[08:18] <Burgundavia> bigbrother0074: no idea, but I know that the free flash library doesn't support most of the features of flash
[08:18] <thoreauputic> cef_work: rofl
[08:18] <Burgundavia> bigbrother0074: as for the effort to compile on 64, no idea
[08:19] <ultrafunk> cef_work: dude, that could have described quite a few people :)
[08:19] <cef_work> ultrafunk: shush you.. mr cream guy!
[08:19] <bigbrother0074> berg: well, anything is better than nothing i guess...can you talk me through it or point me in the right direction?
[08:19] <Kaloz> re
[08:19] <Despair> bigbrother0074: libflash-mozplugin
[08:20] <spikeb> swfdec is better heh
[08:20] <bigbrother0074> Despair: what, apt-get install that?
[08:20] <Despair> spikeb: sure, but what's it's plugin for firefox?
[08:20] <spikeb> hmm
[08:22] <Despair> swf-player
[08:22] <bigbrother0074> Despair:  so what do i do?
[08:22] <Burgundavia> bigbrother0074: you have just hit the depth of my information
[08:23] <Burgundavia> bigbrother0074: I run 32bit, so I cannot help you
[08:23] <cef_work> thoreauputic: admittedly, the AI Chat program was fantastic at emulating people with a big enough database.. random answers, variable typing speed, pauses, typographical errors that made sense looking at a keyboard, reversed keystrokes, and even going back and correcting them.. all settable threshholds
[08:23] <bigbrother0074> Burgundavia:  haha, thanks anyway
[08:23] <Despair> bigbrother0074: `sudo apt-get install swf-player`
[08:23] <bigbrother0074> Despair:  ok, thanks
[08:24] <thoreauputic> cef_work: I tried the online eliza a few months ago and was quite amused/impressed
[08:24] <RuffianSoldier> hey all
[08:24] <cef_work> thoreauputic: unfortunately the author hasn't found the original source (in pascal) otherwise I'd have tried to munge it into irc.. could've been fun!
[08:24] <thoreauputic> cef_work: "she" was certainly better than the emacs shrink :)
[08:25] <cef_work> thoreauputic: hehe
[08:25] <thoreauputic> cef_work: although I like the way the emacs one tells you it will send you the bill when you sign off..
[08:27] <Burgundavia> cya all
[08:32] <HcE> hey, Debian Sid upgraded p firefox 0.10.1+1.PR-4 today
[08:34] <x43> i dont recall the setup asking me for a root password
[08:34] <bob2> x43: please read the faq
[08:34] <HcE> x43: correct, it is not set
[08:36] <jasund> I think the fact that root's password is not set is a great idea.  Anybody have problems with it?
[08:36] <bob2> people who don't read the FAQ have lors of problems
[08:36] <Zindar> I think that will become default in more distributions soon
[08:36] <tmartin> hi all
[08:37] <HcE> I tend to only use sudo
[08:37] <Zindar> it should be included in a startup-page ... it's a very common question
[08:37] <HcE> sudo -s when I feel like being god
[08:37] <bob2> Zindar: the installer prints it out!
[08:37] <tmartin> i just installed the essential build tools package for c/c++ development but it seems the libraries arent linked becuase im getting errors on cout when i already included iostream
[08:37] <Zindar> bob2: it does? it didn't in the preview I installed from
[08:37] <Zindar> cool
[08:38] <bob2> tmartin: you installed build-essential?
[08:38] <HcE> tmartin: "#include <iostream>" at top?
[08:38] <HcE> tmartin: and use cout as: "std::cout << "Hello world!" << std::endl;" ?
[08:39] <bob2> or add a "using namespace std;"
[08:39] <HcE> yep
[08:39] <bob2> but this has been standard for years now, your code must be ooooooooold ;)
[08:40] <bigbrother0074> back to the swf-player...i tested it at playmcd.com (it's the first place i could think of that used flash) and now, the flash screen comes up but i still am "unable to connet to the server, check your internet connection"  anybody else experience the same problem?
[08:40] <tmartin> i used the #include <iostream>
[08:40] <tmartin> and i tired std::cout
[08:40] <bob2> tmartin: paste your code to #flood
[08:40] <bob2> tmartin: or the error, even better
[08:45] <gruberman> good morning ;)
[08:46] <x43> where is the file located with the apt-get sources ?  tried an apt-get instal and it could not find the package but the website says it exists
[08:46] <stub> Where can I find console output from an application I launched through the GUI?
[08:47] <skyrider> stub: probably nowhere
[08:47] <bob2> x43: what file are you talking about?
[08:47] <bob2> stub: ~/.xsession-errors catches some of it
[08:47] <x43> apt-get nicotine
[08:47] <tmartin> how do you change ur hostname?
[08:47] <skyrider> edit /etc/hostname
[08:47] <bob2> x43: that doesn't do anything
[08:48] <bigbrother0074> x43: i would think to make sure the website you are looking for is in your list.sources file...
[08:48] <x43> apt-get install nicotine doesn't either
[08:48] <bob2> x43: "apt-get install nicotine" downloads and installs the package
[08:48] <bob2> x43: "dpkg -L nicotine" shows what files the package contains
[08:48] <x43> list.sources
[08:48] <x43> ok
[08:48] <x43> thank you
[08:49] <x43> i dont seem to have a list.sources
[08:49] <skyrider> sources.list
[08:49] <bob2> x43: /etc/apt/sources.list
[08:49] <bigbrother0074> right, my bad
[08:49] <thoreauputic> /etc/apt/sources.list
[08:49] <stub> bob2: Ta. 'icky core dump confirmed :-(
[08:49] <bob2> stub: eek :(
[08:49] <bigbrother0074> i'm a newb..i don't know much
[08:49] <HcE> firefox in safemode are firefox --safe-mode?
[08:50] <HcE> I screwed up a theme =(
[08:50] <bob2> it hase a safe mode?
[08:50] <HcE> I thought so?
[08:50] <HcE> or a option to disable all themes and extensionss
[08:50] <HcE> -s
[08:50] <HcE> s/a/an/
[08:51] <HcE> it got on Windows...
[08:51] <bob2> what do you use it for/
[08:51] <HcE> I now get: "Error launching browser window: no XBL binding for browser"
[08:52] <tmartin> is there a keyboard shortcut to launch a terminal?
[08:52] <skyrider> tmartin: no by default AFAIK
[08:52] <skyrider> but you can set it yourself
[08:52] <timothy> tmartin: if you're just looking for a command line, you could also switch to a VT
[08:53] <tmartin> sorry whats afaik?
[08:53] <tmartin> vt = vterm?
[08:53] <skyrider> As far as I know
[08:53] <timothy> tmartin: as far as I know
[08:53] <timothy> timothy: Yes. control-Alt-F[1-6] , at least for me, and that's pretty standard
[08:54] <timothy> Like, control-alt-f1, for instance
[08:54] <tmartin> where can i set keyboard shortcuts for gnome?
[08:54] <thoreauputic> alt-F7 to return to the GUI
[08:54] <timothy> thoreauputic: yes, thanks :)
[08:54] <timothy> Heh, I had forgotten to note that.
[08:54] <lhb> thats a good one to remember
[08:54] <thoreauputic> timothy: a common problem on first attempts :)
[08:55] <thoreauputic> timothy: where did my desktop go???
[08:55] <timothy> heh
[08:55] <bigbrother0074> thoreauputic:  i didn't see your message about returning to the gui until after i just now had to figure that out for myself.....hahaha
[08:55] <timothy> It's also a good primitive locking system :)
[08:55] <skyrider> tmartin: I don't remember now (I'm not at home)
[08:55] <thoreauputic> bigbrother0074: well done you :)
[08:55] <tmartin> np ill just tool around and see if i can find it
[08:56] <skyrider> tmartin: it's somewhere in user preferences in gnome menu
[08:56] <bigbrother0074> thoreauputic:  well, i'd heard them before, i just couldn't remember if that was actually one of them
[08:56] <timothy> I wish (wish, wish) that every app did it the way the GIMP does; open a menu, highlight an option, and click the keys you want to assign to it.
[08:56] <stevedeo> Anyone know what package holds `dos2unix'?
[08:57] <thoreauputic> bigbrother0074: actually ctrl-alt-F7 works too - just isn't necessary from a tty
[08:57] <crimsun> stevedeo: sysutils
[08:57] <stevedeo> Thanks
[08:57] <Despair> stevedeo: try fromdos/todos in sysutils
[08:58] <bob2> stevedeo: sysutiols
[08:58] <bob2> iios.
[08:59] <x43> how do i access my ntfs partitions on the same hd ?  i tried editing /etc/fstab the best i could.  /dev/hd1 and /dev/hd2 dont seem to exist ?
[08:59] <crimsun> hdX[12]  where X is a,b,c,...
[08:59] <bob2> x43: are they on hda?
[08:59] <bob2> (your first ide hard disk)
[08:59] <x43> yes bob
[09:00] <x43> they are ntfs partitions
[09:00] <x43> my linux install is also on hda
[09:00] <bob2> mount -t ntfs /dev/hda1 /mnt
[09:00] <x43> oh its been so long -- thank you
[09:07] <RuffianSoldier> apooopoooo!
[09:11] <udo> Hello, the evoltuion junk mail filter isnt working for me ;-(
[09:12] <udo> i trained it and have both checkboxes in the options marked
[09:12] <udo> but no mails are filtered
[09:12] <skyrider> On the page http://www.ubuntulinux.org/community/participate there are few words about "Package Selection Proposal process". Where can I read more about it? I'd like to suggest few packages for inclusion into main (and ship it on CD's) but don't know what is the best way to do it. :( Any ideas?
[09:12] <Treenaks> skyrider: like?
[09:12] <bob2> udo: did you install spamassassin?
[09:13] <udo> do i have to?
[09:13] <udo> no
[09:13] <udo> ups
[09:13] <tuxakka> k3b setup expects root passwd (kdesu) and doesn't seems to understand this sudo thing?
[09:13] <bob2> udo: yes.
[09:13] <skyrider> Treenaks: 'Downloader for X'
[09:13] <bob2> tuxakka: yes, k3b has weird bugs
[09:13] <Treenaks> skyrider: you mean the download manager in firefox..
[09:15] <skyrider> no
[09:15] <skyrider> I'll give your URL in few seconds
[09:15] <udo> why didnt evolution tell me that!!
[09:15] <bob2> udo: it does
[09:15] <udo> stupid evolution ( and stupid me )
[09:15] <bob2> Recommends: mozilla-psm (>= 2:1.7), gnome-pilot-conduits (>= 2.0.9), gnome-desktop-data, spamassassin
[09:15] <udo> no it didnt!
[09:15] <bob2> it should probably give an error when you try to train it, tho
[09:15] <skyrider> Treenaks: it is great download manager written in GTK+ 2, easy to use yet very powerfull!
[09:16] <skyrider> URL of it: http://www.krasu.ru/soft/chuchelo/
[09:16] <tuxakka> ok bob2, what about cdrecord should one has this (hdc=ide-scsi) on default ubuntu is without that and -scanbus don't find the device?
[09:16] <bob2> skyrider: what does it do that firefox doesn't?
[09:16] <bob2> tuxakka: don't use ide-scsi at all
[09:16] <bob2> tuxakka: cdrecord dev=/dev/hdc or whatever
[09:16] <bob2> mithrandir?
[09:16] <x43> how do i edit /etc/fstab so that a ntfs mounted partition can be read by any user ?  not just by root ?
[09:16] <tfheen> hiya bob2
[09:17] <skyrider> bob2: please read about it's features on official site (url above)
[09:17] <bob2> skyrider: I've used it myself
[09:17] <tuxakka> ok, thanks bob2
[09:17] <bob2> tfheen: I ended up getting the p150, very happy with it
[09:17] <tfheen> bob2: nice to hear :)
[09:18] <skyrider> bob2: so??? it's just great. I know many people who use it every day
[09:18] <tfheen> I'm going to pick up my 512MB card today, will be nice.
[09:19] <bob2> skyrider: but what features does it have that "normal" users want, that firefox doesn't provide?
[09:19] <x43> i am trying to access a directory that only root can see from mount a ntfs directory as a user
[09:19] <skyrider> bob2: Good support to resume broken downloads
[09:19] <bob2> skyrider: if firefox's resumption doesn't work, please file a bug
[09:19] <bob2> tfheen: hah, wow
[09:24] <bob2> tfheen: still only like ~200 photos at the highest res or so, I guess
[09:24] <skyrider> bob2: that's a know firefox bug it's already in bugzilla for a long time.
[09:24] <skyrider> bob2: it seems it will not fixed soon
[09:24] <tfheen> bob2: yeah, around that.. still enough for a few days of going crazy.
[09:24] <thoreauputic> skyrider: wget ;-)
[09:24] <skyrider> thoreauputic: :) Is Ubuntu oriented towards desktop users? Yes? Then d4x is just great for them, not wget.
[09:24] <thoreauputic> skyrider: I hope you noticed the ;-)
[09:24] <skyrider> d4x also support downloading in multiple streams (I know its evil but many users like it)
[09:24] <Treenaks> skyrider: it doesn't help transfer rates..
[09:24] <skyrider> thoreauputic: yes :)
[09:24] <skyrider> Treenaks: sometimes help
[09:24] <Treenaks> skyrider: no, it doesn't help..
[09:24] <GOwin> how do i rename ethernet devices? eth0 is being detected in ubuntu as eth2.
[09:24] <GOwin> i'm trying to configure firstarter but it insists that it cannot see eth2.
[09:24] <skyrider> And my favorite feature of d4x is support for recursive download from ftp AND HTTP
[09:25] <skyrider> Treenaks: if server admins limit transfer rate on per connection basis then using multiple connections you can greatly increase download speed
[09:25] <Treenaks> skyrider: does it obey robots.txt ?
[09:25] <Treenaks> skyrider: yes, but the server limits for a reason
[09:26] <skyrider> Treenaks: I don't know about robots.txt (I'm not a developer of dx4 :))
[09:27] <Treenaks> skyrider: still, it'd be better to use bittorrent for large files :)
[09:27] <skyrider> Treenaks: Of course you will
[09:28] <skyrider> But I am and many other people in third-world countries have very bad dialup connection (33600) so all those downloads are just pain in the ass. Bittorrent make thing only weorse.
[09:29] <skyrider> Treenaks: Please install d4x (it's in universe now AFAIK) and give it a try. I hope you'll like it.
[09:30] <Treenaks> skyrider: I know I won't like it, because I have wget
[09:30] <skyrider> Treenaks: "Unix syndrome" he-he ;)
[09:31] <Treenaks> skyrider: no, I just never left my terminal since DOS 2.1 ;)
[09:32] <skyrider> Treenaks: I'm a "terminal addict" too.
[09:32] <Treenaks> skyrider: http://osnews.com/story.php?news_id=6282
[09:32] <Treenaks> skyrider: I don't trust GUI apps with my downloads... they crash too often :)
[09:33] <skyrider> But I think that _many_ newbies will like d4x especially after all those windows downloaders like FleshGet, ReGet etc
[09:34] <skyrider> Treenaks: I didn't trust them too. But d4x works, just works. :)
[09:34] <cef_work> Treenaks: under KDe I don't mind kget
[09:34] <cef_work> Treenaks: and while i know that's kde, the princible is the same
[09:34] <Treenaks> cef_work: I have the same feeling in KDE as in Windows: that it can fall away from under my mouse cursor any second
[09:34] <skyrider> cef_work: In GNOME you don't have such feeling?
[09:35] <Treenaks> skyrider: no
[09:35] <cef_work> Treenaks: if it saves state regularly to disk, then it should be able to resume
[09:35] <Treenaks> skyrider: gnome feels solid
[09:35] <zverj> people, i need to compile my ubuntu for SMP, where can I get kernel source? apt-get shows latest is 2.6.7, however <IP_ADDRESS> binary is default one :/
[09:35] <skyrider> Treenaks: Great! d4x is the GNOME app (actually only GTK+). So it feels solid too. :)))
[09:36] <cef_work> zverj: there are smp binaries already pre-compiled, or should be.
[09:36] <Treenaks> I agree that the should be a "good" download manager, but not one that's so l33t that it can do multiple streams, etc,etc.
[09:36] <Treenaks> simple 'download this file', with pause/continue, and maybe a 'download tree' option.. that's it
[09:36] <cef_work> I don't like the moz download manager.. it's..  flaky
[09:37] <skyrider> cef_work: me too :(
[09:37] <cef_work> whereas kget works well for me, but of course, ymmv
[09:37] <zverj> cef_work, thanks. hope it will work
[09:37] <altan> well, here goes, I'll be back in a fresh install of Ubuntu in about an hour, hopefully
[09:38] <cef_work> but then again, that's when I use kde, which is when I use debian usually
[09:39] <skyrider> Every time I use moz/firefox downloader I hope my internet connection will not broke just now. If it brokes then it's very possible I'll need to download that file from the very beginning. :(
[09:39] <tmartin> hi there
[09:39] <anders> Just had some serious problems. On startup tmpfs would not mount, so lots of stuff like udev and networking did not work. Got a lot of error messages saying kernel not supporting foo and bar, so I figured something was wrong with linux-image or grub. So I booted with cd, chrooted removed and installed grub and linux-image. Debconf said /dev/fd didn't exist, so linux-image could not be configured. Damn, no kernel. I looked at /dev/fd, is a link to
[09:39] <anders> something on /proc, and proc was not mounted? Trying to mount proc, /proc is not a directory. rm proc, mkdir proc, mount /proc /proc -t proc, apt-get -f install linux-image-<IP_ADDRESS>-3-686. Things seems to work and me very happy. Anybody knows what happened to my proc?
[09:40] <verden01> hi
[09:40] <skyrider> I want to have good, robust featured GUI downloader on my desktop independently from browser (but tightly integrated with it)
[09:40] <tmartin> i have a windows partition that ubuntu seems not to recognize.  The grub booter doesnt list windows as an OS.  How to i enter windows in manually
[09:40] <Treenaks> tmartin: edit /boot/grub/menu.lst
[09:40] <Treenaks> tmartin: it has an example
[09:40] <verden01> hey does anyone know if the Ubuntu CD's have arrived in Australia yet?
[09:41] <cef_work> must admit that kget is quite feature-ful, but not over the top. ie: you can import and export file lists, tell it how long between list saving, auto-disconnect and auto-shutdown when finished, queue and timer support, and speed/connection limiting.
[09:42] <Treenaks> verden01: /topic
[09:42] <verden01> oh
[09:42] <cef_work> skyrider: I'll definitely have to look at d4x though.. cos it's one of the things I miss from kde
[09:42] <verden01> :-)
[09:42] <skyrider> kget depends on KDE. That's showstopper for me.
[09:42] <skyrider> cef_work: thanks.
[09:43] <x43> i'm sorry but i've read the man pages for fstab and for adduser and related links but i cannot figure out how to get a user to gain permission to a root mounted filesystem
[09:43] <cef_work> skyrider: well when running ubuntu, same for me
[09:43] <Treenaks> x43: man mount -- look for umask
[09:43] <Treenaks> x43: and uid, and gid
[09:44] <cef_work> x43: and if you're mounting it as root cos you can't mount it as a user, look at pmount
[09:44] <skyrider> cef_work: can you send me email with your opinion about d4x after that?
[09:44] <cef_work> skyrider: depends how much time i get. *grin*
[09:45] <anders> anybody knows what could have caused my problem? Kind of hard reporting a bug when I have no idea what happened
[09:45] <skyrider> cef_work: thanks anyway :)
[09:45] <cef_work> skyrider: so you wrote d4x? or is it just something you're interested in?
[09:46] <skyrider> cef_work: No. I'm just interested in and I know many people who interested in it too.
[09:47] <skyrider> cef_work: I use it about two years.
[09:47] <cef_work> skyrider: cool.. looking at the webpage now..
[09:47] <tuxakka> is it useful to add root to system?
[09:47] <bob2> anders: did you use a non-ubuntu kerenl to begin with?
[09:48] <anders> bob2: no, was ubuntu kernel I had apt-get installed
[09:49] <Treenaks> tuxakka: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/RootSudo
[09:49] <cef_work> skyrider: well just installed it on the dual opteron out of universe, so I'll have a look soon. *grin*
[09:53] <skyrider> Can I find logs of this channel somewhere in the net?
[09:53] <anders> bob2: same as I'm using now, the newest 686 version + restricted modules and nvidia, but someting happened to proc that seems to have gotten fixed by me doing "rm /proc, mkdir /proc" while booted and chrooted with the ubuntu-cd?
[09:53] <bob2> anders: /proc is empty until it's mountede
[09:54] <bob2> anders: and you can't delete files from it anyway
[09:54] <bob2> well, maybe you can, but it's not useful
[09:57] <anders> bob2: yes, but I think it was something wrong with it, when I did "ls -l /" it had ---------- permissions, now that it works it has drwxr-xr-x permissions, thats after me removing it and mkdir-ing it
[09:58] <amin2> guys, how to change the "copy" mode to "move" mode if you drag a file/folder to another partition?
[09:58] <bob2> anders: ah, hat could do it
[09:58] <bob2> anders: but that's very very weird
[09:58] <anders> bob2: hat?
[09:59] <bob2> that
[09:59] <skyrider> I have to leave irc now. cef_work, please mail me your opinion about d4x to alexey.molchanov | at | gmail dot com
[09:59] <altan> I tried to start the install, but it stops at 41% when it's scanning my partitions and loading the appropriate drivers for my drives, so I alt+f3'ed to the terminal that shows exactly what it's doing and it looks like it's screwing up over the fact that i don't have a floppy drive
[09:59] <anders> bob2: yes it's weird, could it be file system corruption?
[10:00] <bob2> anders: yeah
[10:00] <altan> i386 Install, 2 SATA disks (non-RAID), 2 disc drives
[10:01] <anders> bob2: I have ext3, never had any problems with it before..
[10:02] <altan> anyone? help on installing ubuntu with no FDD?
[10:02] <bob2> chill dude
[10:02] <bob2> lots of people have done that successfully
[10:02] <cef_work> altan: should work
[10:02] <Keybuk> Ubuntu doesn't have boot floppies, so shouldn't make a difference
[10:03] <Keybuk> certainly none of my machines have (working)? floppy drives
[10:03] <Keybuk> two laptops don't have one at all, desktop has a broken one
[10:03] <altan> it doesn't, I know, but it spazzes out while trying to load a floppy driver on my machine, which has no floppy drive
[10:03] <cef_work> might think it can see a floppy, but the driver is not detecting it and dying for some reason
[10:04] <altan> i think i have floppy support disabled in the bios, maybe it doesn't recognize that option, perhaps i should enable it?
[10:04] <cef_work> altan: well if you have no luck otherwise, give it a shot. it might be confusing the installer.. of course, you should be able to turn it back off afterwards
[10:04] <altan> hmm, okay
[10:05] <amin2> guys, how to change the "copy" mode to "move" mode if you drag a file/folder to another partition?
[10:05] <Treenaks> amin2: using shift or ctrl or alt I guess
[10:05] <amin2> ok, i'll try first...
[10:05] <bob2> or right-click -> copy
[10:06] <Treenaks> amin2: it'll change the mouse cursor ("+" is copy, "nothing" is move, "?" is ask)
[10:09] <amin2> Treenaks: shift key is the one..
[10:09] <anders> I have a little sound problem with my soundblaster extigy, aumix shows pcm and pcm2 which I have set to 100%, alsamixer does not find any soundcard, and the sound is to low(sounds like 60%)
[10:10] <anders> /etc/init.d/alsa start, says alsactl: load_state:1134: No soundcards found...
[10:10] <bob2> do you need to use that in ubuntu?
[10:10] <bob2> do you have alsa drivers loaded?
[10:12] <anders> bob2: I don't need alsa, but I would like to try if I could get better sound volume with it. I thought the alsa init script loaded the drivers
[10:13] <bob2> anders: no, I meant the init script
[10:14] <anders> bob2: yes the init script will not load, giving error message not finding soundcard
[10:14] <amin2> I have an error during booting process: usb usb4: string descriptor 0 read error: -19
[10:14] <amin2> usb usb4: string descriptor 0 read error: -19
[10:14] <amin2> usb usb4: string descriptor 0 read error: -19
[10:14] <amin2> usb usb4: string descriptor 0 read error: -19
[10:14] <amin2> usb usb4: string descriptor 0 read error: -19
[10:14] <amin2> usb usb4: string descriptor 0 read error: -19. Btw, i don't have usb4
[10:14] <bob2> anders: ignore the init script
[10:14] <bob2> anders: are the alsa modules loaded?
[10:15] <anders> bob2: what's the name of them?
[10:15] <bob2> anders: snd_
[10:15] <anders> lsmod | grep snd
[10:16] <anders> snd_usb_audio          70880  0
[10:16] <anders> snd_rawmidi            24704  1 snd_usb_audio
[10:16] <anders> snd_seq_device          8040  1 snd_rawmidi
[10:16] <anders> snd_pcm_oss            52968  0
[10:16] <anders> snd_mixer_oss          19456  1 snd_pcm_oss
[10:16] <anders> snd_pcm                95140  2 snd_usb_audio,snd_pcm_oss
[10:16] <anders> snd_page_alloc         11432  1 snd_pcm
[10:16] <anders> snd_timer              24900  1 snd_pcm
[10:16] <anders> snd                    55300  7 snd_usb_audio,snd_rawmidi,snd_seq_device,snd_pcm_oss,snd_mixer_oss,snd_pcm,snd_timer
[10:16] <anders> soundcore              10112  4 snd,audio
[10:16] <anders> usbcore               115684  5 snd_usb_audio,audio,uhci_hcd
[10:17] <bob2> erm, you don't need to show me
[10:17] <bob2> you have a usb audio device?
[10:17] <anders> bob2: yes it's an soundblaster extigy
[10:18] <bob2> ouch
[10:18] <bob2> does linux support that?
[10:18] <fabbione> yes it does
[10:18] <Treenaks> Ferry: #ubuntu-nl is the Dutch-language support channel, if you like
[10:18] <fabbione> i am using it :)
[10:19] <anders> bob2: kind of, I have sound, but very low..
[10:19] <fabbione> oh the usb one
[10:19] <fabbione> sorry
[10:21] <amin2> Even during the boot I have an error on usb checking
[10:22] <amin2> usb usb4: string descriptor 0 read error: -19
[10:23] <Treenaks> amin2: no IRQ problems?
[10:24] <amin2> nope
[10:24] <amin2> I don't have usb4, i only have 3 usb
[10:24] <Treenaks> amin2: it's about the USB controllers...
[10:24] <Treenaks> amin2: there can be more controllers than ports
[10:25] <amin2> do you know to delete the "more controllers"
[10:26] <Treenaks> not
[10:40] <MeAndU> I am having a problem with a Yukon Gigabit ethernet card, the device is listed in the device manager but is not coming up, i am using DHCP
[10:40] <bob2> MeAndU: does "dmesg | grep eth0" know about it?
[10:40] <MeAndU> bob2, Yes saying network connection up using port A
[10:41] <bob2> MeAndU: how about "dhclient eth0", does that get you an ip?
[10:44] <MeAndU> bob2, sit0: unknown hardware address type 776 then kept dhcp discover until no DHCPOFFERS received
[10:45] <bob2> are yo usure your dhcp server is working?
[10:45] <jono> hi all
[10:45] <jono> when I try to use the GNOME music player, it says the ALSA device is being used by another program, how can I find out which program is using it?
[10:46] <joem> lsof /dev/snd/* might work
[10:47] <jono> cheers
[10:47] <Pizbit> Probably esd
[10:47] <Dashiva> jono, what kind of card is it
[10:47] <jono> Dashiva, Delta 44
[10:48] <jono> its only GNOME Music Player that does it
[10:48] <Dashiva> yeah
[10:48] <Dashiva> rhythymbox
[10:48] <Dashiva> try opening synaptic
[10:48] <Dashiva> well
[10:48] <schweeb> set alsa to use esd
[10:48] <Dashiva> crap that's in debian
[10:48] <Dashiva> yeah
[10:48] <MeAndU> bob2, NO IP sit0: unknown hardware address type 776 then kept dhcp discover until no DHCPOFFERS received
[10:49] <schweeb> sit0 is for ipv6, MeAndU
[10:51] <jono> cheers, I will check into it a bit later
[10:52] <joem> jono, you can run gstreamer-properties and set the audio sink to esd, then all gstreamer apps will use esd
[10:52] <gruberman> jono: Is there a driver for that card in linux?
[10:53] <jono> gruberman, yeah, I am using it now
[10:53] <jono> joem, cool, but will apps that still need alsa still work?
[10:53] <Dashiva> yeah
[10:53] <gruberman> jono: Ok, nice to have support for other cards then gaming cards
[10:54] <jono> gruberman, yeah, it seems pretty good support :)
[10:54] <jono> I ordered doom III and I will need to have ESD emulation working when it arrives
[10:55] <gruberman> :)
[10:55] <Treenaks> jono: ESD emulation??
[10:55] <bob2> MeAndU: are you sure you have a working dhcp server?
[10:55] <jono> Treenaks, yeah, isnt that where ALSA can act as ESD?
[10:55] <jono> oh no, maybe it was OSS emulation hehe
[10:56] <joem> yea that is oss emulation
[10:56] <x43> where do you make those settings ?
[10:56] <jono> d'oh!
[10:57] <x43> alsa to oss emulation for mp3's how ?
[10:57] <Treenaks> x43: eh?
[10:57] <x43> i am trying to get the native media player to work
[10:57] <Treenaks> x43: "native media player"?
[10:57] <x43> "music player"
[10:58] <x43> i have alsa sound
[10:58] <Treenaks> x43: look at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/RestrictedFormats
[11:10] <gruberman> if I download the java sdk from sun, is it ok to put it in /usr/local/jdk5?
[11:11] <bob2> yes
[11:11] <gruberman> thx. bob2 to the rescue again ;)
[11:11] <bob2> heh
[11:13] <gruberman> maybe I should read abit about dirs in linux
[11:16] <altan> that was a really fast setup, I'm impressed
[11:17] <gruberman> altan: :)
[11:17] <altan> is there a way I can manually enter my monitor h/v scan rates from the GUI or will I have to use xf86config?
[11:17] <Mithrandir> altan: dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xfree86, iirc
[11:17] <gruberman> you can do that from the gui if im not mistaken
[11:19] <tmartin> good morning :)
[11:19] <tmartin> does anyone know how to make emacs color code certain statements in c/c++?  thx
[11:19] <jamesh> gruberman: the GUI resolution switcher uses the RANDR protocol, so if your X server config is wrong (doesn't include some modes the monitor can do, or the frequecies are wrong), it won't help.
[11:20] <jamesh> tmartin: M-x font-lock-mode ?
[11:20] <altan> isn't there a config file I can edit somewherE?
[11:20] <altan> I seem to remember doing it on Gentoo a few times, which directory is it in again?
[11:20] <tmartin> lemme try that jamesh
[11:20] <Pizbit> altan: You'll have to edit /etc/X11/XF86Config-4
[11:20] <Pizbit> It's fairly obvious where to edit.
[11:20] <jamesh> altan: the command Mithrandir gave should do what you want.
[11:21] <Pizbit> Pah, just edit the file, it's quicker and simpler:)
[11:21] <altan> yeah, that's what I want to do
[11:21] <altan> I just want to change one setting, I'm afraid I'll break it if I change the wrong part
[11:22] <Pizbit> altan: Nah, open the file and you'll see
[11:22] <gruberman> jamesh: k, maybe you can answer this too :) at login I have 1280x768(my monitor can olny do 65hz in that res.) How do I change that to 1024x768?
[11:22] <Dashiva> there's a screen rez switcher under computer->system configuration in the menu
[11:22] <jamesh> gruberman: the resolution control panel should let you change the setting for after login
[11:22] <altan> I hope the root password is in the FAQ, because the install didn't ask me for a root password
[11:22] <Pizbit> altan: sudo
[11:23] <jamesh> gruberman: "sudo dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xfree86" should let you change the default mode though.
[11:23] <jamesh> (which is used on the login screen)
[11:23] <Pizbit> Yikes
[11:23] <Treenaks> altan: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/RootSudo
[11:23] <Pizbit> Just make 1024x768 the first resolution for the colour depth you're using in /etc/X11/XF86Config-4
[11:24] <binary_10> can someone help? im tring to install gdesklets.. but when i run ./configure i get an error that XML:Parser perl module is required. how can i install this?
[11:25] <gruberman> thx jamesh
[11:25] <DashZzZ> because it's gota  gui dammit
[11:25] <DashZzZ> or
[11:25] <Treenaks> Pizbit: because if you use dpkg-reconfigure, the file can be updated if you upgrade X
[11:25] <DashZzZ> a curses based quasi gui
[11:25] <Treenaks> Pizbit: otherwise you'll have to do that yourself
[11:26] <Pizbit> DashZzZ: Reconfiguring the package involves knowledge of the rest of your setup that was autodetected doesn't it?:)
[11:26] <DashZzZ> yeah
[11:26] <DashZzZ> i dunno
[11:26] <jamesh> Pizbit: the defaults during the reconfigure should be your current settings though.
[11:26] <Pizbit> So, re-configure a whole package or change 8 or so characters in a file, hrm!
[11:26] <altan> for some reason, Firefox isn't connecting to any web site
[11:26] <DashZzZ> dpkg-reconfigure still messes up some things, like if you need to load modules
[11:27] <DashZzZ> or in my case where i have dual head
[11:27] <DashZzZ> which bloody nvidia still hasn't made agui for :/
[11:28] <altan> is there anything I have to do to "activate" Firefox?
[11:28] <Pizbit> daniels: nvidia-settings something else eh?
[11:28] <Treenaks> altan: firefox should just work..
[11:28] <altan> nm, started to worjk
[11:28] <DashZzZ> nah it won't help you setup dual head
[11:28] <mctavish> While you guys are on the subject, my videocard was originally misdetected (known bug according to bugzilla).
[11:28] <DashZzZ> still needs to be by hand
[11:28] <Pizbit> er, DashZzZ even heh
[11:29] <mctavish> ... I've been using the vesa driver, but I have a radeon 9600xt. Should i run this package reconfiguration command?
[11:29] <altan> it's working, but it's inexplicably slow at loading
[11:29] <altan> where can I check my connection speed? I'm on dialup
[11:29] <DashZzZ> unfortunately nvidia-settings doesn't do a whole lot,
[11:29] <DashZzZ> though it will in the future i understand
[11:30] <DashZzZ> matrox powerdesk was it
[11:31] <DashZzZ> and especially because it's -- <--- this difficult to parse a XF86Config file i can't see why not
[11:32] <altan> hmm, the scan rates listed online are the same as in the config file, yet I still don't get 100Hz for 1280x1024. Again, on Windows, I had to either load Philips's own drivers or uncheck "Show only refresh rates that my monitor can show" to get 100Hz
[11:32] <binary_10> does anyone know the package name of the xml parser?
[11:32] <altan> so how else can I force 100Hz?
[11:32] <DashZzZ> it could be a graphics card driver
[11:32] <altan> nah, it's not the driver
[11:33] <DashZzZ> then you'd probably have to bump the horizrefresh to something
[11:33] <altan> I used 3 different cards with this monitor, they all gave that until I loaded the Philips monitor driver
[11:33] <tmartin> how do i put M-x font-lock-mode in a .emacs file
[11:33] <tmartin> whats teh setq command
[11:33] <altan> see, there's got to be a way to calculate that
[11:33] <altan> just need to know how
[11:33] <DashZzZ> google?
[11:33] <DashZzZ> i know there's a calculation method
[11:33] <tmartin> lisp doesnt like "setq(font-lock-mode 0)"
[11:34] <altan> brb
[11:35] <DashZzZ> wow
[11:35] <DashZzZ> there's a python rhythmbox to xchat script
[11:35] <DashZzZ> and it works
[11:36] <Pizbit> heh
[11:36] <Pizbit> *g* /exec -o dcop amarok player nowPlaying
[11:37] <DashZzZ> looks more complicated than that
[11:37] <DashZzZ> pipes it through gnome-python or something
[11:44] <altan> what's the parameter to have a terminal program run in the background, like wvdial?
[11:44] <sparkes> altan, & at the end
[11:46] <altan> thanks
[11:46] <altan> do I upgrade my stuff with Synaptic?
[11:46] <altan> *update
[11:46] <stvn> altan: press the reload button
[11:47] <stvn> altan: than, mark upgrades and apply
[11:47] <phill> in irssi, how do i switch to conversations > 10
[11:47] <Pizbit> phill: Does ctrl+pgup/pgdown work? Just a guess heh
[11:47] <altan> does hitting Smart Upgrade select everything I need or more than I need? lots of packages here
[11:47] <stvn> phill: /window #
[11:48] <stvn> altan: smart upgrade upgrades everything you have and the packages you need with that upgrade, nothing more, nothing less
[11:48] <Zindar> altan: use normal update
[11:48] <Zindar> upgrade
[11:48] <Zindar> sorry
[11:48] <Zindar> ahh
[11:48] <stvn> Zindar: smart-update is better
[11:49] <Zindar> stvn: not unless you are changing between distributions/releases
[11:49] <phill> stvn thanks
[11:49] <altan> ack, closed Xchat by accident
[11:50] <stvn> Zindar: true, although sometimes there are update that require a smart-upgrade within a release, but I guess that won't happen in ubuntu anyway
[11:50] <smo> any pointers to installing java? (for the mozilla plugin)
[11:50] <stvn> smo: checked the wiki?
[11:50] <Zindar> stvn: shouldn't now since warty is stable... will happen on hoary  :)
[11:51] <stvn> smo: http://wiki.ubuntulinux.org/RestrictedFormats
[11:51] <smo> heh, I hadn't actually .. I'd seen a link bouncing around that was off-site, but couldn't recall it .. I'll start with the wiki tho
[11:51] <stvn> Zindar: indeed
[11:51] <smo> stvn: Thanks
[11:51] <stvn> Zindar: but if someone has a RC install, it's wiser to use smart-upgrade, and since there were apprently a lot of packages that wanted to be upgraded I guess it was an RC
[11:53] <altan> hmm, in Synaptic it says I have Firefox 1PR, but Firefox itself says 0.9.3 in "About Firefox"
[11:54] <Zindar> altan: check the full version number in synaptic
[11:54] <stvn> altan: check the version, it's something complicated here: 0.99+1.0PR+revertedto0.9.3
[11:54] <Zindar> it should say 0.99+1.0PR1+revertedto0.9.3-0ubuntu3
[11:54] <Zindar> ohh.. that's a version number :)
[11:54] <stvn> altan: I guess it means that you have 09.3 with quite some features from .99 and 1
[11:56] <malte> why didn't ubuntu include 1.0pr instead?
[11:56] <bob2> too buggy
[11:56] <stvn> it was found to buggy
[11:56] <Pizbit> malte: *some* found it too buggy:)
[11:56] <malte> i think it works like a charm :)
[11:56] <Pizbit> Me too
[11:57] <Pizbit> RC1 is much improved though
[11:57] <Mithrandir> we'll have 1.0 for Hoary, then, I guess. :)
[11:58] <Treenaks> Mithrandir: or an even newer version, maybe
[11:59] <malte> i think ubuntu should've been based on sid instead of sarge
[11:59] <Mithrandir> Treenaks: possibly, yes.
[11:59] <Mithrandir> malte: it is.
[11:59] <malte> oh? i thought it was based on sarge
[11:59] <malte> bob2 said it was
[11:59] <malte> iirc :)
[11:59] <bob2> it was based on sid
[11:59] <Mithrandir> warty's based on a late june sid snapshot with updates and fixes pulled in.
[12:00] <malte> oh well
[12:01] <aLi`> I get one "Fatal Error" on booting up having to do with "inserting hw_random..."
[12:01] <Treenaks> aLi`: it looks worse than it is
[12:02] <aLi`> i dont want it :)
[12:05] <ondrej> I just upgraded one of our woody+backports to ubuntu and I encountered error when installing linux-686 image.  It bails off on mkinitrd: RAID support requires raidtools2.  But I have raidtools2 installed.
[12:08] <ondrej> and I have raidtools2 installed
[12:13] <mjr> hm, ifplugd really wants to be in main
[12:16] <Treenaks> mjr: it needs fixing before that
[12:16] <Treenaks> mjr: (i.e. cooperation with hotplug/udev)
[12:17] <mjr> ok
[12:18] <Treenaks> mjr: it brings up interfaces etc, once it detects them.. that includes just after hotplug loads the module and brings up the interface
[12:18] <Treenaks> mjr: also, it brings down an interface when you unplug the cable -- breaking all open TCP connections, which is Evil and Wrong(tm)
[12:21] <jono> where is the script that will create /dev/video* devices? as in, a MAKEDEV script or something for V4L devices
[12:22] <Treenaks> jono: just load the drivers
[12:22] <Treenaks> jono: udev will create the devices for you
[12:22] <jono> is devfs not used any more?
[12:22] <Treenaks> no, udev replaces devfs
[12:22] <jono> I thought it was deprecated
[12:22] <jono> has the transition been made now in the kernel?
[12:23] <Treenaks> well, you can use devfs, but that's discouraged and ubuntu uses udev
[12:23] <jono> but does a stock kernel from kernel.org use udev by default?
[12:23] <Treenaks> udev is a userspace thing
[12:23] <jono> how much take up of udev is there?
[12:24] <Treenaks> you need to install it separately.. 2.6 kernels support it (it works with sysfs)
[12:24] <jono> outside of ubuntu, I mean
[12:24] <Treenaks> most distributions have it, or will use it in the next version
[12:24] <JoakimZiegler> jono: FC3 will use it, Novell will use it...
[12:24] <jono> right, so I can discourage devfs in my writing
[12:24] <Treenaks> jono: pretty much, yes
[12:25] <jono> thanks Treenaks :)
[12:25] <Treenaks> jono: http://www.reactivated.net/udevrules.php
[12:25] <jono> Treenaks, thanks
[12:25] <Treenaks> jono: it explains udev basics as well
[12:26] <jono> cool
[12:31] <Kamion> jono: note, FWIW, that the installer still uses devfs.
[12:31] <jono> Kamion, oh really? thats interesting, why is that?
[12:32] <Kamion> jono: historical
[12:33] <Kamion> jono: that part of the installer was written before devfs was deprecated, and it's a fairly big upheaval to shift
[12:34] <jono> right
[12:35] <jono> Kamion, what would I need to do to persuade you guys to include Blender as a program in main?
[12:36] <gruberman> Or cakewalk sonar 4? :)
[12:36] <__daniel> hai
[12:36] <jdub> jono: why do you need it in main?
[12:37] <MeAndU> bob2, I still have the same problem with my eth0, dhclient etho kept DHCPDISCOVER then no DHCPOFFERS received. What could be the problme
[12:39] <vrln> MeAndU: your internet connection is propably having trouble... I get those errors sometimes when my isp isn't working
[12:39] <jono> jdub, I was just curious which apps go into main and what the criteria is - universe is only synced with unstable occassionally isnt it?
[12:39] <MeAndU> vrln, I have another ubuntu pc in same network working well
[12:39] <jdub> jono: the upstream version freeze applies to the entire distribution at the same time
[12:40] <MeAndU> vrln, in fact its the one i am chatting with
[12:40] <jdub> jono: throughout the non-frozen months of hoary, it'll be synced daily. then case-by-case sync requests for bugfixes after that.
[12:40] <vrln> hm, then I have no idea :/
[12:40] <jdub> jono: so there's no update regularity benefit
[12:40] <jdub> jono: none of us have the expertise required to *support* blender
[12:41] <jdub> jono: but people who do could make it nice in universe
[12:41] <jono> jdub, right - so is the syncing occuring at the moment now warty is out?
[12:41] <JoakimZiegler> jdub: Hey, what's up?
[12:41] <jdub> jono: yes, look at the hoary Packages.gz
[12:41] <jdub> oh, hi JoakimZiegler
[12:41] <Pizbit> Hrm, have any emails arrived on the ubuntu-users list in the past few minutes from pizbit@gmail? It seems to be hanging on sending currently:(
[12:41] <jono> jdub, ok cool, thanks for explaining this to me :)
[12:42] <JoakimZiegler> jdub: I was wondering what an aging web- and Python-hacker could do to possibly help Ubuntu.
[12:42] <jdub> JoakimZiegler: it's very open-ended atm :-)
[12:44] <JoakimZiegler> jdub: Just liking the project a lot, figured there might be something to do.
[12:46] <MeAndU> vrln, You could be right, i will check the cable and switch
[12:59] <ubiq> hy guys
[12:59] <lhb> hi
[01:00] <ubiq> i hav a dual boot system, and yesterday my xp crashed to systematically booting into blue screen:) i reinstalled, but it replaced my mbr. how can i restore the grub to  the mbr?
[01:03] <kensai> my network was automagically detected now I don't know how to use a printer that is in the other computer of my network
[01:04] <blackb0x> u could boot via cd and obtain a shell to restore it
[01:04] <ubiq> i figured that out, yet i don't know the way to restoer the grub through a shell
[01:05] <blackb0x> try- info grub-install
[01:06] <ubiq> blackbox, ok, thanks:)
[01:12] <gruberman> brb!
[01:26] <jesper> Hi, Any Danes around?
[01:27] <gruberman> <- swedish ;)
[01:27] <blackb0x> -- industri@L ScRiPt -- by -- industri@L cReW --
[01:28] <daniels> good god that was ugly
[01:29] <jesper> gruberman, close..
[01:30] <gruberman> :)
[01:30] <jesper> gruberman, how is the Swedish support in Ubuntu at the moment?
[01:31] <gruberman> jesper: really good
[01:31] <jesper> gruberman: OpenOffice too? firefox?
[01:31] <stvn> jesper: I think the danish support in ubuntu will be more or less similar as it in debian
[01:32] <gruberman> jesper: yep. haven't done much in OO though
[01:32] <jesper> stvn, it looked quite good, but it didn't seem to install OOo in Danish..
[01:33] <jesper> stvn, my Debian does..
[01:33] <stvn> jesper: yeah, both ff and OO.o have a different system of internationalisation and is not yet supported
[01:33] <stvn> jesper: so you need to chose the language yourself
[01:34] <jesper> stvn, Ok.. it's not my own box, I installed Ubuntu for one at an installparty the day before yesterday...
[01:35] <jesper> stvn, my own box will come one of the following days.. I think :-)
[01:35] <stvn> jesper: just search for -da in synaptic and you get the correct language packages
[01:35] <jesper> stvn, Ok..
[01:36] <gruberman> lol, firefox is in english. didn't notice
[01:36] <jesper> stvn: Is there a thing like http://packages.debian.org/ for ubuntu?
[01:36] <stvn> jesper: don't know really
[01:36] <stvn> hm there's no firefox-da in ubuntu
[01:38] <jesper> stvn: I can see that it's not in Debian(testing) either.. .well thanks.
[01:39] <stvn> jesper: you can search in apt-get.org for a deb with firefox-da, but it'll prolly conflict with ubuntu's version of ff though
[01:42] <gruberman> Jesper: I found a swedish language pack on the swedish mozilla site. Is there a danish mozilla site?
[01:44] <jesper> gruberman: i just found one on google..
[01:44] <gruberman> jesper: here's the link if you wnat to install it http://www.greyparrots.tuknet.dk/firefox/pack.html
[01:44] <gruberman> :)
[01:45] <jesper> gruberman: I think I'm blind,... i cannot see whom to contact..
[01:46] <jesper> gruberman, We really need to get it into the Mozilla-repo, so it'll be available to all distributions.
[01:46] <jesper> gruberman, We is probably equal to Danes in this sentence :-)
[01:46] <BugS> i want to install ubuntu at home, but i dont have an internet connection... where can i get some packages (like xmms-mp3, mplayer etc) so i can install them at home?
[01:46] <gruberman> well, it's quite easy to do manually. just press the link and - hey presto
[01:47] <BugS> is there some official repository for non-free packages?
[01:47] <Treenaks> multiverse
[01:47] <BugS> url?
[01:48] <jesper> gruberman, yea but communicating that to anyone using a Linux distribution in Danish is quite a lot harder.
[01:48] <Treenaks> BugS: just like the ones you already have in sources.list, just add the word 'multiverse' everywhere you see 'universe'
[01:48] <gruberman> jesper: :/
[01:49] <stvn> jesper: hoary is supposed to have support for locales for OO.o en ff
[01:49] <gruberman> I must really stop abusing smilies
[01:50] <jesper> stvn: Ok..
[01:51] <jesper> Thanks.. both of you.
[01:52] <BugS> Treenaks: can you give me the addresses so i can download the packages before i start the installation
[01:53] <Treenaks> BugS: you don't need that, you can use apt
[01:53] <Treenaks> BugS: and you can see the URLs in sources.list
[01:54] <BugS> Treenaks: i dont have ubuntu installed yet, so i cant see the sources. and i cant use apt cause like i said, i dont have internet at home
[01:54] <delire> ok i've read a trillion fantastic reviews on ubuntu and have one more question before i install it on he laptop in front of me. i'm a game developer, having developed on debian unstable system for several years. what's the likelihood i'll find important and even obscure libraries and documentation missing from the ubuntu package repositories?
[01:54] <stvn> delire: a bit bigger than with debian
[01:54] <delire> stvn: are you sure? why?
[01:55] <delire> what about with multiverse?
[01:55] <Treenaks> BugS: archive.ubuntu.com
[01:55] <stvn> delire: ah, sorry misunderstood it, it's a bit smaller
[01:56] <delire> so you're saying there ar more of less development packages and docs in ubuntu?
[01:56] <stvn> delire: debian will have slightly more than ubuntu I think, but if you know what you're doing you can install debian's debs
[01:56] <delire> isn't that just a case of dpkg -i
[01:56] <stvn> delire: standard stuff the same, obscure stuff less in ubuntu
[01:56] <Treenaks> delire: not more or less, there are.
[01:56] <Treenaks> delire: apt-get install
[01:57] <delire> Treenaks: but i'm told that it's unwise to add debian package repo's to ubuntu sources.list
[01:57] <Treenaks> delire: it is
[01:57] <Treenaks> delire: that doesn't mean the brave (or foolish..) won't try
[01:58] <stvn> delire: it's unwise, not impossible, so when you know what you're doing it's possible
[01:58] <delire> you're both talking about dependency conflicts aren't you
[01:58] <stvn> yep
[02:01] <delire> this said, all the *existing* Ubuntu devel packages have documentation? or is this sacrificed in the interests of a desktop specific distro.
[02:01] <altan> hi, I tried to follow http://www.linuxforum.com/tutcomments/1/66.php to mount my NTFS drive, but it's not working
[02:02] <Treenaks> delire: they have all the docs.. just like debian
[02:02] <delire> cool cool
[02:02] <altan> says  wrong fs type, bad option, bad superblock on /dev/sda2, or too many mounted file systems (aren't you trying to mount an extended partition, instead of some logical partition inside?)
[02:03] <dkam> You're trying to mount nfs from a actual disk?
[02:03] <altan> ntfs
[02:03] <altan> from an actual disk, yes
[02:03] <dkam> my bad. I read nfs
[02:03] <delire> as a favour could someone impress me with the versions of 'blender' and 'pd'? 'apt-cache show blender'
[02:04] <dkam> altan, does "mount" report /dev/sda2 as already mounted?
[02:04] <stvn> altan: tried /dev/sda5 instead of /dev/sda2 if it's an extended partition it could very well be /sda5
[02:04] <delire> altan: and /etc/fstab has the correct entry?
[02:05] <stvn> delire: Filename: pool/universe/b/blender/blender_2.33a-1_i386.deb
[02:05] <delire> stvn: good thanks.. and 'pd'?
[02:05] <stvn> none
[02:06] <stvn> delire: as a side note, what kind of gamedev do you do?
[02:06] <delire> stvn: ok and 'python2.3-opengl'?
[02:06] <stvn> Filename: pool/main/p/pyopengl/python2.3-opengl_<IP_ADDRESS>-4ubuntu2_i386.deb
[02:06] <tseng> delire: you could go look at the mirro yourself..
[02:06] <tseng> +r
[02:06] <delire> tseng: excellent. that is very good
[02:06] <tseng> http://security.ubuntu.com/ubuntu
[02:07] <stvn> tseng: do you know if there's a equivalent of packages.debian.org for ubuntu?
[02:07] <tseng> http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu
[02:07] <altan> AHAHA, I'm such a moron
[02:07] <delire> stvn: i teach game development and work contractually for research labs exploring future directions in game technology, particularly augmented reality games and sound based games
[02:07] <tseng> stvn: not that im aware of, no
[02:07] <altan> I saw W95 LBA and assumed it was my NTFS thing and didn't bother to read the rest
[02:07] <stvn> delire: where?
[02:07] <delire> tseng: again, excellent
[02:07] <altan> and I put /dev/sda2 instead of sdb1
[02:08] <delire> stvn: i travel almost continuously, but teach in denmark, spain, germany, sweden
[02:08] <BeTa> salut, hi ;c)
[02:08] <stvn> hm interesting
[02:08] <BeTa> I get some random system crashes
[02:08] <delire> stvn: for the last two months i have been based in spain
[02:09] <stvn> nice
[02:09] <BeTa> it seems to be at the kernel size (cause the box doesn't respond anymore to icmp requests for example)
[02:09] <GotD0t-sleep> haha... guess what the word of the day is on dictionary.com
[02:09] <stvn> delire: you got a website with examples?
[02:09] <delire> stvn: my 'very experimental' game development site can be found at http://selectparks.net
[02:09] <BeTa> I've heard about X crashes on PPC archs, do you have any thing about that (my box is a PowerBook G4 w/ the last Radeon video card)
[02:09] <cef> in the meantime, this might help people till something like packages.debian.org comes along for ubuntu: http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=ubuntu
[02:10] <delire> stvn: and a project i am working on now is http://fijuu.com <-- a sound based game
[02:10] <jdb1968> hi all, i'd really like to install ubuntu but it seems that the install CD requires 2.88 emulation in BIOS, which mine doesn't have
[02:12] <jdb1968> can i boot from floppy and do a network install?
[02:13] <stvn> delire: interesting, although i'm not into sound myself
[02:13] <stvn> jdb1968: there's no floppy install for ubuntu
[02:14] <delire> stvn: the latter project is very experimental really. only a few months old.
[02:14] <jdb1968> that sux
[02:15] <delire> one other thing. is there spanish language and keymapping support in ubuntu warty by default?
[02:16] <stvn> jdb1968: if you really need floppies you can use the debian ones and upgrade to ubuntu
[02:16] <altan> I'm getting an error message that my PnP BIOS option might screw things up when I boot ubuntu, is that something I should worry about? I enabled and disabled PnP in the BIOS, but it still gives me the message
[02:16] <stvn> delire: just like debian
[02:16] <Kamion> BeTa: no problems on my 15" PowerBook G4
[02:16] <jdb1968> well, i already am running MEPIS... just that my buddy tells me that ubuntu is the best distro he's used to date and i'm envious
[02:17] <delire> stvn: cool, my girlfriend is happy about that ;)
[02:17] <stvn> :)
[02:17] <Kamion> we'll be supporting floppy installs for the next release; we just didn't have time to test them properly for this one
[02:18] <stvn> jdb1968: there's a page on the wiki how to install ubuntu from knoppix, so if knoppix works for you, you could try that as installer
[02:18] <jdb1968> Kamion: cool
[02:18] <jdb1968> stvn: Knoppix doesn't work either :-(
[02:19] <jdb1968> I obviously need new h/w, but can't afford it right now
[02:19] <jdb1968> thx stvn, thx Kamion
[02:19] <stvn> jdb1968: if you want it now, you can use debian floppy install and migrate to ubuntu, there's a page howto move from woody to ubuntu
[02:20] <jdub> ubuntu on slashdot again!
[02:21] <Treenaks> jdub: more press = good, right?
[02:21] <delire> jesus jdub.. you too i remember from #debian ;)
[02:21] <jdub> Treenaks: not always the case with slashdot, but yeah ;)
[02:22] <GotD0t> haha
[02:22] <altan> why does About Firefox give 9.3 but Synaptic and Check For Updates (in Firefox) give 1PR?
[02:22] <jdub> altan: because it was forcefully downgraded
[02:22] <jdub> altan: see the full package version ;)
[02:22] <altan> I don't get it?
[02:22] <altan> I'm not quite sure what you mean
[02:23] <netventurer> 1.0PR has a lot of bugs and security issues
[02:23] <altan> ah
[02:23] <jdub> altan: we were shipping 1.0PR1, but had to downgrade
[02:23] <netventurer> though 1.0PR was available for sometime, it was replaced with 9.3+Ubuntu patches
[02:23] <altan> aha.
[02:23] <jdub> so the package version is 0.99+1.0PR.1+revertedto0.9.3-0ubuntu3 ;)
[02:23] <GotD0t> which is quite ironic because most people switched to firefox from IE when the PR1 was released
[02:25] <GotD0t> there will be lots of suits walking around campus today
[02:25] <netventurer> 1.0RC may come out soon...
[02:25] <BugS> correct me if im wrong: all the packages in archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/main are already on the installation CD ?
[02:26] <jdub> BugS: nup
[02:26] <jdub> BugS: only the DesktopSeed and ShipSeed (see the wiki) and dependencies
[02:27] <netventurer> will 1.0 final (0.11) be available in any of the repositories, when it is released?
[02:27] <Treenaks> netventurer: hoary, probably
[02:27] <netventurer> hmm....
[02:29] <jdub> netventurer: in the next release
[02:29] <BugS> ok, here is my final question: i want to install ubuntu at home, where unfortunately i dont have internet access. where can i download some missing packages which would probababy be needed for normal @home usage of my PC (mp3 player, divx player etc) ?
[02:29] <jdub> netventurer: which is due for preview in march and final in april
[02:30] <BugS> i want to make sure that i will not crush into some dependancies problems etc
[02:30] <jdub> BugS: hrm, hard problem
[02:31] <jdub> BugS: do you have an ubuntu machine online anywhere?
[02:31] <BugS> no  :-(
[02:31] <BugS> only debian
[02:34] <altan> how do I chmod all files in a directory as 700?
[02:34] <altan> including subdirs
[02:34] <jdub> chmod -R
[02:34] <darkersatanic> USe the -R option
[02:35] <altan> thanks
[02:44] <boardom> Is there by any chance a ubuntu ppc specific channel?
[02:44] <delire> is Ubuntu any more 'pythonised' than other distro's due to their being a python developer is on the team? i mean python extensions to gnome, configuration utilities etc
[02:44] <delire> s/their/there
[02:45] <jdub> delire: not for warty, but we will be persuing that aggressively over the next few releases
[02:45] <delire> great..
[02:45] <stvn> :)
[02:45] <thisfred> jdub: thanks this was one of my questions too, after hearings Mark Shuttleworths's keynote at europython
[02:46] <jdub> thisfred: good keynote?
[02:46] <jdub> oh, that was a while back, wasn't it?
[02:46] <jdub> he's doing something in frankfurt nowish
[02:46] <delire> as a python junkie i would love to see deep python integration in a distro. i think many many others would too..
[02:47] <thisfred> jdub: excellent, he's a very charismatic guy, and the pictures from outer space helped ;)
[02:47] <jdub> heh
[02:47] <jdub> delire: it'll be the force that binds us :)
[02:47] <delire> jdub: beautifully put
[02:48] <thisfred> yeah it was in june, but I downloaded Ubuntu since, and was kind of looking for the python stuff, in addition to all the other great features it has ;)
[02:49] <thisfred> I'm hooked anyway, so I can wait a while for those
[02:49] <jdub> thisfred: the desktop install comes with a bunch of great python modules by default
[02:49] <Tiboz> hello
[02:49] <jdub> thisfred: so you ought to be able to run good python stuff out of the box
[02:49] <thisfred> oh ok, I'll look into it some more.
[02:49] <delire> jdub: it does?
[02:49] <jdub> thisfred: but we're going to go much further than that ;)
[02:49] <jdub> delire: dpkg -l python*
[02:49] <thisfred> yay!
[02:50] <drunken-wallaby> hi all...
[02:50] <Dekkard> wgday
[02:50] <delire> jdub: i have 5 debian machines but my girlfriend and i are looking to installing ubuntu onto our new lappies
[02:51] <delire> jdub: the clinchers were the 'stable unstable' packages, the ipw2200 support and sensible user:group stuff.
[02:52] <MeAndU> I wont arabic windows encoding for evolution what package do i need
[02:53] <Dekkard> i cannot get gcombust to recognize either cdrom...
[02:54] <delire> MeAndU: hmm 'apt-cache search arabic encoding'
[02:54] <Dekkard> im wondering.. and i may be wrong.. but didnt the 2.6 kernels get rid of  the ide=scsi rule?
[02:55] <delire> good Q
[02:55] <thisfred> Dekkard: I saw this on the channel repeatedly, and apparently at least ubuntu had
[02:55] <thisfred> has
[02:55] <Dekkard> i just feel really awkward after two years of slackware...
[02:56] <Dekkard> im trying to get it to recognize my cannon powershot.. but i think the module for hotplugging isnt loading.. i get an error message at boot
[02:56] <thisfred> Dekkard: but, also apparently from lurking here, cdrom/burner support is not 100% perfect yet
[02:56] <Dekkard> and i havent been able to burn any cds.. other than that..im fairly ok...
[02:57] <Dekkard> thisfred yeah.. i realize that warty isnt fully mature yet
[02:57] <thisfred> for me, burning cds works with nautilus burn:///, but not with any other software
[02:57] <drunken-wallaby> Dekkard: which application did you use for burning your cds?
[02:57] <pyrx> what is the minimum hardware requiered for ubuntu?
[02:57] <Dekkard> ive tried gcombust.. but i cant get it to recognize drives.. so i tried eroaster..
[02:57] <Dekkard> ikky
[02:57] <drunken-wallaby> k3b for example is broken if you try to burn cds as user, you have to start it as root, then it works fine though
[02:58] <jdub> pyrx: you should have 256MB RAM or preferably more for the whole desktop
[02:58] <jdub> pyrx: and 1.3GB on-disk
[02:58] <Dekkard> yeah.. k3b is great, but im trying to stay away from all things kde
[02:58] <zenwhen> Dekkard, good move.
[02:58] <pyrx> jdub: ohh ok :(
[02:58] <zenwhen> Soon libburn will be ready for primetime and there will be NO reason for k3b.
[02:59] <drunken-wallaby> hopefully :)
[02:59] <Dekkard> i cna always boot into windows... and use nero..
[02:59] <zenwhen> Because KDE, Tolltech, and KDE as a whole are a joke.
[02:59] <zenwhen> oops
[02:59] <zenwhen> lol
[02:59] <drunken-wallaby> yeah, nautilus does the job, except for deleting cd-rw, i just can't figure out how the hell this works :)
[02:59] <zenwhen> I said KDE twice. XD
[02:59] <LinuxJones> zenwhen, so what app will be the replacement for k3b ?
[03:00] <zenwhen> Um...
[03:00] <Dekkard> i had kde on mdk, rh, fc1 nad slack and used it for a total of maybe a day..
[03:00] <Treenaks> nautilus-cd-burner?
[03:00] <zenwhen> The only thing needed really is audio cd burning and video dvd burning.
[03:00] <thisfred> only thing I can't figure out is how to directly copy an audio cd with nautilus
[03:00] <zenwhen> Nuatilus does everything else.
[03:00] <thisfred> right
[03:00] <drunken-wallaby> treenaks: yep
[03:00] <bipolar> is there a way to make newly installed apps visable in the Applications menu automaticly?
[03:00] <Dekkard> so i guess to do an audio cd i should use the wave output pluggin on xmms.. than burn the cd  using nautilus... kludgey....
[03:00] <delire> hehe for burning i use 'cdrecord -v -eject dev=/dev/scd0 speed=4 -data data.iso'
[03:01] <delire> it's always been the most reliable
[03:01] <Dekkard> hmm.. prollem is cdrecord aint recognizing my ide burner
[03:01] <zenwhen> I currently use k3b, but I know a guy who is waiting for libburn to become useable to release a gnome based nero clone.
[03:01] <delire> .. and alias it in my .bashrc so that i can 'burn data.iso'
[03:01] <delire> Dekkard: and you have permissions?
[03:02] <timothy_> GnomeToaster used to be my favorite GUI app for burning CDs (cd record, once you know a working command line for it, is even simpler though). However, I have a Mepis (KDE centric) system going at the moment and I gave K3B a try when I burned my Gnoppix/Ubuntu CD, and K3B has gotten very nice, IMO.
[03:02] <zenwhen> Then I am removing everything KDE or QT based from my system
[03:02] <Dekkard> delire: to cdrecord?
[03:02] <delire> Dekkard: to r/w to the burner
[03:02] <gruberman> there's no export in ubuntu?
[03:03] <Dekkard> delire ive tried starting it with gksudo gcombust.. an all, does that count?
[03:03] <delire> Dekkard: sometimes burnerware says it can't find the device because it can't write to it (not read from it).
[03:04] <delire> Dekkard: better asking one of the others.. i haven't even isntalled ubuntu yet
[03:05] <Dekkard> rwxr-xr-x
[03:05] <tom-cat> Well, everything works fine ! Thank Ubuntu Team ! :-D
[03:05] <delire> Dekkard: should be fine.. what device is it.. /dev/***?
[03:07] <delire> Dekkard: if /dev/scd* is ide-scsi loaded?
[03:07] <Dekkard> i believe..
[03:07] <Dekkard>  hang on
[03:08] <Dekkard> properties show it as unmounted in /media/ but i believe it should be /dev/hdd
[03:08] <delire> Dekkard: /etc/fstab has a listing?
[03:09] <drunken-wallaby> anyone knows a suitable tex editor (please not emacs/vim) for gnome?
[03:09] <jdub> gedit
[03:09] <jdub> i think it has tex highlighting
[03:09] <Treenaks> TeX editor?
[03:09] <delire> drunken-wallaby: jedit is excellent
[03:10] <delire> though yes, i use vim ;)
[03:10] <Dekkard>  /dev/hdd        /media/cdrom1   udf,iso9660 ro,user,noauto  0       0
[03:10] <delire> Dekkard: and you can 'mount /media/cdrom1'?
[03:10] <drunken-wallaby> yep, it has, but i really write a lot of things in tex and i'm so used to kile where i can compile and preview my documents within the editor. i don't want to install the kde libs though...
[03:10] <drunken-wallaby> jedit? i'll look into this, thanks delire
[03:10] <Treenaks> drunken-wallaby: vim or emacs :)
[03:11] <delire> drunken-wallaby: jedit.sf.net is java
[03:11] <Dekkard> hmmm
[03:11] <Dekkard>  interesting
[03:11] <Dekkard> nope
[03:11] <zenwhen> java is easy to learn and awful for the end user.
[03:11] <delire> Dekkard: well there's your issue
[03:12] <delire> zenwhen: hehe precis
[03:12] <Dekkard> jIRCii 10.16.04 Linux : I was raised on the dairy. BITCH!
[03:12] <Dekkard> nuffin wrong with a little java in the morning..
[03:12] <zenwhen> LOOK! I CAN WRTIE PROGRAMS! Why wont anyone USE my programs? ;-;
[03:12] <zenwhen> -every java dev
[03:12] <delire> hehe, and by lunch you're put off eating altogether
[03:12] <Kyaneos> hi
[03:13] <Kyaneos> does Ubuntu upgrade the kernel package??
[03:13] <thisfred> drunken-wallaby: re text editors: I use j (not jedit), a very lightweight but powerful and easy to use editor, with plugins for lots of programming languages
[03:13] <Kyaneos> with an apt-get dist-upgrade????
[03:13] <Dekkard>  wrong fs type, bad option, bad superblock on /dev/hdd,
[03:13] <Dekkard>        or too many mounted file systems
[03:13] <jdub> Kyaneos: if it is a compatible upgrade, yes
[03:13] <Dekkard> but we are getting somewhere
[03:14] <jdub> Kyaneos: if the kernel package has a different name, no
[03:14] <Kyaneos> jdub: thx
[03:14] <delire> Dekkard: so it's not an ide-sci then..
[03:14] <drunken-wallaby> thisfred: is j included in the reps?
[03:14] <Kyaneos> jdub: has ubuntu an inesbale version???
[03:15] <Kyaneos> like debian unstable
[03:15] <delire> Dekkard: try 'mkdir ~/test && mount /dev/hdd ~/test'
[03:15] <Dekkard> delire im not sure..  i have to try to figure this non standard mounting thing here.. its wierd
[03:15] <jdub> Kyaneos: inesbale?
[03:15] <thisfred> drunken-wallaby: no, I downloaded it, but it's java (sry zenwhen) so no need to compile or anything
[03:15] <Kyaneos> unstable
[03:15] <Kyaneos> sorrry
[03:15] <drunken-wallaby> thisfred: thanks, i'll have a look...
[03:15] <jdub> Kyaneos: not quite like debian's
[03:15] <jdub> Kyaneos: when we finish a stable release, we open our development branch
[03:15] <Dekkard> ya know
[03:16] <Dekkard> i think im doing this all wrong..
[03:16] <jdub> Kyaneos: our next release is called 'hoary hedgehog', so the current development branch is called 'hoary'
[03:16] <Kyaneos> jdub: and can i download the development packages??
[03:16] <jdub> Kyaneos: it's not ready for use yet
[03:16] <Dekkard> if i put a blank disk into the burner.. it prompts me with the burn cd/dvd box..
[03:16] <Kyaneos> ok
[03:16] <Kyaneos> thx
[03:16] <Dekkard> so thats kewl
[03:16] <jdub> you can, but i would strongly urge you to wait until we announce that it's ready for dogfooding
[03:16] <Dekkard> i just need to do a little prep before i burn a music cd..
[03:16] <Kyaneos> thank you very much
[03:17] <Kyaneos> jdub:
[03:17] <Kyaneos> and sorry for my English
[03:17] <jdub> that's okay :)
[03:17] <jdub> what's your native language?
[03:17] <delire> jdub: what is the version difference (in debian terms) between warty and hoary?
[03:17] <jdub> delire: hoary is resynced to sid now, and will freeze in a few months
[03:17] <Kyaneos> jdub: i am Spanish
[03:17] <delire> jdub: and warty?
[03:18] <delire> Kyaneos: hola! como estas?
[03:18] <jdub> Kyaneos: you know there's an #ubuntu-es channel, and ubuntu-es list? :)
[03:18] <Kyaneos> hola delire
[03:18] <Kyaneos> yes
[03:18] <Kyaneos> i know
[03:18] <jdub> delire: warty is our stable release, kinda like debian's woody, but it was frozen from sid in late june
[03:18] <jdub> Kyaneos: cool
[03:18] <Kyaneos> thx
[03:19] <jdub> Kyaneos: we will all be in barcelona in december :)
[03:19] <delire> jdub: so if i want recent packages what would you suggest? i mean like python2.4
[03:19] <jdub> delire: warty
[03:19] <jdub> though it only has python2.3 in it
[03:19] <jdub> hoary is still syncing, not ready for use, but it'll be ready for dogfooding soon
[03:19] <delire> jdub: and for bleeding edge? can i grab them from hoary package repositories and use something like pinning?
[03:20] <jdub> delire: not yet, and even then, i'd recommend either using hoary or warty
[03:20] <malte> jdub, will hoary be available for amd64 as well?
[03:20] <jdub> yes
[03:20] <malte> cool
[03:20] <jdub> ppc32, i386 and amd64
[03:20] <delire> jdub: so there is no hoary release yet.. i could only see the warty iso
[03:20] <jdub> delire: no, hoary is the just-starting development branch
[03:21] <delire> jdub: right.. and if i do really need a bleeding edge package i should just grab it from unstable branch of packages.debian.org no?
[03:21] <Dekkard> see, i dut dont know if i get this.. /media is a non standard directory of the root tree.. if ya still need to do manual cli stuff to mount an all what is the point?
[03:21] <delire> jdub: instead of manipulating my sources.list to include a deb repository
[03:21] <jdub> delire: we don't recommend mixing debian and ubuntu respositories
[03:22] <jdub> delire: /media is a *standard* directory :)
[03:22] <delire> ?
[03:22] <jdub> Dekkard: ^^
[03:22] <Dekkard> it wasnt on my slack 10 box..
[03:22] <delire> oks
[03:22] <altan_> how do I use "setuid" ?
[03:22] <jdub> Dekkard: slackware is not 'the standard' :)
[03:22] <Dekkard> :P
[03:22] <delire> jdub: so if i really do need a bleeding edge package, can i find it in a hoary repository? sorry i am totally new to ubuntu
[03:22] <Dekkard> is there a /media dir in debian?
[03:23] <altan_> I need to setuid root for pppd
[03:23] <jdub> Dekkard: i believe there is for sarge
[03:23] <delire> Dekkard: no, it's just a dir though.. surely it's just a parent mount point dir
[03:23] <wm_eddie> whenever I press reload I get errors on the main and restricted repositories.
[03:23] <delire> jdub: no /media on this sarge
[03:23] <jdub> delire: well, you can rebuild anything you want, but i'd suggest you either choose between using stable warty or testing hoary
[03:23] <Dekkard> so is it a link to /mnt or to /dev?
[03:23] <jdub> delire: depends when you installed it, i believe
[03:23] <stvn> delire: it is on fresh sarge installs
[03:23] <jdub> Dekkard: no
[03:24] <wm_eddie> http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/warty/main/source/Sources.gz: Sub-process gzip returned an error code (1)
[03:24] <wm_eddie> http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/warty/restricted/source/Sources.gz: Sub-process gzip returned an error code (1)
[03:24] <delire> jdub: ok and that preference is defined in my sources.list
[03:24] <jdub> Dekkard: it is a place for dynamic media mounts
[03:24] <wm_eddie> Have these moved or changed?
[03:24] <Dekkard> okee
[03:25] <Dekkard> hmm
[03:25] <Dekkard> i should wake up whiprush
[03:26] <Dekkard> hey Jorge!!
[03:26] <LinuxJones> wm_eddie, your line in /etc/apt/sources.list should look something like this >> deb-src http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ warty main restricted universe
[03:28] <delire> what is the 'restricted' in a ubuntu sources.list?
[03:28] <delire> i mean, can there be a 'restricted multiverse'?
[03:29] <daniels> restricted is stuff that we can redistribute, but may not be open source/free software
[03:29] <LinuxJones> delire, that repository is for things like nvidia drivers (not open source software per se)
[03:29] <delire> stvn: ahh, this sarge isn't too fresh ;)
[03:29] <daniels> and yes, you can mix them; i have main universe restricted multiverse
[03:29] <daniels> LinuxJones: there's nothing 'per se' about the nvidia drivers
[03:29] <LinuxJones> daniels, ya I know
[03:29] <azumanga> Hello :) I'm having a little problem :( I just tried install ubuntu for the first time. During install it failed to detect my network card (it's a belkin USB card, plugged in through a PCMCIA<->USB adaptor so this didn't shock me too much). After install GNOME was complaining about not being able to find my hostname, and the network didn't appear to work, so I put a simple "auto lo eth0\n iface eth0 inet dhcp" into /etc/network/interfaces, and "127
[03:29] <delire> daniels: interesting
[03:29] <wm_eddie> LinuxJones: It looks like that...
[03:30] <delire> does the ubuntu warty iso provide the kernel sources?
[03:30] <azumanga> delire: you might be reading it wrong. It means access both restricted and universe :)
[03:30] <jdub> delire: no
[03:30] <delire> azumanga: ahah
[03:30] <LinuxJones> wm_eddie, try commenting out any other lines that you may have in your sources.list file and then try re-loading again.
[03:30] <delire> jdub: hmm a shame. useful for compiling a network driver if not autodetected..
[03:30] <stvn> delire: it's like debian with main, contrib and non-free
[03:30] <delire> stvn: gotcha
[03:31] <jdub> delire: too big, and the goal is that you should not have to rebuild a kernel
[03:31] <jdub> delire: my mum, for instance, does not know how to
[03:31] <wm_eddie> commenting out the first two seemed to make it work.
[03:31] <delire> jdub: sure, but how do you get online without the option to compile a module?
[03:31] <azumanga> Perhaps, is there a better way of setting up the network post-install?
[03:31] <delire> jdub: .. 'if all else fails' kind of thing
[03:31] <jdub> delire: my mum would not consider that an option
[03:32] <Treenaks> azumanga: using the network settings program... in the menu
[03:32] <jdub> delire: how would she get the source for the module?
[03:32] <jdub> delire: would she even consider 'rebuilding a kernel'?
[03:32] <delire> jdub: of course, she simply wouldn't be able to get online. but me? i would like the choice..
[03:32] <jdub> delire: i'm not even sure she understands what a kernel is
[03:32] <azumanga> hmm.. I think I'll try a reinstall and see if it behaves better this time :)
[03:32] <jdub> delire: if you're in that situation, you probably know how to solve it
[03:33] <daniels> delire: if you can't get online, you'll need to go download the drivers or whatever anyway, so the kernel sources are no benefit
[03:33] <delire> jdub: my mother doesn't, but she runs debian. when i go to her house i 'administrator' can compile a module from sources on an obscure site on her machine
[03:33] <daniels> er yeah, but you can also download kernel sources from archive.ubuntu.com.
[03:33] <jdub> delire: our solution - that module should be in our kernel
[03:34] <daniels> my mum should buy a wireless card, plug it in, and have it work.  i shouldn't have to establish it's an isl3890 and tell her to download the kernel source, plus the source from prism54.org, then ...
[03:34] <azumanga> Out of interest, is there some way to load an arbitary module during installation, like in debian?
[03:34] <delire> jdub: not true. debian woody provides sources. several times i have needed to compile a network module to be able to get online altogether
[03:34] <zenwhen> Having dual monitors is such a wonderful thing.
[03:34] <daniels> delire: woody's kernel doesn't have nearly as many external modules as ours
[03:34] <smo> azumanga: /etc/modules .. just like debian
[03:34] <zenwhen> I do my work on one monitor, and my play on the other.
[03:34] <jdub> delire: there is not enough room on our CD, we would have to dump other stuff
[03:34] <daniels> delire: you'll notice we provide modules for most everything.  if you see one you need that's not include, please report it in our bts and we'll consider adding it if we can and it enhances network support.
[03:34] <jdub> delire: our solution to this is to increase hardware support in the kernel
[03:34] <cef> smo: he said DURING installation
[03:35] <jdub> delire: not to fill up our CD with stuff that most users won't even consider an option anyway
[03:35] <smo> ah, I missed the installation part :/
[03:35] <delire> daniels: jdub: ok.. fine for those with people nearby that are online however. not for those alone with a network connection that doesn't work in install
[03:35] <benjanet> i cant resize Gaim main window ? any ideas
[03:35] <delire> jdub: the solution you propose is excellent by the way. the right path
[03:35] <jdub> delire: dude, if we include the driver in our kernel, they'll have it at install. that's the solution.
[03:35] <daniels> delire: fwiw, adding a compilable kernel would involve *adding* gcc, libc6-dev, probably libncurses5-dev, and the complete working toolchain.  plus the kernel source.
[03:36] <delire> daniels: yeah ncurses is a bit heavy
[03:36] <Treenaks> we're not Gentoo
[03:36] <daniels> delire: if someone doesn't have a network connection that doesn't work in install, and they can fix this by downloading and compiling a driver, then we should probably be integrating that in our kernel.
[03:36] <daniels> delire: that's what jdub's saying -- the default kernel should work for everyone out of the box
[03:36] <daniels> telling people to recompile their kernel to get network support is total arse
[03:36] <azumanga> What I find more stranrd is I seem to be getting a network after install has finished and rebooted, just not during install :\
[03:37] <|progenic|> in linux, is there any program like download accelerator ?
[03:38] <Treenaks> |progenic|: the only real, working "download accelerator" is getting a better connection
[03:38] <timothy_> Well, there's cacheing ...
[03:38] <Treenaks> |progenic|: for the rest it's just fake and hype
[03:38] <Treenaks> timothy_: true.. but that's not "download acceleration"
[03:38] <|progenic|> but it really help
[03:38] <timothy_> ... and there's wget :)
[03:38] <|progenic|> :)
[03:38] <Treenaks> |progenic|: yes, the windows programs just show numbers 10% higher than the "real" numbers..
[03:38] <cef> |progenic|: you mean a download manager? you might look at d4x. I've heard a bit about it, but not actually used it myself
[03:39] <benjanet> Treenaks, he maybe means a download manager
[03:39] <delire> daniels: yes should work, and if not.. if it *can be downloaded*. in my mothers very rural situation, no one was nearby with a connection. so i had to compile it for her with carious flags to get it to work. i don't think anyone should have to compile a kernel/module. of course.. it's just an advantage of linux over wintel is that one isn't demanded to pursue the absurd situation of needing to be online to download a network driver..
[03:39] <azumanga> treenaks: not true at all
[03:39] <Treenaks> azumanga: very true..
[03:39] <azumanga> I get much faster downloads using getright than firebird or IE
[03:39] <thisfred> |progenic|: you may also want to check out the down-them-all plugin for firefox, it's not an accelerator, but it makes downloading from webpages a lot easier
[03:39] <delire> daniels: luckily the kernel sources were there for use in this extreme situation..
[03:39] <Treenaks> azumanga: that, and most "download accelerator" programs are spyware
[03:39] <|progenic|> heh ? no, i usually can download 20 kbps but if i use the program like that, that can split into 4 download i can reach 100 kbps
[03:39] <Treenaks> |progenic|: then the server has a limit, for a reason
[03:40] <azumanga> I was getting 200K/sec from firebird getting the ubuntu ISO, and 700K/sec using getright
[03:40] <Treenaks> |progenic|: probably better to respect that reason...
[03:40] <daniels> delire: that's a bug that should be fixed; we should be working on fixing the bug, not making it easier to work around absurd situations such as that.
[03:40] <daniels> (at the massive inconvenience of others)
[03:40] <thisfred> most servers now block things like getright and da, which only use multiple connections for the same download
[03:40] <cef> delire: so what was the driver in question?
[03:40] <delire> daniels: sure.. i see the approach is totally different. that said it's a very good approach
[03:41] <azumanga> thisfred: I can't say I've ever had getright blocked
[03:41] <delire> cef: an external usb 3com
[03:41] <delire> cef: like a 3c59x but external
[03:41] <Blight> hey folks
[03:42] <thisfred> azumanga: well you're lucky then ;) Actually I think, like Treenaks said, that using said programs may amount to server abuse
[03:42] <delire> cef: i had to turn of the otherwise very handy if packet stuff to get it to work
[03:42] <cef> delire: ahh no fun
[03:42] <delire> cef: nope..
[03:42] <|progenic|> is there any getright program for linux ?
[03:43] <Blight> progenic: wget is a nice one
[03:43] <Blight> its command line though
[03:43] <|progenic|> ic
[03:43] <|progenic|> ok
[03:43] <thisfred> Blight: but that doesn't open multiple connection to get a faster download
[03:44] <Blight> true
[03:44] <delire> jdub: i agree with your approach btw.. following on from this approach, what if my mother doesn't know what processor arch she runs (as she doesn't). how will she begin the process of choosing the distro? do you see a future where there is an arch detection script?
[03:44] <Treenaks> thisfred: you don't want that :)
[03:44] <thisfred> Treenaks: exactly
[03:44] <cef> |progenic|: look at d4x
[03:44] <cef> |progenic|: it's in universe
[03:44] <azumanga> Ah ha! I've made my network card be detected
[03:44] <delire> jdub: 'choosing the iso' i meant
[03:44] <Treenaks> thisfred: unless you use different mirrors, and check the md5sum.. but then you're better off with bittorrent anyway
[03:45] <cef> delire: the problem with that is manyfold
[03:45] <azumanga> I "modprobe"d a bunch of things until it got detected. I could try to produce a reduced list of what I had to modprobe to detect it during startup.. would such a list be a) useful and b) what should I do with it?
[03:45] <delire> cef: i realise ;) but integral to the uptake
[03:45] <thisfred> Treenaks: +1
[03:45] <cef> delire: with i386/amd64, it's technically possible.. with ppc and many other arches, it's pretty much a hopeless cause
[03:46] <|progenic|> thx
[03:46] <Treenaks> cef: you can make a bootable CD that boots the PPC kernel om PowerPC and the x86/amd64 kernel on those..
[03:47] <cef> delire: you'd need to be able to make an iso/UDF image that will boot on many different architechures.. PPC would be the hardest, but afaik its possible.. plus then you need to put all the packages on the one piece of media.. so you're talking DVD image
[03:47] <delire> cef: what about a DVD with all arch's of base packages precompiled on board.
[03:48] <delire> ahah
[03:48] <jdub> cef: actually, we have a recipe for doing all our current arches on a single dvd :)
[03:48] <jdub> cef: doing the right thing on boot, etc. :)
[03:48] <cef> delire: the big problem is that such an image will be rather large, so it'd be no fun to download
[03:48] <delire> i would say the same people that don't know what an iso is would also not know what arch they run. therefore they'd be better off ordering a DVD via land mail
[03:49] <delire> cef: of course
[03:49] <delire> jdub: very cool. you guys are smart
[03:50] <delire> a 'just works (on everything)' DVD
[03:50] <timothy_> cef - I'd love to see a bootable PPC one :)
[03:51] <delire> is there airport support in Ubuntu PPC? i don't run an apple, just hear it as a complaint on debian lists
[03:52] <jdub> delire: there is no linux support for airport extreme at all
[03:52] <delire> jdub: right..
[03:52] <jdub> the airport on my ibook works fine
[03:52] <Dekkard> hmmm
[03:52] <Dekkard> jdub... should i bet an ibook or powerbook?
[03:53] <Dekkard> or get
[03:53] <delire> powerbooks seem a little cheap to me.. unsturdy. ibooks look like quality
[03:53] <delire> many friends have issues with their PB's
[03:54] <stvn> pbs are the expensive ones, right?
[03:54] <delire> yep
[03:54] <stvn> weird
[03:54] <timothy_> Dekkard: my iBook is the only laptop I've owned on which it has made sense to replace the battery, because the machine keeps surviving rough treatment.
[03:54] <jdub> Dekkard: i wouldn't recommend getting a recent apple laptop if you want to use linux on it
[03:54] <Treenaks> jdub: what laptop would you recommend then?
[03:55] <jdub> well, the IBM X40 is very popular among the ubuntu developer crew
[03:55] <Dekkard> god
[03:55] <jdub> there are some great HP laptops
[03:55] <delire> after 2months research i've just bought this: http://store.agearnotebooks.com/asusm6nphotos.html
[03:55] <timothy_> Dekkard: my iBook is 3 years old; DVD drive door is slow (fixed in later revs, this is Gen 1 white iBook), a few keys had to be fixed on the KB (another issue fixed in later revs), but mostly it just keeps plugging along.
[03:55] <jdub> and i recently got a Dell X300
[03:55] <delire> the sturdiest, fastest, lightest i could find
[03:55] <delire> ewww, delire kicks his inspiron
[03:55] <delire> !lart dell
[03:55] <jdub> (not a big fan of dell hardware, but this is great)
[03:55] <delire> hehe
[03:56] <Dekkard> hmm
[03:56] <stvn> delire: does it have bluetooth?
[03:56] <delire> i looked at everything from the IBM T42p to the G4.. this M6N was it in the benchmarks
[03:56] <Dekkard> how much delire?
[03:56] <delire> stvn: no, need an adapter
[03:56] <delire> Dekkard: i paid US1800.00
[03:57] <Dekkard> too rich for me
[03:57] <delire> Dekkard:.. but had it sent to the EU
[03:57] <Dekkard> im lookin at @1500 us or less..
[03:57] <delire> Dekkard: this starts at US1360... a perfect 3D machine
[03:57] <Dekkard> apple has refurb g4 powerbooks with the usperdrive for just a touch over that
[03:58] <delire> Dekkard: carbin fibre casing. in a trade show the guy was throwing it to the ground and then booting it up and playing some game
[03:58] <delire> s/carbin/carbon
[03:58] <Dekkard> hmm
[03:58] <delire> lovely to look at in the flesh.. lid snaps shut, keys beautiful to type on. very happy.
[03:58] <timothy_> I saw a toughbook demo once where they did that ... over and over.
[03:59] <delire> a 1.8Ghz centrino benchmarks close to a 2.8Ghz P4 across the board
[03:59] <timothy_> Drop, play with, show how the movie playing didn't even skip. Drop, type some, drop, play a game ...
[03:59] <Dekkard> how is linux centrino support at the moment?
[03:59] <delire> timothy_:yeah they look ok too, though expensive
[03:59] <delire> Dekkard: well with Ubuntu it's creat ;)
[03:59] <Dekkard> hmm
[03:59] <mjg59> Dekkard: The video is supported, the CPU scaling is supported, the wireless is supported
[03:59] <delire> Dekkard: from what i read.. one of the only distro's to 'just work' with the ipw2200 and ipw2100
[04:00] <delire> Dekkard: one of the reasons i'm here, Ubuntu is unique in that respect.. a lot of laptop owners will move to Ubuntu for this reason
[04:00] <cef> timothy_: the toughbooks are very nice like that..
[04:00] <timothy_> cef: the demo was sort of painful to watch :)
[04:00] <timothy_> BANG!
[04:00] <delire> timothy_: same for this tough asus M6N
[04:01] <delire> timothy_: people were covering their faces
[04:01] <timothy_> delire: yeah, I am impressed with what you say about it :)
[04:01] <delire> timothy_: it's light a quiet. pretty good for an x86 lappie
[04:02] <delire> problem is it looks very 'business' ;)
[04:02] <cef> timothy_: heh.. I don't flinch anymore when people drop hardware.. I work with industrial drop rated PDA.. 1000 x 1m drops - 2 secs between each drop.
[04:02] <timothy_> Wireless has become a pain on my Linux laptop (PCMCIA slots are dying or dead, it seems, and I can *almost* but not quite get the USB wireless dongle to work with SBC), and iBook is nice but I prefer Linux, so I went and got a cheap system the other day, which is what I'm typing on now.
[04:02] <TdC_VgA> just wanted to pop in and say.. congrats on the live cd, ppc, and final warty release.
[04:03] <timothy_> cef: what PDA is that?
[04:03] <cef> timothy_: we used to literally kick one around the office, till we managed to crack a window
[04:03] <TdC_VgA> been running the beta on my laptop for a few months and i have to say it's by far my favorite distro. great job.
[04:04] <TdC_VgA> my WiFi still doesn't work in ubuntu =(, but hey thats what you get with broadcom.. apparently some people have the same card working, but I can't seem to get it to send/recieve only scan for APs.
[04:04] <timothy_> delire: thanks for pointing that laptop out; if I *do* get a new laptop sometime soon, that will be on the list.
[04:04] <TdC_VgA> when i try to connect to the AP, it just sits with DHCP looping over and over until it times out, and if i try to specify an IP i get nothing either
[04:05] <cef> timothy_: the brand is Symbol. http://www.symbol.com/ and look under the portable computing devices.. lots to choose from, but they all run DOS, PalmOS or WinCE.. though apparently they did put linux on one for Siemens.. *sigh*
[04:05] <Dekkard> interesting lappy delire
[04:05] <Dekkard> sexy
[04:05] <timothy_> cef: Yes, I'm familiar (not through use, just knowledge) with symbol.
[04:05] <timothy_> delire: is the battery run-down time real?
[04:05] <cef> timothy_: all the WinCE ones though are pretty much just hotted up iPAQ's
[04:05] <timothy_> 5.5 hours?
[04:05] <Treenaks> TdC_VgA: does the card associate with the ap (you can seet hat with iwconfig)
[04:06] <Dekkard> i notice that the asus lappys at that site.. come with no os.. nice
[04:06] <cef> timothy_: though they don't share anything with them in design
[04:06] <Dekkard> what is the difference between wxga and sxga?
[04:07] <TdC_VgA> Treenaks: lemme check.. one minute
[04:08] <zverj> hello, i got question, where ubuntu has php4-dbase module or how else can i enable it?
[04:08] <delire> timothy_: yes it is. 6hrs of average use
[04:08] <TdC_VgA> i heard there was a commercial driver for ndis that might help, linuxant or something...
[04:08] <Dekkard> delire: you may jsut have sold me on this asus.. i love carbon fibre..
[04:08] <timothy_> delire: impressive.
[04:08] <TdC_VgA> i'd definitely be willing to pay 20.00 to make my wifi work.
[04:09] <delire> timothy_: i read 30 reviews, read extensive benchmarks, read about the chassis, read about linux on the machine. this what my choice
[04:09] <delire> s/what/was
[04:09] <TdC_VgA> damn broadcom not releasing their op codes.. just lame
[04:09] <Treenaks> delire: wow.. that M6000 series looks fiine
[04:09] <delire> Dekkard: it's lovely. read what ppl say about it on the notebookforums.com
[04:09] <delire> if you're in the US Frank at agearnotebooks.com delivers in 3days
[04:09] <delire> Treenaks: it's a goodie
[04:10] <altan_> hell yes, I finally got pppd working on non-root
[04:10] <urukhai> hi
[04:10] <Dekkard> dayum!
[04:10] <delire> my Dell Inspiron creaks and has a disconcerting flexibility in the lib
[04:10] <Dekkard> man that is sexy.. and no windows tax!!
[04:10] <timothy_> delire: very nice. that's the new top of my list if I should get an intel-type laptop soon.
[04:10] <delire> the kb is slightly uneven and the cdrom drive wobbles a bit..
[04:11] <urukhai> does ubuntu support amd64 arch?
[04:11] <delire> timothy_: oh make sure you read up on the fallacy of clock speeds. a 1.5 vs a 1.8 is little difference for most applications. no need to pay too much more there
[04:11] <cef> urukhai: yes
[04:11] <delire> timothy_: with the centrino's i mean
[04:11] <urukhai> great...i shall give it a try
[04:11] <cef> urukhai: I have it installed on a dual opteron at work.. runs nicely
[04:12] <delire> Dekkard: exactly! no wintel tax
[04:12] <Dekkard> hmmm
[04:12] <timothy_> delire: no worries on that front. The only reason I've been avoiding centrino is poor Linux support, though I'm glad to read (here) that Ubuntu is fixing that.
[04:12] <TdC_VgA> Treenaks: after an ifup wlan0, i do see "WARFROG" my essid listed under iwconfig
[04:12] <Dekkard> delire: how much post install configuration did you need to do with ubuntu  on that lappy?
[04:13] <Treenaks> TdC_VgA: and the right channel as well?
[04:13] <urukhai> i hope there won't be any prob with nforce3 chipset...
[04:13] <Treenaks> TdC_VgA: and the WEP key?
[04:13] <delire> Dekkard: i haven't installed yet, still on debian then again that wasn't too bad.
[04:13] <timothy_> On my new cheap system ($450 for Sempron 2800/512MB RAM/60GB HD/CD-RW/DVD/17" CRT), live Gnoppix Ubuntu disk works great.
[04:13] <delire> Dekkard: just discovered Ubuntu yesterday
[04:13] <delire> timothy_: hmm..
[04:13] <TdC_VgA> Treenaks: it's saying encryption off... odd, the channel is 2.447Ghz that should be right
[04:14] <TdC_VgA> setting encryption is wireless_keymode restricted correct?
[04:14] <Treenaks> TdC_VgA: no, it's iwconfig eth0 key yourkey
[04:14] <wasabi> Soooooo. When can we expect Ubuntu Server Edition, which will automatically set up OpenLDAP Samba, and Kerberos. :0
[04:14] <Treenaks> TdC_VgA: ("wireless_key yourkey" in /etc/network/interfaces)
[04:14] <benjanet> i cant resize Gaim main window ? any ideas
[04:14] <Treenaks> benjanet: can you make it larger, but not smaller?
[04:15] <benjanet> Treenaks, yes
[04:15] <TdC_VgA> i have that also, but the key is just XXXXXXXXXXXX... no quotes or hex XX:XX blocks is that ok?
[04:15] <cef> Treenaks: adding 'restricted' before the key is sometimes necessary
[04:15] <urukhai> what about ATI drivers? do they run on amd64 ubuntu?
[04:15] <cef> TdC_VgA: that's the only way it'll accept the key, so that's ok
[04:16] <TdC_VgA> i wonder why it's not picking up the key now... odd
[04:16] <Treenaks> cef: uh ok
[04:16] <cef> Treenaks: depends on the AP and card
[04:16] <altan-> sorry about jumping in and out, won't happen anymore since pppd works properly and xchat is configured
[04:16] <cef> Treenaks: I just tend to use it now by default cos it tends to work on them all or just get ignored
[04:17] <delire> Dekkard: my girlfriend bought this beautiful little Asus: http://store.agearnotebooks.com/asusm3nphoto.html
[04:17] <Treenaks> cef: I have a prism54 and an asus AP.. works fine
[04:17] <TdC_VgA> cef: think i should comment out restricted and see if that helps?
[04:17] <cef> TdC_VgA: give it a shot
[04:17] <Treenaks> delire: I want a windowsless laptop.. :(
[04:17] <delire> Treenaks: these come without windows
[04:18] <Treenaks> delire: they do? not in the on-line stores I'm looking..
[04:18] <delire> Treenaks: http://agearnotebooks.com (i foudn these guys after price comparisons and searching for blank lappies)
[04:19] <Treenaks> do they ship to Europe? :)
[04:19] <TdC_VgA> heh, removing the restricted definitely setup the KEY, but still no response from DHCP
[04:19] <Treenaks> TdC_VgA: is the channel OK?
[04:19] <delire> Treenaks: yes, but like me (in Spain) you have to pay import tax. you can claim this back though.
[04:20] <Treenaks> delire: claim it back?
[04:20] <delire> Treenaks: and ask Frank at agearnotebooks to not use DHL, they are evil and hopeless.
[04:20] <TdC_VgA> anyone know if 2.447GHz is channel 8?
[04:20] <delire> Treenaks: tax reclamation. tax deductable
[04:20] <Treenaks> delire: I know DHL is hopeless... I get my amazon packages from them..
[04:20] <delire> Treenaks: they have really dicked us around
[04:20] <Treenaks> delire: oh? I hope it's that way in .nl as well
[04:21] <delire> Treenaks: if you pay import *tax* then it is reclaimable
[04:21] <Treenaks> I'll ask my local tax expert :)
[04:21] <delire> Treenaks: wise
[04:21] <Treenaks> (i.e. dad :))
[04:21] <delire> hehe
[04:21] <TdC_VgA> yeah channel is ok 2.447 is channel 8... what my AP requires
[04:21] <TdC_VgA> =)
[04:22] <kensai> Hi guys
[04:22] <cef> TdC_VgA: did you set the mode to managed?
[04:23] <TdC_VgA> cef: listed as managed by iwconfig, but i'll specifically state it
[04:24] <cef> TdC_VgA: might also try 'iwconfig dev commit' if you're doing it manually
[04:25] <cef> TdC_VgA: no need to do that with interfaces tho, the scripts do it automatically
[04:25] <kensai> how can one join the ubuntu mailing list?
[04:26] <delire> hehe funny that such a 'just works' distro goes against popular opinion and shows that a <IP_ADDRESS> kernel. i think that's excellent
[04:27] <delire> where deb and rh developers say 'no way', 'impossible' won't work
[04:27] <cef> go to http://lists.ubuntu.com/, find the list you want to join, enter your email address and specify a password. you'll get an email you'll have to confirm to accept the subscription
[04:27] <TdC_VgA> hmm
[04:27] <TdC_VgA> worth a shot.
[04:27] <kensai> cef: thanks
[04:28] <cef> kensai: welcome
[04:29] <kensai> I have a network in my home and it is visible through ubunut but how can I set up to use a printer that is in another pc of the network?
[04:30] <TdC_VgA> no go still.. just odd to me, considering I scan scan the aps.
[04:32] <kensai> is ther any prog for doing this on gnome?
[04:32] <timothy_> kensai: I've never actually set out with that goal, but I found that when I set up Knoppix as a HD-based distro on several machines that the KDE print system noted the printer hooked to one of the machines and made it visible to all the others on the network, and printing to it was transparent. However, I have not tried with Ubuntu, I don't even have a printer available at the moment ;)
[04:33] <kensai> Ohh thanks any ways Ill just try and figure it out
[04:34] <crofty> i am not sure whether my order for pressed cd version of ubuntu has been accepted , i have not got any confirmation emails yet , was about a week ago
[04:35] <cef> TdC_VgA: what wifi card?
[04:36] <kensai> I just have to give it up for ubuntu configuring my network automagically
[04:36] <TdC_VgA> cef: broadcom 54g
[04:37] <TdC_VgA> built into my averatec unfortunatly =(.
[04:37] <cef> ahh broadcom.. yukko.. you have my sympathies
[04:37] <TdC_VgA> thanks... i get that a lot. heh
[04:38] <nanotech> i was told that many linux distros have a module that enforces password strength...does debian/ubuntu have this? and if so, how can i edit the parameters?
[04:38] <krunk-> hello
[04:38] <cef> nanotech: usually to do with pam, look in /etc/pam.d/
[04:39] <krunk-> so, if you install a package in ubuntu does it automagically appear in the start menu? Also are the mime types well set up by default, e.g., click a *.wmv and the media player pops open?
[04:39] <bob2> no and probably no
[04:39] <krunk-> is there a distro that does so?
[04:39] <jdub> krunk-: if it has a menu item included, it will automatically add it to the menu
[04:39] <crimsun> krunk-: not that I'm aware
[04:39] <jdub> the mime types are set up by default
[04:40] <krunk-> ok, conflicting answers hehe
[04:40] <crimsun> (I'm answering the distro question)
[04:40] <JanneM> it depends on the individual packages
[04:40] <Anna> Hi, I thought I can erase files on a CD RW by just selecting and dragging them to the trash. Now it tells me that the files are read-only, how do I clean that CD anyway?
[04:40] <jdub> krunk-: these are gnome features, and i can say yes to both :)
[04:40] <JanneM> if it packaged to add menu entry, fix a mime entry and so on, it will
[04:40] <jdub> krunk-: so any distro that ships gnome will do it
[04:40] <bob2> krunk-: I'm wrong, jdub knows far more than me
[04:40] <jdub> JanneM: it's not package-dependent
[04:40] <nanotech> according to IBM's roadmap to switching to linux: "  Most Linux distributions install with a password cracker  module activated for password changes. This module will test a password to see if it follows good password practices. If not, a warning will be given that the user is using a bad password. Depending on your configuration, a user may be required to use a secure password before it will be accepted. Root may be warned when a password is
[04:40] <JanneM> no?
[04:41] <crimsun> oh, if you're referring to GNOME packages, then yes.
[04:41] <jdub> if a .desktop file is added to the /usr/share/applications/ dir, the panel menu applet updates itself
[04:41] <bob2> jdub: dnotify? ;)
[04:41] <krunk-> lets say it's the basics, e.g., I don't care if the default media player is used as long as it plays files automagically. The want to install all the little games packages, but don't kow how to dig for them so they need to be in the menu
[04:41] <jdub> bob2: via fam, yeah
[04:41] <TdC_VgA> apparently some people have gotten this same card to work, but not me heh
[04:41] <bob2> hah
[04:41] <JanneM> jdub: how would apt know what MIME to register a packaged mplayer handles, for instance?
[04:41] <jdub> krunk-: a lot of the games won't have gnome menu entries
[04:42] <jdub> JanneM: talking about gnome packages
[04:42] <JanneM> ok
[04:42] <jdub> JanneM: if mplayer had a .desktop file, it would work too
[04:42] <krunk-> jdub: alright, is kde acceptably supported (I think they'd prefer k3b over the alternatives)
[04:42] <JanneM> I think krunk- meant it a bit more genreally thoigh
[04:42] <kensai> krunk-: lots of game can be executed through the terminal just wrinting their names
[04:42] <Anna> Ok, let me ask the other way around. How do I change permission to turn read only files into read and write?
[04:42] <jdub> krunk-: kde isn't supported, but it is installable
[04:43] <krunk-> kensai: I know, but this is for a true newb
[04:43] <krunk-> Anna: man chmod
[04:43] <JanneM> krunk-: if you are adding the stuff for them, you can add menu entries manually as well
[04:43] <Anna> ok
[04:44] <Anna> No manual entry for changemod
[04:44] <babui> man chmod
[04:45] <kensai> krunk-: yeah menu entries are the best way to go but I have installed from apt a program that is called menu that adds this things automatocally some of them
[04:45] <Anna> ah
[04:45] <JanneM> Anna: why waste vowels :)
[04:45] <krunk-> JanneM: well, the reason I'm digging for this is: I've been doing that for them min fedora as well as handling all the other little glitches that pop up. they really like linux however they're like: what are we going to do when your not around? and will probably buy XP. They went weeks without being able to play movies because when they clicked the file nothing happened and they didn't want to bother me
[04:46] <JanneM> krunk-: what do they do when something gets messed up in Windows?
[04:46] <krunk-> JanneM: well, that rarely happens if you just use it for things like watching videos, browsing the web, or such. And if it gets very messed up, they reinstall and everything *just works (TM)* again
[04:47] <kensai> krunk-: lol
[04:47] <krunk-> but since it doesn't just work and the install is intimidating, well, it's understandable for those not in the know
[04:48] <kensai> windows gets messed only for browsing the web
[04:48] <babui> at home my wife browses and I finish removing adware, viruses, etc. :-)
[04:48] <kensai> YEAH
[04:48] <babui> with my debian and now with my ubuntu I neves haves problems
[04:48] <krunk-> yes, but it takes time....and the "messed up" is spy ware and pop ups.....thus reinstall. Not saying it's a good strategy but it's what probably 70% of the people do
[04:49] <kensai> ^this leads me to one curiosity does spyware works in Linux?
[04:49] <x43> there would be no benefit from running ubuntu on a xeon processor ?
[04:49] <krunk-> kensai: no
[04:49] <kensai> tracking cookies work on Linux?
[04:49] <kensai> why?
[04:49] <krunk-> kensai: of course
[04:50] <krunk-> kensai: if you have those types of cookies enabled (just like windows)
[04:50] <kensai> so tracking cookies work but spyware dont?
[04:50] <krunk-> kensai: spyware is often binary in nature, such as activeX which will not work in linux
[04:50] <Anna> "chmod: too few arguments" . What argument would I use if I want to change writing permission on all files of a CD RW?
[04:50] <kensai> So I just need to clean my cookies of firefox periodically?
[04:51] <cef> kensai: yup. spyware tries to install stuff that only usually runs on windows.. cookies should work on any architecture
[04:51] <krunk-> kensai: you can simply tighten up cookie handling and never clean.
[04:51] <babui> and it's difficult to install a resident program in linux
[04:51] <babui> even if you execute some code this code will disappear in the next reboot
[04:51] <JanneM> Anna: chmod -R a+rw /path/to/the/CD
[04:51] <cef> it'd be really nice to have a program that kills tracking cookies though
[04:51] <kensai> Ok then when someone start to write spyware for linux we will need to use spyware blaster and adaware?
[04:51] <babui> in the CD you can't change mode
[04:52] <Anna> Ok JanneM, I'll try that (sheesh, and I was suppose to know this from the manual?)
[04:53] <krunk-> kensai: it's very hard to write spyware for linux. Especially if you use only opensource apps. Afterall everyone is looking at the source and no one like spyware
[04:53] <nanotech> anna...i think you'll have to reburn the cd...unless you have some sort of "hot write" ability on it
[04:53] <JanneM> Anna: nope.
[04:54] <nanotech> w/ the permissions
[04:54] <kensai> Ohhh
[04:54] <kensai> because of spyware bill gates runs mac LOL
[04:54] <JanneM> Anna: I think nanotech is right, too; rewritable CD can't really be treated as ordinary file systtem
[04:54] <krunk-> kensai: but in theory, if you were foolish enough to install spyware on linux, it would run
[04:55] <JanneM> Anna: for changing permissions of individual files, you can do that in the file manager
[04:55] <JanneM> Anna: that is for speedy changing of _everything_ at once
[04:55] <krunk-> kensai: no one would add spyware to they're package mirrors though. so you'd really have to go out of your way
[04:55] <kensai> right you are
[04:56] <krunk-> Anna: man chmod will tell you about permission changing
[04:56] <nanotech> so krunk, software can't be installed upon my linux partitions via 3rd party?
[04:56] <nanotech> ie spyware
[04:57] <krunk-> nanotech: well, technically spyware can't be installed via 3rd party in windows either...you have to do it. in linux it could be done if you chose too, but not system wide...only in the users directory foolish enough to install it
[04:58] <nanotech> ok, lets say i stuble accross a site that sploits my sys with java to install some spyware...
[04:58] <krunk-> so, you won't ever have the classic windows problem of spyware reaking havoc on the entire system unless said user was fooolish enough to install as root
[04:58] <cef> nanotech: it's always possible, it's just a lot harder and also less likely (linux is less of a target)
[04:58] <krunk-> nanotech: it would only be done in the user's home directory
[04:58] <nanotech> so the spyware can't be global
[04:58] <nanotech> i c
[04:59] <krunk-> nanotech: exactly. So IF it happens and you notice it's a simple rm -rf ~/.spyware from being gone
[04:59] <cef> and if it did run, to get everywhere else, it'd have to try to assume root, which is also unlikely
[04:59] <x43> the ubuntu cd's that are free do they send you the next latest release ?
[04:59] <nanotech> why is that unlikley?
[05:00] <jdub> x43: you'll have to request them again
[05:00] <nanotech> i thought the ideas WAS to assume root?
[05:00] <krunk-> how is the ubuntu installer? I was super impressed with the xandros one, best I've seen so far
[05:00] <jdub> krunk-: simple, text-based
[05:00] <krunk-> debian style :)
[05:00] <nanotech> yeah, the ubuntu installer was pretty smooth
[05:00] <nanotech> really lax
[05:00] <kensai> But ia have to install pakages as root so If I accidentally install spyware it will be globally?
[05:01] <krunk-> kensai: you never *have* to install packages as root
[05:01] <krunk-> you can make a ~/bin and install packages there if you really want.
[05:02] <kensai> but only in ubuntu then because in other distros I have to install as root
[05:02] <krunk-> so, here's the setup: one has root, she knows what she's doing. Other users either must ok it with her or install into ~/bin
[05:02] <Anna> sigh. command chmod -R a+rw  did not change permission into writable and unspecified error made the trashcan crash...
[05:02] <krunk-> Anna: chmod 666 -R .Trash
[05:03] <kensai> chmod 666 doesn't bring up satan on your screen? LOL
[05:03] <krunk-> Anna: check ownership: ls -ld .Trash you may not have permission to change permissions requiring su root to do it
[05:03] <krunk-> kensai: yes it does, now you know the truth of linux
[05:04] <kensai> LOL
[05:04] <Anna> Ok, basically all I'm trying to do is delete all files on a CD RW. It can't be really that difficult
[05:04] <krunk-> Anna: oooo, cdrw is not like a standard file system
[05:04] <nanotech> i dunno how to do that in ubuntu...
[05:04] <krunk-> Anna: I would suggest using k3b and erasing the disk
[05:05] <nanotech> i do know that there's some sorta burning tool that autolaunches when you insert a blank cd-r
[05:05] <krunk-> or an equiv.....does ubuntu have UDF filesystems enabled by default?
[05:05] <nanotech> am i talking about k3b?
[05:05] <kensai> which is best nautilus cd burner or k3b?
[05:05] <Anna> I use Ubuntu Gnome and I tried to install KDE and K3B. don't ask
[05:06] <krunk-> I find k3b to be one of the best OS apps put out in quite a while....all around
[05:06] <KarlosII> what is so great about ubuntu?
[05:06] <krunk-> KarlosII: it does your laundry and orders pizza
[05:06] <jdub> KarlosII: might want to read the website for such a general question :)
[05:06] <jdub> KarlosII: lots of useful answers to that in the FAQ
[05:06] <KarlosII> jdub, uhh
[05:06] <kensai> KarlosII: everything from it philosophy to its ways
[05:06] <Anna> Ubuntu is a good starting point for newbies who just like to use a GUI of Debian to work yourself deeper into linux
[05:07] <JanneM> on the other hand, with nautilus burner you just drag your files over, select "burn" and you're done
[05:07] <KarlosII> jdub, I read part of it but don't understand what it does differently then other distros
[05:07] <nanotech> speaking about the website and general ubuntu intro...i ordered the desmond tutu book that's linked offa the site...
[05:07] <krunk-> JanneM: does nautilus burner support UDF?
[05:07] <nanotech> WTF does it have to do with ubuntu?
[05:07] <JanneM> what is that?
[05:07] <jdub> KarlosII: it's a single CD install
[05:07] <jdub> KarlosII: it includes a full desktop system by default
[05:07] <jdub> KarlosII: we release every six months
[05:07] <jdub> KarlosII: releases are synchronised with gnome
[05:08] <kensai> every six month is the best part for me
[05:08] <Anna> No JanneM, I tried to drag the files onto that particular CD RW but it tells my the disc is busy - probably -because- there are read only files on there
[05:08] <jdub> gets into specifics beyond that
[05:08] <krunk-> jdub: you a dev?
[05:08] <zenwhen> KarlosII: It doesnt include KDE. Thats a big enough advantage right there
[05:08] <jdub> yes
[05:08] <KarlosII> jdub, so what is it that people see in it
[05:08] <zenwhen> XD
[05:08] <KarlosII> lol
[05:08] <kensai> KDE is bloat
[05:08] <krunk-> props to all OS devs.
[05:08] <jdub> KarlosII: it works really well, is based on debian, etc., etc.
[05:08] <jdub> KarlosII: probably best to read reviews and the FAQ
[05:08] <jdub> kensai: dude, please don't
[05:08] <JanneM> Anna: can't you just format the disk?
[05:08] <krunk-> one mans bloat is anothers utility. some say gnome is bloat :)
[05:08] <KarlosII> jdub, does it come with cedega
[05:08] <kensai> OK forget what I said
[05:08] <jdub> KarlosII: no
[05:09] <Anna> If I knew how...
[05:09] <kensai> LOL
[05:09] <nanotech> so is anyone gonna sugest any correlations between tutu and ubuntu other than the term "ubuntu?"
[05:09] <eruin> KarlosII: you have to pay for cedega, so ofc not ;P
[05:09] <KarlosII> jdub, but lindows deos...hmm  I'm just trying to find one for my mother
[05:09] <krunk-> Anna: sorry, I'm not familar with nautilus and whether it can erase cdrw's
[05:09] <JanneM> Anna: I've never used rewritable CD:s so I can't really help further, but it's bound to be some easy way
[05:09] <jdub> KarlosII: you have to buy lindows
[05:09] <kensai> I find lindows harder to use than ubuntu Honestlyu
[05:10] <jdub> Anna: (i believe it blanks cds first)
[05:10] <KarlosII> jdub, heh I will after  I try it to see if it's workable for mymother
[05:10] <JanneM> nanotech: Tutu and Shuttleworth are bouth from South Africa
[05:10] <eruin> kensai: might be because they concentrate on kde?
[05:10] <Kano> krunk-: cdrecord -dev x,y,z -driveropts=burnfree blank=fast
[05:10] <kensai> maybe
[05:10] <lifeless> I thought tutu was south american for some reason
[05:10] <kensai> and they bring a broken apt
[05:10] <KarlosII> hiya kano
[05:10] <krunk-> Kano: I was trying to avoid the cli for Anna
[05:10] <kensai> just for you to buy crn
[05:10] <eruin> not to mention a broken website :)
[05:10] <Kano> krunk-: ;)
[05:11] <kensai> LOL
[05:11] <nanotech> janneM...i know this...
[05:11] <Kano> a linux user without that knowledge is no real user
[05:11] <KarlosII> lol
[05:11] <kensai> so any other thing to bash? HEHE
[05:11] <nanotech> but one has to DIG deep to see ANY relation to ubuntu and the "FSF" for example
[05:11] <nanotech> or anyother "freedom of software rights" movements
[05:12] <jdub> lifeless: wtf?! :)
[05:12] <lifeless> jdub: ?
[05:12] <jdub> lifeless: south american....
[05:12] <Kano> kensai: if you never use command line you can stay with win
[05:12] <Anna> Well, I happen to have run out of blank CD's which is why I "wanted" to delete all data on a redundant CD RW. I tried Google to find out how but apparently that's an issue.
[05:12] <lifeless> brazil/argentina sort of thing. that was the impression I got from RMS
[05:12] <lifeless> (obviously the wrong end of the globe)
[05:12] <kensai> instead of Lindows yeah
[05:12] <Ng> don't listen to RMS ;)
[05:12] <KarlosII> Lindows :)
[05:13] <kensai> Kano: i HATE WINDOWS
[05:13] <|progenic|> anybody can suggest one good samba browser ?
[05:13] <krunk-> Kano: bah, you shouldn't have to cli to use an os
[05:13] <KarlosII> krunk-, that's a lousy philosophy
[05:13] <Anna> Kano, I like what you did to Knoppix but your attitude sucks ass
[05:13] <KarlosII> Anna, uh
[05:13] <kensai> I have windows in one of my harddrive but I only use it for my games
[05:14] <krunk-> that's a true philosophy.
[05:14] <eruin> whats the anoncvs pserv for gnome?
[05:14] <kensai> theres been a week since I don't boot to Windows
[05:14] <eruin> nm
[05:14] <krunk-> just like you shouldn't have to solder to use a toaster
[05:14] <|progenic|> me too
[05:14] <nanotech> anna...what?
[05:14] <KarlosII> Anna, no windows users can't come to linux thinking they don't have to change their attitudes and ways
[05:14] <|progenic|> almost a week i never boot to windows
[05:15] <Kano> Anna: thats a bit drastic, but if you are not willing to learn that too you do not really need linux
[05:15] <kensai> damn cedega not supporting splinter cell thats the only reason for having one HDD with winslows
[05:15] <nanotech> prog, kensai...that's music to my ears
[05:15] <kensai> What?
[05:15] <nanotech> not booting into win for a week
[05:15] <Anna> It is exactly that derogatory, elitist crap that had kept me away from linux for years.
[05:15] <kensai> yeah
[05:15] <Anna> Who says I
[05:15] <nanotech> i like hearing people expressing how they've become winged offa win.
[05:15] <Anna> m not ready to learn
[05:16] <krunk-> Anna: I have googled a bit for you and there is a way in nautilus to erase your cdrw, but I havn't seen it step by step layed out yet.
[05:16] <kensai> cause I just finished playing splinter cell pandora tomorrow a week ago LOL
[05:16] <KarlosII> kensai, hey if the support C&C Generals that'll get rid of my windows partition
[05:16] <krunk-> Anna: maybe poke around the helps
[05:16] <|progenic|> :)
[05:16] <Kano> Anna: you can not do everyhing with a gui
[05:16] <jdub> guys
[05:16] <krunk-> Kano: name one
[05:16] <jdub> off-topic stuff elsewhere please
[05:16] <JanneM> you should be able to
[05:16] <kensai> I just boot for gaming If I click the blue E in the desktop windows could get messed LOL
[05:16] <|progenic|> to tell the truth, when i got my job interview, a lot of companies nowadays require us to know about linux
[05:17] <krunk-> Kano: without getting to abstract
[05:17] <eruin> KarlosII: cedega supports c&cgenerals
[05:17] <nanotech> for me...i still boot into windows due to multimedia software
[05:17] <KarlosII> eruin, since when
[05:17] <kensai> I'm right now in windows at the university but I'm connected to my server in freebsd
[05:17] <eruin> since 4.0.1, improved in 4.1
[05:17] <eruin> KarlosII: http://downloads.transgaming.com/files/cedega-4.1_releasenotes.txt
[05:17] <bigbrother0074> what is gnoppix?
[05:17] <Kano> krunk-: thats not based upon one example, you need console in many ways.
[05:18] <Ng> anyone know if ia32-libs is enough for cedega to work on an amd64 install?
[05:18] <KarlosII> eruin, zero hour?
[05:18] <Kano> at least the basics everone should know
[05:18] <eruin> KarlosII: isn't that just a mod ?
[05:18] <eruin> or expansion?
[05:18] <kensai> soon my server will be changed from freebsd to red hat
[05:18] <Kano> so it really wont hurt when you know how to burn/erase a cd
[05:18] <KarlosII> eruin, expansion
[05:18] <Anna> I had entered your chat on Kanotix and "well have you ever heard anything of command line" was your response to every question. If you don't feel like talking to anybody "beneath" you, then make it clear that newbies aren't welcome and non-experts should get a clue first.
[05:19] <KarlosII> eruin, u have to install it with it's own key
[05:19] <eruin> http://digital-conquest.ath.cx/wiki/index.php/Command_&_Conquer:_Generals_Zero_Hour
[05:19] <eruin> oh, that doesn't matter
[05:19] <krunk-> Kano: for every day use you really don't. now, true things like: find ~/ -type f | xargs chmod 660 you can't easily do that in gui, but it's not a common demand
[05:19] <jdub> Anna, Kano, krunk-: dudes, please, elsewhere.
[05:20] <krunk-> Anna: what version of gnome?
[05:20] <krunk-> jdub: sorry, back on topic.
[05:20] <Anna> 2.8
[05:20] <Mithrandir> Ng: I think it should be enough, yes.
[05:20] <kensai> jdub: rofl
[05:20] <krunk-> Anna: there should be an "erase cd" checkbox
[05:20] <nanotech> are there any linux certs i can work on, that you ppl could sugest?
[05:20] <Ng> Mithrandir: I keep meaning to try, but I always forget when I'm at home in front of it ;)
[05:21] <Kano> Anna: have fun with gui, when you are more advanced you should learn more
[05:21] <Mithrandir> Ng: if there's anything missing from the ia32-libs we have, I'd like to be told, so we could fix it.
[05:21] <KarlosII> eruin, deos internet play work with nocd?
[05:21] <sihuman> hello
[05:21] <Ng> Mithrandir: ok, will do
[05:21] <eruin> KarlosII: no
[05:21] <kensai> Kano: C&C generals is almost supported on cedega
[05:22] <bigbrother0074> what is gnoppix?
[05:22] <kensai> sorry for answering late
[05:22] <nanotech> linux certs? is that a redhat thing? taboo for the ubuntu audience? :P
[05:22] <Ng> nanotech: there are loads, chances are nobody here has one though
[05:22] <krunk-> Anna: did you find it?
[05:22] <eruin> KarlosII: or rather, not sure. I haven't had a chance to test it on 4.1
[05:22] <bob2> nanotech: LPI is supposed to be distro-agnostic
[05:22] <eruin> maybe the improved protection handling has fixed it
[05:23] <krunk-> nanotech: "certs" are distro specific if at all. The best cert is the cert of hard knocks
[05:23] <nanotech> heh...i know that there's loads out there...but i was hopeing to find some sugestions, or repositories
[05:23] <Ng> Mithrandir: can I force the i386 deb to install somehow?
[05:23] <bob2> Mithrandir: "anything missing"
[05:23] <bob2> Mithrandir: erk
[05:23] <nanotech> krunk :P
[05:23] <Anna> No, even if it's there I haven't found it, but I'll just google for. I can't concentrate now as I'm PISSED, so, I'll just cool off.. thanks
[05:23] <gruberman> Argh, Ao works in linux with cedega? And I canelled my account :/
[05:23] <bob2> Mithrandir: someone was complaining about it not containing the alsa libs, does that count?
[05:23] <Mithrandir> nanotech: as Ubuntu is fairly new, there is no certification process up and running.. I would imagine there'll be one at some point.
[05:23] <sihuman> i had just install ubuntu, but my xserver didn't work at the first time, i notice that there no need to do thing as root, but when i type sudo dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xfree86 he ask me for the root password , and i didn't know it ...
[05:23] <nanotech> what about ubuntu's parent distro...debian?
[05:23] <Mithrandir> bob2: yes, that counts.  File a bug :)
[05:24] <stodge> Is there a command to refresh the Gnome menu after installing an app?
[05:24] <krunk-> nanotech: you can start by reading "from boot to bash" for the basics of a unix system. Than, I find, linux from scratch is a great way to learn *how* a linux system works
[05:24] <Mithrandir> Ng: dpkg --force-architecture -i cedaga*.deb
[05:24] <Ng> sihuman: sudo asks you for your own password :)
[05:24] <bob2> sihuman: it's askign for your package
[05:24] <Ng> Mithrandir: excellent :)
[05:24] <bob2> er, password
[05:24] <nanotech> ouch...linux from scratch...:(
[05:24] <kensai> Anna: repeat with me GUSFRABA and relax then say I love Linux. and it'll be ok
[05:24] <bob2> Mithrandir: ah, well, I'll tell that dude to if he ever reappears
[05:24] <nanotech> i'll check out from bott to bash
[05:24] <krunk-> nanotech: other than that, "the advanced bash scripting tutorial" is good
[05:24] <Mithrandir> Ng: I don't recommend using --force-architecture much -- it can destroy your system if you're not careful.
[05:24] <sihuman> but it didn't work ... i ll retry , i coming back soon , thanks
[05:25] <jdub> nanotech: do the LPI, that'll be the basis for our certs
[05:25] <Ng> Mithrandir: sounds fun. presumably it'd only be likely to hose something if I'm installing something that overlaps with an i386 package?
[05:25] <nanotech> the LPI?
[05:26] <Mithrandir> Ng: correctly, so doing that to libc is _very_ stupid. :)
[05:26] <Ng> Mithrandir: haha, yes, I can see how that would be a mistake ;)
[05:26] <kensai> I have 11 gmail accounts to give any one here interested?
[05:26] <Ng> Mithrandir: is there anything I can do to help out with Ubuntu/amd64 type stuff, btw?
[05:27] <krunk-> kensai: jesus christ, you own stock?
[05:27] <kensai> LOL
[05:27] <kensai> nahh
[05:27] <Mithrandir> Ng: it might have problems with dependencies, though I hope not.
[05:28] <Mithrandir> Ng: amd64 is actually coming along fairly well, bug reports, fixes and such is, as usual, appreciated.
[05:28] <krunk-> oh wait, is ubuntu 100% debian compat? or is it limited to ubuntu repositories?
[05:28] <Ng> Mithrandir: cool, I'll keep an eye on bugzilla then :)
[05:28] <jdub> krunk-: we discourage mixing repos,
[05:28] <bob2> krunk-: you can probably use debian packages on it, but it's not supported
[05:28] <kensai> krunk-: I've installed debian apps and they work properly
[05:29] <jdub> krunk-: because, ideally, everything should be available in universe, built against ubuntu
[05:29] <kensai> but gtk-gnutella doesn't work
[05:29] <krunk-> jdub: ok, see I tried xandros. their devs have really done a bang up job, but they've customised so that using straight debs break things...and they're package selection is extremembly crippled, e.g., no firefox, evolution, etc.
[05:30] <jdub> krunk-: that's why we have universe
[05:30] <kensai> which p2p is good for debian?
[05:30] <nanotech> nicotine
[05:30] <nanotech> werd.
[05:31] <nanotech> it's the linux equalv of soulseek
[05:31] <kensai> I just have azureus and thats more like an ftp
[05:31] <nanotech> wich i've been on for years
[05:31] <krunk-> azureus is awsome
[05:31] <kensai> is nicotine in apt?
[05:31] <nanotech> yes
[05:31] <kensai> yeah I use azureus for everything
[05:31] <nanotech> i dont' know how to dl...complie...install packages...
[05:32] <Gmail> so when is hoary going to have stuff in its branch?
[05:32] <kensai> in which network is nicotin based?
[05:32] <nanotech> in wich netwrok?
[05:32] <nanotech> soulseek
[05:32] <kensai> gnutella, fasttrack, e-donkey?
[05:32] <nanotech> independant of kazaa
[05:33] <bob2> Gmail: /topic
[05:33] <kensai> soulseek is a diff network?
[05:33] <nanotech> it's indepentand of all
[05:33] <nanotech> yes
[05:33] <kensai> Kool but have many files>?
[05:33] <nanotech> initally engineered to trade abstract electronic abulms not normally found on those nets
[05:33] <kensai> Ohh
[05:33] <nanotech> kensai...no. i legally own all my data
[05:34] <kensai> don't understand what you are trying to say
[05:34] <nanotech> get nicotine...that's what i'm saying
[05:35] <kensai> Ohh
[05:35] <nanotech> it's it's own net
[05:35] <kensai> how I do that *kensai notes he don't know how to do this
[05:35] <kensai> ?
[05:35] <Mithrandir> kensai: /me <foo>
[05:35] <nanotech> daniels, not at all...because i'm about to ask how to install /compile code
 is suposed to be?
[05:35] <Elim> help im using a live cd to backup data on a destroyed install but the 10 mb connection is transfering at like 32kb how do i speed it up?
[05:36] <Mithrandir> kensai: whatever you do.
[05:36] <Mithrandir> kensai: so /me notes he doesn't know how to do this
[05:36] <Mithrandir> for instance.
[05:36] <nanotech> off to read up on make install, and configure
[05:36] <Moof> Elim: hdparm is probably what you're after..
[05:36] <nanotech> and creating my own packages
[05:36] <Elim> what is it?
[05:36] <Moof> oh
[05:36] <Moof> wait, no
[05:36] <Moof> might be what you're after
[05:36] <nanotech> there's this secure relay chat prog i'd liek to package for ubuntu
[05:37] <kensai> which is best bithx or irssi?
[05:38] <Elim> hdparm is about configuring cdroms/hard drives
[05:38] <Elim> :S why do i need this?
[05:38] <kensai> Is there anyway to make ubuntu boot faster
[05:38] <kensai> ?
[05:38] <ermina> Hi there
[05:38] <Mithrandir> kensai: it's the obvious solution, at least: get a faster computer. :)
[05:39] <kensai> Nope because mandrake boots faster than ubuntu
[05:39] <ermina> anybody knows how to modify gnome menu ??
[05:39] <bob2> ermina: applications:/// in nautilus
[05:40] <Gmail> bob2: in other word when is it going to be ready for use?
[05:40] <kensai> Is just that ubuntu load many things not needed at boot time
[05:40] <kensai> Like Raid devices which I don't use
[05:41] <jdub> kensai: those aren't the slow bits
[05:41] <jdub> kensai: in fact, they're basically no-ops
[05:41] <jdub> the slow bit is hotplug
[05:41] <sihuman> ubuntu r0x :)
[05:41] <kensai> so which are?
[05:41] <jdub> which we're going to work on for hoary
[05:41] <sparkes> Gmail, don't attempt to install hoary, read the subject title, it you install there will be a mass resination of developers
[05:41] <kensai> Yeah UBUNTU freaking Rock!!!!
[05:41] <bob2> Gmail: when is *what* going to be ready?
[05:41] <bob2> Gmail: hoary?
[05:41] <Gmail> hoary
[05:41] <daniels> Gmail: hoary will be ready for use when we say 'hoary is ready for use'
[05:42] <Gmail> when will it be usable
[05:42] <daniels> Gmail: right now, hoary is not ready for use
[05:42] <Gmail> daniels: i know /topic says that
[05:42] <kensai> isn't hoary planned for testingin december?
[05:42] <jdub> it'll be ready for testing before then
[05:42] <jdub> at the moment it's going through syncing insanity
[05:42] <daniels> Gmail: yes, well the topic does not lie
[05:43] <Gmail> like now jdub?
[05:43] <daniels> Gmail: it will be ready for testing when the merge is finished
[05:43] <daniels> right now, the merge is not finished.
[05:43] <Gmail> crap my mirror went down
[05:44] <ermina> thanks bob2
[05:44] <Gmail> mirror.isp.net.au/ubuntu is dead
[05:44] <kensai> do the ubuntu devs changed in some ways the debian installer?
[05:44] <Mithrandir> kensai: yes
[05:44] <agenteo> I've got a problem while tring to mount the floppy, the system tells /dev/fd0 does not exist... actually it does not exist :-) but it was there... I don't know why now it doesn't work...
[05:44] <jdub> Gmail: um, didn't we just say "no, it's not ready now"?
[05:44] <daniels> Gmail: i'm sure that mirror will be back up eventually
[05:45] <kensai> is it right if my ram is 512 to have a swap partition of 512?
[05:45] <Gmail> jdub: i didnt change to hoary
[05:45] <Gmail> i am using warty its just the server went down
[05:46] <edwardam> Is there a net install for Ubuntu?
[05:49] <agenteo> founded: mknod /dev/fd0 b 2 0 :-)
[05:53] <kensai> which is the distro that has been on your desktop for the mos time and how much time?
[05:53] <kensai> I plan ubuntu to stay for me like 6 months
[05:54] <kensai> then use hoary hedgehog so I will not change from distro anymore
[05:55] <kensai> Kool thing is that hoary hedgehog will use xorg
[05:56] <LinuxJones> Can the Live CD be installed to hd using the Morphix Installer ?
[05:56] <Gmail> Rank  	Distribution  	H.P.D*
[05:56] <Gmail> 1 	Mandrakelinux 	1598<
[05:56] <Gmail> 2 	Fedora 	1340<
[05:56] <Gmail> 3 	SUSE 	1123<
[05:56] <Gmail> 4 	Ubuntu 	1100<
[05:56] <delire> Gmail: the ubuntu packages server?
[05:56] <izaac> cool
[05:56] <delire> Gmail: "went down"?
[05:57] <Gmail> manbrake just had a offical final releast
[05:57] <kensai> UBuntu was #3 two days ago
[05:57] <Gmail> delire: yes one of the mirrors
[05:57] <delire> Gmail: which mirror?
[05:57] <Gmail> but SuSE had an offical resest 2 days
[05:57] <Gmail> *ago
[05:57] <Gmail> delire: isp.net.au
[05:58] <delire> ok doesn't affect me (about to install two systems)
[05:58] <bob2> LinuxJones: just use the normal cd if you want to install
[05:58] <stvn> delire: finally ;)
[05:58] <jordi> hey dudes
[05:58] <Gmail> SuSE 2 days ago was 878 HPD