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CSMX - Post #07

Mosaic has been a bumpy ride.

The ugliest thing was the reversion of the corporation role interface. It was an emergency reversion do to a defect. Take access was granting view access and view access take access. The news article outlines the fact that CCP will be reimbursing any corporation theft during that thirty hour window. There was an emergency CSM meeting to update the CSM on what was happening and resolution plans on Wednesday when it was discovered. I was at work so got to miss that one as well but we still discussed it in channels.

The other revision is the Title and Roles changes. The goal of theses is to have public titles and private roles. Right now there needs to be more work on the way these are viewed externally and internally. If you want everyone to know that Xerses is a POS Manager for instance that is fine but it should not be the default as it is now. Titles so that everyone knows Xerses 'loves cabbage' should not be created in the same function that Xerses is given his POS Manager powers. This is the thing being split. 'loves cabbage' should only be a role if the corporation wants it to be a role and likes obscure things. The two are intertwined right now and they don't need to be. It will allow for a neater internal structure, a purposeful created exterior view, and vanity titles for personalization.

The beta map was released as the default map. The old map is still available and the beta map can be turned off. The beta map is also still beta. The feedback from the first few days of the release alone as unearthed many usability, response, and interface problems with the map. This is a good thing and while frustrating this has to happen for us to get the map in the state that it can replace the old map. However, since they turned it on as the default there has been much confusion over the state of the map. CCP Rise posted about it. They are reading the forums and reddit but please, do bug reports as well. When you do leave feedback be detailed about it. "It is unusable," may be how you feel but the why is very important.

There are bugs in the SKIN system. People have figured them out to run around in whatever skin they want. This is being fixed. It has made people angry with CCP over the pricing and availability of the skins. In my mind, I figured pricing would be 5-10 dollars. People would be able to convince themselves to buy everything for every ship that they have. And then on their other characters too. What I do understand is why not all of the art assets are released. Some are just not done yet. The layers of graphics show incorrectly. Even if we stepped away from the topic of color choice, some of the patterns will not display properly on some hulls right now. They are still being worked on. For example, someone posted a bloodraider Nyx and it is missing the splatter pattern. Instead it was a dark grey and burgundy which was attractive but it was not the bloodraider splatter pattern.

Then there is the topic of personlization and choice. This is not a new discussion. It's been ongoing for the years that players begged for skins and access to textures that were not available. It resurged when color choice was removed from the UI. Now that Pandora's Box of Ship Skins has been opened, I don't think it will close. I think CCP will try to close it but the resentment born and desire created are not going to go away. Roleplay and lore have been cited as reasons for restrictions. I think that is one of the weaker arguments even if it is sensible in the structure of the game's world. Players have not been involved in the role play and lore of the game for years and the story sat stagnant. Many players know nothing of the fantasy world of Eve Online nor do they play for it. They play for the players and the interactions that come from playing inside of a MMO.

I'd like to see the SKIN programs pricing and choice reevaluated with the feedback and excitement that the bug has caused about colors and options. The CSM has been talking  about it to CCP. Your feedback and comments have been read. I don't yet know where this will end but I'd like it to be in a position where there are more choices.

Another ugly bug was spam clicking was causing weirdness and freezing. That is hopefully resolved but keep bug reporting if it is not.

For some long range discussion, CCP Affinity and CCP Falcon were on the Hydrostatic Podcast. They discuss lore but they also discuss the future changes to low sec and FW. Those are looking to come towards the end of the year instead of the hoped for summer.

And don't forget that CCP is running a PLEX for Good donation drive for the recent tragedy in Nepal.


  1. I was completely not surprised by major bumps and glitches in the Corp Interface patch roll out... CCP has long held that revamping that would be a huge fugly pissed off hungry bear, and so it turns out they were right, go figger... OK, so give em some slack people... they are working on it at last, give em a chance to iron out the bugs. It's not like they don't want it work...

    Sugar this, "Players have not been involved in the role play and lore of the game for years and the story sat stagnant." is not exactly true...
    "CCP has not been involved in the role play and lore of the game for years and the story sat stagnant." is.

    The players create emergent lore, CPC handles NPC and the overarching lore of the whole verse... this is the lore that defines many of the 'man made rules'... the Navies of the Empires, CONCORD and ship balancing for instance... and the 'natural laws' of the game mechanics such as wormhole mass and time limits and 'weather' that we abide by or simply live with in EVE.

    CCP dropped the ball there years ago and abandoned much that was actively going on in the lore... The Arek'jaalan Project being one of the most prestigious and well known of the CCP/Player Lore projects. This Arek'jaalan Project was the brain-child of Dr. Hilen Tukoss, a CCP driven NPC character. Dr. Tukoss was a Caldari scientist who, in the spring of 2011, defected to the Minmatar Republic to work under Eifyr & Co. Under Dr. Tukoss’s leadership, many capsuleers organized research projects seeking to explore the mysteries of the Eve Universe, specializing particularly in New Eden history and wormholes.

    That is... until he disappeared. What happened behind the scenes at CCP is still a mystery to us. What we do know is that Dr. Tukoss and his retinue of contacts stopped responding to us. It wasn't terribly noticeable at first, but as time went on, it became more and more clear that he wasn't coming back. Without a central figure to organize and motivate us, Arek’Jaalan slowly withered on the vine.

    Quoted from: Arek’Jaalan, by Mark726, 12/12/14 on Crossing Zebras.

    That CCP is back in the active lore business... IE Hilen Tukoss has returned, though the not quite the same driving force he was before... the Seekers, the Drifters, the hugely upgraded Scope Reports... all good stuff, but ALL CCP driven. As to "Many players know nothing of the fantasy world of Eve Online nor do they play for it." How could they know of it when CCP basically stopped working on it for years?? EVE is a SciFi shared MMO game universe... this is very attractive to a large segment of potential players... That CCP is back in to the 'active' lore business is just all for the good of the game IMHO.

    One place to keep an eye on the Lore is Lore Watch over on Crossing Zebras...

    For those of us into the Lore, whether we role play or not... which BTW is NOT a requirement of being really "into" the Lore of EVE... the Lore is VERY important. But we need CCP to keep up the pace and give us this... we cannot do it all ourselves as much as many seem to like to believe or dream.

    Other than that some of the chages are AMAZING and the Sleepers in Empire and such... all I can say is Kudos CCP!!! Have a cookie.

    1. To the lore sections of this reply, I can only give +1.

      The players didn't abandon CCP. CCP abandoned the players. Whether it was the gradual abandonment of Arek'Jalaan, or the quick execution of the Chronicles, It wasn't the players that left the Lore to die.

      CCP has come back to the graves, and is performing some necromantic magic to get the corpses moving, but most of the first group are dead and rotted, and only a few awaken from their slumber. We'll see if this new renaissance is going to be player driven. So far, we're watching the story, not writing it.

      Rob K.

      Apologies to any members of the A'J community that feel unfairly characterised. You're all brain-dead anyway :P

  2. The new ship skins are missing the mark for me. To start with I have had in my hangar a thukker cyclone which I loved very much. It comes out to fight once or twice a month but usually it just is not the right ship for wspace or roaming so there it sits. As you would expect based on this usage the lifetime is well beyond 30 days. So the change in effect took things I liked. The 30 days really needs to be changed to ship lifetine or something much longer.

    Secondly, I went to jita to look for new sk8ns and the prices on the isk market were rather insane. A sebeistor tribe talwar was listed at 700mil. 700mil for a destroyer, really. Thats some paint. Other ships which I would use were similarly out of reach.

    Finally, the implementation of running to kspace to puck up tokens was not very considerate of wspace life. Once more they left us feeling like second class citizens who get a different and worse deal than everyone else.

    1. SKINS... meh.

      But... "...running to kspace to pick up tokens was not very considerate of wspace life." sorry to disagree but I personally never EVER want to see stations and a market in W-space... that's what Empire is FOR IMHO.

      And... well, again, just my opinion but... "Once more they left us feeling like second class citizens who get a different and worse deal than everyone else." I don't know about you but we DO get a very different and therefor IMHO far better deal than anyone in Empire, Hi, lo or null... I don't want the same game as everyone in Empire... if I did, I'd live there.

      W-Space is the Wild West, the Outback, the Kalahari... it's the hidden and deadly Interior of Deepest Darkest Afrika... Plunk down a Station and a buncha Jita alts and freighters flowing back-n-forth and well hell man... why are you IN Anoikis and not in Jita in the first place??

      Or is it you want Wormhole Income and Secstat Risk Free PvP with a Hisec Lifestyle??? Gods above I hope that NEVER happens for ya man... it would screw EVE into the ground.

    2. I'm gonna step in here and point out this: " A sebeistor tribe talwar was listed at 700mil. 700mil for a destroyer, really. Thats some paint."

      You're not buying the ship, you're buying the skin. It is a vanity thing, not a required part of participating. The skins is there only to look nice, not to improve your skills or damage.

      I do, however, agree that the SKIN prices are somewhat bizarre. However, it is CCP's decision to make, and no amount of whining about how you 'can't skin your turd with a brown and lumpy texture' is gonna make CCP want to give it to you. (NOTE, you didn't say this, but other have, and I'm just frustrated.)

      There are numerous posts full of excuses for CCP to let every ship use every skin, because "we're immortal demigods, who can do whatever we want". The posts miss the point: The SKIN programme isn't for you to deck out your thorax with a veiny, fleshy texture. It's for CCP to raise money. How they do that, and what prices they choose to use are their choice.

      Yes, the prices are high, and yes, they're not accessible to everybody. That's the point. Skins are meant to be a status symbol, a flashy, meta e-peen, if you will. If they were 5 cents each, and all looked great, whoopee for you and all your mates. It'd be a waste though, because CCP would have to fire some amount of devs, because of all that wasted dev-time, which doesn't translate into more money coming in.

      Imo, most posts are from whiny cheap bastards, who will pay £200 a year for plexes, but not £20 for the skin they want to buy.

      Rob K.

      Apologies for picking on some of what you said, and not responding to all of it. What would you do in a Wormhole with a Talwar though? Also, the Sebestior Talwar is one of the limited edition skins, isn't it? Or are those just the Catalyst ones? Also also, fuck every skin on every ship, my Quafe Tristan and Vexor, and my Intaki Catalyst should be rare. They're status symbols, not for every pleb with a Quafe skin or Intaki skin to use.

    3. This comment has been removed by the author.

  3. Roaming mass/time limited connections and the pride of owning a system is what makes wspace for me. The lack of markets and pos issues detract rather than make it. It would still be the wild west even if outposts were added. As for isk my team mostly cant be troubled to farm.

    1. "Roaming mass/time limited connections and the pride of owning a system..." and along with that you get security status hit free PvP and some of the best if not THE best (both in difficulty and potential income) PvE in the game Sleepers and PI included...

      As far as an actual 'market' goes... please explain how this would work pray tell? "WallyWorld" corp in J123456 sets up a Freeport POS and what? You just pop over any ol time and buy what you will... as long as you have a connecting hole or pipe and have scanned it all down...

      or mebbe someone else might do all that scanning for you and post the sigs and systems like, oh I dunno... "EVE Scout" does in Thera? You know that WORMHOLE with several actual freeport Stations and actual stuff actually on the market for sale...

      Oh wait... been done, got the T-shirt... never shop there as it's far moar of a pain than just scanning a pipe to Hisec and shoppin at Jita or Amarr... better selection, better prices and somewhat less risky too.

      Seriously though, how in the verse do you see a 'market' working in W-space as it stands now?? And no cheating with wormhole generators or stabilizers or other such tomfoolery... Using the mechanics we have today, just how in the hell you gonna setup, stock, and manage a market in Anoikis??

      This I gotta hear...

      Oh and we have Wild West style outposts... they're called POSes.
      And "As for isk my team mostly cant be troubled to farm." It's this kinda gameplay that makes me actually wish CCP did not have PLEX.

      Then we'd see who 'cant be troubled'... cause if ya'll PLEX to play (game time and ISK in wallet), you are by definition, paying to win as compared to the rest of us poor sods who make ISK the old fashioned way...

      But whatever...

    2. No its not plex for isk, we mostly actually subscribe our accounts and we mostly fly cheap. Combine that with PI, an occasional sleeper or gas cloud and drops from other peoples wrecks and it is enough although definetlely not the "rich" that so many assume all wormhome corps are.

      As for market I am sure .that someone would try the freeportand that woild have been gar more interesting than having it gifted like thera but that is not that I was thinking about. Somply listing odd bits for internal use would be a nice quality of like improvement. It would not suddenly make the game but it is an example of why living in a pos is just missing many of the services which everyone else has.

      Finally no, I dont think I am entitled to a skin. The point is they wont raise any money from me at current pricing because 700 mil to make a ship which I rarely fly look nice just is not going to happen. This is signifiacant because I frequently bought skinned versions previously (cyclone, thrasher, probe, caracal, maelstrom.) The comment is the redesigned program is of less interest and use to me than the pilot program. Life of ship simply worked better for me as a customer than 30 day or permanent.

    3. I know many who fly like that... I too sub my account on CC, but I guess I am one of those who fulfill the Wormholers are Rich meme... though I know many who are far richer than I... But, aside from fattening my wallet. part of the fun I get from the game is running PvE with my bros... and in the doing, as we are in Anoikis, PvP is always a potential... usually from guys who "Roam mass/time limited connections..." looking for PvP... =]

      We have an industrialist in our corp who has sold us on the idea of setting up an Industry POS (done) in which he has started making ammo and various mods we have discussed and requested for internal sale to corp... so, in a small limited way, we do have a market in our C4... just not open to the public is all.

      I gotta admit as little as I care about SKINS... a variant like my Thukker Tribe Thrasher which is store bought and lasts for the life of that hull at a far moar reasonable price... that I have occasionally bought instead of a standard hull...

  4. Thanks for the update. This was why I voted for you.

  5. "I think that is one of the weaker arguments even if it is sensible in the structure of the game's world."

    In the case of the UI colors, an aspect which will only ever be viewed by the individual player on his/her own screen, this is worse than a "weaker argument;" it is a non-argument. It is an excuse, and a poor one at that. There is absolutely no reason to take away this level of choice from the players. Even if for some bizarre reason CCP thought that the ability to have a bright pink UI would somehow destroy the fabric of the game itself, they could still implement the old color sliders but with a more limited range to remove the offending "inappropriate for RP" colors.

    But of course, even that should be unnecessary. A company which runs a game giving opportunities for roleplay within that game is one thing; dictating how we roleplay is something else entirely, and really has no justification in this case.


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