5:39 pm ET
Mar 3, 2011


White House Signals Opposition to ‘Last In, First Out’

    • Parents are not as stupid as people believe. Bloomberg and cuomo should be ashamed of themselves for bashing unions and trying to destroy the middle class. The workers are the first they attack eventhough they come from families of privilege. Seniority is used in the mayors office and even when he ran for a third term he claimed his seniority made him a better candidate. He will be mayor for 12 years. Most teachers do not even last 2 years.

    • We have kids going to NYC school system. And I must say that New Yorkers and its future generations are getting a very bad deal in the name of protecting so called middle class (who are the incompetent teachers and its unions in disguise of middle class). We the parents who send our kids to NYC school system ARE the middle class and we vehemently oppose the teacher's union who have stifled the growth of our kids and young brains. Majority of the teachers are incompetent and do not have even basic math and reading skills. Shame of politicians who are tying to protect their vote bank by selling out the kids and future generation of New York.

    • Cheers to the NYC parents who are standing up for their kids. They are the seeds to our countries future and if we have to layoff under performing teachers and reward to good teachers all our kids will benefit. Corporate America doesn't hold onto nonperforming employees and neither shoudl our school systems. The kids are worth too much to our country.

    • NYCParent probably knows very little about the teaching force in New York City. The majority are very devoted to their profession and care a great deal about the students that they educate. Studies demonstrate that states that have a unionized teaching force have higher student performance. Unions fight for smaller class size, make sure that students receive mandated services, and work collaboratively with parents and administrations to improve the delivery of educational services. I think that the bigger problems that will face future generations will be the lack of meaningful jobs, the destruction of the natural environment and the loss of hope for a bright future,

    • Hey! Bloomy! Fire every one of them, "good" or "bad" then sort them out for a new offer to some, the best, of them.

    • Teachers should be evaluated base on their individual results over a long period of time. Using test scores, student surveys and independent observers.

      Teachers firing and tenure should not be based on years as a teacher. That is not good enough.
      I hope this will change soon. Teaching is one of the most important job in our country and in the world and it should be regulated that one. With high expectation and bonus for teachers that exceed and firing for those that consistently fail our youth.

    • "...seeking to lay off first teachers who have been convicted of crimes, have poor performance ratings and who are chronically absent."

      Let's at least agree that these 3 groups need to be at the head of the line to leave over less senior teachers that can stay out of jail, meet the minimus on the job, and show to to boot.

    • Delinda,

      It is sad when home schooling seems to produce much higher achieving students than our schools. Yes, the "classroom" is smaller, but the "teacher" is rarely licensed to teach, has no formal teacher training, and must be able to keep the interest and the attention of his/her own children throughout a school day. Colleges and universities are clamoring for the home schooled child for a reason.

      While many teachers may be wonderful, the schools should have the authority to release those teachers who are not adequate at their jobs. Any teacher worth his/her salt should welcome such a mandate. Obviously, unions have not been successful in ensuring competent teachers in the classrooms because our schools continue to churn out underachievers. While a lot of factors may contribute to this, the buck stops in the classroom with the teacher. There is ample proof that these underachievers can excel, there are inner city schools where phenomenal teachers have completely turned these underachievers into college bound students. Was this accomplished with higher pay for the teacher? NO. Wash this accomplished with smaller classroom sizes? NO, Was this accomplished through any of the unions' efforts? NO It was accomplished by the individual teacher who was dedicated to helping these children achieve. It isn't rocket science, it is a simple matter of weeding out the chaff and rewarding those teachers who excel.

    • @mary m

      Sorry, where are you getting this information that home schooling produces higher achieving students than schools?

      I've never personally heard of any home-schooled person accomplishing anything.

    • Make each school an independent entity run by the PTA. Everything from lesson plans, lunch menus, and who gets hired and who gets fired is decided by that PTA. Only those with kids going to that school may qualify for any decisions. If unions want to continue operating, they'll have to negotiate a contract with each school. And schools are to be under no obligation to negotiate if they choose to ignore the unions nor obligated to hire union-approved educators. That'll ensure lower costs of operation and making sure people who actually care about performance are running the show, not people who are only concerned with getting elected.

      Separate politics from schools and you'll see performance soar.

    • If we gave the teachers a surprise test.......the same one we give the kids to determine if they've learned anything, what percentage of these "teachers" would fail?

      My guess is 50%.

      Our Nation is heading full steam ahead into oblivion......led by children educated by a failed "job machine". It's time to believe your own eyes instead of political rhetoric.

    • If we are too cowardly to address the TENURE of politicos like Duncan and his entourage, and the bloated bureaucracy of the Federal Education Department, they we get what we deserve.

      Other, more successful countries, do NOT have universal education for coddled children and spoiled adults.

      It is beyond time to harpoon the American Dream for those who VOLUNTARILY disenfranchised themselves from the education system.

      If we want true achievement at low cost, then we must admit this: 50% of all children and adults are below average, and the resources needed to educate them may be put to better use in alternative allocations.


    • Mike,

      You sound like one of those below the average.

      Why should my scarce resources in any way shape or form be allocated to you or your children?

      Please explain why you reserve the right to take what is mine, and do with it as you please.


    • Teaching is so important that we must:
      1. Lower their pay.
      2. Fire them based upon popularity and student surveys.
      3. Subject them to failed markets for their labor.
      4. Hold them accountable for results well outside their scope of control.
      5. Publish their names, and pillory them and damage their reputations, and threaten to block them from ever entering their profession again.
      6. Allow parents to slander them, allow student to hit them, and allow think tank experts to experiment with them.

      Yep, teaching is one hell of a job.

      It appears a better job would be a SAW gunner in the Sangin Province of Afghanistan.

      Of course, what conservative or religious fundamentalist Tea Party, social security sucking, kook would know that.

      There is a new sport in this country. Bash the helpless.

      Is that the definition of conservative innovation?

    • @dan g
      There are not a lot of studies on home schooling versus public schooling. The few studies, which are not totally accepted, show home school students scoring well above their public school peers. There are no studies anywhere that show home school students scoring equal to or below their public school peers. Home schooled students are all around you. In NC, there are 50,000 home schooled students. Also, the few studies that have been done on the social aspects of home schooling show that home schooled students are more socially adjusted and relate better to others than their public school peers. No studies exist that show home school students are less socially adapted. Home schooling parents often form groups to pursue group educational activities. Home schooling is a very viable alternative to the factory method of public schools. I have family members who home schooled their kids all the way up to college. Their kids turned out very well. My kids are in public schools. There's no way we could have home schooled. We did send our kids to private school for 9 years until the recession took my job. The change from private to public school has been jarring for the kids, my wife, and myself. Public schools are like dealing with the Department of Motor vehicles every day. Its been a strange experience but we're adapting. On the plus side, my son in public school is getting training in the tools to build video games in a 9th grade course. He wants to do this as a career. He has several more of these courses he can take between now and 12th grade. That's a very nice benefit of attending public school. The private school could not have provided this training. His public high school also offers training and certification in computer networking and security, very nice opportunities. Both public schools and home schools each offer good things. We don't have to have a battle between the too.

    • Note:

      All of you must, today, pass a test, in one sided limits.

      If you fail you will be:

      1. Banned from you job.
      2. Your name will be published in the paper and your score listed.

      There is an American tradition of reciprocity.

      It is time to start living by our principles.

    • Mike,

      You sent your kids to private school, and paid for it, so that you can your child could be told how smart you are.

      Not that they any way to measure that genetic capability.

      But they knew that was what you wanted.

      Here is some dough. Tell me my kid is smart.

      You are having a hard time adjusting to the fact that your child may not be that smart.

      And if you have a hard time navigating the publics it may be that people like me do not really want to educate your child.

      Think about that Mike.

      My children are both SCIENTISTS and make good pay.

      They were the talent that taxpayers paid for. They pay loads of taxes.

      And each day they innovate in the true sense.

      Your whining is tiresome.

      Man up like the rest of us and either get it done, or step out of the way.

      Become a tiger mom, and not a conservative whiner.

      You are helping YOUR CHILD LOSE THE RACE.

    • "...The mayor is seeking to lay off first teachers who have been convicted of crimes..."

      Umm - NY needs a legislative change in order to be able to fire teachers that have been convicted of a crime??? Words fail me.

    • Great teachers are worth their weight in gold. Do you really think that ANYONE would want to let go of great teachers? The teachers need to stand up for what they believe is right and not that the unions purport to protect all of them including the slugs. Like every profession there are the great ones, the new enthusiastic ones, , and then there are those that should be doing something else, But the system supports longevity despite lack of performance. The bottom line is the community can only afford to pay so much and, you're either part of the problem or you're part of the solution. Every other industry requires performance for pay, not just breathing and showing up. Bad eggs need to be eliminated from every profession because they stain the reputation of the others. Teachers should support the removal of the non-performers. I guarantee you that if performance pay was in place and if districts were able to eliminate those that just don't fit or work anymore, each of them would look at their performance and either clean it up or move on. No one else gets to keep their job if they don't perform.
      For anyone to insinuate that the reason kids don't do well is because of the environment, genetics, family make-up, etc. really doesn't love their job. Yes, all those things effect the outcome, but great teachers I know love to be the reason that those children develop a desire to learn and to make something of themselves. We have an obligation to educate our children. Everyone including parents need to do their part. If teachers need to earn a salary higher than the community can afford them they should go out into the corporate world where they have that opportunity and they still will need to perform in order to keep their jobs. Please understand that I want teachers to receive a good pay, but it needs to be in line with what the community can afford. If you need to earn more, check out another community. We have allowed to unions to move us so far away from where we ought to be, and I know that not all teachers follow their lead..

    • @M


      Using student surveys? Often kids like the most slack teachers because they give less homework or show videos every class. My Friend had a high school Psychology teacher that showed Lost episodes in class 2 to 3 times a week. As a good student she knew she was getting a bad deal but most of her class mates loved him.

    • @lam

      "For anyone to insinuate that the reason kids don’t do well is because of the environment, genetics, family make-up, etc. really doesn’t love their job."

      I taught Social Studies for 3 years before moving to my current job which is still in education. I had classes of both "gifted" and "at risk" students. I put a great deal of time into both.

      But, the advanced kids almost always had very involved parents who returned my calls and thanked me when I contacted them. I often got the feeling that even if I was bad at my job most of these student from good homes would still pass the final. Mom or Dad would make the kid study on his/her own or help them with the subject to ensure this. Very, often the "gifted" students were exceptionally intelligent. However, several were of average IQ they just had a great work ethic and the fortitude to stick with things even when it was difficult. That behavior is learned from a role model.

      The parents of my "at risk" students were completely different. They seemed either exasperated "well I would make him behave if I could" or utterly disinterested. I had several "at risk" students who were very smart and talented but all their energy went in the wrong direction. It was almost a mind game were I would try to trick them into doing something productive and they would try to find ways to fool me out of giving them work. I had "at risk" students who were not all that bright and I considered it a success if he/she raised a test score from 30% to 60%. Not passing but still a 50% improvement. I was constantly searching for ways to keep these kids engaged, interested, and in school. It was 4x the work for about an 8th of the results I got from normal and gifted classes. It was very hard to not take the drop out or imprisonment of of any student as a personal failure on my part. I know good teachers make a difference even with "at risk" students. But, I believe that parents prevent kids from becoming "at risk" in the 1st place.

    • Teaching is an extremely hard job. I wish these politicans would wake up and smell the coffee. These guys are so removed from the reality of what's going on at the "street" level. You want to keep only new teachers.

      Well new teachers are overwhelmed, they break down and cry a lot of days. They are extremely overwhelmed by the demands of the kids, administration and parents. Yes, they will jump through every hoop you hold in front of them because they don't know better and want to please. They want you to like them so much so you keep them over senior staff who know more. Then, they burn out and leave within three years. This is what typically happens and what the politicans want and like. A high turnover of cheap help. What is going on here is a disgrace.

      You don't think senior teachers know more?????????? How insulting to the profession. An average teacher holds two masters degrees and has completed yearly educational requirements for each year they have taught. But, everyone knows more then them and they are worth nothing. Fire them all.

      What a sad state.

      What we should really be doing is thanking teachers for dediciating their lives to helping others.

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