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RE: .
By drycrust3 on 2/9/2012 1:13:18 PM , Rating: 2
even Western countries while they were going through the industrial revolutions also had poor pay and working conditions for factory workers,

The reason conditions improved was because of unions, not because management somehow "became enlightened". Unions can force management to have realistic hours of work, to provide a safe environment to work in, to follow fair and correct procedures when hiring and firing, to pay penal rates when employees need to work overtime, to provide proper accommodation for employees that have to work away from home, and to provide a decent funeral for every employee killed on the job; and they can lobby for government inspectors to visit work places to ensure the law is kept regarding working conditions, and for the factories to be fined if the conditions are found to be substandard (which they obviously are at Foxconn and Wintek) and not fixed.
From personal observation I would say the working conditions at Foxconn and Wintek won't change until either:
1) Apple puts minimum working conditions for Foxconn and Wintek employees into their contracts, followed by penalty clauses if those working conditions aren't met, e.g. $1000 payment going to every employee who works more than 12 hours, $10,000 to all employees forced to live in a crowded apartment, $1M going to the family of any employee who dies, for the whole factory to close down so all employees can attend the funeral, and for the senior management to all say nice things about the employee at the funeral.
2) The Chinese government allows unions in the factories and gives them the right to strike.
When either of those happen, suddenly all those "It's too difficult ... we can't afford to do this ... we don't know why these things happen" excuses will disappear, the 30 hour shifts will end, the 20 employees living in an apartment will disappear. Sure, the cost of the end product will go up, but Apple relies on the high price of their product to give it an air of exclusiveness.

RE: .
By tayb on 2/9/2012 1:46:35 PM , Rating: 2
I don't think conditions improved in America because of Unions I think they improved because the government stepped in and started regulating away safety and wage concerns.

1. That is never Apple's responsibility and Foxconn would either simply say no or be the party paying for these failures.

2. The Chinese government can allow unions if it wants to and these conditions will not change. People apply for these jobs knowing the conditions they will be working because the alternative is worse. If every single currently employed individual went on strike it would be annoying for Foxconn but they would just terminate their employment and hire 100,000 new employees.

I do not think these conditions will EVER improve. We'll see advanced robotics removing the human element before we see a minimum wage and 8 hour factory work days in China.

RE: .
By tng on 2/9/2012 1:57:09 PM , Rating: 2
He is correct, unions did reform labor. Government regulation came as a lobby effort of unions in these areas.

Now labor unions have been largely replaced by lawyers that will work pro-Bono for clients that feel they are not being treated fairly by an employer. The threat of class action lawsuits are now enough to keep most large employers in line with fair labor practices.

RE: .
By tayb on 2/9/2012 2:19:21 PM , Rating: 2
I think unions helped to get the attention of the government but without federal laws I don't much progress would have been made. I'm not a history major so I'm probably wrong.

RE: .
By drycrust3 on 2/9/2012 2:07:37 PM , Rating: 2

Apple have said they care about the people being employed in Foxconn's factories. If they mean what they say, then they can put clauses into their contract with Foxconn to ensure the assembly line workers are treated correctly.
I agree with you that Apple shouldn't have to do this, but the simple fact is Foxconn aren't being a responsible employer. As such, Apple have three options: 1) adopt the "I see no evil" attitude and pretend they don't know about the poor working conditions (or pretend there is nothing they can do); 2) walk away from Foxconn and China and go somewhere where the local labour laws guarantee Apple's products are made by employees working in a good environment; 3) fix the problem.
To me, the third solution is the approach Apple should be adopting. Western companies should be setting the example of how employees should be treated in China. How can we claim to be better when we treat our Chinese employees the same or worse than their local companies?

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