The Times – November 3, 2007
– Ginny Dougary

Robert Redford was the screen heart-throb of his generation, but he never quite played the Hollywood game. Back in the directorâ€™s chair, he talks about being an outsider, his looks and why he is in mourning for his country

Itâ€™s a measure of Robert Redfordâ€™s enduring appeal, even at the grand age of 70, that when he says, â€œIâ€™m all yoursâ€, just for a fraction of a second, a tiny bit of you wishes it were true. In truth, despite an occasional dimpled grin â€“ when you catch a flicker of the old Redford screen charisma that made your 13-year-old heart pound in Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid â€“ and surprisingly gentle manners, he has neither the playfulness nor the hint of danger of the natural-born flirt.

This should be music to his ears, if Redford is to be believed, since the poor man has spent decades trying to be taken seriously, only to have his good looks stand in the way. When he appeared on the scene, journalists of both sexes drooled. A Newsweek profile by a male writer is a classic of the type, launching into his â€œgorgeousnessâ€ thus: â€œThe head is classically shaped, the features chiseled to an all-American handsomeness, the body athletically muscledâ€¦â€ Not to be outdone by this homo-erotic rhapsody, the women writers swooned: â€œHe gives you the feeling that even his sweat would smell goodâ€, and raved about his â€œcoolâ€ and â€œsexual arrogance that is far more fetching than any amount of sweet talkâ€.

What is more interesting, apart from the quaint gush of these early pieces, is to see how consistent Redford has been from his earliest interviews in the Sixties and Seventies about the issues that he is known for now: anti-Hollywood, pro-environment, concerned about youth apathy, questioning of the government and sceptical about politicians in general, as well as the power of corporations. He has always been protective of his privacy and had periods of withdrawal from work â€“ even at the height of his fame â€“ to travel around Europe or do his own thing.

Way back in 1970, a year after he shot to fame as the Sundance Kid, Redford vented his frustration about Hollywood to a young Derek Malcolm: â€œYou canâ€™t run an art form like a business any more and theyâ€™re still trying to. Films to them are just like vacuum cleaners or refrigerators. The approach sickens me.â€

Not content to bitch from the sidelines, Redford founded the non-profit-making Sundance Institute in 1981 â€“ using his own land and property in Utah â€“ to support emerging screenwriters, directors, composers and producers who work alongside established names to craft their skills and develop their projects. To this was added the now internationally famous Sundance Film Festival which, to its creatorâ€™s evident discomfort, has become so successful it has assumed the mantle of the Cannes of America, with all the trashy commercialism that entails.

This is anathema to Redford, whose rueful complaint to me is: â€œWhat happened was the success of it brought the media, and then the merchants came and the stars cameâ€¦ Look, when Paris Hilton comes to the festival, sheâ€™s coming to the parties. Weâ€™re doing the same that we always have, but then the brand names come to take advantage of the festival and they throw parties to promote their brands and they say, â€˜Come and weâ€™ll give you a free coat or a free perfume or weâ€™ll take your photo.â€™ I canâ€™t control it because itâ€™s a free country â€“ thatâ€™s the reality and it is ironic. But I donâ€™t worry about our mission as long as we stay true, and the Lab is non-profit and thatâ€™s the purest thing about Sundance.â€

Naturally, with Sundanceâ€™s success, come the knockers. A counter-festival, Slamdance, established itself in Utah in the Nineties to show the films the organisers believe Redford has turned his back on â€“ but thereâ€™s no evidence that his vision has been diluted. He may be attracted to the likes of The Horse Whisperer, which appeals to his romanticism about the American landscape he fights to protect, his love of horses and his sadness about the dying ranch culture of the West, but the films that have come through his â€œLabâ€ or have been showcased at the festival are very different and include Pulp Fiction, Sex, Lies and Videotape (the director, Steven Soderbergh, and Redford have since fallen out), Boys Donâ€™t Cry, Orlando, The Blair Witch Project, Memento and Little Miss Sunshine.

Redford has worked equally hard on environmental issues, both publically and behind the scenes, and has a slew of awards in recognition of his contribution. The Utah home he built himself almost three decades ago was fitted with solar panels â€“ visitors have commented on its rather spartan decor â€“ long before it was fashionable to be green. He successfully campaigned against a huge power station being built between five national parks and disgruntled locals â€“ Utah is a Republican stronghold â€“ responded by burning an effigy of the star. Most unglamorously, he took on the role of the local sewerage commissioner with a mission to transform the area into an independent municipality with its own produce and energy resources.

For his pains â€“ and even his detractors could hardly accuse the man of not backing up his words with action â€“ Redford is hammered for being earnest or worthy, impatient, arrogant, humourless, a control freak and so on. One of the biggest and legitimate complaints against him is that he is always late. He once kept a Sunday Times journalist waiting seven hours, after she had made the epic trek to Sundance. Paul Newman, his co-star on Butchâ€¦ and The Sting, presented him with a needlepoint runner stitched by Joanne Woodward (Mrs Newman) that read: â€œPunctuality is the courtesy of kings.â€

This was a revealing rebuke since it suggests â€“ something one can glean from the early cuts when the actor was a bit more forthcoming â€“ that Redfordâ€™s early chippiness about being born on the wrong side of the tracks has prompted grandstanding posturising to demonstrate that heâ€™s as important, if not more so, than the Hollywood royalty he had joined. Newman, who is a friend, was gently trying to point out that such behaviour is not classy.

I would have liked to have asked Redford about his punctuality problem, but our interview, of course, was cut short by his late arrival. However, I should add here, it was the star himself who dared to defy the publicity martinets by insisting that he make up the extra 15 minutes in his own lunch hour. This was gracious of him and also provoked an unexpected conspiratorial mirth between the interviewer and interviewee. â€œIâ€™m here to serve,â€ he kept saying plaintively, and moaned that, â€œThey have me jammed to the gills.â€

Redford describes himself as coming from â€œa lower-working-class family. My dad was a milkman and supported us with no money. We didnâ€™t have anything. I grew up in a Mexican neighbourhood [Santa Monica, 12 miles from Hollywood, known as â€œthe home of the homelessâ€] where you had to provide your own entertainment. I was blessed that I was athletic and so could do sports.â€

In one of his earliest interviews, he confessed that, â€œSometimes Iâ€™d break into those big houses in Bel-Air just to look around and I thought, â€˜What have they done to deserve all this?â€™ I was always good at tennis and I took great pleasure in beating the rich kids.â€

His education was not good, but one teacher discovered that her problem pupil had a surprisingly creative bent. â€œI started drawing because there was nothing else to do,â€ he says. â€œIf my parents went somewhere on a visit, they would take me along because they couldnâ€™t afford a babysitter. So Iâ€™d sit in the corner and pick up a pencil and draw things. And then in class, I would be distracted and looking out the window all the time, or I would draw instead of doing an assignment.â€

When he was nine or ten, the teacher who had started out by punishing him â€“ insisting that he draw a picture once a week and describe what it was about to the class â€“ began to realise, â€œâ€˜Wait a minute. Heâ€™s telling a story and heâ€™s pretty good.â€™ I loved hearing and telling stories and thatâ€™s the way I learned â€“ through stories.â€

The rest of his school years Redford describes as â€œa disasterâ€. He was always in trouble, going off the rails and drinking too much. He believes there is a connection between the Celts â€“ he is Scottish and Irish on both sides of the family â€“ and boozing, and says that some members of his family, although not his parents, had problems with alcohol. He managed to win a baseball scholarship to Colorado University, but was kicked out because of his drunkeness.

Of all the different characters he has played â€“ and critics complain that they tend to be a one-note samba, detached and unknowable, or perhaps played that way, much like his reputation off screen â€“ the Sundance outlaw is the one who, Redford says, feels closest to his own skin. He was originally up for the part of Butch Cassidy but persuaded the director, George Roy Hill, that, â€œI can identify with that guy [the Kid] a lot more because of my earlier life, and he got interested in that because weâ€™re both Irish and so onâ€¦â€ So the roles were swapped, leaving Newman in the lighter part and Redford as the brooding, more intense foil.

As a bleached-haired Californian surfie teenager, part of a gang of semi-delinquents, Redford grew up despising actors â€“ referring to them as â€œsissy boysâ€ â€“ and the whole Hollywood scene. On one occasion, he and his older half-brother broke into one of the studio lots and trashed the place. Even at this long remove, when he has achieved so much, Redford still identifies himself with alluring neâ€™er-do-wells, particularly if they have a death wish â€“ such as the beautiful but doomed alcoholic younger brother, Paul (played by Brad Pitt looking uncannily like the young Redford) in A River Runs Through It, which Redford directed in 2002.

Perhaps this connection with the wayward rebel â€“ who enjoys a certain reckless freedom â€“ also explains his ambivalence about the acting world and made him more determined to define himself in other ways. He tells journalists that he is not of a psychological disposition, though this seems a convenient way of sidestepping awkward territory and may be a legacy of his upbringing â€“ â€œWe never trusted words much in my household.â€ Yet, he did see a therapist in the Eighties (who promptly betrayed him by selling his story to the press) when his long marriage to Lola Van Wagenen, mother of their three children, finally came to an end.

His real education began, he says, when he came to Europe in the late Fifties. This flight from America, when Redford was 18, followed the death of his mother. â€œI wanted to get out in the world and experience other cultures and histories and people,â€ he says. â€œI wanted to be an artist, so I went to France and Italy and I was living a very low life, you know, in a bohemian area. But what got me was that all the students I engaged with â€“ whether they were artists or medical students â€“ were all extremely political. It was the de Gaulle era, you know, and the time of the Algerian crisis.

â€œThey were asking me questions and I was humiliated because I didnâ€™t know the answers. I was just absolutely ashamed. So I made it a point to begin to look at my country but from another countryâ€™s point of view â€“ because in California youâ€™re given a very comfortable view about things. And I realised that I had a high regard for this other point of view because it was very intelligent and very different. So I began to put all these together and when I came back, a year and a half later, I schooled myself on what my country was doing and how I felt about it.â€


He landed in New York, enrolled in art school and, â€œthrough a series of serendipitous turnsâ€, ended up at drama school at the same time, supported by his wife, and acting was the career that took hold. (It would seem ill-advised, particularly since the Redfords had separated for a good ten years before the press got hold of the story, to comment on his current status. But, with no evidence to the contrary, we must assume he is still with Sibylle Szaggars, a German painter, who has been his partner since 1996.)

Redfordâ€™s first roles were on Broadway, where he created something of a stir as the male lead in Neil Simonâ€™s light comedy Barefoot in the Park in 1963, directed by Mike Nichols. It won a Tony Award (but not for Redford) and ran for 1,530 performances, which appears to have put the actor off a career in theatre for life. And then, in 1969, came his big breakthrough, as the Sundance Kid, at the un-Kid-like age of 32.

I have the impression that Redford has a low boredom threshold, as well as a short attention span, which may explain why he turned his back on theatre once his film career took off. He says that he loves going to see plays â€“ of course, he saw David Hareâ€™s Stuff Happens about the build-up to the Iraq war â€“ but he agrees that he is unsuited to the daily routine of performing on the stage.

â€œYou are partly very right. Itâ€™s not that I have a short attention span but I do have a low boredom threshold. For me, the joy of acting was in the spontaneity of expressing yourself â€“ and being part of what makes a play â€˜happenâ€™ is pretty exciting â€“ but after nine months of doing the same thing every nightâ€¦ you just want it to move to a new place,â€ he says.

Redford is sensitive to criticism about his acting and, as ever, believes that his appearance has prevented critics from an accurate appraisal of his performances. Itâ€™s difficult to know how to respond to his angst about his looks, particularly when one reads about his insistence on photographs being touched up. Even as far back as 1973, The Way We Were, in which he co-starred with Barbra Streisand, became known as â€œthe Battle of the Close-Upsâ€ because both actors reputedly competed to be shot from the most flattering angle. (Redford, who had apparently successfully negotiated to be paid more than La Streisand, allegedly won.)

One has to ask why Redford would be so concerned about protecting his image if he genuinely believed that it has been an obstacle to him being taken seriously. There has been a certain amount of speculation about whether he has had any â€œworkâ€ done on his face, particularly as he has lambasted those who have submitted to the knife. I found one reference to his eyes having been operated on â€œon medical groundsâ€ â€“ whatever the reason, for a septuagenrian he certainly does have a strikingly open, unlined gaze. But one can equally imagine that Redford would find it demeaning, â€œsissyâ€ even, to stoop to any surgical enhancement.

He tells me that he still gets drooled over: â€œEven today. It happened last week when we were on tour. I keep thinking, and I mean this when I say it, when do we get past this? I canâ€™t speak for Europe but certainly in my country, thereâ€™s an obsession with youth. People trying to stay young and facelifting and all that, which I havenâ€™t done. I keep thinking that Iâ€™ll grow out of being labelled, you know. I just donâ€™t understand it.â€

Face to face, it is a shock to see quite how freckly and â€œgingerâ€ Redford is. Redheads donâ€™t suffer the same stigma in the States as they do in this country, and we have a funny moment when my interviewee attempts to get to grips with the point Iâ€™m endeavouring to make. â€œBullet?â€ he asks. No, bullied. â€œBullied? Oh, really? Are you being serious? Why?â€ Nevertheless, although Redford was never exactly tormented on account of his colouring, â€œWhen I was a little kid, I had red hair and freckles and I was certainly teased, yeah, yeah â€“ â€˜Hey, Red! Hey, Red!â€™â€ he taunts.

Surely it was quite pleasant to discover that you were so appealing to the opposite sex. â€œAbsolutely it was,â€ he admits. â€œI wouldnâ€™t say it was a shock but it was a surprise and it was something I could enjoy for a period of time. But then it got out of hand and I began to see the dark side of it. Particularly since Iâ€™d grown up in Los Angeles and was not enamoured of Hollywood.â€

He no longer turns up in cowboy gear â€“ partly because of his age but also, perhaps, because of the way that image has been tainted by Bush in his off-duty garb and on-message rhetoric (â€œWeâ€™re gonna get them bad guys!â€). Still, Redford wears his shirt a little like medallion man, unbuttoned to his chest, revealing a sparse-ish crop of carroty hair. When I tell him that the elderly taxi driver who dropped me off said that he hated Robert Redford â€œbecause of the way he looks compared to the way I lookâ€, the actor says: â€œIâ€™ve gotten a lot of that but when you get it from the critics, itâ€™s really rough. You know, they resent you because of your physical self and you say, â€˜Would you not judge me for that, please? Would you please judge the performance?â€™â€

Dick Cavett, Americaâ€™s veteran chatshow host, once described Redford as having â€œa withheld quality that makes the viewer come to himâ€. It is this reticence, some might call it subtlety, that has laid the actor open to accusations that his range is limited, as though he were too buttoned down, too afraid of being unmanly, to show overt emotion. One of his directors said that he felt Redford was a natural character actor encased in the body of a matinÃ©e idol. He says that when he started out as an actor, â€œI played all kinds of parts. I played killers and rapists and deranged people and they were great fun as an actor because there was variety. But no one knows that except the people who watch old TV series like Naked City and The Twilight Zone.â€

Whatever his reasoning, apart from an early role when he agreed to play the part of a bi-sexual reprobate at a time when plenty of Hollywood actors would have declined, Redford seems to have settled for roles which are safely within his comfort zone â€“ restricting his risk-taking for the higher ground.



Well, it may have its flaws â€“ as commentators have already noted â€“ but I would say that it is essential viewing, particularly for American audiences. The story unfolds in real time, during the course of a single day, and explores many of the issues that are dear to Redfordâ€™s heart via three separate strands â€“ the role of the media (how, in the present climate, can it step away from being the Governmentâ€™s propaganda machine?), the politiciansâ€™ justification of the War on Terror, and the losing battle of educators (Redford plays the anguished professor) to prevent students retreating into a torpor of cynical lassitude because they feel helpless to effect change.

The power of the film is the juxtaposition of two injured soldiers â€“ former students of the professor â€“ waiting to be killed by the Taleban on the snowy mountains of Afghanistan, while in the safety of lecture rooms and living rooms and White House offices, politicians, professors and students, reporters and editors, argue about how to end this war. The scenes between Meryl Streep as the veteran journalist and Tom Cruise as the ambitious senator are as dazzling as they are daunting, with the senator saying: â€œYou sold the war, now you have to help sell the solution.â€

You just have to look at the level of debate â€“ so ranting and knee-jerking and, frankly, moronic â€“ in response to Lions for Lambs on the website of Variety, Americaâ€™s newspaper for the entertainment industry, to see what Redford is up against and why he feels the need to make such a film.

There may be a sense in which Middle America could feel betrayed by Redford â€“ how could the denim-clad cowboy and lover of the great open plains be such an unpatriotic turncoat? But despite his lack of polish and uneasy way with words, since that early â€œlowlifeâ€ European education, Redford has remained true to what he holds dear about America. It is only now, as he enters the last chapters of his life, that he feels his country has lost its way.

He is not at all optimistic about the future: â€œThe bottom line has taken over everything, including journalism. Itâ€™s surprising, frankly, that the studios would take a chance on this film. There has been so much damage to our country that itâ€™s going to take a long, long time to pull ourselves out of it.â€

Can you see it happening in your lifetime? â€œAnythingâ€™s possible,â€ he says. â€œItâ€™s just that thereâ€™s so much damage and thereâ€™s such a negative impression of America throughout the world and for these people to be talking about democracy while practising policies that are so undemocraticâ€¦â€

Does he feel angry? â€œYou know, what I canâ€™t forget or forgive is that we were asked to give up our freedoms and let them do what they needed to [after 9/11] and we zipped our lips and gave up challenging the election because they had a difficult job. And it sure was good timing for them.

â€œAnd we gave up criticising the administration and our president, and we all saluted and marched in lock step in support, only to be lied to and cheated and send young people in harmâ€™s way and unnecessarily risk losing their lives. That made me angry. And now Iâ€™m past anger and in a state of mourning.

â€œFreedom of opinion, freedom of debate and dissent, thatâ€™s what democracy means, but itâ€™s all been shut down now and itâ€™s â€˜If youâ€™re not with us, youâ€™re against us,â€™ and we donâ€™t even have to talk about how dangerous that is and where that leads if itâ€™s not corrected. And I know that [with this film] Iâ€™m probably not going to change anybodyâ€™s opinion but at least as an artist I can try to dramatise what my feelings are about.â€


Lions for Lambs opens nationwide on November 9