Friday, 1 May 2015

Battlefront's Berlin book lists

Hi folks, I downloaded the newest Wargames Illustrated today, and it has some details on the upcoming Berlin book for late war Soviet and German lists - I thought it would be worth sharing for those of you who don't buy WI.

Image from the Flames of War website.
Berlin will have 3 Soviet lists:

- Hero Gvardeyskiy Tyazhelyy Tankovy Polk (Hero Guards Heavy Tank Regiment). Representing the Guards heavy tanks. Units are smaller but have 'gained much expenience' and support platoons have been 'combed for replacements for tank crews'. The IS2 obr 1944 (FA 11) makes an appearance. No mention is made of ratings.

By the sounds of it, this list will be a small number of heavy tanks with limited support. To coincide with the release, new plastics will be coming for the IS2 and ISU heavy assault guns, Soviet infantry and guns.

- Hero Tyazhelyy Samokhodno-artillyeriyskiy Polk (Hero Heavy Self-propelled Artillery Regiment). ISU-122 and ISU-152 units that are 'wiser but more skillful' and 'casualties have left their mark'.

Again, by the sounds of it a higher rating but small force with potentially limited support choices.

- Hero Strelkovy Polk (Hero Rifle Regiment). These infantry lists are based on Regiments rather than Battalions due to the casualties preceding the attack on Berlin. Featuring Strelkovy Battalions as combat platoons - these will be smaller 'more compact' units with 13 Rifle/MG teams plus options HMG and Panzerfausts.

Post Publishing Edit: The advert in WI states that the Rifle Regiment has Hero, Guards and Red Army options, including options to field customisable specialist street fighting groups.

New Corps support has 160mm obr 1943 Heavy Mortars, Hero Inzhenerno-Saperniy (Fearless Vets) and Fearless Vet Tank Destruction Company.

All three lists benefit from the Hero special rules, and there is mention of some other rules about the infantry list having a Red Banner. This makes them always attack, gives the unit carrying it Quality of Quantity and means that if the Banner is within 4" of an enemy objective the game does not end if they lose their own objectives. If the Soviets win with the banner on an objective they get +1 vp and the opponent -1 vp. If the soviet player loses this is reversed.

The German list (yes, just one list) seems a bit different from any other FoW lists. The article mentions troops from: Wehrmacht (army, navy and airforce), the Waffen SS, Volkssturm, Hitlerjugend, Polizei and RAD. Lists are made up of a combination of these - or a focus on one or two types of troops. These troops can have different ratings and are not treated as allies. It mentions that these troops can vary from Fearless Veteran to Reluctant Conscript troops. Fearless and Confident troops have 'enjoy the war'. Support includes fortifications and the usual range of big cats.

The Waffentrager (8.8cm) is mentioned, as is the Kleinpanzer Wanze or Bedbug tank hunter (demolition carriers with banks of Panzerschreck rocket launchers).

The article also mentions more intelligence briefings will be released for the digital app and Forces of War covering troops of the Berlin offensives and the fighting outside the city. So expect more super dooper German lists that let you play with all your Fearless Vet toys.

The book sounds interesting but it is another example of where the Early/Mid/Late split falls down. These really are Late Late war - fielding Normandy Ally lists against these forces seems a little... suicidal? I understand that there is always a power creep - and arguable there is a historical reason for this. But there still seems to be so few interesting Late Late war western allied lists, and those that exist seem focused around specific equipment (the Comet and Perishing). The British Rifle list in Nachtjager was just so generic...

Hopefully this was useful - and please excuse my own ramblings!


  1. The German list sounds very fun with so much variety it could be tailored to anyone's LW collection.

    Not know much about Soviet anythings - are the lists sounding that much of a difference from Desperate Measures Heroes lists?

    But yeah... Nachtjager's Digital lists on the main were gimmicky or thoroughly bland. The SAS Jeep lists are about the most fun of the bunch I think.

    1. I shouldn't moan, but from a western allied perspective it was a very interesting time in the war, with lots of new kit and units in combat for long enough to have accumulated lots of their own 'non standard' orbats and organisations. But no, generic lists with a couple of interesting goofy ones thrown in. And the main focus on German units with equipment they never used. I've not seen the Desperate Measures lists but the way the article was written the 'hero' part must be pre-existing?

  2. Thanks for the insights Jamie. I'm in full agreement about "late, late war". I'd almost be tempted to break the whole war down into annual periods. I wonder if the Soviets will actually get to be Veterans at last, or just get lots of little bonuses they never get to use because they've been shot on a 3+ and killed?

    1. Your welcome Paul, I'm glad so many people have already found my post useful already.


    Dear lord. Vote with your vallet already. There is no one forcing you to buy a product you don't like. Worst part about Flames of War isn't the perceived power creep, it is the players who cannot switch to a system they'd enjoy more and stick around bitching about every new release not catering to them instead.

    1. This comment has been removed by the author.

    2. I thought I had replied to this, but my phone must not have published my comment.

      To clarify, this isn't a product I will be buying, because I don't collect either Germans or Russians. If and when I do collect some Germans as an opposition force, it will be a specific Heer unit from August 1944. I also (which I do mention quite a bit elsewhere on my blog) play Battlegroup Overlord. But I consider Flames of War to be a good game when played with friends and I enjoy both games for their various merits. I just dislike the coverage certain more 'commercially viable' factions get at the expense of others.

    3. Wow - brave poster couldn't even bother posting their name along with their rude comment. Sod.

  4. If, like me, you don't play tournaments and often ignore points the balance between late and late late forces is irrelevant. The new books appear to capture the periods covered. Soviets get better equipment and are at least trained but are running out of bodies. Germans have fewer CV and FV troops, small but powerful armor, and junk troops. British changes are in finally getting a decent tank, APDS for their 17 pounders and 6 pounders (6 pdr should have APDS AT 11 in Normandy withe HE and 17 pdr HE by 1945. 17 pdr includes 77mm) . Aside from RAM Kangaroo Brit infantry should be more expensive and armor and artillery cheaper. US infantry shortage in 45 but better troops, 76mm Jumbo Sherman and up-armored Shermans in 1945. Add in a few M26, M24, napalm for air support, and veteran US troops. Lists always armor heavy and short artillery, but most WW2 miniature games are. (US infantry division has 3 x Rgt each 3 Inf Bn each 3 x Rifle Coy or 27 infantry companies supported by 17 light and 54 medium tanks and 36 GMC AT guns. How many tanks support your US Inf coy? US Inf Div has 36 x 105mm and 12 x 15mm FH in support plus attached artillery battalions. You get 2 x 4 FH if lucky. Gotta go with Anonymous. For a game pretty good. Don't think the purpose of the game should be to give you an invincible tournament army. This isn't supposed to be a GW tournament. Early War - Mid-War - Late War. By 1945 German Army should be a loser.

  5. Hi Mike,

    Thanks for the comment. Again, I'd refer you to my reply to A-nun-a-mouse above. I don't play tournies and the games I play are purely friendlies at a club where we tend to be quite forgiving with lists and the likes. However, there is a difference in official lists for FoW - both number and focus. With the Germans being top of the table.

    I had typed a massive wall of text about this, but it's not worth causing argument's with, so I'll leave it at that.

    By the way, i see your 48 guns per Division and raise you 72 per British Infantry Division - plus AGRA's and Mortars!

  6. You forgot the BB and Monitors off shore. 30 min and British FOO called in 700 guns on one target in Normandy. FOW isn't set up, on purpose, to provide the actual extensive artillery support the Western Allies and Russians could provide except for the Pre-Attack Bombardment rule. We also play with more armor than infantry units although infantry units were the primary ground units in the war. It is a game not a simulation. Just being set up with a point system to "equalize" the forces on both sides shows that. Attacker always wants superiority at point of attack.

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