deb engagement
is a strange bird,
fluttering about,
wings flapping giddily
while soaring in the clouds
for quite a while

then you wake up and realize
your love is far
and no matter how you miss him,
he can't be there
just now

but he's perfect,
in every way,
the match i'd never find
-instead he sat beneath a tree
and grinned,
pen in hand,
hoping i would notice him
and smile-

the 2 years between now
and our wedding-march
between our hearts

but there's nothing better than
waking up
to find
the man you love
is no longer 900 miles away,
but in your room
with a smile and a rose
and the sweetest hello...

just... ::grins:: wow
gaudior is so
to find
and so
once found.

congratulations, deb.
Jon Well done you're dead 001006
splinken i think it gleams like polished bone, then congeals in the bottom of the bowl like hours-old grits.

hey now. i listened in high school english when we went over metaphors. hey now. hey now. those aren't metaphors, they're similies. i spelled that wrong. wait--one is a simile, the other is a something-else.

fuck this english language. fuck it with its socks on.
moonshine Lady of Shalott read in conjuction with stairway to heaven. 010126
kx21 The_Power_of_Creativity of SHIT engaged with the_Gene_of_Nothing of STAR... 010126
deb i'm not perfect
i wish i could say i was
but i'm not-
there are scars in me
so deep that they no longer
merely scratch the surface;
they have become canyons
upon my soul,
the acid river of self-pity
burning deeper with every moment-
i try to play it off
and say it doesn't matter anymore
but there are days
i don't want to get up,
i'm so absorbed in what was-
and this temper of mine,
um... ::laughs nervously::
yeah, it's a bomb just waiting to go off-
i wish i could be
someone else, sometimes,
just so i wouldn't have to
deal with all that goes along with
being me-

i'm so scared

there's so much
wrong with me; in me-
and you've seen it all,
and you still think
i'm perfect-
how, i'll never know
but it just makes me
love you all the more~
i'm not perfect,
but i know this:
i'm perfect for you
in the same way
you're perfect for me
peyton dear God Deb.. that's beautiful

I hope Rhin reads it.. she will know what I've been trying to tell her all along.. :)
dafremen As beautiful as that may have was deb, it goes a long way towards saying NOTHING.

No I mean it, that was a truly beautiful expression of devotion.

Unfortunately all that devotion and a quarter won't even get you the perfect peach cupcake or a newspaper.

You know what perfection is? Truly is? No matter WHO you are or where you're from. No matter if you're alone or with someone else. True perfection can be found right here, right now. Wait no NOW...damn missed it...ok NOW! Well hopefully you get the idea.

Why on earth would I say now is perfect?
Well because, man, perfection is a state in which no further improvements can be made.

Right here right now, that's as GOOD as it gets at this moment, period.

Go ahead, improve on now if you can, I DARE missed it again...NOW..crap ok...1, 2, keep missing it, ok NOW...grrrr
Db Heh heh. Yeah take that. 010312
dB to attain perfection, you must first cast aside your humanity. Then your mortality. Then your morality. them emotions. then all things physical, including your body. But even then you havn't even begun to scratch the surface.
To be human is to be flawed. Weak. Insubstantial, and because of that it is impossible to attain perfection.
twiggie the sweetest perfection... 010313
mikey to call my own... 010313
johnny west a butterfly with the face of a cow. 010313
nocturnal jesus christ, johnny! one of these days you're gonna make me pee on myself. then I'll be pissed! no pun intended. 010313
johnny west I honestly don't find myself funny most of the time. Funny. I guess I'm only funny when I'm not trying too hard. 010313
nocturnal and that is humour perfection. 010313
kx21 Practices make perfect?

Not really.

Just can't imagine you are practicing same old silly & stupid things again and again with absence of thought and awareness...

It's Perfection of practices...that make Perfect...
mikey learning from mistakes leads to perfection. 010313
dB No.

Learning from your mistakes means that you won't fuck up as much, or at least not in the same way.
It doesn't mean bollocks in the perfection stakes.
mikey well really there is no such thing as perfect. its a word made up by humans. we made it a word so therefore something has to be "perfect" i think not. everything is everchanging.

we base everything on words which WE made up as a description.
dB It is a word that is used to describe that which is exactly right. Like "This new key works perfectly." in that sense, perfection is an approriate term. The problem arises when you start to use the word to describe humans. 010313
Dafremen I hate to burst both of your bubbles, but I AM perfect. I perform the task of being me FLAWLESSLY. Do I make mistakes? Well yes, but none of them fall outside the requirements of being me.

In fact, since by definition I'm human and prone to error, I would be IMPERFECT if I DIDN'T make mistakes!!

Dafremen is SUPPOSED to make mistakes, without em, you wouldn't really have Dafremen wouldja?

Nope I'm Dafremen perfection personified, and I think if you look carefully, you'll realize that each and every one of you is the perfect you TOO.

Heheh kind of goes back to the perfection of right here,right now.
dB Ok, if you look at it from that perspective you are correct. But, as an outsider looking in, I only see a generalisation of humans as a whole. As a species, they are not perfect, but no species id. Humans however, could do much better as a society than they are at present. 010314
kx21 Given that your Mistakes / Errors are Mother of Perfection.

Who is your Father of perfection?
dB um... you? 010314
kx21 Your faith, morality? 010314
dB I have no faith, and only basic morals. They are not a crutch to me, unlike some people. 010314
kx21 Your Belief & Morality? 010314
kx21 Your Beliefs & Morality are Father of Perfection... 010314
kx21 An acid Test of Perfection:-

"do unto others as you would have done unto you"
dB In what way is that a test? It is not a trial or anything. It is merely an action, or lack of action depending on the situation.
It's not a test, it's a fucking rile.
kx21 Do Unto Others (DUO):-

The Universal social ethical practice for M_Religion?

Baha'i: "Desire not for anyone the things that ye would not desire for yourselves." Baha Ulla LXVI


Christianity: "Do for others what you want them to do for you." Matthew 7:12

Confucianism: "Do not unto others what you would not have them do unto you." Analects 15:23

Hinduism: "Never do to others what would pain thyself." Panchatantra 111.104

Islam: "Do unto all people as you would they should do unto you, and reject for others what you would reject for yourself." Mishkat-el-Masabih

Jainism: "In happiness and suffering, in joy and grief, we should regard all creatures as we regard our own self." Lord Mahavira, 6th Century BC

Judaism: "What is hateful to you do not to your neighbour. That is the entire law.." Talmud, Shabbat 314

Native American: "Respect for all life is the foundation." The Great Law of Peace

Sikhism: "Treat others as thou would be treated thyself." Adi Granth

Taoism: "Regard your neighbour's gain as your own gain and your neighbours loss as your own loss." T'ai Shang Kan Ying P'ien

Unitarian: "We affirm the inherent worth and dignity of every person, and the interdependent web of all existence..."

Zoroanastrianism: "That nature alone is good which refrains from doing unto another whatsoever is not good for itself." Dadistan-I-Dinik, 94:5

(Taken from Vocation For Justice: Autumn 1998 Volume 12 No 3)
kx21 Can you name anyone who managed to pass the DUO Test? 010314
DB But it has nothing to do with PERFECTION. Hello! Current topic! I think you may be after the ETHICS discussion.
You can do what you bloody like, but a human will NEVER be prefect. Even if it was attainable in spirit, they'll never be the perfect ORGANISM.
There are too many flaws in people for them to even cosider attempting to attain perfection.
Let's face it, the human race is flawed, weak, dumb, self-destructive, unimaginitive, and a whole lot of other things that I can't be bothered typing out. The question is not ethics or morals. It's physiology and phycology.
Dafremen Db, humans could NOT do better as a society than we are at the present.

For this is how we ARE as a society at the present. Which makes it the best that we can do at this time.

Now LATER we might do better, but at the present this is the best we can do.

(Remember the NOW thing? Heheheh)

P.S. Don't even ATTEMPT to answer kx's questions, it's a can of worms without end! : )
dB Dafremen you are right, and wrong. Society could do better NOW. It just doesn't want to. It'll take another thousand years before it get's the shit together that it should be doing now.
And kx21, well, sometimes informative, sometimes abstract, sometimes outright dumb, but you gotta hand it to him though. He never stops being a fountain of knowlege.
kx21 What is the Stupidest Q_As on Perfection?

What is the Smartest Q_As on
Dafremen Besides Db, the mediocrity of society only serves to bolster my apparent Perfection in comparison.

Oh thank you crappy society for being the backdrop upon which I can SHINE like a supernova!!!

P.S. I have a cat named si-si

P.P.S. I love you Si-si!

P.P.P.S. I don't REALLY have a cat named si-si, that's just something I tell people to impress them.
kx21 The_Power_of_Creativity of STAR engaged with the_Gene_of_Nothing of SHIT... 010317
TurtlePrincess constantly striving
constant strife
who told me I had to be Perfect?

I inch toward my goal biting and clawing
but for each inch I travel
it travels miles further

The quest for perfection is a journey
with no destination.
distorted tendencies Is not this perfection? This web of words all connected together? This empty yet full space? A place of sanctity in all possibility? If you couldn't be here at the end of the day throwing forth unsaid words, thoughts, emotions do you think they would imprison you? And if you were imprisoned, what would you do? Try to get out no less. Try to find a state of perfection that only you could possibly enjoy, hoping that other people would appreciate and enjoy it as well. (And they do, no less.) 010820
kx21 Ten_supreme_heart, the Spring of Perfection... 010820
kx21 Ten_supreme_hearts, the Spring of Perfection... 010820
Inanna Perfection is being in control of your dreams. 010820
pralines&cream is in the way you mouth your words,
in the dimples when you smile,
it fills your body when you flex.

Your perfection shakes me to my core,
so strong, it is.
duran blather here goes. 011119
Effingham Fish For the life of me, I could never get all those pieces in before the timer went. Stupid game! 020216
kx21 Intelligence = Rationality? 020217
blown cherry I should bloody well think not!
I'd like to consider myself as intelligent, but hardly as rational.
By no menas am I trying to imply that I am perfect, I'm so far away from that it's absurd, but if the two were equated I still do not believe there would exist perfection.

Take love (yes, please, take all I have and let me live in peace) for example. One cannot love rationally, it's an oxymoron. To be in love is to care for someone other than yourself beyond all rationality, to the point where you would sacrifice anything at all for them.
But to live intelligently without that passion could never be a perfect existence.
Never to experience what it is to be human.

Perhaps I misread what kx21 was saying. No matter how intelligent one thinks one is, there is no perfect way of assuring you will be fully understood when expressing oneself in two words and an operator.


"If you can't see how ultimately flawed and inferior I am then
all the words I have won't change your mind."

Maybe it's the layers of imperfection I'm drawn to, because every now and again you and all your failings cause all the pieces to fit inside my heart, and inside my head, and for one of those dafreman's moments that has already passed before you reach it perfection _does_ exist.

see self_denigration
hushed one who searches for perfection is fishing for infinity 020418
Hushed or chall i say, fishing_for_infinity 020418
Maggie i want everything to be perfect

someday i will show them how wrong they were in doubting me.

i will walk amongst angels, and create beauty all my own.

cause i will be the best i can be.

they will see
me he was perfect. perfect as a man could be at least. he was the best one for me and i keow it. i just dont know how i let him go. i screwed up the best thing in my life that i will never have again. boy was i an idiot 021221
sigma Perfection- to be perfect. To attain a state of perfect.

If I try so hard to be a good person, it must mean I am not innately good. The harder I try and fall from being good must mean than I am, instead, innately 'bad'. And if struggling to be good is such a struggle, is so difficult, is making me so unhappy, then I am simply meant to be a bad person.

Or I can just say it's impossible to be good, to be perfect. That seems too easy.
cantaloupe is divine To be perfect I think is not possible it flies from us when thought... for it only embraces an ideal that is as fragile as our own conception is. Will I ever achieve perfection? How could I ever tell that it is so? From our own instinctive human attributes...we are so limited--still we try--heroic then, we seek the impossible! 030627
User24 we always do, we never achieve perfection, but in trying, oh what imperfection we do achieve. 030627
S8N If we where perfect life would end-
If we where perfect than this huge experment would be over, but will we ever be 'perfect'
I know im not and the one who say they are are full of them selfes
see i am not perfect
metamantrg perfection is what we all want to see in others for knowone is perfect you nore I or anyone else so inwith we go forward in life acepting the good confronting the bad for thats all anyone can do

These thing we are challenged with ever day of our lives are what makes us
compationate people for everyone to see

What else can we do when your heart tell you one thing

your mind questions you is it playing tricks on you

NO its someone wanting perfection that know one is capeable of

I can acept everyone one know for to whom they are
xyz the most boring thing ever. 031103
celestias shadow It's an ideal, a concept conceived during a night full of hot terror. 'If only life were perfect.' Then what? What standard of comparison would we have? There's no such thing as relative perfection. We'd be lost. 031211
zeke aesthetic?
zeke unintentional?
endless desire no. never.
Helicala A sick kind of sweetness. 040105
Mandida There is no such thing as perfection but it there was I know I'd be it,.... Laugh my fucking sexy ass off,... 040329
methinx How I met Tyler was I went to a nude beach. This was the very end of summer, and I was asleep. Tyler was naked and sweating, gritty with sand, his hair wet and stringy, hanging in his face.

Tyler had been around a long time before we met.


You wake up at the beach.

We were the only people on the beach.

With a stick, Tyler drew a straight line in the sand several feet away. Tyler went back to straighten the log by stamping around its base.

I was the only person watching this.

Tyler called over, "Do you know what time it is?"

I always where a watch.

"Do you know what time it is?"

I asked, where?

"Right here," Tyler said. "Right now."

It was 4:06 P.M.

After a while, Tyler sat cross-legged in the shadow of the standing logs. Tyler sat for a few minutes, got up and took a swim, pulled on a T-shirt and a pair of sweatpants, and started to leave. I had to ask.

I had to know what Tyler was doing while I was asleep.

I asked Tyler if he was an artist.

Tyler shrugged and showed me how the five standing logs were wider at the base. Tyler showed me the line he'd drawn in the sand, and how he'd use the line to guage the shadow cast by the log.

Sometimes, you wake up and you have to ask where you are.


You wake up, and you're nowhere.


You wake up, and that's enough.
ofsuch one day perfection will be accomplished.
until then i will work hard to get there.
puredream The unbelievable moments when the universe looks down upon you and tells you that everything is right. In that exact moment you are holding forever, breathing forever... feeling forever. I have never felt love so immensely as I did in those beautiful moments of perfection. In your hand. In your eyes. In your soul. In the universe. I have never loved quite like this, never felt quite like this. You and I were meant to be. This little hint of perfection... it's the universes way of telling us... to remain hand in hand. Forever. Always. 040717
hsg patient intense action leads you there. 040721
kookaburra is only perfection until you find something better... 040721
Syrope every quote suddenly applies... 040722
pete we sat there beside the river, where there once was a beach before the marsh grew over the sands, just talking about the most personal things, things that we had never shared with anyone before, both perfectly comfortable in this friendship that was growing deeper with every probe into the others mind, every story i told, every song she sung... 040722
djstar the perfection of a woman's body...
jesus, you are the epitome of beauty.
Sleeping, you awake my
inner-most desires.
The skin of your neck
throbbing to the beat
of your own heart.
I look at a picture of us kissing
when we 1st fell in love
and I wish
that time-travel existed...
How can * Q_As *

a chaotic gift to idealism metaphorically speaking...
(seriously? yes.)
when i was a child, i could never stay in my crib. i walked the world and put everything in my mouth. most of these things were a horrid taste, some were good, and some were a taste of pure nirvana. my crib was my home, my place of comfort, the one place i knew would always exist for me, and i could always return at any given moment with the slightest of cries. it was the home of perfection. without knowing its substance, origin, reasoning for its existence, the reasons why it felt so perfect and secure, or the reason why it was brought into my life... it just was my home of perfection. no matter how many times it fell and broke my skin, no matter how many times i lost where it was put.
it had grown into my perfect place yet, my mind still roams and my body still travels... tasting what the world has to offer... until one day i will retire, being fully aware of the heaven and hell the world has to offer. i will return to my perfect place.
we all travel this route at some point in our lives. most of us never meeting the end of this route at the same time. some of us will wait for each other and some of us will make new paths.
I have patience.. that of which the gods would envy.....
looking back at you following me... i am you and what i see is me.
please catch up. it gets so lonely here.
Syrope i'm disappointed

white vinegar made the glass less cloudy, but not sparkling. far from sparkling.
dschip Who needs it 050619
Lemon_Soda The problem with being with someone who thinks they are the opitamy(sp?) of perfection is...your not.

Invariably they will become disgusted with you, blame you for your inferiority, and skirt you like a piece of rubbish.
Christ without the Cross I am perfect although I myself see it that way. I like the whole now thing Dafreman. Time does not exist. In the eternal moment of now we are getting exactly what we have chosen and in this sense we have obtained perfection, the perfect answer to our prayers. If you feel this isn't true, that you aren't getting what you want add some positivity to the equation that is your lives. you will realize that your negaitvity draws negative things to you.

Try to see the perfection. You will enjoy life more.
Question man Perfection is nothing more than a waste of life. People miss out on all the fun trying to be perfect. 070807
Question man Nature_itself_is_the_only_perfection 070807
backflip every mistake you make is a part of your perfection, where does guilt lie now then? scratch it out of the dictionary its a useless word. 070808
Question man I can agree to that. 070809
. good. 070809
fishawk is growth. Is never complete. Is always readjusting and accepting. Really unconditionally loving yourself and anyone else. Is not real, but an ever changing point on the horizon. The setting sun that will rise again and one day, stop. 150113
what's it to you?
who go