Comments on: AskMezza Comments on Ask MetaFilter post AskMezza Fri, 30 Nov 2012 08:11:06 -0800 Fri, 30 Nov 2012 08:23:02 -0800 en-us 60 Question: AskMezza What is the etymology of British nicknames ending in -zza/-zzer? <br /><br /> For example:<br> <li> Jeremy Clarkson &gt; Jezza<br> <li> Paul Gascoigne &gt; Gazza<br> <li> Laurence Fox &gt; Lozza<br> <li> Bazzer in <i>Lock, Stock, &amp; Two Smoking Barrels</i><br> <br> I'm trying to figure out what sorts of names get this treatment, and what the cultural "rules" are for applying it. It appears largely to be done with men's names that start with a consonant, though Harry Styles of One Direction is called "Hazza," so a glottal consonant seems to be sufficient. Some experts-on-the-Internet say this is a Cockney pattern, but I thought Cockney nicknames were more descriptive of person or occupation.</li></li></li></li>,2012:site.230026 Fri, 30 Nov 2012 08:11:06 -0800 catlet nicknames names language slang etymology By: bcwinters It could be a corruption of the <a href="">Oxford "-er"</a>?<br> <br> The blog <a href="">Separated by a Common Language notes</a> that most commonly "the -zza ending is added to the first syllable of a name whose second syllable starts with an /r/" (which covers Jeremy, Laurence, and the one I see most commonly, Cheryl Tweedy / Chezza) while Gascoine to Gazza is simply "mak[ing] a -zza out of sibilant sounds.",2012:site.230026-3328941 Fri, 30 Nov 2012 08:23:02 -0800 bcwinters By: EmpressCallipygos I wonder if it may be more general than that. I read somewhere that David Tennant -- whose actual given name is David McDonald - used to be nicknamed "Macca", after the last name. <br> <br> So maybe there's just a general British tendancy to use the "-a" sound for diminutives, like we use the "-ee" sound instead ("Johnny" for John, "Kimmy" for Kim, etc.). So you get "Macca" from McDonald - and, "Gazza" from "Gascoigne", "Lozza" from "Laurence", and "Jezza" from "Jeremy."<br> <br> As to why the "z" sound for "Jeremy" and "Laurence" - well, "Lorra" for "Laurence" maybe sounds too much like a girl's name, and "Jerra" just sounds kind of weird.,2012:site.230026-3328942 Fri, 30 Nov 2012 08:24:25 -0800 EmpressCallipygos By: zamboni In my experience, it's the R that does it, except in cases like Gascoigne where the s is already present.<br> <br> Je<i>r</i>emy -&gt; Jezza<br> Lau<i>r</i>ence -&gt; Lozza<br> Ba<i>rr</i>y -&gt; Bazza,2012:site.230026-3328943 Fri, 30 Nov 2012 08:24:55 -0800 zamboni By: dlugoczaj I'm American and clueless about the etymology, but I can tell you at least one reference where it's done with a female name: Helen Fielding's <em>Bridget Jones's Diary</em>, in which the heroine's friend Sharon is often referred to as "Shazzer."<br> <br> I think bcwinters has it with the R sound. My "Shazzer" example above corroborates, as does your first three examples (and Harry Styles) above. I'm also reminded of Barry Kent in Sue Townsend's Adrian Mole books, who often goes by "Baz.",2012:site.230026-3328944 Fri, 30 Nov 2012 08:25:07 -0800 dlugoczaj By: scruss I see it as a mix of tabloid-headline populism (where a five letter word just fits in the measure) and football chant rhythm ("Gaz-za! Gaz-za!"). Could it have arisen from the signwriter's contraction for Charles (Chas.), and someone's jocular attempt to pronounce it?,2012:site.230026-3328947 Fri, 30 Nov 2012 08:26:59 -0800 scruss By: dlugoczaj Now that I think about it, the Adrian Mole books indicate that the use of the Z for nicknames has been going on at least since the early 80s, though I don't know about the addition of the -a or -er. Not just Barry Kent, either--near the end of the first book, Adrian's dad oversees a clean-up crew of rowdy former juvenile delinquents, "Baz, Daz, Maz, Kev, Melv and Boz." Seems to be some kind of tough-guy indicator.,2012:site.230026-3328950 Fri, 30 Nov 2012 08:30:42 -0800 dlugoczaj By: MuffinMan Policemen are, of course, Rozzers. The etymology of which dates to 1893, may or may not have been polari, and I suspect predates the other "ozza/er" suffixes.<br> <br> If you're interested in the shortening of names, the technical term you want is <a href="">hypocoristic</a>.<br> <br> The appearance of "ozza" type nicknames was popularised by the red top papers and may have migrated off the football terraces. It and served several purposes: it saved space on the page, it created familiarity and it made everyone the common man. Sometimes ironically, to gently poke fun at them - Jezza for Jeremy Clarkson being a good example.<br> <br> Australians are the arch experts at this: shortening words or names and adding "o" at the end. Arvo, Salvo, Jacko etc.<br> <br> The other place where things get shortened quickly is <a href="">the military</a> and especially the Navy - sometimes for operational convenience and because it is an easy way to relieve boredom. Again, you find a few "zz" suffixes in there.,2012:site.230026-3328951 Fri, 30 Nov 2012 08:31:40 -0800 MuffinMan By: holgate On the female side, Caroline or Catherine can end up as Caz.<br> <br> It feels 80s-ish and tabloid-driven ('Hezza' for Michael Heseltine), perhaps with a bit of influence from the arrival of Australian daytime soaps. It exists in parallel to the "-ers" which is more Test Match Special. And I suppose the evolution of the playground taunt of the time, from "spastic" to "spaz" to "spazza", shows where the linguistic currents flow.,2012:site.230026-3328969 Fri, 30 Nov 2012 08:39:03 -0800 holgate By: kestrel251 Karen winds up as Kaz or Kazza. It's the "air" sound: Jeremy, Barry, Sharon, Karen, Caroline.,2012:site.230026-3328972 Fri, 30 Nov 2012 08:41:03 -0800 kestrel251 By: kestrel251 P.S. Australians do it too.,2012:site.230026-3328974 Fri, 30 Nov 2012 08:41:32 -0800 kestrel251 By: 256 Oh wow. I went to high school with a British Karen who insisted on being called Kaz and I thought she was just eccentric.,2012:site.230026-3329011 Fri, 30 Nov 2012 09:07:21 -0800 256 By: bendybendy let's not forget Mozzer, which conforms to the both the "r", 80s and (music) tabloid associations.,2012:site.230026-3329026 Fri, 30 Nov 2012 09:18:43 -0800 bendybendy By: marimeko Would Charles becoming Chas ('chazz') be an example of this? If so, then this has been around a long time.,2012:site.230026-3329033 Fri, 30 Nov 2012 09:26:15 -0800 marimeko By: The corpse in the library <a href="" title="catlet posted">&gt;</a> <i>I'm trying to figure out what sorts of names get this treatment</i><br> <br> Gary -&gt; Gazz or Gazza,2012:site.230026-3329035 Fri, 30 Nov 2012 09:29:44 -0800 The corpse in the library By: gaspode New Zealander here. <br> <br> Two of my cousins are Muzza (Mark) and Dazza (Darren) so yep, the R. Went to school with Gazza. <br> <br> oh, but here you go. Also was friends with Puzza (Paul). No R there. Has to be an outlier somewhere, I guess.,2012:site.230026-3329046 Fri, 30 Nov 2012 09:40:14 -0800 gaspode By: scruss It was enough of a thing in 1984 for the second series of <a href="">Alfresco</a> to have a Pretend Pub theme, with characters Bobzza (Robbie Coltrane), Shizza (Siobhan Redmond), Lord Stezza (Stephen Fry), Huzza (Hugh Laurie), Bezza (Ben Elton) and Ezza (Emma Thompson).,2012:site.230026-3329178 Fri, 30 Nov 2012 11:08:14 -0800 scruss By: Wrinkled Stumpskin I don't really have a clue, but there may be a <a href="">Dickensian connection.</a><br> <br> He's influential enough, particularly in the UK.,2012:site.230026-3329204 Fri, 30 Nov 2012 11:27:27 -0800 Wrinkled Stumpskin By: Joh This was definitely a thing pre-1984, as I had a friend at Junior school called Caz (Caroline), and calling people Shaz, Baz and so on was a normal shortening. I have no idea what the etymology is, but it kind of became a joke and that's why you end up with Gazza and so on, where the ending is applied to names that don't fit the rule of R. I think there is an implied class aspect to this as well, with the assumption than working class people would use this shortening and middle and upper class types would only use it sarcastically.,2012:site.230026-3329225 Fri, 30 Nov 2012 11:41:28 -0800 Joh By: verstegan It caught on in Britain in the 80s and 90s, and got taken up by some journalists as an ironic faux-working-class affectation. <a href="">David Runciman</a> wrote an article on <a href="">Paul Gascoigne</a> in the <a href=""><i>Modern Review</i></a> in 1991 with the title 'Wazza Mazza Wiz Gazza?' I have the impression it's declined a bit since then; one sometimes sees Boris Johnson called 'Bozza' but it's not as widely used as it would have been twenty years ago.,2012:site.230026-3329260 Fri, 30 Nov 2012 12:18:41 -0800 verstegan By: Jehan This pattern is a kind of strengthening, when a sound goes from 'weaker' to 'stronger'.* Sounds <em>tend</em> to go from stronger to weaker in a given context, but sometimes the opposite is true. In this case, it is the addition of the <em>-a</em> (most likely to make a diminutive or petname) to the first syllable of the name that provides the new context for the change, and the presence of the <em>-r-</em> is crucial. The <em>-r-</em> is now followed by a vowel where there wasn't one before, or a vowel of a different quality. Now <em>-r-</em> is a weak consonant, and <em>-z-</em> a stronger one, so we would expect the process not to work in this direction, and in most cases it doesn't. A <em>-z-</em> sound going to <em>-r-</em> is much more common, and has happened in many well-known languages, such as Latin and Germanic (hence why we have a pair like <em>was</em> and <em>were</em>). However, in this case the consonant is strengthening, not weakening. So, <em>Barry</em> &gt; <em>*Bara</em> &gt; <em>Bazza</em>. My brother is called Kerry, and many of his friends call him <em>Kezza</em>, showing the consonant change made by the <em>-a</em>. But one friend simply shortens the name and adds no <em>-a</em>, making <em>Ker</em>, showing no consonant change. The addition of a new final vowel is absolutely key.<br> <br> The other examples made from names without an <em>-r-</em> are likely consciously patterned on this, or made by those with no actual knowledge of the sound change involved. To somebody within a speech community where this happens, they know that <em>Paul</em> doesn't make <em>Pozza</em>, but an outsider doesn't understand why that is so and makes it anyway.<br> <br> *Why some sounds are weaker or stronger then others is complex, but search for "lenition" if you wish to know more.,2012:site.230026-3329286 Fri, 30 Nov 2012 12:47:41 -0800 Jehan By: stebulus I don't know if it's related, but in Old English there was a cluster of words with r/s alternation — I mean that these words had an "r" in a certain place in some forms, but an "s" in the same place in other forms (and the orthographic "s" would be pronounced [z] between vowels, I think). For example, in <a href="">the conjugation of <i>ċēosan</i> (to choose)</a>, some of the past tense forms have "r" where the present tense forms have "s". A similar verb is <i>forlēo<b>s</b>an</i> (to lose), past participle <i>forlo<b>r</b>en</i> (which is the origin of Modern English <i>forlorn</i>). Before you posted this question, the only example of r/s alternation I knew of in Modern English was the pair <i>was</i>/<i>were</i> (which come from Old English <i>wesan</i>: <i>iċ wæs</i>, <i>þū wǣre</i>); but maybe this Larry/Lazza thing is the same phenomenon... whatever that phenomenon is.<br> <br> Oh, I see Jehan already mentioned <i>was</i>/<i>were</i>.,2012:site.230026-3329636 Fri, 30 Nov 2012 20:51:05 -0800 stebulus