[00:08] <teward> how would one typically add hardening flags to a package's compiler options?  I'm kinda confused by the hardening documentation i was able to dig up from Debian...
[00:14] <jtaylor> depends on how the package handles flags
[00:15] <jtaylor> if everything is well behaved see man dpkg-buildflags
[00:15] <jtaylor> if not, you have to dig through the source
[00:15] <jtaylor> or just test if it accepts flags during its configure equivalent
[04:27] <pitti> Good morning
[04:27] <pitti> mitya57: owncloud-client> ah too bad, I sent him a fix just a few months ago
[04:28] <pitti> mitya57: ah no, mixed that up with something else; yes, will do
[05:23] <infinity> darkxst: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/174466954/gnome-shell_3.10.4-0ubuntu6_3.10.4-0ubuntu7.diff.gz
[05:23] <infinity> darkxst: "session" isn't spelled with an "s" on the end.
[05:24] <darkxst> infinity, ah oops!
[05:25]  * darkxst wonders why I didn't get an email for build failure there!
[05:28] <infinity> darkxst: It didn't fail to build.
[05:28] <infinity> darkxst: But it's failing to migrate.
[05:28] <infinity> gnome-shell/i386 unsatisfiable Depends: gnome-sessions
[05:29] <infinity> darkxst: There's no reason it would fail to build, that was a dep, not a build-dep (in fact, that was your change).
[05:30] <darkxst> yes, of course, I will fix it
[06:30] <jamesh> mardy: hi.  Are you around to talk about online accounts a bit?
[06:38] <mardy> jamesh: hi! Yep
[06:39] <jamesh> mardy: I got side tracked with other tasks, but finally got around to turning on the extra debugging in signond
[06:39] <pitti> chrisccoulson: I suppose firefox was forgotten to get copied to utopic as well? (bug 1313464) can do now
[06:39] <jamesh> mardy: when trying to retrieve the access token, it seems signond thought the token had expired
[06:40] <jamesh> mardy: SoundCloud does not set an expiry time on their tokens in the OAuth2 response, which online-accounts was treating as Expiry==0
[06:41] <jamesh> So when I tried to retrieve the token, it discarded the token
[06:41] <mardy> jamesh: ouch, that sounds like a bug in our OAuth plugin, then
[06:42] <mardy> jamesh: can you please file a bug on signon-plugin-oauth?
[06:42] <jamesh> mardy: this is the problem code, right? http://code.google.com/p/accounts-sso/source/browse/src/oauth2plugin.cpp?repo=signon-plugin-oauth2#444
[06:42] <mardy> jamesh: yes
[06:42] <jamesh> I'll file the bug
[06:52] <jamesh> mardy: filed here: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/signon-plugin-oauth2/+bug/1316021
[06:53] <jamesh> Does that have enough information?
[06:53] <mardy> jamesh: yes, more than enough :-)
[06:53] <mardy> jamesh: I'll see if I can add a unit test for this
[06:54] <mardy> jamesh: the fix itself should be very easy
[06:54] <chrisccoulson> pitti, thanks. i normally upload the firefox beta to the devel release, but I haven't had time yet
[07:01] <LocutusOfBorg1> Hi ubuntu developers I have a big big problem with a gcc flag
[07:02] <LocutusOfBorg1> the problem seems to be in the gcc package ---> doanac
[07:02] <LocutusOfBorg1> doko,  :=
[07:02] <LocutusOfBorg1> :)
[07:03] <LocutusOfBorg1> https://github.com/Ettercap/ettercap/issues/547
[07:03] <LocutusOfBorg1> the problem is that "-Wl,-Bsymbolic-functions" makes the make test fail
[07:03] <LocutusOfBorg1> but in debian everything succeeds, while in ubuntu does not
[07:07] <LocutusOfBorg1> how can I trace down the problem?
[07:19] <RAOF> LocutusOfBorg1: So, building without symbolic-functions works?
[07:20] <RAOF> LocutusOfBorg1: Does ettercap do something strange like define empty functions providing the decoders and expect them to be overridden with the symbols from the main executable?
[07:21] <LocutusOfBorg1> yes it works
[07:22] <LocutusOfBorg1> and with symbolic-functions works in debian
[07:22] <LocutusOfBorg1> so the bug seems to be in ubuntu
[07:22] <LocutusOfBorg1> RAOF, this is the test we run https://github.com/Ettercap/ettercap/blob/master/tests/test_ec_decode.c
[07:22] <LocutusOfBorg1> just a stub, the real testsuite isn't implemented yet :p
[07:23] <LocutusOfBorg1> but my question is: the bug seems to be for sure in gcc ubuntu version, since I tried the debian/check package and it is working
[07:23] <LocutusOfBorg1> (I mean giving the same failure)
[07:26] <caribou> xnox: ping
[07:27] <RAOF> LocutusOfBorg1: Huh. Where do those decoders get added?
[07:29] <RAOF> LocutusOfBorg1: I'd _guess_ that passing --dynamic-list-data would get you a “working” test there.
[07:30] <RAOF> 'cause you appear to be relying on the fact that something is going to call add_decoder(decode_data) and resolve decode_data to your function pointer declared in the test, rather than in the library?
[07:32] <LocutusOfBorg1> what shoud this dynamic-list-data be passed?
[07:32] <LocutusOfBorg1> *where
[07:33] <pitti> chrisccoulson: ah, so I guess it wouldn't hurt to copy it for the time being to get the security updates?
[07:34] <chrisccoulson> pitti, yeah, that's fine. thanks :)
[07:41] <LocutusOfBorg1> RAOF, why the delta from debian? shouldn't be gcc almost equally behaving?
[07:43] <RAOF> LocutusOfBorg1: Debian doesn't pass -Bsymbolic-functions to ld by default?
[07:46] <LocutusOfBorg1> yes good catch RAOF !
[07:46] <LocutusOfBorg1> it isn't passed
[07:46] <RAOF> LocutusOfBorg1: I don't think Debian *do* automatically add -Bsymbolic-functions; it's not in the buildlog you linked, and it's not in LDFLAGS from dpkg-buildflags in SId.
[07:46] <LocutusOfBorg1> so what do you propose for solving?
[07:47] <LocutusOfBorg1> yes RAOF I see now
[07:47] <RAOF> You can either remove -Bsymbolic-functions from LDFLAGS, or you could add --dynamic-list-something-or-other to LDFLAGS.
[07:47] <LocutusOfBorg1> I didn't try in pbuilder to see the exported
[07:47] <RAOF> Well, or you could modify the test case to not assume you can interspose symbols in that way.
[07:47] <RAOF> s/rsp/rp/
[07:49] <LocutusOfBorg1> removing ubuntu LDFLAGS seems not a good thing...
[07:49] <caribou> lovely, ubiquity has decided that it did not want to terminate the upgrade of my desktop : Bug #1316032
[07:50] <LocutusOfBorg1> how can I try the --dynamic-list-data feature?
[07:50] <RAOF> LocutusOfBorg1: Frankly, I'd modify your test to test something more useful instead :)
[07:51] <LocutusOfBorg1> mmm how? I didn't write the test, and I don't know what does it do
[07:51] <LocutusOfBorg1> :)
[07:51] <RAOF> Check that add_decoder() works, check that get_decoder(...all those standard decoders...) returns non-null.
[07:52] <RAOF> Basically, remove the decode_* declarations at the top of the test file, and replace the checks with == NULL.
[07:52] <RAOF> (If I understand what's happening correctly, obviously ☺)
[07:53] <dholbach> good morning
[08:01] <LocutusOfBorg1> RAOF, I'll check them asap
[08:01] <LocutusOfBorg1> thanks for the useful hints!
[09:19] <pitti> dholbach: hey Daniel, wie gehts?
[09:19] <dholbach> hey pitti
[09:19] <pitti> dholbach: what do I need to do to update http://packaging.ubuntu.com/html/auto-pkg-test.html ?
[09:20] <dholbach> pitti, https://code.launchpad.net/ubuntu-packaging-guide :)
[09:20] <pitti> dholbach: I'd like to show the way that production CI uses now, and also point to the in-depth docs
[09:20] <pitti> dholbach: splendid, thanks
[09:20]  * dholbach hugs pitti
[09:20]  * pitti hugs back dholbach
[09:33] <pitti> dholbach: how does this magic work: The `libxml2 tests <libxml2_>`_ are very similar.
[09:33] <pitti> dholbach: so that's `link text <link_target>`_ apparently? but how does "libxml2_" get translated to https://bazaar.launchpad.net/+branch/ubuntu/libxml2/files/head:/debian/tests/ ?
[09:34] <dholbach> mitya57, ^ can you comment?
[09:34] <pitti> dholbach: oooh, nevermind; I see the mapping at the bottom
[09:34] <dholbach> ok cool
[09:34] <dholbach> mitya57, unping
[09:34] <mitya57> :)
[09:36] <pitti> it's a bit confusing as grep doesn't find these
[09:36] <pitti> as in the link it's foo_, and in the mapping _foo
[09:57] <LocutusOfBorg1> RAOF, YOU ROCK MAN! Working!
[09:57] <LocutusOfBorg1> I'll post (if you allow me) the snip of the conversation on the github issue and give you credits in debian/changelog
[10:26] <pitti> dholbach, mitya57 : ok, done: https://code.launchpad.net/~pitti/ubuntu-packaging-guide/autopkgtest-updates/+merge/218265
[10:26] <pitti> after this lands, how does http://packaging.ubuntu.com/html/auto-pkg-test.html get updated from that? from the branch or from the package?
[10:26] <dholbach> pitti, from a daily build of the branch
[10:27] <pitti> dholbach: oh, nice! so, nothing to do there except landing the branch?
[10:27] <RAOF> LocutusOfBorg1: Yeah, that's fine. Go ahead!
[10:27] <dholbach> pitti, yep
[10:34] <pitti> dholbach: wow, thanks for the fast review!
[10:35] <dholbach> no worries :)(
[10:35] <dholbach> :-)
[14:19] <svenx> where are the ftp master indices override files kept, in git/lp somewhere? files like http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/indices/override.trusty.main
[14:24] <bdmurray> pitti: could you have a look at my apport merge proposal?
[15:30] <directhex> hmph, whatever happened to lightdm-set-defaults
[15:33] <tarpman> directhex: I was wondering that too! http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~lightdm-team/lightdm/trunk/revision/1841 apparently, no bug #
[15:37] <cousteau> can the Unity global menu contain widgets such as buttons, text boxes, etc?  Or only dropdown menus?
[15:39] <zyga> cousteau: it cannot, look at the dbus menu spec / wiki page for details
[15:46] <cousteau> so only dropdown menus...  damn, there goes my "awesome browser interface concept"
[15:47] <cousteau> I guess I could still emulate icons through Unicode symbols, though
[15:53] <cousteau> zyga, can't find that spec / wiki page
[15:58] <zyga> cousteau: it's tied to the HUD so you should be able to do more than the basics but that may be under development
[15:59] <zyga> cousteau: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Unity/HUD
[16:02] <cousteau> hm, maybe the global menu can't do what I was thinking of
[16:03] <cousteau> ...maybe if I could make my program to insert its own applet on the top bar, replacing the menu bar...
[16:03] <zyga> cousteau: I don't follow desktop development that much so ask around for better hints
[16:03] <zyga> cousteau: that's not going to work most likely
[16:03] <cousteau> I don't do desktop development at all; I was asking hypothetically
[16:03] <zyga> cousteau: that part is displayed by unity
[16:05] <cousteau> my idea was to develop a web  browser in which the tab/button bar were hidden in the menu bar, so in Unity it would only display the page title until you hover it
[16:06] <cousteau> http://imagebin.org/309176 - this is how it would look (without unity involved; just using its own rendering)
[16:10] <cousteau> can an app draw stuff over the top bar?  because that would be another option
[16:11] <cousteau> figure out where the top bar is, its size, where the area for the menus starts/ends, draw random stuff in that area
[16:11] <cousteau> (and destroy that when out of focus)
[16:14] <dholbach> all right my friends - I'm calling it a day - see you all tomorrow!
[16:22] <arges> infinity: which queue?
[16:22] <arges> @pilot in
[16:24] <arges> infinity: which part specifically did you need help with pending-sru or review queue?
[16:28] <infinity> arges: Yes.
[16:28] <infinity> arges: (I was looking at pending-sru, but if you're doing queue stuff, do that, it's more hassle :P)
[16:28] <infinity> arges: I'm going through pending right now.
[16:28] <arges> infinity: ok i'll keep looking at trusty queue
[17:33] <jamespage> infinity, easymock->hamcrest (integration component relies on easymock only afaict)
[17:42] <mterry> @pilot in
[18:49] <svenx> anyone know where the ftp master indices override files are kept, in git/lp somewhere? files like http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/indices/override.trusty.main
[19:14] <doko> infinity, according to Manoij's changelog you appear to work for gentoo ...
[19:41] <infinity> doko: I do?
[19:42] <infinity> Heh, not quite. ;)
[19:42] <ScottK> That's barry anwya.
[19:42] <ScottK> anyway
[19:43] <barry> whu?
[19:44] <bdmurray> Is it just me or does the ubuntu-emulator use the same mac address?
[19:48] <ScottK> barry: OK, so Gentoo refugee, but almost the same thing.
[20:05] <mterry> @pilot out
[20:52] <infinity> doko: Hrm, we couldn't sync make, though.  It dropped M-A:foreign.
[21:06] <zyga> I wonder if the upcoming amd64+aarch64 on-a-chip boxes will force Debian and Ubuntu to redefine multiach to support executables alongside with existing libraries
[21:12] <arges> @pilot out
[21:14] <mapreri> cjwatson: do you mind uploading debootstrap to sid with the right symlink to utopic when you have a spare minute?
[21:34] <dobey> adb reboot
[21:34] <dobey> nope
[21:35] <dobey> wrong focus, obviously


[00:18] <mhall119> SpamapS: that's up on /Quotes
[00:40] <jcastro> marcoceppi: we're at 81.5% AR.
[00:41] <jcastro> We might want to start thinking of ideas again
[00:41] <jcastro> I've been waiting for a "lull" since release
[00:41] <jcastro> but that's not really happening
[00:41] <marcoceppi> clean up competition again
[00:41] <jcastro> I think concentrating on tag:12.04 first?
[00:41] <jcastro> is it possible to hook up Oli's thing to a specific tag?
[00:42] <marcoceppi> probably
[00:46] <jcastro> off to meta before I xbox
[00:47] <jcastro> marcoceppi: whoops, I am in the wrong channel, offtopic. O_O
[15:39] <SpamapS> mhall119: :-D
[21:21] <JoseeAntonioR> hey guys, I'm having some probs, when bootstrapping it gives me this error: error: Environments configuration error: /home/same/.juju/environments.yaml: environments.sample.default-series: required value not found
[21:38] <hazmat> JoseeAntonioR, add default-series: precise
[21:39] <hazmat> we need to add that to the defalt output.
[21:39] <JoseeAntonioR> hazmat: yep, I did that and solved it, thanks!
[22:47] <imbrandon> man zfs


[01:12] <rick_h_> marcoceppi: when you get time want to chat packaging/use charmhelpers. since it's using distutils no setup.py develop command and it's merged back to setuptools anyway so not sure if there's a reason to keep it distutils.
[01:13] <rick_h_> bah, and doesn't have any install_requires
[01:13] <marcoceppi> rick_h_: I haven't had a chance to look at the project for several weeks. Given emerging requirements to include multiple languages I imagine re-organizing the code base and having one source package build several language specific (including a generic charm-helpers package)
[01:15] <marcoceppi> rick_h_: I'm not sure if just a setup.py will cut it for packaging
[01:15] <rick_h_> marcoceppi: gotcha, well let me know if you get there and want a test/second set of eyes on making it installable easy enough
[01:15] <marcoceppi> rick_h_: I'm open to opinions even before I get there :)
[01:15] <rick_h_> marcoceppi: yea, not sure. I'm more a python packager. I did it once, but I live in pypi land
[01:15] <rick_h_> (did a .deb once)
[01:16] <rick_h_> but trying to get it installed, wanted to try out the 'template a new charm' stuff but the readme isn't helpful atm and wasn't sure how best to install it. Figured I'd pull down the source and install into a virtualenv, but the python package doesn't do deps, etc
[01:16] <marcoceppi> rick_h_: I'll likely create a python-charmhelpers package for just the python specific bits
[01:16] <marcoceppi> rick_h_: oh, haha, that's because you don't install it
[01:16] <rick_h_> https://juju.ubuntu.com/docs/authors-charm-writing.html doesn't use it from what I can tell
[01:16] <marcoceppi> it's just "embedded" in charms ATM
[01:17] <marcoceppi> and by charms, I mean Python charms
[01:17] <rick_h_> marcoceppi: so I thought there was a 'create a new charm from a sample tepmlate' command?
[01:17] <marcoceppi> rick_h_: yeah, `juju charm create <name>`
[01:17] <rick_h_> or is that somewhere else then before you get to the charm/python helpers in there
[01:17] <marcoceppi> but that's only one template
[01:17] <marcoceppi> rick_h_: charm-tools
[01:17] <marcoceppi> that's packaged and should be in saucy/juju stable ppa
[01:17] <rick_h_> marcoceppi: ah, /me didn't realize there was charm-tools and charm-helpers
[01:18] <marcoceppi> rick_h_: but it's only one template, and it's a very light weight bash template
[01:18] <rick_h_> they kind of blurred into one on me
[01:18] <marcoceppi> rick_h_: charm-tools is for stuff outside of charms, charm-helpers is for stuff inside of charms
[01:18] <rick_h_> marcoceppi: ok, well I guess if you wanted me to test out writing a new charm from scratch, where should I be starting to test what we tell everyone to do?
[01:19] <rick_h_> marcoceppi: ok, I'll try to see if I can at least pull some readme updates that make that more clear.
[01:19] <marcoceppi> rick_h_: Follow the docs, though I don't think it has charm-tools syntax in it yet, evilnick should be adding that soon. Basically, what I tell people during charm schools is: "Add ppa:juju/stable, apt-get install charm tools, run juju charm create <name>"
[01:20] <marcoceppi> rick_h_: https://juju.ubuntu.com/docs/tools-charm-tools.html
[01:20] <rick_h_> marcoceppi: yea, that's not in the doc on charm-writing ^^
[01:20] <marcoceppi> rick_h_: right, evilnick has a task to fix that
[01:20] <rick_h_> ok cool
[01:20] <marcoceppi> I can ping you once it's updated if you want to give it a go?
[01:20] <marcoceppi> s/\?//
[01:21] <rick_h_> marcoceppi: ok, we'll see.
[01:22] <rick_h_> marcoceppi: so does charm-helpers have a doc listing the api bits it provides for charm writing?
[01:22] <marcoceppi> rick_h_: not that I know of. It's pretty much read the source.
[01:22] <rick_h_> marcoceppi: ok can do
[01:22] <marcoceppi> rick_h_: we did an intro charm school about it. Part of packaging it will be to document it
[01:23] <marcoceppi> rick_h_: let me know any and all feedback on the process. It's rough right now so outside opinions on the process are so very welcomed1
[01:24] <rick_h_> marcoceppi: yea, will do. It's been a while since I tried to charm up my app so starting over vs updating the old code and will go through the process
[01:25] <marcoceppi> rick_h_: you going to write the charm in Python?
[01:26] <rick_h_> marcoceppi: that's the plan
[01:26] <rick_h_> marcoceppi: for https://github.com/mitechie/bookie
[01:26] <marcoceppi> rick_h_: cool, the code in "core" package of charm-helpers will likely help you the most
[01:27] <marcoceppi> rick_h_: you might also want to watch the charm-helpers charm school, it goes over some of the more commonly used charm-helpers
[01:28] <rick_h_> marcoceppi: k, so charm-tools isn't in the dev ppa? I've got 0.3 from there, but looks like 1.0 is out?
[01:28] <marcoceppi> rick_h_: charm-tools is in ppa:juju/stable (and should be in saucy)
[01:28] <marcoceppi> let me check saucy
[01:29] <marcoceppi> yeah, it's in saucy
[01:29] <rick_h_> marcoceppi: ok, this is a raring desktop I'm running on atm. Haven't updated the desktop, only laptop yet. It's running the juju/devel ppa
[01:29] <marcoceppi> rick_h_: ah, yeah all the tools for juju are in ppa:juju/stable
[01:30] <rick_h_> marcoceppi: ok, looks like I've got bigger fish to fry to get going then.
[01:30] <marcoceppi> rick_h_: it's save to have that and devel ppa on your machine, you'll always get latest juju
[01:30] <marcoceppi> safe*
[01:30] <rick_h_> marcoceppi: ah ok
[01:31] <marcoceppi> Yeah, we're making a commitment to have packages of tools in the charm ecosystem in distro, liek charm-tools, amulet, charm-helpers (eventually), deployer, etc
[01:31] <marcoceppi> charm-tools just never got updated for raring
[01:32] <rick_h_> marcoceppi: yea, understand. My fault.
[01:32] <marcoceppi> np np!
[01:32] <marcoceppi> this will definitely be a better trusty story, but it's good to document this in the charm-authors guide. If you're getting tripped up by it others will
[01:34] <rick_h_> README.ex?
[01:53] <routelastresort> is there a good doc w/current info on what I can change to ppa/settings-wise to get all of the latest fixes on saucy??
[02:39] <rick_h_> marcoceppi: well just did bash since I had bash instructions, but http://ec2-54-205-26-172.compute-1.amazonaws.com:6543/ walks through my make commands ok at least it seems
[06:57] <Preytell> I ask this question in the maas channel but maybe it should be here.
[06:57] <Preytell> Morning all, I have a question about maas. I am attempting to put maas regional controller on a machine that how two nics, and I am deploying to hardware that is on a switch with the second nic on the controller.  But when I boot strap it will get to a point where it attempts to wget the tools and it tries to get them from the first nics address and not the nic that it just pxe booted from... Which of course fails.
[06:57] <Preytell> it really juju that is doing this part.
[06:57] <Preytell> it's
[12:40] <rick_h_> jcsackett: around today?
[15:24] <AskUbuntu> JuJu bootstrap error | http://askubuntu.com/q/367340
[20:03] <zradmin> Azendale: Quantum had to be renamed because of a trademark dispute apparently. I am also working on an HA deployment and Neutron doesn't seem to be registering properly as I can't run any commands against the API


[10:59] <bhante__> is there someone who can help me with golden dictionary?
[10:59] <bhante__> I cannot log into the main ubuntu channel for some reason.. not sure how


[07:05] <popey> GTA5 was £41.79 on Amazon yesterday, now it's £41.59.
[07:05]  * popey refreshes hoping it drops by 20p each time
[07:19] <MooDoo> morning all
[07:37] <mungbean> wow, whats the RRP? 49.99?
[07:38] <mungbean> what's the stats for most of the sales of a game, is it the builk are sold in the first 3months or something?
[07:41] <mungbean> google seem to have changed their ranking in preference for news, since a generic search on games data is mostly blogs and news articles about gta5 on the first 3 pages
[07:41] <popey> I suspect there would be a surge once GTA online is available
[07:41] <popey> will put GTA5 on my Christmas list I think (aka Amazon wishlist)
[07:44] <directhex> mungbean, console games it's a peak then a decline from there. there's not much "long tail" selling for console games
[07:47] <directhex> mungbean, it's actually the first 3 weeks that determine whether a game is a success or a flop, since so few sales happen after then as to be statistically unimportant
[07:47] <mungbean> so high st shops tend to focus on top 20 to maximise sales, hence creating no variety
[07:47] <mungbean> then its self fulfilling
[07:51] <popey> the companies aren't making non-AAA titles though are they?
[07:51] <popey> it's basically now just AAA, Mobile and Indie as 3 main categories?
[07:53] <directhex> well
[07:53] <directhex> remember, AAA is about marketing budget, not game budget
[07:54] <directhex> industry magazines have game adverts, but they're not "this game is good", they're "this game has a £20m multi-media marketing campaign, you are guaranteed easy sales". high street stores have limited shelf space, so buy games they think will sell
[07:55] <popey> https://twitter.com/mikeBithell/status/383499821304532992
[07:55] <popey> so the steamos factor is working on devs
[07:55] <popey> https://twitter.com/icculus/status/383438796882067456 also
[07:55] <directhex> digital distribution has carved out room for B-tier publishers who had struggled to find shelf space
[07:56] <popey> true
[07:56] <directhex> i wouldn't call Paradox "indie", but i wouldn't call them "AAA"
[07:56] <popey> many of the mid-tier have left to mobile though?
[07:56] <popey> as opposed to pc/x/ps3
[07:57] <directhex> paradox. sega. kalypso. focus
[07:57] <popey> http://minecraft.egmont.co.uk/ - xmas present for sam right there
[07:58] <TheOpenSourcerer> Geek/space fest :-D http://dirkloechel.deviantart.com/art/Size-Comparison-Science-Fiction-spaceships-398790051
[07:59] <popey> TheOpenSourcerer: ^^ your kids might like that too
[08:00] <TheOpenSourcerer> Indeed.
[08:13] <mungbean> does anyone know how to block activesync from having permissions to remote wipe a device?
[08:13] <mungbean> does xprivacy do it?
[08:14] <popey> i found something years ago that did it
[08:14] <popey> cant remember the name though
[08:15] <mungbean> at this rate i'm gonna set up a gmail account which access the exchange server via imap rather than allow these permission
[08:15] <mungbean> openpdroid?
[08:50] <JamesTait> Good morning all!  Happy Friday, and happy Ask A Stupid Question Day!  Do I have to leave if I don't have a stupid question?
[08:54] <popey> That'll do.
[08:55] <Laney> pig
[08:55]  * JamesTait rofls
[08:59] <brobostigon> good morning everyone.
[09:00] <JamesTait> brobostigon, o/
[09:01] <brobostigon> morning JamesTait
[09:14] <mungbean> reddit device: http://www.thinkgeek.com/product/1647/?pfm=Search&t=karma%20controller%20diy%20reddit%20interface%20device
[10:12] <davmor2> Morning all
[10:15] <SuperMatt> morning davmor2
[10:15]  * SuperMatt has started the day by raising bug 12311901
[10:16] <SuperMatt> bug 1231901
[10:25] <davmor2> SuperMatt: let the server team know about that on the #ubuntu-server channel sounds like something they should look into asap  me hopes that is the right channel ;)
[10:37] <popey> \o/ http://popey.com/webcam/ cat cam!
[10:38] <davmor2> popey: wow your cat has no face
[10:40] <popey> he is black and has eyes shut
[10:41] <SuperMatt> davmor2: will do :D
[10:44]  * MooDoo makes a mental note to make his ip cam internet viewable
[10:44] <davmor2> popey: it has no face.....well that or the definition on the webcam isn't the best in the world and it just looks that way maybe.....But I'm going for no face!!!
[10:54] <directhex> http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/gameware/james-pond-pond-is-back?ref=live
[11:02] <ali1234> i never liked that game :/
[11:03] <mungbean> savage pond ftw
[11:13] <mungbean> hangon , not even any mock up screenshots?
[11:31] <mungbean> WFH sucks when you cannot get an answer from someone on something urgent
[11:33] <ali1234> world federation of haemophilia?
[11:33] <diddledan> wonderful frontier homocides?
[11:34] <mungbean> working from home
[11:34] <diddledan> aah, I'm usually the one that people can't get the answer from when I work from home :-p
[11:36] <diddledan> I spend much more time on irc when I work from home because I don't worry about appearances - I procrastinate just as much at the office but it looks like I'm still working
[11:38] <mungbean> i apear to have just wee'd on myself
[11:38] <mungbean> thats wfh for you
[11:38] <diddledan> I do that, too. far too often
[11:38] <mungbean> i tend to work harder without breaks when wfh
[11:39] <mungbean> started work 1 hr early and got striaght into it
[11:39] <diddledan> I don't do breaks either way
[11:39] <mungbean> meanwhile my colleagues will probably think i'm dossing
[11:44] <mungbean> that cory doctorow churns out books pretty fast
[11:45] <mungbean> i think calling it young adult fiction means you can write it in one sitting
[11:50] <Myrtti> mungbean: WFH sucks when you have to pick from the bazillion communication methods what to use to ask someone something urgent
[11:59] <diddledan> mungbean: young adult sounds like it's right up my street - I can't do hardcore reading :-p
[12:00] <diddledan> thankyou camelot - tonights eurosquillions is 55 bajillion£
[12:00] <diddledan> grab my ticket now? don't have time for that!
[12:01] <popey> mungbean: he uses ubuntu doncha know
[12:05] <mungbean> popey: yep i think i read some stuff he wrote in the guardian or BB about it
[12:06] <mungbean> a lot of his books are so samey i feel like i'm reading the same one again
[12:06] <diddledan> mungbean: that's tweenfic for ya I guess
[12:06] <diddledan> it's all twiglet
[12:09] <mungbean> how do i change a user's primary group in openldap?
[12:11] <diddledan> heh @ my email to my colleagues: "yes, you too can taste the really hott! screaming salami release of Ubuntu before it goes live. Final Customer Experience Preview Developer Release Candidate 1.2 has been released by Canoncrosoft." *attach email: Ubuntu 13.10 (Saucy Salamander) Final Beta Released; from<EMAIL_ADDRESS>to ubuntu-announce list*
[12:12] <Laney> O_O
[12:12] <diddledan> :-p
[12:12] <Laney> screaming salami is nice
[12:12] <Laney> slobbering would have been better
[12:12] <diddledan> it makes your eyes do that
[12:12] <diddledan> aaha, yeah slobbering woulda been good
[12:13] <diddledan> I'm guessing T will be twerking tween?
[12:13] <diddledan> should I know what twerking actually is before I use it in a sentence?!
[12:15] <diddledan> thankyou wikipedia
[12:16] <diddledan> and bonus points for including the picture of miley cyrus doing a twerk on robin thicke
[12:16]  * popey looks for unicode twerk and fails
[12:20] <diddledan> speaking of Miley Cyrus - she used to be such a nice girl.. I don't get why she's gone so completely mental
[12:21] <diddledan> (and as a person afflicted with psychiatric illness, I use the word "mental" advisedly :-p)
[12:23]  * Laney pulls diddledan from asda's shelves
[12:27] <DJones> diddledan: She's been listening to her dad's Achy, Breaky Heart song too much, that'd probably do it
[12:51] <directhex> huh. is it a scoop to get confirmation from audiokinetic that Wwise is being ported to linux (steamos)?
[12:51] <directhex> popey? or anyone who is part of one of the endless parade of ubuntu/gaming blogs?
[12:52] <popey> I'd not heard of it before you mentioned it
[12:53] <popey> saw your RT though, nice!
[12:53] <popey> do you know how many games use it?
[12:55] <directhex> popey, a few hundred
[12:56] <directhex> popey, mostly big-name games like bioshock or assassin's creed
[12:56] <directhex> popey, perhaps of most relevance... limbo. wwise is the "sorry, wine only because middleware is nonportable" middleware
[12:58] <Myrtti> ooh assassin's creed
[13:01] <popey> golly
[13:11] <mungbean> ok...screaming baby not good for stress levels when trying to hack ldap
[13:14]  * AlanBell stays away from LDAP
[13:14] <AlanBell> and babies ;)
[13:15] <diddledan> ouch, ldap is evil
[13:15] <diddledan> screaming babies notwithstanding
[13:15] <MooDoo> you get used to screaming babeis
[13:16] <mungbean> finally took the dressing off my tattoo
[13:16] <mungbean> healed up pretty nice
[13:17] <mungbean> http://i.imgur.com/MXoCnOf.jpg
[13:18] <diddledan> I'm assuming it's supposed to be spelled incorrectly
[13:18] <mungbean> i think the geek version should say no regexp
[13:18] <mungbean> its spelt incorrectly? where? OH NO!!
[13:18] <AlanBell> ;)
[13:18] <mungbean> i would never get a tattoo :D
[13:18] <popey> https://s3.amazonaws.com/pfuploads/tumblr_mlm7q5xxfU1qdnibfo1_500.jpg
[13:19] <mungbean> the best ones are when they get a football manager's face
[13:19] <popey> https://twitter.com/shittats is quite fun
[13:20] <mungbean> tattoos are no joke. it stresses me out even to see such hideous blemishes on other people
[13:21] <popey> pfft
[13:22] <mungbean> isn't that the forkbomb? http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2422/4033340711_543ef81df0_b.jpg
[13:22] <diddledan> mungbean: yes
[13:23] <diddledan> you don't need the ampersand for it to be effective though
[13:23] <diddledan> :(){:|:};: works just as nicely
[13:24] <diddledan> !danger
[13:24] <diddledan> is it fair to get the bot to moan about yourself?
[13:25] <Myrtti> yes.
[13:25] <Seeker`>  /abk diddledan
[13:25] <Seeker`> :P
[13:25] <diddledan> Seeker`: /abk?
[13:26] <diddledan> something bankick?
[13:27] <diddledan> thankfully that forkbomb is obscure enough that n00bs don't realise it is bash syntax
[13:28] <diddledan> (that's a good thing becuase they then don't try running it out of curiosity)
[13:28] <Seeker`> diddledan: autobankick
[13:33] <Monotoko> is there anywhere on freenode that I can get help with SIP? >.>
[13:34] <AlanBell> Monotoko: depends on the software, I am doing stuff with #opensips at the moment
[13:34] <AlanBell> Monotoko: what is the question?
[13:35] <directhex> Monotoko, "firewalling issue". next!
[13:38] <diddledan> I agree with directhex
[13:39] <diddledan> with SIP absolutely every question no matter how esoteric and seemingly separate boils down to the firewall
[13:39] <directhex> or some facet of it
[13:39] <directhex> e.g. "MTU is wrong size!" "NAT is the wrong colour", etc
[13:40] <diddledan> I never did get the colourising of NAT
[13:40] <directhex> "slight kernel jitter"
[13:40] <directhex> "too much IO load"
[13:40] <directhex> sip is basically awful
[13:41] <diddledan> unfortunately it's about the only "open" telephony protocol that also has hooks into POTS
[13:51] <Monotoko> AlanBell: I'm trying to get a server to use pjsua to call my SIP number which should in turn go to my mobile
[13:51] <Monotoko> it has no firewall
[13:51] <Monotoko> but it just seems to... hang
[13:52] <Monotoko> and so much stuff comes through that I have no idea what's making it hang
[13:53] <Monotoko> http://pastebin.com/sz7ce15v
[13:55] <Monotoko><EMAIL_ADDRESS>has a forwarding to my mobile which it should be following, but nothing is appearing on that ones call log anyway...
[13:58] <SuperMatt> davmor2: thanks for pointing me at ubuntu-server for that bug, it's been marked as high and being triaged now
[13:58] <davmor2> SuperMatt: you are welcome, I figured they would be the ones that would need to deal with it :)
[14:00] <davmor2> SuperMatt: if you know who to ping when you have written a bug that is important in general, rather than specific to you, it's worth pinging the team because it means they see it, on the whole if 100 bugs hit you a day it just becomes a blur
[14:04] <SuperMatt> yarr
[14:05] <SuperMatt> I would really love to start looking in to fixing bugs
[14:06] <SuperMatt> I just don't think I have the time
[14:39] <diddledan> religious quote of the day: "God said unto Moses: 'come forth'; but he came fifth and won a toaster"
[14:41]  * Monotoko murders nagios in cold blood
[14:41] <bigcalm> Hello peeps from Shropgeek Revolution :)
[14:42] <diddledan> \o/
[14:42] <diddledan> and \o/
[14:43] <diddledan> nagios *stab stab*
[14:43] <diddledan> and shropgeek ftw
[14:43] <mungbean> all active fail2ban rules should show in iptables -vnL right?
[14:44] <diddledan> mungbean: yes I believe so
[14:44] <mungbean> users are reportign that if they get password wrong once they are blocked out
[14:44] <mungbean> wonder if its a client problem..using mobaxterm
[14:45]  * bigcalm senses popey is not a happy bunny
[14:45] <diddledan> sounds like their client is prompting for a password and then blindly resending it without prompting at every request even though it's been denied
[14:45] <mungbean> gonna have to reboot to windows to try @(
[14:45] <popey> bah
[14:46] <diddledan> reboot? to windows?! EVIL!!!!!!!1!
[14:46] <diddledan> !danger > mungbean
[14:46] <diddledan> bah
[14:46] <diddledan> !danger | mungbean
[14:47] <diddledan> annoying that there's no standard among bot makers
[14:47] <diddledan> the #wordpress bot responds on .commands instead of !commands and uses > as the redirector instead of |
[14:48] <diddledan> I think there should be one bot to rule them all
[14:48] <diddledan> same bot in here as is in every other channel everywhere
[14:48] <diddledan> mmm, yea
[14:48] <diddledan> tea**
[14:48] <diddledan> alan_g|tea: email me some :-p
[14:48] <mungbean> i run supybot, i think lubotu3 is descended from him
[14:49] <diddledan> aah python
[14:49] <diddledan> why is python so popular?!
[14:49] <diddledan> it seems to have become the new Perl
[14:50] <diddledan> although nodejs is trying to become the new python aka the new new perl
[15:11] <mungbean> yes it was fail2bna
[16:58] <diddledan> why does the euromeelions have to have a rollmeover on payday?!
[16:59] <popey> oooh
[16:59] <popey> http://store.steampowered.com/livingroom/
[17:00] <popey> http://store.steampowered.com/livingroom/SteamController/
[17:00] <popey> woah
[17:01] <davmor2> popey: okay take a chill pill it's only an advert ;)
[17:04] <arc__> hello
[17:04] <popey> hello
[17:09] <arc__> will they keep making ubuntu for the ppc
[17:10] <DJones> !ppc | arc__
[17:11] <arc__> cool ok
[17:20] <diddledan> I don't get why manufacturers moved away from ppc - I guess it's part of ongoing unification of hardware architecture onto x86 which I'm assuming will eventually make way to unification onto ARM
[17:22] <arc__> The only ppc i have is a Mac G5
[17:42] <directhex> diddledan, ppc was dropped by apple because it couldn't compete on price/heat/power/performance with intel - specifically, no way to put a G5 in a laptop without it having thermal issues
[17:42] <diddledan> I see
[17:42] <directhex> and in the general case, ppc is expensive. ibm still put them in top end servers tho
[17:43] <directhex> nintendo still use ppc for wiiu
 ok, WAT @ steam pad
[17:47] <ali1234> ....... that gamepad looks lame
[17:50] <ali1234> then again i said the same thing about the n64 pad
[18:17] <Azelphur> Has anyone noticed that SFTP uploading is /ridiculously slow/ when using thunar or something?
[18:18] <Azelphur> he says, just as his upload speed jumps from 900bytes/sec to 180KB/sec.
[18:19] <davmor2> Azelphur: It's quite quick for me in nautilus
[18:20] <Azelphur> weird, I stopped using nautilus since they changed the typing search method in 13.10
[18:20] <Azelphur> the new thing sucks.
[18:30] <diddledan> why do I drool over apple products?!
[18:30] <bigcalm> diddledan: do you have a wooly coat and bleat a lot?
[18:31] <diddledan> bigcalm: as in am I a wolf?
[18:31] <bigcalm> More of a sheep :P
[18:31] <diddledan> lol
[18:31] <bigcalm> Apple do good design, which could be why you want it
[18:32] <diddledan> I'm reminded of lee mack's humorous bit about advertising for a pie
[18:32] <diddledan> "it's hot and crusty, and I want it"
[18:32] <bigcalm> Hehe
[18:33] <diddledan> in the style of a fragrance advert :-p
[18:33] <diddledan> speaking of which, how terrible are fragrance adverts?!
[18:33] <bigcalm> They are silly and meaningless
[18:34] <diddledan> "but I want it"
[18:35] <diddledan> the rumourmill is going overdrive on nexus5-related stories
[18:38] <bigcalm> I want a Nexus 6 ;)
[18:38] <diddledan> is that the galaxy note lookalite?
[18:38] <diddledan> lookalike
[18:38] <diddledan> i.e. a phone that's the size of your foot
[18:38] <bigcalm> No, it's a Bladerunner reference
[18:39] <diddledan> aaah
[18:39] <diddledan> I missed it
[18:40] <diddledan> apparently, iirc, the copyright owner of the blade runner franchise (I don't remember who anymore) tried to sue google over use of the word nexus in relation to android
[18:40] <bigcalm> Yes
[18:41] <diddledan> aah, phew, I was worried I was making it up as I went along :-p
[18:41] <bigcalm> That's a rather specific thing to make up
[18:41] <diddledan> it's been known
[18:42] <davmor2> diddledan: surely a shoe is better for your foot than a phone
[18:42] <diddledan> davmor2: tell that to samsung
[18:42] <diddledan> they might have used gorillaglass which will help with cracking
[19:05] <diddledan> agents of s.h.i.e.l.d. on ch4 right now
[19:07] <ali1234> Azelphur: thunar uses gvfs now, so it should be exactly the same speed
[19:07] <Azelphur> fun
[19:07] <ali1234> that might be new in saucy, i don't know
[19:07] <ali1234> thunar-vfs was killed with pitchforks
[19:10] <ali1234> "Fri, Sep 27, 09:00 PM to 10:00 PM (70 mins)" - oh, mythtv
[19:11] <Azelphur> maybe mythtv was written on an alien planet where they have 70 minute hours.
[19:11] <Azelphur> :P
[19:12] <ali1234> btw, xfce is getting gtk3 indicator support
[19:12] <ali1234> i'm using it right now :)
[19:12] <ali1234> finally working volume controls
[19:13] <Azelphur> nice
[19:13] <diddledan> wtf
[19:13] <diddledan> how does mythtv bend the space time continuum?!
[19:14] <ali1234> i dunno but it better not cut the end off
[19:14] <diddledan> lol
[19:14] <diddledan> it inevitably will
[19:15] <ali1234> ooo cheap servos on rapid...
[19:27] <bigcalm> Might be a little late for this, but which is a good hotel to book for oggcamp? :)
[19:28] <bigcalm> Still haven't decided if I can really go or not
[19:28] <dutchie> does anybody want steam keys for awesomenauts?
[19:28] <dutchie> soundtrack too
[19:29] <bigcalm> I haven't got around to playing the copy I already have on steam ;)
[19:32] <daubers> dutchie: How do you have so many?
[19:33] <dutchie> daubers: i only have one! nobody wants it :(
[19:33] <dutchie> and that came from the kickstarter
[19:33] <daubers> heh :)
[19:58] <sketch_> can anyone help me get this .sh file to run?
[19:59] <ali1234> maybe.
[20:01] <sketch_> ok cool i've tried to make it executable in properties and the check wont stay
[20:03] <mungbean> special episode of IT crowd on now
[20:18] <sketch_> ok i need someone with teamviewer to take a look please
[20:20] <popey> sketch_: i have teamviewer
[20:21] <popey> happy to take a look
[20:25] <sketch_> ok cool
[20:42] <diddledan> lmao @ the IT crowd
[20:44] <popey> no spoilers! :D
[20:48] <diddledan> I just saw an advert for wuaki.tv
[20:48] <diddledan> I only discovered they existed this week
[22:41] <geoffrey> coldsoda


[05:29] <jibel> good morning
[06:11] <didrocks> good morning
[07:00] <oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
[07:18] <seb128> gooood morning desktopers
[07:19] <oSoMoN> salut seb128
[07:19] <seb128> lut oSoMoN :)
[07:22] <seb128> oSoMoN, so, beta freeze starting ... I was wondering if we wanted to try to get the new tb on the iso/demote enigma to universe? depends how much testing you would like to get from the update
[07:24] <oSoMoN> seb128, it looks like enigmail is already in universe
[07:25] <seb128> oSoMoN, sorry, I'm online getting my coffee :-/ I meant to proposed
[07:25] <seb128> e.g delete if from eoan proper
[07:25] <seb128> since britney will block the tb update as long as it breaks something in eoan
[07:27] <oSoMoN> unless we add a hint to temporarily unblock the migration, no?
[07:28] <seb128> well, does enigmail work with the new tb?
[07:28] <oSoMoN> note that I'm working on enigmail today, hopefully I get a working solution before eod that we can use until the package is updated in debian
[07:28] <seb128> like is that a real breakage or a test problem ?
[07:28] <oSoMoN> right, it's actually a real breakage
[07:29] <seb128> so it would probably less misleading to remove it than force tb and have a package installable that blews
[07:29] <seb128> anyway, let's see what you get by tonight
[07:29] <seb128> and decide tomorrow if that's  ok with you?
[07:31] <oSoMoN> sounds like a plan
[07:35] <seb128> :-)
[07:56] <seb128> Trevinho, hey, did you prepare that unity landing? they wanted/needed the fix for beta and the freeze started now...
[08:01] <marcustomlinson> morning all
[08:01] <willcooke> morning
[08:02] <didrocks> hey marcustomlinson, willcooke
[08:02] <Laney> morning!
[08:04] <didrocks> morning Laney
[08:08] <Laney> hey didrocks
[08:08] <Laney> good weekend / trip back?
[08:11] <didrocks> Laney: yeah, uneventful. Yourself? After this week-end in Paris? :)
[08:12] <Laney> delays
[08:12] <Laney> had to take a much later train home
[08:12] <didrocks> still on the same day at least?
[08:13] <Laney> technically no
[08:13] <Laney> but yes :P
[08:13] <didrocks> ahah, ok, very late then :) but still "okish"
[08:13] <Laney> not as bad as the Lyon delays indeed
[08:15] <didrocks> heh
[08:29] <Trevinho> seb128: hey yes... but vvileto failed so need to do some manual things
[08:29] <Trevinho> morning all
[08:29] <Trevinho> from the last day in Paris, helping me to go home... With the classic strike 😭
[08:31] <seb128> Trevinho, hey, oh ok. Good luck with the public transports :/
[08:32] <seb128> hey marcustomlinson willcooke Laney, how are you?
[08:32] <didrocks> yeah, not the best day for Trevinho
[08:34] <willcooke> very wet seb128 :)
[08:35] <willcooke> I've now got 9 out of 10 wallpapers, so I'm going to call it done
[08:35] <marcustomlinson> seb128: haha, yeah, there are clouds in the sky again, balance has been restored :D
[08:35] <marcustomlinson> seb128: i.e. all good :) how are you?
[08:36] <Trevinho> didrocks: I was thinking that they were striking only on Friday... But, it looks like they really care about the cause, not just the day off
[08:43] <didrocks> not having zsys installed but the generator (which will still be needed in the future) -> FAIL. Will spent some days to debug
[08:49] <Laney> hey seb128
[08:49] <Laney> doing gooood, you?
[08:55] <willcooke> Laney, squoosh is pretty amazing at compressing jpegs!  40 MB PNG -> Gimp -> PNG with some better options -> 8 MB PNG
[08:55] <Laney> nice
[08:55] <willcooke> 40 MB PNG -> Gimp -> JPG  -> 1.1 MB PNG
[08:55] <willcooke> *1.1MB JPEG
[08:55] <willcooke> 8 MB PNG -> Sqoosh -> 28
[08:55] <willcooke> *287kB JPG
[08:56] <willcooke> !!!
[08:56] <Laney> nice, I like the sound of that
[08:56] <Laney> assuming the result is good
[08:56] <Laney> ;-)
[08:56] <willcooke> :)
[08:56] <willcooke> So far, so good
[09:05] <jibel> I'm testing netboot for the beta and the session freezes on login on i386.
[09:05] <jibel> here is the journal https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/tGwVbBYq5J/
[09:05] <jibel> anyone have any clue what could be going on?
[09:06] <jibel> there is no crash
[09:08] <jibel> ah now it crashed
[09:13] <jibel> bug 1845165, not very helpful
[09:14] <jibel> is ubutnu-desktop on i386 from netboot still something we want to offer or we should just remove the test case?
[09:24] <Laney> not actually sure at this point in time but I'd be ok with not
[09:24] <Laney> based on the wider i386 story
[09:26] <willcooke> yeah, I think I'd be ok with that too.  From what I remember, we had the story about "if you still want to install on i386 hardware you can use netboot" but it got nacked and removed from the "formal" Q&A.
[09:26] <willcooke> I dont think it's something we should support at this point forward
[10:26] <Wimpress> Morning desktoppers o/
[10:26] <Wimpress> Swap day.
[10:26] <Wimpress> Or rather, an Ubuntu MATE day :-D
[10:32] <Trevinho> apparently not too bad the strike, looks like I'll be to the airport way earlier (and no lounge)... So #floorhacking.
[10:33] <willcooke> Trevinho, are you aware of a problem where you log in and GNOME Shell just doesn't respond to any input?
[10:33] <willcooke> I've seen it a few times in the past week
[10:33] <willcooke> feels like a race, because it doesn't always happen
[10:34] <Trevinho> willcooke: hmmh... nope. Is that something temporary or staying?
[10:35] <Trevinho> I have it on my bionic machine but that's something caused by sync stuff not done properly, and fixed now
[10:36] <willcooke> Trevinho, I doesn't happen every time, but I'll see if I can find a way to reproduce it.  At the moment it is in this state.  I switched to tty1 and gdm started, then back to 2 and GNOME Shell is still on the screen and the mouse moves, but nothing responds (no kbd, no mouse) and I can open a new cli session on tty 3
[10:36] <willcooke> anything I can do before I reboot it?
[10:36] <willcooke> (or restart gdm)
[10:36] <Trevinho> willcooke: yes, attach to it via gdb...
[10:37]  * willcooke installs ssh
[10:37] <Trevinho> willcooke: sudo gdb -p `pidof gnome-shell` but check is the one launched by the user
[10:38] <Trevinho> the pid I mean
[10:38] <Trevinho> willcooke: also mutter and shell debug symbols please
[10:38] <willcooke> Trevinho, I should install those dbg packages right?
[10:39] <willcooke> I dont yet have the debug packages installed, but I do have gdb connected, anything useful I can do with out the debug packages?
[10:40] <Trevinho> willcooke: yes, add ddeb repo and install libmutter dbgsym and gnome-shell
[10:40] <Trevinho> willcooke: well for now you can just try with `call (void) gjs_dumpstack()`
[10:41] <Trevinho> and check journalctl /usr/bin/gnome-shell -b0 -e to see if you get anything useful from JS side of things
[10:41] <Trevinho> however I suppose isn't something triggered by JS, but we never know
[10:43] <willcooke> Trevinho, https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/CWtV8N9RZR/
[10:43] <Trevinho> willcooke: this should automatize it
[10:43] <Trevinho> sudo gdb -p $(pgrep -U $USER -x gnome-shell) -batch   -ex "set logging on"  -ex "bt full" -ex "call (void) gjs_dumpstack()"   -ex quit
[10:43] <Trevinho> ah goof
[10:43] <Trevinho> d*
[10:43] <Trevinho> mh, yeah.. nothing from JS lands
[10:44] <willcooke> Trevinho, so if I install the ddebs do I need to restart?
[10:45] <Trevinho> willcooke: no, just quit gdb and start again it
[10:45] <Trevinho> (or use that script, and attach the produced gdb.txt)
[10:47] <willcooke> dbg packages installer
[10:47] <willcooke> *installed
[10:50] <willcooke> Trevinho, https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/ZnY4YnRBWY/
[10:50] <willcooke> nothing new in journal it seems
[10:51] <willcooke> full journal: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/tdKDGRcPzM/
[10:53] <willcooke> I wonder if the portals has anything to do with it... only because when it did this last time I somehow managed to get a polkit dialog up, and when I entered the password, everything continued as normal
[10:55] <Trevinho> willcooke: mh, can't see much from that thread, try with "thread apply all bt full"
[10:55] <Trevinho> willcooke: it also misses glib dbgsym, but it seems just the loop
[10:55] <Trevinho> well, actually better if you install them too :P
[10:56] <willcooke> libglib2.0-0-dbgsym this one?
[10:56] <Trevinho> willcooke: you can get that scripted by replacing the "bt full" with the command I gave you before
[10:56] <Trevinho> willcooke: yeah
[10:57] <willcooke> Trevinho, https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/rPY2VDj6tX/
[11:03] <willcooke> Laney, smol wallpapers! https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-wallpapers/+bug/1845188
[11:03] <willcooke> 5.6MB this time
[11:03] <willcooke> in total
[11:03] <Laney> nice one
[11:03] <Laney> thx
[11:03] <willcooke> (but there is one missing still)
[11:03] <Trevinho> willcooke: there's something related to __pthread_cond_wait in i965_dri, so maybe add those symbols too and we could get something from tjaalton, might be a dead-lock in the driver? But there's something also in mozjs... mhmhm
[11:04] <willcooke> tjaalton, can you tell me what packages I need to install for dbg symbols?
[11:05] <willcooke> FWIW the mouse pointer still moves around the screen and gets painted correcty
[11:05] <Trevinho> willcooke: I need libmozjs-60-0-dbgsym
[11:06] <Laney> I had this with a Shell dialog last week: https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gnome-shell/issues/1607
[11:06] <Laney> might be relevant
[11:06] <Trevinho> willcooke: dri package would be libgl1-mesa-dri-dbgsym
[11:06] <Trevinho> let's get the bt full with these all, once you get it you can kill it and open a bug with all the logs we have
[11:07] <willcooke> roger roger
[11:07] <willcooke> Laney, interesting, can confirm the clock is updating here too, which I hadnt noticed
[11:07] <Trevinho> although from a first look it might come from anywhere, and since we can't see where a trhead was started is a bit complicated
[11:08] <Trevinho> unless is there a way for that.... (Laney^) :o
[11:08] <willcooke> Trevinho, I'm running from the x staging ppa per t_jaalton's request for testing.
[11:08] <Trevinho> willcooke: ooohhh... mh, is there a dbg package there? maybe you've to get it manually
[11:08] <Trevinho> the name should be the same
[11:08] <willcooke> seems like its missing
[11:09]  * Trevinho cries
[11:09]  * Trevinho cries in 0x00007fef2461c5cb
[11:09] <willcooke> XD
[11:09] <willcooke> Trevinho, is this any use?  https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/BZdK6TcgpW/
[11:11] <Trevinho> willcooke: wait isn't https://launchpad.net/~canonical-x/+archive/ubuntu/x-staging/+files/libgl1-mesa-dri-dbgsym_19.2.0~rc4-1ubuntu1~ppa1_amd64.ddeb the one we're looking for?
[11:11] <Trevinho> looking into details of https://launchpad.net/~canonical-x/+archive/ubuntu/x-staging/+packages there are dbgsym's
[11:11] <Trevinho> so might need to manually install them
[11:11] <willcooke> ahhhhhhhhhhhh
[11:12] <popeycore> :( another lockup on 19.10
[11:12] <willcooke> popeycore, do me a favour - can you leave it 5 mins and see if the clock keeps up
[11:13] <popeycore> i had to reboot, sorry
[11:13] <willcooke> next time
[11:13] <Trevinho> niceeee..... :|
[11:13] <Trevinho> looks like it's something in the gfx stack though
[11:13] <popeycore> interestingly when i tried to reboot, i got messages in dmesg about hung process on my gpu
[11:14] <Trevinho> popeycore: oh!
[11:14] <willcooke> Trevinho, I think I installed that package correctly.. https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/pSshP8V2SZ/
[11:14] <Trevinho> popeycore: journalctl -b-1 once you rebooted
[11:17]  * Trevinho fighting with tunnels...
[11:17] <popey> Trevinho: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-shell/+bug/1845017
[11:17] <popey> attached to the bottom of that
[11:18] <popey> Sep 24 12:00:09 KinkPad-K450 kernel: INFO: task kcompactd0:43 blocked for more than 120 seconds.
[11:27] <tjaalton> willcooke: I don't see i965_dri.so in the latest one?
[11:28] <willcooke> curious
[11:33] <willcooke> Trevinho, is there anything more I can do with it in this state, or shall I reboot and focus on finding a way to reproduce it?
[11:42] <Trevinho> willcooke: mhmh I think we can't do much a part than studying the trace
[11:43] <willcooke> Trevinho, oki.  I've opened this: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-shell/+bug/1845198   and I will try and find a way to recreate it
[11:43] <Trevinho> tjaalton: yeah weird... Maybe that thread died or something?
[11:43] <Trevinho> willcooke: try again just to see if we get the dri log again
[11:43] <willcooke> Trevinho, sorry, I just turned it off :(
[11:44] <popey> willcooke: you having similar issues to me? Or is this completely unrelated?
[11:44] <willcooke> popey, unclear
[11:44] <popey> ok
[11:44] <willcooke> hence my question about the clock
[11:44] <popey> how are you monitoring the clock? just ssh in and run "watch -d date"?
[11:44] <willcooke> no just looking at the screen
[11:45] <popey> oh
[11:45] <willcooke> i.e. gnome shell is not quite dead
[11:45] <popey> nothing updates for me, hard lockup of the shell
[11:45] <popey> I mean, I didnt look at the clock, but pretty sure, will check next time
[11:47] <willcooke> popey, was it related to building snaps again this time?
[11:47] <popey> nope. just happened randomly, when I opened a tab in firefox
[11:48] <willcooke> oki.
[11:48] <seb128> Laney, could you try if you also get "login with another user fail" and tell me what component you would report that problem against?
[11:48] <Laney> I'm looking at fast user switching now
[11:48] <Laney> you already told me about that one
[11:48] <Laney> gdm
[11:48]  * willcooke ponders gnome-keyring... unlocking... polkit windows
[11:49] <popey> also, I have 3 screens on, and video playing in chrome
[11:49] <popey> that's quite a common setup when I get a lockup
[11:49] <seb128> Laney, yeah I told you, I would still welcome someone else to confirm if they get it too or if something weird here, but not important
[11:49] <Laney> it does happen here I'm looking at it atm
[11:49] <Laney> feel free to file a bug if you want a number to track or something
[11:50] <seb128> ah ok, sorry I didn't understood properly that you "fast user switching" was referring to that
[11:50] <seb128> your*
[11:50] <Laney> that might be a term from windows
[11:51] <seb128> anyway, I let you work on it then, thanks :)
[11:51] <Laney> no, I remember, we used to have a thing called FUSA, that's why I call it fast user switching
[11:52] <seb128> ah, makes sense now that you mention it
[12:06] <Trevinho> willcooke:  can you attach both your logs (the one with dri and the last one) to https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-shell/+bug/1845017
[12:06] <Trevinho> I'm quite sure we're talking of the same issue
[12:10] <willcooke> Trevinho, done
[12:15] <jibel> seb128, I've the ubiquity-dm error again with beta
[12:15] <seb128> jibel, I'm not surprised, I didn't see a reason it would have been fixed in between the images
[12:16] <seb128> it's probably a timing issue :/
[12:17] <jibel> and the shell is frozen but I can switch to a vt
[12:17] <seb128> jibel, thx, I will download the daily ISO and see if I get it as well ... you let boot on the screen with the try/install gtk UI and click install right?
[12:17] <jibel> seb128, just boot and do nothing
[12:17] <jibel> I'll try on hw
[12:18] <seb128> k
[12:18] <jibel> seb128, it's the try/install session that crashes
[12:19] <popey> I had 19.10 crash in vbox today on first boot of the "try" option too
[12:20] <popey> from today's daily
[12:20] <popey> https://i.imgur.com/MKrwu54.png
[12:21] <jibel> yeah same that's bug 1844509
[12:21] <jibel> 2 critical for the beta then
[12:21] <GunnarHj> I have also noticed issues with the installer, and can't help wondering if I have contributed to it via this upload:
[12:22] <GunnarHj> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/localechooser/2.71ubuntu4
[12:22] <jibel> GunnarHj, what kind of issues?
[12:23] <GunnarHj> jibel: The Ubiquity welcome screen does not show up, but instead I see the error message which popey just showed in a screenshot.
[12:24] <popey> Further, clicking OK got me an unusable desktop
[12:24] <popey> locked up, or was for some other reason unresponsive
[12:24] <jibel> GunnarHj, I don't think it's related to your upload, I noticed this problem a day before;
[12:25] <jibel> popey, that's bug 1845198
[12:25] <GunnarHj> jibel: Ok, that's a relief for me, kind of. :)
[12:26] <seb128> GunnarHj, I wonder if you did create the issue still, the report from jibel had ibus error and it started a bit after the recent merge from experimental
[12:27] <GunnarHj> seb128: What I did was trying to make a new language visible in the installer. Do you know if there is more into it which I missed, and which may be the reason?
[12:28] <jibel> sounds more like a timing issue as seb128 said, because if you restart ubiquity-dm from a vt it starts fine
[12:28] <seb128> GunnarHj, in case that was not clear from why I wrote before, I wonder if the issue is due to the new ibus
[12:28] <GunnarHj> seb128: Sorry. Now I see what you wrote. :)
[12:28] <kenvandine> I'm so happy with the theme updates, looks great
[12:28] <willcooke> seb128, this "locking up" of GNOME Shell are you talking about there? ^  I did see some stuff in the logs related to ibus
[12:29] <seb128> willcooke, well, I was talking about the liveCD failing to load the ubiquity-try screen, could be the same bug that the lock though
[12:29] <jibel> willcooke, yeah 2 bugs lock up and the "try/install" session doesn't start
[12:29] <willcooke> interesting
[12:30] <seb128> or one bug and it doesn't load because it lock up?
[12:31] <jibel> it wouldn't be a real milestone without critical bugs :)
[12:32] <seb128> that's job security!
[12:33] <GunnarHj> The very latest ibus change is the reversal of the CVE patch which breaks Qt. It happened yesterday night.
[12:34] <seb128> GunnarHj, that bug was there a week ago before the reversal
[12:36] <GunnarHj> seb128: The patch was added about a week ago, and dropped yesterday.
[12:36] <seb128> GunnarHj, yes, I was saying that the issue was happening after the patch was added and is still happening today, so it's not due to this patch
[12:37] <GunnarHj> seb128: Ah, so the newest version is already in the ISO then?
[12:38] <seb128> jibel, did you try current or pending?
[12:39] <seb128> GunnarHj, it's on the newest image according to http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/proposed/eoan-desktop-amd64.manifest
[12:39] <jibel> seb128, pending. It's today's build that I didn't promote due to this problem
[12:39] <seb128> GunnarHj, sorry, http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/proposed/eoan-desktop-amd64.manifest
[12:39] <seb128> jibel, k, thx
[12:40] <seb128> GunnarHj, so yeah, was tested with 1~exp2ubuntu2
[12:40] <GunnarHj> k
[12:40] <seb128> well I'm guessing ibus issue but it might not be due to it and just gnome-shell
[12:40] <seb128> poor Trevinho
[12:43]  * Trevinho hides
[12:45]  * Trevinho actually goes boarding
[12:45] <seb128> Trevinho, safe flight!
[12:46] <Trevinho> thanks, I've plenty of branches to work on in between, so... lovely fliiight indeed
[12:48] <didrocks> the sound volume bug, the sound volume bug, the… :)
[12:49] <seb128> key repeat one?
[12:51] <didrocks> yep
[12:51] <didrocks> good memory ;)
[12:52] <kenvandine> I've rebuilt gtk-common-themes in candidate to include the latest yaru changes.  I'd appreciate it everyone could help kick the tires a little today
[12:53] <kenvandine> just run some snaps to make sure they look like you'd expect
[12:53] <seb128> just install them in a normal session and make sure they work with yaru normal?
[12:53] <Trevinho> ... and boarded. What would be life without euro-roaming!?!
[12:53] <Trevinho> L_aney I feel you :°
[12:53] <seb128> lol
[12:55] <clobrano> kenvandine, I have to rebuild my 18.04 VM, but I should be able to test it this afternoon
[12:56] <kenvandine> seb128: yeah
[12:56] <seb128> k
[12:56] <kenvandine> i'll do some thorough testing with gtk-3-widget-factory
[12:56] <kenvandine> but good to get some other eyes on our everyday snaps
[12:57] <seb128> right
[12:57] <popey> that should be something chris wayne could help with?
[12:57] <didrocks> removing zsys has a lot of repercution on the dataset (due to issues with non empty dir) :/
[13:05] <seb128> didrocks, enough that you think we need to revisit our options?
[13:05] <seb128> willcooke, ^
[13:05] <didrocks> seb128: I don't know, we are back at the race on boot now with the dataset layout that only zsys can fix properly
[13:05] <didrocks> we can workaround, but it's not going to be robust
[13:06] <didrocks> (and work that are going to be removed once zsys is in)
[13:06] <seb128> how much work and how unrobust?
[13:07] <didrocks> it's already a day "lost" (with progress, but now on that last roadblock ^). The last one will need testing and such, I think 3-4 days… (and again, things will be ditched next cycle hopefully)
[13:08] <seb128> (right, but we are our option, restart the discussion about including zsys after beta? how long is that likely to take into arguing and how likely to success in changing the outcome?)
[13:08] <seb128> I mean I understand the frustration
[13:08] <seb128> I'm just unsure we have other options at this point, out of saying we give up on shipping for this cycle or the normal image...
[13:08] <didrocks> well, I think the decision is already taken, but I just want to hilight that not including zsys is making us loose a week of work basically (which won't be reused)
[13:09] <seb128> right, understood
[13:09] <didrocks> so it's just the most expensive option (for our team)
[13:09] <seb128> thx for pointing it out, and don't worry we know it's not your fault and that it is impacting/delaying the "useful" work
[13:09] <seb128> right :/
[13:09] <willcooke> When you say "removing" what do you mean?   We said that people would have to install zsys manually, right?
[13:09] <seb128> well we are screwed at this point anyway, let's hope it doesn't happen again
[13:10] <didrocks> preferring to raise this :) (hoping as well we won't have specific bugs to those workarounds and won't impact transitionning to zsys next cycle)
[13:10] <didrocks> willcooke: as "the workaround may be incompatible with zsys approach"
[13:10] <didrocks> and so, hacks will have to be removed later on
[13:10] <didrocks> and if people install zsys, we have to figure out a way to transition them
[13:10] <willcooke> meh, IRC is no good for this sort of thing, let's have a hangout in a bit?
[13:11] <didrocks> if you want, but I had the feeling the decision won't change and it would be better to focus/not loose more time?
[13:11] <didrocks> I just escalated that it would be more work than envisioned
[13:12] <willcooke> oki, good to know, thanks.  I still don't really understand what the problem is though, and I would like to
[13:13] <didrocks> if you want to go into the details, there is a race between daemons writing early in /var/lib before the zfs systemd service is mounting it
[13:14] <didrocks> it's something that isn't fixed upstream, if you want a separate /var/lib dataset (which was desired after the review with Steve 6 months ago)
[13:14] <didrocks> and known to be problematic. Zsys fixed it by an early systemd generator
[13:15] <didrocks> hoping that's the level of tech details you were looking for
[13:17] <ricotz> hi, is it possible to sync libcloudproviders 0.3.0-2 from debian which re-introduces the dropped vala bindings
[13:17] <seb128> jbicha, ^
[13:18] <seb128> (since you did those uploads)
[13:18] <willcooke> didrocks, oki, I think I get it.  Aren't we expecting people to install zsys though?
[13:19] <didrocks> willcooke: right, but if they don't before first boot -> they are screwing up their datasets
[13:19] <didrocks> with no easy way to recover
[13:22] <willcooke> didrocks, got it.  Thanks for caring and working on a fix, much appreciated
[13:22] <didrocks> I just hope we'll be able to have something compatible with and without zsys (for transitions)
[13:22] <didrocks> we'll see how it goes
[13:24]  * willcooke has faith in the l33t skillz of didrocks
[13:24] <willcooke> kenvandine, updated gtk-common-themes to beta, so far so good
[13:29] <popey> kenvandine: here's a fun thing. snap remove the gnome platform snap, reboot then try and run one of your snaps :)
[13:29] <popey> kenvandine: Your snaps aren't able to detect that the content snap went away, and they crash all over the place.
[13:29] <popey> Some might say "that's working as designed", but it might be nice if we did something pleasant. Where should I file this do you think? :)
[13:30] <willcooke> Meeting time, everybody shut up and pay attention to me
[13:30] <popey> 💩
[13:30] <willcooke> #startmeeting Desktop Team Meeting 2019-09-24
[13:30] <meetingology> Meeting started Tue Sep 24 13:30:34 2019 UTC.  The chair is willcooke. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[13:30] <meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
[13:31]  * Trevinho at 10 meters from ground
[13:31] <seb128> Trevinho, safe flight!
[13:31] <Trevinho> love 4g on connection
[13:31] <seb128> you are supposed to be in flight mode at this point btw :p
[13:31] <willcooke> Roll call: didrocks, duflu (hols), jamesh (hols), hellsworth(swap), jibel, kenvandine (out?), laney, marcustomlinson, oSoMoN, seb128, tkamppeter, trevinho (going up), robert_ancell (out)
[13:32] <oSoMoN> 🐱/
[13:32] <oSoMoN> Trevinho, don't crash that plane
[13:32] <seb128> hey
[13:32] <willcooke> happy travels Trevinho
[13:32] <willcooke> Flight mode FTW
[13:32] <willcooke> Let's zip through the rls bugs
[13:33] <jibel> you're also not supposed to use a laptop during takeoff
[13:33] <willcooke> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-bb-incoming-bug-tasks.html
[13:33] <willcooke> Looks clear
[13:33] <willcooke> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-dd-incoming-bug-tasks.html
[13:33] <willcooke> Also clear
[13:34] <willcooke> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-ee-incoming-bug-tasks.html
[13:34] <willcooke> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-shell/+bug/1844575
[13:34] <willcooke> Is it Wayland only?
[13:35] <seb128> likely
[13:35] <Laney> think so
[13:35] <Laney> DENIED
[13:35] <willcooke> heh
[13:35] <willcooke> so yeah, -1 for rls status I guess
[13:36] <seb128> -1
[13:37] <willcooke> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-wallpapers/+bug/1845188
[13:37] <willcooke> I tagged that, but really, it's not a release blocker
[13:37] <willcooke> I shouldn't have tagged it on reflection
[13:37] <Laney> well
[13:37] <Laney> gives me a chance to ask if anyone else wants to do it
[13:37] <Laney> :-)
[13:38] <willcooke> :)
[13:38] <Laney> got my hands inside gdm, would be good not to switch
[13:38] <willcooke> Would anyone like to package up the wallpapers, they should be ready to go
[13:38] <Laney> plus, easy packaging, could be fun for someone
[13:38] <willcooke> oSoMoN, I think you helped out last time, if you're interested?>
[13:38] <Laney> plenty of examples in the history to copy
[13:38] <oSoMoN> yeah, can do
[13:38] <willcooke> merci
[13:38] <Laney> neato
[13:39] <willcooke> Assigned, and untagged
[13:39] <seb128> thx oSoMoN
[13:39] <willcooke> which is kinda odd, but I think that's opk
[13:39] <willcooke> ok
[13:39] <seb128> I can do review/sponsoring if needed
[13:39] <willcooke> thanks seb128
[13:39] <willcooke> next up: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-shell/+bug/1845198
[13:39] <willcooke> which may be https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-shell/+bug/1845017 too
[13:39] <seb128> +1
[13:40] <willcooke> yeah, agree
[13:40] <willcooke> and I think there's really only one person to look at it, right?
[13:40] <seb128> assign to Trevinho (sorry Marco)
[13:40] <seb128> yes :/
[13:40] <seb128> well maybe duflu could but he's off atm
[13:40] <seb128> we can to tradding of some work once he's back if needed
[13:40] <willcooke> ack
[13:41] <willcooke> assigned and targetted
[13:41] <willcooke> k, that's it for rls bugs.
[13:41] <jibel> another ee-incoming is bug 1844509
[13:41] <jibel> it is not in the list and affects ubiquity but it's more likely due to a desktop component
[13:41] <willcooke> jibel, so comment #2 is not true any more?
[13:42] <jibel> no it is not, I thought I added a comment to say so.
[13:42] <jibel> will do
[13:42] <seb128> ideally foundations would do the investigation and bounce back to us if needed since they own ubiquity but do we count on that?
[13:42] <willcooke> oki, thanks
[13:42] <willcooke> seb128, I dont think we should count on it
[13:42] <seb128> k
[13:42] <seb128> anyway +1
[13:43] <willcooke> who would like to work out what's going on in that one?
[13:43] <willcooke> is it related to the previous one?
[13:43] <seb128> dunno but I've the bug in a VM atm and looking at the logs
[13:43] <seb128> so feel free to assign to me for round 1
[13:43] <willcooke> kk
[13:43] <willcooke> thanks seb128
[13:44] <seb128> I hope it doesn't hope going back Marco's way :p
[13:44]  * seb128 hugs Trevinho
[13:44] <Laney> bet not
[13:44] <willcooke> seb128, I was going to say - we should spend some time doing an "unassigned" review and seeing if we can trim the old rls bugs list.  Lets try and do that tomorrow?
[13:44] <Laney> bet it's something in the startup sequence rather than shell itself
[13:45] <Laney> just my guess, happy to put 10€ on it though
[13:45] <seb128> lol
[13:45] <willcooke> XDDDD
[13:45] <seb128> I'm not betting, made enough profit for the month :p
[13:45] <willcooke> :D
[13:45] <willcooke> #topic AOB
[13:45] <seb128> willcooke, +1 on cleaning rls
[13:45] <willcooke> Anyone got anything
[13:45] <willcooke> for AOB
[13:45] <seb128> we should review now the targetted/unassigned list
[13:45] <Laney> HAHA
[13:45] <seb128> since those are +1/-1 things
[13:45] <seb128> also proposedmigration
[13:46] <willcooke> seb128, you want to do the targetted ones in the meeting?
[13:46] <seb128> yes, we discussed that previous time and agreed it was the right to do iirc
[13:46] <jibel> AOB. I'd like to escalate bug 1840122. It's breaking automated tests and make iso testing a real PITA
[13:47] <seb128> it's basically the same as the incoming ones
[13:47] <Laney> you two mean different things by the word targetting
[13:47] <Laney> targetted*
[13:47] <seb128> I mean http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-bb-tracking-bug-tasks.html
[13:47] <seb128> &co
[13:47] <seb128> for unassigned entries
[13:48] <willcooke> jibel, I will escalate that one one
[13:48] <willcooke> seb128, oki, let's do it
[13:48] <jibel> thx
[13:48] <willcooke> #topic unassigned rls bugs
[13:49] <willcooke> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/sane-backends/+bug/1731459
[13:50] <willcooke> GunnarHj, are you looking at that one for Bionic still?  ^
[13:50] <seb128> it that's fix commited we can skip those
[13:50] <willcooke> ah yeah
[13:50] <seb128> looks like there is none on the bionic list
[13:50] <willcooke> eyah
[13:51] <seb128> one one disco list
[13:51] <willcooke> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-shell-extension-desktop-icons/+bug/1842904
[13:52] <willcooke> assign duflu and see if he wants to push through the SRU?
[13:52] <seb128> I would delete the disco line
[13:52] <seb128> we got no user report and it's almost 19.10 time
[13:52] <willcooke> that works
[13:53] <seb128> duflu can still targetting it back with a sponsoring request if he wants
[13:53] <willcooke> ee is clear
[13:53] <willcooke> #topic proposed migrations
[13:54] <willcooke> https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_excuses_by_team.html#desktop-packages
[13:54] <willcooke> Anything in that list cause for concern>
[13:54] <willcooke> ?
[13:55] <Laney> promote those libcairo-gobject-perl ones
[13:55] <Laney> the others are in hand
[13:55] <Laney> ... well I'm wondering why g-i is foundations ...
[13:56] <seb128> p_itti's heritage? ;-)
[13:56] <willcooke> should we move it to us
[13:56] <willcooke> >
[13:56] <willcooke> ?
[13:56] <seb128> it would probably reflect better reality
[13:56] <Laney> maybe they want to fix ruby-gnome
[13:56] <seb128> I looked a bit at this one yesterday btw and opened https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ruby-gnome/+bug/1845008
[13:56] <Laney> that's the only reason I just noticed
[13:57] <Laney> yeah
[13:57] <willcooke> k, I will ask Pat when I speak to her about #1840122
[13:57] <Laney> don't really understand it well enough to fix it atm
[13:57] <Laney> but the status is real there, new g-i does break that
[13:57] <Laney> guess I could own it, might work on that later in the week
[13:58] <willcooke> thanks Laney
[13:58] <Laney> that is it
[13:58] <willcooke> #topic AOB2
[13:58] <marcustomlinson> AOB2?
[13:58] <Laney> AAOOBB
[13:58] <didrocks> better than AOB1, obviously
[13:59] <marcustomlinson> haha
[13:59] <willcooke> I was too eager last time
[13:59] <willcooke> AOB2.0 serverless
[13:59] <willcooke> anyone got anything?
[13:59] <willcooke> in 5....
[13:59] <willcooke> 4...
[13:59] <willcooke> 3..
[14:00] <willcooke> 2.
[14:00] <willcooke> 1
[14:00] <willcooke> #endmeeting
[14:00] <meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Sep 24 14:00:40 2019 UTC.
[14:00] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-desktop/2019/ubuntu-desktop.2019-09-24-13.30.moin.txt
[14:00] <didrocks> thx
[14:00] <willcooke> thank you!
[14:00] <seb128> thanks!
[14:00] <willcooke> popey, carry on :)
[14:00] <marcustomlinson> thanks
[14:01]  * popey breathes
[14:21] <kenvandine> popey: atsome point today i'll get emails of the automated builds with the  gtk-common-themes update
[14:21] <popey> ok
[14:21] <kenvandine> all thanks to cwayne :)
[14:26] <popey> What do you think of my question about removing content snaps?
[14:27] <seb128> popey, looks like something that should be solved by snapd for all snaps rather than requesting every single snap author to handle the case
[14:27] <seb128> imho
[14:27] <popey> well, i wasn't sure if it was an error in the snap-store snap or desktop launcher maybe
[14:28] <seb128> kenvandine, ^
[14:28] <seb128> popey, well if you use some content interface snapd should be able to tell no?
[14:29] <popey> That would indeed be sane :)
[14:29] <seb128> probably better discussed on discourse than here in any case
[14:29] <popey> I'll start a forum thread, see what they say
[14:29] <popey> agreed :D
[14:29] <seb128> thx
[14:38] <kenvandine> popey: i must have missed that
[14:44] <seb128> kenvandine, it was the minute before the meeting started
[14:45] <kenvandine> seb128: thanks
[14:46] <kenvandine> popey: yeah, forum post i think
[14:46] <kenvandine> i'd argue that snapd shouldn't let you remove those if there are snaps that need them
[14:46] <kenvandine> if the snap being removed would be the last snap that provided the required interface, snapd should at least complain
[14:47] <popey> yes, agreed, or worst case, should let you remove that snap, and install another which provides slots, and then carry on
[14:47] <popey> Anyway, will start a thread
[14:50]  * Trevinho landed... worried for the bugs 😓
[14:54] <seb128> Trevinho, don't for now :)
[14:54] <Trevinho> seb128: on that lockup issue I'm quite sure is something lower in the stack though
[14:54] <seb128> Trevinho, short flight it was!
[14:54] <seb128> Trevinho, ah, "good"
[14:54] <Trevinho> we're basically neighbors!
[14:55] <Trevinho> but I fixed some gjs branches I had in queue.. and tracker miner, so good flight 😅
[14:56] <seb128>  :)
[14:57] <seb128> you should fly more often!
[14:57] <Trevinho> if we only had that tunnel....
[14:58]  * kenvandine uploaded the fix for the impatience extension, now I am a much happier gnome-shell user :)
[15:00] <Trevinho> kenvandine: 0.5 or less?
[15:03] <kenvandine> i use 0.3
[15:04] <kenvandine> actually, no i have it set to 0.5
[15:08] <popey> kenvandine: https://forum.snapcraft.io/t/removing-content-snap-breaks-a-snap/13382
[15:08] <willcooke> Trevinho, have recreated the bug, but only by reboot about 5 times.
[15:08] <willcooke> ohohohohoho, got a crash report
[15:08] <willcooke> ha, but I can't interact with the crash dialog
[15:12] <mitya57> Trevinho: Hi! I see you looked at unity MRs, can you please also look at https://code.launchpad.net/~mitya57/compiz/+git/compiz/+merge/372943?
[15:13] <Trevinho> willcooke: try get the same trace again
[15:15] <willcooke> Trevinho, https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/x8NhtvZXG5/
[15:16] <willcooke> (also added to the bug comments)
[15:24] <jibel> Laney, could you review bug 1843768 and the branch attached?
[15:25] <jibel> Laney, this is the ffe for zfs in the installer
[15:26] <jibel> ths MP is https://code.launchpad.net/~jibel/ubiquity/+git/ubiquity/+merge/373087
[15:27] <jibel> for the shell zsys-setup apart from the layout of the dataset it's pretty standard sh, so it should not be a problem for you to review it too.
[15:27] <jibel> tell me is you have any question/comment
[15:29] <jibel> if*
[15:31] <Laney> jibel: ok, I will put it on the queue of stuff to do, thanks
[15:31] <seb128> jibel, do you think https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/1844689 is something you could look at?
[15:32] <jibel> seb128, sure
[15:32] <seb128> thx
[15:32] <jibel> assign it to me
[15:32] <seb128> done!
[15:39] <seb128> bah, I can't reproduce that ubiquity-dm issue by stopping everything and starting the job from a VT and the logs are not very useful :-/ debugging that kind of problems is annoying
[15:43] <GunnarHj> seb128: I may recall wrong, but I think that the ubiquity welcome screen only shows up on a legacy machine, i.e. without UEFI.
[16:08] <marcustomlinson> howdy hellsworth
[16:21] <hellsworth> hi marcus!
[16:23] <Laney> anyone ever played with one of those toys where you take apart a cube made up of different shaped interlocking pieces and have to put it back together?
[16:23] <Laney> surpisingly hard
[16:23] <Laney> that's what gdm does to my brain
[16:23] <hellsworth> yep. they're fun but frustrating
[16:23] <Laney> hey hellsworth
[16:23] <hellsworth> hi there
[16:24] <Laney> anyway. fast user switching works here now, let's see what the reviewers say
[16:25] <Trevinho> Laney: anyway related to the super-secret issue? :)
[16:25] <Trevinho> Laney: and... where's the MP?
[16:25] <Laney> dunno what you mean
[16:25] <Laney> not there yet, writing the commit message
[16:26] <Trevinho> Laney: ah, nothing I was just creating some curiosity around :)
[16:28] <Trevinho> willcooke: you were getting that issue at login, or lockscreen, I mean, I should just reboot various times and it should happen on gdm right?
[16:28] <willcooke> yeah login
[16:28] <Trevinho> hi hellsworth
[16:29] <Trevinho> willcooke: mh, so we were analyzing the wrong shell xD
[16:29] <hellsworth> hi Trevinho
[16:29] <willcooke> Trevinho, oh?  I mean it logged in fine (it seems) and I got the proper desktop up
[16:30] <Trevinho> willcooke: mh, so you login, and things hang, but having the user view in front of you, the dasktop say.. not the lockscreen
[16:31] <willcooke> Trevinho, correct. I've got the full desktop in front of me, but I can't click on anything.  The clock tells the right time though
[16:49] <hellsworth> kenvandine, https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gnome-clocks/merge_requests/27 and https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gnome-clocks/merge_requests/32
[16:51] <kenvandine> hellsworth: thanks
[16:53] <kenvandine> hellsworth: question is, do we wait for 32 to merge then rebase 27?
[17:04] <hellsworth> kenvandine, nah I'd vote for merging 27 and let 32 be rebased
[17:14] <oSoMoN> seb128, I have an enigmail build of 2.1.2 in ppa:osomon/tb-tests with autopkgtests passing \o/
[17:15] <oSoMoN> I need to clean up my changes a bit, and it should be upload-able to eoan
[17:53] <willcooke> night all
[20:06] <hellsworth> kenvandine, https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gnome-mahjongg/merge_requests/16
[20:31] <hellsworth> kenvandine, https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gnome-tetravex/merge_requests/7
[20:49] <hellsworth> kenvandine, https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/hitori/merge_requests/24
[21:09] <hellsworth> kenvandine, https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/lightsoff/merge_requests/7
[21:52] <hellsworth> kenvandine, (or anyone really) I don't hear any sounds in quadrapassel installed from apt. Does anyone else? Without knowing what the sounds should be, I can't tell if my snap'd version has a correct sound section or not.
[22:29] <kenvandine> I'll check in the morning


[10:58] <lesshaste> bryce: are you about by any chance?
[11:00] <Ng> lesshaste: it's still very early in the united states of bryce
[11:00] <lesshaste> Ng: ah yes. Thanks
[14:04] <mvo> hm, my X did restart in the middle of a jaunty->karmic upgrade
[14:08] <tjaalton> that's bad :)
[14:08] <tjaalton> real hw or virtual?
[14:09] <Ng> isn't that usually gdm at work? I had that a few times while scott was changing upstart gdm stuff
[14:09] <tjaalton> could be
[14:15] <apw> anyone say what X needs to connect to acpid at boot for?
[14:15] <jcristau> not much, iirc fedora disables that
[14:16] <tjaalton> it doesn't
[14:16] <tjaalton> right, it _does_ but shouldn't need to
[14:17] <apw> so it failing to connect should be non-fatal and uninteresting then?
[14:17] <apw> as it seems the new faster boot is triggering it to fail on some systems, cause acpid is not yet up
[14:17] <tjaalton> http://cvs.fedoraproject.org/viewvc/devel/xorg-x11-server/xserver-1.6.0-less-acpi-brokenness.patch?revision=1.1&view=markup
[14:18] <jcristau> apw: yes, it's non-fatal and uninteresting
[14:18] <apw> most exceelent ... thanks for the info
[14:18] <tjaalton> right
[14:19] <tjaalton> probably worth getting that patch, and also not trying i810 on intel systems.. people are scared of the (EE) msgs on the logs ;)
[14:20] <apw> so acpid is not used to handle vt switching when KMS is _not_ enabled
[14:24] <jcristau> no
[14:27] <mvo> tjaalton: virtual (kvm), but still pretty scary
[14:28]  * mvo tries to reproduce
[14:29] <tjaalton> mvo: well, as Ng said it's likely gdm restarting
[14:29] <jcristau> could be X crashing, could be gdm killing it, or could be the session exiting
[14:29] <tjaalton> unless there's something in the logs
[14:31] <mvo> tjaalton: yeah, I'm trying to find some traces, unfortunately the previous was done with kvm -snapshot (I wanted to test something different) so I need to reproduce it first to get to the logs
[18:25] <bryce> tjaalton, what do you think of bug 444438?
[18:36] <tjaalton> bryce: looks like the package was not installed properly for him
[18:36] <tjaalton> ie. interrupted or so
[18:36] <bryce> hmm
[18:37] <bryce> bug 440233 also seems to be same/similar
[18:37] <bryce> fglrx is working fine for me though
[18:37] <bryce> and I'd expect more bug reports if there was a real issue here
[18:38] <tjaalton> dpkg.log should tell
[18:39] <superm1> maybe something is happening on upgrade for them
[18:40] <bryce> the bug report starts with "After messing around with ATI graphics drivers all day..." so god only knows how they got into this situation
[18:40] <tjaalton> hehe :)
[18:41] <superm1> well so what's the situation that normally causes files to be installed w/ a dpkg-dist extension?
[18:42] <superm1> there is logic in fglrx's preinst that is supposed to move the old files out of the way in the event they were modified at all so that the new ones can be properly installed
[18:42] <superm1> see xorg-driver-fglrx.preinst
[18:42] <tjaalton> I think the package is unconfigured
[18:43] <superm1> if the package was unconfigured, there should have been larger problems though too shouldn't there?
[18:43] <tjaalton> sure, but "messing around .. all day" reflects that ;)
[18:44] <tjaalton> s/but/and/
[18:44] <bryce> yeah that's what I'm thinking
[18:46] <bryce> superm1, https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/fglrx-installer/+bug/440233/comments/3
[18:46] <superm1> not on karmic, no
[18:47] <superm1> karmic has a prerelease, duh.
[18:48] <bryce> ah right
[18:48] <superm1> the original bug in his situation would have been great to see though
[18:52] <bryce> ok, I'm just going to close the bug as invalid; I'm reasonably convinced it's just a busted installation.  thanks
[19:41] <lesshaste> bryce: hi.. are you about?
[19:44] <lesshaste> I am looking for a workaround for http://bugs.freedesktop.org/attachment.cgi?id=22595
[19:44] <lesshaste> can I add some mode lines to xorg.conf maybe?
[21:01] <lesshaste> bryce: I am trying to find a workaround for http://bugs.freedesktop.org/attachment.cgi?id=22595
[21:01] <lesshaste> bryce: I added a Mode line to xorg.conf but that didn't do it
[21:02] <bryce> huh?
[21:02] <lesshaste> bryce: any ideas how to avoid the null pointer?
[21:02] <lesshaste> bryce: I am suffering from the bug that that patch fixes
[21:02] <lesshaste> you kindly triaged it for me on ubuntu launchpad
[21:02] <lesshaste> I was trying to see if I could workaround the bug easily by editing xorg.conf
[21:03] <lesshaste> the patch says "If the screen has no modes defined, can lead to a null pointer dereference in VidModeGetFirstModeline()."
[21:03] <lesshaste> so naively I was wondering if I could define some modes  to avoid it
[21:03] <bryce> lesshaste, why not use the patch?
[21:03] <lesshaste> is this wrong/dumb?
[21:03] <bryce> probably
[21:03] <lesshaste> bryce: I am on intrepid and have never compiled X before
[21:03] <lesshaste> and there is no binary for intrepid
[21:03] <bryce> intrepid?
[21:04] <lesshaste> ubuntu 8.10
[21:04] <bryce> I know what intrepid is
[21:04] <lesshaste> you mean why not upgrade?
[21:04] <lesshaste> disk space problems at the moment
[21:04] <bryce> anyway no, other than applying the patch I do not know of another way to work around it.  You could try upgrading.
[21:05] <lesshaste> are there simple steps to apply the patch I could follow?
[21:05] <bryce> yes, ask on one of the support channels
[21:06] <lesshaste> ah.. I sort of thought I was :)
[21:38] <lesshaste> sorry to be dumb but the patch comment does imply that the problem is only caused by having no modes defined
[21:38] <lesshaste> is this in a different sense to the Mode line in xorg.conf?
[21:43] <tormod> lesshaste, can't you just try to make a mode line and you'll see?
[21:43] <lesshaste> tormod: I did
[21:43] <lesshaste> it made no difference
[21:43] <tormod> well there you go
[21:44] <lesshaste> this either implies a) that the patch is not relevant to my problem, or b) I don't know how to make a mode line or c) the comment in the patch is not correct
[21:46] <tormod> it says "the screen" but that does not have to be the screen you define in xorg.conf
[21:46] <lesshaste> http://pastebin.com/f7a98aeb is my xorg.conf
[21:46] <lesshaste> tormod: ok.. any more ideas?
[21:47] <tormod> I only looked at the patch, would be better if you linked to the bug report ;)
[21:48] <tormod> your pastebin failed
[21:48] <lesshaste> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/442395
[21:49] <lesshaste> http://pastebin.ca/1599463 current xorg.conf
[21:49] <tormod> are you undocking a laptop?
[21:49] <lesshaste> tormod: no
[21:50] <lesshaste> just trying to run just about any app :)
[21:50] <lesshaste> wine also segfaults X
[21:50] <lesshaste> this only started happening in the last month
[21:50] <tormod> and the patch does not work?
[21:50] <tormod> the last month? on intrepid?
[21:50] <lesshaste> tormod: I am still trying to apply it!
[21:51] <lesshaste> yes
[21:51] <lesshaste> I am running dpkg-buildpackage -b
[21:51] <lesshaste> assuming that is the righ thing to do after having applied the patch
[21:51] <tormod> yeah that can take a good while
[21:52] <tormod> well it sounds more like bug 300310
[21:52] <lesshaste> so I am thinking either it was an intrepid update (there have been quite a few) or it's my xorg.conf
[21:52] <lesshaste> but that looks so harmless
[21:53] <lesshaste> tormod: ok. The backtrace I posted is almost identical to http://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19948 however
[21:54] <lesshaste> and I should say that adding Option "DisableVidModeExtension"  does stop the segfault
[21:54] <lesshaste> it also stops wine working completely
[21:54] <tormod> was there an xorg-server-core or -ati update in Intrepid?
[21:54] <lesshaste> how do I tell?
[21:55] <tormod> you can look through /var/log/dpkg.log
[21:57] <tormod> or http://news.gmane.org/gmane.linux.ubuntu.devel.changes.intrepid/
[21:58] <lesshaste> looks like no relevant changes there recently
[21:59] <lesshaste> at least not by that name
[22:00] <lesshaste> ok build finished
[22:00] <lesshaste> hmm..
[22:00] <lesshaste> what do I do know :)
[22:00] <lesshaste> I can't seem to see a .deb file
[22:02] <lesshaste> s/know/now
[22:03] <tormod> it's quite irritating that you keep asking about the same things in many channels
[22:06] <bryce> heh
[22:07] <lesshaste> bryce: I applied the patch and now I get this X Error of failed request:  XF86VidModeExtensionDisabled
[22:07] <tormod> lesshaste, and this is not because you have disabled it in xorg.conf as you wrote above?
[22:08] <tormod> lesshaste, it is considered impolite and against IRC rules to ask the same question in different channels (and to different people)
[22:09] <lesshaste> sorry..
[22:09] <lesshaste> my current xorg.conf
[22:09] <lesshaste> http://pastebin.com/f4e838e26
[22:09] <tormod> you are stealing precious time from people who try to help you
[22:09] <lesshaste> my current Xorg.0.log http://pastebin.com/f39cf3d9e
[22:10] <lesshaste> tormod: understood
[22:11] <tormod> lesshaste, I would try without an xorg.conf
[22:13] <lesshaste> same message without an xorg.conf
[22:13] <lesshaste> just now the resolution is lower :)
[22:13] <tormod> where is that message?
[22:14] <lesshaste> http://pastebin.ca/1599560
[22:16] <lesshaste> I am totally mystified
[22:16] <lesshaste> I applied the patch to xorg-server-1.5.2
[22:16] <lesshaste> and it applied without error
[22:18] <lesshaste> tormod: in the meantime my bug has been marked as  a duplicate of https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xorg-server/+bug/300310
[22:18] <lesshaste> so maybe the patch was just completely the wrong thing to apply?
[22:19] <tormod> lesshaste, no I think that's the same bug. identical stacktrace
[22:19] <lesshaste> ok
[22:19] <tormod> you don't get stacktrace any longer right? the patch worked
[22:20] <lesshaste> that's right. it stops the segfaults
[22:21] <lesshaste> In a similar way to  the Option I mentioned early.
[22:21] <lesshaste> but it breaks the apps
[22:21] <lesshaste> the key question is why is the mode list returned empty?
[22:22] <lesshaste> pScrn = xf86Screens[scrnIndex]; is the line I think that we need to understand
[22:23] <lesshaste> xf86.h:extern ScrnInfoPtr *xf86Screens;	/* List of pointers to ScrnInfoRecs */
[22:26] <tormod> because there is no screen at that exact time I guess
[22:26] <tormod> with xrandr it is possible to turn off all screens
[22:26] <bryce> tormod, btw looks like we're not going to get mesa 7.6 in karmic
[22:26] <lesshaste> is http://bugs.freedesktop.org/attachment.cgi?id=22595 exactly 157_check_null_modes.patch ? I can't see how to check that
[22:26] <jcristau> bryce: what about server 1.6.5?
[22:27] <bryce> jcristau, well we had a FFe and everything for mesa, so if that was rejected I'm doubtful anything else is going to get in
[22:27] <jcristau> well the server has far less changes, all bugfixes
[22:27] <jcristau> s/less/fewer/
[22:28] <tormod> bryce, well that sucks
[22:29] <bryce> jcristau, I think pitti would advocate cherrypicking the fixes
[22:29] <tormod> so somebody does not trust upstream to make a proper release, and would rather ship an old git master snapshot?
[22:30] <bryce> he tends to be rather a stickler about not allowing changes that don't close high priority bug reports in LP
[22:30] <bryce> tormod, that's the gist
[22:31] <lesshaste> tormod: I have posted to the bug but I don't know if it will help. Any ideas from your end before I give up for the night?
[22:31] <tormod> lesshaste, which bug report?
[22:33] <lesshaste> tormod: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-video-ati/+bug/442395
[22:37] <albert23> lesshaste: Do you have package x11proto-xf86vidmode-dev installed in your build environment?
[22:37] <lesshaste> yes
[22:38] <lesshaste> can the X log shows (II) Loading extension XFree86-VidModeExtension
[22:38] <lesshaste> and the...
[22:52] <tormod> lesshaste, is avidemux an SDL app? run ldd /usr/bin/avidemux and look for libsdl something