Monday, April 26, 2010

British expert: TBH was not murdered

Updated, Wed morning:-

In TBH sudden death inquest: DAP supporters are desperate, blogger Zakhir Mohamad quotes a Bernama report on a threat to Vanezis' life and to his family. The British pathologist lodged a police report against the email threat, which was described by the MACC as "offensive, intimidating and threatening".

Original report: Closing in on the truth. Two foreign pathologists were brought in to observe the 2nd autopsy that was conducted on Teoh Beng Hock after Dr Pornthip's 80 percent-homicide theory. British renowned expert Prof Peter Vanezis came in on behalf of the Malaysian Anti Corruption Commission and Dr Pornthip herself was engaged by the Selangor state government, who was TBH's employer.

This morning, according to The Malay Mail, Vanezis told the inquest into TBH's death that TBH's death was not homicide. And in view that Pornthip has not been able to substantiate her earlier theory that there was an80 percent chance that TBH was murdered, Vanezis' testimony and that of local pathologist who conducted the 2nd autopsy bring us a step closer to the truth about TBH's death.

Read The Malay Mail report h e r e.

Bernama has the report, too:

at April 26, 2010 com'on la Rocky , "a step closer to the truth about TBH's death" ????

So tell us Rocky, in your opinion was TBH jumped off the building all by himself (for no reasons) ??

Goh Wei Liang Maybe that's the real reason why that lady cabut?

Dia tak sangka MACC mampu dapatkan the services of British renowned expert Prof Peter Vanezis?

Mungkin dia bole sama2 gormal dengan itu Gobind and Khalid but not this expert?

10:02 pm zainal abidin awang kechik said...

10:13 pm bila mencari kebenaran perlulah menerima hakikat sebenar. Selepas ini diharapkan tiada lagi tuduhan liar Dan tidak berasas. Dr Porno tak datang Dan buat banyak alasan sehinggakan mahu jaminan bertulis kerajaan kita. Begitu pulak sudahnya, bila dia datang dulu begitu hebat sekali Dan selamat balik ke Thailand. Jadi kenapa sekarang mahukan jaminan bertulis pula. Kerajaan tidak perlu memenuhi kehendak ini kerana risikonya adalah terlalu tinggi. Sebabnya, Dr Porno mungkin mempunyai musuh peribadi atau mungkin juga sesetengah pihak nanti mengambil kesempatan akibat nak menutup malu besar.
Si BABI yang canang Ada orang nak bunuhnya hingga lagi ke Kedutaaan Turki pun masih sihat walafiat sehingga hari ini. Kat Hulu Selangor tu penuh ceramah tiap-tiap malam bukan mati pun. Telur tembelang pun sebiji tak Jena baling.
Kalau kebenaran adalah prinsip
peribadi atau perjuangan maka sewajarnya Dr Porno telah fahami risiko yang menunggunya baik Dari segi keselamatan mahupun imej professionalism beliau. Mungkin bayaran konsultansi belum habis dibaar atau adanya tuntutan VO (minta bayaran lebih) atau tak pernah dibayar lagi.
Mungkin juga macam pengumuman keputusan pilihanraya Hulu Selangor malam tadi. Hanya YB Kamalanathan saja ke pentas tetapi Datuk Zaid terus hilang. Tiada semangat kesukanan langsung sekurang-kurangnya naik juga ke pentas sebagai seorang budiman (gentleman). Yang bertanding adalah diri sendiri bukannya kuda lumba.

Luahan Pemerhati biasa.

10:28 pm donplaypuks® said...

Well, we have two experts with diametrically opposed views.

I am fully convinced that Peter Vanezis IS the intrenationally acknowledged expert his CV says he is and that he's as neutral as you can get. He's not the kind of professional who would lie in any court or bend the evidence or twist the facts.

So too is Dr. Pornthip, regardless of how she's been demonised by the shenanigans of rogue elements in MACC, Parpukari, Unspinners and other pro-establishment bloggers!!

But then this matter of two leading experts in the same field disagreeing is not unique; think of Einstein vs Planck or Einstein vs Neils Bohr!!

We can discount the local expert's views since he was so defensive of the bungling of the earlier PM. It's obvious he's not objective and may well have been intimidated by the enormity of the responsibility thrust upon him!

So, we are no closer to the truth than before.

Kerismudin must ensure pronto that Dr.Pornthip is given the protection and assistance the Justice Dept in Thailand has asked for so she can conclude her testimony in court here! The ball is clearly in PM Najib's court!

Otw, the question mark over TBH's death will continue to hover over MACC and come GE 2013, as in HS, we know where certain votes will continue to migrate to for sure!!

we are all of 1 race, the Human Race He was about to get married with someone who's pregnant.

I'd jump myself.

10:43 pm To Goh Wei Liang,
the issues as raised by Dr Porntip is that there is 80% possibilities that it is homoside by looking at the mark at TBH neck. The second autopsy was done to confirm her theory but it was otherwise shown.
One cannot explain why someone will jump from a building. If you still insist to know why either you go to temple by calling the spirit through a medium (mun Mai) or you go personally to the underworld to ask him. What a moron you are by keep asking why this, why that. Sometime there is no definate answer for things that happen but we try to find the nearest one as possible. Our Malaysian Government have tried their very best. Then again if you have doubt on the British Pathology then you should ask that to Dr Porntip also, right and fair.
Let's continue with our life and kindly let him rest peacefully.

By Goh Chiak Sai la

10:49 pm Since Dr Porntip couldn't come , perhaps DAP should engage bomoh siam instead.

10:51 pm They try to manipulate every thing for their survival.......and the stupid people like Goh Wei Liang will always believe them..

that the real skills of DAPigs...once pig...forever pigs!!

11:38 pm Anak permatang pauh said...

Goh Wei Liang,

...and what are you suggesting? everyone wants the truth, but of course not they way the thai porno star deduced her conclusion. I suppose you and your kind are the ones who are scared of the Truth, that TBH either jumped to his death for he felt utterly guilty of revealing the truth to MACC, or was pushed to death by DAP gangster who was last seen with him, for not wanting TBH to reveal more about DAP corrupt practices.

The biggest sin committed by MACC was its failure to give the highest `protection' to its most `precious' witness. Why would MACC `killed' his own witness.

Ask the two loya nak muntah Go B(eh)ind Sinky and Malik Imtiaz, they should know the whole truth by now. That's why they create the situation for Porno Tit not to appear in Malaysian court.

To Dr.Porntip Malaysians would like to award you the Pinocchio Award as the Best Liar of the Century. The prestigious award will be handed by none other than Kapal Sink, witness by N.Ajis and Lim Kesian.

11:44 pm GWL, stick to the facts of the case will ye. Get yourself a sherlock holmes books if you wanna make up stories.

11:52 pm Cucu said...

Aiyaaa...this British fella, betul ka dia expert? Bukan tipu ka? Dia mesti UMNO punya orang sebab dia punya story tatak sama itu Porntip punya.Aisey Mr.Gobind,what now? How come MACC not the one who kill TBH? How to spin this? Now where's that Tan Boon Wah fella.............

3:06 am Dont forget Rocky, this is who you are now serving:

A shameless 2 page plug/ad in NY Times

6:56 am rocky will believe whomever that supports his pre-conceived notion.

U know what....he is right....he was alive and they pushed him out of the building....remember....they were trying to threaten him and he slipped.

6:59 am No, no, he jumped cos he only had RM3k in his bank account, and he was about to get married to the woman he impregnated.

No need to spin so much for your masters, Rocky. The guilty ones will know and will one day be brought to account for their actions. By none other than the spirit of TBH....and you should be wary of "knock....knock" sounds in the middle of the night....

7:45 am What political pressure? She just cannot face the truth for worry of her bruised reputation.

She doesn't belong in the same league as Dr Venezis.

7:54 am Alhamdullilah MACC has cleared its name.Many more work ahead to be done than concentrating on Porntip,Sawadicap!............wawa Datuk Rock,

That is the truth, THB was not murdered. TBH for all the reasons known to him decided to end his life in that tragic manner. Sad but true.

Kudos to SPRM guys for sticking to what they pledged to do i.e. figthting corruption. If somebody out there thinks differently that is his problem!!

We have spent so much time, space and money. The truth is obviuos and let's move forward.

Maybe the people of Hulu Selangor have realized that this hoo haa is created by the Selangor State for their political stunts....and I said maybe...

ting tong guy

8:40 am yat said...

what do u guys want? local xleh, foreign xleh....and gobind had make an ass of himself in the inquest...

if u guys really want BN to be convicted for murder, just change 'Justice for TBH' to 'Pergi Jahanam BN', tht's more like it....

9:06 am another web of lies by pkr

9:12 am arcadia said...

THEY will never accept it ....

9:37 am Most of us want to know the truth however painful it may be. TBH cannot tell us but his body can with the assistance of the pathologists. And whom do we want to listen? It depends. For the many gullible people out there they prefer to listen to the instant mee "experts" of the cyberworld. These self declared experts apparently know much more than Dr Vanesis, a world renowned forensic expert.

9:53 am Nzain said...

So Pornthip is actually only a half past six pathologist. Definition of half past six..bad, shoddy, slipshod.
Yep. She's certainly that. No wonder she's reluctant to come back.

9:59 am 10:49 am i) i get five men to throw you off the building while u are alive.
ii) you are now dead.
iii) now this guy says u were "conscious" on the way down.

so u rule out murder?? u r terror, man. they pay u well.

11:13 am Old Fart said...

"Beng Hock was fully conscious when he fell and had attempted to break his fall from a height..."

Now, makes me wonder why a suicide victim would want to break his fall?
In other words according to this British expert who is the MACC's pathologist, it was not suicide!!

So if it was not suicide? Was it an accident? Like maybe he was sitting on the ledge and he slipped!! Or maybe there was a ghost in that building that airlifted Beng Hock outside the window and let him have a free fall?

Somehow reading his written opinion, he seems rather pathetic!!

Agree Rocky?

11:45 am kingnek said...

Aku rasa ada teori yang mengatakan TBH tu bunuh diri kerana tak tahan ugutan seorang pemimpin yang dikatakan rapat dengan geng2 underworld

11:51 am Hang Sebat said...

Anonymous 10.00 PM, No need to speculate. There are many ways a person can fall from a building. Let the experts determine what exactly had happened. We are not the experts. We are just mere speculators.

12:14 pm In South Africa, during apartheid many under police custody died of falls, bleeds ect ect, the verdict was there werent murdered. Even Steve Biko, police claimed his death was the result of an extended hunger strike.

Bottomline is, I dont know if Teoh jumped or was killed. What I do know is he died in a police custodial office, and that his watch is missing. Where is Teoh's watch.. did it have legs to run away ??

Ibrahim Tan

1:16 pm Cheong Kah Ling said...

We all are coming closer to the truth!
The unspoken fact within DAP (but no one dares to reveal the truth of face party expulsion) is this - TBH committed suicide because he had earlier found out that his girlfriend was carrying Ean Yong Hian Wah's son.

Add in the pressure from being investigated for corruption, this boy snapped and lost it. He chose to jump and go SPLATTT!! rather than face the truth of raising Ean Yong Hian Wah's child and possible jail term.

This is the truth.

1:22 pm hiduplagi said...

itu je laa modal PR, orang mati pun jadi isu

1:33 pm Bunnies said...

The truth?? We will never know..

We must not discount the fact that this British Expert's opinion is affected prejudicely as he was briefed by MACC pertaining to the way TBH died before he examine or participate in the 2nd autopsy. This is a clear indication of violation of justice. This is also a clear indication that MACC indeed has something to hide.

As for Porntip, well, if the Home Ministry is so sure of her security, why cant they write the much needed guarantee letter demanded by the Thai authority?

Everything in this case doesnt look like the truth is about to be revealed. It looks like a big conspiracy for a mistake that shouldnt have happened. We are far from fair and just.

1:51 pm Stupid brit!

2:17 pm we are MUSLIM lahh..

bukan suka2 nak bunuh org macam geng2 ronnie liu!!

4:14 pm Awang Senior said...

Of couse TBH jumped off the building with reasons (only known to him). It depends on what you want to believe.

4:35 pm wak segen said...

Now they want a written guarantee from the Govt. The Govt will provide and they will say the letter is fake...
Then they will ask for Polis escort.No cannot, Polis can C4 her.
So lastly they demand Datuk Hisham and Datuk Nazri to personally escort her....haa baru ngam....

hehehe jangan marah..

4:59 pm Habib RAK said...

ZAinal Abidin, Now they got Aminul, a 15 year old boy. Masih tak sedar ka u? It can happen to your loved ones also... then I hope nobody say same thing to you.

6:16 pm Rocky, hope you will publish about Aminul. Please la...this must stop. Now they already killing children also.

6:18 pm So, what's next? Pornthip has done her job already by throwing a spanner in the works. Now, she claims pressure from unknown sources are hindering her guess work.

Will the British pathologist be accused of being an UMNO/BN agent?

6:28 pm kassim said...

for a pathologist who can give an 80% sure opinion before actually examining the body, pornthip is no better than those chow kit medicine sellers. the selangor govt and pakatan fanboys should be ashamed of themselves by presenting this 'expert' witness.

6:33 pm "I am not in a position to say categorically, whether or not the deceased had been somehow physically forced out of the window while he was conscious.

wat de fark it this ? stupid qweilo !

7:08 pm Who cares what the British expert said.

Facts does not matter. The chinese already made up their mind

"The malay gomen civil servant murder the chinese kiasu "

Bloody racist!

7:30 pm baDboyzs said...

Blogs have never descended so low as your bru OMG !

Comon man, there is still time to repent ! Money & position is not everything !

7:40 pm Goh Wei Liang...
there is such a thing as suicide, you know, for whatever reason..or only Indians commit suicide and Chinese don't...

9:34 pm eddy said...

Its no longer a mystery why Dr Porntip refuse to come, I think her "expert" testimony will be ripped to shreds under cross examination by the Government counsel with the additional info from the second autopsy. Gobind dan Imtiaz boleh mampu menganga sahjalah.

Yes we are now finally closer to the truth about TBH death as we now now that he was conscious when he fell down the height.

Goh, Dato' Rocky can't tell you how and why TBH jumped lah, that's for the coroner to find out and for you to keep on coming out with your speculations not based on facts as usual.

10:35 pm Goh Wei Liang said...

Haha. The very first comment is evidence of identity theft. I wonder who that person is.

Anyway, I urge all parties not to adopt a convenient truth approach and let us wait for Dr Pornthip's 2nd autopsy report since her 80% claim of homicide came before the autopsy.

Let truth and justice prevail and it is too early to tell whether TBH, MACC or DAP should be held responsible.

Good piece Rockybru.

11:08 pm PR need to create some excitement to entertain their stupid followers.

Haiyaaa.. When "parasites" bergabung dengan "lebih caya ular", they will spin and Kelentong till their last breadth..

1:12 am The reasons as to why he jumped is best left to him,his taikohs, his fiancee?, his unborn and the guy who last saw him in the pantry to reveal.After all, the thought fucked up jumper knows better as to why he jumped as, probably, does the "last alive" witness than the rest of us non-jumpers and non=shovers.

Photographs for autopsy. Well, a certain Peter Venizis has this to say here.

Caution: Such information will ONLY be useful to intelligent, educated and informed folks in search of truth NOT the gutter variety Chingkie who will dismiss it as a western invention and diss it as 'cut and paste' so he can continue slurping pigswill comfortably in his shithole of ignorance, stupidity and prejudice.

Also a write up on Peter Venizis in Lancet available here.

Again such information should only be perused if you are not a racist, bigoted Chingkie idiot.

To those who continue to question the guy's evidence or his credentials, I think it is better to take it up with Lancet,the University of Glasgow, the British Medical Council etc.

To those who harp on the MACC briefing, do remember that Mrs Porn also received a Selangor state government briefing beforehand.

It is apparent why Mrs Porn is playing coy:

1. her sensational allegations based on a set of photos have been shredded as crap.

2. tactical: let Venizis have his say first then cover her tracks by tailoring her evidence accordingly.

3. fear of being exposed as a charlatan based on this. Look under government response and judge for yourselves whether a credible scientist would have spoken like that.

Finally, for those inhabiting cloud cuckoo land, NOTHING, not even a resurrected TBH will ever disabuse them from the collective hypnotic spell cast by Messrs, AI LKS, GS, LGE RL and co just as they are wont to believe that the sliteyed, wispybearded, pig odoured "Son of Heaven" and his menagerie of whores, eunuchs, terra-cottans reside within the pigshitstrewn and urine flooded dungeons of the Forbidden City awaiting the pig squeals on the dawn of the second cumming....

Warrior 231

2:36 am Dear Top Spinner Rocky,

When did the Dr Vanezis said that it was not a suicide? He said the mark on his neck was not from strangulation, but it's possible that he may be strangled without any marks left.

Do not put words into Dr Vanezis mouth. Action should be taken against irresponsible blogger like you.

Shame on you.

No-Name Lah.

7:12 am simone987 said...

10:00 PM

how do you know the dead fella got no reason for jumping? maybe he went to see Anwar secretly in a condo... and one thing lead to another.. and the next thing you know he regretted and couldn't deal with it?

the moral of the story: don't pass judgement if you know nothing about it. other people can also speculate. hate to disrespect dead people, but it's people like you who know nuts love to pass judgement based on your sentiment.

7:31 am as we are not expert in forensic science and you are having masters in Economics it is better to just listen to the experts. Try not to be bipartisan in our judgement. There is no identity theft here and glad that you're such a highly educated person. Sometimes common sense did help a lot yo. Good luck.

8:14 am From where I come from (Singapore),a certain ethnic group are more prone to suicide than others.

Simple reasons like gambling(harassing by ah long)loss of job,business fold up,affairs of the heart,suffering of illnesses,debts from friends etc....will make them decide just like that.Sometimes they take along their children too.

Before, the trend of suicide are jumping off residential govt. flats but lately the trend has changed to jumping off from an in-coming train. Typical,sad.

12:16 pm Ya.. why would someone who is determine to commit suicide tries to break the fall? meaning, why would he chose to want to die than halfway thru, tried to save himself by breaking the fall? Very strange..

1:10 pm Has the coroner made a conclusion?

All this is premature. I can understand why The Malay Mail would want to go to town with this headline (i.e. to sell more newspapers), but I don't see why you also need to.

Furthermore, here is what the good doctor said, I quote from The Malay Mail -

"I am not in a position to say whether the deceased had somehow been physically forced out of the window whilst conscious, although in my view from the evidence I have seen, this appears unlikely." It was also stated in court that the pathologist was unable to find any signs of self-harm marks on Teoh's body, such as cuts or injection puncture marks.

However, Dr Vanezis could not say if Teoh was subjected to intimidation before the fall and stated there were no obvious signs of restraint on the body.

He said even so, a body could be restrained without any mark being left on it.

2:58 pm No Namelah

Stupid fellow like you should be caned for irresponsible and shamelessly stupid comment.The blogger is just reporting the facts.

1. Dr Venezis says that TBH was conscious when he jumped from that window.

2.TBH was conscious when he adopted a defensive stance to break the impact of his fall hence the nature of his injuries which Venezis described in detail based on graphic CT scan data.Most of which match those mentioned

Both (1) and (2) would not have been the case if strangulation had taken place as strangulation would have rendered the individual unconsciusness or semi-conscious at best.

Such is the stupidity of the PR folk that they will grasp any straws to back their silly theories. This case is an open-shut case of suicide. Why? ask the dead man in the afterlife if you have the time.

3:03 pm 3:11 pm The problem is hang tak fasih dalam Bahasa Inggeris;

Dr Vanezis also stressed that Teoh was conscious when he fell because he had tried to break his fall.

"This is a normal reaction from a person falling regardless of their motives or intentions in the first place," he said when questioned by MACC DPP Kevin Morais.

Sebenarnya hang ni fasih BI ke atau sama talaf lengan itu Amoy Adun feeding her dogs with "BOYS EGGS?"

Simple inkelish sentence aloso lu tatak faham, mana SJKC lu peligi cekolah dulu? Damien said...

JUMPPP ... "look ma, i think i casn fly..weeeee!!!!"

10:27 am Ohh dear..

Look at the Pakatan Rakyat Folk..
Desperados man..

Its like that add for Diet Coke.

"She would suck a cock for a diet coke.."

So desperate maaaan..

Sick and Tired

6:10 pm Dear Doctor,

Since you so smart, please do show me when did Dr. Vanezis said that TBH was not murdered?

If you failed to show me, then you are a chicken. And yes, this is a challenge.

Let me see the quotation by Dr Vanezis where he said TBH was not murdered.

No-Name Lah

2:23 am Actually Dato' , in my daily life living amongst them, I noticed they encounter so much problems hence misunderstanding, due to their lack of understanding in our Bahasa Kebangsaan and BI ;

Their language is SUCH, one need to get the whole picture to fully fit in "a" word correctly.

Tapi biasalah, EGO nak tunjuk kononnya dari species ALIEN yang cerdik konon. Betul tak Bunnies?

4 in my family are very fluent in Mandarin and most of your dialects.

Now go to "Google translater" and juggle out, to understand what the sentence means to these species...

.....Dr Vanezis also stressed that Teoh was conscious when he fell because he had tried to break his fall.

"This is a normal reaction from a person falling regardless of their motives or intentions in the first place," he said when questioned by MACC DPP Kevin Morais.......

Dr Vanezis juga menekankan bahawa Teoh sedar ketika ia jatuh kerana dia cuba berehat jatuh nya.

"Ini adalah reaksi normal dari orang jatuh terlepas dari motif atau tujuan di tempat pertama," katanya ketika ditanya oleh kedua Makabe DPP Kevin Morais.

Dr Teoh Vanezis also stressed, so when it fell, as he tried to break his fall.

"This is a normal reaction from the autumn of this year, regardless of their motive or purpose, first of all," he said, the DPP Kevin 莫赖斯马加 than when asked.

They have Simplified and Traditional Chinese!! Ini belum translate dalam Tamil!!

Therefore we get CONFUSED people like Bunnies trying to appear intelligent. This is the answer given by British renowned expert Prof Peter Vanezis.

Let us help google translate and see if you can understand what he said...

"I am not qualified to say whether the deceased was forced to withdraw to some degree by the body, while awareness of the window, although I see from the evidence I have, this seems unlikely." It was also stated in court that a pathologist can not find Teoh institutions, such as cutting or injection puncture marks, any harm their own mark...

No-Name Lah, you must have spent sleepless nights TRYING TO FIGURE OUT what this Prof commented?

Hangpa ni keturunan mengelabah dan lucu sekali...

1:37 pm 6:52 pm Dr Vanezis hardly comes as a reliable Court witness for justice. But the establishment is hardly concerned about that. From a report in the UK, Vanezis is a shabby academic whose reputation and opinion must now be disregarded.

"...Years ago, Vanezis went to court with a brief about a woman's murder that he had not read thoroughly. When asked about the wounds, he read out "stabbed incised wounds". The judge knew that stab wounds and incisions were two different things and admonished him, saying "you don't give a fig about this case".

Professor Vanezis scurried out of court too quickly to pick up his remittance...."

Guardian UK.

.for Justice and Truth.

1:09 pm Either commit suicide or being murdered.. doesn't matter.

What that matters is.. who's get the benefit of TBH's death..?

And of course is not SPRM..they will get the same salary, every month,every year..

The answer is simple.. face it, man.
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