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Jim Stingl | In My Opinion

Self-defense weapons are murky category

It's a simple question: "If one is walking alone in the dark, what can you carry to defend yourself?" The answer, I'm finding, is not quite as simple. »Read Full Article

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  1. to "go armed" does not require going anywhere. i found this gem when looking at the laws that are on the books and how they have been interpreted. you dont have to go out to be armed. you can be in your house and are considered armed if you meet the criteria. a good place to start is crimes public health and safety wisconsin to see all the laws that are on the books such as 941.2965 restrictions on use of facsimile firearms 941.24 possession of switchblade knife 941.25 manufacturer to register machine guns= there are boatloads of laws- there is a city ordinance that says you cant swim below the north avenue dam- 1890-its on the internet- the statutes are at the library- the federal laws are probably at some federal building, be careful, you cant carry a pocket knife into some of these federal buildings, its against federal law-
    Hide replies
    • There are so many laws, federal & state, which have criminal punishments that any person is probably in violation at some time just about any day. Not just as to weapons, it could environmental, use of farm fertilizer, connecting plumbing, electricity, time to keep business records, importing products, tax matters, and so on. The law puts the burden of knowing all these laws, but that is impossible. Your freedom is at the mercy of the discretion of a prosecutor.
    • The blue Ruess federal building across Wiscosin Ave. from Boston Store and the Federal Courthouse on East Wisconsin Avenue both have weapons screening. In fact, they've changed the whole configuration of the Ruess building post 9-11-2011. You cannot get on the elevators via the skywalk level. You have to take the escalator downstairs, go through screening,, and then get on the elevator. This is true even if going into the IRS office to pick up a simple tax form or instruction booklet.
    • The 'no swimming below the now-long removed North Avenue dam' ordinance was no doubt passed because by 1890 the Milwaukee River had become an open sewer full of human and industrial wastes. In summer the flow rate would go down and the algae blooms along with decaying wastes, fish kills, etc. made for one putrid smell. Thus a flushing tunnel was built and a large pump was constructed. The pump still operates and is located inside the Altera Pumphouse coffee shop along Lincoln Memorial Drive. Ten years ago the pump was still started and tested at least twice a year.
  2. As a national issue we have many inconsistent self defense laws and no tracking on the criminal record background of crime victims. The victim driven culture that hyped adding more and more laws was predicated on the idea the background of a victim and their criminal record history was irrelevant. These facts are relevant to our understanding to develop laws that work.

    Even within parole and probation systems felons can be forced by the system to have contact with weapons. Many jobs felons are conscripted to involve weapons such as knives working in kitchens. This is true even in prisons despite sentencing conditions felons are assigned kitchen duty working with knives.

    In a contradiction an offender banned from having contact with pepper spray worked in a store that sold the spray. The corrections department refused to remove the offender's rule and also indicated they would enforce a violation if they quit their job. The employer refused to fire the offender as an easy answer for DOC to avoid the legal question that their rules were undermining to the rights of employers to assign job tasks to their employees to meet business needs. Ironically there are no laws that require businesses selling many forms of self defense weapons are barred from hiring felons.

    Employers do have the right to change job duties and work conditions. More are not willing to play the role of enforcer for corrections departments to regulate an employee's work duties. Fewer are willing to fire felons to allow corrections departments to have an easy answer and for the felons to collect unemployment checks. Employers paying the tax bills are not willing to return employees to prison either.

    Our laws are not written as meaningful guides but designed to fail us all. Even if you follow legal advise you alone will be held accountable.

    How do we untrained a trained self defense artist convicted of a felony that doesn't need any particular weapon to defend themselves?
    Hide replies
    • Jane, society recognizes the difference of using a knife to eat a steak and having one in your pocket as a weapon. So do judges. As stated in the above article, "intent" is used when deciding. Such as someone carrying a bat, going to softball practice and someone carrying a bat to a confrontation.

      Your bitterness to the laws are IMHO a direct result of you being a non-violent felon. Unless you can get a pardon, you will be a convicted felon and treated as such.

      We have a thing called penalties for violating laws. Most on the left firmly believe laws and penalties will detour persons from committing said crimes. I disagree.

      Everyone has the right to self defense. Felons just cannot possess most lethal weapons. These laws are clearly on the books, and I am really sure they were explained to you by your probation supervisor.

      Paul D
    • Lets take a look at a document the public rarely sees, real WI DOC probation/parole rules. Rule number 12 is clear that felons can not have any weapon yet no clear definition of what constitutes a weapon was provided.

      These are the real rules from the Jane Doe case. I voted in another state where I was a resident and it was legal. I had a cell phone, left the state and technically had a weapon because I do have steak knives.

      I wasn't a resident of WI when the very fake plea bargain went on. Look closer at the signatures on all the paperwork. I am not now a resident of WI. My home state constitution guarantees the right to bear arms. Why does a WI conviction bear on me living in another state?

      Technically I followed rule 20 reporting to a specific address. The rules never said I had to speak to anyone. Placed a traced call to prove I was there. The WI DOC held me for 5 months on violation for rule 20. I refused to sign the rules of WI DOC that did not conform with the plea bargain. Yes I did. Setting off a firestorm where I got fan mail from across the prison system. Technically was using an alias in prison while on VOP for refusing to sign the rules as Jane Doe.

      It would be too easy for both the Dems and Republicans to pardon me. Where is the fun in that? Political salvo is much more fun.

      If you can't iron out how to keep weapons from felons how do you develop laws for self defense weapons? We all have to go by the exact letter of the law. Isn't it funny how the WI DOC never wanted to pursue further challenge.
    • a felony is a felony is a felony...there is no discretion between states for the simple fact that you broke the law of the U.S. and will forever have to abide by the rules...too bad for you...
    • JaneDoe, In Wisconsin, convicted felons are allowed to vote the once they are finished with parole/probation.
    • OIIIIIO -- Actually, just as many conservatives and those on the right believe strong laws and stiff sentences deter crime. Exhibit 1 = the death penalty which is near universally opposed by those on the left. Texas executes more prisoners than all other states combined, but murders still happen in Texas. So much for the notion of deterence. Exhibit 2 = the war on drugs. In the mid to late 80s there was a big push to toughen drug penalties, especially for crack and other new drugs entering the market. Yet people still do drugs. We went on an unprecedented prison building spree in Wisconsin and nationwide following the 1988 presidential election. After Michael Dukakis was called "soft on crime" by Vice President George H. W. Bush, no politician of any party or ideolgy wanted that label. Now we have prisons full of drug offenders, many of them non-violent. I am not a "if it feels good, do it" person. I am a liberal and want drug laws other than weed to stay on the books. I've seen too many lives ruined by drugs. However, the notion harsh penalties deter crime just does not hold water, and I believe most the left agree. Perhaps those that think those the left believe that are thinking about gun laws. Guns laws only work if they are enforced.
  3. Wisconsin 2011 Act 35 codified as Wisconsin Statutes § 175.60 et seq. does not permit carry of a switchblade knife regardless of blade length.

    § 941.24  Possession of switchblade knife.
    (1) Whoever manufactures, sells or offers to sell, transports, purchases, possesses or goes armed with any knife having a blade which opens by pressing a button, spring or other device in the handle or by gravity or by a thrust or movement is guilty of a Class A misdemeanor.
    (2) Within 30 days after April 16, 1959, such knives shall be surrendered to any peace officer.


    One thing Wisconsin has done well is public access to jurisprudence. The prudent citizen, more the prudent journalista, must avail himself of this access. MOLON LABE
  4. Pretty good column. Thanks for pointing out that concealed carry permit holders do not enjoy any extra rights.

    The WI Concealed Carry License only allows one to carry a concealed weapon in (some) places where those without permits would be subject to Wisconsin State Statute 941.21(a Class A misdemeanor). That's it.

    The societal standard of care you will be expected to conduct yourself with while carrying concealed is, as expected, higher.
    Hide replies
    • Exactly. They don't have extra rights, they have greater ability to exercise the same rights that we all share, or the ability to exercise their rights in more situations than people who choose otherwise.

      I hadn't thought about getting a CCW license for the purpose of carrying a nonlethal weapon like an asp into businesses that prohibit firearms only. That's an interesting thing to ponder.
  5. Mr. Stingl became somewhat ensnarled
    like so many others do
    within the sometimes laborious labyrinth
    of our criminal justice system.

    As for the best defense
    I would not want to advise
    for it is up to each person
    to “let your conscience be your guide.”
  6. I have a concealed carry license in my wallet. That's what I carry to defend myself walking alone. Along with a Ruger LC-9 subcompact 9mm handgun in a concealed leather holster. I am trained to know to use it only when my life is threatened. I took Sheriff Clarke's advice before he made it public.
    Hide replies
  7. Your Brains is the best weapon you could ever have. I never drive a car and enjoy walking the streets of Milwaukee day and night. Depending on the neighborhood,sometimes walking the alley is safer...and so far..only one person has been very seriously injured.
  8. The first point of self-defense we need is in our courts. The courts have absolutely no obligation to inform defendants on the extent of rights they give up in deal making. Corrections departments have written their own constitution and are poorly regulated.

    Today we have a prison supplier wanting to buy naming rights to a stadium because we have created so many criminal justice system fat cat suppliers.

    Wisconsin Supreme Court like other states has heard only a handful of cases related to probation/parole violation for felons in possession of weapons. The real reason for this is to leave confused laws on the books without court comment.

    Even a glass of water or an envelope can be declared a weapon. We don't have a right to defend ourselves. We are suppose to keep paying higher and higher taxes so the police do that for us. We are suppose to keep paying to have a lawyer on retainer to protect rights we honestly no longer have. This is the real reason why we have lost jobs in America. Why bother having things to make yourself a target of crime? Why bother going to work to risk your personal safety when we can sit home on welfare?

    Thanks to the Republican lead crime agenda we all are in prisons in our homes. The real reason the Republicans are so mad is more people that can't defend themselves go on welfare. They don't have enough minimum wage workers to make them rich.
    Hide replies
  9. The chief problem in the argument for gun control is the lack of truly independent research. We can look at certain numbers like the number of felon with possession of gun charges filed by Milwaukee County. However, the pro gun side would pick out a true case where a person with a gun that lacked a firing mechanism and was unloaded was charged with felon in possession of a gun. Clearly the gun was no real threat. Charges were about the same old thing of using the criminal justice system to provide mental healthcare. When ten, twenty or two hundred cases are found with questionable clarity that the gun was any real it undermines gun control.

    We are trying to defend ourselves against a variety of scenarios using misleading facts from all sides.

    Lets look at another issue that seems to follow gun control, prepping for Katrina like events. Marketing wants us to believe we need the gun and the food stockpile. If there was a Katrina like flood in Milwaukee wouldn't those guns and food get washed away?

    I happen to agree with the idea that we should have no gun control laws because we can't figure out a perfect way the regulate them. I would not however support reversing the gun control laws.

    You best self defense is always common sense. Knowing your surroundings and being aware the world is not a safe place. Plan to be sensible. From there is its God's will. I do not really believe we can save lives or punish crime because we are not God. It is that faith and that trust I give to Him that gets me through.
  10. I alway wondered about the "pocketknife" being a concealed weapon. As a kid from the age of like 8 to 12 I never went anywhere without a pocketknife in my pocket. So when I see in the paper where some Barney Fife cites someone out in Hartland or Oconomowoc for a concealed weapon violation when all they hae is a pocketknife I can't help but be confused. How many hunters carry a knife with them in the fall? If they don't have a CC permit I gather they are in violation of the law? That is really silly.
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