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RE: Encourage != Force
By mdogs444 on 11/9/2009 12:03:33 PM , Rating: 0
No one is forcing people to purchase the WSJ on newstands either. No one is forcing you to get cable tv, watch cable, watch the news, or read news on the internet.

But soon, you will be forced to pay for healthcare, or be penalized by jail.

RE: Encourage != Force
By heffeque on 11/9/2009 12:55:44 PM , Rating: 5
You're forced to pay for politician's salaries too... and for the roads... and for public education...
What's wrong with you? If you want to live in your own little bubble... build yourself a boat and live in the middle of the sea.

RE: Encourage != Force
By itbj2 on 11/9/09, Rating: 0
RE: Encourage != Force
By ClownPuncher on 11/9/2009 1:45:24 PM , Rating: 5
People get jailed and fined all the time for not having automobile insurance.

RE: Encourage != Force
By itbj2 on 11/9/2009 1:56:09 PM , Rating: 3
That is because they are driving a car and could potentially harm somebody or property to the point that they could not pay for it. So unless you weigh 1500 lbs and can run at 60 MPH I don't see what you point is.

RE: Encourage != Force
RE: Encourage != Force
By itbj2 on 11/9/2009 2:09:23 PM , Rating: 4
With that logic you should start charging health insurance for every animal that might come in contact with humans.

Democratic Health Care Bill for Raccoons.

RE: Encourage != Force
By Silverel on 11/9/2009 2:17:59 PM , Rating: 2
Screw em. Throw the raccoons in jail.

I can't imagine how many unsavory raccoons I come in direct contact with on a daily basis. Standing in line at a fast food place, sitting in cubicles where I work, taking up space in the urinal next to me in the bathroom. Gawd! Those damn raccoons are gonna kill us all!

Then there's the birds! Everywhere! Hell, by the time we get these raccoons insurance, the birds are going to be killing everyone. At least we'll be able to free up some of those silly gun control laws to take care of those things.

O wait...

RE: Encourage != Force
By VitalyTheUnknown on 11/9/2009 2:36:18 PM , Rating: 2
On animal vaccination. (Wiki)

Vaccinations of animals are used both to prevent their contracting diseases and to prevent transmission of disease to humans. Both animals kept as pets and animals raised as livestock are routinely vaccinated. In some instances, wild populations may be vaccinated. This is sometimes accomplished with vaccine-laced food spread in a disease-prone area and has been used to attempt to control rabies in raccoons.

Where rabies occurs, rabies vaccination of dogs may be required by law. Other canine vaccines include canine distemper, canine parvovirus, infectious canine hepatitis, adenovirus-2, leptospirosis, bordatella, canine parainfluenza virus, and Lyme disease among others.

RE: Encourage != Force
By itbj2 on 11/9/2009 2:45:41 PM , Rating: 2
Your point is? Nobody forces anybody to get a dog or cat. If you choose to get one you have to be responsible for your pets care and well being. But you have a choice.

The Democrats just need to stop lying and just let everyone know that they will Tax them so that everyone can have health insurance. Mandating someone to get something is a Tax. So call it what it is.

RE: Encourage != Force
By VitalyTheUnknown on 11/9/2009 3:54:28 PM , Rating: 3
The point is, you have always paid for Public Safety and
no one has any illusions that health-care will be totally free, people just hope it will be more affordable.

RE: Encourage != Force
By mdogs444 on 11/9/09, Rating: -1
RE: Encourage != Force
By VitalyTheUnknown on 11/9/2009 4:38:06 PM , Rating: 2
RE: Encourage != Force
By JohnnyCNote on 11/9/2009 8:36:16 PM , Rating: 5
as well as those ignorant blacks who all though Obama was going to pay for their mortgage, heating bills, and gasoline.

Or ignorant whites who think he wasn't born in Hawaii, is a muslim and keeps a "muslim flag" in his office . . .

RE: Encourage != Force
By MrPoletski on 11/10/2009 4:14:44 AM , Rating: 2
That's not ignorance, that's just retarded.

RE: Encourage != Force
By heffeque on 11/9/2009 3:06:03 PM , Rating: 5
It's interesting how US's current president is trying to make the US a better country by making the health system Universal... and people complain.

Precisely the crappy private health system the US has is one of the things that makes the US more similar to countries with thriving money sacks like Kuwait, China and Arabia Saudi than first world countries with better quality of life. That and the death penalty. It's quite impressive to see such a technologically advanced country still have such medieval ways.

62% of bankruptcy in US families in 2008 were health related. It makes 1 million citizens go bankrupt every single year and kills 45.000 people that have no coverage.

The Twin Tower collapse killed 3.000 .
The current crappy health system is killing 45.000 people A YEAR
And makes 1.000.000 people go bankrupt also every single year.

Those numbers seem like they correspond to an undeveloped country, not a first world country.

If the current health system doesn't seem f¡cked up enough... here are some other numbers that you probably ignore:

Countries like Spain spend 5 times LESS money per person yet has a Universal health coverage that delivers much better health outcomes such as a much lower infant mortality rate, a higher life expectancy and the highest organ donations and transplants in the world. All in a system where public and private hospitals coexist without any legal problems.

You should check "Jeff Goldsmith healthcare comparison" in YouTube to get some professional information about it and not some biased Fox News reports saying that the universal health system is crap, and then show UK statistics. Great work, Fox, put the numbers of one of the worst universal health system in planet earth to prove your point.
I don't expect Obama's plan to go as well as Spain's, Slovenia's, Finland's, etc health systems from one day to another, but with years of work I'm sure that it will be totally worth it. I doubt that it'll end up being as crappy as UK's (I hope not).

RE: Encourage != Force
By christojojo on 11/9/2009 3:41:49 PM , Rating: 2
You must not live in New York State. We have lots of programs. Actually hostage programs every time the politicians need more money they hold them hostage. WE have a budget deficit crisis so right away we will be forced to cut education funding or roads or something tangible. They never ever cut appointed jobs like staffing for the politicians themselves.

Don't get me wrong I think health care regulation is a good idea, I just don't want it held to my head every time they need a fund raiser like they do with schools and roads.

Social security is always broke when money needs to be found and the same with medicare.

Social security was sold as a solution to poor people and the middle class to retire now it is just a supplement. DO you really think that this will be any different in health care?

Even if you trust Obama, do you trust his successors and politicians in charge of this? Seriously?

RE: Encourage != Force
By heffeque on 11/9/2009 4:17:51 PM , Rating: 4
Yeah... first lets cut on education... then on health... then on retirements... then on scientific research...
But let's not cut on war machinery!!!

I have a better idea... LET'S LIBERATE ANOTHER COUNTRY! Which one is it going to be this time? China... Russia... North Korea? We've got enough money to spend... on WAR! HURRAH!

RE: Encourage != Force
By ClownPuncher on 11/9/09, Rating: 0
RE: Encourage != Force
By mdogs444 on 11/9/09, Rating: 0
RE: Encourage != Force
By aj28 on 11/9/2009 8:10:36 PM , Rating: 4
But the point is that you have a choice on whether you want to be a driver or not.

You have a choice on whether you want to live in this country.

RE: Encourage != Force
RE: Encourage != Force
By aj28 on 11/9/2009 8:13:50 PM , Rating: 3
Yep, the left wing way - penalize success, reward failure. Rinse & reuse.

Unless you plan to just roll over and die next time you become ill or are injured, your failure to cover your own health expenses is going to turn into a burden on others.

Or do you only see things within your bubble, the right wing way?

RE: Encourage != Force
By JohnnyCNote on 11/10/2009 9:52:06 AM , Rating: 4
It's to keep lazy ass people who have no intention of getting a good job alive.

Do you also hate disabled veterans who are unable to work? What about someone who worked for all his life, then comes down with kidney disease and needs dialysis? Is he "lazy ass" because he can no longer work and needs help paying the thousands of dollars (well over $100k annually in this case) for treatment he needs to keep alive long enough to get a transplant?

Or are you just full of anger and looking for anything to label "liberal" and thus feel justified in using it as an outlet for your hostilities? Have you ever been out in the real world and seen what's going on?

Do you realize it costs more now for you to pay for "lazy ass people" who can't afford health insurance than if it were provided for them before they got sick? Or do you want to ignore the facts because they get in the way of your obvious hatred for those less fortunate than you?

RE: Encourage != Force
By MrPoletski on 11/10/09, Rating: 0
RE: Encourage != Force
By MrPoletski on 11/10/2009 11:01:02 AM , Rating: 2

you could do us all a favour and opt to not live!

Then you wont need health insurance!

RE: Encourage != Force
By callmeroy on 11/9/2009 2:32:46 PM , Rating: 2
you over simplify....

First -- If the HC bill becomes law like or not the money is coming out of your pay before you even GET your pay, by way of taxes. So how are you going to stop them from taking the money out of your pay if its a federal tax?

Second -- Pretending you could some how dodge the tax being taking out that pays for the HC plan, you would be thrown in jail under the premise of being a tax dodger -- not really that you didn't "buy" health insurance.

RE: Encourage != Force
By borowki2 on 11/9/2009 2:36:49 PM , Rating: 2
Yeah, what's wrong with people. As a subscriber to, I'm sick of all the freeloaders out there. It's time for compulsory licensing. News is not a product, it's a human right. We have to ensure that everyone have access to it.

RE: Encourage != Force
By itbj2 on 11/9/2009 2:58:17 PM , Rating: 1
It probably buried some where in the 2000 page HC bill the house just passed. Probably under the heading of Mental Health Initiative. After all 40,000 people die every day because they could not get enough free news.

RE: Encourage != Force
By lagitup on 11/9/2009 4:42:11 PM , Rating: 2

You will not be forced. You have the choice: pay for healthcare OR go to jail. That's an important distinction.

RE: Encourage != Force
By drycrust on 11/9/2009 4:45:05 PM , Rating: 3
you will be forced to pay for healthcare

In many countries this is standard practice. I live in New Zealand and the health system is largely tax payer funded, but there is a private health system as well.
For people who are never unhealthy or take risks, e.g. running across the road in heavy traffic, then this is an unnecessary expense. Conversely, if one has family or friends who need to be hospitalised, and especially if it is of a repetitive nature, as happens with some of those mental illnesses, then a publicly funded system is a big relief.
When I was in China I saw many people begging (to my knowledge there isn't even health insurance) and for someone with a mental illness it would be much more difficult than for someone with an obvious physical problem because they would appear as fit and able to work when in fact they may not be able to.

RE: Encourage != Force
By christojojo on 11/9/2009 8:22:54 PM , Rating: 2
Once again in New York State we had one of the most extensive and supposedly best mental health care systems in the world. The politicians one day decided we couldn't afford it and needed money for some boon dongle so they cured all the mental health patients and set the free.

There have been crimes and increased begging and homelessness due to this not that that would be officially recognized but some well known cases have happened.

One was a male "cured" patient pushed a female tourist from Buffalo into a NY City subway path because the train "called for her".

The NY Sta corrections has taken the load. It is legislated for criminal mindset and not in handling phobias and such of a mentally challenged patient. This is not humane yet this type of stuff awaits us as we get older and say that we need a health care system the politicians really have no interest in running and fellow voters think will be free.

Do you really think you can trust politicians with your money and life. I trust then for as long as my money holds out and my vote is worth something to them. (I'm broke and they ignore my phone calls.)

