

Fisker Karma plug-in hybrid




Fisker Karma





Fisker Surf

Source: Inside Line

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RE: 20 mpg is pathetic
By Keeir on 10/20/2011 1:32:56 PM , Rating: 2
FIT, your smarter than this.

2008 Pontaic Solistc- 19/28 EPA Rated, 22 Combined
2008 Chevy Cobalt SS- 22/30 EPA Rated, 25 Combined

Yes the Chevy Cobalt got 25% better mileage from the same engine...

while massing ~25% less and having around 8% less frontal area.

Seems like the Karma motor-->electricity-->motion is around 5-10% more efficient than GMs motor-->transmission-->motion path. Not that 5-10% is enough all things considered, but lets stop pretended that GM ever produced ANY car with the 260 hp engine that got 31 EPA combined mileage.

RE: 20 mpg is pathetic
By FITCamaro on 10/20/2011 1:54:03 PM , Rating: 1
I didn't say combined. And I thought the number was 31, not 30.

Of course talking to people who owned them, they got more than 30 mpg highway.

RE: 20 mpg is pathetic
By Keeir on 10/20/2011 2:11:35 PM , Rating: 2

You do realize that 20 MPG is the Karma's EPA COMBINED number right?

I can't find that EPA HIGHWAY number, that would actually be a good comparison to the Chevy Cobalt SS 2008 Manual that is telling me was 30 MPG.

Not sure what good it does to talk down EPA combined numbers with person experience HWY numbers. Otherwise, we should just all bow our heads to the 50+ MPG 1990s Civic eh?

RE: 20 mpg is pathetic

RE: 20 mpg is pathetic
BMW 528i - 2011 version does get 25 combined.








RE: 20 mpg is pathetic


RE: 20 mpg is pathetic




The M5 will use 3.7 MWh of gasoline
The Panamera Hybrid will use 2.5 MWh of gasoline





RE: 20 mpg is pathetic



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RE: 20 mpg is pathetic
It's also ridiculous to compare mpg based on price.


RE: 20 mpg is pathetic

RE: 20 mpg is pathetic




160 kWh of Diesel Fuel
20 kWh of Natural Gas (Heat to Refine Diesel)

Total Energy Consume: 189 kWh
Total Fossil Fuel Consume: 188 kWh
Total Imported Oil: 105 kWh
Estimated Cost: 17.2 Dollars (5.45 for imported Oil)

A Karma over the same distance (60% electric)

72 kWh of Gasoline
10 kWh of NG (Heat to refine Gasoline)

Total Energy Consumed: 181 kWh
Total Fossil Fuel: 170 kWh
Total Imported Oil: 46.8 kWh
Estimated Cost: 14.2 dollars (2.43 for Imported Oil)


Distrabution of Gasoline/Diesel from Refinary: .95
Transmission of Electrity: .92 (per DOE/EIA)
US Power Grid per 2009
Efficieny of Coal Power: .33 (EIA)
Efficieny of NG Power: .5 (EIA)

RE: 20 mpg is pathetic



RE: 20 mpg is pathetic


The bulk of the Karma's driving will be on battery power.


RE: 20 mpg is pathetic




RE: 20 mpg is pathetic
By FITCamaro on 10/20/2011 8:08:54 PM , Rating: 2
20 mpg combined is even more pathetic with a 4 cylinder engine. Especially at that price.

That means in the city it gets worse than 20 mpg. What is its numbers? 16 and 24? 15 and 25? Oh goody. Roughly the same numbers as a 505 hp Z06 Corvette.

RE: 20 mpg is pathetic
By Keeir on 10/21/2011 5:02:24 AM , Rating: 2
Sigh... alright. One more time.

I just went to and looked a 2012 Corvettes.

The Z06? It gets a combined number of 17.

Why don't you just admit that you hate the Karma and accept that you can't even think rationally about it. Karma fuel economy is disappointing, but not low given its class of car. Its also the second most environmental ultra luxury car after the Tesla Roadster.

Each person who buys a Karma over a Panamera is reducing our dependence on foreign oil while promoting investing in American Power companies and American Fossil Fuels... all while having significantly lower running costs. Not really sure why you have such a hatred for this car... it pretty much wins on every front except for the 7,500 tax credit... which it really doesn't need (I think that credit should have been written to exclude all cars over 50,000 personally).

RE: 20 mpg is pathetic
By FITCamaro on 10/21/2011 1:08:09 PM , Rating: 1
No I don't hate the Karma. I don't care if people buy it.

I'm saying for $57,000, I wouldn't buy a car that gets under 30 mpg when it only has a 2.0L engine and is supposedly "environmentally friendly".

Now I do hate though that the tax payer helped front over $500 million dollars for this thing and its not even going to be built here like the administration claimed and bragged about to justify the loan. All so wealthier people can buy a fancy electric car that gets shitty mileage and still feel good about themselves.

RE: 20 mpg is pathetic
By Keeir on 10/21/2011 2:35:00 PM , Rating: 2
So many wrongs.

#1. The Fisker Karma is a 95,000+ dollar car. The forthcoming Tesla Model S is rumored to start at 57,000.

#2. The Government loan was for Project Nina. A car that will be built in the USA in Delaware. Project Nina will be a 3/5 series compeditor and is rumored to use the same engine as the BMW 528i. I repeat, the Fisker Karma is NOT Project Nina. Similiar to Tesla, Fisker is first producing an Ultra Lux Car, then a Luxury Sedan, and then normal Sedan. The concept in both cases is by the time the normal sedan is being developed, costs and efficienies will rise.

#3. No, the Karma travels 30+ miles at 65 kWh/100 miles. Only if exceeding 30 miles from the large recharge would the "20" MPG come into play.

If you personally travel farther than 30 miles between recharge often, then the Fisker Karma is obviously not the right choice for you.

In any Plug-In Series Hybrid Concept the ICE is there for emergency use, long term travel use, etc. A Plug-In Series Hybrid is not for the traveling salesman. Its a replacement for the 75%+ of automobiles that rarely leave a 30 miles radius of thier garage location.

A simple question FIT. How much range would an electric car need to have before you would use it as Primary Car? How much range would the same car need to have if it had an emergency backup that could convert easily available fuels into electricity? I am guess the answer the first is 300+ miles and the answer to the second is about 5-10 miles further than your roundtrip to work. That's a HUGE differen ce in required battery size.... in essense a 100 mile AER PHEV with a backup will be cheaper than a 300 miles BEV.... and 3! 100 mile AER PHEV can be built with the same amount of battery material. Thats the point of the Karma. It allows for 2-3 Karma's to be built using essentially the same resources as a single Tesla Roadster.

RE: 20 mpg is pathetic
By FITCamaro on 10/21/2011 1:16:08 PM , Rating: 2
What is this going on combined numbers thing either? Also its 18 combined on that website.


Damn good for a 505hp 7.0L V8. And my friend who actually has one gets 27 mpg in his at 80 mph.

RE: 20 mpg is pathetic




