Talk:Uchiha Clan/Archive 1

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Useful Info

There is some good info here that's been translated from the databook that we could have added to the article. Namely I see some stuff about the Military Police Force there. ~NOTASTAFF Daniel Friesen (DanTMan, Nadir Seen Fire) (talk) current discussion Dec 10, 2007 @ 05:18 (UTC)


Shouldn't the "C" in clan be capitilized since it is specifically the Uchiha Clan? 07:57, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

Clan is not a proper noun, afaik there is no reason for clan to be capitalized. Clan is just something added onto the name to specify what it is, not a hard-written part of the name. "Uchiha clan" could also be referred to as "the Uchihas" or anything else, it's just a different way of saying it, so by no means is it a solid title where the entire thing is capitalized, besides, the lower case word is better for linking. ~NOTASTAFF Daniel Friesen (DanTMan, Nadir Seen Fire) (talk) current discussion Feb 16, 2008 @ 08:16 (UTC)

Who are the Three New Uchiha

A few weeks ago I saw three new Uchiha names on this page. I wanted to wait to see what happened with the names, but nothing did. I went to check this website called and the Uchiha with these names, Hikaku, Setsuna, and Yakumi aren't on there. I was going to delete them, but I thought about talking about them first on here on the discussion page, to find out if anyone might know who they are. Again the names are Hikaku Uchiha, Setsuna Uchiha, and Yakumi Uchiha. Hopemon 21:32, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

I think I have seen them before, and then they was removed because they were fan made. I'm going to remove them, and if they are part of some game, change them back. Jacce 04:36, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

Well Jacce I guess Hikaku, Setsuna, and Yakumi have a spot as an Uchiha. But did they come up in the third data book? Hopemon 04:45, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

I haven't read the book myself, but their pages were made by a trusted member, so I guess I was wrong. Jacce 05:38, 4 March 2009 (UTC)


Ok where did it say they are missing ninja? All of the Uchiha lived in the village and only three have became missing ninja. (Sasuke Uchiha, Itachi Uchiha, and Madara Uchiha) All of the Uchiha clan cannot be missing if they all was in the village till they got killed by Itachi and Madara. Can someone tell me where or when it said they were all missing. Hopemon 18:19, 11 January 2009 (UTC)

  • it ment all of the survivors of clan massacre

Uchiha Clan Breeding

Hopefully this doesn't offend anyone, but it seems, at least in Itachi's case, the Uchiha clan might practice Incest as when Madara told Sasuke about Itachi's orders, he told that Itachi even killed his lover, so this meant that she was an Uchiha as well. Though I know that it probably shouldn't be mentioned, should we put this on the Uchiha Clan page? - Juubi no Ryuu

No, that's speculation, and poorly reasoned at that. Being part of the clan doesn't imply any relation that could be considered incest. Family has two children, those children have children with someone else, and those children have children with someone else, then one of those children marries one of the other ones. By that point in time they are distant relatives, not even cousins, yet they are part of the same clan. This is something that is known to happen throughout history, noble families have done this for centuries in the past to keep their family blood line "pure" by marrying within the distant family. This is nothing new or unexpected for a clan like the Uchiha, though at the same time you could just chalk this up as Itachi going out with another unrelated clan member. ~NOTASTAFF Daniel Friesen (DanTMan, Nadir Seen Fire) (talk) Apr 17, 2009 @ 02:03 (UTC)

Indeed, it's just speculation, I mean I'm no moderator or anything but I'm pretty sure speculations are not allowed to be posted on an article. It needs to be confirmed in some way, though in Japanese culture cousins do commonly marry/ breed, but we don't know if Kishimoto adapted that feature for the Uchiha (we're sure by speculation but no proof).--Artist of Flash (talk) 11:39, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Yes and it also links back to the definition of clan. A group of people united by actual or percieved kinship and descent meaning that there are 3 ways to become part of a clan. 1. One or both of your parents where part of the clan. 2. Marrying into the clan. 3. If not related to any member of the clan by blood, accepted as part of the clan by any of its members. The last two mean that not all members of a clan have to be related by blood therefore inbreeding is an option but not a necessity to reproduction of the clan. WolfMaster (talk) 00:10, February 14, 2010 (UTC)


There may be Uchiha in Kirigakure since Madara was there —This unsigned comment was made by (talkcontribs) .

Since its never been shown, or been mentioned, there's no point..-- AlienGamer--Talk-- 08:28, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

I agree cuz the only Uchiha who've been near Kirigakure were Madara and Sasuke.—This unsigned comment was made by Amaterasu789 (talkcontribs) .

Adding Rinnegan Icon

Should we add a Rinnegan icon, it seems that Sharingan was derived from Rinnegan according to Madara's story.—This unsigned comment was made by (talkcontribs) .

No since no Uchiha's have ever been seen with the Rinnegan. Doing that would cause a lot of unnecessary confusion...--AlienGamer--Talk (contribs)-- 13:49, September 5, 2009 (UTC)

Uchiha Shrine

I'm not sure if this is stated somewhere already but the Shrine under the Uchiha house seen multiple times in Sasuke's flashbacks has some signifigants. If its not stated anywhere I think a page or something like that should be made. It seems important and has been pointed out multiple times.--KingBarragan, Rest in Peace (talk) 10:53, October 9, 2009 (UTC)

Hyuga's Offspring?

Kay, now it's 1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000% clear where the Uchiha clan came from. Then why "Kakashi explained that the Uchiha Clan was an offspring of Hyuga Clan."?--Narutodude (talk) 02:31, October 16, 2009 (UTC)Narutodude

Because Kakashi explained that the Uchiha clan are thought to be the descendants of the Hyūga clan. Something that can still be true, even with the recent revelations. --ShounenSuki (talk | contribs) 16:45, October 16, 2009 (UTC)

dont think so uchia and senju connected and from rinnegan but come on hyuga was there at the time as rinnegan we dont know when they came to the village uchia were there from the beginning so we can easily say that hyuga came from them due to know facts they been longerthen uchia first was the son of rinnegan user i think kakashi was talking about rumors but hey no one knew the rinnegan exist except jiraya so they dont know whole trueth of it—This unsigned comment was made by (talkcontribs) .

Uchiha and Senju do "connect" as you say, but you don't know how many Mutations this went through before it became this. Saying that they weren't there (which is an assumption since we still don't know everything) isn't correct and as such, Kakashi's words still stand.--Cerez365 Hyūga Symbol 20:33, August 2, 2011 (UTC)

no they have no standing at all kakashi is no uchia he would not no there history only uchia members like sasuke itachi in madara would take him for his word alone is crazy the creator probably was gonna link them but then change like he change deidara to having a kekei genkai explosion release if you ask me i think hyuga came from another dojutsu thats not reveal yet beside kakashi untrue words theres no connection madara did not mention them there even mention in the past they probably to leaf from another village ( (talk) 01:32, October 2, 2011 (UTC))

Kakashi said the Uchiha were thought to be offspring of the Hyūga, it was never said that they were confirmed as such. And what others said before still stands, there are ways the Uchiha could be off-spring of the Hyūga. They could have branched from the older son's line before that line became known as Uchiha, for example. Deidara having kekkei genkai in no way contradicts anything ever said about him either when you actually put some thought in it. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 01:51, October 2, 2011 (UTC)

kakashi said himself these are rumors people probably thought cause see uchia bad hyuga and thought uchia was hyuga offspring this is nothing but a rumor they have never mention with uchia senju i think you guys are just holding to this cause kakashi said it face facts that is not true we have more than enough information to prove its not ( (talk) 01:56, October 2, 2011 (UTC))

Evidence such as?--Cerez365Hyūga Symbol 02:02, October 2, 2011 (UTC)
Like I said, nothing said so far invalidates people thinking that Uchiha are descended from the Hyūga, you're not grasping that. And absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence, so there's still the possibility of a connection between those two clans. We cover information from all points in the series, so if at one point that was said, we cover it. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 02:06, October 2, 2011 (UTC)

a rumor is evidence you take kakashi words you guys just want a connection between but the connection only is senju uchia rinnegan only mada does not even mention them they could have come from another village before going to leaf my side still stands i see your points but theres not gonna be a connection rumors are always lies they could have byakugan with rinnegan ( (talk) 02:14, October 2, 2011 (UTC))

You're still not getting it. Let me put it this way: nothing said so far in the entire manga proves that the Uchiha aren't and weren't ever related to the Hyūga, that says they're not related beyond any argumentation. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 02:22, October 2, 2011 (UTC)

controlling the the tailed beasts

is it just madara or any uchiha can control the tailed beasts or at least the kyuubi? -- (talk) 19:50, January 14, 2010 (UTC)


The relationship between sharingan and tailed beasts still seems to me quite obscure. It seems that Sasuke can somehow supress the ninetails chakra in naruto. It also seems that Madara needed the mangekyo if not the eternal mangekyo sharingan to control de nine tails. And it is also unclear if he could summon it with the summoning jutsu. Madara also tells that the reason the uchiha became feared and segregated in konoha was because of the power to control the tailed beasts. Maybe it is simply because thanks to their natural talent with genjutsu they could easily gain control over the beasts as sasuke does with manda???Neji uchiha (talk) 04:00, February 22, 2010 (UTC)


Does anyone have a picture of the old Uchiha clan from Shippuuden 140 "Fate" that could replace the manga scan? Just asking. —This unsigned comment was made by Kusarigama (talkcontribs) .

Look at this. Thanks. ¥ Super Novice Talk 2 Me ¥ 02:55, April 14, 2010 (UTC)

Sasori's Puppets

Shouldn't the two puppets Sasori had that have Sharingan count as deceased members?Amaterasu789 (talk) 00:52, November 16, 2010 (UTC)


if the uchiha clan were descendants of the older brother, why is their kekeigenkai not the rinnegan? also i didnt know that only a few people the the villiage had the capability to achieve the sharingan, is tha because only one of an uchiha's parents are descended from the older brother? I actually have more questions about the whole clan thing and breeding and descendants and stuff but thinking up all these questions gets annoying. Dj q-pid (talk) 16:17, October 10, 2010 (UTC)

The rinnegan mutated into the sharingan over time. Even the elder brother already had a spiral instead of rings like the Sage had. The capacity to activate the sharingan is likely based on whether or not it got passed down (like you say, only one of the parents may be a descendant in some cases), whether the person has strong enough chakra to (one could genetically have it, but just be too weak), and so on. ZeroSD (talk) 19:36, October 10, 2010 (UTC)

What about the Hyuga Clan? Shouldn't the byakugan mutate into the sharingan?Amaterasu789 (talk) 20:33, October 29, 2010 (UTC)

Female Sharingan Users

hey who deleted the thing about me saying theres no female uchia with Sharingan its true no lie you all no this im putting it back cause its a fact that theres no uchia whos female with sharingan and dont bring in fanon crap or video games cause those are not canon —This unsigned comment was made by (talkcontribs) .

We've seen a total of two female Uchiha, neither of which was in a combat situation. How do you know if they didn't have the Sharingan? Even if they didn't, how do you know no female Uchiha has it? Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. —ShounenSuki (talk | contribs | translations) 00:34, August 3, 2011 (UTC)
Wait 2 O.o --Cerez365 Hyūga Symbol 00:36, August 3, 2011 (UTC)
Nevermind, I forgot about Uruchi.--Cerez365 Hyūga Symbol 00:45, August 3, 2011 (UTC)

how you dont know those 2 female uchia were not married an the family is there proof that they were born in the family im putting it back cause you guys cant find evidence that they were blood uchia which is how you get sharingan —This unsigned comment was made by (talkcontribs) .

In any case, unless it was stated by Kishimoto that women cannot/ do not wield the dōjutsu, it's considered junk trivia.--Cerez365 Hyūga Symbol 01:13, August 3, 2011 (UTC)

wow so you have know proof that they were not married into the family the sharingan has to be awaken unlike the byakugan so if they did not activate they dont have so tell me how you know have it then or uchia by blood then cause you dont but you know i will just theres currently no living female uchia alive yet cause its a fact in you know it so its going there —This unsigned comment was made by (talkcontribs) .

why delete my thing its all true madara in his brother were the only ones with enternal there has never been an female uchia with Mangekyō Sharingan or Enternal Mangekyō Sharingan and thats true no female uchia has been mention to have and no female uchia is alive im putting it back do not delete its true thank you —This unsigned comment was made by (talkcontribs) .

If we included every trivia point like this, we'd have so much information we could split it all in a separate article. Most of those are coincidences and don't add anything to the article. Do not put it back. And only Madara (and now Sasuke) are the ones with Eternal Mangekyō. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 01:36, August 3, 2011 (UTC)

people need to know that theres has never been an female uchia with Mangekyō Sharingan or Enternal Mangekyō Sharingan if that you guys did not trivia full than why have it any way in whats so special about those trivias oh an yeah im putting it back cause its true in fact and damn how i forget sasuke has EMS —This unsigned comment was made by (talkcontribs) .

Please sign your posts, just put ~~~~ at the end of your post. No female with the Mangekyō because very few people ever got it. It's like pointing out that there has been no female with the Rinnegan, or no male with Boil Release. Pointless. The fact no female has it can quickly be understood by reading the infobox, so no point in actually spelling that out. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 01:47, August 3, 2011 (UTC)

It's just odd to me that people wouldn't be able to come to that realisation from reading the article or drawing their own conclusions the way you have.--Cerez365 Hyūga Symbol 01:48, August 3, 2011 (UTC)
I would once again like to point out that there is zero evidence of no woman ever having activated the Sharingan, the Mangekyō Sharingan, and/or the eternal Mangekyō Sharingan. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. —ShounenSuki (talk | contribs | translations) 10:41, August 3, 2011 (UTC)

are you gonna list rinnegan

are you guys gonna list rinnegan has there kekei genkai ( (talk) 19:12, October 19, 2011 (UTC))

No. One of them awakened it, and we don't know how or why. They weren't known for Rinnegan like the Senju were known for Hashirama's Wood Release. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 22:40, October 19, 2011 (UTC)

It has been pretty much hinted and stated by Kabuto and Madara that in the Uchiha clan only a EMS user can awaken it, so once Sasuke awakens it you should put it in there. ItachiWasAHero (talk) 07:23, October 26, 2011 (UTC)

We also don't know how or why or if Hashirama had to awaken the Wood Release. So whatever Kekkei Genkai that a clan member has should be listed in the Clan page even if its a exclusive for one member. So Sasuke's blaze release and The Rinnegan should be added to the Uchiha page, and the Rinnegan should be added to the Uzumaki page. ItachiWasAHero (talk) 07:36, October 26, 2011 (UTC)

I added the Rinnegan since it has Shown up in at least one member of the clan, now a section needs to be made for it more specifically. ItachiWasAHero (talk) 07:43, October 26, 2011 (UTC)

And I removed it since we don't know exactly how he got it or even if other clan members would be able to do the same. His and Nagato's case are basically the same. Something like that warrants input from other editors at the least.--Cerez365Hyūga Symbol 11:35, October 26, 2011 (UTC)

Yeah your right, I cold of sworn I removed it myself or maybe that was just on the Uzumaki Page I removed it after I added it? Until ShounenSuki gets the raw and confirms things this cannot be confirmed 100% it self. ItachiWasAHero (talk) 18:57, October 26, 2011 (UTC)

" would be able to do the same." That argument is invalid, as we don't know if other clan members can use Wood Release in the Senju clan, or if other clan members can use Blaze Release in the Uchiha clan. So you either take away wood release and blaze release off of the clan pages, or you add Rinnegan to the clan pages. Its a conflict of general agreement and why some of you on here are being bias to the fact. ItachiWasAHero (talk) 19:01, October 26, 2011 (UTC)

Wood Release is only listed in the Senju clan article because their leader was highly famed for the kekkei genkai and because that's part of their namesake. So far, everything the Uchiha have done roots back to the Sharingan. Think of it as Blaze Release being to MS what MS is to Sharingan. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 22:02, October 26, 2011 (UTC)

That would be incorrect until Databook info is made supporting that, the only thing it has been hinted to be is an ability of Sasuke's left Mangekyo eye I think it was, nobody elses. Sasuke has Tsukuyomi, Amaterasu and Kagutsuchi because of of Itachi sealing Amaterasu the technique itself in his eye. Giving him 3 techniques instead of 2, there for it is not a clan Kekkei Genkai, but a Individual Kekkei Genkei. Which means you cannot list that on the clan page the same way you can't list the Mangekyo techniques on the clan page or Shikotsumyaku on the Kaguya clan page since it was said he was the only on to have the ability in his clan from what I remember which is why Orochimaru wanted his body, and also it is not the same difference as the Sharingan to the Mangekyo Sharingan. It is simply a technique given to him by his Mangekyo. But this is up for debate so ShounenSuki and the other admins need to read this and help decide on it. ItachiWasAHero (talk) 03:07, October 27, 2011 (UTC)

@ItachiWasAHero No, no, no. Sasuke doesn't have Tsukoyomi, Amaterasu because of Itachi. Itachi only sealed Amaterasu into his eye for a one-time use against Madara. He awakened his Mangekyo upon learning the truth behind Itachi. And Kagutsuchi is just the shape manipulation of Amaterasu (Blaze Release) It is not a separate technique granted by his Mangekyo. Skitts (talk) 03:30, October 27, 2011 (UTC)

First off I never said he got Tsukuyomi from Itachi, only Amaterasu. Secondly C states clearly it must be his 1 eye's own ability. BLAZE RELEASE is granted by his Mangekyo, making it EXCLUSIVE to him, NO OTHER MANGEKYO USER HAS BEEN SHOWN OR STATED to be able to use it. He sealed the TECHNIQUE AMATERASU IN Sasuke's eye. It may have been for that one time use, but who's to say it did not trigger an awakening of the technique in his Mangekyo, there is no proof to deny that, and in fact more hints to prove it. Kagutsuchi IS the BLAZE RELEASE. everything hints to that and until I am proven wrong I won't believe otherwise. ItachiWasAHero (talk) 03:51, October 27, 2011 (UTC)

First off, stop using all caps. It's the internet equivalent of yelling.

And you're incapable of proving what you're saying. Itachi did not give Sasuke Amaterasu. If you remember, Itachi's Mangekyo appeared in Sasuke's eye and used Amaterasu. If it had been Sasuke's Mangekyo that activated to use it on Tobi, what you're saying might be true.

It's not that hard to believe that Sasuke and Itachi just have the same Mangekyo abilities. As we've seen, their skill with their abilities is different entirely, along with the eye used for Tsukiyomi and Amaterasu. Itachi's Tsukiyomi was far above Sasuke's, while Sasuke's Amaterasu was far above Itachi's, hence Blaze Release.

There is no reason to believe that Blaze Release is an ability granted by his Mangekyo Sharingan. And to be honest, we don't have to prove that it isn't. You have to prove that it is, which you have not done yet. Ryne 91 (talk) 04:29, October 27, 2011 (UTC)

Show me another Uchiha who can use blaze release YOU CAN'T, but I can show you 6 Uchiha who can use the Mangekyo Sharingan and 2 who can use the Eternal Mangekyo, also I can point out many more who have the normal Sharingan. Blaze release has not been stated to be used or seen being used by ANY other Uchiha, Itachi never used it. Sasuke on the other hand closes one eye when using it, the opposite eye of the one C says it originates from. All hints by actions and statements are only proving it to be Sasuke exclusive. I don't care if I am using the equivalent of yelling, you people simply aren't understanding the point I am trying to get across. And the clan is NOT known for Blaze Release. It is known for fire techniques demon windmill shuriken techniques, genjutu, and the Sharingan, NOT blaze release. So why is it on the Clan Page? Unless you people want to stop beingf biased and put the rinnegan on the uchiha page and on the uzumaki page. think of what I typed here. ItachiWasAHero (talk) 04:38, October 27, 2011 (UTC)

Be civil. There is no excuse for being discourteous in this situation.

Did you know that if I went to the scientific community and told them that my name was on the back of Pluto, they wouldn't believe me unless I gave them proof? Hints, suggestions, and possibilities wouldn't convince them, and it won't convince any of us in this case.

All you've proven is that Sasuke has more control over Amaterasu than Itachi did, which was pretty much common knowledge. As far as I can gather, Blaze Release is just manipulation of Amaterasu, thus it is directly related to the Mangekyo Sharingan while not actually being an ability specific to a single person.

And before you try to claim that only Itachi can use it, let me ask you a question. Have you see any of Madara's Mangekyo abilities other than Susanoo? Have you seen any of Izuna's Mangekyo abilities? Can you, with absolute certainty, say that Shisui only had one Mangekyo ability? Can you, with absolute certainty, say that Kakashi's Mangekyo is only capable of Kamui?

Until we know all of those answers, it is speculation to say that Blaze Release isn't an Uchiha clan Kekkei Genkai.

And before you bring up the Rinnegan again, let me remind you that Madara is not a typical Uchiha, especially if he has Hashirama's cells like Tobi claimed, and Nagato's Rinnegan was said to be given to him by Tobi. Until Kishimoto reveals how both characters obtained their Rinnegan, it would be speculation to say that it is the kekkei genkai of either clan. Ryne 91 (talk) 04:57, October 27, 2011 (UTC)

Fire Release, and the Uchiha.

Fire Release should be added to all Uchiha. As Tsunade backed up the statement that ALL Uchiha have fire release in chapter 562, when saying since Madara is an Uchiha, they need a way to counter his fire release jutsu. So Shisui, Kagami, Mikoto, ALL of them should have fire release added to their page's. ItachiWasAHero (talk) 14:06, November 6, 2011 (UTC)

Mikoto? You don't even know anything of her origin and you're ready to decree that Fire Release be added to her infobox... Anyway, I think simple notations are enough in the relevant articles (Fire Release, Uchiha clan etc) and though I wouldn't say no to having it noted in the character's articles. It's a somewhat tedious(?) topic but this does seem like a case similar to the Hydrification Technique and the Hōzuki but it seems problematic because fire release is more "general"--Cerez365Hyūga Symbol 14:17, November 6, 2011 (UTC)

How is this problematic? Mikoto is a Jonin. Tsunade, the manga, and the databooks all have stated all Uchiha have to use a fire release technique to be even Genin and to be adults. Therefor all Uchiha who have been even a genin in their life time has fire release, I am not making things up I am simply going by the facts given here through the manga and databooks. Also nobody else has been seen or heard of using the Hydrification technique, it is also labeled a HIDEN technique, which means it is only known and taught to CLAN MEMBERS of a certain clan, which means only the HOZUKI clan knows it. Btw I am not shouting, the capitalize words are simply bold to make it more clear so to say ItachiWasAHero (talk) 14:27, November 6, 2011 (UTC)

To me, it seems that Fire Release is characteristic of the Uchiha in the same way red hair is characteristic of the Uzumako. Characteristic, but not a rule. Nothing justifies simply adding Fire Release to all Uchiha. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 15:11, November 6, 2011 (UTC)

So, the fact that Mikoto probably married into the family has never crossed your mind? Shouting or not doesn't really concern me but just so you know, the wikia has a bold function. I agree with Omni, it's not like the information is lost on the wikia, it's mentioned in all the relevant area and referenced as well.--Cerez365Hyūga Symbol 15:17, November 6, 2011 (UTC)

It has never been said that the Uchiha needed to know Fire Release before being able to become genin. That would be rather cruel, seeing how elemental techniques are all chūnin-level and up. Learning Fire Release was a rite of passage; it marked someone as an adult, rather than a child. There are still plenty of possibilities for an Uchiha not to have learnt Fire Release, though; be it out of rebelliousness or physical inadequacy, not to mention those Uchiha who were simply civilians.
And as Cerez365 said, Mikoto could easily have been from outside the clan. —ShounenSuki (talk | contribs | translations) 15:39, November 6, 2011 (UTC)

Didn't we go over not using this as a general talk page for articles that already exist? :? SimAnt 18:20, November 6, 2011 (UTC)

Moving discussion.--Cerez365Hyūga Symbol 12:18, November 7, 2011 (UTC)

I doubt she is from outside the clan, and I didn't see this article anywhere else. (talk) 21:32, November 6, 2011 (UTC)

@Above That's because it hasn't been stated. We don't know if she's from the clan because she's a woman, hence her last name changed (duh). It was mentioned because it was foolish to assume she was a part of the clan and add Fire Release to her natures based on that. Skitts (talk) 21:36, November 6, 2011 (UTC)

It is foolish to assume she is not from the clan too. This is another case where databook and manga evidence needs to be used and found. Which, by the way you above me will not find any to support what you said either. (talk) 04:44, November 7, 2011 (UTC)

Not really. I never assumed that she was or wasn't an Uchiha. The foolish thing to do here is to assume that she is an Uchiha and thus she can use Fire Release. I don't need to find evidence against in this case because there is none to find, thus saying she has it is speculation. This is a question about her having something that she was never stated or shown to have and an assumption that because she is in a clan (not necessarily from it) that she possesses a certain nature. Skitts (talk) 05:34, November 7, 2011 (UTC)

No, we're to all assume that people within Naruto only marry within their clans when only one person has been shown to do so and another clan assumed to do so as well as far as I can remember.--Cerez365Hyūga Symbol 12:18, November 7, 2011 (UTC)

We dont know if Uchiha breeded between themselves for generations ... theres no evidence that Mikoto is an Uchiha by blood. By your logic Minato must be an Uzumaki as well because his wife and son are named so, and because he can use some sealing techniques of the clan. So even if Mikoto is Uchiha, its not a must for her to have a fire release since it looks like she was more of a housewoman and this coming of age thing was more of a boy becoming a man. And also even if she is not Uchiha by blood, thats not an evidence for her not to have fire release and fireball technique either, since users outside of the clan were seen using it ... although it was only in anime --Elveonora (talk) 17:22, November 7, 2011 (UTC)

@Elveonora I guess you didn't notice that Cerez was being sarcastic. :) Skitts (talk) 19:22, November 7, 2011 (UTC)

You people really aren't that sharp are you. (talk) 19:31, November 7, 2011 (UTC)

Actually, I'd say that most of the regulars here are quite sharp. However, unlike you, we don't feel the need to assume things to be true when no evidence exists. We don't know if she is a native clan member, and if that is uncertain, there is no reason to add Fire Release to her infobox. Skitts (talk) 19:41, November 7, 2011 (UTC)

That's the most laughable statement i've heard in a while... Anyway, Skitts, please to stop responding to him. This is a regular thing for him that will turn out to be nothing but a total waste of your time when there are vandals afoot.--Cerez365Hyūga Symbol 19:52, November 7, 2011 (UTC)

Ah, didn't realize he did this often. Nice picture. xD Skitts (talk) 19:54, November 7, 2011 (UTC)

Member article protection

Given that (for now) the articles for these members are "complete" I'm putting in a petition for the protection on the articles be upped a little more. Because of the whole Tobi thing, vandals feel compelled to come an interject their opinions in them. Some of the articles just have a string of the same types of revisions being undone.--Cerez365Hyūga Symbol 15:29, April 7, 2012 (UTC)

I'm not a vandal. I'm not making such edit and that's why I'm discussing it. You know ... --Elveonora (talk) 15:44, April 7, 2012 (UTC)

Wasn't referring to you though friend. If I were I would have spoken to you directly.--Cerez365Hyūga Symbol 15:50, April 7, 2012 (UTC)

I see. This is not "who Tobi is" speculation on my side. Just I find it hard to believe him not being an Uchiha. I know Itachi is a liar and all, but he said there's a 2nd Uchiha survivor and since he lied it was Madara, it must be Tobi. All the mastery, power, knowledge of his and he even has a fan similar to one that Madara used and Uchiha Crest on his clothes. --Elveonora (talk) 15:57, April 7, 2012 (UTC)

Izanagi and Izanami

Should not we add into infobox of each "Uchiha Clan" I thought once were clan techniques affiliated to the clans --Elveonora (talk) 16:29, May 23, 2012 (UTC)

You mean state that each Uchiha can use it or have it show up in the clan's infobox? --Cerez365Hyūga Symbol(talk) 16:39, May 23, 2012 (UTC)

"Uchiha Clan" in infobox of each technique, or all Sharingan unique powers in Uchiha Clan infobox.--Elveonora (talk) 21:14, May 23, 2012 (UTC)

That's not done for techniques that stem from kekkei genkai only hiden ones. They're shown on the kekkei genkai's article (hence the eye) beside the techniques.--Cerez365Hyūga Symbol(talk) 21:29, May 23, 2012 (UTC)

Oh, I see. Just thought it should be treated as "Uchiha techniques" since apparently everyone can use it unlike MS techniques and maybe my memory is wrong, but I thought once the clan affiliation was being listed in infobox--Elveonora (talk) 22:20, May 23, 2012 (UTC)

Uchiha clan in movies

Hey, I was just wondering, it says that Uchiha also came in the movies. Does it mean that the entire Uchiha clan came in the movies or just Sasuke uchiha? ~NOTASTAFF

I'm assuming it's just [a] member(s). I don't remember seeing anyone's entire clan in any movie.--Cerez365Hyūga Symbol(talk) 10:27, June 18, 2012 (UTC)


That Tobi's jutsu, Uchiha Flame Battle Encampment, is considered an Uchiha technique, but he is not currently classified as an Uchiha. Say what you want, but there is more evidence that suggests he is a member of the clan than not. The only thing that discriminates him from being a member is that he is not who he claimed to be, despite never mentioning the name "Madara", to our knowledge, to Itachi at all.

Though, I guess I should just be patient since his identity is supposedly going to be revealed within the coming weeks. --Uchiha Suraku (talk) 05:52, August 2, 2012 (UTC)

The latter would be preferred. It's marked an Uchiha technique because of its name, nothing more.--Cerez365Hyūga Symbol(talk) 10:25, August 2, 2012 (UTC)

You never know. He might be an Uchiha, and if so, he's more than likely is Kagami. --X29 15:17, August 2, 2012 (UTC)

@Cerez So non-Uchiha can use their techniques now? A Sharingan or the standard Fireball technique are exceptions as the former can be transplanted and the latter is not exclusive to the Uchiha, but this jutsu has the damn clan name in the technique name. But evidently he isn't an Uchiha, just using Uchiha abilities, wearing their clothes, and knows practically everything there is to know about the clan.

Just pointing out how outrageous and absurd this sounds. Good day. --Uchiha Suraku (talk) 17:45, August 2, 2012 (UTC)

Not really outrageous. It's possible. --X29 17:52, August 2, 2012 (UTC)

At what point exactly have you seen me nor anyone else here say he's not an Uchiha? It's a technique, which is not known to be hiden or no known prerequisites or anything like that, of course someone who wanted people to think he's part of the clan could copy it, just as easily as he'd learn how to use a gunbai to further his story. Just as easily as he could be an Uchiha. Kishimoto himself said that we'll known in a few weeks who Tobi is, stop beating this dead horse and wait for it to be buried. Hopefully you won't die from ignorance by then yes? --Cerez365Hyūga Symbol(talk) 18:05, August 2, 2012 (UTC)

By not stating he's an Uchiha on this wikia. You don't have to directly say "Tobi isn't an Uchiha" because your actions (or lack thereof) speak louder than if you said he wasn't a member. But your argument that the pile of evidence and facts don't warrant him to be considered an Uchiha is a bunch of BS, and the only reason you refuse to make the change is because of laziness, or more likely, your own ignorance and bias. You can come up with all of these explanations all you want, but it's all just denial and your own opinions leaking out. The man isn't the original Madara Uchiha, fine. That's been established and any simple-minded dimwit that follows the manga can deduce that. However, had he never identified himself as the clan leader period, his actions and knowledge alone are still more than enough to hold the last name of Uchiha. If you take away a person's name, what makes them who they are? Their blood/DNA? Tobi can use Izanagi. The knowledge of the history of the clan and its members? Tobi has great knowledge of the history of Madara and the clan's history. Clothes? I've already addressed that. Abilities? That was my initial point. Attitude? He holds the clan in high regards and wants to use Sasuke to acknowledge it. Appearance? From what's been shown, he sure looks like an Uchiha.

Just because he isn't the original Madara Uchiha doesn't mean he isn't an Uchiha at all. That's all you've got that leads to him not being a clan member, and everything I just brought up outweighs that fact. --Uchiha Suraku (talk) 19:53, August 2, 2012 (UTC)

All the things you said are all speculation. It's not proven yet that Tobi is an Uchiha. Why haven't we added to his article that he's an Uchiha? 'Cause it's not proven he is one yet. Till Naruto takes off that mask, we can't till who's Tobi. And please, language. Why you ask? 'Cause of the "BS". --X29 20:01, August 2, 2012 (UTC)

No, none of the aforementioned points are speculation at all. All pure, cold, hard facts. Itachi himself, who has a 5 in intelligence in the databook, concluded that Tobi was an Uchiha (NOT yet Madara). So by saying he isn't, you're not only calling Tobi a liar, but Itachi as well. --Uchiha Suraku (talk) 20:09, August 2, 2012 (UTC)

Tobi lied when he said he's Madara Uchiha. Itachi never said Tobi's an Uchiha. He only referred to him as Madara, in which he was mistaken. And the stats in the databooks aren't accurate about the character themselves, even if Kishi published them himself. --X29 20:13, August 2, 2012 (UTC)

See, THAT's speculation. How do you know Tobi is not Madara at all? You don't, so you're theorizing. Itachi said he was Madara, who is an Uchiha, and prior to that, he said this after Tobi questioned him, "...and even look at the secret stone inside Nakano Sanctuary. Only the Uchiha know that place." To which Tobi replied "...You probably know that I'm an Uchiha..." Itachi heavily implied he was an Uchiha, and Tobi just confirmed it. That's practically the exact same thing as Itachi shouting "YOU ARE AN UCHIHA!" --Uchiha Suraku (talk) 20:23, August 2, 2012 (UTC)

From what I see, you're an idiot. Tobi's not Madara Uchiha. Why you ask? 'Cause the real Madara Uchiha is an eternal zombie with his own free will right now. And what assures you Tobi wasn't lying when he met Itachi? Itachi kept referring to him as Madara several times, most noticeable when he was present with Nagato and Naruto in the war. --X29 20:29, August 2, 2012 (UTC)

Being open-minded =/= being an idiot. Just because you only see the black and white of situations doesn't mean everyone has to. I could argue that Tobi could very well be a form of Madara, but that would be off topic as that's not what I'm trying to discuss. You just completely disregarded my second point, the main point of this topic, and only addressed about Madara, so I'm choosing to disregard you and my argument still stands. --Uchiha Suraku (talk) 20:35, August 2, 2012 (UTC)

Sighs If your main point's that Tobi's an Uchiha, then I only have this: If you think that what crawls is a bird and what flies is a reptile, I can't stop you. --X29 20:39, August 2, 2012 (UTC)

@X29, that really wasn't an intelligent reply. It's 99% obvious he is an Uchiha, him taking the mask off won't change anything, w have already seen some of his face, it alone doesn't matter. Name is important. Everything suggests him being one, having an Uchiha technique already added more proof to already obvious thing--Elveonora (talk) 21:36, August 2, 2012 (UTC)

Gimme proof that Jutsu belongs to the Uchiha clan, other than it has the name "Uchiha" in it. I ain't gonna lie, I have suspicions on whether he's an Uchiha or not. I'm not saying he is or isn't. Just saying it hasn't been confirmed. --X29 21:44, August 2, 2012 (UTC)

There's no direct translation of Uchiha, is there? Not to mention it was translated directly into English, it doesn't mean 'something" flame battle encampment. It even has the same kanji, thus there's no questioning of it not being an Uchiha Clan technique. Speculating on a reason why would a non-Uchiha use Uchiha technique is speculating. There's more proof now than "we will see, no, etc."--Elveonora (talk) 22:30, August 2, 2012 (UTC)

So, just 'cause it's got Uchiha in it means it's an Uchiha clan Jutsu? Then, why isn't the Shadow Possession Jutsu called Nara Clan Shadow Possession Jutsu? Or why isn't the Fang Over Fang called Inuzuka Clan Fang Over Fang? --X29 22:40, August 2, 2012 (UTC)

Read again, there's no meaning of "Uchiha" with such kanji into English. The reason why the techniques weren't called Nara Clan Shadow Possession Technique and Inuzuka Clan Fang Over Fang Technique is simple, it's their signature so everyone knows only they can do that (being hiden) and it would be too long. There's no doubt for it to be an Uchiha technique, if that's a good enough proof for Tobi being one, then that's for the discussion. It's obvious that Kishi is giving a hints--Elveonora (talk) 23:00, August 2, 2012 (UTC)

Sighs I can continue this discussion, but that'd be such a drag. So, the same thing I said to......... Miss Uchiha (The username) will be said to you. If you think that what crawls is a bird and what flies is a reptile, I can't stop you. --X29 23:09, August 2, 2012 (UTC)

You don't have anything intelligent to say, that's why your answer is about reptile crap, twice. Give me a reason why would a non-Uchiha related technique have "Uchiha" in the naming with the same kanji--Elveonora (talk) 23:15, August 2, 2012 (UTC)

Language. And as I said, I could continue this discussion, but it'd be such a drag. Shikamaru once said something about arguments, which I have a different view of. To me, sometimes arguments are things that girls do. --X29 23:20, August 2, 2012 (UTC)

Enough with this goddamn discussion, we don't know if he's an Uchiha, and he has just as much chance of being one as he has of not being one. Listing him as an Uchiha means he is an Uchiha, not listing him as an Uchiha doesn't strictly mean he's not an Uchiha, it also says he's not revealed as an Uchiha, it leaves the door open for him being one while still being correct with what is known about him. If he is an actual Uchiha by blood when the mask falls, which thank God is soon, because there's only so much of this annihilated horse discussion I can take any more, we will freaking add it. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 02:12, August 3, 2012 (UTC)

Thanks, boss. Hope they get the picture now. --X29 02:15, August 3, 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, Omni had to explain it better because I couldn't comprehend X29's bird and reptile analogy. Seriously :P I'm sorry that it has angered you, just a convo why there's "Uchiha" in Tobi's barrier technique... well, see ya in 2-3 weeks.--Elveonora (talk) 02:48, August 3, 2012 (UTC)

Tobi calls himself an Uchiha in chapter 590. We can't take his word for it? Racht 00:26, August 7, 2012 (UTC)

Since Tobi is going to be revealed soon, the decision was made to wait. But if he turns out to be an Uchiha, I will let Cerez and Omni eat their stubbornness :O--Elveonora (talk) 00:57, August 7, 2012 (UTC)

We have very valid reasons not to believe everything Tobi says. While there are several events that we came to know through him giving them exposition, the topic of his own identity was always something he either lied about, or was very private with. And regarding chapter 590, Tobi was already using Madara's identity, even in secret. When Itachi and Sasuke's discussed the massacre before the fight in which Itachi died, Itachi identified the man as Madara. Either Itachi played along with Tobi, or, as is more likely, he was also fooled by Tobi, who himself said he managed to keep secrets from Itachi. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 01:39, August 7, 2012 (UTC)

Don't really think there's anything I'll "eat" from Tobi being an Uchiha, I'll be satisfied knowing I followed the wiki's protocol. If we were to believe any recent cases of Tobi calling himself an Uchiha then we should just remerge his article with Madara's because that's the guise he was under when he said those things.--Cerez365Hyūga Symbol(talk) 11:23, August 7, 2012 (UTC)

Omni, again you know that Tobi didn't introduce himself as Madara to Itachi. Unless you meant that he did to Kisame before meeting Itachi. Also my opinion only, Itachi lied to Sasuke because he wanted him to kill "Madara" and avenge the Uchiha by doing so. That's why he agreed that "Madara" indeed did help to kill the clan as well + the "greatest Uchiha" talk by taking Sasuke's eyes was also to motivate Sasuke to gain power to defeat "Madara" but not that way, because Sasuke originally said that he has his own way etc. @Dear friend Cerez, it's not about instances when he spoke of himself as Madara, it's about:

  • Uchiha robes
  • Knowledge about more or less Uchiha related&exclusive stuff from long ago to recent, secret tablet included.
  • A technique with Uchiha in it
  • Uchiha Madara-level-like feats and power
  • Hatred for Konoha
  • Plant Hashi Clone
  • Obsession with eyes
  • His appearance, hair IDENTICAL to Uchiha Madara (during Kisame instance) and possibly face similar to Madara (2nd Kisame instance) unless it indeed was the real Madara the first time there
  • If it wasn't for the revelation of the real Madara had been dead as has been revived by Edo, thus Tobi being fake... 90% of the fanbase had no doubt about the man being stating who he is.

Even though we will wait, IMO I think it would be much less speculative to accept him as an Uchiha than to think he might be from some other "x clan" or Ramen Guy or E.T. AND "oh, he still might be Madara's clone or somehow Madara" I disagree, because his dialogue, behavior, style, personality are different from Madara's.

So if it wasn't for some "protocol" and if I was an admin, I would add and list him as the most probable and least speculative case, the obvious.--Elveonora (talk) 18:04, August 7, 2012 (UTC)

Not worthy a new topic, but doesn't Naruto the movie: Road to Ninja confirm that Tobi is indeed an Uchiha since Menma, after merging with Tobi's "ghost" received one?--Elveonora (talk) 21:29, August 7, 2012 (UTC)

No. For all we know, he could have an implanted Sharingan and the result would have been the same. This could turn out to be simply another instance of someone displaying the Sharingan due to being under its influence, like Kurama and Manda have been in the past. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 22:04, August 7, 2012 (UTC)

It's not implanted, "Narubi" actually uses the Sharingan on Naruto, so I wouldn't compare it to a reflection by an influence--Elveonora (talk) 22:24, August 7, 2012 (UTC)

I'd suggest you stick to the fact that he's called himself an Uchiha. It's a much better basis to work off than that list you provided. Firstly, nowhere on this wiki will you find stuff that is presumed speculation to the level of Tobi's identity. The only thing coming close to that is Tsunade's nature transformation and that had to have a databook entry before it was listed as presumed, I fear that if some of you guys were actually admins the wiki would become overrun with speculation and other needle-maybe I should stop here. Now for la lista:

  • Robes - so if Guy during this fight goes and puts on armour with the Senju symbol, he's a Senju? Because blood doesn't matter, it's the clothes you wear. Orrr maybe Tobi should've teleported, changed his clothes and come back when it was revealed to him that they knew he wasn't Madara?
  • What basis are you judging that this stuff is "exclusive"? They're a famous clan with their history well recorded. Also, Tobi and Madara know each other and are/were obviously working together
  • Hatred for Konoha- ok? Unmo Samidare also hated Konoha a great deal. You don't seem to understand how hated the five nations are
  • Again, Tobi and Madara... know each other. How else did he get Hashirama's DNA? Unless you're going to go on to say Hashirama fought two Madaras...
  • A lot of people covet dōjutsu, Orochimaru was also obsessed with the Sharingan. Also how the fart does that obsession point to him being an Uchiha?
  • Really? I thought Madara's hair was long... I believe i already brought up the fact that the two probably look alike... possibly

I'm not pointing out all these things to say that no, tobi is not an Uchiha, but the fact that I can find so many reasons to counter your suggestions on why he is alone, is reason enough not to add him as such. When you can come up with conclusive proof and say <ref>''Naruto'' chapter x, page x</ref> says he's an Uchiha (which will come up in the future) and nobody can say nay to it, then by all means he'll be added as such.--Cerez365Hyūga Symbol(talk) 23:55, August 7, 2012 (UTC)

  • One has to have a hell good reason enough to wear clothes with a family's crest on it, you didn't answer the Uchiha in a technique one. Don't tell me Madara taught him that.

He didn't need Uchiha clothes to have Minato think he is fighting Madara himself, he didn't need them to convince and deceive Itachi, he didn't need them to prove Onoki "I'm Madara", to a person that had fought the real one.

  • Tell me how many people have any knowledge of Izuna, I'm yet to see any mention of him by any other person than Madara, Tobi and Itachi.

The So6p's tablet is a guarded secret by the clan. We don't know their relationship/connection yet, but according to Kishimoto himself, there's one. I wouldn't reveal my clan's secrets to an Inuzuka.

  • Tobi is obsessed with destruction of Konoha, even proclaiming how long he had waited for "that moment" and turning Sasuke into a Konoha hater.
  • Speculation, the real Madara might not even be aware that there's some Hashi plant clone underground or some shit.
  • "The true power of the Sharingan… this is Madara Uchiha's power!"
  • I meant that the man (presumed to had been Tobi) that have controlled Yagura had at that time IDENTICAL hair to Uchiha Madara, like copy and paste.
  • Tobi's ghost possessing Menma in Naruto road to ninja, the latter gaining a Sharingan.

Before you say: "movies aren't canon" the concept still apply to manga as it's Kishi's work.--Elveonora (talk) 00:37, August 8, 2012 (UTC)

  • When Tobi left Mountain Graveyard, he was still "Madara" no? I asked whether or not he should've gone home to change his clothes when he was fond out? As for the technique, I could just tell you that it's possible that it's not hidden and Tobi copied it or learnt it some other way, but we all know why Kishimoto made him use it, simple art of troll.
  • When has the situation called for mention of Izuna, who died before the founding of villages? It's not as though he's obscured, Madara mentioned him to the Kage and no one went "who dat?"
  • Yes, so secret that Kabuto and Orochimaru had a possible peek at it? Remember that the compound lays abandoned now.
  • He said all of those things as Madara no? It could have been a farce just as easily as it could be true.
  • It is true he might not be aware of the plant, but where would Tobi have gotten the DNA from? That'd only lead to even more speculation.
  •  ?
  • Mmk
  • What does Menma have to do with any of this? --Cerez365Hyūga Symbol(talk) 10:11, August 8, 2012 (UTC)

Jutsu List

Any objections to adding Manipulating Windmill Triple Blades and Manipulated Shuriken Technique to the jutsu list? The Uchiha are credited with creating them right? Arrancar79 (talk) 16:18, September 7, 2012 (UTC)

bump Arrancar79 (talk) 19:52, September 7, 2012 (UTC)
Can you find a source that says the Uchiha created it? Because the names are different than what was given in the manga. For the first technique, it says the Sharingan would be required to read the opponent's movements and the latter just sounds like an expert could perform it. But, if there are sources, sure.--Cerez365Hyūga Symbol(talk) 20:03, September 7, 2012 (UTC)
I was basing it off the page. In the Abilities section it says, "They themselves invented many shuriken move sets which required the use of thin metal wires, one example being the Windmill Triple Blades technique." My guess was that information came from a databook. If there really isn't a source for what's in the article I couldn't say. I don't have the resources to check. Arrancar79 (talk) 00:20, September 8, 2012 (UTC)
Oh, okay. Well I guess that could be added. Still not sure about the second technique however.--Cerez365Hyūga Symbol(talk) 11:06, September 9, 2012 (UTC)

Thanks, as far as Manipulated Shuriken Technique I only ask cause it's listed as the parent jutsu and Sasuke was the only one to use it out side of an anime filler. Arrancar79 (talk) 18:09, September 9, 2012 (UTC)

Should we also add izanagi and izanami to the Uchiha clan dojutsu list as well? The reason why i ask is because since the sharingan is originated from the uchiha clan then izanagi and izanami should be listed because one needs a sharingan to bring forth these 2 techniques.--Naruto6paths (talk) 15:06, October 24, 2012 (UTC)

That is for non-Sharingan techniques. Those two are listed in the Sharingan article. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 22:15, October 24, 2012 (UTC)

Where was it discussed to add Fire Release: Great Dragon Fire Technique, Fire Release: Dragon Flame Release Song Technique, Fire Release: Phoenix Sage Fire Technique, and Fire Release: Phoenix Sage Flower Nail Crimson? Aside from Uchiha characters using those jutsu I don't see that they are exclusive to or created by the Uchiha in their articles. Arrancar79 (talk) 23:46, January 7, 2013 (UTC)

^Bump Arrancar79 (talk) 21:40, January 10, 2013 (UTC)
No idea why they were added in the first place. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 23:04, January 10, 2013 (UTC)

Stupid Mistake

I was reverting an anon's vandalism and Firefox deleted the entire page. I'm so sorry and now I can't revert back my edit. Stupid move, I am sorry. Can someone please revert my stupid mistake? --KiumaruHamachi (talk) 21:23, September 23, 2012 (UTC)KiumaruHamachi

The uchiha curse

Shouldn't we mention the full story behind their curse and also explain the way they awaken their sharingan .I mean the second hokage has already explained in the manga that whene they lose a person they care about, their brains ejects a special chakra that changes their eyes (turns to a sharingan) so shouldn't we give a mention to that.--Charmanking2198 (talk) 18:02, February 8, 2013 (UTC)

Yeah, Curse of Hatred in short: If an Uchiha loves but loses it or gets otherwise butthurt, he attains power but loses sanity in return--Elveonora (talk) 18:22, February 8, 2013 (UTC)

Yes i know , but if we can just mention the part where their brain ejects the chakra and everything cuz the way it is described in the article right now is kinda cryptic and insignificant? i guess... so i just hoped we would explain more about how the uchiha awaken their sharingan.--Charmanking2198 (talk) 14:28, February 9, 2013 (UTC)

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