Monday, May 25, 2015

Game of Thrones: Season 5 Episode 7 - The Gift (Discussion)

Hello friends and Happy Memorial Day!  Like most Americans, I took advantage of the holiday weekend and spent time with family and friends.  Unfortunately, I do not have time to do a full recap for this episode.  But, I definitely think we'll have stuff to discuss in the comments at some point.  So, feel free to dive right in and add your thoughts! 

I mentioned this on the last recap, but I will also be out of town next weekend and it's not looking likely for a recap  next week either.  But, be assured that I will plan on getting something written for the final 2 episodes of the season! 

Sorry for the bad timing and I thank you for understanding.  See you in the comments!

UPDATE: I've added my thoughts on the episode in the first 2 comments.

EW Links:


Mike V. said...

Hello everyone, hope you had a great Memorial Day weekend! I ended up watching Game of Thrones VERY late on Sunday night (i.e. really Monday morning at 2:30 am) And of course it just happened to be the longest episode of the season yet! lol I'm pretty sure I stayed awake for its entirety but I may have to rematch anyway. The problem is, I'm heading out of town after work today so I may not really have time for it! (also a reminder I won't have time for a recap next week either) Anyway, from what I remember, I loved the episode! And I linked to the EW interviews and recaps in the posting. From the general comments it seems like people are happy with the general direction the show is heading contrary to last week. So here's a brief thought on the storylines covered and book differences.

The Wall
- RIP Maester Aemon. This happened in the books too and he referred to his brother EGG (Aegon Targaryan) fact, George R. R. Martin has a series of short stories about the tales of Dunk and Egg that take place 100 years before The Song of Ice and Fire. I believe this Egg is the same, but I could be wrong. Aemon's death in the books took place on a journey that Sam, Gilly and he went on. I can't say where they were going in case they actually do go there. It has been referenced in the show so we'll see.
- Sam and Gilly also "did the deed" on this journey and there was no "attempted rape" that the show keeps leaning on! There was a case of multiple babies and Gilly taking Mance Rayder's baby south instead of her own to hide it and she was all emotional and she threw herself on Sam. (I think??) But, the same concept...they did the deed.
- The animosity towards Jon Snow and his decisions is the same from book to screen...but this whole Hardhome storyline was not featured "ON PAGE" nor was Jon leading the attack. But, I have a feeling it will be a season capping story for Jon's arc and the same concept can play out there. We'll see.

- As we predicted, Sansa's abuse didn't stop on their wedding night. Now she even has the bruises to go with it. But, it certainly was a turning point for Theon. He didn't succeed with his mission to light the candle and Sansa got some mental abuse, but the wheels are certainly turning. RIP "North Remembers" lady. Ouch!

Stannis Marching South
- WINTER IS COMING!!! This is very much the same concept in the books. They are marching south, but the weather is getting worse.
- However, Mellisandre stayed north at the wall in the books with Jon Snow. She also recommending sacrificing Mance Rayder's baby (which is why Jon sent the baby south in exchange for Gilly's baby...ouch! I forget if that baby was sacrificed). A lot of people had been theorizing that Shireen would be used as a plot point instead of Mance's baby...and they were certainly correct in thinking so. But, there was that well placed scene showing Stannis's love for his child and it validates his refusal in the scene in this episode. We'll see where it goes!

Mike V. said...

King's Landing
- Finally Cersei is arrested! This whole storyline happened totally differently in the books but the end result is the same...Cersei and Margaery are arrested. Where it goes from here? We shall see! But there are 2 key scenes book readers are waiting for.

- Bronn's cut certainly did have poison in it as we discussed...but it was still a really bizarre scene with the sand snakes....and he drank the antidote when he told her she's the most beautiful dornish woman he's ever seen? At least we got the punchline of the song "i tasted the dornish man's wife" that he started singing last week. That song is in the books. lol
- And of course Jaime and Myrcella have a heart to heart about her not wanting to leave and how Uncle Jaime shouldn't have a say because he's never been around...making him feel like the worst father ever.

MEEREEN (outskirts??)
- Again, in a total Gladiator rip off they were fighting in the minor leagues before they get to ROME! Jorah finds out Dany is out there and is appalled by all of the blood and death. Jorah runs out with his Maximus mask on and knocks out all that remains. He removes his helmet....Dany is disgusted but then he offers his gift. What's up with the dude freeing Tyrion?? Anyway, Tyrion at last comes face to face with Dany!!! And things are about to get VERY INTERESTING!!!!!
- Book fans are surprisingly super excited about this pairing. (maybe TV fans too).....The crazy thing is this is the BIGGEST thing to happen on the show that has NEVER happened in the books. Tyrion and Jorah are still slaves on the outskirts of Meereen in the book when ADWD ends. But in episode 7 of season 5, Tyrion and Dany have come face to face!

The interview with the producers make it very clear that they're on a more aggressive schedule than the books and it felt like the right time. I think most book fans had a feeling this was going to happen based on the cover art advertising the season (Tyrion on a boat looking at Drogon). And I think the consensus is..."it feels right to do this now". We are getting very close to being caught up with the books and this clearly indicates that they intend to do just that and surpass them this season. I'm sure George is working hard on getting Winds of Winter out before next season and I'm going to say with 80% certainty that he'll reveal his big "reveal" that everyone has been theorizing in that book to try and get there before the show does. lol

But, it seems clear to me that the show and the books will thematically be the same heading towards the end, but scene to scene may be totally different.

We'll see what happens! Hope you enjoyed this mini recap!

Anonymous said...

Yea, the Dany meets Tyrion thing had to be this or the next ep from my way of thinking. And I am glad they didn't drag out this slavery stuff. Wish they weren't dragging out the Sansa junk. And there is a great comparison of why the Sansa/Ramsay stuff stinks and the Tyrion/Jorah stuff didn't. Neither is fun to watch with slavery and rape. So, they decided to short cut the slavery stuff and everyone is applauding. For the same reason many to most hate the rape stuff with Sansa. Theon and the skinned lady was predictable. Once I saw her having to plead with him, I said this is NOT payoff happening for the rape scene. I actually fast forwarded through parts of Winterfell c*(p.

Bronn getting antidote was really surprising. I really did expect him to die. I would hate to loose him from the show. Funny how the sisters see things so differently. Why would she save Bronn?? LOL on Jaime being an absentee Dad. Seriously, Robert was the absentee Dad. Sometimes I think Jaime and Cersei should go full on Targeryen. Maybe Dany and ?? will--lol. There's really almost nothing happening there worth watching. I mean, it's very predictable. Somebody rescues the weak lady in distress,etc, etc boring. Now if Stannis gets there, then things will get interesting. But, they're making it like he's going to get there so weakened that his force will have great difficulty in beating the Bolton force. Note the use of the word "force"--lol.

So, Sam has no more protectors at CB. Could that be setting up something? I was disappointed Aemon didn't nominate Sam for Maester.

Tormund and JOn on their way. Funny how almost no one wants this alliance. I bet they will when the white walkers come--lol.

Poor Stannis. His problem is he's almost too nice to win. He needs to find another love interest too. It's getting very boring for him to want the red woman and her turning him down--makes him look too weak.

I like the way they captured Cersei, that whole series of scenes was great. She didn't see it coming, until Lancel walks in. I was wondering how long that would take. OF course it ties into the first part of the season when she just dismissed Lancel and his new religion. I wonder who she'll reach out to now. Petyr, Qyborn, Jaime, other??

I just can't see Shireen being sacrificed.

So, any bets if Dany's upset about slavery? I mean she was told the fighting pits being opened up was for free men. That slavery wouldn't be happening. How's Hizdar going to handle this when she finds out?

Only 3 eps left.


Mike V. said...

I dunno...I think Maximus as a slave striving to get free and have his vengeance made for a great movie! and he was a slave for the majority of it. I think most people are applauding the fact that Dany and Tyrion have come face to face. It's a pivotal moment in the story. This vs. people not caring all too much about the Bolton storyline anyway and to drag Sansa into this dark/dreary storyline makes it even worse. But I still think it's compelling television.

You can't have it both don't want Sansa to be a victim. This is her taking action and not being a victim. And it's also activating Theon for what he might eventually do. There will be payoff. I'm sure whatever the payoff is won't justify it for everyone, but there will be payoff.

The Dorne storyline - there really isn't much redemption in it or justification for it. It's pretty rough. lol

Aemon did tell Gilly to head South so maybe they're setting something up there. Maybe it'll be a season 6 story.

Stannis - I haven't looked too much into it. Story is sufficient for me. Yeah, I don't know about Shireen....I think there will at least be an attempt. Maybe this is where Brienne will come in. She'll save Shireen instead of Sansa who may save herself. (with Theon's help possibly) ALL SPECULATION, no SPOILERS! lol

Dany - Not sure if she was upset about the slavery or more the brutality of the fighting pits. But the very fact Tyrion was in chains is a dead give away. lol That's the last thing I'm worried about though. I just want to see Dany and Tyrion have a conversation!

3 eps and 2 recaps! lol

****BOOK STUFF*****

Did Aemon nominate him him in the books? I thought that was all Jon's idea to send him south.

MJ said...

I have already read that in the books Dany and Tyrion have not yet met. Like five times. LOL . Some places you go to read are just obsessed with the differences - some of these peop0le need to let this stuff go. When Melisandre says Stannis had to sacrifice di she actually mean his daughters life ? I'm bored with Melisandre - she's pretty much admitted that she has no magic or power and just uses tricks. You guys called it with the sandsnake poising her blade - made sense since her dad did the same thing. But then why give him the cure ? A few episodes back I think one of you mentioned that when Dany's advisor died it was like the end of the old guard - guess that was true since now Eamon is dead too. Had to laugh - Sam coming to Gilly's rescue is then rescued by Gilly - and Ghost of course. I don't think I'd realized that Sam and Gilly had not had sex. Makes sense though since he made those vows. He sure didn't try to stop her though. And really Sansa ? You thought you could confide in Theon and he wouldn't tell Ramsey ? Seeing those bruises up and down her arms was not pleasant. If all they were going to do is show Brienne standing there then why have her in this episode at all ? Just saying. Oh Cersei - we all knew this was coming. LOL This religion does not seem to forgive so for Lancel to admit knowing Cersei killed robert and to admit to sleeping with her he is basicly making himself guilty as well.

Mike V. said...

Well Mellisandre did create that shadow baby that killed Renly...that certainly wasn't a trick! lol

The Dorne thing is a mess...i can't even attempt to answer your perplexing question that we all were asking! lol

Sansa telling Theon...Theon went to the tower to light the candle. He didn't go to tell Ramsay...Ramsay just happened to be there and then he had no choice. At least that's how I interpreted it.

Brienne - They showed her to remind us she was there and that her being there will play out eventually. lol

Cersei - Yep...we all knew it was coming...but while all that is true..having 3 children of incest surely is an issue with the Faith Militant as well. There just has been no public confirmation that it actually is true!

Anonymous said...

Yea, but we already know to a disghusting amount that Brienne is there, waiting for her passion to call her--lol. We don't need to see yet another wasted bit of time that could be better spent on other storylines, like maybe clearing up the Dorne junk or more Dany/Tyrion-lol.

I took it as Theon was going to betray Sansa, but it was weak either way. Yea, Sansa pleading with Theon was some of her trying to help herself. But it was a very weak idea. I mean why didn't she call the maid who could have easily done it. That would have worked.
But WAIT there's a problem with a simple solution that works here. It doesn't have enough drama and could get Ramsay into trouble too early for our show runners. NO, they want more Sansa misery. Just Stupid!

Good to know about Aemon telling Sam about going South, I didn't hear it.

WAIT, let's get real here!, YOu're comparing Russell Crowe in gladiator with all the great production and stars to a Jorah/Tyrion(who is not nearly as compelling this year) slave story. NO way they're comparable as far as compelling. And you've just proven my point--everyone is excited about seeing Dany meeting Tyrion. In essence that means the slave story is OVER as well. It could easily be that way with Sansa, so that her story becomes great with her growth--that too is what people want to see. Just like they want to see Tyrion meeting Dany. It is true that the Tyrion/Jorah slave stuff is not as bad as the Sansa rape stuff. But, that has a lot to do with the actors.

*****************Book Stuff*************

I don't recall in the books how Sam got nominated. But for the TV show that death bed scene would have been great for it to have happened.


Anonymous said...

********************888book stuff**********************

I'm at a loss for what Jamie is going to be doing now. As well as Bronn. I mean I don't see Jamie coming back to help Cersei. His arc needs something more to stay on the TV screen but there really isn't anything from the books to guide us here.

What does he have that Martell wants? It's interesting that the Sand Snakes and Bronn are in jail and yet Jaimee is free. What has he done to earn special privelage other than being Myrcella's Uncle?

I think Dany's response to people in chains(slavery) is going to be very important for the TV show. I mean if takes her in a particular direction that adds time to the Mereen storyline.


Mike V. said...

Aemon told GILLY not Sam (I think) but it did happen.

I think I may have been a little sleepy on the Theon/Sansa stuff...I guess he didn't go in that tower.

I'm not comparing the production quality nor acting abilities...just specifically the STORYLINE of a slave trying to gain power through battle. And you know what? I think MAYBE we had about 5 minutes of them being slaves, so you can't even say they did it to death. People are excited about Dany meeting Tyrion because we've had 5 YEARS of Dany's story barely attaching to the rest of the tale. 5 BOOKS of the same (with no meeting in sight yet...though I feel it might be soon into book 6). It has nothing to do with people being tired of a slavery storyline.

Unless you're talking about Dany freeing the slaves which has been pretty much her goal since season 1. She still has to do something in Meereen before she tries leaving. I don't think it's as simple as her grabbing her dragons and leaving with Tyrion! But, who knows? And I'd argue that Peter Dinklage could probably hold his own with Russell Crowe. lol

Sam didn't get nominated. Jon pretty much just knew Sam was the best candidate for the job. Aemon was dying, so he asked Sam to take him, Gilly and Mance's baby son with him to the Oldtowne. True on TV death bed scene. Though him quoting the books "i dreamed i was young" was pretty good too.

Jaime - I heard suggestions maybe he'll head East too. And fill in the role of Quinten Martell (SP) for who is free and who isn't? I have no idea. None of it makes a lick of sense!

You know...there's nothing saying Lady Stonehart may not show up in Winterfell either. lol I mean probably not....but it would be pretty crazy!
My guess is the Meereen storyline will still go through the end of the season, but maybe not after that. I even think episode 9 is called "The Dance with Dragons"...which I assume will be at the main fighting pit...and will end with Dany climbing on board of Drogon.

Anonymous said...


Yea, I can see with that title, Dany flying off in Ep9(and ep9 has had some killer endings really in other seasons). Well, we have one ep between now and then. And we believe Mereen will become very sick and there will be some pit fighting and Drogon rescuing Dany. I suspect Ep 8 will have her, Tyrion and Jorah setting the stage for how they will interact with each other going at least somewhat forward. I could easily see her condemning Jorah and then after she leaves in the chaos Tyrion freeing Jorah or something like that.

AND/OR if Jaime goes to Mereen as a Quentyn stand in, I guess he could get barbecued. But more likely, he could somehow get involved with freeing Tyrion after Dany flies away.

I love your idea of Lady Stoneheart saving Sansa. But, I think it's going to be Brienne and I"m going to totally hate it for so many reasons.

I think the Dorne stuff is better to watch than the Winterfell stuff right now.


Mike V. said...


Totally disagree with Dorne stuff being better than Winterfell. I don't think we'll see LS, but I do like the idea of Brienne getting tangled up with Stannis and saving Shireen while Sansa and Theon escape Winterfell.

I don't think there will be enough time for Jaime to make it over to Meereen in this season unless they want to be really unrealistic of travel times! lol

Anonymous said...

LOL, yea I thought you'd disagree about Dorne vs Winterfell. Keep in mind, I'm not saying I like the Dorne stuff. Jaime and Bronn can act a LOT better than Sansa and Ramsay and anyone else over there, especially Brienne.

Now if Ramsay killed Brienne, then that would be some kind of payoff, atleast it would be excitingly unexpected. And then after that Theon knock of Ramsay.

The ugly truth is and I hate to say this, these sometime idiot show runners want a violent evil adversary at play attacking a "good" person that the audience likes.
So, if Ramsay is taken out, I don't know who'd take his place because with only 3 eps left no one has been set up with such evil doings.

Therefore, I will speculate that Ramsay lives through the season. Unless you can think of someone who is as vile.


Mike V. said...

Unfortunately you're probably right but there are other ways to strike a blow to the boltons. We'll just have to wait and see.

****book speculation******

One thing that might not be off the table is a surprise appearance by the hound. We know he probably is still alive in the books and he does have a soft spot for Sansa. Granted that would be rescuing Sansa which diminishes her character arc. But it certainly would be applause worthy! Lol

Anonymous said...

I love how you come up with great ideas that would make the show awesome!

I've been thinking about Jaime and what he's up to next. With 3 eps left he could make it to Mereen and meet up with Tyrion since he really only needs 1 ep to make the travel. I just can't figure out what he's going to do in Dorne. He'd have to take Myrcella against her will and I don't know if that makes sense.

Here's a random thought on the Sansa stuff. What if Arya comes back to kill Ramsay? It's not likely but that would be great.

Jorah having greyscale will likely impact Mereen in the next couple of eps. It's going to be hard to explain how a lot of people would get it if Tyrion doesn't get greyscale.


MJ said...

Good point about shadow killer - but she is the one who said she tricks people. LOL

Besides the obvious religous issue with the incest it also means that the last 2 Kings had no rights to the throne. And she helped kill the prior King to that.

Anonymous said...

MJ, good point on the last two Kings not being true heirs.

I have always found Melissandre to be some hype with enough real to cause confusion. The flaming sword ceremony is an example of fake too. The leach stuff was not real as far as I could tell. I mean start a fire and throw some powder at it and see what happens.

But, the stuff with the band of brothers with them coming back alive was real. So, magic exists in the realm-lol.


Mike V. said...

Hello from Tennessee! I'm out of town visiting the in-laws but "working from home" today. So, I can actually post a bit. lol

Since it's all speculation and doesn't happen in the books I guess it's safe to talk about in the open about Jaime. Though I really don't think 3 episodes is a realistic trip to Meereen, unless you're flying or something. Maybe Drogon crosses the sea and picks him up?? lol Unless he finds out that Tyrion is over there I don't see any motivation for him to cross the narrow sea. Though, that map in the intro does make it seem like Dorne and Slavers Bay are actually very close. I'm going to have to consult a map!

I like the idea of Arya killing Ramsay. If he knew what was happening, he'd totally be on her list. But yeah, I agree not likely right now. Though, if Ramsay stays alive for awhile, you never know.

The greyscale definitely needs to come into play before the end of the season I agree. I don't understand why Tyrion would have to get it though (again..he never got it in the books (yet) either).

@MJ - I just don't know how the shadow killer could be a trick! lol And definitely good points about the Kings. Granted, some would argue Robert had no real claim to the throne either. And some would argue the Targaryans don't either because they took it from someone else as well. It's all about who you support! But when it's the FAITH that you support, they definitely don't like what's going on with that Lannister clan.

"Band of Brothers" - lol Now I have the tune from the HBO miniseries stuck in my head. You mean the Brothers without Banners! lol But yes, magic is certainly alive and real but the Red Woman also acknowledged to Thoros of Myr that she couldn't believe he was able to raise the dead. She has not been able to do that. I don't know if she's a fraud in the books either....she did look into the fires and said something prophetic about someone and it seems like it could be true.

But yea...a lot of what she's taken claim to is just coincidence. (i.e. the leeches)

Anonymous said...

Well, Arya crossed the sea with a much greater distance in 2 eps. So, yea 1 ep should be no problem for Jaime, besides it's TV--lol. I don't see him staying in Dorne into next season so I'm just speculating on where he'll go. I don't see him going back to KL for Cersei or any reason. Unless it's to deal with the high septon for some reason.

LOL on Band of Brothers, I do sometimes get my names mixed up. I think what's real and what's not with Melissandre is intentionally a question by GRRM. Certainly Stannis being the Lightbringer as she said a few seasons ago is questioned by many characters in the show. One or more were killed if you recall.

If you study who's the rightful king throughout the history of the world and who owns what--It's ALWAYS been disputed. Look at what we did to the Indians here. Look at what the US did to the land owners given ownership by France and Spain, etc. Their lands were just coopted/nationalized. Basically as I've studied history it comes down to ONE thing. Wars matter and those with the most might and will--win. Look at what we did in taking over Hawaii, I could go on and on. I am part Cherokee, almost too small to count though.

This subject comes into play big time as the Vikings move into Europe. BTW, Columbus did not find any land that is now the US mainland. I'm pretty sure it was Ponce De Leon at St. Augustine, FL. Of course back in the 1400s timeframe the coast line was a lot further inland in certain low lying areas, ie a LOT of the land we now have as beach front was under lots of water.


Mike V. said...

Arya - I Always got the impression that Braavos was a little closer to travel to than the places Dany is. I really am going to look at a map after posting this. She was in the riverlands though and had to go North East. But it also was BETWEEN seasons..and Tyrion travelled across the sea too. You get the sense that there was a passage of time...and not so much from episode 8 to 10 while other storylines are not progressing time as quickly.

I think even Mellisandre questions if Stannis is truly the right person when she eventually gets to the wall (in the books). It's not as clear in the show.

Oh I get it...and it was sort of my point with Kings and rights and all of that. It depends on whose side your on with who is the "rightful" king. That's basically the whole concept behind the show. lol Everyone thinks they have a right to the throne. Hence the GAME!

Mike V. said...

Interactive map. Arya was in the Vale which is pretty close to Braavos actually. Sunspear is relatively close to Essos, but it's a decent ride to slaver's bay. Could happen though!

Anonymous said...

Finally, a great ep.

So, looks like Jamie's not going to Essos, still don't know what he's doing. Cersei is waiting for him.

I'm saying the sword Jon used to kill the Walker is Valyrian steel. Given the dragon glass comes from the old Targeryan city too. OH NO, that means Brienne will be a heroine in battling the Walkers, ugh. Hopefully she'll be killed and Ramsay will take her sword--lol.

Speaking of Ramsay, any bets on his mission taking out Stannis?

3 huge things yet to come.