


Nobody’s satellite state

In negotiating with the outside world, Kim Jong Un turns out to be a chip off the old block

See article

Readers' comments



I just had a thought:

A. Prior to moving to Chongqing, Bo Xilai was based at Liaoniang province, right next to North Korea.
B. North Korea's announcement of the 'satellite' launch came the day after Bo Xilai's sacking.

Could it be that it was Bo Xilai who financed and supported the entire nuclear weapons and missiles program of North Korea all these years?

Anjin-San in reply to Anjin-San

I am surprised that neither the Economist nor any of the commentators have so far publicly linked North Korea with Bo Xilai, though they have had much common ground and means of covert communication.
Bo Xilai actually graduated from the Kim Il-Sung university in Pyongyang too....


We were all told that this launch is important to NK regime's survival, while it's not such a big deal for the US, and probably the launch will fail again. So, why not give NK half of the food IF they allow nuclear inspectors in first and call this a partial success and move on with the re-election?

President Obama, you should ignore the screams about your caving in to the kid, those warmongers are not going to vote for you anyway.

Vinnie from Tewksbury in reply to Houshu

China allows the North to exist. China sould feed the North. Why should the US taxpayers pay to feed the children of a corrupt and self-serving regime that starves its own people? China, Russia, and Vietnam were all anti-capitalist countries at one time. Now they are embracing capitalism and it is doing wonders for their countries. One would think that the North Koreans could learn from their neighbors. The Kim family could never and cannot be trusted to keep their promises. This is a Chinese proble and not an American problem.

Vinnie from Tewksbury

The so-called six nation group is a waste of time. Only China can force North Korea to end its nuclear program. China chooses not to interfere in the internal affairs of its "loser" neighbor and, therefore, North Korea continues to exist. It's existence is predicated on the subjugation and starvation of its own people. We should walk away from this mess. We should not give any further assistance to the regime. It will only extend its life and only increase the pain and suffering of its people. Again, only China can cause change in North Korea and China refuses to do so. China is one of the real culprit for the existence of North Korea.

Yes however, if North Korea goes away there is no need for US troops in the south. China would want us to leave and I am sure that a unified Korea would also ask us to leave. I do think this is what the US would want also. There are only 30,000 or so US troops in Korea. They are there as a tripwire to discourage the north from invading the south. Our presence in Japan is another story.

McJakome in reply to MostJustWantPeace

Unlike militarist countries [NK, China, Russia, etc] the US military has always obeyed the civil government, and the civil government has never been under their control.

The Great MacArthur was fired for disagreeing with the President of the US. For which the Chinese should be forever grateful, as he wanted to nuke them.

South Korea is and will remain an independent country. It is in a purely voluntary alliance with the US, which is a major trading partner. This relationship will remain unchanged as long as the Korean people believe this to be in their best interest.

"긴 한국-미국 우정을 살고 있습니다."

McJakome in reply to MostJustWantPeace

Show me a country that looks benevolent and I'll show you a country with a really effective propaganda department. There is no country that does not look out for its own interests, at least if it wants to survive. The US is no exception.

Some countries are more inclined toward collective [cooperative may be a better and less loaded word] action or defense than toward "with us or against us" unilateralism.

Team USA generally can include all of western Europe and countries that are [with reason] fearful of neighborhood hegemonic/imperialist/neoimperialist states [China and Russia].

The protection on offer may not be entirely without strings [i.e. benefit for the protector], but it is the decision of the countries buying insurance to buy it.

MostJustWantPeace in reply to McJakome

Well, the US is also a hegemon, not just China and Russia. Plus, the new battles we see will not be outright war and territorial expansion. It will be much more subtle, fought over cyberspace, via the intelligence services, even by private military contractors.

The US is more inclined toward collective action because it is the most powerful country in the world, w/ a military far ahead of China or Russia's. If you were an average country, wouldn't you look more toward the US because of its power, its influence (the US, w/ some European assistance, built the postwar international structure we are so familiar w/ today), and the benefits it can provide? So I wonder, would the US be as collective in action or defense when its decline becomes more obvious and glaring, or the power and influence advantage it holds is much slimmer? Would various countries still look to the US and be willing to cooperate w/ it?

McJakome in reply to MostJustWantPeace

Those are very good points. As to what will really happen in the future, as Chou En-Lai [周恩来] is reported saying when asked about the effects of the French Revolution, "It's too early to tell."

The interesting thing about the words hegemon and empire are that they mean different things in different contexts, and both are often abused and distorted by propagandists and polemicists I have heard the U.S. called both in ways that were logical and/or defensible, and more often in ways that were not.

The U.S. is both a republic and a democracy because the people really do have the last say, unlike so-called "people's democratic republics" where there is no democracy, the people do not rule and which often behave more like hereditary absolute monarchies than like republics.

The history of US interventionism is remarkable in that in order to go to war the people have to be convinced to support it. Once started, if the people become disabused, they will cease to support it, and the government may fall [see Vietnam].


It´s about time the US,China and SK cut a deal to give Kim III a Caucescu treatment and either reunify a finlandized Korean peninsula or set up a Chinese-controlled government in NK- maybe with Chinese peacekeepers, or Chinese military basis Bosnia or Kosovo-like.

The current government in NK is just too devious, unpredictable and unruly for stability in Asia. Kim III will eventually make a wrong move, as it is to be expected from a person of his age, position and upbringing in such psychopathic conditions. China, the US. Japan,SK and naturally the NK people will pay the consequences of procrastination.

But will the nationalists in SK agree to overt Chinese control in NK? China, in case you didn't know, gets knocked left and right in Korea, and though they act chummy in public, NK resents China deep-down as well. If you want to know the reason, just research the history of the region.

jvictor1789 in reply to MostJustWantPeace

I know, but anything is better than the current status quo for North Koreans.

The amazing evil power of nationalism:they are starving while their brothers in the South thrive as they could; their government brainwashes them into being thankful for their enslavement, but it´s all OK because Kim III is "defending His nation"-whatever that means.


Ironically I think that North Korea never realized the most likely cause for the U.S to decide to attack would be the very nuclear program that they seem to think guarantees the safety of the North Korea state.
The U.S has never really been interested in helping pay for the costs of reunification with South Korea and that interest has simply dwindled as it's become obvious just how incredibly expensive that would be compared to East Germany. The fact that South Korea also doesn't really want to pay such a high bill only helps.
Additionally, while there isn't much doubt in the U.S that we could destroy the North Korean state if we wanted to, the human cost would be rather high simply because of the sheer size of the North Korean military and the fact that North Korea is likely to target Seoul and other civilian areas.
Aside from that, the U.S really doesn't want to risk war with China. It's one thing to send ships nearby to remind North Korea and China that if we want to we can reach them, it's another to risk a major war with a vital economic partner over what's frankly a rather unimportant part of the world. In all honesty, the only reason the U.S cares is that we don't want South Korea and Japan threatened.
North Korea has never been a threat to the U.S before it tried to acquire nuclear weapons. You can argue that Saddam's Iraq and Qaddafi's Libya weren't threats either, but at least part of the Bush administration actually believed it was trying to restart its WMD program and Iraq was in a position to negatively influence the oil based global economy. In Libya the U.S had accustomed itself to a new relationship with Qaddafi until the rebellion split the nation and army into pieces. In contrast North Korea really has no influence on the world besides trying to acquire nuclear weapons and the U.S doesn't care who rules as long as they stop launching military strikes on South Korean targets. If it weren't for nuclear weapons and that tendency to launch attacks we really wouldn't care.
The U.S calculates that sooner or later the sheer amount of problems North Korea has will either force the state to make pragmatic political and economic changes that make it less of a problem. Either that or the and soldiery will rebel and the U.S won't need a major military deployment.
Ultimately it all leads to the same conclusion. It's the effort to obtain nuclear weapons that has the U.S so angry.

MostJustWantPeace in reply to Gigle

I don't think we will see a NK invasion unless someone really touched in the head (I don't think thats Kim Jong-un) takes power there. I mean, NK understands it will be annihilated if it goes to war w/ SK, and if they start the fight, there is absolutely no guarantee China would help them out like they did in 1950. Basically, NK, I think is much more paranoid about being invaded by the US, hence the development of nuclear weapons (that and blackmail). Of course, there always the risk of proliferation, especially if the Kim regime has to resort to the sale of weapon components and know-how to earn hard currency (it already has).

Gigle in reply to MostJustWantPeace

I wasn't suggesting that North Korea would invade* but North Korea might and has launched military attacks on South Korea multiple times in the past, secure in the knowledge that the U.S and South Korea aren't going to retaliate.

*Though that's a constant possibility and one of the reasons why the U.S won't completely end its use of land mines.

Gigle in reply to MostJustWantPeace

Actually Europe probably does count. France and the U.K are two of the few nations that can field stealth planes, aircraft carriers and truly modern armies. Germany is one of the largest economies on Earth and is gradually regaining power it lost from World War II and fifty years of division. So all the talk of European decline ignores the fact that Europe is still well ahead much of Asia, Africa and South America.

Additionally Brazil is one of those rising powers and it has made serious strides towards eliminating its mine stockpiles.

Devils Advocate_1

The world's sole superpower is out-witted by a Boy Emperor. ;-D, ;-D...


MostJustWantPeace in reply to Gigle

Well, the fact that a supposedly insignificant speck of a pariah country like NK can force the US's hand and trick it into sending food aid ought to earn its leaders and diplomats some respect, irrespective of whether or not you find their domestic and foreign actions non-agreeable.

Devils Advocate_1 in reply to Gigle

[Outwitted? The U.S can send or stop food aid whenever it likes.]

That's the idea. Boy Kim never wanted your food aid in the first place. By luring Uncle into making that promise and then forcing Uncle to break it, Boy Kim win a political point.


Gigle in reply to Devils Advocate_1

Because doing something that the U.N (which isn't especially pro-American) has outright said is crossing a red line makes the U.S response look bad. I think you'll find the vast majority of people in the world don't really care.
This also is in the same year when North Korean state propaganda has told its citizens for some time that 2012 will be a great year of prosperity for North Korea. Really the North Korean state has lost a lot more than the U.S has. In a sense, this is actually somewhat beneficial for the U.S. It reminds the South Koreans and Japanese why the U.S bases are there.

Kurt Lessing

Talking to North Korea is useless. Talk to China instead, ask them what they stand to gain by propping up their awkward ally and find a solution for them to change things without loosing face. Without China, the North Korean regime would have collapsed long ago, nukes or no nukes.

Gigle in reply to Kurt Lessing

China can't afford the collapse of the North Korean state. If it does, the best (or worst depending on how you see it) case scenario would be South Korean soldiers smoothly occupying the nation, South Korea announcing reunification under the South Korean government, the disappearance of one of the few definite allies China has (at the same time Burma is starting to be less reliable) and the possibility of U.S soldiers on the border with China.

The other scenarios involve North Korea falling to pieces with warlords fighting over the territory, the U.S threatening to invade if China doesn't do something, millions of North Korean refugees flooding the border and the threat of China being forced to send soldiers to occupy North Korea and get dragged into a military mess with no sure political outcome.

Basically China is tied to the sinking ship that is North Korea. They obviously can't do much to change it and they can't drop it.

MostJustWantPeace in reply to Gigle

I wonder what SK and US reaction would be if China decides to occupy NK when it collapses? I mean, I heard that the SK economy would be severely affected if it tires to absorb the mess that is NK. Heck, it would make German reunification and the economic hardship afterwards look like a picnic outing.

I don't know if you have, but there have been recent news that NK is finally taking its SEZ's seriously, w/ a special focus on Rason (or Nason in SK). Wonder how that will work out.

Gigle in reply to MostJustWantPeace

The U.S would be publicly disturbed and privately it would be a mixed of 'disturbed' and 'relieved'. We would be angry that China was sending its soldiers into North Korea but relieved that they had decided to handle it and we could avoid the risk of war. South Korea I have no idea.

However I doubt China would do so willingly. China doesn't want to run the risk of starting an anti-Chinese resistance in North Korea, it doesn't want to take on the huge costs of not just occupation but also rebuilding a nation that has been horribly behind its neighbors for decades.

As for Special Economic Zones, we've heard hype about how North Korea was working with China and South Korea before. Little good came of it. In one instance a North Korean guard actually shot a South Korean woman for accidentally wandering outside of a tourist zone and North Korea is not above suddenly ending deals and seizing the infrastructure. With the kind of leadership North Korea has only a gullible fool would invest anything there.


The economist is correct in describing that unlike South Korea, North Korea is nobody's satelite state!

MostJustWantPeace in reply to sikko6

Very correct - thus, China should be believed when it says that it actually doesn't have as many tools for dealing w/ NK, unlike the US in regard to SK. The food shipments and other support can be used as a threat, but it is just like a hostage situation. If China (hostage-taker) kills the hostage (the food, oil, and other aid), the police (NK) will not hesitate to strike (or NK, in this case, will just ignore China and be truly out of control, wreaking disaster in its neighborhood).

Note; if you think my statement above is funny, do realize that that was not my intention.

Gigle in reply to sikko6

South Korea is hardly a satellite state. If it were the U.S would find it easier to coordinate North Korean policy and South Korea wouldn't have adopted mercantile policies that benefit South Korean companies at the expense of American ones.

McJakome in reply to sikko6

In a contest as to which Koreans detest their local once and future wannabe hegemon [China]most, the result would be a tie. It is Chinese hegemonist behavior that keeps the South a staunch ally of the US.

"Better the danger far away, than the the well known one nearby."

MostJustWantPeace in reply to McJakome


Then the US should not be surprised then when Cuba falls more into the Chinese orbit (China already utilizes the old Soviet listening stations there to collect intelligence from comm traffic coming from the US).


First of all this agreement is not a failure for the Obama administration. This was considered a test by the State Department to see what how the new regime behaved. Would they be as untrustworthy as the previous one or not?

America's goal here was largely to how the new North Korean would react, what does America lose for this? Some biscuits. At a minimum, this agreement saved some starving people, hardly lamentable.

And finally, NO, it is not conceivable that the North Koreans misunderstood the agreement to permit satellites. The rocket launching the satellite is a ballistic missile with its warhead swapped out. That's why during the Cold War we had a missile contest known as the Space Race rather than a basket weaving contest. The agreement signed by the North Korea was explicit in forbidding any launches of this sort. This is just the North Koreans going back to their familiar game of seeing how much they can get away with - what does North Korea need satellites for anyways? Global Telecommunication? Please...

It's nationalism and pride in the Korean race. Koreans are very nationalistic. I'm Chinese, so I can only give a few observations. For example, my mom once talked about a NK vs. China soccer match. The NK players played w/ all their effort, never giving an inch of wriggling room to the Chinese. This really stunned the audience, and the NK team won a lot of accolades from them, including that of my mom.

Ronald Grey

Dear Sir or Madam,

North Korea's pursuit of technology that can deliver a WMD to American shores is most worrisome when one considers the potential for its tyranny to cooperate with terrorists (i.e. three Ts of the Bush doctrine).

See 'Bush Doctrine' http://wp.me/pZiAD-1d8

Ronald Grey


"LIKE a candle in a howling gale, optimism about North Korea is hard to keep alight"

Were you listening to Elton John when you wrote this article?

Houshu in reply to Spectacularj1

well, we don't know. But somehow president Obama was continueing:

"...I thought it's easy to con you,
'cause you are just a kid,
candle burnt out long before,
my winning reelection bid.."

Connect The Dots

The North Koreans are hungry, cold and tired.
Food and fuel, though basic in most countries, become valuable in impoverished countries.
The Americans and their allies have time on their side. Patience.

Except that when North Korea finally collapses, it will be in an inferno, accompanied by waves of refugees across both China's and South Korea's borders, and then extreme military tension in the region.

North Korea is a disease now, but will be a plague when it collapses.

McJakome in reply to FruitLoops990

NK has been a localized plague for some time already. If the regime finally melts down causing a wave of refugees, then blame China for keeping their satellite zombie state propped up for political reasons.

A refugee wave is most likely to be across the long Manchurian border, and China will bear the brunt of it. The results will not be pretty, and Chinese reactions will darken a reputation not now among the best.

MostJustWantPeace in reply to McJakome

Hopefully, Chinese efforts to build fences along the border will have solve some of the problems. Or, the PLA might just elect to advance a little across the border and set up collection points for refugees and provide food, water, and other aid there so that they don't actually cross the border.


the US is intent on getting NK into a submissive position, and thought they had them for a few weeks; NK knows this, and had to remind everyone that they've still got it.

but they aren't violating the agreement. the US is the power here, not NK. what's more important? keeping the DPRK humiliated and weak, (on the basis of the barely relevant technicalities of a fragile agreement); or engaging with them and getting a nuclear weapons moratorium going (requiring keeping the a longer term goal of peace in mind)?

clearly the first. the DPRK must be crushed for the US to ever be satisfied. when the agreement falls apart, it will be the fault of the US.

AtlantisKing in reply to salkagga

This kind of reasoning might work in North Korea (where are you writng from?), but the rest of the world does not buy this sort of twisted logic.

North Korea got itself in a submissive position - humiliated and weak in your words - without any help from abroad. Rattling its sabers will not change that - it'll only make the rest of the world feel sorrier for this people shackled by bankrupt economic model and oppressed by a kleptocratic regime.

Yet, the regime insists on defying any agreement it makes. Wants to keep your missiles and WMDs? Then starve...


I have long said that Kim Jong-un was an unlikely source for change in North Korea, despite what some westerners hoped from his education in Switzerland. When the food aid settlement was announced, I began to doubt myself a little. Unfortunately, now I know that I was right.

I still hope that I am wrong though. It should have been easily foreseeable that the North would try something as foolhardy as this to celebrate their Stalinist deity's 100th birthday. The North Korean regime, just like any other dictatorships, derive their right to rule through persecution paranoia and ridiculous claims to strength on the world stage. What better way to manufacture the former, and support the latter, than a 'satellite test' that has the entire world talking about North Korea, yet again?

Kim77 in reply to Connect The Dots

Oh, get away from here, will you?

I said "I wouldn't jump to your conclusion". I never insinuated neo-Nazi involvement. And there was no logical basis to jump to your conclusion that a Muslim terrorist had carried out the Toulouse killings, given that an earlier, similar attack had killed three French soldiers of Arab descent. I was right to call you out on your groundless reasoning - and point out that anything was possible, which I did.

Courts do not accept hindsight evidence, and neither do I. You were right only incidentally, not because you had an ironclad reasoning process that led inexorably to that conclusion.


Latest blog posts - All times are GMT
Deportations: A kinder expulsion
Democracy in America March 14th, 21:38
Blasphemy laws: Wrong on so many levels
Erasmus March 14th, 17:20
Keynes and Hayek: Prophets for today
Free exchange March 14th, 16:43
Democracy in America March 14th, 15:55
Gay rights in Lebanon: Laws of nature
Pomegranate March 14th, 15:43
Airlines and hotels: Room at the top
Gulliver March 14th, 15:42


Products & events