

I still haven't moved out, do I take everything? Part 2

(609 Posts)
FarOverTheRainbow Wed 27-Nov-13 21:49:43

This is a follow on from the first thread I done in AIBU here's the link

I can't thank everyone enough for all the help and support you've given me. It's been invaluable and you lovely people have helped get me out of a really dark place and are still doing so. When I read the start of my old thread and think about how I felt 8 weeks ago I never thought I'd be where I am now and even though I still have a long long way to go I wouldn't be half way here if it wasn't for the support here very soppy but so true

I hope I don't lose anyone moving to here

springytickly Wed 27-Nov-13 22:12:39

here! wink

HoratiaDrelincourt Wed 27-Nov-13 22:24:23

We're sticking with you, Far.

Hissy Wed 27-Nov-13 22:41:24

Checking in.

You really have come so far. It's sad that you've had to, but you've got Mn on your side, you can't lose!

DinkyFrinkbuster Wed 27-Nov-13 22:41:26

<Hurries in and tries to look useful>

PigWhisperer Wed 27-Nov-13 23:00:58

Just another one to say we are all right behind you love

teenybash7 Wed 27-Nov-13 23:05:50

Just read your last thread. Haven't got anything to say except I think you are amazingly strong. And all your regular helpers are brilliant - just what I hoped mumsnet was all about!
I hope you get your life back soon.

ChasedByBees Wed 27-Nov-13 23:06:48

Checking in Far thanks

Jux Thu 28-Nov-13 00:00:10

Hey there Far! Waving vigorously so I can find you. Hope you sleep well tonight.

43percentburnt Thu 28-Nov-13 01:25:53

You are doing fab.

Lambzig Thu 28-Nov-13 08:12:24

I have been following your thread. You are doing amazingly well.

Yep - still here as well.
You have come a long way and we are all behind you!

Kyyria Thu 28-Nov-13 10:40:03

Still here, supporting and waving pom poms!

FarOverTheRainbow Thu 28-Nov-13 11:24:54

Thank you smile are we moving to this thread or finishing the other?

perfectstorm Thu 28-Nov-13 11:47:00

You're doing great. Keep on keeping on. smile

JiminyCricketsMiddleWicket Thu 28-Nov-13 12:17:44

Re The smoke alarm.
You are quite rightly denying the FIL access to fix a fire alarm, ergo there is a potential for them to raise a case that you were unreasonable and endangered the welfare of your daughter, by not allowing them to address this safety issue.

They play dirty, just don't give them anything that they could potentially use against you.

FarOverTheRainbow Thu 28-Nov-13 12:30:16

That's exactly what I'm worried about Jimmy! They will use anything and everything they can

JiminyCricketsMiddleWicket Thu 28-Nov-13 13:11:55

Don't worry just go to B&Q, get the alarm and put the receipt somewhere safe.
Head the bastards off at the pass and nick their ammo smile

FarOverTheRainbow Thu 28-Nov-13 13:31:58

Will that be enough to cover myself?

Any help with wording this message denying him access and telling him I'm not moving out on my eviction date?

perfectstorm Thu 28-Nov-13 13:41:38

I think asking for legal advice on that is a good idea, tbh. As previously mentioned, even well-intentioned laypeople aren't always best placed to offer advice and you need to ensure the messages are focused on dd's welfare as regards contact, and don't undermine the no contact request either. You've said all contact via solicitors so really you need to make that two way, I think.

I know I keep saying this, but please call Women's Aid again. Ask them for advice and the name of a good solicitor with experience in these situations.

perfectstorm Thu 28-Nov-13 13:42:18

(Not on the smoke alarm - buying your own is definitely enough I would think!)

FarOverTheRainbow Thu 28-Nov-13 13:46:42

It wouldn't be XPid be contacting it would be his dad.

Ill try phone WA again, I can never get hold of them during the day

perfectstorm Thu 28-Nov-13 14:03:42

I don't think you want to enable him to harass you via his family, which he sounds fully capable of. Them even more so! I'd leave it to solicitors alone now, really and truly.

Rights of Women offer a phone advice line for family law issues, maybe they can offer swifter advice for you?

perfectstorm Thu 28-Nov-13 14:06:00

Oh bugger, they're only there in the evenings as well - sorry.

JiminyCricketsMiddleWicket Thu 28-Nov-13 14:06:54

As your Dad has offered to pay for a solicitor, if you don't get any answer from WA today, please give Band Hatton & co. (Coventry) a call and ask about legal aid (if that still exists) or alternatively a without obligation or charge first appointment where you can establish the costs involved.

They're the best kick arse solicitors in this area (except for those in Birmingham) and are absolutely excellent.
It'll get any law firm in Warwick quivering in their boots

FarOverTheRainbow Thu 28-Nov-13 15:34:22

I would die for a glass of wine hmm

ShinyBauble Thu 28-Nov-13 15:34:28

Place marking. What about the local centre WA put you in touch with Far, can you call them in the day time?

ChasedByBees Thu 28-Nov-13 16:36:00

Buying your own fire alarm will definitely be enough. I thought Hissy's text about not allowing him access was good, but it's worth double checking on the legal boards. You always sound so unsure of yourself Far. You don't need to be, you are doin everything right and have your DD's well being at the core of everything you're doing.

JiminyCricketsMiddleWicket Thu 28-Nov-13 16:46:56

Collective Wisdom of the Women of Mumnsnet V One Fuckwit.

One might even start to feel a tad sorry for him, but then again nah.

Hissy Thu 28-Nov-13 17:13:13

YOU as a tenant OR a parent don't need to have a smoke alarm in your property by law. Remember that.

A LANDLORD has a LEGAL OBLIGATION to provide one for the tenancy. It is the responsibility of the tenant to make sure that it's working and batteries are tested.

FOR THEIR OWN SAFETY. No legal action can be taken if you don't replace batteries.

There is nothing to stop you getting your own alarm, but you can't be penalised by courts for any reason whatsoever for not having one.

Think about it! smile

You are so caught up in the FOG (fear, obligation and guilt) that these abusive arseholes have created so that they can try to gain power and control over you that you are losing sight of all reason.

S'ok, happens to us all in abusive relationships, but please, take a step back, take a breath and THINK about what the truth really is and what your boundaries are and STICK to them.

The most important word we learn when coming out of dynamics like this is NO.

You think we are all so clever/sorted etc? only cos we have distance, and have faced this same kind of shit in different guises and come through the other side. You are in the middle of it. When we were in the middle of our situations, we couldn't see further than our hands either.

Hissy Thu 28-Nov-13 17:19:53

Trust me on access, and the text, I double, triple checked with shelter, the police, the CAB, MN legal and Landlord Zone.

Not a living soul can enter your home if you don't want them to. if they try, you can call the police and they WILL be told to leave.

Notice or no notice, no contract has the right to remove your right to quiet enjoyment.


You should never use your keys to enter the property without the tenants' knowledge or permission, other than in cases of genuine emergency.

If the tenant objects to you attending to do inspections or carry out repairs, then you cannot enter the property. This situation is rare, however, and if it occurs, then you should consider whether you should bring proceedings for eviction.

NB - that last bit means LL can only access with a court order

Jux Thu 28-Nov-13 18:10:18

Please don't let them in, Far. I am a LL (we rent out our basement) and it would never occur to me to insist on going in there even though I know our tenant wouldn't mind me letting the gasman in to read the meter etc. I simply wouldn't do it. As for insisting on entry to fit a fire alarm if she said no - no way would I do it.

You have rights. You seem to think you don't. This is a measure of how bullied and scared they have made you.

Remember this at all times: You are in the right. They are not. The law is on your side.

Now, stick up your chin and say NO.

FarOverTheRainbow Thu 28-Nov-13 18:28:25

I love MN. I'm not going to let them in, I've brought my own so I feel abit more protected. Do I text and tell him I refuse him access or do I jus keep the door locked and hide tomorrow?

I am scared yeh because I know that a ton of bricks could hit me at any minute because ice stopped access and I don't want or need anything else coming at me but now I feel confident to refuse but still scared.

I need to tell him I'm not moving out aswell hmm

ChasedByBees Thu 28-Nov-13 18:54:57

Text what Hissy said so they don't try. Would be worth staying in with the door locked anyway. If you text, you have a written record that you've told them no and they don't have your permission. Otherwise they coul claim you didn't object.

FarOverTheRainbow Thu 28-Nov-13 19:13:33

Do I mention that I'm not moving out in this text aswell so I only have to text the once otherwise Sunday will come and ill still be here

perfectstorm Thu 28-Nov-13 19:18:09

You're on completely solid ground with the access to the house. I do think legal advice on wording the contact refusal might be an idea, though. Just to be sure you are very clear it's over welfare concerns for your dd, not anger with the ex. And I still think you need to be careful about saying no contact at all, then sending a text within days yourself.

I'd definitely get a smoke alarm if yours is playing up. Mainly for because you need one, IMO - there's a reason landlords have to fit them. And while you have no issues on the subject as regards landlord and tenant law, they could try to argue you were being unreasonable over your dd's welfare in refusing her that safety check if they want to pretend they have concerns that your anger with them is affecting your judgement over her, so the ability to say you handled it fine without them invading your privacy might be handy, anyway. The two aspects (housing, and child contact) are separate.

Hissy Thu 28-Nov-13 19:28:31

They are thé ones that tied child with ll obligations.

They have used contact at your house to intimidate you as a tenant.

They have used your tenancy to intimidate you into contact.

They are vile, i'd love to see what a court had to say about the treatment you've suffered at their hands.

Not one bit of their tenancy obligations is legit!

jeanmiguelfangio Thu 28-Nov-13 19:42:12

I'm just checking in, completely behind you 100% and anything I can do to help I will try

BatmanLovesIckyBarry Thu 28-Nov-13 19:46:22

I've just read your other thread.

It's incredible how far you have come - at the beginning you were very much paralysed with fear, now you are dealing with many difficult and downright nasty tasks and coming through the other side.

Good work Far, and keep your chin up!

(Sorry I've got no proper advice or anything flowers)

FarOverTheRainbow Thu 28-Nov-13 20:13:59

Thank you, I've phoned WA and waiting for someone to call me back to see if try can help with what to say. I think ill use what HIssy said and then try and add in some way that I've made my own arrangements to ensure mine and DDs welfare and then add on about not moving out. I don't want to text I'd rather jus completely ignore them and stick to no contact but if I do that then things are going to be horrible tomorrow when he's knocking my door and if I phoned the police he can say he had no idea he didn't want me to fit one as I haven't replied to any of his message and he's that concerned about me having a small child in the house he served me with notice so he could make sure she's safe, so I feel I have to to reply

JiminyCricketsMiddleWicket Thu 28-Nov-13 20:56:18

I wouldn't. Keep it to the minimum No access to the house and I'm not moving till xxxxx. End of. Don't mention safety/daughter or anything else. It's none of their business.
I wasn't concerned about the legal aspect of the fire alarm, re the tenancy etc.
I was thinking further down the line vis a vis custody/visitation "She endangered the child by not having a fully functioning fire alarm and unreasonably refused to get it fixed blah blah blah"
If they think about it later and raise it re you as a fit parent; then they're firing blanks. So don't tip them off about ensuring your and your daughters safety.
Far better for them to have egg on their face should the situation arise.

stickysausages Thu 28-Nov-13 21:04:16

Good luck, you're very brave thanks

springytickle Thu 28-Nov-13 23:35:47

re texting. I agree that you have to keep to the agreement with ex re texting and that all communications must go through a lawyer from now on.

The fire alarm thing, though, has been instigated by FIL's texts, so perhaps it's ok to answer to those? Just don't text ex.

Perhaps you could text FIL stating that you have bought replacement smoke detectors and that you do not want him to enter the property tomorrow? At least then it's said.

Do remember that it is better to call Womens Aid overnight eg between 7 at night and 7 in the morning - the lines are constantly engaged during the day, sadly. You do need legal advice as soon as. As suggested by perfectstorm, Rights for Women are recommended by Womens Aid for legal advice, did you give them a call this evening?

Keep going lovely. You're getting there flowers

FarOverTheRainbow Fri 29-Nov-13 07:17:48

I can't get hold of WA and they didn't call me back hmm

I need to tell him that he can't come otherwise he could be here from 8 onwards. I've just tried calling again and left wa my number.

Do I send..

Unfortunately there will be no access at all without my permission. Rights to Quite Enjoyment come before contractual law. If you want to enter my home you will need a court order. I have taken the appropriate measures myself with regards to a fire alarm. I won't be moving out in the 1st but the 4th.

perfectstorm Fri 29-Nov-13 07:32:39

I'd keep it shorter than that. "I don't consent to access, which is my legal right unless you have a court order to the contrary. I will now be vacating on the 4th and not the 1st. I ask that you conduct any further communication via my solicitor." You don't need to give any more info at all. None of their business.

Hissy Fri 29-Nov-13 07:37:45

Sent perfect's text. That's perfect smile

perfectstorm Fri 29-Nov-13 07:42:09

I'd also look at this list of highly rated lawyers in the West Midlands area and call any you think sound good/relatively near asking for a free initial appointment. You need to check out their willingness to work for a publicly funded (legally aided) client.

I think you need to start thinking in terms of a good solicitor taking this forward, and you need to get the money side sorted for that. It's bankruptcy-inducing, a contact dispute that makes it to court, if you don't get a certificate entitling you to state funding (which Women's Aid sound like they think you would qualify for). And good legal advice is absolutely worth its weight in gold.

FarOverTheRainbow Fri 29-Nov-13 07:46:07

Wow just got hold of WA and for the first time ever they weren't helpful hmm the women told me its his house he can come in ad I said surely its my right to has a peaceful life an he said yeh but it's his house of your scared call the police or see a lawyer but its his right to want fire alarms in HIS house and I said I have fire alarms, I've brought my own. She wasnt helpful at all.

Thank you ill send perfects text

FarOverTheRainbow Fri 29-Nov-13 07:50:51

Sent it, I get very brave pressing ad until it said sent and I thought oh shit.

FarOverTheRainbow Fri 29-Nov-13 07:55:59

Thanks perfect ill go through the list this morning. How do I get a certificate for legal aid? Do you get to pick your own solicitor or do you get given one?

I don't know if I should stay in all day now. XP knows I go out in Friday afternoons so they will no the house is empty but not sure if their stupid enough to risk nosing round.

FarOverTheRainbow Fri 29-Nov-13 07:56:01



perfectstorm Fri 29-Nov-13 08:07:25

Women's Aid are experts on domestic abuse which falls under family and criminal laws, not landlord and tenant law which is a complicated area all in its own right. And the reality according to Hissy's links (and a few I just looked for) seems to be that the ex-in-laws can't force entry, so have no remedy other than legal action, though tenants apparently do often have to pay the costs of such action if their refusal is deemed unreasonable. You're moving out in a week (it is December 4th, right? And when they made the request they thought it was the 1st, so less than a week) so hardly likely to fly as a reasonable move on their part - in fact their zeal to have access before they have an empty property is a bit weird, full stop. So don't worry, I don't think the WA advice on that is right. You aren't actually denying access, you're saying they can hold off for the single week left to you in the house!

Hang on in there. This too shall pass - soon, you'll be shot of living in a house with any connection to them at all.

perfectstorm Fri 29-Nov-13 08:17:41

Call Rights of Women today - I think they have longer hours on Friday - and ask them for guidance on claiming legal aid (public funding) on grounds of domestic abuse. I don't know if you would qualify as the threshold is quite stiff but Women's Aid offered you a refuge place, so mention that plus the health visitor's support. See what they say.

You can choose your own solicitor, but they don't all accept legal aid. You need to check that out when talking to them. Make sure you like/trust them, and I would recommend you find a firm who specialise in family law specifically, and child residence/contact disputes as opposed to say matrimonial property settlements (most do all aspects, though). You need to ask for an initial free appointment to discuss your situation, so you can suss them out and they your position. You need to stress the abusive nature of the relationship so they are able to advise you appropriately.

Be aware that most people enter child contact disputes on both sides thinking the court will vindicate them and they will "win". The reality is that it's usually a bruising and painful experience for all concerned and nobody comes out unscathed. It's a last resort option in most situations. But this is all stuff you need to talk over with your solicitor. You need to trust them and they need to be cool-headed and at times saying things you won't like to hear (nature of their job) so honestly do have a look at which you choose, and work out how to manage the funding side.

FarOverTheRainbow Fri 29-Nov-13 08:43:55

I've just had another message from LL saying I will owe 4 days rent, who is my solicitor, what will happen with the keys and what about the alarm.

I'm trying to find all my paper work that I keep together and out somewhere safe but can't bloody find where to check my agreement and then phone womens rights. This is a fucking nightmare. Never a moments peace there's always something wanting to hit me with a big stick angrysad

perfectstorm Fri 29-Nov-13 08:53:25

Don't answer it. It's not your problem and you don't have to jump to their tune, so don't worry about it right now. Just forget the nonsense and get on with your day. You don't want to reply to their text anyway as you already said no further contact that way, and the issues they raise can be very easily sorted.

1) The smoke alarm is their issue as landlords, not yours. You can prove you covered dd from a safety angle, so don't bother to reply - they can sort that out next week when they have access to the house again, and you've left. It is not your problem.

2) You can just pay the extra 4 days into the same account the rest went into. Again, no big deal at all.

3) They already have their own keys to the property, so all you need to do is leave yours on the side somewhere prominent when you move out.

4) When you choose a solicitor, you can get them to write to your ex. He will then have their contact info and can give it to his parents. Just don't let them hassle you anymore. It's over with.

It's not a big deal. You don't have to see them and you have now achieved all you need to from that perspective. Call Rights of Women when they open their lines to chat about the legal aid. But honestly, you've banned him from harassing you, and now the in-laws as well.

I know it's horrible when they contact you, so well done on making it so they can't in future. You don't have to have these people in your life now. Focus on you and your dd, and moving forward.

One thing I would say - if you paid a deposit, and even if you didn't - take a lot of photos of the place when you leave, showing it's really clean and in a good state. That way they can't argue you trashed it or anything of the kind. Always a good idea when vacating a rented property anyway, IMO.

You're doing so well. Don't let them get to you, okay?

perfectstorm Fri 29-Nov-13 08:55:55

Rights of Women are open 12 - 2 today, not the usual evenings. Their number is: 020 7251 6577

Honestly, you've taken another step in getting free of these people. Don't let their prissy response upset you - so not worth it.

JiminyCricketsMiddleWicket Fri 29-Nov-13 09:01:38

There are two issues here which are concerning you at present:
The access by FIL for a repair on the smoke alarm
The contact access arrangements re daughter.

Forget the first one. It's done and dealt with. You've advised FIL he can't have access, and you have advised of a change of move date. End of. He may well have a face that looks like it's been sucking lemons, but in reality there is bugger all that he can do about it in such a short time frame.

The access and maintenance issue is the area that you should now focus on; walk away in your head from the tenancy issue.

Please get a solicitor immediately; you've sat on your hands and alternatively wrung them with worry in this regard. You have nothing to loose apart from time if you go down the free initial consultation route and this; as Perfectstorm and others have said, will give you an opportunity to suss out the quality, and very often you garner a lot of free advise and information in this consultation for free.
Eat your elephant in small chunks. Make the phone calls to three solicitors initially; enquire as to the legal aid status; then attend for a free consultation.... and then you get to the next mouthful/stage.

Solicitors have seen this and similar scenarios time and time again; this is your one and only experience of this situation. Reach out and grab some of that expertise.

perfectstorm Fri 29-Nov-13 09:12:18

Eat your elephant in small chunks.

This! I think you have got in the habit (we all do it) of looking at everything all at once, and then panicking. You don't need to do that, because you don't need to manage it all at once. Just take things one step at a time.

JiminyCricketsMiddleWicket Fri 29-Nov-13 09:35:09

As you know Far; I'm local to you. In my profession I get to see a lot of local solicitors' work and work product in my own profession. Forgive me I don't want to divulge further.
I recommended Band Hatton in Coventry. They're a hop skip and a jump down the by pass and as you have a baby, I've thought about easy access with a small child.
I can say that they would be my first choice; and I can assure you that I am not (unfortunately) in receipt of any referral commission.
With respect, the list referred to above, is dated 2011 and my experience is current.
There is one other firm the other side of Stratford upon Avon that I would rate equally highly; and might be a better match for you as the senior partner is lovely and she has a real heart. But this firm is located on a B unlit and nasty road and as it's now Winter we have to take into account ease of access and untreated roads.

FarOverTheRainbow Fri 29-Nov-13 09:36:28

I've found my tenancy agreement and it was signed on the 16th and says first payment will be made on this date so I will phone the legal aid housing solicitor today and speak to them about it.

I'm going going to text back I'm going to try and ignore. Ill phone advice for women later and ill do whatever I have to do toget legal aid and then after ill phone 3 solictors of that list and hopefully get info on legal aid and some appointments.

It's really hard to look at everything separately when it feels like I'm being beaten at every point but I know I need to make more effort too just for my own sake.

FarOverTheRainbow Fri 29-Nov-13 09:37:57




FarOverTheRainbow Fri 29-Nov-13 09:39:27

Thank you jiminy I will phone them today. I do appreciate the help smile

JiminyCricketsMiddleWicket Fri 29-Nov-13 09:45:50

Forget the tenancy situation. There's nothing they can do (legally) for months. Although I have no legal experience, I know this from the landlords' position. Now walk away from that in your own mind and do not waste time and energy re-visiting this.
Get on the 'phone to solicitors; the solicitor's themselves will say yay or nay to legal aid. Pro-active as opposed to Re-active is your new mantra.

perfectstorm Fri 29-Nov-13 09:55:01

Rainbow if you have a local rec. from someone who has professional dealings with solicitors in your area then that will be a lot better than any guide could hope to be - and I don't know where you live other than Midlands area, so if they're very local to you indeed then that is a huge plus as well. I just googled for Chambers & Partners, as they're usually a good way to get some notion of good lawyers in any given area (though I thought the list is from the current year? I was under the impression they update annually... which may be completely wrong!) but someone who actually has on the ground knowledge can offer much better advice, and tbh it'll probably be a lot cheaper, too. You don't have to pay for work concerning your dd with a public funding cert. but you will anything relating to the tenancy etc., as that isn't covered.

Sorry Jiminy, didn't mean to undermine your advice - missed that a personal rec was made. Was just concerned that all solicitors are not created equal, and a bad one would obviously be a bit of a mare here.

You're doing so well, OP. Look what they wanted to happen - you in a shelter with your daughter, ex stealing all your property from you! You've held on to the property and managed to get on the urgent council housing list, you've forced him to back off, and now the in-laws, too. You're doing great and don't let the fact they can hurt you detract from that reality, okay?

If the rent is paid up to the 16th then they owe you 12 days overpayment, no not you an extra 4? Cheeky ratbags. Not that this is news. hmm

springytickle Fri 29-Nov-13 09:56:09

I live in a valley and every time I go out on my bike, I have to cycle up a big hill. If I look up to the top of the hill and see how far I have to go and how hard it's going to be, I lose heart immediately and get off. If I keep my head down (safely of course!) and just plod up the hill... before I know it I'm at the top.

You've already come so far. Think about it - you've done such a lot! flowers

FarOverTheRainbow Fri 29-Nov-13 10:31:52

XP has sent me a text saying I'm nt allowed to take anything from the house ad he removes all concnt because he has paid for it and if I do he will have me arrested because its a criminal offense and I'm only allowed to take DDs furniture and hell allow me to have my car because its in DDs best interest

Divinity Fri 29-Nov-13 11:14:13

I can't offer legal advice but I'm angry on your behalf. What a dick.

Although I've heard prawns in the curtain poles create a lovely aroma...

Divinity Fri 29-Nov-13 11:17:30

I'm sure the others with legal experience will be along soon to let you know if that's an empty threat or not. Chin up.

waves pompoms

FarOverTheRainbow Fri 29-Nov-13 12:10:38

I've phoned the police and aske advice and they said that having receipts doesn't prove he didn't pay anything towards them but doesn't prove there his so there not interested and won't get involve and f he reports me to then they might phone me for a chat but they'll tell him that there not interested as its s civil matter and he'll have to take me to court

ChasedByBees Fri 29-Nov-13 12:16:42

Take the lot.

FarOverTheRainbow Fri 29-Nov-13 12:20:34

Can I?

perfectstorm Fri 29-Nov-13 12:24:52

Yes, absolutely you can.

I would also point out that he has been told not to contact you except via solicitor. He has now done so. Didn't the police tell you you needed to clearly tell him to leave you alone, and then further contact was harassment?

perfectstorm Fri 29-Nov-13 12:28:06

Please tell me you've called both solicitors Jiminy recommended? You need someone on your side who can handle this idiot for you. He's a git, and you don't need or deserve his rubbish.

FarOverTheRainbow Fri 29-Nov-13 13:29:24

I've phones the solicitor Jiminy recommended and there full to capacity so they've given me another number that they say recommend. I'm sitting here with the home glued to me trying to get hold
Of women's rights but there constantly busy

ShinyBauble Fri 29-Nov-13 13:41:53

Take whatever you will need, whatever you want, and even whatever you think may come in useful one day.

Because the thing is - the child visitation will probably go to court. How will it look if he has tried to take his daughter's Mum to court demanding all the furniture aside from the cot and highchair? His daughter will need more than that for the coming years! He will look petty and spiteful.

Stay close to the house until you move out, because now he knows your moving date I wouldn't put it past him to turn up with a van. You can order deliveries through a supermarket as long as you're spending £40. Or ask your parents to drop food round. But I would guard the stuff for these last few days! If you have to go out, try and arrange for a friend to house sit with instructions to call the police if he turns up.

springytickle Fri 29-Nov-13 14:01:17

How are you going to get the stuff out? you could do a midnight flit

Hope you get a solicitor onto this soon xx

Hissy Fri 29-Nov-13 14:08:09

1. The Section 21 they served you is invalid. They have not served proper notice.

By my reckoning, your last day is 15th (the day before the payment is due) they should have used those dates.

As their section 21 is invalid, you don't need to abide by it.


Text would be: According to Legal Advice the Notice you served was incorrect and therefore invalid. Your options therefore are to reserve notice prior to 16th December for the period of 2 months, my legal due date to leave then on February 16th.

You however are only legally obligated to give 1m notice, from the day before the date of the contractual payment date (i.e. 15th of any given month.) As soon as the 16th hits, the next window for legal notice moves TO THE FOLLOWING MONTH. Notice can be served at anytime before that date, but the notice period can only start FROM that date.

Text would be: Of course if I am able to arrange suitable accommodation, i can give 1m notice which will shorten this notice period. If however I am unable to find suitable accommodation, I will not be giving notice and will need to follow legal procedure to ensure my rights in this regard are not compromised

i.e that you won't leave, they WILL have to take you to court, but only after serving proper,legal notice.

At no point will they be allowed to enter your home without your express permission. Failure to observe this is trespass and will be viewed as harassment. A criminal act.

Hissy Fri 29-Nov-13 14:09:02

2. With regard to the belongings. You paid for them, you take them.

If he can prove ownership in a court of law, he will get them back.


Hissy Fri 29-Nov-13 14:10:03

short version = you can make this all drag out for a MINIMUM of 3 months - possibly 6.

FarOverTheRainbow Fri 29-Nov-13 14:40:10

I'm going to
Hire a van to move and ill stay close to the house and make side someone's there.

The council have phoned to say they've found a match so waiting to see what

perfectstorm Fri 29-Nov-13 14:46:38

Hang on in there, lovely. You're almost there. This is the last stretch! Will x fingers the council place is perfect, and the newly recommended solicitor is a good match. Might also be worth trying the Stratford one Jiminy offered as backup? I know it's further away but you could go with your parents, and a lot of the communication is via email/phone anyway. And Jiminy spoke really highly of the woman you'd be instructing.

JiminyCricketsMiddleWicket Fri 29-Nov-13 15:00:57

Have you 'phoned the solicitors (any firm)
We want to help, but you don't seem to respond.
I kmow it's difficult.I know it's awful. But now you need to get your shit together.

FarOverTheRainbow Fri 29-Nov-13 16:14:34

I've phoned 3 solicitors this afternoon, 1 is getting the last to call me back, another is full and another has said given me a list of what I need to prove domestic violence and have said that if I stay with WA refuge for more then 24 he and they write a letter to sayso then that makes me qualify. There's other stuff they said I could do too like if I have an injunction out or he has a criminal conviction for violence against me.

I got hold of women's rights too and they were really helpful And told me to stick to what we agreed and take that and that I won't get arrested the police will say its a civil matter, they did tell
Me to
Report his new texts to the
Police and say that I have asked him not to contact me but he still is as I would just like this recorded and that if I decided to go for an injunction then this would help. She also said that she thinks I've done the right thig stopping contact and he sounds guilty of neglect and my tenancy agreement sounds like I've paid until 15th. She was really helpful.

I know I bury my head onthe sand but I'm just one of them people who wants to plod along and enjoy a quite and argument free life. It's all I've ever wanted and my life is so opposite that at te minute it's really hard to adjust hmm

I think immgoing to
Move out the day before so I don't have no one coming to drive past and see what's going on at the house.

The council have offered me
Somewhere which isn't ready until
After Christmas but it
Looks nice from outside and it's in a really quite area so that's good

FarOverTheRainbow Fri 29-Nov-13 16:21:11

HIssy I wish I had the guts to refuse to move out until my new place is ready hmm--it would seriously piss them off and not alot they could do about it and I would get satisfaction for once--

FarOverTheRainbow Fri 29-Nov-13 17:32:22

I did call the CAB that womens rights gave me but it said you gave to go down to your local office in the morning

DinkyFrinkbuster Fri 29-Nov-13 18:36:19

Switch onto autopilot and just go through the motions systematically. Write your to do list and plough through it. This stuff is exhausting but you will be bloody pleased you did it. We are here for you to lean on.

And, most importantly, let yourself get a tiny bit excited about starting 2014 in a lovely new home!

springytickle Sat 30-Nov-13 10:06:56

I beg to differ, it sounds to me that you're really getting on with your shit. I think we all want a quiet, argument-free life - not many of us relish conflict! You're being bullied, harassed and intimidated, which makes it difficult to do things. I told you about me being bullied at work last week - I froze. But you're doing them, you're doing a lot from what I can see which is more than I did last week smile

This is all new for you, you've never done it before, you're learning a whole bank of new skills. You're doing well imo flowers

FarOverTheRainbow Sat 30-Nov-13 11:56:36

Thank you smile today me and my mum are packing up the house and start moving things to storage

Jux Sat 30-Nov-13 13:52:30

Excellent. The more you get out now, the less you have to worry.

Springy is absolutely right. You are Action Woman right now! grin

perfectstorm Sat 30-Nov-13 15:17:05

Brilliant, he can't steal what isn't there! And the cheek of the bastard, trying to get his grabby hands on all the family possessions and telling you not allowing him whatever the hell he wants from possessions you bought and have receipts for is YOU stealing from him. I hope you're keeping all these texts. They'll be handy in the contact proceedings - such concern for his daughter's welfare, wanting her to live in an unfurnished house so he can get a free ride. hmm

Hope you have a peaceful and constructive weekend with your lovely parents and gorgeous DD, and the new house is all you're hoping for. And I hope you're working out how to prove harassment in order to be entitled to legal aid, too - it honestly is so essential in terms of moving forward with protecting dd.

FarOverTheRainbow Sat 30-Nov-13 16:12:40

He really can't have thought how it will look that he wants me to walk away with a cot and wardrobe and that's it.

I've phoned the police and reported the texts and I have the number from WA to get an injunction but don't know if the messages I've got will make it stand?

Wow I didn't realise how much stuff there is to pack think I'm going to need more boxes

perfectstorm Sat 30-Nov-13 16:28:46

Have you told the police about the knife incident, and refusing to return dd unless you gave him the electrical equipment, too? Those are fairly appalling and would perhaps very much strengthen the argument that he needs to be kept away from you. The messages are nasty, but not threatening in the same way as those incidents, perhaps.

I hope you can get that solicitor's initial appointment to discuss all this, as if they can get you a non-molestation order they can also get you legal aid.

FarOverTheRainbow Sat 30-Nov-13 17:21:44

I've mentioned the TV but not the knife. The solicitor said I need the letter before I can get legal aid from them hmm

springytickle Sat 30-Nov-13 18:09:30

I should've thought his aggressive actions confirm that his messages are serious, perhaps? ie his actions show that he is clearly prepared to carry out the things he threatens in his messages, and he's proved that. So the actions and the messages go hand in hand, the messages carry more weight because of his actions.

Well done for cracking on girl. You are so blessed to have a supportive family btw!

perfectstorm Sat 30-Nov-13 18:38:33

I think the knife incident is the scariest, tbh. I would definitely mention that to the police in exactly the same terms you did here - that he wasn't overtly threatening you, but was waving it about in your general vicinity in a small room while being intensely angry with you (that's right, yes?) and that it scared you.

I absolutely appreciate that they can't work for you on a legal aid basis until you have legal aid, but an injunction would be one way you could get it. I don't know if you would qualify for that as yet, though - which is why telling the police everything is so important.

FarOverTheRainbow Sat 30-Nov-13 19:41:15

Can I report hat because it happened weeks ago?

I know I'm really lucky to have good family and friends around me. They've been amazing!

FarOverTheRainbow Sat 30-Nov-13 19:41:18

Can I report hat because it happened weeks ago?


FarOverTheRainbow Sat 30-Nov-13 19:50:27

It does feel weird starting to see the house so empty and I come across loads of old photos which was sad so I just bagged them and I've left them for him, I doubt he'll deal with them just let his mummy pin them on a dart board to throw at me

perfectstorm Sat 30-Nov-13 20:29:03

Of course you can, it's not uncommon for abuse victims to report later, and you've had such a number done on you you aren't always sure how awful his behaviour has been at the time he's doing it, are you. And (though don't show it now! No need to give him a link to the support you get here) if he tried to argue later, you have date/time stamped posts on Mumsnet you posted at the time as backup.

You might want to think about posting on a hidden board here on MN, in all honesty - possibly even print these threads off and then ask MN to delete. The site is such a famous one, and if say his sister read these she would know it was you, I imagine.

The threads where you first expressed concern over MIL's treatment of your dd might also be helpful. Proves you aren't a bitter ex inventing concerns you didn't feel at the time.

FarOverTheRainbow Sun 01-Dec-13 02:28:31

Please tell me I'm not acting over the top in all of this? Just had a text from XP and he's drunk. He's not being aggressive or nasty just pleading to see DD asking me how can I do this to him and DD and put them both through this. That all he's ever done is make me happy and given me anything I want bullshit he really didn't think I would do this even though his parents told him I would. He cries r dry day because he misses his little girl and can't see her grow up and will I rethink what I'm doing

I feel so fucking guilt.8 feel sorry for him because I know not see'ing DD would kill me. How can he still make me feel do bad? I thought do much about that decision I didn't make it lightly but now I think was I right hmm

TensionWheelsCoolHeels Sun 01-Dec-13 02:46:45

Far, you've already asked him to stop contacting you. Drunk or not, he's continuing to cross that line, disregard your boundaries and put responsibility for his choices onto you in your response to how he's behaved, instead of looking at himself. Don't reply, switch your phone off, and if he continues to text, call the police in the morning to get this harassment nipped in the bud.

You haven't caused him to treat you badly, you aren't responsible for the choices he makes, and all through your situation, your ex has had numerous chances to make different choices that would not have this outcome. He is a grown man, he's not incapable of making his own decisions, and he chose to behave and treat you that way. He will see your DD, you know that will happen, but while your feelings and your DD's welfare are being disregarded, he will have to deal with that wait until things can be settled between you.

Ignore him, go to sleep and deal with it (phone the police) in the morning.

tripper20 Sun 01-Dec-13 02:47:02

He's following the script. Read back through your threads to remind yourself of what he (and his toxic family) have put you through. Stay strong for yourself and your little girl. You've come such a long way in a short space of time.

perfectstorm Sun 01-Dec-13 04:19:59

You've told him not to contact you and he's drunk texting you in the middle of the night, whining that you aren't jumping to his tune. After aggressively texting you. After all the rest.

Reread this thread and the other, as suggested - then tell me that his dd is all he cares about, boo hoo. Remember how little he showed interest in her when with you, how little he knew of her routines and needs or met them when told after he left, and how he was handing her off to his mother, anyway. He wanted you out, penniless and leaving him with all shared possessions, sod your dd being in a homeless shelter - he has attacked and belittled and threatened you at every turn. HE created this situation, HE chose to neglect his own child, and he is now whining when sentimental and drunk - and harassing you while doing so - because his own choices have consequences.

He's an arsehole. Report this new bs and honestly, call WA about a refuge spot (remember that offer from them will ensure your legal aid is forthcoming, which will help you protect your dd - WA don't offer such things without reason and they will also offer a package of emotional and practical support moving onwards) or stay with your parents until official vacate date, though that does mean he knows where you are. I doubt he's going to be less reactive, now you're outside their control.

I would also get a new SIM card or speak to your contract provider about changing numbers, due to harassment. You said contact via solicitor now - he does not need your number.

springytickle Sun 01-Dec-13 09:01:43

If he behaved properly when he had her and didn't neglect her, not carrying out basic care; if his family, esp mother, weren't psychos who, I gather, you have had grave concerns about, then of course he could see his daughter. He has been dominating and controlling you, using your daughter - so he loses the right to see her. You are doing the right thing.

Anniegetyourgun Sun 01-Dec-13 09:29:05

What he's doing there is called emotional blackmail. The threats and harassment didn't work so now he's pressing a different button. His default behaviour is bullying; the crying and begging came afterwards. This is not a man you can possibly have a happy ever after with, however much he claims to have learned his lesson. Those are just words.

He may be able to have access to his DD, supervised by someone you can trust, in the future - if, in your judgement, it will be safe - but right now you need to protect her and yourself while you get things sorted out. She is a human being, not a stick to beat you with, and until he realises that he won't be a good person to have charge of her.

Jux Sun 01-Dec-13 12:22:42

First the bullying.
Then the crying.
Then the flowers.
Then the bullying.
Then the crying.
Then the flowers.

It's a never-ending cycle, until you put a stop to it.

Get a new sim; most providers these days don't have a problem sending you a new one so you could just phone them up, explain and ask for a new one, or you could pick up a payg at the supermarket.

He is a nutjob. You are doing the right thing. Don't get sucked back in. His behaviour over the next few weeks will tell you what he's really like (again) if you really need to be reminded. Dishonest and deceitful, underhand, sly, unreliable, unreasonable, ..... The list goes on. Reread your threads.

You are protecting your daughter.

teenybash7 Sun 01-Dec-13 12:24:19

Far, you are getting such good advice on here that I don't have anything useful to add. All I want to say to you is don't waver now. You have done the MOST difficult bit - making the initial decision to go along with his desire to split - and no matter how bad it's been, or will get, you have done it!

Congratulations, you are a brave and strong woman and your daughter is lucky to have you. Just keep going. As long as it takes.

FarOverTheRainbow Sun 01-Dec-13 12:57:57

I'm not going to change my decision because I do believe I made it for the right reasons and I didn't make it over night and I made it because of his behavior with DD first and then his behavior of me and nothing's changed. He says he's fair, how is leaving DD is wee and shit fair? How is palming her off on his incapable mother fair? How is not feeding her properly fair? Bringing her back late? Making me give him then TV before he gives me back? How's any of that fair then that's not to mention he hast paid a penny for her or telling me I'm not allowed nothing from the house or bringing his mother to drop offs?

None of that's changed and he has a cheek to say I know deep down he's a good person. I do feel guilty and I know it would break my heart but I don't deserve not to see her, I do everything for her and care for her properly ad if he did the same and stuck to the agreement we had then we wouldn't be in this situation

Hissy Sun 01-Dec-13 13:09:37

How yawningly predictable.

He's harassing you, but in a different form.

He's not getting you to react to him by bullying, threatening and forcing you, so he'll use this.

He has never treated you well, only hoovered you in. He's failed to protect you against his hideous parents, he's consorted with them to scare and intimidate you.

He's violated every relationship norm, they've violated every landlord/tenant law, and you've come through it all.

So he has to change tactic.

Call women's aid, and perhaps call Respect. (it's a perpetrators helpline, but the numbers - strangely enough - are never engaged) they know tactics of perps, they help advise you on what can be done in the face of their fuckwittery.

Hissy Sun 01-Dec-13 13:12:40

Oh make no mistake love, he's NOT a good person, not deep down, not in his dna, not superficially.

He's telling youthat he is, in the vain hope that you'll believe it. Perhaps he'll believe it himself if he says it enough.

Set your jaw solid, set your path firmly and don't give a millimeter. Ever.

People like him and his ilk constantly search for the chink of a chance to get you.

Ledkr Sun 01-Dec-13 13:19:05

Hi far I was wondering how you are? Nice to hear you doing ok.

FarOverTheRainbow Sun 01-Dec-13 13:19:10

Even in his text he has to mention his mum and how his parents told him I would do this but he didn't believe I would put him and DD through it. What about what you've fucking out us through? Has this been a walk in the park for us? All the shit about the house kicking us out, wanting me to take nothing and threatening to get
Arrest how is that good for DD?

It hasn't been 2 weeks since he hasn't seen her and he went on holiday and j bet he didn't cry every day then. I wouldn't be surprised if he didn't remember texting me this morning.

I'm wondering when the texts will start about not having his baby girl on Christmas and his its breaking his heart will start

Hissy Sun 01-Dec-13 13:33:56

Remember HE chose to do all this. He did.

He's a vile excuse for an human being and limiting exposure to your dd is the best thing you can do for the rest of your life.

perfectstorm Sun 01-Dec-13 13:39:11

Please sort out a new SIM or a new phone number. Please. And have you reported both new texts - within DAYS of telling him solicitor contact only - to the police? You're already anticipating new texts, when if you sort these aspects out there won't be any.

What scares me is this is classic Hoover Manuoevre territory and he's suddenly reminding you of the person you once thought you knew, together with pressing your buttons over his parents dislike of you to try to motivate you to prove them wrong. It's so obvious as an outsider, how manipulative and self-centred his actions are. But I'm concerned that he has hurt you so much, you want to believe it's "the real him". That would be the man who pays not one penny to support his "beloved" dd, but swans off on holiday with the other woman instead.

I agree you need support and help to truly keep this arsewipe at arm's length. And I think you need to call the local refuge number you were given and take them up on the offer to go in. You need that legal aid, you need that emotional and legal support and you need to know you are insulated from him. I would clear the house and go somewhere you can gather your breath and think what to do next - and the side-effect of that is also that you are automatically eligible for legal aid, so you can protect yourself and your baby moving forward.

Hissy Sun 01-Dec-13 13:46:08

A holiday he forced the op to sign over btw...

He's worse than shit.

ShinyBauble Sun 01-Dec-13 15:14:16

I did think it was strange he hadn't moved on to the wheedling and cajoling stage yet.

Well done Far, he knows he can't threaten you effectively anymore, so now he has moved on to whinging!

DinkyFrinkbuster Sun 01-Dec-13 17:15:48

What perfectstorm said - every word. Spot on.

FarOverTheRainbow Sun 01-Dec-13 18:53:34

I did post earlier but for
Some reason I don't know where it's gone

I haven't phoned the police over the drunk text yet but only because I've had a sickness bug but i will
Phone them tomorrow and mention what happened with the knife and ask f I have enough to get an injunction

I'm going to ask about a refuge wednesday, I have my appointment that day and I've told them ill be out by then so I know he'll be driving past my mums to see if I'm there and when I'm not he'll be desperate to find out where I am

The police have told me if I update the software on my phone I can block him so tomrrow when I'm better I'm going to make space on my phone and update it and block him. I'm due a phone upgrade my phone at the Ed of the month but I would ideally like to get a new phone and number and just leave him with my old
One so when things te sorted with DD that's the only number he will have to contact me and I can
Control when I see whatever messages by turning my phone on and off

stickysausages Sun 01-Dec-13 20:52:05


FarOverTheRainbow Mon 02-Dec-13 10:28:51

Feeling a little better today but its still a nightmare
Moving things. DD seems to have a wild time which isn't great for me.

ShinyBauble Mon 02-Dec-13 16:06:04

The worst will be over soon. Keep going! smile

FarOverTheRainbow Mon 02-Dec-13 19:57:11

Wow I phoned the police to report more texting and they said that it doesn't count as harassment excuse its very very minor and he's not threatening to hurt me or get me so it doesn't warrant an officers time. She said because we have a little girl together were always going to have to have some sort of communication because of her and she needs her mum and dad and I explained that I've tried to hard to make it that way, I took him shouting at me at drop offs and put up with it to make sure she could see her dad but when e sends her back covered in mess there has to be a cut off and while this is all going through the court and I've told him do not contact me there's no reason why he should but she said it doesn't really count hmm

I'm pissed off annoyed

Still got packing to do, I've got a an tomorrow so hoping to get most of it moved out then

Hissy Mon 02-Dec-13 20:14:54

Call back and say that you want to report harassment, that you are not going to be told you are making a fuss over nothing and perhaps they ought to check their abuse guidance.

You need to make a report. Don't let them fob you off.

Tell the police that you have been threatened by him and that having a child means that you need more protection from them not less.

Ask to speak to a superior officer if you are not taken seriously.

Can WA help you in this?

FarOverTheRainbow Mon 02-Dec-13 20:21:56

Just as I hung up from them he texted again shock asking how DD is and can I please text him my solicitor details. Is he trying to make me look like IBU by not texting him back? How can he say "noted" then text me 5 times! Will he say that I'm being bad by not letting him know how DD is?

I've tried calling WA and left a message for them to call me back

ShinyBauble Mon 02-Dec-13 20:33:14

I've never been in this situation, does he NEED her solicitor's details? Surely his solicitor can make contact with her directly?

I can only assume that he hasn't acquired a solicitor yet, or he is acting on his sister's advice, who probably doesn't know what she is talking about.

I would continue to ignore, Far. He's clearly not motivated enough to get the ball rolling by himself. If he is not going to proceed until he has an answer from you, he'll be waiting quite a while!

FarOverTheRainbow Mon 02-Dec-13 21:03:02

He knows my mums address and knows any mail that goes there will 100% get to me so there's no reason why he hasn't gone and done that unless his sister is acting on his behalf and they just want to send it directly to my solicitor and keep me out the loop? Not sure. I'm sick of the confusion. I'm sick of waiting to see what comes in the post everyday. I've asked him to leave me alone and apparently he understands that so why can't he listen?

ShinyBauble Mon 02-Dec-13 21:11:08

No, your solicitor would share all correspondence with you.

I'm surprised that his legal genius sister hasn't advised him to crack on with all this. Perhaps they want to know who you have hired, before they hire someone? Just keep doing what you're doing, don't tell him anything.

perfectstorm Mon 02-Dec-13 21:13:36

Talk to Women's Aid/Rights of Women, and also call your mobile phone provider and explain you're being harassed by an ex and his family constantly and would like a new number. See what they can offer you. If they aren't helpful, get a new provider if you can leave the current one.

If he hasn't got the number, he can't get in touch except via letter.

perfectstorm Mon 02-Dec-13 21:16:07

Yeah, on the solicitor sharing correspondence point, they don't just tend to, they have to. A friend has an excellent solicitor she trusts implicitly, so she asked not to see most of the wanker ex's bollocks and lies. She was told, very sympathetically, that the solicitor has no choice - it wouldn't be ethical not to keep a client fully apprised of everything. Nor does he need a solicitor's info to start contact proceedings.

He's just looking for excuses to harass you. Plain and simple.

FarOverTheRainbow Mon 02-Dec-13 22:14:24

I've left a message with WA. I can't understand why he's still texting me, surely they've worked out this goes towards harassment? Ill be glad to talk to the local WA type place Wednesday.

This is the first time he's ever just texted asking how DD is. He's never bothered before, not when she's been ill, not when he went on holiday. Why does he suddenly care? Is this ment to prove he's a doting dad? It was only a few days ago he was sending nasty texts and now he's flipped the coin

Hissy Mon 02-Dec-13 22:18:44

Watch and learn love.

This is what they all do. He's using every trick in the book.

Don't fall for it. It's all contrived.

FarOverTheRainbow Mon 02-Dec-13 22:23:15

The coin will soon clip back when he realises I haven't danced to his tune and walked away with nothing like he wants. That's one reaction I'm not looking forward to hmm

perfectstorm Tue 03-Dec-13 06:46:20

You don't need to worry about his reaction if you sort the phone out and he doesn't have any way to bully you. Honestly, you need to cut that communication route.

Hope local WA are helpful, and soon. Hang on in there - almost free of it. xx

FarOverTheRainbow Tue 03-Dec-13 07:13:18

WA were helpful said that the police were wrong to give me that advice ad that's something I could make a complaint to them about. They said that I don't had to take it and even when access is as stablished by the courts I still don't have to accept contact with him and it is reasonable to go completely through a contact centre.

Wow today is the main moveday. Still unsure if I should take certain things. Still feel like I've got loads left to pack. It's going to be one busy busy day wish me luck smile

Hissy Tue 03-Dec-13 07:24:30

He knows you're moving today yes? If he shows up, if his parents show up, shut the door and call the police.

FarOverTheRainbow Tue 03-Dec-13 08:17:03

He thinks I'm
Moving tomorrow so trying to get it all done today and tomorrow can just give the place a quick clean

Hissy Tue 03-Dec-13 08:26:16

Ah true, got me dates mixed up!

Divinity Tue 03-Dec-13 08:27:35

Take what you want Far, you can always give it back later if you want to but you know you'll never get anything else once you move.

Remember to check the attic, shed and garage too.

Best if luck today. Hope it goes smoothly for you.

springyticktack Tue 03-Dec-13 08:42:44

That policewoman is talking out of her arse. Are you moving into a refuge btw? You'll get support there, not least to make a complaint about what this policewoman said.

Good luck today. Ignore, ignore, ignore him and his texts. Radio silence, ok? He's only thrashing around, trying every trick. His legal-whizz ( hmm ) sister probably put him up to asking about dd.

passedgo Tue 03-Dec-13 08:55:38

I would let him deal with your solicitor - but perhaps tell him 'my solicitor will contact you'. Give your solicitor his details and ask them for advice. It might be good if he does contact your solicitor as any conversation will be on the record.

This would also feed him a line to keep him quiet for a while. If you go completely cold turkey in that respect his reaction, whether rightly or wrongly, will be panic and fury - perhaps your solicitor will be best person to deal with that (and making notes).

passedgo Tue 03-Dec-13 08:56:30

And good luck for today, get it done now, asap, and get off mumsnet!


perfectstorm Tue 03-Dec-13 09:43:48

No need to tell him anything at all. When you have a solicitor, s/he can write to him stating that s/he is representing Far and all communication is to go via that route.

If she responds in any way she undermines the no contact statement, and thus her right to formally complain about his ignoring it.

Good luck for today, Far, and take whatever you need and was bought when you were together. He hasn't a leg to stand on there other than via civil courts, and even then you have the receipts and it will all add to the evidence he's controlling and abusive.

Honestly, I hope you're going into a refuge. You could do with the support moving onwards, he won't be able to hassle you there, and you can then access the legal aid you need to protect yourself and dd moving forward.

BlueGoddess Tue 03-Dec-13 10:39:56

He's probably asking for your solicitor details as he doesn't believe you have the balls to get one. I think telling him that your solicitor will contact him in due course will buy you a bit more time while you are moving.

Good luck for today.

ShinyBauble Tue 03-Dec-13 11:00:06

No offense BG, but she shouldn't tell him that. It puts the pressure back on her - cue aggressive calls from his family about why they haven't heard anything yet. The onus is on him to take action. If he wants to sit with his thumb up his arse waiting for Far to do everything, let him wait.

Leave early tomorrow if you can Far, just leave the keys on the inside doormat, you don't need to tell them you've gone. Hopefully you can avoid seeing any of them. Remember to take a few pics too, to prove the place was left in good condition. Though I doubt they would try to take you to court, I still believe they would want to avoid legalities.

(If you know their lender, consider making an anonymous report when he moves in. It's illegal for a relative to be the tenant in a buy to let mortgaged property.)

stickysausages Tue 03-Dec-13 12:23:11

I agree it sounds suss that the tenancy was in your name, like they're fiddling something.

Good luck today, you're kicking ass grin

FarOverTheRainbow Tue 03-Dec-13 13:10:51

This is bloody stressful hmm

TinTinsSexySister Tue 03-Dec-13 13:16:53

Just the move, or has something else happened?

I'm de-lurking but not sure I'll be much help! I will try smile

Hissy Tue 03-Dec-13 13:18:19

yes it is. Moving IS stressful. Situations like this are stressful. Wrap it all up together and yes, you are stressed.

Understand that this is normal, part and parcel of moving/ending things and being involved with a twat. Understand this and accept it, know that you will get through it and you are growing in strength every day.

Keep going. Remember the prize - the look on his face when he realises you have taken every stick of your belongings. The faster you pack and move, the sooner that time will come.

You won't see it, but you will know it.

Get your new phone line sorted in good time for that btw. You need to switch your number off for a while so you wont have him hassling you.

If any reply needs sending it's 'I remind you NOT to contact me'

perfectstorm Tue 03-Dec-13 13:58:26

Honestly, don't respond. You've told him no contact and any response just feeds his harassment, plus dilutes your case that it is harassment as you are then engaging with the conversation.

Moving is so stressful, I know. Soon be over though and you'll be able to breathe a sigh of relief somewhere safe. Hang on in there, lovely. This is the last bit of connection before you can start to build your fab new independent existence for yourself and your daughter.

Divinity Tue 03-Dec-13 13:58:35

Concentrate on your move today Far. It's completely normal to be stressed on moving day. Put the other stuff aside for later. Take what you want as there's not going to be another chance. You can always give things you find you don't need back but there's zero chance of him giving you anything you left.

perfectstorm Tue 03-Dec-13 14:00:15

What Divinity said.

FarOverTheRainbow Tue 03-Dec-13 17:04:45

XP has been driving past the house just as we were takin more stuff. Oh shit

Hissy Tue 03-Dec-13 17:20:58

call the police if you need to. that's more harassment.

FarOverTheRainbow Tue 03-Dec-13 17:37:27

My fried has just called and said he's tried to get into the house and climbed round the back and is now parked on the drive waiting for me so I've called the police waiting for them to
Me back

crabbyoldbat Tue 03-Dec-13 17:43:44

Make sure that the police know that he's not on the tenancy agreement (and therefore has no right to be in the house)

Good luck - you've done the right thing

Jux Tue 03-Dec-13 18:20:12

Oh dear, what a twat. Hope the cops are helpful.

Ledkr Tue 03-Dec-13 18:28:09

God this guy never fuckkng gives up does he?
Makes my ex look like father of the year and that's saying something!
Hope you are ok x

custardo Tue 03-Dec-13 18:32:55

crikey, this must be so stressful for you thanks

perfectstorm Tue 03-Dec-13 18:36:40

Yep. Not on tenancy agreement, no right to be there, harassing you after you have told him no contact at all except via solicitors and now on your driveway.

On the plus side, I would imagine the chances of a non-molestation order, which immediately triggers legal aid, just improved enormously. Sadly, that is because because you need one.

You have receipts, and he is a nasty piece of work who is trying to bully you into allowing him to steal... and from his own daughter, as well as you. I hope he gets what is coming to him, and sooner rather than later.

How are you doing, lovely?

FarOverTheRainbow Tue 03-Dec-13 18:49:16

Haven't read replies but quick update. He told police he's staying outside until I move out and recording what I take ad the police said he's allowed to do it as its a public place and that they can't stop him. They've advised me to leave everything that I've got left to talk and just file an immediate claim to civil claims court but they can't stop me taking every last thing if I wanted because its civil.

He did say that his dad has proof all the white goods are part of the tenancy agreement and if I take any it will e theft and I said I have recipts to proce I've brought them an its a lie so they said keep the recipes because they will report me.

They escorted me in with DD to make sure he couldn't come near either of us and he's parked outside my house directly and looks set for the night

TimidLivid Tue 03-Dec-13 18:56:12

what a nightmare have you got a lot still to take?

passedgo Tue 03-Dec-13 18:59:25

Can you leave tonight - do you really need the hassle of carting white goods around? Don't most rentals have them anyway?

perfectstorm Tue 03-Dec-13 18:59:57

It is a nightmare, but at the same time his lies and efforts to steal from you (trying to force you to leave white goods you have receipts for via lies to police is stealing, frankly) will support that non-molestation order, too. As will his harassment of you by staying outside the house like this. He is such an evil little shit, thank God you're free of him.

Have you called Women's Aid to update and ask for help? At this point I honestly, honestly think a refuge might be the right place for you - and they will in all likelihood come and pick you up, from what people here have posted.

You do have a friend staying with you overnight, right?

Hissy Tue 03-Dec-13 19:00:37

Awfully cold out tonight... he won't last an hour!

Take what you want, it's yours. Call the police and report his stalking, harassment and abuse of you.

Tell them he's frightening you and has been warned to leave you alone.

Your police service is shit tbh! I had more response for less than this!

ChasedByBees Tue 03-Dec-13 19:00:49

His nice guy act didn't last long did it? It all comes down to the stuff with him doesn't it? Do you have any family/friends that could help you move your stuff out? Preferably take-no-prisoner friends?

If you leave without the stuff, you'll never get it back. Let him record what you're taking though - if he lays one finger on you then get the police back.

Please report his family to their lenders for breaking their mortgage agreement and report him for beefit fraud at the same time. He's a shit.

perfectstorm Tue 03-Dec-13 19:01:37

Passedgo council houses, which OP is in line for and very much wants, don't have them in situ as far as I am aware, no, so she would have to buy them. And why should she just meekly allow this fucker to steal from her, either, by bullying and lying and harassing? That stuff is worth hundreds minimum, thousands possibly all added up, which is why he's willing to do this. I think he's done enough already!

perfectstorm Tue 03-Dec-13 19:04:13

Agree with Hissy that your police are shocking. Which is why I think you need to call Women's Aid again and leave a message stressing he's outside your house, stalking and harassing you, the police will do nothing as "it's a public place" and you need help as soon as possible.

Please remember that horrible as this all is, it will also trigger legal aid, and going forwards, that will protect you more than anything else, because you will be able to afford really good legal advice to force the shit to back off and not use your child as a pawn as he has so far.

Maryz Tue 03-Dec-13 19:05:18

I hope it's really cold.

And the heater in his car doesn't work.

And a massive pigeon shits on him.

I've just read this entire thread, and am rooting for you flowerscake[gin][valium]

FarOverTheRainbow Tue 03-Dec-13 19:06:04

I'm a mess. Why can't he just leave me alone?

My mum and male cousin are staying with me tonight. And a friend is going to help the last bits tomorrow. There's only a couple of big things left and then a lot of boxes but I've had to leave the van else where tonight otherwise I'm sure something would happen to it in the dead of the night while he's watching.

I'm going to phone WA I just need to calm down first.

How they can say they own all the white goods is beyond me, I have he receipts and the tumble dryer was paid on my card so good luck with that!

Tbh I think I need a refuge now too hmm when he gets in this house it's only going to get so so so much worse when he sees I've gone against him and took stuff. I am scared of what will happen.

FarOverTheRainbow Tue 03-Dec-13 19:06:06

I'm a mess. Why can't he just leave me alone?





DinkyFrinkbuster Tue 03-Dec-13 19:06:48

You have a man who scares you sitting outside your house in his car. Call WA before you do anything else.

DinkyFrinkbuster Tue 03-Dec-13 19:09:07

We cross-posted - good that you're not on your own.

I too hope he gets frostbite and bits fall off grin

perfectstorm Tue 03-Dec-13 19:12:01

He can't leave you alone because he is an abuser. He wouldn't leave anyone alone - you're just unlucky enough to be his current victim, but you are doing everything right to get rid of him.

I agree you need a refuge stay. He's escalating fast and they can offer you a sanctuary and support while you catch your breath and regroup and make plans. And the idiot is, though I appreciate you aren't feeling it right now, making your life easier because honestly, legal aid isn't easy to get right now, and this level of harassment and abuse is helpfully glaring and strident. Without legal aid, you'd have a struggle in terms of child contact and forcing him to go no-contact when visits eventually resume between him and dd. His behaving like this would certainly justify this, and there are so many witnesses and his lies and abuse is so obvious and unashamed. That has to help you in terms of obtaining future protection.

Have a nice cuppa and a hug with your Mum, and then call WA. You'll be fine - you are so close now to being rid of him.

myroomisatip Tue 03-Dec-13 19:18:02

I dont have anything to add apart from ((hugs))

Please do not let him intimidate you.

If things kick off keep your phone handy and have it set to 'record' and remember that if they do kick off that will be in your favour.

Take care.

Hissy Tue 03-Dec-13 19:37:05

Please call WA, and ask them to help you call police DV team etc.

ShinyBauble Tue 03-Dec-13 20:26:58

This is another own goal for him. It is officially on record that the police had to escort you AND his baby daughter safely past him, and his concern is not to see her, it's about material possessions.

Let him sit out there - crank up the heating and order pizza!

And keep an eye out, because it's very cold now and you might find that he's buggered off by 3am - in which case grab the van, get everything out and leave first thing. (And if you get the impression he's following you, make sure you've lost him before you get to the storage place/new place.) It's so shameful he's putting you through all this.

ShinyBauble Tue 03-Dec-13 20:30:47

And I cannot believe the police advised you to leave your furniture behind so as not to aggravate him! They need to take a course in understanding what victim blaming is.

If he is still there in the morning, ask them to come out while you remove the last of the furniture. But only leave it if you are in physical danger. And as ChasedByBees said, you'll never get the stuff back if you leave it.

FarOverTheRainbow Tue 03-Dec-13 20:48:57

He seems to have disappeared but I don't think it will be for long myself.

I spoke to WA and they've given me the 24hr number for the national domestic line to phone and see if I can get a non malestation order against him. They said it is abuse and how the police can't see that isn't good on there part. She did ask if it was worth gettig the last of the stuff and just leaving now for mine and DD safety and my metal state but said that decision is 100% mine and she's not influencing me either way. She also spoke a refuge and said to remember its an option and to have a look online and if I want to chat any more then call them back.

So I've kept DD busy ad sorted some more boxes and ill put her to bed and then phone the national line and see what they say ad then pack some more. I'm going to get the van really early so hopefully will be out early afternoon

FarOverTheRainbow Tue 03-Dec-13 20:49:03




perfectstorm Tue 03-Dec-13 21:12:24

Good that WA are on the ball. Absolutely appalled by your local police - really shocking failures on their part over this.

I hope the 24 hour helpline are able to sort something so you can feel a little less besieged by this utter waste of oxygen. What a situation to put his own daughter in, apart from anything else.

Glad you're being strong and have family with you, and hope this time tomorrow you feel a new woman. xxx

HansieMom Tue 03-Dec-13 21:55:15

If he comes back, I think you should order pizza just to piss him off.

Jux Tue 03-Dec-13 22:09:55

Yes, definitely order pizza, leave the boxes for him.

Take photos of the place before you finally leave so you have proof of how it was, so he can't, eg, lob a brick through a window and blame you.

You must be exhausted by now. This chapter is so nearly over, and the start of the next is just round the corner.

Could your cousin go and get the van while TwatFace is not there (now?) so that you can fill it up tonight with the last of the big things and your cousin can take them to wherever you're storing them tonight. Then you can do the last of the boxes tomorrow as planned.

FarOverTheRainbow Tue 03-Dec-13 22:20:56

Exhausted isn't the word. I'm fed up of moving and I'm pissed off with this whole situation. I'm not a bad person but I feel like I'm being constantly punished. It's dragging on so much I feel just worn out.

He doesn't drive I'm afraid hmm I've got someone to pick me up tomorrow and were just sorting things into boxes and piles for where its to go so first thing we can literally throw it in the van and go a couple of times and it hopefully will be done then I'm going to Hoover and wipe everything down and take photos.

I've found the last of the receipts I need too so everything I've taken I can prove is mine. found the receipt for the pissing ipad I brought him too

ShinyBauble Tue 03-Dec-13 23:49:50

Right, if you have receipts - definitely take everything. I'm sorry you've been let down by people who should know better telling you to hand over your possessions to pacify this horrible person.

Just think, if he causes any drama tomorrow, the silver lining is that you should be able to secure legal aid. But hopefully it will all go smoothly smile

Divinity Wed 04-Dec-13 06:52:07

Best of luck today Far. Nearly there with the move. Keep phoning the police and WA. Is there any other help you can get to shift the last of the stuff quickly?

Keep going, try not to let him get to you and keep phoning WA and the police. thanks

Divinity Wed 04-Dec-13 06:56:27

Once you get your stuff in your new home please go to a refuge even if for a few nights only. This will mean you have support and witnesses to whatever harassing rubbish he starts. It will also mean you get legal aid from what others have said.

Divinity Wed 04-Dec-13 07:03:21

Once you've taken your pictures why don't you also video the house and then locking the door and putting the keys through the letterbox? Might be useful for later?

Jux Wed 04-Dec-13 08:32:11

Good idea Divinity. Atm the name is the game is Covering Your Arse.

Best of luck and everything, today, Far.

NettleTea Wed 04-Dec-13 10:52:35

hope it all goes smoothly as possible for you today

FarOverTheRainbow Wed 04-Dec-13 12:16:09

All the main stuff moved just last few boxes and clean up!

Got my appointment this afternoon too. The council have rang wanting me to go into their office which is weird I hope he's not causing trouble and its something of nothing

LemonBreeland Wed 04-Dec-13 12:23:42

Just catching up. I'm so sorry that he is making everything even harder for you.

I hope you manage to get out today with everything and no more drama.

Hopefully the council thing will just be something simple.

passedgo Wed 04-Dec-13 12:43:30

Well done. Get down to the council office, they may have housing on offer. Good luck.

perfectstorm Wed 04-Dec-13 13:03:09

Again, I agree with Divinity. Videoing is better than photographs because it can't be argued that you took photos before you trashed the place. I'm so sorry to say it, but it seems very likely they'll claim that. sad

Also think a refuge place is now very, very much a good idea because he's getting worse as you move beyond his control, and they can support you properly. They can also liaise with the council to ensure they comply with the law on prioritising you; I believe moving into a shelter is evidence you didn't make yourself intentionally homeless whatever the dates may do as it shows you were forced to move out for your own safety, and of course as you know it unlocks legal aid to protect yourself moving forward. And please remember to tell them about the knife incident - it's very scary indeed and I get the feeling your mind minimises and dismisses it because of that. Protective denial, so to speak. But it is important you ensure they know that it happened.

Good luck for today and I'm so glad you have those receipts. Shows him in an even worse light than if you'd bought them jointly.

Take the receipts with you to the council in case the arse is trying to claim you stole landlord's property, perhaps? Ideally they may just want to talk through a property that's come up or something.

You're doing so well. You should be proud of yourself.

custardo Wed 04-Dec-13 13:19:15

good luck

Jux Wed 04-Dec-13 18:35:52

Hope things went alright in the end and you're out with all the stuff, and above all safe now.

ShinyBauble Wed 04-Dec-13 20:23:49

I hope today went well Far smile

FarOverTheRainbow Wed 04-Dec-13 21:42:34

The move is all done. I'm out and got everything I wanted and left the house in perfect condition but I'm sure they'll be something. I'm at my mums at the minute but going to phone WA tomorrow and hopefully sort a refuge out.

I had the local women's appointment tomorrow and there going to give me support sessions to help me and after another session they can introduce me to a solicitor as well to ask any Qs I might have. The session was helpful and the women made me feel really at ease.

The move has been so bloody stressful it's untrue. I can't believe he turned up at the house and the police had to be called.

I haven't heard nothing yet but I'm looking for a new phone and will leave my current number on the phone I have but switched off. I think a fresh start is what I need all round. It was quite hard leaving the house, I know everything was final anyway but to just walk away from them memories was the hard thing hmm

FarOverTheRainbow Wed 04-Dec-13 21:44:59





perfectstorm Wed 04-Dec-13 21:50:29

It must have been so, so hard. But good to have done it, closed the door and now on to a new and better chapter.

The council app't was okay then?

Hope things start to look clearer and calmer for you in the week ahead. And hard as it was to leave there, at least that link with your in-laws has now evaporated, and you're finally able to be independent of the lot of them.

Hissy Wed 04-Dec-13 21:57:20

You've done the hardest part, it will get easier, soon.

Tomorrow you will feel better, the next day better still.

Keep that phone off for now. You don't need the hassle. You've done nothing wrong.

Tell your mother that if he shows up at hers to call the police. Every single time. If she doesn't she's placing you all at risk.

Don't let her pussy foot out of this.

FarOverTheRainbow Wed 04-Dec-13 21:58:06

I explained about me moving and they said I can go anytime today before 3 or tomorrow before 3 so ill go then.

I'm glad that link has gone but just wish I hadn't lost my house IYSWIM? I'd just made new mummy friends round there and I don't want to lose them friendships

Dreading tonight, DD doesn't cope well out of routine and being in different places so I'm really in for a bad night hmm

Hissy Wed 04-Dec-13 22:11:56

Expect it, dig deep, get to bed yourself early and know that it will get better as she settles.

You didn't lose your house. It wasn't ever yours. It was your home, but the next time will be the home that won't get taken from you.

That relationship was never going to succeed. You did all you could, but he broke it.

You will move on, you will get stronger, and you will find happiness.

myroomisatip Wed 04-Dec-13 22:20:33

Ah I just want to say that those of us who have been through shit know how you feel. No one, none of us, can actually do much but cheer you on.

Keep going. You have been amazingly strong, so much strong than I was, so I am very impressed smile

Divinity Wed 04-Dec-13 22:22:58

While there will be many memories attached to that house there are more happy memories to come in your new home. A home that is secure and where you are not blackmailed into giving your possessions.

You will find your dd will settle quicker than you thought and one night soon you'll look at her and realize she's much calmer, happier and relaxed.

It's been a really hard day for you. I'm glad it went as well as it could.

FarOverTheRainbow Thu 05-Dec-13 10:27:44

Thank you for all the support thanks

I feel okay this morning, started closing all my accounts related to the house and changing address and I think I'm going to go to Royal Mail and get a divert on anything that does go there in my name to make sure i don't miss anything

I'm hoping to sort a new phone out today aswell fingers crossed

Just trying to unpack and sort some of the mess out here and get organized. Haven't heard anything about the house yet even though he's texted about DD asking if I've stopped BF yet

gingerpig Thu 05-Dec-13 10:49:37

Well done for getting out. re Royal Mail diverts, you might want to check how this works as I think RM send a letter to the old address detailing the divert you have set up, and possibly (not 100% sure) the new forwarding address? Can anyone clarify?

LemonBreeland Thu 05-Dec-13 10:51:33

I'm glad you got out without any more drama.

The BF text is just crazy. Does he think that you will just hand her over for as long as he wants once you stop BFing? I hope you manage to get more sorted with limiting his access to you.

springyticktack Thu 05-Dec-13 11:06:11

lol he makes his tactics transparent re the BF question. He is one stupid dude eh.

Glad you're out and enjoying some peace Far. Brilliant fsmile

NadiaWadia Thu 05-Dec-13 11:17:46

gingerpig last time I did the Royal Mail forwarding service there was an option on the form to tell them whether you wanted the letter to the old address to show your new address or not. So Far be sure to select that you don't!

Hissy Thu 05-Dec-13 12:06:30

Whether your baby is BF or not, she won't be going over there unsupervised.

get that phone sorted asap

perfectstorm Thu 05-Dec-13 12:13:59

He's such a complete idiot. That new phone can't come too soon, hey. Non-stop harassment.

Hope WA have good news for you on the refuge front - you could do with some sanctuary and professional support, and so could your dd.

I imagine Far will be using her mum's address as the fowarding one, so it won't tell him anything even if RM do cock up.

FarOverTheRainbow Thu 05-Dec-13 16:08:30

It seems like my car has attracted some attention and I now have a smashed back light and big huge debt which looks like its been out there by a bat

ilovelamp82 Thu 05-Dec-13 16:12:26

Wow, he really is a prize idiot. He has no idea how to go about getting what he wants does he? If the police can't see this as harrasment, then what will they? What did the Police say?

stickysausages Thu 05-Dec-13 16:42:57

Report the damage to your car, he really is shooting himself in the foot! Idiot.

Abrahamlincolnsghost Thu 05-Dec-13 16:48:20

Far can you check for cctv where it was parked? if you need to get evidence it was him. Would be a big boost to your case if you can.

perfectstorm Thu 05-Dec-13 17:00:21

If there's CCTV anywhere near it was parked, then if he's caught on it in the time frame concerned, with a bat, he's screwed. Definitely get the police involved now.

Helpful in a way, that he is such a prize idiot - but please, please call Women's Aid. You really do need that refuge place, my love. He's very pissed off and you need to be somewhere he can't hassle you, I think.

ShinyBauble Thu 05-Dec-13 17:05:32

If you are in Oxfordshire PM me. My brother is a mechanic and he says he will fix the damage for parts cost only, to save you going through your insurance.

ShinyBauble Thu 05-Dec-13 17:06:02

But make sure the police see the damage and photograph it.

EQ2Junkie Thu 05-Dec-13 17:31:45

What a nasty wanker. You are well rid.

Not useful I know but (hugs)

FarOverTheRainbow Thu 05-Dec-13 18:01:46

This police women was more helpful and logged it all and asked how his behavior made me feel and if there's been anymore texts since I last reported it and said he does sound very aggressive and she's passed my details on to the local police for someone to hopefully come out tonight and look at it

ilovelamp82 Thu 05-Dec-13 18:19:42

Thats good. It's annoying and inconvenient and threatening, but hopefully this one act of stupidity on his part will help you keep him away from you permanently in the long run. Was your car parked outside your Mum's?

FarOverTheRainbow Thu 05-Dec-13 18:25:53

Yeh it was outside my mums. Spoke to WA and im going tomorrow and have tonight to sort everything with the police and pack some things

Hissy Thu 05-Dec-13 18:38:32

That's it now then. Destruction of property. Bingo!

Don't ever hand your dd over to him again, get an injunction and if you ever get the opportunity to press charges on him for anything, go for it.

This man and his family are truly evil, and you need to protect yourself and your dd.

NOW does your DM see what you're dealing with? Or is she still making excuses for abusive behaviour?

Don't ever let anyone do that, you hear? Not the police, not your dm, not anyone.

What he's done and doing is abuse, and it's unacceptable.

de-lurking to say you are so brave, and to wish you the very best. I know its not over, but I'm so relived for you that you are getting out.

Divinity Thu 05-Dec-13 19:21:37

But unless he admits it or there's CCTV there's no proof he's done it? (Bear in mind my legal training is a few episodes of Judge Judy).

I do believe its him or one of his friends. I'm just a bit cautious.

Did you ring WA for a refuge Far? From an outsiders perspective a refuge is a safe haven temporarily for you and dd. Although I realize we don't know your specific details.

Keep going, your ex is making a complete mess of things.

FarOverTheRainbow Thu 05-Dec-13 19:46:53

My mum completely agrees now and thinks k should go to a refuge if its going to help me and DD in court.

The police have phoned and are coming tomorrow and they said its very suspicious that he threatens to smash my car then a few weeks later this happens.

I'm worried about going now, I don't know where, what it will be like, people there but I know it's for the best. How much stuff do I take? An I allowed to go out in the day? The unknown isn't nice and it feels like my whole life is like that at the minute

Hissy Thu 05-Dec-13 20:46:04

Sweety, it's a place for you to be safe, not prison! It may be a bit far away, but that's for your safety.
Why not call WA and ask these questions? Get a little first hand reassurance!

Hissy Thu 05-Dec-13 20:51:33

You've had to come so far, and not a single step of it was one you ever wanted to take. We know. sad

But you've made it out. You have the police on your side, you have legal help and you have the council.

This is the beginning of the rest of your life, things might be tricky for a little while, but you've put all the foundations in place to get through.

Have faith. You'll be fine.

FarOverTheRainbow Thu 05-Dec-13 21:14:15

I just mean because its a safe place Idont know if there will be any restrictions on what you can/can't do but ill ask when I phone tomorrow because I have other Qs too

Hissy Thu 05-Dec-13 21:29:44

They may not allow men in, otherwise, you'll be free to come and go.

It'll be fine. You will be fine.

passedgo Thu 05-Dec-13 21:30:52

All I have ever heard about refuges is that they are great places. They have all the professionals there that you need, they help you with all the practical stuff and the emotional stuff and above all, they understand that men do get violent, can get dangerous and they will keep you and your daughter absolutely safe.

I think you're in one of those situations where you just have to do what needs to be done. You have done extremely well so far, better than most. Going to the refuge might give you the information and help that you can't just pick up along the way so that you can start again on your own terms.

Jux Thu 05-Dec-13 22:14:33

You are doing so well, against overwhelmed odds; and yet, you are not overwhelmed. You are a fighter and a survivor.

springyticktack Thu 05-Dec-13 22:21:27

It may sound sick to say it, but it's good that he has pulled out all the stops because it nails him for future reference. So glad to hear the policewoman this time was TRAINED (ffs!) and recognised what is going on. Of course they will/should add 2 + 2, making it obvious who did this - or at least who was behind it.

It's been hard on you - you have done so well, you've really got you and your daughter to a safe place. One more step to go. All I hear about refuges is good, too. A place with all the professionals on hand - instead of leaving messages and people not getting back; or shit police not knowing enough about DV. btw someone mentioned the DV police unit - if you are living in a small place, the DV unit may be in the nearest city? Whatever, I'd make sure this goes through the DV unit in future.

As you know, because he has pulled out all the stops, you will also qualify for legal aid, which is worth its weight in gold. These days legal aid is not easy to get and you need legal representation all the way - his antics have ensured you'll get it.

Well done Far. You've come so FAR fsmile

myroomisatip Thu 05-Dec-13 22:43:21

Hey keep going. It is hard but you are on the right path. It is uphill right now but soon it will get easier. ((hug))

I am in awe of your strength smile I wish I had had some of that years ago smile

teenybash7 Fri 06-Dec-13 10:20:57

Shinybauble that was such a kind offer from you and your brother!

Far, the worse he behaves, the more you should congratulate yourself for your strength in escaping from him. Keep going

terrierist Fri 06-Dec-13 10:32:54

Far you may like to have a look at this thread

It may answer some of your questions about going to a refuge.

Best of luck

perfectstorm Fri 06-Dec-13 10:37:41

Really lovely offer from Shiny. smile

Far, a woman posted this thread to say how incredible her experiences of a WA refuge were. She's posted since to say how good her life now is, and how her dd is thriving. Hopefully it'll offer you some reassurance.

I'm glad your mum has realised this is well outside the realms of a normal hostile breakup, now.

perfectstorm Fri 06-Dec-13 10:38:00

Cross post!

perfectstorm Fri 06-Dec-13 10:40:52

And Far, if you've not yet, please please tell the police about the knife incident. You only have to be honest about what happened - you aren't landing him in it or being OTT. He did it, he chose to, not you. And given things are escalating I do think that needs to be flagged up.

FarOverTheRainbow Fri 06-Dec-13 11:55:53

The police say that the damage to my car could be done by another car or something even though I don't see how another car could cause marks like it has and not others or it could be him but there's no way to prove either so not alot they can do. They were helpful about XP behavior though and said the police the other night were wrong and if I found him sitting there intimidating then they should have done something about it.

Spoke to WA and I'm going today

FarOverTheRainbow Fri 06-Dec-13 11:57:07

I'm worried that when it comes to me wanting to leave they might be funny about it?

perfectstorm Fri 06-Dec-13 12:03:27

They won't be funny about it! Refuge places are at a premium, so while they'd never want anyone to go before they were ready, they wouldn't want anyone to stay who didn't want to be there, either.

As far as I can see most women in refuges are there because a man has tried to control them. As a result, they are very very anxious to ensure you feel empowered and in charge of your own life and choices. That would include how long you stay and where you go when staying there. Truly, read that thread a couple of us linked to. I do think you'll find it helpful.

You'll have so much support in the refuge, and you so much deserve as well as need it. His behaviour is horrifying, and you will now be backed up and protected from him. Really pleased you're taking this step.

towicymru Fri 06-Dec-13 12:15:20

I think as long as you are going somewhere safe and are confident you will be safe, they will be happy for you. I think that counts as success.

You are so strong and brave. Your DD has a fantastic role model.

FarOverTheRainbow Fri 06-Dec-13 12:34:40

Me and mum have a nice Christmas shopping day out planned tomorrow so it will be nice to go to that so something to look forward too.

passedgo Fri 06-Dec-13 13:16:25

Keep us posted about how it goes at WA.

It might be best to think of the refuge as a temporary place to go while you get all your paperwork etc sorted out. It will enable you to keep your independence until you decide on your own terms what to do. And of course your safety. Moving in with your mother would get her involved and although that would be supportive of you for a while it could get complicated.

perfectstorm Fri 06-Dec-13 13:38:48

Yeah, think that's very wise advice. Your mum is such a source of support and strength right now, so if you can keep your independence by getting professional support from WA while maintaining that lovely relationship with your mum, that can only be a good thing moving forwards. It's so easy for mums to get overly involved and then it's hard for everyone if you have to re-establish boundaries. WA won't have the same intense and visceral involvement, so can offer a different sort of help.

Have a lovely Xmas shopping day - hope your dd enjoys all the lights!

YetAnotherFucker Fri 06-Dec-13 14:36:30

Might it be an idea to think about changing your car? If your ex doesn't know what to look for there's far less chance of it being damaged or you being followed

FarOverTheRainbow Fri 06-Dec-13 16:31:21

I'm here now and the lady has been absolutely lovely, the place is really nice and big

Changing my car will be something I'm deffinatly keen on but I need to sort the damage out and I can't imagine it's going to be cheap and I just don't have the money to pay out on it at the minute, still going to need a lot of things when I move too

Divinity Fri 06-Dec-13 17:12:05

Have she reassured you about the refuge Far? I'm glad that extra support at the moment as you car being hit is an escalation.

While changing your car would be a good thing its not the priority yet.

FarOverTheRainbow Fri 06-Dec-13 17:16:11

Yeh she has reassured me a lot, and talked about all the help and support that they offer and things they can do for me

passedgo Fri 06-Dec-13 18:24:19

That's great news. Hopefully you can have a peaceful night now that you are safe and looked after. smile

springyticktack Fri 06-Dec-13 18:53:45

Ah great, you've landed. phew fsmile fsmile fsmile

So glad it's a nice place...

hang on, I've just thought: do you mean you've arrived at a refuge, or arrived at a new place to live??

Whatever, it's all good! another fsmile

re refuges: it's not uncommon for women to leave to go back to their abuser (it can take a few goes to leave an abuser. Plus abusers turn on the charm/tears/pleading hmm ). So dont feel bad about leaving - you leave as and when you want to.

Hissy Fri 06-Dec-13 18:54:40

Take ALL the help and support you can get!

You need to do the freedom programme when you've caught your breath a bit.

FarOverTheRainbow Fri 06-Dec-13 19:00:36

I've arrived at the refuge, I've been speaking to one of huge other women here who was saying that were really lucky to get this place and it's really nice compared to others so I'm grateful for that. They offer a lot of support here and the lady said she will speak to me more Monday.

I must admit I am feeling a little sorry for myself though sad I want to feel positive and festive

perfectstorm Fri 06-Dec-13 19:31:21

It's natural to feel sad now, I think. You've been all focused on just getting through the immediate horror and on to the next bit, and now finally you've sorted all you can and are in a position where you can catch your breath and take stock. Of course all the sadness and shock over recent events will hit you, that's natural.

I'm so glad you're somewhere safe, with people trained and able to help you. Things start to improve for you from here! And have a lovely day with your mum tomorrow. You're doing so well, Far. Just look how far you've come from a few weeks ago.

ShinyBauble Fri 06-Dec-13 19:32:31

I'm pleased to hear you're in a safe place. I know it must feel really weird, but try and focus on your little one and enjoy the fact that he cannot get to you. Don't even read any texts from him.

None of this will seem great right now, but hopefully the council will find somewhere for you to live soon, and the fact that you are in a refuge almost definitely means you will be able to access legal aid if tosspot is determined to spend his parents money dragging you through the courts.

I hope you feel happier soon!

FarOverTheRainbow Fri 06-Dec-13 19:39:38

I forgot to bring so much stuff with me. My dad has a spare phone I can start using so when I go Christmas shopping tomorrow I'm going to get another SIM card.

I feel more confused about alot of things now. I never felt abused and I thought this was normal when break ups happen (ovb not the extreme stuff) but I didn't know any other way and now having to think and learn that it wasnt all normal is hard. I don't know things any other way so it's hard to get my head around

ShinyBauble Fri 06-Dec-13 20:39:53

There were times reading your thread that my heart would be thumping with anxiety for you. You HAVE left an abusive and threatening situation. He may not have beaten you up, but if you look back at the start of your first thread it's plain to see how emotionally abusive your ex was. That is a recognised form of domestic abuse and it can be just as damaging as physical abuse, so don't feel you shouldn't be there.

You need help and support, and hopefully you will receive both now.

springythatlldo Fri 06-Dec-13 22:34:12

Yes, it does tilt your thinking a bit, takes a bit of getting used to. But before long it'll be second nature, especially when you do the Freedom Programme - which will help you to see things more clearly. Even then, it's a shock. Plenty have gone before you, lovely (and plenty will come after you, sadly).

You've done so well to do all you've done to get yourself (and dd) somewhere safe. All the other women in the refuge will be in the same boat, and that helps, in a way. I didn't go to a refuge but I did attend a WA support group for a while: we helped one another with eg down days, fantasy days (when we didn't think the abuse was all that bad..), sad days, shock etc. There's nothing like it imo: to be with others who know what you're going through so you don't have to explain.

Glad to hear from you anyway. We're right there with you xx

passedgo Sat 07-Dec-13 02:01:14

I can imagine that you've been running on adrenaline for some time. Now you are able to wind down a bit your emotions will be taking over. Everything you obediently normalised over those years will have to be put in its righful place and you will have to start getting used to healthy relationships. My guess is this will take time. Fortunately there are people here on mn who have been through this and talk you through it.

FarOverTheRainbow Sat 07-Dec-13 09:29:22

A solicitors letter from XP just tried to be delivered to my mums but I told her not to sign for it. Seems as I'm in a refuge and she doesn't know where I'm not living with her and she doesn't know where I'm living so can't sign to say I've got it when she doesn't no when she'll see me to give it me. Wrong?

FarOverTheRainbow Sat 07-Dec-13 09:32:24

Okay now I'm worried that it was the wrong thing to do seems as I won't message him back with solicitor details and I've said all along he knows he can get me at my mums address. Shit what should I have done?

DeckTheHallsWithBoughsOfHorry Sat 07-Dec-13 09:44:01

Am I right in thinking you've told him to contact you only through your solicitor, but you haven't appointed one yet, or possibly you have but you haven't let him have the details?

If so I expect his letter will first be requesting contact details. You do really need to let him have those.

FarOverTheRainbow Sat 07-Dec-13 10:14:44

I haven't got one yet because I'm waiting to sort legal aid so I thought once that's sorted ill accept the letter then? I didn't really think tbh just panicked

ShinyBauble Sat 07-Dec-13 10:24:24

They will probably just try and redeliver, don't worry.

Mmmbacon Sat 07-Dec-13 10:37:51

Don't worry, a registered letter is totally different from normal post, normal post your mam can give it to you when she sees you, registered post could be for anything, a court summons for driving offence, a legal collection bill from a creditor of yours, a present of money from a friend, your mam did right in not signing for it on your behalf,
That said you do need to get legal aid sorted asap and forward details of your solicitor to him, if legal aid could take a while could you appoint someone un the interim to look after you until it is sorted?

Anniegetyourgun Sat 07-Dec-13 10:42:58

Discuss the letter thing with the nice lady on Monday, she's very likely to know what is best.

passedgo Sat 07-Dec-13 10:57:53

I don't think you should cut him out completely, including the phone. It is a case of managing him. Keep your phone on, leave it at your Mum's, let him deliver post there. He needs to feel that he will see you both again or he could get unpredictable and angry.

Disengage emotionally, but let him think you are still in contact IYSWIM.

perfectstorm Sat 07-Dec-13 12:58:59

Talk to the staff at the refuge - it's what they're there for. Talk to the refuge staff about appointing a solicitor, and how to do that under legal aid now, and stop worrying that he's still saying "jump" and you've stopped saying "how high?" You moved out 3 days ago, and he is freaking out after intimidating you with police witnesses, and almost certainly damaging your car, because you are no longer there to be bullied.

You are still in the mindset that he has power over you. He really doesn't, you know. Yes, he will have contact with dd in time, but that is down to a court to manage, not him to decide. He has no control over you and no automatic right to your prompt attention. You are an excellent carer of your child and have shown that, first by seeking to establish good contact and then by trying to take steps to ensure contact is safe. He has shown the reverse, time and time again. He can't remove your daughter from your care, he can't give you any less money for her maintenance than the zero he's already providing, and he can't attack, scare, bully or steal from you anymore either. This is going to make him angry, but you're not around for him to take that anger out on. You're safe and sound in a refuge.

Talk to the staff and get their guidance on what to do next. This isn't the first and certainly won't be the last time someone in their care is facing this situation, and they'll know how best to handle it - and him. For now, just put it out of your mind and try to relax. He can't hurt you anymore.

Hissy Sat 07-Dec-13 13:28:49

I agree, get advice.

Don't :ave your mum sign for anything as it's proof of receipt, but her signing for it when you are not there doesn't mean you have it

He can wait until you are ready. It won't kill him sadly.

You call the shots in your life now, not him.

He's forced you into a fucking refuge ffs, he has no right to demand anything from you.

And when you are ready to engage, tell him that if he wants to be civil, you'll expect money for the repairs to the car.

FarOverTheRainbow Sat 07-Dec-13 21:37:03

Thanks for all the advice, I'm still worried about it wondering what was the right thing to do, but I'll speak to the lady Monday when she's back and hopefully ease my mind then.

I'm trying to be positive but I feel quite down at the minute, then I think right its Christmas your favourite time of year enjoy it and when I can't I feel worse for it. I'm trying to make here seem more homely so brought me and DD a little tree that I've put up, but I thinki need some other decorations too to feel a little more festive. I had a nice day shopping but there was a cloud hanging over it and it was really hard to leave my mum when I just wanted to get on the sofa and watch X factor

DollyTwat Sat 07-Dec-13 23:27:15

Far you're doing so well
This is a means to an end - just a short stage in the chapter to your new home. It's not forever

The way things have gone have been the way he chose. Not you. So this is the last time you have to react to it. I. The future you will make the choices.

springythatlldo Sun 08-Dec-13 09:51:17

Isn't there a tv at the refuge? I doubt you'd be the only one there who is into the X factor!

It'll take a few days to get your bearings - you're in a different environment, not at 'home'. I agree with dolly that this is a short stage 'in the chapter to your new home' (well put dolly). Yes, go all-out and get some nice decorations - you can take them with you when you move into your new place fsmile

I hope you start making connections with the other women soon. You have to bear in mind that you're all in shock, none of you expected to end up in a refuge. ime of the WA support group - an absolute lifeline btw - I never met such amazing women, had so much fun or laughed so much. And, yes, we were all in shock and traumatised but there was a lot of black humour flying about.

I doubt it'll be long before you settle in xx

FarOverTheRainbow Sun 08-Dec-13 19:20:29

There's a TV in the communal room but its locked at weekends. I'm hoping to change my old TV license over so I can bring mine here, it will make the world of difference.

I still feel a bit of a fraud being here hmm

bunchoffives Sun 08-Dec-13 19:53:36

There's a TV in the communal room but its locked at weekends

Good heavens, that's practically abuse that is! grin What are the Refuge thinking??
Seriously, can you watch on your internet connection?

Keep going Far, you're doing so very well. You've just shown such good sense and stoicism all the way through this. Not much longer now.

You'll be so glad you went to the Refuge in a few weeks time when you've got the legals sorted (the refuge will help on mon) and you've had the support to make sense of all this for yourself and DD. Try to relax and rest until mon as much as you can.

Don't forget you've got another move coming up so this is the time to recoup a bit. Why not knock on someone's door and introduce yourself later?

springythatlldo Sun 08-Dec-13 21:18:05

I assure you, there is no way they would have given you a place at a refuge if you were a 'fraud'. No way. His abuse has been obvious and blatant; and you and dd are at risk. That's why you're there.

HOpe you get the telly in soon and you can begin to settle, even if you're not there long. Perhaps somebody could put together a checklist of what to take into a refuge. It could be you who does that Far, now you have the experience xx

perfectstorm Mon 09-Dec-13 09:51:13

Women's Aid only allocate places where there is clear and pressing need. There's a national shortage of places - honestly, if they had the least doubt that you and your dd were at risk and his behaviour was frightening you would not be there.

Hope you're feeling better this week, and that the advice workers are able to reassure you on what to do next.

FarOverTheRainbow Mon 09-Dec-13 18:08:35

I have my TV sorted and its made such a difference! Makes me feel alot more comfortable being here IYSWIM, just having back ground noise and not silence. I've met some f the other ladies and sat having a couple of tea and let the babies play together and were all going out tomorrow for a coffee and a nose round the area

Divinity Mon 09-Dec-13 18:13:20

Good to hear you're settling in and that you're making friends.

perfectstorm Mon 09-Dec-13 18:39:17

That's so good to hear. smile Hope you have a nice time tomorrow.

FarOverTheRainbow Mon 09-Dec-13 18:59:58

My mum has just caught XP slowly driving past hers hmm

YouSayPotato Mon 09-Dec-13 19:35:56

Has XP tried to contact you or youur mum?

FarOverTheRainbow Mon 09-Dec-13 19:40:05

No not for a few days. Im sure now that he's noticed I'm not there he'll keep looking and when he realises he don't know where me and DD are then he's going to get pissed off angry.

I knew he would drive past so I don't know why it's worried me so much

perfectstorm Tue 10-Dec-13 00:22:26

He's a loon, and it's yet more evidence of intimidation/efforts to control.

I have to say, it's good to know you're somewhere safe. Must be a relief for your parents as well.

bunchoffives Tue 10-Dec-13 00:29:36

He will have to adjust to the new situation Far and will miss the feeling of being in control and able to call all the shots. He might rant and rave (and you don't have to worry about that now) but he will adjust over time and move on eventually into making someone else's life a misery

Hissy Tue 10-Dec-13 06:29:22

If your mum sees him do that again, she needs to report him to the police.

Jux Tue 10-Dec-13 08:20:30

She does need to report him, and also to write down the details - date, time etc.

It worries you because he is doing what was expected, which you use to infer the likelihood of his other beahviours continuing too. However, HE DOESN'T KNOW WHERE YOU ARE.

You are safe.Your children are safe.

All the people who can help and protect you know about it and will be on standby to look after you.

You are safe. Your children are safe.

If you feel yourself beginning to get frightened or panicky, take deep breaths and keep telling yourself that you are all safe.

I hope you have a fab time out with the girls today!

Divinity Tue 10-Dec-13 08:41:20

Thank goodness you did decide on a refuge Far. How bad would he have been if he knew you were at your mums? I shudder to think.

Anyway, ignore him and have a fab time today with the girls. smile

springythatlldo Tue 10-Dec-13 10:32:49

I know I keep dragging this back to me being bullied at work, but I also am frightened by the bullying, but the person dishing it out is nothing to do with me emotionally iyswim. This person does have power over me, though, and that is a large part of why I'm frightened (but I think bullying can be frightening, too).

BUT he doesn't have power over you. Maybe it'll take a bit of adjustment to get it that he doesn't have any power over you . When you get that, the fear will vanish.

FarOverTheRainbow Tue 10-Dec-13 15:14:13

The council think I could get the keys to my new place days before Christmas now but might not have to move until after. I'm worried about going back into the town now hmm.

I've got a meeting here tomorrow and the women wants to talk about me getting a non malestation order

It's horrible to fear someone and be scared of what MIGHT happen.

Jux Tue 10-Dec-13 16:19:05

That's a large part of what abuse is, what MIGHT happen, so the abuser doesn't have to bother to do much, just be threatening and let your imagination do the rest. Don't let him win! Keep reminding yourself that you're safe and that he has no power now.

Good news on the house from the Council.

A non-molestation order sounds good. It's an added layer of protection.

ShinyBauble Tue 10-Dec-13 16:28:02

At least you're safe now Far, and hopefully your meeting tomorrow will be positive in terms of getting help for you.

Don't minimize your situation and tell them you don't feel your situation is bad enough to warrant you being there, just tell them how worried you are and accept all help. The only difference between you and worse cases is that you looked for help and support straight away. Some women wouldn't call the police or Women's Aid, they try to cope alone. It's an easy trap to fall into. You are doing so well!

perfectstorm Tue 10-Dec-13 18:49:03

Grab a non-molestation order with both hands, tbh. It means you don't need to be so scared of going into town, because he has to leave you alone and if he doesn't, there will be consequences to ensure he doesn't make the same mistake twice. You can also ask that it means he can't use anyone else to get at or harass you, which would cover his sister and parents and friends.

I'm so glad you're where you are. You will get proper support and decent legal advice now. Please don't be scared of him, you've been so brave in enlisting help now, as has already been said. Things were escalating - he was starting to move beyond threats alone - and would have got worse. You had the strength to take action rapidly, so you can protect yourself and your daughter. That's something to be proud of, again as others have said.

FarOverTheRainbow Tue 10-Dec-13 19:44:02

I'm feeling really guilty that he's not going to see DD over Christmas, I know it's his own fault but I just think how much it would break my heart and I feel guilty hmm

I was speaking to one of the women and if I apply for a non malestation order he will get a copy of the statement that I have is supply won't he? I don't want this cause then it gives him time with his solicitor to twist everything on to me instead if just getting the shock of his life in court.

I still feel like abit of a fraud being here hmm but I do feel safe

Hissy Tue 10-Dec-13 19:55:21

Why would you feel guilty for not allowing your daughter to be with people that WILL neglect her and will allow her to suffer?

YOU are not HIM - got that? YOU are not the one here that is in his place. You gave him ALL the keys to be a decent person, even way before this whole mess blew up.

he doesn't know how to be a good man/parent, he doesn't want to be either.

he is a nasty, insecure, pathetic bully who will hurt your DD to hurt you. He will frighten her, your mum and you to make a point against you, he won't give up despite warning after warning and he will look for ever inventive ways of intimidating you.

He is out of your life now, keep it that way. he needs to be kept away from DD for her own good.

Trust me, as lucky as you are to get a place in a refuge, you are not in there via fraud, the pressure on places is so high that they wouldn't give that place to you unless they felt you needed it.

You were not even safe at your mums FFS.

perfectstorm Tue 10-Dec-13 20:15:40

That isn't how family courts work, Far. You can't have something thrown on anyone. What happens is that both sides write a position statement, and then have a chance to reply to the other side's, setting out their version of events the other has claimed. And allegations of domestic abuse are set out on a separate form, too. So neither side can ambush the other at all.

Don't be scared of his solicitor twisting things. The reality is that judges in family courts are solely interested in the interests of the children when contact proceedings are at stake, and they will know that intimidating your child's mother so you can try to grab material possessions she has receipts for, after harassing and bullying her endlessly, all in the presence of that child, is not indicative of great parenting.

A non-molestation order isn't actually that easy or automatic to get, and nor is a place in a refuge, and the judge will know that. Your ex can twist things all he likes, you have evidence in spades of his behaviour and you've acted to protect your baby from him and his family until a safe contact framework can be set up. A non-molestation order will keep you safe and able to catch your breath and the court will look at how to ensure contact isn't harmful to your dd.

You're still scared of him, of his power over you. But he doesn't have any. All court action will be about is how he has contact. That's it. There's nothing he can do to you. You don't have to see him anymore or deal with him again, and you're really likely to get brief contact centre contact to begin with, too, so you don't have to be scared about him taking her and leaving her alone with your MIL all day either. You'll get a residence order so he can't take her from your care, and a schedule for contact will mean you know what the pattern is and can plan for it. So he can lie as much as he likes and try to make out you're the baddie all he wants, the judge is not going to give a shiny shit. The judge doesn't care who the baddie is. He or she cares that your dd has contact in a safe way with a parent, and that she has a secure home base. So all he'll do if he rants and is angry is look who he is - someone incapable of putting his child's interests first. Let him lie. He can't lie his way out of all he's done in front of witnesses - ffs you needed a police escort into your own home on moving day, after which he sat there in the road in his car trying to scare you - and your friend was there when he tried to break in to steal property you had receipts for from you. That is not normal behaviour. None of it is.

FarOverTheRainbow Tue 10-Dec-13 20:58:19

I don't know why I feel guily, I think because it's Christmas and the festive time and all families get together and I'm trying to do some fun things with DD. Getting photos done of her dressed up, were going to make Christmas cards and some decorations and I think I just feel for him that he's missing out but I know it's his own fault and even though I feel bad for him there's no way I'll let him see her. When he sent me that drunken text begging to change my mind and let him see her that made me feel terrible and I doubted myself so much but then nothing's changed. He hasn't changed into a loving parent who can take care of her and put her needs and welfare first and I still don't trust him to return her and not use her as a pawn in a game only he wants to play.

I know you say it will be about contact with DD but I just know that they aren't going to let me get away width saying there's abuse involved. He truly thinks it's all me so I know he isn't going to a accept and just let it go whatever is said in my statement sad

ShinyBauble Tue 10-Dec-13 21:04:55

He is reaping what he sowed. Maybe it was partly to wind you up, but he was neglectful of her care. He knew you didn't want his mother to have her, so his mother had her. He must have known it was wrong to keep her late, and threaten to keep her from you, and not put a nappy on her so she was sitting in her own pee, but he did it anyway. And all this is why you had to stop contact.

He made this rod for his own back, because I'm certain that if he was good with her during his visitation you would not have stopped it. He pushed you to the limit. he should be feeling guilty, not you, because you can't trust him to provide basic care for her.

ShinyBauble Tue 10-Dec-13 21:05:53

Cross posted!

FarOverTheRainbow Tue 10-Dec-13 21:13:04

I tried so hard to keep the contact going. I put up with his shit and behavior towards me and still kept taking her. I was never late at pick up or drop off, I sent her with everything she needed and more, when he sent her back in shit I spoke to him about it to give him the opportunity to make sure it didn't happen again but it did with wee. I tried to keep it going I never wanted it to go to court. I always hoped that we could co parent in the future and go to parents evenings together and back each other up on punishments but he can't put DD first and can't be civil. Why fight me for time to dump her on his mum? He can't want his baby girl that much sad

Hissy Tue 10-Dec-13 21:48:50

Because NOTHING about your DD is about her... HE HURTS HER TO HURT YOU. Just like his mother did, to get her 'fix'

He let her too. Even when you told him what was what he backed her and her harm of your DD.

perfectstorm Tue 10-Dec-13 21:49:58

Far, there are police witnesses to his having sat outside your home to intimidate you. There are texts showing he bullied and hassled and threatened you. It doesn't matter what he says - he can whine and pout and stamp his entitled little feet all he likes, it makes no difference. He's going to be in court to seek contact, and you're happy for him to have it as long as your child is safe and well cared for. The judge is not interested in working out who is in the right, vindicating your ex or patting his whiny little head. They're busy people trying to get the best outcome for the kid(s), so if he thinks it's going to be a trial of who is the bad guy, he's in for a sorry disappointment, because it isn't. And the nastier he is about you, the more he makes your case for you, because it shows he has no insight into his own behaviour. Truly, stop worrying. It doesn't matter what he says or doesn't say - you have solicitors to worry about that, you just focus on getting the future sorted. They are used to dealing with manipulative, abusive arses. It's their bread and butter. He can't scare or twist things to them, because they don't care about him or what he thinks. They're there to do a job, which is to look after your dd's best interests.

You really haven't done anything wrong here. And you really have nothing to feel bad about. You're protecting your child. If the ex had behaved like an actual human being, none of this would ever have happened - including you and your dd needing to be in a women's refuge instead of your mum's house. sad You tried to make contact work - he used it as a tool to steal the electrical equipment. Think that says it all.

bunchoffives Tue 10-Dec-13 23:34:52

It's time you stopped worrying about being unfair to him Far and started to get angry.

If you were my daughter I'd be absolutely livid with your ex. Here are you and DD, having been made homeless by your DD's grandparents and in a refuge to escape their pathetic excuse of a son. And over Christmas too. angry

Look at all the stress he's caused you. Look at how many people have had to intervene and support all because of his pathetic bullying. Look at the time the police and WA/refuge have had to devote to protecting you and DD - and all because of his selfish, nasty bullying.

If I were you I would no longer care what he would make of a non-mol order or restricted contact application. These are the consequences of the way he has chosen to behave and continues to behave. Focus on you and DD.

springythatlldo Wed 11-Dec-13 00:44:11

In short, it's not about what you say or what he says, it's about what the witnesses and the evidence say. There are plenty of witnesses and evidence that he is using her to abuse you. As perfectstorm says, the judges are only looking to get the child/ren safe and won't listen to anything other than evidence. You are in a refuge - there is no way you would have got a (precious) place in a refuge if the powers that be didn't think you needed to be there to be safe. That alone says enough - but you also have police witnesses that he threatened and intimidated you. The evidence is banked up on your (and dd's) side. You have nothing to fear.

I said 'in short' and I was 'in long' - sorry fblush

FarOverTheRainbow Wed 11-Dec-13 14:03:15

My heads even more puzzled now, I need to decide by the weekend if I want to move back to where I use to live to the flat the coucil have offered me or if I want to start again somewhere else. I'm worried about going back there because I do think when he finds out where I live he will cause me problems but I've never imagined living anywhere else and I don't want to move away from my friends and family. So confused.

ShinyBauble Wed 11-Dec-13 14:08:35

I can see that would be a tough choice, but I think if I were you I would choose the local place. Yes he's there, but as you say, so is your support network.

If you moved away, and he did track you down, you would be away from the people who would support you.

Is the flat suitable, or would you like to wait for something better locally?

Hissy Wed 11-Dec-13 14:09:37

You have until the weekend.

Sleep on it and see how you feel tomorrow.

Get the non-mol order and you will be protected. In short, live where you WANT to live.

perfectstorm Wed 11-Dec-13 14:11:41

If you got a non-molestation order, which would extend to your not being harassed by any of his family or friends, would that give you any confidence that you'd be safe from him?

perfectstorm Wed 11-Dec-13 14:12:22

X-post with Hissy.

And you seem well loved by family and friends, so why should you and your dd lose out on that because of him, I agree.

FarOverTheRainbow Wed 11-Dec-13 15:01:09

I haven't saw the flat yet but they could call me any day now to go and view it

If I knew he couldn't come near then it would make me feel a little better. I just feel like he's never going to leave me alone.

Dd is obsessed with the Christmas tree and being over tired she is not fun today hmm

wonderingagain Wed 11-Dec-13 15:01:23

I would imagine that a lot of these men get tired of it after a while and go and start somewhere fresh where they can find a gullible new community/partner to ensconce themselves into.

It would be an added stress to move away from family and friends, and either way he might find you - at least by staying you have more people around that can see him coming and keep an eye out for you.

Jux Wed 11-Dec-13 21:18:59

I think you need support from your family and the scent of familiar places more than you need to protect yourself feom him. The police are at the end of a phone and can get to you in no time if you need them.

I would start off with the local place if it's OK. Your mum will be around. You'll know where everything is. So you won't have to think about those sort of practicalities.

If he ramps things up, tracks you down, makes a nuisance of himself, then there are transfers between council properties, swaps, stuff you can do then, but you may not need to.

But that's just my opinion.

perfectstorm Wed 11-Dec-13 21:54:57

I'd talk it through with the advisors at WA. They have a lot of experience, sadly. They can give you an informed opinion and also help with what can be set up to keep you safe in your own local area.

EQ2Junkie Wed 11-Dec-13 22:00:31

Toss a coin. Heads to stay there, tails to move away.

How do you feel based on which side of the coin shows? ie if it is tails to move away and you are really upset, stay put.

It will help your gut feeling of what you feel will be better.

Hope that makes sense smile

stickysausages Wed 11-Dec-13 22:07:42

A fresh start would be tempting.... but your mum sounds very supportive, do what feels best for you. My stepmum had a panic button in the house when she was being hassled, there are ways to feel safe at hone if you stay.

CalamitouslyWrong Thu 12-Dec-13 08:08:52

Far: when I was a teenager my parents split up. My dad refused outright to see my younger sister but insisted on seeing me regularly. He'd pick me up, take me all the way to the other side of the city and dump me with my grandparents/his sister. He'd also plan nice things and then not show up (a particularly memorable and much anticipated trip to the theatre) or refuse to take us (he organised a holiday to disney world and the day before we were due to go he decided that he would punish my mum by not taking us, and took my aunt and cousin instead; I then had to listen to how great the holiday was when I was dumped with them afterwards).

It was, I now realise, all about the power. He didn't care about me or my sister. All he cared about was our value as weapons in his war against my mother. He hurt her by refusing to see my sister and also hurt her by insisting on seeing me. It was incredibly damaging for us both.

You are doing a much better job than my mother did because you have recognised what your ex is doing and are taking steps to protect both your daughter and yourself. That makes you brilliant.

BlueGoddess Thu 12-Dec-13 11:03:14

Would it help to do a pro and con list for staying in each of the areas?

Your stomping ground, for example would have a pro of people to support you, and a con of him.

If the cons can be managed, for example by an order to stop him coming near you then they can be crossed off.

You are doing fabulously, and you have my admiration. cake

FarOverTheRainbow Thu 12-Dec-13 22:31:45

I've spoken to the lady here tosh quickly and I have another meeting tomorrow and they've said they don't think in ready to leave and could do with being here for another 3-4m so they said what do I think to the idea of them phoning te council and explaining the situation and see'ing if they would put my application on hold for a while

Jux Thu 12-Dec-13 23:12:10

How do you feel about that?

ChasedByBees Thu 12-Dec-13 23:18:11

They do sound very supportive and I'm glad to read you feel safe there. I think a while longer to get mental reserves of strength built up would be good x

CalamitouslyWrong How could any father do that to his children? I hope you don't see him now?

FarOverTheRainbow Thu 12-Dec-13 23:29:23

I didn't refresh before I posted blush that's terrible what your father done. It must have caused so many problems and hard feelings between you and your sister hmm

I mostly feel like I would be a good thing, the support they can give while things go through court sounds amazing and I think that would really help me but then another part of me wants to just get on with things but then another part of me doesn't know where I want to get on with them, IYSWIM? I'm really hoping the council don't want me to view this place before Christmas so it gives me a little more time but I'm really confused

Jux Fri 13-Dec-13 00:54:12

You do have a lot on your mind right now. There have been so many profound changes to your life in a very short time. You have been fighting one way or another for a long time. It will take time for you to stop automatically going into protective mode, and to stop worrying or being scared.

Where would you rather be while you are unwinding and learning to see the world around you as generally benign, rather than a place where you have to be on your guard?

FarOverTheRainbow Fri 13-Dec-13 09:58:59

A part of me what's to stay here, I feel safe here they give great support and they'll support me through court and I can actually eat here, I haven't been able to eat properly at home since this all started but then Idont like being away from my family and I do want to get settled but I don't want to lose the help here hmm

passedgo Fri 13-Dec-13 10:07:56

Did they say they want you to stay 3-4months? Did they say why? It seems like a long time.

ShinyBauble Fri 13-Dec-13 10:08:04

You don't need to be in a rush to get settled Far, now you are in a safe supportive place just let everything take as much time as it needs.

FarOverTheRainbow Fri 13-Dec-13 10:11:08

They said it would be good for me to stay that long so I can get some proper support and safety measures in place for when I do decide move

passedgo Fri 13-Dec-13 10:33:54

That sounds as though they are very concerned about his behaviour. If he is that bad then yes you should stay there. They have probably seen similar cases to yours and are basing their advice on that.

Three months will give him time to cool off and understand that he can't get away with this any more. He will probably drift away himself after that amount of time. It also means that when you do move, you are going to stay there and you won't need to move again.

CalamitouslyWrong Fri 13-Dec-13 11:51:45

Oh, I don't want to derail the thread with my crappy family. grin. No I don't see him any more, and it's been so long that I don't really give him any thought any more. I don't have much relationship with my sister either because she's incredibly difficult. I'm sure the psychological damage of our upbringing contributed to that, but she is a total nightmare.

I was mostly trying to help far to understand the dodgy power plays that are behind insisting on seeing your child(ren) and then dumping them with someone else. Sadly, some parents are too caught up in winning their pathetic battles or hurting their ex to care about what it does to their children.

Far: you are doing so brilliantly to protect yourself and your daughter from this utterly awful situation. I'm so glad you have proper support.

springythatlldofornow Fri 13-Dec-13 14:02:03

Ah, great that they are offering to extend your place there. I think it would be a good idea to take it - as a pp said, they know what they're doing and have the experience, they wouldn't offer it unless they thought it was in the best interests of you and dd.

One of the reasons could be that he and his family are on the warpath - a good few months of you being completely off the radar will protect you from their nastiness and constant manipulations. It will be good for him and his family to know they can't have their way in anything they set their mind to - not that they would get their own way anyway, but you don't want to have to weather their constant bombardments in the process of them finding out they are on shakey ground.

You would also get the chance to smooth your feathers and live in PEACE, which can't be underestimated.

Jux Fri 13-Dec-13 16:20:24

Far, you can accept their offer of 3-4 months and see how it goes. It may be that you will be ready to move earlier than that. They are giving you an approximate timescale, but no one has to stick to it.

If you feel safe there at the moment, and you can eat and manage day to day life, then I'd stay for the time being.

FarOverTheRainbow Fri 13-Dec-13 16:43:39

They've arranged for me to see a solicitor Monday but the council have phoned and I have to view this flat Tuesday and decide by then if I want to take it. The women spoke to the council and explained the situation to see if they could put a hold on y application until I'm ready to leave here but they said they couldn't and if I don't accept it ill be out to the bottom of priority and you can only make one homeless application in 12m. They said I can make other applications to other councils based on DV but not to them. So if Idont accept this i won't get another council place in my home town, I'd either have to rent or move somewhere else. My head is more messed up then it was this morning

brainonastick Fri 13-Dec-13 18:23:47

Can you accept it, but just not move in until you're ready? I have no idea if that's possible or even a good idea, but you could talk to the refuge about it and see what they suggest?

Jux Fri 13-Dec-13 19:07:27

How long before you would have to pay rent? I mean, if you were to accept it, under normal circumstances, you wouldn't necessarily move in on Wednesday would you? There'd be a lull before you had to start paying rent.

I am wondering whether you could accept it, but stay in the refuge, claim HB (which you would probably have to do anyway) and pay the rent until you were ready to move in?

I ahve no idea whether that is practical or allowable or anything.

I am cross that the Council are so inflexible. I know that Council houses are like gold dust, but surely they could just keep your application bobbong about at the top until you're ready. At least you're seeing the solicitor before Tuesday, and have a few days to see what the refuge people say about it.

ShinyBauble Fri 13-Dec-13 19:31:55

To be honest brainonastick they have rules about council home occupation. I don't think she would be allowed to take a place and not move in for three months. I live in a HA house, and I can only be out of the house for six weeks a year. Of course, they don't HAVE to know, it just depends whether the neighbours would mind their own business or not.

It might be an idea to view the place unless you've been advised against it. For all you know it might be unsuitable anyway. If you do want it, you could potentially have a few more weeks at the refuge while the paperwork is completed?

But it's horrible that they won't make exceptions for women who are in refuges ffs.

FarOverTheRainbow Fri 13-Dec-13 20:10:56

You get 2 free weeks at Christmas and sometimes they give you 1 free week to decorate so if I got that I wouldn't have to pay rent until 6th January. I have to claim housing benifit at the refuge but they can apply for a transition period where I could possibly ge another 4 weeks here.

perfectstorm Fri 13-Dec-13 20:11:17

I would imagine that the refuge will need OP to claim housing benefit for her residency there, too. They must be expensive to run, and they'll need every penny they are entitled to claim to keep them open and working. It's just a guess and so I may be completely wrong, but I would assume a stay of any length of time relies on claims for HB by residents, to help meet some of the running costs. And it wouldn't be possible to claim for 2 addresses, obviously.

Perhaps a visit to the flat would be good, as another poster suggests. If it's horrible, then you have the decision made really, don't you. I'd also call Shelter, as councils can be remarkably precise in giving facts, without giving other options, at times. You may have other entitlements/grounds to claim they either don't know about or aren't sharing with you. Worth a try, anyway?

perfectstorm Fri 13-Dec-13 20:11:43

X post, Far.

FarOverTheRainbow Fri 13-Dec-13 20:38:52

Thanks for the idea about calling shelter, ill speak to the support worker Monday and hopefully she'll call them

FarOverTheRainbow Sat 14-Dec-13 08:27:09

I went to bed last night thinking, I know that at this minute in time it's right for me to stay at the refuge, the support ill get here is brilliant and to walk away from that into the unknown when I know things are going to get worse isn't going to be a good thing for me, it's tough that ill have to turn down this flat BUT when the time comes to leave ill deal with the mess then. Then I was up in the middle of the night and think, ill be mad to turn down this flat it's in a good area I won't get offered another place like it, I can't just say ill face moving when the time comes if I stay because going back into town wot really be an option so take the flat and you'll have no choice but to deal with whatever happens.

I just don't bloody no hmm

passedgo Sat 14-Dec-13 08:33:13

Talk to the staff at the shelter, maybe they can do something to get the council to hold it for you?

FarOverTheRainbow Sat 14-Dec-13 08:37:30

We tried that pass hmm they can't do anything. If I refuse this place I can only apply to other councils when I'm ready to move out.

I feel so much pressure to make the right decision. It's a huge and I want to do what's best for DD, I don't want to keep up rooting her from one place to another, she still isn't settled here and it's not fair on her

PrimalLass Sat 14-Dec-13 09:05:40

Go and see it - you will know then whether you can feel safe there. If it's not until the 6th of Jan you might feel very different by then.

ShinyBauble Sat 14-Dec-13 13:35:49

Absolutely, tell them you'll attend the viewing, take someone else with you if possible as a second pair of eyes, and to distract your toddler if she gets grumpy.

All I would say is try not to be late! It's best to aim to be ten minutes early if possible and wait, some councils will do anything to justify getting names struck off their lists. I don't want to worry you, but you can't risk being 15 minutes late.

perfectstorm Sat 14-Dec-13 13:45:24

Just chiming in to support the other posters. If you fall in love with it, then it may influence your choice, and if it's miserable and depressing then same, in the opposite direction. Nothing to lose by going to look, is there?

It's so unfair that you have to be this on the ball and organised when you have been so strong so long, and probably just want to curl into a ball and put your head under the covers for a few days. Life is usually like that and it always struck me as one of the worst things about really hard times. But in a way, this is the first time you've had to choose between two positive options in a long time, isn't it? Whether a new place is better, or staying somewhere you'll have heaps of support instead. So that is progress, when up till recently your choices were between different awful options. Neither one is a disaster in any way, so you can pick the best for you - a tough choice, but at least a positive one?

nobeer Sat 14-Dec-13 14:21:54

Sorry I haven't posted before, just been lurking. I don't know how WA works, but could you take the flat (if you like it, of course!), and continue to see the WA counsellors at a day centre? I think you really need their continued expert support.

NadiaWadia Sat 14-Dec-13 14:26:03

I am so sorry far what stupid rigid rules there are. And this situation must have come up quite often with other women, you would think the Shelter and the Council could have got together to modify the rules and make an exception in cases like yours.

But I wonder if the Shelter could maybe still give you help and support even if you are not living there? Or could you stay there for a year so that you would then be eligible to make a new application for housing?

ChasedByBees Sat 14-Dec-13 18:07:06

That is really inflexible. What support are the refuge giving you? I'm wondering if its support you could still access on an 'outpatient' basis if you visited there still.

Hissy Sat 14-Dec-13 19:57:50

Talk to the staff At the refuge! Go see the place, if it's habitable, take it.

You can't afford to go to the bottom of a pile!

You can get help from the refuge outreach workers, and you can get support. You can do this!

FarOverTheRainbow Sat 14-Dec-13 20:04:03

The support that the refuge offer is 6 weeks worth of phone calls, they don't do visits because their to busy and they can't come to appointments with you either. At the minute I'm thinking I'm going to stay and when it's time to move ill try and get something close to home and if I sill don't like it ill try and he an exchange and if not ill apply to the local coucil again when my 12m are up. But I'm still going to view it and if the solicitor says I can get an injunction Monday and then the place is nice ill be tempted to take it.

I make a decision and feel very strog about it and then hours later I'm unsure hmm

FarOverTheRainbow Sat 14-Dec-13 20:14:12

I suppose one of the good things about being with XP was that I didn't have to make decisions hmm

NadiaWadia Sat 14-Dec-13 20:29:43

So you mean they wouldn't be able to visit you if you're living on the outside? But does that mean you wouldn't be able to go in and see them either?

You are getting stronger far and have faith in your own decisions. Don't wish yourself back with him. You and DD deserve so much more.

Hissy Sat 14-Dec-13 21:15:49

Get yourself on the freedom programme,b and referred for counselling via the GP. That's a start. You can do this.

Your abuse was of a kind that was subtle, but reversible. The escalation was after he'd left, so while shocking, was thankfully short. It's scared you, but as you've caught yourself so quickly, you can turn this around quickly.

The phone support would be from the refuge. On top of that there's WA helpline AND respect helpline.

Furthermore you have your HV.

You can do this.

You should be able to get a non-mol based on his refusal to adhere to boundaries, and respond to police warnings, not to mention the drive-by of your mum's.

You can do this. Go see the place on Monday and as long as you like it and can make a go of it, take it and relax in your new home.

This guy's spooked you, but he's a rank and twatty amateur. You have MN in your pocket, by your side 24 hours, and you have the police, the HV, the council and the refuge with you.

ChasedByBees Sat 14-Dec-13 22:43:44

I do think if you could visit the refuge, getting your flat and getting your future secure would be worthwhile. Do talk through all the pros and cons with people there though, they may be able to propose other options.

FarOverTheRainbow Sat 14-Dec-13 22:58:59

I really want to make me and DD a home and I got it in y head that we would be
Moving to this flat and I plan things in my head for the future and now for that to be in question just confuses me further. I'm worried about taking this flat and him finding out and smashing my windows or getting someone else to, turning up drunk, damaging my car and just being a nightmare hmm

When you leave refuge your not allowed back to visit, not sure why but its a rule

Jux Sat 14-Dec-13 23:31:00

I think it's to keep it's location secret. It's an added layer of security. How are you getting on apart from your quandary about the flat? Did you have a good Saturday?

springythatlldofornow Sat 14-Dec-13 23:36:25

This is the sort of thing you could see your MP about - that's what they're there for, to fight your cause. Tell him/her what you wrote in your last post. It's definitely worth a try, though it's not guaranteed you'll get lucky (some MPs are looking for a cause to support to further their career ) ( she says cynically ). It's awful that you have to worry about stuff like the above and can't relax where you are - until you're ready, and the time is right, to move. I'd also get your GP onside, detailing the above, who may have some say in this. GPs have a lot of clout.

In the meantime, one foot in front of the other. Try to take each day as it comes and try not to worry about the future. I know that's easy to say but give it a try: 'worry' about the day you're in, keep the days compartmentalised.

perfectstorm Sun 15-Dec-13 00:04:26

Good MPs have a lot of sway in council offices. An elderly lady near us was having a horrendous time with the council and some botched repairs and damage caused by them and was being fobbed off and actually insulted when calling to complain. Once the local MP was involved it was all sorted for her within 2 weeks - the caseworker contacted a senior council officer who investigated personally.

It may be that the person handling your case at the council is just a jobsworth. I remember being appalled at the very narrow way some council workers approached cases - they gave exact info, no additional help or suggestions for workarounds. Others would bend over backwards to help, it all depended on how effective and motivated to help the worker was. So involving the MP would be a good start. But sometimes info given is just wrong - it may be that an exception could be made, in your circumstances, and the worker didn't know/remember that. Which is where Shelter can be really handy. A chap working for my husband was misinformed that he wasn't entitled to help, when actually with a young baby he was a priority case and very much was. Shelter were able to provide the info and a caseworker got on to the council for him and sorted it. So please don't just assume you've been told correctly - there is never any harm in looking for alternative routes. Always worth pushing for more info. They that don't ask, don't get for sure - if you ask, sometimes it will pay off.

ShinyBauble Sun 15-Dec-13 00:47:55

First things first, view the flat. Take it from there. And get the ball rolling on the non molestation order.

ShinyBauble Sun 15-Dec-13 00:49:09

And I agree with perfectstorm, your local MP could be a good resource for you. You could ask the refuge staff if they've had any dealings with him/her.

FarOverTheRainbow Sun 15-Dec-13 01:08:20

I had a good but stressful day today Jax, decided to go into town to try and finish my Christmas shopping and it was like a zoo confused think ill stick to asda and online now smile

How would I go about finding and contacting my local MP? And who would be local to me, where I am now or where I can from?

I view the flat Tuesday and they've made an appointment for me 3 hours later on the same day to sign the keys if I decide I want it so I need to move pretty fast and Mondays a crazy day too

Jux Sun 15-Dec-13 02:15:21

Here, my lovely. Just bung in your post code and it will sort out who your MP, MEP, local councillors, the lot I think you could write to both MPs - your old area and your current area.

Glad you got into town today, even though it was busy. I love all that bustle, but it must have been pretty overwhelming and stressful for you.

Everything is moving fast right now isn't it?

FarOverTheRainbow Sun 15-Dec-13 07:44:40

Thank you Jux, any ideas of how to explain/put my situation across to them?

I normally love Christmas and I get really into the festive activities and shopping but this year doesn't feel like Christmas in anyway. I'm trying so hard to get in the mood but there's no way I'm going to be able to have 5min peace and enjoy Christmas Day, I'm just going to worry all day hmm

teenybash7 Sun 15-Dec-13 08:58:06

Such good advice from springy about concentrating on the immediate rather than looking too far ahead and being overwhelmed.

When you write to MP, don't feel you need to explain all the background. Maybe just say you are in a refuge, want to move back 'home' and the council won't hold their offer till you feel safe enough to return. Say you are very frightened for your child and yourself. They will ask you questions to fill in the background.

Can you phone rather than writing as you need immediate help? Don't be put off if you don't find the right person straight away. As perfectstorm (I think) says, it so depends on who you speak to. Which is so wrong, I know, but true.

I so admire you and wish you happiness and peace - soon!!

mummytime Sun 15-Dec-13 09:40:53

When I have written to my MP (a pretty senior and busy Conservative) she has always investigated and got back to me pretty quickly. And I wouldn't even vote for her (well unless the only other party with a hope here put in a really nasty/hopeless person).

But, this used to be a Conservative safe seat until they put someone in here who: didn't live here and didn't care 2p for the constituency. He got voted out at the very next election.

springythatlldofornow Sun 15-Dec-13 13:11:36

I do agree about the council. Local authorities are a funny lot she says generously and it's a bit of a lottery whether who you speak to knows full rights and exceptions or cba : they do have a tendency to trot out the party line without taking the time to consider exceptional circumstances - I assume because some prospective council tenants can have a tendency to drag their feet for various reasons (eg 3 hours isn't long to consider whether someone is happy to live in a particular property..). I suppose they see it that it's housing and they don't have much truck with hesitation. Your situation is different and I would definitely push - eg Shelter - to dig deeper with this. I would also telephone your MP to get the ball rolling asap. You will probably leave a message (they should get back to you promptly; if not, call again [and again.. and again]) - so get something written down ready to recite as a voicemail.

Jux Sun 15-Dec-13 17:36:41

Phone and leave a message today. Send an email today. Include your adress and phone number and ask MPs to call you urgently. Both MPs I think.

Then call again tomorrow - both - and call again and again, until you get a response. Just outline what's happened, what the problem is and what you would like to happen; bullet points. Then you can just answer their questions and give details as they want them.

ShinyBauble Mon 16-Dec-13 16:13:05

I hope your meeting with the solicitor went well today smile

Jux Mon 16-Dec-13 22:40:30

How was the solicitor? Did you manage to get hold of either MP?

FarOverTheRainbow Tue 17-Dec-13 08:43:47

The solicitor was helpful. Very straight and to the point and of you didn't like it then tough. She said I can get an injunction and residential order but it takes 6 weeks for the funding to be in place then we make the application. She said he could make an application to the court in the mean time though. She said we can make him
Jump through all kinds of hoops before access is agreed including parenting classes, drug tests all
That hell have to pay for. She said as DD gets older he's going to want more access time and ill need to think about trying to space DDs BF out more. She said she wasn't telling me to stop just that questions will e asked when she's 2 or something and he wants over night access. She said there's nothing ican really do about him giving her to his mum angryand she told me I need to write a diary of all the abuse over te last 6 years and I said I don't fully understand it myself and she said that doesn't matter I can say that but I need to go over everything and that it might e good for me to do it with the support workers here and she said its good that I'm still in refuge and then I explained about the council she was like 'oooo that's a good area your lucky to get offered that you won't get anything like that again
Oooo' so WTF do I do? I'm hoping one of the MP will call back this morning I've left messages saying my viewing is today but nothing. Ill start phoning again soon

What do I do about this flat? I have to view as decide today hmm

LookingThroughTheFog Tue 17-Dec-13 09:01:53

Far, to be entirely honest, I would take the flat. The problem is, I come at this without having had an abusive relationship, and never having gone through the council at all, so I don't think my opinion matters too much.

The thing is, from what you've said, you want to be settled in your own place, and you might not get another offer again.

Once you're in your own place, you can arrange to have yourself protected from Ex. You can arrange any hand overs at a neutral place, you can have the police remove him from there.

I think, on a practical level, it's very, very unlikely that your MP will step in on your behalf, and even less likely that he will get back to you on time.

Obviously, I bow to anyone else's advice that comes along, but to my mind, having your own home sorted and without that 'where will I go in 2 months?' thing hanging over your head is quite important right now too.

TensionWheelsCoolHeels Tue 17-Dec-13 09:13:32

I agree with looking - you can still get a lot of help and support out with the refuge, albeit you do get a lot of help while there. If it's a good flat, nice area, and it means you are settled somewhere you can call home, you'll still have your solicitor, you can still source help and support with how to deal with your ex and his family. This could be a new start, somewhere safe for you and your DD. Give it a chance, and take someone like your mum with you to have a 2nd pair of eyes/opinion.

Ditto I have no experience of your situation so you can ignore my post too.

TeacupDrama Tue 17-Dec-13 09:13:52

I would take the flat if in a good area near good schools you don't want to be wishing you had taken it 6 weeks down the line

CustardoPaidforIDSsYFronts Tue 17-Dec-13 09:14:52

good luck today with whatever decision you make xx

FarOverTheRainbow Tue 17-Dec-13 09:49:42

Thinking what if I take it and it goes against me? I want it to e horrible so there's no choice but I'm
Scared of saying no and ended up in a hovel somewhere hmm so confused

She said there's nothing I can really do about him giving her to his mum

That is rather alarming. Could you print out your old thread under your old NN and show it to her? Is she aware of how sadistic your exMIL was to your DD?

Stay strong Far - and why aren't you sure about the flat? Do you have an address for it? Ask RL people around you what kind of area it is. To be honest even if it's a dodgy area, it doesn't really matter. Your DD won't be going to school for a few more years etc.

TensionWheelsCoolHeels Tue 17-Dec-13 11:11:49

Far, how can you taking this flat go against you? You have established enough to get legal aid because of his abusive behaviour. If he applies for contact meantime, before you get all the legal stuff in place, you can insist on this being only at a contact centre, where you don't have to see him, and his mum isn't allowed. Long term can be dealt with later. You need to focus on what you are dealing with now, make a decision on what you have in front of you and not keep looking at everything all at once. It will all be dealt with in time.

Remember you've spoken to your HV at several points, and she can support your insistence on supervised/supported contact for him only. You have police involvement supporting your version of his behaviour. Taking a flat, so you have a secure base for you and DD isn't something that will be held against you.

FarOverTheRainbow Tue 17-Dec-13 12:47:40

I've just had an email off his solicitor saying he's taking me to court for access and shared residence? WTF!!!
I'm freaking out

FarOverTheRainbow Tue 17-Dec-13 12:49:19

I knew I should of just put up with it all, now he's going to get her for days each week and she's going to be more subjected to there shit and abuse

DeckTheHallsWithBoughsOfHorry Tue 17-Dec-13 12:55:01

Fuck no you shouldn't.

Of course he's going to court for access. Not because he wants to see her, but because he wants to control and upset you, and pander to his horrendous mother.

Taking you to court doesn't mean he will win. Remember that. His repeated neglectful behaviour will definitely count against him!!

FarOverTheRainbow Tue 17-Dec-13 13:11:52

I knew he would go for access but shared resistencia?? What if he gets it? He's also requested to have her for 2 hours I Christmas Day. I'm so scared. If I just carried on he would of had her for 10 hours a week now he could get more.

mummytime Tue 17-Dec-13 13:18:34

Go and talk to people at the shelter. Do not believe he has won.

BTW my father fought for custody of me, he didn't win (he'd already abandoned 5 other children). Just because someone goes to court doesn't mean they have a hope of winning. You have evidence of his abuse.

FarOverTheRainbow Tue 17-Dec-13 13:26:40

There's no one here, all the staff have there's Christmas party today

TensionWheelsCoolHeels Tue 17-Dec-13 13:31:07

Far, remember all the people you have seen and spoken to through all of this. All that evidence you have over his behaviour. You can counter his application with an offer of supervised contact in a contact centre, based on his abusive behaviour and inability to properly care for your DD. You need to remember that just because he thinks he's entitled to x, it does not follow that he'll get it.

You have a solicitor, you speak to them and say you can consider contact, supervised, at a contact centre for x hours in response to his application. You gather your evidence - statements from police, HV, refuge etc. whoever you can to give you all the backing to show the court why you fled, why you have concerns over your ex and his parenting, and you justify why he needs to be supervised and kept apart from you particularly at hand overs etc.

Things will change in time, but you aren't dealing with your DD at aged 3 or 5, you have a small baby and she's utterly dependent on you. The court isn't going to let her go to him 3/4 days, just because he asks for it. He is showing his ignorance of what is in your DD's best interest if he thinks he'll get her half the time at this age, given that you have been her primary carer since birth.

He will get to see her but you can direct that initially so your DD gets the care she needs. He'll need to show he knows what her needs are when he has her, to justify any progression on that.

crabbyoldbat Tue 17-Dec-13 13:31:23

Call your solicitor.

Ask how he's going to breastfeed her on his days.

Seriously, the most he's likely to get at her age is a couple of hours each weekend and a couple of separate midweek hours. And that's if he's deemed a safe person, which he clearly isn't. There's no reason that he would get shared residence.

Don't fret - it'll be months before this gets there anyway. And they always seem to put it an outrageous request first, which they expect to get beaten down. Don't let this panic you.

Call you solicitor.

FarOverTheRainbow Tue 17-Dec-13 13:35:57

I've called her and forwarded the emails but she was with someone.

How long does it take for an immediate application to get the court?

It says that's he's a loving caring father and this has left him distraught angry loving fucking father, what loving father screams at a newborn baby to shut the fuck up because she's crying and then turns the radio up blaring so he can't hear her angry.

FarOverTheRainbow Tue 17-Dec-13 13:46:42

And I still have to decide what to do about this flat sad

TensionWheelsCoolHeels Tue 17-Dec-13 14:00:17

Far, think seriously about taking the flat. There is still a lot of help and support out there for you to tap into if you take the flat. Ideally, delaying moving will help you gain strength and support, but you can still get that if you move. Ask the refuge for details of any help you can access for once you move out and you'll see there is help for you after you move. I think you are placing more importance on the comment about you staying than you are on the long term security you could get with this flat for you and your DD. You can still get help even when you move. If you don't take the flat, but stay for the support etc then there's no guarantee you'll get another flat like this.

FarOverTheRainbow Tue 17-Dec-13 15:37:37

I'm so torn. I know people say think about one thing at a time but how can I? Each decision I make will effect the next. I'm so so confused as to top it of he's texted again "how's my little girl tell her I miss her so much wish her a happy christmas I have no clue about my own child"

Why is he still texting me? I've spoken to my phone provider and I'm getting anew phone today

Hissy Tue 17-Dec-13 15:37:38

Calm! Calm! Calm!

Nothing is going to happen today, tomorrow or even this year.

Of course he'll try all the above. Expect it.

If he were a reasonable man he'd not have driven you into a refuge, now would he?

You have armies of people on your side. He has bluster.

Don't panic. That's. What he wants you to do.

Nothing will happen today. So focus on the important matter at hand, getting yourself potentially housed.

Nothing else matters today.

Breathe! It will be ok in the end.

If it's not ok yet, then it's not the end, ok?

FarOverTheRainbow Tue 17-Dec-13 15:40:38

How long will it take? An immidate court application?

Is getting housed that important or is staying there? Will it stand up
For me more staying then leaving? Will they st you can't e that
Scared of him
To go into a refuge and then move back weeks later?

I've got a feeling this is all going to bite me on the arse

Hissy Tue 17-Dec-13 15:42:22

No decision about the house will affect a pile full of wank from him.

Just because he sends an email demanding stuff doesn't mean he gets it.

What is key is your focus! Focus on what's important, and that's you and your living arrangements.

He can wait until you are ready to deal with him, until the team full of witnesses to his abuse can be grouped and coordinated and then he won't know what's hit him.

Don't forget, the starting point of any disagreement is 50/50. He's told a solicitor a pile full of shite. He can't back any of it up.

You can absolutely back your position up.

Hissy Tue 17-Dec-13 15:44:56

Call shelter for advice.

Call WA for advice, you're not helpless, so get asking for information!

Côme on, you can do this! ((hug))

TensionWheelsCoolHeels Tue 17-Dec-13 15:47:28

No - being in a refuge is never a long term option. The timing of getting a new flat is not something you have any control over. Being away from him, being secure, having a settled place to live is absolutely something that is a priority and does not negate the fact that you had to go into a refuge to get away from your ex and his family. How long do you think is normal for anyone to stay in a refuge? It's always a temporary option, and it won't count against you if you take the flat. Just make sure you get all the help and support you can where you are now, and you get details of where/how to continue to get help when you move.

ShinyBauble Tue 17-Dec-13 16:43:08

No, because you won't be going back to your Mum's where he knows how to find you. You'll be moving into your own place and he doesn't know where that is. I hope you like the place.

ChasedByBees Tue 17-Dec-13 17:02:18

Moving away to a flat won't negate the fact that you had to escape him, not at all. This is a hard time Far but you'll get through it. ((Hugs))

passedgo Tue 17-Dec-13 17:55:12

I replied earlier on but lost it. As Hissy says, stay calm!

This is why you are in a refuge and not sitting in an empty council house waiting for a knock on the door.

I would carry on as if you want the council house, accept it and then do what the heck you can to pay for the rent on the house while you are staying in the refuge. It doesn't have to be an either/or situation. I know money will be tight but it will only be for a few weeks.

perfectstorm Tue 17-Dec-13 19:26:32

It takes about 6 weeks for an initial hearing before a judge, so that will be end of January. At that hearing the judge sees if you can reach agreement, which you won't, and you offer (I imagine, guided by your solicitor) contact in a contact centre. It takes months more to get a full hearing at which he argues his case and you argue yours. Christmas is a week away so he can demand what he likes; you're in a refuge because of him and there is no way he can safely have contact with your baby. Don't worry about court, honestly. They are there to look out for your baby's interests and you have ample evidence of his abuse, harassment, intimidation and lack of knowledge of her routine, and your solicitor will make that case for you. You just have to give all the information.

I should add that in the absence of abuse, you're expected to ask for mediation in the first instance - there is even a box on the court documentation when applying for an order asking if you've tried it, and if the answer is no, most judges will send you back to try it before seeing them again. As he knows you don't have the money for solicitors and does not know you have legal aid arguably making court the first threat is a new form of intimidation. The fact he's demanding time over Christmas, a week away, certainly implies that as no court could create a contact order that soon unless it was an emergency enforcement (no existing contact order makes that impossible). He's just trying to scare you. The letter is just a letter, it's not actually any evidence he's even applied to a court, is it.

Courts DO NOT disrupt a child's care arrangements unless they have a really, really good reason, and the younger a child is the more that applies. They are not about to take a baby away from her mum to give to dad half the week when Mum is in a flipping refuge because of Dad - I mean, seriously. Think about it.

Far, she's a baby. You're in a women's refuge. There is a police report that you and your daughter had to be escorted past him while he sat in a car outside your home to intimidate you, a witness statement from your friend that he tried to break into the house, one from your mum saying he was slowly driving past hers after you asked him to leave you alone, and text messages abusing you before and after you said you wanted no further contact and showing he had no idea what her daily routine was. That's on top of your own statements of his prolonged abuse of you and his mother's and his abuse of your daughter. His solicitor will ask for whatever he tells her to - the judge doesn't have to pay attention to it. Please don't be scared by this, it was pretty predictable. The reality is that you can insist contact is in a contact centre until the full hearing, which won't be for months, and they can't actually force anything else without your consent until that stage.

Talk to your solicitor and see what they say, but stop feeling like he can dictate what will happen. I know he's made you feel that way for a long time, but it's bullshit. He can't force a judge to do anything and no judge is going to let him continue to harass and bully you, when you're a good mother and you are in a refuge and in receipt of legal aid because of his abuse and intimidation. Stop feeling like he can do what he likes and you need to placate and pander to him. All you need to do is think about what best serves your daughter's interests and keeps her safe. That simple, and so far, you're doing a great job - just as well, really. He isn't.

perfectstorm Tue 17-Dec-13 19:33:21

And it won't go against you whether you take the flat or not, so do what you think is best for you and your daughter.

Trust your solicitor. Talk to them, be open and full about the history and your concerns for your dd. You want him to have contact, you just want it to be safe. That's all. So please don't be scared of him - it's what he wants and what he is used to, because it means he gets his own way, but his behaviour to date has not been that of a doting daddy - he told you to move into a homeless shelter with the daughter he is so devoted to, remember? Seriously, he is not looking father of the year!

perfectstorm Tue 17-Dec-13 19:36:24


This, this and this again. It's about his feelings/needs, not hers. And that will be noted.

FarOverTheRainbow Tue 17-Dec-13 19:40:30

I know it's not a log term option I just wanted to get everything with the courts sorted out first before I moved.

The flat is really nice and its a really good size, the back garden is private and could easily fit in a shed, table and chairs and a big 6ft trampoline with space for toys. The women showing me round was lovely and I explained he situation and she said that the coucil are 100% private on who is in what properties and my details would never be given out, she said I'm really lucky to e offered a place like that and they never come up and go like gold and of
In a years time
I got the council help me again its not going to be anything as decent as that hmm

DollyTwat Tue 17-Dec-13 19:48:16

Far I think you'll regret it if you don't take it
It's nice, private, it's yours for as long as you want it

TensionWheelsCoolHeels Tue 17-Dec-13 19:58:07

Speak to the people at the refuge and get information on the help you can get when you move out. If you know what's there for that stage of this whole process, it'll help you make the decision. If its nice, good size, good area, you will regret not taking it if your options aren't anywhere near as good in a few months after you've had all the help/support etc from the refuge. When do you have to let them know? And how long after that til you move in?

DeckTheHallsWithBoughsOfHorry Tue 17-Dec-13 20:18:13

Flat sounds great. Good luck.

FarOverTheRainbow Tue 17-Dec-13 20:26:52

I have to let them know by 11am tomorrow and will most likely be told I have to sign for it the same day. What I'm hoping is because the council give you free rent weeks there won't be any rent due on huge flat until 6th January and when you leave refuge you normally get granted 28 days so you can claim housing benefit for 28 days for 2 properties so I'm hoping that they say I can sign for the property, decide over new year depending on his behaviour if I'm happy to move back to the area sand then if I do I can either start my 28 days from 6 January for pay the rent myself for another week or two on huge flat then start my 28 days so I still have possibly 6-8weeks in the refuge with the support but then the otption of moving out then too and hopefully finding will be in place for the injunctions too.

Somehow I really don't think I'm going to be allowed to do this though sad

DollyTwat Tue 17-Dec-13 20:46:26

Far please go for the flat
You can prevent him coming near you, you need somewhere long term for you and dd

TensionWheelsCoolHeels Tue 17-Dec-13 20:49:42

Far, at the moment your ex has no idea where you are. He won't know where your new home will be. You are about to change mobile to be able to screen/filter/block his texts. He can then only contact you via your solicitor. For the time it'll take to get the injunctions etc in place, he won't be in a position to do anything about knowing where you are. I know you feel safe and supported there, and you are naturally worried about moving on, but the immediate fear you have, of him stalking/intimidating you, breaching your safe haven - I think it's very unlikely you'll need to worry about that. You can maintain your contact address as being via your mum for as long as you need to. Ask you solicitor about how you can go about keeping your new address completely private, so that he cannot know where you live. Make sure any/all authorities you contact are aware of the importance of not giving out any personal information and get passwords set on all your accounts/dealings.

There is a lot you can do to maintain your safety/security when you move, and hopefully the refuge can advise you on all of that.

Don't let this chance pass you by.

perfectstorm Tue 17-Dec-13 21:00:05

Don't see why you wouldn't be allowed that at all, if it's normal for the council to offer those free rent weeks, and you're allowed to overlap for 28 days. That seems a really positive compromise - you have a nice new place to move to, and you have 6 weeks grace in the refuge to benefit from the support and sense of sanctuary there, too. Don't tell the council it will depend on his behaviour, just say yes you want it and sign. If he behaves badly enough that you can't move in, then they will just have to let it to someone else - you're allowed that 28 days overlap so you can explain why you need to break the contract and as you say, someone else will leap at the chance of it. I don't see why that isn't doable.

Also bear in mind that unless his solicitor is totally stupid, she will have to tell him that he is risking his volume of contact with dd if he steps out of line again with you. Up until now he's been his mummy's spoiled little prince who is allowed to behave any way he wants without consequence, and so he's bullied, threatened, stolen from and abused you without seeing any reason why he shouldn't. That isn't how a court will see it, and any good solicitor will warn him that he has fucked up badly already and any more abuse from him will make that worse. You're starting this contact hearing offering contact in a safe setting with a background of needing state funded legal aid and a place in a women's refuge because of him, and any decent lawyer will impress upon him that this is not a position of strength for him, and he needs to be Mr Perfect, going forwards. Hassling you will not help his case. And you were going to talk to the solicitor about a non-molestation order, weren't you - how was that going?

You have the offer of a lovely new home, that (being council) nobody can take away from you, and which you can make safe with advice from the shelter and the police. He doesn't know where it is and has no way of finding out, especially if you get a new car, as mentioned. You have a solicitor now to help protect you, and you should be able to get social services support if you're in a shelter as well. These are all really good things, Far, so you can protect your daughter and offer her a lovely new future moving onwards. He can huff and puff but he doesn't even know where your new home will be - he can't blow it down. You're safe and sound where you are and you can make the new place safe and sound, too, with advice on how to do that. It could be a real home for you and your dd, and you can from the sounds of it take that time to be supported in the refuge first, too. You're doing great.

FarOverTheRainbow Tue 17-Dec-13 21:39:42

I really really hope they let me do that but I don't think they will, surely if I have another place to live I'm just wasting a valuable refuge space

springythatlldofornow Tue 17-Dec-13 23:02:13

They wouldn't be offering it if they didn't think you need it - so, yes, it's a valuable space for you .

Because of the circumstances, it's not always possible to move in the blink of an eye. Abuse agencies/refuges recognise that moving onto the next stage takes careful handling and doesn't happen overnight. I assume this is why they work hand-in-hand with the council, recognising that a woman coming out of a refuge needs some leeway eg 28 days.

It all sounds good to me. Take everything you are offered - you need it, it's in place for people like you and dd.

I'm so glad to hear that the place you have been offered is lovely. As perfectstorm says, you will be able to make it safe. You have a lot of support to that end, lovely.

(btw all that stuff he's sent through his solicitor is a lot of hot air. Don't take it seriously. Remember he's got his sister giving him crappo legal advice to put the wind up you - and she's probably advising him to throw his weight around. Dear, dear - let him try throwing his weight around in the courtroom; the judge will shrivvle him down to the size of a peanut. Which is what he is.)

passedgo Wed 18-Dec-13 09:23:17

Just say yes to the flat, if a problem arises later on, you can come back here for advice. Just accept the flat and be honest with them if they ask you questions.

Try to work out what the shortfall will be if you do have to pay (after you've signed for it). But stay in the refuge for now and take advice from people that have been through this before.

FarOverTheRainbow Wed 18-Dec-13 10:01:40

If I accept my 28 days start now

passedgo Wed 18-Dec-13 10:11:40

That's OK isn't it?

tripper20 Wed 18-Dec-13 10:13:47

Please take the flat. You will feel better and more relaxed when you can be in your OWN home, with your own stuff around you. You can make it secure, and let the police know so you can alert them immediately if he decides to call.

It is not everything, but believe me, having a safe roof over your head makes all the difference. It will be a big weight off your mind. You have so many things being thrown at you at the moment, and too many decisions to make all at once, you need to be able to stand back and prioritise. Not everything has to be dealt with immediately, but unfortunately this does.

Good luck fsmile

ShinyBauble Wed 18-Dec-13 10:43:56

You should accept it. Imagine how gutted you'd be if the only places that came up after were grotty mouldy bedsits. Accept the nice place, and then you have the best part of a month to transition.

FarOverTheRainbow Wed 18-Dec-13 13:02:40

I have accepted it but te refuge are delaying my 28 days to see how I feel over Christmas being back at home and if he kicks off then I can go back to the refuge and give the flat keys back

TensionWheelsCoolHeels Wed 18-Dec-13 14:09:45

That sounds like a good compromise Far. You can make this flat a safe haven with some simple precautions so take all the advice you can over how to do that. Make sure you stick to contact only via your sols, and take all the help and support you can get while you are still there.

perfectstorm Wed 18-Dec-13 16:58:44

I'm glad the refuge are working with you to ensure you get the support you need and deserve. Hopefully they and the police and your solicitor can set things up so you feel at ease and safe in the new place. And it is yours - not a short term rental, not owned by anyone who has their own agenda, your own lovely new place.

Also hope you've had good news with your chosen solicitor and can start the ball rolling there, too.

Jux Wed 18-Dec-13 17:02:01

Good news, Far. The police (and Council?) can arrange for various things to be installed to add protection and help you feel safer there.

I would still talk to a solicitor about pursuing a non-molestation order to that too.

FarOverTheRainbow Wed 18-Dec-13 19:18:12

i do feel like a weight has been lift of my shoukders by knowing I have the flat there if I want it. I sign for the keys tomorrow and refuge said they will see if theres a thingbin the area that xome out and check the propety and see how to makenit safer and more s3cure and then donthe work for free

springythatlldofornow Thu 19-Dec-13 00:05:04

Great news, well done fsmile

Jux Thu 19-Dec-13 08:30:11

Way to go, Far! That all sounds so positive.

FarOverTheRainbow Thu 19-Dec-13 16:30:32

the flat is all signed for smile I do feel good about it but just worried about christmas. I dont want to feel to good in case I end uo having to give the keys back. going to take my mum uo there on the weekend ane show her it

took DD out to see santa the and a wonderland things today and she loved it so had a really good day

FarOverTheRainbow Thu 19-Dec-13 16:44:15

aand i have a new mobile number

Delurking to say - that's brilliant, well done you! You've come so far in such a short time!

Hissy Thu 19-Dec-13 19:00:57

smile happy face!

whitsernam Thu 19-Dec-13 19:10:08

Merry Christmas! This looks like the start of a great year for you. I really hope so!

Divinity Thu 19-Dec-13 19:39:34

Great news!

< Snoopy dance >

FarOverTheRainbow Thu 19-Dec-13 20:07:30

Thank you smilethanks.

I hope 2014 will be a good year but I think it might get worse before it gets better but I just want to enjoy Christmas with my little pudding smile

springythatlldofornow Thu 19-Dec-13 23:34:38

Aww <goes soppy>

Day at a time, lovely. Enjoy Christmas and put all the shit in the background for now.

Merry Christmas to you and dd fsmile

FarOverTheRainbow Fri 20-Dec-13 08:53:47

thats what I'm trying to do, I took DD to a winter wonderland thing and I have a brilliant day and she loved it! it was special and now I feel christmassy for the first time grin

mummytime Fri 20-Dec-13 11:40:04

Do just be careful taking your Mum there, you know he was watching her place, I would hate for him to have even a hint of where your new place is earlier than necessary.
Have a great Christmas!

teenybash7 Fri 20-Dec-13 18:52:52

I'll be thinking about you and hoping, hoping, hoping all goes well for you. As you say, it may still get worse before it's all over, but you are an amazingly strong woman and you deserve a peaceful life.

FarOverTheRainbow Fri 20-Dec-13 20:51:53

Thank youthanks thanks

the refuge staff gave all the kids big black sacks full of presents ntoday for christmas I was so surprised, I cant believe how much people donate to places so so generous

DeckTheHallsWithBoughsOfHorry Fri 20-Dec-13 20:55:02

You've reminded me that some of us did a collection together for our local refuge this time last year. It was hard to grasp where it would gave gone but now I understand better.

FarOverTheRainbow Fri 20-Dec-13 23:02:01

its not something I ever would have thought of

ive been speaking to one of the other women tonight here who i get along with well and we were talking about our pasts and I remembered so much stuff that happened but id forgotten about sad which isnt a nice feeling. its nice having someone close by that you feel comfortable to talk too

FarOverTheRainbow Sat 21-Dec-13 11:28:24

I come back to see my mum and do the Christmas food shop and I just dropped my mum off and he drove past her and stared then 5 min later come back and got out his car approached my mum asking why ive stopped him see'ing his chikd she told him to go away and he ignored her and asked again andnshe told him to go away and walkee off. shes quite shook up theres no way hes going to leave us alone over christmas he.wasnliterraly minutes behind me

Hissy Sat 21-Dec-13 11:45:03

Your mum has to report this to 101 NOW!

You both need to get some protection from the courts!

This could be deemed as indirect contact to you iirc.

The fact that he's menacing and accusing her is very telling. A normal man would be at least saying sorry, how can we fix this.

Your ex is a shitty little abuser and he'll only ever get worse.

Your comment about talking with the other women there is why I always advocate doing the freedom programme in person, as you get to hear how much you've all had in common.

I always find that when we see the shock and horror of others at stories that we've normalised, and they see our reaction to ours, it helps us see the extent to the abuse to which we've been subjected.

It's frightening at first, but helps us learn to feel sympathy for ourselves. Note I said feel sympathy for ourselves not sorry for ourselves. BIG difference.

Do you think he saw you and waited until you'd gone to target your mum? You know what that means, don't you?

That seeing your dd is not what he wants, it's control of you, your mum and whoever else. He's not spared a single thought for your dd. This is all about him.

He's dangerous. Your mum has to call 101. She does this to protect herself, and it will actually help you too, as. It will go a long way in court that he did this. It will keep your dd safe.

Hissy Sat 21-Dec-13 11:47:13

You need to report this, and his car reg, he needs to be on the radar of the police.

What if he knows what car you're driving, what if he follows you?

You need help today to review your security.

Oh dear Far, your poor mum ... she should not have to worry about being accosted in the street by your ex.

It sounds to me like harassment and intimidation. Is there anyone at the refuge you can seek advice about this?

Good to hear you've got a friend at the refuge - being one to normally keep my thoughts and emotions to myself, I've found it hugely helpful to have a RL friend in a similar position to myself with a dickhead ex - we support each other. Try to keep in contact with her when you move out smile.

X posted with Hissy - and she's absolutely spot on.

perfectstorm Sat 21-Dec-13 12:39:11

He's been told to leave you alone, and he's now stalking the house he will assume you're living in and harassing your mother.

Have you got a good solicitor yet? I absolutely agree you need your mum to call 101 and report this, but the solicitor also needs to take steps, I think. He is completely riding roughshod over the situation and you are having to be in a refuge to get the hell away from him - horrible. A non-molestation order will include indirect contact and that means he can't hassle your mother.

Interesting that he wasn't interested in asking how to resolve things, as others have said, nor in asking how your dd was. Just demanding to have an explanation on why a man who bullies, intimidates, plays with sharp knives in a small room while having heated rows with you, tries to break in and steal and refuses to return dd unless you pay him in expensive electricals you have the receipts for (and repeatedly returns her soaked in her own crap and pee, no less, after dumping her all day to be cared for in his absence by a woman who likes it when she cries) can't fathom why he is no longer allowed contact until such contact can be made safe.

A good solicitor would be able to write an interesting position statement on this individual. Have you had any luck in instructing one yet?

Try not to worry. You knew he'd be this way, and you're safe and sound in a refuge right now and then in a flat he knows nothing about after that. But I really do think a new car is called for, and you shouldn't drop your mum off at her place for the moment - you need the legal protections in place.

FarOverTheRainbow Sat 21-Dec-13 14:07:17

my mum phoned the police and they said befause he wasnt threantening theres nothing they can do but theyve put it in the system so if she calls again they no what's happened and in case she needs to call the police at anytime they'll be right out

im back at refuge now couldn't get all the shopping done hut didnt feel comfortable or safe being there so come straught back. I'm worried about christmas now too sad

FarOverTheRainbow Sat 21-Dec-13 14:40:30

I feel so drainedsad

perfectstorm Sat 21-Dec-13 15:51:56

Have you got a solicitor yet, Far? S/he can apply for a non-molestation order and then there will be something the police can do if he goes anywhere near you and yours. A solicitor will help you protect yourself, dd and your family really effectively.

Don't be scared. You're in a safe place and you have people around you who will look after you. Yes, it's draining but remember how much worse things were a couple of weeks ago - you were in his parents' house and he had a key and knew exactly where to locate you. Now, he has no idea, and in a way every nasty thing he does is another to write up on that position statement in explanation of why he needs contact via a contact centre.

Jux Sat 21-Dec-13 19:14:50

If I were approached by someone near my house, who wouldn't go away when I asked them, or leave me alone when I asked them to, then I would feel threatened, intimidated, and bullied. Because they would be threatening, intimidating and bullying me.

FarOverTheRainbow Sat 21-Dec-13 20:55:25

i have a solcitor that the refuge sorted out but tbh im not completely comfortable with her. when I saw her she seemed grest and very honest weather you liked it or not and we agreed on what was going to haooen next and she told me she had to apply for the funding for a non molestation order and it would take 6 weeks to come through and in the mean time I have to wrote a diary and to get the refuge to help me with it and then she.sends me an letter outlining what was said but in the what happens next bit she said thay I haven't provided her with the diary she asked for my appointment was 3 days ago so she can't aoply for the funding yet so there's nothing she can do at the minute and im only entitled to 86 pound in legal aid

she also told me need to think about cutting DD Ddown on her BF because of the courts will soon say she has to see her donor for longer then 5 hours a time. looking back at it now I dont feel.comoeltely comfortable with her and I dont trust her 100% to fight for me so im looking at the links storm has posted

FarOverTheRainbow Sat 21-Dec-13 21:00:30

im safe now but what about over christmas? what about moving back and into this flat?

ShinyBauble Sat 21-Dec-13 21:39:51

Don't worry. Get the diary written - your threads will come in great for that! Go back to the start of your first thread, all incidents since the split are dated. And jot down anything from before then as you go.

Just get it delivered as soon as possible and then she can apply for the funding. His court case should take quite a while to come through.

springythatlldofornow Sat 21-Dec-13 21:40:22

I wish perfectstorm was represneing you as your lawyer! is that inappropriate I agree with you that your current solictor doesn't seem to be getting the true picture here - that he is a threatening bully, who is only interested in himself and getting his way, NOT interested in you and, especially, dd's welfare at all.

I just don't get how the powers that be aren't seeing the bigger picture. They say ex wasn't threatening to your mum but, in the bigger picture, with all that's gone before, he is being threatening. This, from perfectstorm, sums it up this is the bigger picture:


Please do get the non-molestation order in place as soon as you can.

So glad you have somewhere safe to go - what a relief. I agree to not drive to your mum's house or to anywhere near there for the timebeing. And get a different car if you can.

FarOverTheRainbow Sat 21-Dec-13 21:50:41

i cant get a different car this side of christmas now but as soon as the new year hits I will do

im in most the day tomorrow so im going to get the diary done then and one of the ladies will go through it Monday for me

the refuge think that if I go mums for christmas I shouldn't hide my car because I need a true feel of what he . will do when he see's it to help decide if moving back is the right or safe thing for me to do but I should.make.sure that me and dd are locked inside safe at all times and to call the police as soon as I see him.

springysofa Sun 22-Dec-13 06:19:31

Hmmm <strokes chin> - I suppose they know what they're saying, have the experience etc. It's a bit like bait, really - maybe they want to draw him out so he shoots himself squarely in the foot. Yes, maybe it's better to get it over with, test the waters, before you move out of the refuge. Courage, girl!

FarOverTheRainbow Sun 22-Dec-13 20:45:07

I do think that I need to leave my car outside to see what he will do. I'm doubting if it's the right thing to move back but I really want to move to the flat but then I think if he sees me with DD before this order is in place and he takes her there's nothing I can do and is it worth taking that risk for a flat?

I'm really confused at the minute about it but then I want to go looking for wall paper and house things in huge sales sad

Are we placing bets on what we think will happen over Christmas? I've got £5 on he'll knock the door in tears with a present begging to see DD

passedgo Sun 22-Dec-13 20:45:28

I agree that it's best not to hide everything, while you are with your mother you have support and a witness if he appears. This is why I suggested that you keep your existing phone, so that you have a record of his behaviour, all this will be useful, whether in court, or whether to build up a picture for you to reflect back on later.

passedgo Sun 22-Dec-13 20:47:13


Good to visualise the scene, if that's what he does, turn up at the door, you can be prepared. What will you do?

FarOverTheRainbow Sun 22-Dec-13 23:51:31

I still have my other ohone its just switched off in the draw

if he turns up at my mums the door will be locked and she'll tell him to go awqy through the door and if he doesn't ill call 999 straight away. if I was in the car and he followed me id keep driving if he kept following me id call 999. if I bumped into him in asda or somewhere id keeo walking and sct like he doesnt exist if he tried to speak id say go away if he tried to touch DD id scream at the took of my lungs help to get some kind ot attention so he cant try and snatch her

FarOverTheRainbow Mon 23-Dec-13 01:12:11

I have a new phone and can get use to the key board that's why my spelling is so bad blush ill start proof reading

passedgo Mon 23-Dec-13 09:00:55

Don't worry about typos far.

So you have a plan, that's the main thing. Now that's in your head, hopefully you can relax over Christmas knowing that you will be safe because you have thought it all through. If something does happen you have the law behind you, anything he does outside of that means he could get charged and punished. We don't live in the Wild West, people that break the law will get punished.

Not sure if I missed something earlier but did he ever threaten to snatch her?

FarOverTheRainbow Mon 23-Dec-13 11:51:11

yeh he has said before he'll keep her and hell decide when he'll bring her back and it will be when he's good and ready
I do think if he saw us in the street he would try and take her

FarOverTheRainbow Mon 23-Dec-13 14:57:27

im actually excited for Christmas today and giving DD presents from santa smile

ShinyBauble Mon 23-Dec-13 15:34:26

I hope you have a really nice (and peaceful!) Christmas, Far fsmile

FarOverTheRainbow Mon 23-Dec-13 16:00:13

I think hes clicked that hes not going to see her on chrisrmas day so today hes had a message printed to her innthe locwl paper with how much daddy misses his princess

ShinyBauble Mon 23-Dec-13 16:15:11

Manipulative, passive-aggressive shit. As if a one year old will be reading the paper!

FarOverTheRainbow Mon 23-Dec-13 16:29:26

he thinks this proves how much he loves his little girl and me being an evil bitch wont let him see her, why cant he actually put this much effort inyo actually being a parent

HissymasJumper Mon 23-Dec-13 16:34:29

I also have a pathological hatred of those that call their girls princesses.

How is she his princess?

when he leaves her to rot in her nappy? Every time he has her? leaves her with a witch that hurts her and makes her cry and gets pleasure from it?

How is she his princess when he bullies her mother, steals her things under threat, harasses her GM and boots you both out of your home with (if down to him) Sweet FA to your names?

He's had that published to use it in court, mark my words. It's (yet again) all about him and not about her.

Perhaps he calls her princess cos he can't actually remember what her name is?

Divinity Mon 23-Dec-13 17:00:10

Yes I'm sure he will cut that out as 'proof' of his love for his princess. And if this has an effect of making you feel guilty and upset so you let him get what he wants, or making you feel like crap then so much the better.

Ignore his histrionics Far its all fluff and nonsense.

FarOverTheRainbow Mon 23-Dec-13 17:32:57

it's made me feel angry tbh, its all just for show. if he out half the effort into actually being a parent instead of putting on a front then he wouldn't be to bad tbh but he doesnt care about her. he hasnt asked me to see her on christmas he hasn't asked if ehe needs anything he hasbt offered anything

I was feeling positive about christmas and hes just pissed me off

perfectstorm Mon 23-Dec-13 18:33:36

God, he's a loser. So he can splash out on personal ads no baby can read, but not in paying a penny for her nappies - let alone go to the effort of changing them? Huh. hmm

Just focus on Christmas and your little girl. He can huff and he can puff, but the days he could blow your house down are gone.

DeckTheHallsWithBoughsOfHorry Mon 23-Dec-13 18:44:07

Stay angry. Anger is useful.

springysofa Mon 23-Dec-13 19:04:56

What a loser.

FarOverTheRainbow Mon 23-Dec-13 19:27:24

hes now been to my mums and posted a card for DD saying have a great day my princess I think about you all the time and nedt year youll be at daddys house I love you so much


ShinyBauble Mon 23-Dec-13 20:24:48

Keep the card, don't destroy it. A judge will see the real message in that, a subtle threat that he will be calling the shots by next year.

And he can place messages in the paper every day, it will mean nothing to a court. If that was on his sisters 'legal' advice, shes's a moron.

FarOverTheRainbow Mon 23-Dec-13 21:22:38

Surely this has to be seen as harressment? I've told him not to contact me in any way but he continually has and does

ShinyBauble Mon 23-Dec-13 22:40:35

I'm not sure to be honest, maybe someone else will know. But technically he's addressing his daughter, not you - even though you know he really is talking to you. I would keep the card, and the paper clipping, and mention it to your solicitor next time you see her.

perfectstorm Tue 24-Dec-13 00:04:27

She's not old enough to understand the words, far less read them. It's blindingly obvious who all this drama is aimed at. And it isn't your daughter.

perfectstorm Tue 24-Dec-13 00:06:24

And yes, the legal definition of harassment is to contact someone on two occasions or more when you know or ought to know that such contact is unwelcome. The fact you've needed a flipping police escort due to his intimidation in order to enter your own home before, and have TOLD him to leave you alone, makes this nonsense fairly open and shut really.

Again: you need a good solicitor, who is very experienced in cases of domestic abuse.

passedgo Tue 24-Dec-13 01:31:32

Yuk, this is reallt unpleasant now. The Princess thing is odd because it is elevating her into something she's not, but something, to fight over. Suddenly she is precious. But I don't like it because he's not seeing her for who she really is, a vulnerable tiny child that needs security and a happy Mummy.

He is in a strange way distancing himsel from her by making this announcement. This is evidence of his twisted personality.

FarOverTheRainbow Tue 24-Dec-13 02:21:55

the lady here at refuge said it reads as if hes wrting it to someone who has died and its like a memorial thing

this is driving me mad he seems to do a few things in one go like the day his solictor emails me he texts. he outs an announcement in the paper and posts a card, im surprised it wasnt recorded delivery so he could prove to the court how much he loves her and proof he sent it

I do actually hate him. I nevee thought I could love someone so much and in the space of 3m be disgusted with them

teenybash7 Tue 24-Dec-13 07:07:28

Far, I hate him too, and I don't say that lightly. But I do think it will all help in the end to prove he's unstable, threatening and a danger to you and your daughter. Thread by thread he'll make a rope and hang himself.

springysofa Tue 24-Dec-13 07:35:08

Im hesitating to say this but re the Christmas day thing (going to your mums and parking your car outside) - are you up to it? yy I know it'll flush him out - I think we can guarantee it'll be an almighty ding dong. Perhaps alert the police so they're ready to act quickly when he kicks off so he spends Christmas day in the cells

Glad to hear you hate him! Next you'll see what a pathetic loser he is and you'll laugh at him. I know you know you need a solicitor, but you have to feel comfortable with the solicitor you have and so far you have not (didn't one tell you to start weaning so he can have access? Cheers, solicitor! angry ). Perhaps interview some more solicitors next year?

ChasedByBees Tue 24-Dec-13 08:51:20

Stay strong Far. He is a complete loser isn't he? Ignore all the passive aggressive posturing. He may think it proves he loves his daughter but I think it had the opposite effect. It's clearly for show - we can see it, you can see it and the refuge can see it. Keep it, but ignore it and enjoy Christmas.

bunchoffives Tue 24-Dec-13 09:29:17

Commonly, Christmas is the time abusers are at their worst. You may get to see that tomorrow. I know it's horrible, but in the long-term this may be the best thing for you and DD, Far. If he kicks off and the police can caution or arrest him, he'll have done all the work of a non-mol court hearing for you.

Do not weaken Far because it's Christmas. It's one day. You have to think about what's going to be in the best interest of DD and you for the years going forward. You are doing so well. Keep going. Keep strong.

passedgo Tue 24-Dec-13 09:38:08

Interesting, far, that the refuge woman sees it like that. I agree that he is grieving and he will probably now go through the various stages. It will make him feel more and more distant from his dd and from you which is perhaps deep down what he wants. Some men would rather have nothing to do with their children than to watch them grow and flourish without them.

Very very sad, and childish.

FarOverTheRainbow Tue 24-Dec-13 09:38:19

I think its best if I do go to my mums I need to know how ill feel to be back for a few days. I might hate it and like being further away.

whatever happens tomorrow will happen. I know DD is safe at my mums ans theres no way he will get near her so I don't care about the rest. if he smashes my car then I have insureance and the proof I nees to stay away and hooefully a order to.make him stay away and a criminal record

there isnt a hope in hells chance of mt weakening tomottow he isn't getting near her. in a werid way I want him to kick off so I cqn call the oolice and get protection in place but whay will be will be

passedgo Tue 24-Dec-13 09:42:18

And yes, do let him publicly make him an arse of himself as bunchoffives says. Have a good Chrismas and stay strong. Next year will be very different.

bunchoffives Tue 24-Dec-13 09:52:48

Wow Far, you sound really sorted and strong.

I hope you and family have a good day in spite of ex. fsmile

BadgerFace Tue 24-Dec-13 10:16:07

Far you are doing so well! I wondered if there was anywhere near your mum's where there was CCTV in the street so you could park there so was a recording should your car suffer any damage?

Keep strong and have a wonderful day tomorrow with your mum and gorgeous DD.

springysofa Tue 24-Dec-13 12:12:22

grieving my arse. He's not grieving for his daughter, if he's grieving for anything at all it's his loss of control.

Glad to hear you're sorted about Christmas day. I too think it will be better in the long run if he comes out all bells and whistles on the day so it's quite clear what he's really about (not what he says he's about ie missing his daughter) and he can get nabbed for it.

stickysausages Tue 24-Dec-13 14:18:03

Thinking of you both thanks Hope you have as nice a day as possible at your mum's & the new year brings much happier times smile

FarOverTheRainbow Tue 24-Dec-13 17:01:13

I hope everyone has a great Christmas thank you all for your support if I have any drama tomorrow ill wait till boxing dqy to update lol

Jux Tue 24-Dec-13 18:25:04

Good luck.

Have a happy Christmas. fsmile

Mmmbacon Tue 24-Dec-13 18:26:09

Merry christmas, I hope you have a lovely day with your little girl,

perfectstorm Tue 24-Dec-13 18:59:02

Happy Christmas, Far. I hope you and your beautiful DD have a lovely one. fsmile

YetAnotherFucker Tue 24-Dec-13 20:55:32

Hope you and your family have a wonderful Christmas fsmile

ShinyBauble Wed 25-Dec-13 16:22:14

I hope it's all going well Far!

FarOverTheRainbow Wed 25-Dec-13 17:07:03

thanks shiny hope you're having a great day

all quite here thankfully, he sent my mum a bitchy text earlier but thats it and is still in tact grin

ChasedByBees Wed 25-Dec-13 18:56:59

Merry Christmas Far, glad the day is peaceful. Tell your mum to save her messages too.

springysofa Thu 26-Dec-13 00:13:57

I know that if I had had contact with my daughter removed I'd be on the lookout for times I could catch a glimpse of her. It's obvious that you'd be at your mums on christmas day with your dd. But he probably had a lie-in and then, well, there's christmas lunch, and then, well, a bit of telly. he probably cba hmm

Glad you had a peaceful day though I'm disappointed he didn't spend the day in the cells Ho ho ho! fsmile

passedgo Thu 26-Dec-13 02:13:53

Next year will be so much better, far. To put it in perspective, I have never heard of anyone to send a bitchy text to anyone on Christmas day, that is just not normal behaviour. Christmas is the one day when you put your differences aside for the sake of peace. You really have a one-off kinda guy - but the fact that he has indirectly abused you via text shows that he knows how far he can go before he puts himself in jeopardy legally.

FarOverTheRainbow Thu 26-Dec-13 11:29:19

Hope everyone had a good Christmas

I never heard anything more. I know he would have driven around but my car is still in tact smile

today im looking at wallpaper exciting but a nightmare to pick

perfectstorm Thu 26-Dec-13 16:09:41

Oh Far that's so good. Really delighted you and DD had a nice day, and that you now feel more confident about the lovely new place, too. Here's to a happier, more positive 2014 for you and your little girl.

FarOverTheRainbow Fri 27-Dec-13 16:54:05

I'm back at the refuge and it was all quite at my mums apart from his. text. I feel completely shattered. hoping DD goes to.bed on time and settles well so I can laze around

stickysausages Fri 27-Dec-13 21:51:08

Have a lazy weekend thanks

FarOverTheRainbow Sat 28-Dec-13 16:02:58

god moving isnt cheap sad

POTC Sat 28-Dec-13 16:23:03

You can make it cheaper if you're willing to use things like freecycle. You can also sometimes get a grant from the council for decorating, it isn't much but it helps. You might have to compromise and use paint instead of wallpaper for example, but the important thing is you'll be in your own home - it won't matter if it takes a while to have it decorated exactly how you'd like it because you & dd will make it a special place regardless

FarOverTheRainbow Sat 28-Dec-13 16:31:16

im willing to use free cycle and ive applied for a decorating grant. I only wanted to paper 1 wall and paint everywhere else.

I wanted to put carpets down but ive just got a price and wasnt expecting that much

Get quotes for Carpets. I always thought Carpet Right was cheap, they are not. Mr Carpet was a lot cheaper. Try see if you can find 3 different quotes.

FarOverTheRainbow Sat 28-Dec-13 20:45:08

I'm going to another place tomorrow together t quotes and there's a place that I know is cheap but XP best mTe works there so I'm going to get someone they don't no to go in and get a quote and if there cheaper get someone to be there and get them fitted and he'll be none the wiser.

I've got an auntie who can put wall paper up and me and my mum can do the rest of the painting

Jux Sat 28-Dec-13 21:04:45

Off cuts are great. All our carpets are offcuts; sometimes they're enormous! Shop around. The internet is your friend here!

perfectstorm Sat 28-Dec-13 21:30:00

If you could manage with big rugs rather than fitted carpets (depends on the underneath flooring, I know) then IKEA sell really cheap massive rugs. We have wooden floors and they're old pine ones - look pretty, but cold in winter - so we have rugs down. It's cheaper than fitted and easier to replace if need be.

Exciting though, planning your new place! What a lovely start to 2014 for you and your DD.

FarOverTheRainbow Sat 28-Dec-13 23:36:21

it is exciting but im really nervous about leaving the refuge because I think. I rely on their support to much

ill mention cut offs at the next place I go. I didnt realise how many small bits you take.for granted like mop and sweeping brush, toilet brush and mats, towels ect things that dint cost much but add up