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2/5 - QJ vs check call lead river

2/5 NL $500 cap 9-handed

We have about 530 and V has us covered with 2.5k.

Folds to V in LP to our right, he raises to 20. We call with QdJc. BB calls

Flop (60): Qc Jd 2d

BB checks. V bets 30. We raise to 70. BB folds and V calls.

Turn (200): Kd

V checks. We bet 160. V calls.

River (520): 8s

V goes all in for our eff stack of about 280.

We think V is on the tighter/cagey side given the following hands. V raised in LP with AsJh and we called with 8c9c. V checked a 4-way flop of Ad 9c 2c and we checked behind. Turn was 8s and we called Vs bet and river went check check on a 10s. Also V folded QQ on a board of 8c 8s 2d Jd when a player check called flop and lead turn. V staked a guy with 97 vs 75 on a board of 977, KK > QQ ect. so V isn't really going out of his way to make plays, he's just smashing and getting paid off. This is all after about 4-5 hours playing together.

V likely views us as same cagey/tight style and about even for the session.

So is it a mistake to bet this turn and should we call this river?


  • MastaC707MastaC707 Posts: 95Subscriber
    Why are you raising the flop? What are you trying to get to call? Why are you raising so small?

    Why are you betting that turn? It's about the worst card for us.

    As played you probably gotta fold. If you checked back the turn you can call pretty easily.


  • Rocketman74Rocketman74 Posts: 451Subscriber
    I like the raise OTF as you get value from overpairs and hands you out flopped like AQ, KQ, AJ etc. You also get value from a lot of draws that your opponent can have.

    Now the turn changes things as a bunch of hands you were ahead of you are now trailing so checking behind might be prudent.

    as played, the river appears to be a clear fold

    *NOTE* you could fold pre but it's ok (you have position and one of Bart's favorite hands.) Personally I think folding would be a little nitty but others might disagree.
  • nickdevo1@yahoo.com[email protected] Posts: 163Subscriber
    calling pre in position with Q-J os is OK, but you can also consider raising some of the time if you are not actually the button. stack sizes are a little small so maybe i call.
    you smashed the flop, so your raise size giving the guy 4 to 1 to call and either beat you or bluff you is way too small. i'd make it about $125 to $150 planning to get in right here. if he calls the pot is now around $350 with one bet size behind.
    on the turn, i would check it back. diamonds are not good for you and you may need to fill up.
    on the river, i would evaluate the bet size but probably it's a fold against a solid player and a call against a aggro shark or a bad player.
  • ASLheadwalkASLheadwalk Posts: 2Subscriber
    Yea, should have gone bigger on flop raise. I like 90-110 in retrospect. I think betting the turn is good. Smaller, 125, and fold to a shove.
  • stayinschoolstayinschool Posts: 2,969Subscriber
    I may just fold preflop.
    Thanked by 1Letmewin1
  • BlackBoxEquityBlackBoxEquity Posts: 165Subscriber
    I like the flop raise (and sizing); not only do you ensure getting called by AQ, AJ, diamonds, but every once in a while, it will properly induce them to spaz out and 3bet with those hands.

    Turn sizing is too big. Kd hits his flop calling range hard and if he decides to check-raise, you are in a shitty spot. That being said, I would still want to get value from AK, AQ, and the Ad. I would bet-fold smaller 115ish.

    River is a fold. Don't see a tight player raising pre, calling a raise on the flop, calling a bet on the turn when a flush and straight comes in, and then firing a big bet on the river (that you beat). Your hand looks strong (especially when you bet the turn as big as you did).
  • JacklambJacklamb Posts: 561Subscriber
    edited January 2017
    Vs better/more aggressive opponents I can see flatting the flop. But I like raising. Make it more like $110. Turn can go bet medium size like $110 again or check because that's about the worst card to see. And then fold to his river bet.
    After looking at the previous hands he played this is an easy snap-fold. This guy seems like scared money. Also on your 89 hand, why are you checking behind on the river? Your best bet is to be betting for value until he gives you reason to think you shouldn't.
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