2008.08.27 13:00 - GS, BS and ES - and sartorial elegance

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     The guardian for this session was Quilty Bookmite. The comments are his.

    Wol Euler: hello Quilty, Adams
    Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
    Adams Rubble: Hello Wol. Quilty, Gaya :)
    Quilty Bookmite: Hi everyone.
    Quilty Bookmite: Does anyone have anything that they want to discuss?
    Gaya Ethaniel zooms on Adams... 'looking good'
    Quilty Bookmite: Indeed. Nice outfit. :-)
    Adams Rubble: TY Gaya :)
    Adams Rubble: and Quilty :)
    Wol Euler: mmhmm, very nice.
    Adams Rubble: and Wol :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: Have you changed your shape Adams? Your face looks slightly different
    Adams Rubble: No, just my hair
    Wol Euler: new bits, haven't worn them before.
    Fael arrives and isn;t accompanied by her usual school of fish.
    Adams Rubble: Hello Fael :)
    Faenik is a hairy black ball with eyes and ears.
    Wol Euler: hello fael
    Quilty Bookmite: Hi Fael.
    Fael Illyar: Hi Adams, Wol, Gaya, Quilty :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
    Quilty Bookmite: No fish todau Fael. :-)
    The fish appear. :-)
    Wol Euler: ah :-)
    Quilty Bookmite: Ah.
    Adams Rubble: Gee thanks Quilty
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Quilty Bookmite: Any time. :-)
    Wol Euler: really?
    Fael Illyar: Wol, you look a bit different from usual :)
    Wol Euler reaches for a mirror.
    Gaya Ethaniel zooms on Wol
    Quilty Bookmite: Your arms and legs look a bit short.
    Fael Illyar was wondering if that's SL bugging or if your legs have really shrunk.
    Fael Illyar: oh yes, arms too :)
    Wol Euler: no, it's real. I made a zero-height av for a "size event"
    Wol Euler: height, arm length, leg length all 0.
    Wol Euler: th rest is pretty much my usual shape, just tuned to suit the height better.
    Quilty Bookmite: I see. :-)
    Fael Illyar: :)
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles
    Wol Euler: but, um, don't let me hold us back from PaB matters.
    Quilty Bookmite: I feel like I should make some change to myself to fit in. :-)
    Quilty Bookmite: But I won't for now. :-)
    Faenik is a hairy black ball with eyes and ears.
    Fael brings up a core subject.
    Fael Illyar: Ok, let's talk about the difference between YS,ES and BS (and GS?)
    Quilty Bookmite: Sure.
    Wol Euler: "God Seeing"?
    Gaya Ethaniel nods 'ok'
    Adams Rubble: Why the parentheses?
    Quilty Bookmite: What would you like to say about it Fael?
    Fael Illyar: more like ask, what do you think is the difference :)
    We have a new arrival. Later in the talk the new arrival was asked if they wanted their words recorded on this blog. They didn't, so their name and words have been commented out. I have tried to keep the structure of the conversation as much as possible.
    Wol Euler: hello *****, come and join us.
    Quilty Bookmite: Hi *****.
    Fael Illyar: Hi *****
    Adams Rubble: Hello *****
    Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
    Quilty Bookmite: Have you been to these meetings before *****?
    Fael Illyar: Adams the parentheses because I'm wondering if it needs to be separated from BS at all :)
    Quilty Bookmite: This is the meeting of a group called Play As Being. Anyone is welcome.
    Adams Rubble: Fael, it helps some people who can relate to what God is but not what Being is
    Quilty Bookmite: We meet 4 times a day. 1 a.m, 7 a.m., 1 p.m. and 7 p.m. PDT
    Adams Rubble: The results are very different
    Quilty Bookmite: If you'd like to read about what PaB is, take a look at this website: http://playasbeing.wik.is/
    Quilty Bookmite: Or, if you'd prefer we can explain it to you. :-)
    Fael Illyar: depends on your understanding of God or Being I suppose.
    Adams Rubble: Yes Fael
    Quilty Bookmite: By the way *****, fish are not anything to do with PaB. :-)
    Wol Euler: lol
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles
    Fael Illyar: They aren't? I thought the go right in with the Play aspect :P
    Adams Rubble: Something is fishy about this group :)
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles
    Quilty Bookmite: I guess they do Fael, but they aren't essential. :-)
    Gaya Ethaniel: fishy = unique
    Quilty Bookmite: No need to carp on abut it Adams. :-)
    Adams Rubble: Unless you do your nine seconds in a tank
    Gaya Ethaniel laughs
    Fael Illyar: It's the fishy sort of humour we're bubbling up here :P
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles
    Adams Rubble: Looking into the depths...
    Quilty Bookmite: Anyway *****, PaB is a sort of experiment. Basically the idea is to "stop" for 9 seconds every 15 minutes.
    Quilty Bookmite: Sorry to interrupt Fael. Thought I should at least give a basic explaination.
    Adams Rubble wonders if the fish help feed Faenik
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles
    Gaya Ethaniel thanks Quilty
    Quilty Bookmite: I have been neglecting my guardianly duties. :-)
    Adams Rubble: Yes Quilty
    Fael Illyar: no problem :)
    Adams Rubble: No, not neglecting, yes to basic explanation
    Faenik eyes the fish hungrily for a while ... then sighs deeply.
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles
    Back to the subject...
    Adams Rubble: What would you like to know from us exactly, fael?
    Fael Illyar: Well, I was hoping someone would have a description of the difference :)
    Adams Rubble: Well the you seeing is what we see now
    Faenik is a hairy black ball with eyes and ears.
    Adams Rubble: The ES enlightened seeing, or ahat we may see once we get to where we think we would like to be, imagines what we would like to be seeing
    Adams Rubble: *what
    Wol Euler counds the levels of indirection in that...
    Adams Rubble: Pema has described Bing as a bigger concept than God
    Adams Rubble: counds?
    Quilty Bookmite: Ah, one more point *****. These conversations are recorded in the online Wiki I sent you. Do you have any objection to your words going on the internet?
    Wol Euler: *counts
    Adams Rubble: ah
    Wol Euler: (sorry)
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Quilty Bookmite: Bing? Crosby? i never rated him that much. :-)
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles
    Adams Rubble: haha
    Wol Euler: heheheheh
    Adams Rubble: Being
    Wol Euler: ha, I read right past that.
    Quilty Bookmite: I gues, as Fael said, it depends on how you view God.
    Adams Rubble: But GS helps some of us get started
    Adams Rubble: I often think of BS/GS which touches on each
    Adams Rubble: God Seeing
    A discourse on "God Seeing" and "Being Seeing"...
    Adams Rubble: *****, these are exercises to help us see
    Quilty Bookmite: I think if you don;t believe in God then you should ignore GS.
    Adams Rubble: We look at what we see and then imagine what Being Sees or God Sees
    Adams Rubble: Yes Quilty. Twould be a very useless exercise :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: Perhaps not Quilty. I see 'God' as 'Being'
    Faenik: why not?
    Adams Rubble: Unless you have been brought up with God and the concept has a meaning to you
    Quilty Bookmite: Then you believe in God Gaya?
    Adams Rubble: Or as Wol says:)
    Adams Rubble: Sorry as Gaya says :)
    Adams Rubble: Sorry Gaya
    Gaya Ethaniel: 'God' I meant isn't strictly the Christian God...
    Fael Illyar: that's just it ... if it's a concept ... it's already missing the mark :)
    Quilty Bookmite: Of course.
    Adams Rubble: Yes Gaya
    Adams Rubble: Only for Christians
    Gaya Ethaniel: Also not really in any religious sense...
    Adams Rubble: that is the Christian God is only for Christians :)
    Quilty Bookmite: I certainly see the two as the same thing and also as what is sometimes called the Cosmic Buddha.
    Adams Rubble: Yes, Gaya, exactly
    Adams Rubble: Yes Quilty
    Gaya Ethaniel: Until I came to PaB, used to call 'Being' 'God'
    Gaya Ethaniel: Just words...
    Quilty Bookmite: Yes. Labels. :-)
    Gaya Ethaniel: So for me, GS = BS, which is diff from how Adams started on GS
    Adams Rubble sees a difference but cannot explain it and accepts that they are the same for many
    Quilty Bookmite: So we have a fair idea of what BS or GS is?
    Faenik: ah :)
    Wol Euler agrees with Adams.
    Gaya Ethaniel: difference between Adams?
    Quilty Bookmite: GS and BS.
    Adams Rubble: Well Dubrovna can speak for Dubrovna but I am here
    Gaya Ethaniel: Perhaps GS means something diff to each of us?
    Adams Rubble: Yes Gaya, it very well might
    Quilty Bookmite: As does BS I suspect. :-)
    Fael Illyar: most definitely :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: BS too Quilty?
    Adams Rubble: I think so
    Quilty Bookmite: Well, we may each have a different idea of what Being is.
    Gaya Ethaniel: Or experience of BS is different?
    Quilty Bookmite: And perhaps none of those ideas quite hits the mark. :-)
    Wol Euler: both are quite likely to be different, I think
    Gaya Ethaniel: Perhaps...
    Fael Illyar: Like a fractal looks different depending on which part you look at, we also perceive Being differently because we do not all see the same part.
    Quilty Bookmite: Yes Fael.
    Adams Rubble: Also for me, my understanding of Being is constantly changing
    Quilty Bookmite: Maybe we even see Being as something different at different times.
    Quilty Bookmite: :-)
    Wol Euler: probably only a difference of degree, though, I expect that our conceptions would widely overlap.
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Adams Rubble: Yes Wol
    Wol Euler: (RL, brb)
    Gaya Ethaniel: k
    Faenik: ah :)
    Disjointed part where we talk to our newcomer...
    Quilty Bookmite: *****, are you OK with your words going on an online blog?
    Quilty Bookmite: OK. :-)
    Quilty Bookmite: No problem. Do you have any questions? This must seem quite strange.
    Adams Rubble was thinking today how looking back over the logs helps her to watch her mind at work
    Adams Rubble: just watch her mind (forget the work part) :)
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles
    Adams Rubble: If Pema was here, he'd say, take your time, no worries ***** :)
    Quilty Bookmite: Yes. Some of what is being said here is the result of some new ideas that have come up recently about the experiment.
    Quilty Bookmite: Absolutely Adams.
    Fael Illyar initially found Being an interesting mystery.
    Quilty Bookmite: The basic practice is the 9 seconds pause. There are a couple of enhancements concerning what you do in that 9 seconds pause.
    Gaya Ethaniel was confused most of time initially but was drawn back to PaB time aftertime
    Adams Rubble is often still confused
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles
    Gaya Ethaniel has been confused most of time but drawn back to PaB time after time*
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Quilty Bookmite: Also, note that this isn't a religious practice although many of us have our own religious practice.
    Adams Rubble: No fish worshippers though
    Quilty Bookmite: I'm a Cod worshipper myself.
    Faenik: why not?
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: Why not <smile>
    Adams Rubble: We have a Cape for you
    Wol Euler: once again Faenik asks the right question.
    Quilty Bookmite: :-)
    Faenik is a hairy black ball with eyes and ears.
    Quilty Bookmite: OK *****. I will edit your words out of the log.
    Adams Rubble: Bye ***** :)
    Quilty Bookmite: NP. Bye *****.
    Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
    Wol Euler: bye, take care
    Gaya Ethaniel: Hope to see you again *****
    Fael Illyar: Bye ***** :)
    Adams Rubble wonders if ***** did not like the fish smell
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles
    Wol Euler: perhaps she was hungry
    Fael Illyar: too many fish jokes?
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles
    Fael Illyar: umm... fishy jokes
    Quilty Bookmite: Ah. :-)
    Gaya Ethaniel: Both works
    Adams Rubble thinks this will a hard editing job
    Well, it wasn't easy. :-)
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles
    Quilty Bookmite: Yeah.
    Adams Rubble: You could just say someone was here
    Quilty Bookmite: Still, she didn;t say much.
    Quilty Bookmite: Yes.
    Adams Rubble: no but we did to her
    Quilty Bookmite: Yes.
    Fael Illyar: well, you could just change her name :P
    Adams Rubble: Jane Doe
    Quilty Bookmite: Well, I'll put in an explanation for the gaps.
    Wol Euler: A.N. Other
    Faenik: indeed?
    Gaya Ethaniel Googles 'Jane Doe'
    Wol Euler: there's no user with that name, so it would be good.
    Quilty Bookmite: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Doe
    Adams Rubble: Maybe it is a U.S. think. John Doe and Jane Doe are used in courts when a name is not used
    Adams Rubble: thing
    Quilty Bookmite: I think it is a US thing. I know of it but we don't use it in the UK.
    Gaya Ethaniel: Wiki - This practice is widely used in the United States and Canada, but is rare in other English-speaking countries (including England itself, from where it probably originates)
    Doing my duties as a guardian...
    Quilty Bookmite: Anyway, back to the subject...
    Quilty Bookmite: :-)
    Gaya Ethaniel: k
    Adams Rubble is the only 'yank' here
    Quilty Bookmite: We aven't touched on what ES is.
    Gaya Ethaniel: Dollar not 'yank' Adams <smile>
    Adams Rubble touched it
    Quilty Bookmite: Yes, it's the European hour. :-)
    Fael Illyar: well, almost :)
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles
    Quilty Bookmite: So what is ES?
    Adams Rubble: Somebody else want to give a stab?
    Fael Illyar: My current idea of what it is would be what you're seeing.
    Gaya Ethaniel: Pema Pera: So in ES there is a "be all you can be" and there are many many levels. You can do this for the rest of your life and discover new levels all the time. More and more subtle ways of noticing how there is some egg shell of the self left sticking to what you thought was BS. Being Seeing Gaya Ethaniel: So Pema in regards to E, really there isn't a being that is enlightened we could say? Pema Pera: That is correct Gaya. The whole notion of enlightenment is totally false. Absolutely speaking and yet can be very inspiring, relatively speaking Gaya Ethaniel: Wow... finally i think i understand what you meant Pema when you said the other day " 'fully enlightened' " Pema Pera: Paradox of paradoxes. Everything is fully enlightened as it is, already . . . "Reaching" enlightenment is totally impossible.
    Gaya Ethaniel: Sorry tad a long quote
    Adams Rubble: Pema used a different word in the Monday 13:00 log and I don;t remeber what it was
    Fael Illyar: as in, with YS, you'd have filters (judgements, opinions, etc) in place that dominate your seeing.
    Gaya Ethaniel nods
    Fael Illyar: BS would then be seeing without filters
    Adams Rubble: Yes, but different ones, Fael. It would help us see the filters
    Faenik: could be
    Quilty Bookmite: I had this question for Storm once but I would like to see if anyone else has an idea...
    Quilty Bookmite: How do you know what it feels like to be an enlightened being in order to imagine yourself as one?
    Adams Rubble: Quilty, that is why Pema has been qualifying this
    Wol Euler chuckles. That is good.
    Fael Illyar: no need to imagine. You already are, you only need to realize it.
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles
    Quilty Bookmite: Fair enough Fael, but how do you do that?
    Fael Illyar: Simple, stop believing you aren't :)
    This answer is so simple and to the point I'm a bit stunned by it.
    Quilty Bookmite: Hmmmmmmm
    Quilty Bookmite: I don't know what to say to that Fael. :-)
    Fael Illyar: note, don't believe you are, just stop beliving you aren't :)
    Even clearer!
    Quilty Bookmite: Very good. :-)
    Adams Rubble: When I have done these exercises I have felt that my imaginings were pretty lame and for that reason I do not like to do them. However, each time, I have gotten results mostly getting seeing beyond my "self" or the "filters" as Fae called them
    Adams Rubble: Fael
    Fael Illyar: the self is the collection of filters and perhaps something else too.
    Adams Rubble: yep
    Fael Illyar: which is why we talk about the self stepping out of the way.
    Faenik: why not?
    Quilty Bookmite: somehow the word "simple" doesn't seem to fit. :-)
    Quilty Bookmite: The self is not so easily moved out of the way.
    Fael Illyar: oh, it is simple but ... I never said doing it is that :P
    Gaya Ethaniel is tempted to paste another quote regarding 'arrogance and pride and confusion' re: BS
    Faenik: could be
    Quilty Bookmite: Go ahead Gaya.
    Fael Illyar: Yes, go ahead please :)
    Corvuscorva appears
    Fael Illyar: Hi Corvi :)
    Wol Euler: hi corvi
    Gaya Ethaniel: Pema Pera: But trying to embed the absolute in terms of the content of memory in the relative is the dangerous part. There is where arrogance and pride and confusion can easily come about. Gaya Ethaniel: So be aware of where we are and be responsive to each situation? Pema Pera: Yes, Gaya. And in case of doubt, leave it out (the absolute perspective) Sky Szimmer: Yes it is easy to get sucked into the arrogance, pride and confusion because we have a memory and an insight. Gaya Ethaniel: So an example for the dangerous situation could be clinging onto the experience of Being? Pema Pera: Sure, yes Pema Pera: Being sees a glimpse of Being, and then a moment later, the "I" says "hey, that's great, I just saw Being" -- and that's putting things on its head. But saying "wow, Being saw Being, how neat, I'd like to learn to step aside better and more often" -- that's perfect
    Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Hi all.
    Adams Rubble: Nisaragadatta said that we are looking for the person who was present at our birth and who will be there at our death
    Gaya Ethaniel: That's... a good one Adams

    At this point I lose connection and can't get back again. Adams sent me the rest of the log on which I won't comment. Thank you Adams!

    Adams Rubble: Hi Corvi :)
    Corvuscorva Nightfire smiles at Adams...Hi!
    Gaya Ethaniel: My music teacher said that we un-learn how to breath... differently from how we did as newborns
    Gaya Ethaniel was discussing spiritual aspects of breathing/singing
    Fael Illyar: for the longest time I just couldn't not control my breathing if I was paying attention to it :P
    Wol Euler nods. that was hard to learn, yes.
    Fael Illyar: I used to get scared I'd stop breathing if I stopped controlling it :P
    Adams Rubble: My local chat window has split. The tabs are no longer there. Is that a simple fix?
    Wol Euler: are they separate windows?
    Adams Rubble: yes
    Wol Euler: just drag them back into the main one and let go
    Wol Euler: IIRC
    Adams Rubble: hmmm. doesn;t seem to work
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: I think I fix mine by touching the little arrow in a box on the top ritght hand corner.
    Wol Euler: ah, no, use the left orange icon, at the top right
    Corvuscorva Nightfire nods.
    Gaya Ethaniel: Fael, don't follow... could you rephrase?
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: [14:01] Fael Illyar: I used to get scared I'd stop breathing if I stopped controlling it :P
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: I was interested in that too.
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles
    Fael Illyar: um... rephrase? I think it's all there just fine.
    Quilty Bookmite: Sorry, I crashed.
    Gaya Ethaniel: wb
    Faenik: ah :)
    Quilty Bookmite: TY
    Fael Illyar: wb Quilty
    Wol Euler: wb quilty
    Adams Rubble: wb Quilty
    Gaya Ethaniel: You stop breathing when get scared?
    Fael Illyar: no but I used to get scared that I'd stop breathing if I stopped controlling my breathing when I did control it for some reason :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: ah ok got it
    Fael Illyar: I used to consider it rather amusing but rather inconvenient trait :P
    Wol Euler: heheheheh
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles
    Wol Euler: ping goes the quilty. ah well.
    Adams Rubble: I was just trying to send him the missing chat :(
    Faenik loves wells!
    Gaya Ethaniel wonders how to type an emote for :(
    Adams Rubble: Unfortunately I must leave you all :(
    Adams Rubble: bye :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
    Wol Euler: bye adams, take care.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: bye Adams!

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