Familial hope: After East Coast Rapist arrest, Harringtons push for DNA

"Why haven't you picked me up sooner?"

That was the question that 39-year-old unemployed truck driver Aaron H. Thomas allegedly asked investigators upon his Friday, March 4 arrest in New Haven, Connecticut. Believed to be the so-called East Coast Rapist, Thomas is not suspected in the Charlottesville killing of Morgan Harrington but is linked by DNA to at least 17 attacks from Rhode Island to Virginia over a dozen years.

One Virginia prosecutor says the arrest would have come sooner if investigators had access to a controversial tool for which Morgan Harrington's parents have been pushing: familial DNA searching.

"If it had been available, this case would have been solved in '07," says Prince William County Commonwealth's Attorney Paul Ebert, adding that several females, including the three teenage girls Thomas allegedly abducted and raped in 2009 in Prince William, might have been spared.

Connecticut does not have the familial DNA searching software which might have pointed to a relative of Thomas incarcerated for a felony in Connecticut, where several of the rapes occurred.

While Virginia State Police spokesperson Corinne Geller says "no evidence" links Thomas to the 2009 killing of Morgan Harrington or to a DNA-connected 2005 Fairfax rape, Harrington's parents hope the search for their daughter's killer gets a dose of familial DNA, which enables investigators to narrow the search by looking for looser DNA matches than the exact matches required by traditional testing.

"We're hopeful they'll get it up and running and use it in Morgan's case and other unsolved homicides," says grieving mother Gil Harrington. She expresses frustration that while Virginia has obtained the necessary software to conduct the searches, investigators tell her it could take as long as a year to establish proper protocols.

"I don't understand why it's taking so long," says Harrington, scoffing at privacy concerns voiced by the ACLU.

"This is just something to point you in a direction of people to question," says Harrington, adding that DNA is only collected from felons or those who've been arrested for a violent crime.

"We are working as expeditiously as we can," says Pete Marone, of the Virginia Department of Forensic Science, declining to offer a firm timetable.

As reported in the Hook's January 27 cover story, "Familial Pain: Harringtons press police for controversial DNA test," it was familial DNA that enabled California investigators last summer to catch a serial killer dubbed the Grim Sleeper who committed a string of murders over 25 years. After his arrest in July, 57-year-old Lonnie David Franklin Jr. pleaded guilty to 10 murder charges after he was linked to a man convicted on a felony weapons charge: his son.

Prosecutor Ebert says he hopes the Grim Sleeper arrest and the knowledge that a faster arrest in the East Coast Rapist case could have prevented several rapes will help expedite implementation.

"That," says Ebert, "would be one good thing that could come of this."


Would familial DNA have caught Nathan Antonio Washington earlier?

I believe it can be used in conjunction with the CODIS database that contains info from all the states/feds. But I don't know this for certain. It sounds like they have a limitted amount of material to work with in the Harrington case. They need to make sure they have the protocols in place to ensure that the results they get from the testing and the evidence they then later gather as a result will be admissible in court despite the best efforts of a defense attorney to challenge them. They need to take their time to get it right. It will happen though.

Moses D. Thonas of Connecticut, age 56, looks like the sketch of the ECR, and also a quite a bit like the sketch of the Fairfax rapist connected to Morgan Harrington. (He is downright evil looking. He has the pouty lower lip which the sketch of ECR was trying to portray, and has crosseyes which the sketch of Fairfax rapist might have been attempting to show. His hairline is higher than the Fairfax sketch, but that could happen in 5 years. His eyebrows are fairly close to his eyes as are the Fairfax sketch (the sketch is inaccurate anyway, because in nature the eyebrows could not realistically be that close...I wish someone would fix the sketch to look human) The forhead wrinkles seem to be there, ans the frown lines.
Anyway, looking at all the Thomas sex offenders in Virginia alone might be a good place to start, since there are 88 of them, and the sketches to resemble each other. Some of the Virginia sex offenders look like the sketch of the ECR, for example, I was looking up all his siblings of ECR. All of his male siblings names show up in sex offender lists in one state or the other. There is a brother Steve, age 38, a brother William E. Thomas, a brother Donald Bernard Thomas. (Berryville, Va.)
Actually Steve looks like one of the sketches of AAron.
Cori Thomas looks like the one sketch with the long pointed chin (he is in Richmond jail)then there is a David Thomas (Richmond) who resembles the sketch with the beard.(the attempt to show the pouty lower lip in particular)Then you can look at Devon Thomas (Richmond)(in jail)he looks like the third sketch, especially the nose, mouth and chin line....Why do all the sketches look different, yet resemble other sex offender Thomases (could the DNA be similar?)
There is an AAron Bernard Thomas in Fayetteville N.C. who is on Sex offender list. (yes he looks like one of the sketches)
Look at Kelvin Dewan Thomas from Charlotte NC on sex offender list (he definetely has same mouth as second sketch)(It is a different sort of mouth (((((and seems to have been passed on by some white Thomases))))

There is a Lamar Thomas in Connecticut (SO) with all of these aliases (aliases...Michael Bailey, donald hankins, keith jackson ,paul jackson, david johnson, paul johnson, thomas lamar, david martin, donald martin, raymond martin, paul nealy ))) Do you think he might be trying to hide something?

SJones, As usual, Good points.....
You are the only media outlet that seems to want to keep the spotlight on the case and is so reputable and respected.. Thank you.

Great points, SJones and red. Tools are not effective unless used correctly and by a skilled person. They make the job easier, but don't eliminate all the routine or mundane prep or background work. As much as solving Morgan's case and hopefully preventing any additional attacks or murders are important, it's vital that all the "i's are dotted and t's are crossed". After all, successful prosecution is the most important goal now.

VA Mom
Respectfully, I have to disagree with your statement that the most important goal now is successful prosecution. If it were my daughter or yours , who was to be the next "VICTIM", I would not care if the "i"s and "t"'s were crisscrossed! I would want this evil criter off the streets, using any manner at all (legal or not)!!! That is how I feel. (all the young women/girls out there are just as important as my own)

Most states bar the use of the familial DNA searches because of privacy concerns.
I have often wondered (not to sound sexist or anything) if it were the men and boys who were being raped and murdered at an alarming rate, if many, if not all of the States would allow familial DNA and whatever else it took to get these people off the streets and to keep them locked up where they belong.
(this thought was reinforced recently while listening to the confessions of a congressman who was talking about childhood abuse on himself. He said that when a MALE is raped he feels totally humiliated, vulnerable (not his exact words...using memory here) and it is horrible. I thought "how on earth does he think the girls must feel?" DUH!!!!!!!

I don't believe any states bar the use of familial DNA. It has just not been approved for use or the protocols developed for use in most states yet.

Far more men get murdered each year than women. Rape is the only crime that impacts women more than men. Of course, men are also more likely to commit crimes.

AIC, I see what you mean and feel the same but I think what VaMom means is that in order to get him off the streets and KEEP him off, LE has to do things by the book. If the defense can prove any improper investigation used by LE it could be a loophole they would use to get him off. I believe that is why we don't see this person charged with this yet. An iron clad prosecution will keep our streets safer in the long run.

Jme, put that way, I agree.

There is NO doubt that we ALL want this monster OFF the streets forever.
I have a question that has bothered me for quite a length of time.
What is the general consensus as to WHY the Pantera Shirt was placed where it was placed? Why THERE? And, Why then? Does anyone feel it was a signal to someone? Perhaps the murderer?
Thank you for your thoughts.

Thanks J.me that's exactly what I meant, but didn't articulate well. I didn't mean to sound harsh, unfeeling or dismissive and you're corrrect, AIC, all young women are equally important. A single rape is one too many in my book and we should actively work to end such horrible violence against women. Obviously, I'm a parent and if my daughter was raped, I'd want EVERYTHING done. However, I hope I'd also realize making him pay and pay dearly for his crime was in the long run going to help not only my family but others. I want ALL monsters who rape locked up for as long as possible in the most secure setting available. End of story.

DCDame asks:
I don't think there is a "general" consensus. Some believe it was placed there by the assailant himself in order to re-direct the search that was to take place soon...throw the search off so to speak. Others believed it was placed there by a girlfriend who found it in her beloved's belongings, realized it belonged to a missing girl, and placed it on the bush in revenge. In that case, would he have resided near there (15th and Grady)? Or did someone place it there as a signal, the thought of which brings forth several scenarios? Or lastly, was Morgan in that area that evening, change shirts and leave the shirt behind only to have an innocent passerby find it later and leave it "out there" on a bush? But the shirt was apparently "displayed" on the bush in a way that makes the latter improbable.

Nice article!! Thank you!! This should be already available in ALL states!!!


The perp knows the search is going to happen, and wants to tease the searchers by placing clothing item there, so he could watch it be found. Ok, if he wanted to watch it be found, then he himself was also going to be among the searchers.
What a thrill to see everyone get excited about the find. He knew there was no hope of Morgan's body being found that day, so putting the shirt there would at least afford him the oportunity for a small thrill, even if he had to give up one of his "treasures"
He might also have put the leggings where they would be found, but that kind of backfired on him, so he had to go back there and retrieve them. Sooooo, who was anxious to get away after the search and did not stick around for coffee and commentary? Who left alone in a big hurry? And where did he then put the leggings????

Sorry the above comment was adressed to Mike.

Oh and curious to know if there was a DNA match with Cassandra Ann Morton and Sketch???
My Koolaid is just fine thank you!

Thank you Courteney for this great article . This is breaking ground technology and & I am so anxious for this to be utilized by LE everywhere. But the starting place is now VA following in the steps of the testing used to catch the Grim Sleeper. I do hate that we have become a society so caught up in the rights of the violent criminals over the rights of the victims.
I believe we should adopt the notion/theory that if you have committed a crime & are incarcerated & no longer a member of society at large , that your rights to privacy in the form of dna are Secondary to the rights of all victims in utilizing whatever is needed to solve those unsolved crimes.

DCDame, I have at times wondered if Morgan herself might have dropped things out the window as she was being abducted to leave clues for those whom she thought would be looking for her immediately, ie throw shirt in one place purse etc., another and leggings in another place. she might have thrown other things which have not been recovered.

Fear and Greed are two powerful opposing motivaters . Currently someone may know the solution to this puzzle but may be too afraid to come forward for a measly $150,000 .There are cases where the reward is worked on to be increased over time . Announcements of new increments of higher and higher reward is very good publicity and with the high profile of this case it would be straight forward to raise these funds . A revised reward over $ 300,000 and climbing would cause greed to kick in . The greed factor clouding calculations would quickly overcome a little fear . Visions of how much better life would be with "all that money" would ping the pangs of guilt bringing forward that someone with sufficient information to solve and prosecute .

The two sketches look a bit alike; however, as Courtney confirmed via the statement from Corrine Gellar the East Coast Rapist has nothing to do with the Morgan Harrington case. Morgan was ABDUCTED and MURDERED. From what I can gather the ECR simply found a close, convenient spot to commit the sexual assaults and let the women go. I realize that he faces a couple of abduction charges; however, I do not feel the M.O. is the same for the ECR and the individual that murdered Morgan Harrington.

S.Jones, You say that you do not believe the DNA was found on the Pantera Shirt. You are referring to Sketch, correct? It seems to me if the shirt was not being held by someone for some reason, then it would have turned up much earlier.
The location seems to be a big clue to me. Just as the Farm location seems very important.
If the shirt was "found" in the vicinity of the apartment building it would seem that there was a message being sent to someone living there. Does anyone see this? Thanks.

I wanted to apologize for misspelling Courteney's name in my previous comments. I also wanted to congratulate "The Hook" readers for keeping this thread on point and not digressing as was the case with the comment section on the previous Morgan Harrington article that appeared in "The Hook." I'm for exploring all options/scenarios. With that said, it is a much more pleasant reader experience without encountering some of the more outlandish theories being presented ad nauseam.

wonder if we will get nearly 700 completely pointless comments on this article too

I am interested in your comment. Did you read nearly 700 completely pointless comments on the other article, and have you read all the pointless comments on this article as well?
If so, what sort of comments are you looking for which will be true/make sense to you?
I am sure we would all be interested in you sharing your insights.

Get the State of Virginia bureaucrats off their butts!!! How hard can it be to set up a protocol? Call another State that already uses familial DNA and adapt what they do. Does Virginia always have to re-invent the wheel? Yep, because bureaucrats want to make people think they're necessary, and they suffer from "not invented here" syndrome.

OK....Personally I do believe the placement and location of the shirt are important, either to direct or mis-direct. When the group posted the composite picture of the Sketch they did so in the vicinity of where the shirt was found in addition to the campus areas and North Garden. But the other picture they put out there was of the necklace Morgan was wearing that night. Please, if anyone has it within them to also put copies of both of these out there, wherever you are, wherever you can, it may help catch this killer before he strikes again.

Something does not add up here:

According to an article posted on ABCs news site, "In August 2009, law enforcement officials in Virginia began efforts to use familial DNA in the search for the rapist. Police used a variety of new technologies to pinpoint Thomas...a controversial DNA technique that tests whether a suspect might be related to people whose DNA has been previously collected by police."

If this is true, I am still a bit befuddled why the same process used in Virginia as stated above, which was obviously effective in capturing the ECR, has not yet been used to date in Morgan's case? Why is it that proper protocols now need to be established, when they appeared to be in place in 2009 in Virginia?

Something does not add up here:

Thank you Cat, this is what I've been wondering also. What isn't set up yet? If it was used then, why not now?

Familial DNA WILL face challenges from the ACLU and people like John Rutherford, etc. This IS a good tool properly utilized. Many felons have family who are also felons. Sad fact, but thats just the way it is. Despite ones beliefs on state's rights, individual rights, and other "rights" the fact is convicted violent felons have no rights to their DNA. We're talking rapists, aggravated assaulters, murderers, and robbers here folks..not just some poor soul with a drug problem...These people are predators, they float among us, and they strike without conscience or remorse. Call your representatives and make it happen.

Cat --- Lots of featherbedding to get tax money building up local empires . Each dept likely wants all the toys so being human they seize an available opportunity . A well known case can be milked to get extra budget and tools of the trade . Speculation has it that the US Gov doesn't really want to find Bin Ladin but wants to use him to justify billions and billions of tax dollars and borrowed Chineese money to fund the foreign war business . As long as the MH case drags out without charges there is a ready made justification for added police funds ,more toys,more staff,more overtime,more promotions,more fringe benefits . There must be extreme jealousness and competition wtihin the myrid of overlapping agancies of Virginia . You name it ,they got it . Any tech method,system,device etc known to man which is used for crime solution ,spying,covert actions etc. clearly exists somewhere in Virginia .

SJones: Thank you. I understand where you are coming from. So, I feel the place the shirt was displayed must have significance. The Apartment Building: wonder If Morgan knew any of the renters? Knew anyone from music and party activities?
I like the idea of metal detectors. If, as JMe feels the necklace is important, maybe it should be looked for AGAIN.
I recall the mention of Morgan looking for her camera outside of JPJ while spilling the purse contents. It has bewildered me as to WHY she was looking for the camera THEN. Any thoughts?
Thank you.

Hope i am not straying too far OT but have noticed the similarities with the Fairfax sketch/ECR/and the Cleveland Texas 28 . Perhaps i should say the Cleveland Texas 28 and counting . The case of 28 mostly adults who are being charged for gang raping an 11 year old 6 grader . One of their idiot lawyers (who also resembles sketch) comes on and says there is evidence on consent on the part of the little girl . He figures threats of violence to comply is evidence of consent . He should have his licence to practice law revoked . Anyway more and more are added to the charged list but concurrently these evil beings continue to call the little girl's home demanding she be made available to them some more as they heap abuse on the parents ....some speculate MH may have been a victum of a similiar local element . Facts known publicly at this point of the entire situation suggests such speculation may not be overly far fetched ......A more lucrative reward of at least double the currant amount would be beneficial in view of the economic times to ferret out the single or multible scumball(s) . Lack of jobs,crack down on the crack business,higher costs for food . Gas going over FOUR dollars per gallon . Things are getting desperate,there has got to be a way for anyone of knowledge of this crime to get some money to pay the bills .....

@Cat: Unless I've missed something, that ABC article is inaccurate. I saw it before I ran my story and had the same questions. I called the Virginia State Police, the Harringtons, the Department of Forensic Science and the Prince William Commonwealth's Attorney asking about it. I was told by all that familial DNA was NOT used in the East Coast Rapist case. I'm also going to contact ABC. I believe they need to correct their story, but if I'm wrong, I'll report further. --Courteney Stuart

These inaccuracies from supposidly reputable news agencies is beginning to really bother me. How is it that they are able to give all these inaccurate statements and get away with it? Thanks Courtney for the info.

The similarities between the sketch, one of the three ECR sketches and some of the 28 is that the sketches look like generic black guys. The ECR doesn't really look like his sketches anyway.

Thank you Courteney,

In reviewing the issue a bit further, ABCNews did run a story back in August 2010 stating that:

"The Virginia Association of Commonwealth's Attorneys last week asked the state's Department of Forensic Science to use familial DNA to crack the case of the East Coast rapist"

Not sure if the above ever came to fruition, as not articles address the issue further, but I have seen other outlets report that Thomas was caught because his Brother’s DNA was in the database, which would make it appear that Familial DNA was used specifically in this case.

Why the contradiction?

Something does not add up of course, appreciate you trying to obtain clarification.

Those sketches are just what they are . Not pictures just a ball park guide referance which is helpful in ruling out roughly 99 % of the population .

Yet instead, the sketch to me looks like 99% of the population.

Well then that rules out 1 %

I guess I'm just not certain that the sketch is going to lead to an arrest. Awhile back, I felt that the Crying Rapist looked so much like the sketch that it just had to be him. DNA proved otherwise. I'm so afraid that even with this familial DNA that Morgan's murderer will still be unknown. I'm praying that won't be the way this all ends up.

Release of the sketch to the public might be counter productive to an arrest . It may actually cause Relocation Relocation Relocation .....

Relocation Relocation Relocation .....
If it hasn't already.

Relocation? Well, it seems we are damned if we do and damned if we don't. We are just asking for distribution of the composite...Heck, if we follow the example of the ECR case we should be posting a Billboard of this Sketch! Do we do it? Do we not do it? My vote goes towards what works in the past (ie. just this past week).

Jamie, we ARE damned if we do and damned if we don't. This entire case IMHO has been jepordized by LE withholding information, and also have many other cases in Virginia. I understand what they are up against, but in withholding info and giving out a sketch that could look like any person of any race, they aren't doing Morgan any justice. I've said this from the beginning, and one year later here we all are. Waiting........praying........hoping.

We have a picture of the necklace, that we have had almost from the beginning NOW being important, we have a t-shirt that was placed at 15th & Grady by someone that is now NOT important, we have a red camera that we should have been searching for all along and many of us have been doing that NOW being reported and VERY important. We know that a security guard at the door KNEW that Morgan was searching inside her purse for, but we don't know how he/she knew this. We have a security guard KNOWING something about this camera, not taking the time to allow Morgan back into the arena to search for it, let alone help her locate it. There is so much more, but you get my drift.

Ok...so it is best if we don't use the sketch composite? It is too generic? I will say...it tells me who Sketch is not. It is definitely not my neighbor's son next door. So we can rule out blonde haired, blue eyed under 20 types......
Unless....unless VSP didn't want that Sketch released because they know more than one person is involved...More than just Sketch could mean Blonde hair, blue eyes, male, female, young, old. All that composite means is that at least one person similar to that Sketch had contact with Morgan. But don't limit yourselves to thinking only about Sketch. We could be looking for a whole smorgasbord of people. Lots of dna could have been recovered, with only one person's matching a previous crime. Time will tell.


Q, So if there were several people close enough to leave dna with Morgan or her belongings, are you saying that it might be helpful if VSP would say...for instance...."we have also recovered from the scene - dna of " blank blank of blank blank descent" and dna of......etc etc" ?

YES!! I have more to say, but YES!!

OR, if something that didn't belong to Morgan, whatever it is, was found with her remains, give that information, someone just may be able to connect some dots.

WRT the ECR, there were three sketches done. Two of them do not look in the least like the ECR actually looks. In the case of the Fairfax rapist connected to Morgan Harrington by DNA, there is only one sketch. This one sketch may not look at all like the guilty party just as two of the sketches of the ECR did not prove to look like him (but they do look like other Thomas sex offenders interestingly enough) We are now able to see two actual photos (or so they say) of the ECR taken some 10 years apart. The most recent photo shows some very strange differences to the old photo, (other than a 25 lb weight reduction and less hair)
The ears in the latest photo appear to be sticking out way further than the 10 year old photo.
(there might be some medical condition to cause this) The indentation in the upper lip is deeper in the newest photo. (could a 25 lb weight change cause the lips to change?) The nose seems broader at the bottom in the latest photo, and the lips are wider and different shaped. The eyes seem wider apart in the 10 year old picture. The most startling difference is the ears! (also none of the sketches show huge protruding ears. I wonder why someone did not notice this feature, because it is very noticeable.
Back to the sketch we call "sketch" linked to Morgan. I would like to see someone who actually knew how to draw a human being fix the sketch a little to shape the eyes a bit and raise the brows a bit to at least give the possibility of sketch resembling someone human.

This is what I worry about, LE putting all their eggs in one basket, tunnel vision. Time IS precious, and their are precious young people that are in danger of being the NEXT one. Is that what LE is waiting for?

S. Jones, it is my understanding that all people under 38 already have their DNA on record
since birth. If the perp has offspring he could possibly be identified that way( I know it is probably illegal....everything helpful seems to be)
BTW if a peep is adopted there is a record of his bio parents and birth name. (if his bio dad is in jail he could be identified that way) All things are possible to those who want to find out stuff!

Q....do you remember a video made by Breeden called "playing with guns" or something like that? I cannot find it anymore on his site (unless I have the wrong person or title) Anyway, in my mind I remember a shadowy figure on the right (the other big boot guys were seated)
who was giggling,,,,well he reminds me of new LE guy (don't hit me)

Yes, I do remember that video. However I don't remember the other guy well enough to know.

When I said "time will tell", I was not referring to "Sketch" but to the possibility of multiple dna's being found in Morgan's case. We are focusing one one Sketch's dna. I mentioned the idea of VSP having more in addition to just that one. We do not know if they do, but perhaps, in time, it will be revealed.

All I hear on TV anymore, day and night is "WINNING!"

Jme...they might also have the DNA of a dog.

Q....re the Breeden video. Did you feel this video was totally innocent? Or, were you, like me somewhat suspicious they were making fun of Morgan (re the "she hit me first" line?

Actually, any video taken around that point in time could be construed as potential evidence of wrong doing. We were all looking for something out of the ordinary from those who live close to AF. So, totally innocent maybe not, but having to do with Morgan, in my opinion no.

Q, you are probably correct.

Jme ....do you think the placing of Morgan on site #41 had any significance?

I have a question, in 2007 this was proposed and granted. Why these particular parcels of land?

Mr. David Bass of Anchorage Farm has requested the withdrawal of Tax Map 88, Parcels 41A, 42A, 5A, 5, and 4. The withdrawal represents a loss of 653.947 acres from the Hardware District.

Staff Recommendation:

Staff has recommended approval of the renewal of both the Nortonsville Local and Hardware Agricultural and Forestal Districts. The Agricultural and Forestal Advisory Committee, at their meeting on July 16, 2007, recommended approval with the following conditions:

Tax Map 88, Parcels 41A, 42A, 5A, 5, and 4 (653.947 acres)

Could THIS be why? AF was used as a heliport for accidents etc?

LocID,Facility,Location,FLTWO,Tie-in Facility,Center

This is Anchorage Farm Field Airport, Warrenton, Texas -- NOT in Virginia


Ok, whew. I just remember that X formed by the trees where Morgan was found. Thank you much.

In regards to an earlier mention of metal detectors, I do imagine that Anchorage Farm has been covered. Funny it should be mentioned now though, as a group had planned on going to do that this weekend if it hadn't been for the "hacking" cough that is going around. Hopefully we will have that annoying bug taken care of with Dr. Bennett's "special cure"! Q, I think you have had this bug as well so I will send you the recipe. Gotta go, someone's tapping at the door.

SJones, Your post regarding the tip is RIGHT ON. There is apparently alot of fear preventing someone from collecting the reward. I like your approach. We assume that those who may know something have the confidence/ self esteem to make the call. That may well be a false assumption.
AIC Bond, The video you mention: Is this something from YouTube? Are these people in the general vicinity of AF? I would think they have been checked out if you and other know about the video, right? Thank you.

DCDame, The video AIC is referring to is full of viruses. People have clicked on it in the past and they are immediately slammed. If you google it, do not click! Even suggesting that subject on this forum is an like an invitation for people to infect their computers.

Jme, Many thanks..
What is your understanding about who was on premise at Anchorage Farm the night that Morgan disappeared? It has been stated that Mr. and Mrs. Bass were not home. Do you know? Were the other residences occupied?

Bundy gave the investigators clues in the MO of a rapist murderer that was helpfull in catching The Green River killer . This ECR looks like the composite drawing of the Fairfax rapist 2005 and POI in MH homicide . The ECR lives in the same area and has been active in his criminal assaults during this time period in Fairfax and a wider but specific area . I would think like any other activity he would be on the lookout for his competition,may network with fellow similiar offenders be they relatives or acquantiances . He acts like some type of animal doing as he feels to those he feels like within his territory .He would likely have a good knowledge of others doing similiar activities within his chosen territory perhaps at times violating common victums . Vulnerable peeps surviving an attack no doubt remain vulnerable and are attacked again by another preditor . .. I won't use the dog metaphor as i don't want to insult our dog friends . This animal is of a sub human form of evil being . He has language ability ,however,and is talkative . A reasonable hunch would be that he could have usable information with regards to the ID of the MH (sketch) case ,his habits,line of work,where he lives, hangs out ,hobbies .

The ECR, was a Jekyll/Hyde personality, changed his appearance often, changed his language to Caribbean accent and a variety of weapons, he road a bicycle when committing the crimes and was a truck driver and deliveryman. Now, one has to ask, could this profile fit Morgan's killers profile, I say yes. I don't know that he would have known the person that VSP is searching for in Charlottesville, but I will say Frank, you are correct, his habits and everything that he was into would be VERY important to research.

In June 2001, Thomas was arrested for domestic assault and battery on a woman he lived with in Dale City. Prince William County court documents show that the woman said Thomas grabbed her by the throat and pushed her into a bathroom, breaking a window. Thomas told police at the time that he "did not grab her but they were wrestling."

The Dale City address is about two miles from where the Halloween 2009 attack happened.

The woman, whom the Post is not identifying because she was the victim of a crime, had shared an address with Thomas along Route 1 in the Alexandria section of Fairfax County, very close to the rapes that occurred there at about that time.

Particularly noteworthy about the June 2001 assault arrest was that it came just weeks after the East Coast Rapist attacked a Leesburg woman in her empty apartment as she was moving out, threatening her with a screwdriver and disappearing with all of her clothes. That attack was not far from where Thomas has family in Clarke County, Va.
Also, VSP has it's hands full, because they need to look backwards and forwards to any domestic relationship arrests in 2005, close to where the rape in Fairfax took place. The same with Morgan's assault.

One other thing that just came to me, then I'll shut up for awhile. Just because the ECR DNA doesn't match sketch, DOESN'T mean that it still isn't possible that this man isn't somehow invovled with Morgan's case. If there were two people involved, he just COULD be that second person.

Q1, Yes he could....and he could also know Sketch and have left something of his behind at the scene to implicate Sketch. I wonder what delivery route the ECR drove into Va. How far South? To what depot?

They look alike and act alike and both were fishing in the same pool . There must be a connection that they are both aware of . These types most probably can spot another of the same ilk when they are out and about trolling . They would be cunning and observant to a fault .No doubt they have similiar habits ,chemistry , speak the same language , would cross one another's path ,and perhaps bond . Sharing of willing victums likely takes them closer . The Texas 28 have similiar traits along with a common thread of basketball .This talkative suspected ECR is a veteran within the geographic area . He claims these preditors are obvious and wondered why he wasn't picked up much earlier . On ocassion the right criminal who is handled properly can clear up many police mysteries . Their own involvement ,knowledge of others involvement ,and knowledge of methodology can at first be beyond belief of LE.

Check this one out:

Police allege trucker charged in SC attack is serial rapist

A truck driver arrested last month and charged with sexually assaulting a Columbia woman has been linked to other attacks on women from Virginia to California, according to police.

Richland County Sheriff Leon Lott said Thursday that investigators have spoken to five women who reported being attacked by Cornelius Julian Howard Jr., a 35-year-old independent trucker from Virginia.

I don't understand why the t-shirt is deemed less important...I mean whoever placed the t-shirt there (not the dude who recovered it) had to get it from someone/somewhere. Why not smoke him out and see if he talks?


Frank S., Q, J.me, AIC and DC.

Do you think it is possible the planting of the t-shirt was to mark his territory? Fairfax and the Counties up North, well seems both ECR have struck there. Could he be spraying his territory? A third with Pham.

Also, cousins are not always blood cousins.
Great point Frank. You have thought about this, so would it be a dumpster diver or more direct display? Now, at the walk with Courteney we were not told of a give and take. Did Courteney or some one ask about the t-shirt? It seemed to be omitted by all reporters and the tapes I saw.

Is it possible that they have the answer to who placed the t-shirt? And from that information they are seeking another tip that fits the time line and conditions?

I know it is only one possible theory Frank. I am incline to look at all of them with an open mind, yours is possible. The girl friend is plausible, maybe there is a little of both
Then the camera and necklace become point traits in a sick game. Often killers say they will leave signature, in the mob it is to claim the money. Ever see the ICEman, he is real and not fictional?

Maybe Pham was part of a game, so sad. A territorial flag to run up the flagpole.
Many thoughts, lets keep churning.

JAB: me too!

I've spent many hours looking at the Vanessa Pham video. To me it looks as though a certain vehicle goes around a truck preparing to turn left into a lane for parking their vehicle and another car passes that truck on the right. At the same time Vanessa's car is just getting to that point, she sees the vehicle at the last moment rounding the truck, and she breaks, then gives the driver a look or more. The driver then turns around and goes down another lane and is behind Vanessa as she goes to make her turn. The video stops at that point so we aren't aware of which way that driver turned, but it appeared as if he/she turned in the same direction. I may be totally wrong, but it looks almost like a road rage senario. What doesn't make sense is where her car was found, with her inside.

Q: I see it that way to on the surface. Just that some one 10 days before the act, pointed to 2005 and a victim. This was before sketch was release to the public by anyone. I had the image, just because I had about 65 unsolved and unidentified sketches, but me and 3 other people zeroed in on it. It was just a little far fetched to predict that a 2005 "living victim" was going to come into play. I do not believe in conspiracies, but this was almost like a signal to someone. A signal to prove your self.

I know it sounds sick, but I am not the only one that was not surprised about the Sketch or another act of violence. Road rage could be a great cover, but stabbing may have been the way for this person to put the signature on it.

Far fetched, I agree. But isn't everything here far fetched? I am open to whatever it takes. Just as FrankS was for so long discredited, I am listening and he is making good points. Most people on this article are. It is the spirit of cooperation that may lead us to finding something.

Maybe it will not work, but I know there are a few of us are going to keep on trying. Morgan and possible future victims deserve for us to try. We do have a common goal!

Me being discredited is a myth LOL .

I don't see that anyone should discredit you Frank, I read everything that you've written.

LOL, it was paraphrase of your comments this month. That crap was a while back I never took part in it! Your good, the proof is in your words.
You sure do not need my approval or anyone’s.

Gil Harrington was quoted in a March 17th article

http://www.readthehook.com/68346/shattered-bones-harringtons-say-morgans... saying,

"He chooses to kill in a savage and brutal way," says Gil Harrington, an oncology nurse, of her daughter's killer, "to break her bones before he murdered her." Dan Harrington, a psychiatrist, confirms

This particular subject has always bothered me. What was Morgan forced to endure before her death? What could have caused broken and shattered bones? I can't imagine what force would have been used to cause this outcome. In my opinion this is a clue as to who or what kind of person could have committed this horrific crime.

I sure would like to have the FBI's ability to go through ECR's computers and electronic footprints for the last dozen years. The phone records, co-workers, hotels, routes and dates.

Now that would be sweet. Maybe even his movie rental records and credit card purchases. How far south and west did he go, maybe he has buddies and they share like pedophiles do?

Halloween 2009, Virginal. ECR and sketch Oct 17th. Boy I would like see this.

Off Topic:

I just heard that Fairfax, Va is sending people over to Japan to help in the rescue operations in the wake of the Tsunami, God speed!! This is terrible.

.Cat: I assume this is the headline:
"Rapist suspect caught using familial DNA”

Not credited to a reporter, but the use of the ABC logo.
You and Courteney are so correct. Heads should fall; this is unethical and perhaps illegal.
CT and VA LE should file criminal charges. This bad information could lead to a judge saying the jury pool has been spoiled. For any so called news organization to pint this is horrible. A defense attorney can possibly get the release of this man.

I have read your opinion and if this is only one report, then a serial rapist may go free. Not only that, it may cause serious set backs for Virginia with the present active investigations.
Thank you Cat for point this out, it maybe slander as to LE. This is just unbelievable; your concern is well founded.

I hope Courteney will keep us posted.

Yes S. Jones, it appears that news outlets indicating that Familial DNA was specifically used was fairly rampant, especially early on.

ISSUES WITH JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, which aired on March 7, 2011:

"DNA connected Thomas to one dozen rapes and sexual assaults. Police zeroed in on him after posting digital billboards and getting a detailed hot tip. They also used familial DNA. We`re going to tell you all about that. That`s where they can pinpoint a perp by seeing if they can match DNA from a crime scene to any relative who`s already in the system."

The transcript continues to quote Paul Ebert:

"PAUL EBERT, COMMONWEALTH`S ATTORNEY, PRINCE WILLIAM COUNTY, VIRGINIA: We know one of his family members had been arrested well prior to these -- at least some of these crimes. And we know that his DNA was in the database in Connecticut. Now, if that had been available, and that familial DNA program was available, why, he would have been identified at that time."

As you can see based on Ebert's quote, Jane V-M was misinterpreting or using his quote out of context. Ebert specifically states that IF familial DNA program was available. Typical half-brained reporting that has become quite common is deplorable, especially on the high-profile networks. Some sort of action should be taken against them.

AICBond, Je suis tellement heureux que vous êtes intéressé par Morgan. Soins de me dire pourquoi?


SJones, PLEASE expand and explain your post, as I am very interested and think you bring up some very valid points for consideration. I am not sure what you mean. Maybe I am not as up to speed as I should be.
I feel that we are all trying very hard to figure this out. The shirt is a real thorn in the side. I do feel it is very important and speaks to an even larger situation involving a very tragic murder of an innocent victim.

SJones, Are you suggesting that the murder of Pham was in some fashion a form of intimidation towards people who could ID the perp ----or a signal for continued silence about Morgan's murder? Am I overanalyzing your words? Thank you in advance.

Cat: These so-called standard bearers for women and the abuse have just proved that money is their goal!

I am shocked, JVM is supposed to be having a legal background. As is NG, this is just appalling. I will pursue this. They are lightweights and frauds; I will put it to the test. The VSP should demand a retraction. If they say they have a source inside, suggesting they circumvented protocol, then Familia DNA just suffered a defeat.

I would like to see CT and VA attorney generals pursue this misrepresentation. Expose the money grubbing false representation of them being standard bearers for justice. This is appalling. If LE did circumvent the procedures, then the supreme courts of both states as well as district federal courts will be forced to set back the enactment of this process.

Hurting the Harringtons and possibly allowing further victims. How many more times do the perps get to celebrate? They take the young women’s innocence, take their lives. Then their egos are inflated. It makes be sick!

Everyone should call the national offices of CNN HNN and ABC. Then call the Attorney Generals. If the ECR goes free, put them in for obstruction of justice.

If there is another victim, sue JVM and ABC.

I will rest now!

Jme, I speak French.

DCDame, Bon...can you answer for them?

No, Jme...I do not know them....I do find it so odd that you would write to someone in French...Why? I wanted you to know that I could read what you wrote, as I assumed you were trying to write to AIC "privately"????

D C: I had a personal meeting with LE. I am just tired of dancing around. They are aware and they are very well versed. As I understand it, and I do see there point. There are Dreamers and Bible salesmen that do home work to sound as if they have private information. LE believes this is the case; after all I had the sketch, 1 of 60 plus. But the word "ASIA" was used.

I do not know, I just do not know. But there were several that had it on the radar.

With Franks thoughts as I see them, it seem plausible but only another theory. I am not going to address the printed post. There are others that tempt me with so called inside information.

They play a sick game, if you read just the last month of comments you will see it displayed.

I did receive tips; I have had conversations with many. I am no longer taking tips. Give them to Lt. Rader's team. They will know, as that I let them have almost everything but names. But the people were in no way a part of any crime. I do not have a journalist’s ability to protect sources. So, I ask for no names and no return numbers. At that time I did not have caller ID.

I have for months understood why Rader's team is so careful.

Sjones, Yes. I imagine the Dreamers and Bible Salesmen take alot of their precious time and manpower. I know there are relationships that I do not understand between those that post. I want the dialogue to remain mature and cooperative. As you stated so well: we must cooperate for a common goal of helping to get this monster put away.
SJones, How did you collect tips? How did people know to contact you? You do seem well connected and legitimate as well as principled. Thank you for your patience and all of the work you seem to be doing.
It sounds as if you have had people come to you with trust that you will not expose them, after they give you valued info for LE...I respect that and am glad you are working so hard for this victim and her family.

LOL...sorry DC, There is no privacy on a public forum. Thanks for answering me though! I hope that AICBond will as well.

This T-shirt thing has me intrigued now. I am assuming they sold Metallica t-shirts at the Concert. Many people like to buy t-shirts while at the concert. Perhaps Morgan bought a t-shirt. Perhaps the Pantera shirt got wet. Who makes the Metallica shirts? Who sells them?

Well, I support the friends. I spoke the truth, I have a porven track record and I will listen.
Now, that someone adressed you. Would you care to traslate the post. If so, I would really like it. Tired of any games!

Seems childish.

If anyone needs to contact me with facts. Do the obvious.I have stated I have spoken to VSP and FBI. They are not an answering service, but if it is a condition that they think is viable I am avalible. But they will know who you are.
If it is fts I will tell them. if it is theory, they do not want it.There are other ways, I have been at this for 40 years and it does work. VSP knows.

The replacement top is not a Metallica shirt. Bank on it!

SJones, I appreciate your candor. Thank you. Is there a direction that you feel is not being explored? not being taken seriously? how can people help to brainstorm? your opinion is valued. Thanks.

Can you explain?

The post in question is not a game. Just a lighthearted way of asking someone how they got interested in Morgan's case. I have lived through 18 months of coded posts that are cryptic and bizarre. For once I decided to try asking a question in someone else's language.
Why would the replacement top not be a Metallica shirt?

Jme, for those of us who are not part of the "history" of bizarre and cryptic, it was a little odd....let's move on...
I like the maturity exhibited here. I think we are all working on a common goal and we need to continue the synergy.
I want to know the answer also to your question about the shirt...SJones, please explain...Thanks.

Yes DC, you are right. I was not thinking. So Sorry.

Put the message out. This is the direction. Do not let someone think that the truth will come out in time due to familia DNA so that they cannot rationalize that there is no need to turn in the tip.

Insist, emphasize we need help from someone that saw or heard something. Time is important. That has been the direction. Look at recent deaths, is someone eliminating or intimidating witnesses.

Trust Rader’s team or the FBI or Ms. Stewart. I promise they are not mean, they will not think you re nuts. They will respond in voice or person. No, not in one day or a week. You can trust them. Rader’s team does not have tunnel vision; I speak from personal experience.

Now contiue on, I am focusing on Cat's concern, it is very important.

Jme, Do you think that we should interpret Gil H's words as fact? I am referencing the words posted above by Taylor....What do you think?

TaylorR March 11th, 2011 | 6:20pm
Gil Harrington was quoted in a March 17th article




SJones, Do you feel The victim, Ms. Pham, could have been an eliminated witness?

Yes Q. In court or to Rader or Dino. I expect to be there.

DC, I do not believe Gil would have used those words if she had not believed them with all her heart. Likewise with Dan.

SJones, are you saying that you know as a certainty that the Pantera T-shirt was taken off Morgan and replaced with another one, NOT a Metallica one?

I just want to say that all of you are my heroes in fighting crime. Thank you for the fine work you do. May God Bless each of you.

Devastating. It would stand to reason someone could be very fearful of this monster.

Curious George, and you as well.

All of you seem so knowledgeable. Again, it's a joy to read. Detective work is a tough line or work.

.No, Pham's murder is probably not related to either ECR or Morgan. It is following up on Frank’s theory:

A challenge between 2 sick people. I stated far-fetched. I am open to Frank's theory. I am opened minded, just today he enlighten me. That is what I hope we are doing. I asked for people to look at tracks and hi-railers. I never insisted I was tied to it. So, I am listening to others.

The more brain storming the better. It comes back to t-shirt placement. I feel that it was an innocent girl friend. It could be frank's dumpster diver or a signal. If it is a signal, then perhaps another signal was prove your self with a knife. These are just brainstorming. The garment with Morgan is not brainstorming.

My version of location, Location, Location.

Fairfax was involved with Sketch, involved with Pham, seemingly involved somehow with ECR. It is just a theory.


Wow 40 years?? Were you LE during this time?? I totally admire men and women that put their lives on the line. Thank you.

SJones, I believe we must be open minded. It is all in unless it is out.
I ask you why an innocent girlfriend would put a Tshirt on a bush----was she saying, " I know whose shirt this is and I know you had it"?? or was it placed there by someone who knows the killer will see it when he comes home or goes to work? As a reminder to toe the line?

SJones, Was a shirt found with Morgan's remains? Is that what you are saying?

Yes George, tougher still when one realizes our girls are still prey for this kind of killer...

J.Me, I agree. Hopefully they will catch him soon. Sounds like some of you know a great deal about this case. How did everyone get so involved?? Again, I am glad people are searching for answers. Seems Morgan's case has drawn a lot of attention.

DC, I too would like to know why one would feel so sure that a Metallica shirt was not the "replacement shirt".


Another good question. You guys are great!!!

C G: It is not about me. Just DC asked, long before the internet you build relationships. I have spent time working to defend accuse people. I can be cold and focused. For every one I turn off, I get supprising results from witnesses. I tell them, I explain it. I walk them through it.

I can no longer do that in this case. It is up to VSP! They will do it. If asked I will help as I wish any potential witness would do.

If someone is willing to walk in to the police staion, as many responcible people have, I have no place. It is those that are scared, usually worried abut there kids or appearances. That is where I came in.ther are many like me. There is nothing special, have faith in your fellow man and woman.

George, This is the very question I was asking AICBond earlier. I suppose he/she is working this evening. I was hoping to find that they are retired FBI with resources to help. Perhaps we will find out more tomorrow. The Lord knows we can use all the help we can get. May HE protect the girls who are vulnerable. Perhaps prayer is our biggest hope.

I agree SJones, does this mean you were a defense attorney at one time?? That would be tough work as well. I know I couldn't do it. I realize someone has to do it though. I am curious about the shirt as well. Thanks again to everyone.

I wonder where AICBond is this evening, kinda miss his input.

So many crimes out there. It is a shame we live in a society where no one is safe anymore. If some of you are ex LE and can help solve this case and the many others across the country my hat is off to you. We need more people like that.

Sjones, I am understanding now. Thank you. Please explain to us what you mean about the shirt. I am confused, as it seems are others from their posts. You are patient and I appreciate that trait!
Jme, Yes, we can use alot of help!


I am new to this, who is A1CBond??

Curious George, Yes! So true.
By the way, I love your "name"..

Curious, he is a regular poster on the thread.

Just a fellow poster who is nomally here each day, Curious George.

The shirt...we were talking about the replacement shirt....and why would it not be a Metallica shirt....

What kind of shirt would it have been then?? She was at Metallica concert.

I am not an attorney. AIC has a very good heart!
There need be no more confussion for people to say I saw a young blond girl wearing a Metalica shirt after 13.000 people attended a Metallica concert. Do not throw that out there.

Let VSP handle that, already to much speculation. If it is a tip, they know how to filer the real ones. End of subject! Are you starting to see what VSP and FBI is up against. We see bad reporting [not by Ms. Stewert]. As Geller has said, they spend to much time debunking information. Focus, a vehicle, the necklace and strange things in strange places. Please.

I don't know George. Perhaps one of the witnesses has specified it was some other kind.

Sorry, guess I misunderstood what you meant. You said you had been doing this for 40 years. That's a long time. Just figured you were in that line of work. Still don't understand what you meant about the tshirt but that's ok. Thanks for responding.

S.Jones March 11th, 2011 | 10:16pm

S.Jones March 11th, 2011 | 10:40pm
I don't think we would still be asking how you know this as a certainty had you not made these statements.

I do see what LE and the FBI are up against if they have people talking to their witnesses. I see what you mean. Now, about the shirt.....?

S.Jones March 11th, 2011 | 10:16pm

Good point Q.

S.Jones March 11th, 2011 | 10:40pm

It is not for discussion on the internet or e-mail or via 3rd party.
I am certain that a Metallica shirt on a blond girl will not norrow down any sightings. The relpacement top exsistance has not been released. Theories are theories. To take a theory and dicuss it as fact is not productive. Read the words.

If there is a replacement top, not all men's or women's upper garments are t-shirts. Has Bass discribed an upper garment, did he state the lack of one? Did VSP? Did Gil? Did Ms.Stewert?
Did the newspaper lady? Did thee female at Sheetz?

So why start misinformation?

Because YOU stated it, almost as fact!!!!!!!!!!

J.Me, There are several reasons why anyone would be interested in this case. I'm not sure why you singled out AIC Bond, but I can tell you why some folks are interested. You may not like my answers, but they are honest.

It involves a young, beautiful girl being abducted in the prime of her life and found murdered. It is also unsolved. The unknown is interesting to people--remember the show that was on for ages "Unsolved Mysteries?" It was popular largely because the unknown--the unsolved--is interesting to people. As sad and "wrong" as it may be, it is undeniable that true crime is entertainment for some folks. I'm not endorsing the concept, but just being honest. They follow the twists and turns to the cases like some folks follow their favorite t.v. shows.

A lot of us were drawn to Dan and Gil and follow this case for them. I think they are wonderful, upstanding members of society. You hear them or see them on the tv shows, and your heart breaks in two that such good folks could have such a tragedy befall them. Some of us also relate to Morgan--maybe we partied a little in college and/or had similar interests as Morgan and there was that "WOW! That could have been me!" moment. Looking at her pictures, it's difficult to imagine someone so full of life could be snuffed out--makes one want to find the monster who did this and strangle him with one's bare hands.

There's a huge reward! Most of us aren't Paris Hilton--getting 150,000 to show up at a club in Vegas. That kind of money would be life-changing to most of us especially in this economy. I think this is the motivating factor for some folks--not necessarily the purest intentions, but I imagine some are after it. In fact, I know some are as I've seen them state it straight out in forums, blogs, etc.

Some of us care about as Gil so eloquently put it, "the next girl." We wish to protect our girls and our communities by getting this creep off the streets and into the prison or for some the death chamber of a prison via capital punishment.

I know you weren't asking me specifically, but I'd dare to guess AIC Bond's reason(s) responsibly for her interest in the case lies somewhere in the above mentioned reasons.

And who contacted who first? Hypothetical? Are you suggesting that I misrepresent? J.me, you know more, so stop it!

The question about the t-shirt was not asked for the reasons you have expressed. It was brought up because of the question about who might have been there selling Metallica shirts. If Morgan had bought one, who did she buy it from? And When? It makes perfect sense for her to have done this if her Pantera shirt was wet. Would you not notice a beautiful blonde in a wet t-shirt?


So this was just a theory??

JAB, I do appreciate your reasons. There is a reason I asked the question in the way I did. I am not totally blind, or inconsiderate. Most people have altruistic reasons for being here. I realize that. I just wish that all of them did but alas, I do not think that is the case. Some just seem to have more "knowledge" than others.

I didn't see anything wrong asking about why he/she thought the replacement shirt was not a metallica shirt. Nothing at all. Sounds like these people are very knowledgeable folks.

Wow, I just went back and read all the posts. Great discussions.

I'm very confused, I think I've had enough for tonight, be safe all.

Goodnight everyone. I learned a great deal from all of you.

Are you suggesting she changed into the shirt before she walked on the bidge? It is possible she had the back pack as Dino stated. he said if it were straped on i t mynot have been visable to the mutiple witnesses. if that is the case, I'll hear you out. But, i think at best it is speculation, still worth a shot. But if she did, then that shirt would be wet too? And that would be the shirt that was planted, I suppose.

I know of no mention of her buying a shirt, maybe ou know someting i do not. i suppose someone could hve given her one. seems that when she emptoed her purse mutiple times and was looking fo a camera and a ticket in pieces the witness might have noticed that.

It she went to the bridge after lossing the purse, than what. It does not seem to be fruitful to explore. If VSP has such a shirt, they would be wise not to release that info, agreed?

Lets review:
"J.me March 11th, 2011 | 10:07pm

is not a fact

Based on perhaps as entetaining a theory

S.Jones March 11th, 2011 | 10:16pm

Now, I was not playing games. I answered.

DC Dame ask me about the direction. my answer was stated and it does not include a damn Metallica T-shirt. She asked my opinion.

I said what I know!

If Rader has problems with my statement we will talk, he and I.

The direction in my opinion is a tip and the necklace.

We have Cat's concerns, Familia DNA and crossover of seemenly 3 different crimianls in the same area active. is some think a Metallica shirt after a Metallica concert is as important then fine. Why not a LOG shirt or the other band?

I do not get it,
I do not want to digress, but I have seen this display:
It was bigfoots sister, catching a girl falling from a stealth bomber with a patron bottle. A clown with crowbar and secret service hunting a girl in the field.

I am sorry C G and DC, but i have seen this before and it is not productive, at least to me.
Secret airports that turn out to be in Texas.

Oh, Rader, I feel your pain.

Then we have Cat, Frank, DC. Poor D C and CG, they do not see the resentment or history of what was supposed to be long ago events.

J.Me., I know you are a very knowledgeable and caring poster. You have my respect. I didn't meant to come off rude--I just see a lot of posters (mostly out-of-the-state or out-of-the-country posters) get the "Why are you interested?" or the "You're so interested maybe LE should check you out." I've not seen you do this repetitively so perhaps I shouldn't have addressed my post to you, but instead just the people, in general, who find it necessary to ask such questions to people that aren't in close geographical proximity to the crime. My question to them is, "Morgan was such an awesome girl, why wouldn't everybody be interested in justice for her?"

Also, I saw on FB today that Kenny was concerned about e-mails being compromised. Was he talking about everyone in the "Help Find Morgan Dana Harrington" FB page or just a certain few. Do we all need to change our passwords? I changed mine as a precautionary measure, but if this is the case, I feel like someone should (if they haven't already) let the page members know. I have a huge amount of respect and admiration for Kenny and the mods that run that page--reason I chose to post this here is because I don't post at all on the FB page due to not wanting to use my real name (let's face it there have been some real fruit loops following this case and privacy is important to me online and otherwise) J.Me, you seemed to allude to a hack earlier and info ending up over here--if that is true I hope you find out who did it and why. You, and all affected, might want to consider some extra Internet security measure. Hackers are to be taken very seriously--I had one get into my online banking last year and it was a mess!

J.me is a very good person. I split my time between Memphis and L.A. She will undestand, she has never expressed a negitive to people outside of the state. the grim Reaper is here. so L.A is perfect for familia DNA, But every area has crimes. I find you refreshing I am sure she does too!

Sometimes her and I fight like brothers and sisters. I think she is great, If not I would not respond to her. So, I am sorry if I made you feel unconfortable, you were not piling on.your post are very good. Just today,other publictions frustrated many of us!.

I am sorrry I digressed, it served no good purpose.

Kenny is a good guy. I have never posted on the Facebook site. There are people in the past that do have mutiple screen names. Many have complained about hacking. Take Kenny's advise. He has a very big heart!

SJones, Thank you. I am interested in what you are posting. I am also so envious that you live in Memphis. Love that magical place!
We need a tip. No doubt about that. If a tip does not come with the sizable reward, then we have to wonder: Is the person too fearful? Is the possible witness no longer alive?
I still wonder about the train tracks and if anyone hanging around saw her with someone.
You mention the newspaper lady above in your post. I thought she seemed credible. What did you think? I would welcome your thoughts.

Thank you all for understanding. I am sorry for the confusion. And yes, we have had some VERY curious things happen lately. Yes, things that were in private e-mails were used here. I for one spent the better half of my afternoon at my computer doc's office yesterday. No, I do not think people on fb's Morgan page are at risk at all. I believe they have their targets of people they "think" have the most information. Not that I have anything too valuable, but luckily I have saved everything elsewhere other than on my computer.
Mr. Jones and I do tend to behave like brother and sister. Perhaps in a past life, if you believe in that sort of thing. I am glad he could see where I was coming from with the t-shirt. I still believe the Pantera shirt would have been the one displayed only because it is the one most talked about in the press.
DCDame, I too believe the railroad tracks are important. The newspaper woman as well. perhaps.

I am at a loss over the Metallica t-shirt. Yesterday was the first I have heard of it. Obviously, it hasn't been confirmed by VSP or Courteney I haven't read mention of it in Gil's blogs either. Is it just speculation, theory, witness recollection? If you would rather not say, I understand. I'm just trying to separate the facts or "absolutes" as Ms. Gellar says from the theories. Thanks in advance.

J.Me, Glad you saw your computer doc! I hate that you got hacked in the first place--very scary stuff (to me at least!) I hope the hacker didn't get too much info--some info just doesn't belong on the public forums--I know you all will agree.

Jme, VERY disturbing that your computer was compromised. Why would someone do that? I am not privy to the past behaviors of some, nor do I care, but I am sorry it has been a rough road and a hassle for those who work to try to help LE.
It is not popular to say that I believed what the newspaper woman claimed. I assume that LE checked and checked and know it is not relevant. I felt her passion was quite convincing. I do not, of course, know the entire background story.
The shirt discussion is very confusing, but perhaps that is the way it is to remain. I would like to know anyone's impression of the Pantera shirt being placed at THAT place and at that time. I thought SJones made some very good thinking points with regard to signals to others, warnings to others. I wonder if anyone else feels this was a crime perpetrated by more than one person?

This is another thought---what about the folks that don't have access to Internet, TV, etc. I know "The Hook" is free, but if you're not necessarily the "newsy" type or interested in community events, etc. would they pick up a copy? I know there are fliers everywhere in Albemarle County, but if you main focus is survival, would you even read the flier and put the two and two together? They might not connect the necklace or camera they acquired with the murdered girl on the flier. Is there anyway to target these folks and educate them?

Also, I'm not sure about the ethnic make-up of Albemarle, but have any of the fliers been written in Spanish? Theoretically, the person that could solve the whole case could not even be able to read the fliers, the Hook, or even understand the nightly news.

I saved this comment regarding t-shirts awhile back . I will not post the name of the person/people who posted it since the forum is closed anyway:
"...did something happen in the investigation at that date that prompted him to throw a red herring? (maybe getting too close to AF)
I read in the comments that someone was standing next to Morgan where you could buy fanclub t shirts, she didnt appear 'high' were the exact words. Could it be she had that shirt with her. And it was cold outside so what do you do? put it on so she might be wearing a Metallica shirt after a certain time. Why is it important?
Maybe someone saw a blonde wearing a Metallica shirt and it was discounted ."

"Yes ______,
A very good point! I would be interested to know if Morgan did buy a t-shirt (they let my daughter use her debit card last week). Also, if the only t-shirts for purchase were the standard male or female shirts, would fashion-conscience Morgan put it over her cute outfit? You know how us females suffer for fashion.
He is a sly one, this devil. Putting the t-shirt in C-ville to keep the focus there. I did hear somewhere (no idea now on where) that search area was due to spread out. I can't remember the specifics, though. Does anyone recall that? I know that some people on this forum were on the search teams."
These were the comments that prompted me to think Morgan had another t-shirt with her that she may have changed into. I do not know. But the suggestion of it has always bothered me.


I feel like answering you in Dutch or Pigmy, but I will resist! (most Canadians do not speak French)
Morgan is a powerful Thetan.
I am of the belief that she wants her tormentors brought to justice.
I first heard of Morgan on CNN. My first thought/intuition was that of her falling off the bridge.
I expected to hear on the news very early on that LE had found her in bushes by tracks.
When that did not happen, I became very curious. Since I trust my intuition to some extent anyway, I began to search in all directions.
I was very interested in Gil's words (as I suspect she "knows" on some level, what happened to her beloved daughter) Gill said things like "my father was a diplomatic courier" , " Morgan was a sacrificial lamb" "Morgans bones were crushed" "Morgan was used for a sperm rag" and so on. She put it all out there, baring her soul and her heart, She did not care, her daughter was dead, and nothing else was as important as finding her killers! (this is the impression that I got of Gill. I respect her a great deal. (I have a daughter. It is called empathy) I try to give my honest opinions and thoughts, but they are not always well received, and I can understand why, but I do not worry about it, because my main goal
is to see murderers caught and off the streets where they cannot harm another child/woman.
The answers are there. It seems they are hidden just out of sight.
And yes, I suspect a huge coverup by someone/someones. I think this because what should have been a very quick recovery of Morgan turned out to be just the oposite. WHY???
(this is all I feel like saying for now)


Jme are you sure we are talking about the same video? I have been to the site (Biscuit Run Studios) several times, in the past and recently, and my computer did not get infected.
(the video I am talking about is no longer there (that I can see anyway)
It does not make any kind of sense to me that an artist/sculptor, such as Breeden would infect his site with viruses when he is trying to sell paintings and raise money for his big dragon guy. Why would he do that? It would be self destructive.
(now there was a site which did have a lot of viruses when you clicked on it, and that was the site of Christen Allan Iman, the one who posted the pics of a gunman in battle fatigues with rifle etc., and called his photos #41, and #42) (they have long since been removed, but they were up for quite a while about a year ago.)

Q. Did your computer get infected when you clicked on the Breeden site?

I will ask you the same question in English. Why/how did you first become interested in Morgan? (you have put in countless thousands more hours than I have) I have long suspected that you were in love with the doc.

In love with the doc?? That's a pretty strange comment. Care to explain?? For us newcomers to this site I find that pretty tasteless to say.

I AM in love with A doc....LOL...My husband!
Seriously, I will tell you how I became interested. We were at a function for doctors and nurses the evening of Oct. 18, 2009. My husband had just finished his rotation as president of an organization of doctors here. One of the key guests was to be Dan Harrington and Gil. They immediately came to us when we arrived and said that the Harringtons would not be there, as their daughter was missing. We had very good friends there that night who work with Dan. My husband's cousin was also Gil's roommate in school. Immediately I felt the need to reach out to them. I have a daughter of my own. Our community here is very tight knit. I have not stopped supporting them since that time. I have since met the nicest people who also have chosen to support this family. We, in turn, support each other. My family has chosen to participate in or attend most of the benefits for Morgan and OMNI. I will see this through to the end. It seems most here feel the same. I do thank Courteney and all here who are doing this. May this man be prevented from doing this again.

Curious Mikey, you are not a newcomer!
And no, I do not care to explain. (other than that I was asked for thoughts from Jme. If you want to hear my thoughts you will hear all of them)

So emails are being hacked into?? Has that been turned over to the authorities?? Something sounds pretty strange. Hope you guys get to the bottom of it.

Mikey??? What are you talking about A1C??

Thank you for your very honest answer. The truth is good.

Curious, Jones knows what I am talking about. Now, I really have to get some work done, and do not wish to continue on this path.
(I do not see it being helpful)
JFM soon.

You just may find my comments interesting today, we shall see.

Glad someone does because I sure don't. But you are right not very helpful. Have a good day A1C. But I am not Mikey or whoever that is.

Questioner1, who is Mikey?

Being hacked, well, many have been wondering why Team Morgan is still on maintance mode. I placed it that way on Feb 28th because there had been many people on the forum who's computers had been compromised, and actually mine went down totally. We had various problems such as photobuckets missing pictures, etc. Then at the same time pictures were disappearing from Team Morgan. Why anyone would care to do something like this was a huge question, why then, was it something that we all had been talking about?

Yesterday, I went into Team Morgan to see if I could add something, and found someone in there viewing one of the topics. I thought, well, it could be one of the mods, because they would be the only ones able to access the forum while in maintance mode. Funny though, it was a guest from California. This and much more will be turned into the authorities, pronto.

George, I have no clue who Mikey is.

Now, all the foolishness needs to STOP. I also have an email address that I don't recognize as being a member of my TM forum who attempted to have a forgotten password sent to them the same day that my forum was placed into maintance mode. That email address will also be turned in. This is NOT a game, this is about the murder of a beautiful young woman.

Oh, and one other thing, this is NOT a glitch. I have Screen Shots of everything to be turned in to the authorities. I'm also not the only one that has them, others do as well, just in case whoever these two characters think they are, are able to get rid of them, too late, already sent.


I am very concerned as are Cat and Courteney about the bad articles stating that familia DNA was used in the ECR case. In the process I feel that VSP may suffer if the word goes out that VSP does not need tips. Theories with out naming names, specific color and make cars or trucks are fine. It seems apparent that VSP needs specific tips and cannot handle 500 tips of a general nature.

In Rader’s statement of October of 2009, he said Pantera shirt. It is my belief that this has been his focus. So, during the recent comments another t-shirt was mentioned. A Pantera t-shirt at a Mettalica concert, while not an absolute rarity, is significant. Gil saw the t-shirt as well as Amy and Sarah.

For the sake of VSP retrieving tips, in my opinion, to interject a Mettalica shirt into the mix does a disservice. That is my opinion. If citizens want to post posters of the necklace and sketch that is perfectly good assistance. But I hope noone does a mock up a Mettalica shirt and post it on poles and in windows.

Anyone who has facebook should know by now that you can be hacked. Google it, there are 100’s of 1000’s.of reports. Q, I am in California with 35,000,000 people. I have never attempted to hack as sight, so are you inferring that. Now as of your correspondences with another two bloggers: You only need to ask J.me who sent me the post from your site. She knows exactly who sent it to me and why. It came in via e-mail, it was not intercepted, and a person seeking clarity sent it. The information was discussed with the FBI, as to back dooring and the effects on this case. I brought it to the attention as well as at least one other person.

This is The HOOK and this is the best place. Back to familia DNA, ECR and good reporting.

Grim Sleeper, LA TIMES:
"The break came this summer when a new, controversial form of DNA matching that searched for potential relatives of the killer led detectives to Franklin's son. Undercover officers trailed Franklin for days until they surreptitiously collected a DNA sample that, police said, tied Franklin to the killings."

Federal court struggles with California DNA collection case
State hopes DNA break in Grim Sleeper case will persuade judges to allow its program of collecting genetic profiles during felony arrests. The ACLU argues it shouldn't be done until after conviction.
July 17, 2010|By Maura Dolan, Los Angeles TimesReporting from San Francisco — — As state forensic scientists savor their success in using DNA to nab the alleged Grim Sleeper, a federal court is considering shutting down a DNA collection program the state says has helped solve several violent crimes.

During a court hearing last week, a panel of the U.S. 9th Circuit Court of Appeals showed extraordinary interest in an ACLU lawsuit challenging the state's collection of DNA from people arrested, but not necessarily convicted, in felony cases. One judge said the court was struggling.

Oh, is that where you are SJones? I thought you were out in the middle of the Atlantic in a boat? Let me ask you this, are you in this for monitary gain?

DC Dame March 12th, 2011 | 10:27am
One can only deduce that Dino's request was directed at someone other than the last person with Morgan. Does this mean two people,or more. If so, maybe not direct involvement.

Two people generally means that they neeed to keep eachother in check. Money was not the issue, if so, they would split and go off to paradise. This is homicde, if there are two or more the reward may be used by one or the other. Two keep eachother in check perhaps the signals.

Others suggest a lone wolf, that seems to be more likely. A wolf in sheeps clothing, asking the public to turn in a sheep is difficult.

After the fact, is a question. Seeing them together maybe? Planting a T-shirt, well. The Pantera T-shirt is in play because we know it was tested and VSP waited for results even though they knew it was hers. So VSP knows. was it washed, did it have blood from the chin? Was there other DNA or many people's DNA.

Or was the DNA of anoher or more found at the farm. Was it in tissue, a cig-butt, a roach or many other things. We do not know, VSP does.

It is confusing to say the least.I only know that depending on where the DNA was found lengths of time vary.

Never for money, if you have research capibilities look it up. Start in 1970, then as recently as 2008. Look at wongly conficted men on death row in Tennessee. Look at appeals based on the 14th Amendment right to equality .
Then I ask, why do you want to focus on me?
I do try to explain that Rader's team is easy to talk to. I do it because it may help for a tip to come in.I also defend the friends, and will forever. Is that why you focus on me.I also believed based on Gil that early on someone in LE was using Morgan's apperance as an excuse to take it seriously. I offered that may be in conflict with14th Amendment right to equality.

I have never been about money. I am not going to play your childish games. As others have stated there are many reasons for people to be involved. You seem to suggest that only certain ones do.

Read, you just may learn.

Enough, are you trying to derail the comments on this article, because it is afine article and people want to keep it open?

Now familia DNA, tips PLEASE!

I am focusing on you because of your certainty that the replacement shirt that Morgan was wearing would not have been a Metallica T-shirt and as many would like to know, how would you be so certain? I am aware of how many innocent men have been placed in jails around the country, and as a matter of fact, the Innocence Project has been of interest to me for a very long time.

SJones, We must stay Non personal. No bickering. We are so anxious to help, let's take the high road. The Metallica shirt has concerned many here, I can feel the anxiety. Please tell us what you can and what you know. We need to work together. As you have said, fresh eyes.
Let's focus on what we KNOW as factual and what that can mean. The insertion of the Pham case on the thread has left me wondering if that is another thought stream. How can we tear each other down when we have a family that is suffering so?? And someone loose who could do this to another girl and nother family?

SJones, I admire your body of work--what I can figure our between your clues. It appears so admirable.

The question of familia DNA is often misunderstood.

The opponents say that if you are arrested and not convicted you can vote and bear weapons. Once convicted you have neither right.

To collect DNA before a conviction is the legal point. As I understand it with the Grim Reaper this challenge would not keep the familia DNA out. I do not think familia DNA was used with the ECR, Courteney is looking into that.

On the slim chance it was, then ECR's relative had he been convicted of a felony would need to be court tested. But it is safe to say it would be admissible. However had he been arrested and not convicted, then the processing would not be allowed. Any evidence, statements or confession would not be admissible after the process was completed.

That is the legal argument. Even with familia DNA a direct DNA test needs to be performed. In the ECR case they were not testing the cig butt for familia DNA, they as with the other famous Virginia case were testing for direct DNA.

I think Vanessa Pham somewhat relates to the article. Fairfax police were listed in the news reports as to aiding the ECR team. Certainly the team has all types of assaults posted and are tracking.

The 2005 case is not connected now. But until they got the DNA it could have been. Same with Morgan. Pham was recent. I am sure that VSP was, Maryland, RI, DC, CT and more are sharing recourses. FBI knows what they are doing. One of the side advantages of this is that a team has been looking into these crimes. The things and evidence may well help in these other cases. Pham is a recent victim, her family must be. Well only imagine.

Morgan is dead, I think ECR's victims somewhat survived at least loss of physical death.
Pham is dead. Pham’s case is worthy of discussion in relation to this, I believe. If any DNA was found I am sure VSP is running it.

So many cases, but it is not in Virginia it is everywhere. Familia DNA is a great tool, but do we test people wrongly accused. There are religious concerns, moral concerns. Maybe some one has cancer and they are afraid their employers may let them go due to insurance.

Courteney prints "controversial.” She is right.

Yes, VERY controversial.
I wonder about the sighting on the UVA lawn by the newspaper delivery couple. Did you look into their claim? What is your opinion of it?



I believe these cases may relate to DNA evidence.
Notice, neither are white. VSP is not just focusing on white people.
Both should have the same public interest in my opinion. But, Morgan’s case may be a conduit and catalyst for helping in these cases.

DNA and the Harrington’s push for familia DNA is very admirable.

Newspaper Lady:

I read it. I will leave that to VSP. I do not have any other info as to what I read.Ii know a PI in Virgina seeked to talk to her.

I will say that she was a good ciizen and reported it. I wish we had more people like her.

SJones, Well stated. I agree. I think more people should get involved especially when they are so sure they saw something.
All of the cases you point out are horrific. So many families crushed with sorrow. Disgusting that someone can do that and walk free. There have to be people who "feel in their gut" that something is not right. Sense that the person they may know is capable of such evil. It will take courage and knowing that they will be safe from harm if they come forward.
On another topic related to Morgan's tragedy: It has been speculated that Morgan left the concert for a specific reason. Would it make a difference if she did? Due to who she may have wanted to see? Due to where she may have wanted to go? What do you think?

Well, Dino says someone pulled over and offered her assistance, I may be wrong. Certainly if she had a destination in mind, that would be great tip. If she told those people I need a ride to ______.
Specific reason, I do not know? I can see after her confirmed fall even that may have been reason enough. I do not know how that may have changed her thoughts. She could be spontaneous. But I would guess the fall would have been the catalyst. I think she wanted to photograph and experience Mettalica.

So, I do not know. Someone earlier asked, how much time passed. I think its official that someone told her if she left she may not get back in. Then another interacted with her and asked for the ticket. How much time passed? Enough to have a preplanned exchange, or just enough time to clear hre head and get fresh air.

Also, it seems that the Kickee interaction happened after her final attempt to get back in. In other words he was not a preplanned interaction by her.

Q Just as you have always called Dan "dad". I have always called S. Jones "Mikey". I do not know him, I just think he is Mikey. (He could be named Sue for all I really know)


Jones, what do you think? If a girl/woman has had too much to drink for her to be able to give reasonable consent to sex, and some boys who are into sports decide to take advantage of her, and pass her around, having sex with her, is that rape? If the girl becomes able to defend herself more at some point and tries to run away, and they stop her, because they are not finished with her, is that assault. If the girl then loses her belongings in an attempt to get away, and manages to escape, leaving her purse and cell behind her, runs/walks/stumbles to the bridge, where she is then pushed off by the perp who gathers her from the brush below, and kills her, then takes her to AF . Who is responsible for her murder in this possible scenario?

I see, good guess on the name.

I find it hysterically funny, maybe alarming that S. Jones in his 3/11 posts of around 9:30 PM writes of misrepresentation and truth telling and of his "meetings" with LE, etc...he's always letting whomever will listen of his "inside" connections to this case, and the investigators.

Yes, Jones, if you are not misrepresenting then tell us what you do and who you are. You are always posing as if you are some big player in this case-and others, spouting off half truths and facts. Now you say you are not "taking" anymore "tips". Ha, probably any mtgs had w/LE or FBI was to rule you out as a suspect. You attempt to make it sound like you had or have a relationship with the important paid investigators in this case. Probably you call them every other day and bug them. They've probably asked you to take a chill pill and let them do their job.

I have personal proof of several misleading statements you've made. You are overtly dramatic and will stir up anything that will make you look "important" or significant. You are a wanne be cop, investigator, lawyer and here is about the only place you can be where you are not challenged b/c here you can speak in riddles and half truths and evade other's questions when asked, by saying things like you do not take tips anymore, call Radar etc... or don't answer at all. You write like a drunken sailor when it serves you and then-as you're doing lately, write coherently, but it's all to serve yourself and your own boredom.

I am tired of seeing your chronic empty posing here and other places, finding your little groupies and so called friends who admire you so much. If anyone is interested in seeing the Great S Jones go back to Morgan's first articles here and follow him to the here and now. This will show you how very little he really knows while all the while letting others think he's the insider.

For any who are interested or know anything: J.me is THE only one, besides Mrs. Stuart, who truly know anything worth knowing. She's been on this in the most legitimate way since the beginning. Her ego is in check, her head's on straight and she is doing all of this for all the right reasons. DC Dame, I took some offense at you dressing J.me down for her French comment and thinking you needed to tell her to get back on track. She of all people does not need someone such as you to tell her what to do or not. You seem to be the relative newcomer, and if you had followed here, you would know without a doubt that J.me is probably the most honorable one here. People are free to write in whatever language they choose. While you don't have to like it, you don't also have to read it nor address it and attempt to chastise her as if she is the one here playing games. Your crush on S.Jones is embarrassingly obvious and your adoring verbiage is also not needed here. Before you elope with Jones, again, you may want to review his history here with Morgans' articles and see for yourself that this dude knows virtually nothing about getting this case solved.

Okay, I am ready for the bashing to begin as it invariably will. I just take issue with those who "think" they know who is really trying to solve this case and who is here out of a lack of identity and under the guise of trying to help solve this case. There are many who do know what is what here, just don't presume to tell me who they are because I think for myself. Chances are most of us have been here much longer than you anyway.

BRAVO BRAD!!!!!!!!!!

Are you saying that S. Jones plans to elope with himself? Is that what you are saying?

He might just as well, God only knows AIC, the man has a grandiose sense of self. So many people are afraid of him because of all those connections that he says that he has. Personally, I feel nothing but pity for him. I think that he needs someone in his life that helps him to discover who he really is, not what he's become.

Brad, I salute you.

“Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.” George Santayana was a wise man. Go back, read the past and learn from it.

AICBond: true, right, LOL, forgot about that aspect. DCDame is just not to be believed.
I think if he, or she, protest too much, they need to get a room, was getting a little hot and heavy, however, it is date night I suppose.
Q: glad to know you are onto him, and her, as well. Sometimes I just read here and wonder if everyone drank the kool-aid. Figured we needed a reality check for a change. Good to see I'm not alone.

Oh dear Brad, you are so FAR from alone. Many people thought I'd gone over the edge, but alas, now the truth will see me free. It's high damn time this foolisness stopped.

Oh dear Brad, you are so FAR from alone. Many people thought I'd gone over the edge, but alas, now the truth will set me free. It's high damn time this foolisness stopped.

And I'm not finished yet.

Duannah, right on. If we were to believe SJones a year ago, then the case would've been solved. Every few months he comes back with some new "secret" inside take on the case, w/out any acknowledgement of his past failed theories. It would be refreshing to hear him write about how wrong he was and has been in the past. But no, no admission, just continued building on the exaggerations, misrepresentations, ect. of the past. Invariably there are new groupies around that sit at his feet and gaze up at him with awe and wonder and gasp at his profoundities. Then we all must suffer while the groupies fight for him, fight for his noble "truths" and "hard" work. Just gets to be too much for me at times.
Glad to know others don't think I'm misrepresenting on this.

Amen Q1, and don't stop, I'm all ears.

Amen Q1, and don't stop, I'm all ears.

Patience my friend, whoever you are, all will be revealed in due time. They thought they had all the answers, the hackers. They took down alot of good people during this case. They took my computer down, they took money from bank accounts, they stole pictures from photobuckets, they just continued to hammer Team Morgan with bugs. I decided to put the forum into a maintance mode rather than just delete the entire thing, but, right now it's there for a reason. Perhaps after all these things are sorted out, I may delete it, it's of no use to us anymore. We can't solve this case. But we certainly did give it a good shot. I'll still be here, and so will soooo many others.

Q. sorry, but I am not sure what Team Morgan is. Is that the new site that I heard you built after FM closed? If so, who on earth is the "they" who did all these illegal things? Do you know?

Oh Brad...wow, some ego.
I thought we were here to discuss a murdered girl's tragedy and work together to try to come up with ideas of how this happened......why the venom? What problem do you have with me?

I did not "dress down" Jme. Wouldn't you think it odd that foreign languages are used in posts? Is this a game? I wanted Jme to know I could read what she was asking ---in case she did not think anyone else could---and It WAS strange.
Jme did not seem to be offended, and if she was, she should let me know. I doubt she needs your help.
AND, I have no crush on anyone except my husband of 34 years. I think it is curious and sad that SJones seems to bring out such anger in certain posters. If you feel he knows nothing, then ignore his posts.
So, am I to assume that if I have not posted since day 1 on your previous groups, or whatever you call it, I am to be silent now? This is The Hook. I do not need to be invited. I get that you are not welcoming me. I don't actually care and I have very thick skin.

Oh Brad...wow, some ego.


Oh Brad...wow, some ego.


sorry, for the repeated post...

Yes, Team Morgan was created by me just in case Find Morgan went down for the last time. I have my thoughts on who "they" are, but time will tell. I'm pretty sure that the FBI will be able to tell.

And DC Dame, if you don't know what's gone before, then you have ALOT of reading to do from the past Hook articles.

I wonder where Dakota/Dakoda is? I have not seen him post in a long time?

Q. The FBI will be able to tell. Since a crime of theft into bank accounts has been committed, they will just get a warrant and come and take computer/computers.
Since I do not know how your site worked, I am having a hard time immagining how someone hacking into your computer was able to get into other peoples computers from there, unless they were hooked up like a network?


Q and All.....I think I am up to speed. Don't worry about me...Sometimes you need to revisit things to get another perspective. I find the vitriol so unsettling. But, I am not someone who scares easily. I care, I want to help, I will not be bullied.
Not sure why all the hating.
I can ignore , compartmentalize and move on.
It is apparent to me that "this newcomer" is not welcomed. I don't need to be.
It is just strange that Brad does not want me here. Guess there is a reason.

There is an echo in here. The FBI must be here already!

Q, I sincerely hope that you get some help from LE in regard to what was done to your computer. That is highly suspicious and may have something to do with this case...Is that your feeling?

I hope the FBI is here.

DC Dame, yes, I do too.

All I can say is, the actions of some people that have been interested in Morgan's case, have been abominable. They have created chaos, they have created more pain and suffering for Morgan's family and it's detestable.

Q, was S. Jones a mod on Find Morgan early on? And was he a member of your new site "Team Morgan" Do you think the "they" were members of your site? (how many members did you have?) (if you would rather not say, then OK.

Q, would it be fair to expand and let the rest of us know what you are hinting at?? The actions of whom? What chaos? If it is well known to everyone else here except me, then I guess I am not in the fraternity. But, creating more pain and suffering for the Harringtons is a pretty brutal concept to imagine....

I would rather not answer any of those questions.

Do you think these people had something to do with Morgan's murder?

DC, it is not known to me what Q is talking about either.

No I do not, but I do think they are into the case for monitary gain and that sickens me.

SJones, I agree.
Q, I will respect that you do not want to expand on your assertion above. I find it quite strong and serious, and hope that you are not referring to people here. I hope you get some satisfaction with the investigation of what was compromised on your computer.
This is a very sad topic. There is alot of emotion. I see that Jme, you and others are very close to the situation and the family. Your efforts must be exhausting emotionally. I applaud your work. I hope Brad will not accuse me of having a crush on you also. LOL

Q, you feel the people who hacked your computer are trying to gain facts so they can collect the reward? is that what you are saying?

Q, OK, I guess I am beginning to get what you are talking about. Are you thinking the "they" were trying to get info you knew about but they did not, to use to solve the case and get some kind of reward money?
If so, personally, I do not think it would be possible to get reward money from working from a computer. How could one prove whatever was their ideas? Also, I do not know of anyone ever who actually got reward money. (you would need to ID the perps, witness against them, and also there would have to be a successful prosecution. An undercover agent or PI might be able to do this with boots on the ground, but by the time he did all the leg work, he would have spent more than the reward money by far. (I do think it would be fair to pay such a person for his work and time) Otherwise I do not see how anyone could be comfortable accepting "blood money"

Yes, actually DC Dame, I think that much of the hacking has been by those who feel that other forums, other emails will give them some knowledge of this crime. Why else hack into someone's email? Get into their bank accounts? It's BLOOD MONEY. Sickening.

Q, I cannot think of anything more boring than reading someone else's email. I can hardly get through some of my own!

Q, totally, unbelievable that anyone would accept one cent of the reward money.
It is a crime to hack into email accounts, bank accounts. It takes a long time, but they will ID them.
When someone like a Brad posts above directed at me, I have to think that there are some who want to silence certain discussions, certain people. And, I think it is strange and makes me even more curious about this case and why these individuals pop up.

It's all about gathering info AIC, just gathering information. That and sending emails from accounts with viruses attached, to make someone look badly. All they do is cause chaos, it's what it's about.

did everyone miss Q1's slip up? Why teh second set of posts as Curious George?

Q, sounds like that is a full time job for them. It is all so silly.

Oh please Jenn, funny you just HAD to come in and point a finger at me, well, there are three more pointing back at ya.

Jenn.....no clue what you are getting at.

Is Jenn Ross???/LOL?

Heaven only knows lol. The saving grace is Courtney, who can see who is who.

Ross....? Now there's a blast from the past. Wonder where Ross is these days?

Jme....Please accept my personal apologies if I offened you with my remark about your French post. Brad seems to think I offended you. That was not my intention at all.

Questioner1 March 11th, 2011 | 11:41pm

Curious George March 11th, 2011 | 11:48pm


Questioner1 March 12th, 2011 | 12:14am

Curious George March 12th, 2011 | 12:14am

Jme , I just remember Ross always chasing Q! LOL

Jenn, give it up honey, it's not workin.

Jugendmedienevent Cómo en el Infierno es usted a la noche?

DC...no worries. You are hereby inducted into the crazy world of Findmorgan Sleuths!
AIC...LOL, Chasing Q... Those were the days! (then again maybe NOT!!! ) LOL

This ain't my first rodeo lol.

AIC....something about how I am tonight? Well, I have been cleaning out closets all day and I think I have inhaled enough dust for a hundred dust bunnies.....

Q...Its my first rodeo and my last...I hope.

Jme , yes, but you left out the inferno part.

Oh dear GOD, AIC is posting as J.me look March 12th 2011 9:53pm

About a month ago I cleaned out a whole room and took it to the Salvation Army. I felt kinda bad foisting it all on them, but they seemed glad to get it.

I am not.....

Interesting, now who's posting as me, hacking abounds, sigh.

Q, I am sorry. Please forgive me for being silly. I will never do it again.

So, what you are saying is, anyone can use anyone's names here and post as them? Interesting indeed.

We are degrading, and de valuing this thread, once again with the side bar revenge discussion. This type of discussion is exactly why the comments have been closed on previous Morgan threads. Please, People, if you put up a site, be prepared for hacking! End of sentence. Deal with it. Go to your DR. and get it fixed....The hook is not a help desk informational announcement service for your internet troubles, or to rely problems that you mayhave had in regards to your site. Also, the hook is not a place to diss other commenters. " This thread is about MORGAN HARRINGTON. Isn't it?
I agree with S Jones and DC dame, let's keep the discussion going on Morgan, tips to VSP etc....
Let's take the HIGH ROAD if youcan, and keep the comments to the subject matter, and not about yourselves and your opinions of posters or your website.
We need all of your energy into finding Morgan's killer. Not the french version of who hacked into who's e-mail.

I wasn't talknig about someone posting as someone else, I was asking why someone posted as two different people. Kind of curious I thought. Very obvious mistake. It's the blog software the same as teh multiple posts earlier today at 7:32 and 7:33pm as well as others. That time it caught someone trying to mislead for some reason.

Ruby, You're a little late. We all seem to be getting along now! I think we're on the HIGH ROAD.....a little friendly bantering gets us all back on the same page.


Well gang, I think I will hit the road. Nite.

Oh no....but I thought you were bantering too....always coming up with a song...oh well. The dust bunny queen needs a shower and beddie bye.....now that we have no clue who anyone is...

Yep, I'm out as well, be safe everyone.

No, no no, not at all late to the party J.me. Been here all along. Glad to hear all is well amongst the family so you say. Can we keep it that way?

Let's talk about Morgan. Shall we? God bless her. She was last seen on October 17th, 2009, JPJ Arena, C-ville. Let's go people. What do you know? What did you see? Not who highjacked your e-mail, Do not want to know who speaks french, but what do you know about that night?? Don't want theories. Someone knows. VSP is all ears.

How sad is this. Grown, mature people do not act this way. Have we lost track of reality here?
Let's ask ourselves..what does any of your comments have to do with this article and how does any of this this game playing advance Morgans case? It doesn't. Period. It is obvious that there are personal issues being aired here that are on off topic, and nothing related to Morgan. .


Sometimes it is just valid to simply state what is obvious to some who've followed this case from the start. S Jones misrepresents imo. Period. Those who've not read all the way from the start here have consistently been swept off their feet by the Grate Counsel: S Jones. While it may be off topic, it is relevant as to how some just get away over and over again, attempting to sidetrack details here with their own grandiosity and games. In a way it is very much about Morgan.

Dame, as to your comment to J.me. I don't know whether or not you offended her-didn't sound like it to me. But I said it offended me, not her. I don't think you read my post at all in any non defensive way. Read it again if you will. I think you are encouraging a certain poser-uhm excuse me, poster, who remains here and tries to sound self important and smart and in the know. He isn't, believe me. I have the docs on some of these antics. Want to get them to Q1 at some point.
Just because I am calling out the Emperor has no Clothes doesn't mean I don't want this thread to stay on topic. I do, very much so. I have followed this case and while I do think newcomers here ask alot of questions-which is their right, I also think out of respect, many many of these questions can be had by reading backward or forward from the beginning. No one HAS to do this or anything.

As to J.me posting in French: so what if you can read it Dame? All of us who read French could as well and if not, then one goes to translate from French to English and have the answer in less than a minute. Why point it out to her as if she didn't know what she was doing. None of anyone's business anyway. Obviously she didn't mean it to be private because it was so very obvious.

Just seems like some people have shown up here and want to call the shots and while they can try it doesn't mean others will. Get the point? Suddenly we have these task masters that have shown up here. Well it is Courtenay that runs the show. Thank God.

S. Jones, am noticing you still won't tell others here what you do that allows you to make such sweepingly "smart" statements about the insides of this case. If you declare to know so much then also respectfully inform us, otherwise you are just another mindless poster.

One thing I was thinking about last night. Perhaps there is a mother out there who suspects her son of being capable of this kind of crime. Perhaps he has two personalities, the one a mother could love...and the other a murderous rapist. Could possibly, this mother go and submit her dna for authorities to match Sketch's dna against? (provided the dna collected is mitochondrial). Would this be legal?
I'm off to church and if all here can get their personas straight by the time I get home, maybe we will have a discussion going. Not trying to be a task master...just hoping.


Deleted by moderator.

He won't give us an explanation Brad, he can't. It's just one of those things that he tosses out where you think that he has inside info that he doesn't have. On the last Hook article, I attempted to stay on track, even asked some questions that anyone really being here and interested in the case, could have discussed, but nothing came of it. I then put in links to some info that was important and nothing came of that either. SJones just keeps on doing his own thing, so, I highly doubt that anything of any importance will be discussed here.

J.me: I think so, I do think she, the mother could submit her sample and this would be legal. Seems like it would be legal. I would think this could be a valid scenario really. Someone has to be connected to this monster and also has to see a level of behavior that could be contrasted to his baseline. Would hope so anyway. Unless this dude is a total recluse and has cut himself off from others.

Clearly someone like this is hugely disturbed and has to be symptomatic of something. If only his family or coworkers are tuned in to him to the degrees that would indicate he's off somehow. Mother, sibling, girlfriend or wife even, someone knows something. There may be a level of ignorance great enough to discount what he or she is witnessing though. Or fear.

About pulling this group together. No you don't sound like a task master. However I'd like to say that sometimes honest discourse can't or doesn't occur when a few are behaving as if their past history here didn't exist. Sorry, I just think it's a bit much to be lectured to by the likes of S. Jones given his behavior here before and the controversy he's generated imo. Lots and lots of confusion have been started by him before, and recently as well, and while for now he's laying off whatever or Whatever, and is writing words strung into a few cohesive sentences and forming a paragraph or two that holds one thoughts, its too much to be lectured to by him. Suddenly he's the standard bearer for this case? I cannot collude or go along with this and think we're serving a form of the truth here under that guise. He's got a few harpies hanging onto his every word (this will happen as it has before in the past as well, until they read far back enough), and this just builds precisely what he loves-attention, and feeds his ego, and is not in service of Morgan. I feel saying the emperor's not wearing any clothes is also valid and truthful. JMO of course, but several others chimed in and agreed. Just think it's good to keep things in perspective. Overall though I hear you loud and clear and do have lots of respect for you and your disciplined work you've done with this case. The Harringtons are lucky to have you and Courteney in service of their daughter and this vicious crime.

Q1, I know you did in that last thread. Saw the links and your efforts. You are right too, he's incapable of following through on the confusion he generates via his "inside" info. I can only wonder what Radar must have to deal with when S Jones calls him.

Deleted by moderator.

OMG, I thought you meant purchase the LA Times business!!!
Catch some fish for your supper.

Brad, please lay off S. Jones. I am tired of hearing it now. I think most of us know Jones by now.

I have tried twice now to get my head around even thinking about a mother giving her DNA to convict her son. I just cannot imagine it. If any mother could do that, she would have to be a hero. I do believe it would be legal, however.

AICBond: Point taken, I hope so. I too, have a hard time with the mother submitting her DNA to possibly convict her son, but how could she live with herself otherwise knowing what she'd know?

Thank you Brad.
I guess that is why so many mothers live in denial, and when their children are caught they say he was always a good boy.

Isn't there a bank nearby? Like a SunTrust branch that Morgan may have used or wanted to? Has anyone checked the angles of the bank camera to see if they were able to see the bridge? I guess the VSP has obveously checked all this but has there been any news on business cameras all around JPJs.

AICBond: that is the Exact disconnect. People are always saying about pedophiles, murderers, ect. that they couldn't have done it, nicest person in the world, kindest, most thoughtful, all that. The Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde persona. I guess everyone could be thought of to have different aspects to them, but not to have gigantic splits in personality like this. So parents, relatives need to be aware of signs of these splits. Like looking for red flags, how others perceive their loved one and be alert.

I had a girlfriend who was abused by her father. Wouldn't have suspected him in a million years and yet after she told me this, I began to notice little things in him that later over time began to be signs of bigger things. He was really invested in having people think only the best of him, and that he never made mistakes, just real uptight about being seen as a great guy. He didn't pretend all this to his daughter, she knew the real deal and he knew she knew this. He counted on the fact she was scared and too timid to tell on him.

There is always one person at least who knows the hidden side of this type of a person. This is who needs to be focused on to tell what they know. I guess the police are attempting to coax these types or friends of the perpetrator out of hiding. It will be through tips I guess that he will be caught I hope, and not by another victim.

If the perps are reading here, and they could be, they should consider turning themselves in to save their mothers the mental anguish of having to turn them in. It just might be the one good thing the person could do for all concerned. They probably want to be caught, just like the ECR who asked "what took you so long"?

Hey AceBond: I bet the murderer will jump right on it.

Yes, you are right. Good suggestion on your part.

Okay, listen up, moms of those who think their sons killed Morgan---get yer son's hairbrush, toothbrush, used glass, discarded cigarette--i mean ANYTHING with dna. You don't have to go to some uber complex scenario---just get his dna. It's EVERYWHERE.

Deleted by moderator.

You guys have been busy. Yes, of course, the mom could grab the hairbrush or whatever. But if a mom or sibling has moved or no longer has those things at their disposal, mitochondrial dna is passed down from mother to her children ...as opposed to the Y-Dna they use for paternal-father to son, if I understand it correctly.... even a sibling could do it
(Brad,thank you for your nice words)

J.me, your welcome and I meant it, mean it. I've watched you all along and not only are you consistent and dedicated but you've also shown a level of integrity throughout. Time usually tells all. So you've been a role model for me and my sister who also posts here, can't tell ya who, she's kill me.
Anyway I'm confused about the mother-son dna connection as opposed to father one. Like would the mom of a murderer's, would her DNA reveal the connection whereas a dad's would not? I need to read up on this myself. How bout this? Would the father son DNA have any of the same markers as mother son DNA or would it be entirely different? I guess there are 2 separate conversations are going on here. Familial DNA and then just a mother taking her son's hair, cig, cup ect. to the cops for testing. This would be the clearest and easiest to prosecute I 'd think anyway.

Does Charlottesville have a food pantry? What about Fairfax? I'm sure they do. If so, why not put a flier of the sketch, necklace, camera, etc. in with the box of food--you never know who this could reach...Please consider those of you who flier the Charlottesville (and surrounding) area(s).

Great idea JAB, and think its much better than putting Sketch up at post offices, ect. The best part about your suggestion is that it goes into folks homes and it spreads from there. People who have an inkling or fear that someone they know could be Sketch, could discuss it with others and exchange notes, pass the flier around groups that may give him up ect.. I think it would generate more talk and speculation. This is a really good idea. How to get it going?

JAB, That is a good idea. Brad, I guess the reason I bring up the mother familial dna is becuase to date, most people have only mentioned the father and brother relationships. This makes sense if a father or brother have commited crimes where their dna was filed ...or a situation where a father or brother suspect their relative of a crime. As I understand it, Y-Dna is passed from father to son, Mitochondrial dna is passed from mother to her children. Different kinds of dna can be collected at crime scenes. MTdna tends to survive better/longer because of there being many copies of mtDNA in each cell so is used more often in cases like this.
I just wanted to offer other options of how familial dna could be connected if possible. This maybe could even expand to a grandparent or cousin who suspects a relative, depending on the type of dna collected. For instance, my sons should have the same y-dna as their male cousins who were born to my husband's brother since they have the same paternal grandfather (unless some hanky panky occured with along the way) but Mtdna is passed to each of a mother's children, so a mother, grandmother or sister could submit dna if they suspect son/grandson/brother. (A half-sister born from different mothers could not). Whew!

Geeze J.me, that was a mouthfull lol. Excellent info though, thanks.

To all: There are some good, thoughtful comments here, and I appreciate those, but there are a few who are derailing the conversation. I simply don't have the time to spend watching this thread to make sure it stays on course, so I'm turning comments off. I hope on my next Morgan article, everyone will keep the rules in mind so that I can focus on doing my job. --Courteney Stuart