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Superman has always stood for Truth, Justice and the American Way, yet DC has hired Orson Scott Card to write him -- Card is an extremist Mormon who is on the board of the National Organization for Marriage and has openly advocated armed rebellion against the US if Gay Marriage is legalized.  He denies truth, opposes justice and advocates treason.   Why is this lunatic being hired to write Superman?

Tell DC Comics that you're not cool with this. 

Sign now:

EDITED TO ADD:   Attention members of the Oppressed Straight White Male club -- your comments will be deleted.   Don't bother.  You're as inconsequential to this discussion as you are in real life.

EDITED AGAIN TO ADD:  Folks, if you're itching to post a comment, PLEASE bother to read the comments ahead of yours first.   Chances are, your point has already been addressed.    Nothing says "troll" quite so loudly as "HEY HERES THIS THING THAT HAS ALREADY BEEN SAID A DOZEN TIMES.  WHAT ABOUT THAT, BRO?"    Don't be That Guy.

FINAL EDIT: Comments closed, as I have no desire to engage in whack-a-troll all night long.﻿
John Hart's profile photoChris Groff's profile photoWilliam C Bert's profile photoEric Paquette's profile photo
Is Orson Scott Card the lead writer of the new comic or is he just writing one story among the dozens scheduled by different authors?﻿
He's been hired to write the first arc. (As if that distinction somehow is relevant.)﻿
P Duggan
Didn't you post something a while a go about how it was awful to start petitions to deny someone a livelihood and work? ﻿
+P Duggan   Yes, I did.    I want to do this awful thing to Card, because he's directly attacking my family, so I'm attacking him in return.  I have no illusions here.   I'm going after his livelihood.  Thanks for the question, doughboy.﻿
A petition won't influence DC, only sales figures.

Of course, I wasn't planning on buying it anyway.﻿
+Jesse Butler True -- but a petition WILL get noticed by media and get coverage (examples so far:  Fox, The Guardian, Huffington, The NY Daily News).  Warner Brothers will notice that -- especially with so much riding on the new film.﻿
I approve of this petition, but then I also don't have a general problem with providing consequences to the actions folks take; he wants to take a public position that potentially impacts the lives of others, then he can live with the reactions of people who feel that position harms them.﻿
Gareth...really. if you need something REAL to worry about, I can give you something,. but the reigious leanings of the cartoonist that draws anon-existent super-hero? That so FOXNews like﻿
+Michael McMullan     That's an important distinction.  Card is actively anti-gay, spearheading legislation through NOM, the whole Prop8 thing, etc. -- that's a bit different than "I disagree with something he says, so TAKE AWAY HIS LIVELIHOOD" -- but I suspect the nuance would be lost on doughboys looking to make "gotcha!" criticisms.﻿
...Orson Scott Card is a pretty famous author whose most famous work is being adapted into a big sci-fi movie that'll have Harrison Ford in a major role. He's a well-known name in his religion and speculative/sci-fi fiction.

Feel as you'd like about the importance of Superman or Card's position, but he's hardly some random "cartoonist" with no wider influence.﻿
+Steve James You're wrong.   Cards actions through NOM go beyond "religious leanings" and into actions that directly affect my family.    I somehow doubt you'd be as dismissive if DC hired a Klan grand dragon, but it's the same fucking thing.﻿
Can someone's personal belief and freedom of speech be separate from their work? I am not arguing gay or anti gay, but based on the comments, he should be denied the position because he is opposed to what the beliefs are of .. a fictional comic. In my Mind it would be like hiring an anti-man Lesbian woman to work in the Viagra factory. Yes it sounds comical but no one would stop her from trying to do the job. I think a character attack should be on the character, not place of employment/work. BTW I live in a 3rd world country.. so feel fre to comment on that as well.﻿
Can you please make a list of all Superman writers that you boycott so people know which issues they should buy in digital format? I would be interested to know how many meet your criteria for being allowed to write Superman. Please include Action Comics, Superboy, Superman's Pal Jimmy Olsen, Superman's Girlfriend Lois Lane, and Superman the Man of Steel.
I don't care about the other 20 something titles Superman appears in so much.
Also, can you please tell me how many people NOM has lynched in its history. You compared it to the KKK, I am just trying to grasp how similar they are or if your statement is something along the lines of people comparing Obama to Hitler.﻿
He should be denied the position because he publicly, actively opposes the ideals of the character he has been contracted to write for.


He's not working on an assembly line.

A better metaphor: It would be like putting a zero-population-growth activist in charge of a fertility clinic, or making a corporate CEO the Secretary of Labor.﻿
openly advocated armed rebellion against the US if Gay Marriage is legalized

No matter how conservative you are that is really extreme. Does he know it wouldn't be mandatory?﻿
Sadly for zealots like that what they know is inconsequential to what they preach.  They probably understand that it's not mandatory.  But they want their peon followers to think it is.﻿
+Nobilis Reed I like the analogy! Given that his views on homosexuality is public knowledge, wouldn't what he writes be under more scrutiny? Compared to if it wasn't public knowledge and he would attempt to push a propaganda? - Just wanted to throw a wrench in the works and get more ideas from everyone﻿
+Geovanni Martinez It doesn't matter -- I was just trying to find a historical context specific to your country so that I could make my point more clear.     

From what little familiarity I have with Belize, this situation would be like a racist put in charge of preservation of Maya culture.    Somebody who actively goes against the principles they're hired to enact.

That's not the best analogy, but that's more due to my not knowing more about Belize.﻿
If anyone knows of any KKK members writing for DC or Marvel, I would gladly boycott then too. ;)﻿
+Gareth Skarka +Nobilis Reed , I get that point of view, a Grand master being placed in charge of ethnic policies is a travesty. In this particular case; It's a fictional comic; the policies of DC does not affect the government - as would "a racist put in charge of preservation of Maya culture." it is a private institution, and again, someone like him who's personal views are public knowledge leave it open to much more scrutiny. He will be under a magnifying glass in what he does, and if he does cross the line, the fans/administration will take measures.﻿
+Geovanni Martinez If DC goes through with this, I expect that there will be a great deal of scrutiny.

My guess is that there will be no mention, at all, of anything related to the diversity of the American family, or of families in general. If any families appear at all, they will be monogamous, married, and heterosexual. He will erase any concept that he considers deviant.﻿
In the off chance that you are actually interested in a response that you could find just as easily through an internet search, and aren't just trying making a bullshit point, +Dan Peterson:

They actively lobby for laws to deny my family civil rights, nation-wide.  

Now, I'm sure you'll reducto-ad-absurdam that into "but they don't lynch people" -- as if that makes you correct.  So go ahead and do that, so that everybody can see, and we can get on with ignoring you.﻿
My biggest issue that it would open  a can of worms in that, someone's personal yet public belief would alienate them from the ability to be employed. This is a bad comparison but using your imagination, imagine a gay rights activist being fired from DC when it was considered taboo(not the best choice of words) to be gay.﻿
+Stuart Robertson Looks like this post is attracting wider attention and the Oppressed Straight White Male Minority is starting to show up to comment.

Pursuant to my new policy for 2013, if they're irritating, I just delete the comments -- no point in debating them, and as an added bonus it pisses them off.﻿
+Geovanni Martinez If someone who is working for Truth, Justice, and the American Way got fired from DC, that would be wrong.

Someone who is working for Lies, Oppression, and Treason gets fired from DC, it's poetic justice.﻿
I don't get why people care so much about what other people want to do with their lives. What difference does it make if other people have different things that make them happy than you do if it's not hurting anyone?﻿
Yeah, live and let live.  If you are against the writer of the comic, don't buy it.  Freedom of speech is just that.  The individual has the choice not to listen.﻿
One good thing: He's doing one arc of a comic that is not in continuity. He will also be (I would hope) under editorial scrutiny - and comics editorial scrutiny is not quite the same as a publisher editing a novel. Comics editors have a responsibility for keeping continuity and feel/theme across books and writers.

I don't buy anything by Card. I probably won't go see the Ender's Game movie unless I get hauled. I refuse to give him money knowing what kind of groups he gives financial support to. I also avoid movies with Tom Cruise in them because I don't support the organization he tithes to.

However, IF Card was NOT giving money to these groups and simply being a bigot on his own dime, I would be fine. He's entitled to his opinions, and I wouldn't let his opinions affect whether I bought his work.

All that said...Card. Superman. No. Regardless of his politics, his writing style is not well-suited to handling the character, in my entirely aesthetic and subjective opinion.﻿
+Stuart Robertson According to the alpha-male wannabe crowd that I'm deleting, it's "not the American way."     In other words, it's not something they understand, so they're afraid that it minimizes their importance -- and the great thing is?   IT TOTALLY DOES.﻿
+Douglas Thurman Yeah, I agree DC can hire this guy if they want. It's their choice. I kind of like the vibe from Archie Comics a bit more though:



Weird that DC would (seemingly) take the opposite position with putting this guy on Superman. 

Oh well... as long as Art Baltazar keeps writing Superman Family Adventures we'll keep buying that title. :)﻿
+Gareth Skarka Guys who care so much about what other guys are doing aren't very alpha-male. That's petty bullshit. :)﻿
Apparently, this post appeared on the Google Trends "Gay Marriage" -- which explains the sudden influx of grammatically-challenged terrified little white boys.    Ignore them, folks -- I'll delete them as they pop up.﻿
I don't think there's any denial that anti-gay people exist. It's an accepted fact that they want to make sure everyone knows  about their ignorance.﻿
Complicated area for me but I think what distinguishes Card from just having an opinion one might not agree with (which he's entitled to) he actively uses his money - and influence - to try and impose his peculiar, religious, pseudo-morality on others. While I have read and enjoyed his books in the past and while I am committed to free speech - even 'problematic' free speech - he crosses a line there that I am not happy having my money supporting.﻿
Again:   Don't respond to trolls, please.﻿
I'm not so sure here. I know very little of this man and his previous work, but I doubt that his beliefs will interfere with his work if DC decided to hire him for one of his most famous titles. Why would they risk it when they've gone to such lengths to create and incorporate LGBT characters over the years?

I have my own beliefs, he has his, and you have yours. I refuse to blindly take a side here when I have yet to see how Card writes the character.﻿
+Dial Tone  "I don't know what you're talking about, but here's what I think" is not really a winning strategy for life.

With all due respect, I think you should read up on the guy, and specifically the actions he's taken (some of which has been discussed in this thread, which apparently you didn't read).﻿
His personal views, while radical, have nothing to do with his ability to write amazing characters. Ender Wiggin comes to mind.﻿
I know that I have a long way to go in life. I'm seventeen, and I'll learn what's best for me. But what I'm trying to say here is that it's too early to determine what's going on here. It seems that you're trying to jump the gun on something that could go a variety of ways, claiming that due to this man's beliefs that it could only end in one way.﻿
Free Speech doesn't mean free from consequences, it means freedom from government censorship. And we have the choice not to but things from people who hate.﻿
+Stuart Robertson Nah, I'll just keep deleting the alpha-male wannabes, and we can keep having discussion.   The deleted accusing me of "cowardice" haven't figured out that I'm NOT DELETING the ones who disagree and can participate in a reasonable discussion.﻿
+James Desborough  Exactly my point -- this isn't "he says shit that I disagree with" this is "he directly does shit to attack my family.﻿
+David Back ...and I love the Alvin Maker stories.   That doesn't change the fact that he is absolutely, 100% unsuitable for this job, because of his stated opposition to the established ideals of the character.﻿
The argument isn't that he can't write a good story.  The argument is that he shouldn't be given the chance.  Not so much because his personal views may temper the character, which they may.  But because DC shouldn't be supporting someone that is actively trying to push out this kind of agenda. ﻿
Zak Smith
If you're someone with Orson Scott Card's education living in the western world in 2013 and you're still a homphobe, you shouldn't have anything .  Much less a job. Much less a job where people pay you lots of money. Much less a job where the public can see it.﻿
+Dial Tone "It's too early to determine..."    No, it really isn't.   Again-- read up on Card's actions.    ﻿
I want to make my stance clear.  I hate that Card is so veheminately anti gay and because I have friends who are gay will not buy anything else Card writes under his own aegis.  That said, DC will be sitting over his shoulder, he is a Fantastic writer for certain concept work (such as what constitutes sentience or free will) and to be honest:  How much of the Superman story actually deals with sexuality at all?  ﻿
I can't find his earlier essay about gays that convinced me never to purchase anything by him again, but it basically told gays that lots of people desire sin. But they should suck it up, marry, and reproduce like good Mormons.

Here's a more recent one:

I was quite a fan of his writing in my youth before I learned more about him.

Free Speech means he can write what he wants. It also means we can tell others why we choose not to support his work.﻿
+Gareth Skarka Thanks for bringing this up. I will not be buying any DC comics for a while I guess. I have boycotted Card for years, and systematically avoid biting any book with even a blurb by him. I also make a distinction between Card's political behavior and failure to engage respectfully with his critics for other Mormon SFF authors such as Brandon Sanderson who I think genuinely recognizes that he has things to learn﻿
That should have been buying, not biting but it feels appropriate somehow﻿
With all do respect, the clause, "You're as inconsequential to this discussion as you are in real life," is rather rude for those of us straight white males who do think superman should stand up for everyone.﻿
+Kevin A R Schendell   Leaving aside the fact that any story dealing with human interaction deals with sexuality, the content of what he will write for Superman is not the issue.    The issue is DC giving money to somebody who uses that money to advocate armed rebellion and lobbies lawmakers to deny others human rights.   This is an effort to drive acceptance of that belief from the public square -- free speech or no.    It should be consigned to the same dustbin of history as "genteel" racism.   Once socially acceptable in certain circles, now publicly shamed.﻿
I mean yeah, screw those guys who think we have it hard but don't stoop to their level.﻿
Gareth, you want people to boycott the comic under the stipulation that the writer they hired makes life for you more difficult because his beliefs directly effect you through donations and work with NOM.
I suggested you take a look at past writers DC has hired. You might be surprised to find they have hired many liberal/conservative people to write Superman and they probably won't stop. Take a look at Alan Moore's lifestyle and realize that many fans think he is crazy but love some of his fiction and think he wrote some of the best Superman stories.
I think raising awareness about the writer's public beliefs is fine, but don't lead a campaign to run him out of a job. Try changing his mind about your lifestyle in a better way. Try looking at his best qualities, not his worst. ﻿
+Rick Freeman If you're not one of the ones who whines about being oppressed, then you're not in the very specific club I mentioned.

Then again, you did whine that I was being "rude", so maybe you are.﻿
Interesting thread. I think it's a good idea to see what he actually does with the character. I'm a Christian and I wouldn't drop a down a comic by a writer whose lifestyle I disagree with just because of his lifestyle. I think that would be wrong. For example I plan to see the new Superman movie. I don't know which actor is gay, if a Wiccan edited it or if a liar or greedy person worked the camera nor do I care. That is those folks lives and I have real beliefs. But those beliefs have more to do with me loving folks vs hating on people or taking up arms to fight America

To that end if I don't want to support something I won't support it. Bit this guy will be writing into a story with an established brand and story. At the end of the day he doesn't have a whole lot of room for error or differentiators. ﻿
+Chris Groff speaks of agendas and  +Gareth Skarka talks about affecting family. Well, there are plenty of agendas that affect me and mine, like when the FCC Merger Board approved Comcas's acquisition of Universal. Now, according to conventional (and legal) precedent, that's an illegal merger. But, it happened anyway. And 3 days later, the head of the Merger Board, who broke the tie in Comcast's favor, resigns from the FCC to become Comcast's CEO of Internation Affairs. My question to you gentlemen is which is more dangerous: some crackpot author who goes around talking a big game, when in reality, the only thing he will actually do is burrow deeper into his cave and just yell louder; or the major municipal and federal powers that are setting precedents and trends that are very dangerous to political to financial stability for everyone?﻿
+Dan Peterson Oh, where to begin....

1) I'm not "leading a campaign" -- I linked to a petition, started by somebody else.

2) I'm not gay -- I have gay family members.

3) "Your Lifestyle"...  and there we have it.     Red-flag achieved.   If you want to be a stealth homophobe, you should avoid the catchphrases of your movement.

Congratulations -- all your further posts will be deleted.﻿
Who cares if he is anti gay as long as he dose not put it in his work what's the problem.﻿
+David Back NOM, which Card runs as a board member, spearheaded anti-gay legislation nationwide -- which passed into law in several states.  This is not just an issue of some crackpot in a cave, despite your valiant attempt to steer the conversation away towards an unrelated issue.﻿
How would people feel if Fred Phelps was hired to write Superman? I know it'd put me off wanting to read it...﻿
+Nobilis Reed +Gareth Skarka I can understand personal discontent with an individual for their beliefs, and the message they perpetuate. Chic-Fil-A COO made comments against gay marriage and the gay community boycotted the company because of 1 individual's belief. I am assuming that there is no Anti gay employee policy or spit on a gay person's sandwich policy. It's just 1 man choosing to express his beliefs. I am 100% sure it happens the other way around, but I cannot yet find any public available article. 

Since his personal views are public he will be under a microscope. I think that in itself is a great balance. The LGBT community will watch everything he does in the comic.

I do not support oppression of people(either a gay person or a straight person). I feel that someone should have the freedom of expressing their views without fear of being assaulted. Some people believe that homosexuality is against the laws of nature and some vice versa <-- that is their right. 

As for Mr. Card's NOM activities, yes they don't physically assault people but they are lobbyist. The United States is a democratic country where the majority of people choose to vote for what they believe is right. If the Majority of people in California choose to not accept gay marriage, then democracy won. It might not be fair to homosexual community, but organize and do the same. But don't make someone go broke and homeless because their ideas are not inline with yours. 

For the record, I am not concerned with who is Gay or not, what ever 1, 2 3, or 50 individuals chose to do to themselves in privacy and all members are willing, that is their own prerogative. ﻿
Once more for the slow people. The problem - at least for me - isn't that he has views I don't agree with. That part doesn't bother me. The problem is that in buying something by him I would be contributing money to his wages which would then be used to actively and assertively prosecute and campaign for the imposition of outdated and nonsensical religious morality on the world.

I do not choose to give money to, for example, far right parties because I do not support their ends. I would not want to contribute money to an anti-gay organisation either.

Other authors may have views I don't agree with while also being talented. Peter F Hamilton for example is quite right wing but a talented author. He does not - however, publicly and monetarily spearhead aggressive political campaigns to deny anyone equal rights.﻿
+Geovanni Martinez "but organize and do the same."   Which is exactly what's occurring here -- organizing and lobbying.    

Thank you for sharing your opinion.﻿
+James Desborough  Nice try, but the folks you're addressing don't read the comments of others -- they just want to make their points.﻿
+Stuart Robertson Yeah I know -- I especially like the "Now watch this get deleted LOL" dare that they add, as if it will somehow shame me into leaving it up, cowed by their righteous christian man-phallus.﻿
Posting "Chill" graphics = deleted.   UMADBRO?﻿
I don't think superman would be gay though....he fell in love with Lois Lane...

I see the problem with hiring him though.  Superman would never advocate treason just for legalizing gayness.﻿
Alright, let's try this.

People can believe whatever they damn well please. Hate gay people? Hate black people? Hate whoever? Go ahead. I'll think you are stupid, but you have that right.

But when your beliefs inform your actions, and your actions actively interfere with people's rights of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, well, tough. I will fight you on this every step of the way.  The issue comes from Orson Scott Card not being some random guy opposing the ability of two people of informed consent to enter into a civil contract, but from someone contributing relatively vast amounts of  money and effort to impose his religious lifestyle upon others whose actions cause him no harm. His is ultimately a supremacist view; that his existence is better and more worthwhile than others solely based on a particular sexual orientation.

Also, we aren't a 'democracy', +Geovanni Martinez  We have a representative government where we elect people to enact laws; they often (although not as much recently) act in the interest of logic and justice rather than purely the will of the people. A great deal of these more-recent referendum-based policies which allow people to vote on the civil rights of others is an example of the worst form of populism: the tyranny of the majority.

Meanwhile, Card's support NOM has actively interfered with the financial well-being of thousands of people, for no reason other than those people do not like them. Not because those people did something wrong, or harmed others. Simply because they are being supremacist in their views.﻿
And Gareth has a point.  A petition will definitely gain a lot of media attention when presented to the right people.  I would know....﻿
I'm puzzled.  This isn't the first comic book he has written.  Was there any such petition against his writing Ultimate Ironman?  If not, why now?  Had his activities for NOM only started recently?﻿
+Caias Ward I don't live there so had no clue that the actions of NOM affect people's careers/financial lives. I am aware of Hate issues as related to me by a cousin who faces it regularly from another student as she is studying in a US university. If NOM does help support firing gay people from the work place, then this is fighting fire with fire. 

I would personally prefer the approach of educating the people of the community/town/state/nation. I am learning about some of the issues the gay community faces in the US here. But proper education I believe is the key to ending oppression. But that is my opinion from someone outside looking in.﻿
+Geovanni Martinez It's not an issue of physical assault all the time.  The assault is against liberties of those individuals.  Which is what NOM is doing and he's advocating.

It's easy to say 'oh he's not hurting anyone' because he's not chasing people around with a bat.  But to believe that people aren't being hurt because of NOM and other similar lobby groups is akin to closing your eyes and believing you are invisible.﻿
+John Hart There were petitions, but they got less notice because Ultimate Iron Man is an alternate-continuity version of a B-list hero -- well, B-List before the films -- with a far lower profile than Superman.﻿
+Geovanni Martinez  Right now, on a federal level, marriages between same-sex people are not recognized. As a result, they are denied hundreds of civil benefits. This is a matter of religious forces interfering with the civil government.﻿
I have to admit that I'm a bit confused as to why a non-citizen, with no "dog in this fight", as the saying goes, would feel the need to have a position on this issue and participate in the discussion.﻿
This is a comic book! Since when to people turn to comic books looling for truth, justice and treason? ﻿
+Chris Groff He is hurting people through miseducation, education would be the better way of fighting such a situation I believe. +Caias Ward  And he is lobbying to remove the right of gay families which i believe is wrong. 
I do get that currently the US government is more a popularity contest than subscribing to basic human rights and civil decency in some cases. His job would allow him to continuously support the NOM group. ﻿
- Card is a writer, he is being hired to write a story, not for his opinions

- DC is famous for being one of, if not the, most heavily editor controlled house in the industry.  If, and it's higly unlikely, Card goes off on a screed against anyone of whatever persuasion as part of his script, it will never see the light of day.

- The man is pruported to be quite good at what he does.  Personally I don't see it, Ender's Game was pretty good, the sequels less so.  I'm not really a fan.

- The fact remains that those protesting Card's hiring are advocating denying the man a job he is eminently qualified for, for no reason beyond what he personally believes.  How different is this than advocating for people to be dismissed from their jobs because they vote for the wrong candidate?

Of course, if Card's story follows the script in today's Gutters Webcomic...

- THAT is how you protest someone... Humor.﻿
+Clell Harmon the problem is that his beliefs inform his actions. Doesn't matter that he isn't using Superman as a platform; he himself advocates the denial of rights to people based on his supremacist views. This is not something to be rewarded.﻿
+Clell Harmon For the DOZENTH time, it's not about the content.  Please read the thread, where this has been addressed, several times over.

If you can't be bothered to read before posting, we shouldn't be bothered with your comment.﻿
After a certain length of commentary, it becomes prohibitive to read all the comments.  That being said (In regards to addendum two), Card tends to get worshipped by people that liked the Ender's Game series... but I don't like the man on the principals he espouses otherwise, both about gay rights as well as copyright.

That is all.﻿
"It becomes prohibitive to read all the comments" has to be the most bald-faced example of "I can't be bothered, but you should care what I think" that I've seen in a long, long time.

+Gareth Skarka The operative part of the sentence you left out was, "After a certain length of Commentary".

Tell me, when was the last time you read 102 pages of forum dialogue before commenting?﻿
It's 102 comments, not 102 pages of commentary.  That's like showing up to a book club and not bothering to read the book when you start talking. Except less reading on the part of reading comments.﻿
Are you refuting the fact that, after a certain length of commentary, regardless of the topic, that it becomes prohibitive to read all the comments?﻿
+Allen Hildebrandt Yes, I am.   Although apparently, reading comprehension appears to be a struggle for you, so maybe you're a special case.﻿
drags back the goalposts  I'm referring to the fact that 102 comments ≠ 102 pages.

Anything to add on the actual topic of OSC being a terrible choice for this comic as well as a terrible member of Team Human?﻿
+Gareth Skarka read the thread Gareth, and despite your protests, it IS about the content. Otherwise you are as big a bigot as Card is purported to be.

Card has the right to his beliefs, just like everyone else. I, for one, will protest anyone who would deny him a job for his beliefs, just as I would for someone with the polar opposite of his beliefs being denied one for theirs. Bigots are bigots no matter what side they are on.﻿
(Regarding a number of deleted posts)  +Caias Ward  Again, please don't respond to the trolls.   ﻿
+Clell Harmon I think gareth may have issue with someone who has vocally been anti-gay having a platform that, ostensibly, is representative of "American Values".

You are, of course, correct.  However much I hate Sean Hannity (As example), he has the right to be employed and spew his hatred.  At least according to this country.﻿
I can't believe I'm having to say this to +Allen Hildebrandt AGAIN, but -- no, that's not the issue, which HAS BEEN ADDRESSED SEVERAL TIMES in the fucking comments that you're obviously STILL not reading.﻿
+Clell Harmon ...  no. No.  NO.

It's not 'bigotry' to oppose someone who is trying to deny rights to others. This is a person with a wide platform who uses it to cause harm to others. I don't have to endorse that person's work, I don't have to support that person's work.

He can believe what he wants. But his beliefs inform his actions and his actions have been reprehensible. ﻿
If you actively attempt to impose your religion on people, particularly by force of law, thus denying them civil rights, you don't get my support including my money, even if that deprives you the ability to earn a living yourself. Free speech is not Free Speech Without Consequences.

Card has places himself on that list through his role in National Organization for Marriage.

This isn't theocracy. At least not yet. I won't be providing the means for it to get there, either.﻿
By +Clell Harmon 's logic, Mildred and Richard Loving were bigots for filing suit against the state of Virginia, who had the "right to their beliefs."﻿
+Gareth Skarka You're assuming I didn't read the comments.  From what you've said in the thread, You do have an issue with Card having the platform.  That is the appearance you are giving with your comments, in any case.

I'm in favor of people boycotting and actively speaking out against Card's fans and readers.  As stated, I don't particularly like him for several reasons... but he has the right to say whatever hateful bullshit he'd like.  It's the responsibility of the rest of us to make sure people see how this isn't a good thing.﻿
+Caias Ward yes. Yes. YES.

Just so we're on the same starting point:


If you would deny Card a job for his beliefs, you are a bigot.  If Card would deny you a job for your beliefs, he is a bigot.

Very true, there is absolutely no requirement for you to endorse or support Card's work.  I don't endorse or support him either, I've never understood his popularity.

BUT if you actively seek to deny him a job that those doing the hiring feel he is qualified for, for nothing beyond his beliefs, you are a bigot.

You can deny your own bigotry all you want, it doesn't bother me.﻿
+Allen Hildebrandt I'm assuming that because it's either that, or you just don't understand English.   This isn't about his "right to say" shit, and everything to do with DC funding him.   He can say whatever the fuck he wants -- and I can tell DC not to give him money that he then uses via his American Taliban Association to directly attack the civil rights of my family.     

As I've said several times before, which is why I assume you haven't read a goddamn thing -- otherwise you're just irretrievably stupid.

Run along now.   You don't get to talk any more.   ﻿
+Pierce Arner I've read it.    It doesn't change the fact that +Clell Harmon is one of those idiots espousing the toxic 'opposition to bigotry is being bigoted against the poor oppressed bigots' meme.﻿
+Clell Harmon  Nice begging the question there.

It's not his 'beliefs'. It's the fact that his actions are harming others and that he is on the board of an supremacist organization which is trying to enforce religious views on civil government.

Feel free to call me a bigot in that case. I don't accept your definition or your attempt to twist it around to apply to me for opposing someone who is actively harming others with his actions. I guess we were bigots for killing bin Ladin as well; he has the right to his beliefs, by your measure.﻿
+Gareth Skarka Well done Gareth, I don't usually see that type of hyperbolic strawman construction outside of the Right Wingnut sites.  You have successfully fallen to their level.  Well done indeed.

Loving v Virginia was people vs the state.  You are insulting yourself and everyone reading your words by comparing Card writing for a comic book with the rights of a pair of Human Beings to marry who they choose.

If you really believe your statement comparing my position to Virginia in Loving, you really need to calm down, take a few deep breaths from a paperbag and do your level best to reconnect to reality.  Really you should, it's nice here.﻿
For reference: I am opposing supremacy by those who are seeking to impose their religious lifestyle upon others and interfere with our civil government.﻿
Well if you want to tilt at windmills, go ahead. I think there is some nuance being lost in all the righteous fury in this thread, but that is the way of the world, it seems.﻿
+Gareth Skarka For the sake of argument, I think that if you made an analogy between this and how it's alike and dissimilar from Tom Cruise being asked to resign a role, due to his position in the church of Scientology, I think that it'd keep people from ascribing false statements and opinions to the idea you're attempting to get across here.﻿
+Clell Harmon "comparing Card writing for a comic book with the rights of a pair of Human Beings to marry who they choose."

Ironic, given that the reason I'm advocating a petition to DC is because Card, via the organization he runs, works to deny that very right.﻿
Now that I'm being flooded with such high-brow opinions as "PENISES ARE MADE FOR VAGINAS" on the one hand, and chin-stroking relativist wankery like "being against bigots is bigotry itself" on the other, comments are now closed.

Feel free to crow about how cowardly this move is, etc., on your own page.﻿