I quit the core team, here is why











  • Elgg isn't going anywhere and there are still people who do things though not actively. Instead of making a fork just contribute to the core. That's the whole problem - companies have strategic interests, make money selling Elgg services, but when time comes to contribute back, they look for other strategic ways out...

  • Not entirely true, but I get your point. You do have to understand that companies like ours have to pay our developers and therefore it is not free for us to contribute, as for an individual spending his free time just because he is doing what he likes to do.

    When I personally started with elgg I also was such an enthusiast contributing, making plugins and engaging in the discussion. I lost interest when the core team did not seem to listen to my wishes for a different data model, supporting no-sql, easing the pace of deprecation and not facilitating proper CMS, api , split front end from backend development with angular, html5 etc..

    I am probably the worst developer in our team, but my architecture background is still very valuable to them and could have been for Elgg as well.

    Anyway, we still have supported the project from the sidewalk with plugins, upgrades, discussions and pr's. Maybe not as much as we could have, but far more then most community members. Most of them could not, even when they wanted too.

    So giving the state of the project, we do need to look at ways out if there is no plan to continue. Stepping in and fortify the core team is currently not feasible for us, since our interest is not high enough to rationalize such a decision.

    I am open for a constructive offline discussion with whoever is left in the core team to see how we can help and still not drag us into a pitfall where we cannot achieve our own goals.

  • Companies have to understand that for every hour they contribute they will save two. You should consider all the junk boilerplate code your devs have to write, over and over. It would have saved them time if they streamlined the process within the core.
    Anyhow, I am done with this discussion. From now on I only care about 0s in my bank account, not how to save time to companies like yours by building a better framework.

  • Those two statements are in total contradiction with each other. The first advocates that companies or devs should contribute with a commercial intent, the second advocate a total lack of contribution because of personal financial interest.

    I would therefore conclude this discussion that you fully see my point of the ambiguity of commercial interest versus free contribution. I think that we are making a better judgment than you by not choosing either one.

  • It's disappointing, but I totally get it.  My contributions have been exceedingly low for a while now and it's purely due to a lack of available time.  We have to order our priorities whatever those are.

  • Gerard, I have put in a few thousand hours of free work into core and plugins, before I finally concluded that it's going to kill me. I don't choose half-way, because I am well pass the point where I would feel guilty for freeriding on someone's work.

  • to be clear, the first statement by ismayil does not advocate contributing specifically with a commercial intent. the first statement advocates contributing only - but if the contributor is using the code commercially then there may be a commercial intent behind the action. a company can, contrary to popular opinion, actually operate non-commercially - just because it sees the benefit of doing so to its overall intentions. i'm sure michele of socialbusinessworld has something to say on that.

    i feel that what is missing is balance, which is no surprise since nearly everything on earth is so imbalanced. it is probably not balanced for a developer to put so many hours into a free project while not being supported in a world that puts barcodes on everything and which has deliberately sought to eliminate 'free' from reality (e.g. free food bearing plants have been all but eliminated from public places). it is also not balanced for revenue generating groups to use the hard work of unpaid developers without providing anything in reply to that hard work - whether it be money, time coding or time testing/supporting.

    with a project management hat on, i find it very difficult to know what the best option is for elgg since i have zero idea of which organisations and websites are using elgg and so which ones are in the best position to support elgg in the ways needed. i think it is a good idea to do something to stop freeloading from commercial groups by requiring them to pay a commercial license.

  • in fact, it is not just commercial groups that are involved in this - i think possibly also government groups do too.

  • Most of the copyright holders would not agree to change the license including me.

  • why is that steve? even if it means the difference between a strong future for elgg vs. the near or total end of elgg?

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