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[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (42 children)

It's not good because he can't prove anything. Do you really think several fortune 500 companies would be using react if it really was such a terrible clause?

And come on, of course he's going to pick his own fucking framework as the winner. Why would you listen to such a biased source?

You why I won't use Aurelia? Because it has literally only one major contributor, Rob.

If it's such a great framework, why the fuck does no one else work on it? I've never seen any other good piece of software written and maintained by a single person.

[–]howareroark 11 points12 points  (2 children)

I felt he was pretty clear about the bias though.

The language of that patent grant basically says that if you use react for anything, then you can't do anything else that may compete with facebook. Given how often these big companies acquire companies... That could sneak up on you.

[–]mucsun 1 point2 points  (1 child)

I wonder what happens if facebook suddenly starts getting into a new market for which a build an app using react. Does the close still apply and I would need to rewrite the app, or am I safe because of reasons?

[–]howareroark 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm wondering the same thing. Companies like facebook have big legal departments who are always out there trying to validate their existence I'm sure.

[–]phpdevsterfull-stack 14 points15 points  (0 children)

It's not good because he can't prove anything

Lol... not hard chief.


[–]GreekHubris 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Why would you listen to such a biased source?

Could you recommend a different presentation of those frameworks?
Honest question. I started watching it thinking "Awesome, I always wanted to get an in depth comparison of modern JS frameworks"(coming from Backbone myself)

[–]brianvaughn 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Lodash comes to mind as a quality JavaScript lib that's essentially maintained by one person. A little apples to oranges but... :)

[–]ackerlight 5 points6 points  (1 child)

Relax men, Aurelia is a new framework and it needs to get traction before people start picking up and contribute. If you go to the repo, you will see 16 core members, more than Angular. Instead of feeling insulted by the presentation, maybe you should try it and decide if is trash or not for you.

[–]Nephelophyte 0 points1 point  (0 children)

For me, unobtrusiveness was a huge selling point. Huge bias aside that model class looked pretty fucking sexy in Aurelia.

[–]joel-uix-engineer 2 points3 points  (0 children)

FYI I am on the Aurelia Team. It is definitely not one Major contributor. We have many engineers, and that is not including the 1000+ contributors who are not considered core engineers.

[–]trout_fucker🐟 3 points4 points  (8 children)

After he mentioned that, I realized I don't know of any Fortune 500 companies, besides FB and it's subsidiaries, using React. (edit: well, not many)


Yahoo finance uses react. Download the wappanalyzer extension for chrome and you'll notice a ton of companies use react and angular (more use react in my experience). Backbone is the most prevalent though.

[–]doMinationp 3 points4 points  (0 children)

PayPal and Netflix come to mind

[–]dabuttmonkee 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Walmart is using react as well.

[–]trout_fucker🐟 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I didn't know that. That's interesting.


[–]mattaugamerexpert 5 points6 points  (3 children)

Honestly, though, do you care? I mean, the Fortune 500 is mostly companies like Exxon, General Motors, and Walmart. Do you really use them as a guide for technical decisions? I would have thought better guides were effective startups and tech companies. Netflix is a React app, btw.

Companies like Uber, Airbnb, etc, are better guides for technology platform choices, imo, than Fortune 500s.

[–]trout_fucker🐟 5 points6 points  (1 child)

I don't care who uses what. I work for one of them, though. Yes, I do care what my legal team may approve and deny. I have not brought up React yet, but it's about be submitted for approval.


Walmart has Walmart Labs, which is one of the leaders in tech and one of the first vocal proponents of using Node.js at scale.

[–]plebbington 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Walmart has Walmart Labs

I think I'm the only person still developing with thorax.js... walmart are alright by my book.

[–]hes_dead_tired 2 points3 points  (11 children)

There many more contributors than just Eisenberg. They have a core team of several people. A lot of individual committers and one of the most active gitter channels.

[–]gdev87 4 points5 points  (10 children)

So that's what Rob says... and while I will be using his framework, I still admit that it is bullshit. Go on the Aurelia Github and take a look at all the modules and the contributors. Rob is by far the person with the most contributions and most everyone else has less than 10 commits.

[–]hes_dead_tired 1 point2 points  (9 children)

It's all stuff that can be looked at. Not denying he has the most. Look beyond aurelia-framework. Because of its modularization, the other parts are all relevant have more people with sizeable commits. Also, commit count isn't everything either.

Regardless, it's a pretty neat framework. Yes, it's more opinionated something like React but that's not disputed. That's intended.

[–]gdev87 5 points6 points  (8 children)

I agree. I'll be using it instead of Angular 2. What made me choose Aurelia is something that happened to me last week. I have a side project in Angular 1 that I've been working on for the last year or so in my free time, and last Tuesday I ran into an issue with ng-repeat.

I created an unordered list and used ng-repeat on its list elements. Then I applied JQuery UI Sortable to the list. Everything was working fine. Then I created a JQuery UI Droppable that you can drag the elements in the list to, drop them, and then they will be removed from the list.

At first I thought this worked fine. Then I tried deleting two elements in a row. The <li> at index 0 and then the <li> at index 1.... and all of the items in the list disappeared. At this point I'm thinking wtf.

So I check my MySql database and see if the items actually were deleted. Nope they are still there. So I know it didn't call my delete function on the rest of the items. Then I start debugging into Angular. There is something going on in the digest loop that is causing all my items to be deleted. Again I think wtf.

So I try using track by, order by, and whatever other trickery I can think of. Nothing works. At this point I'm getting pretty pissed. I realize I can't use ng-repeat for this because the hash keys of the elements in the list are constantly changing because of the array thats backing them. And this is what is causing ng-repeat to fuck up. Because of how I'm manipulating the array that is backing the list. I may never get this ng-repeat to work.

So now, after fucking with ng-repeat for a day or 2, instead I've created a directive that handles everything, so I don't use ng-repeat anymore for that list. It took a lot more work but finally the problem is solved.

If I had been using Angular 2, I may not have been able to fix this. And the reason is because they have abstracted away from the DOM. They use their own HTML parser. If I had tried to do this in Angular 2 it may never have worked. I am literally at their mercy, and hoping to god that the framework will work in every case I have.

With a framework that is based more on the standards of the web, like Aurelia, I can fix it easily (well not easily, but at least I can fix it). Anyway, that's why I've chosen Aurelia for my next project.

[–]Nephelophyte 0 points1 point  (2 children)

RemindMe! 3 months "How was using Aurelia?"

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[–]gdev87 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Should probably make this for more like 6-8 months. I'll be using Aurelia Interface to build a mobile app that goes along with my web app in Angular 1 that I described above. I still have a lot of features to add to my Angular 1 webapp and Aurelia Interface is probably 6 months from being released. So I'll be waiting on that.

[–]Nephelophyte 0 points1 point  (4 children)

Hey. Did you end up using Aurelia? You should make a post about it.

[–]gdev87 0 points1 point  (2 children)

No, there's been some weird stuff going on around Aurelia lately. Rob Eisenberg claimed he was building a consulting company around Aurelia. And that they were going to have their own set of cross platform UI components like Ionic. But he just took a job at microsoft, so I'm not sure what the future of the framework is going to be.

[–]Nephelophyte 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Meanwhile ember is still a good choice, right?

[–]gdev87 0 points1 point  (0 children)


[–]atsu85 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Based on this comment, I could argue, that Aurelia has at least 400 contributors: https://github.com/aurelia/framework/pull/448#issuecomment-228234243 , but this might include about 100 contributors, that didn't contribute to the js framework core and related modules, but sample apps, documentation etc. So probably the number 301 contributors ( https://www.danyow.net/aurelia-contributors/ ) for Aurelia framework and its modules is more accurate.

[–]o-o- -4 points-3 points  (4 children)

Fortune 500 companies evaluate community contributors before technology, and if those contributors are tech leaders such as Facebook, Google or Twitter. If they were competing in golf, they would buy the same brand of clubs as Tiger Woods (although an unfair comparison as Mr. Woods probably has the best gear money can buy).

That's why React > vue.js, Angular > Ember, or Bootstrap > Foundation

[–]one800higgins 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Having worked for a Fortune 500 company, I can say with certainty that that's not true across the board. Our company had 4,000+ software engineers and we adopted Angular because someone close to the CTO got a presentation together about why moving away from Winforms to HTML5 would be a good thing. Yes, Angular and HTML5 were used interchangeably... And this change was rolled out universally, with no regard to developer competencies. It was a shit show.

What I'm getting at is companies in the Fortune 500 list are usually large companies with financial stability and seek technology stability that matches. Our company still had plenty of FORTRAN in the wild. These are companies that mostly existed before the massive burst of technology in the last decade. These are not early adopters. I would expect companies like that to start considering React a year from now, but even then the version numbering alone would likely scare them off.

[–]_drif 2 points3 points  (2 children)

Community adoption is extremely important in modern software development. I'm not saying that fortune 500 companies are necessarily make the right choice by making choices this way (I work for capital one and it's very frustrating to advocate for different technologies) but the the more people who work with a technology means the more support that comes along with it. Aurelia might be really solid but frankly right now it just doesn't have the potential to grow the way React or Angular2 do.

I also can't help but see Rob as kind of a butthole. He broke off from Angular 2 to start Aurelia right? the way he talks about things makes him kind of sound like the one guy who wasn't able to compromise on certain details to the point where he flat out thought he was better and "smarter" about things. This is purely bias though.

[–]o-o- 3 points4 points  (1 child)

Valid thoughts.

As for me, since finding vue.js I've never looked back.

[–]radarthreat 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Vue is awesome

[–]scootstah -5 points-4 points  (4 children)


Yes, because the guys in suits are like "well Facebook is using it, why shouldn't we use it?"

[–]_drif 1 point2 points  (3 children)

Not really a bad choice considering Facebook is one of the most complex web applications around.

[–]scootstah 0 points1 point  (0 children)

So? That doesn't mean that Facebook's problems are your problems. And it doesn't mean that Facebook's solutions should be your solutions.

[–]mattaugamerexpert -2 points-1 points  (1 child)

You mean not a bad choice if you have facebook's budget, or their scale? Which of those do you have?

[–]_drif 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Just saying that React works well enough to architect something of that size and complexity as do many other libraries/frameworks. I'm not saying React is THE choice but it clearly can get the job done. No one has a clear advantage of the others because they all have just as many pitfalls. I also highly doubt any "guy in a suit" is the one making these kinds of choices. Any fortune 500 company most likely has a large team of engineers making these decisions and they're making them after testing and research (at least thats been my experience).