Wednesday, December 15, 2010

The Sundering - Warwhinger Rage (Guest Post)

Today I'm going to have a guest post from a friend of mine, Brad Morin (skabradisdead) who lives in Melbourne. Brad is an ex-GW US staffer and all round nice guy. He publishes a blog which I always find a good read.

Here he sums up a lot of frustration that is going on in the Australian scene....I like to call it "The Sundering"....which alone in the world has really struggled with the transition to 8th Edition. There's been a lot of tosh written about "how the veterans built the game" and it's disrespectful not to listen to them now as they know what they are talking about. Anyway I'll leave it to Brad:

Well the introduction of 8th edition in Warhammer Fantasy Battle shaken up an otherwise generally stable community of gamers. Yes there are some major game changes (6th to 7th was more of a rules tweek than a proper edition change) that need to be considered. The hardest ones to swallow it seems are steadfast and the “Over the Top” magic system.
I am here to say that this is not your Dad’s warhammer. It is a new system with rules that interact completely differently than they did before. There are groups of very vocal gamers in other parts of Australia that have been publishing page upon page of vitriol on for some time now. It started as whining. Then it turned to rage quitting and then it lead to a constant campaign to lure Warhammer players away from the scene to play warmachine. (Not everyone mind you truly fits this category and if you like warmachine God bless you that is fine with me). It has gotten to the point that people in other countries have contacted me and others I know to ask what the heck our problem is. It is an embarrassment within our hobby.
This madness has got to stop. It is pushing away new gamers and making “newcomers” to the scene (like me) want to rage quit. If you don’t want to play the game… Don’t! But leave me alone. I don’t like warmachine… sorry I just don’t like it. I want to play Warhammer.
I flew up to Orktoberfest earlier this year to play in a fantasy tourney and in the midst of the top tables a few of the (former) “Warhammer Elite” had set up a game of warmachine. Fine… They were friends with the TO. Whatever. Come game 5 though I get the draw and I am scheduled t play on that table. WTF? I walk up and politely inquire about using the table (that I have been assigned) only to get laughed at and told to find an empty table. While I should have caved someone’s skull in with my figure case at that point I did not. I played nice. I assure you next time I will not.
This just emphasises for me the arrogance of some people in the community. People think that they know better after a few games that the people that wrote the game system. I can safely say now with 6 8th ed tournies under my belt that IT WORKS THE WAY IT IS WRITTEN! Yes I have faced the endless horde. Yes I have had crazy magic work for and against me. If you play the missions as written it really does balance the game nicely.

People with huge hordes will have few banners and will loose that mission.

Hordes cannot start in buildings and they loose their ranks and other benefits when they are in a building.

That OTT magic… Well it houses large units as do war machines.

Leave 8th ed alone… Evolve or move on and most of all leave my player packs alone.

I like 8th the way it was written...

My thoughts are that 8th is a different game. Less about distance and angle micromanagement and more about risk management. The luck quotient has increased IMO from about 15% to 25%. Does this make it a lesser game? No, not at all. You now have to factor a series of likely, possible and potential events into your planning. A lot of people appear not to like that or not to want to do it. That's cool....I'm glad you like Warmachine. But please leave 8th alone...or more importantly keep your stooges/acolytes/whatever away from 8th Ed players pack.

As it stands I think there is only one item that is clearly brken in 8th - The Power Scroll. I have won and lost games to Big magic. When I win because of it I smile, when I lose I laugh - and I've a few games to Dweller's now. But shit happens. Deal with the fact you lost at toy soldiers and move on.

I like is far more fun. It takes different skills from v7....but then Rugby Union requires different skills from Rugby League - unless you are Sonny Bill Williams!


  1. As always Pete you are more eloquent that this bald American. Love your work... Maybe I should just still to playing in tourneys in NZ...

  2. Nice write up guys, I had heard that the WM guys had set up for some games at oktoberfeast. It was sad to hear that some were being less then gentlemen.
    It was then with some interest I got a PM from Dave Potts who is now a WM player and down at Arcanicon Melbourne this Jan. longweekend.
    Here's his PM
    [QUOTE]Hey Nasher,

    I don't wish to debate this with you on the forums.

    I think you've been a major contributor to the whole scene collapsing on itself - you've consistently attacked anyone who saw the writing on the wall long before you did and knew that something needed to be done about it...

    Oh well - i won't be commenting any more on the FB forums, or with you - good luck with it all mate, I hope you are happy with the scene you've created for yourself.

    He's not accepting my PM's LOL.

    I'll give it a year to see what happens with WM, it'll be interesting.

  3. Interesting comments there brad, I really hope a lot of people who stand by the game don't get to put out by the nay sayers. At the end of the day the game is fun if your playing a pool of 20 guys or a pool of 100 and I have total confidence that this fact will develop the tourney scene on its own with time. For the mean time I aim to stick with the game and enjoy rolling the dice.


  4. Hey Nasher, this is David Potts - the person that sent you the PM.

    I thought I was being quite the gentlemen and taking a dispute off the boards, but I can see that you just can't help yourself. :)

    I made that comment after being attacked personally on a number of occasions by you for voicing my opinion on the new edition, including in your rapidly edited message after mine.

    It's a shame you didn't feel the need to provide the background to my PM on these boards since you have decided to bring it up.

    There were a number of people, yourself included, who were chastising the UK Masters players for the lists they were taking to that event.

    I merely pointed out that it was not the players that were the issue, and people shouldn't be commenting on their choice to bring those lists. Those players were simply writing the sort of lists that the current system was designed to promote.

    You then felt the need to attack me personally over it, that's fine... You are entitled to do that, but I find it quite sickening that you can talk about 'gentlemanly behaviour' in the same paragraph.

    As to Orktoberfest - there were a group of people that turned up there to watch the event, talk to their mates, and catch up for a game on a spare table in the hall. You perhaps didn't notice other people playing bloodbowl and other people playing boardgames around the venue throughout the weekend.

    How dare they, those bastards! Those cads!

    I can't believe they took up QGG's offer inviting people to come down to use the spare tables to play games.

    Anyway - after reading your post, and others since, I stand by my comments that I wish you well with what you are building for yourself here. :)

    I'm sure that systematically stomping people into the mud is sure to bring them back around in the long run.

    I'll leave it here, take the 'high road' as such - I just wanted to let others, Pete included, know the background to my message to you.

    I'm sure you'll feel the need to continue the argument in public on a number of different forums, but i'll leave it to you and your gentlemanly behaviour.

  5. Dear Mr. pottsy.
    Try and take the following in a positive manner. :)

    Well Pottsy that a big statement, me attacking the UK masters list, would you care to speak to Bobo and Dan heelan like I've been doing and hear what they have to say on the matter??. It's clear to me you're not up to speed with whats going on.
    Personnally attcking you, I believe you are overly sensetive, discussing things or making a point is not a personel attack Pottsy. If you won't allow me to PM you then don't think I'm not allowed to discuss it else where.
    As for Octoberfeast, well having dozen's of people discussing with me that they were not happy with some rude behaviour again shows you're not up to speed, to what really happened.
    The WHFB scene is much better now, more fun and just as competative without the X -WHFB gamers who have gone over to that "Fantasy Battle Tech" game. It seems that the old WM players are somewhat annoyed with the new influx of converts behavior. Interesting, but I'm sure you'll brush that off, just like the fact that WHFB is now doing very well without you.
    The WHFB scene is more then alive mate, it's growing from strength to strength, and we're all loving it.
    If you start looking at a cup half full Pottsy, instead of half empty, you might discover a whole new world.
    Sean Davis