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Fireworks in Jodi Arias Courtroom

Aired February 26, 2013 - 19:00   ET


JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST: Did jaw-dropping texts of a sexual nature send Jodi Arias into a tail spin, claiming she had a migraine and couldn`t continue? As court ends early, did she use the old headache excuse to win a delay just as the prosecutor aims for her jugular?


VELEZ-MITCHELL (voice-over): Tonight, this is war. A passive- aggressive Jodi Arias versus a relentlessly aggressive prosecutor, Juan Martinez, who throws Jodi`s sex life in her face. She, in turn, thinks the prosecutor is an angry bully. Is she goading the prosecutor into losing his cool? Did she go too far by openly mocking him?

Our expert panel will debate it. And Jodi says a woman had an affair with Travis while she was married. Well, tonight that woman calls Jodi a natural-born liar. I will talk to her tonight, and we`re taking your calls.


JODI ARIAS, MURDER SUSPECT: Just knowing him has taught me a lot.

JUAN MARTINEZ, PROSECUTOR: You were looking at things that were not yours to look at.

ARIAS: You go in circles. Meeting up at hotel rooms or his house.

Because you`re making my brain scramble before you interrupted me.


ARIAS: I have no problem telling the truth.

MARTINEZ: You lied to a lot of people. Right?

ARIAS: Everyone. I`ll always tell the truth. It is my own internal mental problem, I think.

MARTINEZ: You didn`t know, according to your own story, that Mr. Alexander was dead.

ARIAS: I`m not saying that. I`m not saying that either.

MARTINEZ: He described you as his kryptonite, right?



VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight, sex and fireworks inside the Jodi Arias courtroom, as the accused murderess and the prosecutor go head to head, throwing verbal punches. The testimony gets extremely raunchy. As the questions turn to sex, who really won this round between Jodi and the prosecution?


The stunning 32-year-old photographer is accused of stabbing her ex- boyfriend 29 times, slitting Travis Alexander`s throat ear to ear, and putting a bullet in his head. But she says it was all done in self- defense.

Well, things got heated and very personal today when both Jodi and the prosecutor refused to back down. Listen to this.


MARTINEZ: How is it that, if it just happened, you can`t even remember what you just said?

ARIAS: I think I`m more focused on your posture and your tone and your anger, so it`s hard to process the question.

MARTINEZ: So the answer is it`s, again, the prosecutor`s fault because you perceive him to be angry, right?

ARIAS: It`s not your fault.

MARTINEZ: Is somebody asking you whose fault it is?

ARIAS: You did.

MARTINEZ: You seem to be pointing it at the prosecutor. You believe the reason you can`t be effective on the witness stand is because somebody is asking you questions in a way you don`t like?

ARIAS: I think that was a compound question.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh! And then, just a little while ago, the prosecutor steered the questions into triple-X-rated territory, asking Jodi about a sexually explicit and extremely raunchy offer that she texted Travis months before she killed him. This is very graphic language, but it was said in open court.


MARTINEZ: This is what the text message reads: "Will do. The reason I was asking about later tonight is because I want to give you a nice (EXPLETIVE DELETED)." (EXPLETIVE DELETED) stands for what?


MARTINEZ: And (EXPLETIVE DELETED) means, without getting way graphic, (EXPLETIVE DELETED) means that you put your mouth on his penis. Right?

ARIAS: Yes. Oral sex.

MARTINEZ: Right. And in addition to it you say, "And I`d like a generous facial in return," right?


MARTINEZ: That means that you want him to (EXPLETIVE DELETED) on your face, right?

ARIAS: That`s correct.

MARTINEZ: One of them you described as leaving you feeling like a prostitute. Yet this one, which is the same thing, you`re requesting it, right?

ARIAS: Yes. Well, no. Not -- I don`t know what you mean by same thing. If you`re about (EXPLETIVE DELETED) face, it`s the same thing.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: So is she sexually degraded or is she the sexual aggressor? I`m taking your call on this. Call me: 1-877-JVM-SAYS, 1-877- 586-7297.

Straight out to our own senior producer, Selin Darkalstanian. You were in court for this blush-inducing. It`s so graphic, it`s so raunchy, that it`s just like, ah! Just to even discuss it as we`re preparing the show. What was it like in the courtroom?

SELIN DARKALSTANIAN, HLN PRODUCER: Jane, where do I begin? Right?

First I want to tell you that court ended because Jodi had a migraine headache. Apparently, she`s not getting her lunches by the sheriff`s office on time. So we ended court a little early, just a few minutes ago.

But aside from that, there is so much explicit testimony. And it`s not even -- it`s what`s coming out of Jodi`s mouth in court. And the back three rows where the media is sitting, we`re literally looking at each other, going "Do you believe what she is saying?" It`s unbelievable the words coming out of her mouth. There is so much sexual testimony in this trial.

But another thing that we`re noticing is that Jodi is using words like, "It`s my state of mind. It`s emotional distress" as she`s describing how she`s feeling. She`s using this big -- this big vocabulary. She`s using psychology terms in her -- almost like she`s setting up for the domestic violence expert that`s going to follow her on the stand to corroborate everything that she is saying about being abused by Travis Alexander.

And so it was quite a day in court. But Jodi Arias herself using the words that she was using in court. The sexually explicit words that she was using, literally made the entire courtroom gasp.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. And we gasped watching at home, too. And there were -- there were many, many moments that we gasped. It`s hard to pick which ones to show the jury -- to show the viewers at home.

Is the prosecutor a lot stronger when he keeps the moral high ground instead of shouting at Jodi? Now we`ve got to warn you, this is also very sexually explicit.


TRAVIS ALEXANDER, MURDER VICTIM (via phone): You introduced me to KY, did you know that?

ARIAS (via phone): I introduced you to KY?

ALEXANDER: I had never -- I`d heard of it, obviously, but I`d never used it.

MARTINEZ: You discussed how much better KY was than baby oil, right?

ARIAS (on camera): Yes.

MARTINEZ: And the reason that you were able to say that was because you had experience with baby oil involving Mr. Juarez, right?

ARIAS: I think so.

MARTINEZ: We don`t want you to think. Isn`t it true that when you and Mr. Juarez engaged in anal intercourse, you used baby oil, right?

ARIAS: I don`t remember that far back, what kinds of lubricant we used.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: The prosecutor is basically showing the jury that Jodi has been having anal sex since she was 17 years old, and it wasn`t Travis who forced her to do it.

The prosecutor, Martinez, did that, calmly presenting evidence. Now, does this undercut Jodi`s claim that she was sexually degraded and humiliated and a battered woman when Travis, for example, forced her to anal sex hours after bringing her into the Mormon religion? Or does the Mormon baptism issue still give her some wiggle room to argue that Travis was using his religious authority as a cloak (ph) to abuse her?

Let`s bring in the panel. We`re going to debate it, starting with Wendy Murphy for the prosecution.

WENDY MURPHY, FORMER PROSECUTOR: You know, first of all, Jane, last week I said to you, wait until cross-examination. I guarantee you, there`s going to be a text or an audio or all of the above showing this woman to be a very sexually aggressive person.

There`s no question that, even during direct, it was pretty clear that Travis was learning from the lying lady.

You know, this may sound strange. I`m feeling a little bad for this chick at this point. She was decimated on the stand, and it`s only going to get worse. I mean, the fake migraine, the fake boobs, we find out. The fake everything in her life.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: You know what? Let me say something.

MURPHY: I don`t know how the jury isn`t laughing.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Do not throw in fake breasts or breast implants. I think the prosecutor kind of did that. And I think it`s very dangerous. I think 300,000 American women get breast implants for a variety of legitimate reasons every year. And that`s very different -- that`s very different from doing something that`s sexually degrading or participating in kinky sex.

But I want to bring the defense in. What do you say, Drew Findling? Was she decimated today?

DREW FINDLING, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Absolutely not. The prosecution was baited. And all I heard for two weeks was good former prosecutors of prosecutors say on this show, Jane, "Get away from the sex! All the direct wants to talk about is sex. Let`s talk about the case." And they got goaded right into this.

We are hearing about things that have nothing to do, according to former prosecutors, with the case. It was great strategy. And this prosecutor`s falling right into it. He`s getting away from his case. And here`s what he`s trying to do: he went for death, which was a major mistake. Now he`s just trying to get this back to be a murder case again.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Jordan Rose for the prosecution.

JORDAN ROSE, ATTORNEY: Look, she -- she -- his central theme, the prosecutor`s central theme is Jodi is a liar. And the only person who has testified that Jodi is a good person is Jodi. There hasn`t been another witness that said that they`ve seen Travis being abusive or anything like that.

And so every single question that Juan Martinez asks, the prosecutor is trying to show the jury that she lies. That she`s lied in the past. And in fact, she`s lying today on the stand. And every time she answers, she digs herself deeper into this hole.

And so you see today we`ve got confused Jodi. Jodi doesn`t really know how to answer the question, because the prosecutor is beating her up. And she`s submissive Jodi yesterday. And she`s arrogant Jodi earlier this morning. And then she`s combative Jodi.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Jon Lieberman.

JON LIEBERMAN, HLN CONTRIBUTOR: Jane, a lot of it is the juxtaposition of the Jodi we`re seeing in the courtroom and then the Jodi we see in the TV tapes. That`s what Mr. Martinez is trying to show you.

She`s like a chameleon. She can be all these different people. And Mr. Martinez made a great point today. And that is that she`s not some wallflower. When she is faced with problems in a relationship, or perceived wrongs, she goes and she confronts those head on.


LIEBERMAN: She went to an ex`s house. I mean, she is not some deflated, beaten-down woman. And I think Mr. Martinez made that great point today.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Brian Silver, ten seconds.

BRIAN SILVER, ATTORNEY: I`ve got to tell you: when I watch this, I want to jump through my television. Because this is an example of what not to do. He`s asking her about KY jelly versus baby oil? Whether she told other men about anal sex? It`s totally off point. He`s killing the most winnable case in the history of American justice. And it`s unbelievable.

LIEBERMAN: He`s showing how much of a liar she is.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: It isn`t off point. Her whole defense is that she was sexually degraded humiliated, abused. And they played all these sex tapes. And now we`re finding out, oh, she`s the one initiating some of this sexual behavior. So how abused can she be if she`s initiating the bleep, bleep, bleep, beep that we can`t tell you?

All right. We`re just getting started. Unbelievable moments from court today. We`ll show you the all-out verbal fight the prosecutor and Jodi Arias had. And we`re also going to talk to a woman who`s claimed, that, well, Jodi was lying when Jodi claimed that Travis was having an affair with her.


MARTINEZ: And it doesn`t say anything there that he backhanded you, does it?

ARIAS: No. Of course not.

MARTINEZ: No, not. Of course. You were afraid to write it down. Right?

ARIAS: I said I would never do that.

MARTINEZ: Isn`t it true that there is nothing there that says about that?

ARIAS: No. Of course not.

MARTINEZ: You keep saying, "Of course not." You were afraid to do it, wouldn`t you?

ARIAS: Yes. But I wouldn`t have.

MARTINEZ: But you didn`t do it. Right?

ARIAS: No. Of course not.

MARTINEZ: Of course yes or of course not?

ARIAS: Of course not.

MARTINEZ: So you did. That`s a no, right? You`re telling us that, "Yes, well, that`s right there, but I just didn`t include the fact that he hit me on the side of the neck."

ARIAS: Right. Of course not.

MARTINEZ: Of course not what?




MARTINEZ: You were offended, right?

ARIAS: I was hurt.

MARTINEZ: But didn`t you just say you were offended?

ARIAS: Offended would be accurate.

MARTINEZ: And didn`t you just say it was a good word, right?

ARIAS: Yes. There`s many descriptors to use.

MARTINEZ: But you just said just now it was a good word, right?

ARIAS: Yes, I think.

MARTINEZ: You think? It means you don`t remember what you just said?

ARIAS: I don`t know.

MARTINEZ: What do you mean you don`t know? You just said offended was a good word. And when I used it, then you took issue with it. Is it a good word or is it not a good word?

ARIAS: It depends on how you used it.

MARTINEZ: Well, I`m saying you`re the one that, I asked you a question. If you were offended and you said offended is a good word, right? That`s what you said, right?

ARIAS: I think so, yes.

MARTINEZ: You think so means you don`t know, right?

ARIAS: I don`t know.

MARTINEZ: This just happened. How is it that you are not remembering what you`re saying?

ARIAS: Because you`re making my brain scramble.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jodi is being, in my opinion, classic passive aggressive. And the prosecutor is being aggressive/aggressive.

So I want to bring in a psychologist, Jeff Gardere. We`ve all had people who are passive/aggressive goad us into losing our tempers, and they remain cool, calm and collected and show, no, they`re the rational ones. Because even though they`ve goaded you by taunting you, they don`t end up being the one who yells and screams.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Is he falling for the passive aggressive game here?

GARDERE: She is playing the passive aggressive game, and it`s telling us a lot about Jodi Arias. And the way she`s doing it is point- counterpoint, saying she doesn`t remember. Letting this prosecutor know that he`s scrambling her brains. Kind of pointing the finger at him.

And exactly what you said, Jane. She is not losing a beat. She is not raising her tone in any way. And we know it`s working, because he`s getting flustered. He`s getting frustrated. And he`s kind of falling into her little game there. It`s not smart.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, he`s not always doing that. I think he takes a break and then he come back and he scores some of his biggest points when he`s cool, calm and collected. And absolutely becomes aware that she is trying to get him to lose control.

Let`s go to the phone lines. Marissa, Pennsylvania, your question or thought. Marissa.

CALLER: Thank you for everything you do for the animals, by the way. We appreciate it.

And I wanted to say, I think the bottom line is that when Jodi killed him, when she went over there, she wanted to have sex with him in order to try to convince him not to take this other woman to Cancun. When he clearly said no, I think she lost it and said, OK, I`ll be the last woman you ever have sex with. And the last woman you ever saw. So she just let him have it and killed him with such rage. Because she in her mind thought, "Ha! Now I am the last one you will ever be with."

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, Marissa, excellent point. Beth Karas, who knows this case backwards and forwards, better than anyone, Beth Karas, set it up in terms of what was happening at the time that she kills Travis in term of this Cancun trip and who he`s going to take.

BETH KARAS, CORRESPONDENT, TRUTV`S "IN SESSION": Well, you know, she did say today on the stand that she knew he wasn`t taking her. And that he was going to be taking someone else.

So Marissa may be absolutely right that the state will argue something like that happened. We`ll never know for sure, however.

Now she was living apart from Mesa, Arizona. She was back in -- 1,000 miles away in northern California for two months at the time of this. But the state says that she made a decision to kill him and took steps the week before killing him to carry it out.

And that she entered into, I don`t know. She engaged in conduct that would hide her identity. Turning her up -- her license plate upside-down. Dyeing her hair from blond to darker brown, because no one in Mesa knew her as a brunette. So that this was planned.

Now maybe she went in there thinking, "I`ll give him one more chance. Take me, please, to Cancun." When he said no, that was it. But we`ll never know. It is fair comment on the evidence, though. We could hear that in argument at the end.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And all those things that you brought together, the prosecutor is going to weave together in closing argument.

On the other side of the break, is this all going on too long? Are the jurors fed up? We`ll discuss it, debate it.




MARTINEZ: So the answer is it`s again the prosecutor`s fault. Because you perceive him to be angry, right?

ARIAS: It`s not your fault.

MARTINEZ: Well, is somebody asking you whose fault it is?

ARIAS: You did.

MARTINEZ: Well, you seem to be pointing it at the prosecutor, right? So you believe the reason that you can`t be effective on the witness stand is because somebody is asking you questions in a way you don`t like.

ARIAS: I think that was a compound question.




ARIAS: ... who would tell me the things that -- the things that he would like to be happening when he came up to visit me. But in a G-rated manner.

And the things that he wanted to do, as far as traveling, where we would go, what we would do. And then it wasn`t like -- I wasn`t the reason, the agenda for him coming up. That was the big part of it. He was going to continue on to Washington, see friends there, and then come all the way back down and see the Pacific Coast Highway. It eventually became sex.


ARIAS: It was always mutual, yes.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, you heard it right there, "48 Hours." Back in 2008 Jodi says, oh, the sex was always mutual. Well, when it came time for her to face trial, she started claiming Travis demeaned her and degraded her, made her feel like prostitute and a used piece of toilet paper.

So let`s debate it. Has the prosecutor really hammered home the idea that she was not only a willing participant but quite often a sexual aggressor? And enjoyed kinky sex games?

Or can they still come back on redirect and reestablish that he, according to them, sexually degraded her, therefore she is a battered woman?

Let`s start with Brian Silver for the defense.

SILVER: Well, you know, what the prosecutor should be doing is, first of all, hitting this very succinctly, very directly and quickly. He`s wasting way too much time losing this jury by questioning her for days. He should be listening to every single instance that she relies on and getting into the details. Because if he asks her about the details and she`s lying, that`s where she`s going to fall apart.

LIEBERMAN: That`s been happening. What trial are you watching? That`s been happening since the first moment, asking her about ponytails.

SILVER: Are you kidding? He`s asking about KY jelly versus baby oil.

LIEBERMAN: ... details. But...

SILVER: That`s ridiculous.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Listen, I`ll tell you what I think he should do. She [SIC] was stabbed 29 times. I think, Wendy Murphy, he should say, "So you don`t remember the first stab? You don`t remember the second stab? You don`t remember the third stab?"

LIEBERMAN: I agree with that.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: "You don`t remember the fourth? The fifth, the sixth, seventh, eighth, ninth, tenth, eleventh, twelfth, thirteenth, fourteenth, fifteen, sixteen" -- on and on until 29 stab wounds. That would get the point home, Wendy Murphy.

MURPHY: Yes. I mean, they may do that at the end. It`s almost so obvious that they don`t really have to do that, because it sounds so stupid already. You don`t want to make the jury think...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I thought it sounded very effective, thank you very much.

MURPHY: Let me say this. Let me say this. One of the things that is really hard for the defense here is that she overkilled, right? So it`s not reasonable in self-defense to chop a guy up, cut off his head and shoot him. It just in not logical, unless there`s something really, really weird going on.

So turning this into a little bit of a weird sex case is working thematically for the defense, because we`re all go, "Aaa!"

But as long as she comes out as the aggressor or the equal in the end, that whole defense goes fizzledy-boom. Because now they`re seeing not the 12-year-old pretend librarian who speaks like this in the courtroom. They`re hearing about "I can`t wait until you do me and I do you, and I`m going to bring the jelly." I mean, she is not the person they`re watching in the courtroom.

And the -- you know, the prosecutor has to take that image away. And that`s what happened today. And it`s important for the prosecution to deal with that.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, Drew Findling, I agree with Wendy Murphy. That the defense drew this portrait, and the prosecution is just erasing it.

FINDLING: So let me point this out. I`m now going to defend Jane. So I`m going back to what you said, Jane.

Actually, what you did is what we call in the business, those of us that cross-examine all the time. It`s called spontaneous looping. It`s listen for a factual predicate and hammering it home.

And you are right. If you want to effectively prosecute this case, you go through the 29 stabs. And here to me was what was pivotal today. When she said something to the effect, Jane, of "I only tell the truth," once she did that, the great cross-examiners, whether they be prosecutors or defense, take that and take every single alleged lie that she said. And some of them aren`t alleged lies, they`re lies. And say...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: She said that she wasn`t there. She said ninjas do it.

FINDLING: It doesn`t make a difference. You use her answer over and over, and you only were going to tell the truth when you said this? And that`s when you take 30, 40 minutes. Two hours to do it.

MURPHY: You don`t hit the nail -- you don`t hit the nail on the head when the nail is already all the way through the other side of the wood.

FINDLING: No, no. Because what he`s doing -- no.

MURPHY: You don`t have to do that in this case. It would be embarrassing.

FINDLING: No, it`s not embarrassing.

MURPHY: The jury is not stupid.


MURPHY: They`re not slugs.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Jon Lieberman, quickly.

LIEBERMAN: Well, one thing that Mr. Martinez did also is, he showed that she`s not a battered woman. She praised Travis Alexander repeatedly after she killed him. Both in the diary, in the memorial service, talking about what a beautiful person he was inside and out.

If she were a battered woman, she had nothing to be scared of any more. Travis was already dead. Yet, she was still speaking glowingly about him, even after she killed him.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And we can play that clip. Jordan Rose, quickly.

ROSE: How stupid and naive could this jury possibly be? And here she testifies on the one hand that she believes that it is absolutely against the Mormon faith for a man to flirt with a woman. But yet, she thinks it`s OK to have oral sex. I mean, that`s just ridiculous.

And one thing after another, as Juan Martinez questions her, comes out like this.


ROSE: So it becomes sort of a situation where you`re supposed to believe, but yet, she`s -- her trustworthiness has gone just out the window. And he`s done a good job.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Her -- literally, her logic makes no sense. But the emotional argument underneath it, will it still resonate somehow with some of the jurors? We`ll see.

We`ll play some more clips. Much more debate and big moments from court today. And there were so many of them.

On the other side, we`re also going to talk to a woman Jodi accused was having an affair with Travis. And she said that`s a big fat lie. And she`s going to tell us why it`s a lie right on the other side.

At the top of the hour, don`t miss Nancy Grace with her take on the Jodi Arias trial. Eight Eastern, right here on HLN.

More on the other side.





JUAN MARTINEZ, PROSECUTOR: That wasn`t the truth.

ARIAS: No. That was not the truth.

MARTINEZ: Isn`t it true you did not tell the truth to Detective Flores?

ARIAS: That`s true.

I was not allowed to be confrontational with Travis.

MARTINEZ: Would you like it if I stood over here like your counsel was asking you the questions? Would that make you feel more comfortable?

TRAVIS ALEXANDER, MURDER VICTIM: You are right, in the bath. It was hot.

ARIAS: Oh, when we took a bath together. You were amazing. You made me -- seriously you made me feel like a goddess.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why did he say this kind of sex was ok?

ARIAS: I didn`t think he was serious. He said it is underwater so it doesn`t count.

MARTINEZ: You`re saying that you need to take some more time between questions to answer them? Are you having problems understanding again what`s going on?

ARIAS: Sometimes because you go in circles.

MARTINEZ: He described you as his kryptonite, right.



VELEZ-MITCHELL: This was war today, the prosecutor going head to head with Jodi Arias over everything from sex to snooping and accommodation thereof. The prosecutor trying to prove Jodi has a history of snooping into her boyfriends` personal accounts. She claimed while looking through Travis` personal MySpace messages, she found racy exchanges with another woman. Listen.


MARTINEZ: The woman that was involved there was married, right?

ARIAS: Yes, she was married.

MARTINEZ: And what was the woman`s name?

ARIAS: I don`t want to destroy anyone`s marriage.

MARTINEZ: So, what was the woman`s name?

ARIAS: Shannon Crabtree Peterson. By LDS standards, what they were talking about was very inappropriate.

MARTINEZ: But all they were doing was talking, right?

ARIAS: They were joking about getting together for a sexual liaison.



VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, guess who we have on our show right now -- the one and only Shannon Crabtree Peterson joining us to tell her side of the story. Shannon, we`re delighted to give you an opportunity to respond to this very serious accusation by Jodi that you had an inappropriate relationship with Travis Alexander during your marriage. What do you have to say? We want to hand you an opportunity to set the record straight.

SHANNON CRABTREE PETERSON, FRIEND OF TRAVIS ALEXANDER: Well, thanks. I appreciate that. I did not have an inappropriate relationship with Travis. He was a very good friend to me. He helped me through kind of a hard time in my life. And we did keep in touch after he left for Mesa and moved but that`s about it.

We exchanged some e-mails every now and then. He was very friendly funny and sometimes flirtatious but they were in no ways sexual in nature at all.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, let me ask you this. You say you exchanged communications. She claims that she saw something that seemed inappropriate. Is there any way -- because we know that Travis liked to joke -- who doesn`t? I like to joke. It doesn`t make me a bad person either.

Is there anything that he might have said that might have been misinterpreted by her or is she just lying through her teeth in your opinion?

PETERSON: In my opinion, she is just lying. Travis, like I said, he was sometimes flirtatious but he was that way no matter who he was with. He could have been that way in front of my husband. I think he flirted with my mother when he met her for the first time. He was openly flirtatious.

I think she even said that. He was just friendly with everybody. He didn`t care, you know. He didn`t care. That was his personality. It was very innocent and very endearing as a personality.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, what do you know of Travis Alexander? She has tried to paint him as somebody who used the cloak of religion to sexually demean her -- pardon being graphic here but this is part of her case. That he baptized her. We know that`s true. And then claims a few hours later he pressured her into having anal sex. Is that the person you knew? Or do you think that that too might be a lie?

PETERSON: That`s not the person that I knew. I think that could be a lie. I don`t think that she`s -- she`s obviously not lying about their sexual relationship. But I mean he was a 30-year-old single man. Of course, he was having sex with a girl who is throwing herself at him. That`s not unbelievable. I don`t know.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, I know. Thank you. I know it is a difficult subject for all of us. Let me tell you, we`ve had many awkward moments trying to prepare this show every night.

The prosecutor jumped on the opportunity to compare Jodi`s concern with Travis and Shannon`s alleged conversation which she now says never happened, to Jodi`s own behavior. Listen to this.


MARTINEZ: Did you know back in February of 2007 when you were making these judgments, that having oral intercourse was against the teachings of the Mormon faith?

ARIAS: At that time, no, I did not know.

MARTINEZ: So you believe that just kidding about things is against the Mormon religion but not oral intercourse? Is that what you`re saying?

ARIAS: With a spouse who is married in the temple, yes.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: So Shannon, again, another awkward question in an awkward case. Is it possible for anybody who is -- becomes a Mormon and learns about the church teachings, to think that certain kinds of sexual behavior like oral and anal sex are ok but flirting is not? Or is it basically pretty clear that you can`t do any of it?

PETERSON: You know, I`ve been a member of the church my entire life so I have been taught from a very early age. So I don`t know that it is possible. She seems like a pretty intelligent person. I think she is somebody who can differentiate right from wrong. I don`t believe that she didn`t know that wasn`t the case. I kind of believe she corrupted Travis but that`s just because I knew Travis before he ever met Jodi and I knew who he was.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Last question, Shannon. Travis was described as the old man in the ward because it is encouraging Mormonism, I understand, to get married early. Is it common for people to lead double lives? And again, that`s no excuse to kill somebody. But then essentially pretend to be a virgin and then secretly have sex with somebody who is willing to do it, who is outside of the -- maybe didn`t grow up in the religion? Is that a dichotomy? I`m sure people struggle with it. Obviously sex is a natural human urge.

PETERSON: Yes. I`m sure that people struggle with it. I don`t know that it is so common. I would not say common. But I`m sure there are many, many cases of people who, you know, have sex before they get married that are members. I mean, I know personally of many who have done. It is not something you talk about because obviously it is not looked great upon with the church if you`re having sex when you`re not married.

So yes, it is not something that I would imagine people would just be shouting from the roof tops.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, Shannon, I want to thank you for taking the time to call us and also to share your story. I`m glad that we gave you the opportunity to set the record straight as far as what you believe happened and didn`t happen because if what you`re saying is accurate, and I have no reason to disbelieve you. This is another lie of Jodi Arias on the stand.

More on the other side.


ARIAS: I`m more angry and outraged that his life was taken. And that he had so much potential. He was a light. And he had so many -- he brightened a room when he walked in. He literally brightened the room. And you know, for someone like that, it almost seems like the world is a darker place now that he`s not in it anymore.

I can`t imagine what his family is going through. I love my brother so much. And I know that he had a lot of siblings and I just cannot imagine what it would be like to get a phone call to hear that something happened to one of my brothers.



VELEZ-MITCHELL: While we`re covering the Jodi Arias trial, we`re also tracking other important cases. One moment of violence sparked national outrage and brings tens of thousands on the streets. It was a year ago today George Zimmerman shot and killed unarmed teenager Trayvon Martin. Zimmerman called it self-defense. Trayvon`s family called it cold-blooded. We are weeks away from the start of Florida vs. Zimmerman with the battle over "stand your ground" and we will have right here on the show, complete coverage, 7:00 p.m. Eastern. Keep it here for the very latest on all the important cases in our country.



ARIAS: This is me just prior to my plastic surgery. He wanted to see them and I was too embarrassed to show him my pre-surgery breasts.

MARTINEZ: And you kept these photographs, right?

ARIAS: I guess I did. They`re there.

MARTINEZ: The only purpose for these photographs is of a sexual nature, right?


MARTINEZ: No. They were medical photos. They were before shots for my surgery for that purpose.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Such graphic testimony throughout this trial. And today the prosecutor focused on photos of breast implants that Jodi had taken or was taken by her previous boyfriend of her before she had her breast implant surgery.

I want to ask Jeff Gardere, clinical psychologist, does the prosecutor get into tricky territory here if he`s trying to make that into a sexual thing when she claims these were medical photos that she took and she had a before and after. I mean could he risk offending, who knows if a woman, there are seven women on the jury might have had breast implants.

JEFF GARDERE, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, as you said earlier, there are millions of women who get breast implants. Some do it because they want to build their self-esteem. Others, it is just their own personal choice as to what they want to do.

And if you are a man, in this case, a prosecutor, and you`re treading in that kind of situation, I think that you are literally stepping on a land mine and you have to be very, very careful that you don`t offend the female jurors.

If he`s trying to prove that she had some self-esteem issues or that she wasn`t a truthful individual, then if he stays there, it is ok. I think it is a slippery slope, Jane.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. I think that he didn`t need to go there. They got plenty of other sex photos and sex calls and sex this and sex that. And I think that that could back fire.

Let`s go to the phone lines. Peggy, Arizona -- your question or thought, Peggy.

PEGGY, ARIZONA (via telephone): Hi, Jane, I love your show.


PEGGY: Jane, pathological liars need time to respond to questions so they can control the discussion. I would love for Mr. Martinez to ask her, "Am I not giving you time to spin your answers?"

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Ok. Well, let me ask you, Wendy Murphy, can he do that? You`re a former prosecutor, is that legit?

WENDY MURPHY, FORMER PROSECUTOR: No. No. I mean look, there are a lot of questions we would like to ask Jodi. I would like to just slap her in the head. But you can`t do that. You can`t mock a person because it is really all about the jury. You want the jury to know that you respect the room. You respect the process. You`re going to give this person a fair trial even if everyone in the room is laughing at what a big fat liar she is. You can`t go there in such a bold sense because the room itself matters more.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, hasn`t done that though on certain occasions today, Drew Findling --


VELEZ-MITCHELL: -- when they were having a fight. We`ll play it on the other side. He said maybe you could answer me if I stand here at the podium.

FINDLING: Absolutely. Wendy, great advice. You need to get online with the prosecutor and give him that advice because that`s what he`s done. He`s made a mockery of the courtroom. Are you kidding me? What is this -- second year law school? Is it better for you if I stand here? That`s juvenile, sophomoric. It has no place in the courtroom.

And remember this, Jane and the viewers ok? This is her first trial. This is supposed to be -- he`s seasoned, so many trials. For him to fall into that trap is really silly and it is making a mockery and I cite Wendy Murphy -- great point. I`m with you all the way.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. I`m going on give Jordan Rose ten seconds to rebut.

JORDAN ROSE, ATTORNEY: Yes. The thing is with this prosecutor is he`s been effective. I mean look at when she actually snapped, she snapped on the stand when asked about the guy that she went, after she stabs him 29 times, she goes and beds some guy in Utah. And the prosecutor asks her about that. And she says, well, maybe that guy is full of bleep. I mean she lost it for a second.

And I think the more he questions like this, the more chance that she will show her true nature as a psychotic killer.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Will Jodi ever crack on the stand? On the other side.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Jodi Arias could join three other women currently sitting on Arizona`s death row if a jury finds her guilty as charged. A first-degree murder conviction could land Arias in line for what has recently become one of the nation`s busiest death chambers. The state carries out all post 1992 convictions by lethal injection. And now permits witnesses to watch prisoners put to death.



VELEZ-MITCHELL: Time for "Pet o` the Day". Send your pet pics to hlntv.com/jane. Kevin -- oh, you make the snow fun. How do you like that? And Speedy -- Speedy says I`m going to stop for one second just to take a picture. Blanca is cute stuff. She says it`s lip smacking good. Bella, I love that jacket. Where did you get it?




MARTINEZ: Would it make you feel more comfortable if I stood over here and used the lectern?

ARIAS: Where you stand won`t make a difference to my comfort.

MARTINEZ: So it changes from moment to moment?

ARIAS: Sometimes, yes.

MARTINEZ: Would you be more comfortable if I stood here?


MARTINEZ: Would you be more comfortable if I stood back here?

ARIAS: It`s not necessarily just dependent upon the prosecutor.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. There you have the prosecutor being, I would say, sarcastic. Well, would it be better if I stood here? And his point is a legitimate point. You keep sidestepping my questions and saying that your brain is scrambled when you don`t want to answer something. But is this the way to make the point?

And let`s debate it starting with Brian Silber.

BRIAN SILBER, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Absolutely not. That is not how you conduct yourself during cross examination. You ask the question and you let the jury observe the answer. The purpose of cross is not to argue or badger the witness. You`ll tie it up later on in closing arguments. Remember when I asked her this and she said her brain was scrambled? That`s how you tie it up. Not by not acting like a gentleman.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jordan Rose. Jordan Rose.

ROSE: Yes, but I mean look at her. She is so smug. You can see her sort of smirking under her fake glasses with those five little bangs sticking out and she, you know, I think he`s doing exactly the right thing. She is becoming combative and he`s catching her off guard and the more he hammers at her and the more this goes on, while it`s tedious, he`s making the case that she`s a liar.

SILBER: Absolutely not. He`s joining her on her level. No way. He should be conducting himself like a gentleman lawyer and he`s not doing it.


JON LEIBERMAN, HLN CONTRIBUTOR: Jodi is the one who`s being disrespectful to the court.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Should Jodi stop talking -- should we end this incredibly long show on the witness stand? Next.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Quick round robin, should prosecutor Martinez wrap it up now? Starting with Drew Findling.

FINDLING: Yes, he needs to know he`s not in a high school debate competition and do a tight cross-examination.


ROSE: As much as I hate to prolong the agony, I think he needs to make his case and keep going until he breaks her.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jon Leiberman?

LEIBERMAN: You only get one shot at Jodi Arias. He can take as long as he wants. I think he goes for the jugular tomorrow.


SILBER: The longer he clowns around, the less likely he is to win so, yes, you`ve got to wrap it up already.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Last but not least, Wendy Murphy?

MURPHY: He got her today to admit she`s a liar, she`s the sexual aggressor. I guarantee tomorrow the prosecution will end this.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And we will be here for it all. Nancy next.