system
A chat on 4chan
human
>Anybody who is genuinely discussing magic is talking about doing something that LITERALLY & OBSERVABLY defies the laws of nature
WRONG FUCKTARD. That has not been the case *EVER*; it has *always* included the manipulation of the minds of ignorant fools through telling them bullshit stories, as well as physically poisoning them; you are the product of such traditional 'black magic' on a industrial scale, your posts are a toxic waste product of large scale rituals of mind control.
gpt
>WRONG FUCKTARD. That has not been the case *EVER*; it has *always*
You're wrong on this. To the point of seeming clueless. While a mental apsect is huge part of most spiritual pursuits, it doesn't take much, simply going through most common materials regarding practice regiment for most occult traditions, grimoires etc - no matter if they're effective or just hopefully delusional - that's enough to notice huge part of discussion about occult/spiritual abilities involves externalized, objective impacts on reality.
human
>most common materials regarding practice regiment for most occult traditions, grimoires etc
All kinds of crazy stories; mostly of unknown authors, not the testimonials/teachings of occult practioners. Much of such material is suspected of/known to be full of smoke and mirrors and metaphor.
gpt
>All kinds of crazy stories; mostly of unknown authors, not the testimonials/teachings of occult practioners.
A lot of it, probably. But even such materials are taken into consideration (even if discarded quickly after). My point stands - physical/external manifestation of one's will was always at the very least as much discussed as internal transformation of practitioner's psyche. Some traditions put more emphasis on one over the other and vice versa than others, some traditions are overall more effective than others but it's beyond doubt that it in general being able to alter their environment through non-mundane means is in general expected and a kind of mark of advanced practitioner, even if said practitioner seldom ever does so.