all 200 comments

[–]Sockmonkey8 55 points56 points  (6 children)

As a native Chicagoan I always describe the traffic here as unpredictable.

In Chicago you at least know you will be dealing with crazy, crap drivers.

In Madison it is a different experience everyday.

[–]_TerryMcGinnis_ 26 points27 points  (0 children)

I think this is the most accurate. Some days the Beltline portion of my commute takes 7 minutes, some days 20 lol

[–]HerelnDuckburg[S] 10 points11 points  (2 children)

This has been my exact experience after just a couple weeks. my commute time changes like every 3 minutes, at least on 290 I got where I was going exactly when my GPS told me I was going to get there

[–]dragonhiccups 9 points10 points  (1 child)

Also the past few days has been extra wonky due to back to schoolers

[–]angrydeuce 19 points20 points  (0 children)

Oh it's always something. The road is wet, back to school, game day, an Epic conference, a fucking fender bender causing rubbernecking for 3 fucking miles...

I drive this shit every day during rush hour and honestly the only time it's halfway decent is if there is a major accident behind where I'm getting on.

[–]AidsAcrossAmerica 2 points3 points  (0 children)

My one Chicago driving experience (until this coming Saturday) I described as LA congested with Miami aggressiveness.

[–]mfGLOVE 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Isthmus + beltline + construction season = unpredictable crap

[–]VKH700 202 points203 points  (79 children)

As someone who moved here from California, I have to say - with the exception of certain intersections and thoroughfares - that this is nothing.

[–]HerelnDuckburg[S] 126 points127 points  (69 children)

If you compare it to chicago its certainly nothing either. I just seems like a town this size shouldn't be so congested. I'm sure part of the flaw here is that I was expecting virtually no traffic and I did a poor job of managing my expectations.

[–]KinkyQuesadilla 26 points27 points  (5 children)

As someone who lived in Chicago and some other major US cities, I don't think it's nearly as bad in Madison as it is elsewhere. It's definitely different, as far as being on the isthmus at 5:15 pm and trying to get out of town before learning the one-way streets, or having to deal with only having one major east-west highway through town and a bunch of lakes to drive around, with little to no effective alternative routes.

Additionally, I think traffic in the US has a tendency to become totally f*cked, for whatever reason. I lived in San Diego in the 80s and spent a lot of time in LA, and the thing about highway congestion at that time was that if it was congested, instead of doing the gas/brake/gas/brake thing, everyone just drove a steady 25-35 MPH until the congestion was over. It blew my mind. Do they drive like that there now? Hell no.

[–]NAPALM_SON 15 points16 points  (4 children)

This is what I hate. In other cities where congestion was a regular occurrence, people just understood that if you drove slowly with 3-4 car lengths in between everyone, you didn't have to keep starting and stopping. If you try to do that here, everyone just assumes that your lane is somehow the magic lane and moves in front of you only to slam on the brakes and fuck the whole system up.

[–]noomania 10 points11 points  (3 children)

In Wisconsin there is only one speed limit, the speed the car in front of you is going. You must follow them 5 feet behind at all times.

[–]jeswesky 4 points5 points  (2 children)

5 feet seems a little generous. Better tighten that up!

[–]heavyLobster 3 points4 points  (1 child)

Ideally there would be exactly zero space between cars. Think of how much more traffic would fit on the roads!

[–]jeswesky 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Wow! I could get to work so much quicker that way!

[–]fyhr100 73 points74 points  (37 children)

From my experience interacting with native Chicagoans, they all seem to be under the impression that Madison is a tiny, tiny college town. It's obviously no Chicago or even Milwaukee in size, but it still has a a metro area of ~650k to ~900k depending on which measurement method you're using.

[–]I_punch_kangaroos 25 points26 points  (2 children)

Makes sense as how big places feel are always going to be relative to what you're used to. I grew up in NYC and moved to Madison for college. It always felt like a tiny college town to me, even after 4 years of living there. That's not to take anything away from it because Madison is an incredible place, but Madison still feels like a small town to me. On the flip side, one of my best friends from college was from Bayfield, a little town of a 3-400 on Lake Superior and to him Madison felt damn near enormous, and it took him time to adjust to it.

[–]Astralwisdom 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Might have something to do with the size of the buildings? That's my guess. I have visited Chicago a couple of times and even though I never traveled more than a few miles within the city it felt many many times bigger than Madison.

To clarify: The small area of Chicago I saw felt many times bigger than the whole of madison, to me. Even though it obviously isn't.

[–]_TerryMcGinnis_ 23 points24 points  (13 children)

Where does 900k come from? If you include the stretch between Milwaukee and Madison? The 650k is more realistic in my opinion.

[–]fyhr100 13 points14 points  (12 children)

The Combined Statistical Area that includes Janesville-Beloit. The 650k is the Metropolitan Statistical Area, or MSA.

[–]WikiTextBot 12 points13 points  (3 children)

Madison, Wisconsin, metropolitan statistical area

The Madison, WI Metropolitan Statistical Area, as defined by the United States Office of Management and Budget, is an area consisting of Columbia, Dane, Green, Rock, and Iowa counties in Wisconsin, anchored by the city of Madison. As of the 2010 census, the MSA had a population of 605,435. The latest Census estimate as of July 1, 2017 puts the population at 654,230. The Madison–Janesville–Beloit Combined Statistical Area (CSA) had a population estimate of 880,520.

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[–]Dizzy_Slip -1 points0 points  (2 children)

Bad bot. Nobody defines "metro area" that way as including several area counties.

[–]PurplePenquinWI 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Lots of folks who live in those outer counties work in Madison. Which is probably why they are included

[–]Dizzy_Slip 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes they do. But not all of them. The total of all the counties included in the Madison Metro Statistical Area on Wikipedia is 833,000+. The purpose of a MSA isn't to calculate traffic flows. It is a number developed by the Office of OMB and is used for lots of purposes. Madison does not have the traffic of an area with 833,000 people.

[–]EmperorMaugs 2 points3 points  (6 children)

That is a ridiculous measure. Dane county is shy of 400k

[–]endau 25 points26 points  (5 children)

542k as of 2018

[–]EmperorMaugs 4 points5 points  (4 children)

Thank you for correcting me. I was probably thinking of the signs that say Madison has a population of 350k as you drive from the suburbs into the city

[–]rowrowyourboat 7 points8 points  (3 children)

Those signs say 250k i think

[–]gallowboobisashill 6 points7 points  (2 children)

252k. Used to say 236 or 238.

[–]Dizzy_Slip 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Janesville and Beloit aren't part of Madison's "metro area." That's a pretty absurd definition of "metro area." Nobody defines it that way.

[–]tacos_dont_fear 10 points11 points  (2 children)

Madison proper has around 250k with about 450k in the greater metropolitan area.

Edit: here is a link. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madison,_Wisconsin

[–]fyhr100 4 points5 points  (1 child)

The two numbers that matter are MSA (Metropolitan Statistical Area) and CSA (Combined Statistical Area). Municipal and county boundaries are mostly for political and government purposes and don't accurately account for the economic and cultural demographics of the region.

For example, Buffalo is estimated at 256k people, but its metro area is ~1.2m. The vast majority of people will agree that Buffalo is bigger than Madison, despite Madison having a larger population in the city proper.

[–]evandena 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I wish people who wrote trivia questions understood this

[–]Dizzy_Slip 0 points1 point  (15 children)


All of Dane County-- repeat-- all of Dane County has slightly more than 500,000. Madison metro has nowhere near or even close to the numbers you propose.


[–]fyhr100 0 points1 point  (14 children)

See my other comment.



The only people that actually care about municipal and county boundaries are government workers and people wanting to engage in pointless turf wars.

[–]Dizzy_Slip 0 points1 point  (13 children)

Just as a practical matter, nobody with any common sense would define a city that's 44 miles from Madison, across miles and miles of lush farm land via the Interstate, as part of the "metro area." One of the aspects of defining a Metro Area are shared infrastructure and housing. I'm sure statisticians and policy wonks can come up with all kinds of weird definitions. MSA and CSA are different from Metro Area.

[–]fyhr100 0 points1 point  (12 children)

And they do.


Combined statistical area (CSA) is a United States Office of Management and Budget (OMB) term for a combination of adjacent metropolitan (MSA) and micropolitan statistical areas (µSA) in the United States and Puerto Rico that can demonstrate economic or social linkage. The OMB defines a CSA as consisting of various combinations of adjacent metropolitan and micropolitan areas with economic ties measured by commuting patterns. These areas that combine retain their own designations as metropolitan or micropolitan statistical areas within the larger combined statistical area.

The primary distinguishing factor between a CSA and an MSA/µSA is that the social and economic ties between the individual MSAs/µSAs within a CSA are at lower levels than between the counties within an MSA.[1]CSAs represent multiple metropolitan or micropolitan areas that have an employment interchange of at least 15%.[1] CSAs often represent regions with overlapping labor and media markets.

Please do some research before making blatantly wrong statements. Are you also pretending that no one in Janesville/Beloit commutes to Madison on a regular basis? That would be another bold claim that you make.

[–]Dizzy_Slip 0 points1 point  (11 children)

That's what I was relying on because CSA isn't a Metro Area. It's a different statistical measure.

Reading is hard.

[–]fyhr100 0 points1 point  (10 children)

Maybe you should stop talking out of your ass.

CSA and MSA are different statistical measurements of the same thing - metro area. It's even in the fucking name - Metropolitan statistical area. CSA is just a broader definition of it. That's it. And it's included all the time, which is why the San Francisco Bay Area is considered to have nearly 10 million people, despite it being a combination of multiple smaller metros, and DC is considered to have some 7 million despite being a combination of Baltimore and DC metros.

But here you are, saying you're right and statisticians, analysts, and everyone else is wrong because reasons.

[–]Dizzy_Slip -1 points0 points  (9 children)

Metro Statistical Area isn't a "metro area." You're confusing policy wonk-ese with common sense. Just because a policy wonk defines it that way, doesn't make it true. If you look on Wikipedia under information for cities, they also have a stat for population called "Urban." That stat is what ordinary people consider to be a "metro area." Madison's metro area-- listed under Wikipedia as "Urban"-- is a little over 400,000, and that's what this debate is about. That's what Madison's metro area is to any normal ordinary person who isn't drowning in policy wonk thought processes like yourself. No ordinary person thinks Beloit is part of Madison's metro area-- even if policy wonks come up with a definition that includes it. By that definition, Beaver Dam is also in Madison's "metro area." It's closer than Beloit.

Stop drinking policy wonk Kool-aid. We are talking about the common sense definition of a metro area, not some special jargon based on a particular profession or area of research.

[–]jrshaul 49 points50 points  (16 children)

The TL;DR is the stupid isthmus layout was the direct result of massive bribery a long, long time ago.

If it were built in a damn grid, it'd be fine. But it isn't.

[–]Horzzo 22 points23 points  (7 children)

I could have planned the grid better just from my Sim City experience.

[–]angrydeuce 27 points28 points  (6 children)

My Cities:Skylines experience would have roundabouts everywhere. It would be both glorious and, based on my experiences with how people navigate our current roundabouts, fucking horrifying.

[–]EmperorMaugs 10 points11 points  (3 children)

People always come to a full stop even when there is no one coming, which defeats the whole point of a roundabout

[–]firemastrr 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Roundabouts also break if you add pedestrians or bikes to the mix, and they're very space-inefficient. They're only useful in very suburban/sub-rural/rural areas.

[–]NAPALM_SON 5 points6 points  (1 child)

My favorite are the neighborhood roundabouts with no signage where people use the oncoming lane to turn left instead of going around.

[–]ForgottenPaths 2 points3 points  (0 children)

This is legal in some circumstances. You do not always have to go around those annoying neighborhood circles the long way.


[–]Journeyman42 0 points1 point  (1 child)

If I had magic powers, I'd plop a roundabout at the John Nolen/Willy Street/Blair/Wilson street clusterfuck of an intersection.

[–]angrydeuce 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Oh yeah, that could be so much better. Luckily I'm not often going downtown during rush hour, but even going down there mid morning can be ridiculous. I do not envy people that work downtown, that shit must be so stressful...

[–]forgotusername834 5 points6 points  (5 children)

Yup. I have lived in slightly larger cities; Madison has much worse traffic and it's not even close.

Even Albuquerque is 2x larger than Madison and the traffic wasn't quite as bad there.

[–]gallowboobisashill 6 points7 points  (2 children)

That's partly because Madison is much more dense than Albuquerque. About 75% more dense.

[–]forgotusername834 4 points5 points  (1 child)

I'm guessing that's because of the isthmus?

[–]gallowboobisashill 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Probably not because it only takes account of actual land. More likely a complicated answer due to the University and land use policies.

[–]jrshaul 0 points1 point  (1 child)

That's partially because nobody can be on the road if someone stole their #$@! car.


"I used to live at Central and University."

[–]forgotusername834 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Haha. Yeah, Madison thinks it has a car theft problem, but not quite yet.

Lived about 8 blocks from the racetrack/casino for less than a year. The house had bars on all the windows; wasn't expecting that.

[–]andjjru 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Damn you James Doty!

[–]DokterZ 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Yes- even 10 miles east would have been a ton better for both mass transit and traffic. The Isthmus would have been an excellent state park.

Unfortunately, we seem to still be focused on putting more in the isthmus.

[–]angrydeuce 16 points17 points  (3 children)

Another big problem as I see it is that taxes in Madison are crazy high compared to the surrounding communities, which of course leads to everyone living out in the 'burbs and commuting in every day, all commuting in on the same 6-lane stretch of highway because the minute you venture off it's 30mph maximum with lights and stop signs every 300 feet.

I mean, I live in 53718, and if I could magically pick our house up and drop it literally 2 blocks away our tax bill would be over $200 less a month for the same value house. That's a fuckin car payment if you're frugal. And the schools our kids will be slated to go to are shit-tier. Maybe good compared to, like, inner-city Baltimore, but compared to Middleton, or Waunakee, or Sun Prairie, or Verona, or McFarland? Places 10 minutes (ignoring traffic, ha ha) outside of the city? Please.

People whine and bitch about all the commuters that just "have to drive" every day, but I mean, unless you want to live downtown and enjoy that early-20s lifestyle (and hey, to each their own if that's their bag), or be lucky enough to work within a few miles of home, you're going to have to drive. Give people from the surrounding areas a quick, traffic-independent method of getting into town and they'll use it, but such a thing doesn't exist and likely never will within our lifetimes. Even if I wanted to bus it to work every day, which I can't because I have to be able to drive for work, it would take me almost an hour and a half to get there. It is an 8.5 mile round trip. That's just not fucking reasonable. Even with the 30-45 minutes I spend driving that distance in gridlock, I'm still coming out way ahead. I don't have 3 hours of my day to spend on public transportation.

Thing is, back when I moved here (late 90s) traffic really was so much better than it is now. The worst thing I ever experienced was getting caught behind a train crossing the beltline at 2 in the morning. Even when traffic was heavy it still seemed to be flowing at a decent clip, certainly not the virtual stand-still that I experience most mornings today. Maybe I am wrong, maybe I am wearing rose-colored glasses, but I certainly don't remember it being like this at all. If things continue at this rate without any alternative, high-volume, highway-speed thoroughfares through the city, I honestly don't know how the fuck anyone is going to get around 20 years from now. All the major cities have serious public transportation infrastructure for a reason. A fleet of buses making their rounds, requiring 3 transfers to get anywhere appreciable, ain't gonna cut it.

[–]NAPALM_SON 4 points5 points  (2 children)

Yeah, the worst part is not really knowing where any of that tax money goes to. The roads are shit. The schools are shit.

[–]angrydeuce 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Yeah I mean I'm not one of those "taxes are theft" people but for what we pay I don't feel like we're getting the same treatment we would if our neighborhood was located downtown.

The real kick in the balls is that McFarland schools are literally within walking distance of our house but our kids can't go there, we have to go to Madison schools. So my wife and I are going ti be moving in the next year or so before the kid gets of school age.

[–]Casus125 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Budgets are publicly available.


[–]I_punch_kangaroos 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Though a major benefit of Chicago is that most people can avoid traffic if they want to by just taking the L.

[–]Pandiosity_24601 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Well, that and the two massive lakes straddling the city

[–]Kriket308 1 point2 points  (0 children)

No good way to travel end-to-end of the city without using main thoroughfares because of the damn lakes..

[–]urbansawyer 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Same. Been here three months and i also did a poor job of managing my expectations.

[–]prof_shine 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I grew up here, and lived in SD for a couple years. .. most of those couple years were spent stopping and going on the 805. Yeah, the beltline is obnoxious, and driving through downtown during rush hour is not advised, but you do get where you're going *eventually*.

[–]fyhr100 4 points5 points  (1 child)

Having lived in San Jose, Los Angeles, and Atlanta, I have to agree 100%.

[–]VKH700 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hwy 17 comes to mind. Bumper to bumper, 70 mph, hairpin turns, then dead stops!

[–]Spartan_Manitee 4 points5 points  (2 children)

Yeah, I spent last week driving on the 405 around LA. I get that it’s congested here at certain times but let’s not go bonkers with the hyperbole. It’s at worst “lightly fucked”.

[–]HerelnDuckburg[S] 4 points5 points  (1 child)

For a city this size, its fucked. You obviously cant compare it to a Chicago or LA, which i didnt do.

[–]AidsAcrossAmerica 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Before LA i lived in SW FL. When the snowbirds all come in the fall, traffic is 10x worse than here, with 1/5th the population. Even the worst traffic here is absolute Zen.

[–]OldWolfofFarron1 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Where in California? It’s not like California doesn’t have small towns

[–]VKH700 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Palo Alto

[–]Horzzo 15 points16 points  (3 children)

It is worse this year for some reason. Is the great concentration of housing (condos) in town contributing to this? Are there more students with cars this year? Are elementary students driving to school now?

I don't know what it is but the traffic has been significantly heavy since school has started vs the average school year. Good luck commuters. I will be leaving 1/2 an hour earlier to avoid it. So far I have arrived around the same time anyway.

[–]OverlordQuasar 15 points16 points  (0 children)

Speaking as a student who lives off campus, there isn't enough parking on campus to account for all this traffic, even if everyone who could fit in the parking lots parked. As far as I know, there's barely enough parking for all the staff, the University website literally states (in more formal language) that there's no parking there and it's hopeless to try.

[–]hangun_ 21 points22 points  (1 child)

Madison is growing in a lot of ways but I think you’re correct, we need to start cracking down on all those elementary school kids hogging the roads

[–]no_soul_ginger 5 points6 points  (0 children)

TBF, more and more parents drop off kids today. One or two kids per vehicle instead of 40 or 50 on a bus...

[–]The_Real_BenFranklin 33 points34 points  (8 children)

More than the traffic, what surprised me moving here is how shitty the roads are. Almost every road is a mess (despite all the apparent construction) and driving here has destroyed my suspension.

[–]hangun_ 14 points15 points  (5 children)

Same!!! Just loved from Colorado. Like what the fuck is up with all the potholes and Frankenstein highways? The roads are pieced together so shittily in some places. It’s so bad for your car to drive these roads, the extra wear and tear is insane, I feel like even my interior stuff is rattling and loosening more quickly.

Edit: and I lived up dirt roads in the mountains that were better maintained than 90% of the roads here.

Honestly it’s really annoying how outdated the infrastructure and traffic flow is, as well as the quality of the roads themselves. I would love some of our tax dollars re-allocated to making our major highways better for the people. I realize there’s space concerns especially near the isthmus but at least make a decent express lane without shit that will send your car airborne at 65 mph.

[–]The_Real_BenFranklin 8 points9 points  (4 children)

And there’s no excuse! Plenty of other states seem to have no funding and deal with snow without these level of issues.

[–]hangun_ 7 points8 points  (3 children)

I totally agree. We should probably legalize marijuana and have an extra billion dollars to help out with these types of things.

But still. No excuse.

[–]HerelnDuckburg[S] 3 points4 points  (2 children)

Wisconsin runs like an 8 billion dollar surplus

[–]gallowboobisashill 5 points6 points  (0 children)

What are you smoking?

[–]hangun_ 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Say wha

Now we got a bone to pick here

[–]OverlordQuasar 7 points8 points  (0 children)

According to a professor I had who had worked pretty extensively with the Wisconsin government, the Wisconsin government is just as corrupt and inept as the Illinois government, they just don't bother prosecuting the worst of them.

It's the same reason why my hometown of 80,000 only ever lets more than a few inches of snow pile up for more than a day except in blizzards, despite getting pretty much the same amount of snow. The government has decided they'd rather spend money helping corporations than doing their job.

[–]ilmsk22 1 point2 points  (0 children)

They just redo parts I-94 or 90 every year. There’s not enough in the budget for the rest, sad!

[–]Killcrop 57 points58 points  (3 children)

I don’t know, overall Madison traffic is easy to read though. Don’t go on the beltline or thru campus too close around 7am or 3pm +/- and hour or so. If you can find a way to avoid them through adjusting time or space, you’re golden.

Driving the long way around the lake to get to western Middleton from the middle of east wash will be longer in distance but shorter on time if the traffic is bad on the isthmus (pro-tip: it is).

Beyond that it’s just dealing with the usual mix of people dragging their ass in the left lane, not using signals, or generally not driving like they have even a milligram of urgency to get where they’re going.

[–]theloniouszen 15 points16 points  (0 children)

County road M over the lake takes about the same amount of time for me. There’s a huge choke point at Athens Grill and then again at the intersection of M and K.

[–]jeswesky 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I go the north side around the lake most days, and with the increased congestion on M it is just as horrible. M will be practically at a standstill from 113 all the way to K most days. And getting on 12 from K backs up all the way to Pleasant View half the time. There is really no good way around anymore.

[–]nannulators 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I used to commute from Mcfarland to Middleton. Drive to work was a breeze. Driving home I had to go north around the lake cuz it could take 45 minutes to an hour to get home with the beltline parking lot.

[–]sirsmevans 24 points25 points  (11 children)

My 1.5 hour commute to go 15 miles when I lived in Chicago vs my 12 min commute to go 9 miles here in Madison has lead me to a completely different conclusion then yours.

[–]OverlordQuasar 4 points5 points  (2 children)

But at least if you live in Chicago and have to go a good distance you usually have the option of the L, therefore most of the traffic, and then taking the bus a short distance to and from the L. My dad lives in River North and from the minimum age that my parents were comfortable letting me take the train on my own, I never drove to visit my dad. Taking the Metra was just easier. You can get from one edge of the Chicago suburbs almost to the far edge and completely bypass the traffic.

Maybe I'm biased due to the fact that I mainly walk places and crossing the street in Madison is 10x harder than crossing in Chicago. There are multiple busy streets where lights are pretty rare, and even the spots that do have lights are on insanely long timers. And for some reason, drivers in this city just don't respect crosswalks. In Chicago, you can usually cross at any crosswalk within a minute or two, meanwhile here I wait longer waiting for a chance to get through than I do jaywalking in Chicago. I've checked, and Illinois and Wisconsin have virtually identical laws, so what gives?

[–]sirsmevans 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Normally yes. I was an idiot and lived in Lakeview area (Belmont and Hudson). My parking garage was on clark (old Sports Authority) and my job was in the suburbs in Addison.

So every day started with a 0.6 mile walk to my car. Than a drive down Lake Shore to Lower Wacker to 290. Probably the most miserable time of my life.

[–]mlukasik 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Lived in Lombard, worked in the loop. Although your commute was the reverse of mine, I feel your pain. I moved to North Central Wisc 15 years ago, I don't miss the traffic at all!

[–]HerelnDuckburg[S] 4 points5 points  (7 children)

I'm not saying its worse than chicago. Believe me, it took me an hour to go 7.4 miles in CHI. Through fault of my own i was expecting a 10 min commute for 2 miles and to pull up to clinic to park. So far I'm averaging 35 minutes and I have to park in a lot that's a 20 min walk away from where I work.

[–]millionsofmonkeys 2 points3 points  (3 children)

Bike that shit

[–]HerelnDuckburg[S] 2 points3 points  (2 children)

What to do in winters?

[–]millionsofmonkeys 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Drive, some people still bike though

Edit: sounds like it's actually faster for you to walk than drive?

[–]javasgifted 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I personally bike, with barmits and appropriate clothing it's not really a big deal. I recommend bicycling in the summer first to get used to it.

Or just walk.

[–]converter-bot 4 points5 points  (1 child)

7.4 miles is 11.91 km

[–]HerelnDuckburg[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thanks, converter-bot

[–]sirsmevans 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yeah the west side can get some slow downs. I live in Monona and my commute is solely on 51 to just past the airport. Wide open roads for me on the East Side.

[–]localgyro 9 points10 points  (2 children)

Oh, please. I'll take the beltline over the traffic near O'Hare any day.

[–]HerelnDuckburg[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Yea, so would i.

[–]Skippy_the_Alien 1 point2 points  (0 children)

as much as I hate driving around in Madison, O'Hare traffic is horrendous. Driving near that clusterfuck of an interchange of I-294, I-90, and I-190 all congregation together breaks my will to live

[–]driftlessly 8 points9 points  (0 children)

I will never complain about anything again, ever, after trying to get across town during the Ironman last Sunday.

[–]liquorb4beer 5 points6 points  (1 child)

The issue isn’t the size of the city, it’s the layout. With Madison being on the isthmus, all traffic in/out of downtown gets funnelled either from the east or west with nothing from north/south. Outside of downtown, since Lake Mendota takes up so much space north of the city, the Beltline becomes really the only direct route to get from eastside + suburbs to westside + suburbs.

And if you’re going to Epic from downtown (which much of the traffic does), you really have one main option on 151 and that Verona Road/PD area has been under construction for many years.

There have been on and off talks for several years about the potential for a “new” beltline that would bypass the city farther south and west of the current beltline (like Middleton to Verona to Oregon) but I haven’t heard an update recently. That could alleviate some of the congestion by rerouting the thru traffic that’s going from U.S. 12 to I-90 and doesn’t need to exit in Madison.


[–]Pandiosity_24601 3 points4 points  (0 children)

It’d be sooo awesome if the beltline had an express lane running from middleton to the interstate.

[–]buchec18 5 points6 points  (0 children)

The Beltline during rush hour is my personal hell. Conveniently, I have no choice but to use the Beltline to get to and to get home from work every. Single. Day. Fuck.

[–]Slaughtermuffin 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Madison is home To the three car traffic jam On a six lane road

In haiku form

[–]piekid86 3 points4 points  (4 children)

If your talking about the beltline, Verona road is one of the main driver of problems. Which is to be expected when you put stop lights along the route of a highway.

All the Verona road work is a waste until they put a proper interchange in at the beltline.

[–]gallowboobisashill 0 points1 point  (3 children)

That's Phase 3. Probably will never happen, but there are plans. I have a theory that's why the merger of Seminole Hwy onto the East Beltline is so fucked, as well as the weird new exit for Verona Rd for the West Beltline. It wasn't designed for this phase, but for Phase 3 when the Seminole ramps get taken out and you get the dedicated lane for Verona Rd back.

[–]Journeyman42 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Is Seminole actually being removed? JFC that is the most useless exit I've ever seen in my life, and it prevents a fourth lane from being constructed which would ameliorate a lot of the Verona Road eastbound traffic.

[–]757DrDuck 1 point2 points  (0 children)

That exit was my jam back when I lived in Fitchburg.

[–]gallowboobisashill 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It's definitely not useless, but it will go if and when they ever upgrade 151.

[–]enlightened-creature 8 points9 points  (0 children)

I’m studying traffic engineering at UW Madison and I’d like to add this: mega fucked

[–]rabidcats 3 points4 points  (0 children)

As someone who moved from DC a few years back, it used to feel like driving around with no one else on the road. Now it's like non-rush hour traffic.

[–]VKH700 11 points12 points  (10 children)

You gotta find the backroads.

[–]HerelnDuckburg[S] 43 points44 points  (6 children)

I live on the east side and had to go across town to the west side today and I thought I would be clever by taking county road M. "M" must stand for "mistake".

[–]yogononium 25 points26 points  (4 children)

M is all about time of day.

[–]angrydeuce 12 points13 points  (2 children)

M is a fucking tragedy. If they just put in a proper fucking highway where M is now traffic everywhere would be loads better. I know it's not that simple but this city needs a north beltline so we're going to have to figure it out, because I damn sure don't know how much larger the beltline could possibly expand.

[–]yogononium 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Its greatness is evidenced at how quickly you can get around it when there's no traffic ;)

[–]hatetochoose 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I doubt it will ever happen. That would inconvenience some seriously high dollar properties.


The morning was certainly worse than about 45 min ago.

[–]soapergem1West side 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Or get the FAA to loosen up regulations on ultralight flight vehicles like the BlackFly. I would so love one of those for bypassing beltline traffic.

[–]maxvasquez -5 points-4 points  (1 child)


[–]packerf4n98 1 point2 points  (0 children)

North beltline plz

[–]noomania 10 points11 points  (2 children)

I had such a breath of fresh air driving in LA a couple weeks ago. Sure it was congested and took a long time to get anywhere, but no one was tailgating me or purposefully blocking me from merging. Ahhhhhh so nice.

[–]Pandiosity_24601 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Really? I was there two weeks ago for a work thing and I had the exactly opposite experience driving from LAX to downtown.

[–]ODIMI 4 points5 points  (6 children)

I'm sure you're used to it coming from Chicago.

[–]HerelnDuckburg[S] 0 points1 point  (4 children)

I just wasn't expecting it to be the way it is. Kind of taken aback a little bit haha.

[–]ODIMI 5 points6 points  (3 children)

You're usually okay if you don't take the beltline. I would use Google maps to see if there's a faster route as it will route based on traffic conditions. Find a route that works best for you if it's work you're traveling to.

[–]OlemissConsin 14 points15 points  (0 children)

The isthmus kinda screws everything up as well to be honest.

[–]HerelnDuckburg[S] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

I've been using Google maps because I really don't know where I'm going quite yet but the biggest problems I've experiemced so far have been acidents and what seems like issues with merging Lanes. Sometimes we get to the bottleneck and it's just problems with one lane joining another.

[–]micamanx 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Yeah I drive full time in madison and if people learned how to merge traffic would be so much better. Seems like at least half of the traffic is either paralyzed in fear or completely oblivious to surroundings. Traffic comes to a full stop at every major exit during rush hour. Also so many rear end crashes (I'm guessing texing) that bog down the belt line. Dont get me started on people blocking intersections at lights. Honestly cant wait for self driving cars.

[–]OverlordQuasar 0 points1 point  (0 children)

At least in Chicago it's only ever at specific times and places. I live on the Isthmus and the pattern of traffic seems pretty random to me from the bus routes I take. My morning ride to the University can take anywhere from 5 to 20 minutes it feels like.

And Madison's population density is nowhere near high enough to justify this much traffic. Like, it's a decent sized city, but even in downtown there are only a few buildings that could generously be considered high rises, and nothing that could really be considered to true skyscraper. Hell my hometown has buildings taller than the tallest buildings other than the capitol. Meaning there can't be that high of a number of people who need to be in downtown on a given day, either for work or for living there. Yet the traffic is so much worse than my hometown, even comparing rush hour where our position as the first suburb north of Chicago means we get a sizable portion of all of the north shore suburbs going through on the way home.

Plus, Chicago has the L and the Metra, so you can get most places in downtown reasonable quickly, or between the suburbs and downtown pretty quickly. Madison has no commercial trains, at least not going through downtown, so there's no way to avoid the traffic.

[–]monxmon 6 points7 points  (3 children)

I moved from Chicago and felt like the traffic in Madison was nothing. You just have to learn how to navigate it.

Keep in mind though, that downtown Madison is an isthmus. There's tons and tons of people living in and trying to navigate through an extremely small land space. It's not like other towns or cities where it's a grid and there's a hundred ways to get from point A to B. In most cases you only get two options to go from east to west and visa versa, you can either take the beltline or go through downtown.

Also it being a college town does make it naturally unpredictable, with the flux in population when the college kids are here as well as college sporting events, etc.

[–]OverlordQuasar -1 points0 points  (2 children)

But there really aren't that many people on the Isthmus compared to the downtown areas of other similarly sized cities, or even significantly smaller cities. The height restriction means that there are no buildings that are super tall and have a high density of people (since, based on the floors listed on Wikipedia, the capitol dome is not used for anything). Hell my hometown of 80,000 people has a denser downtown than here. It's smaller, due to being a smaller town, but it has a similar number of high rises and honestly a higher density of high rises.

The part that annoys me is there's no way to avoid the traffic. Either you walk, where you inevitably have to cross a ton of streets that don't have lights in convenient places and where, for some reason, nobody ever stops for you, even in a cross walk (the amount of time it takes me to get enough people to stop for me to cross Gorham and Johnson is longer than the amount of time I wait if I want to Jaywalk in Chicago. I actually have to hope there's enough traffic for it to be at a standstill. Or you can bike, which only really works down University and State, and a few other roads, plus you have to deal with the fact that, unlike the Chicago area, there are hills here that are really bothersome to bike up. Or you take the bus, which has traffic, plus the buses here stop every single block, slowing it down even more (buses in the Chicago area, in my experience at least, typically stop around every other block), plus buses pretty much only take the main roads so you are going to go through the worst of the traffic. Or you drive/uber, which obviously means you're stuck in traffic.

In the Chicago area, you can take the Metra and L to avoid basically all traffic. In downtown, you can get basically anywhere with the L and Metra and maybe a short bus ride. You never have no option but to cross all of downtown by dealing with traffic.

[–]monxmon 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I would completely disagree that the bus, L and metra allow you to avoid traffic in Chicago, especially in the loop. Depending on the stop you're waiting at and the time you might have two or three trains come through until there's one with enough room for you on it.

[–]537O3 0 points1 point  (0 children)


I've crossed Johnson 2X/day for years at one of the Square streets (Pinckney, WI, Carroll). Gorham not as often, but still hundreds of times. It's just not that bad. Wait at the uncontrolled intersection for the light to change upstream, or walk a block to a stoplight. (And push the damned button—you probably do this, but I'm amazed at how many people stand next to the "Push button for walk light" sign and don't push the button, what the fuck.)

I rarely need to rely on cars to stop. In fact, I used to obstinately refuse to cross when they stopped, because it was always the near-lane car that stopped on a one-way street (Gorham, Johnson, Dayton) and I had no interest in getting squashed by a speeding car in the far lane. Now I wave cheerily, and if traffic is still moving in the far lane, I stop in front of the near-lane car until the far lane is free. They feel like they've done me a favor, and I'm merrily on my way.

[–]hangun_ 8 points9 points  (12 children)

I just moved here from Denver and i have also noticed the sheer amount of elderly people here which I think could possibly have something to do with the retarded driving that contributes to the traffic.

[–]HerelnDuckburg[S] 7 points8 points  (6 children)

Yea a lot of the bottlenecks are literally just merging lanes, haha.

[–]hangun_ 2 points3 points  (5 children)

It drives me nuts. I feel like the mean age in Denver is like 35-40 and the mean age in Madison is friggin 80 everywhere besides downtown proper.

[–]research_humanity 6 points7 points  (4 children)

Try changing anything downtown. The old people appear magically. Have a concert? You bet they are going to complain about everything from the location to the venue to the volume to the style.

[–]hangun_ 1 point2 points  (3 children)

THANK YOU they’re fucking everywhere around here!!! I was trying to be kind of non-controversial and account for the UW and Madison College but it’s something I’ve been kind of shocked by since moving here. Like damn there a lot of old mother fuckers EVERYWHERE.

[–]OverlordQuasar -2 points-1 points  (2 children)

It feels like only 10% of Madison is between the ages of 25 and 60. It's all university kids like myself, and old people.

[–]hangun_ 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Year there may be a huge disparity. Where my 29year olds at! Married in Verona working at epic? So midwestern

[–]ratherapeninsula 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Madison has one of the highest concentrations of millennials anywhere in the country. source article

[–]BurtDBurt 2 points3 points  (2 children)

I also moved to Madison from Denver (about 3 years ago). Madison traffic definitely sucks during the AM and PM rush hours, but I would 10/10 take Madison traffic over Denver traffic. What's the Denver rush hour - like 2pm to 8:30pm?

Some people in this thread mentioned how some around the city don't drive with a sense of urgency. I agree, that can be frustrating at times but I prefer Madison drivers over Denver drivers because of their lax driving style. It didn't matter where I was in the Denver metro area - I would often have someone riding up my asshole, cutting me off, and flipping me off. That doesn't usually happen in Madison. The people out here are so chill!

I hope you enjoy your time out in Madison! It's an awesome place to be!

[–]Pandiosity_24601 2 points3 points  (1 child)

It’s unfortunate. Denver used to not be that way. Growing up, CO was a quiet state and you could get from the Springs to Denver in 45-50 minutes. Now? You could do your taxes while waiting in the stretch of traffic between Monument and Castle Rock.

[–]hangun_ 1 point2 points  (0 children)

At least the roads are brand new. Also the scenery from monument>rastle cock is gorgeous

[–]blockf 7 points8 points  (1 child)

Old person objects: "Elderly does not equal retarded."

[–]hangun_ -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

I said “could possibly have something to do with...”

But the whole “elderly person objects to something that wasn’t even said” is kinda proving a lot of points.

Edit: downvote me if to want but I would never say elderly= retarded. Those are not my words. My grandparents are my mentors and way smarter than me.

[–]morganshmorgan 2 points3 points  (0 children)

We gotta pick up downtown and put it somewhere else

[–]dcandapEast side 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Lived in Chicago for 5 years, this traffic is a goddamn cakewalk in comparison.

[–]HerelnDuckburg[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Of course it is. My point is that for a city this size, the traffic blows.

[–]dcandapEast side 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Yeah fair. But for a city oriented like it is, it kinda makes sense... lol.

[–]mikeoley 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Moved from la. This is a joke.

[–]Darth_Schrader 1 point2 points  (0 children)

What I want to know is what happened to the teaching of traffic laws in drivers ed? I see so many crazy drivers in this town and oblivious drivers as well. A week ago or so I was cut off by a guy in his 20s who had his face in his phone. When I caught up to him at a red light and noticing his window was open I said "WTF Man?! Put the phone down and watch the road!" He then cranked up his radio and drove off - still looking at his phone.

[–]I_want_a_unique_name 1 point2 points  (0 children)

As someone who moved to Madison from the east coast and had to commute up interstate 287 from central Jersey to the Hudson Valley for six months... the traffic here ranges from not too bad to somewhat irritating.

Imagine getting caught in an hour of traffic to go four miles because of an incorrectly designed interchange that clogs up every single day. No amount of leaving early or late will save you, you're screwed. The problem is compounded by America's angriest drivers darting back and forth between tractor trailers all trying to get a leg up, and you literally get honked at and flipped off for maintaining a safe following distance. Soon you become one of them too. That's the Jersey life

[–]Skippy_the_Alien 1 point2 points  (1 child)

As a native Chicagoan, I'm sick and tired of people saying that Madison traffic is nothing compared to say Atlanta or L.A...YEAH NO FUCKING SHIT. That's not the point

the issue is that a city the size of Madison should not be having this amount of ungodly frustrating traffic. The problem is that the morons who founded the city put it on a goddamn isthmus. And later, the same half-witted descendants of these founders thought it would be a brilliant idea to have one-way routes.

It also doesn't help that A.) Every goddamn person who works at the UW hospital lives on the east fucking side for some reason B.) The whole goddamn state of Wisconsin descends upon Madison for Badger games and C.) NO ONE IN THIS GODDAMN CITY UNDERSTANDS THAT YOU CAN GO 5MPH OVER THE SPEED LIMIT. Sorry for that outburst, I've just raged so hard going west on Mineral Point lol.

[–]HerelnDuckburg[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This is exactly my point!

[–]HeavyLeadBelly 4 points5 points  (1 child)

As someone who lived in the Seattle area this traffic is pretty fucking basic.

[–]hangun_ 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Wait a large metropolis on the pacific coast has more traffic than Madison? r/gatekeeping

[–]choopie-chup-chup 3 points4 points  (1 child)

Also LA expat. Funny to think my former 90 minute commute time in SoCal (20 miles) translates time-wise to a drive from home base in Madison to: Green Bay, Milwaukee, Racine, La Crosse, Rockford, IL, Dubuque Iowa...Wausau. So yeah, the 'beltline' bugaboo is silly !


  1. I said nothing about the betline. 2. This is not apples and oranges, its relative, you cannot compare MAD to LA

[–]shellgameredux 2 points3 points  (3 children)

I moved here from Chicago a year ago and I love laughing at people who complain about traffic here. This is no exception.

[–]HerelnDuckburg[S] -1 points0 points  (2 children)

You're so cool. In case you misunderstood I'm not saying Madison is worse than Chicago.

[–]shellgameredux 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Thanks mate. I understood your comment. My whole point was that traffic just isn’t that bad here. Live in any decent sized city, it’s going to suck at rush hour. I just don’t think it’s all that bad here. Now if you want to talk about which city has the worse drivers it’s Madison hands down.

Honestly if there was a major American city that banned cars in a downtown area I’d probably move there just on how much nicer it would be.

[–]micamanx 0 points1 point  (0 children)

that would be cool

[–]bizlur 1 point2 points  (2 children)

As someone who move here 2 years ago: wtf does CTH stand for? Is that supposed to be “County Highway”? That’s the only thing I could guess it might be.

[–]driftlessly 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Ja, it's county highway. All our county highways have letter names.

[–]InfiniteRelation 1 point2 points  (1 child)

It's almost like we have some geographical restrictions that make it hard to build more roads to ease congestion. Lakes or isthmuses or some shit. Weird.

[–]Skippy_the_Alien 0 points1 point  (0 children)

that speaks to the fucking idiocy of the inbreds and halfwits who founded this city. I love Madison and I should probably show them more respect, but damn I curse every single one of those motherfuckers every time I have to drive downtown when I'm hangry

[–]tortugablanco 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Beltline sucks

[–]reddit_at_work404 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The traffic here isn't the best no, but compared to Chicago or California, it's a friggin breeze! Cali has traffic jams taking an hour to move down 2 exits.

[–]jschleus 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It still amazes me what leaving 15 minutes earlier or later can do to your commute. I live on the North Side, and if I leave at 6:50 to go to work downtown, it takes 10-12 minutes. If I leave at 7:00 though, it adds 10 minutes easily.

[–]z1one 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I personally like it when I have to stop at every single light going down East Wash. Gives me time to enjoy the drive.

[–]Dizzy_Slip 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It's "fucked" but it's not nearly as bad as any major metropolitan area and it doesn't last nearly as long.

[–]Spykez0129 0 points1 point  (4 children)

This city has outgrown it's streets. The Beltline needs to be figured out because it's an absolute nightmare that's made even worse by retards who can't figure out the concept of be in the lane they need to be, before you're 10 fucking feet away from it and cut everyone off to get there.

They need a highway system like Milwaukee has at this point, shit just going over the top of everything to bypass having to drive on that shit highway.

[–]Fortisimo07 3 points4 points  (1 child)

There also seems to be a lot of people in Madison who don't understand you should use the highway ramps to get up to highway speed before merging on instead of just jumping into the right lane at 35mph

[–]Spykez0129 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I lose my fucking SHIT every time that happens. Jesus christ. Just happened this morning, guy in the lane kept slowing down for this dumb blond bitch so she could merge in and instead of just hitting the gas to get on, she slows down to 25mph and cuts in front of me on a 55mph road. Almost had to swerve.

[–]Agil7054 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Uh no, Milwaukee is horrible. It is the most confusing and dangerous roadway I have ever driven. And they can never finish the construction on it cause it costs so much to build it up high like that. And don't even get me started on how many people are afraid of heights like that. Just give us another option to loop around the south part of the city to split up traffic during rush hour and everything will be fine.

[–]Spykez0129 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I love using their highways when I'm on the bike. Those big high up curves and looking down like "ha ya...I'd be dead"

[–]Nonadventures 0 points1 point  (1 child)

200 years ago people built a city on a tiny strip of land between two lakes. It wasn't the best idea from a traffic perspective, but it happened and we gotta deal with it. What's Chicago's excuse?


Um...theres 9 million more people? Lol.

[–]choopie-chup-chup -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Yeah. Can't compare giant to tiny. With you. Sorry if my point was misunderstoid.