How do I know if a prospective manfriend is the type to, um, pull my hair?
December 29, 2006 11:29 PM   Subscribe


The below may be totally inarticulate. I tried and tried, but I kept having that problem where you're trying to describe something you don't have an exact terminology for, so it gets all long-winded and lame. Sorry.

I am embarrassed, even anonymously, but I would appreciate some good advice on the following:

I'm a pretty ladylike, fairly "traditionally female" girl. (Yes, I know someone out there is gearing up to be totally offended by that, but I just wanted a short way to explain that I like crafty hobbies and cooking and babies and cute clothes, and am nurturing and "soft" in how I communicate, and have no interest in sports or automotive repair.)

I've dated. A few serious relationships, all with Really Nice Guys. Really. The kind your mom would be thrilled to see you date. And it turns out that I don't like Really Nice Guys all that much. Which is good, because it helped clarify what I do want. Except, er, now I'm not sure how to get it.

This is probably going to sound exceedingly lame, but I would be quite excited to be in a relationship with a really manly man who is amused and approving when I cook him retro roast-based dinners, and who agrees with me that our interests do not have to overlap or match in all areas, and that men and women are mysterious to each other, and that that's kind of nice.

And then perhaps he could take me to bed and be quite forceful and pull my hair and demand that I call him inappropriate things.

Etcetera. I would also largely be okay with him being in charge in most other areas of our shared life, except - omg I know - your more as-defined-by-me female things, like food and fabulous outfits I bought at Banana Republic on sale.

Now, I know that pretty much sounds like I'm submissive, looking for a dominant guy. But I would not say that it's a BDSM-based relationship that I'm looking for. When this started to occur to me, I read books and did research, and I think... no. I could certainly be wrong, but the sort of ritualized nature of BDSM just fails to appeal. Also, I just cannot deal with the leather pants. SORRY.

Further: I'm pretty sociable and friendly, but men who are very attractive to me in this particular way - that is, they seem sort of stern, yet prepared-to-be-amused, and kind of trustworthy in that vaguely scary, manly way, your kind of obvious power-imbalance objects of attention - tend to make me blush and look at the floor, which mildly concerns me. Even if I ended up dating the guy, the blushing-and-looking-at-the-floor false advertising might lead him to expect other things. He'd probably be horrified to discover that I'm actually kind of funny and sarcastic and am kind of slutty in bed. (omg.)

Some more things:

1) Yes, I know everyone's supposed to be open and communicate about ones sexual needs, but I don't know if you've ever had a conversation where you nervously asked your Very Nice Boyfriend to pull your hair? Oh... it's terrible. I cannot recommend it. And even when he does pull your hair, it's sort of awful for everyone. Not to mention the absolute reverse of sexy. So no more of that.

2) I'm not forward. I don't talk to men I'm not in a relationship with about sex. I'm not ever going to ask a guy I don't know if he's the hair-pulling type. (...well, maybe if I were hugely drunk. But that's really not a dating strategy I'm looking to develop, I don't think.)

3) I'm monogamous. That's not on the table. I'm not going to have one Really Nice Boyfriend and one who pushes me into walls but is otherwise boring. Sorry.

SO. I'm sorry that got so long. To recap, this is my question: what, if anything, can you recommend for a young lady who's interested in meeting a guy who might pull her hair, etcetera? Where might she meet someone like this? How would she know? Is there a delicate, polite way to make this clear? Is there a hanky code of some kind I don't know about?!?

Thanks, everyone. Questions, clarification, comments, I can be reached at tartsweet@gmail.com.
posted by anonymous to Human Relations (43 answers total) 111 users marked this as a favorite
Isn't this what internet dating sites thrive on?
posted by liquorice at 11:41 PM on December 29, 2006

You are best-of-craigslist material. Count another vote for Internet dating sites.
posted by gmarceau at 12:15 AM on December 30, 2006 [3 favorites]

A man who notices you blushing and looking at the floor, and follows it up gently but kind of insistently, is the goal. You have the tools you need. A dominant will notice that, and if he's interested he will start some subtle play with you. If you find yourself following his suggestions: "would you brush your hair back so I can see both your eyes?" then the game's afoot. Allow him to take control as far as you are able. At the dinner table, he might offer you a bite of what he's having. Open your mouth, take it -from his fork-. Let him lead you and show you will follow.
posted by jet_silver at 12:18 AM on December 30, 2006 [3 favorites]

Please date me. Kthx.
No, really.

Your post absolutely cracked me up, and was perfectly articulated, I thought.


That was the greatest line, in context, I've read on the internets in some time.

I don't have any advice beyond that, though, mostly because I'm too enamored to offer any.
posted by disillusioned at 12:35 AM on December 30, 2006 [3 favorites]

Well, if you're pretty sure that you're not into the BDSM stuff and just like having your hair pulled... pull his hair. Seriously. If left to my own devices, I'm pretty ... gentle during sex. However, women that don't like that pretty much let me know by doing to me what they want done to them--pinching, slapping, pulling, shoving, biting, hitting me with things, whatever. I react in kind and enjoy it as much as the other--I'm just too much of a "gentleman" to initiate rough stuff unless I'm getting hints or requests.

Now, if you're only interested in finding out if a guy's into that prior to fucking him, you're out of luck unless you ask or you're good at flirting. You can communicate anything with flirtiing if you know how.

With the hair thing, I'd find a way to play it along the lines of boys pulling the hair of girls they like when they're young. If you can work that into conversation in a way that indicates you find it interesting or sexy or romantic, even, and you're with a guy who's moderatly confident and good at flirting, I expect he'd run with it and you'd respond in kind that he got your message.

If your hair is long enough, put it into a ponytail or pigtails and hope he comments on it. If he does, make a comment about how they're good handles, or whatever way you're comfortable phrasing it.

Unlike the others, I say online dating is fine, however I'd avoid CL as the system is just too open in my book (especially given the recent nonsense on there). A pay site works as a great filter and is pretty cheap, all things considered. The problem is that many people use those sites just for hookups and it sounds like you're looking for a steady. One benefit of them is that you can post your ad in "relationships" or "dating" sections (as opposed to hookups or intimate) and use the anonymity to flat out ask in email if they'd be into it. If they're not, you won't meet them anyway and it's not nearly as embarassing as finding out no face to face. If they are into it, it's nothing to be embarassed about.
posted by dobbs at 12:36 AM on December 30, 2006

As the Duke Spirit says, "Girls tie their hair back so you can grab them from the woods." There's a lot of guys who seem really polite, nice, and whatnot, and at some point, they get the predatory gleam in their eye, and you find yourself bent over the arm of your sofa, getting a few whaps. Don't discount the well-mannered sort: gentleman in public, bastard in the bedroom.

Now, this is dangerous, not particularly PC, and comes with all kinds of cautions, but if you gently tease the right kind of guy, he will take charge eventually. Could be great, could be scary/bad. That's the kind of chances you take when you don't want to spell things out and do the painfully elaborate naughty playtime contract. The price you pay for spontaneity is the chance that things could get out of hand.

Don't torment some guy if you can't envision him flushed, nostrils flared, and his thumb pressing painfully into your shoulder as he pushes you down onto your already-buckling knees. A lot of men are more take-charge than you might think, so your best bet is to take a nice guy and just ... drive him out of his mind. Maybe rent Secretary at some point so he knows you're not freaked out about the concept. Just so long as you are comfortable with the idea that you could wind up sore from him doing rude things to you, tease him until he shakes.
posted by adipocere at 1:04 AM on December 30, 2006 [3 favorites]

I realize this may not actually help you find one...
but there are lots guys out there who are very Manly and into pulling your hair and sports and crashing cars and the like but are actually very nice guys on the inside and to their loved ones.
If you talk to some (if you can manage to talk to some) testosterone filled, pull your hair kind of guys, you may find that they are open to loving relationships. They want to love and snuggle, believe it or not. But they also need their guy time to hang out with the guys and talk about hockey fights.

I don't think that you need to go to an internet dating site. Just open your horizons a bit. Blush and smile and try to communicate with one of these men. I am sure they would be grateful to talk with an intelligent caring female. Do be wary of the assholes though.
posted by bobobox at 1:07 AM on December 30, 2006

Um, just get out there and date more? Hair pulling isn't some sort of obscure sexual fetish that ordinary people are bewildered and possibly repulsed by, like plushies or latex or what-have-you. You need a guy that is able to be assertive (I think most are, deep down) and you need to let him know, as appropriate, that you enjoy being pushed around a little. (I like the idea of playfully pushing him around a little to give him the hint, and phrases like "You can do whatever you want to me. Really." are about the hottest thing a guy will ever hear.) Let him decide exactly how he's going to push you around, have fun, and I bet it'll be enjoyable for both of you.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that some degree of dom/sub is so fundamental to human relationships that everyone is familiar with it and able to participate if they feel comfortable with it. It's not like you need to filter dating sites for a specific criteria (in fact, dating sites are more likely to be filled with exactly the opposite of what you're looking for), you just need to get out there and approach assertive men.

You should really try number two on your list there. Go up to guys, poke them, and straight-out flirtatiously ask "Hey, do you like pulling girls' hair?" As a girl, you have an incredible advantage here, and being a little assertive and interested yourself is also almost universally sexy. If you hit it off, you can work out your dom/sub dynamics later; right now, you're looking for someone willing to have fun and play along. If you get choked up around the guys you're really attracted to, start lower. Ask random guys that you're not really interested in, just to see how they respond. Experiment. You have nothing to lose by striking up playful conversation, and you can always blow the guy off later.

Or, you know, just find the guy all the girls are fawning over, act like a slut in front of him, and he'll let you know if he's interested.

But to have a good long-term relationship, you do need more in common than hot sex.
posted by trevyn at 2:22 AM on December 30, 2006

Alright, now that I'm past the initial attraction to your post, let's try some real advice:

A friend of mine was explaining that she was having a similar problem. Her new throw isn't as rough as she likes things, and while she's not looking for a beating or anything, some hair pulling and spanking is definitely in order.

She said that new boy is a bit timid and she swears he's dying to really give her a good swat, but instead just comes out with a cheeky (heh) pat and a devilish grin.

I told her some basic tenants:
You can always just pin him down and whisper something like "I really like it rough, so don't hold back" to him.

Tell him you want him to spank you... (pause for effect) fucking HARD.
Guys LOVE getting the go-ahead like that.
Seriously, top top marks to girls who greenlight stuff like that and demand it midway through.

If he's so timid, he likely won't take it too far, but he'll definitely be encouraged to put his back into it. And if he does take things a bit too far, you set up a safety word, and all is well.

If he doesn't respond to a brazen, heat-of-the-moment go-ahead, or a few, then he probably won't like you doing the same. Mix it in a little. Girl biting on ear/purring/growling/scratching = signal to turn it up a notch and be a bit more rough. If a guy won't respond to that naturally, then it's going to take some more work, and probably be so much more stilted and awkward.

The reality is that it should come out of passion. It should be something you gasp into his ear as he's taking you from behind, having pulled him close. And it should be something he instantly responds to, in the moment. You shouldn't have to form an action committee issue an initiative and have an awkward conversation. It should just work, right then.

Try it.

And please email me. I really loved how you wrote this, for some reason. It embodied what you were trying to describe *perfectly*. :-)

(In the end, you can always link a potential straight to this post and say "that's me." Should do the trick.)
posted by disillusioned at 2:56 AM on December 30, 2006 [3 favorites]

There's some guys who have a slight air of danger 'under the covers' so to speak ... it just doesn't come out at first, because we are nice guys. Of course, this makes it hard for you to tell ... but we'll get there in a sec.

I'm this way, most of my friends are this way. We're dominant guys, although we might not come off that way at first... we're not partyers, we don't generally go to clubs (once or twice every few months?) And we're nerds.

Perfectly worded question, by the way. You got your point across very well.

Ok, so guidelines on how to recognize and snare one of these guys? The big difference between the ones who push you into walls and the ones who but otherwise make sucky boyfriend material, and the ones who are dominant enough to push you into walls, pull your hair, make you dress up in a plaid miniskirt and thighhighs and bend you over a couch, etc... the latter, well, we have the manners to not tell you that's what we'd like to do to you first off. There's a huge difference between "being shy" and "having a filter" (and by filter I mean not saying everything that comes into a guy's head. A guy's head can be a pretty scary place. A guy with no filter makes the world a scary place, and not in a get-your-panties-wet kinda way.)

The best way by far to really get a guy to show himself is to get a guy alone ... at a party, at a bar, go find somewhere where you can talk. Out on the porch or front stoop or a corner that's a bit quieter at a party, or if the bar/club has somewhere that's easier to talk. So yes, you might have to make the first move in that.

And that's a good point -- to really get what you want, you have to show us you want it. (Yeah, the manners thing again.) You can do that via actions as well as words, but you're correct in that guys might misinterpret the blushing and whatnot. Being good in the bedroom is usually associated with self-confidence -- girls with loads of it are good, girls who aren't comfortable with what they do in the bedroom aren't, and I've had enough of *those* to know what I don't want. So show a little spunk.

Summary: You're dating pantywaists. Don't do that. Date guys who are a little scary. It's not hard to get them, just get to know them and get comfortable with them.
posted by SpecialK at 3:34 AM on December 30, 2006 [1 favorite]

This is the website you are looking for:

posted by By The Grace of God at 5:02 AM on December 30, 2006 [1 favorite]

Another URL for you:


A friend forwarded me that a while back, and, weird as it was, I had to agree that the guy behind it was probably getting lots of action, so to speak.

It's not that weird, but I suspect too openly advertising the inclination would attract weirdos.

I concur with "Um, just get out there and date more?" and "You're dating pantywaists."
posted by kmennie at 6:12 AM on December 30, 2006

Just tell him. Slip it into conversation somewhere that forceful men do it for you *bat eyelashes*. If you want, get a few glasses of wine into both of you, watch, say, Secretary, with appropriate nods and sighs at the right places.

Hell, you could even just steer him to this post. It's beautifully written and very articulate.
posted by Jilder at 6:15 AM on December 30, 2006

And please email me.

Dude, her email address is in the post--if you didn't take the initiative to email her than you don't meet the criteria of her post. ;)
posted by dobbs at 6:16 AM on December 30, 2006 [2 favorites]


Lacks initiative, and he said "please".
posted by Snerd at 6:27 AM on December 30, 2006 [1 favorite]

Instead of looking for guys who align themselves with a particular alterative lifestyle, maybe you ought to find yourself a good old fashioned republican conservative? That might jibe better with your partiality to Banana Republic and roast-based dinners.
posted by bingo at 7:06 AM on December 30, 2006 [2 favorites]

Yeah, I agree with bingo. Date Republicans.
posted by amber_dale at 7:15 AM on December 30, 2006 [1 favorite]

I agree with disillusioned (any many others here).

It sounds like the hard part for you is bringing up the topic, so when you have a guy with whom you think you'd like to sexy-time!!! soon, tell him you'd like to set up a safe-word. Quickly qualify it by saying that you're not into any heavy stuff, but "it's best to be safe." Say it meekly so that he gets the impression that it's not you who should be the dominant one.

Having a safe-word will make him comfortable with rougher play since you have an unambiguous way of telling him that he's going too far -- that he shouldn't hold back for the reason that he doesn't know where is safe to stop.

And, come back here to tell us how it goes.
posted by cmiller at 7:32 AM on December 30, 2006

Your problem, anonymous, is that you're a nineteenth-century gal stuck in the twenty-first century (not a putdown at all, because I could be described as a nineteenth-century guy stuck in the twenty-first century); in my grandparents' day you would have been (and been seen as) perfectly normal and you could have expected men to treat you the way you want to be treated, in my parents' day you wouldn't have had any trouble finding such men, but now you have to work a little, not because such men don't exist but because they're culturally disfavored—we're all supposed to be nice polite unisex types, at least in White Bourgeois America. But don't feel weird or abashed about wanting what you want, and don't feel like you "should" be dating Really Nice Guys your momma would approve of. Learn where the manly men who turn you on hang out, and bat your eyes around them. You'll wind up satisfied and happy, and if anyone tries to tell you you're unenlightened or a traitor to your sex or whatever, just smile a fulfilled smile and ignore them. (And I agree with disillusioned that your post was very expressive; I get a real sense of you as a person, and can't help liking you and wishing you happiness.)

Two notes. 1) Stop focusing on the hair, people! The "pull my hair" thing does not indicate a fetish, it's short for the whole way she wants to be treated. Synecdoche, people, synecdoche! 2) This is not about politics, ferchrissakes—there are plenty of nice, polite Republicans, and plenty of manly-man Democrats.
posted by languagehat at 7:35 AM on December 30, 2006 [5 favorites]

The sort of men who will pull yr hair and try to dominate you are exactly the sort who don't need to be wooed or sought. All you have to do is say "I'm here! Pull me!" and they'll move on you. In fact, the greater the interest you have to show before a guy'll be brave enough to move on you, the less macho they'll turn out to be.

So while you do have to manage a bit more than blushing and looking at the floor, you don't have to make it a lot more. Just take one of these guys, and hold eye contact for a second or two longer than necessary. Do that three or four times during the evening, and if he's the proto-alpha type you want, he'll crack on.
posted by bonaldi at 7:35 AM on December 30, 2006

On non-preview: 3) She is not into S&M! "Safe words"?? Jesus, are people around here really so immersed in geek culture they can't imagine a traditional male-female relationship as anything but a bondage dungeon?
posted by languagehat at 7:36 AM on December 30, 2006 [5 favorites]



Nooooooo. Please do not do this.


As long as you won't be surprised if he drops trou and squeezes out a steamer on your chest.


And now, a bunch of thoughts jumbled together in no structure :

This is just not a subject you can introduce upon first meeting someone, unless you want it to be one of the fundamental things the relationship is built on. And you can never tell who likes to be dominant in bed. Some of the most passive, polite, people in every other way, enjoy being dominant in bed because they are so gentle in every other way, and the bedroom can be a fun escape/release from that role. I know you said you want a guy who takes control in other aspects of the relationship as well, so this type of guy probably wouldn't suit you - but I just wanted to emphasize that you can neverrrrr tell what anyone is like in bed until you go to bed with them. Also, people lie about what they like. And some guys have never thought about hair pulling, but if encouraged, would absolutely love it and get into it. If you can't actually talk about it , I agree that pulling his hair first is a great signal that you're into that kind of thing. Try starting things like this , and if he "fights back", escelate it to a level you're comfortable with and then "let him win". Never say "you can do anything to me", unless you really mean it. If he does get into it and takes it too far, you can just say "too hard", etc, but set the limit the first time if possible, so he knows where the line is.

I agree that renting Secretary is a fabulous idea that whould hereby become the standard way of introducing this diea for people who are too skurred to bring it up verbally. Or you can ask him, "have you ever seen Secretary?" If he hasn't, he probably won't really know what it's all about and you'll be safe - if he has, and replies enthusiastically, you can act excited and tell him how much you loved it too, etc. This would be much preferred to approaching randoms in public and asking them how they like to fuck without actually intending to fuck them.
posted by white light at 7:45 AM on December 30, 2006

After years of just reading, this question got me to register.

Most of the answers above miss the point in a big way, I think. She isn't looking for a "dom" who will provide kinky sex and feed her off a fork. She is looking for a "traditionally" or "stereotypically" masculine guy, who has lots of self-confidence, and shares her ideas about gender identity, while simultaneously respecting and caring for her. The bedroom stuff follows from the whole lifestyle, not the other way around.

The good news is that there are a lot of guys out there like that, and they are as interested in you as you are in them. (And, unless you are looking for a really rough-around-the-edges guy, they will be perfectly presentable to your mother --- "traditional" masculinity cleans up real well.)

So how do you find them? I guess dating sites are possible, but the answers at the top are kind of an indication of what you might find there. I'd suggest going out and doing the sorts of things that put you in contact with these kinds of guys. You might be the only woman there, but that's ok --- you want a man who is comfortable doing "man" things (defined very broadly --- maybe racing motorcycles? investment banking? things with a very "male" culture associated with them), not a guy who hangs out at the local feminist bookstore. (But, and here is the fun contradiction, you want that guy, who is happy and comfortable with his maleness, to also feel comfortable in that feminist bookstore. You aren't looking for a pig or an abuser or an insensitive dolt.)

I don't think you should be hair pulling, or even talking about hair pulling. You are trying to assess attitude -- how comfortable is he in his masculinity, and with your femininity? -- not specific sexual practices. So you need to go out and talk to lots of men, and be ruthless in only following up with the confident ones who make you weak at the knees.
posted by Forktine at 8:01 AM on December 30, 2006 [5 favorites]

I hate to say it, but finding a guy who's willing to toss you around a bit in the sack isn't something you can do at a party, or a club or a bar. The best advice is simply to date more, or at least fuck more. If the rough sex is priority number one, then fuck around a bit until you find a guy who embodies the whole masculine-lifestyle, traditional-gender-roles schtick. If the masculine-lifestyle, traditional-gender-roles schtick is priority number one, then date a lot until you find a guy who's willing to pull your hair, slap your ass and call you a filthy whore while he (bends you over the couch|holds your ankles up by the headboards|ejaculates on you|insert rough-sex-action here).

This is not something you can discern from a guy's appearance or initial reaction to you--unless you are at an online dating service, etc--so the only real way to find a guy like this is experimentation.

Not to put words in your mouth, but from your post it sounds like finding a guy who's willing to have rough sex is more important to you than finding a guy who's willing to embody traditional gender roles with you. (This judging from your final points, all of which concern sex. Also, one of your final points which essentially says "I would love to have a nice-guy boyfriend and a lover who fucks me like I want to be fucked. But I'm monogamous." If you really didn't want a nice-guy boyfriend at all, I can't imagine why you would have mentioned this...) Assuming I'm not wrong--which is entirely possible--perhaps you should realize that there are lots of nice, take-home-to-your-mother guys who are respectful, caring and kind, but who love more than anything to be told "SPANK ME" or "CUM ON MY FACE, NOW" and are perfectly willing and even excited to do so.

Of course, maybe that last part is just me hoping I fit the bill...?
posted by jckll at 8:34 AM on December 30, 2006

If you want to attract men who are into "housewifey" and "feminine" and all that, start acting housewifey and feminine in public.

Those roast-based dinners you want to be cooking? Just go ahead and cook one. Invite all your friends. Make cocktails, wear an apron, play the old-fashioned gracious hostess. Some of the men in attendance will probably be appalled, some won't care either way, but a few may start paying closer attention.

That's just an example, but I'm sure you can think of others. Ask a guy friend to fix your car and offer him fresh-baked cookies in gratitude. Talk with your female friends about the higher mysteries like makeup and handbags, but be sure to compliment one of the guys if his haircut makes him look important or dignified. You know — act out the role you want to play. Sooner or later, some friend-of-a-friend guy will see you in that role and realize it's what he's been looking for all his life.
posted by nebulawindphone at 8:45 AM on December 30, 2006 [4 favorites]


And again, at least as I read the question, this misses the point. She is not looking for a guy who needs to be told to do those things and is "willing" to comply, she is looking for a man who (in a loving way) takes charge and does those things.

Maybe another way to think about this is as "performance." You want to perform a specific type of femininity, and you are interested in a man who performs a specific type of masculinity. One option is to train a nice guy to take on that role -- to learn to pull your hair, and to fix the car while you make roast beef. The guys above who are saying "please email me" are probably willing to be trained, if you want to go that route. I'm suggesting that instead you look for men who are already performing this sort of masculinity (and what you will be hoping is that it carries over into the bedroom --- hardly a given considering the stereotypical imagery of powerful men wanting to be spanked...). But to do that you have to get out there and find them, where they are
posted by Forktine at 8:48 AM on December 30, 2006 [3 favorites]

Yeah, finding guys like this isn't difficult. It's hard to avoid the Really Nice Guys these days -- they're absolutely everywhere -- but there's still more than a few real men out there. Just learn to look for what you want and avoid what you don't want. I think the strongest indicator of somebody's physicality in bed is easily his atheletic prowess. Men who are very athletic, who are comfortable with their bodies, who know how to move, who aren't afraid of some rough contact and have a refined sense of aggression, and who generally take pride in their body and exercise will often instinctively treat sex like another sport, a game to be won with an opponent to be dominated. Definitely if you're looking for somebody to pin you down or hold you so tight it's difficult to breathe you're looking for a man who's physically strong and a tad violent, not a skinny nerd who isn't much stronger than you are. You probably don't want a dumb jock so make sure he can find Frankfurt on the map. If you want somebody old fashioned (though, really, old fashioned guys are boring once the novelty wears off) look for a guy who's not from the big city and isn't excessively WASP and doesn't like rap music though he can dig 70s rock. Look in gyms which have a strong weightlifting focus, midscale bars (particularly sports bars), churches, and organized sporting clubs for youths.
posted by nixerman at 8:50 AM on December 30, 2006 [3 favorites]

I can't offer more than what everyone else here has already said, but I would like to say that you sound absolutely charming.

And if you have a twin brother with the same attitude as you, my email is...
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 9:40 AM on December 30, 2006

I think you'll find one by dating (not necessarily sleeping around) more, too. nixerman's description sounds right to me. Someone you occasionally argue with (not to an extreme, just someone who isn't afraid to disagree) might be a clue. I think you'll learn to recognize who could possibly be in this category before you go to bed with them based on this type of description. I'm guessing this type of guy might seem a little more horny than a typical nice guy. I also wouldn't be afraid to tell them what you want, although I wouldn't mention it at the dinner table -- I'd save it for the heat of the moment. But you could work in some terrible four-letter word so your polite exterior isn't the only image they have of you!

Also, don't worry if you find someone that seems like he could be this guy, in nixerman's description -- it might take a little while to train them.
posted by theredpen at 9:40 AM on December 30, 2006

If you take nebulawindphone's advice about the dinner party, wear a long skirt and thong/no underwear underneath. Remind yourself of what you want out of a man!

If you've ever watched a British TV show called "The IT Crowd", there is a nice guy who posits the theory that "women love bastards." The truth of the matter is that many guys of Generation X and Y have been raised by strong, feminist Boomer Moms and would never ever dream of hitting a girl even if she hits him first. There are unfortunately some very violent exceptions, but you aren't looking for those guys. You are looking for the Middle Way: a guy who will give it to you pleasantly rough, tell you what kinds of fantasies he wants you starring in,

You have explicitly said you don't want a BDSM relationship, and that is ok. But you need to be aware that BDSM is more than, in the immortal words of Moon Unit Zappa "Can you see me in a leather teddy? Beat me! Beat Me! Furr Shurr!" You appear to want a dominant man without wanting an abusive man or a full on Master. That's ok, but you need to be aware that you are most likely to find the man you are looking for realizing that he may consider himself a Dom.

Good Luck! I'm rooting for you.
posted by ilsa at 10:03 AM on December 30, 2006

Move to the south. I'm actually quite serious.

You want a man, and a man who treats you like a woman.

That isn't profanity or source of embarrassment in Dixie. You're not going to loose the respect of all your female friendbase here just because you like to pretty up and take care of your man.

It's more or less expected here, sweetheart, so take those shoes off, finish dinner, and I'll show you how much I appreciate it afterwards.

Like Rhett Butler said, you need to be kissed hard, and often, by someone who knows how.
posted by Ynoxas at 10:04 AM on December 30, 2006 [9 favorites]


That's throwing away the best way to get what you want.
posted by Ironmouth at 10:10 AM on December 30, 2006

You know, I've been thinking about this all day. And I think some of the recent posters are hitting the nail on the head now.

I had a friend who wanted to be a 1940's naughty nurse sex object. So she wore clompy heels and bright red lipstick and a slightly torpedo-ish bra and put her hair up every day. She didn't overdo it--she just provided the visual clues. And the men came FLOCKING. (And plenty of women too. Heh.) She got EXACTLY what she was trolling for.

When gay dudes dress like lumberjacks, they're saying something. When Britney wears a skirt without panties, she's saying something. (Something gross.) But before I get off track here:

You need to be living out your visual clues. You need to be dressing like Suzy Homemaker With An Edge. You need to have exactly the right shoes that say "I'm an angel and a princess and I like to please a man!"

This is all very different than entering into the whole bd/sm world, which I too find off-putting.

The point being--you know what you're about. Show it!

(Now I have to go shopping and figure out how to express what I'm about better, because I'm clearly sending the wrong messages myself. Whoops.)

Anyway, you're great. I second the request for you to send your gay brothers and cousins my way.
posted by RJ Reynolds at 10:48 AM on December 30, 2006 [15 favorites]

I've always been pretty 'vanilla' in bed. That is to say, plain. Boring. Gentle, Sleepless in Seattle-esk 'love making'. I'd abhor even calling the act 'fucking'. Ever.
That said, I just met a girl a month ago to whom I've fallen madly in love with and she's waaaaaaaaay not vanilla. I didn't find this out until recently, and I found it out because she very slowly, very gently started asking me for things and/or doing things to me that I could tell she wanted done back to her. Know what? It's opened a pandoras box of fantastic, dirty, rough, possibly illegal in five states kind of sex. So my suggestion would be to just kind of.... lead the boys there. Bite them or pull their hair. Ask them to do the same in the heat of the moment. If they do it wrong, nicely tell them how to do it right. I would never pretend to be some sort of uber-lover, but I know that, with the right kind of girl who'll be open with what she likes and dislikes, I can be an uber-lover to her.
posted by Bageena at 11:04 AM on December 30, 2006 [1 favorite]

You've said that you're not forward, but honesty and communication are essential in a solid relationship, especially when it comes to sex. I wouldn't count myself as particularly forward, but when I found a relationship that I was exceedingly comfortable in, I asked him to pull my hair, told him I wanted to be held down. And he loves doing it - even though he's not the type that would have wanted to do it if I had not asked. Sometimes he'll even grab my pony tail when we're out with friends - it's a nice gesture of what's to come when we get home.

So my suggestion - find the man and relationship and then approach this issue, when the relationship reaches the 'what do you like' phase in the bedroom. I would venture to say that he would do it if he's seriously interested in you and keeping you happy.
posted by youngergirl44 at 11:20 AM on December 30, 2006 [1 favorite]

Oh anonymous, you and I are so alike, it's scary. I have found that (and perhaps I've just been lucky), it's not the nice-take-home-to-mom guys, nor is it the treat-you-like-dirt-in-and-out-of-the-bedroom guys, but it's the socially awkward guys who have it going on in all the right places. These are the guys who won't approach you at the party not because they're shy, but because they have no idea how. You'll have to do a little of the work at first, but look for the guy at the edge of the crowd- the one who looks like he wants to join the crowd and have fun but isn't quite sure how. These guys tend to have limited bedroom experience, but because of that, they have lots of fantasies. You'll have to be patient until they understand that it's ok to be dominant, but it will be worth it. All of their ideas on how relationships work will have come from TV and the reason they’re socially awkward are because TV is not real life. They also tend to have a lot of dominant fantasies, but again, not so much with the real life. So they stay on the fringe of the crowd. Once he finds out that you are Suzy Homemaker out of the bedroom, and Submissive Suzy in the bedroom, he will drop to his knees and thank his deity of choice that you came into his life. Ok, how to find them? I found my guy through friends- he was a friend of a friend who was the guy at the edge of the party. I thought that was intriguing and went to talk to him. Best thing I ever did. But if that’s been tried and done, let your friends know you’re looking. Be open to being set up with someone who doesn’t meet your standards for how someone should look- my guy doesn’t look like paper towel spokesmodel, but he’s everything I want in a man anyway. If your friends know you’re Suzy Homemaker, then they will know that you are looking for someone who wants Suzy Homemaker. If you go the internet dating route, put in your profile that you like cooking and crafting and shopping. These are “girly” traits and will attract a man who is looking for a “girly” girl. If you can, find out if the guy’s mom worked or stayed at home when he was growing up- if he had a stay-at-home mom, it’s more likely he will be comfortable with traditional male/female roles. And don’t give up. I dated lots of guys who were almost right, but not quite until I found the one who would treat me like a queen outside of the bedroom and a slut in it. They are out there, I promise!
posted by dogmom at 11:47 AM on December 30, 2006 [4 favorites]

Having a copy of Secretary on your shelf might say more than having to rent it. ;) But seriously, this is exactly the sort of compatibility that online dating sites are meant to uncover.

I've been impressed with OkCupid's matching system, as most of the questions are user-written and can easily tease such details out of people who didn't even think of themselves as "the type". Go play.
posted by Myself at 12:10 PM on December 30, 2006

I didn't read any of what was posted above. I just want to say that you are TOTALLY NORMAL - AND SHOULD JUST GO FOR IT. Hand the guy you're hair, etc. Be teasing, he'll probably love it. Just basically ask him "Can I be dirty with you?"
posted by xammerboy at 12:26 PM on December 30, 2006

The phrase my girlfriend uses for this is:

"A man who's got a little bit of throw-down."

They're really everywhere. They come in all shapes and sizes. Look for someone with an active mind, some passions he's pursuing, something like a hobby or an art or just something he's really into doing (and not in an entirely cerebral, geeky way, like collecting comics).

"Nice" isn't all it's cracked up to be. I'll take integrity, respect, and kindness any day, but "nice" isn't necessarily the same thing. "Nice" says to me: diplomatic, amenable, easy to get along with. Those are all fine qualities but there are many good men in the world who are not Fred Rodgers.
posted by scarabic at 12:38 PM on December 30, 2006 [1 favorite]

I nth the votes to initiate what you want in bed. I was another plain, vanilla sex kinda gal and when my gf started slowly introducing me to a bit ahh rougher type play....Well, let's just say I even surprise her with things I want these days!
posted by CwgrlUp at 1:10 PM on December 30, 2006


Oh, no. Nooooooooo. I'm going to quote without hunting down the source here--"'Anything' doesn't mean anything you can think of; it means anything I can think of." Plus, it gives him no idea of what you'd actually be into. Since you did research, you're probably aware there's a huge spectrum there.
posted by sleeplessunderwater at 6:40 PM on December 30, 2006

I've taken to emailing you, as well, since I doubt you'd check an anon-only-box past the first day.
posted by disillusioned at 6:48 PM on December 30, 2006

It should be simple.

`I'd love it if you pulled my hair'
`no no, harder'

Then you moan in ecstasy. Any guy running from that.. well, I can't personally imagine it. I like giving pleasure, and anything that simple which works, well it's immediately stored in the `things to do in bed' file in my brain.
posted by tomble at 11:31 PM on December 31, 2006 [2 favorites]

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