Chat log from the meeting on 2012-09-18

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[11:01] BlueWall.Slade I think, too, if you create a linkset that you want to shrink to size after completion, you can only go down to 0.01
[11:01] Nebadon Izumi: i just reminded Justin
[11:01] Nebadon Izumi: oh and here he is
[11:01] Nebadon Izumi: hehe
[11:02] Richardus Raymaker: i hope someone from firestorm see the "object area search" option in singularity and bring that in. wuld be better for all viewers. its good for here if you lose a prim.
[11:02] dan banner: rich: zen, tepot, firestorm can all go down to .001
[11:02] tx Oh: nice train video. have you ever tried sim crossing with it?
[11:02] dan banner: and firestorm has area search
[11:02] Richardus Raymaker: No. only on mega TX. besidesi dont know how to scipt that
[11:02] Nebadon Izumi: hello Justin
[11:03] Richardus Raymaker: cool dan, not found it in firestorm
[11:03] BlueWall.Slade Hi JCC
[11:03] Justin Clark-Casey: hi nebadon, folks
[11:03] Richardus Raymaker: thanks tx
[11:03] dan banner: its there
[11:03] dan banner: hey justin
[11:03] tx Oh: it's really nice
[11:03] Sarah Kline: Hi Justin
[11:03] tx Oh: smooth
[11:03] Tiffany Magic: Vehicles crossing simlines is important.
[11:03] Richardus Raymaker: well, its not a verhicle
[11:03] Nebadon Izumi: I have a problem I want to bring up today
[11:03] OtakuMegane Desu: Need to try Firestorm again. Last timeOS X version was pretty good except it had really screwed up comms with surrounding regions here and in SL.
[11:03] Nebadon Izumi: something just ran across
[11:03] logger sewell: is anyone moding th eopensim-users list i was going to post in there but it's full spam looks like
[11:03] Nebadon Izumi: with pcampbot
[11:03] Nebadon Izumi: it seems pcampbot will not run in Windows
[11:04] Justin Clark-Casey: tjhere's no spam in opensim-users ml
[11:04] Nebadon Izumi: works ok in linux though
[11:04] Justin Clark-Casey: ?
[11:04] logger sewell: ok what are they adds
[11:04] Richardus Raymaker: thats funny neb
[11:04] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: do you know what the problem is no windows
[11:04] Nebadon Izumi:
[11:04] Justin Clark-Casey: on
[11:04] Nebadon Izumi: this is what happens when i try from windows
[11:04] BlueWall.Slade 64 bits?
[11:04] Nebadon Izumi: Skoui brought it to my attention this morning
[11:04] Nebadon Izumi: I am actually going to be using pcampbot this week too
[11:05] Justin Clark-Casey: ah alright, this is the issue where the libomv log4net is not signed whilst opensim users a signed one
[11:05] Nebadon Izumi: and having it work on windows would actually be something i might need
[11:05] Richardus Raymaker: question, why you want to use a bot if you have NPC's ?
[11:05] Justin Clark-Casey: libomv actually accepted my patch to use the same log4net as opensim , just haven't updated yet
[11:05] Nebadon Izumi: going to be doing some load testing stuff
[11:05] Nebadon Izumi: oh ok
[11:05] Nebadon Izumi: hrmm
[11:05] Justin Clark-Casey: in the meantime, it might work if you copy the log4net.dll from the libomv distro
[11:05] Nebadon Izumi: so this will require a libomv update for opensim?
[11:05] Nebadon Izumi: ok
[11:05] Nebadon Izumi: i can try that
[11:05] skoui aironaut: same here
[11:06] Nebadon Izumi: 1 sec i'll try now
[11:06] Justin Clark-Casey: alternatively, you could try compiling latest libomv on windwos and update the opensim libomv dls
[11:06] Nebadon Izumi: is it in their latest release?
[11:06] Nebadon Izumi: or do i need to get it from their svn/git?
[11:06] Justin Clark-Casey: it's in github, not a reease though
[11:06] Nebadon Izumi: ok
[11:06] Mimetic CoreMimetic Core pokes vivk
[11:06] Justin Clark-Casey: but libomv change quite slowly so I wouldn't anticiapate any issues
[11:07] Justin Clark-Casey: richardus: useful for external load testing, since libomv bots take more system resources - a bit closer to 'real' clients
[11:07] Richardus Raymaker: ok.
[11:07] Nebadon Izumi: downloading it now
[11:07] tx Oh: well, they don't load textures and such
[11:07] skoui aironaut: can u link me Nebadon please?
[11:08] Justin Clark-Casey: well, maybe I should just try and fine the time to update opensim's libomv
[11:08] tx Oh: but better than launching 100 firestorm clients :-)
[11:08] Nebadon Izumi: oh
[11:08] Richardus Raymaker: lol,
[11:08] Justin Clark-Casey: actually, pcampbot bots will load textures
[11:08] Nebadon Izumi: will i need to recompile opensim?
[11:08] Nebadon Izumi: cause i am using the 0.7.4 binary
[11:08] Justin Clark-Casey: Nebadon: maybe
[11:08] Nebadon Izumi: and it crashed the same
[11:08] Justin Clark-Casey: maybe not
[11:09] Nebadon Izumi: with new log4net.dll
[11:09] Justin Clark-Casey: you reaplcaed the log4net.dll?
[11:09] Nebadon Izumi: yes
[11:09] Justin Clark-Casey: with the one from libomv?
[11:09] Nebadon Izumi: yep
[11:09] Nebadon Izumi: from github
[11:09] Justin Clark-Casey: curious
[11:09] Justin Clark-Casey: oh no, the one from github is the one I updated, sorry :)
[11:09] Richardus Raymaker: can save lots of work if that fix it for now
[11:09] Justin Clark-Casey: you want the log4net from the last libomv release
[11:09] skoui aironaut: can you give me the distro link so i can try as well please?
[11:09] Nebadon Izumi: oh heh
[11:10] Nebadon Izumi: you have a link to that?
[11:10] Nebadon Izumi: from 0.9.1 release?
[11:10] Justin Clark-Casey: yes
[11:10] Nebadon Izumi: ok
[11:10] Nebadon Izumi: grabbing
[11:11] Nebadon Izumi: eep
[11:11] Nebadon Izumi: now it crashes faster
[11:11] Justin Clark-Casey: with an opensim related problem?
[11:11] BlueWall.Slade "New and Improved - Saves Time!"
[11:11] Nebadon Izumi:
[11:11] Nebadon Izumi: thats the crash
[11:11] Nebadon Izumi: lol BlueWall
[11:12] Nebadon Izumi: 87% faster crashes
[11:12] Justin Clark-Casey: ok, yes, would need an opensim recompile then
[11:12] Nebadon Izumi: ok
[11:12] Nebadon Izumi: let me do that
[11:12] Nebadon Izumi: have to grab source
[11:12] BlueWall.Slade I think LibOMV updates go much better these days
[11:13] Nebadon Izumi: compiling
[11:14] Nebadon Izumi: YAY
[11:14] Nebadon Izumi: it works
[11:14] Nebadon Izumi: its magic!!
[11:14] Richardus Raymaker: Tiffany, not sure if you can good move with llSetPos etc. prims to other region and then let them run further. sofar i know thats still broken. thats why i still vote for good mega's offcorse the load you can spread better with normal sims
[11:14] Justin Clark-Casey: it's just making both libomv and opensim happy with the same lo4net on windows :)
[11:14] Nebadon Izumi: cool
[11:14] Nebadon Izumi: sooo
[11:14] Richardus Raymaker: uhmm i mean move a prim from simulator A to sumulator B
[11:14] Nebadon Izumi: is this something we can fix in core soon?
[11:14] BlueWall.Slade I'm not sure that llSetPos across sim boundaries works in SL
[11:14] Justin Clark-Casey: not a problem on mono for some reason
[11:15] Justin Clark-Casey: I'll try and make the time
[11:15] BlueWall.Slade it didn't in a sandbox unles I sat on the prim
[11:15] Richardus Raymaker: Well, thats why i stay with mega's blue
[11:15] Nebadon Izumi: ok thanks
[11:15] Andrew Hellershanks: I'm back
[11:15] Richardus Raymaker: wb andrew
[11:15] Richardus Raymaker: did you found soemthing new andrew with the memory leak ?
[11:15] logger sewell: wb Andrew
[11:15] skoui aironaut: @Nebadon is it working properly for you then mate?
[11:15] BlueWall.Slade the train has issies in megas because it is looking for region coords. <> 256 sometimes
[11:15] BlueWall.Slade *issues
[11:16] Nebadon Izumi: skoui
[11:16] Nebadon Izumi: 1 sec i will post you a temp binary
[11:16] Nebadon Izumi: that works
[11:16] Richardus Raymaker: ?? the last time i tried it , it worked nice bliue at coordinate > 256
[11:16] BlueWall.Slade at EOL
[11:16] BlueWall.Slade it will keep going
[11:16] skoui aironaut: @Nebadon ok thanks. i tried replacing the 4log file but still the same
[11:17] Nebadon Izumi: ya its a little tricky, you have to recompile it
[11:17] Nebadon Izumi: please test this right away
[11:18] Richardus Raymaker: Bluewall, i dont see why you cannoty prims now in a mega further away then 256meters ? when it worked fine before
[11:18] Nebadon Izumi: almost uploaded
[11:18] skoui aironaut: dont know how to recompile though
[11:18] Dahlia Trimble: hi :)
[11:18] Andrew Hellershanks: I'm caught up on the scroll back now.
[11:18] Justin Clark-Casey: hi dahlia
[11:18] Andrew Hellershanks: Richardus, object area search feature?
[11:18] BlueWall.Slade Hi Dahlia
[11:18] Andrew Hellershanks: SOmeone has an open mic
[11:18] Nebadon Izumi: someones mic is locked open
[11:18] Justin Clark-Casey: skoui: WHat are you looking to do with pcampbot?
[11:18] Nebadon Izumi: skoui
[11:18] Nebadon Izumi: its your mic
[11:18] dan banner: skoui: turn your mic off
[11:18] skoui aironaut: sorry
[11:18] Nebadon Izumi: hehe no worries
[11:19] Nebadon Izumi: and here is the binary
[11:19] Nebadon Izumi:
[11:19] Nebadon Izumi: please try that now if you can skoui
[11:19] skoui aironaut: on it now mate, give me a sec or two
[11:19] Nebadon Izumi: sure
[11:19] Richardus Raymaker: andrew, bluewall say this. [11:15] BlueWall.Slade the train has issies in megas because it is looking for region coords. <> 256 sometimes
[11:19] Andrew Hellershanks: Richardus, I haven't had much chance to do a lot more in tracking down that memory leak. I just have one small change for the code but I doubt it has much effect on memory. Its just a bit of code cleanup
[11:20] Richardus Raymaker: Ok..
[11:20] Richardus Raymaker: so i dont udnerstand bluewall's comment
[11:20] tx Oh: re
[11:20] Nebadon Izumi: wb tk
[11:20] Nebadon Izumi: tx*
[11:20] Andrew Hellershanks: Richardus, yeah. I don't see where the train comes in to the memory leak issue.
[11:21] Nebadon Izumi: thanks for that tip Justin btw
[11:21] Nebadon Izumi: that will be handy this week for me for sure
[11:21] Nebadon Izumi: save me from setting up a bunch of VM's
[11:21] Justin Clark-Casey: well, a guy from kitely did the hard work of finding out why that was happening
[11:21] Nebadon Izumi: nice
[11:21] tx Oh: i justed wanted to say that the flotsam cache works now as it should before years, thanks justin. dynamic textures don't get deleted on expire runs
[11:21] BlueWall.Slade nothing to do with memory leaks - has to do with the train turning around at the end of the track on mega regions becuase part of the information it uses to make the decision to flip is the position
[11:21] Andrew Hellershanks: Richardus, I've been looking for a memory profiling tool I could use. I found a couple ones I'm going to check out but they are windows based ones so I'll have to install them on a remote windows box I have access to which runs OS
[11:21] Justin Clark-Casey: and then I did the work of patching urrent libomv
[11:21] Nebadon Izumi: oh cool tx, i did see your mantis comment
[11:22] Nebadon Izumi: should i close that mantis now?
[11:22] BlueWall.Slade and it can be at positions > 256 just by being in one of the child sims
[11:22] Justin Clark-Casey: tx: cool. Wouldn't have found that issue without your help
[11:22] tx Oh: yes
[11:22] Nebadon Izumi: what is mantis #?
[11:22] tx Oh: close it
[11:22] tx Oh: oeh
[11:22] Andrew Hellershanks: BlueWall, ok.
[11:22] tx Oh: 6295
[11:22] Andrew Hellershanks: That isn't something I was looking at. I haven't dealt with moving objects outside a region (yet).
[11:22] Richardus Raymaker: hmm. sounds like i need to copy the train to a mega and test it to let it ride over 4 regions.
[11:23] Richardus Raymaker: think it works fine
[11:23] Justin Clark-Casey: I'm sure there are lots of megaregion bugs that could be fixed, even if there are a few difficult ones because of the client side issues
[11:23] Nebadon Izumi: ok its closed
[11:23] skoui aironaut: how to try it though nebandon? should i copy some of the files on my bin?
[11:23] Nebadon Izumi: no
[11:23] tx Oh: and as we talk profiles and such... how do you search parcels and people and groups with recent clients?
[11:23] Nebadon Izumi: just run it from that bin
[11:23] Justin Clark-Casey: ultimately opensimulator needs to treat megaregions preoprly as a single region, but that requires a lot of work I think
[11:23] BlueWall.Slade ++
[11:23] Nebadon Izumi: they dont have to be the same bin skoui
[11:24] Justin Clark-Casey: a lot more work< I mean
[11:24] Nebadon Izumi: you can run pcampbot from a different bin
[11:24] Andrew Hellershanks: tx: ossearch and osprofile modules
[11:24] Dahlia Trimble: "treat properly"?
[11:24] skoui aironaut: ok 1 sec
[11:24] Justin Clark-Casey: tx: well, since v3 started using webpages it has been difficult because the URLs are hardcoded in the client
[11:24] Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia: e.g. on the console you aren't still switching between 4 'sub-regions'
[11:24] Richardus Raymaker: yes.. a good opensim viewer would save maby some work. but ii setup a mega to see what happend. ( i lose another 1GB/day) lol
[11:25] BlueWall.Slade JCC -= we will fix that
[11:25] Andrew Hellershanks: I like your shirt, dan
[11:25] Richardus Raymaker: still i see some increase of megaregions in osgrid
[11:25] dan banner: andrew: i think lani made it
[11:25] BlueWall.Slade need to work out the 3-way authentication between our login server, the viewer and the web service platform
[11:26] skoui aironaut: @Nebadon i think is working :D
[11:26] tx Oh: when i press the search button i end up at diva's obscure metaverse ink search engine and can't find anything
[11:26] Tiffany Magic: We would love to put mega regions in our grid, but we here so many negative things that we are waiting for it to stabilize.
[11:26] Nebadon Izumi: skoui awesome
[11:26] Nebadon Izumi: you can use that binary for now
[11:26] Nebadon Izumi: eventually we will get that fixed in our code for good
[11:26] Nebadon Izumi: soon'ish
[11:26] skoui aironaut: BIG THANKS GUYS. u R THE BEST
[11:26] Andrew Hellershanks: SOme day I want to finish what I started re: object searches in the viewer
[11:27] Arielle Popstar: megas are fine if you account for their diufferences
[11:27] Dahlia Trimble: doesnt zen have object search?
[11:27] BlueWall.Slade we need a multi-tier search application that takes Hypergrid in account
[11:27] Dahlia Trimble: I remember using it
[11:27] VivK Lowlag: yes Dahlia
[11:27] Justin Clark-Casey: multi-tier, that's a big word? :)
[11:27] dan banner: firestorm, zen, etc all have area search
[11:27] Nebadon Izumi: I think he means grid wide object search Dahlia
[11:28] Nebadon Izumi: like when you tick the check box on a object
[11:28] BlueWall.Slade MULTI-TIER
[11:28] Dahlia Trimble: oh
[11:28] Nebadon Izumi: to show in search
[11:28] Richardus Raymaker: then you need to tell me a few problems arielle. i know a few. but maby there more
[11:28] Justin Clark-CaseyJustin Clark-Casey prefers n-teir
[11:28] Justin Clark-Casey: n-tier even
[11:28] Nebadon Izumi: heh
[11:28] Andrew Hellershanks: The search that reports on locations of objects is usually done via access to external web page
[11:28] BlueWall.Slade poly-multi-tier
[11:28] BlueWall.Slade lol
[11:28] Dahlia Trimble: I think diva made something like that once
[11:28] Dahlia Trimble: her metaverseink thing
[11:28] Justin Clark-Casey: I think osgrid has that on?
[11:28] tx Oh: yepp but it didn't work well
[11:28] dan banner: metaverseink is useless
[11:28] Nebadon Izumi: its on
[11:28] Nebadon Izumi: but it doesnt work
[11:29] Nebadon Izumi: we actually do collect the info
[11:29] Nebadon Izumi: its just not searchable
[11:29] Nebadon Izumi: hehe
[11:29] Justin Clark-Casey: what does diva say about that?
[11:29] Nebadon Izumi: its ossearch
[11:29] Andrew Hellershanks: ossearch gathers the info and saves it but the search tool isn't there
[11:29] Nebadon Izumi: divas is different module completely
[11:29] Dahlia Trimble: object data is all in regions, they would have to offer it for it to woek
[11:29] Dahlia Trimble: *work
[11:29] tx Oh: i think a full text database would be good for that.. like swish-e or so
[11:29] logger sewell: has anyone heard of this I can login an avatar and rezz fast but on another avatar with the same system it will take 20 min to rezz in the sim ?
[11:29] Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia: I thikn that's what DataSnapshot in core does
[11:29] Nebadon Izumi: ya we do collect it on the grid side db
[11:29] Justin Clark-Casey: the offering up part, that is
[11:29] Nebadon Izumi: its just the connectors for the viewer search is missing
[11:30] Nebadon Izumi: simulator side totally works
[11:30] Dahlia Trimble: isnt it optional tho?
[11:30] BlueWall.Slade well, search in V3 is web based
[11:30] Nebadon Izumi: yes it is optional
[11:30] Nebadon Izumi: but for osgrid release its on by default
[11:30] Andrew Hellershanks: DataSnapshot makes available info about items marked as "show in search" and ossearch parses data from datasnapshot and saves it to a db ready for searching
[11:30] Dahlia Trimble: I dont use osgrid release
[11:30] Nebadon Izumi: incase it does start magically working one day
[11:30] Nebadon Izumi: hehe
[11:30] Sarah Kline: I'm finding stuff, like objects if they are listed in search
[11:31] Sarah Kline: oh but cant tp to them )
[11:31] Justin Clark-Casey: logger: that's a difficult topic
[11:31] Justin Clark-Casey: what I might do soon is turn on appearance uuid resending by default
[11:31] Andrew Hellershanks: The SL type search will show you the region info and description of that location based on matching they search string
[11:31] Dahlia Trimble: what is appearance uuid rendering?
[11:32] dan banner: resending
[11:32] Dahlia Trimble: oh sorry my eyes glitched
[11:32] tx Ohtx Oh eats belgium chocolate ice cream
[11:32] logger sewell: ok it only started to happen since the new upgrade
[11:32] Tiffany Magic: In our grid, we are having some problems since we upgraded to 7.4 that we didn't have before. Major ones are lag... and slow rezzing.
[11:32] Richardus Raymaker: So silly that LL not made the search slurl in xml file
[11:33] BlueWall.Slade Tiffany - using http inventory/textures viewer-side?
[11:33] Nebadon Izumi: some of the long avatar loading stuff could also be the HTTP Caps for Inventory and Textures
[11:33] Nebadon Izumi: if those are disabled from V3 viewers
[11:33] Nebadon Izumi: it can suck horribly bad
[11:33] Richardus Raymaker: hope i can setup soon a new robust test.. testing standalone HG firts
[11:33] BlueWall.Slade RiRa, we can take search url in Teapot, I think
[11:33] Nebadon Izumi: you need to make sure they are enabled
[11:33] Nebadon Izumi: its in OpenSim.ini
[11:34] Tiffany Magic: Thank you Nebadon. We will check that.
[11:34] logger sewell: yes but it's different avatars on the same viewer and machine
[11:34] Justin Clark-Casey: well, ther eare active by default in OpenSimDefaults.ini
[11:34] Nebadon Izumi: Cap_FetchInventoryDescendents2 = "localhost" 
 Cap_FetchInventory2 = "localhost"
[11:34] Nebadon Izumi: ya true
[11:34] Andrew Hellershanks: The search URL can be sent out as part of the login packet
[11:34] Nebadon Izumi: i forgot they are on by default now
[11:35] Justin Clark-Casey: so it should be on unless you're overrinding the defaults (unwittingly or otherwise) or using an old OpenSimDefaults.ini
[11:35] Justin Clark-Casey: certainly doesn't hurt to check though
[11:35] Nebadon Izumi: just make sure your not copying over old ini's or something
[11:35] Richardus Raymaker: as soon teapot have the vector copy i think i can use it
[11:35] Tiffany Magic: It is strange. I can log on my mail account with a huge inventory and it loaded up fast, and sims appear quickly. Then I go to a working alt... with no inventory... and the sims don't even want to rez in.
[11:35] Nebadon Izumi: ya that is odd for sure
[11:35] Tiffany Magic: *main
[11:36] Nebadon Izumi: I have not seen anything like that myself
[11:36] dan banner: me either
[11:36] Arielle Popstar: i do
[11:36] Andrew Hellershanks: I havne't seen anything like that either
[11:36] Arielle Popstar: so have a few i know
[11:36] Nebadon Izumi: this is a grid or a standalone?
[11:36] Tiffany Magic: Grid
[11:36] BlueWall.Slade wonder if that is something confusing the localhost networking?
[11:36] Sarah Kline: me also
[11:36] Nebadon Izumi: k ya that is odd
[11:37] Andrew Hellershanks: I haven't set viewer to http caps related stuff for inventory/rezzing. Just using the default
[11:37] Richardus Raymaker: why is someone sitting on my ?
[11:37] Arielle Popstar: it happens on osgrid quite a bit
[11:37] Richardus Raymaker: oops no. lookkm wrong
[11:37] logger sewell: our data server is an i-7 with 24 gigs of ram and a gig switch
[11:37] Nebadon Izumi: lol
[11:37] Richardus Raymaker: but i see 2 avatars where master is sitting
[11:38] Master Dubrovna: really?
[11:38] Richardus Raymaker: yes
[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: ya there are probably a multitude of reasons why, but Its hard to know without a recipe to create the issue your seeing
[11:38] Justin Clark-Casey: I don't
[11:38] Mimetic Core: doppelganger
[11:38] Master Dubrovna: I don't either
[11:38] Tiffany Magic: All I know is that it is extremely frustrating for our members, and it wasn't that way before the upgrade to 7.4
[11:38] dan banner: all i see is
[11:39] Sarah Kline: Relog Richard
[11:39] Richardus Raymaker: i see andrew and master at same seat
[11:39] BlueWall.Slade Hi Robert
[11:39] Nebadon Izumi: what viewer are you using Tiffany?
[11:39] Robert Adams: hello all.... sorry I'm late
[11:39] Tiffany Magic: Almost all of them. lol
[11:39] Nebadon Izumi: heh ok
[11:39] Richardus Raymaker: hi robert
[11:39] Nebadon Izumi: hello Robert
[11:39] Sarah Kline: Hi Robert
[11:40] Tiffany Magic: Firestorm... Imp... Singularity...even tried Zen and Teapot
[11:40] Nebadon Izumi: i mostly use either Zen or Imprudence
[11:40] Nebadon Izumi: i have a rather large inventory too
[11:40] Richardus Raymaker: zen have broken lsls editor. so waiting until LL have fixt it
[11:40] Nebadon Izumi: at around 44,000 items
[11:40] Tiffany Magic: I've tried changing viewers and it didn't do anything.
[11:40] Richardus Raymaker: lol only around 6K
[11:40] tx Oh: i like coolviewer as a good fallback
[11:40] Tiffany Magic: Then... log on another day with the "slow" avatar, and things rez fine.
[11:41] Richardus Raymaker: never coolvl anymore
[11:41] Dahlia Trimble: hi robert
[11:41] Tiffany Magic: Just to turn around a couple days later and not have the sims load again.
[11:41] dan banner: sounds network related
[11:41] Nebadon Izumi: hmm ya I wish i had an easy solution for you
[11:41] BlueWall.Slade I would think that it is some network issue
[11:41] Nebadon Izumi: those kind of issues suck for sure
[11:41] Andrew Hellershanks: why not coolvl, richardus?
[11:41] Arielle Popstar: do you notice a difference at different regions Tif?
[11:41] Richardus Raymaker: tiffany, is the viewer bandwidth the same in both ?
[11:41] BlueWall.Slade probably a toxic combination of things
[11:41] Andrew Hellershanks: Is Zen a v1 or v3 based viewer?
[11:41] Tiffany Magic: Yes, Richardus
[11:41] Nebadon Izumi: Zen is v3
[11:41] Richardus Raymaker: bad experience with first try , something did not work..
[11:41] dan banner: v3 andrew
[11:41] Andrew Hellershanks: ok
[11:42] Tiffany Magic: The heavily built up areas are, of course, worse than the almost empty ones, Arielle.
[11:42] BlueWall.Slade the users having issues - are they logging in wioth 2 viewers?
[11:42] Nebadon Izumi: what do you have your viewer bandwidth set for?
[11:42] Tiffany Magic: But, it's the inconsistancy that drives us nuts.
[11:42] Andrew Hellershanks: I've gotten used to v3 for SL (mostly) although a few things still bother me a little about it. It helps to have customized the UI and bottons across the screen bottom
[11:42] Nebadon Izumi: sometimes a bit lower is better
[11:42] Arielle Popstar: plazas are aout the only place where my inventory will load consistenly
[11:42] Richardus Raymaker: iandrew, i cant wait for the day i can use it
[11:42] Justin Clark-Casey: if you have low bandwidth issues that sometimes manifests as avatars twitching a lot
[11:43] Justin Clark-Casey: as late movement packets that got dropped are redelivered
[11:43] Nebadon Izumi: ya i suspect plazas are good
[11:43] Nebadon Izumi: because they have 100mb dedicated lines
[11:43] BlueWall.Slade inventory still goes through the region - right?
[11:43] Justin Clark-Casey: everything still goes throug hthe region
[11:43] Richardus Raymaker: if something dont work, TP to a plaza and most it works.
[11:43] Tiffany Magic: Bandwidth on this viewer is set at 2570 kbps
[11:43] BlueWall.Slade so, it doesn't matter about the server spec so-much,
[11:43] Nebadon Izumi: connecting to home routers/modems can have wild mood swings, with bandwidth and network quality
[11:44] Nebadon Izumi: Tiffany
[11:44] Nebadon Izumi: thats too high i think
[11:44] logger sewell: well we have gigbyte switchs so i dont think it a bandwidth issue
[11:44] Arielle Popstar: but if i am the only one on my region then inventory should still still load with my 1MB connection
[11:44] Nebadon Izumi: please try lowering that to 750-1000
[11:44] Nebadon Izumi: and see if things improve
[11:44] BlueWall.Slade 600 is a good speed
[11:44] Arielle Popstar: but it stalls
[11:44] dan banner: i use 750
[11:44] Nebadon Izumi: having it too high can really jam things up
[11:44] Richardus Raymaker: i have limited the upload with QoS, that make things wy more stable.
[11:44] Tiffany Magic: I will try that. Thank you.
[11:44] BlueWall.Slade I'm afk for a while - thanks everyone, good meeting
[11:45] Richardus Raymaker: aloso upload speed is limited in router, so things dont get fast flooded anymore
[11:45] Richardus Raymaker: bye blue
[11:45] Nebadon Izumi: kk BlueWall
[11:45] logger sewell: tc Blue '
[11:45] Dahlia Trimble: qqµJ¦
[11:45] Robert Adams: if you set the viewer BW too high, the server sees a lot of packets being lost and it throttles the transmission BW
[11:45] Justin Clark-Casey: hopefully we can use some of the networking improvmenets ll are making viewer-side
[11:45] Dahlia Trimble: cya blue
[11:45] Justin Clark-Casey: bye bluewall
[11:45] Nebadon Izumi: Ya Robert for sure
[11:45] Dahlia Trimble: you mean the http stuff?
[11:45] Justin Clark-Casey: yes
[11:46] Arielle Popstar: like Tiffany said though, i noticed a real downgrade since .7.4
[11:46] Nebadon Izumi: thats likely the HTTP stuff
[11:46] Nebadon Izumi: you could always try disabling HTTP as a test
[11:46] Nebadon Izumi: just remove the localhost from the caps
[11:46] Nebadon Izumi: so its just ""
[11:46] Andrew Hellershanks: are some viewers using HTTP as default?
[11:46] Nebadon Izumi: in OpenSim.ini
[11:46] Nebadon Izumi: yes Andrew, most
[11:46] tx Oh: i dont
[11:46] Andrew Hellershanks: I thought that was something you had to manually set in Preferences
[11:46] Arielle Popstar: pretty well all i think
[11:47] Richardus Raymaker: sofar i know all new viewers are http default
[11:47] Nebadon Izumi: no most of the modern viewers are all HTTP by default now
[11:47] Nebadon Izumi: the only one i know thats not
[11:47] Nebadon Izumi: is Kokua
[11:47] Sarah Kline: FS defaults
[11:47] Nebadon Izumi: which may even be fixed now
[11:47] Nebadon Izumi: NickyP had a patch and its probably in next version for sure
[11:47] Simulator Version v0.5 shouts: OpenSim 0.7.5 Dev          81fda6f: 2012-09-11 23:43:37 -0400 (Unix/Mono)
[11:47] Nebadon Izumi: but
[11:47] Richardus Raymaker: need to try kokua... someday
[11:47] Nebadon Izumi: in OpenSimulator
[11:47] Nebadon Izumi: we had HTTP off
[11:48] Nebadon Izumi: in 0.7.4 its on by default
[11:48] Andrew Hellershanks: Richardus, I tried it but wasn't impressed.
[11:48] Nebadon Izumi: so if i had to wager a guess
[11:48] Nebadon Izumi: that might be why things seem different
[11:48] Andrew Hellershanks: Richardus, I think its mult-grid support was a little lacking
[11:48] Richardus Raymaker: good change i hit the same bug btw.. aha
[11:48] Nebadon Izumi: worth testing the theory anyway
[11:48] Nebadon Izumi: techincally HTTP should be much better than UDP
[11:48] Nebadon Izumi: especially on home connections
[11:48] Nebadon Izumi: but who knows
[11:49] Arielle Popstar: so i should see improvement turning http off?
[11:49] Nebadon Izumi: our HTTP is far from perfect
[11:49] Arielle Popstar: in viewer?
[11:49] Andrew Hellershanks: Worth checking the network rate setting as was mentioned earlier
[11:49] Richardus Raymaker: then why are people so complaining about the slow get errors this days ?
[11:49] Nebadon Izumi: it would be a good test Arielle
[11:49] Nebadon Izumi: in viewer or simulator
[11:49] Nebadon Izumi: either way
[11:49] Arielle Popstar: ok
[11:49] Nebadon Izumi: slow get are not errors
[11:49] Nebadon Izumi: they are warnings
[11:49] Nebadon Izumi: we print anything that takes more than 3 seconds
[11:49] Nebadon Izumi: for debugging purposes
[11:49] Nebadon Izumi: thats why it seems worse now
[11:49] Nebadon Izumi: it wasnt always like that
[11:49] Nebadon Izumi: they are not errors
[11:50] Richardus Raymaker: its correct lsl errors after compile are disabled this days on console ?
[11:50] tx Oh: is there still udp traffic required??
[11:50] Richardus Raymaker: becasue vierwers dont do linebreaks
[11:50] Nebadon Izumi: i suspect yes there is tx, its just HTTP inventory thats new
[11:50] Richardus Raymaker: hehe
[11:50] Richardus Raymaker: tx oh, that would be fun iof you turn udp off. (keep earplugs handy then)
[11:50] Nebadon Izumi: we have actually been doing HTTP textures for some time
[11:51] Nebadon Izumi: I do not think UDP has completely been eliminated from the login process
[11:51] tx Ohtx Oh sighs..
[11:51] Nebadon Izumi: Justin?
[11:51] Nebadon Izumi: he would know better
[11:51] Richardus Raymaker: note for tx, there sims that disable the caps and http so viewers need to revert back to udp. so the dont get slow warnings and sim problems..
[11:52] tx Oh: would be good to get it all done with tcp (because of webgl clients)
[11:52] Justin Clark-Casey: well, udp has just the same issues
[11:52] Justin Clark-Casey: just they are not surfaced in the same way. In fact, UDP is worst because it can crowd out other UDP data
[11:53] Nebadon Izumi: the question was even with new HTTP Inventory
[11:53] Richardus Raymaker: tcp is more developer friendly sofar i see
[11:53] Nebadon Izumi: there are still UDP processes right?
[11:53] Justin Clark-Casey: absolutely
[11:53] Nebadon Izumi: ok right
[11:53] Nebadon Izumi: I thought so
[11:53] tx Ohtx Oh sighs
[11:53] Justin Clark-Casey: e.g. avatar movement, object movement,, etc.
[11:54] tx Oh: websockets can't do udp
[11:54] Nebadon Izumi: right, but that doesnt mean alternative methods can not be introduced into OpenSim either
[11:54] Tiffany Magic: We seem to also have inconsistant failure in passing inventory items to other people unless they are on the same sim.
[11:54] Robert Adams: we'd have to create a new protocol to go fully to TCP
[11:54] Richardus Raymaker: well, lots can be done with tcp to. only imnportant fast things you do with udp
[11:54] Nebadon Izumi: honestly
[11:54] Nebadon Izumi: WebGL could not do what OpenSim or SL needs
[11:54] Nebadon Izumi: its just not mature enough
[11:55] Richardus Raymaker: Tiffany, that problem i see in osgrid to.
[11:55] Nebadon Izumi: im like 99.9% sure WebGL would fail miserably at the task right now
[11:55] Richardus Raymaker: depends on the mood of the grid / regions :)
[11:55] Nebadon Izumi: with WebGL max draw distance would be like 32m
[11:55] Nebadon Izumi: lol
[11:55] tx Oh: it's mature enough for cloudpartytime
[11:55] Justin Clark-Casey: well, I think there probably is a lot of scope for improvement on how opensim is doing network calls
[11:55] Richardus Raymaker: eeww tx. thats to low
[11:55] Nebadon Izumi: CloudParty is very very different
[11:55] dan bannerdan banner laffs
[11:56] Richardus Raymaker: unless we convert everything to tiny
[11:56] Nebadon Izumi: its great and very impressive
[11:56] Nebadon Izumi: but its far from what OpenSim/ SL can do
[11:56] Justin Clark-Casey: Well, I think one could say sl/opensim tries to do too much
[11:56] Nebadon Izumi: ya probably
[11:56] Nebadon Izumi: any sane game designer would look at OpenSim/SL and say WTF
[11:56] Tiffany Magic: Richardus... we didn't have the issue in 7.1. Did you?
[11:56] Justin Clark-Casey: tbh, I find putting regions from different machines next to each other in view is pretty bonkets
[11:56] Nebadon Izumi: lol
[11:57] Justin Clark-Casey: a big source of fomplexity
[11:57] Richardus Raymaker: i cant remeber tiffany
[11:57] Justin Clark-Casey: bonkers
[11:57] Nebadon Izumi: i like bonkets
[11:57] Arielle Popstar: been more recent Tiffany
[11:57] Richardus Raymaker: with 0.7.1 things worked worse at many sides
[11:57] Arielle Popstar: last couple months maybe
[11:57] Andrew Hellershanks: bonkets?
[11:57] Nebadon Izumi: lol ya justin's typo
[11:57] Nebadon Izumi: hehe
[11:58] Justin Clark-Casey: comes from typing fast and looking at 3 other screens
[11:58] Sarah Kline: fomlexity
[11:58] Nebadon Izumi: Pretty Bonkets, sounds like a band name
[11:58] Justin Clark-Casey: humph :)
[11:58] Nebadon Izumi: hehehe
[11:58] Sarah Kline: )
[11:58] Tiffany Magic: We see great improvements in many ways... but, passing inventory to people on other sims was not an issue before, and is now.
[11:58] Nebadon Izumi: that sounds like HTTP stuff maybe
[11:58] Justin Clark-Casey: well, ideally this stuff is caught when people test the release candidates
[11:58] Nebadon Izumi: it would be good if you could test by disabling the HTTP stuff
[11:58] tx Oh: hmmm.. i didn't tried it yet
[11:58] Richardus Raymaker: how's HG2.0 this days. need to wat another 6 months ? :)
[11:58] Nebadon Izumi: and see if you see improvements
[11:59] Nebadon Izumi: Cap_FetchInventoryDescendents2 = "localhost" 
 Cap_FetchInventory2 = "localhost"
[11:59] Nebadon Izumi: these settings in OpenSim.ini
[11:59] Nebadon Izumi: remove the localhost
[11:59] Nebadon Izumi: just make it = ""
[11:59] Nebadon Izumi: and restart
[11:59] Justin Clark-Casey: richardus: I see diva has been making some additions recently
[11:59] Nebadon Izumi: that will revert you back to UDP everything
[11:59] Justin Clark-Casey: scary looking stuff, to be honest :)
[11:59] Nebadon Izumi: be a good test
[11:59] tx Oh: jcc, tell us more
[11:59] tx Oh: :-)
[12:00] Richardus Raymaker: i expect lots of small HG problems are fixt with 2.0 like standalone HG IM to world. maby inventory give ?
[12:00] Arielle Popstar: as lonng as the new setting are toggable Justin
[12:00] Nebadon Izumi: hard to say its possible stuff like that might improve
[12:00] Justin Clark-Casey: something about being able to control the appearances that avatars use to visit other grids
[12:00] Nebadon Izumi: ya its more about limiting what you can access when you leave your home grid
[12:00] Tiffany Magic: SpotOn does that.
[12:00] Nebadon Izumi: more levels of protection
[12:00] Justin Clark-Casey: inventory give probably wont' be affected by whether you're using http inventory or not
[12:01] BlueWall.Slade AFAIK you can do inventory give over HG now
[12:01] Tiffany Magic: The avatar's clothes change depending on the maturity level of the sim.
[12:01] Arielle Popstar: yes and it is pretty good Bluewall
[12:01] Justin Clark-Casey: inventory give is actually handled by an IM, which still goes over UDP
[12:01] Richardus Raymaker: i know you can bluewall, but like in osgrid. it fail sometimes
[12:01] Nebadon Izumi: we have also seen Inventory give degrade a bit here on OSgrid
[12:01] Justin Clark-Casey: though nowadays its handed off to another thread instead of holding up inbound packet processing
[12:01] Nebadon Izumi: where the sim sort of freezes
[12:01] tx Oh: hmmm..
[12:01] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: still?
[12:01] Nebadon Izumi: it can freeze for 2 to 30 seconds
[12:01] Richardus Raymaker: if your both in the same HG sim it works perfect.
[12:01] Nebadon Izumi: well i dunno lately, dan?
[12:01] Nebadon Izumi: has that improved?
[12:01] Arielle Popstar: passing inventory to someone on another grid is more consistent and faster then inside grid
[12:01] Nebadon Izumi: dan would know better than me
[12:02] Justin Clark-Casey: I thought that was fixed by not using the udp inbound thread for the entire give
[12:02] Nebadon IzumiNebadon Izumi pokes dan in the arm
[12:02] dan banner: passing inv seems okay these says
[12:02] Arielle Popstar: like the hg connectors work better
[12:02] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: don't you rmemeber us discussing that fix?
[12:02] Nebadon Izumi: ok cool
[12:02] Nebadon Izumi: no i dont
[12:02] Nebadon Izumi: lol
[12:02] dan banner: the new thread helps alot
[12:02] Nebadon Izumi: ive been running around like crazy lately
[12:02] Nebadon Izumi: hit the reset button a few times on my brain
[12:02] Nebadon Izumi: lol
[12:02] Richardus Raymaker: narielle, need to test that with my HG standalone
[12:03] dan banner: there are still times things hang but seem to be more related to people logging in or out, etc
[12:03] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, need to go through the one day, thuogh logging in can be very intensive network side
[12:03] Nebadon Izumi: ya, I know in the past after these Tuesday meetings, watching people mass log out
[12:03] Justin Clark-Casey: if a new avatar is making lots of inventory/asset requests
[12:03] Nebadon Izumi: the sim would freeze up sometimes
[12:03] dan banner: yup
[12:04] Nebadon Izumi: not real long though
[12:04] Nebadon Izumi: 10-20 seconds
[12:04] Justin Clark-Casey: I would count 2 secs as long :)
[12:04] Nebadon Izumi: hehe
[12:04] Richardus Raymaker: i see sometimes a freeze. most times it helps to TP again into the same sim. then you can move
[12:04] Nebadon Izumi: you dont go to SL enough Justin
[12:04] Nebadon Izumi: hehe
[12:05] Dahlia TrimbleDahlia Trimble waves bye :)
[12:05] Nebadon Izumi: see you Dahlia
[12:05] Arielle Popstar: waves
[12:05] Justin Clark-Casey: I hav eto think SL is much better :)
[12:05] BlueWall.Slade bye Dahlia
[12:05] Justin Clark-Casey: bye dahlia
[12:05] Nebadon Izumi: heh, and you would probably be wrong
[12:05] Nebadon Izumi: lol
[12:05] logger sewell: tc Dahlia
[12:05] Richardus Raymaker: SL can be so slow with loading..
[12:05] tx Oh: bye
[12:05] Richardus Raymaker: bye dahlia
[12:05] Arielle Popstar: in some ways but in a lot of other ways not
[12:05] BlueWall.Slade you login to sl these days and have 256 sqm holes all round you
[12:05] Justin Clark-Casey: entire regions?
[12:05] BlueWall.Slade yes
[12:06] Justin Clark-Casey: are referring to the slow sl region count decline? :)
[12:06] BlueWall.Slade try to go across the region on the rail system
[12:06] Justin Clark-Casey: ah no
[12:06] Nessie Messy: worryabout it later
[12:06] Nessie Messy: ;p
[12:06] BlueWall.Slade you will be very lucky to make it
[12:07] BlueWall.Slade ohhh, no - the yellow map is another thing
[12:07] Richardus Raymaker: uhh.. i can ride a long part. and there's always some sim thats just gone bluewall. so you crash need to relog. and then try to find the train back
[12:07] dan banner: bluewall ive seen the holes
[12:07] BlueWall.Slade but, they are probably doing something to put the regions to sleep to lower operating costs
[12:07] dan banner: entire regions missing
[12:07] BlueWall.Slade yes
[12:07] Justin Clark-Casey: I did hear about the regio nsleeping stuff
[12:07] Richardus Raymaker: yes. not sure if i have seen it
[12:07] Arielle Popstar: oh and anyone notice scripts bbreaking in the latest osgrid release where it asks to animate avatar?
[12:08] Richardus Raymaker: what i know is that the lower resources. not turn it off
[12:08] tx Oh: is it ok to invite you to the OSGrid Exhibition group while you are here right now? it's a group to anounce exhibitions in osgrid
[12:08] Richardus Raymaker: Arielle, im 1 version behind
[12:09] Justin Clark-Casey: tx: I don't mind, though difficult to ask that of an entire group of people I think
[12:09] tx Oh: :-)
[12:09] Justin Clark-Casey: ok, I need to go hack some php of all things
[12:09] Andrew Hellershanks: Nice
[12:09] Justin Clark-Casey: see you folks later
[12:10] Nebadon Izumi: ok, thanks for help on pcampbot again Justin
[12:10] Nebadon Izumi: talk soon
[12:10] logger sewell: ok Justin tc
[12:10] Tiffany Magic: Bye Justin
[12:10] Justin Clark-Casey: I'll try and update libomv in master soon
[12:10] Nebadon Izumi: thanks :)
[12:10] Robert Adams: bye justin
[12:10] Richardus Raymaker: tx oh, only use group notices. not IM. thats so lag maker for region if the have it enabled. (its off on my sims) only notices
[12:10] Arielle Popstar: tc Jusdtin
[12:10] Richardus Raymaker: bye justin
[12:10] Sarah Kline: bye Justin
[12:10] Arielle Popstar: must have good meet as he stayed overtime :)
[12:10] Justin Clark-CaseyJustin Clark-Casey waves
[12:10] tx Oh: richardus, good point here..
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