

#sugar-meeting meeting, 2010-06-21 15:02:00

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Time Nick Message
15:02 sdziallas #chair mchua pbrobinson sdziallas
15:02 #topic Sugar on a Stick Weekly Meeting (2010/06/21)
15:03 We're still waiting for folks to drop in, just letting meetbot gear up already.
15:05 pbrobinson really is here!
15:05 sdziallas hi JT4sugar!
15:05 and hi pbrobinson!
15:05 JT4sugar Hello
15:05 sdziallas #link http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/S[…]k_meetings#Agenda
15:05 pbrobinson waves to all
15:06 sdziallas (which isn't overly shiny this time, but we'll live with that)
15:07 mchua here
15:07 sdziallas hey mchua!
15:07 pbrobinson #info Sugar 0.90 has been accepted as an upstream Fedora 14 feature https://fedoraproject.org/wiki[…]atures/Sugar_0.90
15:07 sdziallas Looks like we have a crowd. Awesome! Diving into this now.
15:08 pbrobinson: whoa, awesome! thanks for taking care of that :)
15:08 #note pbrobinson rockz
15:08 #topic Revised Browse Default Page Feature
15:09 pbrobinson I think mchua has been dealing with this
15:09 mchua We have 2 in our queue today for review
15:09 #link http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/S[…]mitted_for_review
15:10 satellit__ http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/F[…]lt-bookmarks.html
15:10 mchua #link http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/F[…]lt-bookmarks.html
15:10 sdziallas #note mchua rockz too (thanks for overhauling that wiki page)
15:10 mchua So this is the first of 3 we have to review today.
15:11 sdziallas nods.
15:11 mchua Looking at the proposal, it's got more things as satellit__ has been incorporating feedback, but still needs a lot of cleanup work... we need one clear path to testing
15:11 which is why I've been encouraging satellit__ to get his bookmarks.html somewhere public/permanent, like gitorious, so the steps are reproducible.
15:12 imo, this one is not yet ready, but I would be willing to sit down with satellit__ at some point between now and the next meeting and finish it.
15:12 pbrobinson so do we mention that this is still incomplete and delay a decision again?
15:12 mchua Yes.
15:12 sdziallas +1
15:12 mchua satellit__: what you should do is get your change in as a patch in git, so the feature can be pulled in and tested.
15:13 satellit__: er, "what you should do next," that is.
15:13 imo.
15:13 sdziallas mchua: possibly even into browse -- lucian said he'd be happy to answer questions, too.
15:13 pbrobinson mchua: agreed
15:13 mchua sdziallas: Yep, exactly. Upstream when possible.
15:13 #Browse proposal not testable yet; encouraged to resubmit next week - please submit as a patch to upstream Browse.
15:13 sdziallas alright, let's note that then. can haz +1s?
15:14 mchua: mind making that an #action/#agreed? :)
15:14 mchua erp. that would be my suggestion for the #info.
15:14 +1.
15:14 #agreed Browse proposal does not pass this round, not testable yet; encouraged to resubmit next week - please submit as a patch to upstream Browse.
15:14 satellit_Acer ok but I thought feature could be prototype until approval.
15:15 mchua satellit_Acer: We still need a specific route to its implementation - right now there are lots of options for implementation and we haven't picked/tested them reproducibly yet.
15:15 satellit_Acer mucha let me know when...: ) we can meet
15:15 mchua satellit_Acer: After Wednesday this week, just about anytime you find me online.
15:15 satellit_Acer what will determine what it links to?
15:15 mchua sdziallas: Next?
15:15 satellit_Acer ok
15:15 pbrobinson satellit_Acer: in can in that the feature doesn't need to be complete like 0.90 but what's being proposed for the feature yet is not yet complete so we can't vote on that yet
15:15 sdziallas mchua: want more features first?
15:16 mchua sdziallas: right, the other two.
15:16 satellit__ http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/T[…]Soas-v3_Mirabelle
15:16 sdziallas #http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/F[…]n_Kit_DVD#Summary
15:16 Argh.
15:16 #topic Sugar Creation Kit DVD Feature
15:16 #link http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/F[…]n_Kit_DVD#Summary
15:17 mchua I thought we rejected this as a feature because it was too big.
15:17 pbrobinson +1
15:17 sdziallas Yup, right. That's my opinion, too.
15:17 mchua Or rather, that the SCK is actually a superset of SoaS, and is a separate project.
15:18 sdziallas pbrobinson: I think you want -1?
15:18 pbrobinson: depending on the point of view, that is. ;)
15:18 satellit_Acer I did not expect review here today
15:18 pbrobinson sdziallas: +1 to the fact it was rejected. -1 to the vote for it
15:18 mchua satellit_Acer: Does that make sense? This isn't a "revise and resubmit, please" - but a "we think this is inherently a separate project" decision.
15:19 pbrobinson it contains SoaS. By definition SoaS can't contain itselft!
15:19 itself!
15:19 sdziallas pbrobinson: Egg! Chicken! Egg!!!
15:19 satellit_Acer do I try for Project status instead in sugarlabs?
15:19 mchua satellit_Acer: That is one option.
15:19 pbrobinson satellit_Acer: no idea
15:19 mchua doesn't know either, though.
15:19 satellit_Acer I will maintain it (with help I hope)
15:20 mchua satellit_Acer: I see SCK as something SoaS could potentially work with, but it's definitely a separate project.
15:20 sdziallas mchua: I agree with that.
15:20 pbrobinson satellit_Acer: as I suggested I think you should break it down into smaller features. Some things would be worthwhile to get into SoaS itself.
15:20 mchua satellit_Acer: well, it's your project :) so you should take it, run with it, build a community around it.
15:20 sdziallas pbrobinson: +1
15:20 mchua anyhow, the decision is a "no, not a SoaS feature - separate project, take elsewhere", aiui.
15:21 Shall we move on? The last one will be quick.
15:21 sdziallas: pbrobinson: that is, if I get a +1 on that decision. ;)
15:21 sdziallas mchua: you do. +1.
15:21 satellit_Acer pbrobinson the link in revised bookmarks should have met your objections to DVD
15:21 pbrobinson +1 / -1
15:21 sdziallas pbrobinson: :)
15:22 mchua #agreed Sugar Creation Kit feature proposal decision is a "no, not a SoaS feature - separate project, take elsewhere"
15:22 satellit_Acer ok
15:22 mchua #topic ASLOxo feature proposal
15:22 This needs no vote; it's not a feature proposal yet (there's no proposal, the link is directly to a tarred file).
15:22 pbrobinson satellit_Acer: the revised bookmarks idea does meet my objections, when the feature is complete. Once its complete I am but one person that needs to agree its worthwhile
15:23 mchua #info Not a feature proposal yet (there's no proposal, the link is directly to a tarred file).
15:23 #info Please follow the procedure, http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/S[…]for_consideration, and submit for consideration when the proposal is complete.
15:23 sdziallas: next topic!
15:23 satellit_Acer ok I can package it in CD ot dvd format easily from links it contains
15:24 mchua clears the features-to-review queue from the wiki page, now refreshed for next week
15:24 sdziallas mchua: awesome, thanks!
15:24 mchua: next up should be the test cycle?
15:24 #topic Dev Test Release Cycle
15:24 I think we can safely defer this by a week.
15:25 satellit_Acer: has put comments on the wiki page -- maybe this could be incorporated in something like test plans or so?
15:25 mchua My apologies for being behind on that action item. I'll do it right after this meeting; it's pretty quick.
15:25 satellit__ I added it to http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/0[…]ent_Testing_image
15:25 mchua has been rather hosed the past 2 weeks
15:26 sdziallas #action dev test cycle deferred by a week
15:26 mchua #action mchua to start dev/test cycle this week
15:27 sdziallas next?
15:28 looks around, wonders if that's a yes.
15:28 pbrobinson: did you hear from mtd?
15:29 pbrobinson sdziallas: hasn't had time to chase as I've been travelling constantly
15:29 sdziallas pbrobinson: yup, I bet :) that's more than fair
15:30 pbrobinson so can we delay that to next week
15:30 sdziallas #topic post processing script topic (mtd)
15:30 #action deferred to next week too (we'll revisit)
15:30 mtd what's up?
15:30 sdziallas #topic what people plan to work on for the v4 cycle
15:30 mtd ignore me
15:30 sdziallas mtd: you were on the agenda :) (naw, it's... okay, well.)
15:31 mchua actually, I'd like to have the mtd pbrobinson discussion now.
15:31 pbrobinson mchua: sure
15:31 sdziallas #topic post processing scripts (mtd)
15:31 mchua and let's see if we can conclude that in the next 30m, then I'll say it's a meeting well-spent. :)
15:32 sdziallas here we go! (I think we can move the "what we're going to work on" to later / next week, too)
15:32 mchua: totally agreed.
15:32 mchua sdziallas: actually, we can move the "v4 plans" to list for now... I'll bring it up again when we have several sample plans to actually look at.
15:32 sdziallas #action move v4 work plans to list
15:32 mchua: yup, sounds good :)
15:32 mchua We're still very much getting our bearings with this whole idea of regular meetings + action items + processes here.
15:33 pbrobinson mtd: can you cover what you want to do in the post processing scripts in the .ks
15:33 mchua And the scale will tip a bit too far in the "whee, procedure!" direction as we get started, but hopefully it'll balance out shortly.
15:33 shuts up and listens
15:34 mtd pbrobinson: ok.  For background, though, I was just summarising what I thought was a sensible next-step for the "More robust .iso" feature, and because I was the last person to speak, got tagged as having raised the agenda item :).
15:34 pbrobinson: the idea here is that "more robust iso" feature is basically "SoaS shuold ship as a pre-partitioned disk image with ext3 rootfs".
15:34 as I understand it
15:35 stop me, anyone, if that's wrong
15:35 sdziallas mtd: that's what I understood, too.
15:35 mtd pbrobinson: so
15:35 pbrobinson: I think that goal is achievable with a bit of scripting that takes the livecd-tools .iso image we get now...
15:35 pbrobinson: and:
15:36 1) creates a pre-partitioned disk image (cue loads of partition / cylinder /etc. nuances here)
15:36 2) unrolls the livecd-tools' nested filesystems and copies the contents to the disk image from #1
15:36 and
15:36 pbrobinson mtd: ok, we're working a couple of options for that outside of SoaS as well with the hope of letting someone else deal with 1)
15:37 satellit_Acer can it expand ext3 to fit USB?
15:37 mtd 3) does any hacking of the filesystem contents necessary to remove any undesirable assumptions about the livecd-tools' filesystem configuration.
15:37 satellit__: yes
15:37 pbrobinson: so...
15:37 satellit_Acer +1
15:37 pbrobinson mtd: so hopefully liveusb or livecd creator can deal with that by SoaS-4
15:38 mtd pbrobinson: #1?  cool
15:38 pbrobinson: so my idea was that the blueberry SoaS branch had scripts to do 1-3 that I had made for the XO-1 builds...
15:38 sdziallas mtd: :)
15:38 mtd pbrobinson: ...and that they could be trivially adapted to run on the .iso spin-output and create said build.
15:38 pbrobinson: the one other advantage of doing it this way...
15:39 pbrobinson mtd: do you have any of the details of what the blueberry scripts did documented at all?
15:39 mtd pbrobinson: ...besides the whole "we're still a spin and use Fedora infrastructure to do it"...
15:39 pbrobinson: (coming)
15:39 pbrobinson mtd: i think we need more than a one prong approach to this so very interested
15:40 mtd pbrobinson: ...is that we still have the livecd-tools .isos, are completely in tune with any features it provides, and can still have an image suitable for using from read-only media.
15:40 sdziallas mtd: (basically, if I get you correctly, you're proposing to roll the stuff from the buildscripts back then $upstream?)
15:40 grins.
15:40 mtd sdziallas: yes, insofar as upstream, which is focused on creating a livecd - read-only-root - image, will accept.
15:41 pbrobinson: sure, I'm just, recall, summarising a useful approach that I see.
15:41 sdziallas mtd: I think I like that plan. :) (from what I heard)
15:41 mtd pbrobinson: so I think that summarise it, happy to discuss the other prongs, clarifications, etc.
15:41 sdziallas I'm +1 to pbrobinson exploring approaches here.
15:41 mtd s/summarise/summarises/
15:42 sdziallas pbrobinson: I'm not meaning that you *should* explore approaches but that I'm +1 to what you said. :)
15:42 pbrobinson mtd: sounds great. I'm hoping to get an option added to liveusb-creator to do something other than overlay in that tool. mchua is facilitating that this week with a face 2 face + icecream
15:42 mtd pbrobinson: the blueberry scripts's documentation is, at a high level, what I've just said, but of course as they get more mature / critiqued / relevant, additional documentation could be written (I swear I've tried to explain it plenty of times, so maybe I'm not the best person to try again :))
15:42 mchua Indeed. I brought lmacken up to speed as best I could last week and he promised us face time this week to, essentially, dump everything he had to push on us, update us, and then leave the path clear for us to do stuff henceforth.
15:43 basically is unblocking us on lmacken.
15:43 mtd pbrobinson: cool, sounds like an eminently sensible approad.
15:43 ch.
15:43 mchua mtd: I'm happy to take a crack at that documentation, just point me at the stuff that needs to be explainified more.
15:43 pbrobinson mtd: we catch up for coffee next week or when I pick up the other stuff.
15:43 mtd mchua: well, basically, what I said in 1), 2), and 3) above, I think.
15:44 pbrobinson: sounds good.
15:44 satellit_Acer can we also resume distribution of vbox appliances on /soas/appliances for v4?
15:45 mtd satellit__: in the past that was all downstream of the unrolled-livecd-iso process, so no reason why it couldn't be done again, I guess, except tfor the disk space and download bandwidth it consumed.
15:45 pbrobinson satellit_Acer: I don't plan to because you can boot the ISO and then install it to _ANY_ virtual options including all the others
15:46 mtd satellit__: so the people that a) coded that creation; b) provided the disk space; and c) paid for the bandwidth would have to decide :)
15:46 satellit_Acer I have  been making them and loading to  Tgillard
15:47 mtd satellit_Acer: sounds like the people that agitate for b) and c) have just spoken.  Someone like yourself or SL could take over.
15:47 mchua mtd: ok, I dumped it in http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/M[…]ailed_Description so I'll see it when I take my next pass through. I'll bring this up with pbrobinson and lmacken when they talk this week; my goal for that ice-cream fest is to finish this feature proposal so we understand the direction + scope-of-work there.
15:47 satellit_Acer ovf for import like USR
15:47 pbrobinson satellit_Acer: stop using the me thing. its annoying!
15:47 mtd mchua: sounds good.
15:47 satellit_Acer ok
15:47 new toy
15:49 sdziallas Alright, can we get a motion for this?
15:49 Or an #action?
15:49 pbrobinson satellit_Acer: so if we do VBox what about qemu, kvm, vmware, xen, and other images? The reason for not doing them all is because they all support booting a VM using an .iso image so its a lot less QA and engineering as well as hosting and bandwidth
15:49 satellit_Acer ok
15:49 mtd sdziallas: I think the action is what mchua said
15:49 sdziallas: err, she indicated two actions, I guess
15:50 sdziallas #action what mchua said above :)
15:50 mtd sdziallas: #action further iteration on http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/M[…]ailed_Description
15:50 mchua #action mchua, pbrobinson, and lmacken to meet and finish  http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/M[…]ailed_Description so we understand the direction + scope-of-work before our next meeting.
15:50 #action mchua, pbrobinson, and lmacken to finish a Pru Frappe.
15:50 :D
15:50 mtd sdziallas: #action mchua to facilitate ice-cream fest to finalise http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/More_robust_iso feature proposal
15:50 sdziallas mtd: yeah, that works too :)
15:50 mtd dammit, she types fast
15:50 mchua Indeed I do.
15:51 Anyhow, I think this is good - looks like we have a heads-down week coming up, lots of work to do.
15:51 sdziallas Alrighty.
15:51 Anything else?
15:52 mchua #topic dev/test/release process
15:52 pbrobinson mtd: mtd and pbrobinson to meet as a follow up to other meeting to sync up mtd and cover blueberry scripts
15:52 mchua #link http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/S[…]s#Testing_process
15:52 pbrobinson bah
15:52 mchua #action mtd and pbrobinson to meet as a follow up to other meeting to sync up mtd and cover blueberry scripts
15:52 pbrobinson #action mtd and pbrobinson to meet as a follow up to other meeting to sync up mtd and cover blueberry scripts
15:52 LOL
15:52 mchua: thanks!
15:53 mchua And *now* I think we're done.
15:53 sdziallas Perfect!
15:53 mchua or at least I have no other business.
15:53 sdziallas hasn't, either.
15:53 mchua It may seem like a lot of meeting overhead, but this is the first time we've really done central, public communication on a regular basis about SoaS.
15:53 So... we're getting there. Yay, running as a more and more sustainable project with regular engineering (and soon, QA)!
15:54 sdziallas Yes, I'm really happy with this happening!
15:54 satellit_Acer make spread sheet on wiki?
15:56 sdziallas #endmeeting

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