ACF Officers and MOD 90

Discussion in 'ACF' started by Birddog, May 4, 2006.

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  1. Birddog

    Birddog Old-Salt

    Dear Fellow ACF Adults (all 20) of you,

    Just a quick one, I am not really that bothered but keeping hearing several different versions and so thought I had better ask the "Arrse of Knowledge"

    I have heard from Rumour Control that as ACF Officers hold type B Commissions they should be issued with a MOD 90.

    Some clever chap is even quoting Mat Regs act 5 scene 2 page 58 where it is supposed to state all ACF Officers should have MOD 90s.

    I have also been told that some JSP somewhere also states that for the transport of weapons and ammunition ACF Officers must be in posesion of an ID Card (I did point out this does not actually say MOD 90) so I assume our Cadet Force one whould suffice.

    Still everyone keeps telling me we are supposed to have them yet no one seems able to suggest how I actually get one or if indeed anyone does have one.

    I expect that everyone will have one up at County HQ and those at Detachment Level will not see them any time soon.

    Just in case any Regular Army or TA are reading this, I know we are not "Proper Officers" and have not been to Sandhurst and so do not deserve a MOD 90 also you are probably thinking we just want to show them to our mates in pubs or worse still we might loose them. However as with all things in the ACF most people do not know what they are or are not entitled to have so I asked the question.


  2. Firstly Those with Group B Commissions (ie those Gen List officers attached to UOTCs who attend RMAS or those commissioned for service within the ACF who do not attend RMAS) are not generally entitled to Mod 90s as it is not considered that they require it for everyday use, they can however be issued with them if there is a specific need like an overseas exercise. Many units with Group B officers apply for Mod 90s and then hold them untill it is deemed that they are required.

    I am amused by the frequency with which this particular subject is raised by ACF adults. An ID card says who you are, and what your'e doing, so my Mod 90 says my name amongst other things, and then 'British Army' across the top. Yours I should imagine says your name and then 'Cadets' on it. If you are not embarrassed about what you do, why would you want a Mod 90, it would defeat the purpose of an ID card if yours said your name and anything other than 'Cadets' on it.
  3. happy_as_a_hat

    happy_as_a_hat War Hero

    Damn! You dodged my not very original banter before I could dish it out! Bast*rd!
  4. rach-ni

    rach-ni Clanker

    Do they not get a TA ID card?
  5. Sangreal

    Sangreal LE

    I'm curious as to why you think TA officers should be considered "proper officers"?
  6. I'm curious as to why you think they shouldn't?
  7. happy_as_a_hat

    happy_as_a_hat War Hero

    I was about to post a reply similar to this but then I thought better...the TA do quite a sterling job in my opinion and do not deserve such comments.

    This is not a bite or a post from a TA type but merely an encouragement of discussion.
  8. Because they can be mobilised perhaps?
  9. Sangreal

    Sangreal LE

    1. Selection standards are well below that required of Reg to attend RMAS
    2. 3 week RMAS.
    3. Limited STA trg.
    4. Very limited command responsibilities.
    5. ROCC(V) is vastly reduced thus leading to a considerable knowledge gap.
    6. eh, how about the fact that TA officers are part-time.

    The above will produce an officer of limited capability (much like the ACF officer's training produces an officer of less capability in relation to a TA officer) and thus not a 'proper officer'.
  10. abeaumont

    abeaumont War Hero

    Fair comment SPS. I've no idea what the "right & proper" form of ID would be to keep everyone happy, but as a CCF "officer" I got issued with an AF E7578, a unit issued piece of card which I had to stick a photograph on. That date expired just before Christmas and was duly replaced in accordance with newly issued instructions. Forms duly completed and sent off, and a few days later a MOD90 arrived with British Army across the top. Sorry if it causes anyone offence, but there it is, that is what is happening now for those of us with TA(B) commissions in the CCF. I've no idea if our colleagues in the ACF are being treated the same or differently.
  11. Country_Bumpkin

    Country_Bumpkin Old-Salt

    Yes, ACF officers, as officers of the TA General List, do get MOD 90. I sit looking at mine as I type. You can get one within a week if you fill in the right form. Need blood grouping. As for the the RMAS course etc, not all TA officers do the TAPC and TACC - some old-fogeys and those with previous qualifications do a sit down board.
  12. Dr_Evil

    Dr_Evil LE

    Sangreal, I couldn't resist: have cut and pasted your comments onto the TA forum in the hope of starting a fight.
  13. 1. Debatable. Yes I agree, there are those who have failed RCB and then passed TCB but I also know those who have failed TCB and then passed RCB. TCB has now been brought into line with RCB including the introduction of a TCB briefing as well as main board. You will also note that in acknowledgment of the newly raised standards there is now an exemption board for those TA officers who wish to attend the regular commissioning course. It seems that the head shed think there might be some kind of equivilancy, but of course I'm sure they'll bow to your superior knowledge Sangreal.

    2. Yes Module 4 of the commissioning process at RMAS is three weeks. However consider for one moment that first term of the regular course teaches an individual how to be a soldier, well a TA OCdt will have probably spent a minimum of a year doing this prior to attendance on any officer training. Also consider that a considerable amount of time at RMAS is spent on fam visits and choice of arm process, whilst a TA officer is already capbadged so this isn't necessary, not to mention the amount of time wasted on drill and other such character building activities. In reality, a TA officer will have spent three weeks on mod 4, two weeks on mod 3, two weeks on mod 2 and then numerous weekend in between (of which they must attend 80% to pass). Add it up and the TA officer scheme amounts to about 10 weeks of condensed officer training, then post commissioning they have to undertake the module 5, 4-5 weekends. This is of course on top of the minimum training which they recieved as a soldier: 5 days TAFS, 14 days CMSR, 5 days Gap training, 14 days trade training = aprox 8 weeks. Also because they are keen beans and eager they will have been attending sqn/coy and regt training aswell. A TA officer won't have to spend time on battlefield tours like his regular counterpart, neither will he be as good at defence writing (this he will learn at module 5) neither will he have been paid to achieve and maintain his fitness, this he did in his free time (unless he was part of 2 UK Ops Bde). A TA officer might not have done all his training back to back in one place, but he jumped through exactly the same hoops as his regular counterpart for less pay and whilst holding down a job/family/mortgage over a more grindingly soul destroying time scale!

    3. Perhaps the STA courses are shorter (although many TA officers now take career breaks to attend the regular STA courses) but a TA officer will not need to have his hand held whilst he is walked through what it exactly is that his soldiers do, the chances are he has already done their job, so he can concentrate much more closely on learning his own.

    4. You evidently do not know what you are talking about. A TA officer will field phone calls throughout the day from everyone from his SNCOs down to his soldiers, not to mention the PSAO, PSI, Admin clerks and various other TA officers and all this whilst he is doing his own full time job. It is also more than likely that he will have to find at least one extra day in each week to sit in his office and trawl through all the jobs that his regular counterpart does in between their frequent tea/fag/toast and time wasting breaks. Like in any job you do as much or as little over the minimum as you choose to.

    5. Time spent on courses does not equate to knowledge, TA courses tend to work longer days, without weekends and with a more intensive ethos, because they know there is less time. TA officers also tend to work considerable amounts in their own time often unpaid: MK1= 100hrs study time apparently, yet a TA officer is only allowed 4MTDs for this. Does 32=100? we think not!

    6. Part time in uniform yes, but he is always on the end of his phone, will often work from home in the evenings when most people relax, socialise or sleep. Many TA officers maintain flexible jobs so that they can put in the necessary extra days at the TAC.

    Sangreal, you obviously have very little experience of TA officers post 2003. Get back in your ignorant little box!
  14. ytomk

    ytomk Old-Salt

    Is it not the case that there is no longer any cleavage (sorry, had to) between RCB and TCB? That is, is the commisions board not a universal one, or did I just think that up?
  15. Sangreal

    Sangreal LE


    The MOD are obviously missing a fukcing trick here!!!

    Why don't we just train all officers the TA way if it so good - this shorter (yet seemingly completely comparable) system is bound to be cheaper :twisted:
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