[14:17] <jack_spratt> hi people, im here to ask about the cd stand on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DIYMarketing - id like to know who the author is and/or whether im allowed to make derivative copies of it and if i need to attribute etc
[14:18] <jack_spratt> can anyone help with this?
[14:20] <jack_spratt> I've already emailed a few people about this who were listed on that page but have had no response in 4 days
[14:31] <jack_spratt> so if things continue like this am I to assume that I am allowed to make derivative works without any attribution then? no license is attached to the .svgs or included with the files
[14:59] <jack_spratt> pretty quiet in here eh?
[14:59]  * emmajane looks around...
[14:59] <emmajane> shh.
[14:59] <emmajane> :)
[15:02] <monkee> mornin
[15:03] <jack_spratt> hi
[15:04] <jack_spratt> dont spose wither of you know the licensing terms or authors of the cd stand hosted here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DIYMarketing ??
[15:17] <monkee> hmm
[15:17] <monkee> I'm almost willing to bet it's going to be a creative commons type of license
[15:17] <monkee> but it's best  to track down the original contributor
[15:24] <jack_spratt> ok, ive been trying
[15:24] <jack_spratt> i emailed a few people days ago but no resonse, and im not sure who holds the license, if one person does
[15:24] <jack_spratt> can a cc license apply to an unamed group of people?
[15:24] <jack_spratt> i dont know
[15:25] <monkee> idk either
[15:26] <jack_spratt> if ive made valid attempts but failed to contact the license holders am i able to go ahead with derivatives do you think?
[15:26] <Monkee_Of_evil> IANAL so.....maybe?
[15:27] <Monkee_Of_evil> i honestly don't know
[15:27] <jack_spratt> ianal? please define
[15:27] <Monkee_Of_evil> ( I Am Not A Lawyer )
[15:27] <jack_spratt> oh i see
[15:27] <jack_spratt> oh well, thqanks anyway
[15:27] <jack_spratt> *thanks
[15:27] <Monkee_Of_evil> Keep us posted though
[15:29] <jack_spratt> ill try
[20:26] <kbrooks> may be OT. but whoa, terribly nice, a user made a ubuntu installation work for his/her mom http://ctolpin.googlepages.com/momfriendly.png
[20:28] <jpatrick> heh
[20:29] <Monkee_Of_evil> lol
[20:29] <kbrooks> isn't that good for ubuntu?
[20:29] <Monkee_Of_evil> I was half expecting to see an emulated XP interface
[20:29] <Monkee_Of_evil> lol
[20:32] <kbrooks> Monkee_Of_evil, partially emulated, but isn't firefox and openoffice mostly what people like this user's mom need?
[20:33] <Monkee_Of_evil> essentially
[20:35] <Monkee_Of_evil> i know if I were try to try to get my mom on Ubuntu I would *bare minimum* have to explain that she won't be using "MS Office"
[20:35] <Monkee_Of_evil> but that she can do the same thing
[20:35] <Monkee_Of_evil> i dont think i would have to go so far as adjusting the UI for her though
[20:35] <Monkee_Of_evil> but then, she's not a computer-retard either
[20:38] <Monkee_Of_evil> I think what MOST users need for ubuntu is just an understanding that there is life outside of redmond, and that while 90% of the time the concepts they already know how to apply in the windows world, can be applied just as easily on Ubuntu
[20:39] <Monkee_Of_evil> I switched my neighbors recently and the ONLY problem they had after I set the OS up for them was that they couldn't figure out why no music came up on myspace
[20:39] <Monkee_Of_evil> which turned out to be a broken flash player
[20:40] <Monkee_Of_evil> as far as using it, they love it
[20:40] <Monkee_Of_evil> and could care less about XP anymore
[20:40] <Monkee_Of_evil> even though I do have a virtual machine set up w/ an XP rom
[20:40] <Monkee_Of_evil> they dont even use it
[20:41] <emmajane> Monkee_Of_evil: I just renamed the OOo Applications menu item to "MS Office" for my dad.
[20:42] <Monkee_Of_evil> I generally dont install ubuntu on computers of people who cant understand that there are other operating systems out there.
[20:42] <Monkee_Of_evil> mainly because i dont know many people like that
[20:43] <emmajane> Most of the time the ones I deal with don't care about the OS, they care about the apps.
[20:43] <Monkee_Of_evil> but also because the few that I have tried to do that for get pissed off because their "internet doesnt work" when in reality they're trying to view IE-only websites.
[20:43] <emmajane> (1) can I check my email (2) can I write up a flyer for my group (3) can I play Scrabble online?
[20:44] <Monkee_Of_evil> or because the user interface was "stupid looking" and also the ever popular "well i cant play x y or z game once a month, so i wont deal with it at all"
[20:44] <emmajane> hehe.
[20:44] <emmajane> I don't deal with gamers, fortunately.
[20:44] <emmajane> i deal mostly with retired grannies. :)
[20:44] <Monkee_Of_evil> i envy you
[20:45] <Monkee_Of_evil> so many gamers nowadays
[20:45] <emmajane> Monkee_Of_evil: I am selective. :)
[20:45] <Monkee_Of_evil> heh
[20:45] <Monkee_Of_evil> I have the most success converting porno-freaks to ubuntu actually
[20:45]  * emmajane nods.
[20:45] <emmajane> I've got those too.
[20:46]  * emmajane is only prejudiced against the gamers...
[20:46] <Monkee_Of_evil> the "well FF isnt directly tied to your OS like IE is, and then of course there really arent that many viruses and such even out there for desktop linux boxes..."
[20:46] <Monkee_Of_evil> thats the selling point
[20:47] <Monkee_Of_evil> their eyes get as big as you can imagine and they're like "so i can browse the net for poooooooooorn without it trashing my computer?
[20:47] <emmajane> "Nelson Mandela did the promo video. He's cool. Want to see it?"
[20:47] <emmajane> that and, "It's more secure, it's harder to have other people track your actions which means you can do whatever you need to online"
[20:47] <Monkee_Of_evil> I generally neglect to let them know that disabling auto-installed activex controls in IE tends to prevent most spyware/trojans
[20:47] <Monkee_Of_evil> lol
[20:48]  * emmajane grins.
[20:48] <emmajane> well, d'uh.
[20:48] <emmajane> there's being nice and then there's being fair. ;)
[20:49] <Monkee_Of_evil> hmm
[20:50] <Monkee_Of_evil> I call it "FOSS Advocacy" and "Covert user rescue operations"
[20:50] <Monkee_Of_evil> FOSS Advocacy for people who know enough to make an educated decision
[20:50] <desertc> emmajane: In what way are you dealing with retired grannies?  Sounds interesting.
[20:50] <emmajane> desertc: a few different ways. I've got "clients" that I give at home computer help to.
[20:51] <Monkee_Of_evil> and Covert user rescue operations for those who have become one with ms-borg.
[20:51] <desertc> I posted a bunch of ubuntu flyers all over the compusa store near where I live.  The stores are all going out of business and the employees have stopped caring what is up on the walls.
[20:51] <emmajane> desertc: and then I also run a tech conference locally which was of major interest to a Life Long Learning org (membership restricted to 55+ years of age). They bulk-bought a bunch of tickets last year.
[20:52] <desertc> emmajane: now that conference is interesting.  where is that, and how do I get involved?
[20:52] <kbrooks> hehe, I sparked discussion.
[20:52] <emmajane> desertc: i think the trick to doing local activism is to target a group.
[20:52] <emmajane> desertc: www.hicktech.com
[20:52] <Monkee_Of_evil> kbrooks: firestarter! ;)
[20:52] <emmajane> desertc: for example: a local charity like the United Way.
[20:53] <kbrooks> Monkee_Of_evil, what do you say to advocate FOSS? and what do you do to get the "covert user rescue operations" in swing?
[20:53] <Monkee_Of_evil> uhm
[20:53] <desertc> emmajane: I've tried... but they all seem to have been co-op'd by other groups
[20:53] <Monkee_Of_evil> when I hear people bitching about windows...
[20:54] <emmajane> desertc: what have you tried?
[20:54] <Monkee_Of_evil> I walk up ( regardless of if I know them ) and start talking about FOSS
[20:54] <emmajane> desertc: tell me about your marketing strategy. ;)
[20:54] <Monkee_Of_evil> I also blog about it
[20:54] <Monkee_Of_evil> and uhh
[20:54] <Monkee_Of_evil> hand out flyers
[20:54] <Monkee_Of_evil> and all sorts of stuff
[20:54] <kbrooks> Monkee_Of_evil, what do you _say_?
[20:54] <Monkee_Of_evil> uhm
[20:54] <desertc> emmajane: would take a long time, I have been doing a ton of work
[20:54] <Monkee_Of_evil> It depends
[20:54] <Monkee_Of_evil> I generally point out a few things
[20:55] <Monkee_Of_evil> first I explain the whole Free as in Free Speech / Free as in Free Beer thing
[20:55] <Monkee_Of_evil> generally talk about Open Office first
[20:55] <Monkee_Of_evil> I tend to let the person I'm talking to lead the conversation as far as "what I say"
[20:55] <emmajane> desertc: I spend about 3-500 hours a year advocating for increased use of tech within my own community and on top of my regular job. Typically it can still be broken out into a few different "campaigns" though.
[20:56] <kbrooks> Monkee_Of_evil, Can I see your blog?
[20:56] <Monkee_Of_evil> http://monkeeofevil.blogspot.com
[20:56]  * kbrooks reads
[20:56] <Monkee_Of_evil> The other one is on myspace....
[20:57] <Monkee_Of_evil> I've just started blogging about Open Source
[20:57] <Monkee_Of_evil> so there's not TOO much up there
[20:57] <desertc> emmajane: When I contact these places, they are fine listening to my advocacy, but when it comes time to doing something, they balk.  Most are fine receiving a hand out and hearing about no-cost resources, but they don't want to commit themselves to doing anything - even allowing themselves to be available for a bit of time.
[20:57] <Monkee_Of_evil> I also maintain the Houston Team's Linux Gaming page:
[20:57] <Monkee_Of_evil> http://groups.google.com/group/ubuntu-houston-team/web/linux-gaming
[20:58] <emmajane> desertc: have you asked about getting a space to talk at an AGM?
[20:58] <desertc> emmajane: I think I could summarize all the responses into one: "We are fine already with our current technology solutions."
[20:58] <emmajane> desertc: many will have workshops related to their AGM. A very specific session on, OOo, for example, might be well received.
[20:58] <emmajane> desertc: Do they think you're trying to sell them something?
[20:59] <desertc> emmajane: It does seem to be like they are rejecting a sales person, even when I am making it clear I am doing the work pro-bono and the software is no-cost.
[20:59] <emmajane> desertc: *nod*
[21:00] <emmajane> desertc: What kinds of organizations have you been targetting?
[21:00] <emmajane> desertc: I've had good success with organizations that give out funding to impoverished individuals. The advantage that Ubuntu has is that it has *no value* and therefore doesn't affect the other funding these people are receiving.
[21:00] <desertc> Higer Education, Libraries, High Schools...
[21:01] <emmajane> desertc: high schools are a waste of time.
[21:01] <emmajane> desertc: target kids through after school programs.
[21:01] <desertc> What afterschool programs?
[21:01] <emmajane> desertc: high schools are locked into contracts and pay per computer regardless of what software is installed. they'd be *crazy* do do anything else.
[21:01] <emmajane> e.g. a computer club.
[21:01] <emmajane> or the year book committee.
[21:01] <emmajane> etc.
[21:02] <desertc> Yeah, I contacted all the advisors of the HS computer clubs
[21:02] <emmajane> Libraries are generally approachable. Do you know Jessamyn West?
[21:02] <desertc> Who is Jessamyn West?
[21:02] <emmajane> www.librarian.net
[21:02] <emmajane> just looking for a video for you
[21:02] <emmajane> she's a librarian and a very good FOSS advocate.
[21:03] <emmajane> http://www.librarian.net/stax/2042/do-you-ubuntu/
[21:03] <desertc> Yes, I have read that site briefly
[21:03] <desertc> Some librarians can do projects because they are already on the inside
[21:03] <emmajane> *nod*
[21:03] <desertc> It's very difficult to try and effect change within the library as a citizen
[21:03] <emmajane> yes.
[21:04] <emmajane> same with schools.
[21:04] <emmajane> you've picked two *very*hard* markets to break into.
[21:04] <Monkee_Of_evil> city council meetings are always open
[21:05] <emmajane> Do you have a personal connection to the education/higher ed/library sector?
[21:05] <desertc> Well, it shouldn't be like that in libraries, since they are supposed to be a public resource.  That experience left me somewhat bitter about trying to help out public resources.
[21:05] <Monkee_Of_evil> pushing for the use of FOSS in the education sector is probably THE most important way to solve bug #1
[21:05] <emmajane> Monkee_Of_evil: again, *hard*work* IT staff rarely receive enough funding to be able to support a system they don't know about.
[21:05] <emmajane> Monkee_Of_evil: I disagree.
[21:05] <Monkee_Of_evil> How so?
[21:06] <emmajane> Monkee_Of_evil: It's way too hard. There are better back doors than to target schools directly.
[21:06] <desertc> Monkee_Of_evil: It would be very difficult to prove that statement.
[21:06] <Monkee_Of_evil> Ok
[21:07] <emmajane> desertc: how big is your community? What's are the demographics of it?
[21:07] <desertc> emmajane: So what do you recommend?  You said AGM, what is that?
[21:07] <emmajane> What are the demographics, rather. (My hands get ahead of my head in the typing department)
[21:07] <kbrooks> desertc, annual general meeting
[21:07] <emmajane> desertc: Annual General Meeting. Every not-for-profit organization is required to have one (generally by law, but it will depend on where you live).
[21:08] <desertc> huh
[21:08] <desertc> so you think simply going straight to the non-profits and asking to present is a good way to get started
 Monkee_Of_evil: It's way too hard. There are better back doors than to target schools directly. # What are these?
[21:08] <emmajane> It has been successful for me. :)
[21:08] <desertc> I would not disagree with that conclusion.
[21:09] <emmajane> kbrooks: (1) go to the kids directly and parents directly
[21:09] <desertc> I have not given that much consideration
[21:09] <emmajane> desertc: the "no value" part is good for "end users"
[21:09] <emmajane> desertc: the "no licensing fee" is good for the org itself.
[21:09] <desertc> no value?  you mean no cost?
[21:09] <emmajane> yes, "no cost"
[21:10] <emmajane> but it's the "value" of the received donation.
[21:10] <desertc> yeah, okay, I can find out some of the non-profits in town and contact them for presentations
[21:10] <emmajane> for example: someone on disability or welfare gets a donated item worth $200. they potentially *lose* $200 from their monthly allowance from the government.
[21:11] <emmajane> desertc: Locally our LUG works with the United Way to build Ubuntu computers that are then shipped into the kids who can't afford computers. This is another great way to promote Ubuntu within the school system.
 for example: someone on disability or welfare gets a donated item worth $200. they potentially *lose* $200 from their monthly allowance from the government. # is that logically because they can  sell it to get $200?
[21:12] <emmajane> kbrooks: To be honest, I'm not entirely sure.
[21:12] <desertc> There is an organization here in town which does that already with donated computers.  I suppose I should focus on presentations.
[21:13] <emmajane> desertc: do they ship with Ubuntu?
[21:13] <desertc> yes
[21:13] <emmajane> excellent.
[21:13] <emmajane> check with them to see if you can work with them to do the advocacy part.
[21:13] <desertc> I suppose I was hoping that I would get engaged with deploying technical solutions.  Though, that is probably why people see me as selling them on services.
[21:14] <desertc> emmajane: Yeap, I did - they have a pretty well organized groups, since they offer no-cost computers to their helpers.
[21:14] <emmajane> kbrooks: also in terms of schools: not starting with the desktop platforms is a good intro. e.g.    That'd be a good way for me to increase my communication skills anyway.
[21:17] <emmajane> desertc: I do a LOT of web work and my standard line isn't that it's free as in freedom (they don't care, they're hiring me to tinker for them), but it *is* handy for them to know that other developers know about this system so they're not locked into a single solution provider/company.
[21:17] <desertc> Any other advice?  Seems like you have had a lot of success with reaching out to non-profits.
[21:17] <emmajane> desertc: You might also want to check and see if there's a local toastmasters organization to practice the presentations.
[21:18] <emmajane> desertc: people will start coming to you with questions if you can figure out your platform.
[21:18] <kbrooks> platform?
[21:18] <desertc> yeap - though TM is very difficult - at least for me
[21:18] <emmajane> kbrooks: your soap box. :)
[21:19] <emmajane> kbrooks: a message... etc.
[21:19] <emmajane> desertc: *nod* it's not for everyone, that's for sure.
[21:19] <desertc> trying to write and memorize a speech per meeting... hard to keep up with it
[21:20] <emmajane> *nod*
[21:21] <emmajane> desertc: your library might also be willing to offer workshops if you wanted to teach them.
[21:21] <kbrooks> desertc, why do you want to memorize? why can't you read?
[21:21] <emmajane> desertc: some libraries are quite involved with the community and have an "adult learning centre"
[21:21] <emmajane> kbrooks: that's not the point of toastmasters
[21:21] <kbrooks> desertc, errr... from the paper
[21:21] <emmajane> kbrooks: and listening to someone read a speech is *booooooooooooooring*
[21:21] <kbrooks> emmajane, ah
[21:22] <emmajane> kbrooks: toastmasters teaches you to deliver an entertaining theatre piece instead of just reading power point slides.
[21:22] <desertc> Finding places to give speeches is pretty easy, in contrast
[21:23] <desertc> People love entertainment, and most groups need to schedule presenters
[21:23]  * emmajane nods
[21:23] <emmajane> I find that down playing the "freedom" part of FOSS opens more doors for me.
[21:23] <desertc> But to what end...  If nothing happens after the presentation, then is it worth the effort?
[21:23] <emmajane> "I haven't used pirated software, and I haven't paid for software in 6 years... what to know how I did it?"
[21:24] <desertc> Hmm.  Good catch phrase.
[21:24] <kbrooks> emmajane, is that true?
[21:24] <emmajane> yup, kbrooks
[21:24] <emmajane> desertc: it's a slow process, but eventually it will be more sustainable if they think it was *their* idea to switch.
[21:25] <kbrooks> emmajane, how does that downplay the freedom of FOSS?
[21:25] <emmajane> kbrooks: Lots of people play UP the "tinkering" part. Freedom to change the source code. Real people don't care about source code.
[21:25] <kbrooks> am i allowed to ask lots of questions? :p
[21:25] <emmajane> kbrooks: sure... why not? :)
[21:26] <kbrooks> emmajane, sometimes i say "you cant hire someone to change windows"
[21:26] <desertc> kbrooks: It's like an article I read recently, "Most people would rather die than write programming code.  Telling them they are free to modify the source code is not going to make them want to try Linux."
[21:26]  * kbrooks googles that
[21:26]  * emmajane nods. +1 etc to desertc
[21:28] <kbrooks> that was paraphrased from http://digifreedom.net/node/103
[21:28] <kbrooks> desertc, i assume that was the article?
[21:29] <kbrooks> desertc, it got on /. as well at  http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/01/13/1433254
[21:33] <emmajane> kbrooks: more questions? :)
[21:34] <kbrooks> emmajane, ;-)
[21:34] <desertc> kbrooks: yes, thanks for providing the link
[21:34] <kbrooks> desertc, np
[21:36] <desertc> emmajane: seems like you are a good resource from all your experience.  I wonder if you aren't in a good location for presenting new ideas.  most communities are not so interested in learning and do not have the infrastructure and attendants for related activities.
[21:36] <emmajane> desertc: You get out of a community what you put into it.
[21:37] <emmajane> desertc: I work very hard with my community on issues surrounding technology. I work hard and they've come to trust me.
[21:37] <desertc> interesting perspective
[21:38] <emmajane> The first year I moved into the area I couldn't even get people to email me back about issues. But now people I don't even know are paying to come to the tech conference I've set up. People trust that I'm going to provide good, useful information.
[21:38] <emmajane> the trust factor is huge.
[21:39] <desertc> your own tech conference.  interesting.  do you have a link to the event?
[21:39] <emmajane> www.hicktech.com
[21:39] <emmajane> No one else was doing it, so I started one.
[21:39] <emmajane> I saw a *huge* need for people to come together and talk about technology and how scary it is and how it takes over our business lives.
[21:40] <emmajane> I was hoping that my peer techies would come to it. They didn't the first year, so I made it into an end user conference. Now the techies are coming because they see the potential to earn new business from the other attendees.
[21:42] <emmajane> I pick speakers who think about technology and can talk about it, but it's definitely not a hands on training session. I do, however, get a little bit of work from people who like the conference and want to hire me to do stuff for their company. They come to think of me as being an expert in all the topics presented (which is *hilariously*not*the*case*).
[21:42] <desertc> Putting together conferences should be high up on any Ubuntu LoCo's group's list of activities, imho.  Great way to get the message out and build ties with the community.  It requires a lot of work, though, and that, sadly, is in short supply.
[21:43] <emmajane> desertc: yes, it takes a HUGE amount of work.
[21:43] <emmajane> surprisingly I didn't get huge buy-in from my LUG the first year.
[21:43] <emmajane> I got a bit of "end users? *yawn*"
[21:44] <emmajane> (Let it be known that I love them dearly and that they are brilliant at things I know nothing about.)
[21:46] <desertc> I have noticed a lot of "wouldn't it be great if someone - anyone - would do these things for Linux in our community", and the conversations can go on endlessly.  But, when the discussion turns to actually doing even the most modest amount of work, everyone suddenly remembers they have to depart immediately - oh, but they want to know how it all turns out.
[21:46] <emmajane> desertc: Yup, I get that too.
[21:47] <emmajane> it's frustrating.
[21:47] <desertc> So, I don't know how you broke through that barrier.
[21:47] <emmajane> and then I *do*it*
[21:47]  * emmajane still does it "all" herself.
[21:49] <desertc> Hmm - that's sad.  So, I have been finding ways to advocate and market on my own.  Posters, websites, working within the Ubuntu teams.  I am sure you found the same things useful.  I will have to give some serious thought to performing presentations to the list.
[21:50] <emmajane> it's not sad!
[21:51] <emmajane> I get to do it exactly how I want it done.
[21:51] <emmajane> It's wonderful!!
[21:51] <desertc> :-)  Great outlook on life.
[21:52] <emmajane> thanks.
[21:53] <emmajane> It's true though. I wanted a tech conference and it was my dream. I'm the only one that can make it happen.
[21:53] <emmajane> You have to be passionate about the idea or no one will follow you.
[21:54] <emmajane> hosting a tech conference is definitely *not* for everyone.
[21:54]  * emmajane is a freakish overachiever. :)
[21:56] <emmajane> Locally I've found that businesses respond well to persistent efforts.
[21:56] <emmajane> "This is what i'm going to do. I would love for you to be a part of it, but I'm going to do it regardless of whether or not you participate because I think it's that important and becausee I love it so much."
[21:57] <emmajane> that's part of what takes the sales edge away as well.
[21:57] <emmajane> "I don't need you to buy this for it to be important to me." or something like that.
[22:12] <desertc> emmajane: you must have been sending karma through the airwaves because a local university just called me to ask for me to present in march
[22:12] <emmajane> that's wonderful!!! :)
[22:15] <desertc> Regarding what you said about getting people involved, I spent six months trying to get people to do some project together, then I just threw up my hands and started doing it myself.  Only after telling people how it was going did people want to start getting involved.  But, now I know some people who I can call and work on other things, in the future.  I think it's like what you said before -- which I had not considered -- there's a level
[22:15] <desertc> of trust that needs to be built between people.
[22:15]  * emmajane nods.
[22:17] <Feravolo> Hello
[22:17]  * emmajane waves to Feravolo
[22:19] <Feravolo> Is anyone here
[22:19] <desertc> No, sorry, no one.
[22:19] <Feravolo> okay
[22:19] <emmajane> I'm just trying to get some work done before the end of the day. :)
[22:20] <Feravolo> oh I just signed onto the channel from my office, I will have to read today's dialog when i get home
[22:21] <desertc> emmajane: Are you reaching out to the Ubuntu LoCo Team of California?
[22:22] <emmajane> desertc: .ca == canada.
[22:24] <desertc> I saw a reference to Bay Area on your conference website.  Maybe put the address of the conference in your About... page?  ;)
[22:25] <desertc> But now I see the CBC references, so I should have known.
[22:25] <desertc> ANyway, reached out to your local LoCo team?
[22:26] <emmajane> desertc: Heather is coming to speak at the conference from San Francisco, yes and there are loads of local references. it's not meant to draw in from a larger community than my own physical community.


[01:15] <cwillu> the !wubi support link is dead
[01:15] <cwillu> http://www.ubuntu.com/desktop/get-ubuntu/windows-installer/support.php
[01:16] <cwillu> er, http://wubi-installer.org/support.php redirects to http://www.ubuntu.com/desktop/get-ubuntu/windows-installer, which is a 404
[01:25] <h00k> oh lord. -offtopic is going to be a handful tonight
[01:26] <elky> bring out the kitteh pictures
[01:26] <h00k> yeah :)
[01:27] <h00k> I have to be in my LoCo channel in 1/2 hour, so I won't be able to watch it as closely
[08:00] <othello> fuck you
[08:00] <othello> KAGAMI...
[08:00] <othello> KAGAMI...
[08:00] <othello> HOW DARE YOU KILL US
[08:00] <tonyyarusso> that was odd
[08:01] <ikonia> this is the same guy that was going to hack us
[08:01] <ikonia> I'll change the forward to a ban if it happens again
[14:44] <IdleOne> When do we find out who the new ops are going to be in the various channels?
[14:45] <Pici> IdleOne: Next week.
[14:45] <IdleOne> thank you
[14:45] <IdleOne> Good morning btw :)
[14:45] <Pici> IdleOne: The deadline for current ops to voice their opinions on all the candidates is Sunday night.
[14:45] <IdleOne> sounds good
[17:04] <ikonia> people talk such utter rubbish "fedora is better than ubuntu for raid"
[17:05] <Pici> Is that person even addressing anyone?
[17:06] <ikonia> yes
[17:15] <ikonia> nice one Pici
[17:16] <Pici> Kicking a webchat user will automagically ban their real host.
[17:16] <ikonia> I've still not got into that habbit
[17:16] <ikonia> FYI: I'm also still not happy with the floodbots open proxy banning, it's doing a fair amount of false positives
[17:16] <Pici> I'm still working on the floodbot guide for ops.
[17:16] <Pici> ikonia: I'm not either.
[17:17] <ikonia> I did know what you said, it's just my bad habbit - not your fault
[17:17] <ikonia> no guide would have saved me
[17:17] <Pici> I know.
[17:18] <Pici> I probably learn perl again for just long enough to work on a redirect url script.
[17:20] <ikonia> ha
[17:37] <gnomefreak> n/win 3
[17:58] <popey> n/lose 1
[17:59] <gnomefreak> :)
[21:14] <guntbert> hi, I want to voice a concern about (sometimes) disappointing user experience in #ubuntu-server
[21:19] <tonyyarusso> guntbert: If it's relatively short, voice away.  If you have a fairly detailed explanation, it could be more useful to send it to the ubuntu-irc mailing list.
[21:20] <guntbert> tonyyarusso: just shortly to collect my thoughts: every now and then there is a user asking for help and two or three experts chat away about some kernel feature...-- they often totally ignore the user
[21:21] <guntbert> I know the topic of #ubuntu-server is special  "discussion and support" so that might lead to those situations
[21:22] <tonyyarusso> guntbert: So in short, you'd like to see it fulfill the support aspect better, yes?
[21:23] <guntbert> tonyyarusso: yes that seems to cover it ... well I think the discussion must happen somewhere and we don't want to spread forces too thin....
[21:24] <Tm_Tr> I see it reasonable to even just ask the one in need of help to wait a moment to get help or such, total ignoring is rude
[21:24] <Tm_Tr> assuming it's relatively quiet channel
[21:25] <tonyyarusso> it usually is pretty quiet, yeah
[21:25] <guntbert> Tm_Tr: it is most of the time
[21:26] <guntbert> but I have no idea how to accomplish this - my first thought was to switch places for "discussion" and "support" in the topic but that seems .... moot?
[21:27] <tonyyarusso> guntbert: Usually this sort of thing is done by "lead by example".  In other words, offer support frequently yourself and try to get it to catch on that way.
[21:29] <guntbert> tonyyarusso: would be great if I was able to do so, but the field in #ubuntu-server is somewhat wider than my field of experience ... but you have a very good point there, sometimes I do the same thing in #ubuntu too
[21:31] <Tm_Tr> guntbert: just giving some attempt to help usually draw others more capable into it
[21:33] <guntbert> Tm_Tr: thats true - thank you both for listening and your input - I'm gonna let it lie (with some positive attempts from me) for a while, maybe I send it to the mailing list later
[21:33] <topyli> i would do this on the mailing list
[21:34] <topyli> well, i would do more on the mailing list anyway :)
[21:34] <guntbert> topyli: taken into account :-)
[21:34] <topyli> this channel is real time and people are not. darn foreigners, living in weird timezones!
[21:34] <topyli> mail is better if you want to voice a concern
[21:35] <guntbert> good point! (btw its 22:30 here :-)
[21:36] <topyli> well i'm only one hour further, but there are people even more unfortunate :)
[21:37] <guntbert> ah, the man from the north is speaking :-)
[21:38] <guntbert> and now I'm off - enough idle chatter in the ops channel - thx to you all
[21:38] <topyli> it happens!
[21:42] <topyli> i think Tm_Tr is right though, ignoring newbies is just about the worst approach
[21:43] <topyli> (and guntbert)
[21:44] <Tm_Tr> it is, especially when it's relatively quiet support channel
[21:45] <Tm_Tr> I tend to slap people when they keep chitchat when someone asks support question in our loco channels
[21:46] <topyli> yeah well our channels are slow enough that we sometimes forget which is support and which is -ot
[21:46] <Tm_Tr> indeed
[21:46] <topyli> slapping is needed :)
[21:46]  * Tm_Tr slaps topyli and then huggles him tightly
[21:47]  * topyli tickles
[21:47]  * Tm_Tr hides
[22:50] <ikonia> I'll try to make a point of being more active in #ubuntu-server I understand the concerns earlier
[22:51] <ikonia> why are the #ubuntu-uds channels still open ?
[23:03] <ikonia> IRCAnswersBot<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[23:03] <ikonia> tons of ubuntu channels ?
[23:08] <IdleOne> ikonia: Brother has pretty  decent printer/scanner support, not all of the models have linux drivers but the brother website does have a good bit of information on models and instructions to install the drivers.
[23:09] <ikonia> IdleOne: tell him
[23:09] <ikonia> I find they suck
[23:09] <IdleOne> well, yeah they do.
[23:09] <IdleOne> but still better then Canon for example
[23:09] <ikonia> agreed....barely
[23:44] <ikonia> that's getting annoying
[23:53] <ikonia> is unitedpotsmokers acceptable as a nick in #ubuntu
[23:54] <topyli> ikonia: no
[23:54] <ikonia> I have asked him to change it in pm
[23:54] <ikonia> giving chance to respond
[23:54] <elky> he's been asked before
[23:54] <elky> and stormed off iirc
[23:55] <topyli> if we have the policy we do, it extends to nicks and quit messages and such


[22:05] <stokachu> rick_h_, is there a way to query the api for something liek https://jujucharms.com/big-data
[22:05] <stokachu> i want to pull those available bundles
[22:12] <rick_h_> stokachu: no, those are hand curated pages and not api driven.
[22:12] <stokachu> rick_h_, ah ok
[22:12] <rick_h_> stokachu: we call them 'topic pages' kind of like CMS content in the storefront site
[22:13] <stokachu> gotcha
[22:18] <stokachu> so when i do a `charm info hdp-hadoop` i dont see `hdp-core-batch-processing` as being listed in the bundles-containing field
[22:19] <stokachu> http://paste.ubuntu.com/14404910/
[22:19] <stokachu> is that something that should show up there?
[22:20] <rick_h_> stokachu: I think that the 'bundles-containing' is version tied, which is a bug that should be fixed but it's not been used much so it's not been prioritized
[22:20] <stokachu> want me to file a bug for it?
[22:20] <rick_h_> stokachu: please do if you don't see it there already
[22:21] <rick_h_> stokachu: it really needs to be more version agnostic to be more usuable I think
[22:21] <stokachu> rick_h_, for the charmstore repo for this?
[22:23] <rick_h_> stokachu: yes, github/juju/charmstore since it's the API there
[22:23] <stokachu> ok cool will do thanks
[22:26] <stokachu> rick_h_, ok done, https://github.com/juju/charmstore/issues/502
[22:27] <rick_h_> stokachu: ty


[19:36] <tedge> Who's writing the US 18.10 release notes & blog post?
[19:36] <tedge> I'd be happy to write the blurbs for PikoPixel, and I can also help with the blurbs on other topics.


[02:08] <elmalty> hi
[02:09] <elmalty> any one can help me
[02:36] <TheNightPhoenix> hi
[13:42] <mohamed_yosry> اشطة
[13:42] <mohamed_yosry> بريخت حيرجع full time للبلندر من الشهر الجاى
[13:42] <mohamed_yosry> - Brecht van Lommel
[13:42] <mohamed_yosry> Brecht will be back officially per May 1st! Apart from all regular
[13:42] <mohamed_yosry> support work he'll work on leading a project for a brand new shader/
[13:42] <mohamed_yosry> render system in Blender. Plus of course related targets for a Mango
[13:42] <mohamed_yosry> project.


[01:28] <StevenK> wgrant: https://code.launchpad.net/~stevenk/launchpad/3102-by-default/+merge/172937
[01:29] <wgrant> StevenK: k
[04:03] <StevenK> wgrant: It's been weaned off -groups, was that your only concern?
[04:22] <wgrant> StevenK: Did you consider using Job.makeDerived instead of the stuff on line 150 of the diff?
[04:23] <wgrant> Also, I'd spell out SPRs in the GENERATE_PACKAGE_DIFF description, given that the initialism is ambiguous nowadays
[04:24] <StevenK> wgrant: I considered it, but given we're getting back an actual IJob, I didn't know what makeDerived would actually return, or just error -- and UniversalJobSource is called from another process so is difficult to debug and I know cls(job) works.
[04:24] <wgrant> I'm also not sure I understand exactly how the delegation from PackageDiffJobDerived works.
[04:24] <wgrant> StevenK: I don't think makeDerived exists on the class you want it to today, but I suggest that you make it exist.
[04:25] <wgrant> Make Job-only jobs as similar to non-Job-only jobs as possible
[04:25] <wgrant> We're just merging the additional class into Job, effectively
[04:25] <wgrant> So Job.makeDerived makes sense for Job-only jobs.
[04:26] <StevenK> Then I need a mapping of type to class and circular imports?
[04:28] <wgrant> A good point
[04:29] <wgrant> A comment to that effect would be very helpful
[04:32] <StevenK> wgrant: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/5842427/
[04:36] <wgrant> StevenK: That doesn't really explain anything. makeDerived not existing isn't a problem, because you could just add makeDerived. The problem is that Job.makeDerived would be a mess of circular imports, so it's probably cleaner to just do this.
[04:38] <StevenK> wgrant: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/5842436/
[04:38] <wgrant> That's more explanatory :)
[04:39] <wgrant> StevenK: I guess these can be run with run_jobs.py now?
[04:39] <wgrant> Rather than process-job-source-groups.py
[04:39] <wgrant> Hm
[04:39] <wgrant> process-job-source.py exists as well
[04:39] <wgrant> What is the different between that and run_jobs.py...
[04:41] <StevenK> run_jobs takes a job name, process-job-source.py takes a source
[04:41] <wgrant> Certainly
[04:41] <wgrant> But what is the difference?
[04:42] <wgrant> AFAICT run_jobs shouldn't exist any more
[04:42] <wgrant> There are still three config sections for it
[04:42] <StevenK> process-job-source.py uses the same internals as run_jobs, and the latter is still being used on ackee and loganberry
[04:42] <wgrant> But I suspect they can be migrated to process-job-source.py-style entries in about 20 lines of diff
[04:43] <wgrant> How odd
[04:43] <StevenK> It's backing of JobCronScript can't die, however
[04:43] <StevenK> % bzr grep run_jobs | cut -d/ -f8
[04:43] <StevenK> run_jobs.py -vv initializedistroseries >>
[04:43] <StevenK> run_jobs.py pofile_stats >>
[04:43] <StevenK> run_jobs.py  packaging_translations -q --log-file=INFO:
[04:43] <wgrant> Why not?
[04:44] <StevenK> JobCronScript is used by process-job-source.py, scan_branches and a bunch of others.
[04:44] <wgrant> scan_branches etc. are irrelevant
[04:44] <wgrant> All that matters is process-job-source.py
[04:44] <wgrant> And it would become the One True Runner
[04:44] <wgrant> So JobCronScript would become a part of it
[04:45] <wgrant> distroseriesdifference_job, merge-proposal-jobs, process-apport-blobs etc die
[04:45] <StevenK> wgrant: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/5842443/
[04:45] <StevenK> Ah, you're there.
[04:46] <StevenK> wgrant: Happy to start digging the graves for those scripts in a seperate branch.
[04:46] <wgrant> I'm doing that :)
[04:46] <StevenK> Ah
[04:46] <wgrant> So we'll be down to just process-job-source.py and celery as job runners.
[04:46] <StevenK> And it will be glorious
[04:47] <wgrant> (process-job-source-groups just launches multiple process-job-sources)
[04:49] <StevenK> wgrant: You do seem to have been distracted quite heavily from reviewing my branch, though. :-)
[04:49] <wgrant> StevenK: I was hoping you'd checked that process-job-source actually manages to run the job
[04:50] <StevenK> wgrant: As in IPackageDiffJob ?
[04:50] <wgrant> Yes
[04:50] <wgrant> Ah
[04:50] <wgrant> There is a test, I see
[04:50] <StevenK> Yes
[04:50] <StevenK> I don't need to check, I wrote a test to check for me.
[04:51] <wgrant> StevenK: Can you explain how the delegation for PackageDiffJobDerived works?
[04:51] <wgrant> self.context = self is slightly smelly
[04:52] <StevenK> self.context = self is for the benefit of celery who assumes that context is a job class
[04:52] <wgrant> Isn't that for the delegates()?
[04:52] <StevenK> No, that's self.job
[04:53] <StevenK> job is for delegates, context is for celery
[04:53] <wgrant> How does delegate(IPackageDiffJob) know to look at self.job rather than self.context?
[04:53] <wgrant> Also, what's that __storm_table__ doing there?
[04:54] <StevenK> __storm_table__ is there because celery calls IStore(db_class)
[04:54] <wgrant> Right, but db_class should be the Job in this case
[04:54] <StevenK> With no __storm_table__, we can't adapt
[04:54] <wgrant> Sure
[04:54] <StevenK> Because the IStore adapter looks up a table
[04:54] <wgrant> Because it's not a DB class.
[04:54] <wgrant> So celery shouldn't be trying to use it as one
[04:55] <wgrant> The DB class is Job
[04:55] <StevenK> Right, but it got handed a PackageDiffJob
[04:55] <StevenK> It assumes all jobs it gets are DB backed
[04:55] <wgrant> That's not a valid assumption
[04:55] <wgrant> It could perhaps call a getDBObject method
[04:55] <wgrant> We should fix the celery integration rather than faking a DB class.
[04:56] <wgrant> Since the celery integration is probably actually easier to change
[04:57] <StevenK> getDBObject?
[04:57] <wgrant> A method on a job that returns the DB object.
[04:57] <wgrant> It's an example of a way to fix this that isn't evil.
[04:58] <StevenK> I didn't think __storm_table__ wasn't so evil ... it's correct in one sense
[04:58] <wgrant> It's not
[04:59] <StevenK> It is, we have a row in the Job table about it.,
[04:59] <wgrant> That's a very low threshold for correctness :)
[05:01] <wgrant> The job system has enough hacks that we haven't removed yet; we should do the small amount of work needed to integrate this nicely, rather than piling on more. Particularly when the additional hacks have the side-effect of turning a normal object into a really strange faux-Storm object with consequences that I haven't fully determined yet.
[05:03] <StevenK> wgrant: Right, so we want it to be a classmethod that returns IStore(cls) for the base class, and PackageDiffJob can return IStore(Job) ?
[05:04] <StevenK> getStore() or something
[05:04] <wgrant> StevenK: Um, possibly, I forget exactly how this is structured at the moment.
[05:04] <wgrant> StevenK: How does it work for non-Job-only jobs?
[05:05] <wgrant> eg. BranchJobDerived isn't a Storm object
[05:05] <wgrant> It still just delegates to BranchJob
[05:05] <StevenK> db_class in this case is BranchJob
[05:05] <StevenK> Or so
[05:05] <wgrant> Sure
[05:05] <wgrant> But how does it get there?
[05:05] <wgrant> Oh
[05:06] <wgrant> Because celery is given a key of BranchJob?
[05:06] <wgrant> Not the concrete enumerated class?
[05:06] <StevenK> Hm
[05:06] <StevenK> The job classes themselves are db classes
[05:06] <StevenK> I thought they had a generic base class
[05:07] <StevenK> So PackageDiffJob is the odd one out
[05:07] <wgrant> Not really, no
[05:07] <wgrant> BranchScanJob is a BranchJobDerived
[05:07] <wgrant> So BranchScanJob isn't a DB class; it just delegates to BranchJob, which is one.
[05:07] <wgrant> PackageDiffJob is the same; it just delegates to a Job, which is one.
[05:07] <StevenK> SharingJob for instance, is StormBase
[05:08] <wgrant> SharingJob isn't equivalent to PackageDiffJob
[05:08] <wgrant> SharingJob is the DB class that underlies the concrete sharing jobs
[05:08] <StevenK> Right
[05:08] <wgrant> lib/lp/registry/model/sharingjob.py:class RemoveArtifactSubscriptionsJob(SharingJobDerived):
[05:08] <StevenK> It backs onto SharingJobDerived, which is backed onto BaseRunnableJob
[05:09] <wgrant> Exactlyu
[05:09] <wgrant> The actual job classes are never Storm objects
[05:09] <wgrant> Which is why it's completely wrong that PackageDiffJob is
[05:09] <wgrant> Which is the line in celery that expects the job to be storm?
[05:09] <wgrant> I suspect it's just before it uses UniversalJobSource
[05:09] <StevenK> It's in UniversalJobSource
[05:09] <wgrant> The difference is the lack of makeDerived.
[05:10] <wgrant> For traditional jobs, the key is ('BranchJob', id)
[05:10] <wgrant> IStore(BranchJob) works
[05:10] <StevenK> store = IStore(db_class) in UniversalJobSource.get
[05:10] <wgrant> And the UniversalJobSource looks up the BranchJob by id
[05:10] <wgrant> Oh!
[05:10] <wgrant> That makes more sense :)
[05:10] <wgrant> So it's not in the celery stuff
[05:10] <StevenK> It's called by the celery stuff
[05:11] <wgrant> Yeah
[05:11] <wgrant> But I was wondering how celery could see this
[05:11] <wgrant> Given that the bits that could break were in UJS
[05:11] <wgrant> So
[05:11] <wgrant> Easy fix
[05:11] <wgrant> If db_class isn't actually a DB class, assume Job
[05:11] <wgrant> So UJS can take two different things
[05:12] <wgrant>  1) the traditional intermediate job DB class, like BranchJob or SharingJob, plus a Job.id
[05:12] <wgrant>  2) a Job-only job class, like PackageDiffJob, plus a Job.id
[05:12] <StevenK> wgrant: But __storm_table__ == 'Job
[05:12] <wgrant> In 1) it uses BranchJob.makeDerived to get the concrete one
[05:12] <StevenK> Is how we do return db_class(db_job)
[05:12] <wgrant> StevenK: Only because you put it there to placate the code that we're replacing
[05:13] <wgrant> What do you mean?
[05:13] <wgrant> (also, db_class isn't a DB class in case 2, so it should probably be renamed)
[05:13] <StevenK> wgrant: IOW, I'm using __storm__table__ == 'Job' to work out if it's a fake job
[05:13] <wgrant> StevenK: Yes
[05:13] <wgrant> And instead you're going to work out if it's a Job-only (aka. fake) job by the *lack* of __storm_table__
[05:14] <StevenK> Righ
[05:14] <StevenK> *Right
[05:32] <StevenK> wgrant: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/5842508/
[05:35] <wgrant> StevenK: Not fake, but represented in the database by only a Job row.
[05:35] <wgrant> The two different inputs that the method takes are quite confusing to distinguish, so I'd suggest a few lines of comment there describing the two cases
[05:35] <StevenK> wgrant: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/5842515/
[05:38] <wgrant> A good start
[05:41] <StevenK> wgrant: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/5842531/
[05:43] <wgrant> StevenK: Heh, that doesn't quite describe the extraordinary oddness
[05:43] <wgrant> In the Job-only case, the class name we are given is the concrete job
[05:43] <wgrant> In the non-Job-only case, the class name we are given is the intermediate abstract job class
[05:44] <StevenK>         # - Jobs that have no backing, and are only represented by a row in
[05:44] <StevenK>         #   the Job table, but the class name we are given is the abstract
[05:44] <StevenK>         #   job class.
[05:45] <wgrant> Sounds good
[05:46] <StevenK> wgrant: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/5842539/ is the diff
[05:47] <wgrant> StevenK: One more thing I've just thought of... it possibly makes sense in PDJ.__init__ to assert that job.job_type matches what we expect
[05:47] <wgrant> Just in case anything funny happens and there's eg. an ID mixup due to a celery issue
[05:51] <StevenK> wgrant: Hm, we don't ignore FAILED diffs -- I don't think we can deal with that iterReady, so I guess we should have run() just return None if status != PENDING
[05:52] <wgrant> StevenK: Didn't we do something to handle that a couple of weeks ago?
[05:52] <wgrant> Not running jobs unless they are runnable
[05:53] <wgrant> Or do we in this case have a WAITING job for a FAILED diff?
[05:53] <StevenK> wgrant: The job *itself* will be runnable, some diffs will be created as FAILED -- eg: udev
[05:53] <wgrant> That sounds like a bug
[05:53] <wgrant> There should be no job in that case.
[05:56] <StevenK> wgrant: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/5842550/
[05:57] <wgrant> StevenK: Right
[05:58] <StevenK> I'll be happy when that diff bug is fixed and we can rip that rubbish out
[05:58] <StevenK> wgrant: Any other concerns?
[05:59] <wgrant> I don't think so
[09:44] <StevenK> wgrant: Did you forget to remove all of the obsoleted cronscripts?
[10:06] <wgrant> StevenK: In a second branch
[10:06] <wgrant> StevenK: So we don't break everything ever when this rev is deployed
[10:07] <StevenK> Not everything ever, just most jobs. :-)
[15:48] <xnox> Why is https://launchpad.net/~costamagnagianfranco/+archive/firefox "firefox-backports" ?! building boinc on virt-arm ?!


[00:44] <cjwatson> Saviq: I think it will be more an issue of availability of sufficient powerpc build capacity, since we don't quite have scalingstack on powerpc yet (though it's planned).  It's likely a good idea to restructure around PPAs since it makes better use of the company's build capacity for exotic architectures in general, but I don't know to what extent it would be an immediate answer for you.
[00:45] <cjwatson> Saviq: Creating devirt PPAs requires the LP user that's doing the creation to be specially privileged, so we would want to be careful about extending that to, say, lots of Jenkaas users.  (Having scalingstack on the architectures in question will make devirting unnecessary.)
[01:58] <robru> oh good
[01:59] <robru> cjwatson: any ideas here ^ ? should I retry those?
[02:35] <robru> good god
[02:35] <robru> 8-hour oxide build.
[06:51] <robru> Failed to upload? wat
[09:17] <cjwatson> robru: sounds like https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1535949.  I think everything has been retried, but I'll go through and double-check in a bit
[09:18] <Laney> I guess not things in silos?
[09:18] <robru> cjwatson: looks like just the one: https://requests.ci-train.ubuntu.com/#/tickets?status=Failed%20to%20upload
[09:19] <cjwatson> Laney: right, possibly not, depends how Martin did the retries
[09:19] <robru> cjwatson: but a few ones mysteriously cancelled: https://requests.ci-train.ubuntu.com/#/tickets?status=Cancelled
[09:19] <cjwatson> robru: but also cancelled builds
[09:19] <cjwatson> robru: the bug caused builds to loop indefinitely so they had to be cancelled
[09:19] <cjwatson> that's a manual action by somebody, but in this case it makes sense as a consequence of that
[09:19] <robru> cjwatson: yeah I saw the logs looping, was definitely stuck
[09:20] <Laney> train question
[09:20] <Laney> I accidentally built a silo for x + v instead of just x
[09:20] <Laney> can I just change that field and ignore the borked builds?
[09:20] <robru> Laney: you can change that field and then manually delete the vivid builds from the silo
[09:21] <Laney> K, thanks robru
[09:21] <robru> Laney: you're welcome
[09:21] <robru> alright, early meeting tomorrow, goodnight!
[10:03] <sil2100> jibel: rootfs for the rc re-spin has built, importing it now
[10:03] <sil2100> Confirmed the manifest is sane
[10:03] <jibel> sil2100, good thanks
[10:04] <sil2100> Although... I noticed that it pulled in a newer liblibertine1, I had no idea we shipped this library in our touch images
[10:04] <sil2100> ubuntu-pd probably has all the libertine packages while touch only this one, but still - anyway, this is a no-problem for touch POV
[10:08] <jibel> sil2100, content-hub depends on it
[10:10] <sil2100> Oh, and if you don't mind, the new image won't be tagged - I would have to tag all the images manually after importing, wasting time, while we'll have a re-spin with language-packs anyway
[10:10] <jibel> it's fine
[10:57] <cjwatson> robru: all cleaned up now
[11:08] <rvr> jhodapp: ping
[11:08] <jhodapp> rvr, pong
[11:08] <rvr> jhodapp: Hi
[11:08] <jhodapp> rvr, hey there
[11:08] <rvr> jhodapp: I'm failing silo 5
[11:08] <rvr> jhodapp: Test 18: FAIL (music stops).
[11:09] <rvr> It does not happen without silo packages
[11:10] <jhodapp> rvr, that's odd, but it has nothing to do with playback...the changes only affect being able to start to play a media file
[11:10] <jhodapp> rvr, but will double check
[11:11] <jhodapp> rvr, oh, that's a new test...you don't have the fix for test #18 yet
[11:11] <jhodapp> that's the issue
[11:11] <jhodapp> rvr, the fix comes with the new music-app
[11:12] <rvr> jhodapp: Ah
[11:13] <jhodapp> rvr, that was this bug that I proved was music-app's fault last Friday: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-rtm/+source/media-hub/+bug/1534172
[11:13] <sil2100> jibel: all imported it seems!
[11:15] <rvr> jhodapp: I see. Ok, then I will do some more tests before approving the silo.
[11:17] <sil2100> morphis: hey!
[11:18] <sil2100> morphis: I've been looking at LP: #1534193 a bit last week and I noticed xenial has horribly outdated android packages
[11:19] <jhodapp> rvr, thanks!
[11:20] <sil2100> morphis: maybe not horribly... I'm not really 100% familiar with how the android versioning works, but it's clear that the xenial version is based off some much earlier time (20150818)
[11:22] <sil2100> morphis: anyway, the truth is that the last real android upload to xenial was last year - are there any reasons the touch changes from overlay can't be pushed to xenial?
[11:38] <sil2100> cyphermox: hey!
[11:39] <sil2100> cyphermox: I was looking at the overlay -> xenial delta (LP: #1534193) and noticed that mtp is outdated in xenial - would it be possible to  get that synced up there?
[12:02] <Mirv> sil2100: when will OTA-10 gates open?
[12:04] <sil2100> Mirv: they're open since a while!
[12:05] <sil2100> Mirv: they're basically open since Monday lateish
[12:05] <sil2100> rc-proposed landings are normal
[12:05] <Mirv> sil2100: yeah I thought that might be the answer but since I saw other assumptions I decided to ask neutrally! :) thanks!
[12:16] <sil2100> Mirv: yw! We have a snapshot for OTA-9 made so all is good
[12:43] <rvr> jhodapp: Plug in a pair of headphones, then unplug - video playback should pause -> Video does not pause
[13:18] <jhodapp> rvr, are you sure it's this silo's fault? should have nothing to do with that
[13:59] <morphis> sil2100: oh yeah, we need to bring those in line
[14:18] <rvr> jhodapp: Weird, I reflashed and  reinstalled the silo and cannot reproduce the problem, anymore.
[14:18] <jhodapp> rvr, that's what I would expect, that sounded fishy
[14:19] <rvr> jhodapp: Approving the silo
[14:20] <jhodapp> rvr, thank you sir
[14:49] <bschaefer> trainguards, i need to be added the group to request a silo on bileto to do a mir release
[14:49] <sil2100> bschaefer: hey! Let me do that
[14:49] <bschaefer> thanks!
[14:51] <sil2100> bschaefer: done! You should be good, re-log in bileto and be sure to tick the ci-train-users team
[14:51] <bschaefer> sil2100, cool let me check
[14:51] <bschaefer> works, yay, thanks!
[14:55] <sil2100> yw!
[15:48] <xavigarcia> Mirv: ping
[15:52] <xavigarcia> Mirv: Just wanted to ask you about bug 1485522... Is the QML component fix ready in vivid overlay? If not... could we create a silo including the fix so I can test if it makes the sound indicator work OK?
[16:01] <Mirv> xavigarcia: I'm not aware of a QML component fix that could be shipped. the one mentioned in #5 is in the 5.4.1 we're using, and there is no mention of other possible fixes.
[16:01] <Mirv> I also didn't get a reply to my Dec 16th upstream contact
[16:05] <xavigarcia> Mirv: Okay.. so it means we have to wait for a response, right?
[16:05] <Mirv> xavigarcia: yes or if David or someone else on our side can come up with a solution
[16:05] <xavigarcia> Mirv: or do you think there is something else we can look at?
[16:05] <xavigarcia> Mirv: I see
[16:06] <xavigarcia> Mirv: Thanks!
[16:06] <Mirv> xavigarcia: ie diwic or jhodapp, diwic seems the most "inside" the problem.
[16:06] <Mirv> no problem
[19:26] <sil2100> jibel: hey, do you know if the required trust-store translations are in?
[19:27] <sil2100> jibel: we had the auto-uploads of langpacks today, I'm wondering if we should kick another one or are those enough to copy to rc
[19:27] <jibel> sil2100, let me check
[19:28] <sil2100> jibel: es looks fine from LP POV
[19:28] <sil2100> Since the translations were added on the 18th
[19:30] <jibel> sil2100, I checked language-pack-touch-fr and the right strings are in the langpack with the correct translation
[19:31] <jibel> in the .deb
[19:32] <jibel> spanish is fine too
[19:33] <sil2100> I suppose we might do the copy then
[19:33] <jibel> and chinese
[19:33] <jibel> sil2100, yeah go ahead
[19:33] <pmcgowan> jibel, whats the latest
[19:34] <sil2100> I wouldn't want to do those like *right now* since I don't like fixing things late at night, but tomorrow morning I'll copy and rebuild
[19:36] <pmcgowan> oh mn music-app never landed
[19:37] <jibel> pmcgowan, the regression with the content hub is concerning, it may hide more than just a problme with the camera, kenvandine and Kaleo are on it. otherwise nothing we don't already know
[19:37] <jibel> yeah and music app and IAP didn't land
[19:37] <pmcgowan> I wonder if the music app export issue is content hub also?
[19:37] <ahayzen> music-app is waiting for OTA9 to be released ? it is otherwise ready (ignoring a flaky jenkins issue)
[19:38] <kenvandine> pmcgowan, shouldn't be
[19:38] <ahayzen> pmcgowan, that was fixed, it was something missed when updating to the new listitems
[19:38] <pmcgowan> ahayzen, ok, and alesage is aware?
[19:38] <kenvandine> the content-hub issue isn't a regression in content-hub, we're thinking maybe qtmir
[19:38] <jibel> ahayzen, it can be published to the store, there is a bump of the version of the framework and users of pre-OTA9 won't see the update
[19:38] <ahayzen> pmcgowan, i told him we had fixed all the issues he had found
[19:38] <pmcgowan> great news
[19:38] <ahayzen> jibel, the branch isn't top approved yet, and if we pushed then it would disappear from the store for stable users
[19:39] <ahayzen> so i'd rather wait until post ota9
[19:39] <sil2100> ahayzen: I suppose we can publish, we checked yesterday that new users won't be able to install it on their stable phones
[19:39] <sil2100> Oh
[19:39] <jibel> alesage, ^ music app is good to land from your perspective?
[19:39] <sil2100> It would?
[19:39] <sil2100> Ah
[19:39] <ahayzen> jibel, it would probably need to go through QA again right?
[19:39] <alesage> jibel, we should give it a glance, yes?
[19:39] <alesage> ahayzen, is there a new build?
[19:40] <ahayzen> sil2100, other people were reporting that when they were putting apps with the new framework into the store, it disappears from the store for say OTA8.5 users?
[19:40] <jibel> pff
[19:40] <jibel> really that's bad
[19:40] <sil2100> Yeah, I guess we had this thing once
[19:41] <sil2100> Forgot about it, the store is really really broken
[19:41] <pmcgowan> well thats a feature :)
[19:41] <ahayzen> alesage, there isn't a new build, as we were trying to fix a jenkins issue, but i've found that that affects weather aswell, so looks like it is a flaky sdk helper in autopilot. We should get the branch landed and then check with popey then hand over a new click to test :-)
[19:41] <pmcgowan> probably lots of apps wanting to use 1.3 components
[19:41] <jibel> bad features exist too ;)
[19:42]  * ahayzen waits for the day of the beta-store
[19:42] <pmcgowan> I blame beuno but hes not here
[19:42] <alesage> ahayzen, ack, I'll assume we'll use the normal process unless jibel says otherwise, feel free to badger me then
[19:43] <jibel> alesage, that's fine we'll retest it since it cannot be published before the release anyway
[19:43] <alesage> jibel, ack very well
[20:34] <mterry> robru, did you lose github.com/robru?
[20:34] <robru> mterry: yeah I deleted it a while ago. why, did somebody take it?
[20:34] <mterry> robru, looks like it
[20:34] <mterry> robru, did you move somewhere else or just not need those branches anymore?
[20:35] <robru> lol
[20:35] <robru> mterry: I moved everything into launchpad.
[20:35] <robru> mterry: my only notable thing was gottengeography anyway
[20:35] <robru> mterry: you spying on me?! ;-)
[20:36] <robru> mterry: https://code.launchpad.net/~robru/+git
[20:37] <mterry> robru, no I just had a bookmark to your dotfiles branch and I noticed it recently and thought "I wonder what's in there now?"
[20:37] <robru> hah, wow. i honestly thought nobody ever looked at those
[20:38] <mterry> robru, first time in a long time  :)  But nice to know that I have a bunch of aliases to steal if I get bored of mine  :)
[20:39] <robru> mterry: one thing you might find interesting is https://git.launchpad.net/~robru/+git/pad which is a wrapper around bzr to automate some lp interactions (basically it makes some assumptions about your filesystem in order to save you typing, so 'bzr branch' becomes shorthand for 'bzr branch $(basename $PWD)' and a few other goodies.


[01:37] <cjwatson> alesage,bzoltan_: I think that https://code.launchpad.net/~cjwatson/ubuntu-ui-toolkit/src_test-depends/+merge/281713 should fix the powerpc build problems (and as mentioned in the MP it doesn't seem to be anything very specific to powerpc, just a parallel-build problem with sufficient CPUs, so worth fixing in any case)
[01:57] <alesage> cjwatson, ack, will make a note on our trello for EU AM
[03:06] <bzoltan_> cjwatson: Thanks for the MR. I thought that it must be a parallel-build issue.
[03:07] <bzoltan_> alesage:  I have manually merged this fix to the lnding branch and let the MR automerge to the staging branch. The build will be ready soon too.
[03:50] <bzoltan_> cjwatson: alesage: all good in silo https://launchpad.net/~ci-train-ppa-service/+archive/ubuntu/landing-056 Thank you again for the fix.
[10:47] <cjwatson> bzoltan_: yay
[12:44] <jibel> trainguards: sil2100 being off today, anyone would know why there is no phone build today? the rootfs build successfully apparently but there is no new image in rc-proposed.
[12:46] <cjwatson> maybe something to do with the i386 rootfs failing to build?
[12:46] <cjwatson> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-cdimage/+livefs/ubuntu/vivid/ubuntu-touch/+build/48004
[13:01] <jibel> maybe, and it could be related to this unsatisfiable depends https://requests.ci-train.ubuntu.com/static/britney/vivid/landing-058/excuses.html
[13:08] <jibel> confirmed it's the problem
[16:13] <alesage> tvoss, seeing "needs rebuild" but not sure if this is due to sweeny's branch special status https://requests.ci-train.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/731
[16:14] <tvoss> alesage, hmmm, let me see
[16:14] <tvoss> alesage, might actually be required ... checking
[16:15] <tvoss> yup, kicked
[16:15] <tvoss> alesage, my apologies :/
[16:15] <alesage> tvoss, ack, nw, quick review forthcoming
[16:15] <mvo_> trainguards - the image importer appears to be disabled, is there a reaon for this? we need to import a new snappy image
[16:17] <kenvandine> mvo_, i'm filling in for robru today, i know nothing about that though
[16:17] <kenvandine> sil2100, oh you're still around... ^^ ?
[16:19] <mvo_> kenvandine: if sil2100 is not around it would be great if someone could telegram him for a quick yes/no if I can run image imports, its unfortunately important and urgent (not OMG urgent, but I would like to get updated images before my EOD so that the next team can take over and work with them)
[16:21] <kenvandine> i'm sure sil2100 is still around, if he doesn't reply soon i'll find someone that has him on telegram
[16:21] <sil2100> mvo_: it's good to enable it
[16:21] <sil2100> I was doing some quick image copies earlier
[16:22] <pmcgowan> sil2100, did we not do an auto build last night?
[16:22] <sil2100> mvo_: sorry about that!
[16:23] <mvo_> sil2100: no problem, thanks
[16:23] <mvo_> sil2100: I reanbled them now
[16:23] <sil2100> mvo_: thanks!
[16:24] <sil2100> pmcgowan: we did, but we also had a i386 build failure... but we should get the armhf image imported now anyway
[16:24] <pmcgowan> ok
[16:26] <sil2100> seb128: hey! Another binNEW review required! https://requests.ci-train.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/818 <- here, they add a new package called libubuntugestures5-private-dev
[16:26] <sil2100> seb128: if you would have a moment of time in the nearest days we would be grateful :)
[16:26] <sil2100> seb128: the packaging diff: https://ci-train.ubuntu.com/job/ubuntu-landing-056-2-publish/2/artifact/ubuntu-ui-toolkit_xenial_packaging_changes.diff
[16:26] <seb128> sil2100, hey, ok, I can have a look
[16:26] <Mirv> sil2100: btw I got PPU rights for UITK among else now :)
[16:26] <sil2100> kenvandine: this silo needs a +1 from the archive team ^
[16:27] <sil2100> Mirv: \o/ yaay :)
[16:27] <kenvandine> sil2100, ok
[16:37] <sil2100> Mirv: since you're around for a moment, do you remember how we're supposed to force a silo publish when the silo has 'bad status'? (like, FTBFS for an arch we don't care about etc.)
[16:41] <Mirv> sil2100: I think there's no force publish option nowadays, the only option is manual copy
[16:41] <Mirv> so I guess there's no such thing as an arch we don't care about :)
[16:42] <Mirv> I kind of meant not to be around, but I noticed I can push the Jenkins agenda forward so pushing a couple of buttons :)
[16:42] <kenvandine> sil2100, something's up with silo 15
[16:42] <kenvandine> it's been published and merged since monday
[16:43] <kenvandine> it had an error and hadn't freed the silo yet
[16:43] <kenvandine> so i tried to abandon it
[16:43] <kenvandine> now the status is abandoned, but it still has the assigned silo?
[16:43] <kenvandine> sil2100, it did delete the packages in the ppa
[16:44] <kenvandine> but it looks to me like the silo is still assigned, so maybe the ppa is being held?
[16:47] <sil2100> hmmm
[16:48] <sil2100> kenvandine: where do you see the silo still is assigned?
[16:48] <kenvandine> the ppa description still lists settings
[16:48] <kenvandine> i thought that stuff got flushed out
[16:48] <kenvandine> and
[16:48] <kenvandine> Name of Assigned Silo	ubuntu/landing-015
[16:49] <kenvandine> which might not mean anything
[16:49] <kenvandine> but the status had been set to "Uncaught exception"
[16:49] <kenvandine> before i abandoned it
[16:49] <kenvandine> https://requests.ci-train.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/821
[16:59] <bzoltan_> sil2100:  would you please publish the silo56? It will need a jedi's ack.. because it has debian space change... including one from kenvandine
[17:00] <sil2100> kenvandine: the PPA description is not cleared on silo clearing
[17:00] <sil2100> bzoltan_: yeah, I poked seb128 about that already :)
[17:00] <sil2100> bzoltan_: since we need a binNEW approval
[17:00] <bzoltan_> sil2100:  super! Thank you and thank to seb128
[17:01] <sil2100> kenvandine: so I *think* the silo is freed already
[17:05] <kenvandine> sil2100, good, thanks
[17:10] <seb128> sil2100, bzoltan_, looks fine for binNEW
[17:17] <cjwatson> perl 5.22 landing in xenial
[17:18] <cjwatson> big transition, 593 source packages.  hopefully will be a non-event for touch but just in case
[17:22] <sil2100> seb128: thanks! :)
[17:23] <sil2100> bzoltan_: published o/
[17:23] <bzoltan_> sil2100:  Cool!
[17:23] <sil2100> kenvandine: ok, I go back offline now, if you could keep a look out on the publishable page I would be grateful :)
[17:23] <sil2100> o/
[17:26] <alex_abreu> sil2100, I have an issue w/ https://requests.ci-train.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/759, it tries to build for packages that were removed, ... the source package names initially were 'webbrowser-app webapps-demo' but now should only be webbrowser-app, but it still fails to build & re-add webapps-demo for every triggered build
[18:44] <alex_abreu> robru, ping
[18:45] <robru> alex_abreu: I'm off today can you try kenvandine ?
[18:46] <robru> alex_abreu: you need to remove the source package names from the ticket
[18:46] <robru> And the ppa
[18:49] <alex_abreu> robru, kenvandine well I did ...
[18:49] <alex_abreu> but everytime I rebuild I readds them
[18:50] <kenvandine> did you delete them from the ppa?
[18:50] <alex_abreu> ah not from ppa
[18:50] <robru> alex_abreu: yeah it re-adds based on the ppa
[18:50] <robru> alex_abreu: also is this a source package rename?
[18:51] <alex_abreu> robru, not a rename, only a removal of one of the source package from the list
[18:51] <robru> alex_abreu: OK, should work if deleted from PPA then. kenvandine will have to do that
[18:52] <alex_abreu> ok thx
[19:36] <alex_abreu> kenvandine, could you remove the webapps-demo source package from the ppa?
[19:36] <alex_abreu> kenvandine, in https://launchpad.net/~ci-train-ppa-service/+archive/ubuntu/landing-014
[19:37] <kenvandine> alex_abreu, sure
[19:38] <kenvandine> alex_abreu, done
[19:38] <alex_abreu> kenvandine, thx !
[19:38] <kenvandine> np


[08:49] <bootlfdhfrsa> http://mad.ly/04f523?pact=12145030818&fe=1
[08:49] <czajkowski> bootlfdhfrsa: morning
[08:50] <bootlfdhfrsa> czajkowski, Hi there You in Ireland, or not ?
[08:50] <czajkowski> I am currently
[08:51] <czajkowski> I'm at home till the end of the month
[08:51] <bootlfdhfrsa> Yeah, I'm listening to 96FM at the moment . In Douglas.
[08:51] <czajkowski> I'm in Castleconnell
[08:51] <czajkowski> so nenagh side of limerick
[08:51] <bootlfdhfrsa> I would like to know more about the Ubunutu/Linux Irish scene.
[08:52] <czajkowski> it's quiet but it is there
[08:52] <czajkowski> today in limerick for example there is an open source meet up which seems to happen from time to time
[08:52] <bootlfdhfrsa> nothing changed then !
[08:52] <czajkowski> next week I'm giving a talk to the UL students on how to get involved in ubuntu
[08:53] <czajkowski> and at the weekend we had skycon.skynet.ie
[08:53] <bootlfdhfrsa> Which would you say is the best place for open source in Ireland/ Uni's etc . ?
[08:54] <bootlfdhfrsa> BRBack (making a cuppa tea)
[08:55] <bootlfdhfrsa> Oh poo ! only half a dozen tea bags left .. need to pop to the shops at midday .
[08:56] <bootlfdhfrsa> czajkowski, Still there ?
[08:57] <czajkowski> yes
[08:57] <bootlfdhfrsa> Is Limerick the best Linux course in Ireland, then ?
[08:57] <czajkowski> not sure I'd say that tbh
[08:58] <czajkowski> each college has it's own merrit
[08:58] <czajkowski> it really depends on the student
[08:58] <bootlfdhfrsa> Right I was looking for one with a good quality Lug etc.
[08:58] <ebel> IME one advantage of universities is that there are local computer/internet societies so you can do linuxy things
[08:58] <czajkowski> ebel: morning
[08:58] <ebel> Depends what you want out of it aswell.
[08:59] <czajkowski> so UL has skynet and it's active enough
[08:59] <ebel> czajkowski: 'ello. enjoying being back home? :)
[08:59] <czajkowski> DCU has redbrick which is large and active
[08:59] <bootlfdhfrsa> ebel .. I wanna be chris pirillo.
[08:59] <czajkowski> galway has 091 labs
[08:59] <czajkowski> dublin is larger and has more options and events and has the hackspace
[08:59] <czajkowski> it really depends tbh, also cost I suspect comes into it
[09:00] <bootlfdhfrsa> mmm hackspace .., Any other than Dublin ?
[09:00] <czajkowski> yes
[09:00] <czajkowski> 091 labs galway
[09:00] <bootlfdhfrsa> e.g.  ?
[09:00] <bootlfdhfrsa> oh galway Ok
[09:00] <czajkowski> and I think there was milk labs in limerick not sure if they are active
[09:00] <ebel> bootlfdhfrsa: there are serveral irish hackerspaces. tog in dublin, 091 labs in galway, milkspace in limerick (I think), nexus in cork
[09:00] <bootlfdhfrsa> do they have a website ?
[09:00] <czajkowski> and I heard something abour Cork but not sure
[09:00] <ebel> think there's one setting up in droghede and/or belfast aswell
[09:01] <bootlfdhfrsa> I looked at tog website for a while.. but I'm not into the lockpicking course they were doing, so i moved on.
[09:02]  * ebel is a member of tog, there are loads of things in tog, not just lock picking.
[09:02] <bootlfdhfrsa> Oh Ok. great.
[09:03] <bootlfdhfrsa> scanning 4   091 labs...
[09:04] <czajkowski> also a lab/hackspace is what you make it as well
[09:04] <ebel> agreed
[09:05] <ebel> re: uni & linux, again, depends what you make of it
[09:05] <czajkowski> same with any group
[09:05] <czajkowski> ebel: exactly
[09:05] <ebel> you can do a lot in linux without uni, and you can go to uni and do no linux.
[09:05] <bootlfdhfrsa> http://091labs.com/  looks good.
[09:05] <bootlfdhfrsa> surprised its not a .ORG
[09:06] <bootlfdhfrsa> I was wondering how 091labs.com/wiki/ qualifies as a wiki... as I cannot make changes to it.
[09:06] <bootlfdhfrsa> & there's no 'talk' page .. but I 'm ok with it.
[09:07] <ebel> bootlfdhfrsa: some of these wikis are for members only
[09:08] <bootlfdhfrsa> mmm OK
[09:09]  * bootlfdhfrsa think Kerry needs one.
[09:09] <bootlfdhfrsa> Can you do computing @ Tralee ?
[09:10] <bootlfdhfrsa> ** Tralee (ITT)
[09:11] <bootlfdhfrsa> scanning for ITT stuff..
[09:11] <czajkowski> yes I'm sure you can
[09:13] <bootlfdhfrsa> mmm  	3,500 students .. bit small for /the action/
[09:14] <bootlfdhfrsa> Anyone listening to 96FM today ?
[09:16] <czajkowski> nope working away here :)
[09:17] <bootlfdhfrsa> Work (?)    ... there's a word .
[09:18] <ebel> ditto, at work too
[09:19] <bootlfdhfrsa> Where as I am in internet-land.
[11:22] <bootlfdhfrsa> ebel, Is there an open source summit in Ireland at all ?
[11:22] <czajkowski> bootlfdhfrsa: different events not a summit as such
[11:22] <tdr112> bootlfdhfrsa: I think think there is a summit event
[11:22] <tdr112> dont
[11:22] <czajkowski> we just had skycon 130 people
[11:22] <tdr112> *
[11:22] <czajkowski> there is also pycon
[11:23] <bootlfdhfrsa> is pycon in galway ?
[11:23] <czajkowski> and tdr112 is invlved in the dublin hackspace so they run lots of events
[11:23] <czajkowski> nope dublin I think
[11:23] <bootlfdhfrsa> scanning 4 pycon/ireland.
[11:27] <bootlfdhfrsa> ... It looks a bit messy .. I think I'd prefer the galway meetups.
[11:29] <bootlfdhfrsa> Ireland desperately needs an open source event .. I cant even think of one in Europe to compare to the one in Oregon.
[11:29] <czajkowski> FOSDEM
[11:29] <czajkowski> 5K geeks
[11:29] <czajkowski> 300 talks
[11:29] <czajkowski> key signing
[11:29] <czajkowski> LPI exams
[11:29] <bootlfdhfrsa> been there.
[11:29] <zmoylan> and there's hackerspaces in a few places around ireland now.  http://hackerspaces.org/wiki/Ireland
[11:30] <bootlfdhfrsa> I found FOSDEM to be far too developer-centic .. where is the event for the average user ?
[11:31] <bootlfdhfrsa> *major event*
[11:32] <zmoylan> define average user?
[11:33] <bootlfdhfrsa> i.e. The average END-user ..
[11:33] <czajkowski> bootlfdhfrsa: eh not really
[11:33] <zmoylan> a very nebulous term
[11:33] <czajkowski> not at all if you find there is not one talk for you outta over 300 there is something wrong
[11:33] <czajkowski> it caters for all levels
[11:33] <czajkowski> hell you can sit in the lightning talk room and just hear all sorts all day long
[11:33] <czajkowski> or go to the distro rooms like mozilla and hear debates or disucssions on community
[11:35] <bootlfdhfrsa> czajkowski, True, but as I have to take a flight to get there, I think that my time would be better going West than East, and go to one of the american FOSS conferences next time . IMHO.
[11:36] <tdr112> bootlfdhfrsa: i dont think there is demand for a big end user open source event
[11:36] <bootlfdhfrsa> anyway, FOSDEM was snowing last year ... and I hate snow.
[11:36] <thethomaseffect_> There's a python night in 091 labs galway tonight at 8pm fyi :)
[11:37] <zmoylan> a bit developery? :-)
[11:37] <bootlfdhfrsa> thethomaseffect, Thanx, I make it my waypoint in the coming months.
[11:39] <czajkowski> bootlfdhfrsa: true, each to their own, I prefer to support EU events.
[11:39] <bootlfdhfrsa> mmmh .. An 'open source big public event that isn't too cold' [?] ... I'll ask/email Chris Pirillo.
[11:41] <thethomaseffect> It's not too developer-y as you say, galway hackerspace peeps are very friendly :)
[11:48] <bootlfdhfrsa> tdr112, Which is kinda the reason I'm in this chatroom, right ?
[13:26] <tdr112> bootlfdhfrsa: I dont understand you, you want to run an event ?
[13:38] <bootlfdhfrsa> tdr112, I already AM  runing a monthly event ... Just saying it would be nice to do an annual event for people to travel to, In Ireland like OSCON
[13:40] <bootlfdhfrsa> I think the Irish Government could greatly benefit from seeing GNU + Opensource in Action.
[13:40] <bootlfdhfrsa> aswell as the business community at large.
[13:59] <ebel> Yep.
[13:59] <ebel> You new to Ireland?
[14:17] <tdr112> what event are you running at the meoment
[14:17] <tdr112> moment
[14:53] <czajkowski> http://isatechbrew.eventbrite.ie/  dublin flks
[18:32] <airurando> I see tdr112 and czajkowski make cameo appearances in oggcamp-interactive documentary http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K15PIGuiLKw
[18:32] <airurando> looking good people!


[00:11] <agrif> Hello! I'm trying to register on launchpad.net, but the confirmation email hasn't come.
[00:12] <agrif> It's been a while, and I'm on a GMail account, and I've checked my spam folder.
[04:18] <ebergen> so this bzr error happens when I try to merge http://pastebin.com/BGskvFN1
[05:34] <lifeless> OOPS-548f981f6e0a359a55f6817b2d5817
[15:19] <pulb> hey guys, got a question: WHO can request builds for a recipe? only the owner or everybody with a launchpad account?
[16:06] <maxb> pulb: I believe you need to have upload permissions for the PPA the requested builds are going to
[16:11] <pulb> macx
[16:11] <pulb> maxb: ok, thanks!
[20:01] <DanRabbit> anyone on that knows anything about milestones constantly timing out?


[00:17] <__lucio__> sladen: in what context?
[00:22] <sladen> __lucio__: I think it was ubunet related, somewhere on the bugtracker  "we'll also need the involvement of IDS" or sometsuch
[00:32] <dobey> eh
[00:32] <dobey> ISD generally means "independent software distributor"
[00:33] <dobey> and i think the palm pre currently has no way to accept self-signed certificates :(
[02:12] <sladen> __lucio__: dobey: I'm guessing it's https://launchpad.net/~canonical-isd-hackers
[02:44] <lifeless> dobey: ISD is the is development team :P
[03:01] <dobey> oh right, that too
[03:51] <sladen> lifeless: and what's "is" ?
[05:04] <lifeless> sladen: information services
[05:28] <sladen> lifeless: is that elmo?
[05:30] <sladen> lifeless: or something more general relating to internal-systems/webservices.  Anyway, doesn't matter, it's enough of an expansion for unexpand the TLA
[06:06] <lifeless> more general
[17:21] <ian__> bye
[23:38] <Slick666> hello all
[23:38] <Slick666> I have an account but I'm not sure if I've requested an account w/ubuntu one
[23:38] <Slick666> does anyone know the way to verify the request?
[23:44] <dobey> account != subscription
[23:44] <dobey> account means you can "log in" on ubuntuone.com and launchpad.net
[23:45] <dobey> subscription means you have actually agreed to the ToS and can use the services on ubuntu one
[23:47] <dobey> and yes, there has been confusion about that, and we're working out how to make some of this stuff more clear :)


[11:52] <yorwos> hi, im trying to run kwin , looks like everything needed is installed but when i do "kwin --replace" i get lots of errors , using amd proprietary ubuntu studio 13.10 64bit
[11:53] <cfhowlett> !13.10 | yorwos,
[11:53] <cfhowlett> !eol
[11:59] <yorwos> how can i backup my desktop preferences and shortcuts for a fresh install ? should i just backup the whole /home and drop it over and replace or ?
[12:00] <cfhowlett> yorwos, personally, I've moved /home to a dedicated partition.  On installation, don't format, but set it as /home. done
[12:00] <cfhowlett> !home
[12:02] <yorwos> aha thanx im on it ;)
[16:12] <saruman> hello
[16:12] <Guest25687> I installed ubuntu server, but it comes out ubuntu studio
[16:12] <Guest25687> I-m new
[16:13] <cfhowlett> Guest25687, do you have the ISO you downloaded?
[16:13] <Guest25687> 14.04
[16:13] <Guest25687> im looking for it
[16:13] <Guest25687> ubuntu server 14.04 lts
[16:14] <cfhowlett> !md5sum | Guest25687
[16:15] <cfhowlett> verify that ISO
[16:15] <Guest25687> ok
[16:17] <Guest25687> what do i do after verifying the iso}
[16:18] <cfhowlett> Guest25687, one step at a time ...
[16:22] <Guest25687> i dont have the .iso file
[16:22] <Guest25687> i have the usb bootable
[16:22] <cfhowlett> Guest25687, I'm betting that you installed ubuntustudio not ubuntu server.  boot the USB bootable and check
[16:22] <Guest25687> ok, I-ll restart to check on that
[16:22] <Guest25687> thanks!
[22:43] <pedrucho> hi have i got voice?
[22:44] <pedrucho> whats the linux music application similar to guitar pro?
[22:51] <feel> hey yall im having a problem with ardour3 when I start it up I get this terminal looking window called "ardour log" that says [ERROR]: JACK: Cannot use real-time scheduling (RR/5)(1:option not permitted) & [ERROR]: JACK: JackCliant::AquireSelfRealTime error any tips


 @Ivoriesablaze do you have Shadow of Morrdor?
 @KMyers Amazon Echo Dot is looking pretty cool at 50 bucks
 Yep, and I saw the slickdeal
 And I'm thinking about the dot
 I don't get it.  OnHub says I'm offline but I'm not.
 @KMyers  any ideas?
 Do you have a firewall rule restricting it from accessing the internet
 No
 Have you tried to reboot it?
 Yes
 Strange, what happens if you connect a device to it, can it hit the internet
 Yep
 Not sure to be honest. You may want to contact OnHubs support
 http://motherboard.vice.com/read/a-teenage-hacker-figured-out-how-to-get-free-data-on-his-phone-t-mobile
 The dot looks cool
 Nice
 I went to a ctf recently at fiu
 alan can hack?
 Lol meh
 Nov 5 is winning the poll so far
 ?
 Oh
 Did you not get the doodle in the ML @govatent ?
 Ml?
 Mailing list
 I did not. Let me make sure it's not setup for my old Comcast address I don't check anymore
 Yea do that
 I would like to invite you to the Doodle poll “Ubuntu Fl LoCo 16.10 Release Party”. Please follow the link to participate in the poll: https://doodle.com/poll/ehc86m4qm5d2dy96
 Also that way @govatent and @all
 Has science gone too far?!?!
 Oh damn
 @KMyers and anyone on the family plan I just got LIMBO on the play store
 Yep
 Can't wait to eventually play it on the chromebook, lol
 I knew it was either @Ivoriesablaze or @RazPi
 @Ivoriesablaze got any ideas for a place for the release party?
 Lol
 Its not Orlando?
 The area yes
 So why would I have any ideas?
 no harm in asking
 Lol
 http://daptr.com/index.html
 it had to be done
 How long before apple shuts that down?
 not sure lol


[17:28] <qwebirc90251> hi
[17:28] <qwebirc90251> i am looking for customization in mythbuntu for commercial user
[17:28] <qwebirc90251> any halp ?
[17:28] <qwebirc90251> any help ?


[00:32] <stokachu> are canonical employees eligible for the charm contest?
[00:58] <jcastro> stokachu: nope
[00:58] <jcastro> arosales: one way
[01:24] <arosales> jcastro, whew, may want to confirm that on the list.
[01:24] <stokachu> aw and i had some good ideas
[09:17] <cjwatson> So - after upgrading from Python juju to juju-core (by way of a general saucy upgrade, I wasn't specifically trying to upgrade), I can no longer access my existing deployment: juju status returns "error: no CA certificate in environment configuration".  How do I fix this?
[09:17] <cjwatson> (Don't say "bootstrap again".)
[09:26]  * cjwatson files https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/juju-core/+bug/1200878
[09:26] <_mup_> Bug #1200878: Upgrade breaks existing pyjuju deployment <regression-release> <juju-core (Ubuntu):New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1200878>
[11:50] <marcoceppi> cjwatson: this is a known issue. you need pyjuju to access pyjuju environments. you should be able to update-alternatives and select 0.7 for juju
[14:36] <AskUbuntu> Can I make the MAAS server Juju machine 0? | http://askubuntu.com/q/319618
[16:11] <bmullan> does juju GO have LXC support fully implemented yet?
[16:12] <cjwatson> marcoceppi: Thanks.  That seems as though it might have been worth some documentation in the package, such as a debian/NEWS file.
[16:13] <cjwatson> (I would have read such a thing; I use apt-listchanges.)
[16:15] <marcoceppi> bmullan: not yet, it's due to land soon-ish


[03:51] <leif_> greetis
[03:51] <leif_> greetins
[09:44] <lderan> elfy: tried a few more applications with autopilot last night, thunderbird opens up but doesn't seem to receive keyboard commands shall see if I am doing something wrong with it, Mousepad is also effected by this. Catfish seems to be fine with keyboard entry so far.
[10:08] <slickymaster> morning all
[10:12] <lderan> good morning slickymaster
[10:12] <slickymaster> hi lderan, good morning
[10:46] <slickymaster> ochosi, jjfrv8_ bluesabre, The "Save Playlist" item has been added to http://smdavis.us/doku/doku.php?id=usage#play_media and a new paragraph was added in the "Sow Playlist" itel of http://smdavis.us/doku/doku.php?id=usage#playback
[10:46] <slickymaster> itel <- item
[10:50] <slickymaster> ochosi, jjfrv8_, bluesabre, before starting the Video section there's still the Audio -> Audio Track to be done. Thing is that I'm facing https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/parole/+bug/1098323 with each DVD I use. I've already tried
[10:51] <slickymaster> ochosi, jjfrv8_, bluesabre, I've already tried Unit193 workaround to no avail. Any suggestions?
[10:52] <bluesabre> slickymaster, I'm sorry, but for some reason I cannot get DVDs to work in 13.10.  It does work in 13.04 though, for some reason
[10:52] <brainwash> bug 1248194
[10:53] <bluesabre> ooh, definitely that
[10:54] <slickymaster> bluesabre: well, I can always set up a VM with 13.04, install Parole 0.5.90 there to get it done
[10:56] <bluesabre> thats the easiest thing to do
[10:57] <bluesabre> I'm actually running 13.04 myself, so if you don't want to go through that effort, I can probably fill in that portion
[10:59] <slickymaster> bluesabre: np, I'm sure your plate is pretty full and you already have too much to deal with. I'll do it
[11:00] <bluesabre> thanks, I appreciate that slickymaster :)
[11:00] <slickymaster> bluesabre: np
[11:31] <jjfrv8_> slickymaster, good morning. Do you know if the DVDs you're trying to play have multiple audio tracks?
[11:36] <slickymaster> jjfrv8_: yes, they have. After talking with bluesabre I've decided to set up a VM with 13.04, installed Parole 0.5.9 and everything is working now
[11:37] <jjfrv8_> does Parole show the multiple tracks for you?
[11:38] <bluesabre> I'm not sure if parole actually displays multiple audio tracks on a DVD, I know it works with files with multiple tracks (like anime with english/japanese tracks)
[11:38] <slickymaster> jjfrv8_ bluesabre: no it's just showinh one track and I know this specific DVD has more than one
[11:39] <bluesabre> I need to see if totem supports that, and if so, figure out how they do it
[11:39] <bluesabre> I've always got to work around gstreamer limitations
[11:39] <jjfrv8_> that's what I saw too. I made an iso with two audio tracks and VLC shows them and switches between them but Parole only shows the one.
[11:39] <slickymaster> jjfrv8_ bluesabre, same here
[11:40] <slickymaster> jjfrv8_ bluesabre, but for the Parole docs I was planning on making a screenshot of it anyway. Do you think it's better not to do it?
[11:41] <bluesabre> I'll add a screenshot for that, I have a file with multiple tracks
[11:42] <slickymaster> ok, I'll leave that item altogether then for you to do it bluesabre and start with the Video section
[12:55] <ochosi> hi folks
[12:55] <bluesabre> hey ochosi
[12:56] <ochosi> slickymaster: i'll update docs.xfce then
[12:56] <ochosi> hey bluesabre
[12:56] <ochosi> wow, you're still around at this hour? :)
[12:56] <bluesabre> getting ready to run out actually
[12:56] <ochosi> ah
[12:56] <slickymaster> good morning ochosi
[12:58] <slickymaster> ochosi: thanks for updating docs.xfce with my alterations
[12:59] <ochosi> no problem
[13:00] <ochosi> always feel free to check whether i haven't messed anything up
[13:00] <ochosi> i always have to do it by hand
[13:00] <ochosi> since all the image-links have different namespaces in docs.xfce.org i can't just select everything and copy it over when a new paragraph was added...
[13:00] <slickymaster> ochosi: don't worry, I'll check later and in need, I'll ping you about it
[13:00] <ochosi> great, thanks!
[13:04] <ochosi> ok, should be done now
[13:07] <slickymaster> ochosi, everything seems ok
[13:07] <ochosi> cool
[13:07] <slickymaster> thanks
[13:07] <ochosi> thanks for checking :)
[13:07] <ochosi> and for writing it up
[13:07] <slickymaster> nnp
[13:07] <ochosi> the docs are really getting into such a nice shape
[13:07] <slickymaster> :) it's a pleasure to help you guys
[13:11] <ochosi> :)
[13:29] <ochosi> slickymaster: there might be more opportunities to contribute to xfce-docs after parole. if you're interested i can keep you updated
[14:08] <elfy> lderan: thanks - I have to assume that someone will look at tbird - it being used ubuntu wide
[14:14] <lderan> shall see if it is my test is the thing at fault which is likely :P
[14:15]  * elfy would be surprised if tbird worked - you know that a question in -quality would probably tell you :)
[15:20] <lderan> elfy: sounds like a good idea to me :)
[15:23] <slickymaster> ochosi: of course I'm interested. You can count me in.
[16:04] <elfy> lderan: so I asked :p
[16:05] <lderan> elfy: was going to wait till after work :P
[16:05] <elfy> :)
[16:05] <elfy> it'll be a while till he see's it I suspect anyway
[17:27] <elfy> lderan: I assume you saw - but there is a bit more information in -quality
[18:47] <slickymaster>  /quit
[18:48] <slickymaster>  /quit
[18:48] <elfy> 3rd time is the charm ...
[19:57] <skellat> Here's what I've got for vUDS-1311 sessions to attend: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1311/participant/skellat/
[20:02] <lderan> elfy, shall read it now
[20:03]  * slickymaster is away: (Dinner time)
[20:07] <ali1234> skellat: someone pointed out to me the other day that 13.04 will go out of support before 14.04 is released, but 12.10 will still be supported, possible stranding people with no upgrade path
[20:08] <ali1234> something to raise in that upgrade session i guess
[20:08] <ali1234> i might have got the numbers wrong, but there's some issue like this
[20:13] <elfy> ali1234: I'm pretty sure that an upgrade path is planned for this one of problem
[20:13] <elfy> by that I mean I read something recently about it
[20:13] <ali1234> well, you'd hope so :)
[20:13] <ali1234> and yeah it is one off
[20:15] <elfy> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2013-February/036628.html
[20:15] <elfy> spills into March
[20:15] <elfy> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2013-March/036649.html
[20:17] <elfy> ali1234: hope those help
[20:17] <ali1234> i'll pass it on. i always do a fresh installl anyway :)
[20:17] <ali1234> cheers
[20:17] <elfy> ok
[20:18] <elfy> about the only time I upgrade is when I'm the only one testing it for us :(