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« Big boxes full of little boxes | Main | Two cheers »

Jul 19, 2012




Romney has always refused to release tax returns, so it's a safe assumption that he is either opposed to that as a matter of principle, or that he believes information in the returns would be politically damaging. Or, both.

If it has been a matter of principle, then why hasn't he built the case for that, and why that principle applies to him, but not to his father and other candidates.

He is, essentially, trying to make the case that he won't release his returns beause he is "special" in some unexplainable sense, and should be exempt from the house rules.


He released 2010 and says he will for 2011, so I don't think it's a matter or principle.


Some speculation on what might be in Obama's unreleased transcripts and why it is important.


nice pivot.

Andrew Brod

Did Romney in fact release 2010?

Andrew Brod

Okay, let's look at Frog's link. According to that conservative blogger...

"Ultimately, getting the President’s college transcripts is not really about vetting the President. It’s part of vetting the mainstream media."

Yes, it's exactly the same!




Thanks, Andy.

Interesting, this:



Go polifrog's go!

The call for Obama's transcripts reaches a fevered pitch, and then he releases them. And he's got, like a 4.0 average. And then they'll be called forgeries, and then Obama wins reelection and the people who think Obama ate his dog (polifrog's link) freak out in mass hysteria; treatment will be covered under Obamacare, but most will refuse, fearing they may never return from "hospitalization" (shhhh... internment).


This thread aptly demonstrates that the importance of disclosure as a truly held value is relative.

This thread also demonstrates that whether speculation is justified is relative.

Why do we need Romney's tax records from 2009? Why do we need Obama's college transcripts?

They are only relevant for purposes of political exploitation.

Andrew Brod

Yes, they're exactly the same!


"This thread aptly demonstrates that the importance of disclosure as a truly held value is relative." -- Sam

You are of the opinion that Obama should release his college transcripts and Romney should release his tax returns back to the Bain years then or is the value of disclosure relative for you too?


Romney has an interesting dilemna and I am curious to see how he chooses to handle it. It is entirely possible that his returns will not be ready until a few days before 10/15...It is basic partnership practice that your 10-Q's for the final year take 9 to 10 months to accurately calculate (especially given the large # of states he had to pay taxes to in his 2010 returns). I wonder if he chooses to take a stand and say tax returns have no bearing on my ability to lead...Although, after re-reading G. Friedman's "The Next 100 years"; I remain convinced the Mayor of a large city has much greater impact than the President of U.S. (no dog in this presidential race)


Probably gonna find out that Romney was involved in some kind of shady land deal with Tony Rezko which should help to escalate the mindless liberal hysteria.

Andrew Brod

If Romney was involved with Rezko, Republicans would decide that dealing with Rezko was a perfectly okay thing to do.

Of course at some point they'd realize the political dissonance and their heads would explode.

Ed Cone

The many fine and illuminating comments here aside, and without consideration of what should or should not matter, it appears that this tax thing could emerge as a substantial problem for the Romney campaign.


Roch, I think the same standard should be applied. Both disclose or neither discloses.

So what say you, Roch? Agreed?

Ed's last comment only confirms this is all about politics and his speculation about Romney's taxes are no different than the speculation about Obama. But the old "we're not talking about that" has again been deployed.

Nobody is going to give a shit about Romney's taxes. Everyone knows he's rich. This is a media story. People will vote their pocketbooks, not what's in Romney's.

Ed Cone

Hey, who got politics in my politics?

At the risk of repeating myself, it's not a question of what should matter, but what will matter. And my sense is that Romney has painted himself into a corner, and that the what-is-he-hiding ads featuring all those GOP govs pundits et al this fall are going to be damaging.

The one easy out I see is for the returns to be made public, and reveal nothing too negative. But that may not be possible.

Not saying the other conversation is pointless, just that it is not going to untrap Romney or make a difference in this campaign.


Sam, are of the opinion that Obama should release his college transcripts and Romney should release his tax returns or should both release neither? Saying there should both do the same thing, without saying what that thing is, is dodging my question,.


My understanding is that Romney has already stated he will not be releasing older tax returns, at least according to Jerry Johnson's link.

Furthermore, considering the lack of impact Obama's Bane attacks have had, it is unlikely Romeny will change his mind.


Frog, you keep pointing to right-wing agenda-driven sites as if anyone is going to give them any credence. We know you have no choice but to believe them, seeing as how the "mainstream media" is a den of cocaine-snorting gay Marxist insurrectionists with fake Hawaii birth certificates.

I go know to play with my dog, Engels.

cocaine-snorting gay Marxist insurrectionists with fake Hawaii birth certificates.

Not so sure about the Hawaii birth certificates... but the rest is undeniable.

sal leone

I think people need to relax with the President, they voted for him the first time and now they want to research his college years. The issue with Pat is that he does not want to release his taxes because they will show he is paid a large sum of money to do nonthing but the salary will be repaid once back in office. I wonder if people are really stupid sometimes, when someone refuses to release records and then releases certain records then its clear, HIDING SOMETHING.

I might be mistaken but the President graduated Harvard, even if he got a 2.0, its Harvard and not GTCC,lol.


No I'm not, Roch. I have pointed out that there is no value in either other than political points. That being the case, they should be dealt with equally. Either they both get to play, or neither does.


I agree on the value of consistency, that's almost a given. I am less sure of your personal opinion of what each candidate should do and that's why I asked (and still hope you'll answer). Consistent, sure. In which direction? Transparency or secrecy?


It should be consistent, yes, but consistent for the same documentation. In other words, those asking for Romney's tax returns should be asking for Obama's tax returns - not his school transcripts. Those asking for Obama's school transcripts should be asking for Romney's school transcripts. Those asking for Obama's birth certificate should be asking for Romney's birth certificate...

David Hoggard

Agreed, Anthony. Straight answers are rare hereabouts.

The back and forth of "you haven't answered the question(s)/I answered your question(s)/ I won't answer your question until you've answered mine" is pervasive, fruitless and tedious.

I really don't care what is in Romney's returns from a 'qualification to govern' perspective, I'm guessing he made a bunch of money and paid little taxes. But I'm confident it was all quite legal. So what is the opposition going to do? Slam him for following our stupid-ass tax laws?

If I were Romney, I would release the tax returns while simultaneously launching tax reform initiative that would correct the loopholes that made such a return possible. Now THAT would be a game changer.

Andrew Brod

It's also something Romney will never do.

David Hoggard

I'm just a 'in a perfect world' kind of guy.



All of what you theorize is most likely true, but if so, what, in your opinion could possibly keep Romney from releasing them then? Do you think paying zero or near zero in taxes is reason enough to keep them private? I'm sure he would take a hit from such a disclosure, but can it seriously be worse than the blowback he's receiving now for resisting calls to do so?

Andrew Brod

The Romney campaign apparently thinks so.


Meanwhile, it's become pretty obvious that the attacks on Romney over the tax returns and his Bain ownership are having no significant effect, except to keep various "progressives" busy,as exemplified on this thread, and otherwise out of trouble.

Look for them to abandon this failed line of attack as soon as they can find some other equally shallow talking point.


yes, andrew, you should thank god for this topic otherwise you'd be back to vandalizing property and playing on old people's lawns, for sure.




Yeah, he surly gets a break from te double duty of defending Keynesian economic vandalism and QE's reliance on the assets of old people.

But in this climate he has earned a break.


Sam, responding to a question is not the same thing as answering it, which you haven't, and pretending otherwise is a type of dishonesty that is beneath you.


Okay Roch, at the risk of indulging your most annoying traitRoch, I'm not going to indulge your act any further on this. As usual, what is apparent to everyone else is lost on you. I see no arguments for or against either disclosure beyond political value and my answer reflects my view accordingly.


Typos suck. So do touchpads. You get the point.


The problem with being disingenuous, Sam, is that you end up eventually contradicting yourself (which, in your book, is proof positive of hypocrisy, if I'm not mistaken).

"I see no arguments for or against either disclosure..." -- Sam today (above)
"Now if Obama would only release his college transcripts after all of this time". -- Sam, last week

Andrew Brod

Get a room, you two.


Gee you're thick, Roch.

The first quote is in the context of having both parties treated the same either way.

The second quote simply reaffirms that principle because it is a response to a call for Romney's tax returns.

You should stop trying to play "gotcha" with me. You lose every time and make yourself look bad.


Take a hike, Andrew.

"The second quote simply reaffirms that principle because it is a response to a call for Romney's tax returns." -- Sam

Sam. You say all candidates should be treated equally. It's "principle," you say. Obama should release his grades, you say. Yet, the principle gets thrown by the wayside in your refusal to also say that Romeny should release his tax returns.

I'm sorry noticing that upsets you enough to insult me, but it's your doing, not mine. Don't blame me for the embarrassing corner you've painted yourself into.


When I said you were thick that was an understatement. If there is common ground among the local online crowd I submit that it is agreement that you (Roch) have the most bizarre and nearly impenetrable thought process that you probably think is genius.

Can't help you, man. Sorry.


So, you're changing the subject?


Roch, you should probably send a private email to one of your friends from this forum and ask them if they think that you are starting to look pretty foolish at this point. Hopefully in confidence they will tell you the truth.


My Friends From This Forum , by Roch Smith

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