Apr 8 2013 9:15am

Game of Thrones Dark Wings Dark Words




Game of Thrones Dark Wings Dark Words





Game of Thrones Dark Wings Dark Words


Other impressions and nominees for Quote of the Episode:

  • “It’s a shame the throne wasn’t made out of cocks. They’d have never gotten [Renly] off of it.” - Jaime, crude but effective.
  • “No flowers! I’m the king!” - Joffrey
  • “Give it to Margaery for her wedding gown. It should be more than enough fabric.” - Cersei, who’s even better at burns than her twin.
  • “This is cruel and unfair. Cruelly unfair.” - Tyrion

Next week: Less walking and more forward momentum.



1. InternetH3ro
Re: Catelyn - You actually can trace most of the bad things that have happened to the Starks to Catelyn. Not because she feels she should've loved Jon more, but because that's just how she is. Impetuous out of a sense of revenge.
Chris Nelly
2. Aeryl
That guy that wants to "free" Theon is a complete fake.

And I disagree with you that Margaery isn't thinking about what Joff said about outlawing sodomy, you saw it in her face, she was thinking about Loras.

I think that part about Cat is the writers playing into the hate the ShowCat gets(not that BookCat doesn't have her detractors, but she's definitely more sympathetic). My coworkers were all like "Good, it is ALL HER FAULT".
3. CrystalV
Plus, Cat was basically saying that she made a deal with the gods and then didn't hold up her end of the bargain, so she feels they cursed her family because of it. I can kind of see how she might think that, being as religious as she is. And it's as good an explanation as any why the Starks keep getting kicked in the teeth no matter what they do.

As for Shae's uncharacteristic jealousy over Sansa, I have a theory on that, but I can't explain without giving up major spoilers from the book. Let's just say I think it's setting up something for later that they had to handle in a different way than the book did, so I get it.

The whole scene with Margaery seducing Joff using his own bloodlust was brilliant. She's a smart cookie, that one.
Chris Nelly
4. Aeryl
@1, See I disagree with you. Sure, taking Tyrion didn't help matters, but the problems with Ned and Cersei would've come to a head without that. Ned still would have found the bastards, Robert still would have died. Without Cat taking Tyrion, Robb would NOT have won his first battle and taken Jaime prisoner, and started the game so far ahead.

I have a neat theory that Cat and Cersei are commentaries on motherhood, because they have both been told all their lives that's their only worth. But this single minded devotion has led them to make bad decisions.
Theresa DeLucci
5. theresa_delucci
I think it's a matter of how far back do you want to go in order to play the blame-game? Cat taking Tyrion didn't help, but really, I think a lot of the conflict was started by Ned's sense of duty to Robert in accepting the position of Hand. Or how about Littlefinger and Lysa Arryn?

I do understand that Cat's pretty religious and can certainly understand why she'd believe her family is cursed by the gods, but this monologue made me like her less. (It's not like she can call G.R.R.M. a rat bastard for the terrible treatment of Starks.) I actually hated BookCat because, while she was strong, she was also something of a self-styled martyr. She reminds me a bit of Marge Simpson, mixed in with the controlling, excessively nervous mothering of Ruth Fisher (Six Feet Under).

@2 I think I missed Margaery's face when Joffrey talked about punishing homosexuality. There was a definite hesitation in her voice, but then it was on to stroking Joffrey's crossbow. (Blech.)

@3 I know where you're going with Shae and I agree. They're bringing up her jealousy all of a sudden because they need to. For book spoiler reasons.
6. Lsana
I was rather annoyed by most of Joff's scenes. Okay, we get it, he's evil. There was no need to make him un-PC as well. However, I did enjoy watching Margaery play him like a fiddle.

Diana Rigg was wonderful as Olenna. Olenna was my favorite character in the books, and Diana Rigg was just about a perfect translation of the cool old lady in my head to the screen.

There were definitely a couple of interesting foreshadowing moments in this episode. For someone who has read the books, they were about as subtle as a brick to the head, but I suspect they probably work well for just the show.
Chris Nelly
7. Aeryl
See, I think they are playing us book readers with Shae's jealousy. They are telegraphing that, making us think that's her motivation for later book things. But I think she's just yanking Tyrion's chain(though if I were Tyrion, I'd be pointing out that Ros took the torture intended for you!!!!)

I think Shae's story is going to be MUCH more tragic than all that.
Scott Silver
9. hihosilver28
Theresa, now I'm confused. You write the post as someone who doesn't have any knowledge of the books, but your comments state that you do know what's coming in the books. Out of curiosity, have you read the books, or are you experiencing the show as a newbie? Because if it's the first, your comment about Sam doesn't make as much sense compared to the latter. Same thing with Theon. Either way, just curious. :)
10. Spiegel
I was confused by the scene where Cat learns about what happened in Winterfell. Didn't they think that Bran and Rickon were already dead by last season? Or was that book-only?
Theresa DeLucci
11. theresa_delucci
@9 I have read the books. I try to keep book spoilers out of the main post as much as I can. In fact, last season I had a spoiler warning about what gets said in the post vs. the comments, where we're not moderating for spoilers. I think I'll reinstate that policy for clarity. Thanks for the reminder!
Chris Nelly
12. Aeryl
@10, In the show, Theon killed all the ravens, so news of what's happened in Winterfell can't get out to the rest of the world. So in the show, all Cat & Robb know is that Winterfell has been taken, and then in this episode they learned it's been destroyed and the boys are missing.

In the books, they learn that Theon killed two children he claims are Bran & Rickon. Which makes Cat's future actions more understandable, because she thinks her youngest are dead.
13. sofrina
i didn't think it was so much about walking as it was about unexpected/ uneasy alliances. jamie needles brienne ceaselessly, but they are united in trying not to be captured by anyone. team bran meet up with the reeds on their trek north. the martells take sansa under their wing. margaery gets a toehold in joffrey's trust - deftly moving from enemy to ally. and the guy who seems to hate sam the most is assigned to keep him alive or die trying. theon's of course is just a set up. we know perfectly well the ironborn have no capacity for subterfuge.

loved how brienne fought jamie like she was training a child. arya didn't even fall into her waterdancer pose.
14. Eyeless621
I may be wrong, but it seems they are starting Theon's storyline much much sooner than the books. I haven't quite finished Dance With Dragons yet, so I'm not sure what becomes of him, but they might run out of source material for the show by starting it this early (unless GRRM releases some more books soon :-) )... that was my main concern after this episode, but I could be way off base.

I like how they are portraying Brienne in the show, and I'm glad the Reeds have shown up. Margaery totally worked over Joffrey, so that was awesome, she's very politically savvy.
Alicia Dodson
15. LynMars
@14 Theon's story is taking place at the right time, we just didn't get to see it in the novels until ADwD in flashback and exposition form. After Allen's amazing performance last season, it'd be rough to go 3-4 years without seeing the character at all, given how much has to happen.

At around this point, stuff from the opening chapters of Storm of Swords take place at the same time as the end of Clash of Kings, and things from Feast for Crows overlap with Storm of Swords, and most of Dance with Dragons overlaps Feast for Crows...

Scenes and storylines are going to get moved up a lot from here out.
Theresa DeLucci
16. theresa_delucci
Unless, of course, they're going to do something completely different with Theon.

@sofrina: Yeah, I'm still not convinced that's not Roose's bastard (but he's way too young.) Greyjoys aren't known for subtlty, being reavers n' all. It's kind of against their motto. Then again, as Olenna said, "Yes, yes. And a Tyrell's farts smell like roses." (God, I love her.)
17. Bean
Maybe I'm missing something really obvious, but why would Jaime spend all that energy trying to escape from Brienne when she's just escorting him - safely, at that - home? Isn't King's Landing where he wants to go? Isn't having a personal guard whose job it is to keep you alive and deliver you home safely (for a hostage trade) better than going it alone as the Kingslayer (weakened by long imprisonment) in dangerous territory? It made zero sense to me - please explain wise forum!
18. phuzz
Obviously not many scenes were identical to the book at this point, but Catelyn's story about Jon Snow having a fever is completely new. I wonder if he ever knew that she'd sat by his bed all night?

Also, why doesn't Ygritte ever get to use her catchphrase? :(
19. sofrina
@17- jaime is still a captive of a stark as long as he's with brienne. he's been held for about a year now. he can make his own way to his father's forces somewhere along the way without going all the way to king's landing. he basically wants to be free. you can't really argue with that.
Bryan Cogswell
20. shmoo
Margaery clearly pauses and the look on her face - yes she is thnking of Loras.

And I loved her belt - the little thorns on it.

@17 - Jaime helps his family/cause if he excapes and makes it to KL on his own. If he does he can be given an army and be back in the field - if he is there under guard they have to be all Knightly about things and pretend to negoatiate and whatnot... and who wants to be a prisoner?
21. Eyeless621
@15 - Ah yes, I forgot about the overlap. I did think that just Feast for Crows and Dance With Dragons took place at the same time though, but that makes sense if they overlap a little with Storm of Swords as well... thanks for the explanation/reminder!!
22. Slybrarian
As far as Joffery's sudden thoughts about outlawing 'perversion' and Loras go, I think Margaery knows exactly what it would mean for her brother. I also think that (a) Joffery and Sansa may be the only people in King's Landing who don't realize what's up with Loras and Renly, (b) Joffery only cares about it because they were talking about Renly, who he hated for trying to take the throne, and (c) the moment Joffery actually tries to execute the man whose army just saved the city (and is presumably still hanging around) and whose food is feeding the kingdom is the day we get to see Tywin join the Joffery-slapping brigade. That, and his life expectancy would drop rapidly to about "ten minutes after Margaery gives birth to an heir" simply by threatening Loras. Indeed, given her expression, it may already have done so.
Alan Brown
23. AlanBrown
I missed the first half of the episode, but have to say the Margaery/Joffrey interaction was very creepy--very well played by the two young actors.
And I love, love, love Jamie and Brienne. The way they bicker is as good as the book, if not even better. The fight on the bridge was wonderfully well staged and well acted.
David Lev
24. davidlev
SPOILERS: If the show follows the plot of the books at all (at least as well as I remember them), Joffrey's little comment about outlawing perversion may very well be yet another reason why the Tyrells do what they're going to do later on in this season
Chris Nelly
25. Aeryl
@17 Bean, Jaime can't help himself. He's like the Joker, he's a dog chasing a car, but he wouldn't know what to do with it if he caught it. Why torment Brienne? Why not, it's what the Kingslayer would do, taunt an odd ungainly woman, especially one with the temerity to think she could be a knight? Gotta nip that shit in the bud, otherwise other people wouldn't have to do whatthis fucked up society expected of them, AND THEN WHERE WOULD WE BE????? In all actuality, Jaime doesn't know what he would do or what he wants to do, because all his life all he's ever done is pretend to be the person everyone else expected him to be, except with Cersei and Tyrion, IMO. Which is why he's tormenting Brienne, because she EXPECTS to be tormented.
26. TheEightChandrian
Is it me or Arya lost Needle? The sword she has in the episode look different, and maybe I'm wrong but I thought she recovered it in season 2... and by book 5 she still owns it.
Sorcha O
28. sushisushi
This episode wasn't just about walking, but also about fencing, both literal and figurative kinds, probing defences and testing your opponent. You have Arya testing if Thoros really will let them go and then being physically disarmed, and Jaime and Brienne doing both verbal and then physical sparring, but a lot of the fencing was verbal - Shae and Tyrion, Olenna/Margaery and Sansa, Margaery and Joffrey, even Mance and Jon to an extent. Everyone is getting themselves into position, figuring out the boundaries, and testing the strength of their opponents and loyalty of their allies (regardless of whether they know they are such).
29. Nessa
Yay! Teatime with the Tyrells! We finally got to see Diana Rigg and she's great in the role as the Queen of Thorna (though I have to say, it's not quite as funny when the little old woman who browbeats everyone around her is not really cast as very "little". Plus, where are Left and Right?)

Sansa telling Loras about the red rose: Ha! He doesn't remember a thing about it, the liar. Sorry, Sansa, he doesn't sway your way. Ditto, Brienne (Did Brienne not know Renly's sexuality even in the books, or is this just a show thing?).

Meera and Jojen: Meera was great, but I feel like I wanted to hit Jojen in the face. Though I do spend a lot of time wanting to hit book!Jojen in the face too, so maybe I'm biased. (Maybe.)

Margaery was great, of course (almost goes without saying). And her rivalry with Cersei is getting deeper, which is even better. I remember in the books, we didn't get to really see Margaery's calculating/manipulative side until she was married to Tommen. I'm glad they're starting early here, showing her capable of even manipulating Joffrey (though I guess that's not really hard to do). Her predended revulsion of Renly ("something that sounded very painful"- Margaery, you suggested that "something" to him, we saw you!) and coy, almost, self-degrading comments ("maybe it was my fault") and the way Joffrey fell for all of it, like a complete idiot. Plus the final scene, where she looks into the mirror and asks him if she can kill when she needs to. Joffrey is right. She can and she will. (I can hardly wait.)

I'm conflicted on the extra scene with Cat's thought's on Jon. On one hand, I like it when the show adds things and gives different sides to a character we don't normally see. On the other hand, it seemed a bit forced that Cat felt so much regret over it. I won't comment further on it though. I know it's a touchy subject.
Chris Nelly
30. Aeryl
@26, A Lannister guard named Polliver took it before they were taken to Harrenhal. She has yet to retrieve it.

@29, Since it's never made explicit in the books, I would say that Brienne did not know. And while she's devoted to Renly, which is based on her attraction to him, I don't think it was something she ever expected to have returned.
Elizabeth Doolin
31. mochabean
Thoros was not quite what I expected. Is show-Thoros conflated with Lem Lemoncloak? I did enjoy the Rains of Castamere reprise.

Not sure yet what I think about Cat and her blair witch mobile...I've never hated her , either in book or show, and it makes sense to me that she would feel enormous guilt for what she sees as a failing of motherhood and honor, since motherhood and honor are such a big part of her identity. And I have always liked the similarities and contrasts between her and Cersei, and the show found another way to make that point -- Cat can't love Jon Snow at all, and Cersei loves Joffery too much.
32. Nessa
@30: Hmm, I guess you're right. I wasn't sure if it was mentioned in the books or not. She didn't spend all that much time with Renly, so I guess it's no surprise that she just didn't put the clues together.
Alan Brown
33. AlanBrown
I am pretty sure Brienne is not the type to pick up on romantic signals, or the lack thereof. I doubt she spent much of her young life talking with the other young girls about dating and smooching and stuff. And that her love of Renly, being of the courtly longing from afar type of love, would not have given her any clues. It is ironic that she hews closer to the principles of chivalry more than any of the men in the book. Which is one of the many things I love about her.
Jamie Watkins
35. Treesinger
What, no "Bear at the Fair" song? I was so looking forward to hearing that clever rhyming that GRRM did to create the song. I thought that it was a great piece of suberfuge in the books to have the jester bellowing out the song to cover up their discussions. I am so dissapointed that they didn't include it in the show.
Chris Nelly
36. Aeryl
One of the episodes is titled "The Bear and the Maiden Fair" so I assume some reference to the song will be made beforehand.
Theresa DeLucci
37. theresa_delucci
I was also a bit disappointed we didn't see the singing jester, too. Loved that scene in the books, but i think it might've been distracting to viewers and the've done a great job setting up the Tyrells as shifty, sneaky people who know what's up.

I hope we hear "The Bear and the Maiden" before the episode. I'm sure Thoros would know those lyrics. They're using "Rains of Castamere" to great effect, too.
Stefan Mitev
38. Bergmaniac
The Catelyn story was an absolute travesty. She prayed for Jon's death because she was jealous of his mother? Seriously? At a time when Ned and Cat were barely more than strangers to each other? They've turned into a complete psychopath.

And she promised the gods to get Jon legitimised? No way in hell any feudal lady with kids of her own would ever do this. Least of all Catelyn - that would be totally against "Family, Duty, Honor" the way she understands those things.
Rob Munnelly
39. RobMRobM
Quick thoughts:
- I can guess what the showrunners are going to do with the Theon plotline and I like it. Bet you a dollar that mop guy introduces himself as Reek next episode.
- Really wish the Reeds had been allowed to do their reaffirmation of oaths to the Starks, as they did in the books in ACOK. I almost jumped out of my chair reading when they swore by "...Ice and Fire." Clear as of that point that attention must be paid to those two.
- I'm also betting the book split off of Bran's crew will happen at end of this season.
- I liked Thoros but wish he had at least some semblance of being from a foreign country.
- Queen of Thorns lunch, anything with Joff, and Jaime-Brienne were pure gold throughout.
- Not sure I like having a Bolton capture them. The upcoming plot developments make more sense if someone less tied to an existing house was the captor. We'll see how it plays.
- I liked the Cat speech. Not consistent with book Cat, but quite consistent with TV show Cat.
Chris Nelly
40. Aeryl
I can understand the concerns over Bolton capturing Jaime, and what's gonna happen. But thinking on it, a key character(rhymes with Meyne) that relates to future alliances, has been cut from the story, so that alliance MAY not happen in the show. If not, then having what's coming be Bolton's fault, may help.

Plus, I'm still not convinced they'll be captured here. It looks grim, but these are the (now)two best swordspeople in the country standing together, prepared to fight together.
Lee Sauer
41. leesauer
Haven't seen anyone yet comment on a major change from the books - Cat's father is already dead at this point. So we're not going to get any of the scenes between them. Understandable, but a ptiy.
Theresa DeLucci
42. theresa_delucci
Jeez, I completely forgot to comment on that. When I was watching, I thought "But what about 'Tansy' and 'the blood!'" I wonder why they did that? Is that too long-reaching a mystery, being they probably won't get to that stuff near the end of season 4? Just a victim of TV time restraints, so they had to move it up? Maybe some house servant will at least mention Tansy to Cat next week.
Rob Munnelly
43. RobMRobM
@41 - another victim of the no flashback/detailed references to what happened during the Rebellion rule. I'm going to be so ticked off if we don't at least get the Knight of the Laughing Tree story (and I expect to be ticked off).
Theresa DeLucci
44. theresa_delucci
I'dt be perfectly okay with a prequel special miniseries (a la Spartacus: Gods of the Arena, which was PERFECT in the context of the show) just to see the Rebellion and all those important past events that have cast such a long shadow over everything currently happening in Westeros.

Now I'm imagining the actor playing Gannicus as Rheagar. That wouldn't suck.
Chris Nelly
45. Aeryl
GANNICUS!! God I hope he survives. I'm convinced Laeta's gonna kill Spartacus though. I don't know if I'm gonna make it through tomorrow night! But yeah, nothing about Dustin Clare sucks(Liam McIntyre is such a good sport about being outshone by him, I've seen behind the scenes footage of him wearing a Dustin Clare shirt)

Back OT, they are probably holding onto all the back story in case they outpace Martin. Then while they wait for the books to catch up, we can do mini seasons of Robert's Rebellion, Dunk & Egg.
Theresa DeLucci
46. theresa_delucci
Naw, Laeta's probably going to be pregnant with Spartacus' baby because it's TV and every sexual encounter must lead to babies as a way of leaving a surviving legacy. But I'm sure the amount of bloodshed in tonight's series finale (sniffles) will make the "Colorful Event" look like a mere puddle.

Game of Thrones really needs to up the naked men quotient because there will be a lack of it after tonight. Alfie Allen does an admirable job. They should just... leave that hood on.

Ahem. OT: This show just doesn't seem to do flshbacks, which is good on one hand, but I really hope all of that unmined Westerosi history can be used one day. I thought I read something by G.R.R.M saying Dunk and Egg might be a lighter, more swashbuckling series, somewhere.
Chris Nelly
47. Aeryl
I don't know, the parallels between her and Spartacus are too close, DeKnight went to the Whedon School of Inflicting Maximum Pain, I don't see anything that "happy" happening.


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