Online activism in China

Murder and theft

Less heinous when the victims are the police, and Microsoft?

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I'm so sick of your tones identical to CCP's propoganda "Don’t view China with colored glasses or with prejudice." And bla bla.
Can u fully understand Economist' report before you post your complaints? Economist is discribing a weird viewpoint of Chinese netizens that a 6-policemen-killer is not that guilty. The passage didn't mention Microsoft although its name implys that Chinese netizens also believe piracy of Microsoft product is in some way acceptable.
Economist didn't say what he considered the insane thoughts of Chinese netizens. You might think Chinese netizens are crazy mobs. You might think Chinese policemen or Microsoft deserve the hatred. That's up to you anyway!

Nico JL

what Yang Jia has done to police is no different from what Osama bin Laden has done to American people. It is revenge and killing innocent people.


A nut case that stabs 6 unarmed policeman to death is adorned as a symbol for freedom by the economist and its followers. This goes to show how far the west will go and how twisted their morals are to destabilize China. All these freedom/democracy loving westerners, where is your moral high ground now?


Violence begets violence. Mr. Yang was wrong to kill 6 police officers, regardless of any perceived wrong doing they did to him. That said, Mr. Yang's case is important because it has encouraged an oppressed populace to stand up to their government.

In the end Mr. Yang deserves to be punished to the full extent of the law. The only good to come out of his case might be increased accountability within the Chinese legal system.


There is nothing wrong in execution of Mr. Yang. Chinese Government is trying to uplift living standards of masses in an orderly manner. Some people may have to wait longer for getting their turn. That does not mean, one has freedom to do anything. In Texas one can get shot at by a homeowner, when somebody enters his outer premises. There is no protection for the trespasser. Mr. Yang was a trespasser. See what happens in democratic India. 60% of people live in slums in Mumbai, depriving of proper orderly development of he city


In my view, Mr. Yang and the six policemen all are victims of the damned social system of this country where struggles between different hierarchies are getting to be more furious.

Yang is a martyr who represents lots of petitioners who have no legitimate and reasonable channel (lex) to protect themselves' natural rights. When they found that courtrooms were nothing but puppets and whores of party and government, what would they do?

Mencius said, " Death (penalty) could not frighten 'citizens' when they would not fear it anymore." Why would these people rather like to choose a suicide-sytle solution, not a legal way? Reviewing Chinese history, people never had a chance to become real "CITIZEN" as a notion founded on the base of "LAW".

Practically, grass roots in a "Republic" country dominated by political and martial violence have to use primitive violence to resist these vicious powers.

One Yang is executed, millions Yang arise, they are not lamb anymore. (In Chinese "Yang" has the same pronunciation as lamb or sheep.)


As a chinese who deeply love his motherland,I deeply feel embarrassed that we have a devil regime like CPC .
I think the CPC regime cann't represent chinese people.

The great chinese culture was destroyed by Mao and his gang,and the traditional chinese virtue was destroyed by Deng.
So,I prefer Hu-Wen government,but they are so timid and cautious.


maybe he(Yang)deserved it(death sentence)in that how he would face the kins of the dead police.


How much does Microsoft sell its products in the U.S., and how much does an average American earn? Then what about applying the question to the Chinese?

I can understand Microsoft's point, but does it make any sense to an end-user who apparently cannot afford the legal software? Also, it does not make sense when a company has to lower down its price in a nation and doesn't do that in all the others.

Thus, the "point" of the conflict is "isn't that possible that most of the Chinese simply shall not use a Microsoft product, at least not so updated one?" or "Isn't that possible that Microsoft could be so nice to produce less 'expensive' softwares that serve most of the basic needs of a common family, and then promote those highly comprehensive and complicated and of course expensive softwares to enterprise users? "

I interned in Microsoft for a while, and I know that is a difference between the two types, but apparently, most of the people do not see the difference so clearly. Or, is it possible that the difference becomes quite vague when an end-user simply cannot understand the software so much as Microsoft desires?

There is a way out when you know your point is not a point when nobody but you agrees to that.


Killing 6 police is a guaranty death sentence in any country, let's be frank. However, this Yang guy does represent some views shared by the average Chinese. Police and civil servants' reputations are at all time low in CCP's history. Ironically this may be the most peaceful and prosperous of times in CCP's history, inequality is the main reason, though on the surface it is corruption. And he is a remarkable person, good or bad, his story seems like a classical Shakespearean tragedy. Contrary to the image of Chinese as a dull person who works hard and do not complain, there is another side, that leads them to violence and uprising, there is a believe that planted since the end of Chin that all man are equal, when life becomes unbearable then risk yours to avenge. At the center stage are always people like Yang, in peaceful time he is an outlaw, at unsettling time he would be the so called "revolutionary". If you look at history you may be surprised to find that Chinese uprising is more frequent than most other people throughout history. People like Yang is a reminder to the government that, treat people with care and dignity then you may be loved, treat them like dirt and your end days may be near.


I am Chinese and live in China for all my life. It’s inconceivable for some to connect Yang Jia to Tiananmen Square movement about 20 years ago. Killing 6 innocent police should be condemned in any country whether it’s for his own purpose or for “political” reasoning. It’s true that there are contradictions or conflicts between police and ordinary citizens when they involved in day-to-day law enforcement such cases as urban management and public security. A few policemen take brutality to suspects but there are only a few. And it’s those few who sabotage images police carries with them in their daily operation. Anyway that would not be an excuse for supporting Yang Jia to murder.
It’s unfair to politicize any report related to China and it’s ridiculer to amplify a clear criminal case. Don’t view China with colored glasses or with prejudice. China is on its way to establish a more sound law system in which everyone’s lawful right be protected, not one group or another.
Yang’s case is too extreme to be typical and American people may well remember Simpson’s case and its outlook. Neither should we compare Yang to Simpson in that all evident was enough to prove his guilty without any doubt.
Yang’s case might serve as an example to show those disadvantageous, among whom Yang is one need more attention or care from society in China that is speeding toward market economy.
China today is not what it was 20 years back when there was lack of lawful governance.


east wind,I am so sure that he had actually meant political reform, otherwise he would not have ordered the Tienanmen Massacre, and Zhao Ziyang would not had been under house arrest for a better part of his life. On the contrary I believe he was an old-school revolutionary whose key objective of doing economical reform was to perpetuate the absolute authoritative rule of the CCP.

Payne CHU

Some methods should be taken to put the police's attention on the humanity ,not the operation rate of the crime.


“Very soon, these netizens may start organizing NGOs to lobby the govt for things like less police brutality, for more democratic rights , etc etc”east wind, you have touched on a very important point. Not that I think what you said is going to happen soon, but that it will NEVER happen (and might most likely be repressed brutally) unless there is some fundamental changes in the political system.I will quote a number of examples to illustrate my point:1. Firstly I would like go back to the issue of brutality towards early Falun Gong members who refused to condemn their own religion and who kept going back to Beijing to demonstrate after they had been sent back (by force) to their rural homes. The Central Government would impose heavy fines to the rural CCP cadres; in addition, if those sent back were found demonstrating in Beijing again, more fines would be levied. And the fines went all the way down to the local police and the prison guards, and these “little potatoes” would start extorting the fines from these Falun Gong members through beating them up. Some of them managed to savage enough money from relatives; those unable to pay would be beaten by, some seriously crippled, and some beaten to death. The moral of the story is CCP can claim that they have nothing to do with these police brutality, they JUST imposing “administrative fines”! An example of “the King’s new clothes”.2. One more example. During the Sichuan earthquake, when angry and aggrieved parents wanted to go to court to sue whoever would be responsible for building those tofu-buildings, the police came in and drove out (needless to say by force, but fortunately with media on the watch) those parents from the court. And in front of the media, a local CCP head-cadre even knelt down to the parents asking down not to push their petition further (again, fortunately with media on the watch – well, perhaps unfortunately for the head-cadre). I will conclude that the Central Government must be putting pressure in terms of monetary reward/punishment to suppress the demonstration/petition of the angry parents. Deng’s saying “No matter whether it is black or white, it will be a good cat as long as it can catch mice” looms its ugly head here. The message is that CCP will condone the use of brutality as long as it can help solving the problem. How has that taught China’ law enforcement people? The message is clear: “No matter what I do will be fine, I am a good cop (or any law enforcement officer), as long as I get the job down”Hence, change MUST be from the very top. Given that in the modern internet-connected-world, there will always be people who would not agree with certain Government policy, there will ALWAYS be demonstrations and petitions. These difference voices must be allowed to be voiced and proper channels (e.g. independent courts and legal system) must be established to settle these matters (a very important point here: the petitioners might be on the wrong side, and they should be told to be so by a society-accepted independent body that ultimately would mean a law court).Without the Government taking this leadership role to carry out this kind of political reform, there will always be law enforcement officer who would think like this, “If it is OK for CCP to use brutality to get whatever they want, it will for be OK for me to be brutal for my own private gain”.In conclusion: to solve the problem, things have to come from the top, and starting with political matters. And needless to say, change will be easier said than done.


East Wind-
No-of course there is no police brutality in western countries. Also, the police also don't ride in cars like you might see in movies; they actually ride unicorns and toss out gum drops and rose pedals. Babies never cry here, and no one dies. Life is fair and just.
When have I ever claimed that western police forces or western countries were ever perfect. But your total inability to face any form of commentary leads even casual observers to think that you are either very insecure or that you are hiding something. Every little subject that includes China you view as slight, insult, biased, etc… If I said that at midnight it is night in China you would respond “Oh my your blind-the sun is blazing”.
So let us see what this pedantic little adventure, and the other comments you have made on this forum, have gotten you. If it is attention you want, then I guess you have won: the forum has been monopolised with your fatuous posts. If the goal was to waste my time, then, again, mission accomplished. But actually this is sort of a fun and relaxing way to spend a few minutes on a Sunday afternoon. Maybe the goal was to make you feel powerful via overcompensation for some physical deficiency. This might even be your job, and you are working in some CCP internet regulating beehive somewhere, in which case fair play, although I think you could be doing a better job.
Lets just forget about your motivations. What you are doing here is ultimately a web-based form of bullying. You don’t actually believe the lies you are telling or the accusations you are making, and you know that no one else believes them either.
No matter what you say or do, there are several things that will continue to happen at an accelerating rate:
-China will gain more and more international prominence, power, and influence (probably something you like).
-More and more foreign national will live and work in China (probably something you will not like).
-The Chinese government will likely become more accountable to the Chinese people, and the people will have more power versus the government (probably something everyone-including you-will like).
-Chinese women and non-Chinese men will date, marry, and have children more than before, and likewise for Chinese men and foreign women (probably something you will not like).

As for white supremacy, let us just remember who the real racial supremacists/chauvinists are: The one you see in your mirror every morning. The country that calls itself the "middle kingdom", as in the middle point between the earth (full of barbarians except for the Chinese), and heaven. A country whose laws do not allow immigration to those who are not of Chinese ancestry (race). A country where ethnic persecution of non-Han peoples is prevalent. Yes China is the biggest country in the world, but it is still much smaller than the rest of the world put together. And all you are doing is trying to get the rest of the divided world to have one thing in common-a distaste for your name calling and distortion. The saddest thing about this is that I have spent a lot of time in China and have had some of the best times of my life there. I spent two weeks studying at Beida in July. Beijing is wonderful in summer, I had an amazing time. Beida was engaging, I met lots of clever students, made love with a beautiful Chinese PHD candidate, ate at Quanjude, etc... The point is you are often hurting and alienating the people who like, respect, and are interested in China the most. And it is ultimately because of hatred-you have always, and will always, hate me. You even hated me before I was born. And this brings us back to your motivations-to fight and cause irritation, annoyance, and pain to those you hate but have never known or met.


-->Both Prsident HU and PM WEN are very interested to get the peoples feedback thru the internet

This is really the news. In cases that a lot of information disappeared, I guess "Prsident HU and PM WEN" liked it so much that they decided to saft-kept it (in the dungen). And to people like HuJia (whose crimes included providing feedback on internet), "Prsident HU and PM WEN" were so interested that they decided to keep him in CCP's guest house (the jail).

-- />you are doing the govt and the nation a great service
YOU (and only you) are doing the (CCP's) gove and the nation a great service.


Criminals gaining popularity are common through times and countries.Last week in France I heard tons of speeches on the radio about a guy named mesrine or something like that, who was active in some criminal activity a long time ago, and seems still worth remembering...This article has 6 paragraphs: 4 are about Yang who killed six unarmed policemen and for some reason gained support from the chinese public, and than the fifth paragraph shifts to a blackscreen problem inflicted by microsoft on chinese users...Of course, no one comments on the blackscreen issue, but I wonder, do they want to make us think it is somehow the same quality of wrongness, to voice some support for a man who killed six policemen and to complainn about a blackscreen every hour because you have a windows pirate version?Because, I can't see how a normally thinking person can link the murderer case with the blackscreen case. At least, I cannot.So, I would like to know, what is this article about?and I read this:More articles about: Intellectual property Microsoft Internet.Go, go on discussing Yang and china but you will remember piracy is theft and not so far from murder...


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