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12:10:37 AM Mar 13th 2014
... The video game of Hunter: The Reckoning isn't an RPG, but I'm not sure what genre heading to put it under. It's most similar to the more modern Gauntlet games like Legends and Dark Legacy, but Hack and Slash doesn't seem quite right in this case.
09:55:38 AM Nov 18th 2013
edited by
"In A Link to the Past the entrance to the dungeon in the Village of Outcasts is blocked by a trident held by a statue. There are no switches to open it and none of your items can break it, so how do you get past it? Just pull it off."

Very debatable as to how realistic or commonsensical this approach actually is. One doesn't generally assume the entrance to a vital enemy area to be that easily overcome without a very good reason, either in video games or reality.
07:51:00 PM Oct 13th 2013
Does the way to open the gate near the beginning of Brutal Legend (stand between the counterweights and use the Earthshaker ability) count for an example? Or did that method occur to everyone else?
09:32:30 AM Oct 14th 2013
Some more context, please?
06:09:03 PM Aug 14th 2013
The description for the page is a wall of waffle and blather. In three days I will remove the waffle and blather. If you find this objectionable, speak now or forever hold your peace.
07:34:21 PM Aug 14th 2013
Yeah. Don't.
07:48:03 PM Aug 14th 2013
Work with me. Communicate. Help me make the page better.
08:11:03 PM Aug 14th 2013
Kinda need to know what you have a problem with. You're the one who basically showed up waving a chainsaw.
08:37:28 PM Aug 14th 2013
edited by
Excellent! Let's go over the changes one paragraph at a time:

Paragraph 1: Looks a lot like the kind of sentence people write in order to show off their mastery of tvtropes-speak, rather than to communicate an idea. It's also a really really run-on sentence.

Solution: Rewrite with less jargon.

Paragraph 2: Last sentence of paragraph is a sudden digression about a different example ('alternatively...')

Solution: Could be moved off into a separate paragraph, but 'deliberately let yourself be captured' is a pretty orthodox trick in stealth games, and is unlikely to be 'unexpected' to anybody. Remove that sentence instead.

Paragraph 3: 'Bashing down doors' is a pretty orthodox part of the RPG genre (you can bash doors in Nethack, Baldur's Gate and Ultima, just off the top of my head.) It's just not very unexpected. And we got the point from the FPS example already.

Solution: Remove that paragraph.

Paragraph 4: Minor neatening.

Paragraph 5: Talking about how videogame physics is unlike real life physics. Using many more words than it needs. And despite this page being about ways videogames are like real life. Also, very few of the examples in the example section are concerned with physics; while a physics engine could make a game 'unexpectedly realistic', it doesn't seem a be major or even significant cause.

Solution: Remove that paragraph.

Paragraph 6: Still talking about how videogames are unlike real life, even though that is the opposite of what this page is about. Mostly seems to be an excuse to gush about Red Faction Guerilla.

Solution: Rewrite, move to examples section.

Taken together, these changes make the description cleaner, easier to read and less prone to odd digressions. No relevant information is lost.
02:42:47 AM Aug 15th 2013
edited by
  1. I don't see the problem.
  2. The paragraph was intended to give two examples from different genres.
  3. The name of the trope is "unexpectedly" realistic gameplay, not "uncommonly" realistic gameplay. Something can be somewhat common and still unexpected, which also ties into the issue with he second paragraph.
  4. I don't see a problem.
  5. I don't see a problem. The point of the trope is that no matter how realistic a game tries to be, it will NOT be completely so. Which is what this paragraph states.
  6. I don't see problem. A physics engine is just ONE example of how the trope can happen.

I don't see a problem with most of the issues presented, although I'm the one who wrote most of it in the YKTTW. No issues were raised there, but if you really want another opinion, I'd bring it up in a TRS topic.

That aside, you're behavior is a bit smug and condescending, especially when you assume the opinions of the writer. Or just show up and announce what you're going to do.
06:51:17 AM Aug 15th 2013
YKTTW is not gospel. A lot of tropes get fixed after they make it live, simply by having a larger audience. I would probably have cut down a lot of the description myself or shoved it into Analysis.

If you can't work it out between yourselves, use this forum thread.
07:00:22 AM Aug 15th 2013
While I think Ninja was a bit... rude about it, he's essentially right. The description needs some trimming. Interestingly, I believe the best solution is to yank the second and fourth paragraphs. We don't need a ton of examples in the description, that's precisely what the examples section is for. And the fourth paragraph is just fluff.

Just my two cents. Basically, I'm somewhere between you two. This is definitely not something for TRS though. The base trope is fine, and the description is essentially good, but could just use some tightening.
08:02:18 PM Aug 16th 2013
edited by
[edit: Whoops! I didn't refresh this page before replying, and got ... ninja'd ... by two other guys. Irony!

But thanks for the support, Fighteer and Larkmarn.]

You wrote it, and also you don't see any problems with it? No shit. :p Why would anybody deliberately write something with problems in it?

When you're editing a wiki, leave your ego at the door. Vigilantly defending your deathless prose against the philistines doesn't do anybody any favours.
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