Coach The Sale EP20 - Why Authenticity Sells

Coach The Sale EP20 - Why Authenticity Sells

How authentic are you in your sales conversations? Do you feel the need to have a polished persona of business professionalism that doesn't reflect who you are in any way? Dale Dupree's on a mission to put a stop to that, and in doing so ignite your sales performance.

Dale is Founder of The Sales Rebellion, a sales coaching and training company with a mission to help sales people radically educate prospects and banish mediocre practices.

He's prolific on LinkedIn, sharing tips, highs and lows, and authentic sales stories. There's so much to learn from his approach and his mindset, and I'm so pleased Dale was able to share some of these with us.

In the episode you'll hear:

  • Why it's important for sales professionals to develop their own authentic voice
  • How being authentic improves the buyer seller relationship
  • The importance of taking risks, being courageous, and building credibility and trust
  • How to begin to manage a high need for approval
  • Two great examples of courageous, authentic, selling involving beers and doughnuts

Plus, Dale breaks down his REASON framework to radically educate and share one's narrative.

Here's to unlocking our authenticity, with The Copier Warrior, Dale Dupree.


The Sales Rebellion

Dale Dupree on LinkedIn

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Matt: Dale Dupree, welcome to the podcast. How are you?

Dale: Doing wonderful, thanks for having me on.

Matt: I'm pleased we were able to speak. A few technical glitches to start, but we're here, we're talking and I'm excited to be talking to you today.

Dale: That's all that matters.

Matt: Exactly.

Matt: Let's kick off. People may or may not know you. You're very prominent, very high profile on LinkedIn when it comes to sales. For those of the people out there who've not heard of Dale, who are you? What do you do? What's led you to where you are today with The Sales Rebellion?

Dale: Yeah, definitely. So my name's Dale Dupree. Legend has it that people call me the Copier Warrior. I actually run a company called The Sales Rebellion, but I spent 13 years in the B2B world selling the dreaded commodity copier. I spent time before that in music. My career really starts with my father though, in 1984 when he founded his own copier firm, so toner kind of just runs in my blood since I was born a year later.

Dale: And right now, really truly where I'm at and what my business walk has led me to is helping other individuals to navigate through the sea of indistinguishability that is the sales bullpen in pretty much every single sales organization across the world.

Matt: So a small task then.

Dale: Yeah, right.

Matt: We're going to talk a lot today about authenticity, because when I read your content, when I see what you do, the thing that stands out to me the most is the authenticity in what you do and your voice. So first question then, why do you think it's important for sales professionals to develop their own authentic voice?

Dale: I mean, truly it's important because people do business with those that they like and that they trust. And that's kind of a loaded statement, because there's a lot more to it than just being liked or doing things to be liked. It's about when you shake someone's hand and look them in the eye and have the desire to understand who it is behind this person, this book cover that we're looking at.

Dale: And again, in business, over the years we've kind of pushed away from that whole concept because we've developed this whole persona of business professionalism. And to me, all it is, is it's ingenuine more than anything. It's how we check out for, you know, the next six to eight hours during our workday so that we can make money and then go home. And really, I think that a lot of people are programmed because of that whole concept, instead of enjoying life fluently and living from that organic perspective or that holistic perspective, living their lives to the best of their ability and to the benefit of their community, because people deserve your authenticity more than anything. You deserve your authenticity. You were made uniquely, and you should be out spreading that gospel on a daily basis.

Matt: And part of that as well is taking risks. I think you've mentioned, in other podcasts that I've listened to, how important it is to take risks. And I guess that's harder. If you're not authentic, it's harder to take risks, would you say?

Dale: Absolutely, I would agree. And I agree with the whole concept of taking risks. And like you've probably heard me talk about, I think that without risk there is no reward. And my dad always said that nothing worth doing was easy. And so if you look at your life from that perspective, that a risk is difficult, it's not going to be something that that you walk up to and just conquer, sometimes over the course of several years in some cases as well too.

Dale: But again, we tend to steer away from risks because we think, "Well, if I just stay in my lane, I do what I'm told, maybe someday someone will reward me for that", but that's just not the truth.

Matt: Yeah, we're going to come onto taking risks a little bit more in the episode. Before we do that though, sort of circling back a little bit to the intro, what's your voice? You know, for you as Dale, the salesperson, the coach, what is it, what are the values that are most important to you as a sales professional?

Dale: So the thing is that I blur that line. I'm a Christian, I love my family, I'm a musician, I'm a creative personality. I love the concepts that I came up with for myself as a sales professional, such as my sales wanderer theory, where I created wonder inside of my walk. Instead of having to look at this rigid lifestyle that I needed to live as a salesperson, I started to look at even...

Dale: Not to deviate too much from what I'm saying, but started to even look at the potential of what money could provide for me, because there's a lot of money to be made in sales. That's why professionals typically get into it in the first place. But instead of looking at it and saying, "Oh, I could be rich", I started looking at it and saying, what could I do to develop my family, to provide safety for my wife, to create something that, as far as an opportunity is concerned, for my community, for those that are less privileged than me or that need help or that don't have guidance or that didn't have a principled, disciplined father as their role model and hero growing up. So I just kind of took a bigger look at the lifestyle of sales from the perspective of who I am truly.

Matt: And that is deep work, that takes time. That takes insight and that takes a courage as well, I think, to develop that. And also to stand by that when, essentially, you might come up against friction off the back of that.

Dale: Yeah, absolutely. I mean I was made fun of constantly in my sales walk from my competition, and professionals in other industries, in some cases, as well. But all of them in sales. Never by my buyers, never by my community.

Dale: And I always thought it was funny, because the big thing being that it's difficult. And I'm not going to say that I stood in the face of adversity. I mean people gossiping, it's no big deal, but also it hurts extremely. And for somebody that is very emotionally charged and driven like myself, it's hard to hear what other people have to say from that perspective. And so it's part of the risk that we've kind of touched on a little bit, is that people... it's not going to necessarily be popular with all groups. But the thing is, is that when you're being authentic and you're walking the line of authenticity, that the folks that see it and recognize it and reward it, are the ones that matter in the first place.

Dale: And then a lot of times, we allow the cloud of doubt, again, from the perspective of others that truly don't matter. I don't mean that they don't matter as individuals, I just mean that their look into our lives and their opinion doesn't matter, as much as our buyers and the community, again, that wants to surround themselves with us and that believes in inclusivity. Because that's the problem in sales, is that we're not inclusive enough in sales, that we look at everything from a completely different perspective of inclusiveness.

Matt: One of the things that stands out in what you're saying there ties into my own thoughts in marketing. I'm a marketer, and I've always thought of marketing as the expression of the individual. If you are conservative in your thinking, or if you don't want to take risks, then the marketing material, the marketing work that you put out into the world will be a reflection of that. And likewise, if you are bold, courageous, quirky, your marketing will speak to that.

Matt: I'm hearing that in what you're saying, in a sense, is that as you start to develop that better understanding of who you are, that's what you put out into the world. Some may not like it, but a lot of people will respect it and admire it.

Dale: Right, and truly, the majority will respect and admire your actions, even if they don't like it, right? Because you don't need someone to like you in order to do business with you, you just need to build credibility and trust more than anything.

Dale: And so there's personality types in the world that you walk away with a deal completely perplexed like, "But that guy, he said all those terrible things to me"... but then he told me that he trusted me and signed paperwork.

Dale: Again, we have to think bigger about perspective and perception. Perception is powerful, right? It's a big piece of it, when it ties into marketing. I mean the marketing stuff that I passed out, I even had times where in my walk, because of my father selling the business four years into my journey with him, during the acquisition, I got new leadership. And so when they started to see the things that I was using to market, I mean it was an issue to some extent. But the thing was, was that just like in my current walk, I was a rebel, and I respectfully declined to follow the ways of that corporate culture concept, and just said, "Look, I'm going to continue to be genuine and authentic over here and write $1 million a year, and if you have a problem with that, just let me go".

Matt: Yeah, absolutely.

Matt: So I guess something that you've alluded to in that answer is what that sense of authenticity does to the buyer seller relationship. Because I suppose there is a risk with some of what we've said, of people who have a particularly high need for approval, putting themselves out there, getting rejected and then slowly starting to lose faith in that process.

Matt: So give us a sense, one in terms of what does being authentic do to the buyer seller relationship, and two, how can you protect yourself, if you have a high need for approval, from constant rejection, if you follow that approach?

Dale: Yeah, so let me say this too, that a lot of people start to tap into their authenticity, and it doesn't get them anywhere right away, and the problem is is that just because you started doing something that you think is authentic to yourself, doesn't mean that people are suddenly just going to like you. And also, a lot of times when we sit back and we tried to develop this authentic approach, we try too hard and we end up kind of diluting the authenticity. And you know, the whole point of it is just to be that raw, unadulterated self that you are in the first place.

Dale: And so, I would encourage people listening to be very cautious about being authentic, because if you're canning that or putting it in a box, there's no authenticity there. And also, just because you're authentic doesn't mean people are suddenly going to like you. There's still going to be people on this earth that don't like you, get over it.

Dale: And the thing is is that it's just the same as when we say, you know, onto the next call, right? You have 150 dials to do this week, or for some people this day, right? And so when someone hangs up on you, do you get down on yourself and start to cry in the corner and, "They don't like me"?

Dale: No, you pick up the phone and you dial again, right? And so it's perseverance.

Dale: So authenticity though, what you will find when you do it, is that you'll start to see things different. You'll start to realize, I'm getting a different kind of no.

Dale: I remember kind of that being one of the first awakenings I had, is I was getting a different kind of no. The yes is night and day.

Dale: Imagine pulling away from an office after doing an in-person call, and you're five minutes down the road, headed to the next spot or an appointment even, and the owner of the business, who you didn't meet, calls you up and says, "Come back in. I want to meet with you right now".

Dale: When those type of things start to happen, you start to say, "Well, this would have never taken place if I hadn't have taken these risks and put myself out there and worn my heart and who I am on my sleeve". And so you start to see a more altruistic yes, and a much different no.

Dale: And so I think that really what happens is through perseverance, of being your authentic self, and again, developing that, because even if you know who you are, trust me when I say that when you start to really search and develop this part of your walk as a professional, you'll realize that there are things that you didn't know about yourself.

Dale: Case in point, I've met people that believe that they're introverts, and they've found out that they're extroverts in the process. And the opposite, right? You know, because a lot of times, again, we allow the world to kind of tell us who we are in most cases. Or we allow our groups that we fellowship with, and again, maybe those people aren't the best folks to be around. Just like the buyer that doesn't want to do business with you because they think you're a clown. Who cares? Move on. There's another one out there waiting that respects what you have going on, is much more relaxed, is looking to develop relationships, wants to have alliances that are inclusive, right? Not exclusive, not because of the way you look or the way you dressed or how you treated them, but because you were yourself and they respect that.

Matt: You've already teased my next question, which was a specific example of when having that approach has led to a positive outcome. Can you tell me more about that time when somebody called you and said come back in? If that's a specific example, I'd love to know more, or another example that you can share.

Dale: Yeah, I mean that happened to me more times than I can count, to be quite frank with you. At a certain point actually, I would just kind of sit in the parking lot and wait and see what would happen. Or even in my talk track, actually, I would do my drop, because I have a whole theory, it's my REASON theory, to radically educate and share one's narrative, it's a story methodology behind cold calling. And it works great in person. As an SDR, there's a module for it as well too. But a lot of times, it has to do with this experience and the aura that you're putting off and giving to the person that you're making the call to in the first place. And that starts with the receptionist, the non-decision maker, in most cases. It starts with treating them with a massive amount of respect, and helping them to feel empowered in the process as well too.

Dale: So sometimes I would just kind of sit back on the couch and say, "I'll wait while you go and hand this off". And you know, if they've got time after they read it and/or look at it, and/or interact with it, whatever it is specifically I was leaving, "I'll be here".

Dale: And again, it was the evolution of that, essentially. I got to a point where I could tell if I was creating enough interest in those moments in order to hang around and enjoy the fruits of that labor or that call. And then, you know, you get plenty of times as well where you don't see it going the right way, and you just say, "Cool, so I'll just leave this and if it gets to them, great". And then again, it's the perseverance mindset, right?

Dale: But I'd say probably like my favorite whenever was, it was an instant... I call it a white buffalo, the concept of it essentially being something that's very rare, and it's happened to me a few times. But this one in particular was amazing because I actually had my brother with me, and he was working for me at the time, and we dressed down. It was five o'clock, we brought blue jeans and short sleeve button downs in the car. And so we got out of our ties and our stuffy clothes, and we jumped into jeans and we put on some kicks, and we walked into the front door of a billion dollar corporation with a six-pack of beer that we had heard was this guy's favorite beer to drink.

Dale: And by the way, mind you that this corporation also was on the beach, and so we kind of themed it that way, essentially. Like we kind of said like, "Hey, y'all are closing, right?" Like, "Let's kick it on the porch with some nice salt water air and enjoy these beers".

Dale: So the guy was on a conference call in Japan, or some crazy country where the time zone was different, and with, I think it was like a group of 12 of his largest clients. We found this out afterwards. But what was amazing to find it out afterwards was that I was in shock because the young lady who went and took my card, which was me stabbing a copy machine or pulling a sword, I should say, from a copy machine in the middle of the woods out of a golden copier, and it says, "Every morning, he wakes up believing this is his job", up at the top.

Dale: She hands him that and the six pack of beer, and he's on the call, but she knew that he needed to see this, because she actually had a very good relationship with him. A lot of times, we don't assume the receptionist really knows the owner or our contact that well. Well, she had a very good relationship with him.

Dale: She came back down and said, "Give him 10 minutes, but he's actually going to have you sit with someone else until he's ready".

Dale: But again, that was what was happening. So if you can get this big picture perspective, like we had caused so much curiosity in this gentleman, that he was willing to get off this call, and also have us sit with somebody else in the meantime. And the guy pulls all of his equipment info while we're with him, because we were selling copiers, right? And shows us everything that we needed in order to earn their business from the perspective of features and advantages and benefits and everything else.

Dale: But we don't really care about that stuff anyway in my walk, and my brother and I didn't, so we just kind of sat there and nodded our heads like uh-huh (affirmative), uh-huh (affirmative), like what is it going to take for us to do business was always the concept in our minds, right?

Dale: But I'll never forget shaking that man's hand. And what was great was that he wore jeans and that same style of clothing, we had seen pictures of him, and so we matched and mirrored his persona, we gave him an experience, we drank beers at his desk looking over that view of the ocean, and that to me, it was addicting at that point. That was maybe two years into the acquisition, so it was about five to six years into my career. And I spent another seven years doing that.

Dale: So that's a fun win, it's a big win, and it's something that when people listen to stories like that, need to understand that it's what you make of it. And I'll tell you this too, that I had plenty of instances where I showed up in the same manner and thought, "Oh, well this will work anywhere". It doesn't. There's no silver bullet. But it's about perseverance. And it's about also being willing to take the risk, because if it turns out bad, you have to have the attitude and the mindset in order to make something good come of it to some capacity.

Dale: Never retreat is one of the mottoes that I live by.

Matt: I love that story. And I know another story that I'd love you to share. I heard from a very, very good SDR that you were prospected by, that you were involved in going to offices with donuts as well. Did you used to do that? Show up offices with donuts and coffee?

Matt: You've got to tell me this story. I love this.

Dale: Yeah, so the donuts. There's actually no donuts in the donut box. There's two sets, basically. So we would essentially pre-manufacture a donut box that had crumbs in it, and we would have on the top of the box when you opened it, so you're looking down at this empty box and then up at the top it says, "Sorry, I ate all of these waiting for you to get back to me...", with three dots at the end.

Dale: And it's for the aggressive buyer. It's for the dominant personality. It's for the driver, right? And we knew that that was the personality of the person that we were going to. And we always did.

Dale: Again, sometimes it's a risk, because you might have a perception and it might be false, so you have to be careful about those things. But again, everybody kind of gets a kick out of that drop. And then there was a second bag of donuts, basically, that we would hand to the receptionist and say, "These are for you". So we would spoil the office, and then, again, we would get the attention of our buyer.

Dale: But we would joke, sometimes on the coffee, we would put a sign, you know where it would say like decaf or regular, we'd put a little sign that said, "Old and stale", "Best heated up", you know, things like that. But again, we just did things that were different, non-traditional. They were non-confrontational too, because a lot of times a cold call to the person on the other end is confrontational. It's this mindset of they're trying to accommodate what it is that you do for a living, and the fact that you're trying to support a lifestyle and a family. And people are cognizant of those things, trust me. But when you start telling someone, "Hey, I need to meet with you", that's what they hear when you ask for 15 minutes on their calendar, right? These are pieces of the puzzle that you have to look at from the psychological standpoint of just the basics of interaction and the way that the brain works in the first place.

Dale: But being able to give people an experience, and then also to say like, "Hey, you don't have to see us. We'll go and we'll move on. We'll go to the next". If you don't think there's any synergy here, any impact that we can create, then we're not interested either. But we'll shake hands and part friends, if that's the case, because we want the best for you, just as we want the best for ourselves, and the community that we're creating inside of the culture that we're putting forth.

Dale: So if you have that attitude, then you'll be looking out for the best interest of your buyer at all times, and it will bleed into your talk track, into your persona, into your authenticity.

Matt: I love it, I love it. And one of the things, I think there is a risk of when people listen to this, is that perhaps they're not in a position where they can do some of those really risky, those bolder moves, but what I want people to take away from what you've just said is the mentality underneath it. Not necessarily the specifics of what you did and trying to replicate that, but the mentality. And it's a hustler mentality. It's sort of a mentality of what do I need to do to stand out, but in a non-confrontational way. That's what I'm hearing.

Dale: Right, absolutely. You know, because you need to be bold. I love the quote by Teddy Roosevelt, I actually have a T-shirt that says it, and it's inside of a longer quote but, "Dare mighty things". If you can continually keep that mindset, and the mindset not to... again, you're not daring mighty things because you're trying to get in someone's face and force them to sign paperwork and get a big fat commission check. You're daring mighty things on behalf of the community that you're looking to represent.

Matt: Love it, love it, and that's a nice segue into the next topic that I wanted to talk about with you.

Matt: You've mentioned the REASON framework, I want to come to that towards the end of the episode. Where I want to go to next though is LinkedIn, with a lot of people listening to the show, a lot of people reach out to me on LinkedIn, give me feedback on the show, which I love by the way, what I want to do is just talk about how you use LinkedIn, because you are prolific on that platform. Talk me through your thought process about how visible you are on LinkedIn.

Dale: Yeah, I think that being visible in general is extremely important. I mirrored my same approach to my marketplace and the community in which I served, onto my LinkedIn presence. So people would ask me constantly, "How do you follow up with folks?"

Dale: I have a theory called the living pipeline, and my LinkedIn game, I actually have a whole strategy on social from Snapchat... crazy, right? From Snapchat to Instagram to Facebook. But again, there's things about those platforms that most folks don't understand and don't look at from a deeper perspective.

Dale: Right now, if you got on Snapchat, there's a new feature. They've always had geo locations, but now there's a new feature where you can literally set yourself inside of a map and make your story public. So we just had our big rebellion rally, I stuck it in Snapchat, stuck it in there, and it got over, I think 6 or 7000 views, organically, on Snapchat!

Dale: Which again, it's all about creating awareness, is the concept. And so LinkedIn, it's an awareness building tool. And so make sure your profile looks amazing, so when someone clicks on it, they see a nuanced perspective of the person that they just read content from, that they see someone that cares, someone that wants you, the viewer, to come and experience what it is that they're putting out every day through content, as well too.

Dale: I also believe in creating content daily. There's some people that can't do it, and that's totally fine. And if you can't do it, adapt to what works for you, but never outsource it. I mean, some people do. Look, and I respect everybody and their views and their ways as to how they use social, but let me just tell you that somebody else cannot create the authenticity and the genuine outlook that you have on your expertise in the first place.

Dale: So for me, it was all about, in the beginning stages, about two years ago... it's actually two years today. It's August 1st, look at that.

Dale: So two years ago today, I sat down with a gentleman named James Carbary, who runs a company Called Sweet Fish Media, they host a podcast called B2B Growth. And he told me that I had something that he believed in, and then he encouraged me from there to start telling these stories more often on LinkedIn instead of posting, you know, once a month or once every couple of weeks. And so I did.

Dale: In 2017, August 1st, I committed that day and I've never stopped. And really for me, again, it's about this bigger picture of building awareness and community, but let me tell you this, my friend, that I've had The Sales Rebellion for six months now, as of today as well too, today's our six month anniversary. And we have not made one cold call as an organization to sell anything to anyone. It has been 100% inbound through my social channels, all social channels as well too.

Matt: Well, I was going to talk about the impact, and I think you've pretty much laid it out right there. I don't think we need to go into any more detail. That's phenomenal.

Matt: One of the things I've heard you talk about is about intention. When it comes to posting, it's about having a really clear intention. I think sometimes on social, there is a tendency for people to just vomit material out there hoping that it will get some traction. Where does intention fit in your strategy on how you post content?

Dale: Yeah, so we actually have five core values of personal branding, and also five core values around the principles around what it is that you need to be doing on a daily basis when you look at things like your advertising arms, such as social media, direct mail, email, phone call, whatever it is. We kind of help people to look at everything from a bigger picture perspective, and help salespeople to understand that marketing is your friend and not your enemy. And it's also not a separate department, it should be inclusive to your walk as well too, and so if you have a marketing department and a sales department, that should be the best friend at the office. They're the people that are enabling others to see you on a daily basis and vice versa, to a degree as well.

Dale: So when it comes to intentionality, it is the number one principle inside of the personal brand, my personal brand theories that The Sales Rebellion teaches, and also when it comes to outreach methods in general. With social media, it has to be intentional, your posts, all of them. You need to not look at how can I intentionally prop myself up, either. You need to look at how can I intentionally cause others to look at things more curiously from the perspective of enabling them. Curiosity, in the world of psychology, there's a lot of debate about it and there's not really a conclusive study, but the ones that I know of and that I've nerded out on... my wife, by the way, is a neuropsychometrist, a Master's in psychology, and a minor in criminal psychology.

Dale: And I've known her since we were 17. We dated, got married, and have been together ever since. I lived in that world with her, because it helped my sales walk. And so I'll tell you that the study of curiosity shows that people that cannot tap into that part of their brain, cannot make a decision. And so inconclusively, because nobody's really concluded this, but to me conclusively what that says is that we make decisions based around emotion and curiosity toward the subject. So having that outlook is extremely important. And so being intentional about causing that in everybody that looks from the outside in, it's a big subject.

Dale: It's okay to brag every once in awhile about your achievements and your successes, but do it in a way that honors the community. Do it in a way that honors those that have gotten you to the place where you are to begin with. And do the same thing with your products and services. Don't try to tell people how they're going to change their lives and make things so much better for them, but tell the stories of those who have been successful by tapping into that piece as well too. So that whole concept of pain versus pleasure, but really curiosity is both. And so it's a hybrid, and that's why it's so effective and why I had so much success in my walk.

Matt: There is a huge amount of value in what you've just shared. I agree with so much of what you've said. I think, as a marketer, one of the things I want to try and do all the time is generate that curiosity, spark that curiosity, and stories are a great way to do that. And I think you are testament to that, in terms of how you set up those posts, in terms of the content and the value that you then deliver off the back of it. I think there's a master class just in following you and what you do in terms of getting that attention, but in the right way for the right reasons, so I really appreciate the share. I think there's huge value in what you've just shared.

Matt: A couple of minutes left. I want to just pivot, if we can, towards the framework that you very, very briefly touched on earlier, the REASON framework, because I know there are people who are listening to this, they're cold calling, they're making calls. I know it's a program, it's a training that you offer, but can you just give us a bit of a snapshot, a bit of an overview of the REASON framework that you put out?

Dale: Yeah, the long form breakdown is that RE stands for radically educate. The concept of it is that is essentially the introduction, so whether or not... if you're an SDR, you have to kind of have a hybrid of these things. Or not, because I believe that as an SDR, you can actually also go out of your way and make yourself vulnerable and do the action that's necessary just the same as somebody that's selling down the road.

Dale: I have an SDR, he's kind of a hybrid. So he's in Florida, and he was doing outreach to Alabama. He was using the same model and mind frame that we teach through radically educating the prospect, he mailed out his first touch pieces, which is what we kind of highlight inside of that radical education piece.

Dale: And there's a hundred different ways to do this, right? We have so many inside of our back pocket, but what we typically start with are these four letters. We have one called the crumpled letter, one called the coffee stained letter, one called the letter traveled round the world, and one called the pre-burnt letter.

Dale: And the idea and the concept of it is that we're speaking to our buyer about how sales brochures and white papers and marketing is typically garbage, and it goes right into it. So you could probably apply that statement to why we pre-crumple a letter, or why we pre-burn a letter, things like that. So again, the concept though of the SDR is, is that they... not to deviate too much here, and talk too much about an SDR, but a lot of them listen to these podcasts, and so I like to make sure that I'm speaking to them. They need some love.

Dale: And so send the letter in the mail. Do it audaciously though, because again, if it shows up in the mail and it's from somebody or something they don't know, then it's trash. It's the same concept of why we're sending it in the first place, right? So send a neon envelope, or you know, put it in an Amazon box. Everybody loves Amazon, right? But again, get the letter to somebody before you make the call.

Dale: And that's where the long form portion of it starts. A stands for attention, S is for story, O is for outline, and N is nuanced. And essentially, the N at the end of our theory here, is actually the sea that the entire REASON theory swims in, right? It's the captain of the ship.

Dale: How do we nuance this approach? How do we cause it to be from point a to point Z, the full Monty. And not just the full Monty, but the experience that they deserve to have in the first place. And so how do we crack the code, cause curiosity, become a pattern interrupt in the process, and get someone to chuckle and say, "You know what? Out of the 10,000 salespeople that have called me in my lifetime as a C-level executive, I like this guy or this girl. I like this method. I enjoyed this", right? That's the concept. Even if they pick up the phone and tell you they're not interested.

Dale: But we walk reps through on how to grab attention from there, and how to tell the story of why it is they're calling from there, and how to create an outline that is directed toward the business relationship, and what we're trying to accomplish with them. And then again, how to nuance it. So that's kind of the full breakdown of it, in a nutshell.

Matt: So that's another segue into how people can find out more about that framework and the work that you do. You've been extremely generous with your time and your insights, Dale. So give everybody an overview of where they can find out more about you and what you do and we'll make sure that they see where to go to find out more.

Dale: Yep. Anybody can check out, or just click the Learn tab while you're there. You'll find we have two pieces of curriculum that are hosted currently. We've got five more coming, four more coming immediately, and then we'll continue to build on these things. These are all, again, theories and concepts that I've created over the course of 13 years of being in the industry and practicing them myself, and now we're just putting them to paper and creating courses out of them.

Dale: So the other places to find me are LinkedIn, you can find me on Instagram or Twitter or Facebook, @salesrebellion. LinkedIn is /in/copierwarrior. Anything Sales Rebellion anywhere. Just Google Sales Rebellion, I promise you'll find me.

Matt: And I'm going to give a shout out to your LinkedIn profile, I think that's where people should go. If they do nothing else off the back of this episode, they should follow you on LinkedIn, look at what you're putting out, start to pay attention, not just to the content, but the structure and the tempo, and they will start to uncover some real insights there in terms of what they should be sharing and how often they should be sharing material with their audience.

Matt: So Dale, I want to say thank you once again, huge amount of value, really appreciate your time, and I hope you have a great day.

Dale: Thanks man, I appreciate you having me on.

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