[09:11] <HonP> Hi, could i ask what this says?
[09:11] <HonP> http://pastebin.com/5xJdQr85
[09:57] <zzarr> hello! will it be possible to port Ubuntu to a Android phone or tablet running Android 6 or 7 if one have the binary blob?
[09:58] <zzarr> I mean, I know it's possible now in theory, but I mean automatically
[11:08] <luxpir_> created a chroot to run CLI software in - it's great. but I'm bumping up against space restrictions quite a lot, having the chroot in my home dir. I could move it to the SD card but have concern about performance/longeivity. Otherwise what can I remove from the chroot (vivid) to slim it down a few hundred meg?
[11:08] <luxpir_> Running ncdu shows the lang packs take up the majority of the space. Are these safe to rm?
[14:43] <Tims_Tech> Can someone help me build ubuntu touch from a cm11 source?
[14:50] <dobey> luxpir_: you can put the chroot on SD instead and it should be fine. might be a little slower depending on how much disk i/o you need to hit with it. you can probably uninstall langpacks you don't need and gui bits from the chroot if you don't need them, too
[15:05] <Acou_Bass> arent the chroots fairly minimal anyway? i wasnt really sure to be honest
[15:09] <dobey> Acou_Bass: grabbing the vivid-preinstalled tarball that is used for the phone image itself isn't really minimal no. it has unity8 and all the langpackas for the phone, along the system apps like browser and system settings
[15:10] <Acou_Bass> what, the libertine containers?? wow, thought theyd be much smaller than that hehe
[15:10] <dobey> no
[15:10] <dobey> making your own chroot and creating a libertine container are not the same thing
[15:10] <Acou_Bass> ohh right
[15:11] <Acou_Bass> i assumed he meant libertine containers :P
[15:11] <dobey> but libertine containers have Xorg and stuff too, because it's meant for running legacy X apps
[15:11] <Acou_Bass> thats it, i sort of thought they were minimal 'by default' but then when you install for example libreoffice its obviously gonna pull in the Xorg stuff
[15:12] <bregma> libertine containers are minimal
[15:12] <bregma> they on;y have Xlib when it gets pulled in as a dependency
[15:12] <Acou_Bass> right
[15:14] <Acou_Bass> i have no idea how most of this stuff works to be honest, i just take it for granted that it does :P BUT, in the future would it be possible to (for example) use snappy to install a Xorg app under mir and have it launch in the same sort of way libertine-contained apps do?
[15:14] <Acou_Bass> i mean, snaps are 'self-contained' anyway arent they?
[15:16] <dobey> bregma: doesn't libertine always install matchbox by default, and thus at least matchbox+Xorg are always installed?
[15:16] <dobey> at least, that's what it seemed like when i created a new empty container
[15:16] <dobey> Acou_Bass: no, not in the future. it already works that way
[15:17] <Acou_Bass> ahhh right ;D
[15:17] <Acou_Bass> but snaps jst arent available on ubuntu touch yet are they? still uses .click
[15:17] <Acou_Bass> but when ubuntu touch 'makes the switch' to snappy, we will be able to do away with this libertine container thing and just use snaps?
[15:17] <dobey> ie a unity7 snap under unity8 session, is run with xmir
[15:17] <dobey> from the app launcher any way
[15:18] <dobey> well you can't use snaps for things that aren't packaged as snaps
[15:18] <Acou_Bass> right
[15:18] <Acou_Bass> but presumably as snappy becomes bigger lmore things will be packaged as such ;D
[15:18] <Acou_Bass> ive already seen the amount of snaps available, pretty awesome how quick its taken off
[15:19] <dobey> but sure, you should be able to run liberoffice under the unity8 session today, from a snap, on a xenial+overlay install on x86 somewhere
[15:19] <Acou_Bass> cool
[15:19] <Acou_Bass> so all it really would take to do it on a phone, is a 'libreoffice ARM snap' ?
[15:19] <dobey> most of the snaps in the store are cli tools or server things, really
[15:19] <Acou_Bass> and obviously for snappy to be available on the phone
[15:20] <Acou_Bass> and that would run libreoffice under Xmir on the phone, confined in a similar way to a libertine container/regular Mir app?
[15:21] <bregma> yes
[15:21] <Acou_Bass> thats pretty awesome
[15:21] <Acou_Bass> i mean... *in a way* i like the current libertine method purely because it shows a clear seperation between 'real' phone apps and 'legacy' ones, so no one is under any illusion that they will be a true native experience or whatevr
[15:22] <Acou_Bass> but at the same time, its a bit clunky and so i would really love to see it streamlined into the 'snappy way' i just said ;D
[15:23] <bregma> a snap running on a Mir server like Unity 8 will still use XMir, and there will still be confinement that needs to be mediated, but it should be pretty much invisible to the end-user
[15:23] <Acou_Bass> yeah
[15:23] <bregma> also, the same snap should "just work" on Unity 7, which makes both testing and transition to Unity 8 easier
[15:24] <Acou_Bass> thats it... in a very small way im not sure 'invisible to the end-user' is a good thing for the phone (its great for desktop though), because it means Joe Average might install 'libreoffice ARM snap' and expect a slick phone app with fancy convergence magic, and instead he gets libreoffice squished onto his little 5" phone screen and the ugly default GTK theme :P
[15:26] <Acou_Bass> whereas if you do it 'the libertine way' you sort of know what youre getting yourself into and accept it wont be a 'true' native app etc.
[16:36] <luxpir_> thanks dobey, will slim down the chroot and pop it on SD
[18:09] <AlexMex90> Hi, I need some help with my Nexus 4. The sound indicator is not working and I have no audio, is there a way to get it to work again without rebooting? I would appreciate it :)
[18:10] <AlexMex90> also, for some reason the calendar displays two November 6's
[18:19] <AlexMex90> hello?
[18:23] <Acou_Bass> AlexMex90: is it a newly-flashed device?
[18:25] <AlexMex90> No, I have been using it for like 2 or 3 months
[18:25] <AlexMex90> the sound indicator just died I wasn't even playing audio
[18:26] <dobey> AlexMex90: do you have terminal app installed?
[18:27] <AlexMex90> yes
[18:27] <dobey> AlexMex90: you can run "restart indicator-sound" to restart the indicator
[18:27] <AlexMex90> d'oh, I should have tried something like that. I will try
[18:28] <Acou_Bass> hmm weird, and this just started happening recently? the sound indicator issue?
[18:28] <Acou_Bass> 0,o
[18:28] <Acou_Bass> im not sure what to make of that xD thats odd
[18:28] <Acou_Bass> and does it come back if you reboot and then die afterwards? or is it just permanently gone
[18:29] <dobey> sounds like it crashed, or maybe pulseaudio or something did
[18:29] <AlexMex90> when I run "restart indicator-sound" it says "restart: Unknown instance:"
[18:29] <AlexMex90> it comes back after rebooting, but from time to time it dies
[18:29] <AlexMex90> and I haven't found any concrete way of triggering
[18:29] <dobey> try just "start indicator-sound" then
[18:29] <AlexMex90> it may die if I am playing video or music, or it may suddenly die
[18:30] <dobey> i guess restart might fail if it's not actually running
[18:30] <AlexMex90> sometimes after rebooting it does start at all
[18:30] <AlexMex90> lemme see
[18:30] <dobey> i wonder if maybe something is wrong with your phone hardware. definitely never seen that on my nexus 4, nor on my nexus 5 even
[18:31] <AlexMex90> I don't know, it worked fine with cyanogenmod before and most of the time it works perfectly in Ubuntu
[18:32] <AlexMex90> with start indicator-sound apparently the process starts ok, but the indicator is not working yet: "indicator-sound stop/start, process 18924"
[18:32] <dobey> it doesn't re-appear?
[18:33] <AlexMex90> no, where it should be in the top bar I only see a gear with the text "indicator-sound"
[18:33] <dobey> sounds like a deeper problem than just the indicator then
[18:34] <AlexMex90> apparently it dies right after starting it
[18:34] <dobey> what channel are you on?
[18:34] <AlexMex90> stable
[18:34] <dobey> odd. i don't think there's been any changes to the sound bits for a while really
[18:35] <AlexMex90> is there any kind of log?
[18:36] <dobey> yes. you can check dmesg or syslog perhaps
[18:36] <dobey> and there are logs for user session bits under ~/.cache/upstart/
[18:37] <AlexMex90> I will give them a look, give me one sec.
[18:39] <AlexMex90> is there any difference to use the bq aquaris e4.5 stable channel over the regular stable channel in the nexus4? I have read that with that channel location works better.
[18:43] <dobey> i don't know
[18:43] <dobey> location worked just fine on my nexus 5 with the ubuntu channel (there is no aquaris channel for nexus 5)
[18:44] <dobey> never used location on my nexus 4, or installed a sim in it
[18:44] <dobey> well, it worked fine when outside; if you want agps i think you need the HERE stuff
[18:46] <AlexMex90> mmmm does it change something at kernel level? or I may have hardware issues installing that?
[18:49] <AlexMex90> I ran sudo dmesg and I could not identify nothing about the indicator, I added grep sound and I only got:
[18:49] <AlexMex90> "input: apq8064-tabla-snd-card Button Jack as /devices/platform/soc-audio.0/sound/card0/input3
[18:49] <AlexMex90> and the same but with input4 at the end instead of input3
[18:52] <dobey> no, doesn't change the kernel
[18:53] <dobey> it changes the default installed apps
[18:54] <dobey> yeah, dmesg doesn't have anything about the indicator itself
[18:54] <AlexMex90> the logs in ~/.cache/upstart/ seem to be better
[18:54] <dobey> but if hardware is disappearing, it should say so in dmesg / syslog
[18:54] <dobey> if the indicator crashed, there should be something in /var/crash too
[18:55] <AlexMex90> indicator-sound-WARNING **: Name lost or unable to acquire bus.com.canonica.indicator.sound g_dbus_connection_real_closed: Remote peer vanished with error: Error receiving message: Connection reset by peer (g-io-error-quark, 44). Exiting. indicator-sound-Message: service.vala:219: scroll: 1
[18:56] <AlexMex90> pretty much it says that multiple times and the line: indicator-sound-Message: service.vala:219: scroll: 1 repeats frequently
[19:00] <AlexMex90> (process:3177): indicator-sound-CRITICAL **: media_player_list_mpris_insert: assertion 'desktop_id != NULL' failed
[19:00] <AlexMex90> (process:3215): indicator-sound-WARNING **: accounts-service-access.vala:218: unable to sync volume 0.940000 to AccountsService: GDBus.Error:org.freedesktop.Accounts.Error.PermissionDenied: Authentication is required
[19:01] <dobey> weird
[19:01] <AlexMex90> pretty much it does this cycle:
[19:01] <AlexMex90> indicator-sound stop/pre-start, process 3325  (process:3462): AccountsService-WARNING **: ActUserManager: user (null) has no username (object path: /org/freedesktop/Accounts/User32011, uid: 0)  (process:3411): indicator-sound-WARNING **: Name lost or unable to acquire bus: com.canonical.indicator.sound g_dbus_connection_real_closed: Remote peer vanished with error: Error receiving message: Connection reset by peer (g-io-err
[19:01] <AlexMex90> indicator-sound-CRITICAL **: media_player_list_mpris_insert: assertion 'desktop_id != NULL' failed
[19:01] <AlexMex90> and then it dies
[19:04] <dobey> AlexMex90: did you do something like try to change the username for the default user on the device? did you remount / as writable and install stuff?
[19:05] <AlexMex90> no, I havent changed the username. I did not remount / I installed openstore and tried some stuff from it, but this has happened before doing that so I don't think is related
[19:06] <dobey> ok, well it seems like more is going on than just indicator-sound disappearing
[19:06] <AlexMex90> should I report it as a bug?
[19:08] <dobey> sure, though i don't know what against exactly.
[19:09] <AlexMex90> that is a good question.
[19:14] <pmcgowan> dobey, I wonder if its the lock file issue again
[19:20] <AlexMex90> what is that issue?
[19:22] <dobey> pmcgowan: i doubt it, indicator-sound isn't using qt
[19:23] <dobey> pmcgowan: it's written in vala
[19:23] <pmcgowan> yeah something else
[19:23] <pmcgowan> there are a couple old bugs like this
[19:23] <pmcgowan> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/indicator-sound/+bug/1432689 and https://bugs.launchpad.net/canonical-devices-system-image/+bug/1598668
[19:23] <ubot5`> Ubuntu bug 1432689 in indicator-sound (Ubuntu) "No indicator-sound sometimes after switching language" [High,Fix released]
[19:23] <ubot5`> Ubuntu bug 1598668 in Canonical System Image "Sound indicator disapears " [Undecided,Incomplete]
[19:23] <dobey> hmm
[19:24] <AlexMex90> the second one sounds like what is happening to me
[19:25] <pmcgowan> no info there though
[19:26] <AlexMex90> i will add a comment and paste the excrept I got from the logs
[19:33] <AlexMex90> https://bugs.launchpad.net/canonical-devices-system-image/+bug/1598668/comments/2
[19:33] <ubot5`> Ubuntu bug 1598668 in Canonical System Image "Sound indicator disapears " [Undecided,Incomplete]
[19:34] <AlexMex90> i hope that helps to find out what is going on
[19:42] <AlexMex90> meanwhile, I rebooted my phone, sound is working again. and it seems like nothing was added to the log. I hope it keeps working without dying. :)
[19:50] <charles> AlexMex90, did you file a ticket about those indicator-sound error log messages?
[19:52] <AlexMex90> charles, a ticket? no, so far I have only added a comment to bug #1598668  https://bugs.launchpad.net/canonical-devices-system-image/+bug/1598668/comments/2
[19:52] <ubot5`> Ubuntu bug 1598668 in indicator-sound (Ubuntu) "Sound indicator disapears " [Undecided,Confirmed]
[19:53] <charles> uid 0, fun stuff
[19:54] <AlexMex90> root being naughty? :P
[19:55] <dobey> AlexMex90: or you tried to do "start indicator-sound" as root?
[19:56] <AlexMex90> no I didn't
[20:00] <AlexMex90> i did it with the regular user, and without sudo
[22:21] <Broy[m]> Yo
[22:39] <hya_> hi
[22:40] <hya_> there is not any snap for SDK to develops ubuntu touch apps on ubuntu snappy core that installed RPi3!?


[07:05] <oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
[07:11] <duflu> Hi oSoMoN
[07:13] <oSoMoN> hey duflu
[07:34] <jpnurmi> good morning oSoMoN, hey duflu
[07:35] <duflu> Hi jpnurmi
[07:36] <KGB-1> libgee tags a1ebcf0 Rico Tzschichholz upstream/0.20.5 * Upstream version 0.20.5 * https://salsa.debian.org/gnome-team/libgee/tags/upstream/0.20.5
[07:36] <KGB-1> libgee upstream/latest f0ccfe9 Rico Tzschichholz (5 files in 2 dirs) * Add more missing generic type arguments * https://salsa.debian.org/gnome-team/libgee/-/commit/f0ccfe9
[07:36] <KGB-1> libgee upstream/latest 7f93f22 Fabrice Fontaine gee/Makefile.am * gee/Makefile.am: include Makefile.introspection * https://salsa.debian.org/gnome-team/libgee/-/commit/7f93f22
[07:36] <KGB-1> libgee upstream/latest ebf7691 Rico Tzschichholz gee/concurrentset.vala * Add more missing generic type arguments * https://salsa.debian.org/gnome-team/libgee/-/commit/ebf7691
[07:37] <KGB-1> libgee upstream/latest ab19a43 Rico Tzschichholz NEWS configure.ac * Release 0.20.5 * https://salsa.debian.org/gnome-team/libgee/-/commit/ab19a43
[07:37] <KGB-1> libgee upstream/latest 8c0c6e7 Rico Tzschichholz (140 files in 5 dirs) * New upstream version 0.20.5 * https://salsa.debian.org/gnome-team/libgee/-/commit/8c0c6e7
[07:37] <KGB-1> libgee pristine-tar e3623e0 Rico Tzschichholz libgee-0.8_0.20.5.orig.tar.xz.delta libgee-0.8_0.20.5.orig.tar.xz.id * pristine-tar data for libgee-0.8_0.20.5.orig.tar.xz * https://salsa.debian.org/gnome-team/libgee/-/commit/e3623e0
[07:39] <oSoMoN> good morning jpnurmi
[07:59] <seb128> goood morning desktopers
[08:00] <duflu> Hi seb128
[08:00] <duflu> Thanks for the gdm3 fix
[08:00] <duflu> I'm keenly awaiting the daily image
[08:00] <seb128> np!
[08:03] <didrocks> good morning
[08:04] <duflu> Morning didrocks
[08:04] <didrocks> hey duflu
[09:08] <oSoMoN> salut seb128, didrocks
[09:08] <didrocks> salut oSoMoN
[09:11] <seb128> lut oSoMoN, didrocks, duflu, how are you?
[09:11] <didrocks> salut seb128, ça va, et toi ?
[09:12] <duflu> seb128, town hall... but great. Last night I was very unwell but today is great
[09:13] <oSoMoN> seb128, I'm good, I managed to sleep enough, for a change :) How are you?
[09:14] <seb128> duflu, :-( for yesterday but nice to hear you feel better today!
[09:14] <seb128> I'm alright, but no school today due to sick teacher so another day with distractions...
[09:16] <oSoMoN> not fun :/
[11:06] <didrocks> tjaalton: hey, FYI I opened and assigned you to https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libxcvt/+bug/1960500
[11:08] <tjaalton> didrocks: ok, thanks
[11:24] <ricotz> hello desktopers!
[13:05] <tjaalton> didrocks: "the package must include a non-trivial test suite".. yeah right
[13:06] <jbicha> morning
[14:54] <KGB-2> gnome-shell-extension-desktop-icons-ng pristine-tar 6d9a8a3 Gunnar Hjalmarsson gnome-shell-extension-desktop-icons-ng_39.orig.tar.gz.delta gnome-shell-extension-desktop-icons-ng_39.orig.tar.gz.id * pristine-tar data for gnome-shell-extension-desktop-icons-ng_39.orig.tar.gz * https://deb.li/3POTy
[14:55] <KGB-2> gnome-shell-extension-desktop-icons-ng upstream/latest bfefee6 Gunnar Hjalmarsson * pushed 35 commits (first 5 follow) * https://deb.li/5XYG
[14:55] <KGB-2> gnome-shell-extension-desktop-icons-ng upstream/latest 25161d7 Sergio Costas HISTORY.md fileItemMenu.js * Updated HISTORY.md and little cleanup * https://deb.li/3nFOM
[14:55] <KGB-2> gnome-shell-extension-desktop-icons-ng upstream/latest ea4d134 Sergio Costas po/ru.po * Updated Russian translation (original from Ser82-png) * https://deb.li/cFf1
[14:55] <KGB-2> gnome-shell-extension-desktop-icons-ng upstream/latest d31ed9d Sergio Costas desktopGrid.js * Fix margins * https://deb.li/3GB3N
[14:55] <KGB-2> gnome-shell-extension-desktop-icons-ng upstream/latest 7680773 Sergio Costas desktopGrid.js * Merge branch 'fix_margins' into 'master' * https://deb.li/PcMz
[14:55] <KGB-2> gnome-shell-extension-desktop-icons-ng upstream/latest e6392f4 Sergio Costas po/ (29 files) * Updated PO files * https://deb.li/3JXRs
[14:56] <KGB-2> gnome-shell-extension-desktop-icons-ng tags 1777585 Gunnar Hjalmarsson upstream/39 * Upstream version 39 * https://deb.li/3wcBV
[17:17] <juliank> ok so my laptop internal display does not get its night light enabled
[17:17] <juliank> it was off during boot
[17:17] <juliank> I just switched to it from the external one which had night light
[17:17] <juliank> this is in wayland
[17:18] <juliank> how would I get nightlight working
[17:18] <juliank> or color profiles, they are not applied either it seems
[17:18] <juliank> and what would I even search for when reporting a bug for it
[17:19] <juliank> "Colour profiles and night light not enabled when enabling disabled output" maybe
[17:20] <juliank> suspend & resume did not fix it :(
[17:27] <juliank> Logout helped, also GNOME on Xorg session is broken :D
[19:09] <juliank> So power-profiles-daemon can't autoswitch to performance on AC and back to balanced on battery, right?
[20:41] <seb128> juliank, that's basically https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/hadess/power-profiles-daemon/-/issues/84 right?
[20:42] <juliank> seb128: yup
[20:42] <seb128> seems like upstream isn't interested...
[20:43] <juliank> Yeah
[20:43] <juliank> I just notice my laptop gets somewhat laggy sometimes and can be happier in performance mode
[20:44] <juliank> But also it's gonna get replaced later this year with more powerful hardware :)
[20:44] <juliank> Waiting/Hoping for a sweet Ryzen 6000 ThinkPad T14s
[20:46] <seb128> juliank, it's not really a decision the system can take for you though
[20:47] <seb128> juliank, the new shell version that landed recently provides an indicator interface to change the profile so it should be easy to access
[20:47] <juliank> It is yes
[20:48] <seb128> juliank, also we have gamemoded preinstalled which games use to auto switch to performance mode
[20:48] <seb128> ideally that would be integrated in power-profiles-daemon
[20:48] <juliank> I wouldn't consider Chrome a game :)
[20:48] <seb128> an API apps can use to request performance mode
[20:49] <juliank> To be fair Tidal JS was using half a core, that made it laggy
[20:49] <juliank> CPU was clocking up to 1 GHz ish only
[20:49] <juliank> :)
[20:49] <seb128> it's a tradeoff though
[20:49] <seb128> if you are working outside on battery without charger you might not want chrome to be able to ruin you battery
[21:17] <seb128> jbicha, hey, could you explain why NO_AT_BRIDGE=1 is needed for gspell now?
[21:18] <seb128> jbicha, it was building fine earlier in the cycle without a need for that, it feels like something regressed and that we should fix it at the right place rather than workarounding it in impacted packages?
[21:20] <jbicha> seb128: see LP: #1960458 you were pinged yesterday in #ubuntu-devel about it but maybe it was too late in the day
[21:22] <jbicha> I feel like I had seen similar warnings/errors before December sometimes when using sbuild from my running Ubuntu desktop
[21:22] <seb128> jbicha, my computer was off at this time :)
[21:22] <jbicha> lol
[21:23] <seb128> thanks for the reference, your salsa commit for gspell pointed out to the build page on launchpad but not to that report
[21:23] <seb128> well the bug doesn't explain more what the fix is doing though
[21:23] <seb128> it still feels like a regression in at-spi
[21:45] <jbicha> I don't have the problem when building for Debian so I guess that socket patch just isn't compatible with the way dh_auto_test works by default, at least in sbuild
[21:46] <seb128> jbicha, I don't think it's the default, I added a note upstream on https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/at-spi2-core/-/issues/43#note_1380541
[21:48] <seb128> jbicha, removing the HOME= hack in the rules make it build
[21:50] <jbicha> seb128: I dropped the HOME thing in gpsell 1.9.1-4 but I get the build failure without the NO_AT_BRIDGE hack https://salsa.debian.org/gnome-team/gspell/-/blob/debian/master/debian/rules
[21:50] <seb128> jbicha, weird, removing it locally I get a failed test ERROR:test-checker.c:111:test_dashes: 'correctly_spelled' should be TRUE
[21:50] <seb128> but not the other errors
[21:53] <seb128> that's for another day, at least I added my notes upstream


[00:00] <Balsaq> is it plug n play?
[00:00] <Sysi> varies what you mean
[00:00] <Sysi> flash is pretty easy to install etc
[00:01] <knome> flash is easy to install even in ubuntu
[00:01] <Sysi> little bit easier than in fedora actuallu
[00:02] <Sysi> i don't care much, both are still lot easier than windows
[00:02] <Sysi> and more userfriendly than os x
[00:02] <Sysi> maybe time to go to bed, 2am
[00:03] <Balsaq> i still like xubu the best so far
[00:03] <Balsaq> fast...
[00:03] <Sysi> f11 was faster than jaunty
[00:03] <Balsaq> gotta  go buy some more speakers...
[00:04] <Sysi> np: Slayer - Hate Worldwide
[00:06] <Balsaq> mint is the best if you are brand new to linux...
[00:06] <Sysi> ubuntu is not hard
[00:07] <Balsaq> true...but mint is velvety smmmooooottttthhhhh
[00:08] <Balsaq> i like the green thing
[00:11] <Penguino> I must try Mint
[00:11] <Penguino> What's the XFCE ver of Mint?
[00:18] <Balsaq> i dont know?
[00:18] <Balsaq> its really cool
[00:18] <Balsaq> gonna run tothe store for some speakers for this...
[00:20] <Balsaq> knome are you home from work?
[00:22] <knome> Balsaq, hah, for a long time. it's 2:22am :D
[00:22] <Balsaq> 722 pm here
[00:22] <knome> yeah. i wish it was that time here as well
[00:23] <Balsaq> where are you from knome
[00:23] <knome> i hvae to get up at 7am
[00:23] <knome> finland
[00:23] <Balsaq> wow eveyone is from Finland!
[00:23] <Balsaq> uh oh 7 am?
[00:24] <knome> mm-hm
[00:24] <Balsaq> well we won't have you here much longer huh
[00:24] <knome> depends
[00:25] <knome> i'm in a winning streak against bugs in wordpress plugin
[00:25] <Balsaq> i see...
[00:26] <Balsaq> yuk...my screen is vibrating, hope i diidn't run into a problem....(updates coming in)
[00:26] <Balsaq> 266 updates in about 10 minutes!
[00:27] <knome> heh
[00:27] <Balsaq> wonder what that screenvibrate thing is?
[00:28] <knome> no idea
[00:28] <Balsaq> rebooting hoping it goes away
[00:28] <Balsaq> may be hardware isse
[00:28] <Balsaq> monitor issue
[00:28] <Balsaq> figures i didnt run my dell diagnostics on this one 1st....
[00:29] <Balsaq> yup got issue rebooting and i see the vibration again
[00:34] <Balsaq> runs nice on 2.4 p4, 60 g hd, 512 rdram, 64mb nvidia agp....cpu@12-14%, memory at 156mib....
[00:35] <Balsaq> vibration disappeared
[00:45] <knome> time to hit the bed
[00:45] <knome> see you tomorrow
[01:06] <Balsaq> mite knome
[01:07] <Balsaq> nite....i meant
[01:21] <Balsaq> ww
[01:33] <Carlis> I need help
[01:33] <Carlis> who can help me ?
[01:34] <Carlis> I need help
[02:08] <wrgb> Carlis: I'm kinda new to Xubuntu, but what' your question
[02:46] <Balsaq> what maintenance am i supposed to do with xubuntu? i cannot much in the OS?
[02:46] <Balsaq> do i need to download filehippo ccleaner and defraggler?
[02:51] <ShaunPhilly> HI, having an issue getting my xubuntu (9.10) to see shared folders on a vista machine
[02:51] <ShaunPhilly> trying to transfer files
[03:41] <Tonno> hi to all
[03:42] <Tonno> The program GIgolo dont let me mount my disk, he say 'Authentication is required', someone can help me with it?
[07:16] <DDDDDD> Allelujja bruderz
[07:26] <DDDDDD> Sziasztok dicsoseges tesvereim
[08:12] <MikeChelen> after updating 9.04 -> 9.10, all panels are gone, and settings -> panels doesn't load
[08:38] <aigon> xubuntu 9.10 doesn't recognise my sound card. What can i do to fix this problem?
[09:37] <aigon> Why I get this message when I run sudo alsaconf on xununtu 9.10?
[09:37] <aigon> sudo: alsaconf: command not found
[09:38] <TheSheep> because there is no such command
[09:40] <aigon> How to configure alsa then?
[09:51] <TheSheep> it's configured automatically
[09:54] <aigon> why my sound does not work?
[09:54] <TheSheep> aigon: I don't know
[09:55] <TheSheep> aigon: what are you doing wrong?
[11:32] <MoonTiger> hi guys :)
[11:33] <Balsaq> welcome MoonTiger
[11:33] <MoonTiger> can anyone tell me if the final release version of xubuntu karmic is any different to the rc with updates applied?
[11:38] <MoonTiger> anyone?
[11:38] <MoonTiger> :)
[11:38] <Balsaq> haven't looked inti that yet MT
[11:38] <Balsaq> enjoyed current 904 so much i almost hate to cjange
[11:39] <MoonTiger> oh ok ... i was just wondering if i should re-install fresh from the final version
[11:39] <Balsaq> change*
[11:39] <MoonTiger> i hear u on that
[11:39] <MoonTiger> for me the new hardware support is worth it
[11:40] <Balsaq> its like i just took the IE8 on my windows computer...and it casued me a few issues and was having no issues at all with IE7
[11:40] <Balsaq> tell me about the new hardware support
[11:41] <MoonTiger> well i have a thinkpad t500 that has some newer hardware like ATI graphics cards and sound cards that weren't so good on jaunty
[11:41] <MoonTiger> on karmic they work great
[11:41] <MoonTiger> it is a better release AFTER you revert back to GDM 2.20 imho
[11:41] <Balsaq> yeah i experienced the ati thing on an older computer i have...that whole ati thing was a real pain
[11:42] <Balsaq> i still haven't got any of my linux/buntu compputeres going with wireless yet
[11:42] <MoonTiger> really??
[11:42] <MoonTiger> what wireless cards do u have?
[11:42] <Balsaq> yeah i kinda gave up early....
[11:43] <Balsaq> is it easy to do?...maybe it was jus the particular adapter i have...they couldnt even get me done in the channel "wireless"
[11:43] <Balsaq> verizon couldnt figure it either
[11:44] <MoonTiger> it just works out of the box for every machine ive had in the last 4yrs
[11:44] <Balsaq> what am i doing wrong?
[11:44] <MoonTiger> ahhhhh u mean usb wireless broadband thru verizon?
[11:44] <Balsaq> i tried about 15 of their drivers
[11:44] <Balsaq> yes
[11:44] <Balsaq> usb verizon
[11:44] <Balsaq> it works great on my xp computer
[11:44] <MoonTiger> hmmmmmmm well ive used my phone as a bluetooth and usb modem with zero problems
[11:45] <MoonTiger> and ive usd usb wifi adapters with no problems
[11:45] <Balsaq> on buntu?
[11:45] <MoonTiger> yes
[11:45] <MoonTiger> try burning  a live cd of karmic and seeing what happens when u plug ur adapter in
[11:46] <MoonTiger> i would be astonished if it didnt work
[11:46] <Balsaq> so whats the deal? i stick te flippen adapter in a usb and try all the drivers and thats is right?
[11:46] <MoonTiger> no
[11:46] <Balsaq> ?
[11:46] <MoonTiger> it should judt detect it
[11:46] <MoonTiger> and work
[11:46] <Balsaq> never detected it ever
[11:46] <MoonTiger> you add a mobile broadband connection and voila
[11:46] <Balsaq> i was waiting for that assumed that was going to happen
[11:46] <MoonTiger> right click on network manager and say edit
[11:47] <Balsaq> well lets see what mine is...
[11:47] <MoonTiger> edit connections sorry
[11:47] <MoonTiger> then add a mobile braodband connection with the right username yadayadayada
[11:47] <MoonTiger> and off you go
[11:47] <Balsaq> whats the yadyadya thing?
[11:47] <MoonTiger> it means "fill in your details where you have to"
[11:47] <MoonTiger> ;)
[11:48] <Balsaq> i have G USB with speedbooster by linksys
[11:48] <MoonTiger> should be fine
[11:48] <Balsaq> i called them and they sais no way on linux
[11:48] <MoonTiger> really?
[11:48] <Balsaq> sais=said
[11:48] <Balsaq> yup
[11:49] <MoonTiger> so they locked it down to windows only?
[11:49] <Balsaq> they say no driver/support
[11:49] <Balsaq> ?
[11:49] <MoonTiger> i would buy another brand for $30 or so
[11:49] <Balsaq> verizon said the same
[11:49] <Balsaq> so iwent into the driver section and starte trying them all
[11:49] <Balsaq> yes i am going to
[11:49] <Balsaq> ill leave this one my xp box anyway
[11:50] <MoonTiger> honestly i think the only way to make these nimrods get with the plot is to ignore their hardware if it doesn't work with linux
[11:50] <Balsaq> i cant remember if i tried the edit connection route
[11:50] <Balsaq> yeah really piszes me off
[11:50] <MoonTiger> thats why i but thinkpads
[11:50] <MoonTiger> buy
[11:51] <Balsaq> i told both verizon and links to get their schidt together or i was going to cut them out
[11:51] <Balsaq> everyone is messin around with linux n ow
[11:51] <MoonTiger> right
[11:52] <Balsaq> i go into staples od best buy and all the techs are all over it
[11:52] <Balsaq> od=or
[11:52] <MoonTiger> hehe and yet MS keeps trying the lock down approach
[11:52] <MoonTiger> bunch of dinosaurs
[11:52] <Balsaq> i dedicate entire computer to it
[11:53] <MoonTiger> ok i gotta go
[11:53] <MoonTiger> go to go to the stores
[11:53] <Balsaq> later...
[11:53] <MoonTiger> laterz... good luck ;)
[11:53] <Balsaq> 10-4
[11:55] <mnemoc> hi, did the "logic" to use multihead changed in 9.10? I can't get the notebook's panel to work since i updated
[11:56] <mnemoc> it's on but black
[12:00] <mnemoc> xrandr says both are working, and at the right resolutions, the toy to change background offers both monitors, but the screen wizzard only one, the one corresponding to VGA1
[12:03] <mnemoc> may you enligthe me please? it used to work like a charm in 9.04 :(
[15:39] <k90201> hello is anyone aware of users and groups issues ... gnome users and group updates passwd file and xubuntu says it does but does not update at all
[15:42] <TheSheep> !bugs | k90201
[15:43] <k90201> i will thanks
[16:07] <lufte> hi there
[16:09] <lufte> question: how do you restore the ctrl+alt+backspace combination in xubuntu?
[16:11] <likemindead> http://www.ubuntugeek.com/how-to-enabledisable-ctrlaltbackspace-in-ubuntu-9-10-karmic.html
[16:11] <likemindead> ^-- lufte
[16:12] <subspider> hi
[16:12] <likemindead> !hi | subspider
[16:13] <lufte> I would have to choose the "command line" option, right?
[16:13] <subspider> i'm compiling a c program and it makes another file that i suppose is the executable file now i want to see te result
[16:14] <subspider> can you guys help me
[16:16] <lufte> subspider: you have to open a terminal in the file's directory and tipe ./yourprogramname
[16:16] <subspider> ok i will try
[16:16] <subspider> thnk you
[16:17] <subspider> you are the best
[16:17] <subspider> :)
[16:17] <lufte> you're welcome :)
[16:34] <Tonno> hi to all, i need help, i cant mount my disk # 2 on Xubuntu, with the program Gigolo, it say that 'Authentication is required', can someone help me out pleases?
[16:35] <Tonno> hi to all, i need help, i cant mount my disk number 2 on Xubuntu, with the program Gigolo, it say that 'Authentication is required', can someone help me out pleases?
[16:36] <Sysi> alt + f2 "gksudo gigolo"
[16:37] <Tonno> what it will do Sysi ?
[16:39] <Tonno> i tried gksudo gigolo but my hard disk is not there.
[16:54] <gnuisancev5> i am unable to do any updates on my Jaunty box.. apt-get update gives a "Failed to Fetch" line for each repo and then states "Some index files failed to download, they have been ignored, or old ones used instead.". Changing Software Sources doesn't help either. I've tried over 10 different servers now.     here's a txt file output of it. http://tuxtraining.com/files/errors
[16:56] <aigon> How to make the status hide?
[16:57] <aigon> How to make the status bar hide?
[17:17] <aigon> How to mount a ntfs partition?
[17:21] <likemindead> !ntfs
[19:16] <redcrate> can anyone tell me why audio doesn't work?
[19:17] <redcrate> work fine in 9.04, but apparently not in 9.10
[19:23] <redcrate> sound problems
[19:35] <neozen> I've found doing away with the pulse audio system to be quite workable
[19:35] <neozen> ymmv
[19:37] <redcrate> how's that neozen?
[19:37] <Laserbeak> can someone pls help?
[19:37] <Laserbeak> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=8242666#post8242666
[20:01] <subspider> hi
[20:02] <subspider> can you guys tell me how to detect my wireless divice
[20:02] <subspider> cuse it was working but i umplug it and now is not working
[20:33] <likemindead> What is it, subspider?
[20:33] <likemindead> (The chipset.)
[20:34] <subspider> my wireless mouse
[20:35] <subspider> it was working right but i had to go and i unplug the wireless pen so now when plug the pen i don't have mouse
[20:35] <likemindead> Batteries?
[20:35] <subspider> there's a way to dect it wit out restart
[20:35] <subspider> no
[20:36] <likemindead> Every wireless usb mouse I've ever used just works.
[20:36] <subspider> if i restart i'm shore it will work
[20:36] <subspider> mine was working
[20:36] <likemindead> Yup.
[20:36] <likemindead> Should be hot-plugable though.
[20:36] <subspider> it's working
[20:37] <subspider> i chage the usb port
[20:37] <subspider> what the hell
[20:37] <subspider> thnk you
[20:38] <subspider> but if i umplug and plug at same usb port it can't detect
[20:38] <subspider> strange
[20:40] <wrgb> subspider: is there a reset or connect button on the bottom of the mouse
[20:40] <subspider> no
[20:40] <subspider> my mouse don't have any bottun
[20:41] <subspider> is a pleoma
[20:41] <subspider> pleomax sorry
[20:41] <subspider> in fact is battery eater
[20:44] <wrgb> subspider: sorry, I don't know what else to check - my wireless mouse has a reset button I sometimes have to press when i plug in the usb dongle
[22:01] <Sertse> hi
[22:01] <Sertse> I'm connected to large tv/projection screen and wondering how to have it display there
[22:02] <Sertse> ??
[22:05] <Sertse> sigh
[22:53] <Pholious> Does anyone know if there is an option for the Emerald Theme Manager to show menu bars? atm it's taking away menu bars for apps like my terminal and xchat etc
[23:05] <ubuntu_> how can i install xubuntu to my jump drive?
[23:28] <aberhow> My audio isn't working properly. Is anyone else experiencing audio problems in 9.10, 9.04 was fine (mostly).
[23:29] <Penguino> Uninstalling PulseAudio was the solution for me, aberhow
[23:29] <aberhow> how do i go about doing that
[23:30] <likemindead> Ha... installing PulseAudio fixed my problems...
[23:30] <Balsaq> glad i didn'tt ake that one (9.10)
[23:30] <aberhow> yea, apparently puseaudio isn't installed on my system
[23:31] <likemindead> I'd install it then, aberhow.
[23:31] <aberhow> so just apt-get installl pulseaudio
[23:31] <aberhow> done
[23:32] <Penguino> PulseAudio was too laggy
[23:32] <Penguino> Awful perfomance on games
[23:34] <likemindead> Yeah, but I've got zero audio without PulseAudio in Xubuntu 9.10. :-\
[23:34] <aberhow> chances are i don't require its "features"
[23:41] <Balsaq> what happens if  a guy simply doesn't take 9.10....can i just keep upgrading 9.04?
[23:52] <likemindead> Balsaq, yes, every version of *buntu is supported for at least 18 months.
[23:52] <likemindead> !LTS
[23:53] <Penguino> Wow, Lucid will be the next LTS release?
[23:53] <Balsaq> so when am i cooked on 9.04?
[23:56] <likemindead> When 11.10 drops, Balsaq.
[23:56] <likemindead> (18 months after 9.04 dropped.)
[23:56] <Balsaq> oh good thanks i still have some time
[23:56] <Balsaq> its been really good too me


 I'm running Eclipse Ganymede and I'm trying to install the bzr plug-in. The plug-in itself installed fine, but step 1 in the installation instructions has me stumped: "install the bzr-xmloutput plugin" - I cannot find an Intrepid package for it. Am I missing something?
[00:49] <NfNitLoop>  owh: it's likely just a .tgz
[00:49] <NfNitLoop> which you drop into ~/.bzr/plugins
[00:49] <NfNitLoop> (unpacked)
[00:51] <owh> So, that will do it for one user. What about the other users? I'm more than a little surprised that we seem to be back to dropping files into a directory - that feels like stepping back a decade.
[00:52] <lifeless> owh: its packaged in jaunty
[00:52] <lifeless> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/bzr-xmloutput
[00:53]  * owh wonders if that will just install under Intrepid.
[00:53] <lifeless> probably it will
[00:54] <thumper> yay for the jaunty package
[00:57] <owh> Nope, it depends on python-central >= 0.6.11
[00:57] <owh> Crap
[01:04] <owh> Well, while less than orthodox, installing the latest Janty python-central + bzr-xmloutput seemed to install. How do I test to make sure it actually works?
[01:04] <lifeless> owh: bzr help plugins
[01:04] <lifeless> owh: should list xmloutput
[01:05] <owh> Magic
[01:05] <owh> Much Tah.
[01:05] <owh> Now to make it all work with Eclipse :)
[01:07]  * jelmer wished somebody packaged bzr-eclipse
[01:08] <thumper> igc: want to put two things on the eclipse list?
[01:08] <thumper> igc: package for ubuntu and windows :)
[01:10] <jelmer> thumper,igc: fwiw there is some initial work on a debian package in the pkg-bazaar bzr repository
[01:10] <jelmer> but I couldn't figure out how to build bzr-eclipse non-interactively
[01:10] <lifeless> jelmer: did you ask veterok
[01:12] <owh> Hmm, seem to be running into a problem. In the Team Synchronisation View, I click on the Synchronise Button, which brings up a dialog with synchronisation types. I chose Bazaar, and initially it told me that there was an invalid path. I pointed it at /usr/bin/bzr and it stopped complaining, but when I click Finish, nothing happens. Next is greyed out.
[01:17] <lifeless> odd
[01:17] <lifeless> uhm
[01:17] <lifeless> I have no idea :)
[01:21] <jelmer> lifeless: no
[01:21] <jelmer> lifeless: I tried out the pre-built version of bzr-eclipse but found it had to many rough edges
[01:22] <jelmer> lifeless: so froze my effort to package it
[01:22] <jelmer> that was a while ago though, it may have gotten better since
[01:23] <NfNitLoop> omg annoying voice guy won't stfu
[01:23] <lifeless> ?
[01:23] <NfNitLoop> oops wrong window.
[01:24] <NfNitLoop> sorry  :)
[01:24] <thumper> NfNitLoop: heh
[01:24] <thumper> NfNitLoop: had me laughing
[01:24] <NfNitLoop> this cellphone connection is laggy... thought i was typing elsewhere
[01:25] <owh> How do I go about figuring out why I cannot create a bzr team synchronisation in eclipse?
[01:25] <lifeless> owh: I'd love to help you but I don't know enough about eclipse
[01:25] <lifeless> owh: make sure have the eclipse version the bzr-eclipse page talks about
[01:26] <owh> I do, 3.4.1 which is >= 3.3
[01:27] <lifeless> isn't that incompatible? I seem to recall a different build of the eclipse plugin being needed
[01:37] <owh> Seems to be working. That's a 'feature' not a bug :)
[01:38] <owh> Not that I like the word "seems" in a development environment, but backups are there for a reason :)
[03:07] <lifeless> trace generates _very_ odd results sometimes
[03:07] <meoblast001> hi
[03:15] <lifeless> hmm, could be decorators messing it up
[03:34] <igc> hi all
[03:36] <lifeless> hi igc
[03:37] <igc> hi lifeless
[04:02] <thumper> hi edcrypt
[04:02] <edcrypt> thumper hi
[04:03] <thumper> edcrypt: I haven't looked at the source yet, but I have a couple of comments on the readme :)
[04:03] <thumper> edcrypt: although first a question
[04:03] <thumper> edcrypt: for the init-workspace, you have the sandbox outside the repo
[04:03] <thumper> edcrypt: why?
[04:03] <thumper> edcrypt: I would have thought it easier to have MyProject be the shared repo
[04:03] <thumper> edcrypt: with trunk
[04:03] <thumper> edcrypt: and the sandbox checkout
[04:04] <thumper> edcrypt: then you don't have two different repo styles for --feature-branches or other
[04:04] <lifeless> I'm really concerned that all these 'make it easy by layering' approachs are just making the problem worse
[04:04] <thumper> lifeless: all problems are solvable with another layer of indirection L)
[04:05]  * thumper snickers
[04:05] <edcrypt> thumper: not big motive, it's just the layout I'm used to
[04:05] <lifeless> to fix it we need to remove the sand grains causing the issue
[04:05] <thumper> edcrypt: personally I have my lightweight checkouts outside my repo
[04:06] <thumper> edcrypt: but I think that the plugin should be simple enough to understand without having two different layouts
[04:07] <edcrypt> thumper: I think I agree.
[04:08] <thumper> I'm pretty sure that switch is smart enough now that `bzr switch feature-x` will DTRT
[04:08] <thumper> rather than `bzr switch ../feature-x`
[04:10] <lifeless> thumper: it will search in branch-root/../
[04:10] <lifeless> so yes, qualified
[04:11] <lifeless> man, it is going to take a long time to index all of bzrlibs tests
[04:11] <lifeless> why is trace.Trace so slow
[04:13] <thumper> edcrypt: also the `update-sandbox` command will do weird things if the checkout is no longer trunk
[04:17] <lifeless> 10 tests in 20 minutes
[04:17] <lifeless> 2 minutes each, 18K tests, 36K minutes :(
[04:17] <lifeless> 600 hours :(
[04:17] <lifeless> 24 days. faaaark
[04:19] <thumper> lifeless: why are you doing this?
[04:19] <spiv> lifeless: I guess that's what happens when you run python functions for every bytecode...
[04:19] <edcrypt> thumper: right. it should check that.
[04:20] <edcrypt> thumper: thanks for the feedback,
[04:20] <lifeless> spiv: wheeee
[04:20] <lifeless> thumper: I have written a plugin
[04:20] <lifeless> thumper: it indexes tests by the code they exercise
[04:20] <thumper> edcrypt: my pleasure
[04:20] <lifeless> then when you run 'bzr selftest --changes' it calculates the changed code  and looks up the relevant tests
[04:21]  * thumper nods
[04:21] <lifeless> it works, with some various caveats. I finished it up last night, but without a full index its useless; so I haven't put it out there yet
[04:33] <lifeless> spiv: possibly I should just use lsprof
[04:33] <lifeless> spiv: and extract stuff from that, but I do need the module paths
[04:33]  * lifeless will play after work
[04:35] <lifeless> jelmer: ping
[05:02]  * igc lunch
[05:09] <spm> Am getting a bzr return code of '3' from a bzr checkout - no output unf :-( Any idea what a return 3 from a bzr checkout is? My googlefu can't find a simple table of codes.
[05:09] <poolie> "failed"
[05:09] <poolie> hth :)
[05:10] <spm> poolie: not really :-D
[05:10] <poolie> is there something in ~/.bzr.log?
[05:11] <lifeless> spm: no output at all?!
[05:11] <lifeless> spm: pastebin please
[05:11] <spm> poolie: yes actually! ta. but is the generic connection failed, pls to using -Dhpss message. hmmm.
[05:11] <spm> lifeless: from the buildbot log. looks like it throws away stderr/out
[05:12] <spm> so .bzr.log has: https://pastebin.canonical.com/16383/
[05:13] <spm> builbot slave log has: https://pastebin.canonical.com/16384/ cf line 21
[05:14] <lifeless> spm: haven't looked yet but I bet 'fix your dns'
[05:14] <spm> heh
[05:14] <lifeless> we'll need stderr thats where the openssh output will have gone
[05:15] <poolie> hm i thought we removed that "please use -Dhpss" message
[05:15] <poolie> maybe he has an old bzr
[05:16] <spm> poolie: Yikes! 1.8
[05:16] <lifeless> spm: please be using something from this year
[05:17] <lifeless> spm: but I bet you a liquid refreshment that its dns
[05:17] <spm> I could really learn to hate ec2... dns seems so fragile there.
[05:23] <lifeless> igc: I don't really understand your LocalRemoteBranchTypes thing
[05:27] <igc> lifeless: give it another 30 minutes - what's there was just a 'save-before-lunch' snapshot
[05:28] <lifeless> igc: ok; if its useful I can say what confused me
[05:29] <igc> lifeless: sure, go ahead
[05:30] <lifeless> Given commonly recommended practices like feature branching, the intention when branching locally (start me a new line of development) is different to the intention when branching from a remote location (grab me my copy of that project).
[05:30] <lifeless> that was the bit that confuses me
[05:32] <lifeless> I don't know how often you grab a copy of a project without the intent of making changes; but it sure seems to me that mirroring (grab a copy) is less common than editing (get me something I will make changes to)
[05:32] <lifeless> s/you grab/one grabs/
[05:33] <lifeless> Anyhow, hope that helps; and please do think about the root cause of the issues; I don't think its accidental that we are having a lot of growing pains here - our design is broken and we need to fix it.
[05:37] <spm> lifeless: poolie: fyi. pebkac, effectively. ssh-agent fail. fixed now. ta, and sorry for the false alarm as it were.
[05:37] <lifeless> damn, I owe you water
[05:38] <spm> high quality tap water at that! No less!
[05:38] <lifeless> I shall piss in the cup myself
[05:39] <poolie> ENSFW
[05:44] <BasicOSX> I've seen NSFW, and VNSFW, what's ENSFW?
[05:44] <poolie> "error nsfw"
[05:44] <BasicOSX> extremely? ahh, ok
[07:02] <vila> hi all
[07:49] <maxb> window level all
[08:01] <wgrant> If I make a branch append-only, will the smartserver enforce that? In this case I cannot assume that the people using the branch are not malicious.
[08:06] <jelmer> lifeless: pong
[08:17] <lifeless> jelmer: see mail
[08:56] <jelmer> lifeless: push_branch also pushes to existing branches
[08:57] <jelmer> BzrDir.push_branch() will open the underlying branch if there is one
[08:59] <lifeless> jelmer: I know, thats part of the issue ;P
[09:06] <jelmer> lifeless: but you want to get at a Branch without getting at a BzrDir first?
[09:08] <jelmer> lifeless: anyway, the suggestions for the helper seem reasonable
[09:09] <jelmer> lifeless: seems a bit similar to BzrDir.open_containing_tree_branch_or_repository
[09:09] <jelmer> lifeless: ie BzrDir.open_branch_or_bzrdir()
[09:11] <lifeless> jelmer: it may create :)
[09:11] <lifeless> jelmer: look at the network trace
[09:12] <jelmer> lifeless: so basically, the only thing I can't do is a create without a push
[09:12] <jelmer> lifeless: which trace?
[09:13] <lifeless> the one in my mail
[09:15]  * igc dinner
[09:19] <jml> how do you deloomify a branch?
[09:20] <lifeless> jml: bzr export-loom
[09:20] <jml> meh
[09:20] <jml> ok, what I really meant was, how can I make this error go away? TypeError: open() got an unexpected keyword argument 'ignore_fallbacks'
[09:21] <lifeless> upgrade your loom plugin with aaron's patch
[09:21] <jml> thanks.
[10:50] <jelmer> re
[13:27] <LarstiQ> wgrant: it certainly should if they are using the smartserver to access it
[13:31] <LarstiQ> is there a jaunty user around that could test https://edge.launchpad.net/~bzr-beta-ppa/+archive/ppa/+files/bzr-svn_0.5.4-1~bazaar1~jaunty1_all.deb from the beta ppa?
[13:32] <beuno> LarstiQ, sure
[13:34] <beuno> ah
[13:34] <beuno> doesn't work with nightlies
[13:58] <vila> abentley: ping
[14:03] <abentley> vila: pong
[14:05] <vila> abentley: at the end of bzrlib/merge_directive.py MergeDirective2 is registered with a string mentioning 0.19 while its _format_string attribute mentions 0.90, is it deliberate ?
[14:05] <abentley> vila: doesn't sound like it.  lemme see...
[14:06] <beuno> LarstiQ, works perfect
[14:06] <LarstiQ> beuno: thanks!
[14:07] <abentley> vila: Yes, it looks deliberate.  You see that it's registered twice, right?
[14:07] <vila> yes
[14:08] <vila> so why ?
[14:08] <abentley> 0.19 never existed.  It got renamed to 0.90.
[14:08] <abentley> But by that point, there were already merge directives in the wild that used 0.19
[14:08] <vila> abentley: oeuf corse
[14:09] <abentley> So this was to retain compatibility with those merge directives.
[14:10] <vila> abentley: added as comment
[14:12] <vila> abentley: and thanks :)
[14:12] <abentley> vila: np
[15:30] <jam> hey vila, how's it going?
[15:31] <vila> jam: fine, getting closer to submission :)
[15:31] <jam> I at least saw your commit show up :)
[15:31] <vila> jam: Ha ! Good, still not here, but at least I fixed the setup (again :-/)
[15:31] <jam> vila: btw, my recent LRUCache patch *might* be part of the answer for why branch conversions leak a bit of memory
[15:32] <jam> We were "leaking" LRUNodes by leaving in the linked-list, but not in the dict
[15:32] <vila> jam: Next on my list to check :)
[15:32] <jam> The nodes themselves aren't large enough to explain it, but maybe them coupled with referencing a key that then gets repeated would be enough
[15:33] <vila> jam: and multiplied by the number of LRUCache, multiplied by the number of autorepack during the conversion...
[15:34] <vila> jam: damn, just realized I haven't approved your patch :-/
[15:35] <jam> vila: well, when we get rid of the containing btree reference, it should gc the lru nodes
[15:35] <jam> so... maybe
[15:35] <jam> certainly I think the fix will help
[15:35] <jam> and in the meantime I'll finish perf testing the link indirection
[15:35] <jam> it seems to cost about 10% overhead
[15:35] <vila> ECONTEXT link ?
[15:37] <jam> vila: LRUNodes are in a double linked list (.next, .prev)
[15:37] <jam> which means that if you just del LRUCache
[15:37] <jam> they stay around until gc.collect() runs
[15:37] <vila> ha, that link :)
[15:38] <jam> You can use 'prev_key' and then look up the prev object in LRUCache._cache
[15:38] <jam> the problem is it adds a dict overhead
[15:39] <jam> vila: current timing: http://paste.ubuntu.com/152135/
[15:39] <jam> That is with 2.8M tuples
[15:39] <jam> 8.2k unique
[15:44] <vila> jam: this measures only the cache overhead right ?
[15:44] <jam> right
[15:44] <jam> this is with a test where a miss has 0 cost
[15:44] <jam> I just do except: cache[val] = val
[15:45] <vila> so, you're trying to be quicker without leaking memory, I'd say we don't want to leak memory, whatever the price is :)
[15:46] <jam> vila: this isn't about *leaking* specifically
[15:46] <jam> it is just whether the data gets cleaned up during "del foo"
[15:46] <jam> or during "gc.collect()"
[15:46] <vila> jam: sure, I shouldn't have say leaked, sry
[15:46] <jam> vila: the patch you approved was about a more genuine "leak"
[15:46] <jam> where not even gc.collect() would grab it
[15:47] <jam> because they were still 'live' in the linked list
[15:47] <jam> vila: And gc.collect() runs automatically every 700 unmatched allocations or so
[15:48] <jam> so the data will get cleaned up eventually
[15:49] <jam> I *think* I want to do it anyway
[15:49] <jam> I just need a real-world benefit
[15:49] <jam> and maybe big conversions are it
[15:49] <jam> since during autopack we'll be generate a new btree index, and "throwing away" the old one
[15:50] <vila> by the way, the xml cache trick seems to reduce memory pressure too here, I'm (approx) at 20 out 27 hours (instead of 41) and the memory is at 3GB ( instead of 4GB)
[15:51] <vila> jam: right, and we autopack several times :)
[15:51] <vila> one just triggers here :)
[15:52] <jam> vila: yeah, the xml trick means that for the 100 or so revision trees we have in memory
[15:52] <jam> we only have 1 copy of 99% of the inventory objects
[15:53] <jam> I would be surprised for it to be 1GB
[15:55] <vila> jam: those 3 and 4GB are very rough, and the conversion is still not done, yet, from memory (mine) this was growing linearly with time
[15:55] <jam> then again, it could be *huge* for improving fragmentation
[15:56] <vila> jam: that's the problem :) We really need to find a better way to measure that fragmentation
[15:56] <jam> vila: bzr branch lp:~jameinel/+junk/py_memory_dump :)
[16:05] <vila> jam: Hmpf man malloc(3) BUGS section 8-/
[16:12] <__alexandre__> hi everybody
[16:13] <__alexandre__> I have a problem using bazaar and I need some help. Am I in the right place ?
[16:13] <bialix> hi, jelmer is around?
[16:14] <bialix> __alexandre__: simply ask the question
[16:14] <__alexandre__> I'm trying to use bazaar with an HTTP server (lighttpd)
[16:14] <__alexandre__> but with basic authentification
[16:15] <__alexandre__> and bazaar does not ask me for my password when it gets 401 error
[16:15] <jam> __alexandre__: use a username in the url
[16:15] <jam><EMAIL_ADDRESS>[16:15] <__alexandre__> I tried
[16:15] <__alexandre__> but I get a big traceback
[16:16] <__alexandre__> if I set the password with it
[16:16] <__alexandre__> something like
[16:16] <__alexandre__> http://username:password@localhost/the_path
[16:17] <__alexandre__> even just http://username@localhost does not work
[16:22] <vila> __alexandre__: can you pastebin the traceback somewhere ? What bzr version are you using ?
[16:23] <__alexandre__> Bazaar (bzr) 1.6.1 with python2.5.2
[16:24] <vila> __alexandre__: hmm, I'm affraid you need to upgrade, 1.6.1 is pretty old and some bugs have been fixed in that area
[16:24] <__alexandre__> bzr: ERROR: pycurl.error: (65, "necessary data rewind wasn't possible")
[16:24] <__alexandre__> Traceback (most recent call last):
[16:24] <__alexandre__>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/bzrlib/commands.py", line 857, in run_bzr_catch_errors
[16:24] <__alexandre__>     return run_bzr(argv)
[16:24] <__alexandre__>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/bzrlib/commands.py", line 797, in run_bzr
[16:24] <__alexandre__>     ret = run(*run_argv)
[16:24] <__alexandre__>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/bzrlib/commands.py", line 499, in run_argv_aliases
[16:24] <__alexandre__>     return self.run(**all_cmd_args)
[16:24] <__alexandre__>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/bzrlib/builtins.py", line 840, in run
[16:24] <__alexandre__>     from_location)
[16:25] <__alexandre__>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/bzrlib/bzrdir.py", line 878, in open_tree_or_branch
[16:25] <__alexandre__>     bzrdir = klass.open(location)
[16:25] <__alexandre__>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/bzrlib/bzrdir.py", line 756, in open
[16:25] <vila> __alexandre__: eeerk, pastebin ! not here !
[16:25] <__alexandre__>     return BzrDir.open_from_transport(t, _unsupported=_unsupported)
[16:25] <__alexandre__>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/bzrlib/bzrdir.py", line 793, in open_from_transport
[16:25] <__alexandre__>     redirected)
[16:25] <__alexandre__>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/bzrlib/lazy_import.py", line 125, in __call__
[16:25] <__alexandre__>     return obj(*args, **kwargs)
[16:25] <__alexandre__>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/bzrlib/transport/__init__.py", line 1616, in do_catching_redirections
[16:25] <__alexandre__>     return action(transport)
[16:25] <__alexandre__>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/bzrlib/bzrdir.py", line 770, in find_format
[16:25] <__alexandre__>     transport, _server_formats=_server_formats)
[16:25] <__alexandre__>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/bzrlib/bzrdir.py", line 1593, in find_format
[16:25] <__alexandre__>     return format.probe_transport(transport)
[16:25] <__alexandre__>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/bzrlib/bzrdir.py", line 2580, in probe_transport
[16:25] <__alexandre__>     server_version = medium.protocol_version()
[16:25] <__alexandre__>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/bzrlib/smart/medium.py", line 531, in protocol_version
[16:25] <__alexandre__>     client_protocol.query_version()
[16:25] <__alexandre__>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/bzrlib/smart/protocol.py", line 770, in query_version
[16:25] <__alexandre__>     self.call('hello')
[16:25] <__alexandre__>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/bzrlib/smart/protocol.py", line 618, in call
[16:25] <__alexandre__>     self._request.finished_writing()
[16:25] <__alexandre__>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/bzrlib/smart/medium.py", line
[16:25] <__alexandre__> oh ok
[16:25] <__alexandre__> I'm using the one which is in Ubuntu repository
[16:25] <__alexandre__> oups sorry
[16:25] <__alexandre__> (which are not always uptodate)
[16:26] <__alexandre__> ok I'll try with the last stable version
[16:26] <__alexandre__> thank you !
[16:27] <vila> __alexandre__: anyway, the relevant error here is:  ERROR: pycurl.error: (65, "necessary data rewind wasn't possible")
[16:27] <vila> and I'm pretty sure many fixes applies to solve that :-)
[16:29] <vila> __alexandre__: if you look at https://launchpad.net/bzr/ you'll find instructions on how to add a bzr sources.list entry for any Ubuntu version, and you can choose to use stable, beta or nightly build of bzr
[16:32] <__alexandre__> ok it seems to work with a newer version. thank you
[16:58] <jam> vila: just checked 'man malloc', I'm not particularly worried about the bug
[16:59] <vila> jam: no, no worries, just... ugh
[16:59] <jam> It just means that if you have "for(i = 0; i < infinity; ++i) {malloc(100000)}
[16:59] <jam> it will over succeed
[16:59] <jam> pages aren't actually acquired until you touch them
[16:59] <vila> ...and then randomly kill some processes
[16:59] <jam> I remember benchmarking it in the past
[20:10] <jonnydee> hello, I need help with nested trees: when I "join --reference" a subtree "bzr st" on the outer tree lists ".bzr" directory of subtree as "unknown". is this correct behavior? (I am using bzr 1.13.1)
[20:12] <jonnydee> btw, "bzr st" also lists all the other files/directories within the subtree as "unknown", too...
[20:18] <jonnydee> no one who can help me? I'd love you use nested trees, because they seem to be exactly what I need.
[20:19] <LarstiQ> jonnydee: nested trees (especially reference) have seen recent development, I don't think 1.13 has all of that.
[20:19]  * LarstiQ is bad with time
[20:19] <LarstiQ> jonnydee: http://bazaar-vcs.org/NestedTreeProgress
[20:20] <jonnydee> particularly, the feature that bzr will remember the revision of the inner tree within the outer tree is very cool!!!
[20:21] <jonnydee> LarstiQ: I've read this site, but I wonder why bzr 1.13.1 already has "join --reference" released...
[20:21] <jonnydee> (thanx for your reaction :) )
[20:21] <james_w> is there a plugin with a pre_commit hook for test before commit?
[20:22] <james_w> *not* PQM ;-)
[20:22] <LarstiQ> jonnydee: it's not in bzr.dev, let me check 1.13
[20:23] <LarstiQ> jonnydee: --reference is indeed on join in 1.13, but join itself is a hidden command.
[20:24] <LarstiQ> jonnydee: anyway, it boils down to: I'm afraid nested trees as released will not do what you want, just yet.
[20:25] <LarstiQ> jonnydee: depending on what you want, you could 1) wait 2) try Aaron's recent code 3) use scmproj or config-manager 4) without reference, manual, etc
[20:25] <jonnydee> ahh ok :)  but do you know what can be done with the current release? I mean can I use join in any useful way?
[20:26] <LarstiQ> jonnydee: there are cases where it can be usefully used, yes
[20:26] <LarstiQ> jonnydee: but what's your usecase? Maybe we can help you find something for that.
[20:28] <jonnydee> I would like to have a 'lib' branch as a subtree of another project branch.
[20:29] <jonnydee> the lib branch is versioned itself
[20:31] <jonnydee> currently, I maintain a branch with all my software projects in it. but this turns out to be not quite practicable, because when I develop a feature for project x I branch the complete tree with all projects
[20:31] <LarstiQ> pretty much the canonical case for by reference nested trees, indeed
[20:31] <jonnydee> so I would like to have a separate branch for each project
[20:32] <jonnydee> and get common things for each project by subtrees
[20:32] <jonnydee> yes, I think it's exactly the use case described in http://bazaar-vcs.org/NestedTreesDesign
[20:33] <LarstiQ> jonnydee: I haven't looked at scmproj (https://launchpad.net/bzr-scmproj) since it's redesign, but I've used it in the past to accomplish this
[20:33] <LarstiQ> jonnydee: so you might want to look at that for something that works right now
[20:34] <jonnydee> oh, thanks for this hint :) I'll have a look to it. and thank you very much for your attention and help :)
[20:36] <LarstiQ> jonnydee: np
[20:50] <james_w> vila: around by any chance?
[20:50] <james_w> I have some testsuite questions :-)
[20:50] <vila> james_w: lucky you ! :)
[20:50] <james_w> yay!
[20:51] <james_w> I want a way to run the testsuite for a plugin that doesn't depend on the plugin being the one that bzr will load
[20:51] <vila> what testsuite ?
[20:51] <james_w> so that e.g. "python tests/__init__.py" in the plugin will run its tests regardless of where it is
[20:51]  * LarstiQ tries to parse that again
[20:51] <LarstiQ> ah, right
[20:52] <vila> ok, run the test suite without selftest
[20:52] <james_w> yeah
[20:52] <vila> jusdepending on unittest or using bzrlib.tests features
[20:52] <vila>  ?
[20:52] <james_w> I've needed it a couple of times, so I'm finally going to try and come up with a working solution, so I thought that I would come to the master
[20:52] <james_w> bzrlib.tests would be nice
[20:53] <vila> and why not use selftest -s bp.myplugin ?
[20:53] <james_w> because that involves making sure that "myplugin" is on the bzr plugin path
[20:53] <vila> need to test various versions without swapping ?
[20:53] <james_w> I just wrote a quick pre_change_branch_tip hook for running tests
[20:54] <james_w> it gets the branch and a revid, so it exports to a tempdir, and runs the tests there
[20:54] <LarstiQ> james_w: BZR_PLUGIN_PATH=. ?
[20:54] <vila> james_w: I was thinking about LarstiQ proposal while searching the relevant bug on lp :)
[20:54] <LarstiQ> bit of a hammer
[20:55] <james_w> LarstiQ: yeah, it's a bit annoying as it tries to load like setup.py as a plugin for example
[20:55] <LarstiQ> james_w: ooh
[20:55] <LarstiQ> right
[20:55] <vila> james_w: if __name__ == "__main__":
[20:55] <vila>     unittest.TestProgram(module=__name__)
[20:56] <vila> if the incantation I use when doing TDD outside bzr
[20:56] <james_w> so that would be fine for anything not using the bzr extensions?
[20:56] <LarstiQ> vila: how does that differ from unittest.main()?
[20:56] <vila> it should be fine to use bzr extensions *except* for load_test() and test_suite()
[20:57] <james_w> ah, because of inheritance!
[20:58] <vila> LarstiQ: main = TestProgram
[20:58] <vila>  in unittest.py ? :-P
[20:58] <jam> james_w: why not write a 'main()' function which just imports bzrlib.tests and runs itself
[20:58] <vila> line ~808 :)
[20:58] <jam> heck, if you want to get crafty, you could have it set BZR_PLUGIN_PATH
[20:58] <jam> and then run 'bzr selftest -s bp.myplugin'
[20:59] <vila> ELOOP :)
[21:00] <jam> vila: not really, it is just a "if __name__ == '__main__':" check
[21:00] <jam> I suppose it is recursive, but directly terminating
[21:00] <vila> jam: not the code, the discussion :)
[21:00] <james_w> ok, putting vila's suggestion in tests/__init__.py runs 0 tests
[21:00] <vila> I proposed -s bp.myplugin earlier :)
[21:00] <jam> vila: right, and he said the problem was he didn't want to have to put it into path
[21:00] <jam> so *I* suggested having the plugin put itself into path
[21:01] <jam> and have the *plugin* call out to "bzr selftest $ME"
[21:01] <james_w> putting it in __init__.py fails as you can't run "__init__.py" as it tries to import parts of the plugin, and plugins haven't been loaded yet so they aren't under b.p.
[21:01] <jam> so his "python tests/__init__.py" would Just Work
[21:01] <vila> jam: right, I rule that out too fast maybe (I thought there may be several versins conflicting)
[21:02] <vila> james_w: if you use b.p. imports then you *must* use bzr to load correctly
[21:02] <james_w> yeah
[21:02] <james_w> so I want to run bzr, but I want slightly more control over the plugins it imports
[21:04] <vila> bug #316192
[21:04] <jam> james_w: well you could put the "if __name__" check very early
[21:04] <jam> and have it finish with "sys.exit()"
[21:04] <jam> (as in, put it before the other 'import' statements, etc)
[21:04] <vila> bug #82693
[21:12] <vila> jam, james_w : we could add a test-plugin command that will implement jam suggestion above (load the plugin and run selftest -s bp.plugin) with options to load *only* the plugin or *also* the plugin and accept the plugin path as a parameter
[21:13] <james_w> that would be great
[21:13] <james_w> I'm getting there
[21:13] <james_w> however, the plugin is currently loaded as "bzrlib.plugins.trunk"
[21:14] <vila> james_w: :-) I know that one, I ended up making my ~/.bazaar/plugins directory a link farm pointing to various ~/src subdirectories
[21:14] <james_w> that's what I have
[21:15] <vila> I also love a bzr enable/disable plugin that mv in and out the DISABLED directory :-)
[21:18] <james_w> \o/
[21:18] <james_w> it won't work on Windows though
[21:19] <james_w> if __name__ == '__main__':
[21:19] <james_w>     import os
[21:19] <james_w>     import subprocess
[21:19] <james_w>     import sys
[21:19] <LarstiQ> mv DISABLED?
[21:19] <james_w>     dir = os.path.join(os.path.dirname(os.path.abspath(__file__)), "plugins")
[21:19] <james_w>     retcode = subprocess.call("bzr selftest -s bzrlib.plugins.builder",
[21:19] <james_w>             shell=True, env={"BZR_PLUGIN_PATH": dir})
[21:19] <james_w>     sys.exit(retcode)
[21:19] <james_w> with /plugins/builder -> /
[21:19] <james_w> (symlink)
[21:20] <james_w> thanks team, I'll use this for a while and see how it goes
[21:36] <Kobaz> zr: ERROR: Connection error: curl connection error (server certificate verification failed. CAfile: /etc/ssl/certs/ca-certificates.crt)
[21:37] <Kobaz> i get that while trying to do a pull
[21:37] <Kobaz> how do i turn off ca validation
[21:37] <Kobaz> i use self-signed certs
[21:38] <exarkun> Kobaz: Add your cert to the site ca cert list?
[21:38] <exarkun> Then you can use self-signed certs /and/ retain some security.
[21:38] <exarkun> woot.
[21:40] <LarstiQ> or use http+urllib://
[21:42] <exarkun> LarstiQ: That's the same as turning off ca validation, right?
[21:42] <LarstiQ> exarkun: isn't that exactly what Kobaz is asking?
[21:42] <exarkun> Yes
[21:42] <LarstiQ> ah, that way.
[21:43] <LarstiQ> exarkun: yes, I believe it is.
[21:43] <LarstiQ> exarkun: although our use of urllib may have grown certificate validation.
[21:44] <LarstiQ> I wish it did, it's the only thing keeping pycurl alive.
[21:45] <Kobaz> mmm
[21:45] <Kobaz> so the only way is to add the ca to the ca store?
[21:46] <Kobaz> oh wait
[21:46] <Kobaz> what's http+urllib://
[21:46] <Kobaz> i'm using bzr+https://
[21:46] <LarstiQ> Kobaz: could you try bzr+https+urllib:// ?
[21:47] <LarstiQ> not sure if multiple decorators work, but worth a try
[21:48] <Kobaz> k
[21:48] <Kobaz> it's weird though, i'm putting bzr on a new box
[21:48] <Kobaz> i use bzr+https:// on all my other boxes with no issue
[21:48] <Kobaz> all on bzr 1.13
[21:49] <lifeless> Kobaz: in bzr 1.13 the server will do more operations; you may be seeing the server itself generatin that error
[21:49] <Kobaz> bzr: ERROR: Unsupported protocol for url "bzr+https+urllib://
[21:50] <Kobaz> it's definitly not the server
[21:50] <LarstiQ> Kobaz: my guess is that all the others do not have pycurl installed
[21:50] <Kobaz> oh yeah, that's how i fixed it, was removing pycurl
[21:51] <LarstiQ> good night
[21:51] <Kobaz> so soon?
[21:52] <Kobaz> here's something i've been wondering a while
[21:52] <Kobaz> how do i display relative paths when doing bzr st, or other commands
[21:52] <Kobaz> bogger {~/projects/system_init} kobaz$ bzr st *
[21:52] <Kobaz> unknown: system_init/create_postgres_users
[21:52] <LarstiQ> Kobaz: 23.00, my usual sleeping time
[21:53] <Kobaz> what i used to do all the time with subversion, is copy and paste the filename and do somethign with it
[21:53] <Kobaz> so if i copy and paste
[21:53] <Kobaz> i get bzr diff system_init/create_postgres_users
[21:53] <Kobaz> which doesn't exist... since i'm already in system_init/
[21:53] <Kobaz> if i do bzr st *... i should see just: system_init
[21:54] <Kobaz> er i mean... i should just see the files with relative paths... which would be just one filw: create_postgres_users
[21:59] <lifeless> Kobaz: we are changing st to be like svn in that regard
[21:59] <lifeless> Kobaz: for now you could do `bzr root`/<filename>
[22:00] <Kobaz> i like if you do svn st... and it will show you everything in the tree
[22:00] <Kobaz> but it would be cool if there was an option to do relative paths
[22:00] <Kobaz> i think both methods should exist
[22:10] <lifeless> Kobaz: yes, it will show everything and give relative paths
[22:10] <lifeless> htats the current plan as I understand it
[22:12] <Kobaz> nifty
[22:18] <kfogel> lifeless: the new eol-conversion stuff is entirely client side, right?  that is, if someone wants the feature, and they upgrade their local bzr to 1.14rc1, then they'll get the feature, even if the other servers they talk to are 1.13 or older.  Is that correct?
[22:19] <lifeless> kfogel: at this point I believe so
[22:20] <kfogel> lifeless: thanks.  Wanted to make absolutely sure, before I said it to a VIU.
[22:20] <kfogel> lifeless: I saw your "I believe"; I will CC Martin on my response to make sure.
[22:21] <lifeless> kfogel: igc has been writing this feature
[22:21] <fullermd> 'client' is probably the wrong division.  It's all WT-side.
[22:22] <kfogel> fullermd: well, in a sense that's a subset of "client" (I think this user wants to be told the answer in the simplest way possible).
[22:25] <lifeless> kfogel: I'm not aware of any changes in the repository api to signal how things should be stored
[22:25] <lifeless> kfogel: which says its all client side to me
[22:26] <kfogel> lifeless: *nod*
[22:34] <Peng_> beuno: Ping?
[22:34] <beuno> Peng_, pong
[22:34] <Peng_> beuno: Oh hi!
[22:34] <Peng_> Um.
[22:34] <beuno> hai
[22:35] <Peng_> beuno: Any opinion on bug 358322?
[22:35] <beuno> Peng_, yeah, we should use the same dir, and make it configurable
[22:36] <beuno> not add the timestamp, or whatever random string to add
[22:36] <beuno> is that what you where aiming at?
[22:36] <Peng_> beuno: I wasn't aiming at anything in particular.
[22:37] <beuno> well, that's what I thought of in the shower a day or two ago  :)
[22:38] <AmanicA> kfogel: wouldn't you need to update to the 1.14 formats to get that feature? so the old version on the server would not like it
[22:39] <AmanicA> New formats 1.14 and 1.14-rich-root supporting End-Of-Line (EOL) conversions,
[22:39] <Peng_> AmanicA: But if the only new format is the working tree, and the server-side doesn't have working trees, it's not a problem.
[22:39] <Peng_> beuno: Is my patch okay as an interim solution?
[22:39] <AmanicA> ah
[22:40] <kfogel> AmanicA, Peng_: or at least, whatever working trees are on the server side are of no concern on our side.
[22:40] <beuno> Peng_, I did not know there was a patch
[22:40]  * beuno looks
[22:42] <beuno> Peng_, you should file merge proposals  ;)
[22:42] <beuno> now
[22:42] <beuno> what would the prefix fix?
[22:42] <Peng_> beuno: Sorry. I didn't because it was only an RFC.
[22:42] <beuno> identifying it?
[22:45] <blfgomes> could anybody help me setup bzr to work with a proxy that requires authentication?
[22:46] <beuno> Peng_, ^ ?
[22:46] <Peng_> Err, hold on. I just got distracted.
[22:47] <beuno> sure, didn't know if you had read
[22:47] <lifeless> blfgomes: export http_proxy=http://hostname:port/
[22:47] <blfgomes> anybody? I have HTTP_PROXY configured, I can do pretty much everything (wget, apt-get), except for bzr
[22:48] <lifeless> blfgomes: ok, is it lp: url's that are giving you grief ?
[22:48] <blfgomes> lifeless: I tried the whole url as well, but it doesn't seem to be authentication in either case
[22:49] <blfgomes> I just get a 407 straight away
[22:49] <lifeless> hmm
[22:49] <lifeless> vila: ^
[22:49] <lifeless> what proxy is it?
[22:49] <blfgomes> good question
[22:51] <blfgomes> I've seen some unorthodox proxy configuration here at work before, where some things wouldn't work... But why should bzr fail when wget runs smoothly?
[22:51] <lifeless> if its doing NTLM/kerberos we might not support tat
[22:51] <lifeless> I'm reasonably sure we support digest
[22:52] <lifeless> vila maintains our http stack
[22:52] <blfgomes> I'm giving my credentials in plain text in the HTTP_PROXY variable
[22:52] <lifeless> oh
[22:52] <lifeless> I'd strace and see what bzr is putting on the wire
[22:53] <lifeless> note that lp: url's won't work through a proxy at all at this point :(
[22:53] <lifeless> due to a xmlrpc lib limitation we haven't worked around yet
[22:53] <Peng_> beuno: On a different subject, I forgot, for "fix is in lp:loggerhead", do you use Fix Committed or Fix Released?
[22:53] <lifeless> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/ ones will work
[22:54] <beuno> Peng_, committed
[22:54] <blfgomes> you're right... lp: urls timeout here, whereas full urls give me the 407 error
[22:54] <Peng_> beuno: Thanks.
[22:58] <Peng_> beuno: Anyway. What do you mean about prefixes?
[22:58] <beuno> Peng_, the cache dirs are created in /tmp
[22:58] <beuno> with different names each time, no?
[22:59] <Peng_> beuno: Oh. The prefix argument is just so the directory is named "/tmp/loggerhead-cache-XXXXXX" instead of something like "/tmp/tmpXXXXXX". That's not a new change.
[22:59] <beuno> Peng_, ok, so, I'm fine with that change
[22:59] <beuno> bb:approve
[22:59] <beuno> lp:
[22:59] <beuno> whatever
[22:59] <beuno> but the deeper problem is that you shouldn't have to re-generate the cache everytime you restart
[23:00] <beuno> no?
[23:00] <beuno> or did I worry for nothing?
[23:00] <beuno> I do that sometimes
[23:00] <Peng_> beuno: Honestly, I don't mind that. My cache got corrupted once, so that meant a restart fixed it.
[23:01] <beuno> I guess you don't have 200mb of caches and a dying server
[23:01] <beuno> :)
[23:01] <Peng_> Heh, right.
[23:01] <beuno> someday, I'll work on Loggerhead again
[23:02] <beuno> I'm sure
[23:02] <Peng_> beuno: It doesn't *need* to be recreated every time. Using a static location doesn't cause any problems.
[23:02] <Peng_> Well, currently I think the file gets deleted on shutdown anyway, and I don't know hwy.
[23:02] <lifeless> blfgomes: please file a bug
[23:02] <Peng_> s/hwy/why/
[23:02] <lifeless> blfgomes: I'll assign it to vila and ask him to look; he's in europe
[23:03] <lifeless> BasicOSX: ping; is your addons repo work now ?
[23:03] <beuno> Peng_, yeah. I think making it static is better. And even more if it's configurable
[23:03] <BasicOSX> lifeless:  I haven't check since the initial debug and troubleshooting
[23:04] <BasicOSX> I'm still at my real job, will check it again tonight when I'm home
[23:04] <blfgomes> lifeless: I'll make sure it's a bug, first
[23:05] <lifeless> blfgomes: thanks
[23:05] <lifeless> BasicOSX: ok, grab me and we'll sort it out; I have a meeting in ~ 3 hours for <2 hours
[23:05] <lifeless> BasicOSX: other than that a clear slate to help
[23:08] <BasicOSX> lifeless:  I also have a backup of the repo (go Timemachine) from 2am that morning, I'm going to restore some place different and see if my repo got corrupt
[23:13] <Peng_> beuno: If I make it configurable, what do you think the default should be? Going through mkdtemp is really hte safest option.
[23:13] <Peng_> s/hte/the/ Darnit!
[23:14] <beuno> Peng_, agreed. Make mkdtemp the default, but let the user pass a config option
[23:16] <Peng_> beuno: Alright.
[23:16] <beuno> Peng_, you rock
[23:26]  * beuno -> home
[23:26] <beuno> bbiab
[23:47] <lifeless> james_w: btw let me know if my plugin works ;)
[23:47] <lifeless> james_w: I didn't test it
[23:56] <Peng_> beuno: Back yet?
[23:56] <beuno> Peng_, yes
[23:56] <Peng_> beuno: What do you want the option to be named? --cache-dir? --sql-dir? Something else?
[23:56] <Peng_> (FWIW, I picked --cache-dir, since it may be changed to something not-SQL in the future.)
[23:57] <beuno> Peng_, --cache-dir sounds good
[23:57] <Peng_> beuno: Alright. Thanks.


[10:50] <nebuchadnezzar> Hello
[14:58] <cjwatson> nebuchadnezzar: hi - thanks for your reports
[14:59] <cjwatson> nebuchadnezzar: what revision of ubuntu-cdimage are you on right now for bug 1133321, and exactly what command line are you running?
[15:01] <nebuchadnezzar> I'm using trunk cdimage
[15:03] <cjwatson> Right, I know, but what revision number?
[15:03] <nebuchadnezzar> and I run: ARCHES=amd64 DIST=lucid CDIMAGE_ROOT=$(pwd) bin/for-project $MY_PROJECT ${CDIMAGE_ROOT}/bin/cron.daily
[15:03] <nebuchadnezzar> sorry: 1038
[15:04] <nebuchadnezzar> It looks like Config.set_default_arches() do not use environment variables
[15:04] <cjwatson> Any local modifications?
[15:05] <cjwatson> Ah, yes, my mistake then
[15:05] <nebuchadnezzar> only in for-project to accept my custom project name
[15:05] <nebuchadnezzar> and some logging in build.py
[15:07] <cjwatson> It's all been very awkward with the temporary bridging between shell and Python
[15:08] <nebuchadnezzar> sure, I'm following it near in live ;-)
[15:08]  * cjwatson attempts to write a test case
[15:11] <cjwatson> My initial attempt at fixing this (by not exporting values from the config file to the environment at all, and relying on anything non-Python that needs them to source etc/config) horribly broke debian-cd
[15:12] <cjwatson> I think perhaps the answer is to explicitly export the Config to debian-cd in its environment
[15:13] <nebuchadnezzar> I must admit I'm not completely aware of how it works, I have a quite hard time understanding seeds and germinate, I set LOCAL_SEEDS, add a $PROJECT.$DIST/ seed directory, I added a $PROJECT.$DIST/$PROJECT seed file with my custom metapackages, list it in STRUCTURE which include ubuntu.$DIST, the germination is OK, I got my $GERMINATE_OUT/$PROJECT.packages but the $TASK_OUT/MASTER do not include $PROJECT/$DIST/$PROJECT
[15:14] <cjwatson> It's generally better to add your custom metapackages to an appropriate existing seed instead
[15:15] <cjwatson> Otherwise you have to modify cdimage.germinate.Germination.list_seeds to look at your additional seeds
[15:15] <nebuchadnezzar> I looked cleaner to me, avoiding conflicts with ubuntu ones
[15:15] <cjwatson> Or alternatively you can make some appropriate seed (e.g. "ship" or "desktop") inherit from your new seed
[15:16] <cjwatson> By adding your new seed to the right-hand side of that line in STRUCTURE
[15:16] <nebuchadnezzar> I though TASKPROJECT was use for the task MASTER
[15:16] <cjwatson> I'd probably be inclined to do the latter
[15:17] <cjwatson> No, different named seeds have specific purposes
[15:17] <cjwatson> There's no "ubuntu" seed, for instance ...
[15:18] <cjwatson> For instance, desktop and the seeds it inherits constitute the packages that should be installed for a default desktop install; ship constitutes extra packages shipped on the image which may be installed conditionally or may just be available for manual installation without having to go to the network; etc.
[15:18] <nebuchadnezzar> What do you think about a configration option to be used in cdimage.germinate.Germination.list_seeds
[15:18] <cjwatson> The various modes of list-seeds list the seeds that are used for various purposes
[15:19] <cjwatson> It doesn't sound necessary or desirable in your case; the seeds are intended to be modified
[15:29] <nebuchadnezzar> so, looking at cdimage.germinate.Germination.seed_dists, I create a $PROJECT.$DIST seeds directory, and create a seed file called "required" and list my metapackages in it, an empty seed file "$PROJECT" which depends on "boot required minimal standard" to build my alternate ISO with my packages?
[15:36] <nebuchadnezzar> I really thought of building a seed tree and the roots are the $PROJECT listing some metapackages and depending on other seeds, but it seems that seeds file names are quite static, or maybe the $PROJECT-server is what I need, I'll make some tests
[15:49] <nebuchadnezzar> trying to be clear of what I did: http://paste.ubuntu.com/5567938/
[15:55] <cjwatson> You really shouldn't use required for this ...
[15:55] <cjwatson> That has a specific meaning, roughly the set of packages installed by debootstrap
[15:55] <cjwatson> I really actively recommend against this idea that you should name your seed after your project.
[15:55] <cjwatson> It will only confuse you.
[15:56] <cjwatson> Treat seeds as having functional names, not branding names
[15:56] <cjwatson> I suspect you ought to just replace the server seed contents with yours; I'd recommend taking a bzr branch of the Ubuntu seeds to make it easier to manage
[15:57] <nebuchadnezzar> no, I just add packages on-top
[15:57] <cjwatson> I get the impression that your image is more like the Ubuntu server image than the alternate image?
[15:59] <nebuchadnezzar> Well, the guy before me did some things, and we got alternate images, with a boot menu to install all our flavors (hack of $DIST/boot.$ARCH)
[16:00] <nebuchadnezzar> I try to make it more "clean" in the ubuntu way
[17:35] <cjwatson> nebuchadnezzar: Try r1039 and see if it fixes bug 1133321?
[17:35] <cjwatson> Sorry for the delay - had to pick up my bike from the repair shop, then had a meeting
[18:09] <nebuchadnezzar> not a problem, I'll try tomorrow
[18:10] <nebuchadnezzar> good evening


[00:19] <cyberanger> Happy thanksgiving
[01:03] <Omnifrog> happy DEATH TO ALL TURKEYS day !
[01:04] <Unit193> We had ham.
[01:05] <Omnifrog> we have a ridiculously large family so we had both
[01:06] <Omnifrog> also, YAY! I got a reply from that misdirected email
[01:07] <Omnifrog> Eric
[01:07] <Omnifrog> I only provide financing to actual homes, not a tree house.
[01:07] <Omnifrog> Should you change your search to buying a home give me a call.
[01:07] <Omnifrog> Best of luck in your search.
[01:07] <Omnifrog> ...
[01:07] <Omnifrog> so, he still has no idea the email address is wrong
[01:08] <Omnifrog> I guess it's my move
[01:34] <cyberanger> Unit193: that wasn't kosher
[01:34] <Unit193> \o/
[01:34] <cyberanger> Omnifrog: lol
[09:57] <Jack1> any body using 'dd' before


[19:07] <derekS> is it possible to have UMR and UNR running from one installation? Just changing the DM?
[19:41] <plars_> derekS: not easily, best bet is probably to dual boot
[19:42] <plars_> derekS: there are potential plans to make UNR selectable as an interface at login time in Lucid though
[19:43] <derekS> plars: would that be to team it with UMR and KDE's Netbook?
[20:39] <GrueMaster> derekS: UMR is essentially Intel's GUI design on top of Ubuntu core OS.
[20:40] <GrueMaster> Not even remotely similar beyond that.


[16:03] <pmjdebruijn> is the methodology for building a xubuntu iso public?
[16:56] <gnrp> pmjdebruijn: I'd assume it is the same process as for ubuntu, just with different packages
[16:56] <gnrp> and I'm actually not even sure if that is different from building a Debian iso
[17:47] <thanantonop> Hi
[17:49] <thanantonop> for the applications like gimp blender inkscape etc do you use more snaps or the native ubuntu repos?