Log for #openttdcoop on 4th October 2010:
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00:00:10  *** GhostlyDeath has joined #openttdcoop
00:00:33  <GhostlyDeath> heh
00:02:46  <Ammler> @topic remove -1
00:02:46  *** Webster changes topic to "Welcome to #openttdcoop, the Cooperative OpenTTD | PSG #194 (r20801) | STAGE: Building | | New players, use @quickstart and !help | Screenshots:"
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01:05:52  <GhostlyDeath> @quickstart
01:05:53  <GhostlyDeath> !help
01:05:53  <PublicServer> GhostlyDeath:
01:05:54  <Webster> Quickstart - #openttdcoop Wiki -
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03:02:27  <Carci> !password
03:02:27  <PublicServer> Carci: jawing
03:02:41  <PublicServer> *** Game still paused (number of players)
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03:09:09  <Carci> Question: If you have more than one engine on a train, is it less likely to break down--since they'd both have to break down for it to stop? >.>
03:12:12  <Sylf> I think they're considered as one unit
03:12:22  <Sylf> so the breakdown rate remains the same.
03:12:27  <Carci> So the benefit is just in acceleration?
03:12:37  <Sylf> Yes.
03:12:54  <Sylf> And better up-hill too in some cases.
03:13:04  <Carci> *nod*
03:13:23  <Carci> Also, on the ps map right now... where are the goods being dropped off, if anywhere? I'm having a hard time finding that.
03:13:46  <Sylf> Yes, goods pick ups are also goods drops.
03:14:24  <Carci> How's that work? >.>
03:14:30  <Sylf> If you search the towns near-by carefully, you can find fragments of those stations
03:15:36  <Carci> Hmm, also, I think I'm seeing...
03:15:39  <Sylf> For example, in the Southeast corner, by the Grain Drop 02, there's Drunnington
03:15:49  <Sylf> The truck stop in that town is a part of that Grain Drop 02
03:15:52  <Carci> The livestock transfer stations connect two completely separated lines, right?
03:16:08  <Sylf> right - the inner network and the outer network
03:16:11  <Carci> As in there's one line for taking everything from farms to central transfer hub/station/whatevers
03:16:27  <Carci> And then the network for taking them from there to the factories and from factories to towns.
03:16:45  <Sylf> right.
03:17:16  <Carci> Cool. Starting to make sense to me.
03:17:33  <Carci> First time I looked at the map, all could think was 'What the heck is going on?'
03:19:00  <PublicServer> <Sylf> Do you see the !! NETWORK PLAN !!
03:19:10  <PublicServer> <Sylf> this whole thing was built from just that
03:19:48  <Carci> *nod*
03:23:33  <Carci> How is Grain Drop 01 connected to Wrindingham? I don't see the walk-in there o.o
03:24:52  <PublicServer> <Sylf> there's a truck stop
03:25:02  <PublicServer> <Sylf> hit ctrl-shift-3
03:25:24  <PublicServer> <Sylf> It'll hide all buildings, but leaves the stations visible
03:25:37  <Carci> Oh wow, it'll let you spread a truck stop that far?
03:25:48  <PublicServer> <Sylf> 64 tiles
03:26:06  <PublicServer> <Sylf> That's the station spread in the advanced setting
03:26:32  <Carci> Ohh, normally it's less than that, I guess.
03:26:59  <PublicServer> <Sylf> up to 12 or 20 are popular numbers
03:27:13  <Carci> *nod*
03:27:27  <Carci> I feel like I'm learning this better now. :D
03:33:15  <Carci> One last question: Which city is livestock drop 2 connected to?
03:33:57  <PublicServer> <Sylf> To Wranley Market
03:34:11  <PublicServer> <Sylf> There's a 1-square train station
03:34:34  <Carci> Wow, that's a huge jump o.o
03:35:04  <PublicServer> <Sylf> wait, that's a wrong station
03:35:26  <PublicServer> <Sylf> oh, there's a station in Wartston
03:36:32  <PublicServer> <Sylf> southwest corner of town
03:36:48  <Carci> Oh, I see!
03:38:38  <PublicServer> *** Carci has left the game (connection lost)
03:44:28  <Carci> Okay okay, I guess I have another question. What is the first year new things start getting invented? I just realized you could, theoretically, start a game at year 0
03:45:02  <PublicServer> <Sylf> It depends on the GRF used.
03:45:20  <PublicServer> <Sylf> Some GRF, like US train set, go back to like 1820 or something, I think.
03:45:42  <Carci> Oh wow...
03:45:44  <PublicServer> <Sylf> The default train set starts at around 1940
03:45:51  <Carci> Bus depots haven't been invented yet.
03:46:02  <Carci> Can't do ANYTHING xD
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03:49:10  <Carci> Protip: Don't start a game before 1800 >.>
03:53:18  <PublicServer> <Sylf> starting before 1920 is crazy in most cases anyway >_<
03:53:30  <Carci> True :P
03:54:13  <Carci> another question, now. Why is it that we're still using the electrified tracks in the ps game?
03:55:12  <PublicServer> <Sylf> as opposed to monorail or maglev?
03:55:21  <PublicServer> <Sylf> Because these engine sets don't have those trains
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03:55:47  <Carci> Ohh
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03:56:13  <PublicServer> <Sylf> Very few train sets have maglevs
03:56:28  <PublicServer> <Sylf> And most of them are for Passengers and mail only
03:57:42  <Carci> Guess the standard train set is just funny then?
03:58:21  <PublicServer> <Sylf> Imagine cows traveling at 400mph
03:59:05  <Carci> Heh xD
03:59:29  <Carci> Hey, people do it! Why not cows?
03:59:37  <Carci> Oh wait, people are strapped in >.>
04:01:12  <Carci> Ooh, this american renewal train set is neat. :D
04:01:40  <PublicServer> <Sylf> It's a pretty good set
04:02:18  <PublicServer> <Sylf> from old trains to fast, modern trains
04:02:28  <PublicServer> <Sylf> And some trains that I see everyday ^_^
04:03:09  <Carci> Hehe!
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05:15:48  <bmarky> !password
05:15:48  <PublicServer> bmarky: rodent
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05:16:56  <PublicServer> <Sylf> oh hey, someone's here
05:17:09  <PublicServer> <bmarky> good morning :)
05:17:29  <PublicServer> <Sylf> It's getting late here :p
05:18:01  <PublicServer> <bmarky> just woke up...
05:23:52  <PublicServer> *** bmarky has left the game (connection lost)
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05:23:59  <bmarky> gotta go
05:24:01  <bmarky> bye
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05:24:07  <PublicServer> <Sylf> see ya
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06:28:58  <Carci> Hah
06:29:13  <Carci> Spent millions upon millions of dollars carpeting my entire map with dense forest.
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10:00:36  <Paltala> !players
10:00:38  <PublicServer> Paltala: There are currently no clients connected to the server
10:00:44  <Paltala> well, thats underwhelming
10:00:53  <Paltala> !password
10:00:53  <PublicServer> Paltala: rodent
10:01:01  <Paltala> !dl win64
10:01:01  <PublicServer> Paltala:
10:02:50  <Paltala> god dammit, is anyone actually here?
10:07:17  * greenlion  
10:07:21  <G> yeah I am
10:07:31  * G was going to login and see how it's progressed
10:08:30  <PublicServer> *** Game still paused (number of players)
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10:08:32  <Paltala> fair enough
10:08:33  <PublicServer> *** Paltala joined the game
10:08:45  <Paltala> i was last on during the last psg but only did a bit
10:08:56  <Paltala> im not in school today so i thought i'd have a look
10:11:00  <G> looks pretty much done
10:11:22  <PublicServer> <Paltala> looks like i've missed this psg
10:14:26  <PublicServer> <Paltala> i guess i can get some done
10:14:41  <PublicServer> ***  made screenshot at 0003D569:
10:22:48  <PublicServer> <Paltala> i connected a farm :D
10:22:58  <PublicServer> <Nigel> woohoo
10:23:14  <PublicServer> <Paltala> wow, small builders board
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10:25:05  <Deamonhunter11> !password]
10:25:10  <Deamonhunter11> !password
10:25:10  <PublicServer> Deamonhunter11: vulgar
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10:29:41  <PublicServer> ***  made screenshot at 0002E46B:
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12:12:11  <als> !playercount
12:12:11  <PublicServer> als: Number of players: 0 (0 spectators)
12:12:43  <als> !password
12:12:43  <PublicServer> als: vulgar
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13:38:15  <bmarky> hi all
13:38:19  <bmarky> !password
13:38:19  <PublicServer> bmarky: vulgar
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13:44:42  <PublicServer> ***  made screenshot at 00031457:
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13:59:42  <PublicServer> ***  made screenshot at 000296A3:
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14:03:45  <PublicServer> *** Game paused (number of players)
14:05:15  <PublicServer> <als> Nooo, I was in the middle of something!
14:05:17  <PublicServer> <als> :(
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14:14:42  <PublicServer> ***  made screenshot at 00021DFC:
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14:16:53  <bmarky> so sorry
14:16:59  <bmarky> !password
14:16:59  <PublicServer> bmarky: cloths
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14:17:20  <PublicServer> <als> Thanks. :)
14:17:56  <PublicServer> *** avdg joined the game
14:18:05  <PublicServer> <bmarky> on what are you woking?
14:18:11  <PublicServer> <als> Just a farm
14:18:21  <PublicServer> <avdg> :p and here no desync errors
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14:20:07  <bmarky> could you link me the site where i can download the last save game?
14:21:06  <PublicServer> <als> Hm, dinner
14:21:15  <Ammler> !info
14:21:15  <PublicServer> Ammler: #:1(Orange) Company Name: 'Plunningpool Transport'  Year Founded: 1960  Money: 22374254404  Loan: 0  Value: 22388743607  (T:1265, R:336, P:8, S:0) unprotected
14:21:17  <Ammler> !url
14:21:17  <PublicServer> Ammler:
14:21:21  <Ammler> bmarky: ^
14:21:28  <bmarky> thanks!
14:22:37  <bmarky> just trying myself out on makeing the 4th line on the outter ring
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14:23:10  <bmarky> or maybe just some parts of it :)
14:24:17  <PublicServer> <avdg> check !slow
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14:29:42  <PublicServer> ***  made screenshot at 00024CE2:
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14:33:01  <bmarky> cant make it ...
14:33:11  <PublicServer> <avdg> ?
14:34:02  <bmarky> just wanted to try out some technics, to upgrade the outter ring, so i downloaded a save and tried it
14:34:26  <PublicServer> <avdg> add a line :p
14:35:05  <PublicServer> <avdg> or separate it into 2 networks
14:35:16  <bmarky> the hubs are to complicated to me
14:35:54  <PublicServer> <avdg> they aren't so hard, at least, to follow it
14:36:16  <PublicServer> <avdg> editing, can be harder yes
14:36:31  <PublicServer> <avdg> but I see some missing signals :p
14:36:33  <bmarky> i almost understand the way things works
14:37:16  <bmarky> what is hard for me to make things like a balancing system right after a hub...
14:37:28  <PublicServer> <avdg> if you separate the network, you should have no collisions at all
14:38:03  <bmarky> for this time i'm just watchin what u guy do
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14:38:50  <PublicServer> <avdg> separate it :p
14:39:08  <PublicServer> <avdg> make the network more boring, but more efficient
14:44:42  <PublicServer> ***  made screenshot at 0001BBDC:
14:55:10  <Sylf_mobile> separate? like grain line and cow line?
14:55:26  <PublicServer> <avdg> and maybe a goods line
14:55:52  <PublicServer> <avdg> but maybe I am over-optimising now
14:56:53  <Sylf_mobile> that will eliminate outer hubs completely...
14:57:35  <PublicServer> <avdg> less hubs, less jammingspots
14:58:54  <greenlion> avdg, that sounds like a competely different network plan :)
14:59:11  <PublicServer> <avdg> true
14:59:34  <PublicServer> * avdg spots more and more gaps on the network
14:59:43  <PublicServer> ***  made screenshot at 00010533:
14:59:51  <Sylf_mobile> i still want to do true 4th line
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15:06:39  <Sylf_mobile> but all hubs and drop stations are optimised for 3 lines
15:07:02  <PublicServer> <avdg> well, that wasn't needed
15:08:52  <PublicServer> <avdg> I bet that if we gave the ls route just 1 line, it would run fine
15:09:22  <PublicServer> <avdg> giving it 3 lines, and  you have more chances of waving
15:09:56  <PublicServer> <avdg> where the first train carry everything and the trains behind nothing
15:12:53  <greenlion> with 1 line you won't have enough trains to carry all cargo
15:13:06  <PublicServer> <avdg> but enough for the ls
15:13:24  <PublicServer> <avdg> I didn't tell something about grain and goods
15:13:36  <greenlion> it had like 10000t waiting at transfer stations
15:14:43  <PublicServer> ***  made screenshot at 00010B7D:
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15:17:20  <kais58> !dl lin
15:17:20  <PublicServer> kais58:
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15:26:48  <kais58> whats the pub servers ip?
15:29:13  <Sylf_mobile> !ip
15:29:14  <PublicServer> Sylf_mobile:
15:29:30  <Sylf_mobile> ^
15:29:43  <PublicServer> ***  made screenshot at 000180CC:
15:31:24  <kais58> hmm, cant see the server, or any others...
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15:33:59  <Sylf_mobile> on internet mode? not lan mode
15:34:39  <kais58> im on internet mode
15:35:24  <Sylf_mobile> game isn't blocked by firewall?
15:36:11  <kais58> the network im on is prbably blocking it :/
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16:58:02  <als> !password
16:58:02  <PublicServer> als: trance
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16:58:24  <PublicServer> <greenlion> hi
16:58:47  <PublicServer> <als> Hi
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17:00:57  <Paul2> Hiya
17:01:08  <Paul2> anyone still doing any Infrastructure Sharing stuff?
17:04:55  <davis> it's still pretty bugged afaik
17:05:28  <davis> might ask Amm-ler about that
17:05:36  <davis> according to wiki he's one of the developers
17:05:54  <davis> Hirund-o aswell
17:06:34  <davis>
17:06:39  <Paul2> yeah there was a bit of gaming a while ago in #jolteon who was running an IS2.1 serer
17:07:25  <davis> ah , nice
17:07:26  <Paul2> Total of 1 nicks   <- me :(
17:07:45  <davis> haha well , looks like it's being "rewritten" at this point
17:10:16  <Paul2> :(
17:10:23  <Paul2> IS is great imo
17:10:52  <davis> so is cargo destination.
17:11:33  <Paul2> <insert massive arguement about differing opinions> :)
17:11:55  <davis> haha no , I like IS aswell , it's great no doubt =)
17:14:43  <PublicServer> ***  made screenshot at 0000FDEB:
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17:20:23  <Djarshi> eya
17:20:26  <Djarshi> !players
17:20:28  <PublicServer> Djarshi: Client 733 (Orange) is greenlion, in company 1 (Plunningpool Transport)
17:20:28  <PublicServer> Djarshi: Client 735 (Orange) is als, in company 1 (Plunningpool Transport)
17:20:28  <Djarshi> !help
17:20:28  <PublicServer> Djarshi:
17:20:40  <Djarshi> !password
17:20:40  <PublicServer> Djarshi: raping
17:20:56  <PublicServer> *** Djarshi joined the game
17:20:57  <PublicServer> <Djarshi> Heya
17:21:03  <PublicServer> <greenlion> hey
17:23:18  <PublicServer> <Djarshi> Interesting, when i have my music off, normal sfx is off too. First i have to enable music, then automatically normal sfx gets enabled too...
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17:25:00  <PublicServer> <Djarshi> Ok, I have a plan for building, the NE inner line is a roundabout of LLL. The SW inner line is not ... and has lots of open ends... I was thinking making it alot like the NE line... but dont know what the plan was for that part.
17:25:23  <PublicServer> <Djarshi> It seems that part had a different plan, because that has LL_____RR in it
17:26:41  <PublicServer> <greenlion> there was no details on that parts in plan
17:27:31  <PublicServer> <greenlion> but I don't think it should be changed
17:27:55  <PublicServer> <greenlion> they are just different
17:28:07  <PublicServer> <Djarshi> ok
17:29:03  <PublicServer> <Djarshi> It looks like it might be designed by /Tray
17:29:21  <PublicServer> <greenlion> yeah
17:29:44  <PublicServer> ***  made screenshot at 00006507:
17:29:48  <PublicServer> <Djarshi> And it looks half finished
17:30:07  <PublicServer> <greenlion> why  half finished?
17:30:52  <PublicServer> <Djarshi> Check:  !here1  and !here2
17:31:08  <PublicServer> <greenlion> and?
17:31:30  <PublicServer> <greenlion> just the end of line
17:32:03  <PublicServer> <als> What is bad with that?
17:32:05  <PublicServer> <Djarshi> oh ok
17:32:19  <PublicServer> <Djarshi> It looks like someone was making something and stopped in middle of something.
17:32:25  <PublicServer> <Djarshi> That's how it looks to me :)
17:35:38  <PublicServer> <Djarshi> Ok, to summarize, order me to do something. Cuz if you let me i will build stuff and probably i will break things that other ppl had different plans with
17:36:13  <PublicServer> <Djarshi> I dont like making ppl mad cus of my doings
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17:37:31  <PublicServer> <als> I think you make more people mad when you dont even try to spell correct...
17:38:43  <PublicServer> *** avdg joined the game
17:38:47  <PublicServer> <greenlion> hey avdg
17:38:53  <PublicServer> <avdg> hey greenlion
17:38:55  <PublicServer> <Djarshi> Hey
17:39:01  <PublicServer> <als> Hey
17:39:03  <PublicServer> <avdg> hey
17:41:39  <PublicServer> <greenlion> Djarshi: can't imagine what you can do without possiblity to broke something :) connect last two farms may be
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17:44:44  <PublicServer> ***  made screenshot at 0000D7EB:
17:45:01  <PublicServer> <Djarshi> I can do all kinds of stuff, problem is i cannot smell the plan on detailed level, so need some guidance on what to do. It is not that i necessarily break things. But well my first day wasnt all that successful so to speak ;p
17:46:04  <PublicServer> <avdg> whoops
17:46:07  <PublicServer> <avdg> wooden bridge -_-
17:46:12  <PublicServer> <Djarshi> lol
17:46:35  <PublicServer> <greenlion> I had wooden bridge for prio :)
17:47:39  <Sylf_mobile> i've seen wooden bridges in srnw station exits
17:47:47  <Sylf_mobile> that was brilliant
17:47:59  <PublicServer> <avdg> I can believe that :p
17:49:21  <PublicServer> <greenlion> inner ne hub is jamming?
17:50:10  <Sylf_mobile> exit to the quadrant?
17:50:21  <Sylf_mobile> or merge to the circle?
17:50:31  <PublicServer> <greenlion> exit to inner ML
17:50:46  <PublicServer> <greenlion> seem to be fine now though
17:51:13  <avdg> !tunnels 4
17:51:14  <PublicServer> avdg: !tunnels <trainlength> <gap>: Returns amount of tunnels/bridges needed. Formula: (<gap>+<trainlength>-2)/(<trainlength>+2)
17:51:52  <avdg> @tunnels 4
17:51:52  <Webster> avdg: For Trainlength of 4: <= 10 needs 2, 11 - 16 needs 3, 17 - 22 needs 4.
17:58:10  <PublicServer> <Djarshi> Can someone check !djarshi wip sign? busy helping adding 4th line there. but need checkup there
17:59:44  <PublicServer> ***  made screenshot at 0003CF3B:
17:59:52  <PublicServer> <greenlion> Djarshi: how you are going to merge 4 lines to 3 input lines at station?
18:01:04  <PublicServer> <Djarshi> thinking about that now
18:01:34  <PublicServer> <Djarshi> als depends on what is more important, 4 lines the entire map round, or also connecting them to the stations
18:02:02  <PublicServer> <als> ?
18:02:16  <PublicServer> <greenlion> als = also there, I guess
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18:03:22  <PublicServer> <Djarshi> Hmm station input, is divided in 4 groups
18:03:34  <PublicServer> <Djarshi> Check !here grps
18:04:33  <PublicServer> <Djarshi> and the 3 input lines are divided over the 4 groups, each touchin one of the 4 groups.
18:05:36  <PublicServer> <greenlion> but each group has 3 inputs :)
18:05:36  <PublicServer> <Djarshi> Job is somewhat bigger, afraid to touch it
18:05:58  <PublicServer> <Djarshi> Will think it over, if i have plan i will tell u :-p Tips are welcome :)P
18:06:40  <PublicServer> <Djarshi> will make example
18:06:50  <PublicServer> <Djarshi> next to it, so i dont break current lines :)
18:07:13  <PublicServer> <greenlion> good idea :)
18:08:22  <PublicServer> *** Uristqwerty joined the game
18:08:29  <PublicServer> <Djarshi> eya
18:12:42  <PublicServer> <Djarshi> check !example sign
18:14:10  <PublicServer> <Djarshi> Currently trains are travelling about max speed, and there is 2 tiles signal room, which is enought for the quick side-step of one tile in the entrance waiting bay part.
18:14:44  <PublicServer> ***  made screenshot at 00023AD0:
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18:16:54  <PublicServer> *** Intexon joined the game
18:17:07  <PublicServer> <Intexon> hey
18:17:15  <PublicServer> <avdg> hey Intexon
18:21:27  <PublicServer> <Djarshi> Plan of adding 4th line into station, see: !example
18:21:37  <PublicServer> <Djarshi> What do you think? any problems i forgot?
18:22:11  <PublicServer> <Djarshi> the current situation is just 7 tiles down or so
18:23:04  <Sylf_mobile> there's no line mixing whatsoever in that plan
18:23:15  <PublicServer> *** Intexon has left the game (leaving)
18:24:07  <PublicServer> <greenlion> don't know how well it'll work w/o line mixing...
18:24:18  <PublicServer> <Djarshi> you mean, that they can change lines when entering the station. For 'load balancing'you mean?
18:24:37  <PublicServer> <Djarshi> I was thinking, the balancing part was done at the LV W Hub
18:25:16  <PublicServer> <greenlion> that hub does it's own balancing
18:25:39  <PublicServer> <Djarshi> true, and after comes the split to east
18:26:25  <PublicServer> <Djarshi> Who is making example2? :)
18:26:28  <PublicServer> <greenlion> me
18:26:30  <PublicServer> <Djarshi> kk
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18:26:49  <PublicServer> <greenlion> I'm not saying that first won't work, just another variant
18:27:03  <PublicServer> <Djarshi> okay
18:27:27  <planetmaker> good evening
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18:27:33  <PublicServer> <avdg> guys, don't forget to add yourself on the builders board
18:27:35  <PublicServer> <Djarshi> Hey planet
18:27:37  <PublicServer> <avdg> hey pm
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18:29:13  <Sylf_mobile> also, there's no need for the 4th line between station hubs
18:29:44  <PublicServer> ***  made screenshot at 000359BA:
18:29:48  <Sylf_mobile> half of the trains in theory split off to that station
18:30:41  <PublicServer> *** als has left the game (leaving)
18:30:43  <PublicServer> <Djarshi> kk
18:30:55  <Sylf_mobile> maybe you can make a 4=2+2 split?  or 4=2+3
18:31:24  <Sylf_mobile> line mixer will be much simpler then
18:31:54  <PublicServer> <greenlion> you can left X'es on old place, I guess - there'll be enough space
18:32:36  <PublicServer> <greenlion> yeah, making 4 as 2+2 is possible too
18:32:38  <PublicServer> <Djarshi> Okay, will think about it some morefirst :)
18:32:56  <PublicServer> <Djarshi> can someone show what you mean with 4=2+2 ?
18:35:33  <PublicServer> <greenlion> like that
18:35:40  <PublicServer> <Djarshi> Ah, and then small Xes after? Much easier to understand :)
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18:36:19  <PublicServer> <Djarshi> That was more a Question, is small Xés better or big X-es ?
18:36:34  <PublicServer> <avdg> keep them as small as possible
18:36:48  <PublicServer> <Djarshi> ok, otherwise they are in the way of 3 lines insyead of 2
18:36:54  <PublicServer> <avdg> except if you want to use pbs, which has other rules
18:37:04  <PublicServer> <greenlion> people used big ones for some unknown reason here :)
18:37:24  <PublicServer> <Djarshi> ok, i will change the station to the second plan you showed the 4=2+2 one
18:37:26  <PublicServer> <avdg> well, bigger are good when you use pbs
18:37:57  <PublicServer> <greenlion> but you need a plan also how you will change
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18:39:04  <PublicServer> <Djarshi> i was thinking, working from right to left, in steps. Since the station is not very full atm to
18:39:22  <PublicServer> <greenlion> because 4th line is unused now - if changed right now - with 4th line unusable - only 3/4 of station will be accessible
18:40:28  <PublicServer> <Djarshi> Yes sometimes theres a wave in the station, but sometimes theres like only 1/4th of the station used.
18:41:32  <PublicServer> <greenlion> yeah, but you can connect temporarily 4th line
18:41:38  <PublicServer> <Djarshi> I was tinking in steps of 2 rails at a time keeping all 4 incoming lines connected all times.
18:42:30  <PublicServer> <Djarshi> Starting with connecting the 4th incoming line temporarily
18:42:40  <PublicServer> <avdg> don't connect
18:43:02  <PublicServer> <avdg> its bad for the network balance
18:43:26  <PublicServer> <Djarshi> ok, u mean only connect later?
18:43:49  <PublicServer> <Djarshi> or never, or when the entire mainline is 4 lines wide?
18:43:51  <PublicServer> <avdg> especially when all trains are sharing the same tracks
18:44:06  <PublicServer> <avdg> just finish the 4th lane on the ml, then open it
18:44:40  <PublicServer> <Djarshi> ok,You mean, fix ML around map first, and when that is done connect station?
18:44:45  <PublicServer> ***  made screenshot at 000111F2:
18:45:03  <PublicServer> <avdg> well, keep the traffic on the ml balanced
18:45:19  <PublicServer> <avdg> stations may be rebuilded a bit later, if possible
18:46:39  <PublicServer> <Djarshi> Ok, still not entirely sure if i understand what you mean.
18:47:00  <PublicServer> <avdg> if we open only a part, then we may have some problems at the 4 > 3 joiner
18:47:12  <PublicServer> <Djarshi> Ah now i understand
18:47:21  <PublicServer> <avdg> because the trains are travelling on the same rail for lets say 60% of the time
18:47:53  <PublicServer> <avdg> there is no "hot spot" where there is 1 major jam
18:47:53  <PublicServer> <greenlion> but why open a part if we can open whole station?
18:48:15  <PublicServer> <avdg> I'm not talking about stations
18:48:33  <PublicServer> <avdg> you can do whatever you want, so long it doesn't affect the ml traffic
18:49:19  <PublicServer> <Djarshi> Ok, with the current change and amoun traffic in the station, i dont think ML will be affected since station is not very full..... ( my opinion )
18:50:33  <Sylf_mobile> opening incomplete 4th line doesn't make sense to me
18:50:59  <PublicServer> <greenlion> not on ML, inside the station
18:51:22  <Sylf_mobile> might as well send all outer ring trains to depots and do overhaul of the entire system
18:51:38  <Djarshi> lol
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18:51:46  <Djarshi> That was not the plan :p
18:51:56  <PublicServer> <avdg> its not the right time to do, since we can build many tracks without having to move the traffic
18:52:13  <Sylf_mobile> open an unbalanced 4th line station input?
18:53:04  <PublicServer> <Djarshi> Yes, and i was thinking it is ok, since the station not overfull, so you will not introduce jamming at station exit
18:56:03  <PublicServer> <greenlion> did I broke smth at grain drop 01?
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18:58:07  <TheRisen> !password
18:58:07  <PublicServer> TheRisen: rooked
18:58:09  <TheRisen> hi
18:58:22  <PublicServer> *** TheRisen joined the game
18:59:45  <PublicServer> ***  made screenshot at 0000E5E9:
19:14:45  <PublicServer> ***  made screenshot at 0002F5CB:
19:29:46  <PublicServer> ***  made screenshot at 000321DD:
19:36:23  <PublicServer> <Djarshi> Ok, done
19:37:02  <PublicServer> *** Intexon joined the game
19:37:03  <PublicServer> <Intexon> hi
19:37:09  <PublicServer> <TheRisen> hey
19:37:33  <PublicServer> <Djarshi> eya
19:42:02  <PublicServer> <Djarshi> greenlion, it's mirrored abit, but it's working :)
19:42:14  <PublicServer> <greenlion> great :)
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19:44:46  <PublicServer> ***  made screenshot at 0001FDC4:
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19:45:19  <bmarky> hi
19:45:24  <bmarky> !password
19:45:24  <PublicServer> bmarky: reigns
19:46:02  <PublicServer> *** bmarky joined the game
19:46:18  <PublicServer> <bmarky> hi
19:46:22  <PublicServer> <Djarshi> eya
19:46:30  <PublicServer> <Intexon> hello
19:46:34  <PublicServer> <avdg> hi
19:46:38  <PublicServer> <TheRisen> anyone wnats to do some work?
19:46:52  <PublicServer> <TheRisen> i started a 4th alne in the northern part
19:46:58  <PublicServer> <TheRisen> lane*
19:47:02  <Sylf_mobile> you should convert those 3-line X on LS02 to 2-lines
19:47:14  <PublicServer> <avdg> 5th lane?
19:47:33  <PublicServer> <avdg> @ !here
19:48:04  <PublicServer> <greenlion> oh, yeah, true. Djarshi, convert X'es
19:48:27  <PublicServer> <greenlion> nah, not 5th lane. yet :)
19:48:33  <PublicServer> <TheRisen> pff
19:48:40  <PublicServer> <TheRisen> overlooked this poor beginning
19:48:46  <Djarshi> ok, to small x-es?
19:48:58  <Djarshi> i will do that later, i need to go afk for a bit.
19:49:19  <PublicServer> *** Djarshi has joined spectators
19:49:22  <Djarshi> bbl
19:51:52  <Sylf_mobile> TheRisen, change the cyclicish to 2 terminals and eliminate the big curves
19:52:23  <Sylf_mobile> it'll give you more space to work on the hub
19:55:42  <PublicServer> *** Uristqwerty has left the game (connection lost)
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19:59:46  <PublicServer> ***  made screenshot at 000053B9:
20:00:33  <PublicServer> <TheRisen> merging these 4 lanes
20:00:57  <PublicServer> <greenlion> TheRisen: ah, ok then
20:08:18  <PublicServer> <greenlion> TheRisen: did you connected 4th line?
20:08:40  <PublicServer> <TheRisen> yes i did
20:09:34  <PublicServer> <TheRisen> next big thing is the northern hub
20:10:58  <PublicServer> <greenlion> TheRisen: trains cannot reach south transfer from it
20:11:46  <PublicServer> <greenlion> ah, nvm. they don't want there
20:14:06  <PublicServer> <TheRisen> hmm
20:14:12  <PublicServer> <TheRisen> FUCK IT
20:14:26  <PublicServer> <greenlion> lost trains, here
20:14:46  <PublicServer> ***  made screenshot at 0000ED00:
20:15:22  <PublicServer> <TheRisen> stupid presig solution
20:15:31  <PublicServer> <greenlion> that's stupid lost trains
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20:24:00  <PublicServer> *** Djarshi has joined company #1
20:24:04  <PublicServer> <Djarshi> rehi
20:26:06  <PublicServer> <Djarshi> some advice needed @ !here. I want to add 4th line, but need some advice on plan.
20:27:36  <PublicServer> <TheRisen> hmm
20:27:44  <PublicServer> <Djarshi> Can do make completely new hub, with 4 lines, and then slowly connect over, or keep hub and add to it...
20:27:59  <PublicServer> <greenlion> Djarshi: at grain drop 1 I just added 4th line for all splitters
20:28:02  <PublicServer> <Djarshi> because, trains are from station making a turn, and to the east the ML is going southwards ayway
20:28:50  <PublicServer> <Djarshi> will check, greenlion
20:29:14  <PublicServer> <greenlion> it had basically the same design
20:29:20  <PublicServer> <Djarshi> I see it
20:29:34  <PublicServer> <Djarshi> incoming lines u mean?
20:29:44  <PublicServer> <greenlion> all
20:29:47  <PublicServer> ***  made screenshot at 00003245:
20:30:55  <PublicServer> <Djarshi> You mean, where station Wintfield is.
20:31:00  <PublicServer> <Djarshi> wa looking at station itself
20:31:07  <PublicServer> <greenlion> yeah
20:31:22  <PublicServer> <Djarshi> Such a hub, i can make :)
20:31:32  <PublicServer> <greenlion> :)
20:31:52  <PublicServer> <Djarshi> but, a migration plan without jammig everything can be somewhat tricky :p
20:32:23  <PublicServer> <Djarshi> Therefore i had an idea, make a separate bug much alike the graindrop 1 one, then slowly connect all lines.
20:32:29  <PublicServer> <greenlion> well, I've extended it gradually to make room
20:33:01  <PublicServer> <Djarshi> yeh that was the other one
20:33:12  <PublicServer> <Djarshi> will do that, in small phases
20:33:31  <PublicServer> <TheRisen> well, start then
20:33:43  <PublicServer> <Djarshi> roger
20:33:46  <PublicServer> <TheRisen> :)
20:43:11  <PublicServer> <avdg> whops, compiling and playing openttd isn't a good combination at all
20:43:17  <PublicServer> <Djarshi> lol
20:43:49  <Djarshi> @gap 8
20:43:49  <Webster> Djarshi: For Trainlength of 8: <= 14 needs 2, 15 - 24 needs 3, 25 - 34 needs 4.
20:44:02  <PublicServer> <avdg> <3 lagg
20:44:03  <Djarshi> @CL
20:44:22  <PublicServer> <avdg> jumping trains :p
20:44:47  <PublicServer> ***  made screenshot at 0001041C:
20:45:39  <PublicServer> <Djarshi> ok, our ml trainsare TL8 so, what is the CL then?
20:46:06  <PublicServer> <greenlion> it's in plan - CL7 at diagonal, 6 straight
20:46:15  <PublicServer> <avdg> :) done and no disconnect
20:46:33  <PublicServer> <greenlion> Djarshi: read !! NETWORK PLAN !! :)
20:46:47  <PublicServer> <Djarshi> i have a 6   !here
20:46:51  <PublicServer> <Djarshi> \
20:46:53  <PublicServer> <avdg> friendly scream, <3
20:46:59  <PublicServer> <Djarshi> :)
20:47:17  <PublicServer> <greenlion> Djarshi: make it 7 then :)
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20:57:26  <PublicServer> *** bmarky has left the game (leaving)
20:57:34  <bmarky> gotta go byebye
20:57:37  *** bmarky has quit IRC
20:57:38  <PublicServer> <avdg> cya
20:57:40  <PublicServer> <TheRisen> bye
20:59:47  <PublicServer> ***  made screenshot at 0003C114:
21:02:40  <PublicServer> <avdg> anyone still busy at project ml 4?
21:02:50  <PublicServer> <greenlion> yep
21:03:13  <PublicServer> <TheRisen> i will do my hub tomorrow
21:03:26  <PublicServer> <avdg> hmm
21:03:34  <PublicServer> <avdg> any1 opened a part?
21:03:50  <PublicServer> <Djarshi> only a station, SW dropoff, corner
21:04:12  <PublicServer> <Djarshi> probably more, trying to do SW hub now
21:04:26  <PublicServer> <Djarshi> south of Grondonborough bay
21:04:52  <PublicServer> <greenlion> east hub, grain drop 2 are not started yet even
21:05:17  <PublicServer> <avdg> any reason to do that?
21:05:31  <PublicServer> <greenlion> what?
21:05:43  <PublicServer> <avdg> opening the ml
21:09:16  <PublicServer> <TheRisen> i am off
21:09:20  <PublicServer> <greenlion> dunno, ask TheRisen :)
21:09:22  <PublicServer> <TheRisen> gn8
21:09:25  <PublicServer> <greenlion> night
21:09:40  <PublicServer> <TheRisen> what's up?
21:10:09  <PublicServer> <greenlion> avdg asked what was reason to open ml
21:11:34  <PublicServer> *** TheRisen has left the game (connection lost)
21:11:38  <PublicServer> <Djarshi> you mean to the station?
21:11:48  *** TheRisen has quit IRC
21:12:08  <PublicServer> <avdg> no, the ml
21:12:27  *** smoovi has joined #openttdcoop
21:12:30  <PublicServer> <Djarshi> ok, i dont know that
21:13:03  <PublicServer> <avdg> hmm
21:13:12  <PublicServer> <avdg> looks like someone was confused
21:13:19  <PublicServer> <greenlion> um?
21:13:45  <PublicServer> <avdg> check the join under wintfield (station)
21:14:19  <PublicServer> <greenlion> ah, that is mine
21:14:26  <PublicServer> <greenlion> what's wrong with it?
21:14:44  <PublicServer> <avdg> the southern lane was closed, while it was in use
21:14:47  <PublicServer> ***  made screenshot at 00011DF0:
21:14:51  <PublicServer> <greenlion> nope
21:15:01  <PublicServer> <greenlion> I added north line
21:15:07  <PublicServer> <avdg> indeed
21:15:25  <PublicServer> <avdg> hmm
21:15:31  <PublicServer> <avdg> seems like there was a twist
21:15:39  <PublicServer> <greenlion> and near north hub new line is on other side
21:15:41  <PublicServer> <greenlion> yeah
21:17:03  <PublicServer> <avdg> well, anyway
21:17:10  <PublicServer> <avdg> not a big problem atm
21:17:21  <als> !password
21:17:21  <PublicServer> als: spokes
21:17:32  <PublicServer> <greenlion> I think we can connect everything
21:17:43  <PublicServer> *** als joined the game
21:17:48  <PublicServer> <avdg> not all bbh's are done
21:18:11  <PublicServer> <greenlion> well, 4th line will work like a shortcut then
21:18:13  <avdg> @tunnels 8
21:18:13  <Webster> avdg: For Trainlength of 8: <= 14 needs 2, 15 - 24 needs 3, 25 - 34 needs 4.
21:19:54  <PublicServer> <greenlion> Djarshi: you need to switch 3-line X'es to 2-line ones at station also
21:20:30  <PublicServer> <Djarshi> i know, i decided to do separate experiment first, (!experiment). to scared to touch ML and break it :)
21:21:04  <PublicServer> <avdg> load a game offline and break the network :D
21:21:10  <PublicServer> <Djarshi> :p
21:21:30  <PublicServer> <greenlion> and you have !CL
21:21:42  <PublicServer> <greenlion> avdg: offline you can't discuss it
21:22:08  <PublicServer> <avdg> set up a new server then :p
21:22:40  <PublicServer> <greenlion> avdg: what's the problem with experimenting outside of ML? :)
21:22:59  <PublicServer> <avdg> well, thats an other topic :p
21:23:19  <PublicServer> <avdg> nice
21:23:25  <PublicServer> <als> Good
21:24:29  <PublicServer> * avdg hates {connect me!} signs
21:24:57  <PublicServer> <greenlion> only one left :)
21:25:07  <PublicServer> <Djarshi> so what about !experiment ?
21:25:13  <PublicServer> <avdg> *farm vanishes*, connect what?
21:25:33  <PublicServer> <avdg> standard joiner :p
21:25:43  <PublicServer> <Djarshi> yes, missing prio's u mean? ;p
21:25:57  <PublicServer> <avdg> except that last join :p
21:26:07  <PublicServer> <avdg> which is indeed kinda strange
21:26:42  <PublicServer> <greenlion> other joins are not strange?
21:26:49  <PublicServer> <Djarshi> Hmm, i dont see the problem yet lol
21:26:51  <PublicServer> <avdg> hmm
21:27:01  <PublicServer> <avdg> yeah, they are strange too
21:27:13  <PublicServer> <avdg> you make it harder to construct the prio, indeed
21:27:36  <PublicServer> <avdg> :p
21:27:50  <PublicServer> <Djarshi> that helps
21:28:12  <PublicServer> <Djarshi> ok, now the strangeness of the standard joiner is gone ?
21:28:34  <PublicServer> <avdg> yeah, I think so
21:28:48  <PublicServer> <avdg> except if you plan desyncs at the front of the bridges
21:29:07  <PublicServer> <Djarshi> What do you mean by that?
21:29:17  <PublicServer> <avdg> poor Grondborough Bay South
21:29:31  <PublicServer> <avdg> check the farm southwest
21:29:41  <PublicServer> <greenlion> oops
21:29:47  <PublicServer> ***  made screenshot at 0003A177:
21:29:49  <PublicServer> <greenlion> what's with it? :)
21:29:52  <PublicServer> <avdg> jam
21:30:50  <PublicServer> <avdg> whats up with train 1179?
21:30:59  <PublicServer> <avdg> and others
21:31:13  <PublicServer> <avdg> they are from multiple farms
21:31:15  <PublicServer> <greenlion> lost
21:31:23  <PublicServer> <avdg> well, turn them
21:32:24  <PublicServer> <Djarshi> \
21:32:38  <PublicServer> <Djarshi> Who wants to help me make prio's at my !experiment location
21:32:49  <PublicServer> <avdg> just do it
21:33:48  <PublicServer> <avdg> lost?
21:34:43  <PublicServer> <greenlion> yeah, they weren't lost :)
21:36:07  <PublicServer> <greenlion> Djarshi: and what will you do with balancing?
21:36:24  <PublicServer> <Djarshi> you mean at my experiment?
21:36:34  <PublicServer> <greenlion> the hub
21:36:52  <PublicServer> <Djarshi> i have no clue, tryign to grasp these advanced concepts.
21:36:58  <PublicServer> <Djarshi> ideas are wecome :)
21:39:48  <PublicServer> <avdg> hmm
21:39:54  <PublicServer> <avdg> removed connections re-added?
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21:41:48  <bmarky> !password
21:41:48  <PublicServer> bmarky: jaunty
21:42:06  <PublicServer> *** bmarky joined the game
21:42:14  <PublicServer> <bmarky> hi
21:42:16  <PublicServer> <avdg> hi
21:43:33  <PublicServer> *** avdg has left the game (leaving)
21:44:48  <PublicServer> ***  made screenshot at 0003AD77:
21:45:52  <PublicServer> <Djarshi> Ok, made i prio, i think...
21:45:58  <PublicServer> <Djarshi> *A :)
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21:46:52  <PublicServer> <greenlion> it's wrong prio - it checks only one bridge of two
21:47:26  <PublicServer> <Djarshi> ok, so it needs to be even more wide, so i can make prio on either side?
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21:47:41  <PublicServer> <greenlion> no
21:48:44  <greenlion> check
21:49:31  <PublicServer> <Djarshi> ah cool, thanks, that was what i was lookin for :) was still reading the beginning :p
21:50:14  <PublicServer> <greenlion> and see for example !this1 and !this2
21:58:57  <PublicServer> *** greenlion has left the game (leaving)
21:59:17  <Ammler> that is one of the last good usage for pbs :-)
21:59:48  <PublicServer> ***  made screenshot at 0003A979:
22:03:56  <greenlion> what is first good usage of pbs? :)
22:04:24  <PublicServer> <Djarshi> Well a prio over bridge inso you dont need extra line
22:04:30  <PublicServer> <Djarshi> i think
22:04:56  <PublicServer> <Djarshi> "Using this mix of PBS and pre-signalling you can have prio over bridges without parallel tracks"
22:05:06  <PublicServer> <Djarshi> the link you gave me
22:06:02  <Ammler> well, before around 20k, pbs was also fine for stations
22:06:24  <Ammler> but the "lost trains" is broken now
22:06:48  <greenlion> lost trains are broken now with presignals too, I think
22:06:58  <Ammler> oh
22:07:15  <Ammler> I thought, that is a pbs issue
22:07:29  <Ammler> I didn't play for long anymore :-(
22:07:53  <greenlion> with presignals lost trains often hard lock the station (in this game at least)
22:11:03  <Ammler> ah, I see, with pbs this didn't happen until around r19k
22:14:48  <PublicServer> ***  made screenshot at 0003A97E:
22:19:07  <Sylf_mobile> there's not gonna be any work left by the time i come home :p
22:21:00  <PublicServer> <Djarshi> green, what about this, i think i got one working now
22:21:32  <GhostlyDeath> Is the chat here echoed on the Public Server?
22:21:40  <PublicServer> <Djarshi> Yes
22:21:46  <GhostlyDeath> Scary
22:21:50  <PublicServer> <Djarshi> :p
22:22:00  <GhostlyDeath> I had an idea
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22:24:14  <greenlion> Djarshi, the one is on screenshot does not look right :)
22:24:17  <greenlion> !screen
22:24:17  <PublicServer> *** greenlion liked to make screenshot of last action, but nobody was working since. (
22:25:10  <PublicServer> <Djarshi> Blegh
22:25:30  <PublicServer> <Djarshi> Gonna study on wiki :-p
22:27:28  <PublicServer> <Djarshi> Well, had some thoughts about moving that hub (SW) to the location of !experiment, since the re is slightly more room (farm, town, othertracks)... but the signalling stuff is just a bit too much for me :p
22:27:36  <PublicServer> <Djarshi> for now at least
22:29:48  <PublicServer> ***  made screenshot at 0003A776:
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22:36:08  <PublicServer> <Djarshi> im off nn all
22:36:42  <PublicServer> *** Djarshi has left the game (connection lost)
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22:37:54  <PublicServer> *** bmarky has left the game (connection lost)
22:37:54  <PublicServer> *** Game paused (number of players)
22:44:49  <PublicServer> ***  made screenshot at 0003BD8D:
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23:17:17  <kais58> !password
23:17:17  <PublicServer> kais58: jotted
23:20:25  <PublicServer> *** als has left the game (leaving)
23:22:00  <uliko> Who is stuck on connecting?
23:22:05  <PublicServer> *** uliko has left the game (connection lost)
23:22:14  <kais58> me
23:22:21  <PublicServer> *** Player has left the game (connection lost)
23:22:52  <kais58> !password
23:22:52  <PublicServer> kais58: jotted
23:23:09  <PublicServer> *** kais58 has left the game (connection lost)
23:23:13  <PublicServer> *** uliko has left the game (connection lost)
23:23:13  <PublicServer> *** Game still paused (number of players)
23:23:23  <PublicServer> *** Game still paused (number of players)
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23:31:45  <PublicServer> *** Game still paused (number of players)
23:31:45  <PublicServer> *** Game unpaused (number of players)
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23:32:07  <PublicServer> <uliko> Evening
23:32:18  <PublicServer> <Sylf> evening
23:32:25  <PublicServer> <Sylf> are you doing the north hub?
23:32:33  <PublicServer> <Sylf> south*
23:32:41  <PublicServer> <uliko> Just doing that quick connection
23:32:59  <PublicServer> <uliko> Not going to do some serious work on it just yet
23:33:11  <PublicServer> <Sylf> I don't think that one needs any serious work
23:33:27  <PublicServer> <uliko> Perhaps not
23:33:38  <PublicServer> <Sylf> I want to do southwest one
23:33:48  <PublicServer> <Sylf> LS 02 exit
23:34:09  <PublicServer> <uliko> Go for it
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23:34:29  <PublicServer> <uliko> Bah I hate long trains
23:37:19  <PublicServer> <Sylf> as a warm up, I completely destroyed the cyclic in the north :/
23:37:29  <PublicServer> <Sylf> that should give more room for the northern hub
23:37:29  <PublicServer> <uliko> ?
23:38:03  <PublicServer> <uliko> Oh, that stupid station
23:38:05  <PublicServer> <Sylf> Lenbourne North/Heights had funky station layout
23:38:28  <PublicServer> <Sylf> now it's a boring terminus
23:38:42  <PublicServer> <uliko> That takes up 10% of the space
23:39:23  <PublicServer> <Sylf> all right... I already had a pretty good idea what to do with this SW hub
23:39:59  <PublicServer> <uliko> :)
23:44:49  <PublicServer> ***  made screenshot at 000349AF:
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23:56:00  <PublicServer> <Sylf> so hard to work with trains constantly running on the tracks I'm working on >_<
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23:56:17  <PublicServer> <avdg> detour them
23:58:02  <bmarky> !password
23:58:02  <PublicServer> bmarky: sifted
23:58:17  <PublicServer> *** bmarky joined the game
23:58:22  <PublicServer> <Sylf> heya
23:58:30  <PublicServer> <bmarky> hi .:)
23:59:49  <PublicServer> ***  made screenshot at 00038192:

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