Notes and Queries, Number 233, April 15, 1854
Author: Various
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No. 233.] SATURDAY, APRIL 15. 1854. [Price Fourpence. Stamped Edition 5d.

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NOTES:— Page Palindrome Verses 343 Children crying at their Birth 343 Unpublished Letter of Lord Nelson, by E. G. Bass 344

FOLK LORE:—Devonshire Superstitions—Quacks—Burning a Tooth with Salt 344 Parallel Passages, by H. L. Temple, Cuthbert Bede, &c. 345

MINOR NOTES:—Vallancey's Green Book—Herrings—Byron and Rochefoucauld—"Abscond"—Garlands, Broadsheets, &c.— Life-belts—Turkey and Russia—"Verbatim et literatim" 347

QUERIES:— Prints of London before the Great Fire 348 Battle of Otterburn, by J. S. Warden 348 De Beauvoir Pedigree, by T. R. Potter 349

MINOR QUERIES:—Dog-whippers: Frankincense—Atchievement in Yorkshire: Lipyeatt Family—"Waestart"—Rebellion of 1715— "Athenian Sport"—Gutta Percha made soluble—Arms of Anthony Kitchen—Griesbach Arms—Postage System of the Romans—Three Crowns and Sugar-loaf—Helen MacGregor—Francis Grose the Antiquary—"King of Kings:" Bishop Andrews' Sermons—Scroope Family—Harrison the Regicide: Lowle—"Chair" or "Char"— Aches—Leeming Hall—Caricature; a Canterbury Tale—Perpetual Curates not represented in Convocation—Dr. Whichcote and Dorothy Jordan—Moral Philosophy—Shelley's "Prometheus Unbound"—Turkish Language 349

MINOR QUERIES WITH ANSWERS:—Illustrated Bible of 1527— Heraldic Query—Richard de Sancto Victorie—St. Blase 352

REPLIES:— Leicester as Ranger of Snowdon 353 Inman Family, by T. Hughes 353 Robert Dudley, Earl of Leicester, by Dr. E. F. Rimbault 354 Hardman's Account of Waterloo 355 Churches in "Domesday Book," by Wm. Dobson 355 Memoirs of Grammont, by W. H. Lammin 356 Celtic and Latin Languages 356

PHOTOGRAPHIC CORRESPONDENCE:—Box Sawdust for Collodion— Proportions of Chlorides and Silver—Photographic Copies of Rembrandt—Coloured Photographs 358

REPLIES TO MINOR QUERIES:—Dr. Eleazar Duncon—Christian Names—Abigail—"Begging the question"—Russian Emperors— Garble—Electric Telegraph—Butler's "Lives of the Saints"— Anticipatory Use of the Cross—The Marquis of Granby, &c. 359

MISCELLANEOUS:— Books and Odd Volumes wanted 362 Notices to Correspondents 362

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BOEOTICUS inquires (Vol. vi., p 209.) whence comes the line—

"Roma tibi subito motibus ibit amor."

In p. 352. of the same volume W. W. T. (quoting from D'Israeli's Curiosities of Literature a passage which supplies the hexameter completing the distich, and attributes the verses to Sidonius Apollinaris) asks where may be found a legend which represents the two lines to have formed part of a dialogue between the fiend, under the form of a mule, and a monk, who was his rider. B. H. C., at p. 521. of the same volume, sends a passage from the Dictionnaire Litteraire, giving the complete distich:

"Signa te, signa, temere me tangis et angis. Roma tibi subito motibus ibit amor,"

and attributing it to the devil, but without supplying any more authentic parentage for the lines. The following Note will contribute a fact or two to the investigation of the subject; but I shall be obliged to conclude by reiterating the original Query of BOEOTICUS, Who was the real author of the lines?

In a little work entitled A Summer in Brittany, published by me in 1840, may be found (at p. 99. of vol. i.) a legend, which relates how one Jean Patye, canon of Cambremer, in the chapter of Bayeux, rode the devil to Rome, for the purpose of there chanting the epistle at the midnight mass at Christmas, according to the tenor of an ancient bond, which obliged the chapter to send one of their number yearly to Rome for that purpose. This story I met with in a little volume, entitled Contes populaires, Prejuges, Patois, Proverbes de l'Arrondissement de Bayeux, recueillis et publies, par F. Pluquet, the frontispiece of which consists of a sufficiently graphic representation of the worthy canon's feat. Pluquet concludes his narrative by stating that—

"Etienne Tabourot dans ses Bigarrures, publiees sous le nom du Seigneur des Accords, rapporte que c'est a Saint Antide que le diable, qui le portait a Rome sur son dos, adresse le distique latin dont il est question ci-dessus."

It should seem that this trick of carrying people to Rome was attributed to the devil, by those conversant with his habits, in other centuries besides the nineteenth.

I have not here the means of looking at the work to which Pluquet refers; but if any of your correspondents, who live in more bookish lands than this, will do so, they may perchance obtain some clue to the original authorship of the lines; for in Sidonius Apollinaris I cannot find them. The only edition of his works to which I have the means of referring is the quarto of Adrien Perrier, Paris, 1609. Among the verses contained in that volume, I think I can assert that the lines in question are not. We all know that the worthy author of the Curiosities of Literature cannot be much depended upon for accuracy.

Once again, then, Who was the author of this specimen, perhaps the most perfect extant, of palindromic absurdity?

T. A. T.


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"When I was born, I drew in the common air, and fell upon the earth, which is of like nature, and the first voice which I uttered was crying, as all others do."—Wisd. vii. 3.

"Tum porro Puer, ut saevis projectus ab undis Navita, nudus, humi jacet, Infans, indigus omni Vitali auxilio; cum primum in luminis oras Nixibus ex alvo matris natura profudit: Vagituque locum lugubri complet, ut aequum est, Cui tantum in vita restet transire malorum." Lucret. De Rer. Nat., v. 223.

For the benefit of the lady-readers of "N. & Q." I subjoin a translation of these beautiful lines of Lucretius:

"The infant, as soon as Nature with great pangs of travail hath sent it forth from the womb of its mother into the regions of light, lies, like a sailor cast out from the waves, naked upon the earth in utter want and helplessness; and fills every place around with mournful wailings and piteous lamentation, as is natural for one who has so many ills of life in store for him, so many evils which he must pass through and suffer."

"Thou must be patient: we came crying hither; Thou know'st, the first time that we smell the air, We wawle and cry— When we are born, we cry that we are come To this great stage of fools."—Shakspeare's Lear.

"Who remindeth me of the sins of my infancy? 'For in Thy sight none is pure from sin, not even the infant whose life is but a day upon the earth.' (Job xxv. 4.) Who remindeth me? Doth not each little infant, in whom I see what of myself I remember not? What then was my sin? Was it that I hung upon the breast and cried?"—St. Austin, Confess., lib. i. 7.

"For man's sake it should seeme that Nature made and produced all other creatures besides; though this great favour of hers, so bountifull and beneficiall in that respect, hath cost them full deere. Insomuch as it is hard to judge, whether in so doing she hath done the part of a kind mother, or a hard and cruell stepdame. For first and foremost, of all other living creatures, man she hath brought forth all naked, and cloathed him with the good and riches of others. To all the rest she hath given sufficient to clad them everie {344} one according to their kind; as namely shells, cods, hard hides, prickes, shagge, bristles, haire, downe, feathers, quils, skailes, and fleeces of wool. The verie trunkes and stemmes of trees and plants, shee hath defended with bark and rind, yea, and the same sometime double against the injuries both of heat and cold: man alone, poore wretch, she hath laid all naked upon the bare earth, even on his birth-day, to cry and wraule presently from the very first houre that he is borne into this world: in suche sort as, among so many living creatures, there is none subject to shed teares and weepe like him. And verily to no babe or infant is it given once to laugh before he be fortie daies old, and that is counted verie early and with the soonest.... The child of man thus untowardly borne, and who another day is to rule and command all other, loe how he lyeth bound hand and foot, weeping and crying, and beginning his life with miserie, as if he were to make amends and satisfaction by his punishment unto Nature, for this onely fault and trespass, that he is borne alive."—Plinie's Naturall Historie, by Phil. Holland, Lond. 1601, fol., intr. to b. vii.

The following queries are extracted from Sir Thomas Browne's "Common-place Books," Aristotle, Lib. Animal.:

"Whether till after forty days children, though they cry, weep not; or, as Scaliger expresseth it, 'Vagiunt sed oculis siccis.'

"Whether they laugh not upon tickling?

"Why, though some children have been heard to cry in the womb, yet so few cry at their birth, though their heads be out of the womb?"—Bohn's ed. iii. 358.

Thompson follows Pliny, and says that man is "taught alone to weep" ("Spring," 350.); but—not to speak of the

"Cruel crafty crocodile, Which, in false grief hiding his harmful guile, Doth weep full sore and sheddeth tender tears,"

as Spenser sings—the camel weeps when over-loaded, and the deer when chased sobs piteously. Thompson himself in a passage he has stolen from Shakspeare, makes the stag weep:

——"he stands at bay; The big round tears run down his dappled face; He groans in anguish."—Autumn, 452.

"Steller relates this of the Phoca Ursina, Pallas of the camel, and Humboldt of a small American monkey."—Laurence On Man, Lond. 1844, p. 161.

Risibility, and a sense of the ridiculous, is generally considered to be the property of man, though Le Cat states that he has seen a chimpanzee laugh.

The notion with regard to a child crying at baptism has been already touched on in these pages, Vol. vi., p. 601.; Vol. vii., p. 96.

Grose (quoted in Brand) tells us there is a superstition that a child who does not cry when sprinkled in baptism will not live; and the same is recorded in Hone's Year-Book.


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The following letter of Lord Nelson may, especially at the present moment, interest and amuse some of the readers of "N. & Q." The original is in my possession, and was given me by the late Miss Churchey of Brecon, daughter of the gentleman to whom it was addressed. Can any of your readers inform me where the "old lines" quoted by the great hero are to be found?


Ryde, Isle of Wight.

Merton, Oct. 20, 1802.


Your idea is most just and proper, that a provision should be made for midshipmen who have served a certain time with good characters, and certainly twenty pounds is a very small allowance; but how will your surprise be increased, when I tell you that their full pay, when watching, fighting and bleeding for their country at sea, is not equal to that sum. An admiral's half-pay is scarcely equal, including the run of a kitchen, to that of a French cook; a captain's but little better than a valet's; and a lieutenant's certainly not equal to a London footman's; a midshipman's nothing. But as I am a seaman, and faring with them, I can say nothing. I will only apply some very old lines wrote at the end of some former war:

"Our God and sailor we adore, In time of danger, not before; The danger past, both are alike requited, God is forgotten, and the sailor slighted."

Your feelings do you great honour, and I only wish all others in the kingdom were the same. However, if ever I should be placed in a situation to be useful to such a deserving set of young men as our mids, nothing shall be left undone which may be in the power of,

Dear Sir, Your most obedient servant, NELSON AND BRONTE.

Walton Churchey, Esq., Brecon, S. Wales.

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Devonshire Superstitions.—Seeing that you sometimes insert extracts from newspapers, I forward you a copy of a paragraph which appeared in The Times of March 7, 1854, and which is worth a corner in your folk-lore columns:

"The following gross case of superstition, which occurred as late as Sunday se'nnight, in one of the largest {345} market towns in the north of Devon, is related by an eye-witness:—A young woman, living in the neighbourhood of Holsworthy, having for some time past been subject to periodical fits of illness, endeavoured to effect a cure by attendance at the afternoon service at the parish church, accompanied by thirty young men, her near neighbours. Service over, she sat in the porch of the church, and each of the young men, as they passed out in succession, dropped a penny into her lap; but the last, instead of a penny, gave her half-a-crown, taking from her the twenty-nine pennies which she had already received. With this half-crown in her hand, she walked three times round the communion-table, and afterwards had it made into a ring, by the wearing of which she believes she will recover her health."


Quacks.—In the neighbourhood of Sevenoaks, Kent, a little girl was bitten by a mad dog lately. Instead of sending for the doctor, her father posted off to an old woman famous for her treatment of hydrophobia. The old woman sent a quart bottle of some dark liquid, which the patient is to take twice or thrice daily: and for this the father, though but a poor labourer, had to pay one pound. The liquid is said by the "country sort" to be infallible. It is made of herbs plucked by the old woman, and mixed with milk. Its preparation is of course a grand secret. As yet, the child keeps well.

Near Whitechapel, London, is another old woman, equally famous; but her peculiar talent is not for hydrophobia, but for scalds. Whenever any of the Germans employed in the numerous sugar-refineries in that neighbourhood scald themselves, they beg, instead of being sent to the hospital, to be taken to the old woman. For a few sovereigns, she will take them in, nurse, and cure them; and I was informed by a proprietor of a large sugar-house there, that often in a week she will heal a scald as thoroughly as the hospital will in a month, and send the men back hearty and fit for work to boot. She uses a good deal of linseed-oil, I am told; but her great secret, they say, is, that she gives the whole of her time and attention to the patient.

P. M. M.


Burning a Tooth with Salt.—Can any one tell us whence originates the custom, very scrupulously observed by many amongst the common people, when a tooth has been taken out, of burning it—generally with salt?


Half Moon Street.

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"The wine of life is drawn, and the mere lees Is left this vault to brag of."—Macbeth, Act II. Sc. 3.

"These spells are spent, and, spent with these, The wine of life is on the lees."—Marmion, introd. to canto i.

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"The old and true saying, that a man is generally more inclined to feel kindly towards one on whom he has conferred favours than towards one from whom he has received them."—Macaulay, Essay on Bacon, p. 367. (1-vol. edit.)—Query, whose saying?

"On s'attache par les services qu'on rend, bien plus qu'on n'est attache par les services qu'on recoit. C'est qu'il y a, dans le coeur de l'homme, bien plus d'orgueil que de reconnaissance."—Alex. Dumas, La Comtesse de Charny, II. ch. iii.

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"But earthlier happy is the rose distilled Than that, which, withering on the virgin thorn, Grows, lives, and dies in single blessedness."—Midsum. Night's Dream, Act I. Sc. 1.

"Maria. Responde tu mihi vicissim:—utrum spectaculum amoenius: rosa nitens et lactea in suo frutice, an decerpta digitis ac paulatim marcescens?

"Pamphilus. Ego rosam existimo feliciorem quae marcescit in hominis manu, delectans interim et oculos et nares, quam quae senescit in frutice."—Erasmus, Procus et Puella.

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"And spires whose silent finger points to heaven." (?)

"And the white spire that points a world of rest."—Mrs. Sigourney, Connecticut River.

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"She walks the waters like a thing of life."—Byron.

"The master bold, The high-soul'd and the brave, Who ruled her like a thing of life Amid the crested wave."—Mrs. Sigourney, Bell of the Wreck.

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"Thy heroes, tho' the general doom Have swept the column from the tomb, A mightier monument command,— The mountains of their native land!"—Byron.

"Your mountains build their monument, Tho' ye destroy their dust."—Mrs. Sigourney, Indian Names.

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"Else had I heard the steps, tho' low And light they fell, as when earth receives, In morn of frost, the wither'd leaves That drop when no winds blow."—Scott, Triermain, i. 5.

"Dropp'd, like shed blossoms, silent to the grass."—Hood, Mids. Fairies, viii.

"There is sweet music here that softer falls Than petals from blown roses on the grass."—Tennyson, Lotos-eaters.


"Two such I saw, what time the labour'd ox In his loose traces from the furrow came."—Milton, Comus.

"While labouring oxen, spent with toil and heat, In their loose traces from the field retreat."—Pope, Pastoral, iii.

* * * * *

"It is the curse of kings, to be attended By slaves that take their humours for a warrant To break into the bloody house of life, And, on the winking of authority, To understand a law: to know the meaning Of dangerous majesty, when perchance it frowns More upon humour than advised respect."—King John, Act IV. Sc. 2.

"O curse of kings! Infusing a dread life into their words, And linking to the sudden transient thought The unchangeable, irrevocable deed!"—Coleridge, Death of Wallenstein, v. 9.

* * * * *

"Conscience! . . . . . . Your lank jawed, hungry judge will dine upon 't, And hang the guiltless rather than eat his mutton cold."—C. Cibber, Richard III.

"The hungry judges soon the sentence sign, And wretches hang that jurymen may dine."—Pope, Rape of the Lock, iii. 21.


"Death and his brother Sleep." Quoted (from Shelley) with parallel passages from Sir T. Browne, Coleridge, and Byron in "N. & Q.," Vol. iv., p. 435. Add to them the following:

"Care-charmer Sleep, son of the sable Night, Brother to Death, in silent darkness born."

Samuel Daniel, Spenser's successor as "voluntary Laureate."

"Care-charming Sleep, thou easer of all woes, Brother to Death."—Fletcher, Valentinian.

"The death of each day's life."—Shakspeare, Macbeth, Act II. Sc. 2.

"Teach me to live, that I may dread The grave as little as my bed."—Bishop Ken.

"We thought her sleeping when she died; And dying, when she slept."—Hood.

"Somne levis, quanquam certissima mortis imago Consortem cupio te tamen esse tori; Alma quies, optata, veni, nam sic sine vita Vivere quam suave est; sic sine morte mori."—T. Warton. [Finely translated by Wolcot.] "Come, gentle sleep! attend thy vot'ry's pray'r, And, though Death's image, to my couch repair; How sweet, though lifeless, yet with life to lie, And, without dying, oh, how sweet to die!"

"While sleep the weary world reliev'd, By counterfeiting death revived."—Butler, Hudibras.

"Shake off this downy sleep, death's counterfeit, And look on death itself!"—Shakspeare, Macbeth, Act II. Sc. 3.

"Nature, alas! why are thou so Obliged unto thy greatest foe? Sleep that is thy best repast, Yet of death it bears a taste, And both are the same things at last."—Dennis, Sophonisba.

"Great Nature's second course, Chief nourisher in life's feast."—Shakspeare, Macbeth, Act II. Sc. 2.


"Nothing doth countervail a faithful friend."—Ecclesias. vi. 15.

"Nil ego contulerim jucundo sanus amico."—Hor. Sat. v. 44.

"If thou wouldst get a friend, prove him first, and be not hasty to credit him."—Ecclesias. v. 7.

"Diu cogita, an tibi in amicitiam aliquis recipiendus sit: cum placuerit fieri, toto illum pectore admitte: tam audacter cum illo loquere, quam tecum."—Seneca, Epist. iii.

"Quid dulcius, quam habere amicum quicum omnia audeas sic loquere quam tecum."—Cic., de Amic. 6.

"The friends thou hast, and their adoption tried, Grapple them to thy heart with hoops of steel."

* * * * *

"But do not dull thy palm with entertainment Of each new-hatch'd, unfledg'd comrade."—Shakspeare, Hamlet, Act I. Sc. 3.

"Bring not every man into thy house."—Ecclesias. vi. 7.

* * * * *

"A man's attire, and excessive laughter, and gait, show what he is."—Ecclesias. xix. 30.

"—— The apparel oft proclaims the man."—Hamlet, Act I. Sc. 3.

* * * * *

"Unus Pellaeo juveni non sufficit orbis: AEstuat infelix angusto limite mundi, Ut Gyarae clausus scopulis, parvaque Seripho."—Juv. x. 168.

"Hamlet. What have you, my good friends, deserved at the hands of fortune, that she sends you to prison here?

Guildenstern. Prison, my lord!

Ham. Denmark's a prison.

Rosencrantz. Then is the world one.

Ham. A goodly one, in which there are many confines, wards, and dungeons; Denmark being one of the worst.

Ros. We think not so, my lord.


Ros. Why, then, your ambition makes it one; 'tis too narrow for your mind."—Shakspeare, Hamlet, Act II. Sc. 2.

* * * * *


"Ad hanc legem natus es; hoc patri tuo accidit, hoc matri, hoc majoribus, hoc omnibus ante te, hoc omnibus post te, series invicta, et nulla mutabilis ope, illigat ac trahit cuncta."

"King. —— You must know, your father lost a father; That father lost—lost his; . . . . . . . . . . . To reason most absurd, whose common theme Is death of fathers, and who still hath cry'd, From the first corse, 'till he that died to-day, This must be so."—Hamlet, Act I. Sc. 2.

* * * * *

"[Greek: Apo de tou me echontos]," &c.—Ante, Vol. viii., p. 372.

"Besides this, nothing that he so plentifully gives me."—Shakspeare, As You Like It, Act I. Sc. 1.

J. W. F.

Having observed several Notes in different Numbers of your interesting publication, in which sentences have been quoted from the works of ancient and modern authors that are almost alike in words, or contain the same ideas clothed in different language, I would only add, that those of your readers or correspondents who take an interest in such inquiries will find instances enough, in a work which was published in Venice in 1624, to fill several columns of "N. & Q." The volume is entitled Il Seminario de Governi di Stato, et di Guerra.

W. W.


* * * * *

Minor Notes.

Vallancey's Green Book.—Perhaps your readers are not aware of the existence of the curious and interesting volume mentioned in the following cutting from Jones's last Catalogue (D'Olier St. Dublin). It may therefore be worth making a note of in your columns:

"1008. Vallancey's Green Book, manuscript, folio.

*** Vallancey's Green Book, so named from being bound in green vellum, was the volume in which the celebrated Irish antiquary, General Charles Vallancey, entered the titles of all the manuscripts and printed works relative to Ireland which he had occasion to consult in his antiquarian researches. The copy now offered for sale is believed to be the only one extant. Bound in the same volume is a collection of the titles of all the manuscripts relating to Ireland, which are preserved in the Archbishop of Canterbury's library, at Lambeth, London."

R. H.

Trin. Coll., Dublin.

Herrings.—"The lovers of fish" may be glad to learn what a bloater is, a mystery which I endeavoured to unravel when lately on the Norfolk coast. A bloater, I was informed, is a large, plump herring (as we say a bloated toad); and the genuine claimants of the title fall by their own weight from the meshes of the net.

The origin of the simile—"As dead as a herring"—may not be generally known. This fish dies immediately upon its removal from the native element (strange to say) from want of air; for swimming near the surface it requires much, and the gills, when dry, cannot perform their function.

C. T.

Byron and Rochefoucauld.—The following almost word-for-word renderings of two of Rochefoucauld's Reflexions occur in the third and fourth stanzas of the third canto of Byron's Don Juan. I am not aware that any notice has been taken of them beyond a note appended to the first passage, in Moore's edition of Byron's Works, attributing the mot to Montaigne:

"Yet there are some, they say, who have had none, But those who have ne'er end with only one."—Byron.

"On peut trouver des femmes qui n'ont jamais eu de galanterie; mais il est rare d'en trouver qui n'en aient jamais eu qu'une."—Rochefoucauld's Maximes et Reflexions Morales.

"In her first passion, woman loves her lover, In all the others all she loves is love."—Byron

"Dans les premieres passions les femmes aiment l'amant; dans les autres elles aiment l'amour."—Rochefoucauld's Maximes et Reflexions Morales.


Customs, London.

"Abscond."—This is a word which appears to have lost its primary meaning of concealment, apart from that of escape. Horace Walpole, however, uses it in the former sense:

"Virette absconds, and has sent M. de Pecquigny word that he shall abscond till he can find a proper opportunity of fighting him."


Garlands, Broadsheets, &c.—Will you allow me to suggest to your correspondents, that it would be very desirable, for literary and antiquarian purposes, to form as complete a list as possible of public and private collections of garlands, broadsheets, chap-books, ballads, tracts, &c.; and to ask them to forward to "N. & Q." the names of any such public or private collections as they may be acquainted with. I need not say anything of the importance and value of the ballads, &c., contained in such collections, to the historical student and the archaeologist, for their value is too well known to require it; but I would earnestly urge the formation of such a list as the one I now {348} suggest, which will greatly facilitate literary researches.


Life-belts.—Suppose that each person on board the Tayleur had been supplied with a life-belt, how many hundreds of lives would have been saved? And when it is considered that such belts can be made for less than half-a-crown each, what reason can there be that government should not require them to be carried, at least in emigrant vessels, if passengers are so ignorant and stupid as not voluntarily to provide them for themselves?


Turkey and Russia—The Eastern Question (Vol. ix., p. 244.).—The past history of these rival states presents more than one parallel passage like the following, extracted from Watkins's Travels through Switzerland, Italy, the Greek Islands, to Constantinople, &c. (2nd edit., two vols. 8vo. 1794):

"The Turks have been, and indeed deserve to be, praised for the manner in which they declared war against the Russians. They sent by Mr. Bulgakoff, her Imperial Majesty's minister at the Porte, to demand the restitution of the Crimea, which had been extorted from them by the merciless despot of R——a, (sic) when too much distressed by a rebellion in Egypt to protect it. On his return without an answer they put him in the Seven Towers, and commenced hostilities. They hate the Russians; and to show it the more, frequently call a Frank Moscoff. To the English they are more partial than to any other Christian nation, from a tradition that Mahomet was prevented by death from converting our ancestors to his faith."—Vol. ii. pp. 276-7.



"Verbatim et literatim."—As this phrase often finds insertion, even in the pages of "N. & Q.," it may be well to call attention to the fact that there is no such adverb as literatim in the Latin language. There is the adverb literate, which means after the manner of a literate man, learnedly; but to express the idea intended by the coined word literatim, I think we must use the form ad literam—"Verbatim et ad literam."


* * * * *



In addition to the Tower, there was in Cromwell's time the fortification of Baynard's Castle, near Blackfriars, and the city gates were also fortifications on a small scale; they were rebuilt (St. John's, Clerkenwell, excepted, which was spared) after the Great Fire, and were taken down somewhere about 1760. Can any of your readers tell me whether there is any series of prints extant of the most remarkable buildings which were destroyed by the fire? There are some few maps, and a print or two interspersed here and there, in the British Museum; but is there any regular series of plates? We know that Inigo Jones built a Grecian portico on to the east end of the Gothic cathedral of old St. Paul's, surmounted with statues of Charles I., &c.; that the Puritans destroyed a beautiful conduit at the top of Cheapside; that Sir Thomas Gresham's Exchange was standing. But among the many city halls burnt down, were there any fine specimens of architecture, any churches worthy of note? And as Guildhall was not entirely consumed, what parts of the present edifice belong to the olden time?

You are doubtless aware that the fire did not extend to St. Giles's Cripplegate, and that at the back of the church are remains of the old city walls.


* * * * *


On what authority does Mr. Tytler (History of Scotland, vol. iii. pp. 45—53.), in his otherwise very fair account of this celebrated battle, assert that the Earl of Douglas was a younger man than Hotspur? I have no doubt that he found it so recorded somewhere, and willingly believed that his countrymen had prevailed, not only over superior numbers of the enemy, but also over greater experience on the part of the hostile general; but a little more investigation would have shown him that the difference of age lay the other way. Henry Percy, by his own account (in the Scrope and Grosvenor Controversy), was born in 1366, and was therefore twenty-two when the battle was fought. I do not know that there is any direct evidence to Douglas's age, but the following considerations appear to me decisive as to his being much older than his rival.

1. Froissart's visit to Scotland was undoubtedly prior to 1366 (although the exact date is not given), and during his stay of fifteen days at Dalkeith, he saw much of the youthful heir of that castle, the future hero of Otterburn, and describes him as a "promising youth."

2. Hotspur, in his deposition above mentioned, says that he first bore arms at the siege of Berwick in 1378; but his antagonist must have commenced his military career long before, as Froissart mentions him as knighted on the occasion of the battle fought a few days after the surrender of that place, between Sir Archibald Douglas and Sir Thomas Musgrave; none but kings' sons were knighted in childhood in those days, or without undergoing a long previous probation in the inferior grades of chivalry.

3. An early and constant family (if not general) tradition asserts that Douglas had a natural son {349} (ancestor of the Cavers family), old enough to bear his father's banner in the battle; on this, however, I lay little stress, as Froissart distinctly assigns that honourable post to another person, David Campbell, who was slain by the side of his lord.

Mr. Tytler is also evidently wrong in placing, on the authority of Macpherson's Notes on Winton, this battle on the 5th of August, 1388. Froissart gives the date as the 19th of August, and as the moon was full on the 18th, the combatants would have bright moonlight all night, which agrees with all the narratives; on the 5th they would have little moonlight, and would have lost it soon.

Though not very germane to the matter, except as being a point of chronology, I may add here that the remarkable solar eclipse, long remembered in Scotland by the name of the "Dark Hour," did not occur, as stated by Mr. Tytler, on 17th June, 1432, but on the same month and day of the following year.


* * * * *


I have in my possession a curious ancient pedigree of De Beauvoir and Harryes, headed thus:

"The name De Beauvoir is from —— in the kingdom of England; came into England with y^e Conquest of the Norman Duke, from whom is descended all that are now in England, they bearing for their coate armour the first, Azure, a chevron or, between three cinquefeuilles argent, by the name of De Beauvoir. The second he beareth the guelles a chevron between three hayeres heads erased, by the name of Harreys. The third (or) a lyon rampant azure, by the name of Throlpe. The fourth, Argent, a fess between three cressentes azure, by the name of ... within a mantle doubled guelles on two helmetes and torseyes proper and the first a demy-dragon, adorned properly guelles and argent, vert, by the foresaid name De Beauvoir; on the second a harye sitting argent between two bushes vert."

The pedigree begins with "Sir Robert Beauvoir, Lord Beauvoir, Lord Baron of Beaver Castle, Knt.;" and the maternal line with "Sir Robert Harryes of Malden in Essex, Knt., came into England with the Saxons."

In the tenth descent the sole heiress is represented as marrying "Robert, Lord Bellmoint," whose sole daughter married "John, Lord Manners, father of Edmund Manners, first Earl of Rutland, from whom is descended Roger, Earl of Rutland, now living."

The pedigree ends with the nineteenth descendant, Henry de Beauvoir, of the Isle of Guernsey, who married the daughter of Peter Harreys of the Isle of Guernsey.

Can any reader of "N. & Q." inform me whether descendants of that marriage are still to be found, and where?

There are points in the pedigree, as genealogists will see, totally discrepant from the Peerages.



* * * * *

Minor Queries.

Dog-whippers: Frankincense.—Can any reader throw light upon the following entries in the churchwardens' account-book for the parish of Forest Hill, near Oxford?

"1694. P^d to Tho. Mills for whipping dogs out of church, 1 shilling.

"1702. P^d for frankincense for the church, 6 pence."

The only passage which occurs to me as at all bearing upon so late a use of incense in parish churches in this country, is the following extract from Herbert:

"The country parson hath a care that his church be swept and kept clean; and at great festivals, strewed and stuck with boughs, and perfumed with incense."

This hardly brings the custom later than 1630.

As regards the former entry, I am told by a friend that the office of dog-whipper existed about fifty years ago for the church of Heversham in Westmoreland.

C. F. W.

Atchievement in Yorkshire—Lipyeatt Family.—Found and noted in a Yorkshire church tower, an atchievement painted apparently about forty or fifty years ago, of which no account can be given by the sexton or parish clerk. Query, to what names do the bearings belong? viz. Vert, on a fess or, between three bezants, three lions passant azure. Impaling: Vert, three swans in tri, statant, wings erect, argent. Crest, a lion passant azure, langued gules. The swans have head, neck, and body like swans, but their legs appear to have been borrowed from the stork. It is suspected that the dexter coat belongs to one of the Wiltshire Lipyeatts.

Is there any pedigree of the Lipyeatt family, who were burghers of wealth and consideration in the town of Marlborough, from the middle of the seventeenth century down to the latter part of the eighteenth?


"Waestart."—A common expression of sorrow or condolence among the lower classes in the manufacturing district around Leeds, in Yorkshire. Whence does it arise? Is it an abbreviation of "Woe to my heart," "Woe is me"?

J. L. S., Sen.

Rebellion of 1715.—Has any report been published of the trial of the prisoners taken at Preston? Mr. Baron Bury, Mr. Justice Eyre, and Mr. Baron Montague opened the Commission at Liverpool. The trials began on January 20, 1716, and lasted till February 8.



"Athenian Sport."—Who was the writer of Athenian Sport, or Two Thousand Paradoxes, merely argued to amuse and divert the Age, by a Member of the Athenian Society, London, 1707?[1] It would almost appear to have been a burlesque upon the Athenian Oracle.


[Footnote 1: Lowndes has attributed this work, but we think incorrectly, to the celebrated John Dunton.—ED.]

Gutta Percha made soluble.—Can any one inform me how gutta percha may be made so soluble, that a coating of it may be given any article, which shall dry as hard as its former state? I have tried melting it in a ladle, but it never hardened properly.

E. B.


Arms of Anthony Kitchen.—Can any of your correspondents inform me what were the arms of Anthony Kitchen, Bishop of Llandaff in 1545? And what relation, if any, of Robert Kitchen, who was Mayor of Bristol in 1588? The latter was of Kendal in Westmoreland.

D. F. T.

Griesbach Arms.—Could any correspondent versed in German heraldry tell me the arms of the German family of Griesbach, or refer me to any work containing a collection of German arms?


Postage System of the Romans.—Could any of your correspondents inform me where I may find a perfect account of the postal system of the Romans? We know that they must have had such a system, but I have forgotten the author who gives any description of it.


Three Crowns and Sugar-loaf.—Passing through Franche (a village near Kidderminster in Worcestershire) the other day, I saw an inn called "The Three Crowns and Sugar-loaf." As there seems to me not the least connexion between a crown and a sugar-loaf, I send this to "N. & Q." in hopes of an explanation from some of its readers more skilled than myself in such matters.


Helen MacGregor.—In Burke's Landed Gentry (Supplement, art. "MacGregor of Craigrostan and Inversnaid") this redoubted heroine is described as "a woman of agreeable temper and domestic habits, active and careful in the management of her family affairs." This is so directly opposed, not only to Scott's description, but to the generality of traditions about her, that, as Campbell says, "it makes the hair of one's literary faith stand on end." Helen was, very likely, a different person from what she afterwards became, ere the events happened that drove Rob Roy "to the hill-side to become a broken man;" but one can hardly imagine her, in her most happy days, to have been such a person as is above depicted—an amiable wife and clever housekeeper. The pen of a descendant is evident, in the partial description given of both husband and wife.


Francis Grose the Antiquary.—Francis Grose, the distinguished antiquary, was Captain and Adjutant of the Surrey Militia, commanded by Col. Hodges, in which regiment he served for many years; but on some occasion, probably breach of discipline, he was brought to a general court-martial. The regiment formed part of the large encampment of 15,000 men on Cocksheath, near Maidstone, in 1778. I think the trial took place then, or within a year or two of that date; and should be thankful to any reader of "N. & Q." who would supply me with the precise date when the court-martial assembled?

[Greek: Ss.]

"King of Kings:" Bishop Andrews' Sermons.—From MS. Account of Fellows of Kings, compiled from 1750, A.D. 1583, Geffrey King, D.D., Professor of Hebrew, Cambridge, first chaplain to Bancroft and James I., whether he or Thos. King, 1605, or James King, 1609? One of them began his sermon at St. James: "I, King of Kings, come to James the First and Sixth, nothing wavering."

"These puns much applauded in those times, insomuch that the preacher would stop to receive applause, which was expressed by loud and repeated hums. In Bishop Andrews' printed Sermons, these stops may be discovered."

Is this true of Bishop Andrews' Sermons?

J. H. L.

Scroope Family.—Will any one be so good as to clear up the doubts noticed in the peerage books as to the family of Henry Lord Scroope, of Bolton, who died about 22 Henry VII.? His wives are generally stated to have been daughters of the Earl of Northumberland and Lord Scroope of Upsal; but other accounts are to be met with. What however I particularly refer to, is the question, who was the mother of his daughter Alice, who married Sir Gilbert Talbot? Lady Talbot could not have been by the daughter of Lord Scroope of Upsal; as, if so, she and her issue would have inherited her grandfather's barony, which it is certain was enjoyed by his younger brothers. Very likely Mr. Scroope's unpublished volume on the Lords Scroope and their seat Coombe Castle explains this.

S. N.

Harrison the Regicide—Lowle.—Thomas Willing, son of Joseph Willing and Anne Lowle (his second wife), married July 16, 1704, Anne Harrison, a grand-daughter of the Regicide. Charles (son of Thomas and Anne, born in Bristol, 1710) married Anne Shippen. One of their daughters married Sir Walter Stirling; and a {351} great-granddaughter (Miss Bingham) married Mr. Baring, afterwards Lord Ashburton. I should be obliged for information as follows:

1. Through what descent was Anne Harrison a descendant of the Regicide?

2. Is anything known of the Lowle family? Their arms were, "Sa., a hand grasping three darts argent."



"Chair" or "Char."—I am desirous of ascertaining the meaning of this term, as occurring frequently in the Cambridgeshire Fens. It is variously spelt, chair, chaire, chare, or char. In the Cambridgeshire dialect it may be remarked, air or are is pronounced as "ar." Thus, upstairs, bare, are "upstars," "bar." There is a Char Fen at Stretham, laid down in Sir Jonah Moore's Map (1663). There is also a Chare Fen at Cottenham; and at Littleport is a place called Littleport Chair. This last had the name at least as early as Edward II.'s reign; as in a description of a neighbouring fen, not later than that date, one boundary is "A le chaire per Himmingslode usque Gualslode End." A friend who has searched the documents in the Fen Office at Ely on this subject for me, has been unable to discover the least clue to the meaning of the term.

At Newcastle-on-Tyne, a narrow street or passage between houses is called a chare; but there is nothing narrow about Char Fen, which was part of an open common. The course of the rivers at Littleport may be imagined to form a rude outline of a chair or seat; but this does not apply to the other instances in which the name occurs.

There are numerous local names in the fens, of which the history may be traced for some centuries, deserving investigation.

E. G. R.

Aches.—I am aware that there is abundant proof of "aches" being a dissyllable when Shakspeare wrote, and long after; but I wish to know whether there is any rhyme earlier than that in Butler, which fixes the pronunciation as artches.

S. S.

Leeming Hall.—There was formerly a mansion somewhere between Liverpool and Preston, called Leeming Hall. Can any of the correspondents of "N. & Q." inform me if it still exists, and what is the name of the present owner? I should also be glad to have some information respecting the genealogy of the family of Leemings, who formerly lived there, or to learn the name and residence of some member of the family to whom I could apply for such information.


Caricature; a Canterbury Tale.—Many facts are recorded in the caricatures of the day, of which there is no other account. The reference of the following may be well known, but I should feel obliged by any of your correspondents explaining it. Fox, the Prince of Wales, and a third figure (?), are in a boat pushing off from shore, with Burke looking over a wall with a large bag in his hand. He says, "D——me, Charley, don't leave me in the lurch;" who replies, "Self-preservation is the first law of nature." His companions joining with "Push off, Charley, push off."


Perpetual Curates not represented in Convocation.—In Lectures on Church Difficulties, by the Rev. J. M. Neale, I find this statement:

"Under the old regime rectors and vicars were alone, generally speaking, allowed a vote in the election of proctors, to the exclusion from that privilege of even perpetual curates."—Lecture xi., p. 133.

I believe that this is correct, and that the curates spoken of as having their votes rejected in Day versus Knewstubbs, were perpetual curates: but can some of your correspondents confirm this view by facts?



Dr. Whichcote and Dorothy Jordan.—In the preface to the edition of the plays of Wycherley and others, edited by Mr. Leigh Hunt, the following passage occurs:

"The two best sermons we ever heard (and no disparagement to many a good one from the pulpit) were a sentence of Dr. Whichcote's against the multiplication of things forbidden, and the honest, heart and soul laugh of Dorothy Jordan."

I feel rather curious to read a sentence which is said to possess so much instruction.

[Greek: Xanthos].

Moral Philosophy.—What English writers have treated of the obligation of oaths and promises, or generally of moral philosophy, between the Reformation and the time of Bishop Sanderson?

H. P.

Shelley's "Prometheus Unbound."—Can any of your correspondents, by conjecture or reference to the original MS., elucidate the meaning of the following passage, which occurs in Act II. Sc. 4. of this extraordinary poem? It sounds so sweetly that one cannot but wish it were possible to understand it.

"Asia. Who made that sense which, when the winds of spring In rarest visitation, or the voice Of one beloved heard in youth alone, Fills the faint eyes with falling tears which dim The radiant looks of unbewailing flowers, And leaves this peopled world a solitude When it returns no more?"

Shelley's mysticism is very often such as to render him unintelligible to ordinary readers, but it is combined here with a want of grammatical {352} connexion that makes obscurity ten times more obscure. I have not the least idea whether "fills" refers to "sense which," or to "voice;" but whichsoever it may belong to, it is evident that the other nominative singular, as also the plural "winds of spring," have no verbs, either expressed or understood, to govern. A line or two may have dropped out; but all editions as far as I am aware, give the passage as above. In Act I., at p. 195. line 7 of the edition of 1853, occurs a curious error (I presume of the press); Mercury, addressing the Furies, says:

"Back to your towers of iron, And gnash beside the streams of fire, and wail Your foodless teeth."

The having no food to put between one's teeth is no doubt a very sufficient cause for wailing, but still I think the passage would run better if "gnash" and "wail" exchanged places. How do other editions give it?


Turkish Language.—Are there any easy dialogues in the Turkish language, but in the English type, to be obtained; and where? If there be not, I think it would be desirable to publish some, with names of common objects, &c.


* * * * *

Minor Queries with Answers.

Illustrated Bible of 1527.—Can you inform me whether there is any Bible published in 1527 at Lyons, with Hans Holbein's cuts in it, and what engraver used this monogram, as I have a Bible of that date, the plates of which are almost fac-similes (some of them) of Holbein's cuts, which were published by Pickering? The date of the Bible is 1527.

"Impressa autem Lugduni per Jacobum Mareschall feliciter explicat, anno nostri Salutis 1527."

L. S. C.

[Several editions of the Bible were printed in the early part of the sixteenth century at Lyons, some of them ornamented with cuts from designs similar to those of Holbein. Two or three from the press of Mareschall are in the British Museum. We believe there were no Bibles printed at Lyons in which it was acknowledged that the cuts were designed by Holbein. The following notice of the monogram occurs in Dictionnaire des Monogrammes, par F. Bruilliot, part i. p. 421., No. 3208.: "Cette marque, dont on ne connait pas la signification, se trouve sur une copie d'une gravure en bois de Jean Springinklee, representant l'enfant Jesus couche a terre, entoure de trois anges, et adore par St. Joseph et par la Ste. Vierge. A droite au travers d'une fenetre pres d'une colonne on remarque le boeuf et l'ane, et au milieu du fond deux bergers dont l'un ote son chapeau. La marque est au bas a gauche pres de l'habit de St. Joseph. Bartsch decrit l'original, P. Gr. t. vii. p. 328., No. 51."]

Heraldic Query.—Can you help me towards ascertaining the date and meaning of the following device, which I find upon an old picture-frame, the portrait once inclosed in which has long since been destroyed?

On a disk, of about six inches in diameter, are engraved the royal arms of Great Britain, without the harp, but with the Scots lion. You will at once perceive the peculiarity of this bearing, the harp and the lion having been added at the same time by James I. The leopards occupy the first quarter, the ground of which is semeed with hearts; the Scots lion the second, his feet resting upon a quaint band, which seems to occupy the place of the usual bordure. The three fleurs-de-lis, very much broadened, and taking almost the shape of crowns, occupy the places of the third and fourth quarters.

The only instance I can find of a single lion or leopard appearing upon a coin without the harp, is a coin (a half-florin) of Edward III., on the obverse of which appears a leopard crowned, with a banner of the arms of England fastened to his neck, and flowing back upon his shoulder.


Oxford and Cambridge Club.

[Our correspondent has wasted his ingenuity: the bearings are, first quarter, Denmark, Or, semee of hearts gules, three lions passant guardant. Second quarter, Norway, a lion crowned, or holding a Danish battle-axe. In base Azure, three crowns, or two and one, Sweden. Surmounted by the royal crown. See Souverains du Monde, t. iii. p. 430.]

Richard de Sancto Victorie.—In Anthony Mundy's Successe of the Times, under the head "Scotland," he says,—

"In this King Alexander's reign (1110) lived also the holy man, Richard de Sancto Victorie, being a Scot borne, but lyving the more part of his time at Paris, in Fraunce, where he died, and lieth buried in the Abbey of S. Victorie, he being a brother of the same house."

Can you furnish any particulars of my countryman Richard?


[Richard, Abbot of St. Victor, was born in the reign of David I. After such education as Scotland afforded, in polite literature, the sacred Scriptures, and mathematics, the principal objects of his early studies, he went over to Paris. Here the fame of Hugh, Abbot of St. Victor, induced him to settle in that monastery, to pursue his theological studies. In 1164, upon the death of Hugh, he was chosen prior, which office he filled for nine years with great wisdom and prudence. He died March 10, 1173, and was buried in that monastery. He was the author of several treatises on subjects of practical divinity, and on scripture criticism, particularly on the description of Solomon's temple, Ezekiel's temple, and on the apparent contradictions in the books of Kings and Chronicles. They were all published at Paris in 1518 and 1540 in {353} two vols. folio, at Venice in 1692, at Cologne in 1621, and at Rouen in 1650, which is reckoned the best edition. A summary account of his works is given in Mackenzie's Lives and Characters of Writers of the Scots Nation, vol i. p. 147., edit. 1708.]

St. Blase.—In Norwich, every fifty years, the festival of Bishop Blase is observed with great ceremony. What connexion had he with that city?

W. P. E.

[Norwich formerly abounded with woolcombers, who still esteem Bishop Blase as their patron saint, probably from the [Combe of Yren] with which he was tortured previously to his martyrdom. "No other reason," says Alban Butler, "than the great devotion of the people to this celebrated martyr of the Church, seems to have given occasion to the woolcombers to choose him the titular patron of their profession; on which account his festival is still kept by them with a solemn guild at Norwich."]

* * * * *



(Vol. ix., p. 125.)

In a note to Parry's Royal Visits and Progresses in Wales, p. 317., I find the following allusion to the circumstances mentioned in ELFFIN AP GWYDDNO'S Query regarding Leicester's Rangership of Snowdon, and the patriotic opposition offered to his oppressions. I regret I am unable to afford the desired information respecting the imprisonment of the Welsh gentleman in the Tower. Could not this be furnished by some of your readers who have access to public documents and records of the period? This imprisonment is not mentioned either in the account I append, or in a longer one to be found in Appendix XVI. vol. iii. of Pennant's Tour in Wales:

"Among the Welsh nobility who formed a part of her Majesty's household, were Sir Richard Bulkeley, Bart., and Mrs. Blanche Parry, both of whom seem to have been brought up in the court from their infancy, and, consequently, in great esteem with her Majesty; so much so, that the Earl of Leicester, the Queen's favourite, began to be jealous of Sir Richard: and with a view of having him removed from court, he made an attempt to have him accused, upon false evidence, of treason. With this wicked design, the Earl of Leicester informed her Majesty that the council had been examining Sir Richard Bulkeley, and that they found him a dangerous person; that he dwelt in a suspicious corner of the world, and should be committed to the Tower. 'What! Sir Richard Bulkeley!' said the Queen; 'he never intended us any harm. We have brought him up from a boy, and have had special trial of his fidelity; ye shall not commit him.' 'We have the care of your Majesty's person,' said the Earl, 'and see more and hear more of the man than you do: he is of an aspiring mind, and lives in a remote place.' 'Before God!' replied the Queen; 'we will be sworn upon the Holy Evangelists, he never intended any harm.' And then her Majesty ran to the Bible, and kissing it, said: 'You shall not commit him; we have brought him up from a boy.' Sir Richard, however, was too high-minded to suffer such an imputation to be laid to his character. He insisted on an inquiry; during which it appeared, that Lord Dudley, Earl of Leicester, had been appointed a ranger of the Royal Forest of Snowdon, which, in the Queen's time, included some portion of Merioneth and Anglesey. This nobleman's insolence to the inhabitants of the forest was more than could be brooked. He tried to bring many freeholders' estates within the boundary; juries were empannelled, but the commissioners rejected their returns as unfavourable to the Earl. Those honest jurors, however, persisted, and found a verdict for the country. But in the year 1538, he succeeded by a packed jury, who appeared in his livery, blue, with ragged staves on the sleeves; men who, after this nefarious act, were stigmatised with the title of 'The Black Jury who sold their country.' Sir Richard Bulkeley, who, with Sir William Herbert and others, superseded a prior commission, resisted this oppression with great firmness, and laid those odious grievances before the Queen, whose regard for her loyal subjects in Wales was evinced by the recalling of the first commission, by proclamation at Westminster, in 1579. The Earl being worsted, sought the life of Sir Richard by having him charged as above. But this generous and patriotic nobleman, by his excellent and manly conduct, overthrew every malevolent design of his enemy; and came out of this fiery trial as clear as the pellucid crystal of Snowdon."

R. E. G. C.

* * * * *


(Vol. ix., p. 198.)

A SUBSCRIBER having challenged me by name to assist him in resolving his "historic doubts," I hasten to afford him what information I possess, conscious at the same time that I can add little or nothing that will materially aid him in his investigation.

First, then, as to Owen Gam. This name savours strongly of the leek, both Christian and surname being unequivocally British. Gam, in Welsh, signifies the "one-eyed;" we may conclude, therefore, that this gentleman, or one of his progenitors, had lost an eye in one of the frays common in bygone days, and so acquired the appellation of Gam. A SUBSCRIBER has omitted to give dates with his Queries, and thus leaves us in the dark as to the precise period he refers to; still, it may interest him to know that David Gam, a landed proprietor of some importance in Herefordshire, temp. Henry IV. and V., who had married the sister of Owen Glyndwr, was discovered in an attempt to assassinate his brother-in-law, the royal chieftain; and was, in consequence, arrested {354} and confined ten years in Owen's prison at Llansaintffraid. He was afterwards released; and distinguished himself, together with some near relatives, as Pennant relates, at the battle of Agincourt, where he fell, pierced with wounds, while assisting in the rescue of his royal master King Henry. Possibly, Owen Gam may have been a descendant of this half-hero, half-assassin.

Llewellyn Clifford, again, is a name strongly suggestive of its owner's connexion with Cambria. If A SUBSCRIBER has exhausted the resources of the Clifford pedigrees, it were, I suppose, useless to refer him to the ancestry of the defunct Earls of Cumberland; and especially to that part of it represented by Sir Roger de Clifford, of Clifford, co. Hereford, a famous soldier in the days of Henry III. and Edward I. He accompanied the latter monarch in his inroads into Wales, and fell in battle there, not far from Bangor, circa 1282-3, leaving several children; one of the younger of whom I conjecture to have been the father of the before-named Llewellyn Clifford. After having subjugated the country, we can easily fancy the conquerors perpetuating the event by naming certain of their posterity after the fallen prince Llewellyn.

As for Sir William de Roas (or Ros), A SUBSCRIBER is wrong in supposing his name to have been Ingman; for although he resided at Ingmanthorpe, co. York, his surname, in common with that of a long line of ancestry and descendants, was De Ros only. He was the grandson of Robert de Ros, the founder of the two castles, Werke and Hamlake, and one of the leaders of the baronial forces in their armed opposition to the tyrant King John.

Before closing this communication, I would suggest to A SUBSCRIBER, and to all others propounding genealogical Queries, the absolute necessity of affixing dates to their inquiries in every possible instance; as nothing is easier than to go astray, sometimes for half-a-dozen generations, in fixing the identity of a solitary individual.



* * * * *


(Vol. ix., pp. 105. 160.)

That this infamous man did die of poison, is, I believe, the general opinion. The late Dr. Cooke Taylor has the following passage upon the subject, in his Romantic Biography of the Age of Elizabeth, vol. i. p. 115.:

"Nearly all the cotemporary writers assert that Leicester fell a victim to poison; Naunton declares that he, by mistake, swallowed the potion he had prepared for another person; and, as there can be no doubt that the Earl was a poisoner of great eminence and success, the story is far from being improbable. The Privy Council must have believed that his death was not natural, for they minutely investigated a report that he had been poisoned by the son of Sir James Crofts, in revenge for the imprisonment of his father. Some suspicious circumstances were elicited during the examination; but the matter was suddenly dropped, probably because an inquiry into any one of the complicated intrigues of Elizabeth's court would have involved too many persons of honour and consequence."

Drummond of Hawthornden, in his Notes of Conversations with Ben Jonson, has the following curious note:

"The Earl of Leicester gave a bottle of liquor to his lady, which he willed her to use in any faintness; which she, after his returne from Court, not knowing it was poison, gave him, and so he died."

This is a strong confirmation of the statement given by Sir Robert Naunton.

In one of the many valuable notes appended by Dr. Bliss to the Athenae Oxonienses, is the following cotemporary narrative, copied from a MS. memoranda on a copy of Leicester's Ghost:

"The author (of the poem) hath omitted the end of the Earle, the which may thus and truely be supplied. The Countesse Lettice fell in love with Christopher Blunt, gent., of the Earle's horse; and they had many secret meetings, and much wanton familiarity; the which being discovered by the Earle, to prevent the pursuit thereof, when Generall of the Low Countreys, hee tooke Blunt with him, and theire purposed to have him made away: and for this plot there was a ruffian of Burgundy suborned, who, watching him in one night going to his lodging at the Hage, followed him and struck at his head with a halbert or battle-axe, intending to cleave his head. But the axe glaunced, and withall pared off a great piece of Blunt's skull, which was very dangerous and longe in healinge: but he recovered, and after married the Countesse; who took this soe ill, as that she, with Blunt, deliberated and resolved to dispatch the Earle. The Earle, not patient of this soe greate wrong of his wife, purposed to carry her to Kenilworth; and to leave here there untill her death by naturall or by violent means, but rather by the last. The Countesse also having a suspicion, or some secret intelligence of this treachery against her, provided artificial meanes to prevent the Earle; which was by a cordiall, the which she had no fit opportunity to offer him till he came to Cornebury Hall, in Oxfordshire; where the Earle, after his gluttonous manner, surfeiting with excessive eating and drinking, fell soe ill that he was forced to stay there. Then the deadly cordiall was propounded unto him by the Countesse; as Mr. William Haynes, sometimes the Earle's page, and then gentleman of his bed-chamber, told me, who protested hee saw her give that fatall cup to the Earle, which was his last draught, and an end of his plott against the Countesse, and of his journey, and of himselfe; and soe—Fraudis fraude sua prenditur artifex."—Athenae Oxon., vol. ii. col. 74, 75. note.


* * * * *



(Vol. viii., p. 199.; Vol. ix., p. 176.)

I perfectly recollect reading, when a boy, a critique on this poem, and being much amused thereby. The critique appeared in the Literary Gazette or Athenaeum, as well as I remember. I never saw the poem, but I recollect some of the lines quoted, which went nearly as follows:—

"The following morning, at break of day, An orderly dragoon did come this way: 'Holloa! holloa! I say, give ear, Is Adjutant Hardman quartered here? Holloa! halloa! I am not wrong, Is Adjutant Hardman here at home?'"

I merely quote from memory and hope, therefore, that any deviations from the original may be pardoned.

Lieutenant (Brevet Captain) Hardman, if not a first-rate poet, is a gallant soldier, and I rejoice to see his name in the Army List for March, 1854. I cannot ascertain at what period he joined the army, but he was present at the cavalry engagements of Sahagun and Benevente, on December 20th and 27th, 1808, on the retreat of Sir John Moore's army to Coruna, for which he is decorated with a Peninsula medal. For his bravery as a non-commissioned officer he was promoted, May 19, 1813, to a cornetcy in the royal wagon train; and was transferred, August 12 following, to the 23rd Light Dragoons, and was same day appointed Regimental Adjutant of that corps. On the almost total change of officers that took place in the 10th Hussars, owing to the quarrels of Colonels Quentin and Palmer, Lieutenant Hardman succeeded Captain Bromley, on December 15, 1814, as Lieutenant and Adjutant in the corps in which he had commenced his military career; a sufficient proof of his having been a zealous, active, and efficient non-commissioned officer, when serving as such in the regiment. He embarked at Ramsgate with the service squadrons of his regiment in April, 1815, and landed at Ostend, whence the 10th regiment proceeded to Brussels: it was present at Quatre Bras, although not engaged with the enemy: and at Waterloo it behaved with the greatest gallantry, and lost two officers, nineteen soldiers, and fifty-one horses killed, in addition to six officers and twenty-six men wounded. Lieutenant Hardman's position as adjutant necessarily kept him in the vicinity of his commanding officers, Col. Quentin and Major Howard; therefore he was an eye-witness of poor Howard's death. Lieutenant Hardman received the Waterloo medal. The 10th Hussars landed at Ramsgate, from Boulogne, in January, 1816, and marched to Brighton, where Lieutenant Hardman resigned the adjutantcy, February 8, 1816, and exchanged to half-pay of the regiment, June 6, same year, since which period he has not served upon full pay.

G. L. S.

* * * * *


(Vol. viii., p. 151.)

A. W. H. says, "In the case of many parishes it is stated [in Domesday Book], that there was a church there: is it considered conclusive authority that there was not one, if it is not mentioned in Domesday Book?" This question has, I doubt not, often engaged the attention of antiquaries; and I am somewhat surprised that the Query has elicited no reply. The conclusion has often been drawn that, no church being mentioned, none existed before the survey. It would appear this conclusion has been an erroneous one. In the last volume issued by the Chetham Society (Documents relating to the Priory of Penwortham, and other Possessions in Lancashire of the Abbey of Evesham, edited by W. A. Hulton, Esq.) that point is ably discussed; and as Mr. Hulton's views on a subject of so much interest cannot but be valuable, I venture to extract them, as worthy of a place in "N. & Q." He says:

"Donations of churches with tithes are made directly after the survey of Domesday was taken. And yet that survey is entirely silent as to their existence. Similar omissions have given rise to doubts, whether the institution of our parochial economy had been carried out to its full extent previous to the Conquest, and whether we are not indebted to the Normans for its full perfection. Such doubts are unfounded.... There is nothing in Domesday to justify the doubts alluded to. A consideration of the objects of that survey will dissipate them: the purpose was principally financial. It was directed so as to obtain a correct account of the taxable property within the kingdom. And it was immaterial whether the proceeds were paid altogether to the owner, or a definite portion was diverted into other channels. Therefore those churches which were endowed only with tithes of the surrounding districts, as Eccleston and Croston, Penwortham and Leyland, in Leyland Hundred, and Rochdale and Eccles, in Salford Hundred, were unnoticed, although the two first-named churches were granted by Roger de Poictou, with their tithes and other appurtenances, to the Priory of Lancaster; and the pages of the Coucher Book of Whalley prove the two latter churches to have existed at a date perhaps anterior to the Conquest. But the case was different when a church was endowed with glebe-land. Such a church appeared in the light of a landowner, and in that character is its existence notified. Thus, in modern Lancashire, south of the Ribble, the churches of Wigan and Winwick, Childwall, Walton, Warrington, Manchester, Blackburn, and Whalley are expressly named in Domesday, but invariably in connexion with the ownership of land. It seems clear, therefore, that the silence of Domesday cannot be urged as a proof of the {356} non-existence of a church, or of the subsequent grant of those rights and privileges by which its due efficiency is maintained."—Introd., p. xxiii.



* * * * *


(Vol. viii., pp. 461. 549.; Vol. ix., pp. 3. 204.)

"Ceste noble race de Grantmont."—Brantome.

The following are some of the principal events in the life of the Chevalier de Grammont.

He was born in the year 1621, probably at the family seat of Bidache, in Gascony.

He was sent to the college at Pau in Bearn, the nearest university to the family residence. His studies here did not much benefit him; and although intended for the church, we find him at a later period actually highly commending the Lord's Prayer, and seriously inquiring by whom it was written. On his declining a clerical life, he was sent to the French army in Piedmont in 1643. He served under his brother, the Marshal, and the Prince de Conde; and was present at the three battles of Fribourg on the 3rd, 5th, and 9th Aug. 1644; and at that of Nordlinguen on the 3rd Aug. 1645. It was at the battle of Fribourg that the Prince de Conde, having failed in his first attack on the enemy, got off horseback, and placed himself at the head of the regiment of Conti, whilst all the officers and volunteers alighted also, amongst whom is mentioned the Chevalier de Grammont; and this reassuring the soldiers, they charged the enemy, who fled into a wood under favour of the approaching night. At Nordlinguen, the Marshal de Grammont was taken prisoner, and nearly murdered by the Germans, to revenge the death of their General, the great Mercy, who was slain in the battle. The Marshal was subsequently exchanged against Gen. Gleen.

In 1647 Grammont served again under his brother and the Prince de Conde in Spain: and in 1648 he was present with them at the battle of Lens on the 20th Aug., where the Archduke Leopold and General Beck were totally defeated in Flanders.

The troubles of the Fronde now commenced; and in the first instance Grammont zealously attached himself to the prince. In Dec. 1649, he tested the accuracy of the report that it was intended to assassinate the prince by sending his own coach with the prince's liveries over the Pont Neuf, to see what would occur. The result was, the coach was fired at; but, as no one was in it, the would-be assassins did no harm. During the imprisonment of the princes, Grammont, with others, joined the Spanish army which had advanced into Picardy, in consequence of the treaty the Duchesse de Longueville and Turenne had made with the King of Spain.

We do not find when Grammont left the prince's party; the prince himself admitted it was with honour. He seems to have connected himself with Gaston, Duke of Orleans; and is styled about this time by "la Grande Mademoiselle" as one of her father's gentlemen. She also relates that when the royal forces threatened Orleans, the inhabitants sent to the duke for succour, and he sent the Count de Fiesque and Mons. de Grammont, who appeased their fears. The duke also advised his daughter to take the opinion of Fiesque and Grammont in all matters, as they had been in Orleans long enough to know what ought to be done. When Mademoiselle was trying to effect an entrance into the city, Grammont incited the inhabitants to assist in breaking open a gate, which the authorities, under fear of the royal displeasure, were afraid to direct. The gate was broken open, and she was borne in triumph along the streets.

It was probably at this period that Grammont sighed for the Countess de Fiesque (about whom he, and his nephew the Count de Guiche, quarrelled); as Mademoiselle, in her Memoirs, relates that, in the year 1656, on her interview with Christina, Queen of Sweden, she presented to her, amongst others, the Countess de Fiesque, one of her ladies of honour. The Queen observed: "The Countess de Fiesque is not so beautiful as to have made so much noise; is the Chevalier de Grammont still in love with her?"

In 1654 Grammont accompanied the Court to Peronne; where they anxiously awaited Turenne's attempt to force the Prince de Conde's lines at Arras, as related in the Memoirs.

On the 25th Nov. 1655, Madame de Sevigne writes to Bussi-Rabutin, relating an anecdote in which Grammont was a party.

Madame de Motteville relates that Queen Christina rallied the Chevalier de Grammont on the passion he had then for the Duchesse de Mercoeur, one of Cardinal Mazarin's nieces; and spared him only on account of the utter hopelessness of it.

It is about this period we are inclined to place Grammont's first visit to England; where curiosity, Hamilton informs us, drew him to see so remarkable a character as Cromwell; but this visit will be a good starting-place for the next Number.



* * * * *


(Vol. viii., pp. 174. 280. 353.; Vol. ix., p. 14.)

"Professor F. W. Newman, in his little work entitled Regal Rome, maintains that the old languages of Italy, especially the Umbrian and Sabine, contained a striking predominance of Celtic ingredients, and he wishes to show that this is still evident even in the Latin of Cicero. His proof rests on vocabularies (pp. 19—26.), especially in regard to the military, political, and {357} religious words which he supposes the Romans derived from the Sabines (p. 61.). With regard to these lists, I have to observe, that while all that is valid in the comparison merely gives the Indo-Germanic of the Celtic languages—a fact beyond dispute—Mr. Newman takes no pains to discriminate between the marks of an original identity of root, and those words which the Celts of Britain derived from their Roman conquerors."—Donaldson's Varronianus, p. 64.

"It is to be remarked, that almost all the words of the British tongue agree either with the Greek or Latin. It is this strong similarity of features between their own language and those of Greece and Italy, that has induced so many of my countrymen to claim for it the honour of being the mother-tongue of all, and to scorn all examination which did not commence with this confession. Even the late learned Dr. Owen Pugh has, in his Dictionary, by arbitrarily selecting certain syllables as the roots of all Cumrian words, done much to foster this overweening conceit. The system was carried to its extreme point of absurdity by the Rev. Edward Davies, who by the help of such syllables expected to unravel the mysteries of all languages. This failure has I hope paved the way for the more sober consideration of the question, which, if worked out fairly, will in my opinion establish the claim of the Cumrian tongue, if not to be the mother of all tongues, at least to be a valuable branch of the Caucasian tree of languages. Now, had the two races, the Roman and Cumrian, remained always separate, a comparative etymology would have been an easy task; for no more would be necessary than to put the similar roots, having the same meaning, side by side. But, unfortunately for the scholar who undertakes to prove the question, the Romans were in this island four hundred years, colonised it partly, and partly gave it their own form of civilisation. As before mentioned, the inhabitants adopted with avidity the Roman dress, language, and literature. That language must therefore be supposed to have entered deeply into the composition of the present Cumrian tongue. The sceptical examiner may therefore reasonably object, that any similarity between the two languages might have originated in the adoption of that of Rome by the British provincials. In answer to this I refer in the first place to Lloyd's reasoning, quoted in the note," viz. that the same similarity exists between the Latin and the Erse [see Newman, in the Classical Museum, vol. vi.]. "In the second place to the fact, that Wales and Cornwall do not appear to have been occupied, like the rest of England, by the Romans."... "Still, however, the long residence of the Romans in the island, with the known influence always produced by such a state of things, renders every statement grounded on the similarity alone of the languages of the two races, the conquered and the conquerors, liable to suspicion. I have therefore been compelled to enter upon an exceedingly difficult investigation, which, if successful, must prove the radical identity of the Latin and Cumrian tongues. The proof is this: If there are derivative words in the Latin, of which we must seek the primitives in the Cumrian, and if these primitives be shown to furnish an explanation of many words before inexplicable on etymological principles. For example, if the word 'to tread' under various forms be found, with the meaning 'to trample with the feet,' in most of the western languages of Europe, and have no noun to base itself upon in these languages, and yet the noun 'traed the feet' be found in one of them, the inference is irresistible that the verb in all its forms was derived from this root. To deny this would be equivalent to a denial that the Latin verb calcare came from calx, 'the heel.' In the following list, such words alone, with a few exceptions for the sake of etymological illustration, have been introduced. It might have been indefinitely extended, but the difficulty was to confine the examples within moderate limits."—Williams on One Source of the Non-Hellenic Portion of the Latin Language.[2]

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