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John Howard not sorry for refusal


AM Archive - Friday, 27 August , 1999  00:00:00

Reporter: Mat Peacock

PETER CAVE: The Prime Minister, John Howard, has acknowledged he's had a shift in attitude by formally recognising past injustices to Aborigines.

The former ATSIC chair, Lowitja O'Donoghue, told the Prime Minister he'd moved a long way after his motion of deep and sincere regret yesterday. But Mr Howard is standing by his refusal to use the word sorry, claiming he's made a genuine gesture that recognises the flaws of the past. The Prime Minister spoke to our chief political correspondent, Matt Peacock.

MATT PEACOCK: Mr Howard, you told the House yesterday that there was nothing wrong with changing your mind unless you were moving to a less worthwhile position. Lowitja O'Donoghue says you may have gone on a spiritual journey. I mean, have you moved and why?

JOHN HOWARD: Well I guess I have. I also guess people like Lois and Aden Ridgeway have also moved. The important thing is whether what was passed yesterday best gathers together the collective view of the nation on this subject. That's what matters. It's not a question of analysing how far Howard's moved or somebody else has moved. I mean the political analysts can do that. I'm not going to do that.

I think what was done yesterday was something that will make a huge contribution to the cause of reconciliation. It expresses the collective spirit of the community on this issue. It's not totally satisfactory to each one section but collectively it's much more satisfactory and acceptable than any other formulation.

MATT PEACOCK: Some of your friends have told me that you bitterly regretted that moment at the reconciliation conference and how it deteriorated after you'd given your own personal apology. Has that sort of simmered away inside you?

JOHN HOWARD: Well I don't know about simmering away but, if I'd have had my way over again, I probably would have reacted more calmly to what at the time was not criticism of my response on the so-called apology issue, but criticism, I was reacting to criticism about position on native title. But I had wanted to make a contribution towards reconciliation.

I committed the Government to pursuing reconciliation the night that the Government was re-elected in October of last year. I believe that this resolution will make a huge contribution towards the cause of reconciliation. It does not, as a resolution, impose a blame or a guilt on present generations for past misdeeds. But it does recognise the truth about Australia's history.

MATT PEACOCK: It doesn't say sorry.

JOHN HOWARD: No, well...

MATT PEACOCK: Is that important?

JOHN HOWARD: Well, no, what is important, Matt, is what is positive out of what was passed yesterday. I am not, like Aden Ridgeway, I am not going to get hung out about, hung up about this or that word or this or that expression.

MATT PEACOCK: But I mean there are others that say that that's exactly why we've had this controversy about sorry because...

JOHN HOWARD: Well they may go on saying...

MATT PEACOCK: ...you were insisting on deep and sincere regret.

JOHN HOWARD: I have got and the Government has produced and the Parliament endorsed a motion, and I don't think there'll be much sort of support in the Australian community for a continued debate about words and about what ought to have been or might not have been or should have been or could have been. You've got something that is a collective expression of regret and acknowledgement of historical truth and reality.

MATT PEACOCK: Do you think most Australians, non-Aboriginal Australians would accept the proposition that, to quote your motion, 'the mistreatment of many indigenous Australians over a significant period represents the most blemished chapter of our national history'?

JOHN HOWARD: I think most Australians probably would, yes. And that's something I've said before and it's something I believe. I think the scale of the Australian achievement and what this country has achieved has been immense but, just as you salute and express pleasure about what you have achieved, you should truthfully recognise mistakes. And I'm sure that that language is historically accurate and I believe most Australians would probably accept it.

MATT PEACOCK: Yet despite that major blemish, there's no mention of restitution or compensation.

JOHN HOWARD: Well it's not appropriate in something like this.

MATT PEACOCK: It's purely symbolic?

JOHN HOWARD: Well it is symbolic, yes, it is. When you say purely symbolic is to discount the value of symbolism.

MATT PEACOCK: Well I mean you can have a pure symbol but the point is it has no...It's like the preamble, no legal...

JOHN HOWARD: No, it doesn't have any legal effect, no, and it's not meant to. It's meant to be an expression of national sentiment and a deliberative acknowledgement of what occurred but in the context of it being not a legally binding thing. I mean the question of whether rights have been infringed is a matter for the law and the courts, not for the Parliament in something like this.

MATT PEACOCK: Now the resolution is all about past generations. And yet Kim Beazley pointed out in his speech, some of this stuff did not happen all that long ago.

JOHN HOWARD: Well I don't, I mean I don't, I don't this morning...

MATT PEACOCK: It was your generation and his generation.

JOHN HOWARD: Well I don't accept everything that Mr Beazley says about that.

MATT PEACOCK: Do you accept that?

JOHN HOWARD: I don't accept his analysis. I do accept that the practices went on for a considerable period of time. This motion does not specifically refer to the stolen, so-called stolen generation issue or separation of children issue. And it talks generically about past practices and there's good reason for that.

MATT PEACOCK: It's a bit of a cop out, though, isn't it?

JOHN HOWARD: No, it's not a cop out.

MATT PEACOCK: 'Past practices'; it wasn't us.

JOHN HOWARD: No, I'm sorry. It is not a cop out. It is achieving a balance that the great majority of the Australian community can support and accommodate. I am the Prime Minister for the whole country, not just for one section, and in phrasing something like this, you must pay regard to the sensitivities of many people who in the past thought they were doing the right thing in being involved in policies and practices affecting indigenous people which, by today's standards, are no longer acceptable and indeed are regarded as quite unacceptable.

MATT PEACOCK: Do you accept that members of your generation were responsible for these blemishes that you talk about.

JOHN HOWARD: Well I don't believe that the collective responsibility for these past deeds should be accepted by the current generation, no.

MATT PEACOCK: But they are people...

JOHN HOWARD: Well, Matt, you've asked me the question. I've given you the answer. I don't agree with that proposition and I'm not going to alter my view.

MATT PEACOCK: Prime Minister, thanks for joining us.

PETER CAVE: John Howard with our chief political correspondent, Matt Peacock.