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Messages - Maintain FL 350

I've pondered this issue before, and I'm still somewhat skeptical.

Rule 4.30 deals with foreign law schools, but says absolutely nothing about foreign-based distance learning programs. That leads me to believe that the issue is open to interpretation by the state bar. If so, there are several ways they could go. They could cobble together a rule from several existing rules and find that 1) since a Northumbria degree qualifies the holder to practice in the U.K., and 2) since CA accepts both LL.Bs and distance learning degrees (usually), the Northumbria LL.B qualifies.

Conversely, they could find that since foreign DL degrees are not mentioned in Rule 4.30, the rule is inapplicable. They could also find that as a non-ABA/non-CBE/non-registered foreign DL program, Northumbria cannot be found to be equivalent to an ABA/CBE degree.

I know that there's a lot of anti-DL sentiment on these boards, and that's not the basis of my skepticism. It's that Calbar, as liberal as they may be, don't seem terribly interested in allowing foreign DL degrees to qualify. I've met several CA attorneys with foreign degrees (U.K., Ireland, Phillipines), but never a foreign DL degree.

There is a very simple test you can do before spending time and money on an LL.B/LL.M in hopes of getting admitted: contact both Calbar and Northumbria and ask if any Northumbria distance learning LL.B grads have been admitted in CA. That should clear up the issue pretty fast.


The market is bad, but let's not get carried away. I live and work in LA, one of the worst legal markets for new grads. I have never  heard of an "experienced attorney" competing for a $10/hr job with high school grads. I assume that you're in NY, and perhaps the market there is significantly worse.

Frankly, an experienced attorney who is competing for a $10/hr job has problems that go far beyond the economy. An experienced attorney should be able to go solo and make more than $10/hr.

What I do see are a lot of new grads with very little experience competing for entry level associate positions, deputy DA/PD, etc. , against attorneys who have 2-3 years experience. Many of the new grads think that their grades and pedigree should land them the job, but fail to understand that small firms and govt offices don't have the money train someone. At non-biglaw/non-federal jobs, applicable experience trumps just about everything else. I would encourage every law student to worry less about grades and to focus on gaining experience and networking. It will help you far more than being able to say "I got an A in civpro."

One quick example: my friend went to law school part-time at a T4 and worked in a small family law office during the day. By the time she graduated she had four years of experience doing everything from interviewing clients, to making appearances, to writing motions. On top of that, she hustled like crazy and made tons of connections. She had job offers at graduation, before passing the bar. She found a niche, focused on gaining real experience, and it paid off. She was probably in a better position than a UCLA grad with better  grades and one internship under their belt.   

It's very difficult straight out of law school for most new lawyers, but it does get better after a couple of years. I truly believe that many law students could reduce their disappointment by being a little more realistic about where they're likely to get employed (small firms, doing non-glamorous work like DUIs and divorces), and gaining real experience (not just research-based summer associate positions).




Law School Applications / Re: Applying before graduation?
« on: October 22, 2012, 07:01:21 PM »
As soon as you graduate (which will be only a month after you submit your application, right?) you have the last semester's grades and proof of graduation sent to the law school. LSAC has all the info you need on how to do this. It's not a problem, tons of people apply to law school before they've graduated.

Where should I go next fall? / Re: How important is location?
« on: October 20, 2012, 07:37:55 PM »





As long as you attend a CBE accredited school, you'll be exempt from the FYLSE (unless you're disqualified and have to seek re-admission, I think).

California has CBE accredited schools, unaccredited registered schools, and unaccredited unregistered schools. If you go to either of the last two types you'll have to take the FYLSE. All online or correspondance schools fall into one of those two categories, and a few brick & mortar schools do too (California Southern Law School in Riverside, for example). Make sure to confirm that the school is accredited by Calbar and not just registered.

If you just want it to further your current career and not to practice. There is the EJD Option (can't sit the bar, but no fybx requirment and about 20 less credits required to graduate)

This is just my opinion, but I think that the potential benefits of an EJD accrue to very, very few people. For the vast majority of students an EJD is waste of time and money.

It doesn't qualify you to take the bar, it's almost as expensive as a bar qualifying JD (non-ABA), and nobody takes it seriously anyway. I'm sure that there is always some benefit to acquiring limited, general legal knowledge, but you'd want to do a serious cost/benefit analysis.

I worked at a large national non-profit organization and in consulting before going to law school. JDs, MBAs, and few other degrees were considered beneficial (and sometimes necessary) for promotion. An EJD, especially from an unaccredited online school, would have been pretty much disregarded. I just don't see the investment paying off for most people.

Law School Applications / Re: Odds with a low GPA, but high LSAT score.
« on: October 19, 2012, 02:05:43 AM »
At this point, without a final GPA or LSAT score, everything is pure speculation. You really can't be sure what your GPA will be, and you definitely can't predict your LSAT score. I'm not trying to sound discouraging, but I think most people probably score lower than expected.

Keep your grades up, and study like crazy for the LSAT. Take a prep course as you get closer to applying. Your major will likely have little or no impact on admissions. Even if you don't get into an elite school, a high LSAT will help you get scholarships.

In the US, UofL would be only one with name recognition.

My understanding is that while a standard University of London degree would qualify the holder to take the bar in a few states (CA, NY, and maybe a few others), the U of L online degree would not. Is that correct?

Law School Applications / Re: Chances?
« on: October 18, 2012, 12:40:12 PM »
Do you have any other suggestions of where to apply? 






Elaborate on 1L is a year long standardize test??

Your grades in law school will usually be based on just one exam at the end of each semester. Law school exams are very difficult, comprehensive, stressful affairs for most people. You will spend the entire semester preparing for just one exam. They are nothing like the exams you took in undergrad, and you'll actually be competing for grades with your classmates. A level of performance that would have gotten you a solid "A" in undergrad might get you a C- in law school.

I suppose that law school exams aren't standardized in the strict sense, since each professor creates their own exam, but the format (essay) and topics don't really vary. The point is, if you have a tough time with standardized exams law school is going to be very challenging.

I almost forgot: you will also have to pass the MPRE to graduate, which is a standardized exam.
