

  (Source: Smart Power)
Study says skeptics are not well-informed on the topic













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RE: Regardless...
By SRHelicity on 6/28/2010 12:35:27 PM , Rating: 3
We DO know that this is not "just the cyclical changes that planet experiences". The Milenkovitch forcing is not enough to explain the observed climate change effects (not just increased mean global surface temp, but also changes in Arctic ice coverage, sea level, etc.), as several studies have shown. This is a very complicated system, and there is evidence that "supports" both sides, but, if you are weighing the evidence on either side, it is very, very uneven (tipped heavily in the direction of "there is a significant anthropogenic contribution to the observed climate change"). Sure, many folks could be wrong, but it's looking likely that humans are having at least some impact on the climate.

RE: Regardless...
By gamerk2 on 6/28/2010 3:06:53 PM , Rating: 1
The problem is weather systems in particular do NOT play nice with Climate models. All weather systems are Chaotic; a .01% change in a starting condition can lead to significant changes in the result. As such, unless a global model is made 100% accurate for all possible situations [which is impossible unless you can control every single tree, building, etc, as they affect wind patterns], you can't come up with a perfect model.

We can come up with good ones based on our understanding of the situation. And they all say the exact same thing: the current warming trend is well outside of the normal varience you would expect over a century, and happens to be corrolated with global CO2 output. Farthermore, studies of Venus have basically proved CO2 and SO2 [and other combinations] in the atmosphere can trap heat. The logical conclusion is that if enough CO2 were dumped in our atmosphere, the same result would eventually occur.

So the GW argument comes down to the following questions:
1: Can CO2 in the atmosphere trap heat if added in large enough concentrations?
2: At what level would CO2 in the atmosphere have a detectable effect on the earths climate?

Very few people would argue against one, as even in small scale projects [greenhouses], it is known that CO2 traps heat. Which brings us to the second question: At what level does CO2 have an effect?

RE: Regardless...
By TSS on 6/28/2010 3:18:59 PM , Rating: 1
Well ofcourse humans have affected the climate. Just how many asphalt roads are there that retain heat pretty well heating up the surrounding enviroment more then it would've been if it was just grassy fields or forests?

We can even affect the planet on a global scale, and fix it on a global scale. Banned CFC's anybody?

The point of the whole debate in this case however, is that on the topic of global warming, not everybody belives humans are the cause of that. Maybe even not that their not willing to belive humans are the cause, they just don't belive it in the way the enviromentalists explain it currently. If we are the cause but CO2 isn't it, the various cap and trade schemes across the world will cost a giant load of money AND we'll have a overheating planet.

In light of that view, it's better to agree where the cause and do nothing about it, because then we can atleast use the money to build shelters. Instead of us all roasting while Al gore is laughing maniacly in his private space station.

RE: Regardless...
By SPOOFE on 6/28/2010 5:32:34 PM , Rating: 3

No, we DON'T know that, and we have indications that it is cyclical. Look at a history of our climate record going back 10,000+ years, and the past thousand doesn't look too spectacular.


But the burden of proof is only on ONE side, the side that is claiming "something is happening". To date, that side has yet to fully account for even major factors that would inherently affect their hypothesis (ask a Global Warming Researcher how water vapor is incorporated into their models, and if they're honest they'll straight up tell you that it's not, at all).

RE: Regardless...
By DominionSeraph on 6/28/2010 7:34:08 PM , Rating: 2

Sorry, it is not valid to assume that a positive action has no consequences. This is not the same as in the absence of a cause assuming the absence of an effect.

Keep your positives and negatives straight.

