View Full Version : Possible "Spoiler" Alert: Just Another Tobi/Madara/Obito connection theory

11-20-2009, 11:49 PM
Alrighty folks I'm new here so please forgive me if this has already been posted somewheres and many, many apologies if I repeat myself in this post at all:

Now when my fiance and I first read the manga explaining that Tobi was/is, in fact, Uchiha Madara back in '07 we were so disappointed that we stopped reading entirely and stopped following the shippuden animated series. I was convinced that the writers had simply gotten upset that the fans put two and two together and figured out the Tobi - Obito thing before they had gotten the chance to write it. My fiance was further dismayed when they seemingly killed off Kakashi (I knew he wasn't dead - the writer's couldn't have been THAT insane).

HOWEVER, after being talked into it by a friend, my fiance picked up reading the Naruto manga once again. In an attempt to get me back into the manga and anime, my fiance recently mentioned an idea of his regarding the Tobi - Obito - Madara thing:

What if (and this is just a "what if") Tobi is indeed Uchiha Madara but only in mind and not in body. Now the dramatic juxtapositions between Kakashi and Tobi leading up to the Tobi - Madara revelation made it rather obvious that there is some kind relationship in one way or another between Tobi and Kikashi (what that may be - no clue). Now my fiance is suggesting that perhaps Uchiha Madara is simply possessing Obito's body in the same way that Orochimaru tried take over Sasuke's body. Here's some facts that could possibly back this idea up:

- Obito was very dramatically and sadly crushed in the Village of the Hidden Grass as we all know.
- Zetsu is from Hidden Grass and has been working with Uchiha Madara for quite some time.
- Uchiha Madara was according to Itachi a shriveled up old corpse of a man before.
- Tobi is supposed to be Uchiha Madara but only has his right eye sharingan (at least exposed), and is covered in plates, bolts, and pins all over the right side of his body.
- Zetsu's white side often refers to Tobi as "a good boy" as though it is refering to something or someone younger than him/it.
- We never actually see Obito's full body get crushed as the last piule of rocks collapsing on him obviously do not crush him entirely (he is still able to talk, think clearly, breath, etc). Due to this fact, we do not really know whether Obito actually passed away or if he simply slipped into unconsciousness.

In light of all of these facts, the only thing that makes any sense to me regarding Tobi/Uchiha Madara's character is that Madara simply possessed Obito's body after Obito had perhaps been rescued and trained under the tutelage of Zetsu (and perhaps Madara himself). Obito could have easily been brainwashed to a certain extent by Madara, as Madara seemingly only ever wanted what was best for the Uchiha people etc etc and so on, and thus allowed Madara to possess his body for the greater good or... Madara could have simply taken it...? Madara may have been essentially preparing Obito for a "Transformation Ritual" of sorts. Additionally, Tobi's "disguise" personality is perfectly reflective of Obito's silly prankster personality

It's the only thing that makes sense to me regarding Tobi's appearance and association with Zetsu (the missing-nin of the Hidden Grass Village). Otherwise:
- Why on earth would Itachi have claimed that Madara was nothing but a shriveled up old man/shell of what he once was if he was as able-bodied and seemingly young as Tobi?
- Why would he be pinned and bolted up on the same side of the body as was crushed on Obito? (yeah I know he was all battered up from his battle with the First but coincidently on the same parts of the body that Obito was?)
- Why does he only have his right-eye sharingan (or at least only the right-eye sharingan exposed)?
- Why, if he has his other eye, would he bother to keep it covered?

Just a thought.... Please do let me know what you guys think.

11-21-2009, 07:00 AM
It's a good argument.... But, the "take over body" jutsu is something that Orochimaru created....So, yeah... Good argument but... Oh yeah, Madara has Sharingan. So, he could've copied that... No...he couldn't 'cause that's Oro's NEW Jutsu... It's only been around since about the end of the Sasuke arc. So, no, that is sorta impossible.

11-21-2009, 11:16 AM

Actually you're very wrong. The Transfer Jutsu that would be necessary for Madara to possess Obito's body was not created by Orochimaru. It was one of the Forbidden Jutsu that Orochimaru discovered in that barred off library from around the ages of Madara and the likes of him. Watch Episode 114 of Shippudden or read the manga. Orochimaru "created" the Immortality Jutsu based directly off of a combination of the Transfer Jutsu that he discovered amongst the Forbidden Jutsu in the library and the Reanimation Jutsu that he was learning (he did not create that one either as other nin of old times could use it). As he realized that both the Transfer Jutsu and the Reanimation Jutsu had limits he had to combine them and experiment to perfect them so that he could become truly immortal. In truth he did not create the Immortality Jutsu either as many other nins of old times had attempted it via the combination of Jutsu that he uses. His is simply a different version. In Episode 114 the Third clearly knows of the Immortality Jutsu and is shocked that Orochimaru is going to try to attempt it. Orochimaru then makes it clear that he must perfect it. So, yes, this theory on Madara-Obito is very possible and it existed LONG before Orochimaru did. Others in Orochimaru's lifetime had also fiddled with their own forms of Immortality Jutsu using combinations of the Reanimation Jutsu and the Transfer Jutsu. Sasori we know had mastered a form of Reanimation Jutsu and and his grandmother had mastered not only Reanimation but also a form Transfer Jutsu, different from Orochimaru's version but still very similar (she was reluctant to display it as it was a Forbidden Jutsu). As Madara was ages older than Orochimaru and was a veritable genius in his own right he could have easily developed his own version of the Immortality Jutsu based on the Reanimation Jutsu and/or Transfer Jutsu. Do your research before you try to counter with an empty argument like that please. Thanks.

11-21-2009, 10:23 PM
Exactly what I was trying to say in a different thread lol just lengthier

11-22-2009, 04:05 PM
Obito just seems like a character created to explain why Kakashi has a sharingan. Why would Madara take over the body of a boy whos been half crushed with one of his eyes cut out when he could take over any Uchiha since the clan was still alive at that time? It's not like Obito was special in any way other than being an Uchiha. What would be the point storywise of having Madara take off his mask and reveal he's in the body of Obito? Will Kakashi be like "noooo my childhood friend!" and have some kind of epic fight with Madara? Naruto has already surpassed Kakashi with sage mode and defeated Pain when Kakashi got killed almost instantly, so I can't imagine Kakashi even taking on Madara. And Naruto and Sasuke don't even know Obito so there would be no point story-wise of having him be in his body if one of them fight him. The idea of Obito coming back in any way seems like a huge stretch. I think the reason for the mask will be something a lot less convoluted.

11-22-2009, 06:08 PM
Well it could be possible that Madara was getting old or something and he changed the jutsu abit so that he could be immortal in obitos body or something.

12-02-2009, 06:07 PM
You got it all wrong. First and foremost, there is one and only one writer. He plans ahead maybe two hundred chapters before drawing so that destroys your theory that it was changed mid story. Second, you said he was obito in mind and not in body. First, how would that be true? It's true he is sometimes silly, but he is serious most of the time. Not like obito. Second, I belive Madara is inside of tobi's body. There are multiple ways. He was dead for 100 years so you know it's not his body. Obito was the perfect target to take over,(considering he's a dead kid uchiha) so he probably had zetsu fix his body up and trained for years and years with his only sharingan eye (remember he doesn't have mangekyou anymore) and so yeah.