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Honda to introduce a new 3.5 liter V6 diesel by 2010






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It amuses me
By TheWizardofOz on 7/11/2007 11:22:50 AM , Rating: -1
That Americans are looking to "diesel" as a new technology. More than 50 percent of compact cars in europe are sold with diesel engines.

Efficiency is a new thing for US.

RE: It amuses me
By ziggo on 7/11/2007 11:34:58 AM , Rating: 2
These diesels do contain "new" technology. The diesels in Europe would not pass our stringent emission requirements, failing mostly due to NOx and particulate emissions.

RE: It amuses me
By TheWizardofOz on 7/11/07, Rating: -1
RE: It amuses me
By TomZ on 7/11/2007 12:16:23 PM , Rating: 3
Newer VW/Audi TDI engines only pass new U.S. regulations when they are combined with NOx storage catalyst or urea-based SCR systems.

Volkswagen’s Jetta TDI will manage without a urea injection system by using a NOx-storage catalyst.

Other VW/Audi engines will use BlueTec SCR.

RE: It amuses me
By hubajube on 7/11/2007 12:23:15 PM , Rating: 2
In terms of efficiency and being a "clean" engine, EU passed US long time ago.
Wrong! CARB is STILL the most stringent emissions regulation on the planet. Most diesels can't pass CARB regs and can't be sold in CARB regulated states.

RE: It amuses me
By TheWizardofOz on 7/11/2007 1:00:41 PM , Rating: 1
Yes they do.

The only thing that diesel is not popular in US is:

1.) Because DC and GM cannot produce proper diesel technology and their non-efficient gasoline cars cannot compete with a 50+MPG europen diesel cars

2.) People think that diesels are low powered, dirty engines, which made infamous by GM in 70s and 80s, for the first reason that I pointed out.

RE: It amuses me
By Samus on 7/11/07, Rating: -1
RE: It amuses me
By TomZ on 7/11/2007 1:20:19 PM , Rating: 2
Apparently making up "facts" is also the American way.

[Catalytic converters were] first widely introduced on series-production automobiles in the US market for the 1975 model year to comply with tightening EPA regulations on auto exhaust, catalytic converters are still most commonly used in motor vehicle exhaust systems.

The rest of your post is also crap - what is all that drivel about "lifestyle is much more wasteful..."? If you don't like the U.S., then by all means please move to Europe. That's freedom which truly is "the American way."

RE: It amuses me
By FITCamaro on 7/11/2007 2:07:11 PM , Rating: 2
While I agree that recycling programs aren't up to snuff here, the rest of what you say is pure crap.

I don't drive a huge SUV, don't use extremely power hungry tech (how exactly do you classify this when European's use largely the same electronics we do), and try not to waste.

As the above poster said, if you don't like things here and love the way things are in Europe, why do you go there? Another part of the American way is giving you the freedom to leave.

Just because some drive giant SUVs when they don't need them, doesn't mean the general consensus of this country is that is whats best. If I needed an SUV, I'd drive one. But I likely never will, so I won't. Now if I eventually have 4 kids, then I'll consider it.

RE: It amuses me
By TomZ on 7/11/2007 1:14:34 PM , Rating: 2
I don't see how that link supports your statement.

Here's a quote for you from that article:

However, the PSA [European] car doesn't meet LEV-2 or EPA Tier 2/Bin 5 emissions limits for nitrogen oxides (NOx). As one California Energy Commission (CEC) official commented to us following the SAE presentations, U.S. EPA calculates that the PSA car "emits NOx at 0.6 grams/mile versus 0.08 g/mi as required in the U.S."


Who owns DC? Who owns Opal? Hmmm...

RE: It amuses me
By TheWizardofOz on 7/11/07, Rating: 0
RE: It amuses me


RE: It amuses me
By Hoser McMoose on 7/11/2007 3:39:59 PM , Rating: 2
It passes also California's emission standards, which is the most strict in US.

There is not a single diesel-engine passenger vehicle of the 2007 (or 2008) model year that has passed California's emission standards. You can find the list of vehicles here:

The only diesel-engine passenger vhielce that passes ANY of the US standards is the Mercedes "Bluetec" E320, but it's sold as a "45-state" vehicle because it didn't meet the emission tests in the 5 states (California, Massachusetts, Maine, New York and Vermont) that go above and beyond the US Federal requirements.

This upcoming Honda engine is a Tier 2, Bin 5 vehicle which means it should pass the California requirements, while Mercedes certainly has plans on fixing their emissions to meet those requirements as well. I don't know about VW/Audi yet though, as of right now ALL of their diesel engines fail on the US Federal requirements, let alone the CARB ones.


Sorry but that's just 100% false. The current US Tier 2 standards are most definitely more stringent then the current EU Euro4 standards.

The upcoming Euro5 standards, to be implemented in 2009, should more or less match current US standards.

RE: It amuses me
By TomZ on 7/11/2007 11:37:58 AM , Rating: 4
No, the difference is that the U.S. insists on having clean diesel for its passenger car fleet. European diesels don't meet U.S. emissions standards. That is why you see all these "new" diesels having some sort of additional selective catalyst reduction (SCR) technology like the ammonium-filled catalyst mentioned in the article.

Without these newer technologies, the diesels wouldn't be street legal in the U.S., although they would be perfectly acceptable in Europe.

RE: It amuses me
By etriky on 7/11/07, Rating: -1
RE: It amuses me
By TomZ on 7/11/2007 12:55:15 PM , Rating: 3
The U.S. has required 100% on-road low-sulphur diesel since October 1, 1993

RE: It amuses me
By TomZ on 7/11/2007 12:57:06 PM , Rating: 2
Sorry, forgot to add that SCR systems require low-sulfur, not "zero" sulphur.

RE: It amuses me
By Martin Blank on 7/11/2007 11:45:23 AM , Rating: 2
The avoidance of diesel was not an avoidance of efficiency. Reliability problems with diesel engines a few decades ago -- including those imported from Europe -- lingered in the minds of American drivers, and pollution problems (sulfur and PM10 emissions in particular) made it difficult to pass smog requirements in some areas. Those issues were solved, but there was no pressure in the US due to low fuel prices to re-examine them carefully.

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EGR actually lowers combustion temperature slightly. Just sayin ;)

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