McMaster Women in Tech: Hanna Haponenko - January 2021 Changemaker

McMaster Women in Tech: Hanna Haponenko - January 2021 Changemaker

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Hello and welcome. My name is Gayleen Gray,  assistant vice-president and chief technology   officer at McMaster University, and I'm really  thrilled to be here today with Hanna Haponenko,   who is joining me as our January McMaster  Women in IT Changemaker. And I'm really   thrilled. I was joking with Hanna earlier that  she's the HH and I'm the GG, and we're here to   break into a really interesting conversation  about Hanna and the wonderful work she's doing   both in terms of her affiliation with McMaster as  a PhD student but also a fantastic endeavour that   she's undertaken, Axcessiom Technologies,  and we're going to get into that as well.   Welcome, Hanna, and congratulations and thank  you for being part of our program. Thank you   so much Gayleen. I'm so honoured to be featured  in the series. I hope that I can provide some,  

you know, important or exciting information today,  and I just want to thank you for being able to   feature all of the women in the series because, as  I was talking before, I feel like women are not,   you know, they're-- I feel like they're a  little shyer maybe than their male counterparts,   maybe not always, so it's just nice being able  to have a platform and just openly talk about,   you know, whatever, dealing with tech or education  or anything like that, so thank you so much.   Oh it's my distinct pleasure, and I'm so fortunate  because McMaster University has so many really   talented, wonderful achievers, such as yourself,  Changemakers. So Hanna I hope today you might   start off by just giving us a little bit of a  background on who you are and how you fit into the   McMaster environment and what you're studying and  then I think we both agree we really want to delve   into your exciting outside of McMaster affiliated  to McMaster endeavours, so, please, over to you.  

Let's hear a little bit more about Hanna. Thanks,  yeah, so I guess I'll give a little bit of a   background. I came to McMaster in 2013 as a health  science student who was originally like dead set   on entering medical school, you know, four years  went by, slowly started to realize that wasn't   really, you know, in my-- like I just i just  became a little bit disenchanted with it for a   variety of reasons, as students do, right. You go  to university to figure out what you don't want to   do most of the time. So I ended up having a chat  with my now supervisor of my PhD, Dr. Hongjin Sun,   I originally just wanted to look for a summer job,  a summer research assistant job, what have you,   because I didn't really know what to do after my  undergrad, and so he offered me a chance for me to   try out the graduate program. So in the  psychology neuroscience and behavioural   department at McMaster, you can enter as a  master's student and then if you are seen as   having the potential and the ability to enter a  PhD program, you can kind of just migrate into it   without completing your master's, so that's what  I did. I study human perception and cognition in a  

simulated driving context or a simulated 3D world  and right now my thesis deals with basically   analyzing how people react and detect targets in  this simulated world. So in the lab we have a--   well, before COVID, we would have participants  come in and kind of immerse themselves in this   virtual world and they would notice a bunch  of, you know, objects on the screen and   we would analyze their reaction times, their  accuracy rates, depending on where these objects   occurred in simulated space, simulated depth  space, so basically my thesis kind of involves   looking at how responses to locations that  people have already seen are suppressed. So   people are a lot slower at responding to an area  in space that they've seen before. Evolutionarily,   this makes sense, you know, you don't want to  look in the same place twice if you're trying to   run away from a predator or or trying to find  something for survival. So yeah I study the   inhibition of return, that's my thesis. So as I  entered my second year of grad school, my PhD now,  

I started to slowly kind of realize that as fun as  research was in an academic setting, it can be--   to put it bluntly, bureaucratic, kind of slow,  you know, for a reason, right. You're trying to   find the answer to something that's so niche  and you have to really think deeply about it,   so definitely understand the pace there. But  with that in mind, I started kind of looking   into industry, specifically related to tech, you  know. We use technology in the lab quite a lot, so   it just seemed like a natural kind of transition.  I went to a conference called Collision in Toronto  

in 2019 where I met my partner of the startup I'm  involved in, his name is Shanjay Kailayanathan.   So when he was, I believe 15 or 16, he was  driving and got into a vehicle, like a motor   vehicle accident, and he became quadriplegic as  a result. Three years after a lot of rehab he   started driving and so the way he's able to  drive is using his hands, so like his left   hand would push and pull a mechanism to  break or throttle gas. And his right hand  

is connected to this little knob that's connected  to the larger steering wheel so he can turn   at a much smaller radius than you know the actual  steering wheel. So he's able to drive that way but   the caveat here is if he wants to turn on his turn  signal, his windshield wipers, open his window,   you know, turn on his A/C, his radio, he has to  let go of these crucial functions to do that.   This is like very difficult for him, sometimes  impossible. And the Canadian policymakers are just   like, that's okay, we don't need to treat disabled  folk at the same standard as abled folk, so it's   absurd like he got his license without being able  to check all of the requirements and during his   driver exam, which the, you know, the invigilator  was just like, that's okay, that's fine,   which is not a good thing because it's unsafe and,  you know. It doesn't make sense in a world where   we have so many people getting  into motor vehicle accidents a day,   you know, to put this person into this precarious  situation. It's just unfair. So we, he and I,   met at that Collision conference, at that  tech conference, and he knew that I was   studying human vision, human attention, I was  dabbling with some computer vision a toy project   at the time, and he knew I was involved in  machine learning as well. So he brought me on as a  

kind of like software developer for the first  year. We made a minimum viable product that   basically leveraged facial gestures to control  the functions that I was talking to you about, so   like if you smile, the machine would recognize  that and the windshield wipers would turn on. If   you blink with your left eye, the left  turn signal would turn on; right eye,   right turn signal. And obviously these facial  gestures, were still developing. But these facial  

gestures can be customized so like a lot of people  can't blink with one of their eyes really well   let's say or maybe they've had a stroke-- maybe  half of their face is paralyzed so you can kind   of-- the the user can customize what facial  gestures to use rather than us hard-coding them.   So it's been two years since my involvement. We've  hired two full-time employees, over 10 volunteers   and interns and Shanjay and I remain unpaid  but very passionate because we are very close   to finishing our prototype. So right now, we're  actually reverse engineering a 2016 Dodge Caravan.   As soon as we do that and connect it with  our facial gesture software, we'll be able   to test drive on a test track. So yeah, that's  basically what's in store for us in the new year.   That was a mouthful; I'm sorry. I feel like I just  like-- That's great, no. Hanna, that's amazing. I   mean I think it's really an interesting story on  a few multiple levels, one being your early point   which is, you know, you come in as a student with  expectations about what you want to do and you've   taken a right turn from your original plan but  the humanistic side of the technology development   and use that you've been tapping into really does  tie back to some of those values you probably had,   you know, at the core of your decision around  health sciences as a starting point. And so  

I think that's really amazing. And we've had some  conversations with some other McMaster women in   IT Changemakers around the integration and  intersection of health and technology and so   you're really-- you're taking that because there  is a health component to this obviously as well.   Yeah and I love that because-- so you mentioned  that and I don't mean to bash anyone else   who's-- okay let me just say it this way:  I value technology in a sense where if the   technology can truly help a person and  increase their happiness, increase their   livelihood, increase their ability to give back to  the economy in a constructive way, I'm all for it.   You know, there's a lot of other tech  spheres which, you know, I don't, like   not that I don't agree with but I just-- I like  when tech can really change the planet, you know,   not just kind of help someone, you know, shop  easier, like which is fine, like that's great and   like it's helped me. Like I use, you know, many  different plugins and what have you, but yeah,   it's different when you're trying to increase  like the socioeconomic status of like a population   which is what we try to do. We're trying to  have people develop the confidence to drive   on roads if they've never driven before or to  drive just more seamlessly, you know. Absolutely,  

yeah, and I think, you know, what you've said  is really valid and we talk about it from the   McMaster IT Strategic Plan perspective; we talk  about something delightful technology. I think the   volume went out. Okay. Yes. Yeah, we talked about  in the McMaster IT Strategic Plan, we talk about   delightful technologies and, you know,  we're obviously-- I'm a practitioner   so we deliver systems for all sorts of different  reasons. I agree with you the the value is not   technology for the sake of technology, it's what  can it do to help us achieve whatever our mission,   goal or enable us to do more with what we, you  know, more-- enhance our lives and prove what we   want to do. So I think your reflection is really  valid and, you know, you really are creating   something that has such a great opportunity to  provide people with freedom and independence,   which I think is extremely fantastic, and I can  only imagine. So you talked a little bit about   free work, which is one of the interesting things  I think as a PhD student and somebody involved in   your research environment, you probably  spend a lot of time doing things where   you feel like there's no immediate payback,  so to speak, and now you're doing that as a   work within a delivery model as well. Can you  talk a little bit about that passion that you have  

and, you know, what what is it that motivates  you from a technology perspective and from a   delivery perspective to stay on track with both  your research and this exciting endeavour that   you and Shanjay are working on. I think  one of the biggest gripes I have with, you know, completing a PhD or being in academia is   you create all this fantastic knowledge or  you find this fantastic discovery, let's say   or maybe it's, you know, it's fantastic to you or  to to a niche amount of people, which is fine, and   you write an article about it, it gets published,  if you're really popular you'll get 2,000 reads;   if you're really popular in my field anyway.  Okay. And what then? Like are you actually--   can I make something out of this, that's the  question that I found myself asking two years   ago when I started working with Shanjay  is yes, I can actually make something   tangible that people can put into their cars  or let's say, you know, in another realm, they   can actually use this and and have their lives  changed in a tangible in like a very physical way.   With my PhD, I'll create a thesis and I'll,  you know, my dissertation will be out there,   but will I actually continue studying this very,  very esoteric topic? Can I actually do something   and apply something, you know, that I've learned  from it? Maybe. But it's just not as-- I think   the reason that I can kind of balance the two  together is that I'm finding something very, you   know-- I'm trying to answer a question in my PhD  and I'm trying to answer a question with Axcessiom   but with Axcessiom, I can actually make  something, you know, physical out of it. I'm   making a product. With my PhD, it's not as easy,  so I think maybe the reason that I stay in both  

is kind of related to, yeah, I want to make  something but I also want to be able to think   deeply about something, so, some, like I  don't know. It's a weird balancing act.   Well I can only imagine it takes up an awful lot  of your time and your thinking space because you   do have to stay quite focused on the research  side. Yeah. What's really exciting and I think   this is, you know, a piece that I like to  talk to Changemakers about is the inspiring   aspect of this. So there's a real-- what  you're doing not only is inspiring from   the Axcessiom perspective but it's also inspiring  for people who are thinking, so other women who   may be thinking about moving into a PhD. How do  you take something that is so, to your point,   niche, really deep in terms of the hypothesis or  question you're trying to answer and then find   a way through networking frankly, it sounds  like that's actually how you found this way,   to use that as a springboard into something that  will have a more practical, and I don't want to,   you know similar, to yourself indicate that  there isn't practicalities in research because   obviously the idea is to answer questions that  can help to springboard innovation and outcomes.  

But talk about the inspiration that you might be  able to provide to other women who are thinking,   like how do these things all intersect. So I think  it's natural to not continue with something that   you've started, let's say in school, you know.  I'm doing this PhD but the thing is I can take   what I've learned from my PhD and transfer it  to my startup so I don't have to be studying   inhibition of return for my entire life. I  don't have to apply it but I've learned other  

skills from my PhD, so, you know, machine learning  techniques, any sort of like data analysis, being   able to run an experiment from the start to the  end, just being able to logically frame a study   and kind of plan out a project. Those skills  I've taken and applied them to Axcessiom which--   it doesn't-- we don't really study human vision.  We do analyze human attention because we need to   know where people are looking, how they're  experiencing their driving environment and   then we apply computer vision algorithms to that.  So it's, yeah, I feel like women may be able to  

get inspired by not pigeonholing themselves into  one thing, you know. Just because you're studying   something in undergrad, master's in PhD doesn't  mean that you have to continue studying it.   The context might be different but the skills you  learn can be transferred to a new context. And I   think that's probably the best kind of takeaway  I have from doing both things at the same time,   yeah. That's perfect. I think that's really  helpful, and I agree with you. Obviously  

everything that we do, you know, there's learning  in almost any activity, whether it's work,   study or even social interaction, we're  always in learning mode. I am curious for   you in terms of mentorship. Have you had any  mentors who've helped you to think differently   about how you've approached both your research  or your study and this startup environment? Are   there any individuals that have helped you to  galvanize your own energy in that direction?   So we were talking about John Bandler,  professor emeritus. I always get that--   we were talking about John Bandler, professor  emeritus; he basically has helped mentor me   to give my three-minute thesis in 2019. Actually  before I met Shanjay. At that time I was talking  

about my PhD and then he again mentored me for  the 2020 March Three-minute thesis which got   cancelled because of the lockdown. And he told  me something really fascinating. I told him,   listen I don't think I want to talk about my PhD  anymore, like I don't even know like what I'm,   you know, I just had this intense kind of imposter  syndrome about my PhD, and like I didn't know what   to talk about. It was going to be, I don't know,  nothing really new, and I told him about Axcessiom   and the work I was doing there and he said, what  do you like? What do you mean? Like you should   definitely talk about that in your three-minute  thesis because from your PhD you branched out   to the startup and you were able to tie the two  together. Yes, they're not completely the same   but they're so similar enough that you can talk  about how you've applied your PhD in a sense.   So he was very helpful in helping me understand  that, yeah, I can do both things at once, and   I can relate them in ways that I didn't think  before were were possible. I'm finding new links,  

you know, between my PhD and my startup every day.  And it's great. You know, my supervisor has been   so supportive in me basically managing a startup,  like he knows I want to go into industry. He sets   my semesters up in a way where we, you know,  form strict kind of plans and contingency plans   in case, you know, I can't, you know, because of  like coronavirus I couldn't complete like my--   culminating like PhD experiments, so he gave  me like a different way to think about it. And,  

you know, he knows I want to finish in time so  I can enter industry. He's been super helpful.   Dr. Hongjin Sun, if you're listening, you're the  best. And yeah, so those two and then mentors at   The Forge when we were-- our startup was, you  know, involved with them several mentors at The   Forge. Maria, Chris have been extremely helpful  in, you know, pushing us forward. That's great,   and thank you. I was going to ask you to actually  name your supervisor as well because I think it's,  

you know, we're so fortunate. None of us walk  alone in terms of the work we do or in your case   obviously both your research as well as your  your outcomes with your startup. So it's great   to actually name people who supported you. And  I thought maybe in the last couple of minutes,   Hanna, we could talk just briefly about, you know,  the leadership aspect of what you're doing and   how are you going to pay this forward? Have you  thought about that? Obviously you're contributing   to society through the work you're doing at  Axcessiom, which is amazing. Can you think   about your way forward as you come to the end of  your PhD. I know that probably shocks you. Wow. To  

think that that's coming to the end. How can you  pay it forward and how can you help other students   understand that the leadership elements that  are so important in contributing to community?   I think two two things, so I've informally peer  mentored or mentored or had discussions with   other individuals from my PhD program. Some of  these individuals have expressed concern and,   you know, a little dispassion associated with  their studies. And I always just tell them,   hey like just look for jobs in like industry while  you're in your PhD and some of them have actually   gotten jobs in that way. I've hired people to  volunteer for my startup where I've taught them   very important skills. Many of these people have  gotten jobs because of this volunteership that   I've given them. You know, it's-- we're definitely  like a learning-teaching startup, so we really  

focus on developing the skills of our volunteers  rather than just having them like do things   without guidance. So through career treks at  McMaster through Anna Magnotta. I've hired people   that way as well and, you know. I think that those  kind of connections are the most valuable because   I'm not just telling somebody to do something or  to think a certain way. I'm actually teaching them  

a skill that they can use to then go on to their  next, you know, land on their next stone. So I   think giving back by just teaching people has been  kind of the highlight of me paying it forward.   Great, yeah, thank you for sharing that. I think  that's really exciting and obviously there's some   real tangible outcomes in the near term. You  talked about the Dodge Caravan that you're  

outfitting right now with all of your controls.  And I'm really excited to see how that manifests   for you in terms of how you're then going to be  able to showcase your technology developments   for industry. I'm sure you're going to get a  lot of interest around that as well. Does that,   I mean does that drive you? Are you feeling quite  excited about it? I'm scared. I won't feel good   until we've sold to one person. So I'm just always  kind of looking into the-- I think this is a quote   by Elon Musk, like managing a startup is like  looking into the abyss while chewing on glass.   And like I feel that a lot because I'm just, you  know, prototyping is one thing but then customer   acquisition is a whole other thing. So, yeah, I  mean the problems will just kind of keep rolling  

forward-- not problems but challenges because I  really do see them as exciting challenges. But   I'm excited and scared because I want it to work  and I want it to, you know, be done hopefully very   soon. And I think, I don't know, I'm just excited.  Oh I think you should be excited. It's a really   exciting story, and I think that, you know, that  kind of fear component can be a high motivator so   don't discount the importance of having that,  you know, kind of-- Anxiety is good. I think  

it's good, like body control-- in a healthy way,  yeah, like a healthy amount, yeah. Exactly. Hanna,   honestly, it's just been a joy to speak to you  and hear just such a short amount of time that   we've had today but a really exciting story that  you have to share with us in our McMaster Women   in IT Changemaker series. Clearly so much more  to come from you and I want to congratulate you   both for being part of our series-- we're  really honoured to have you here but   also really thrilled to see what you're doing and  how you've been able to leverage your energy and   your education into something that's really going  to have a huge impact on society and individuals   such as Shanjay, your partner at Axcessiom. Really  excited. So last word to you, last word to you.   Thank you so much. I really am so honoured to be  a Changemaker. I have been following the series,   you know, for months and I just thought, oh my  god, like I would love to be on it. So I just  

had such a fabulous discussion with you, Gayleen.  Thank you so much for giving me a platform again   and I really hope that if anyone is watching  this, they can feel free to contact me,   search me up on LinkedIn, whatever, shoot me  an email. I'd love to have a chat and pay it   forward that way as well. That's amazing.  Thank you so much, best of luck to you   and we'll look forward to following your  story, Hanna. Thank you so much. Cheers.

2021-02-02 05:42

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