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Clinton, Trump Face Off on Economy and Trade; Trump: China Using America as a Piggy Bank; World's Oil Producers Meet in Algeria; Debate Breaks Record as Most-Watched in U.S. History; England's Football Manager Steps Down Over Undercover Sting. Aired 4-5p ET

Aired September 27, 2016 - 16:00:00   ET


[16:00:00] TRUMP: .stamina. To be president of this country, you need tremendous stamina.

HOLT: The quote was, "I just don't think she has the presidential look."

TRUMP: You have -- wait a minute. Wait a minute, Lester. You asked me a question. Did you ask me a question?

You have to be able to negotiate our trade deals. You have to be able to negotiate, that's right, with Japan, with Saudi Arabia. I mean, can you

imagine, we're defending Saudi Arabia? And with all of the money they have, we're defending them, and they're not paying? All you have to do is

speak to them. Wait. You have so many different things you have to be able to do, and I don't believe that Hillary has the stamina.



can talk to me about stamina.


TRUMP: The world -- let me tell you. Let me tell you. Hillary has experience, but it's bad experience. We have made so many bad deals during

the last -- so she's got experience, that I agree.


But it's bad, bad experience. Whether it's the Iran deal that you're so in love with, where we gave them $150 billion back, whether it's the Iran

deal, whether it's anything you can -- name -- you almost can't name a good deal. I agree. She's got experience, but it's bad experience. And this

country can't afford to have another four years of that kind of experience.

HOLT: We are at -- we are at the final question.


CLINTON: Well, one thing. One thing, Lester.

HOLT: Very quickly, because we're at the final question now.


pregnancy is an inconvenience to employers, who has said...

TRUMP: I never said that.

CLINTON: .... women don't deserve equal pay unless they do as good a job as men.

TRUMP: I didn't say that.


them. And he called this woman "Miss Piggy." Then he called her "Miss Housekeeping," because she was Latina. Donald, she has a name.


CLINTON: Her name is Alicia Machado.

TRUMP: Where did you find this?


TRUMP: Oh, really? CLINTON: ... she's going to vote this November.

TRUMP: OK, good. Let me just tell you...


HOLT: Mr. Trump, could we just take 10 seconds and then we ask the final question...




But you want to know the truth? I was going to say something...

HOLT: Please very quickly.

TRUMP: ... extremely rough to Hillary, to her family, and I said to myself, "I can't do it. I just can't do it. It's inappropriate. It's not

nice." But she spent hundreds of millions of dollars on negative ads on me, many of which are absolutely untrue. They're untrue. And they're


And I will tell you this, Lester: It's not nice. And I don't deserve that.

But it's certainly not a nice thing that she's done. It's hundreds of millions of ads. And the only gratifying thing is, I saw the polls come in

today, and with all of that money...

HOLT: We have to move on to the final question. TRUMP: ... $200 million is spent, and I'm either winning or tied, and

I've spent practically nothing.



Secretary Clinton?


And I know Donald's trying very hard to plant doubts about it, but I hope the people out there understand: This election's really up to you. It's




are a nation that is seriously troubled. We're losing our jobs. People are pouring into our country.



800. And now it turns out it might be 1,800, and they don't even know.

[16:05:01] HOLT: Will you accept the outcome of the election?

TRUMP: Look, here's the story. I want to make America great again. I'm going to be able to do it. I don't believe Hillary will. The answer is,

if she wins, I will absolutely support her.



everything as I suspected we would.


Vegas. The conversation will continue.

A reminder. The vice presidential debate is scheduled for October 4th at Longwood University in Farmville, Virginia. My thanks to Hillary Clinton


PAULA NEWTON, CNN ANCHOR: That was feisty enough for you or what? That was the first faceoff between Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump. And we

have to say, it did live up to expectations. It consisted of more than 90 minutes, as you just saw, of fierce debate, policy expectations, and really

some down and dirty jabs.

Good evening, I'm Paula Newton, and this is a special edition of QUEST MEANS BUSINESS. It was scorcher of a debate that covered the economy,

trade and U.S. race relations, and when it was all done, viewers weighed in saying Hillary Clinton came out on top. Of course the real test will come

November 8th when Americans head to the polls.

We're going to dish out some commentary here. Joining me now Ali Velshi is a global affairs and economic analyst, Betsy McCoy is a Trump supporter and

former lieutenant government of New York, and Emily Tisch Sussman is the campaign director of the Center of American Progress Action Fund and a

Clinton supporter. Thank you all. Like I said -- well thank god it lived to expectation, right. There was nothing boring in that debate. Emily I'm

going to ask you first. A lot of the polls say -- the majority of the polls say that Hillary Clinton won. She came out on top on that. Does it

make any difference? Is it going to move the needle at all for her?

EMILY TISCH SUSSMAN, CAMPAIGN DIRECTOR, CENTER FOR AMERICAN PROGRESS FUND: I think it does. And I think that we saw how high the interest was by how

many people tuned in last night and how many people are talking about it today. People are very interested and were very serious about watching

closely what happened in last night's debate. I think two things happened. I think Clinton was very strong. She was specific. She was clear. She

was calm. She showed she had the temperament and ideas to take on the large issues that the country is facing.

I think separately, Trump did not rise to the occasion. I actually thought he would come better prepared for the debate. I thought he would really

bring something new. We did not see anything new from him. And it showed that he was very thin skinned. It was very easy for Clinton to get under

his skin.

NEWTON: Betsy, why didn't we see anything new from Donald Trump?

BETSY MCCOY, TRUMP SUPPORTER: Well, actually I looked at the debate quite differently. And several of the polls suggest that Trump supporters think

he won. And here's why. A lot of Americans look at this debate as a contest between the blabber and the builder. After all Hillary Clinton

talks for a living. Sometimes getting $.5 million at the podium. And she is very practiced at it. And she had maybe 100 carefully scripted, very

memorized kinds of answers. She was smooth. But Americans are sick of politicians who just yap, yap, yap, say things, and then don't do anything

about it.

Trump really scored big points by reminding the public that that's what politicians do. He said again and again, you've been hearing this this

from Hillary Clinton for 30 years. She says she has a plan to fix this or that, but why hasn't she done it?

NEWTON: But even if that's true, Ali, did they hear from Donald Trump what he would do in her shoes.

ALI VELSHI, GLOBAL AFFAIRS AND ECONOMIC ANALYST: Part of the problem here is that it is very hard on economy, on trade and things like that to

evaluate both candidate's proposals, because Donald Trump is lacking some specificity. So as he gets a little more specific, it allows economic

analyst to take a look at his programs and see what they'll cost. Now what Hillary Clinton was able to do was to say, for instance, that her plans

would add -- really say how much it would add, but we know it would be about $200 billion over 10 years to the deficit. She did point out that

Donald Trump's proposals would add about $5.3 trillion to the deficit and take us above that threshold of 100 percent debt to GDP. Donald Trump

needs to stay a little more focus on his economic message and be very specific as to how he would achieve this 3 1/2 percent growth that he wants

to achieve for the country.

NEWTON: And instead what he did was launched a lot of economic hand grenades. Let's listen to one right now where he talked about the U.S.

economy and Janet Yellen in particular.


TRUMP: We are in a big, fat, ugly bubble. And we better be awfully careful. And we have a Fed that's doing political things. This Janet

Yellen of the Fed. The Fed is doing political -- by keeping the interest rates at this level.


[16:10:00] NEWTON: Ali, if you just want to bounce off that right now. I mean, look, Janet Yellen said last week, it's ridiculous, we are not

involved in politics. And yet isn't it something that resonates with many people?

VELSHI: It does, and there is a reason it does and it should. And that is you could look at this as all being one class of people, right? The

politicians and the Fed. There is no reality that the idea that the Fed is political or that they are doing things at the behest of the president or a

given party. There is truth to the fact that rich people think the way to keep an economy goosed is to keep interest rates low. Now, if you're a

regular working person who doesn't get involved in stocks, saves your money, this low interest rate for the last eight years has been terrible

for you.

MCCOY: Especially for the elderly.

VELSHI: For the elderly for instance. There is a reason why it angers people. But there's no evidence -- there have been accusations for decades

about how the Fed is apolitical operation. Everybody in every country thinks that their central bank's political. It's not.

NEWTON: Betsy, as a strategy though did that work?

MCCOY: I'm not sure it did, but I was a little concerned that the moderator who was obsessed with fact checking on things like birtherism, or

who was for or against the Iraq war a decade ago. Didn't focus in on much more important fact checking issue and that is that Mrs. Clinton keeps

saying she wants corporations to pay their fair share. And I wish he had asked her, "Well, Mrs. Clinton, what is the fair share?" Corporations in

the United States pay the highest rate in the world.

VELSHI: I think you're right. The fair share is a hard one to figure out.

NEWTON: I want to weigh in here for a second and then we will go to another point.

SUSSMAN: I think we're doing right now is what I think we were afraid was going to happen going into the debate, is holding the two candidates to two

very different standards. You yourself just said is that what Trump did was that he should stick more to an economic message. He can't get away

from things that are personal to him. Most of what he said in the debate last night had to do with his own wealth, promoting his own interests, his

own business, and his own personality. And that was the majority --

NEWTON: And more to the point, it proved to be an Achilles' heel. Betsy, I want everyone here now to listen to Hillary Clinton talking to Donald

Trump about his taxes.


CLINTON: Maybe he's not as rich as he says he is. Second, maybe he's not as charitable as he claims to be. Third, we don't know all of his business


doesn't want the American people, all of you watching tonight, to know that he's paid nothing in federal taxes .


MCCOY: That was the kind of suggestion that really needs to be fact checked. But the fact is this is very much out of the Democratic Party

playbook. Tax shaming, I call it. The fact is that somebody who is a builder like Donald Trump, would be very foolish to release his taxes

whether he's under audit or not.

SUSSMAN: Does he not get to be the president then?

MCCOY: The fact is that a builder is very unlikely to pay anything near the top rate as Ali would say, because of property tax deductions,

investment tax credits, depreciation allowances. And yet most politicians do pay the top rate because they have speaking fees, royalties and a

paycheck from the government.

VELSHI: The problem, Betsy, is that right after that clip, Donald Trump got on the mic and said, "That's because I'm smart." And I thought at that

moment, it's the wrong message to suggest that the 50 some odd percent who do pay taxes are stupid.

MCCOY: No. He should have said -- I would have said, that's because I am fully taking advantage of the deductions that Congress has passed to

encourage me to build buildings.

VELSHI: Hence my point. If he would just generally get more specific about the things he that he has to say, one would be able to target him a

little less. Because then you can evaluate, well, is that a truthful statement or not? It is a truthful statement. In other words, Hillary

Clinton wants to imply he's doing something wrong by not paying taxes. And what he's saying is I'm following the law. If you think the law is wrong,

you have to change it.

SUSSMAN: And all of this would be put to rest if he did release them. We would not have to have this conversation if he did.

MCCOY: We would spend the rest of this campaign picking apart his tax return instead of focusing on big issues such as what are our tax returns

going to look like in 10 years and we can earn more money.

NEWTON: But sometimes in picking through his tax return, you learn what's wrong with the tax code, and people are going to get something from it.

MCCOY: I wish it were that constructive.

NEWTON: Let's give Donald Trump some advice on what he did right in the debate, perhaps. Some people thought, let's take a listen to his comments

on trade.


TRUMP: You called it the gold standard.


TRUMP: You called it the gold standard of trade deals. You said it's the finest deal you've ever seen.




NEWTON: Emily, this is a real Achilles' heel for Hillary Clinton. And even though Trump didn't do it this time, do you worry that he's going to

learn his lesson? We're going to see Trump unleashed during the next debate. And he's kind of insinuated as much.

[16:15:00] SUSSMAN: I think that Clinton gave the clearest answer that she's given. I think she's struggled with this during the primary when she

was having the same conversation about trade with Sanders. When he was saying he was fully against and she was saying it's a more nuanced

perspective and we do need to have trade agreements. We are not an isolationist economy. And I think she gave the clearest answer that she

had yet that we are 5 percent of the world. We need to trade with 95 percent of the world. And she will evaluate every trade deal that comes

before her by the same standard. Is it good for jobs? Is it good for workers? Is it good for the American economy as a whole? And I think that

the clearest, most concise answer that she's given yet, and I think she'll stick with it.

MCCOY: But it's not good enough. I can tell you because when I was lieutenant governor of New York State, we saw jobs disappear from New York

State, from Syracuse, from Buffalo, from Rochester. And when Hillary Clinton ran for the Senate in New York State, she promised she would bring

those jobs back and she never did. And when she was in the Senate and thereafter, she has supported a lot of trade negotiations, trade deals,

that are very bad for that part of the country. Upstate New York, Ohio --

VELSHI: Betsy, as a Canadian, let me tell you, I hear the message, there was jobs done from buffalo, and Rochester, and Syracuse, and the Rust Belt

Way before there was a NAFTA.

MCCOY: But much worse now.

VELSHI: But he should concentrate on what did NAFTA do to those places? That whole belt --

MCCOY: Syracuse, China. Left Syracuse went to Mexico.

VELSHI: We can find more examples, but the fact is companies because of trade and technology, manufacturing companies have been leaving American

shores for decades.

MCCOY: It's much worse now.

SUSSMAN: We need to focus on an economy of the future that is going forward, we do need infrastructure.

MCCOY: Tell somebody like my dad who worked --

NEWTON: You're giving our international audience a great taste of the debate to come. We have to have you back. Thankfully we don't have to

wait that long for the next debate a week from Sunday. Thank you all. Will continue to look forward to your analysis on this, appreciate it.

In the meantime, the Dow closed 133 points higher. How did that happen? It was a tough day though for car rental stocks. Avis is down 8 percent,

and Hertz fell about 10 percent out of worries about European demand. Paul La Monica joins me now. I mean, Paul, getting back to this whole issue

about what the market thought about the debate, look -- it was stunning we all actually had numbers saying things like consumer confident, nine year

high today, and this implicit argument that look, Hillary Clinton will be the status quo, and that is good for market.

PAUL R. LA MONICA, CNNMONEY CORRESPONDENT: I think that is the take away if you look at what stocks did on Wall Street today. Despite many

criticisms of some of Obama's economic policies, many on Wall Street are still happy with them and they view a Clinton presidency as potentially

nothing much different than what a third term of a President Obama presidency would look like. I think that probably you talk about consumer

confidence that being a peek on the surface could be good news for Hillary Clinton. It shows that investors and consumers are happy with the status

quo, but consumers are notoriously bad at predicting where the economy and market is going to go next. This is a nine year high. 2007, right before

the global economy completely fell apart, because of Bear Stearns and Lehman and all the credit problems that we saw that deutsche bank is still

paying the sins for. I'm a little worried that consumers might be too sanguine right now and if things start to go south in the next few weeks,

that's obviously something that Donald Trump will hit on.

NEWTON: Yes, an important issue. And this campaign has been extraordinary. Donald Trump talking about cutting taxes to business and he

is still not seen as the solid candidate for the market going forward. Paul La Monica, continuing to look at all the analysis there, I appreciate


Donald Trump said China is using the U.S. as a piggy bank, a closer look at his plan to stop it, that's next.



[16:20:59] TRUMP: You look at what China is doing to our country in terms of making our product. They're devaluing their currency, and there's

nobody in our government to fight them. And we have a very good fight. And we have a winning fight. Because they're using our country as a piggy

bank to rebuild China.


Yes, it took Donald Trump less than ten seconds to call out China at last night debate. The Republican presidential candidate reiterated his

accusation that the country is a currency manipulator. The theme he's had on time and time again throughout this campaign. Eswar Prasad, is a senior

fellow at the Brookings Institution and professor of trade policy at Cornell University. This is certainly a topic you know intimately. You

know that on soccer fields and at kitchen tables around this country what he just says resonates. How do you convince people? I'm sure you going to

tell me Donald Trump is wrong.

ESWAR PRASAD, SENIOR FELLOW, BROOKINGS INSTITUTION: It certainly resonates, but actually both of the assertions that Mr. Trump made are

wrong. In fact, over the last year and a half, China has been intimating in foreign exchange markets to prevent the renminbi, the Chinese currency

from falling too quickly. So they've actually been doing the U.S. a favor by not letting the currency depreciate too fast. Second the notion of

China using the U.S. as a piggy bank, in fact, China has about $1.25 trillion parked in the U.S. treasury security instruments. So their

financing U.S. borrowing from the rest of the world. Not having the U.S. finance their allotment.

NEWTON: And yet that's something that Donald Trump has also exploited saying, look, China owns us, that can't be a good thing.

PRASAD: certainly, the one thing that is true is that the U.S. does run a large and increasing trade deficit with China. Because the U.S. has been

doing quite well right now. Chinese growth is slowing. And the deficit certainly has been rising. Now part of it is because a lot of exports from

other Asian countries are going through China. Now, China has been giving the U.S. a reasonable amount of access to its markets. But there's

certainly an overlay of concern about what is happening with free trade. And certainly some industries have not been doing so well, because of free

trade and an atmosphere of low growth and economic uncertainty. Certainly confronting the bogeyman on the outside is a lot easier than looking at

U.S. economic policies. And Mr. Trump is playing to that.

NEWTON: And the structural problems. In terms of talking to that exposure to China, Ken Rogoff, who is the former chief economist for the IMF,

basically said that look, if you want to look at credit problems around the world, look at China. If we want to talk about bubbles, look at China. Do

you think that is over played or do you think it is a huge risk for the world economy and obviously here in the United States?

PRASAD: It is a big risk for China but not quite for the reasons that one might think about. In the past countries that have had such high levels of

debt, especially such high levels of corporate debt, have ended up facing crises. But China is particular in a couple of ways. First of all, it

doesn't have a lot of external debt, so most of it is financed domestically. Second, the Chinese government owns most of the borrowers

and lenders. The banks have a fairly good space to play with and the government has a lot of room on fiscal policy. The budget deficit isn't

very large.

I think that the right question to ask about China is number one, are they getting the financial system working so that it allocates capital to the

most productive sectors, to the most productive industries that can generate employment? And second, how big is it going to be in terms of a

cost to fix the Chinese financial problems. There are big problems. If they fix them soon, if they get the financial system going in the right

direction, it'll be costly, but it can be managed. So I think that crisis is not what is most likely, but it's going to be very costly.

NEWTON: In a lot of your work, you pointed out that this is really a watershed moment. So the IMF will be including the renminbi and one of its

reserve currencies. That is a huge watershed. Why and what is going to be different in that world economy and in the role that China plays within it?

PRASAD: It is a symbolically momentous event that the IMF will include in its artificial currency basket called the special drawing rates or SDR. The

renminbi -- right now there are four big reserve currencies, the U.S. dollar, the euro, the Japanese yen, and the British pound sterling.

[16:25:00] So it's a big deal for an emerging market countries currency to be included in that elite group. Is it going to be an immediate game

changer? Probably not, because ultimately what matters, not just the IMF's implementer or seal of approval, but whether China has the right kind of

financial markets. Whether investors trust China, whether it's going to have easy access to China's capital markets. None of these is assured yet.

So the Chinese renminbi is going to start becoming more important in international finance. The chances that it will become a safe haven

currency that investors turn to for trust, that the renminbi will suddenly take over and rival the dollar. Little prospect of that happening.

Thank you so much for coming in, as China continues to play a role even in this election, it's very important to hook at the economic facts about it.

Thank you, appreciate your time.

Now Saudi Arabia is taking drastic measures to cope with the fall in oil prices. It's cut the pay and benefits of top officials by 20 percent in an

effort to plug its large budget deficit. Crude prices on Monday were down 3 percent. OPEC members and non-OPEC members are meeting in Algeria where

hope for a deal on freezing production remains elusive even after extensive talks. CNNMoney's emerging markets editor, John Defterios has our report.


JOHN DEFTERIOS, CNN MONEY EMERGING MARKETS EDITOR: It was an old rivalry played out before 70 countries here at the international energy forum,

which held back at the amongst the world's major oil producers. Differences between Saudi Arabia and Iran surfaced after a number of

closed-door meetings. At the end of the day the two largest exporters Saudi Arabia and Russia gave us status of where things stand.

Is it a cut? A collective cut? Or we just limited to a freeze?

KHALID AL-FALIH, MINISTER OF ENERGY, SAUDI ARABIA: It depends on what month do we freeze at. Some months if we agreed to freeze at earlier this

year, which is one of the proposals on the table. It will be called a freeze, but it will contain a collective cut.

ALEXANDER NOVAK, MINISTER OF ENERGY, RUSSIA: Any way to keep growing naturally and if we have the production flood the gap will be narrower.

Get narrower and narrower.

DEFTERIOS: three senior OPEC sources said that Saudi Arabia, Iraq and those with record output offer to freeze or even cut production if they

could cap the output of Iran. At the end of the day this boils down to three producers getting exceptions. Iran, Nigeria, and Libya, either due

to sanctions or attacks against their facilities.

AL-FALIH: There are minimum requirements that Saudi Arabia has. It is that everybody participates. Three countries that have special conditions,

namely Libya, Nigeria, and Iran that have been constrained for their own respective reasons. Will be permitted, according to the terms of

reference, to produce at maximum levels that makes sense, and generally they would be the levels that they have achieved recently.

DEFTERIOS: Finding the right formula proved too difficult here in Algeria. So the next goal is to try to reach a consensus at the OPEC meeting,

November 30th in Vienna.

AL-FALIH: I think it is, indeed possible. The important thing is that it applies to everyone. That it is fair and equitable and then is implemented

and is monitored.

DEFTERIOS: There was one area of consensus, that the price of $45 or below does not work for all producers and they would like to see a ban of $55 to

$65 a barrel. The challenge is how to get there. John Defterios, CNNMoney, Algiers.


NEWTON: Now presidential debates are often remembered in soundbites, we'll put round one between Clinton and Trump into context with presidential

historian, Douglas Brinkley.


[16:31:08] NEWTON: Hello, I'm Paula Newton, there is more QUEST MEANS BUSINESS in just a moment. When an undercover sting operation claims the

manager of English football team. And every debate has a moment will remember for years afterwards. A historian gives us his pick from the

Trump-Clinton show down. But first, these are the headlines this hour.

A new drone video shows the scale of the devastation in Eastern Aleppo, Syria. The truce fell apart last week and Syrian government forces along

with their allies launch their biggest ground assault yet on rebel held areas. Now British Foreign Secretary, Boris Johnson addressed the conflict

during his first official visit to Turkey.


BORIS JOHNSON, BRITISH FOREIGN SECRETARY: We obviously have a very similar position on Syria. Where I think it is the view of my government, very

strongly the view of most people I think now in the world, that the overwhelming responsibility for what is happening, the carnage that is

being suffered by the people of Aleppo, lies with the Assad regime and their supporters, their puppeteers in Russia and indeed Iraq. And I think

the most importantly now is that there should be a cease fire, an end to the bombing, and I know that is something that Turkey also strongly



NEWTON: An Islamic militant will spend nine years in prison for destroying ancient shrines in the city of Timbuktu in Mali. The international

criminal Court handed down the sentence Tuesday at The Hague. Ahmad al- Mahdi had pleaded guilty to directing this destruction of historic sites in 2012. Is the first time cultural destruction has been tried as a war


A powerful typhoon has slammed into Taiwan killing at least four people. That's according to Taiwan's central emergency operation center. Typhoon

Megi is the third major storm to lash the island in just two weeks. It hit in the Northeast cutting power to almost 1 million homes


JOHN KENNEDY, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: The question before us is, which point of view and which party do we want to lead the United States.

UNIDENTIFIED MODERATOR: Mr. Nixon, do you want to comment on that statement?

RICHARD NIXON: I have no comment.

RONALD REAGAN: Here you go again. I am not going to exploit for political purposes my opponent's youth and inexperience.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Senator, your no Jack Kennedy.

GEORGE W. BUSH: But can he get things done? And I believe I can.


NEWTON: Just amazing to look back on all of that. Since the first televised presidential debate in 1960, those moments are the ones that many

people remember. Under the hot lights, the debate lecterns, style can matter over substance. A 90-minute performance can be remembered for a

sound bite of just a few seconds. The question tonight is how the debate between Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton be remembered in our collective

conscience as distracted as it is all the time. Joining me now is Douglas Brinkley. He's CNN's presidential historian. I mean, this debate, and I'm

sure you've watched it, and you're so great at being able to take a step back for all of us. What do you think it'll be remembered for, or how it

will be remembered?

DOUGLAS BRINKLEY, CNN PRESIDENTIAL HISTORIAN: Well, it's going to be remembered that Donald Trump had momentum coming in but blew it. It's a

clear victory I think for Hillary Clinton, and it gave her campaign some new juice. After all, just a little bit ago, a couple of weeks ago, she

had pneumonia. She had obfuscated about when it first happened.

[16:35:00] I know there was this health scare. She went off the campaign trail. They look like Trump was starting to really surge. And now things

have been grounded and Hillary Clinton has got the momentum.

But the visual will not be a zinger, which surprised me. I thought Trump would've had the zinger line or Hillary Clinton. It's really I think

Trump's body language. It was a split screen, the icon of this debate is the big split screen. And he was always twitching, and kind of rolling his

eyes, and taking a sip of water, seeming uncomfortable in some ways, and then interrupted her I believe it's like 36 times when she was trying to


She seemed more poised and cool. It's a good moment for Hillary Clinton. However, I caution that Mitt Romney seemed to have won the first debate,

and of course we know what happened to him. Barack Obama trounced him in later debates and won reelection.

NEWTON: Yes, apparently Donald Trump has already done post game analysis of his own, and we may see a very different Donald Trump. But I want to

draw your attention to something that many people noticed, and that was a very uncomfortable encounter when Lester Holt, the moderator, talked to

Donald Trump about his history with birtherism. Take a look.


HOLT: We're talking about racial healing in this segment. What do you say to Americans, people of color who...?


TRUMP: Well, it was very -- I say nothing. I say nothing, because I was able to get him to produce it. He should have produced it a long time

before. I say nothing.

But let me just tell you. When you talk about healing, I think that I've developed very, very good relationships over the last little while with the

African-American community. I think you can see that.


NEWTON: I say nothing, you know, he continually said that. In terms of the context with race relations in this country and obviously this is a

debate that continues to go on in many cities here. How do you think that exchange will be viewed?

BRINKLEY: Not well, Donald Trump has not been able to get this so-called birther issue behind him. It's really the worst of all, is the original

sin of Donald Trump is to have accused President Obama of not being a real American. Of being some other thing from somewhere else, questioning his

Hawaiian birth. It's very hard to get African-American voters to get beyond that. Trump has not successfully done it and he hasn't found a way

to deal with it. He has said I'm wrong. The president was born in the United States. But it sort of haunts him. Whenever you hear the word

birther, you kind of cringe for a minute and it's an albatross around Donald Trump's neck and he didn't help himself with that answer.

NEWTON: He has two more chances to redeem himself. I'm sure he'll be looking for ways. It'll be interesting again because, would you agree that

the debates are kind of taken as a whole in a campaign, is not just the one debate performance?

BRINKLEY: Well, and it's about a week -- we're playing it week by week in the United States. This is a great week for Hillary Clinton. She's going

to get momentum out of this. However, Donald Trump did pretty well last night in the first part. When he's on economic issues about rejection of

NAFTA or how were losing jobs in Ohio and Pennsylvania. He gets on a role with that. He's kinetic. You can feel American voters wanting more.

Where he gets tripped up is any time issues of gender come up. Anything about women he talks in a kind of old-style misogynistic way. He's got a

lot of bad soundbites and Hillary Clinton kind of has a gender high stool if you want. Kind of purine over at him and she use that effectively last

night he's got to find new women voters if he wants to be president.

Douglas Brinkley as always, thank you so much as we await the other two debates. Appreciate it.

16:39:03] NEWTON: In case you didn't guess already, Brian Stelter is here. He predicted it. This was the most watched ever, right -- to date?


NEWTON: 80 million, some people were saying 100 million, but obviously what comes into that is the fact that so many people streamed it, right?

STELTER: That's right. I was predicting 85 million on TV, and I was almost right it was 81.4 million. Add three million on PBS gets you to

84.5. And then what really is different now versus 4 years ago is the rise of streaming. So we've got 84, 85 million viewers watching on television

and then many millions more watching on YouTube, Facebook Live and a number of other websites including CNN's website and dozens of other news outlets.

So between streaming and television, this is the most watched debate in history. All the way back to the John F Kennedy debate in 1960.

NEWTON: In terms of context, Brian, people always complain that you and me and all the other pundits and journalists, we get in the way, we just --

they just want to see the candidates go mano y mano. Did this debate deliver?

[16:40:04] STELTER: This debate did because Lester, the moderator, was very hands off early on, and to the point where some people started

complain and wondered if he went to the bathroom. But that is actually what I wanted and what a lot of viewers wanted. People waited for months

to see them share a stage.

And is what we were able to see. Later in the debate, Holt had to get more involved. Number one because the clock was running out, and number two,

because Trump was saying some things that were so false, Holt had to correct him on.

So I thought it was a good balance by the moderator. A good blueprint for the moderators later this fall.

NEWTON: You have so much experience with this already in your young life, what were your impressions? I mean really when you came out of the 90

minutes, what did you think?

STELTER: Number one, I wanted it to be longer. I was hoping for more. And that is why I am grateful we have two more debates.

NEWTON: Binge watching of debates, oh my gosh, I hope we're ready for that, Brian.

STELTER: This was spellbinding in a way that other debates weren't. the Obama Romney was great. Obama McCain it was fine. But this was a reality

TV star not quite in his prime, up against a woman who had been prepping for this for months, who clearly wanted to seize this opportunity. What

we're seeing is the reality about how important practice is.

Looking at the ratings now, they are just coming in from Neilson. It is important to notice how many relatively young viewers were watching. I'm

interested in the demos here. The 25 to 54-year old demo. For CNN, Fox News and other channels way up from 2012. It's not just older viewers,

it's also younger people tuning in. The 18-34 demo as well.

Makes me wonder if there is evidence of younger voters becoming more interested in this election. Some of them scared of Donald Trump, others

of them not wanting to see Clinton elected. It is going to be interesting to see if higher ratings can translate to higher voter turnout.

NEWTON: Was it transformative? We talk about watershed moments. On TV or in style, anything like that?

STELTER: I don't it can be transformative. I don't think anything about the election season can be transformative. People are so cemented, our

feet dug into the floor, and we can't move, we are so stuck in our partisan position. There is only a small number of people that will actually be

undecided by the end of this. And then it all comes down to whose side turns out to vote.

We should keep in mind as we cover these debates people are already voting in some states across the U.S. and there is more early voting, on and on

and on. In some ways the election has already begun.

NEWTON: Incredible that you're still awake, someone get this man a pillow.

STELTER: I'm going to re-watch the whole thing.

NEWTON: Seriously, I'm not even going to comment on that. Microsoft is adding a little bulk to its cloud. They formed a partnership with Adobe.

We'll hear from the CEOs of those two companies after the break.


[16:45:00] UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Excitement is building in the northern Chinese city of Harbin. It's the sounds of a cultural come back fill its

new opera house. Ma Yansong, founder of the Beijing based MAD architects has been shaping the future of cities all over the world with his

curvaceous creations and hopes his latest masterpiece will make a lasting mark on this city.

MA YANSUNG, FOUNDER AND PRINCIPAL, MAD ARCHITECTS: When we talk about opera, or landmark beauty in some city, they always become so grand, so

powerful. I think my talent was to make this building very approachable. Not only the shape of the building, but also the space around it.

As one of China's second tier cities, Harbin found its footing in the late 1800s as a Russian railroad destination. Then in 1908 with the

establishment of the first symphony orchestra in China, answered it's calling as a cultural capital.

SONG XIBIN, MAYOR, HARBIN: Culture is a city's soft power and inherent character. Harbin pays more attention on its cultural development.

Culture is also a core factor of a city's future development.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Ma's plan to help the city's future play to its natural strengths.

YANSUNG: I think at the very beginning, I want to make sure I create architecture that belongs to the future. I think that a city like Harbin

they had this architecture tradition which is very western, very Russian. That when you look at their modern architecture, it seems lost. They don't

know where the dialogue starts. So I think nature is very unique here. It should be the key for their future architecture.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Low lying wetlands, a winding river and ice cold winters shape the design. Each curve eases into the surrounding landscape.

In his sculpted so that people can even climb the building like a mountain.

YANSUNG: Before we built this building, there were a lot of people come to the site fishing, cycling in the wild landscape. So I was thinking after

we build the building this place should be still very welcoming. Let people approach the building

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: And Harbin is imagining is a future where this building will help the city stand out around the world.

XIBIN: Our citizens are proud they possess this kind of world standard opera house when they come inside. They love the city more and are more

confident about our development in the future.


NEWTON: A battle raging in the skies and a cloud to be exact. Microsoft has pulled of a coup that some consider a coup. It has stolen away Adobe.

The two companies are joining forces on cloud based products. Now they provide competition to Amazon, but the sky is getting crowded. Tech giant

Oracle has its own cloud, and the CEOs of Microsoft and Adobe spoke exclusively with Maggie Lake to explain the significance of their newly

forged alliance.


SATYA NADELLA. CEO, MICROSOFT: It is pretty exciting day for us. Adobe and Microsoft have partnered together for many years, but today when you

look at what customers are talking about is digital transformation. In other words, every business out there is really changing the very core of

how they engage their customers.

So Adobe has built some of the leading market services that are part of this digital transformation. And they're looking for that next generation

cloud infrastructure that has intelligence trust built into it. So Microsoft Azure and Adobe's SAS Services are going to be fairly

transformative as customers are themselves using digital technology to transform themselves. So that's really the milestone today.

MAGGIE LAKE, CNN MONEY ANCHOR: And it's a big vote of confidence. Why switch? What can Microsoft do for you that Amazon was not? Let's talk

about the elephant in the room. You're switching from amazon --

SHATANU NARAYEN, CEO, ADOBE: The key things for us were global scale and how do but think about trust and compliance, and thinking about how we can

integrate our sales and markets with Microsoft sales with an underlying infrastructure that enables to provide not just data collection, but

machine intelligence.

I think what Microsoft has pioneered in that enables us to deliver all of our cloud offerings, which are the leading offerings in their categories

with this machine intelligence we think customers will benefit from it.

[16:50:07] LAKE: There was a time when we thought Microsoft would have bought Adobe, it was acquisition, it seems to be strategic partnership.

Why is that the path forward for Microsoft?

NADELLA: It is about being able to accelerate each other's businesses. In their case

the marketing cloud, their document cloud, creative cloud with our intelligent cloud in Azure. So that is what is strategic to me.

Ultimately it is about the customers being able to get benefits from our innovation. And we find that what we are both doing today bringing them

together as part of the strategic partnerships is going to accelerate both sides.

LAKE: Where are we on the arc of this digital transformation of everything, all digital, all mobile, where are we in that?

NARAYEN: I think in terms of where we are on the arc, I would say we're still early. The amount of data that is going to be collected, and how you

use machine intelligence to deliver a more personalized experience, I think we're starting to see some phenomenal examples of that. But it is really


NADELLA: Ultimately, the new technology of artificial intelligence or machine intelligence is still about really empowering the human in this,

the consumer, the user in it. For example, Cortana is a personal digital assistant that knows you and your context. Family and work, helps you stay

on top of things that need your attention. So that is where artificial intelligence can help, but we're also a developer and enterprise company.

So we're taking the same technologies that make Cortana intelligent and making it available to other developers. In this case for example, Adobe

has that capability in Azure to take advantage of it, to make all of Adobe's products more intelligent.


NEWTON: Our thanks to Maggie Lake there with that exclusive.

Now Sam Allardyce only managed one game as England's football team, at the head of that football team. He is out, already. But first, here is a

highlight from "make, create, innovate."


NEWTON: The manager of the England football team has stepped down after an undercover sting by "The Telegraph" newspaper. Now it recorded Sam

Allardyce allegedly saying he knew how to circumvent the football association's rules on player ownership. In "The Telegraph" video, he

criticizes his predecessor, Roy Hodgson and his relationship with the players saying he'd sent them all to sleep.

It also reports that he said the former assistant manager, Gary Neville, should sit down and shut up, and it is alleged that Allardyce also

criticized the FAA saying they stupidly spent more than a billion dollars on that new stadium at Wembley. CNN world sports Don Riddell joins me now,

I mean for all of those long suffering English footy fans, put this into context for us, Don.

[16:55:00] DON RIDDELL, CNN ANCHOR: This is just remarkable in so many ways. Paula. The England manager's position is something of poisoned

chalice really, it is an impossible job. It is seen in England as the second most important job in the country, behind that only to the prime

minister of the country.

Sam Allardyce has found himself in a position where he put his employer in a very, very difficult position, and they clearly felt as though they had

no choice but to let him go after just 67 days. One game in charge, which really is quite remarkable.

You ran through his list of his indiscretions which was revealed by "The Daily Telegraph" in their sting operation against him. But it is the third

party ownership thing which really forced their hand. This is something that is very controversial in football.

Michel Platini once described it as slavery in the modern day game. And the football association outlawed it eight years ago. FIFA abandoned it

last year, and here you have the man in the most important position in the England football team basically saying, you know, don't worry about it.

We can find our way around it. That is incredibly damaging for the reputation of the football association and that is why he is gone after

just one game.

NEWTON: Incredible. And thanks so much for putting it in context for us. We will hear about this in the coming week I think, and I think I speak for

many footy fans when they found out we cannot repeat what the fans said about the whole incident.

Tom Riddell, thank you. And that is QUEST MEANS BUSINESS. I'm Paula Newton and the news continues right here on CNN.