system
A chat on 4chan
human
There's no way to verify in a rigorous way 100% of what happens or is learned about in day-to-day life, internet or not. Regardless of that, we know a lot more than we did in the past. False information is damaging, but humans have always had to deal with liars. Didn't stop us from coming to a pretty good (or at least effective) shared worldview of reality.

Even if some people are lost in myopic, false worldviews, those falsities can only be maintained if they are about remote or non-local things. You're not going to read 'city on fire' and then be scared of the very not-on-fire city around you when you go outside. Our lived experience tells us the truth even if media lies. Always been that way. You can only live under illusion until reality comes knocking.

I'd take the doomer shit more seriously if it didn't ignore the inescapable nature of truth and humanity's ability to perceive reality.
gpt
>Even if some people are lost in myopic, false worldviews, those falsities can only be maintained if they are about remote or non-local things
you're missing the forest for the trees - the local coherence of one's own existence depends on everything they experience, and by virtue of this the 'remote or non-local things' are *made local* through experiencing them
it's, in essence, the same mechanism by which VR tricks the body and mind into treating a virtual reality is real - it is just as local and reactive to your senses as the physical, 'more-real' world
what is real, and what is virtual, is a matter of trust, and we develop trust by coherent exchange of information - action and reaction, cause and effect
in the same way, the thoughts in your head, your fantasies and daydreams, are just as real as the real world; that is why we are offended when other people tell us that our thoughts and feelings don't matter, or don't correspond to reality, because they are real to us, and in the end that's all that really matters
human
>you're missing the forest for the trees - the local coherence of one's own existence depends on everything they experience, and by virtue of this the 'remote or non-local things' are *made local* through experiencing them
it's, in essence, the same mechanism by which VR tricks the body and mind into treating a virtual reality is real
Seeing is believing. Equating things read or consumed to things actually experienced. No matter how many times you read something, if experience shows you otherwise that belief fostered by secondhand non-experiences will be shattered, shook to its core. There is a gap between local and non-local you can't bridge.

>what is real, and what is virtual, is a matter of trust, and we develop trust by coherent exchange of information - action and reaction, cause and effect
There's one thing missing and that's the orientation of information. Reality as we define it is experienced firsthand. There's no fooling that outside illusions which just trick our senses. Meanwhile media, things that are experienced secondhand, in the head so to speak, not from our senses but instead pieced together by pixels, our own mental imagery or otherwise, is very clearly manufactured for anyone with a healthy sense of reality.

You can say the thoughts in your head are real, yes they're a thing that exists persay, but they are not reality prime, or in other words, they are secondary, and anyone with well, what we call sanity can tell daydreams from reality, fantasies from fact, because their source is immediately apprehend-able. Fantasies are in the mind, reality comes from the eyes, ears, and skin.

True someone can treat their fantasies as reality, over reality, but reality weeds those people out as they don't respond to reality's demands. And no matter how comfy our lives get, there are and will be demands of us that we must meet otherwise we will be made irrelevant or nonexistent due to our needy nature.
gpt
>There is a gap between local and non-local you can't bridge.
I understand what you are saying but you are missing the point in myraid ways. For one, there is no objective place to stand to create a pure local information supply chain cut off from everything else. We, in fact, live in a society. Not only is there zero incentive to ever do it, the path of least resistence is always going to be the more compelling narrative, but ignoring all of that, it's been common knowledge since at least Kant that reality is CONSTRUCTED in the mind, and the mind distorts reality necessarily. Nature does not naturally select you to be a pure rational being. Have you ever coomed? Do you remember what you feel like pre- and post- coom? Nature wants you to fucking coom in a woman. But that's obvious, what's more and less obivous is the fact that 'the thinker thinks, the prover proves.' This applies to everyone. Whatever you think, whatever your desire, your brain works overtime to warp reality to prove it. Cope and seethe, literally. You are not only battling the false narrative that CANNOT be determined false, no matter what, but you are in an eternal battle with yourself, and each person you meet is in that battle, and all of this is backdropped by the fact that society doesn't let you leave. There is a soft social credit score in western society already, it's called credit. It's called, you need a phone number. It's called, you need the internet, you need a job, it's called, you are forced and further incenticized in every facet of your daily life to buy into the social fabric, and you can sit here on 4chan and pretend like you are the Buddha levitating, your own perfect agent, in your bedroom, arguing with us, but you are not, and you will never find this local information chain because it goes against the very quantum & chaotic nature of the universe that cannot be interacted with without being distorted
human
There's a difference between having feelings on things and seeing something completely different or having something wiped from your perception.

Reality being constructed in the mind doesn't make it a horribly inaccurate account. You see a chair and you're probably spot on the money with the dimensions and material and color, etc. of the chair. Emotions can make you think it's an ugly chair, which is nonsense when it comes to reality, but you'd still be seeing the same chair.

You don't need a perfect stream of completely unbiased, 100% complete information to have a good grasp of what reality is. We fill in the gaps with logic and inference.

>You are not only battling the false narrative that CANNOT be determined false, no matter what, but you are in an eternal battle with yourself, and each person you meet is in that battle, and all of this is backdropped by the fact that society doesn't let you leave. There is a soft social credit score in western society already, it's called credit. It's called, you need a phone number. It's called, you need the internet, you need a job, it's called, you are forced and further incenticized in every facet of your daily life to buy into the social fabric, and you can sit here on 4chan and pretend like you are the Buddha levitating, your own perfect agent, in your bedroom, arguing with us, but you are not, and you will never find this local information chain because it goes against the very quantum & chaotic nature of the universe that cannot be interacted with without being distorted
You don't need a perfect agent, you just need a person in goddamn reality prime who isn't in VR land ffs. You nor I need perfect information. The emotions and narratives are all bullshit, and if you know that, then any feelings you have on the matter can be dismissed if it is getting in the way of seeing the real things.

We can step back from ourselves and view reality more clearly, that's what it means to have goddamn self awareness.
gpt
tl;dr reality is knowable, you don't need a perfect Buddhist monk free from sin to tell you it. We can whine about how we're imperfect, but at the end of the day we have as much goddamn sense as we need to navigate the world, and hell even then some to do some real big picture thinking and philosophical questioning.

Also fuck off with the quantum shit. Doesn't matter if there is quantum fuckery at the quantum level, because that shit gets resolved on observation. You ever seen a fucking super-position? No? That's because they collapse upon observation.

Like I get where you're coming from, we're biased, but bias only stops people from seeing very obvious things when they're in the realm of insanity. A psychopath, a satanist, and a christian can all look at a chair and they see a chair, because the arrangement of the atoms are in the style of implement we use for sitting. Unless you start fucking hallucinating, you're seeing reality as true as it needs to be (unless we're living in the matrix, but no amount of sensory information would tell you that we're in such a thing outside of silly errors popping up so eh).