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not believe -- you can say the same thing for the obama white house -- they think america's undertaxed and the tax rates can go dramatically higher despite these examples in europe without it hurting economic growth. i think they are completely wrong. i think you can draw just the opposite conclusion of what's going on in europe. but apparently we're going down that route anyway. >> isn't that why president obama wants to raise the tax rate? he raises the tax rate in order to spend. seems to me that taxing and spending is his mantra, just like the east european mantra and the california and new york -- why would you want to raise the tax rate $1.6 trillion if youp didn didn't want to spe? that's a big number. >> it is. jared bernstein was in "the new york times" complaining about the tax cutting in this country over the past 30 years. and jared says, we've gutted the tax code, we're just not getting enough revenue for all the spending we want. >> i would gut the tax code of all its special deductions and loopholes and whatnot and take the rate down to about 15%. i am a flat tax guy. wh

was at a standstill, boehner spent the day at the white house with obama, and we like to spend our afternoons with analysts. elsie granderson, and navarro. we have the senior writer for espn. good to see both of you. okay? >> yes. >> boehner had pretty tough words for the president on friday. let's listen. >> there is a lot of things possible to put the revenue on the table but none of it will be possible if the president insists on his position and insist on my way or the highway. >> anna, he also said the white house has wasted another week, and now two days later, they are meeting again. did boehner's remarks make the difference? >> good. i think it's great. we cannot reach a deal if you are posturing and negotiating through press conferences. they need to sit in a room and look at each other. they need to talk constructive debate and they need to move this ball forward. i think what happened today is a very good sign. americans should be encouraged, it's a good thing when the congressional leadership and the president are actually capable of meeting and talking about the difficult issues


that president obama and the white house or rather, president obama and the house speaker have spoken tonight. good news. this after they each fired another shot in the ongoing fight over how to resolve this fiscal cliff mess. cnn is now getting details about two new offers that were made and previously undisclosed, too. they kept a pretty tight lid on them. one of them by president obama, that was yesterday, then a counteroffer by the speaker. that was today. all of this as the president tells abc news tonight that he is confident that republicans will not hold middle class tax cuts hostage. so there's a lot of news that's all of a sudden coming out. after some relative quiet. our white house correspondent dan lothian is on the case and joins me now by telephone, because you've been working your sources. take me into the conversation. all of this breaking late today and it sounds good. it sounds at least like there's some movement, dan. >> reporter: that's right. that's always been the issue, because as you know, it was just last week we were talking about the fact that there were no talks o



oath: the obama white house and the supreme court." so what exactly does he mean? you've studied justice scalia. you have studied the law. when he talks about the reduction to the absurd. >> well, it's actually a very interesting controversy that may be changing before our very eyes, wolf. because historically one of the grounds that congress can pass a law is they say, we morally disapprove. moral disapproval is not an aprop pree grounds for a government action but over time the court has said certain kinds of moral disapproval is no longer allowed. you can't simply disapprove of blacks and whites going to school together and pass a law. the question now is, is moral disapproval of homosexuality a legitimate ground for the government doing anything? that's really one of the main issues in this case coming out. >> that's his argument, that that's why he's opposed to it? is that what you're saying? >> well, what he's saying is that the legislature, whether it's a state legislature or congress can say we morally disapprove of homosexuality, thus we will say they can't get married t

the white house saying their wasting time and president obama is bringing our economy right to the edge. >> ford your we offered a serious proposal based on testimony of friends that clinton's former chief of staff. since then there has been no counteroffer from the white house. instead, reports indicate that the president has adopted a deliberate strategy to a slow walk our economy rght to the edge of the fiscal clif. gerri: earlier i asked republican senator richard shelby of alabama for his take on the comments from boehner. >> i believe that speaker boehner is on the right track. the president has not come uptown now, been deeply involved, that we know about , in any of these offers are counteroffers. dealers said he has been campaigning to meet. but he has to get inolved if he wants to avoid the fiscal cliff. i think that the speaker has indicated that he will try to engage in, try to meet him and try to avoid the fiscal cleft that the presiient is going to continue to say it is my way or the highway, that is another game. gerri: it is. harry reid today saying that the game is at

'm not sure the way we phrased that, the obama administration's decision to invite him, because the white house says they weren't the ones who invited him at all, but they didn't step in to stop it or object to it in any way after it emerged that he had gone on this rant eight years ago, and it is a disgusting rant, and i think most of the viewers would agree that, you know, calling for the troops and their families to be killed slowly and painfully is controversial at best. now, he did issue an apology, but what should the white house have done, brad? >> well, i know something about this because as somebody who scheduled the president of the united states, george w. bush, the white house celebration is an event that is typically on every president's calendar. but that doesn't mean the president has to attend and has carte blanche over the producers or the producers or have carte blanche over the president as to what he will do and who he will appear with. we had vetting and research at the white house when i was there, and i would have picked this up and said, hey, by the way, this sensa

obama and congressmen boehner met at the white house yesterday. stocks inched higher on the news, with the dow and s&p 500 near 5-week highs. selling in apple once again held back the nasdaq. gold was up and oil was down. a two-day fed meeting starts today with the fed most likely talking about stimulating the economy by purchasing more treasury bonds to keep interest rates low. the government is selling its remaining stake in aig... and reports say regulators have a $1.9 billion dollar settlement with hsbc. the bank is accussed of laundering money for drug dealers and terrorists. john brady of rj o'brien joins us now. john, are you seeing any special positioning ahead of the fed? > > we have angie. over the course of the last two weeks so, we have seen equity markets continue to "melt up," as traders would say, continue to be sort of supported by this idea that the federal reserve is going to continue its method of quantitative easing. the fed meeting to start today. however, we will receive the announcement from the fed tomorrow, perhaps around 1:00 or so wednesday. but, the id

michigan plant, the white house came out against the move sighing president obama has long opposed right-to-work laws and continues to oppose them now. by the way, a quick little aside on this disagreement among conservatives about what tactic boehner should take "the journal" versus kristol. this gives boehner more room, more power, more of an ability to get a deal done because there isn't conservative consensus on how to back seat cut boehner. secretary of state hillary clinton finishes up her final weeks as america's top diplomat and has to contemplate her next move. the clinton world is not sitting quietly, though. t "the new york times" kicked off what is likely to become a monthly exercise by somebody in the media. we may come up with a meter. probably throw in jeb in there, right? we should call it the hillary jebatron version 2016. probably jon stewart starting that up already. jodie cantor interviewed a number of clinton aides about future plans and strikingly a lot of them talked. while clinton has dozens of options when she leaves the state department, cantor makes a smart obs


? the white house says it can happen. >> president obama and speaker boehner sit down at the white house. >> their first one on one in three weeks. >> the heavy lifting is going to have to happen this week. >> if this week goes bad -- >> this week is going to be a critical week. >> even if the speaker and president are cuddling in the lincoln bedroom -- >> i think everybody needs to cool their jets. >> that's not going to get us a deal. >> raising taxing will hurt the economy. >> your stuff stink. we don't want it. >> if anybody out there who is, quote, rich doesn't think that their taxes go up, drink are on me. >> republicans are totally over the barrel. >> raising tax rates will hurt the economy. >> we'll push it all the way to the senate and then we'll lose. >>> with 22 days until we take that first step off the fiscal curb, president obama traveled to michigan to keep the pressure on republicans in congress. >> if congress doesn't act soon, meaning in the next few weeks, starting on january 1st, everybody's going to see their income taxes go up. it's true. y'all don't like that, huh?

that, huh? >> and you can tell how confident president barack obama knows how positive his polls are on his side of this issue. but on the game where he's campaigning publicly and negotiating privately. as you said meeting with john boehner at the white house yesterday. and clearly the president is meeting with republicans and then checking back with democrats. we see this pattern now a couple of times last week he met with or spoke to boehner. and then met with nancy pelosi, the democratic leader on capitol hill. today we're told he had a phone call on air force one from harry reid. presumably to go over what it is their hashing out behind the scenes. a public and private scene going on here. >> they don't have to be face to face to keep the negotiations going. thank you. and as we get closer to the cliff's edge, a number of republicans in congress say they would be willing to accept tax increases on the wealthiest americans if they are accompanied by large enough spending cuts. >> one of those is tom cole who is a republican from oklahoma who joins us now live from capitol hill

president obama's first term, the white house said he is committed to a leaner federal government in his second. but press secretary jay carney could only point to one fairly limited initiative to accomplish that. >> the president has put forward proposal to streamline and reorganize the variety of agencies that deal with commerce in the federal government. exports. >> the obama era in terms of the government hiring proved less kind to the states. from january 2009 through last month, according to bureau of labor statistics, the number of the state employees declineed by 120,000 or little over 2%. >> bret: thank you. up next. the president's defense secretary backs away from words about syria and chemical weapons. >> bret: the pentagon top man says syria appears to have slowed the preparation to use chemical weapons against opposition forces. some of those forces may not exactly be friendly to the u.s. national security correspondent jennifer griffin has the latest. >> hours after the state department declared a syrian faction terrorist organization, members of the syrian opposition anno


that makes it harder. >> and tell us something about the obama white house that we don't know. >> what does obama think of mitt romney? what does he really think? and i think he feels that romney is incompetent because he didn't run a better campaign. and i suspect that one of the themes in all the coverage of the campaign is going to be romney never found a way to -- either the method or the theme of how to run against obama. whereas they thought it was going to be easy. >> we're about to give the hook here. what is the one thing you would like to know about president obama that you don't? >> oh, i did ask him this. i didn't put it in the book. he keeps a diary. and so i'd like to have access. [laughter] >> assume that's for -- >> do you keep a diary? yes. not on all this detailed kind of -- let's see it. so that's going to -- i'm sure he will write a really interesting memoir. >> what did he tell you about the diary? >> that it existed. no detail. he didn't offer any of it or read from it or anything like that. i'm -- is it dictated? is it written? you know ronald reagan kept his deiry th

and cutting benefits long term and been floated and what this is is obama and the white house have ruled out invoking the 14th amendment aez a work around of not giving the republicans leverage on the debt ceiling and decided to roll a debt ceiling extension in to the fiscal cliff deal whatever they end up striking here and seems to me acknowledging republicans have leverage with cpi and talking about raising the medicare age. my question to you as a progressive is, republicans want something big. is there any big concessions you can see acceptable? >> new york city i really can't. and the kind of things we are talking about, even if they're not -- may not be acceptable to me ever but talking about a version of the changed cpi, the president already said social security is off the table because it is not driving the deficit. that's kind of weird. changes to medicare eligibility again or changes to medicare payments or whatever, it's really complicated to negotiate but i have to say i agree with you, steve. i'm -- i wish that the president hadn't taken the 14th amendment off the table because

of it the obamas will have a fun holiday. >> the white house is ready for christmas. today first lady michelle obama has given a tour and that is not it. >> there's been a lot of soul searching going on at fox news. and i am confident that they eventually will find one. >> i think they park better than i do. >> psy said some anti-american things. ♪ >> no big deal. we don't believe psy. >> controversy erupts after president obama embraces a rapper once calling for the death of innocent americans. >> he was caught on camera shaking his hand. he's not going to stand up for our brave men and women in the military? that's pretty sad. >> we have specifics coming out of our eyeballs. i'm very confident we can take the smat. we're doing to win this race because people know we need a better future for this country and i don't think people are hoping for four more years of this mess. >> let's get to our panel. jonathan capehart is an msnbc contributor and karen finney is an msnbc political analyst and the former director of communications at the dnc. karen, the rnc has just announced something called

and president obama met at the white house yesterday. both released statements basically they wouldn't say anything, but that "the lines of communication remain open." can we hope for a deal any time soon? cory booker, the mayor of newark, new jersey. nice to have you with us. >> very nice to be here. >> not part of the fiscal cliff discussions, apparently downo the two of them. what happens to your city if we go over the fiscal cliff? >> it's a real challenge for people all over my state, frankly. a lot of families in this tough economic time, seeing them having $2,000 or more on average of expenses of not enjoying tax cuts, will make a real impact. people barely making mortgage payments, falling behind on car payments this will be a difficult thing. and that will have a multiplier affect. people who don't have extra money to spend hurt the stores that that would be shopping in, the food they would be buying, so on, so forth this is a time we can't have a government that is especially republicans, holding hostage all of this country. 98% of our country. >> a negotiation. so i wouldn't --

for you. >> tonight controversy erupts after president obama embraces a rapper who once called for the death of innocent americans. he recently called the anointed one our lord and our savior, and now jamie foxx is under fire for joking about murdering white people. as the fiscal cliff draws near, the anointed one prepares for another hawaii megavacation. rudy giuliani and allen west are here to talk about the misplaced presidential priorities. and the deejays behind the royal nurse suicide break their silence. tonight on "hannity," our commander in chief embraces a rapper calling for the death of innocent americans. now practically everybody in america has heard about the gangnam style popular song by the rapper psy. listen. >> ♪ ♪ >> sean: very popular. while the youtube video has had more than 900 million hits, new information about the singer is emerging. back in 2004, the rapper performed a song entitled "dear american" with the lyrics, quote, kill those black yankees who have been torturing iraqi captives. kill those black yankees who ordered them to torture. kill the

the obama administration is offering $1.4 trillion in revenue. you remember the previous offer by the white house was 1.6 trillion in revenue. so a little decline there but, no talk of spending right? we'll bring you more details as we have them. >>> the tragic death of dallas cowboys player is sparking debate how much control employers can imposed over their workers. over the weekend krou boys linebacker jerry brown was killed in a drunk driving accident with fellow teammate josh brent at the wheel. the cowboys are considering installing a device called safe-key in every player's car. it prevents cars from driving if the driver doesn't pass a visual hand-eye coordination test. the cowboys won't be the first organization to have rules. here at "money" we told you about it. ri health which fired 150 workers for not getting flu shots. the question is, are these kinds of rules fair to employees and are they even legal? here to figure this out is attorney nicole davord. thanks for coming on. >> sure. thanks for having me. melissa: let's start with the ig question, is it legal? they're not on c


other for the negotiations. >> who's going to blink first? >> who's going to blink first? >> the white house is daring republicans to blink. >> obama is daring republicans literally to blink. the joke's on him because i know some republicans who have had their eyelids surgically removed. >> also what caused former indiana senate candidate richard mourdock at first the likely winner in that race to end up losing to joe donnelly? you might well point to this moment from a mourdock/donnelly debate. >> i struggled with it myself for a long time but realized life is a gift from god. even when life begins in the horrible situation of rape it is something god intended to happen. >> mourdock's popularity plummeted after that. now he's trying to pay down campaign debt. guess who's getting blamed for his election loss in the fund raising e-mail? quote, republicans all over the country were forced to accept defeat rather than celebrate victory. in our case we found ourselves caught in the liberal media cross hairs. never has indiana seen a more obvious example of media bias by reporters more inte

makes a terrible mistake by using chemical weapons on their own people. lou: neither the white house or pentagon elaborating on what the cons -- consequences would be, but having russia back them would be a determined outcome made by the promise of president obama in dealing with russia after winning a second term as he remarked to the russian president thinking they were off microphone as they met in south korea back in march. >> after my election, i have more flexibility. >> i understand. i just need permission -- lou: a full report on the disturbing turn of events in syria and the likely price of russian cooperation on syria. another middle east dictator, egyptian leader, morsi, with a concession to the opponents inviting them to hold talks on the crisis. is that enough to appease protesters who plan larger demonstrations tomorrow? we'll be talking with fox news middle east expert while ferris in washington institute fellow eric trager, and president obama back on the campaign trail continuing to successfully dress up his ultimatum on higher taxes as a republican decision rather t


. sdlirchlgts and this just in. the white house tweets out a picture of president obama watching video of david axlerod shaving off his mustache to raise money for epilepsy research. ♪ it's so important to make someone happy ♪ when you give a child a toy, it has to work. ♪ make just one someone happy and when it's a toys for tots child, well, what could be more important? so this year, every hasbro toy donated to toys for tots will be powered by duracell. happy holidays. duracell with duralock. trusted everywhere. i get congested. but now, with zyrtec-d®, i have the proven allergy relief of zyrtec®, plus a powerful decongestant. zyrtec-d® lets me breath freer, so i can love the air. [ male announcer ] zyrtec-d®. behind the pharmacy counter. no prescription needed. >>> the australian radio dj's behind that prank call to the hospital where the duchess of cambridge was being treated last week, well, they broke their silence today. the radio personalities said that they were "heartbroken and gutted over the death of the nurse" who first took their call. they expected to be hung up on and

with president obama at the white house on sunday. alison burns, ktvu channel 2 news. >>> 8:16. in afghanistan. >> , the head of the women's affairs -- the head of the women's affairs was shot to death. the husband of nadia said she was attacked by masked gunmen as she headed to work. this is images from her funeral. she took over the job after the woman killed by the bomb had it. >>> the relationship between the u.s. and partly sunny is getting better but the u.s. still has some major derns, a report says. the report says pakistan is still providing safe haven to insurgents. it also praises pakistan for agreeing to open supply routes into afghanistan. >>> new this morning, a youth volleyball coach in roseville is accused of secretly videotaping an underaged girl and police are now looking for other potential victims. ronald roy buchanan is being held at a placer county jail near sacramento after an underaged girl reported she was allegedly taped while changing clothes for a photo shoot. the 30-year-old coach is a part- time photographer. >>> for the first time hostess brand is acknowledging t

. is that accurate? >> guest: that is accurate, but the fact that president obama, speaker boehner met at the white house sunday, they put out the same statement, they haven't said anything for two days. >> neil: speaker boehner did. he was griping about the president not giving specific on spending. nancy pelosi was saying, you know, boehner is wrong. >> you have to reach to find encouraging news right now. everybody thinks we are going to get together and not let the country go over the fiscal cliff, which, of course, in all common sense and sanity that's what we would do. we have to act. we're on automatic here. you know that. right now i can feel the contrary happening. in both caucuses and the senate, people are beginning to to the inside interest groups so the democrats say don't touch entitlement programs and republicans say i won't support -- >> neil: that's what i'm hearing. driving it further apart. >> yeah, you not going to make it happen that way. there is beginning to be -- there are two conspiracy theories now. one is that the leaders won't mind if the country goes over the cliff beca

, president obama is back up in the white house four more years. [ applause ] how black is that? >> bill: now, some were upset by fox's monologue but not me. he is obviously being satirical. yes he goes into offensive area but that's what is satiriss do. i do not see anything hatedful in foxx's monetary i do not believe jamie foxx wants white people dead. he has latitude because his ancestors were slaves he can speak to that and given more room than someone who does not share that experience. hate speech is very specific. it's dine to marginalize and opponent. business rival or someone else the hater doesn't like. hate speech is a cheap way to retreat. when you think about it labeling someone a bigot, racist, homophobe, whatever is a form of violence. you want on lookers to join you in harming the person you are defaming. that's why we are on this campaign. we will let you know exactly hot offenders are in very vivid terms. and that's the memo. now for the top story tonight. what about this jamie foxx business? joining us from new york our barack and hard place duo monica crowley and alan col


? it may be obama's arrogance. watch this. >> when you talk about the feeling at the white house, there's a palpable difference now compared to 2011, the summer of 2011. they are so much cockier at the white house a year and a half ago. you know, you come to us, we're not going to negotiate. we're not going to keep putting out more proposals. >> sean: my next guest argues that it's time for republicans to stop trying to cut through the president's arrogance, walk away from the negotiating table. i've been saying that on this program. in fact, congressman allen west recently told the great one, mark levin, that it's silly to work with someone that's a marksist socialist ideolog. colonel, i don't remember that you said marksist socialist before. >> when you sit down and look at the policies that have emanated from president obama, his administration, this entire class warfare rhetoric that we continue to hear is definitely a marxist theory, the nationalizing the healthcare industry, the dodd-frank with the financial industry, the automobile industry, what lisa jackson and the epa is doing


, president obama and house speaker john boehner sat down at the white house yesterday. they talked. so let's bring in brianna keilarment she is live in washington. so congress is scheduled to break for the holidays later this week. where do we go from here? how are these talks? >> we don't know. that's the thing. we know they spoke. in fact, it's somewhat remarkable that both the white house and speaker boehner's office put out statements simply saying that the two men had spoken. the lines of communication are open. and they were the same verbatim. that is something you can look at as some progress, perhaps. certainly it is promising may be the better way to put it. there is coordination there. they seem to be talking in good faith, trying to keep, i guess, their cards very close to the vest. and that is something that maybe is seen as promising. again, there is no word on actual progress on the fact that they're closer to a deal. and officially at this point, house republicans are still unwilling to bend to the president's demand that those income tax rates for wealthier americans increa



of supervisors did a resolution. we had the mayor tweeting. there is also an official letter from the white house to acknowledge small business saturday, and hopefully you saw president obama out shopping with his family. and he did personal tweeting. so that was great and very exciting. >> i would like to comment and i want to thank regina, you and everybody in your office for promoting small business saturday. i was out in some of the neighbors and they were very pleased how your office was out there helping promote this. and i know several businesses said that, especially in the noe valley and upper market and costa, everybody is downtown shopping and that saturday they had a definite increase in business. 24th street i was down there and talking to some folks down there and they were saying that was one of their best after-thanksgiving distal saturday and i know on castro it was the same. so thank you to you and your office for promoting it. >> you are welcome. so this year we worked with women impacting public policy and wipp and sf travel came on and the chamber of commerce. so we want


cliff talks. president obama and john boehner met face-to-face at the white house to try to prevent the fiscal cliff. now just 23 days away. we don't have any details on their conversations, but reps for both sides say the lines of communication remain open. at least four republican senators suprt a tax hike on wealthy americans. >> what we have done is spent ourselves into a hole and we're not going to raise taxes and borrow money and get out of it. so will i accept a tax increase as a part of a deal to actually solve our problems? yes. >> president obama wants republicans to agree to the wealthy tax hike before any negotiations about spending cuts begin. >>> just after midnight gay couples living in washington state made history joining in the first legal same-sex marriages in the state. the governor signed the voter approved referendum into law on wednesday. >>> mexican authorities say they have found the wreckage of a small plane believed carrying mexican american singer jenny rivera and six others. the plane had been missing since early this morning. reportedly lost contact wit

if they do. above all, they need to start negotiating as a team with mr. obama and stop making premature concessions for the tv cameras that only make the white house less likely to meet them halfway. is that the net result, dana? >> well, it is a crisis. it's a manmade crisis. it's not like some meteor is headed towards the earth. they set it up this way so there will be these massive tax increases and massive spending cuts, so they do need to -- they have made it to they need to act. the question is do you need an even larger crisis? do you need the economy to be in free fall to get these guys to take some action? unfortunately given the past record, that can't be ruled out. >> yeah. when it comes to cuts, especially on medicare, that whole conversation has to be had. here's what dick durbin said on "meet the press." >> i do believe there should be means testing. those of us with higher income and retirement should pay more. that could be part of the solution. but when you talk about raising the medicare eligibility age there's one key question. what happens to that early retiree. ? wh


. >>> standoff on the fiscal cliff. house speaker boehner meeting with president obama at the white house. but what will it take to get a compromise deal? republican senator john thune will be our guest host for the hour. >> plus starwood hotel ceo frits van paaschen on the effects of the fiscal cliff and avoiding the european recovery model. >> we know big ben. >> parliament. >> the third hour of "squawk box" begins right now. >>> welcome back to "squawk box" here on cnbc. first in business worldwide i'm joe kernen along with becky quick. andrew ross sorkin is off today. we have a big lineup this hour. sitting in andrew's seat our guest host, senator john thune. he is with us for the hour to talk about the fiscal cliff. talk about jobs. and a lot more. we're also going to speak to the president of telemundo media. emilio row mano. we're going to convene an economic summit to tackle america's debt crisis and outline growth scenarios for 2013. in addition to solving our budget problems and the fiscal cliff, we're also going to figure out how it affects the hotel industry with starwood's ho


these. home depot gift cards. give the gift of doing, in-store or online. >> shepard: the white house says president obama believes he can cut a deal with house republicans to keep from all going over the fiscal cliff. the president is refusing to compromise on letting tax cuts expire on incomes of more than $250,000 a year. g.o.p. leaders are calling that a job killer and a deal breaker. of course, if we fall off the fiscal cliff, we'll all die, right? actually, taxes will go up for pretty much everybody and automatic spending cuts kick in on knew year's day. the president and the house speaker met face-to-face just yesterday for the first time since the election, but are they talking about it? no. today an aide said the speaker is willing and still waiting for counteroffer from the president. ed henry is live at the white house. i don't know, ed. a meeting happens and nobody says anything. this could be seen as something more good than bad. >> reporter: exactly. because they didn't come out of the meeting beating each other up and saying i'm never going to sign a deal with the other

should republicans in the white house have exchanged new proposal tsds today. and president obama and boehner have spoken at this time. quote, we sent the white house a counteroffer that would achieve reform to solve our looming debt crisis and create more jobs. that's all we know. dana milbank, they say it's good. they said it will solve our problems. they won't say what it is. explain. >> well, look, we're still in the fairly early stage of posturing here, and nobody can strike a deal until they get closer to it, until their feet are to the fire. >> when do you say the fire begins? >> nobody can make any prediction for sure -- >> try. >> they could hammer this out in three hours if they really wanted to. >> that's right. >> but if they don't wait until the very end of december or even go over the cliff -- >> i think it's 21. i'm going to bet on -- what's your hunch about this, ron reagan? you're here -- i think they're going to try to get it done by christmas just for efficiency's sake and not to scare the horses. that's the thought i have. i may be conservative about this. >> y

. and that requires significant entitlement reform. >> meanwhile, president obama and house speaker john boehner met sunday at the white house. the spokespeople for both men said they agreed not to release details or characterize the meeting. it was their first one-on-one meeting in 18 months as boehner spokesman michael steele says he is still waiting on a counteroffer from the president to last week's republican offer. in michigan today president obama said the house just needs to pass the bill already passed by the senate. >> congress lets middle class taxes go up, economists will tell you that means people will spend nearly $200 billion less than they otherwise would spend. consumer spending is going to go down. all congress needs to do is pass a law that would prevent a tax hike on the first $250,000 of everybody's income. >> president obama still has the american people firmly on his side. this is what the republicans don't get, apparently. 60% support raising taxes on households earning more than $250,000 a year. this is why a republican congress tom cole said once again fellow republicans sh

-wing hypocrites! >> stephanie: newsletter blasts obama for having nbc host despite her visit to the bush white house. [ laughter ] >> stephanie: president obama has met with msnbc host along with other progressives -- was i invited no. can anyone even imagine if fox news had stopped by the bush white house to discuss policy? they would have been rightly outraged. [ wah wah ] >> rush limbaugh sat in george bush senior's box during the convention. >> stephanie: an influential group of conservative radio hosts including laura ingraham. >> imagine if we had down that. [ mocking whining ] >> to the right. >> >> stephanie: the "stephanie miller show" has no information as to whether laura ingraham likes her hair pulled during sex. if she does it's to the right. all right [ inaudible ] go ahead. >> caller: our president is doing so bad, but yet apple wants to move the factory here. >> stephanie: exactly right. unemployment dropped to the lowest in four years. >> caller: yeah, so i mean these guys are all hot wind. they are trying to push the statute of liberty over the cliff, an

are not included, there was tom hartman, allen colmes and a lot of people who the white house left out of that meeting and in terms of who they put up and put out. media put out the story without doing their homework. >> there was a column by george will, bewitched by obama, even jonathan swift who said that promises and pie crusts are made to be broken and marvelled at the limited shelf life of a barack obama's promise of balanced debt reduction plan. is there any media pressure on the white house? >> there's no media pressure on the white house to explain any of this. in watching this and talking about the pr and how the press is covering the pr especially out of the white house democrats. and the republicans don't have a coherent messenger, what i find fascinating is that the press doesn't cover why obama is doing what he's doing and gets to your point, john. there's an assumption that the president doesn't want to go over the fiscal cliff like the republicans don't. and i think that's the wrong assumption. i think the president does want to go over the fiscal cliff and yet, there's

for president obama. he says that the white house is taking a big risk with its my way or the highway negotiations on the fiscal cliff. now you can look at it. >> this president has a chance, as he did in 09 to come in and say i'm going to sit down and we're going to be bipartisan. we are going to put the country first. i'm going to write or he can write a stimulus package and ram it through on red. he guarantees a permanent war, because everybody on the right at every level sooner or later is going to get particular sick of it. martha: is he right? let's talk to brit hume, fox news senior political analyst. good morning to you. is he right about that if the president doesn't do some negotiating, giving in a little bit on this that he's risks a permanent war on capitol hill. >> reporter: i think there will be a permanent war over the issues of taxation and spending regardless of what happens in this immediate negotiation to avoid the so-called fiscal cliff and the reason is this. for a longtime, martha, we were able to increase entitlement benefits, keep taxes relatively low, because


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