url: =Aqhna, 15 Febroyarioy 1999\nOpws gnwrizete o Prwqypoyrgos oloklhrwnei shmera thn periodeia toy se poleis ths B. Elladas. Meta to meshmeri qa parakaqisei se geyma me toys boyleytes kai paragontes ths Qessalonikhs kai nwris to apogeyma qa epistrecei sthn Aqhna.\nGia to programma toy qa sas enhmerwsw, isws, ayrio.\nPARIS: Xqes ebgale kapoia dhlwsh to PKK opoy metajy twn allwn leei oti h Ellada prepei na afhsei thn asafeia, oson afora th xorhghsh politikoy asyloy ston Otsalan. Qa hqela na rwthsw, an exei ypoblhqei kapoio aithma gia xorhghsh politikoy asyloy kai an yparxei kapoia tetoia skech sthn kybernhsh gia allagh pleysews oson afora thn eleysh toy Otsalan.\nREPPAS: Den exei ypoblhqei aithsh gia xorhghsh asyloy ston k. Otsalan. Den epiqymoyme na ginei kati tetoio, giati pisteyoyme oti h ejelijh ayth den symballei qetika ston agwna toy idioy toy koyrdikoy laoy. H qesh mas einai apolytws safhs. Exoyme analabei sto parelqon prwtoboylies. Analambanoyme kai twra prwtoboylies kai sto mellon, efoson xreiastei, qa synexisoyme na analambanoyme prwtoboylies, prokeimenoy na anadeijoyme to qema toy sebasmoy twn anqrwpinwn dikaiwmatwn twn Koyrdwn sthn Toyrkia. Kai ayth thn wra ginontai diplwmatikes energeies, prokeimenoy na doqei epiteloys lysh se ayto to problhma. Kata ta alla, paramenoyme sth qesh poy me safhneia edw kai kairo exoyme diatypwsei, oti den qewroyme xrhsimh kai skopimh thn paroysia toy hgeth twn Koyrdwn sthn Ellada.\nMe thn eykairia ths erwthshs sas prepei na apodokimasw to tmhma ekeino ths dhlwshs poy mesw yponooymenwn anaferetai sthn poreia ths istorias ths xwras mas. Qa prepei osoi miloyn kai prattoyn, na exoyn synaisqhsh gi` ayta poy lene kai gi` ayta poy kanoyn. Xreiazetai na deijoyme oloi megalh ypeyqynothta. Kai epiteloys, den einai qema epi toy opoioy kapoioi emplekomenoi qa analaboyn prwtoboylies, epidiwkontas na wfelhqoyn oi idioi, na dhmioyrghsoyn oi idioi gia ton eayto toys ena "proodeytiko" h "aristero" profil.\nAyta ta qemata ta xeirizetai h ellhnikh kybernhsh me megalh eqnikh eyaisqhsia. H kybernhsh einai konta ston agwna twn Koyrdwn gia na ginoyn sebasta ta dikaiwmata toys. Apo kei pera, bebaiws, qa prepei na yparxei mia antidiastolh anamesa sthn eyqynh h opoia prepei na diakrinei ayth th symbolh mas sto na bohqhsoyme ton koyrdiko lao kai thn aneyqynothta olwn ekeinwn oi opoioi qeloyn na ektrecoyn ayton ton agwna kai ws ek toytoy na ton periorisoyn ws ena shmeio tribhs sto plaisio twn ellhnotoyrkikwn sxesewn.\nPARIS: Otan lete "den epiqymoyme kati tetoio", ennoeite oti den epiqymoyme na xorhghsoyme politiko asylo h den qa xorhghsoyme politiko asylo;\nREPPAS: Eipame oti den epiqymoyme ayth thn ejelijh. Efoson ypoblhqei mia tetoia aithsh, apanthsa hdh -afoy gnwrizete thn politikh qesh mas- poia qa einai h tyxh ayths ths aithshs.\nPARIS: Eipate oti briskontai se ejelijh kapoies diplwmatikes prospaqeies. Mporeite na ginete pio safhs; Metexei kai h Ellada se aytes tis prospaqeies;\nREPPAS: Ginontai diplwmatikes energeies gia tis opoies den qa hqela ayth thn wra na milhsw me perissoteres leptomereies. H Ellada symmetexei se aytes tis diadikasies mazi me alles xwres ths Eyrwpaikhs Enwshs gia thn anazhthsh mias oristikhs lyshs gia to sygkekrimeno qema.\nKIAOS: Anafereste sthn tyxh toy Otsalan h sto Koyrdiko;\nREPPAS: Anaferomai sto neo qema poy afora th diasfalish ths zwhs toy Koyrdoy hgeth kai bebaiws, thn antimetwpish toy koyrdikoy zhthmatos, toy opoioy h lysh aytomatws qa apotelesei kai lysh olwn twn parepomenwn problhmatwn poy dhmioyrgoyntai logw toy oti yparxei to koyrdiko problhma.\nKIAOS: Me thn eykairia qa hqela na sas rwthsw poy brisketai h ejelijh ths epixeirhshs poy egine to prwi me th metafora twn Koyrdwn poy briskontan sthn plateia Koymoyndoyroy;\nREPPAS: Ej oswn plhroforoymai, oloklhrwqhke h synergasia twn dhmarxwn ths perioxhs me ton armodio Yfypoyrgo Ygeias kai Pronoias k. Kotswnh. To pneyma, apo tis plhrofories poy exw, poy prokeitai na metaferoyn oi dhmarxoi stoys katoikoys ths perioxhs einai ena pneyma katanohshs gia toys xeimazomenoys Koyrdoys kai mia prospaqeia na peistoyn oi katoikoi oti prepei na filojenhqoyn se ekeino to ktisma proswrina, gia mikro xroniko diasthma, oi Koyrdoi poy eixan kataskhnwsei sthn plateia Koymoyndoyroy. Ayto einai kati poy pisteyw oti antapokrinetai sta aisqhmata anqrwpismoy kai allhleggyhs twn katoikwn ths perioxhs. Arghsame, isws, na antimetwpisoyme ayto to qema. Pisteyw, omws, oti einai ypokrisia, se qewrhtiko epipedo na miloyme gia kapoies ajies kai thn krisimh wra poy prepei na pragmatwsoyme tis ajies aytes, na exoyme mia stash h opoia apexei poly apo thn pragmatwsh toys. H prospaqeia ths kybernhshs htan h kalyterh dynath. H kybernhsh pisteyei pws h lysh poy dinei sto problhma -proswrinh lysh epanalambanw- einai o epibeblhmenos xeirismos na egkatastaqoyn se ayta ta ktiria oi Koyrdoi metanastes kai se armonikes synqhkes me toys katoikoys ths perioxhs, se ayto to mikro xroniko diasthma, na zhsoyn xwris na exoyn oi idioi problhmata kai xwris na dhmioyrgoyn se alloys problhmata.\nKIAOS: Ti apantate ston k. Xaralampidh o opoios milaei sth dhlwsh toy gia "kybernwsa omada" kai kathgorei gia eqnikh ntroph kai tetoia pragmata; Einai stelexos toy kommatos sas, gi` ayto rwtw.\nREPPAS: Ta stelexh twn kommatwn einai sta kommata, epeidh exoyn diaqesh na prosferoyn, legontas metajy twn allwn tis apoceis toys. An kapoios einai se ena komma kai den exei to dikaiwma na ekfrazei thn apoch toy, einai san na akyrwnei thn paroysia toy stis grammes enos kommatos. Apo thn allh, epi toy sygkekrimenoy zhthmatos, h qesh ths kybernhshs einai safhs, einai sygkekrimenh, den afhnei periqwria paranohsewn kai pisteyoyme oti einai h pio ypeyqynh kai eqnika symferoysa qesh poy mporei na xarajei mia ellhnikh kybernhsh. Oles oi alles kritikes epishmanseis einai adikes, giati an kai sta logia lene oti epidiwkoyn na bohqhsoyn ton koyrdiko lao, egklwbizoyn to orama toy kai ton agwna toy se mikrodieyqethseis, oi opoies den antapokrinontai sta pragmatika symferonta twn idiwn twn Koyrdwn. Kai bebaiws kai sta symferonta ths Elladas.\nMIXAHL: Kyrie Ypoyrge, h kybernhsh odhghqhke se ayth th lysh ths metegkatastashs -proswrinws, opws eipate- twn Koyrdwn oikonomikwn prosfygwn. Hqela na rwthsw an eiste eyxaristhmenos apo ton tropo me ton opoio egine ayth h metegkatastash;\nREPPAS: Panta yparxei periqwrio na kaneis kati me akomh kalytero tropo apo ayton me ton opoio to eprajes. Ayto, omws, den shmainei oti h kybernhsh einai ekteqeimenh se tetoioy eidoys kritikes epi ths diadikasias poy akoloyqhqhke. H kybernhsh perimenei, an oxi ton epainetiko logo, toylaxiston to logo ths symparastashs kai ths katanohshs sthn prospaqeia poy ekane, gia na lysei ena problhma to opoio enoxlhse polloys gia poly kairo, alla oydeis to aggije. Twra poy h kybernhsh to antimetwpizei kai dinei mia diejodo, ayth h prwtoboylia ths antimetwpizetai me arnhtiko tropo. Enw ayto den prepei na ginetai. Den prepei h kybernhsh na krinetai monimws arnhtika apo kekthmenh taxythta kai mono.\nMIXAHL: Exoyme kataggelies toso twn Dhmarxwn ths perioxhs, anejarthta apo th stash poy kratoyn sthn prajh kai eseis qijate emmesws prohgoymenws, exoyme kratiko leitoyrgo, ton Proedro toy Nosokomeioy ekei, poy dhlwnoyn pantelh agnoia gia olh ayth thn istoria kai breqhkan jafnika mprosta se ena gegonos, stis 5 ta jhmerwmata. Giati den qa mporoyse, gia paradeigma, na ginei mia synennohsh mazi toys apo tis armodies Yphresies kai ola ayta na ginoyn omala;\nREPPAS: Oi Koyrdoi, oi opoioi eixan kataskhnwsei sthn plateia Koymoyndoyroy, antimetwpizan problhmata kai dhmioyrgoysan problhmata. Toys Koyrdoys den toys apasxoloyse an htan kapoioi enhmerwmenoi h oxi. Toys apasxoloyse, epiteloys, kapoios na asxolhqei me to qema toys kai na to antimetwpisei. Egw dexomai oti yparxei ena mikro elleimma enhmerwshs. Den prepei, omws, ayto to mikro elleimma enhmerwshs, na ginei to kyrio shmeio, gia to zhthma to opoio syzhtoyme, ayth thn wra kai na peristrafei h syzhthsh gyrw apo ayto to shmeio. Qa prepei na poyme pws einai mia qetikh ejelijh, h prwtoboylia ayth ths kybernhshs.\nMIXAHL: H kybernhsh katalogizei eyqynes sth Dhmotikh Arxh ths Aqhnas giati mexri shmera ta jhmerwmata stasimothta toy problhmatos, h opoia thn anagkase kapoia stigmh na kanei ayto poy ekane shmera;\nREPPAS: Ej oswn gnwrizoyme, den analhfqhke kapoia prwtoboylia apo th Dhmotikh Arxh ths Aqhnas. H kybernhsh, h opoia asxolhqhke me to qema ayto kai sto plaisio twn armodiothtwn ths, phre th sygkekrimenh prwtoboylia. Apo kei kai pera, o kaqenas krinetai apo ayta ta opoia kanei h den kanei.\nKOYROYNIS: Prwtytera milhsate mono gia oikonomikoys prosfyges. H kybernhsh einai sigoyrh oti einai mono oikonomikoi prosfyges sthn plateia Koymoyndoyroy; Epishs, eipate oti h lysh ayth einai proswrinh. Jerete apo twra poy qa pane gia teliko proorismo;\nREPPAS: Prwton, oi politikoi prosfyges prowqoyntai sto Layrio. Den yparxoyn politikoi prosfyges, oi opoioi periferontai stoys dromoys ths Aqhnas. Oikonomikoi prosfyges einai aytoi, oi opoioi briskontai sthn Aqhna kai prospaqoyn, epeidh einai oikonomikoi prosfyges, na ejasfalisoyn enan tropo zwhs, ena piato faghto kaqe mera kai kapoies ajioprepeis synqhkes diabiwshs, pragma to opoio kanoyn oloi oi oikonomikoi prosfyges. Sth sygkekrimenh periptwsh ayto den epiteyxqhke apo thn omada twn Koyrdwn poy eixan kataskhnwsei sthn plateia Koymoyndoyroy kai gi` ayto akribws, h kybernhsh ekrine skopimo na parembei kai na analabei ayth thn prwtoboylia. Den exei apofasistei o telikos xwros proorismoy ayths ths omadas twn Koyrdwn. Aplws, proetoimasthkan ayta ta ktiria, prokeimenoy na einai anekth h diabiwsh stoys xwroys toys kai ekei egkatastaqhkan twra oi Koyrdoi poy mexri protinos eixan kataskhnwsei sthn plateia Koymoyndoyroy.\nOIKONOMIDHS: Epanerxomai sto qema toy Otsalan. H arnhtikh sas qesh afora kai thn periptwsh poy qa prokrinotan telika oti h Ellada qa mporoyse na einai h monadikh xwra poy qa toy edine asylo; Giati opws jerete to qema ayto exei teqei kai apo politikoys kai apo efhmerides sthn arqrografia toys.\nREPPAS: Ayto einai mia ypoqesh ergasias. Kai mia ypoqesh ergasias mporei na kanei kapoios gia opoiodhpote xwro kai gia opoiadhpote xwra. Ayto to opoio exei shmasia einai na breqei lysh se ayto to problhma. H lysh qa breqei me diplwmatika kai politika mesa. Ginontai synennohseis se ayto to epipedo. Elpizoyme na telesforhsoyn to syntomotero dynaton, wste o Koyrdos hgeths na einai asfalhs. Exei mikroterh shmasia poia qa einai h xwra, poios qa einai o xwros kai o topos. Shmasia exei h dieqnhs koinothta na dei katamata mia pragmatikothta, ena problhma poy yparxei. Emeis pisteyoyme, logw twn sxesewn ths Elladas me thn Toyrkia, ths opoias problhma einai to Koyrdiko, oti den einai h kalyterh lysh ayth thn opoia qa epidiwjei, isws, to RKK, anazhtwntas asylo gia ton k. Otsalan sthn Ellada. Giati, akribws, qa topoqethsei ayto to qema sto hdh fortismeno plaisio twn ellhnotoyrkikwn sxesewn kai etsi qa to periorisei kai qa to syrriknwsei, apo ena dieqnes problhma sebasmoy twn anqrwpinwn dikaiwmatwn enos laoy, se ena akomh shmeio mias ellhnotoyrkikhs atzentas. Pisteyoyme, loipon, oti oi xeirismoi poy kanei h ellhnikh kybernhsh einai wrimoi kai ypeyqyno. Anagnwrizoyme oti den mas prepei o rolos toy adiaforoy kai toy parathrhth, gi` ayto akribws symmetexoyme energa se aytes tis diergasies kai qa symbaloyme, wste na epiteyxqei, epiteloys, lysh. Ayto einai poy mas endiaferei. H dhmioyrgia twn entypwsewn, gnwrizete poly kala, oti gi` ayth thn kybernhsh den apotelei kinhtro gia th xarajh kai thn askhsh ths politikhs ths. Th dhmioyrgia twn entypwsewn thn afhnoyme se alloys na thn epidiwkoyn. Den mas afora.\nSOYRMELH: Sxetika me th metafora twn oikonomikwn prosfygwn, qelw na sas rwthsw, ti mesolabhse kai ayto egine toso akariaia shmera xaramata kai malista se ena nosokomeio Loimwdwn Noswn kai apo oti katalaba sto tmhma twn leprwn, twn xansenikwn, giati kati tetoio akoysa; Ti mesolabhse jafnika; Fobaste kapoio xtyphma, kati; Kapoia epirroh; Ti symbainei;\nREPPAS: Aplws, deijame eyaisqhsia, opws allwste htan epibeblhmeno, gia oloys ekeinoys oi opoioi ekanan thn plateia Koymoyndoyroy enan topo, o opoios apajiwne ton politismo mas, th xwra mas. Arketes hmeres xreiasthkan gia na proetoimastoyn ta sygkrothmata opoy qa egkatastaqoyn oi Koyrdoi. Me th qelhsh toys kai meta apo synennohseis mazi toys, ginetai ayth h metakinhsh. Den einai antiqetoi se ayth th metakinhsh kai den exei kamia sxesh o xwros opoy prokeitai na egkatastaqoyn me ayta sta opoia anafereste. Den exei kamia sxesh, doqentos oti sthn Ellada, edw kai arketa xronia, den yparxoyn pleon leproi. Einai palaia ktiria, poly palaia, ta opoia, bebaiws, den einai apo apoch jenodoxeiakhs ypodomhs ta pio idanika. Me thn proetoimasia, omws, poy egine kai tis texnikes diorqwseis kai anakainiseis, ejasfalizoyn anektes, ajioprepeis synqhkes gia toys Koyrdoys poy htan sthn plateia Koymoyndoyroy.\nSOYRMELH: Pantws einai sto nosokomeio Loimwdwn;\nREPPAS: Einai se ekeino to xwro. Ayto to nosokomeio, den exei ayto ton titlo, twra. Einai geniko nosokomeio kai den einai nosokomeio loimwdwn noswn, giati edw kai polla xronia exei ekleicei ayto to fainomeno. Jerete oti kai se alles perioxes yparxoyn sygkrothmata ktiriaka poy xrhsimopoihqhkan gia to sygkekrimeno skopo, prin apo dekaeties. Twra xrhsimopoioyntai gia alloys skopoys. Den qa prepei to fortio toy onomatos na to koybaloyn esaei, enoxopoioymena ta ktiria ayta. Exoyn ginei oles oi beltiwseis, oles oi allages poy xreiazontai, prokeimenoy na dexqoyn kai na filojenhsoyn ajioprepestata toys Koyrdoys metanastes.\nT. MPERMPERAKHS: Kyrie Ypoyrge, tyxon eleysh toy Otsalan edw, den einai qetikh gia thn Ellada. Ayth einai h qesh ths Elladas. Giati, an to pame oti den einai qetiko gia ton idio, einai san h ellhnikh kybernhsh na gnwrizei kalytera apo ton idio ti einai qetiko gi` ayton. Mhpws qelete na eiste ligo pio analytikos s` ayto to qema;\nREPPAS: Exw pei oti h ellhnikh kybernhsh milaei ej onomatos ths ellhnikhs kybernhshs, den milaei ej onomatos toy k. Otsalan. Opws o k. Otsalan milaei, prepei na milaei, ej onomatos toy kai ej onomatos toy RKK. Den milaei ej onomatos ths ellhnikhs kybernhshs kai ths Elladas. H ellhnikh kybernhsh, loipon, exei diatypwsei mia qesh. H qesh ayth prepei na ginei sebasth. Den einai dynaton kapoios na qewrei oti mia allh qesh, san ayth poy exei ekfrasei h ellhnikh kybernhsh, den antapokrinetai sta symferonta ths Elladas h einai mia qesh, h opoia, me ton tropo me ton opoio ekfrazetai, den bohqaei ton agwna twn Koyrdwn. Ayth einai h analysh poy kanei h ellhnikh kybernhsh. Pisteyw oti den bohqaei ston agwna twn Koyrdwn ayth h ejelijh. Einai h analysh poy kanoyme emeis kai diatypwnoyme me kaqe eyqynh ayth th qesh. Ara, loipon, syntrexoyn kai oi dyo shmantikoi paragontes. Kai to symferon twn Koyrdwn kai toy agwna toys kai to symferon ths Elladas.\nT. MPERMPERAKHS: Apodokimasate shmeia ths anakoinwshs toy RKK, alla qa hqela ayto kaq` ayto to sxolio sas gia thn anakoinwsh toy RKK sthn Aqhna, dedomenoy oti exete pei sto parelqon oti den leitoyrgei to RKK sthn Aqhna.\nREPPAS: Den gnwrizw apo poy exei erqei ayth h anakoinwsh. Oti diakinhqhke ayth h anakoinwsh kai eide to fws ths dhmosiothtas sthn Aqhna, einai gegonos. Den yparxei periorismos ston Typo sthn Ellada h th dhmosieysh diaforwn apocewn. Shmasia exei oti den yparxei kentro organwshs h kommatos edw sthn Ellada, to opoio qa synedriazei kai qa exei tetoies leitoyrgies, oi opoies qa odhgoyn sthn ekdosh sygkekrimenwn apofasewn. Mporei na erqoyn keimena apo kaqe gwnia toy planhth kai na diakinhqoyn sthn Ellada.\nKIRMPAKHS: Anaferate oti den ypoblhqhke aithma apo ton k. Otsalan, alla to APE, anefere, basizomeno se phges, oti yparxei piqanothta ayto to aithma na ypoblhqei shmera.\nREPPAS: Mexri ayth thn wra poy syzhtoyme, den exei ginei kati tetoio. Apo kei kai pera, den gnwrizw ti qa akoloyqhsei. Alla, gia na einai safhs h qesh ths Kybernhshs, diatypwsa kai pali ayto to plaisio ths politikhs mas, legontas pws mia tetoia ejelijh den einai epiqymhth apo th dikh mas pleyra.\nPAPADOPOYLOS: Kyrie Ypoyrge, peran apo tis diplwmatikes apanthseis poy dinete, h kybernhsh kai to kratos, h syntetagmenh politeia jerei posoi Koyrdoi politikoi prosfyges briskontai sto Layrio kai poia einai h diakinhsh toys kai pws ginetai ayth; Dhladh o Prwqypoyrgos einai enhmeros gia to posoi politikoi prosfyges yparxoyn ayth th stigmh sto Layrio;\nREPPAS: Oi armodies kratikes yphresies gnwrizoyn me kaqe leptomereia ti ginetai oson afora th diakinhsh metanastwn sthn Ellada, eite aytoi einai politikoi prosfyges, eite einai oikonomikoi prosfyges.\nPAPADOPOYLOS: Edw yparxoyn plhrofories oti sto Layrio th mia mera einai 300, thn allh 500, to brady feygoyn, erxontai kai einai anejelegkth h katastash. Eseis pws to jerete;\nREPPAS: Yparxei yphresia toy kratoys h opoia asxoleitai me ola ayta ta qemata. Parakalw, na mhn mpoyme se leptomereies, alla prepei na sas diabebaiwsw oti o tropos me ton opoion paramenoyn kai diabioyn oi politikoi prosfyges sthn Ellada einai se gnwsh twn kratikwn arxwn.\nKARAKWSTAS: Para to gegonos oti h ypoqesh Otsalan exei apasxolhsei entona th dieqnh koinothta to teleytaio diasthma, sxetika me tis metakinhseis toy, den blepoyme na yparxei eniaia stash stis eyrwpaikes kybernhseis. Den exei sxesh mono me thn Ellada, alla san E. E. qa exei mia eniaia qesh se sxesh me to problhma. Hqela na rwthsw ayto: an ayto problhmatizei th kybernhsh sas na kaleitai h kaqe xwra-melos na antimetwpisei diaforetika to problhma.\nREPPAS: Gia na jeperasoyme ayth thn ysterhsh se sxesh me to deon genesqai, ginontai aytes oi diergasies, prokeimenoy na epiteyxqei mia koinh stash sthn antimetwpish toy qematos. Kai elpizoyme ayto na ginei dynato.\nPARIS: To KYSEA thn prohgoymenh ebdomada den ebgale apofash gia ton typo twn aeroplanwn poy qa paroyme. Egine gnwsto apo to reportaz oti to qema einai oikonomiko. Qa hqela na rwthsw gia ton prosanatolismo ths kybernhshs. O Prwqypoyrgos eipe ston k. Papantwnioy na broyme ta xrhmata ta opoia xreiazontai kai na ikanopoihqei h protash toy Genikoy Epiteleioy h na ftasoyme se mia fqhnoterh lysh me ligotera aeroplana;\nREPPAS: Kata thn teleytaia synedriash toy KYSEA apofasisthke, metajy twn allwn, oi epikefalhs twn ypoyrgeiwn Eqnikhs Oikonomias kai Eqnikhs Amynas na synergastoyn gia thn antimetwpish toy qematos poy paramenei akomh se ekkremothta. H anazhthsh ayths ths lyshs qa ginei sto plaisio twn dapanwn poy exoyme apofasisei gia to ejoplistiko programma -miloyme gia 4 trisekatommyria draxmes- kai sto plaisio toy programmatos dhmosiwn ependysewn toy ypoyrgeioy Eqnikhs Amynas, poy aforoyn kai ejoplismoys. Aytes oi synennohseis qa ginoyn thn erxomenh periodo. Efoson oloklhrwqei o kyklos ayths ths synergasias, to qema qa erqei kai pali sto kybernhtiko organo, prokeimenoy na lhfqoyn oi teleytaies apofaseis.\nPARIS: Mporeite na mas dwsete kapoio xroniko orizonta;\nREPPAS: Den mporw na sas dwsw xroniko orizonta giati h synergasia ayth arxizei twra kai den mporw na gnwrizw poia qa einai h ejelijh ths, o ryqmos me ton opoio qa proxwrhsei.\nPARIS: To qema syzhtietai edw kai dyo xronia. Den yparxei kapoio xroniko orio giati ap' oti katalabainw kai h idia h kybernhsh qelei na teleiwsei to qema.\nREPPAS: Syzhthsame, pragmati, arketo kairo kai katalhjame s' ena ycos pistwsewn poy exoyn egkriqei gia to ejoplistiko programma. Epeidh, proekyce ena qema yperbashs aytoy toy orioy, xreiazetai na ginei o neos kyklos synennohsewn gia thn anazhthsh lysewn. Yparxoyn polla enallaktika senaria. H lysh mporei na ejeyreqei mesa apo diaforoys dromoys. Qa epilegei o kalyteros.\nKOYROYNIS: Politikoi prosfyges yparxoyn kai se alla merh ths Elladas h mono sto Layrio; Kai epeidh eipate oti htan proswrina. Yparxei xronodiagramma. Mexri pote qa meinoyn ekei. Ena mhna, pente mhnes, ena xrono;\nREPPAS: Apanthsa s' ayto. Pantws, einai qema ligwn mhnwn. Oi politikoi prosfyges einai sto Layrio.\nMIXAHL: Kai to Sabbato kai thn Kyriakh akoysame ton Prwqypoyrgo apo tis Serres kai to Kilkis na kathgorei ta kommata ths antipoliteyshs oti ypokinoyn oles tis antidraseis twn giatrwn, twn agrotwn kai genikotera oswn diamartyrontai sthn kybernhtikh politikh. Kata th gnwmh sas, aytos den einai o rolos toys;\nREPPAS: O rolos toys einai na askoyn antipoliteysh sthn kybernhsh proballontas tis dikes toys qeseis. Kai bebaiws, na symparastekontai sta aithmata diaforwn koinwnikwn omadwn, me tetoio tropo, o opoios omws, einai symfwnos me tis arxes kai toys kanones ths Dhmokratias kai me to Nomo. Den yparxei diekdikhsh aithmatos me diadikasies oi opoies einai paranomes h antidhmokratikes. Kai otan yparxei den mporei na tygxanei ths egkrishs apo opoiodhpote politiko komma. O Prwqypoyrgos, prwtistws, anaferqhke sto kybernhtiko ergo kai milhse me sygkekrimena stoixeia, me ariqmoys kai me epixeirhmata. Antiqetws me ton arxhgo ths ajiwmatikhs antipoliteyshs, o opoios periferomenos ana thn Ellada, metaferei tis koinotypes lejeis poy xrhsimopoiei. Epanalambanei ayth th skhnikh parastash sto plaisio ths epikoinwniakhs syntaghs poy exei epilejei, xwris na prosferei tipota to sygkekrimeno sthn koinh gnwmh. Den mas enhmerwnei gia tis apoceis toy kommatos toy epi twn diaforwn qematwn poy apasxoloyn th xwra. Kathgorei kai kataggellei thn kybernhsh, epanalambanontas to idio motibo lejewn kai kinhsewn. Ayta pisteyw deixnoyn oti einai katwterh twn peristasewn h N. D. Ektos an exei programma h N. D., alla, monimws to jexna sthn Aqhna o k. Karamanlhs, otan phgainei sthn eparxia, alla den nomizw na symbainei ayto. Pisteyw oti einai poly megalh h diafora oson afora ton tropo me ton opoio oi politikoi hgetes epilegoyn na emfanizontai sta megala akroathria kai na anaptyssoyn tis qeseis twn kommatwn. Kai ayto einai kati to opoio sas kalw na to krinete kai eseis.\nT. MPERMPERAKHS: Kyrie Ypoyrge, mporeite na mas plhroforhsete an exoyn arxisei h qa arxisoyn shmera h ayrio sth Mosxa oi synomilies poy eixan anakoinwqei, metajy Elladas, Kyproy kai Rwssias gia toys S-300.\nREPPAS: Exoyme pei oti qa episkeftei th Mosxa antiproswpeia. Ginetai ayto ayth thn ebdomada. Profanws, oi syzhthseis den exoyn oloklhrwqei. Pisteyoyme oti qa steftoyn apo epityxia oi synennohseis aytes.\nPARIS: Akoyme kai apo to ejwteriko kai apo edw, oti kapoies xiliades stratiwtwn Agglwn, Amerikanwn kai stratiwtiko yliko qa prowqhqoyn apo th Qessalonikh sth FYROM kai apo ekei sto Kossobo. Qa hqela na rwthsw, yparxei kati to opoio exei bgei apo tis synanthseis twn Albanwn, twn Kossobarwn kai twn Serbwn poy na dikaiologei ayth thn kinhsh; Jerei h kybernhsh kati tetoio, efoson einai kai h amesa emplekomenh me thn dieykolynsh poy qa kanei sto NATO. Yparxei ayto to "prasino fws" gia na ginoyn aytes oi kinhseis;\nREPPAS: To "prasino fws" to exei dwsei o Organismos gia thn Asfaleia kai th Staqerothta sthn Eyrwph, o gnwstos OASE, me apofash poy exei labei. Apo ekei kai pera sto plaisio twn kinhsewn twn dynamewn toy NATO, h Ellada prosferei ayth th dieykolynsh, xwris na symmetexoyme emeis me dika mas strateymata. Exoyme dhlwsei oti qa laboyme meros stis epixeirhseis, oi opoies exoyn stoxo ton apegklwbismo, apo th sygkekrimenh perioxh, politwn poy qeloyn na thn egkataleicoyn. Kai bebaiws, qa eimaste parontes ekei, efoson oles oi pleyres epiqymoyn thn paroysia mas. Apo kei kai pera, oi diplwmatikes syzhthseis oi opoies ginontai sth Gallia, elpizoyme na oloklhrwqoyn, giati den mporei na makrynei aytos o dialogos epi poly, doqentos oti yparxei krish. Yparxei mia estia h opoia einai energh. Pisteyoyme oti oles oi pleyres qa deijoyn katanohsh kai to syntomotero dynato h syzhthsh ayth qa oloklhrwqei me sygkekrimenh symfwnia, h opoia qa epanaferei thn hremia sthn taragmenh ayth perioxh.\nKARAKWSTA: Qa hqela na rwthsw an einai enhmerwmenh h kybernhsh gia thn poreia aytwn twn synomiliwn;\nREPPAS: Bebaiws einai enhmerwmenh. Gnwrizete oti o anaplhrwths ypoyrgos Ejwterikwn k. Papandreoy symmeteixe se diaskech poy sygkalese o proedreywn ypoyrgos Ejwterikwn ths Germanias k. Fiser. H Ellada, asfalws, parakoloyqei apo poly konta tis ejelijeis, doqentos oti einai apo tis prwtes xwres poy exei diatypwsei ena analytiko plaisio gia thn antimetwpish ths krishs sto Kossyfopedio.\nkyber2html v1.05c run on Monday, 15 February 1999 - 15:04:55 UTC


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url: =Greek Government Press Briefing, 01-06-25\nAqhna, 25 Ioynioy 2001\nOpws gnwrizete thn Tetarth, stis 7 to apogeyma, synedriazei to Ektelestiko Grafeio toy PASOK kai thn Pempth, stis 10 to prwi, to Ypoyrgiko Symboylio qa asxolhqei me to problhma twn narkwtikwn kai toy alkoolismoy. Gia to megalo ayto koinwniko qema o Prwqypoyrgos qa proedreysei to prwi ths Tetarths se eyreia syskech, sthn opoia qa paroyn meros polloi synarmodioi ypoyrgoi kai alloi paragontes.\nSTAMATOPOYLOS: Giati den phge kanenas kybernhtikos paragontas sthn tafh twn leicanwn twn dyo Ellhnwn ths ELDYK poy egine xqes;\nREPPAS: Den gnwrizw pws ekproswphqhkan oi armodies yphresies. Pisteyw oti h ekproswphsh qa htan tetoia, wste na apodoqei h deoysa timh. Den prepei na dhmioyrgeitai opoiodhpote problhma gyrw apo to qema ayto kai sas parakalw mh bgazete tetoia symperasmata gia dhqen elleich timhs kai sebasmoy pros aytoys toys hrwikoys nekroys.\nSTAMATOPOYLOS: Afoy den phge kaneis, ayto den shmainei elleich timhs;\nREPPAS: Ayth einai h dikh sas apoch.\nSTAMATOPOYLOS: Phge kanenas;\nREPPAS: Epanalambanw oti se aytes tis periptwseis yparxei h symmetoxh ekeinh poy apodeiknyei thn anagnwrish ths ofeilomenhs timhs.\nSTAMATOPOYLOS: Shmera, o Prwqypoyrgos den exei kapoia synanthsh, kapoia syskech;\nREPPAS: Den exei.\nSTAMATOPOYLOS: Einai ektos Aqhnwn;\nREPPAS: Nai, einai ektos Aqhnwn.\nDHMOSIOGRAFOS: Qa hqela ena geniko sxolio gia tis ekloges sthn Albania. Ektimate oti h ellhnikh meionothta askhse ayth th fora aproskopta to eklogiko ths dikaiwma h oxi;\nREPPAS: Oi ekloges se mia xwra apoteloyn kai krithrio gia to poso wrimh einai h dhmokratia sth xwra ayth. Den exoyme akomh thn telikh eikona gia ta apotelesmata twn eklogwn sth geitonikh xwra. Pisteyoyme oti kapoies dysleitoyrgies h paratypies h kai epeisodia, ta opoia anaferoyn oi parathrhtes oti exoyn ginei, den qa ephreasoyn to teliko apotelesma. Pisteyoyme oti h meionothta eixe th dynatothta na labei meros se aytes tis ekloges katw apo synqhkes poy htan oi kalyteres, se sxesh me to parelqon. Tis epomenes hmeres oloi qa ektimhsoyn kai tis synqhkes diejagwghs twn eklogwn kai qa bgaloyme to teliko symperasma. Pisteyw, omws, oti to teliko apotelesma qa katagrafei th boylhsh toy albanikoy laoy.\nMPOTWNHS: Twra poy o Prwqypoyrgos brisketai kai ektos Aqhnwn, mhpws etoimasei kai ton katalogo toy neoy ypoyrgikoy symboylioy;\nREPPAS: Exoyme apanthsei se ayta. Den tiqetai tetoio qema.\nGARGALAKOS: Qa hqela na sas rwthsw, epeidh yparxei mia sygxysh, o Prwqypoyrgos se poia grammh kineitai enocei synedrioy; Kineitai sth grammh toy "oloi mazi", toy jekaqarismatos twn politikwn h toy jekaqarismatos logariasmwn me aytoys poy bazoyn empodia sthn kybernhtikh politikh;\nREPPAS: O Prwqypoyrgos kineitai sto plaisio ths dhlwshs poy ekane amesws meta to telos ths synedriashs toy Ektelestikoy Grafeioy kai thn omofwnh apofash poy elhfqh sto organo ayto. To qema toy synedrioy einai kommatiko. To synedrio ayto qa einai synedrio dhmioyrgikhs synqeshs twn apocewn, aposafhnishs ths politikhs poreias ths kybernhshs, adiamfisbhthths yposthrijhs ths kybernhshs kai twn politikwn poy qa apofasistoyn sto synedrio stis leptomereies toys. Kai, bebaiws, qa einai ena synedrio nikhforas prooptikhs.\nI. XASAPOPOYLOS: Enoxlhqhke o Prwqypoyrgos apo ta synqhmata poy akoysthkan sto A@ Nekrotafeio;\nREPPAS: Den nomizw oti enoxleitai kapoios otan diapistwnetai oti mikres omades diatypwnoyn tis apoceis toys. Kaqenas mporei na diatypwnei eleyqera tis apoceis toy, akomh kai me ton pio akraio tropo, pantote, bebaiws, sto plaisio ths nomimothtas. Ayta ta oria den ta yperebh kapoios, wste na mporoyme na milame gia kati allo. Einai mia ekfrash apocewn. Alla, qa moy epitrecete na pw, symplhrwnontas thn apanthsh, oti polla fainomena, polla shmeia yparxoyn poy deixnoyn poso orqh htan ayth h omofwnh apofash toy E.G.\nMOYRTZHS: Olos o Typos, opoiasdhpote apoxrwshs, epimenei oti o Prwqypoyrgos sth synedriash toy E.G. apeilhse me paraithsh kai oti o k. Laliwths toy apanthse pws h paraithsh toy Prwqypoyrgoy den ypoballetai sto E.G., alla ston Proedro ths Dhmokratias.\nREPPAS: Gia ta eswterika ths synedriashs toy E.G. exoyme milhsei arketa. Den prokeitai na pw tipota parapanw, den einai allwste o katallhlos xwros edw. Ayto to opoio, omws, ypenqymizw einai ayto poy eipe me th dhlwsh toy kai o Prwqypoyrgos, poy einai kai h qesh toy E.G., h qesh olwn mas sto PASOK: H kybernhsh exei entolh tetraetias. Ekloges qa ginoyn to 2004.\nSTAMATOPOYLOS: Den enoxlhqhke o Prwqypoyrgos oyte apo to synqhma poy ton elege ``ekbiasth'';\nREPPAS: Apanthsa, k. Stamatopoyle, se erwthsh synadelfoy sas.\nSTAMATOPOYLOS: Oyte apo ayto to synqhma...;\nREPPAS: Ma, se ayto to synqhma anaferotan o synadelfos poy ekane ayth thn erwthsh. Mhn epanalambanete kati poy exei rwthsei kapoios allos.\nKOYIN: H kybernhsh fetos qa paei diakopes;\nREPPAS: H kybernhsh, gnwrizete oti me pio entatiko ryqmo, se sxesh me to prosfato parelqon, qa synexisei thn prospaqeia ths. Ayth htan allwste h qesh poy ejefrase kai o Prwqypoyrgos. Ayth thn prospaqeia qa kanoyme, giati h eyryqmh leitoyrgia ths kybernhshs, qa bohqhsei sthn organwsh enos kaloy Synedrioy kai ena kalo Synedrio qa bohqhsei metepeita thn akomh kalyterh poreia ths kybernhshs.\nARGYROS: Enocei ths Kentrikhs Epitrophs qa exei o Prwqypoyrgos synanthsh me ta koryfaia stelexh, ena neo kyklo epafwn;\nREPPAS: Sto programma toy Prwqypoyrgoy den problepetai kati tetoio.\nI. KAMPOYRAKHS: Eipate prohgoymenws oti polla shmeia einai ayta poy\ndeixnoyn oti h omofwnh apofash toy E.G. htan swsth. Mporeite endeiktika na mas anaferetai kapoia shmeia h se poia shmeia anafereste eseis;\nREPPAS: Sto oti o Prwqypoyrgos milhse gia amfisbhthsh ths politikhs nomimopoihshs ths kybernhshs. Kai, pragmati, me polloys tropoys, apo mikres omades kommatikwn stelexwn apodeiknyetai oti yparxei ayth h politikh amfisbhthsh. Ara, einai orqh h ektimhsh poy ekanan o Prwqypoyrgos kai to E.G. Einai orqh h epilogh poy ekanan odhgoymenoi se ayth thn apofash.\nSABBA: Hqela na rwthsw sxetika me thn anabolh toy tajidioy sthn Kina: Qewreite oti h deyterh fora poy anaballetai ena tajidi se mia toso shmantikh xwra, den plhttei tis diplwmatikes mas sxeseis me mia toso megalh xwra kai th stigmh poy ayth h xwra paizei shmantiko rolo sta Balkania, qeloyme na anoijoyme thn agora ayth...\nREPPAS: Apanthsa se sxetikh erwthsh thn prohgoymenh ebdomada. Eipa, metajy twn allwn, oti epiqymoyme na synexisoyme na diathroyme se aristo epipedo tis sxeseis mas me th megalh ayth xwra poy einai kai monimo melos toy Symboylioy Asfaleias toy OHE. Anefera, epishs, th qesh toy ypoyrgeioy Ejwterikwn ths Kinas. H Kina katanoei kai anagnwrizei toys logoys gia toys opoioys odhghqhkame se ayth thn anabolh ths epishmhs episkechs toy Prwqypoyrgoy. Einai kalodexoymenos o Prwqypoyrgos ths xwras mas kai h Kina, opws ki emeis, apo th dikh ths pleyra ananewnei to endiaferon ths na synexisoyme tis koines prospaqeies gia na beltiwsoyme akomh perissotero tis hdh poly kales sxeseis mas.\nMPOYRDARAS: Eipate prohgoymenws oti apo mikres omades amfisbhteitai h kybernhtikh politikh, oi epiloges toy Prwqypoyrgoy. Synista logo, ena xrono meta tis ekloges, opoy eixe kerdisei o k. Shmiths, to PASOK, h amfisbhthsh apo mikres mono omades na odhgei se synedrio kai malista se mia diadikasia eswstrefeias, anapofeykta;\nREPPAS: Prwta ap` ola einai safes -to dhlwsa allwste- oti h kybernhsh exei th syntagmatikh kai dhmokratikh nomimopoihsh na synexisei thn poreia ths. To qema ths politikhs amfisbhthshs tiqetai. Kai to qema ths politikhs amfisbhthshs mporei na to antimetwpisei h hgesia toy Kinhmatos sto pedio poy exei armodiothta na analabei prwtoboylies. H politikh amfisbhthsh ths kybernhshs mporei na prokyptei apo th qesh twn kommatwn ths antipoliteyshs h apo alloys koinwnikoys foreis. Ayto, bebaiws, antimetwpizetai sto plaisio ths politikhs antiparaqeshs. Alla, h politikh amfisbhthsh entos twn oriwn ths kybernhshs kai toy Kinhmatos prepei na antimetwpistei me prwtoboylies se ayto to pedio. Mia tetoia prwtoboylia apotelei kai h apofash gia thn organwsh toy Synedrioy ton erxomeno Oktwbrio.\nANTYPAS: Ti prosdokate na ginoyn aytes oi mikres omades; An, dhladh, to Synedrio parei mia diaforetikh apofash, aytoi oi anqrwpoi ti qa ginoyn;\nREPPAS: Pisteyw oti einai mia dhmokratikh epilogh to na syzhthqoyn ola ayta ta qemata se ekeino to swma poy exei thn eyryterh synqesh, poy ekproswpei th bash ths kybernhtikhs paratajhs. To swma ayto einai to Synedrio. Oi apofaseis toy qa desmeyoyn oloys.\nANTYPAS: Aytes oi apoceis isws kapote ekfrazontan sto PASOK apo poly perissoteroys. Twra ekfrazontai apo mikres omades, opws eipate eseis...\nREPPAS: Apanthsa, milwntas gia mikres ariqmhtika omades se sygkekrimenh erwthsh toy k. Xasapopoyloy.\nANTYPAS: Aytes oi omades, an meiochfhsoyn sto Synedrio, kai bgei o Prwqypoyrgos me thn pleiochfoysa apoch, qa prepei na stamathsoyn na milane;\nREPPAS: Prwta ap` ola, yperaspisthka molis prin to dikaiwma ths eleyqerias ths ekfrashs. Einai dynato na exoyme mia tetoia qesh; To teleiws antiqeto symbainei. Apo ekei kai pera, sto Synedrio einai mia poly kalh eykairia na aposafhnistoyn ola ekeina ta politika zhthmata epi twn opoiwn yparxoyn diistamenes apoceis. Kaqenas, bebaiws, exei to dikaiwma na parameinei staqeros stis apoceis toy.\nIWANNOY: Qelw na rwthsw, pws eide h kybernhsh to sxolio toy Arxiepiskopoy xqes, otan rwthqhke an qa yparjei synanthsh toy Prwqypoyrgoy me thn Ekklhsia gia to qema twn taytothtwn. Eipe oti o Prwqypoyrgos twra exei skotoyres ...\nREPPAS: H kybernhsh kai o Prwqypoyrgos exoyn mia jekaqarh politikh qesh gia to qema ayto. Se ayth th qesh paramenoyme.\nKWSTANTHS: Eipate oti enas apo toys tropoys poy antimetwpise o Prwqypoyrgos ayth thn amfisbhthsh ths politikhs nomimopoihshs ths kybernhshs, einai to Synedrio. Mhpws skeftetai na antimetwpisei kai sto plaisio ths Boylhs ayth thn amfisbhthsh; Giati, zhta th nomimopoihsh apo to komma kai oxi apo ekei poy enas Prwqypoyrgos ofeilei na th zhthsei;\nREPPAS: Isxyoyn oi apanthseis poy edwsa se synafeis erwthseis, molis prin. H kybernhsh exei entolh 4etias. Qa antapokriqei se ayth thn entolh. Oi ekloges qa ginoyn to 2004. Den tiqetai, loipon, qema san ayto to opoio eseis, emmesws me thn erwthsh sas, yponoeite kai qetete.\nKOTTAKHS: Dhlwsate to Sabbato sto "Flash" oti mhdenizetai o politikos xronos me to Synedrio kai to apotelesma toy einai san na eimaste meta apo ekloges. To erwthma moy einai to ejhs: H etymhgoria 4,5-5 xiliadwn synedrwn, isodynamei me th laikh etymhgoria; Kai an nai, poio einai to pososto me to opoio qa einai ikanopoihmenos o Proedros toy PASOK;\nREPPAS: Prwta apo ola, qa moy epitrecete na apantw apo th qesh ayth, se erwthseis sas ws Kybernhtikos Ekproswpos. Den qa prepei na sygxeoyme tis apoceis poy diatypwnw sto plaisio synenteyjewn, me tis qeseis tis opoies diatypwnw edw, para to oti bebaiws den einai diaforetikes. Sas lew, loipon, oti to Synedrio -ena poly kalo kai epityxhmeno Synedrio, gia to opoio bebaiws prepei na doylecoyme- qa einai h arxh mias neas poreias kai gia thn kybernhsh mas. Jekiname, loipon, kai pali, wste oloklhrwnontas to ergo mas sto telos ayths ths 4etoys qhteias mas, na kerdisoyme thn empistosynh ths pleiochfias toy ellhnikoy laoy.\nPAPPA: Qa hqela na rwthsw, ean problhmatizei thn kybernhsh h synexizomenh eleyqerh ptwsh toy Xrhmatisthrioy kai an o problhmatismos aytos einai pros thn kateyqynsh kapoiwn allagwn.\nREPPAS: Kanena sxolio gia th leitoyrgia toy Xrhmatisthrioy.\nI. XASAPOPOYLOS: Shmera to prwi, o k. Papantwnioy, se ena radiofwniko staqmo, eipe oti h oikonomikh politikh poy akoloyqhse h kybernhsh ta teleytaia xronia htan poly swsth kai den prepei na janagyrisoyme se politikes laikismoy, opws zhta h allh pleyra. Dhladh, oi pleyres toy PASOK poy zhtoyn allagh sthn oikonomikh politikh laikizoyn;\nREPPAS: Oloi anagnwrizoyn, entos kai ektos Elladas, oti einai orqh h oikonomikh politikh poy askhse h kybernhsh ta teleytaia xronia. Ta epiteygmata ths ellhnikhs oikonomias exoyn anagnwristei. H Ellada brisketai shmera stis isxyres oikonomies toy planhth. Ayto deixnei, me ton kalytero tropo, oti petyxame toys stoxoys poy exoyme qesei pros ofelos ths xwras kai twn politwn. Den yparxei kalyterh apodeijh apo to oti exoyme petyxei kata thn askhsh ths oikonomikhs politikhs mas, afoy h Ellada brisketai shmera se mia qesh poy pote den eixe sto parelqon.\nEYSTAQIOY: Eixe kapoia epikoinwnia o Prwqypoyrgos, thlefwnikh h proswpikh, me kapoioys mexri ayth thn wra;\nREPPAS: Den gnwrizw me poioys exei epikoinwnhsei thlefwnikws o Prwqypoyrgos. Egw exw epikoinwnhsei me ton Prwqypoyrgo kai to Sabbatokyriako kai meta. Ti shmainei ayto; Epikoinwnies thlefwnikes asfalws kai exei.\nMOYRTZHS: Ayth h elaxisth meiochfia exei antanaklastika sthn kybernhsh;\nREPPAS: H kybernhsh einai dhmokratika sygkrothmenh. O Prwqypoyrgos exei epilejei to sxhma ayto kai exei thn armodiothta, kaqe fora, na orizei to kybernhtiko sxhma. Apo ekei kai pera, to Synedrio mas qa syzhthsei gia tis politikes poy prepei na akoloyqhsoyme sto plaisio ths laikhs entolhs. Me thn oloklhrwsh toy Synedrioy, o Prwqypoyrgos, lambanontas panta ypoch toy tis apofaseis toy Synedrioy, qa labei tis dikes toy apofaseis.\nkyber2html v1.05c run on Monday, 25 June 2001 - 13:05:10 UTC