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September 15th: SM139 - He's Born! The Alolan League Winner!!

Discussion in 'Animé Spoilers' started by Dephender, Sep 5, 2019.

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  1. DatsRight

    DatsRight Well-Known Member

    This league has been meticulously intricate about giving each Pokemon a fair contribution per team and not having a 'dead weight'. All of Kiawe, Sophocles and Lana's teams scored wins, and even for the others all their Pokemon were used a round per piece. All of Ash's other Pokemon helped advance Ash a round in a significant level. Even Shaymin, who is technically wild, was allowed to take part and win a round for Mallow (if offscreen). About the only established Pokemon among the qualifying 16 that didn't get used at all were Ilima's Smeargle, Acerola's Mimi-tan and Team Rocket's Meowth, none of which have much established role in battle.

    The two that are most at risk of being screwed over right now are Zoroark and Lycanroc since they have not been used up until the final. I suspect Zoroark might KO Pikachu (but with the latter getting in good damage like Melmetal) thus giving Zoroark one victory, but then that would leave it undetermined for Lycanroc, since him KOing Zoroark could be considered his contribution before losing to Midnight Lycanroc. They have been careful to give Midnight the lion's share of KOs for Gladion however so it losing in the finals would be less of a blow.

    Midnight suffering its first ever KO against Turtonator also leaves me suspicious. I don't mind it losing to Kiawe, but it also means it's 'mortal' now, and it could win the finals for Gladion and not suffer the same OP infamy Alain's Charizard suffered, just someone other than Ash broke its winning streak beforehand instead.
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2019 at 12:17 AM
    TheWanderingMist likes this.
  2. RedR

    RedR Well-Known Member

    Mr. Mime is filming Ash's match, so that's a good sign he'll win, right?
  3. Shadao

    Shadao Champion GETTO DA ZE!

    Ha! You know that will never pan out the way you wanted to be. Any Pokémon that defeats Ash's last Pokémon in the League will suffer infamy regardless, even if they are "defeatable." Have we forgotten that Alain's Charizard did lose to Mega Blastoise way back? One lose doesn't render OP infamy null and void. To do that is to have Ash personally defeat it with his Pokémon. The only thing a loss proves is that it's not OP enough for Ash to not beat.

    I have my doubts on that. People said the same thing about Alain by saying that he at least has a backstory and character arc that was more than just League stuff, unlike previous League participants like Cameron, Tobias, Tyson, Harrison, and Ritchie. Never underestimate the fandom.
  4. DatsRight

    DatsRight Well-Known Member

    Alain was intentionally developed so the Kalos 'dream smasher' would be a proper character that the audience wouldn't hate......which didn't fully work out.

    I'm split down the middle with Alola's approach right now, since while a lot of the premise does seem to make way for Ash winning, Gladion could possibly be another enhancement of this approach to make a likeable dream smasher. Though helped by SM not having the same excess hype as XY's league, Gladion could probably get away with winning, especially since he's already a popular character from the games.
  5. Power Up

    Power Up ...

    The problem here is the Pokemon anime is treating it like a league comparable to leagues of the past. I saw a tweet or some sort of quote from marketing or something where it said, " Will Ash win his first league? " or something along those lines. Now personally, I don't consider it to be a real league comparable at all, but it's clear that's how the writers and the show is trying to present the Alola league as. It's not something akin to BF for example where it's pretty much explicitly stated that this really isn't a league in the traditional sense.

    I would be more sympathetic to this PoV if this was how the Alola league was contextualized as. But it isn't at least to my knowledge. If there's something in the show that I'm not remembering, please correct me

    For everything else, I agree, but it's disappointing that the Alola " league " is given the possibility for this particular interesting plot point. The same thing could have easily occurred in Kalos for example

    It would look bad for sure, but I wish this league was treated more like a small scale league in the show itself or maybe just Alola's biggest tournament

    He has the most reason to win for sure, but the value of what he's winning is comparably lower.

    Ash had reason for winning the Kalos League as well, it was just 3 years ago that we were here in the same position and we were all reasoning that it made perfect narrative sense for Ash to win back then as well, the difference here is what's at stake and the value of what is going to happen.

    Side tangent here, but Alain had an arc and he was an important character with depth and backstory. He also had a completely valid reason for participating and he wasn't overpowered for the sake of being overpowered. Alain went through plenty of struggles and acted in a way that represented what he went through, i.e fighting for Marin because of Chespin, protecting Prof Sycamore, etc

    What a possible Alola win means for the future is one that depends heavily on Galar as well and what kind of show it's going to turn out to be. With how up in the air Galar is and the changes being made, I worry something might happen that won't give the Ash the opportunity to win a league back on the level of leagues before Alola. That and like I said, there's going to be this sense of apathy that yeah, already exists, but it's going to be for different reasons. Now, it could be possible that people won't care about about the value and the significance of Ash winning a league because hey, he won one right? Finally, after 20 years Ash wins! The disappointment we've underwent imo could very well inflate the importance of this win and not give context to the reality of the win.

    And as I've pointed out, winning a league is a huge deal. Huge. It should be game-changing. And it hasn't been treated that way like I said in the show itself.The value isn't there and for me, it feels like the the Alola league is trying to play on that feeling of disappointment when Ash has lost previous leagues to create artificial value that just isn't there in the show and if Ash does end up winning, I'll have a bitter taste in my mouth. This is all how I feel of course

    But hey, as Zard pointed out, it could prove for an interesting arc where in Galar, Ash's win in Alola could be called into question and the whole sponsorship angle would be cool to see. But the writers never go for interesting arcs like that for the most part
  6. Shadao

    Shadao Champion GETTO DA ZE!

    If it never worked for Alain, it won't work for Gladion.

    Let's face it, the only acceptable "dream smasher" by this point is a nonexistent one. Let Ash take the victory for once.
  7. Litleonid

    Litleonid Well-Known Member

    Ash winning would actually be a good thing from a writers stand point. Going into the Sword and Shield series, we know that people competing in the Galar Gym Challenge have to receive an endorsement. Ash winning the Alola League would be something that could easily get him an endorsement from Chairman Rose, or even Champion Leon, if either of them were watching.
    Leonhart likes this.
  8. AuraChannelerChris

    AuraChannelerChris "Where's the KISS concert at?"

    Because we all want to see Ash's endorsements getting tossed into the trash the moment he loses there, right.
  9. C00kie_173

    C00kie_173 Member

    Is this confirmed ? Is Zoroark really being saved for the final battle of the league?
  10. AuraChannelerChris

    AuraChannelerChris "Where's the KISS concert at?"

    Um, it's literally being used for the final battle of the league.

    Not the Masked Royal one, of course, since nobody knows.
  11. TheWanderingMist

    TheWanderingMist Daikuro, Keeper Of The Gates Ambitious

    Yes, it was saved for the last battle. It may have technically appeared during the Royal because I don't remember Gladion's Pokemon being hit with any moves then.
    They joined today. Probably don't know a lot about what's going on.
  12. mehmeh1

    mehmeh1 Neutral force of Meh

    Gladion used the Rock memory and Multi attack with Silvally on the Battle Royale, so it wasn't Zoroark
    TheWanderingMist likes this.
  13. C00kie_173

    C00kie_173 Member

    Hmm. What I mean is would zoroark and pikachu be recalled back and used again at the end of the match?
  14. AuraChannelerChris

    AuraChannelerChris "Where's the KISS concert at?"

    Possibly, but this anime has never been big on recalling Pokemon with advantages/disadvantages.

    Unless of course you're allowed to change types when you own a Silvally!
  15. Blue Saturday

    Blue Saturday too fly

    Double withdrawal? But yeah I could maybe see them ending it in a weird way like maybe Lugarugan defeating the its rival and illusion fox. It’s a question of (if Satoshi wins) how?

    Midnight tanked Radial Edge Storm there’s no point in using it again. Grass-Z and Electric-Z have been used and Fire-Z is for Kukui...maybe the key to victory (if they want it to happen) is the Steel-Z since it hasn’t done anything impressive. Maybe Pikachu beats Zoroark with it or Lugarugan learns Iron Head / Iron Tail orrrrr Thrash then we get to see Ultra Dash Attack with the Normal-Z finishing the fight. Would be fitting for Satoshi to win the league with the first crystal he obtained.
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2019 at 4:16 AM
  16. Almighty Zard

    Almighty Zard He has returned.

    I hope not, I want Zoroark to go down, even if Pikachu has to draw with it to do it.

    Also, just because there is a chance that Pikachu might lose to Zoroark and get ko'ed by Dusk Lycanroc (since Pikachu is giving Zoroark a run for it's money in the preview), doesn't mean that DL is screwed when Gladion's comes out, we'd had pokemon take down multiple opponents in the past, but it seems to me that what happened in Alain's battle is lingering in the minds of many.

    I seem to recall Squirtle, Bulbasaur and Charizard each taking down multiple opponents in a row during the jouto league.

    but then again the past shouldn't dictate the future.
    Shadao likes this.
  17. mehmeh1

    mehmeh1 Neutral force of Meh

    Maybe, but lately whenever Ash's last mon beats his opponent's penultimate one, Ash ends up losing
    KenzeyEevee likes this.
  18. Yeah how is the win lose ratio of SM Ash actually?
  19. AuraChannelerChris

    AuraChannelerChris "Where's the KISS concert at?"

    Grand Trial stuff, he's practically got a full winning streak there.

    Only Gladion and Masked Royal have screwed him good all the times they fought. Hau beat him once but then Ash beat him all the times after that.

    And...I guess that's it. This series hasn't been big on battles for Ash. Ha ha.
    RLC and KenzeyEevee like this.
  20. Almighty Zard

    Almighty Zard He has returned.

    let me ask this, when was the last time this actually happened?

    In Ash's case.
    KenzeyEevee likes this.
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