

Unequal Taxes

September 30, 2010 by  





“From each according to his ability, to each according to his need,” wrote Karl Marx in his 1875 Critique of the Gotha Program. That is a central tenet in the communist system and apparently a belief held strongly by Obama and company.

Such a thought is anathema to the beliefs of the Founding Fathers.

"A just security to property is not afforded by that government under which unequal taxes oppress one species of property and reward another species,” wrote James Madison, the father of the Constitution.

The progressive tax system we now live under thanks to the 16th Amendment — which evidence shows was probably not properly ratified — does not provide Americans with “A just security to property.”

For liberty’s sake the entire tax system needs to be replaced. But in the meantime, Congress should immediately offer up a clean bill to extend the Bush-era tax cuts.

Bob Livingston


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  • Bill From N.C.

    Support HR-25 The FairTax Act.

    • Bill From N.C.

      “We don’t need tax cuts,We need tax reform”.Repeal the 16th Amendment,go to a national sales tax HR-25,S-296,and let the people dictate the way they want to spend their money. “Lets make April 15 another beautiful spring day.

      • spike

        Amen, brother.

        • Fed Up Gal in NM

          Bill from NC and Spike,

          You got that right! I’ll just add: http://www.fairtax.org/site/PageServer?pagename=about_main
          for folks to actual review to understand that the Fair Tax plan movement is the closest thing to tax reform and fairness for all. Thanks for your posts :-)

  • Norm

    It’s pretty sad when Warren Buffett pays taxes at a lower rate than his housekeeper. Even he admits embarrassment.
    I think capital gains should be tax free for everyone up until maybe 25k and they should be taxed as normal income, which is what they are.

  • http://bellsouth.net marcy

    I make $50,000. a year. So yes, anyone making $250,000 a year or more to most Americans and myself is rich. We believe the rich
    should pay their fair share.
    I understand your (the rich) living standard is higher than mine, but, that doesn’t mean I should subsidize you.

    • John

      How are you subsidizing the rich? They earn their money, they spend their money. Nobody is taking your money and giving it to them. Perhaps, according to you, the unemployed and those in poverty are subsidizing your standard of living.

    • Mike

      Marcy, I too make around $50,000 per year, but I have to disagree with your definition of “rich”. Personally, I don’t consider someone making even $1Million per year to be rich. With the current tax brackets, this “rich” person is already paying more in taxes than I earn in 5 years. How is some Communist-inspired “redistribution of wealth” plan that would tax such people at an even higher rate “fair” by ANY definition? “Fair” is an equal tax rate for all, with NO exemptions and NO deductions.

      I remember the publicity back in the mid-’70s about Elton John moving out of England because his tax liability at his income level had hit 105% under the tax code in place then. How did this twisted interpretation of “fair share” benefit ANYONE? Instead of 105% of his income, they got NOTHING.

      Remember the Beatles song “Taxman”? The key line referring to their 95% tax bracket at the time was “If 5% appears too small, be thankful I don’t take it all, I’m the Taxman”. The mass exodus of wealthy residents from England resulted in a long-overdue revision of their tax code.

      The much-maligned “upper 2 percent” in this country are already paying around 95% of total tax revenues. The bottom 40% of income earners pay NOTHING. In fact, some of those are even getting “refunds” on the taxes they don’t pay in the first place. Those of us making up the 58% in the middle are paying only 5% of total tax revenues. How is THIS system “fair”?

      While I do believe that everyone should pay their “fair share”, I don’t believe someone who is successful in business should be punished for it. These are the people who provide jobs; who invent and innovate and develop new products and technologies to make our lives better and to raise our standard of living. If they voluntarily choose to “give back”, as with Bill Gates and Warren Buffett, that’s their choice. But I would not begrudge them if they chose not to.

      No one likes to pay taxes, but everyone grudgingly accepts the fact that taxation is necessary to raise revenue to provide essential services. When the tax rate gets too high, that is when people start looking for ways to evade. Thus, giving rise to outsourcing of manufacturing and jobs, offshore bank accounts, and other methods of obscuring and diverting income.

      What “progressives” continually fail to acknowlege is that overall tax revenues INCREASED to record levels when President Reagan slashed the top tax bracket in half. Tax COMPLIANCE also increased to record levels. Why? Because the financial incentive to “shelter” income was removed. It became more economical to pay the lowered rate than to hide the money. And the economy boomed.

      Jim Florio became New Jersey’s first ever single-term Governor when he pushed through the largest tax increase in state history. All of the revenue projections from the increased tax rates proved false, with revenue actually DECREASING instead of increasing. Businesses closed or relocated out of state. Wealthy residents likewise moved out. Net tax revenue plummeted due to the higher rates.

      True fairness in taxation comes from balancing on that tipping point at which the “victims” of taxation grudgingly accept their obligation without looking for a loophole.

      • http://Hotmail Steve

        I would only add to your ideas for a flat rate that there be NO punitive taxes or tax credits.

    • spike

      Why should rich people pay more of their income out? Why should they pay half of what they work for? And, I own a small business. My GROSS income is less than 200,000 per year. Out of that, all of my overhead must come, and that’s 60 percent at least (depends how much fuel and petrolium products have gone up) WHY SHOULD I PAY HALF OF WHAT I HAVE LEFT TO THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT TO SQUANDER AS THEY SEE FIT? I get to touch alot of money every year…But I sure don’t get to keep much of it. Think again, Carl Marx. the “rich” as you call them, should not pay higher tax rates than anyone else. 30 percent of a million is more than 30 percent of 50,000 and I’m just picking 30 percent out of the air. Why should our government get more than l0% of anything anybody in this country does? And why WHY are we giving Indians and immigrants tax free ss that they don’t pay into, and how come all the Dunkin Donuts and 7-ll’s and nail salons change hands every 5-7 years? So THEY DON’T HAVE TO PAY TAXES!!! WISE UP, AMERICA!

    • Fed Up Gal in NM

      Hey Marcy,

      Well….you go girl….at least you’re willing to admit you’re an accomplice to the thieving politicians pushing such an agenda. As much disdain as I have for most politicians these days…I have to admit, I actually hold you at least as responsible (probably more responsible) as the politicians. They’re just sucking up to the rest of the thieves (if the shoe fits, wear it)…to gain votes. Gotta hand it to you….for successfully manipulating others (politicians) to do you own dirty work (steeling from others).

      I don’t make enough more than you to quibble over the amount and I don’t expect those who make more than I do, to have to subsidize me for the difference. No matter how you slice that BS pie you just served up….it still stinks like the maneure that it is.

      If you are truly interested in fairness, you may want to review and consider the Fair Tax plan: http://www.fairtax.org/site/PageServer?pagename=about_main; however, I suspect you are not and that you won’t.

  • Steve Dolyniuk

    Pelosi, & Reid, are Obamas’ puppets. What ever Obama wants, these two brainless people help him get. The wealthy should not have to pay more taxes. They are the people who spend money, start businesses, employ people,& many of them donate very generously to different organizations. The IRS needs to be abolished, & everyone should have to pay an equal percentage of their income for taxes, PERIOD.

  • Dan Burke

    I am a little confused by your comment.

    First, I make 40k a year, so you are rich in comparison to me by that standard. I don’t want your money taxed and given to me. I think that is outright stupid. So saying the rich should pay their fair share makes me wonder how you stand on this. If you like wealth redistribution, then you seem to have your next statement in conflict with this. To what subsidies are your referring to here? See this whole thing about the rich getting taxed to give to the poor means that the guy making 250k is taxed to subsidized “your” living standards supposedly. Now, I am not stupid. I know very well that the recent bailouts were really bailouts for the connected rich, but that doesn’t mean that I then default to the attitude that all rich are guilty and thus should be victims of the same theft we felt. It would perpetuate the cycle of theft and the only ones winning in this stupid game are the politicians.

    So here’s a thought for all those who claim they want the rich to pay their fair share. Most politicians are rich. Most times the taxes go up, the very rich, the connected, and politicians only seem to get richer and the rest of us get poorer. So if the progressive tax rate is really meant to make things fair, why does it continually seem that the distance between the rich and the poor gets bigger and bigger? My thought is that those who want the income tax revised or dropped are on to something. The current taxes are sold to us as leveling the playing field, but they only seem to be creating a wider class division than before. For example, when my income increased, I went from qualifying for food stamps to having to pay for all that food out of our own budget. Now I took that pay raise believing that in the end it would be worth it, but we didn’t make more money by making more money. We lost money. Government would “give” us $500 a month to stay poor. Now we have to find the money for food and feed our family with less than half that, and our rent keeps going up so we might have to get more creative with our budget–as in more sacrifices to do without. So when I look at our “progressive” tax code, I am well aware that the wealthy pay very little on their income compared to those of struggling up from the bottom. I am also well aware that this system is actually designed to keep the poor down among the poor and separate us from the rich. Imagine how hard you would work if you knew your tax rate was a constant (um, 25% for example). On a flat rate, sure your taxes would go up as you made more money, but you wouldn’t be worried about jumping tax brackets. For example, my in-laws got a promotion and increase not too long ago. By the time the new tax bracket they were in took out their taxes they made no more than they had before. It seems to me that our tax code is designed to prevent (squelch) incentive to work hard and succeed financially. So I think that the rich should be allowed to keep their money. Because if we let people actually receive the reward for their work, many more of us would succeed.

    We often go into money matters thinking very two dimensionally. Sure there is supply and demand. This is basic. This is a part of inflation and deflation. But we forget that it possible to take an existing resource (time and money) and get it to do more for less. So while the resources may not increase, our ability to use them do. The simplest illustration I have heard of this is a small fishing village. At first they must all go out in their boats and catch fish. Then someone comes along and “invents” the net. Now a couple people can go out in boats and catch fish for the whole village. This in turns allows for some people to learn new skills such as farming, math, science, and the list goes on. The village has now become wealthier than before. Where before it took all its men and available hard labor to feed its people, it can now do more with the same population and space…. Wealth is not finite. Besides when we insist that money be taken from the rich and given to those of us who are poor, are we not envying the rich (or coveting their stuff). I think there was one of the Ten Commandments that said this was bad stuff….

    • Shibamom

      Nicely said Dan.

  • JC #2

    Marcy (and others),

    Are you aware that these so-called “rich” people are job creators? You are not a job creator, in all likelihood, at 50K/year. I have been, but now am not.

    What I do know is, if someone’s making 250-300K/year and running a business, they might employ oh, I don’t know, 30 people (I know of a situation like that, where I worked back in 2005-6). They fell upon hard times. They laid off people (including me). They’ve struggled since, trying to keep the business going, with now less than 20 people.

    What happens when Obama/Pelosi/Reid tax increases go into effect? That means that my former employer, making perhaps 300K/year, will now have a tax burden that means he has a choice: Keep the same headcount, and lose 50K/year, or fire one person, maybe two…and keep his present salary. What do you think he’s going to do?

    And, why is it, again, that he needs to pay more money into the bottomless pit that is the government tax system? For the “bling bling” welfare recipients that go to the hospital (on BOTH your and his taxes), and buy cigarettes that cost even more tax dollars to you and him, that buy hair extensions and manicures and $300 hair treatments, and nice cars, and jewelry…and work not at all?

    Please don’t buy into this rhetoric about “spreading the wealth” being good for the country. Japan lost a decade trying stimulus after stimulus, taking money from the “rich” and spreading it among the “poor”. When rich people are taxed and taxed and taxed (10% of taxpayers in the U.S. pay 90% of the taxes, or something like that!!!)…they’re going somewhere else. It’s simple math, simple human nature. Why would we drive out the people who are the engine of our economy’s growth? Unless we wanted to destroy our country…it would make no sense. Because…it does not take a genius of history to see that whenever “spread the wealth” policies have been implemented…the country has gone DOWN in GDP, has declined generally, rather than prospered.

    Why do you think that Daimler-Chrysler (when it was called that) chose to headquarter in Germany, rather than Detroit? A simple matter of accountants choosing the best environment for the company tax structure was the reason. Detroit, then Michigan, then the U.S., tax system is an overbearing, corporate-unfriendly, tax structure. We need to STOP the wealth envy, let so-called “rich” people do what they do best, namely, create wealth (and employ people to help them do that) and stop backbiting and envying those who have more than us, or believing the democrat creed of “rich people are bad” (even though Pelosi, Obama, Gore, and countless others are rich beyond belief). They want to tell YOU and ME how we should spend our money and want more and more. That’s called “power hungry”. Make them stop, by voting them out, and joining us in re-creating the conservative republic that our forefathers created, a country with God in its founding documents, and with people who believed (and prayed) that God would bless us. We have strayed so far…and we need to get back, or we are facing destruction from within, let alone without. This is our last chance…don’t blow it by voting for another power grab and money steal, by voting in these congresspeople and senators that would just do more of the same.

    • spike

      All of this smacks of communism.

    • Shibamom

      I know what you mean about “wealth envy”. I’ve experienced it several times in the last 25 years. My ex & I were stationed overseas. We returned to NJ in 1984 and two years later, my ex retired from the military and a year after that I got out of the military. Our combined income plummetted while we struggled to get jobs and we often joked while paying bills that we needed to ensure we made our van payment cause we might have to live in it!! Well, after about 10 years of doing without, driving old used cars that broke down alongside the road, and many bill collectors calling, our luck changed. We both secured fairly decent paying jobs that had a chance for growth and slowly but surely we began to have some extra money to be able to fix up our shabbily built house. Since we still didn’t have enough ready cash or credit yet, we decided to fix up our back yard. We put in a pool, built a nice half moon deck around it, fixed up our existing deck, and put in a huge patio under the deck to cover a sand pit. We did all the work ourselves. Once it was all done, we used to invite the kids and parents of our son’s sports teams to the house to have swim parties for the kids. Well, one family showed up, took a look at the back yard and exclaimed “Boy, it must be nice to have money!” I was confused as to why someone would say that because all I could think of was we worked hard to build something for ourselves plus all the years of doing without, we deserved this. Now I am divorced and my son is on his own and married. I live in a small town home community and I make a fairly decent living. I decided to buy a second car in the event my primary car broke down, I would still have a means to get to work. Recently, I traded one in and was fortunate enought to purchase a new vehicle. One of my neighbors saw me and shook his head saying “Gee, I need to work where you work because every time I turn around you have a different car”. I just looked at him and said “It’s called money management” and turned around and walked away. Envy is everywhere. It doesn’t matter to people that I did without for many years and that it took more than 20 years to build up my income. It didn’t just happen overnight. For some reason people think it’s unfair that someone else should have more than them and if you are fairly well off, they think you are a criminal and got your money through illegal means. People HATE others that make more. I don’t get it! We all have choices in life. You can chose to keep fighting to make a good living or you can choose to sit on your a$$ and expect others to take care of you. I choose to be self sufficient, self reliant, and have a network of good friends that I can count on should I need help. Plus, I’ll be damned if I’m going to expect the Gov’t to take care of me. My goodness, they can’t do anything right!

  • Ed

    This is all a bunch of poo. “Progressive politics”, rather regressive, trying to widen the class distingtions in the US so that we can all go back to fuedal times and be slaves to our government. Dump them all and start over if needs be.

  • Rob Michaels

    Folks making $250,000 or more are Americans just like us.
    Fair taxes I feel is the flat tax. obummer and the rest
    are some of the biggest criminals this country has seen.

  • Jason Johnson

    Although I make only $33,000 a year, I feel it is un-American to confiscate ANYONE’s income, whether they make $25,000 or $2.5 million. I have come to believe that many people are poor because of some character defect like an addiction to booze or squandering a whole paycheck on lottery tickets. I am willing to consider any evidence that the 16th Anmendment was improperly ratified.

    • Fed Up Gal in NM


      Great post! Take a look at the Fair Tax plan, and let me know what you think. I think it’s about the most reasonable and fairest tax plan there is.


      P.S….sorry everyone for the repeat link posting…and no I’m not a member or financial supporter (to date), but that’s going to change.

  • s c

    Trying to reason with the progressive mentality on taxes is like trying to stay ‘shower fresh’ while you’re standing neck-deep in a large pig sty. Where you live (and how ‘high’ you live) has a lot to do with whether or not you could be considered “rich.” If you live in New York or California, rent alone is a wealth robber, compared to living in Mississippi.
    Unless or until fair taxation becomes important to the bastards we elect, people in Washington (mainly members of Congress and White House occupants) should pay higher taxes than the rest of the nation.
    What is so hard to understand? It is beyond stupid
    to look the other way when bastards go to Washington and take up space and get rich while they’re there. Getting rich while you’re in office should be a FELONY.
    Since Herr Obummer is so concerned with acting like Lenin’s #1 disciple and redistributing America’s wealth, then he should be socked with taxes that are so high that he’s properly ‘motivated’ to get out of Washington and OUT of politics.
    People, use your heads. If you let the criminal class [politicians] control your lives without trying to control THEM, you have NOTHING to bitch about when it comes to taxes.

    • Fed Up Gal in NM

      S C,

      Agreed……..and another great post; thank you!

  • bill b

    I own a small business.When my costs go up whether it be materials,labour or taxes,I pass that cost along to my customers.If you tax a company that makes toothpaste then the price of toothpaste goes up.It happens this way EVERYTIME.If you want to balance the books,cut spending and cut taxes across the board.

  • Claire

    Here is Ilinois Bill Brady (R) is running for office. Supposedly he is a millionaire and has not paid any taxes for 2 years. I guess he knows all the loopholes or the right people. All I know is that he will not get my vote.

  • http://www.facebook.com Magee,Robert H.O.

    First the tax code is discriminatory. Second it is used to subjugate ages immigrants to United States and it unfair to middle class because they have no say in Congress. The rich are unequally rich and they think they should also get tax break instead of the middle class.

    Middle class worker needs help period they cannot afford housing and living expenses in America. The her reason why the rich are becoming poor. The goods and services the wealthy companies provide must be affordable to the common person or the wealth who have spent research and development will not make sales needed to return cost and profit.

    The class war therefore wedged by Democrats is in my view in order to get a break to middle class fast. This will in my view open or release spending by middle class on new gadgets and appliances. The economy will be stronger faster than spending on more research and development dollars. It is the only common sense Republicans cannot get when they feel helping middle class is naive approach by Democrats.

    Both parties need to come together and tackle the problem head on. You need improved understanding between the two parties that the approach from middle class perspective is an assistance. Assistance aimed relief that helps jumpstart the economy.

    The Middleton class approach is more distributive and far reaching relief than aiming the relief to mainly I percent of the population wealthiest individuals in society.

    You cannot be blinded by your philosophical look or ideology in governance. You need some Common Sense and you need a good spread of income to run the economy in all sectors and a middle class tax has a better impact on the economy.

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    What a wonderful guide you wrote there! It’s wonderful to find out how individuals share data as you do, asking nothing at all in exchange. I own a website too, which has a lot of data about generating dollars on the web, is you’re interested, you are able to check my web site Moneymaker News

  • s c

    As long as politicians are allowed to decide what’s ‘fair’ and what isn’t, there is no way to resolve this issue. First, politicians do what they do to get elected and re-elected. That means that are NOT interested in solutions. WHAT do you not understand about that, people?
    Second, government is deathly afraid that new ‘solutions’ will interfere with the constant flow of easy money to Washington. Money means power, and politicians are drawn to money and power like maggots are drawn to decaying flesh.
    Politicians are the culprits, people. They have a vested interest in keeping us dumbed-down and distracted. Unless we DENY politicians the “divine right” to dominate us, we are their slaves, and they get to determine what’s “fair” and what isn’t.
    Politicians are our #1 enemy, people. Get that through your heads. STOP making it easy for them.

  • http://godhistoryandyou.blogspot.com Christina

    Sorry to say, before I learned the views of our Founders on equal taxation for all, I thought taxing the ‘rich’ and not the lower income class (me!) made sense. It seemed ‘fair’.

    But I’ve learned that either the Founding Fathers’ views were right, or they were not.
    Well, our country sprang forth from, and was built on, their principles. Aside from the Madison quote presented here, I think I’ve see a similar belief expressed by Benjamin Frankin. But even if I’m wrong, Mr. Madison, your instruction is enough for me – what I believe is that much American government, from the top down, needs to be re-educated in the Founding principles. Which means, among other things, if we’re going to be taxed, it should be equally.


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