Liberals having normal reactions (with Bonus content from this subreddit!)
user
So I normally don't mind shitting on Democrat candidates, especially when they're established politicians to begin with. That being said, ever since she got endorsed by Biden, every single one of my progressive/lefty subreddits I follow have been flooded with negative Kamala articles and posts that date back 7+ years. I hate to break it to everyone here, but Kamala is as left of a candidate as you're going to see in 2024. An open convention will produce someone to the right of her. Instead of instantly dogpiling, why don't we just wait to see what her policies are? Yes, the liberal response of "enjoy camps" is crazy, but to also say you're not voting for her before we even really know what her big policies are is wild too
assistant
Literally this. I’m so tired of liberal idealism. We need to elect people that will create gradual change. Did we not learn our lesson when we couldn’t even get Bernie on the ballot, let alone elected as president? We have a very real possibility of Project 2025 happening if people keep acting like not voting for Biden (now Harris) is somehow the best choice for Palestine. Do you think Trump will lead us to a ceasefire? (I’ll help you out here, he won’t).
user
&gt;I’m so tired of liberal idealism

You are advocating for voting for liberal politicians. This is literally the definition of liberal idealism
assistant
What are you talking about? I’m advocating for voting for the non-Trump candidate. The collective “we” was just democrats who want a progressive candidate (including Hasan whose subreddit we are on, so I don’t really know where everyone here stands) and pushed for him in the 2020 primary. My point is that not even the DNC wanted him. America is not ready for a super liberal candidate. That is what I was saying.
user
You do not understand what liberal idealism is. Everything you said is liberal idealism. The fact that gradual change can be made my voting for liberal politicians. That is the definition of liberal idealism. I’m confused as to why you’re saying that you’re tired of something that you support.
assistant
I think you’re the one who is confused. I’m talking about the people who won’t vote until they find the magical pro-Palestine/ceasefire, UBI, tax capital gains, free healthcare, free college, police/prison abolitionist, federal marijuana legalization, pro-choice, pro LGBTQ, etc candidate. They live in an ideal fantasy land where you can just take yourself out of the equation because you like neither. Systemic change does not come from just waiting til November and voting third party, or just not voting at all. “That’ll show ‘em!” 

Idealism is basing your judgment on the candidate’s moral values alone before capability, their actual stances, their history, the needs of this country and the world, etc. That is exactly what these people are doing.
user
The whole "incremental change" concept is liberalism. It's dangling a carrot and giving you a nibble every 10 years. We need drastic change not increasing minimum wage a tiny bit every 25 years so they can claim they did enough.
assistant
I mean you’re right, but I guess the crux of the issue is that Kamala has policies that are more progressive than our current system. What she does to implement those is another story. In every possible way, she is the better alternative to Trump, even if she is a horrible liar that only seeks to serve herself.

We cannot achieve drastic change in 4 months. That is the idealism I’m talking about. Yes, we need drastic change, so let’s come up with a plan to tell the DNC to go fuck itself in 2028 (especially for basically not allowing us to have a real primary in order to achieve that drastic change) and get to work on that now.
user
The issue is for months in this community, "better than trump" wasn't an acceptable bar to pass for most people here to even consider voting for. When Oct 7th happened and we saw Biden's reply Hasan even said he will do what he again to campaign against Biden. Kamala might be better than Trump, but I fail to see how on Gaza she's any better than Biden. A few months ago Gaza was enough reason for most others to be single issue voters, now that's all flipped and people who still consider it a single issue worth not giving Kamala their vote, they're told they're delusional and need to touch grass. 

Was it all virtue signaling? I'm getting whiplash from the tone of trashing electoral politics and standing with Gaza to now being downvoted for not voting Kamala. There's nothing socialist about her platform, its the same as Bidens which will just lead into a republican president after her and the cycle will continue. We're more likely to get a progressive if the dems suffer a loss rather then emboldening them showing them the left will fall in line behind their liberal candidates like Kamala.
assistant