Monday, March 11, 2013

Is This the End of the New Order?

There was some disappointment when the March 1st doomsday did not occur, and when Mine Teck's deadline expired without event, and when the rebel Tornado fleet failed to materialize. But these non-events were by no means the only ones we have(n't) seen.

Throughout the New Order's campaigns, those who resist us have expressed a consistent faith that someone else will rise up to stop us.

Frequently, the rebel miners themselves claim that they'll do the job.

Sometimes they set specific deadlines, like Mine Teck's or blood valentine's. Otherwise, the day of reckoning is unscheduled. Maybe the fear of the unknown will make the New Order lose its nerve?

Olof Alabel is the classic example of a miner who is shocked and outraged when he learns of the New Order's activities in an otherwise peaceful highsec.

There are so many people who make their living in highsec. Surely they will do something about the New Order?

Few organizations in EVE have as many enemies as the New Order. The sheer number of them should guarantee some kind of counter-attack.

Perhaps this is an example of diffusion of responsibility--the more people who are angry at the New Order, the less likely there will be a response.

Still, the miners make so many promises about retribution. Indeed, they thought the Retribution expansion would destroy the New Order.

Rebel threats can be quite specific: The Tornadoes are 24 jumps away, I have nine friends, etc. But specificity doesn't lead to action--only to more specific, concrete disappointments.

The CODE. alliance welcomes war. Sometimes people do wardec the alliance, but we receive more threats of wars than actual wars.

Always vengeance tomorrow, never vengeance today.

Lacking the ability to attack us directly, some rebels threaten to strike the soft underbelly of the New Order, our dear permit-holders.

But the permit-holding miners of highsec remain safe and sound, undisturbed by rebel threats.

The New Order and the various resistance groups across highsec could not be more different. The New Order has a Code; the rebels believe in nothing. The New Order takes action; the rebels are AFK. Faced with such enemies, can anyone dispute that the New Order deserves to take over highsec?


  1. You just can't kill an idea.

    1. by the same logic the new order can't kill the idea that High Sec should be safe to the afk miners.

    2. which means that the afk miners will continue to neglect to tank their ships...sound like a benefit to the New Order.

    3. @Anonymous, March 12, 2013 at 12:58 AM: "High Sec should be safe" is where your argument fails, and CCP has concurred with that assessment - REPEATEDLY.

  2. John Cadenza is a fan of the movie Tropic Thunder i see.
    It's from a wonderfull scene with Tom Cruise.

  3. I love how Gangsta NIP almost makes it into active Eve play. The rebel miners rising up to gank the permit holders would be emergent and active play (and hysterical). Just what the code seeks. I say "almost" because instead of doing it himself, he wants to hire it done. I presume with bot-aspirant generated mining ISK.

  4. Let's face facts here, these enemies of the New Order are carebears for the most part. They have spent most of their skill points in mining ships, upgrading them, and other non-combat skills except for the most basic. This means that they would need alts not dedicated to mining to become fighters, which is doubtful they would do. On the other hand, I've seen chat logs on this blog that point to them hiring mercenaries, but my guess is they have only been getting scammed by aforementioned mercs. This would probably lead to the raging in local, as they feel frustrated by their perceived inability to respond, or get CCP to ban or punish the New Order.

    ---Alistair Drake

    1. Correction: This 'probably' means they have spent most of their skill points (I have no idea how much goes into these things) in mining ships, upgrading them, and other non-combat skills except for the most basic.

      *sorry for any consternation the original phrase may have caused.*


    2. It's more than just skill points; most of the New Order's enemies are miners who never once watched local nor activated a warp scrambler. More important than not having the skill points for flying a combat ship against the New Order, the carebears don't know a damn thing about PVP.

    3. It takes only three days to make a gank character.

      They could make a pvp character of equal skill in the same amount of time.

      But they never do, Alistair. If there was more to them than carebearism, they would either do something instead of attempting tear or threat tanking, or quietly leave to finish their industry activities elsewhere.

      This kind of whining is about all they are capable of.

      The competent either quietly leave ... or they smile and join us.

    4. This falls back into an interesting argument i hear from the carebears, "Without us you'd have no ships!" They think that, because they can't PVP, that PVPers can't do industry.

      This idea is patently false. Industry is basically just numbers. Mining is dead simple. The "hard" part is getting everything perfectly efficient, and even then, that's just a matter of skill training. A PVPer can quite easily roll an industry alt, start the skillplans training, then come back in X months to a "perfect" industrial.

      An industrial who knows the rudiments of PVP can be powerful. An industrial who knows PVP can be a force to be reckoned with. A carebear who knows nothing about PVP is a target. Guess who we shoot?

    5. Well, now I understand why I don't get carebears. They avoid PVP like the plague, and to quote myself, I've been waiting to "lock horns" with someone else since my first day in EVE. I also never said anything about skills outside the game's skill books, but thanks for bringing that up Manny. Lady Fappington, I never brought up that argument, nor did I know that it existed in the first place. Overall, I guess I understand the mentality of the stereotypical carebear now.


  5. The resistance will go far with captain can't be bothered on their side :)

  6. I've enjoyed reading this blog and watching the New Order grow.

    Although it is a shame that the knights are nothing like you James, I am sure that as their saviour you are trying your best

    Best of luck to your agenda :P

  7. Stories like these make me grow a big rubbery one.

  8. New order is illegitimate because they discriminate against non English speakers.

  9. what happens when the next hulkagedon comes around and miners are ganked as equals, permit holders, and non permit holders. Will the permit holders get mad that you didnt protect them only to get ejected for not congratulating the gankers in local. Or will they just lock up in station until it blows over? this is my only question.

    1. If miners decide to mine during Hulkageddon - permit holder or not - then I am sure they accept the risks of undocking.

      Besides we don't "protect" miners. We ensure they hold valid mining permits if they wish to mine in New Order space. Miners can protect themselves by being vigilant and actually being at their keyboard when they play EVE.

    2. That's actually 3 questions, not one question.

      "what happens when the next hulkagedon comes around and miners are ganked as equals, permit holders, and non permit holders[?]"

      permit holders won't be ganked as equals, because they aren't equal to non-permit holders(fitting tank and staying ATK, while obeying the laws of highsec, is different than not doing those things), so your question is badly posed.


      The percentage of permit-holding miners for whom the above scenario comes to pass will likely be between 0% and 100%.

      "Or will they just lock up in station until it blows over?"


      I'm glad that I could help answering all 3 of your questions.

    3. Hulkageddon is forever now... didn't you get the memo?

    4. 'Tis the year Hulkageddon never ended.

      Get used to the new reality, Anon. It will be this way forever.

    5. Many department stores have endless sales, and yet they still have special holiday sales that are even more sale-y than normal. In the same fashion, the endless hulkageddon doesn't preclude an old-style shorter hulkageddon with additional prizes and competitions, running concomitantly with the permahulkageddon :)

  10. Wow, this is almost like a Saturday morning cartoon. With, enraged miners screaming i'll get you next time New order.


    1. Hell, at least Elmer Fudd picked up a shotgun, and Wiley E Coyote would order traps from Acme.

      These miners aren't even up to that.

  11. Why can't any of the rebel miners spell?

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  13. Sorry for the length:

    I will freely admit to being utterly frustrated with the miners who fall victim to the New Order. I, myself, have stood guard over an afk pod for thirty minutes after New Order destroyed the afk miner's ship. Then, after many discussions with miners who stated that they were not interested in PVP, I realized that until the miners were willing to stand up and fight for themselves (By fight, I mean by any means they can-industrially; by providing ships to willing combatants, economically; by providing necessary funding, or by themselves becoming combatants) that it was useless, so I settled into the role of "criminal hunter" and enjoyed shooting at New Order.

    I think there are a few reasons why the rebellion has been only marginally ;
    1. lack of articipants/support possibly due to the nature of the victims in general
    2. moral distaste for non-consensual pvp
    3. lack of organization for many reasons (which is another post entirely)
    4. lack of clear enemy target (you can't fight an idea) and one willing to use suicide attacks
    5. the people fighting most fervently in the rebellion aren't the miners themselves.

    I know there are alot of other reasons as well, but as long as the rebellion stays disorganized and the miners would rather yell and scream about the New Order than doing anything about it, an effective resistance cannot be mounted.

    I know that my fellow rebels might not agree with my assessment but I dare say that many of them have thought the same thing, if not voiced it to no effect.

    Remember; this is just my opinion on what I have seen.

    However, I also want to remind anyone who is reading this who is offended by gankers, that this is EVE. (We signed on for this when we paid our subscription.)

    1. I, for one, always am glad to see Talon Blacksheer in system when I am bumping and ganking. He is never abusive or unpleasant to us despite opposing our efforts to save highsec.

      There arises a certain feeling after enforcing The Code for several months that things don't change very quickly, or for some miners, at all. TB shows an enthusiasm for the game that is very much like ours in that he fights for what he believes in and is willing to dedicate himself to achieving his goals. And like myself, he has come to question whether the highsec miners are worth our efforts.

      Like Talon, I naively believed that presented with proof that afk mining would result in the likely loss of their ships and pods, the miners would take action to protect themselves. Since the only certain action they could take was to purchase a permit and follow The Code, I anticipated seeing the belts and ice fields full of blue miners conversing pleasantly with the local Agents. To say I have been greatly disappointed is an understatement.

      At the danger of speaking for Talon, I expect he believed that by providing a central rallying point for the miners, he would get them to take some action to protect themselves by his definition, ie, "fighting back". Only now does he realize that what the New Order has been saying all along is true. That the miners will not make any effort that involves risk, ISK, or in many cases, even their personal effort to change what they are doing, like being present for instance.

      Fighting for a lost cause is noble. It CAN be a reasonable thing to do. But to fight for a group whose members do not 1) care enough to fight for themselves and 2) don't bother to acknowledge that an effort is being made on their behalf is both futile and soul crushing.

      My hope is that Talon Blacksheer will step back, look carefully at the situation, consider each point of evidence closely, and decide that the only logical conclusion is to kill the non compliant miners. Kill them all.

      Highsec is worth fighting for.


    2. most high-sec industrials have enough manufacturing going on to more than pay for their subs... the New Order rarely ever stay in system for more than a day, and there's no reason to engage against a transient force. the smart industrials don't list mining permits in their bios because they don't want to attract haters.

      the only ones who would buy permits are new players who don't know any better and massive botfleets run by a single player-corp.

    3. To Anonymous:

      "the New Order rarely ever stay in system for more than a day"

      To the contrary...they even announce where they're going to be and stay put for quite a while. I spent 2 months hunting them around Chelien and Brap. Now they're in Kamio, where they've been for a while. They're not so much "moving around" as they are "spreading out" which means they're growing bigger and bigger everyday. I'm not sure that miners can afford to blow them off the way that your statement above sounds. Inevitibly, they will force everyone's hand to either buy a permit, learn to fly a skiff and tank the hell out of it, or fight. For those who stubbornly refuse to respond to their existence, I suppose they will cling to what I can only call "afk playing", or merely rack up continued losses as they refuse to engage.


      If only that were the case...Unfortunately, there are a lot of miners buying permits who "just don't want the hassle".

      It is my hope that someone like you would begin engaging with what is happening and add your skillset and expertise to the rebels who are trying to stop them.

    4. Miners who have this mindset are the reason the New Order Knights have made 35 kills in the Kamio area in the last 24 hours alone. They are of course foolish to think this. Each ship lost represents many multiples of the 10,000,000 ISK a mining permit costs. Even a Tech I Retriever is worth four permits.

      I am always amazed that a player who measures their success by watching their ISK total rise is unable to reason that 10,000,000 is much less than 40,000,000...

      or 200,000,000

      or a billion.


    5. don't laugh when I say this, but it's true: some high sec miners don't care about a few 300-mil losses... especially the high sec industrial variants that have alternate sources of passive income. being ganked adds variety to their semi-afk existence... and that's why they fly retrievers in space they know New Order frequents.

  14. FACT: According to MinerBumping's Killboard, they have 630 pod kills and 989 mining barge/exhumer kills. This means that 36% of their victims are NOT afk and escaped with their pods.
    To these 36%, the New Order is no different from any other ganker, griefer, or misc. faggot.

    Furthermore, I have personally masqueraded around James 315 HIMSELF with a FAKE mining license. I have personally went afk while mining IN THE PRESENCE of New Order Agents safely with said FAKE mining license IN AN UNTANKED RETRIEVER! It is beyond a shadow of a doubt that New Order Agents INCLUDING JAMES HIMSELF do not regularly check whether mining licenses are real or fake, and I doubt that the list James is even reliable.

    1. The reason that pods survive is because CONCORD arrives before the ganker can lock onto it and shoot it. It does not mean they have warped off and escaped. So, not a FACT.

      We in the New Order have discussed the problem of the fake bio claim. We have decided that anyone who proclaims they support James 315 and the New Order has acknowledged our control of highsec and we don't delve into their true motivation for supporting us. I agree that anyone who is so unprincipled as to claim to have purchased a mining license without actually doing so is at the very bottom of the Eve community in both principle and courage but still, they are a NO supporter.

      You will not be saved from your bot aspirancy by being a cowardly liar however so its better to go ahead and buy the permit and follow The Code.

    2. Been mining with a fake permit for couple of weeks now. Personally I don't give a flying fuck about what's in my bio. This New Order fad is providing great entertainment at the moment, so keep it up! :-)

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  15. 2 things stuck out to me:

    1.) we dont babysit and bodyguard miners, just because they purchase a permit.

    2.) HIRE MERCS.....are you serious?? someone who wont spend 10 mill on a permit is gonna go out and hire mercs to just sit there IN CASE someone comes by to gank them....AND is gonna do it for LESS than 10 mill.

