Britain's future

Goodbye Europe


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Alex DeLarge





The UK has continental Europe a lot to offer and hopefully will stay in the EU. Europe should cooperate in a business-like manner on matters of practical importance, and stop pursuing the establishment of a united superstate. The superstate idea goes back to the Roman Empire and has been the cause of war for 2000 years. Napoleon tried it; Hitler tried it. The EU should not try it. Practical cooperation yes; unification no.








Michael Schwartz in reply to Omiccron

"why do other countries want to join it?"



The idea Britain was lied to is ludicrous. Its an attempt to absolve the politicians of responsibility for ties with Europe they no longer want.

Given this, I earnestly think the rest of the Union should wonder: was De Gaulle right to veto UK Membership in his time?

The European Treaties in the form of the TEU and Single European Act clearly (and in BOLD facing) outline the eventual desire to form a Political, Monetary and even defensive Union. This is literally and very clearly spelled out in the various EU and WEU, EDF and ECSU treaties.


Its not new at all.

It was -> case in point <- actually strongly encouraged and almost mandatory for European Nations to do this in order to receive American Marshall Plan help.

We Europeans would have had a "European Army" if the French assembly hand't voted down and pulled the plug on the idea in the 1950's. (the American wish for a second Pillar within NATO to avoid European freeriding)

This plan included an eventual economic, monetary and political Union.





Why isn't the EU going to become a Federation? Well, legally all European authority in the UK is derived from the UK's signature on the EU treaties. These very same treaties provide for a mechanism for the UK to regain all competences it transfers to the EU, namely article 50 TEU. This is the "Exit" provision.

This simple formal acknowledgement that a nation can leave at any time indicates that the Member States retain their Sovereignty and are at the very least equals to the EU Institutions.

A federation on the other hand does not allow secession. The States are no longer sovereign and are legally unable to take this decision. That's why we had a Secession / Civil war in the United States.

Claiming the EU will turn into a federation is bollocks. It will take on more federal characteristics but its far from a Federation. The EU can't even levy taxes or send in the troops.














"Goodbye Europe" !?

Since that "organisation" in Brussels is not representative of the citizens of Europe and does not intend to become so (democratically) - shouldn't that be:

"Goodbye EU" ??

Trebor Yadsmud


Felipe Coelho

To be or not to be European is a question already answered by geography: Britain is European to the core. Some in Britain could argue that Britain is not so European, she is distinct from all other nations, but this the same tale from Greece to Norway, from Portugal to Russia: each of these nations feel to be a unique nation.
Other strange question is whether or not to establish an European Federation: the European countries are tied together in so many ways that one could call Europe a set of imperfect federations.
The problem is that there are quite a few visions of what European federation Europe should be.

ricardohiro in reply to shedsomelight

I do not think the article is as biased as you think. What I do not understand is your assertion that most British car factories are more efficient than those in the EU (including Germany?). Is there any good evidence? Generally speaking, most British manufacturing industries including automobiles have lost comparative advantage and declined quite long time ago. From a Japanese perspective, there is almost no way for Nissan to stay in Britain if it withdraws from the EU, as Nissan exports are likely to face higher EU tariff and other barriers. I think the anti-EU British should understand how much they benefit by being a member of the EU. Without being an EU member, Britain will be an even less significant economic actor in the global economy and will further decline after it has already declined for almost a century. The problem of anti-EU British is that they cannot have a wider and more international perspective and they have not realised yet that they are not a powerful or influential economy any more (except for finance). Even finance in the City is likely to suffer without EU connection. Let's see what will happen after Britain withdraws from the EU. In a sense, other EU member countries may feel glad that Britain has left, as they would not have an annoying member who has never belonged to Europe in a deep manner.


Today's papers are full of joy that an independent Scotland would have to renegoatiate its EU membership.The Right wing press barons hold this up against Alex Salmond yet on the same pages whip up anti EU fervour in England.They really can't have it both ways.
Cameron is running scared of the press barons more than his own backbenchers.The press give great coverage to any sceptic pronouncement but shoot down in flames any pro European (Ken Clarke for example).
It's time for the leaders of industry who know just how disastrous a UK exit would be to douse Cameron with a reality spray.


I love the guy who is posting Daily Telegraph articles in support of his claims. Im not even British but i know the newspaper is almost tabloid quality.
Additionally, what will you do outside? The bigger players (one of whom you so desperately avoid being part of) will just squander any interests you might have.
Have no delusions, most of the developing world hates you for subduing them at some point. I post on a forum where i regularly see Indians cheering of Jaguar Land Rover aquisition, post threads how Indian's and Russians are the ruler class of Britain, demand the return of koh-i-noor, holding grudges along the line of "they robbed us for 200 years".....If requested i can post some "gems" from the site...
Good luck on your own (US is slowly turning their attention away from you), im glad the rest of Europe is finally realizing that as fragmented we will accomplish nothing and just be overtaken by the world we have pumped billions into in the name of globalization.
I welcome the creation of a regulatory body that would oversee the larger banks in an effort that the crisis does not drag on indefinitely/preventing another one.


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