Please don't Pass by this question just because this is a Pass question...

Discussion in 'Magic Forum' started by Lord_Magic, Oct 2, 2018.

  1. So...Let's cut to the chase...

    2 problems:-

    1) Problem 1:- So...I love the spread pass because it gives just so much cover for my otherwise tiny hands. The problem is...well...

    Flashing. And nope, not in the usual sense. By that I mean, it's not like it is flashing when the lower packet is BEING moved up. Nah...but it IS flashing when the lower packet has ALREADY MOVED UP. By that I mean, it is sorta visible that some other card came up over the visible card (this ''visible card'' here means the card the spectator THINKS is at the top, but gets passed to the centre or something.)...So it looks like a card magically comes over the visible card, and I don't really like this kind of magic effect...

    2) Problem 2:- This one is simpler to understand actually, anyways...I really wanna learn the turnover pass, since people think so highly of it and also, because I've seen that it is the most ''logical'' looking move ever. But it looks just so...BRUTE! I know all passes look like that initially, but, even the classic pass seems to have some kind of cover atleast! Here, at least, by what I am doing...the front edge is OPEN for flashing? Only the top, that is, MY pov is screened! And that's...well...not really much of a use. Aam I doing something wrong or missing something? Because I'm sure it's not the pass' fault, otherwise it wouldn't be included in the ''best passes'' list and stuff...


    Help appreciated.
  2. The pass is a finicky and for me regardless of hand size it is possible to do so without "flashing". That said with a move like the pass and when you flash its hard to know how to help without seeing how you naturally do the spread pass. No move is going to be 100% invisible. It becomes almost invisible because you can do it without people noticing, not without people seeing.

    So from what you are saying and without seeing it, I suggest working on using it in effects and see how it feels with an audience. You may be surprised to find that timing and angle is all that's needed to do a pass. I have probably one of the sloppiest spread passes out there (from a technical perspective), Yet I can't remember a time where someone "saw it" or anything over the course of 600 shows, and 200 restaurant gigs.

    Make it your own and make it work for you. Or post a video and we can go super technical if that's what you want. ;)
  3. I can't remember where I read it - but I've read that one should master the classic pass first, before worrying adding in covering tactics. The thinking being that if the base technique wasn't solid, then covering motions would just be like painting over a crumbling wall in a building.

    Pick up Jason England's 1on1 for the Pass, and EATCT. In my opinion those are the only sources you need to get a good, solid pass.

    Also - the pass is not meant to be 'invisible'. People should never be looking at your hands when you do the pass. Like Fredrick H said, "timing and angle is all that's needed".

    To that end, make sure it's silent and your top hand doesn't move noticeably, and do it when no one is looking.
  4. Dunno abt master...but I can do it satisfactorily. And I guess in a no-pressure situation, it might really work...but I am too big of a coward to actually do it for someone... have made me feel insecure already, Sir...

  5. That's a whole new thing and I wanna start a new thread about it but, regardless, for the time being...


    Is there any way to lessen the noise?

    If I try to ensure that the packets don't scratch each other, they end up being visible to the spectator, for I separate them out too much...
  6. Loosen up a little bit. My pass is by no means perfect, but when I use a lighter grip it becomes silent.
    Lord_Magic likes this.
  7. I did 4 main things to get my pass to a level I was happy with. They are not all required, but here's what I did:

    1) I read EATCT's section on the Two Handed Shift many times. I double checked finger positions and movements over and over before really committing to practicing so that I didn't train the wrong thing into my muscle memory. Started very slow, and worked up speed later.

    2) Watch Jason England's 1on1 on the pass here on T11. It's a good one.

    3) Practice with a "Pass Trainer". Basically 5 or 6 metal plates that, when stacked, are the same size as a deck of cards but much heavier. Builds the muscles in your hands faster than cards by themselves. This isn't necessary, but it helped me and I ended up using it in the ending of my ACR for a while when I busked.

    4) Practice with two full decks. "My hands are too small for two decks!" No they're not. At least, it's very unlikely. A playing card covers 90% of my palm, and I can do a silent pass with two full decks. It just takes practice.
    Lord_Magic likes this.
  8. So I'll start with saying that the turnover pass is my favourite in-the-hands pass.

    The first time I saw the turnover pass, I just didn't get it. It was so illogical. How would you time everything so that the upper packet would cover up the lower packet?
    The reality is that timing plays no part here. It's basically a cover-up for the Hermann pass. I advise you to check up the Hermann pass on order to understand its mechanics.
    Expert Card Technique gives a beautiful tutorial for the turnover pass. If you follow its instructions precisely, you don't even need to know the Hermann pass—in fact you'll find that the Hermann pass looks extremely incomplete without the turnover cover.
    In my opinion, don't care about the angles just yet. Don't check the mirror. Just get the move right, making sure you've practiced enough that you don't have to consider every factor, and everything goes right automatically. The turnover pass is not a knacky move. It's about coordination—so all you need to learn is how to get natural with the move. Then check the move in the mirror. Assuming you are right handed, practice and do the move with the mirror more towards your right. It doesn't have to be directly on the right — in fact I would discourage you from practising at that angle as it is the safety angle and therefore least likely to be caught.

    Well, that's mostly it, I guess. Hope this helps.
    Lord_Magic likes this.
  9. Hey!
    I agree with everything that has been already said. In general the best way to approach this is to learn the classic pass first. Practice in front of a mirror. Then try to find the pass or the cover that feels the most comfortable to you and stick with it. Pass is the vital move, and there is no perfect way of doing it. Try to see what method works best for you and practice that nonstop. When I started learning the pass I had a deck with all the time, kept swing cutting the deck and passing it back up while walking to school or just sitting in my room. It takes time.
    One last thing, remember that there is no such thing as an invisible pass really. The reality is that the pass and the majority of the control moves rely on a certain degree of misdirection and cover. As long as your spectators are unaware of the pass, then you have done a good pass.
    Keep up the good work and keep practicing :)
    Lord_Magic likes this.

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