

CMV: Ross and Rachel were a terrible couple.


CMV: Ross and Rachel were a terrible couple.

I've watched Friends a lot. It was on a bunch while I was in school, and I still put it on Netflix to have in the background sometimes. I understand why a lot of people don't like the show, but I still have a lot of affection for it, except for the Ross and Rachel storylines. I've never understood why they're considered such an iconic and romantic couple, people loved them so much despite the fact that as far as I can see, their relationship had more or less zero redeeming qualities.

First of all, remember that in ten seasons of the show, they are only actually together for one season. I don't think we know exactly how long they were together in 'real time' but since there's one Christmas and Thanksgiving episode every season we can presume one season roughly equals one year. So they never even really had a properly long term relationship, just ten years of mooning after each other and being dicks to each other for one year of actual dating. I get that a lot of people would argue that the writers of the show deliberately injected lots of drama and conflict to drive the show, because a stable relationship would get boring. Personally I don't think that's true - relationships don't mean smooth sailing, there are lots of opportunities for funny/interesting storylines and conflict within a stable relationship. If they couldn't write good storylines for them as a stable couple, to me that shows they weren't interesting as a stable couple to the viewer, and didn't have good chemistry when they weren't being super-dramatic with each other. Compare that with Chandler and Monica, who are mostly drama-free but still compelling, believable and romantic to watch for 6 seasons (okay the last couple of seasons kind of sucked).

Let's summarise the Ross and Rachel relationship that everyone was so into in the 90s:

First Ross moons over Rachel, then Rachel moons over Ross. They almost get together but then Ross makes the list of all her flaws. Rachel finds the list really hurtful. Remember at this point she is at the lowest and most insecure point of her life. Her whole life has suddenly switched from "Long Island Princess getting married to a rich guy" to "shitty waitress with no career prospects and a cheating ex-fiancee who's marrying her best friend", now the guy she thought was in love with her has written down all these shitty things about her. She claims to be done with him and trying to move on. However, after claiming she's done with him, she gets together with him after all because....she watches her and Monica's prom video and finds out that when her prom date was late to pick her up in high school, Ross was going to take her instead? Everyone acts like this is some beautiful romantic selfless moment and I have never understood why. Of course Ross was going to offer to take her to the prom. He had a crush on her. Not only was it an opportunity to take her on a date, but she was much less likely than usual to say no because she didn't want to go to prom on her own. It was hardly some selfless, amazing move. Yet all the Friends think he's wonderful for it and she instantly forgives him. They're together for a season and then break up because Ross can't handle her having a busy job and a male coworker. When Rachel says they should take a break he immediately storms out and sleeps with another woman. Regardless of all the "we were on a break" drama, that's a shitty thing to do to someone you supposedly love, even if you thought you were technically 'allowed'. Then Rachel gets jealous of his new girlfriend and convinces her to shave her head so Ross won't find her sexy, they get back together behind Ross' new girlfriend's back, Rachel's shitty and patronising to him, Ross refuses to take responsibility for the shit he did and it ends pretty much immediately with a screaming fight.

That's the whole actual relationship. For the next seven seasons they don't get back together, but whenever they have some kind of will-they-won't-they or relationship-related story together, it's shitty and negative. Rachel gets jealous and crazy over his relationship with Emily and sabotages his wedding. Ross ruins his new marriage over Rachel. Ross refuses to divorce Rachel and then lies to her about it. When Rachel gets pregnant Ross is shitty and unsupportive, then supportive but thinks they should get married because he thinks Rachel is too useless to raise a baby without a husband. During the pregnancy they don't want to date each other, but sabotage each other's attempts at dating - Rachel calls the girl he dates a 'whore', Ross hides a guy's phone number, they both ruin Ross' relationship with Mona. Their whole relationship is just horrible, but they have to get together at the end - with Rachel giving up an amazing job in Paris to be with him - because TV. If you knew this couple in real life you'd tell them to get restraining orders against each other.

Some people might say: they had lots of ups and downs, but people loved them because when they were together, they were so good. Except they weren't. Ross thinks Rachel's career is shallow and she thinks his career is boring. They have different life goals (Ross is already thinking about marriage and kids, Rachel has only just started her 'real life'). They don't seem to have any interests in common - the only thing they seem to bond on and enjoy together is sex. Actually their sex life is referenced a lot and a lot of the comments suggest they were very good in bed together, which suggests to me that they are just another wildly incompatible couple who are super-horny for each other despite being totally dysfunctional. They're not romantic or each other's "lobsters", they're just two people who are really awful together but can't keep away because they want the good sex, basically.

CMV because I don't understand why people shipped them so much

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level 1

Both of them are immature when it comes to relationships, and neither of them should really be faulted for that.

Ross has never been a ladies' man (you can see multiple failed attempts of flirting in the show), and likely didn't date in high school. Then he gets burned after his first wife turns out to be a lesbian. He consistently becomes defensive to shelter his ego from blame when it comes to wrongdoing ("We were on a break!").

Rachel got through high school being the pretty, rich girl with the childish crushes on guys like Chip. She flakes on her wedding, because she's not ready. She fails to have a steady relationship with anyone on the show, and is not shown to be too smart about how to make a good relationship happen (how long did she try getting Joshua to ask her out?).

So we've established that both of them are inexperienced/immature when it comes to committed relationships. But the thing that they have going for each other is that they care about each other deeply and each have feelings for the other even if suppressed at times.

If the two of them would get into couples' therapy, they could learn to better exist as partners in a healthy relationship. They don't have to share everything in common, but they do need to utilize the love they have for each other as a reason to improve each of themselves in exhibiting more patience and understanding. Their relationship on the show is one of hope that they'll finally figure out how to love, so that they can be happy together as a couple instead of as childish individuals whose flaws prevent them from keeping a relationship.

level 2
Original Poster3 points · 3 years ago

Surely she didn't flake on her wedding because she wasn't ready, but because she realised she didn't love him? She was definitely immature at the beginning, but seems to improve generally from there (she doesn't have so much of the "princess" personality after the first couple of seasons). She's mostly a fairly mature character except for when involving herself with Ross.

"Their relationship on the show is one of hope that they'll finally figure out how to love" - this is an interesting viewpoint that I hadn't really thought about before, but I'm not sure I'm convinced. I feel like people's view was "they need to just get together, they're so perfect for each other", rather than "they need to improve in order to get together". Also I think they might have been able to improve themselves better with other people that they didn't have such a tortured history with.

level 1
2∆10 points · 3 years ago · edited 3 years ago


Rewatch that episode. She didn't find out that her date was going to be late. She thought he wasn't going to show up at all. She was crying and completely broken up. Ross with his crush and awkwardness was getting ready to save her night and her prom memories (a big deal for someone like her). Then her date showed up and she was happy happy happy, and then she saw on the video how crushed he was. And she never knew.

level 2
Original Poster2 points · 3 years ago

She was really upset and saving her night would have made her happy. But it wasn't a selfless or impressive move on his part. For starters, it's not his own idea, his dad convinces him. Second of all it's something he would have wanted to do, he basically gets to take her on a date but with a much lower risk of rejection. It would be different if, for example, he had some plans that night he was really looking forward to and then cancelled them to take her. But he doesn't really lose anything by asking her. If it's romantic and she sees him differently because of it, it would be like a date, but if she just sees it as her friend's brother helping her save face, then he just looks like a really nice guy. What does he risk or lose?

I get that when she sees on the video how crushed he was, she would feel sympathy for him. But they don't play it as "look at how upset he was", they play it as "what a selfless thing he did". Monica says to him "I can't believe you did that", implying he did something impressive.

level 1
2∆2 points · 3 years ago · edited 3 years ago

Ross loved her from his youth.

Decades later after all kinds of trials and tribulations, especially because they were of the worst... they still got back together. They found each other.

That alone is reason to say they are a couple to be loved and idolized. In the end, nothing else matters than having the one you love.

Especially since the audience realizes that they themselves are nowhere near perfect and can be petty as hell as well.

This is why we loved them. We saw ourselves in them. And the writers gifted us with hope for still, especially despite: eternal, true love.

Really there is no better definition of true love other than it was there for Ross at least since first sight and lasted up to semi-adulthood (this alone already makes us root for him) and after the parts we got to see in the show, it still lasted all the way to the end. When you get that: Nothing else in between matters. All that matters is love, it was real, and our deepest wishes were fulfilled: For it to come true.

One of the most iconic couples of all time.

level 2
Original Poster3 points · 3 years ago

Getting back together again and again after not working out is more a sign of a super-unhealthy relationship than "true love" though.

I think I have a more general problem with the media and society in that it paints romantic love as the only thing you need in a relationship, which IMO is bound to set people up for unhealthy relationships in real life. Lots of people end up in unhealthy, unhappy or even violent/dangerous relationships because people are taught that if you love someone, nothing else matters. TV/movies only put a focus on getting together and being in love but stuff like respect, trust, compromise, arguing well together and solving problems as a team, compatible life goals etc. are sidelined. Rachel abandons her amazing job opportunity at the end of the show because "oh I don't want it anyway, I just want this guy", even though she hasn't successfully dated him for any long period of time and there's no moments (as far as I remember) where they really show they've got over their issues with each other.

Again, I think Monica and Chandler are actually a way better example to follow. Monica and Richard were arguably "true love" but she broke up with him and moved on, even though it was hard, because they knew they were at different life stages. She then has a relationship with Chandler and when Richard comes back into her life she knows she won't get back together with him because the situation isn't right for her and she has a new "true love". That's much more realistic and healthy, I think. I wish Chandler and Monica were seen as the iconic ones.

level 1

They're both terrible, toxic people who are virtually incapable of a stable relationship. Them being together is damage control. This way, they won't drag anyone else down.

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level 1
9∆6 points · 3 years ago


but it's not real life. it's TV. if it were real life we'd all hate joey for being a womanizing misogynist pig. instead we love his zany antics.

it's just fun amusement. the bad things that happen happen for the sake of comedy.

at the end of the day, they love each other and want to be with each other, so as a TV couple, that makes them a good one.

5 more replies

level 1

I don't know if you've ever had a co-dependent or otherwise by society branded "unhealthy" relationship before, but those can be one of the most passionate types of all. I mean the type you still think back to when you're laying next to your wife, realizing this is a "much more stable long-term upholdable outcome, I guess," but damn did that love where you would do anything without restraint, go crazy, but it'd always be fine and you knew you always got back together anyway feel amazing, feel alive.

You never forget that person.

level 1
1∆1 point · 3 years ago

I actually mostly agree. But on the topic of the Prom Video - wasn't Ross in college, or otherwise already graduated from high school, during that video? That's part of what made it so romantic, IIRC.

level 2
Original Poster1 point · 3 years ago

Why would that make it more romantic? Because being in college would make him cool in the eyes of the high schoolers? I feel like the people in high school wouldn't think "oh wow she bagged a college dude she's awesome", they'd just be like "oh she's going with Monica's brother, all right".

level 1
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level 2
Moderator of r/changemyview, speaking officially1 point · 3 years ago

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level 1

Friends is a show where all the main characters have major personality flaws and are actually bad people so I feel like it's difficult to show an actual loving relationship. I know Monica and Chandler are good for the most part but remember when Monica is angry at Chandler for smoking but she tricks him into having sex with her because she is ovulating??? That's kind of what I mean.

The main thing about Ross and Rachael is that through all of their setbacks and jealousy they really did care about each other and would sometimes put the others happiness before their own. Sure Rachael went to London to confess her feeling and make sure Ross didn't marry Emily, but when she got there and saw how happy he was, she was prepared to watch the man she loved marry another woman. Or when Ross misses his big t.v appearance that he was excited for to take Rachael to the hospital because she thought she broke her rib.

Wether it's Rachael helping Ross move or Ross rushing to her side when her dad has a heart attack, they do things for each other because they are best friends. Combine that friendship with some obvious sexual chemistry and they just might be each others lobsters.

level 2
Original Poster1 point · 3 years ago

There were some points where they were selfless for each other, yes. But I'm not sure that's enough to justify their relationship. It seems to be about a 20:80 split between caring moves and dick moves. They help each other out a lot but that's what all the Friends do for each other.

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