SUBSTITUTION: Tips, tricks and guidelines by N2

Discussion in 'Urine Testing' started by IamN2pot, Dec 23, 2003.

  1. IamN2pot

    IamN2pot Seasoned Activist

    SUBSTITUTION: Tips, tricks and guidelines by N2

    Invest a few bucks in a human digital thermometer. They are fast and accurate. I cannot over emphasize the importance of PRACTICE, PRACTICE, and PRACTICE!!! If you use condoms, be sure you use NON-lubricated condoms and rinse the condom to remove the powder from it. You can also use a well rinsed, 2 oz shampoo bottle (travel size). Now that you have your digital thermo and condoms/shampoo bottle, start practicing by filling your chosen container with 105 degree water. If using a condom, fold the loaded condom over the tip of the digital thermo to take its temp. If using a plastic bottle, place the tip of the thermometer directly into the water. Place the bottle/condom in your crotch. (Two pair of tighty whity’s holds it in place better and adds extra insulation to maintain the temp) In my experience, I find the water/pee container crotched inside your briefs, cools at a rate of about 1 degree every 2-3 minutes until it stabilizes at about 94-98 degrees. DO NOT plan on using toilet/bathroom water to cool it down. Most testing joints color their toilet water blue to foil using it, and if they hear you turn on the sink water or flush the john before you give them your sample, they may require you to re-submit or fail you. If your sample is to warm when you get it in the cup, simply swish it around in the cup while you blow on it. You can cool it at a rate of about 1 degree every 30 seconds, but don't over do it. PRACTICE! You can't re-warm it at that point. In the reverse, I find I can warm a substitute urine product from my pocket temp of 85-88 to 96-98 in about 20 minutes with body heat by crotching the container. The test cup temp strip is attached to the cup just like they are stuck to the side of a fish aquarium. The temp strip will read from 90-100 (some non-DOT require 94-100) so you can see your pee temp and cool it if necessary before you give it to the collector. One more tip. If you are using a condom, I don't tie the end of the condom. It is too risky in my humble opinion (IMHO) to try to puncture it to get your pee out. I take the condom with my 2+ ounces of pee in it and give it a spin, like you would a bread bag. Then double it over itself and use a wire tie (trash bag/bread bag type tie) with the ends rolled over them selves (to prevent puncture) and twist it tight to close the condom. To empty your condom, simply untwist the wire tie and let the condom untwist. Then place the open end of the condom in the cup and empty it. Check the temp on the side of the cup, and give it to the collector. Once again let me say PRACTICE. Practice carrying it in your crotch, practice emptying it into the cup, etc, just practice.

    Men: IMHO the best place/way to crotch and carry the 2oz shampoo bottle/condom is to place it between your scrotum and anus. If you have any question as to where this spot is, stand up with your feet shoulder width apart. Reach down with your hand and cup your testicals. Note where your bird and ring fingers are touching. That is where you want to carry the bottle. It this position I find you can carry on about your activities normally while maintaining a 94-95 degree sample temp. To raise the sample temp to 97-98, simply sit down and cross you legs so that the container is enclosed between your thighs. It about 10-15 minutes the sample will warm to body temp, 97-98.

    Women: You can of course carry a substitute sample the same as the men, but post by females write that it is also easy to carry the bottle inside your vaginal cavity, where it will maintain a 98 degree sample temp or you can use two 1oz bottles and place one under each breast, held in place with a well padded bra for added insulation in maintaining the temp.

    Please remember that these suggestions are just guidelines and may need to be slightly modified to suit your particular need and comfort. The key to successfully substituting is to PRACTICE.

    Attached is a picture of three 2oz shampoo bottles with a line showing 60ml and their capassity is written below. Cost was .59 - .99 cents each. Remember, some collection sites will refuse to accept a sample if it is not at least 60ml. Please, top it off, better a little extra than not enough.
  2. CheebaMonkey

    CheebaMonkey Sr. Member

    A note to those reading this

    Make sure you get a digital thermometer that doesn't make any noises, or turn off the sound on it.
  3. IamN2pot

    IamN2pot Seasoned Activist

    Yes, if you plan on checking the temp in the collection room with your digital before pouring it into the collection cup, Cheeba's suggestion could be a real life saver.
    Let me also add a line about human urine storage. Urine vendors generally recomend that the urine sample be submitted within 8 hours of warming it to room/body temp. However, it can be stored in an air tight container , frozen, for up to 1 year. Also, on the advice of vendors, you should never microwave human urine to thaw/warm it. Good tips for thawing/warming range from using warm to hot tap water, air activated hand and foot warmers, to a large hot cup/mug of coffee for a heating source.
    Hope that helps. N2
  4. theherbalist

    theherbalist New Member

    Thanks the tips IamN2pot. I just gave a pee test for a job and it came up dirty. After not smokeing for a f-ing month, exercising and drinking about a gallon of water a day, I still peed dirty. So im subing for my next job. I'm still not smoking but just in case right?

    I also thought about dunking it in coffee/hot water and temp testing it in the car on the way to the testing place. What do you all think>
  5. smoke20

    smoke20 New Member

    just read this like you said wish i would have read it earlier my husband took in some clean urine but the temp. only read 93 so they would not except it so he has to go back tomorrow he has taken some qcarbo and is going to take a home test to see do you think he would be safe trying to slip some more clean urine in instead of wasting all the money on the stuff that probably isn't going to work anyway
  6. IamN2pot

    IamN2pot Seasoned Activist

    THe best plan is to have the clean urine as plan A. Then, on the off chance that the test is observed, be diluted as plan B. a link to both are at the bottom of my post. If he is not observed, by all means, substitute the clean sample ... at an acceptable temp. What lab is the doing the test that would not accept a temp of 93? N2
  7. DubMusic4Life

    DubMusic4Life New Member

    does it matter if you use a substitute from the opposite sex? peace.
  8. IamN2pot

    IamN2pot Seasoned Activist

    Neither age or sex of the urine doner is relavent, only that it is drug free. N2
    2 people like this.
  9. Fang1111

    Fang1111 New Member

    Well rinsed shampoo bottle

    I have tried rinsing and boiling my bottle but can't get the shampoo smell out. If it smells there must be traces of shampoo in the bottle, right? Can this cause a problem? Any suggestions on how to clean the bottle so that no detectable trace of the shampoo remains?

  10. reefermadness1

    reefermadness1 New Member

    Try rubbing alcohol, could work.
    2 people like this.
  11. IamN2pot

    IamN2pot Seasoned Activist

    I've had the same problem. The fragrance will not effect the urine, but if you are loosing sleep over it, try a sulution with baking soda(the stuff to absorb refrigerator smells). Allow to sit overnight. Then rince again, throughly! The smell should be gone. Or the alcohol, as mentioned in the previous post will likly work also. N2
    2 people like this.
  12. B-radman

    B-radman New Member

    Freezing and re-freezing.

    I'm not quite sure on the exact day I have to test, so do you think it is a problem if I thaw the urine but then re-freeze it for later use? And how long can I leave it thawed before it goes stale and how many times can I do this?

  13. IamN2pot

    IamN2pot Seasoned Activist

    B, I'm not sure. I have thawed and refrozen a sample twice and it was still good. But beyond that, I just don't know. As for how long is it good, it should not be kept at room/body temp for more than 8 hours, according to urine vendors. That would be the total time at room/body temp, reguardless of the number of times it is frozen and thawed. N2
  14. phaze421

    phaze421 New Member

    If i freeze the piss overnight, how long would it take to warm up? Also, if someone pisses 2 hours before the test for me, would it be to cold?
  15. IamN2pot

    IamN2pot Seasoned Activist

    It takes about 5 minutes to warm a frozen sample in warm water. A sample will cool at a general rate of around 2 degree per minute. These time frames are will vary depending on temp of water, sample thickness, amount of insulation, and ambiant temp. PRACTICE to determine time frames for your individual sample and situation. N2
  16. resin8

    resin8 New Member

    This site is a life-saver. Screw the advice the guys at GNC give ya. Anyway, three questions about pre-screening:

    1) What is the target temperature for subbed urine?

    2) If I have a buddy pee in a cup an hour prior to the test, do I really need to worry about warming/cooling the specimin at all?

    3) If I pass a take-home test urine test, should I even bother trying to sub or dilute? (In other words are the take-home tests from longs just like the pre-employement screening tests?)

    Good lookin out ya'll.
    3 people like this.
  17. Colormepeachy

    Colormepeachy New Member

    thanks for all of this discussion

    I found this site because I am going to have to take a urine test for a job i recently got. I hate the idea of it, but the job offer came so soon I have NO clean urine. So i bought a synthetic urine and I was just wondering, in all of your opinions, what are my chances? I am SO nervous about it and if anyone has any tips I would love to hear them. I am planning on storing it in a travel shampoo container in my vaginal cavity. Are they allowed to watch me pee? if so I guess I'm screwed huh. I have heard that synthetic urine is a pretty good bet but what do you all think? Thanks a lot for this opportunity for real open discussion.
  18. IamN2pot

    IamN2pot Seasoned Activist

    Peachy, synthetic urine works like a charm. No worries there!!! Employment test are never observed. You will likly be ask to leave your purse, empty pockets and wash you hands. Told not to flush or run any water and perhaps told you have up to 4 minutes to 'perform'. You're shown to a bathroom, given the collection cup, told to fill it to about twice the amount needed, so don't worry about that. 2oz is ALL ANY lab requires, even if the collector wants 4-5 oz's, they'll just pour the extra into the toilet. You go into the bathroom, close the door and supply them with a sample in complete privacy. No one watches. If you are unconfortable with carrying the sample vaginally, try practicing carrying two, one oz samples, one under each breast. Read this link for more 'boob'stitution tips.
    Hope that helps. N2
  19. Colormepeachy

    Colormepeachy New Member

    thanks so much

    I go in to take the test in 20 minutes. God I am SOOOOOO nervous. Thanks for all of your help and advice. I'll let you know how it turns out!! Thanks again.
    Colormepeachy :)
  20. resin8

    resin8 New Member

    My friend took a pre-employment screening test for a pharmaceutical company (wyeth) and they had someone observe the test. I found that shocking. When I took a pre-emp screening test I wasn't observed. Nevertheless, I thought I'd let ya'll know that.

    Also, what is the target temp for subbed urine?

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