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I have been davening Shacharit before work in a shul that does the Heicha Kedusha on any weekday that they get a minyan. If there is no minyan, they do the Silent Amidah only. I can understand that because the "pressing time" is to finish at about 8:00 AM so people can get to work.

In this situation, I have been saying the first three blessings (including Kedusha) quietly along with the hazzan. This seems like the general practice there since no one throws in any "baruch hu varuch shmo"'s.

That would all make sense and seem self-consistent to me, but when the hazzan gets to l'dor v'dor, the congregants DO say "baruch hu varuch shmo" for that final blessing of the Kedusha (implying that they are not saying the blessing themselves), but then they do not say "Amen", they just roll on silently to Binah. I thought that someone should say "Amen" if they are not making the blessing themselves.

Is this mistaken? Some sources (http://torahmusings.com/2010/11/the-quick-mincha-ii-heicha-kedusha/ siting Biur Halacha 124:2; Aruch Hashulchan, OC 232:6.) state that we should actually go and restart the Amidah over from the beginning. Why is the restarting necessary if we said the first three brachot aloud already? Is this somehow related to not saying Amen? If so, the reasoning eludes me.

The same situation comes up for Musaf on Shabbat and Festivals (and maybe on Rosh Hodesh, I'm not sure).

I have read through how does one do hechi kedusha? and Hechi Kedushah anytime? but this inconsistency still does not make sense to me.


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I think you're just not hearing them. But welcome, and thanks for asking your question here! –  Seth J Nov 8 '13 at 5:02

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I spoke to my Rav about this and he said that one starts over (as stated in the Aruch Hashulchan) for Mincha, but for Shacharit there is Smichat geulah l'tefilah, that is to say that one should continue straight from barchu through the end of the Amidah without a break. Therefore for shacharit you should say all aloud with the chazzan and not say amens, including for kedushah, but for Mincha you should say amen to exclude yourself and then repeat from the beginning of the avot blessing.

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Not sure how this addresses the question. Why in the question were those praying not answering amen to the third blessing but they were answering baruch hu uvaruch shemo? –  Double AA Dec 24 '13 at 16:22
@user4679 Thank you for taking the trouble to ask your Rav. This is an excellent answer and I will try to get it right! I had no idea that one would do it differently for Shacharit than for Mincha. –  Mike Dec 31 '13 at 3:06
@DoubleAA I suspect that the others that I pray with do not know what the actual halacha is. According to this answer, they are doing it wrong, and should instead be saying that last blessing aloud. This could be a carryover from when they do/did this at Mincha or a carryover from a full repetition. I suspect it is a conflict between 1) they know they are not saying the end of Kedusha aloud and 2) they know they don't say amen in a Heicha Kedusha. I do not want to go in there and tell them all of this. I hope there is not an issue of a berakhah levatalah? –  Mike Dec 31 '13 at 14:33
Also I found this page on various ways the Heicha Kedusha was done over they years. Not an answer but interesting. responsafortoday.com/engsums/5_2.htm –  Mike Dec 31 '13 at 14:52

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