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2:19 AM
15 messages moved to Chimney
Ugh, very sleepy morning 😵
I'd be sleepy too, this late at night
2:37 AM
Its half past 10 out here
dumps ice water on @NoDistractionWizard
falls asleep
2 hours later…
5:07 AM
Ugh, very sleepy afternoon ...
6:06 AM
I hit a sweet spot or something with my answer which I expected to be a meh for most users ... 6 comments ... high comment votes ... exploded Inbox ...
Is it bad form to vote to delete an answer that's really, really crappy but not otherwise flaggable? E.g. patently incorrect, dangerous, rambling, etc.
It's often better to downvote it to oblivion and make an example of it
rambling sounds like a non-answer
Yeah but when it's answering a question on HNQ, it'll get enough upvotes to give the answerer a net increase in rep despite being heavily downvoted.
"Hey guise here's some advice: Do this one thing that is literally the first thing everyone tells you not to do! I'm no expert, but it never stopped me before!"
6:17 AM
That would be a reason for deletion via chat, yes.
A: Why is it wrong to *implement* myself a known, published, widely believed to be secure crypto algorithm?

JenniferThe problem with using well-known professionally implemented algorithms is that all you have to protect the message is the key. If Evelyn can find out (or guess) the key, then the message can be decoded. Before World War 2, there were two kinds of Enigma crypto machines -- one for business and ...

It's hurting my brain.
Literally promoting security through obscurity, and yet being +1/-3 means that there was a net gain in rep.
> IANAC, but I never let something like that stop me before.
Reputation has never really mattered anyways
It matters enough that there are vote fraud rings for that very purpose.
Voting rings are a matter for mods
@forest which get caught often and lose all that rep. or we never know about them and who cares cause imaginary internet points.
6:20 AM
> which get caught often
loose as in via bounties, or lose* as in ungain?
Loose as in reduce tension, of course.
That would be "loosen", and I don't know what that would mean in terms of reputation
It's just that freaking "but I never let something like that stop me before" that triggers the hell out of me. It's like it's asking to be laughed at.
... or "let loose"
6:23 AM
Fortunately as a mod, I have the option of fixing my spelling errors at leisure.
That's literally the only reason I've ever wanted to be a mod on this site.
@forest this site...
And if my main sites ever have a new election, I'll try to win.
Because damn is the 5 minute delay obnoxious.
getting to be a mod is tricky
Probably easier elsewhere.
"This" meaning SE, of course. Not all of SE. :P
6:24 AM
@forest really? Did deleting others' messages not fancy you, or even the ability to see deleted comments?
that's even trickier and something I've not managed. Yet.
Well in theory I could probably pwn a mod's account pretty easily but I doubt that'd last long. :P
@forest and probably get all the mods mad at you forever, and probably have folks throwing the book at you
@JohnDvorak Seeing deleted comments would be neat but deleting other's messages? Only if necessary. But being able to edit my own comments would be awesome.
@JourneymanGeek Yeah it probably wouldn't end well lol
6:25 AM
Would teach people to use better passwords though.
@forest tbh, seeing deleted comments is click through, and usually boring.
and if you bribe a mod appropriately ask nicely and its not an event of intense drama, a mod might oblige
Only reason I ever wish to see deleted comments is in case someone is replying to a deleted comment. I sometimes get confused if I don't know what someone is talking about.
But all the time I have to delete my own comments because the 5 minute limit goes out, and then write a new one (sometimes spamming someone's inbox in the process).
What if it is an event of intense drama, and I promise to not steamroll in after reading the comments?
And I'm OCD so I can never post a comment with text that doesn't align.
Drama is fun.
But SE does not foster violence very well.
@forest by design
6:28 AM
I prefer IRC for drama because there are no lasting consequences.
No long-term information (questions/answers) get messed up, etc.
Really? I'd say that Worldbuilding delights in violence. And Music delights in violins.
Everything's nice and temporary.
and sometimes there's stuff going on behind the scenes to try to keep things under control.
@JohnDvorak getting a privilege to see deleted comments just make me wanted to re-delete the already deleted comments
Yeah like banning people from chat for using the word "s*x" in a professional manner. :^)
@NoDistractionWizard Super delete!
I feel that way sometimes reading deleted answers.
But other times I just find them hilariously bad.
6:31 AM
@forest we don't ban, we suspend
and on most sites, there's rarely a professional reason to
Most of the time the perception filter works for deleted spam/rude posts, but apparently might make a shock therapy to mods
Eh, I used it in the most professional way possible, referring to a vulnerability in s*x toys, not linking to anything NSFW or using it in an inappropriate way.
beside... facepalming after seeing the posts
At least it means it's appropriate to flag comments which use that word.
I've never gotten the opportunity to flag many things before, not in chat.
and also, SOX is a good userscript
waiting to be banned
6:33 AM
What is SOX?
Q: Stack Overflow Extras (SOX)


Yeah just saw that.
@forest I'm personally a fan of setting expectations, and actually letting people know before flagging. SU's specific tradition was accidental but works well for us
And probably driven by random strangers flagging things and resulting drama
@JourneymanGeek Nah I was talking about this specific chat when you banned me in my sleep. Haven't been in SU chat for a while.
Er, suspended.
because "Stack Exchange eXtras" won't work well...
6:35 AM
We suspend people for extended periods of time.
at worst
Yeah yeah wrong terminology.
My bad.
also if I ever suspend you there's typically a warning at some point
I've seen a 10-year suspension, but even that is super-rare
But hey, a warning that the s-word was a no-no regardless of context would have been nice. Cuz, you know, I can't reply when I'm asleep. :P
6:36 AM
@JourneymanGeek Wait is that sarcasm?
Or were you not the one who suspended me for the s-word?
@forest actually no. I make it a point to
Wait, why is it illegal to talk about XX vs. XY?
So... a lot of my moderation is based on dog training.
@JohnDvorak No, but the word itself e.g. s*x toys is banna^Wsuspendable.
6:36 AM
If you did something wrong, I prefer you know specifically what it is
Unless you're clearly malicious and out to get me.
@JourneymanGeek Well my bad! This whole time I thought you were just out to get me and trying to find any reason to suspend me for frivolous reasons.
You are not, are you Mr Forest?
So someone else is the culprit eh?
@forest I have enough... things to deal with without holding a grudge.
6:37 AM
@forest someone flagged, someone looked at the flag, someone approved.
Damn, whoever approved should have looked at context.
And honestly? I do not remember this specific one.
Also, I thought suspensions resulting from flags were automated?
This was clearly a manual suspension since it was for like... 2 days.
Well, there's three ways to suspend.
That's not a suspension, that's a chat ban
6:38 AM
Flag suspend, kick suspend and manual suspend.
You'd need to look up chat suspension times for the first two
@JohnDvorak Well yeah I meant chat. Never been suspended on the main site and I don't intend to be so. Also I guess that means my use of the term ban was actually correct if it's a chat ban, not a suspension. :D
That's why chat moderation is fun exhausting, especially on Chat.SE covering 170+ sites' chat rooms
@JourneymanGeek Couldn't have been a kick suspend. I had left chat and was asleep.
I do not remember this. And I certainly try not to swing my large mod hammer around outside RA unless its a ... well... immediate problem
Man I totally had the wrong idea about you lol
6:40 AM
@forest welcome to random flags. The reason RA has the LANGUAGE! and "I'll help you get rid of that' rules.
Random flags suck.
I still don't see why a mod would kick me for using the s-word when it clearly means "gender" rather than ... the other meaning.
They do. But they're a fact of life, and a cost of doing business so to speak
@JohnDvorak If I were that mod, or even 10ker(s) I'd tell you
@JohnDvorak Well there's also a difference between the word s*x itself and using the word inappropriately or with malicious/offensive intent.
Because "lol look a vulnerable 'smart' s*x toy when will IoT folk learn" is a lot less offensive than some crappy low-brow s*x joke.
Maybe the flagger simply didn't want you to talk about that topic, irrespective of how?
6:42 AM
If it directs to unconstructive/unconducive discussion, then there's a source of the problem...
@JohnDvorak Thankfully I was fast asleep when said snowflake got triggered.
Yeah ofc. Anything is bad if it causes drama.
@forest heh, see, that's exactly why people need to sound off when they're legitimately uncomfortable
Be careful... calling people snowflakes may trigger them
I thought snowflake was supposed to be a good thing to those... types. I mean, who doesn't want to be a beautiful and unique snowflake?
I can get some folks are uncomfortable with such discussions
6:43 AM
Chat kicks always cause drama. Are chat kicks always bad?
@JohnDvorak no
If they cause more drama than they eliminate.
They're useful as a way to disrupt an ongoing problem if softer approaches don't work and there's no mod around
So, as a chat mod, I have a few tools at my disposal.
Yeah but like... 2 days vs 30 minutes.
Totally get 30 minutes as a mandatory cooldown period.
But man, not being able to get on a sock in 5 seconds is frustrating lol
The most important is the ability to ask nicely that certain topics be dropped, or moved offsite and be listened to
which is at odds with what @forest assumes how I do thing is ;p
6:45 AM
Yeah I agree with that. I always listen to ROs and mods if they tell me off.
@forest though if you're suspended, and you get caught socking...
At least, if I understand them and is not pissing me off. >_>
Yeah it's too risky to do on SE.
@forest or you assume mods are out to get you.
Hey sometimes they are.
@forest honestly, the worst things a popular elected mod can do to you are invisible ;)
6:47 AM
On IRC I could just use an IRSSI script /evade and within 5 seconds I'd be back in the channel (at least until the op sets it +m or +i, but then everyone gets screwed).
People may not be out to get me, but they manage to do that just fine unintentionally
@JourneymanGeek lol like what
@JohnDvorak that's even worse
@forest imagine if everyone just started ignoring you.
Mods can hellban?
no suspensions
6:48 AM
well, not in the way you think
Yeah but that's not really invisible.
Well, this kind of conversation that made prefer to be silent, but feel free to continue :)
Yeah. People get kinda angry when I shout at them for talking too much.
Hellbans/shadowbans are just pure evil.
Only time I've ever seen it was on Usenet, HackerNews, and Freenode.
6:50 AM
Don't forget Facebook
I don't use Facebook. Never have, never will.
(I... don't even know how Facebook works. Always thought it's some kind of blog)
What is it, $5 to make your message actually be seen by everyone who follows you?
For what, Facebook?
no clue
Fun story: I was once thwarted trying to hack someone's Facebook because I couldn't figure out how the hell to use the site, despite having the password. :D
I eventually gave up because the damn site made no sense.
6:52 AM
@forest twitter with more words.
@forest really?
Oh, lame.
Yeah. The site genuinely makes no sense.
Like not just where the options are, but how the whole thing works.
(Of course, I don't use social media in general, so meh)
@forest people post random streams of conciousness
I thought that's what blogs were for.
no one really blogs any more
6:54 AM
You know, Twitter is the new blog
I use Facebook for one thing only: It's easier than asking the waiter for a WiFi password, so I instead advertise the restaurant to a chosen group of Facebook followers. The group is called "me".
You can bypass those pretty easily. Most of the time the password is the same as the name of the restaurant with a year appended.
I do know the password. But it's still ten clicks vs. two.
Unfortunately, the last time I got a password, it's taken from a random menu of that restaurant.
I just use a 3G/4G dongle.
When I'm in populated places I just use nearby Wi-Fi, but where I live, there's usually only one access point available at any given time.
I hate airplane Wi-Fi too. It's so slow.
I just want high-speed internet all around the world with no dead spots or fees and low latency for free. Is that so much to ask???
7:02 AM
@JourneymanGeek Have you looked at Medium? Their paywall stuff is annoying, but a lot of people post interesting stuff there (like @HDE).
@forest ask Elon
@Mithrandir Their paywall stuff is IP based. I use Tor so I literally never run into a paywall. It always gives me that free few views or whatever.
@Mithrandir lemme rephrase
Most muggles don't blog any more
Most people don't even remember that "blog" stands for "web log". :/
web log. weblog. weblog :P
Although I am a fan of XKCD's "interblag".
7:07 AM
@forest Cookies.
Did anyone say "web log"?
@Mithrandir Do they use cookies? I wonder why they never blocked me then.
I think both. Account, cookies, and IP.
booty clap is... whoa, what? it's a (clap) trap!
That guy is so lost.
7:15 AM
@forest Pronounced: Weblock. I hate it when people do that. :P
Not that my pronunciation of English can ever be considered normal, but at least I can try and make a difference between log and lock :P
@JourneymanGeek Technically, "chat ban" is an official synonym of "chat suspension". It's in the tag name.
@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog bans are forever.
Also in this specific context, I was trying to reassure someone that we were not out to get him
or at the very least, he'd know I was out to get him
True, but a long-used miswording ended up getting routinely misused such that the definition changed. (e.g. "presently")
7:20 AM
It really depends on the community. Sometimes "ban" is a temporary thing.
@forest Not exactly the wrong terminology.
Even though linguistically it should not be (ban = banish).
True, but in SE we've always talked about bans as temporary
its a critical part of the narrative that you can change and fix things
@JourneymanGeek What would you think of an "indefinite" suspension? It's technically never-ending, but the wording implies "until the issue is resolved"
@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog we don't do that
7:21 AM
Great alternative to decade+-long suspensions
A 50 year suspension is ostensibly temporary but really?
And people have gotten those lifted.
Also saves future mods the trouble of dealing with the user should they come back, of contacting then-mods who may have left the site, etc.
@JourneymanGeek "Indefinite" doesn't mean "un-liftable".
@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog there's an amazing amount of braintrust here
and ways we can leave notes across time and space.
imma go. pls don't ban me while I'm gone
7:23 AM
> This user is currently exiled for rules violation until someone saves them.
@JourneymanGeek Another thing: I often see users unconstructively discussing different lengths of long suspensions: 10 years, 25 years, 270 years, etc. when they all really mean the same thing.
@forest ONE MOMENT!
Oh never mind
@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog I'm not though!
Having all those marked as "indefinite" would put an end to that.
I was literally talking to someone who assumed I suspended him
Which I don't think I did.
but... 270 years is definite...
7:24 AM
@JourneymanGeek Changed reply to general ping to make it clear it was about something else.
and some people believe in reincarnation... but still got suspended
@NoDistractionWizard "Ah, I see you've unsuspended this guy who got 3,200 years...I only got 10 years, so why am I being treated unfairly?" (was an actual comment somewhere)
@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog a year is a mod at their wit's end. a decade is a CM helpoing out. 3200 years is a CM... having had enough.
7:28 AM
@JourneymanGeek Nope, it was a mod levying a chat ban, the mod having bypassed the client-side limit of four-digit hours and using the maximum limit imposed by the server.
In that case it was a mod having had enough
these things happen
once again though, this is why we try really hard to get people to actually get back from the brink first
But why show a specific number, when it technically is all academic?
we ask nicely, try to keep them from hoisting themselves on their own petard...
@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog its... acedemic past a certain point
we don't want to say "you're banned forever kthxbye"
because its never been how we do things
"Indefinite" does not imply "forever". It means "until the issue is resolved".
Don't slice off the "de".
Don't slice off Germany
Or just... have a number that dosen't mean much
I mean, if its acedemic, it dosen't matter.
And tbh, if I've given someone a long suspension, tis not for them, its for everyone else.
7:32 AM
...so if the exact number doesn't matter, then why show it?
Why bother then?
what's it matter?
Its a number
How does saying "indefinately" improve quality of life for anyone?
Other users coming across these network-wide site-suspended accounts and the resulting public spectacle; I would often see unconstructive chats regarding them, with users talking about it as well as comparing them to other users with really long ones, implying that users with, say, 50 years did something "worse" than those with 25 years, and most importantly having everything dragged out into public, which as you know makes it harder for the user themselves to recover.
I've never really run into that
and only a few mods do the extra-special chat suspension
I'm lazy and am happy with the max in the UI
@JourneymanGeek Edited my message to make it clear I'm referring to site suspensions.
You were talking about chat first
7:36 AM
15 mins ago, by Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog
...was referring to site suspensions, I should have made that more clear.
@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog We're talking in circles.
Cause I already replied to that
and why I oppose it
@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog Unconstructive? Seldom.
It's some 'dirty' fun talk
and if it stops being harmless, folks usually know to shut it down.
1 hour later…
9:16 AM
5 messages moved to Chimney
9:27 AM
When waffle is more important than timeline...
No time to update my Instagram. I have to actually eat the food.
4 hours later…
1:18 PM
spam suggested edit: meta.stackexchange.com/review/suggested-edits/64672 pls reject /cc @Bart @ShadowWizard @TravisJ
fair enough
@rene I can do one better :P Spammer gone ;)
1:34 PM
This look like a usual rant at first but is readable and kind of funny (I mean the subsequent thread of tweets)
> Everything that's wrong with Stack Overflow in one thread. stackoverflow.com/questions/4814398/… -- Anna at 6:18 AM - 9 May 2019 - Twitter
@VoteDukakis Can you do something with those links so they look less like links to comments on SE/SO, but so it's a bit clearer they're links to twitter? :D
The look fancy though, way better than oneboxes ;)
Add - Twitter at the end?
@VoteDukakis Sounds good enough :)
2:07 PM
Slogan: SO, teachin' write from wrong for over a decade.
2:17 PM
@Tinkeringbell ... good to see I wasn't the only one
the older question closed as dupe of a newer question? Totally how stuff should work
Sorry, I voted to close as a dupe of its own...
2:36 PM
I set up a Pi Hole and there's a lot of requests to stackoverflow.tech. I've come across that domain before and remember that it's not related to stackoverflow.com, but when I search using DDG, all I get back is stackoverflow.com. I can't recall what software or website I used to come across that domain. Anyone here familiar with that domain?
oh, importantly, the DNS requests are to localhost.stackoverflow.tech
hm, interesting
its a namecheap hosted domain with whoisguard
no easy way to check whose it is
seems to be behind cloudflare
@Catija sorry for disturbing.
2:53 PM
seems to resolve to, but I'm running into captcha walls. All i could find was that it was also related to Cloudflare somehow. I blacklisted it for now and will see what breaks, lol
3:15 PM
I've not seen one decent answer yet, well at least on my questions. — Dan K 2 mins ago
Scratches head
> Then we can take it off [...] and try to give you a good [...]
A small exercise in selected reading.
Other than the possible replacements with sexual connotations, "forcefully" and "beating" seem apt.
Fifteen minutes! — Will 44 mins ago
What's the typo? Can't see images. Love the UFO-spotted tone though
Shyamalan would be proud.
@Pandya No worries ! :D
3:38 PM
@Margarine Good choices. I'd go with "forcibly" though, as discussed on ELU (and closed of course, should have been ELL).
4:32 PM
@VoteDukakis Right! I always confuse the two
I'm still trying to extract some meaning from under the layers of marketing speak.
> Fixate provides technical depth and experience in high-performing documentation information architecture and content. And Stack Overflow, one of the most renowned technical sites for getting answers to technical questions, brings engagement at the exact right time. This powerhouse combination helps organizations increase trials, trial completions, and builds lasting relationships with a challenging audience.
Looks like some people will get long prison sentences at the completion of their trials - hence a lasting relationship with them, admittedly a challenging audience.
Not sure who exactly. Hopefully, the ones posting programming questions on Meta.
> Our product, Direct-to-Developers, is an ideal approach for companies to get their documentation into the hands of developers, right when they are asking a question or looking for an answer about it. I believe that Fixate’s documentation and Stack Overflow’s Direct-to-Developers advertising are a perfect match.”
Something about skipping the theatrical release, I guess.
Like Behind the Candelabra - watched it yesterday, could not believe it wasn't in U.S. theaters at all.
5:12 PM
Heh, they did close it as TB. meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/384798/…
5:32 PM
@Margarine -1 didn't use red freehand circle ( :) )
5:55 PM
Is it a good name "Create a saved filter" for the link?
@αλεχολυτ Nice to see you here again...anyway, I noticed your mass-answers to the CQL update question
@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog Hello :) I heard a news about new movie with you as a main character. Congratulation!
@αλεχολυτ Well, it was designed by someone with an extremely vague memory of just the 1991 Genesis/Mega Drive game, and nothing more than that
@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog just a three little bugs ...
@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog what do you think about naming? It seems that "creating a saved filter" looks weird, since I need to create a filter first before save it. Maybe it's normal for English, not sure.
Doesn't sound weird to me.
6:08 PM
@fbueckert No, but it's going to end up highly entertaining
@Margarine Well, I think it's gone as far as it will. Next step is probably a year suspension.
@fbueckert I like the Rocky tone though. When my little brother loses in an argument, it's the tone he chooses
When user meets immovable wall, physics dictates user comes to a sad end.
6:32 PM
@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog . . . and other things
Track record says user will tilt at the windmill, though.
I remember their previous M.SO posts. Wasn't much in the way of constructiveness going on.
.. that's an expression I haven't known until now
Me neither. +1. TIL.
@fbueckert If someone bothers to write some blog about rood SO, they are pretty likely to become a familiar face for a while on meta.SE/SO
. . . until they're not.
@Margarine Likely. But unwelcome receptions tend to end badly as such users don't feel heard, and resort to increasingly stronger actions until some external action is taken.
6:55 PM
@fbueckert Whatever I say now you're probably going to already know or agree with, so I won't. I'll only do it with @Journey
7:09 PM
@Margarine No worries. Hopefully there can be an understanding in that situation, but I'm not hopeful that will happen.
7:52 PM
I've delivered my pièce de résistance ...
8:23 PM
Got this really lucky shot earlier
8:44 PM
tiny cars
8:57 PM
+1 for descriptive URL
9:23 PM
A: How to check my niceness?

Damian Medinado not let nobody talk you down you are you. if i saw you i would be so happy to meet you i think everybody is the same and they all have a good heart just like you and if your sad i will text you i promise.

Would be a great addition to close banner, to make the site nicer and more welcoming.
lol what
10:03 PM
@KevinB That's what you get when you're not on ground level...
10:22 PM
iunno, some of those cars look like they'd be tiny even at ground level
Oh, i didn't even notice the bird till now. cool
