C of E basic questions

(58 Posts)
flotsomandjetsom Sun 13-Jan-13 21:03:48


PedroPonyLikesCrisps Mon 21-Jan-13 20:19:26

I don't need to explain why he doesn't because I don't believe he exists. Those who DO believe he exists but can't explain, for example, why he would allow natural disasters to kill thousands of innocent people, say that he moves in mysterious ways and that we can not understand why he chooses to allow the things he does. This seems to be a sufficient answer to believers without further question. Which is rather insulting to the intelligence of most people.

MaryBS Mon 21-Jan-13 20:27:31

So if you don't believe, why are you bothered about Confirmation? Or anything else that has been said on this thread?

I'd gladly explain my thought processes about God, and why he allows suffering, but it would take a long time, and involves a journey of half a life time, so to properly explain it would take some time, but I don't think you're really interested, you're just trying to derail this thread.

niminypiminy Mon 21-Jan-13 20:38:48

Those of us who have childen do our best to bring them up in the light of the values that we believe in and live out, and to teach them the things we have found to be true, and to pass on what we believe the best way to live. For Christians that means bringing our children up in the faith that we ourselves practice. So, Pedro, that's why I take my children to church, and why I hope they will be confirmed at whatever age they think they want to.

PedroPonyLikesCrisps Mon 21-Jan-13 20:48:08

Not at all, I'm fascinated to understand the belief. But I'm bothered about the confirmation of minors because inducting children into a faith before they understand exactly what it means is unfair. They do it "willingly" because they are conditioned to believe that it is something they should do and are not presented with alternative faiths (or non faith based understanding).

This conditioning leads them to support their church (or building of choice for their faith), they attend regularly, taking with them their fairy tales and converting them to "truths". This propagates a larger organisation which thrives on relieving it's members of their small change, relieving it's more deeply invested of their lives and relieving tax payers of millions of pounds every year in this country alone.

These wider organisations, supported at the lowest level by their unsuspecting moderate believers, are manipulated by devout extremists to support some of the most horrendous acts ever brought upon the human race.

This is why I have a problem with a ceremony being performed for a child which is supposed to be an educated decision to follow a faith. It is no less child abuse at its core than slicing off pieces of genitalia of babies to appease a deity.

niminypiminy Mon 21-Jan-13 20:57:38

Rubbish. Paranoid fantasy.

Perhaps you do not have children and so do not know how hard it is to get them to do anything they do not want to. For example, you have to tell them to say 'please' and 'thankyou' many hundreds of times before they will learn to say it. I only wish it was so easy to indoctrinate them as you suppose. My job as a parent would be so much easier!

But seriously, I can't really see that the CofE is being manipulated by extremists to support some of the most horrendous acts ever perpetuated. It is more likely that it is a stealth operation to support the profits of PG Tips and United Biscuits.

PedroPonyLikesCrisps Mon 21-Jan-13 21:09:53

Of course I have a child, I'd look pretty odd hanging around Mumsnet if I didn't.

Indoctrination of children is incredibly easy when it comes to teaching them what is true. Getting them not to put their fingers in a plug socket is a completely different thing to explaining to them that God made all the flowers. It's surprisingly easy to indoctrinate many adults too apparently. Just look a the number of people who get caught up in cults like Scientology. Vulnerable people are easy to convince and children are some of the most vulnerable, innocent and niaive humans that there are.

The CofE is a Christian organisation. Christians have been the direct cause of numerous wars and acts of terrorism throughout human history. As a whole they are milder now, but by no means completely peaceful. Religious disagreement is the main cause of hostile aggression in the world. Islam is currently going through a period of global aggression as they have more influence in the world than they ever have and they have very similar structures of low level moderate followers supporting the wider organisations.

niminypiminy Mon 21-Jan-13 21:41:47

How do I know you're not a spam-bot generated by Richarddawkins.net? I have no evidence that you're a real person let alone a real person with a child.

PedroPonyLikesCrisps Mon 21-Jan-13 21:58:41

Haha!! My arguments would be much more solid if I was!

What evidence would you like?

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