The Joe Rogan Experience Episode 1019 with Bryan Fogel

Episode Number: 1019
Episode Guest: Bryan Fogel
Original Airdate: October 4, 2017
Episode Sponsors: Onnit, ZipRecruiter,, Blinkist

Guest Bio: Bryan Fogel is an American film director, producer, author, and playwright. His documentary Icarus, available now on Netflix, documents the uncovering of the Russian doping scandal.

Topics Discussed: The initial idea behind the Icarus documentary was Lance Armstrong; Lance Armstrong and the doping allegations; he wanted to explore what was wrong with the anti-doping system in other sports; pro cyclist caught with engine in bicycle; the scientists he interviewed don’t think anti-doping works or that they could catch those who do dope; getting his samples into the WADA lab; connecting with Grigory Rodchenkov; experts believe high-level athletes and Olympians couldn’t win without doping; Grigory agreed to help Bryan dope and not get caught; Bryan grew up cycling and racing; talk about a bad bike crash he suffered at 19 years old; what he took before his clean race; he took 14th out of 440 guys in his clean race; six months after the race he started doping; German TV documentary about Russian doping; the people he interviewed for his documentary didn’t know he was working with Rodchenkov; he flew Rodchenkov to the US to keep him from being killed; Grigory brought the evidence of Russian doping to the United States; Russia used state-sponsored doping in sports to assert its geopolitical power; China was doping for the Olympics according to Grigory; tamper-proof urine collection bottles; Russia figured out how to open and reseal these bottles with clean urine; Russia swapped urine through a literal hole in the wall; how was doping done in previous Olympics; Grigory was helping athletes cheat while developing tests to reveal steroids; he figured out how to take steroids so they weren’t detected; Russia swapped urine so its athletes could be doped to the gills; Russia spent $50 billion on the Sochi Olympics; Putin used his increased approval rating after the Olympics to go to war with Ukraine; Russia and the 2016 summer Olympics(1:00:00) forensic testing was done on the Russian urine bottles and it was discovered that they were tampered with; talk about testing the swapped Russian urine and discovering table salt; Russia was not banned from the 2016 Olympics despite evidence of doping; 1,000 athletes across all sports were doping; McLaren report; the Olympics didn’t protect the rights of clean athletes; the Olympics is a business and there’s no interest in catching or punishing athletes; thousands of clean athletes essentially had their medals stolen; they are hoping this will be forgotten and swept under the rug; “Russia’s Olympic Cheating, Unpunished” article by Grigory for The New York Times; Russia denies that this happened and blames Grigory; Russia issued an arrest warrant for Grigory; connecting Russia with our election process; we have evidence of doping but not of election tampering; Russian athletes had medals stripped; Russia is not our friend though it pretends to be; WADA didn’t want to hear that it was incompetent; WADA is in bed with the IOC; WADA was established to make the Olympics look clean; WADA has no power to enforce punishment; IAAF doping controversy; he has no contact with Grigory and is worried about him; Grigory might never be able to see his family again; GoFundMe for Grigory; Russia wants Grigory dead; Putin says he doesn’t remember Grigory’s name; Russia is painting Grigory as a criminal; what things have been like for Bryan; he had to move his production office because he may have been under surveillance; it was hard to find a lawyer because many were connected to Russia; Nikita Kamaev death; 14 Russian deaths on British soil; more Grigory talk; athletes should compete clean; humans are still evolving; Juan Enriquez on evolution; the future of humans and athletics; what is natural and unnatural; Aleksandr Karelin; Russian wrestlers; Fedor Emelianenko; doping in the UFC and USADA; someone could be charged with manslaughter if they were doping and killed someone during a UFC fight; Olympic athletes get basically no money; US athletes aren’t paid to be in the Olympics, but in Russia and China, they’re employees of the government; no one cares about Olympic sports (swimming, gymnastics, etc.) unless it’s at the Olympics; NBC pays $7.75 billion for rights to air the Olympics; Olympic doctors accepted millions of dollars in bribes to cover up positive drug tests; Jamaica and its runners; (2:00:00) it’s a big deal to have a top athlete represent a country; Maria Sharapova was doping and lied about her age; Serena Williams locked herself in her safe room in drug test “mix-up”; Jon Jones positive drug test; it’s hard psychologically to go off drugs; more Lance Armstrong talk; CRISPR and gene editing; young blood infusions; what is the solution to doping; how athletics affects a country’s pride; meldonium; what if the US government was sponsoring athletes; Russia would sacrifice athletes with positive drug tests to make it look as if they were strictly testing; Russia was swapping urine samples with clean urine thanks to its urine database; Russian and Chinese athletes are scared to speak out against the government; McLaren drops charges of state-sponsored doping programMikhail Khodorkovsky, richest man in Russia, was jailed; Russia/USA election talk; it’s hard to keep things private today; Joe thinks we will be able to read peoples’ minds in the future; Minority Report movie; more talk about the Russian doping scheme; deleted information was recovered from a laptop and used as evidence; data recovery is like reading minds; what’s next after photos and video; virtual reality; more talk about possible future technologies; bulletproof skin made of spider silk and human cells; government programs and scientists; stealth aircraft; Russia supported Putin invading Ukraine after the Olympics; sports is religion to some people; you can’t stop technology; we’re always going to make better shit; America is an example of what’s possible; artificial intelligence is a lifeform; humans are limited by evolution; 1984 positive drug test cover-up; Dick Pound; Richard/Dick; John/Jack; more Dick Pound talk; Dick Pound and Ben Johnson; more Ben Johnson talk; Grigory can look at someone and tell what they’re taking; Bryan talks about storing his urine to take to Russia.

Movies Mentioned


Minority Report [Blu-ray]
Condition: New; Format: Blu-ray; AC-3; Color; Dolby; DTS Surround Sound; Dubbed; Subtitled; Widescreen

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Podcast Video: Below is a video of The Joe Rogan Experience podcast episode #1019 available for streaming via YouTube.


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