Epiphanies — Ship of Fools https://forums.shipoffools.com/ Sun, 25 Aug 2019 22:06:04 +0000 en Epiphanies — Ship of Fools Less Than Human https://forums.shipoffools.com/discussion/1816/less-than-human Mon, 19 Aug 2019 12:01:49 +0000 Epiphanies Doublethink 1816@/discussions
I don't agree with that. For me, human is a state solely reliant on possessing those attributes we generally ascribe to humans. Remove those attributes and you have something less, and often much less, than human. It follows that other species that display near human attributes are also deserving of being considered human. The unfortunate Tony Bland had lost all the attributes of being human and should have been allowed to die much sooner.

Similarly, the lack of human attributes in a foetus is why I have no problem with abortion.

How disabled do I have to be or become, for you to start to consider me sub-human ?

The kind of identity striping dehumanising Alzheimer's that my mother has would do it. She made it clear when she saw her own mother similarly reduced that if she ever got to that stage she'd like someone to put a pillow over her face and end it. Unfortunately, the law has yet to agree.

Should add that no amount of physical infirmity would ever strip someone of their humanness.
And people with severe learning disabilities ?

Depends how severe but in general I don't think life should be prolonged or perpetuated when a reasoned judgement is that it isn't worth living. That's a judgement we make of other animals all the time so I don't see why we shouldn't extend it to humans.

In the case of severe mental and physical disabilities discovered before birth then I believe the case for termination should be overwhelmingly.

That may seem callous but my mother's situation tells me that our current attitude to 'life' is untenable.

So I’m bringing this here - in an attempt to keep things civil. I respect Colin Smith’s distress about his mother’s condition. But I am deeply concerned about any perspective that so devalues the life of people with disabilities. And any perspective that labels Homo sapiens sapient any stage of thei life as less than human.]]>
"Does God hate gays" book recommendations https://forums.shipoffools.com/discussion/1784/does-god-hate-gays-book-recommendations Wed, 07 Aug 2019 19:49:36 +0000 Epiphanies System 1784@/discussions Homosexuality.]]> Transgender https://forums.shipoffools.com/discussion/690/transgender Sun, 24 Jun 2018 18:54:56 +0000 Epiphanies NOprophet_NØprofit 690@/discussions
  • fully affirming approach - someone says they are trans and it is accepted and supported without any or much question, and doctors who are in to this start on hormones and easily and quickly refer to surgery.
  • a watchful waiting approach - someone says they are trans and people are supportive, say go slowly, and there is a bit of inquiry and scepticism
  • sceptical approach - see trans as part of a development process is an open society which has made it possible to question gender identity
  • mental health approach - sees gender questioning and trans as part of a mental illness issue where depression and other mood problems use trans and gender as solutions, much like people use substance abuse or self harm to deal with feelings

  • We seem to be dealing with the fully affirming 1st approach, and the mental health 4th approach in my list. I've developed the understanding that the fully affirming approach is too much, that there is merit to the mental health approach, and that the 2nd approach is probably best.

    I'm also not finding myself agreeing that gender and biological sex are fully different. Obviously for the vast majority, they are coincident. So the the norm is they are the same. That's not necessarily to judge abnormal when they are different, but to say that they usually (normatively) coincide.

    I found this article thoughtfully written:
    When Children Say They’re Trans. Hormones? Surgery? The choices are fraught—and there are no easy answers
    (The Atlantic).]]>
    Homosexuality https://forums.shipoffools.com/discussion/196/homosexuality Mon, 26 Feb 2018 18:20:34 +0000 Epiphanies Barnabas62 196@/discussions Here is a link to the Homosexuality and Christianity thread on the old website.

    Feel free to add to this thread or create a new thread on a subset of this topic]]>
    The Role of Women in Church and Households https://forums.shipoffools.com/discussion/195/the-role-of-women-in-church-and-households Mon, 26 Feb 2018 18:16:44 +0000 Epiphanies Barnabas62 195@/discussions Here is a link to the "Priestly Genitalia etc" thread on the old website.

    Feel free to add to this thread or start a new thread on a subset of the topic.]]>
    Epiphanies Guidelines https://forums.shipoffools.com/discussion/1766/epiphanies-guidelines Sun, 04 Aug 2019 18:37:41 +0000 Epiphanies Marvin the Martian 1766@/discussions
    1. This forum is for topics where issues and identity significantly overlap, plus threads moved from other forums if the Crew think this is appropriate.

    2. This forum is for serious discussion of these topics and will be allowed to reflect all widely held views, even if they are considered offensive by some. It is not intended to be an echo chamber, nor yet a pillory. Purgatory Guidelines also apply.

    3. This forum will be more closely hosted than the rest of the Ship. For example: Some phrases or sources may be ruled off limits on a particular thread as they are seen as unhelpful. Circular discussions may be closed. Tangents redirected. This change doesn't alter the other forums - hosting will still be light in Purgatory, Kerygmania will still be for discussion of specific passages and themes and explicitly not for discussion of inerrancy/infallibility, etc.

    4. Shipmates are encouraged to PM a Host about material that is, in their opinion, of dubious provenance or from overly partisan sources.

    5. Thread titles need to be clear so people know exactly what they’re getting into. Unclear thread titles will be amended.

    6. Your Hosts here are @Barnabas62, @Louise, and @Gwai. ]]>
    Abortion https://forums.shipoffools.com/discussion/194/abortion Mon, 26 Feb 2018 18:11:46 +0000 Epiphanies Barnabas62 194@/discussions Here is a link to the "Cleft Lip etc" thread on the old website.

    Feel free to add to this thread or create a new thread on a subset of the topic. ]]>