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To 4bet or flat?

Beebs Posts: 44Subscriber
2/3 600 cap. 710 effective. Game is playing loose especially pre flop. Not many 3bet pots.

V1 is a good winning player able to mix it up and can recognize opponents hand ranges. Is able to put you in tough spots.
V2 is probably a small losing player. Has good card sense but is way to wide pre flop. Will defend almost 100% of opens to 3bets. Haven’t seen him 3bet light tonight but likes to squeeze from the straddle very wide.

V1 makes it 15 UTG. Loose rec and tight rec both call. V2 makes it $75 from hijack. I’m in cutoff with Ac Ks.

Do we we 4 bet or flat? If we flat what should we do facing a 4bet. If we 4bet what size do you like?


  • PiggyPiggy Posts: 135Subscriber
    edited June 8
    I’d rather 4b as a semibluff with all the dead money. AKo likes fewer opponents and we are happy if he folds QQ-TT.
    by 1CycleV
  • PokerShaman Posts: 60Subscriber
    If we flat, then (unless someone 4-bets) we are going to see a flop. If we 4-bet ourselves, there is a chance that everyone else will fold, and it is rather more likely that if we do see a flop it will be heads-up.

    Think for a moment: what would we flat here? Anything at all?

    I am rather more likely to consider flatting with suited AK than offsuit. With offsuit cards there is rather less postflop playability, and so there is more imperative, if we play at all, to take down the pot here and now; and if we can't do that, at least get the pot heads-up.

    We block both AA and KK, cutting half the number of combos of those hands any villain might have, and increases the likelihood that we would get a fold (compared to if we held, say, QQ).

    You say the villain calls too many 3-bets. What do you know about their own 3-betting range, apart from it being wide from a straddle in squeeze spots? That is the critical judgment here.

    If their 3-betting range is really tight, like {KK+, AKs, AKo}, then maybe we should be considering folding, rather than flatting or 4-betting. If their range is sufficiently wide, then we can 4-bet/call. (The only time we should be folding to a 5-bet is if we believe their 5-betting range is just {AA}.) How wide is "sufficiently wide"? play around with Flopzilla to find out.

    Bottom line: I do not think our choice is between 4-betting and flatting; I think it is between 4-betting and folding.
    by 1CycleV
  • CycleV Posts: 970Subscriber
    Against anybody that could possibly be too wide (or actually 3betting a correct range, which we are still ahead of), I'm making it 200 to go. I'd expect to get folds from almost everything except the tippity top of his range.

    Good comments above as well. Fold vs nits is probably fine, but otherwise we can pick up a bunch of pesos with a 4!.
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