Guns and Ammo

2013, Society  -   38 Comments
Ratings: 7.64/10 from 44 users.

Thomas Morton goes to Albuquerque to check out the new face of school security, and Shane Smith travels to old battlefields of Iraq to see what the ongoing cost of war is when the shooting finally stops.

After the bloodbath in Newtown Connecticut the unceasing debate over gun control in United States reached a highly agitated state. Both sides think they're categorically right and no one is willing to see the middle ground.

Since one of the most intense battles is over whether equipping the teachers with weapons will make schools safer, Thomas went to a school where they actually practice that. Lillie Allen is the principal of New Life Baptist Academy, a church school in Albuquerque with 250 students, 20 teachers, and at least 5 loaded firearms distributed among them.

So every pupil at New Life, from the youngest all the way up to seniors, are involved in active marksman training. It's mostly basic drill, just instead of preparing for a disaster; they're getting prepared for an armed lunatic coming into their doors.

The problem with armed conflict is, it's always far worse than we assume it's going to be. It's not manly bullet grazes and bruises; it's rather permanent disabilities and death. And sometimes the repercussions of war are even worse.

One of the first ways that Iraqi found out about their country's after-war environmental disaster was that lot of people were coming into the hospitals with radiation contamination. At first doctors didn't know why, but soon concluded that they were all scrappers. They were collecting parts from trucks, tanks and helicopters, and all the obsolete scrap that had been bombarded during the war, and then they found out that all of this junk is actually radioactive.

Now of course we are all aware that war is awful. But we don't know just how awful until it's over. Because the weapons used in modern armed conflict have horrible and lasting effects, long after the bloodshed has stopped.

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38 Comments / User Reviews

  1. nini

    Anti USA Doc Simple and sweet...makes us out looking like gun nuts and war criminals....maybe both are true but this is pretty one sided.

  2. Faded Joke

    Going to the range and shooting can be just as relaxing as spending some time on the golf course. My (A)rmalite (R)ifle model 10 hasn't ever been pointed and fired by itself. It takes an operator to do that! Personally some people shouldn't have guns, but that doesn't mean that they should be banned for the whole population. Just look into democide over the last century. When the population gets disarmed tyranny finds a home.

  3. bluetortilla

    Is this a documentary? Technically, these are two special reports in a sort of '60 Minutes' format. Although I found them both informative, I wonder if they belong embedded here plucked from their appropriate location on the Youtube Vice Channel. It's hard to rate or recommend two such disparate stories.

  4. eric wagner

    "this is the world through our eyes" ... epic fail quote from a supposed news source. That's like trying to be a cop and saying "these are the people i don't like and want to arrest" ... when vice gonna wake up and be objective already? THEY ... ARE ... NOT .. NEWS.. if they're not gonna be objective.

    1. bluetortilla

      At least they risk their lives making documentaries.
      What is news? Who is it for, and what purpose does it serve if not for the people's? Whose news would you prefer? Fox?

  5. bulles eyesport

    I suppose the bloodmath is just a bad joke! Never the less its a nice documentary

  6. cyberfrank

    oufff! what have we came to? first the school, have they watched the movie 'red dawn' too often or what? it s not a question of outside invasion that caused the shooting in the schools, it was uncontrolled harassment, the shooters felt that they had been judged by their pairs, I have nt heard them talk about preventing that at anytime, what about those armed teachers? what if they fall in depression? they now have a gun, is nt there any danger that they might use it? don t they get that the aggressors might be even more ruthless because they know that they have guns? how about that old lady? how hard could it be to snatch her purse, and get her gun? they might feel safer having one, but, really, they are not, these things don t happen on impulse, every incident was planned a few days ahead, not knowing which teacher has a gun, makes sense shooting them all... radical behavior calls for radical response, I wish them luck, and that they one day come to their senses to find a better way to deal with this issue. as for irak, depleated uranium? who the heck was the nut who authorised such weapons? the u.s. will now have to face generations of angry people, such atrocity! what horror! it makes saddam look like a party animal! everytime I look at irak issues, it looks worse and worse, god knows how and when we will ever get the wrongs fixed right for those people where will they ever get the strength to forgive us? shame on those responsible!

  7. dewflirt

    Can't watch this in my country :( Ah well, I'll just stick my headphones on and relax with Junior Murvin.
    "police and thieves in the street
    (oh yeah)
    Scaring the nation with their guns and ammunition ....."

    1. bluetortilla

      Get a VPN.

  8. Imightberiding

    After spending most of my adult life unscrewing my head from the screwed up childhood I had in an evangelical christian home about how the devil was going to get his sharp claws into me & I would face an eternity in hell if I sinned, I can only imagine how these children will grow up into emotionally & mentally scarred adults with the knowledge of a real flesh & blood "bad guy" always out to get them.

    I have only recently regarded my upbringing as child abuse. With what these poor children are going through, I can only say: I would not want to be around them when they are adults. These people are abusing their rights as parents & teachers & potentially raising an entire generation of unstable, paranoid children who will ultimately become a threat to each other & society as a whole unless they too discover reality, further education & seek alternate lifestyles than that which they are being raised in.

    This is extreme child abuse & no different than recruiting child soldiers in war torn countries frowned upon by the west. Very frightening.

  9. Rich M

    Ha, Ha. They went to Albuquerque. The cops are the real problem in Albuquerque these days!

  10. Pepe Alvarado

    First Sentence: "Bad Guy's coming"... Good vs Bad duality, what a brainwash. P "You guys are getting ready to die if your not paying any attention"

  11. ~Oliver B Koslik Esq

    teaching tactical emergency drills for children and adults is a great idea. Especially those of: fire evacuation, hand to hand combat (including weapons disarmament), even disaster relief is right.
    As it trains the mind as well.

    Although; first and foremost firearms, do not belong anywhere near a school. Its just decreasing the amount of potential variables, that lead to firearm related injuries or deaths.

    1. 1concept1

      I wonder if teachers shouldn't have stun guns?

      just a thought

    2. bringmeredwine

      It terrifies me-the thought of live ammo and guns in a school.
      Even if just an armed guard took everyone's safety into his or her hands; if there was an incident; children and staff could easily get caught in the crossfire.
      Has everybody gone crazy?

    3. InvisibleHandInMyPants

      Yes. Yes, indeed. Our country has gone crazy, with the help of the NRA and media, on the issue of guns. The notion that some administrator or security guard will save the day and not shoot unintentionally unarmed kids or staff is ludicrous.

    4. bringmeredwine

      The world has gone mad, my friend.
      I'm very grateful to live here in Canada.
      There are gun deaths due to domestic disputes, hunting accidents or gang activity.
      The odds of being shot are still remote.
      We've had maniacs though, wielding scissors or knives. You just never know what could happen.


      The attacks at Fort Hood, the Aurora theater, Sandy Hook Elementary, and the DC Navy Yard were all Gun free zones.

    6. InvisibleHandInMyPants

      Ah yes. The NRA talking point. Were the shooters good guys with guns or bad guys with guns? Obv bad guys with guns. Do good guys with guns ever become bad guys with guns? How can we determine which guys are good and which are bad? Is it the color of their skin? More guns equals less crime? Got it.


      Ah yes and the talking point of a addlepated knowitall ! Yes guns do lower crime rates... Do some research and learn before making a complete fool of yourself !

    8. salmonhair

      " How can we determine which guys are good and which are bad?"

      You can't, until they do something bad. But if a person is a bad guy, it is ridiculous to believe that a law will prevent him from having a gun. These are people who don't care about legal consequences and don't care about dying. A killer is a killer whether or not others have any way to mitigate the circumstance.

      Hypothetical absolutes are a waste of time. You cannot say that people are always safer when everyone but the bad guys are unarmed anymore than you can say that people are always safer when some are armed. If your position includes the words "always" and "never", it is unrealistic.

      No one ever gets a guarantee for safety. Having people armed might make things better or it might make it worse. It depends on each individual situation whether we like that truth or not. If you don't acknowledge the possibility that things could go either way, then you are not being realistic. People on the pro-rights side simply feel that it is better to at least have a chance to alter the outcome positively rather than simply being slaughtered.

      "Do good guys with guns ever become bad guys with guns?"

      Yes, but you do not have the option of knowing who until they do something bad. Until that point there is no legal basis to deny them the right to bear arms.

      Not very reassuring I know, but again, your safety can never be guaranteed.

      As for the more guns=less crime/more guns=more crime debate, that is useless too. neither side can ever prove causation. The saying goes, correlation does not equal causation.

  12. Michelle

    I agree that this should have been two documentaries instead of one. The title doesn't make any sense either. "Giving Schoolteachers Guns and Giving Iraqi Babies Radiation Poisoning with Uranium Ammo" would not have made a good title either, but It would make more sense and would have related better to the actual content. I wonder; Did they not have enough footage to make a full documentary about either subject? Shifting back and forth between the these two disparate subjects with no seque really bothered me. The only thing that Iraq has in common with New Mexico is that they are both deserts. Unless the schoolteachers are also using depleted uranium ammo and giving their pupils cancers I just can't make the connection.

  13. jaberwokky

    I wonder about the approach 'Vice' takes to documenting sometimes. Here they have two somewhat tenuously related issues given a few minutes each and crammed into a 29 minute slot. I suppose doing things this way you reach an audience that you wouldn't otherwise but conversely you never give either subject any kind of in depth treatment. Perhaps it's only right that the onus is on the viewer to follow up on anything they find of interest. Is that the intent? I don't know.

    I won't comment on the first segment other than to say I found it absolutely bizarre to see kids in a 'school' been put through that silly training charade.

    It was interesting that during the second segment they brought up the U.S. usage of 'Agent Orange' during the Vietnam war but still stopped short with the depleted Uranium comparison. To say that they didn't want to give up using the depleted Uranium weaponry because of the tactical advantage it offered is disingenuous to say the least. It's about maximizing long lasting damage, impressing the enemy with the atrocities you are prepared to inflict and yet keeping exposure of all this just below the point where there's a turning point in international outrage. It's why they didn't carpet bomb civilian population centres on the scale they really wanted to during Vietnam, why 'Agent Orange' was so much more effective.

    1. bringmeredwine

      What a way to begin a Sunday morning.
      Whaaat was I thinking?

    2. jaberwokky

      I know, I got a little irked when watching it too. I'll have to go looking for something warm and fluffy to watch to counterbalance this one. Perhaps I'll try 'The Canary Effect', I haven't watched that yet and I have to admit I'm fond of canaries ;)

    3. bringmeredwine

      Umm, it's not really about canaries.

    4. jaberwokky

      Yeah they've already caught me with the misnomers here a few times. I was greatly saddened by 'The Four Horsemen', not a horse to be seen anywhere, just four old guys being angsty about something that had nothing to do with horses. I can see why everybody got so upset in the comments section :(

      Nevermind, I'll try 'The Cove'. I hear it's about dolphins and I prefer a good dolphin doc to stupid old canaries any day :)

      Edit: I'm in danger of sounding a bit too facetious now so I'll stop that carry on.

    5. Pepe Alvarado

      Or you can read an uplifting book, I'd recommend "A Brave New World". It sounds courageous and inspiring!

    6. Imightberiding

      Even more uplifting, you might find Cormac McCarthy's "The Road" as a nice light Sunday afternoon read & alternative to rid you of the blues.

    7. bringmeredwine

      Or perhaps, my favorite of his; "Blood Meridian" for way more laughs!

    8. Imightberiding

      Heart warming, jovial fun for the whole family.

    9. bulldogg18

      Someone didn't get the joke.

    10. bringmeredwine

      LOL I never do!

    11. Fabien L

      It's VICE on HBO, both produce mostly entertainment.
      Don't expect a PBS/BBC in depth treatment.

    12. jaberwokky

      True enough. Unfortunately I'd been listening to a few people trying to convince me how insightful, deep, honest and generally orgasmatronic the Vice guys were. I guess my expectations were just unrealistically high after all that.

    13. 1concept1

      Enigma - intense - random -

      you know its really just one mind talking to another on here - when you think about - no arms - no facial expressions - just words and thoughts -

      and to watch yours unfold is totally out of my context - :-)

      If we don't take ourselves too serious its actually funny?

    14. jaberwokky

      Indeed. Perhaps I need some time out from my keyboarding, all this jumping at shadows is tiring and a little too often I'm not sure if my arguments are meant to placate my own inner madness, or to feed it.

      "If we don't take ourselves too serious its actually funny?" Agreed. No doubt humour is a much better way of reaching understanding.

    15. 1concept1

      I get burned out posting - I get away from it for awhile and then I'm back at it?

      It's been about a five year run on posting for me - I'ts been a very worth while learning experience -

      At this very moment I am working on an on line Visual Art gallery - the skills the comment posting here on TDF as well as other factions have been more then well worth it! - I am not saying I am a wiz bomb writer but I have come a long way and its about to pay off!

      I noticed you made a comment once you said, "I'm babbling" - I do the same thing - sometimes I catch myself posting just to be posting and have no real interest in what i am saying at all - (I've learned to control that somewhat lately -

      Any way time to go I'm babbling :-)