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Mama Deb
Mama Deb [userpic]

Last night, my husband and I went to see someone whom he's tangled with online. She's the daughter of a well known rabbi; she and her husband do outreach work; she writes and well. She's a teacher.

And she's a proselytizing conservative. That's small "c", meaning the politics, not capital C, meaning the liberal to moderal movement in Judaism.

We had a fairly pleasant chat last night, and I tried to keep far away from politics as she knows we're pretty much liberal Democrats with an odd conservative spot or two, and maybe a touch of libertarianism here and there.

And I happened to mention at the end that right now, I don't really know who I support in the current field of Democrats, which is true. I don't. So she told me not to vote, or to vote for someone with no chance.

She supports the Shrub. Did I say anything? No. Did I tell her not to vote? No, and she lives in Florida, which can go in either direction.

She's also one of those women who are antifeminist, except that they do things they wouldn't be doing if it weren't *for* feminism.

And I told her that, and she just ranted about day care and the army. *Sigh*.



I know plenty of women like that. It's sad that they choose to believe feminism is some ultra leftist fringe movement that has nothing to do with them.

Me too, and perfectly nice men who are scared of feminism. The sad thing is, that's pretty much what the media tells people these days. Feminism = Andrea Dworkin

It's the difference between status feminism and gender feminism. Status feminism, old-fashioned equal-rights feminism, has pretty much done its work. The feminist movement now is almost entirely gender feminists. Thus the seeming paradox isn't one.

Um, no offense but it hasn't done it's work when women are still paid 70 cents per every man dollar.

Not for the same jobs, when you figure in experience, uninterrupted work time, and so on.

I think that the system needs to be streamlined so that people can raise families and have jobs, but that's not a feminist issue, as it's as much benefit to give men time for their families as it is to give women time for their jobs. That's just sort of tweaking and fixing a problem in a post-feminist world.

Exactly. Thirty years ago, I would have been a feminist (if I weren't, you know, three years old ;)). Now?

Well, I identified myself as a feminist when I first went to undergraduate school, until I was told that being a feminist meant "rejecting male modes of thought" (like, you know, using logic instead of emotion in an academic argument--which was very difficult since they identified my own natural way of thinking as "male," so I would have had to fake a way of thinking to be considered female), turning my back on "patriarchal religion," and treating all men as potential rapists rather than as fellow travelers on the Road.

I told them where to get off.

If anyone gives me guff about "You can't do such and such because you're a woman," believe me, I don't put up with it. No one has ever tried to say such a thing to me (maybe they saw the daggers getting ready to pop out of my eyes), but if they did, I'd be out of there very fast. But people who just believe for themselves that there are different realms for men and women? Shrug. People can believe what they want, as long as they don't try to fence me in about it. I believe in women's equality, not in women's superiority, hence, I an Egalitarian or an Equalist now. I won't touch feminism with a ten foot pole.

And it drives me nuts when people talk about girls getting the short end of the stick in school. Girls are treated like princesses in school. Boys, on the other hand... well, I had a teacher come to me after a tour one day and said, in a tone of horrified apology, "Oh, I'm so sorry. I didn't realize when we split the class up that you wound up stuck with all the boys." It's probably a good thing I was too dumbfounded by that to open my mouth.

(no subject) - (Anonymous)

A woman could be elected now, if a good one would run on a sensible platform. So far, a good candidate hasn't appeared. Elizabeth Dole had a chance, but the field was too crowded. I expect a serious female candidate in 2008 (maybe Hillary Clinton), and if she doesn't win that year, then almost certainly within the next couple of elections. I think the first female candidate to win is likely to be a Republican, since there won't be the suspicion of left wing feminism attached.

I also think that in 2008, both major parties will have a woman on the ticket in either the first or second spot.

I can't remember which blog I read it on, but the suggestion was that whenever a conservative says something wacky, not to engage them (which you didn't), but just do the Iowa Dean Scream.

I'm dying to try this out. YEEEAAAAARRRRRRRGGGGG!


Don't you want to strangle some people, or at least poison their food? Nothing that will kill them, just lay them up a few days so that they can really see how the american health care system works (or doesn't, as the case may be).


DIdn't you ever hear the proverb about teaching a pig to sing?

HAHAH the shrub. i'm not sure i'm going to be voting either

Gitty, you have to vote. You can even vote for Bush if you believe he should remain president, or leave that part off and vote only for congress, senate and local if you really can't decide. But vote.

i know nothing about all this stuff. i dont follow politics and dont even know the ideas of the candidates running

i am out of the loop