MPs' expenses debate: Who said what

Nick Harvey, a member of the committee that draw up the reform package, on why it called for an external audit of MPs' expenses:

"Members of parliament are unique in certifying their own expenses. The committee was advised by all those who gave evidence to us that this is simply not a practice that takes place in other walks of life.

"Even the chief executive of a plc will have an expense claim certified by the chairman of the board.

"The belief that a Member's signature reflects the fact that a gentleman's word is his bond is, regrettably, not one that the rest of the country is prepared to put its faith in any longer.

"The proposed system of practice assurance will, for the first time, allow checks to be made against the basis on which Members have made their claims and the uses to which the resources they have claimed have been put."

Simon Hughes, Liberal Democrat, on why he supported the full reform package, which would have stopped MPs claiming for furnishings for their second homes and cut claims for outer London MPs:

"The proposal to change the additional costs allowance is a good one. It will provide a cash sum of up to £19,000 for a second, London home for non-London MPs and they will be able to do what they want with the money.

"It rightfully does not include furnishings and all the other stuff; it is a sum of money, and colleagues can decide how to spend it. That is the way other people are reimbursed when they have to work away from home, and that is how colleagues in this place should be reimbursed.

"It is also right that we end the absolutely disgraceful way in which, under the current arrangements, colleagues from outer London have been able to take full advantage not only of their own home, but of a second home at the same rate, even though in some cases they have lived only a matter of 20, 30 or 45 minutes away from here. We have to be very clear about those things."

Don Touhig, a Labour former minister, on why he proposed an amendment rejecting aspects of the full reform package:

"My experience on the public accounts committee has taught me that unless auditing is approached in the right way, it can incur such disproportionate cost that, far from safeguarding taxpayers' money, it undermines the purpose of the audit in the first place.

"If we accept all the recommendations of the report, as proposed by [Nick Harvey] we will commit ourselves to employing hundreds of accountants who will travel Britain at great cost to the taxpayer, checking on whether a member from the north of Scotland has spent too much on paper clips and on whether a member from the south-west could have bought toilet paper for his office staff cheaper at the Co-op than he could at Tesco.'

John Spellar, a Labour former minister, on why he supported the Touhig amendment that would allow MPs to carry on claiming for furnishings:

"Another rather odd thing is the position that the MEC [members estimate committee] took on making the property habitable, rather than having just the four bare walls.

"The MEC makes a nod in that direction, saying: 'We can see that new MPs setting up home in either a rented or purchased flat need a modest dispensation to use their allowance to equip it.'

"That is in the report, but it is not in the recommendations and no figure is identified, which is unfortunate. The MEC sees no justification for continuing with that situation - in other words, for replacing that furniture or those fittings.

"I presume that, if even a prisoner's television breaks down or their bed wears out, they get a replacement. That is an inadequacy of the report and the amendment seeks to address it."

Ann Widdecombe, a Tory former minister, on why she supported the Touhig amendment:

"One of two headlines will greet us at breakfast tomorrow. If the recommendations of the members estimate committee go through, the headline will be: 'MPs to get £30 a day just for turning up'. If the amendment, which I intend to support, is passed, the headline will be: 'MPs vote to keep the John Lewis list'.

"Whichever way we vote, we will continue to be vilified and ridiculed until we have the guts—which we certainly did not show in the previous series of votes - to stand up for ourselves, to defend the system and to tell people why we have that system."

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