note TheDamian Hmmmmmm. Given that Larry and the rest of us worked very hard to design a syntax and semantics that specifically *improves* the maintainability of OO Perl code, we'd certainly appreciate feedback on those bits you feel will still be total nightmares to maintain. If nothing else, I'd like to get a handle on what people are troubled by in A12, so I can better address their concerns in E12. 345777 345999