Tom Usher v. Wayne Besen's "Convoluted Case For Reparative Therapy"

Wayne Besen is a national voice of the Homosexual Movement. His article, "The Convoluted Case For Reparative Therapy," was published on October 3, 2012, here.

The following is my answer:

Wow, Wayne, either your reading comprehension is extremely low or you are deliberately attempting and perhaps succeeding to mislead those with poor comprehension by spinning what is clearly meant by those who drafted the PJI complaint. For those who can't see right through it right from the start, let me spell out a few things.

The term "seeking" there is referring to the Plaintiffs' rather than the patients' or clients' aim. The Plaintiffs reject the notion that when a homosexual comes to them, that they, Plaintiffs, are seeking to change those others when those others haven't even expressed any interest in change but have only revealed their same-sex attraction. Reparative therapists (with the exception of those whose practice is exclusively based upon, specializing in, SOCE — Sexual Orientation Change Efforts) offer help in the form of SOCE but will provide help with other issues regardless of whether the same-sex attracted patients/clients express no interest in SOCE. The Plaintiffs aren't seeking to change patients/clients against the wishes of those patients/clients. It is the only reading an intelligent person can make because the whole context of the suit makes clear that the Plaintiffs engage with patients/clients who want to utilize SOCE. For you to suggest that the attorneys at the Pacific Justice Institute are as dumb and incomprehensible as you are representing them here to be is astounding and speaks to your poor reading skills â€“ lacking much, if any, ability to contextualize.

As to what you call the "second fascinating argument," your reasoning there, if one may even call it that, is worse than with the first. Honestly, I should think a room full of 12-year-olds would be able to comprehend what you don't or at least don't want others to. The law (SB 1172) as it stands and if it is allowed to go into effect, will prevent Dr. Duk from offering SOCE for any SSA minor even where that minor personally wants his or her sexual orientation to change to be in conformity with his or her own religious traditions, cultural norms, and moral standards.

Just to clarify in case you are unable to grasp it, the issue of discrimination there is used in its general sense, not what is typically considered political-only.

You attempt to turn it around to make it appear hypocritical by pointing out that he doesn't, to your knowledge, offer "services to turn heterosexuals into homosexuals." Look, anyone who wishes to go from hetero to homo doesn't need help with that. Your thinking is so poor. If one is thinking "affirming" SSA and aiding the SSA patient/client with becoming comfortable with SSA, then where is the law blocking that? That's the point.

If a particular doctor specializes in otolaryngology, you can't fault him if he won't do the brain surgery you want. Is there some reason it would be evil discrimination for the otolaryngologist to advise the one seeking brain surgery to consult a neurosurgeon? What if the patient were then to request the neurosurgeon to do rolfing on the patient? What if the neurosurgeon were actually knowledgeable enough and capable enough to do that but doesn't agree with rolfing, should we call the neurosurgeon wrong for discriminating? Hardly. Is that too complex?

As for your accusation of quackery, you have zero proof, you can refer to zero research or studies that prove that Reparative Therapy (RT) as advocated by NARTH (National Association for Research & Therapy of Homosexuality) does not work. No such research or studies have been conducted proving RT to be quackery. NARTH is ready and willing to engage with the associations (to which other homosexual ideologues and you refer as the sole authorities on the subject) in conducting the necessary research to definitively determine once and for all whether current SOCE as supported by NARTH works.

Then you actually go on to what in effect is a total denunciation of any use of drugs in medicine. That is the logical conclusion of your complaint against the doctor using drugs in some cases. For those who are unaware, psychologists do not write prescriptions for drugs, medical doctors do. Psychiatrists are legally allowed to prescribe drugs for all sorts of mental states. I personally believe that such drugs are way over prescribed, but that's an entirely different issue than the one Wayne Bensen is attempting to raise. If Wayne is anti-drugs in all cases, then let him say so. Let him make the case for no drugs, period.

If anyone is oversexed for whatever reason and a doctor prescribes libido-reducing drugs, is that quackery or unethical? Hardly. It may not be the way I would go about dealing with the issue of hyper-sexual addictions, but I'm certainly not going to call it quackery or even necessarily unethical. The fact is that such drugs do lower the sex drive and that some people suffer from sexual manias where they are, for example, compulsively masturbating and to the point where it radically interferes with their ability to function on a normal level and where marriages and families and other relationships are severely damaged or even completely ruined. Such problems can ruin schooling and careers. It can end up in extreme anxiety and depression and finally suicide. It is not wrong for a psychiatrist to do his or her best to help such people, and hyper-sexual addiction can definitely come in conjunction with SSA.

In addition, the use of such drugs in some cases in no way indicates the impotency of SOCE in other drug-free cases. To suggest that it does shows inherently dysfunctional thinking on the part of those suggesting it.

Wayne, you wrote, "I fully hope that lawyers vigorously cross-examine Dr. Duk over his possible abuse and unethical use of pharmaceuticals to lower the sex drives of his clients." The Pacific Justice Institute lawyers are not morons. They will more than handle any attempt to paint the use of libido-reducing drugs as inherently unethical. It would be an easy matter to get drug experts and ethicists to testify on the doctor's behalf.

On to your next claim, is looking at pornography an illness? When does looking at pornography become an illness if at all? Is masturbation an illness? When does masturbation become an illness/addiction if at all? Is the State of California going to outlaw mental healthcare practitioners in CA from offering treatment for porn viewing and/or masturbation for all minors and regardless of the minors wishes including for minors who have their parents' full support in seeking treatment, professional help, in stopping pornography viewing and/or masturbation? It is perfectly analogous to the ban on Reparative Therapy, which by the way, in many practices and those by psychologists, is drug-free. The law makes no such drug distinction. It throws out RT for minors no matter what.

As for Wayne's "LGBT youth were made to feel guilty and ashamed" theory, maybe a boy who was repeatedly homosexually sexually abused and had no SSA prior to it but then found himself unable to avoid being erotically stimulated by same-sex imagery and such because the sexual nerve-endings of his body had been repeatedly stimulated even to the point of ejaculation against his will and desire or conscience, tracing and retracing and deepening and widen and ingraining the neuronal pathways resulting in brain-chemical addiction of SSA, realizes that his situation was diabolically forced or foisted or both upon him and that he has a natural human right to seek help to overcome SSA, to diminish his drive for the SSA dopamine-fix that the perpetrator caused, got started, every bit as much as heroin pushers cause heroin addiction or a baby is born addicted to crack cocaine through no fault of the baby.

Such children are "easy prey for avaricious charlatans who offer to "help" but provide nothing but harm"? You don't care about those children, obviously. You know they exist, but you are interested in distorting society so you may continue on without a care for those kids, leaving them suffering year after year after year; and you have the nerve to point to those who will help those children overcome their unwanted same-sex attraction as unethical quacks and charlatans.

You say that "all medical and mental health associations say that homosexuality is not a mental illness." Well, have you surveyed every medical and mental health association in the world on that? No. Have you taken a vote of every mental healthcare provider to see the percentage that believes sexuality is not fluid? No. Is it possible that men performing anal intercourse on each other is symptomatic of mental illness? Definitely. It's prima fascia.

Taking a show of hands at some committee or board meeting ruling that men sodomizing each other is not sick doesn't fool everyone. It doesn't fool me and never will.

Sodomy is an error. Putting your penis up another male's rectum is sick, Wayne. Willingly allowing another male to put his penis up your rectum is also sick, Wayne. Neither the American Psychological Association (APA) nor American Psychiatric Association (APA) has a magic wand that can alter those facts no matter how much you wish for them to. The official positions of those associations on homosexuality are wrong. It's self-evident. Homosexuality is inherently wrong. It is never right. Sodomy is a sign of brokenness (including for heterosexuals). For it to occur, there has to be disease, which can include even temporary bad intoxication/impaired judgment. That's just how it is. The whole person, the healthy person, the unbroken person, never engages in sodomy. Sodomy is unwholesome.

If you are engaging in it, you should seek the help of an authentic, skilled Reparative Therapist and want it desperately and be completely prepared to go all the way through with it and not backslide but rather persevere unto healing your emotional wounds that you have been trying for years now to mask.

Your wounds are not healed, Wayne, by being affirmed in your disease by a bunch of also wounded associations. They will fester forever until you turn and overcome.

As for only causing harm as you claim, how do you explain the thousands of people who have benefited from the treatment? You don't. You ignore them. You pretend they don't exist. You do that because if you admit to yourself that others have successfully walked away from the homosexual lifestyle and reconditioned their emotional patterns such that SSA is greatly diminished and in some cases gone, that you will see yourself as a relative failure. Well, they exist, and many are coming out on VoicesOfChange.

(Also, this case will be the beginning of the end to the censorship by your friends in media about those people, a number of whom I have the pleasure of knowing via direct communications.)

You were not born homosexual. Events in your life turned you into what you are. You can change that if you want to. Your disease, your deeply ingrained brain-chemical addiction, wants to keep you. If you were addicted to heroin, the same would apply. Shall we outlaw treatment of minors with unwanted heroin addictions? Of course we shouldn't. To say that treatments for heroin don't work, whether with or without other drugs, but are conducted solely by avaricious and unethical quacks would constitute slander, and if put in writing and openly published, libel, for which one would be at risk of facing civil suit for such.

Here's an article you've possibly seen but ignored: "Dopamine, without alcohol, makes flies court males."

Here's one of my own post that sheds more light on the subject: "Vindication continued: "The Neuro Transformers," by Robin Phillips."

Continuing on with your confused article, you further complain that the lawsuit says, "The statute makes no attempt to define 'family rejection.'" You do that by pointing to shelters, as if the lawyers are claiming there is no such thing as family rejection, which they do not claim. Your pointing to shelters still does not define family rejection for the purposes of the law. The law itself needed to define that so that it isn't subject to wild interpretations, such as that a family member remains in the house but is feeling rejection at any level.

It's well established that homosexuals on average are much more sensitive, thin-skinned, worse at judging the emotions and intentions of others. It happens all the time. I am routinely subjected to their distorted realities. When I am cool, calm, and collected, such as right now, I am routinely accused by homosexuals of being angry.

That's because you homosexuals project your hyper-sensitivity and lack of proper coping skills onto others. When you are losing a debate, most of you resort to what can only be termed child-like tantrums, ever-increasing wild accusations and false assumptions, further and further from reality and logic, etc., finally arriving where you think you've won by being the most insulting (at least hoping to be insulting and to illicit hard feelings).

It appears clear to me that it's an ingrained pattern due to the abuse and negligence you homosexuals have experienced that caused your homosexuality in the first place. You get stuck in the double-bind (which is fully explained in Reparative Therapy) and in your hyper-emotionalism, lash out thoughtlessly, dangerously, recklessly. You become more and more fascistic making more and more demands that your disease be unleashed upon the world. You are being devoured and have been taken over as tools for the further devouring of humanity.

With Reparative Therapy, if you will use it religiously, consistently, you will learn to not react the way you do. Rather than rushing to another homosexual act, brain-chemistry fix, for your sensitivity, feeling of having been shamed or "bashed," as you all are fond of calling it, you will retrain yourself, recondition yourself, to cope using your knowledge of the double-loop (also fully explained in RT). It does work. It works with addictions. The more you want it, the better it works. Giving up, doesn't. Wanting instant gratification doesn't. Wanting it to fall in your lap with no work or desire on your part, doesn't. It is not the therapist's fault you quit before you are less sensitive for your selfish self and more understanding of what's truly going on with others.

Back to "rejection," the lawyers know the range of possible claims of rejection and are viewing that aspect in light of many, many possibilities including, but obviously not limited to, that some religious parents will never accept homosexuality regardless of who it is who's engaging in it. This is one way in which SB 1172 is a complete infringement upon Christianity, for one, and some other religions as well.

The canonical New Testament of Christianity contains very clear anti-homosexuality admonitions. The US Constitution has as its First Amendment the right of parents to freely exercise their religion. There are limits, but those limits cannot be based upon Wayne's irrational ideas that, for instance, completely reject homosexual rape and its unwanted-SSA consequences for many and also reject the power of operant conditioning that can, as I've made clear in my posts, completely change orientation.

Some would want to treat that as a hypothesis. I don't need to. It would definitely withstand testing. There is no doubt about it. Right now, it's a forgone conclusion â€“ inescapable short of divine intervention.

You say you "have spoken to a number of scientists about this topic and feel confident that this argument will be obliterated in court." Well, we on the other side, the right side, are looking forward to the opportunity, through this and other suits, to expose all the information SOCE therapists have proving that your so-called scientific consultants and you have it backwards. You see, Wayne, your politically correct homosexual allies in high places in the mainstream media will not be able to censor this one. Are you nervous? Do you feel the ground shifting under your feet yet? It shows.

Finally, you say, "The lawsuit also says that SB1172 "would directly curtail the religious expression of members of the clergy who are also mental health professionals." This is a load of nonsense...." Wow, the twisted frosting on your confused cake that is. Look Wayne, your convoluted efforts are tedious to constantly straighten out, but for the sakes of others and perchance you may yet come to see the light, let me explain yet again a basic fundamental.

A California-license practitioner who is also practicing under the auspices of his or her religion, sanctioned by that religion in his or her use of Reparative Therapy even on parishioners on religious property, will according to SB 1172, no longer be allowed to do that in California. That is a clear and plain violation of the involved religion(s) that hold that homosexuality is wrong, a sin, and against that religion.

For you to claim that Scriptures don't say that is ridiculous. The New Testament epistles clearly prohibit homosexuality in all cases. I can tell you necrophilia is also prohibited even though you won't find the issue of men having sexual intercourse with dead bodies specifically listed by Jesus Christ in the Gospels or elsewhere in the New Testament. If you are one of those people who claims Jesus never said necrophilia (by that name) isn't acceptable therefore it is acceptable, I hope the lawyers for your side in the case call you to the stand as one of their experts on religion.

See also:

My reply to: "Exodus International is Right on Gay Reparative Therapy

AversionÂ Treatments Are Not Authentic Reparative Therapy

Jesus called all homosexuals sinners. He called all homosexual behavior a sin.

The Good Samaritan Tells You Homosex is Sin

Homosexualization Of the Gullible

Christian Commons

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  • Tom Usher

    About Tom Usher

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    • http://www.realliberalchristianchurch.org Tom Usher

      My response to: www.huffingtonpost.com/social/Kofender/the-convoluted-legal-case-for-reparative-therapy_b_1934337_193755003.html

      One of your problems is simple. You're in denial about the existence of others who have changed and that many of them did it with the help of Reparative Therapy. The days of covering that up are quickly coming to an end. Your false-propaganda friends in the mainstream media aren't going to be able to censor what is revealed in the upcoming law suits.

      By the way, if you knew something at 3 (this alleged 3-year-old's vagueness is part of your scientific proof against SOCE and RT?), what do you think went on between day-1 and then. There's no question mark because it's rhetorical. Do you remember being 2, 2 1/2? I doubt it. I suspect you may be suppressing memories from 3 and onward. Since you're in denial about those who have changed, it would surprised me were you not in denial about the causes of your own homosexuality.

      So, are you afraid of the APA's conducting research with NARTH on the subject of Reparative Therapy? If so, why? Let me head you off if you're attempted to say something exceedingly stupid such as that it's not needed. Don't forget, your side continually claims there's no evidence it works (and that in the face of those who have changed and give RT the credit).

      • http://www.realliberalchristianchurch.org Tom Usher

        My reply comment on The Huffington Post informing the user there with the handle or name "Kofender" to look here for my answer to him was disallowed by The Huffington Post.

        I can't see where it could possibly have violated any rule, but I've long since given up trying to figure out how they think they are helping themselves via such tactics.

        Word gets around which sites censor without just cause.

    • http://www.realliberalchristianchurch.org Tom Usher

      My response to: www.huffingtonpost.com/social/mikercol/the-convoluted-legal-case-for-reparative-therapy_b_1934337_193781091.html

      The premise is false that libido-reducing drugs on a hyper-sexualized minor (exact causes perhaps not yet then even determined and with the child suffering and confused, etc., unable to stop masturbating or engaging in whatever sexual activity is disrupting the child's ability to function normally) is far from reasonable grounds for a claim of malpractice. The fact that you don't know it clearly states that you shouldn't be making pronouncements but rather learning -- probably more at relearning.

      • http://www.realliberalchristianchurch.org Tom Usher

        If drugs are not acceptable under such circumstances, then what circumstances make prescription drugs administered by licensed psychiatrists ever acceptable: headaches? That's the point in logic. It's a shame that it's over people's heads.Perhaps for some, reducing hyper-sexualization and homosexualization will help eliminate the underlying cause of their headaches. I'm sure of it.

        I'm not advocating Big Pharma drugs as some first approach, far from it. I'm simply pointing out the gross inconsistencies in Wayne Besen's thinking and his lack of vision concerning libido's in artificially caused overdrive, including in minors.Wayne is perhaps one of those homosexual-bathhouse-orgy types. Misery does often love company, and those bathhouse frequenters sure seem to.

        Meanwhile, both APA's will say those frequenters are just fine in that aspect of their lives, if one may rightly call that life.

        It's not life in my Book but death -- death of the truth that homosex is sick. It's obvious.

        Will humanity stand by, duped, allowing it to reach epidemic proportions?

        Fortunately, NARTH and others will shed light in the courts. That light will get out and filter down to even the youngest who will come to learn that it is and always has been a lie that people can't change.

    • http://www.realliberalchristianchurch.org Tom Usher

      My reply to: www.huffingtonpost.com/social/NetAmigo/the-convoluted-legal-case-for-reparative-therapy_b_1934337_193787450.html

      What you have cited is Old Testament legalism. That legalism also included stoning the adulteress whom Jesus forgave.

      Are you interested in learning about Christianity? It would save your soul were you to learn, turn, repent, and not go back to wickedness.

      Reparative Therapy isn't inconsistent with Christ. It can help you discover the sources of your open wounds and how properly to cope. It seems it's being offered to you. Are you going to turn your back? Turning your back is the broad way of failure.

      • http://www.realliberalchristianchurch.org Tom Usher

        October 7, 2012 at 7:58am

        "Strange how when you are called on your irrational Biblical support that you start repudiating parts of the Bible that you don't like."

        NetAmigo wouldn't have dropped the stone but would have rather been the first to throw one at her then turn to Jesus and say, "Strange how when you are called on your irrational Biblical support that you start repudiating parts of the Bible that you don't like."

        Is it any wonder why NetAmigo thinks the APA's are correct that males sodomizing each other is healthy and not symptomatic? So, after Jesus had forgiven her and told her to go and to sin no more, she started to walk away but stopped, turned, and asked Jesus, "May I still eat shellfish?" Jesus asked, "Are you an unrepentant homosexual?" She answered, "Yes." He said, "Well, that's different. Everybody, stone her." Then he said, "Just kidding." She reply, "I don't get it." He answered, "Yes, we know." Then she asked, "But who is my neighbor?" To which Jesus said, "Yes, we also know you're a lawyer."


        Strange? Hardly.

    • http://www.realliberalchristianchurch.org Tom Usher

      "It's also illlegal to sacrifice virgins, even if your religious faith really, really says you should. Were you under the impression that the First Amendment gave you free license to do anything you like to anybody at all, as long as you claim you're practicing your religion?"

      The above is from here: www.huffingtonpost.com/social/hanohanonacowboy/the-convoluted-legal-case-for-reparative-therapy_b_1934337_193813814.html

      A teenage boy who was not same-sex attracted who was molested by a homosexual which boy then wants Reparative Therapy to overcome consequential same-sex attraction, is not analogous to a virgin being sacrificed? To attempt to draw an analogy there is weak-minded. I even debate whether or not to respond to such ridiculous comments. It's on a par with Wayne Besen's weak-minded drivel.

      It's clear that the teenage boy in this case is the one who is being sacrificed on the alter of homosexuality so a bunch of hyper-sensitive, hyper-active, attention deficient men and other boys can esteem themselves when they bugger one another and call it anatomically, physiologically, and psychologically correct, healthy, etc., rather than pathological and harmful, diseased and disease promoting, which it clearly is and always shall be no matter how contrived they attempt to become.

      Homosexuality is a fraud.

      The fact is that the homosexual movement never intends to draw a line for freedom of religious exercise, unless that religion worships homosexual depravity devouring the souls of the young.

      Did you know?

      "We shall sodomize your sons, emblems of your feeble masculinity, of your shallow dreams and vulgar lies. We shall seduce them in your schools...." â€” Michael Swift, homosexual activist

    • http://www.realliberalchristianchurch.org Tom Usher

      The more you write, the deeper you dig your hole.

      When I mentioned memories from 2 or 2 1/2, why in the world would you conclude that that necessarily meant no memories what so ever, no matter how vague and short, as opposed to sufficient memory to be able to rule out that you had been molested for instance?

      I never heard of anyone who remembers his or her 2nd year well enough to rule out sexual molestation. You certainly cannot say that you are an exception. If you even try to, you're an even bigger fool than I thought.

      In addition, you may include yourself amongst the other morons attempting in vain to employ the weak psychological tactic of insinuating that I must have engaged in homosex for me to know that males commit sodomy on each other and what sodomy even is. How dumb does it get on your side of the issue of homosexuality as mental illness? Does it actually get dumber than what you just said? Sadly but inevitably, it does.

      How many so-called exclusive, born that way, homosexual males actually know about and have written about the mechanics of heterosexual sex? By your illogical, depraved thinking, they must have engaged in it. Let me inform you of something, I actually knew that in hetero sex, the man puts his penis into the woman's vagina. How did I know that before I did it? Don't you feel the least bit stupid or ashamed? Are you really that far over into the dark side?

      No wonder you aren't interested in Jesus.

      As for your last flat-out couple of lies, and I call them lies because I'm positive you know better, I already said in essence that you are simply wishing people away who just aren't complying and aren't going to.

      For other people who aren't basically dishonest, they can go to a brand new site to listen to real people who are both on the road to recovery from homosex and others who are fully recovered. There's actually a list of videos waiting to be uploaded. www.realliberalchristianchurch.org/2012/10/09/homosexuality-is-not-immutable-press-release-voices-of-change.html

      Also, the current law suits against SB 1172 will be very revealing.

      Well, you've had your say here. I didn't censor you, even though you stated untrue and contemptible things about me, as if the real truth isn't bad enough. I'm not claiming to be perfect, but you're a jerk, really. You aren't even trying to be honest.

      Even if I had engaged in homosex, it wouldn't alter the fact that people change from hetero to homo and back again (once they wake up). Too bad you're so dead set on staying asleep.

      It's fortunate for you if you take advantage of it that Jesus said you can blaspheme him and be forgiven if you repent. I wouldn't wait too long were I you. We've seen your type drop like flies.

      A good place for you to start to repent concerns those homosexually molested boys in California who need counseling to let them know that they don't have to be stuck with unwanted same-sex attraction.

      My latest post is right on about it too: "Homosexuality and Child Sexual Abuse": www.realliberalchristianchurch.org/2012/10/09/homosexuality-and-child-sexual-abuse.html

      Stop being so stinking selfish.