go into it
[22:17] <LjL> let's check
[22:18] <LjL> uhm, jsoftw, you might not join often, but you're not nice when you do
[22:19] <LjL> 2007-11-07T03:45:53 *** jsoftw has joined #ubuntu
[22:19] <LjL> 2007-11-07T03:46:00 <jsoftw> eww.
[22:19] <LjL> 2007-11-07T03:46:11 <jsoftw> It smells of smelly nerds in here.
[22:19] <LjL> 2007-11-07T03:46:26 <jsoftw> Have a shower, you guys.
[22:19] <jsoftw> lol.
[22:20] <somerville32> lol
[22:20]  * somerville32 smells jsoftw
[22:20] <jsoftw> I think you must have taken that entirely the wrong way.
[22:20] <somerville32> jsoftw, It is definitely you, by friend :P
[22:20] <somerville32> *my
[22:20] <ubotu> clarjon1 called the ops in #ubuntu ()
[22:21] <somerville32> lol @ LjL
[22:21] <tonyyarusso> what was that about?
[22:21]  * LjL headdesks
[22:21] <somerville32> LjL, That was amazing.
[22:21] <LjL> tonyyarusso: "wrong channel"
[22:21] <tonyyarusso> what channel was it supposed to be I wonder?
[22:21] <somerville32> LjL, You're like superman.
[22:21] <LjL> dunno, he's in #pclinuxos and ##linux
[22:22] <jsoftw> So. Any chance of getting un banned.
[22:22] <somerville32> LjL, One moment you're Lorenzo, the next you're Super-Op LjL :P
[22:22] <LjL> jsoftw, well, you said we took it the wrong way, but what's the right way to take it?
[22:22] <LjL> somerville32: i was going to be ljl-smoking-a-cigarette, but i guess that'll wait =P
[22:22] <somerville32> lol
[22:22] <jsoftw> Well most the other channels im in we mostly give each other cheek all the time
[22:23] <somerville32> LjL, Smoking is bad for your health :P
[22:23] <jsoftw> So I guess I thought I would get some back, not a ban.
[22:23] <somerville32> jsoftw, The jokes on you. LjL is just teasing you :P haha. funny, eh?
[22:23] <LjL> jsoftw: uhm, well i see, but please do keep in mind that #ubuntu is a busy channel which we intend for support *only*. offtopic chatter is not allowed, and what you said was perceived (by me) as an attempt to insult.
[22:23] <LjL> i'll unban you, but please check out the following
[22:23] <LjL> !etiquette > jsoftw    (jsoftw, see the private message from Ubotu)
[22:24] <LjL> especially the guidelines and CoC
[22:24] <jsoftw> Ok, thanks
[22:24] <somerville32> :)
[23:01] <ikonia> ughhhh why are people calling ubuntu ubun2
[23:04] <jdong> ikonia: it saves a letter!
[23:04] <LjL> ikonia: call them youbuntu in response
[23:04] <LjL> s/them/it/
[23:05] <jdong> ikonia: and one letter means a million pounds of carbon which means 5 million dead penguins a year
[23:05] <ikonia> it kills me
[23:06] <tonyyarusso> Well, and numbers are easier to process, so really it's like 1.6 letters.
[23:13] <ikonia> please autoban on the phrase ubun2
[23:14] <tonyyarusso> haha
[23:14] <tonyyarusso> I wish ikonia
[23:14] <ikonia> please
[23:14] <ikonia> please please please
[23:14] <tonyyarusso> ubonto too
[23:14] <ikonia> $10
[23:14] <ikonia> ooh yes
[23:14] <tonyyarusso> ikonia: Make it $499 to cover a new digital camera and you might have yourself a deal ;)
[23:15] <tonyyarusso> +6.5% sales tax
[23:15] <ikonia> ha ha ha ha
[23:15] <ikonia> I know you have taste so $200 and you make up the rest
[23:16] <tonyyarusso> :P
[23:16] <ikonia> I know it eats you too ;)
[23:17] <ikonia> sorry "I no it eats U 2"
[23:36] <mneptok> ikonia: o o i c u r 2 n-gr33!
[23:36] <ikonia> FU
[23:36] <ikonia> ;)
[23:37] <ikonia> n-gr23 ?
[23:37] <ikonia> can't work that one out
[23:37] <mneptok> "angry" ;)
[23:37] <Seeker`> you need to lose the 2nd "3" then
[23:37] <mneptok> and yeah, "FU" is pretty much the dead-on response to something like that
[23:38] <ikonia> ha ha ha
[23:38] <ikonia> nice
[23:38] <ikonia> I hate that sort of chat


[03:30] <nicfer> hello
[03:32] <nicfer> for a pc with 256mb ram I shall use the alternative install right?
[03:32] <wxl> nicfer: i'd recommend it
[03:33] <nicfer> also, I connect with an usb wifi adapter
[03:35] <wxl> are you asking or telling?
[03:35] <nicfer> does alt handle it? it's a rtl8187, dmesg tells me it's detected, but there is no iwconfig or something as far as I looked
[03:37] <holstein> nicfer: you end up with the same thing
[03:37] <holstein> nicfer: depends on the chipset... i would run lspci and search around
[03:39] <nicfer> it's usb... rtl8187, kernel detects it but t
[03:39] <nicfer> installer not
[03:42] <holstein> nicfer: i just install, and use the network with the installed os
[03:42] <holstein> i dont download with the installer
[15:30] <Kuroda_Shun> I have a question that may roll oyur eyes.... If my work pc is set up exactly the way I want it.. Can i save my image as an ISO with all the bells and whistles attached so I done have to "remember" all the software I have installed?
[15:32] <holstein> Kuroda_Shun: sure... its open technology, so the answer is pretty much always yes
[15:32] <Kuroda_Shun> holstein: yes... but what software does it?
[15:32] <holstein> now, what are easy ways to do that? ..typically, one might use the synaptic package manager to "save" basically a list of what is installed
[15:32] <Kuroda_Shun> i have a package list of my installs
[15:33] <holstein> then, you could save your home directory, *all* of it... even the hidden files, and that would restore your settings
[15:33] <holstein> when folks ask "how can i clone, or move my install?".. i usually suggest since its so close to what you would do for a backup, just take this time to make sure you have a good backup system in place
[15:33] <Kuroda_Shun> but I would like to "package" it into an iso to share
[15:34] <holstein> that could be as automated as using ubuntuone or something like dropbox, or literally dragging your files over to a USB drive
[15:34] <holstein> Kuroda_Shun: i have used clonezilla, a seperate live distro, for creating basically backup images of my installations
[15:34] <Kuroda_Shun> ok. thanks for all the info
[15:35] <holstein> since the linux kernel is modular, you can usually get away with taking a cloned install to another machine
[15:35] <Kuroda_Shun> thats what I want to do
[15:35] <holstein> there are also systems designed to do bacially *exactly* what you are trying to do, such as remastersys
[15:36] <holstein> i have had questionable success with remastersys and ubuntu customization kit..etc... so i usually just either manaually backup my data, or do a clonezilla clone
[15:37] <Kuroda_Shun> i dont really need to back up my data since i use Dropbox to work from.. But the package list is what I want to include in my .iso as well as the lubuntu install
[15:38] <Kuroda_Shun> so it is all installed together
[15:38] <Kuroda_Shun> ill read about clonezilla and remastersys
[15:38] <holstein> Kuroda_Shun: i choose not to do that.. packages change, and break.. and are you including a PPA? that could get problematic quick
[15:38] <Kuroda_Shun> ohh didn't think of that
[15:38] <holstein> but, anyways.. you can do literally any of the varieties of backup or cloing you want
[15:39] <holstein> cloning*
[15:40] <Kuroda_Shun> i want to keep it as slim limned as I possibly can.. to be able to re image my machine and be back up and running in about an hour :)
[15:40] <Kuroda_Shun> *linned
[15:40] <Kuroda_Shun> *lined
[15:40] <holstein> Kuroda_Shun: that also depends on what you want at the end.. how old your image is.. and how many upgrades are available, assuming you would want that
[15:41] <holstein> if your image is 6 months old and you are on a slow-ish network, it could take hours to do "sudo apt-get update" and "sudo apt-get upgrade"
[15:41] <holstein> that is not something that you can change with software
[15:41] <holstein> but, you can roll up whatever you want however you want
[15:42] <holstein> what do i do? i keep a manual copy or copies of my actual "important" data and the actual install is more flexible
[15:42] <Kuroda_Shun> that is how I do it already
[15:43] <holstein> i have a small list of applictaions that i like to use, and usually install, but sometimes i dont want them on every reinstallation, or i find better solutions, or newer versions.. or older, more compatible ones for my needs
[15:43] <Kuroda_Shun> but with a different linux image most of the time
[15:43] <holstein> i think what you are looking for is your own OS
[15:43] <holstein> and, you can see in a model such as any of the ubuntu variants, how challenging it can be to maintain that image
[15:44] <Kuroda_Shun> yeah, i dont have that kind of time to spare... nice thought though
[15:44] <holstein> not that you shoudnt try, or cant.. just that, ofr my needs, i find during maintaining those images, due to changes in my preferences, or upgrades or changes, i find that the efforts are a waste of time
[15:44] <Kuroda_Shun> thanks holstein, you are always here to sort me out
[15:45] <holstein> that being said, i dont reimage like 20 machines a month for a buisness
[15:45] <holstein> in that case, i probably would want to do more work on the front end
[15:45] <holstein> Kuroda_Shun: sure. anytime :)
[15:50] <boyOfClod> new to l ubuntu
[15:51] <boyOfClod> how to i change key layout after selecting try
[15:51] <boyOfClod> *do
[15:51] <holstein> boyOfClod: same as for a normal install
[15:52] <holstein> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1455877
[15:52] <holstein> http://askubuntu.com/questions/102344/switching-keyboard-layouts-in-lubuntu-11-10
[15:54] <boyOfClod> smaaaaaaaash
[15:54] <boyOfClod> :D
[15:57] <holstein> boyOfClod: you can check out the #lubuntu-offopic channel for chat.. thanks!
[16:01] <boyOfClod> failed to figure out how to alternate between qwerty and dvorak without manually changing in settings
[16:01] <boyOfClod> necessary for other users
[16:03] <holstein> boyOfClod: you can manually change is settings.. there are other settings managers
[16:03] <holstein> boyOfClod: when you install, you can set that up for whatever user
[16:15] <manOfClod> previously attempting to install lubuntu resulted in grub not installed
[16:15] <manOfClod> reattempting, so far so well
[16:44] <user> hello. Has anyone tried out any the latest 13.04 betas? Is 13.04 stable enough for home desktop use yet?
[16:46] <holstein> user: i would use #ubuntu+1 for the upcoming not yet released versions of ubuntu
[16:47] <holstein> user: its not a stable release, and "stable enough" is a matter of opinion
[16:48] <user> thanks
[17:56] <nicfer> hi
[17:57] <nicfer> I'm having dependency issues with the alternative installer
[17:57] <holstein> yeah?
[17:58] <holstein> nicfer: i would just install the OS, and dont add any extra packages there
[17:58] <holstein> after you get installed, then sudo apt-get update and install what you want.. and all should be well
[17:59] <nicfer> things like lubuntu-desktop depends on lxpanel-indicator applet but it isn't installable or similar
[18:00] <holstein> nicfer: i would check the iso you are using.. and dont insatll upgrades while you are installing
[18:03] <nicfer> I'm using a usb drive since this pc has no cd reader
[20:27] <DonaldDuck74> hi all
[20:27] <DonaldDuck74> someone knows how I can solve a problem connection with mimms
[20:29] <DonaldDuck74> the error is : mimms  mms://url...wmv    Connecting ...libmms error:


[00:26] <wgrant> blr: How's it going?
[00:30] <blr> wgrant: bit of a conundrum actually, zope testbrowser is apparently unable to set the disabled attribute on a control (set by js when the bzr setbranch form is hidden)
[00:31] <wgrant> blr: zope.testbrowser doesn't execute JavaScript.
[00:31] <blr> yep
[00:31] <wgrant> JS stuff should be testing using YUI3 unit tests.
[00:32] <wgrant> blr: Can you have a look at the buildbot failures soon to unblock landings?
[00:33] <blr> wgrant: sure
[00:33] <blr> wgrant: I suppose it doesn't matter, there's not much value in adding a new doctest.
[00:34] <wgrant> blr: Right, adjust existing doctests if need be, but avoid adding new bits.
[00:34] <wgrant> And don't attempt to test JS; it won't work.
[00:36] <blr> would be useful to look at moving new browser tests to phantomjs perhaps.
[00:51] <blr> wgrant: fixed the doctest, will grab some lunch and look at the smoketest failures
[02:13] <blr> wgrant: would it be better to drop requester from the repr, or ammend the permissions?
[02:13] <wgrant> blr: I'd amend the permissions, I think.
[02:13] <wgrant> blr: Pretty much everything can see Person anyway, so this is a one-liner in security.cfg
[02:22] <blr> wgrant: done, thanks. How do I go about poking buildbot?
[02:37] <wgrant> blr: bzr lp-land --testfix
[02:37] <wgrant> blr: Have you fixed all three failures?
[02:38] <blr> wgrant: yes, one doctest and the others were both resolved with permissions
[02:39] <wgrant> Yep
[02:40] <blr> wgrant: oh, need a new MP?
[02:40] <wgrant> blr: yep
[02:44] <blr> wgrant: https://code.launchpad.net/~blr/launchpad/dont-fear-the-repr/+merge/261338
[02:44] <wgrant> blr: lgtm
[02:45] <blr> wgrant: cheers (I'll leave you in peace to _actually_ be not here today)
[02:45] <wgrant> Feel free to ask questions. I'm around, just not around.
[02:45] <blr> wgrant: thanks :)
[03:31] <blr> wgrant: buildbot seems rather unhappy, unable to connect to db.
[03:37] <wgrant> blr: That's a normal flaky test.
[03:39] <blr> wgrant: ah good, had me worried.


[13:51] <sitter> balloons: do I create the hangout or you?
[13:51] <balloons> ahh sitter, there tiy are
[13:52] <balloons> sitter, if you are able, go for it. Create a hangout, then we simply paste the links into the page so it's updated to stream it
[13:52] <sitter> ok
[14:00] <balloons> sitter, looks like you are all set to go ;-)
[14:01] <sitter> Are we live?
[14:01] <balloons> sitter, indeed you are
[14:01] <ovidiu-florin> hello sexy people
[14:02] <ovidiu-florin> sitter ^
[14:02] <sgclark2> hello
[14:02] <ovidiu-florin> why isn't rohan in this channel?
[14:06] <sgclark2> yes I just went through that with trusty updates..
[14:11] <ovidiu-florin> why Ruby?
[14:13] <sgclark2> yes it has
[14:15] <balloons> can we see the CI reports you are looking at?
[14:15] <balloons> aka, can we browse the jenkins?
[14:15] <balloons> where do you host your CI scripts?
[14:16] <sick_rimmit> Looks to me like they're here
[14:16] <sick_rimmit> http://kci.pangea.pub/job/mgmt_tooling/
[14:16] <balloons> Can you give a high level overview of what you do as part of CI. You are performing daily builds, pulling from ppa's whose source exists where? and what do you do with the resulting build? is there a goal to have the builds always pass?
[14:16] <balloons> thanks sick_rimmit
[14:18] <shadeslayer> ovidiu-florin: just because both me and Harald were proficient in Ruby I think
[14:19] <balloons> seems we're getting some of my question answered now :-)
[14:19] <shadeslayer> balloons: we're preparing our source ourselves :)
[14:19] <shadeslayer> sick_rimmit: that is correct
[14:23] <balloons> so any tests that would be run, should be run as part of the upstream build. So you aren't performing any specific testing
[14:23] <balloons> you'll just build it and try and get a package to publish right?
[14:23] <shadeslayer> balloons: answer to that coming up
[14:33] <ovidiu-florin> sitter: please share your $PS1
[14:35] <ovidiu-florin> or what ever do you use to make your prompt like that
[14:37] <sgclark2> very important as I found out with the trusty packages
[14:39] <ovidiu-florin> show the graph when you explain
[14:39] <ovidiu-florin> and point to stuff
[14:41] <sick_rimmit> Please could you share some links
[14:43] <ovidiu-florin> sitter: how do you choose what KDE projects get into the CI?
[14:43] <sgclark2> jenkins has a ruby librarry that is much more extensive than python
[14:43] <sgclark2> api library that is
[14:48] <shadeslayer> ovidiu-florin: I think thats zsh + oh-my-zsh
[14:49] <ryanleesipes> popey, hello
[14:49] <ovidiu-florin> Can regular non technical people use the Stable CI?
[14:49] <popey> yo ryanleesipes
[14:49] <popey> just setting up
[14:51] <ovidiu-florin> show us how you add KDevelop in the CI
[14:53] <sgclark2> ovidiu-florin: the kf5 has not been done for kdevelop
[14:53] <sgclark2> port*
[14:53] <sgclark2> packaging that is
[14:53] <ovidiu-florin> how you ADD
[14:54] <ovidiu-florin> present thense
[14:54] <shadeslayer> ovidiu-florin: we can discuss that in #kubuntu-devel
[14:54] <ovidiu-florin> we should
[14:54] <sick_rimmit> Hey great job thank you
[14:54] <balloons> thanks sitter, rohan, et la!
[14:54] <sitter> Thx
[15:01] <justCarakas> you are live
[15:01] <cwayne-uos> hiya
[15:02] <cwayne-uos> hey youre live
[15:03] <Aaawesome> hey mycroft bring me muh beer
[15:04] <Aaawesome> was it brown??
[15:04] <Aaawesome> :D
[15:05] <Aaawesome> mardi is Aaawesome
[15:06] <cm-t__> o/
[15:22] <CheeseBurg> QUESTION: So if I understand correctly, Unity8 will have built in Mycroft support and intergration by default (when it is ready of course)?
[15:24] <autonomouse> QUESTION: Your kickstrter campaign encouraged people to buy multiple Mycroft units. Is there any plan for folks with multiple Mycrofts or a mycroft unit and ubuntu PC running Mycroft to synchronise (without involving the cloud)? i.e. some kind of decentralised/distributed way of making each of them know what you've said to the others? (maybe syncth
[15:24] <autonomouse> ing or something?)
[15:24] <ryanleesipes> Can you guys hear that?
[15:25] <mardi> yes, sound ok
[15:25] <autonomouse> QUESTION: Which version of Pyhon are you using?
[15:25] <CheeseBurg> Can the voice for Mindcroft be customized?
[15:25] <justCarakas> QUESTION will it also reply to just Mycroft instead of Okey Mycroft (reminds me of google)
[15:26] <justCarakas> there is echo
[15:27] <Guest86181> ryanleesipes: i thin you'e got both mics still on
[15:28] <CheeseBurg> QUESTION: Will Mycroft integrate with scopes? Applications?
[15:29] <Aaawesome> QUESTION: how did you find the unity8/snappy documentation?
[15:29] <Aaawesome> QUESTION: will the phone security restrictions be a problem for implementing mycroft?
[15:30] <ryanleesipes> Can you guys hear that?
[15:30] <CheeseBurg> No
[15:31] <CheeseBurg> phone looks nice tho
[15:32] <CheeseBurg> yes
[15:32] <justCarakas> we can hear you now
[15:36] <Aaawesome> QUESTION: on witch ubuntu phone are you testing mycroft?
[15:37] <Elleo> 49
[15:37] <Elleo> oops
[15:40] <CheeseBurg> QUESTION: Are you working to integrate Mycroft into other desktop environments? Has there been interest?
[15:40] <CheeseBurg> Mycroft + HUD = killer feature!!!
[15:43] <foaf> QUESTION: will the initial code be available to look at in the short term or only a more final version when you start shipping?
[15:44] <CheeseBurg> Imagine have Mycroft support in the SDK
[15:49] <willcooke> QUESTION:  How's the design of the Mycroft hardware coming along?  Do you have a unit we can see?
[15:50] <CheeseBurg> Thanks! I'll definitely follow Mycroft more closely
[15:51] <foaf> awesome, look forward to fiddling around!
[15:51] <willcooke> cute!!
[15:54] <willcooke> thanks ryanleesipes
[15:54] <ryanleesipes> Thank you guys
[15:54] <autonomouse> Thanks Ryan!
[15:54] <mardi> Thanks!
[15:54] <Aaawesome> x
[15:58] <Elleo> balloons: heya, do I just create a hang out on air and send you the link or does it need setting up from your side?
[15:59] <balloons> hey Elleo! follow https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UDS/Sessions
[16:00] <balloons> I'm hosting another session, so I can't host it for you, but you know how to do that bit I'm sure anyway
[16:00] <Elleo> balloons: okay, thanks
[16:00] <balloons> if you do get stuck, ping. I'm here to make sure you get going a-ok
[16:01] <balloons> Elleo, once you have the hangout, you'll just need to add it to this page http://summit.ubuntu.com/uos-1511/hangout/22608/game-development-for-the-ubuntu-phone/
[16:02] <Elleo> balloons: heya, don't seem to have access to the "Edit Hangout Details" option on that page
[16:02] <balloons> Elleo, ohh, well then
[16:03] <balloons> Elleo, what's the hangout, I can update it :-)
[16:03] <Elleo> balloons: https://plus.google.com/events/cik5798it3j8gudocnqg2f6agck
[16:03] <Elleo> balloons: thanks
[16:03] <balloons> yw
[16:04] <balloons> Elleo, you should be good
[16:04] <Elleo> balloons: great, thanks
[16:05] <cucumber__> i'm blind.. i can't see :| but i hear you
[16:08] <cucumber__> QUESTION: how is the QML performance on Ubuntu Phones? and is it QML really meant for making games?
[16:12] <cucumber__> QUESTION: are you using timers as loops?
[16:13] <cucumber__> QUESTION: why are you using gedit instead of Qt?
[16:15] <cucumber__> QUESTION: how is the performance of html5 on Ubuntu Phones? and how is it compared to qml?
[16:17] <cucumber__> QUESTION: any demos of c/c++ OpenGL ES?
[16:21] <kenvandine> performance looks pretty smooth
[16:25] <cucumber__> tux racer :D
[16:25] <mzanetti-> QUESTION: any experience with liquidfun?
[16:26] <mzanetti-> a fork of Box2D with liquids added
[16:26] <mzanetti-> wanted to do something with that, but pre-start already
[16:27] <kenvandine> liquidfun would rock
[16:27] <mzanetti-> fwiw: https://google.github.io/liquidfun/
[16:27] <kenvandine> i've talked to the qml-box2d maintainer about rebasing the qml bindings on liquidfun
[16:27] <kenvandine> he's keen on the idea
[16:28] <cucumber__> thanks for the great session Mike o/
[16:28] <kenvandine> then we'd get that in bacon2d
[16:28] <mzanetti-> kenvandine, https://github.com/qml-box2d/qml-box2d/issues/58
[16:28] <Elleo> kenvandine: cool
[17:57] <Guest9062> All set cm-t?
[17:58] <YoBoY> hi
[17:59] <cm-t> Hi everyone
[18:00] <YoBoY> tu peux coller le lien vers la vidéo et le lien pour participer ici ?
[18:00] <gwaka> Bonsoir tout le monde
[18:00] <cm-t> http://summit.ubuntu.com/uos-1511/meeting/22566/le-french-uos-summary/
[18:02] <LeChristCosmique> Pourquoi j'entends deux voix ?
[18:03] <LeChristCosmique> ah ... oui le mettre en double ça aide pas ...
[18:05] <quesh__> yop
[18:10] <YoBoY> Si vous avez des questions, précédez les du mot « QUESTION : » histoire qu'on les voit bien svp
[18:10] <YoBoY> (et n'hésitez pas à en poser ;)
[18:19] <YoBoY> pour plus d'infos https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncil
 et même sur le bureau j'hésite de plus en plus à le lancer :D

[18:21] <YoBoY> (thunderbird)
[18:23] <cm-t> le plan suis celui-ci http://summit.ubuntu.com/uos-1511/all/
[18:23] <ArKwignAmann> QUESTION : Y a-t-il eu des précisions sur l'environnement téléphone (Environement graphiquec, fonctionnalité, ...)     ?
[18:36] <LeChristCosmique> QUESTION : Qu'adviendra-t'il de ubuntu-server ?
[18:36] <gwaka> QUESTION : C'est quand les prochain UbuntuCon et UbuntuParty en France ? Et ou ? Et comment participer ?
[18:38] <YoBoY> on dit Mate
[18:38] <YoBoY> :D
[18:38] <gwaka> =D
[18:39] <roadmr> ça se prononce comme en espagnol (le boisson): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MATE_%28software%29
[18:39] <YoBoY> moi je le prononce comme dans roommate
[18:40] <LeChristCosmique> YoBoY: dans ce cas là ça serait mate comme partenaire
[18:40] <YoBoY> yep
[18:41] <cm-t> ubuntu-rouen.org
[18:42] <cm-t> ubuntu-paris.org
[18:47] <gwaka> Merci
[18:50] <ArKwignAmann> QUESTION: Réalité vituelle et Ubuntu ?
[18:55] <ArKwignAmann> un casque en carton
[18:55] <ArKwignAmann> litéralement
[18:56] <ArKwignAmann> Merci pour vos intervention :)
[18:56] <YoBoY> merci à tous