Spirited Chat

Stories of faith from your neighbors and faith leaders here in Houston

Methodists hate America? Local pastor responds


This week, a Tea Party leader said, “If you hate America, you have a great future in the Methodist Church” and called for the denomination to disband because of their positions on the DREAM Act and other social issues. Here, Rev. Josh Hale, explains and defends the church’s stance.

Religion is necessarily social. And therefore, in our exercise of it today, it touches on all the great areas through which human beings create meaning and exercise our authority: politics; the military landscape; economically and financially; our cultural life: art, music, sports, writing, and the like; and communication individually, as well as on social media and through news organizations.

And now I must read again reports today that decry the “socialist” nature of The United Methodist Church. Once again, we’re in the headlines (not in a good way!) for having certain social postures which result from theological and doctrinal positions.

I have to confess I hadn’t heard of Judson Phillips before today. I would imagine he and I would disagree about this or that political issues, were we to be in a room together today. That’s okay. There are big disagreements about the role religion plays in governance, about how to be responsible for all the citizens of our nation, and the exercise of faith in an increasingly diverse nation. We should disagree–there’s a lot at stake!

But if the goal of Mr Phillips’ post was a broader dialogue about how the United Methodist Church engages social, political, and economic issues in the United States, it was unnecessarily inflammatory, and just wrong in some of its facts. And if the goal was to score some cheap points by exploiting our mass fascination with hatred, then it just makes me sad.

Viciousness is not a virtue. It’s not a Christian virtue, and it isn’t an American virtue.

When I hear protests of “socialism” and “abandoned American values,” I can only think of my United Methodist brothers and sisters in Cote d’Ivoire trying to hold their rapidly fraying country together with prayer and peacemaking. Having been their guest, I can only imagine that they would instead direct our attention to the good news of Jesus: “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.” Not this nation or that, but a reality larger than any individual country or ideology.

At the end of the day, I must ask: what binds me together with Bishop Benjamin Boni and the 700,000 other United Methodists in Cote d’Ivoire, or with the British Methodist congregations I once served? Not American values, nor even United Methodist ones. What binds me together with the Mary of Luke’s Gospel, who sang praises to a God of upside-down values?

He has brought down the powerful from their thrones,

and lifted up the lowly;

he has filled the hungry with good things,

and sent the rich away empty. (1:52-53, NRSV)

What binds me together with people who believe like me, and those who don’t; with those who are proud to be Americans and those who live halfway around the globe; with people from across the ages?

It would be easy for me to sit on the sidelines and refuse to take my place with them. May we remember–at this very time of year, even–how blessed we are that God didn’t stand idly by on the sidelines and mock our frail and broken human efforts. Instead, in Jesus Christ, God jumped down into the dirt, pitched a tent in the middle of our human experience, and began the work of remaking us into a whole and holy people.

And that’s good news even for us, and those with whom we disagree!

Want to know more about the social stances of The United Methodist Church? Visit here.

For a great discussion of what’s at stake in Christian faithfulness and public office, read this article in the Englewood Review of Books.

Rev. Hale, aka the expatminister, is a Rice University grad and the pastor of college/young adult ministry at Wesley United Methodist Church in Beaumont.

The Spirited Chat posts guest submissions on faith issues in the news. If you would like to contribute, please email kate.shellnutt@chron.com.

Categories: Uncategorized
Kate Shellnutt

45 Responses

  1. M. Hudson says:

    The problem with the Methodist church is the higher it goes in the chain of command, the more liberal it becomes. Finally, you wind up with the National Council of Churches. It lost me when they endorsed sending that Cuban kid back to communist Cuba. A pack with the devil for some kind of international good feeling!

  2. Bleach says:

    Rev. you are wasting your breath. Tea Partiers only listen to fire breathing ultra-evangelicals that disdain anything intelligent that comes from the human brain.

  3. YT says:

    Nice try at the smear but FAIL.

    Is Judson Phillips Really a Tea Party Leader?Posted Monday, December 06, 2010 1:31 PM | By David Weigel

    On Google News, I count 225 stories reporting the news that “Tea Party Nation founder Judson Phillips has written a letter urging Sarah Palin to consider running for RNC chair.” This follows the news that Phillips mulled about limiting the vote to property owners. That followed the news that Phillips wanted Keith Ellison out of Congress because he’s a Muslim.

    The thing about these stories is that what Phillips says is news because he’s considered a Tea Party leader. This is strange; it’s tough to find active Tea Party leaders who consider Phillips one of the key players. He’s been controversial since first staking a claim for movement leadership in 2009, founding Tea Party Nation then organizing a for-profit Tea Party Convention because it seemed like no one else was. He got Sarah Palin to speak at the convention (for a fee), turning it into a media event. He and spokesman Mark Skoda announced a PAC at the convention, and plans for another convention in the summer.

    But the PAC, Ensuring Liberty, vanished without a trace. The second convention was delayed, then cancelled. Phillips did not gain new credibility with Tea Party Patriots, FreedomWorks, and other groups that opted out of Nashville.

    “In my opinion Judson Phillips is a profiteering wanna be,” said Robin Stublen, founder of the Punta Gorda, Fla. Tea Party. “He is irrelevant.”

    I checked in with Everett Wilkinson, a South Florida Tea Party leader with whom Stublen rarely agrees. Same answer. “He has a website and radio show,” Wilkinson shrugged. “None of the tea party leaders I know follow him. Did you notice that the his last convention was canceled because no one was coming?”

    I included Phillips in my Tea Party who’s who, published before the election. He runs the group that put on the Tea Party Convention. But it’s worth asking where the credibility of a “Tea Party leader” comes from. The status shifts constantly, but it has a lot to do with who plays with the rest of the movement and puts skin in the game in elections and legislative battles. And Phillips does not impress Tea Partiers on any of those levels.

  4. Big Driver says:

    I sincerely hope that this does not start; the denominations fighting among themselves. It’s just one more reason why we can’t unite all the Republicans. I don’t care what this clown believes, you can’t just go around saying stuff like this, and expect the Methodists to like you. I’m a Baptist, myself, but so what? The good of the country is far more important than whatever method we choose to praise God. Let’s stop this silliness, unite, drive the RINO’s over to the Democrat party, where they belong, and get on with it!

  5. ghostdance says:

    The Tea Party is really all about culture wars. Yes, they have some serious points to make about deficit spending, etc. But what unites them is an “Us” vs. “Them” culture war. Presumably, one knows who is who. The other thing is that they are drowning in self-pity and self-congratulations and think they are the only people in America who work hard, love their families, God, and country.

  6. ModGirl says:

    I tell you what, I just can’t understand how ANYone could in good conscience make this kind of remark against any group of people. Thank you for your thoughtful reply to an aggravating situation.

  7. Anse says:

    So now Methodists hate America, too? Have you noticed that if you aren’t white, Christian, and arch-conservative, you must hate America? How many of us are there, anyway? And who is this “America” these rightwingers keep talking about? Because the America I know looks and sounds less and less like they do.

  8. OIF VET says:

    I don’t agree that Methodists hate America. But why aren’t they encouraging people to follow the law of the land, like God wants us to do? By supporting the Nightmare Act, you are encouraging more people to break our laws and come here illegally so that they can profit off the backs of hard working American citizens, who are already finding it difficult to put their own kids through college.

  9. houtexanfan says:

    First of all, this is on the front page of the chron.com?

    Secondly, where was he wrong? You wrote a blog that stated nothing. What was the point, to put a link to a website that affirmed what he said? I disagree with the “Methodists hate America” spew, but I don’t disagree with his interpretation of the “Methodist Constitution.”

    I still don’t quite understand how the church can support policies of those that denounce the church every chance they get. I guess it could be the same as the far right nuts, where you only hear the far left nuts that scream the church is racist and bigoted, etc. And you only hear them because they have no intelligent argument other than screaming the loudest.

  10. Ivar says:

    I guess the tea partier is advocating the “liberal socialist ” values of Jesus in favor of greed and avarice of capitalism.

  11. PayAttention says:

    Of course, many will claim “I’m a tea party member and he does not represent my views” because there is no actual tea “party”, there is just a gimmick to try and take advantage of a lot of general anger, and each one thinks that everyone else is angry about the same thing, when the collection of planks people claim for the platform are largely self-contradictory, such as “no government take-over of medicare” or “cut the deficit and taxes to grow the economy quickly”.

    In this case, the theocracy plank runs square into the theocracy plank, and those who believe that America is Great also Hate America. In Tea-speak, “socialist” means “benefits for someone other than me”.

    I have heard the word “Socialist” hundreds of times over the last couple of years, and only once or twice has it been remotely used correctly. People who have no clue what “capitalism” is just know that “socialism” is something allegedly opposed to it, so it must be evil, and it does not matter that they also scream to protect socialist programs that help them.

  12. buntingheads says:

    I am a tea partier. This guy, Judson Phillips, is merely ONE of many of us. I know of at least one Methodist Church in the Houston area that does not follow the beliefs this tea partier outlined. At least not all of them. The point I want to make is that just as Phillips is but one of us, he should no way lump ALL Methodist churches into the same mix. Personally, I think he should keep his mouth shut. The media will pick up on ANYTHING derogatory that a tea partier might say or do. The media holds tea partiers to a higher standard than they do their own.

  13. A Texian Observer says:

    OIF VET asked:


    I’m not so sure God always wants us to “follow the law of the land.” Certainly Rosa Parks wasn’t “following the law of the land” on that bus in 1955, but most people today would agree that, in breaking the law she was doing the morally and ethically correct thing.

    There’s room for debate about the DREAM Act, and immigration policy in general. That’s as it should be. But the presumption that God wants us to obey whatever law happens to be on the books, with no thought to its larger morality or reflection upon our own consciousness, is both foolish and deeply dangerous.

  14. george says:

    This is a stunningly weak and rhetorically futile effort to defend his position in support of the Methodist Church. Did someone steal this man’s identity for the purpose of humiliating him?

  15. RealRick says:

    I’m not entirely sure that you responded directly to the challenge, except perhaps for this: “… what binds me together with (other congregations)? Not American values, …”

    Indeed. Maybe Mr. Phillips point is made.

    In an ideal world, we’d all adopt your values, hold hands, sing kumbaya, and be at peace.

    But this is not an ideal world; it is a fractured and damaged place. While we worship God, we must also deal with the harsh realities of this life. If the USA becomes another third world country, it will diminish your ability to do the wonderful ministry that you so enjoy.

    I’m not responding to defend Mr. Phillips, but I must share that I am equally frustrated by the short sighted view of the world that causes otherwise intelligent people to embrace socialism.

    You didn’t address Mr. Phillips’ position so much as you enforced it.

  16. Neal says:

    Bless the teaba.. partyers shriveled little hearts

  17. michelle says:

    What a stupid person.

    That’s like saying ALL Baptists are bad because of Westboro Baptist Church….ALL Catholics are bad because of their perverted priests.

  18. roger says:

    The author can try and defend the Methodist church, but it’s a wasted effort. He lost them when they read that he graduated from Rice University. Berkley, Rice, Harvard, Yale, it’s all the same to them. If the author was home schooled, maybe they’d accept his defense if he was. They’d consider accepting it if he attended Bob Jones University or Oral Roberts University. But they’d worry about how he wandered off the “path”. They might accept it from a Baylor grad, but that is only a maybe, Baylor is still pretty close to being an “elitist” university. Face it, the TeaParty members are just a few short steps away from reconvening the House Un-American Activities Committee. If they do Rev. Hale will be called to appear in front of Congresswoman Bachmann to explain himself.

  19. WeWereHereSecond says:

    Can Methodist Mexicans join the tea party?

  20. guns_o_brixton says:

    After reading the original rant against the Methodist Church by a Tea Party member, I am forced to ask a question: Why bother responding to him at all? Why legitimize the paranoid rantings of a right wing ideologue filled with hatred for those who disagree with him? If you don’t reply, his opinion remains completely unknown to the thinking world at large. The few that he is able to convince with his rhetoric, you would undoubtedly not want among your flock to begin with.

  21. Mr_Unexpected says:

    TEA Party “Leader”? You never named the so-called “lader” of this particular TEA Party.

    More lies about patriots.

  22. oatwillie says:


  23. Epiphany says:

    The article is nicely written but unpersuasive to the evangelical conservatives who would bother to read it. The key is that Christians should support the DREAM act because it is based on biblical values. Instead, evangelical conservatives hide behind the “must support the law of the land” argument, which admittedly does have some biblical support. But that same argument was used to support slavery, apartheid, segregation, and many more ugly policies. That argument could definitely be used against the Declaration of Independence (our only founding document that mentions God by the way) which tells us we are duty bound to defy governments that deny our rights as human beings (not Americans). This is yet another example of evangelicals cherry picking scripture to suit their political, and self-serving, interests. And a merry CHRISTmas to all (if you have a job and are here legally anyway)!

  24. Bleach says:

    Big Driver…you make the erroneous assumption that all Christians are Republicans. It’s telling that you think the Christian faith exist to “unite all the Republicans”.

  25. YT says:

    And the morons eat it up…

  26. BillyBobBackSlap says:

    I don’t hate religion. I hate the practice of religion. Religion and nationalism are the two threats to peace in this world.

  27. Heather says:

    Mr_Unexpected, keep reading, his name is just a few lines down. But thanks for proving a point about yourself.

  28. Andrea says:

    Thanks for this article!

  29. Tony77019 says:

    The Tea Party lost all credibility when they let the religious lunatic fringe of haters and fundamentalists take over. That group is responsible for the US lagging behind other industrialized nations in science education (we’re #12). Furthermore, the Tea Party dances to the tune of their corporate masters who own them like indentured servants.

  30. Iron Horse Cowboy says:

    Judson Phillips is a crackpot.

  31. Gone2Therapy says:

    Personally I believe any religious groups, universities, nonprofit, or cult that aids and abets criminals including illegal aliens are enemies of the state. All federal benefits should be removed. That includes the Catholic church who helps with the underground railroad out of Mexico to Houston and points beyond. It includes the group at UT that solicts unwed mothers to come to the US to make anchor babies.

    There any entity that supports the Dream Act is anti-American. They are taking money, benefits, dreams, food, and long time health support from our children and grandchildren. So No matter what you cloak yourself as, it still makes you evil and cruel and an enemy trying to destroy the well being of my family members.

    Just go to the Herman Memorial SW hospital and see who their free loading patients are. They wanted to sell off that hospital because of the problems. Drive down Westpark. ICE never does.

    And the churches support them. I can show you one on OCEE that does it. A “mission church”. ICE could probably clean it out on a Sunday.

    So Churches are enemies of the state and yes should loose all tax exemptions unless they can prove they no longer support illegal aliens, offer no programs for them in any form or fashion, and provide no underground railroads —nor support any legislation –that is a political matter–they need to stay the heck out of it. Don’t try to hide behind social skirts.

  32. Native says:

    A church cannot be into politics and remain tax exempt. If they want to start being political, they need to be taxed as a business, which is what they are trying to do with this line of thinking.

  33. T says:

    As a Methodist, I was offended by what this nut job said, but also by the fact that my church is sticking it’s nose in politics where it does not belong. Liberal rags, such as the Houston Chronicle, love this stuff. The Tea Party Movement is about conservative values and country. unfortunately, as with any movement, there are kooks within it and they get all of the press because it suits those that are fearful of it’s rise.

  34. Gen X CPA says:

    I sense the Tea Party group is being a racist. Then they go out to eat at a Mexican resturant.

  35. Texian says:

    All of you lost people. Here is the plain truth. The doctrinal construct of this Country was built to where it can only operate on a solid foundation of biblical Christian principle. The arrogance of any of you or of any politicians today to think they are smarter than the founders of this Country is truly astounding. The founders possessed “enlightenment” – something that only is bestowed by our Creator upon those who have openly, freely and wholeheartedly given their honor and their hearts to Christ. Foundational Christianity has been stripped from our Country and we are starting to see the results of the loss of Christ’s Grace upon this Country. The fall will continue. The only thing that will save this Country is an immediate return to a Christian foundation within all branches of Government and the hearts and minds of our politicians. Any other path will be a path to destruction and decay. Soon you will see the U.S. dollar lose its status as the world reserve currency. Most of you don’t understand the implications of this. Enjoy these last days of what is left of old American liberty, freedom and prosperity. A godless people and government have spent their inheritance. If you think it is bad now, you have not seen anything yet.

  36. tired dog says:

    Phillips ? Who ? Tea Party leader ? Sure, and I’m the King of Siam.

  37. kitkat says:

    So many of the responses to the good pastor’s reply to the clearly inflammatory statement by Mr. Phillips are proof that we are becoming a nation that is not willing to rationally discuss our differences. It is a real shame. As a young child I lost my faith in organized religion because of people like Mr Phillips,however I will always remember the simple and quiet faith of my mother,who was raised as a Methodist. Her example is what gives me hope for a better future. People like Mr. Phillips and so many of the responders here make me fear for that future. I was raised to believe that ALL people are worthwhile and deserving of respect. I do not feel that this is a weakness, nor is it a threat to our nation. Indeed it is one of our strengths, so is concern for those that are the least powerful among us. Calling one goup “anti-american” because it actively promotes a social justice policy, founded on the most basic lessons of the scriptures, is not only insulting, it is damning as well. As for the comment by M. Hudson, Elian Gonzales was sent back to Cuba to live with his father, a decision that was clearly the best for the child.

  38. Dwight says:

    I’m glad the Tea Party is rearing its ugly head revealing its agenda. These religious zealots

    remind me of the Winston Salem Witch Hunts which are a part of our American History or The Red Scare lead by Senator J. McCarthy. The term McCarthyism as defined in Webster’s New World Dictionary, the use of indiscriminate, often unfounded, accusations, inquisitorial investigative methods, sensationalism, etc, ostensibly in the suppression of communism.

    America is playing with fire. Any group or individual who supports intolerance of others is a danger to all. Remember Hitler?

  39. maddie says:

    I didn’t read the other comments, but I say to you “Here, Here!” You speak wisely that a Christian church should not be about hatred and viciousness. That has turned this once devout person into an agnostic. I will not associate with the fanatic fringe attending church these days “to worship.”

  40. JimLaw says:

    Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thy self. Mark 12:31. Even if he’s Hispanic.

  41. joe_heathen says:

    Why do tea baggers hate the United States?

  42. El Machete says:

    Where was the “Tea Party” when President Bush was spending more money than any President in history and raising this nation’s defecit to record levels.

  43. Doc Jones says:

    Josh, thanks for your reply to Mr. Phillips. However, I am reminded of something the late Bishop Gerald Kennedy said in response to a question by a reporter from the Los Angeles Times about whay he did not respond to the criticisn the John Birch Society had made of him. He said, “what reason doesn’t put in a persons mind, reason can’t take out. Why bother.

    I am a United Methodist who served this country for almost 30 years as a member of the Air Force Chaplain Service. I certainly did not do so because I hate America.

    One final comment, let’s not forget that, regardless of how wrong he is, Mr. Phillips has the right to the freedom of speech. Let’s not be unchristian in defending the church. “Doc” Jones, Ch Brig Gen Hiram “Doc” Jones USAF Ret

  44. Don E. Bray says:

    This discussion is about the foundation and practices of the Methodist Church. Yet, what is the chance that any of these topics would be brought up for open discussion in a Methodist congregation? Virtually zero, in my experience. What an opportunity for enlightenment from of different views in the faith of John Wesley, an early physician and experimenter in electricity, a contemporary to Isaac Newton, who simply wanted to help suffering people live a better life. Won’t happen, we would rather chose differing camps on a faceless blog.

  45. shortstuff says:

    “The problem with the Methodist Church is that the higher you go in the change of command the more liberal it becomes.”

    And thank GOD for that!

    Jesus said, “As you do to the least of these, so you do unto Me.” Jesus said, “Love thy neighbor as thyself.” Not, you will notice, “love thy neighbor as long as he’s white, straight, and Republican”.

    Just count me as a proud LIBERAL, Democrat (yes, Virginia, there are Christian Democrats!) United Methodist.

    One who has very little tolerance for fundamentalists.