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Disciplining a smart child.....ugh...help

Posted 12/26/2012

So DD is 5 and super smart.

Let me start off by saying that I love her to death. She is my only. She is an extrovert with a larger than life personality. She is sweet, caring, sensitive, and is friends with everybody. She is in her element when at school and will approach high schoolers and carry on a conversation with them. She gets along with everyone and her smile and laughter can light up any room she's in. I love her personality, her smile, her laughter, and her ability to make others smile.

HOWEVER, this child will NOT listen AT ALL, ever. I know some people are thinking "Well I doubt it's never" but it is. She is wearing DH and I down. We tried time-outs, we tried positive reinforcement (When we praise her for something she will start doing it wrong on purpose), taking things away, a reward chart, buying her a toy she really wants and having her earn it by listening, grounding her (which is making her stay in her room and on her bed for 30 minutes), and other things. None of these things seem to work for her listening.

I wake up every day with 'I will not yell' only to end of yelling after she has done something I have asked her NOT to do five times. I think it is a lack of respect although we have always treated her with respect. She is not getting in trouble at school but she can't keep her name on the star board - even on days when every other child is on there but her. She always says the same thing when I ask why "I wasn't listening". She says it like it's not a big deal. I have gone so far as to tell her I would take her out of school and homeschool her if she continues not listening. (We let this slide mostly b/c she does mention that she is bored because she always knows all that is required to pass Kindergarten and is reading at a second/third grade level. She is currently reading the Bad Kitty Paperback books. Her teachers don't seem to have any interest in challenging her.)

I am running out of ideas here. My DH and I are aganist spanking but ladies I am reaching my breaking point and I don't want it to come to that. My DH spends all day yelling at her also. We both get so frustrated. Even when I don't yell AT ALL, nothing changes. It's not like my yelling is the problem.

She also sees how I am so happy when she occassionally listens (which is rare). I make a huge deal out of it and don't yell and show her how nice it is when mom isn't mad or upset. Then two minutes later, after she tells me she likes me that way, will start not listening again. It's almost like any praise or positive reinforcement changes the behavior for the worse. I am at my wits end. Of all the things I have tried I have yet to find a method that works for teaching her that listening is NOT a choice.

What else can I do?


Proud mother of an only child! "A parent-child relationship is more important than a child-sibling relationship."

Comments (9)

Posted 12/31/2012

She may not listen because she doesn't see a reason to.  Mine was like that and it took a lot of work, but she listens now at the age of 10. 

We did "natural consequences" of parents getting exhausted.  So for example, if she was supposed to hang up her coat, clean her toys, etc.  I'd ask her, making sure to get her to respond that she heard (if she ignores, it's a time out).  Then give a couple minutes and just do it myself.  Mark down that bedtime is now 30 minutes earlier (or some other thing that's important to her). 

Now that dd is older, if she leaves her stuff around, sometimes I ask for her to pick it up, but generally, she has to buy it back from me-- either with chores or money. 

We also spent a lot of time discussing the need to listen.  My dd honestly didn't understand her importance in the family and how we depend on her and really can't move forward as a family without her on board.  She was shocked when I told her that she had to follow directions in adult life--laws, bosses, etc.  You might want to have this kind of talk with your LO.  It might surprise you what she's thinking!

And finally, as a last resort for special times of frustration, don't listen to her.  Really, it happens all the time in life, but she's probably used to being heard whenever she speaks.  Make her work for your attention by using kind words and kind tone.  Which you model by not yelling.  If she doesn't hear you, get right up to her and lower your voice, "I asked you to put that away.  It's time to do it right now."  But, don't yell across the room.  You know it doesn't work.  She may truly not hear you due to attention, auditory processing problems, concentrating or she may not have the same sense of time urgency you do, or whatever.  I wouldn't assume she is being bad on purpose.  I'd help her learn to live in the same world.

I never spanked either, but I did say, "dd you know some parents spank their kids for this and they find it helps them to learn this lesson better".  It worked as well as a spanking IMO.  Vicarious spanking? Lol

Posted 01/01/2013

Mine was much younger with this problem.  Some of the things we found were:

1)  She had wax impacted in her ears so she really couldn't hear us very well.

2)  We were getting too angry and too wordy for her  to listen to us.  Read 1-2-3 Magic.  Now when I ask her to do something its usually a single 2-4 word sentences, with "please" being one of the words.

3)  She has attentional issues.  A lot of times if I yell at her from across the room, she just doesn't register that I'm talking to her.  I have to come up to her,say her name, make sure she makes eye contact and ONLY THEN say what I have to say.  When I'm done, I say, "I need you to say, "Yes Mommy"", so I know that she heard me.  




Posted 01/02/2013

You keep saying "not listening", but you are reacting like she is disobeying.  Is she not listening or disobeying?  Since you never said "disobey", I'm going to assume you mean "not hearing/listening".

1.  Are you sure she can hear ok?  Absolutely, positively, without a doubt sure?  There could be water in her ears, packed ear wax, ear infection, etc.  (My daughter never complains of ear infections!  She simply can't hear for 3-5 weeks & I take her to the doc & they're infected!)

2.  When you give direction, make her look at you.  If you get ignored after you repeatedly say "Suzy, look at me", then walk over to her and direct her gaze toward you.

3.  Make her verbally acknowledge you.  There are two ways to do this.  Make her say "Yes, Mamma."  Or make her repeat what you just said. 

4.  Only give her direction when she is in the room close to you with her full attention, which means eye contact. 

If she is in the other room, don't holler "wash up, it's time for dinner!"  Stick your head into the room & say it.  I constantly tell my kids "If you can't see someone, don't assume they can hear you."   If she's in the other room playing & you holler from the kitchen, it is entirely plausible for her to "hear" you without it registering in her conscious brain.   So you ask why she didn't come, she's not going to tell you that she heard you in her subconscious, but it didn't register in her conscious.  She's going to tell you she didn't think it was important. 

If she's in the same room, but there is a lot of distractions or sound clutter, either direct her to come to you or you go to her.  Don't holler over distractons.  Make sure you get her eye contact. 

All this is training.  You'll have to do a lot of crossing the room for now.  Eventually, she'll get that when you talk, she should listen. 

Last edited 01/02/2013

OK, now I'm going to assume that you really meant "disobey" when you kept writing "not listening". 

At 5,  you can up the discipline/punishment.  She is old enough to connect a disobedience to a consequence over a day away.  This gives you great freedom, beyond just yelling.  Say she is unruley in the morning.  Her punishment can wait until she is home from school.  This allows you to just endure the morning & get her on the bus.  Same thing with disobedience in public or with visitors.  It can wait.  Eventually, she'll learn that, too.

1.  Early bedtime--In my house, this is a default punishment for all emotional disobediences--fits, weepiness, irritability, excessive rudeness or mouthiness, screaming, or shouting.  We assume that the child needs more sleep & will get it.  If we are correct, we have met a need.  If we are wrong, then the child feels the punishment.  It is a great! 

It is common for kindergarteners to need more sleep.  It is a stressful time.  When my boy was in kinder, he had a 7:30 bedtime.  He was not sleep deprived.  But, he often earned a 6:30 & even a 6 pm bedtime once.  It's amazing how often he fell immediately to sleep. 

2.  Writing sentences -  Have her write "I will not..." sentences so many times.   This is great for "I told you & I told you & I told you..."  My boy was a very poor writer, so 1x per year of age was a lot.  He hates this punishment, so it is a true deterent.  

The sentence needs to be precise, though.  I don't recommend "I will listen better" so many times.  That is generic.  My son's 1st writing expedition was "I will not play with the 'P' pillow".  It was a handmade pillow by his 95 yr old great-grandmother with our family initial on it.   It's not a toy, but he was always collecting it with the other pillows for his various games.    The next time he started collecting pillows, he collected that pillow.  I took a deep breath & pondered what to do.  Then I heard him say "Oh yeah!  Not that one."  Then, he returned to my bed.  I smiled quietly to myself.  Woo-hoo. 

3.  Give her various chores for punishment.  If you tell her not to do something & she does it, her punishment does not have to be remotely related to the crime.  You can make her sweep & mop the kitchen, just 'cuz.  Gee, once my husband assigned my son to tying his shoes so many times 'cuz he sassed me three times in 1 morning.  That's actually how he learned to tie his shoes. 

4.  Toy prison-When toys are used inappriopriately we send them to toy prison for 1 week.  We actually choose emancipation day was the same no matter what day it was imprisoned.  It made paperwork easier.   When my son was a preschooler, we actually had a parade for emancipation day.  When he was in 2nd grade, he made it known that he had enough toys to last him while said toy was in "prison".  So I increased the time to 1 month.  I also expanded the guilty--all legos or all hot wheels, rather than just the ones he was playing with.  That got his attention.

5.  Letters of apology-THis is especially important if her behavior involves anyone outside your immediate family.  My son has written 2 letters of apology, mostly for being rude one way or another.  One was to the children's pastor at church.  The other was to my dad.  My dad actually wrote him back a type of love letter.  Occassionally, I catch my son reading it. 

All these punishments are nifty, but they won't work as long as you keep yelling.  The way to stop yelling is to punish immediately.  Don't remind, give warnings, count to 3, or nag, nag, nag.  Just punish.  Calmly. 

It is important to behave like you are in charge.  It's not about warm-fuzzies.  It's about self-control.  When you show her you have no self-control it unhinges her world.  She going to have to test you. 

Don't treat it like it's her fault you are yelling.  It is not.  It is your fault.  Maybe you should apologize.  When my 2nd was born, I yelled at my 1st a lot...a lot.  I eventually had to apologize & explain that I was taking out my frustration from the baby on him.  He said, "I know." 

The swifter you punish the less likely you are to yell. 

Posted 01/14/2013

My DS is the same way. He has been told so many times that he is smart, he now thinks he knows it all. (I know this for a fact because he tells me so.) Time-outs do not work with him. They have not worked since he was three. I have found that the only thing that works is natural consequences. I laughed when I saw one of the other responses because we also have "jail" for toys that are left out after he was told to clean-up. 

Studies show that positive reinforcement is the best way to encourage certain kinds of behavior. If verbal praise seems to back-fire, you might just need to get creative. I use a sticker chart. At the end of the chart, my kids choose a prize. 

One of the previous posters suggested having your kid write sentences. I personally would not use that. I would be concerned that would make all writing feel like punishment.


Wife to DH since 02/28/03

Mom to DS 11/20/06 and DD 10/29/09

Posted 01/16/2013

I had to ground my child from everything. That meant, she could not go to her room for anything. You need to find her weak spot and go for that.


I think positive reinforcement was invented by people with no children. The concept is that you start to give your child extra stuff, beyond what you already give, and then withhold that as a punishment. Ridiculous idea when you look at it that way. But that is how the kids see it. Instead of seeing it that they are working toward the reward, they just see it as a punishment when they do not get the reward.

FirstBaby Girl · Original Poster
Posted 01/16/2013

Okay sorry for not being clear. Since she isn't listening she isn't obeying either. She is hyper and everywhere and it almost seems like she has some sort of inability to control her impulses.

NOTHING works as punishment. If I take things away she cries for a few minutes and then runs off laughing and playing. She is also at the age where she likes to help mopping and sweeping too. When I tell her I will send her to bed early she will say to me "Good because I am tired today." When I give her positive reinforcement she will do the exact thing that I just praised her for - wrong. I wills ay "I really like the way you drew the leter 3 and then immediately she will draw another one backward. It drives me crazy.

We have had a ton of listening talks also, at least once every two weeks when DH and  I are so wound up we can't take it anymore. She cries and promises to listen and do better, only to continue not listening, which leads to not obeying. I mean, if you don't listen you can't obey.

I just bought the book 'Relational Parenting' so hopefully that will work. I am crossing my fingers and saying a prayer.



Posted 01/17/2013

It doesn't matter if she says "good because I am tired" or if she laughs.  Keep going with the consequences.  She needs to know your limits and stick to them.  Not because it's punishment for bad behavior, but because she is learning to live within the family structure.  Your description sounds like a thoughtful child who can turn this around to give you and your DH some peace.

And really, an earlier bedtime might be good for her-- sleep deprivation can lead to implulsive behavior--and it would give you more time to decompress.  The doing the wrong thing after the right shows she is thoughtful and self aware and is a great sign of hope. It is also a test to see where the limits are and if you still love her if she does it wrong. 

This can get better.  Try "How to Talk so your Kids Will Listen"

Last edited 01/28/2013

I'm sorry you're struggling - your DD sounds a lot like mine (with the "Good, I'm tired anyway" or doing something blatantly wrong after I tell her how nice the first one was) but I think this one line might possibly sum up the problem:

" I have gone so far as to tell her I would take her out of school and homeschool her if she continues not listening. (We let this slide..."

Whatever you do, don't threaten ANYthing you're not going to follow through on. She knows you're not going to pull her from school, so why should she take you seriously?  Following through on your threats and punishments is key.  As soon as we get lax with our daughter on things.  ie.  I'll tell her "no" to something and she'll pose a rebuttal or I'll get tired of her whining and I give in and say "Fine, but ONLY because such and such"  As SOON as I get back in this habit she starts up with not listening to anything (BTW.  Not hearing something is different from choosing not to listen/not listening. I got what you meant.)

When we stick to our punishments with her after a spell of not following through, things get really rough for a few weeks until she knows we're serious.  After a week or two of tantrums and flat out not listening when we tell her "no" to something she doesn't put up a fight, doesn't argue (much) and will do what we say because she knows we're not backing down and no amount of disobeying will get her what she wants.

We had her in therapy a few years ago and our counselor told us that following through on what we threaten and sticking to our guns when we tell her no, no matter what she says or does, would turn her behavior around - and it does.  We had given up at that point and honestly I thought she was full of it.  But she was right.  There's a reason that's her job. lol  Once I start to feel defeated or she starts behaving and we get more relaxed with her the behavior starts right up again.  Coupling this style of parenting with the reward system is what really made a difference for us.

Good luck!




- Kristen

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