Italy’s election

The Ohio of Italy

Silvio Berlusconi’s electoral fate will be decided in his native Lombardy

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Readers' comments



not much to be added. Those who are keen on voting for something new, should not consider Berlusconi (in power for 13 of the last 18 years) without changing much despite a strong majority. Likewise, Monti has been in power in 2011, Italians know what his agenda is and therefore it is not a 'full blind' choice. Bersani was the only Minister who proposed a serious set of reforms during Prodi's government, but he was strongly opposed... Ingroia and Grillo do not have reasonable chance to spend more than one day there...

Terence Hale

Italy’s election. The Ohio of Italy. The United Colors of Berlustom. Many political commentators have welcomed the return of Signore Berlusconi on the political stage, they have something to write about.

Mike Casella

After all, Mr. B. is still revealing himself as a terrific fighter, pushed by the wish to protect his business from Germany-centric policies of a center or center-left government. He should be respected for that.
The occurred turnover inside his party could become an advantage for him: those MPs inside his party who weren't so loyal can now be substituted by new young people with new ideas and inspiration.
His capacity to communicate is still the best that has been shown so far among the candidates.
It's sad to notice that smart and capable people in Italy are not willing to suffer the pain of entering into the political arena with good chances to win but until things go on like that, believe it or not, Mr. B. is still the best candidate the center- right can have. In spite of his age.

longman333 in reply to Mike Casella

Although we know that even Monti has skeletons in his cupboards and in his backyard, since he was advisor of the merchant bank Goldman Sacks which with the Lehman Brothers contributed to trigger off the financial world crisis we are in and, considering that Monti is a straw man both of the banks and of the rating agencies (Moody’s), Italy will perhaps be safe and perhaps will not finish like Greece…...perhaps. The other two competitors (Bersani and Berlusconi) would bring Italy directly to the default and to the disaster…therefore Italians probably, holding their nose I think, are going to vote for Monti, even if in his “assemblage” there are all sorts of buccaneers and raiders as Casini and Fini and many others of the same kind.

Mike Casella in reply to longman333

Italy has always been split politically. This is the reason of the many Govt. in its history and also the main reason why Mr. B.'s Govt. couldn't accomplish many of its objectives.
You could even have the best PM in the world leading this country but divisions inside the Govt. will never permit to have an effective political action. At that point it doesn't matter if Mr. B. or Mr. Monti is the leader. Small interests of very few will prevail as a consequence of the forming coalition made also by small parties.
At the end this is what really makes the difference between a successful Govt. and a failing one:
the capability of each party belonging to the majority to put ahead the Nation's interest before their own. In a wider sense this principle should be applied also to the conflict between majority and opposition inside any Parliament. See what the US are now facing for the Fiscal Cliff issue.

Marins in reply to Mike Casella

What are you exactly talking about?
Berlusconi is not a fighter, he's never been one.
You're right when you say he protects his "business" along with his interests, friends, prostitutes and freedom (to still walk), just to name some. He's really good at doing that, that's pretty much all he's been doing in the last 25 years or so.

His exhumation as prime minister again would be nothing less than an unprecedented catastrophe for Italy as a whole.

According to him sovereign debt crisis is a "trick" and Germans want to rip us off. He will solve our problems with a new almost magical policy: slashing the new taxes introduced by Monti. Just as if Italians don't remeber who's been sitting in Rome in 11 out of the last 18 years.

Pedro Macedo

"Non promettere mari e monti"

An italian idiomatic expression: Do not make promises you cannot keep. The hidden irony is that Berlusconi (the problem) is presenting himself as the panacea for all Italy´s difficulties.
If we think beyond that, as far as Europe (The Europe Union) is concern, Italy is, of course, essential (like any other country in the European Union). The "vexata quaestio" is still ahead of us: More Europe or Less Europe? (Perhaps we should take a clue from "Roger Fisher", athor of the method of principled negotation negotiation on merits), developed at the Harvard Negotation Project, and create our own best alternative to a negotation agreement (batna). What is the best alternative for Europe? Letting aside "blaming issues", no keeping score of who did what to whom. What is the best way? I believe the end of the European Union, the end of the Euro is not a solution. I still think, despite the crisis, that the European Union is the best politial idea (concept) that ever existed. Don´t throw out the baby with the bath water (" Das Kind mit dem Bade ausschütten.")
Lession from the euro crisis? Take it or leave it. "Learning never exausts the mind" Leonardo da Vinci

Landscaper in reply to Pedro Macedo

A good argument, I mainly agree with. Yes, it's time, first of all, for deciding what we actually wish. Moreover, it's time to quit speaking about Europe...just when somebody feels comfortable doing so, then turning on...national pride (foolish chauvinism together with hidden economic interest), when Europe doesn't seem fit as much. People such as Berlusconi and Umberto-the-Boozer shall thus clear the way, the sooner the better. Indeed, they are not the right politicians, in order endorse a responsible political aim, forever, on anything.
It's coming now to my mind...are they politicians...?

Alexander Von Thorn

This is a very interesting analysis but the presence of the 5 Stars Movement (aka 'grillini') could really make things far more complicated and interesting...

zorzon in reply to Alexander Von Thorn

While M5Star qualified for regional elections, I think as yet they do not qualify for national elections. If they cannot, then Grillo can direct his followers to vote for a certain party in which hae has some behind the scene arrangement.

carl byron rodgers

Lets wait and see.

longman333 in reply to carl byron rodgers

You have to have a stomach for bulshit to endure Monti - to say nothing of the zombie-like expression he mistakes for ruling. This zombie dares to say he has saved Italy. During his government Italian public debt exceeded 2.000 Bill. euro, unemployment doubled and growth went below zero. He would have made a very good undertaker. Now this fellow, who doesn't know any more about politics than a pig knows about Sunday, dares to "go up", to "ascend" in politics. Monti has shown that he is not possessed of the backbone of an angleworm.

luigi bianchi

@BRIGHT TONY.You are shooting to the Moon.I do not belong to any party,and i am frankly perplexed on how to vote in the incoming election.I sure shall not vote for the party of the banks and of the totalitarisms the gangsters of the international finance want,say for the monster called PD and for his greed of power.I sure shall not vote for the party of Germany and Vatican,of the traitors Casini and Fini.I shall not vote for Berlusconi:his ultraliberal approach to the social issues is not acceptable,for me,while i believe that the CGIL trade union,even if too politicized and half communist if not entirely,is clearly and frankly expressing without any fear the truth about Monti.I followed word by word the press conference of Monti and i was astonished by the absolute calm he showed by telling intolerable lies.Who grants me that this danger will vanish from the horizon?Probably i shall vote for the Social Right,which thing means that i do not have any link with the PDL.And you,how do you vote?Considered that our Country is the only one deploying a Party of the magistrates,that is the only one deploying a declared Communist party,that we have the monster called PD,you must have some doubt,too.

Landscaper in reply to luigi bianchi

Usual arguments of you, just propaganda. Your propaganda is aimed to bringing chaos, further social unrest and insecurity. You are just fomenting all of that, together with Berlusconi's followers and Umberto-the-Boozer's. When misery and mayhem will be at worst, social living will be just between deep poverty and starvation, you will succeed to impose your power. No longer political rule people chose, that will be something similar to or worse than a coup, in which everybody claiming justice, fair wage and social status will be treated as rascals, just on the false assumption they being "Communists", so on.
I know which kind of people you belong to; in addition you don't have enough courage to say you side with those wicked parties and their already mentioned ...leaders. It's berlusconiani's usual attitude denying they do not support Berlusconi as much. They however do, everything is clear on their arguments, which are word by word Berlusconi's lunatic statements. You have no idea of your own, nor any democratic culture. Meddling yourselves into B's personality this much is real self-alienation.

Far away those dangerous fellows. I am not saying what I am going to vote, it's my own free choice, although as such it's vanishing. Your bald little man and his servants in a previous parliament's majority enabled the current electoral law which is vilifying of democracy.

Free political proposal, speech, writing, mainly real proposals: all of that has nothing to do with Berlusconi and Umberto-the Boozer. Neither political honesty and well aiming politics.
Justice is needed by Italians, those dullards shall thus end their life in jail.

Landscaper in reply to luigi bianchi

All I said in my previous post, is clearly shown by the way you finger Germany and the Vatican as the enemy.
Real inability to acknowledge your party's faults, Berlusconi and the Boozer never likely to admit their failures as well as their cunning criminal aim. Germany just made clear how Italy fell down in any way in its worldwide credibility unless real government members may take the reins in the matter. Berlusconi was the usual shame, ridiculous jerk, despite being too sly on his own business.
He and his party have therefore been shamed; what is wrong? What should anybody wonder about? Germans wish to be helpful to us and anybody else, they however require guarantee. They are going to set, together with other EU partners, a common rule of avoiding future trouble similar to Italy's and Greece's as well as mutual help. Nothing wrong indeed, for Berlusconi that is of course a hideous issue. He is just being ridiculed by the whole world, that he actually deserves.
The Vatican: in the past kings looked for investiture by the Church and Berlusconi seemed to be doing almost the same. He claimed he wished to protect moral values, he praised Christian morality, he pretended being close to priests and worshippers....
His wickedness and hypocrisy have recently - not once only - been put into evidence by the Pope, too. Now you hate also the Roman Catholic Church.

PdL and Lega, the jesters, the tricksters.

zorzon in reply to Landscaper

As I stated to you many many times before, until the regions become federated like every other DECENT western society, is the time Italy will move forward from its feudal political mentality it has now. we are heading for a caste system. The way its heading, we will be working for a salary of a bowl of soup as payment.

You need to stop propping up these old political parties regardless of which one you choose, and I now you have changed parties choices many times......there is no issue in this for me

Landscaper in reply to zorzon

I also believed that for a long time, long time ago. Now I am really doubtful upon it. It's no use trying to change institution, when most people's mind remains the same. In the meantime, we can find a lot of politicians, always ready to promise and to preach this as necessary, except that, when it will be done, they will find another way to draw their own advantage out.
People, as ordinary citizens, shall start thinking that the state is "res publica" ('everybody's thing'), behaving with an own sense of responsibility. They shall learn basic knowledge about the Constitution, just to know how the state works in its political establishment and thus never vote being unaware on what they are doing. When most Italians will have a civic culture of themselves as citizens, a different kind of candidates and politicians will arise. Most will thus turn to the better, we will be a true and respectable country, worldwide.

Berlusconi, Umberto-the Boozer, others, on the right and left side, have been a handbook example of what democracy and civil society must not be like.


The matter is actually prosecution on presumed wrongdoing by a PM and his loyal fans. What is wrong, with that? That shall indeed be inquired, in order to verify whether it is true or false. A lot of documents somehow making likely his and theirs involvement into illicit affairs, bribe - in any way, bunga bunga included - relation with underage prostitution, even the real mentioning of a "relevant relation" of the girl, then interfering, just as a PM, on a police operation - the girl being kept at the police office; all of that are hard convictions. Berlusconi innocent of guilty? Whoever somebody may be, that must always be ascertained; that's most important, if the convicted is a top politician.
"That's maneuvering by opposers.." Why? Who ever said that? Which argument does anyone rely on, just to say that?

If ever, that shall be demonstrated: on this very purpose, I wish to defy anybody just to do that.
Despising the judicials soon at first, on this undefined and undemonstrated pretext; even if that was true (please, fellows, demostration of you, upon that, too long awaited) it's never a good reason either to despise courts or to dribble the matter and trials.
Such people dare even make law bills on their own self-defence; is it a wicked attitude? Not really, say it's cowardice as well as political abuse, on the society, for the own private purpose.
Such people, if they will be verified having acted this way, shall be sentenced to a long jail period. Shouldn't that happen? Why?
Every crook and every abuser on political institutions and society is a mobster who shall be put on trial, thus sentenced to the right punishment.

A few questions: what has justice-asking to do, with Communists?
Who are those Communists? Where are they?
In the very case Berlusconi accusers were Communists, would that mean he is innocent even if he clearly acted wrong? Is he in any case above law and unpunishable? Cannot he be trialled and sentenced just because he deems himself being a great man?

Let's see what it will turn like, on this great crook.

longman333 in reply to Landscaper

There are some morons who think that Communism is dead and therefore there is no danger at all and we can give a damn what Communists do. That's a fatal error. It may be true that the beast is dead, but the poison is still here. You are the proof.The left in Italy is composed by old Commies as Bersani, Vendola, D'Alema, Finocchiaro, Veltroni, Napolitano,Rizzo, Bertinotti & Co. all people who have declared their deep love to Communism. They have never renounced this crazy ideology.They are the star-exponents of the left in Italy and you asks where the Communists are. Wake up.

Landscaper in reply to longman333

Usual meaningless arguments of you and your party fellows, just to defuse anyone's attention to real problems. In the meantime the economy is in shambles, more and more people are turning jobless. Monti's policy has been painful to the most, it's still a necessary start, however to remedy what has been ruined throughout almost two decades. Other people live the way they can, with their wages, say with their tips. No job opportunity for the younger, the newly graduated, others looking for - any -occupation. If somebody finds a job now, that will be neither a lasting nor decently paid one. Can they trust on their future? Pensioners; besides people retiring later and later, yet nobody is sure they will be paid their after-employment state pension, they have contributed to and deserve.
Schools and universities; saying these are educating institutions is ... coarse humour gag.

Everything was already up to founder. Berlusconi came up, to change political course:

he let everything founder sooner and deeper.

In spite of all this mayhem, he shall be chosen as our saviour...otherwise we are Communists!

PS This usual Communists' fear waving is not a brand original idea of you. Such tricky demagogic pretext had already been used by conservatives in Greece, in the 1950's and 1960's. Its outcome had eventually been the king's ousting and power grabbing by the Colonels.

longman333 in reply to Landscaper

As ever you do not answer the crucial point. Is it true or not that these persons: Bersani, Vendola, D'Alema, Finocchiaro, Veltroni are communist? Have they renounced their communist ideology? Are they the star-exponents of the left in Italy who are about to win the next elections, or not? Is it true or not that where communists have ruled in the world they have made only disasters and crimes? Is it true or not that the people who have proved Communism's rule, would loathe their comeback as the black death? If that is true than it is also easy for Berlusconi to win the next elections, providing the people do not have stockpiled their brains.

longman333 in reply to Landscaper

Remember that Berlusconi at his worst is always much better than Bersani or Monti at their best. Bersani is a former communist and what communists can perform is known all over the world: only disasters and crimes against humanity. Monti as an economist has proved to be a failure, as Prof.Alberto Alesina from Harvard University has also said. Italy under Monti's rule has suffered of taxes' growth, unemployment and increase of public debt (more than 2.000 Bill.euro). Monti is only a former school-teacher completely unknown till last year when Napolitano picked him up. He In his recent past he was an advisor of the merchant bank Goldman Sach and in this position he cheated a great number of people selling them junk funds.Monti: A big failure apart from his sober undertaker pose. The naked king.

longman333 in reply to Landscaper

Monti is not only a failure, he is also a great show-off, a poser, a peacock. After his government Italy has gone from bad to worse:no growth, taxes, unemployment, public debt beyond 2.000 Bill. euros, he has nerve to say that he has saved Italy and wants to rule Italy further. Somebody has pointed out that his government was a half disaster and asked him why he doesn't give up ruling. He answered that he doesn't like doing things by half-measures. Apparently he wants to make a full disaster. He can. As happy as can be.

Landscaper in reply to longman333

Just your anger and your wish to mean that Berlusconi, in any way, ought to keep his power, nothing else. No reason to stand against him: he shall be the undisputable Despot (Greek for Boss). No reason to contradict him; he is always right, especially when he is not. A lot of faults you finger on his adversaries are indeed his

Whatever side of the room people you mention wish to sit at, never matters; that indeed never defuses him as being suspected as well as his responsibility toward society, as a politician, a citizen and an entrepreneur. All of you, he and his loyal servants, refrain, please, from useless pretext as well as unfounded. Are judges meddling with his political counterpart? That shall be demonstrated, the burden of proof, on this purpose, is upon him.

Judicial cases are not a political matter, it's a normal crime inquiry. Did anybody ever tell you that criminals shall be sentenced and jailed? He shall, if found guilty.
Claiming on others' never demonstrated bad aims, complaining on others as bad fellows joining against him....that is childish, it's foolish, it is also typical of wicked, haughty and badly bred wealthy families' youth.

Mind mainly his responsibility, as well as yours.
When all of you - he and all those people who rely on him, mind with him and thus belong to him - will be acquitted as "not guilty" (not for the statute of limitations or a law he made enable on his own purpose, when sentence will be "not guilty"),
then I also will believe that too much has been stressed on his political presence and anything else.

Never before. Sounds odd?

longman333 in reply to Landscaper

I don't care Berlusconi specially but what I think is that you are hooked in criticizing Berlusconi, disregarding everything and in a way that only deranged people can do. There is something wrong with you. Go to a 'shrink' and have your head checked. You are probably suffering from schizophrenia.

Landscaper in reply to longman333

Yes indeed, you have no longer enough courage to defend your political party. Your Tyrant (Greek, again, for Boss) is being besieged, not indeed by his opposers nor by judges; no more he is than he has ever been. His siege is his nationwide and worldwide fame as a political mobster and a trickster. In the EU politics he is an Italy he actually misrepresented, say an absent Italian partner other countries wish and may otherwise deal with.
In all this political picture, all of you now don't dare even saying they are going to back him; you all try to point out others' demerits and faults, if ever, in the very case someone may believe usual tales (Berlusconi's and yours).

I wish to take into consideration your advice; I may go to a doctor. Everybody else should do the same. In this usual mayhem nobody can actually boast being mind-healthy. Are you sure you are?

longman333 in reply to Landscaper

Socialism, let alone its by-products as Communism, National-socialism and Fascism, is the most crazy, insane ideology which has ever infested the planet Earth for the last 30.000 years. This ideology, as scientific studies have proved, can only take root on lower minds, fools, morons and simpletons.

luigi bianchi

@BRIGHT TONY.Here the true colors of the communists dreaming of ruling Italy:the opposition jailed with excuses and inventions of leninist militants intruded in the Magistarture,while we "keep our dignity" by obeying to the emissaries of the new international financial fascism:MONTI,BERSANI BOSS OF THE PARTY DEPLOYING ALL THE ITALIAN BANKERS AND READY TO ROB 4 BILLIONS TO FINANCE THE BELOVED MONTEPASCHI,FINI & CASINI remote controlled by Germany and Vatican,and now an inquiry in Lomardy aimed to assure an easy majority also in the critical Senato to the party of the Mandatory Happiness.

Landscaper in reply to luigi bianchi

Far from minding that honesty in politics is everybody's duty, if that comes to your party, that is just any intrusion by the opposition, together with judges' accomplishment.
Besides the need to demonstrate such an assumption, all of you seem to ignore what democracy is, the real fact that everybody is equal to the it not like that? Indeed, it's because several people, like Belusconi, always aim to bring inequality, the deeper and the more.
As all of you party fellows do, you just repeat the silly phrases of him. If I am up to be considered a Communist, doesn't matter.
What is actualluy needed, the enemies of any social, democratic, civil culture shall be prosecuted; if guilty, they shall be jailed, why not?

Is it just Communists' the real opinion that a thief ought to be jailed?
Do you think Berlusconi, Umberto-the Boozer an others are less guilty just because you say we are Communists?
Do you think it's a right of them - and their accomplices - to steal and do their dirty business, undisputably and in despise of any rule, of law?

I would be a Leninist just because I say that political malpractice should harshly be punished....

Landscaper in reply to luigi bianchi

Nobody ever said that those people you refer to ought not to be inquired, if any wrongdoing went back to them.

Berlusconi is a man who already was being prosecuted; is all of that political machinery? That wouldn't excuse or acquit him.
He shall go to the trials, without any worry, say the own reason, by the "prestigious" lawyers he chose. If, after being acquitted, any charge upon him found meaningless, he can thus wind to everybody and report that the judiciary is politically motivated; he shall still give his own proof upon.

Therefore no reason is because we think he is being persecuted by the political opposers. He is just screaming his insults, as a coward, a politically-meddled thug (who were the political intruders?), a mob-businessman.


Maroni is only in a care-taker role as leader of the LN. He has stated this already.
His political ambitions rest solely on becoming president of Lombardia. If he can do this it will secure most of northern italy under LN ( piedmont and veneto are already LN ). If he cannot, he will be out of politics.
The new future leader of the LN will, IMO be Tosi ( mayor of Verona), Cota and Zaia seems happy in running the piedmont and veneto respectively.

Tosi has stated already that LN should in no circumstances align with SB again, even if SB was to 'give" lombardia to LN.

The dark horse is the anti-EU party led by Grillo


Realising that he will never be MP in Italy again, Berlusconi has decided to settle for being a nuisance.

Landscaper in reply to longman333

Thus you think he is right....those bad fellows didn't let this wicked, old man, turned back to childhood, play his own way. The bud shall be satisfied, who is ever trying to deny that?

Yes, as an elderly man, he had to be allowed enjoying himself with an underage girl. Trying to meddle in such a "private matter of his own", how can somebody dare question it? A man as rich as he is (as he is presumed to be), is always right; how can an ordinary citizen complain upon that? They are indeed envious, no further explanation is likely.
Does someone complain on the own meager wage, insecure job, while this wily guy is enjoying his "baccanali"? How do they dare that?
Ordinary citizens, as they don't live the way he does - wealthy as much - they never deserve being considered.
They shall either shut up or hail cheerfully whatever he says.
Vulgar compliments to women, foolish and blasphemous funny stories, gags? That must be considered good humour, if it comes from him.

Is all that berlusconiani's philosophy?


Bersani, the odd leader of the former-communists in Italy (the word former is a euphemism) was overheard saying: 'In an election year isn't necessary to fool all the people all the time - only in the period just before the election'. If this odd character, this political joke gets elected to office then it's no joke. Sure. Imagination is the thing that makes Bersani thinks he is a statesman. He was once minister under Prodi: his solutions to the problems were usually worse than the problems. He has a degree in philosophy therefore he hasn't the foggiest idea about economy and shortly said that he doesn't understand the income tax and the VAT. The guy wants to come to power in Italy. It's the worse thing that could happen. There's worse in store with the other fellows (Monti and Berlusconi) too. Do fear the worst!


In the 19th century a lot of people have been fighting and struggling to turn Italy into a civil and democratic society as well as to shape it as a country in its whole.
Something comparisonable happened during World War II; partisans siding with the Anglo-US troops, to fight the Nazis.
In the last decades a few dullards and crooks, feigning and claiming they were going to modernize Italian culture and society,
have quite put our nation into ashes.

We can still live and find the way to earn our living and keep our dignity, whatever society we belong to, we can rise again.
The crooks and mobsters shall be received into their deserved compound: Regina Coeli, Rebibbia (Rome), San Vittore (Milan), Due Palazzi (Padua). These are a few "security and custody compounds", in Italy, fit for them. It will be up to judges, at the end, to issue which of these gaols those fellows shall be kept in.

Landscaper in reply to longman333

That will indeed more real, as long as a lot of people find a normal matter just minding the own business despite any rule and thus considering as legitimate when businesspeople work out a policy on the own purpose. Berlusconi and Umberto-the-Boozer are indeed the expression of such Italians, the ones who tease somebody else complaining on anybody else's dishonesty or wishing to act as much as possible respectfully of law.

longman333 in reply to Landscaper

The partisans who sided with the Anglo-US troops were the same Italians who 1940, as they thought that Germany was about to win the war, were eager to side Hitler at all costs. But in the year 1943, as they saw that they had backed the wrong horse....changed horse as all 'decent' traitors do at the right moment. In the year 1915, at the time of the World War I, they played the same trick!

Landscaper in reply to longman333

No reason to discuss on this topic, I already said my opinion about that. We are not indeed speaking about history. In any way, Berlusconi shall admit that politics, if well pursued, is no theatre at all. He is not on stage, he must therefore step down. I read pleasantly on the Financial Times a recent and interesting article about Mr Bersani. Whatever somebody may think as well as the importance they may acknowledge on non-Italian press news and opinion, it's clear indeed that more transparency, more open-mindedness, a better and updated wiew upon Europe is there by him. Comparison with Berlusconi is respectively between a well-shaped politician and someone turned at last minute into politics on his own purpose, regardless of everything and everybody.
I advise everybody to read it too. I imagine that somebody will come to a conclusion just saying he is a Communist. Mere ideological reference, usual meaningless argument.

Are all British newsmedia Communist-accomplished?
Are also other countries' ones like that?

longman333 in reply to Landscaper



On the track of a famous Italian current TV ad
(speaking on that same tone)

Demagoguery and foolery are always immediate as much as easy.
Planning together useful policy, in the middle and longer term is hard and unpopular, although wishful.
There are a few easy and foolish tasks,
the remainder requires skill.


"Mr Berlusconi’s decision to stand for prime minister in the general election that will probably coincide with the vote in Lombardy on February 17th is shattering the Italian right."

What a pleasant sentence to read. ;-)

shaun39 in reply to MilovanDjilas

Considering that "Italian right" means anti-free-market, anti-European, pro-deficit spending, turn-a-blind-eye-to-corruption and all that, while "socialist" means pragmatic, fiscally responsible, pro-cleaning-up-corruption and pro-structural reform, I'm completely with you.

Bring on the Italian left (i.e. the economic and social liberals).

longman333 in reply to shaun39

Any man who is not something of a socialist before he is twenty has no heart. Any man who is still socialist after he is twenty has no head. The functions of socialism is to raise suffering to a higher level. The inherent virtue of Socialism is the equal sharing of miseries. Bersani the former communist now running for MP in Italy: an inexperienced nonentity of the utmost insignificance. A village fiddler who is looking for simpletons and fools.

shaun39 in reply to longman333

Not much to gain with partisan rhetoric.

Bersani is a politician - I expect him to have countless faults and personal failings. He can't be anywhere near so bad as Berlusconi.

Prodi - in his very brief time - actually cut the deficit, raised retirement ages and put Italy on a more sustainable path. While I would far prefer a more ambitious pro-growth and pro-freedom party, Bersani's party at least seams to be a little bit pragmatic and willing to do what's absolutely necessary.

Italian people deserve better - they shouldn't have to suffer more corruption, stagnation or Berlusconi.

longman333 in reply to shaun39

Growth is something which is peculiar to market economy something which is light years afar from Socialism or Communism as in the case in point(Bersani is a former communist). If we consider the background of this politician it goes without saying that all European leaders are worried about Italy, should Bersani come to power in Italy. What kind of growth can leftists stimulate. They can only stimulate the flight abroad of capitals,businessmen, and firms. There would be very difficult, terrible times ahead of the Italians if they would be so foolish to vote for the leftists.

longman333 in reply to zorzon

Monti has the typical behaviour of a charlatan, of a seller of used cars. If we consider that he was advisor of the merchant bank Goldman Sachs and contributed to sell junk funds to a great number of savers ruining them, he can be considered, without any doubt, as a common swindler or fraudster of the worst sort. That some leaders put their trust in him is laughable. The high esteem some leaders are helding him is wrongly placed. That's the proof how people can be cheated through pose. Even high members of the world governments easily fall in the trps of wily the case in point.

longman333 in reply to zorzon


MilovanDjilas in reply to zorzon

"all politicians in Italy are the same...including Monti whose asterity measures have made Italy's 118% go to 123% in under 12 months."

Yes - while doing nothing to attack the golden pensions as they did in Greece. The pensions over 5000 euros should be reduced by 40%.
Monti's pension is said to be over €70,000 MONTHLY. I think he was sponsored by the Roman political class of Left, Centre and Right in an attempt to put one of the old guard's best, most credible faces forward - so that they could save Italian finances WITHOUT having to slash their pensions.
And on this count, he has failed. Some 16.6% of gdp spent on pensions is unsustainable, "punto e basta". Either they will slash pension expense - beginning with the golden pensions, not those who receive 500-1500 euros - or the state will soon not be able to pay the pensions.

Monti and the rest of the Roman political class (Monti is not a northerner any more, in my opinion) don't seem to understand that northern industry and the northern economy cannot withstand this level of taxation much longer. The debt needs to be reduced, state holdings need to be privatised and our gold reserves need to be traded at the ECB in exchange for our debt the bank purchased last year - all within a short period of time, in 2013. Because corporate taxes need to be slashed in half, as soon as possible - say 2014. Every month that passes we lose another several thousand companies and how many jobs?

longman333 in reply to shaun39

Socialism, let alone Communism, is the most crazy, insane ideology which has ever infested the planet Earth for the last 300.000 years. This ideology, as scientific studies have proved, can only take root on lower minds, fools, morons and simpletons.

shaun39 in reply to longman333

The point to realise is that Italian "socialists" are not really socialists. They are not ideologically charged - they are just pragmatic left-of-centre politicians.

The name is historical, and the rhetoric (which is pretty much gone anyway) is more of a brand than a basis for policy.


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