24 | Cindy Krum: Fraggles, SERP’s, and Mobile Marketing Domination

Today we talk with Cindy Krum based to talk about fraggles which Kevin Indig mentioned in Episode 22. Cindy is a mobile marketing innovator and CEO/Founder at MobileMoxie.

About Cindy Krum

Company: https://mobilemoxie.com/
Follow Cindy on Twitter: @Suzzicks
Try MobileMoxie for 30 days free – Promo Code: DIGITALRAGE
Article: https://moz.com/blog/the-importance-of-fraggles

Show Links

Ted Talk: https://www.ted.com/talks/shawn_achor_the_happy_secret_to_better_work?language=en

Transcript (sort of)

Speaker 1: [inaudible]

Jeff Byer: Welcome to Digital Rage, the podcast about all things Internet and the people that make it great. My name is Jeff Byer and today we talk with Cindy Krum, she’s a mobile marketing evangelist and CEO and founder of Mobile Moxie. Our topic today is Fraggles, a new Google search feature that will grab content from your website, bring it into the search engine result page with a deep link directly to the mention of that content on your page. This is

Jeff Byer: very important and today we had a discussion about it on Twitter. Glenn Gabe posted that Google is starting to index these deep links and starting to pay attention to them. And this is exactly what Cindy and I talk about in our conversation is that they are generating these deep links on the mobile result pages going directly to the content that they pulled out of your page. So really interesting topic and it was fun that a, this topic came up right after we interviewed Cindy. So more on that in a bit. But for now, uh, we’ll talk about, one thing that came up from our conversation is that Marie Haines tweeted that it was the one year anniversary of the medic update. And for those of you in SEO, you remember the medic update. If you’re dealing with your money, your life issues for your customers, these are issues dealing with health and finances mostly.

Jeff Byer: Um, they expand to other, other genres. In my specific case, it extended to a manufacturer of products that are used in, uh, in medical scenarios. And, uh, this was, this update hit my client pretty hard and it took almost six months to fully recover and some of our main keywords didn’t recover at all. But, uh, it was a major shift in the Google algorithm and how Google treats experience authority at trust. So the good news is we got Marie Haynes on the books. She’ll be here, um, interviewing next week to talk specifically about, uh, experience, authority, trust, the quality rate of guidelines and how all of this is basically going to be the new way that Google judges the quality of your content. So, uh, beyond that, nothing new to report. Just, you know, busy keeping everything alive and, and keeping the digital rage train rollin’.

Jeff Byer: With that we will get into the interview with Cindy Krum. All right, today we are speaking to Cindy Krum. She is a mobile marketing evangelists and CEO and founder of Mobilemoxy. How are you?

Cindy Krum: I’m good. How are you?

Jeff Byer: Doing well, thank you. So we’d like to, to start with the really hard hitting questions right off the bat. So first question is what does your screen name mean?

Cindy Krum: It’s a good question. I um, I’ve had that screen name since I was a kid since the AOL disc came in the mail.

Jeff Byer: Oh Wow. Very nice. So is that a nickname?

Cindy Krum: Yeah, it was a nickname. So I liked, this is way going back, but when I was very little I loved Dr Seuss and they would call me Seuss and it just kind of evolved into Seussicks. And so that’s what my family called me when I was a kid.

Jeff Byer: Ah, very nice.

Cindy Krum: Seussicks not Sussicks. I just was bad speller as a kid and I decided how it would be spelled.

Jeff Byer: Okay. Well now it’s yours. You own Suzzicks with Z’s. So, I saw you retweeted a post for Marie Haynes. Uh, this marks the, yesterday technically marks the one year anniversary of the medic update, which was a nightmare for me as well. One of my clients, a B2B manufacturing role for oxygen analyzers. And most of them are used in, the medical space. So she posted, you know, her nightmare last year. How did that affect you?

Cindy Krum: Uh, well, so it, most of our clients weren’t particularly affected. We have one, you know, company that comes and goes as a client and in the medical space, but, but most of our clients are outside of, uh, any of the industries that were really hit hard.

Jeff Byer: Okay. So out of the YMYL categorization. Right. Okay. All right. So what, what I really wanted to talk about is what a Concept brought up last week, which was Fraggles. So, in your words, what are Fraggles?

Cindy Krum: So at Fraggle is a fragment plus a handle. So what we found is that Google seems to be indexing a smaller than page level units. Now, um, they’re indexing not just the page but pieces of the page and linking to it. And they’ve done this for awhile with jump links. Um, but, but the important thing here is that they seem to be able to do it. Even if the jump link isn’t there, they super impose a locator onto content to surface it sometimes. And so that seems like a big, big deal.

Jeff Byer: And is it links or are they just scraping the content and putting it in the syrup?

Cindy Krum: So they’re lifting the content. That’s the fragment, the fragment of content, and then, uh, linking to it. So when you click on it, it’s not just that you get to the page that it’s from, instead of scrolls you to that piece of content on the page.

Jeff Byer: Okay. And this is without any, any direction control from the website itself,

Cindy Krum: right. Direction and control helps. So, for instance, using, um, jump links and h two tags that seems to help get you frag goals. Uh, but we’ve seen it where it, it seems like Google is just putting them there and you can especially see this too with amp featured snippets. Um, if you have an amp page that gets a featured snippet, what happens when a user clicks through on the featured snippet is Google scrolls directly to where it’s from and even highlights the featured snippet so you could read it in context.

Jeff Byer: Okay. Okay. So, uh, the, you know, they’ve been, they’ve been scraping content on the knowledge graph for, for a while now. Uh, but it’s the links that are, that are really the, the more unique part.

Cindy Krum: It’s the scrolling behavior. Yeah. Because if you think about a page like indexing pages isn’t a good way to surface answers. And really what Google is trying to do more than surface pages now is respond with answers and there might be many answers on a page.

Jeff Byer: Correct. Yeah. Though I was talking to Kevin and deg about was a, the concept of microsites that within a site you go a in depth into multiple pages of a big topic and serve a bunch of different answers and in the context of that one big category.

Cindy Krum: Yeah, absolutely. Well and [inaudible] as well with my theory that I’ve been kind of, um, talking about with what does mobile first indexing really need and loosely I think mobile first indexing really means Google switching from being a website or a search engine that surfaces websites to a search engine that surfaces answers. And more specifically that means index the information around the knowledge graph to understand how this topic is related to that topic and how we can answer questions within those topics.

Jeff Byer: Yeah, I lifted from your, your uh, Mazda article that I, that I was reading that just got posted, um, that you, uh, you basically redefined mobile first indexing as portable, preferred an organization of information.

Cindy Krum: Exactly. But actually that is from, so the art, it’s in the article from this year, but I first talked about that I think it was two years ago at, at Moz con. Yeah. Cause I think people are really wrapped up in this um, switch of the user agents. But honestly like Google used to switch user agents that it crawled with like casually on a Saturday without two years of preparation and notice, uh, I think the, the mobile part is tripping people up. Uh, and they’re, they’re really hung up on the user agent when I think the indexing is the most important part of the, the name mobile first indexing.

Jeff Byer: Yeah. And so what, when it first came out, when mobile first indexing was first brought out, everybody thought it was device specific. So they were all testing their sites on, on the devices and you know, thinking that the device, if it wasn’t a hit, if it was hidden on a mobile device, that it wasn’t going to get indexed. But that was proven not to be the case.

Cindy Krum: Right. Well with the front javascript indexing, Google is good at like doing the expanders and stuff like that. The Java script might trip up a, I do think that there is some validity to saying if it doesn’t show up on a mobile phone, then it’s going to struggle the index. But Google has also said that they’re still indexing desktop content. Uh, and that, you know, they’ve, they’ve been a bit hazy there. Uh, so I do think that that showing up on a mobile rendering is still important, but I think that we have to think like Google and Google has always like two or three years ahead of us. They know what’s happening before we do. And for them what they’ve been doubling down and investing in and building tech for is um, connected speakers, connected home hubs, these dummy screens and connected TVs where it’s just a poor dulling and windowing content from all over the web. And for that to happen, they can’t just window a webpage. They want to window the most relevant content. And, and in some cases they want to like strip it out or lift it and show it in a context where it’s relevant and useful, but not messing up the design and UX of whatever else is going on.

Jeff Byer: Yeah, and I think I’ve read an article about it and though the title of the article is called the, uh, the invisible syrup, which is that f with voice search and smart devices and not necessarily needing a screen, they need to provide search results. So whatever format possible that they’re going to do it that way. So, um, is uh, is uh, the fraggle based indexing is optimizing for fractals or uh, uh, something that you would suggest for your clients?

Cindy Krum: Yeah, absolutely. So, so what we’re doing to help get frog when we can is, um, number one using the speakable Schema. And within that it’s how to Q and a and FAQ and, and then adding back in, uh, the jump links and h two tags like I talked about, that seems to help. Okay. So it’s not fully like, it’s not fully a fraggle that Google just made up. We’re saying like, here is the section of the content where that answer is to kind of help it along because I don’t know if you’ve heard, um, but uh, search console is starting to index Hashtag URL separately from the main URL. Again, like this is like 1995 when they stopped indexing jump links as a separate URL. But now in search console you’ll get the main URL and then you’ll get the jump link URL with their own traffic data.

Jeff Byer: Oh Wow.

Cindy Krum: Okay. So that’s, that’s fun to see and a point I think. Yeah. Yeah. So it makes sense that they’re gonna start using that as a, as a a serve option as well, especially in mobile for the jump links and, and things like that. So the more that you can describe those jump leaks and provide Schema for them, the better. Uh, I did have a technical question though on the FAQ. Um, when I was reading the Schema, uh, instructions from Google and from schema.org for Q and. A, they expect Q and a Schema to be on a dedicated Q and a page. And most of what we’re seeing now is Q and A’s being included on the content page. Is it, is it that you can optimize for, for question to answer fractals within a larger piece of content. So they distinguished between Q and a, an FAQ, uh, by saying that FAQ, you write the questions in the answers in Q and a, uh, they have to be submitted questions. And my guess is that, um, you know, with the GMB staff, they’re just starting to make the reviews and Q and a searchable, my guess is with a separate page, it’s just easier for them to lift an aggregate. Right. Okay. Um, but

Speaker 5: ah, okay.

Cindy Krum: I think that that’s, they’re putting that in their requirements, but it’s probably more of a preference or in the long term it’ll probably be more of a preference. Right?

Jeff Byer: Yeah. And I’ve got, I’ve got an experiment running right now. I just published it yesterday with, uh, with long form content landing page for a specific, uh, uh, keyword, a high value keyword with a Q and a section, which is within the content, but it’s using the, the, the, uh, the FAQ markup so that it’s for question, it’s subtitle with the question paragraph with an answer and then a square photo to go with it with all the, the Schema markup to see if those questions actually get pulled.

Cindy Krum: But remember FAQ and Q and a are different and you are asking a question about Q and a and the Schema that you said is on the pages FAQ.

Jeff Byer: FAQ. Yes. I didn’t mean QA. I didn’t even use their submitted. Yeah. Okay. Sorry about that. Confuses it.

Cindy Krum: But it sounds like a good test.

Jeff Byer: Yeah. Yeah. So, uh, we’ll see what happens. And um, cause I, from the way that I read it, it was supposed to be a whole page just for questions. And so I’m just sectioning off a section of the page just for questions. So we’ll see if that works. So, um, what are, uh, what are you seeing as the, the latest trends in, in mobile marketing?

Cindy Krum: No, mobile marketing as a whole or mobile SEO?

Jeff Byer: Uh, both. Yeah.

Cindy Krum: Okay. Mobile

Jeff Byer: marketing as a whole. And I just think that the, the word mobile is losing its fidelity to the device and that mobile means anything that’s not, um, a laptop or a desktop. Uh, so mobile includes like TVs and includes connected speakers and home hubs and uh, stuff like that. Mobile is like a catchall for anything that’s not a more traditional computer. Uh, and so that makes it kind of easier and harder. It means that it’s easier to find data that says that mobile is whatever you want, uh, growing, shrinking, flat, you know, whatever, because you can include all these things or not include all the things or, or what have you. But the main thing I think that that’s really fundamental from an SEO perspective is that, um, Google is taking more and more in the, of the top of the Cert, uh, and websites are getting less and less click through.

Jeff Byer: That’s a big deal. The other thing in mobile that’s related to that is that the mobile device is becoming the hub for everyone’s life even more than it was before. Um, and the, the special growth is in media and entertainment, like movies, TV, stuff like that. And I think, um, because there are so many cable cutters, uh, Google sees that as a huge opportunity to monetize, um, because like lots of money used to be made on network and cable TV commercials, selling them, barring them, having them, whatever. Um, and without as many people watching TV and that like that, um, there’s a vacuum like power vacuum or opportunity vacuum, uh, that Google wants to fill with TV ads, subscription rental, buy all of your media from Google and youtube or from Google play and depending on your device. But it’s like most people don’t realize, cause most people don’t work on both android and Ios. But basically everything that’s in Google play is now in youtube as well. But it might be subscription model for TV or rental or whatever, rent this movie by this movie, whatever. But it’s the same inventory has surprise Google on some boasts. Yeah, yeah. And so are you seeing that, uh, you’re trying to translate the, the traditional offline models into a mobile experience? Or is it that we’re carving new directions with the proliferation of entertainment being mobile, being shifted to, uh, phones and, and tablets.

Cindy Krum: It’s, it’s new directions and it’s not just the mobile aspect of it, but it’s all the on demand consumption. So Netflix now has its own series and movies and Hulu has it’s own series and movies and so there are new competitors in the market as well as new formats and new ways to monetize.

Jeff Byer: Okay. And new ways to target

Cindy Krum: any ways to target. Right.

Jeff Byer: Yeah. Okay. So it’s, so in, in the SEO specific side of, of mobile marketing, how, how would you, uh, how do you go about what more, what am I trying to say? Uh, probably more what the strategy is when you’re thinking about SEO, uh, compared to, you know, a desktop based SEO to a mobile based SEO.

Cindy Krum: Sure. So I encourage people to think outside of the blue links, uh, because really on, on a lot of the big, heavy hitting terms, the top of the page is Google, Google and Google, just different variations of Google content.

Jeff Byer: Hmm.

Cindy Krum: Um, and you know, from a traditional SEO perspective, the best thing you can do really is get one of the featured snippets. But if you’re thinking outside of the SEO box, you can think like, what else could I do to be up here in the top? And like SEOs who don’t have a local background, don’t think about what could I do in Google my business to be here if there’s a map pack or a, what could I do in, uh, other outlets? Uh, for instance, like in Google play or, um, youtube to be here, right. Is there a video ranking? Why is it not my video? Oh, cause I don’t have videos, you know, so stuff like that where it’s not necessarily going for a blue link to your site. Um, but just content that’s yours

Jeff Byer: being visible on the, on the top of the result page in any way possible. Right. Okay. Right.

Cindy Krum: And some of the PPC stuff is getting much more engaging and um, competitive. Uh, so for instance, I’ve seen them testing something that looks like an Instagram slideshow where it has a, uh, a huge image. Um, that’s like a square that takes up most of the space above the fold after you’ve got your navigation and Google stuff at the top and it’s mostly, and then it’s got dots so you can swipe, swipe, swipe, swipe and see like a beautiful slideshow of Adidas shoes or whatever. And it’s not just the, the product photography with white backgrounds, it’s more like instagrammy

Jeff Byer: [inaudible]

Cindy Krum: uh, with models and settings and stuff.

Jeff Byer: And, and they’re showing user generated content as well. Right.

Cindy Krum: Some user generated content. I haven’t seen as much of that, but, but there’s also the, the pls and then the shopping stuff where you search for, I have an example in one of my most recent talks where it’s buy guitar near me and Google divides the, the sponsored product stuff, the sponsored pla stuff with buy online, buy in store and either one, either tab that you click, it’s got a carousel of actual guitars that you can buy right then like pictures of the guitars. So why would you want to hunt in someone else’s website when Google is giving you a feed with filters and you can, you know, sort by brand, sort by color, whatever. I mean it’s really engaging where you, you get pulled in by the picture of the product that you want or the question do you want to buy online or do you want to buy in a store? Um, and before you know, you’ve clicked on a pla or a paid ad because it’s a better experience than wrestling with someone’s website or landing on a bad landing page that doesn’t actually show you what you want or it’s out of stock.

Jeff Byer: Yeah. Yeah. True. So they’re, they’re trying to control the experience and make it best for the, for the searcher and, uh, and also, uh, trying to predict their search intent. So, so searching for a guitar, uh, usually means purchase intent. That doesn’t mean you, you know, just kinda looking around or getting information. So yeah. Uh, and Barry Schwartz has been doing a good job of, of posting a lot of these new cert features and seeing experiments. So I, I follow him for that specific reason. It’s just what is going on and, and, you know, it’s nothing we can modify for because they’re just doing experiments. But, uh, it’s good to know that these things exist so we can, so we can build media towards it.

Cindy Krum: Yeah, exactly. But also from an, from a mobile perspective, if you’re doing mobile SEO, I encourage people to think really hard about what is part of the knowledge graph because, for instance, um, the Google my business, that’s part of the business aspect of the knowledge graph. Uh, the pls, uh, the stuff that they’re getting in merchant center, I don’t know if you’ve seen this, but they’re now creating product knowledge graph pages. So for this specific guitar, it’s within the knowledge graph and knowledge graph knows that this guitar comes in White, red, black and green.

Jeff Byer: Oh yes, yes. I have seen, I’ve in some searches I have seen that and I’ve, I always wonder where they get the data. Is it Wiki Pedia or

Cindy Krum: merchant center? Merchant Center. Yeah. That’s historically PPC, but it’s coming up. We see merchant center carousels now in the organic.

Jeff Byer: Okay. And so brands or re re retailers can gain access to, to to that information.

Cindy Krum: Yup. Or get inventory shown in those carousels.

Jeff Byer: Okay. And is that based on the uh, the submission of product lists to Google shopping?

Cindy Krum: Yes, but you can submit them without running the paid ads. Okay. That’s what I’ve been told. I’m not a PBC expert. Okay. But you can send them all of your product specifications and data and then not run the ads. That was my understanding.

Jeff Byer: Okay. So what is, what is something that the audience can take away as far as a typical, a digital marketer that is wanting to, to modify their content, not only for Mobile, but, uh, I’ll try and get Frankel’s as well. What’s, what’s the philosophy

Cindy Krum: I think in terms of chunks of questions and answers and liftable content, cause B, Google’s going to be lifting and representing more and more content and SEO is, they’re getting mad about it now, but I think it’s gonna Continue. They can, they can get mad all they want. I can’t stop the Google train. Right. So you have to kind of let Google lift your content if you want to be there at all. That seems like the new play and you know, being upset about it as fine. I agree with like some of the stuff that ran his talking about with, uh, the, the anti competitive nature of what Google’s done to change the syrup. Right. Where everything, all roads lead to Google. Yeah. Um, I agree that that’s a problem, but also Google’s a business and we rank, uh, in their search engine at their discretion. Yeah. It’s their game. They don’t have to rank any of us.

Jeff Byer: Yeah. And so that brings up another question is, are you, uh, expanding into other distribution channels so that you’re, you know, if for some reason Google’s yeah. Gone off the deep end and nobody uses it anymore, what is, where, where is your content also living?

Cindy Krum: So I think that, um, I’m, I’m doing everything I can to make sure me and my clients are putting their content in all of the Google channels available. So for instance, um, putting videos in youtube, putting podcasts in Google podcasts and Google play, um, putting stuff in Google my business, including doing Google posts and products and stuff like that. And it’s, it’s, uh, loosening your stranglehold on needing to do SEO on the website and doing SEO in a more holistic way. Um, just thinking about not just driving clicks and rankings, but driving visibility in the syrup,

Jeff Byer: visibility and engagement

Cindy Krum: and engagement. Yeah. Yeah. But it’s also about, we have to, we’re not, we have to be real marketers and market good products and not just tricksters who, no loopholes in Google.

Jeff Byer: Right. And that’s, that’s

Cindy Krum: kind of been, you know, Google’s philosophy and trying to do everything they can to, to keep fake engagement and, and ranking signals from being, from being manipulated. So, so yeah, that’s something that there’s evidence that sometimes it works, but for the most part it’s not something to rely on. Right. Yeah. So I also saw a post, um, is Barkley there with you? He is. He’s being so quiet. He’s asleep.

Jeff Byer: Nice. So you’re a dog lover.

Cindy Krum: I’m a dog. Larmer I also have a cat.

Jeff Byer: Oh, you do? Okay. So you list dog lover on your, on your Twitter profile. All right, so, uh, living in Denver. Um, so what outside of SEO and marketing do you like to do?

Cindy Krum: I mostly do a lot of SEO and marketing occasionally. Uh, I love, I love, uh, audio books. It’s kind of something I, I’m always reading something and I’m always happy to talk about what I’m reading. Um, so anyone will listen. So what are you ready? The happiness advantage right now? It’s, uh, about, it’s kind of neuro psychology or neuro pop psychology depending on who you ask about or how your brain performs better, when you’re happier so you can be more efficient versus unhappy brains struggle.

Jeff Byer: Yeah. And if I’ve, yeah, there’s a bunch of, uh, books that, that touch on that, but a, this sounds like a great, a great deep dive into the psychology of it.

Cindy Krum: Absolutely. I think I did a really great ted talk that I call Amy the Unicorn Ted talk because that’s the most memorable part is he tells a story about his sister Amy, the Unicorn.

Jeff Byer: Oh, very nice. I will look that up and link to it in the show notes. Okay. Uh, and so one question that I ask, uh, all of everybody that I have on the show is who do you follow and, uh, look to for information.

Cindy Krum: I follow everybody. The people who I get the most out of, uh, recently, uh, always rand is good. I don’t always agree with everything he says, but it’s always well thought out and very smart. Um, uh, Jonno Alderson is super smart. Again, I don’t always agree. These, these are people that have strong opinions and I also have strong opinions, so I don’t always agree, but I totally, uh, I often agree with Jonno and uh, respect the thought process and stuff like that. Uh, let’s see. Marcus Tandler MCASS Tobler the two Marcus’s. Um, that’s the top of

Jeff Byer: my list right now. Who’s the top of your list? Oh boy. I have, I’ve, I’ve been, you know, ever since boss Con, uh, just a whole rash of people who were, who are, uh, providing a ton of information from Moscow. So that brought you into the fold. Uh, Lily Ray, uh, Marie Marie Haynes, uh, and uh, of course rant, but rants, uh, like some of his is his frequency of posting on the, the Google serpent and decline of Click throughs. Um, it’s, it seems to be the majority of what’s taking up his time right now,

Cindy Krum: I think. Yeah, well it’s a big deal because you can be, if people are stuck in their analytics and they’re just looking at analytics or search console or something and they see they’ve maintained position one for years and years and years, but traffic’s down. Like that’s a hard conundrum to deal with. Like we’re doing everything we can and we’re, we’re still position one, but the traffic’s just not there anymore. So I get it. I’m, I’m, I’m there with him.

Jeff Byer: Yeah. And it’s something that, you know, businesses are just going to have to learn to adapt to and, and switch. So I’m dealing with this too. Two of my customers now, uh, both of them deep B2B, so, um, it doesn’t have quite the, you know, the impact as far as bottom line. They’re still doing traditional, uh, outreach sales. Uh, but I’m trying to get their online presence a little more omni-channel so that, uh, they’re bringing in because they have a very, uh, personal touch when, when customers engage, but getting them in front of their customers is the more difficult part. So, uh, that’s why instead of them just concentrating on telephone calls and emails, getting them to branch out, offer content, offer value, and invite people in to ask them questions and engage with them without any pressure of sales. Yeah, definitely. So, yeah, I follow Barry Schwartz and Dan Scher and um, uh, a bunch of, uh, other SEO experts that, uh, I like to follow that, uh, optimize the and rob woods, uh, and smarty.

Cindy Krum: Yeah. I follow all those people. They’re all astic there a lot of super smart people in this industry. It’s why I love it so much.

Jeff Byer: Yeah. Bill Slawsky he’s always fun.

Cindy Krum: Was Great.

Jeff Byer: So, uh, what tools do you use other than obviously mobile? Moxie?

Cindy Krum: I use the mobile maxi tool. What other tools do I use? Um, I was pretty old school. I use screaming frog a lot. I use SCM and Mas. Um, sometimes they use like the new crawlers, like a site bulb or a deep crawl. Those are great too. Um, and then search console and Google analytics, we’re getting into more data studio in tag manager. I’m excited about that. So that’s pretty much it.

Jeff Byer: That’s fantastic. Uh, yeah. So yeah, screaming frog, it’s amazing how long that tool has been, has been relevant. It’s been adapting and changing so well, I’m really, uh, yeah, it’s, it’s, you know, other than the, the Google supplied tools, it’s one of the oldest tools out on the market.

Cindy Krum: Yeah. So, you know, my concern with, with all the tools is that they’re still focusing so heavily on desktop and Google has said they’re mobile first. And so I’m doing everything I can because we have API APIs into tar. Um, emulators and simulators are what we’ve renamed to the page of scope and the circulator. Yeah. We have the ability to plug those into other tools so that they can at least like show a mobile version. Uh, because I feel like so many of these, when you dig into what is the mobile data, it’s either an approximation based on desktop or you know, there’s kind of shifting stuff in there. So, um, yeah, I, I’m ready for the rest of the industry to update to also be mobile first.

Jeff Byer: Yeah. Well, you’re, you’re at the forefront of it and you’re not, you’re a, you’re an innovator as far as mobile marketing and, and using traditional SEO tactic tactics specifically for mobile. So, uh, I appreciate what you’re doing and it’s, it’s helping all of us, which is great. Yeah. Thanks. Um, all right, so, uh, to finish off here, where can people find you? Follow you? Um, what do you want to promote?

Cindy Krum: Sure. Uh, so like you mentioned earlier on Twitter, I’m Susie x, s u, zed, zed, I c k. S. Uh, that’s the easiest place to get me. Um, but I’m all over the place traveling and speaking at conferences. So always come up and say hello to me if you know I’m going to be around, uh, or my email address is just Cindy at mobile maxi. Uh, and what am I trying to promote? Let’s see. I’m trying to promote, uh, my tools. We just did a redesign of the homepage, which I’m really proud of and everyone laughs, but our tabs are screaming fast, like loading situation. Beautiful. I’m really proud of my team for that. Um, so I don’t know, do you want a promo code? I’ll make a promo code so that all your listeners can get 30 days free and the tools has that. That would be fantastic. What do you want your Promo code to be?

Jeff Byer: A digital rage,

Cindy Krum: digital rage. All caps then. All right, perfect. Do it.

Jeff Byer: I’ll do it in the next five minutes. Thank you very much. Well, thank you for your time and again, a really, really fun conversation, loved having you on. And uh, I look forward to following you, seeing the updates and uh, hopefully we could do this again.

Jeff Byer: Yeah. Awesome. Anytime. Happy to do it. Thank you very much for show notes and information. Go to digital [inaudible] dot FM. Follow us on Twitter and Instagram at digital rage at them. And please give us a rating and review. We sincerely appreciate it.

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