Judo or Wrestling?

Discussion in 'MMA Training: technique, diet and fitness' started by SwiftLee, Sep 14, 2016.

  1. esok Strawweight

    I love JJ as well but it is not "best among all" it def has it's limitations. Largest is it's lack of takedowns. The second thing that it has against it is it requires the opponent to engage on the ground, a fighter can simply choose to stand. I hope I am not falling into a troll trap, but............
  2. SwiftLee Flyweight

    Thanks :)
  3. demeter Bantamweight

    I feel like this is a bit of a misconception, Jiujitsu has always had takedowns, generally borrowed from or variations of classic wrestling or judo techniques it's true that a lot of modern practitioners don't tend to use them as much but if you watch the Gracie challenge matches not to mention the early UFC's you can see members of the Gracie family using them.
  4. esok Strawweight

    I am really trying not to sound like a d--- but I've never EVER seen a member of the Gracie family do any other take down than the double leg, or guard pull. If any takedowns are taught you are correct they are borrowed from Judo/Wrestling so they are not JJ, thats why I say JJ lacks takedowns. The other bad habit I see in JJ players is their tendency to allow themselves to be picked up when holding full guard or taking the back. A bigger guy can cause problems for you if you hold on in those situations. Marcelo Garcia, who is an amazing grappler, took the back of a huge guy in an ADCC tourney. Everyone was cheering and hooping and hollering until said monster flopped to his back and Garcia let go, injured. Again, I love JJ/Wrestling/Judo and train all of them to be well rounded but I also keep in mind that they all compliment each other and lacking one would put me at a disadvantage.
  5. demeter Bantamweight

    Here's an example of Ryron Gracie demonstrating the use of an Ouchi Gari, I've always wondered if the name Brazilian Jiujitsu leaves out the fact that fundamentally the art is Judo with a focus on Newaza rather than an entirely separate discipline. I feel like what we're seeing is the arts adaption to a differing rule set, rather than a fundamentally different art. As a thought experiment, if Judo allowed an infinite amount of time for Newaza, leg grabs and say points on completion of an ippon rather than instant victory we would probably see it resemble Brazilian Jiujitsu.

    Likewise the Eddie Bravo Invitation rule set and other submission only rule sets have essentially almost created a different sport where the emphasis has been placed largely on leg attacks due to takedown and control positions mattering significantly less.

    esok, Hyllar and redstar like this.
  6. JonB OG Strawweight

    How much time can you dedicate to training?
    Both are beneficial, but if you can train in either style long enough to make it a base: Pick the one you can develop great skills in.
    A lot of Judo dojos focus more on Olympic rules though, so you may want to ask questions about the amount of newaza (ground fighting) included. Judo generally emphasizes use of the gi as well, and that might make it difficult to translate into MMA. But we all know several people who have been successful with it, or at least Sambo.
  7. Hyllar Strawweight

    @Demeter, you made some fairly accurate observations. BJJ is an evolution of Judo that is largely influenced by a different tournament rules set. GracieJJ, from my understanding is a style of BJJ that is designed more for self defense than to be used as an educational tool the way that Judo (and BJJ) is intended to be.

    Prior to the 1930s (I believe) Judo looked a lot more like BJJ does today. Then Kano decided, for various reasons, that it should start focusing more on the throws and standing techniques. In some places they have Kosen Judo Dojos (Old Style Judo) and it looks a great deal like BJJ does now.

    One distinction that people should be aware of when talking about JiuJitsu (JJ). Japanese Jui Jitsu(JJJ) is very different than Brazilian Jiu Jitsu (BJJ). JJJ is the compelte collection of all unarmed techniques. This was distilled into Judo by Kano, who taught Mifune, who taught Maeda (sp?). Mr Maeda moved to Brazil, where he taught Julio Gracie (I think). Due to poor mats, lack of high level practicioner sfor standing work, and possibly not getting the memo about change in direction (or not agreeing with it) he continued to focus on groundwork, and eventually BJJ was born.
  8. 2_1up2_4down Lightweight

    If you're already training must Thai, try judo. Then Greco wrestling. It'll make your overall clinch game diverse.
    Eventually you'll have to deal with training free style wrestling.

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