Brazilian Judge Discusses Case Involving American Swimmers

Judge Marcello Rubioli is the head of the special court that is handling the case involving four American swimmers at the Rio Games.CreditCreditPedro Kirilos/O Globo

RIO DE JANEIRO — Judge Marcello Rubioli is the head of the special court handling the case involving four American swimmers — Gunnar Bentz, Jack Conger, Ryan Lochte and Jimmy Feigen — and their claim that they were held up at gunpoint here early Sunday morning. This interview has been condensed and edited.

When did doubts first surface?

The special police precinct for tourists and foreigners started investigating because the swimmers’ stories were quite contradictory. So with the support of this court, they went to the athletes’ village to start obtaining copies of videos, images, and started an investigation to find out what really happened. Then a suspicion began that the crime they had described was not real.

Why do the civil police think the swimmers were lying?

Given how crime occurs in this city, if they were robbed in Rio de Janeiro, they would not still have had their cellphones, their watches, their clothes, their wallet or their shoes. They would not have been left with anything.

The video also has evidence.

It also appears that they have contradictory versions of their story.

Just the simple fact that they don’t want to clear up the discrepancies and they fled (or tried to flee) the country reinforces the suspicions that their original story is a lie. So we’re waiting for them to clarify what happened.

There are very strong indications that, at the minimum, what they told the police had happened is a lie, which is a crime in Brazil.

Why do you think the information they provided is conflicting?

That’s mainly due to the video. It contradicts what they told the police. There exist many contradictions that need to be clarified.

Is making a false claim a serious crime?

The truth is that this crime in Brazil is not that serious. It results in very little punishment. If they are found guilty, they would just have to make a payment to an NGO that does humanitarian work. It’s not a serious crime. It’s not a crime that is going to send them to prison. It’s not a crime that’s going to prevent them from returning home.

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A spokesman for the Games in Rio defended four American Olympic swimmers whose accounts of an armed robbery over the weekend are under question by the Brazilian police, saying they are just kids.CreditCreditPascal Le Segretain/Getty Images

If Lochte returns to Brazil, could that help him?

Yes, of course.

Is it possible the swimmers did not do anything wrong?

Of course. They have a right to a fair defense and the presumption of innocence.

Who is in Brazil now?

Lochte left on Aug. 15 at 18:40. The federal police don’t have any registered movement for Feigen. It has not registered that he left Brazil.

This seems to be a very strange case. What do you think happened?

As a judge, I can’t yet cast suspicions. I want to know what happened. The police have suspicions. I can’t make a prejudgment, but I need this process to continue and be followed.

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Two American swimmers, Jack Conger and Gunnar Bentz, were removed from a flight on Thursday and questioned by Brazilian authorities as part of an investigation into a reported robbery.CreditCreditChris McGrath/Getty Images

Brazilians, particularly in Rio de Janeiro, normally have little confidence in the police. Yet as the police raise doubts about the swimmers, many are taking their word at face value. How can we be confident that the police are telling the truth?

I understand that concern. The role of the police is to investigate the facts.

If there is a lack of confidence in the police, then the judge is independent and does not have interests in either side and does not seek to harm or favor either one.

This is not a third-world system of justice, where having a real defense is some fiction.

Perhaps the fact that the swimmers said they were assaulted by officers — real or fake — has made the police here adopt a more defensive posture and lash out at them.

I understand. But if it really were policemen that attacked or robbed them, then they need to be identified. In the final analysis, it’s important to get rid of these people from the police force.

Has the taxi driver who drove the swimmers the night of the incident been located?

I think the police have identified the taxi driver. I think it was an Uber driver.