ACHA versus CHF

If you think refs are doing this for a living, and use USAH insurance as a primary insurance, you are really misinformed on what USAH insurance is and how it works… again, no one has answered me on why we are so infatuated with USAH insurance as a secondary insurance. Is it because they are monopolizing the market? I go yes.

I know of at least two that do this as a living - hockey in the winter, soccer or baseball in the summer.

K&k insurance picks up after your primary insurance doesn’t, if you don’t have a primary insurance- what is k &k then?

But yes the secondary insurance is bs…is it void if 1 player doesn’t have insurance?

So the thing with USAH insurance is it is only valid if your opponents have USAH insurance, so they have created a system that forces all teams to utilize one insurance carrier to have valid insurance. This has created a monopoly by USAH insurance. Insurance is not suppose to work like this. Insurance is suppose to protect the premium payers regardless of outside factors.

I coach a team that has secondary insurance from our university that will continue to insure my players regardless of my opponents insurance and that how it should be. Players, coaches, refs should be able to get insurance that protects them regardless of what other teams carry. USAH insurance is a bad policy with little benefit for those that have tried to utilize it. USAH insurance on a per person basis is more expensive than other secondary insurance carriers but since they created a monopoly, they can charge what they want. Several years ago E.D. Walley at the time was thinking of moving to Northwestern insurance to cut costs for teams, get proper insurance without these requirements of having matching insurance carriers but shockingly that was thrown out the window. Wonder why? Kick backs?

If you’re saying is true, is USAHockey insurance invalid vs ncaa and cis teams?

Aau would take the entire acha for $14 and $16 per player and coach

As with an legal contract you can get signed and approved waivers or amendments to a contract especially if the ncaa/cis vs ACHA is limited in games. They may be reviewed on game by game scenario. This may be the case. That is a question for USAH insurance directly.

Interesting, they’re making exceptions to everyone but “rival”? If you talk to ACHA D1 coaches, they will talk about their advantages over NCAA d3 in their recruiting pitch. If I’m a lawyer I’d argue ncaa is a rival and the exceptions are being made.

Discovery would be fun anyways? I hope the CHF, gets an aggressive nyc lawyer if they pursue the legal route.

I am pro CHF because i am worried about bad financial management from ACHA but the back and forth needs to stop. The tic for tack is what concerns most coaches. Two different governing bodies with two different views. Agree to disagree and move forward.

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CHF needs to gut it out and have successful first year to move forward with a reduced cost. If they have a good 1st year, they can grab another few conferences and really chip away at the ACHA. By the way, the web site needs to be up. Not a good look.

I’ll bet anything that USAHockey has already contacted the predators and promised some type of USAHockey event like the all American prospects Game.

Reviewing the “list of teams and leagues” on the CHF twitter feed and you will not find one team of significance in my opinion. Question… have any of the teams joining the CHF ever won a National Championship with the ACHA or even been close?

If this is just all of the bottom feeder teams leaving the ACHA, then the ACHA just became a better organization. We needed a purge as we were serving too many that were not aligned with making the ACHA as competitive as possible.

Going to be hard to sell the CHF champions as “National Champions”… more like friendly showcase winners. Good for them though… everyone deserves to have fun and there is really no place in the ACHA for teams that are not competitive.

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Please refer back to post 6 on this thread almost a month ago… 60 teams, most bottom feeders… D3 National Championship game will be Farmingdale vs Fairfield.

DVCHC’s D2 Divison is god awful and without the likes of George Mason and Rowan in their D3 top Divison, that should be a mess.

Jay Turk - you could find your Stockton Osprey in the National Semi-Finals!!

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The only other D2 leagues I’ve heard of leaving is the UNYHL… and the ACCHL, and as of yesterday, there was at least 3 ACCHL teams who I was told were staying in the ACHA.

May I remind you that of the 534 teams in the ACHA, more than 450 teams are non-post season qualifying and I’d bet the majority of them would be considered in your opinion, non-significant.

You see sir… You and your ridiculous “gym class hero” elitist attitude is the problem. You donkey, this is club hockey, no matter how much smoke you blow up your own ass! The biggest group in USA Hockey’s adult division! Who are you fooling!

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Hey boys…great to see the “opinions”, but you guys just reinforce the reasoning behind everything that’s taking place…
Dreamcrusher…thanks for signing up 10 hours ago to post 9 hours ago glad to have your thoughts? on the topic. I guess the “bottom feeder” term is a jab, but it just illustrates the divide and arrogance of the ACHA today. You must be drinking the kool-aid or just uninformed if you think 100 plus teams leaving a 500plus team organization is positive. Your “purge” comment sounds D1 ish . National Champions/CHF champions it will cover this years footprint. It will again next year when the footprint grows. Maintain your stance and opinion its why the CHF exists.
Chiz…update your search brotha…I love those Stockton boys but I turned that program over a few years ago

Don’t be so sure on UNYCHL a lot remains to be seen.
Yes, almost the entire membership looks to prefer the CHF, but seeing is believing. Several clubs are considering doing both organizations (ones who have the budget and talent).

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Would be silly if UNYCHL didn’t jump.

Also, why don’t teams join both?

Cali…there are a number of teams considering being in both, however the ACHA leadership has sent word it won’t bode well for those that do…or those that play CHF teams regardless of USAH. We’ll see

ACCHL is staying put in the ACHA.

On another note, the double registration is interesting and could be a very good thing for all parties. You do have a ton of teams that just aren’t ready to compete on a higher level in D2 ACHA and this could give them another outlet. It also takes any questions off the table about insurance, rankings, games counting etc. CHF with their low overhead (no one is getting paid) should be able to keep CHF registration costs low enough so it is not cost prohibitive for teams to double registration. They also have a decent amount of D3 teams registered and maybe a few D2 teams. They have a great year with what is essentially a control group and maybe three things happen. 1) They entice more teams to leave by having a great yea 2) The ACHA realizes they do need to make some of these changes so more teams do not leave and addresses them, which is a win for all. If the marriage you are in can be saved and made healthy, that is always the best option. 3) ACHA makes changes but the CHF shows their is still a market need for another competitive level option and they co-exist and the CHF essentially puts on a NIT type tournament, which again would be great as not many D2 teams have a chance to compete with the likes of FGCU and company. One thing I have not seen from either side is addressing “pseudo club programs.” That creates another level of disparity or does that need a whole new thread…

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I am the coach of an ACHA Division 1 team that gets no funding, administrative help, or preferential treatment through admissions. I will be one of the first to tell you that the ACHA is not perfect and I don’t agree with a lot of what has happened the last few years, but to characterize the meetings as “being run by good old boys in D1” is a joke.

Before all this started, the ACHA had over 500 teams. There were 60 teams in D1 (we just added 12 teams and created a new auto bid but it is what it is). The last 5 years, we have had roughly 30-35 voting members in the D1 meetings. How can 35 votes, which I promise you are never in unison, be the deciding factor in an organization of 500 members, when over 100 attend the meetings each year?

If you tell me that most other teams can’t make it to Naples, I would respond and say that again, we get no funding from the school… we stay in the same hotel chain all year long to accrue points to stay for free in Naples. Whoever flies takes the cheapest flight available within 2-3 hours of Naples and Priceline’s a rental car for $20 per day. We take these costs into account when we make our budget for the year. There have been instances of us flying in on Friday and out on Saturday, but it was important to us to have someone at the meeting. The total cost is usually somewhere around $500-$600, and could easily be offset by a team of 20-30 players. To not do so, in my opinion, isn’t the fault of the ACHA, but of the individual teams in question. It took more than the 35 D1 teams to vote down the absentee ballot proposal this year, and that seems to be a major dividing factor here.

And to the comment that this is “club hockey” … yes, it is. But myself and MOST (not all) view the ACHA (especially D1) as a viable alternative to NCAA D3 schools, and sell it to players as such. And whether it’s staying close to home, wanting to go to a big school, or a consideration of majors, we land players with NCAA options on a semi-regular basis. With that in mind, there have been a few incidents over the past few seasons that give the entire ACHA a black eye, and typically have come from the lower divisions. Whether it’s the goalie from Virginia drinking a beer on the ice, or the kid from wherever this year vaping in the penalty box, that makes the rest of the ACHA look like a joke. If teams with players like that are leaving, I’m all for it.

Finally, the promises coming out of the CHF sound a lot like what was coming from the former Executive Director is the ACHA. Most “sponsorships” obtained the last few years have brought in zero revenue, just discounts. He made grand promises about sponsors, and told me and a few other coaches that the Dallas Stars were offering $250k for travel reimbursement to Nationals this past year. When the Dallas contingent presented in the general session in 2018, they very clearly had no idea about this “promise” they had made. I would caution everyone to be very careful about believing or trusting someone with a track record over the last 3 years like his. But maybe that’s just me.


Columbo as another coach for an ACHA Division 1 Team (and over a decade of coaching in the ACHA) that gets no funding, administrative help, or preferential treatment through admissions.

Our program feels that it is unfair to have those travel expenses for coaches to Naples, FL to be paid for / offset by the players on the team. As a staff of 100% volunteers we will not add unneeded financial burdens on our college students, just because the ACHA is unwilling to change there outdated practices and bylaws.

The ACHA needs to figure out a solution to the underlying issue here, there needs to be a way in which every team can be heard and that every program gets an equal vote. It shouldn’t matter whether teams can afford, or can not afford or they just choose not to send a representative to the National Convention in FL.

And a side note the fact that Nationals this past year and next year are in Dallas / Frisco is a joke.

Every team no matter the level of play deserves the right to have their voices heard and their votes counted. Just because we cant make it to Florida doesn’t mean we don’t care. We sacrifice a lot for these players because we love our teams, the players (past, current, and future) and the sport. Notice I left out the ACHA, if the CHF was a realistic option for the D1 level we would have some serious conversations.


How do you think we ended up in Dallas? It wasn’t the ACHA board, but rather one man. The same man who was proposing Tampa, Florida as another option. And we were supposed to be in Dallas for 4 years and the board got it reduced to 2.

I’ve heard the argument that this man didn’t sign an agreement, only a letter of intent… but to do that and try and use it as a bargaining chip or not have the intention of following through seems incredibly morally and ethically irresponsible to me. And guess what college league this man is running now?

As for the meetings in Naples, I understand it’s not the most convenient location. We have sent players to the meetings before and had a discussion on how we would like to vote as a program. It’s not ideal, but again we view it as an integral cost of the season. Ideally, they would be somewhere much easier to get to for the majority of the membership, but it is what it is for now. I’ve heard in the next 2-3 years that location will no longer be available.

Strictly from a selfish perspective, I very much enjoy getting the chance to hear NHL and NCAA coaches talk about coaching and running their programs, and honestly I’ve had a handful of players over the years tell me how much they think I’ve grown as a coach. I’d say my program has benefitted from that growth.

In my opinion, one HUGE problem with the ACHA in general is the transient nature to a lot of programs and coaches. Guys come in for a year or two, try and make massive changes that sound great in theory but are much more difficult in practice or that benefit only their program and a handful of others and then they’re gone. There’s very little consideration given to what might be best for the Division as a whole.

When you have 500 teams with a large variance in school involvement, funding, governing structure, etc, you’re never going to be able to make everyone happy. The ACHA, for its many faults, does a decent job for a group largely run by volunteers.