[05:10] <nixternal> !meeting
[05:10] <nixternal> !meetings
[05:10] <nixternal> !time
[07:21] <cyphermox> geser, was the MC meeting cancelled?
[07:24] <geser> no, but the other MC members are not here yet
[07:25] <geser> persia, nhandler, nixternal, jpds: here?
[07:33] <kecsap_> what happens the mc meeting today?
[07:34] <kecsap_> when will it take place
[07:34] <kecsap_> ?
[07:34] <cyphermox> kecsap_, it's as geser said :)
[07:34] <geser> when we have quorum
[07:34] <kecsap_> ok
[07:34] <kecsap_> so waiting....
[07:34] <kecsap_> thanks
[07:35] <cyphermox> kecsap_, sorry, i hadn't realized you probably didn't see the messages
[07:35] <kecsap_> cyphermox, my laptop was frozen and it was needed to restart it. no problem. :)
[07:56] <geser> dholbach: kecsap_ and cyphermox are waiting for us
[07:57] <geser> Quintasan|Szel: are you here too?
[08:05] <cyphermox> geser, dholbach, I'm very sorry but I guess I'll have to reschedule, it's getting really late here and I need to get some sleep... so it's going to be back in January :)
[08:06] <kecsap_> from my side, I can still wait, no problem for me
[08:06] <dholbach> cyphermox: I'm sorry - either January or we might manage to have an adhoc meeting
[08:06] <cyphermox> not a problem
[08:07]  * dholbach hugs cyphermox
[08:07] <dholbach> sleep tight :)
[08:07]  * cyphermox hugs back
[08:07] <cyphermox> from the Meeting page, "Ad-hoc meeting on 11 December 2009 on 14 UTC", is that valid?
[08:07] <geser> cyphermox: if 6h of sleep are enough for you :), we are trying to do an adhoc meeting at 14 UTC today
[08:07] <dholbach> for Quintasan|Szel
[08:07] <cyphermox> geser, my point exactly :)
[08:08] <geser> if we reach quorum at that time, yes
[08:08] <cyphermox> alright, I should be there
[08:09] <kecsap_> can I still wait or this meeting is obviously lost?
[08:09] <cyphermox> later!
[08:09] <dholbach> kecsap_: I just texted two other MC members - it's an obvious problem we have as the MC is literally spread around the globe
[08:10] <dholbach> (east side of the US, Europe and Japan :))
[08:10] <dholbach> kecsap_: so if you still have time, don't give up hope yet
[08:11] <kecsap_> ok, I still have hope. :)
[08:13] <geser> kecsap_: I see in your application page no testimonials and no sponsored uploads. did you work with the community till now?
[08:13] <dholbach> kecsap_: you're CsabaKertesz?
[08:15] <kecsap_> as I mentioned there I did not work on ubuntu distribution, but on upstream projects
[08:15] <dholbach> kecsap_: it's a bit hard for us to approve MOTU membership for people who we haven't seen getting patches into Ubuntu itself
[08:15] <kecsap_> that is what I would like to push with my patches now: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/opencv/+bug/311188
[08:15] <dholbach> kecsap_: usually we use the Sponsorship Process to get patches and packages uploaded to Ubuntu for people who are not part of the team yet
[08:15] <dholbach> (basically you just subscribe the reviewers team to the bug)
[08:16] <dholbach> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SponsorshipProcess has more detail about that
[08:16] <dholbach> having had a few conversations about patches between reviewers and somebody who applies makes it easier for us to approve membership
[08:16] <dholbach> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/GettingStarted lists all the other good documentation too
[08:17] <kecsap_> so first I should patch some software in lucid and try the membership after that?
[08:17] <dholbach> kecsap_: exactly
[08:18] <dholbach> kecsap_: so the next time we meet we can have a look at what you've done and what others have said about you
[08:18] <kecsap_> ok and how much bugs should I fix for this? :)
[08:18] <dholbach> kecsap_: that makes the whole thing more straight-forward than having to make assumptions about what you know and what you don't know :)
[08:18] <dholbach> kecsap_: what I find very helpful is talking to sponsors and reviewers
[08:18] <geser> that way you can prove your packaging skills, your knowlegde of the processes and if you can work with others (and others with you)
[08:19] <kecsap_> ok
[08:19] <dholbach> kecsap_: they might have had a look at a few of your patches and will be happy to add an endorsement to your wiki page
[08:19] <dholbach> kecsap_: I really hope you don't see this as a set-back
[08:19] <dholbach> kecsap_: we're there in #ubuntu-motu all the time to help with anything you might need
[08:20] <dholbach> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/GettingStarted should give you all the most important info to get started
[08:20] <kecsap_> let's see. if others will be responsive and helpful then no problem
[08:20] <dholbach> awesome - the sponsorship process usually works out quite well
[08:21] <kecsap_> ok, then I will fix some bugs and update my motu membership application.
[08:21] <dholbach> thanks a lot kecsap_
[08:21] <dholbach> kecsap_: I really appreciate your understanding
[08:21] <kecsap_> thanks to you
[08:21] <dholbach> and as I said: #ubuntu-motu has a lot of future friends :)
[08:21] <kecsap_> c u on january. :)
[08:21] <dholbach> kecsap_: I'll comment out your application from the meeting page for now, ok?
[08:22] <kecsap_> ok
[08:22] <dholbach> thanks a bunch
[08:22] <dholbach> and have a great day!
[08:22] <kecsap_> ok, bye
[14:03] <Quintasan> dholbach: you're around?
[14:04] <dholbach> hello quintasan
[14:04] <persia> Quintasan: Unfortunately, while some of us are around, we're still chasing down the other couple.
[14:04] <dholbach> cyphermox: ready? :)
[14:04] <Quintasan> dholbach: hello
[14:04] <cyphermox> yep
[14:04] <dholbach> let's kick off the meeting anyway
[14:04] <Quintasan> persia: okay
[14:04] <dholbach> if we can't have the full vote, we'll handle the rest via email - I'll try to get people into the meeting as we go :)
[14:04] <dholbach> persia: want to drive the meeting?
[14:04] <persia> Sure.
[14:04] <dholbach> :)
[14:04] <geser> cyphermox: did you sleep well?
[14:05] <persia> #startmeeting
[14:05] <dholbach> super
[14:05] <MootBot> Meeting started at 08:04. The chair is persia.
[14:05] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[14:05] <cyphermox> not too bad. A little short ;)
[14:05] <persia> [TOPIC] Contributing Developer applicatio for Mathieu Trudel
[14:05] <MootBot> New Topic:  Contributing Developer applicatio for Mathieu Trudel
[14:05] <persia> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Mtrudel/ContributingDeveloperApplication
[14:05] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Mtrudel/ContributingDeveloperApplication
[14:05] <dholbach> (this is the agenda for those who haven't seen it yet: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Council/Meeting :-))
[14:06] <persia> dholbach: Thanks :)
[14:06] <persia> cyphermox: Welcome.  So, what is your motivation for becoming a Contributing Developer?
[14:07] <persia> (not why do you develop, but why do you apply for this group now?)
[14:07] <cyphermox> I'm very interested in Ubuntu developer and I think packaging rocks :) My plan is to join the MOTU team, and I see it as another step in becoming more versed into what is going on
[14:08] <dholbach> cyphermox: who did you mostly work with in the Ubuntu world?
[14:08] <persia> Well, you're already an Ubuntu Member, so there's no additional rights or permissions that go with being a Contributing Developer.
[14:08] <cyphermox> dholbach, mostly asac and awe as part of the NetworkManager team, which I am now a part of.
[14:08] <dholbach> nice
[14:08] <cyphermox> otherwise, I've done work on some patches here and there on other stuff
[14:08] <asac> yes.. cyphermox is doing a remarkable job there
[14:08] <cyphermox> e.g. telepathy-butterfly
[14:09] <asac> consider a +1 for me on his application!
[14:09] <cyphermox> I also started this cool little project to test EC2 images, --> lp:checklist ;)
[14:10] <persia> geser: dholbach: Do either of you have any other questions?
[14:10] <dholbach> persia: no :)
[14:11] <dholbach> pretty uncontroversial :)
[14:11] <geser> just a quick question
[14:11] <geser> I see that you got one upload sponsored for hardy, then a longer pause and several uploads for karmic. any specific reason for this long pause?
[14:11] <ScottK> cyphermox: In Kubuntu we often have trouble with NetworkManager and the KDE front end getting out of sync.
[14:12] <ScottK> Would you be able to help us out with fixing such problems?
[14:12] <cyphermox> geser, I'd say it's because of my work. kind of busy in some aspects, and following my upload some coworkers convinced me to be more active. jcastro helped out in convincing me too :)
[14:13] <cyphermox> ScottK, I'd love to. My C skills aren't perfect, but I believe it's good enough to fix some bugs. I'm much better at python though
[14:13] <geser> so you plan to stay active? sounds good :)
[14:13] <cyphermox> OTOH, as I don't use KDE all that much (probably because of the very issues you speak of), I haven't had as much exposure to it as I'd like
[14:14] <cyphermox> geser, indeed
[14:14] <ScottK> We can fix that ...
[14:14] <ScottK> asac gave us some big help the last cycle and we'll miss his assistance.
[14:14] <cyphermox> as I said, work takes a lot of my time -- I'm a sysadmin in a fairly small team to take on *lots* of systems. but I work on Ubuntu whenever I can
[14:15] <asac> ScottK: good thing is that NM wont be that aggressivley up-to-date in future, so the knetworkmanager upstream delay might already be good enough
[14:15] <ScottK> asac: Good to know, just looking for resources if it comes up ....
[14:15] <asac> yep
[14:16] <JontheEchidna> hopefully they'll support NM 0.8 longer than they did 0.7 ;-) ... but I'm getting off-topic
[14:16] <asac> kubuntu team should get someone in the netowrk-manager team imo
[14:16] <asac> so we can train someone etc.
[14:16] <persia> So, any more queries for cyphermox ?
[14:16] <dholbach> not from me
[14:17] <persia> geser: ?
[14:17] <geser> no question from me too
[14:18] <dholbach> shall we vote and chase missing votes per mailing list?
[14:18] <persia> OK.  We're unfortunately still not quorate, but given that granting membership to an Ubuntu Member is a no-op, I'm happy to accept success if three of us vote in favour.  Does that sound reasonable dholbach, geser?
[14:18] <geser> sure :)
[14:19] <dholbach> +1 :)
[14:19] <persia> [VOTE] Accept Mathieu Trudel as a Contributing Developer
[14:19] <MootBot> Please vote on:  Accept Mathieu Trudel as a Contributing Developer.
[14:19] <MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
[14:19] <MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
[14:19] <geser> +1
[14:19] <MootBot> +1 received from geser. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
[14:19] <persia> +1
[14:19] <MootBot> +1 received from persia. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
[14:19] <dholbach> +1
[14:19] <MootBot> +1 received from dholbach. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
[14:19] <persia> [ENDVOTE]
[14:19] <MootBot> Final result is 3 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 3
[14:20] <persia> cyphermox: Congratulations!  This doesn't get you much, as you're already a member, but welcome to the team!
[14:20] <JontheEchidna> Congrats. :)
[14:20] <cyphermox> thanks :)
[14:20] <Quintasan> Grats :D
[14:20] <dholbach> cyphermox: rock on! on to motu-ship (or wherever you go next)!
[14:20] <dholbach> I'm sure you'll do a good job
[14:21] <persia> OK.  Next up.
[14:21] <persia> [TOPIC] MOTU application for Michal Zajac
[14:21] <MootBot> New Topic:  MOTU application for Michal Zajac
[14:22] <persia> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MichalZajac/MOTUApplication
[14:22] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MichalZajac/MOTUApplication
[14:22] <persia> Quintasan: How are you doing today?
[14:22] <Quintasan> persia: oh, good, excited :)
[14:23] <persia> Quintasan: I notice that you're really focused in Kubuntu Development.  What prompts you to apply to MOTU rather than as Kubuntu-dev (or is there a parallel application in process?)
[14:23]  * geser has the same question
[14:23] <ScottK> persia: There is a lot of KDE stuff in Universe that kubuntu-dev does not give upload rights for.
[14:24] <persia> ScottK: Is that something that ought be addressed, or just a coincidence?
[14:24] <Quintasan> persia: well I think upload rights to main are big responsibility and I'd like to spend some more time on learning packaging, also being a dev involves coding somehow and I recently picked c++
[14:24] <dholbach> how much of https://launchpad.net/~quintasan/+related-software is core Kubuntu?
[14:25] <ScottK> persia: I think it's an open question.  Quintasan has shown an interest in the 'long tail' of KDE stuff and has many of the attributes that would make him suitable to be a MOTU gardener.
[14:25] <Quintasan> dholbach: most of the Uploaded packages with exception to dooble and recorditnow
[14:25] <dholbach> alright
[14:26] <dholbach> Quintasan: one comment on the application said you might want to consider talking to upstream developer some more. is that on your radar somehow?
[14:26] <persia> Quintasan: What do you think is the best way to tackle the needs-packaging list?
[14:27] <Quintasan> dholbach: yup, I have gluon to package and I will contact debian-qt-kde devels to consult the package splitting with them
[14:27] <dholbach> Quintasan: do you think it's hard to be and stay in touch with upstream kde and upstream debian?
[14:28] <Quintasan> persia: I would first gather all reports that contain unmaintained and WIP application and check whether it's worth packaging or not
[14:28] <persia> Quintasan: So begin a process of discrimination to exclude packages that don't appear to add value?
[14:29] <Quintasan> dholbach: I really think it depends on type a package, if it's a core package then it can be hard sometimes, like 4.4 packaging :)
[14:30] <Quintasan> persia: something like this, there is no point in including all of available apps out there, is there?
[14:30] <dholbach> Quintasan: what did you find problematic or "not so easy" there?
[14:30] <persia> That's the core of the debate :)  The counter argument is that users should never have to go anywhere else for software.
[14:31] <Quintasan> dholbach: I had few problems with libs and missing files but I sorted them out after few hours.
[14:31] <dholbach> Quintasan: with upstreams help? :)
[14:32] <Quintasan> dholbach: not really, though there were few changes in okteta and I needed to consult with upstream what to do with files
[14:32] <dholbach> alright
[14:32] <dholbach> Quintasan: how's the polish ubuntu translations scene?
[14:33] <Quintasan> dholbach: I think quite good. There are many skilled translators and I saw movement on our mailing list
[14:33] <dholbach> that's great to hear
[14:34] <persia> Quintasan: I notice a number of build failures from some of your recent uploads (e.g. kdeadmin).  What steps have you taken to address these?
[14:36] <Quintasan> AFAIK everything with exception to kdegames was built successfully.
[14:36]  * ScottK notes for the record that he had build failures with the recent KDE 4.4 beta too.  It was a complex transition.
[14:36] <Riddell> I'd like to reitterate my comments on Quintasan's application, he's learnt well and would be a positive contribution to MOTU and KDE packages in universe if approved
[14:37] <JontheEchidna> yeah, 4.4 beta was brutal
[14:37] <Quintasan> I just can nod :)
[14:37] <persia> I'm sure it was.  I'm more curious about Quintasan's explanation of the process to address the failures than that the source happened to be difficult.
[14:38] <Quintasan> persia: I can't quite remember having problems with kdeadmin though I might have forgotten to change *.so version, that was the most common source of build failures for me
[14:39] <Quintasan> let me look in bzr
[14:39] <JontheEchidna> Quintasan: there was a build-dep on libx11-dev that was forgotten
[14:39] <JontheEchidna> but I missed that in my sponsoring of your package, so I'm just as much to blame as you
[14:39] <Riddell> which was actually an issue elsewhere
[14:39] <JontheEchidna> yeah, that too
[14:39] <persia> Quintasan: Feel free to pick another example package.  It's that the last several showed up at https://launchpad.net/~quintasan/+related-software rather than kdeadmin specifically
[14:40] <JontheEchidna> most of those other ones are just ports failures, as far as I can see
[14:40] <Quintasan> I was about to type this
[14:40] <JontheEchidna> All ports excpet powerpc I believe are a bit busted at the moment
[14:41] <Quintasan> persia: AFAIK ports are most problematic
[14:41] <JontheEchidna> wait, not powerpc
[14:41] <Quintasan> armel?
[14:41] <JontheEchidna> sparc
[14:41] <JontheEchidna> all ports except sparc are busted due to failures at a lower-level than kde
[14:42] <Quintasan> Not much I can do about this :P
[14:42]  * persia is done with questions, but generally encourages existing developers to let candidates answer questions, as it becomes hard to judge knowledge of processes and procedures, and technical skills when the answers come from many directions :)
[14:43] <persia> dholbach: geser: ?
[14:43]  * dholbach is done too
[14:43] <geser> no further questions
[14:43] <JontheEchidna> oh, sorry :P
[14:43] <persia> Quintasan: Apologies, but apparently we've a couple ill council members today.  We'll start voting, but have to finish via email.
[14:44] <persia> [VOTE] MOTU Application for Michal Zajac
[14:44] <MootBot> Please vote on:  MOTU Application for Michal Zajac.
[14:44] <MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
[14:44] <MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
[14:44] <persia> +1 : with this level of support from the rest of the Kubuntu folk, I'm confident any remaining wrinkles will be flattened soon.
[14:44] <MootBot> +1 received from persia. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
[14:44] <geser> +1
[14:44] <MootBot> +1 received from geser. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
[14:44] <dholbach> +1
[14:44] <MootBot> +1 received from dholbach. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
[14:45] <JontheEchidna> Quintasan: good luck with the rest
[14:45] <Quintasan> JontheEchidna, ScottK, Riddell: thanks for showing up :)
[14:45] <ScottK> No problem.  Glad to be here.
[14:45] <Quintasan> dholbach, persia, geser: Thanks guys!
[14:45] <persia> [ENDVOTE]
[14:45] <MootBot> Final result is 3 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 3
[14:45] <dholbach> Quintasan: keep up the good work!
[14:46] <persia> Quintasan: With luck you'll get a firm answer in the next few days.
[14:46] <persia> [TOPIC] Business before MOTU Council
[14:46] <MootBot> New Topic:  Business before MOTU Council
[14:46] <Quintasan> I bet I will be checking my mail every few minutes :P
[14:46] <persia> Nobody put anything on the agenda.  Does anyone have any ad-hoc items?
[14:46] <dholbach> persia: just who takes care of processing the applications
[14:47] <persia> I'll do that today, as well as update the headers and the report.
[14:47] <dholbach> persia: thanks muchly!
[14:47]  * dholbach has no further business
[14:47] <persia> OK.  As a reminder, the next meeting has been postponed in favour of being lazy at year-end.
[14:48] <persia> We'll be reconvening 8th December, at 7:00 UTC.
[14:48] <geser> December?
[14:48] <persia> Right!
[14:48] <dholbach> January :)
[14:48]  * persia is getting an early start of the being lazy bit :)
[14:48] <dholbach> hehe
[14:48] <persia> We'll be reconvening 8th *January*, at 7:00 UTC.
[14:49] <persia> #endmeeting
[14:49] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 08:49.
[14:49] <dholbach> thanks a bunch everybody!
[14:50] <geser> woohoo, that was the last MC meeting for this year :)
[14:52] <dholbach> geser: you're right :)
[14:53] <geser> wasn't it even the last MC meeting for this decade?
[14:53] <Quintasan> :O
[14:53] <dholbach> that we still have to find out :)
[14:55] <geser> doesn't 2010 start the new decade?
[14:55] <cyphermox> geser, it does
[14:57] <dholbach> oh well, sorry guys :)
[15:15] <mhall119|work> I thought 2011 started the new decade
[15:18] <geirha> Doesn't every year start a new decade?
[15:44] <ScottK> mhall119|work is technically correct since there was no year 0.
[15:58] <pitti> o/
[15:58]  * asac waves
[15:58] <jiboumans> \\o
[15:59]  * ogra lurks
[15:59]  * apw zones in
[15:59] <ttx> o/
[16:00]  * marjo wave
[16:00]  * slangasek waves
[16:03] <slangasek> robbiew, cjwatson, davidm, rickspencer3, Riddell, ScottK, njpatel, jdstrand: ping
[16:03] <robbiew> o/
[16:03] <rickspencer3> hi
[16:03] <njpatel> hey
[16:03] <jdstrand> o/
[16:03] <Riddell> afternoon
[16:03] <slangasek> hi, all
[16:03] <slangasek> #startmeeting
[16:03] <MootBot> Meeting started at 10:03. The chair is slangasek.
[16:03] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[16:03] <ttx> cjwatson is away today, methink
[16:03] <mdz> \o
[16:04] <slangasek> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/2009-12-11
[16:04] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/2009-12-11
[16:04] <slangasek> [TOPIC] Actions from previous meeting
[16:04] <MootBot> New Topic:  Actions from previous meeting
[16:04] <slangasek> most of these I know were done
[16:04] <pitti> ah, I talked to dbarth
[16:04] <slangasek>   * asac to announce https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/Thumb2 to the broader developer community
[16:04] <pitti> and also left the questions in the whiteboard
[16:04] <asac> done (today)
[16:04]  * pitti checks
[16:04] <slangasek> ok, great
[16:05] <pitti> hm, wasn't fixed yet, though
[16:06] <pitti> slangasek: but the plymouth MIR is filed, anyway
[16:06] <slangasek> ok
[16:06]  * ogra is really curious how that will behave on armel
[16:06] <slangasek> pitti: so I think we can strike that from the list as well
[16:08] <slangasek> [TOPIC] final spec lists to<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[16:08] <MootBot> New Topic:  final spec lists to<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[16:08] <slangasek> just a brief reminder about this, since I haven't received any new ones since last week - I have foundations and desktop, and that's it
[16:08] <asac> in what form?
[16:08] <asac> oh i think i can look at what was send
[16:08] <asac> nevermind
[16:09]  * apw missed that action, applogies
[16:09] <slangasek> you can check the list archive for examples - https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2009-December/
[16:09] <pitti> slangasek: would you mind if I go first today, since I need to leave in 20 mins? (sorry, big family event)
[16:10] <slangasek> I'm not too fussy about the form of the mail, I just want to make sure we have something that details, from your own mouths, what your team considers the priorities for this cycle to make sure we're all on the same page
[16:10] <slangasek> pitti: ok
[16:10] <slangasek> [TOPIC] Desktop Team
[16:10] <MootBot> New Topic:  Desktop Team
[16:10] <slangasek> pitti: let's get right to it, then :)
[16:10] <pitti> thanks
[16:11] <pitti> as usual, our report is on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus
[16:11] <pitti> activity this week: desktop startup speed, landed X.org halsectomy, started power-saving work, landed first wave of new DX indicator work
[16:11] <pitti> a2 work items: on track
[16:11] <pitti> RC bug status: pretty calm
[16:11] <slangasek> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus
[16:11] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus
[16:11] <pitti> I expect that the bugs will come once we enable apport again (retracer chroots are now set up, BTW)
[16:12] <pitti> there are a couple of X crashes which we need more info on, but right now the apport bit of X is disabled (needs porting)
[16:12] <pitti> but by and large the udevified X caused way less trouble than anticipated
[16:13] <slangasek> I'll withhold my own judgement on that until my X server stops crashing when I close my lid ;)
[16:13] <pitti> oh?
[16:13] <slangasek> bug is filed - just an idle comment, don't worry about it :)
[16:13] <pitti> wrt desktop-lucid-une: Didier Roche will work on this, but he only starts on January 7th
[16:14] <pitti> so we'll handle that during his induction sprint in Paris that week
[16:14] <asac> hmm. on arm i saw some udev complains on console and X didnt start. thought it was something else with our install;... so there were udev related changes to X?
[16:14] <asac> but lets talk about that after meeting
[16:14] <pitti> asac: it should start either way; what can happen is that you don't have any input devices
[16:15] <pitti> asac: bug report with x log and udevadm info --export-db would be appreciated
[16:15] <pitti> (please subscribe me)
[16:15] <asac> yeah. i wasnt that far yet ;).
[16:15] <slangasek> pitti: the release status page misses the bug link for the nv crasher bug; is that on your radar elsewhere?
[16:16] <pitti> oops, sorry
[16:16] <slangasek> (494627, fwiw)
[16:16] <pitti> bug 494627, will add to the page now
[16:17] <slangasek> pitti: any concerns about other specs targeted for alpha-2?
[16:17] <pitti> the one that's really big and potentially in jeopardy is social-from-the-start
[16:18] <pitti> OTOH it's not a dealbreaker if it slips
[16:18] <pitti> it's just on a2 because it has rather intrusive changes
[16:18] <slangasek> ok
[16:18] <pitti> but by and large I think we're on track
[16:18] <slangasek> great
[16:18] <slangasek> any questions for desktop from others?
[16:19] <slangasek> [TOPIC] QA Team
[16:19] <MootBot> New Topic:  QA Team
[16:19] <slangasek> pitti: thanks
[16:19] <slangasek> marjo: hi
[16:20] <marjo> * Hardware testing
[16:20] <marjo> Netbook:
[16:20] <marjo>         passed: 9 (69%) failed: 0 (0%)  untested: 4 (31%)
[16:20] <marjo> Laptop:
[16:20] <marjo>         passed: 22 (86%) failed: 2 (7%)  untested: 2 (7%)
[16:20] <marjo> Server:
[16:20] <marjo>         passed: 13 (25%) failed: 33 (62%)        untested: 7 (13%)
[16:20] <marjo> Desktop:
[16:20] <marjo>         passed: 12 (100%) failed: 0 (0%)  untested: 0 (0%)
[16:20] <pitti> oops, what happened on server?
[16:21] <fader_> pitti: bug 494052
[16:21] <pitti> ah, so it's like "one major bug which affects many machines"?
[16:21] <fader_> It's a popular network card and it's not being initialized properly, preventing the install
[16:21] <slangasek> yep
[16:21] <fader_> pitti: indeed
[16:21] <pitti> *phew*
[16:21] <fader_> Hehe
[16:21] <slangasek> I've proposed a permanent fix for that class of bug in bug #494774
[16:22] <marjo> pitti: i know you're already looking for 100%s all around
[16:22] <marjo> give it some time, we'll get there!
[16:22] <slangasek> marjo: are the two laptop failures anything that need to be discussed?
[16:22] <marjo> fader_ promises so
[16:23] <slangasek> and was 494052 the /only/ bug hampering us on server?
[16:23] <marjo> http://people.canonical.com/~fader/hw-testing/current.html
[16:23] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~fader/hw-testing/current.html
[16:24] <marjo> same bug, 2 failures
[16:24] <fader_> slangasek: The laptop failures were X starting in low-graphics mode, but it seems to be fixed now
[16:24] <marjo> is that what you meant?
[16:24] <fader_> I'll ask moustafa to double-check that in the lab
[16:24] <slangasek> ok
[16:24] <fader_> And yes, that is the only distro bug we're currently seeing on servers
[16:24] <slangasek> not a bad result after all, then :)
[16:24] <marjo> that's pretty good this early on
[16:25] <marjo> imho
[16:25] <fader_> (there were a couple of power issues but those don't seem to be bugs in the distro but environmental/hardware issues)
[16:26] <marjo> slangasek ready for alpha1 test report?
[16:26] <slangasek> marjo: do we need to discuss anything on lucid-qa-checkbox-desktop-experience-tests?  it missed the alpha-1 target, but I don't know that it's anything we need to discuss here?
[16:26] <slangasek> marjo: oh, yes, please go ahead with that first
[16:26] <marjo> oh, sorry
[16:26] <marjo> * UbuntuSpec:lucid-qa-checkbox-desktop-experience-tests
[16:26] <marjo> [cr3] Add DX PPA when testing and reboot if new packages are discovered: INPROGRESS
[16:27] <marjo> Lucid Alpha 1 Test Report
[16:27] <marjo> 2009-12-11
[16:27] <marjo> = Summary =
[16:27] <marjo> == Test Coverage ==
[16:27] <marjo> Image Test Coverage = 72%
[16:27] <marjo> Test Case Coverage = 55%
[16:27] <marjo> The main reason of the low coverage is that images were not installable
[16:27] <marjo> until Wednesday morning, leaving only one day for testing the final images.
[16:28] <marjo> overall, quite good coverage for alpha1
[16:28]  * ScottK is here now.
[16:28]  * pitti waves; sorry, have to leave; please direct desktopish questions to rickspencer3
[16:28] <slangasek> pitti: thanks, have fun
[16:28] <marjo> [16:28] <marjo> 23 Test Failures
[16:28] <marjo> Failure Rate 23/181 = 12.7%
[16:28] <mdz> marjo: in light of the reduced coverage, will we continue to test alpha 1 until we get full coverage, or is that not worthwhile at this point?
[16:29] <marjo> mdz: we could do that, let's see if we can keep the testers going
[16:29] <marjo> since all is set up now
[16:29] <slangasek> the untested images consist of DVDs + edubuntu + mythbuntu + ubuntustudio, I believe
[16:30] <mdz> the DVDs have some testing but not full coverage
[16:30] <slangasek> I don't think it's worth having people test DVDs that we don't mean to publish; any problems they find are so unlikely to apply to the next milestone
[16:30] <marjo> slangasek: so, we focus the testing appropriately that way
[16:30] <slangasek> oh, so they do - those results came in after alpha-1 was published without the DVDs then
[16:31] <marjo> slangasek: it doesn't hurt to test anyway right?
[16:31] <slangasek> marjo: as long as you're not burning up your testers' good will :)
[16:31] <mdz> the DVD tests have found some bugs
[16:31] <marjo> slangasek: practice makes perfect, but i agree w/ you
[16:32] <mdz> bug 495194 notably which seems potentially DVD-specific
[16:32] <marjo> the more we get testers in the groove now, i think will make things go smoother later
[16:33] <slangasek> ok
[16:33] <marjo> == Bugs summary ==
[16:33] <marjo> [16:33] <marjo> 26 bugs unfixed
[16:33] <marjo> Critical - 3
[16:33] <marjo> #489791  	 Compilation fails because of changed interface in libpoppler  		Fix Released
[16:33] <marjo> #491342 	assembly fails to build on armel/lucid												Fix Released
[16:33] <marjo> #494027 	After upgrade to KDE 4.4 beta in Lucid, no KDE applications will start.	Fix Released
[16:33] <marjo> High - 5
[16:33] <marjo> Medium - 2
[16:33] <marjo> Low - 1
[16:33] <marjo> Undecided - 15
[16:33] <marjo> [16:33] <marjo> 3 bugs fixed
[16:33] <marjo> High - 1
[16:33] <marjo> Medium - 1
[16:33] <marjo> Unknown - 1
[16:34] <mdz> marjo: the 3 critical bugs under 'unfixed' all say 'fixed released'; what does that mean?
[16:34] <slangasek> all three of the *un*fixed issues are marked "Fix released"?
[16:34] <marjo> full report will follow in email
[16:34] <marjo> that means at the time report was written, they were showing critical and not fixed released yet
[16:35] <marjo> when i looked this morning, they were "fix released"
[16:35] <marjo> already
[16:35] <slangasek> ok
[16:35] <marjo> timing issue, i think
[16:35] <marjo> that's all for QA
[16:35] <slangasek> is anyone triaging the 'undecided' bugs to make sure they get importances and targets set appropriately?
[16:36] <marjo> yes
[16:36] <slangasek> ok, thanks
[16:36] <slangasek> anyone have questions for QA?
[16:37] <marjo> thx all
[16:37] <slangasek> [TOPIC] DX Team
[16:37] <MootBot> New Topic:  DX Team
[16:37] <slangasek> marjo: thanks
[16:37] <slangasek> njpatel: hi, are you covering for DX?
[16:38] <njpatel> slangasek: I can try :)
[16:38] <slangasek> the one agenda item I had up for DX is dx-lucid-xsplash - does that appear to be on track?
[16:39] <slangasek> I gather that the next step is one you're waiting for scott on
[16:39] <njpatel> I'm finding out
[16:39] <slangasek> do you want us to move along and come back to you?
[16:39] <Keybuk> waiting for me?
[16:39] <Keybuk> or another scott?
[16:39] <slangasek> Keybuk: you
[16:40] <njpatel> slangasek: dbarth seems to have not made it, so can we come back to dx? I'll try and get some info 'till then
[16:40] <Keybuk> slangasek: I'm not aware of anyone waiting on me for anything
[16:40] <slangasek> Keybuk: "get xsplash prototype from scott: TODO"
[16:40] <Keybuk> slangasek: DX haz it
[16:40] <slangasek> ah, whiteboard needs updating then :)
[16:40] <slangasek> njpatel: yep, sounds good
[16:40] <slangasek> [TOPIC] Mobile Team
[16:40] <MootBot> New Topic:  Mobile Team
[16:40] <slangasek> asac, ogra: hello
[16:40] <asac> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/ReleaseStatus/Lucid
[16:40] <slangasek> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/ReleaseStatus/Lucid
[16:40] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/ReleaseStatus/Lucid
[16:40] <ogra> here
[16:41] <asac> so we had problems with hardware and image production
[16:41] <asac> but managed to get a bootable image in the end ;)
[16:41] <asac> for imx51
[16:41] <ogra> (we always have probs with HW production :) )
[16:41] <asac> so not much progress was done on other bugs this week
[16:42]  * slangasek nods
[16:42] <ogra> it had installer issues due to a cryptsetup bug which we fixed today
[16:42] <asac> also our dove port owner is on vacation ... so we need to catch up next week
[16:42] <asac> yeah. 495161: cryptsetup: initramfs-tools cryproot hook adds >10M to initrd size ... got fixed now
[16:43] <slangasek> ogra, asac: is the missing /lib/modules/$(uname -r)/kernel/arch/.../crypto directory also a bug, btw?
[16:43] <ogra> nope
[16:43] <asac> slangasek: seems its  built-in
[16:43] <slangasek> ok
[16:43] <ogra> our encryption device is compiled in on the SoC
[16:43] <ogra> we need to cross check on dove though
[16:43] <slangasek> glad that got fixed; too bad it missed alpha-1
[16:44] <asac> yeah. but there is a workaround you can use to install the image ... so its not that bad ;)
[16:44] <ogra> yeah
[16:44] <ogra> well, we have a workaround i'Äm just trying out
[16:44] <ogra> but i discovered other odd things, seems compcache doesnt behave niocely on armel atm
[16:45] <ogra> i'll have ot research that more before filing a bug
[16:45] <asac> on the blueprint side we are slightly behind, but there are ab unch of low hanging fruits we can go for to get below the trend line for alpha-2
[16:45] <asac> so i think we are on track there in general
[16:46] <ogra> (the chart robbiew pointed to didnt look like we're behind)
[16:46] <slangasek> hum, if you're doing the low-hanging fruit to get below the trend line, doesn't that mean you'll be pressed at the end? :)
[16:46] <asac> slangasek: no. those were tasks to be done in the beginning anyway. its not picking easy stuff from the end
[16:47] <slangasek> you guys have several specs marked essential for alpha-2; anything that should be discussd there?
[16:47] <slangasek> gcc v7+thumb2 is in the archive for a while, I know - are the build failures manageable at this point?
[16:48] <asac> so far yes. but i expect more to come
[16:48] <slangasek> alright
[16:48] <asac> dave martin from arm prepared a list of packages that are potential causing issues. so we will go through that proativeyl now
[16:49] <asac> (with help of kees)
[16:49] <slangasek> ok, great
[16:49] <asac> that list was supposed to be on the thumb2 wiki by now
[16:49] <asac> will prod him
[16:49] <asac> the others essential ones look good
[16:49] <asac> 2d-launcher waits for a code drop
[16:50] <asac> but once we have that it should go quick
[16:50] <ogra> uboot just needs code cleanup of the proof of concept and different defaults in the package
[16:50] <slangasek> who's responsible for that code drop?
[16:50] <asac> OEM
[16:50] <ogra> one or two days at most
[16:51] <slangasek> (should that be a work item on https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/mobile-lucid-une-2d-launcher, assigned to them?)
[16:51]  * asac  checks
[16:51] <asac> its in status atm
[16:51] <slangasek> yes, which means it doesn't get on the reports :)
[16:51] <slangasek> (AFAIK)
[16:52] <asac> i will check whats the status
[16:52] <asac> and add it as work item
[16:52] <slangasek> thanks
[16:52] <asac> if there seems to be something not on track
[16:52] <slangasek> anything else on mobile?  any questions for them?
[16:53] <asac> not from me
[16:53] <ScottK> FYI, qt4-x11 is now built on armel
[16:53]  * ogra noticed that :)
[16:53] <ogra> ScottK, what about the rest of KDE land ?
[16:53] <slangasek> ScottK: how did your kubuntu arm build fare?
[16:54] <ScottK> Currently kde4libs FTBFS due to qreal stuff.
[16:54] <ogra> slangasek, mostly FTBFS due to qt
[16:54] <ScottK> Riddell has a test build going in the porter's PPA now.
[16:54] <ScottK> So we've started work.
[16:54] <slangasek> the image build, I meant
[16:54] <slangasek> or did you never get that far?
[16:54] <ogra> didnt NCommander fix that several times already ?
[16:54] <ogra> (qreal)
[16:54] <ScottK> slangasek: We haven't been installable for quite some time
[16:54] <asac> ScottK: Riddell: remember to file bugs with armel/armv7 tag and ubuntu-armel subscribed
[16:55] <ogra> yeah
[16:55] <ScottK> So no Kubuntu builds for armel yet
[16:55] <ScottK> (ISO builds)
[16:55]  * slangasek nods
[16:55] <asac> do we need to make a spec or something we can track for kde-arm?
[16:56] <ScottK> ogra: NCommander has been a huge help, but we get new qreal stuff every release.  We've talked to upstream and they're trying to train people to avoid it.
[16:56] <ScottK> asac: No, we'll do it as part of our Kubuntu work.
[16:56] <asac> ok
[16:56] <ScottK> ... and scream when we need help.
[16:56] <ogra> asac, we just need to give them the buildds from time to time :)
[16:56] <ogra> so the big chunk can be uploaded
[16:57] <asac> ok. cool. thx ScottK.
[16:57] <slangasek> anything els?
[16:57] <slangasek> +e
[16:58] <ogra> not here
[16:58] <asac> move on.
[16:58] <slangasek> [TOPIC] Server Team
[16:58] <MootBot> New Topic:  Server Team
[16:58] <ttx> o/
[16:58] <slangasek> asac, ogra: thanks
[16:58] <slangasek> ttx: hello
[16:58] <ttx> Team status updated at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/ReleaseStatus
[16:58] <ttx> now with graphs !
[16:58] <slangasek> njpatel: shout when you're ready for me to come back to you, btw
[16:58] <slangasek> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/ReleaseStatus
[16:58] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/ReleaseStatus
[16:59] <ttx> Testing of ISOs early in the week allowed us to spot the most blocking issues for alpha1
[16:59] <ttx> and fix them before the candidate was baked
[16:59] <njpatel> slangasek: no new news unfortunately :( It seems like the only change is receiving the prototype from scrott
[16:59] <njpatel> er, scott
[16:59] <ttx> all in all alpha1 is pretty good, with Eucalyptus 1.6.1 landed and usable
[17:00] <ttx> we'll break that next week by going to 1.6.2
[17:00] <ttx> Progress on  the alpha 2 targeted spec is OK, as the burndown charts nicely show
[17:00] <ttx> specs*
[17:01] <ttx> Alpha1 ISO testing uncoeverd a few bugs that we targeted to Lucid
[17:01] <ttx> the most painful one being bug 494595, because it's difficult to investigate
[17:02] <ttx> That's about it from us... questions ?
[17:04] <slangasek> server-lucid-uec-testing says there should be testing happening at A1, but the test plans aren't written yet - is that in progress somewhere?
[17:04] <jiboumans> slangasek: the spec IS to create tests
[17:05] <slangasek> so the work items about testing at a1 should be dropped?
[17:05] <ttx> jiboumans: right there are some abusive work items in that spec
[17:05] <mdz> slangasek has a point, there are work items due for A1
[17:05] <mdz> ttx: abusive?
[17:05] <ttx> or I'd say "optimistic"
[17:05] <mdz> I'd say "late"
[17:05] <mdz> :-)
[17:06] <jiboumans> ah, i thought he was referring to the wiki section of 'test plan'
[17:06] <jiboumans> right, late is the right answer in that case. alpha1 was a 'nice to have', alpha2 is the real target
[17:06] <slangasek> ok
[17:06] <ttx> well, we applied the test plan as it currently stands -- which is an empty one :)
[17:07] <jiboumans> (which is why the spec itself is targeted for alpha2)
[17:07] <jiboumans> practically, mathiaz is on holiday and we lack some of the hardware to do the tests
[17:07] <mdz> jiboumans: we can use alpha 1 to exercise the test infrastructure when it's ready
[17:07] <jiboumans> mdz: exactly
[17:07] <slangasek> when is mathiaz back from holiday?
[17:07] <ttx> wednesday.
[17:08] <mdz> though it won't support all of the configurations
[17:08] <jiboumans> next wednesday, the 16th
[17:08] <mdz> so we should change "for A1" to "on A1" I suppose
[17:09] <ttx> mdz: i'm on it.
[17:09] <slangasek> ok, so we probably won't see much progress on this by next week either... not too many more weeks before alpha-2, and that's a long list of work items - you guys are still comfortable that this is going to make it for alpha-2?
[17:09] <jiboumans> slangasek: hardware delivery permitting
[17:10] <slangasek> ok
[17:10] <slangasek> anything else on server?
[17:10] <ttx> fixed.
[17:11] <slangasek> [TOPIC] DX Team
[17:11] <MootBot> New Topic:  DX Team
[17:11] <slangasek> ttx, jiboumans: thanks
[17:12] <slangasek> njpatel: "the only change is receiving the prototype from scott" - so everyone involved knows what needs to happen next?
[17:12] <slangasek> (i.e., they're aware they're unblocked by Keybuk, even if the whiteboard isn't)
[17:13] <njpatel> slangasek: yes -- and in case david doesn't know, I've already sent him a mail
[17:13] <slangasek> ok
[17:13] <slangasek> does anyone else have other concerns to raise with DX?
[17:14] <slangasek> njpatel: you get off easy today, then :)
[17:14] <slangasek> [TOPIC] Kernel Team
[17:14] <MootBot> New Topic:  Kernel Team
[17:14] <slangasek> apw: hi
[17:14] <apw> Overall Kernel Team status is summarised at the URL below, including the items called out in the agenda.  The AppArmor item from last week did not make the Alpha-1 upload due to a last minute kitten killer, but will be in the first upload of Alpha-2.  So far our main alpha-2 deliverables are on track, ubuntu-delta updates are ahead of schedule.
[17:14] <apw> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Lucid
[17:14] <njpatel> slangasek: sweet :)
[17:14] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Lucid
[17:14] <apw> Note of caution regarding the embedded burn down charts, it seems we have lost some 10 items since yesterday, and I have not yet figured out where they have gone.  I believe we would remain below the trend line ... but ...
[17:14] <apw> Lucid kernel update is ready for upload post Alpha-1, this contains a large number of updates to ubuntu drivers.  Of note we have an updates AppArmor matching that going upstream, also we are enabling KMS for ATI Radeon (x-team is aware).  This also includes the first patches to help with the boot performance goal.
[17:16] <slangasek> nice
[17:18] <slangasek> no questions here
[17:18] <slangasek> anyone else?
[17:18] <Riddell> I didn't give a Kubuntu update, it would have said we got KDE SC 4.4 beta 1 uploaded
[17:19] <Riddell> and that beta 2 is due to be tagged sometime next week
[17:19] <slangasek> Riddell: I meant "anyone else have kernel issues to mention" :)
[17:20] <Riddell> oh right :)
[17:20] <slangasek> (but thanks for the report)
[17:21] <slangasek> [TOPIC] Security Team
[17:21] <MootBot> New Topic:  Security Team
[17:21] <slangasek> apw: thanks
[17:21] <slangasek> jdstrand: hi
[17:21] <jdstrand> hi
[17:22] <jdstrand> so, our status page moved to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/ReleaseStatus/Lucid
[17:22] <slangasek> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/ReleaseStatus/Lucid
[17:22] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/ReleaseStatus/Lucid
[17:23] <jdstrand> there isn't a lot to report (like last week). Due to the nature of the security team's work (ie security updates take precedence over dev work), we aren't committing to alpha-2 stuff
[17:23] <jdstrand> that said, we are plugging away at our specs as time allows, and are so far on track
[17:24] <jdstrand> no problems so far
[17:24] <jdstrand> that's pretty much it for now. any questions for the security team?
[17:25] <slangasek> not from me
[17:26] <slangasek> anyone else?
[17:26] <slangasek> [TOPIC] Foundations Team
[17:26] <MootBot> New Topic:  Foundations Team
[17:26] <slangasek> jdstrand: thanks
[17:26] <slangasek> robbiew: around?
[17:26] <jdstrand> sure :)
[17:26] <slangasek> cjwatson: ping?
[17:27]  * robbiew recalls him needing to run an errand, but I thought he had arranged for backup :/
[17:27] <ScottK> cjwatson: is on holiday today.
[17:27] <ScottK> (I think)
[17:27] <slangasek> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/ReleaseStatus/Lucid
[17:27] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/ReleaseStatus/Lucid
[17:28] <robbiew> we're under the line for Alpha2...so things are good ;)
[17:28] <slangasek> huh, looks like we also lost some work items in the latest report
[17:28] <robbiew> the alpha 2 chart was broken
[17:28] <robbiew> cjwatson noticed yesterday and fixed it
[17:28] <robbiew> well...asked pitti to fix it ;)
[17:29] <slangasek> and that's why the main chart has fewer work items now? ok
[17:29] <robbiew> um..yeah
[17:29] <robbiew> heh
[17:30] <slangasek> does dbarth know he has a workitem for foundations that blocks an alpha-2 spec?
[17:30] <robbiew> the xsplash security review one?
[17:30] <slangasek> I don't think the burndown charts address letting people from other teams /know/ they're assigned to workitems
[17:30] <slangasek> robbiew: "develop  greeter offering choice between "Try Ubuntu without installing" and "Install Ubuntu""
[17:31] <robbiew> ah
[17:31] <robbiew> yes
[17:31]  * robbiew was cc'd on an email from cjwatson
[17:31] <robbiew> to dbarth
[17:31] <slangasek> ok
[17:31] <robbiew> so he /should/ know
[17:31] <slangasek> not worrying, then
[17:31] <robbiew> fwiw, I think the assignee of the blueprint should let others know
[17:32] <slangasek> agreed
[17:32] <slangasek> anyone have any questions on foundations?
[17:32] <robbiew> and just a shout out for plymouth being uploaded and working....at least for me ;)
[17:32] <slangasek> I need to test that after the meeting :)
[17:32] <robbiew> in universe...but MIR has been submitted
[17:33] <ScottK> Python coordination with Debian is progressing, but is taking a lot of effort.
[17:33] <robbiew> \o/
[17:33] <ScottK> slangasek: I sent a mail to u-d-a on Boost that needs to be moderated.
[17:34] <slangasek> (moderated)
[17:34] <ScottK> Thanks.
[17:34] <slangasek> anything else on foundations?
[17:35] <slangasek> [TOPIC] MOTU
[17:35] <MootBot> New Topic:  MOTU
[17:35] <ScottK> Nothing to report.
[17:35]  * ScottK didn't have time to work on the binary removal spec
[17:36] <slangasek> is there someone else who could help with some of that, while you're busy with python?
[17:37] <ScottK> Anyone who's got a little time and can do some grep/shell or python work to sort through stuff
[17:37]  * ScottK can provide advice.
[17:37] <slangasek> but you don't have a volunteer in mind, ok :)
[17:38] <james_w> just a note that when the code on piware is updated from the branch and works again things like this should work:
[17:38] <james_w> http://www.piware.de/workitems/global/lucid/report.html#james-w
[17:38] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://www.piware.de/workitems/global/lucid/report.html#james-w
[17:38] <RoAkSoAx> ScottK, i do!
[17:38] <slangasek> james_w: oh, nice
[17:38] <james_w> which will take you directly to your list of all workitems across all teams
[17:38] <ScottK> RoAkSoAx: Excellent.  Let's chat after the meeting.
[17:38] <RoAkSoAx> ScottK, sure!
[17:38] <ScottK> Any other questions for MOTU?
[17:38] <slangasek> [ACTION] ScottK and RoAkSoAx to discuss hand-off of part of the binary removal spec
[17:38] <MootBot> ACTION received:  ScottK and RoAkSoAx to discuss hand-off of part of the binary removal spec
[17:39] <slangasek> RoAkSoAx: great, thank you :)
[17:39] <slangasek> no questions here
[17:39] <RoAkSoAx> slangasek, no prob :)
[17:39] <slangasek> anything else before we wrap?
[17:39] <slangasek> #endmeeting
[17:39] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:39.
[17:39] <slangasek> done.  thanks, folks!
[17:41] <ScottK> RoAkSoAx: Would you please join #ubuntuwire
[17:42] <asac> thx


 @dohbee [i think it was, just not in a version that was shipped on the phone yet], ah i see
 @Lyokanthrope [Inexpensive and it supports display out which I'm massively excited about tbh], same tbh
 Note for the Pinephone: external display support might be a little strange. The A64 technically supports multiple displays out, but all of the ports share a few key clocks
 So unless you've got a 1440x700 monitor lying around, I don't think we'll be able to drive both displays at once
 @UniversalSuperBox [Note for the Pinephone: external display support might be a little strange. The …], Meh, I'm fine if it disables the onboard display
 1440x720 rather
 @UniversalSuperBox [1440x720 rather], so only that resolution is supported?
 No, that's the only resolution where you could run both the internal and external displays simultaneously
 ah interesting
 There's probably more details than that I don't know
 hmmm
 running both displays now is a bit useless because the OSK/touchpad is not working as intended yet, I hope that will change in the future of course
 still way more than expected for a phone priced around $150 :)
 Totally
 @malditobastardo [running both displays now is a bit useless because the OSK/touchpad is not worki …], it is tho? i can see a small notepad on the small screen with a video on the bigger one :p
 Except you can't do that right noe
 except on a 1440 720 i assume :p … ohw ait its the way external screens are handled right now huh
 [Edit] except on a 1440 720 i assume :p … ohw wait its the way external screens are handled right now huh
 In ubuntu touch is it possible to change the device form factor on the fly with a terminal command?
 wut?
 do you mean windowed mode?
 I mean things like changing the px/gu and changing the form factor between handset and tablet
 @malditobastardo [running both displays now is a bit useless because the OSK/touchpad is not worki …], I'm excited for UT to support workspaces which can be assigned to each display, Staged on device display and windowed on external 😍
 @TotalSonic [Why does age of the device matter to some people?  First - as mentioned it is a …], Note that the C port is only for fast charging, unfortunately Meiizu capped the data transfer to 2.0 speeds.
[13:25] <ubptgbot> Ahmad was added by: Ahmad
 (Photo, 476x250) https://irc.ubports.com/LPyD50DV.png English: Very nice app. …  Record a video of someone (or yourself) press start the app will reverse all the actions taken by👌🏻 … A wonderful app, a very entertaining and fascinating magic trick. … To load. press here. … https://g.ayhamtech.com/2019/07/blog-post_13.html?m=1
 @Ahmad [<reply to media>], @UniversalSuperBox spam
 Gone
 @Javacookies [I'm excited for UT to support workspaces which can be assigned to each display, …], Oh. True. It wasn't merged yet right?
 @TotalSonic [as an owner of both a OnePlus One and Meizu Pro 5 - I agree that PinePhone's spe …], bingo.
 @malditobastardo [Oh. True. It wasn't merged yet right?], correct
 Is there any way we can adapt the sound indicator to talk to audio-playng apps in Libertine?
 [Edit] Is there any way we can adapt the sound indicator to talk to audio-playing apps in Libertine?
 @TartanSpartan [Is there any way we can adapt the sound indicator to talk to audio-playing apps …], does said app support MPRIS?
 I'd need to check but I wasn't thinking of any one specific app.
 @TuxThePenguin [I mean things like changing the px/gu and changing the form factor between hands …], changing scaling can be done with UT, but simulating a tablet on a handset and vice versa, i don't believe that's currently possible
 @Javacookies [I'm excited for UT to support workspaces which can be assigned to each display, …], woohoo
 media hub for legacy apps? hmmm
[18:24] <ubptgbot> AndrewSChapman was added by: AndrewSChapman
 @AndrewSChapman [AndrewSChapman was added by: UniversalSuperBox], Welcome!
 Oh! If that user is who I think he is   \o/
 But if you aren't who I think, welcome anyway! 😄
 When you read about people saying the PinePhone is not exciting, and you are literally planning to upgrade to it as a daily driver.
 well, think of it like travelling on an airplane. boring flights are preferable to the excitement of crashing into the sea
 For me it is just that modern phones are mostly far too big for me. And the PinePhone is pretty much the same phone I have right now, just with a bigger battery and the possibility to use ubuntu touch on it.
 Not to be under surveillance by big tech compagnies is exciting for some people.
 I would like to have a better phone, but there is literally no one selling one for me. (even with just android)
 I guess the pine phone will also be one of the, if not *the*, cheapest device to run ubuntu touch on.
 Q&A is live btw :)
 Thanks
 👍
 We're live! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_-ajpTvHRE
 @ubports_qa_team
 http://docs.ubports.com/en/latest/contribute/quality-assurance.html
 uh, is it really close enough to current devel to move it over?
 @dohbee [uh, is it really close enough to current devel to move it over?], soon (TM)
 Hey guys, thanks for all your hard work.  Greatly appreciated.
 @wayneTBT [Hey guys, thanks for all your hard work.  Greatly appreciated.], Welcome ^^
 Thanks for your dedication to TELEports.  Amazing.
 I have a question... maybe not on the top of your list, do you intend to add a feature to be able to import .ovpn files into the VPN tab on UT?
 well, we could theoretically switch to new kernels on devices where pmOS upstream work has been completed enough that the device would be usable without android
 hmmm interesting
 I have question. Would add translations TelePORTS in Russian?
 and others UBPorts apps
 @liberacuriser [I have question. Would add translations TelePORTS in Russian?], should be set up on weblate i think, and just needs someone to maintain the translations there
 [Edit] and other UBPorts apps
 @liberacuriser [and other UBPorts apps], core apps are translatable through weblate. other apps will depend on what the developer prefers to do for translations, but i'm sure they'll take PRs where possible
 @liberacuriser [I have question. Would add translations TelePORTS in Russian?], You can start that translation at https://translate.ubports.com/projects/ubports/teleports/
 @liberacuriser [I have question. Would add translations TelePORTS in Russian?], You can add Russian if it is not there now: https://translate.ubports.com/projects/ubports/teleports/ - press the button add translation
 yes this one lol
 😄
 in weblate no projects TelePORTS to Russian
 Click on "Start new translation"
 oh
 I do it for you
 thx
 @liberacuriser [thx], https://translate.ubports.com/projects/ubports/teleports/ru/
 That was fast :)
 @Flohack [https://translate.ubports.com/projects/ubports/teleports/ru/], thank you :3
 Thank you!
 @liberacuriser [thank you :3], now just to have an actual translator :3
 Wanna do some laid-back chat? Grab your mic and an optional camera and come on in. https://appear.in/ubports-chat
 (Photo, 1080x606) https://irc.ubports.com/dozJilkE.png
 I had a go at importing the ovpn file on the terminal but got this missing library error.
 I did also spot your tutorial in the docs for segregating the keys, I'll have a play with that.
 Nice to meet ye in appear_in.
 huh, seems that file is in the -gnome package
 @MotoFufu9k [For me it is just that modern phones are mostly far too big for me.  Guess I am not sure about buying it anymore.
 @MotoFufu9k [Also I just noticed that the PinePhone is 5.95" not 4.95" like I thought.. … Guess …], but it's also 2:1, not 16:9
 you need to look at physical dimensions of completed case, to make reasonable decision about size
 Yeah that is why I thought it would be small enought even though I thought it was 4.95"
 my current DD is 5.71" but it's the same size as my Nexus 5 lol
 [Edit] my current DD has a 5.71" display but it's the same physical size as my Nexus 5 lol
 The pinephone is almost one centimeter wider than my current one =,(
 yeah, mine's 5.8" and only slightly taller than my nexus 5
 Guess if I actually want to use ubuntu touch on my phone, I will need to get into halium
 Anbox: … Do we have some information anywhere on what's working and what's not (yet)?
 the forum thread about anbox development or testing, probably
 Link..?
 @UniversalSuperBox [We're live! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_-ajpTvHRE], "OTA ETA = ASAP" - Jan, 2019
 genius.
 Also, the drop down bar with all the tabs is confusing... I wonder wether that will change at some point
 @DC7IA [Anbox: … Do we have some information anywhere on what's working and what's not (y …], Like.. Does audio work? Internet connection..? What does not work..?
[21:35] <ubptgbot> mi_kue was added by: mi_kue
 Anbox on the M10 doesn't work at all, for one.
 Actually there is a forum thread and a gitlab I think.
 Will Signal via Anbox have Push Notifications and Calls..?0
 Probably not push
 @DC7IA [Will Signal via Anbox have Push Notifications and Calls..?0], Push very unlikely. Calls one day when we can route hardwarea ccess into it, but its huge since you will have UT and Anbox to fight for hardware resources like Audio, Camera GPS etc.
 push can work with MicroG probably, but Anbox needs quite some work to be usable first
 @NotKit [push can work with MicroG probably, but Anbox needs quite some work to be usable …], Signal doesn't need GCM, it just keeps a connection open
 @DC7IA [Signal doesn't need GCM, it just keeps a connection open], App lifecycle should still apply to anbox apps
 @Flohack [Push very unlikely. Calls one day when we can route hardwarea ccess into it, but …], Nah, anbox apps should have to go through UT platform, so permissions and everything works as normal


[00:02] <tomreyn> Shreddies: waaay too many kernel parameters there. you have ACPI=off as well as acpi_osi=..., i doubt this can work out well
[00:02] <tomreyn> and then also acpi_mask_gpe=...
[00:03] <tomreyn> try removing at least acpi=off, maybe the acpi_osi's as well. and if you want output which *may* hint on what's failing:
[00:03] <tomreyn> !bootlog
 @ubottu, How do I shut down from the previous screen? Ctrl alt F5 isn't doing it.black screen with flashing "_"
[01:25] <tomreyn> Shreddies: ubottu is really just our mostly dumb channel bot here on IRC.
[01:25] <tomreyn> !sayhi
[01:25] <tomreyn> see, it's even too dumb to say hi
[01:26] <tomreyn> !bot
[01:27] <tomreyn> Shreddies: ctrl-alt-del should initiate a reboot from this screen still.
[01:28] <tomreyn> if it doesn't, then try the !sysrq approach as a last resport before the forced power off
[01:32] <IrcsomeBot2> J290777M was added by: J290777M
 Hello
[01:45] <tomreyn> hullo
 @tomreyn, Thanks. accidentally replied to the bot lol,bot still has some learning to do
[07:46] <lordievader> Good morning
[07:54] <Heavyarms__> hey!
[12:14] <viewer|44> i appear to be blocked at kubuntu forums - this has been the case for a few months maybe i am 'undesirable'??
[12:15] <viewer|44> i run kubuntu on my pc and have done so for many years
[12:16] <viewer|44> has anyone here any info regarding this?
[12:18] <viewer|44> I am non-plussed
[12:18] <viewer|44> perhaps I should try ubuntu forums instead
[12:20] <viewer|44> okay I'll see if I can get support elsewhere
 @viewer|44, Maybe it's FOSS has what you are looking for,depending on what is wrong...
[12:38] <BluesKaj> Howdy folks
[17:06] <IrcsomeBot2> dlemonis16 was added by: dlemonis16
 Welcome, Dimitris!
[18:32] <ssjp4> how to re-install Discover?
[18:34] <diogenes_> apt reinstall discover?
[18:40] <ssjp4> i'm not root...wtf...
[18:46] <genii> I generally use: sudo apt-get purge <whatever> && sudo apt-get install <whatever>
[18:49] <dax> and assuming you mean discover the software management thing, you're looking for (i think) plasma-discover, not discover
[18:49] <dax> because
[18:49] <dax> !info discover
[18:49] <dax> !info plasma-discover
[18:51] <genii> dax: Is 19.10 EOL ?
[18:52] <dax> no, 19.10 is the current non-LTS release
[18:52] <dax> 19.04 goes EOL next week, that might be what you're thinking of
[18:52] <genii> ...just wondering why the latest interim release which is not EOL is not the default for !info
[18:53] <dax> no idea, that's a Pici question
[18:53] <genii> Ah, OK
[18:53] <dax> (and the statement of this has, conveniently, highlighted them :3)
 I'm testing 5.18 beta on 20.04 with a laptop. Has anyone tried adjusting the screen brightness? The OSD shows the meter going up and down but the screen brightness doesn't change.
 Hey Guys do you know what the deal is with the following Situation: … - I'm running Kubuntu 18.04.3 … - I downloaded the 'KolourPaint' 19.12.1 (stable) FlatPak from flathub … - I pressed Print  … Application Dies! … So printing is not working on this flatpak, whereas if I were to just use the Deb thats in the repo, it works fine.  Issues with Flatpaks and Printers?
[20:56] <peter__> Hello evryone
[21:02] <peter__> #linuxjournal
[22:28] <administration>
[22:28] <administration>
[22:28] <administration>
[22:28] <administration>
[22:28] <administration>
[22:28] <administration>
[22:29] <administration>
[22:29] <administration>
[22:29] <administration>
[22:29] <administration>
[22:29] <administration>
[22:29] <administration>


[03:10] <tortib> I have a question, would it be frowned upon to sell Xubuntu USB flash drives on ebay?  Or is that considered piracy or something?
[11:25] <pavlushka> knome, http://i.imgur.com/ZAEd4Gy.png
[12:42] <xubuntu76w> hi
[12:42] <xubuntu76w> can someone give me quick help with 2ping command
[12:42] <xubuntu76w> i want to test packet loss
[12:45] <xubuntu006> hi guys
[12:45] <xubuntu76w> hello
[12:45] <xubuntu006> it's the first time in this world of linux
[12:46] <xubuntu76w> beware of the man pages
[12:46] <xubuntu76w> :p
[12:47] <xubuntu006> i want learn all about of that system operation....can help me!? :)
[12:47] <xubuntu76w> im semi novice in linux, i asked  a question, hoping for someone to answer
[12:47] <xubuntu76w> what kind of help?
[12:48] <xubuntu006> i want learn to crack wifi
[12:48] <xubuntu006> :)
[12:48] <xubuntu006> but of tutorial
[12:48] <Pici> xubuntu76w: I've never used the tool, I suggest to read the manpage.
[12:48] <xubuntu006> in youtube
[12:48] <xubuntu76w> Pici: http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/vivid/man1/2ping.1p.html  i am unable atm to make coherent command out of it
[12:50] <xubuntu76w> can you write something to test packet loss? i tried 2ping test.2ping.net but it just continuosly tests
[12:51] <xubuntu76w> xubuntu006:  there are some linux distros focused on wifi, but i think you should google them yourself
[12:51] <xubuntu006> ok now i use xubuntu
[12:51] <xubuntu76w> xubuntu is general use distro :)
[12:51] <xubuntu006> but i have ubuntu inside onether pc
[12:52] <xubuntu006> anther
[12:52] <xubuntu76w> kinda. but you can intall anything in any distro, just that for wifi there are some specialized  distros
[12:52] <flocculant> xubuntu006: why should anyone help you crack some wifi somewhere ?
[12:52] <xubuntu006> another
[12:53]  * xubuntu76w slaps flocculant
[12:53] <xubuntu76w> help 2ping
[12:53] <Pici> xubuntu76w: what are you trying to acheive with 2ping?
[12:53] <xubuntu76w> i want to see do i have spikes of packet loss
[12:53] <xubuntu006> because i want learn, i don't want make a disaster
[12:53] <xubuntu006> ahaha
[12:53] <xubuntu76w> xubuntu006: http://www.backtrack-linux.org/ maybe this?
[12:53] <Pici> xubuntu76w: personally I prefer using mtr for this.
[12:54] <xubuntu006> you have any idea of linux mint!?
[12:54] <xubuntu76w> Pici: im open for suggestion, im using xubuntu lately, if i were on windows i would use dos testing there
[12:54] <xubuntu006> i see it's the last version but i don't know if are good for proggramation and learn with the terminal
[12:55] <Pici> !cracking
[12:56] <xubuntu006> sorry!!! guys :(
[12:59] <xubuntu76w> Pici: he can discuss security of wireless networks :p
[13:02] <xubuntu006> have you any idea where i can find any guide of language of terminal!?
[13:04] <xubuntu76w> xubuntu006: http://linux.die.net/man/1/bash
[13:04] <Pici> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UsingTheTerminal has a bunch of resources
[13:05] <xubuntu006> guys thanks....
[13:05] <xubuntu006> you are the best!!! :)
[13:07] <xubuntu76w> np xubuntu006
[13:08]  * xubuntu76w slaps Pici with wet sudo
[13:08] <xubuntu76w> can you read those reports
[13:08] <xubuntu76w> mtr reports
[13:09] <Pici> xubuntu76w: press d while its running and you can see a histogram of sorts of where in the trace you are losing packets.
[13:09] <xubuntu76w> Pici: report says 100% on some, is that normal?
[13:10] <Pici> xubuntu76w: sure. Some hosts block icmp pings
[13:11] <xubuntu76w> testing ea.com
[13:11] <xubuntu76w> im from europe
[13:11] <xubuntu76w> report said 10% loss on 16 hop
[13:12] <xubuntu76w> now on active testing its around 3% on same spot
[13:15] <xubuntu006> any guys of italy!?
[13:15] <Pici> !it
[13:16] <xubuntu76w> ok Pico tnx for asssting
[13:16] <xubuntu76w> need to go, byee
[13:24] <xubuntu006> thanks guy see you soon
[17:21] <schockley> xubuntu 14.04 my KDE app menus are showing up in the task bar instead of as part of the windowed application. How do I change this?
[18:30] <crucify> wireless mouse stops working when I restart the system from the terminal
[18:30] <crucify> someone with this problem
[19:17] <kataphero> Hello guys, needing some help. I'm new to Linux. Just clean installed Xubuntu and noticed I don't have a System Settings  option. The gear icon doesn't show up in the panel.
[19:20] <kataphero> Anyone could shed a light?
[21:22] <JeZxLee> no AMD proprietary display driver in 16.04 ?
[21:22] <mrkramps> nope
[21:22] <mrkramps> currently incompatible with recent versions of XServer
[21:23] <JeZxLee> guess I am stuck with Windows
[21:23] <mrkramps> but AMDs new amdgpu driver will ship with 16.04
[22:14] <Halamix2> hello again
[22:16] <Halamix2> So I tried to update Nvidia drivers (364)...  http://pastebin.com/4VyanBfn
[22:18] <Halamix2> And I don't know what I can do
[22:29] <mrkramps> Halamix2, hybrid graphics?
[22:33] <Halamix2> yup, integrated Intel+nvidia 290M
[22:34] <mrkramps> Halamix2, nvidia-prime installed?
[22:34] <Halamix2> yes
[22:37] <WangDang_> according to this post -> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/33630713/cannot-install-guest-additions-on-kali-2-0 there was a change in some kernel data structure that is affecting certain compile operations.  I need to back down to a pre 3.19 kernel.  The only option I see in 15.10 is linux-image-3.4.0-4-goldfish:i386.  what does the goldfish mean?  Can I just downgrade from linux-image-4.2.0-16-generic like that and everything will be fine?
[22:37] <mrkramps> nope
[22:39] <WangDang_> Is there an option to get a precompiled kernel pre 3.19, then?


[10:07] <adeuring> henninge: could you please review this branch: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~adeuring/launchpad/hwdb-class-udev-device-8/+merge/13554 ?
[10:22] <adeuring> intellectronica: ^^^?
[10:28] <intellectronica> adeuring: yes, looking at it now
[10:28] <adeuring> intellectronica: thanks!
[10:33] <henninge> I am here now ...
[10:33] <henninge> HI intellectronica! ;)
[10:33] <intellectronica> hi henninge, happy new week!
[11:06] <intellectronica> adeuring: wouldn't it be better to use path expressions to find the nodes you want? less likely to make this sort of mistake
[11:07] <adeuring> intellectronica: I'm doing this now, I believe. Or do I miss something?
[11:08] <intellectronica> adeuring: i'm looking at parent.parent.parent.parent and thinking out loud how we can avoid it
[11:09] <adeuring> intellectronica: that's hard... We simply need the grandparent of a device, in UdevDevice.scsi_controller
[11:09] <intellectronica> adeuring: the code in general looks fine, but i find it hard to follow, so i'm wondering if there's anything that can be done to improve it
[11:09] <intellectronica> yes
[11:10] <adeuring> intellectronica: yes, I know that it is not that simple. That's the reason for the sometimes long-winded comments ;)
[11:33] <intellectronica> adeuring: r=me. i find the code quite hard to wrap my head around, but i guess that's mostly just because it's a complex document that's being parsed. i couldn't think of any way to improve on that with small changes. and yes, the commentary does help a lot
[11:34] <intellectronica> henninge: would you like me to review your branch?
[11:34] <adeuring> intellectronica: thanks!
[11:36] <jtv> henninge: your fix looks good.  The comment for the test is lacking the word "entry" after "an," and the test method is confusingly named; I'd suggest test_approve_only_if_needs_review.  Ceterum censeo r=me.
[11:38] <henninge> intellectronica: thanks but I was impatient and asked jtv. He is familiar with the problem, anyway.
[11:38] <jtv> henninge: also, w.r.t. your test plan, not that it matters much but I don't think the date shown in the UI will be updated.  AFAIK we have a bug open for that.
[11:38] <intellectronica> cool bananas
[11:42] <henninge> jtv: thank you
[11:46] <jml> al-maisan, I'll look at that branch now.
[11:58] <al-maisan> jml: thanks
[11:59] <henninge> jtv: http://paste.ubuntu.com/296752/
[12:00] <jtv> henninge: fine
[12:31] <adeuring> intellectronica, henninge: fancy to reveiw a sequel of my previous branch: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~adeuring/launchpad/hwdb-class-udev-device-9/+merge/13562 (~650 lines, but ca 40%...50% is the definition of test data)
[12:32] <intellectronica> adeuring: i'm reviewing a branch of edwin's i picked off the reviews queue, but can pick your branch when i finish, it won't be long
[12:32] <adeuring> intellectronica: thanks!
[12:47] <intellectronica> maaan, those hwdb branches are starting to feel like soyuz to me. i have to work so much out just in order to be able to understand what they do
[12:49] <bigjools> lies
[13:33] <intellectronica> adeuring: r=me
[13:42] <adeuring> intellectronica: thanks!
[15:06] <adeuring> intellectronica: fancy another sequel of this HWDB submissions stuff (a bit shorter this time: 177 lines diff)?
[15:06] <intellectronica> adeuring: sure
[15:06] <adeuring> intellectronica: thanks!
[15:06] <adeuring> https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~adeuring/launchpad/hwdb-class-udev-device-10/+merge/13567
[16:28] <allenap> abentley: Can you review a short lpbuildbot branch for me please? There is some bzrlib stuff in there so I'd like you to check my assumptions. https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~allenap/lpbuildbot/explicitly-disconnect-transports-bug-419421/+merge/13575
[16:28] <abentley> allenap: sure.
[16:28] <allenap> Thanks.
[16:36] <abentley> allenap: The transports variable isn't doing a lot for you.  I'm not sure what disconnecting two transports with the same underlying connection does.
[16:37] <allenap> abentley: I don't follow.
[16:38] <abentley> allenap: transports is an optional parameter to Branch.open_containing.
[16:38] <abentley> allenap: It's only valuable if you pass it into another call later.
[16:39] <allenap> abentley: I was relying on the fact that reusable transports get appended to it, so I could disconnect them.
[16:40] <abentley> allenap: I don't think we provide a strong guarantee that passing it into open_containing will append all transports that were opened in the process of opening the branch.
[16:40] <allenap> abentley: Ah, okay.
[16:41] <abentley> allenap: Are you sure you need to disconnect all the transports?
[16:43] <allenap> abentley: Well, no, but from the bug report it seems that ssh processes are not getting reaped all the time. I'm assuming that they are related to bzr operations. If that's a correct assumption, then I want to try explicitly reaping them.
[16:43] <allenap> abentley: It may be that the assumption is wrong, but I want to try this because I don't have any better ideas :)
[16:44] <abentley> allenap: Right, but are you sure you need to disconnection all the *transports*?  Because I would have thought you only needed to disconnect all the *connections*.
[16:45] <allenap> abentley: I didn't understand the distinction before. All the connections I would say. Calling transport.disconnect() closes the connection, so I'm relying on that.
[16:47] <abentley> allenap: Right, so I think you can just do branch.bzrdir.root_transport.disconnect()
[16:49] <allenap> abentley: Okay. I assume that will basically disconnect everything that bzrlib has done from everything. I think that'll be fine for our buildbot configuration as it stands, but it's bad behaviour if we ever add more pollers to the configuration.
[16:50] <abentley> allenap: No, that will just disconnect the ssh connection related to the branch you just opened.
[16:52] <allenap> abentley: Ah, I read that wrong! I read bzrlib.bzrdir.root_transport.disconnect, and I assumed root_transport was a module global.
[16:52] <allenap> abentley: Okay, thanks for that, I'll use that approach.
[16:52] <abentley> allenap: Cool.
[16:54] <abentley> allenap: Also, you should pull the "branch =" statement out of the try block.  If that were to fail, you wouldn't want to go to the finally block.
[16:54] <allenap> abentley: Yeah, agreed.
[16:56] <abentley> I can't say whether this approach will actually solve the zombie problem, but it looks fine otherwise.
[16:56] <jml> al-maisan, hello
[16:56] <al-maisan> hello jml , just read your email
[16:57] <al-maisan> thanks very much for clarifying things
[16:57] <jml> al-maisan, my pleasure.
[16:57] <al-maisan> so, the branch-sourcepackage relation is 1-on-1 .. but
[16:58] <jml> al-maisan, there are two kinds of relationships between a branch and a sourcepackage
[16:58] <al-maisan> aha
[16:58] <sinzui> intellectronica: henninge, abentley: Can one of you take https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~sinzui/launchpad/package-link-validation-1/+merge/13578 ?
[16:58] <jml> al-maisan, a branch can *belong* to a source package
[16:58] <jml> al-maisan, (or a product, or be a junk branch)
[16:58] <al-maisan> yes...
[16:58] <jml> al-maisan, alternatively, a branch can be the *official branch* for a (sourcepackage, pocket)
[16:59] <intellectronica> sinzui: sure, i'll review it
[16:59] <jml> the two concepts are independent.
[16:59] <jml> al-maisan, furthermore, a branch can be the official branch for more than one (sourcepackage, pocket) ISTR
[16:59] <al-maisan> jml: can be the can be the *official branch* for a number of (sourcepackage, pocket) items?
[17:00] <al-maisan> ah
[17:00] <abentley> allenap: AIUI, this method is called in a thread from a long-running process.  Correct?
[17:00] <allenap> abentley: Yes.
[17:01] <abentley> allenap: Have you considered passing a transports parameter into it from the long-running process?
[17:01] <jml> al-maisan, this is deliberate. I'm beginning to think it's also misguided.
[17:01] <al-maisan> jml: is it correct to assume that in such a (sourcepackage, pocket) collection a sourcepackage.distroseries only appears once?
[17:01] <intellectronica> sinzui: i don't understand the way you structured that conditional around line 32 of the diff
[17:01] <abentley> allenap: That would presumably limit you to one SSH connection per long-running process.
[17:01] <jml> al-maisan, I'm afraid not.
[17:01] <intellectronica> sinzui: why do you need an extra if?
[17:02]  * sinzui should have annotated the cover letter
[17:02] <al-maisan> jml: how's that beneficial?
[17:02] <allenap> abentley: That's certainly a possibility, quite an easy one to do. The transports will go for no more than 10 minutes without being used. Is that likely to cause problems? What happens if bazaar.launchpad.net goes down? Will bzrlib cope?
[17:02] <jml> al-maisan, that's all you have to work with in terms of assumptions: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/296938/
[17:02] <al-maisan> ah
[17:02] <jml> al-maisan, I'm not sure it _is_ beneficial :)
[17:02] <al-maisan> aha :)
[17:03] <jml> al-maisan, but the code you write here has to work with our current model
[17:03] <al-maisan> jml: that's understod.
[17:03] <abentley> allenap: I'm not sure how bzrlib reacts if the host goes away while a connection is open.
[17:03] <sinzui> intellectronica: There are two kinds of errors the user can get when setting a sourcepackage for a series: the first rule that exists is that you cannot reuse the the exact combination of distroseries, sourcepackage, and productseries.
[17:04] <al-maisan> jml: hmm .. this looks a bit funny:  UNIQUE, btree (distroseries, sourcepackagename, pocket)
[17:04] <abentley> allenap: I'm more worried about the fact that transports weren't designed to be thread-safe, so you'd have to take care of that yourself.
[17:04] <sinzui> intellectronica: The error gets its own message because the problem is locale to the series being edits
[17:04] <jml> al-maisan, that means...
[17:05] <intellectronica> sinzui: but why `message="..."\n if message:...`? you don't need that if
[17:05] <jml> al-maisan, I'm on a call I want to keep short. you'll have my full attention in a minute
[17:05] <al-maisan> jml: sure
[17:05] <sinzui> intellectronica:sorry. I have the plague and I and thinking is a challenge
[17:06] <allenap> abentley: I think gary_poster must have had that problem because the custom BzrPoller we use overrides buildbot's to avoid concurrency already.
[17:06] <al-maisan> jml: well, if I am to check whether we can upload to a pocket and a number of (distroseries, pocket) combination can appear in that storm result set, the question is which one should I check..
[17:06] <sinzui> intellectronica: That is crack I should have removed when I refacteded the branch between commits
[17:06] <allenap> abentley: Meaning: gary_poster wrote the custom poller afaict.
[17:06] <gary_poster> riht
[17:06] <gary_poster> right
[17:06] <al-maisan> maybe all of them and be satisfied when I hit the first one that "passes"
[17:07] <intellectronica> sinzui: also, when you have a multiline conditional (like around line 38), it's nice if you can add a comment immediately before the then clause, so that it's clearer where the condition stops and the statements to execute begin
[17:08] <intellectronica> sinzui: ditto near line 46
[17:08] <al-maisan> jml: I guess I am a bit confused since there can be one "current" source package release in a distro series and I assumed that an official branch would be linked to that ..
[17:08] <sinzui> intellectronica: okay
[17:08] <sinzui> I can add comments
[17:08] <intellectronica> cool
[17:09] <abentley> allenap: I don't think Launchpad PQM Bot should be subscribed to code review email.
[17:09] <allenap> abentley: No, that seems odd.
[17:09] <intellectronica> sinzui: it's a bit strange when you set next_url to the value of cancel_url, becuase even though it's the correct url, it implies that you're canceling
[17:09] <sinzui> indeed
[17:10] <intellectronica> sinzui: i would add another property, even though it's inefficient, just for readability
[17:10] <allenap> abentley: I don't have the power to fix that. You?
[17:10] <sinzui> I can define next_url and and set cancel_url from it.
[17:11] <abentley> allenap: Yes.  I've left it subscribed, so it can see the branch, but with no email options set.
[17:11] <intellectronica> sinzui: yeah, i think that's the best solution
[17:12] <allenap> abentley: The code that calls getRawChanges catches all exceptions, so wouldn't crash if bzrlib went awry due to a failed transport being passed in. But I wonder if (a) keeping those transports around would cause problems on all subsequent runs (so requiring a restart of buildbot), or (b) if we emptied the list of transports after an exception would we leak processes again?
[17:13] <intellectronica> sinzui: i'm not sure about the improved description for the packaging field. it's a lot nicer, but i wonder if users will find the concrete examples helpful. i, for example, have no idea what cadaver and libneon do, so mentioning them only serves as a distraction
[17:13] <intellectronica> i know what apache is, though sometimes i wish i didn't
[17:13] <sinzui> intellectronica: yes. I struggled with that example
[17:14] <sinzui> intellectronica: INCLUDE is a rare condition. upstreams rarely need to know about that
[17:14] <abentley> I don't think a is true.  Transports are meant to be reused.  b might be true.
[17:14] <intellectronica> sinzui: i would cut right after the question. i think it's formed clearly enough that users will be able to rely on it alone to understand
[17:15] <jml> al-maisan, back. really sorry about that. team standup.
[17:15] <sinzui> oh, good. I was tempted to do that, but thought saying more would help
[17:15] <jml> al-maisan,  UNIQUE, btree (distroseries, sourcepackagename, pocket) just means that each SuiteSourcePackage has exactly one official branch.
[17:16] <jml> al-maisan, the goal is for there to be official branches for every SuiteSourcePackage
[17:16] <intellectronica> sinzui: i find the way you format the call to dict on line 222 a bit strange. i think that if you use the function call, you should avoid the trailing coma
[17:17] <jml> al-maisan, as for which one to check
[17:17] <jml> al-maisan, I think you should check all of them and the real question becomes whether the results are ANDed or ORed.
[17:18] <sinzui> intellectronica: I agree with you. I should not have use a trailing comma.
[17:20] <jml> al-maisan, Really, you're right and the model is wonky here. I'd recommend ANDing them (since it's more restrictive) and we can chase up a more restrictive model w/ james_w and cjwatson.
[17:21] <al-maisan> jml: I am trying to think whether OR'ing them would be OK as well
[17:22] <intellectronica> sinzui: the rest looks great, so r=me with these changes
[17:23] <sinzui> intellectronica: Here is the incremental: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/296953/
[17:23] <jml> al-maisan, if a distroseries is closed for a pocket then it should be impossible to upload to the associated branch, I think.
[17:24] <al-maisan> jml: I agree, however, there's that one-branch-to-many (sourcepackage, pocket) relationship
[17:24] <intellectronica> sinzui: perfect
[17:25] <jml> al-maisan, fwiw, with the real data, the relationship is in fact 1:1
[17:25] <al-maisan> so, if any of the (sourcepackage, pocket) combinations become non-valid i.e. karmic/release after Nov. 1st
[17:25] <al-maisan> jml: that's good news
[17:25] <al-maisan> in which case we should reconsider the following constraint:
[17:25] <al-maisan>     "seriessourcepackagebranch__ds__spn__pocket__key" UNIQUE, btree (distroseries, sourcepackagename, pocket)
[17:26] <jml> umm, don't you mean, "add a uniqueness constraint to branch"?
[17:27] <al-maisan> I thought a seriessourcepackagebranch contraint like (distroseries, sourcepackagename) probably makes more sense
[17:28] <jml> no, because that would make it impossible to have an lp:ubuntu/karmic-security/openssh branch and an lp:ubuntu/karmic/openssh branch
[17:28] <al-maisan> but then it depends how seriessourcepackagebranch will be used
[17:28] <al-maisan> jml: maybe we could have brief voice call
[17:28] <jml> al-maisan, sure.
[17:28]  * al-maisan fires up skype
[17:31] <jml> al-maisan, ?
[17:31] <al-maisan> jml: just a second
[17:32] <intellectronica> bac: need a reivew?
[17:33] <bac> intellectronica: yes, please.  i was waiting for the MP to show up before asking but got distracted.
[17:33] <bac> intellectronica: it'll be your easiest of the day
[17:33] <intellectronica> bac: so that's just an old test reinstated, right?
[17:33] <bac> indeedy
[17:33] <bac> intellectronica: and a smidgen of drive-by
[17:35] <intellectronica> bac: looks fine, r=me. thanks for remembering to reactivate that test
[17:35] <bac> intellectronica: thanks
[18:06] <leonardr> intellectronica, henninge, or abentley: a very simple branch for one of you
[18:07] <leonardr> https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~leonardr/lazr.authentication/correct-scheme/+merge/13586
[18:07] <henninge> leonardr: I am on it
[18:14] <henninge> leonardr: looks nice!
[18:15] <henninge> leonardr: shouldn't the base class do some check if self.AUITH_SCHEME actually exists or provide a default value?
[18:15] <henninge> Or am I being over-paranoid?
[18:15] <leonardr> hmm
[18:15] <leonardr> there's no sensible default value
[18:16] <leonardr> if you forget it with a new authentication class, the crash will happen at the appropriate time (when you try to use the authentication for the first time, before you commit anything)
[18:16] <leonardr> so i think it's ok
[18:17] <henninge> leonardr: ok, but please add a comment to the base class saying that derived classes need to implement this.
[18:17] <henninge> to the doc string
[18:20] <henninge> leonardr: r=me
[18:31] <rockstar> henninge, can I hop into your queue?
[18:32] <henninge> rockstar: no queue, just forgot to update the topic
[18:32] <henninge> ;)
[18:32] <rockstar> henninge, okay, I'll send it directly to you then.
[18:32] <henninge> rockstar: show me the mp
[18:32] <rockstar> henninge, sending now.
[18:34] <leonardr> henninge, abentley: even more trivial than my last branch: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~leonardr/lazr.restful/0.9.13/+merge/13588
[18:38] <henninge> leonardr: r=me
[18:41] <rockstar> henninge, https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~rockstar/launchpad/code-import-cvs-oops/+merge/13589
[18:48] <rockstar> henninge, how's it going?
[18:48] <henninge> rockstar: done, r=me
[18:49] <rockstar> henninge, thanks!
[18:58] <barry> henninge, abentley-lunch ping.  i have a very simple branch
[18:58] <henninge> barry: bring it on
[18:58] <barry> henninge: thanks! mp'ing it now
[19:18] <barry> henninge: it's almost ridiculously trivial :)  https://code.launchpad.net/~barry/launchpad/mm2112/+merge/13591
[19:20] <henninge> barry: the trivality is soothing at this hour ... ;-)
[19:20] <henninge> barry: r=me
[19:21] <barry> henninge: thanks! :)
[20:53] <EdwinGrubbs> sinzui: can you do a UI review of this MP (screenshot links in the last comment). https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~edwin-grubbs/launchpad/bug-426899-ppa-links/+merge/13505
[20:56] <sinzui> EdwinGrubbs: I really think that the link to "PPA packages related to Curtis Hovey" should be (i) Related PPA packages
[20:56] <EdwinGrubbs> sinzui: sounds good
[20:57] <sinzui> hmm. My page is wrong too
[20:57] <sinzui> Has my hate for these pages evolved to apathy. I am not even surprised that they are wrong
[20:57] <sinzui> Why would motus trust these page?
[21:04] <EdwinGrubbs> sinzui: which piece of information is wrong on your page?
[21:05] <sinzui> EdwinGrubbs: That package in my ppa is superseded. I expected to see the one that users can download.
[21:06] <sinzui> EdwinGrubbs: have you looked at my related projects. I weep every time I see that page
[21:06]  * sinzui thinks team participation has no place in related projects or packages
[21:08] <EdwinGrubbs> sinzui: I don't think that is as big of a problem for people that are not in the Registry Administrators team.
[21:09] <EdwinGrubbs> rockstar: can you do a secondary ui review of https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~edwin-grubbs/launchpad/bug-426899-ppa-links/+merge/13505
[21:10] <sinzui> I found a bug relating to it. jml had agreed with the issue. And scottk was concerned too. All 3 of us are concerned. rarely can one issue unite three disparate personalities like this one
[21:11] <rockstar> EdwinGrubbs, sure.
[21:13] <rockstar> EdwinGrubbs, looks good.
[23:41] <jml> sinzui, huh what?


[10:20] <rnix> hi, is it possible to create a backup image of currently installed device?
[10:21] <rnix> device = N7
[10:23] <rnix> which the again is installable via fastboot flash userdata ...
[10:24] <rnix> /s/the/then
[13:26] <et0ne> hi
[13:29] <et0ne> got a litle problem over here... I installed manually the latest bootimage and and image of raring from here http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-preinstalled/current/ onto my nexus 7 device
[13:31] <et0ne> everything works out good... but i can't boot into fastboot-mode anymore... it seems that the device powers down while holding the powerbutton (including the other two keys which are needed) to boot into it.
[13:32] <tassadar_> fastboot mode is power button + volume down, not both of them
[13:32] <et0ne> adb itselfe does not find any devices anymore...
[13:32] <et0ne> thx i will try it
[13:33] <Guest49891> building raring kernel for nexus7 as per instructions at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Nexus7/Kernel, where does the bootimg live post compile?
[13:33] <tassadar_> if you got into APX mode by chance (pwer button + volume up, screen does not power up, it doesn't do anything visible), then you have to hold power button for ~10s until it restarts
[13:34] <tassadar_> Guest49891: I think it makes only .deb package, the boot image itself is generated on the device when you install it
[13:35] <tassadar_> but you can boot zImage only and make boot image yourself
[13:35] <et0ne> thx tassadar_ just those two buttons...
[13:36] <et0ne> has anyone tryed a dualboot on the nexus 7?
[13:37] <tassadar_> yeah ^^
[13:39] <et0ne> then maybe i'll have a lot of questions, soon ;)
[13:40] <Guest49891> tassader_: I see .udeb and .deb files, how to munge them onto the device
[13:41] <tassadar_> well, it's normal .deb package, so just run Ubuntu on n7, get the package there (via scp or something) and install it in terminal with "dpkg -i package.deb"
[13:42] <Guest49891> ah ok, that makes sense, install default image first using the installer, then just install on the device... sorry why wasn't that obvious to me
[13:42] <tassadar_> btw, why are you building your own kernel?
[13:47] <Guest49891> to turn on some additional profiling flags
[13:56] <et0ne> tassadar_: at first i will try get a workflow into playing wit the nexus7 but yes my intention is to build my own system with all the tool i need
[13:56] <et0ne> tools
[13:57] <et0ne> this ubuntu-image i used first is not realy usable... so i will try ubuntu-touch... and see it works for me
[14:02] <et0ne> tassadar_: do you have a working config as reference?
[14:03] <tassadar_> ?
[14:03] <et0ne> tassadar_: kernel config
[14:03] <tassadar_> for what?
[14:04] <et0ne> tassadar_: i guess i picked up a question that was asked by you
[14:04] <et0ne> about building your own kernel
[14:05] <tassadar_> I was answering to someone else
[14:06] <et0ne> sorry...
[14:07] <tassadar_> no, it's okay)
[14:07] <tassadar_> I think ubuntu-core kernel has some defconfig for nexus7 in it, if you want to built that
[14:09] <et0ne> i would love to let gentoo run on it, but defconf ist a good thing to start with
[14:12] <m4tt_m4tt> seeing this checksum error on nexus7-installer http://pastebin.com/au6Xfeqy
[14:15] <tassadar_> there's probably something wrong with the installer due to raring/saucy transition, you can try to install it manually
[14:16] <tassadar_> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Nexus7/Installation#Manually_Installing_Ubuntu_13.04_on_Nexus_7
[14:16] <tassadar_> you should probably check md5 of the images, just to be sure they are alright (see MD5SUMS file in the cdimage download folder)
[15:16] <m4tt_m4tt> what is the default user/pass on 13.04 nexus7 image
[15:16] <m4tt_m4tt> ubuntu/ubuntu is login incorrect
[15:18] <tassadar_> ubuntu-core? it is set during first boot
[15:18] <tassadar_> you get the installer dialog and everything, like on PC
[15:19] <m4tt_m4tt> don't have usb otg cable with me
[15:19] <m4tt_m4tt> on screen keyboard not appearing
[15:19] <m4tt_m4tt> have serial debug shell
[15:19] <m4tt_m4tt> but can't login
[15:20] <tassadar_> try to reboot the device
[15:20] <tassadar_> the keyboard is a bit problematic
[15:21] <m4tt_m4tt> I can only hard reboot (holding down power). Restart and Shutdown dialogs don't seem to register restart/shutdown presses
[15:21] <tassadar_> yeah :/
[15:22] <m4tt_m4tt> 2nd reboot let's see if keyboard pops up
[15:23] <tassadar_> There is pretty bad bug in X11, the mouse button (ie. touch) gets stuck after a while: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-nexus7/+bug/1068994
[15:23] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1068994 in OEM Priority Project raring "button1 gets stuck after a while" [Critical,In progress]
[15:27] <m4tt_m4tt> grrr onscreen keyboard dies when system configuration window opens
[16:43] <ppisati> ogra_: dude, do we have a project/tag/whatever for nexus* bugs?
[16:44] <ogra_> nope
[16:44] <ogra_> we used to, but they were tied to the desktop image which is effectively dead now
[16:45] <ppisati> ogra_: :(
[16:45] <ppisati> ogra_: woof
[16:45] <ogra_> meow
[16:45] <ppisati> ogra_: so, what if i want to test/
[16:45] <ppisati> ogra_: or find any bug, where/how do i report it?
[16:46] <ogra_> what kind of bug ?
[16:46] <ogra_> you should file them against the respective package
[16:46] <ppisati> ogra_: uhm
[16:46] <ppisati> ogra_: did you get the camera to work on any img/device?
[16:47] <ogra_> works fine on all but nexus7 afaik
[16:47] <ppisati> ogra_: ok
[16:48]  * ppisati goes to to grab his nexus4
[16:48] <ogra_> use a fresh image, the camera app was broken for a few days
[16:48] <ogra_> i know it works in the more recent ones again
[16:55] <ppisati> ogra_: ah, that would explain
[18:01] <konachoco> hello