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Nah. Don't fancy a referendum.

...of course I want a referendum, what sort of question is that?!

Is there a facebook/bebo group on this?

Do you want a referendum for its own sake or an opportunity to reject the treaty. The worst possible outcome would be a referendum with a recommendation to vote yes. It happened before after all.

DC said the other day he supported continuing membership of the EU. This remains the position of the political elites in all three parties. Europe is determined to achieve "ever closer union" at any cost. This is illustrated by the French president's attitude to the result in France. Change a few labels and re-package the same old product(not an unfamilar political response to adversity).

A Europe of the Nations is not on offer to Britain. The choice is now "fully in or fully out". I am not sure a referendum campaign will achieve the opportunity to make this choice.Another fudge and continuing semi-detached membership will only make things worse.

On balance, yes, but we're all proceeding on the assumption that the electorate will vote "no" in a resounding manner.

Don't forget the lies, scare-stories and out-spending of the "yes" camp in 1975.

There will in addition be a new factor this time around if our wish is granted, namely the East European Immigrants. As EU citizens, they too will have a vote in any UK referendum. Wonder which way they'll jump.

Does a bear shit in the woods?

Of course I want a bloody referendum.

A Referendum - yes BUT that will depend on the question.

What would you like the answer to be??

Do you want a referendum? Yes.
Will the opredicted British no vote on this treaty be end of the story? No. But perhaps it will be the beginning.

I posted the following yesterday but it seems more appropriate today:

Roger Helmer at 12.39 is absolutely correct:

"Gordon Brown should call an election. But first he should call a referendum".

The much maligned Michael Ancram summed it up when saying:

"Sovereignty belongs to the British people, and can be surrendered only with the express consent of the British people. What was in effect a European Constitution agreed by Tony Blair in June, undeniably diminishes our national sovereignty, and it is outrageous for Gordon Brown to argue that a referendum is unnecessary".

Maybe it would be better if we accepted that the onus of proof is now upon us to show exactly how our sovereignty will be diminished if this treaty is ratified, rather than invite the government to show that it will not.

One simple question: does the draft treaty create a country called "Europe"?

Even those who support the EU treaty ought to back a referendum because this is aquestion of trust. An elected government must be made to keep its manifesto promises. Labour promised the country a refrendum on this treaty. They must not be allowed to get away with lying to the British people.

Absolutely yes.
My sovereignty must not continue to be dripped away without permission.

How nice. Is this site back Rally for a Referendum that has been toiling away on considerably less money than Open Europe has to start a rolling campaign on October 27 with a rally in QEII? I hope so. A cross-party organization, chaired by Bob Spink MP, it has been, as I say, working very hard, indeed. A bit of backing would be quite useful.

Yes. Thanks. And about and English parliament while we are at it.

Meanwhile, our local returning officer is booking space in October -is this normal practice?

Oh yes please Sir, pretty please.

Cannot understand the mentality of Gordo, all in the EU are saying "The Treaty" basically unchanged from the old Constitution, so why the ostrich act?

We need a Referendum campaign but I have been disappointed by Open Europe. It is too close too the EU Commission as Eurocrats address its conferences regularly.

Sadly, Ruth Lea's Global Vision has been a big disappointment and has not made the impact that it promised.

The Eurosceptic and Eurorealist organisations need to unite behind a single campaign with one large petition. There are too many petitions at the moment.

The Freedom Association, chaired by Roger Helmer MEP, is the best campaigner on the EU. It should take the lead as it has established the National Committee for a Referendum. The NCR is chaired by Daniel Kawczynski, the Conservative MP for Shrewsbury and Atcham. It includes 28 MPs and Peers from all parties.

Helen, The Freedom Association is one of several political parties and organisations that is backing the Rally for a Referendum on 28th October. The Conservative Party and Open Europe are not. Why not? We should be given an explanation.

Moral minority, I know that Freedom Association and the others are backing the Rally for a Referendum. Individual MPs and MEPs are as well. In fact, it is no secret that Roger Helmer has agreed to speak as Chairman of the Freedom Association. Why Open Europe and the Conservative Party are striking off in a separate direction is a question you should address them.

The question should be "Do the Conservatives really want a referendum and would they support the right answer if it took place or are they just playing to the Eurosceptic gallery as usual?"

"..or are they just playing to the Eurosceptic gallery as usual?"

They're playing to the Eurosceptic gallery in just the same way as David Cameron did during the leadership contest with his promise that the Conservatives would leave the EPP grouping in Brussels 'within weeks' of his being elected leader.

Of course, two years later, the Tories are still in the EPP group. Therefore, it's just more bluff and bluster without any real intent or conviction behind it - opportunism in the extreme.

How Cameron, how Blu Labour !

This is what the Tories should be talking about, but we're hearing damn all.

Helen, my comments were aimed at Open Europe and the Editor who backing its petition.

So far, the Conservative calls for a referendum have been sporadic and half-hearted. IMO, there is no chance of the rally being backed by the Conservative Party. Bob Spink MP, the rally's chairman, is too Eurosceptic for the Whips' liking. Patrick Mcloughlin, the Chief Whip, was a Eurofanatic when he was Chairman of the Young Conservatives.

The Whips have forbidden any more MPs or PPCs to sign up to TFA's Better Off Out campaign. Roger Helmer is despised by the Tory delegation leaders in the European Parliament. It was Cameron who forced them to reinstate the Whip to Roger. He feared that Helmer planned to defect to UKIP at the Bournemouth conference last year.

When it comes to crunch, the Conservatives would stay in a European Union with the federalist constitution rather than pull out. The real referendum that we need is on EU membership.

I've signed up striaght away. I do agree that we must unite all these groups to form one mass petition. It would have much greater impact.

One thing at a time, Moral minority. First, let us try to stop this treaty.

Derek, as you may have gathered from my exchange with MM, all these groups are united. The ones who have wandered off are Open Europe and their supporters. I have no problems with different organizations doing different things but don't let us pretend that nothing happened until Open Europe came along or that there are no unified efforts out there.

I don't want a referendum. I just want Gordon Brown to reject the Treaty. By demanding a referendum - since he'd be bound to lose - we may just do that.

My guess is that there will be no referendum and no Treaty, because the Netherlands and/or Poland will turn it down first. But it's good for us to marshall our arguments, just in case...

I write in agreement with those wanting a referendum.
As one of those dumb,misguided, lied to voters who voted yes to join the "Common" market as it was called then,I want an opportunity to set things to rights.
All I say to those who say they don,t want any more of our sovreignty taken away, basically all of it was taken away by lying politicians (and yes Traitors) who conned us into voting yes at the last referendum.
Throughout successive decades, treaties signed by all governments Tory and Labour, with no thought of asking the people, our sovreignty has been salami sliced away until it no longer exists.
So people have a choice, either stay in Europe and share sovreignty, or vote to leave and restore our independance that traitorious EU supporting UK politicians of all political persuasion stripped us of in 1974.
That is one big reason why the majority of people in the UK decide not to vote is because no matter who they vote for all the UK parliament does is rubber stamp legislation that started life in Brussels.
How often do we see ministers shrugging their shoulders and saying "nothing to do with me guv" when some silly Euro legislation is passed and yes this happened under Tory and Labour governments.
Finally, my flag of birth is the Union Jack, my anthem is "God Save the Queen" my allegance is to the Royalty and my beliefs are freedom, democracy and liberty under the law.
Anything else, a Euro or Scottish anthem, a Euro or Scottish flag and being part of a large undemocratic Europen state is a complete anathema to me and will be for all of my life and no legislation even enforced at the point of a gun will change my beliefs.
I happily signed the Open Europe petition however all those opposed to this new treaty need to come together and fight, even those of us who want out completely need to join with those who want in but not this treaty, because the likes of the BBC, Europe Treaty supporting politicians etc will use every dirty trick to win a referendum just as they did the last time.
By the way I recommend Peter Oborne,s book serialised in this weeks Daily Mail.

In 1975, Enoch Powell quit the Tories and said "Vote Labour", over the issue of leaving the EU, to the then leader's incandescent rage.

Who will be first (while still a MP - Roger Knapman and Christopher Gill don't count) modern Tory to quit the party over its pro-EU policy?

I doubt anyone will. They've seen how irrelevant Roger and Chris made themselves after they left.


Yes please! Are you listening Gordon Brown, or are you going to break your election pledge?

Gospel of Enoch wrote "Who will be first (while still a MP - Roger Knapman and Christopher Gill don't count) modern Tory to quit the party over its pro-EU policy?"

Following his deselection for vocally opposing Major's European policies, George Gardiner defected to the Referendum Party shortly before the 1997 general election.

As the Referendum Party candidate in his Reigate seat, George lost to the Tory Europhile candidate, Crispin Blunt, at that election.

I want Cameron to promise that an incoming Tory government would give us a referendum if Gordon hasn't done so.If he's convinced that we should have a referendum then that promise should be as easily made as that to leave the EPP.

Of course we want a referendum.

By the way I voted no. probably the only sensible vote I ever cast!!

Make your referendline exercise already now and vote YES to Free Europe Constitution at www.FreeEurope.info!

We must stop this shameless EU powergrab (ie 'reform treaty' same thing as the 'constitEUtion') at all and any cost.


1.throw quislings like Heseltine and Clarke out of the party
2.have a referendum
3.win it (ie 'NO')
4.become the new government
5.arrest, convict and jail all the traitors like Heseltine, Clarke, Blair and Brown

What was treason in '39-'45, is still treason today. Handing over powers to Brussels is treason. Too bad Heath is dead, he'd be a prime candidate for execution because of his treachery.

The EU-philes have betrayed and split our party.


It has been recognised as a hard won victory for Britons to continue using imperial weights and measures over the EU metric system. The Commission readily admits, ‘These imperial measures form part of the traditions that are the very essence of Britishness’. How polite of them.

However, a word of caution should be observed, as it is only a ploy by the EU to control the wider picture. The European Commission desperately wants to allay fears in Britain about the EU Reform Treaty. It is trying cunningly to give the impression that Britain still has control over its opt-out red lines regarding the EU Reform Treaty. Nothing could be further from the truth.

Mr Verheugen, Commissioner for the Single Market, says he was acting to end ‘myths’ that the EU was banning the pint’. How generous, do we need this Eurocrat’s permission? If the EU Reform Treaty is signed, we will give away on many more important issues. Britain will be given away more rights than at any other time in our history.


There is hardly a doubt in my mind that WHATEVER the question, the referendum will actually be on our membership of the EU per se and Brown knows it. As does Clarke, Lord H et al.

P.S. I am organising a local poll on the question: "Do you want a referendum on the EU Constitution? YES/NO" in our parish, under the Local Government Act 1972. Others are being held, mostly in the south-west of England.

First results, from Dorset way, should be out on 20th September (I am in Milton Keynes and don't see why we should be left out!).

The discussions on the Constitution are being held by their self-importances, the European panjandrums, during October, so these parish polls will be coming out at around the same time.

These polls, if correctly organised, are then run by the local district council's elections department, so are proper, official referenda. Whichever way the vote goes, they can not be ignored!

Too many stupid decisions already being made from Brussels that I don't agree with. The Labour party should simply keep its word - if they don't then I will not vote for them in the future

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