Episode #43: Sobriety, Skin Care and Building a Successful Brand: An Interview with Esthetician Emme Diane

Listen to this episode 68 minutes


When Russ and Mika first started Good to Be Home, their goal was to share personal conversations in the hopes of helping others find balance in their lives.

Recently, they have decided to invite some special guests to join us on the podcast, and specifically people who have had a profound impact on their own quest for balance.

Emme Diane is a licensed esthetician with 20 years of professional experience and creator of the skincare line, Emme Diane. She specializes in advanced skin care treatments, skin coaching, and targeted products for seemingly-unsolvable skin issues, from acne to melsasma, aging, and everything in between.

Mika can personally attest to Emme’s treatments, as she is a longtime client as well as a daily user of Emme’s products.

Emme joins us this week to talk about why skin care is important, and what we can do to better take care of our skin. This episode isn’t just about skin care, though. Emme also shares her emotional story about her own journey through addiction, rehab, sobriety and eventually finding success as an entrepreneur.


In this episode, you will learn:

• How her career as an esthetician began and when she started her own business.
• When Emme’s addiction issues started and when she decided to seek help.
• How a passion for skin care has helped Emme remain sober for 18 years.
• Skin care tips for men and women.


Mentioned in this episode:
Russ Perry on Instagram
Mika Perry on Instagram
The Sober Entrepreneur by Russ Perry
The Russ Perry Show
Emme Diane
Emme Diane on Instagram
Emme Diane on Facebook




Russ Perry: I’m Russ Perry

Mika Perry: I’m Mika Perry, and you’re listening to Good To Be home.



Russ Perry: Hey everyone, welcome to another episode of Good To Be Home. I am your cohost Russ Perry.

Mika Perry: I am Mika Perry.

Russ Perry: Mika, today, it’s a very monumental day in the history of the Good To Be Home Podcast. Why is that?

Mika Perry: That’s correct. Today is our first interview. We are bringing someone into the studio to do an interview.

Russ Perry: Unlike all podcasts, interview podcast nowadays, are we jumping on a bandwagon?

Mika Perry: No. No, we are not. Intentionally, like when we first started out with this podcast, Good To Be Home, it was exactly what it’s been so far. A conversation-

Russ Perry: Just high quality amazingness.

Mika Perry: Yes. So as we’ve now gone through tens and tens of episodes, we realized, or I did, and I approached Russ with the idea to bring those who have had an impact personally in our lives. We didn’t want to bring on people who were just doing the promotional circuits, because as you listen to podcasts and you start to listen to podcasts that have similar themes, you will notice there are people going on podcasts all at the same time, because they are doing a book tour. That is fine and I love listening to those podcasts. That’s okay, but that is not the intent of the Good To Be Home Podcast. We are here to talk about real stories, real people, personal experiences. We believe that in sharing that just the simple act of sharing your story can bring hope and help, and can really serve other people.
I think it can be too much underestimated, the power of a personal story. So we also are intending to bring on some guests that have a specific expertise, that they have helped us with, that we have hit a limit perhaps in what we can share on that topic without getting into the unknown. We really want to make sure we give you true, accurate information and in order to do that, there are some topics, medical professional that we think an expert coming in and talking with us would be highly beneficial.

Russ Perry: Today’s guest is somewhat of a celebrity in my household. Her name is Emme Diane, and she is actually your-

Mika Perry: Esthetician.

Russ Perry: Esthetician. It’s a tough word. I wasn’t sure if I was going to say it right, that’s why I handed it over. I was so excited during this episode. To be completely honest, just real talk here. I wasn’t sure where the skin conversation episode, this is like our inaugural interview, and you want to talk about skin but it was like a science conversation. I was so drawn in, and to hear her powerful life story as well, which I’m not going to spoil it for anyone. Let that be part of the interview, was just so moving on where she has been, what she’s overcome and this crusher business she has now just doing way more than just taking care of skin.

Mika Perry: Exactly. I am so honored that Emme came to join us for our first interview. I have strategically had Emme be our first interview, because I scheduled all of the interviews that we’re doing the spring and into the summer. It’s because Emme and I while we meet once a month for my facial and chit chat, and over that we’ve become friends, and she’s just an easy person to talk to. She’s also extremely knowledgeable. She is kind, she is warm, she is passionate. Like you said, Russ, has that combination of an impactful business story, and expertise, and skill, but an incredible personal story that when she told me about it I was like, you’re going to be our first guest.

Russ Perry: All right, well we won’t hold the interview back any longer. Without further ado, here is Emme Diane.

Mika Perry: Emme, we just wanted to say welcome to the show.

Emme Diane: Thank you so much for having me. I’m super excited too. We have been greeting from ear to ear, huh?

Mika Perry: I know, I know.

Russ Perry: Right. I mean this is like you guys are like two birds, get to hang out. Emme, I hear about you all the time so it’s really nice to meet you as well, and thank you for your great work.

Emme Diane: Thank you. I appreciate that very much.

Russ Perry: I know this is an audio podcasts, but you do very good job with skin and all the tips, and you’ve even, your work is like we’ve been teaching our 13 year old daughter about stuff with that, and it’s been helpful. So it’s been really, really cool to finally meet the legendary Emme Diane.

Emme Diane: I don’t know about legendary.

Mika Perry: Yes, you are.

Russ Perry: You are. Well Emme said, that’s a common phrase in our household.

Mika Perry: He would be eating super greens and chlorophyll and I was like I can’t, can’t do that. So I would love to take this opportunity with this podcast episode today, to share what Emme knows about skin. We have a lot of women listeners, and so I know having you on here is a great opportunity for them to hear directly from you some skincare tips, what your line is all about, what they can expect from your products. Even Russ, when I started using her products, when he noticed like a month in that there was a difference, that’s huge for a husband to notice. So your products work, and so I definitely want to get into that today here on this episode. Before we do that, the important reason for you to be here today is to share your personal story. This is a story that I understand you haven’t really shared before publicly much, at least not on a podcast before. Is that correct?

Emme Diane: That’s correct.

Mika Perry: Okay.

Emme Diane: Yes.

Russ Perry: Well before we get there, let’s actually have Emme share a bit, like tell us about your business, where are you from? You’re from Arizona. You live here now, but you mentioned San Francisco, other cities. So give us like who is the real Emme Diane?

Emme Diane: Here we go. Okay, so well I’m actually from the Bay Area in California, born and raised. I did start my aesthetics career right out of high school. Well sort of high school that I suppose was part of my story, but I’m actually a high school dropout. I always had a passion for skincare from the very youngest age, I was 11 I think when it started being of interest to me because I have incredibly problematic skin. I’ve dealt with acne concerns, sensitive skin, I mean you name it. I just have the finicky skin that I know of. I remember from a very young age that with my first allowance, I snuck off to the corner market and got Noxzema and CoverGirl makeup. I mean even with my girlfriends growing up, when we’d have sleepovers, they would line up for me to do facials on.
One of my friend’s moms called me monkey. She’s like, you nit pick on everyone, just pick, pick, pick, pick, pick. I think I was born to do this. It’s something that I’ve just loved my whole life, and I love what I’ve learned that works for myself and others, and share that with everyone. So I think it’s just something that innately, I think I’m very lucky that I’ve always known what I wanted to do. To this day, this is my 20th year in my career, and I’m not bored one bit at all. In fact, it gets more and more interesting.

Mika Perry: Well that’s crazy because your skin looks like you’re 19. So to be doing this for 20 years, that’s-

Emme Diane: Girl, check us in the mail.

Russ Perry: That’s like, I mean that’s great advertising in a sense. I mean I look at a lot of professional services like digital, I’m not really checking out skincare services too often surprisingly, but people will reach out to me and be like, I can increase your Instagram following. Like let’s talk, and I look at their Instagram profile, and they have like 300 followers. So evidence of your profession and like Mika said, being able to practice what you preach I think is actually not very common in a lot of businesses. It’s something that is refreshing when you have someone who acts in integrity with what they are doing, and what the service that they’re providing.

Mika Perry: Yeah. So you’ve had this passion for skincare, and I can relate to that too in fifth grade having sleepovers and doing facials and masks. It’s something that I think is like a rite of passage for a woman. Not for everyone, but for many. Beauty and interest in skincare is like a part of growing up, and it’s super important. So you’ve had that passion in you and you went to school for it. When did you decide to make it a business and your own business? Did you go work somewhere else at a salon or a spa first, and then turn that into your business?

Emme Diane: Yeah, I actually did work for several fantastic businesses, and I’m so grateful for that experience that I had. I started out in a traditional spa experience where my goodness, the amount of information that they taught me as far as customer service and how to treat clients was immense. Then I did move on to more medical aesthetics, and also helped open up a MediSpa in Marin county, so north of the Golden Gate Bridge. That really taught me more of results driven treatments. So today, in my business which I actually started in 2012, I feel like I have the combination of the two where if you’ve ever worked with me or anybody on my team, we care about you as a person. So the customer service, knowing that I’m a real person is so huge, but also incredibly results driven. Like if it doesn’t work, what is the point.
I think what really sets us apart with skincare is that not only are the products, which I call my babies, they are results driven and give you a visible result, but the education backing the products is huge too. So I make sure that every client has an incredibly thorough consult. My dream is that I want to turn every single one of my clients into their own skin expert, so I’m always there for you but ultimately, you know the answers when you have trouble come up with your skin. You know what to do. So far that’s been fantastically working out really well, and it’s more than I could’ve hoped for. It’s just growing more and more, and we have an exciting year coming up.

Russ Perry: That to me is like, I’m not a consumer of a lot of skin services. Is it common to work, or to find products or services that don’t educate the customer, that have an ulterior motive in terms of what they’re selling or doing?

Mika Perry: Yeah, just from a consumer standpoint, I have tried and invested so much money in all types of products where the final touchpoint is the sale. They give you the product many times really expensive, and it promises you so much and then you’re left disappointed in it. I wouldn’t have called myself a product junkie. I did a lot of research and I would be selective about what I would pick, but there’s never been in my experience, even with estheticians that I’d go to for micro needling or peels, or treatments, it really stopped at the sale.

Emme Diane: I think too that the power of marketing, and I will be honest, I get really jealous of sometimes how I see that other companies are able to market their products because it’s like ingenious, but it’s also a lot of trickery too. Like you said, I mean there’s some buzz words or keywords that they catch you with, but I think the biggest thing too is that I think of it more from a recipe standpoint. So each product has an ingredient that works a certain way, and if I teach you with your particular skin condition how to utilize these ingredients, use them in the right way, it’ll produce this result. If you use them a different way, it produces a different result. So there’s ways that we can finagle it, so the education behind it is ultimately important. Whereas if you just go to Sephora or Nordstrom they’re like, “Yeah, use this.” There’s no real direction or guidance on how to really fit it in. So that makes a huge difference, and it’s really just that simple.

Mika Perry: I love that you don’t use buzzy ingredients, like hyped ingredients.

Russ Perry: What’s the most hyped ingredient right now? Like that’s like the next of [inaudible]. You roll your eyes and you see it, you’re just like come on.

Mika Perry: Go ahead, go for it.

Emme Diane: Niacinamide, which is an ingredient that has been around forever, but as of late, I’m definitely seeing it more in commercials as this new thing. We do have it in our clarifying serum. We’ve had it there for a long time. It’s a fantastic ingredient, but it’s definitely like the new hyaluronic acid, which also has been around forever and naturally occurs in your own body too.

Mika Perry: Like from the beginning of time.

Emme Diane: But marketing, it’s amazing.

Mika Perry: It really is. When I share about you to friends and people I know, or people I don’t even know, I describe you as almost a scientist. You mentioned the recipes and ingredients right now, you have such a deep knowledge of ingredients. Did you get that from school, or did you do your own research just because of your passion?

Emme Diane: Well, I don’t like knocking beauty school, but I didn’t really learn anything that I utilized today in school other than how to make sure my clients are safe from bacteria, or injury, or something. When I worked in the other medical and spa, I was always known to super cherry pick regiments for people like different lines, because this company did this the best because they utilized this ingredient the best way. This company did this the best, and when I decided to go out and formulate my own line, I wanted the best of the best. I wasn’t going to skimp and I certainly have not, because I actually use 12 different labs to formulate my skincare line, which is a total pain in the butt, but I’m not willing to skimp on the raw material just to cut corners and make my life easier. So picking the ingredients is super important.
I think one thing that most women find really interesting is that take for example like retinol, or vitamin C, which are pretty buzz worthy. Most people don’t realize that there are so many different forms of this generic term, just like if I told you to go to the grocery store and get lettuce. You get there and you’re like, well what kind? Butter lettuce, romaine lettuce, like I have no idea. The actual ingredient, the raw material ingredient you choose can make or break a whole system, so we can’t skimp. Best of the best.

Mika Perry: Can’t skimp. Well I know you don’t, in the results. You just see the results so immediately. So there is a difference in how you’re putting these ingredients together, and using the best of the best.

Emme Diane: Thanks.

Russ Perry: When you were going out there, I had a brief stint in supplement manufacturing. It was a feel business.

Mika Perry: Yeah, one of the many.

Russ Perry: Multivitamins for nurses. Let’s just say it wasn’t a genius idea, but I found it to be really challenging to find product manufacturers that were well A, reliable and communicated like a normal human being, but also that we’re willing to have transparency in like product origin for the different pieces. What’s the environment now? Like is it getting easier or is it still an uphill battle to ensure that your components that you’re building, and using for your products are of the quality that you expect?

Emme Diane: Gosh, I would say that’s hit or miss. I will tell you we definitely have our problem child lab right now that we’re working on a solution for. I would say that it’s definitely hit or miss, and I’m trying to hone down and only work with the labs that have the same thought process as me. They hit the same quality vision, so we’re working on bringing that down, but the amount of hours and dead ends and everything, especially when I started out. I mean I wanted to give up all the time. It was just maddening how I felt like I even got to the end of formulating a product, and then the lab would turn around and say, “Yeah, but we can’t do that though.” I’m like ugh. So I definitely can relate to that for sure. It’s gotten easier just because I’ve been in the thick of it now, but in the beginning, my goodness, it was the hardest thing I’ve ever done.

Russ Perry: What happened when you would be told no? Would you just have to come up with a new solution, or they fight back and make them figure out a solution?

Emme Diane: Well, I suppose if I were in a different spot, I would have had the money to maybe push through, but I’ve never taken out a loan on my business. We’ve just formulated as we’ve had the capital to do. So in those instances, I just had to go another direction. So it’s like stop everything, start over but in the end I’m glad that we did. There’s usually a reason why these things happen, and you just have to roll with it. That’s one of the biggest lessons I’ve learned in business, is I think it’s really tempered me because I’m such a huge perfectionist in a lot of ways. Also, I don’t want to say control freak, but I think in certain ways definitely and having to let go and roll with it, and also not let it be so black and white but there’s that gray area and everything is figureoutable too. That’s the biggest thing is like it’s not the end of the world and everything halts now. It’s like no you another path.

Mika Perry: So true. I love that. Well speaking of paths, I wanted to talk about some of the paths that we have been on that are similar, and you too Russ. So we love being transparent on here, and super candid and how this podcast episode came to be I want to share with the listeners is that one day, I was in for a facial with Emme. I’m so lucky that you are here local to us, but you have clients around the world. So I go and see you once a month. In one of our facial appointments, we were talking about, I’ve shared with you my story of sobriety for new listeners here. Both Russ and I are sober. We don’t drink. That is part of our lives now. So Emme being such a big open hearted, kind person, she’s easy to talk to, and also when you’re sitting there for an hour together, you get to know each other pretty quickly.

Russ Perry: You figure out that skill set of communication.

Mika Perry: You sure do. I bet you do, Emme. So anyway, I had been sharing with her that I was sober, and why I chose to, and the benefits and just how good life was. You almost, not a bad bomb but dropped this big bomb on me almost that you also are sober. I just have to tell you, Emme, for someone who is in that path and in that lifestyle choice, it is so reassuring when someone tells you that, because sometimes you can feel alone in that and you can feel lonely. Especially when you hear from someone you’re not expecting to hear it from, it’s really surprising in a really nice way. You were so kind that you said if I could be on your podcast, or share my story or help someone through my story like how you guys have, I’d be totally down for that. I just so appreciated that. So that is what brought us here together today.
I wanted to give you an opportunity here to share that part of your life story, because I think it is going to be so helpful to those that are just meeting and hearing you for the first time today, and also those that have known you for a while, either as a friend or a client to hear this. Just so you know, it has been so beneficial for us to share our story. It gives so many people hope, and it has also relieved us of burdens as well and has helped us grow, to be more open and transparent. So I’d love for you to take us on a story of your sobriety. How it started and then we can discuss the benefits, and struggles even that you’ve had throughout that.

Emme Diane: Absolutely. Well, yeah, it’s definitely funny when I do tell people. I share about my sobriety with people when it comes up, and maybe they’re sharing with me something that they’re struggling with or whatever. I love that look on their faces when I tell them, especially nowadays, but I do feel like I have lived two lives. It’s kind of crazy. On December 28th, I celebrated 18 years of sobriety which is shocking to me. I don’t know that I’ve done anything for 18 years other than skincare and breathe every day. So I’m not sure, but yeah I got sober at a very young age. I unfortunately grew up in a household with two parents who were in the disease. My mom was an alcoholic and was addicted to prescription drugs. My Dad is an alcoholic and interestingly enough, my mom got sober when I was about 11.
I ended up going to all of the meetings with her at the hospital. I learned all about the disease, what to look for, the family aspects, dah, dah, dah. I was like an expert on it. Fortunately, my mom stayed sober the rest of her life, which was amazing. However, it was about that time that I started getting into the disease myself and I didn’t even recognize it, and it got really bad there. I went to a lot of really dark places, did a lot of things I never thought that I would do. Hardly recognized myself. In the end, I actually wound up in a hospital in Las Vegas. I don’t know why I was in Vegas or who I was with, but was on my death bed basically.

Russ Perry: How old were you?

Emme Diane: I was 20 then. I basically had this moment of clarity that you hear about sometimes were sitting in the hospital bed, it hit me like a ton of bricks that all of these people that I used to look at it and think they’re degenerates, they’re drunks, they’re addicts, they’re junkies. It hit me that oh my God, that’s me. I knew that if I didn’t make a change, I was going to die. I know my story’s a little extreme, and I’ll share this. Unfortunately just with such a hard childhood, there were moments where I did try to commit suicide, and had to go to the psych unit where they put me on a 72 hour hold.
At that moment, I knew that if I threatened to kill myself, they would have to hold me. I did that even though I didn’t want to kill myself, I just didn’t trust myself. I was afraid that when they released me, it would just be the end. So while I was in the psych unit there, the director of a rehab came to chat with me and fortunately I got placed into an inpatient program, and that was great. Well-

Russ Perry: I know a lot of people may not know what an inpatient program is. Can you describe what that is?

Emme Diane: That’s like, mine was at a hospital, it’s like you stay there 24/7 for about, usually it’s about 30 days. Can be more, can be less. It’s just really, really deep intensive therapy meetings, really working hard on yourself. I just a minute ago said it was great. Well no, probably wasn’t great, but was hard and uncomfortable and you had to do the work. Unfortunately, I did get kicked out. I like to call it unsober behavior. I didn’t drink or use but me and one of the other patients, who was married were carrying on and his wife found out. So we both got kicked out and fortunately and unfortunately, one of my character assets is that I’m so stubborn that my attitude at that time was F you guys, I’m going to do this and I’m going to prove to you I don’t need you. So I did, and I moved into-

Russ Perry: Here you are, yes. It says.

Emme Diane: So I did move into a sober living home at that point for the next 14 months, because first I had nowhere to go. At that point I was homeless. I had left the boyfriend that I was with, and had to change everything and went to a lot of meetings then and everything. That was the beginning of my journey.

Mika Perry: At that point you were committed to your sobriety, or did you still have struggles with feeling like you would relapse or?

Russ Perry: You’re missing out at such a young age?

Emme Diane: Good question. So I don’t ever recall ever struggling with it, like I’m not committed to this. I think it was always, I was so scared that I knew that I would die if I relapsed. Also, the pride and shame that I would have to, I mean if the drugs and alcohol didn’t kill me, I’d probably have done myself in to be honest. Of course, it was really, really, really hard, but I think I had it ingrained in me enough at that point that I knew if I was struggling, I go to a meeting right away. I’d call somebody that is in my sobriety support group. I knew that I had to tell on myself. I almost became like the over sharer, if that makes sense. I knew if I kept it inside me that it would be detrimental. So I learned all of these skills I think in the beginning, which I think were super helpful is showing up even when you don’t want to. Making sure that you tell on yourself, and being honest with people about what’s really going on with you in a safe space of course.
Definitely being so young, like I said, I had to change everything about my life in a way. I had to change my friend group, I had to change where I lived, and I couldn’t be with that boyfriend anymore. There were definitely times where I felt like I was missing out and even through my 20s and everything in the sense of like, I have never had a Cosmo. I have never had a lemon drop. I’ve never been to a winery. I don’t even really know what wine tastes like except for like White Beringer. I mean I drank to get drunk. Anything that got me super drunk, super fast, super cheap, I was down for.

Russ Perry: You’re the connoisseur of plastic bottle vodka then.

Emme Diane: 100%. Yes, totally. I was really lucky that I got clued into a support system, and team where I did create those connections with people who became my new friend group, and we did things together.

Russ Perry: So have a question Emme, for you with the support group. We were talking about this, you and I both gone to alcoholics anonymous and you’ve been to other programs. Why was it so critical for you to find that community at first? I know for me when I was going through this, it was later in life when I was almost 30, and Mika, we were married. We had kids and I was really ashamed and embarrassed by it truthfully.

Emme Diane: Going to meetings?

Russ Perry: Yeah. How did that association change your perspective of challenges that you were having versus, when you were going through it alone?

Emme Diane: I never really did go through it alone. I think having gone into inpatient program at the hospital, you have to be around the other people that are there. You have to go to meetings while you’re there, so that’s when I went to my first meeting. I definitely, even to this day, I’m an introvert big time, loving this situation. Like two on one, this is great but if I were to be invited to a party or if I had to go to a new meeting somewhere, I was like, Oh God, the anxiety that I have. So that was definitely uncomfortable, but I knew that I had to push through. Sometimes I would contact somebody else and say, “Hey, will you go with me?” I tried to use the resources around me just to make it more comfortable and before you knew it, it’s like it became your second family. Maybe you can relate to like if you go to a gym, and you see the same people every day. Regardless of how much you talk with them, it’s like it’s a familiar face. I’m at home.

Mika Perry: So Emme, you mentioned being an introvert. I remember one of my first appointments with you, you asked, “So what do you think I am?” We were talking about extroversion, introversion. I was like introvert, but the thing is we’re both talkative, and I think we share that. I’m an extroverted introvert, so I don’t have a problem talking to people, and I do enjoy that of course, but I can understand that discomfort level sometimes and wanting to just be alone and be comfortable. That’s what you’re comfortable with just by nature. For me, when I would reach for wine, or in a social situation wanting to drink, a lot of that stems from uncomfort.
So drinking or using, or any of those other almost could lead to destructive habits, or behavior that stems from avoidance of pain, avoidance of discomfort. Did you have any of that, especially at the beginning as you started? You had the example of your parents as what not to do, yet that’s the path that you went along. Can you shed light on maybe some triggers, or were you trying to avoid anything? Was there something hard for you?

Emme Diane: Well, I think like for most people who are alcoholics or addicts, we’re trying to numb something out. Definitely my childhood was not probably the most ideal, and so definitely the way that I was molded as a child, and the experiences that I had, I think some of them I was trying to avoid or numb out. Also, unfortunately the relationship, I think where I had with my dad definitely groomed the path of the men that I chose. I definitely tried to numb out pain too by using outside sources too, like for a while men, or shopping, food. We have talked about this before, working out and even I would say work. Some of these things that I would use to numb out were healthier to an extent, unless you take it too far.
Some were not healthy and I had to recover from those things too. Like I was really, really, really good at picking unavailable men. Any type of unavailable. Geographically, emotionally, physically, I mean you name it. That was my emo, and I had to learn how to recover from that. I’m very, very lucky today that I finally found the one. I turned 40 in January, and I’ll be getting married for the first time in August.

Russ Perry: Congratulations.

Emme Diane: Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I held out for a good one.

Mika Perry: Yeah, worth it.

Emme Diane: Yes, but back when I was newly sober, I feel like almost anything would trigger or set me off. TV shows, hearing about what friends were doing. Luckily social media wasn’t around then. It wasn’t like I would pop on Facebook and see what people were doing. I remember even when I was newly sober for some reason, I was at my mom’s house and she lived in an apartment. I went to the laundry room area that was at the complex to do some laundry, and I go in there and it smelled like pot. So strong. People were smoking pot in there, and I ran out of their freaking out thinking I relapsed and was just terrified. It was random things that would really try to trigger me, and then just almost nothing, but I do know that there were nights where you just are holding on white knuckling, just trying to get through the night without getting a drink or a drug.
I think too that, and especially today when people ask me about being triggered, I don’t feel triggered. I think that my thought process around it, or the only way I can explain it is like if somebody said, “Do you want to take some arsenic?” If someone offered me a drink, it would be like taking arsenic. I’d die, so it’s just not something I think about. I did just get back from my bachelorette trip in Cabo, where of course my girlfriend’s drank and it doesn’t bother me, but today it’s like if drinking and partying and stuff like that is all about letting loose and having fun, why can’t I do that sober and I do. I just, sometimes I’m in my work mode where I’m really serious and focused, and I can certainly jump out into my funny, weird, wacky, awkward, awesome dance moves.

Russ Perry: Which we’ll get to at the end of the podcast.

Mika Perry: Well I’ve heard about your dance moves.

Russ Perry: Fantastic. We actually have a lot of retargeting ads for Design Pickle of me dancing in Pickle costume.

Emme Diane: Amazing.

Mika Perry: Do they do well?

Russ Perry: I am the highest performing ad.

Emme Diane: No way, of you dancing?

Russ Perry: Yeah, it’s multiple.

Emme Diane: There you go.

Mika Perry: Amazing.

Russ Perry: So Emme, we all at this table are entrepreneurs and business owners and I know not everyone listening is, but how has having a business to pour your energy into either helped your path of sobriety, accelerated it, or maybe been a challenge either way?

Emme Diane: Well, first and foremost, knowing other people who have gotten sober and in different industries, there’s a lot of entertaining, or taking clients out or things like that that they would struggle with. Fortunately for me, I’ve been in health and wellness basically my whole career, so that hasn’t ever been a challenge as far as my career. I would say my personality type is that I’m either all in, or I’m all out. So even when I worked at other places like the Medical Spa or whatever, they would always turn to me to lead the team. I would create new protocols for treatment. So they would love how I would manipulate something to make it better. When I started my business, I loved that freedom that I was able to just run with it and do what I thought was best.
Definitely the amount of hours that I spent working is a lot, but it was channeling that good energy into something that I was creating that I could be proud of. I would imagine on many levels, it definitely has helped me a lot. I think that it’s great to be an entrepreneur, but if that’s not your path and you are sober, I think really harnessing that energy into the work that you do do, or even a hobby that you have, your family. Finding a way for you to become the best of something I think is important, because there’s definitely a lot of extra time when you aren’t drinking or hung over. What do you do?

Mika Perry: Yeah, and Russ’s book, I don’t want to promote the book or anything.

Russ Perry: Feel free to promote it. The Sober Entrepreneur.

Mika Perry: One thing that I didn’t really think about until he wrote that book and I read it, is he did the math of how much time you waste drinking and recovering from drinking, that you can then apply to your own growth instead. Whether it’s your own, your business, your family. You have so much more time. It is crazy.

Russ Perry: It was a highly scientific grid of on the top axis, it was the level of partying. So light, medium, heavy. Heavy been like blow out Vegas, where am I, wake up in Clark County jail. That might have happened to me before.

Mika Perry: Which I may or may not have bailed him out of.

Russ Perry: Then light is like a happy hour, and then the three preparation for the event. The event and recovery for the event. You could see, I mean and just like real casual, I mean I had a lot of years of drinking to pull data from, but it was truly like even with just going to happy hour once a week, you’re looking at four or five hours total of time before driving and getting there in the event, and then recovery. The argument was what if you took this time and actually created with it? It’s like months of your life, a year back of actual space just to do something with. To your point where I think it’s not being an entrepreneur or not be an entrepreneur, it’s having an outlet for it because if you don’t consciously choose an outlet, something will find its place. Whether it’s a habit that becomes unhealthy or another addiction.

Emme Diane: Very true. Yeah. Absolutely.

Russ Perry: Now, as you’re going along this journey and getting back to the entrepreneur conversation, where do you think that this sober identity took a second place to your current company and brand, or has it always been part of who you think you are?

Emme Diane: I think internally and with myself, it’s always been who I am. At this point it’s been so long, I’d sort of just, like I have a stomach just like I’m sober. Actually I would think, I was telling Mika one time that when I tell people how long I’ve been sober they’re like, “Wow, that’s so amazing. You should be so proud.” I’m like, “Well, I guess at this point it’s almost like me saying congratulations on breathing air for your whole life.” Of course, I am proud of it but it’s not something that I really focus on as far as it being front and center in my life. It’s just a known and anyone who knows me personally, like on a friend level knows this about me. There’s no secret about it whatsoever. However, with my business, I guess it only comes up if it needs to.
I’ve certainly had over the years a lot of clients who come in, they share a lot of their lives with me. I hear everything really grateful that they trust me with their deep dark secrets and stuff, but I will definitely open up and share with them about my journey with sobriety as a late, my mom passed away a couple years ago. So now I have information to share with people who might be going through that. I think it’s just one of those life things that we do that when somebody shares something that they’re going through, if you have experience or you’ve been through it, I share openly about it. As far as the company, like are you going to see on my website that I’m sober? No. I mean it’s not very relevant.

Russ Perry: Does sobriety help your skin?

Emme Diane: Oh my gosh. Yes.

Russ Perry: To bring the worlds back together here on these topics.

Emme Diane: Yeah, and I don’t want to make people feel bad if they drink a glass of wine at night. I suppose there’s health benefits to it, but I think that the detriment that happens to your body outweighs those unfortunately. I think evidences and people that drink and don’t drink and what their skin looks like, but it is a poison you’re putting in your body. So it has to filter that out. It is incredibly dehydrating to the body and your skin. A lot of times too what’s in it can really flush or irritate the skin majorly.

Russ Perry: Like fireball.

Emme Diane: Yes, or like if say someone has like Rosacea. Red wine will flare them up. If you have a yeast or gluten allergy, beer will just be your enemy. Sometimes clients will ask me this if alcohol’s bad. I tell them well, if you have a drinking problem, it’s not the best thing, but it’s not the worst thing. I said the only thing I worry about if you are drinking is did you get your skin routine done that night? I have had clients who tell me, they’re like, “Yeah, I was so drunk that my husband did my skin routine for me.” Or, “Oh my God, I was so drunk that my friend held my head while I was washing my face, because the world was spinning.” I’m like, “Okay. Proud of you.”

Russ Perry: They did the routine, but they’re committed.

Emme Diane: Yes, I’m like, “I don’t know what to say. Like good job?”

Russ Perry: Mika, I remember when you were exploring your own journey, because I never was hard about it with Mika. When I chose to stop drinking, I was like she’s on her own path. I feel like Emme, you and shared our, like we’re similar drinkers versus Mika, which was more like casual, like have a couple of drinks here. I vividly remember Mika, you coming to me one night and you were like, “Russ did you know alcohol is a poison? It’s so bad putting this poison inside of you. All these women are trying to feel better and look better, and they’re drinking. It was like this they’re drinking wine and they’re putting this in their body. It’s working against them.” It was like discovering America or something.

Mika Perry: Well, I shared this in an episode we did on how I stay sober, and also my sobriety journey that we shared earlier on in this podcast.

Russ Perry: Which you can find at

Mika Perry: That’s right. What I realized because I had moments, I eventually had the moment of clarity like you both have had in deciding this is not the right path for me anymore. I can not keep going down this road in the same actions. For me, I had many moments of clarity throughout. So it was like this nagging thing in the back of my mind that this was not good for me and my goals. What I did is I assessed, I said, okay I’m sleeping poorly. Okay, alcohol doesn’t help that, but I was using it to try to help to sleep better. I had anxiety, I was trying to calm down that anxiety with alcohol. That wasn’t helping. I was trying to work out, but then I’d meal prep and do my macros and then I would drink wine. I was trying to lose weight, that’s sugar. I was trying to be more present for myself and for my family. Alcohol numbs your reaction.
It was doing all these things that I realized I was working so hard at to achieve, and this was one huge roadblock for me and there was a lot of fear and removing that roadblock. I’ve learned as I’ve shared the story that a lot of women have that fear. Some have made the choice to also be sober, and they’ve shared that with me, and it’s so great to hear, but here are a lot of fear in making that step because they’re worried about the other side. What is that going to look like? One is, I’ve heard many times like I get discluded, or I’m worried about what my friends will think, or what people will say about me. I’m afraid of what consequences I’m going to have for making this decision. It doesn’t have to be a rock bottom go to jail kind of thing, but just making that conscious choice.
Have you experienced any of that? What would be your advice for someone who is fearful of making that? Say you had a client, maybe you have privately consulted in a way through your facials, but what would you say to someone trying to make that decision for themselves? We don’t want to tell anyone that’s their decision to make, but do you have any advice for them?

Emme Diane: For me, my experience and what I think is really true is that the only people that are going to have a huge problem with whether or not you drink when you guys go out, are the people who might have a problem themselves because otherwise, why would they care so much? Unless it’s a mirror up to them. In my social life too, I always worried about dating because when I dated, how do I explain to somebody I just met that I don’t drink or whatever. It was more of a big worry in my mind than it actually ended up being an issue. There was only one time where I went on a date, and he wanted to order a bottle of wine. I said, “I don’t drink.” He just got up and left. He’s like, “This won’t work then,” and left and I’m like okay.
In all honesty, I think that if you just share honestly with people, where you’re at, they usually don’t have a problem with it. When I go out to social events or whatnot, I’ll always get like a mocktail or just sparkling water or whatnot. When I lived in San Francisco, one of my best friends there owned a bar. When I would go in there, she would always make me, she coined it the Emme politan. I think you shared it before, or I shared it before.

Mika Perry: You told me about it, yes.

Emme Diane: Yeah. It’s blueberry and crushed basil with club soda and simple syrup. It’s ridiculous, it’s so good. I found ways to fit in even when it was a little bit different, but I do think that there were times too that I was excluded and that can be very uncomfortable. The more that you share with people in a safe way that you’re sober, I think you’ll be amazed at how many people around you are on the same wavelength. Maybe they do drink, but they don’t drink that much. Like they don’t mind going to dinner and not drinking, or they don’t mind going out to social events and not drinking. I know that that was something that you shared with me that you’re amazed how many people around you were on the same wavelength. You just never know, but that can definitely be a huge struggle. My experience though in the end is that it was a bigger deal in my head than it has ever been in real life.

Russ Perry: I think that’s why also having another thing to pour your energy into is really important, because truthfully I don’t mind not going out with the buddies to, I don’t even have really many buddies that go out anymore, but back in the day, like when I’m building Design Pickle businesses, staying in on a Friday night and hanging with the family and then being up late brainstorming and working and creating, is way more exciting than sitting around as conversation start to degrade as everyone gets drunker. For those groups of friends that are excluding me from their activities, I’ve attempted. Like I went on a bachelor party sober and it wasn’t like hey, let’s have casually have a few beers in Mexico. It was guys getting raging hard in Austin.
I was there for like 24 hours. I was like, “I got to go, this is so boring.” It’d be like 9:00 at night and just everyone’s asleep, and like this is terrible. So you don’t miss anything from those folks who still entertain that kind of lifestyle, because even if you were there, you’d be bored out of your mind. It’s not an enjoyable activity you’re missing out on.

Mika Perry: I think we can all agree that it isn’t as bad as you think. Like you said, Emme, I love that, it’s all in your head.

Emme Diane: It is.

Mika Perry: It is, and that’s hard to get through. That is really hard.

Emme Diane: On the same note of what you just said and how you said that you left, there’s been many situations where I’ll go and knowing that people will be drinking, and then at a certain point I’ll excuse myself. Almost when it gets to that tipping point where it’s like I can’t even relate to you anymore, I can’t even have a conversation with you anymore because you’re so far gone, I’ll excuse myself and go home. I think too that when you were talking about pouring yourself into something else, the reason that most alcoholics drink and stuff like that is to numb out, to cover up something. If you’re working on something that you can be proud of and that makes you feel good and accomplished and stuff, it’s almost like it overrides that experience. Not to say that, I feel like I’ve accomplished a lot in my life, but definitely there’s those undertones of the I’m not good enough still that come up definitely. Here’s an interesting one. The whole people are going to find out I’m a fraud type of thing.

Russ Perry: Imposter syndrome.

Mika Perry: Imposter syndrome, yeah.

Emme Diane: I have that so bad. It’s funny because these things will pop up every now and then, and it’s interesting and having my own business where these actually show up more and more, or even trusting myself. They amplify, and you really have to work through them, but those are all things that I think become amplified when you get sober. So by having something to pour yourself into that you build your self esteem from, can really help a lot.

Mika Perry: Totally.

Russ Perry: Ladies, if you don’t mind, I’d like to bring this back to skin. Is that okay? Can we shift to that?

Mika Perry: It’s totally fine.

Russ Perry: I have a burning question.

Mika Perry: Okay.

Emme Diane: Sure.

Russ Perry: What should men know about skin that they don’t, that’s not being talked about? I don’t feel like I hear any conversation about that. Is it just the same stuff, or is there differences between men and women with what they should be doing?

Emme Diane: The truth of the matter is that skin is skin, is skin, is skin. However, of course there’s different skin types, there’s different skin conditions. That’s where the variables come into play, but men’s skin should be treated fairly similarly to women’s skin. In fact, Kirk’s been pressing hard for us to launch a men’s skincare line, but I’m like well it’s just the same exact thing except we round it and we won’t do that if we do a skin line for men. The laws of how the skin acts are the same.

Russ Perry: What’s like 101? I’m 36, I use lotion I find on airplanes. That’s about the extent of my skincare. Where is the guy, because we do have a lot of guys that listen and I want to give them some value too. What’s the one thing that if you’re like only do this, or you can do a couple things, what would it be? Where do they start?

Emme Diane: That’s a good question. I do have a lot of male clients come in and generally like they’re the husbands’ my clients that I have. I know that it can be a lot for a guy to start a regimen, but I think the thing is being consistent with something. The basics would always be cleanse, moisturize, sunscreen. I think the biggest thing that guys forego is sunscreen on a daily basis, just because most men don’t like something on their face. They don’t like the feeling of something on their face, but like our Tinted Mineral Sunscreen actually is a favorite among the men because it’s not a greasy feeling sunscreen. They like the chemo effect that the tint gives, but I think that just starting slow with just make sure every morning you cleanse, moisturize, sunscreen. Then at nighttime cleanse and moisturize, and then we can baby step it up from there.

Mika Perry: I love baby steps.

Russ Perry: I do like 28 more steps, plus those three.

Emme Diane: Yeah, basically. Yes.

Mika Perry: That’s why when we’re at our vanities in our bathroom, you’re in and out, and I’m still there.

Russ Perry: Well, I like have my toothpaste.

Mika Perry: Yeah, but I will say a couple things. One is that like the other day, Russ, you were so proud. He came to me, he’s like, I’ve been washing my face. I was like, “That’s so good, honey. Good job. What are you using mine?” I got like don’t touch my stuff, don’t touch my gentle cleanser by Emme Diane. He’s like, “Well, just this stuff right here,” and it’s the hand soap. I was like, okay, but I didn’t want to say anything. I was like, “Good job that you are cleansing.” Even though it might be-

Russ Perry: It’s like Page coming with like I made you a painting, but she wrote all over the wall. Do you know what it’s like?

Mika Perry: That’s exactly what it felt like, but even with all those steps, like I do more than just cleanse, moisturize and sunscreen, your regimen is so simple. I love that it matches, I love having a set that’s all one. It all goes together. Before I would just piece meal my skincare together, and yours really makes sense. You’re very specific in your instructions with your clients. Can you walk us through just your general skincare line, what a typical client would use?

Emme Diane: Good question, and yes, Russ. Actually I have lots of teen clients who do have to do a full regimen, and I swear if they can do it, anyone can.

Russ Perry: Okay, thank you.

Emme Diane: Yes. I promise you, you can do this.

Russ Perry: I just walked down flossing a few years ago every night, so I’m still working on it.

Emme Diane: Okay, baby stepping up. So when I think of skincare, I think of it in five steps. So there’s cleansing, and cleansing would include toners or possibly a scrub. So cleansing is super important obviously tone the skin.

Russ Perry: Is toner like what stings your skin?

Emme Diane: Well, traditionally, yes, but none of our toners have alcohol in them, so they’re actually quite the opposite. They’re very hydrating, very calming to the skin. Traditionally, you’re thinking of like Sea Breeze or whatever, you know?

Mika Perry: Yes, the Anstrigent.

Emme Diane: Totally, yeah. No, no, no, no, no. That’s super bad for the skin.

Mika Perry: So alcohol is bad to ingest and put on your skin.

Emme Diane: Yes-ish. Well, I’ll take that a step further. There are actually certain alcohols that do have a hydrating effect, but that goes back to raw material and how there’s multiple names for ingredients, but yes, if it’s a toner that’s drying or stripping to the skin, walk away. So cleansing, very important. Next would be moisturizing and that’s going to be from two standpoints. That’s going to be from a water moisture standpoint where we infuse humectants into the skin, and humectants are a molecule that can attract a thousand times of water moisture to themselves. So like a buzz worthy one right now is that hyaluronic acid. Everyone’s hearing about that. Also, from an oil moisture standpoint, so even if you’re oily, you do need to have a moisturizer to help balance out the oil glands, because what happens is that if the skin starts to feel dry, it will throw your oil glands into overdrive to compensating. You’ll become extra oily. So this helps to balance the skin.
Obviously sun protection is super important, so that would be number three. Then we get into the nitty gritty, like let’s change the skin. So number four would be preventative. So what are we doing to prevent concerns on the skin? This can be a couple different steps. Mostly I think of it as topical vitamin C on the skin, like our antioxidant serum that prevents sun damage from forming. It helps strengthen capillary walls. It’s like food for the skin. I call it the insurance product on the skin. Then we have treatment products, and these are the ones that make visible change to the skin. So this is going to be like your retinols. For us like the clarifying serum. If you’re acne prone, acne eraser that kills acne bacteria. These are the things that make cellular change, and will make actual visible change to the skin. So when you incorporate those five elements into a skincare routine, it’s complete. You’ve hit like all the basis.

Russ Perry: Wow. We have doctors who listen to this, so I’m sure they’re geeking out right now.

Mika Perry: I love science too, so I’ve learned so much from you just sitting there and asking questions, and you’ve told me so many things. We have a lot of listeners that may already be clients, but many probably that aren’t. So I think it’s so fascinating how you have your acne bible and your melasma guide. Those are, would you say the top two problems that you’re solving if they’re coming to you? Not from a preventative standpoint, but a problem.

Emme Diane: Absolutely. Definitely acne and I think I have a larger following with that just because I personally still struggle with acne problems at 40, although people don’t think it because-

Mika Perry: No you never know.

Emme Diane: The products work. Yay, thank God. Definitely acne, rosacea. I will tell you guys something, what I’ve been working on this week. We’re going to release our graceful aging guide, and we are updating the melasma manual too. On the flip side will also be the hyperpigmentation handbook, and there will also be a sensitive skin something. We haven’t found the word for it yet. So get ready. We’re about to launch all of these new tools. If you are an existing client, hi. If you’re not and you want to find out all about what we do, there is actually a consultation form online. All of my email consults are complimentary, which many people have told me you shouldn’t do it for free. I’m like, “No, I want everyone to be armed and dangerous.” So literally if you fill out that consult form and send me pictures of your skin, I will single handedly troubleshoot your skin and send back my recommendations.

Mika Perry: I will vouch for that, because how we got started is we have the same lash person, Marcel and she’s like Mika, she’s in my face all the time. She’s like, “You just need to go see Emmy,” because I would complain about my melasma as what I originally was just really self conscious about. So I one day saw your Pumpkin Enzyme Mask on Instagram. Even though Marcel had been telling me to go see you, that was what made me make the next move, the step. So I took pictures, like selfies makeup less face. I’ve had a lot of people say that that’s scary to do. I was like oh my gosh, Emme is nice one, she’s not going to judge you, she’s seen everything. So take pictures of my face, email that.
Then the next day I was at Michael Shopping, and I get a phone call and I thankfully answer and it was you. I was like, “Hi.” We stepped out and you were so kind and generous in walking me through all my questions, and answered and addressed some of the parts of the questionnaire that I sent along with those photos. So that’s how the consult process works. I just wanted to share that, because I think a lot of people are like no, like-

Russ Perry: Which is so rad by the way. I mean you coach the business that way.

Mika Perry: It’s so cool.

Russ Perry: We were just at a big marketing conference in San Diego, and they were talking like the trend is like small personal interactions. That’s what’s going to be dominating. So just want to let you know, you’re already ahead of the trend.

Mika Perry: You are. They were talking about scaling and scalability, and automation and big. They said, you know what? We’ve hit a roadblock with that now, moves small, be slower, don’t scale. I thought that was so fascinating and in some ways for me, I was like well I’ve already incorporated that into some of the things I already do. I naturally do that, because that’s who I am and you have been doing that for years now. That’s the beauty of your business.

Emme Diane: Well, it’s funny you say that because of course we’ve been approached by Amazon nonstop, and even like Nordstrom, and people reaching out wanting to help scale the business super fast. I’m like, “No, no, no, no, no, no, no. Hold on.” Unless we’re able to look at everyone’s unique skin concerns, it’s not going to work and that’s the problem is that we need to make sure that we get a game plan for each person. So something else I’ll share is that as of right now, we are working on Emme University for estheticians across the country. So other estheticians who are interested will be able to come, and learn everything I do from a professional standpoint to replicate in their businesses to help more people worldwide, because I get emails all the time of my long distance clients, who make up about 90% of my clients now who want to get treatments, but they’re like where do I go because they need to avoid pore clogging ingredients.
So this is going to be our long term solution, but I have to make sure that each esthetician is trained on specifically how to troubleshoot the skin, what to do if a certain situation arises, what to recommend for a client, on and on and on. So that’s the way that I think is best for us to scale, because we can never lose that personal touch. If people just start picking out product online themselves, it’s not going to work the same. So yeah. So I love hearing that. Yay.

Mika Perry: I’m so excited.

Russ Perry: Shaving creams.

Emme Diane: Honestly, a lot of the shaving cream, the way that they work is and you know how you put it on, it’s supposed to make the hair softer. So they’re very-

Russ Perry: I don’t even know why I do it sometimes.

Emme Diane: That’s what you were taught when you were first shaving, right?

Russ Perry: Yeah, I just so it doesn’t rip your face off.

Emme Diane: Totally. So the way that shaving creams work is that if you’ve ever heard in skin commercials like Ph balance skin care. So Ph balance means that the product is naturally a little acidic, because our skin is naturally acidic. When you use a product that is incredibly alkaline, like shaving cream, or think of like ivory soap, it makes the skin super soft and it’ll make the hair softer too to make it easier to shave, but having your skin in that alkaline state actually puts it in a very vulnerable spot, because your skin creates what we call the acid mantle out of your natural oil and sweat. That protects against bacteria, that protects against inflammation, that kind of thing.
So when your skin is not Ph balanced, especially from shave cream, that’s when a lot of irritation and super dehydration. Like if you take a bath with ivory soap and you get out, it feel soft and then when your skin dries, you’re itchy and tightened, stuff like that. So that’s an example of skin that’s not Ph balanced. So use Mika’s Gentle Cleanser. You have my permission, I’ll give her an extra bottle. Use that really-

Russ Perry: It’s like on like a beautiful tray, all that stuff. It’s definitely like a display.

Mika Perry: Of course, I went to Container Store and found the tray that contain all of my Emme products on there. We have a lot of moms and women-

Russ Perry: Well hang on, I just want to say simple shave by Emme.

Emme Diane: Yay, I like it.

Russ Perry: It can be for male or female because we both shave.

Emme Diane: That’s true. We’re going to have Russ Perry skincare by Emme Diane.

Russ Perry: Sorry to interrupt, Diane.

Emme Diane: I know, it’s okay. I love how much you’re interested in the skincare.

Russ Perry: I could go, I know you don’t have a lot more time, [inaudible]. I love this stuff.

Emme Diane: Do you have a safe at your house, because you’re going to need to lock up your products now.

Mika Perry: No kidding.

Emme Diane: I know.

Russ Perry: We do, but it’s in a non climate controlled environment, which I don’t believe is.

Mika Perry: Yeah. No, we don’t want to [inaudible] that there.

Emme Diane: You probably know the Combo too, don’t you Russ?

Mika Perry: I don’t.

Russ Perry: I do. Mika doesn’t.

Mika Perry: So then I would be screwed.

Emme Diane: Shoot, nevermind.

Mika Perry: We have a lot of moms here and when I’ve shared about skincare and you know, I go on my stories most times without any makeup on. I do that as an advertisement to you is just that I’m so confident in my skin now. I feel weird when I put makeup on. I actually have makeup on today and it feels weird to me, because I feel so happy and confident without any makeup on, with bare skin. A lot of women like me, I struggled with melasma and I love that you have a dietary component to your coaching. I learned a lot about melasma that isn’t about topical things. It’s about what are the triggers that you’re eating and habits. What are some of the top tips you can give for the cause of melasma, and some tips to help combat that as far as a diet perspective?

Emme Diane: Basically, melasma like acne is an inherited condition. You either have the propensity to get it or you don’t, and it’s inherited. It is a type of pigmentation that’s a little unique. It shows up as cloudy patches on the skin. Many times people will refer to it saying they have dirty face. It can show up like on upper lip or on the cheeks, and it’s just like this clouded area. Very, very stubborn. Unfortunately, some of the things that are the most triggering are actually the things that are marketed nowadays as being what will cure it, which is super frustrating to me, such as lasers or light treatments. So heat and friction will actually exacerbate it and unfortunately, with the lasers, although immediately it’ll look improved. When it comes back, it will have reinforced it deeper and it makes it more difficult to fade. So definitely step away from any lasers, light treatments that have intense, intense heat.
Also saunas, steam rooms, hot yoga, these are things that are not ideal for someone who does have melasma. Also friction. So step away from the clarisonic brushes, the micro derm facials, the micro needling. The reason that the pigment kicks up to trauma like heat or friction is because like when we go in the sun and get a sun tan, that’s not something healthy actually. That’s our skin going, “Holy shit, I’m being pummeled by solar radiation. Defend, defend, defend.” Okay? So when you have melasma, it’s really triggered by trauma, and so when the skin interprets anything as being traumatic to the skin, it will kick up that pigment to protect it. That’s also why if you get a pimple, you get a dark mark left behind. If you get a scratch, sometimes it leaves a dark area behind the skin pigments, when it feels like it’s under attack to protect itself.
So that’s why those types of things are very triggering. Also, melasma is ruled by hormones. That’s why it’s known as pregnancy mask. It typically can come on during pregnancy. However, because we live in a world where birth control is so prevalent, birth control can trigger it. Also, just natural hormonal shifts that we have every seven to 10 years as women can trigger it too. So there’s many reasons why it can be triggered by hormones, if that makes sense. It’s not just pregnancy now. Unfortunately any hormonal birth control, even low dose hormone birth control is very triggering to melasma too. Now that’s a conversation to have with your doctor, if you’re on birth control and you have melasma. Also babies create melasma. So if you’re not looking to have a baby and you’re on birth control, careful there. So those are the main triggers to it. Some things that can help would be making sure that you avoid foods that are high in like phytoestrogen such as soy.
Some foods that can help a lot are foods that are rich in copper. Copper really helps to break down the production of melanin in the skin. So that would be a lot of nuts, or rich fish, or things like that. So all of these tips are in the melasma manuals. If you think you have melasma, just email me and I’ll send you over the melasma manual. The same for acne. If you’re dealing with acne, or even multiple skin conditions like for you, for example, when you came in, we started with melasma. You wanted to just start with melasma and I’m like, “No honey, let’s relists this. We got to tackle the acne first.”

Mika Perry: Yeah, I was so overcome with the melasma that I didn’t realize that I had low grade, medium grade acne, just constantly. Constantly. So I’ve made the changes that you recommend in the acne bible, and you’re coaching. On top of the treatments and the skincare, and it’s just like a whole listic approach to skincare that I think any woman, like I recommend you to so many people.

Russ Perry: Or men.

Emme Diane: No boys allowed.

Russ Perry: Come on Emme, [inaudible].

Emme Diane: You got it.

Mika Perry: All right, men too. Women and men, you guys can all benefit from Emme. Well, I am so happy that you joined us here today, Emme. I think you have so much to offer both from your business, but then also from your personal story that you’ve shared here today, I hope that the listener here can gain a lot of personal insight wherever they are in their journey of figuring out where do I direct my energy? How do I get more clarity in life? Your business being so successful is such a testament to the hard work that you’ve put in, but also just that clarity and focus, and also just a clear mind and a singular purpose.
So thank you for doing that because you’ve made a difference in so many people’s lives. Some may think skincare is a surface level and it really isn’t. If you struggle with something with your skin, it’s really deep and it can really affect someone’s confidence. So I think you’re doing so many good things out there. So thank you so much for joining us, and I’m excited for Russ to be-

Russ Perry: Wash my face every night.

Mika Perry: Wash your face every night.

Russ Perry: Not with hand soap.

Mika Perry: So I’d love for you to share where we can find you online, how we can get more information from you.

Emme Diane: Absolutely. Well I try to keep it pretty easy. It’s Emme Diane practically everywhere. So on Instagram, Emme Diane. Facebook, Emme Diane. My email is I always love to get emails from people. Our website It is E-M-M-E and then Diane, D-I-A-N-E.

Russ Perry: Wonderful, and we’ll link to that on our website too. Emme, it’s so great to meet you.

Emme Diane: Likewise.

Russ Perry: The legendary, Emme Diane. Thank you so much for having us sharing your story and your vulnerability.

Emme Diane: Thank you. This was super fun.

Russ Perry: All right everyone. Well that wraps up this episode of Good To Be Home. Catch all the notes and links to Emme Diane’s products, Instagram and guides over at

Mika Perry: You can find us over on iTunes as usual, or anywhere you listen to podcasts. We really loved having you here today with us.

Russ Perry: All right, thanks everyone. We’ll see you next week.

Mika Perry: All right, bye.


Mika Perry: Don’t forget to subscribe on iTunes and give us a rating.

Russ Perry: See you next time.