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    If it were in India, would be better. Walk by the housing projects in Cohoes near the falls. See all the India women and their children? I am not sure how they do it, but I am told they come here with the children and do not respect US marital laws, so the mother and children get the welfare and housing while the husband rakes in the bucks as a consultant. Again, I am not quoting an absolute source, but I can say I have seen it…

  2. Helen says:

    LANA – “I will still be voting NO and not one no voter I know has changed their mind since watching the MSC’s get axed.”

    Sure you do. You can try that psychological ploy suitable for you “NO” voters. Just wait until YOU ARE LAID-OFF and then you will really know how good you had it.

  3. State Idiocy says:

    I saw that a guy being laid off is being hired by a contractor to the state to do the exact same job. The contractor is charging the state $75 per hour. Why are things like this not splashed over the front page of the NY Post?

  4. Paying Attention says:

    If things are so bad that Prince Andy has to layoff people, then why is he doing this very expensive, enabling action?
    Another insult to we the little people.
    I have two words for you Princey: MOTHER TONGUE.
    This is ridiculous given the fact you want us to believe you must layoff people.
    Your nose is long enough Pinnicocuomo.

  5. DOCSguy says:

    @State Idiocy
    To add to that, our facility has just approved overtime to make up for the work of those being laid off…I’m not a genius but paying unemployement to those being laidoff who will cut way down on their spending and possibly lose their home and no longer pay property taxes and at the same time paying overtime to make sure their work gets done by those who remain employed…Really a stupid move by our Governor just to make a point so he can claim victory over the union


    @sagging morale! BRAVO!!!

  7. kate says:

    PEF……….it is time to take the gloves off. Cuomo is not negotiating…..he is purposely gathering bodies to lay off. Enough.

  8. ResidentX says:

    Master85, here is a class for you… if they control 90% of the wealth then they can pay 90% of the taxes. Ill let you stew on that a while and figure out how they arent being taxed at 90%. I swear… reading some of what is written out here concerns me greatly that some of you walk this planet.

  9. Master85 -

    PS – you mean that same Tom Golisano who only moved on paper but still pays all sorts of taxes here, both personally and through his businesses located here? That Tom Golisano?

    Weakest anecdotal evidence ever that the wealthy are leaving – because none of you paid attention and noticed he didn’t sell one house or move one business. He changed the forms he files and pays slightly less in income taxes to the state now as a non-resident who earns the bulk of his money here. Nothing else changed for him tax wise – its all a dog and pony show.

  10. NYS Techie says:

    @Helen: We don’t have it “good”. We don’t have it any better than anyone else with our degrees and specialties. We almost always make less money, for one thing. Up until the last two governors, we USED to be able to say we had good job security, but that’s about it. Now that’s gone, and this is JUST ANOTHER JOB, so your argument doesn’t work.

    I would also point out that our counterparts in the private sector don’t have to put up with the media and politicians VILIFYING us, turning what USED to be an honorable way of life (civil service) into something people assume you should be ashamed of. It’s completely ridiculous how we are treated these days. Government service is no longer respected, it’s becoming a black mark on your record.

    So, yeah, I’m not buying that we’ve got it “good”. Personally I think this job STINKS. Every private-sector job I’ve had has been less stressful. And that says a mouthful!

    Maybe once Cuomo gets voted out of office in shame, things will get better. I’m hopeful.

  11. Monty says:

    Hey Andrew, maybe if you told us where all that Housing and Urban Development money went that “disappeared” (when you were running that show in Washington) we could go get it and bail out New York. How soon we forget! How soon we forget those wonderful years when you were our wonderful HUD Secretary, and how soon we stopped looking for the missing money!

  12. downstate Somewhere says:

    NYS Techie: Actually the top rate was 91% until Kennedy lowered it to 70% while closing some tap loopholes. Historically the 70% top rate seems to have produced the best economy. Its been lowered way too much–it just makes our economy very fragile at this ridiculously low 35% top rate

  13. downstate Somewhere says:

    I meant tax loopholes not TAP —but you knew that!

  14. downstate Somewhere says:

    @Please come together: What we need is NYS unions to unite, form a party and run someone for governor. Given the relatively high % of union members in NYS we could garner enough votes as a spoiler to influence the candidates–or in a 3 way contents we could even win–ya gotta believe!

  15. downstate Somewhere says:

    @Master85: Class dismissed? How about that school’s accreditation dismissed? You really believe that bull? Well those taxes have been lowered.. a LOT–and we are doing real well aren’t we – LOL! Yeah 8 years of very low taxes for the richest and what have that begotten us–the 2nd worst economy in US history–I guess we haven’t lowered them enough–lets lower the top rate to 25%–and when the economy get worse–well you know–its still too high–then we can lower it to 9% (hello Cain)–and when things get worse—etc. etc. Have you ever researched the cause and effect of tax increases/cuts?–its very eye opening. Instead of parroting fiscal conservative pundits do a little independent research.

  16. Retired'05 says:

    If the vote had been “YES” and only passed by 1 vote would we have a revote? Of course not. People voted NO for a variety of reason. I’m sure none of those reasons was to see someone fired. If the State can do without these jobs why weren’t they eliminated before?

  17. victor dias says:


    Pontius Pilate, then Govenor of Judea also had a decision to make….
    Wil you listen to the mob and the popular opinion of the masses…
    or will you do what is right…?

    30 pieces of silver or 345,000,000 it still represents the same sell out.

    The governors sells us out to the special interest groups, wall street, and the campaign whales.

    The PEF membership sells us out to get a better bargaining position…

    The more things change..the more thay stay the same…

  18. bgbytoys says:

    x said, the state pension fund is fully funded and continues to be so.

    but it isn’t. the state has a note due in 2013 to pay the pension fund loan back. $6.5 billion maybe a drop in the $130 billion bucket but that money really isn’t in there. they say it is because ny would NEVER default on a loan.

    tthe pension fund was also propped up this year by the locals. they had to contribut a bit over 19% for employees. fire and policemen their rate was 25% of salary.

  19. NO REVOTE says:

    The vote was a democratic proces, and the result was a clear rejection of the contract. If the result had been approval of the contract, do you think it fair I demand a revote because I didn’t like the result? Hell no.

    If there is a revote on the same or similar contract, I will contact the ACLU and seek legal counsel to sue anyone and everyone involved.

    I’m mad as hell at the way we have been treated, and I’m not going to take it anymore.

  20. ResidentX says:

    Master85, like many … you spin raising taxes on the wealthy to raising taxes on everyone.

    why is it that not one single republican can talk about raising taxes on the wealthy? Each and every single time the topic is brought up they immediately word dance and twist it into raising taxes on everyone.

    we are talking about the wealthiest Americans… we arent talking about ALL Americans no matter how much you people insist on twisting it.

    to everyone else… pay attention… even Cuomo twists it. Watch, the next time he speaks on the topic. He does the same thing with occupy wall street. They are there PRIMARILY against corporate greed… thus the capital of this corporate greed world is wall street. Instead, cuomo minimizes and deflects saying “I understand, they are frustrated with the economy”… NO NO they arent frustrated with the economy. They are frustrated with the corporate world devastating the economy.

  21. victor dias says:


    3 year contract instead of 5…
    No raises for 3 years except for cost of living increase…
    (this is fair… with everything going up, and no raises, at least if the COL goes up, our salaries keep pace)

    Increases in health care – not sure here… I have a family plan, but my wife could always get hers throught her employer… kids will be off automatically in 3-4 years, but they work and should be able to get it, but can’t because of definition of independence, so catch 22.

    THis may also effect people differently so hard to say.
    How about reining in waste or making the millionaires ante up.
    THey have ridden the gravy train to a train wreak.
    It is enough that the tax payers have been burdened with the tab for the clean up..

    With a shorter contract perod, Gov should be able to gaurantee no further layoffs at least going into 2012, other wise- what are we bargaining for?

    Furlough days: – I am for it, I can use the time off to catch up on yard work, or home improvement projects, develop a knock out web-site or mobile app.- maybe do some volunteer work at a hospital for a tax break…?

    5 days like CSEA before March 31, and another 5 days in 2012. Use it to stretch out the holiday period from 12/24,26,27,28,31.

    Look at the bright side… that time off that you waned but didnt have enough time, now you will get it.

    The glass is half full…

  22. Frackenstein says:

    Is Cuomo running the state or running for president in 2016? I thought Job killing was a Republican specialty. Andy’s acting an awful lot like governors in currently labor-unfriendly states like Wisconsin and Ohio.

    Tom Libous is bragging about his cozy relationship with Cuomo in his mailers: “Together with Governor Cuomo we got results!” And Cuomo sided with the Republicans on the millionaires tax – against his own party! What’s wrong with this picture, sports fans?

    I think Prince Andrew is a closet Republican. He’s certainly a 1-percenter. And Libous has presided over a decades-long economic decline in his district. Thousands of good jobs lost. Andy and Tom are friends. Lucky us.

  23. MAR says:

    How can Andy say he doesn’t want anyone laid off when he is the one who ordered the layoffs? His arrogance and spin are beyond belief. Someone needs to teach him what negotiate means and make him stop being such a bully. If this was school instead of politics, he would be in the Principal’s office every day.

  24. victor dias says:

    @Middle Class Person
    Self insuring healthcare

    This is an interesting concept. Is anybody else doing it? It is done for property and the concept of wrap-around major medical is very similar, the concept being that if I am a independent business person or a small mom and pop business, I cannot afford the cadillac plans that many executives at top fortune 5oo companies have….
    I can afford to buy a major med policy that will cover the catastrophic losses – cancer, heart surgery, etc. and take a high deductible to keep my premium down,- (similar to when you take a $1000 dollar deductible on your comprehensive car coverage vs 250 deductible with full glass) and I will pay my own way for the trips to the doc for sniffles and colds.
    Normally it would wrap around a policy that covers these lesser medical events, which I decided to cover myself, – thus self insure myself at the front end.
    In the case of self insuring on health care, I am afraid that the cost of administering such a behemoth on a state-wide level would introduce be prohibitive, and you would be talking about putting into the hands of the state- decisions about what is covered and what is not, who gets paid, etc… very unwieldy…

  25. Observer Scout says:

    Finally! The elusive “missing link”!

    Everyone should take the time to read this article, and absorb the words it says.

    VERT good read, and shines a VERT poor light on Cuomo….

  26. Observer Scout says:

    That’s a VERY poor light…

  27. Are You Kidding Me? says:

    ATT: PEF “Negotiators”:

    PEF members will not accept PAY CUTS while the governor is merrily handing out massive TAX CUTS to his wealthy friends.

    Furloughs, in any form, are PAY CUTS.

    ANY increase in the PERCENTAGE of our premium contributions is a PAY CUT.

    The DRASTIC increases in co-pays proposed for our prescription drug plan are PAY CUTS.

    Furthermore, PEF members will not accept a THREE-YEAR wage freeze (unless you can guarantee us three years of zero inflation). A one-year wage freeze would be a more than fair concession on our part–and that is all that the governor asked for during his campaign. (Maybe he forgot).

    In the meantime, our current contract suits us just fine.

  28. ResidentX says:

    victor dias, something to remember as you think about picking up health care through your spouse. Many employers will often measure/compare against someone like the state as far as benefits. If you agree to a large hit. Soon, that hit will be perpetuated through the remainder of the public sector and thus set a new low bar that would allow further reductions in private sector benefits.

    the process right now is:

    - for a long time public sector fought for benefits via their union.
    the benefits were agreed to often in lieu of increased pay.
    - for decades politicians have given benefits in lieu of pay as trade offs to the unions. they passed it off as a great success to prevent pay raises and offset them with benefits that at first glance appeared to cost less.
    - now, many of the same politicians who perpetuated this practice are pulling a bait and switch. They now want to pull those benefits out from under the public sector thus leaving them with the same or similar benefits as they “right fight” shouting “the private sector doesnt get those benefits!” and of course the decades of lagging pay increases that have left the salaries far below their private sector counterparts.
    - how about step increases… theres been a push to do away with those. Yet people fail to realize that these to were a negotiated concession in previous contracts.

    these people apparently now want government services at walmart prices. Anyone who goes to walmart looking for services knows exactly what they get.

    New York State in particular feels that it can be all things to all people. They spend more on medicaid than Texas and California COMBINED (both of which are larger states than New York). As long as we insist on giving money away to the wealthy corporations and to social welfare programs as if all this money grows on trees… no matter how many state employees you lay off … it isnt going to get any better what so ever.

    the estimate for next year is $2.4 BILLION in deficit. A 5 % cut to medicaid would more than cover the deficit. Instead the governor is choosing to do so on the backs of 20% of the work force. All while handing out BILLIONS to wealthy, profitable corporations to create minimal jobs.

  29. common sense says:

    Wake up people It’s over. The Contract will be what it is a week from now or a year from now. Cuomo Wins CSEA wins PEF and 3500 families LOSE. The PEF leadership failed to communiate the true issues to the members hence a ill advised No Vote. The Union is dead

  30. TICKUF says:

    32 CSEA jobs openings are now posted for DOT. The Gov must have found money in the dire budget to hire. Funny no PEF jobs are listed. Every day that passes I feel more confident in my contract vote. I feel sorry for the victims of Cuomos’ anger. For each and every turn the Governor makes he reinforces my expectations of him. He employs some pretty evil tactics yet claims the high ground. He has no shortage of tax payer money for wealthy coorporations to support projects that will provide for his legacy. Yet, when it comes to his public servants he treats them like garbage. The more I see and hear the more I will support PEF in voting no to any revote. If PEF revotes CSEA should have the option to.

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