Tuesday, August 28, 2012


Ok, we've done it again!




  1. Not wishing to sound negative because I think the campaign has been fantastic, but I don't honestly understand the need for a Steam stretch goal.

    While ADOM is a free product, I get that you can't afford to invest the time in improving it and so this campaign was necessary.

    But why do you need us to pay for you to develop the commercial version? If you believe it will be profitable then surely it is in your interests to do it regardless of the outcome of this campaign. If you don't truly believe it will be profitable, then why do it at all?

    1. The requirements for getting together a Steam submission are fairly resource-consuming though. For instance you need a good gameplay trailer - something Thomas might have to contract out. The game itself would need many changes to be suitable for Steam (mostly on the interface side, but also on having a save/restore system for casual players). It's not trivial, and there's no guarantee Steam will even accept it. Hopefully some of the development will help the game in general, mind.

    2. All of these things (interface, save/restore) sound awful. Steam stretch goal is the only thing I don't like about this campaign.

    3. Actually, it sounds pretty good to me, as it will help ADOM to get larger audience, it it's released in Steam. More players = More money and support to justify developing ADOM and ADOM II further. And even it is released in Steam, this won't remove the postcardware version, that is downloadable for free. (As far as I've understood this) And It's just Steam version that has the new interface, save/restore things... If you don't want these, Don't buy the Steam version. Problem Solved.

    4. @Jipostus: Correct.

      The next stretch goal is about sustainability. I'm looking for the best way to ensure new ADOM versions for many years.

      I still don't quite get why the idea of a "commercial ADOM variant" is so horrible to many people while games like Minecraft are loved beyond all measure despite being commercial from the beginning ;-)

      I probably miss something very simple but I'm sure someone one will beat me with it :-)

    5. I think their outlook is 'A paid version of ADOM? Don't care'.

      I'm a realistic person, and while personally I have never been bothered by the ASCII graphics that ADOM has, you won't reach out to a bigger audience with it. Over the years, I have tried to get many many people interested in ADOM the way I am, but the graphics immediately made most of them lose interest.

      This isn't a problem if ADOM is to be a side project forever, but if Thomas wants to be able to sustain regular development, it needs to branch out to a bigger audience. New tiles and Steam implementation is the way to do so.

    6. @Thomas - I don't think a paid version is a bad idea at all - quite the opposite. I just don't see what it has to do with this campaign.

      I thought this was about funding the development of the free version of ADOM. Effectively to guarantee yourself a salary while you improve the game which I think is perfectly reasonable because we, as players of the game, are the sole beneficiary of your work.

      But now you're saying that we should fund you to create a product that you will earn residual income from indefinitely. To me that completely changes the nature of the campaign.

      What's more, when people want investment through kickstarter (etc) for a commercial product, the tendency is to offer it at a rate much lower than it will eventually sell for. In your case however, you have offered this only to people that have invested $40 or more. I dare say you won't be charging anything like that much through Steam. So someone that invests $25 now will be left worse off than someone that gives nothing now and just waits to buy the commercial version.

      So to be clear, I think a commercial ADOM is a great idea, but I object to you using money that we gave you to invest in the free ADOM to do it with.

    7. I think the only problem with the Steam-based stretch goals is that they're less for the current community and more for expanding the community. In my opinion, they should have included extra sweeteners for the regular game. Something like, say, an extra 10 new items and two new interesting NPCs at each of the two goals. That way, people who aren't all that interested in seeing ADoM published on Steam (etc) still have reason to aim for those stretch goals.

    8. The Steam goal still helps existing players, since if we have a sustainable model for future ADOM development it'll mean more updates to both the Deluxe and regular editions.

    9. I agree with Darren. I don't think it's a case of thinking of it like "Hey, our money is funding the steam version", but more like
      "If this game is on Steam, the free version will hitch a ride on any major updates/new content that is produced due with Steam money"

      So getting the Steam/Paid version of ADOM goal is basically an investment in the future of the free ADOM too, potentially even more so than just rounding off a 1.2.0 release, as I can see it having a direct benefit to the free version as well.

    10. I'm sure that's how it'll work out, but it's not how everyone will see it. And that's the point - the aim of the stretch goals is to encourage more people to donate. If people think "If I donate, it means he might put it on Steam... but I don't particularly want it on Steam, so why donate?", then the stretch goal has failed.

      Just a small extra sweetener, or an explicit statement about something that will be added to the regular game as part of the process of preparing the game for Steam, would be enough. That is, something that he would add to the Steam version, but also to the regular version because of the existence of the Steam version.

    11. and there's no guarantee Steam will even accept it

      If Steam doesn't accept it, do we get bumped up a goal? For example, let's say we funded $70,000 and got the global high score list. Then Steam says, "Nope, we're not interested in ADOM." Since that's ineligible to be a stretch goal (that is, despite whatever effort may have been put into it, it's not something that can legitimately be offered to the donors), do we get the high score list in its place, and the volcano quest after?

    12. The work would still have to be done for the Steam submission. Plus I'm fairly sure the likes of Desura would accept it, so it would end up the same or similar.

    13. At the very least, ADOM Deluxe will probably be sold through the website here.


      I saw in the comments that someone has vowed to donate $2500 if we are able to reach $67500. Lets go achievements and high scores!

    14. I appreciate that the free version will "hitch a ride" on the paid version and I think that's a valid point.

      But the commercial intent of this project wasn't clear at the start of this campaign. I donated to help support a non-profit product because I believe in the ethos.

      If it was known that ADOM would end up being sold then I wouldn't have donated - I would have bought the final product instead. Now it seems I will have to do both and that feels like a bit of a kick in the teeth.

  2. Really glad we managed to get the extra races and classes funded! This resurrection will really be extend and revive the game, with fresh new content across the board. We've managed to add artifacts, items, maps, corruptions, new named wandering monsters, races, classes, side "quests" with boss monsters, even an optional graphical display with custom made tiles - *and* all those little bugs will get irons out! I deem this a success on every level!

  3. Only 300 dollars per hour for the Rolf's quest! We can do it, people!

  4. Did a mini-quest get unlocked yesterday? I think we made over $2000.