

To think that SAHP's being called morally pernicious is jugely judgemental?

(76 Posts)
flaminhoopsaloolah Sat 06-Apr-13 10:57:50

Not trying to start a bun-fight (though it is AIBU) but is it ok for working parents to point the finger at SAHP's choices and question their morals?

janey68 Sat 06-Apr-13 13:05:56


currentbuns Sat 06-Apr-13 13:08:59

Pointless thread.

flaminhoopsaloolah Sat 06-Apr-13 13:13:11

Janey I can assure you that that has indeed been said to me, I'm not the kind of person who just likes to go around starting fights for the fun of it - doesn't sound like much fun to me at all.

I'd just never come across judgements like that - ever - amongst all my friends who work/don't work and who socialise together.

I was just looking for others opinions - but thank you for suggesting I'm stupid.

Current, sorry you think my wondering was pointless. I didn't think it was.

janey68 Sat 06-Apr-13 13:19:51

Well if you have never come across that view before, surely that fact in itself tells you it's not a commonly held opinion....

flaminhoopsaloolah Sat 06-Apr-13 13:24:26

Not necessarily - I thought to myself that that might be the case....or maybe I lead too sheltered a life - it's not like I have a huge circle of acquaintances and many of my friends are from a different culture. The friends I have in the UK are an extremely small circle. So, with this in mind, I thought I'd ask the question to a wider sample of the population.

I don't see what is wrong with that.

FanjoForTheMammaries Sat 06-Apr-13 13:58:09

Morally pernicious=mick phillpott

SAHM= someone who has kids and doesn't work.

ouryve Sat 06-Apr-13 14:01:44


Goldenbear Sat 06-Apr-13 14:05:22

Another SAH thread.

No it is not morally pernicious. My SAH role has not being prescribed by my DP, it was MY 'choice' and goes someway to equalising the status of that role in my personal set up. Equally, my role is more concerned with the development of my children than with domestic drudgery- again demonstrating to my DC an equality in the roles.

At a broader level I don't want to have to forgo the personal choices described above to reduce inequalities within society. Any society that judges me as morally pernicious for not making huge personal sacrifices personally, is one that is just as oppressive to women as a patriarchal one that allows men to prescribe a woman's role in the home. I don't want to achieve financial independence and career security by emulating men, I want to find a new way.

maddening Sat 06-Apr-13 14:05:59

how do you know this person? How did the conversation come about? I agree more context is needed.

also I don't think this is a widely held view and it depends on how the conversation came about as to whether your friend was unreasonable - they can hold whatever view they like but may or may not bu depending on how this was expressed and in what context.

CheCazzo Sat 06-Apr-13 14:22:29

I've met thousands of people and I have some wonderful memories Oh no, wait, slipped into Michael Parkinson there for a minute. Where was I? Oh yes. I've been alive for at least 300 years and I've heard plenty of shite in my time, but "morally pernicious" has gone right to the top of the list. It doesn't even mean anything does it? Pernicious is an adjective which does not lend itself to being tagged onto an adverb.
Did we find out yet who said it? I lost the will to live some time back.
I agree with whoever said this is goady.

Roseformeplease England Sat 06-Apr-13 14:33:25

I am getting a bit fed up of threads being started, perhaps (and I say perhaps, deliberately) in all innocence,looking for opinions. What then happens is people pile in with a sort of, "Here we go again.." The implication being that this subject has been done to death.

People, myself included, may not have had this debate before because it is not something they have been faced with. They may also be relatively new to Mumsnet and so are not aware of the preponderance of these threads. Until I found this site I was unaware of the levels of anger about things such as SAHM, parent and child spaces, party invitations or disabled v pushchairs on buses. I have learned a lot. However, someone is allowed to start a thread and, if you don't like it, or the subject bores you, then step away from the thread.

seeker Sat 06-Apr-13 14:44:17

Flaming- I just think that there is an important debate to be had around this subject, and the views of somebody who is obviously barking mad don't have a place in that debate. All anyone can say is "this is a wildly extreme and unreasonable thing to say, and is, as far as any of us can say, unique to the person who said it to you". There's nowhere to go from there, really, is there?

ubik Sat 06-Apr-13 14:50:59

"am hoping for a rational discussion without going down the line of who is better than whom"

Well good luck with that...

flaminhoopsaloolah Sat 06-Apr-13 14:58:30

Right, ok, sorry, I've obviously created some sort of offended thing here. It wasn't my intention, I really did just want to see what others thought. I don't appreciate the "don't be stupid, dear" tone I got from one person, nor the suggestion that I might just be trying to cause trouble (I'm not a troll). I was taken aback, I'm not going to name people, I did say it was in relation to a conversation about those who deserve/don't deserve help from benefits and that this opinion was suddenly thrown in. I hardly ever come on AIBU so don't know if there are lots of threads about this or not (I suppose |I should have turned off my "stupid" neurone and gone and just searched.

I simply thought it was a pretty awful thing to say and very judgemental but since I'd not really ever come across it thought I'd see what other people thought. My intention was not to goad (again, accusing me of trolling without actually saying it). I guess basically, as I often do, I wanted to see if I was extremely off with my viewpoint and needed to rethink things or if it was the other way around.

flaminhoopsaloolah Sat 06-Apr-13 15:01:46

Oh and to those who added some interesting commentary, thank you.

lljkk Netherlands Sat 06-Apr-13 15:07:06

I've never encountered it IRL either, Flamin. Just MN and the well-publicised comments by Cherie BB. I think most people are content to just put their heads down & get on with their own lives, don't have energy to worry about yours or mine as well.

BoulevardOfBrokenSleep Sat 06-Apr-13 15:10:09

It was on a thread on here, right? I've just seen it, though I forget where.

I just thought, pfft, right, whatever.

Also, you're supposed to challenge on the thread! and not start a thread about a thread. Slap on the wrist for you grin

Voodika Sat 06-Apr-13 15:13:46

Very large cream bun coming your way.....

flaminhoopsaloolah Sat 06-Apr-13 15:18:03

Boulevard - it's not a thread about a thread is it? I thought a thread about a thread was posting a thread and saying - I want to talk about this thread. No I didn't, someone said to me that SAHP are morally pernicious and lazy and that comment had nothing whatsoever to do with the subject of the thread - in fact, it was blatantly mudding the waters of the thread and going completely off how is that a thread about a thread.

Voodika...I'm not starting a bun fight...not throwing anything here....

maddening Sat 06-Apr-13 15:19:22

so was it in a two people debating the ins and outs of modern life? Were they playing devil's advocate?

I think that they can hold whatever view they like and in an open debate they can express that (politely as poss) - although if you are a sahm I would think that they would be unreasonable as a friend in particular to make such comments to you and while free to express them cannot expect doing so to not impact your opinion of them as a friend.

I am a sahm (until I start my new job soon) and couldn't care less that your friend judges me for taking time to spend with my son.

It was on the Daily Mail thread, posted by Xenia. For what it's worth, OP, I agree with you. I was shocked that someone could think that.

maddening Sat 06-Apr-13 15:31:18

but you get it both ends some suggest wohp are damaging their dc and those like the person the op talks about.

flaminhoopsaloolah Sat 06-Apr-13 15:33:50

Maddening, I'm sure you do. I should have titled the post to reflect both ends of the spectrum.

maddening Sat 06-Apr-13 15:37:34

at both ends of the spectrum are small minded idiots lacking compassion and empathy - they aren't representative of the general opinion so I wouldn't take it to heart - it says more about them than those that they judge.

flaminhoopsaloolah Sat 06-Apr-13 15:41:43

I meant the spectrum as in some families have a full time SAHP, some have a different arrangement combining working/SAHPing and some have parents who both work full time. On reflection the title should have reflected that and why are people so judgemental of those choices instead of it being SAHP.

My immediate thought was that this person is unpleasant and small minded, but since I'd never really discussed it with anyone it was worth asking opinions.

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