Northern Cyprus

A Mediterranean quagmire

A nationalist Turkish-Cypriot leader will make it harder to sort out Cyprus

See article

Readers' comments




''"imperialist, aggressive and expansionist, ready to indulge its own ethnic cleansings where deemed necessary"
Really? ''
Yes, really.
A reply to contest the point would be more appreciated by this reader at least, than feeble attempts to justify by diversions in changing the subject.
''then what exactly is wrong about getting a taste of their own medicin,'' very nicely 'Christian' of you charmingfelix, given that 'Christianity' is the key identifer of Hellenism or so we are told.
I take this to be confirmation of the original point you quote, by your own confused argument. Do you agree or don't you, charmingfelix, when your head has stopped spinning and comes to face the front again?
''So basically you are saying Cyprus should have blocked other chapters and not these ones?''
Which ones would you suggest?
Economic union?
Free movement of workers?
Any others?
Food safety?
Consumer and Health Protection?
I have already suggested in this forum that Turkey should substantially reduce its military budget
- but you didn't bother to read any of that before firing off.


''Are you speaking about Cyprus or Greece? Because the original EOKA was a cypriot movement ''

What does the E really stand for, charmingfelix? Something beginning with N, or H in English? Or are they the same thing?

Surely not something ETHNIC?

(Can ''Cypriot'' include Greek and Turkish speaking, Orthodoz and Muslim? The constitution tells citizens to choose one or the other, but not in the combination Muslim Greek Speaker or Orthodox Turkish speaker, it would seem. No doubt you'll put me right if I'm wrong
in this!)



we're all going round it circles here. As I said to you earlier one, the solution is simple: Turkey sits down at the same negotiating table with the Republic of Cyprus. As you know Turkey continues to refuse to recognise the legitimate government.

It really is that simple.

Anyway, the fact is that Turkey is occupying illegally an EU member in violation of every conceivable international law.

You and I can continue going round in circles, wasting each other's time with theories of "I think this will happen..." etc, etc. but nothing changes the facts.

So I know there will be many more posts on the subject but as I said, these are the facts, the rest are just personal opinions that may or may not matter.


charmingfelix, it would be more interesting to read proposed solutions other than the fantasies of an EU invasion to liberate North Cyprus or the endless repetition of justifications, rather than ideas for future co-operations and lessenings of tension!

"hellenic nationalism"(what nationalism? you want to compare this to turkish nationalism?''

Should I have written EOKA for you?
Hellenic nationalism has historically been imperialist, aggressive and expansionist, ready to indulge its own ethnic cleansings where deemed necessary. This is exactly how much of the present day Hellenic Republic was hellenized.

As too often, I see no real proposals for how to move things forward on Cyprus. Just demands - OR ELSE!
But the ''or else'' merely amounts to the fearsome threats of repetition more or less loudly, often realised.
When the message has been clearly received, charmingfelix, there's no need to repeat it, softly or loudly.

How are MORE sanctions as a blockade going to be applied and work?
How can you talk if your only language is demand and that shouted?
How are you going, as an EU member, to discuss the harmonisatiion of standards in education, justice and freedom, with Turkey, given the wholly barmy policy pursued by the Cypriot government, when it declares that 're-unification' is its policy?

Your hypernationalist, militaristic music is balm to the ears of Turkish nationalists of course. You give them the rationales to sell their policies by.

But if the policy is to pander to French nationalism in their aim to deregister Turkey as a valid candidate for EU membership, and if possession of North Cyprus be the price of such policy, why not say so?

I'm sure De Nagy-Bocsa will be delighted with the present that lets him off every hook on this issue that he has devised for himself.

I'm not at all sure that the Cypriot government and people will like the sacrifice.

Perhaps you could enlighten?

By the way, perhaps flogging off useless missiles in storage on Crete and that cannot reach Cyprus to defend it, and donating the money to the dispossessed on Cyprus to ease their hardship, could be one practical suggestion that the hard up on Cyprus could well appreciate?


''We are not going to legalize armed robbery with murder in the EU to accomodate Turkey.''

Bye, bye North Cyprus, charmingfelix.
I think you just going to have to accept that people who think like you have LOST realistic chances for promoting Cypriot unity.
You've LOST North Cyprus and without a change of attitude and mentality, this could well be for an extremely long time.

Your policy of blockade has NOT succeeded in two generations in bringing down the so-called 'TRNC', whether you like that or not (and whether I like that or not too).
The Cypriot policy of NO TALKS on EU negotiations on freedom, justice, education and the like, may succeed in delaying negotiations for a much longer time, perhaps even in causing Turkey ultimately to withdraw its candidature for EU memberhsip (but I doubt that - why should Turkey bother?), but such is very difficult to interpret as a means for ADVANCING the cause of Cypriot unity.

Swingeing sanctions agianst Turkey for not obeying Cypriot demands?
You really CAN envision France, say, terminating its investments (as it was supposed to do with apartheid South Africa) in Turkey just to succour Hellenic nationalism?
Germany doing likewise?

You must be smoking something stronger than anything you suggest I could smoke, unless the same as you!

EU liberation of the occupied north of Cyprus by military means?

When will Cyprus fire off its Russian missiles on Crete, aimed at Turkey, and thus force withdrawal from Cyprus?

When offered a negotiated withdrawal of nearly all troops from Cyprus in 2004, Hellenic nationalists on Cyprus voted a very clear OXI!!!!!


An important aspect Gianni is the question of the Turkish settlers in the north as they now make up such a large percentage of the population, would these people leave with the withdrawing Turkish forces in the event of reunification?

If Turkey was determined to help forge a solution to this problem then would at least try and close one the saddest chapters, the missing Cypriots.


Gianni, I did not say 15% was a "vast majority" as you say, merely a noticable number for such a bigotted and violent political party don't you think?

As always Gianni I look forward to your interesting style of response.


Yugoslavia was miracle while it lasted, born out of the ashes of WW2 where they had torn each other to pieces, we now know however it was a crock, these nations should of been fully partitioned as it became painfully evident in the 1990s they could not live together.

Gianni, for more recent reports google Turkish mafia in London. I find amusing your childish attempts to bring racism into the debate, the BNP are a fringe racist party with very little support and virtually no political power, unlike Turkey which has a rich tradition of facism and ultra-nationalism in its party politics, you only have to look at the popular MHP (15% of the public vote) and its ultra-nationalist Grey Wolves.


and Fahrettin, lock your doors because 4000 Greek pensioners led by their 80 year old priest will soon take over Istanbul!




Just for the record:

I am not one of those ignorant people who cannot accept that Greek Cypriots also committed atrocities during the inter-communal troubles in the 60s and 70s.

So, yes I will say that the Greek Cypriots also did horrible things and those responsible should be brought to justice. I have no problem at all with that.

Having said that, the fact remains that Cyprus is still under Turkish. occupation



I'm trying my friend, believe me I'm really trying to understand the point your trying to make so I can respond to it, but I'll admit I'm completely lost.

"rich and successful and Christian" What?
"Why should any Moslem think this UNO to be a moral authority?"
"Christian clerics are responsible for the genocidal actions which have caused the Cyprus problem and resulted in the murder of 250000 Bosnian Moslems?


You and Fahrettin Tahir seem fixated on an non-existent, fictional "Anti-Muslim Christian Conspiracy".

I'm really struggling to understand your line of thinking and how it relates to the internationally condemned and illegal invasion and occupation of Cyprus and the presence of 40,000 troops there.


Gianni, they are at least allowed their Imams, Mosques and schools. Despite international calls even the so called moderate government will not open the seminary, they are simply trying to kill off the Greek Patriarchy of Istanbul, despite poor Fahrettin's slander he is a much respected world figure who as a full Turkish citizen served his national service.

If a nation refused to accommodate a minority of 4000 then there is clearly something wrong with it. But then perhaps it unfair to compare a developing Asian country by modern European standards...

Perhaps you have an example of Imams being tied up and tortured to death in Greece as with the Christians of Malatya recently?



you too would agree that everything is indeed relative.

No sane person would say that Greece, when viewed in isolation, has a flawless human rights record (indeed in this respect it's no different to any other European country).

However, Greece's record when compared to Turkey's in nothing short of excellent...


On the closure of the Halki seminary in Istanbul:

Fahrettin although I suspect you many enjoy the attention you are profoundly wrong on this (and other) issues, the closure of this institution was a result of typical Turkish ultra-nationalism, it says a lot for a country of 70,000,000 to continue to persecute a Greek minority now numbering a few thousand. It would seem the government is determined to make life impossible for those few remaining.

There are today over 300 Mosques and many schools in Greece serving its Muslim minority, higher education students from this minority are guaranteed rights and funding by law. Quite simply it is astounding the treatment Turks in Greece have received when you consider Greeks in Turkey have been hounded out and even butchered in the streets (Istanbul Pogrom).

Turks have proved they cannot act in civilized fashion, the EU knows this and will continue to use political and economic pretexts to keep them out of the EU.


After reading between the lines of this article and others here - why you continue providing rhetorical suggestions that the Greek Cypriots are to blame for the failure of the Annan Plan? The Annan plan should really be called the US/UK plan. Blame lays in the plan not the Greek Cypriots. There needs to be more balance.

If there is to be unification of Cyprus - the plan provided should not be made to merely serve US/UK interests rather should be for real people whose families have been living on the island for centuries. We cannot have a "johnny come lately" syndrome where decisions are made on the basis of hoards of new migrants shipped in from Turkey by Ankara to ethnically re-balance the island. It would be ignorant to not say there have been historical wrongs and rights from both Greeks and Turks on the island in the past? However it is wrong to say that the historical wrongs of the Greeks can justify the very unbalanced plans pushed by US & UK.

Questions to be asked:
* For US & UK - Is Turkey's accession to EU all they care about? what other self interest points does Cyprus unification on Turkish terms have for both of them?;
* For the Turkish Cypriots is that you only want unified island purely for economic reasons only as your Northern Cyprus economy is dire? You are more than happy to join the well managed economic system across the other side? Does this fact not limit how much negotiating power you have? "Beggers cannot be choosers"; and
* For Greek Cypriots is it prudent to agree to hatched plans to unify Cyprus - with the US/UK trying to bully you into an agreement that merely serves their own interests? Do you actually trust that the Turkish military machine will ever be compliant to fully submit back to the Turkish mainland?

Just to make a comparison with UK. Lets look instead at the "British Northern Ireland Quagmire" - if the Brits practised what they preached pushing for Cyprus unification by a "hatched plan" they would push for a united Ireland, and give up power over Northern Ireland. If the Brits look at the reasons why they won't push for such a unification of Ireland then they should empathise with Greek Cypriots - not place blame on them for this labelled "Mediterranean Quagmire" which they have played big role in both causing and maintaining. Of small solace is Cyprus missed out on Lord Mountbatten when it comes to it's borders.

I sincerely hope both the US and UK can move its orientation to push for a fair outcome - which can then give a "glimmer of hope" - otherwise they should look at themselves first with big emphasis on their relationship with Turkey. Maybe the Economist should dig deeper and challenge US/UK policies thus far, this would make very interesting reading if it was done properly. Whilst it may "rock the boat" - this would be real journalism not commentary of Washington and London. So request is for a critique of Anglo American plans for Cyprus - which empathises with "real Cypriot" families who have lived on the island for centuries.

In conclusion no matter the politics between Greeks and Turks in Cyprus, there is great gastronomy and conviviality. This cannot be denied by anyone.


Britain has nothing to do with the island.So It should give up pro-Greek policy and follow a fair way to solve the problem.Why is the unification only solution to the problem?
The Best solution is division of the island and It is coming.


FreedomUSA's argument about Greece's statistics fails in making any connection with the Cyprus problem. Despite of that, he fails in making the apparent distinction between Eurozone and European Union. He seems to forget that the very values of Western Civilization, EU and USA included, started from this country. Expelling Greece from the EU is like expelling Aristotle and Plato from philosophy. Expelling it from the Eurozone is a clearly economic matter, which does not fit the current discussion.

Alexy Flemming

21 Namibia (South Africa)

CZECHOSLOVAKIA = 25 Czech Republic 26 Slovakia
27 Eritrea (Ethiopia)
28 East Timor Timor-Leste (Indonesia)

SERBIA-MONTENEGRO = 29 Montenegro 30 Serbia

31 Kosovo (Serbia)
32,33 Abhasia, South Ossetia (Georgia)

AND WILL GO ON....34,35,36,...Transnistria , Greenland, Quebec, Wallonia, Flanders, Catalonia, Basque, West Sahara, Somaliland, Scotland, North Ireland,Padova,...

Fahrettin Tahir

Ben London

The Selcuks were indeed not Christians. So what does Akdamar have to do with Cyprus?

I am simply formulating why Turks have the policies they do. You would do well to try to understand them.


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