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Seduction Tuition . Com

Playing Hard To Get - Being The Challenge - Being The Prize

Author: Tyler Durden

I talked about posting some more advanced material for guys who are interested. Here is a first helping. If you're not interested in dense material, read something else.

This is one of the most important posts I've written in some time, and it will likely go misunderstood given that most guys will not have the field experience to appreciate it. It is the most important thread I've posted in six months.

For guys who can gain attraction very consistently, but still have trouble getting laid: read this post until you have it down.

A few things to keep in mind, I want to throw out here:

-Buying Temperature Spikes
-S/C Switch (Screening vs Chasing switch)
-Social hook point and sexual hook point
-Female psychology (autopilot responses, socially conditioned buying temperature regulation, value responses, choice making fuck rationalizations)
-Bodylanguage subcommunication of hard-to-getness (the idea of not saying you're hard to get, but communicating it with your bodylanguage)

***This post is directed towards girls who you ascertain are attracted to challenging guys. Not all girls are like this, but many hot girls are. Again, many aren't. For guys use or advocate other styles which don't make use of this sort of stuff, the reason that they are getting laid is that they using other means of getting laid. There is more than one style. This post is something that is useful for guys in my context, and if you're using a totally different style than me, then this stuff may be useless to you.


Many of the hottest girls are extremely responsive to hard to get guys. Anyone in field has experienced the scenario where he plays hard to get and having the girl chase, but as soon as he shows interest he is blown out. This can happen even as late as the bedroom. Like, you'll have a girl chasing you all night, isolate you back home, but because you make the first move, she locks up and the pickup is over.

There are several reasons behind this, and in any given situation the lockup may have been caused by one or all of the reasons.

Firstly, you have autopilot responses. Think to the last time that you walked down the street, and a vagrant asked you for change. Perhaps you said "no", and kept walking. You don't consider it a lie. It's just an autopilot response to a social situation. Girls are the same with the LJGD ("let's just go dance") or "let's go to the bathroom", when their buying temperature goes down and their logical social conditioning kicks in and says "This guy is trying to sleep with us. He may be attractive, but who cares, I'm not meeting a guy at a club. I'm leaving this situation to go dance, because that's why I came to the club in the first place."

Notice also, how in all of the times that you've told a vagrant "no" when you were asked for spare change, there were those few times when someone asked you for help, and you said "no" out of habit, when in fact as you walked off you might have thought to yourself "Shit, maybe that guys' car really did break down. He didn't look like a vagrant. I wonder if I was a dick to him?"

The same goes for girls. They'll screen guys out as an auto-pilot response, and later wonder if they made a mistake (but they don't care, because another guy will come along in two seconds anyway). Attraction and how alpha or how sexual you are is not a factor here. Even very attractive guys get screened out for no logical reason. This is purely an autopilot response that you have to recognize and dodge. That is why we use opening tactics - they open consistently.

Likewise, girls will leave a set as their buying temperature increases too fast, as an autopilot response. They think "I don't know this guy. This guy knows what he's doing, and probably does it to all the girls. I'm getting out of here." This is why we use fractionation tactics, so as to avoid her disengaging you. Note also, that typical C&F push/pull is NOT a fractionation tactic. C&F and the like is not indirect, even if you are flirting around that you are hard to get. Girls know that if you're taking the time to engage them, even in a C&F hard to get flirtish type way, that it is not the case that you are *legitimately* hard to get. This is in the same way that when a girl comes up to me and says that my shirt is stupid - I know that she wants me. There is no difference. C&F is simply a *competent* way of flirting, that says a million and one great things about you. It's still (arguably, depending on semantics) a direct approach in some ways. It's just a direct approach that girls like, because it still shows that you are willing to walk away - you're interested, but you can take it or leave it. So that said, you can see how "You're my new girlfriend.. No wait, you don't have x-whatever? We're broken up." is not a fractionation technique. It's highly competent flirting, but its not *actually* conveying that you don't want her in a way where she really believes it.

**If I had to pinpoint one reason why guys who come to this stuff have trouble getting results, its what is outlined in this post. Girls are used to sex going down in a certain way. Walking up to girls and overtly trying to pick them up goes against what they're used to. It's a violation of social norms. Girls will tolerate it as cute, and they'll be interested to see what you'll do. But they'll rarely sleep with you (unless they are at a certain point in their lives where they are open to the idea, which I'll post about below in terms of "fuck rationalizations" - and this does happen often, which accounts for alot of the success that we see with other styles of approaches). Guys go in trying to convince the girl, when they should be BAITING the girl into convincing THEM. As a result, most of the bold moves that guys who come to the scene attempt, wind up not yielding any results.

So back on female psychology then, why do girls like *actual* hard to get guys?

Girls naturally enjoy having their buying temperature pumped up high. So if they can get those emotions out of an interaction, without worrying that the guy will exploit her suggestable state and have sex with her, then she can just get all emotionally aroused around him, and enjoy it. Of course what happens from there is that she backwards rationalizes it, and then convinces herself that she legitimately wants the guy. From there, she decides that she's going to get the guy, and starts chasing him in a manner as unsophisticated and blatantly obvious as how a pissed drunk AFC would chase a girl that he wants at a party. She'll kino him, giggle and scream around him, compliment him, signal her friends to help her, and try to isolate him.

Notice, as this post goes on, that this last paragraph explains why just getting a girls' buying temperature up high is not good enough, and that she actually has to chase. It's because of the backwards rationalization process, and the sexual hook point that she crosses over as a result. The S/C switch (screen/chase) gets flipped.

There are also issues of validation at work. Notice that if you tell a girl "I hate you", she starts touching you immediately, and begs to know why. Notice that if you engage the whole set, but actively ignore the choice girl, she'll start trying to get you to talk to her. This is all validation. It's more validating for the often insecure hot girls, to sleep with a guy who will reinforce that she is beautiful.

Think about your last cute girlfriend. She was cute. She was great in bed. But sooner or later, you got used to it, and took it for granted. Your relationship started stagnating. Then you're out at a party one night, and all these guys are giving her attention. Her friends are there, and she's having a great time just doing her own thing. All of a sudden, she looks different. She seems different. You say to your friend, "You know man, I was just thinking how cool Kathy is. I really want to stick with her." Then she comes over, and sits with you. And its like "Wow, I actually have this girl with me. This is awesome".

Haa - she's no different than she was an hour ago when you were sick of her. But when you can tell that someone doesn't need you, they just SEEM different. There's something about it that's hard to articulate. But what it boils down to, is that all of a sudden, this person's attention has become a source of validation for you. And as a result, they seem more attractive. (BTW: I use the paragraph before this one as a killer routine in sets, except I take out the part about stagnation and focus more on how I know that I appreciate someone and the positive sides of it).

In addition to the validation issue, there are basic genetic/status explainations and accounts for why hard to get guys are appealing. Very basically, guys who are sexually pre-selected by other girls because of their genetics and/or social status will be hard to get, because they can't be bothered with chasing women. They simply walk around, and girls chase them. Chasing a girl is in some ways subcommunicating that you are not one of these guys. If you go to the high class venues in Los Angeles, the mere act of actively picking up is looked down on by the highly socially proofed guys. They'll say things like "That guy over there is trying to pull ass. Kick him out."

A counter argument is that an alphamale will see a girl that he wants, and will just go up and assume the sell. This can also work, if you genuinely come across that way, and if you have the followup to back it up congruently.

Generally though, this is uncommon. Natural PUAs generally just walk around, and girls give them AIs (approach invitations) or make it really easy for them by throwing themselves at them, in a way that most surrounding men just don't recognize (and women don't acknowledge, as this would be a breach of "Secret Society" to admit what's happening, and would break down their whole system of secretly being the CHOOSERS). Note, that the idea of the alphamale who does approaches in society is a SOCIAL MISCONCEPTION. This rarely happens. Generally, natural alphamales do not do cold approaches. I've travelled all over North America and Europe, and I rarely see it. I know exactly what to look for - and I *rarely* see them initiating cold approaches. It happens only in certain communities, like London and NYC. But this is very very uncommon, and even in these communities 99% of the naturals who get laid often are still not doing cold approaches.

The ideas that "men take all the risks in escalation" and "men do the approaching, women do the receiving", that the academic community of psychologists and zoologists have espoused is BAD DATA. It is literally a fallacy and blemish of the academic community. It is a pathetic and glaring example of the follies of academia's white ivory tower armchair theorism, from eggheads who couldn't put any of their theory into practice if you gave them 10 years of prepare it (this is a gripe that I have as a student of political and analytic philosophy, that I see transferred over into this field as well). What these social scientists don't see (AFCs that they are), while they're watching all of the interactions that they supposedly use as empirical data in their published studies (which influence social understandings and thus social conditioning), is that while the men are the ones approaching and escalating, it is the women who are throwing themselves at these clueless men, until they do something. So in that case, the woman has virtually ALREADY DECIDED that she wants the man, and from there she just doesn't admit it (secret society breach), but rather throws herself at the guy until he escalates. She even puts up silly shit tests like (this from a double lay that SB007 and I did on a 2set that we pulled) "Just because you're renting that hotel, doesn't mean we're going up with you."... and later on in the night .... "just because we came up here, doesn't mean we're sleeping with you.." And typical AFCs, will say "Wow, we really plowed through that resistance", when in fact these girls had chosen to sleep with SB007 and I LONG before we'd taken them back to the hotel that we rented right in front of them. We were the hard to get guys, and just let them play out their dramatic act of throwing themselves at us in subtle ways, while pretending that they we didn't know what was happening. And then we allowed them to structure the extraction while making it look like it was our idea and not their fault, and then afterwards they denied responsibility for what took place, while they still email us regularly and want to meet up again. These girls would claim that we chose them, when in fact they chose us - which few people realize is the way it almost always happens.

The idea that "girls choose" also stems from the male/female social dynamic in our society, and the practises and habits that spawn from it. Men are unconsciously giving sexual validation to attractive women all day long, in one way or another. It's either they're checking them out, asking them the time, trying to make small talk, or pivoting left instead of right as they walk out of a room - when it would be faster to pivot left but he can catch a glimpse of her by pivoting right. Girls are all too aware of this stuff. It's built into them. They also go to the club religiously, to relish the process of guys buying them drinks and checking them out, and then shooting them down. A quote over from literally the hottest girl on my campus two months ago after an off-night: "I'm so depressed. No guys approached me tonight. I would never get together with a guy from a club, but I can't believe that I didn't get approached."

So what winds up happening, is that girls get into a pattern of not seeking out sex. They tend to go in cycles, where rather than chasing sex, they simply decide to give it up at arbitrary times. "This is the day that I will give it up." So for example, a typical girl will have a "revenge" fuck, a "just broke up with my boyfriend rebound" fuck, a "I haven't gotten laid in exactly 6 months" fuck, a "I'm on vacation and there are no social consequences and I just want to have fun" fuck, a "I need to revalidate myself being snubbed to prove I'm beautiful" fuck, a "romantic tryst adventure" fuck, a "jump on the sword so my friend can have her guy" fuck, a "I haven't gone home with a guy before, and all my friends have and I want to try it" fuck, etc etc etc. Then of course there is the "I've been dating this guy 3 months, and he provides well and its time to give it up now" fuck, which is the one that we typically aren't concerned about on this chat forum.

The girl has had sex available to her continually, but she can't "give it up" at every opportunity that comes around, because she'd wind up sleeping with 15,000 different men by the time she was finished. So instead, she comes up with rationalizations of when and where to give it up.

Thus, it is the case that girls are in the habit of making the choice. The second that they see that the guy is trying to make the choice for them, the sequence is broken, and their auto-pilot response kicks in and they automatically go back to screening him (even if they like him), just as they had on every other day prior to this one. (Don't make the mistake of thinking that you still don't have to do the work in making up BS excuses so that it isn't the girls' fault, once the ball is rolling. That is a different story. It still has to be "not hard fault". What's being discussed here is a separate issue from that).

This is the fallacy that guys make when approaching. They think that they can choose the girl, because they've pumped her buying temperature and she's been receptive to it. In practice though, if the S/C Switch doesn't flip, she'll still just sit back and enjoy the emotions, without having to give up anything in return. That's when you get situations where the girl will hang with you alll night, but won't give up her #, or she'll give it but she'll flake, or she'll give insurmountable LMR even if you extract.

That's because the right SEQUENCE hasn't been initiated, to make her "Today is the day" switch flip (where she'll pick from one of the many fuck-rationalizations, in the heat of the moment). And that sequence is "Guy is attractive. I can't take it anymore, so today is the day. I choose guy. I throw myself at him in oblique ways that he can't directly prove is me actually doing it. He eventually notices my actions and picks me up. I do nothing to help it move along, but if he makes everything happen and alleviates me of responsibility then it happens. He takes the credit for picking me up." The sequence is NOT "Guy walks up and tries to attract me. I decide that I'm attracted. I let him fuck me."

For that reason, the guy may have switched every attraction switch in the book in terms of buying temperature, but unless she is the one making the choice, the S/C switch will not be flipped. She is attracted, but her thought process is STILL occupied with trying to find every reason possible not to let anything happen.

She must switch from the typical mode of perpetual screening, to chasing. Her THOUGHT PROCESS must be switched. She must believe that you are a guy who is a source of attraction (ie: buying temperature escalation), but that you are not intentionally doing it to her. This is the same reason that if you tell a girl that you study 'pickup', she will be offended. You are breaking the sequence that is protected via the Secret Society, so to speak. You are messing up their ability to make a "good" choice.

From there, she has switched into chase mode. She is no longer dwelling whatsoever on why she shouldn't do anything (as she would be perpetually, if she thought that you were trying to lay her). Now, she's focused only on how to make it happen with you. Her thought process has changed. The S/C Switch has been flipped. She's focused solely on making it happen (except that she's not admitting to herself that she's trying to "get laid" - nope - she's just trying to continue the interaction back to somewhere that it could happen, despite that she deep down knows that she IS trying to get laid, but won't actively admit it to herself).

So that said, how do you trip that switch early on? Let's look at some straight tactics.



What is a buying temperature spike? You've all seen it. It's when you do or say something to give the girl a quick shot of emotions. Like a C&F remark where she goes "Oh!" and swats you. Or you tell her that you know something that she wants to know bad, and she goes "OMG OMG OMG, tell me tell me tell me!" Or when you run a really tight story that has her dying laughing or excited or intrigued. Or if you do a DHV, like the coin snatch trick or Mystery 's 3 and 7 routine, and she freaks out. Or a great joke. Or even just coming in strong with good bodylanguage and tonality, and sucking up the attention of everyone in the set, and her buying temperature shoots up (you see this when you go in with an opener, and the girls just jump to talk to you or answer your question). Whatever.

You see it on their face, and you see it in the way that they turn their bodylanguage towards you, and when they kino you. Her buying temperature has shot up. Usually, it hits in abrupt bursts. Little spikes on the graph. You know you can't *maintain* this level indefinetely, but you can hit that level in bursts.

These buying temperature spikes are the right time to start doing subtle takeaways. That is, not the kind of takeaway where you walk off into another set. Rather, you just break eyecontact with her, and face away a bit. You *exactly* what the girls do to you, when you're gaming them in a club, and they get distracted because a peice of your material is not strong enough. You turn to your friends or the bar or the dancefloor, and you make it look like you're about to leave.

*But*, girls are very much accostomed to getting what they want. So unlike most guys who will give up, their instant reaction is to go "HEY HEY HEY, keep talking.. What were you saying??? What???"

That is your first step in getting the girls chasing. You have conveyed that you might walk away at any point, and all of the aforementioned issues are now dealt with. You are an attractive guy, and you have very clearly (in such a subtle way) demonstrated that you are not trying to get her. IOW, the natural process of her becoming attracted to you and choosing you has begun.

This kind of timing takes time and practice to cultivate. It can also be learned right off the opener. Here are some examples:


1- "I'm shy":
My friend Shannon walks up to a set. I walk up to her and she introduces me. I say "Hey, I'm shy" with a super cocky look on my face, and turn to Shannon and say "Let's go outside". Here I looked like a cocky cool and fun guy, who they were about to get a little bit of buying temperature entertainment from - gratuitous entertainment for their night. But I *spotted* that look on their face, so I automatically took it away. *But*, I left a hook that they could grab on to. I said "Hey, I'm shy", and then turned to Shannon as if I were about to leave. In fact, I wasn't, but knew that they'd force me to stay. From there, they scream "Why are you shy?! Why are you shy?! Don't go.. Why are you shy?!", and I roll back in and game them. You can also use "I hate you", "I hate you guys", or "I hate girls". These work amazingly well as followups, and work well when you're merging into a set with your wing. Again, the girls say "Why?? Whyyyy?!??"

2- Eyecodes and bluffing that you're entering the set, and flashing peacocky zipper:
I walk by some guys who are gaming a set poorly. I walk right up to the set, and do "let's go" girl eye code to the girls (I roll my eyes, like "These guys are tools"). I also make little eye movements down to where their hands are too eagerly touching the girls, and make eye movements at the beers that they bought for them, and smirk right after I see them. The girls know what's up - they can tell that I know the deal of how women are. I walk right up like I'm about to out-alpha the guys, but then shake my head a bit like "This is too lame for me to even bother with", and then back away while still maintaining eye contact with the girls. Here I am using my PRESENCE as something that will give them a quick buying temperature level spike, and then I am withdrawing. I then proceed to tug on the zipper of my very peacocky zipper covered (BAIT) vest, and look from her eyes down to my vest. I have provided the bait. The girls immediately go "Hey! That vest is awesome! Let me see! Let me see!", and blow off the guys and jump over to me.

3- Take over set with C&F comment and AMOG blaster:
I look over from my barstool, and plow in with booming tonality some C&F comments, and proceed to shoot a quick out-alpha routine on the AMOG. For anyone who read my FR last week, it was a coment about a girl saying that everyone thought she had fake breasts. I yelled over "That's great - they'll give you boyancy if we're ever lost at sea. You'll be the only one to survice". Both girls look at me, and are intrigued. Then the AMOG says "Hey, this is my girlfriend", and I reply with "Haa, cool.. You guys look so similar, I thought that you guys were brother and sister. If you guys have kids they'll look like (I do a funny impression)." I then make a comment to the guy that he owns this end of the bar, turn my barstool around, and takeaway. Again, I have come in with COOLER presence than everyone else. I added energy to the group, which spiked up the girls' buying temperature, and then noticing that I immediately took it away. The girls immediately re-open me.

4- Opinion opener:
This is something that I do all the time with Sickboy007. Like all the time. This is key to our game. We roll into set talking amongst ourselves. Like we are the coolest guys in the club, and not needy at all. We're having more fun in our own conversation than we could be talking to anyone else. (Note: We usually actually ARE, so this is congruent. We talk about cool shit while we're in the field, and joke around alot. This keeps our state up, and is much better than talking game in field and getting too analytical). Despite being both guys, because we are both cool we actually provide more social proof to eachother than a female pivot would. So right off the bat, we look like best friends who could care less if they'll talk to us or not, because we are cooler and more interesting than them. We tap one of the girls, and run the first line of the opinion opener. They're thinking "Wow, those cool looking guys we saw are actually coming over to talk to us". Then they give their answer, and I we immediately turn our bodylanguage away from facing them, and into eachother. Then we assimilate their answer into our conversation, and transition into joking around about other shit that the girls DON'T GET, but it sounds interesting. So the girls see that we basically just tooled them to add to our own fun, and they can see that our conversation is so fucking interesting that they want to join it very badly. After all, we weren't rude. We just didn't follow them like puppydogs, like most guys would. So notice that the hook has been laid. The girls will interrupt us, and say 'Why did you ask us that? What about David Bowie?? What?? What?? How old is your little sister??" They keep trying to get in, and win us into a conversation.

**Notice that in all these cases, I'm laying the bait on the hook, and then pulling it back. I don't actually walk away. I just make the initial body movements that I'm about to walk away, because of the way that I pivot my body. But I'm not actually walking away. In fact, I'm not going anywhere. I know that if I lay the hook right, they'll start trying to re-open ME. It's all in hitting it at the *exact* moment, and then turning as if you're about to walk away, but providing some bait that they can open you off of, so they don't have to think too hard (God forbid).

In addition to setting the hard to get frame, there are other things being laid down here that will help your pickup as it goes along. When you come in with a straight opener, and then start talking, she will often go into "receptive mode". An example that I do in seminar to explain this, is I'll be talking for an hour, and then out of nowhere I'll point to a student and say "Hey man. Do me a favour. Say the coolest thing that you can think of right now. Just say any random cool thing. Whatever you want." *Never* has a student been able to do it. They just sit there gawking, and they can't think of a single thing to say. Likewise, nobody else in the room can either. That's because their brain has been in "receive" mode for the last hour. They've been sucking up all the info, and their mental process of calling things up isn't in gear. It's like doing your math homework. Your first problem takes you 10 minutes. Your second one, 5. Then every one after that takes 1 minute each. That's because your brain has engaged into "math mode". Likewise, if the girl is just listening and listening, she won't be able to qualify herself to you very easily, because she's too busy taking what you're saying all in. So what winds up happening (and many guys will recognize this phenomenon), is that a pause occurs in the conversation, and because the girl feels the emotion of discomfort that she can't think of a way to fill it, she immediately says "Cool. Anyway, I have to go dance now". And POW, even though she was digging you, she left because the emotion of not having anything to say sunk her buying temperature so quickly. Another reason, is because by talking so much, you're logically disengaging her so strongly, that the sudden cognitive shift from the emotional saturation of being gamed without having to contribute anything, to suddenly actually having to (God forbid) THINK about what to say, will slam gear shift her brain into logical thinking so fast, that its like slamming your car from 5th to first gear, while driving 100 down the freeway. So better, is to get BOTH her mind thinking of what to say, and buying temperature still escalating. This happens, because she's getting excited by the process of actually gaming you. You've baited her into selling herself on you. This is a basic persuasion tactic. Nothing more. Before she's even had a chance to decide whether or not she even wants you, you're already taking away the option. But of what she's seen of you, you spike her buying temperature, so she felt high attraction for the second that you were there. That way, when its time for her to pipe in, she can easily think of something to say, and the set will hold, AND she'll be more likely to be able to qualify herself to you.

And that said, they often WILL do things to qualify themselves to you. You can AMPLIFY this again, with some playful hard to get tactics.

This is a really fucking key peice. Pay close attention to it. Say for example, you went in with "I'm shy", and then pulled out. They'll say "Why are you shy? We're nice girls!" You can reply "Umm yeah.. You're OK.. Oh shit, you have a belly button ring. Don't show me that." Immediately, you'll see them jumping up and pulling your face down to look at their peircing. They'll say "Look at it! Loooook at it!!!!" Then you look at it, and like they've entranced you, you talk to them a bit more.

The same can be done after you exchange signs. They'll tell you that they're Libras, and you say "I can't talk to you anymore.. You're trouble". This is as if you're moderating your own buying temperature. You turn your back on them, and they'll grab your shoulder and say "NO!! You tell me your sign NOW!! Are you a Libra too?!?!"

Another one you'll see alot, is that you run the hook, and pull back. Typical girl tactics, they'll start touching you. So say that they touch your shoulder. You can act like it feels really good. You mumble "That actually feels really good - my shoulder is so sore. You have to stop doing that.. Stop.. Seriously.. That's a bad idea.." They'll do it more and more. "OK, you're getting me all emotional.. enough.."

Even without hook openers though (which I only use a small percentage of the time), I can still engage the chasing just further into the set. It doesn't require that you do it right off the opener like in the case of hook openers. Its convenient if you can do it early, but it isn't required at all. The only time limit is that the dynamic isn't set in stone that you're too giving and eager. So long as I avoid that scenario, I will only do it off the opener if I spot a buying temperature spike. Otherwise, I proceed as normal, until I see it.

I do the same on tonguedowns. I'll be kissing the girl, and then I'll pull back, and mumble "OK, stop.. We seriously have to stop." They'll say "Why?" and keep trying to push more. You say "I'm just getting so....." and then they'll pull you back in. Do this repeatedly. This is an extension to the Style kiss close, where he goes in with "I'm trying so hard not to kiss you right now".

Basically, the idea here is that you BAIT the girl, by giving her information on how to seduce you, but telling her not to do it.

The thing is though, that you have to be congruent with it. You actually use your bodylanguage at various points, to deliberately try to screw up your own pickup. Because girls are used to getting what they want, they'll re-initiate it HARD. This is NOT just a verbal thing. It's a bodylanguage thing. Girls respond to how you use your body. Try to speak using your body.

This is very similar to martial arts. It's like "parry, strike, dodge, parry, strike, dodge.. strike.. etc etc.." You're going "Hit up buying temperature, pull back.. Give her an idea of how to seduce you, pull back.. Give a bit.. Hit up buying temperature again.. Pull back.. Hit up buying temperature again.. Pull back.. Give her an idea.. Pull back.. etc etc"

From there, when I do extractions or get a phone number, I also make them work for it. Often, they'll be walking away and say they have to go. I'll say "OK" and just look at them blank. They'll immediately offer their # or to take mine. But that aside, I also use bait to make them go for it. I'll wait until they say something cool, and I'll act like a girl whose buying temperature just shot up. I'll look intrigued or excited and say "Wow. Geez, I have to take you to x-place". I'll pick something that I know they want bad. Something that they'll react to. Or I'll just use something ordinary, but I'll map out a scenario (using future adventures projection of us doing awesome stuff), and just go with that. They'll immediately offer up their number. Then I'll say "OK cool", and just change the subject. Just like how a girl does to guys. What's next is funny to watch. She'll start trying to naturally "slip in" that I should take her number. I'll keep saying "Yeah cool, I'll get it later". I keep doing this, until she's asked me to exchange numbers around 5-15 times over the next hour. Often they'll just ask me for my number out of concern that I won't call. When I finally acknowledge that I'll call is when she does something impressive. Then I'll say "WOW.. What was your number again? I'm definetely calling you." Moreover, girls will also try to extract me for food after the club closes. I'll say "Yeah awesome!" but then turn to my wing and keep talking to him. They keep pushing for it, and they'll run and grab their friend and try to make their friend convince me as well. Then I'll capitulate. I may not necessarily wait for them to initiate it. Many just won't. So instead, I'll wait for them to do something to impress me, and then I'll suggest it. If they're giving me a backrub, I may say "I'm hungry. I want to go to Denny's after this."

But I do the same in the other direction. I act just like a flakey stimulus seeking girl. If they bore me, I just walk off in distraction. If something interesting happens, I'll walk over to it to check it out. If a good song comes on, I may just get up and walk away. If they say something I don't like, I'll lean away and start looking at other girls. They have to keep tapping me on the shoulder and tell me to keep talking, in order for me to stay attentive.

So how do you seduce in a case where the act of seducing would be incongruent to everything you've built up. They play it up, and the girl tries to get them, but then they stupidly go against everything that they've been doing get them attracted all this time, and start trying to seduce them. This is incongruent. It kills attraction instantly. It relies on some fallacy that the girl likes you for your personality, when in fact she may, but it is not relevant to her *attraction* for you. You're switching gears too quickly, from 5th to 1st gear, in one foul swoop. It doesn't work. Attraction dies instantly. I've had girls who went completely cold, even after spending hours with me - all because I dropped the hard to get act, and started trying to escalate - without doing the right transition work (I will explain).

Instead, you have to play it smooth. This requires you to have strong verbal skills and calibration skills. The girl has been getting you comfortable being closer and closer to her the whole time, so its fine if you're right next to her, and even in kino. But you have to keep presenting challenges to her, and punishing and rewarding her with those challenges. She'll say something that I like, and I'll lean in like I'm about to kiss her. Then I won't. I'll slowly start moving back, until she says something else that I like. Then I move in closer than the first time. Then I move slowly back. Then she says something that I like, and I move right in to kiss her, and say "You're getting me all emotional", and pull back. Then I keep my face up to hers, and we talk face to face, with lips grazing eachother, and she says something I like and turn my face and stop talking, and then her talking will merge into triangular gazing and my lips will graze hers more and then we're making out. I may also say "I'm not going to" at different points, when she's obviously trying to move in to kiss me. If she says "Not going to what?", I won't answer. Rather, I'll just keep talking in the quiet face-to-face way that we've been doing.

Also - again, you can do things like "You're wearing Channel? Don't let me smell it.. Don't..." (she'll practically tackle you and put her neck up to your face to make you smell it). Then you can phase shift, but then snap your own state and move back. But as you're moving back, you say things to pump her buying temperature.

A GREAT thing to reward girls for is also dancing in front of you, or in between your legs. Although they'd never admit it (Secret Society Breach), dancing is a sexual exhibition. So if you can make her perceive that her dancing is what's getting your buying temperature up, she'll feel fully qualified. You kiss her, but you still don't keep trying. You just do it, and then sit there blank afterwards. She still has more to do.

Remember that this is like fucking with magnets. You're constantly backing off, but doing it SPECIFICALLY at a time when you know you've spiked buying temperature, so that she'll chase the stimulus.

That's the part that's so hard to convey in text. I show this to guys in workshop no problem, but I can't explain it that well. You have to actually take the time to mentally catalogue all of the little bodylanguage mannerisms that girls use, when they're getting distracted. And then you use these on them. And when you use them, you have to TIME it just at the right time - right when you hit on the right emotion. Always remember that there are so many fucking little ways that you reveal that you really want her. It only takes the slightest slip, and the jig is up. You have to be congruent.

Note that if you pull away at the wrong time when her buying temperature is down, she'll backwards rationalize that she is not experiencing attraction, and that she's not attracted to you anymore and that she's HAPPY that you're backing off. This will end it. So you have to have the verbal game and physical coquettishness to play this up properly.

Now as for seducing, this is like trapping an animal that you've baited closer and closer. If you do decide to pounce on her, do it ONLY once she has been baited too close, and she won't be able to get away. What I mean by that, is do it only once you have her lying with you snuggling, and then you can start playing your late game. If you do it prior to that, her physical horniness from contact with you won't have kicked in yet, and she'll have nothing to counter-act the state breaker that you dropping the hard to get act was playing up.

Notice, btw, that there is both a social hook point and a sexual hook point. Style has talked about the "hook point", as the point in the pickup in which the girls have stopped wondering "why is this guy talking to us", and have decided that they don't want you to leave. They'll do things to help the conversation continue, and your life becomes much easier. The same goes down the line, where there is a sexual hook point. You'll see this alot, especially with girls on vacation. This is where they've actually decided that they want to hook up with you. If you get this kind of girl, you'll notice zero LMR down the line. If you escalate, she will not resist IF she feels that she worked hard enough to get you. If not, then her desire to meet a challenge has not been fulfilled, and instead she thinks "Haa, he wants me for no reason like everyone else. What a chump."


Anyway, in summary, a few points to have taken from this are:

1- There is a natural social process that occurs, which women don't want you to know about. They want you to think that you're the one who picked them up, so they don't have to "be responsible" for it. However, this fallacy has spawned guys in this community to develop pickup styles that violate social practices, in a way that isn't effective. (I violate social practices myself, but in a way that nobody spots). That's why when you talk about hitting on girls, the girls don't like it. But if you ask them "How *would* you like a guy to hit on you?" they have no realistic reply. It's because they secretly know that they pickup guys, but don't admit it publically or even to themselves.

2- Being able to attract a girl is often not enough. Girls find themselves wanting to sleep with various guys that they see all day long. What it takes to actually get laid, is to flip her S/C switch, so that she's decided "Today is the day. This guy is the guy". This is why there are many guys in the scene who can run a tight set, but still don't get laid. They have a certain part of their game down, but need to work more on flipping that fucking S/C Switch.

3- Being aware of buying temperature spikes, and knowing WHEN to pull away is key. If you just pull away at arbitrary times, you will not get a result.

4- Guys think that looks is the most important part of a pickup. In fact, its brains. You have to be smart as fucking hell to do this stuff. You have to think fast on your feet, and you have to calibrate. Most guys don't have a repertoire of material that will spike buying temperature, and fall into a trap of talking about situational stuff, which girls just interpret as you trying to get rapport with them, and makes you unchallenging.

5- There is a difference between a girl being attracted to you, and a girl wanting to fuck you. If you are TOO GIVING in set, then you run the risk of being the first guy, not the second. You have to be giving, but strategically.

6- To implant the idea of seducing you into the girls' mind, you have to have a repertoire of material to do so. That is BOTH material to entertain sets so you can pull a girl from her group or open a lone girl in a way that doesn't set off an autopilot response, but also you have to have material that gets her thinking that she wants you and gets her chasing you. This material is a combination of regular material that you use to spike buying temperature, and then pulling back, as well as recognizing anything that you can misinterpret as her trying to seduce you, and then pulling back from that as well, which raises the challenge and makes her do it more, and then you can play with it in the ways that were mentioned.

Tyler Durden

