The Eve Community

Before you read on you should take a moment and read Sion Kumitomo's article over on TMC. I don't normally share links there, but I will make yet another exception for your benefit. So here it is.

Someone should really try and talk him out of writing any more posts about something he obviously fails to comprehend. This is two posts lately in which the esteemed Mr. Sion fails to grasp the enormity of his own foot when placed directly into his own mouth. So let me take a moment and clarify a few things in simple, easy-to-understand language.

"The Community" (or the "Eve Online Community") is ANYONE that plays or participates in ANYTHING having to do with Eve Online. It is by its very nature an all-inclusive group of people from all walks of life, from all over the globe, that share one common interest - Eve Online. That is the "community" I speak about when I invoke the word. Believe it or not, my community includes Goons. And Reddit posters. And Brave Newbies. And Faction Warfare pilots. And Miners. And even people that fit Warp Core Stabilizers on their ships. (But just barely.)

There are so many things wrong with this post that it is hard to get my head around the lunacy and utter madness that brings it to light. Let me pull a quote that really speaks volumes:

"Let us acknowledge what is actually behind these judgmental, exclusionary statements: attempting to invoke "the community" is a naked political play by people who lack the courage to stand for something on their own. It is a lazy way to elicit the illusion of mass consensus while shouting down opposing viewpoints. We see this same technique in political campaigns worldwide in the form "the nation’s people demand" and such. This is not a novel approach, and it is as transparent in EVE Online as it is in real-world politics."

At least he isn't talking about me here, so I will give him some credit. So let me get this straight, when a majority of players (including the vast majority of your own players in GSF/Imperium by the way) refuse to fund your Kickstarter that means they are cowards? Uh, no. That is not correct. Just because you say something doesn't make it true. There is no "illusion" of mass consensus at work here, there is actual real mass consensus at work here. They didn't like the Kickstarter and they refused to support it. Period. Grow up and take your lumps.

"Goonswarm Federation has existed for a decade. The Imperium has existed for half a decade. We have built, we have laughed, we have cried, we have marched to war, we have lost dear friends. We are deeply invested in the wellbeing of the whole because we comprise that whole. We have raised hundreds of thousands of dollars for charities, we have raised the visibility for any number of individuals and issues, we have helped our people in uncountable ways.

This rock solid commitment to our own ideals and to the community we’ve collectively built means that when I inevitably find myself in the trenches or in dire straits, I have but to look to my friends standing next to me. They have my back and I have theirs—not because of self-interest, but because they would do the same for me."

Talk about exclusive. When Sion talks about "community" he means Goons. Which is fine I suppose. Lots of us have communities like this in Eve. Alliances. Corporations. Podcasting crews. Any group of like-minded players gathered together could be considered a "community". Although I don't think anyone in their right mind would consider people who post to Reddit or other forums a "community". I mean its just a place for people to comment and post, you know, like Facebook.

Oh wait, Sion thinks people consider Reddit a community. He must, since he spends about two entire paragraphs trying to prove that it isn't. I did it in two sentences. Having said all that, Reddit is part of "the community", something that Sion fails to grasp.

Frankly no one speaks for "the community" and anyone who says they do should be scorned and mocked openly. The only community I can speak for is the players in my own Alliance and in Stay Frosty. Otherwise I'm just a rather handsome and super creative blogger type person. Whenever I use the words "community" I mean that vast, unwashed totality that includes everyone that has anything to do with Eve Online. All of us.

Y'know, the same bunch of lunatics that said no thank you to the Kickstarter. For reasons.

If these guys are seriously going to try this again in March, they are going to have to come to terms with the fact that the community is bigger than Goons. Or not.

And if I addressed anyone in my Alliance as "My People" they'd put me away.

It's a game people!! Lighten up.


  1. I consider Reddit, or the regulars in particular subreddits, to make up communities. How would they not be online communities in the way any forum can spawn a community. It may be small, insular, or tight knit, but it looks like a community to me. It is like Cheers, just a place where people know your name.

    I don't even want to get into the rest of this. My main pet peeve is people saying they speak for the community, or the alleged good of the community, and then espousing a very specific point of view. We'll have none of that please.

    1. I don't get mad at that anymore, because the act of taking a stance on something requires you to generalize. People can only absorb information in small packets at a time, and you can't rattle off the specific players you're speaking to at every reference point. To some extent, anyone who's intellectually honest will acknowledge that a) they believe that what they're advocating is good for the community, and b) no opinion that says anything definitively can possibly satisfy or represent everyone. And you've got to be okay with that if you want to take any sort of stand.

      What offends me about Sion is the attempt to make the rest of Eve feel bad for not supporting his personal profit strategy. The claims that "the community failed" because an author was treated with the same skepticism on reddit that every other member of that community is treated to are pretty outrageous and bankrupt Sion's credibility.

  2. "The way our community collectively treats him [Jeff Edwards] as an author and as a person reflects upon all of us. Regardless of whether this Kickstarter succeeds or not, Jeff’s impression of us as a community matters and will persist. So let's look at some gems that our community has spewed forth:"

    Oh the irony!

    1. reddit did not set out to ruin the author's relation to Eve, they set out to ruin it for you. (TMC/Goons). So, it is not funny? Goons have amused themselves for years this way.

      Eve did not isolate Goons. It is self-inflicted. Hulkageddon, Ice Intradictions, Burns and Mini-Luv. Labels like pubbie, spreg, scrub. Even the "mistakes were made" from Mittani is directly specific at the goons.

      Fine Sion; your book, your media, YOUR WALLET.

    2. Hulkageddon is not a Goon thing. It's my thing. I just worked with them on the last one for funsies.

  3. While he's busy bragging on how strong and united the CFC community is, Sion might want to contemplate that even if 5 out of 6 of their 43000 characters are alts, it still means that 19 people out of 20 in his community didn't support his KS.

  4. In the past I was more or less neutral towards Goons. Neither for nor against. They just were.

    Sion's last two posts on the subject is starting to swing me to the grr side. So much so that I am now reluctant to join one of my old corporations (and mates) in TNT.

    Will see how this pans out.

  5. Think about it this way - everyone in a small town is part of a community because they all share ONE thing in common - they all live in a community together. A community only needs to share one thing in common to be considered a community. I doubt everyone in a small town, or in any community, shares all beliefs in common. Even Goons.

  6. "And if I addressed anyone in my Alliance as "My People" they'd put me away."

    Oh please, they'd give you a great hat, and a white coat first!

  7. Sure, every player in Eve is part of the same community. Pretty much every community of 200,000 plus people, at least in North America, has a group in that community that are organized crime. goons are that element of the community.

  8. It's pretty obvious he's trying to create a them vs. us situation for the next kickstarter in the hope more of 'his side' will back it.

    1. If that is indeed the strategy at play here, I have to admit I'd be disappointed. It didn't work the first time and I doubt such a strategy will work now after all the water that has passed under that particular bridge.

  9. I guess I'm on the other side of the fence with this for once in that I just don't see what Sion said as incorrect. I think far too many people do invoke the "Community" label when trying to rally people around their own personal agenda. What Sion is saying is the Goons do not do that because they have their own defined community within the greater "community" that is all people who play EVE Online.

    For my two cents, the only time I see "The Community" used properly is when we support things like Broadcast 4 Reps, Disaster Relief Efforts, gofundme pages for players we have lost IRL and are now collecting money for their families, etc. That is when all of EVE come together as one to support a common cause. Invoking "The Community" to attack another entity in game like the Goons, A Band Apart or any other organization is a political strategy, like Sion said, made in an attempt to rally support for one side or the other - thus dividing that all inclusive community Rixx speaks of.

    And no, this does not mean I am a person who supports the Imperium, Goons, whatever you want to call them. I just think we should save the hateful diatribe for when it's deserved and also give credit where credit is due. Love them or hate them, they have built an impressive Community within EVE Online. Just because they choose to use their community for what many see as "bad" instead of "good" is more of an argument in semantics really.

    Because the truth is if we worked as hard as they did at building our own self sustained community as they did (and continue to do, btw) - then there would be many more "communities" out there capable of pushing back when they tilt our direction (*cough* Viceroy's *cough, cough*). Trouble is, exactly as the Mittani said, the majority of EVE Online is divided and fragmented into too many small entities that cannot put their differences aside long enough to stop the Imperium from doing whatever they choose to do.

    Prove me wrong, guys . . . please, I beg you - prove me wrong!

    - Mal

    1. That'd be playing into their hands. Instead, we'll treat them the same way they've treated us, until they turn inwards in an orgy of blood and drama...


    2. "I just think we should save the hateful diatribe for when it's deserved . . ."

      And there's the question, yes? Seems to me underneath all the confusing community/"community" Sion hand waving is desire to deploy "Bygones! On this matter can't we all just get along?" Now I've nothing against bygones, but you don't get to just declare it via clever definitional rhetoric, you have to earn it and I'm not seeing whole lot of earning going on.

    3. So Capt, please tell us, was it The Community or the collection of communities which decided the goonie kickstarter was trash and refused to fund it? To me, it seems like you and Sion are splitting hairs over definitions. Mind you, Sion then goes on to QQ all over TMdC and label The Community as toxic for not funding the shareholder's RMT fund and implies that not funding it will hurt the game. He's an idiot, don't follow him down the fallacy hole.

    4. To fund or not to fund - that is the question . . .

      But really, it's just a personal choice each player gets to decide. It's that simple. Don't let funding a kickstarter or not funding a kickstarter be a determining factor as to where loyalties lie or to what "community" you align with. I believe Rixx even donated to the kickstarter if I remember reading that correctly - but does that make him a Goon or an Imperium Supporter?

      We can debate for months as to why the kickstarter failed - but in the end, does it really matter?

      The conversation simply is a thought exercise intended to invoke some deep considerations about those people you choose to play this incredible "game" with. There are communities within communities here - as it should be.


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