

OU Stats - March 2013

Discussion in 'BW OU' started by NixHex, Apr 3, 2013.

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  1. TheCanadianWifier

    TheCanadianWifier Sorry aboot that, eh?

    Mar 12, 2011
    So, I fail to understand why so many people are still complaining about the bad pokemon that are getting high usage. If you scroll down a biiiit farther, just below the "official stats" you find the 1850 stats. Here's a quick taste:
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    | 10 | Keldeo | 14.52078% | 87615 | 6.890% | 66980 | 6.553% |
    | 11 | Latios | 14.37881% | 125087 | 9.837% | 98238 | 9.612% |
    | 12 | Terrakion | 14.18682% | 111886 | 8.799% | 82435 | 8.065% |
    | 13 | Garchomp | 12.66682% | 144519 | 11.365% | 112895 | 11.046% |
    | 14 | Starmie | 12.21533% | 135772 | 10.677% | 105187 | 10.291% |
    | 15 | Landorus | 12.15138% | 73433 | 5.775% | 57176 | 5.594% |
    | 16 | Landorus-Therian | 11.63695% | 75886 | 5.968% | 65848 | 6.443% |
    | 17 | Celebi | 10.87653% | 81813 | 6.434% | 66617 | 6.518% |
    | 18 | Forretress | 10.83271% | 123040 | 9.676% | 105908 | 10.362% |
    | 19 | Latias | 9.96651% | 71083 | 5.590% | 55095 | 5.390% |

    Look more inviting? Yeah.. There's the Latias, Keldeo, BOTH Landorus' and even Celebi people are wanting!

    What people forget on here is that there are almost 2 completely different metagames in OU right now on showdown:
    You have the actual OU metagame, with the weather-wars and high-levels of playing.
    But you also have the completely nubby metagame, where the lowest of low players have sunk to. NO one that is THIS bad would come on to the smogon forums to comment on the official usage stats of OU, so that's why we never hear from any of them. They're a bunch of mystery players, that sink straight to the bottom of OU, where anyone with even a decent rank will NEVER be matched up with them. Seriously, if you don't believe me, log onto showdown, and open a few battles that just started. I'm willing to bet within 30 seconds you'll fins a match that features Infernape, Eletivire, Eeveelutions, Ambipom, etc..

    So before you start demanding to know "who would use Infernape over Latias!!".. well, these people would. And they do. A lot. And it's because of the sheer number of these nooby battles that the full stats are so skewed from 1850 stats. If you want to see where something is in the actual COMPETITIVE side of OU, be sure to check out the 1850 stats :]
    That is all.
  2. Tassa


    Jan 10, 2013
    Even 1850 stats are flawed.
    Why ?
    Because they are weighted in a way which does that average play has a great influence : it is based on the probability that a player "true rating" is over 1850.
    But if for people under 1850, this probability is really lower than for these above, there are way more people under 1850, meaning that in the end they count notably.

    I don't say that 1850 isn't more accurate, it is, but it's not a perfect picture.

    About the classical stats, I even don't want to analyze them...
  3. /B/utterfree


    Sep 3, 2010
    Alright. Let's look at the stats from an 1850 threshold perspective, shall we?

    The top 35 looks pretty solid, even though I'm a little iffy on Ninetales ranking so high usagewise.

    | 37 | Infernape | 5.72780% | 111521 | 8.770% | 89252 | 8.732% |

    Whether it's liked or disliked, Infernape is still commonly used even amongst the 1850 cutoff. It's not as common as, say, Breloom or Keldeo, but it's still used frequently in the 1850 stat.

    For those wantonly dissing Infernape, I challenge you to use Victini more if you want to see this guy drop to UU, or even RU. Or Darmanitan. Or any fast-hitting Fire-type that could possibly outclass Infernape (I doubt much actually does outclass it). Make a Dark Horse team if you're so adamant about this dropping - don't just complain about it. I also challenge you to get to 1850 (heaven knows how hard I'm trying to right now - I'm stuck in the early 1500's or late 1400's as far as ELO threshold is concerned).

    | 42 | Donphan | 4.64531% | 68431 | 5.382% | 56999 | 5.577% |

    I still contest people complaining about Donphan's usage, mostly because on Sun teams it's arguably one of the best guys for the Rapid Spinning job, since it doesn't have a x4 Fire weakness exacerbated (Forretress) and its STAB is not weakened by the weather (Starmie, Tentacruel, and arguably Blastoise).

    | 44 | Jolteon | 4.44205% | 90901 | 7.149% | 72709 | 7.114% |

    See, this is probably the only (other) significant contrast between the classical stats and the 1850s. And while I would be more than happy with Jolteon dropping to UU, I don't think Eeveelution fanatics are going to let that happen.

    If you're not using Thundurus-T, Magnezone, or Rotom-W, then it'd probably behoove you to use those guys instead of Jolteon. I'd probably ration that even on Hail teams you could use Raikou over Jolteon (I did at one point, and the team was doing handsomely until I switched over to Jolteon to outspeed crucial threats - later I fixed it with Thundurus-T being better than both of them, even with Raikou getting a really good Ice Weather Ball that opened me to using a different Hidden Power or none at all otherwise).

    | 46 | Reuniclus | 4.18361% | 49223 | 3.871% | 38238 | 3.741% |
    | 47 | Hydreigon | 4.12401% | 75680 | 5.952% | 59472 | 5.819% |
    | 48 | Vaporeon | 4.10336% | 73398 | 5.772% | 57251 | 5.601% |
    | 50 | Metagross | 3.52818% | 73693 | 5.795% | 59947 | 5.865% |
    | 51 | Haxorus | 3.51358% | 59224 | 4.657% | 44660 | 4.370% |

    Even using the 1850's for cutoffs, we still see that quite a few things are likely to drop down to UU. Among them Haxorus is likely to drop, especially if Tornadus-I decides to resurface in its place (and props if it does, but I doubt even that is going to occur). While UU claims to be close to being balanced, I'm willing to disagree. I think a few of these guys would more than help balance the tier (other than Haxorus I don't see what among these guys would genuinely be broken in the tier).
  4. Deluks917

    Deluks917 Ride on Shooting Star
    is a Tiering Contributor

    Nov 9, 2012
    1850 is not high. I am basically fully counted for 1850 stats. I am not a good player.

    I would like to see 2100 stats. Or at least 2000.

    On topic I am really not a fan of celebi use on offensive teams. Especially not the new standard of BP/Giga Drain/Recover/X. This brings basically 0 offfense. And often it lets various offense stuff get in for free. Unless they bring Landorus/Keldeo this thing does not seem worth it for offensive teams.
  5. dcae

    dcae naughty list

    Dec 9, 2011
    Personally I see 1900 being the best and most realistic benchmark. Regarding Celebs, I like to run BP/Gigs Drain/Psychic/Recover, and it provides a lot of momentum. While your opponent switches to something to deal with Celebi, you BP out and bring in something else. Thanks to base 100 speed and a great movepool, slot X can be used for a variety of options fitting the team. In my experience, Celebi is an amazing glue for offensive teams, pivoting and taking all the dirty hits, while absorbing status and maintaining momentum. Imo it is very good.
  6. Kidogo


    Feb 11, 2012
    I totally totally support celebi use in the current meta. I've been wanting to use it for ages and gene, torny, and deo bans have so so helped it out. @deluks, not at all true! Celebi is literally like THE best check in this meta for a TON of threats, including SF landy, keldeo, breloom, rotom-w (heck, basically any water), and even does a great job as the team's check for stuff like latios and garchomp if EVed in a particular defense. And it's actually one of my favorite defensive mons in terms of conserving momentum due to the ever-awesome BP--which coincidentally makes it one of the few keldeo checks not easily pursuit-trapped by ttar. I also dont see giga drain as a necessity on it, since it walls most waters well enough that it can afford to chip away at them with psychic. 64% usage with giga is sad though, more than recover!

    One niche nape has is as a sort of suicide lead, much like terrakion. It exchanges much higher attack, taunt, and better typing for fake out, the ability to go mixed, and much better coverage, which is definitely enough for a small niche. It's also a decent scarfer--one of the faster users of uturn and nice coverage for revenge-killing needs.
  7. Gary2346

    Gary2346 A filthy casual
    is a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon

    Aug 5, 2011
    | 39 | Lucario | 6.00059% | 82465 | 6.485% | 63086 | 6.172% |

    A lot of people seem to be ignoring this fellow right here. Lucario suffers from below average speed and a pretty bad case of 4th moveslot syndrome, but with proper team support its Swords Dance set is an absolute monster. Extremespeed negates its somewhat slow speed, and Close Combat at +2 can KO even Skarmory after Rocks, which is quite a feat indeed. Sure other SD sweepers such as Breloom may be favored, but Lucario's typing and access to an 80 base power priority makes Lucario an instant threat as soon as you hit Swords Dance. I used to think it was sort of a mediocre sweeper until I used him quite a bit, and I must say I find him sweeping teams more often then not. I think Lucario deserves at least 25 and below in usage. I think it's pathetic that Donphan is above it.
  8. The Unlucky one

    The Unlucky one

    Jun 5, 2012
    | 33 | Gyarados | 6.90890% | 89530 | 7.041% | 71541 | 7.000% |
    | 35 | Gyarados | 6.00412% | 89530 | 7.041% | 71541 | 7.000% |

    Really now? I honestly think Gyarados is a top 15 mon right now. It offensively checks Keldeo and Landorus decently without overly fearing Tyranitar. Not much can brag that and it's diversity is really hard to stop. It is also boosted by the most powerful weather and shares great synergy with another beast of the meta -- Thundurus-Therian. Any discussion on why it's not used too much?
  9. Halcyon.

    Halcyon. Mad, mad love
    is an official Team Rateris a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon

    Dec 29, 2012
    I agree, and the only things I can think of that would hold him back are his Stealth Rock weakness and the fact that many Scarfed Pokemon can revenge kill him even at +1. But he's seriously a monster that I feel a lot of teams are underprepared for.
  10. Magcargo 2

    Magcargo 2 Trickster with the sweet specs
    is a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon

    Feb 7, 2013
    | 46 | Hippowdon | 4.68473% | 48509 | 3.815% | 43926 | 4.298% |

    This is laughable. Hippowdon is amazing at setting up sandstorm. Unlike the offensive tyranitar, hippowdon can stay in battle for a long time thanks to slack off. Hippowdon is more likely to win weather wars than politoed, ninetales and tyranitar thanks to his massive bulk and reliable recovery. Despite facing competition with tyranitar, neither really outclasses the other. He definetly doesn't deserve to be below donphan and gliscor. IMO it deserves to be with ttar and politoed in the top five.
  11. RabidChipmunk


    Jul 18, 2012
    The biggest thing setting apart Tyranitar and Hippowdon is that, while both are equally good sand starters, no one really uses Tyranitar for sand; they use him to deal with annoying Psychic and Ghost-types that tend to bother Keldeo and Landorus, and Sand Stream is just a side effect. Hippowdon is really only good for setting up sand and nothing else, which isn't that big a force in the metagame.
  12. Wizarus


    Apr 2, 2011
    I'm pretty sure TTar is OU because of Sand first, and pursuit second.
  13. Pikachuu


    Jan 25, 2013
    Agreed. If Hippowdon had Drought instead It would probably be number 1 in usage and probably even be banned due to how good it is at keeping the weather. Sand isn't nearly as good as sun or rain. It's kind of hard to explain but the reason why T-tar is used more is because of the combination of hitting hard, taking special hits well, trapping and also being an answer to other weather all in one.
  14. MatchMaster


    Apr 3, 2013
    I've used Tyranitar primarily as a weather starter, and yeah, it doesn't function as well, since physical attackers dominate OU. It does take on Heatran pretty well though, as the only thing it fears from it is a 252+ Choice Specs Flash Cannon, which is more or less non-existent, and even the, it only 2HKOs, giving Tyranitar the chance to use Superpower on it.
  15. Bent1ey


    Feb 22, 2012

    TTar is always used as a Sand starter, but not always so you can get benefits from Sand, simply to neuter weather strategies. No one in their right mind would run Ninetales "just" to neuter other weathers.
  16. dcae

    dcae naughty list

    Dec 9, 2011
    In my lengthy experience, Hippo is a far superior Sand starter than Tyranitar, and is paired with real sand teams. Ttar is chucked on teams for Pursuit and the fact its easily changes weather. Honestly Ttar has scrappy STABs and gets shit on by the various Fighting types that roam OU. The reason why it has such great usage in 1850 stats isbit partners well with Lando and Keldeo. Nothing very special. Hippo is a top class poke that has extraordinary bulk, and should be used more, especially with the current rise of sand stall and return of a more balanced playstlye overall on the ladder.
  17. UltiMario


    Aug 11, 2009
    How is Rock, the second best offensive typing in the game, a crappy STAB?

    Admittedly, Rock/Dark isn't the best coverage in the world, but STAB Stone Edge (provided it actually hits) is absolutely amazing, and access to STAB Pursuit is the icing on the cake. 100/110/156 roughly equivalent defenses doesn't exactly hurt TTar either, giving it enough bulk to do its job.
  18. Bent1ey


    Feb 22, 2012
    Tyranitar has pretty decent STABs, thanks to its STABed Pursuit it has a great niche. Its typing is pretty awful on the defense side of things, but it's hardly what I'd call an awful STAB -that credit would go to people like Jirachi-.
  19. LucianRisingHero


    Dec 1, 2012
    Man, that Lucario usage pisses me off. LOWER than Donphan? Really?
    I blame the tendency for people to make teams centered around "push hydro pump" and lack any amount of late game strategy. I've wrecked whole teams after a single SD and rocks support.

    6% is way too low, especially when Infernape is above 7.5% (seriously why do people use that thing?)
  20. victinivcreate1


    Nov 22, 2012
    Seeing the most common scarfers are Terrakion, Keldeo, and Latios, I tend to run an SD/ESpeed/Bpunch/Close Combat.

    BPunch beats Terrakion.
    Espeed rapes all.

    The only thing here not getting outright OHKOed even after rocks is Keldeo.

    In fact, I'd Keldeo is Lucarios biggest fear. Lucario can't OHKO it unless on the switch with a +2 Close Combat.
  21. Halcyon.

    Halcyon. Mad, mad love
    is an official Team Rateris a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon

    Dec 29, 2012
    Yeah, Spikes support is really helpful with Lucario for this exact reason. it's also why Lucario works best as a late game sweeper instead of an early game one. Even still, with the amount of Tyranitar around trying to Pursuit everyone and their mother, Lucario doesn't have a hard time setting up a Swords Dance. Baton Pass Celebi and Latios make great partners for Lucario for this exact reason.
  22. Haunter

    Haunter just outplay the coin flip...
    Líder máximo

    Aug 6, 2007
    Unfortunately, Lucario suffers from 4th move syndrome: the choice between bullet punch, ice punch and crunch is a tough one. Without bullet punch you're stopped by scarf TTar and Terrakion, without crunch Jellicent walls you all the day and without ice punch you can't get past Gliscor and Landorus-T.

    Btw, while it's true that Lucario can't OHKO Keldeo with a +2 ES, it should be noticed that Lucario is best used as a late game sweeper, so chances are that Keldeo has takes some prior damange by the time Lucario attempts to sweep. Actually Keldeo only needs to take one turn of SS damage and 2 switches into SR to get OHKO'd by ES. And you don't need to be at +2 to OHKO Keldeo with close combat on the switch in, as a +0 LO close combat does 85% minimum, so that the following ES can easily take it out.
  23. HabibsHotDogs


    Apr 21, 2009
    I will never understand why people say it is hard to set up with Lucario..

    It resists


    Seriously, dragon, ice and rock are VERY common scarfed moves, especially when you have a Dragonite/Volcarona/Gyarados and other speed boosting sweepers to force the plays... Dark is not so common but if you like justified or enjoy the use of Lati's and Gengar then it becomes a cakewalk to sweep. I personally use inner focus because usually Jirachi are a bigger nuisance than random crunches from the odd Tyranitar.

    It also enjoys set up turns on pokemon like Ferrothorn and Blissey that have revealed their sets too soon (ie no thunderwave) and I can assure you its enjoying the dip in Gliscor usage and the fact that Gothitelle is available in OU..

    *never use crunch or ice punch anymore* checking in :)
  24. Arcticblast

    Arcticblast I want to be Splatooned
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Battle Server Moderator Alumnusis a SPL Winner

    Nov 29, 2008
    Lucario can't actually take many hits even from those resisted types (except the 4x resists, maybe) due to its subpar 70/70/70 defensive stats.
    252+ Atk Dragonite Outrage vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Lucario: 147-174 (52.12 - 61.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    252+ Atk Choice Band Tyranitar Stone Edge vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Lucario: 92-109 (32.62 - 38.65%) -- 99.39% chance to 3HKO - better, but that's still a hefty chunk for an offensive Pokemon to take.
  25. BlackLight


    Jan 26, 2012
    Why the hell does the OU usage stats thread, every month, turn into a discussion about Lucario?

    Anyways, I'm sort of surprised the Dragonite is seeing such high usage, being #5 in regular and #7 in 1850. Not saying that it isn't good, but its... sorta high maintenance, isn't it? I mean, its Stealth Rock weak, its Speed isn't the best, and it sorta needs all residual damage out of the way to be at its best. It just seems pretty odd that a Pokemon you really need to build around is so high up there, compared to all the ones that can be slapped on a team and perform.
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