[12:03] <bob2> gah
[12:03] <bob2> firefox popup!
[12:03] <tseng> mjg59: seen http://lkml.org/lkml/2005/3/3/130?
[12:03] <mdz> luis_: yes
[12:04] <mdz> lamont: that's normal when slocate is freshly installed, before cron.daily runs
[12:04] <lamont> mdz: ah, then I _did_ see it before
[12:04] <lamont> btw, 1.3 GB fsimage
[12:04] <mdz> lamont: excellent!
[12:05] <lamont> archive mirrored
[12:05] <mdz> luis_: that's very strange, I don't know of any reason why pool/ would get larger
[12:06] <mdz> luis_: where this is using the process in the wiki?
[12:06] <luis_> mdz: basically the process in the wiki, yes
[12:06] <mdz> lamont: so that's 1.3G compressed, meaning we need to do some subtraction?
[12:06] <darklight> im abelli... good night everyone
[12:06] <mdz> lamont: or 1.3G uncompressed, meaning we're in business?
[12:06] <mdz> luis_: that process doesn't change pool at all...it just copies it out and back in
[12:06] <lamont> uncompressed - it's compressing now
[12:06] <darklight> and "have a nice day" for everyone on the other side :)
[12:06] <luis_> and at some point between uncompressing the daily livecd (with a pool of ~8M), installing a slew of packages, and recompressing the CD, pool grows to ~499M
[12:06] <mdz> luis_: the manifest is purely informational
[12:07] <mdz> luis_: what does du say is taking up all that space?
[12:07] <luis_> mdz: tons of new packages showing up in pool
[12:08] <sabdfl> night guys
[12:08] <zul> nigh sabdfl
[12:08] <luis_> I'm currently recompressing something, in a few minutes I can give an exact count, i guess
[12:08] <mdz> sabdfl: looks like we'll have kubuntu live CDs to play with tomorrow
[12:08] <Nafallo> night sabdfl
[12:08] <darklight> sabdfl, ciao
[12:08] <darklight> smurfix, u there?
[12:09] <sabdfl> mdz: krock!
[12:09] <sivang> night sabdfl
[12:09] <sabdfl> kthxbye
[12:09] <mdz> luis_: packages??
[12:10] <luis_> mdz: yeah
[12:10] <mdz> luis_: as in, .debs?
[12:10] <lamont> mdz: hrm.. one more little tweak in BuildLiveCD and we're done..  (dropped a link)
[12:10] <luis_> mdz: or at least .debs, 1164 of them
[12:10] <mdz> there is just no way
[12:11] <mdz> lamont: let me know when to fire cron.daily-kubuntu-live
[12:11] <mdz> luis_: in what directory are they placed?
[12:12] <zul> mdz: care to comment on #7155 about the linux security modules networking hooks?
[12:12] <luis_> mdz: extracted_cd/pool/main/ mostly
[12:12] <luis_> (all but 11)
[12:12] <luis_> well, the subdirs thereof
[12:13] <mdz> luis_: you must be rsyncing an install CD onto a live CD
[12:13] <mdz> or something like that
[12:13] <luis_> ah-ha
[12:13] <luis_> mdz: vice-versa, but yeah
[12:13] <luis_> that would explain
[12:14] <luis_> mdz: $ rsync --exclude=/casper/filesystem.cloop -a mnt/ extracted_cd
[12:14] <luis_> that already had an install CD, by accident, underneath it
[12:14] <luis_> well, possibly
[12:15] <luis_> at least, I accidentally downloaded an install CD this morning
[12:15] <dholbach> i'm off to bed... sleep tight everyone
[12:15] <mdz> the instructions are written such that there would be a live CD mounted there
[12:15] <luis_> right
[12:15] <luis_> well, i think I downloaded and mounted the install CD before realizing it
[12:15] <luis_> and did not clear out extracted_cd before downloading the liveCD and restarting
[12:16] <luis_> it has been... a very long day
[12:16] <mdz> :-) here too
[12:16] <mdz> but we're very close
[12:16] <luis_> yeah
[12:16] <luis_> indeed
[12:17] <luis_> press release wrapped up this afternoon
[12:17] <luis_> have to cross the is and dot the ts on the livecd
[12:17] <luis_> or, uh, something like that
[12:18] <ogra> guys we have a discussion about vim-gnome .desktop file in -motu ... it is listed here: http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/UniversePackageWithoutDesktopFile do we want one ?
[12:19] <zul> yes
[12:19] <mdz> ogra: sounds like a question for the desktop team
[12:19] <ogra> early even
[12:19] <mdz> ogra: https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=7059
[12:19] <mdz> soemone filed a bug just recently, perhaps one of the people involved in the discussion?
[12:20] <mdz> ogra: I passed it off to jdub for a desktop team answer
[12:20] <ogra> ah, ok... i'll bug him about it
[12:20] <jdub> mdz: < mdz> trulux: keep nagging jdub until he creates it
[12:20] <jdub> mdz: what was that about?
[12:20] <mdz> jdub: mailing list
[12:21] <ogra> jdub: selinux
[12:21] <jdub> mdz: don't have any pending atm
[12:21] <mdz> jdub: ok, I just assumed that since he was asking "where is it?" that he had actually asked you for it :-P
[12:22] <luis_> mdz: I HUG YOU
[12:22] <luis_> :)
[12:22] <jdub> trulux mentioned some security lists he wanted you to confirm, but without details
[12:22] <jdub> those?
[12:22] <jdub> luis_: how's livecd going?
[12:22] <seb128> jdub: and the desktop files for g-a-i ? :)
[12:22] <luis_> jdub: better than it was about 10 minutes ago
[12:22] <seb128> jdub: I want to update the panel tomorrow with the pending changes :)
[12:22] <mdz> luis_: hehe, no problem
[12:22] <luis_> jdub: nothing like creating two 1.1G isos to just continue a string of bad news for the day
[12:22] <seb128> (ie: menu switch and that)
[12:22] <tseng> I think we agreed to make a "hardened" or "security" mailing list over selinux, no?
[12:22] <jdub> seb128: how long will you be sleeping? ;-)
[12:23] <jdub> seb128: have you done Preferences <-> Administration?
[12:23] <ogra> jdub: i was there when he mentioned them... i think he meant these
[12:23] <jdub> luis_: d'oh!
[12:23] <luis_> jdub: yeah
[12:23] <seb128> jdub: nop, but that will be uploaded tomorrow, I'm looking on it right now
[12:23] <trulux> mdz: best name?
[12:23] <jdub> seb128: cool
[12:23] <jdub> hardened-ubuntu@ ?
[12:23] <seb128> jdub: sleeping about 8h :)
[12:23] <jdub> unbreakable@ ?
[12:23] <trulux> jdub: ubuntu-hardened
[12:23] <trulux> haha
[12:23] <luis_> jdub: it's not good when your first step of the day is spending 1/2 hour downloading an install CD instead of a liveCD, and that is the /best/ thing in your day for 5-6 hours
[12:24] <jdub> seb128: there'll be a present under your pillow then ;)
[12:24] <jdub> luis_: ah, crap
[12:24] <seb128> jdub: BTW have you read about the nautilus change ?
[12:24] <jdub> seb128: not yet
[12:24] <seb128> cool
[12:24] <zenwhen> so is array six still tenatively set for tomorrow?
[12:24] <luis_> but, I have an iso now
[12:24] <tseng> zenwhen: or yesterday
[12:24] <mdz> jdub,trulux: ideally something general enough for all proactive security stuff (stack smash protection, MAC, etc.)
[12:24] <jdub> luis_: so LA had a forum about linux on the desktop yesterday
[12:24] <luis_> and I finally bought CD-RWs
[12:24] <seb128> jdub: Mark asked to switch left/middle click behaviour in spatial
[12:24] <luis_> jdub: linux.au?
[12:24] <zenwhen> oh
[12:24] <jdub> luis_: novell dude (greg keiser if you've met him, south african APAC dude) was great
[12:25] <jdub> luis_: sun and red hat were appalling
[12:25] <trulux> mdz: then ubuntu-hardened sounds appropiate
[12:25] <Nafallo> ubuntu-hardened, that wont break my .procmailrc ;-)
[12:25] <trulux> mdz: are you proud of it?
[12:25] <luis_> jdub: cool
[12:25] <jdub> luis_: linux.org.au, yeah (pia is vp)
[12:25] <trulux> Nafallo: :D
[12:25] <mdz> trulux: works for me
[12:25] <mdz> or maybe ubuntu-hardening?
[12:25] <trulux> mdz: fine
[12:25] <mdz> what fits best with the other lists
[12:25] <trulux> 3 2 1 sold
[12:25] <trulux> ubuntu.hardened
[12:25] <luis_> jdub: yeah, just took me a bit, I was wondering why you'd be in los angeles for a bit
[12:25] <trulux> err -
[12:25] <jdub> seb128: left/middle click? as in the popup menu on drop?
[12:26] <trulux> mdz: better to do as the other lists, append the topic
[12:26] <seb128> jdub: no, like open with or without closing
[12:26] <trulux> ubuntu-hardened
[12:26] <jdub> trulux: with our desktop backgrounds, that's a dangerous name :)
[12:26] <zenwhen> o:
[12:26] <jdub> seb128: oh, for double-click
[12:26] <seb128> jdub: double left click or double middle click
[12:26] <jdub> seb128: yeah, okay
[12:26] <seb128> yeah
[12:26] <mxpxpod> since we're closing in on freeze of main, is there any chance we can update the gtkmm packages?
[12:26] <Nafallo> at what point is new LoCo-teams mailinglists created btw? :-)
[12:26] <trulux> jdub: haha
[12:27] <Nafallo> mailed mailman a week ago or something...
[12:27] <jdub> Nafallo: erk, don't mail mailman
[12:27] <jdub> Nafallo: mail the list admin, ie. me :)
[12:27] <Nafallo> jdub: wiki/LoCoHowto or something :-P
[12:27] <trulux> jdub: then ubuntu-hardened, finally if mdz does not say the opposite
[12:27] <jdub> seb128: would be a great bonus to have a gconf key for it, but your call :)
[12:27] <tseng> mxpxpod: er, those are in main?
[12:27] <seb128> jdub: yeah, I think so
[12:27] <mxpxpod> tseng: I think the gtkmm stuff is
[12:28] <ogra> jdub: btw, no calendar this month ?
[12:28] <jdub> seb128: then at least upstream may take it :)
[12:28] <seb128> jdub: that will make some long discussion again ;)
[12:28] <jdub> ogra: calendar's uploaded
[12:28] <seb128> jdub: I don't think so
[12:28] <jdub> ubuntu-calendar_5.03_source.upload ubuntu-calendar-march_5.03_source.upload
[12:28] <jdub> seb128: don't think upstream will take it?>
[12:28] <ogra> ah, didnt check my mailbox
[12:28] <seb128> jdub: nautilus' list has already some discussion with such patch IIRC, that's against spatial mode ...
[12:28] <mxpxpod> tseng: because there are some undefined symbols in the release we have in main
[12:28] <Nafallo> jdub: done :-)
[12:28] <trulux> jdub: when do you think you could create it?
[12:29] <jdub> trulux: straight away with mdz's confirm
[12:29] <trulux> btw
[12:29] <seb128> jdub: remember this big patch during 2.7 to change spatial mode on some point ?
[12:29] <trulux> gnome-backgrounds conflicts with ubuntu-artwork
[12:29] <jdub> trulux: usually better to make these requests by email
[12:29] <jdub> yeah, known bug
[12:29] <trulux> mdz: can you confirm?
[12:29] <seb128> jdub: IIRC this was one of the change, and the upstream advice reply is "that's not spatial mode"
[12:29] <jdub> seb128: nah, they were all conflated
[12:29] <tseng> mxpxpod: ugh. i think youll have to wait until after preview, then clear it with jdub and mdz. is it breaking something in desktop?
[12:29] <mxpxpod> tseng: no, it's just annoying when I'm trying to develop coaster :)
[12:30] <seb128> jdub: maybe they will take it, let's write the patch we will see :)
[12:30] <trulux> jdub: email?
[12:30] <jdub> mxpxpod: gtkmm is in the gnome release set, it will be updated until gnome release
[12:30] <mxpxpod> tseng: I'm trying to use TargetLists and there's an undefined symbol to the create method of them
[12:30] <jdub> trulux: when you're asking for lists and things like that, it's usually better to make the request by email, because then you guarantee the details are tehre and the person has it
[12:30] <jdub> trulux: find for now
[12:31] <jdub> fine
[12:31] <jdub> unless mdz is already asleep
[12:31] <jdub> in which case i'm happy to take any hits if it's a bad name
[12:31] <zul> jdub: i have a gamin question for you
[12:31] <trulux> jdub: just that I'm also near to go to bed
[12:32] <trulux> and I will be away for 2 days :(
[12:32] <mxpxpod> jdub: in that case, can we get gtkmm updated to 2.5.7 and glibmm to 2.5.6?
[12:32] <trulux> nite
[12:32] <zul> jdub: is it possible to blacklist directories such as /media and such
[12:32] <jdub> trulux: so you're not going to be able to use the list anyway? :)
[12:32] <jdub> zul: 0.0.25 should deal with that
[12:32] <trulux> not in 2 days
[12:32] <tseng> jdub: it doesnt
[12:32] <mdz> lamont: ISO build succeeded, downloading now
[12:32] <zul> jdub; is 0.0.25 available?
[12:32] <jdub> tseng: bummer
[12:32] <jdub> zul: it's in hoary
[12:32] <tseng> at least not here
[12:32] <zul> ok cool
[12:32] <seb128> 0.0.25 pool on /media, no ?
[12:33] <seb128> poll even
[12:33] <jdub> that's what i've found
[12:33] <mdz> Riddell: still here?
[12:33] <tseng> it says its fixed, but I see the same bug
[12:33] <jdub> mdz: ok with 'ubuntu-hardened'?
[12:33] <mdz> yes
[12:33] <tseng> ie, usb devices not picked up in drivemount-applet and desktop
[12:34] <tseng> actually, my ipod is working
[12:35] <tseng> ignore me, i tested it with a usb2 drive enclosure yesterday with no luck
[12:35] <jdub> tseng: try that one again?
[12:35] <tseng> will do.
[12:35] <jdub> ta
[12:35] <jdub> going back to dnotify, we need to make sure it's not used on those dirs :)
[12:36] <tseng> actually, when I tested i think i was using inotify
[12:36] <tseng> using dnotify atm
[12:36] <tseng> might make a difference
[12:36] <seb128> probably does
[12:36] <jdub> shouldn't make *that* particular difference - that's bad! :)
[12:36] <tseng> the other usb drive is happy now
[12:37] <Loevborg> copying to a usb stick is 10x slower using nautilus than using "cp" - is that a known issue?
[12:38] <jon1012> Loevborg> maybe the sync after that will be faster with nautilus than cp ?
[12:39] <jon1012> did you try the "sync" command after ?
[12:39] <Loevborg> jon1012, no, it's really slower.
[12:39] <Loevborg> jon1012, I umounted after.
[12:39] <jon1012> ok... :-/
[12:42] <jdub> ogra: motu meeting summary is great!
[12:42] <ogra> jdub: thanks :)
[12:42] <tseng> it was a productive meeting
[12:44] <GheRivero> res people
[12:44] <jdub> hey GheRivero
[12:45] <sivang> summery sent to -devel ?
[12:45] <sivang> (motu meeting)
[12:45] <ogra> yup
[12:45] <sivang> ogra: cool, sorry I couldn't be there, I am trying to finish something for preview
[12:45] <ogra> sivang: same here ;)
[12:46] <sivang> ogra: so you didn't attend?
[12:46] <sivang> ogra: :)
[12:46] <ogra> sivang, sometimes i cant avoid doing both ;)
[12:47] <jdub> luis_: there?
[12:48] <luis_> yeah
[12:48] <sivang> ogra: ah :)
[12:48] <mxpxpod> jdub: I just filed some bugs on glibmm and gtkmm
[12:49] <Nafallo> dooh. you guys should have alias like<EMAIL_ADDRESS>;-). jdub I hope my mail arrived this time :-P.
[12:50] <jdub> luis_: http://people.ubuntu.com/~jdub/2005/ubuntu-on-the-desktop/
[12:50] <jdub> if you're interested
[12:50] <jdub> Nafallo: yeah, only have name-based email addresses :)
[12:51] <sivang> jdub: cool presentatoin, I'll translate and do it over here :)
[12:52] <luis_> you know, I think if you airbrushed out her nipples people would comment a lot less on all the skin ;)
[12:53] <jdub> we did on the cd cover :)
[12:53] <zenwhen> "totally rad laptop support"
[12:53] <zenwhen> Well I have to agree
[12:53] <zenwhen> hoary is a dream on my laptop
[12:53] <mdz> jdub: that's what I heard we were doing, but my CD covers say otherwise
[12:53] <zenwhen> and its a 266Mhz P2 junker
[12:53] <jdub> sivang: also ~jdub/2004/ubuntu-1-2-3/
[12:53] <zenwhen> I use xfce
[12:53] <jdub> nipplehunt
[12:53] <zenwhen> hot
[12:54] <jdub> oh, it's more subtle on the cd cover
[12:54] <tseng> on gdm she has on the high beams
[12:54] <zenwhen> no no the nips really "sood out" to me
[12:54] <zenwhen> stood out
[12:54] <zenwhen> they really "poke out" at you and make you notice them
[12:54] <jdub> tseng: yeah, didn't bother with that one. alternate theme and all. ;)
[12:54] <sivang> jdub: cool
[12:55] <lamont> another voice ^T&_(*& telephone automated system defeated
[12:55] <zenwhen> I "stood at attention" and was quite "interested"
[12:55] <jdub> Nafallo: swedish team isn't listed as official yet
[12:55] <zenwhen> no inuendo there at all
[12:55] <tseng> ill test /media and inotify for you in a few jdub
[12:55] <jdub> thanks tseng
[12:55] <whiprush> jdub: mind if I rip some of those for a LUG presentation?
[12:56] <jdub> whiprush: up
[12:56] <jdub> whiprush: nup
[12:56] <jdub> i should make my upload script add creative commons logos and shit :)
[12:56] <mako> herzi: herzi yes.. that's correct
[12:56] <luis_> what are you guys going to ship the april release with? ooo 1.1 or 1.9?
[12:57] <jdub> luis_: looking like 1.1 atm
[12:57] <GheRivero> anybody knows was going on with the server [team|edition] ?
[12:57] <jdub> but 2.0 is in
[12:57] <luis_> in universe, though, right?

[12:57] <luis_> blah
[12:57] <jdub> luis_: it's in main
[12:57] <luis_> I left xpdf on the liveCD
[12:57] <jdub> GheRivero: we don't have a separate server edition
[12:57] <ogra> urgh
[12:57] <jdub> GheRivero: but jbailey is the man to speak to about the server team
[12:58] <jdub> GheRivero: and java stuff
[12:58] <jdub> luis_: evince for great justice!
[12:58] <mdz> kubuntu-live IS GO
[12:58] <jdub> yay!
[12:58] <luis_> that is bizarre
[12:59] <luis_> xpdf claims not to be installed
[12:59] <luis_> but it is right there in /usr/bin/xpdf
[12:59] <ogra> only i386 :(
[12:59] <Nafallo> jdub: ehm. pt, es, fr seems to exist? where to go official? Not LoCoTeamList?
[12:59] <mdz> ogra: my friend, this is the _very first working kubuntu live cd_
[12:59] <jdub> Nafallo: see http://www.ubuntu.com/wiki/LoCoTeams
[12:59] <mdz> other architectures are being built as we speak
[01:00] <jdub> mdz: lorenzo is adminning -hardened, yeah?
[01:00] <ogra> mdz: i know, but i had to give away half of my HW last week when i resigned...no i386 around :(
[01:00] <mdz> jdub: up to you, listmaster
[01:00] <mdz> ogra: are you starting a new job?
[01:01] <ogra> mdz: curretly i'm jobess
[01:01] <ogra> mdz: i applied at credativ....but will have to wait
[01:01] <tseng> ogra: good luck!
[01:01] <jdub> ogra: you want to be a kubuntu hackeur? :)
[01:01] <tseng> im waiting to hear back on a job as well
[01:02] <ogra> at least i feel really better now
[01:02] <mdz> how do I take a screenshot in KDE?
[01:02] <jdub> ogra: you didn't seem happy where you were - yucky place?
[01:02] <ogra> jdub: nah, just wanted to see the amu work :)
[01:02] <jdub> ogra: (i mean wrt credativ)
[01:02] <tseng> wasabi: chill out, im on it
[01:02] <ogra> jdub: ah....
[01:02] <tseng> im blaming dbus atm
[01:02] <wasabi> oh i suspose you know what im talking about then? :)
[01:02] <ogra> jdub: there is always somwthing behind the desktop ;)
[01:03] <tseng> wasabi: crasher?
[01:03] <wasabi> not exactly...
[01:03] <tseng> lets hear it
[01:03] <wasabi> it starts, waits for about 15 seconds, then exits.
[01:03] <wasabi> All done. Ciao!
[01:03] <tseng> oh thats a case of you arent following upstream crack smoking
[01:03] <tseng> its an applet now
[01:03] <wasabi> oh super
[01:03] <wasabi> whaaaa
[01:03] <tseng> or you can force it with --tray-icon
[01:03] <ogra> jdub: and i have no idea for what i applied actually....i would take anything related to OSS i think
[01:03] <wasabi> oh looky there, sure nuff
[01:04] <wasabi> never even noticed
[01:04] <mdz> http://people.ubuntu.com/~mdz/kubuntu/kubuntu.png
[01:04] <wasabi> eww no transparent background either
[01:04] <ogra> hmm, looks like ked
[01:04] <ogra> kde even
[01:04] <sivang> ogra: working on oss is a dream, I wish you luck also :)
[01:04] <tseng> ogra: because it is :P
[01:04] <tseng> nasty as ever
[01:04] <ogra> heh
[01:05] <ajmitch> ogra: where are you working now?
[01:06] <ajmitch> between jobs? :)
[01:06] <ogra> sivang: i wont take anything else :) my initial spark for writing the actual resignation was my boss denying linux at my workplace after three years
[01:06] <tseng> he's a full time hack-a-thon
[01:07] <ogra> ajmitch: currently i live from my savings and probably some bounty work..... afetr three months i'll get my dole....
[01:07] <ogra> which is 63% from my last loan which was high enough to be happy with 63%
[01:07] <ajmitch> I hope you get a job before then
[01:08] <sivang> ogra: well, what can I say? I have been in numerous work places that denied linux altogether, I'm glad I am not working for them anymore.
[01:08] <lamont> mdz: so how does update-inetd decide whether it's interactive or not??
[01:08] <sivang> ogra: all the best then :)
[01:08] <mdz> lamont: $DEBIAN_FRONTEND
[01:08] <ogra> ajmitch: depends on what comes around....else i'll start freelancing (i got many friens in it companys)
[01:08] <ogra> sivang: thanks :)
[01:08] <luis_> jdub: have two seconds I can pick your brain during?
[01:09] <lamont> Template: debconf/frontend
[01:09] <lamont> Value: Noninteractive
[01:09] <lamont> does that get downshifted, I wonder?
[01:09] <jdub> luis_: sure
[01:09] <Nafallo> well, night all
[01:09] <jdub> luis_: two seconds is not a lot of cpu power ;)
[01:09] <bob2> what's the magic boot option to not copy .debs onto the disk?
[01:09] <luis_> jdub: are you guys planning a graphical boot/installer at some point in the near future?
[01:09] <mdz> luis_: yes
[01:10] <luis_> next release, or further out?
[01:10] <jdub> luis_: it's on the list for discussion/specification at UDU; might be next release.
[01:10] <mdz> bob2: archive_copier/copy=false
[01:10] <mdz> bob2: but 1.5G still isn't enough, I don't think
[01:10] <bob2> mdz: hah
[01:11] <bob2> mdz: I thought 1.2 for base, 600MB for .debs
[01:11] <tseng> jdub: /media, gamin, inotify .. fail on both devices
[01:11] <jdub> tseng: does it fail to monitor, or does it somehow lock them?
[01:12] <tseng> it mounts them, which comes up in nautilus
[01:12] <tseng> but it fails to show up on the desktop on drivemount-applet
[01:12] <tseng> do you have a more scientific test?
[01:12] <jdub> mdz: so, if you choose a locale in the installer that is not shipped on the cd, do we have an option to download it during install?
[01:12] <mdz> jdub: yep
[01:12] <jdub> rad!
[01:12] <mdz> if you answer "yes" to the question
[01:13] <mdz> then it just does it
[01:13] <zul> ogra: you get no EI for 3 months?
[01:13] <jdub> awesome
[01:13] <ogra> zul: yup, german law....if you resign yourself
[01:13] <zul> ah i c
[01:14] <mdz> luis_: graphical installer is very likely for the next release, graphical boot quite likely but lower priority
[01:14] <ogra> zul: but the 63% for a year
[01:14] <ogra> then even
[01:15] <Riddell> mdz: looks nice, is that ISO available somewhere?
[01:16] <tseng> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/
[01:16] <mdz> Riddell: /topic
[01:17] <zenwhen> kubuntu was a good idea
[01:18] <tseng> jdub: do you have a specific test I should try re gamin?
[01:18] <zenwhen> keeps the install to one cd and
[01:18] <jdub> tseng: pull the source package, there are tests in there
[01:18] <zenwhen> keeps me from downloading kde libs and things i dont need to install ubuntu when i get images
[01:18] <tseng> sure
[01:18] <Riddell> mdz: and the .1 version of the install CD, that's been rebuilt to work now too?
[01:18] <jdub> tseng: i imagine it's the inotify backend lagging a bit in the latest releases
[01:18] <jdub> need some refactoring for common functionality
[01:18] <mdz> Riddell: it should be.  I haven't tested it, but would appreciate it if you could do so
[01:19] <Riddell> mdz: great, will download it overnight
[01:19] <mdz> lamont: do we have amd64+powerpc kubuntu cloops?
[01:20] <lamont> not yet.
[01:21] <lamont> Setting up cvs (1.12.9-9) ...
[01:21] <lamont> Couldn't reopen stdin at /usr/sbin/update-inetd line 29.
[01:22] <mdz> Riddell: Kubuntu or KUbuntu?
[01:23] <mdz> lamont: I recommend editing =update-inetd and changing that line to:
[01:23] <mdz> open(STDIN,  "<$file") or die "Couldn't reopen stdin: $!"
[01:23] <Riddell> mdz: good question
[01:23] <lamont> Name: debconf/frontend
[01:23] <lamont> Template: debconf/frontend
[01:23] <lamont> Value: Dialog
[01:23] <lamont> Owners: debconf
[01:23] <lamont> Flags: seen
[01:23] <lamont> how the hell did that happen
[01:23] <Riddell> mdz: the former I think.  /me never liked the name anyway
[01:23] <mdz> Riddell: what's the usual scheme in the K community?
[01:25] <lamont>     my $file = ($ENV{DEBIAN_FRONTEND} eq 'noninteractive') ?
[01:25] <lamont>         '/dev/null' : '/dev/tty'; # see 4.13 changelog entry
[01:25] <sivang> anybody have any idea what should I give gksudo when spawning it using g_spawn_sync so it would *kindly* ask for the current user password rather then root's one?
[01:25] <lamont> so when the field in the file is 'Noninteractive', does that check still do the right thing?
[01:25] <Riddell> mdz: when K is used as a prefix the second upper case does usually seem to be kept
[01:25] <jdub> generally not when you can say it though
[01:26] <jdub> KParts vs. Kate
[01:26] <tseng> jdub: happen to know what tests do polling?
[01:26] <lamont> mdz: because /dev/null is there, etc, etc.  With no controlling tty, though , the build fails
[01:26] <jdub> tseng: not offhand
[01:26] <Riddell> jdub: but KThesaurus and KPackage, but if kubuntu is just one word then it should be Kubuntu
[01:26] <tseng> jdub: this test suite looks like voodoo magic mostly.
[01:26] <Riddell> cos k-ubuntu sounds daft
[01:26] <jdub> tseng: welcome to DV :)
[01:27] <mdz> lamont: I suggest adding some debugging, both $! and the value of DEBIAN_FRONTEND
[01:27] <mdz> lamont: it seems likely that DEBIAN_FRONTEND is coming through as dialog
[01:27] <jdub> Riddell: i think Kubuntu is a good brand name; Ubuntu KGX is another good option, that might encourage further buy-in from upstream.
[01:27] <jdub> Riddell: but i think they'll buy in anyway :)
[01:27] <mdz> lamont: and so it's actually trying to open /dev/tty
[01:27] <jdub> Riddell: eh, did you listen to the latest lugradio?
[01:28] <tseng> you build a small program and run it against a series of script files
[01:28] <tseng> which is fine.. but the output isnt very comprehensible
[01:28] <mdz> thom: I don't suppose you're awake
[01:28] <Riddell> jdub: yes I did, very good stuff (although their Scottish accents could do with some work)
[01:28] <jdub> tseng: just check the output against the example output :)
[01:28] <tseng> expect line 5: got 2 of 3 expected events
[01:28] <thom> mdz: i never like the sound of that :-)
[01:28] <jdub> Riddell: ha ha
[01:28] <tseng> cuz 2 out of three aint bad
[01:28] <jdub> Riddell: kubuntu pimp action :)
[01:28] <mdz> thom: good morning :-)
[01:28] <lamont> mdz: it became Dialog after I tried setting it to 'noninteractive' (instead of 'Noninteractive'), the former being an invalid value
[01:29] <thom> mdz: good evening; how are you this freezing day?
[01:29] <mdz> thom: I was thinking it might be nice to have a torrent for the kubuntu test image
[01:29] <tseng> jdub: in that case, i think test 4 fails
[01:29] <mdz> lamont: that's odd; "noninteractive" should be correct
[01:29] <Riddell> who is the ubuntu artist?  I was thinking about this for a logo http://muse.19inch.net/~jr/tmp/kubuntu1.png
[01:29] <mdz> lamont: even debconf itself uses that test
[01:29] <mdz> if (lc Debconf::Config->frontend eq 'noninteractive' &&
[01:30] <Riddell> the top one obviously
[01:30] <lamont> Choices: Dialog, Readline, Gnome, Kde, Editor, Noninteractive
[01:30] <mdz> lamont: though I suppose debconf/frontend is the value of the select item, and not the true name of the frotnend
[01:30] <jdub> Riddell: btw, the new kde logo is cool
[01:30] <lamont> I see no 'noninteractive' there
[01:30] <thom> mdz: sounds doable
[01:30] <thully> before I rsync, is the kubuntu daily install ISO currently working?
[01:30] <Riddell> jdub: are you just saying that because of the similarity to the gnome one? :)
[01:30] <lamont> the other challenge is that update-inetd is getting installed from the true archive...
[01:31] <jdub> Riddell: it may have had some sentimental familiarity ;)
[01:31] <Riddell> thully: unknown, nobody has tried it as far as I know
[01:32] <lamont> otoh, netbase is installed by debootstrap... gah. what evil.
[01:32] <lamont> (me, not it)
[01:33] <Riddell> jdub: are we sorted on the applications.menu scheme, are you going to patch ubuntu's gnome packages to use gnome-applications.menu?
[01:33] <thom> mdz: is this an omg-right-this-second request, or can i do it in the morning? (sleep is a very tempting option)
[01:33] <jdub> Riddell: yep
[01:35] <mdz> lamont: Uploading via ftp netbase_4.19ubuntu4_source.changes: done.
[01:36] <mdz> thom: well, in your morning, I'll be asleep, and won't be able to make the announcement
[01:36] <mdz> thom: so about automating the seeding...;-)
[01:36] <thom> oh, fair point
[01:36] <thom> yes; its on the todo list
[01:36] <mdz> it's not critical that we have a torrent
[01:36] <lamont> mdz: I just stomp on the file between the debootstrap and apt-get stages. :-)
[01:36] <mdz> I just figured it'd be nice, since it's likely to get a lot of attention
[01:37] <thom> mdz: it's totally doable now
[01:38] <thom> mdz: just tell me which iso you want torrentable, and it shall be done
[01:39] <mdz> thom: the one in the topic
[01:39] <thom> okiedokey
[01:40] <mdz> I generated the .torrent already
[01:42] <thom> yup
[01:42] <thom> rsyncing now
[01:46] <lamont> mdz: no such device or address. :-)
[01:46] <mdz> lamont: /dev/tty, then?
[01:47] <lamont> almost certainly.
[01:47] <lamont> but I can't spell, so I'm running it again to get the frontend var in the die call
[01:47] <thom> mdz: being seeded now
[01:47] <mdz> lamont: or you can just use the new netbase :-)
[01:47] <mdz> thom: thanks
[01:48] <thom> give it about 5 minutes for processing and it should be good to go
[01:48] <lamont> given that the buildd hasn't built netbase yet...
[01:48] <mdz> thom: I just fired up a seed locally, and there is already traffic on it
[01:48] <mdz> it just maxed out my upstream
[01:49] <zenwhen> have array six clean install reports been mostly positive?
[01:50] <mdz> zenwhen: seems that way
[01:50] <thom> mdz: i think we're hitting each other; i have a download running on a host remotely; they're both waiting on torrent.u.c to finish processing and give peering love
[01:51] <thom> which has now happened
[01:51] <thom> mdz: i was pulling 50K/sec off you, now closer to 2MB/sec with orcadas in the picture
[01:51] <mdz> yep
[01:52] <mdz> thanks
[01:52] <thom> np
[01:54] <lamont> Couldn't reopen stdin No such device or address  at /usr/sbin/update-inetd line 29.
[01:54] <lamont> is printed by: open(STDIN,  "<$file") or die "Couldn't reopen stdin $! $ENV{DEBIAN_FRONTEND}";
[01:54] <lamont> so me thinks it's empty...
[01:56] <mdz> interesting
[02:01] <mdz> hmm, we should have torrented the install CD too
[02:02] <jdub> jdubtv! -> http://node.waugh.id.au:8800/
[02:04] <schweeb> jdub: frightening
[02:05] <mdz> I don't see freedom.  I only see grapefruit juice
[02:06] <schweeb> jdub: how bandwidth intensive is that?  you goin through a ton of bw on your linode (I'm assuming that's where this is streamed through)
[02:06] <jdub> schweeb: yeah, upstreamed to the linode; pushing 90kbit/s per stream atm.
[02:07] <lamont> mdz: thoughts?
[02:08] <lamont> WTH does update-inetd need to open a file anyway?  Why not try opening /dev/tty, and if that fails, open /dev/null?
[02:08] <mdz> lamont: did you find out why debconf/frontend was wrong?
[02:09] <lamont> uh, it's set to Noninteractive in config.dat (became Dialog only when I changed  that to noninteractive in the seed), and it's empty in update-inetd
[02:09] <lamont> ] <lamont> Couldn't reopen stdin No such device or address  at /usr/sbin/update-inetd line 29.
 is printed by: open(STDIN,  "<$file") or die "Couldn't reopen stdin $! $ENV{DEBIAN_FRONTEND}";
[02:10] <lamont> you;ll note a double space after the 'address'
[02:10] <lamont> ==> empty
[02:11] <lamont> and empty != 'Noninteractive' :-(
[02:13] <tseng> does anyone know of a package using dpatch and not cdbs for me to look at?
[02:13] <mdz> lamont: export DEBIAN_FRONTEND=noninteractive?
[02:13] <mdz> tseng: emacs21
[02:13] <tseng> mdz: thanks.
[02:17] <tseng> this is silly, why would a package (ldaptor) have a ton of files -w
[02:17] <tseng> its a native package
[02:23] <jdub> mdz: heh, s/KUbuntu/Kubuntu/ ;)
[02:23] <lamont> tseng: postfix
[02:24] <mdz> jdub: bleah, I regret asking :-)
[02:24] <tseng> got one, just thought include dpatch.make was a cdbs thing
[02:24] <tseng> this python package does an explicit (<< 2.4), might be bad news =/
[02:26] <lamont> mdz: yep.  weddell finished first. :-)
[02:27] <tseng> hm newer one in debian, might want to sync it
[02:27] <tseng>     - Clean up and python2.4-proof LDAPAttributeTypeAndValue parsing.
[02:32] <jdub> Riddell: if you've switched to kde-*.menu, there's not much poitn changing the gnome stuff
[02:35] <Riddell> jdub: but but it would be unfair if you didn't
[02:36] <jdub> ?
[02:37] <bob2> wow, first spam to<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[02:37] <bob2> took only 2 days
[02:37] <Riddell> jdub: just seems unfair if we have to change and gnome doesn't
[02:39] <jdub> so the spec optimises for a common menu
[02:39] <jdub> thus the central applications.menu file
[02:40] <jdub> we have distro policy reasons for using a different kde menu structure to gnome's
[02:40] <jdub> which may or may not be the right way to go about it
[02:40] <jdub> but that's what we've decided for now
[02:41] <jdub> so given that, we've resolved the namespace issue
[02:41] <Riddell> jdub: yes
[02:42] <Riddell> I still think it's unfair that KDE has to change and not gnome, but I won't cry too much over it
[02:42] <zul> jdub: still no 0.20
[02:42] <jdub> Riddell: it's a kde change; there's no point churning for the sake of it
[02:44] <calc> just make kde's menu structure look the same as gnomes? ;)
[02:45] <jdub> well, we could use a common structure
[02:45] <jdub> but that's getting close to LCD suckage
[02:45] <jdub> which i really want to avoid
[02:45] <jdub> cf. red hat
[02:45] <Riddell> that's the other option but it does require renaming icons and various other playing about
[02:45] <Riddell> jdub: LCD?
[02:45] <calc> what would be wrong with just using the gnome menu layout on kde?
[02:46] <jdub> lowest common denominator
[02:46] <jdub> Riddell: nah it doesn't
[02:49] <Riddell> who is the ubuntu artist?
[02:50] <jdub> there is no single artist
[02:51] <jdub> andy fitzsimon is doing a contract to create our icons
[02:51] <jdub> we have other designers contracted for cd covers, etc.
[02:51] <tseng> ogra: if a package is building 2.3 and 2.2
[02:51] <tseng> ogra: do we make it just 2.4, 2.4 and 2.3, or what?
[02:51] <jdub> i've done some of the artwork
[02:51] <Riddell> jdub: any thoughts on a kubuntu logo?
[02:52] <jdub> should probably hug the kde style more than the ubuntu style
[02:53] <jdub> how about asking kde-artists?
[02:53] <jdub> that'd energize upstream :)
[02:54] <Riddell> yeah.  kde-artist.  that.  I'll try and bounce it off tackat
[02:54] <whiprush> replace the gear with the ubuntu circle, that'd look neat.
[02:54] <jdub> abusing the ubuntu logo is kinda problematic
[02:55] <whiprush> upstream would probably think the same.
[02:56] <jdub> nah, it's a good one, but stupid technicalities get in the way
[02:56] <jdub> i liked Riddell's gears in the same shape
[02:57] <Riddell> http://muse.19inch.net/~jr/tmp/kubuntu1.png  just needs someone with tallent to perfect it
[02:57] <Riddell> and i need to get an SVG 'k' off tackat
[02:59] <whiprush> heh, clever.
[03:00] <jdub> what do you call gears on the inside?
[03:00] <jdub> perhaps those would be cool
[03:02] <whiprush> If I'm reading google right, the big one is called the wheel, and the smaller ones are called pinions
[03:04] <mdz> kubuntu.png is on distrowatch already
[03:04] <Riddell> didn't take them long
[03:05] <mdz> #4 on the 6-month chart now
[03:06] <mdz> their announcement is better than mine :-)
[03:07] <tseng> cdbs-edit-patch rocks
[03:09] <bob2> hah
[03:14] <bob2> mdz: do you happen to remember which bug # is "ipv6 makes dns slow"?
[03:17] <mdz> bob2: https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2381
[03:17] <bob2> ah, thanks
[03:17] <mdz> (no, but I searched for it ;-) )
[03:17] <bob2> bugzilla's search thing appears to not actually do anything
[03:17] <mdz> that is true of the simple search
[03:17] <bob2> ah
[03:17] <mdz> but the advanced search works
[03:21] <mdz> <IP_ADDRESS> - - [04/Mar/2005:02:21:31 +0000]  "GET /~mdz/kubuntu/kubuntu.png HTTP/1.1" 200 109718 "http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1481466" "Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.5) Gecko/20041107 Firefox/1.0"
[03:21] <mdz> now spread to somethingawful
[03:22] <bob2> hahahaha
[03:22] <hiweed> thank u, bob2
[03:22] <jdub> mdz: ha ha
[03:23] <bob2> web forums truly bring out the best in people
[03:23] <bob2> from the stupid nicks, abusive taglines, terrible spelling, it's all there
[03:24] <zenrox> thx bob2 i love you too
[03:24] <zenrox> lol
[03:26] <hiweed> hey all, I am the team leader of Hiweed-Debian GNU/Linux. I wanna join the Ubuntu Developers team. How to?
[03:26] <bob2> whats "hiweed-debian gnu/linux"?
[03:26] <tseng> hiweed: hi, see http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/MOTU please
[03:27] <hiweed> bob2: http://linux.hiweed.com
[03:27] <tseng> chinese localized distro it looks
[03:27] <hiweed> yeah
[03:27] <tseng> http://freshmeat.net/projects/hiweed/?branch_id=51410&release_id=188054
[03:27] <tseng> I can actually read that one.
[03:28] <hiweed> hehh
[03:28] <hiweed> thanks tseng.
[03:29] <tseng> if you are interested in translation, youll want to look to the docs team instead
[03:29] <hiweed> no thanks
[03:29] <tseng> MOTU is for up and coming package maintainers
[03:31] <hiweed> I am interested in the Chinese relative pacakges
[03:31] <hiweed> hehh
[03:32] <hiweed> thx tseng
[03:32] <tseng> no problems. good luck
[03:32] <hiweed> :)
[03:41] <jbailey> tseng: If you're still looking for a package which uses dpatch without cdbs, glibc sort of qualifies ;)
[03:42] <tseng> jbailey: nope, but thanks
[03:44] <thully> hi - anyone tested Kubuntu ISO yet?
[03:44] <thully> I just did - it works
[03:46] <mdz> kubuntu live-i386 works fine for me, of course.  I'm trying install-amd64 now
[03:48] <thully> I used install-i386
[03:49] <thully> One small little question - any clue on how to get icons on the KDE root menu?  There are very few icons on the KDE root menu
[03:52] <Riddell> thully: you'd be wanting the KDE 3.4 packages to solve that
[03:52] <thully> OK - is that what's likely going to be released with Hoary?
[03:53] <thully> or is Kubuntu on an independent release cycle?
[03:53] <Riddell> deb http://jasmine.19inch.net/~jr/away/kubuntu/ ./
[03:53] <Riddell> thully: kubuntu will be released with hoary (fingers crossed et al)
[03:54] <thully> Will these enable udev/hal recognition of CDs, USb sticks, ...?
[03:54] <Riddell> future releases should be released with ubuntu as well but may be delayed if there's a KDE release coming out shortly after
[03:54] <Riddell> thully: with any luck yes
[03:55] <thully> Why not just bring the KDE 3.4 beta packages into Hoary, in the same way the GNOME 2.10 beta packages are?
[03:55] <Riddell> thully: because I only just finished compiling them and they should be tested first
[03:55] <thully> so, is it looking like Hoary will release w/3.3 or 3.4?
[03:57] <thully> Is there any chance we may see Firefox as the browser (instead of Konqueror) in KUbuntu - I've found Firefox faster and more reliable at rendering websites correctly
[04:01] <calc> kde uses konqueror for a bit more than just a browser
[04:01] <calc> interesting seeing luis in here
[04:02] <jdub> calc: gnome livecd :)
[04:02] <calc> ah i must just not see him much since i don't have net access at work
[04:02] <thully> yes - but as a browser Firefox seems to be the better choice - Konqueror could still be there for file management, though
[04:02] <calc> jdub: oh yea
[04:05] <thully> Also, has the kdesu sudo issue been handled in KDE 3.4?
[04:05] <Riddell> thully: that's on my schedule for tomorrow
[04:06] <jdub> thully: probably best to take these questions to #ubuntu or #kubuntu
[04:07] <thully> one more idea for kubuntu - use something like geramik or gtk-qt-engine to make the GTK apps look better in KDE
[04:07] <jdub> thully: #kubuntu is the right place :)
[04:07] <calc> port ClearLooks to KDE
[04:07] <calc> keramik is vile on anything
[04:08] <calc> and 3.4 uses plastik anyway
[04:08] <thully> I just thought this had to do with Ubuntu development, as this deals with package choices and development of Ubuntu
[04:08] <jdub> thully: the kubuntu developers maintain kde
[04:08] <Amaranth> lets seem if totem crashes loading jdub's TV show again :)
[04:08] <jdub> Amaranth: it's off
[04:08] <Amaranth> oh
[04:09] <thully> well, anything is better than just seeing GTK themes on KDE
[04:09] <Amaranth> does kubuntu use gtk-qt?
[04:09] <Riddell> Amaranth: not currently, it's a good idea though
[04:11] <jdub> whiprush: http://www.metallikop.com/blog/index.php?p=60
[04:11] <jdub> whiprush: heh
[04:11] <jdub> *smack*
[04:11] <whiprush> heh
[04:12] <Amaranth> who here has seen the iTunes app talked about at http://www.advogato.org/person/rbultje/diary.html?start=90 ?
[04:12] <whiprush> he knows it isn't the default.
[04:12] <whiprush> He should embrace the nakedness.
[04:12] <jdub> lord knows we do!
[04:12] <Amaranth> if you've used it, did it play m4a preview files?
[04:12] <calc> Amaranth: i have heard rumors of one like that, that also has the feature of no DRM
[04:12] <Amaranth> if so, what did you do?
[04:12] <Amaranth> calc: It exists. ;)
[04:12] <jdub> so
[04:12] <whiprush> Everyone gets excited when it's the blonde's turn for ubuntu-calendar.
[04:13] <Amaranth> ubuntu-calendar? where is that? :)
[04:13] <jdub> i have a cool idea for anyone who wants to do a bit of gnome hacking
[04:13] <calc> Amaranth: yea i just tried encoding a file to m4a using faac and found that 1. ubuntu's faac is broken and 2. it appears faac doesn't work on amd64 anyway
[04:13] <Amaranth> calc: faad
[04:13] <Amaranth> gstreamer-faad is hopeless
[04:13] <calc> the broken bit has to do with faac not supporting encoding to mp4/m4a/etc
[04:13] <calc> Amaranth: faad spit a bunch of errors
[04:13] <jdub> make something (gnome-settings-daemon most likely) monitor the currently selected background image and/or xml file
[04:14] <jdub> so when it changes, the background refreshes
[04:14] <jdub> thus, when doing an ubuntu-calendar-* upgrade with the monthly calendar chosen, you'll get the new desktop immediately
[04:14] <Amaranth> jdub: Out of my league, I'm a pygtk hacker. :)
[04:15] <Amaranth> oh, ubuntu-calendar is a background?
[04:15] <jdub> i should blog this
[04:15] <calc> automagic pr0n updates
[04:15] <calc> Amaranth: so would you know how to make faac encode a file so that faad can decode it without errors?
[04:16] <Amaranth> calc: Nope, I'm as clueless as you.
[04:16] <calc> Amaranth: ok
[04:16] <Amaranth> Pretty sad, I helped write code that plays an m4a file with gstreamer and I can't even use it. :P
[04:16] <calc> it hasn't been updated in a long time so i wouldn't be surprised if its not 64bit clean
[04:18] <bytee> jdub: hey dude. i'm still unpacking ;)
[04:18] <whiprush> jdub: sounds like a gnome-love kind of thing.
[04:19] <bytee> btw, does ubuntu/ppc run on the PegasosPPC boxes? i've got one sitting here..
[04:19] <jbailey> bytee: You can't install it, but after you get past that, it runs. ;)
[04:20] <jbailey> bytee: I got Debian on mine, and then upgraded it to Hoary and it's my main machine now.
[04:20] <jbailey> bytee: Have to be a bit careful with the kernels.  Need to tweak the initrd settings, and I use grub2 to boot.
[04:20] <Amaranth> install something that will run on it and use their bootloader?
[04:20] <calc> Amaranth: this is what i see btw: Warning: Pulse coding not allowed in short blocks
[04:20] <jdub> bytee: yo!
[04:20] <jdub> bytee: ph#?
[04:20] <Amaranth> calc: I have no idea. :)
[04:20] <bytee> jbailey: ok. so its an installer issue. well when i get past getting fedora running on it, i'll try ubuntu
[04:20] <calc> Amaranth: ok
[04:20] <mdz> jdub: a/s/l?
[04:21] <Amaranth> calc: I'm just trying to get gstreamer to work, period. Most of the time totem and rhythmbox won't play anything (gstreamer issues) and this app won't play an m4a using gstreamer.
[04:21] <calc> -1/n/hell
[04:21] <jdub> mdz: u want 2 see my cam??!?!
[04:21] <jbailey> bytee: Sure.  I don't know if we provide debootstrap as a separate package that can be run on rpm systems, but if not, Debian does, and you can use that to install an Ubuntu system.  Not ideal, but official Pegasos support isn't due until the release after Hoary.
[04:21] <Amaranth> jdub: lugradio didn't make fun of your name, i'm surprised
[04:22] <bytee> jbailey: cool
[04:30] <jdub> Amaranth: not after i drew crop circles in their front lawns with our orbital laser platform
[04:30] <Amaranth> hehe
[04:30] <Amaranth> you cried on the phone about it before the interview? ;)
[04:31] <jdub> haha
[04:35] <bob2> lugradio seems pretty dodgy
[04:37] <Amaranth> holy shit, gstreamer-faad is working
[04:37] <tritium> warning re: evolution 2.1.6 - it forces the user to setup an email account.  A way around it is to use "None" for server type and sendmail as sender.
[04:40] <tritium> my wife (who only uses the calendar and contacts) discovered this today
[04:43] <calc> Amaranth: yea its a 64bit issue i guess, i installed the 32bit versions and it seems to work fine
[04:43] <calc> Decoding cdda.aac took:  3.73 sec. 86.52x real-time.
[04:47] <jdub> http://www.gnome.org/~jdub/blog/projects/ubuntu/1109907672
[04:47] <jdub> if anyone's interestedr
[04:49] <jbailey> jdub: Right.  What's an Ubuntu Calendar Background? =)
[04:52] <jdub> jbailey: apt-get install ubuntu-calendar
[04:52] <jdub> jbailey: not work safe
[04:52] <jdub> jbailey: ... ! :-)
[04:52] <jbailey> jdub: I'll make sure my boss isn't looking over my shoulder. ;)
[04:53] <jdub> yo Liblit
[04:54] <jdub> you were quick :)
[04:54] <Liblit> Hey, jdub.
[04:54] <Liblit> Oh, jdub == Jeff Waugh.  How 'bout that?
[04:54] <Liblit> Well, I'm sitting here sucking down Hoary CD images, so I figured I'd drop by and say hello.
[04:54] <jbailey> jdub: Ah, handy.
[04:55] <jdub> jbailey: see the recommends for more
[04:56] <jbailey> jdub: Mmm, neither of those seem to have recommends or suggests on them.
[04:56] <Amaranth> jbailey: get ubuntu-calendar-december
[04:56] <jdub> jbailey: ubuntu-calendar does
[04:57] <jdub> hrm
[04:57] <jdub> hrrrm
[04:57] <jbailey> jdub: Perhaps apt-cache is defective for me then.
[04:58] <jdub> weeeeiird
[04:58] <jdub> Recommends: ubuntu-calendar-october, ubuntu-calendar-november, ubuntu-calendar-december, ubuntu-calendar-january. ubuntu-calendar-february, ubuntu-calendar, march
[04:58] <jdub> that's in debian/control
[04:59] <Amaranth> not in the deb :)
[04:59] <tritium> so, by calendar, you can tell what month it is by the image?
[04:59] <Amaranth> not as far as i can see
[05:00] <tritium> (if you learn to associate an image with a month)
[05:00] <jdub> aha
[05:03] <tritium> mdz, I saw mythtv-frontend in the UniversePackageWithoutDesktopFile wiki page, along with other multiverse packages.
[05:04] <tritium> are multiverse packages okay to work on?
[05:07] <mdz> tritium: if that's a legal question, I can't advise you
[05:07] <mdz> Liblit: hello
[05:07] <Liblit> mdz: Howdy.
[05:08] <Liblit> mdz: Thought I'd come by and say hello while waiting for the Hoary CD images to come down my DSL pipe.
[05:08] <mdz> Liblit: ubuntu or kubuntu?
[05:08] <Liblit> Umm, what's kubuntu?
[05:09] <mdz> heh
[05:09] <mdz> we just announced a preliminary test image today; it's rather new
[05:09] <mdz> an Ubuntu derivative with a KDE desktop rather than Gnome
[05:09] <tritium> mdz, okay...well from your perspective, should multiverse packages be removed from that page, or would you welcome contributed .desktop files for multiverse packages?
[05:09] <Liblit> OK, I suppose that was obvious enough.  :-)
[05:10] <jdub> Liblit: Ubuntu... with a K! :)
[05:10] <Liblit> jdub: :-D
[05:10] <mdz> tritium: from my perspective as an Ubuntu developer, I would like to see proper .desktop files for most everything which is not installed by default
[05:11] <Liblit> mdz: Well, in answer to your question: Ubuntu, not Kubuntu.  I happen to be partial to GNOME.
[05:11] <jdub> where most everything == stuff that will be of direct interest to graphical desktop users :)
[05:11] <mdz> Liblit: as am I, but to each his own ;-)
[05:11] <mdz> it's a good step
[05:12] <Liblit> mdz: Agreed.  Let a thousand desktops bloom.
[05:12] <mdz> jdub: :-P desktop apps
[05:12] <jdub> mdz: and none of this pseudo tv business! ;)
[05:12] <jdub> i really should try mythtv soon
[05:12] <jdub> are the latest releases cool for dvb?
[05:12] <tritium> okay, just trying to get some guidance from you before I try to help.  Perhaps I'll not touch mythtv-frontend
[05:13] <mdz> jdub: we ain't got no dvb in 'merica
[05:13] <jdub> tritium: hold on, i'm kidding, it might be appropriate :)
[05:13] <tritium> jdub, I'm here :)
[05:13] <zul> *pphfft* americans :)
[05:13] <jdub> mdz: so if i put a dvb enabled box in front of you at UDU... :)
[05:14] <mdz> a .desktop file for mythtv-frontend would be an entirely appropriate thing to have
[05:14] <mdz> jdub: I'll stare right through it?
[05:14] <mdz> like the mad zombie that I will be?
[05:14] <jdub> ok, don't leave burn marks or anything
[05:14] <mdz> it'll be like the first week and the second week of an Ubuntu conference combined
[05:17] <zul> i wouldnt mind some of the bof at the conference to be online
[05:17] <zul> for those who cant make it
[05:18] <tritium> mdz, I started to take a look at one, anyway.
[05:20] <zul> anyways im going to bed
[05:20] <zul> night
[05:33] <hiweed> hey all, would you please tell me, who is resonsible for Ubuntu's Debian-CD package? I made a local ubuntu mirror( hoary/i386 only) and build a hoary-base iso using the debian-cd package downloaded from http://archive.ubuntu.com/cdimage/code/debian-cd.tar.bz2, but got a `kernel panic' error.
[05:35] <hiweed> error screen shot: http://linux.hiweed.com/images/tmp/kernel-panic.png
[05:45] <Liblit> hiweed: I have nothing useful to tell you, but I've got to ask: how did you take that screen shot?
[05:46] <zul> hiweed: it cant find your boot block
[05:47] <hiweed> I took that screen shot using VMware
[05:48] <hiweed> the same error ocurred under qemu, too.
[05:50] <hiweed> zul: thx. so I wondered what I had done wrong.
[05:51] <tritium> mako, how do you prefer to receive signed codes of conduct?
[05:53] <Liblit> hiweed: Aah, OK.  Thanks.
[05:54] <hiweed> Liblit: nop :)
[06:17] <sivang> morning all
[06:18] <calc> hmm i see a few weeks ago ppl were ranting about gnome icons on ddl
[06:19] <calc> are the icons they are talking about the ones in ubuntu as well?
[06:24] <jdub> which icons?
[06:24] <calc> the ones that people were saying were ugly (the default gnome ones)
[06:25] <jdub> those people are stupid
[06:25] <Amaranth> jdub: splash look awesome
[06:25] <calc> it seems if its not at least as cartoony as keramik everaldo doesn't like it
[06:25] <Amaranth> when will ubuntu get it in 2.9? :)
[06:25] <jdub> the only suboptimal thing about the gnome icons is a few palette problems
[06:25] <jdub> Amaranth: ubuntu has it's own splash
[06:26] <Amaranth> :/
[06:26] <jdub> Amaranth: but i imagine the file will be available in the next gnome-session upgrade
[06:34] <jdub> Riddell: around?
[06:37] <jdub> $ lsb_release
[06:37] <jdub> LSB Version:    n/a
[06:43] <daniels> jdub: you lie
[06:43] <jdub> daniels: i do
[06:44] <jdub> smelly hiding daniels!
[06:51] <jdub> daniels: i think the fixes in 0.23.[12]  are worth it
[06:51] <jdub> daniels: plus, beagle.
[06:53] <daniels> jdub: mmm ... but if we break other dbus apps?
[06:54] <jdub> via semantics changes?
[06:54] <jdub> s/cs/c
[06:55] <daniels> yeah
[06:55] <daniels> that's what I'm most concerned about
[07:04] <whiprush> inotify pretty much out for hoary at this point?
[07:05] <jdub> whiprush: it's in, but not turned on by default
[07:29] <sivang> jdub: do you know if there is a ready made GtkMessageDialog that returns a value accoridng to what the user clicked or must I use callbacks ?
[07:34] <jdub> sivang: zenity. ;-)
[07:34] <jdub> kinda different programming environment, of course.
[07:34] <jdub> not sure.
[07:34] <jdub> #gtk-devel or #gnome-hackers
[07:34] <jdub> er, sorry
[07:34] <jdub> #gtk+ or #gnome-hackers
[07:36] <sivang> jdub: ah right :) thanks alot anyways!
[07:40] <whiprush> jdub: Clearlooks olive on a chocolate background is awesome. To whom shall I make the bribery check to?
[07:46] <jdub> whiprush: Richard Stellingwerff and Daniel Borgmann :-)
[07:46] <whiprush> heh
[08:16] <svenl> daniels: ...
[08:16] <svenl> daniels: you still there ?
[08:20] <sivang> jdub: muntyan helped me :)
[08:20] <sivang> jdub: on $gtk+
[08:20] <sivang> jdub: we almost have one click enable ipp browsing support :)
[08:22] <dholbach> hai
[08:23] <sivang> hey dholbach
[08:23] <dholbach> hi sivan!
[08:26] <jdub> sivang: rad
[08:27] <sivang> jdub:  :)
[08:27] <dholbach> tell pitti and jbailey, they rock, when they come, ok? i'm just out with my dog :-)
[08:27] <sivang> hey dholbach :)
[08:37] <doko> morning all
[08:41] <sivang> morning doko
[08:45] <pitti> Morning
[08:45] <crimsun> morn'
[08:47] <sivang> pitti: morning!
[08:47] <sivang> pitti: I'm preparing patches, and a debdiff :-)
[08:48] <sivang> pitti: couple of API reading, asking here and there, and we have a very nice result I think :-)
[09:05] <pitti> mdz: here=
[09:05] <pitti> s/=/?/ (grr)
[09:06] <sivang> pitti: http://muse.19inch.net/~sivan/g-c-m_browse_support.debdiff :-)
[09:06] <sivang> pitti: btw, could you tell me what is the service that needs restarting as well as cupsys to make the printers appear?
[09:06] <sivang> pitti: (I might try add that later)
[09:07] <pitti> sivang: I'm already working at that
[09:07] <pitti> sivang: it's a bug in g-c-m
[09:07] <pitti> sivang: it works if you have a local printer in addition :-)
[09:07] <dholbach> hi pitti
[09:07] <dholbach> pitti: you rock!
[09:07] <pitti> Hi dholbach
[09:07] <pitti> dholbach: I do?
[09:08] <pitti> cdbs-edit-patch?
[09:08] <dholbach> pitti: thanks for working on CDBS *big smile*
[09:08] <pitti> no worries :-)
[09:08] <dholbach> :-D
[09:08] <pitti> I'm using it for myself a lot, too
[09:08] <sivang> pitti: what's the bug number?
[09:09] <sivang> dholbach: I also used pitti's cdbs-edit-path today :)
[09:09] <pitti> sivang: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=168881
[09:09] <sivang> pitti: thanks
[09:11] <kagou> hi
[09:14] <sivang> pitti: strange bug
[09:18] <kagou> i have somes ideas for the live cd ....
[09:19] <kagou> I'v tested Slax/PClinuxOS/Live+ and hoary
[09:19] <kagou> Hoary rocks with my wifi card
[09:19] <kagou> but the look of gnome instead kde look of others distro is not pretty
[09:20] <kagou> I think that the applet for keyboard selection must be installed by default with some layout (fr/de/ ...)
[09:20] <kagou> and network manager applet must be loaded too
[09:21] <kagou> May be the utilisation of gdesklets in the live cd can render the hoary live look more pretty
[09:25] <zenrox> kagou,  the live cd is ment to run on all cpus even the little ones gdeklets and extra applets will slow the thang down
[09:26] <kagou> zenrox, it was just an idea for the look
[09:27] <Treenaks> talk about useful changelog entries:
[09:27] <Treenaks>     - renamed prep-boot PReP boot partition name to prep.
[09:28] <kagou> zenrox, what do you think about my ideas for applets ?
[09:29] <jdub> kagou: we don't ship one yet
[09:29] <jdub> kagou: it will most likely be on by default in the release after hoary
[09:30] <kagou> thnx jdub :)
[09:48] <sivang> morning sabdfl
[09:52] <svenl> Mmm, seems that the YDL ddcprobe code in their Xautoconfig works on pegasos, while the one in xresprobe fails :/
[10:04] <sabdfl> svenl: send that code off to daniels, he might be able to figure out what's needed in xresprobe
[10:04] <svenl> sabdfl: yep, i tried to speak to him directly, and i filled #7144 yesterday, but i guess we are too far in timezones or something, we might be able to figure that out ourselves, i think.
[10:05] <svenl> sabdfl: xresprobe radeon only outputs the disptype right now, so this is why it fails, i think
[10:05] <svenl> There is no man page for xresprobe though :/
[10:17] <sabdfl> daniels: also, fglrx is still not happy with xorg 6.8.2 on my PCI Express X800
[10:28] <Kamion> morning
[10:28] <dholbach> hi Kamion
[10:28] <mvo> hey Kamion, hey dholbach
[10:28] <dholbach> hai mvo
[10:29] <dholbach> mvo: i'll be back at home this afternoon, any plans for tonight yet? :-)
[10:29] <mvo> Kamion: did you recovered a bit from the array marathon?
[10:29] <mvo> dholbach: I play hockey tonight ... but after that :)
[10:29] <dholbach> mvo: what about the mv-guy?
[10:29] <Kamion> mvo: slightly; I plan to take this afternoon off in exchange (cleared with mdz)
[10:29] <Kamion> still rather worn out
[10:30] <mvo> Kamion: yeah! do that, it will be good :)
[10:30] <jdub> mvo: have you noticed that update-notifier puts phantom spacing into the notification area?
[10:31] <mvo> jdub: not really yet. is there a way to reproduce it?
[10:32] <mvo> dholbach: let's phone when you back from your trip?
[10:33] <dholbach> mvo: alright
[10:35] <sabdfl> smurfix: are you around for a meeting with mako, jdub & me later?
[10:39] <dholbach> bye everyone, see you later
[10:40] <sivang> c'ya dholbach
[10:40] <dholbach> bye sivan
[10:41] <sivang> going to get some sleep, laterz all
[10:42] <pitti> sleep well, sivang
[10:45] <Kamion> ok, let's see if this morning's kubuntu CD installs cleanly
[11:09] <doko> who's reviewing patches, which should go to hoary? email to ubuntu-devel?
[11:09] <Mithrandir> seb128: is it known that the location selector in the weather applet is broken?
[11:10] <seb128> should be fixed is yesterday's upload
[11:10] <seb128> what is broken now ?
[11:10] <pitti> seb128: works fine for me :-)
[11:11] <seb128> :)
[11:11] <mvo> works for me too
[11:11] <Mithrandir> seb128: let me run an update, then, and I'll see
[11:11] <seb128> k
[11:12] <Mithrandir> I mean, I haven't updated in 12 hours, so it might be fixed. :)
[11:12] <seb128> that's fixed in 0ubuntu2 for gnome-applets
[11:13] <Mithrandir> yeah, seems fixed.
[11:15] <ajmitch> seb128: gnome-backgrounds has a conflicting file with ubuntu-artwork, btw
[11:15] <seb128> known
[11:15] <ajmitch> great
[11:16] <Kamion> doko: for preview freeze, clear with mdz/jdub I believe
[11:18] <sabdfl> Kamion: unexpected glimpse of a question about changing debconf priorities before reboot on last nights daily... should i file a bug?
[11:19] <Kamion> sabdfl: yes please, include /var/log/*; that sounds like it fell off the end of the normal menu
[11:19] <Kamion> /var/log/installer/* rather, I guess you've rebooted
[11:19] <sabdfl> k willdo
[11:20] <Kamion> today's kubuntu daily is fine in that regard, and should be the same ...
[11:20] <sabdfl> kubuntu!
[11:20] <pitti> sabdfl: do you know that "kubuntu" sounds in German like "colorful cow"?
[11:20] <Kamion> haha
[11:21] <jdub> ha ha
[11:21] <d3vic3> hahaha
[11:21] <sabdfl> moo hic?
[11:21] <Kamion> kbuntu
[11:21] <pitti> mooobuntu
[11:21] <seb128_> grumpf, dsl hangup
[11:21] <sabdfl> ok, we get to leave bouncing cow in that one
[11:21] <pitti> seb128welcome back
[11:21] <seb128_> :)
[11:22] <pitti> wherehasmyspacekeygone?
[11:24] <pitti> bah, debugging sucks today
[11:24] <pitti> any gdb experts here?
[11:24] <pitti> Program received signal SIGTRAP, Trace/breakpoint trap.
[11:24] <pitti> [Switching to Thread -1233482832 (LWP 17121)]
[11:24] <pitti> 0xb79cd58e in __nptl_death_event () from /lib/tls/i686/cmov/libpthread.so.0
[11:24] <pitti> impossible to debug a program with this :-(
[11:33] <d3vic3> seb128_,  trying to overwrite `/usr/share/icons/hicolor/48x48/apps/gnome-run.png', which is also in package gnome-panel-data
[11:34] <seb128_> what package is that ?
[11:34] <d3vic3> seb128, gnome-icon-theme_2.9.92-0ubuntu1_all.deb
[11:35] <seb128> and gnome-panel-data ?
[11:35] <d3vic3> yes
[11:36] <seb128> no
[11:36] <seb128> what version
[11:37] <mvo> seb128: can eggtrayicon have a transparent background? I got a bugreport that update-notifer looks "grayish" when the panel is set to a transparent background.
[11:37] <Treenaks> mvo: just use a transparent png?
[11:38] <seb128> mvo: dunno how the notify area handles transparent backgrounds
[11:38] <d3vic3> seb128, doesn't say, I thinks its the latest becouse I'm trying to upgrade
[11:38] <mvo> Treenaks: the background of the icon is set to transparent
[11:38] <pitti> mvo: btw, what should this icon represent? it is too small for the relatively complex graphics
[11:38] <seb128> d3vic3: $ dpkg -L gnome-panel-data | grep gnome-run
[11:38] <seb128> $
[11:38] <rburton> mvo: i think there are hacky patches in bugzilla to make that work
[11:38] <seb128> d3vic3: I don't get this file here, what version ?
[11:39] <mvo> pitti: draw a better one? seriously, jdub told me that the artist who draws icons for us has the update-notifier icon on it's list
[11:40] <pitti> mvo: ah, good to know :-) but what _is_ it currently?
[11:40] <d3vic3> seb128, 2.9.90-0ubuntu1
[11:40] <mvo> pitti: it's a scaled down version of the current synaptic icon :)
[11:40] <seb128> d3vic3: update to 2.9.92
[11:40] <d3vic3> ok
[11:40] <pitti> mvo: aha :-)
[11:41] <jordi> mvo: did strings change since my last update?
[11:41] <jordi> I found a typo anyway
[11:42] <mvo> jordi: don't think so, synaptic is string-froozen. you are allowed to slap me if they did
[11:43] <jordi> mvo: kewl
[11:44] <Treenaks> mvo: don't worry, he's out of shape :P
[11:44] <mvo> jdub: any news from the person that draws the icons for us? people complain about the ugly update-notifier icon :)
[11:44] <jordi> I've lost two kilos in the last two weeks or so
[11:44] <mvo> Treenaks: I guess he's still in _far_ better shape than most other people :)
[11:44] <jordi> fuck fuck fuck
[11:44] <ajmitch> hey jordi
[11:44] <jordi> alsa-utils upload b0rjed
[11:44] <jordi> borked even
[11:45] <seb128> jdub: this about GNOME entry rocks :)
[11:45] <jordi> damn ISP, closed my link
[11:45] <jordi> ajmitch: hi andrew
[11:45] <mvo> rburton: you don't have a bugnumber for the transparent thing by chance :) ?
[11:45] <rburton> mvo: sorry. iirc it was mentioned on d-d-l recently
[11:46] <mvo> rburton: I found something in bugzilla.g.o (no patch, but still :)
[11:47] <pitti> yay
[11:47] <mvo> pitti: is this the stuff that shivang was working on? the gksudo problem ?
[11:47] <pitti> mvo: related
[11:48] <pitti> mvo: if you only have one printer and restart cupsys, then g-c-m does not display your printers any more
[11:48] <pitti> mvo: that's the bug I chased now
[11:48] <mvo> pitti: cool!
[11:48] <pitti> mvo: sivang works on a frontend for enabling/disabling cupsys browsing
[11:48] <pitti> mvo: if we have that, handling IPP printers is really easy
[11:49] <mvo> pitti: yeah! how is his progress?
[11:49] <pitti> mvo: I already made the necessary cupsys backend changes, so it's only a matter of some gtk code
[11:49] <pitti> mvo: sivan's patch works in general, but I had some nitpicks :-)
[11:49] <pitti> mvo: he will continue it later/tomorrow
[11:50] <pitti> mvo: -> nothing for preview maybe, but for final
[11:50] <mvo> pitti: ok
[11:50] <mvo> pitti: nice :)
[11:50] <pitti> we really need to improve printing support...
[11:53] <thom> 8.770  (4694.9 MB up / 535.3 MB down) (kubuntu live on my bittorrent client since last night)
[11:53] <Kamion> where is \ on a German console keymap?
[11:53] <pitti> Kamion: AltGr+
[11:53] <pitti> Kamion: that's the key right of '0'
[11:53] <Kamion> where is ? :-)
[11:53] <Kamion> oh, thanks
[11:54] <thom> Kamion: d'you wanna generate a torrent for the kubuntu installer?
[11:59] <jdub> mvo: next icon drop :)
[12:01] <mvo> jdub: great, can't wait :)
[12:01] <Kamion> thom: it's only a daily, but sure
[12:02] <Kamion> whoa, I confused cdebconf lots
[12:02] <Kamion> it won't let me delete the full name in passwd.config now
[12:03] <thom> Kamion: (mdz and i got the daily live torrent up last night)
[12:03] <Kamion> yeah, I saw
[12:08] <Kamion> thom: done
[12:10] <Micksa> does gnome (or whatever) have some sort of pop-up-notification app?
[12:10] <jdub> not really
[12:10] <jdub> what for?
[12:10] <jdub> depends what you need
[12:11] <jdub> ooh, gaim just crashed
[12:11] <Micksa> anything :)
[12:11] <jdub> ...
[12:11] <Micksa> like, one that you could configure to notify you of whatever
[12:11] <jdub> do you want it to just randomly pop up notifications for no reason?
[12:11] <Treenaks> Micksa: evolution
[12:11] <jdub> if you want something that notifies about appointments, use evo
[12:12] <jdub> if you want something to do the popping up, use zenity (for shell scripting)
[12:12] <Micksa> man, I so gotta write an app for this
[12:12] <Micksa> THEN I WILL HAVE MY FAME AND FORTUNE
[12:13] <ajmitch> I thought you had to be a MOTU for fame & fortune? :)
[12:13] <jdub> WARNING: SALES PITCH IN PROGRESS
[12:13] <Treenaks> ajmitch: no, that's only the fame part
[12:13] <ogra> ajmitch, yes, you have ;) morning guys
[12:13] <ajmitch> Treenaks: true, I haven't seen much fortune coming in :)
[12:13] <ajmitch> morning ogra
[12:14] <ogra> Micksa: if you only want something to pop up, have a look at zenity
[12:14] <ajmitch> jdub: we're always trying to recruit..
[12:14] <Kamion> jdub: ok to upload https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/attachment.cgi?id=1509 for #668?
[12:15] <jdub> Kamion: sure :-)
[12:15] <ajmitch> ogra: gnomebaker would be fine to review if the person had supplied a source package :)
[12:16] <ogra> heh
[12:16] <mvo> lifeless: could you please check if #5412 (aptitude wants to remove running kernel) when you do your next upgrade? I believe it is fixed with the current aptitude version in hoary (not urgent, I'm just fostering my buglist right now)
[12:16] <ogra> its a warty package anyway, if i understood it right
[12:16] <ajmitch> ogra: I doubt there'd be much warty-specific stuff in the package except versioning, perhaps
[12:17] <lifeless> mvo: yeah, will do.
[12:17] <ogra> ajmitch, without a source its only a warty package ;)
[12:18] <mvo> lifeless: great, thanks :)
[12:18] <ajmitch> ogra: there are probably a few more package requests in the list archives that haven't made it onto the wiki
[12:19] <ogra> ajmitch: hmm, do you think we need an additional announcement for UniveseCandidates ?
[12:19] <ogra> +r
[12:19] <ajmitch> possibly
[12:19] <ajmitch> or we could trawl the archives for requests
[12:20] <ogra> its been mentioned quite often...
[12:20] <ajmitch> hi doko
[12:22] <doko> ajmitch: hi
[12:23] <sabdfl> is postgresql not in main?
[12:24] <Kamion> shadow (1:4.0.3-30.7ubuntu10) hoary; urgency=low
[12:24] <Kamion>   * Never generate invalid default usernames (part of Ubuntu #668).
[12:24] <Kamion>  -- Colin Watson<EMAIL_ADDRESS>Fri,  4 Mar 2005 11:09:13 +0000
[12:24] <Kamion> oops
[12:24] <Treenaks> sabdfl: it was in warty
[12:24] <Kamion> cjwatson@rookery:~$ madison-lite postgresql
[12:24] <Kamion> postgresql |    7.4.5-3 |    warty/main | source, amd64, i386, powerpc
[12:24] <Kamion> postgresql | 7.4.5-3ubuntu0.4 | warty-security/main | source, amd64, i386, powerpc
[12:24] <Kamion> postgresql | 7.4.7-2ubuntu2 |    hoary/main | source, amd64, i386, ia64, powerpc
[12:24] <sabdfl> interesting
[12:24] <sabdfl> it's not appearing on mpt's brand new hoary
[12:24] <sabdfl> in synaptic
[12:24] <sabdfl> any idea why?
[12:25] <Kamion> did he answer "no" to "download packages from the internet"?
[12:25] <Kamion> or did something go wrong in the second stage? I do know of one base-config bug in that area, that got introduced in the process of #6390
[12:29] <mpt_london> Kamion: I didn't answer "no" to anything like that, but I think Mark did (if you mean during the install)
[12:29] <sabdfl> yes, he answered no :-)
[12:30] <sabdfl> Kamion: we should still enable network sources in apt.sources, even if the user doesn't do it right away
[12:36] <sabdfl> Kamion: should i file a bug on that behaviour?
[12:37] <sabdfl> any idea where postgresql-contrib has gone for hoary?
[12:38] <ajmitch> sabdfl: universe, it seems
[12:38] <thom> Kamion: torrents running for kubuntu installer
[12:41] <Riddell> jdub: around now
[12:41] <jdub> sabdfl: mdz and i had a long discussion about this
[12:42] <jdub> sabdfl: came to the conclusion that it is desireable behaviour, but not until the tools improve
[12:42] <sabdfl> jdub: please put a bof on that topic onto the list for UDU
[12:42] <jdub> cool
[12:43] <sabdfl> Kamion: what's your thought on enabling the network apt sources list irrespective?
[12:43] <Kamion> 11:30 < sabdfl> Kamion: we should still enable network sources in apt.sources, even if the user doesn't do it right away
[12:44] <Kamion> that's what we do, if you answer "yes"; the network is not used now *during* the installation, just set up for after it (and for language packs etc.)
[12:44] <Kamion> sabdfl: mdz and I talked about that, and mdz felt that apt was not currently up to that
[12:44] <Kamion> sabdfl: if you try that without a network, you get lots of error messages all the time
[12:45] <Kamion> we should do better later, but I think the current behaviour (modulo base-config doing a slightly better job of cleaning up when stuff goes wrong) is about the best we can do for hoary
[12:45] <Kamion> #6390 is a general bug about all of this
[12:46] <Kamion> wow, something really made netboot astoundingly unhappy
[12:46] <Kamion> INPUT <anything> / GO to debconf returns "100 problem"
[12:47] <ajmitch> night all
[12:47] <dredg> night ajmitch
[12:47] <dredg> have a good weekend :)
[12:48] <Kamion> jdub: hmm
[12:48] <Kamion> jdub: would there be a problem with forcing "yes" to that apt-setup question if a network is available?
[12:49] <jdub> Kamion: one for mdz
[12:49] <Kamion> jdub: I think the previous discussion was more about forcing "yes" to it regardless, which won't work yet
[12:49] <sabdfl> night aj
[12:49] <jdub> i'd lean to yes
[12:49] <sabdfl> mitch
[12:49] <Kamion> ah, in fact that appears to be what I intended to go on to do, reviewing #6390
[12:50] <Kamion> I'll try to get that sorted for preview
[12:52] <Keybuk> thom: you made a mistake in the rpm packages ... it should be spelt "d. p. k. g."
[12:52] <thom> say what?
[12:55] <thom> i have tea, i still have no clue if you're joking or what
[12:55] <Keybuk> I'm joking :)
[12:56] <mpt_london> thom, sabdfl says I need a chinstrap account, pretty please
[12:56] <thom> goodo, i'll go back to ignoring you then :P
[12:56] <thom> mpt_london: https://wiki.canonical.com/NewStaffTasks
[12:56] <thom> mpt_london: specifically, the email you need to send
[12:57] <mpt_london> ah, which first requires sabdfl to sign my gpg key
[12:57] <mpt_london> ok, thanks
[12:58] <thom> np
[01:00] <jdub> seb128: do you see "Desktop Folder|Desktop" in Places?
[01:01] <rburton> when keeping stuff in arch do people use arch-tag in source, or just rely on explicit ids?
[01:02] <Kamion> I much prefer explicit
[01:02] <Kamion> arch-tag is cute but you can't use it on all files, so better to be able to be consistent
[01:03] <rburton> i bow to your superior judgement
[01:03] <Kamion> my judgement is not superior where arch is concerned :-)
[01:03] <rburton> ha
[01:03] <Kamion> just MHO
[01:03] <T-Bone> hey Kamion :)
[01:03] <Kamion> morning T-Bone
[01:04] <T-Bone> Mithrandir: ia64? :)
[01:04] <sabdfl> rburton: policy in launchpad is always explicit, never arch-tag
[01:05] <Mithrandir> T-Bone: nah, not 10h too early, more like five or six.  I'm trying to hack a bit on multiarch first.
[01:05] <Mithrandir> T-Bone: 1700-ish UTC is fine
[01:06] <Kamion> netboot breakage reproduced in a chroot, now I stand a chance of debugging it
[01:06] <T-Bone> Mithrandir: roger that
[01:06] <T-Bone> i'll see if someone can help me with the firefox issue in the meantime
[01:06] <T-Bone> that one is particularly strange
[01:09] <sabdfl> jdub: evince is very nice
[01:09] <sabdfl> any reason not to replace xpdf for hoary?
[01:10] <jdub> sabdfl: it's very new
[01:10] <pitti> sabdfl: it sucks for big documents
[01:11] <jdub> sabdfl: veeeery new
[01:11] <sabdfl> 0.1.5
[01:11] <sabdfl> nice clean gnomish ui
[01:11] <sabdfl> bendy? breezy?
[01:11] <jdub> sabdfl: there's an element of boring and rigid that must be seen to. :-)
[01:11] <jdub> definitely bendy
[01:11] <sabdfl> true
[01:11] <jdub> it will be in gnome 2.12
[01:11] <pitti> although it is great for translating
[01:12] <jdub> and under release process guidance, etc.
[01:12] <jordi> pitti: how big?
[01:12] <jdub> pitti: lots of strings to translate! :)
[01:12] <jdub> sabdfl: that said, i am *very* tempted.
[01:12] <pitti> jordi: I tried it with my friend's diploma thesis (153 pages) and it took four minutes to process it
[01:12] <jordi> from the Catalan POV... evince is ready to go :)
[01:12] <pitti> jordi: during that time, it was completely unresponsive and I killed it (I thought it was crashed)
[01:12] <jordi> pitti: many images?
[01:12] <Treenaks> jordi: ... for now
[01:12] <jordi> pitti: the LliureX manual is ~400 and it's reasonable
[01:12] <pitti> jordi: the problem is the thumbnail preview generation
[01:13] <jordi> pitti: it takes a bit the first time as it generates thumbnails
[01:13] <pitti> http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=165413
[01:13] <pitti> http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=166825
[01:13] <pitti> ^ these _suck_
[01:13] <jordi> weird, it was reasonable here with 400 pages
[01:13] <pitti> but if these are settled, evince is really great
[01:13] <jordi> ok 166825 is bad :)
[01:14] <pitti> jordi: try with http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/diplom.pdf
[01:14] <jordi> 1 min
[01:14] <rburton> argh baz die die die
[01:15] <jordi> pitti: definitely not unresponsive here
[01:15] <jordi> a lot faster than the manual
[01:15] <jdub> pitti: pulls a chunk of cpu :)
[01:15] <jdub> pitti: but not horrific
[01:15] <jordi> but my work box is pretty ok though
[01:15] <pitti> jordi: it should process the images in the background with a lower cpu usage
[01:15] <jdub> yeah
[01:15] <pitti> jordi: for me evice gets completely unresponsive
[01:15] <mvo> works pretty ok here too
[01:16] <pitti> you guys have too fast computers...
[01:16] <pitti> :-)
[01:16] <jordi> heh
[01:16] <jordi> only 256 megs of ram
[01:16] <mvo> 1Ghz :)
[01:16] <jordi> whoever built my office box was on crack
[01:16] <pitti> hmm, then it's odd
[01:16] <jordi> 2.6ghz with 256 megs of ram
[01:16] <pitti> I've a celeron 1.3
[01:16] <pitti> s/celeron/duron/
[01:17] <thom> pitti: it took longer to download diplom.pdf than it did for evince to thumbnail and render it
[01:17] <pitti> I'm confused
[01:17] <jbailey> jdub: Are you a person to talk to about if a patch is important enough for the preview or not, or does it need to wait for mdz?
[01:17] <pitti> why does it work for everybody but me?
[01:17] <jordi> mvo: yeah, evince is something we badly needed.
[01:17] <jdub> jbailey: both, but i often defer to mdz on rough ones
[01:18] <jordi> next, marco needs to work on database management ui. :)
[01:18] <pitti> thom: it's okay for the first 5 seconds, then it completely hangs
[01:18] <thom> pitti: this is on a 3Ghz+ amd64 with a gb of ram though
[01:18] <jordi> thom: offt
[01:18] <pitti> now it uses 100% cpu and does not react to clicks or keypresses at all
[01:18] <jordi> thom: pfft even.  Do you think you'd have some time to give it another shot?
[01:19] <mvo> jordi: what does it use to render pdf?
[01:19] <jdub> xpdf
[01:19] <jbailey> jdub: 6562 pppoe problems with weird usernames that are apparently common in .de.  I've reviewed the diff from Debian and it's just the patch +PO changes for English.  I'd like to just request a sync of it and be done with it.  Is that doable or do I need to patch it by hand (assuming it's approved)
[01:19] <jdub> the newly forked fdo one
[01:19] <mvo> cooolll
[01:19] <jordi> jdub: is there anything good in that fork already?
[01:20] <jdub> jordi: good chunk of the cairo renderer :)
[01:20] <jdub> jordi: bunch of bugfixes from gpdf and kpdf
[01:20] <martink> jordi, do you know the secret behind marco's success?
[01:20] <martink> jordi, he's on dialup
[01:20] <martink> 0.1.5 doesn't use the forked renderer, that's in 0.1.6
[01:21] <jdub> didn't 0.1.6 just go in?
[01:21] <jdub> oh, no, that was f-r-l
[01:21] <T-Bone> thom: actually i'm pretty much convinced it is not a firefox bug (or else it has been there for age). I've been able to reproduce with 1.2 and 1.6
[01:21] <jdub> jbailey: sync for that is fine
[01:22] <thom> T-Bone: 1.2? firefox is only at 1.0; i guess you mean mozilla?
[01:22] <jbailey> jdub: Cool.  From whom do I request it?
[01:22] <T-Bone> thom: sorry, i meant 1-2 and 1-6
[01:22] <seb128> jdub: nop, I need to package the fdo xpdf, we don't have it in the archive atm
[01:22] <jdub> jbailey: elmo, cc mdz and myself
[01:22] <jbailey> jdub: Thx.
[01:22] <jdub> seb128: ok, rad
[01:22] <T-Bone> thom: packages from debian sarge and sid, installed on hoary
[01:22] <thom> and they do the same? hrm
[01:23] <T-Bone> thom: yeah. And as i explained, this only happens when registering a locale pack
[01:23] <T-Bone> thom: if you don't install a locale pack, update-chrome works flawlessly, as well as firefox
[01:23] <T-Bone> thom: so i was wondering whether we may have strange bits in our locale packs
[01:23] <pitti> T-Bone: btw, I fixed ffox language packs wrt update-chrome yesterday
[01:24] <T-Bone> pitti: ah! lemme check that
[01:24] <thom> pitti: "fixed"?
[01:24] <pitti> thom: the locale packages did not check whether update-chrome was available before calling it
[01:25] <pitti> thom: we lost that patch in the m-f-locale-all source package transition
[01:25] <thom> oh, not interesting to this problem then; k
[01:25] <pitti> T-Bone: dunno if that is the bug you mean
[01:25] <T-Bone> pitti: yeah I think so
[01:26] <T-Bone> err "don't"
[01:26] <jdub> thom: you still have font rendering problems in ff?
[01:26] <T-Bone> thom: there wouldn't be some kind of s3cr3t dependencies on language-support, from mozilla locales (just a thought)?
[01:27] <jba> jdub, you're still up and at home on a friday night?
[01:27] <thom> jdub: none at all
[01:28] <jba> hehe
[01:28] <jdub> jba: when the cat's away, the mice will play :)
[01:28] <jdub> thom: gar.
[01:28] <jba> hehe, well i have a baby now, so i can't go out :)
[01:28] <thom> T-Bone: if so, then we'd see the problem everywhere, not just ia64
[01:29] <T-Bone> thom: that's not what i meant: ia64 doesn't have language support. Maybe that's the source of problems?
[01:29] <jba> jdub, i don't suppose you're a grub guru?
[01:29] <T-Bone> thom: fwiw, i couldn't reproduce this on Debian
[01:29] <jdub> just a grub
[01:29] <jba> drats
[01:30] <jba> can you finger any resident ubuntu grub guru's around here for me to nag?
[01:30] <thom> T-Bone: oh, hrm
[01:30] <thom> it's possible i guess
[01:31] <jba> am trying to install ubuntu (hoary array 3) on my second disk, disk 1 has win2k with ntldr on it
[01:31] <Treenaks> jba: try array 6
[01:31] <jba> no matter where I put grub i can't get ntldr to chain load it (using the dd boot sector peeling technique)
[01:31] <jdub> jba: easier to ask straight out to everyone
[01:32] <jdub> thom: aha
[01:32] <T-Bone> thom: if it happens to be the case we might want to add the proper dependencies to the package :)
[01:32] <jdub> thom: if you have no hinting on
[01:32] <jdub> thom: all hell breaks loose in text areas such as ubuntu bugzilla's
[01:32] <T-Bone> thom: we'll have to wait for Mithrandir to help me with oo.o 32bit, then we should hopefully have language support on ia64
[01:32] <T-Bone> :_
[01:32] <T-Bone> (that was meant to be a smiley, sigh(
[01:33] <thom> jdub: interesting
[01:34] <jdub> thom: dissing my font preferences is not a valid fix, btw. ;-) ;-)
[01:34] <thom> jdub: i contemplated doing tha
[01:34] <thom> t
[01:34] <thom> but it's obviously unnecessary
[01:35] <maswan> jdub: Subject: Bounced message for 'gimpnet-opers'
[01:35] <maswan> User<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[01:35] <maswan>       (500) unknown user: "jdub"
[01:36] <Kamion> T-Bone: oh, BTW, I fixed the Task: ubuntu-desktop issue on ia64
[01:36] <jdub> maswan: s/jdub<EMAIL_ADDRESS>:-)
[01:36] <maswan> jdub: Ok.
[01:36] <Kamion> T-Bone: as a welcome side effect of some emergency patching I had to do for Array CD 6
[01:36] <jdub> maswan: or pop me off the list actually; there's no .au host right now
[01:36] <jdub> maswan: thanks :)
[01:36] <maswan> jdub: Ok.
[01:36] <Kamion> T-Bone: it's not fixed in the archive, but the CD images now get Task: ubuntu-desktop regenerated to match whatever they think desktop looks like
[01:36] <maswan> jdub: and you're off :)
[01:36] <mpt_london> thom: request sent
[01:37] <Kamion> works rather neatly for kubuntu-desktop, too
[01:37] <T-Bone> Kamion: so that means that it will not try to install broken stuff on ia64? :)
[01:37] <thom> mpt_london: ok; i need to hop out for a while but i'll do it as soon as i get back
[01:37] <Kamion> T-Bone: right
[01:38] <Kamion> T-Bone: it didn't anyway, because that was hacked around; but I've removed that hack now
[01:38] <thom> mpt_london: i assume it's not a total blocker for you?
[01:38] <T-Bone> Kamion: sweet! that's nice ;)
[01:38] <jba> i've been chainloading linux bootloaders with ntldr for as far back as I can remember, but for some reason i can't get it to work with ubuntu
[01:38] <jba> even had fc2 on the second disk working fine
[01:39] <jba> decided to put ubuntu on it, and now no matter which partition i install grub to, when I peel the first 512 bytes of that partition ntldr still cannot get grub to boot
[01:39] <jba> all I get is the letter "GRUB " and then nothing
[01:40] <jba> Treenaks, i plan on apt-geting up to array 6, just don't want to dl the image if i don't need to
[01:41] <T-Bone> btw, i don't know how it works on hoary since i don't have an x86, but i've spread a few copies of Warty at work and people asked me "how do i make windows the default OS?". Maybe an install-question triggered only when double boot is detected would be nice (if we don't already have it)
[01:41] <mpt_london> thom: Um, it is, actually :-)
[01:41] <jba> do i need to mark the /boot partition on the second disc with the bootable flag?
[01:42] <T-Bone> Kamion: ^^^
[01:43] <jordi> martink: woah I didn't know that
[01:43] <jordi> martink: he was on IRC before at least
[01:43] <jba> okay i'll try a different tack, is there a way to boot into a freshly installed ubuntu installation off the install cd, aka the red hat rescue cd mode ?
[01:43] <jba> at least then i could try a few different grub tricks without hacing to re-install ubuntu every time
[01:43] <jordi> martink: I guess you mean he doesn't waste time on jabber, planets and all-time sucker IRC as we do
[01:45] <Kamion> T-Bone: I'd prefer to punt that off to the desktop; isn't there a "Boot Configuration" thing in GNOME?
[01:45] <T-Bone> Kamion: dunno. You need to edit grub conf's to do that...
[01:45] <Kamion> T-Bone: yes, gnome-system-tools does that kind of thing
[01:45] <thom> mpt_london: k
[01:46] <martink> jordi, yeah, he is on IRC, but gets disconnected every other hour
[01:46] <T-Bone> Kamion: it wasn't on warty, was it?
[01:46] <mpt_london> thom: I need it to get rocketfuel going, and I need rocketfuel going to hack at the Launchpad design, which is the dirty part of my job
[01:46] <Kamion> T-Bone: me no desktop guru ;)
[01:47] <T-Bone> hehe
[01:47] <Kamion> I'm sure I did see a Boot Configuration thingy in warty though
[01:48] <T-Bone> Kamion: well it might not be clear enough, that question has been asked to me a few times
[01:49] <Kamion> jba: type "rescue", follow the prompt
[01:49] <Kamion> s
[01:50] <Kamion> jba: (at the CD's boot: prompt)
[01:51] <Kamion> T-Bone: the installer's job is to get the system on there and get out of the way as fast as possible; it's not really (in Ubuntu at least) a good place for fine customisation or detailed information dissemination
[01:51] <jba> Kamion, thanks, which array did the rescue boot option debut in ?
[01:51] <T-Bone> Kamion: sure i'm on the same line. I'm just reporting end users' questions ;)
[01:51] <Kamion> T-Bone: especially since the first boot *has* to be into Ubuntu by default in order to do the second stage
[01:52] <T-Bone> Kamion: yeah I tought of that too... OTOH the default boot OS question seemed relevant... Maybe that could be sorted out in the second stage?
[01:52] <jdub> Kamion: (it's disabled)
[01:53] <Kamion> jba: Array CD 3. Its UI really sucked until 5 though
[01:53] <Kamion> (now it only sucks a bit)
[01:53] <Kamion> T-Bone: no questions in the second stage; that's a requirement
[01:53] <Kamion> T-Bone: really I think this is a desktop thing
[01:53] <Kamion> and document it better if users can't find it
[01:54] <T-Bone> Kamion: then i'm clueless... We're going "you installed Ubuntu, you'll boot it by default or die" ? :)
[01:54] <Kamion> T-Bone: yep
[01:54] <T-Bone> heh
[01:54] <T-Bone> kinda rude :)
[01:54] <Kamion> T-Bone: the *installer* does that. the desktop lets you configure it.
[01:54] <jba> Kamion, I did this:
[01:54] <jba> boot: rescue
[01:54] <jba> and it sasy Could not find kernel image rescue
[01:54] <jba> or there abouts
[01:54] <Kamion> jba: architecture?
[01:54] <T-Bone> Kamion: it might be a desktop things, but it needs enlightenment for the user (pointers/disclaimers/documentation whatever) i think
[01:55] <Kamion> T-Bone: sure
[01:55] <jba> hoary array 3 cd for x86
[01:55] <jba> i'm running an athlong 1.4Ghz
[01:55] <Kamion> jba: oh, Array CD 3 probably didn't have the 'rescue' option in isolinux; you had to boot 'linux rescue/enable=true'
[01:55] <jba> cool thanks dude
[01:55] <jba> I'll remember that one
[01:56] <jba> linux rescue/enable=true
[01:56] <jba> exactly like that?
[01:56] <Kamion> shouldn't have to remember it for long, I added the rescue option 'cos clearly that approach was crap :)
[01:56] <Kamion> yes, exactly like that
[01:57] <jba> that's more like it
[01:57] <jba> is it possible grub doesn't like not being on the first disk?
[01:57] <Kamion> could be
[01:57] <T-Bone> jba: i'd say it's possible if your BIOS forcibly boots the first disk first
[01:58] <Kamion> the grub tricks you're doing are already beyond me though
[02:00] <jba> i've got one more trick left up my sleave, make the / partition contain /boot
[02:04] <jba> it seems no one is awake over in #grub
[02:04] <thom> mpt_london: you got mail
[02:08] <jba> success
[02:08] <jba> Kamion, jdub, T-Bone FYI, the solution was to install grub to (and then peel the first 512 bytes of) /dev/hdb (NOT /dev/hdb1)
[02:09] <jba> not sure why that mattered but it did
[02:09] <jba> time to go restore my /home partition and update to array 6
[02:09] <T-Bone> weird
[02:10] <pitti> jdub: it seems that http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/HoaryReleaseSchedule is out of date
[02:10] <jba> sigh
[02:10] <jba> I was wrong
[02:10] <ogra> thom: why is the firefox industrial forms patch not gone in ? http://linuxart.com/dir/stuff/screenshots/partial/firefox-forms1.png
[02:10] <jba> Error 6: mismatched or corrupt versions of stage 1/stage 2
[02:11] <ogra> thom: it makes ff look really consistent
[02:11] <pitti> jdub: oh no, I just interpreted the dates wrong, sorry
[02:11] <thom> ogra: because it's an absolute apin
[02:11] <thom> pain
[02:11] <T-Bone> ogra: yep, looks neat
[02:11] <ogra> thom: why ? it just replaces the css and some graphics i thought
[02:11] <thom> i'll try and get it in for 1.0.1 if i can
[02:11] <ogra> yeah
[02:12] <jba> grub is really starting to piss me off now
[02:13] <tseng> ogra: how does that work for !industrial engines?
[02:13] <T-Bone> grub is 3v1l
[02:13] <Kamion> jdub: ok to upload http://riva.ucam.org/~cjwatson/tmp/choose-mirror.ftp.diff? fixes a netboot crasher that svenl discovered
[02:13] <torkel> jba: just wait till you try to install it on your ninth disk ;-)
[02:13] <thom> tseng: the forms stuff is different to theming, and not tied to gtk particularly
[02:14] <Kamion> (due to the templates file being full of random blank lines)
[02:14] <ogra> tseng: hmm, good question, i think the forms will go on displaying industrial
[02:14] <tseng> actually, i think the scroll bars will be rethemed
[02:14] <thom> yes, it's an all-or-nothing proposition
[02:14] <tseng> and only the drop boxes and checkboxes he themed
[02:14] <thom> either you have industrial forms, or you don't
[02:14] <tseng> I've tried this before
[02:15] <thom> which is another reason i'm leary of it
[02:15] <ogra> thom: its still better then the rough motif like edges of the default
[02:16] <thom> mmm
[02:18] <Kamion> jdub: also, I have discovered an interesting new piece of hotplug-induced installer damage
[02:18] <T-Bone> damn, is it just me or does xorg's ATI driver plain sucks?
[02:19] <Kamion> jdub: since we coldplug everything we can at boot, it's entirely possible for a hw-detect run to have no modules to load, at which point it tries to ask a multiselect question with no choices
[02:19] <Kamion> jdub: cdebconf bombs out when you try to do that, and thus some later parts of hardware detection don't get run
[02:19] <Mithrandir> Kamion: rotfl (:
[02:19] <Kamion> jdub: the fix is to add an enormous if around a block of code; ok to do so?
[02:21] <trulux> heya folks
[02:21] <Kamion> I think this *might* explain some CD-ROM detection problems, although I noticed it in netboot while investigating why hw-detect was exiting without cleaning up its progress bar
[02:21] <trulux> heh, new result: 8/10 in English subject :)
[02:21] <tseng> ogra: oh wow.. try that forms mod on ubuntu bugzilla and the radio buttons to close a bug
[02:21] <trulux> err
[02:21] <trulux> 8:55/10
[02:21] <trulux> 8.55
[02:21] <trulux> :)
[02:21] <ogra> tseng: what does it do ?
[02:22] <tseng> it has a red box around it, maybe from css
[02:22] <tseng> and looks pretty yuck
[02:22] <tseng> dont need to close, its on every bug page
[02:22] <ogra> downloading it....wait a sec
[02:23] <jba> god dman it, it's not meant to be this hard !!!!
[02:23] <T-Bone> jba: no, it's meant to be harder :^)
[02:27] <ogra> tseng: i dont see a red box around the radiobuttons here
[02:27] <tseng> hm
[02:27] <tseng> ok
[02:28] <ogra> there is a dashed square though
[02:28] <ogra> but not red
[02:29] <trulux> jdub: ping
[02:37] <Kamion> jdub: (http://riva.ucam.org/~cjwatson/tmp/ddetect.empty-list.diff should fix the above problem; slightly less enormous if than I thought)
[02:42] <tritium> Good morning trulux
[02:53] <lamont> back on in about 3 hours or so.
[02:54] <trulux> tritium: hey! howya?
[02:54] <tritium> trulux, great.  You?
[02:56] <trulux> tritium: great but a bit upset with the English teacher
[02:58] <tritium> trulux, sorry...
[03:09] <trulux> tritium: it's just that she pretends to gimme just 8.55/10
[03:10] <trulux> tritium: and says that "z" spelling is wrong (ie. organize) and "s" so-british-leet spelling is OK
[03:10] <trulux> she writes *everything* in english, school results, personal notes.... all
[03:10] <trulux> it's kinda fun
[03:10] <trulux> :)
[03:11] <trulux> maybe she is scared on forgetting it
[03:11] <trulux> anyways
[03:11] <tritium> heh
[03:11] <trulux> I'm waiting for Maths results
[03:11] <trulux> and a few others
[03:12] <tritium> Well, good luck to you on those.
[03:13] <lunitik> tritium: weren't you one of the folks that uses mpd?
[03:13] <lunitik> tritium: if so, let me direct your attention to #ubuntu  :P
[03:14] <zul> hey
[03:14] <tritium> lunitik, no, but I'll go see what's going on.  Thanks.
[03:15] <tritium> lunitik, maybe you're remembering that I use gnump3d
[03:16] <trulux> tritium: thanks :) ubuntu-hardened ready
[03:16] <trulux> going to announce
[03:16] <tritium> trulux, Congratulations!
[03:17] <trulux> thanks :)
[03:17] <tritium> trulux, Now, let's convince the Purdue guys at Cerias to open a mirror, now that we can argue the security focus of ubuntu
[03:18] <tritium> trulux, I could use your help with that, as I was turned down the first time.
[03:21] <Kamion> trulux: there are worse things than being taught British English ;)
[03:22] <trulux> tritium: they won't do again if they are considerated
[03:22] <trulux> Kamion: I can't imagine in a first looking
[03:26] <tritium> trulux, at least you don't have to pronounce the letter "r" :)
[03:26] <T-Bone> Kamion: sure, that includes being taught 'baz' at 1AM  8)
[03:27] <zul> whinner :)
[03:28] <T-Bone> lol
[03:36] <mdke> the ubuntu live cd has bootsplash, but not the normal installation. Is it not available at all?
[03:38] <Riddell> just tried the kubuntu install CD on my thinkpad and the keyboard didn't work :(
[03:38] <Kamion> T-Bone: heh
[03:39] <Kamion> mdke: no; when we tried to add it to our kernels it broke the installer, and in discussions following that event we determined that it was fundamentally the wrong approach.
[03:39] <Kamion> mdke: the Warty live CD is quite different from the install CD in many ways. They've been unified in Hoary.
[03:39] <mdke> Kamion, i c. why fundamentally wrong?
[03:40] <Kamion> mdke: puts far too much into the kernel (and requires far too much to be compiled in monolithically, not as modules) that doesn't belong there
[03:40] <mdke> ah right, yes that is true
[03:40] <Kamion> hence usplash, which unfortunately hasn't made hoary, but should hopefully be ready for the next release
[03:41] <mdke> i wonder if there is a wiki for bootsplash on ubuntu
[03:45] <trulux> tritium: hah
[03:46] <Kamion> mdke: http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/USplash is the design document
[03:48] <daniels> sabdfl: ok, will check it out.  i've got a pcie x850 here, and i'm pretty sure we'll need a new upstream fglrx here.
[03:49] <mdke> Kamion, ty
[03:50] <zul> daniels: did you do any debugging for the xfs and stripping bug you reported?
[03:50] <daniels> zul: not yet sorry, I've been run off my feet with a combination of xorg and real-life
[03:50] <zul> daniels: no probs there is a bug open upsteam on bugme
[03:52] <daniels> yah, ta
[03:52] <daniels> Kamion: oh and btw, we still read edid via the of /proc tree with xresprobe :)
[03:53] <daniels> Kamion: remember the C hack we decided should probably just be replaced with your shell script in Oxford?
[03:53] <mvo> seb128: I noticed that python-vte lacks "forkpty()" judging from the code it looks like a oversight. can I send you a patch?
[03:54] <Kamion> daniels: ah yes
[03:58] <daniels> anyway, must sleep now
[03:59] <daniels> mdz: been bashing at the debconfiscation, think it's in a fair bit better shape now
[04:01] <sabdfl> whiprush, smurfix: around?
[04:03] <Keybuk> dd: reading `/dev/hdc': Input/output error
[04:03] <Keybuk> c9ddc826f1716f1246ce17eccf18a717  -
[04:03] <Keybuk> *sigh*  I'm clearly doomed
[04:03] <Kamion> disk or CD
[04:03] <Kamion> ?
[04:03] <Keybuk> CD
[04:03] <Kamion> reburn?
[04:03] <Keybuk> that's about the 6th reburn so far
[04:04] <whiprush> sabdfl: I'm here
[04:04] <sabdfl> hey whiprush
[04:05] <seb128> mvo: sure
[04:06] <daniels> mjg59: oh, fwiw, there's no way I can keep i810 from HEAD in hoary, so no matter what happens with the kernel, we just won't have DRI across suspend/resume.  it's really too stuffed and I can't get my hands on any hardware.
[04:06] <ogra> Keybuk: time for a new writer ?
[04:06] <whiprush> what's up?
[04:06] <sabdfl> daniels: i think my X40 is i810
[04:11] <dholbach> re
[04:12] <whiprush> sabdfl: I'm leaving for work in a minute ... did you need something?
[04:12] <sabdfl> whiprush: sent you a /invite
[04:13] <sabdfl> but there may be a client problem, noone else seems to have gotten it
[04:16] <tseng> Riddell: hey if you have some spare cycles at any point, can I point out that there are several KDE-related packages that need some help on UniversePythonTransitionTODO
[04:17] <Riddell> tseng: yes, but we're working on KDE 3.4 packages so no point fixing 3.3 when 3.4 will have to be fixed up soon anyway
[04:17] <tseng> sure, thanks
[04:18] <tseng> would you mind reflecting on that page which packages are affected by this?
[04:19] <tseng> or just give me a quick list and I'll handle it
[04:19] <mjg59> daniels: Oh, the xserver side of it? Suck.
[04:19] <tseng> (trying to keep the "unresolved" list as up to date as possible)
[04:23] <ogra> tseng: what will we do about these ? drop them ?
[04:24] <tseng> ogra: the kde packs? just assumed that riddel was the best guy to look at them / already had it on his list
[04:24] <mvo> seb128: send vte patch as gnome bug #169201
[04:24] <tseng> so I could check it off our master list
[04:24] <tseng> into "being transitioned"
[04:24] <tseng> im looking at boost, atm
[04:25] <Riddell> tseng: I'll look at the python stuff after we get 3.4 packaged
[04:25] <ogra> tseng: ah, ok.... sounded like they are not touched bacause of 3.4
[04:25] <tseng> Riddell: ok, thanks.
[04:25] <ogra> because even
[04:26] <tseng> Riddell: what im saying is.. they are on a todo list for all motus and volunteers. if its on your list, i should move them to Being Transitioned with your name so that no one wastes time mucking with them until your done 3.4. am I making more sense now?
[04:27] <tseng> sorry if it was less than clear
[04:27] <svenl> daniels: you there ? can we discuss this #7144 issue ?
[04:28] <Riddell> tseng: ok yeah, that's all cool, put me down as transitioner
[04:28] <tseng> Riddell: ok wonderful. thanks
[04:29] <dholbach> tseng, Riddell: you rock :-)
[04:29] <Riddell> dholbach: ment to compliment you on that motu report, works well, good job
[04:29] <tseng> dholbach: i mailed you a neat tip :)
[04:30] <dholbach> tseng: *having a look*
[04:37] <seb128> mvo: k
[04:42] <haggai> Riddell: http://lists.alioth.debian.org/pipermail/pkg-kde-talk/2005-February/000079.html
[04:42] <tritium> seb128, is it worth noting somewhere that the latest update to evolution requires a user to setup an email account?  (i.e. you can't just use it for calendar, contacts without at least a dummy email account)
[04:43] <haggai> Riddell: oops that was for #kubuntu-devel
[04:48] <Mithrandir> jdub: where's the march calendar?
[04:53] <ogra> Mithrandir: hmm, http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/u/ubuntu-calendar/5.03-1/ubuntu-calendar_5.03-1_20050304-0436-i386-successful
[04:53] <ogra> seems it got lost between the buildd and the archive
[04:54] <tseng> ogra: thats odd, pyparsing is in a similar situation it looks like
[04:56] <ogra> tseng: did you aks elmo or lamont ?
[04:56] <ogra> ask even
[04:56] <tseng> not yet
[04:56] <pitti> elmo: ping
[04:56] <tseng> just realized it before bed last night
[04:56] <pitti> lamont: ping
[04:57] <ogra> pitti: you make us famous at heise.de :) the only mentioning of ubuntu i find there, are several entrys about ubuntu beig the fastes in fixing security holes :)
[04:58] <pitti> ogra: I already saw that, yes :-)
[04:58] <pitti> ogra: although Ubuntu was pretty often mentioned in comments
[04:59] <ogra> but borchers still talks about the "southafrican linux distribution" heh
[04:59] <pitti> ogra: after warty was released I wrote about 10 mails to the newsticker team to mention Ubuntu release
[05:00] <ogra> pitti: me too...
[05:00] <pitti> ogra: however, I was a bit sad that it took four months until Ubuntu was presented in the c't
[05:00] <seb128> tritium: evolution 2.0 works in this way too, and you can create a dummy account
[05:00] <ogra> and i know juergen kuri and detlef borchers (coming from hannover)
[05:00] <pitti> ogra: and the article was not even very good ("just another Debian release, and that's it")
[05:00] <ogra> bah
[05:00] <tritium> seb128, yes, but it wasn't enabled until the latest upgrade to 2.1.6
[05:01] <pitti> ogra: seems we have to kick them harder for hoary :-)
[05:01] <ogra> pitti: lets just ignore them from now on, they are not worth it
[05:01] <seb128> tritium: you saying than a wizard to create an account for new users is a bad idea ? I don't think so
[05:01] <pitti> but a lot of people read heise newsticker
[05:01] <tritium> seb128, no, not saying that at all
[05:01] <ogra> pitti, if the attitude is "just another...." kicking wont change it
[05:01] <seb128> tritium: 2.1.5 used to do that
[05:01] <pitti> ogra: by "kick" I mean "present the advantages" :-)
[05:02] <tritium> seb128, just last night my wife was forced to setup an email account.  Before yesterday, she had only used calendar and contacts
[05:02] <tritium> That's all I was pointing out.
[05:02] <ogra> yup...i think this time there will be a proper announcement....
[05:02] <seb128> tritium: right, could be a whishlist, but I think that's not a standard usecase .. you can't cancel it ?
[05:02] <ogra> ...we can send it to them....but the question is if they will use it
[05:02] <tritium> seb128, no, jpr told me just to setup server as "None" and sendmail for outgoing
[05:03] <seb128> k
[05:03] <pitti> ogra: IIRC last time I did send them a link to the announcement
[05:03] <ogra> hrm
[05:03] <seb128> tritium: feel free to put a wishlist in bugzilla.ximian though :)
[05:03] <ogra> di*kheads
[05:03] <pitti> ogra: but at that time we did not have many killer features
[05:03] <tritium> seb128, a way to cancel out would be nice, or perhaps a little note in README.debian, or somehting
[05:03] <pitti> ogra: hoary has more :-)
[05:03] <tritium> seb128, okay.  Thanks.
[05:03] <ogra> warty was a killer feature per se ;)
[05:03] <pitti> indeed :-)
[05:04] <seb128> tritium: a note say what ? evolution works in this way for ages, they just turn the option in the devel branch
[05:04] <seb128> tritium: ie: an user following stable branches will not get any change
[05:04] <tritium> seb128, I believe you, but I've not seen it force an email account setup until yesterday
[05:05] <tritium> I just meant a note about using server type "None" to get around it, that's all.
[05:05] <seb128> k
[05:05] <seb128> if you want to write the note patches are welcome
[05:06] <seb128> :)
[05:06] <tritium> :)
[05:12] <Amaranth> "That said, I think it's high time we eliminate the session splash (and perhaps the session manager) altogether and just make login fast." <--what he said :)
[05:13] <tseng> good thing ubuntu has its own splash
[05:14] <mdz> morning
[05:14] <ogra> morning
[05:16] <zul> morning mdz
[05:17] <mdz> pitti: yes?
[05:17] <pitti> Hi mdz
[05:17] <pitti> mdz: ah, yes; language packs (of course :-) )
[05:18] <pitti> mdz: I replied to the mailing list
[05:18] <pitti> mdz: however, do you agree that we should settle this by the preview?
[05:18] <pitti> mdz: I also asked Mako to gather some statistics (no reply yet)
[05:19] <mako> pitti: hey dude.. talking with mark
[05:19] <mako> pitti: saw your email
[05:19] <pitti> mako: hi mako!
[05:19] <pitti> mako: did you find a good measure?
[05:19] <mdz> pitti: yes, we absolutely should settle this by preview
[05:20] <pitti> mdz: in short I proposed to use more space for hoary (~ 30 MB) and split the packages into -desktop and -supported for hoary+1 if necessary (if space becomes tight)
[05:20] <pitti> mdz: I think it would really be a pity to make hoary worse than warty...
[05:22] <mdz> pitti: what did sabdfl say?
[05:22] <pitti> mdz: no reply on the lists, I can ask him on irc
[05:22] <_d4vid> hi all
[05:27] <sabdfl> he's listening, what's up?
[05:28] <pitti> sabdfl: we need to find a reasonably quick solution to the outstanding langpack questions
[05:29] <pitti> sabdfl: a while ago I mailed to ubuntu-devel ("Language support summary/discussion")
[05:29] <pitti> sabdfl: short-short version: I proposed to devote ~ 30 MB for language packs for Hoary
[05:29] <pitti> sabdfl: we have the space now and should not make Hoary worse than Warty (which included translations)
[05:30] <pitti> sabdfl: if space becomes an issue for hoary+1, we can always split the desktop part of the langpacks to save space
[05:30] <pitti> sabdfl: what do you think about this?
[05:30] <mdz> sabdfl: note that this proposal conflicts with the idea of providing complete support for languages on the CD (spell checking, etc.)
[05:30] <mdz> unfortunately we must choose
[05:31] <sabdfl> mdz: no hope for 750MB?
[05:31] <pitti> sabdfl: we can strip some more packages
[05:31] <sabdfl> is the issue with 750MB the burners or the readers?
[05:31] <sabdfl> pitti: from the ship list?
[05:31] <mdz> I don't think it matters; either would be a deal-breaker
[05:31] <pitti> sabdfl: yes
[05:32] <mdz> we could remove thunderbird and a few things like that from ship
[05:33] <sabdfl> erk
[05:33] <pitti> mdz: so you additionally want to include some l-support pakcages?
[05:33] <sabdfl> pitti - if someone chooses a language, it makes sense that they want to create content in that language
[05:33] <mdz> pitti: we _must_ include l-s-en, and preferably support for the most common languages
[05:33] <sabdfl> so spell checkers, input methods, etc should Just work
[05:33] <pitti> mdz: well, the l-s-en packages are mostly already in ship anyway
[05:33] <mdz> pitti: I cannot imagine a user who wants applications translated into a language, but will not write their documents in that language
[05:34] <mdz> pitti: oh?
[05:34] <pitti> mdz: indeed
[05:34] <mdz> oh, -en, yes
[05:34] <tseng> why does the pkgstriptranslations package touch a file in /var/lib/update-notifier?
[05:34] <mdz> only English
[05:34] <pitti> mdz: we already ship and install oo.o l10n and such
[05:34] <pitti> tseng: eh?
[05:34] <sabdfl> pitti: what do you mean by "worse than hoary". fewer languages?
[05:34] <sabdfl> as i see it we are shipping fewer languages on cd but supporting them much better
[05:34] <tseng> Setting up pkgstriptranslations (8) ...
[05:34] <tseng> Installing new version of config file /etc/pkgstriptranslations.conf ...
[05:34] <tseng> touch: cannot touch `/var/lib/update-notifier/dpkg-run-stamp': No such file or directory
[05:34] <mdz> sabdfl: localization data for fewer languages on the CD
[05:34] <pitti> sabdfl: a friend of mine already complained that warty was fully translated into German
[05:35] <tseng> pitti: doing it in my pbuilder update
[05:35] <pitti> sabdfl: now with hoary, he gets a crazy wild mix of English with some German translatiosn in between
[05:35] <mdz> pitti: did he install without a network?
[05:35] <pitti> sabdfl: German from the .desktop files, all other stuff english
[05:35] <sabdfl> hmm... in the installer, or after install?
[05:35] <pitti> mdz: live cd, and he only has modem
[05:35] <pitti> mdz: -> so yes, without network
[05:35] <pitti> mdz: most of "normal" computer users here use modem
[05:36] <pitti> it's completely sufficient for mail reading and some browsing
[05:36] <pitti> mdz: the live CD looks ugly either way because it does not install langpacks from network
[05:38] <tseng> pitti: theres obviously nothing in rules doing that, I guess i have to bug mvo
[05:39] <pitti> mdz: OTOH many people want/need a translated desktop, they will see it before they even attempt to open OO.o and such
[05:39] <sabdfl> mdz: is it feasible, for hoary, to have it download the langpacks if you say "yes" to the download new software question?
[05:39] <pitti> mdz: if we have the space, then of course ffox locales etc. would rock, too
[05:39] <pitti> sabdfl: already done
[05:39] <sabdfl> so f someone chooses hungarian, and then network install, they get hungarian even if it was not on the cd?
[05:40] <mdz> sabdfl: yes, it already does that
[05:40] <pitti> sabdfl: this already happens
[05:40] <sabdfl> nice
[05:40] <pitti> sabdfl: just not for the live cd
[05:40] <mdz> it could be done for the live CD, but this would be slow and cost a lot of memory
[05:40] <sabdfl> hmm...
[05:40] <mdz> better to preinstall as much as possible
[05:40] <pitti> mdz: then maybe for the live CD you should skip the language question
[05:40] <sabdfl> could the live cd have all the languages pre-installed? would the cost be the winfoss?
[05:41] <pitti> mdz: better a consistent English interface than this embarrassing mix
[05:41] <mdz> pitti: we will localize it as much as possible within the space available, as with the install CD
[05:41] <pitti> mdz: ah, ok
[05:41] <pitti> mdz: would it be possible to install an English locale for non-available language packs?
[05:42] <mdz> pitti: configure for an english locale by default, you mean?
[05:42] <mdz> (if the language pack is not available for that language)?
[05:42] <pitti> mdz: nobody will complain if the live CD does not contain Zulu translations, but it shouldn't be a mix between Zulu and English languages
[05:42] <mdz> that seems worse than not offering the option, if we disregard it
[05:42] <pitti> mdz: yes
[05:42] <pitti> mdz: have you ever seen a live CD in non-English?
[05:43] <pitti> mdz: you get two languages within the same sentence or menu
[05:43] <pitti> mdz: this is awful
[05:43] <pitti> mdz: better to have it consistent
[05:43] <mdz> pitti: well, how many language packs can we fit on the live CD?
[05:43] <mdz> pitti: we will add language  packs to the live seed
[05:43] <pitti> mdz: I don't have the images on this computer, how much space can we devote?
[05:44] <mdz> this has been intended from the start
[05:44] <mdz> pitti: we don't know without a test
[05:44] <pitti> mdz: with 35 MB we can have the full list of the world's 11 most popular langs
[05:44] <mdz> lunitik: we pregenerate all of the necessary locales on the live CD
[05:45] <mdz> pitti: 35MB installed-size?
[05:45] <pitti> mdz: no, debs
[05:45] <pitti> mdz: does the uncompressed size matter?
[05:46] <lunitik> mdz: I don't use the LiveCD much though... but have sat through a couple upgrades to locales... promptly removed the lang pack  :(
[05:46] <mdz> pitti: the compression ratio we get with .debs is different from that of the cloop image
[05:46] <pitti> ah
[05:46] <mdz> we get a ratio of about 2.6:1
[05:46] <mdz> lunitik: we are discussing the live CD at the moment
[05:46] <pitti> mdz: an well-translated language pack (french, German, etc.) is about 10 MB uncompressed
[05:47] <lunitik> mdz: oh... well, still somewhat on topic  :P
[05:47] <mdz> lunitik: yes, we agree with you about the number of english locales being excessive, and think it should be made smarter
[05:47] <lunitik> mdz: cool
[05:47] <mdz> lunitik: time is very limited, though, and performance issues are secondary.  patches gratefully received.
[05:47] <mdz> especially one-time performance issues that only affect the install
[05:48] <lunitik> mdz: depends... I have not used the stable branch much, so I get a lot of locales upgrades... I guess its something I have to live with for now though  :)
[05:50] <luis_> hrm
[05:52] <mdz> currently, the daily live CD offers a localized bootstrap, and an English-only runtime environment
[05:52] <mdz> pitti: so about 3.8M of live CD space
[05:52] <mdz> pitti: current live CD is 480M
[05:52] <mdz> winfoss is ~100M
[05:52] <mdz> leaving us with ~70M for additional languages
[05:53] <mdz> let's add the top 10 immediately
[05:53] <luis_> mdz: yeah, I know; I'm installing the es language pack right now on my liveCD to test it
[05:53] <pitti> mdz: so these 11 packs would need 35/2.6*3 = 40 MB
[05:53] <pitti> mdz: given that we can split the packages for hoary+1, this seems adequate to me. What do you think?
[05:54] <pitti> mdz: we should be able to get another 10 MB from stripping, too
[05:54] <mdz> pitti: ok, please go ahead and add the packs to the ship seed
[05:54] <mdz> er
[05:54] <mdz> live seed
[05:54] <pitti> mdz: ah, ok. ship will be discussed separately?
[05:54] <doko> mdz, jdub: confirmation for uploading fixes to #6651 (documentation issue), and #6686 (bug fix for gs-esp in .ps file)
[05:54] <doko> ?
[05:55] <mdz> pitti: it seems we are more constrained on the install CD
[05:55] <pitti> mdz: is it right that "live" only contains 4 packages by now?
[05:55] <mdz> pitti: yes. it is in addition to desktop
[05:55] <pitti> ah
[05:56] <mdz> doko: 6651 fine
[05:56] <mdz> doko: 6686 OK as well
[05:57] <doko> thanks
[05:59] <pitti> mdz: hmm, French is the 11th language...
[05:59] <mdz> pitti: go ahead, there is room for it
[05:59] <doko> mdz: need to fix the lib32gcc symlink in gcc-3.4 as well. can I update the package to the compiler version I build for haggai, just fix the symlink, or delay anything after the preview release?
[05:59] <mdz> doko: what build-depends on 3.4?
[05:59] <pitti> mdz: btw, I already rounded up for the 30 MB, so it shouln't be 35 MB
[05:59] <mdz> doko: bug#?
[06:01] <doko> firefox and mozilla on amd64, and grub. wait, I already did close it, after fixing 4.0
[06:03] <doko> #7099
[06:04] <mdz> doko: doesn't grub build with -m32?
[06:04] <mdz> does this mean that it is FTBFS right now?
[06:05] <pitti> mdz: okay, added (10 new packs, English was already there). Shall we wait for Mako's results what to do for ship?
[06:05] <mdz> pitti: what is mako working on?
[06:06] <doko> mdz: yes, but doesn't depend on the shared libgcc1_32
[06:06] <mako> pitti: give me 15 minutes.. i'm done with the meeting with mark
[06:06] <pitti> mdz: I asked him to gather some statistics about languages, countries where Ubuntu is popular and so on
[06:06] <mdz> doko: the only change is to add a symlink, yes?  if so, go ahead
[06:06] <pitti> mako: it's not _that_ urgent :-)
[06:06] <mako> pitti: i can get the country stuff pretty quickly
[06:06] <mako> i already have the code to do it
[06:07] <mdz> doko: and promise me that we can use gcc-4.0 for everything in hoary+1 :-)
[06:07] <mako> i've done it for jane several times
[06:07] <doko> to _change_ the symlink
[06:07] <mdz> mako: please do; this is critical for preview
[06:07] <mdz> doko: OK
[06:08] <doko> mdz: we'll see, we have 3.4 as ABI compatible backup :)
[06:08] <luis_> may I ask what the ten languages you just shoved on the liveCD were?
[06:08] <luis_> and will those be on tomorrow's daily build or is that for the future at some point?
[06:08] <mdz> luis_: the next daily build
[06:08] <mdz> luis_: is that going to run you out of space?
[06:11] <luis_> mdz: don't think so
[06:11] <luis_> mdz: I mean, worst case, I can always nuke french ;)
[06:11] <doko> mdz, mvo: could we decide on the seed changes needed for ISDN?
[06:12] <luis_> mdz: though I'm a little worried about fonts and such taking up additional space, not sure. Do the lang packs directly depend on the necessary fonts or are they already on there?
[06:12] <mdz> doko: did you fix the issues that I raised in response to your previous proposal?
[06:13] <mdz> luis_: the fonts are already there
[06:13] <doko> mdz: the i386 only thing? yes, removed, because it's i386 only
[06:13] <luis_> right, but I think maybe I nuked some from my build in my space-creating zeal ;)
[06:13] <netdur> hey, I don't know if I should report about this or not (I don't like bugzilla), if you try to install apache* via synaptic, the intall process will stick forever because the instalation requit some confugrations, which you not notice if you hide the terminl in install process
[06:13] <luis_> we'll see, I guess :)
[06:14] <HiddenWolf>  netdur: file a bug
[06:14] <doko> the remaining question was, if driver and firmware stuff should be installed by default on a desktop install
[06:15] <mdz> doko: isdnutils is already in ship
[06:15] <pitti> doko: it seems that the battle for CD space has begun :-)
[06:15] <mvo> HiddenWolf, netdur: this problem is probably caused by the fact that libgnome2-perl is not installed by default. this is needed to get graphical debconf support
[06:16] <mdz> doko: it's too late to add non-trivial things to the desktop, certainly for preview (and likely for final as well)
[06:17] <mdz> doko: I see no package named pppdplugin
[06:17] <HiddenWolf> mvo: why isn't it installed by default?
[06:18] <mdz> I guess you meant pppdcapiplugin
[06:18] <mvo> mdz: please reconsider this. capituils where packages we asked for inclusion to ship for some time
[06:18] <mdz> mvo: I said desktop, not ship
[06:18] <mvo> mdz: sorry
[06:19] <doko> mdz: correct
[06:19] <mvo> HiddenWolf: I hope it will be changed for the hoary-final. there where some concerns about it (the gui is not too nice)
[06:19] <doko> drdsl needs to be imported from non-free to restricted
[06:20] <doko> and avm-fritz-firmware added to linux-meta, and then added to the ship seed as well.
[06:20] <HiddenWolf> mvo: isn't it just possible to supress those few config questions that arise, or pop up a dialog to open the terminal if there is a question that can't be avoided?
[06:21] <mdz> lamont: ping
[06:22] <froud> mdz: if you are gonna have desktoip changes please notify ubuntu-doc. thanks
[06:23] <mdz> froud: what desktop changes?
[06:23] <mvo> HiddenWolf: detecting the questions on a terminal seems to be impossible. supressing is already done, we have debconf priority=high. so most of the stuff is supressed anyway, but the remaining questions are imported and should be asked
[06:24] <mdz> froud: do you mean ubuntu-docs?
[06:24] <pitti> bah, why does ubuntu-base depend on telnet?
[06:25] <mdz> pitti: because silly people use it instead of netcat
[06:26] <mdz> I think that very few people use the actual telnet protocol these days :-)
[06:26] <doko> mdz: we shouldn't put isdnutils in ship, isdnutils-base, ipppd, (maybe isdnlog), capiutils and pppdcapiplugin are enough
[06:26] <mdz> doko: isdnutils has been in ship for the entire hoary cycle
[06:26] <froud> mdz: yes ubuntu-docs and only if there will be changes to the desktop menu options
[06:27] <froud> mdz: that is the default that installs
[06:27] <doko> mdz: ok, then only capiutils and pppdcapiplugin
[06:27] <mdz> froud: we will be adding the faqguide and quickguide to the default install, but I do not think that they have menu options
[06:27] <froud> mdz: just until release
[06:27] <mdz> doko: I have alreaday done this; see my followup on ubuntu-devel
[06:28] <froud> mdz: no I mean if you decide to add new apps to any of the menus.
[06:28] <froud> mdz: just tell us
[06:28] <mdz> froud: as I was saying above, we should not make that kind of change at this point in the release cycle
[06:28] <doko> mdz: elmo just wanted to have an ok to move drdsl to restricted.
[06:29] <mdz> doko: elmo's laptop is broken, he is offline
[06:29] <froud> mdz: should not but you never know ;-) so I ask if per chance it does happen let us know, please
[06:29] <mdz> oh, maybe not
[06:29] <mdz> elmo: fine with me to move drdsl to restricted
[06:30] <mdz> elmo: please also promote the ubuntu-docs stuff to main
[06:31] <elmo> ubuntu-doc stuff is in main, I thoguht
[06:31] <mdz> elmo: so it is. retroactive thanks
[06:32] <mdz> elmo: do you publish the output from wotshername automatically anywhere? (pending promotions/demotions)
[06:35] <mdz> pitti: let's carry out your proposal for ship
[06:36] <mdz> pitti: but we must decide what to do about language-support-*
[06:36] <elmo> mdz: no not yet
[06:36] <pitti> mdz: right
[06:37] <pitti> mdz: yesterday I installed array 6 with de, and downloading l-s-de with dependencies alone was 26 MB compressed
[06:37] <mdz> pitti: can you calculate the total size of each l-s-* and its dependencies?
[06:37] <pitti> mdz: i. e. if we want to put support packages on it, we can only add about two langs
[06:37] <mdz> pitti: yes, I think it is unfortunately too much to download during the install in many cases
[06:37] <pitti> mdz: I prepare a list
 the next release is going to fix every inotify bug, ever
 seriously, I will have a patch out--hopefully today--that eradicates every bug
[06:42] <pitti> MUHAHA
[06:42] <pitti> seb128: would rock
[06:42] <seb128> yep
[06:43] <Riddell> sabdfl: should the artwork competition use the name canonical, ubuntu or kubuntu?
[06:44] <koke> about translations...
[06:45] <koke> it would be great to have xscreensaver lock dialog translated
[06:45] <koke> I guess the problem is the same that about linking to gtk
[06:45] <koke> isn't it?
[06:48] <mdz> seb128: who is the Oliver mentioned in #6959?
[06:50] <seb128> mdz:   * Include pretty lock dialogue patch from Oliver Grawert.
[06:50] <mdz> hmm
[06:50] <seb128> the guy who has wroten the patch apparently
[06:50] <seb128> yeah :)
[06:52] <ogra> yup, here, whats wrong?
[06:52] <pitti> mdz: people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/support-bysize.txt
[06:52] <mdz> enrico: I still don't see the faqguide or quickguide in yelp; I thought you were updating the package?
[06:54] <ogra> mdz: i have a 80% done patch i temporary dropped until after hwdb-client is done....does this need to be fixed before preview ?
[06:54] <mdz> ogra: no, but definitely for final
[06:55] <ogra> (in fact its 100% done, but jdub wanted me to revert some things)
[06:55] <mdz> seb128: when do the 2.10 tarballs start appearing?
[06:55] <ogra> seb128: hmm, why is that assigned to you....can i claim it as a reminder ?
[06:56] <ogra> (reassign it to me that is)
[06:56] <seb128> mdz: monday
[06:56] <mdz> sivang: http://linmagazine.co.il/node/view/7242
[06:57] <pitti> mdz: http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/support-bypopularity.txt
[06:57] <pitti> mdz: ^ I think that's better than the size-sorted list
[06:57] <seb128> ogra: dunno why that's assigned to me, feel free to reassign it :)
[06:57] <pitti> mdz: pretty big stuff...
[06:57] <ogra> seb128: thanks :)
[06:58] <mdz> pitti: HUGE
[06:58] <pitti> mdz: the list shows the sum of deb sizes per language support
[06:58] <pitti> mdz: yes, dictionaries, help files, etc. cost a lot
[06:58] <pitti> mdz: that's what I mean, if we want to ship them, we can't do more than two languages
[06:59] <enrico> mdz: I uploaded a new package; if you install ubuntu-docs, you should see about and release notes.   QuickGuide and FAQGuide show up if you install them.
[07:00] <enrico> mdz: However, they all should show up in the Others category
[07:00] <elmo> mdz: btw, http://people.ubuntu.com/~james/paste/sync.txt if you wanted a once off update, I'll try and cron that to somewhere public when I get back
[07:01] <pitti> mdz: I gotta go now, sorry. can we continue this later?
[07:01] <pitti> mdz: if you have some suggestions, could you reply on the mailing list?
[07:01] <mdz> enrico: what version of ubuntu-docs?  they don't show up here
[07:01] <mdz> pitti: I will be here all day and probably all weekend too
[07:01] <enrico> mdz: 0.2-1
[07:01] <pitti> mdz: okay
[07:02] <mdz> enrico: the latest version in Ubuntu is 0.1-1
[07:02] <enrico> mdz: I've uploaded them this afternoon
[07:02] <enrico> mdz: 3 hours ago, if you have a different concept of a'noon :)
[07:02] <mdz> enrico: did you receive an accepted message?
[07:02] <elmo> ubuntu-docs_0.2-1_i386.changes
[07:02] <elmo> REJECT
[07:02] <elmo> Rejected: binary uploads are not allowed - please only upload source.
[07:02] <enrico> oh darn!
[07:02] <enrico> ok, re-upping
[07:03] <mdz> enrico: is your email address not whitelisted?
[07:03] <enrico> mdz: I didn't get the mail, no
[07:03] <elmo> I just whitelisted it
[07:04] <mdz> thanks
[07:04] <mdz> elmo: would there be any particular problem with publishing that log?
[07:04] <enrico> mdz: I've used<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[07:04] <enrico> elmo: thanks
[07:04] <mdz> elmo: or does it mix in the security stuff in the same place?
[07:05] <elmo> mdz: unfortunately yes, it mixes security stuff
[07:05] <mdz> doh
[07:07] <enrico> what was the debuild switch for source-only upload?
[07:07] <pitti> -S
[07:07] <enrico> pitti: thanks
[07:09] <ogra> elmo: looks like ubuntu-calendar got lost between buildd and archive somehow....
[07:09] <tseng> elmo: i *think* the same happened to pyparsing
[07:09] <elmo> pyparsing was in NEW, I cleared it a couple of hours ago
[07:09] <elmo> ubuntu-calendar always gets lost - it's an artificat of how we force it into warty-security
[07:09] <elmo> I'll fix it now
[07:10] <tseng> ah thanks elmo
[07:10] <ogra> heh, good to know, then ill shut up next month ;)
[07:11] <pitti> mdz: after seeing the list, do you still think that we should add support packages?
[07:11] <enrico> mdz: uploading again now...
[07:12] <mdz> pitti: I cannot think of any 2 we could add which would be a reasonable choice over the others :-/
[07:12] <mdz> enrico: DeveloperResources has a checklist for uploads
[07:12] <mdz> pitti: why does l-s-it not depend on oo.o-thesaurus-it?
[07:12] <enrico> mdz: thanks
[07:13] <pitti> mdz: dunno, maybe it did not exist at the time I created the support packages
[07:13] <pitti> mdz: no problem to add, though
[07:13] <enrico> Can I link DeveloperResources from Uploads?
[07:13] <enrico> pitti: it didn't exist
[07:13] <enrico> pitti: the it thesaurus is quite new
[07:13] <pitti> hmm, I still cannot find it
[07:13] <pitti> mdz: where is this package?
[07:13] <enrico> pitti: and I uploaded a new improved version in Debian yesterday
[07:14] <enrico> upstream told me there's tons of new words
[07:14] <pitti> enrico: thanks, that explains it
[07:14] <mdz> pitti: openoffice.org-thesaurus-it | 0+20041114.2-0.1 | http://archive.ubuntu.com hoary/main Packages
[07:14] <enrico> pitti: the IT thesaurus has been developed recently by a network of high schools
[07:14] <enrico> so it comes out quite independently from the rest of OOo
[07:15] <pitti> mdz: ah, ok, I add it to the support package then
[07:15] <enrico> more so because the italian OOo community is pissed at Sun and releases their things GPL-only
[07:15] <mdz> elmo: I don't see where python-hip is coming from; it isn't in the germinate output for hoary or kubuntu-hoary
[07:16] <mdz> (Colin's output, that is)
[07:17] <enrico> mdz: uploaded.  No mail yet; I'm going to dinner
[07:18] <elmo> python-hip                       | libmp3hip                     | kubuntu-desktop                          | Myers W. Carpenter<EMAIL_ADDRESS>
[07:18] <mdz> mizar:[...nonical/seeds/kubuntu/hoary]  grep python-hip desktop
[07:18] <mdz> zsh: exit 1     grep python-hip desktop
[07:18] <mdz> that was removed ages ago
[07:19] <mdz> kubuntu-desktop doesn't depend on it either
[07:19] <elmo> kubuntu-desktop |       0.25 |         hoary | sparc
[07:19] <elmo> kubuntu-desktop |       0.29 |         hoary | amd64, i386, ia64, powerpc
[07:19] <elmo> unfortunately the old sparc one does
[07:20] <elmo> I can take sparc out of the germinate arches  for now, but that'll fill the list with false positives about wanting to remove sparc specific stuff
[07:20] <mdz> pitti: also, l-s-en should depend on openoffice.org-thesaurus-en-us
[07:20] <mdz> elmo: is that because sparc isn't building any packages?
[07:20] <elmo> mdz: yes
[07:21] <mdz> I wonder which breakage is worse
[07:21] <mdz> the false positives for sparc-specific stuff, or the false positives for sparc out-of-date stuff
[07:22] <elmo> if I could think of a way to trivally purge out-of-date sparc binaries that might be easiest
[07:23] <Disaster> sorry... someone try to compile Canon I250 driver for ubuntu ?
[07:24] <mdz> Disaster: #ubuntu for support
[07:24] <Disaster> mdz... i'm trying...
[07:24] <mdz> Disaster: thanks
[07:27] <mdz> lamont: ping
[07:29] <mdz> meta-kde is sparc fallout too
[07:30] <mdz> elmo: how did kubuntu-meta manage to remain in universe while its binaries were promoted to main?
[07:30] <elmo> mdz: 'cos the promotion script isn't smart about that, I fixed it just now tho
[07:30] <mdz> thanks
[07:31] <elmo> I need to run an audit of that tho, as there's going to be other cases
[07:35] <mxpxpod> seb128: thanks for the gtkmm update
[07:35] <mxpxpod> you rawk
[07:35] <mdz> elmo: emailed you a batch of stuff, including the two cases of that that I see in the current list
[07:38] <seb128> mxpxpod: np, you should thanks dholbach who is working on the packages :)
[07:38] <mxpxpod> dholbach: you rawk :)
[07:38] <dholbach> mxpxpod: thanks :-)
[07:39] <T-Bone> Mithrandir: ping64? :)
[07:47] <T-Bone> mdz: ?
[07:47] <mdz> T-Bone?
[07:47] <T-Bone> mdz: i just received an auto-discard notification for a mail you sent to kernel-team. Any idea why?
[07:48] <mdz> T-Bone: I did indeed send a mail to kernel-team, but I have no idea why it would be discarded
[07:48] <mdz> did someone add me to the discard list?
[07:48] <T-Bone> mdz: to the contrary, i added you to the accept list
[07:49] <Amaranth> sorry, xchat-gnome is buggy
[07:49] <T-Bone> mdz: you'll need to ask lamont, i don't have enough rights to check
[07:50] <mdz> T-Bone: sure enough, I'm on the discard list
[07:51] <T-Bone> mdz: hell, have i screwed?