Document drop: more PEF titles targeted for layoff



Master List of Targeted Titles Undated

  1. NikkieFinn says:

    I agree 100% with pre1981reagan! It wasn’t the PEF leadership who went out
    with their propaganda and rallied for No votes. It was the sullen E-board
    members who voted not to send the contract to the membership and were shot
    down. For these people to stand outside the PEF Contract Forums handing out
    their green sheets and not informing people who they were or what they
    were about is criminal. These E-board members should be held to task for
    handing their garbage out and making it seem like it was coming from the PEF
    leadership. At no time when handing these sheets out did they explain
    they’re part of “PEF Proud” and that they have their own personal agendas.
    I know one individual who is looking to run for some type of office, such as Region 8
    Coordinator. My advice is when you see their names, be sure to vote against
    them. I just spoke with an office yesterday in my building who thought
    these sheets were PEF’s advice. This is what happens when a few disgruntled
    people are allowed near a copier. In the future folks, when you’re handed
    something, please be sure to ask who’s opinion it is your reading.

  2. NYS Techie says:

    Here’s what you can expect as a result of Cuomo’s layoffs (the 3500 he’s doing now, and the thousands more that are coming due to SAGE).

    The first thing you can expect is chaos. As headcount in IT departments is cut, sometimes by up to half, and additional workers are lost due to retirement, the remaining staff will be demoralized and angry, and productivity will decline sharply. Managers don’t know anything about programming or systems management, and they’ll try to get the remaining workers to take up the workload of those that have departed. This will not work. Workers will do THEIR jobs first, and additional work as time permits (putting it at the bottom of their pile). A long backlog of undone work will form. Out of title work will be rejected, by grievance if necessary.

    NOTE: UNLIKE in private industry, you cannot alter a state worker’s hours on any permanent basis without his permission, as those hours are set by contractual agreement. You can make him work late only in emergencies (where “emergency” is defined correctly, i.e. something is on fire, or exploding, or the Russians are coming. As a matter of fact, that’s a good rule of thumb: if nothing is on fire, it’s probably not an emergency). So mandatory O/T isn’t going to dig you out of this hole. THAT nonsense only works on nurses and cops, and nurses got a law passed barring it.

    Next, ALL THE SMART PEOPLE WILL LEAVE. This is an old Dilbert joke, but the reason it’s funny is because it’s TRUE. Everyone whose resume is worth anything will leave for the private sector. Nobody with a computer science degree or an engineering degree NEEDS a state job. So most of the people who are the most capable will depart, and live happily ever after somewhere ELSE. They probably won’t be paying NYS taxes anymore, either.

    Next, everyone able to retire will leave. It’s already beginning. Several people have already retired from MY agency. This will impact headcount even more than the layoffs.

    WITHIN TWO YEARS, you’ll see the state’s ability to provide services significantly DECLINE. The governor won’t care. He’ll be busy declaring an emergency and outsourcing everything he can, handing the contracts to political allies. Nobody will notice any of this until it’s too late.

    And THAT, my private-sector conversational partners, is the point where ALL YOUR TAXES GO UP TO PAY FOR IT. But it’ll be an emergency, so the governor will get away with it.

    I’ll tell you I told you so in a few years.

  3. pre1981reagan says:

    Frequent Visitor John:

    Yeah you know of many more people that witnessed pressure to vote NO.

    Yep and I am sure there are many here that heard members push to vote YES.
    (Let’s see: Robo calls from PEF, meetings where PEF pushed for a YES vote or were they nutural?)

    Response: I said stewards and executive board members were out there presurring a no vote. The leadership of a union always has to inform us and recommend a yes vote when they agree to a contract. See the UAW leadership King for example.

    And the black choppers are above your home.

    Response: Seriously, when other posters on this blog have witnessed this too?

    What folks don’t seem to understand is that nothing is going to stop these layoffs.

    Response: Based on what evidence?

  4. ResidentX says:

    pre1981reagan, what evidence do you have that they will indeed occur? other than the notices have been issued? You mean like all the previous times and those were also rescinded. Same logic for you man.

    and… werent you one of those who talked about Cuomo says what he does and does what he says? Well… hes on record in writing his book and campaigning on cutting the state work force by 20%. There are more facts pointing to the layoffs actually occurring regardless of the vote than their are saying yes would prevent layoffs.

    simple… how does he justify saying AND HIS DIRECTORS SAYING that the positions targeted wont affect services etc .. and funding them anyway? He cant. Plain and simple… if they are saying these positions are unnecessary they are then unnecessary regardless of the contract. Someone a little short in the intellectual department would argue other wise.

  5. Government Gangsters says:

    Retired Engineer:
    “The only problem is that in all probability the one-third rule applies as it does in most statistical analysis. One-third of PEF workers are very conscientious hard working folks, one-third essentially work-to-rule and the other one-third essentially show up and do as little as possible.”

    I’d say that’s pretty accurate. Put me into the one third who’s saying bye-bye even if the layoffs are rescinded. I feel dirty every time I leave my building. Done with it. At least in the private sector you can sniff out the backstabbers and adjust accordingly. Who would have thought your own union members would be OK with sacrificing you to make a stubborn point?

  6. pre1981reagan

    (Me)What folks don’t seem to understand is that nothing is going to stop these layoffs.

    (you)Response: Based on what evidence?

    Just from the notices that went out already would be a good indicator.

    Also the time frame involved to even get a ballot out yet again to the members to vote on ( The 3496 will be out on the street by then LAID OFF)

    If they can bring them back it will be only if the PEF members vote a MAJORITY of YES to the concessions etc. and have greater numbers than the NO voters that still see no difference in the contract proposal other than its length.

    It was all printed in the TU for all to read was it not?

    The vote will tell, but a question for you: If the contract is approved etc. do you really think the State of New York will re-call those laid off workers?

    Remember now, many will have gotten jobs elsewhere, many will have applied for benefits, many will not see the State of New York as a “Safe Job” any longer, and you and others add your reasons here:___________________________________

  7. anyman says:

    The idea that anyone could be successfully “pressured” to vote one way or another is ludicrous on its face. It’s a secret ballot, mailed in a sealed envelope to an impartial third party from the comfort and security of the voter’s own home. They could lie to your face about how they actually voted and you would have no way of knowing for sure how they voted one way or another. Pressure? Give me a break.

  8. Heart Broken says:

    My husband, who will be out of work on the 19th, works in a unit of 3 people. He is laid off, the other member is retiring in Dec. That leaves the unit supervisor. Management was not consulted before the pink slips went out. The impact on the work that is done in these agencies, units, etc., was never considered. They simply looked at titles that could not bump back to a CSEA title and let them go. And my husband’s unit is also involved in safety. Health and Safety have been targeted, nothing is safe.

  9. NYS Techie says:

    Are we REALLY talking about “black choppers” on this blog? I thought we were talking seriously about a serious topic?

    Listen, you want me to clear up the whole “black chopper” thing for you once and for all? It’s EASY, if you’ve ever ridden in a military or government owned chopper.

    When I was in the Marines, we used to ride in CH-46es everywhere. The paint scheme was usually olive drab with black markings (“Marines”, the chopper’s ID number, etc). Whenever you weren’t right next to one, they looked REALLY DARK and you couldn’t see the markings unless you were looking for them. This effect is more pronounced the more contrast there is with the sky (like on a bright day, or at sunset).

    Navy blue helicopters look the same way at a distance. Your eye sees the silhouette, not the color, especially when there’s a lot of contrast with the background or you’re squinting because you’re looking UP IN THE SKY, WHERE THE SUN IS.

    Helicopters owned by the military or a civilian agency don’t usually care about your house. They generally aren’t even looking at it. They’re on their way somewhere else, usually for training, or maintenance, or just to keep the pilot’s hours in flight up to maintain his license.

    Of course, sometimes they’re going around counting swimming pools so the town can update their property tax rolls. They do this now and then down in Rockland. In which case they MIGHT be interested in your house, but only in the hopes of getting a little more money out of you.

    And sometimes, if you live near a highway, you’re seeing a state police helicopter measuring the speed of cars so they can ticket speeders. I heard they do that occasionally. You’ve seen those signs “speed limits enforced by aircraft” right? Isn’t their official color a dark navy blue?

    The point is, people assume all this nefarious activity when really, it’s just a helicopter flying around for reasons unknown. There’s no reason to assume there’s anything weird going on.

    Next time you see a helicopter flying past your house, instead of assuming the U.N. is coming to get you, how about you say “Hey, cool, a helicopter” and relax? Take a picture if you like, helicopters are cool.

    To paraphrase Freud, sometimes a helicopter is just a helicopter.

  10. NYS Techie
    To paraphrase Freud, sometimes a helicopter is just a helicopter.

    You may know that and I may know that, but it does not occur to others that they are just a helicopter.

    It was as always an anology of what another poster had written about knowing this or that. Reading is Fundemential is it not?

    Repeat after me, There are no black copters flying over my house, there are no black copters flying over my house……. :-)

  11. Still Voting No says:


    really, you link some obscure blog by one person who only says he voted no and that others would campaign against it but you do not show anyone actually campaigning against it do you not from PEF. Can we say hear say.

    here is an actual news story that has PEF leadership stating the contract is better than a triburough – so I think I’ll stick to my guns as you have no proof otherwise do you?

  12. Tool of the State says:

    Nice going TU. Once again your misrepresentation of the news astounds me. If you ppl(commentors) are through slammming one another you might realize that despite the headline this is a continuation of the incomplete list reported last week not “New Targets”. But, hey TU, you’ll get to 200,000 useless comments soon. 2/3 of these are.

    @ Yet another PEF member
    Be careful. Garbage in/Garbage out. You raise an interesting point though which illustrate how damaging this situation really is to Cuomo. We heard of Wisconsin. But they aren’t hearing about NY. This situation is not carried in any national news organizations (that I have seen anyway) and it doesn’t surprise me that the other areas of the state aren’t reporting on it either. You wouldn’t want wonderbot to get a black eye on jobs before his national debut.

  13. sumner says:

    Here we go again..YES voters say that NO voters either didn’t fully understand the contract costs and give backs, mistakenly believed the layoff threat, were not as smart as YES voters who have ALL the answers (just ask them).

    Anyone that feels that the healthcare costs is a deal breaker will continue to be disappointed. 70% of membership voted. The margin of defeat was about 3,000 votes. I am not at risk and will vote YES again, pay some more for Health Insurance and not trigger layoffs by my vote. If my co-worker can have a job a few more weeks (until the SAGE commission results) I see that as a positive.. even if it’s a few more days.

    When it comes to being unemployed and looking for a job.. later is always better.

    Union to me doesn’t mean get what I can for myself and then when the time comes screw those at risk. We benefit from collective bargaining because of our numbers. You can’t be a fair weather member and go for self when times are not good.

    I keep seeing NO voters talking like YES voters don’t fully understand the cost of the give backs or Health Insurance. It is fully understood. We just came to a different conclusion.

    The NBA average salary was 330,000 in 1985, didn’t break 1 mil until 1992. Its been 5 mil for the last 5 years and players are willing to see a season cancel before giving anything back. The public doesn’t understand union mentality and are supporting every Governor that has gone after unions and their Collective Bargaining rights (Wisconsin public sector workers lost theirs February 2011)

    `Years from now NO voters will continue to post how layoffs were not their fault. That it was Cuomo, Obama, Global Warming.. The bottom line is signing the contract there COULD have still been layoffs if economic conditions didn’t change. NO voters want to believe.. I’m not sure what they believe except they don’t want to give up anything, say YES voters are uninformed idiots and will not be ‘bullied’. They just need to stop talking like NO voters are ‘Keeper of the Flame’ put here to educate mis-guided YES voters.

    When someone’s fire house closes to be consolidated with one across town or a town has to pay a permanent police force because the State police no longer have the manpower to provide that service.. maybe the tune changes. As usual it will be too little too late.

    The pot will NOT be sweetened. So, Vote your conscience. As will I if we get a chance to vote.

  14. Tools of the State says:

    And I am so sick of hearing aboout the children starving – “I lost my job and cant feed them.” ugh

    ‘Are there no prisons?’ asked Scrooge.





    ‘Both very busy, sir.’

  15. Casey Seiler, Capitol bureau chief says:

    Tool of the State: We were hoping that when we wrote “Here’s a 12-page supplement to last week’s list of more than 2,000 titles held by PEF members targeted for layoffs. Again, this is not the full and complete list of eliminated titles, but an addition to last week’s report” it would clear up any confusion.

    Why do you write “ppl” and then follow it with “commentors”? Why not go to the trouble of writing “people”?

  16. NYS Techie says:

    @Government Gangsters: What backstabbers? We told you we were going to vote NO, then we voted NO, then we told you that we voted NO. Then we told you why.

    We looked you in the eyes the whole time.

    Incidentally, who exactly was stabbed? Nobody’s even been laid off yet. Don’t you think you’re being a little bit dramatic here?

  17. Stand Together says:

    My bureau has had 35 retirements in the last 18 months with no back-fill. Now we are getting hit with 18 lay-offs. Management has been locked in a room all week trying to determine what programs and services are not legally mandated so that they can be eliminated. I hope the governor gets blindsided when the public backlash occurs because services they depend on are no longer available.

  18. Casey Seiler, Capitol bureau chief

    ppl, People who need ppl, are the luckiest people in the world.

    I guess Barbara Streisand will have no “commentors” on my using her song.

    All kidding aside, some folks just don’t read what is right in front of their faces. You did a good job with the reporting, don’t let it bother you :-)

  19. Tools of the State says:

    duh – I dunno

  20. Tools of the State says:

    I get it but your headline implies new targeting – which will be coming.

  21. Country101 says:

    I’ve read alot of comments where people feel the blame game should be set aside and real negotiations that everyone can live with should be on the forefront. Unfortunately, our governor will not negotiate, in the true sense, any further. He has stated many times over if it’s not revenue neutral, he won’t agree to it. Therefore, the best PEF can hope to do is cut the length of the proposed contract from 5 to 3 yrs. Anything else would result, in one way or another, as a cost of some kind.

    …oh…and by the way…I’ve just learned that the same governor who’d rather lay off our state workers in the interest of saving taxpayers dollars is looking to obtain a new vehicle to ride around our slumping state in.

    …a hybrid, you might ask?…or…maybe even a highway smart crossover…?

    NOOOO. Don’t be silly! Nothing nearly that sensible!

    He’s looking to get a gas guzzling, outrageously priced, show stopping, jaw dropping statemnt maker. A TAHOE!!! Yes folks…a TAHOE. Now, doesn’t that just boil your blood into a thick pudding?! That’s front page gold right there! Hint Hint!!

    It’s funny though…now that the end date is near for those who received layoff notices…there won’t be anyone in the office to accomodate his reqeust for a new chariot.

    I mean seriously…a TAHOE?? I feel ill.

  22. Voting No says:

    On the fence about voting Y/N? Drink this koolaid and tell me how ya feel. Remember when the legislature created legislation for IT Insourcing jobs with 5 year terms? First we were told that those jobs would expire after 5 years. Then come to find out (after the fact) people put into these jobs off the street (and yes, almost every single one in my agency was a former contractor) were allowed to pass a test (not reachable, just pass) and keep their jobs permanently! Talk about screwing the employees who worked their way up like everyone else!

    To make matters worse, my agency (DTF) is showing 4 ITS 4′s but no ITS 4 SE’s on the list above. The Insourcing legislation said that if there were workforce reductions in the same title the SE’s would be the first to go. Why aren’t they on the list, or any list for that matter?

    This finalizes my NO vote. You simply can’t trust this administration. They do what they want, give money out to Nanotech and others like it’s just fallen out of their pockets, and simply have no idea how to run State government. Just because your dad was in government doesn’t make you qualified but it does seem to somehow dupe the public into thinking you are.

  23. The Language Police says:

    Casey… I think you meant to say “ppl, ppl who need ppl, are the luckiest ppl in the world.”

    This is a serious topic, yet a little humor can go a long way to keeping things in focus.

  24. NikkieFinn says:

    @ Frequent Visitor John – Would you please show me in any contract where we’ve ever had a 100% layoff guarantee? I’ve been working for the state for 20 years and have never seen any governor ever give us total layoff protection. So why would they do this now? Even CSEA’s contract does not give 100% layoff protection. It may say 2 years of no layoffs but it also says that in the event of fiscal crisis – all bets are off.

  25. la says:

    @soon to be EX PEF, EX Stateworker

    SOUNDS LIKE MY OFFICE. They have selective people they pressure meanwhile, turning a blind eye to the habitual texters, missing in action and non workers!!!

  26. pre1981reagan says:

    I see nothing in Cuomos plans that indicate getting rid of 20% of employees. I only see 20% of agencies and authorities by consolidation. Please read for yourself in the following links. That is a big difference. Again, the SAGE Commission cannot unilaterally implement its recommendations without approval by the legislature which of course will not happen if it contains layoffs. Attrition is another story. It also appears as if Cuomo wants to to hire younger workers to replace the retirees!

    “reduce the number of agencies, authorities, commissions and
    the like by 20 percent in the interest of saving
    taxpayers’ money, increasing accountability, and
    improving the delivery of government services.”

  27. pre1981reagan says:

    anyman, it happens when people are lazy and don’t read their material. Trust me, I know many of them that listened to propaganda instead of reading the contract themselves and making their own informed decision. I am sorry but I cannot name names for obvious reasons and I wish I could to prove it to you and the rest. Is it not obvious how lazy and uniformed our society is today? Stateworkers are no different. I know I make my own decisions and I know others but there are some out there that are clueless and mindless. They are not bad people but just apathetic. You have to agree with this. Just look around you or watch the news.

  28. Tools of the State says:

    @ Casey Seiler
    It’s not about abbreviating people ppl? It’s because I couldn’t find a good abbreviation for commentors that didn’t look like communists. These are people I work with. cmts, cmnts.
    Commiementors – hmmm? Nah.

    @ Frequent Visitor John
    Its only about the headline. Its misleading isn’t it?
    Misrepresents the following story regardless of the clarification most people don’t get past the headline. Effective, how words can suggest something that isn’t true.
    ^ to the

  29. seen it all says:

    @ seen it all

    What I don’t understand is why when the Dark prince shoots another hostage in the form of the additional 300, you blame the E-Board. This sounds like classic Stockholm Syndrome to me.

    The fact is: the E-Board approved sending the original offer, despite the dilge that it was, by a 2-1 margin. This is a fact.

  30. seen it all correction says:

    last post meant for pre1981reagan

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