[00:00]  * timelyx leaves it alone
[00:00] <jam> this is weird
[00:00] <jam> my machine won't allow any new connections
[00:00] <jam> but preserves the connections it has
[00:00] <lifeless> timelyx: so my default is yes; but if its really a problem - create a patch and send it in for review
[00:00]  * timelyx nods
[00:00] <lifeless> jam: in or out or both
[00:00] <jam> so I can't open a *new* ssh connection, or a mail connection, but I can still work on the connection I have
[00:00] <jam> lifeless: out
[00:00] <jam> not sure about in
[00:00] <lifeless> jam: ssh running, I can connect to you if you like ?
[00:00] <lifeless> jam: tcpdump offer any hints?
[00:01] <lifeless> jam: do you have iptables active?
[00:01] <jam> lifeless: ssh isn't running, I might try that
[00:01] <jam> I don't have iptables active
[00:01] <jam> worse case, I can just restart ...
[00:01] <lifeless> it may be upstream of you
[00:02] <lifeless> -> deep hacking mode, interrupt threshold just tripped
[00:07] <jam> restarting fixed it
[00:28] <lifeless> igc: ping
[00:28] <igc> hi lifeless
[00:29] <lifeless> poolie said you were having trouble reading my stacked loom
[00:30] <igc> lifeless: I think I was going about the merging the wrong way
[00:30] <igc> in particularly, I think I should have been looking at diff -rancestor: instead of a plain diff
[00:31] <lifeless> erm thats wrong
[00:31] <lifeless> you were going to merge bzr.dev into it right ?
[00:31] <igc> when merging bzr.dev, the latter was just too big to show anything as suspect
[00:31] <lifeless> do you know how to merge in a loom?
[00:32] <igc> lifeless: so my conclusion was that I needed to know more about your code before trying to 'just merge'
[00:32] <igc> I read the doc if that's what you mean
[00:32] <lifeless> but you haven't been working with a loom yourself?
[00:32] <igc> not until I branched yours, no
[00:32] <lifeless> ok
[00:33] <lifeless> this is roughly 'updating to upstream'
[00:33] <lifeless> in a clean branch made from mine
[00:33] <lifeless> bzr switch bzr.dev
[00:33] <lifeless> (or down-thread until it errors)
[00:33] <lifeless> then bzr pull $bzr.dev
[00:33] <lifeless> bzr up-thread
[00:33] <igc> did that
[00:33] <lifeless> bzr diff -r thread:
[00:33] <lifeless> (that will show the current patch)
[00:33] <igc> right
[00:34] <lifeless> run the test suite if there seems a chance of bzr.dev breaking what the patch does
[00:34] <igc> I was not adding the -r thread: bit
[00:34] <lifeless> st etc
[00:34] <lifeless> commit -m 'merge bzr.dev'
[00:34] <lifeless> bzr up-thread
[00:34] <lifeless> rinse, repeat
[00:35] <lifeless> when you reach the top, after committing do 'bzr record' push it somewhere and I'll pull it
[00:35] <igc> lifeless: cool. I'll do that now.
[00:35] <lifeless> k, back to deep hack for me
[00:35] <igc> I've been feeling pretty lousy lately but my brain ought t be good for a few hours
[00:36] <lifeless> I know the feeling
[00:36] <igc> lifeless: I suspect you feel worse actually
[00:37] <igc> mine is more a long term thing - perhaps something nasty I picked up on my last holiday
[00:37] <igc> off to the specialist tomorrow anyhow so at least I'd know what's going on then
[00:37] <igc> s/I'd/I'll/
[00:37] <lifeless> gl
[00:49] <jml> hmm. bzr just segfaulted on me.
[00:49] <bob2> 100 points
[00:49] <jml> well, my bzr plugin just segfaulted on me :)
[00:49] <jml> I guess I should be clear about that.
[01:13] <Gilgad13> hey has anyone one found a good way to reconcile eclipse's workspace directory structure with good repository layout?
[01:13] <Gilgad13> right now i'm just making links in my projects
[01:13] <Gilgad13> but thats not great because the project itself isn't source controlled
[01:14] <beuno> Verterok, ^
[01:14] <beuno> (and hi)
[01:14] <Gilgad13> and putting it in the same folder could work, but i was wondering if there is something better
[01:16] <beuno> Gilgad13, Verterok is the bzr-eclipse developer, so if you give him a minute or two to settle in, I'm sure he'll be able to give you a good answer
[01:16] <Gilgad13> nice
[01:16] <Verterok> Gilgad13: Hi... I don't know if I understand the idea :P
[01:16] <Verterok> you can have one workspace per repository :)
[01:16] <Gilgad13> yea
[01:16] <Gilgad13> thought of that
[01:16] <Gilgad13> i guess its the best way to go
[01:17] <Verterok> but it's a mess to keep configurations between workspaces :(
[01:17] <Gilgad13> i'm just used to having more control over where my projects go
[01:17] <Gilgad13> are the links in the eclipse project relative
[01:18] <Verterok> you can have the projects outside the workspace
[01:18] <Gilgad13> nvm, that would still mean many little workspaces running around
[01:18] <Gilgad13> really?, then what is the workspace used for?
[01:18] <Verterok> only to keep the .metadata directory
[01:19] <Verterok> so, you can have one workspace, and all your projects in other directory...like /home/<user>/Projects :D
[01:20] <Gilgad13> how would i create those
[01:20] <Gilgad13> just do the normal creation then move them out of my workspace?
[01:20] <Verterok> Gilgad13: take a look to: File --> Import --> Existing project into workspace
[01:20] <Gilgad13> ahh
[01:20] <Verterok> and if bzr-eclipse don't detect the .bzr..please file a bug :D
[01:21] <Gilgad13> certainly, i actually havn't dl'ed the plugin, how usable is it?
[01:23] <Verterok> Gilgad13: it's quite usable, but a bit slow (it uses bzr executable)...but I'm working on this problem right now :)
[01:23] <Gilgad13> alrighty, i'll take a look at it
[01:23] <Gilgad13> good luck
[01:23] <Verterok> thx!
[01:24] <Verterok> beuno: Hi, (and thanks for the pointer :) )
[01:25] <beuno> Verterok, whatever makes you work more  ;)
[01:26] <Verterok> hehe
[01:30] <lifeless> T-27
[01:31] <poolie> hello all
[01:31] <poolie> lifeless: ?
[01:32] <lifeless> poolie: 27 failing fixtures
[01:32] <poolie> oh great
[01:34] <Verterok> hi poolie
[01:46] <poolie> lifeless: jam was also wanting to help with the repository refactoring and stacking branches, could you mail him some pointers on where to get started?
[01:47] <lifeless> sure
[01:47] <lifeless> uhm
[01:47] <lifeless> network network network I would say
[01:51] <poolie> meaning network get_data_stream, or optimizations of what's currently done?
[01:51] <lifeless> the former
[02:01] <beuno> poolie, if you want any help with uploading 1.6 beta to PPA, let me know  :)
[02:01] <poolie> beuno: thanks, should be ok, going to do that soon
[02:03] <beuno> alright, I'm heading home then
[04:00]  * igc lunch
[04:16] <lifeless> T-16 time for lunch
[04:51] <Gilgad13> Verterok: does your bzr-eclipse plugin manage changing the name of the project when you branch?
[04:51] <Gilgad13> because when i try to do it manually, eclipse doesn't let me load more than one project with the same name into the same workspace (which is logical, i guess)
[04:52] <Gilgad13> or do you handle it a different way?
[04:54] <Verterok> Gilgad13: if you branch using the plugin, yes. it aallow to specify the project name
[04:54] <Verterok> Gilgad13: and yes, eclipse don't allow repeat project names or change them during import
[04:54] <Gilgad13> nice
[04:55] <Gilgad13> that seems to be the killer feature, because that is too much effort to do manually
[04:56] <Verterok> Gilgad13: I recently fixed a Bug #180207 related to the branch wizard, I'll try to upload a new build as soon time permits
[04:56] <Gilgad13> yea, looking at that right now, actually
[04:57] <Verterok> :)
[05:10] <lifeless> ok, in theory thats 0 failures
[05:10] <lifeless> running the full suite
[05:21] <Gilgad13> Verterok: thanks for the help
[05:22] <Verterok> Gilgad13: np, y're welcome
[05:22] <Verterok> if you have any other question, don't doubt to ping me
[05:42]  * igc pick up kids
[05:44] <lifeless> ok, zero failures
[05:44] <lifeless> (I'm not going to claim zero defects)
[06:08] <jml> lifeless: woot.
[06:08] <jml> lifeless: Does this make it a 1.6 candidate?
[06:18] <lifeless> no, now for weave_store nukage
[06:33] <igc> lifeless: http://people.ubuntu.com/~ianc/bzr/shallow-branch/ is my progress so far
[06:33] <igc> it's done bar 3 tests that I need to fix up
[06:34] <igc> tracking them down now ...
[07:10] <pygi> hey folks
[07:23] <lifeless> igc: what thread do they start failing in ?
[07:23] <igc> lifeless: they vary ...
[07:24] <igc> one was fixed by removing deprecations from bzr-loom
[07:24] <igc> i.e. merging abentley's branch
[07:24] <igc> one is related to tests/http_server unicode path handling
[07:24] <igc> I think I've just fixed it
[07:24] <igc> the last is test_interprepository - about to do it next
[07:24] <Slant> Is there a way to have bzr call a script after a commit?
[07:27] <bob2> Slant: bzr help hooks
[07:28] <Slant> bob2: Thanks.
[07:33] <Slant> bob2: Can a hook be embedded in a repo?
[07:34] <bob2> probably, but hooks are run by clients
[07:35] <igc> lifeless: shall I upgrade the format # from 1.3 to 1.6 where applicable while I'm in there?
[07:37] <bob2> how's the new rich-as-a-default-format thing looking for 2.6?
[07:37] <bob2> oops, the beta's out
[07:37] <Slant> bob2: Thanks!
[08:14] <poolie> night
[08:28] <igc> current state of merging bzr.dev into the stacked branches loom is now pushed to http://people.ubuntu.com/~ianc/bzr/shallow-branch/
[08:28]  * igc dinner
[09:10] <jelmer> LarstiQ: I just found what is causing the slowness in the bzr-svn testsuite
[09:11] <jelmer> LarstiQ: libsvn_client (the glue between working copy and remote repository access) waits for the next second every time you do a disk operation!
[09:12] <Jc2k> jelmer: that sounds quite yucky!
[09:14] <AfC> Yikes!
[09:15] <AfC> I think that Jelmer should win an award for being the guy who puts up with coding against Subversion so the rest of us can deal with foreign VCSes
[09:16] <Jc2k> he needs our beer, for sure
[09:33] <jelmer> AfC, :-)
[09:33] <jelmer> Jc2k: yeah, it's pretty nasty - but shouldn't be too hard to work around
[09:55]  * mwhudson thinks the jelmer beer fund should be considerable by now
[10:30] <lifeless> jelmer: ah yes, the old '1 sec wait to 'fix' race conditions' bug
[10:30] <liw> . o O (First Internet Bank of Beer)
[10:41] <munckfish> Hi is it possible to specify an alternative SSH key for use with bzr+ssh protocol? I have two keys for separate uses. I'm not seeing an obvious way either in 'push' or in the available config options.
[10:45] <Pieter> stupid first three letter match
[10:45] <Pieter> heh
[10:45] <Pieter> nevermind that
[10:48] <james_w> munckfish: hi, you want a different key to be used for sftp:// and bzr+ssh:// to the same host, or something else?
[10:49] <munckfish> james_w: Hi. I have 2 keys one for work in id_rsa and one for ubuntu which is stored in id_rsa.1
[10:49] <james_w> munckfish: so the differentiation would be by host?
[10:49] <munckfish> I need to select use of the second key
[10:49] <munckfish> Um yes I guess so
[10:49] <james_w> I do this with ~/.ssh/config
[10:49] <munckfish> aha I see
[10:50] <james_w> with stanzas like:
[10:50] <james_w> Host bazaar.launchpad.net
[10:50] <james_w> Hostname bazaar.launchpad.net
[10:50] <james_w> User james-w
[10:50] <james_w> IdentityFile2 ~/.ssh/id_rsa.1
[10:50] <munckfish> james_w: thx I'll try that.
[11:41] <jelmer> lifeless, yep, that's the one
[11:41] <jelmer> lifeless, I'm working around it by simply not using libsvn_client but using the bzr infrastructure to let the diff reporter and commit builder talk to each other
[11:42] <lifeless> jelmer: :P
[11:42] <lifeless> jelmer: that *is* why we wrote bzr's code the way we did
[11:44] <jelmer> lifeless: yeah, that's a big help
[11:45] <jelmer> strangely enough there's no way to turn that behaviour in the subversion client libraries off
[11:45] <jelmer> no wonder their test suite takes so long to run :-P
[13:32] <awilkins> jelmer: I think the "wait next second" thing had a purpose, possibly to do with timestamps, but I can't recall exactly what it is
[13:32] <jelmer> awilkins: yes, it does indeed have a purpose - see lifeless' comment
[13:35] <awilkins> I have half a mind to test bzr using this ext2 driver for windows to see if things get faster
[13:35] <awilkins> Problem is I don't have any internal ext2 partitions so it's not a fair test I suppose
[13:36]  * awilkins waits 'til he gets home
[13:41] <lifeless> awilkins: this is the 1 sec thing: diff is expensive, so vcs's often avoid diffing by using a timestamp comparison on the file - if it hasn't been edited since the vcs last had a empty diff, don't bother diffing
[13:41] <lifeless> awilkins: now filesystems have a granularity (e.g. 2 seconds for FAT)
[13:41] <awilkins> Makes sense
[13:42] <lifeless> awilkins: and the record of when a diff was done has some granularity (e.g. 1 second)
[13:42] <lifeless> so what cvs did at one point (its broken these days) and svn does to, is to wait until the system time is greater than the time it wrote into any of its records as the last diff done
[13:42] <awilkins> Is hashing faster than diff?
[13:43] <lifeless> hashing is faster yes, but still not free
[13:43] <awilkins> Indeed
[13:43] <lifeless> now in principle that delay can be 0 if the last file was modified before the current time when the op finishes
[13:43]  * awilkins potters off to install some software (Including bzr! Hahaha!)
[13:43] <lifeless> but there is a better way
[13:44] <lifeless> which is to not write the time *at all* to disk for a file created during the file systems granularity, and then you can return immediately safely
[13:44] <lifeless> gnight
[13:44] <awilkins> By that, you mean writing the time to the cache?
[13:44] <lifeless> yah
[13:45] <lifeless> just say 'we don't know if the file is modified or not'
[13:45] <lifeless> on small trees this means 'checkout' ends up with no files in the cache after checkout
[13:45] <lifeless> on big trees the first files written will be in the cache
[13:45] <lifeless> so its self limiting
[13:45] <lifeless> and allows extremely fast repeated operations whenever diff can be done in less time than waiting one secod
[13:46] <lifeless> (and as the limit is the time to write files, this is almost guaranteed to be the case)
[13:46] <lifeless> really gone - ciao
[14:08] <mpt> Is "bzr check" supposed to be usable on a remote branch that doesn't belong to you?
[14:13] <jelmer> mpt: I think so
[14:13] <jelmer> at the very least it should give a sensible error if it can't - what are you seeing?
[14:18] <mpt> reported as bug 237067
[14:22] <james_w> it might be a side effect of "Server does not understand Bazaar network protocol 3, reconnecting. (Upgrade the server to avoid this.)"
[14:23] <james_w> or it may just be a missing lock call of course.
[14:24] <spiv> I very much doubt the protocol 3 warning is related.
[14:24] <spiv> After all, that message happens because it *isn't* using the new, shiny protocol :)
[14:26] <james_w> hi spiv
[14:27] <spiv> Good evening.
[15:15] <dash> hi, got a bzr-svn question
[15:16] <Jc2k> whats up
[15:17] <dash> how do I create a new branch in the svn repo? branch, then svn-push?
[15:18] <asabil> jamesh: ping ?
[15:23] <jelmer> dash: Yeah, svn-push is the command to use
[15:23] <dash> i'm trying to use bzr-svn to cheat on our svn workflow a little
[15:24] <dash> normally all branches are created from trunk, due to lack of merge tracking
[15:25] <dash> I want to use bzr-svn to create a branch from an existing non-trunk svn branch
[15:25] <dash> later on i'll probably merge it forward
[15:26] <dash> (meaning, create a new svn branch from trunk, apply the diff of the old branch to its WC, commit)
[15:27] <dash> still trying to figure out how to do that without confusing myself or our other svn users :)
[15:30] <radix> does svn-push create an empty revision for the creation of the branch?
[15:30] <radix> I think it didn't in the past, but I remember hearing about discussion on that
[15:31] <radix> many SVN-based merging methods or tools won't work unless it's there
[15:31] <radix> dash: (such as Combinator)
[15:31] <dash> yeah
[15:32] <dash> radix: right now i'm thinking i'll just not bother with svn-push at all
[15:32] <dash> and make a branch with combinator after the pending branch is merged, and copy the diff manually into it
[15:35] <dash> crude, but effective!
[15:49] <tethridge> is there a known bug where you can't resize the width of olive aka "bzr vis" to make it smaller?
[15:51] <tethridge> I can't find a bug on launchpad or google
[15:51] <tethridge> I'm not sure if olive is considered part of bzr
[15:52] <dash> i'm pretty sure bzr vis and olive are different
[15:52] <tethridge> it looks like the same user interface to me
[15:52] <tethridge> I didn't install olive, I installed bzr-tools
[15:52] <pickscrap1> I thought they were both part of bzr-gtk?
[15:53] <tethridge> that's one way to limit your bug count
[15:53] <tethridge> make it impossible to find the project in launchpad.  :-)
[15:54] <tethridge> I'll add a bug
[15:57] <beuno> tethridge, viz is a part og bzr-gtk
[15:57] <tethridge> beuno, thanks.  I'm adding a bug there now.
[15:57] <beuno> so please file the bug against bzr-gtk, and thanks for reporting it  :)
[15:58] <semslie> jelmer: I didn't manage to reproduce that problem I was having yesterday, but I did find that if I cleared the svn-cache before and after rebasing, then the svn-push worked without a hitch. Perhaps this is worth adding as a comment in that bug?
[16:15] <Stavros> hi
[16:15] <beuno> hey  :)
[16:15] <beuno> well
[16:15] <Stavros> so how do i do that? :P
[16:15] <beuno> bzr branch lp:bzr
[16:15] <Stavros> in my site-packages dir?
[16:16] <beuno> well, this is windows or linux?
[16:16] <Stavros> windows
[16:17] <beuno> hrm, well, in Linux you just symlink the bzr executable to /usr/bin
[16:17] <beuno> so I imagine you can do something similar, but I can't really give you specifics, as I haven't run windows in years
[16:17] <Stavros> hmm
[16:18] <Stavros> i can't even find which script runs when i run bzr in windows...
[16:18] <Stavros> oh wait, "which bzr" works
[16:18] <beuno> markh, maybe you can provide some insight on how to run bzr.dev on windows?
[16:19] <Stavros> beuno: actually i probably only need to pull bzrlib
[16:19] <beuno> (he's probably not around yet)
[16:19] <beuno> Stavros, well, in general, yes
[16:20] <beuno> and, you can't really *just* pull bzrlib
[16:20] <Stavros> hmm, why not?
[16:20] <beuno> well, it's not a separate branch
[16:21] <Stavros> ah
[16:21] <Stavros> well the bzr script that runs imports bzrlib
[16:21] <Stavros> and that's the only thing i have in my site-packages
[16:23] <beuno> well, let me know how that goes  :)
[16:23] <Stavros> will do :)
[16:26] <awilkins> Yeah, just pull bzr.dev and change the script to point to THAT bzrlib instead
[16:27] <Stavros> let me try that
[16:27] <awilkins> I don't dogfood it though, just test it
[16:27] <awilkins> Which is cd <bzr.dev> ; python bzr selftest [options]
[16:28] <muszek> hi... would "bzr: ERROR: [Errno 13] Permission denied" mean that I don't have sufficient permissions somewhere withing .bzr or within working directory?
[16:29] <beuno> muszek, it depends if you're pushing through ssh/sftp/ftp or locally
[16:29] <beuno> locally, yes, because it updates automatically
[16:30] <beuno> remotely, within .bzr
[16:31] <muszek> bueno: I've made a commit from a remote machine (binded to this repo) without a problem... now I want to update this tree and that's the error I get
[16:32] <beuno> muszek, then it's probably within the working tree
[16:32] <beuno> did you peak in .bzr.log?
[16:32] <beuno> it should say what file is complaining
[16:33] <muszek> bueno: I added myself to a group "hotels", chowned everything to belong to this group and then chmodded everything g+w
[16:33] <muszek> bueno: looking now
[16:38] <muszek> bueno: it's just this error + a bunch of python error messages, which I don't really follow... would you please take a look at: http://alpha.muszek.com/bzr.txt ?
[16:40] <beuno> muszek, it seems to be either this file: webroot/css/hotels.css, or the one after it
[16:41] <beuno> could you run a "ls -l" on that dir and check for what permision/users are set??
[16:42] <muszek> bueno: I followed these instructions to make it "multiuser-friendly" - http://buszek.mine.nu/temp/bzr.setup
[16:42] <muszek> everything belonged to tomekg before that.
[16:42] <beuno> oh, so we should blame james_w, that's great news!  :)
[16:43] <muszek> to me permissions seem to be fine... everything belongs to tomekg/hotels
[16:43] <james_w> what did I do this time?
[16:43] <muszek> heh :).  I talked to him maybe 2 months ago when was setting another repo (same server)... it works fine.
[16:43] <beuno> muszek, and you are updating with a user via ssh/sftp, which is the "hotels" group?
[16:43] <beuno> hi james_w   :)
[16:43] <james_w> oh, yeah, I thought something about this was familiar
[16:43] <james_w> hi beuno
[16:43] <james_w> hi muszek
[16:44] <muszek> bueno: in the bzr.setup there's a "newgroup"... I substituted it with "hotels"
[16:44] <muszek> hi james_w ... as you can see, your help isn't forgotten :)
[16:44] <james_w> not forgotten because it didn't work :-)
[16:45] <muszek> :)
[16:46] <muszek> this commit creates/modifies/deletes files and creates a new dir... is it possible that I don't have a permission for something?
[16:47] <muszek> s/commit/revision
[16:51] <muszek> bueno: bzr log -v tells me that hotels.css is a last file... prior to that I manually erased one file that's been outputted after hotels.css (as you can see, previous error starts right after [23902] 2008-06-03 15:26:31.776 INFO: -D  webroot/css/reset-fonts-grids.css)
[16:51] <beuno> muszek, then it's probably a problem with deleting files
[16:52] <beuno> which I can't really understand why, so maybe james_w does  :)
[16:52] <muszek> bueno: but I've been able to delete it from command line (using the same user)
[16:52] <james_w> well the failure is actually in a rename.
[16:53] <james_w> but it looks like that rename is actually part of a delete operation
[16:54] <muszek> hmmm... on my local machine I renamed manually (not via bzr) reset-fonts-grids.css to hotels.old-yui.css ... but I haven't added hotels.old-yui.css to bzr
[16:55] <danielm> hi all :).. sorry the noob question, but any idea why a bzr push to a LP new brach returns me: "but does not have a valid .bzr directory" ¿? maybe a bzr version problem?
[16:56] <james_w> muszek: can you check to see whether you have a .bzr/checkout/pending-deletion directory on the side where you are getting the error
[16:56] <james_w> muszek: and if you do what the permissions on it are.
[16:56] <james_w> danielm: does it work if you supply "--use-existing-dir" as suggested?
[16:57] <danielm> yes
[16:58] <muszek> james_w: no, I don't
[16:59] <muszek> james_w: I mean I don't have such dir
[16:59] <james_w> muszek: ok, can you run "BZR_PDB=1 bzr update" and when it gives you the prompt have another look?
[17:01] <muszek> james_w: http://pastebin.us/?show=m35797f60 (after hotels.css)
[17:03] <james_w> muszek: yup, can you see if you have ".bzr/checkout/pending-deletion" now please?
[17:04] <muszek> james_w: still nothing
[17:04] <muszek> and I am able to create a dir manually in .bzr/checkout
[17:05] <james_w> muszek: ok, so if you haven't got one then that may be why it is failing
[17:05] <james_w> actually, to be sure, can you run "find . -name pending-deletion" please?
[17:06] <james_w> muszek: you didn't exit the debugger before looking for the directory did you?
[17:06] <muszek> james_w: nothing found
[17:06] <muszek> james_w: I didn't exit
[17:06] <muszek> james_w: I did right before using "find", though
[17:07] <james_w> though it would be really odd if the directory were created by you and then you couldn't write to it.
[17:07] <james_w> ok, so can you please run "BZR_PDB=1 bzr update" again?
[17:07] <james_w> then when you get the prompt please type "p from_"
[17:07] <james_w> and then "p to"
[17:08] <muszek> james_w: http://pastebin.us/?show=m7212f682
[17:09] <james_w> ok, and again before quitting, can you see if you have "/var/www/hdev/app/.bzr/checkout/pending-deletion/"
[17:10] <james_w> I'm assuming that "/var/www/hdev/app/app_controller.php" exists.
[17:10] <muszek> app_controller.php exists, pending-deletion still doesn't
[17:10] <muszek> debugger is running
[17:11] <james_w> weird
[17:11] <beuno> muszek, you could you possibly be testing through ssh, and pushing through ftp/sftp?
[17:11] <james_w> and so why is it EPERM and not ENOENT?
[17:12] <james_w> muszek: can you please run (normal shell) "cp /var/www/hdev/app/app_controller.php /var/www/hdev/app/.bzr/checkout/pending-deletion/"?
[17:12] <james_w> it will fail, but I'm interested if it is EPERM.
[17:12] <muszek> jamesh: app_controller.php is a second modified file on the list (first one is .bzrignore)
[17:13] <muszek> bueno: I don't know exactly  what you mean.  I have a local repo that I binded with remote via "bzr bind bzr+ssh://remote.server/var/www/hdev/app" command.  I commited from local machine and now I'm updating on a remote server (via ssh)
[17:15] <muszek> james_w: muszek@alpha:/var/www/hdev/app$ cp /var/www/hdev/app/app_controller.php /var/www/hdev/app/.bzr/checkout/pending-deletion/
[17:15] <muszek> cprov: cannot create regular file `/var/www/hdev/app/.bzr/checkout/pending-deletion/': Is a directory
[17:15] <muszek> do you want me to create pending-deletion first?
[17:15] <cprov> muszek: excuse me ?
[17:16] <james_w> muszek: no need, how about "mv /var/www/hdev/app/app_controller.php /var/www/hdev/app/.bzr/checkout/pending-deletion/new-3"?
[17:16] <muszek> cprov: sorry... my xchat somehow auto-completed cp: to cprov: (don't know how that happened, I pasted the whole two lines)
[17:17] <muszek> james_w: mv: cannot move `/var/www/hdev/app/app_controller.php' to `/var/www/hdev/app/.bzr/checkout/pending-deletion/new-3': No such file or directory
[17:18] <james_w> muszek: ok, thanks, so there is something a bit weird there, but I don't think it's the cause of your problem, let me look at some code for a minute
[17:18] <muszek> james_w: ok...
[17:19] <muszek> james_w: maybe I should try that with a user who owns those files (tomekg)?
[17:19] <muszek> brb (2 minutes)
[17:19] <james_w> muszek: aha, can you in fact make the /var/www/hdev/app/.bzr/checkout/pending-deletion/ dir?
[17:19] <james_w> my guess is not.
[17:22] <muszek> one sec
[17:23] <muszek> created... now update or copying of app_controller.php? (btw... app_controller.php is not the file that was about to be deleted)
[17:24] <muszek> app_controller.php was merely modified in this revision
[17:26] <muszek> I tried bzr update and got an error telling me to delete pending-deletion (something about leftover files)
[17:26] <muszek> I removed it, updated again and this time I got an error... same thing, only with .bzr/checkout/limbo
[17:27] <james_w> telling you to delete limbo?
[17:28] <muszek> yes
[17:28] <james_w> and if you do that what happens
[17:28] <james_w> ?
[17:30] <muszek> "almost" the same, as original error
[17:30] <muszek> I recreated manually deleted webroot/css/reset-fonts-grids.css in the meantime
[17:30] <muszek> james_w: http://pastebin.us/?show=m4225a7de
[17:32] <james_w> ok, can you run again, adding the -Derror argument to bzr plrease?
[17:34] <muszek> james_w: http://pastebin.us/?show=m47e2de21
[17:34] <muszek> james_w: just to be safe, I chowned reset-fonts-grids.css from muszek:muszek to tomekg:hotels
[17:35] <james_w> ok, so it's the same error it seems
[17:36] <muszek> james_w: I could always revert to the last revision locally, remove and commit on the remote machine and commit back... but I'm affraid I'll run into the same thing next time I remove something locally
[17:37] <jam> abentley: BB is down again
[17:37] <james_w> muszek: care to add a line to bzr to test a hypothesis for me?
[17:37] <muszek> james_w: sure
[17:38] <abentley> jam: Thanks.  Back.
[17:39] <james_w> muszek: we need to edit bzrlib/transform.py , what distro are you running? Are you using the packaged version?
[17:39] <beuno> abentley, btw, I did keep on working on migrating BBs DB, I just came to the conclusion that I need to write a script to do it, so it will take a bit more time  :)
[17:39] <andrea-bs> is the launchpad plugin included in bzr 0.15?
[17:39] <abentley> beuno: Oh, okay.
[17:39] <muszek> james_w: hardy, packages from official repos (both machines)
[17:40] <james_w> cool, the easy case
[17:40] <muszek> james_w: the remote machine is installed from some really small image (~100MB, it's a VPS)
[17:40] <james_w> so, please edit /usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/bzrlib/transform.py
[17:41] <muszek> it was stripped of pretty  much everything (I don't even get a tab completion when I do sudo chmod wwwTAB)
[17:41] <james_w> line 1164, it should currently be
[17:41] <james_w> raise errors.ExistingPendingDeletion(deletiondir)
[17:41] <james_w> please add a line after that is
[17:41] <james_w> raise
[17:42] <james_w> it should be indented to the same level as the "if e.errno == errno.EEXIST:" line just above
[17:42] <muszek> care to remind me how to "go to" or check what line it is in vim? (sorry, I'm not a wiz :/ )
[17:42] <james_w> :1164
[17:43] <james_w> or 1164gg
[17:43] <james_w> and make sure you are indenting with spaces, no tabs.
[17:44] <muszek> single word "raise" inserted there
[17:44] <james_w> yup
[17:45] <muszek> update again?
[17:45] <james_w> I think there may be an error here that is being swallowed.
[17:45] <james_w> yes please.
[17:46] <muszek> did a regular bzr update... same error
[17:46] <james_w> same traceback with -Derror?
[17:47] <muszek> james_w: http://pastebin.us/?show=mfe42e12
[17:47] <james_w> ok, it's not that then
[17:47] <james_w> I'm stumped
[17:48] <muszek> I'm checking a dictionary for "stumped" :)
[17:49] <james_w> care to pastebin the output of "ls -lR .bzr"?
[17:50] <muszek> james_w: http://pastebin.us/?show=m7165e1dc
[17:51] <muszek> (reverting trasform.py back to what it was originally)
[17:52] <james_w> looks fine to me
[17:52] <james_w> would you like to file a bug report?
[17:53] <muszek> sure... only what would I put in it?
[17:54] <muszek> I can attach a log from this conversation.  Pastebins should be there for 1 month.
[17:54] <james_w> the traceback is the most important thing
[17:55] <james_w> can you paste that in directly, rather than relying on the pastebins please
[17:55] <muszek> also (unrelated to a bug report).  would you like me to try deleting locally and updating on a remote server with that repo that you helped me with ~2 months ago?
[17:55] <muszek> it seems to  work, only I'm not sure that I've done this exact operation there
[17:58] <muszek> james_w: I've done it on the other repo - it worked ok
[17:59] <muszek> same machines, same steps followed when setting them up
[18:01] <james_w> odd
[18:01] <muszek> james_w: just updated it with the user that owns all files (tomekg) and it worked fine
[18:02] <muszek> james_w: the last question: is this the output I should attach? http://pastebin.us/?show=mfe42e12
[18:25] <muszek> james_w: thanks a lot for you time.  bug report's here: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bzr/+bug/237140
[18:32] <muszek> I removed anothere file locally, commited and did bzr update on a remote machine - it went fine.  So I can't even reproduce it anymore :/
[18:53] <abentley> muszek: write permission on a file does not confer permission to delete it.  Only write permission on its containing directory does.
[18:53] <muszek> abentley: group had a write permission on a parent directory
[18:54] <muszek> and I was able to delete the file manually
[18:54] <abentley> Then perhaps it was inability to rename into the temporary directory.  Seems unlikely, though.
[18:54] <fullermd> Sure you logged out in between?  Groups are set when your session begins, so it doesn't pick up changes until you relog.
[18:55] <muszek> fullermd: I know, I opened new sessions right after I added myself to that group.
[18:55] <abentley> muszek: Whatever the cause, the permission error was encountered by the underlying OS.  Bazaar just propagated it.
[18:57] <muszek> abentley: I was able to create that file manually.  james____w (mistyped nick, I don't want to ping him) asked me to issue some commands and possibly their goal was to see if .bzr/checkout/pending-deletion  (or similar) was created and it wasn't... but I was able to create it manually.
[18:58] <abentley> muszek: Create which file?
[18:58] <muszek> create dir .bzr/checkout/pending-deletion
[18:59] <abentley> That's very odd.  If that directory cannot be created, you should get an exception immediately.
[18:59] <muszek> imo it's not worth looking into now that I can't even reproduce it.
[19:00] <abentley> Okay, looks like there's a flaw in that creation logic.
[19:00] <abentley> It special-cases ExistingPendingDeletion, and forgets to handle the rest.
[19:01] <james_w> abentley: yup, I asked him to add a raise there, but it didn't seem to show any errors
[19:02] <abentley> james_w: yeah, that doesn't make much sense.
[20:45] <siretart> how to set the 'submit' branch in my branch?
[20:53] <muszek> siretart: you might be looking for bzr bind command (I'm not even remotely good at this stuff)
[20:54] <siretart> muszek: no, that does something completely different
[20:54] <muszek> ok.  sorry, I can't help you then
[20:56] <james_w> siretart: $EDITOR ? :-)
[20:56] <beuno> siretart, you can do:  bzr send BRANCH --remember
[20:56] <james_w> siretart: I think "merge --remember" does it as well
[21:00] <siretart> james_w: ah, but when I don't actually want to do a merge, but just use 'bzr diff -rsubmit:', and fix the broken submit path?
[21:00] <siretart> beuno: that sounds interesting. will try that
[21:01] <james_w> siretart: I think it's in locations.conf, but I know that's not ideal.
[21:01] <james_w> siretart: btw, did you see that I would like an upload of builddeb? It's not urgent, but if you get some time soon then I would appreciate an upload.
[21:16] <siretart> james_w: no, I must have missed that
[21:16] <siretart> james_w: was that on pkg-bazaar?
[21:17] <james_w> siretart: ah, no problem, I snuck it in.
[21:17] <james_w> siretart: yes, and IRC a while before that, but you were away at the time.
[21:17] <siretart> ah, found the mail
[21:17] <james_w> it's sitting in the trunk branch on bzr.debian.org if you get time.
[21:17] <siretart> I'm not sure if I get to it today, but I see that I do that soon
[21:17] <siretart> need to fixup ffmpeg :/
[21:18] <james_w> siretart: good luck
[21:33] <perre> hi... i
[21:34] <perre> i'm using bzr to get a branch... i even tried the bzr devel branch (bzr branch http://bazaar-vcs.org/bzr/bzr.dev). but it gets too slow... i couldn't pass the Copying inventory texts 2/5 step
[21:34] <perre> am i missing sth?
[21:35] <perre> btw, version is 1.5
[21:36] <beuno> perre, is this a public branch?
[21:37] <perre> yes
[21:37] <beuno> perre, what's the URL?
[21:37] <perre> this happens even when i try to get the bzr development branch... but i first tried with mysql
[21:37] <perre> bzr branch lp:mysql
[21:38] <perre> or bzr branch http://bazaar-vcs.org/bzr/bzr.dev
[21:38] <beuno> ah, with big-ish branches
[21:38] <james_w> perre: have you run "bzr lp-login" before?
[21:38] <beuno> could you take a look at ~/.bzr.log?
[21:38] <beuno> james_w, AFAIK, branching through http is faster than ssh, currently, so that shouldn't be the problem
[21:38] <perre> yes, i tried but no success
[21:38] <james_w> beuno: ah, ok.
[21:39] <perre> beuno: yes, taking a look at .bzr.log
[21:39] <perre> what should i look for?
[21:39] <beuno> perre, could you do:  bzr branch lp:bzr -Dhpss
[21:39] <beuno> and then, tail .bzr.log
[21:39] <beuno> we should get more information from there
[21:40] <beuno> (speeds, eventual errors, etc)
[21:41] <perre> just lines like this
[21:41] <perre> 552.563  http readv of 56cec13f12c690045140c0067e99a2b4.pack  offsets => 516 collapsed 3
[21:41] <beuno> perre, could you paste the last ~100 lines from that in pastebin?
[21:41] <perre> hmm.. wait.. it just finished to get the bzr.dev
[21:41] <beuno> ah
[21:41] <beuno> :)
[21:41] <perre> but mysql is taking longer
[21:41] <perre> is because of the size of the branch?
[21:42] <beuno> perre, well, the size of the branch obviously matters a lot, yes
[21:43]  * beuno checks for the size of the mysql branch
[21:43] <perre> i see... the problem is that i didn't get any visual notification of progress...
[21:44] <perre> there is the progress bar, but since it is too big, it was slow
[21:44] <perre> and even using verbose didn't show anything else
[21:44] <beuno> right, we should do better in that area, yes
[21:44] <beuno> we have sucky progress bars  :/
[21:44] <perre> LOL :P
[21:45] <perre> ok... i will let the pc working
[21:45] <beuno> perre, feel free to file a bug for it  :)
[21:45] <perre> thanks folks!!!
[21:46] <beuno> that makes me wonder if http still really is slower than bzr+ssh...   spiv should know, but it may be a but too early
[21:48] <Peng> I benchmarked branch once, and with packs, nosmart+http was quite a bit faster than bzr+http.
[21:49] <Peng> That might've been with artificially low latency though.
[21:49] <beuno> well, lifeless explained why it was slower, but the fix wasn't too complicated, so it may have gotten fixed
[21:51] <beuno> at the last sprint, that is
[21:56] <beuno> Repository:
[21:56] <beuno>      54233 revisions
[21:56] <beuno>     706538 KiB
[21:56] <beuno> that explaines why it's slow to branch mysql  :)
[21:59] <j^> hi, a question, what is the difference between bzr+ssh and sftp?
[21:59] <j^> which one should be faster
[22:00] <beuno> j^, if the server has bzr installed too, than bzr+ssh, which uses the bzr smart server
[22:00] <Peng> j^: sftp simply uses sftp. bzr+ssh sshes in and runs 'bzr serve', which means bzr has to be installed on the server, but it's faster.
[22:01] <j^> ok great, have installed bzr on both sides will use bzr-ssh from now on
[22:01] <j^> pushing still is a bit slow
[22:02] <j^> but that would be ssh key negotiation or something like that
[22:02] <beuno> j^, it's especially fast with push/pull/merge operations, as it can easly find out what it needs to transfer
[22:04] <newz2000> what do you do when you accidentally commit an enormously large file and now your .bzr folder is too large?
[22:04] <mtaylor> buy more disk
[22:04] <Peng> newz2000: "bzr uncommit" ASAP?
[22:04] <Peng> Or that.
[22:04] <mtaylor> ;)
[22:04] <newz2000> hmm. Well, about the asap thing, I realize I did this months ago
[22:04] <Peng> Heh.
[22:04] <Peng> Oops.
[22:05] <j^> if its not the last commit bzr branch -rBEFORE and continue in the other branch
[22:06] <newz2000> what are the consequences of deleting the offending .knit file?
[22:06] <beuno> terrible  :)
[22:07] <beuno> it will probably break the repo
[22:07] <Peng> Ew, you're still using knits?
[22:08] <newz2000> yep, you're write, terrible.
[22:08] <newz2000> something is now foobar'd
[22:08]  * newz2000 tries something else
[22:08] <Peng> You deleted the knit?
[22:08] <newz2000> from a copy of the branch
[22:09] <Peng> When is deleting random files ever *good*?
[22:10] <newz2000> it was worth a try. Maybe I should have just cat /dev/null > the.knit
[22:10] <newz2000> but I'll try your suggestion and make the branch
[22:12] <beuno> newz2000, nothing good will come from anything other than re-branching without that file
[22:12] <beuno> there may be some magic possible with rebase
[22:12] <beuno> but I may be wrong
[22:13] <newz2000> is there detailed instructions on how to do this? I'm still not that experienced with bzr's advanced features
[22:14] <beuno> I'm pretty sure there isn't
[22:15] <newz2000> ok, so I have to find out what version the file was added at, then branch from right before that
[22:16] <beuno> yes, that seems like the safest option
[22:16] <newz2000> then what, copy thew newest versions of my files over to the branch and commit?
[22:16] <beuno> yeap
[22:16] <newz2000> ok, simple enough
[22:16] <beuno> you'll loose the history after that file was committed
[22:16] <beuno> but I guess it's a tradeoff
[22:17] <beuno> btw, newz2000, you do a lot of work with webpages, right?
[22:17] <newz2000> yeah that's no problem. I use bzr for a safety net and collobration
[22:17] <newz2000> beuno: yes
[22:17] <beuno> well, we've been working on a plugin that might interest you
[22:17] <beuno> bzr-upload
[22:17] <newz2000> what does it do?
[22:17] <beuno> it basically uploads files
[22:18] <beuno> no bzr-related information
[22:18] <beuno> remembers the last revision uploaded
[22:18] <Peng> newz2000: You might be able to rebase so that you won't have to recommit everything.
[22:18] <beuno> so bzr-upload will just upload what was changed since the last upload
[22:18] <beuno> main target is obviously for webpage developers
[22:19] <beuno> it's still under development, but I use it almost daily, and it's stable enough
[22:19] <newz2000> so right now I often use sftp to copy an entire site up, and your plugin would only copy the files that changed since the last time I uploaded?
[22:19] <beuno> correct
[22:19] <beuno> sftp/ftp
[22:19] <newz2000> and it leaves out the .bzr folder?
[22:19] <beuno> yeap
[22:19] <newz2000> that is nice
[22:19] <beuno> :)
[22:20] <newz2000> is it on the bzr website?
[22:20] <beuno> not really, but,  http://launchpad.net/bzr-upload
[22:20] <beuno> and/or:  bzr branch bzr-upload ~/.bazaar/plugins/upload
[22:20] <newz2000> I actually think about this quite often
[22:20] <beuno> and you're ready to help us test it  :)
[22:20] <newz2000> well, once a week or so
[22:21] <beuno> yeah, I did too. So, a bzr sprint and vila's magic later, we're pretty close
[22:22] <newz2000> ok, so I apparently bzr rm'd the file a while ago and I'm not sure how to find out what revision to branch from
[22:22] <newz2000> is there a way?
[22:22] <beuno> newz2000, bzr log filename
[22:22] <beuno> should still tell you I think
[22:23] <newz2000> bzr: ERROR: Path does not have any revision history: live.backup.sql.gz
[22:23] <newz2000> how would you interpret that?
[22:23] <beuno> is that the full path?  that file was in the root of the branch?
[22:24] <newz2000> I guess I don't know
[22:24] <newz2000> I think so though, it's not a deeply nested project
[22:25] <beuno> hrm
[22:26] <ToyKeeper> bzr log -v | grep -20 my.file.name ?
[22:27] <beuno> right, it doesn't work once the file is gone
[22:27] <beuno> there should probably be a bug about this...
[22:27]  * beuno looks
[22:28] <newz2000> no luck using log -v. :-) I guess most people who use vcs don't want to delete segments of their history
[22:28] <beuno> right, bug #181520
[22:28] <newz2000> so can I look for missing revisions?
[22:29] <ToyKeeper> Hmm, works for me.  "bzr log -v" with no other parameters shows all files added/removed, even if they on longer exist.
[22:29] <beuno> newz2000, I'd say fo something like:   bzr log -v > log.temp, and then grep log.temp for that file name
[22:29] <ToyKeeper> s/on longer/no longer/ :)
[22:29] <beuno> find the last revision it was added, go form there
[22:30] <newz2000> wow, maybe I'm just really confused, it's not even in log.temp
[22:30] <newz2000> oh
[22:30] <newz2000> my copy is small
[22:31] <newz2000> my copy apparently didn't have the file in its history
[22:32] <beuno> ah, well, that solves a lot  :)
[22:33] <newz2000> ok, well, I have no idea what happened but it's fixed now.
[22:33] <newz2000> Thanks a bunch for your help
[22:33] <beuno> np  :)
[23:22] <mwhudson> so if you have a lightweight checkout and the branch it's a checkout of has moved
[23:22] <mwhudson> is there an easier way of updating things than 'emacs -nw .bzr/branch/location' ?
[23:23] <awilkins> bzr bind <new_location> ?
[23:26] <mwhudson> hm, i thought that complained if it couldn't find the old location
[23:26] <mwhudson> i'll have to remember to try it next time :)
[23:28] <spiv> mwhudson: bzr switch
[23:29] <mwhudson> spiv: no, that definitely complains
[23:30] <beuno> mwhudson, howdy
[23:31] <mwhudson> beuno: hi!
[23:31] <beuno> mwhudson, how's everything?
[23:32] <mwhudson> beuno: ok, still worrying mostly about the ~vcs-imports stuff
[23:32] <beuno> mwhudson, ah, you always get to work on the fun stuff...  :)
[23:32] <beuno> is that what made code scanner crazy the other day?
[23:33] <mwhudson> no
[23:33] <mwhudson> that was something else :)
[23:33] <beuno> heh, I'll keep on guessing then
[23:33] <beuno> did you have a chance to take a peak at the latest branch I uploaded?
[23:34] <mwhudson> no :(
[23:34] <beuno> ah, np
[23:34] <beuno> I've done a few tests, and I can get a 30k diff without many problems
[23:35] <beuno> the current code is still a little hackish, but it does seem promising
[23:35] <beuno> there is a few good reasons, aside from zpt that it does render faster/with less memory, one of them being we don't render/process it twice, for unified/side by side view
[23:36] <beuno> unless you can think of something else that would be better, I'm going to cleanup that branch, and get it into a usable state, with the API upgrades and whatnots
[23:37] <mwhudson> oh yes, that unified/side-by-side stuff is pretty dumb :(
[23:37] <mwhudson> it complicates all kinds of linking stuff with cookies and so on
[23:37] <mwhudson> i think trac's diff view is quite nice, fwiw
[23:39] <beuno> ah, it's more like the unified diff
[23:40] <beuno> but nicer
[23:40] <beuno> I think I actually like the side-by-side more, but we can provide both with this ajaxish interface, and let the user decide
[23:40] <beuno> side-by-side is a bit more expensive to generate, but not terrible
[23:45] <mwhudson> it does tend to be very very wide though
[23:46] <beuno> yes, and I'm only testing on bzr.dev, which is very careful not to go over 80 characters
[23:47] <beuno> Still like it though, it's more vimdiff-ish
[23:51] <jam> beuno: btw, one of the issues with color encoding is when you see the unified diff, the side-by-side doesn't matter as much
[23:51] <beuno> jam, aaah, that makes sense  :)
[23:51] <jam> most people seem to feel side-by-side is prettier
[23:52] <jam> I do prefer vimdiff to unified diff, though I'm comfortable with unidiff at this point
[23:53] <beuno> jam, would adding + and - still address that, or do you think we should opt for different colors anyway?
[23:56] <poolie> hello
[23:56] <beuno> mornin' poolie
[23:58] <lifeless> moin
[23:59] <jam> poolie: I'm around for the call after all
[23:59] <jam> beuno: lifeless is the one you should be asking
[23:59] <jam> he can tell you whether it is all just grey or not
[23:59] <beuno> morning lifeless  :)


 So, there's that. Is there gonna be a meeting today?
[20:34] <kgiii> Wait... The clocks changed, so that might be it.
[20:35] <kc2bez> Yeah, same time 2100 utc but that is 5 PM for us east coast us folks.
[20:36] <kgiii> Yeah, I missed last week and my clocks all change automatically so it took me a second to figure it out.
[20:36] <kgiii> Thanks, by the way. I'll be here for the meeting.
[20:38] <kc2bez> Sounds good. I'm wrapping up here at work and hope to be on time.
[20:45] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [rMANUAL4e0613fbdbc4: Fix caplitilization for LibreOffice Writer] lynorian (Lyn Perrine) committed: https://phab.lubuntu.me/rMANUAL4e0613fbdbc4
[20:56] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [rMANUALbdf922eaa686: Fix capitlization] lynorian (Lyn Perrine) committed: https://phab.lubuntu.me/rMANUALbdf922eaa686
[21:11] <kc2bez> Sorry I am late.
[21:11] <kc2bez> !standup
 o/
[21:12] <lynorian> bridge is double posting
[21:12] <kgiii> Here.
[21:12] <kc2bez> ugh on the double posts
[21:12] <lynorian> o/
[21:15] <kc2bez> standby I will restart the bridge
 *grabs a nuke and does it for kc2bez*
[21:17] <teward> GLORY TO THE BRIDGE
[21:17] <kc2bez> cool
[21:17] <teward> ... now why isn't it relaying here
 good it's working and not duping
[21:17] <teward> there you go
[21:17] <kc2bez> back to the meeting
[21:17] <teward> slow irc is slow :P
[21:17] <lynorian> I missed my time to say close your eyes I got double posting
[21:17] <kc2bez> Lol
[21:18] <kc2bez> @Leokolb is up first
 Relatively quiet this past week (other than earthquakes,volacanic eruption and 4th wave covid-19 and lockdown - 1st jab tommorrow) -
 tested Hirsute daily builds  - old bug 885086 - (Desktop folder not translated) https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-translations/+bug/885086 back again in most if not all flavours - I intend to test this in the AM in Icelandic and Danish -
 done  --- and thanks to all
 @Leokolb have you shared that in #ubuntu-quality?
 there's reports of other apps not working, if it's the same bug then that's related
 Yes I have
 👍
[21:19] <kc2bez> Thanks @Leokolb
[21:19] <kc2bez> kgiii: over to you
[21:19] <kgiii> I've continued with my daily testing and support. I've done a ton of support at linux.org and am now a moderator/staff there. Other than that, I've found a new bug (icon theme issues) and will continue to hunt for bugs. I'll go ahead and thank everyone ahead of time and say you're welcome for my contributions. (That is all.)
[21:20] <lynorian> link to icon themme issues bug?
[21:20] <kgiii> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/papirus-icon-theme/+bug/1920691
[21:21] <kc2bez> Perfect, thanks for that.
[21:21] <kc2bez> I know that was impacting other flavors as well and I mentioned that in -quality
[21:21] <kgiii> Thanks.
[21:22] <kc2bez> lynorian: you are next
[21:23] <lynorian> I have found quite a few things I did not capitlize in the manual properly and fixed that. Also spellchecked lxqt-archiver
[21:23] <lynorian> I also fixed an out of date libreoffice writer screenshoot and added zoom sliders in lower right hand corner to all of libreoffice
[21:24] <lynorian> that is my contributions for this week
[21:24] <kc2bez> Excellent, thanks Lyn!
[21:24] <kc2bez> I lost a whole week somewhere.
 that's my fault I stole your neural energy to keep my energy up this week ;)
[21:25] <kc2bez> Cool, I am glad someone found it
[21:26] <kc2bez> Anything else to add @teward001
 didn't do much from the infra side of things
 saw the rash of CI failures in a row yesterday and stabbed it, looks like all the errors were on LP's side
 or legitimate build failures
 Council stuff but not devel stuff much.  *glares at @tsimonq2 for reasons*
 nothing else from me though.
 OH i did get you and wxl LXD console access to both envs :P
 but that's from 2 weeks ago that i just remembered :P
[21:27] <kc2bez> Yup, I used it minutes ago ;)
 first RPi 400 test image made.
[21:27] <kc2bez> Cool
 looks like it worked, but not distributable ready
 i have to remove some test stuff i put in there manually.
 need more infra for the other RPis (3, 4) so will file that with Council later.
[21:28] <kc2bez> Sounds good
 that's about it though
[21:28] <kc2bez> Thanks for all the help.
 happy to.  i know the Pi images are desired.
 I am ready to test RPI4 anytime just let me know
 i can't make them nice an automated like they used to be, but I can produce the RPi images and then dump them to the Internet for everyone
 @Leokolb will take yo up on that but I've had to do the RPi 400 image three times to get it to a functional state
 ERR:NonTrivial
 it's also UNFORTUNATELY not OEM-install-prompt ready
 so it ships with a 'default' username and password - rose an issue on the Desktopify tool from Wimpress for that, but I think that's more a Cala / Lubuntu thing specifically
[21:29] <kc2bez> Oh yeah, OEM is another whole ball of wax
 so until y'all fix the Cala OEM chaos I'mma just ship with a default password
[21:30] <kc2bez> Cala on arm might be an issue too
 perhaps.  that's something to check
 but we need functional RPi images anyways.  don't be surprised if the Council sees a request I don't vote on for the RPi 4 infra so I can get one here to actually test/build with.
[21:30] <kc2bez> Lot's of gotchas there with bootloaders and whatnot
 I have an RPi 400 so i do heavy tests.
 kc2bez: indeed.  Well, what I need is not the Cala installer but the user configuration components that get prompted after boot
[21:31] <kc2bez> We might be able to pull that off.
 and the reason for that is the way the image builds here in my env for tests is we start with Server, and use the Desktopify tool.  Which... is busted for hirsute+ so i'm getting it working for Focal first.
 (i have change requests in to Desktopify but Wimpress is lazy so)
[21:32] <kc2bez> Me too I think
 kc2bez: if we can at least get a Cala functional bootable OEM state where it's already 'installed' but just does the User Configuration then when someone has an image in place on their RPi after cloning it, first-boot goes to a user prompt
 that'll be a I-series+ goal i think though
[21:33] <kc2bez> For sure
 if Wimpress doesn't wake up and solve the problems he's got (100+ PRs!) then I'mma just fork the darn thing and we'll maintain an Lubuntu fork for Desktopify
 (though it's on GH because i'm lazy :P)
 (it's not on the repos anyways)
 but I haven't devoted a toooooooon of cycles to that for $FTJobReasons
[21:34] <kc2bez> Same here.
[21:34] <kc2bez> Ok, anyone have anything else?
[21:35] <guiverc> belated g'day folks, sorry nothing though
 sorry for the mini brain dump :)
[21:35] <kc2bez> thanks for being here guiverc
[21:35] <guiverc> usual support testing etc
[21:35] <kc2bez> No worries @teward001
[21:35] <kc2bez> Thanks for that guiverc
[21:37] <kc2bez> I did (finally) add a discourse post for this week, I updated a few things. Hopefully I can be a little more prompt for next week.
[21:37] <kc2bez> Thanks everyone!
[21:40] <theloudspeaker_> i was pinged
[21:40] <theloudspeaker_> ah
[21:40] <theloudspeaker_> meet
[21:44] <theloudspeaker_> I nuked my hisute install today for testing Fedora 34.someone ping me once we are near beta release. I can help with tests.
[21:48] <wxl> here, but buried by work and life right now. haven't done much anywho
[21:57] <guiverc> testcase checklist has been udpated for hirsute/21.04; is also half-filled already  (thanks @Leokolb)
[21:57] <guiverc> https://phab.lubuntu.me/w/release-team/testing-checklist/
[22:09] <kc2bez> theloudspeaker_: beta release is next week.
[22:21] <theloudspeaker_> Noted.


[00:27] <TeTeT> any idea what's wrong here:
[00:27] <TeTeT> % bzr push
[00:27] <TeTeT> Using saved location<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[00:27] <TeTeT> No handlers could be found for logger "bzr"
[00:27] <TeTeT> Connection to bazaar.launchpad.net closed by remote host.
[00:27] <TeTeT> bzr: ERROR: exceptions.AssertionError: end of file reading from server
[00:35] <jkakar> Do the --fixes and --author options to 'bzr commit' do anything other than add metadata to the revision?
[00:36] <jkakar> TeTeT: That looks a misconfiguration in Launchpad (which is a complete guess on my part).
[00:37] <TeTeT> jkakar: ok
[00:38] <jelmer> jkakar: no, revision metadata is all it is
[00:38] <jkakar> jelmer: Ah, cool.  Thanks.
[00:40] <jkakar> Hmm.
[00:41] <jkakar> Can one pass multiple bug numbers to --fixes.  ie: Is it just a string that can be used like: bzr commit -m "My message." --fixes "1234,2345"
[00:45] <jkakar> Hmm.
[00:45] <jkakar> Am I missing something or are --fixes and --author values not shown in bzr log?
[00:45] <jkakar> How do I discover this data?
[00:50] <jkakar> Actually, it does appear to include an "Author: ..." line in the log.
[05:08] <lifeless> rofl
[05:08] <lifeless> btw, hi
[05:53] <jdub> how much space does bzr use when committing binary files?
[05:53] <spiv> jdub: "some" ;)
[05:55] <jdub> does it have another complete copy of the binary file in the repo, and a new one for each change, or...?
[05:55] <spiv> jdub: if you commit multiple versions of a binary file, it'll typically do ok deltas of that (splitting on \n, just like text files), and I think there's also some gzipping on top of that.
[05:57] <jdub> but the initial commit will pretty much double the size (between the working dir and repo)
[05:57] <jdub> ?
[05:57] <spiv> I'm not sure what you mean.
[05:57] <spiv> The initial commit has to make a copy of the file to record it in the repo.
[05:59] <spiv> So going from "bzr init . ; bzr add" to "bzr commit", it will double the disk usage (ignoring the gzipping).
[06:01] <jamesh> jdub: it depends on how well the binary compresses
[06:01] <jamesh> same for text
[06:06] <spiv> jdub: still here?
[06:10] <jdub> yeah, sorry
[06:10] <jdub> back
 I'm not sure what you mean.
 The initial commit has to make a copy of the file to record it in the repo.
 So going from "bzr init . ; bzr add" to "bzr commit", it will double the disk usage (ignoring the gzipping).
 bzr doesn't cope particularly gracefully with large files yet (binary or not).
 (hooray, lag)
 It'll hold the entire file in memory (sometimes two or three times) to do some operations.  So depending on the files, that might be a larger problem for you than the repo size.
[06:12] <spiv_> (not sure how much of that got through the first time)
[06:12] <jdub> yep, go all that
[06:12] <spiv_> Ah, good :)
[06:12]  * jdub has a starting point of 514MB of binary files... ;-)
[06:13] <jamesh> ISO images?
[06:13] <spiv_> Ah-hah.  I thought you might have large files given that you were worried about repo size...
[06:14] <jdub> jamesh: almost -- windows xp install files 8)
[06:15] <jamesh> jdub: ah.  514 MB of files total rather than a single 514 MB file
[06:15] <jdub> yeah
[06:23] <jamesh> jdub: so you probably need to worry more about the maximum sized file
[06:23] <jamesh> and the gzip compression probably won't help much, since the install files would already be compressed
[06:24] <spiv> The good thing about compressed files is they typically have \n bytes at regular intervals...
[10:03] <weigon_> jelmer: g'morn ... bzr branch against a svn-tree still doesn't work: http://p.caboo.se/111476
[14:48] <fullermd> Boy, it sure is nice and quiet when everybody's off at meetings...
[15:06] <lifeless> morning
[15:07] <lifeless> fullermd: bite your tongue
[15:07] <lifeless> :)
[15:07] <fullermd> Did that yesterday, actually.  It'll be a few more days yet before I forget how much it hurt and do it again.
[15:17] <lifeless> heh
[15:45] <lifeless> hi thumper, phanatic
[15:45] <phanatic> hey lifeless
[15:45] <thumper> lifeless: howdy
[16:49] <Verterok> beuno: ping?
[16:55] <beuno> Verterok, pong!
[16:55] <Verterok> Hi!
[16:55] <bialix> hey lifeless
[16:56] <beuno> hey, I finally re-implemented the new XML format and been using it for a week or so
[16:56] <bialix> luks: ping
[16:56] <Verterok> beuno: availabale for a chat about xmloutput? (mainly about log --xml)
[16:56] <beuno> Verterok, everything works great. Just had that small glitch with the XML format, which I saw you already fixed in trunk
[16:57] <beuno> Verterok, sure
[16:57] <luks> bialix, hi
[16:57] <Verterok> beuno: nice!
[16:57] <bialix> hello, luks
[16:57] <bialix> did you see my e-mail about QBzr(qlog) + packs
[16:57] <Verterok> beuno: it's fixed more or less :P. I found a few cases not handled (correctly) by the plugin
[16:57] <luks> yes
[16:58] <luks> it probably just need some lock_read/unlock calls
[16:58] <luks> *needs
[16:58] <beuno> Verterok, is it skipping revisions, or just XML correctness?
[16:58] <luks> but I haven't tested it on any pack repo yet
[16:58] <bialix> luks: I think so
[16:59] <Verterok> beuno: xml correctness in deep merges
[17:00] <bialix> luks: goffredo did good job with unidiff, I integrated second version of his patch to my branch.
[17:00] <beuno> Verterok, when specifically does it fail?  I haven't bumped into it these days yet
[17:00] <Verterok> beuno: the current issue is how to correctly show some cases like a merge who has a merge inside it
[17:01] <beuno> (I'm parsing XML in a much more stricter way so I can eventually release the code and help test the XML a bit better)
[17:01] <Verterok> beuno: I found it testing with in bzr.dev
[17:02] <beuno> Verterok, so it's when you have nested merges?   how does the regular bzr log output show that?  it keeps tabulating?
[17:03] <Verterok> beuno: running bzr log -r 2420..2481 in bzr.dev (with and without --xml switch)
[17:03] <Verterok> beuno: the case can be found in the revno 2447.1.7
[17:06] <Verterok> beuno: the nested merge is revno 2208.4.4
[17:07] <beuno> Verterok, that's odd, 2447.1.7 is only one level deep
[17:07] <beuno> I see 2466 > 2447.1.7
[17:08] <beuno> Verterok, I see what you mean with 2208.4.4
[17:08] <Verterok> 2447.1.7 -> 2208.4.4 (without a log )
[17:08] <Verterok> beuno: the current xml don't support this kind of nested merge, the problem seems to be that we expect that all merge have a <log>, but this case doesn't have one :P
[17:10] <Verterok> beuno: it's not a problem for your parser (at least I think so), because the revision is included in the xml, but it isn't nested correctly
[17:10] <beuno> Verterok, AFAIK, it breaks the structure, right?  the <merge> bit
[17:10] <Verterok> beuno: yes
[17:11] <beuno> Verterok, I don't think we have 2 level merges yet, but I do want to make the parser as strict as possible, to help test the plugin out as much a possible
[17:12] <Verterok> beuno: I'm working in a test case for it and thinking how we should handle this case. any ideas are wellcome :D
[17:12] <beuno> Verterok, <merge> within <merge> comes to mind
[17:12] <beuno> although it isn't pretty, but come to think of it, neither is XML  :p
[17:13]  * Verterok agrees
[17:14] <Verterok> ok, if it's ok with you, I can fix this with nested <merge> tags
[17:14] <beuno> Verterok, absolutely, I can't think of a better way
[17:15] <Verterok> beuno: I finished almost all unittest, only misssing is missing (what a problem ;) )
[17:16] <beuno> Verterok, hahahah, I saw, I'm still not sure how the tests work though, haven't played around with em
[17:17] <Verterok> beuno: no prob, I'll write it.
[17:18] <Verterok> beuno: Also, I created a XMLLineLogFormatted to use it in pending merges, i think it can be usefull for missing
[17:19] <beuno> Verterok, I've been thinking on the best way to structure that, even for future use cases
[17:19] <beuno> I might try and actually put my idea down as code
[17:21] <Verterok> sure! if you need some help, and I can do something, just tell
[17:22] <Verterok> beuno: ah, I see your fix to the path escaping. I found that in bzrlib.xml_serializer there is a _escape_cdata to handle entities escaping
[17:24] <beuno> Verterok, oh, yeah, I was pretty sure that wasn't the best approach, I just needed to get it working at that point, so I did one of those ugly workarounds expecting you to come up with a much more elgant solution  :D
[17:24] <beuno> did you implement that on all user input?
[17:24] <Verterok> jajaja
[17:25] <beuno> because I only fixed it where I had the problem, didn't sanitize all the XML as I probably should of
[17:26] <Verterok> not sure if it's in all user input, i need to check that. I added it to path, commiter, commit message
[17:26] <beuno> Verterok, I think all that would be left is branch-nick
[17:27] <Verterok> beuno: the branch-nick it's handled in log, but not in version, fixing it. thanks!
[17:28] <beuno> Verterok, np, you're basically fixing things that I won't have to, so it's convenient :D
[17:29] <beuno> about the code restructure thing, I was thinking we might want to have a specific class that takes a revision number and returns it in XML, and we can use that from all commands
[17:30] <beuno> then just loop through whatever command, and add any magic needed (<merge>, etc)
[17:30] <beuno> that way we can centralize all data sanatization in one place
[17:30] <beuno> (I'm thinking ahead here, for when we try and push this as part of the actual bzr code)
[17:31] <beuno> that might make it easier to re-use that bit of code from everywhere else
[17:32] <beuno> I was thinking maybe just passing the revision number to it, and let it return it nicely formated
[17:32] <Verterok> sure, in the case of log, this is done in XMLLogFormatter.logrevision, but it recieves a LogRevision not revno
[17:32] <beuno> not sure how that would hit on performance though
[17:32] <beuno> right, LogRevision sounds saner
[17:33] <beuno> but don't we have much duplicated code?
[17:33]  * beuno goes and looks at the latest version
[17:33] <Verterok> LogRevision actually is bzrlib.log.LogRevision
[17:35] <beuno> Verterok, right, the code *is* already structured pretty much that way...
[17:36] <Verterok> yes, but in not convinced with the current logformatter in bzrlib, in the case of the xml output we need to do a lots of workarounds to handle merges, etc
[17:37] <beuno> right, that does seem the root of the messy code
[17:37] <Verterok> the issue is that the logformatter recieves one revision at a time, and doesn't known anithing about the context of that revision (if it's in merge or whatever)
[17:38] <Verterok> s/anithing/anything/
[17:38] <beuno> we should atempt to clean that up in a way that's convenient to format, and see if that still works cleanly with bzrlib
[17:39] <beuno> Verterok, the current output adds tabs to it, so it does know at some point if it's a merge
[17:39] <beuno> maybe we can hook there
[17:39] <beuno> tab == merge
[17:39] <beuno> no tab now, but yes before == close merge
[17:39] <beuno> might be cleaner
[17:39] <beuno> and offloads the scaling problem to bzr devs  :D
[17:40] <Verterok> yes, last night I make some cleanup of the xml logger and started to work that way cheking the merge_depth value
[17:41] <beuno> ah, you've been doing a lot of "doing", I haven't gotten past tossing it around in my head
[17:42] <Verterok> I'm quite sure that the way to go, and keep the logfomatter untouched
[17:42] <Verterok> me neighter ,I screwed log --xml badly  :D
[17:42] <beuno> muahahah
[17:43] <beuno> well, aside from the little tweak I added, the rest went perfectly this week
[17:43] <beuno> even added the feature for users to see their commits from our software
[17:44] <Verterok> great!
[17:44] <beuno> so everybody had their attention put on if they actually showed up
[17:44] <beuno> found a few bugs in the way I was doing things thanks to that
[17:45] <beuno> I'm confident I'll be able to release a loggerhead-like thingie in php in a near future
[17:45] <Verterok> user feedback is really helpful
[17:46] <Verterok> thanks to that I have 4 or 5 bugs to fix in bzr-eclipse, but first I need to close the nested merges things
[17:46] <beuno> yes, once I gather the patience to listen to absurd complaints from the windows-using graphic designers, feedback is great  :p
[17:47] <beuno> Verterok, ah, yes, I have steared a few ppl asking questions about bzr-eclipse here towards Launchpad these days
[17:47] <beuno> to bugs/questions
[17:47] <beuno> haven't atempted to use it in a long time know, so I'm not confident enough to answer anything
[17:49] <Verterok> it's slowly becoming more usable, maybe in a few days (with xmloutput fixed, and the changes to bzr-eclipse) I can promote it to "beta" and make a 0.1 release
[17:51] <Verterok> tought, the pre_alpha warning scared some users :P
[17:51] <Verterok> maybe a "its' beta" warning is more user friendly :D
[17:55]  * Verterok lunch
[17:55] <Verterok__> beuno: seeya later
[17:56] <beuno> Verterok__, buen provecho
[17:57] <Verterok__> thx!
[20:44] <hsn_> release schedule for 0.92?
[23:02] <jelmer> weigon_: thanks, fixd
[23:02] <weigon_> what ever I touch breaks :)
[23:03] <jelmer> that was actually a bit of carelessness on my side
[23:05] <Peng> "knitpack"? Not "knit-pack"?
[23:06] <weigon_> jelmer: I'm on 760 now, but still exploding
[23:06] <weigon_> but I think "StopIteration" is the bzr.dev on from 2-3 days ago
[23:08] <weigon_> jelmer: http://p.caboo.se/111576
[23:08] <weigon_> bzr.dev and bzr-svn are current
[23:08] <weigon_> it is a clean 'bzr branch'


[01:51] <claude_> Has anyone else lost all borders on xubuntu
[01:54] <GridCube> claude_, press alt-f2 and write: xfwm4 --replace
[02:01] <claude_> ha fixed it myself
[02:02] <claude_> but thanks for the effort
[03:12] <willijs3> anyone know how I can change the default settings of synclient on a reboot? Adding script to rc.local works on startup, and after doing some research, I created a script and added it to the rc0.d folder, but it's not working for me. Any ideas?
[03:45] <wieckj> Hey, I'm completely new to xubuntu. Every time I try to install something that requires authentication, it gets stuck at "applying changes" - the bar doesn't load. Any help?
[04:06] <k_sze> When I plug a USB flash drive, it gets automatically mounted. However, when I attempt to eject it in Xubuntu's File Manager, I get a blink of a "Permission Denied" message. Is that normal?
[04:12] <Unit193> wieckj: Try using the terminal and   sudo apt-get install <package name>  to see if that helps.
[04:12] <Unit193> k_sze: Nope, not for me.
[04:55] <mushe> SUP IM INSTALLING XUBUNTU BITCHES ;P
[04:55]  * mushe highfives all around
[04:55] <knome> mushe, please watch te language
[04:55] <knome> +h
[04:55] <mushe> and a beer for the ops!
[04:56] <mushe> the installer said click here
[04:56] <mushe> wheres my niggas?
[04:56] <knome> mushe, last warning, watch the language
[04:57] <mushe> WE GOING TO THE 2600 MEETING OR WHAT
[04:57] <mushe> I am sorry
[04:57] <mushe> language
[04:57] <mushe> it is an expression from h-town
[04:57] <mushe> HOUSTONE
[04:57] <mushe> werd
[04:57] <mushe> i like yalls rat
[04:58] <mushe> i threw a rat through a window once
[04:58] <mushe> do u see the irony
[04:58] <knome> is there a support question we can help you with?
[04:59] <mushe> your installer told me to join
[04:59] <mushe> i have not got to the technicals
[04:59] <mushe> i will be sure to be here when i reach them
[05:00] <mushe> done toots btchs
[05:43] <lancest> Keyboard scrolling and sound volume not working as in Gnome. Which file(s) to install? Thx
[05:43] <lancest> Xubuntu 12.04 BTW
[05:48] <gry> lancest, tried asking #ubuntu then?
[05:48] <lancest> Ok probably will.
[05:49] <knome> #ubuntu+1
[05:50] <gry> oh, yes, I sleep. don't read version numbers right. thanks knome
[05:56] <lancest> I'm in China it's afternoon
[10:09] <foobArrr> is there any gui program on a fresh xubuntu installation that shows hardware information?
[10:16] <TheSheep> foobArrr: no gui, you can use lshw or install lshw-gtk
[10:47] <foobArrr> thx, I didn't know there is a gtk interface for lswh
[11:28] <potapov> After upgrading from xubuntu 11.04 to 11.10 terminator's pseudo-transparency does not seem to work any more. I can get real transparency by changing "compositor"'s settings in "Window manager tweaks" section (i'm not sure there was such a section before upgrading), but real transparency is not what I need) Any suggestions?
[11:35] <nikolam> I have Xubuntu 10.04LTS64-bit changing default window manager to gnome's one, starting nautilus as desktop manager sometimes and now, saying "Not Authenticated" when i try to reinstall xfwm...
[11:37] <nikolam> How can it ib unauthenticated if system was installed from xubuntu alternate cd?
[13:11] <joeythesaint> I've got no idea if this is offtopic or not but I'm seeing some very annoying behaviour that appears to be GTK-related.
[13:11] <joeythesaint> Problem is, I'm only (currently) seeing it with Evolution, which I know isn't the supported mail client for Xubuntu.
[13:11]  * joeythesaint is running Xubuntu 12.04, currently, too.
[13:11] <joeythesaint> So I'm probably way off the map.
[13:12] <joeythesaint> If anyone has any suggestions, though, I'd happy try them out.
[13:13]  * joeythesaint posts an example screenshot: http://troll.ws/i/VGp9WH.png
[13:14] <TheSheep> joeythesaint: your gtk theme doesn't include a gtk3 theme, and epiphany is now a gtk3 application
[13:14] <joeythesaint> The black boxes at the top of the sidebar and around the mail header appear to be constant for almost any GTK theme I choose.
[13:14] <TheSheep> s/epiphany/evolution
[13:14] <TheSheep> sorry
[13:14] <joeythesaint> Ah.
[13:14] <joeythesaint> That's what I was concerned about.
[13:15] <joeythesaint> Seems like I've only got one or two themes installed total that have a gtk3 theme, then.
[13:15] <joeythesaint> Thanks, TheSheep.
[13:17] <TheSheep> sounds about right, there aren't that many themes yet
[13:59] <plusEVV> Question: I have added more workspace to my installation. I got like 8 now and that whould to
[13:59] <plusEVV> ups
[14:00] <plusEVV> do, but now the battgery and mail icons etc is on the left side of that and i dont want that on the center of the bar. I want the workspace tehre and all that all the way to the right.
[14:00] <plusEVV> How do i do that?P
[16:32] <metal55> Hello all
[16:33] <metal55> Quick question, I have downloaded SublimeText 2 and excellent text editor application, it seems to run straight from my downloads folder but I would like to install it properly
[16:33] <metal55> Do I just copy it into an 'applications' directory?
[16:33] <metal55> is there an installer type application I can point at it?
[16:34] <metal55> sorry for the noob questions
[16:34] <pleia2> in linux you don't strictly have a single authoritative "applications" directory
[16:35] <pleia2> I tend to put such things in my home directory under a folder I create called bin/
[16:35] <pleia2> if you want other users on your system to have access to it, you might put it in /usr/local/bin/
[16:35] <metal55> ah excellent thank you
[16:35] <pleia2> but it doesn't matter really, you can run it from Downloads forever if you want :)
[16:36] <metal55> cool
[16:37] <metal55> I don't seem to be able to put anything in usr/local/bin
[16:37] <metal55> its like I don't have permission
[16:37] <metal55> .. I only just installed xubuntu
[16:38] <Sysi> you need to use "gksudo thunar"
[16:39] <metal55> gksudo thunar?
[16:40] <metal55> sorry completely new to xubuntu
[16:43] <Sysi> run it in terminal or Alt F2 popup window
[16:44] <metal55> ahh I see
[16:44] <metal55> thank you
[16:45] <Sysi> (as it should tell you, be careful)
[16:49] <metal55> yep with you,
[16:50] <metal55> Dose anyone know if there are there any quick launcher applications like quick silver, launchy or alfred?
[16:51] <Sysi> several, for example synapse and gnome-do
[16:53] <metal55> fantastic synapse looks great
[16:53] <metal55> How do I add these applications to my "start menu"
[16:57] <Sysi> I think you can create entries with alacarte, I recommend installing it with "apt-get --no-install-recommends install alacarte"
[16:57] <Sysi> otherly it pulls half of gnome with it
[17:01] <metal55> awesome thank you very much for your help, its appreciated.
[17:33] <n2diy_> can I restart my panel? Xfce4-panel restart tells me it is already running.
[17:33] <Sysi> xfce4-panel -r should work
[17:35] <n2diy_> Sysi, thanks, that did the trick.
[17:37] <n2diy_> still have weird behavior though. when I switch between apps, the panel dissappears, but when I mouse over it, it reappers. It's not set to auto hide, and it is floating, now currently two inches above my screen border.
[17:44] <ThePendulum> Greetings
[17:44] <ThePendulum> I was wondering if it's possible to hide panels, without removing them
[17:46] <Sysi> in their settings
[17:52] <ThePendulum> That's basically only autohide
[17:52] <Sysi> you can remove xfce4-panel from session
[20:11] <lglcrtnd> dear all, I am new with Xubuntu I need a help to install SH file. Anyone?
[20:16] <lglcrtnd> no one ?
[20:17] <lglcrtnd> no one here?
[20:21] <skellat> lglcrtnd: Could you please explain further what you're trying to do with a SH file?
[20:43] <lglcrtnd> I am tring to install it via Terminal
[20:43] <lglcrtnd> but I cannot get the job done
[20:54] <lglcrtnd> how do I tune xubuntu start up programs?
[20:57] <lglcrtnd> i cannot open the program management
[20:58] <holstein> lglcrtnd: what are you trying to open>?
[20:59] <holstein> try opening whatever your are having trouble with from a terminal.. maybe you get some helpful output
[20:59] <lglcrtnd> what command I have to invoke
[21:00] <holstein> lglcrtnd: depends on what you are trying to open
[21:00] <lglcrtnd> I am in terminal as root now
[21:00] <holstein> why as root?
[21:00] <holstein> you mean, sudo -s ?
[21:01] <lglcrtnd> as root cause as admin the system doesn  t let me open that program
[21:01] <lglcrtnd> I want to open the package management program
[21:01] <holstein> what admin system?
[21:01] <holstein> lglcrtnd: sudo synaptic
[21:01] <holstein> sudo apt-get install synaptic if its not installed already
[21:02] <lglcrtnd> sudo synaptic did the job, THANK YOU
[21:03] <lglcrtnd> now I am looking for a program to install tat let me see the boot sequence of the programms that are loaded when I turn on my computer
[21:03] <lglcrtnd> any suggestions?
[21:05] <lglcrtnd> my goal is to speed up the boot sequence
[21:06] <lglcrtnd> this is because I have an old computer with 256MB of memory
[21:08] <holstein> lglcrtnd: i would go in the menu... there is something like "startup" or "sesssions" or "startup applications"
[21:08] <holstein> its in the settings, not too far in
[21:09] <lglcrtnd> well done; I have got it
[21:11] <Mokura> I'm getting strange errors with the Software Center.  I'm trying to re-install the Wine beta packages after an uninstall, but it keeps giving me a "check your connection" error (I'm definitely connected) then an "unauthenticated packages" error.  Any idea on why this might be happening?
[21:12] <holstein> Mokura: i would entertain the internet connection... i would try using synaptic or another package manger...
[21:12] <Mokura> Using apt-get from the terminal actually prompts me if I want to install the related packages marked as unauthed, but I'm wondering why it got marked like that in the first place.
[21:12]  * Mokura shrugs, attempts terminal wizardry.
[21:12] <holstein> it?.. the list? maybe you added a PPA
[21:12] <Mokura> Yes, I added Wine's PPA.
[21:12] <Mokura> It never gave me this problem on the initial install.
[21:13] <holstein> i would look at your sources... i would consider purging that PPA, and getting "back to normal" and going from there
[21:13] <Mokura> Ahh
[21:13] <Mokura> I shall try that.
[21:14] <Mokura> Welp, that fixed it.  Odd.
[21:14] <Mokura> Considering Wine's Ubuntu packages page tells you to add their PPA.
[21:15] <lglcrtnd> sorry guys, what is PPA? Are the sub-package that are related to the main installer?
[21:16] <Mokura> from what I understand, it's another source for packages
[21:16] <Mokura> instead of just x/ubuntu's sources
[21:16] <Mokura> I'm still learning so my definition could be a little off.
[21:16] <lglcrtnd> Mokura so another place to get the packages?
[21:16] <Mokura> Pretty much.
[21:18] <well_laid_lawn> !ppa
[21:18] <Mokura> Well then!
[21:19] <lglcrtnd> ty ubottu
[21:19] <well_laid_lawn> !bot
[21:21] <Mokura> also.  whenever I click on a search result from google, it appends a bunch of garbage to the page name, which tends to get in the way.  is that a google problem or a firefox problem?
[21:23] <holstein> Mokura: maybe you are using firefox google... go to http://google.com ...if that works in a way you are not comfortable with, consider another search provider
[21:23] <lglcrtnd> I use chromium and I have a clean search results with google.com
[21:24] <Mokura> Oh!
[21:24] <Mokura> I'll try that.
[21:24] <Mokura> I just set the homepage to about:home, so.
[21:24] <Mokura> normal google does it too.
[21:24] <Mokura> must be a firefox thing, I'll check mozillazine.
[21:26] <lglcrtnd> I have my hard disk very busy all the time. what to do to understand why and to kill the program that cause that overflow?
[21:30] <holstein> lglcrtnd: ps aux
[21:32] <TVasEyes> lglcrtnd (& holstein):  also  top
[21:35] <lglcrtnd> top is a better script as I can see in live-real time the usage of resorces
[21:36] <lglcrtnd> what is "Xorg" command?
[21:36] <holstein> something you need, if you want a GUI
[21:37] <lglcrtnd> ok holstein, I need this GUI
[21:39] <TVasEyes> lglcrtnd: Xorg is the server, if you're in runlevel 3 startx should get you there.
[21:41] <lglcrtnd> I see, its about X.org Foundation
[21:41] <lglcrtnd> can I configure Xorg?
[21:41] <TVasEyes> modern X will configure automatically
[21:42] <TVasEyes> although you can, of course, create your own xorg.conf
[21:42] <lglcrtnd> but is there anyway to hardering it?
[21:42] <TVasEyes> add -nolisten tcp to command line.
[21:45] <TVasEyes> lglcrtnd: depending on how you decide to start your graphical env, you could add the -nolisten switch in /etc/X11/xinit/xserverrc
[21:45] <lglcrtnd> a bit lost. I am in terminal as root, I invoke STARTX the answer is that the server is already running
[21:46] <TVasEyes> terminal or console?
[21:46] <holstein> in a terminal, from within XFCE
[21:46] <lglcrtnd> terminal
[21:47] <TVasEyes> well, then X is running already anyway. :)
[21:47] <lglcrtnd> yes
[21:47] <lglcrtnd> now I want to have a minimal load of graphical env
[21:47] <lglcrtnd> can I tune the graph server?
[21:47] <holstein> lglcrtnd: you do... XFCE is one of the lighter ones
[21:48] <holstein> if you want less, i would suggest LXDE
[21:48] <lglcrtnd> ok how to do XFCE? In terminal it says COMMAND NOT FOUND
[21:48] <lglcrtnd> LXDE ? Ok I need less
[21:48] <holstein> lglcrtnd: you are running xubuntu, correct?
[21:48] <lglcrtnd> yes holstein
[21:48] <holstein> xubuntu = ubuntu running XFCE, the XFCE environment
[21:49] <holstein> !xfce
[21:49] <lglcrtnd> clear and what about LXDE?
[21:49] <holstein> its another environment that is arguably lighter.. and may or may not suit your needs
[21:49] <TVasEyes> similar to XFCE but needs to be installed separately (not done that though )
[21:51] <lglcrtnd> ok guys, my question now is, can I tune XFCE so that it works with minimum graphical engine?
[21:51] <holstein> lglcrtnd: it really is quite minimal as-is
[21:51] <lglcrtnd> I see
[21:52] <TVasEyes> lglcrtnd: have a look in  Settings 'Session & Startup'  maybe you can do without something which autosarts?
[21:53] <lglcrtnd> TVasEyes done already
[21:53] <holstein> yeah, maybe bluetooth or printing support.. or the auto-updates... thats likely what you are seeing using the hard drive
[21:53] <lglcrtnd> killed them already
[21:53] <TVasEyes> that's basically it then..
[21:53] <lglcrtnd> true, it was a problem at the beginning
[21:53] <lglcrtnd> anyhow, I am running Xubuntu on one my old portable machine with 256MB and I am surprise of the results with this OS
[21:54] <holstein> i think other enviroments are lighter, but XFCE is a nice balance of function and lightness
[21:55] <TVasEyes> it might be heresy to suggest this here but slackware with WindowMaker will run happily in 128Mb
[21:55] <TVasEyes> :)
[21:55] <lglcrtnd> slackware is an OS?
[21:55] <TVasEyes> yes
[21:55] <lglcrtnd> ty for the info
[21:55] <well_laid_lawn> running just a window manager is lighter than using a desktop environment
[21:55] <TVasEyes> one of the oldest Linuxes
[21:59] <holstein> puppy linux too, sinc it runs from ram... still, i think xubuntu and lubuntu are nice choices that strike a good balance
[22:00] <TVasEyes> agree holstein, good usability all-round
[22:00] <TVasEyes> xubuntu, thst is
[22:00] <TVasEyes> s/thst/that/
[22:02] <lglcrtnd> early today I was trying to install bootcharter
[22:03] <lglcrtnd> that is a package available as repository
[22:03] <lglcrtnd> its a program to tune the start up process
[22:06] <lglcrtnd> I have installed it via synaptic
[22:06] <lglcrtnd> the installation was ok, now I cannot invoke it as I have lost it somewhere on my hard disk
[22:07] <TVasEyes> lglcrtnd: if you remove the 'quiet splash' (but leave the empty quotes) from /etc/default/grub  you get loads more info during boot.
[22:07] <lglcrtnd> I try
[22:09] <TVasEyes> also, dmesg  provides info on what happened during start-up
[22:09] <lglcrtnd> I am on Grub now
[22:10] <lglcrtnd> do I have to remove all the # simbols?
[22:12] <TVasEyes> lglcrtnd: no, just remove the two words from the something-something-COMMANDLINE entry
[22:13] <lglcrtnd> and I live the two "" ?
[22:13] <TVasEyes> exactly
[22:13] <lglcrtnd> cool
[22:14] <lglcrtnd> impossible to write
[22:14] <TVasEyes> you have to be root :)
[22:14] <lglcrtnd> ok
[22:17] <lglcrtnd> how to invoke from terminal to edit the file grub? EDIT? OPEN? ...?
[22:18] <TVasEyes> lglcrtnd: btw, I suggest that when you make changes to system files keep notes (in a text file?), really helps in a few weeks from now :)
[22:18] <TVasEyes> which editor are you accustomed to ?
[22:19] <lglcrtnd> good suggestion, I create text file to log my changes
[22:19] <lglcrtnd> abyword can be fine
[22:21] <TVasEyes> lglcrtnd: I always go root (a definite no-no her :) ), there's a gksudo or somesuch, ie "gksudo abiword".  someone more familar with 'proper' working practice should help you from here :(
[22:22] <TVasEyes> remember, abiword is a word processor, you MUST save a plain text file
[22:22] <lglcrtnd> yes, I will keep the plain text once I finish the editing. Ty
[22:24] <lglcrtnd> done all, thank you for your support
[22:24] <TVasEyes> enjoy :)
[22:28] <lglcrtnd> BTW dmesg -c give me a very large list of tasks!
[22:29] <TVasEyes> lglcrtnd: why the -c switch (which clears the buffer)?  simply  dmesg | less to read what happened.
[22:31] <lglcrtnd> yes
[22:31] <lglcrtnd> I have saved this conversation, as my first approch to Linux :)
[22:31] <lglcrtnd> good starting for me
[22:31] <TVasEyes> in that case I do not recommend slackware yet :-)
[22:31] <lglcrtnd> ehehe
[22:32] <lglcrtnd> I remove that line from the file ;)
[22:32] <TVasEyes> :)  ok.  got to go.  good luck.
[22:32] <lglcrtnd> thanks mate, bye for now
[23:05] <c_smith> is it at all safe to install Gwibber on Xubuntu?
[23:13] <TVasEyes> c_smith: their blog states: "Gwibber is included out of the box in Ubuntu 10.04", so, although I've never used it, it should be ok.
[23:36] <Marzata> Gwibber  is OK in Xubuntu.