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Wat Tyler

Hi Oberon

This is (yet another) book in my huge pile of unread must-reads. When I dipped into it I concluded it was really "a collection of individual stories", and didn't press on.

Does he suggest any solutions?


Call IDS.

Michael McGowan

I'm not sure that it does strike at the heart of individual libertarian thinking. What it shows is the pernicious effects of the me-me-me culture of rights (especially welfare rights) without responsibilities championed by the left since the sixties, and on the whole actively condoned by the Tory Party. There is no group of people more reviled by the New Left than the old white working class, whose values and sense of self-respect stood in marked contrast to the feral mayhem which Dalrymple describes.


I haven't read it for a long time but I do recall some examples of guilty persons refusing to take responsibility for their actions. Whether this pervades the book or not I don't know.

Nevertheless I found it to be a good read and an illustrative examples of what happens in a society where vast numbers of people lose all sense of right and wrong.

Oberon HoustonOberon Houston

Wat, he doesn't really suggest any solutions, other than by indirect inference that we (the Tories) are the solution, or to be more specifically our general outlook is the solution, i.e. celebrating our past, upholding social values, individual responsability and meritocratic leanings, as opposed to individual liberalisation, egaltarian dogma and complete disenfranchisment from British institutions and a tendency to want to destroy them (attacking oxbridge, royal family, house of lords etc. etc.)

The suggestion is that the agenda of the post-war Britain was allowed to be led by the left and their theories, and infact it gained popular support. The fact that we lost the arguement then does not mean that we were wrong, just that they led the way. I suppose that this will continue so long as the Left are more willing to enter careers of influence such as teaching and lecturing etc.. We need to encourage more of our members to enter these professions otherwise we will always struggle to get our message across.

There is little point in hand wringing over this, what we do and how effectively we mobilise to change things going forward is really the key, hence the importance of Project Cameron - if he fails then the outlook is bleak.

Oberon HoustonOberon Houston

Michael, I do think Individual Libertarianism is the key to understanding the predicament of these people, however you are correct to mention there is a culture growing where people think of welfare as a given right without any consideration of whether there is a moral contract to try and help ones self move towards a more self supporting status. To keep the review succinct I didn't cover this aspect, however it is prevalent in the text.

Michael McGowan

Thanks, Oberon. I can see that you had a lot to cover and not a lot of space in which to cover it!

Picking up one of your other points, one of the oddities of history is that the very fact that the UK won (or rather survived) WWII gave the left its big break. They were able to point to a seemingly "successful" command economy (introduced as a wartime necessity) and insist on it being projected into the post-war area on grounds of "efficiency" and "social justice". The Tories simply gave up the battle of ideas as to whether this was the right approach until the 1980's. The same happened when the left shifted tack after the sixties by emphasising control of thought, speech, sexual behaviour and the economy through laws, the courts and cultural indoctrination, rather than through state ownership. Indeed the Tories have still to come to terms with the fact that political correctness should be resisted precisely because it is just another authoritarian straitjacket

Oberon HoustonOberon Houston

I was hoping to generate just such a conversation by reviewing this book, and was duly rewarded - thanks for all your comments.

I suppose its all part of moving the process forward, organising our thoughts and articulating them so that a wider audience can appreciate our view. The tricky bit is formaulating policy that addresses this, but doesn't shift so far as to worry people. I advocate progressive policy making anyway, its much easier to take people with you that way - and ensure it is having the intended effect -


Perhaps we should recall Dr Dalrymple is a Psychologist. Psychiatrists however know that many of the inmates of penitentiaries suffer from Personality Disorders ie. incurable mental illnesses such as Anti-Social Personality Disorder (ASPD) or BPD - Borderline Personality Disorder which combines things like schizophrenia and depression.

There are lots of sites on the Web - just enter "BPD" into Google.

These people do not feel remorse, do not acknowledge guilt, and do not see others as "persons" with identities but purely in terms of how they serve them. They are totally self-centred.

Many of these people will never operate properly in society and will reflex to violence, will lie, will deceive, and are amoral.

The question is firstly to identify which are incorrigible and which redeemable; and then to decide what to do with them.

marc silver

Folks, don't be put off by the first impression that "Life At The Bottom" is merely a collection of stories. Actually, its a collection of expert essays with numerous episodes written over many years. Dr. Dalrymple has that priceless gestalt of scientific insight and extensive experience that yields genuine enlightenment for us laymen. To sum up his conclusion, an underclass person says, "I'm righteous and deserve universal respect because I understand WHY I'm so hateful and murderous. And if you don't appreciate that, maybe I'd better kill you, too!" This is what scientism has produced: knowledge used to justify the most fatal human thinking and behaving. Throw it out. Let's go back to values. People's behavior proves what they freely decide is important. The bottom line is this: Do I, or do I not, hold human life and human freedom to be sacred?

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