Italian politics

The last thing Italy needs

Silvio Berlusconi will probably run for prime minister for a seventh time

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Readers' comments



Berlusconi! The last thing I would like to read! We have heard enough of him and his BUNGA BUNGA parties!!! I wish Monti would be given more time but this is Italy! there is always an italian way of doing things! and to stay optimistic even when nothing works!!


Silvio Berlusconi will not probably elect prime minister, is a old, boiled, embarrassing libertine without any idea of ​​what to do for the italian state. But if once, the economist wrote articles that were thinking, now writes what everyone thinks. Useless.

Carlo Ruggeri

longman333 in reply to 2skunk

Tell us who will probably be elected as PM. Do you think that among the crooked, corrupts, fraudolent Italian politician, there is one who could play the role honourably? Finding such a man would be like looking for a needle in a haystack!

2skunk in reply to longman333

I wrote that probably will NOT be elected, maybe you will not even nominated. In Italy we have thousands of honest and capable men for the job, struggling to emerge because of the many corrupt and dishonest (first Mr. B.) in parliament. Moreover, each country has its own haystack ...

longman333 in reply to 2skunk

I have never heard of honest Italians. They must live very well hidden because those we always meet, specially those involved in the pinkish politics or leftist trade unions, are more or less swindlers, crooks, scoundrels and wrongdoers.

2skunk in reply to longman333

I understand, you're a fool, and I, with my basic English, I will not waste any more time to respond to a nonsensical words. We are not on the comments page of "Il Giornale" or "Libero".

Please don't feed the troll...

longman333 in reply to 2skunk

Who told you that Berlusconi was without any idea? Everything you can say about but not that he hasn't ideas. He is one of the richest person in the world and therefore cannot be without any idea.Poor people who come to power can be dangerous because they usually use their position to snatch and grow rich. He was ingenuous, grandiose,womanizer, skirt chaser and had many ideas. Dangerous can be for Italy only true politicians and he wasn't any. He was a mogul, tycoon,magnate, entrepreneur,supremo,multimillionaire, bigwig but no a bad man.

flyingdutch100 in reply to longman333

"I never heard of honest Italians"...well, this is so true.
You can easily add entrepreneurs, bankers, whomever you wish.
They do not perceive themselves as dishonest. Trying to rip off somebody else is "furbizia", which is a nromal thing to do, whoever you are, whereever you are.

Looks into the abyss

I can't help myself thinking - if the Brussels bureaucrats and the City of London are, rare as it is, united in their belief that Berlusconi is bad for the world, then he might be on to something...

Johannes 64

Oh I hope he succeeds! He offers such good laughs to us non-Italians and brings some color to dreary EU politics.
He should actually form a new Southern Union with Spain and Greece, have their own currency, The Silvio, and they could keep their debts and cosy government jobs and excellent economic policies to themselves, would save us northerners some cents too! I wish the very best to Mr Berlusconi!

Dear Southener, if I were you, I would hope you try admitting that our destinies aren't that linked at all.
Maybe in Italy you marry for life, otherwise you get excommunicated. In the North if one partner spends too much of other partner's money, till they both go bust, we try to impose change. If the spending partner does not change, does not adapt, you can always DIVORCE.
Which it may happen soon as Germany with other mini states like The netherlands simply cannot pay for your debts undefinitely.
Many of which (debts) originate fromnthe glorious Berlusconi years.

flyingdutch100 in reply to Johannes 64

Instead of financing pretty eveything in Italy, can't we just finance berlusconi's campaign?
He is indeed the recipe to Italy's complete bankcrupcy, which would end this transfer union and allow the civilised world move on.
"Menomale che Silvio c'e!"

I don't think a possible Italy default would be so light for the Netherlands or even Germany. On the contrary: I guess Europe would have at least other 5 years of recession. Bear in mind that Italian economy is three times Netherlands's one. So we hope Silvio soon disappears.

You are perfectly right, (possible) default (-s) of large economies already affect North West Europe heavily. This is above any doubt.
What this line of thinking coming from Spain and Italy fails to understand is the following.
We (Northern Europe - Germany, NL and alike) do not have a choice between rosy, healthy life and economic downturn. We are experiencing downturn already. The real choice is: do we go on transferring money and involving in a downward spiral nobody knows when it is going to end (and therefore nobody knows how much is going to cost)?.
Or do we take the huge losses now, suffer not for 5 years as you say, but maybe for 10, but STOP the money bleeding?
Transferring money to the South in the hope that they will use this time to reform and contain debt proves a very expensive gamble already. If one has fun gambling, one can do it. But even a gambler reaches a point when it should take his loss and stop instead of making higher and higher debt for the illusion that at a certain point he might win so much as to compensate the increasing losses.
There comes a point when one needs to accept the loss, stop gambling, and move on.
Today Moody's announced possible downgrades on almost all AAA economies and they are right.
NO Dutch government "succeeded" in two years to bring the economy down. Europe did.
This is way bigger than Silvio. With or without him Italy will have a huge debt and with or without him Italian economy was poorely managed. For the past 50 years.
I am not a fan of Berlusconi, nor would I vote for him but I think his influence upon the real economy and economic policy is heavily over-estimated. To me he is kind of a clown. And that's about how far his influence would go.

MilovanDjilas in reply to XeR5d3ybDc

This clown worked for a few years in Milan - apparently saw all the worst side of life in the Lombard capital (well that's a surprise, eh?) and decided he understands both South, Centre and North in Italy - all of which are corrupt, corrupt, corrupt - profligate, etc. etc.
He is also a racist - as you can imagine. He never wanted to be sent to Italy (by a bank, have I understood correctly?) but was forced to come. To listen to him, you would think they sent him to Afghanistan or Nigeria instead of northern Italy.
I sincerely hope his next assignment will be in Nigeria.

A nice people the Dutch, with their little Medieval monarchy. Sort of makes you sympathise with the Walloons, doesn't it?

Giannicola Bonora

I think the worst thing which Mr Berlusconi did to Italians was to support optimism. If Italians had to cut their spending by say 40% in real terms in 10 years that was for reasons of global tendencies on wealth redistribution; what Mr Berlusconi or Mr Monti coluld do about that was the same pretty nothing.
"Thanks" to Mr Berlusconi optimism, now we are forced to do the same repositionment in 3 years which is much more traumatic.

Giant Tortoise iawmaij

If Berlusconi ever returns to power, a lot of blame has lay on the voters themselves. The sad thing is that people who will even bother to look at this article is among the 1% - not the 1% rich, but the 1% smart enough to at least think for themselves, smart enough to consider there may be an elephant in the room, smart enough to understand most (if not all) politicians are BS.

I bet Berlusconi, in one of his sex or drinking orgy, laugh how stupid and ugly is Merkel is. "In the end, I win, hahaha" he laughs.

Connect The Dots

The Roman Empire fell for a reason...disastrous leadership and blind followers was a major factor.
And it appears to have persisted like a family curse that recurs.

Machiavelli said if you wound the King, you must kill him.

Those who fail to learn history are condemned to repeat it.

longman333 in reply to Connect The Dots

Since this magazine is very ill-informed about the situation in Italy and specially about the PD and its secretary Bersani, let me put you in the picture. First you have to know that the PD(Partito Democratico) is the spiritual heir of the old Commies.. In order to become more presentable the old PCI (Partito Comunista Italiano) changed, after the fall of the Berin wall, its name into PDS then DS and finally into PD. They had the brain-child to make such transformations in order to appear....fitter to be seen! Since the leopard cannot change its spots this Mickey Mouse operation didn't work and they are from the bottom of their heart Commies and act accordingly. Among them there are some false Catholics used as straw men, baits to soothe the Vatican and mislead the believers. These guys were once hand in glove with the KKremlin. with KGB, with Stalin, Breznev, Pol Pot, Mao, Castro and formed a fifth column of the Red Army in Italy just in case. Even the present Head of State is a Communist who 1956 praised Hungary's invasion by the Soviet Union. This magazine, is supporting these guys in order to take the power in Italy after Monti's retreat next year. Disgusting!

longman333 in reply to Connect The Dots

The game this magazine is playing here is crossing the frontier of the ridicule, of the absurdity. The Italian trashy newspapers LA REPUBBLICA, CORRIERE DELLA SERVA, L'UNITA' write falsehoods about Berlusconi in plenty. THE ECONOMIST retails this "news" and the above mentioned papers, in their turn, write what foreign trashy press (THE ECONOMIST) is ranting about Berlusconi as if that were the latest news. It's sheer madness!

longman333 in reply to Connect The Dots

It's amazing how little the author of the article about Berlusconi knows. He seldom comes where he is not more ignorant than anyone else. His style is detestable; but that is not the worst thing about him. He knows nothing about Italy and Berlusconi.

Alphysicist in reply to longman333

Although they do not call themselves communist anymore, one can always tell who they are: they tend to label anyone who does not think like them as "fascist". They also tend to be rather powerful in certain institutions (academia, and what has to do with culture/intellectual life).

On the other hand, the situation in other European countries is quite similar. They may not be called communists, but something else (Frankfurt School, etc.), but share very similar attitudes.

Alphysicist in reply to longman333

Actually this is interesting what you write here. It ıs always claimed in the mainstream Western media that Berlusconi dominates the media in Italy. When one examines this statement closely it is at best a half-truth: Berlusconi owns two TV stations (as far as I know their broadcasts are not terribly political), but then that's very far from dominating the Italian media as a whole. As you write Repubblica/Corriere/L'Unita are definitely not under Berlusconi. I think, apart from this, one should also mention universities in Italy as a whole, which serve more or less a training camps for pro-left voters.

Richard Bates in reply to Alphysicist

"Berlusconi owns two TV stations..." Really? Is that all? Well, well, well, and there was me thinking...
It's a measure of how far gone Italy is that, even if this were anything other than a grotesque distortion of the truth, it would still be enough to disqualify him for office in any self-rerspecting democracy.
"Universities as training-camps for pro-left voters..." Oh, deary me, and to think of all those university professors who have borne Mr Berlusconi's standard: Colletti, Pera, Brunetta. .. And then there's even our own Ferretti too...

longman333 in reply to Alphysicist

The italian leftists fling accusationat Berlusconi that he owns the media as if owing the media would dominate the nation, its thought and its liberty. Nothing could be wronger. Aside from the fact that he owns two TV stations it's a matter of fact that his TV stations do not make politics and sometimes broadcast programs which are against him. He doesn't use his TV stations to attack his adversaries and that is perhaps a mistake. The culture in Italy is for the most part statist and this explains the assonance the tight bonds between right and left extremists. After the war a great number of the most fanatic fascists went over to the communist party without difficulties. They wanted to exchange the black dictatorship for a left one since both systems resempbled each other amazingly.

longman333 in reply to Alphysicist

You are right.Only a ridiculous left-winger can distort what I have written. I wrote that the huge public debt in Italy was caused by left-centre governments (Christian Democrats and Socialists). As far as I know the Socialists are Leftists aren't they? It's also a matter of fact that the strong inflationary trend was given by the trade unions and among the trade unions the red CGIL was the strongest. The CGIL was the Communist trade union. It's funny how the leftists,all over the world, as soon as they collide with people who don't share their red point of view, label them as extreme Rightist or 'fascist'. They always show themselves in their true colours (red).

Antonio Sinigaglia in reply to longman333

Are "Il Foglio", "Il Giornale" and "Libero" the only newspapers speaking the truth, in your mind? Shall somebody read just that, nothing else even among non-Italian newsmedia?

Is that the only truthful source you rely on and everybody else should as well?

Is that the Gospel, even?

Banana Republic in reply to longman333

it is OK that I am pond-scum, at least I do not enjoy myself with under-age girls like Berlusconi. I have no Mafia dealing like Berlusconi, I have not corrupted a judge or Mills, I pay for my own ladies not like Minetti that is paid by tax payers based on her sexual favours. I respect women, not something to be exploited or insulted the way Berlusconi has and his newspapers and fellow politician have insulted Frau Merkel. I will proudly wear on my tee-shirt 'I am a pond-scum' but Berlusconi is a criminal.

You are always talking through your hat as usual. You are ridiculous and
pathetic.I want to point out that your slander,
calumny, defamation, lies, gossip, scandal mongering, denigration, smear practically all your left-wing comments about Berlusconi have been proved to be only lies only insults and nothing else. The scums writing here against
Berlusconi have shown that they are not possessed of the backbones of the angleworms.


Mr. B. is playing his cards, possibly to fed up Merkel and her followers around Europe. He knows he won't succeed this time around, but if politics still means something, and political tactics still matter, then this is a very well played hand at the EU poker table.
In Italy we do not need Mr. B, so much so we don't need a Germanized Europe.
My guess is Mr. B. won't run for another mandate, but he may reap the benefit of having scared Germans and the likes.
If so, please Mr. B go ahead, I will vote for you and do the campaign ;)
(Btw, I am 100% for Germany, and the Nordic Countries, having spent some nine wonderful years in Brussels, but it is time for action, not for bickering).

Banana Republic in reply to GabrieleA

GabrieleA, Mr B has no cards to play. Germans do care about Italy, they wish that Italy leaves the Euro. What Germans and Frau Merkel should be saying to Italy 'get your mess sorted-out in 3 months or get out of the Euro'. Monti has failed completly, he has not addressed corruption or tax evasion, we have peiple like Minetti paid by tax payers, parliament full of crooked politicians.

longman333 in reply to Banana Republic

Minetti is ate least a beautiful woman who has not stolene. The tragedy is we have the communist Bersani, the gay Vendola the Mafia gangsters Orlando, Di Pietro, the crooks Casini, Fini, Franceschini. All people to be put with their backs to a wall and .....

Josh_US Lux

A serious question to all Italian posters round here:

Why doesn't Monti start his own party - and what would be his electoral chances if he did?

To me, he seems to be the ideal figurehead for a reanimated "DC", and there should be enough centrists/ moderate conservatives sitting on the sidelines right now to make such a party a force to reckon with.

Puddu in reply to Josh_US Lux

Thanx for the question!
First of all you must understand thata thing like that is not possible in italy.
Why? unluckily we have let politics to become not a service to people but a lifetime profitable work.
Monti has never played (luckily for us) this kind of game, and it is very probable that as soon as he will not be needed he will be simply discarded by our incredible, eternal political class.
Add to this the fact that parties are already starting to give him th fault of just about everything showing him as the "tax maker".

I would also understand if he would be reluctant to stay.

Only hope? that markets keep a correct pressure on us (not too much please) just to force us to keep him long enough to see new faces in our political theatre.

Josh_US Lux in reply to Puddu

I agree 100% with the last paragraph.

As for Monti starting his own party, maybe I'm too accustomed to the US political system where within the shell of two big parties, new political formations are created every four years during presidential elections, and where the system is in fact quite open to new entrants.

Monti reminds me of the better parts of the old DC elite (experience, balance, moderation), which somehow got pushed aside during the past two decades, it seems. As an outsider I wouldn't mind if they were represented more prominently on the national Italian stage again.

Paolo Pasquale in reply to Josh_US Lux

Why do you say Monti is NOT going to start his own party ?
Italian politics require ages to decide new laws, but a party in certain conditions can be started overnight: Monti is starting to understand that, the closer April 2013 (natural end of legislature) comes, the more fragile his coalition becomes.
He is also understanding that the markets are frightened by the "return to politics" that will come AFTER Monti.
Therefore, he is starting to think to new elections in October-November, and I bet in this case he would have a very active role...

zorzon in reply to Paolo Pasquale

You cannot start a party unless you get a minimum of 4% of the vote, this percentage is trying to be changed by PD and PDL to 8% , this will see many parties fold, like Fini's, di Pietro's etc etc
Another change trying to make Italy less democratic

MilovanDjilas in reply to Puddu

Puddu, please do not give extra encouragemente to Josh, who is in general an enemy of Italy.

Also, markets to keep a "correct pressure" on us? Are you out of your mind? Does it seem to you that 600 basis points difference is justified or "correct pressure". How about if you pay all those taxes and spare us?

Were your ancestors self-flagellants during the Medieval Ages?

MilovanDjilas in reply to Josh_US Lux

To answer your question:

Monti could start his own party - several other "institutional" figures have done this in the past - one thinks of Lamberto Dini, ex-number two person at the Bank of Italy...

But he has stated he has no intention of running for office when his term expires, either at the natural end of the parliament (April 2013) or if the Left or Right abandons him earlier.

I believe the reason is because the President of the Republic in Italy is much more important than most people think... And Giorgio Napolitano must step down by October 2013. Mario Monti is at this point the natural candidate to succeed him, having already headed a government with support from Left and Right - generally a key quality needed to become President here (our presidents are elected by the Parliament). The electors also include the seven Senators-for-Life (currently six, as Pininfarina has just died, giving Napolitano the possibility of nominating another Senator) of which one is Monti himself.
This nomination by Napolitano guarantees that Monti will have a vote and a voice in Parliament even after his resignation - and that nobody can send him home (through elections) - so he is the obvious front-runner to become President.

Why should he choose sides and therefore taint himself with partisan politics, when within little more than a year he will be practically assured of being "king" and the power behind the throne at the same time.

The President's term lasts for seven years - his photo will be in every barracks, every police headquarters and prefecture, every government building and tax office. All laws will require his signature, and by law command of the military is shared between the Chairman of the Joint Chief of Staffs, the Prime Minister and the President of the Republic (the old Roman triumvirate formula) of which the latter is the true key figure.

(Unfortunately) he will also have as President a budget and number of staff superior to Buckingham Palace(!!)
In that context he would be crazy to run for office now. And as President, he will be able to heavily influence behind the scenes the workings of any future government.

This future is already decided, I think. And I think Napolitano knew it when he nominated Monti. The question is, who will be his successor as Prime Minister (in our country called President of the Council of Ministers). I think Bersani, the man who authored the greatest number of liberalisations hitherto before Monti. But that remains to be seen - and determined by elections.

Josh_US Lux in reply to MilovanDjilas

"Puddu, please do not give extra encouragemente to Josh, who is in general an enemy of Italy."


Cut the cr*p, Milovan/Joe.

I'm nobody's enemy (and certainly not Italy's). I'm critical of Italy's political system, but that's about it - the rest is mudslinging with you, which, yes, I enjoy.

The one who declares other countries "enemies" (at present: "the Germans", but there have been other preferred targets of your rage), is you, not me - and you make a point of including the people, and not just the government, something I'd never do.

Btw, it's almost comical when you first insult me only to then adress a lengthy serious post to me. Make up you mind, for crissake! LOL

MilovanDjilas in reply to Josh_US Lux

"Cut the cr*p" represents the height of your psychological projection.

No, you are not merely "critical of Italy's political system", you insist that we are lying about our deficit numbers and have long sustained on these boards that we are merely Greece writ large.
You have also insisted over the last two years that Italy is an "uncompetitive" country that counts nothing in international markets and politics. You discount the efforts of our soldiers in places like Lebanon and Afghanistan and have made abundantly clear you think 500 basis points above German bund rates is an appropriate reflection of the risk factor of the Italian economy.
In other words, you are one of the best friends of the speculators (and I have wondered if you are paid to express these opinions and slander).

My "lengthy, serious" post was only officially addressed to you; in fact it was meant for other ears as well and represented an answer to a legitimate query - one of the few you have expressed regarding Italy.

Finally, I am convinced that for 12 years and more, we Italians have regarded the Germans as friends and allies - in effect, a larger version of the West Germany we grew up with. The stunning incompetence and prejudice of the current German political class - particularly centred around the Christian Democratic Right - instead demonstrates that United Germany has little or nothing to do with West Germany. You Germans are enemies of Italy, not allies. And the quicker our people wake up to this fact the quicker we will pick ourselves up and beginning doing what is needed: building a Europe and a Euro WITHOUT GERMANY.
Your insane fears of inflation, incompetent politicians and corrupt businesspeople (for example bribing Greek politicians to purchase unnecessary and expensive weapons systems - and then insisting to Papandreou and others continue with the purchases if they expected German support for assistance to Greece) have transformed a limited crisis in the Balkans into a continent-wide systemic crisis of the Euro.
You Germans join with the speculators in attacking Italy because this lie and bluff absolves Germany of its responsibility for having created the Euro-mess. In the words of Joschka Fischer: "Europe is burning", he writes, "and Angela Merkel is trying to extinguish the blaze with kerosene."

Josh_US Lux in reply to MilovanDjilas

Sorry, but I don't have the time nor nerve to respond to all of your non-stop absurdities, so I'll content myself to these, by way of example:


- NO. I never said so.

"and have long sustained on these boards that we are merely Greece writ large."

- NO. I never said so.

And so on.


- Oh, how funny. More cheap shots. Sorry if I don't bother to answer. What do they pay in this (your?) "business"? 1 cent per word, 2 or 3 maybe? Sorry, that's not quite my pay grade.

Stupid. If you're really "almost 50", as you say, start acting like it. And that's if for the day. Have fun.

flyingdutch100 in reply to Josh_US Lux

Italy has already so many political parties that no one really understands what their differences are, besides petty squabbles and competition for goodies.
The whole italian political spectrum is deeply corrupt and compromised from the left (indeed akin to communists) to the right (does the name Mussolini ring abell? I mean, current day politician still eligible). DC got a blow during "Mani pulite' when the extended corruption of the Italian political life has been shown. They are still full of corrupted (by which I mean mostly convicted) politicians. Italian christian democracy has nothing whatsoever to do with christian democrats like those in germany or Holland.
Italy has no really liberal party and probably this is its main problem. I mean a party with liberal convictions, whatever its name might be.
No party in Italy addresses the country's real long term economic problems:
- no one speaks about privatising costly public serviceslike health care and pension
- no one wants the labour market to be flexible
- no one encourages real entrpreneurship (I do not mean the so called free lancers the country is full of as a manner of legally evading taxes)
- no one enforces fiscal discipline (i mean, really paying your taxes)
These ideas, about productivity, accountability and sound economic policy are not popular with the voters.

longman333 in reply to ORNE1960

Not only the old DC but also the nes one too, together with the old and the new Socialists, the old and the new Communists, the old and the new Trade Unions. All these scoundrels have contributed to the huge Italian public debt greatly.

Josh_US Lux in reply to MilovanDjilas

Milovan Djilas (in reply to Puddu):

"[...] markets to keep a "correct pressure" on us? Are you out of your mind? Does it seem to you that 600 basis points difference is justified or 'correct pressure'."


Puddu is right on target in describing Monit's strategy - at least if the New York Times, reporting on the imminent bankruptcy of the Italian region of Sicily, is to be believed:

"[...] the flare-up over Sicily highlights the challenges that Mr. Monti is facing in trying to use pressure from European leaders and international markets to push Italy’s politicians to cut costs. Those expenses have ballooned after decades of a patronage system in which the state has been the primary means of employment in Sicily."

BTW - 26,000 fire fighters in Sicily (vs 1,500 in vast British Columbia); you must be kidding me!

Explain again how that's all Germany's fault, please. Did Angela Merkel conduct the job interviews? LOL

MilovanDjilas in reply to Josh_US Lux

I am sorry you are only interested in reading up about Italy to find negative, superficial news - and do not dig deeper into the stories to get the real picture.
The New York Times article was not bad, but did not explain much of anything.
If you were to investigate the entire picture, the Sicilian case is rather emblematic of why Italy is NOT Greece. Or that Italian Regions are not Spanish Regions.
Start with the fact that Sicily is one of the worst centres of corruption, nepotism, poverty and natural disasters in Europe. Then start to ask yourself: Why has this Region not collapsed financially yet - not even after four years of Financial Depression?
1) Unlike Greece, there is no issue of incompetence here. Sicily has a Land Registry and nobody ever accused Sicilian bankers of incompetence. As a rule in Sicily, everybody knows exactly what the numbers are, where the problems are and where the mafiosi are. It is not a question of incompetence, but rather "Who commands here" (answer: the Mafia, not the State).
2) Sicily is not Greece, financially speaking: the island's official gdp is €85 billion, their regional debt is €27 billion - their regional NET debt is said to be €5 billion.
The NY Times article incorrectly stated that debt as 5 billion - they meant NET debt.
That figure is probably worse, and everyone knows it. The Region is counting as Receivables a whole slew of fines, etc. that they probably will never receive. So, net debt might easily be double that number.
Should the central state assume that net debt (which nobody in the North or Rome has any intention of doing) our total federal debt would increase by 0.7%. THIS IS SIMPLY NOT A BIG DEAL.
3). They are not 26,000 FIRE-FIGHTERS - they are Forest Rangers. These people (yes, too many) also guard against poachers and plant trees to battle deforestation. It is a classic job creation programme in the South. Once again, too many but not ridiculous.
The current Regional President, who is resigning, recently told Italian newspapers "I inherited office with too many regional employees. What was I supposed to do, shoot them?" This remark also made reference to the fact that with close to 18% unemployment, fired state employees would find no other jobs, and possibly commit suicide.
4) Despite the excess employees, the Region's budget deficit this year is around 300 million (million, not billion) in a 26-billion total budget. That is 0.4% of the regional gdp and a negligible quantity at the national level. Keep in mind that Sicily is probably the worst/economically weakest of our 20 regions.
5) In an effort to keep the federal deficit down, Rome has been arguing with the Regions over how much money they are owed. (Tax monies are first collected by the national government and then distributed to the Regions). All the Regions are arguing violently with Rome at the moment. Sicily is owed 1 billion euros from Rome - so the money Mario Monti is sending down - 400 million, which should be enough to stave off further problems this year - are monies rightfully owed to Sicily and are not assistance or a bailout of any kind.
Finally, "the State has been the primary means of employment in Sicily". I do not know that that is true. There are many private companies on the island and none are LARGE employers, but total State employment is not ridiculously high, considering that this is the poorest region in Italy.
In any case, I repeat, the Sicilian budget deficit is not at all out of control.
They are not threatened with default, they are threatened with insolvency - because nobody, not even the federal government till now, has been paying on their debts to the Regional government.
BTW, latest news in Italy is that there are about 10 other large-ish cities that are facing the same problem. In Italy's highly-centralised, French-style tax and administration system, almost none of the local governments have control of enough resources to explode into a national crisis (only exceptions: Lombardy, City of Milan and Rome - all of which seem to have their accounts in order). So even the ten other cities with seriously stressed finances are a question of amounts in the hundreds of millions - not more.
This is quite different from the Spanish case: where Spain overshot its budget deficit by 2.9% last year due to "unexpectedly" large deficits in the Regions.
Personally, given that the 5 million people of Sicily face long-term problems that were always worse than Greece, I think it is a testament to the soundness of Italian financial management that the island's financial problems are so limited in their numbers.

Terence Hale

The last thing Italy needs . “Beginning of the end or the end of the beginning” The Lega Nord holds a key role in Italian politics. Its strong man Umberto Bossi (deep throat), who resigned in April due to having “the finger in the till” was replaced by former minister Roberto Maroni elected chairman of the separatist party Lega Nord in Italy. As a band player he will support Mr. Berlusconi and the “dei Machiavelli” politics of northern Italy will reign or rain.


Good. Berlusconi is a good leader, and if he progresses with free-market policies it will be to Italy's benefit.

A politician with a sense of humor is apparently discrediting to politicians.

It is one quality politicians need more than others, because they manage incompetent organizations.

Mario Ferretti

I'm glad to see that you are now apparently giving up your previous nonsense about tap-water not being produced or the need to favour mass unemployment in order to support labour-market liberalisation (not to speak of the "common goods" advocacy). Pity however that you are now substituting even worse rubbish for that, from your fiscal comparison among different Italian governments down to the rationale for market-friendly reforms.
About the former issue, most people know that a meaningful comparison between discretionary fiscal stances requires structural budget data, net of the cyclical component produced by automatic stabilisers. In a previous occasion I had already given you the relevant OECD estimates — according to which your statement is false. So I thought you might now have some alternative estimate, which might indeed have been an interesting thing. But no, you are just ignorantly using the gross raw data as they stand. Can you really not understand that this is meaningless?
But even more striking are your remarks about liberalisations. Can you really not know that the whole rationale for them is the role of competition? And that the efficiency effects of competition — as opposed to private or government monopoly — are a very widely observed historical fact, quite independent of the economists' (fairly reasonable) attempts to provide a rational explanation for them? And that, in particular, lack of competition is the root cause of both productive inefficiency in Italy and attempts at LIBOR rigging in London? How much more illiterate on economic matters can one get? And anyway, how sincere or credible may the liberal credentials be of anybody (from Messrs Bersani & Vendola down to you) who take all such practical issues as just "ideological prejudices"?
So, please, stop pretending. Neither you nor your political friends are liberals in any even vaguely relevant meaning of the word. Why attempt to disguise that? My bottom line is that, if honest liberal policies are what they badly need right now — as it seems to me — then Italian electors will be well advised next spring to steer as clear of you as they possibly can.

SinnFrei in reply to Mario Ferretti

"you are now substituting even worse rubbish for that ..."

Kudos for giving "MilovanDjilas" a hit on the nose. He really had it coming.
He is the master of political nonsense. And he can not blame you for being German.:)

Josh_US Lux in reply to MilovanDjilas

Would you be so good and stop insulting me in every other post of yours? Thanks in advance.

And no, I'm not blogging under that or any other monicker. Enough of those cheap shots. Try to convince with an intelligent argumentation for a change. I'm past kindergarten.

Happy blogging. (I'm outta here for today.)


Berlusconi is the last elected premier of Italy. Monti was not elected, he has no popular mandate, he was installed by eurocrats.

Actually, Italy may have been in crisis economically, but this crisis was relatively unnoticed in large segments of the country in Berlusconi's time. A large segment of the Italian economy consists of family businesses, small enterprises, which trade among themselves without governmental interference. And Berlusconi, partly since his voters belong to the aforementioned group, chose mostly not to interfere.

The non-democratically installed Monti, however, is now reaching hard into the pockets/savings of this, perhaps economically the most productive, sector.

The crisis itself also does not have anything to do with Italy/Berlusconi. One could even argue that Italy would have had less of a crisis if it had not joined the euro, which was the dubious achievement of Goldman-Sachs officer Romano Prodi. In fact the runaway debt is partly due to toxic assets sold by GS to the Italian goverment (just like in Greece), and Prodi bears a greater responsibility in that than anyone else.

But, hey, move along, nothing to see here, let's switch the subject to the sex scandals of il Cavaliere.

Banana Republic in reply to Alphysicist

what you are condoning is that tax evasion is a good practice. If Monti had to increase taxes, it is due to high level of tax evasion we have that is nearly 15% of gdp. When Italians are scarred to buy a BMW it is because they have something to hide from the tax authorities. When are you going to learn that no country can survive with tax evasion , corruption or 'furbetti'. In Italy we have invented corruption, just look at Formigoni, he has fined tuned corruption to an art.

Paolo Pasquale

I used to be annoyed years ago by the ongoing attacks of The Economist (or The Ecommunist as Mr.Berlusconi called it) against Berlusconi himself until a few years ago. Now I am no more.
Berlusconi has failed too many exams, he has had too many chances to reform this country,to give him another chance: it would be suicidal and final if it would happen.

But Mr.Berlusconi is not the CAUSE, is the SYMPTOM of our problems. Italy is a country split in 2 parts, in a very sharp, rigid division. This division is NOT North-South as most people think, even if South is the cause of 90% of our problems, and in time it hindered the North traditional work ethic and attitude.

No the split is among the OLD Italy and the NEW Italy: the OLD Italy is made up by unions, pensioners, industry guild (Confindustria), state workers and politicians, i.e. all categories with PRIVILEGES that are out of this world and NO country can afford anymore in 2012.
Unions are led by the communist CGIL, whose leader,Ms.Camusso, makes Rosa Luxembourg a modern thinker, and takes hostage the entire PD (Democratic Party) to its old-marxist policies.
Pensioners (who make up more than 50% of CGIL members by the way...) are still today the result of the SHAMEFUL old rules, with a retirement age of 56 in the best case (best for us).
Confindustria is a block a PROTECTED companies, that the Italian state never exposed to full and open competition, letting them thrive in protected markets (motorways, telecoms, steel, telecoms etc.)
State workers are probably the most inefficient and the laziest in the world, but they are "too big to fail": 3 million people cannot be re-educated, displaced or transferred without causing street protest or revolution. The state bureaucracy is one of the biggest burdens we have in Italy, incapable of providing services, ever growing, and hungry for money.
Last but not least, the politicians, which are the SHAME of Italy, but again are mirroring the nation (or at least part of it): self-referencing, short-sighted, they look only at THEIR interest, or the interest of their constituency, and general interest is last in their mind.

OPPOSED to all this, there is a SECOND ITALY: modern, trendy and trend-setter, working hard, working WELL, innovative, and with a standard of life that no other country in EUrope has.
This second Italy is essentially in the productive North (but not only), with an industrial base that is second only to Germany's Ruhrgebiet. This second Italy has worked and paid for all this BALLAST that it had to sustain (Unions, Pensioners, State Workers, Politicians) until it could maintain the whole country.
Now it cannot anymore, because competition has become harder, money is more difficult to get, and your competitors can count on leaner and more efficient state apparatuses to work with.

This is the FINAL BATTLE for Italy: who will win will define whether we will be part of Europe, or Northern Africa.

And this is what the dumb Ms.Merkel and the Germans (but also the French) should understand: for Germany and for the rest of Europe have a stable and modern Italy with them is without price.
Without Italy, Europe would be ruled by the Dutch and Finnish undertakers (Jutta Urpilainen of the day): a continent very close to RIGOR MORTIS...

economiser1167 in reply to Paolo Pasquale

Where does the Mafia fit into your perfect little picture? And
Berlusconi? As a successful businessmen he must be part of the New Italy. If that is the New Italy..

And state employee Guido Falcone? I don't think things are simple
as you make out. Had to laugh when you included pensioners under the heading Old Italy. What about dividing Italy into those with
'Furbo' and those without. The problem with 'Furbo' is it sets traps for itself and then proceeds to fall into them.

Tangentopoli demonstrated that the problems very much center on the
North. I agree,though, Europe without Italy, would be a Cadaveri Eccellenti.

Paolo Pasquale in reply to economiser1167

Where do you think mafia fits in my picture ? Come on, you can get it !!! And Berlusconi ? Again, easy guess: protected industry....

In any case, you must write from outside Italy, because I realise you have not got a clue on what I am saying, if you do not see a country divided, exactly split in 2 as we are.

And you do not need to be too much "Furbo" to see this division.....

flyingdutch100 in reply to Paolo Pasquale

I saw a country divided in million pieces: north-south, young-old, piemonte against lombardia...shall I go on? "Campanilismo" I guess it's called...i might have messed up the spelling.
Distrust and furbizia is the root of your problems...
1. Hard working young people???? Where? What's his/ her name? In more than 5 years in Italy i did not meet one.
2.Trend-setting? you mean the daily argument "this is how we do stuff since last century"? Or do you mean "everybody says so" argument.
3.Life style like nowhere in Europe? You mean crowds urinating on the streets from April to october? Yes, quite unique. Or do you mean traffic discipline? Quite unique as well.
PLease, give me break.
Medieval country with medieval people stuck in Hogan and Louis Vuitton.

Paolo Pasquale in reply to flyingdutch100

Here it come, the epitome of the NORTHERN RACISM that is going to split Europe.
From your nick I believe you are Dutch, the most unpleasant people I made business with: with YOU the old stereotypes are valid, since you dutch are still mentally at the time of West Indies Company, capable of selling your own mother if the price is right...:-/
Let's do like this: this summer remain in your flat, dull country eating Leerdammer, and do not come to taste good life, art, food in Italy, your brain does not deserve it.
Ah, by the way, do you know what your German masters tell about you ? That NL means "Nur Lemonade", so tight and mean you are...

flyingdutch100 in reply to Paolo Pasquale

Haha, you're so funny!
I can assure you about one thing: lesser and lesser of us are setting foot in italy...
As to the VOC (which was Eastern Indies actually)...something at least we did sell, as we are not begging money from others...are we? We are not in debt Holland even prostitutes pay taxes...You might learn from them.

economiser1167 in reply to Paolo Pasquale

I see a country divided but not only along the lines you have laid out, thats all. Silvio didn't pass his exams? He is only a symptom? The problem with your analysis, is he is a billionaire by circumventing burdensome regulations and so are the many Mafia entrepreneurs. Aren't they just businessmen trying to make a profit and look after their families?

I think the others like Falcone are in the minority and the majority are suspicious of them. What do they produce after all?
Getting themselves killed and standing on principle. Must be Ecommunists of some kind. I'm sure you(and Italians)are clever enough to go a little deeper. Falcone & Berlusconi. Who do Italians truly admire? Thats the crucial question.

Oh and by the way have to do something about those pensioners.

Paolo Pasquale in reply to economiser1167

I like to underline that one of my life rules is "never discuss with in idiot, people might not appreciate the difference".
This is why I like to answer you, though having different viewpoints, and leave alone in his cage flyingf..k100.

IMHO you counteranalysis is a bit exaggerate, but you catch an important point: a lot of Italians still do admire Berlusconi rather than Falcone. Why ? Because Berlusconi represents everything they wanted to be: rich, a lot of women, a lot of sex, owner of an important football team.
He is the symbol of the easy life they would like to have had.
Very important: until last November, Berlusconi denied any crisis existed, and this refusal of reality enlarged our problems a lot, but it is the same refusal of reality a lot of Italians make.
This is what I call the OLD Italy: the Italy not ready to make sacrifices, the Italy that is not ready to admit the party is over, the Italy of TV shows and quizzes, of easy money.
On the other side, what I call the NEW Italy, whose first witness might have been Falcone as you insist: hardworking, honest, ready to sacrifice, but not ready anymore to work and pay also for the OLD Italy.

P.S.: Pensioners: problem is solved, why do you still insist ? With last reform our pension system is more advanced than most European states, if you only think that France want to reduce retirement age back to 60... So what ? Still old stereoptypes like Flyingf..k100 ?

Thank you for your reply. Italy fascinates no doubt about that.
Not Berlusconi, I've never had the slightest interest in him or his sex-life. 'Furbo' is simply the misuse of analytical skills. Falcone was cursed with exceptional analytical skills. The Falcones of the world do what they whether it is appreciated or not.They are always ready to work & pay for the others. As the English say, "Virtue is its own reward."

There is a slight irony in your description of the New Italy as
hardworking, honest and ready to sacrifice because from what I can tell from my meagre knowledge this describes Italian Communists and the Left to a T, you know the people the US were desperate to keep out of power for 50 yrs. The ones they spent much money & (dark)energy to oppose, in the process underwriting
the Italian Economic Miracle. Crazy huh, God gives all the good
qualities except a good business head to one group(I know-there was the odd Craxi) and to the other it gives a good head for business. I don't think I exaggerate.

I won't mention the pensioners again, we'll leave them in peace in their last years. Its the decent thing to do.

James Caird

Gosh one can make a mistake one or two times... not seven! Let's hope that the example given by Monti's governament shall enlight the minds and souls of the voting Italians.

The economic crisis is only in Italy as in the rest of the world. It is very strange that a major economic newspaper as The Economist rather than talk about my pompous solution that I published on my blog site it uncomfortable to criticize on a topic that obviously doesn't know.

ContiM in reply to agan515

I cheched your idea and I believe that is the most useless idea I have ever heard: if we all work more and consequently produce more, who would buy all these products produced when now we have many companies that are not able to sell their product because there is no Demand????

agan515 in reply to ContiM

Mr. Conti, thank you for your reply. However I do not know if you are a spiritual person or not well read my blog site In any case, I can confirm that my pompous solution insuring to the Government an economic flow predictable and reliable to deal with the economic crisis since government debt to ease the tax burden and thus undertake a virtuous spiral that will increase the purchasing power of the citizen who confident of my method will make purchases triggering a positive process and increasingly active.
Thanks for your attention.

ContiM in reply to agan515

The world is nice because everybody is different! So, I have still my opinion that this solution would bring us nowhere, why?
You spoke about a net gain given to the Government. But, if I am gonna work one day more and this material remains unsold, there is no gain for anybody: I gave away one day of work as the company (0 income for both) and we gave our gain to the Government (unsold = 0£ - raw materials = lost) ==> We would even have more debt. The solution is not working more but working better. Also, Italy rely heavily on tourism: if people don't have two day in a row off they won't do week-end away and so taxes and employment from tourism would fall

agan515 in reply to ContiM

Mr. Conti, my method is to pour the Government net gain of a work-free day-Saturday – both on the part of workers and employers. This is a very important figure that serves to reduce the national debt. To the citizen should make this sacrifice for the progressive reduction of public debt will ease the tax burden and the various rates as a tax on consumption, the tax on petrol, rate on annual declaration of income, etc. In these conditions the citizen has gained confidence in the system and begins to purchase goods thanks to the gradual increase in purchasing power. Prices will decline progressively triggering a virtuous spiral in favor of all citizens. I assure you, dear Mr. Accounts that my method is to all economic operators in the world and is the massive success that is registering my blog site Thanks for your attention. agan
Mr. Conti, il mio Metodo consiste nel versare al Governo il guadagno netto di una giornata non lavorativa - il Sabato – sia da parte dei lavoratori che dei datori di lavoro. Si tratta di una cifra molto importante che serve per ridurre innanzitutto il debito pubblico. Al cittadino conviene fare questo sacrificio poiché la riduzione progressiva del debito pubblico alleggerirà in seguito la pressione fiscale e delle varie aliquote come l’imposta sui consumi, la tassa sulla benzina, aliquota sulla dichiarazione annuale dei redditi, eccetera. In queste condizioni ottimali il cittadino ha acquisito fiducia nel sistema ed inizia ad acquistare beni proprio grazie all’aumento graduale del potere d’acquisto. I prezzi caleranno in modo progressivo innescando una spirale virtuosa a favore di tutti i cittadini. Le assicuro, caro signor Conti che questo mio Metodo è all’attenzione di tutti gli operatori economici del mondo e fa fede l’enorme successo che sta registrando il mio sito blog Grazie per l’attenzione. agan

ContiM in reply to agan515

I cannot see how you would reduce the debt in this way. Employee and employers giving away their works for producing goods that nobody is buying: where do you get the money to pay the debt?

Firstly, it is better to sell what is unsold before to produce something that is useless. Maybe because you are reasoning with the wrong system in which we live: I have been recently in Italy and in my city they are still building new houses but it is probably a couple of years that the house market is blocked, why are they still building? Why don't they re-employ these people in restructuring old houses that fall during the earthquake?

In my opinion, the only way to reduce the national debt (not only the state debt but including companies, families, banks) is to have an active balance of trade. Otherwise, you would only transfer the debt from the state to the families, companies and/or banks (what is actually happening in Spain). So, the only solution is to increase our export (through better agreements, improvements in productivity, internationalisation, digitalization and R&D, and the reduction of money wasted in bureaucracy that only fuel the cost of labour) and maybe discourage import (not with restrictions but with communication).

agan515 in reply to ContiM

Signor Conti, lei sta facendo un po’ di confusione! Si concentri solo sul mio Metodo! In seguito possiamo parlare delle sue idee. Immagino che se è stato in Italia (non ha detto dove) lei conosca bene la lingua italiana. Ho scritto, anche in italiano, che operai e dipendenti devono versare al Governo il guadagno netto di una giornata non lavorativa. In euro è una cifra molto grande solamente per un giorno! Lei è in grado di quantificarla? Se poi la moltiplica per 40 Sabato/anno la cifra è sufficiente per ridurre il debito pubblico italiano in poco tempo. Importante è che in questo modo la busta paga mensile non viene ridotta! Però il potere d’acquisto aumenta in progressione e così le retribuzioni possono essere congelate. Abbattuto il debito pubblico si passa alla riduzione delle tasse, eccetera. Se vuole può inviarmi e-mail al mio indirizzo e possibilmente tracciando la sua qualifica professionale. Le sarei molto grato. Distintamente.
Mr Chaplin, she is doing a little confusing! Focuses only on my method! Then we can speak of his ideas. I imagine that if he was in Italy (he didn't say where) she knows well the English language. I wrote, also in Italian, that workers and employees must pay the Government the net gain of a work-free day. In euro is a very large figure for one day only! She is able to quantify it? If you then multiply by 40 Saturday/year figure is enough to reduce public debt Italian in a short time. It is important that in this way the monthly paycheck is not reduced! However, the purchasing power is increasing progressing and so salaries may be frozen. Shot down the national debt will go to reducing taxes, etc. If you can send me email at my address and possibly tracing its professional qualification. I would be very grateful. Distinctly.

Banana Republic in reply to agan515

agan515, I think you have the same problem like all economist including Monti. The problem is all related to system effectiveness; if your have a badly tuned engine and spend money on hight octane fuel you will not get power increase. This is Italy problem, even if we work on Saturday the system benefit (call it economic leverage) will be limited. In Itay we have serious structural problems that impact system ineffectiveness, corruption and tax evasion cause serious economic distortions that make Keynesian policies difficult to apply.

ContiM in reply to agan515

for agan:

1) I know the Italian language and Italy because I am Italian and I live in England
2)It is better that you don't use Google Translator because it doesn't work very well from Italian to English and vice versa
3) I cannot see where the money come from to reduce the debt: if you work one more day and you want to transfer the money to the government, you still need to be paid by your employer: where is your employer taking the money from if he doesn't sell the products?
4) Aren't you just advertising your website on these posts? You continue to post your website again and again....


He is doing something right otherwise anglo-saxon papers wouldnt be up in arms against him.


"Italy is able to govern itself and needs no lessons from Europe" "What does the Economist know" etc etc. These and other answers on the same very Italian and the direct expression of the main reason why Italy and the Italians will just sink deeper and deeper inside the black hole they dug for themselves, with the help of Mr Buffoonery. And boy, do they deserve it.

Banana Republic in reply to agan515

agan515, you criticism of luciusinfabula is wrong. Italians vote for the Government therefore Italian voters are responsible for the action of their governors. Have you forgotten the responsibility that comes with democracy ?

Banana Republic in reply to agan515

I understanding what you trying to achieve; the Italian reality is that we need two things done immediately; corruption and tax evasion. If we start with zero tolerance means that the economy can benefit on a continuous basis in the region of 10% of GDP. We do do this by putting people in jail and fining them heavily. Monti has the power to turn things around but refuses to do this. He can in 2-3 months generate a positive gdp and in turn there will be a reduction in the spread. THIS IS WHY MONTI IS NO DIFFERENT TO PREVIOUS POLITICIANS

agan515 in reply to Banana Republic

Mr. Banana Republic, I am sorry to say but she Italian though (maybe) does not have the slightest idea of the Italian company. If Mr to Olympics she would arrive at the finish line last.
I don't understand why it worries her so much! If you can communicate with me, but before you read my web page and then will be able to communicate with me privately by e-mail to my address I am not a timewaster. Thanks anyway and greetings. agan
Mr. Banana Republic, mi spiace dirlo ma lei pur essendo italiano (forse) non ha la minima idea della realtà italiana. Se gareggerebbe alle Olimpiade lei arriverebbe al traguardo per ultimo. Non capisco perché si affanna tanto! Se vuole può comunicare con me, ma prima legga bene la mia pagina web e poi potrà comunicare con me in privato con e-mail al mio indirizzo Io non sono un perditempo. Grazie comunque e auguri. agan



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