Saudi Arabia

The long day closes

As royal heirs succumb to old age, Saudi Arabia faces an uncertain future

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Time and Tide waits for none and there is no way fight them. Things are changing and dictators are being phased out. Tunisia, Egypt, Lybia are good examples. As a collateral effect of 9/11 number of students from the middle east studying in the west had considerably gone down. Many of the Western Universities have opened up their campus in the region to recoup the lost revenue. The students took advantage of this situation and these universities has started producing professionals. These enlightened young people is already proving to be a force to recon with.


Here is another take on Saudi Arabia by a Londoner... you know, like TE itself...

Garaboncias in reply to Thamir

Seriously doubt it. That would have given him more ammunition against the Catholic Church - not that he needed any; he feels pretty much the same way about all religions and all religious fanatics...

Andrius Burlega

Does Arab princess marries foreigners?

GuyFaukes1105 in reply to Andrius Burlega

I will assume you mean Saudi Princess? If so, then the answer is no. In fact, no Saudi citizen may marry a foreigner without the permission of the king. Otherwise their citizenship (and all the benefits that go along with it) gets dropped.

Deepcove79 in reply to GuyFaukes1105

This is not true. Saudi citizens are allowed to marry foreigners but their spouses will not be granted the Saudi citizenship unless approved by the ministry of interior affairs. Dropping the citizenship hardly happens in Saudi


Regardless of how hard the dictators or the apartheid regime in Israel (with the help of the neocons and AIPAC) are trying to prevent it, democracy is starting to develop in the Middle East. Nothing can now stop the floods. Even if it is the last one, the Arabian peninsula will one day establish democracy as well and get rid of the illegitimate saudi family with their extremist and perverse wahabi traditions. The saudis are the key source of terror funding and brutality throughout the world. Shame on the American government to protect them.

Libya: warlord fiefdoms, failed state; Egypt: continued military dictatorship, albeit under new dictators, with a PR veneer of democracy; Yemen: see Libya; Syria: see Yemen.

Arab culture is dominated by values which are geometrically opposed to democracy: first clan, then tribe, then sect, and above all else, women are chattel.

Do you know what Islam means in Arabic? Submission. That is their societal conception of one's relation to power. Absolute, unconditional submission. There'll be timeshare condos on the moon before the middle east sees true democracy. It's just not in their cultural DNA.

Watch this get pulled for insufficient political correctness.

Yeah, but who gets to gets to decide what God wants? An ayatollah or an imam. You're parsing here; it still comes down to submitting unconditionally to a religious tyrant with the full power and authority of the modern police state. Pull that.
And then regale us with your admiration for the gentle practice of honor killings.

Ron, Islam is an Arabic word and it means "Peace".And in Islam submission is ONLY to God. But you know the has made the differences everywhere.I donot think, barring a microscopic lunatics at one hand and the Politician-Beaurucatic nexus at the other, any Muslim or Christian or Jew wants to kill other...everyone wants that they and their children get education, employment, a house and a respectable retired life and death.
I think for everyone, the Case of Ghaddafi is the most visible one. At one end he described those against him as Al-Qaeda people, and at the other he was talking of 'Crusaders' or 'western Imperialism'....
On the other hand did you see the the lies flown across the board to dislodge a tyrant named Saddam ? Real Weapons of Mass Destructions were unleashed to destroy the non-existing Weapons of Mass destruction....The Liars are relaxing now in Ranches and some are employed as image builders by Govts...Muslim Govts.
History is the mother of all facts & truths....and I remember only one Sanskrit shlok : "Satyameva Jayate" which is Government of India official motto: 'Truth Alone Triumphs". Long Live Truths.


One of the problems I see with the Saudi family is that they continue to be manipulated by the Bush family and their related underpinnings of International Investors. Consistently the Bush family and related investors have manipulated the Saudi family to make small wins but larger losses in relation to their overall influence. The Saudi family has been manipulated into tearing apart their own ethical foundations (ethical systems provides for accumulating opportunities), and as such has cut themselves off from economic and political opportunities. Dubai, Kuwait, and Iraq have been tools systematically developed to promote prosperity for a few in Saudi Arabia, at the expense of the country's wealth.

Small minds manipulated by the Bush family; puppets of a syndicate.

Yeah, right. I'm guessing if someone breaks wind near you, it's Bush's fault. Saudi Arabia is such a puppet of the U.S. it kicked out all the American oil companies, played a key role in founding OPEC and bankrupting the rest of the world, and continues to fund madrassas to spread islamic hatred and terrorism. Damn that Bush, he's such a bad man.
Have you sought help?

Realities in reply to MaoSayTongue

It's no longer called that. That is a historical acronym, it's now called the Saudi Arabian Oil Company. It's no longer a US puppet, it never was. But the neocons, who ostensibly care about democracy worldwide, won't do anything there because Saudi Arabia's continued predictability under autocratic rulers is an important part of American interests.

Oggington Fartworthy

"...the kingdom’s most important alliance, with America, may face increased pressure. The United States is no longer reliant on Saudi Arabia for more than a small fraction of its energy needs...This raises doubts about its strategic intentions."

What exactly makes the Kingdom's alliance with America its "most important" is the real story here. The troops the Kingdom sent to Kuwait during the first gulf war ran away in fear from the advancing Iraqi Army. Saudi Arabia has no real defense of its own to speak of. Left on its own, one of its more powerful neigbhors would overrun the country in a matter of days...Iran, which certainly has the means and the motive, or Turkey, which at least has the means. The only thing standing in their way is Saudi partnership with the U.S. which dates back to the beginning of their royal dynasty.

So, all these fat idle men and their corruption is thanks in large part to U.S. largess. The same was true of Hosni Mubarek in Egypt and a host of other Middle Eastern tyrants. The Saudis are stockpiling weapons now not because they fear Iran but because they realize the US won't protect them from a popular uprising. They will turn those weapons on their own people like Bashar Al Assad has is doing. And where do you think most of the weapons are coming from? And what will the U.S. do when the day comes?

If Bahrain is any indication, the US will turn a blind eye. Bahrain, where there have been almost daily protests on a similar scale as those in Egypt, gets no coverage in the media. Why? We know the Bahrain government is suppressing protests, in some cases violently, with help from the Saudis, which can only offer Bahrain US bought weapons and resources. So, by extension the US is helping to suppress a popular uprising in Bahrain through the Saudis. Yet Syria receives almost 24 hour coverage in the US media.

Americans like to think they live in an open society with a free press. While the press may not be controlled by the State, it is certainly deferential to state interests. The US has an interest in sustaining the corrupt monarchies of the gulf states because otherwise Islamists and Iran would have a field day.

There are two ways reform can come to Saudi Arabia. One is through the house of Saud and the other is through Islamists like Osama bin Laden. If the Islamists take control of reform, guess who will be their number one supporters...Iran.

It's a chess game and the U.S. would like to think it's Bobby Fisher but we all know what happened to Bobby Fisher.

Thamir in reply to Oggington Fartworthy

Saudi INVITED the US in during the first gulf war, the US responded with overkill, half a million US troops, where 100,000 would have been enough. 30 other nations participated, 50k from UK, 20k from Egypt and France, 10k Syria, Moroco, Kuwait, Oman, and a dozen countries bringing the coaltion to over 30 nations.

The second largest army was the Saudi army, 100k, they participated in air raids and lost 3 jets.

Pre gulf war, military spending was non existent, today its 7th in the world at 50$ billion thanks the Saddam era Iraq and currently Iran.

The Saudi military is twice as strong as Turkey, and 10 times stronger than paper tiger Iran.

As for Saudi military pointing weapons at their own people, dream on.

Endlessness in reply to Thamir

The Saudis Army is totally dependent on foreign weapons and western strategies. They have a close military treaty with US and are very vulnerable in any regional war without the full support of US & UK.
But Iran developed surprisingly its conventional and unconventional arsenal alongside its efficient asymmetrical capabilities in the post Iran-Iraq war period with her national/local potentialities and experts.
Above these, in any probable clashes in the region, the number, effectiveness and motives of Iranian Army and IRGC personnel are far higher than their Saudi counterparts.

All the Saudi's Infrastructure, oil refineries and its main cities can demolished severely in the first few hours of war under the heavy-load rockets rain from Iranian southern provinces :)

Uh-huh thought so in reply to Thamir


I totally grok that you feel obligated to defend Saudi honor here. I'd do the same if I were in your shoes. But do you really believe the Saudi military is in the same league with Turkey's or Iran's?

Secondly, do you really feel Saudi Kingdom is sustainable the way she's going? I ask since you say you're a Saudi-American, someone who has seen things that many (most?) Saudis have not seen and felt. Or are you one of those privileged Saudis with no conception of how the Saudi equivalent of regular joe goes about lives?

Thamir in reply to Uh-huh thought so

Thanks for the groking!

The military is in a higher league, more spending, more training, fighter pilots clock the highest flight

hours compared with world average, tons of suppliers selling high end jets and tanks: US, China, Russia,

Germany, England, Spain, Brazil. But its always US deals that makes the most headlines! Israel objected to

the 1992 sales deal and objected again 2 decades later when the Saudis decided to upgrade!

Iran can have millions of soldiers but modern battles are won by air superiority which is overwhelmingly on

Saudi's side. Saudi has the capability to initiate a supression of enemey air defenses and then ground forces are open


As for the economy, it is slowly but surely moving away from oil exports, there is exports in refining, petrochemicals, fertilisers, plastics. Ranked 11th globally in ease of doing bussiness and dozens of global companies are opening offices, ranked in the top 10 for foreign global investment, money inflows reaching 40 billion. It tells me outsiders have confidence in the stability and future of the economy.

Falling unemployment from the 20% a decade ago to 10% currently is a huge achievement, there was a time when the country heavily needed foregin labor due to lack of skills and manpower, today the country reached self suffecieny in the labor market and there is slow but growing unease at anyone foreign because "they take our jobs!". Anyone who knows of the H1B and how US corporations prefer cheaper foreign labor over domestic can understand the similar situtation in Saudi.

The "average joe" is well educated and the 100,000+ on US scholarships will only add to the skillpool since most don't have immigration on their mind and the country will not have a "brain drain" anytime soon.

Saudi came a long way, it just needs better PR! Its better at self criticisim than self agrandizing in news papers and the general public psyche.

The royals have broad public support and allegiance, out of love, not fear. There are talks by many royals of turning the country into a constituional monrachy, once the necessary civil instututions have matured. Saudi does not need a messy revolution, but a clean and smooth evolution.

gooz in reply to Thamir

Really? If they are 10 times stronger than Iran, as you say, why are they so afraid of the Persians? Why do they need the US as their protector? If Saudi Arabia didnt have oil, they would be sub-Saharan Africa right now. A country run by a king is so 15th century, they should get with the times and introduce a little democracy.

Maximiliano Herrera

I agree. Saudi Arabia looks like a timing bomb. Her rulers are not in touch with population at all.
Its half way to appease conservative but to fight extremism makes , in pratice, nobody happy.
Ultra-religious see the government as slave of the West, and ordinary people are oppressed by the lack of freedom and opportunities.
Not to mention the origin of the royal family and his bizarre dynastic succession amongst supposed half-brothers. It might take 15,20,25 years but this regime is going to be challenged , shaken and who knows...perhaps ousted,if it won t be able to reform itself radically.


“PRAISE be to Allah” that sorcery and blasphemy are still punishable crimes under the House of Saud! Must get back to rubbing my lamp...

Ron Courtney - Austin Texas

The real threat to the Saudis is natural gas, hydrogen and lithium. In 1905 most people had no idea how quickly we were about to move away from horse-powered transportation. Similarly, very few can visualize a world in the short-term future where petroleum is a relic of the past. But it's going to happen, slowly at first and then, like television, PC's and cellphones, very very suddenly.

And then? You'll have 30+ million people living in a desert with no viable economy, and the "royals" will have long-since deplaned with their swiss bank accounts for greener pastures. Add to this the effect global warming is going to have on food prices, and these people are doomed.

Nah, they're not doomed, if the so called international community knows to act rationally.
The UN should withdraw funds from Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East (UNRWA) and assist Saudis who - you're right here - will face a real catastrophe. After all, there is no such thing as Palestine Refugees in Near East for quite some time, they've all passed away years and years ago, and their progeny were born out of "that place", so they're naturalized citizens of other countries.
As to global warming, if such animal exists, it will force food prices down: warmer climate in formerly inhospitable areas will bring more crops and pastures. Long live global warming! Carbon dioxide is the best friend of humankind!

Actually, global warming will significantly increase the frequency of extreme weather events. Which by the way destroy crops. This has already started; the spike in grain prices (caused by extreme weather events in Russia, Australia, Brazil and Argentina) was one of the main factors in the riots which kicked off the Arab Spring.

Aw, you don't say so! How come that fellow Arabs don't grant citizenship to several generations of their own born in their countries? It wouldn't happen in the evil West, no way...
However, that doesn't change the fact that people born out of Palestine cannot and are not Palestinian Refugees.

Very nice, there're great many people maintaining their ancestral identity in different countries, in the US they have this funny fashion to call them hyphenated Americans... you know, Spanish- Americans, African-Americans, Phoenician-Americans and so on.
Egyptian-Palestinians, or Lebanese-Palestinians sounds great to me.
Property deeds? Well, a lot of people have property in foreign countries, it doesn't entitle them to much, certainly to no political rights whatsoever.


Coming from a Saudi, I am ashamed of what is happening in my country. If I only had one wish, I would like to know when possibly the government will wake up. Words cannot even describe what i feel. It seems like all what matters to the government is that they still in power, regardless of the outcome. I truly believe that we have wasted 50 years worth of oil revenue on NOTHING. Only the fat pockets, got fatter.
My father's advice (who have worked for the government for 30 years and never missed a day of work) don't work for the government.
I would like to say sorry, for my sons and grandsons, for what is coming in the future.

Thank you,
A Helpless Saudi from the heart of Najd.

Yankee Kid

If any of you are interested, I got to know Ibn Saud somewhat. Do any of you remember when the Italians bombed a town near by from the airfield we engineers built there during WW-ll? It took over a year for us to get it done and I got to know the Saudis real well.
There was a huge difference between the Arabs in Saudi Arabia and those in north Africa. There is no doubt Ibn Saud loved his people and I was forced to work with them and treat them well. They were a proud people. Any questions?


Solomon was not a magician, he was a prophet. Otherwise, interesting article.

Reluctant Polluter in reply to H.S.T.

Look, the lawyer in this story cited Koran, and Koran is something like poor, sometimes lampoonish paraphrase of Jewish and Christian originals. That is how King Solomon, The Prophet, becomes a magician. All pagan cults are heavily influenced by magic.

H.S.T. in reply to jouris - old account

What tradition was it citing from, I wonder? It seems reasonable that in an article about Saudi Arabia the tradition in question is the Islamic one. In the Koran, Solomon is a prophet, not a magician. In the Islamic way of seeing things, calling an honored prophet like Solomon a magician is a grave insult.

H.S.T. in reply to Reluctant Polluter

If you are reluctant to pollute, how about just refraining altogether? Obviously you have no knowledge of the Koran nor Islam, but you are right in implying that making assertions about something you have no knowledge of is a form of pollution.

jouris - old account in reply to H.S.T.

The Arab world has stories, just as the Christian world does. consider the stories in the Arabian Nights, and the stories of djinns that have made it into Western literature.

They are not formally part of Islam -- and, as I understand it, some Muslim clerics (especially fundamentalist ones) object strongly to them. But they have been around a long time.

mandy jean cole

Saudi Arabia is an inexcusable sycophant state which just happens to have a plethora of what the world needs, as a Country it has no substance,its cowardly its misogynist and has no backbone, it seemingly has no agenda for joining the human race, thus far its achievements to the world apart from living on top of vast oil fields amounts to a holed bucket in the sand ,and a lesson to all that have opulent wealth thrust upon them that money alone doesn't make you a class.act.. or indeed even a likable one.MJC


Saudi Arabia is regressive, corrupt and illiberal. Its rulers are barbarous gluttons, grown fat and idle. Their Wahabi fanaticism is responsible for the extremist Islam pervading the Middle East.

But while the KSA controls the oil, the West and media outlets such as the Economist will pander obsequiously to this dreadful Kingdom.


Interesting to see so less comments on such an intriguing article ..... Do people in Saudi have access to economist online ? .... If not then only 3 words for them ..."IGNORANCE IS BLISS" .... enjoy the oil while it lasts .

Thamir in reply to guest-isjenlw

Hey buddy, I'm Saudi. And I'm also Saudi-American. So my understanding of the middle east and the west is vast.

We shake our heads whenever we get verbal assaults from people who've never been in the kingdom. Visit it, live in it, get opinions from westerners living in it, then form your opinions.


Saudi Arabia is the most advanced country in that part of the world, a global economical power house, at the price of 100$ for oil, only 55% of Saudi Arabia GDP is from oil revenues!! Saudi Arabia by the day is becoming stronger and more influential regardless all of the enmity & conspiracies from backwards terrorists regimes in Israel, Iran, Syria Iran and the soviets, Saudi managed to over come them, Actually manye arab & muslim states are very much dependent on the aids and generosity of the Saudis.

Saudi Arabia just needs to to get rid of corruption and the sky is the limit for them, a civilization that ruled the world for 10 centuries came from there and will come from there again, regardless of all the envy and jealousy the face from their primitive poor neighbors, who couldn't run thier countries succefully

jason9139 in reply to JorgeSolari

I'm most curious as to which civilization you speak of that 'came from there'

Do you refer perhaps to the ottoman empire? To the old islamic empires (those were hardly under one republic and certainly never 'ruled the world,' and their power largely diminished by the 15th century)? I would hardly call all your neighbors primitive economically or politically. As one of the few remaining monarchies on the planet, I would hardly call Saudi Arabia the most advanced either. Great potential? Yes. Over half the economy based on oil extraction? Not a good portent for the medium/long term.

Also, btw: the soviet union no longer exists. Just thought I'd give you that little heads up!

YUSSEL in reply to JorgeSolari

Fact is Saudis have been doing other interesting things like buying billions and billions of arms and weapons when they hardly ever do any fighting, relying on Americans and NATO to defend their borders and royals.

Unfortunately, they do not "just need to get rid of corruption." The Saudis I have known who are executives and managers are generally bright and hard-working guys. But the bulk of the Saudis simply act entitled -- even if they have jobs, they don't expect to actually work, just to get paid.

So it won't just take an end to corruption. It will take a significant cultural change for Saudi Arabia to become strong and influential once the oil runs low. And cultural changes happen only slowly and reluctantly. Most likely, it will take a generation or two of being poor to make it happen. (And meanwhile, the brightest Saudis will take their expertise elsewhere.)

DullerBill$ in reply to JorgeSolari

Advanced is just ignorance
!0 million misogynist religeos biggots served by 10 million foregners too desperate or afraid to stand u for the real victims 10 million Saudi women.
Advanced Ive been there,Compare to Qatar Israel or Oman its like the middle ages with mobile phones and fast food.
Who will power the air conditiners at Granada Mall and the whorehouse when the oil runs out.

jason9139 in reply to MaoSayTongue

I still wait eagerly for you to actually name an empire. The Romans in the West collapsed for foreign invasions and economic decline (fall in trade primarily), while the Eastern-Roman Empire, headed in Constantinople continued under the Byzantine-line until the Ottoman Empire finally sacked the capital and renamed it Istanbul in the 15th century. I'm under the impression you are referring to the Arab culture in general, and to the invention and use of Algebra (not mathematics in general, to which I'm aggrieved to inform you no one can claim to have 'invented').

MaoSayTongue in reply to jason9139

Algebra IS mathematics. Addition, subtraction, multiplication, division, and fractions are all ARITHMETIC if there is no ZERO.

The Arabs drove the ROMANS out of the Levant within 30 years of the Prophet's death; and out of the Magreb within another 30. And then they crossed the Strait and kicked the crap out of the Visigoths.

(The term 'Byzantine Empire' was coined by 19th century British historians for the sole purpose of denying Romanhood to the Eastern Roman Empire, making them 'The Other,' in order to strengthen the French/British claim to Roman inheritance; the 'Byzantines' called themselves ROMAN.)

jason9139 in reply to MaoSayTongue

While i believe we are straying slightly off point, I shall respond nonetheless.
Algebra is a *branch* of mathematics, no argument there. But there are plenty of other branches other civilizations have contributed to or created. Statistics, calculus, geometry being some of the innumerable others that make up the whole of shining subject of mathematics.
"The Arabs" is not a civilization, it is a collective group or culture based on religion, region, or self-identity. The Romans were a civilization with a capital and government. I have yet to hear the answer to my original question, if you please.
A name is in the end only a name, you know what i meant thus the meaning is conveyed. Eastern Roman Empire, Byzantine Empire, does it really matter in this context? It existed for over a thousand years, I think it'd be understandable if they changed names or if it was simply lost in translation. Denying romanhood? plausible, someone wanted to be the only 'roman,' quite the brand you see. Strengthen French/British claims to roman inheritance? Where did you come up with that? Italians like to remember their glorious ancient history, the Holy Roman Empire that represented the dozens of fractious german states claimed some inheritance, but Britain? France? Really? You just lost some of my respect kind sir.

Bigmedge in reply to JorgeSolari

Saudi Arabia is almost entirely a backward land of Bedouin goat herders who understand nothing about science or technology, nor do they want to; they just understand their Koranic superstitions & the are deepest of Islam's hubris & abhorrence of self-critique.

Iran actually has a huge % of the young population who are engineers & computer programmers.

And Israel has by far the most engineers per capita of any country (check Wiki page "list of Israeli inventions & discoveries"),develops+exports endless computer & medical technologies that impderove people's lives all over the world. Plus they have always had real elections, & tolerate terrorist acts that which would've made Arab gov'ts kill 100s of 1000s of their own (as they did in Algeria,﻿ Sudan, & Iraq over the past 2-3 decades)


Imagine if Saudi Arabia was run as well as Norway. It would be an economic beacon, driving global demand. It is nowhere as rich as it should be, but it's monarch are more concerned with staying in power than actual economic development. If its humna cpital were developed they would rebel. Saudi Arabia should be one of the best R&D areas in the world, with lots of engineers and PHD's backed by government funded research, instead it's government funds religous zealots.

jason9139 in reply to davereidyardy

With about 27.5 million people in Saudi Arabia, I would hesitate to say it could 'drive global demand.' It certainly could be an economic and research beacon, as those need not be populous places. But even the most developed country, for instance let's take Norway with 4.8 million people, cannot effect the global demand for lack of- lets say economic heft. If I were to extrapolate Norway's GDP-per-person to Saudi Arabia, it would represent an economy of 2.4 trillion dollars (about a five fold increase in size). Taking that against the world economy, this Saudi Arabia still only represents 3% of the economic pie, against 23% for the US or 9.4% for China.

BigBeeHive in reply to davereidyardy

Saudi Arabia produces a lot of useless engineers and PhDs because these educated people don't need to use their brains and work hard for living or pay back their student loans because their king will give them wellfare money so they don't revolt as said in the article.

Many Saudis are immensely rich as stated in article and they hire maid and drivers. They don't even know how to wash their clothes, cook, or wash their own toilets, or don't even know how to drive or even recognize directions.

They are a bunch of useless people.


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