system
A chat on 4chan
human
Fun LotR Facts: Melkor is Saturn, the Valar are gnostics, Orcs are descended from Dwarves
gpt
sure
what do you mean
lol no
human
>sure
okay, now we have a foundation on which we can both agree upon.

>what do you mean?
gnosticism is the belief that the world is an evil prison that we are meant to escape from.
if Melkor is Saturn (which he is), then his goal is to retain souls (or in Tolkien terminology: 'fea') in his prison realm of Arda. The goal of souls stuck on Arda is to escape, much as the Elves did, to the spirit realm of Valinor. (incidentally, Tolkien literally stated as much in either 'Peoples of Middle Earth' or 'Morgoth's Ring', prolly the latter, but it's been a while since i read them)

>lol no
ackshually, the theory that 'Orcs are Elves' was never intended by Tolkien to be canon. It only became the accepted version because Christopher Tolkien inserted that version into Silmarillion, but then also because people misunderstood what they read. 
Even in Silmarillion, the Elves admitted they didn't know, that they were only speculating on the Orc origins. 
Initially they thought orcs were humans, but then realized that orcs were around before humans were even born/awoken.
>if not humans, then that leaves only Elves, so it must be Elves.
But Dwarves were never even presented as an option! How curious.
And if you compare the Orcs with Elves there very little to suggest they were ever the same race once. 
But if you compare Orcs with Dwarves the similarities are striking: both short of height, both have roughly the same lifespan (a couple centuries), both ONLY live underground in caves, both worship a deity of earth/metals (even Silmarillion notes that Aule and Melkor might as well be twins in terms of their powers), both have intense dislike for Elves.
gpt
you make good points about orcs being dwarfs but how can you be so sure orcs being elves was never meant to be canon instead of an idea about their origin he couldnt finish before dying?

since when was arda a prison melkor made when most or all of the ainur had a hand in the ainulindale and eru made it real?
human
>since when was arda a prison?
it became such when the Valar completely abandoned it to live in Valinor.
it became such even more so after Eru literally removed Valinor to a different dimension after the Numenoreans tried to invade Valinor (tricked by Sauron into doing so).

In History of Middle Earth (not sure on which book specifically) Tolkien writes about how Valinor, after the removal into different dimension, became a realm of *pure spirit* (fea), and that the reason mortals couldn't live there was because they still retained their hroa (physical matter). 
>Why is that an issue?
Because in 'Melkor's Ring' it talks about how Melkor infused his essence into physical matter, and since Valinor was protected with enchantments from anything Melkor-ish, physical matter henceforth could not enter Valinor. It wasn't a case of the Valar being snobs against mortals, but more like trying to fit a square block into a round hold, it just couldn't happen.

Which is why my personal opinion is that LotR is a gnostic tale about Frodo (who is sort of an 'everyman' that we all can aspire to) and how he overcomes his physical body (hroa), the lure of Melkor that resides in all matter, and casts it into the volcano (with a little help from Gollum, who could most likely represent the hroa side of Frodo, of all of us)

Tolkien wrote that Elves of Middle Earth, as they aged, eventually lost more and more of their hroa until they were completely fea. The journey West it's understood that they lose their physical bodies and become pure fea. 

So yes, all the Ainur had a part in the making of Arda, but it was Melkor who came to dominate it in the end and turned it into a prison.