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#rockbox log for 2006-12-02

00:00:01Bagderwhen you "fix" it I mean
00:00:13mick_homei'd create the skin,a n set it up on a server
00:00:35mick_homenot the hosting part, sorry
00:00:52mick_homebandwidth is precious when you already have 10,000 downlaods a day
00:01:05Bagdera _day_ ?
00:01:44Bagderas in 3.6 million per year?
00:02:01*Soap suspects monkey porn. Everybody loves monkeys.
00:03:22 Quit TeaSea (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00:03:25BagderI can only boast 1 million per year
00:03:44mick_homeBagder: yes, those are the stats
00:03:55 Join TeaSea [0] (n=thunderc@
00:03:58mick_homewe have over 3 million d/ls (but that stat is old)
00:04:15mick_homelet me find the sf stats
00:04:30Bagdersf? then you don't host it yourself...
00:04:40mick_homethe site we do,
00:04:48Bagder"bandwidth is precious when you already have 10,000 downlaods a day"
00:05:11Bagderthen how can sf count the downloads?
00:05:28mick_homewe have two servers doing load balancing to sustain things like new releases
00:05:32 Quit funky ("Lost terminal")
00:06:05mick_homei have cms stats too - they match the sf ones
00:06:36BagderI'm still curious how sf counts the downloads?
00:06:53Bagderdon't they only count downloads off their servers?
00:07:04mick_homeProject Web Hits and such match what we have
00:07:17mick_homeBagder: no idea really :)
00:08:05Bagderthe download link points to...
00:08:14mick_homeBagder: funny thing is how big of a userbase we have and we have a tiny channel :D
00:09:03mick_homeBagder: yes, we chouldn't handle that w/o mirrors (currently the images and such are already big enough to cause us needing 2 servers) :-/
00:09:47mick_homebut at any rate, i'll set it up if you have the bandwidth
00:09:54mick_homewe got really OT there for a sec ;)
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00:11:49SoapIf you feel MediaWiki is not only superior, but also easier - the best thing to do would be set up a demo fork and let the decision makers play on it.
00:12:05SoapWon't take much bandwidth as you don't need to make the address public.
00:12:33habanadamned, just finished to build the latest version before i realize that my USB wire stayed at work ...
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00:12:42SoapBut I, personally, believe such effort is better spent on content over delivery method.
00:13:11Bagderto me, the diff between the wikis aren't big enough to bother about
00:13:13mick_homeSoap: at any rate an overhaul is needed
00:13:24Soapyou keep using that word.
00:13:27mick_homehow many visually impared peopl use rb?
00:13:38Soapmore than enough.
00:13:42Bagdermick_home: quite a few
00:13:55mick_homethen they should be taken into consideration, or?
00:14:29Bagderwe haven't seen any complaints on the web site from those
00:14:38Bagderthat I can recall at least
00:14:42habanamick_home: aren't they ? its there a compatibility trouble ?
00:14:42mick_homei mean not only w/ 508 compliance but w/ content too ImSureThatThisCan'tBeEasyToReadWithAscreenReader
00:14:51Soapmore than enough that it can be said that Wiki complaints aren't rolling in like <insert witty analogy here>
00:15:33mick_homebut i may be wrong
00:16:01Bagderwe have a large blind and otherwise visually impaired user base
00:16:03mick_homeif someone visually impaired could try it then I'd like to actually hear from them (as i could stand correctedDD)
00:16:40mick_homei (as a non visually impared person) find those things difficult to read
00:16:55SoapIf media wiki is so easy, how about porting a wiki fork for the admins to play with?
00:17:01mick_homenot *that* difficult, but enough to grab an asperin
00:17:29mick_homeSoap: i may, but i want to mess w/ Desktop Tools
00:17:42mick_homeonce i'm done, i'd be more than happy to
00:18:04mick_homei think a good UI tool will have priority over this ;)
00:18:12habanamick_home: ive been told that if a website is easily readable with lynx navigator (text mode based), its good for blind people
00:18:43mick_homehabana: that is assuming that youdon'thavearunonsentencelikethis
00:19:08Bagderbut we don't
00:19:29mick_homeand it is more like, if it passes section 500 - then it is most likely accessable or damn close to it
00:19:34Bagderthey're only wiki names, they're not whole sentences
00:19:42mick_homeBagder: oh? isn't that how the wiki works :-P
00:21:00mick_homeumm, ok "your welcome" −−not sure what for :)
00:21:15mick_homenp ;)
00:21:30mick_homemaybe someone in #accessability could answer that
00:21:42mick_homeas it may not even be a problem (and i just may be wrong)
00:21:52mick_homeyes, even i may be wrong at times ;)
00:22:16*petur wonders if JdGordon's commit of 8 november broke settings saving somehow
00:23:06 Quit petur ("tomorrow!")
00:23:31 Quit heyJulius ("( :: NoNameScript 3.81 :: )")
00:26:00mick_homehabana: sorry, that was a typo i meant section 508*
00:26:44 Quit dan_a (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:26:45mick_homewhich the wiki fails
00:27:31rasherI haven't seen a single complaint on the mailing list about the wiki
00:27:49rasherAnd there are quite a lot of blind users (the voice ui is a major feature)
00:28:21mick_homegood, then i can skip that part and concentrate on the Desktop stuff
00:29:04rasherI would think so. I believe you're the first person to really express dislike for twiki
00:29:28rasherOther than "oh, this is not what I'm used to"
00:29:50mick_homehmm, interesting
00:29:53*Bagder pointed at wikiepedia => usability warnings overflow
00:30:05Bagderi.e it is not a software thing
00:30:15mick_homeok, i guess since i'm the only one - so i definitely will stop w/ that one
00:30:21Bagderto maximize that, you need to take care when you edit pages
00:30:42mick_homeBagder: pardon?
00:30:50 Quit lee-qid ("aufwiederbyebientotsayonara")
00:30:56mick_homewhat do you mean? can you elaborate?
00:31:00BagderAccessibility doesn't come with your flavour of wiki
00:31:16Bagderno matter what type, you can screw up or do good
00:31:18mick_homemediawiki? i just saw :)
00:31:27mick_home passes
00:31:36mick_home fails ;)
00:32:19mick_homei'll see i it is something that i need to look into or not
00:32:20rasherI think unless we're going for a US government grant, "no complaints ever" is good enough to not worry about 508
00:32:41mick_homei guess youa re right
00:32:54mick_homeit is about the only thing that i can do personally to test
00:33:06mick_homescreen readers are expensive :-(
00:33:16Bagderwatchfire found numerous warnings in your front page wiki
00:33:21mick_homeso automated testing is the only way i can go
00:33:39mick_homeBagder: that is what i said, it fails ;)
00:33:54mick_homei concentrated so much on the frontpage w/o thinking about the wiki
00:34:13mick_homebut end users don't use our wiki
00:34:20mick_homeit is more for developers
00:34:29mick_homeso whatever - if it comes up i'll fix it
00:34:52mick_homeand since you guys have no complains, moving on ... nothing to see here ;)
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01:06:20donosgood day all. i just wanted to say that i found rockbox yesterday and am having a terrific time with it. if there are any devs in here, cheers! you are amazing!
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01:10:05Soapout of curiosity, what device do you own donos?
01:10:15donosipod 5th gen
01:12:22donosi've been trying to confirm that the ipod's firmware was the reason my audiobooks were having problems playing through to the end, and somehow i discovered rockbox through the link maze. it has no problems with the files, and also handles the few flac files that i have hanging around, so it's been perfect.
01:13:30donosit was a bit ugly, but the jBlackGlass theme fixed that up nicely, and i've been showing it off all day ;)
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01:15:05Nimdaeman, i need to check my encodes for this some weird artifacting going on
01:15:12Nimdaedunno if it's the encoding or decoding
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01:49:41zylchedd if=/dev/Bagder1 of=Bagder.bin
01:49:41zylche./brainhack −−fragment-memory=1 −−random-cluster-fault=1 -o Bagder_hack.bin Bagder.bin
01:49:41zylchedd if=Bagder_hack.bin of=/dev/Bagder1
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02:55:55ani-adomwith which software i can edit wps?
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02:57:40nudelthey're just text files and bitmaps
02:57:57ani-adomthe bitmaps are the problm
02:58:14nudeljust about every graphics program works with bitmaps
02:58:42ani-adombut i dont know the size of the iriver screen
02:59:00nudelthe size is stated on the wiki i think
02:59:50ani-adomis there any software like h30mode?
03:00:16nudelI don't know what that is, sorry
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03:08:40Nibbierwps supports bitmaps? nice...
03:08:49*Nibbier should get some rockbox device again :|
03:10:07zylcheit doesn't support tifs :P
03:27:55netmasta10btnot even big tifs
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03:35:53zylchehm.. what time does the daily builds usually getr updated at?, preferably with a timezone attached..
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03:41:01webguest71anyone have any screen shots or rockbox someone could show me?
03:41:11webguest71if you could email them 2 me at that would be sweet
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04:48:47odlahi i am syncing my ipod with gtkpod and when i add music to it i can't see it on my ipod after i disconnect i need to update my rockbox before it sees the additions? i know they are really there cause i can see them when i reconnect my ipod
04:49:20dj-fuwhy use gtkpod with rockbox/
04:49:22dj-futhat's a silly idea
04:49:35odlawhy? what else should i use?
04:49:44dj-funautilus? `cp`?
04:49:57dj-furockbox is drag'n'drop file storage
04:50:04odlano shit? really?
04:50:07dj-fustraight up
04:50:14dj-futhat's half the point, to not rely on gay shit like itunes
04:50:54odlawhere do i drag the music to?
04:51:07dj-fuanywhere, lol
04:51:21dj-fuI usually put it in \Music\Artist\Album\
04:51:29dj-fupersonal preference though )
04:51:46odlaright now stuff is all broken up in iPod_Control Music
04:51:56odlaso i can delete that and start adding my music by dragging?
04:52:11dj-futhen just use the file browser on your ipod w/ rockbox to find the folder
04:52:14dj-fuor generate a playlist
04:52:19dj-fuor enable tagcache and use the id3 tag browser
04:52:30odlawell rockbox really is fucking cool
04:52:37dj-fuaye, tis
04:52:59dj-fuwhat sold me was drag'n'drop support. beats the crap out of itunes or plugins for other players
04:53:08dj-fuonly unfortunate ting is players that detect iPods freak out on it
04:53:33odlai only use linux for this shit anyways so it won't be an issue
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04:59:45odlaok when i am trying to scroll the ipod wheel it keeps scrolling me up an extra space...does that make sense? should i update my ipod?
05:00:18zylcheI like that i can put on a black background increasing battery life by 1.94%
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05:09:38odlahey i have a photo on my ipod nano now and i can't make it go away :p
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05:09:47dj-furestart it
05:11:06odladj-fu, i guess it was in slideshow mode or something
05:11:18dj-fusoundsl ike it
05:11:18scorcheodla: was in the jpegviewer
05:11:31scorchecheck the manual, and it will tell you how to get out of it ;)
05:14:12odlayeah i see now
05:14:24odlai can't believe how much more functionality it seems my ipod has now!
05:14:31odlagreat work rockbox devs :)
05:17:04*myzar licks scorche
05:17:30*scorche sprays anti-lick spray on himself
05:18:07*myzar patches code to counter scorche's anti-lick spray
05:18:15myzaralways a step ahead ;P
05:18:33*scorche counter counters myzar
05:18:39scorcheand i am a better coder than you ;)
05:20:10myzaronly if you program in basic
05:20:12myzarha ha!
05:20:18scorcheugh... pacman suppose to be sideways?
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05:37:50mick_linuxanyone know christi?
05:38:06mick_linuxtell her that her spam filtering sucks :-P
05:38:25mick_linuxmy ISP's SMTP server is blacklisted
05:38:48zylchehm.. we need a periodic table for the rockbox, wikipedia is getting worked on :P
05:39:07mick_linuxzylche: what do you mean?
05:39:21zylchea plugin, for finding information on elements, etc
05:39:37mick_linuxReason that my email bounced: Blacklisted site `[]' [Irritated]
05:40:03zylcheanonymous email websites + proxy = anonymous email websites
05:40:14zylche[they usually add ip to bottom, lets not even talk about headers]
05:40:22mick_linuxanonymous email websites? is my ISP's SMTP server, which they require me to use. (using another is against the TOS and I can get my service revoked)
05:41:48mick_linuxso stupid spam filters don't work w/ stupid ISPs :-P
05:42:15mick_linuxi can also not email the selenium ide mailing list (or admins for that matter)
05:42:22mick_linuxargh this stuff irritates me
05:42:33mick_linuxsome types of spam filterrrrring just don't work
05:42:39mick_linuxthis is a perfect example
05:42:59mick_linuxsame w/ that other one that makes you email from an smtp server w/ the same domain
05:43:12mick_linuxnow spamassasin, that kicks
05:43:43zylcheyour isp forces you to use their email, or they'll not allow you internet access?
05:43:59mick_linuxit is to "prevent spam" ;)
05:44:22mick_linuxand i'm serious too
05:44:39mick_linuxstupid people + policies just don't mix
05:45:26zylchehehehe, we all know it's so they can monitor you easier.
05:45:46zylcheI guess if they notice any tor connections they'll think your either a hacker or a pedo?
05:46:21mick_linuxi guess - lol
05:46:59mick_linuxso does anyone know her?
05:47:31mick_linuxif so, can you please relay the message for me that i'd like to help her out w/ the DesktopTools stuff
05:48:08*zylche pokes the channel with a long pointy stick.
05:50:25scorchezylche: hey now....i have Long Pointy Stick trademarked
05:50:42zylcheNot if Pi has anything to do with it.
05:50:48*zylche patents long pointy sticks
05:50:52*zylche patents long pointy sticking
05:50:56*zylche patents long pointy stick things
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06:20:22corevettehow do you install rockbox on an ipod in linux
06:22:17Galoisonly some ipods will work with rockbox
06:24:42scorchecorevette: see the manual
06:24:50GaloisI'd try and
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06:45:09Davo_DinkumIs it possible to completely replace the Apple firmware with rockbox?
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08:18:39jba_hmm ipod linux not support on 4g ipods, aren't 4g ipods really old?
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08:23:43rasherSupported means something different in ipl
08:30:20lexi'm rockboxed again!
08:30:32lexnow i need some fonts, because green5g didn't appear correctly
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08:31:31jbarasher, i just saw that thanks
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09:06:31moshsup :>
09:06:49moshany improvements made with battery use + ipod recently?
09:07:38scorchemosh: there is a changelog on the front page for a reason ;)
09:07:42moshi have a 5g
09:07:54moshhaven't checked in for months :/
09:08:20scorchewell, luckily there are links that will even take you back to the 2.5 release
09:08:35scorcheright above the commit log
09:12:10moshreading through all changes has been a nightmare for me, i never find what i am looking for most goes over my head, wish it wasn't this way but it is...
09:14:01moshi wish there was a script that went through my collection and automaticly grabbed the bmp files for covers correct size and everything, doing it by hand for a big collection has got to suck..
09:18:18rasherThere is not.
09:18:23rasherThere is about 800 of such scripts
09:18:38rasherEach worse than the other
09:18:54moshi started by hand already anyway
09:19:54rasherI ended up writing something by hand that used perl amazon bindings and downloaded every cover it could find, so I had to delete everything I didn't want
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09:20:04moshwhere have you found the best place to get cover bmps?
09:20:06rasherBut that worked out okay for me
09:20:11rasherAmazon and wikipedia
09:20:32rasherIt all depends on your collection of course
09:20:37moshamazon gives jpg, at least firefox saves it that way
09:20:50rasheroh, bmps, well that can be mass-converted later
09:20:59rasherI shouldn't hope any place delivered BMP covers
09:27:37thegeek_imho the best solution is using foobar2000 + run plugin + coverdownloader from hydrogenaudio forums
09:28:05thegeek_if your albums are properly tagged you just rightclick on a song in the album, run coverdownloader and then doubleclick on the the cover that is best, and it is automatically saved
09:28:27thegeek_I've tried a lot of different programs for downloading covers, this works best for me
09:29:36thegeek_coverdownloader also handles a lot of different sites, all handles by python scripts
09:29:42thegeek_so you could even write your own extensions
09:30:26thegeek_amazon, walmart and itunes are the best though
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09:31:52rasherfoobar is annoying though
09:31:55rasherPlus, Windows.
09:32:43thegeek_foobar is the best;P
09:33:12nave7693windows is the best XP
09:33:48thegeek_I wish I had the time to switch to linux as my desktop
09:34:24thegeek_just takes too much time to learn everything again
09:34:59nave7693you didn't think it comes for free right?
09:35:22thegeek_ofcourse not
09:35:26thegeek_that's my entire point
09:35:33thegeek_it's not worth it
09:35:55thegeek_I use linux on my laptop and my servers
09:36:01nave7693well then I guess you are making my point
09:36:12thegeek_no I'm not
09:36:24nave7693then you have already spent the time to learn it
09:36:44thegeek_I know it, just not as well as my windows desktop
09:37:33nave7693just for the desktop, you are better off with windows anyway
09:38:12thegeek_If I were to switch to linux as my desktop fulltime I'd have to redo all the tricks and knowledge I already have
09:38:59nave7693imo some of your tricks or knowledge will never be applicable
09:39:10thegeek_that's my point
09:39:17thegeek_I'd have to redo it all
09:39:22thegeek_custom programs
09:39:24thegeek_custom scripts
09:39:32thegeek_custom everything I use for my desktop
09:39:43thegeek_having to redo it all is just too much work
09:39:45thegeek_not worth it
09:39:48nave7693I'd like to see you custom an itunes, or WMP
09:39:57nave7693just for starters
09:40:03thegeek_itunes and wmp suck
09:40:28nave7693well then what do you use with your windows desktop?
09:40:30thegeek_linux has way superior programs, amarok for example
09:40:35thegeek_I use foobar2000
09:40:39thegeek_with my own custom setup
09:40:58thegeek_for my shell I use litestep with my own theme and custom plugins
09:41:21thegeek_almost all programs I use I've customized and changed to work just how I want it;P
09:41:29nave7693ok then
09:41:52thegeek_modular shell
09:41:57nave7693what's that?
09:41:59thegeek_replaces explorer
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09:42:22thegeek_explorer is the start menu, taskbar and file browser
09:42:35thegeek_litestep replaces it and allows you to write your own plugins that handle all that
09:42:58thegeek_then you can build your own setup
09:43:06thegeek_using scripts or native code
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09:43:53thegeek_the setup I use now is 3-4 years old, if I had to port all that to linux it would take waaay too much time;P
09:46:26nave7693well I guess if your that extreme nothing would suit you better
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11:29:03JdGordonevening all
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11:31:43JdGordonanyone up yet?
11:31:54tychverI haven't been to bed yet...
11:32:00hcsnor have I
11:32:01tychverI live in New Zealand though
11:32:06tychverGMT +12
11:32:16JdGordonso its only 11.30.. not bed time yet
11:32:18hcsGMT -4/5, been up all night
11:32:47moshrasher: do you have a script for dling covers for *nix i don't use windows
11:32:50tychverhcs: tired yet?
11:33:16hcswent to a great concert, ripping and tagging the CDs I bought
11:33:20jbaJdGordon, an auusie also eh?
11:33:54jbasaturday night and i'm trying to get ipl on my ipod 4G. want to still use itunes db, would be much easier if rb could do it
11:34:15JdGordonim sick, so i have an excuse to be here all night
11:34:38jbai'm married with a kid and another not far around the corner
11:34:40rashermosh: not anything useful enough to share.. it was really a one-time thing.. might even have deleted some parts
11:34:45jbaso my excuse beats yours
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11:36:09JdGordonok, you win
11:36:59rasherBut at what cost
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11:37:47JdGordonrasher: not that i really care or anything... but my locaito never made it onto your page ;'(
11:38:40 Quit alberink ("using sirc version 2.211+KSIRC/1.3.12")
11:38:47rasherJdGordon: Hm, strange. I disallow additions from time to time if they look strange, something might have gone wrong. Try again
11:39:05JdGordonit was ages ago, but i never could b bothered chasin it up
11:39:05peturah JdGordon... got a question for ya
11:39:17petursomething's weird with settings saving
11:39:41peturwhen changing a setting and shutting down within the menu it won't save to disk
11:39:42amiconnHrrrm, FLAC is clearly less efficient compression-wise than I hoped... :(
11:40:14rasherJdGordon: I see you on the list. In Melbourne.
11:40:16hcsI am just now learning the exact same thing
11:40:41JdGordonpetur: shutting down while your in the menu? um... i guess its because it doesnt register to save untill exiting the menus, so it makes sence
11:40:44JdGordonrasher: oh ok
11:40:46amiconnAlmost everything I throw at it ends up at 60..70% original size
11:40:48rasherJdGordon: Submissions don't appear instantly - which is explained when you submit
11:41:10peturand I don't know how dircache saves its state but richt now it always gives me a Scanning splash and Moos says this should only happen the first boot
11:41:16amiconnThat is with flac -8 of course
11:41:19JdGordonrasher: no, i sumitted ages ago, like aronud when it firs went online
11:41:46JdGordonpetur: righto, ill check it out
11:42:00rasherJdGordon: Well, you're here on the list. Maybe you had the exact same coordinates as someone else?
11:42:20rasherLet's try the google maps interface of doom
11:43:54amiconnpetur: The config being not saved before leaving the menu has always been the way it works
11:44:30JdGordonamiconn: any chance you'll be able t have a look at the rtc settings code in the next few days please?
11:44:44peturoh, is it?
11:45:09peturhmmm.. and how does dircache actually behave splashwise?
11:45:18amiconnI don't know
11:45:32amiconnYou know, that's a feature I never use...
11:45:36*amiconn hates it
11:48:53pixelmarasher: JdGordon is hidden behind "The Purple Nazz" on the map
11:49:10*JdGordon wonders if pixelma is stalking me...
11:49:20rasherpixelma: Yeah, and it seems my map has a bug..
11:50:04JdGordonamiconn: lets say the only thing in the patch that wasnt ready was the trc settings... is tha a big deal?
11:50:17*JdGordon would really like t get this commited soon
11:55:02n1sheh, my position in the map is about 50km south of where I placed it, and it won't move
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11:55:43pixelmaJdGordon: do you mean the menu settings recoding thing?
11:56:15pixelmaok... I'll test on Ondio then (guess that hasn't been done before...)
11:56:21JdGordonyay :)
11:56:27JdGordonjust bfore you do
11:56:28rashern1s: Sometimes the values get rounded to the nearest int, and I have NO idea why
11:56:45JdGordonnothing at themoment is saved to the RTC... so i dont kow if thats a problem or not
11:56:48rashern1s: you should be able to change it though..
11:56:54JdGordondoes the ondio have rtc ram?
11:56:59pixelmaJdGordon: well the Ondio has no RTC
11:57:06JdGordonok then
11:57:52*JdGordon wonders why the hell theme files are saving relative instead of full path!
11:58:14rasherConfig sector size thing
11:58:18rasherI imagine
11:58:27*jba wonders whi the menu in rockbox isn't able to be themed more like the WPS
11:58:43JdGordonjba: patients... eventually it probably will
11:59:06jbahehe, true that
11:59:13JdGordonrasher: I rekon more code is wasted for the special case to put the full path back, than the RAM needed t store the full path
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11:59:41peturweird... dircache_load() is only called if HAVE_EEPROM_SETTINGS is defined? Or do I miss something?
12:00:16rasherJdGordon: But isn't it because there's little/no room in the config block?
12:00:19n1srasher: tried again "Your update has been recorded, and will be effective once it's been approved."
12:00:21rasherOr am I misunderstanding
12:00:25rashern1s: I'll see
12:00:28JdGordonrasher: ah yes, your correct
12:00:39rashern1s: That worked
12:01:50n1spetur: the dircache will need to scan the disk on every boot to see if the OF has messed with it while if rockbox is flashed ther's no OF and the bootloader usb mode sets some dirty flag or something.
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12:03:16amiconnrasher, JdGordon: There are several reasons why the path is left out.
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12:03:39JdGordonapart from config block size?
12:03:45peturso now I need to figure out why it's not scanning in the background. It should do that in the background, no?
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12:05:30n1spetur: I don't know...
12:05:39amiconnJdGordon: (1) config block size (2) RAM usage in global_settings (3) The path for each kind of file is fixed if it's permanent
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12:05:59amiconnFiles outside the standard path are temporary and not stored in the settings. That's a feature
12:06:26JdGordonso whats the logic in saving the full path into the cfg file?
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12:07:01rashern1s: Looks like I lied to you. You are still at the old .00000 location. It seems I have more bugs.
12:08:01amiconnJdGordon: Huh?
12:08:23n1srasher: oh... well doesn't matter really
12:08:45JdGordonthe full path for the wps is saved t the .cfg file. if the path is fixed this isnt needed?
12:09:01JdGordonunless the cvs build im using isnt really cvs
12:09:04amiconnHmm, I guess that needs more cleanup then, and a decision...
12:09:10peturSlasheri: ping?
12:09:23JdGordon# .cfg file created by rockbox 061126-1731 -
12:09:25rashern1s: Well, I hate buggy code..
12:10:54rashern1s: The weirdest part is why your location got truncated in the first place. It happens randomly that all submissions during a 4-5 hour period are truncated to ints, after that, I get proper submissions again.
12:11:31n1sso it's a "fun" bug :-)
12:11:50amiconnJdGordon: Well, config files can set values which aren't stored permanently, so I guess it makes sense
12:12:35amiconnSome questions arise:
12:12:46JdGordonyeah, full path is saved currently, I'd be happy to break that
12:12:52amiconn(1) Which is better, storing the file without path in global_settings and let every module concatenate path & filename, or store the full path in ram as well?
12:12:57JdGordonbut I can do it in a way to make it sort of work
12:13:23amiconn(2) Do we want to keep the feature that everything outside the standard dirs is temporary?
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12:14:22JdGordonwell, the current way (cvs) is exactly (1) which works, but the saving to disk will need special cases which arent so nice
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12:14:38JdGordonbut that could be hacked into the settins list for the items
12:14:43JdGordonso no real big deal
12:14:48JdGordontiny size bump tho
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12:15:07rasherThis is the phrase that makes amiconn explode.
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12:16:21JdGordonamiconn: ok, im goi to keep backwards copatibility.. i know an easy ay to do it, seen as tge default for all these files are "" I can use that string to save the path
12:16:30JdGordonunless in the future we want nicer default themes
12:16:53linuxstbI think it would be nice to allow users to store files outside .rockbox if they want to - i.e. drop the hard-coded paths.
12:17:12JdGordonand up the mem usage to MAX_PATH for each setting?
12:17:41rasherHow many path settings are there?
12:17:45Slasheripetur: pong
12:17:59rasherAnd can't you already (in theory) risk having a 255 character filename within .rockbox?
12:18:01JdGordonrasher: 7
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12:18:13rasherHow large is the buffer currently?
12:18:24JdGordonso yes, easy to overflow it
12:18:32*jba 's 5 cents worth, i like being forced to keep all my "alternate" os files in one location, makes it easier to housclean
12:18:34peturSlasheri: is it normal for dircache to always show the Scanning splash at boot?
12:18:38Slasheripetur: dircache state can't be loaded from disk unless eeprom is used by rockbox
12:18:40rasherJdGordon: Is it checked for overflow?
12:18:50Slasheripetur: no, that seems to be a bug with ipods at least
12:19:00Slasherii just noticed it myself too
12:19:01peturI have it here too (h340)
12:19:12JdGordonrasher: yes
12:19:23Slasheriah, weird.. then i haven't noticed it because i had rockbox in flash on h140
12:19:28*amiconn tries to find out how important that feature is...
12:19:30peturit happened after I disabled it and then re-enabled. It was working fine before that I think
12:19:34rasherwell, not so easy to overflow it then.. Just.. pretty limiting
12:19:37linuxstbWell, reducing the size of paths stored in RAM is a good reason to keep the limit, so I don't mind either way.
12:19:41JdGordonrasher: actually.. not really
12:19:45Slasheribut can't fix it until next week because i forget the apple usb cable in work place
12:20:24Slasheripetur: but if you could find the problem, please fix it :)
12:20:25peturI was having a peek but I'm new to the code and now real-life ended my trial anyway :/
12:20:29amiconnOne important point is that .cfg files used to store full path, which should be kept that way imho
12:20:30JdGordonits either increase of RAM by about 2kb or increase of bin size for the special cases
12:20:33linuxstbSlasheri: Buy yourself a cheap dock to keep at home...
12:20:38peturmaybe later today
12:20:48amiconnBut now we're using a .cfg file for the bootup config as well, which implies loading the full path
12:20:52*JdGordon is happy eother way
12:20:52Slasherilinuxstb: yeah, i need to buy a second cable at least..
12:21:01Slasherinow it's pain to always carry the cable with
12:21:01*petur runs off again for duties...
12:21:18amiconn...because the bootup .cfg shouldn't be any more special apart from its name
12:21:44JdGordonfine.. full path it is
12:22:00amiconnIn .cfg, definitely.
12:22:09amiconnThe question is what to do in RAM
12:22:17amiconnHow many such paths do we mave?
12:22:20JdGordontoss a coin?
12:22:26JdGordon7 worse case
12:22:28linuxstbWhy do we need the full path in the .cfg, if it's relative to a hard-coded path?
12:22:29amiconn(Most important on the low-ram targets)
12:23:03amiconnlinuxstb: .cfg isn't relative to hard-coded path
12:23:23linuxstbAh, so you can load something temporarily?
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12:24:08JdGordonyes, and what will happen is a possibly non-existant filename will be saved to the cfg file
12:24:16JdGordonwhich means no wps next load
12:24:41amiconnThen rockbox will fall back to the built-in default
12:24:57JdGordonyeah... thats what i meant by none
12:25:08amiconnI tend to think that storing the full path internally would be better, even if it costs RAM :/
12:25:48amiconnIt would make it easier to fall back to the previous file if the new one fails (e.g. for backdrop)
12:25:51JdGordonbin usage would be about 40bytes extra for each setting if we want t keep ram usage donw
12:26:06JdGordon+ code to handle it
12:26:30JdGordonactually, less than 40bytes..
12:26:36amiconn...which isn't possible with the current solution. Now rb cannot fall back if the previous background was temporary
12:26:52JdGordon /path/realtive/to/.rockbox/%s.<ext> would be saved for each
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12:29:10JdGordonso... decision?
12:29:58pixelmaJdGordon: first impression... argh - I don't want the settings to _not_ update live
12:30:34amiconnLive settings is a must
12:31:25pixelmaalso the default display contrast for Ondio (probably other Archoses) is much too high (set to 40 - while I turn it to 29/30) and somehow changing it only moved the tick
12:32:11pixelma(I run the build with Rolo though - shouldn't make a difference but maybe it does?)
12:32:18JdGordonits useing the DEFAULT_CONTRAST_SETTING define.. so maybe thats too high...
12:32:29amiconnProbably the new settings code doesn't properly ask the lcd driver for the default contrast
12:32:55amiconnJdGordon: The default contrast on archos isn't fixed, it can be one of 2 values depending on hardware version
12:33:29pixelmaJdGordon: but changing has no visible effect - only the tick moves, the contrast doesn't get changed
12:34:16amiconnI wonder why you don't compare to how existing code works.... it's not the first time... :/
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12:34:28JdGordondoes the contrsat setting have a callback?
12:34:39JdGordonamiconn: last conut there was 180 odd settings, i cant check every one
12:34:46JdGordonespecially when i dont have every target
12:35:08JdGordonthis is why im here asking for help...
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12:36:34pixelmaah... JdGordon: when I leave the settings menu it gets changed - another disadvantage of the settings not being live I guess
12:36:57JdGordonpixelma: can you try changing the second NULL to lcd_set_contrast in settins_list.c line 186?
12:37:07JdGordonthat shuold make it work when you move the tick
12:39:18pixelmahmm... if this was also the flyspray task I commented on I had those problems in other settings to - I'll try sound setting and so on first
12:39:48*JdGordon hasnt had any emails from flyspray on that patch since yesterday
12:39:59pixelmait's been a while
12:40:09JdGordonthen its a diffrent one...
12:41:46amiconnJdGordon: For the default contrast, you need to call lcd_default_contrast()
12:42:00amiconnOn archos this returns either 49 or 31 depending on hw version
12:42:18JdGordoncant really do that with this code...
12:42:28JdGordonsplit the diff and go 37?
12:44:26pixelmaah.. sound setting are updated live...
12:45:18JdGordonso he general consensus is store full path in RAM ?
12:45:21pixelmasorry for the false alarm (maybe I mixed it in my mind with the other patch because of the "ticks")
12:45:44JdGordonbut i tihnk alot of the settings are not live
12:46:18JdGordonand stuff which need a function call wont happen untill exiting the menu until they are noticed and fixed, like contrast
12:46:37amiconnJdGordon: I wonder why... iirc this isn't the only setting with a dynamic default.
12:47:01JdGordonbecause it never even occured to me?
12:47:06JdGordonwhich others have?
12:47:09amiconnYou can't simply choose the average. 40 is way too dark on newer units (where the default would be 31), and way too bright on older units
12:47:23amiconnThat's why there is that funtction
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12:48:16JdGordonok, if the functio pointer is type cast to an int then it can be handled fine
12:48:38JdGordonstill got 20 odd bits of the flag int spare
12:48:39amiconnAll sound settings for instance...
12:48:53JdGordonsound is fine because thats handled with special code for all of them
12:49:06JdGordonthis adds theneed for obscure cases
12:49:24amiconnglobal_settings.volume = sound_default(SOUND_VOLUME);
12:50:02JdGordonint flags; /* ____ ____ ____ ____ TFRV SRTS HRSC STTT */ <- need a better way to visualise this int :p
12:50:17pixelmaJdGordon: otherwise the patch seems to be ok - settings got stored and loaded correctly when I rebooted and rolo'ed in again
12:50:26JdGordonyay :)
12:50:38JdGordoncan you run it for a few dyas and let me know if anythin else is funny?
12:50:41amiconnBtw, RoLo needs to be split in high-level and low-level part
12:50:44pixelmawill test a bit further though ;)
12:50:48amiconnThe current implementation is dirty
12:51:14amiconnJdGordon: What would the patch store in rtc ram?
12:51:24JdGordonI dont know
12:51:34JdGordonanything thatneeds to be set before reading from disk
12:51:42amiconnImho the rtc ram should only store the most volatile values, in order to save the need for a spinup on powerdown
12:52:17pixelmaJdGordon: I will - should I also try the code change in settings_list.c or are you going to rewrite anyway?
12:52:22amiconnOh, and those values as well. Only applies to car adapter mode afair
12:52:35JdGordonpixelma: ill put a new patch up in a little while
12:52:51amiconnJdGordon: The volatile values are the two runtime values (current and top) and the resume position
12:54:59amiconnHow are these values saved now for targets without non-volatile memory?
12:55:06JdGordonto disk
12:55:12JdGordonthey will be stored to both
12:55:23JdGordonatm nothing has the rtc flag set
12:55:51amiconnTo disk? In what form? Separate binary file?
12:55:59JdGordonno, in the cfg file
12:56:34amiconnThe patch saves the whole .cfg on every spinup then? Not good imo...
12:56:57JdGordonwhats the difference? it doesnt ever spin it up espeaiclly to save
12:57:16JdGordonthere is provisions to only save certain settings to a seperate .cfg file
12:57:51amiconnNo, but it saves the _whole_ .cfg which can be huge and is rather complex, on every spinup
12:58:14amiconnTargets w/o non-volatile memory should save those settings into a separate _binary_ file
12:58:46JdGordonso when do you do a ful save? just shutdown?
12:58:59amiconnNo, on shutdown or config change it is now
12:59:20JdGordondo settings need to be flushed at all then?
12:59:24amiconnBut the volatile values don't trigger a main config save, only a binary settings save
12:59:43amiconnJdGordon: Yes. Battery might run out before shutdown
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13:01:03amiconnI don't see these values as "rtc settings" but rather as special "binary settings" which need to be handled specially (saved often, needed before ata init, or other)
13:01:57amiconnThis doesn't only apply to targets with rtc ram, but to all others, independent of whether they have non-volatile memory (H1x0 eeprom comes to mind) or not (then it's a separate binary file)
13:02:31JdGordonthere is a flag for sytem settings which could happily go into a seperate .cfg or bin file, and a flag for rtc, both can be used together... its just a mattr of whch flags to use for each setting
13:04:24***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
13:20:42JdGordonok, the code to handle functiions for the min/max/default is in
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13:24:08JdGordonanyone know any setings which use a funcitno for the default/min/max values instyead of defiens
13:24:13JdGordonwhich is usedd on the h300/
13:24:32daurnimatorhey JdGordon
13:24:40amiconnlcd contrast, remote contrast and all sound settings
13:24:44daurnimatori got to try out rockbox yesterday
13:24:54daurnimator - installed it on a friend's mum's ipod
13:26:24amiconnThese special cases exist on all targets, even though e.g. the lcd contrast functions do just return a constant
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13:27:31KasperleSlasheri: i reformatted and it does work better now ;)
13:27:57JdGordonok, i tik it works correctly
13:29:21SlasheriKasperle: nice :
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13:35:52JdGordonhow do you type cast to a funcition typedef? its not working
13:39:00JdGordonv nice usb logo btw
13:39:05JdGordonwhen did that come in?
13:40:49linuxstbcvs log apps/screens.c - 20th November.
13:40:50amiconn20 Nov 10:56
13:41:13JdGordonok, well its v nice
13:41:50*petur points at pixelma
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13:46:44peturSlasheri: seems the dircache behaviour is by design: it always scans in the foreground because dircache_initialized is only set when either loaded from disk or done a rebuild. And the rebuild is done in main directly, not by posting a message to the dircache queue (which is what I would have expected).
13:47:37amiconnIirc dircache once scanned in the background when the expected cache size was known
13:47:54amiconnThat's another candidate for binary settings...
13:48:01peturI find no evidence of that
13:48:45peturanyway, my time's out for the moment but I should be pingable ;)
13:49:06*amiconn starts a 'ping -t petur' ;)
13:52:11JdGordonok, the bloody sim is crashiing and i dont know why, and tis not the code i've just added
13:52:28JdGordonalso my keyboard needs new batteris and im too lazy to go downstaiirs and gt :p
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13:56:09Slasheripetur: yes, if cache size is already known (loaded from the config), dircache is scanned in the background
13:56:14Slasheriso that is certainly a bug
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13:58:34Kasperlei'm finally able to test drive rockbox. yay :D
13:59:07JdGordonon the 5.5g?
13:59:47JdGordonyays :D:
13:59:48Kasperle(30 GB)
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14:01:53peturSlasheri: ok, so it seems dircache_size is always 0
14:01:58*petur runs off again
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14:02:17Slasheriah, so it does not get saved correctly then
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14:06:15rogrHi all. Just started with rockbox. It seems that tools/mkboot.c is only for iriver. I was after patching an X5 firmware. Any clues?
14:06:20heyJuliusDo anyone know why my X5 won't register usb, when I connect it it shows the icon, but thats it, no detection in windows
14:08:45 Quit Gnelik (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
14:09:02Kasperlehmmm. rockbox seems to think it's still good for 8hours 20minutes on 93% battery on the 5.5g that's not too bad. i'm gonna benchmark it over night
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14:16:53n1srogr: there's no patching for x5 'cause it doesn't have dualboot officially.
14:17:06rogryes but what about single boot
14:18:12rogrbut that is binary. Can't I patch it?
14:18:26n1swhat are you trying to do?
14:19:13rogrI created the bootloader.bin from the rockbox-dev sources. I just want to patch it with a mkboot utility. I think that's the way it works right ?
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14:20:42n1soh, maybe the scramble tool? not sure really
14:21:09rogrscramble? hmm, I'll check
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14:21:45JdGordonpixelma: new patch versioo is up
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14:22:31pixelmaJdGordon: I'm sorry I have to leave in a few minutes - no time to compile and put the build on now
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14:23:38JdGordonok, no prob
14:24:44daurnimatorJdGordon: you going to lca?
14:25:20daurnimatorlinux conf au
14:25:37JdGordonim not _that_ much of a geeek :p
14:25:49daurnimatorsure you are
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14:26:43JdGordonwell... in that case.... screw you guys, im goii to bed!
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14:33:11rogrn1s: It worked "./scramble -iaudiox5 bootloader.bin x5_fw.bin". Thanks very much for the help!
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15:27:09peturstrange, global_settings.dircache_size is zero at startup and settings_save() gets called at shutdown, where it has a nonzero value.
15:27:41zylcheis it getting loaded then?
15:28:57peturstill splashing around ;)
15:30:54*petur kicks cygwin a bit
15:33:20peturafaics, it saves a non-zero value and loads a zero value :(
15:36:14peturor maybe not
15:37:26peturis the order in user_settings important compared to the position in the bit_entry struct?
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15:57:48petursettings.c save_bit_table() (around line 930): doesn't the way the value is extracted from global_settings assumes that value is aligned on boundary of its type? Extracting a 32bit value assumes it is on a 32bit boundary because it accesses it at offset/4 but it could be non-aligned?
15:58:17*petur pings devs who know the settings code
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16:02:33peturhmmmm offset looks to be on a boundary
16:06:07LearDoesn't gcc always put them on "natural" alignment, unless told otherwise?
16:06:32peturprobably, otherwise that coulde would never work
16:08:55*petur knows M$ VisualC and VB do it differntly and remembers a fine bug in passing structs among them :)
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16:14:07peturI don't understand this anymore: in save_bit_table, I see the correct data and in load_bit_table it is zero ... grrrr
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16:17:55LearWhat setting, and what target?
16:18:09peturdircache_size on my h340
16:18:31peturthe effect is that you always get the Scanning message at startup
16:19:40LearYes, I can understand that... Can you see if the bits are saved properly?
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16:20:20peturvalue is ok, haven't checked the actual bits *adds another splash*
16:26:45LearBtw, seems to be fine on my H140...
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16:27:29peturI think it was here too, until I disabled it (+ reboot) and re-enabled
16:27:59*petur blames Moos for bringing it to his attention
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16:29:07LearSounds like it could be a problem with a particular alignment; i.e., the bits crosses a byte/word/long in a bad way...
16:30:35peturtrying to understand the code now...
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16:55:59peturafaics, it writes the bitfield ok (long_index 27, bit_index 0 -> no boundary crossing)
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17:00:35LearStill reads as zero? From get_bits, or did you check somewhere else?
17:01:20peturjust added the same debug prints in get_bits, just a sec...
17:02:11*petur remembers to mask the value in order to read it
17:04:00peturwoha.. get_bits reads the value ok
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17:07:43peturadding all this debug code and now the bloody thing works :(
17:09:21peturwait, I just tested this using rolo iso power up/down
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17:16:09peturnada... get_bits reads zero, so the value actually never makes it to the disk
17:17:05peturcan somebody take a note of this or should I add it to the bug tracker?
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17:26:45peturI gotta go now, bughunters can look here:
17:26:59 Quit petur ("later!")
17:27:17rockerManhi , question: does rockbox use external chip for mp3 decompression ?
17:28:18LearOn Archos yes, otherwise no.
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17:49:59[g2]how's rockbox on the Sansa e260 ?
17:52:33 Quit _Veseliq_ (Remote closed the connection)
17:54:45PaulPositiong2 - You'd need to ask Gnelik or Dan_a or Barrywardell about that. Or read the thread in the new ports section of the forum..
17:55:16PaulPositionI think none of them is here right now.. But if you're asking wether it's useable, I think not yet.
17:55:24[g2]PaulPosition thx, any clue what TZs they are in ?
17:55:58[g2]GMT +/- #
17:57:07PaulPositionI wouldn't really know.. I'd say in the evening, GMT0 .. ?? Like in a few hours. But can't say for sure.
17:57:53PaulPositiong2 - Oh... You can also search the irc backlog at the site...
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17:58:36PaulPositiong2 - Will give you both the last few words on the sansa e2xx series AND an idea of when they're actually on.
18:03:46 Join |AhIoRoS| [0] (n=ahioros@
18:04:15bluebrother[g2], have a look at the IrcNicks wiki page. A couple of names have their timezone added
18:04:41 Quit rockerMan ()
18:05:19[g2]bluebrother I'm aware of the 20 IRC channel limit on freenode, but I've never been to IrcNicks
18:05:55bluebrother20 irc channel limit? I'm referring to the rockbox wiki page
18:07:06 Part linuxstb ("Leaving")
18:07:09[g2]yeah you can only join 20 channels simultaneously on freenode without special permission from a single nick
18:07:57[g2]bluebrother thx's for url btw
18:08:34bluebrotherI didn't get the conjuction between the limit and the timezone thing. Never mind.
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18:46:26*preglow vows to stop drinking
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18:56:49*Davide-NYC has done that before
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19:14:04*ender` yawns
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21:52:15z35where can I get the rom file to flash the rockbox, do i just use the ajbrec.ajz file?
21:54:16z35flash an archos recorder to rockbox?
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21:57:41z35ahh, nm play the rockbox.ucl ...
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22:06:11vanbergeare there any rockbox devs in here currently?
22:06:20vanbergeplease say yes
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22:08:11vanbergei just wanted to say thank you! :-) to anyone who helped with rockbox. Its seriously the coolest thing i've ever seen
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22:09:51*Bagder says yes
22:10:16vanbergewell, thank you badger :-P
22:12:02vanbergeBagder, so are you one of the devs?
22:12:13BagderI am, yes
22:12:32BagderI've been on this since the start actually
22:13:31vanbergewell, i wanted to come on here and pay my respects. i loaded it onto my ipod about a week ago and i love it.
22:13:55vanbergei struggled with ipl for a long time... was never really happy with the product.
22:14:54Bagderyes, well we have quite different focus and goals I think
22:15:41vanbergedifferent maybe - but also similar - put an alternative OS onto a music player.
22:15:51Bagderyes, sure
22:16:38vanbergeyou guys ever need assistance?
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22:16:51vanbergei have a I.S. / programming background
22:17:07Bagderwe're all volunteers so we need all the hands and help we can get
22:17:23Bagderwherever you can and feel like contributing
22:17:26vanbergei'll have to check the source out.... i assume it is C ?
22:17:36Bagdermostly C with small parts in asm
22:18:02vanbergewell i'll see about starting to get involved
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23:46:10dshierwhy is the battery life on the ipod so low
23:46:22Ribs'cos rockbox doesn't use both CPUs yet
23:46:39Ribsso it uses the one CPU at fuller capacity than what it normally uses
23:46:39Kasperlethat's not the reason i'd say ;)
23:46:45Ribsthus, more power usage
23:46:56Ribsthat's my guess, Kasperle
23:46:57dshierkasperle what do you think
23:46:59Kasperlebut i know nothing ;)
23:47:07Ribsif you know better, please enlighten us :)
23:47:21Kasperlei think that rockbox simply does not support all the power management features the hardware supports
23:47:21dshierwhen is rockbox going to utilize that second CPU
23:47:35Ribsdshier, work has already started
23:47:42RibsI think some framework is there already
23:47:49dshierso is are the dailybuilds battery life any good
23:47:53Ribsbut I have no idea what kind of priority that thing is
23:48:26dshiero ok
23:49:23 Quit miepchen^schlaf (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
23:50:19dshierso it sounds like work is getting done
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