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Syfy (ended 2010)

Why the finale of Battlestar was perfect.

  • Avatar of ballack08


    [1]Mar 22, 2009
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    A positive thread with a positive experience of the finale. Feel free to post yours!

    Brilliant ending in my opinion. I've always been a big fan of the more religious side of the show and i'm glad that they didn't feel the need to pander to the hardcore sci fi fans by subscribing to the sci fi "everything must be explained fully and with hard science and observation" kind of thing.

    I thought that the opera house as a tool to get everything to align for peace under the guidance of god was really well played (although it was interesting that the quest for peace technically failed in some ways, yet was achieved in others). Galin killing Tory was a definite highlight!

    Starbuck as an angel? A lot of people seem to dislike this one, especially the fact that she just dissapears- but I don't think it could have been done any other way. After all she's been through during this voyage, it would have been almost unfufilling for her to simply live the rest of her life on earth (2?) with everyone else, because she had so obviously drifted away from all of that. This is the most nerdy comparison ever, but it reminded me of Lord of the Rings when Frodo succeeds in his mission to destroy the ring, but because of all the things he has gone through, he knows that he will never be able to go back to the way things were, so he sails to the grey havens (heaven). In this case, Starbuck had obviously been prepared by god for this mission throughout her life, and was eventually resserected because her job wasn't finished (Jesus anyone?). Once they had reached their end, she was finally complete, and went off to join anders in a place that she actually belonged (because she was, after all, dead).

    A lot of people disliked the fact that the humans all of a sudden just abandoned technology, seeing it as unrealistic, and perhaps counter productive in terms of making sure that we would never go through the cycle of violence again. While this is true, staying together as one group and building an advanced civilization over a few generations that would be more self aware in terms of what had happened as opposed to creating a society that would ultimately forget seems to be the wiser choice, but I think that the conversation between the Adamas about how it was amazing that they found a group of humans that had evolved completely seperately sheds some light on this.

    They saw that ultimately, humans are MEANT to exist in the universe, despite all their flaws, through divine intervention or otherwise, and I think it is because of this, that they ultimately took a (strangely optimistic) view that all humans needed was a fresh start, and that the legacy of the colonists would not be science and technology, but rather the best aspects of themselves (as Anders put it, the moments of perfection that all humans strive for). They hadn't really had this chance for a fresh start in their own society because the original human tribes brought technology from kobol to both the colonies and earth.

    The skip ahead 150 000 years and the montage of robots at the end was fitting, as was the surprisingly optimistic Caprica 6 angel at the end, and I paraphrase:

    "Do you think that humanity is doomed to go through the cycle yet again?"

    "No, I don't think they are - something seems different now"


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  • Avatar of englishguy1969


    [2]Mar 22, 2009
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    I liked the ending and agree with most of what ballack08 is saying. For me a worse ending which seems to be the one everyone else wanted was for them to settle on Earth2 as a modern civilisation. So that in a few years the network looking to milk the Battlestar cash cow will do a spin off show "BSG: Crusade" and then the potentially even worse follow up spin off "BSG: Legend of the Rangers"... I think Alan Moore did us a favour and gave us an ending which we will debate for many years to come!
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  • Avatar of Omnia87


    [3]Mar 22, 2009
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    I'm not totally sure about the 'rules' that you had in mind for this thread. It seems somewhat that you prefer to hear only from the people who loved the finale in this thread, but you didn't explicitly say so. I'd like to respond to some of your statements, but if it WAS your intent to have an all positive thread here than you should ignore this post and make it more clear in the opening post .

    Anyway, I'd like to start off with the first thing you say, comparing your spiritual enjoyment with the discontent of the 'hardcore scifi fans'. Now if you look at those two groups, I'd clearly belong in the latter, so I'll try to correct something that you seem to believe as being 'our desire'. I don't need them to explain everything in hard science and observation. Trust me, no one expects them to explain the finer details of the inner workings of the FTL drive, since it's clear to us this technology doesn't exist. Nor do I require them to explain to me by what physics Kara Thrace was brought from that maelstrom to 13th colony Earth. To be honest even, sometimes I feel these kind of 'details' can ruin the overall experience of the story, because they often remind you of the fact that some things are just impossible, and them trying to use science to justify certain plot events makes that painfully more clear than necessary.

    That having been said, the mistake you make is presuming that when people are asking for answers / explanations / the truth, they're looking for the minute details. While in fact all they want is just the major lines. Things like: Why is it important that man and cylon live together, and such things.

    Personally I don't believe in God, which makes it especially difficult for me to accept God as any kind of explanation for anything. But sometimes in stories it can be interesting to involve the workings of a higher power. So that's also not the thing that breaks the finale for me. The problem lies in the fact that they keep telling us that God has a plan, without letting us know in any way what it is. That makes things very uninteresting.

    You see God might be able to see a perfectly good reason for having my house burned down, but if he never lets me know what good it is to me I'll just be very pissed off. Now if this God has a plan and the characters involved in his plan don't need to know how it works then he will probably not tell them. But WE need to know. WE watch the show, it was WRITTEN for us. To ENTERTAIN us. You can't tell me you enjoy watching a show where people have to struggle over and over, while Head Six whispers to us every 5 episodes or so that God has a plan, and that all these events are tied into them, but then to find out at the end that God didn't feel like letting you know what he was doing.

    I enjoy watching well staged plots unfold, the climax you feel when 'you know the truth' (which was the promise they made during their advertising btw). When many events in a plot start to make even more sense. To find out in the end that it was a divine plan that will be kept from us for the rest of time is just not entertaining. And I watch TV to be entertained, and so do you.

    Edited on 03/22/2009 2:26pm
    Edited 3 total times.
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  • Avatar of MetaLuna


    [4]Mar 22, 2009
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    I think the theme of "man and Cylon living together" reflects a standard theme on Earth, that living in harmony with one who used to be your enemy is preferable to pretending the other doesn't exist.

    Many aspects of this show simply wouldn't have happened without apparent supernatural interference. For example, without the Head Six, Baltar never would have tried to connect with the fleet's Six, and given her a nuke that eventually led the Cylons to New Caprica. And that was good, because without the Cylons to force them to keep moving, they never would have found true Earth. Starbuck had to return to Caprica for artifacts to fulfill the prophecies, or she wouldn't have retrieved Anders. Without Hera's "star chart" drawing, Starbuck may not have made the connection between the song she had been taught and the coordinates for Earth. Baltar's head six was aware of many truths that he had absolutely no way of knowing otherwise, and the revelation that Caprica had a Head Baltar showed that they were both being shown things that neither could have known - and that it wasn't some kind of Cylon projection.

    The impression that I got from the show was that the "everything has happened before" mantra was basically referring to life, in general, as a cycle. "God's" interference in this particular instance was what led to the cycle being broken. I believe they left it open to interpretation who or what "God" is, and with good reason.

    I get why some people felt like it was an unsatisfying ending (I found it maybe a bit preachy myself), but I don't think it's fair to say that ANY ending involving a supernatural explanation means the writers are cheating. If you really want to see what happens when a writer paints themselves into a corner, read "The Stand." Great story, good adventure (so to speak), uh oh, how do we end it... Fwoooosh! Hand of God! I don't feel it's fair to say that's what happened in this series. There was build up, and then there was a little bit of ambiguity. How much of a hand, exactly, did "God" have? And who or what is God? Ambiguity has gotten very popular in modern-day storytelling. Why would you expect different from this show?

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  • Avatar of tubbyjames


    [5]Mar 22, 2009
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    since someone has locked the other 2 threads complaining about the ending I am going to post what i wanted to there here.

    I agree it was a sad way for a great series to go out.

    Being a big fan of Lost also this really worries me as after this and the Sopranos the writers will be feeling some of the pressure come off I wouldn't be suprised if it ends with Locke telling Jack how some greater power wanted all this to happen. These series writers need to go and study the final seaosn of the sheild to find out how to give a great series the finale it deserves.

    Anyway another really annoying bit for me was Helo getting shot multiple times by cylon weapons then living. Also the head cylon dude Caval reverting back to his quantum Leap days with the 'your keeping 2 civalisations waiting here' line that seemed out of place with th paranioa they were trying to show.

    What was with Baltars and No6s big role in hera's future which seemed to consist of locking the door and walking to the control room wiht her. Hardly vital stuff.

    They would have been better having No6 and Balthar actually rescue the girl and get her onto a raptor piloted by Lee. The parents sharon and Helo should have been toast as should the final 5 and Adama and Roslyn, Starbuck and the Galatica. The idea of destroying the whole cylon colony seemed preposterous and unnecessary as they only needed to kill Caval with no resurrection since he seemed the sole motivation behind the cylons still wanting revenge and to pursue the humans since the Cylon civil war. They just needed to have the Battlestar go down with Caval onboard IMO.

    Heck they should have made the rescue of the girl a by product of the final assault. In the leadup to the finale they should have had Caval lead the cylon base ships in attack against the fleet to cause a distraction and allow Boomer to kidnapp the child. The offshot of this attack could have been the battlestar becoming beyond repair. Then they could have made the focus of the finale Adama's coming to the realisation that the cylons would never stop hunting them why Caval was alive (The final five could have helped wiht this) and that he needed to make one final assault and kill Caval to attempt to stop the cylons thirst for revenge on humanity while he still had the Battlestar at his disposal. His own health failing along with the Ships and Roslyns could have added to this.

    Once Lee, Baltar and No 6 got the girl back to the fleet she could have then led them to Earth 2 at least making her important.

    Edited on 03/22/2009 6:43pm
    Edited 4 total times.
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  • Avatar of MajLorne


    [6]Mar 22, 2009
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    In an indirect way Hera did. She drew those dots, which were the notes kara played on the piano and later translated into numbers used as coordinates to Earth 2. So while not done on her own in the final episode, she did do her part to lead the fleet to Earth.
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  • Avatar of jw2468


    [7]Mar 22, 2009
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    I thought the finale was done well and was satisfying. I think a lot of people are forgetting the fact that the whole goal of the show was to find Earth and they actually did that. Be happy! Now, I wouldn't have abandoned every bit of technology, but I can see kinda why they did it; they wanted to do everything they could to break the cycle. I personally would not have chosen to have shown Roslin's death. It wasn't that it was bad T.V., it was actually one of the most touching scenes I've ever seen, but it was just to sad seeing Adama like that. I think that we can all agree that the last few minutes of the show were pretty much bad and unnecessary, I think that they should have ended it with that last scene of Adama, but that's just me. All in all I think they did a good job. It wasn't perfect, but it wasn't a disappointment.
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  • Avatar of logossun


    [8]Mar 23, 2009
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    Boy, that devine intervention sure does work in a load of ways: live angels, head angels, button fingers of dead soldiers, cryptic messages upon cryptic messages (upon cryptic messages) - and all to have it repeatet later. Sure does sound like a pretty sadistic game to me. Praise the divine intervention.
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  • Avatar of MetaLuna


    [9]Mar 23, 2009
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    logossun wrote:

    Haven't you read the Bible? You just described, indirectly, half of it.
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  • Avatar of Jeric-Ho


    [10]Mar 23, 2009
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    I loved it! I don't think they could have done a better ending! I will still wonder who 'The Daniel' model was though, as I thought we would have seen him in the final episodes! Maybe leaving it open for Caprica and the cylon creation!

    Great show finale! Long live Galactica!
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  • Avatar of JayneCobb1969


    [11]Mar 23, 2009
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    I really loved BSG at the beginning but this last season has left me feeling betrayed!.. We were lead to believe that Ron Moore had a complete vision of where the show was going and I for one was excited to see it unfold. Unfortunately it became more and more painfully obvious as the last season progressed that he was making it all up on the fly and in the end didnt know how to finish it.. The finale we saw was to me just a fob off!
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  • Avatar of macjay33


    [12]Mar 24, 2009
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    I liked the ending. I don't think Starbuck's story was explained satisfactorily, but I don't care. I don't need everything explained. Enough stuff was. I definitely do not believe she was an angel. I do believe that there was an angelic version of 6 and Baltar though. But 3 is a crowd!

    I love everything else they did with the new Earth. I'm not sure I bought into everyone going their separate ways, but who knows maybe they changed their mind later on.

    It was a little bit convenient how the Cylons were stopped by an underwhelming force, but hey this is a scifi show, not rocket science. You, do have to suspend the disbelief sometimes you know. And it's fun. It makes the episodes even better.

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  • Avatar of zhangliao1


    [13]Mar 24, 2009
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    iv got to admit the conclusion of the opera house didn't impress me
    they had made it seem so important and then it wasn't it would have been better if helo and the 8 died

    i was very annoyed when it seemed like they were going to give over resurrection again in exchange for the end of the war again and i was very happy when that didnt work out

    it was stupid that they gave up technology and memory of what happened for future generations as keeping it all would have been the best way to prevent it from happening again instead of gambling on it

    but it was still a great episode i loved it

    although i really wished we could have seen the 13th model oh well
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  • Avatar of jezzasparky


    [14]Mar 25, 2009
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    I loved it!

    It answered all the questions I wanted answered

    I don't have a problem with Starbuck being an angel - head Six and head Baltar weren't the only ones - what about the Leoben that Starbuck saw just before she went into the Maelstrom!? I don't understand why people have such a problem with it - right from season 1 Head Six was saying she was an angel of God - it's just we didn't take her word for it because Baltar didn't believe her (if that makes sense)

    I would've loved to have seen the 13th model but understand that the whole thing with him really was just a way to explain the cylon model numbering (as stated by the producers in various interviews)

    I loved the last few minutes - thought it was brilliant that they showed the potential for the cycle to start again, but also loved that after all the darkness it ended on a note of hope - the human race had survived!

    I thought that leaving the technology behind made sense - after what's happened they would naturally be terrified of it all happening again and would want to start over. I know some people are saying that it was stupid and that they would all die etc etc..... but I don't think that's true - in real life the human race survived fine without technology for how many centuries??!!! They had that whole conversation about "I'll show you how to hunt" "let's build a farm" etc etc - they would've been fine! they weren't completely clueless about surviving off the land.

    I've also seen posts complaining that in the end after all that Hera was nothing special - I don't think that's true - Starbuck wouldn't have worked out that the song held coordinates in it without her. If Galactica hadn't gone after her they wouldn't have been in such a dire spot that they had to just jump wherever (leading to Starbuck winging it and putting those coordinates in) (before anyone says - I think that had Galactica not been alone they wouldn't have been able to do that - Adama wouldn't have jumped without the rest of the fleet and they wouldn't have taken such a risk of just jumping wherever with the fleet in tow). Also with her particular half cylon half colonial DNA it's Hera that's Mitachondrial Eve (sp??) - not one of the colonials - not one of the cylons. I can only presume that cylons and colonials followed the example set by her and interbred... (although - okay I agree - that wasn't explained fully)

    There are also people complaining about the thing with the star map and the constellations matching and 'are we expected to believe the stars match from that planet too' and the scrolls of Pythia etc .I don't see what the problem is there either - the star map they found led to Earth - the original Earth - the Earth that the 13th tribe went to - their promised land that all their prophecies and scrolls etc were talking about. The scrolls did not know that the 13th tribe would - in the meantime - be destroyed and the promised land would actually be a wasteland by the time anyone found it. The song led to a new planet that they then just called Earth (in honour of the ideal/dream that they had been chasing and that been taken from them) the song alone - not star maps not scrolls not anything else that they had originally been following. So I don't have a problem with that either!

    I loved the little nods to the original series...


    The only thing I didn't like, and didn't get and agree with the other people about is why Adama left Lee! If he's just lost his girlfriend surely he would want the only family he has left with him!!! Especially after everything they've been through!

    Edited on 03/26/2009 2:07am
    Edited 2 total times.
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