Here are the key moments from the debate that brought Republican presidential candidates head-to-head in North Charleston, S.C. on Jan. 14. (Sarah Parnass/The Washington Post) 
 
 Seven candidates participated in Thursday's 2016 presidential debate in North Charleston, S.C.: Donald Trump, Ben Carson, Sen. Marco Rubio (Fla.), former Florida governor Jeb Bush, Sen. Ted Cruz (Tex.), Ohio Gov. John Kasich and New Jersey governor Chris Christie. 
 
 The complete transcript is posted below. Washington Post reporters and readers using Genius have annotated it, and will continue to do so following the debate. 
 
 To see an annotation, click or tap the highlighted part of the transcript; if you would like to leave your own annotations, make sure you have a Genius account. Post staff annotations will appear by default; others are in a menu that you can see in the upper right when you click or tap on an annotation. 
 
 The debate began after moderators Neil Cavuto and Maria Bartiromo introduced the candidates. 
 
 BARTIROMO: So let's get started. Candidates, jobs and growth -- two of the biggest issues facing the country right now. In his State of the Union address earlier this week, the president said, quote, "we have the strongest, most durable economy in the world." 
 
 And according to our Facebook research, jobs is one of the biggest issues resonating across the country, including here in South Carolina. The president is touting 14 million new jobs and an unemployment rate cut in half. 
 
 The president said that anyone who claims America's economy is in decline is peddling fiction. Senator Cruz, what do you see that he doesn't? 
 
 CRUZ: Well, Maria, thank you for that question, and let me say thank you to the state of South Carolina for welcoming us. 
 
 Let me start -- I want to get to the substance of the question on jobs, but I want to start with something. Today, many of us picked up our newspapers, and we were horrified to see the sight of 10 American sailors on their knees, with their hands on their heads. 
 
 In that State of the Union, President Obama didn't so much as mention the 10 sailors that had been captured by Iran. President Obama's preparing to send $100 billion or more to the Ayatollah Khamenei. And I'll tell you, it was heartbreaking. 
 
 But the good news is the next commander-in-chief is standing on this stage. 
 
 (APPLAUSE) 
 
 CRUZ: And I give you my word, if I am elected president, no service man or service woman will be forced to be on their knees, and any nation that captures our fighting men will feel the full force and fury of the United States of America. 
 
 (APPLAUSE) 
 
 Now, on to your substantive question. The president tried to paint a rosy picture of jobs. And you know, he's right. If you're a Washington lobbyist, if you make your money in and around Washington, things are doing great. The millionaires and billionaires are doing great under Obama. But we have the lowest percentage of Americans working today of any year since 1977. Median wages have stagnated. And the Obama-Clinton economy has left behind the working men and women of this country. 
 
 The reason all of us are here is we believe we should be fighting for the working men and women of this country, and not Washington, D.C. 
 
 BARTIROMO: Thank you, sir. 
 
 (APPLAUSE) 
 
 CAVUTO: Governor Kasich, we are not even two weeks into this stock trading year, but (inaudible) investors already lost $1.6 trillion in market value. That makes it the worst start to a new year ever. Many worry that things will get even worse, and that banks and financial stocks are particularly vulnerable. 
 
 Now, if this escalates, like it did back when Barack Obama first assumed the presidency, what actions would you take if this same thing happens all over again just as, in this example, you are taking over the presidency? 
 
 KASICH: Look, it takes three things basically to grow jobs. And I've done it when I was in Washington when we had a balanced budget; had four years of balanced budgets; paid down a half-trillion of debt. And our economy was growing like crazy. It's the same thing that I did in Ohio. It's a simple formula: common sense regulations, which is why I think we should freeze all federal regulations for one year, except for health and safety. It requires tax cuts, because that sends a message to the job creators that things are headed the right way. And if you tax cuts -- if you cut taxes for corporations, and you cut taxes for individuals, you're going to make things move, particularly the corporate tax, which is the highest, of course, in the -- in the world. 
 
 But in addition to that, we have to have fiscal discipline. We have to show that we can march to a balanced budget. And when you do that, when you're in a position of managing regulations; when you reduce taxes; and when you have fiscal discipline, you see the job creators begin to get very comfortable with the fact that they can invest. 
 
 Right now, you don't have the -- you have taxes that are too high. You have regulations -- I mean, come on, they're affecting everybody here, particularly our small businesses. They are -- they're in a position where they're smothering people. And I mean, are you kidding me? We're nowhere close to a balanced budget or fiscal discipline. 
 
 Those three things put together are going to give confidence to job creators and you will begin to see wages rise. You will begin to see jobs created in a robust economy. And how do I know it? Because I've done it. I did it as the chairman of the Budget Committee, working with Senator Domenici. And I've done it in the state of Ohio as the chief executive. 
 
 Our wages are growing faster than the national average. We're running surpluses. And we can take that message and that formula to Washington to lift every single American to a better life. 
 
 (APPLAUSE) 
 
 BARTIROMO: We know that recent global events have many people worried -- Iran detaining American sailors, forcing them to apologize; North Korea and its nuclear ambitions; an aggressive China; and a Middle East that continues to deteriorate, not to mention ISIS is getting stronger. 
 
 Governor Christie, sometimes it seems the world is on fire. Where and when should a president use military action to restore order? 
 
 CHRISTIE: Well, Maria, I'm glad to have heard from you in the summary of that question about what's going on in the world. Because Tuesday night, I watched story time with Barack Obama. And I've got to tell you, it sounded like everything in the world was going amazing, you know? 
 
 (APPLAUSE) 
 
 The fact is, there's a number of things that the next president is going to have to do to clean up this mess. The first thing is we have to strengthen our alliances around the world. And the best way to do that is to start talking to our allies again and having them be able to count on our word. 
 
 CHRISTIE: Lots of people will say lots of different things about me in this campaign and others, but the one thing they've never said about me is that I'm misunderstood. And so when we talk to our allies and we give them our word, in a Christie administration, they know we're going to keep it. 
 
 Next, we have to talk to our adversaries, and we have to make sure they understand the limits of our patience. And this president, given what Ted said right at the beginning, he's absolutely right. It's a -- it's absolutely disgraceful that Secretary Kerry and others said in their response to what's going on in Iran that this was a good thing; it showed how the relationship was getting better. 
 
 The president doesn't understand -- and by the way, neither does Secretary Clinton -- and here's my warning to everybody out in the audience tonight. If you're worried about the world being on fire, you're worried about how we're going to use our military, you're worried about strengthening our military and you're worried most of all about keeping your homes and your families safe and secure, you cannot give Hillary Clinton a third term of Barack Obama's leadership. 
 
 I will not do that. If I'm the nominee, she won't get within 10 miles of the White House. 
 
 (APPLAUSE) 
 
 BARTIROMO: Just to be clear Governor, where and when would you use military action? 
 
 CHRISTIE: Military action, Maria, would be used when it was absolutely necessary to protect American lives and protect American interests around the world. We are not the world's policeman, but we need to stand up and be ready. 
 
 And the problem, Maria, is that the military is not ready, either. We need to rebuild our military, and this president has let it diminish to a point where tinpot dictators like the mullahs in Iran are taking our Navy ships. It is disgraceful, and in a Christie administration, they would know much, much better than to do that. 
 
 (APPLAUSE) 
 
 CAVUTO: Governor Bush, the president just told the nation two nights ago that America is back and that the idea that our enemies are getting stronger or that this country is getting weaker, well, it's just rhetoric and hot air. Now other Democrats go even further, sir, saying Republicans even suggesting such comments actually embolden our enemies. I guess they would include you. What do you say? 
 
 BUSH: Well first of all, the idea that somehow we're better off today than the day that Barack Obama was inaugurated president of the United States is totally an alternative universe. The simple fact is that the world has been torn asunder. 
 
 Think about it. With grandiose language, the president talks about red lines and nothing to follow it up; talks about ISIS being the JV team, they form a caliphate the size of Indiana with 35 (thousand) to 40,000 battle-tested terrorists. He's missing the whole point, that America's leadership in the world is required for peace and stability. 
 
 In the crowd today is Major General James Livingston, who's the co-chairman of my campaign here in South Carolina, a Medal of Honor recipient. 
 
 (APPLAUSE) 
 
 I've learned from him that what we need to achieve is peace through strength, which means we need to rebuild the military. In this administration, every weapon system has been gutted, in this administration, the force levels are going down to a level where we can't even project force. Our friends no longer think we have their back and our enemies no longer fear us, and we're in a much difficult -- we're in a much different position than we should be. 
 
 And for the life of me, I have no understanding why the president thinks that everything is going well. Terrorism is on the run, China, Russia is advancing their agenda at warp speed, and we pull back. 
 
 As president of the United States, I will be a commander in chief that will have the back of the military. We will rebuild the military to make sure that it is a solid force, not to be the world's policeman, but to make sure that in a peaceful world, people know that the United States is there to take care of our own national interests and take care of our allies. 
 
 (APPLAUSE) 
 
 CAVUTO: So I take it from that you do not agree with the president. 
 
 BUSH: No. And worse -- worse yet, to be honest with you, Hillary Clinton would be a national security disaster. 
 
 Think about it. She wants to continue down the path of Iran, Benghazi, the Russian reset, Dodd-Frank, all the things that have -- that have gone wrong in this country, she would be a national security mess. And that is wrong. 
 
 And you know what? Here's the problem. If she gets elected, she's under investigation with the FBI right now. If she gets elected, her first 100 days, instead of setting an agenda, she might be going back and forth between the White House and the courthouse. We need to stop that. (LAUGHTER) 
 
 (APPLAUSE) 
 
 CAVUTO: Senator Rubio, the president says that ISIS doesn't threaten our national existence like a Germany or a Japan back in World War II, that the terror group is nothing more than twisted souls plotting attacks in their garages. 
 
 But House Homeland Security Committee recently said that over 1,000 ongoing investigations of homegrown extremism in 50 states. So how do you define the threat? Germany then or dangerous nut cases now? 
 
 RUBIO: Yeah, I would go, first of all, one step further in this description of Hillary Clinton. She wouldn't just be a disaster, Hillary Clinton is disqualified from being commander in chief of the United States. 
 
 (APPLAUSE) 
 
 Someone who cannot handle intelligence information appropriately cannot be commander in chief and someone who lies to the families of those four victims in Benghazi can never be president of the United States. Ever. 
 
 (APPLAUSE) 
 
 On the issue of Barack Obama, Barack Obama does not believe that America is a great global power. Barack Obama believes that America is a arrogant global power that needs to be cut down to size. And that's how you get a foreign policy where we cut deals with our enemies like Iran and we betray our allies like Israel and we gut our military and we go around the world like he has done on 10 separate occasions and apologized for America. 
 
 He doesn't understand the threat in ISIS. He consistently underestimates it but I do not. There is a war against ISIS, not just against ISIS but against radical jihadists terrorists, and it is a war that they win or we win. 
 
 When I'm president of the United States, we are going to win this war on ISIS. The most powerful intelligence agency in the world is going to tell us where we are, the most powerful military in the world is going to destroy them. And if we capture any of them alive, they are getting a one-way ticket to Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, and we are going to find out everything they know. 
 
 (APPLAUSE) 
 
 CAVUTO: Thank you, Senator. 
 
 BARTIROMO: Dr. Carson, the president says he does not want to treat ISIS as a foreign army, but ISIS is neither a country nor a government. How do you attack a network that does not respect national borders? 
 
 CARSON: Well, I'm very happy to get a question this early on. I was going to ask you to wake me up when that time came. 
 
 (LAUGHTER) 
 
 You know, I find it really quite fascinating some of the president's proclamations. The fact of the matter is he doesn't realize that we now live in the 21st century, and that war is very different than it used to be before. Not armies massively marching on each other and air forces, but now we have dirty bombs and we have cyber attacks and we have people who will be attacking our electrical grid. And, you know, we have a whole variety of things that they can do and they can do these things simultaneously. And we have enemies who are obtaining nuclear weapons that they can explode in our exoatmosphere and destroy our electric grid. 
 
 I mean, just think about a scenario like that. They explode the bomb, we have an electromagnetic pulse. They hit us with a cyberattack simultaneously and dirty bombs. Can you imagine the chaos that would ensue at that point? He needs to recognize that those kinds of things are in fact an existential threat to us. 
 
 But here's the real key. We have the world's best military, even though he's done everything he can to diminish it. And the fact of the matter is if we give them a mission and we don't tie their hands behind their back, they can get it accomplished. 
 
 (APPLAUSE) 
 
 CAVUTO: Mr. Trump, at the State of the Union, the president pointed to a guest who was a Syrian refugee you might recall whose wife and daughter and other family members were killed in an air attack. Now he fled that country seeking asylum here, ultimately ended up in Detroit where he's now trying to start a new life. 
 
 The president says that that doctor is the real face of these refugees and not the one that you and some of your colleagues on this stage are painting; that you prefer the face of fear and terror and that you would refuse to let in anyone into this country seeking legitimate asylum. How do you answer that? 
 
 TRUMP: It's not fear and terror, it's reality. You just have to look today at Indonesia, bombings all over. 
 
 (APPLAUSE) 
 
 You look at California, you look, frankly, at Paris where there's a -- the strictest no-gun policy of any city anywhere in the world, and you see what happens: 130 people dead with many to follow. They're very, very badly wounded. They will -- some will follow. And you look around, and you see what's happening, and this is not the case when he introduced the doctor -- very nice, everything perfect but that is not representative of what you have in that line of migration. 
 
 That could be the great Trojan Horse. It could be people that are going to do great, great destruction. When I look at the migration, I looked at the line, I said it actually on your show recently, where are the women? It looked like very few women. Very few children. Strong, powerful men, young and people are looking at that and they're saying what's going on? 
 
 TRUMP: You look at the kind of damage that two people that two people that got married, they were radicalized -- they got married, they killed 15 people in actually 15 -- going to be probably 16 but you look at that and you take a look -- a good strong look and that's what we have. We are nineteen trillion dollars -- our country's a mess and we can't let all these people come into our country and break our borders. We can't do it. 
 
 (APPLAUSE) 
 
 BARTIROMO: Senator Cruz, the New York Times is reporting that you failed to properly disclose a million dollars in loans from Goldman Sachs and CitiBank. During your senate race, your campaign said, "it was inadvertent." A million dollars is inadvertent? 
 
 CRUZ: Well Maria, thank you for passing on that hit piece in the front page of the New York Times. You know the nice thing about the mainstream media, they don't hide their views. The New York Times a few weeks back had a columnist who wrote a column saying, "Anybody But Cruz." Had that actually -- that same columnist wrote a column comparing me to an evil demonic spirit from the move, "It Follows" that jumps apparently from body to body possessing people. 
 
 So you know the New York Times and I don't have exactly have the warmest of relationships. Now in terms of their really stunning hit piece, what they mentioned is when I was running for senate -- unlike Hillary Clinton, I don't have masses of money in the bank, hundreds of millions of dollars. When I was running for senate just about every lobbyist, just about all of the establishment opposed me in the senate race in Texas and my opponent in that race was worth over 200 million dollars. He put a 25 million dollar check up from his own pocket to fund that campaign and my wife Heidi and I, we ended up investing everything we owned. 
 
 We took a loan against our assets to invest it in that campaign to defend ourselves against those attacks. And the entire New York times attack -- is that I disclosed that loan on one filing with the United States Senate, that was a public filing. But it was not on a second filing with FDIC and yes, I made a paperwork error disclosing it on one piece of paper instead of the other. But if that's the best the New York Times has got, they better go back to the well. 
 
 BARTIROMO: Thank you. 
 
 (COMMERCIAL BREAK) 
 
 CAVUTO: All right. Welcome back to the Republican presidential debate, right here in North Charleston, South Carolina. Let's get right back to the questions. And I'll start with you, Senator Cruz. 
 
 Now you are, of course, a strict constitutionalist -- no one would doubt that. And as you know, the U.S. Constitution says only natural-born citizens are eligible for the office of president of the United States. Stop me if you've heard this before. Now, you were born... 
 
 (LAUGHTER) 
 
 ... you were born in Canada to an American mother. So you were and are considered an American citizen. But that fellow next to you, Donald Trump -- and others -- have said that being born in Canada means you are not natural-born, and that has raised questions about your eligibility. 
 
 Do you want to try to close this topic once and for all tonight? 
 
 CRUZ: Well, Neil, I'm glad we're focusing on the important topics of the evening. 
 
 (LAUGHTER) 
 
 (APPLAUSE) 
 
 You know, back in September, my friend Donald said that he had had his lawyers look at this from every which way, and there was no issue there. There was nothing to this birther issue. 
 
 (LAUGHTER) 
 
 Now, since September, the Constitution hasn't changed. 
 
 (LAUGHTER) 
 
 But the poll numbers have. 
 
 (APPLAUSE) 
 
 And I recognize -- I recognize that Donald is dismayed that his poll numbers are falling in Iowa. But the facts and the law here are really quite clear. Under longstanding U.S. law, the child of a U.S. citizen born abroad is a natural-born citizen. 
 
 If a soldier has a child abroad, that child is a natural-born citizen. That's why John McCain, even though he was born in Panama, was eligible to run for president. 
 
 If an American missionary has a child abroad, that child is a natural-born citizen. That's why George Romney, Mitt's dad, was eligible to run for president, even though he was born in Mexico. 
 
 At the end of the day, the legal issue is quite straightforward, but I would note that the birther theories that Donald has been relying on -- some of the more extreme ones insist that you must not only be born on U.S. soil, but have two parents born on U.S. soil. 
 
 Under that theory, not only would I be disqualified, Marco Rubio would be disqualified, Bobby Jindal would be disqualified and, interestingly enough, Donald J. Trump would be disqualified. 
 
 (APPLAUSE) 
 
 (UNKNOWN): Not me. 
 
 CRUZ: Because -- because Donald's mother was born in Scotland. She was naturalized. Now, Donald... 
 
 TRUMP: But I was born here. 
 
 CRUZ: ... on the issue -- on the issue of citizenship, Donald... 
 
 TRUMP: (inaudible). Big difference. 
 
 CRUZ: ... on the issue of citizenship, Donald, I'm not going to use your mother's birth against you. 
 
 TRUMP: OK, good. Because it wouldn't work. 
 
 CRUZ: You're an American, as is everybody else on this stage, and I would suggest we focus on who's best prepared to be commander- in-chief, because that's the most important question facing the country. 
 
 (APPLAUSE) 
 
 CAVUTO: Mr. Trump... 
 
 (CROSSTALK) 
 
 CAVUTO: ... that you raised it because of his rising poll numbers. 
 
 TRUMP: ... first of all, let me just tell you something -- and you know, because you just saw the numbers yourself -- NBC Wall Street Journal just came out with a poll -- headline: Trump way up, Cruz going down. I mean, so don't -- so you can't -- you can't... 
 
 (BOOING) 
 
 ... they don't like the Wall Street Journal. They don't like NBC, but I like the poll. 
 
 (LAUGHTER) 
 
 And frankly, it just came out, and in Iowa now, as you know, Ted, in the last three polls, I'm beating you. So -- you know, you shouldn't misrepresent how well you're doing with the polls. 
 
 (APPLAUSE) 
 
 You don't have to say that. In fact, I was all for you until you started doing that, because that's a misrepresentation, number one. 
 
 TRUMP: Number two, this isn't me saying it. I don't care. I think I'm going to win fair and square (inaudible) to win this way. Thank you. 
 
 Lawrence Tribe and (inaudible) from Harvard -- of Harvard, said that there is a serious question as to whether or not Ted can do this. OK? There are other attorneys that feel, and very, very fine constitutional attorneys, that feel that because he was not born on the land, he cannot run for office. 
 
 Here's the problem. We're running. We're running. He does great. I win. I choose him as my vice presidential candidate, and the Democrats sue because we can't take him along for the ride. I don't like that. OK? 
 
 (LAUGHTER) 
 
 The fact is -- and if for some reason he beats the rest of the field, he beats the rest of the field (inaudible). See, they don't like that. They don't like that. 
 
 (AUDIENCE BOOING) 
 
 No, they don't like he beats the rest of the field, because they want me. 
 
 (LAUGHTER) 
 
 But -- if for some reason, Neil, he beats the rest of the field, I already know the Democrats are going to be bringing a suit. You have a big lawsuit over your head while you're running. And if you become the nominee, who the hell knows if you can even serve in office? So you should go out, get a declaratory judgment, let the courts decide. And you shouldn't have mentioned the polls because I would have been much... 
 
 (CROSSTALK) 
 
 CAVUTO: Why are you saying this now -- right now? Why are you raising this issue now? 
 
 TRUMP: Because now he's going a little bit better. No, I didn't care (inaudible). It's true. No, it's true. Hey look, he never had a chance. Now, he's doing better. He's got probably a four or five percent chance. 
 
 (LAUGHTER) 
 
 (CROSSTALK) 
 
 CRUZ: Neil... 
 
 (CROSSTALK) 
 
 TRUMP: The fact is, there is a big overhang. There's a big question mark on your head. And you can't do that to the party. You really can't. You can't do that to the party. You have to have certainty. Even if it was a one percent chance, and it's far greater than one percent because (inaudible). 
 
 I mean, you have great constitutional lawyers that say you can't run. If there was a -- and you know I'm not bringing a suit. I promise. But the Democrats are going to bring a lawsuit, and you have to have certainty. You can't have a question. I can agree with you or not, but you can't have a question over your head. 
 
 CAVUTO: Senator, do you want to respond? 
 
 CRUZ: Well, listen, I've spent my entire life defending the Constitution before the U.S. Supreme Court. And I'll tell you, I'm not going to be taking legal advice from Donald Trump. 
 
 TRUMP: You don't have to. Take it from Lawrence Tribe. 
 
 (APPLAUSE) 
 
 (CROSSTALK) 
 
 TRUMP: Take it from your professors... 
 
 (CROSSTALK) 
 
 CRUZ: The chances of any litigation proceeding and succeeding on this are zero. And Mr. Trump is very focused... 
 
 TRUMP: He's wrong. He's wrong. 
 
 CRUZ: ... on Larry Tribe. Let me tell you who Larry Tribe is. He's a left-wing judicial activist, Harvard Law professor who was Al Gore's lawyer in Bush versus Gore. He's a major Hillary Clinton supporter. And there's a reason why Hillary's supporters are echoing Donald's attacks on me, because Hillary... 
 
 TRUMP: He is not the only one. 
 
 CRUZ: ... wants to face Donald Trump in the general election. 
 
 TRUMP: There are many lawyers. 
 
 CRUZ: And I'll tell you what, Donald, you -- you very kindly just a moment ago offered me the V.P. slot. 
 
 (LAUGHTER) I'll tell you what. If this all works out, I'm happy to consider naming you as V.P. So if you happen to be right, you could get the top job at the end of the day. 
 
 TRUMP: No -- no... 
 
 (LAUGHTER) 
 
 ... I think if it doesn't... 
 
 (APPLAUSE) 
 
 I like that. I like it. I'd consider it. But I think I'll go back to building buildings if it doesn't work out. 
 
 CRUZ: Actually, I'd love to get you to build a wall. 
 
 (CROSSTALK) 
 
 TRUMP: I have a feeling it's going to work out, actually. 
 
 (CROSSTALK) 
 
 RUBIO: Let me (inaudible). I was invoked in that question, so let me just say -- in that answer -- let me say, the real question here, I hate to interrupt this episode of Court TV. 
 
 (LAUGHTER) 
 
 But the real -- but I think we have to get back to what this election has to be about. OK? Listen, we -- this is the greatest country in the history of mankind. But in 2008, we elected a president that didn't want to fix America. He wants to change America. We elected a president that doesn't believe in the Constitution. He undermines it. We elected a president that is weakening America on the global stage. We elected a president that doesn't believe in the free enterprise system. 
 
 This election has to be about reversing all of that damage. That's why I'm running for office because when I become president of the United States, on my first day in office we are going to repeal every single one of his unconstitutional executive orders. When I'm president of the United States we are getting rid of Obamacare and we are rebuilding our military. And when I'm president, we're not just going to have a president that gives a State of the Union and says America is the greatest country in the world. When I'm president, we're going to have a president that acts like it. 
 
 BARTIROMO: Thank you, senator. 
 
 BARTIROMO: Mr. Trump, South Carolina Governor Nikki Haley in her response to the State of the Union address 
 
 (APPLAUSE) 
 
 BARITROMO: appeared to choose sides within the party, saying Republicans should resist, quote, "the siren call of the angriest voices". She confirmed, she was referring to you among others. Was she out of line? And, how would a President Trump unite the party? 
 
 TRUMP: Okay. First of all, Nikki this afternoon said I'm a friend of hers. Actually a close friend. And wherever you are sitting Nikki, I'm a friend. We're friends. That's good. 
 
 (LAUGHTER) 
 
 But she did say there was anger. And I could say, oh, I'm not angry. I'm very angry because our country is being run horribly and I will gladly accept the mantle of anger. Our military is a disaster. 
 
 (APPLAUSE) 
 
 TRUMP: Our healthcare is a horror show. Obamacare, we're going to repeal it and replace it. We have no borders. Our vets are being treated horribly. Illegal immigration is beyond belief. Our country is being run by incompetent people. And yes, I am angry. 
 
 (APPLAUSE) 
 
 TRUMP: And I won't be angry when we fix it, but until we fix it, I'm very, very angry. And I say that to Nikki. So when Nikki said that, I wasn't offended. She said the truth. 
 
 One of your colleagues interviewed me. And said, well, she said you were angry and I said to myself, huh, she's right. I'm not fighting that. I didn't find it offensive at all. I'm angry because our country is a mess. 
 
 (APPLAUSE) 
 
 BARITROMO: But what are you going to do about it? 
 
 CAVUTO: Marco Rubio. I'm sorry, it's the time constraints. You and Governor Christie have been exchanging some fairly nasty words of late, and I will allow the governor to respond as well. 
 
 The governor went so far to say, you won't be able to slime your way to the White House. He's referring to a series of ads done by a PAC, speaking on your behalf, that say quote,"One high tax, Common Core, liberal, energy-loving, Obamacare, Medicaid-expanding president is enough. You think you went too far on that and do you want to apologize to the governor? 
 
 RUBIO: You know, as I said already twice in this debate, we have a very serious problem in this country. 
 
 (APPLAUSE) 
 
 RUBIO: We have a president of the United States that is undermining this country's security and expanding the role of... 
 
 CAVUTO: That is not my question. 
 
 RUBIO: Well, I am going to answer your question, Neil. He is -- this president is undermining the constitutional basis of this government. This president is undermining our military. He is undermining our standing in the world. I like Chris Christie, but we can not afford to have a president of the United States that supports Common Core. 
 
 (APPLAUSE) 
 
 RUBIO: We can not afford to have a president of the United States that supports gun control. This president, this president is more interested in funding -- less interested in funding the military, than he is in funding planned -- he's more interested in funding Planned Parenthood than he is in funding the military. 
 
 Chris Christie wrote a check to Planned Parenthood. All I'm saying is our next president has to be someone that undoes the damage Barack Obama has done to this country. It can not be someone that agrees with his agenda. 
 
 Because the damage he has done to America is extraordinary. Let me tell you, if we don't get this election right, there may be no turning back for America. We're on the verge of being the first generation of Americans that leave our children worse off than ourselves. 
 
 So I just truly, with all my heart belief, I like everybody on the stage. No one is a socialist. No one here is under FBI investigation. So we have a good group of people. 
 
 CAVUTO: Is he a liberal? 
 
 RUBIO: Our next president... 
 
 CAVUTO: Is he a liberal? 
 
 RUBIO: Unfortunately, Governor Christie has endorsed many of the ideas that Barack Obama supports, whether it is Common Core or gun control or the appointment of Sonia Sotomayor or the donation he made to Planned Parenthood. Our next president, and our Republican nominee can not be someone who supports those positions. 
 
 CAVUTO: Governor? 
 
 (APPLAUSE) 
 
 CHRISTIE: I stood on the stage and watched Marco in rather indignantly, look at Governor Bush and say, someone told you that because we're running for the same office, that criticizing me will get you to that office. 
 
 It appears that the same someone who has been whispering in old Marco's ear too. 
 
 (LAUGHTER) 
 
 So the indignation that you carry on, some of the stuff, you have to also own then. So let's set the facts straight. First of all, I didn't support Sonia Sotomayor. Secondly, I never wrote a check to Planned Parenthood. 
 
 Third, if you look at my record as governor of New Jersey, I have vetoed a 50-caliber rifle ban. I have vetoed a reduction this clip size. I vetoed a statewide I.D. system for gun owners and I pardoned, six out-of-state folks who came through our state and were arrested for owning a gun legally in another state so they never have to face charges. 
 
 And on Common Core, Common Core has been eliminated in New Jersey. So listen, this is the difference between being a governor and a senator. See when you're a senator, what you get to do is just talk and talk and talk. And you talk so much that nobody can ever keep up with what you're saying is accurate or not. 
 
 When you're a governor, you're held accountable for everything you do. And the people of New Jersey, I've seen it. 
 
 (APPLAUSE) 
 
 CHRISTIE: And the last piece is this. I like Marco too, and two years ago, he called me a conservative reformer that New Jersey needed. That was before he was running against me. Now that he is, he's changed his tune. 
 
 I'm never going to change my tune. I like Marco Rubio. He's a good guy, a smart guy, and he would be a heck of a lot better president than Hillary Rodham Clinton would ever be. 
 
 (APPLAUSE) 
 
 BUSH: Neil, my name was mentioned here. Neil, my name was mentioned as well. 
 
 Here's the deal, Chris is totally right. He's been a good governor, and he's a heck of a lot better than his predecessor that would have bankrupted New Jersey. 
 
 Everybody on this stage is better than Hillary Clinton. And I think the focus ought to be on making sure that we leave this nomination process, as wild and woolly as it's going to be -- this is not being bad. 
 
 These attack ads are going to be part of life. Everybody just needs to get used to it. Everybody's record's going to be scrutinized, and at the end of the day we need to unite behind the winner so we can defeat Hillary Clinton, because she is a disaster. 
 
 (APPLAUSE) 
 
 Our country rise up again, but we need to have a compelling conservative agenda that we present to the American people in a way that doesn't disparage people, that unites us around our common purpose. 
 
 And so everybody needs to discount some of the things you're going to hear in these ads, and discount the -- the back-and-forth here, because every person here is better than Hillary Clinton. 
 
 CARSON: Neil, I was mentioned too. 
 
 CAVUTO: You were? 
 
 CARSON: Yeah, he said everybody. (LAUGHTER) 
 
 And -- and I just want to take this opportunity to say, you know, in the 2012 election, you know, we -- and when I say we, Republicans -- tore themselves apart. 
 
 You know, we have to stop this because, you know, if we manage to damage ourselves, and we lose the next election, and a progressive gets in there and they get two or three Supreme Court picks, this nation is over as we know it. And we got to look at the big picture here. 
 
 BARTIROMO: Governor Kasich... 
 
 (APPLAUSE) 
 
 ... Governor Kasich, Hillary Clinton is getting some serious competition from Senator Bernie Sanders. He's now at 41 percent in the latest CBS/New York Times poll. Vice President Biden sang his praises, saying Bernie is speaking to a yearning that is deep and real, and he has credibility on it. 
 
 So what does it say about our country that a candidate who is a self-avowed socialist and who doesn't think a 90 percent tax rate is too high could be the Democratic nominee? 
 
 KASICH: Well, if that's the case, we're going to win every state, if Bernie Sanders is the nominee. That's not even an issue. But look... 
 
 (APPLAUSE) 
 
 ... and I know Bernie, and I can promise you he's not going to be president of the United States. So here's this -- the situation, I think, Maria. 
 
 And this is what we have to -- I -- I've got to tell you, when wages don't rise -- and they haven't for a lot of families for a number of years -- it's very, very difficult for them. 
 
 Part of the reason why it hasn't risen because sometimes we're not giving people the skills they need. Sometimes it's because the Federal Reserve kept interest rates so low that the wealthy were able to invest in -- in strong assets like the stock market when everybody else was left behind. 
 
 People are upset about it. I'll tell you what else they're upset about: you're 50 or 51 years old, and some kid walks in and tells you you're out of work, and you don't know where to go and where to turn. Do we have answer for that? We do. There are ways to retrain the 50 and 51-year-olds, because they've got great value. 
 
 I'll tell you what else people are concerned about. Their kids come out of college, they have high debt and they can't get a good job. We got to do a lot about the high cost of high -- higher education, but we've got to make sure we're training people for jobs that exist, that are good jobs that can pay. 
 
 (APPLAUSE) 
 
 Let me tell you that, in this country -- in this country, people are concerned about their economic future. They're very concerned about it. And they wonder whether somebody is getting something to -- keeping them from getting it. 
 
 That's not the America that I've ever known. My father used to say, "Johnny, we never -- we don't hate the rich. We just want to be the rich." And we just got to make sure that every American has the tools, in K-through-12 and in vocational education, in higher education. 
 
 And we got to fight like crazy so people can think the American dream still exists, because it does, with rising wages, with full employment and with everybody in America -- and I mean everybody in America -- having an opportunity to realize the American dream of having a better life than their mother and their father. 
 
 I'm president -- look, I've done it once. I've done it once in Washington, with great jobs and lower taxes. The economy was really booming. 
 
 And now in Ohio, with the same formula, wages higher than the -- than the national average. A growth of 385,000 jobs. 
 
 (BELL RINGS) 
 
 It's not that hard. Just know where you want to go, stick to your guts. Get it done, because our -- our children and grandchildren are counting on us to get it done. And, folks, we will. You count on it. 
 
 BARTIROMO: Dr. Carson, one of the other candidates on this stage has brought Bill Clinton's past indiscretions. Is that a legitimate topic in this election? And what do you think of the notion that Hillary Clinton is an enabler of sexual misconduct? 
 
 CARSON: Well, there's not question that we should be able to look at past president whether they're married to somebody who's running for president or not in terms of their past behavior and what it means. But you know, here's the real issue, is this America anymore? Do we still have standards? Do we still have values and principles? 
 
 You know, you look at what's going on, you see all the divisiveness and the hatred that goes on in our society. You know, we have a war on virtual everything -- race wars, gender wars, income wars, religious wars, age wars. Every war you can imaging, we have people at each other's throat and our strength is actually in our unity. 
 
 You know, you go to the internet, you start reading an article and you go to the comments section -- you cannot go five comments down before people are calling each all manner of names. Where did that spirit come from in America? It did not come from our Judeo-Christian roots, I can tell you that. And wherever it came from we need to start once again recognizing that there is such a thing as right and wrong. And let's not let the secular progressives drive that out of us. 
 
 The majority of people in American actually have values and principles and they believe in the very things that made America great. They've been beaten into submission. It's time for us to stand up for what we believe in. 
 
 (APPLAUSE) 
 
 CAVUTO: Well, we are not done. Coming up, one of the top things people are talking about on Facebook, guns. And you can join us live us on this stage in the conversation during this commercial break right from home. You can go to Facebook.com/(inaudible). We will be streaming live and talking about how we think the debate is going so far. 
 
 CAVUTO: We're back in a moment in Charleston, South Carolina. 
 
 (COMMERCIAL BREAK) 
 
 (APPLAUSE) 
 
 BARTIROMO: Welcome back to the Republican presidential debates, right here in North Charleston. Let's get right back to the questions. 
 
 Governor Bush, gun rights, one of the top issues seen on Facebook with close to 3 million people talking about it in the past month. Right here in Charleston, Dylann Roof, who has been accused of killing nine people in a nearby church, reportedly had not passed his background check when he got his gun. What is the harm in tightening standards for not only who buys guns, but those who sell them? 
 
 BUSH: First of all, I'd like to recognize Governor Haley for her incredible leadership in the aftermath of the -- 
 
 (APPLAUSE) 
 
 BUSH: The Emanuel AME church killings. And I also want to recognize the people in that church that showed the grace of God and the grace of forgiveness and the mercy that they showed. 
 
 (APPLAUSE) 
 
 BUSH: I don't know if any of us could have done what they did, one after another, within 48 hours of that tragedy taking place. Look, here's the deal, in this particular case, the FBI made a mistake. The law itself requires a background check, but that didn't fulfill their part of the bargain within the time that they were supposed to do. 
 
 We don't need to add new rules, we need to make sure the FBI does its job. Because that person should not have gotten a gun, should not -- would not have passed a background check. The first impulse of Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton is to take rights away from law- abiding citizens. 
 
 That's what they do, whether it's the San Bernardino attack or if it's these tragedies that take place, I think we need to focus on what the bigger issue is. It isn't law-abiding gun owners. 
 
 Look, I have an A plus rating in the NRA and we also have a reduction in gun violence because in Florida, if you commit a crime with a gun, you're going away. You're going away for a long, long while. 
 
 And that's what we should focus on is the violence in our communities. Target the efforts for people that are committing crimes with guns, and if you do that, and get it right, you're going to be much better off than creating a political argument where there's a big divide. 
 
 The other issue is mental health. That's a serious issue that we could work on. Republicans and Democrats alike believe this. 
 
 (APPLAUSE) 
 
 BUSH: The president's first impulse is do this by executive order, power he doesn't have. Why not go to Congress and in a bipartisan way, begin to deal with the process of mental health issues so that people that are spiraling out of control because of mental health challenges don't have access to guns. 
 
 (APPLAUSE) 
 
 BARTIROMO: Thank you, sir. 
 
 Mr. Trump, are there any circumstances that you think we should be limiting gun sales of any kind in America? 
 
 TRUMP: No. I am a 2nd amendment person. If we had guns in California on the other side where the bullets went in the different direction, you wouldn't have 14 or 15 people dead right now. 
 
 If even in Paris, if they had guns on the other side, going in the opposite direction, you wouldn't have 130 people plus dead. So the answer is no and what Jeb said is absolutely correct. 
 
 We have a huge mental health problem in this country. We're closing hospitals, we're closing wards, we're closing so many because the states want to save money. We have to get back into looking at what's causing it. The guns don't pull the trigger. It's the people that pull the trigger and we have to find out what is going on. 
 
 (APPLAUSE) 
 
 TRUMP: We have to protect our 2nd amendment and you cannot do this and certainly what Barack Obama was doing with the executive order. He doesn't want to get people together, the old-fashioned way, where you get Congress. You get the Congress, you get the Senate, you get together, you do legislation. He just writes out an executive order. Not supposed to happen that way. 
 
 (APPLAUSE) 
 
 BARTIROMO: Thank you sir. 
 
 XXX where you get Congress. 
 
 TRUMP: You get the Congress. You get the Senate. You get together. You do legislation. He just writes out an order, executive order. It's not supposed to happen that way. 
 
 (APPLAUSE) 
 
 BARTIROMO: Thank you, sir. 
 
 (APPLAUSE) 
 
 CAVUTO: Senator Rubio, you said that President Obama wants to take people's guns away. Yet under his presidency, gun sales have more than doubled. That doesn't sound like a White House unfriendly to gun owners. 
 
 RUBIO: That sounds like people are afraid the president's going to take their guns away. 
 
 (APPLAUSE) 
 
 Look, the Second Amendment is not an option. It is not a suggestion. It is a constitutional right of every American to be able to protect themselves and their families. I am convinced that if this president could confiscate every gun in America, he would. I am convinced that this president, if he could get rid of the Second Amendment, he would. I am convinced because I see how he works with his attorney general, not to defend the Second Amendment, but to figure out ways to undermine it. 
 
 I have seen him appoint people to our courts not to defend the Second Amendment, but to figure out ways to undermine it. 
 
 Here's my second problem. None of these instances that the president points to as the reason why he's doing these things would have been preventive. You know why? Because criminals don't buy their guns from a gun show. They don't buy their guns from a collector. And they don't buy their guns from a gun store. They get -- they steal them. They get them on the black market. 
 
 And let me tell you, ISIS and terrorists do not get their guns from a gun show. These... 
 
 (LAUGHTER) 
 
 (APPLAUSE) 
 
 ... his answer -- you name it. If there's an act of violence in America, his immediate answer before he even knows the facts is gun control. Here's a fact. We are in a war against ISIS. They are trying to attack us here in America. They attacked us in Philadelphia last week. They attacked us in San Bernardino two weeks ago. And the last line standing between them and our families might be us and a gun. 
 
 When I'm president of the United States, we are defending the Second Amendment, not undermining it the way Barack Obama does. 
 
 (APPLAUSE) 
 
 CAVUTO: But what fact can you point to, Senator -- what fact can you point to that the president would take away everyone's gun? You don't think that's (inaudible)? 
 
 RUBIO: About every two weeks, he holds a press conference talking about how he can't wait to restrict people's access to guns. He has never defended... 
 
 (CROSSTALK) 
 
 RUBIO: I'll give you a fact. Well, let me tell you this. Do you remember when he ran for president of the United States, and he was a candidate, and he went and said, "These Americans with traditional values, they are bitter people, and they cling to their guns and to their religion." That tells you right away where he was headed on all of this. 
 
 This president every chance he has ever gotten has tried to undermine the Second Amendment. 
 
 (APPLAUSE) 
 
 He doesn't meet -- here's the difference. When he meets with the attorney general in the White House, it's not "how can we protect the Second Amendment rights of Americans." It's "give me options on how I can make it harder for law-abiding people to buy guns." That will never happen when I am president of the United States. 
 
 (APPLAUSE) 
 
 CAVUTO: Governor Christie, you, too, have criticized the president's recent executive action on gun control, saying it's unconstitutional, another step to bypass Congress. But hasn't your own position on guns evolved, sir? The New Jersey Star-Ledger reports that you signed several laws to regulate the possession of firearms, and that you argued back in August 2013, and I quote, "These common sense measures will strengthen New Jersey's already tough gun laws." 
 
 So isn't that kind of what the president wants to do now? 
 
 CHRISTIE: No, absolutely not. The president wants to do things without working with his Congress, without working with the legislature, and without getting the consent of the American people. And the fact is that that's not a democracy. That's a dictatorship. And we need to very, very concerned about that. 
 
 See, here's the thing. I don't think the founders put the Second Amendment as number two by accident. I don't think they dropped all the amendments into a hat and picked them out of a hat. I think they made the Second Amendment the second amendment because they thought it was just that important. 
 
 The fact is in New Jersey, what we have done is to make it easier now to get a conceal and carry permit. We have made it easier to do that, not harder. And the way we've done it properly through regulatory action, not buy signing unconstitutional executive orders. This guy is a petulant child. That's what he is. I mean, you know... 
 
 (APPLAUSE) 
 
 ... the fact is, Neil, let's think about -- let's think about -- and I want to maybe -- I hope the president is watching tonight, because here's what I'd like to tell him. 
 
 Mr. President, we're not against you. We're against your policies. When you became president, you had a Democratic Congress and a filibuster-proof Democratic Senate. You had only 21 Republican governors in this country. And now after seven years of your policies, we have the biggest majority we've had since the 1920s in the House; a Republican majority in the Senate; and 31 out of 50 Republican governors. 
 
 The American people have rejected your agenda and now you're trying to go around it. That's not right. It's not constitutional. And we are going to kick your rear end out of the White House come this fall. 
 
 (APPLAUSE) 
 
 BARTIROMO: So what is the answer, Senator Cruz, to stop mass shootings and violent crime, up in 30 cities across the country? 
 
 CRUZ: The answer is simple. Your prosecute criminals. You target the bad guys. You know, a minute ago, Neil asked: What has President Obama do -- done to illustrate that he wants to go after guns? 
 
 Well, he appointed Eric Holder as attorney general. Eric Holder said he viewed his mission as brainwashing the American people against guns. He appointed Sonia Sotomayor to the Supreme Court, someone who has been a radical against the Second Amendment right to keep and bear arms. 
 
 He launched Fast and Furious, illegally selling guns to Mexican drug lords that were then used to shoot law enforcement officials. And I'll tell you what Hillary Clinton has said: Hillary Clinton says she agrees with the dissenters -- the Supreme Court dissenters in the Heller case. 
 
 There were four dissenters, and they said that they believe the Second Amendment protects no individual right to keep and bear arms whatsoever, which means, if their view prevailed and the next president's going to get one, two, three, maybe four Supreme Court justices, the court will rule that not a single person in this room has any right under the Second Amendment and the government could confiscate your guns. 
 
 And I'll note that California senator -- Democratic Senator Dianne Feinstein said, if she could say to Mr. America and Mrs. America, "give me your guns, I'm rounding them up," she would. 
 
 And let me make a final point on this. Listen, in any Republican primary, everyone is going to say they support the Second Amendment. Unless you are clinically insane... 
 
 (LAUGHTER) 
 
 ... that's what you say in a primary. But the voters are savvier than that. They recognize that people's actions don't always match their words. I've got a proven record fighting to defend the Second Amendment. 
 
 There's a reason Gun Owners of America has endorsed me in this race. There's a reason the NRA gave me their Carter Knight Freedom Fund award... 
 
 (BELL RINGS) ... and there's a reason, when Barack Obama and Chuck Schumer came after our right to keep and bear arms, that I led the opposition, along with millions of Americans -- we defeated that gun control legislation. 
 
 And I would note the other individuals on this stage were nowhere to be found in that fight. 
 
 BARTIROMO: Senator... 
 
 (APPLAUSE) 
 
 ... let me follow up and switch gears. 
 
 Senator Cruz, you suggested Mr. Trump, quote, "embodies New York values." Could you explain what you mean by that? 
 
 CRUZ: You know, I think most people know exactly what New York values are. 
 
 (LAUGHTER) 
 
 BARTIROMO: I am from New York. I don't. 
 
 CRUZ: What -- what -- you're from New York? So you might not. 
 
 (LAUGHTER) 
 
 But I promise you, in the state of South Carolina, they do. 
 
 (APPLAUSE) 
 
 And listen, there are many, many wonderful, wonderful working men and women in the state of New York. But everyone understands that the values in New York City are socially liberal or pro-abortion or pro- gay-marriage, focus around money and the media. 
 
 And -- and I would note indeed, the reason I said that is I was asked -- my friend Donald has taken to it as (ph) advance playing Bruce Springsteen's "Born in the USA", and I was asked what I thought of that. 
 
 And I said, "well, if he wanted to play a song, maybe he could play, 'New York, New York'?" And -- and -- you know, the concept of New York values is not that complicated to figure out. 
 
 Not too many years ago, Donald did a long interview with Tim Russert. And in that interview, he explained his views on a whole host of issues that were very, very different from the views he's describing now. 
 
 And his explanation -- he said, "look, I'm from New York, that's what we believe in New York. Those aren't Iowa values, but this is what we believe in New York." And so that was his explanation. 
 
 And -- and I guess I can -- can frame it another way. Not a lot of conservatives come out of Manhattan. I'm just saying. 
 
 (LAUGHTER) 
 
 BARTIROMO: Are you sure about that? 
 
 CAVUTO: Maria... 
 
 TRUMP: So conservatives actually do come out of Manhattan, including William F. Buckley and others, just so you understand. 
 
 (APPLAUSE) 
 
 And just so -- if I could, because he insulted a lot of people. I've had more calls on that statement that Ted made -- New York is a great place. It's got great people, it's got loving people, wonderful people. 
 
 When the World Trade Center came down, I saw something that no place on Earth could have handled more beautifully, more humanely than New York. You had two one hundred... 
 
 (APPLAUSE) 
 
 ... you had two 110-story buildings come crashing down. I saw them come down. Thousands of people killed, and the cleanup started the next day, and it was the most horrific cleanup, probably in the history of doing this, and in construction. I was down there, and I've never seen anything like it. 
 
 And the people in New York fought and fought and fought, and we saw more death, and even the smell of death -- nobody understood it. And it was with us for months, the smell, the air. 
 
 TRUMP: And we rebuilt downtown Manhattan, and everybody in the world watched and everybody in the world loved New York and loved New Yorkers. And I have to tell you, that was a very insulting statement that Ted made. 
 
 (APPLAUSE) 
 
 CAVUTO: Governor bush, for the third time in as many months, the Iranians have provoked us, detaining us, as we've been discussing, with these 10 Navy sailors Tehran had said strayed into their waters. The sailors were released, but only after shown on video apologizing for the incident. This occurring only weeks after Iran fired multiple rockets within 1,500 yards of a U.S. aircraft carrier and then continued to test medium range missiles. 
 
 Now you've claimed that such actions indicate Tehran has little to fear from a President Obama. I wonder, sir, what would change if they continued doing this sort of thing under a President Jeb Bush? 
 
 BUSH: Well, first of all, under President Jeb Bush, we would restore the strength of the military. Last week, Secretary Carter announced that the Navy's going to be cut again. It's now half the size of what it was prior to Operation Desert Storm. 
 
 The deployments are too high for the military personnel. We don't have procurement being done for refreshing the equipment. The B-52 is still operational as the long range bomber; it was inaugurated in the age of Harry Truman. The planes are older than the pilots. We're gutting our military, and so the Iranians and the Chinese and the Russians and many other countries look at the United States not as serious as we once were. 
 
 We have to eliminate the sequester, rebuild our military in a way that makes it clear that we're back in the game. 
 
 Secondly, as it relates to Iran, we need to confront their ambitions across the board. We should reimpose sanctions, they've already violated sanctions after this agreement was signed by testing medium-range missiles. 
 
 Thirdly, we need to move our embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem to send a serious signal that we're back in the game with Israel -- 
 
 (APPLAUSE) 
 
 ... and sign an agreement that makes sure that the world knows that they will have technological superiority. 
 
 We need to get back in the game as it relates to our Arab nations. The rest of the world is moving away from us towards other alliances because we are weak. This president and John Kerry and Hillary Clinton all have made it harder for the next president to act, but he must act to confront the ambitions of Iran. We can get back in the game to restore order and security for our own country. 
 
 (APPLAUSE) 
 
 CAVUTO: Thank you, Governor. Governor Kasich, while everyone has been focusing on Iran's provocations, I'm wondering what you make of what Saudi Arabia has been doing and its recent moves in the region, including its execution of a well-known Shi'ite cleric and its move to dramatically increase oil production, some say in an effort to drive down oil prices and force a lot of U.S. oil producers out of business. 
 
 Sure enough, oil prices have tumbled. One brokerage house is predicting a third or more of American oil producers and those heavily invested in fracking will go bankrupt, and soon Saudi Arabia and OPEC will be back in the driver's seat. 
 
 U.S. energy player Harold Hamrie similarly told me with friends like these, who needs enemies? Do you agree? 
 
 KASICH: Well, let me -- let me first of all talk a little bit about my experience. I served on the Defense Committee for 18 years, and by the way, one of the members of that committee was Senator Strom Thurmond from South Carolina. Let em also tell you... 
 
 (APPLAUSE) 
 
 ... that after the 9/11 attacks, Secretary Rumsfeld invited me to the Pentagon with a meeting of the former secretaries of Defense. And in that meeting, I suggested we had a problem with technology, and that I wanted to take people from Silicon Valley into the Pentagon to solve our most significant problems. So I not only had the opportunity to go through the Cold War struggles in Central America, and even after 9/11 to be involved. 
 
 With Saudi Arabia and oil production, first of all, it's so critical for us to be energy independent, and we're getting there because of fracking and we ought to explore because, see, energy independence gives us leverage and flexibility, and secondly, if you want to bring jobs back to the United States of America in industry, low prices make the difference. 
 
 We're seeing it in my state and we'll see it in this country. And that's why we must make sure we continue to frack. 
 
 In terms of Saudi Arabia, look, my biggest problem with them is they're funding radical clerics through their madrasses. That is a bad deal and an evil situation, and presidents have looked the other way. And I was going to tell you, whether I'm president or not, we better make it clear to the Saudis that we're going to support you, we're in relation with you just like we were in the first Gulf War, but you've got to knock off the funding and teaching of radical clerics who are the very people who try to destroy us and will turn around and destroy them. 
 
 (APPLAUSE) 
 
 KASICH: So look, in foreign policy -- in foreign policy, it's strength, but you've got to be cool. You've got to have a clear vision of where you want to go. And I'm going to tell you, that it -- I'm going to suggest to you here tonight, that you can't do on the job training. 
 
 I've seen so much of it - a Soviet Union, the coming down of a wall, the issues that we saw around the world in Central America, the potential spread of communism, and 9/11 and Gulf War. You see what the Saudi's -- deliver them a strong message but at the end of the day we have to keep our cool because most of the time they're going right with us. And they must be part of our coalition to destroy ISIS and I believe we can get that done. 
 
 Thank you. 
 
 CAVUTO: Thank you John. 
 
 BARTIROMO: There's much more ahead including the fight against ISIS. More from Charleston, South Carolina when we come right back. 
 
 (COMMERCIAL BREAK) 
 
 BARTIROMO: We welcome back to the Republican Presidential Debate, right back to the questions. 
 
 Candidates, the man who made fighting ISIS the cornerstone of his campaign, South Carolina Senator, Lindsey Graham is out the race but he joins us tonight in the audience. 
 
 (APPLAUSE) 
 
 He says, "the air-strike now in their 16th month have been ineffective." Dr. Carson ... 
 
 CARSON: Wait a minute, who in their 16th month? 
 
 BARTIROMO: The air-strikes. 
 
 CARSON: OK. 
 
 BARTIROMO: Now in their 16th month are ineffective. Dr. Carson, do you think Senator Graham is right in wanting to send 20,000 troops -- ground troops to Iraq and Syria to take out ISIS? 
 
 CARSON: Well, there's no question that ISIS is a very serious problem, and I don't believe that this administration recognizes how serious it is. 
 
 I think we need to do a lot more than we're doing. Recognize that the caliphate is what gives them the legitimacy to go out on a jihadist mission, so we need to take that away from them. 
 
 The way to take that away from them is to talk to our military officials and ask them, "what do you need in order to accomplish this goal?" 
 
 Our decision is, then, do we give them what we need. I say, yes, not only do we give them what they need, but we don't tie their hands behind their backs so that they can go ahead and get the job done. 
 
 In addition to that... 
 
 (APPLAUSE) 
 
 ... in addition to that, we go ahead and we take the oil from them, their source of revenue. You know, some of these -- these engagement rules that the administration has -- "we're not going to bomb a tanker that's coming out of there because there might be a person in it" -- give me a break. 
 
 Just tell them that, you put people in there, we're going to bomb them. So don't put people in there if you don't want them bombed. You know, that's so simple. 
 
 (APPLAUSE) 
 
 And then we need to shut down -- we need to shut down their mechanisms of funding and attack their command-and-control centers. Why should we let their people be sitting there smoking their cigars, sitting in their comfortable chairs in Raqqa? 
 
 We know (ph) to go ahead and shut off the supply routes, and send in our special ops at 2:00 a.m. and attack them everywhere they go. They should be running all the time, then they won't have time to plan attacks against us. 
 
 (APPLAUSE) 
 
 BARTIROMO: Thank you, sir. Senator Graham has also said that the U.S. will find Arab support for its coalition if it removes Syrian President Bashar al-Assad. And I quote, "The now king of Saudi Arabia told us, 'you can have our army, you just got to deal with Assad.' 
 
 "The emir of Qatar said, 'I'll pay for the operation, but they are not going to fight ISIS and let Damascus fall into the hands of the Iranians. Assad has to go.'" 
 
 Governor Christie, how important is it to remove Assad from power and how would you do it? 
 
 CHRISTIE: Maria, you look at what this president and his secretary of state, Secretary of State Clinton, has done to get us in this spot. You think about it -- this is the president who said, along with his secretary of state -- drew a red line in Syria, said, if Assad uses chemical weapons against his people, that we're going to attack. 
 
 He used chemical weapons, he's killed, now, over a quarter of a million of his own people, and this president has done nothing. In fact, he's done worse than nothing. 
 
 This president -- and, by the way, Secretary Clinton, who called Assad a reformer -- she called Assad a reformer. Now, the fact is, what this president has done is invited Russia to play an even bigger role, bring in Vladimir Putin to negotiate getting those chemical weapons back from Assad, yet what do we have today? 
 
 We have the Russians and the Iranians working together, not to fight ISIS, but to prop up Assad. The fact of the matter is we're not going to have peace -- we are not going to have peace in Syria. We're not going to be able to rebuild it unless we put a no-fly zone there, make it safe for those folks so we don't have to be talking about Syrian refugees anymore. 
 
 The Syrians should stay in Syria. They shouldn't be going to Europe. And here's the last piece... 
 
 (APPLAUSE) 
 
 ... you're not going to have peace in Syria with Assad in charge. You're simply not. And so Senator Graham is right about this. 
 
 And if we want to try to rebuild the coalition, as Governor Kasich was saying before, then what we better do is to get to the Arab countries that believe that ISIS is a threat, not only to them, but to us and to world peace, and bring them together. 
 
 And believe me, Assad is not worth it. And if you're going to leave this to Hillary Clinton, the person who gave us this foreign policy, the architect of it, and you're going to give her another four years, that's why I'm speaking out as strongly as I am about that. 
 
 Hillary Clinton cannot be president. It will lead to even greater war in this world. And remember this, after Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama have had nearly 8 years, we have fewer democracies in the world than we had when they started. 
 
 That makes the world less peaceful, less safe. In my administration, we will help to make sure we bring people together in the Middle East, and we will fight ISIS and defeat them. 
 
 BARTIROMO: Thank you, sir. 
 
 (APPLAUSE) 
 
 Mr. Trump -- Mr. Trump, your comments about banning Muslims from entering the country created a firestorm. According to Facebook, it was the most-talked-about moment online of your entire campaign, with more than 10 million people talking about the issue. 
 
 Is there anything you've heard that makes you want to rethink this position? 
 
 TRUMP: No. 
 
 (LAUGHTER) 
 
 No. 
 
 (APPLAUSE) 
 
 Look, we have to stop with political correctness. We have to get down to creating a country that's not going to have the kind of problems that we've had with people flying planes into the World Trade Centers, with the -- with the shootings in California, with all the problems all over the world. 
 
 TRUMP: I just left Indonesia -- bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb. 
 
 We have to find out what's going on. I said temporarily. I didn't say permanently. I said temporarily. And I have many great Muslim friends. And some of them, I will say, not all, have called me and said, "Donald, thank you very much; you're exposing an unbelievable problem and we have to get to the bottom of it." 
 
 And unlike President Obama, where he refuses even to use the term of what's going on, he can't use the term for whatever reason. And if you can't use the term, you're never going to solve the problem. My Muslim friends, some, said, "thank you very much; we'll get to the bottom of it." 
 
 But we have a serious problem. And we can't be the stupid country any more. We're laughed at all over the world. 
 
 (APPLAUSE) 
 
 BUSH: Donald, Donald -- can I -- I hope you reconsider this, because this policy is a policy that makes it impossible to build the coalition necessary to take out ISIS. The Kurds are our strongest allies. They're Muslim. You're not going to even allow them to come to our country? 
 
 The other Arab countries have a role to play in this. We cannot be the world's policeman. We can't do this unilaterally. We have to do this in unison with the Arab world. And sending that signal makes it impossible for us to be serious about taking out ISIS and restoring democracy in Syria. 
 
 (APPLAUSE) 
 
 So I hope you'll reconsider. I hope you'll reconsider. The better way of dealing with this -- the better way of dealing with this is recognizing that there are people in, you know, the -- Islamic terrorists inside, embedded in refugee populations. 
 
 What we ought to do is tighten up our efforts to deal with the entry visa program so that a citizen from Europe, it's harder if they've been traveling to Syria or traveling to these other places where there is Islamic terrorism, make it harder -- make the screening take place. 
 
 We don't have to have refugees come to our country, but all Muslims, seriously? What kind of signal does that send to the rest of the world that the United States is a serious player in creating peace and security? 
 
 CAVUTO: But you said -- you said that he made those comments and they represented him being unhinged after he made them. 
 
 BUSH: Yeah, they are unhinged. 
 
 CAVUTO: Well -- well, after he made them... 
 
 (APPLAUSE) 
 
 ... his poll numbers went up eight points in South Carolina. Now -- now, wait... 
 
 TRUMP: Eleven points, to be exact. 
 
 CAVUTO: Are you -- are you saying -- are you saying that all those people who agree with Mr. Trump are unhinged? 
 
 BUSH: No, not at all, absolutely not. I can see why people are angry and scared, because this president has created a condition where our national security has weakened dramatically. I totally get that. But we're running for the presidency of the United States here. This isn't -- this isn't, you know, a different kind of job. You have to lead. You cannot make rash statements and expect the rest of the world to respond as though, well, it's just politics. 
 
 Every time we send signals like this, we send a signal of weakness, not strength. And so it was (inaudible) his statement, which is why I'm asking him to consider changing his views. 
 
 (APPLAUSE) 
 
 TRUMP: I want security for this country. OK? 
 
 (APPLAUSE) 
 
 I want security. I'm tired of seeing what's going on, between the border where the people flow over; people come in; they live; they shoot. I want security for this country. We have a serious problem with, as you know, with radical Islam. We have a tremendous problem. It's not only a problem here. It's a problem all over the world. 
 
 I want to find out why those two young people -- those two horrible young people in California when they shot the 14 people, killed them -- people they knew, people that held the wedding reception for them. I want to find out -- many people saw pipe bombs and all sorts of things all over their apartment. Why weren't they vigilant? Why didn't they call? Why didn't they call the police? 
 
 And by the way, the police are the most mistreated people in this country. I will tell you that. 
 
 (APPLAUSE) 
 
 The most mistreated people. In fact, we need to -- wait a minute -- we need vigilance. We have to find out -- many people knew about what was going on. Why didn't they turn those two people in so that you wouldn't have had all the death? 
 
 There's something going on and it's bad. And I'm saying we have to get to the bottom of it. That's all I'm saying. We need security. 
 
 BARTIROMO: We -- we want to hear from all of you on this. According to Pew Research, the U.S. admits more than 100,000 Muslim immigrants every single year on a permanent lifetime basis. I want to ask the rest of you to comment on this. Do you agree that we should pause Muslim immigration until we get a better handle on our homeland security situation, as Mr. Trump has said? 
 
 Beginning with you, Governor Kasich. 
 
 KASICH: I -- I've been for pausing on admitting the Syrian refugees. And the reasons why I've done is I don't believe we have a good process of being able to vet them. But you know, we don't want to put everybody in the same category. 
 
 KASICH: And I'll go back to something that had been mentioned just a few minutes ago. If we're going to have a coalition, we're going to have to have a coalition not just of people in the western part of the world, our European allies, but we need the Saudis, we need the Egyptians, we need the Jordanians, we need the Gulf states. We need Jordan. 
 
 We need all of them to be part of exactly what the first George Bush put together in the first Gulf War. 
 
 (BELL RINGS) 
 
 It was a coalition made up of Arabs and Americans and westerners and we're going to need it again. And if we try to put everybody in the same -- call everybody the same thing, we can't do it. And that's just not acceptable. 
 
 But I think a pause on Syrian refugees has been exactly right for all the governors that have called for it, and also, of course, for me as the governor of Ohio. 
 
 BARTIROMO: Thank you, sir, we want to hear from the rest of you, 
 
 Governor Christie, your take. 
 
 CHRISTIE: Now Maria, listen. I said right from the beginning that we should take no Syrian refugees of any kind. And the reason I said that is because the FBI director told the American people, told Congress, that he could not guarantee he could vet them and it would be safe. That's the end of the conversation. 
 
 I can tell you, after spending seven years as a former federal prosecutor, right after 9/11, dealing with this issue. Here's the way you need to deal with it. You can't just ban all Muslims. You have to ban radical Islamic jihadists. You have to ban the people who are trying to hurt us. 
 
 The only way to figure that out is to go back to getting the intelligence community the funding and the tools that it needs to be able to keep America safe. 
 
 (BELL RINGS) 
 
 And this summer, we didn't do that. We took it away from the NSA, it was a bad decision by the president. Bad by those in the Senate who voted for it and if I'm president, we'll make our intelligence community strong, and won't have to keep everybody out, we're just going to keep the bad folk out and make sure they don't harm us. 
 
 BARTIROMO: Senator Rubio, where do you stand? 
 
 RUBIO: Well, first of all, let's understand why we are even having this debate and why Donald tapped in to some of that anger that's out there about this whole issue. Because this president has consistently underestimated the threat of ISIS. 
 
 If you listen to the State of the Union the other night, he described them as a bunch of guys with long beards on the back of a pickup truck. They are much more than that. This is a group of people that enslaves women and sells them, sells them as brides. 
 
 This is a group of people that burns people in cages, that is conducting genocide against Christians and Yazidis and others in the region. This is not some small scale group. 
 
 They are radicalizing people in the United States, they are conducting attacks around the world. So you know what needs to happen, it's a very simple equation, and it's going to happen when I'm president. If we do not know who you are, and we do not know why you are coming when I am president, you are not getting into the United States of America. 
 
 (APPLAUSE) 
 
 BARTIROMO: Senator Cruz, where do you stand? Senator Cruz? 
 
 CRUZ: You know I understand why Donald made the comments he did and I understand why Americans are feeling frustrated and scared and angry when we have a president who refuses to acknowledge the threat we face and even worse, who acts as an apologist for radical Islamic terrorism. 
 
 I think what we need is a commander in chief who is focused like a laser on keeping this country safe and on defeating radical Islamic terrorism. What should we do? First, we should pass the Expatriate Terrorist Act, legislation I've introduced that says if an American goes and joins ISIS and wages jihad against America, that you forfeit your citizenship and you can not come in on a passport. 
 
 (APPLAUSE) 
 
 CRUZ: And secondly, we should pass the legislation that I've introduced... 
 
 (BELL RINGS) 
 
 ... that suspends all refugees from nations that ISIS or Al Qaida controls significant territory. Just last week, we see saw two Iraqi refugees vetted using the same process the president says will work, that were arrested for being alleged ISIS terrorists. 
 
 If I'm elected president, we will not let in refugees from countries controlled by ISIS or Al Qaida. When it comes to ISIS, we will not weaken them, we will not degrade them, we will utterly and completely destroy ISIS 
 
 (APPLAUSE). 
 
 BARTIROMO: Dr. Carson, where do you stand? Do you agree with Mr. Trump? 
 
 CARSON: Well, first of all, recognize it is a substantial problem. But like all of our problems, there isn't a single one that can't be solved with common sense if you remove the ego and the politics. And clearly, what we need to do is get a group of experts together, including people from other countries, some of our friends from Israel, who have had experience screening these people and come up with new guidelines for immigration, and for visas, for people who are coming into this country. 
 
 That is the thing that obviously makes sense, we can do that. And as far as the Syrians are concerned, Al-Hasakah province, perfect place. They have infrastructure. All we need to do is protect them, they will be in their own country. 
 
 And that is what they told me when I was in Jordan in November. Let's listen to them and let's not listen to our politicians. 
 
 BARTIROMO: So, to be clear, the both of you do not agree with Mr. Trump? 
 
 BUSH: So, are we going to ban Muslims from India, from Indonesia, from countries that are strong allies -- that we need to build better relationships with? Of course not. What we need to do is destroy ISIS. 
 
 I laid out a plan at the Citadel to do just that and it starts with creating a "No Fly Zone" and "Safe Zones" to make sure refugees are there. We need to lead a force, a Sunni led force inside of Syria. We need to embed with -- with the Iraqi military. We need to arm the Kurds the directly. We need to re-establish the relationships with the Sunnis. 
 
 We need the lawyers(ph) off the back of the war fighters. That's how you solve the problem. You don't solve it by big talk where you're banning all Muslims and making it harder for us to build the kind of coalition for us to be successful. 
 
 BARTIROMO: Thank you governor. 
 
 CAVUTO: Mr. Trump, sometimes maybe in the heat of the campaign, you say things and you have to dial them back. Last week, the New York Times editorial board quoted as saying that you would oppose, "up to 45 percent tariff on Chinese goods." 
 
 TRUMP: That's wrong. They were wrong. It's the New York Times, they are always wrong. 
 
 CAVUTO: Well... 
 
 TRUMP: They were wrong. 
 
 CAVUTO: You never said because they provided that... 
 
 TRUMP: No, I said, " I would use -- " they were asking me what to do about North Korea. China, they don't like to tell us but they have total control -- just about, of North Korea. They can solve the problem of North Korea if they wanted to but they taunt us. 
 
 They say, " well, we don't really have control." Without China, North Korea doesn't even eat. China is ripping us on trade. They're devaluing their currency and they're killing our companies. Thousands of thousands -- you look at the number of companies and the number in terms of manufacturing of plans that we've lost -- 50,000 because of China. 
 
 (CROSSTALK) 
 
 CAVUTO: So they've never said to put a tariff on their... TRUMP: We've lost anywhere between four and seven million jobs because of China. What I said then was, "we have very unfair trade with China. We're going to have a trade deficit of 505 billion dollars this year with China." A lot of that is because they devalue their currency. 
 
 What I said to the New York Times, is that, "we have great power, economic power over China and if we wanted to use that and the amount -- where the 45 percent comes in, that would be the amount they saw their devaluations that we should get." That we should get. 
 
 What I'm saying is this, I'm saying that we do it but if they don't start treating us fairly and stop devaluing and let their currency rise so that our companies can compete and we don't lose all of these millions of jobs that we're losing, I would certainly start taxing goods that come in from China. Who the hell has to lose 505 billion dollars a year? 
 
 CAVUTO: I'm sorry, you lost me. 
 
 TRUMP: It's not that complicated actually. 
 
 CAVUTO: Then I apologize. Then I want to understand, if you don't want a 45 percent tariff, say that wasn't the figure, would you be open -- are you open to slapping a higher tariff on Chinese goods of any sort to go back at them? 
 
 TRUMP: OK, just so you understand -- I know so much about trading about with China. Carl Icon today as you know endorsed. Many businessmen want to endorse me. 
 
 CAVUTO: I know... 
 
 TRUMP: Carl said, "no, no -- " but he's somebody -- these are the kind of people that we should use to negotiate and not the China people that we have who are political hacks who don't know what they're doing and we have problems like this. If these are the kinds of people -- we should use our best and our finest. 
 
 Now, on that tariff -- here's what I'm saying, China -- they send their goods and we don't tax it -- they do whatever they want to do. They do whatever what they do, OK. When we do business with China, they tax us. You don't know it, they tax us. 
 
 I have many friends that deal with China. They can't -- when they order the product and when they finally get the product it is taxed. If you looking at what happened with Boeing and if you look at what happened with so many companies that deal -- so we don't have an equal playing field. I'm saying, absolutely, we don't have to continue to lose 505 billion dollars as a trade deficit for the privilege of dealing with China. 
 
 I'm a free trader. I believe in it but we have to be smart and we have to use smart people to negotiate. I have the largest bank in the world as a tenant of mine. I sell tens' of millions of (inaudible). 
 
 I love China. I love the Chinese people but they laugh themselves, they can't believe how stupid the American leadership is. 
 
 CAVUTO: So you're open to a tariff? 
 
 TRUMP: I'm totally open to a tariff. If they don't treat us fairly, hey, their whole trade is tariffed. You can't deal in China without tariffs. They do it to us, we don't it. It's not fair trade. 
 
 KASICH: Neil, Neil -- can I say one thing about this. I'm a free trader. I support NAFTA. I believe in the PTT because it's important those countries in Asia are interfacing against China. And we do need China -- Donald's right about North Korea. 
 
 I mean the fact is, is that they need to put the pressure on and frankly we need to intercepts ships coming out of North Korea so they don't proliferate all these dangerous materials. But what he's touching -- talking about, I think has got merit. And I'll allow putting that tariff or whatever he's saying here... 
 
 TRUMP: I'm happy to have him tonight... 
 
 (LAUGHTER) 
 
 KASICH: For too long -- no, for too long, what happens is somebody dumps their product in our country and take our people's jobs, and then we go to an international court and it takes them like a year or two to figure out whether they were cheating us. And guess what? The worker's out of a job. 
 
 So when they -- be found against that country that's selling products in here lower than the cost of what it takes to produce them, then what do we tell the worker? Oh, well, you know, it just didn't work out for you. 
 
 I think we should be for free trade but I think fair trade. And when countries violate trade agreements or dump product in this country, we need -- we need to stand up against those countries that do that without making them into an enemy. 
 
 And I want to just suggest to you. How do I know this? Because so many people in my family worked in steel mills, and they didn't work with a white collar, they worked in a blue collar. And the fact is those jobs are critical, they're hard working members of the middle class and they need to be paid attention to because they're Americans and they carry the load. So let's demand open trade but fair trade in this country. That's what I think we need to do. 
 
 (APPLAUSE) 
 
 CAVUTO: All right. 
 
 RUBIO: But on this point, if I may add something on this point. We are all frustrated with what China is doing. I think we need to be very careful with tariffs, and here's why. 
 
 China doesn't pay the tariff, the buyer pays the tariff. If you send a tie or a shirt made in China into the United States and an American goes to buy it at the store and there's a tariff on it, it gets passed on in the price to price to the consumer. 
 
 So I think the better approach, the best thing we can do to protect ourselves against China economically is to make our economy stronger, which means reversing course from all the damage Barack Obama is doing to this economy. 
 
 It begins with tax reform. Let's not have the most expensive business tax rate in the world. Let's allow companies to immediately expense. 
 
 (APPLAUSE) 
 
 It continues with regulatory reform. Regulations in this country are out of control, especially the Employment Prevention Agency, the EPA, and all of the rules they continue to impose on our economy and hurting us. 
 
 How about Obamacare, a certified job killer? It needs to be repealed and replaced. And we need to bring our debt under control, make our economy stronger. That is the way to deal with China at the end of the day. 
 
 TRUMP: Neil, the problem... 
 
 BARTIROMO: We're getting... 
 
 TRUMP: ... with what Marco is saying is that it takes too long, they're sucking us dry and it takes too long. It would just -- you absolutely have to get involved with China, they are taking so much of what we have in terms of jobs in terms of money. We just can't do it any longer. 
 
 CAVUTO: He is right. If you put a tariff on a good, it's Americans who pay. 
 
 BUSH: Absolutely. 
 
 TRUMP: You looking at me? 
 
 BUSH: Yeah. 
 
 BARTIROMO: Prices go higher for... 
 
 TRUMP: Can I tell you what? It will never happen because they'll let their currency go up. They're never going to let it happen. 
 
 Japan, the same thing. They are devaluing -- it's so impossible for -- you look at Caterpillar Tractor and what's happening with Caterpillar and Kamatsu (ph). Kamatsu (ph) is a tractor company in Japan. Friends of mine are ordering Kamatsu (ph) tractors now because they've de-valued the yen to such an extent that you can't buy a Caterpillar tractor. And we're letting them get away with it and we can't let them get away with it. 
 
 And that's why we have to use Carl (ph) and we have to use our great businesspeople and not political hacks to negotiate with these guys. 
 
 (APPLAUSE) 
 
 BUSH: Here's -- apart from the -- apart from the higher prices on consumers and people are living paycheck to paycheck, apart from that, there will be retaliation. 
 
 BARTIROMO: Yeah. 
 
 BUSH: So they soybean sales from Iowa, entire soybean production goes -- the equivalent of it goes to China. Or how about Boeing right here within a mile? Do you think that the Chinese, if they had a 45 percent tariff imposed on all their imports wouldn't retaliate and start buying Airbus? Of course, they would. This would be devastating for the economy. We need someone with a steady hand being president of the United States. 
 
 BARTIROMO: Real quick, Senator -- go ahead, Senator Cruz. 
 
 (APPLAUSE) 
 
 And then we have to get to tax reform. 
 
 TRUMP: And we don't need a weak person being president of the United State, OK? Because that's what we'd get if it were Jeb -- I tell you what, we don't need that. 
 
 AUDIENCE: Boo. 
 
 TRUMP: We don't need that. That's essentially what we have now, and we don't need that. And that's why we're in the trouble that we're in now. And by the way, Jeb you mentioned Boeing, take a look. They order planes, they make Boeing build their plant in China. They don't want them made here. They want those planes made in China. 
 
 BUSH: They're a mile away from here. 
 
 TRUMP: That's not the way the game is supposed to be played. 
 
 BARTIROMO: Thank you, Governor Bush. Thank you, Mr. Trump. Very briefly. 
 
 BUSH: My name was mentioned. My name was mentioned here. The simple fact is that the plane that's being build here is being sold to China. You can -- if you -- you flew in with your 767, didn't you? Right there, right next to the plant. 
 
 TRUMP: No, the new planes. I'm not talking about now, I'm talking about in the future they're building massive plants in China because China does not want Boeing building their planes here, they want them built in China, because China happens to be smart the way they do it, not the way we do it. 
 
 BARTIROMO: Thank you, Mr. Trump. 
 
 BUSH: When you head back to airport tonight, go check and see what the... 
 
 BARTIROMO: Thank you, Mr. Trmup. Thank you, Governor. 
 
 TRUMP: I'll check for you. 
 
 BUSH: Check it out. 
 
 (LAUGHTER) 
 
 BARTIROMO: Senator briefly. 
 
 CRUZ: Thanks for coming back to me, Maria. Both Donald and Jeb have good points, and there is a middle ground. Donald is right that China is running over President Obama like he is a child, President Obama is not protecting American workers and we are getting hammered. 
 
 CRUZ: You know, I sat down with the senior leadership of John Deere. They discussed how -- how hard it is to sell tractors in China, because all the regulatory barriers. They're protectionist. 
 
 But Jeb is also right that, if we just impose a tariff, they'll put reciprocal tariffs, which will hurt Iowa farmers and South Carolina producers and 20 percent of the American jobs that depend on exports. 
 
 So the way you do it is you pass a tax plan like the tax plan I've introduced: a simple flat tax, 10 percent for individuals, and a 16 percent business flat tax, you abolish the IRS... 
 
 (APPLAUSE) 
 
 ... and here's the critical point, Maria -- the business flat tax enables us to abolish the corporate income tax, the death tax, the Obamacare taxes, the payroll taxes, and they're border-adjustable, so every export pays no taxes whatsoever. 
 
 It's tax-free -- a huge advantage for our farmers and ranchers and manufacturers -- and every import pays the 16 percent business flat tax. It's like a tariff, but here's the difference: if we impose a tariff, China responds. 
 
 The business flat tax, they already impose their taxes on us, so there's no reciprocal... 
 
 (BELL RINGS) 
 
 ... tariffs that come against us. It puts us on a level, even playing field, which brings jobs here at home... 
 
 (UNKNOWN): Maria... 
 
 CRUZ: ... and as president, I'm going to fight for the working men and women. 
 
 (CROSSTALK) 
 
 BARTIROMO: We've got to get to tax reform, gentlemen. We've got to get to tax reform, and we've got to get to the... 
 
 (UNKNOWN): Yeah, but I want to talk about taxes. 
 
 BARTIROMO: ... we've got to get to the national debt as well. Coming up next, the growing national debt, the war on crime, tax reform. More from North Charleston, South Carolina, when we come right back. 
 
 COMMERCIAL BREAK) 
 
 BARTIROMO: Welcome back to the Republican presidential debate here in North Charleston. Right back to the questions. 
 
 (APPLAUSE) 
 
 Governor Christie, we have spoken much about cutting spending, given the $19 trillion debt. But according to one report, America needs $3.6 trillion in infrastructure spending by 2020. 
 
 Here in South Carolina, 11 percent of bridges are considered structurally deficient, costing drivers a billion dollars a year in auto repairs. What is your plan to fix the ailing roads and bridges without breaking the bank? 
 
 CHRISTIE: Well, I'm glad you asked that, Maria. Here's -- here's our plan. We've all been talking about tax reforms tonight, and paying for infrastructure is caught right up in tax reform. 
 
 If you reform the corporate tax system in this country, which, as was mentioned before, is the highest rate in the world -- and we double tax, as you know. 
 
 And what that's led to over $2 trillion of American companies' monies that are being kept offshore, because they don't want to pay the second tax. And who can blame them? They pay tax once overseas. They don't want to pay 35 percent tax on the way back. 
 
 So beside reforming that tax code, bringing it down to 25 percent and eliminating those special-interest loopholes that the lobbyists and the lawyers and the accountants have given -- bring that rate down to 25 percent, but also, a one-time repatriation of that money. 
 
 Bring the money -- the $2 trillion -- back to the United States. We'll tax it, that one time, at 8.75 percent, because 35 percent of zero is zero, but 8.75 percent of $2 trillion is a lot of money. And I would then dedicate that money to rebuilding infrastructure here in this country. 
 
 It would not necessitate us raising any taxes. It would bring the money back into the United States to help build jobs by American companies and get our economy moving again, and growing as a higher rate, and it would rebuild those roads and bridges and tunnels that you were talking about. And -- and -- and the last piece of this, Maria, is this. You know, the fact is that this president has penalized corporations in America. He's penalized -- and doesn't understand. In fact, what that hurts is hurt hardworking taxpayers. 
 
 You've seen middle-class wages go backwards $3,700 during the Obama administration. That's wrong for hardworking taxpayers in this country. We'd rebuild infrastructure that would also create jobs in this country, and we'd work with the states to do it the right way, to do it more efficiently and more effectively. 
 
 And remember this -- I'm credible on this for this reason: Americans for Tax Reform says that I've vetoed more tax increases than any governor in American history. We don't need to raise taxes to get this done. 
 
 We need to make the government run smarter and better, and reform this corporate tax system, bring that money back to the United States to build jobs and rebuild our infrastructure, and we need to use it also to protect our grid from terrorists. 
 
 All of those things are important, and all those things would happen in a Christie administration. 
 
 BARTIROMO: Thank you, sir. Dr. Carson... 
 
 (APPLAUSE) 
 
 ... it is true U.S. companies have $2 trillion in cash sitting overseas right now. That could be used for investment and jobs in America. 
 
 Also, several companies right now are pursuing mergers to move their corporate headquarters abroad, and take advantage of much lower taxes. What will you do to stop the flow of companies building cash away from America, and those leaving America altogether? 
 
 CARSON: Well, I would suggest a fair tax system, and that's what we have proposed. A flat tax for everybody -- no exemptions, no deductions, no shelters, because some people have a better capability of taking advantage of those than others. 
 
 You know, and then the other thing we have to do is stop spending so much money. You know, I -- my -- my mother taught me this. You know, she only had a third-grade education, but -- you know, she knew how to stretch a dollar. 
 
 I mean, she would drive a car until it wouldn't make a sound, and then gather up all her coins and buy a new car. In fact, if my mother were secretary of treasury, we would not be in a deficit situation. But... 
 
 (LAUGHTER) 
 
 ... you know, the -- the -- the fact of the matter is -- you know, if we fix the taxation system, make it absolutely fair, and get rid of the incredible regulations -- because every regulation is a tax, it's a -- on goods and services. And it's the most regressive tax there is. 
 
 You know, when you go into the store and buy a box of laundry detergent, and the price has up -- you know, 50 cents because of regulations, a poor person notices that. A rich person does not. Middle class may notice it when they get to the cash register. 
 
 And everything is costing more money, and we are killing our -- our -- our people like this. And Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton will say it's those evil rich people. 
 
 It's not the evil rich people. It's the evil government that is -- that is putting all these regulations on us so that we can't survive. 
 
 (APPLAUSE) 
 
 BARTIROMO: Thank you, sir. 
 
 Senator Rubio... 
 
 TRUMP: Maria -- Maria, what you were talking about just now is called corporate inversion. It's one of the biggest problems our country has. Right now, corporations, by the thousands, are thinking of leaving our country with the jobs -- leave them behind. 
 
 TRUMP: They're leaving because of taxes, but they are also leaving because they can't get their money back and everybody agrees, Democrats and Republicans, that is should come back in. But they can't get along. They can't even make a deal. 
 
 Here is the case, they both agree, they can't make a deal. We have to do something. Corporate inversion is one of the biggest problems we have. So many companies are going to leave our country. 
 
 BARTIROMO: Which is why we raised it. 
 
 Senator Rubio? 
 
 Thank you, Mr. Trump. 
 
 TRUMP: Thank you. 
 
 BARTIROMO: One of the biggest fiscal challenges is our entitlement programs, particularly Social Security and Medicare. What policies will you put forward to make sure these programs are more financially secure? 
 
 RUBIO: Well, first let me address the tax issue because it's related to the entitlement issue and I want to thank you for holding a substantive debates where we can have debates about these key issues on taxes. 
 
 (APPLAUSE) 
 
 RUBIO: Here is the one thing I'm not going to do. I'm not going to have something that Ted described in his tax plan. It's called the value added tax. And it's a tax you find in many companies in Europe. 
 
 Where basically, businesses now will have to pay a tax, both on the money they make, but they also have to pay taxes on the money that they pay their employees. 
 
 And that's why they have it in Europe, because it is a way to blindfolded the people, that's what Ronald Reagan said. Ronald Regan opposed the value tax because he said it was a way to blindfold the people, so the true cost of government was not there there for them. 
 
 Now, you can support one now that's very low. But what is to prevent a future liberal president or a liberal Congress from coming back and not just raising the income tax, but also raising that VAT tax, and that vat tax is really bad for seniors. Because seniors, if they are retired, are no longer earning an income from a job. And therefore, they don't get the income tax break, but their prices are going to be higher, because the vat tax is embedded in both the prices that business that are charging and in the wages they pay their employees. 
 
 When I am president of the United States, I'm going to side with Ronald Regan on this and not Nancy Pelosi and we are not having a vat tax. 
 
 (APPLAUSE) 
 
 BARTIROMO: Thank you senator. 
 
 CRUZ: Maria, I assume that I can respond to that. 
 
 BARTIROMO: Senator Cruz, yes. You were meant to. Yes, of course. 
 
 CRUZ: Well, Marco has been floating this attack for a few weeks now, but the problem is, the business flat tax in my proposal is not a vat. A vat is imposed as a sales tax when you buy a good. 
 
 This is a business flat tax. It is imposed on business and a critical piece that Marco seems to be missing is that this 16 percent business flat tax enables us to eliminate the corporate income tax. It goes away. It enables us to eliminate the death tax. 
 
 If you're a farmer, if you're a rancher, if you are small business owner, the death tax is gone. We eliminate the payroll tax, we eliminate the Obamacare taxes. And listen, there is a real difference between Marco's tax plan and mine. 
 
 Mine gives every American a simple, flat tax of 10 percent. Marco's top tax rate is 35 percent. My tax plan enables you to fill out your taxes on a postcard so we can abolish the IRS. Marco leaves the IRS code in with all of the complexity. We need to break the Washington cartel, and the only way to do it is to end all the subsidies and all... 
 
 (BELL RINGS) 
 
 ... the mandates and have a simple flat tax. The final observation, invoked Ronald Reagan. I would note that Art Laffer, Ronald Reagan's chief economic adviser, has written publicly, that my simple flat tax is the best tax plan of any of the individuals on this stage cause it produces economic growth, it raises wages and it helps everyone from the very poorest to the very richest. 
 
 BARTIROMO: Thank you senator. 
 
 (APPLAUSE) 
 
 RUBIO: But that's not an accurate description of the plan. Because, first of all, you may rename the IRS but you are not going to abolishes the IRS, because there has to be some agency that's going to collect your vat tax. Someone's going to be collecting this tax. 
 
 In fact, Ronald Reagan's treasury, when Ronald Reagan's treasury looked at the vat tax, you know what they found? That they were going to have to hire 20,000 new IRS agencies to collect it. 
 
 The second point, it does not eliminate the corporate tax or the payroll tax. Businesses will now have to pay 16 percent on the money they make. They will also have to pay 16 percent on the money they pay their employees. 
 
 So there are people watching tonight in business. If you are now hit on a 60 percent tax on both your income and on the wages you pay your employees, where are you going to get that money from? You're going to get it by paying your employees less and charging your customers more, that is a tax, the difference is, you don't see it on the bill. 
 
 And that's why Ronald Reagan said that it was a blindfold. You blindfold the American people so that they cannot see the true cost of government. Now 16 percent is what the rate Ted wants it at. But what happens if, God forbid, the next Barack Obama takes over, and the next Nancy Pelosi, and the next Harry Reid... 
 
 (BELL RINGS) 
 
 and they decide, we're going to raise it to 30 percent, plus we're going to raise the income tax to 30 percent. Now, you've got Europe. 
 
 (CROSSTALK) 
 
 BARTIROMO: Thank you senator. I have to get to a question for Mr. Trump. 
 
 CRUZ: Maria... 
 
 BARTIROMO: Yes. 
 
 CRUZ: Maria, I'd just like to say... 
 
 (CROSSTALK) 
 
 CHRISTIE: Maria, I'd like to interrupt this debate on the floor of the Senate to actually answer the question you asked, which was on entitlements. Do you remember that, everybody? This was a question on entitlements. 
 
 And the reason -- and the reason... 
 
 (CROSSTALK) 
 
 CHRISTIE: ... no, you already had your chance, Marco, and you blew it. Here's the thing. 
 
 (CROSSTALK) 
 
 CHRISTIE: The fact is, the reason why... 
 
 RUBIO: If you'll answer the (inaudible) core question. 
 
 CHRISTIE: ... the fact is -- the fact is the reason why that no one wants to answer entitlements up here is because it's hard. It's a hard problem. And I'm the only one up on this stage who back in April put forward a detailed entitlement reform plan that will save over $1 trillion, save Social Security, save Medicare, and avoid this -- avoid what Hillary Rodham Clinton will do to you. 
 
 Because what she will do is come in and she will raise Social Security taxes. Bernie Sanders has already said it. And she is just one or two more poll drops down from even moving further left than she's moved already to get to the left of Bernie on this. 
 
 We have seniors out there who are scared to death because this Congress -- this one that we have right now, just stole $150 billion from the Social Security retirement fund to give it to the Social Security disability fund. A Republican Congress did that. 
 
 And the fact is it was wrong. And they consorted with Barack Obama to steal from Social Security. We need to reform Social Security. Mine is the only plan that saves over $1 trillion and that's why I'm answering your question. 
 
 BARTIROMO: Thank you, Governor. Thank you, Governor. 
 
 (APPLAUSE) CARSON: Can I just add one very quick thing? And I just want to say, you know, last week we released our tax plan. And multiple reputable journals, including The Wall Street Journal, said ours is the best. Just want to get that out there, just saying. 
 
 BARTIROMO: Thank you, Dr. Carson. 
 
 Coming up, how would the candidates protect America, and another terror attack, if we were to see it. But first, you can join us live on stage during the commercial break right from home. Go to facebook.com/foxbusiness. We'll be streaming live and answering your questions during this break next. 
 
 More from South Carolina coming up. Stay with us. 
 
 (COMMERCIAL BREAK) 
 
 BARTIROMO: Mr. Trump, your net worth is in the multi-billions of dollars and have an ongoing thriving hotel and real estate business. Are you planning on putting your assets in a blind trust should you become president? With such vast wealth, how difficult will it be for you to disentangle yourself from your business and your money and prioritize America's interest first? 
 
 TRUMP: Well, it's an interesting question because I'm very proud of my company. As you too know, I know I built a very great company. But if I become president, I couldn't care less about my company. It's peanuts. 
 
 I want to use that same up here, whatever it may be to make America rich again and to make America great again. I have Ivanka, and Eric and Don sitting there. Run the company kids, have a good time. I'm going to do it for America. 
 
 So I would -- I would be willing to do that. 
 
 BARTIROMO: So you'll put your assets in a blind trust? 
 
 TRUMP: I would put it in a blind trust. Well, I don't know if it's a blind trust if Ivanka, Don and Eric run it. If that's a blind trust, I don't know. But I would probably have my children run it with my executives and I wouldn't ever be involved because I wouldn't care about anything but our country, anything. 
 
 BARTIROMO: Thank you sir. 
 
 TRUMP: Thank you. 
 
 CAVUTO: Governor Christie, going back to your U.S. Attorney days, you had been praised by both parties as certainly a tough law and order guy. So I wonder what you make of recent statistics that showed violent crimes that have been spiking sometimes by double digit ratings in 30 cities across the country. Milwaukee Police Chief Ed Flynn said, "most local law enforcement officials feel abandoned by Washington." Former NYC Police Chief Ray Kelly, says that, "police are being less proactive because they're being overly scrutinized and second guessed and they're afraid of being sued or thrown in jail." 
 
 What would you do as president to address this? 
 
 CHRISTIE: Well, first off, let's face it, the FBI director James Comey was a friend of mine who I worked with as U.S. Attorney of New Jersey. He was the U.S. Attorney in Manhattan. He said, "there's a chill wind blowing through law enforcement in this country." Here's why, the president of the United States and both his attorney's general, they give the benefit of the doubt to the criminal, not to the police officers. 
 
 That's the truth of the matter and you see it every time with this president. Every time he's got a chance, going all the way back to -- remember that Great Beer Summit he had after he messed up that time. This is a guy who just believes that law enforcement are the bad guys. 
 
 Now, I for seven years was the U.S. Attorney of New Jersey. I worked hard with not only federal agents but with police officers and here's the problem, sanctuary cities is part of the problem in this country. That's where crime is happening in these cities where they don't enforce the immigration laws. And this president turns his back -- this president doesn't enforce the marijuana laws in this country because he doesn't agree with them. 
 
 And he allows states to go ahead and do whatever they want on a substance that's illegal. This president allows lawlessness throughout this country. Here's what I would do Neil, I would appoint an Attorney General and I would have one very brief conversation with that Attorney General. I'd say, "General, enforce the law against everyone justly, fairly, and aggressively. Make our streets safe again. Make our police officers proud of what they do but more important than that, let them know how proud we are of them." 
 
 We do that, this country would be safe and secure again not only from criminals but from the terrorist who threaten us as well. I'm the only person on this stage who's done that and we will get it done as President of the United States. 
 
 CAVUTO: Thank you governor. 
 
 Governor Kasich, as someone has to deal with controversial police shootings in your own state, what do you make of Chicago's move recently to sort of retrain police? Maybe make them not so quick to use their guns? 
 
 KASICH: Well, I created a task force well over a year ago and the purpose was to bring law enforcement, community people, clergy and the person that I named as one of the co-chair was a lady by the name of Nina Turner, a former State Senator, a liberal Democrat. She actually ran against one of my friends and our head of public safety. 
 
 KASICH: And they say down as a group trying to make sure that we can begin to heal some of these problems that we see between community and police. 
 
 KASICH: And they came back with 23 recommendations. One of them is a statewide use of deadly force. And it is now being put into place everyplace across the state of Ohio. Secondly, a policy on recruiting and hiring, and then more resources for -- for training. 
 
 But let me also tell you, one of the issues has got to be the integration of both community and police. Community has to understand that that police officer wants to get home at night, and not -- not to lose their life. Their family is waiting for them. 
 
 At the same time, law enforcement understands there are people in the community who not only think that the system doesn't work for them, but works against them. 
 
 See, in Ohio, we've had some controversial decisions. But the leaders have come forward to realize that protest is fine, but violence is wrong. And it has been a remarkable situation in our state. And as president of the United States, it's all about communication, folks. It's all about getting people to listen to one another's problems. 
 
 And when you do that, you will be amazed at how much progress you can make, and how much healing we can have. Because, folks, at the end of the day, the country needs healed. I've heard a lot of hot rhetoric here tonight, but I've got to tell you, as somebody that actually passed a budget; that paid down a half-a-trillion dollars of our national debt, you can't do it alone. You've got to bring people together. You've got to give people hope. 
 
 And together, we can solve these problems that hurt us and heal America. And that is what's so critical for our neighborhoods, our families, our children, and our grandchildren. 
 
 (APPLAUSE) 
 
 CAVUTO: Thank you, Governor. 
 
 BARTIROMO: Senator Rubio? 
 
 (APPLAUSE) 
 
 Under current law, the U.S. is on track to issue more new permanent immigrants on green cards over the next five years than the entire population of South Carolina. The CBO says your 2013 immigration bill would have increased green cardholders by another 10 million over 10 years. 
 
 Why are you so interested in opening up borders to foreigners when American workers have a hard enough time finding work? 
 
 RUBIO: Well, first of all, this is an issue that's been debated now for 30 years. And for 30 years, the issue of immigration has been about someone who's in this country, maybe they're here illegally, but they're looking for a job. This issue is not about that anymore. 
 
 First and foremost, this issue has to be now more than anything else about keeping America safe. And here's why. There is a radical jihadist group that is manipulating our immigration system. And not just green cards. They're looking -- they're recruiting people that enter this country as doctors and engineers and even fiances. They understand the vulnerabilities we have on the southern border. 
 
 They're looking -- they're looking to manipulate our -- the visa waiver countries to get people into the United States. So our number one priority must now become ensuring that ISIS cannot get killers into the United States. So whether it's green cards or any other form of entry into America, when I'm president if we do not know who you are or why you are coming, you are not going to get into the United States of America. 
 
 BARTIROMO: So your thinking has changed? 
 
 RUBIO: The issue is a dramatically different issue than it was 24 months ago. Twenty-four months ago, 36 months ago, you did not have a group of radical crazies named ISIS who were burning people in cages and recruiting people to enter our country legally. They have a sophisticated understanding of our legal immigration system and we now have an obligation to ensure that they are not able to use that system against us. 
 
 The entire system of legal immigration must now be reexamined for security first and foremost, with an eye on ISIS. Because they're recruiting people to enter this country as engineers, posing as doctors, posing as refugees. We know this for a fact. They've contacted the trafficking networks in the Western Hemisphere to get people in through the southern border. And they got a killer in San Bernardino in posing as a fiance. 
 
 This issue now has to be about stopping ISIS entering the United States, and when I'm president we will. 
 
 BARTIROMO: Thank you, Senator. 
 
 (APPLAUSE) 
 
 CRUZ: But Maria, radical Islamic terrorism was not invented 24 months ago; 24 months ago, we had Al Qaida. We had Boko Haram. We had Hamas. We had Hezbollah. We had Iran putting operatives in South America and Central America. It's the reason why I stood with Jeff Sessions and Steve King and led the fight to stop the Gang of Eight amnesty bill, because it was clear then, like it's clear now, that border security is national security. 
 
 (APPLAUSE) 
 
 BARTIROMO: Thank you, Senator. 
 
 CRUZ: It is also the case that that Rubio-Schumer amnesty bill, one of the things it did is it expanded Barack Obama's power to let in Syrian refugees. It enabled him -- the president to certify them en masse without mandating meaningful background checks. 
 
 I think that's a mistake. That's why I've been leading the fight to stop it. And I would note the Senate just a few weeks ago voted to suspend refugees from Middle Eastern countries. I voted yes to suspend that. Marco voted on the other side. So you don't get to say we need to secure the borders, and at the same time try to give Barack Obama more authority to allow Middle Eastern refugees coming in, when the head of the FBI tells us they cannot vet them to determine if they are ISIS terrorists. 
 
 RUBIO: Maria, let me clear something up here. This is an interesting point when you talk about immigration. 
 
 RUBIO: Ted Cruz, you used to say you supported doubling the number of green cards, now you say that you're against it. You used to support a 500 percent increase in the number of guest workers, now you say that you're against it. You used to support legalizing people that were here illegally, now you say you're against it. You used to say that you were in favor of birthright citizenship, now you say that you are against it. 
 
 And by the way, it's not just on immigration, you used to support TPA, now you say you're against it. I saw you on the Senate floor flip your vote on crop insurance because they told you it would help you in Iowa, and last week, we all saw you flip your vote on ethanol in Iowa for the same reason. 
 
 (APPLAUSE) 
 
 That is not consistent conservatism, that is political calculation. When I am president, I will work consistently every single day to keep this country safe, not call Edward Snowden, as you did, a great public servant. Edward Snowden is a traitor. And if I am president and we get our hands on him, he is standing trial for treason. 
 
 (APPLAUSE) 
 
 And one more point, one more point. Every single time that there has been a Defense bill in the Senate, three people team up to vote against it. Bernie Sanders, Rand Paul and Ted Cruz. In fact, the only budget you have ever voted for, Ted, in your entire time in the Senate is a budget from Rand Paul that brags about how it cuts defense. 
 
 Here's the bottom line, and I'll close with this. If I'm president of the United States and Congress tries to cut the military, I will veto that in a millisecond. 
 
 (APPLAUSE) 
 
 BUSH: There's -- look, there's -- 
 
 CAVUTO: Gentlemen, gentlemen -- 
 
 CRUZ: I'm going to get a response to that, Neil. There's no way he launches 11 attack -- 
 
 CAVUTO: Very quick, very quick. CRUZ: I'm going to -- he had no fewer than 11 attacks there. I appreciate your dumping your (inaudible) research folder on the debate stage. 
 
 RUBIO: No, it's your record. 
 
 CRUZL But I will say -- 
 
 CAVUTO: Do you think they like each other? 
 
 CRUZ: -- at least half of the things Marco said are flat-out false. They're absolutely false. 
 
 AUDIENCE: Boo. 
 
 CRUZ: So let's start -- let's start with immigration. Let's start with immigration and have a little bit of clarity. Marco stood with Chuck Schumer and Barack Obama on amnesty. I stood with Jeff Sessions and Steve King. Marco stood today, standing on this stage Marco supports legalization and citizenship for 12 million illegals. I opposed and oppose legalization and citizenship. 
 
 And by the way, the attack he keeps throwing out on the military budget, Marco knows full well I voted for his amendment to increase military spending to $697 billion. What he said, and he said it in the last debate, it's simply not true. And as president, I will rebuild the military and keep this country safe. 
 
 CAVUTO: All right, gentlemen, we've got to stop. I know you are very passionate about that. 
 
 (APPLAUSE) 
 
 Governor Bush, fears have gripped this country obviously, and you touched on it earlier since the San Bernardino attacks. Since our last debate, the national conversation has changed, according to Facebook data as well. 
 
 Now this first graphic shows the issues that were most talked about right before those attacks and now after: the issues of Islam, homeland security and ISIS now loom very large. The FBI says Islamic radicals are using social media to communicate and that it needs better access to communication. Now the CEO of Apple, Governor, Tim Cook said unless served with a warrant private communication is private, period. Do you agree, or would you try to convince him otherwise? 
 
 BUSH: I would try to convince him otherwise, but this last back and forth between two senators -- back bench senators, you know, explains why we have the mess in Washington, D.C. We need a president that will fix our immigration laws and stick with it, not bend with the wind. 
 
 The simple fact is one of the ways, Maria, to solve the problem you described is narrow the number of people coming by family petitioning to what every other country has so that we have the best and the brightest that come to our country. We need to control the border, we need to do all of this in a comprehensive way, not just going back and forth and talking about stuff -- 
 
 CAVUTO: Would you answer this question? 
 
 BUSH: Oh, I'll talk about that, too. But you haven't asked me a question in a while, Neil, so I thought I'd get that off my chest if you don't mind. 
 
 (LAUGHTER) 
 
 CAVUTO: Fair enough. So Tim Cook -- so Tim Cook says he's going to keep it private. 
 
 BUSH: I got that. And the problem today is there's no confidence in Washington, D.C. There needs to be more than one meeting, there needs to complete dialogue with the large technology companies. They understand that there's a national security risk. We ought to give them a little bit of a liability release so that they share data amongst themselves and share data with the federal government, they're not fearful of a lawsuit. 
 
 We need to make sure that we keep the country safe. This is the first priority. The cybersecurity challenges that we face, this administration failed us completely, completely. Not just the hacking of OPM, but that is -- that is just shameful. 23 million files in the hands of the Chinese? So it's not just the government -- the private sector companies, it's also our own government that needs to raise the level of our game. 
 
 We should put the NSA in charge of the civilian side of this as well. That expertise needs to spread all across the government and there needs to be much more cooperation with our private sector. 
 
 CAVUTO: But if Tim cook is telling you no, Mr. President. 
 
 BUSH: You've got to keep asking. You've got to keep asking because this is a hugely important issue. If you can encrypt messages, ISIS can, over these platforms, and we have no ability to have a cooperative relationship -- 
 
 CAVUTO: Do you ask or do you order? 
 
 BUSH: Well, if the law would change, yeah. But I think there has to be recognition that if we -- if we are too punitive, then you'll go to other -- other technology companies outside the United States. And what we want to do is to control this. 
 
 We also want to dominate this from a commercial side. So there's a lot of balanced interests. But the president leads in this regard. That's what we need. We need leadership, someone who has a backbone and sticks with things, rather than just talks about them as though anything matters when you're talking about amendments that don't even actually are part of a bill that ever passed. 
 
 CAVUTO: Governor, thank you. 
 
 (APPLAUSE) 
 
 BARTIROMO: When we come right back, closing statements. Stay with us. 
 
 (COMMERCIAL BREAK) 
 
 BARTIROMO: Welcome back. 
 
 Candidates, it is time for your closing statements. You get 60 seconds each. 
 
 Governor John Kasich, we begin with you. 
 
 KASICH: You know, in our country, there are a lot of people who feel as though they just don't have the power. You know, they feel like if they don't have a lobbyist, if they're not wealthy, that somehow they don't get to play. 
 
 But all of my career, you know, having been raised in -- by a mailman father whose father was a coal miner, who died of black lung and was losing his eyesight; or a mother whose mother could barely speak English. You see, all of my career, I've fought about giving voice to the people that I grew up with and voice to the people that elected me. 
 
 Whether it's welfare reform and getting something back for the hard-earned taxpayers; whether it's engaging in Pentagon reform and taking on the big contractors that were charging thousands of dollars for hammers and screw drivers and ripping us off; or whether it's taking on the special interests in the nursing home industry in Ohio, so that mom and dad can have the ability to stay in their own home, rather than being forced into a nursing home. 
 
 KASICH: Look, that's who I stand up for. That's who's in my mind 
 
 (BELL RINGS) 
 
 And if you really want to believe that you can get your voice back, I will tell you, as I have all my career, I will continue to fight for you, because you're the ones that built this country, and will carry it into the future. Thank you. 
 
 (APPLAUSE) 
 
 CAVUTO: Governor Bush? 
 
 BUSH: Who can you count on to keep us safer, stronger and freer? Results count, and as governor, I pushed Florida up to the top in terms of jobs, income and small business growth. 
 
 Detailed plans count, and I believe that the plan I've laid out to destroy ISIS before the tragedies of San Bernardino and Paris are the right ones. 
 
 Credibility counts. There'll be people here that will talk about what they're going to do. I've done it. I ask for your support to build, together, a safer and stronger America. 
 
 (APPLAUSE) 
 
 BARTIROMO: Governor Chris Christie? 
 
 CHRISTIE: Maria, Neil, thank you for a great debate tonight. 
 
 When I think about the folks who are out there at home tonight watching, and I think about what they had to watch this week -- the spectacle they had to watch on the floor of the House of Representatives, with the president of the United States, who talked a fantasy land about the way they're feeling. 
 
 They know that this country is not respected around the world anymore. They know that this country is pushing the middle class, the hardworking taxpayers, backwards, and they saw a president who doesn't understand their pain, and doesn't have any plan for getting away from it. 
 
 I love this country. It's the most exceptional country the world has ever known. We need someone to fight for the people. We need a fighter for this country again. 
 
 I've lived my whole life fighting -- fighting for things that I believe in, fighting for justice and to protect people from crime and terrorism, fighting to stand up for folks who have not had enough and need an opportunity to get more, and to stand up and fight against the special interests. 
 
 But here's the best way that we're going to make America much more exceptional: it is to make sure we put someone on that stage in September who will fight Hillary Clinton and make sure she never, ever gets in the White House again. 
 
 I am the man who can bring us together to do that, and I ask for your vote. 
 
 (APPLAUSE) 
 
 CAVUTO: Dr. Ben Carson? 
 
 CARSON: You know, in recent travels around this country, I've encountered so many Americans who are discouraged and angry as they watch our freedom, our security and the American dream slipping away under an unresponsive government that is populated by bureaucrats and special interest groups. 
 
 We're not going to solve this problem with traditional politics. The only way we're going to solve this problem is with we, the people. And I ask you to join me in truth and honesty and integrity. Bencarson.com -- we will heal, inspire and revive America for our children. 
 
 (APPLAUSE) 
 
 BARTIROMO: Senator Marco Rubio? 
 
 RUBIO: You know, 200 years ago, America was founded on this powerful principle that our rights don't come from government. Our rights come from God. 
 
 That's why we embraced free enterprise, and it made us the most prosperous people in the history of the world. That's why we embraced individual liberty, and we became the freest people ever, and the result was the American miracle. 
 
 But now as I travel the country, people say what I feel. This country is changing. It feels different. We feel like we're being left behind and left out. 
 
 And the reason is simple: because in 2008, we elected as president someone who wasn't interested in fixing America. We elected someone as president who wants to change America, who wants to make it more like the rest of the world. 
 
 And so he undermines the Constitution, and he undermines free enterprise by expanding government, and he betrays our allies and cuts deals with our enemies and guts our military. And that's why 2016 is a turning point in our history. If we elect Hillary Clinton, the next four years will be worse than the last eight, and our children will be the first Americans ever to inherit a diminished country. 
 
 But if we elect the right person -- if you elect me -- we will turn this country around, we will reclaim the American dream and this nation will be stronger and greater than it has ever been. 
 
 (APPLAUSE) 
 
 CAVUTO: Senator Ted Cruz? 
 
 CRUZ: "13 Hours" -- tomorrow morning, a new movie will debut about the incredible bravery of the men fighting for their lives in Benghazi and the politicians that abandoned them. I want to speak to all our fighting men and women. 
 
 I want to speak to all the moms and dads whose sons and daughters are fighting for this country, and the incredible sense of betrayal when you have a commander-in-chief who will not even speak the name of our enemy, radical Islamic terrorism, when you have a commander-in- chief who sends $150 billion to the Ayatollah Khamenei, who's responsible for murdering hundreds of our servicemen and women. 
 
 I want to speak to all of those maddened by political correctness, where Hillary Clinton apologizes for saying all lives matter. This will end. It will end on January 2017. 
 
 CRUZ: And if I am elected president, to every soldier and sailor and airman and marine, and to every police officer and firefighter and first responder who risk their lives to keep us safe, I will have your back. 
 
 (APPLAUSE) 
 
 BARTIROMO: Mr. Donald Trump? 
 
 TRUMP: I stood yesterday with 75 construction workers. They're tough, they're strong, they're great people. Half of them had tears pouring down their face. They were watching the humiliation of our young ten sailors, sitting on the floor with their knees in a begging position, their hands up. 
 
 And Iranian wise guys having guns to their heads. It was a terrible sight. A terrible sight. And the only reason we got them back is because we owed them with a stupid deal, $150 billion. If I'm president, there won't be stupid deals anymore. 
 
 We will make America great again. We will win on everything we do. Thank you. 
 
 (APPLAUSE) 
 
 BARTIROMO: Candidates, thank you. 
 
 CAVUTO: Gentlemen, thank you all. All of you. That wraps up our debate. We went a little bit over here. But we wanted to make sure everyone was able to say their due. He's upset. All right. Thank you for joining us. Much more to come in the Spin Room ahead. ||||| Republican presidential candidates from left, Jim Gilmore, Lindsey Graham, Bobby Jindal, Rick Perry, Rick Santorum, Carly Fiorina, and George Pataki take the stage for a pre-debate forum at the Quicken Loans Arena, Thursday, Aug. 6, 2015, in Cleveland. Seven of the candidates have not qualified for the primetime debate. (AP Photo/Andrew Harnik) 
 
 This is a full transcript of the Republican party’s first debate of Thursday night--an undercard featuring seven lower-performing candidates. 
 
 HEMMER: This is first official event in the campaign for the Republican nomination for president. Welcome to Cleveland Ohio. It is debate night. 
 
 HEMMER: I'm Bill Hemmer. 
 
 MACCALLUM: And I'm Martha MacCallum. 
 
 It all starts here. We are ready, the candidates are ready. We're live at the Quicken Loans Arena, where we have partnered with Facebook to bring you, the voter, into today's debate. 
 
 HEMMER: So you will hear from all 17 candidates tonight, and you'll meet seven of them right now, starting with three-time governor in the state of Texas, Rick Perry. 
 
 (APPLAUSE) 
 
 MACCALLUM: Also, two-time senator from Pennsylvania, Rick Santorum. 
 
 (APPLAUSE) 
 
 HEMMER: Two-time. Two-time governor of the State of Louisiana, Acting Governor Bobby Jindal. 
 
 HEMMER: So you will hear from all 17 candidates tonight, and you'll meet seven of them right now, starting with three-time governor in the state of Texas, Rick Perry. 
 
 (APPLAUSE) 
 
 MACCALLUM: Also, two-time senator from Pennsylvania, Rick Santorum. 
 
 (APPLAUSE) 
 
 HEMMER: Two-time. Two-time governor of the State of Louisiana, Acting Governor Bobby Jindal. 
 
 (APPLAUSE) 
 
 MACCALLUM: Businesswoman and former CEO of Hewlett-Packard, Carly Fiorina. 
 
 (APPLAUSE) 
 
 HEMMER: The senior senator from South Carolina, Lindsey Graham. 
 
 (APPLAUSE) 
 
 MACCALLUM: Former three-term governor of New York, George Pataki. 
 
 (APPLAUSE) 
 
 [Live updates: The Republican presidential debate] 
 
 HEMMER: And former Virginia governor, Jim Gilmore. 
 
 MACCALLUM: Now, this debate will last one hour. We're going to have four commercial breaks. 
 
 MACCALLUM: Each candidate will have one minute to anwer each question and 30 seconds for rebuttal. If you run out of time, you're going to hear this. 
 
 OK? 
 
 HEMMER: Gentle. 
 
 MACCALLUM: Everybody got the bell? 
 
 HEMMER: Wait til you hear what the others are going to get later, huh? 
 
 MACCALLUM: Exactly. 
 
 (LAUGHTER) 
 
 HEMMER: One year from now, a Republican nominee will be standing on this stage in this very same arena. That person is in Cleveland today. 
 
 So let's get started. First topic, electability. 
 
 First question to Governor Perry from Texas. 
 
 Welcome, Governor. 
 
 PERRY: It's good to be with you. 
 
 HEMMER: You were in charge of the 12th largest economy in the world, and you recently said that four years ago, you weren't ready for this job. 
 
 HEMMER: Why should someone vote for you now? 
 
 PERRY: After those four years of looking back and being prepared, the preparation to be the most powerful individual in the world requires an extraordinary amount of work: not just having been the governor of the 12th largest economy in the world, which I might add, we added 1.5 million jobs during that period of time over that 2007 through 2014 period, a period when America was going through the most deep recession it had been through since the Great Depression. 
 
 I think Americans want someone to have a track record of showing them how to get this country back on record, someone who will stand up and every day project that best days of America are in front of us. 
 
 And I will assure you, as the governor of the state of Texas, and as those last four years have shown me, the preparation to be ready to stand on this stage and talk about those monetary policies, those domestic policies, and those foreign policies, Americans are going to see that I am ready to be that individual. 
 
 HEMMER: Thank you, Governor. 
 
 MACCALLUM: Now we go to Carly Fiorina. 
 
 Carly, you were CEO of Hewlett-Packard. You ran for Senate and lost in California in 2010. This week, you said "Margaret Thatcher was not content to manage a great nation in decline, and neither am I." 
 
 Given your current standings in the polls, is the Iron Lady comparison a stretch? 
 
 FIORINA: Well, I would begin by reminding people that at this point in previous presidential elections, Jimmy Carter couldn't win, Ronald Reagan couldn't win, Bill Clinton couldn't win, and neither could've Barack Obama. 
 
 I started as a secretary and became ultimately the chief executive of the largest technology company in the world, almost $90 billion in over 150 countries. I know personally how extraordinary and unique this nation is. 
 
 I think to be commander in chief in the 21st century requires someone who understands how the economy works, someone who understands how the world works and who's in it; I know more world leaders on the stage today than anyone running, with the possible exception of Hillary Clinton; understands bureaucracies, how to cut them down to size and hold them accountable; and understands technology, which is a tool, but it's also a weapon that's being used against us. 
 
 Most importantly, I think I understand leadership, which sometimes requires a tough call in a tough time. But mostly, the highest calling of leadership is to challenge the status-quo and unlock the potential of others. We need a leader who will lead the resurgence of this great nation and unlock its potential once again. 
 
 Thank you. 
 
 HEMMER: Senator Santorum, you won the Iowa caucus four years ago and 10 other states. But you failed to beat Mitt Romney for the nomination. And no one here tonight is going to question your conviction or your love for country. But has your moment passed, Senator? 
 
 SANTORUM: I would say the message that got us the win in Iowa and 10 other states against pretty overwhelming odds, is the message that's going to deliver us in this election. 
 
 SANTORUM: You know, we didn't start out four years ago at the top of the heap. We were behind where we were today. But we stuck to our message. We stuck to the fact that Americans are tired of Washington corporate interests and Democrats who are interested in just politics and power and they're looking for someone who's going to fight for them; looking for someone who's going to grow manufacturing sector of our economy, so those 74 percent of Americans who don't have a college degree have a chance to rise again. Someone who's going to stand up, and be very clear with our enemies as to the lines their going to draw and stand with them. 
 
 I've got a track record. The reason I did so well last time is not just because of the vision, it's because I have a track record in Washington, D.C. of getting things done. Iran sanctions -- the Iran sanctions that brought them to the table, those are sanctions that we put in place when I was in the United States Senate, and a whole host of other things that put me in a position of saying, I not only have a great vision, but I can govern effectively in Washington. 
 
 HEMMER: Thank you, Senator. 
 
 MACCALLUM: Governor Jindal, you're one of two sitting governors on the stage tonight. But your approval numbers at home are in the mid 30s at this point. In a recent poll that showed you in a head-to- head against Hillary Clinton in Louisiana, she beat you by several points. 
 
 So if the people of Louisiana are not satisfied, what makes you think that the people of this nation would be? 
 
 JINDAL: Well, first of all, thank you all for having us. 
 
 You know, I won two record elections. Last time I was elected governor, won a record margin in my state. Martha, we got a lot of politicians that will kiss babies, cut ribbons, do whatever it takes to be popular. That's not why I ran for office. 
 
 I ran for office to make the generational changes in Louisiana. We've cut 26 percent of our budget. We have 30,000 fewer state bureaucrats than the day I took office. I don't think anybody has cut that much government anywhere, at any time. As a result, eight credit upgrades; as a result, a top ten state for private sector job creation. And we fought for statewide school choice, where the dollars follow the child, instead of the child following the dollars. We've been the most pro-life state six years in a row. My point is this: I won two landslide elections, I made big changes. I think our country is tired of the politicians who simply read the polls and fail to lead. Both Democrats and Republicans have gotten us in the mess we're in -- $18 trillion of debt, a bad deal with Iran, we're not staying with Israel. 
 
 I think the American people are look for real leadership. That's what I've done in Louisiana, that's what I'll do in America. 
 
 HEMMER: Senator Lindsey Graham, you worked with Democrats and President Obama when it came to climate change, something you know is extremely unpopular with conservative Republicans. 
 
 How can they trust you based on that record? 
 
 GRAHAM: You can trust me to do the following: that when I get on change with Hillary Clinton, we won't be debating about the science, we'll be debating about the solutions. In her world, cap- and-trade would dominate, that we will destroy the economy in the name of helping the environment. In my world, we'll focus on energy independence and a clean environment. 
 
 When it comes to fossil fuels, we're going to find more here and use less. Over time, we're going to become energy independent. I am tired of sending $300 billion overseas to buy oil from people who hate our guts. The choice between a weak economy and a strong environment is a false choice, that is not the choice I'll offer America. 
 
 A healthy environment, a strong economy and energy independent America -- that would be the purpose of my presidency, is break the strangle hold that people enjoy on fossil fuels who hate our guts. 
 
 HEMMER: Thank you, Senator. 
 
 MACCALLUM: Governor Pataki, four years ago this month, you called it quits in a race for the presidency in 2012, but now you're back. Mitt Romney declined to run this time, because he believed that the party needed new blood. 
 
 Does he have a point? 
 
 PATAKI: I think he means somebody who hasn't been a career politician, and who's been out of office for awhile. I think the last eight years in the private sector have allowed me to see government from the outside, and I think that is a positive thing. Yes, I thought about running four years ago. I was ready to lead, but I wasn't ready to run. 
 
 But I look at this country today, and I look at how divided we are, I look at how politicians are always posturing and issuing sound bites but never solving problems. What I did in New York was bring people together, an overwhelmingly Democratic state. But I was able to get Democrats to support the most conservative sweeping policy changes in any state in America. 
 
 And when I look at Washington today, we need to bring us together. We need to solve problems, we need to rebuild our military so we can stand up to radical Islam, we need to get our economy growing much faster by throwing out the corrupt tax code and lowering the rates. We have to end crony capitalism in Washington, where the lobbyists and the powerful can get tax breaks and tax credits, and the American people don't get laws in their interest. 
 
 I can do that. And I can do it regardless of what the makeup of Congress is because I did it in New York state. So we need new leadership -- yes. I will be that new leader. 
 
 MACCALLUM: Thank you, Governor. 
 
 From one side of the stage, the other -- the other, Governor Jim Gilmore. 
 
 You were the last person on stage to declare your candidacy. You ran for the White House once and lost. You ran for the Senate one time and lost. You haven't held public office in 13 years. 
 
 Similar question, is it time for new blood? 
 
 GILMORE: I think the times are different now. I think the times are much more serious. 
 
 Because Obama and Clinton policies, the United States is moving further and further into a decline. I want to reverse that decline. That's why I've entered this race, and I think I have the experience to do it. 
 
 Former elected prosecutor, attorney general, governor, I was elected to all of those offices. 
 
 A person who, in fact, has a long experience in foreign-policy issues, which is different from many of the other governors and prospective governors who are running. I was an Army intelligence agent and a veteran during the Cold War, assigned to West Germany. 
 
 I was the chairman of the National Commission on Homeland Security and Terrorism for the United States for five years. I was a person who has dealt extensively with these homeland security issues. I was a governor during the 9/11 attack. 
 
 I understand both of these issues, how to build the economy and doing that as a governor who'd built jobs, had cut taxes and also a governor who understands foreign-policy, and that's why I entered this race. 
 
 HEMMER: Thank you, Governor. 
 
 MACCALLUM: Alright, everybody. Now to the elephant that is not in the room tonight, Donald Trump. 
 
 Let's take a look at this graphic that shows the huge amount of political chatter that he is driving on Facebook right now, some of it good, probably, some of it bad. But he is dominating this conversation. Governor Perry, you two have been going at it. But given the large disparity in your poll numbers, he seems to be getting the better of you. 
 
 PERRY: Well, when you look at the celebrity of Donald Trump, then I think that says a lot about it. 
 
 One thing I like to remind people is, back in 2007, Rudy Giuliani was leading the polls for almost a year. I'll suggest a part of that was his celebrity. Fred Thompson was the other one, a man who had spent a lot of time on that screen. 
 
 I've had my issues with Donald Trump. I talked about Donald Trump from the standpoint of being an individual who was using his celebrity rather than his conservatism. 
 
 How can you run for the Republican nomination and be for single- payer health care? I mean, I ask that with all due respect. And nobody, nobody on either one of these stages has done more than I've done and the people of the State of Texas to deal with securing that border. 
 
 We sent our Texas ranger recon teams. We sent our parks and wildlife wardens. I deployed the National Guard after I stood on the ramp in Dallas, Texas and looked the president of the United States in the eye and said, "Mr. President, if you won't secure the border, Texas will," and that's exactly what we did. 
 
 We need a president that doesn't just talk a game, but a president that's got real results. 
 
 MACCALLUM: Alright, I want to ask that same question, because it's true, really, of all of you on this stage that, like it or not, Donald Trump is -- there's a huge disparity between the poll numbers that you have and the poll numbers that he has, given also the fact that Rudy Giuliani said he thought that there may be some Reagan qualities to Donald Trump. 
 
 So Carly Fiorina, is he getting the better of you? 
 
 FIORINA: Well, I don't know. I didn't get a phone call from Bill Clinton before I jumped in the race. Did any of you get a phone call from Bill Clinton? I didn't. Maybe it's because I hadn't given money to the foundation or donated to his wife's Senate campaign. 
 
 Here's the thing that I would ask Donald Trump in all seriousness. He is the party's frontrunner right now, and good for him. 
 
 I think he's tapped into an anger that people feel. They're sick of politics as usual. You know, whatever your issue, your cause, the festering problem you hoped would resolved, the political class has failed you. That's just a fact, and that's what Donald Trump taps into. 
 
 I would also just say this. Since he has changed his mind on amnesty, on health care and on abortion, I would just ask, what are the principles by which he will govern? 
 
 MACCALLUM: Thank you. 
 
 HEMMER: This Saturday, August 8th, two days from now marks one year since the strikes began against ISIS in Iraq and followed in Syria one month later. This week, a leading general in the U.S. Marine Corps says, "One year later, that fight is at a stalemate." 
 
 Governor Jindal, give me one example how your fight against ISIS would be different over there? 
 
 JINDAL: Well, to start with, unlike President Obama, I'll actually name the enemy that we confront. We've got a president who cannot bring himself to say the words "radical Islamic terrorism." 
 
 Now, Bill, he loves to criticize America, apologize for us, criticize medieval Christians. How can we beat an enemy if our commander-in-chief doesn't have the moral honesty and clarity to say that Islam has a problem, and that problem is radical Islam, to say they've got to condemn not generic acts of violence, but the individual murderers who are committing these acts of violence. 
 
 We've got a president who instead says, we're going to change hearts and minds. Well, you know what? Sometimes you win a war by killing murderous, evil terrorists. We're going to take the political handcuffs off the military. We will arm and train the Kurds. We will work with our Sunni allies. They know we will be committed to victory. 
 
 We had this failed red line with Assad and it discouraged folks that want to help us on the ground. Finally, we'll take off the political handcuffs. We'll go to the Congress. This president has gone to Congress and said give me a three-year deadline, give me a ban on ground troops. I'm going to go to the commanders and say give me a plan to win. You can't send your troops into harm's way unless you give them every opportunity to be successful. 
 
 HEMMER: And the senator to your right has called for 20,000 American troops in Syria and Iraq so far today, Senator Graham, and I'll give this question to you. Why should the American people after two wars in Iraq sacrifice yet again on a third war? 
 
 GRAHAM: If we don't stop them over there, they are coming here just as sure as I stand here in front of you. 
 
 One thing I want to be clear about tonight. If you're running for president of the United States and you don't understand that we need more American ground forces in Iraq and that America has to be part of a regional ground force that will go into Syria and destroy ISIL in Syria, then you're not ready to be commander in chief. And you're not serious about destroying ISIL. 
 
 According to the generals that I know and trust, this air campaign will not destroy ISIL. We need a ground force in Iraq and Syria, and America has to be part of that ground force. According to the FBI and the director of national intelligence, Syria's becoming a perfect platform to strike our nation. I've got a very simple strategy as your president against ISIL. Whatever it takes, as long as it takes, to defeat them. 
 
 HEMMER: Senator, thank you. 
 
 MACCALLUM: All right. Let's get to our first commercial break. There is plenty more to discuss tonight. Coming up, immigration, more on ISIS and homeland security as well as we continue live tonight from Cleveland, Ohio. 
 
 (COMMERCIAL BREAK) 
 
 HEMMER: It is debate night, and welcome back to Cleveland, Ohio. Let's get back to the questions right now with Martha. 
 
 MACCALLUM: All right. Let's talk about ISIS and the threat to the homeland that we have seen growing in recent months. This goes to Governor Pataki. 
 
 Sixty-nine ISIS-inspired terrorists have been arrested in this country, in homeland plots, and the FBI assures us that there are likely many more to come. 
 
 The president is reluctant to label these terrorists Islamic extremists, but you've said that you have no problem with that label. Then comes the hard part. 
 
 So here's the question. How far are you willing to go to root out this problem here at home? Would you put mosques, for example, potentially, under surveillance? And keep in mind that conservatives are increasingly concerned in this country with religious liberty. 
 
 PATAKI: Martha, religious liberty doesn't include encouraging a fellow American to engage in violent jihad and kill an American here. That is not protected free speech. That is not protected religious belief. 
 
 That is like shouting "fire" in a crowded theater, and that is illegal, and I would do everything in our power not just to go after those who are here who we know who are here, before they can radicalize other Americans to carry out attacks, and it's not just the ones they've arrested. 
 
 Think back to Garland, Texas. But for that Texas police officer, we could have had a mass murder. We have to shut down their internet capability. We have to shut down, whether or not they're in prisons preaching or on -- in mosques preaching. No radical Islam that is allowed to engage in encouraging violence against Americans, that is not protected speech. 
 
 Let me just add one thing about ISIS over there. We have got to destroy their training camps and recruiting centers. 
 
 I was governor of New York on September 11. I know that we are at greater risk today than at any time since then of another attack. We have got to destroy their training camps over there before they can attack us here. 
 
 I don't agree that we're going to occupy and spend another decade or a trillion dollars. What we need to do is destroy their ability to attack us here over there, and then get out. 
 
 You know, I have two sons. Both served. One as a marine officer in Iraq, one as an army officer in Afghanistan. I do not see -- want to see one parent or loved one worrying about getting a call in the middle of the night. 
 
 I would not place one American life at risk unless it was absolutely necessary. But to destroy ISIS, it is necessary. 
 
 MACCALLUM: All right. This question to Carly Fiorina. The FBI director Comey says that terrorists can thrive here at home because they go dark and they recruit behind the cyber walls that are built by American companies like Google and Apple. 
 
 Comey says this is a big problem. Rand Paul says that the government forcing these companies to bring down those walls would be a big privacy issue and a dangerous way to go on this. You've been a tech leader in this country. Which side are you on? 
 
 FIORINA: Let me say first that it is disturbing that every time one of these home-grown terrorist attacks occurs, and, as your question points out, they are occurring with far too great frequency, it turns out we had warning signals. 
 
 It turns out we knew something was wrong. It turns out some dot wasn't connected, and so the first thing we have to do is make sure that everyone and every responsible agency is attuned to all of these possibilities and symptoms. 
 
 We even had warnings about the Boston Marathon bombers, and yet the dots weren't connected. So we need to get on a different mindset. 
 
 Secondly, I certainly support that we need to tear down cyber walls, not on a mass basis, but on a targeted basis. But let me just say that we also need down -- to tear down the cyber walls that China is erecting, that Russia is erecting. 
 
 FIORINA: We need to be very well aware of the fact that China and Russia are using technology to attack us, just as ISIS is using technology to recruit those who would murder American citizens. I do not believe that we need to wholesale destroy every American citizen's privacy in order to go after those that we know are suspect or are -- are already a problem. But yes, there is more collaboration required between private sector companies and the public sector. And specifically, we know that we could have detected and repelled some of these cyber attacks if that collaboration had been permitted. A law has been sitting -- languishing, sadly, on Capitol Hill and has not yet been passed, and it would help. 
 
 MACCALLUM: So, would you tonight call for Google and Apple to cooperate in these Investigations and let the FBI, in where they need to go? 
 
 FIORINA: I absolutely would call on them to collaborate and cooperate, yes. 
 
 HEMMER: Excuse me, Martha. I have not heard the bell just yet, so you're all very well behaved so far. 
 
 Governor Gilmore, 30 seconds. 
 
 GILMORE: Well, yes, indeed. I chaired the National Commission on Homeland Security Committee for United States. We warned about the 9/11 attack before the 9/11 attack occurred. I was the governor during the 9/11 attack when the Pentagon was struck. 
 
 And I'm going to tell you this, we need to use the benefit of our law enforcement people across this country, combined with our intelligence people across this country. We need to use our technological advantages, because what we've warned of is an international guerrilla movement that threatens this country. It's going to happen in this country, there are going to be further attacks. 
 
 We have to be prepared to defend the American people, prepare them for a long war, stand up for the defense of this country, and stand up for the values of this country... 
 
 HEMMER: Thank you, Governor. I've got to move on to immigration here. 
 
 Senator Santorum, you would argue you have one of the tougher positions on illegal immigration in the entire 17 candidate field at the moment. We often talk about this issue on the abstract level in Washington, D.C., but you know how it's being talked about in states like Iowa and New Hampshire among illegals in our country today -- 11 million plus. 
 
 And some are asking, what would you say to a child, born and raised in America, who could see their family broken apart by your policy? 
 
 SANTORUM: My father was born in Italy, and shortly after he was born my grandfather immigrated to this country. And under the laws of this country, he wasn't allowed to be with his father for seven years. Spent the first seven years of his life in Fascist Italy, under Benito Mussolini. Not a very pleasant place to be. 
 
 I asked my dad after -- obviously, when I found out about this. And I said, "Didn't you resent America for not letting you be with your father in those formative and very threatening years?" You know what he said to me? "America was worth the wait." 
 
 We're a country of laws, Bill. We're a country of laws, not of men, not of people who do whatever they want to do. I know we have a president who wants to do whatever he wants to do, and take his pen and his phone and just tell everybody what he thinks is best. But the reason America is a great country, the reason is because our compassion is in our laws. And when we live by those laws and we treat everybody equally under the law, that's when people feel good about being Americans. 
 
 And I put forth an immigration policy that is as strong in favor of the folks who are struggling in America the most than anybody else. It's the strongest pro-worker immigration plan. It says that after 35 million people have come here over the last 20 years, almost all of whom are unskilled workers, flattening wages, creating horrible opportunity -- a lack of opportunities for unskilled workers, we're going to do something about reducing the level of immigration by 25 percent. 
 
 We're going to be tough at the border, we're going to be tough on all of the illegal immigrants that everybody else in this field -- we're going to be different. We're going to be actually out there trying to create a better life for hard-working Americans. 
 
 HEMMER: Governor Perry, try and answer this question again. 
 
 What do you say to the family of illegals? Are you going to break them apart? 
 
 PERRY: Bill, here's the interesting position on this. Americans are tired of hearing this debate -- want to go to, what are you going to do about illegal immigration? For 30 years this country has been baited with that. All the way back to when Ronald Reagan signed a piece of legislation that basically allowed for amnesty for over 4 million people, and the border is still not secure. 
 
 The American people are never going to trust Washington, D.C., and for good reason. We hear all this discussion about well, I would do this, or I would do that, when the fact is, the border is still porous. Until we have a president of the United States that gets up every day and goes to the Oval Office with the intent purpose of securing that border, and there's not anybody on either one of these stages that has the experience of dealing with this as I have for over 14 years with that 1200-mile border. 
 
 PERRY: We have to put the personnel on that border in the right places; you have to put the strategic fencing in place; and you have to have aviation assets that fly all the way from Tijuana to El Paso to Brownsville, Texas -- 1,933 miles looking down 24/7, with the technology to be able to identify what individuals are doing, and ID when they are in obviously illegal activities or suspicious activities, and quick response teams come. 
 
 At that particular point in time, then Americans will believe that Washington is up to a conversation to deal with the millions of people that are here illegally, but not until. 
 
 If you elect me president of the United States, I will secure that southern border. 
 
 HEMMER: Governor, thank you. 
 
 MACCALLUM: On that note, next, the candidates take on the future of the U.S. economy when we come back after this quick break. 
 
 (COMMERCIAL BREAK) 
 
 MACCALLUM: Welcome back, everybody. It is the bottom of the hour, and we are back, live from Cleveland's Quicken Loans Arena, kicking off the first 2016 Republican primary debate. 
 
 HEMMER: And so right now, we're 30 minutes in. Going to jump back into the topics and continue our discussion of national issues on the domestic level. 
 
 The issue that is really number one on the minds of many voters, that's the economy and jobs. 
 
 MACCALLUM: So let's start here with Senator Graham. 
 
 Senator Graham, 82 million Americans over the age of 20 are out of the workforce. 
 
 GRAHAM: Right. 
 
 MACCALLUM: Forty-five million people in this country are on food stamps. Nine million are on disability. 
 
 All of these numbers have been rising sharply in recent years. 
 
 There is an increasing willingness in this country to accept assistance. How do you get Americans who are able to take the job instead of a handout? 
 
 GRHAAM: I think America is dying to work, you just need to give them a chance. To all the Americans who want a better life, don't vote for Hillary Clinton. You're not going to get it. She's not going to repeal "Obamacare" and replace it. I will. She's not going to build the Keystone Pipeline. I will. She's not going to change Dodd-Frank. I will. 
 
 Until you change the policies of Barack Obama, we're never going to grow this economy. Until you change the policies of Barack Obama, we're never going to be safe. She represents a third term of a failed presidency. 
 
 I'm fluent in Clinton-speak; I've been dealing with this crowd for 20 years. You know, when Bill Clinton says it depends on what the meaning of is is, that means is is whatever Bill wants it to mean. When Hillary Clinton tells you I've given you all the emails you need, that means she hasn't. So to the people who are dying for a better America, you better change course, and she doesn't represent the change that we need. 
 
 Do we all agree that ISIL is not the JV team? If I have to monitor a mosque, I'll monitor a mosque. If I have to take down a cyber wall, I'll take it. If I have to send more American troops to protect us here, I will do it. She will not. She has empowered a failed agenda. She is going to empower a failed solution to an American economy dying to grow. 
 
 Elect me, I know the difference between being flat broke. Apparently, she doesn't. In Hillary Clinton's world, after two terms in the White House where her husband was president, she said she was flat broke. Hillary, I'll show you flat broke. That's not it. 
 
 MACCALLUM: All right. Senator Santorum, let's get back to the question at hand, which is whether or not Americans have become too reliant on assistance or too willing to take assistance. Do you believe that we need to change the culture in this country in terms of whether or not we should be encouraging people to get off of it and take the job when it's available? Some are able and not doing that. 
 
 SANTORUM: I think it's -- yeah, I think it's a one-two punch. Number one, we have to create better paying jobs. I mean, that's just the bottom line. We haven't. And that's the reason that I've said under my presidency, we'll create jobs and make American the number one manufacturing country in the world. 
 
 If we want to create jobs for the folks that you're talking about, who are having trouble getting off government benefits, primarily because of their low skill level, there is no better way -- it's worked for 100 years in America -- putting people back to work in manufacturing is it. 
 
 I'm going to be introducing a plan which I call the 2020 Perfect Vision for America. It's a 20 percent flat rate tax, it'll take a blowtorch to the -- to the IRS. It will create a manufacturing juggernaut in this country. And you combine that with reforms of our welfare system. 
 
 You're looking at the -- at the man who introduced and fought on the floor as a freshman senator and passed the Welfare Reform Act of 1996 over two President Clinton vetoes. Got 70 votes in the United States Senate. Bipartisan issue. And I ended a federal entitlement. Never been done before, never been done since. 
 
 What we need to do is take the rest of the federal entitlements, not just welfare, but food stamps and Medicaid and housing programs and do the same thing we did with welfare. Work requirements and time limits. That will change everything. 
 
 MACCALLUM: All right. New question, same topic, goes to Governor Gilmore. You know, based on your record and what we're discussing here, which is potentially cutting back some entitlement, cutting back benefits, it's tricky business as we all know because people will argue that that's their means to escape poverty. So they're going to look at you when you want to do that and they will call you heartless. What will you tell them? 
 
 GILMORE: I'll tell them that we're going to grow the economy so that we can give people better opportunities so they don't have to rely exclusively on benefit types of programs. Some do, but many Americans are dying to have an opportunity to grow and to create something inside this economy. And I'm glad that I have a chance to answer this question. 
 
 I've had the growth code (ph) there for about five years, and it's this specific program. We're going to do a tax cut for all Americans. We're going to have a three-bracket tax code, 10, 15 and 25 percent. We're going to combine all commercial activity in business into one place in the tax code and charge it 15 percent, which is going to suddenly make us competitive with the rest of the world. And we're going to eliminate the death tax. 
 
 GILMORE: With a couple of additional tweaks, we know what this will do. It will cause the economy to grow, to explode, to create more jobs. And first of all, we've got to recognize that there is problem that Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton have caused. And that problem is too big regulations like the EPA, too much new taxes on business that we have seen and "Obamacare." These are drags on the economy, it's a deliberate drag. I propose to reverse that and get this economy moving again. 
 
 HEMMER: Thank you, Governor. 
 
 Your last topic brings us to the state of Ohio. 
 
 You know, the saying, right? No Republican wins the White House unless you win here in the Buckeye state. Well, here in the Buckeye state, the Governor John Kasich took the federal money for Medicaid expansion under Obamacare. 
 
 And Governor Jindal of Louisiana, you passed on those tax dollars. Why do you think Governor Kasich got it wrong here? 
 
 JINDAL: Well, this goes to the question you were just asking. Look, under President Obama and Secretary Clinton, they're working hard to change the American dream into the European nightmare. They do celebrate more dependence on the government. 
 
 Give Bernie Sanders credit. At least he's honest enough to call himself a socialist. Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton, they're no better. If we were to expand Medicaid, for every uninsured person we would cover, we'd kick more than one person out of private insurance or remove their opportunity to get private insurance. 
 
 We're going to have too many people in the cart rather than pulling the cart. This isn't free money. I know some people like to say, "well, this is free money." We pay federal taxes. We are borrowing money from China today. 
 
 Yesterday, the president stunningly admitted this. He said, "we don't have leverage with China to get a better deal on Iran because we need them to lend us money to continue operating our government." 
 
 The president of the United States admitting that he's weakening our government's position, our foreign policy standing, because he can't control spending in D.C.. 
 
 There is a better way to provide health care. The Oregon study showed this. Simply expanding Medicaid does not improve health care outcomes. In Louisiana, instead we're helping people getting better paying jobs so they can provide for their own health care. 
 
 HEMMER: So Governor Kasich was wrong, just to be clear. 
 
 JINDAL: I don't -- look, I don't think anybody should be expanding Medicaid. I think it's a mistake to create new and more expensive entitlement programs when we can't afford the ones we've got today. We've got to stop this culture of government dependence. 
 
 HEMMER: I didn't hear an answer regarding Governor Kasich, but for now I'll go to Governor Pataki. Yes or no? 
 
 JINDAL: I'll say this. I don't think anybody should expand Medicaid. I think it was a mistake to expand Medicaid everywhere in Ohio and across the country. 
 
 HEMMER: Governor Pataki, three term governor of New York. Is he right, Governor Jindal from Louisiana? 
 
 PATAKI: I think he is right. I don't think you expand entitlements when so many people are dependent on government and when the money the federal government is offering is going to be taken away from you after just a couple of years. 
 
 But getting back to Martha's question about how we end dependency, do we have to have a cultural change? The answer is no. And I know this, because when I ran for governor of New York, one in 11 of every man, woman, and child in the state of New York was on welfare. On welfare. Think about that. 
 
 And people said "you can't win, you can't change the culture." But I knew that good people who wanted to be a part of the American dream have become trapped in dependency because the federal government and the state government had made it in their economic interest not to take a job because the benefits that they didn't work were better. 
 
 I changed that. We put in place mandatory work fair (ph). But we allowed people to keep health care. We put in place child care support. 
 
 HEMMER: Yes or no, would you have expanded Obamacare in the state of New York, had you been governor at that time? 
 
 PATAKI: No, it should be repealed. And by the way, when I left, there were over 1 million fewer people on welfare in New York state than when I took office... 
 
 HEMMER: OK. 
 
 PATAKI: ... replacing dependency with opportunity. 
 
 HEMMER: Thank you, Governor Pataki. 
 
 In a moment here, we'll talk to the candidates about an issue today on Planned Parenthood, and also the U.S. Supreme Court. That's all next here in Cleveland. 
 
 (COMMERCIAL BREAK) 
 
 HEMMER: Welcome back to Cleveland, Ohio. Want to get back to the questions and the issues in this debate now, with my co-anchor, Martha. 
 
 MACCALLUM: All right. 
 
 Well, there's been a lot of discussion on Facebook, as you would imagine, about the Iran nuclear deal. Let's just take a look, as an opener, at this one question that comes from Logan Christopher Boyer of St. Louis, Missouri. 
 
 He says, "How will you disarm Iran and keep the Middle East from becoming nuclearized? 
 
 So let's open this discussion about Iran with this question that comes to Governor Perry. Governor Perry, here's the question for you: 
 
 Critics of the Iran deal say that it puts America on the same side as the largest state sponsor of terrorism in the world, of Hamas, of Hezbollah, of the backers of those groups of people who chant 'Death to America,' in the street, that this deal puts on that side of the equation. 
 
 But our traditional Middle East allies, led by Saudi Arabia, have also funneled support to Islamic radical groups who want to kill Americans. 
 
 So which side do you believe we should be on? 
 
 PERRY: We need to be on the side that keeps Iran from getting a nuclear weapon. That's the side we need to be on, and that's the side of the bulk of the -- of the Middle East. 
 
 We need to have some coalitions in that part of the world to go after ISIS, but we also need to send a clear message. And hopefully -- you know, Senator Graham, I -- I know where he's going to be on this, but we use Congress, and we use Congress to cut this funding. 
 
 One of the great challenges that we have, $150 billion is fixing to go to a country that killed our Marines in Lebanon, that used their weapons to kill our young men in Iran. And the idea that this negotiation -- I will tell you one thing. I would a whole lot rather had Carly Fiorina over there doing our negotiation than John Kerry. Maybe we would've gotten a deal where we didn't give everything away. 
 
 But the issue for us is to have a Congress that stands up and says not only no, but "Hell no" to this money going to a regime that is going to use it for terror, Susan Rice has said that, and we need to stand up and strongly and clearly tell the ayatollah that -- whoever the next president of the United States is going to be, and I'll promise you, if it's me, the first thing that I will do is tear up that agreement with Iran. 
 
 MACCALLUM: Alright. I want to go to Carly Fiorina on this, but I want to ask you some of what I just asked to Governor Perry. 
 
 The issue is that the allies that we are with sometimes have groups within them that funnel money to terrorists as well. This is a complicated situation. Are you OK with us being on their side? 
 
 FIORINA: Yeah. Sometimes it's a complicated situation, but some things are black and white. 
 
 On day one in the Oval Office, I would make two phone calls. The first one would be to my good friend, Bibi Netanyahu, to reassure him we will stand with the State of Israel. 
 
 The second will be to the supreme leader of Iran. He might not take my phone call, but he would get the message, and the message is this: Until you open every nuclear and every military facility to full, open, anytime/anywhere, for real, inspections, we are going to make it as difficult as possible for you to move money around the global financial system. 
 
 FIORINA: I hope Congress says no to this deal. But realistically, even if they do, the money is flowing. 
 
 China and Russia have never been on our side of the table. The Europeans have moved on. We have to stop the money flow. And by the way, as important as those two phone calls are, they are also very important because they say this. America is back in the leadership business. And when America does not lead, the world is a dangerous and a tragic place. 
 
 This is a bad deal. Obama broke every rule of negotiation. Yes, our allies are not perfect. But Iran is at the heart of most of the evil that is going on in the Middle East through their proxies. 
 
 MACCALLUM: Very, very briefly, would you help our allies in that region to get nuclear weapons if Iran has them? 
 
 FIORINA: Let me tell you what I would do immediately, day two in the Oval Office. I would hold a Camp David summit with our Arab allies, not to talk them into this lousy deal with Iran, but to say to them, "what is it that you need to defeat ISIL?" 
 
 You know, Obama has presented the American people with a false choice every time. It's what I've done or not done, or it's war. It is a false choice. 
 
 King Abdullah of Jordan, a man I've known for a long time, has been asking for bombs and materiel. We have not provided them. He has gone to China. 
 
 The Kurds have been asking us to arm them for three years. We haven't done so. 
 
 The Egyptians have asked us to share intelligence. We're not doing it. We have Arab allies. 
 
 They are not perfect. I know every one. But they need to see leadership, support and resolve from the United States of America, and we can help them defeat ISIS. 
 
 HEMMER: Next question on the U.S. Supreme Court. It's been 42 years, Senator Santorum, since Roe v. Wade, and many consider, in this country, to be a case of settled law. 
 
 Recently the U.S. Supreme Court ruled on same-sex marriage. Is that now settled law in America today? SANTORUM: It is not any more than Dred Scott was settled law to Abraham Lincoln, who, in his first inaugural address, said "it won't stand." And they went ahead and passed laws in direct contravention to a rogue Supreme Court. 
 
 This is a rogue Supreme Court decision, just like Justice Roberts said. There is no constitutional basis for the Supreme Court's decision, and I know something about this. 
 
 The -- one of the times the Supreme Court spoke that I thought they were acting outside of their authority was in a partial-birth abortion case. You know, these Planned Parenthood tapes, what they're showing are partial-birth abortions. 
 
 Abortions being done where the baby's being delivered first, to preserve those organs, and then they crush the skull. Well, the Supreme Court found a bill that I was the author of unconstitutional. 
 
 What did I do? I didn't stop. I didn't say "oh, well we lost. It's the law of the land." We worked together. The House and Senate, under my leadership, and we passed a bill, and we said, "Supreme Court, you're wrong." 
 
 We're a coequal branch of the government. We have every right to be able to stand up and say what is constitutional. We passed a bill, bipartisan support, and the Supreme Court, they -- they sided with us. 
 
 Sometimes it just takes someone to lead and stand up to the court. 
 
 HEMMER: Alright, Senator, thank you. 
 
 To Governor Gilmore. For years, presidential candidates have not said they would have a litmus test for justices nominated to the Supreme Court. 
 
 Recently, Hillary Clinton broke that precedent. She said she would apply that on the case of Citizens United, which deals with campaign finance laws in America today. 
 
 Is it time for conservatives to impose a litmus test on abortion? 
 
 GILMORE: Well, as you know, I'm a former elected prosecutor, a former elected attorney general, trained at the University of Virginia in constitutional law, and I don't believe in litmus tests except this. 
 
 I believe we should be appointing Supreme Court justices who will follow the law and not try to make the law. Now, the challenge we're seeing today is that the Supreme Court is being converted into some type of political body. 
 
 They have to have some legal basis and precedence for being able to follow the law instead of making the law up, and my goal is -- in appointing Supreme Court justices, would be to point -- to appoint justices who would follow the law. Bill, I want to say one more thing about... 
 
 HEMMER: So, no litmus test? 
 
 GILMORE: Not -- not on that, no. But let me say one more thing. I want to -- before my time runs out I want to get back to this issue of ISIS versus Iran. It is Iran that's the expansionist power. ISIL is trying to create themselves into a new state. 
 
 Our job has to be to recognize the conflict between the two. I have proposed there be a Middle East NATO so that we can combine our allies there to stand up to Iranian expansion, and at the same time join together to begin to stop and this ISIL thing before it becomes an actual state. 
 
 HEMMER: Thank you, governor. 
 
 MACCALLUM: All right. With that, we are going to take a quick break. We'll be right back with much more from Cleveland. Stay with us. 
 
 (COMMERCIAL BREAK) 
 
 HEMMER: As the first debate of the nomination season continues, welcome back to Cleveland. Let's get back to the questions right now, and the issues here in the U.S. 
 
 Martha? 
 
 MACCALLUM: We want to get back to Planned Parenthood. And this question goes to Governor Pataki. 
 
 Governor Pataki, you're the only pro-choice candidate running. A Republican holding that position has not won a single primary in 35 years. With the recent Planned Parenthood videos that we have all seen, shedding new light on abortion practices, I know that you have said that you would defund Planned Parenthood. 
 
 PATAKI: Yes. 
 
 MACCALLUM: But has this story changed your heart when it comes to abortion? 
 
 PATAKI: My heart has not changed, because I've always been appalled by abortion. I'm a Catholic, I believe life begins at conception. But as Bill said earlier, Roe v. Wade, it's has been the law for 42 years, and I don't think we should continue to try to change it. 
 
 But we can do is defund Planned Parenthood, and by the way, put in place an absolute permanent ban on any taxpayer dollars ever being used to fund abortions. Also, when you look at these videos, they are horrific and show just a hideous disrespect for life. What else we can do is that we should believe in science. 
 
 PATAKI: You know, Hillary Clinton's always saying how Republicans don't follow science? Well, they're the ones not listening to the scientists today, because doctors say that at 20 weeks that is a viable life inside the womb. And at that point, it's a life that we have the right to protect, and I think we should protect. 
 
 So, I would pass legislation outlawing abortion after 20 weeks. It is Hillary, it is Biden, it is the others who insist on allowing abortion well into viable (inaudible) wrong, and that should be stopped. 
 
 MACCALLUM: All right. 
 
 On the same topic, let's go to Governor Jindal. 
 
 Carly Fiorina, also on the stage, said that she would go so far as to shut down the government over the issue of defunding Planned Parenthood. Would you do that? Would you be willing to shut down the government when it comes to defunding this group? 
 
 JINDAL: Well, a couple of things. Planned Parenthood had better hope that Hillary Clinton wins this election, because I guarantee under President Jindal, January 2017, the Department of Justice and the IRS and everybody else that we can send from the federal government will be going in to Planned Parenthood. 
 
 This is absolutely disgusting, and revolts the conscience of the nation. Absolutely, we need to defund Planned Parenthood. In my own state, for example, we launched an investigation, asked the FBI to cooperate. We just, earlier this week, kicked them out of Medicaid in Louisiana as well, canceled their provider contract. They don't provide any abortions in Louisiana. 
 
 But in terms of shutting down the government, I don't think President Obama should choose to shut down the government simply to send taxpayer dollars to this group that has been caught, I believe, breaking the law, but also offending our values and our ethics. 
 
 It is time for Republicans in D.C. to fight. Too often, they give up, they negotiate with themselves. They said they would get rid of the unconstitutional amnesty. They didn't do that. They said they would repeal Obamacare if we gave them the majority. They didn't do that either. They said they'd shrink and balance the budget. They haven't done that. Absolutely, they should fight to fund -- defund Planned Parenthood, and I don't think the president should shut down the government simply to send our taxpayer dollars to this group. 
 
 MACCALLUM: All right. 
 
 Lindsey Graham, this conversation will no doubt go to the war on women, and that cutting funding to this group could be a very broad brush against all of you or anybody who will hold this nomination as being against women's health, against these organizations that people will say provide positive things for many women. 
 
 GRAHAM: I don't think it's a war on women for all of us as Americans to stand up and stop harvesting organs from little babies. Let's take the money that we would give to Planned Parenthood and put it in women's health care without having to harvest the organs of the unborn. The only way we're going to defund Planned Parenthood is have a pro-life president. 
 
 You want to see a war on women? Come with me to Iraq and Afghanistan, folks. I've been there 35 times. I will show you what they do to women. These mythical Arab armies that my friends talk about that are going to protect us don't exist. If I am president of the United States, we're going to send soldiers back to Iraq, back to Syria, to keep us from being attacked here and keep soldiers in Afghanistan because we must. 
 
 I cannot tell you how much our nation is threatened and how we need a commander in chief who understands the threats to this nation. 
 
 If you're running for president of the United States and you do not understand that we cannot defend this nation without more of our soldiers over there, you are not ready for this job. 
 
 HEMMER: Thank you, Senator. 
 
 Executive power. It appears that you all have a little bit of an issue with it at the moment. I want to move through this as quickly as I can, from stage left to stage right. 
 
 On the second day of his presidency, January 22nd 2009, President Obama signed one of his first executive orders. That was close Guantanamo Bay in Cuba. Still open today. What would be your first executive order? 
 
 Governor Gilmore, start. 
 
 GILMORE: Well, it's not a matter of what the first executive order would be, Bill. The matter is what orders exist now that shouldn't exist? 
 
 The president has done an executive order with respect to illegal immigration that is illegal. Illegal. And it creates a -- a contempt for the law, for the rule of law. If i were the president of the United States, I would go and look at every executive order that exists right now and determine which ones want to be voided, because the president shouldn't be legislating: not through that vehicle or any other. We should be relying upon the leadership of the Congress to pass the laws. 
 
 HEMMER: Senator Graham. 
 
 GRAHAM: Change the Mexico City policy, not take one dime of taxpayer money to fund abortion organizations overseas, and restore the NSA that's been gutted. We're going dark when it comes to detecting the next attack. We have gutted our ability to detect the next attack. And I would not stand for that as president of the United States. I would take the fight to these guys, whatever it took, as long as it took. 
 
 HEMMER: Governor Jindal, your first executive order would be in the White House would be what? 
 
 JINDAL: To repeal these unconstitutional illegal orders, whether it's amnesty or whether it's this president going around the Congress, whether it's in Obamacare, to restore the rule of law. I'd also go after these sanctuary cities, do everything we can to make sure that we are not -- that we are actually prosecuting and cutting off funding for cities that are harboring illegal aliens, and then finally making sure the IRS is not going after conservative or religious groups. 
 
 I would sign an executive order protecting religious liberty, our first amendment rights, so Christian business owners and individuals don't face discrimination for having a traditional view of marriage. 
 
 HEMMER: Governor Perry. 
 
 PERRY: It'll be a pretty busy day, but that Iran negotiation is going to be torn up on day one. We're going to start the process of securing that border. I'm also going to take a bottle of White-Out with me to get started on all those executive orders that Mr. Obama has put his name to. 
 
 HEMMER: That will be a long day. 
 
 PERRY: It will be a long day. 
 
 HEMMER: Senator Santorum? 
 
 SANTORUM: Just ditto to that. 
 
 We're going to suspend -- I've -- I've said this for four years. We're going to suspend and repeal every executive order, every regulation that cost American jobs and is -- is -- is impacting our freedom. 
 
 And second, the First Amendment Defense Act, which is protecting religious liberty, if it's not passed by then, which I suspect it won't, because the president will veto it, I will institute an executive order to make sure that people of faith are not being -- not being harassed and persecuted by the federal government for standing up for the religious beliefs. 
 
 HEMMER: First order, Carly Fiorina? 
 
 FIORINA: I agree with my colleagues. We need to begin by undoing -- I would begin by undoing a whole set of things that President Obama has done, whether it's illegal amnesty or this latest round of EPA regulations. But let me go back to something that's very important. We have been debating right here the core difference between conservatism and progressivism. 
 
 Conservatives, I am a conservative because I believe no one of us is any better than any other one of us. Every one of us is gifted by God, whether it is those poor babies being picked over or it's someone whose life is tangled up in a web of dependence. 
 
 Progressives don't believe that. They believe some are smarter than others, some are better than others, so some are going to need to take care of others. 
 
 That is the fight we have to have, and we have to undo a whole set of things that President Obama has done that get at the heart of his disrespect and disregard for too many Americans. 
 
 HEMMER: Governor Pataki? 
 
 PATAKI: Bill, I defeated Mario Cuomo. In the first day in office, my first executive order, I revoked every one of the executive orders that he had -- he had enacted over the prior 12 years. I would do that to Barack Obama's executive orders. 
 
 But I'd sign a second one, as I did in New York, as well, having a hard hiring freeze on adding new employees except for the military or defense-related positions. I'd sign that executive order. 
 
 When I left the workforce, New York State had been reduced by over 15 percent. We can do that in Washington. I will do that in Washington. 
 
 HEMMER: Thank you all. 
 
 MCCALLUM: Moving on to the next question, President Obama promised hope and change for the country, yet 60 percent of Americans are not satisfied with the shape that the country is in right now. Many think that America has lost its "can do" spirit and that it's not the nation that it once was. 
 
 Ronald Reagan was confronted with a similar atmosphere, and he said that it could be morning in America again. JFK said it was a new frontier. FDR said that we had nothing to fear but fear itself. 
 
 On this level, Carly Fiorina, can you inspire this nation? 
 
 FIORINA: This is a great nation. It is a unique nation in all of human history and on the face of the planet, because here, our founders believed that everyone has a right to fulfill their potential and that that right --they called it life, liberty, the pursuit of happiness -- comes from God and cannot be taken away by government. 
 
 We have arrived at a point in our nation's history where the potential of this nation and too many Americans is being crushed by the weight, the power, the cost, the complexity, the ineptitude, the corruption of the federal government, and only someone who will challenge the status quo of Washington, D.C. can lead the resurgence of this great nation. 
 
 I will do that. 
 
 MCCALLUM: We're talking about tapping into historic levels of leadership and lifting the nation in this kind of way that we're discussing. 
 
 So Senator Santorum, how would you do it? 
 
 SANTORUM: I came to Washington, D.C. in 1990. That sounds like a long time ago. It was. It was 25 years ago, and I came by defeating the Democratic incumbent. I came as a reformer. 
 
 I started the Gang of Seven, and it led to the overtaking of the 40-year Democratic rule of Congress, because I didn't -- I stood up to the old-boy network in Washington, D.C. because I believed that Washington was not the solution, that Washington was the problem, just like Ronald Reagan said. I was a child of Ronald Reagan. 
 
 And I went there, and for 16 years, I fought the insiders and was able to get things done. That's the difference. We need to elect someone who will stand with the American people, who understands its greatness, who understands what an open economy and freedom is all about, but at the same time, has a record of being able to get things done in Washington like we've never seen before. 
 
 Reforms, everything from moral and cultural issues to economic issues. Those of you health savings accounts. Health savings accounts are something that we introduced. It's a private-sector solution that believes in freedom, not Obamacare that believes in government control. 
 
 SANTORUM: Those are the things we brought, and we were able to get things done. If you want someone who's not going to divide Washington, but gets things done, then you should make me your president. 
 
 HEMMER: Thank you, senator. 
 
 MACCALLUM: (inaudible) Lindsey Graham? 
 
 GRAHAM: Thank you. 
 
 First thing I'd tell the American people, whatever it takes to defend our nation, I would do. 
 
 To the 1 percent who have been fighting this war for over a decade, I'd try my best to be a commander-in-chief worthy of your sacrifice. 
 
 We're going to lose Social Security and Medicare if Republicans and Democrats do not come together and find a solution like Ronald Reagan and Tip O'Neill. I will be the Ronald Reagan if I can find a Tip O'Neill. 
 
 When I was 21, my mom died. When I was 22, my dad died. We owned a liquor store, restaurant, bar and we lived in the back. Every penny we needed from -- every penny we got from Social Security, because my sister was a minor, we needed. Today, I'm 60, I'm not married, I don't have any kids. I would give up some Social Security to save a system that Americans are going to depend on now and in the future. 
 
 Half of American seniors would be in poverty without a Social Security check. If you make your president, I'm going to put the country ahead of the party. I'm going to do what it takes to defend this nation. This nation has been great to me, and that's the only way I know to pay you back. 
 
 MACCALLUM: Thank you. 
 
 HEMMER: Thank you, Senator. I need a two-word answer to the following query. In 2008, then-Senator Barack Obama described Hillary Clinton as, quote, "likable enough," end quote. What two words would you use to describe the Democratic frontrunner? Governor Pataki to start. 
 
 PATAKI: Divisive and with no vision. No vision at all. HEMMER: Wow. Carly Fiorina. 
 
 FIORINA: Not trustworthy. No accomplishment. 
 
 UNKNOWN: Secretive and untrustworthy. 
 
 PERRY: Well, let's go with three. Good at email. 
 
 HEMMER: Governor Jindal? 
 
 JINDAL: Socialist and government dependent. 
 
 GRAHAM: Not the change we need at a time we need it. 
 
 HEMMER: Governor? 
 
 GILMORE: Professional politician that can't be trusted. 
 
 HEMMER: Not a lot of compliments. To be continued. 
 
 MACCALLUM: So every candidate will have the opportunity to make a closing statement tonight. Each candidate will have 30 second for that. And we start with Governor Perry. 
 
 PERRY: Well, this is going to be a show me, don't tell me election. I think America is just a few good decisions and a leadership change at the top away from the best years we've ever had. And I think that the record of the governor of the last 14 years of the 12th largest economy in the world is just the medicine America is looking for. 
 
 1.5 million jobs created during the worst economic time this country has had since the Great Depression while the rest of the country lost 400,000 jobs. We're talking about a state that moved graduation rates forward from 27th in the nation to second-highest. As a matter of fact, if you're Hispanic or African-American in Texas, you have the number one high school graduation rates in America. 
 
 Americans are looking for somebody that's going to give them, and there is a place in this country over the last eight years in particular that talked about hope every day, and they didn't just talk about it, they delivered it. And that was the state of Texas. And if we can do that in Texas, that 12th largest economy in the world, we can do it in America. 
 
 Our best days are in front of us. We can reform those entitlements, we can change that corporate tax code and lower it. We can put America back on track on a growth level and a growth rate that we've never seen in the history of this country. Manufacturing will flow back into this country. It just needs a corporate executive type at the top that's done it before. And I will suggest to you nobody's done it like Rick Perry has done it over the last eight years. And if you elect me president, we will bring incredible growth back to this country. And as someone who's worn the uniform of the country, that's how we build our military back up. 
 
 HEMMER: Thank you Governor. Senator Santorum? 
 
 SANTORUM: I'll tell you how optimistic I am about America. Karen and I have seven children. You don't have seven children and bring them into this world if you're not optimistic about the future of this country. 
 
 I am, but people are upset, and they're upset for a reason about the future of this country. Donald Trump actually seized on it when he talked about immigration. And I think the reason he did is because immigration is sort of an example of what's broken and what's wrong in Washington, D..C. 
 
 You see, you have one side, the Democrats, and with immigration, all they care about is votes. They don't care about American workers, they just care about bringing as many people in so they can get as many votes as they can. ON the other side, you have so many Republicans, and what do they care about? Helping business make profits. There's nobody out there looking out for the American worker. 
 
 I'm looking out for the American worker. I'm the only one on this stage who has a plan that's actually reduced -- actually going to reduce immigration. Actually going to do something to help the American worker. And you combine that with a plan to make manufacturing -- this country number one in manufacturing, you've got someone who's going to help revitalize and give hope to America, the place -- the place is that is the most hopeless today. 
 
 That's why I ask for your support for president. 
 
 HEMMER: All right. Senator thank you. 
 
 MACCALLUM: Governor Jindal? 
 
 JINDAL: You know, we've got a lot of great talkers running for president. We've already got a great talker in the White House. We cannot afford four more years of on the job training. We need a doer, not a talker. We also need a nominee, a candidate who will endorse our own principles. 
 
 Jeb Bush says we've got to be willing to lose the primary in order to win the general. Let me translate that for you. That's the establishment telling us to hide our conservative principles to get the left and the media to like us. That never works. If we do that again, we will lose again, we will deserve to lose again. 
 
 One principle, for example, we've got to embrace is on immigration. We must insist on assimilation -- immigration without assimilation is an invasion. We need to tell folks who want to come here, they need to come here legally. They need to learn English, adopt our values, roll up their sleeves and get to work. 
 
 I'm tired of the hyphenated Americans and the division. I've got the backbone, I've got the band width, I've got the experience to get us through this. I'm asking folks not just to join my campaign, but join a cause. It is time to believe in America again. MACCALLUM: Thank you, Governor. 
 
 HEMMER: Carly Fiorina, closing statement. 
 
 FIORINA: Hillary Clinton lies about Benghazi, she lies about e- mails. She is still defending Planned Parenthood, and she is still her party's frontrunner. 2016 is going to be a fight between conservatism, and a Democrat party that is undermining the very character of this nation. We need a nominee who is going to throw every punch, not pull punches, and someone who cannot stumble before he even gets into the ring. 
 
 I am not a member of the political class. I am a conservative; I can win this job, I can do this job, I need your help, I need your support. I will, with your help and support, lead the resurgence of this great nation. 
 
 Thank you. 
 
 HEMMER: Thank you. 
 
 MACCALLUM: Senator Graham. 
 
 GRAHAM: We need somebody ready to be commander-in-chief on day one, who understands there are no moderates in Iran, they've been killed a long time ago. That the Ayatollah is a radical jihadist who really means it when he chants, "Death to America, death to Israel." And this deal is giving him a pathway to a bomb, a missile to deliver it, and money to pay for it all. 
 
 We need a president who can solve our problems, bring us together. We're becoming Greece if we don't work together. At the end of the day, ladies and gentlemen, our best days are ahead of us only if we work together, and I intend to put this country on a path of success by working together and doing the hard things that should have been done a very long time ago. 
 
 HEMMER: And to Governor Pataki, closing statement now. 
 
 PATAKI: With all the candidates, why me? 
 
 My background is different. I look at Washington, and I hear the talk, and I see the promises and it seems nothing ever changes. Washington gets bigger, taxes get higher, and the American people feel more distance from our government. I have the opportunity not just to run, but to win in the deep blue state of New York three times. And not only did I win, but I then worked with a Democratic legislature to put in place the most sweeping conservative reforms of any state in America, taking us from the most dangerous state in America to the fourth safest; reducing our welfare rolls by over 1 million, and replacing over 700,000 private sector jobs. 
 
 I can govern by bringing people together. And also, I've been tested in a way no one else has. I was governor on September 11th, and I'm proud of my leadership in bringing New York through that time. And when I left, we were stronger, we were safer, and we were more united than at any time in my lifetime. 
 
 We need to bring people together in Washington. The talk has got to stop, the action has got to begin. People can promise you something, I delivered in the blue state of New York. I will deliver for the American people if I have the privilege of leading this country. 
 
 HEMMER: Thank you, Governor. 
 
 MACCALLUM: Governor Gilmore. 
 
 GILMORE: Well, I was a conservative governor of Virginia, I governed that way, and that's my track record. But the key thing that we're seeing now is serious challenges to this country that must change, the direction of this nation must change. And that's why I've offered a specific program to the people of America tonight to address the fundamental problem of getting our country growing again, getting our economy growing, wages up, opportunities for people. 
 
 And second, the international crisis we are facing is most dreadful and most dangerous. I have the experience as a prosecutor, attorney general, governor, United States Army intelligence veteran, governor during the 9/11 attack, chairman of the Terrorism Commission for this country. It's time for real substance and real experience. 
 
 And that's what I'll offer to the people of the United States in this candidacy for the presidency. 
 
 MACCALLUM: Thank you, Governor. 
 
 HEMMER: That concludes the first debate of the 2016 Republican primary. We would like to thank all seven of you for being here today. ||||| Republican Presidential candidates Rick Santorum, Carly Fiorina, Mike Huckabee, and Jim Gilmore at the undercard Republican Presidential debate in Des Moines. (Jim Watson/AFP/Getty) 
 
 The undercard Republican debate on Fox News in Des Moines, Iowa included four low-performing candidates: CEO Carly Fiorina, former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee, former Pennsylvania Sen. Rick Santorum, and former Virginia Gov. Jim Gilmore. 
 
 The complete transcript is posted below. 
 
 Co-moderators Martha Maccallum and Bill Hemmer of Fox News welcomed the candidates and the debate began. 
 
 HEMMER: So, here we go. Ninety-seven hours before Iowa chooses, in fact the last two winners in this state are on this stage tonight. Governor Huckabee, in 2008, you won by nine points here, but this time your support seems to be going to Senator Ted Cruz and Donald Trump. Why, Governor, is your message not working this time? 
 
 HUCKABEE: I don't think it's that the message isn't working, I think it's the message isn't getting out because the message that I have this time, Bill, it's exactly what I said eight years ago. I talked about people who are standing on their feet on factory floors, people who lift heavy things, who sweat through their clothes, they're getting gut punched. They are not having a fair shake in this economy. 
 
 I talked about that eight years ago, and I'm talking about it now. I talked about the importance of preserving life, of not just saying we're going to defund Planned Parenthood, but let's do something bolder. Let's get rid of abortion once and for all by applying the Fifth, and Fourteenth amendment to every person from conception because that means that we recognize that no person can be deprived of life or liberty unless they have due process. And, that's not happening in our country. 
 
 And, I believe, and continue to practice that we need the Fair Tax to revive our economy. To make it so that people are able to be rewarded for their work rather than punished for it. 
 
 (APPLAUSE) 
 
 HEMMER: Governor, thank you. 
 
 Senator Santorum, four short years ago you won Iowa. You beat Mitt Romney, pretty much shocked the country. But, just the other day you talked about what is in the greater good for your campaign. Is Monday night your last stand? 
 
 SANTORUM: You know, listening to what your network was talking about prior to this race, this debate, reminded me of the coverage that many on this floor are getting. This race, this debate, was called the, "Undercard Debate". The undercard debate. 
 
 It wasn't advertised significantly. In fact, the entire hour lead up to this there was no conversation about any of the four people on this debate stage, and that is the chronic situation. 
 
 In fact, they listed -- they put a poll up from Wall Street Journal/NBC News, they listed the candidates, and they failed to mention I wasn't listed. I got zero, why? Because they -- NBC, Wall Street Journal poll never includes my name on the list. 
 
 This is what the media has been doing over the past year, and trying to segregate, and take Iowans out of the process. What Iowans deserve... 
 
 (APPLAUSE) 
 
 SANTORUM: ... Is to hear from every candidate on equal footing. Had they applied the same rules four years ago, I would have been in the undercard debate. The guy who won the Iowa Caucuses would have been in the undercard debate, not talked about. 
 
 (BELL RINGING) SANTORUM: We would have been talking about, maybe, an entertainer that may have been trying to run. Ladies and gentlemen, you have a chance on Monday to put the record straight about who you want, not who will entertain you. 
 
 HEMMER: OK. 
 
 SANTORUM: But, who will fight for what you believe in, and I hope you do... 
 
 HEMMER: ... Senator, do you want to name... 
 
 (APPLAUSE) (CHEERING) 
 
 HEMMER: ... Senator, do you want to name that entertainer your refering to? 
 
 SANTORUM: Well, look. The entire lead up to this debate was talking about whether Donald Trump is going to show up for the next debate. 
 
 SANTORUM: The people of Iowa, who I know pretty darn well, care a lot about the issues. They care about who is going to be the leader of the free world. Who is going to be able to take on ISIS and take on Iran and make sure that we're safe. They're concerned about whether... 
 
 (APPLAUSE) 
 
 SANTORUM: Their agriculture programs so their renewable fuel standard is going to be retained. 
 
 (BELL RINGS) 
 
 HEMMER: But senator, since you mentioned... 
 
 SANTORUM: And we are not hearing any of those things. We are hearing about whether someone is going to show up for the next debate or not. 
 
 HEMMER: Senator, quickly then, after this debate, you mentioned Donald trump's name. Immediately, you're going to event across town here in Des Moines as a guest of Donald Trump. 
 
 SANTORUM: Yes, I am. 
 
 HEMMER: So are you laying the groundwork for maybe your future? Perhaps an endorsement of Mr. Trump? 
 
 SANTORUM: You know, this, again, more of the politics of trying to get people to throw stuff at each other. I'm not going to throw mud at anybody on this stage tonight. I'm not going to throw mud at anybody on the stage later. 
 
 (APPLAUSE) 
 
 SANTORUM: I'm not going to attack Donald Trump. What I'm -- Mike Huckabee and I were asked to come to an event where money was going to be raise to do help our veterans. You know, I thought about it. 
 
 (APPLAUSE) 
 
 SANTORUM: And I thought about. I said well, wait a minute, now, if there were no political considerations and I had some time because I'm not doing anything at 9:00 tonight. 
 
 (LAUGHTER) 
 
 And so if I had some time, would I go... 
 
 (BELL RINGS) 
 
 SANTORUM: ... if I could help raise money for veterans? And the answer was yes, I would. And so I'm going. 
 
 (APPLAUSE) 
 
 GILMORE: Well, Bill, can I first... 
 
 HEMMER: Thank you, senator. One moment. We'll get to you in a moment, Governor. We have a few coming up. 
 
 MACCALLUM: So it will come as no surprise that there is an idea out there that there is a civil war brewing within the GOP over the meaning of conservative and the question of who is electable. 
 
 There are some in the GOP who are so outraged by Trump and Cruz that they say they would actually rather have Hillary Clinton in the White House. 
 
 (BOOING) 
 
 MACCALLUM: So, Carly Fiorina, I ask you this. Is your party in crisis? 
 
 FIORINA: You know, when I started my campaign on May 4th of last year, I was 17 out of 16 candidates. Nobody polled my name. Nobody had ever heard of me. Less than 4 percent of you had ever heard of me. 
 
 The people in Iowa showed up and they are still showing up. Hundreds and hundreds of them at every event. I have done over 150 events in the state of Iowa and I have 15 more coming up. 
 
 (APPLAUSE) 
 
 FIORINA: Now, by the way, I start there because someone asked me about midway through my campaign, what's the biggest surprise to you on the campaign trail? And I will tell you what the biggest surprise is: the chasm, the yawning chasm, between what the national media talks about and what the people of Iowa and the people of this great nation talk about. 
 
 (APPLAUSE) 
 
 FIORINA: That's the biggest surprise. So guess what, Martha? Guess what, sorry. The people of Iowa never ask me about a crisis in the GOP, they never ask me about the polls. They never ask me about the other candidates. 
 
 What they ask me about is Carly, tell us why zero based budgeting is so important. Tell us why you are a leader who is going to produce results. Tell us how you are going to defeat ISIS. Tell us how we are going to replace Obamacare. 
 
 In other words, I'm going to put my faith every single time not in the pundits, not in the polls. Most definitely not in the national media. I'm going to put my faith in the common sense and the good judgment of the voters of Iowa. 
 
 And the last time I looked, you hadn't started voting yet. So, on Monday night, I hope you will stand with me, fight with me, caucus for me. Because... 
 
 (BELL RINGS) 
 
 FIORINA: ... citizens, this is why we have to take our government back. The establishment thinks it owns this country. The pundits thinks they own this country. The media thinks they owns this country. We were intended to be a citizen government, citizens. The game is rigged. You have the power. Take our country back. 
 
 HEMMER: Thank you. 
 
 (APPLAUSE) 
 
 HEMMER: Governor Gilmore. As of one week ago, you have not held a single campaign event here in the state of Iowa. As of one week ago, in fact, you were the only one in the Republican field who had not made a campaign visit to this state. You know how it works here. You know how it's worked over time. Why should anyone caucus for you on Monday night? 
 
 GILMORE: Well, first of all, Bill, let me say one thing, I have been in Iowa. But this is not the place where I'm choosing to begin my campaign. I am beginning my campaign in New Hampshire and I decided to do that based upon the process that is in place in Iowa and the primary that's in place in New Hampshire. 
 
 But never mind that, I want to return to something. I'm the only veteran, Bill and Martha in this race. And I'm not going to any Donald Trump event over across town on some sort of faux veteran sort of issue. 
 
 I'm going to speak to you tonight about the issue that really confronts veterans. I'm going to talk to you about the concerns that they have got with the veterans administration. 
 
 The lousy appeals process that they have got. The fact that sometimes they get good service at the V.A. and sometimes they don't and the fact that post traumatic stress syndrome is not properly recognized. That psychology positions are unavailable in the Veterans Administration. 
 
 GILMORE: And I will say this to you -- as the only veteran in -- in this race, when I become president of the United States, the veterans are going to be treated with respect and competently in success in the Veterans' Administration in this country. 
 
 HEMMER: Governor, thank you. 
 
 (APPLAUSE) 
 
 MACCALLUM: Governor Huckabee, word is that New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg is considering getting into this race. If he does, that would make four New Yorkers, including Sanders, Clinton, and Trump. 
 
 One candidate in this race has criticized so-called "New York values". So tell me, in your opinion, are New York values different than Iowa values? 
 
 HUCKABEE: You know, I -- I would leave that to other people. I'm not going to get into an argument with all the New Yorkers, because there's a lot of them. 
 
 (LAUGHTER) 
 
 This much I will tell you. I wish that some of those New Yorkers had funded as much of my campaign as they did the corporately funded candidates, but they didn't. 
 
 And to be honest with you, when I say I'm -- wish they had, I'm glad they didn't. I'm not a New York-funded campaign. I'm not bankrolled by the corporatists, I'm not bankrolled by Goldman Sachs and Citibank and AIG and all the big brokers -- brokerage houses and the billionaires. 
 
 I'm sponsored by people like Thomas, a part-time Uber driver in Pennsylvania who sent me $25 this week. He's between jobs. He's driving an Uber car. But he believed in what I'm talking about enough that, even on a limited, part-time income, he sent me $25 to help in my campaign. 
 
 I'll stand with the Thomases of the world any day. I'll leave all the discussion of the big financiers to other candidates. But there's only a few of us in the entire Republican process who are not corporately funded by the same group. 
 
 And let me just finish by saying, you want to know why things never change depending on whether Democrats or Republicans are in power, and why Republicans in Iowa and the rest of the country are so frustrated? 
 
 The reason is, is because if you follow the money, the same folks who finance the Democrats finance the Republicans, and no matter what the speeches and the ads, they get the same results. 
 
 If you want a different result, I'm available. 
 
 (APPLAUSE) 
 
 MACCALLUM: Thank you, Governor. 
 
 Senator Santorum, according to Google, the Paris terror attacks were the largest story that was searched in 2015, with nearly 1 billion searches of that story worldwide. 
 
 There have been at 18 terror attacks so far this year -- in just January alone, in 2016, and it will likely, as we all know, get worse. But what can an American president do to stop these terrifying killings? 
 
 SANTORUM: Thank you for the question, Martha. 
 
 We have to have an honest discussion with the American people about the nature of the threat that we confront. This president says that ISIS has nothing to do with Islam, and as a result has put together a strategy that doesn't take care of what the reality is, which is ISIS has established a caliphate. 
 
 A caliphate is like a kingdom ruled by -- a caliphate is ruled by a caliph, a kingdom is ruled by a king. Only the difference is a caliphate is also a religious title, and it is both a religious call to help this state, as well a -- to -- to make the state stronger. 
 
 The reality is that ISIS has established a caliphate, and is using that to attract people around the globe to follow them as the leaders of the Sunni world. 
 
 And you say, "well, how do we stop them from following them?" Well, to be a legitimate caliphate, you have to control land and operate a state under sharia law. 
 
 If you don't do that, you cannot call for that support. And so the answer is we must take their land and make them... 
 
 (BELL RINGS) 
 
 ... illegitimate in the eyes of the Muslim world. So I would put troops on the ground and take the land back from Iraq and return to its rightful ownership in Iraq. That would delegitimize them. 
 
 MACCALLUM: Thank you, Senator. 
 
 HEMMER: Ms. Fiorina, same topic. The president says that many are exaggerating the threat from ISIS. To quote him, "this is not World War III, and they do not pose a threat to our national existence." Does he have a point? Does ISIS threaten our ability to survive as a nation? 
 
 FIORINA: Well let me tell you this: news flash, President Obama, news flash, Mrs. Clinton -- climate change is not our most pressing national security threat. 
 
 (APPLAUSE) 
 
 Actually -- actually, it is ISIS, followed closely by Iran. And those two things are linked, so that when our president cozies up to Iran, all of our allies in the Middle East, who are ready to help us defeat ISIS, wonder whose side we're on. And the truth is, under this president, we are on Iran's side, not our allies', who would help us defeat ISIS. 
 
 You know, one of the things we have to start with is understanding that we must stand up to adversaries. So Hillary Clinton famously asked, what difference does it make how four Americans died in Benghazi? This is the difference it makes, Mrs. Clinton. 
 
 FIORINA: When terrorists purposefully attack an American embassy and kill four Americans, including an ambassador, and the next morning you get up and you lie about a videotape that doesn't represent our values, instead of saying the United States of America was purposefully attacked by terrorists, and we will seek retribution, then you are saying to every adversary and every adversary and every terrorist organization on the planet, it's open season. 
 
 That, Mrs. Clinton, is what difference it makes. 
 
 (APPLAUSE) 
 
 HEMMER: Thank you. 
 
 MACCALLUM: Governor Huckabee, you have said when it comes to ISIS, quote: "If Russia is willing to help us kill these savages, then on this they are with us and not against us." 
 
 But we have seen Putin's quote-unquote "help" in Crimea and in Ukraine. And this week the U.K. implicated him in the poisoning death of one of his rivals. So are you foolish to think that we can ever work with Vladimir Putin? 
 
 HUCKABEE: Well, I don't trust him. I've never said I trusted him. But if somebody is willing to take a shot at the people we are taking shots at, I'm more than willing to let them use their own bullets to do it. 
 
 But let's be very clear about how we take out ISIS. And I think Rick Santorum is exactly right. You take away their land. 
 
 But one of the things we have to do is a comprehensive strategy to get ISIS. First of all, take away their access to social media platforms. They are using the same social media platforms to recruit, and to train, and to direct people as I use to see pictures of my grandkids. That's ridiculous. 
 
 The second thing, go after them financially. Wage war with them. Make it so nobody can do commerce with ISIS. Not a nickel of transfer. Any company, any country, that even gets close to dealing with them, absolutely put sanctions on them. Make them pay. 
 
 And finally, you have got to go after them militarily. And that means we send the land, the sea, the air forces, the A-10 Warthogs dropping ordnances on every truck and every tank, and we obliterate them. But we have to understand that they are a force that's getting bigger. And with any kind of cancer, you don't contain it, you eradicate it. And that's how we have to fight ISIS, comprehensively. That's what I would suggest we do. 
 
 (APPLAUSE) 
 
 MACCALLUM: Thank you. 
 
 HEMMER: Governor Gilmore, some time this spring 34 more detainees are cleared from release from Gitmo. If you were president, as you say, this president wants to close it. As president, if Gitmo were closed and an enemy combatant were found or captured in the field of battle, perhaps Syria or Iraq or Libya, and you don't have Gitmo, where would you put them? 
 
 GILMORE: First of all, Bill, I think that Gitmo ought to remain open. But I also want to point out to you that what you are saying is the exact right topic to all of these other candidates. And that's this international challenge that we are facing, the international war that America is in, even to this day. 
 
 And I'm the candidate who is best qualified to deal with this issue. A degree in foreign policy in Russian area studies. I'm the only United States Army veteran having gone to Europe during the Cold War as United States Army Intelligence agent, the governor during the 9/11 attack, the chairman of the National Commission on Homeland Security for the United States for five years. 
 
 And this is what I will do. If I become the president, I'm going to rebuild the United States military. We're going to take the sequester off the defense budget. Give the Navy the ships it needs. Refit the United States Army. Refit the United States Marine Corps. 
 
 And on this international guerrilla war, we need to recognize our Special Forces, our intelligence community, and the people that we need in order to really protect us. 
 
 And finally, this war of ideas, we must win this. We must say to the world that radical Islamism is the threat. It isn't just confined to ISIS. It is worldwide. And if we win the war of ideas, then we will win the international guerrilla war. 
 
 HEMMER: Governor, thank you for that. 
 
 (APPLAUSE) 
 
 MACCALLUM: Coming up, we're going to have more on the top issues in this campaign, and you can engage in tonight's conversation right from home. Go to google.com, search "FOX News debate." You can vote on which candidate you think is winning so far in tonight's debate. And you can check results after the debate is over. 
 
 MACCALLUM: We are back in a moment live from the Iowa Events Center in Des Moines. 
 
 (COMMERCIAL BREAK) 
 
 HEMMER: Welcome back to Des Moines on what will be a long night here. Let's get back to the questions. Let's get back to the questions with Martha. 
 
 MACCALLUM: Alright, Governor Huckabee, government grows and grows. In fact, neighborhoods in and around the Beltway get richer and richer all the time while our manufacturing towns are disappearing. Still Republicans from Reagan to Bush have bowed to shrink the size of government, but it never works. 
 
 Is this Presidency, and presidency, simply too small a David to slay the Goliath of government? 
 
 HUCKABEE: No, I don't think that it's impossible, but we're not going to do it by doing the same things we've been doing for all these many years. And, we've lost five million manufacturing jobs just since the year 2000. 
 
 The other day I was in Newton, Iowa. It used to be a vibrant place where Maytag washers and dryers were built. Went out of business in 2007, all those shops went to Mexico. All those people lost their jobs. There was a guy in my forum that day, he lost his job. He still has never found an employment that got anywhere near the job that he had. 
 
 Let me ask you, how many people do you think living around the Beltway know a guy like that? Care about a guy like that? Not many. And, that's because they're six of the ten richest counties in America that surround Washington D.C. People who live in the bubbles of the high finance world of New York, the government world of Washington, the entertainment world of Hollywood, don't have a clue about how hard people out here in Iowa are working every single day. 
 
 And, I believe one of the values of campaigning in Iowa, you can't win unless you go out and talk to farmers and housewives -- and welders, and unemployed truck drivers, and I hate... 
 
 (BELL RINGING) 
 
 HUCKABEE: ... That a president could become president who never met people who have to struggle to make a living and put food on the table. 
 
 (APPLAUSE) 
 
 MACCALLUM: Alright, Carly Fiorina, you've said that you can get the tax code down to three short simple pages. 
 
 MACCALLUM: But, when lobbyists who have twisted the arms of members of Congress come sit with you in the Oval Office and say, "Madam President, sorry, I cannot be with you on this one," you may understand what previous presidents have gone through. No? 
 
 FIORINA: You know, we have a professional, political class of both parties. We have been talking about the same issues for election cycle after election cycle. Yeah, government is big and out of control, and the only way to get it under control is to control the money. 
 
 And the only way to control the money is to ask the federal government to budget the way you do, to examine every dollar, to cut any dollar to spend -- to move any dollar. 
 
 The fancy word for that is zero-base budgeting. I call it common sense. That three-page tax code I talk about all the time here in Iowa? It's been around for 20 years. But politicians don't want to talk about it, and you bet the lobbyists don't want to talk about it. 
 
 In fact, nobody wants to vote on a three-page tax code or zero- base budgeting, although they've both been around for a long time. You know why? Because if you get those two things done, you are goring everybody's ox. 
 
 You are taking the political establishment apart. You are actually challenging the status quo, which is what we need in the Oval Office. So you know who I'm going to count on? The citizens of this great nation, because you have extraordinary power. 
 
 But when you do not use it... 
 
 (BELL RINGS) 
 
 ... you are losing it. So take out your smartphones, folks. The people of Iowa know what I'm talking about. You take out your smartphones. if you agree with me that three-page tax code needs to be passed, lobbyists aren't going to be in my office. 
 
 If you agree we gotta finally pass zero-base budgeting, take out your smartphones. Press one for yes, ladies and gentlemen. Press two for no. Citizens, we must take our country back. 
 
 (APPLAUSE) 
 
 HEMMER: Let me stay with you, Ms. Fiorina. You've said you will shrink the federal government by 30 percent over the next two years, and those jobs will not be filled, and you'll do it through retirement. 
 
 Your critics would argue that's exactly what you did at Hewlett Packard when 30,000 people lost their jobs. If it did not work at H.P., why would it work at the federal government? 
 
 FIORINA: Well, first of all, I haven't said that. What I have said is that in the process of examining every dollar, cutting any dollar and moving any dollar, we happen to know that in this vast federal bureaucracy we have about 260,000 federal government employees who are going to retire, and we shouldn't replace them. 
 
 Secondly, at Hewlett Packard, as you know -- the people of Iowa know this -- we went through a tough time. The worst technology recession in 25 years -- a great company called Gateway used to do be right here in Iowa. But they didn't make the tough calls necessary to save all those jobs, and so they lost every one of those jobs. 
 
 Yes, I've had to make some tough calls. We saved 80,000 jobs. We went on to grow to 160,000 jobs. And, frankly, I think the American people know we need a president who's going to make some tough calls. 
 
 So let me tell you where I'm going to start. The American people got a bill passed through Congress that said we could fire the top 400 senior executives at the V.A. for dereliction of duty. 
 
 When we know that 307,000 veterans have died waiting for health care and the V.A. handed out $142 million worth of bonuses for superb performance, I'm going to start by firing 400... 
 
 (BELL RINGS) 
 
 ... senior executives at the V.A. 
 
 (APPLAUSE) 
 
 HEMMER: Thank you. 
 
 MACCALLUM: Senator Santorum, Bernie Sanders asked a woman in Iowa what it's like to live in poverty. She broke down in tears, saying that she lives on less than $10,000 a year and that she is ashamed every day. 
 
 She leans on her parents for help. She says she can't buy presents for her children. We are all sympathetic to this woman's plight. On the other hand, the G.O.P. is supposed to be the party of smaller government. So what would you look her in the eye and say? 
 
 SANTORUM: What I would say is that we have to create jobs that give people wages and benefits that can help them provide for themselves and their families. And that's why I announced from a factory floor in western Pennsylvania, I pledge to make America the number one manufacturing nation, again, in the world. And we can do it. China is starting to reorient itself away from a manufacturing economy that's dumping products on the -- overseas to providing more services to their people. 
 
 This is an opportunity for America. It's an opportunity for us to get those jobs back. And by the way, do you want to solve global climate change? Take 2 million jobs from China in manufacturing and moving them back here to the United States, where we produce one-fifth the CO2 when we make things. 
 
 (APPLAUSE) 
 
 We can help -- we can do every -- we can do it all. We can take care of the environment. We can create more jobs here. Seventy-four percent of Americans don't have a college degree. 
 
 And unfortunately most folks who, in the Republican Party, don't talk about what we're going to do to create jobs for people who feel like neither political party cares about them. 
 
 (BELL RINGS) 
 
 When you elect me, we'll create opportunities for working men and women in this country -- all over this country. 
 
 MACCALLUM: Thank you, Senator. 
 
 HEMMER: Governor Huckabee, Nikki Haley, Republican governor from South Carolina, recently said... 
 
 GILMORE: Hey, did you miss me? Did you skip me? 
 
 HEMMER: I did not, but we... 
 
 GILMORE: I'm going to have something to say about this, but you just keep going. 
 
 HEMMER: We have plenty for you -- you bet, Governor. We have a couple more in the hopper for you in a moment here. 
 
 GILMORE: Yes, I'll be there. 
 
 (LAUGHTER) 
 
 HEMMER: First, Governor -- Governor Huckabee, Nikki Haley warned about listening to "the siren call of the angriest voices," to which Donald Trump said he is "very, very angry." Who is right, Governor? 
 
 HUCKABEE: A lot of Americans are angry. And I think it's important to understand why they are mad. They are mad because they see a government that continues to do fine. They see people at the top. They are doing fine. 
 
 But that person you asked Rick about a moment ago, that lady that's making 10,000 bucks a year, do you know what our poverty programs do to people? They keep them in poverty. 
 
 They keep them in poverty because we have these arbitrary thresholds... 
 
 (APPLAUSE) 
 
 HUCKABEE: ... that mean that if you go to work, you lose all the benefits for your kids, Medicaid, WIC, Section 8 housing, food stamps, and then your kids go hungry. I know a little about poverty. My sister is here tonight. Now both of us could tell you we did not grow up rich. 
 
 My mother grew up in a house, oldest of seven kids. She had lived in a house that didn't have floors. Just dirt. No electricity. No running water. I resent it when people say, oh, people are poor because they want to be. No, they are not. 
 
 Nobody wants to be poor. And that's a stupid, foolish thing, mean thing to say. People are poor because they don't know how to get out of the hole. And government shouldn't push them back in the hole which is what our policies do when they punish people who want to go to work and don't let them out. (APPLAUSE) 
 
 HUCKABEE: We can fix that, but it takes some leadership to get it done. 
 
 HEMMER: Thank you, Governor. 
 
 (APPLAUSE) 
 
 MACCULLUM: Governor Gilmore, thanks to the Iranian nuclear deal, President Rouhani is currently on a tour of Europe meeting with our closest allies in France and Italy. In fact, he has already landed some 50 to 85 billion are the estimates in deals with those countries, with our allies. More on the way. 
 
 You and others say that you would rip up that deal. But, really, by the time the next president is in office, won't that horse be well out of the barn? 
 
 GILMORE: You know, Martha, it may be out of the barn in that the Iranians may be moving towards a nuclear program, because this nuclear deal actually gives them a time frame up the road when they are going to be able to do that kind of program. 
 
 And that's very dangerous because it means people in the Middle East have to begin to react to that right now. The United States, I think, has to continue to exercise its influence in the Middle East, stay active, and not do this pull-back type of program that we are seeing all over the place with President Obama, which is creating this kind of danger. 
 
 The world is a more dangerous place now than when I was an intelligence agent. We have not only this international guerrilla war but also these challenges from these other countries as well. 
 
 But, Martha, I want to say one more thing to you and Bill. I disagree with Carly Fiorina when she says that it's just a political class in Washington. The truth is that the country has changed. And there are powerful forces at this point that are really controlling our lives. And that's why people are so angry. 
 
 One of those is government, which is regulating everything through the Environmental Protection Agency, through other places. But the biggest one is the organized establishment media. 
 
 And I just noticed just now you gave Carly Fiorina two one-minute answers in a row. This media across the country is manipulating and shaping and framing this campaign and has been for at least a year now in order to get the kind of choices that people are going to have an opportunity to see. 
 
 This is wrong. It has to change. And when I'm president, it's going to change. 
 
 (APPLAUSE) 
 
 MACCULLUM: We have another question for you, Governor Gilmore, back to back, here we go. According to Google... 
 
 GILMORE: I'll take it. 
 
 (LAUGHTER) 
 
 MACCULLUM: You got it. According to Google, gun control is the most searched issue last month, making up nearly 80 percent of all the U.S. searches. People are looking for information on guns. 
 
 When it comes to the tragic mass killings that we have seen in this country, Donald Trump says that what we need to do is build quote "more institutions for people who are sickos." 
 
 Charles Krauthammer also says that in some cases involuntary commitment would help. And you have agreed with that. Given that institutions would be extraordinarily expensive to begin building, how much is too much to ask on this from the American taxpayer? 
 
 GILMORE: Martha, I just visited a community mental health clinic in Portsmouth, New Hampshire, just three days ago, as a matter of fact. And when I was governor of Virginia, I tried to move more of those resources into the community, which will give us the facilities and the abilities to begin to identify people who actually might be dangerous and who abuse Second Amendment rights. 
 
 But I do believe this is one of the really principle issues in this campaign. The president and Hillary Clinton are working very hard to change the culture of this country in order to put us in a position where we can't exercise Second Amendment rights. 
 
 That's wrong. I am a board member of the National Rifle Association. 
 
 GILMORE: The reason I'm a board member is because I believe that individuals in this country can be trusted to exercise their rights under the Second Amendment and under the Bill of Rights. To take away people's Second Amendment rights is to redefine the individual in the society, and I'm not going to put up with it. As President of the United States, when Jim Gilmore's President of the United States, I can tell you this. Gun control is not going to be an issue. 
 
 If gun control... 
 
 (BELL RINGING) 
 
 GILMORE: ... comes to the President's desk when I'm president, I'll veto it as fast as it takes Hillary Clinton to eliminate her emails. 
 
 (APPLAUSE) 
 
 MACCALLUM: Thank you, Governor Gilmore. 
 
 HEMMER: Governor Huckabee, you've mentioned the economy several times tonight. Let's go back to that for a moment because in America today 50% (ph) of the American workers are making less than $30,000 dollars a year. Let's talk about what you could do for them. 
 
 The Conservative Club for Growth has had an issue with your policy on taxes for years. In fact, it called you, "Tax Hike Mike". And, the record shows state spending in Arkansas increased 54% when you were in charge, 94% if you include federal dollars during that same period. When it comes to helping people at the margins, $30,000, $32,000 dollars a year, what's better? A tax and spend approach, or shrinking government? 
 
 HUCKABEE: Well, I didn't have a tax and spend approach. You got to understand where the Club for Growth comes from, a bunch of rich guys sitting around writing checks to go after people they don't like. And, they don't like me sometimes because I was fighting for the guys at the bottom, not just the guys at the top. I cut 94 taxes in a state that had never had a general major tax decrease in its history. 
 
 I also was able to see per capita income growth in my state go up by 50%. I think that's a pretty darn good record. Look at the overall record and it was fine. 
 
 But, it's not about stats from when I was governor. Look, one of the reasons I support the Fairtax is because it's the one thing, Bill, that would truly empower people at the bottom of the economy by no longer punishing them for their work. 
 
 If a guy works an hourly job, and he works eight hours, gets paid for it, terrific. But, if he works 16 hours, he doesn't get a double paycheck because he's going to be bumped up into a new tax bracket, and the government will get more of his second shift than he will. So, we've actually punished him for being industrious, hardworking, and that is a foolish economic policy... 
 
 (BELL RINGING) 
 
 HUCKABEE: ... That's hurting Americans about as much as anything. 
 
 (APPLAUSE) 
 
 HEMMER: Governor Huckabee, thank you. Same issue, Senator Santorum. The President says criticism of his economic policy is political hot air. You consistently talk about manufacturing jobs leaving America. You support a flat tax of 20%. How would a flat tax bring back two million jobs to America? 
 
 SANTORUM: Well, in fact, the plan that I put forward is scored by the Tax Foundation as bringing three and a half million jobs into this country, and we have provisions in the flat tax for the corporate side that actually has a phase in of manufacturing. Manufacturers initially don't pay any income tax. Ten percent the next year, and 20. 
 
 We're going to also have a repatriation provision which says that if you have money overseas, and you're Apple, and you got a couple hundred billion dollars there, bring it back. The most you'll be taxed 10%, invest it here in America. Create jobs here in America with all that money that's sitting overseas. 
 
 We also -- it's not just taxes. It's regulation. I've pledged to cut every single Obamacare -- I mean, excuse me, Obama regulation, including Obamacare, and remove those regulations that cost more than a hundred million dollars in the economy. That will liberate -- and that includes waters of the U.S., and the ozone regulations, they -- the mercury regulations. All of these just crush our manufactures and don't create an opportunity for us to survive. 
 
 And, remember, China produces five times as much CO2 and other pollutants per dollar of GDP as we do. 
 
 (BELL RINGING) 
 
 SANTORUM: You want to help the environment? Bring jobs back to America. 
 
 (APPLAUSE) 
 
 HEMMER: Senator, thank you. 
 
 MACCALLUM: Still more to come from the Republican Presidential debate tonight. 
 
 MACCALLUM: And, see how the campaigns are responding to the debate in realtime, go to Google.com and open your google search app. Type in, "Fox News Debate". 
 
 We'll see you, just a moment -- back. 
 
 (APPLAUSE) 
 
 (COMMERCIAL BREAK ) 
 
 MACCALLUM: We are back live at the Iowa events center and this question goes to Carly Fiorina. In the last debate you said as part of your introduction, quote, " And unlike the other woman candidate in this case I actually love spending time with my husband." 
 
 (LAUGHTER) 
 
 FIORINA: He is right there. He is right there. 
 
 MACCALLUM: But back in September in an interview you said that you would stick only to the record, your record versus Hillary Clinton's record. And never resort to personal attacks. So what changed? 
 
 FIORINA: It wasn't a personal attack. I was pointing out the fact that Hillary Clinton will do anything to gain and hang on to power, anything. Listen, if my husband did what Bill Clinton did, I would have left him long ago. 
 
 (APPLAUSE) 
 
 FIORINA: So, here's the deal. Hillary Clinton has been climbing the ladder to try and get power and here now she is trying for the White House. She is probably more qualified for the big house, honestly. 
 
 (LAUGHTER) 
 
 She has escaped prosecution more times than El Chapo, perhaps Sean Penn should interview her. 
 
 (LAUGHTER) 
 
 The woman should be prosecuted. 
 
 (APPLAUSE) FIORINA: And while Mrs. Clinton has flown hundreds of thousands of world around the global, I have too. And I know flying is an activity not an accomplishment. While I know that she has held many positions and many titles she has not accomplished much of anything in her life. She has gotten every single foreign policy challenge wrong. 
 
 (BELL RINGS) 
 
 She continues to lie to the American people. It's called the Clinton way. Both Bill and Hillary practice it, the Clinton way. Say whatever you have to say, do whatever you have to say. Lie as long as you can get away with it. Hillary Clinton cannot be the president of these United States. 
 
 (APPLAUSE) 
 
 MACCALLUM: All right. Carly, I want to stay with you on this next question as well. 
 
 You waded into the Planned Parenthood early on. You took some heat for it. Now the people who shot that undercover video are the ones who got indicted and Planned Parenthood is untouched. Hillary Clinton has been crowing about this. Any regrets about this? 
 
 FIORINA: Well, you know, Hillary Clinton hasn't been indicted either. So that tells us a lot about our justice system in this country. But, look, the facts of Planned Parenthood have not changed, folks, and I will not be rendered silent on this issue or any other issue. 
 
 And it doesn't matter what stage I'm on. Here are the facts. Planned Parenthood engages in partial birth abortion, in late-term abortion. They alter those abortion techniques to harvest and sell body parts. They have admitted that they are not going to accept compensation for this anymore. 
 
 The reality is, most Americans find this practice horrific. Most Americans find horrific that Hillary Clinton's position on this is it's not a life until it's born. Most Americans find horrific Hillary Clinton's position or the Democrat party's position, that a young woman does not need her mother's permission to get an abortion. 
 
 But if you are 13 years old, you can get an abortion, but you can't go to a tanning salon without your mother's permission. A president Fiorina -- in a president Fiorina budget, there will not be one dime for Planned Parenthood, although there would be a lot of money for women's health and we will finally pass the pain capable unborn child protection act. 
 
 I will always stand for life and religious liberty... 
 
 (BELL RINGS) 
 
 ... because this is about the character of our nation. 
 
 (APPLAUSE) MACCALLUM: Thank you Carly Fiorina. Let me just ask a quick question here to Senator Santorum. 
 
 Carly Fiorina was the only one of the GOP candidates to attend the March for Life in Washington last week. Where were you. 
 
 SANTORUM: Well, I've been to the March for Life for about 25 years and I thought -- I think that's a pretty good record. 
 
 (APPLAUSE) 
 
 SANTORUM: Spoken at it a few times and I have shepherded every single piece of pro-life piece of legislation that's passed over the last 20 years. I've either authored it or shepherded it through the United States Congress and I'm pretty proud of that record too. 
 
 (APPLAUSE) 
 
 SANTORUM: But we have an election going on and there was some snow coming. So I decided that maybe it would be better for me to get out and do some campaigning and not be stuck as my wife and kids were for a week, piling out of two and a half feet of snow. 
 
 So, here's what I would say. If you want someone that is going to talk a good game, there are a lot of folks on this stage that have talked a good game on the issue of life. 
 
 Not only have I talked a good game on life and I've done some things. But I've also lived it. You know, one of the things Saint Francis said was, you know, if you preach the gospel, then if you have to, speak. 
 
 The bottom line is, that twice in my life, we were counseled to have an abortion, one with our son Gabriel and one with our little girl Bella. And neither time did Karen and I for a moment think about it because we know that life begins at conception. 
 
 We know the dignity of every human life and we know the potential of every child, no matter how long that life lives. And that is a message that can come across to all Americans and without having to say a word and defend the institution of life and the dignity of life in this country. 
 
 (APPLAUSE) 
 
 FIORINA: Martha, can I just say we've been talking tonight about a lot of issues and we've also been talking about the fact that the game is rigged and frankly, the media has a lot to do with that. 
 
 It is outrageous frankly, that Fox News, and you, would question the pro-life credentials of Rick Santorum. 
 
 (APPLAUSE) 
 
 FIORINA: That is outrageous. 
 
 (APPLAUSE) 
 
 HEMMER: Thank you Ms. Fiorina. 
 
 Governor Gilmore. Who are the moderate Muslims do you seek advice and counsel from on how to deal with the threat from radical Islamic terrorism? 
 
 GILMORE: You know Bill, that raises, I think, the question of the future of the Republican party. The question is -- first of all, I stand second to no one in standing up to radical Islamism. I understand that ISIS is a piece of that but it is a world-wide phenomena that has manifested itself in Paris, in 9/11, in San Bernardino, in Boston. 
 
 I recognize all that. But I also recognize this. This is a strain of Islamism that cannot be supported and cannot be stood for. And what we need is for people in the Muslim community in the United States to stand up and be counted and to say that this is not right. 
 
 And yes, I have met with some people. And I'm not going to identify who they are. I met with them last week. And they told me some terrible stories about how they have been harassed and their children have seen them be harassed. 
 
 And I said to them. You have got to stand up and condemn this radical Islamism because it's the war of ideas that we are going to have to win to go along with our military conflicts that are coming forward. 
 
 But the point is Bill... 
 
 (BELL RINGS) 
 
 ... we cannot have a Republican party that scapegoats anyone, Hispanics, Muslims, any women, African Americans, anyone. If that becomes the future of the Republican party, I don't want to be a part of that. 
 
 HEMMER: Thank you governor. 
 
 (APPLAUSE) 
 
 HEMMER: Governor Huckabee. Here in Iowa 43 percent of Democratic caucus goers describe themselves as socialist. That's a higher number than those who say they are capitalist. I guess you could say, they're feeling the burn. 
 
 (LAUGHTER) 
 
 HEMMER: This is a country rooted in capitalism, the United States of America. How did we get here? 
 
 HUCKABEE: I honestly don't understand how anybody with IQ above plant life would honestly think... 
 
 (LAUGHTER) 
 
 HUCKABEE: ... that we would be better off if we let the government have all of the private property and that the government would dole out what they thought we should have. 
 
 I'm not "feeling the Bern," Bill. I'm not feeling it. 
 
 (APPLAUSE) 
 
 HUCKABEE: And when Bernie Sanders promises these kids free college, I'm telling them, because I get asked, what about free college? I said, look, if we give you free college when you are 20, pal, you are going to be paying for it when you are 30, when you are 40, and when you are 50. 
 
 (APPLAUSE) 
 
 HUCKABEE: There is no such thing as the government giving you anything. They will definitely make a mess of it. 
 
 And I just think there are a lot of people who have never understood the basic understanding of economics, that you do not make people rich by tearing down those who are you providing jobs, and you don't help poor people by taking away. 
 
 You give them jobs. Let them work. Let them earn. And then you let them keep the money that they earned. That's how we build a great economy. 
 
 (APPLAUSE) 
 
 HEMMER: Thank you, Governor. 
 
 Senator Santorum, the president says politics in America have become meaner over the past several years with him in the White House. Two weeks ago at the State of the Union he said the following. "A president with the gifts of Lincoln or Roosevelt might have better bridged the divide." 
 
 HEMMER: Lincoln and Roosevelt, that's pretty good company. If he is right, do Republicans share some of the blame? 
 
 SANTORUM: The president of the United States has been the most divisive president in -- certainly in my lifetime. This is a man who constantly... 
 
 (APPLAUSE) 
 
 SANTORUM: He is not trustworthy. You can't sit down and negotiate with him. He won't keep a deal. We have heard that over and over again. And here is what he does that really, really creates the friction in Washington. 
 
 He personally attacks people. He ascribes motives to them that aren't true and then he tears them down. How are you going to work with someone if you don't treat them decently, honestly, and respectfully? 
 
 I was a tough fighter when I was in Washington. I had very sharp elbows. I fought. I went there and joined a game named Jim Nussle here from Iowa with the "gang of seven." And we, in four years' time, took a Congress that had been controlled by Democrats for 40 years, and brought in the first Republican majority because we fought and we fought tough. 
 
 But you know what? I was able to then work with those same people that we fought with and able to pass welfare reform. Unborn Victims of Violence Act. Pro-life bills. Health savings accounts. 
 
 A whole laundry list of things not because I was mean, but because I was able to be respectful in the disagreements. And that's what we need in Washington, someone who can be respectful and still unite this country. 
 
 (APPLAUSE) 
 
 HEMMER: Thank you, Senator. 
 
 MACCALLUM: All right. Coming up, we will have the closing statements from our candidates tonight as we continue live from the Iowa Events Center in Des Moines. We'll be right back. 
 
 (COMMERCIAL BREAK) 
 
 HEMMER: In the closing few moments, the candidates have an opportunity to make a closing statement, 30 seconds for each. And, we want to start tonight with the former Virginia Governor, Jim Gilmore. 
 
 GILMORE: Well, thank you very much, Bill. And, thank you, and Fox and Google for including me in this debate tonight. I think it's been a wonderful opportunity. 
 
 I'm the son of a meat cutter. My father worked for Safeway stores for 45 years. My mother was a secretary, she ended her career as the Secretary for the Methodist Bishop. I didn't have a father that could give me a million dollar loan to start my business. But, my father did talk character, and he provided for his family, and he was a wonderful example. 
 
 And, I'm not about to go across town tonight to carry the coat for some billionaire. Instead, I intend to run for President of the United States, speak to the issue of this international war, and challenge that we're in. This issue of veterans rights, and the issue of Second Amendment rights, and I ask for your support... 
 
 HEMMER: ... Thank you, Governor. 
 
 (APPLAUSE) 
 
 MACCALLUM: Alright, let's go now to Senator Rick Santorum. 
 
 SANTORUM: I just want to thank the people of Iowa. Over the last five years I've done 700 speeches and town hall meetings all throughout the state of Iowa, and it has been an incredible right. Thank you. 
 
 (APPLAUSE) 
 
 I want to thank all the wonderful folks like Pastor Carey (ph) Gordon (ph) who gave me a smooth stone and said you go slay Goliaths. Someone like Jim and Janet Cook who over this past Christmas gave up Christmas presents for their kids, and they have more than I do, just they can help me and my campaign. 
 
 That's the kind of people... 
 
 (BELL RINGING) SANTORUM: ... in Iowa. And, here's what I'm asking you to do. You're good people. You know good leaders. Lead. Pick the right person, not what the polls say. Not who the money give people to. Pick the leader you know is best for this country. Thank you. 
 
 (APPLAUSE) (CHEERING) 
 
 HEMMER: Governor Huckabee. 
 
 HUCKABEE: Well, this week there was a little dust up about a video we put together with the music of Adele, so I thought it'd be appropriate for me to begin tonight by saying, "Hello, Iowa. It's me." 
 
 MACCALLUM: (LAUGHING) 
 
 HUCKABEE: And, you know me. You gave me the largest number of votes in the history of the Iowa caucus eight years ago, and I think you did it because you trusted me, you believed that I had your best interest at heart. 
 
 When I was governor I had a little plaque in my office in the Governor's office, and it simply said this. Come, let us reason together. 
 
 (BELL RINGING) 
 
 HUCKABEE: I believe the next President needs to put that plaque in the oval office, and needs to lead this country by saying, "Come, let us reason together." 
 
 God bless you, and thank you for your support. 
 
 (APPLAUSE) (CHEERING) 
 
 HEMMER: Thank you, Governor. 
 
 MACCALLUM: Carly Fiorina. 
 
 FIORINA: In over 150 events I have come to know and love the people of Iowa. And the people of Iowa know what the rest of Americans have figured out, this ain't working anymore. The government no longer works for those who pay for it. The professional political class says and does whatever they need to do to win, and then does whatever they please. 
 
 We need to return to a citizen government. That is why I am running for President. The media, the establishment, they all want to tell you this elections over, they know who's going to win it, except that you haven't... 
 
 (BELL RINGING) 
 
 FIORINA: ... cast a single vote yet. So, the people of Iowa, stand with me, fight with me. Caucus for me. It is time to take our country back. 
 
 MACCALLUM: Thank you, Carly. 
 
 (APPLAUSE) 
 
 HEMMER: That concludes our debate tonight, but the night has just begun. 
 
 MACCALLUM: In one hour, seven more candidates take the stage for a debate hosted by Bret Baier, Megyn Kelly, and Chris Wallace. But, up next, the O'Reilly Factor. 
 
 Good night everybody.
– And then there were 14 ... on the GOP side only, a presidential field that NJ.com reports was last this big when Abraham Lincoln won in 1860. Chris Christie today threw his hat into the ring by way of an announcement made at Livingston High School, his alma mater and the town where "everything started ... for me." Politico reported that Christie's announcement would be made telepromter-free, as befitting his "Telling it like it is" campaign slogan. He kicked things off with stories of his roots—hard work, not much money—and what his mother told him: "God's given you so many gifts. If you just work hard enough, you can be anything." Ten standout lines from there: "Both parties have failed our country." "I wake up every morning knowing I have the opportunity to do something great. That's why this job is a great job, and why president of the United States is an even greater job." "America is tired of weakness in the Oval Office ... and that is why today I'm proud to announce my candidacy." "The lying and stealing has already happened. The horse is out of the barn. We've got to get it back in and you can only do it by force." "After seven years I heard the president say the other day that the world respects" America more "because of his leadership. This is confirmation that Obama lives in his own world, not ours." "We better not turn [this world] over to his second mate Hillary Clinton." "I am not running for president of the United States as a surrogate for being prom king of America. I mean what I say and I say what I mean and that's what America needs right now." "And unlike some people who will offer themselves for the presidency, you're not going to have to wonder if I can do it or not." He promised a campaign "without focus-group-tested answers. A campaign when I'm asked a question I'm going to give an answer to the question that's asked, not the answer my political consultants told me to give backstage." "We are going to tell it like it is today ... the truth will set us free, everybody."