Friday, 19 October 2012

with, regretful


As for the voiced [ð] in this word,




Finally I felt I must chip in:







  1. Is there any research on the pronunciation of the word in Ireland? My impression is that the final consonant is voiceless there as it is in Scotland.

  2. Language Log doesn't seem to deal much in phonetics or phonology and some of its contributors quite possibly have never consulted pronunciation dictionaries (while making frequent use of online tools such as Google's Ngram Viewer). It's a shame because the pronunciation surveys in the LPD give some really interesting overviews of UK/US and generational differences in pronunciation.

    Jongseong Park

  3. Certainly where I come from in Tyrone, with has [θ], but can also be [wə] or [we(:)], presumably of Scots origin. Final [h] is also just about possible I think, including in without

    1. Same in Derry: wɪθ~wəθ or ~we.

      Can't say I've noticed the form with h but I'd say that's underlyingly wɪθ, since θ is regularly replaced with h in N.I. (and Scotland).

      So the voiceless variety seems to be the norm in N.I. If the underlying form were wɪð you'd get l instead, as intervocalic ð often surfaces as l.

      piː mæk ənɛnə

  4. Jack Windsor Lewis says:
    Like your first commenter I think of /-θ/ as the Irish norm.
    I shd say that in a relaxed casual style you may get /wɪ/ from some GB speakers tho I /kspek/ you won' a`gree /wɪ mi/. That's what I'd call a weakform unlike /wɪ `ðɪs/ that I'd regard as merely an elision.

  5. In the west of Ireland I usually hear /wɪθ/ from local speakers, and occasionally /wɪt/ or /wɪ/.

  6. What do Australians and New Zealanders say? I mostly remember the weak form(s) from the southern hemisphere people, and it is really difficult to discern the final consonant (if present at all).

  7. Amy Stoller says:
    No th-fronting in New York, at least not that I know of. Possibly it has come in with recent immigrant groups and (for all I know) hip-hop influence. I have
    certainly never heard it at the end of a word like with. In a broad Noo Yawk accent, usually /t/ or /d/, often but not always dental.

    1. This comment has been removed by the author.

    2. Specifically, in the US, th-fronting is essentially exclusive to African-Americans.

  8. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

  9. There may be some regional variation within the United States. I once did an informal survey of American friends and relations and noticed a preference for /wɪð/ among people from the Northeast and Inland North, and for /wɪθ/ among people from the South and West. Many people also responded that they'd use /wɪð/ in weak position (e.g. "I went with him") and /wɪθ/ in strong position (e.g. "Who did you go with?"). There's probably a dissertation in here waiting for a graduate student in sociolinguistics to write it.

  10. I'm afraid I haven't got that book either, Prof Wells, and wonder if it covers the pronunciation of "though" with an unvoiced th? Peter Gibbs' BBC weather forecaster's idiosyncrasy?

  11. Ah, I persuaded my school to get LPD - but it took three years! Now that I'm an ex-university student I no longer have access to the same wonderful world of libraries that I was once privileged to have. But your wonderful blog makes your research and insights available to people like me, and my students too ... Thank you!