What would you think if this was happening in your y3 child's class?

(187 Posts)
RunnersWorld Sat 09-Feb-13 15:13:18

And what, if anything, would you do?

One of the children is very disruptive, including bouts of physical and verbal violence, e.g.:

-Throwing chairs
-Swearing at the class and teacher
-Tearing up his own and others' work
-Pacing around the class when they are supposed to be working/listening
-Walking out of class meaning the teacher has to leave to bring him back
-There have also been two complaints from children/parents about him touching girls inappropriately (now has 121 at lunchtimes, so is constantly watched)

At least one from this list happens daily, once it was so extreme that the teacher had to remove the rest of the class from the room while two TA's tried to calm him. School was unable to contact anyone to collect him so he spent the rest of the day in the Head's office, as the TA basically refused to work with him. He's big for his age, strong and scary when he loses control.

My DS2 is in this class. I know all the detail because of my job, most parents of course will only have patchy stories relayed by their DC, but they all know there is a problem. To avoid drip feeding, I will also say I know that he is a very damaged child as a result of sexual abuse and currently living with a foster family. Other parents know nothing of this of course.

I am interested in an opinion from the POV of the parents who know nothing of his background, please.

HotheadPaisan Mon 11-Feb-13 19:54:36

I see pushing, shoving, name-calling, teasing and picking on kids going on all the time, maybe it is just this age but I think it should be stopped. Which brings me back to why I have requested playtime support for S1, I don't want him targetting others, and he needs help with social skills, but there are other DC without SEND who need this guidance too. If he gets the support others will benefit too but parents with concerns should be requesting this too.

HotheadPaisan Mon 11-Feb-13 19:49:36

Like I said, I was referencing a younger and specific group, I hope it changes by Y3. But I wouldn't leave S1 out of hearing, he is constantly supervised at home and has to be, especially around S2.

My point is that other kids are experiencing other issues and no-one is taking them up and I think someone should. I know one parent who will now because the things she was telling me her DS said were going on sounded like closer supervision was needed.

Fairenuff Mon 11-Feb-13 19:42:36

nt children assult eachother all the time

Not in year 3 surely? This is not my experience. By that age, children have learned appropriate behaviour.

mrz Mon 11-Feb-13 19:28:55

Yes out of hearing ...say playing with a train set/scalextrix in own room

HotheadPaisan Mon 11-Feb-13 19:20:35

Out of hearing?

Ironically there is a thread on SN right now about these issues from a parent of a child with SNs.

HotheadPaisan Mon 11-Feb-13 19:10:32

Anyway, these are all younger and it's not going well and hasn't been for a while.

mrz Mon 11-Feb-13 19:07:46

At home

HotheadPaisan Mon 11-Feb-13 19:07:12

Unsupervised, in a group?

mrz Mon 11-Feb-13 18:55:57

You wouldn't let an eight year old play independently?

HotheadPaisan Mon 11-Feb-13 18:41:32

Nowhere special but I know the bullying that goes on, ironically others are only starting to speak up about it because of the action I am taking to stop S1 targetting or being targetted. They are not supervised enough at playtimes imo, there should be much more structured, supervised, co-operative play. I hate the 'leave them to it' nonsense, you wouldn't with kids this age at your house so why is it ok in schools?

Agree there are a number of things that could be done that aren't as extreme as ostracising an abused child who has already lost his family. When these children get excluded or encouraged to leave the local school you exclude their families too.

tethersend Mon 11-Feb-13 17:46:09

Assaults on children and staff are unacceptable.

Evacuating whole classes is unacceptable.

But it is not a case of putting up with this or going to a special school; there are other solutions.

If I had my way, all teachers would receive mandatory physical handling and behaviour management training, and would be unable to teach without completing a course of proper, certificated training. Schools should be able to access adequate funding to support children with these kind of difficulties.

It is also worth bearing in mind that the child in question is in care, and different legislation applies to Looked After Children when it comes to exclusions etc. The child may or may not have SN in addition to any emotional and behavioural difficulties resulting from trauma, but it is not certain that he has any SN at all.

nt children assult eachother all the time ?

Yes and many get expelled for much less than this child has done. I think that shows just how much that school is trying to help this poor boy and that they are trying their hardest to fulfil their duties as teachers and to inclusion laws.

They may be failing but they sound like they r trying.

Chandon Mon 11-Feb-13 17:05:45

NT children assault eachother all the time?!

Not my Y3 class! Thankfully....most of them have figured out about boundaries by then, they may be cheeky at time or a bit wild, but " assaulting eachother all the time"?! Where do you live?

HotheadPaisan Mon 11-Feb-13 15:47:25

NT children assault other children all the time, we should all be clamouring for more adult supervision and structured play.

HotheadPaisan Mon 11-Feb-13 15:45:36

Of course hels, but I see discontent over things that really do not matter at 5.

hazeyjane Mon 11-Feb-13 15:26:07

I would just hope that a professional involved in ds's care did not write posts on the internet, using his issues and our lives to discuss some sort of moral or political dilemma.

Fairenuff Mon 11-Feb-13 15:24:26

Safety is becoming an issue in primary schools, more so than ever before. I have been assaulted by a child in the course of my work. That goes with my job and to some extent is to be expected, although not condoned. However, children have also been assaulted and that is not acceptable.

socharlottet Mon 11-Feb-13 15:19:55

I don't think there is any breach of confidentiality.Every school in the country will have at least one kid like this and she's probably changed . or
details anyway

hels71 Mon 11-Feb-13 15:13:51

"Don't snipe and fret when the reality is your kid is likely to be streets ahead of most children with disabilities and their outcomes are hugely better statistically."

Hmm, but frankly if that child is touching my child in places where she should not be being touched and is physically hurting her on a regular basis (which is what is happening in my friends school) then I think I would be allowed to "snipe" and "fret"...regardless of whether or not my child is streets ahead or not....

lougle Mon 11-Feb-13 14:56:05

"It's easy to say 'change the reality' but how do you suggest that is done?"

For a start, by society not accepting that the law won't be followed in this situation, because it's 'just too hard' or 'just not possible' hmm

cassgate Mon 11-Feb-13 14:53:09

We had a similar situation at my dcs school. The child in question had very complex needs and was violent at times to children and staff, would spit, swear, throw things around the class, up end tables and chairs etc.At least once a week the class was evacuated for safety reasons. His parents were very open and honest about his problems and both them and the school were doing their best to get him accessed and the appropriate provison put in place for him. His parents wanted him to go to a special school but the red tape they had to jump through to get him accepted was unbelievable. In the meantime, they had no choice but to leave him in a mainstream school until things had been sorted. It took 2 years. I have seen his mum since and he is now doing very well as he has the support he needs. I feel very sorry for these kids as its all well and good having an inclusion policy but at what cost.

Fairenuff Mon 11-Feb-13 14:36:39

Changing the reality is down to the individual head teachers. And if parents are not happy with how situations are dealt with in school, they need to bring it up with governors. That's the only way to force change.

As it stands, the law says it must happen - or what? How is it measured, how is it enforced, how is it policed? Schools are geared up for Ofsted inspections but they don't reflect day to day life in the school.


Fwiw I agree with you, lougle but that doesn't mean that change will happen.

HotheadPaisan Mon 11-Feb-13 14:27:59

inappropriatelyemployed, I think the changes in funding are an attempt to make schools more directly accountable to parents in terms of tangible support but I can't see it happening. It will just pit parents against schools. Is it ringfenced btw do you know?

HotheadPaisan Mon 11-Feb-13 14:25:44

It's like saying thought hat we expect too much of society to ensure people with disabilities can participate. A lot of it isn't rocket science. But other parents have to help too. Don't snipe and fret when the reality is your kid is likely to be streets ahead of most children with disabilities and their outcomes are hugely better statistically.

lougle Mon 11-Feb-13 14:22:07

"All the legislation in the world won't change the fact that some teachers and support staff still do not get proper training and support. They should, of course, but in reality this is not always the case."

No, but what has to happen, is schools and more importantly Local Authorities to understand that parents aren't asking a favour, parents don't want their children to be accommodated or tolerated, they want them to be educated as equal and valued peers.

The law says that this must happen. It isn't a case of 'in reality'. If it is, change the reality angry

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