

IRC Meetups/2005/September/September28RawLog

[17:04] <photomatt> let's get started
[17:04] <photomatt> <meetup>
[17:04] <mumbles> (io_error) shall we meet? -- i can make next thersday
[17:04] <photomatt> I'm sorry for missing last week, I was at Podz's favorite place in the world
[17:04] <geeksmakemehot> Google?
[17:04] <photomatt> (google)
[17:04] <Podz> lol
[17:04] <photomatt> for the web spam summit
[17:04] <mumbles> the pub ?
[17:05] <io_error> photomatt: the secret one?
[17:05] * Joins: skeltoac
[17:05] <photomatt> was it secret? I guess
[17:05] * Joins: mdawaffe
[17:05] <photomatt> it was good, we solved that whole annoying spam thing ;)
[17:05] <relle> Ah, world domination at work.
[17:05] <Usayd> Really, great
[17:06] <relle> So you decided on bamboo sticks under the fingernails or throwing them in pits of snakes and spiders?
[17:06] <photomatt> actually we didn't, but if anyone is having spam problems I am testing out a new plugin that kills spam dead
[17:06] <photomatt> mostly
[17:06] <Usayd> well Spam Karma 2 is working 100% for me
[17:06] <relle> no spiders or snakes?
[17:06] <relle> darn.
[17:06] <io_error> photomatt: I'm having spam problems
[17:07] <Usayd> are we going to discuss anything about 1.6?
[17:07] <Usayd> i'm very interested in seeing how thats getting along
[17:07] <photomatt> if you want to try out the plugin send me a mail to m@mullenweg.com and I'll add you to the mailing list
[17:07] <photomatt> Usayd: you can add things to the agenda on the wiki
[17:07] <Usayd> oh theres an agenda, better check :)
[17:08] <photomatt> right now we're about to get started with our first agenda item, "forum status"
[17:08] <swoolley-work> photomatt: I'll audit it for you
[17:08] <photomatt> http://codex.wordpress.org/IRC_Meetups
[17:08] <Usayd> ok i'm up to date on that now :)
[17:09] <photomatt> so what's the story behind forum status, it's a little vague
[17:09] <relle> mdawaffe - any new treats and tricks to report on the forum?
[17:10] <mdawaffe> nope - if there were I'd have put something on the agenda
[17:10] <photomatt> and welcome back mdawaffe, you were missed
[17:10] <mdawaffe> :)
[17:10] <photomatt> I see there was discussion last week about the need for forums on .com
[17:10] * Joins: nosebleed
[17:10] <photomatt> I agree, there will be forums on .com
[17:11] <photomatt> any other comments on that topic?
[17:11] <Usayd> Is that the only issue?
[17:12] <swoolley-work> I disagree, forums are almost always useless, mailing lists are better since they have a well-defined information architecture and are well-standardized.
[17:12] <mdawaffe> (.com's on digg)
[17:12] <mdawaffe> (http://digg.com/software/Could_the_New_WordPress.com_Kill_Off_Blogger_)
[17:12] <photomatt> wow
[17:12] <photomatt> cool :)
[17:12] <Usayd> swoolley- most people who want to ask questions use forums
[17:12] <Usayd> or IRC
[17:13] <Usayd> but the forums are generally the source for that
[17:13] <swoolley-work> Usayd: correct, people who want to find information use mailing list searches.
[17:13] <swoolley-work> Usayd: people who would instead like to ask questions for questions sake use forums
[17:13] <swoolley-work> Usayd: that's most of the problem
[17:13] <Usayd> I agree, so to solve this issue you would do...?
[17:13] <swoolley-work> eliminate forums
[17:13] <swoolley-work> force people to use mailing lists
[17:14] <photomatt> that's not really on the table
[17:14] <photomatt> sorry!
[17:14] <lafrance> outch
[17:14] <Usayd> yeah too extreme for the minute :)
[17:14] <mumbles> could you just make shore all the content on the mailing lists is added to the forums?
[17:14] <lafrance> swoolley-work: you forget many are not as good as you are and some of us have brain problem forum is our main source to find answer
[17:15] <westi> forums seem more ideal to me... can integrate the same users so that identity between .com blog and .com forum is maintained
[17:15] <photomatt> and our forum tools are waaaaay better than our mailing list tools
[17:15] <Usayd> i agree with lafrance there, you have to assume the user is relatively ignorant of such issues
[17:15] <relle> I assume that the .com forum will be for wordpress.com useres or will it be open to the public?
[17:15] <photomatt> relle: it'll be for .com users
[17:15] <skeltoac> I like that a lot :)
[17:16] <Usayd> ok that issues solved?
[17:16] <photomatt> I apologize to any forum helpers that have gotten .com questions, it was never the intention to send people to .org for support
[17:16] * Quits: tanuki (Remote closed the connection�)
[17:16] <photomatt> I think we can close that
[17:17] <photomatt> next up
[17:17] <photomatt> new look!
[17:17] <mdawaffe> photomatt: I'll see about making wp+bb more robust. I assume mu+bb would follow easily
[17:17] <photomatt> mdawaffe: indeed it would
[17:17] <photomatt> okay, here's a peek at the new look, mostly hot off the presses
[17:17] <photomatt> http://projects.iammattthomas.com/wordpress/050925/
[17:18] <photomatt> check it out, share your comments
[17:18] <Usayd> I like it
[17:18] <photomatt> this incorporates some feedback from last time, also a few other tweaks
[17:18] <rboren> Ship it.
[17:18] <photomatt> the one caveat is this doesn't integrate the codex under docs yet, that's coming in the next rev
[17:18] <photomatt> haha rboren
[17:18] <relle> What's with the funky double line under the links in the header...oh, I see.
[17:19] <Usayd> I don't like the Download Links
[17:19] <relle> I love everything except that.
[17:19] <westi> forums looks nice
[17:19] <mdawaffe> "Wordpress" in Our Name
[17:19] <relle> Tags are STILL above the first post. ARRGG. Sidebar please. please!!
[17:19] <mdawaffe> "WorePress"!
[17:20] <relle> the colors, the background, it all is lovely though. Every loverly.
[17:20] <Usayd> if you shove them in the sidebar there wouldn't be enough space for all of them
[17:20] <mdawaffe> or WordPress
[17:20] <photomatt> these are obviously just mockups, the text isn't real
[17:20] * Joins: tanuki
[17:21] <Usayd> ok thats nice and how long before that might become active?
[17:21] <photomatt> anyway I think this is final or very very close to it
[17:21] <photomatt> well now that the look is down, I still have to code the damn thing
[17:21] <photomatt> :)
[17:21] <relle> It's really professional, clean, and classy looking. I love that you kept the "print/newsletter/press" style. All the way through. Good deal for insisting on that from the beginning.
[17:21] <Usayd> okay thats good
[17:22] <westi> with the menu bar across the top.. it seems odd to me that the only shortened word is "Docs" can we not have Documentation?
[17:22] <photomatt> well I didn't want YET ANOTHER rounded corners with shadows high-tech look website
[17:22] * relle hugs photomatt.
[17:22] <relle> thank YOU. ;-)
[17:22] <photomatt> westi: I think we have the technology to do that, yes
[17:23] <westi> photomatt: :)
[17:23] <photomatt> okay now for the exciting part of the meetup
[17:23] <westi> and where do we buy the t-shirts ;)
[17:23] <Usayd> haha ;)
[17:23] * Joins: ringmaster
[17:23] <photomatt> copyrights of the codex *dum dum dummmmmmm*
[17:23] <stevecooley> lol
[17:23] <Usayd> to do with the book?
[17:24] <mumbles> westi - yeh - T-shirts would be cool
[17:24] <photomatt> well let's lay out all of the issues first, then deal with them in order
[17:24] <photomatt> first there is the title, copyright of the codex
[17:24] <photomatt> second I would say is the license
[17:24] <photomatt> and third is the status of any books based on codex content
[17:24] <photomatt> any other issues we want to cover here?
[17:25] <Usayd> Well what if someone just contributes to the codex, what does that fall under
[17:25] <mdawaffe> 1&2
[17:26] <mdawaffe> (I'd say)
[17:26] <photomatt> okay, first with the copyrights
[17:26] <Usayd> okay so wordpress just owns the copyrights of whatever anyone contributes to the codex?
[17:26] <photomatt> the way copyright works, people keep the copyright of whatever they contribute
[17:26] <photomatt> in the US it's automatic, it's hard NOT to copyright something
[17:27] <photomatt> however by submitting the content, you are agreeing to an implied license
[17:27] <Usayd> okay so thats not really an issue then?
[17:27] <photomatt> for example if you leave a comment on a weblog, you are giving them an implied license to show that comment
[17:28] <photomatt> etc
[17:28] <photomatt> at times, we have also had an explicit license on the codex, the GPL
[17:28] <photomatt> any questions, comments, concerns?
[17:28] <ringmaster> So contributing implies that the contribution be licensed to be shown, but does it imply that the license is the GPL?
[17:28] <mumbles> which as far as i know means that if you publish stuff under GPL anyone can use it
[17:29] <mumbles> in anyway shape or form .
[17:29] <lafrance> photomatt: What about other group that sale your wordpress for profit ?
[17:29] <relle> there are two different issues. Copyright and License.
[17:29] <photomatt> ringmaster: contributing implies a very broad license for the website to do what it wants with the content
[17:30] <Usayd> so what is it we're trying to focus on?
[17:30] <ringmaster> photomatt: Does that broad license include reuse/redistribution/repurposing as the GPL requires?
[17:30] <Usayd> the actual 'Name' of the codex?
[17:31] <photomatt> all of this is theoretical, it doesn't actually matter unless you go to court
[17:31] <photomatt> in which case it probably still doesn't matter, it just matters who has better lawyers
[17:31] <ringmaster> So do we have good lawyers?
[17:31] <Usayd> we have lawyers?
[17:32] <rboren> With laser beams on their heads.
[17:32] <photomatt> and really sharp teeth
[17:32] <geeksmakemehot> "laser beams"
[17:32] <ringmaster> Wow, where do I get one of those?!
[17:32] <geeksmakemehot> walmart
[17:32] <ringmaster> Obviously.
[17:33] <photomatt> you have to sacrifice a virgin and do 3 days of incantations, I wouldn't recommend it for the general public
[17:33] <Usayd> how about asda?
[17:33] <mumbles> or the co-op if your in england
[17:33] <Usayd> asda = wal mart
[17:33] <photomatt> but these are the things I'm willing to do for the wp community
[17:33] <Usayd> so back to the topic
[17:33] <geeksmakemehot> you are too kind photomatt
[17:33] <ringmaster> Ok, so what we are meant to infer from this is that we can expect protection of our copyright should anoyone choose to infringe upon it?
[17:33] <photomatt> well there have been some concerns about how the codex content may or may not be used
[17:34] <photomatt> ringmaster: yes, as was said on the docs list
[17:34] <ringmaster> And I would happily contribute monetarily to such an effort, would it be required.
[17:34] <Usayd> photomatt; can you be a little more specific
[17:34] <photomatt> well let's set up a completely fictitious example
[17:34] <mumbles> what about if someone publesh a book on wp - and has acnolegments to codex controbuters?
[17:34] <mumbles> andmoney goes to WP?
[17:35] <photomatt> and say microsoft took everything on the codex
[17:35] <Usayd> ouch
[17:35] <Usayd> M$ = ASP.NET !
[17:35] <photomatt> and sold it as "Microsoft Blogging Handbook 101"
[17:35] <photomatt> what would happen then? the floor is open for guesses
[17:35] <skeltoac> They have the biggest sharks in the world, btw.
[17:35] <photomatt> should we go after them? should we sue?
[17:35] <Usayd> i see where your coming from
[17:35] <geeksmakemehot> laser beams?
[17:36] <ringmaster> First off, they would have to do it while breaking the license to even consider suing.
[17:36] <photomatt> ringmaster is on the right track
[17:36] <ringmaster> If they also provided all of their changes and formatting, etc. to the community, we'd have no grounds.
[17:36] <photomatt> correct
[17:37] <mumbles> cant we setup a license that basically says - by submitting stuff to the codex you aggree that if WP decides to pubish it you won't complain ?
[17:37] <ringmaster> HOWEVER...
[17:37] <ringmaster> If they didn't do so, it would be the biggest case ever. Whether we could afford to see it through trial is a good question, but it would be awful for them.
[17:38] <rboren> Microsoft has been in GPL trouble before.
[17:38] <photomatt> well let's look at things practically
[17:38] <photomatt> MS has more money than anyone
[17:38] <rboren> And they wouldn't jeopardize on a GPL case.
[17:38] <photomatt> but we probably wouldn't be paying any legal fees, because there would be a herd of lawyers itching to get a piece of MS
[17:39] * Quits: geeksmakemehot (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)�)
[17:39] <photomatt> and as ryan has pointed out about the GPL, it has *never* gone to court
[17:39] <photomatt> or something like that
[17:39] <Usayd> okay basically this issue needs to be addressed with a proper license?
[17:39] <ringmaster> MS is an extreme example, though. If one of us published a book and didn't comply with the license, what do we do?
[17:39] <photomatt> Usayd: it only needs to be "addressed" if you think there's anything wrong with that
[17:39] <photomatt> the EXACT same thing could be done with wordpress itself
[17:39] <Usayd> well we don't want to loose what we have do we
[17:39] <photomatt> MS non-suck Blogging Tool, MicroPress
[17:40] * Joins: geeksmakemehot
[17:40] <io_error> I must bow out early. Real Life is calling. And it's pretty insistent.
[17:40] <mdawaffe> we don't lose anything
[17:41] <rboren> Right. It isn't zero sum.
[17:41] <photomatt> bye io_error
[17:41] * Quits: io_error ("They're coming to take me away!"�)
[17:41] <Usayd> well apart from users?
[17:41] <mumbles> they lose the support
[17:41] <rboren> People take WP all the time. No big deal.
[17:41] <relle> I think the point of all this is - we need a solid copyright text and license policy on the Codex - preferably written up by lawyers who know what they are doing, not us second guessing or making assumptions. It needs to be put on the Codex with links on every page, including the edit page, so all know. This conversation has been going on for months and we need experienced and qualified folks writing up something. Is that g
[17:41] <relle> oing to happen?
[17:42] <Usayd> great point relle (claps)
[17:42] <mdawaffe> no one loses support
[17:42] <rboren> http://codex.wordpress.org/GPL
[17:42] <rboren> That link should be more prominent.
[17:42] <rboren> That's all we need.
[17:43] <mdawaffe> codex would still exist
[17:43] <ringmaster> rboren: That page says nothing about the license of the Codex.
[17:43] <mumbles> i ment free support ,
[17:43] <rboren> Easily fixed.
[17:43] <relle> Ryan, you know I love you, but this topic keeps coming up and so it makes me think it isn't enough. Matt, has this been reviewed by a qualified expert lawyer and do we have his or her written statement that this is enough?
[17:43] <ringmaster> True.
[17:43] <photomatt> there is a link in the footer to the GPL
[17:43] * westi hears Real Life calling too...
[17:43] <westi> night all
[17:43] <relle> night!!!
[17:44] <mdawaffe> and codex would still be free
[17:44] * westi is now known as westi|gone
[17:44] <photomatt> well there are two parts here
[17:44] <photomatt> is what we have enough to be legally sound? totally
[17:44] <photomatt> WP is 100% covered
[17:44] <photomatt> the second issue is of contributor education, that's separate though
[17:44] <relle> Then why does this topic keep coming up?
[17:44] <rboren> FUD
[17:44] <Podz> relle - are you writing / compiling or otherwise creating a book on WP that uses any part of Codex ? I asked this before. There has been no public answer.
[17:45] <relle> We need to have this clear and very specific.
[17:45] <relle> Podz: I'll answer that later. I want to finish this.
[17:45] <Podz> define 'later' ?
[17:45] <photomatt> time out
[17:46] <photomatt> relle: I think the issue keeps coming up because of contributor confusion
[17:46] <photomatt> the suggestions already made sound like they could address that
[17:47] <photomatt> is that satisfactory?
[17:47] <relle> Then we need someone who is an expert on the topic to write up expert information on this and then we'll let everyone know via the mailing lists and all.
[17:47] <relle> Who would that be?
[17:47] <mdawaffe> http://codex.wordpress.org/index.php?title=GPL&diff=0&oldid=23449
[17:47] <ringmaster> mdawaffe: Better.
[17:47] <rboren> The GPL is the most scrutinized license in the world.
[17:47] <stevecooley> maybe you can sponsor that expert opinion
[17:48] <rboren> Google it.
[17:48] <rboren> There is not shortage of expert information on the GPL.
[17:48] <relle> I just want this topic settled and everyone can point and say "this is the answer".
[17:48] <photomatt> relle: I'm not sure what "expert information" you think is needed, I've raised the issues to an "expert" and I'm communicating what I heard back
[17:48] <rboren> Read the license, consult a lawyer.
[17:49] <photomatt> I don't want to impose too much on someone who normally charges well over 400/hr
[17:49] <mdawaffe> http://codex.wordpress.org/Template:Welcome which everyone gets is pretty explicit
[17:49] <relle> There are many pro bono lawyers that specialize in this who would probably enjoy taking this on.
[17:49] <stevecooley> relle: maybe you should locate one
[17:49] <relle> And from my understand, GPL covers software and not necessarily documentation, which is where the confusion may lie.
[17:50] <rboren> It is better suited to software but applies to any copyrighted bits.
[17:50] <photomatt> the important part of the GPL covers any type of content well
[17:50] <photomatt> the part that says if you re-distribute your changes must be under the same license
[17:51] <ringmaster> If possible, I think the best and smallest change we can make right now is to alter the last sentence that appears on the edit page.
[17:51] <photomatt> the "source" part doesn't really matter with text
[17:51] <ringmaster> Currently, it says: "You are also promising us that you wrote this yourself, or copied it from a public domain or similar free resource (see Project:Copyrights for details). DO NOT SUBMIT COPYRIGHTED WORK WITHOUT PERMISSION!"
[17:52] <ringmaster> If we added a note directly about the GPL there, it would be hard for a contributor to question his agreement to that license.
[17:53] <rboren> Yep. "Similar free resource" is problematic. Axe that for sure.
[17:53] <mumbles> i thought you couldent change anyparts of the gpl
[17:53] <rboren> Just kill the line and refer back to the license, as you suggest.
[17:54] <mdawaffe> fire at will: http://codex.wordpress.org/MediaWiki:Copyrightwarning
[17:54] <photomatt> as rboren has pointed out several times before, we aren't treading any new ground here, this has all been done back when I was learning to walk
[17:55] <relle> Why don't you use the GPL for manuals?
[17:55] <relle> It is possible to use the GPL for a manual, but the GNU Free Documentation License (GFDL) is much better for manuals. http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#TOCWhyNotGPLForManuals
[17:55] <mdawaffe> wait - that's the wrong one
[17:55] <rboren> Yes, we know.
[17:56] <mdawaffe> http://codex.wordpress.org/MediaWiki:Copyrightwarning2
[17:57] <rboren> Can we just say, "See the GPL"
[17:57] <photomatt> relle: changing the license really wouldn't make anything better
[17:57] <rboren> Don't try to interpret it.
[17:57] <relle> http://www.gnu.org/licenses/fdl.html is the GNU Free Documentation License. Maybe the Codex should have that one.
[17:57] <rboren> We would have to relicense all the existing stuff.
[17:57] <photomatt> our license does everything we want, the grass isn't necessarily greener over there
[17:57] <ringmaster> The Codex is already GPL-licensed. We're not using GFDL because then documentation created for Codex can't be distributed in WordPress itself, which has requirements for less restrictive modification. That is what I gleaned from photomatt's posts to wp-docs.
[17:58] <stevecooley> What's the motivation for this intense scrutiny over the license?
[17:58] <rboren> GPL has been used for docs since Matt was learning to walk. :-)
[17:58] <mumbles> uh oh .. the lights keep on flickering here
[17:58] <relle> Podz: want to jump in here?
[17:58] <Podz> I repeat my question.
[17:59] <Podz> all I'm after is an answer
[17:59] <rboren> Why does it matter?
[17:59] <Podz> ?
[17:59] <Podz> Why does it matter to answer ?
[17:59] <relle> Podz - you have been fighting to get better protection for the Codex and its volunteers. Would you like to explain why it is important?
[17:59] <swoolley-work> ringmaster is wrong, GPL and GFDL stuff can be distributed together. Check the GPL's mere aggregation clause.
[18:00] <ringmaster> Hey, I'm just paraphrasing.  :)
[18:00] <photomatt> it doesn't matter, the codex is GPL and can stay GPL forever
[18:00] <Podz> relle - I have no idea what you are trying to do apart from avoid answering a basic question. Please answer it.
[18:00] <photomatt> okay time out again
[18:00] <swoolley-work> GPL codex is good enough for me
[18:01] <photomatt> there is obviously some tension between Podz and relle
[18:01] <relle> Not that I know of.
[18:01] <relle> News to me.
[18:01] <stevecooley> it's pretty obvious
[18:01] <relle> Okay, back to the issue at hand.
[18:01] <rboren> I think the issue is dead and buried.
[18:01] <photomatt> Podz: on the docs list you made a strong statement, could you repeat it, explain it, and give relle a chance to respond?
[18:02] <relle> Can the issue of copyright protection and license on the Codex be settled by next week? Or is totally dead and the GPL stands and no more discussion about it?
[18:02] <photomatt> relle: it's dead
[18:02] <photomatt> GPL stands
[18:02] <relle> Okay.
[18:02] <skeltoac> Aye.
[18:03] * Quits: tanuki (Connection reset by peer�)
[18:03] <rboren> So, World Tour?
[18:03] <rboren> Whazzat?
[18:04] <Podz> relle - are you writing / compiling or otherwise creating a book on WP that uses any part of Codex ?
[18:04] <relle> no
[18:04] <Podz> Thank You. that is all.
[18:04] <photomatt> okay that wasn't so hard
[18:04] <ringmaster> I don't care whether anyone uses Codex to create a book. Just be sure that when you do, that upon request you redistribute in digital form any changes you made to the source - including textual and formatting - as required by the GPL.
[18:04] * relle is totally clueless about what is going on.
[18:05] <Podz> relle - don't make me show more information. You've said No.
[18:05] <photomatt> Podz: it'd probably be best to get all the information you have out in the open so it can be cleared up
[18:05] <photomatt> info can be misinterpreted and misunderstood, it can also be out of date
[18:06] <Podz> Okay...
[18:06] <Podz> just so people can see where I have come from, and why i appear t be at this so hard, here is quite a bit of the info that vcame my way. It is not all
[18:07] <Podz> http://www.tamba2.org.uk/book.txt
[18:07] <relle> Amazing how things get twisted.
[18:08] <photomatt> I don't think it's twisted as much as misunderstood
[18:08] <relle> And heresay.
[18:08] <relle> 1. Talk about a book has been going on since day one.
[18:09] <relle> 2. No book yet or any final decisions about anything.
[18:09] <relle> 3. There are other writers out there saying they are going to write a book.
[18:09] <relle> I know no more than that.
[18:09] <relle> Just talk.
[18:10] <relle> Why this is even an issue is beyond me.
[18:10] <photomatt> to get all the book info out as possible, I usually get contacted by publishers when there is a WP book coming out
[18:10] <photomatt> there is one mike little worked on, I forget the name
[18:10] <photomatt> building community
[18:10] <mdawaffe> ringmaster, rboren http://codex.wordpress.org/MediaWiki:Copyrightwarning2
[18:10] <photomatt> there is also one on design, which binarybonsai had a chapter in
[18:11] <ringmaster> mdawaffe: Good.
[18:11] <photomatt> other than that I don't recall anything else being underway, when I've been asked to work on one I've responded I don't have the bandwidth
[18:11] <photomatt> Podz: does that clear the air for you?
[18:12] <Podz> it does thank you. All I ever asked for was the answer. Issue no longer exists.
[18:12] <mdawaffe> relle: do you know how to make that message actually work?
[18:12] <relle> looking.
[18:12] <relle> how do you want it to work?
[18:13] <relle> In the edit screen?
[18:13] <mdawaffe> yeah
[18:13] <relle> photomatt will have to do that. I don't have those rights.
[18:14] * Joins: jalenack
[18:14] <jalenack> .
[18:15] <photomatt> okay, well email me what needs to be done and I'll make the code changes
[18:16] <relle> mdawaffe: can you get that info to him?
[18:16] <mdawaffe> yeah
[18:16] <relle> tanks.
[18:17] <photomatt> is that all done?
[18:17] <photomatt> any other codex license issues for this meetup?
[18:18] <skeltoac> *gavel*
[18:18] <photomatt> okay, world tour!
[18:18] <Usayd> yey
[18:19] <photomatt> I'm going to Paris for Les Blogs
[18:19] <geeksmakemehot> can i go?
[18:19] <photomatt> (even though it's run by 6A and WP won't be represented on any panels)
[18:19] <ringmaster> When is that?
[18:19] <Podz> b2 meets wp ?
[18:19] <photomatt> early december
[18:19] <skeltoac> Les Miserablogs, shoulda been
[18:19] <photomatt> the flight from SF to europe is pretty brutal
[18:19] <mumbles> i might quit out
[18:19] <Podz> swim ?
[18:20] <photomatt> so while I'm over there I'd like to visit other places where there are WP users :)
[18:20] <Podz> drag yourself to London and we can get a meetup going there
[18:20] <relle> photomatt: the secret is benadryl. Sleep your way across - wake fresh and ready to go.
[18:20] * Quits: relle ("Wave your little hand and whisper so long dearie, should have said so long, so long ago."�)
[18:21] <photomatt> london sounds like a definite
[18:21] <photomatt> any other places I should plan for?
[18:21] <Usayd> London, great
[18:21] <lafrance> that in December right photomatt ?
[18:21] <photomatt> I'm planning to fill up half of my bag with WP swag :)
[18:22] <photomatt> lafrance: yep
[18:22] <Usayd> haha
[18:22] <lafrance> ok will send you some money for your trip please email me to remind me
[18:22] <Podz> photomatt, you get the dates and Khaled should be up for it too
[18:22] <geeksmakemehot> The other half of photomatt's bag is going to me me
[18:23] * Joins: mumbles-other
[18:24] <mumbles-other> damm dident fix my isshue, did i miss anything important ?
[18:25] <photomatt> alright, I'll plan mainly for london
[18:25] <photomatt> I'm also probably going to hit ireland to see donncha
[18:25] <Usayd> photomatt, when you say a visit you mean alone or a group or..?
[18:25] * Quits: ringmaster ("Find me at http://asymptomatic.net"�)
[18:25] <photomatt> just me
[18:25] <mumbles-other> if its in london - ill show up.
[18:26] <Usayd> london is too far for me, manchester :(
[18:26] <geeksmakemehot> Why can't I live someplace cool. PhotoMatt, you gotta hit Arkansas one day buddy
[18:26] <mumbles-other> how about the magabus Usayd ?
[18:27] <stevecooley> photomatt, you gotta hit up san jose someday ;)
[18:27] <jalenack> heh
[18:27] <Usayd> photomatt where will the info be for the trip
[18:27] <geeksmakemehot> I can show you some cotton and some cows and more cotton
[18:27] <photomatt> san jose is far too far :)
[18:27] <stevecooley> lol
[18:27] <stevecooley> why can't I live someplace cool??
[18:27] <geeksmakemehot> Oh! We can go muddin!
[18:28] <photomatt> I'll keep you guys up-to-date, I was being a little facetious when I called it a WP world tour
[18:28] <photomatt> stevecooley: I have to drive down to the peninsula for dinner today, not looking forward to it!
[18:28] <Usayd> lol
[18:29] <mumbles-other> photomatt where do you come from ?
[18:29] <geeksmakemehot> Mars
[18:30] <stevecooley> photomatt: well, maybe when i get my south bay PHP/MySQL users group together, we can bribe you to come down to cupertino
[18:30] <photomatt> mumbles: san francisco
[18:30] <photomatt> stevecooley: totally
[18:31] <Usayd> oh thers a php london user group..i think
[18:31] <photomatt> okay, I think we can safely end the meetup now
[18:31] <photomatt> </meetup>

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