Transcript 18 may 1994 with Comments




  1. Need to find out what time did he speak to Truitt. Did the news give any type of description of me and what I was wearing?


  1. No mention of him observing Dr. Bellas doing the finger nail scrapings. All throughout my whole trial nobody speaks of the blood they detected underneath the nails of Mrs. Franklin. And when the district attorney did ask the detectives to talk about the hands, such as Allen, they seem to me, to go out of their way not to say anything about the blood. They talk of everything else, hairs and dog hairs, but no blood, when clearly you can see blood on them. And then there is Chu, when asked about the blood he said it was inconclusive when it clearly isn’t. I just find it damn odd none of these cops make any mention of the blood they all observed as was mentioned in the police report, and the one that wrote he detected blood under the nails, wasn’t even called to testify. I am starting to think that they were told not to make mention of the blood.


  1. Now we fixing to read something very different.


     4. He said: “And that is when they got a good look at him”. Yet they refused to call Truitt to the suppression hearing or my trial. Why not? It is Truitt they used to get an arrest warrant on me, something just isn’t right about that. I just haven’t figured it out yet, maybe there is nothing there but it is still something that has always bothered me. (See Doyle’s testimony where he testified he did not and could not identify me, but where he is going along with whatever the District Attorney is saying.)


  1. Here he anwered: “and that’s when they talked to him”. He also said: “’They’ talked to the man”. But Doyle said it was his brother in law who ‘got out of the truck and went around it and talked to the man’ (see Doyle’s transcript)


  1. No it doesn’t. My little knife was 2″ and they found no hilt marks, which would had accured if a 2″ knife caused 3″ and a” stab wounds. More so since Mrs. Franklin had a skin condition ‘senile parparus’. So no, my little knife didn’t cause those stab wounds. Therefore, to me it does not fit the description.


  1. I need to find out if the news gave a description as to what I was wearing.


  1. As you can see I had only been out for about 2 months, so yes, when my mom told me the cops were looking for me and on their way to Merry’s house, I split. I had had enough of cops and being locked up. But look at me now, 23 years and counting.


  1. No he said about 7: pm or a little later.

     10. Yes, but what they aren’t understanding is they went down Irvington towards Berry Rd. Not  towards Westford which is the direction I was headed, but towards Ried St. where I lived. They went the opposite direction and again they had no clue where I lived on Ried St. or even where Ried St. was. (see map and see Mrs. Wrights testimony where she was asked about Ried St. It is clear she didn’t know what he was talking about, and again, Ried st is past Westford.


  1. They got a warrent due to Truitt. A person who said he personally talked to the man, as well as Truitts brother in law Doyle who said Truitt went around the truck and had a face to face conversation with the man. However they didn’t charge me with this and they never called Truitt to testify. It just makes no sense to me, something just isn’t right. I just cannot put my finger on it yet. They didn’t even make mention of it during my punish phase of my trial, yet they did bring up every other crime I was every charged with even ones that they hadn’t taken me to trial on yet. I know something is there I just can’t put it together yet.


  1. No question….I can and could had thought of a whole lot.


  1. I don’t fault her for taking the police to where we were at, she did nothing wrong, she was worried about her sister. Something anyone would had done.


  1. But my attorney Felix Cantu, who I have the world of respect for, didn’t call her to testify, if he would had he would had learned that they threatened her as well. She would had been able to tell the court that Allen didn’t allow me to speak with her until after I sign that damn false statement and he stood there the whole time, and I was handcuffed. I was handcuffed because I was under arrest. So yes, he should had called her. She would had shed light on a lot of things. But of course they would say she was lying and still believe the detectives. It is how they do it, and how it works. The district attorney would and does spin it that people who can help you are lying to help you.


  1. I didn’t do anything and I left because I didn’t want anything to do with them or have anything to say.


  1. And yes, I was scared, scared to go to jail for anything, I really thought at first it was for a dirty urine test. I hadn’t been out long at all, and like a fool I was smoking a lot of weed when I knew I shouldn’t had been.


  1. How would he know this? I mean he didn’t see me ‘flee’ out the back door. If they would had, I assure you they would had been on me in a blink of an eye and would had run me down. Yes I left out the back door, but I walked away and they were not there when I left. They did show up soon after. But he nor any of the other cops actually witness me exit out the back of her house.


  1. I have to be honest. I cannot for sure say who it was who told me ‘to look At him and tell him I didn’t do it’ I’m just not sure if it was Stephens, Wendell or Shirley. But it was one of them and he was standing not a few feet from me. What I am sure of is it was Shirley who told me ‘not to worry they are taking her home, ‘and they ‘could’ charge her. And asked me if I was hungry. I told him no, but he still asked me what I like on my Burger, I told him everything. How else would they had known? Allen sure didn’t ask me.


  1. I understand my rights just fine; if you don’t talk they will use that against you and keep you in jail. And use it against you, that is a fact. If you do they still use it against you. That is just the way it works. You cannot refuse to talk to the cops. If you don’t talk that is a sign of guilt to them just like they are saying it is a sign of guilt that since I left when I knew they were coming to talk to me. It is or should be my right to talk to them or not. There is nothing I have ever read that says I have to ‘stay put’ until they come when I know they are coming. A perfect example of it is how my DA at closing arguments commented on my silence. So yes they do and will use it against you. If a cop asks you to give him your name and address, and you do, but then he starts asking you more questions and you refuse to talk to them? Watch what happens next, you will go to jail. So no there is no ‘right to remain silent’.


  1. Those are the Maranda warnings. You have a right to remain silent, (no you do not) and not make any statement as all (right but they will use that against you saying you refused to talk to them and answer questions, that is a fact. Your silence will be used against you, period.) You have a right to have a lawyer (yes, but when I asked for one, and told him repeatedly: “I didn’t do anything” and then that one cop told me to look at him and tell him I didn’t do it. And then he told the others: “Yeah he did it”. ‘ I told him: “Well if you feel like that I want an attorney.” They didn’t give me one. You will get a lawyer when they want to give you one. It is not like TV where the moment you ask for an attorney they stop talking to you. In real life, they take advantage of those who can’t afford an attorney and will keep questioning you long after you ask, unless it is being recorded. But even then in many cases they still keep questioning you.

You have a right to terminate the interview at any time (oh no, you do not! Absolutely not. When I told him I was done talking: “I already told you I didn’t do anything”, he kept talking to me asking me questions. And when I found out Merry was there with the baby he would not stop asking me questions.) So yes, I do understand my rights. Don’t talk to them if you don’t want to and see what happens. You will go to jail until you do talk and they will hold your loved ones until you do talk.


  1. No! He didn’t uncuff me until whoever it was brought me the hamburger and then they were placed in front of me. He didn’t uncuff me until I went out of the office to have blood and hairs taken from me. And then took photos, but right after he put the cuff back in the front. I was cuffed when I got to speak to Merry.


  1. He didn’t do it. It was Shirley, who asked me if I was hungry in the car. But of course, Shirley said he didn’t say not one word to me.


  1. Slightly nervous? I would say so. Who wouldn’t be? But back then, I was a very fidgety, I used to bite my nails until they bleed, I was a very hyper person, I still am, although I don’t bite my nails any more, I am still a very antsy kinda person. I used to be even worse as a child and young adult. Anyone who knows me knows this. Somewhat down cast? Yes I was, I had a feeling this was not going to well for me at all. I just knew I was going to jail for something. So yes, I was nervous and down cast. And I have never been much of a talker.


  1. Right! That was when I became aware that it was Lee and Eric’s’ grandmother who was killed. But he makes no mention of me not knowing her name at first. I swear I never knew her name. I really don’t think anyone of us did. It was always Mrs. Franklin we were not on first name bases.


  1. If getting me to make a statement after threatening to lock the woman I loved up who I was going to marry and her son, who I love as my own away, is voluntary then. Sure, voluntary.


  1. What bullshit. I bet he never in all his years ever told anyone these things he damn sure didn’t tell me this.


  1. I fully understand my rights that i will talk to Sgt. Allen. He didn’t say he had to help me spell ‘fully’ and ‘understand’ and ain’t no way I could spell Sgt. or his last name! I still can’t spell Sgt. / sergeant without looking the word up. As embarrassing as it is for me to admit that, it is true, I still can’t spell worth a damn. I don’t know what else to say about that. Admitting I could not read and write is not something I like admitting. My aunts knew when it came to reading and writing or even talking, I had problems. Everyone in my family were always telling me how to correctly pronounce words, my girlfriends too. I heard on the radio a few months ago of something called ‘letter pronunciation.’

I still have this problem to this day, on words I don’t know. I try and say them but even guys here will say: “You mean?” And that is why I never really talked much as a kid. If I felt really comfortable with you, I would talk, but for the most part I stayed to myself.


  1. This is bullshit, the only Edna I knew and know to this day is my little cousin who is the only person I have ever called Edna to this day. I never called Mrs. Franklin by her first name; number one I wouldn’t had done that out of respect.


  1. He had to read everything to me, but of course I had no problem with giving my blood or hair. I didn’t do anything, granted as dumb as I was back then, I didn’t know anything about blood or hair and DNA. But the was clear, I couldn’t refuse even if I wanted to.


  1. I say it was after I signed that statement he typed up for me to sign. That they took my blood. I could be wrong on that; I just don’t recall it this way. I’m not saying it didn’t happen in this order. But hell I don’t even recall Dr. Bellas being there, but he said he was.


  1. That’s right, that is because I didn’t kill her!


  1. Yes I did, after I found out Merry and the baby were there. He had me and he knew he had me, knew I would do anything he wanted to get her out of there. To make she wasn’t locked up. They would had kept her there for as long as it took to get what they wanted from me.


  1. I believe that is Chu. I don’t recall seeing Dr. Bellas as being the one who pulled my hairs. I need to look into that one.


  1. He told me I was being untruthful all throughout the whole interview! He makes it seem as if he was being Mr. Nice guy the whole time. I assure you he wasn’t. He was point blank and to the point the whole time, he was accusing me. As for him saying ‘his eyes filled with tears and stated he was there’ that is not correct. I recall that moment very well, my eyes got watery from yawning. I had been up for almost two days. With about 3 hours of sleep. I was up all night wondering what they wanted to talk to me about, then up all day with my mom and then with Merry, and then all that night having sex with Merry. So yeah, I was pretty tired. Very tired. I didn’t ‘tear up’ but I can see how he would or anyone would get that impression. When my eyes watered up after yawning I used my finger to clear them.


  1. Now this is flat out a lie. He would not allow me to see her until after I gave that false statement. Merry knows this to be true because right after I saw her she was taken home. About 10 minutes later he allowed me to call her to prove she was taken home.


  1. This is wrong, he is saying in black and white he is leaving someone who just admitted to him that ‘he was there’ after repeatedly lying to him, that he left me, a suspected murderer alone with a woman and a new born baby? That is insane. And either a very dumb cop or a liar. He is lying. Merry knows he stood there the whole time. And I was handcuffed. I remained cuffed throughout the whole ordeal. He just had me cuffed in the front. He only took them off to draw blood. A few cops were sitting in this room. He did not have me read anything. He may had asked me if I could understand English and could I read, but he didn’t ask me to read anything to him. There is no way I would had been able to read ‘homicide division’. I am sure I could had read ‘Houston police’ hell I grew up seeing the word Houston everywhere. I really don’t recall him or any others saying anything to me. I am not saying that he didn’t, I am simply saying I do not recall that. If you would had heard the way I read back, then you would understand that it was and still is embarrassing for me. I still can’t read out loud very well. I ain’t stupid… Just hate reading out loud.


  1. I do not recall him asking me if I could read it, I’m not saying he didn’t ask me that, but I do recall he asked me if I could see the monitor.


38.I really do not recall most of this. But my way of thinking was a bit different. A ‘threat’ to me was a…well an open threat. Like ‘I will kick your ass’, I will kill you’, or show me a weapon, or attack me. That was what I took to be a threat back than and what I thought he was talking about. And I can’t lie, he never said he would or he will lock her up, but he did imply it. And no, he didn’t promise me anything. Not until after when he gave me his word that she was being taken home and promised to let me call her. And he did.’


  1. He typed up this statement. It is not actually ‘written’ by me. I couldn’t had written it even if I wanted to. He did add a lot of words. I would never use and still don’t use this day.


  1. I admitted this after he suggested it to me. Even asked me:”Did you go out the back door?” I told him: “I guess I went out the back door then”. The police can paraphrase a person’s statement. If you think my writing and grammar is bad now, you should had seen it then. I wrote like a child. And spoke very simple if at all, I didn’t talk very much to anyone unless I was really close to them or comfortable.


  1. Sherman? I have no idea what he is talking about.


  1. I can’t recall if he was or not. I am going to say yes. I know there was a cop there, I always thought it was Allen. They would not just leave me by myself. What if I went crazy on the people taking my blood? I’m sure he was there, I could be wrong. I was handcuffed in the front and then they were taken off. Then after put right back on.


  1. I need to look into that. I have no clue what he is talking about.


  1. Sounds like a yes to me. It’s ‘his case’ ‘assisting him’ so yes, he was in charge.


  1. There was no reason to keep her there, much less talk to her. I wish she would had told them no she isn’t going and stayed at the house on Ried St.


  1. This is the one who threaten to lock her up (see Merry Alice affidavit).


  1. All I can say is she left right after I got to speak with her.


  1. He is never going to admit he told me that he can and could charge her. I know he did, he knows he did. He knows for him to admit that it would be to have that false statement thrown out.


  1. This is false, he didn’t come into any room. Sgt. Allen and I stepped out of the office and walked down a few doors where which was the same time they took hair and photos.


  1. I am sure if we looked at many other trial testimonies he may had testified in, it would be mirror Image of this. Likely word for word.


  1. I just simply do not recall him or anyone except Allen and the chemist talking to me about this.


  1. Now I know he is lying. He did have me initial things, but for me to just start reading on my own? No way.


  1. I just do not recall this man asking me all of this.


  1. That’s when they cuffed me at the car, not at the porch as Allen said.


  1. I’ve been saying this the whole time, they should not had taken her and the baby and about that cop telling me ‘to look at him.’


  1. Here is where I told him: “Well if you are going to be like that I want an attorney” and where they first told me they were taking her home.


  1. It’s like he is expecting me to know all these cops names and since I can’t do it, he thinks I am lying.


  1. Yes, I said I read it. But it was read to me and I hate to admit it, but I was embarrassed that I couldn’t read. I hated that about myself. And that’s the truth, I didn’t read it, but I know by saying I did, I did hurt myself then, But now I can prove it by showing my school records. The last grade I actually completed was the second grade after failing the 1st and 2nd then I was promoted to the 6th grade, and then to the 7th then to the 8th. But the thing about that is, I didn’t stay in each of these grades but a few weeks. So I read at a second grade level. People can believe me or not, but my school records speak for themselves. From the second grade to the 8th? A total of 3 month I went….if that.


  1. This man talked to me the whole way to the Station. But you will see later they recall him to the stand and he said he didn’t say anything to me. But you can see my number one concern was about Merry and the baby.


  1. Well, actually he did, because I did tell him what Shirley said to me. Once I found out she was there, that’s all I wanted to talk about. Merry was the number one thing on my mind from the moment I learned she was there. My memory isn’t the best, I admit that, I knew I heard her on the way back from the restroom, but from this I heard her on the way. All I can say is things come and go in my mind. Things get a little mixed up. All I know is it was on the way back I stopped and asked why the hell is she here. And he told me lets go back to the office and talk.


  1. To this day Merry doesn’t recall the phone call, but I did call her from the Station to make sure she was home, and that is when I told her it was my old friends grandmother who was killed.


  1. There was a lot more to the conversation we had about Merry.


  1. He didn’t allow me to see her until after I signed that damn statement. And he was there the whole time. That is all I can say. Who do people believe him or me? Him of course.


  1. He knows damn well they wouldn’t beat her up, I don’t know why he would even ask that stupid question.


  1. I really believed they were going to arrest her. I could not and would not allow that to happen.


  1. Hell, maybe she was there, but for the life of me, I just cannot recall that. I do recall her sister Cole was there and it was Cole who told me someone was on the phone for me. I think I know the difference between the two of them. I just don’t recall Merry being there.


  1. No, he never said he was going to, but he made it clear they ‘could’ charge her.


  1. No, he never said they were going to file charges on her, but again they did imply it. Can/could are not the same as will/would.


  1. No I didn’t and no I Still don’t. She had nothing to do with anything. She shouldn’t had been there.


  1. Seems like he wanted me to say yes. But I kept saying ’no’. The mistreatment was having her and the baby there causing her to worry when she shouldn’t had been there at all. She had never set foot in a jail or station before that day, she has never been in any type of trouble to this day.


  1. Again I am answering his direct questions. And Allen never said that. But they did imply they ‘could’ charge her. I am stupid on many things, but I am smart enough to know what they ment. Cops are slick, I will give them that, they know how to make their point without saying it, but even then, it is their word against mine. They will never believe me, and they didn’t believe me when I told them I didn’t do anything when they were putting me in the car.


  1. Yes, I knew because my mom told me the day after they went to my grandmothers looking for me. But when they arrested me they told me I was being arrested on trespassing. So yeah, I was really confused, I was thinking: “Did my mom make a mistake?”


  1. Yes, I was going to lie whatever it took to convince them I didn’t do anything, and the moment that cop told me to look at him at the car and said tell him I didn’t do and then tells the others that were standing there: “Yeah he did it”. I made up my mind right then and there to not tell them anything and lie if I had to. Stupid I know, and now I know I may very well die for it. But their minds were made up about me.


  1. No, I did sign it only to get her out of there. I loved the woman. I would had never said anything to them if she wouldn’t had been there. It’s true I signed it, but not true I killed Mrs. Franklin. And when I say ‘force’ I mean ‘physical force ‘.


  1. And no, they never filed charges on her. And that is because I signed that false statement. My confession is full of false facts. I didn’t even know someone went in the window, I didn’t know she was stabbed or had her throat cut. I cannot just walk through a locked door. To this day my statement has never been investigate if it would be, it will show I was just saying anything I thought he wanted to hear. And I was really under the impression they could lock her up and take away the baby. I know there are many who will not believe me, I understand that. But I know I did not murder Mrs. Franklyn. Read the statement, look at the factual evidence, my statement makes no sense. Even the TCCA in granting me DNA testing said my statement doesn’t match the physical evidence of the crime scene. I never admitted to stabbing anyone, or raping or trying to rape her, or stealing anything or trying to steal anything, or going through that damn window they said I used a screwdriver to pry open the window. Read the police report where the across the street neighbor told the police she witnessed someone at the window taking off that screen the exact moment I was and Shirley Gunn’s house. Someone who everyone said was the suspect.


  1. This is bull, he wouldn’t shut up the whole trip to the Station. But it is him they believe.


  1. Bull, he did tell me this I know he did, he knows he did. They will never believe me and always take the side of a cop. In their eyes cops don’t cheat, steal, lie, plant evidence, beat people up, kill unarmed people, rape, do and sell drugs. Right? Not cops. They are perfect. And the DA and courts protect them. They have to, if not their whole case falls apart. They will always believe the cops over a defendant every time. Hell they believe cops even when they are caught on camera doing things, they just twist it to fit their need.


  1. His word against mine. I lose every time.


  1. Damn lie. What type of cop allows a murder suspect who is in custody, to talk to anyone a potential witness that if I told her something, I could then tell her: “Don’t say anything”, or for that matter, take a chance of her telling me: “Son’t say anything to them”. No cop in his right mind would do that. I just refuse to believe that. And worst case? I take her and the baby hostage. Whose head will roll for allowing a known murder suspect to talk to a woman alone?


  1. No, he never told me that, but he would not allow me to see her until after.


  1. He didn’t allow us any privacy at all. That is insane. I don’t believe there is any cop that would allow a murder suspect to have time alone with anyone.


  1. I thought earlier that he said that he didn’t say anything to her? No matter, he said he didn’t even talk to her at the Station. She has never  said anything to me about him talking to her. So I don’t   think he did.


  1. Here he said he made it clear to Merry that he wanted to talk to her.


  1. Man, he really should had drilled him more about these things. I think he really dropped the ball here. But truthfully, it wouldn’t had made any difference. They believed everything he said.


  1. And right here was a bad move, he had Merry Alice sitting in the hallway for two days and didn’t even call her to talk about anything. That was a big mistake. But I don’t even recall her being there. But it is clear that she was.


  1. Yes, I was under duress, granted Sgt. Allen wasn’t there when this detective said this to me, but looking back I truly believe that is how they work it. As long as he isn’t around when things like that are said or to where he didn’t hear me tell that cop: “Well if you’re going to be like that I want an attorney”. Then he can proceed as if everything is just fine and dandy.


87. ‘Assuming he had’…my district attorneys saying, even if he did say those things to me, it is okay. Well actually no, it isn’t, the law is  very clear on that. You cannot threaten to lock someone’s       loved ones up or use them to get someone to talk. So therefore it would make the confession unreliable.


  1. No it wasn’t ‘nothing more than an inconvenience,’ she shouldn’t had been there period.


  1. It is an untrue statement, the whole thing is factually impossible. I cannot just walk through a locked door. I didn’t go see everyone I had said I went and seen and talked to. I can’t be in two places at once, so whoever that suspect’ was at the window taking off that nailed down screen the across the street neighbor saw, clearly isn’t me. I’m at Shirley Gunn’s house at that exact moment. I only said it was true because like a dumbass I listened to all those jailhouse lawyers who told me I better not renege on the deal. I really was under the impression that they could still go after her. I knew absolutely nothing about the law back then.


  1. But he didn’t, he didn’t request jury instructions on voluntariness. Which would had help me. More so if we would had been aware of the DNA evidence.


  1. Here I have the district attorney admitting that he allowed my attorneys to view the entire file. That is simply untrue, he intentionally withheld the lab report that showed different antigens. If we would had been aware of it, I would like to think that Felix Cantu would had requested his own DNA expert. Therefore, by withholding the lab report, the DA interfered with my defense.


  1. 92. Here again, we have him saying he provided everything, but my trial attorney Cantu, wrote an affidavit stating that he never saw that lab report and if he would had his whole outlook on the trial would had been different. (see Felix Cantu’s affidavit.)


  1. Extraneous offences. Here is the thing about that, my DA did bring up many things I wasn’t convicted of, such as an aggravated assault I had on a police officer while in the jail awaiting trial, (long story) and not 10 minutes after I get the death sentence, he ‘dropped’ those charges. That was mighty nice of him. He used it to help get the death sentence to show a future threat, but then drops them. But my point is, he never brought up the whole Truitt and trespassing thing, the very charge that allowed them to seek a warrant out on me and to collect my DNA. Why not? Here is why, if he would had brought that up, he would had had to call Truitt to the stand. For some reason that I cannot put my finger on, they didn’t want to do that. I think Mr. Truitt told them I wasn’t the man he talked to…I mean what can it be? This was their best witness, and he actually talked to the man. His brother in law said Truitt got out of the truck and talked to       the man The detective said: “And that is when they spoke to him, and that is when they got a good look at him”. They brought up everything I had ever done in my adult life, except that one thing. That one thing. And that eats at me like you cannot believe.


  1. Evidence favorable to me in the form of a Brady motion, ‘that will be granted’…But yet, even after the DA heard the judge grant my motion to disclose favorable evidence, he still withheld that lab report. And by doing so, made it a Brady claim. But wait and see what the TCCA has to say about that. I bet you they deny me on that violation, saying it is ‘harmless’ they wouldn’t feel it was harmless if it was them or their loved one. I bet that.


95. Right, but again, he didn’t bring up the trespassing or Truitt.


  1. Again, he didn’t bring up Truitt or the trespassing.


  1. No, he didn’t go buy a knife, which would had been allowed, instead he showed the jury the little paring knife that was found there in Erics bedroom that Eric said ‘he didn’t place there’ (see Eric’s testimony) and admitted it into evidence, which is not allowed. All that did was inflame the minds of the jury.


  1. 98. I would like to see this transcript, just to see if Eric or Lee was called to testify. My DA said he was the only one there. But I don’t believe anything he says. If he will withhold the lab report and by doing so denied me a chance at hiring our own DNA expert to test the DNA, and he didn’t make any mention of any of the blood the detectives observed on Mrs. Franklin’s nails and nothing about Truitt…I don’t believe anything the man said. He played dirty. But like I said, the TCCA will side with him. They will say he did no wrong. I could be wrong, and I will be blown away if they do give me a hearing and if they actually agree we have a Brady violation, or a false expert testimony violation and a prosecution misconduct violation. I will be shocked.

Well that is it. It is all up to the courts now. Thank you for taking the time to read the transcript and what I have to say. Thank you.