IRC log of #schooltool for Wednesday, 2012-09-05

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th1ahi replaceafill, yvl, menesis.16:31
yvlgood morning16:31
replaceafillgood morning/afternoon16:31
th1aHow's LDAP, yvl?16:32
yvlit so happend that I didn't do any ST today16:32
yvland I'll do only some half a day tomorrow16:33
yvlbut it's near the end16:33
th1ayvl: ABC.16:33
yvlit's in the "just write the remainder down and clean up"16:33
th1aAlways Be Closing.16:33
th1aGood thing you're not a salesman.16:33
th1a(closing the deal)16:34
yvlI'm not familiar with the ABC16:34
yvloh :)16:34
yvlclosing the deal, not closing in16:34
yvlwas not familiar with that one16:34
yvl(maybe I'm not a salesman ;) )16:34
yvlthanks :)16:35
yvlwhat would be my next task, th1a ?16:35
th1aOptimization and/or more celery.16:36
yvloh yay16:36
yvloptimization you say16:36
yvlplease elaborate :)16:37
th1areplaceafill, did you talk to Matt?16:37
yvl(I can work on that for a few months ;) )16:37
replaceafillth1a, no16:37
replaceafillth1a, i talked to jelkner yesterday16:37
th1aOK, so basically if there is something specific we can do in the short term, then that.16:37
replaceafillMatt is comming today i think16:37
th1aDo to resolve this APS issue.16:38
th1aOtherwise, get the ZEO stuff ready to test at APS, see if that helps them.16:39
yvlthey deploy via debs right?16:39
replaceafilljelkner's instance uses sandboxes16:40
yvlif yes, that means work for menesis - since we need to update start/stop scripts16:40
yvland configs16:40
yvlok, we could start with jelkner's instance16:40
yvlreplaceafill, please keep me posted16:41
th1aHopefully we'll catch up with Matt today.16:42
yvlmaybe fiddling with threadpool size will do the trick16:42
yvl(and keep in mind, that with ZEO - double the processes means double the RAM usage)16:42
th1aYes.  I think they got a triple RAM deal on this server.  ;-)16:43
yvlah :))16:44
replaceafillMem:      16466000    4215776   12250224          0     228904    315744816:44
th1aSo we can go nuts.16:45
yvlare they going to distribute the load between different processes (running on different ports)?16:46
yvlor it's something we should do?16:46
th1aI think you can use it as a case study.16:47
yvlok :)16:48
yvlsounds good to me16:48
yvlreplaceafill, please ask Matt for his vision on how it should be set up16:48
replaceafillwill do16:49
yvlassuming we only enable ZEO16:49
yvland do nothing else16:49
yvlas in - there's still the same identical single ST process that connects to ZEO instead of DB directly16:49
yvl(/me done)16:51
th1aThanks yvl.16:52
menesisI was doing 2 things16:53
menesisinvestigate why buildbot stopped working after upgrade16:53
menesis(before moving it to the new server)16:53
menesisupload some bugfix releases that I had16:54
menesisalso update my version tracker to see what's need to be uploaded for quantal16:56
menesisit is now beta freeze, to be released tomorrow16:56
menesishave to start uploading stuff to ubuntu16:56
th1aAh, ok.16:57
menesishave not been fixing bugs16:57
menesisanything I have to do soon?16:58
th1aI didn't think you were. ;-)16:58
th1aJust stay on top of what we need to do for the release.16:58
th1aThe Ubuntu release.16:58
th1aThere isn't anything pressing for VA right now.16:59
menesisI heard schooltool.cando needed a release?17:00
th1aaelkner didn't confirm that he was done with the change, and I didn't think it was that pressing.17:01
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th1ahi highvoltage!17:02
highvoltagehi th1a!17:03
highvoltagehow are things?17:03
th1ayvl is just finishing reviewing how our LDAP module works with Zentyal.17:03
highvoltageoh wow, stgraber asked me about that last night and we just assumed that that was going nowhere.17:03
th1aIs the Zentyal/Edubuntu marriage still going forward?17:04
highvoltage...kind of.17:04
highvoltagethey had some problems over this cycle, so for 12.10 we're mostly going with our own samba4 scripts17:04
highvoltageEdubuntu 12.10 server is meant to be mostly proof of concept, so we're not too scared to chop and change a lot at this point17:05
th1aWhat kind of problems did they have?17:05
highvoltageby 13.04 we want to have been more stabilized on our technology choices, since we want something supportable by 14.04 LTS17:05
highvoltagelots of bug fixes that caused delays17:05
highvoltagezentyal 3.0 isn't released yet (which was kind of expected), but they have some plan to get it into the archives possibly *just* before final freeze17:06
highvoltagebut that doesn't give edubuntu much time to do much about it.17:06
th1aI'm familiar with that kind of crunch.  ;-)17:07
highvoltageI'm way out of the loop with schooltool these days, how is it going?17:07
th1aOut of childhood,17:07
th1anearly through the awkward adolescence.17:08
th1aDefinitely growing since we re-did the UI last year.17:08
highvoltageI saw the screenshots, it certainly looks beautiful17:08
th1aMark will be phasing out his support through 2014, so we need to come up with a sustainable model (i.e., replaceafill and I are starting a business).17:09
highvoltageth1a: ah, I was wondering about that recently, too17:09
th1ayvl: Can you give highvoltage a quick summary of what you did with the LDAP review?17:09
yvlbasically we're auto-parsing /etc/ldap.conf17:10
yvlto figure out where people are stored17:10
yvland query for inetOrgPerson classes there17:10
yvlwe also assume that ldap server is local and on port 38917:10
yvlso just installing schooltool.ldap on an edubuntu machine with zentyal running17:11
yvlshould let you log in as zentyal users configured in groups/users module17:11
highvoltagesounds good and simple.17:12
yvlwell, the default case should be anyway17:12
th1aWe can make it more complicated in the future.  ;-)17:12
yvlyou can tweak server settings of course17:12
veloutinis there any provisioning from/to ldap?17:13
yvland you can map posixAccount group ids to schooltool groups17:13
highvoltagethat's nice, posting to #edubuntu too to keep them in the loop...17:13
yvlnothing to17:13
yvllet's see...17:13
yvlfirst name, last name, email, phone17:13
highvoltageth1a: so is the plan to turn schooltool into a standalone company? or to get a new sponsor? or is it too early to think about that still?17:14
yvlis taken from LDAP on "person creation" in ST17:14
th1aWe're thinking about a company that would do tier 3 support, custom development, etc.17:14
yvl"person creation" is first time authorization via ldap17:14
yvland in general, it takes as much info as it can from person class17:15
th1aMostly not wanting to be dependent on chasing grants or government contracts around the world directly.17:15
yvli.e. person, more from organizationalPerson, more from inetOrgPerson (that Zentyal creates by default I think)17:15
veloutinso people fill in their LDAP, then when users try to log in they get created?17:15
highvoltageth1a: yeah chasing grants doesn't sound that sustainable either.17:16
th1aIt feels sleazier than chasing clients.17:16
highvoltageI think I know exactly what you mean.17:17
veloutingrant heft17:17
th1aOur long term plan is to be bought out by Revolution Linux.17:17
highvoltageth1a: well, anything is possible17:18
veloutin(I can confirm the ROFL was real)17:18
th1areplaceafill want to emigrate to Canada.17:19
th1ayvl is going to write down what he just told you in a somewhat longer and more permanent form and I'll make sure the edubuntu guys know where to find it.17:20
th1aAnd we'll have to get some user documentation going.17:20
th1aRight now I think schooltool.ldap is just in our PPA, not universe.17:21
th1aSo we wouldn't be quite ready for 12.10 on this either.17:21
th1aOK, we were actually in the middle of our weekly meeting.17:23
th1aSo we should probably get back to that.17:23
th1aThanks menesis.17:23
highvoltagereplaceafill: where are you now?17:23
replaceafillhighvoltage, El Salvador :)17:24
highvoltageth1a: thanks, that would be great, then I could forward it and link to it too :)17:24
replaceafillth1a, so i added the Evaluated option to the Skill Type filter in the Summary Report17:24
highvoltageth1a: well, I'm really fine for it not being ready for 12.10 in time, I'd rather take the progress there is than have nothing because it couldn't fit into 6 months :)17:24
highvoltage(which has sadly happened way too often)17:24
highvoltagereplaceafill: nice, our admin person's husband is from el salvador (and I was in nicaragua a few months back, beautiful part of the world)17:25
th1aYes, the six month cycle can throw you off.17:25
replaceafillth1a, i also added an option to pass helpers to selenium tests, using the approach yvl explained on Monday17:25
replaceafillyvl, i have a couple of quesitons for you :)17:26
replaceafillif i may17:26
replaceafill1. in cando we don't have a skin, right?17:27
yvlI don't remember, but I think we don't17:27
replaceafillso i created this weird cando-resource viewlet17:27
replaceafillto include cando.js and cando.css in some views17:27
replaceafillhowever that makes me insert the viewlet in every specific view17:28
replaceafillwhich is a lot of repeated zcml17:28
replaceafilli've been experimenting, mostly in schooltool.quiz17:28
replaceafilland thought of using a marker interface for the views17:28
yvlyou didn't like resource library directive?17:28
replaceafillyvl, i didn't like i've used it repeatedly17:29
replaceafilllike if i want it in view A17:29
yvlI see17:29
replaceafilli do <flourish:viewlet... view="A" />17:29
replaceafillif i want it for view B17:29
yvloh no17:29
replaceafilland so on17:29
yvlis this viewlet dynamic?17:29
replaceafilljust inserts the resourcelibrary directive in the content17:30
yvlmaybe you could do that in templates?17:30
yvlinserting the directive?17:31
yvlor in base classes?17:31
replaceafillyvl, i thought of base classes at first17:31
replaceafilland i'm kind of ok with it17:31
replaceafillbut what about marker interfaces instead?17:31
replaceafilllike this view implements this marker interface17:31
replaceafillso it gets the resources17:31
replaceafillfor some reason i think marker interface is easier to remember17:32
replaceafillbut maybe it's just me :D17:32
yvlwell... you can do that17:32
replaceafillin any case i'd like to get rid of the duplicated registrations17:32
yvlbut I probably would like it better in:17:32
yvl1) templates17:32
yvl2) view classes17:32
yvl3) as a class mixin17:33
yvl4) as an marker interface17:33
yvl5) in a skin17:33
replaceafillin that order of preference, right?17:33
yvlyes ;)17:33
replaceafillfor 2) i'd need to use zc.resourcelibrary.needs, correct?17:34
replaceafilllike in the update() method17:34
yvlfor 2) and 3)17:34
yvland it would be better in render17:34
yvlor __call__17:34
replaceafilli'll clean that up then17:34
replaceafill2nd question :)17:34
replaceafillanother workaround i used in cando17:35
replaceafillis related to breadcrumbs of courseskillsets17:35
replaceafillfor example:17:35
replaceafill  <flourish:breadcrumb17:35
replaceafill      for="schooltool.cando.interfaces.ICourseSkillSet"17:35
replaceafill      view="schooltool.gradebook.browser.gradebook.FlourishStudentGradeHistory"17:35
replaceafill      title=""17:35
replaceafill      />17:35
replaceafillif i remove that, the gradebook history page becomes innaccessible17:36
replaceafillbecause a permission issue17:36
replaceafilland this is what i don't understand17:36
replaceafillthe security log blames the teacher for not having schooltool.view on the coursekillset17:37
replaceafillbut it's clearly defined in course.zcml17:37
replaceafillif i add:17:37
replaceafill  <allow17:37
replaceafill      interface="schooltool.cando.interfaces.ISkillSet"17:37
replaceafill      permission="schooltool.view"17:37
replaceafill      crowds="teachers" />17:37
replaceafillto security.zcml17:37
replaceafillthen everything works again17:37
replaceafillno permission error17:37
replaceafilli don't understand how someone cannot have schooltool.view on something17:38
replaceafilli mean, if he's authenticated17:38
replaceafilland the <class ...> directive states the right permissions17:38
yvlwow, I don't have latest cando code checked out17:39
replaceafillyvl, ah np17:39
yvlewll, permissions do popagate via parents17:39
yvlso if the parent chain leads somewhere unexpected...17:39
replaceafillwhat makes me suspicious (if that's a word!), it's our proxy use in the gradebook17:40
replaceafillto simulate the course skill is attached to the section17:40
replaceafillbut it's over my head right now :(17:40
replaceafillthe problem is, the more problems the more curious i get :D17:40
replaceafillth1a, now going back to the social skills grade view17:41
replaceafilli'll get rid of the bug you reported17:42
replaceafillth1a, btw, you should hear from jelkner soon17:42
yvlbtw, replaceafill, if you could branch the (broken permission) code somewhere and email me a link, I would look at it17:43
replaceafillone of his colleagues wants ability to explain tardies/absences in the journal17:43
replaceafillyvl, ah sure17:43
th1aI told him it would take a while.17:43
replaceafillyvl, i'll do that later today17:43
th1aWe'll have it before June.17:43
replaceafillth1a, me too :)17:43
th1aI mean, it is on the short list of major remaining features.17:43
th1aBut we can't just jam it in now.17:44
replaceafillok, i think i'm done17:44
replaceafillyvl last request17:44
replaceafillnot urgent17:44
replaceafilljust want your feedback17:44
replaceafill(which i requested 1 month ago!)17:44
yvlI did not respond!17:45
yvlshame on me!17:45
yvlsorry man17:45
replaceafillwe all busy ;)17:45
replaceafillth1a, i'm done17:45
th1aOK, keep me posted replaceafill.  We need to get back to CanDo reports eventually.17:46
replaceafillth1a, kk, will do17:46
th1aI'm going to meet with Anna from the Fab Academy on Friday to start getting their data together.17:46
replaceafillth1a, i think we need to work on the completion reports soon17:47
* replaceafill hopes th1a has some nice ideas on it :)17:47
th1aI will.17:47
th1aOK, thanks replaceafill.17:47
th1aHave a good week & weekend guys.17:48
* th1a drops the bag of gravel.17:48
yvlgood week to you guys17:48
replaceafillthanks everybody17:48
* replaceafill goes to get breakfast, back in ~2017:48
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* replaceafill just talked to jelkner21:10
replaceafillMatt is at djangoconf all week21:10
th1aAh.  OK.21:10
replaceafillsomebody should organize a zopeconf :P21:11
veloutinor... pycon talks about zope?21:14
th1aOnce upon a time there were lots of pycon talks about zope.21:15
th1aAlso worried conversations about what to do about Rails.21:15
veloutinwhat about rails?21:15
th1aAnd lightning talks about exciting new midwestern Python CMS's that would be open sourced soon...21:16
th1aveloutin:  I was at Pycon the year Rails changed everything.21:16
th1a(and Django was introduced in the abovementioned lightning talk)21:18
veloutinyes, the framework for prefectionists with deadlines21:19
th1aZope 2 was the Rails of 1998.21:20
veloutinI remember seeing a presentation about "Where Zope leads, Python follows"21:20
th1aNot so much now.21:21
veloutinah, well that's from 5 years ago :\21:23
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