(;GM[1]FF[4]CA[UTF-8]AP[CGoban:3]ST[2] RU[AGA]SZ[19]KM[7.50]TM[7200]OT[5x30 byo-yomi] GN[US Open Round 5 - 2008 US Go Congress - Myungwan Kim (8P) vs Kuo Yin (3P)]PW[Myungwan Kim 8P]PB[Kuo Yin 3P]DT[2008-08-08]EV[US Open]RO[5]PC[The KGS Go Server at http://www.gokgs.com/]US[Todd Heidenreich]C[Rocker [4d\]: muhahaah Rocker [4d\]: start! PowerP [3d\]: how many processors is kuo yin using? Ho [5k\]: Did Kuo lose anything? jewel [1k\]: huo yin is 3 processors Almdudler [3d\]: w00t Almdudler [3d\]: duel of giants \\o ]RE[W+Resign] ;B[cp] ;W[pp] ;B[dc] ;W[de]C[pebarefoot [12k\]: this should be excellent ibd [15k\]: whom is kuo sponsored by? nyanjohn: LG nyanjohn: Life's Good myspersson [8k\]: need to get sponsors ] ;B[nq]C[myspersson [8k\]: anyone got a tip ? sansanman: hi pebarefoot [12k\]: Life IS Good ! lifeisgood [-\]: yes, life's good KGSPlus [-\]: please keep comments related to the game pookifuni [15k\]: right USGO1 [-\]: The top boards are being broadcast live by the American Go E-Journal; go news from around the world, free every week via email; sign up at www.usgo.org. Time limits are 2 hours basic time, 5 periods of 30 seconds byo yomi. Our broadcasting team today: Game Recorders: Todd Heidenreich (Board 1); Dennis Wheeler (Bd 2); Richard Dolen (Bd 3); Casey Alexander (Bd 4); Matthew Heymering (KGS admin); Steve Colburn (IT/back-up); Chris Garlock, Managing Editor USGO1 [-\]: Click here http://www.usgo.org/congress/2008/pairs-r5.html for the Round 2 pairings and here http://www.usgo.org/naim/band-matrix/42 for the results -- and game records – from the top boards. Photos of the top players in the Open and NAIM are also posted online http://www.usgo.org/congress/2008/openplayers.html Click here http://www.usgo.org/congress/2008/staff.html to see the E-Journal Congress Team USGO1 [-\]: The top boards are being broadcast live by the American Go E-Journal; go news from around the world, free every week via email; sign up at www.usgo.org ] ;W[pn]C[jeffywhite [7k\]: this isnt a live brodcast is it? Akagi316 [7k\]: it is mpan [8k\]: actually I think it is pebarefoot [12k\]: yes jeffywhite [7k\]: cool jeffywhite [7k\]: so why does the time not go down Cloudwall [-\]: USGO1 [-\]: The top boards are being broadcast live by the American Go E-Journal Akagi316 [7k\]: because it's not played online Akagi316 [7k\]: it's played irl IstTengen [9k\]: at table 5 they are on move 34 :O Akagi316 [7k\]: just broadcasted online jeffywhite [7k\]: ah jeffywhite [7k\]: okay Pinus [7k?\]: I bet on E3 now. ] ;B[pd]C[nyanjohn: j3 pebarefoot [12k\]: there has been an aga e-journal up-date every day during the congress Momogo [2d\]: :O ] ;W[ep]C[TheCATS [2d\]: is feng yun not playing today? pebarefoot [12k\]: nice job e-journal ! Cloudwall [-\]: Feng Yun is not playing in the US Open, she's playing in the Ing Masters Tournament though Cloudwall [-\]: they're different USGO1 [-\]: Feng Yun will be playing Yilun Yang tonight at 7pm PST to determine the champion of the North American Ing Masters tournament. nyanjohn: amazing Singer [10k\]: what rank is yilun yang? Cloudwall [-\]: 7p USGO1 [-\]: Yes, I should have said Feng Yun 9P will be playing Yilun Yang 7P. Singer [10k\]: Does KGS ever broadcast tournaments with the very top pros in? nyanjohn: g3 IstTengen [9k\]: I dont think so Singer. They should have to pay for that i guess? fly [1k\]: Singer: how much better than 9p do tye get? ] ;B[gq]C[pebarefoot [12k\]: kgs sometimes puts the games up pebarefoot [12k\]: the deciding games at least Javaness [-\]: is there a scoretable online? lifeisgood [-\]: are these players leading in the us open? Ho [5k\]: what's an adress to see this game online? nkinnear [?\]: yes to both. check usgo.org Cloudwall [-\]: Java--USGO1 [-\]: Click here http://www.usgo.org/congress/2008/pairs-r5.html for the Round 2 pairings and here http://www.usgo.org/naim/band-matrix/42 for the results -- and game records – from the top boards. Photos of the top players in the Open and NAIM are also posted online http://www.usgo.org/congress/2008/openplayers.html Click here http://www.usgo.org/congress/2008/staff.html to see the E-Journal Congress Team Ho [5k\]: thx USGO1 [-\]: Yin has left the table for the first time this morning. nyanjohn: heh nyanjohn: i was right nyanjohn: now f5 Tom2 [8k\]: is there any live broadcast from this event like eurogotv? USGO1 [-\]: It is getting late in the week here in Portland, and there are a lot of tired looking people in the room this morning. ] ;W[er]C[pebarefoot [12k\]: there has been no video feed thus far , Tom2 katori15 [4k\]: blah this joseki Tom2 [8k\]: thank you pebarefoot slinky [-\]: go the 3p! USGO1 [-\]: Before long, there will be photos up at http://www.usgo.org/ slinky [-\]: USGO what are the times? jcnorn [?\]: how come he put his stone at e2? larrymarx [6k\]: is white looking at k3 or l3 perhaps? acidpool [3k\]: attack mode slinky [-\]: Cause he is an 8p and its in the master plan Pinus [7k?\]: E2 is fightind move. jcnorn [?\]: ooooh Tom2 [8k\]: oh, thank you USGO! and its great that you show us the event on KGS ixibutzi [1k\]: when im playing e2 in joseki it always turns out bad guess this is a pro move xD jcnorn [?\]: I has much to learn Pinus [7k?\]: Now D6 is the only move? Faint31k [1k\]: starting with spelling >> nyanjohn: who are the 2 most high ranked in this tournament? Yanwangye [-\]: why i cant watch this game on eurogotv ? slinky [-\]: pfffft where else would you show this event IGS?? XD get out of here theremin [1k\]: where is the end of the Kim's game started on wednesday ? slinky [-\]: cause its not on EURO its in USGO!!! theremin [1k\]: someone knows ? slinky [-\]: :D Yanwangye [-\]: xD USGO1 [-\]: The time periods for the US Open are 2 hours basic time with 5 byo-yomi periods of 30 seconds. larrymarx [6k\]: i think black can still escape or live if tenuki and then white d6 slinky [-\]: o_O Yanwangye [-\]: omg ok im stupit ~_~ nyanjohn: d6 nyanjohn: d6 f5 k4 ? jcnorn [?\]: why d6? wellwell: ???? theremin [1k\]: who won between Kim and Yue Zhang ? I can't find the end of their game ... pebarefoot [12k\]: see options>rules , above USGO1 [-\]: Both players have just begun this game so are only several minutes into the game. When I have a chance to see Black's clock I'll let you now exactly. nkinnear [?\]: Kim won MrShintou [-\]: they have plenty of time ] ;B[cm]C[theremin [1k\]: thx nkinnear :) You know if their end game were recorded ? pebarefoot [12k\]: ahh , Mr Shintou *bows* nkinnear [?\]: check usgo.org for game record larrymarx [6k\]: "if one, jump two; if two, jump three" theremin [1k\]: was* GoteGote [1d\]: black lead of one stone... But white will catch him in a few time... Bloch [10k\]: Black is playing like a massively parallel architecture. myspersson [8k\]: wot ixibutzi [1k\]: isnt c7 slow? slinky [-\]: not when your a pro AutoAtari [3k?\]: isn't c7 fast? slinky [-\]: xD USGO1 [-\]: All results from the main tournaments here at the US Go Congress can be seen at http://www.usgo.org/congress/2008/ larrymarx [6k\]: i think c7 is fine because it attacks e2 and e4 AutoAtari [3k?\]: d6 seems to be more common katori15 [4k\]: kogo joseki dictionary is looking for this ☺ acidpool [3k\]: d6 aggressive, not appropriate with weak stones on right nyanjohn: maybe c7 was chosen because d15 theremin [1k\]: Thx USGO1 but is there somewhere I can find the full game between Kim and Yue ? :'( gindan [6k\]: i think it's bacasue of q6 instead of d15 ] ;W[iq]C[oibbi [1d\]: kogo know this exists but doesn't know the vatiation :/ MrShintou [-\]: this looked like best to me as well AutoAtari [3k?\]: koko says "If you are high-dan and know the follow-up. mail it to me please." lol mascaron [5k\]: kogo's dictionary say's of c7, if you're a high dan and know the follow up please email it to me mascaron [5k\]: lol AutoAtari [3k?\]: kogo even nyanjohn: yeah nyanjohn: because kogo just sucks nyanjohn: written by kyus maybe calbonga [10k?\]: W c17 Grindy [16k\]: ? purplecow [1d\]: theremin is this it http://www.usgo.org/naim/results/122-182-212 AutoAtari [3k?\]: we should send them the sgf of this game ] ;B[pr]C[gonewb [7k\]: m3 GoteGote [1d\]: m3? looks in the strategy... GoteGote [1d\]: or n3 nyanjohn: p3 oibbi [1d\]: black wants l3 nyanjohn: m3 nyanjohn: m3 works with d15 mitani7: w g4 Confuse24 [3k\]: its like watching a pro game gonewb [7k\]: cuz it is? Confuse24 [3k\]: where is kim from gindan [6k\]: h4 bigger than l3 MrShintou [-\]: Kim... mitani7: g4 Confuse24 [3k\]: myungwan nyanjohn: myungwan if from France nyanjohn: is Confuse24 [3k\]: shes a pro right from where MrShintou [-\]: r10 maybe Confuse24 [3k\]: r10 might be the best mive in this position AutoAtari [3k?\]: I prefer m3 jeffywhite [7k\]: i think g4 is big for white gindan [6k\]: france ? GoteGote [1d\]: l3 looks big for black Nouli [-\]: korea jeffywhite [7k\]: but its gote nyanjohn: m3 ftw AutoAtari [3k?\]: Confuse24, you could have asked google DragonWolf [5k\]: Could white M3 now? pebarefoot [12k\]: this should be one heck of a fight ! huginmunin [10k\]: n4? gindan [6k\]: i think all of the round5 players are from cjk ? Snaga [1d\]: how old is w? gonewb [7k\]: whats cjk SunnyD [3d\]: 1 hour older since start of game DragonWolf [5k\]: cjk = china japan korea ] ;W[mq]C[gonewb [7k\]: oh AutoAtari [3k?\]: wow pebarefoot [12k\]: patience , grasshopper mitani7: o5 AutoAtari [3k?\]: nah, n4 Tsuijin [1d\]: n2? jeffywhite [7k\]: nah mitani7: n2 or o5 Grindy [16k\]: or sides Tsuijin [1d\]: n4 seems to give white good result.. jeffywhite [7k\]: n2 bad cus white has the ladder Tsuijin [1d\]: and o5 looks unplayable GoteGote [1d\]: hehe n3 USGO1 [-\]: MyungWan Kim is a 8P from Seoul, South Korea born February 2, 1978. He is currently residing in Los Angeles, CA. He earned professional rank in 1994 and placed 2nd in the 12 BC Card Cup. ikami [1d\]: W doesnt havee the ladder jeffywhite [7k\]: oh jeffywhite [7k\]: my fault SunnyD [3d\]: What is he doing in LA? GoteGote [1d\]: Where is the ladder ikami? MatchFree [-\]: card cup? is that a poker tournament? ikami [1d\]: n2 o2 n4 m3 m2 p3 o4 p2 l3 mitani7: l3 Brendan5 [4k\]: what about m3 Brendan5 [4k\]: i like that ] ;B[mp] ;W[lq]C[AutoAtari [3k?\]: told ya ] ;B[qq]C[Tsuijin [1d\]: i guess black losing then MrShintou [-\]: i like black =D AutoAtari [3k?\]: I don't think he had any better choice ] ;W[nr]C[nyanjohn: p3 ] ;B[oq]C[MrShintou [-\]: s5 nyanjohn: camon ] ;W[qp]C[Nouli [-\]: S5 is gote ] ;B[or]C[AutoAtari [3k?\]: q2 was strange, I think mitani7: p2 is good ] ;W[qk]C[GoteGote [1d\]: p2 looks slow GoteGote [1d\]: and empty triangle. royalty [3d\]: it's joseki, kinda mitani7: i don't think Confuse24 [3k\]: its supposedly joseki MrShintou [-\]: kgs 1d disagrees with a 3p interesting =D GoteGote [1d\]: it's joseki? ok then just look ^^ Tsuijin [1d\]: white opening looks more interesting Confuse24 [3k\]: well in ths situation its bad fro black GoteGote [1d\]: s2 don't work instead of p2? USGO1 [-\]: Yin Kuo 3P, born on February 5, 1983, is from Beijing, China. He earned professional in 1997 and professional 3 dan in 2001. He won the 2006 Champion of Ying’s Cup of Chinese National Championship for University Students and he earned Bachelor of Laws from Fudan University in China in 2008. GoteGote [1d\]: s2 or s3 huginmunin [10k\]: b 13? mitani7: b + 0.5 huginmunin [10k\]: c 13 i mean GoteGote [1d\]: p2 is the way to have life for sure? MrShintou [-\]: black p2 gives black sente. MrShintou [-\]: /end mitani7: r12 kimball [4d\]: p2 is shapemove, b cannot resist s 3 without AutoAtari [3k?\]: pro at 14? and law degree? AutoAtari [3k?\]: b is scary :p MrShintou [-\]: he earned his bach in law in 2008. GoteGote [1d\]: but if black s3? Snaga [1d\]: thats why he i only 3p SunnyD [3d\]: 1P is free pass to get into top universities ] ;B[ce]C[fly [1k\]: Does anyone know which USGOx broadcast the pro vs computer game? jankenpopp: none jankenpopp: they played on their own accounts jankenpopp: mogotitan was the computer fly [1k\]: ty jankenpopp: myungwan was the pro USGO1 [-\]: Yin has stepped away from the board again. GoteGote [1d\]: kimball: black s3 instead of s2 is bad becuase white can put black into run?` jankenpopp: although there was a usgo representative there too.. giving breif commentary GoteGote [1d\]: instead of p2* AutoAtari [3k?\]: what was the result? Aliens243 [9k?\]: computer win MrShintou [-\]: 9HC though ] ;W[cf]C[AutoAtari [3k?\]: aha, still impressive AutoAtari [3k?\]: 7 or 8 handi next time? :) MrShintou [-\]: it won by 3.5 and 1.5, so probably not ] ;B[cd]C[yukimora [1d\]: never seen pro handicap game before USGO1 [-\]: They played several games. The early games were very fast time limits to test different handicaps. With limited time the computer lost with something like 13 and 15 stones of handicap. With an hours time to process, the computer won by 1.5 points with 9 handicap. Still impressive. patrickb [-\]: The pro said afterwards that winning at H8 against the computer would have been challenging patrickb [-\]: and said it was two dan or maybe three dan in its play overall SunnyD [3d\]: We need to get Takemiya to play too Snaga [1d\]: :/ purplecow [1d\]: kgs 2 d ? MrShintou [4d\]: 2-3d pfft. Uhr [?\]: sorry i am new Nouli [-\]: Mogobot win a fast game with 12 stones Nouli [-\]: xD Uhr [?\]: who is the bot? Nouli [-\]: -win +won ] ;W[df]C[patrickb [-\]: MoGo Titan. The MoGo program running on a 15 teraflop 800 core cluster computer Uhr [?\]: wow yukimora [1d\]: well from what i have seen from bots in the past it wont be 2d on kgs GoteGote [1d\]: yep but 1.5 win was because computer put some stone in his territory at the end of the game Computer was ahead like 10 before the last move... And the pro make a mistake in the oppening who give him a more difficult challenge. I think 9 stone was the right handicap Tsuijin [1d\]: is C10 best here? Kyros [8k\]: where can I get a sgf of that computer game? Bloch [10k\]: Is this the strongest bot ion the world? I heard there was a Koren computer / software that was very strong. Nouli [-\]: Gotegote : Wasn't it aga rules ? patrickb [-\]: Look under the account of 'mogotitan' for the game record yukimora [1d\]: it might start out that way but after awhile people will figure out its pattern and start giving it 6 handicap patrickb [-\]: yes, it was chinese rules Bloch [10k\]: Kyros, look up the user mogotitan SunnyD [3d\]: Mogo uses no pattern Kyros [8k\]: thanks huginmunin [10k\]: i think m3? GoteGote [1d\]: Kyros: looks at info of usgo15, and search the game between mogo and the pro it's the fouth AutoAtari [3k?\]: oh they played on kgs? patrickb [-\]: where else? :) Bloch [10k\]: yes, last night 21:00 UK time SunnyD [3d\]: UK time??? AutoAtari [3k?\]: I imagined it was on a real board, with an operator placing stones for the computer Bloch [10k\]: well, I am in Ireland. I don't want to figure out the time somewher else .. GoteGote [1d\]: yep, but Mogo play stone IN his territory when the pro takes dame, he just play like that because he know he will win ( for him o.5 win or 10 points win is the same Bloch [10k\]: No I think it was actually played on the computer Bloch [10k\]: Cgopban handled the time limits Bruno5940 [16k\]: wats the time? jankenpopp: right, was played on.. myungwan vs mogotian jankenpopp: titan* Bloch [10k\]: it's 18:10 Bloch [10k\]: somewhere huginmunin [10k\]: m17 ] ;B[ip] ;W[jp] ;B[hq]C[H2He [7k\]: is it a kind of splitting attack, or.. slinky [-\]: So the mogo event just shows that they cant beat us? slinky [-\]: ;) USGO1 [-\]: Yin hesitated over the board, pulled the stone back and then placed it on the board. Double checking his reading? slinky [-\]: :D maybe? Tsuijin [1d\]: early fight ftw slinky [-\]: ;) SunnyD [3d\]: High level mind game bluff. MrShintou [-\]: haha ] ;W[ir]C[Tsuijin [1d\]: does black have easy sabaki? ToWeak [1k\]: what is sabaki? H2He [7k\]: light play Tsuijin [1d\]: cause I don't see one Tsuijin [1d\]: and tenuking seems bad Tsuijin [1d\]: *tenuki Pinus [7k?\]: What about G5? USGO1 [-\]: Other than sometimes moving his head around to stretch his neck, Kim has barely moved the whole game. Just calmly reading the board. oonicks [?\]: e4 is sabaki Tsuijin [1d\]: e4 is a white stone oonicks [?\]: i think its great sabaki huginmunin [10k\]: first f4 Tsuijin [1d\]: f4 seems bad shape oibbi [1d\]: i imagine black playing k5 theremin [1k\]: (thx purplecow) Neospring [3k\]: l3 fractic [2k\]: k5 just feels like an overplay Tsuijin [1d\]: yah i agree with fractic huginmunin [10k\]: ok f2? GoteGote [1d\]: k5 h4 i think ] ;B[dq]C[GoteGote [1d\]: f2 here GoteGote [1d\]: i was just looking at that before elfking [6k\]: hrm GoteGote [1d\]: f2 is possible Jenghis [2k\]: f2 not e3? GoteGote [1d\]: but not nessecary the riht move elfking [6k\]: and what of the maxim that "even an idiot connects at a peep ^^ ... "? ] ;W[eq]C[GoteGote [1d\]: ^^ AurelienC [3d\]: f2 bad elfking [6k\]: ^^ articienta [-\]: :) Nouli [-\]: connect xD Tsuijin [1d\]: d3 sorta fixes the problem Tsuijin [1d\]: for B articienta [-\]: only idiots and pro connect at a peep ] ;B[fo]C[huginmunin [10k\]: i meant f2 instead of d3 elfking [6k\]: he's treating g3 lightly shinkirou [1k\]: w has no problem now GoteGote [1d\]: f2 goal what to threaten connection elfking [6k\]: f5 threat is interesting ... it aims at e6 elfking [6k\]: or e5 shinkirou [1k\]: h1 can connect easy AurelienC [3d\]: f1 and w is connected GoteGote [1d\]: and if e3 f3 f4 g4 capture the two stone fractic [2k\]: but w can't just play f1 now GoteGote [1d\]: lol fractic [2k\]: black e5 would be too good AutoAtari [3k?\]: c5 GoteGote [1d\]: missread AurelienC [3d\]: it happen Neospring [3k\]: b3 shinkirou [1k\]: i like c5 larrymarx [6k\]: can black kill e3? GoteGote [1d\]: ^^ yes i feel so stupid here... But was so happy to see that... life is rude... elfking [6k\]: black doesn't want to kill e3 AurelienC [3d\]: ^^ ] ;W[io] ;B[hp]C[AutoAtari [3k?\]: I don't think he would refuse to kill it, given the chance elfking [6k\]: that's some deep reading elfking [6k\]: ouch larrymarx [6k\]: apparently white doesn't want to save it very much abbadan [-\]: not now ] ;W[jo]C[Neospring [3k\]: w all good shapes elfking [6k\]: e6 Tsuijin [1d\]: is e2 uncatchable? MrShintou [-\]: i feel g6 is best RubysDad [3k\]: e5 now elfking [6k\]: g6 feels over concentrated elfking [6k\]: e5 now or e6 SunnyD [3d\]: F17 elfking [6k\]: hrm SunnyD :-) GiantCat [-\]: o5 elfking [6k\]: but that removes the threat of c11 by black shinkirou [1k\]: d6 elfking [6k\]: f17 feels counter productive to all the the movement at the bottom left by black fractic [2k\]: c11 is hardly a threat though fractic [2k\]: white has e17 ] ;B[eo]C[Neospring [3k\]: b1! elfking [6k\]: c11 makes d15 less meaningful although white has e17 as a reply satakieli [5k\]: RubysDad got it! carla [7k\]: smart daddy Pinus [7k?\]: E17 now? H2He [7k\]: lucky son:) Jenghis [2k\]: I think we should have a guessing competition betweent the kyu's and the dans? elfking [6k\]: jenghis hehe Jenghis [2k\]: I am not sure that the kyu's might not win : ) cliftut [14k?\]: Is white going to play in corner now? C2? This is quite beyond my depth. :) trimurti [6k\]: beginner's mind Neospring [3k\]: dans dont waste much time tpying tamy1 [16k\]: what rank are the players? Neospring [3k\]: they just watch and play it thru twintom [6k\]: d10 elfking [6k\]: cliftut it's hard for white to do that. carla [7k\]: 8 poor and 3 poor MrShintou [-\]: white is 8p, black is 3p. jankenpopp: r14 elfking [6k\]: carla!!! LOL Jenghis [2k\]: Dans don't type because they are smart enough to know that they don't understand the pros thinking : ) MrShintou [-\]: bad jenghis. elfking [6k\]: it's a shame because it would be interesting to know their thoughts ^^ ] ;W[cr]C[Jenghis [2k\]: : ) MrShintou cliftut [14k?\]: I was right! elfking [6k\]: oooh ddk wins! triking [10k\]: 14k calls it whoo AutoAtari [3k?\]: dans don't type because they are watching and analyzing the game cliftut [14k?\]: What the heck. X| elfking [6k\]: clif it's because now g1 and something like c3 or c5 are miai USGO1 [-\]: Kim has left the board and the room for the first time this morning. Neospring [3k\]: #2 carla [7k\]: even pro's have to use the bathroom elfking [6k\]: i thought pros wore diapers :( Tsuijin [1d\]: man Tsuijin [1d\]: if white doesn't even have to connect back Tsuijin [1d\]: that would suck for B carla [7k\]: hehe elf IstTengen [9k\]: i guess they also need blood in their brains... cliftut [14k?\]: elfking: Yeah, I was just surprised that my intuition led me to the right move. Javaness [-\]: D11 looks fun Vinz [9k\]: kim left the room?? escaper :) MrShintou [-\]: more like your face Neospring [3k\]: b1 better H2He [7k\]: no Confuse24 [3k\]: bad shaoe fir b MXHero [-\]: b1 makes no eyes and w dies Neospring [3k\]: im joking... MXHero [-\]: oh :) carla [7k\]: b1 is the vital point Jenghis [2k\]: any Dans guesses for blacks move? Tsuijin [1d\]: d4? Neospring [3k\]: l3 for b! Exception [5k\]: c3 MXHero [-\]: d2 ] ;B[ed]C[GoteGote [1d\]: d4 will be the third empty triangle for black... MrShintou [-\]: E16. Tsuijin [1d\]: hehe cliftut [14k?\]: lol krakengo [1d\]: =p MXHero [-\]: ha Neospring [3k\]: ya b has bad shapes Jenghis [2k\]: Should we have a special catagory for (-) people? MrShintou [-\]: honest to god this was my guess.. MrShintou [-\]: i type too slow >< H2He [7k\]: me to:) ronni [2d?\]: a lot of nice aji around f5 ] ;W[cj]C[krakengo [1d\]: i like w here ronni [2d?\]: me too krakengo [1d\]: G3 looks like failure, from shape MilanMilan [9d\]: yin kuo? ronni [2d?\]: but I am always wrong in reading MilanMilan [9d\]: well MrShintou [-\]: o/ milan Jenghis [2k\]: I think black will play e10 ronni [2d?\]: whole b left quarter looks a bit unfamiliar to me H2He [7k\]: e2 miai for connection or live in corner*? Confuse24 [3k\]: b12 MrShintou [-\]: i think black will play K17 :D ] ;B[do]C[MrShintou [-\]: pfft @ shape. Jenghis [2k\]: Is that a push for the guessers? Confuse24 [3k\]: calling me a guesser Jenghis [2k\]: did you call it? GoteGote [1d\]: Why Black choose this moment to make e16 c10 exchange? krakengo [1d\]: to induce this EagleHelm [11k\]: very long game Jenghis [2k\]: I really don't have a clue as to whites next move : ( jankenpopp: f1 shinkirou [1k\]: connect probably Oleksandr [2k\]: g1 can be too ] ;W[bq]C[krakengo [1d\]: B3 maybe larrymarx [6k\]: it looks like white is leading by a lot because he's been forming territory GoteGote [1d\]: c3 first? to make one more emprty triangle? Jenghis [2k\]: hmm, I think we give that to the dan : ) Tsuijin [1d\]: black is starting to float! shinkirou [1k\]: the h3 stones sure look pointless now slinky [-\]: Times? MrShintou [-\]: i count more solid territory fro black :) jankenpopp: ? H2He [7k\]: a lot Jenghis [2k\]: We kyus's are going to have to step it up. What is the next move? H2He [7k\]: a lot krakengo [1d\]: for watari, G1 weak (b can cut), H1 best ? gosta [5k\]: w good tamy1 [16k\]: f2? AutoAtari [3k?\]: b4 fractic [2k\]: how to cut g1 kraken? MrShintou [-\]: i count more solid territory for black than white =D GoteGote [1d\]: f1 i think shinkirou [1k\]: b has more right now jankenpopp: d2 best! shinkirou [1k\]: but all w shapes are so good Neospring [3k\]: b all bade shapes carla [7k\]: f1 would look so weird krakengo [1d\]: G1 can be cut at F1 USGO1 [-\]: Time Check - W: 80 minutes remaining, B: 69 minutes. oibbi [1d\]: h1 cuts g1 ] ;B[qf]C[fractic [2k\]: h1 doesn't Snaga [1d\]: b likes h3 shape Jenghis [2k\]: wow, no one called that fractic [2k\]: h1 h2 f1 g2 f2 white then cuts at f3 oibbi [1d\]: o yea... olol... f1 then oibbi [1d\]: ^^ gosta [5k\]: f5 group not safe ^^ AutoAtari [3k?\]: I was thinking of R14 after C10 fractic [2k\]: starting with f1 cuts indeed Jenghis [2k\]: These pros are making us all look bad : ( fractic [2k\]: but white would live in the corner anyway Nouli [-\]: L17 ? :x krakengo [1d\]: R14 well... top bigger ? USGO1 [-\]: Kuo Yin leaves he tabbe whle Zhaonian Chen watches from the next table over shinkirou [1k\]: r14 is a nice piont for w too ... shinkirou [1k\]: if you build top he builds right side Jenghis [2k\]: I think white 017 krakengo [1d\]: i don't know, at top b is high on both sides, on the right w has a finished position jankenpopp: e8 Nyanbot: o17 p17 o16 l16 Nyanbot: seems bad for w H2He [7k\]: j4 tsuke didt work at al? fractic [2k\]: a wedge seems better on the top USGO1 [-\]: Kuo Yin returns with coffee Jenghis [2k\]: hmm, you might be right Nyanbot shinkirou [1k\]: hehe go caffeine power AutoAtari [3k?\]: p18 :) Rocker [4d\]: r12 EagleHelm [11k\]: Latte ftw Jenghis [2k\]: Rocker says r12, rocker is pretty good at guessing. MilanMilan [9d\]: that's will be a long game Jenghis [2k\]: What does Milan guess? Nyanbot: whats the purpose of r12? twintom [6k\]: k15? krakengo [1d\]: nothing EagleHelm [11k\]: something on the top side Jenghis [2k\]: r12 is 6 points in gote MXHero [-\]: maybe w d16 first? fractic [2k\]: it makes approachihng on 017 easier though jeffywhite [7k\]: geeze this takes long fractic [2k\]: but i still think the top is better MrShintou [-\]: haha :) i think its fine. shinkirou [1k\]: you don't have to watch ya know :) MrShintou [-\]: gives me time to reflect on the game. EagleHelm [11k\]: top is way better Pinus [6k\]: Maybe Q18 now. shinkirou [1k\]: i like long games better quality Nyanbot: q17 GoteGote [1d\]: a little more than 6 gote i think because black r11 will aim at r7 MXHero [-\]: q18 is usually best if b has a moyo already Jenghis [2k\]: Mingjiu says that r12 is sente against the corner : ) EagleHelm [11k\]: l17? USGO1 [-\]: Yin can do without the caffeine, its just water in the cup... MrShintou [-\]: i agree w/ ming jiu krakengo [1d\]: but R7 is not death and b R11 is not that big either, compared to top ? Pinus [6k\]: Or simply L17? MrShintou [-\]: but i'd rather attack the corner than the side fractic [2k\]: but r12 is a bit slow fractic [2k\]: even if you get r12 and then invade black will get a good moyo on the top side hatrick [4k\]: just water :-/ cliftut [14k?\]: When is someone going to claim territory in top middle? shinkirou [1k\]: mingjiu is playing on another board right now :) and in a pretty complicated fight Uberdude [2d\]: split top now i think Nyanbot: l17 j17 o17 p17 o16 maybe, but w extension isnt 100% efficient ] ;W[kc]C[Nouli [-\]: I won o// krakengo [1d\]: :) cliftut [14k?\]: I spoke too soon. Nyanbot: you rule Pinus [6k\]: Back to a quiet game. Jenghis [2k\]: Shall we call that a tie between the kyus and dans? Uberdude [2d\]: q18 is the follow up on the right Uberdude [2d\]: i think b may n17 Uberdude [2d\]: but then r17 is tricky Nyanbot: j17 imho GoteGote [1d\]: just p17? vop [11k\]: : | EagleHelm [11k\]: i was right! krakengo [1d\]: what about tenuki MXHero [-\]: i like p17 shinkirou [1k\]: i was thinking p17 but doesn't seem active enough H2He [7k\]: j17, pls fractic [2k\]: tenuki to where kraken? krakengo [1d\]: each b move has problems EagleHelm [11k\]: j17 Reborned [1k\]: h17 Reborned [1k\]: ? Jenghis [2k\]: Oh eagle helm called it! one more for the kyus's : ) krakengo [1d\]: maybe wait to decide Nyanbot: h17 is loose Bruno5940 [16k\]: o17 is that ok? Nyanbot: j17 better? Rocker [4d\]: R121111111 Nyanbot: p17 sounds fine Rocker [4d\]: r12!!!! sentience [-\]: b seems a little better? it looks as he has more potential Fatality [7k\]: n17 Pinus [6k\]: I think J17 is the correct side. EagleHelm [11k\]: yeah MXHero [-\]: if b feels good about the game, p17 is great Nyanbot: j17 o17 p17 o16 the easy way shinkirou [1k\]: i'm wondering about o4 now ... vulgar but maybe it can be useful soon jankenpopp: ?? EagleHelm [11k\]: o17 is terrible GoteGote [1d\]: p17 looks a little sente against l17 and sager than longer extension Nyanbot: p17 h17 and w has f17 latter Rocker [4d\]: 90% SURE R12 , OK? Bruno5940 [16k\]: can u explain to me? Pinus [6k\]: I like P17 too, very quiet. sentience [-\]: o4 doesn't do much? EagleHelm [11k\]: o17 leaves the corner open SunnyD [3d\]: R7 krakengo [1d\]: i don't know, P17 is really slow, N17 has too much corner aji, and we can go on with each move shinkirou [1k\]: o4 tries to make centre w not right away though fractic [2k\]: I like j17 because black can end in sente on the top and take r11 SunnyD [3d\]: C12 Nouli [-\]: One question, how a profesionnal can go up in dan level ? MXHero [-\]: winning tournaments Nyanbot: with time Rocker [4d\]: R12 90% P17 NEXTCANDIDATE EagleHelm [11k\]: Oteai SunnyD [3d\]: gain xp points tzolee [4k?\]: p17 tzolee [4k?\]: ? fractic [2k\]: r12 by black? AutoAtari [3k?\]: they play regular games, ooteai Rocker [4d\]: OK? fractic [2k\]: why not r11? Rocker [4d\]: AH Rocker [4d\]: YES R11 Prodigious [4d\]: Well, no Oteai in Japan anymore krakengo [1d\]: i think R11 better tha answering at top Nyanbot: yep hatrick [4k\]: i like R12 too EagleHelm [11k\]: really? no oteai? fractic [2k\]: i think you can just get both cliftut [14k?\]: h17 or g17 feel good to me, as well as o17 and r18. Prodigious [4d\]: Yeah, they dropped it a while ago Nyanbot: ooteai is hikaru no go stuff hatrick [4k\]: R11 or R12 Rocker [4d\]: I WAS CONFUSED WITH W TAKING R12 , BUT I MEANT R11 FUR SHO! oonicks [?\]: i think j17 is best and b will play o17 AutoAtari [3k?\]: what do thry do instead? SunnyD [3d\]: there is still oteai in japan Reborned [1k\]: j17 looks fine ere tzolee [4k?\]: r11 maybe better than r12 .. Nouli [-\]: so a 8p is someone who won some tournaments in the past or someone who can beat lower dan players ? Jenghis [2k\]: Move already ! USGO1 [-\]: Kim has stepped away from the board to throw away his water cup. EagleHelm [11k\]: thats what i think Nyanjilla [-\]: no, there is no longer an oteai in Japan MXHero [-\]: b would not play o17 Nyanbot: they have goals to reach each pro ranking krakengo [1d\]: if J17, w can Q17, or Q18, not O17 SunnyD [3d\]: there is oteai for sumo Nyanjilla [-\]: true Rocker [4d\]: the cup broke? hatrick [4k\]: im guessing it's a plastic or paper cup Nyanbot: each pro level has a set of goals, the pro who accomplishes all the goals of such level evolves to that level SunnyD [3d\]: Crushed the cup in anger? Nouli [-\]: ok so it's not the same way than martial arts Lynx [2d\]: It's 08/08/08 USGO1 [-\]: Just a paper cup. Probably just stretching his legs. cliftut [14k?\]: I think the greater tension is on the upper left, but possibly bigger points in the end if black goes upper right first. Nyanjilla [-\]: Nyanbot is spreading disinformatin Nyanbot: what? Lynx [2d\]: Stop faking Nyanbot. Lynx [2d\]: The show's up. Nyanbot: im not faking... i read it was like that hatrick [4k\]: I don't think blck will play on top EagleHelm [11k\]: yeah the oteai was disbanded in 2003 jeffywhite [7k\]: there has been so much talking that move 44 has left the text screen sentience [-\]: top is only place to play EagleHelm [11k\]: just looked it up on senseis JOC [?\]: whats oteai krakengo [1d\]: maybe Lynx [2d\]: top is pretty big hatrick [4k\]: it doesn't "feel" right to play on the top though lol krakengo [1d\]: then R14 had to be at top, since there is no satisfying move for b hatrick [4k\]: to 4k me, albeit carla [7k\]: how do I become a professional 7k? EagleHelm [11k\]: Oteai was a ranking tournament for professionals in japan untill 2003 GoteGote [1d\]: Wht's the purpose of f17 i didn't remember GoteGote [1d\]: ? GiantCat [-\]: I'm impressed at their patience EagleHelm [11k\]: lol carla Lynx [2d\]: kgs 7k much weaker than pro 7k Lynx [2d\]: it's not easy, carla. ] ;B[ch]C[EagleHelm [11k\]: lol carla [7k\]: yes but I'm a strong 7k krakengo [1d\]: good call Jenghis [2k\]: another push? krakengo [1d\]: b waits and sees hatrick [4k\]: wow, who guessed that one? i think 1 person did! lol okiol [5k\]: pro 7k? tzolee [4k?\]: p 7k ? :-) EagleHelm [11k\]: 7pk JOC [?\]: you have to beat a pro 8k several times SunnyD [3d\]: Juice power Nouli [-\]: is it preparing something like J16 after ? Lynx [2d\]: I played a pro 8k...it wasn't good. IstTengen [9k\]: Carla -7p Chievo [3k\]: woah Chievo [3k\]: b is really daring hatrick [4k\]: Carla 7pk okiol [5k\]: lynx, i'm not sure, but i think you misunderstood something Fatality [7k\]: actually it's possible to become 7k professional. you just have to earn your money with go at 7k level carla [7k\]: ok thx guys Chievo [3k\]: difficult for w EagleHelm [11k\]: wow some people can't take a joke Lynx [2d\]: so if your 7k and make a living selling go books n stuff, you're pro 7k? Chievo [3k\]: maybe tenuki is best? sentience [-\]: ... okiol [5k\]: yeah, and also, it's possible to take away the sund, you just need enouigh water Fatality [7k\]: no problem carla ;) I'm always here for dumb questions :) okiol [5k\]: sun*** sentience [-\]: no, since you'd be seling books, not playing go EagleHelm [11k\]: okiol water wouldn't put the sun out Nouli [-\]: well you can have a p on kgz only assuming you have a diploma from a go federation okiol [5k\]: enough water would Lynx [2d\]: I sell the books while I play Go. okiol [5k\]: trust me, all you need is enough water Chievo [3k\]: and b has surrounding influence for C12 as well Chievo [3k\]: difficult position for w EagleHelm [11k\]: i think d12 is best jeffywhite [7k\]: i think w should connect and make big thickness IstTengen [9k\]: okiol... the water would disintegrate at the temperature and the hydrogen would feed the suns reaction... so... no? okiol [5k\]: don't change subject, chievo H2He [7k\]: now "Go World 1-108" in dvd :) Chievo [3k\]: not changing AutoAtari [3k?\]: d11 Chievo [3k\]: just discussing the game okiol [5k\]: that's not true EagleHelm [11k\]: d11 does look good Jenghis [2k\]: Do we have a consensus froml the Kyu's d11 or d12? hatrick [4k\]: i don't like d11... jeffywhite [7k\]: 12 jeffywhite [7k\]: i like d 12 okiol [5k\]: whatever, let's just look at the game, i'll let you get last word Ophelia [-\]: d12 Chievo [3k\]: thank you mr okial Fatality [7k\]: d11 carpenter [6k\]: b10 Lynx [2d\]: ask them how they know - it's me. huginmunin [10k\]: e11 maybe? Ophelia [-\]: or jump Jenghis [2k\]: I notice a conspicous quiet from the dans? EagleHelm [11k\]: i can't choose between d11 or d12 Lynx [2d\]: is a dan Lynx [2d\]: w must make a sente thickness move ronni [2d?\]: I would play d11, so this certainly no good move EagleHelm [11k\]: lynx how would you play? Jenghis [2k\]: What is your guess Lynx? Lynx [2d\]: d12! EagleHelm [11k\]: cool Tsuijin [1d\]: gonna give a wild guess and say C11! Chievo [3k\]: lol AutoAtari [3k?\]: and then w plays on the top or somewhere else :p hatrick [4k\]: u gotta see what white's aim would be... ] ;W[dh]C[DSCH [5d\]: D12 is normal now. EagleHelm [11k\]: yay! Ophelia [-\]: yay Chievo [3k\]: WOH Jenghis [2k\]: and lynx nails it : ) jeffywhite [7k\]: ho jeffywhite [7k\]: i was right hatrick [4k\]: half the ppl here nailed it :-/ okiol [5k\]: dsch writing very fast EagleHelm [11k\]: lol thats true hatrick Jenghis [2k\]: have to call it a push : ) carla [7k\]: poor D12, full of nails EagleHelm [11k\]: nail? deft [4d\]: lower left B group has poor shape hatrick [4k\]: C11? lol SunnyD [3d\]: how many called C12? krakengo [1d\]: are you the one carla ? carla [7k\]: i am the one Nouli [-\]: the singer ? Gresil [8k\]: carla bozulich? Tower [3d\]: who's leading the open right now ? Loop [5k\]: sunny too AutoAtari [3k?\]: the professional kyu ronni [2d?\]: w slowly forming strong middle influence hatrick [4k\]: sunnyD and 1 other person called c12 i thnk outstander [4k\]: how can someone lead in a tourney?? EagleHelm [11k\]: c12 would be bad hatrick [4k\]: d11? i think c11 is more normal... DSCH [5d\]: I like white in this game. pwoner [3d\]: =/ SunnyD [3d\]: This is the final Tower [3d\]: by having the best record currently ? ] ;B[oc]C[Nouli [-\]: W O6 is dangerous no ? okiol [5k\]: if it's built as a leuge nogonow [7k\]: aji EagleHelm [11k\]: h17 Jenghis [2k\]: Did anyone call that? hatrick [4k\]: i don';t think so H2He [7k\]: Rocker long time ago hatrick [4k\]: not as move 47 at least Jenghis [2k\]: yeh, but after r11 EagleHelm [11k\]: whites group needs a base so h17 hatrick [4k\]: r12! outstander [4k\]: prob right MrShintou [-\]: black is making profit, because he is ahead, and feels no threat from the center ronni [2d?\]: h 17 another tenuki for b Lynx [2d\]: agree with h17 EagleHelm [11k\]: cool EagleHelm [11k\]: thanks lynx hatrick [4k\]: well, black has like 3 corners GoteGote [1d\]: f17? Lynx [2d\]: two dans have spoken Tower [3d\]: haha USGO1 [-\]: Both Myungwan Kim and Kuo Yin are leading the US Open at this time with 4 wins and no losses. Saturday morning is the final round. Tower [3d\]: ahh so this is the battle of the big shots SunnyD [3d\]: R17 Nyanbot: is there someone stronger than them? Ophelia [-\]: http://www.usgo.org/congress/2008/crosstab.html hatrick [4k\]: but no urgency for r17, is there? carla [7k\]: are you also participating Ophelia? Ophelia [-\]: no :( john [5k\]: H17 is safe but too small. Kim is thinking now how to avoid it Tower [3d\]: its almost necessary Ophelia [-\]: I usually do. but I can't this year Tower [3d\]: H17 by black is too good it seems to me Tower [3d\]: or J17 carla [7k\]: next year maybe oonicks [?\]: g17 Nyanbot: w h17, b f17 MrShintou [-\]: white has 2 moves... h17 or g17 Tower [3d\]: attacking F5 might be sente but he'll need to add a move up there soon i think hatrick [4k\]: white should play h17 rather than j17 if u ask me MXHero [-\]: c12 is incomprehensible to me john [5k\]: I agree Tower. just imagin EagleHelm [11k\]: i think g17 is too easlily split EagleHelm [11k\]: *easily Rocker [4d\]: w R12!!NOW!! john [5k\]: I predict G17 Tower [3d\]: its not splittable really, but black is so thick on both sides Tower [3d\]: its probably not the best move MrShintou [-\]: *slaps rockers wrist* Nouli [-\]: no way to play on the fourth line for influence Nouli [-\]: ? krakengo [1d\]: C12 = probe Nyanbot: what means MMS in that crosstab? H2He [7k\]: thank you very much: Ophelia Vash3G [-\]: MAcMAhon Score krakengo [1d\]: have w commit MXHero [-\]: well yes it's a probe, but the timing is so interesting GoteGote [1d\]: g17 will be to close to f17 too delete a cool option Fatality [7k\]: j17 would be too good for black to allow Rocker [4d\]: HOW ABOUT R17 PROBE NOW? Nyanbot: i see Gresil [8k\]: there's nothing white can do with l17 in sente, so he'll play kikashi somewhere first? MXHero [-\]: i just have no idea what b has in mind for it right now Tsuijin [1d\]: yah I agree with rocker Tsuijin [1d\]: r17 probe!! hatrick [4k\]: if r12, blk plays like...g17 krakengo [1d\]: maybe later b can make w regret D12 for some other move Violet [2d\]: what is kikashi? ] ;W[hc]C[Tower [3d\]: forcing move i think EagleHelm [11k\]: yay! hatrick [4k\]: yay! krakengo [1d\]: yes kakashi MXHero [-\]: well yes, but considering how long b thought about that move i'd think there's more to it than that Rocker [4d\]: OOPS I M BAD SORRY ] ;B[qi]C[MrShintou [-\]: blakc to play B14. Tower [3d\]: hmm Tower [3d\]: F9 Tower [3d\]: or so ? JOC [?\]: hows white going to win this? MXHero [-\]: rocker! you got it now :) Rocker [4d\]: FINALLY r11!! hatrick [4k\]: lol Iliusha [3d\]: no Rock, u r 2 STRONG Nyanbot: WHY CAPS? Tower [3d\]: he's going to build a wall at E8 area then seal E16 H2He [7k\]: blitz go Tower [3d\]: and make a big center! EagleHelm [11k\]: i think white will win sentience [-\]: coz cap rulez JOC [?\]: killing g3 group ;D krakengo [1d\]: w to attack bottom left jankenpopp: n18 nogonow [7k\]: big for b bblz [8k\]: how much time left, please? Rocker [4d\]: r17 now? outstander [4k\]: b is doing well fractic [2k\]: w needs to attack soon EagleHelm [11k\]: r17 is dead nogonow [7k\]: right fractic [2k\]: b ahead on territory AutoAtari [3k?\]: r17 is ko? Rocker [4d\]: c11? Nouli [-\]: san san is playable with that kind of enclosure ? fractic [2k\]: r17 is as dead as they get DSCH [5d\]: R17 now may only lose points. nogonow [7k\]: ko? Lynx [2d\]: I have made two statements that were right krakengo [1d\]: R17 = probe krakengo [1d\]: but bad now i think fractic [2k\]: i don't think you will get a lot of useful forcing moves even ] ;W[eb]C[EagleHelm [11k\]: i like that move MXHero [-\]: neat Nyanbot: yeah AutoAtari [3k?\]: ah, must be dead hatrick [4k\]: didnt guess that one :-/ fractic [2k\]: it's nice MrShintou [-\]: krak,,, you cannot R17 they were joking krakengo [1d\]: aaaah not easy Nyanbot: f17 was big for b ] ;B[db]C[Rocker [4d\]: d18 Jenghis [2k\]: too slow Rocker : ( bblz [8k\]: USGO, how much time is left, please? hatrick [4k\]: f17 EagleHelm [11k\]: a bit late Rocker [4d\]: r17 or c11? EagleHelm [11k\]: g15 USGO1 [-\]: Kim goes to place a stone, then puts it back in the bowl to think some more. fractic [2k\]: f18 feels better then f17 Lynx [2d\]: classic Kim =) fractic [2k\]: but i think it's too slow hatrick [4k\]: do u know kim? GoteGote [1d\]: tenuki Chievo [3k\]: kim is a hero EagleHelm [11k\]: which association is kim in? ] ;W[bf]C[Chievo [3k\]: aga duh H2He [7k\]: R17 is ko? EagleHelm [11k\]: no ] ;B[gb]C[Rocker [4d\]: dang........ Nyanbot: AGA does not do pros Gresil [8k\]: he can't be a pro in aga... GoteGote [1d\]: e18 d18 is a good exchange for white now he must take sente in other part of board sentience [-\]: r17 is dead Nyanbot: duh carla [7k\]: he's an imported pro EagleHelm [11k\]: i know Chievo [3k\]: sherlocks EagleHelm [11k\]: which one? Nouli [-\]: H18 and then G15 ? Chievo [3k\]: AGA krakengo [1d\]: B14 in sente is huge EagleHelm [11k\]: chievo shut up Rocker [4d\]: h18?????? krakengo [1d\]: b bottom left a lot weaker now fractic [2k\]: h18 feels passive Nyanbot: still strong enough H2He [7k\]: yes EagleHelm [11k\]: black bottom left can escape AutoAtari [3k?\]: f17? DSCH [5d\]: G18 does not seem to require direct answer. GoteGote [1d\]: bottom left is not so weak i think b4 looks like his sente EagleHelm [11k\]: what is the byo yomi in this game? USGO1 [-\]: Yin played the last move very deliberately on the board. Kim did not seem pleased with the result. Fatality [7k\]: look options Rocker [4d\]: H18!!!!! ] ;W[bp]C[carla [7k\]: 5x 0:30 krakengo [1d\]: :) krakengo [1d\]: vital point Nouli [-\]: 5d owns MrShintou [-\]: i do not know why b did not take b14 earlier WWSD [1k\]: thats great, describe their emotion GoteGote [1d\]: b4 was big! USGO1 [-\]: Time Check - W: 59 minutes remaining, B: 53 minutes. MrShintou [-\]: what is kim wearing? WWSD [1k\]: lol outstander [4k\]: lol Nyanbot: nothing krakengo [1d\]: E18 worth remembering EagleHelm [11k\]: i think white will win hatrick [4k\]: lol hatrick [4k\]: lol MrShintou [-\]: but... black has so many more points EagleHelm [11k\]: he does JOC [?\]: some beautiful moyo building sequence or resign EagleHelm [11k\]: i'm just being hopeful H2He [7k\]: E18 is lost? Rocker [4d\]: TENUKI AND H18? krakengo [1d\]: no YouWish [?\]: this is so slow game.. Nyanbot: b5 EagleHelm [11k\]: YouWish: it gives us time to discuss jankenpopp: d10 Rocker [4d\]: TENUKI LIKE man krakengo [1d\]: well yes, go b, H18, so i can do something else EagleHelm [11k\]: and get strong at kibitz ] ;B[bk]C[Rocker [4d\]: gee!! outstander [4k\]: kibitz is half the battle DragonWolf [5k\]: why does black C12 DragonWolf [5k\]: ? WWSD [1k\]: i was just going to ask if there were any weakness in that group hatrick [4k\]: where does the word kibitz come from :-/ Nyanbot: german fractic [2k\]: C12 was a probe outstander [4k\]: at go school, you don't even touch a piece for the first 3 years.. just kibitz YouWish [?\]: how much time left for each player? H2He [7k\]: isreal USGO1 [-\]: Some of the other boards in the room are starting to finish up near our top boards. The noise is a distraction to both players, but they soon go away. Rocker [4d\]: ok b wants b5 Gresil [8k\]: sounds yiddishy Nyanbot: kibitz, blitz, all german origin DragonWolf [5k\]: what is the benefit? DragonWolf [5k\]: aji for later? Nyanbot: blitzkrieg, remember EagleHelm [11k\]: outstander how would you know? outstander [4k\]: eagle: i was joking :) carla [7k\]: blitzkibitz krakengo [1d\]: R11 mistake it seems Thmayu [3d\]: if b plays solidly he should be able to win fractic [2k\]: the benefit of C12 is to see how white answers so black can decide how to play krakengo [1d\]: pintokonai, was that the word hatrick [4k\]: it's a chess term!!! kibitz USGO1 [-\]: Black has roughly 50 minutes remaining while White has nearly 60. Lynx [2d\]: I guess there're a lot of ways to fail yourself. Nyanbot: imported from Germany outstander [4k\]: w has to b10 no? Tower [3d\]: what are the nationalities of these pros ? outstander [4k\]: b b10 is painful + sente Nyanbot: korean and chinoise Lynx [2d\]: but the number one way is by not trying DragonWolf [5k\]: chinese and korean would be my guess Lynx [2d\]: you have to believe in yourself first krakengo [1d\]: both have many 2nd line moves Rocker [4d\]: w thinking of b5??????? jankenpopp: b10 has to be the best move here ] ;W[bo]C[carla [7k\]: the second line is the line of defeat jankenpopp: but watch white tenki.. jankenpopp: tenuki* Neospring [3k\]: b6 prob better H2He [7k\]: kibitz=kibutz=colletive( from israel) Uberdude [2d\]: 2nd line is win Rocker [4d\]: hehehe Uberdude [2d\]: i like w position in this coner krakengo [1d\]: don't B4 if not ready to B5 ;-) MrShintou [-\]: whites making 2 weak groups... Uberdude [2d\]: h3 group is junk hatrick [4k\]: kibitz and kibutz are different i think :-/ Nyanbot: Germany imported kibitz from Isreal then Nouli [-\]: dans are owning kyu's kibitzers Tower [3d\]: that would seem normal no? Rocker [4d\]: b11 krakengo [1d\]: go b, B10 Neospring [3k\]: b10 Lynx [2d\]: this position is bad. both black and white are rGOOOO superstarrs.. krakengo [1d\]: it's big and sente, second line !! Nyanbot: c9 DragonWolf [5k\]: is B11 better than B10? Tower [3d\]: i'd b10 krakengo [1d\]: canoot WWSD [1k\]: so white wants to fight? Rocker [4d\]: I MEAN B10 MrShintou [-\]: c11 i play DragonWolf [5k\]: C10 seems like big yose WWSD [1k\]: weak vs weak vs weak DragonWolf [5k\]: B10 Nyanbot: c9 krakengo [1d\]: cannot B10, running into B14 is meaningless for b krakengo [1d\]: fix those keima, b Rocker [4d\]: ITS MY EROOR , I MEANT B10 OF CURSE Betonlife [2k\]: kibitz, isn't it yiddish rather ? DragonWolf [5k\]: krak: isn't it a ladder into blacks wall? isaka [-\]: rocky, get a dictionary Neospring [3k\]: d11 DragonWolf [5k\]: might be gote for black though Tower [3d\]: rocker is just being silly isaka [-\]: and turn off your caps ±' krakengo [1d\]: kitani minoru disliked the keima Nyanbot: yeah Tower [3d\]: B10, C6 though maybe ? outstander [4k\]: i just read that on some forum today... Nyanbot: if rocker can speak all caps we also can MrShintou [-\]: if you want the auntology of the word krakengo [1d\]: because it can always be cut or exploited MrShintou [-\]: it comes from kibitsen which is yidish which came from kiebitzen from german. sleblanc [9k\]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kibbutz Schlaefer [?\]: what are the stars, crowns and hexagons at the names for? Tower [3d\]: rulers of kgs for a day krakengo [1d\]: see KGS FAQ hatrick [4k\]: black seems in trouble now :-/ MrShintou [-\]: c11 cut is deeper than b10 Schlaefer [?\]: i looked already in the faq Schlaefer [?\]: did not find it krakengo [1d\]: mmmh Pedro6548 [11k\]: may be c11? Nyanbot: c9 Uberdude [2d\]: Schlaefer, click the help menu Neospring [3k\]: stars =gm crowns = tourny winner hexagon = subscriber Uberdude [2d\]: then select help DSCH [5d\]: No stone above the fifth line so far… quite a quiet game. WWSD [1k\]: B10 or protect C6 area? Lynx [2d\]: feels like W is using GO power that B is not using!! Uberdude [2d\]: form that page there is a link to icons ] ;B[ck]C[Nyanbot: i win Schlaefer [?\]: thanx guys! cliftut [14k?\]: C11 or B10 I expect. Pedro6548 [11k\]: why that? Neospring [3k\]: cuz w wont lay b10 carla [7k\]: the side who plays tengen will win JOC [?\]: i think w is playing a bomb move now Faint31k [1k\]: tengen isnt really good for anything atm DragonWolf [5k\]: hmm I don't think tengen is worth much here.. doesn't really form nice moyo or stop any ladders Nyanbot: d10 natural ] ;W[dj]C[Nyanbot: i win again ] ;B[bj]C[krakengo [1d\]: ok 1 keima fixed seishiro [15k\]: i think b10 will do GoteGote [1d\]: now c6 DSCH [5d\]: Nyanbot is strong. DragonWolf [5k\]: how strong? Nyanbot: very Fatality [7k\]: Nyanbot 9d? DragonWolf [5k\]: B11? WWSD [1k\]: wouldnt C11 work instead of D10? DragonWolf [5k\]: or is that too slow? nogonow [7k\]: Nyanbot who r u? seishiro [15k\]: b11 twintom [6k\]: wrong direction Faint31k [1k\]: c11 twintom [6k\]: y Nyanbot: c11 is bad Neospring [3k\]: c11 bad.. Gresil [8k\]: e7! Faint31k [1k\]: b11 bad >> carla [7k\]: lol twintom Lynx [2d\]: b12 local imoooo EagleHelm [11k\]: b11 Tower [3d\]: cut cut cut WWSD [1k\]: why is it bad seishiro [15k\]: how is b11 bad Lynx [2d\]: iMo EagleHelm [11k\]: or b12 WWSD [1k\]: well was WAS it bad WWSD [1k\]: why* Neospring [3k\]: time to run DragonWolf [5k\]: D9 frirst? Tower [3d\]: cutttttttttttt krakengo [1d\]: B12 over B11 DragonWolf [5k\]: or C6? Tower [3d\]: c6 AutoAtari [3k?\]: if he plays in that area, it can only be b12, but he'll probably do something else DragonWolf [5k\]: hmm bit early for c6 Neospring [3k\]: d9 forces b to make good shape.. EagleHelm [11k\]: b12 EagleHelm [11k\]: wow WWSD [1k\]: E7 Tower [3d\]: i don't think the loose net works EagleHelm [11k\]: just read out b11 EagleHelm [11k\]: muy bad Nyanbot: c6 isnt cut DragonWolf [5k\]: B11 doesn't work at all I don't think Fatality [7k\]: b11 is not vital, so white must run WWSD [1k\]: why not cut seishiro [15k\]: it will work for playing b11 DragonWolf [5k\]: C6 might be best Tower [3d\]: c6 looks like a cut to me AutoAtari [3k?\]: e8 Bierce [1d\]: b12 vital Nyanbot: but is not EagleHelm [11k\]: fatality read out b11 Uberdude [2d\]: b12 i suppose EagleHelm [11k\]: bad krakengo [1d\]: no, b has D9 now Tower [3d\]: i don't think the loose ladder works, no net or anything ] ;W[cn]C[DragonWolf [5k\]: B7? krakengo [1d\]: aw DragonWolf [5k\]: ah nm DragonWolf [5k\]: god I'm stupid Nyanbot: e7 ? Tower [3d\]: oh the loose ladder does work doesn't it EagleHelm [11k\]: d7 Neospring [3k\]: e8 Pedro6548 [11k\]: d7? DragonWolf [5k\]: D7 seems okay? Tower [3d\]: D6 might be best, can't cut it with d6 DragonWolf [5k\]: F8 will connect? twintom [6k\]: b has terribly bad forms Nouli [-\]: E7 ? twintom [6k\]: this will cost him dearly Pedro6548 [11k\]: but in b6 w can cut right Pedro6548 [11k\]: ? Fatality [7k\]: e7 Pedro6548 [11k\]: d6 Chievo [3k\]: b bad shapenwith d6 Rocker [4d\]: this gane is supa tedious EagleHelm [11k\]: i thought white would win Tower [3d\]: d6 protects the cut though Tower [3d\]: d7 is cuttable GoteGote [1d\]: e7 d8? krakengo [1d\]: maybe that's w 's plan WWSD [1k\]: e7 eviiL [3d\]: how much time have they left ? outstander [4k\]: is b c11 stupid? deft [4d\]: why isn't D6 'cuttable', Tower? Chievo [3k\]: to think that w managed to lose to a bot just yesterday Equitsumei [-\]: f7 krakengo [1d\]: yes C11 helps w krakengo [1d\]: less than b ] ;B[em]C[fractic [2k\]: after C11 white's cut is too severe Nyanbot: i win again Nouli [-\]: oh lol Nyanbot: im a winner twintom [6k\]: finally good shape JOC [?\]: b has something read out EagleHelm [11k\]: d8 GoteGote [1d\]: d8? the ladder is good for white Fatality [7k\]: Nyanbot 9d? deft [4d\]: this one cannot be cut Lynx [2d\]: good move to connecting AutoAtari [3k?\]: Nyanbot if you guess b moves and b loses then you're a loser Nyanbot: my moves are 3p-like Rocker [4d\]: hey this waas too easy twintom [6k\]: lol Chievo [3k\]: this is definitely pro move Nouli [-\]: yeah I'm noobish and I guess xD EagleHelm [11k\]: d8 i like the splitting atack if black responds d7 krakengo [1d\]: ok Neospring [3k\]: d9 eviiL [3d\]: how much time have both players still left ? o-o Fatality [7k\]: d8 Chievo [3k\]: ama couldnt think up a move like this in a hundred year krakengo [1d\]: now it's time to help D10 group Chievo [3k\]: s Fatality [7k\]: white cannot allow black to play it Rocker [4d\]: d7 deft [4d\]: it's the best move, so it's clearly a pro move - but I think all players should be able to find this move with a little thinking EagleHelm [11k\]: d7 is stupid revival [2d\]: b12? H2He [7k\]: only USGO1 konw uuffy: what splitting attack USGO1 [-\]: I can't see black's clock, will get you a timecheck when I can soon. fruitdrops [3k\]: b seems to be ahead lemmming [7k\]: thanks eviiL [3d\]: thx usgo GoteGote [1d\]: d7 d8 no? Chievo [3k\]: deft youre closer to pro level, so your vision is blurred EagleHelm [11k\]: thank you casey for voluteering LEIBNIZ [4k\]: I like G7 WWSD [1k\]: either d7 or a threating more to d7 WWSD [1k\]: move* Gresil [8k\]: how does black respond to d8? USGO1 [-\]: Yin has stepped away from the board again. Fatality [7k\]: d7 krakengo [1d\]: i like G9 Chievo [3k\]: to the toilet? Fatality [7k\]: d8 -> d7 I mean revival [2d\]: b12 seems honte AutoAtari [3k?\]: d8 d9 maybe deft [4d\]: the problem is that the B group has little eyeshape deft [4d\]: so it's possible to attack it on a large scale Reborned [1k\]: the 3p is doing well :D lemmming [7k\]: hm, did any pro ever write a book about what he/she does when stepping away from the board? deft [4d\]: W might be able to build something nice in the center guerecon [2k\]: W s3? revival [2d\]: i see uuffy: but b so settled top right DragonWolf [5k\]: lemming: title... "Phone a friend" krakengo [1d\]: but top right is so off focus now Pedro6548 [11k\]: is f8 possible? Chievo [3k\]: maybe grabbing coffee Rocker [4d\]: camong H2He [7k\]: still only to the 5th line Bruno5940 [16k\]: USGO1 ,why does Kuo Yin keep stepping away from the the board? GoteGote [1d\]: c8? carla [7k\]: lol DragonWolf Bierce [1d\]: these 2 sure play slow compared to the other boards DragonWolf [5k\]: :) WWSD [1k\]: what about g7 Nyanbot: this game is important USGO1 [-\]: Yin has returned to the board. Didn't bring anything back with him, so assuming a bathroom break. Iliusha [3d\]: i think w leading by komi Bruno5940 [16k\]: thanks Rocker [4d\]: any popcorns or chips availabe? Neospring [3k\]: popcorn... Neospring [3k\]: rofl krakengo [1d\]: w leading with this attack H2He [7k\]: :) Iliusha [3d\]: ^^ Iliusha [3d\]: no Rock, popcorn only for observers Neospring [3k\]: when i hit 9d imma eat popcorn and pizza when playin Nouli [-\]: is B Q8 playable ? Loop [5k\]: bathroom ? so he win Ophelia [-\]: sometimes I find it clears my head to step away from the board. get a fresh look at the position. Chievo [3k\]: not when, but if MrShintou [-\]: how can white be leading, he has less than 20points revival [2d\]: tournament games are very stressful Loop [5k\]: psychological war carla [7k\]: what's the prize? Loop [5k\]: o WWSD [1k\]: neospring, you gotta do like buffalo wings while holding on to a 5 foot hand fan EagleHelm [11k\]: white wints DragonWolf [5k\]: hmm I think white might play away? Neospring [3k\]: lol Iliusha [3d\]: USGO DragonWolf [5k\]: P11 or something? EagleHelm [11k\]: *wins Iliusha [3d\]: ing masters final today? Neospring [3k\]: use the fan to hide me eating? haha Rocker [4d\]: they think too much....... WWSD [1k\]: heh yeah and blow the smell of the wings tothe other player to distract Neospring [3k\]: maby thats why they pro's rocker USGO1 [-\]: Time Check - W: 45 minutes remaining, B: 42 minutes. outstander [4k\]: p's should just be able to use the force ey? eviiL [3d\]: thank you usgo1 Astral [3k\]: is it possible to play R17? GoteGote [1d\]: d8 looks a very important point for black Fatality [7k\]: Fatality [9p\]: o5 also nice H2He [7k\]: Rocker: can you take a 7 kyu player to 2 kyu for money? Neospring [3k\]: why to 2kyu? Neospring [3k\]: lol H2He [7k\]: 1th step carla [7k\]: then he'll be able to beat you Neo Nyanbot: kyus should not pay for lessons USGO1 [-\]: Both players seem to be getting more intense about counting the board and reading longer. WWSD [1k\]: rocker can i buy some of those d's from you Chievo [3k\]: oh no if they dont hurry its going to be a blitz game ] ;W[bi]C[outstander [4k\]: whoa.. krakengo [1d\]: ! Tsuijin [1d\]: cool fruitdrops [3k\]: huge mower [-\]: is this live? Lynx [2d\]: w don't do mistakzings Rocker [4d\]: i take people that r cute Lynx [2d\]: scoo aoo aaosos zczco outstander [4k\]: b12??? nogonow [7k\]: live???? trambeto [?\]: white is going to have to have some amazing middle game GoteGote [1d\]: oh b11 aims at d8 deft [4d\]: if I was W I would have liked to play H9 mower [-\]: is it live? NickSib [2d\]: w b11 was better than b12? GoteGote [1d\]: now if b12 d8 cut krakengo [1d\]: no no B12 is not interesting for b now WWSD [1k\]: b12 Nyanbot: e9? Neospring [3k\]: h9 gives b more territory and getting nothing? trambeto [?\]: white will kill something in the bottom left surely Nyanbot: e9 or f9 Rocker [4d\]: d6 Neospring [3k\]: h18 Chievo [3k\]: w is forcing b to gote Pedro6548 [11k\]: b12 but w thoth too much maybe it's his intention revival [2d\]: d6 is bad shape krakengo [1d\]: B12 aji keshi now, w C12 then b ?? Nyanbot: f9 better than e9 USGO1 [-\]: The top boards are being broadcast live by the American Go E-Journal; go news from around the world, free every week via email; sign up at www.usgo.org. Time limits are 2 hours basic time, 5 periods of 30 seconds byo yomi. Our broadcasting team today: Game Recorders: Todd Heidenreich (Board 1); Dennis Wheeler (Bd 2); Richard Dolen (Bd 3); Casey Alexander (Bd 4); Oren Laskin (Bd 5); Matthew Heymering (KGS admin); Steve Colburn (IT/back-up); Chris Garlock, Managing Editor Rocker [4d\]: revival strong deft [4d\]: B12 is fairly big since it removes eyespace revival [2d\]: no not at all.. haha sentience [-\]: f8 ? krakengo [1d\]: but it doesn't give b that space USGO1 [-\]: Click here http://www.usgo.org/congress/2008/pairs-r5.html for the Round 2 pairings and here http://www.usgo.org/naim/band-matrix/42 for the results -- and game records – from the top boards. Photos of the top players in the Open and NAIM are also posted online http://www.usgo.org/congress/2008/openplayers.html Click here http://www.usgo.org/congress/2008/staff.html to see the E-Journal Congress Team Rocker [4d\]: moku wise h18 is the biggest Fatality [7k\]: hardly a move beyond 4th line till now USGO1 [-\]: The top boards are being broadcast live by the American Go E-Journal; go news from around the world, free every week via email; sign up at www.usgo.org DarthVader [12k?\]: hey! no spamming GoteGote [1d\]: b12 d8 d7 c8 b7 b8 a8 a9 then d9 is sente and black has not eye space krakengo [1d\]: besides if b could B12 now, would 8p B11 ? (cheap argument i know) revival [2d\]: b12 just seems small deft [4d\]: my feeling is that getting out in the center is most important Nyanbot: b11 is very big krakengo [1d\]: B12 C12, b cause did not advance at all revival [2d\]: yes, but B b12 now would be small Nouli [-\]: white lost much influence on the center Neospring [3k\]: b12 c11 a11 d11 d6 d7 d2 d1 h18 j17 f14 h9 f13 r17 = win Astral [3k\]: lol Neospring [3k\]: lol DragonWolf [5k\]: is't blacks influence in top right more important than center influence? DragonWolf [5k\]: *isn't ] ;B[dr]C[Nyanbot: heh Cassis0 [3d\]: w d11? Nyanbot: im a loser now carla [7k\]: weird outstander [4k\]: d4? GoteGote [1d\]: d2 lol? d4? Nouli [-\]: missclick ? :p Nyanbot: d1 GoteGote [1d\]: oh makes c5 sente outstander [4k\]: why not d4 plz... krakengo [1d\]: trying MrShintou [-\]: maybe hes trying to settle w/ B6 GoteGote [1d\]: then b6 krakengo [1d\]: don't D4 revival [2d\]: b aiming at b6 Chievo [3k\]: these 2 are very aggressive Cassis0 [3d\]: d4 c5 c3 ? outstander [4k\]: ah krakengo [1d\]: even amateur are not tricked Neospring [3k\]: d4 dont work revival [2d\]: lol GoteGote [1d\]: d4 c5 c3 b6 Chievo [3k\]: combined theyre almost lee sedol jankenpopp: so mean.. Neospring [3k\]: d4 good for b krakengo [1d\]: w C5 =p fruitdrops [3k\]: c 5 maybe? krakengo [1d\]: lol GoteGote [1d\]: c5 here? makes miai b7 and f1? DrZoom [8k\]: d4 B->c3 ? Nouli [-\]: if C5 is sente just play it no ? ] ;W[ds]C[Nyanbot: i win elder [10k?\]: d4 w c5 b c3 w gote... outstander [4k\]: what use is b7 gote? Nyanbot: f9 Nyanbot: ah wait Neospring [3k\]: d1 better then c5 Rocker [4d\]: h18 like a man MrShintou [-\]: iagree w/ f9 DrZoom [8k\]: now d4 krakengo [1d\]: stop with the 2nd line now Rocker [4d\]: pros dont play f9 ish moves DrZoom [8k\]: k10 Nyanbot: i dont know what to play Nyanbot: i would f9 if blitz Rocker [4d\]: hmm Nouli [-\]: M16 Pedro6548 [11k\]: g9 Woodstock [-\]: very interesting, nyanbot Fatality [7k\]: c5 revival [2d\]: d9? vesudeva [6k\]: w c5 agui [4k\]: d6 Pedro6548 [11k\]: what is better? g9 or f9? Rocker [4d\]: they r supa stinge about mokus........ i dun think b will f9........ Nyanbot: yeah maybe DrZoom [8k\]: b7? sansanman: if c5 then b7 which makes black connect in gote Nyanbot: im tired of watchin the game... and need eat something Nyanbot: cu DrZoom [8k\]: Anyone coffee? DrZoom [8k\]: just brewed one Fatality [7k\]: thx sansanman sansanman: your welcome sansanman: but im only 7k too channel777 [1k\]: I need one cup too fruitdrops [3k\]: send here some too Tsuijin [1d\]: we need a ko Tsuijin [1d\]: somewhere DrZoom [8k\]: hehe Ophelia [-\]: haha Fatality [7k\]: r17 if it's whites turn Ophelia [-\]: a move above the fifth line might be fun. sutex [5k\]: hello Fatality [7k\]: hello sutex ] ;B[ek]C[Rocker [4d\]: hmmmmmm Toge [5k\]: d2 looks awful. Just reduces own liberties? alright: where u live doc?,..:) Rocker [4d\]: now h18 Rocker [4d\]: camong!!!!!!! revival [2d\]: is h18 biggest for w? USGO1 [-\]: Kim has started playing with his fan more, opening and closing one end of it while waiting for Black's move. As Black moved, he snapped it shut and set it down to study his move. ] ;W[dn]C[deft [4d\]: D6 is weird mygoban [5k\]: Rocker [4d\]: pros dont play f9 ish moves outstander [4k\]: f7 Tsuijin [1d\]: yah E9 not same as F9 krakengo [1d\]: i thought b had to.. H18 ] ;B[ej]C[samoproba [6k\]: f9 would take them above the 5th line Ophelia [-\]: I swear part of being a pro is expert fan expressions. mahatma [1k\]: time? Fatality [7k\]: please bet for the first move beyond 5th line MrShintou [-\]: p9 fractic [2k\]: they'll never play there GoteGote [1d\]: f6 fractic [2k\]: i'll just all be dame GoteGote [1d\]: or g7 deft [4d\]: W has to answer or C11 will be super painful krakengo [1d\]: this shows why no B12 earlier GoteGote [1d\]: can black cut? revival [2d\]: B11 seems misplaced now GoteGote [1d\]: e6? krakengo [1d\]: ok ? fractic [2k\]: b12 is better then c11 i think slinky [-\]: wow still going on DrZoom [8k\]: what's about the time? Ophelia [-\]: p11 area is my bet krakengo [1d\]: w, B12 honte (mais serait honteux ?) DragonWolf [5k\]: I said P11 :) fractic [2k\]: i don't think white will tenuki ] ;W[bh]C[mahatma [1k\]: usgo, whats the time? Ophelia [-\]: no, but I think that will be the first move above the fifth line :) Fatality [7k\]: white cannot tenuki I think krakengo [1d\]: hehehe krakengo [1d\]: he accepted the honte (bad pun) carla [7k\]: 19:08 GMT DragonWolf [5k\]: P11 for black? or Q10? USGO1 [-\]: Time Check - W: 36 minutes remaining, B: 31 minutes. DragonWolf [5k\]: or is bottom left still not settled revival [2d\]: this move strengthens the white group at the top krakengo [1d\]: yes MrShintou [-\]: 3hrs used already and only move 68.. this is slow even for pros. krakengo [1d\]: the middlegame is gonna be tense deft [4d\]: important game ] ;B[eh]C[Ophelia [-\]: we may see some fast fighting in the center. get ready USGO. ;) Woodstock [-\]: this is middle game already Tsuijin [1d\]: we need 9p recorder krakengo [1d\]: i didn't say otherwise revival [2d\]: E13 krakengo [1d\]: just getting tense Ophelia [-\]: we have an awesome recorder. USGO1 [-\]: I always try to be ready. Caffeine helps greatly. DragonWolf [5k\]: Pro-plus HowToLose [5k\]: lol DragonWolf [5k\]: :P Fatality [7k\]: hehe USGO1 [-\]: The endgames are always fun. GoteGote [1d\]: h18 looks more and more urgent Cz [-\]: usgo1 is clearly the real pro around here Ho [5k\]: d11 ] ;W[di]C[krakengo [1d\]: very good !! Rocker [4d\]: strong ma1ky [2k\]: good shout fractic [2k\]: h18 now? DragonWolf [5k\]: yeah I think USGO makes these games up off the top of their head DragonWolf [5k\]: :P krakengo [1d\]: yes krakengo [1d\]: experiment in credulity AutoAtari [3k?\]: f13 fruitdrops [3k\]: w needs points to catch up butwhere can he get them? krakengo [1d\]: play random stuff, people will see great play Pedro6548 [11k\]: h7 maybe? GoteGote [1d\]: first a move in h7 area Fatality [7k\]: h18 Nealo [10k\]: what is your ranking USGO1? Fatality [7k\]: e13 also nice I think USGO1 [-\]: Yin has the habit of straightening the stones on the board while thinking about the next move. HowToLose [5k\]: lol MrShintou [-\]: good just not me ] ;B[hb]C[HowToLose [5k\]: wouldn't that disrupt the other player, though? Gresil [8k\]: "straightening" krakengo [1d\]: bad haboit Nealo [10k\]: USGO1 are you watching the tournament in person? Cz [-\]: usgo1 thinks... "stop blocking the freaking board with your hand moron" DragonWolf [5k\]: not that bad if he's 3p :P antipanda [8k\]: is that allowed? krakengo [1d\]: you can be 9p and still not know how to behave ] ;W[gj]C[Woodstock [-\]: sure, if it's on your thinking time Tsuijin [1d\]: woah Chievo [3k\]: I wonder how much yesterday's games have affected myungwang Fatality [7k\]: !!! Tsuijin [1d\]: some sort of pincer ma1ky [2k\]: -.- Chievo [3k\]: missclick Ophelia [-\]: I lose carla [7k\]: Yin should straighten c4 to d4 USGO1 [-\]: This move played very forcefully on the board by Kim. krakengo [1d\]: like singing random nursery rhyme aloud during a title game HowToLose [5k\]: lol antipanda [8k\]: I alwasys thought that you were allowed to think all the time Fatality [7k\]: we're beyond fifth line Nealo [10k\]: man this is an awesome commentator antipanda [8k\]: not just when your clock is going Nealo [10k\]: *Yin plays this move while adjusting his underpants HowToLose [5k\]: antipanda: they hire psychics to make sure you think ONLY when it's your turn revival [2d\]: no you arent allowed to think during your opponents turn AutoAtari [3k?\]: you must shut down your brain Sincere [3k\]: *waits for o4 cut* Tsuijin [1d\]: black is the never ending running dragon ] ;B[gl] ;W[ei]C[USGO1 [-\]: It doesn't matter much, but my rating is 6k AGA. Experience recording games is helpful as well. Sincere [3k\]: i dont think e11 is worth it... krakengo [1d\]: H18 will look slow soon HowToLose [5k\]: cool Rocker [4d\]: n17 krakengo [1d\]: so, must J17 now =p EagleHelm [11k\]: do you have to be a member of the aga to volunteer? krakengo [1d\]: N17, ok Chievo [3k\]: lol nealo, yin isnt the same person as nadal krakengo [1d\]: and die at bottom left krakengo [1d\]: fair game Sincere [3k\]: w will j8 next turn Nealo [10k\]: true true USGO1 you're doing a fine job I should say Nealo [10k\]: and though I'm a 10k Rocker [4d\]: j8 is a safe move Nealo [10k\]: my experience complimenting commentators is all I need USGO1 [-\]: Generally, people attending the congress are AGA members, but you don't have to be. You just have to be willing to work a lot. Sincere [3k\]: j8 is sente also Nealo [10k\]: I almost volunteered Fatality [7k\]: what does j8 do? Nealo [10k\]: I am in Portland Nealo [10k\]: but ultimately didn't go Chievo [3k\]: having said that, myungwang is far better than nadal will ever be Cz [-\]: at tennis? EagleHelm [11k\]: I've volunteered at comicon I know working conventions is hard Sincere [3k\]: o_O... outstander [4k\]: hmm... prob not at tennis WWSD [1k\]: why are you talking about the tennis player indianayk [5d\]: h18 was huge. Didn't w have a chance to play there in sente? seishiro [15k\]: yes MrShintou [-\]: indianayk so was B14 =d and black shoudl have played there in sene. krakengo [1d\]: tennis is a bit boring compared to go, imo lob: has myungwan even won a won tournament Nealo [10k\]: haha WWSD [1k\]: ... fractic [2k\]: h18 wouldn't be sente for white ] ;B[ic]C[krakengo [1d\]: w H18 would be submissive whatsover lob: *major tournament outstander [4k\]: ouch seishiro [15k\]: but it would be a good move krakengo [1d\]: aaaah my call again revival [2d\]: i like this move krakengo [1d\]: fair game now fractic [2k\]: fighting spirit krakengo [1d\]: kill USGO1 [-\]: Nealo, there is still time to come by. Tournament games go on into Saturday. MrShintou [-\]: white cannot win this game any longer. seishiro [15k\]: where Cz [-\]: now white just wants to destroy black and laugh at him Pedro6548 [11k\]: what's sente? slinky [-\]: intence o.o fractic [2k\]: senseis.xmp.net/?sente krakengo [1d\]: you are too easily afraid by opponent territory ] ;W[rp]C[seishiro [15k\]: you dont know sente? Pedro6548 [11k\]: humm Pedro6548 [11k\]: thank Sincere [3k\]: o-O... Fatality [7k\]: can white sacrifice the top? Pedro6548 [11k\]: i knoew intence WWSD [1k\]: O6 Cz [-\]: ok maybe not. maybe he just wants to confuse all the spectators seishiro [15k\]: i doubt that Sincere [3k\]: w can sacrifice h17... Pedro6548 [11k\]: ;D USGO1 [-\]: Yin has left the board again. Cz [-\]: yeah.. i would too fractic [2k\]: w can't really sacrifice l17 though Chievo [3k\]: I was talking about tennis, because nealo made a remark about adjusting underwear MrShintou [-\]: but its yin's turn. seishiro [15k\]: he decreas yin and increased yang Cz [-\]: "what is this junk... ugh" krakengo [1d\]: this is sente now Sincere [3k\]: nope.. krakengo [1d\]: yes Nealo [10k\]: haha WWSD [1k\]: ooh nadal does always have a wedgie indianayk [5d\]: w is looking to cut at o4 after attacking the big dragon Nealo [10k\]: oh I didn't catch that Nealo [10k\]: is tennis on right now? USGO1 [-\]: Yin has returned with a fresh cup of water. Nealo [10k\]: I saw the last 2 days of US Open last year WWSD [1k\]: are ypou sure its a fresh cup? Nealo [10k\]: it was great Nealo [10k\]: haha Rocker [4d\]: B MUST N2 elfking [6k\]: hah DragonWolf [5k\]: USGO: Just don't do commentary when he goes to the bathroom krakengo [1d\]: threatening a splitting attack liberaji [2k\]: so these are the only undefeated players? seishiro [15k\]: i think so Sincere [3k\]: s3 is better WWSD [1k\]: rocker why not o6 Sincere [3k\]: n2 = one eye still Chievo [3k\]: he cant dragonwolf Gaxx [3k\]: USGO1, where are you getting your info from? Are you watching this on TV or something? krakengo [1d\]: you don't want to have 2 problems DragonWolf [5k\]: N2 ends in gote.. is there not ab better move? seishiro [15k\]: no nee d for fake eye Chievo [3k\]: this is server which will get you booted Pedro6548 [11k\]: p4? Neospring [3k\]: his there gaxx.. MrShintou [-\]: r1 krakengo [1d\]: w has too much influence for b to afford Gaxx [3k\]: oh, in person? Rocker [4d\]: O6 IS VERY BAD , O5 IS MUCH BETTER Neospring [3k\]: yes USGO1 [-\]: Since many of the other games in the Open are finishing up, there are more players wandering the room observing these games. MrShintou [-\]: i like R1. ] ;B[mr] ;W[lr] ;B[ns]C[fractic [2k\]: R1? Sincere [3k\]: well either way w is going to cut Rocker [4d\]: MUHAHAHA Sincere [3k\]: or not DragonWolf [5k\]: :P Snaga [1d\]: cut? Neospring [3k\]: r1 = died DragonWolf [5k\]: will white cut nw? Sincere [3k\]: h8 first? USGO1 [-\]: I am sitting at the same table as the players, with the board just to my right. WWSD [1k\]: still rocker why not run out to middle? Rocker [4d\]: I SAID N2 IS A MUST , NOTHING ELSE krakengo [1d\]: that's done, ok now krakengo [1d\]: stop shouting liberaji [2k\]: some1 ban rocker Tower [3d\]: looks like black has the point lead Zephon [2k\]: lol seishiro [15k\]: s3 is better slinky [-\]: *pets USGO krakengo [1d\]: N2 was correct Tsuijin [1d\]: i wanna see j9 Neospring [3k\]: *kicks slinky down the stais Cz [-\]: yeah, rocker is too loud Neospring [3k\]: stairs* melmac: w far behind in secure territory mosk2: I don't think W will cut. Sincere [3k\]: rocker is fine DragonWolf [5k\]: man I wish I could count like dans... I can't even get close to working out who's ahead seishiro [15k\]: white should play s3 Sincere [3k\]: as long as we're discussing the game :D krakengo [1d\]: b far behind in attacking potential edowaado [17k\]: what do P means? mosk2: w is preparing for the middle Ophelia [-\]: 1,2,3... Sincere [3k\]: ... Pedro6548 [11k\]: h8? Cz [-\]: but it hurts my eyes Tower [3d\]: aim at O4 maybe, P4 screws it up a bit but maybe some points in there Woodstock [-\]: professional dan ranks melmac: bet b win this liberaji [2k\]: W could furst attack left and then cut at O4 krakengo [1d\]: balance of territory is one thing, but balance of power exists too mosk2: w groups are solid krakengo [1d\]: but many do like it doesn't exists Sincere [3k\]: h8 Sincere [3k\]: or something Rocker [4d\]: N17 seishiro [15k\]: white may try to catch up instead of blackk leading to white Sincere [3k\]: n17 seems too slow Chievo [3k\]: who says w behind krakengo [1d\]: you're not going to N17 anytime soon, after you ignored H18 for G10 liberaji [2k\]: B leads in terirtory WWSD [1k\]: N17 is big Sincere [3k\]: its big Sincere [3k\]: not urgent krakengo [1d\]: N17 is off focus krakengo [1d\]: yes Sincere [3k\]: j8 area is urgent and big seishiro [15k\]: white can take the middle instead Chievo [3k\]: N17 is actually quite urgent fractic [2k\]: white kinda needs the middle Woodstock [-\]: there won't be many points in the centre Sincere [3k\]: hah fractic [2k\]: where else is he going to make territory Kael [2d\]: I think P11 area is bigger? B can expand so much there seishiro [15k\]: its kind of risky thought Sincere [3k\]: well krakengo [1d\]: if w N17, i'll resign from go for 6 months Rocker [4d\]: N17 is big Sincere [3k\]: h8-j8 area is sente Sincere [3k\]: because black needs to live racine [2d\]: w needs to kill b Cz [-\]: now i hope he plays n17 Sincere [3k\]: white was probably just buyin time to think of how to kill Fatality [7k\]: n17 Chievo [3k\]: I think the 4 bot games yesterday have made kim tired ADG [6k\]: What could white possibly achieve with H8 ? Sincere [3k\]: how many did he win? Chievo [3k\]: and thats why he isnt doing as well as he can Chievo [3k\]: 2 Sincere [3k\]: seal in sente,,> Cz [-\]: please usgo1, play n17 until krakengo is not paying attention seishiro [15k\]: double sente Zephon [2k\]: or perhaps he still thinks he is playing mogotitan racine [2d\]: lol outstander [4k\]: where are w's points, that's what i want to know HowToLose [5k\]: right, lower left, and mid left slinky [-\]: go black! krakengo [1d\]: w has a big corner from M3 to B14 up to K10 slinky [-\]: we alll want black to win! Sincere [3k\]: w has a 1 corner... indianayk [5d\]: w must attack and gain before N17. N17 now will be b's game Sincere [3k\]: and side cliftut [14k?\]: I like j8. Is it better than h8, or just different? Sincere [3k\]: b has 1 huge corner Sincere [3k\]: :D ADG [6k\]: h8 may be sente, but, white doesn't seal anything , there won't be many points in the center (IMHO) Sincere [3k\]: or, i guess 2 huge corners H2He [7k\]: come on 8p dont need points to win:) fractic [2k\]: the top left isn't that big Rocker [4d\]: w might r17 before n17? Sincere [3k\]: better than ketting black just jump in easy hihf [1k\]: i think white is better outstander [4k\]: lol rocker krakengo [1d\]: H8 helps b more than J8 Sincere [3k\]: yeah, j8 seems better Sincere [3k\]: does b even have one eye in there? racine [2d\]: J8 too soft? Sincere [3k\]: well krakengo [1d\]: boshi is seldom soft Pedro6548 [11k\]: o5 maybe? Sincere [3k\]: j8 h9 j10 Rocker [4d\]: h8 if w attacks! Sincere [3k\]: w becomes huge sapphire [3k\]: being 3k I'd try to do some prep to rip off the UR corner ] ;W[pg]C[Chievo [3k\]: where is this boshi what you speak of? cliftut [14k?\]: j8 is certainly where black would want to go... if black was me. Cz [-\]: that is a misclick krakengo [1d\]: contact tends to help opponent, of course there are exceptions, but i refuse to read with a hangover Sincere [3k\]: no Chievo [3k\]: lol cz Cz [-\]: please put at the correct spot Cz [-\]: n17 ] ;B[qg]C[Chievo [3k\]: that move is typical pro move krakengo [1d\]: J8 is a boshi liberaji [2k\]: this is standard outstander [4k\]: q11 fractic [2k\]: can white end in sente in the top right? Sincere [3k\]: the problem is Sincere [3k\]: q11 isnt sente racine [2d\]: that prepares the attack of E7 group Rocker [4d\]: q11 krakengo [1d\]: Q13 is a leaning attack / support for L17 ADG [6k\]: Come on, wasn't white expecting that ? outstander [4k\]: omg.... b's top right is massive Pedro6548 [11k\]: q12 racine [2d\]: in 79 moves b dies because of Q13 Chievo [3k\]: woah lemmming [7k\]: how is q11 not sente? Sincere [3k\]: how is it sente..? Chievo [3k\]: b's fast response says something Sincere [3k\]: -_-... Chievo [3k\]: b is confident of his response WWSD [1k\]: it means he needs to get more water Sincere [3k\]: lol cliftut [14k?\]: q13 creates good influence for white. krakengo [1d\]: yes: "i don't want to think, that's your job" Neospring [3k\]: diaria lemmming [7k\]: looks like it needs an answer to me.. dunno krakengo [1d\]: ;-) racine [2d\]: Chievo : only one possible response... Sincere [3k\]: w should j8 first ] ;W[ke]C[Cz [-\]: probably they spiked the water Chievo [3k\]: thats why I said it krakengo [1d\]: ooooh Sincere [3k\]: O-O.... krakengo [1d\]: phew racine [2d\]: w going for a moyo Cz [-\]: you are a lucky guy krakengo :( Sincere [3k\]: hes going for 2 moyos Sincere [3k\]: :D Pedro6548 [11k\]: p11 lemmming [7k\]: moyonic outstander [4k\]: wont work ADG [6k\]: nope, 3rd and 5th line are lines of territory, not influence.. cliftut [14k?\]: bi-moyo! racine [2d\]: ADG : L15 is not territory racine [2d\]: lol krakengo [1d\]: i don't see a moyo Sincere [3k\]: i guess no one expected l15..? slinky [-\]: USGO how much time is left o.O Chievo [3k\]: let me put it like this flatchest [1k\]: i did indianayk [5d\]: guess w didn't see a clear kill Sincere [3k\]: well racine [2d\]: krakengo : Q11 sente, an implicit wall around H8 ADG [6k\]: frankly n17 seemed a little too overconcentrated to me Sincere [3k\]: if b j8 now racine [2d\]: and the moyo appears :p Sincere [3k\]: wouldnt it be over? krakengo [1d\]: N17 M16 surely ] ;B[ie]C[outstander [4k\]: what moyo ffs outstander [4k\]: lol Sincere [3k\]: after this exchange of course Rocker [4d\]: l13 Chievo [3k\]: ghahaha Chievo [3k\]: dont say ffs on KGS outstander Sincere [3k\]: O_O Sincere [3k\]: brb outstander [4k\]: sorry Pedro6548 [11k\]: h14? outstander [4k\]: but you said it too! outstander [4k\]: ban Chievo [3k\]: but I said it to correct him Cz [-\]: double ban cliftut [14k?\]: j10?! >w< AutoAtari [3k?\]: for flower's smell outstander [4k\]: don't talk about people in third person while they're present... manners on KGS plz, chievo liberaji [2k\]: is outstandre Ms. Manners? Neospring [3k\]: ffs shtup both of u Chievo [3k\]: stop it neosping proutoz0re: i don't see how white can win this game now, he looks too much behind outstander [4k\]: agreed prout Rocker [4d\]: L13!!!!!!!!!! fruitdrops [3k\]: Q13 will be the winning stone WWSD [1k\]: white has to rock the dragon Chievo [3k\]: no rocker ] ;W[bm]C[flatchest [1k\]: patrickb ;( Ophelia [-\]: ty Chievo [3k\]: about time outstander [4k\]: aiming for the cut indianayk [5d\]: here it comes outstander [4k\]: won't work though... b's not stupid AutoAtari [3k?\]: aiming for the kill Sincere [3k\]: all or nothing ADG [6k\]: Yeah pro's always use the strangest way to attack outstander [4k\]: if it was gonna work, he would have played it ages ago krakengo [1d\]: this moyo has 4 doors, hard to close all outstander [4k\]: that just means its not a moyo krak Pedro6548 [11k\]: great battle now :D Neospring [3k\]: pro's dont moyo liberaji [2k\]: yeah what's White's plan? krakengo [1d\]: have b run and fix L15 in the process Chievo [3k\]: not the strangest, the one that works WWSD [1k\]: h7 Sincere [3k\]: the problem is Sincere [3k\]: w has no points Sincere [3k\]: and cant get enough unless he kills flatchest [1k\]: kill wat? flatchest [1k\]: lol krakengo [1d\]: points will come, B7 a start Chievo [3k\]: well he is working on it sutex [5k\]: some b stones:-P krakengo [1d\]: you don't need to gain 30 points at a time Chievo [3k\]: B7 is lee sedol like aggressive indianayk [5d\]: USGO01, time? USGO1 [-\]: Time Check - W: 20 minutes remaining, B: 15 minutes. Rocker [4d\]: K8 FUR SHOW Chievo [3k\]: really animal attack indianayk [5d\]: thx Rocker [4d\]: J8 * DragonWolf [5k\]: Rocker, shouldn't he save those 3 stones? Chievo [3k\]: mooo liberaji [2k\]: yesterday Feng Yun's game was great Sincere [3k\]: black has at least 50 points on the board Sincere [3k\]: i doubt white has even 40 flatchest [1k\]: did feng yun win? Chievo [3k\]: b has no eyes for now Rocker [4d\]: dragon its safe fractic [2k\]: i don't think black has 50 Fatality [7k\]: r17 is still playable so black has not that much Cloudwall [-\]: yes, she did liberaji [2k\]: 50 is a bit optimistic imho flatchest [1k\]: ^^ Sincere [3k\]: hm Chievo [3k\]: where did his eyes go WiseGuy [2d?\]: I get 43 DragonWolf [5k\]: ah yeah Chievo [3k\]: with only 1 move it disappeared MXHero [-\]: i don't think r17 gets much aji anymore krakengo [1d\]: "so many stones, it can't die" Sincere [3k\]: well maybe 40, i guess h17 area is still questionable krakengo [1d\]: what a cheap reasoning nickwasy [11k\]: much more than 40 AGA rules, of course Sincere [3k\]: and b has m16 peak Rocker [4d\]: J8!! LEIBNIZ [4k\]: B7 wakes up dragon Sincere [3k\]: peek* AutoAtari [3k?\]: h6 WiseGuy [2d?\]: It doesn't matter what rules you use to count, what matters is the difference in points. And rather than counting stones on the board, I count territory. DragonWolf [5k\]: h6 feels slow DragonWolf [5k\]: and builds up whites infleunce ] ;B[fj]C[Chievo [3k\]: OHH Chievo [3k\]: nice shape krakengo [1d\]: aaaaaaaargh indianayk [5d\]: i 'm sure the whole dragon will not die, but which tail it must offer for w flatchest [1k\]: empty triangle XDDDDDDDDDDDD MXHero [-\]: b has more captures than w, so b is winning fujichan [2k\]: OMG ADG [6k\]: yeah, who saw that one comin' ? HowToLose [5k\]: MXHero: Komi, W is winning kvartaali [4k\]: I must say lower left + b14 and s4 really make out whites style flatchest [1k\]: doesnt b know that emptry triangle is bad shape Sanyel [-\]: OMFG AutoAtari [3k?\]: pro move :) krakengo [1d\]: i could not think of it Fatality [7k\]: black needs to learn about good shape :P Ophelia [-\]: beautiful shape ] ;W[fi]C[WWSD [1k\]: f9 to get rid of the ugly shape! Sincere [3k\]: wow krakengo [1d\]: the nausea is too strong about such moves DragonWolf [5k\]: G9? HowToLose [5k\]: lol empty triangle > dango DragonWolf [5k\]: or connect Sincere [3k\]: im not even sure if w has 30 points Rocker [4d\]: VERY GOOD eye shape Sincere [3k\]: >_> WWSD [1k\]: full square is better than empty triangle Chievo [3k\]: this is not empty fsong2 [1d\]: go yin kuo Pedro6548 [11k\]: g9 Chievo [3k\]: this is full triangle Rocker [4d\]: g99999 Chievo [3k\]: filled krakengo [1d\]: from the start b is refusing to make shape ] ;B[hj]C[fractic [2k\]: it's not a full triangle Rocker [4d\]: !!!!!!! fsong2 [1d\]: omg Pedro6548 [11k\]: good WiseGuy [2d?\]: You fail again. fractic [2k\]: nice AutoAtari [3k?\]: shape is for amateurs :p indianayk [5d\]: b needs to have space to live. the shape should not be matter at this point Sincere [3k\]: b is too pro MrShintou [-\]: no b is three pro Singer [10k\]: Can you be too pro? Sincere [3k\]: hm krakengo [1d\]: shape always matter Sincere [3k\]: not sure PowRanger [9k?\]: lol MXHero [-\]: if b gets g9 he has good shape WWSD [1k\]: is G9 not good enough for black? Pedro6548 [11k\]: h9 krakengo [1d\]: forced into bad shape ? bad pos fsong2 [1d\]: i know yin kuo Woodstock [-\]: G9 is pushing from behind andrushek [10k\]: EVEN GAME?? Sincere [3k\]: if b gets g9 Rocker [4d\]: d9 Sincere [3k\]: game is over krakengo [1d\]: except in small endgame trambeto [?\]: should this be an olympic sport? HowToLose [5k\]: it is HowToLose [5k\]: they just don't know it ] ;W[gk]C[flatchest [1k\]: lol andrushek [10k\]: ANY HANDYCAP? ] ;B[hk]C[flatchest [1k\]: 5 AutoAtari [3k?\]: kibitz is flatchest [1k\]: 8d give 5 handi to 3d Fatality [7k\]: professional kibitz should be olympic HowToLose [5k\]: for a game that was supposedly one of the greatest things a chinese could learn, I'm surprised they're not including it fractic [2k\]: i'll take any kind of payed kibitzing Neospring [3k\]: even game Sincere [3k\]: heh ] ;W[hi]C[fujichan [2k\]: .... MXHero [-\]: power square! Sincere [3k\]: lol fujichan [2k\]: it's a tournament, internationnal krakengo [1d\]: do it Rocker [4d\]: H8!!!!!! fujichan [2k\]: no handicap .... Sincere [3k\]: only move -_- fujichan [2k\]: pffffff Bierce [1d\]: how is their times? Chievo [3k\]: w has also good moves lately proutoz0re: g12 ma1ky [2k\]: andyrushek look where the handicap stones would be if there were any.. Chievo [3k\]: surely this battle is fierce MXHero [-\]: fill the empty triangle, b! liberaji [2k\]: J7? Iliusha [3d\]: betwen 8p and 3p is'nt even 2 handi stones flatchest [1k\]: dango dango dango!!!!!! sutex [5k\]: dangooooo flatchest [1k\]: do it krakengo [1d\]: remember the power square in the corner last night ? sutex [5k\]: Who's that hero? Shusaku? Sai? No! It's the Dango-Man!! Chievo [3k\]: 8p and 3p is almost the same, only difference 8p usually gets further in tournaments holynec [2k?\]: dangomouse?! PowRanger [9k?\]: p11 Sincere [3k\]: ... MXHero [-\]: ironically, that's the only difference that matters :) Rocker [4d\]: H8!!!!!!! indianayk [5d\]: generally, no 9p can give 2H to 1p MrShintou [-\]: indian... Sincere [3k\]: i heard in japan you can :D MrShintou [-\]: there are 9p and there are 9p. MrShintou [-\]: this is dreadfully complex. Sincere [3k\]: basically terrorist [5k\]: but even people like cho U lose to 7P and stuff DrZoom [8k\]: how much time have they left? Sincere [3k\]: if you arent 1 dan by the age of 10 Cloudwall [-\]: actually there's an event at the Nihon Kiin every year where the 9p's will give handicap stones to the new pros and see how far they can go, starting with two and then going up if they win Sincere [3k\]: ur never becoming pro pasky [1k\]: terrorist: if the result is determined by te rank difference, why even bother playing? krakengo [1d\]: i don't care PowRanger [9k?\]: a 2p korean recently won second at samsung cup :x flatchest [1k\]: lol Sincere [3k\]: whats the farthest cloud? zxcsdf: whay dont you just be quiet and focus on the game? -_- flatchest [1k\]: new korean pros too strong krakengo [1d\]: i don't wanna be a pro of anything Sincere [3k\]: well Sincere [3k\]: that just means the 2p will become a 3p soon ] ;B[hl]C[Sincere [3k\]: :D Cloudwall [-\]: well, about 3 years ago, a 1p went all the way to 4 stones, it was a huge embarassment and it made the papers here MrShintou [-\]: my guess krakengo [1d\]: the troll got one more Rocker [4d\]: 8P and 3P difference is who becam pro how mych earlier , OK?? Chievo [3k\]: lol cloudwall liberaji [2k\]: what's the promotion system in Korea? Sincere [3k\]: LOL sapphire [3k\]: cloud interesting story Sincere [3k\]: thats funny krakengo [1d\]: we don't care Sincere [3k\]: wait, did he lose at 4 stones? outstander [4k\]: l17 looks so wrong.. Sincere [3k\]: or just got up to 4 stones krakengo [1d\]: we don't care about the pro world, just the game terrorist [5k\]: Im just comenting on how pros are close, gosh Cloudwall [-\]: good, krakengo. it's called censor. use it. fractic [2k\]: losing at 3 strones is awefull allready flatchest [1k\]: yes plz DrZoom [8k\]: Does anyone know much time they have left? Nyanbot: i see, e9 was the shape indianayk [5d\]: 2H was the announced handicap in old days. but today, after all those training to be a pro, 2H not likely Iliusha [3d\]: o18 ? ] ;W[en]C[ADG [6k\]: yeah, apparently no one here understand what both player are after... Chievo [3k\]: to get to pro you already have to have insane strength Chievo [3k\]: so one of those weak fish getting through is spectactular Sincere [3k\]: heh YouWish [1k\]: wow YouWish [1k\]: that game is so.. YouWish [1k\]: sloww Sincere [3k\]: w wants that nice chunk on the left YouWish [1k\]: about 4 hours liberaji [2k\]: not mush time left... Chievo [3k\]: I hope soon into byo yomi Chievo [3k\]: it should be exciting ] ;B[fn]C[fractic [2k\]: they shouldn't have more then 8 minutes left Fatality [7k\]: about 10 min for both players left liberaji [2k\]: so USGO is sitting there with a laptop and recodrding mvoves? ] ;W[dm]C[MrShintou [-\]: yeah ] ;B[dl] ;W[fm] ;B[el]C[Fatality [7k\]: ko! DragonWolf [5k\]: is D8 not worth it for white? (before D7? cliftut [14k?\]: Nice cut Fatality [7k\]: -.- ] ;W[ho] ;B[go] ;W[hn]C[Fatality [7k\]: nice shapes -.-* ma1ky [2k\]: who said empty triangles were weak? Tsuijin [1d\]: run dragon run! Tsuijin [1d\]: white has big sword terrorist [5k\]: Probability of G&&... 100% liberaji [2k\]: the battle of empty triangels krakengo [1d\]: poor, poor b andrushek [10k\]: is black getting toasted? Fatality [7k\]: g7 Kael [2d\]: g6 or g7 is an interesting question USGO1 [-\]: Time Check - W: 16 minutes remaining, B: 5 minutes. DragonWolf [5k\]: does black still have no eyes? oibbi [1d\]: g6 grants black an eye ] ;B[gn]C[Tsuijin [1d\]: black has a half eye Tsuijin [1d\]: err one eye outstander [4k\]: what's the byo yomi? Tsuijin [1d\]: =) Lynx [2d\]: tight game ADG [6k\]: hey, black is far ahead in points right ? will he mind the kill ? cliftut [14k?\]: g6 for bamboo joint, I think... liberaji [2k\]: 30 sec Chievo [3k\]: woh Fatality [7k\]: are you joking ADG? krakengo [1d\]: i would die rather than play this krakengo [1d\]: hate b style Chievo [3k\]: w is so aggressive Chievo [3k\]: incredible GoFan23: black has one eye WiseGuy [2d?\]: He'd mind a 70 point kill, yes. Tsuijin [1d\]: k9 would be cool Kael [2d\]: what part of b style is bad krakengo? GoFan23: if black can live, he will have a large point advantage ADG [6k\]: i was more thinking about the four stone in h3 ADG [6k\]: but he decided to save them anyway krakengo [1d\]: i don't say it's bad, just i don't like it Rocker [4d\]: it just means u r too weak to play this kind of game in reality , krake! ] ;W[jk]C[ADG [6k\]: so now there is a lot at stake Evaugh [4k\]: if black can live im sure W has made quite some profit from it anyway liberaji [2k\]: wooo DragonWolf [5k\]: wow liberaji [2k\]: spartaaaaa LEIBNIZ [4k\]: :), i like K9 too outstander [4k\]: lol krakengo [1d\]: i mean b allowed this to happen, for the sake of H18 J17 DragonWolf [5k\]: I was thinking K10.. this looks so aggresive twintom [6k\]: this is humiliating for b DragonWolf [5k\]: is this treatehning O4? fractic [2k\]: it looks good patrickb [-\]: QUoting Rounders: "Very Aggressive" fractic [2k\]: O4 and Q11 both good for white Rocker [4d\]: TENGEN mosk2: I think w would let b escape up and then o4 would be big outstander [4k\]: j10 fractic [2k\]: of course black will escape fractic [2k\]: dragons don't die Fatality [7k\]: do you think white has a chance to kill? Pedro6548 [11k\]: the batle will develop to all the goban left side :D DragonWolf [5k\]: I die alot :( krakengo [1d\]: myth, dragons do die krakengo [1d\]: pros too okiol [5k\]: unless you attack their eyes, read harry potter trambeto [?\]: white can do it ] ;B[ij]C[AutoAtari [3k?\]: w has a dragon slayer trambeto [?\]: its his only chance flatchest [1k\]: BIG DRAGON NEVER DIE!!!!! krakengo [1d\]: eh again, Kael [2d\]: more triangles! :) okiol [5k\]: their eyes is their weakness outstander [4k\]: called that Fatality [7k\]: pros don't die, they just trade fractic [2k\]: white doesn't need to kill krakengo [1d\]: your triangle !! you love it, don't you ! fractic [2k\]: as long as his center gets big enough fractic [2k\]: and no pro would trade a dragon that big Woodstock [-\]: come on, he had one eye already...and in this space...sure he'll live Chievo [3k\]: death is upon b krakengo [1d\]: oh but yes, kill trambeto [?\]: o4 is a good trade krakengo [1d\]: why hold back outstander [4k\]: o4 not enough imho Deich [5k\]: its ot about living, its about how to attack^ Chievo [3k\]: those who say big dragons dont die, have listened to too many chinese myths LEIBNIZ [4k\]: L12 krakengo [1d\]: w is behind in cash, and hard to stand the sight of this group outstander [4k\]: besides, l17 still needs to live somehow DragonWolf [5k\]: K10? Rocker [4d\]: YES BIG DRAGO NEVER DIES IT ONLY HURTS Pedro6548 [11k\]: f4 two eye USGO1 [-\]: Myungwan Kim was just opening and closig his fan under the table Chievo [3k\]: ahhah Pedro6548 [11k\]: f4 and f3 Chievo [3k\]: hahahaha fractic [2k\]: f4 doesn't make an eye MrShintou [-\]: but patrick his capslock button is broken :( Chievo [3k\]: pros who are into fashion okiol [5k\]: i think rocker is most important and the caps makes me find his comments easier, it's nice flatchest [1k\]: yea flatchest [1k\]: rocker strong Chievo [3k\]: yes rocker is a hero LEIBNIZ [4k\]: I dig the Rocker too outstander [4k\]: indeed MrShintou [4d\]: so many empty triangles. Chievo [3k\]: but the fan thing is really cool, now I have become fan of kiom Fatality [7k\]: you find then by looking for "Rocker [4d\]: " ^^ outstander [4k\]: he's the only dan that talks more than kyus andrushek [10k\]: The go Kiblitzing Hero! Lynx [2d\]: k12! USGO1 [-\]: Time Check - W: 12 minutes, B: 2 minutes Rocker [4d\]: eh why i only get the bold letters , while flatchest gets none!? sory flt , just wondering Chievo [3k\]: of kim* krakengo [1d\]: K12 Lynx [2d\]: flatchest is cooler zxcsdf: how much is byo? fractic [2k\]: L11 Chievo [3k\]: fan of kim because of his fan* Chievo [3k\]: hard to say krakengo [1d\]: maybe outstander [4k\]: w should go for +time! Deich [5k\]: stop crying rocker pls and be a bit more punk krakengo [1d\]: use your time well w USGO1 [-\]: The byo-yomi is 5 periods of 30 seconds krakengo [1d\]: please please fractic [2k\]: how much time is left USGO? Rocker [4d\]: i mm being discriminated!? sutex [5k\]: read above Deich [5k\]: he just said# sansanman: w 11 b2 MrShintou [4d\]: b=46, w = 29? MrShintou [4d\]: not ccounting komi ] ;W[if]C[krakengo [1d\]: aaaar ! cliftut [14k?\]: He shut the door! krakengo [1d\]: big cage ! Paddlefoot [1d\]: w needs to profit from b's weak group outstander [4k\]: ignore? krakengo [1d\]: b is beneath the sector line now liberaji [2k\]: good timing for W krakengo [1d\]: must act outstander [4k\]: if b responds, w k12 ==> my instinct krakengo [1d\]: epic move LEIBNIZ [4k\]: oou, great move! krakengo [1d\]: fills me with joy flatchest [1k\]: are these the crazy ing rules?? liberaji [2k\]: why K12 he already blocked from that side MrShintou [4d\]: now their opponent the Ing clock. Vash3G [-\]: This is using a AGA ruleset fractic [2k\]: L11 would make more sense Deich [5k\]: kgs rules fractic [2k\]: but black will probably ignore J14 ] ;B[ii]C[Chievo [3k\]: usgo which color and brand is the fan, kim is holding? liberaji [2k\]: L11 USGO1 [-\]: It is a brown wooden one, quite thick with a nice painting on it. Of course, I have no idea on where he got it from. Woodstock [-\]: don't geed, usgo Rocker [4d\]: i feel w is up by 1.5 now Woodstock [-\]: feed* sansanman: well why dont u ask him sansanman: jk =) Fokatukc [7k\]: i predict w + 0.5 liberaji [2k\]: W+R MrShintou [4d\]: i predict b+res Chievo [3k\]: hm.. outstander [4k\]: agreed shin flatchest [1k\]: fan expensive? Drachan [19k?\]: my bet goes on black. Chievo [3k\]: must be with all the money he makes, he has to set an example for us ^^ sansanman: i gonna go with black flatchest [1k\]: :O liberaji [2k\]: how old is W? flatchest [1k\]: pros must be rich proutoz0re: 30 Rocker [4d\]: 50 liberaji [2k\]: onyl 30 and 8d? DragonWolf [5k\]: Kuo is 27? DragonWolf [5k\]: 25 flatchest [1k\]: i think b is 26 flatchest [1k\]: 25 DragonWolf [5k\]: I'm 26 and I was born 82 DragonWolf [5k\]: he was born 83 Olmerek [12k?\]: Lee Sedol got his 9d having 25 as I recall Rocker [4d\]: l11 Olmerek [12k?\]: Just checked - he was 20 Rocker [4d\]: L11 ] ;W[he]C[liberaji [2k\]: eating up B's points ] ;B[je] ;W[jf]C[LEIBNIZ [4k\]: that was fast Chievo [3k\]: no this is also points for w in the making flatchest [1k\]: i think w is strong ^^ ] ;B[ki]C[sansanman: no duh Fatality [7k\]: lol Chievo [3k\]: not only reducing Rocker [4d\]: l13!!!!! USGO1 [-\]: Time Check - W: 5 minutes, B: under 1 minute left. flatchest [1k\]: :O flatchest [1k\]: how long byo-yomi? Chievo [3k\]: L11 is probably one of the most difficult moves for w he could handle at this time Toge [5k\]: 5x30 liberaji [2k\]: G16 MrShintou [4d\]: 30x5 flatchest [1k\]: omg its fast Ophelia [-\]: I wonder if they will take a lunch break? appelsap [9k\]: is this live? flatchest [1k\]: yes proutoz0re: not yet Rocker [4d\]: L13!!! liberaji [2k\]: are they allowed foods at the board? Chievo [3k\]: yes Chievo [3k\]: thats why continue walking away to not get hungry LEIBNIZ [4k\]: P11 USGO1 [-\]: Your recorder wonders about lunch as well, but this game is too much fun to leave. Olmerek [12k?\]: :) Ophelia [-\]: ^_^ liberaji [2k\]: oh they can break for lunch? Chievo [3k\]: you can do anything in your time ] ;W[hd]C[Chievo [3k\]: but time continues pebarefoot [12k\]: hang in there usgo1 sansanman: are the us open games taking place in the united states Rocker [4d\]: REcorder wants his chow no matter what ] ;B[jc]C[Paddlefoot [1d\]: ???? fractic [2k\]: that didn't really help white Woodstock [-\]: they can agree to postpone the game for lunch, halting their clocks Articuno [-\]: Ah right Kronoclast [?\]: f17 Paddlefoot [1d\]: H16 seems bad direction to me USGO1 [-\]: Kim almost played a stone, then pulled it back to rethink what he was doing. liberaji [2k\]: B corner vulnerable Paddlefoot [1d\]: I don't see it fractic [2k\]: there is no way white could kill it liberaji [2k\]: not yet... flatchest [1k\]: wat coner? proutoz0re: maybe by playing twice in a row fractic [2k\]: top left Trumelunki [4d\]: I don't see any problem in the corner Paddlefoot [1d\]: top left presumably flatchest [1k\]: i dont see it Paddlefoot [1d\]: F17 F18 fractic [2k\]: cut at L14 looks troublesome for white ADG [6k\]: no need to kill, just keep some pressure Ophelia [-\]: there's big endgame there. fractic [2k\]: yes A17 is big Paddlefoot [1d\]: perhaps Rocker [4d\]: l14 ADG [6k\]: white will settle his stones, and B will have to responde kimball [4d\]: f 17 is a problem flatchest [1k\]: :S Kronoclast [?\]: f17 f18 e17 e19 l18 USGO1 [-\]: White has just gone under one minute remaining. Rocker [4d\]: good Chievo [3k\]: did you see which area w was trying to play usgo? zxcsdf: haow many spectators they have around board? liberaji [2k\]: top duh Rocker [4d\]: it had to be 1 hour ago at least its too tedious ] ;W[kg]C[Sincere [3k\]: o17 Sincere [3k\]: :( kimball [4d\]: if b connect on the first line w can cut d 16 sente Kronoclast [?\]: protect the cut liberaji [2k\]: keep the attack going? USGO1 [-\]: both players are now in byo-yomi, so I will not have much time to talk from now on. Don't want to miss any moves... sansanman: okay DragonWolf [5k\]: L18? ] ;B[kb]C[kimball [4d\]: do your best Kronoclast [?\]: hum DragonWolf [5k\]: :) strong10k [2k\]: strong 5k fractic [2k\]: M10? LEIBNIZ [4k\]: right DragonWolf [5k\]: just lucky Javaness [-\]: black left side looks deadish ] ;W[lc]C[Chievo [3k\]: USGO1 youre doing a great job, I'm glad you were picked as recorder liberaji [2k\]: nah he wil run away ] ;B[lb]C[flatchest [1k\]: big dragon never die!!!!!!!!!! jeffywhite [7k\]: hi strong10k Rocker [4d\]: s11 liberaji [2k\]: but B will suffer Q11 or somehting Zephon [2k\]: w+81.5 jeffywhite [7k\]: we had a teaching game USGO1 [-\]: white now only has 4 periods left. ] ;W[cl]C[Paddlefoot [1d\]: byo-yomi move? danteVAM [5k\]: w+85.5 xD Zephon [2k\]: o4 is coming soon Paddlefoot [1d\]: a forcing move for time? Sincere [3k\]: its hugeee ] ;B[dk]C[Chievo [3k\]: I dont think so Uberdude [2d\]: intesresting way w settled top uising attack fractic [2k\]: it feels to soon for o4 Fatality [7k\]: w+85,5 Nyrckes [1k\]: p11 fractic [2k\]: white will probably force around N9 first liberaji [2k\]: keep attacking Chievo [3k\]: pros can blitz like the best ] ;W[hh]C[Uberdude [2d\]: m9 maybe? Zephon [2k\]: ;o Rocker [4d\]: HMMM Uberdude [2d\]: but there is hole at k7 area#\] liberaji [2k\]: W ready to make some pts thre? Paddlefoot [1d\]: seems passive fruitdrops [3k\]: was that imortant move? fractic [2k\]: that hole is not that big proutoz0re: w ready to hunt the big dragon ] ;B[lk]C[Chievo [3k\]: btw I hope they bring you some food, mr recorder Uberdude [2d\]: reverse sente is upose Kountch [2d?\]: yose has started Fatality [7k\]: I still believe in r17 fractic [2k\]: white needs to get something in the center AurelienC [3d\]: no.. only a pro fun move... fractic [2k\]: which will be very hard now :( Sincere [3k\]: heh Rocker [4d\]: NIce move jeffywhite [7k\]: jump cut appelsap [9k\]: W is 8P, b is 3P so no problem for white? ] ;W[jm]C[proutoz0re: :/ ajistorm [1k\]: w looks in bad situation Zephon [2k\]: ;o USGO1 [-\]: white is down to 3 periods now. ] ;B[mi]C[markboon [?\]: B looks a little better danteVAM [5k\]: I think is finish for W proutoz0re: o13 twintom [6k\]: but black has to make a lot dame moves now misty1 [10k\]: b+time? fractic [2k\]: white needs a good yose ajistorm [1k\]: never finished with pros, but hard ADG [6k\]: white has komi, how much is komi ? DrZoom [8k\]: 7.5 proutoz0re: 7.5 ] ;W[nc]C[Paddlefoot [1d\]: w needs good yose, a rip-off and a miscount Sincere [3k\]: monkey jump is huge jeffywhite [7k\]: why it the komi more? danteVAM [5k\]: I don't know if just a "good yose" will be enough danteVAM [5k\]: :s jeffywhite [7k\]: why not 6.5 fractic [2k\]: S11 is also big lemmming [7k\]: because rules are rules... USGO1 [-\]: white is at 2 periods liberaji [2k\]: ING rules ajistorm [1k\]: game is probably closer than it looks though DrZoom [8k\]: aga rules Sincere [3k\]: maybe just s10.. appelsap [9k\]: what about the time? Rocker [4d\]: i blame G12!!! Fatality [7k\]: white get's 7,5 points of komi Sincere [3k\]: s2 in sente markboon [?\]: N17 andrewgr [2k\]: this is US Open, not ING cup, not using ING rules jeffywhite [7k\]: i think 6.5 is enough Kountch [2d?\]: Should white play the last move in ing rules SpiderGay: s10 ] ;B[nb]C[Rocker [4d\]: H12* liberaji [2k\]: si there big difference? andrewgr [2k\]: no DrStraw [-\]: you mean the two tournaments at the congres use different rules? andrewgr [2k\]: yes ] ;W[mb] ;B[ma]C[DrStraw [-\]: how ridiculous strong10k [2k\]: does us go congress ever break 500? Ophelia [-\]: it's called sponsorship. Almdudler [3d\]: ;< ] ;W[mc]C[liberaji [2k\]: W bying more time andrewgr [2k\]: not ridiculous. The ING foundation generously donates equipment and prize money to sponsor a tournament using thier rules, why would AGA not take that offer? Almdudler [3d\]: 500 active go players for the usa Almdudler [3d\]: thats ridiculous ] ;B[ob]C[DrZoom [8k\]: Are both in Byo Yomi now? SpiderGay: its ridiculous to think that would be ridiculous DrStrawberry Naso [12k\]: zoom: yes appelsap [9k\]: no hope for W Uberdude [2d\]: andrewgr, because they insist on using rude clocks Naso [12k\]: think usgo mentioned that before ] ;W[ri]C[liberaji [2k\]: rude clocks? Rocker [4d\]: THere u go Bierce [1d\]: i count b 5 p ahead Paddlefoot [1d\]: the ing kit is weird ] ;B[rj]C[Paddlefoot [1d\]: and the rules are crazy kungfu [5k\]: end game moves kungfu [5k\]: :D ] ;W[qj]C[Uberdude [2d\]: yes the clocks make horrible noises fractic [2k\]: i don't understand the ing ko rule andrewgr [2k\]: pros from japan, china, and korea have no objection t playing using ING system, so I'll defer to their judgment Paddlefoot [1d\]: Mr. Ing was a very eccentric man ] ;B[rk]C[jeffywhite [7k\]: whats their ko rule Paddlefoot [1d\]: money speaks in many languages ] ;W[pi]C[Paddlefoot [1d\]: the ko rule is insane ADG [6k\]: pros are pros, they play for money, they won't mind rules :) liberaji [2k\]: W still trying to kill? Paddlefoot [1d\]: ing rules discriminate between a "fighting ko" jeffywhite [7k\]: what does it say strong10k [2k\]: seems like b gets point and whit doesnt with thissequence Chievo [3k\]: elaborate Paddlefoot [1d\]: and a "disturbing ko" Uberdude [2d\]: i expect some pros find the clocks annoying too ] ;B[qh] ;W[rl]C[appelsap [9k\]: any internet site explaining the ING ko rules? Paddlefoot [1d\]: a fighting ko is where life and death is involved Paddlefoot [1d\]: I think fractic [2k\]: senseis library explains the rule SpiderGay: aga rules and ing rules are just like "look, we have made our own rules for this game, we rock" Evaugh [4k\]: white gets influence for J10 group fight fruitdrops [3k\]: dont understand white fractic [2k\]: it doesn't really help much Paddlefoot [1d\]: a disturbing ko is merely for points ] ;B[rh]C[twintom [6k\]: but w gets sente jeffywhite [7k\]: show me the url please Uberdude [2d\]: i tihnk s11 was too late strong10k [2k\]: lose alot of points Paddlefoot [1d\]: you are allowed to fight a fighting ko but not a disturbing one fractic [2k\]: senseis.xmp.net fractic [2k\]: search for ing ko rule ] ;W[sk]C[andrewgr [2k\]: no w tries to kill the dragon jeffywhite [7k\]: okay andrewgr [2k\]: *now Trumelunki [4d\]: http://senseis.xmp.net/?IngRules lulubell [13k\]: that move looks desperate Uberdude [2d\]: if w s11 earlier b would not have captured giving w the thickness but now middle grup is strong ] ;B[si]C[Paddlefoot [1d\]: this means that positions can be constructed where the best move is to fill in one of your own eyes to change a disturbing ko to a fighting one so you can fight it Chievo [3k\]: what chez [21k\]: hi gorobert Rocker [4d\]: m10 Paddlefoot [1d\]: indeed Chievo [3k\]: youre making no sense at all paddle fractic [2k\]: that's insane paddlefoot Rocker [4d\]: no Paddlefoot [1d\]: the ing rules make no sense PowRanger [9k?\]: That sounds so incredibly lame :x ] ;W[oj]C[fractic [2k\]: i don't know why the rules are so insane SpiderGay: ing rules are ridiculous Paddlefoot [1d\]: my ing was an eccentric man jeffywhite [7k\]: that is gay fractic [2k\]: superko has silly side effects but it makes sense at least ] ;B[nk]C[fractic [2k\]: ing ko rule just doesn't make any sense zitoune [11k\]: is there a way to close the chat windows,? fractic [2k\]: and there are like 3 ppl in the world who understand it lulubell [13k\]: ING ko rule? Woodstock [-\]: move the chat out of frame ] ;W[ok]C[zitoune [11k\]: s Uberdude [2d\]: zitoune, yes SpiderGay: people should stick to the japanese or chinese rules only Uberdude [2d\]: click the little arros Uberdude [2d\]: arrows SpiderGay: aga, ing and new zealand rules are just fancy ] ;B[nl]C[Uberdude [2d\]: jsut below this chat box zitoune [11k\]: exuse m what is arros? Uberdude [2d\]: arrows zitoune [11k\]: tjk Ophelia [-\]: can we focus on the game please? ] ;W[lh]C[appelsap [9k\]: i read the ING ko rule on senseis library, it's horrible ADG [6k\]: is W trying to kill black ? fruitdrops [3k\]: b is alive ] ;B[li]C[ADG [6k\]: that's what i thought Rocker [4d\]: m7 fractic [2k\]: A17? ] ;W[fc]C[ADG [6k\]: so w making territory... fiftymm [11k\]: black will live, but black is not alive yet. ] ;B[fd] ;W[gc]C[Roblol [4k\]: = black alive ADG [6k\]: w going to catch up on points in yose... Chievo [3k\]: paddlefoot, could you explain to me in a demo one of these days? SpiderGay: b15 Rocker [4d\]: b15 krakengo [1d\]: tell fiftymm [11k\]: i think you misunderstand = fractic [2k\]: black has eye around N10 krakengo [1d\]: how is H18 looking now ? ] ;B[be]C[Chievo [3k\]: oh Chievo [3k\]: B is doing it again Chievo [3k\]: instead of A15 he makes bad shape krakengo [1d\]: he can't stop fractic [2k\]: i think timing on D17 was wrong krakengo [1d\]: became a style Rocker [4d\]: a15 fractic [2k\]: bad shape doesn't matter in yose ] ;W[ae]C[jer5d [6d\]: ^^ krakengo [1d\]: hane too painful ] ;B[ec]C[markboon [?\]: oops Hikaruwaya [3k?\]: yo SpiderGay: exchange ADG [6k\]: d16 ? jer5d [6d\]: yeah one corner for w Zephon [2k\]: whats bigger i wonder Rocker [4d\]: a16 fruitdrops [3k\]: d16 krakengo [1d\]: B15 really is vulgar ] ;W[rr]C[fractic [2k\]: the corner is bigger fruitdrops [3k\]: wow appelsap [9k\]: ? jer5d [6d\]: 2 corner cliftut [14k?\]: The 14k is back. Ophelia [-\]: wow Laval [4d\]: B 15 is not vulgar because it worked krakengo [1d\]: had to ignore a w hane lulubell [13k\]: what do you mean that B15 is vulgar? Bierce [1d\]: in yose its not about shape but what make most points fractic [2k\]: bad style ] ;B[qr]C[SpiderGay: forget b15 USGO1 [-\]: B has 3 periods - W has 2 periods ] ;W[fb]C[appelsap [9k\]: how long's a period? okiol [5k\]: has it happened in the cup that any of the players ran out of time? krakengo [1d\]: doesn't mean shape loses all signification Fatality [7k\]: 30s Uberdude [2d\]: m3 group doesn't have 2 solid eyes? ] ;B[ad]C[Roblol [4k\]: 60s proboably Roblol [4k\]: ? SpiderGay: 30s proutoz0re: d19 Ophelia [-\]: 30s Fatality [7k\]: 30s Roblol [4k\]: ok Tsuijin [1d\]: m3 group can always get h7 ADG [6k\]: black's going to have 50 points, right ? Uberdude [2d\]: true Roblol [4k\]: pretty fast for a pro game imo ] ;W[af] ;B[bb]C[okiol [5k\]: can g1 too if needed Hikaruwaya [3k?\]: the other one is already done appelsap [9k\]: b18 painful MXHero [-\]: j18 is nice Ophelia [-\]: nice krakengo [1d\]: B18 best fruitdrops [3k\]: d4 coming anytime soon? Rocker [4d\]: supa tetious moku counting yose game! Rocker [4d\]: tediouus Chievo [3k\]: b inviting w to D15? appelsap [9k\]: best but painful, gote jeffywhite [7k\]: the ko rule makes no sense at all Sincere [3k\]: q15 :D SpiderGay: o15 okiol [5k\]: what ko rule? krakengo [1d\]: yes wake me up when it's over twintom [6k\]: no rocker w leads by at least 10 points ] ;W[rq]C[Uberdude [2d\]: f15? SpiderGay: i said s3 SpiderGay: not o15 Uberdude [2d\]: o15 o13 kinda miai Eoan [2k\]: D4!! Uberdude [2d\]: f15 makes some cash ] ;B[lf]C[DrStraw [-\]: Looks like it will be a long drawn out yose - W appears to have enough points for the win Rocker [4d\]: hmm Sincere [3k\]: l16 WWSD [1k\]: i dont get b18 at all ] ;W[kf]C[Uberdude [2d\]: b18 makes shape and eyes WWSD [1k\]: why not b17 Uberdude [2d\]: and makes d19 gote jeffywhite [7k\]: ensures life fractic [2k\]: b18 makes d19 gote for white USGO1 [-\]: time: w 1 period, b 3 periods Eoan [2k\]: D19 Sincere [3k\]: wait Uberdude [2d\]: b17 means d19 is sente Laval [4d\]: because then D19 would be sente cliftut [14k?\]: According to the automaic score estimation white wins by 90.5 SpiderGay: w shoulda play fater Sincere [3k\]: g18 stones are dead arent they? SpiderGay: fater SpiderGay: ffaster* Rakeliem [1d\]: you mean fatter? Uberdude [2d\]: no sincere WWSD [1k\]: how would it be sente Eoan [2k\]: Hard to read and type Uberdude [2d\]: connected to p18 Chievo [3k\]: no Chievo [3k\]: thicker, not fatter appelsap [9k\]: flatter? flatchest [1k\]: wat SpiderGay: i mean faster ] ;B[sj]C[Uberdude [2d\]: d19 c19 e19 and b must defend cit WWSD [1k\]: what can white play fractic [2k\]: g18 stones can be captured Ophelia [-\]: SE thinks black is dead... Chievo [3k\]: OUCH MXHero [-\]: w can kill them, sincere, but only if n17 is safer than right now Rakeliem [1d\]: what does that mean Chievo [3k\]: w in trouble WWSD [1k\]: oh DragonWolf [5k\]: does O10 remove black's eyes? WWSD [1k\]: i didnt even look over there DragonWolf [5k\]: *eye Ophelia [-\]: dont trust SE WWSD [1k\]: nvm Uberdude [2d\]: wwsd this is basic stuff WWSD [1k\]: thanks ] ;W[rm]C[WWSD [1k\]: i actually DragonWolf [5k\]: W O10? appelsap [9k\]: SE is my friend in bad days WWSD [1k\]: thought E18 was black stone Articuno [-\]: wwsd: what would satan do? WWSD [1k\]: no t0Strong4u [-\]: f14 ] ;B[cq]C[acellist1 [5k\]: satan would take black Brizou [2k\]: o10 is gote, not doing anything since black can connect anywhere Articuno [-\]: no, satan would take white with ing komi =p tromp [-\]: h1 ] ;W[lp]C[Bierce [1d\]: i bet god is one stone stronger than satan Fatality [7k\]: lol fractic [2k\]: it's the hand of god afterall ] ;B[om]C[Chievo [3k\]: stop this discussion Bierce [1d\]: ^^ indianayk [5d\]: very close game? BadDuke [4k\]: Satan cheats during the counting ] ;W[pm]C[Bierce [1d\]: but god will know Sincere [3k\]: xD cliftut [14k?\]: But gets caught. Rocker [4d\]: f14 Fatality [7k\]: satan uses ing ko rule to win appelsap [9k\]: :) okiol [5k\]: ...and that's the story of how komi appeared okiol [5k\]: bible version Woodstock [-\]: what are you talking about? ] ;B[br]C[Chievo [3k\]: as an atheist Im offfended by you people talking about god and satan Fokatukc [7k\]: y? ] ;W[cs]C[Roblol [4k\]: ? appelsap [9k\]: ? cliftut [14k?\]: ? Eoan [2k\]: that's very strange.... Rakeliem [1d\]: ? okiol [5k\]: ! archer [?\]: ???????? Rakeliem [1d\]: !! Chievo [3k\]: I dont believe they exist liberaji [2k\]: timesuji Matrix000 [2k\]: im offended by you being an atheist Bactria [17k?\]: ? t0Strong4u [-\]: hahah Kountch [2d?\]: time move i think Eoan [2k\]: so then just ignore it.... jeffywhite [7k\]: well maybe WE are offended by u saying they dont exist Roblol [4k\]: I'm an atheist aswell and I realize the religious people are the one who should be offended since theyre making fun of religion ;) Highwayman [1k\]: taking time move Articuno [-\]: as a deeply religious man, I'm offended that you're offended about the talks of satan and god ] ;B[ff]C[Sampi [3k\]: stop the theological discussion, lets focus on the game Rakeliem [1d\]: I'm anti-religious jshift [20k?\]: admins? Sincere [3k\]: ouch Rakeliem [1d\]: not anything Sincere [3k\]: huge move cod [10k\]: i agree god as anoying conceptnd the devil are MXHero [-\]: so.. -awkward pause-... how about that b2 move? tempGuest: take this elsewhere guys appelsap [9k\]: ADMINS ] ;W[oe]C[Fokatukc [7k\]: \\b will win Fokatukc [7k\]: the b2 is allpowerful archer [?\]: this conversation needs to ead Rakeliem [1d\]: b2 expected Fatality [7k\]: w+93,5 archer [?\]: end ] ;B[od]C[Javaness [-\]: Hello Fokatukc [7k\]: nice use of SE fje204: B2 BOMBER YEA! flatchest [1k\]: WHERE????? Sincere [3k\]: q16 ] ;W[ne]C[Fokatukc [7k\]: e9 liberaji [2k\]: b2 makes 1 pt for B? Sincere [3k\]: oh wait Chievo [3k\]: actually its a zed bomber Rocker [4d\]: o13 flatchest [1k\]: p16 misclick ADG [6k\]: b2 prevents w making points in g2 ... fractic [2k\]: b2 was purely played for time Chievo [3k\]: z-bomber flatchest [1k\]: should be q17 hade [16k\]: W resign, B2 bomber XD ] ;B[nd]C[MXHero [-\]: p16 is a good empty triangle Fokatukc [7k\]: b d16 ADG [6k\]: why would a pro waste ko threats ? flatchest [1k\]: b really like empty triangle fractic [2k\]: to get an extra 30 second thinking time ] ;W[la]C[jer5d [6d\]: k16 fractic [2k\]: L13 sente jer5d [6d\]: ew appelsap [9k\]: time move lulubell [13k\]: wasted move... kimball [4d\]: p16 was 1 point doule sente t0Strong4u [-\]: w take two stones Sincere [3k\]: .... fractic [2k\]: m19 is not time move GoFan23: is that a time move? jer5d [6d\]: no ] ;B[ka]C[GoFan23: y doesnt he just pass appelsap [9k\]: no? jer5d [6d\]: normal fractic [2k\]: it opens up j18 later on Chievo [3k\]: this is called reducing GoFan23: that was pointless Chievo [3k\]: get a grip Sincere [3k\]: doesnt work now t0Strong4u [-\]: ah ADG [6k\]: m15 ? Sincere [3k\]: l16 Rocker [4d\]: j18 Sampi [3k\]: j18 k18 j19 k19 k16 DrZoom [8k\]: m16 deft [4d\]: J18 works Zephon [2k\]: its retribution for the b2 stone Tower [3d\]: who will it beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee ] ;W[jd]C[Roblol [4k\]: k16 fractic [2k\]: J18 doesn't work withouth L16 Tsuijin [1d\]: k15 stones gone deft [4d\]: captures two stones jer5d [6d\]: yeahy fractic [2k\]: or there is ko for the N18 stones jer5d [6d\]: loveme WiseGuy [2d?\]: No.. Zephon [2k\]: wow appelsap [9k\]: hehe Brizou [2k\]: nasty Tower [3d\]: this can start a big ko ? Eoan [2k\]: j16 Sincere [3k\]: captures 2 stones at the cost of 5 appelsap [9k\]: m19 trick Sampi [3k\]: k16 is gote now, seems a bit small WiseGuy [2d?\]: This captures nothing... Brizou [2k\]: that ko can be a killer Ophelia [-\]: now the fun begins. Tower [3d\]: starts a giant ko krakengo [1d\]: strong USGO1 [-\]: both players with one period now Tsuijin [1d\]: a ko that white wins =) krakengo [1d\]: look at b shapes ] ;B[md]C[Tower [3d\]: wow krakengo [1d\]: w ko master Chievo [3k\]: nice fractic [2k\]: strange move Chievo [3k\]: tenuki is best at this point ADG [6k\]: pro move Hikaruwaya [3k?\]: it's not okiol [5k\]: b wasted a ko threat and will now lose! fractic [2k\]: now the capture threathens J18 Rakeliem [1d\]: take it take it MXHero [-\]: j18 Tower [3d\]: J16 is semi sente, black can force but he'd have to fix later ] ;W[ng]C[t0Strong4u [-\]: lol why would you tenuki Sampi [3k\]: ahh! Toge [5k\]: m15 sente chrono3450 [1d\]: i'm stunned at how many people critize a korean 8p's move... seriously... Rakeliem [1d\]: gee ] ;B[id]C[fractic [2k\]: i don't critize archer [?\]: looks lie black is trying to take those stones atm17 appelsap [9k\]: oooo fractic [2k\]: just think it's strange Tower [3d\]: m15 ? vg674 [14k\]: to build a table of course Ophelia [-\]: well said chrono. Sampi [3k\]: b is smart fractic [2k\]: i don't understand :( Sincere [3k\]: yeah, m15 krakengo [1d\]: b did ok, induced defense Rocker [4d\]: o13 weird Chievo [3k\]: nice work kuo yin ] ;W[kd]C[Sampi [3k\]: m15 ? jsc [14k\]: hi everyone what going on??? Sampi [3k\]: for w, i meant Roblol [4k\]: j19 ? Rakeliem [1d\]: j19 ] ;B[ib]C[Uberdude [2d\]: p15 overplay should o15 ? krakengo [1d\]: way to maintain pressure for w Sampi [3k\]: j19 is a must Chievo [3k\]: b performed well under pressure Chievo [3k\]: I must applaud him Sincere [3k\]: ... fractic [2k\]: b got good result appelsap [9k\]: n13 cliftut [14k?\]: Why didn't he kill with snapback at L16? I miss something? t0Strong4u [-\]: yes ] ;W[pe] ;B[qe]C[Woodstock [-\]: black can be proud of himself getting applause from you Rocker [4d\]: h2 racine [2d\]: cliftut : you missed M16 liberty krakengo [1d\]: he was in atari 2 stones fruitdrops [3k\]: n15 seems most normal now WiseGuy [2d?\]: Why are you? Of course, people who aren't used to think for themselves and blindly believe in authority may think 8p couldn't be wrong. Well, that's the root of many 'evils' in this world... blind belief. WiseGuy [2d?\]: I've seen 9p blunder... ] ;W[gr]C[appelsap [9k\]: n15 yes WiseGuy [2d?\]: Nothing wrong with questioning their moves. Tower [3d\]: i wonder if this works Rocker [4d\]: uh flatchest [1k\]: wow u are wise Tower [3d\]: C5 makes this interesting ] ;B[hr] ;W[gp]C[krakengo [1d\]: this is like when k criticizes d wellwell: i am confused, who is wining? appelsap [9k\]: ooo Fatality [7k\]: o.o Sampi [3k\]: i think b really screwed up there chrono3450 [1d\]: first off, you have to give them the benefit of the doubt. and it's not about questioning their moves,, it's about critizing them. how many people thought M19 was wrong? or N16 wrong? for crying out loud, just read and maybe think that YOU might be missing something proutoz0re: black leads MXHero [-\]: oh neat Tower [3d\]: black is fine, white will just connect ] ;B[fp]C[Rocker [4d\]: w wanting ko? cliftut [14k?\]: Always question, always learn. Never question, always lose. ] ;W[fq]C[Sampi [3k\]: w will connect in sente Rocker [4d\]: oh krakengo [1d\]: poor b Psychopomp [5k?\]: how did game end? Bierce [1d\]: wow super tesuji Tower [3d\]: this seems weird HowToLose [5k\]: g1? BadDuke [4k\]: Seems like black is ahead by about 10 appelsap [9k\]: de-eyeification ] ;B[gf]C[ml3400 [1d\]: g7 krakengo [1d\]: really, resign now Rakeliem [1d\]: ko danteVAM [5k\]: beautiful Toge [5k\]: ! ] ;W[hf]C[Sampi [3k\]: g14 timesuji? Tower [3d\]: black is connected or alive flatchest [1k\]: w kill d3 Bierce [1d\]: think so Tower [3d\]: lets be serious fractic [2k\]: F3 was gote krakengo [1d\]: he wanted to waste a ko threat Rocker [4d\]: nice read by w Fokatukc [7k\]: w dont want b to play g4 ] ;B[gm]C[Toge [5k\]: No it wasn't. andrewgr [2k\]: f3 not gote MXHero [-\]: f3 is not gote ] ;W[hs]C[fractic [2k\]: he will defend eventually fractic [2k\]: there he just did Brizou [2k\]: Not gote, just smaller than killing H17 krakengo [1d\]: do it, b, do it Sampi [3k\]: he will defend; in sente ] ;B[gp]C[krakengo [1d\]: there, fine shape t0Strong4u [-\]: too good.... ] ;W[ls]C[flatchest [1k\]: dont doubt w strongness!!!!!!!! krakengo [1d\]: poom poom okiol [5k\]: strongness... fruitdrops [3k\]: w is just waking up Sampi [3k\]: w must defend at a2 eventually, right? ] ;B[kl]C[krakengo [1d\]: did you have your opponent ! appelsap [9k\]: i doubt w's strongness cliftut [14k?\]: Yeah, I was just starting to see the potential for mass death when black defended. ] ;W[mo]C[tromp [-\]: why cldnt b g1? racine [2d\]: Sampi : no krakengo [1d\]: atari Tower [3d\]: n1 Fatality [7k\]: o.o ] ;B[ms]C[HowToLose [5k\]: sampi: not anymore ] ;W[jl]C[Tower [3d\]: k8 Tower [3d\]: haha Fatality [7k\]: game just began? ^^ Tower [3d\]: pros are funny andrewgr [2k\]: if black g1, white d4 and kills Sampi [3k\]: but what about after b fills d4 ? racine [2d\]: sampi : yes :p ] ;B[ln]C[Sampi [3k\]: then b1 and f1 ? :P andrewgr [2k\]: then atari at g7 Rocker [4d\]: w supa stinge with moku t0Strong4u [-\]: sampi....he would not miss that ] ;W[bl]C[Sampi [3k\]: no, of course he wouldnt appelsap [9k\]: 398 observers. almost more than the number of active US go players.... Tower [3d\]: lol Tower [3d\]: far from true Sampi [3k\]: im saying he has to defend after dame DrStraw [-\]: mor ethan the USGO attendees flatchest [1k\]: XD Cimmerian [3d\]: maybe if they stopped go from sucking so much BadDuke [4k\]: And tem time the number of good ones. maxp73 [2d\]: lol app Cimmerian [3d\]: there would be more players ] ;B[ol] ;W[pl]C[flatchest [1k\]: in euro congress there are 1000 players lol Cimmerian [3d\]: personally i cant wait for the next patch okiol [5k\]: or more observers andrewgr [2k\]: in europe they get more than 2 weeks of vacation archer [?\]: almost all the number of us go players appelsap Tower [3d\]: go has a much larger following in europe t0Strong4u [-\]: US go is weak liberaji [2k\]: euro has very short distances ] ;B[me]C[krakengo [1d\]: w ending up with 1 group ] ;W[mn]C[krakengo [1d\]: to b 4 Meepy [-\]: looks like white wins by a couple points liberaji [2k\]: ING rule rewards more groups? ADG [6k\]: haha true! krakengo [1d\]: shows his enormous efficiency ] ;B[mm]C[Rocker [4d\]: so now what se estimaate? ] ;W[kn]C[keepgoing [-\]: US go is weak now, but it has been on the rise for a little while, not much, but atleast it's a positive trend. HowToLose [5k\]: W+88.5 HowToLose [5k\]: *SE Tower [3d\]: se is off in AGA rules Meepy [-\]: that's just my count appelsap [9k\]: does SE account for ING rules? ] ;B[lm]C[Meepy [-\]: w+2.5 :) ] ;W[nj] ;B[mj]C[Vash3G [-\]: This is AGA rules, not ING andrewgr [2k\]: this is not ING, so it doesn't matter Kozak03 [15k\]: aye wish I had more RL peeps to play in US ] ;W[eg]C[liberaji [2k\]: fine, "Area scoring" Sincere [3k\]: well Fatality [7k\]: yes appelsap :) cliftut [14k?\]: The US is okay. They've got me, after all. Sincere [3k\]: b has at most 50 ] ;B[np]C[okiol [5k\]: tbh, for se it doesn't matter because it kills b's group so it's w+ 50 ] ;W[lo]C[jsc [14k\]: hahahahahhahahahha look at SE its hilarious!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Articuno [-\]: SE is 9p, didn't you get the memo? Tower [3d\]: you're hilarious Sincere [3k\]: w is ahead krakengo [1d\]: SE has a sense of justice liberaji [2k\]: young ppl still find SE hilarious.... Fatality [7k\]: se is correct according to ing rules ] ;B[ph] ;W[oh]C[archer [?\]: not by much appelsap [9k\]: aricuno LOL jsc [14k\]: well im not going by SE you know krakengo [1d\]: the b group really should die for it's sheer ugliness Rocker [4d\]: its clear w wins fje204: who is SE? Sincere [3k\]: w is ahead by a good chunk appelsap [9k\]: I am SE jsc [14k\]: score estimate keepgoing [-\]: actually. white can k11. and seperate. Black will of course, tenuki. xD ] ;B[ni] ;W[oi]C[krakengo [1d\]: "how can w win this ? where are w points ?" and so on Articuno [-\]: bleh, the b group should get a break since its ugly GaretJax [6k\]: No, I am SE ] ;B[pf]C[Rocker [4d\]: w wins by 3.5OK? ] ;W[og]C[HowToLose [5k\]: I am SEtacus Sincere [3k\]: no Tower [3d\]: more like 4.6 Sincere [3k\]: w wins by 5.5 Ectoplasme [4d\]: s1 archer [?\]: w+1.5 Fatality [7k\]: w wins by 2,7 ] ;B[dp]C[Aimless [1k\]: w+e.5 Roblol [4k\]: g12 ? arapbaci [3k\]: w+3cos(x) appelsap [9k\]: ugly groups should get less points, like A and B scores like in Ice Dancing ] ;W[es]C[carpenter [6k\]: no. my aunt mary is SE keepgoing [-\]: 3 the cosine of x... wow. archer [?\]: whats SE Rocker [4d\]: FINALLY this moku hugry game is nearing the end archer [?\]: ? antipanda [9k\]: g13? ] ;B[rs] ;W[gg]C[jsc [14k\]: its score estimate jeffywhite [7k\]: score estimeat\\ archer [?\]: thx keepgoing [-\]: se is score exaggerator GaretJax [6k\]: So white wins by a function? Chievo [3k\]: woah Chievo [3k\]: w is good Tower [3d\]: a function of x it be Aimless [1k\]: w+e^i*B Sincere [3k\]: chievo - you are wierd ] ;B[sl]C[Chievo [3k\]: hes taking a claim for the iwn appelsap [9k\]: SE is the Score Estater that you can find under Options, using the CGoban client Sincere [3k\]: of course they are good -_- Malone [9k\]: rocker just likes to say "moku" time and time again.... Sampi [3k\]: w+7 is my count Chievo [3k\]: WIN Chievo [3k\]: WIN I SAID jsc [14k\]: w+§ archer [?\]: they are both good Javaness [-\]: I don't think people are concentrating on the game enough Chievo [3k\]: raed me Malone [9k\]: =P Rocker [4d\]: with g13 , w wins by 5.5 now ,OK?? HowToLose [5k\]: w+(17x+3.5), assuming f(x) = f(0) ] ;W[ih]C[Sincere [3k\]: see, i was right Sincere [3k\]: :D keepgoing [-\]: white's endgame is nice. Meepy [-\]: didn't expect him to get g13 Evaugh [4k\]: f(0) being? flatchest [1k\]: 3,5 flatchest [1k\]: duhhh ] ;B[im]C[keepgoing [-\]: f(0) = x appelsap [9k\]: any mathematicians over here? ] ;W[jh]C[jsc [14k\]: fx= a really lame motivator so SE means ◘┴☺☻ Sampi [3k\]: is a go server? its crawling with math geeks :P flatchest [1k\]: w+3,5 keepgoing [-\]: ¿ okiol [5k\]: howtolose seems good, rest i don't know what they're doing Sincere [3k\]: l10 appelsap [9k\]: ☺ ] ;B[jq]C[keepgoing [-\]: lol fje204: it isn't? ] ;W[jr]C[Fatality [7k\]: flatchest do you count komi? Javaness [-\]: no chrono3450 [1d\]: we're decifering the cont javaness robertm [2d\]: no fighting in the war room liberaji [2k\]: what? jsc [14k\]: i had math at school today just got home BadDuke [4k\]: Why J7? chrono3450 [1d\]: we need math archer [?\]: that hurt SAMPI!!!!! Lacrimosa [1k\]: kgs should be family-friendly flatchest [1k\]: fatality,i just checked SE XD fje204: i thought Go was a game that needs math Fatality [7k\]: ok tiantian [11k\]: i am a mathematician! arapbaci [3k\]: sorry, ive started that stupid argument... fje204: lol Tower [3d\]: B-42+5 = 47? w - 43+1+7 or something? keepgoing [-\]: and i though counting was math xD keepgoing [-\]: jk ] ;B[kk]C[fje204: coulda fooled me :p ] ;W[jj] ;B[ji]C[appelsap [9k\]: hey sente move ] ;W[dd]C[okiol [5k\]: that doesn't make sense, tower :( hikaru360 [20k?\]: hello everyone keepgoing [-\]: this convo should go in kgs chat's greatest moments keepgoing [-\]: in senseis ] ;B[bc]C[appelsap [9k\]: hello hikaru360 okiol [5k\]: two unknown variables :( ] ;W[oo]C[topfar [1d\]: Who wins? Sakae [-\]: what was the result? jsc [14k\]: hey and i read that AND IT DOESNT HAVE MY NAME skeptical [2d\]: w wins for such Sampi [3k\]: even after b18, b had to defend :) skeptical [2d\]: sure misty1 [10k\]: black b1thenf1 hikaru360 [20k?\]: who do you think is going to win? Ophelia [-\]: white keeps on getting all the good endgame? misty1 [10k\]: ouch for white fractic [2k\]: we all win it was a good game ] ;B[fg]C[hikaru360 [20k?\]: ok ] ;W[fh]C[hezf: black will win keepgoing [-\]: w pwns at endgame hikaru360 [20k?\]: lol jsc [14k\]: hahahaha Sakae [-\]: hmm archer [?\]: true fractic Fatality [7k\]: I win flatchest [1k\]: i got 1 stone stronger watching this game Brizou [2k\]: misty1: black can't play twice Ectoplasme [4d\]: w wins by komi Brizou [2k\]: in a row Sakae [-\]: kinda looks even ] ;B[al]C[hikaru360 [20k?\]: yeah Knotwilg [2d\]: W took many points for B's play at the right appelsap [9k\]: I got 16 stones stronger by watching this game jsc [14k\]: w+2.5 ] ;W[da] ;B[ca] ;W[ga]C[appelsap [9k\]: So I'm 5D ] ;B[ha]C[Hyoga [6k\]: ok robertm [2d\]: I got 16 stones heavier by watching this game Rocker [4d\]: VERy Evaugh [4k\]: lol keepgoing [-\]: b o6 ] ;W[am]C[flatchest [1k\]: XD arapbaci [3k\]: ive become 3 stones stronger in maths watching this game ] ;B[ai] ;W[ah]C[Fatality [7k\]: I got two stones worse Sakae [-\]: robertm Zephon [2k\]: i got 16 times more experienced at kibitzing while watching this game o.O arapbaci [3k\]: argh i did it again jsc [14k\]: i got -4 stones weaker watching this game Sakae [-\]: meaning you need 16 more stones? hikaru360 [20k?\]: do any of you watch hikaru no go? Evaugh [4k\]: this game has made people silly cliftut [14k?\]: I leveled up six times. archer [?\]: i started to type faster liberaji [2k\]: i lost 2 stones reading kibitz keepgoing [-\]: lol ] ;B[of]C[jsc [14k\]: hikaru i watch it its cool ] ;W[nf]C[okiol [5k\]: i tihnk someone created a trend hikaru360 [20k?\]: yeah it is cliftut [14k?\]: me too. fruitdrops [3k\]: i became fatter watching this appelsap [9k\]: me too proutoz0re: t2 jsc [14k\]: hahaha DrZoom [8k\]: f9 or t7 hikaru360 [20k?\]: i started reading the books too Sincere [3k\]: e19 Brizou [2k\]: l10 ? ] ;B[sm] ;W[sn]C[jeffywhite [7k\]: i read 2 books Rocker [4d\]: thouh this game is at bery high level i doubt seeing this game would help improving!!?? twintom [6k\]: w 5,5 points ahead cliftut [14k?\]: It's kiddy sort of, but in a good way. archer [?\]: i read 3 Sampi [3k\]: I think w wins by 4.5 archer [?\]: books Rocker [4d\]: very* jsc [14k\]: im going to red a tesuji book hikaru360 [20k?\]: ive read 1 so far ] ;B[sk]C[keepgoing [-\]: i'm going to green a tesuji book. hikaru360 [20k?\]: vol. 4 ] ;W[on]C[Principe [2d\]: crazy close fractic [2k\]: tesuji by James Davies is good Zephon [2k\]: Try James Davies Elementary go series Tesujis Brizou [2k\]: I read 0.5 Rocker [4d\]: no jsc [14k\]: k frantis does it have pictures??? appelsap [9k\]: I should re-read the Tesuji book Sampi [3k\]: Brizou: with komi? Rocker [4d\]: its 5.5 cliftut [14k?\]: I'm going to play a tesuji book. flatchest [1k\]: i have never read a go book :( ] ;B[in]C[Principe [2d\]: 0.5 soounds good ] ;W[jn]C[kumydan: reading a book is so hard... jsc [14k\]: flatchest me niether DrZoom [8k\]: n12 ? Blockdude [3k\]: t2 flatchest [1k\]: go books too expensive kumydan: maybe i go and write one.. flatchest [1k\]: ;((((((( hikaru360 [20k?\]: the manga in hikaru no go is realy good ] ;B[ea]C[Fatality [7k\]: I read tesuji from james davies fith time now ] ;W[fa]C[Ophelia [-\]: not the place for this coversation. Sincere [3k\]: its pretty obvious that white has a decent lead keepgoing [-\]: the best thing to do is recreate professional games to try to take a grasp of good shape and flow Rocker [4d\]: my level too high reading books doesnt help any mre jsc [14k\]: does it have pictures???????? liberaji [2k\]: so it's W+R like I predicted? hikaru360 [20k?\]: yeah fje204: tsubasaki no gete ha bake mai o ne fractic [2k\]: i think the best way to improve is to play and review your games topfar [1d\]: L10? hikaru360 [20k?\]: it has pictures ] ;B[sr]C[Sincere [3k\]: what did you read before you got to that level rocker? cliftut [14k?\]: Me neither. I keep wondering if some ancient tomes of go knowledge might be hidden somewhere in the far back at our library, but we don't go there, 'cause we owe them money. Sincere [3k\]: :P ] ;W[kj]C[fiftymm [11k\]: is obvious troll obvious, or 12? Extend [5k\]: f9 Knotwilg [2d\]: W +3,5 Sampi [3k\]: im gonna count again! :D topfar [1d\]: B wins? DrZoom [8k\]: f9 ? Principe [2d\]: i tihnk b wins by 1.5 archer [?\]: white should win but it is really close Brizou [2k\]: b+0.5 jsc [14k\]: whats with these , why not a .? Sakae [-\]: ing rules Evaugh [4k\]: f9 makes A9/A10 quite good Sakae [-\]: or isn't it? GaretJax [6k\]: isnt' it a bit sad that we can't even agree on the score? hikaru360 [20k?\]: do any of you own a go board? Pinchilei [2d\]: f9 not a point topfar [1d\]: looks b wins! GaretJax [6k\]: yes wellwell: b can resign jeffywhite [7k\]: i do Rocker [4d\]: but i swear i ve never studied any tsumego book it just bores me too much WWSD [1k\]: Im gonna count this too! (options->Score est) hikaru360 [20k?\]: i want to get one USGO1 [-\]: Black has resigned the game. flatchest [1k\]: i dont know how to count!!!!!!!! okiol [5k\]: direction of play or something is often mentioned wellwell: b lost jsc [14k\]: i got one Paddlefoot [1d\]: does SE include komi? DrZoom [8k\]: Evaugh: ah ic... flatchest [1k\]: aga rules jsc [14k\]: i made it from plywood liberaji [2k\]: ok thanks USGO Sakae [-\]: reading books is for weaklings Tsuijin [1d\]: tell them to eat Ophelia [-\]: wow. awesome game Fatality [7k\]: o.O hikaru360 [20k?\]: nice, jsc Hancock [4d\]: thx gg both USGO1 [-\]: Thank you everyone for watching. okiol [5k\]: how long was this game? flatchest [1k\]: whp wom?? flatchest [1k\]: who win?????? Paddlefoot [1d\]: white okiol [5k\]: like... 4 hours? wellwell: w Fatality [7k\]: thx USGO1 carpenter [6k\]: thx usgo! xedover [7k?\]: W+r jeffywhite [7k\]: nah DrStraw [-\]: how many samateurs would resign whne 4 points down? ])