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...and it starts

Or perhaps I'm just jaded.

RE: ...and it starts
As an environmentalist this makes me sick.





RE: ...and it starts
yes, we do need to act reasonably.


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You're right, San Diego is no where near water.

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San Onofre Nuclear Station, anyone?

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Maybe you should read it again.

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Why are YOU nitpicking on details? LOL!

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I know this is a late response but....



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It's called the Megatons for Megawatts program.

Program is set to end in 2014.

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And yet...





Lastly, "Fuel Reprocessing is unproven and extremely expensive"


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The waste issue still has not been resolved.

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Prices will come down when supply catches up with demand.

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You mean like Barrack Obama?

RE: ...and it starts
By Enoch2001 on 11/6/08, Rating: 0
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Deport these people
By arazok on 11/6/2008 10:01:50 AM , Rating: 5
Leave it to an environmentalist to find a way to object to a solar project.

We need to set aside a chunk of land somewhere in the world, and call it Enviroland. Anyone who calls themselves an environmentalist would immediately be deported to this wonderful place. They could show everyone how to build the utopia they envision. A place where everyone holds hands, freezes in the dark, and drinks tea from reusable wooden cups. The added benefit is that the rest of the world would be free to build a society based on reality, where 11,000 page environmental reports aren’t required to build a few towers in a forest.

RE: Deport these people
By DaveLessnau on 11/6/2008 10:37:11 AM , Rating: 4
...drinks tea from reusable wooden cups.

Except that even though tea is a natural beverage, it's farmed and is (usually, I believe) imported via oil-consuming, damaging-to-sonar-using marine life ships. Plus, the wooden cup, though made from a renewable product and is re-usable, comes from a holy tree of mother Gaia and is not allowed. They'll have to eat local grass and drink water from streams using only their hands as tools. Even then, I'm not sure if it would be allowed: they'll need an environmental impact study and some court cases to figure it out. Until then, they'll need to have an injunction against their eating and drinking.

RE: Deport these people
By arazok on 11/6/2008 10:56:18 AM , Rating: 3
Well in Enviroland, nothing is imported from the outside world. Environmentalism is about sustainability, so they must be 100% self sufficient. The tea would be grown on the roof of their 150sqft bungalows they made from animal dung. You’re correct, a wooden cup would necessitate a human murder a tree, which carries the death penalty in Enviroland. It would be made of driftwood, or stone – and only one cup per dwelling would be provided by the state, as two cups would be excessively wasteful.

RE: Deport these people
By Hieyeck on 11/6/2008 10:46:36 AM , Rating: 2
Maybe we can dump Mick there so he can stop posting this crap.
Then we can stop releasing carbon dioxide in the refining of silicon required for solar cells and keep the critical but toxic out of our water and lungs.

Hyppies. In their efforts to 'protect the environment', they only end up either damaging it more or displaying a total disregard for other human lives.

Good riddance to that solar farm. We need SUSTAINABLE, PRACTICAL solutions, not half-cocked ideas.

RE: Deport these people
By JediJeb on 11/6/2008 12:05:55 PM , Rating: 5

LOL what really so stupid about this comment is that this solar farm does not use solar cells or Cadmium telluride at all. Sterling engines use steam to produce the electricity by spinning a spherical resevoir. So in actuallity you are condeming a bunch of solar powered teapots for polluting the environment. I guess you proved just how badly Enviroland is needed.

RE: Deport these people
By surfponto on 11/6/2008 10:52:48 AM , Rating: 1
Sorry to say that nooone here has any clue about the real issue.

First of all SDG&E wants to put 150 foot steel towers through protected State Park land. This has neve been done before and sets a bad precedent.

Second Sempra and SDG&E have green washed this entire issue. It is not about renewable energy but in fact will give Sempra a market for its' imported LNG gas that it is bringing into Baja Mexico.
Please do a little research before you guys start knocking environmentalist.

Bob B.
Leucadia (San Diego)

RE: Deport these people
By arazok on 11/6/2008 11:08:01 AM , Rating: 2
First of all SDG&E wants to put 150 foot steel towers through protected State Park land. This has never been done before and sets a bad precedent.

I grew up beside a hydro transmission corridor. I never once saw any of those towers eat a bunny, or kill a tree. In fact, they quite predictably did nothing but remain exactly where they were build, doing nothing. I don’t need an 11,000 page document to tell me they are completely harmless.


I like Natural Gas. It heats my home and cooks my food. It’s also very clean burning. What’s not to love?

RE: Deport these people
By 9nails on 11/6/2008 7:58:25 PM , Rating: 2

LOL! After several special effect movies, I can actually picture animated towers running a muck and trying to stomp on California Desert Rats and the wild rabbits.

I think that the physical structure of the tower is sane and stable. If only a bit ugly. But the problem is that they've taken blame for starting multiple California Wild Fires, which have crisped a few wabbits and trees. Wires wiggling in the wind create sparks. Those transmission lines are to blame. Which makes me wonder, if it can't be done above ground... Can these transmission lines be horizontal bored underground?

I know it's going to cost more but our trend for energy consumption isn't going to slow down. Green power generation must be considered. It's disturbing that a short sighted judge is missing the point in order to protect land so spartan that nobody visits. Therefore we all lose out. Instead putting the energy into writing these huge documents, an amicable solution could have been agreed upon.

RE: Deport these people
By on 11/6/2008 11:23:38 AM , Rating: 1
It would be easier to shoot a-holes like you off into space.

RE: Deport these people
By arazok on 11/6/2008 11:27:33 AM , Rating: 2
And the campaigning for President of Enviroland begins…

RE: Deport these people
By TSS on 11/6/2008 3:29:40 PM , Rating: 2
for a change i agree with *these* paticular enviromentalists.

creating a huge solar power plant in the desert to get rid of enviromental damage, only to run the power lines through a protected piece of forest? cmon.

this decision by the judge to not allow it looks to me like the sensible one. building the plant in the first place, doesn't.

i wish we could start living in a politically uncorrect world again. so we can stop calling everybody enviromentallists and start drawing a line again between stupid and smart proposals.

and use 11.000 page reports to find out everything about the impact when the project is designed, not 11.000 page reports on what's wrong with the design. it could help.

RE: Deport these people
By Ringold on 11/6/2008 9:03:26 PM , Rating: 3
We already have an Enviroland. This place is known as Zimbabwe. We also have a backup over-flow location; North Korea. Lowest carbon emissions in the world! WOHOO!

All I can do
By FITCamaro on 11/6/2008 9:49:52 AM , Rating: 3
Is sit back laughing my @ss off at different groups of environmentalists fighting with each other.

Besides I for one welcome the possibility of mutation of animals from exposure to EM radiation caused by high power transmission lines. ManBearPig could become a reality.

In all seriousness, I lived for a year in an apartment with high power lines right out my window. The EM was so bad that my it interfered with my CRT monitor. Do I have tumors growing all over me or cancer? No.

RE: All I can do
By Raidin on 11/6/2008 10:18:18 AM , Rating: 2
It just means you haven't found them yet.

RE: All I can do
By austinag on 11/6/08, Rating: -1
RE: All I can do
By Raidin on 11/6/2008 11:52:26 AM , Rating: 2
If you knew this guy, you'd understand.

RE: All I can do
RE: All I can do
By teldar on 11/6/2008 2:00:22 PM , Rating: 2
Actually, I think it was a pretty reasonable response. FIT has no way to know for sure that he doesn't have some sort of cancer. It's not necessarily completely obvious. Cancer can grow for YEARS in a person before it's known about. Slow growing cancers do NOT kill a person a few months after they start to grow in the body.

As a medical professional, I didn't think he was making fun of cancer, just pointing out the obvious.

RE: All I can do
By FITCamaro on 11/6/2008 2:49:33 PM , Rating: 1
He can hope, pray, and sacrifice small animals towards me and my family all suffer horrible, painful deaths all he wants.

For all he knows, the tumors I develop will give me super powers and let me explode his heart with a thought.

RE: All I can do
By andrinoaa on 11/6/2008 4:42:06 PM , Rating: 2
Fit, or glow boy, must be all of what, 15yrs of age? Just check his shoot from the hip responses in the last year or so. Every issue is black and white with these guys. They like to chant "I am right your are wrong" mantras all the time. Thats why I like to get stuck into them. I can't think of a single issue that is black and white, there is always a second side to everything. What can make a difference is using our intelligence to navigate carefully.

RE: All I can do
By andrinoaa on 11/6/2008 5:02:24 PM , Rating: 1
I meant to say, there is always a hint of gray that allows us to navigate carefully. Sorry, my confused brain at work, lol

RE: All I can do
By Ringold on 11/6/2008 9:05:32 PM , Rating: 4
Someone who absolutely rejects any notion of nuclear power at all wants to whine about someone with white and black views?

Oh boy.

RE: All I can do
By FITCamaro on 11/7/2008 7:57:20 AM , Rating: 1

By nah on 11/6/2008 9:39:45 AM , Rating: 1
use electricity at all ? why not revert to furs and flintstones ?

RE: Why...
By Raidin on 11/6/2008 10:16:22 AM , Rating: 2
Because you can't recharge your iPod with flint.

RE: Why...
By JoshuaBuss on 11/6/2008 1:25:52 PM , Rating: 2

RE: Why...
By vdig on 11/6/2008 10:31:28 AM , Rating: 2
Ah. Good idea. For a "modern stone age family".

RE: Why...

solar suit
By owyheewine on 11/6/2008 10:14:11 AM , Rating: 4
California keeps confirming that it is the land of fruits and nuts. I think we need to reposition the border fence to keep them from further contamonation the rest of the west.

RE: solar suit
By 9nails on 11/6/2008 8:13:48 PM , Rating: 3
The fruits are mad at the nuts over Prop 8. California might end up just a State full of nuts.

Hurry with your fence. The fruits are skilled decorators, but hard to live with.

environmental impact of report
By tallredeye on 11/6/2008 8:19:43 PM , Rating: 2
What is the environmental impact of a 11,000 page report and a 265 page decision?

RE: environmental impact of report
By FITCamaro on 11/7/2008 7:59:52 AM , Rating: 3
Only the rest of us aren't allowed to be wasteful. Remember Al Gore gets his own private jet, big SUVs to ride around in, and huge lavish homes. But the rest of us are evil for using an incandescent bulb instead of a new CFL bulb.

RE: environmental impact of report
By Spuke on 11/7/2008 3:23:00 PM , Rating: 2
When the new CFL bulb has mercury in the ballast and no one's told the average Joe yet that he/she can't just throw their blown CFL bulbs in the garbage.

Anyone want to bet that when "everyone" has CFL bulbs in their homes, the news media will find some "new" info that there's mercury in the ballasts. Then the environmentalists will denounce CFL's and pretend they never told anyone to use these.

Get informed before judging
By realsolar on 11/6/2008 12:24:03 PM , Rating: 3
So it takes 1000s of pages of environmental review to assess a project, but readers of this blog can make up their minds in 5 seconds? There's room in the middle of that spectrum for a reasoned examination of the facts. Here are several:
*A power line is not a "renewable energy" project. There is no requirement that this power line carry any renewable energy at all. (And Stirling Energy Systems is in no way associated with it, as the post implies.)
*In the early 1980s, the same company, SDG&E, promised that the Southwest Powerlink would carry renewable energy as a way of selling it to the public. Today, that power line carries less than 5% renewables.
*There is no commercially viable dish-Stirling system. That photo is Photoshopped, because these things don't exist in that number. Currently there about 5 hand-built models running at Sandia National Labs, and they have tremendous problems with reliability, which as DailyTechies should know is a killer for any power plant. To think that they'll be able to ramp up to making thousands of these units in a couple of years is a fantasy, like the photo.
*If SDG&E were serious about putting solar power on the Sunrise Powerlink it would have contracted with a company proposing to build a conventional concentrating solar thermal plant in Imperial Valley.
*SDG&E's parent company Sempra, has invested billions in developing LNG import infrastructure that includes a pipeline passing just south of the Sunrise Powerlink's starting point, across the border near Mexicali. There are also two gas-fired power plants at this location, and there could be more. The real and obvious reason SDG&E wants to build the Sunrise Powerlink is to import that gas-generated power into Southern California, and the renewable energy claim is just greenwashing. Defeating the Sunrise Powerlink is not a defeat for renewable energy. This is why the Sierra Club, which supports some Big Solar in the desert and has a stakeholder on California's Renewable Energy Transmission Initiative, is opposed to this particular power line.
*The blog post mentions the alternative routing proposed by a CPUC commissioner, but doesn't mention that this alternative requires SDG&E to provide assurances that this line really will carry renewable energy. Given the uncertainty over those Stirling dish systems, it's somewhat doubtful that SDG&E will be able to meet these assurances. Requiring this power line to really carry renewable energy should count as a victory for renewable energy advocates, not a defeat.
*Rooftop Solar: readers of this blog don't seem to be aware of the advances in Cadmium-Telluride thin film solar panels. This cheaper technology has revolutionized the solar industry so that this type of photovoltaic is now cheaper than concentrating solar power. That's why Southern California Edison announced a project for 1000MW of rooftop solar on commercial buildings to be installed over the next 5 yeears. In addition to being cheaper, there's no need for a $2 billion power line to deliver the energy. The marketplace will inevitably switch to this technology, unless government subsidies skew the marketplace toward Big Solar. The fact that this technology can be placed on existing built surfaces makes it environmentally superior to Big Solar.

RE: Get informed before judging
By Suomynona on 11/6/2008 1:26:02 PM , Rating: 2
Do you have numbers on PV vs. CSP? Everything I've read has said that CSP is cheaper. Besides material costs, you can also centralize costs for maintenance, land leasing, etc. Obviously you know more about this particular project than I do, but in general it seems to make more sense for a utility to have a centralized solar plant.

Two Palm Head Shake>>
By snownpaint on 11/6/2008 11:18:53 AM , Rating: 4
So let me get this right..

They don't want to expand solar energy, because they don't want to cause environmental impact with transmission lines.
(two hands to my head, while shaking)

If they built a nuclear reactor, would they stick it next to the city, so they didn't have to run powerlines.

If they built another coal/oil burning power plant, would they build it next to the city.

Any power plant being built would be put out in the no-mans-land of CA.. Nobody wants to live next to it, and nobody would want their property values down-graded by having one built next their house..

After doing a little look up on this state park, one of the largest desert parks in CA. It seems to have two large golf course right in the middle of it "Borrego Springs Resort" and "Rams Hill Country Club" that the boarders of the state park surround. My understanding golf courses are not very environmental. Using tons of water, fertilizer, and such..

As for roof top Solar, that is great, however, it comes down to a grid system, and all kinds of power management on the local level.. Then of course there is the liability (suing when a kid gets hurt messing with it on his house 25kw), insurance (when the thing damages your roof in a bad storm), the eye sore (did you see the size of that reflector/panel)and many other things.. maybe they might have better luck asking SanDiego'ins if they would like subsidies for purchasing one and putting one on their house. eliminating state risk.

Or maybe that judge would like it on her house..

Concentrated solar vs distributed
By kontorotsui on 11/7/2008 3:55:35 AM , Rating: 2
Isn't one of the benefits of solar power to be distributed everywhere the sun shines enough?
The most overlooked statement about solar power is that has zero transportation costs and no investments in power infrastructure.
I don't agree with the judge ruling, but in my opinion solar power is better used with solar panels (thermal and photovoltaics) on each roof, be it industrial, commercial or residential (Simcity rules :) ).

By Murloc on 11/7/2008 10:30:20 AM , Rating: 2
this a solar concentration system, you can't distribuite it.
It's better than photovoltaic and it doesn't requires silicon for doing the panels.

The thermal panels should be in everyone's roofs, you can heat water without wasting money.

I love it
By mendocinosummit on 11/6/2008 10:00:35 AM , Rating: 1
I love it how one pissed off hippie with dough can impede the advancement of America and greater need of the people. Coal, nuclear, and now solar all are bad for the environment, even in a desert, according to many groups. They actually don't give a shit. All they want is their quarter cent per kW/h settlement and that is why America is were it is today.

RE: I love it
By wordsworm on 11/6/2008 8:20:48 PM , Rating: 2
She's not impeding the solar panels, it's the powerlines that she's against.

What I hate is how trailer trash with cash treats the environment like their own toilet bowl. Most hippies want progress as much as everyone, but not at the expense of the environment. They want technology as much as anyone. They just don't like the idea of causing mass extinctions, global warming, deforestation, etc. If we put an effort behind green technologies, even if they're at a greater cost to human effort, that just means more jobs anyways. What's wrong with that? Doing things right often costs more, takes more effort, and is generally harder to implement. Nonetheless, it's very important that we not rape nature to get what we want.

What is wrong with you people?
By NicePants42 on 11/6/08, Rating: 0
RE: What is wrong with you people?
By teldar on 11/6/2008 2:09:13 PM , Rating: 2
I believe the Sterling Power Systems are only in on it to build the hardware for the site, not the transmission lines. That's the parent electrical company who would be building the lines.

By andrinoaa on 11/6/2008 4:54:40 PM , Rating: 1
its obvious that the people here are just venting their biased redneck spleens. These people react the way GW Bush ran the country, All kick and no THOUGHT PROCESS. Didn't these guys learn anything at school? They keep chanting the same bullshit about enviromentalists. Do we say "line up all the neocons and shoot them " ? After all, just look at the mess they left everyone. I just don't understand this "intellectual desert" mentality that is so prevalent on this tech blogg.

By Suntan on 11/6/2008 1:00:05 PM , Rating: 3
So a whole bunch of people all decide to grossly overpopulate a large and relatively remote, hot, dry, stretch of land. Procede to further cut themselves off by allocating most of the land surrounding it to National Parks/Forests, then bellyache when someone else can't provide them with all the convienences they need to live life the way they want to while not messing up anything they have already grown accustomed to...

Gotta love California.


It's idiots like this
By qdemn7 on 11/6/2008 10:29:40 AM , Rating: 2
That make normal people want to do bodily harm to environmentalists.

By SectionEight on 11/6/2008 11:05:39 AM , Rating: 2
Aside from everything else Congress has done, or failed to do, this is probably the worst: failing to protect new energy sources from situations like this. When nuclear power was on its way to becoming our dominant energy source, Congress failed to pass legislation protecting the plants from frivolous lawsuits. As a result, people filed lawsuit after lawsuit while the plants were being built, causing them to sit idle and rack up billions of dollars in interest on the loans. Many companies gave up; those that fought every lawsuit did prevail, but ended up with debts twice what they planned for and should have had.

Now that Congress wants us to get more energy from renewable sources, they have failed to protect these sources from similar situations. Nuclear, solar, wind, and hydro power aren't cheap, but the failure of our government to protect the investments of the companies from frivolous lawsuits will mean we will be using established energy sources until we run out or Congress wises up and decides to protect what they mandate we build.

By raphd on 11/6/2008 11:06:50 AM , Rating: 2
"activist judge"
By VooDooAddict on 11/6/2008 1:16:24 PM , Rating: 2
"activist judge" - I'm getting sick of this description and the way it's thrown around.

The issue here isn't the judge it's the over-reaching environmental laws.

Ironic as hell
By Balgarath on 11/6/2008 5:09:26 PM , Rating: 2
Am I the only one finding humor in the fact proclaimed environmentally friendly solar panels are being gunned down by other environmentalists?

How hard would it be?
By wordsworm on 11/6/2008 8:12:21 PM , Rating: 2
How hard would it be to set up a hydrogen generator here? Ok, so you'd have to import some water on some trucks. Seems to me this would be the perfect opportunity to create a gasoline alternative.

By Graviton on 11/6/2008 9:53:40 PM , Rating: 2
This judge needs to determine if laws are being broken or if laws are unconstitutional and hand down judgments accordingly. That's it. If she wishes to set policy, then she should have become a legislator.. not a judge. The other branches of government and the people of her state should rightfully be horrified at any judge so drunk on power. Sadly, there are many more out there just like her..

That's liberals for you
By phxfreddy on 11/6/2008 11:23:34 PM , Rating: 2
Complain complain complain....even when there are NO side effects. The power line issue is an imagined one. At worst a cosmetic issue and nothing else. Were I a Stalinist I would take them out and shot them in the head. Oh wait Obama is a Stalinist. Yay!

I am not sure....
By TomCorelis on 11/8/2008 4:27:30 PM , Rating: 2
...but I think I just wrote off environmentalists completely.

I live in San Diego county. We need this electricity. You don't want to run it through Anza-Borrego? Fine. Re-route it. Stuff like this needs to be built, now.

By Atlantys on 11/9/2008 3:58:20 PM , Rating: 2
Think that judge start to be mental retarded and the only alternative will be ,send to the Nursing home and replaced by a healthy mind one and this must happen fast .

desert enviromentalism
By trashx1 on 11/6/2008 4:00:01 PM , Rating: 1
first off,this is fucking great that a federal judge scrapheaped this plan as for a multitude of reasons that have been explained allready

By on 11/6/08, Rating: -1
RE: interesting
By JediJeb on 11/6/2008 12:14:27 PM , Rating: 2
Sterling engines don't use solar cells, read up on them. The manufacture of solar cells has nothing to do with this project. It's nothing more than a bunch of steam engines heated by the sun to make electricity.

