Friday question: Pay more for food/drink if tips not expected?


Whenever a discussion of tipping comes up on the blog, someone suggests raising wages for servers and abolishing gratuities. Here’s today’s question:

Would you go to a restaurant or bar that abolished tipping and increased its prices by 15 to 20 percent across the board to pass that difference along to waitstaff? A $20 entrée would rise to $23 or $24, $5 pints would become $6 and $8 glasses of wine would be $9.50.

Please start your answer with a simple yes or no, then amplify if desired. If you’re a restaurant employee who receives tips, would you like to see such a change?

Categories: News, Q&A, Restaurants/chefs
Steve Barnes

93 Responses

  1. B. says:

    No, I would not patronize a restaurant/bar that abolished tipping with a price increase across the board. This completely removes the incentive for the waitstaff to provide the customer service that goes along with a dining experience. And it’s demoralizing for the good, service and customer-oriented waitstaff.

  2. KGB says:


    Tipping directly correlates to the service received. It is an opportunity to reward the staff with whom you interacted. It wouldn’t necessarily trickle down to appropriate compensation even if prices are raised 15-20%.

  3. Woodrow says:


  4. elmer says:

    Yes–absolutely. If for no other reason that to avoid having to tip more than 20% to make up for cheap dining partners!

  5. BB says:

    Yes – I like knowing upfront what I am going to pay for what I am ordering. I CAN do the math in my head to add up what I’ve ordered, add the tax, then the tip, etc. BUT … I would find it enjoyable to know that my bowl of soup and sandwich will be $20 – all in, all done. I am this way with vacations as well – I prefer all-inclusive resorts where tipping is forbidden. I know BEFORE I GO what my total vacation is going to cost. That way I can decide if I can afford it or not before committing to it.

  6. ric orlando says:

    Nice post– I currently have started a rambling FB debate over this just this morning. All started by posting the Applebee’s-Pastor-Waiter firing story..
    check it out

  7. zack says:


    I love being able to reward good service with excellent tips and bad service with not so excellent tips.

    Elmer, if that is your rationale why not just call them out on it? Or stop going out with the offending parties?

  8. Mouse says:

    No. I tip based on the service I receive. If my waitstaff has no incentive to provide good service, why should I be forced to pay 20%? If they do an outstanding job, I’ve been known to tip well above 20%.

  9. Willie Pittman says:

    Yes, I would – depending on the restaurant more than anything else. We already patronize the CIA and Casola Dining Room, which do something similar.

    But I don’t believe the opposite of “yes” is “know”, Steve. I “no” you’ll correct this. :-)

  10. Walt says:

    No. It would require a complete change in the culture of renumeration for service rendered. Then do we increase hotel room rates and eliminate tipping for baggage, doorman etc. as another example?

  11. Erin L. says:

    No, definitely not. I tip generously- above 20%- for good service, and more for great. But on the few occasions I’ve had terrible service, I’ve been very glad I have the option to tip less, or even not at all. It absolutely gives the waiter incentive to provide good service.

  12. jt says:

    No. There is no guarantee that the extra revenue would be passed on to the staff. Whether due to greedy management or a business with cashflow issues, it is too easy for management to keep some or all of that extra revenue. (Which raises an interesting question: am I naive in thinking that the staff always gets all of that tip – particularly when it is on a credit card?)

    I also like to reward good service with a generous tip.

  13. ABSOLUTELY YES. The American “tipping” system is tired and antiquated. What other profession is there where people want to exercise their power over another person? Anybody who says NO to this question has issues with themselves, not with the servers. Why would you be against someone else making a fair, steady, predictable living wage? If someone went above and beyond your expectations you could always show them your appreciation via an additional gratuity.

    I don’t like the service and inefficiency that I get from our state government but I am forced to pay the taxes that they tell me to pay.
    If I don’t like the job the mechanic does on my car, I must still pay the price that they ask. It could go on and on and on.
    If the cable/satellite/telephone provider is late beyond the “8am to 4pm” window they give me, can I show my dissatisfaction with their service by paying less than my monthly bill.

    To debunk the myth that the server would give you less than adequate service speaks more to the management & standards of the restaurant rather than the individual servers themselves.

    Here’s a piece penned in the New York Times a few years ago when per se went to a “Service Included” system.

  14. G © says:


    If I already enjoyed dining at the establishment, I’d definitely continue to go…and maybe even go more than usual, to support the increased pay for the staff.

    If this practice was started at a place I’ve never been, I’d want to hear what friends and colleagues thought of the place before I went. I wouldn’t want to support a wage increase for sub-par servers/service.

  15. LJ says:

    No. I like tipping for good service. I Also like the idea that the greedy government doesn’t get any of the unreported tips. I wish I could get some earnings tax free.

    And BB, I also have been to all-inclusive resorts where tips are “forbidden”. I tipped the bartenders discreetly anyway because they wait on you all day. After that I got special treatment like drinks delivered to our beach chairs without going up to the bar or even asking for them.

  16. AmandaSue says:

    Yes – The management would have to up the salaries to at least min wage, and after that, the good servers will start finding the higher paying restaurants. Places with poor management will have poor service and lose customers and business … the free market economy at work.

  17. RogerK says:

    YES, as long as it is prominently posted where the customer will be aware of it.

    I always leave at least 20% anyway. This way, any additional amount I might leave would be a nice way of letting the server know I truly appreciated the extra effort they gave.

  18. DanCF says:

    No, because I would not believe/trust that the full upcharge was actully going to the wait staff. I think the restaurant owner would pay as low as wage as possible to servers and keep most of the money for him or her self.

  19. Carrie R says:

    No..and the only reason I say this is because I feel like I am hard-wired to tip. I am 35 years old and I can’t NOT leave a tip. I waited tables and bartended for years, and now it would feel wrong to not not tip. I tip at all inclusive resorts. And I also believe it “motivates” the servers to do above and beyond their usual good job. I tipped while in Paris even though all meals were “service compris.” It’s a very interesting debate though….

  20. Karma123 says:

    NOOOOO! Tipping is not just for the customer to decide if the server did a good job or is also a goal for the server to try to do their very best job and go above and beyond to treat customers well. It would make all server mediocre

  21. Willie Pittman says:

    Restaurant Advocate, I agree with you for the most part. However, I have to take issue with the implication of your rhetorical question “What other profession is there where people want to exercise their power over another person?”

    Here are a few suggestions:

    Prison guard
    Sergeant or officer in the armed forces
    Supervisor in just about any business
    Bishop in the Catholic Church (in spades!).

  22. Sal says:

    No…because i would end up tipping either way,along as the service was there!

  23. Dave says:

    No. As a former restaurant worker I made great money. Not because bosses were generous but becaus I worked my a$$ off. My customers were an audience to which I was required to preform. My job was to make their night having them leave with a smile and fond memory’s. Personally I averaged over 25% due to the extra effort I was willing to give. While many others, who sucked at serving, rarely cracked the 20% mark let alone consistently. A flat pay scale would leave you mostly with the servers who don’t care.

  24. elmer says:

    Comments like Karma’s are hysterical. Why is the restaurant business different from others? Isn’t it the owner’s responsibility to make sure its employees are performing up to some standard (some higher, some lower)?

  25. DT says:


    Though here’s my ambivalence: In waiting tables though undergrad, I’d guess I averaged close to $20/hr in wages and tips. I have a hard time believing that anyone would offer that to a server as a wage; therefore, I doubt very much that the price increase would pass through. That said, if I were assured that it would, I’d have no problem with that pricing scheme. The idea that it would make servers mediocre is ridiculous; servers would still rely on steady business to keep their shifts or jobs.

  26. Tom M. says:

    No, because there would be no way of ensuring that the restaurant manager/owner would pass along the entire amount of addition revenue to his/her employees.

  27. Patrician says:

    Yes. I’ve been around the world to countries that do not accept gratuities in restaurants and, being immersed in food culture, always chat up the staff to see how they feel about it. The majority prefer it this way, because they have income they can rely on, and the restaurant cuts dead weight staff for poor performance. Diners often speak directly or write to a manager describing service, and the establishment acts accordingly, with raises, promotions, demotions, or pink slips. My experience in these countries has been superb – not sure if we were lucky, or if the system works.

    Conversely, visitors to our country, as well as other gratuity-based destinations, is largely negative, in my experience: visitors go home feeling over budget and that hands are open everywhere: the cab, salon, restaurant, concierge, housekeeper…

    The restaurant managers, not the drunken patrons, kids or the uninformed, should determine the performance of a restaurant’s staff.

  28. ThePhoenixDown says:

    No. I wouldn’t want to remove the best incentive to ensure good service. And to the cynics who think the restaurant could raise prices but stiff the waitstaff…do you think they could actually get away with that? Obviously if a restaurant did away with tips and upped the prices, the servers would revolt if they didn’t earn an increased wage.

  29. Just Sayin says:

    No!! For 2 reasons

    1. Anyone who has ever traveled to a hotel or a resort where the “18% service charge” is already added in knows that the level of service usually blows. There is zero incentive for the staff to provide quality service!

    2. There are way too many shady owners in the restaurant industry-there is no way that the full 20% gratuity will make it to the servers intact. Even today, local caterers pay cooks, dishwashers, managers, sales staff, valets, secretarial staff etc… out of the “Service Charge/Gratuity” associated with an event. Not only is it highly immoral, it is also illegal!

  30. Laura C says:

    No, I think a COMPLETE CULTURAL SHIFT is needed.

    Everyone here needs to go to Japan, where you yell from your table for the server or push a button when you want something and they show up immediately and give you whatever you want and are never anything other than self-effacing, polite and thorough. Tipping is unheard of there; people are just really really good servers. If service here was anything like it is there, I would tip like 35%.

  31. Patrician says:

    Reminds me of another thought: do you enjoy it when the airline charges you for your bags when you get to the airport? Perhaps that should have been built into your budget when planning, but I always feel angry. If the $60 for two bags were built into the price of the ticket, or less than that amount if it were spread about among all passenger’s tickets, wouldn’t that be a more relaxing travel experience?

  32. pico de gallo says:


    I went to a non-chain restaurant on Wolf Rd a few months ago with a friend of mine and had THE worst service ive ever had in my life. It was just shambolic to the point where I was fuming and the person I was with couldnt believe how poor the service was. I tipped that person accordingly. Tipping dictates how you are paid. If you are THE worst server I’ve ever experienced, you are getting the big feck all in compensation for your ‘effort’. Even mediocre service gets the requisite percentage.

  33. Megan says:

    Yes. Servers are entitled to a living wage, and should not have to depend on tips to make ends meet.

  34. espressogeek says:

    If restaurants began to raise prices to accommodate for the increase in wages, do you truly believe that 15-20% would cover costs? What about the good wait staff that makes $150-$250 on a good night, never mind the rest of the week? If they work an 8 hour shift, that breaks down to $31.25 an hour on the high end. If a business needs to pay it’s worker $15-$25 an hour you can now make that $20 entree $45.

  35. dominic colose says:

    A 15-20% increase in pricing likely will not cover the cost of the increased wage expenses since an employer’s payroll taxes, medicare, and social security contributions will go up with more “on the books” labor costs. As well, disability insurance, unemployment insurance, and worker’s compensation are all based on overall payroll. I would imagine a 30% increase might be more realistic.

  36. jsc says:

    This may balance the Federal and State budgets! :-) imagine how much more income would have to be reported by busboys, waitstaff, bartenders, etc! The best part of waiting was the roll of bills in your pocket at the end of each shift—the paycheck hardly pays for anything. Europe essentially does the same thing and regards wait staff as a worthy/valued profession.

  37. mic says:

    No as I also am a person who can’t NOT tip (feels terribly ackward walking away from a table without leaving something). I also typically start my tips at 30% or more, partcularly when it’s a slow night for the server/bartender. I do have to chime in though and ask those above that leave less tip, or no tip, when they receive poor service…do you just leave less money or do you actually tell the waitperson and/or manager why? If you just leave less money chances are very good that the waitstaff just think you are cheap and, particularly if they are new to the job, they may not know that they have done anything wrong.

    For example, we had a young server the other night who tried to take my friend’s plate away while he was still eating, fork mid-air. Many would agree that is poor service and my friend wanted to stab him with said fork but I pointed out that the server looked quite young and this was probably his first job. When the server came back, I asked him how long he had been working (3 days by himself) and told him, jokingly but firmly, that the rule of thumb was to always ask and wait for the answer before reaching for someone’s plate or not only will his tip suffer but he might also get stabbed! He truly looked nervous and when I later gave him back the check, with a nice big tip, I reiterated that he will do fine as a waiter if he always remembers to ask first so he doesn’t get stabbed by any forks!

  38. Scott says:

    I don’t like the idea of tipping someone who gives my order to the cook and gets my drink. That is the job they signed up to do. I think the cook should be on the end of the tips because they are the ones who have to cook (or microwave) the food. The server is the go between and most of the time it is not the server who made the mistake and I said most of the time. Turning the tables on the chef should make the meal better.

  39. jeff says:

    giving a tip is for service the better the service the greater the tip , if the resturant or bar included the tip into the bill , i definately wouldnt patronize them

  40. Woodrow says:

    As I said earlier, No. But let me encourage folks to read #25 who speaks on the receiving perspective…good points.

    But #27 contradicts himself/herself by saying Yes, then saying they used to average $20/hr. Most likely they worked hard and smart to earn very good tips. May I suggest that there were fellow employees that made much less because they didn’t put in the same effort. If things are changed, and everybody gets an even share of a no-tip establishment, who would favor splitting 18% evenly among waitstaff?

  41. Mildred says:

    I’m fine with paying more as a base cost to a dinner, because I’m paying that much for the food anyway when you figure in the tip!

  42. Larry Sombke says:

    Yes, Yes a million times YES.
    1. That’s how they do it in France and service there is superb.
    2. Staff can earn a stable living wage.
    3. It prevents greedy owners from skimming tips and cheating the staff.

  43. Dacia says:

    There is no guarantee that the surcharge for the food sans tipping would trickle down to the wait staff. I’d rather reward the server directly. I am a good tipper; and for great service, I am a great tipper!

  44. Commenter says:

    Let me see if I get this right. Are all of the people who say NO and use the excuse that you think it is an incentive to do a better job/ give better service freely admitting that you don’t give a full effort in your own salaried/hourly non gratuity jobs?

  45. goldenjake says:

    No. I also encourage the reading of #25. But my reason is that its one of the last examples remaining in America, where a person can be a capitalist/self-employed (in a manner of speaking) with no capital outlay. Then, you get to reap what you sow. How great for a person to be in a position to do what #25 did. Kick butt on everybody else and make more than them! That’s capitalism.

  46. iknowtruthismine says:

    The whole notion of tipping came from the early custom that arose after all those chefs, having been tossed out of a job when their employers lost their heads, during the French Revolution, began opening restaurants there, and shortly after that in England. The waitstaff in such early establishments were not all that competent, so that patrons began bribing them at the start of the meal “To Insure Prompt Service” that soon was shortened to “TIPS”. It was inherently unfair in that those with more money could buy the attention of the waitstaff, and those who couldn’t afford it got short shrift, an idea that did not set well in a supposed egalitarian First French Republic. Eventually the “custom” was moved to the end of the meal to reward merit, and by stinting on the custom, punish incompetence. That is how it has remained to this day, with those unwilling to reward competence earning the disdain of the waitstaff and the title of cheap ……d. The system, as it exists, rewards the competent and punishes the incompetent, which is why I am amazed that so many Rightists are so cheap when it comes to a system that epitomises the best aspects of Capitalism.

  47. $cott says:

    Yes, saying there is no incentive for good service if not operating on a tip is like saying the chef has no incentive to make a good meal cause he doesn’t get tips. The better servers will get better salaries at the better restaurants and the cheap places that refuse to pay more than minimum wage will lose business for poor service. And the crappy servers will be canned a lot more quickly if the business is paying their full salary.

  48. Jonathan says:

    No – It would NEVER work in America.. Cash is king. Tipping is so ingrained into our society I don’t think you could ever change it.
    And BTW @13 Restaurant Advocate It is a very interesting NYT article But I would like to point out that the Restaurants mentioned are Per Se, The Union Square Cafe, The French Laundry and Chez Panisse!! Some of the greatest dining destinations in this country, where people spend hundreds of dollars each. I would love to work at any of these places (Or eat at any of them) But they are not exactly a representation of working in a “Real” restaurant in Anywhere USA..
    You might as well be Waiting Tables in Valhalla.

  49. Jonathan says:

    Everyone having this discussion should read the book “Keep The Change” by Steve Dublanica. It explores Tipping in America, it’s history and every job related to it. Very interesting read.

  50. Colleen T. says:

    Yes, of course I would go, but you can’t stop me from tipping if I want to!

  51. zack says:


    Commenter, if you don’t think human beings respond positively to incentives/rewards you are either naive, or a moron. Doing your job well is one thing. Knowing you will receive a financial benefit for doing it better is completely different.

  52. Julia says:


    • I’m in agreement with wait staff sharing the state and local tax burden that the rest of us bare.
    • I believe this would allow hiring managers to be more selective when looking for servers and making schedules
    • Those who say they tend to tip high can always add a gratuity if service is truly exceptional

    Are you going to tally the results? I’d be interested to know what the ratio of Nos to Yesses is.

  53. G says:

    Yes. And @Restaurant Advocate pretty much summed up the reason why I’d be fine with it. In no other service industry do we see people expected to make the great majority of their pay through tips. Whenever I’m in countries where waitstaff are paid decent wages, and aren’t expected to work for tips, if I find the service is better than what I would expect I’ll leave extra cash for the server.

  54. ann says:

    I suppose I would be fine with it as long as the service was still good and the waiters were given the extra.

    If the service wasn’t good though, I’d never go back.

    I don’t know if American culture would adjust well to such a practice though. I would predict that people would still tip and the wait staff would still expect a tip -which defeats the whole purpose.

    I’m totally fine with the way it is now, though and haven’t had bad service in years.

  55. RobertR says:

    #23, Got to love Willie Pittman. So true! :)

  56. RobertR says:

    Yes, I’ve been to restaurants were the service is included. But I guess it depends on the restaurant. No tipping incentive needed by the servers at the French Laundry. But then I almost always tip over the service charge anyway. Surely my wife will divorce me soon. :(

  57. Restaurant Advocate says:

    @WilliePitt, Those people are all still paid the same salary whether they do their job or not. That’s what I meant by the general public holding power over them.

  58. Ed says:

    No/Yes – Whether I’d like this or not would depend on how the restaurant changes it’s price structure. In general I dislike when a restaurant forcefully charges a tip to my party without any choice in the matter.

    What would seem OK to me would be if wait staff got real salaries, instead of being forced to live off of tips to get by. In few other industries are tips given like in the restaurant business.

    On the other hand, I recall visiting Japan and getting the BEST restaurant service of my life—without a question. Everywhere I went for any meal, from a ramen stall to a fine dining establishment, the service was amazing—and tips were not only not charged, they were not expected/allowed culturally. If you left money at a table, they would give it back and refuse to let you leave it.

    Maybe their country is unique and their work ethic different enough from ours, but I just imagine that if a restaurant is given free reign to charge more here, that somehow, our bills will get much higher, while wait staff won’t manage to see much in return.

    I think our culture may preclude this from having the desired effect.

  59. EZ says:

    Yes. I go to places for the food and 12 times out of 13 don’t have major critiques of the person bringing my food from the kitchen to the table. I can’t imagine debating every little service error when the check comes and only tip under 20% for those rare occassions of exceptionally aweful service. And I’m pretty sure that most servers don’t calculate exactly what they got from each person, unless the tip was excessively high or low. Do you really think they read a slip, calculate it at 17.12% and figure they have to step up their service game?

  60. Mark says:

    Yes, but only if it was across the boards; a real cultural change. Tipping is not the custom in many other countries. I think that a lone restaurant doing this might have a tough time.

  61. Thomas says:

    Maybe not true but I once read TIP’s origin is from an 18th century tavern outside London that had a wooden bowl on the bar inscribed To Insure Promptitude – TIP. I think it should have read Ensure so TEP (?).

  62. scarffster says:

    Nope, because a 20% pay increase for waiters and waitresses would just bring their salary to $6.68. Or even if they got paid minimum wage without gratuities, why would anyone who is skilled want to work for that amount?
    Steve, people have no clue as to the amount of work that a professional waiter/waitress has to do. I say waiter/waiteress because if a person is just a “server” they shouldn’t work for anymore than minimum wage.

  63. jh says:

    I was going to say no until I thought about #46 (Commenter). It’s a powerful point! I always worked my a$$ off (like # 25) in my profession and never received a tip.

  64. sadiemae says:


    but only if we all agree to stop using the phrase “that being said” in our comments.

  65. elmer says:

    In the world of business (successful ones) people are paid according to the value they bring to the business. If a waiter were making $100/night with tips, why would that same waiter not be worth $100/night in wages if tipping were verboten?

    How many people have a favorite waiter who is surrounded by sloths? It doesn’t happen, because the best won’t work in places like that. In the same way, in a post-tipping world owners who understand the value of service would pay for the best, with the next level paying a little less, down to Ruby Tuesday’s.

  66. Herbert says:

    I think what we’ve learned here is . . . a lot of commenters on this blog need to travel once in a while.

  67. DL says:

    Good question

    YES – I agree with sentiment expressed in #16 and with the comment that the actual markup to the diner would be significantly greater than the 20% tip. Let the menu prices reflect all the costs of running the business including paying employees what the market will permit. My guess is we’d be left fewer but superior choices.

  68. Bill In Glens Falls says:


    I automatically factor in 20 percent, and as a beer drinker, I think not tipping would really change my interaction with the bartender.

    It reduces the incentive for them as well.

  69. THAT Bob says:

    I’m with Elmer. No one should EVER be paid FOR their work, only the RESULTS of the work. Work itself has no intrinsic value!

  70. ChuckT says:


    Primarily because tipping by percentage is nonsensical. Breakfast at my favorite diner runs $4 plus tax, so the waitress, in theory, gets $1; my lunch burger at Applebees costs $12, so the waiter gets $2.50; my dinner at Dinosaur BBQ costs $20, so the waitress gets $4. For my evening snack, I hit McDonalds and the server gets squat. In each instance, the server provided the exact same level of service as the others, but because my food was more expensive one server “earned” 4x tip over the other. How is this even remotely rational?

    Add in drinks, the situation becomes more absurd–coffee at the diner, adds $.75 to the bill, so very little to the tip; soda at Applebees, $2.50, so a bit of a bump; a beer at Dino, a bit more. The waitress at Dino didn’t even pull the beer, but gets a bigger bonus. What about wine service? A server gets a fatter tip because I bought a $40 bottle of wine, over a $20 bottle.

  71. tipsy says:

    maybe – I have always been concerned that waitstaff were not receiving their entire tips – I have heard stories of how tips are pooled and divided so even those who provide less than stellar service receive the same amount as those who go above and beyond – I have also heard about owners of restaurants not giving full tips, etc – I would have to be assured that the waitstaff was paid fairly. However, I would also be concerned that the waitstaff would see a huge decline in total compensation because on a busy evening at a good restaurant, a great server can make a great living – what would be a fair wage? Hard to discern.