A Woman's Touch









  • Expect them to be fraternity men.  Tolerate nothing less.



  1. Favorite goes to: "If your boyfriend is a hazer, ask him if that's how he'll raise his kids." Thank you as always John! :)

  2. "A formal is a tradition in which men act like gentlemen and women act like ladies. Expect the former and do the latter." ---so important overall

  3. kudos on the "Expect Them to be Fraternity Men. Tolerate nothing less."

  4. Brilliant as always, John. Thanks for sharing!

  5. As a sorority advisor-I adore this list. I am sorry to admit it-but I hated most, not all, but most of the Frat guys at my campus while I was active. But I loved to watch those who realy embodied the values and ideals of their fraternity. This will hopefully serve as an example to the (few) rotten apples, and will further pump up the men who are living up to this standard. Thanks!

  6. I appreciate this. I was once a victim of abuse at the hands of a fraternity member and his "brothers" were witness to it and did not stop it. I have lived with the scars for 5 years. I implore that this goes also to every man, not just men who are in a fraternity. I will honestly say that I know men that are true representatives of gentlemen and fraternities. I believe that everyone who frequents a college campus, whether for school, parties, socializing, or anything else should read this and take it to heart. Thank you for writing this.

  7. Wow John this is great! As a proud brother of my fraternity, I often find myself wishing we would get back to exemplifying those principles on which we were founded.

  8. Brilliant. The world would be so much better off with just that much more civility. Thank you!

  9. Thank you for writing this! I love the greek system and every member of my fraternity, but some of the daily (usually weekend) behavior of a select few of the members is what gives men in general a bad reputation. Furthermore, women seem to laugh it off as if it's just business as usual. It would be so refreshing to see men acting like gentlemen, and women, as always, must play the crucial role as motivators.

  10. Good Stuff but dang you didnt have to put the Q's on Blast like that, but its the Truth tho.

  11. I always hesitate to use a photo that indicts a particular fraternity or sorority, and hopefully people know not to paint the entire organization with the same brush. I found the photo of the flyer online, and it matched the message so I used it. Hopefully those Omega Psi Phi chapters with good sense and character don't take offense.

  12. I cannot agree more with this. As as fraternity man who makes his best effort to act like a gentlemen, it is definitely discouraging when the woman you've been conversing with (and honestly just hoping to get a just phone number from to call later that week) walks away with that "frat boy" who gives her her 6th shot of the night obviously intending to to get more than a phone number.

  13. Something about this rubs me the wrong way. Women are often the culprits when it comes to guys' behavior: it's same attitude that blames the skanky-looking girl for her rape or something. Yes, girls can definitely support good behavior by everyone, ladies included. But they're not responsible for bad guys behavior, nor are they in charge of changing it.

    Also, there's a fine line between demeaning attitudes towards women, and women expressing their sexuality. People like sex -- and I don't think a "Pimps and hoes" party would be a place to bring your parents, but it's a place for girls and guys to meet up as college-aged people do. That said, guys should always be respectful as you note in the other points ...

    But yeah: guys may spruce themselves up for the opposite sex, but if that's what's going to drive their types of guys' actions their whole lives, then they'll seek out those types of women who will be the most wild and crazy. The majority of "good guys" are good nonetheless. Character is being good when no one's looking.

  14. Sorry, but I think this post misses the mark. For one, it's very sexist to presume that men are what they are because of a woman's influence and without them, would be boorish. This post also purports of a level of heterosexism that I'm uncomfortable with, not to mention that it shouldn't be an expectation of sorority women to have to point out when fraternity men are being sexist and inappropriate. That's like asking people of color to be responsible for ending racism.

  15. Anon,

    He's not saying women are responsible for the way men act, he's saying we can play a role in setting expectations for them to act better!

    I work with Fraternity men, and I often refer to them as gentlemen, because thats how I expect that they act in my presence. To me that is a small example of how I set expectations. But is it my fault if they act like fools?..heck no!

    However I'm awfully concerned that in one paragraph you are saying society blames women for abuse and rape (often true) But in the next saying a Pimps and Ho's party is acceptable. I can't see reason in this whatsoever.

    Thanks John for a great blog post!

  16. I think this idea of the entire greek or college community coming together to combat bad behavior that sometimes leads to egregious acts and in some cases, violence, is fantastic. It is a social problem on all campuses that groups of men (and in this case fraternity men) behave badly and the target is most often women.

    I am reminded of a story of when a friend of mine was walking by a fraternity house and they held up pieces of paper with numbers rating her physical features and the size of her breasts. When consulting with the University greek life and the National Fraternity Headquarters, the chapter issued her a statement. However, not anywhere in that statement was an apology or recognition that they were doing something bad or inappropriate. I am not sure that outward acts by women will change the cultural and social forces that allow men to act like this. And more so, I do not think that the responsibility of "changing men's behaviors and holding them accountable" should be up to women. Ultimately, these men should be holding each other accountable. For those fraternity men who wrote on this wall about fellow brothers acting badly in front of them, did you say anything to them? Did you hold each of them accountable for their own actions? Were they brought up to your internal honor council on possible ethical and value breaches?

    Unless there are some major education programs and holding everyone to a higher standard within groups of fraternity men and sorority women, I feel as though asking those women who interact with fraternity men to act better and do the dirty work that National fraternities should be doing is not going to work as well as you hope. Just some food for thought....

  17. Makes me glad I went to an undergraduate institution that outlawed Greek societies. We had neither frats nor sororities and we didn't miss them!

  18. AMEN to anon....it is most definitely NOT my responsibility to fix fraternity men...and when they continue to have as much power as they do, asking undergraduate women to fix the problem is totally inappropriate. it is unsafe for sorority women to "correct" this bad behavior in so many ways.

  19. Fr, Funston - I hope you did not think you had a problem free community jusy because FSL was not part of your campus? - We all know better...John thank you for a though provoking piece and challenging us to think about how we all contribute to the problem when we do not act.

  20. It really disgusts me how castration always seems to be requisite to "advancing the men's fraternity movement." Why are you as a parent asking social organizations to instill values and principles that should be instilled at home long before they reach fraternity ripeness?

    They call them social organizations because fraternities and sororities exist to provide a gathering point to meet other students and most often students of the opposite sex. To try and loft this purpose to a higher ground that should have been trodden at home is at best naive and at worst destructive to the social Greek system.

    Students don't join a social Greek organization because they miss their parents and being told how to act. They join because they want to meet other students, have a good time (read: get laid) and belong to something special beyond the university they attend.

    Quit fooling yourself that a fraternity or sorority will foster more respect, responsibility, dignity or values into your child than were instilled when they were under your fulltime care. Expect that they will be exposed to the worst a drunken or drugged adolescent can dream up and pray you gave them the brains to figure out when the limit of decency has been broached and remove themselves from the situation.

    Your words may have been fueled by good intent, but they reek of parental laziness. Your son's hair could and should have been parted every day before school because you set that as a behavioural rule and he obeyed you out of respect for the rule and the consequences of not following the rule. Obviously, it wasn't all that important or you would have spent more time honing your parenting skills and less time bashing a system that, by design, is there to let kids be kids.

    I depart with a test question, Mr. Sensitivity: Would you have written this blog posting if the reason your son parted his hair was named Steve?

    Kids will be always kids. Parents aren't always parents. Quit trying to take the fun out of being Greek.

  21. I am sorry. But do not blame women for men's problems. This is appalling.

  22. Anon-
    To answer your question: ABSOLUTELY.

    You’re right – kids will always be kids. I’m asking them to be men and women.

    Don’t worry about my parenting. Trust me, by the time they get to college, they’ll have sense enough to stay as far away as possible from the kind of organization you describe. They'll join a fraternity instead.

  23. He is not blaming women for the poor actions of men. I believe he is pointing out how the bystander behavior of others directly effects the behaviors of their peers. If those people we are trying to impress are unimpressed by bad behavior, then the bad behavior may be mitigated. If society does not reward bad behavior then we will see a steep decline in behaviors that do not align themselves with the values of Fraternities.

    "Why are you as a parent asking social organizations to instill values and principles" We ask these organizations to instill values because each and everyone of them is founded on a set of values. Fraternities are not "social organizations" they are values based organizations. Each and every Fraternity and Sorority in America holds a set of values, and claim that they can improve the overall life of their members, by virtue of membership within that organization. When a Fraternity looses sight of this core promise to members their charters are revoked. Those charters detail the values to which the members must hold themselves to be considered Fraternity members.

  24. Great article and thank you to Ryan for saying what I was thinking while I read some of these posts and felt my skin crawl! Fraternities and Sororities are values based organizations!

  25. Good post, John. I do understand some concerns listed above that we don't want to place the full responsibility of changing men's behavior on women. However, we as a society (or as advisors to men's fraternities) certainly haven't done the best job of getting men to follow their values.

    So I don't see this as avoiding the point that "these men should be holding each other accountable" (or that men are responsible for their own behavior, which is the subject of numerous articles and books), but rather it helps us consider how women can be empowered to assist in the struggle.

  26. While I accept your point of view, while a bit sexist, I believe your thoughts would have been better directed toward Fraternity men calling our their brothers rather than asking the sorority women, but that wouldn’t have fit your story example. In the end, any man is going to clean up his act if he is looking to get into a lasting relationship, but not every college aged man is looking for a lasting relationship in itself. They’re still young and should be focusing on academia and service. Rather than asking the fine sorority women of our campuses to take up this calling, of which it is neither their responsibility nor creed, it would be better fit and more respectful to ask the brothers to adhere to their values and beliefs. That is, unless your faith in Fraternity men is already lost, in which case, feel free to dismiss my statement.

  27. I find this article to be very interesting. I don't think the author's purpose was to say women are responsible for the actions of men, but rather that we, as women, have the ability to influence. By no means do the actual fraternity men have no responsibility in their own choices and behavior - but the idea that the Greek system is very socially based speaks volumes to the influence women can have.

    That being said, I shared this article with a few of my sorority sisters, and it made me notice a detail the author overlooked. Many sorority women, as a part of the college culture, don't want men to necessarily "behave better." My sisters said that they attend frat parties in order to get alcohol and meet boys - not to further the mission of whatever frat it is. Frats don't perpetuate the "frat boy" stereotype alone. Anyone who is on a college campus that goes to events that the national fraternity might deem as not in line with their values is also responsible. Frats behaving in a way that is in line might make them unpopular on a campus, which would in turn lower recruitment numbers. It's kind of like the culture needs to change for the men to change, but the men need to change for the culture to change. Collegians expect entertainment, fun, booze from their fraternity men. And that goes for the girls, too - they want all of those things when they mix and meet with frat guys, too. So it's not as simple as saying women want those values, and thus instill them - sometimes women don't want them either.

  28. I mean, it's all about personal responsibility. I don't want my government, my parents, my friends, or my neighbors in charge or responsible if I fail towards my attitudes toward the opposite sex. If I fail, it's on me. End of story. To hold women responsible is wrong; to say they are to blame is downright insulting.

    If college aged "kids" need to grow up as you say, then our views of men and women do as well. We are responsible for our decisions and no one "makes" me act a certain way, nor should they be involved in conversations should I do something wrong. It's scary to say otherwise: it holds others accountable for the actions of another. The reason why that's acceptable to some readers is because men are somehow easily swayed by females in your extremely regressive view of gender roles. I say: that's completely wrong. It would not make any sense if the roles were reversed in the blog post above, and that's what PROVES your post is so wrongheaded: the inability to universalize the roles you lay out. Men and women are aggressors and should hold each other accountable. It's weirdly paternal and patriarchal -- and lets guys off the hook -- to say otherwise.

  29. I've already shared this with a bunch of people, including some sorority chapter advisors. great stuff. Ryan sums up my thoughts to the anon poster who doesn't seem to know the basis of Greek organizations, nor even how the term 'social' is used within them.
    They are 'social' organizations in that they are there to teach and stretch 'social skills'... which is exactly what this post is about: giving young women some skills to deal with what they probably will encounter and I hope will dislike... and pointing out to young men what sort of behavior they should be chastised for.

  30. About that long Anon post-
    I disagree entirely. I didn't join a Greek organization to "get laid." I joined because I was seeking a sisterhood where I would be around other women who would help me to become a better person and who share my values and beliefs, which are exemplified in the code of conduct we strive to live by. I am not the only woman who feels this way, certainly not the only member of Greek -women AND men. One of the fraternities I'm very close to strives to maintain a higher standard, one that defies the frat-boy stereotype, and they do an excellent job of it.
    College is supposed to be a time when students "find themselves," and in an environment like the one you describe Greek organizations to be, that's the best way to create people who are hedonistic and destructive, with no respect for anyone, let alone themselves. It seems to me that the best place to be is where you are held to a higher standard, and called to wear your letters well.
    Frankly, I'm insulted that it would be implied that to be Greek is to be a party animal whose favorite things in the world are booze, bud, and bitches. To ask that guys in Greek organizations behave as a FRATERNITY MAN and not a FRAT BOY is not "taking the fun out of being Greek."

  31. Oh, and I just realized you're an alum of the fraternity I always speak well of. Yay!

  32. I agree with the article in that women shouldn't associate with men who act in this fashion, for their own sake and to not encourage this type of behavior.

    Don't forget the men who don't exhibit these behaviors. As an undergrad from a fraternity who attempts to follow the values we're based upon, there are a few reasons this article may not come off well.

    The article focuses only on negative reinforcement of poor behavior. I doubt even the four year old in the example made the decision to change his style based on negative reinforcement. Was he made fun of by a girl at school? Did she comment on how messy and unkempt he looked?

    He likely made the decision because he wanted to impress her. In the same way, we should be urging sorority women to associate with fraternities based upon the quality of gentlemen a house contains - not the amount of free alcohol and parties it will provide.

    Similarly, this charge shouldn't just be to sorority women. Anyone who associates with these gentlemen reinforces their behavior. Within the Greek community and even individual houses there are many types of people. Fraternity men should be encouraged to tell their brother to take off the disgusting shirt, follow the rules, or leave that girl alone because it is against what they were founded on.

  33. As an active member of a Sorority, I think this is great! Of course it is not the responsibility of Sorority women to change the inappropriate behaviors of Fraternity men, but I don't see anything wrong with leading by example and thus encouraging Fraternity men to change and improve their own behaviors.

    It seems that the values and principles upon which the Greek system was originally created (college men and women collaborating and sharing ideas to enhance their educational experience and to serve their communities, etc.) has been lost, and overtaken by the so called "optimal" college experience of binge drinking and casual sex. I say this with the thought in mind that many, if not most, Sororities and Fraternities do, in fact, strive to live up to their values, and unfortunately, it only takes one chapter with poor intentions, or even one individual, to destroy the reputation of the Greek system as a whole.

    I absolutely believe that if the values and principles upon which each Greek organization was founded were honored and practiced consistently by all members of that organization, the personal values of individual members would be complimented and enhanced. I think it is important to keep in mind that college students are in an imperative developmental stage of life, and whether or not their parents instilled good values in them or not, being a member of a Greek organization that is driven by its principles and values can be a great contributor to the development of an intellectually well-rounded individual. I plan on instilling my own children (when I have them) with the values of my Sorority, and I hope that when they attend college they will become a part of a Greek organization that will continue to foster their intellectual growth and development, while strengthening their personal values.

    It is the responsibility of all members of the Greek system to live up to and represent the values and principles of our own chapters, and to hold each other accountable for our actions. Greeks, on average, have higher grade point averages, do more community service, and show more positive community involvement than college students in general. To whomever claims that Greeks are a negative influence on college campuses, and only spend their time boozing, and participating in other detrimental or disruptive behaviors, please do your homework and assure that your information sources are credible before you make such gross generalizations as “they join… to have a good time (read: get laid)...”, as this is, quite simply, an ignorant statement.

    John, I very much appreciate this article! Thank you.

  34. I believe this blog entry has good intentions but is a little misdirected. No matter how you say it, the whole point of this article is listing the ways in which women can help men improve their behavior. a) it's not/ shouldn't be a conscious responsibility of women to try to "better" or moralize the actions of men. This mirrors itself onto so many other aspects of men-centered society, with women as men's nurses/caregivers/moralizers etc. b) In terms of practicality, I'm not sure how far these techniques will get you. Yes, men might begin to change their ways strictly because of womens' reactions to said actions, but isn't this kind of missing the point of the REALIZATION that it is morally wrong to act the part of the typical frat guy? Shouldn't this be achieved by self-realiztion and introspection on the part of the man? Otherwise it's simply a reward system for guys--they are punished if they do certain things and praised if they correct the behaviors. Ultimately none of this matters unless the men truly believe in the morals behind it and are not just reacting to a "reward system". Also, making these realizations and judgements of morality is arguably a natural and neccessary part of growing up and becoming an adult.
    Again I understand the positive intentions of this article, but think the methods it describes promote a kind of modern version of traditional male/female roles.

  35. I love this post and completely appreciate you writing it. I have to say I appreciate everyone's point of views and can see where some of the "anon" comments are coming from. But I also think it's a good thing that a man has pointed out ways for women to help push men in the right direction.

    This is a topic very interesting for me, especially being straight out of college and witnessing how males (not just frat boys)treat women in college. I see this is interesting for many others as well. I have explored this topic and wrote a bit more in my blog, extending the idea of 'getting men on track' and hope we can continue the conversation, and as Shertzer says, maybe even change the course of history. http://bit.ly/dEQ924

    Thanks for the post Shertzer!

  36. This debate has become way too complicated. Mom was a sorority girl; Dad a frat guy. Both sons went Greek in different fraternities from their Dad and each other. Positive experiences for all 4 of us. Training comes from the home.

  37. Ah yes, because there's never been the drunken sorostitute with the chant of "she's horny, she's sleazy, she's so damn easy"

    Clean your own house first before you point at us.

  38. And who says anything is morally wrong?

    One half society says it's wrong, the other side says it isn't. And a lot of morals come from religion.
    If it's not against the law your moral expectations don't mean shit. Stop trying to force your lifestyle on others.


    Free speech. The school does something to them, their national sues the school. Turn the situation around where it's not a fraternity and it's just some random guys doing it.....would your friend have wrote a letter then? No.
    Omg, somebody said or did something you don't like. If you get upset over dumb shit like that then you're going to have a hard time in life.

  40. That's the reason the Purple Fraternity, I believe Delta Sigma Theta;s brothers are no longer on the campus I attend.

  41. To this past anonymous post, I am the one who wrote about a friend of mine passing by the fraternity men who rated her. I am 25 years old and my friend and I were both graduate students who taught undergraduate classes at a very large southern university. I am also an active alumna member of my National Sorority and currently hold a National Staff Position within my sorority. I also have a full time job and have been in the "real world" and experienced life for awhile now. I have not had a hard time in life because I hold people accountable for their questionable behavior that is harassment and borderlines violence. That type of behavior leads to a culture of violence against women and should be acknowledged and reprimanded. Not to mention, it is completely inappropriate for any person to rate a woman as they are walking by. Aren't there better things to do?

    However, my point is that these fraternity men were wearing letters, sitting outside of their fraternity house, and degrading people as they walked by. Not only did my friend feel unsafe while walking to her car but she felt degraded and completely disrespected. A mid-20 female walking to her car in the dark being yelled at by a large group (10+) men is not "dumb shit". It is a potentially dangerous situation. And yes, had it been just a group of men, she probably would have called the police. I know that I would have.

    The point is that when you join a Greek organization, you are called upon to uphold certain values and standards (for your particular fraternity I am sure you can find those values in your creed or fraternity book in case you haven't read it in awhile). If you don't get this fundamental basis of a greek organization, you have no business being in a fraternity. bottom line. I have come across a lot of people like you and what astonishes me is that the National organization NEVER hears from people like you ever again after college graduation. So, enjoy your college career and I hope you aren't recruitment director for your fraternity. And I can only hope that your fraternity chapter hasn't suffered a negative image on campus because of men like you who just don't get it.

  42. I completely think that everyone (including the author) missed the point here. If a male is acting out in a negative manner, the goal is not to be mean back! Two wrongs do not make a right and Greeks are generally better than to behave like that. Shame on you!

  43. I feel like this relates to one of my favorite quotes "all that is required for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing". This sums up why I took the position of pledge educator this semester and made a lot of changes including getting approval to have a pledge mom for the first time since they were banned. Every other fraternity has unofficial ones who do nothing but bake cookies, instead I developed an entire program for her and had her give weekly workshops with the pledges to teach them how to dress, how to act, proper manners and grooming and a lot of other things culminating in a pledge class dinner and speed dating social between my pledges and her new members at the end of the semester. We told them to apply what they learned and gave out an award for the guy who was voted the best date.

    While we instill those same values in all of our pledges and continue to instill them in the brothers throughout their college career, it is extremely beneficial to have an attractive lady come in and reaffirm everything we've been teaching them.

  44. Kudos to everything that was said, it would be nice if a lot more college women realized how they should act around such guys.

    Evgeniya Salenok
    University of Louisiana at Lafayette Greek community

  45. I truly think this is something that needed to be said. Women in the Greek community get lost in the "He's president of so and so" and "He asked me to Semi with 2300 candles and a cookie cake" and choose not to pay attention to the "I hold the record for the most 'just-for-the-story' lays" and "Let's make the pledges do [some act no one else wants to do]." We forget the power we own over the opposite sex and choose to accept some things we normally wouldn't.
    As collegiate women, we have the tough job to mold those collegiate men into the men our "grown-up counterparts" will marry.

    Chelsea Eastin
    Member of the University of Louisiana at Lafayette Greek community

  46. Your true character is who you are when no one is watching. This only helps if men are willing to not haze/be degrading even when they aren't going to get laid for their good behavior. However, I do think that putting anyone in their place when they behave badly is good advice for the most part. Still though, what is most important isn't that women are rejecting invitations to degrading parties but that the men ingrain it in their brains that they never should send those in the first place.