Friday, November 07, 2008

What to do about the BNP?

Trixy has had a little run-in with the British Racist Party, after she objected to them trying to cosy up to UKIP and claiming support from the Royal British Legion. It's early in the morning but it got me thinking.

  • The BNP are a legal political party, with quite a significant number of representatives at council level and a vague possibility of some Westminster or Brussels representation next time we waste our ballots.
  • Loads of organisations - police, schools, the ballet - will sack you for being a BNP member.
  • Loads of (il)liberals will start screaming for your head on a spike if they discover you have any sympathy with the organisation or even if you agree with their representatives on any specific point (and I have even agreed with Scots Nats on a variety of local issues.)
  • I doubt I am a screaming racist although I probably have some degree of xeno-phobia (the French for a sodding start) and, living the frozen North, am not going to lie to you as claim loads of black friends (or, for that matter, black enemies).
  • Whereas the generic 'we' probably don't hold, and may even deplore, the BNP's positions on many matters, this is the thin end of an extremely authoritarian 'thought crime' stick.
  • I happen to think that "Young Earth Creationists"* and "Intelligent Design" advocates are dangerous loonies who should be kept away from any involvement in the education system. Should my opinion about their entirely legal (if credulous and unscientific) beliefs be enforceable with the sack - especially if they keep it to themselves and don't try and ram it down the throats of their charges?
Clearly, anybody engaging in a crime should be suitably punished after a fair trial and certain motivations for crimes are given special additional punishment because of their corrosive effect on society (e.g. attacking members of the emergency services). But holding opinions, however unpleasant? Many people want to see the return of the death penalty (I don't - I don't trust our prosecution systems and courts to get things right, especially in the sort of notorious cases that would attract the death penalty) - something specifically illegal in the UK under HRA98. Should these people all be thrown out of their jobs (however better a read it might make the Daily Mail)?

If the statist cunts that are failing to run this country had the courage of their convictions (fat chance) they would actually ban the BNP and be challenged about it in court. In the absence of that, perhaps leaving them to fester in their own bile is the best idea and punish people for what they do or try to do rather than what they believe.

Having said all that - my sympathy for Trixy - but that is what you get for poking a wasp nest full of vicious fanatics with time on their hands.

* Like my 2nd Form Chemistry teacher. Oh joy - the basics of organic chemistry being taught by somebody who thought believed that Bishop Ussher may have been out by a whole hour! Or, apparently, by 60 years according to Alice - the joys of Google!


Ted said...

Hi mate are you a member of any party ?

Surreptitious Evil said...

Not at the moment.

I happen to believe that membership in a political party or active campaigning on a political issue is inappropriate for a Crown Servant (even part-time), as you are expected to deal even-handedly with politicians (and governments) of all varieties. Although, when I made the decision to support Dan Hardie's Iraqi Employees campaign, it was an exception to my rule on the basis of over-riding moral necessity, something which does not apply at anything like the extent required to the EU (even to the French!)

So, even though it is (hopefully) quite clear where my sympathies lie, I am still not going to join either UKIP or the Libertarian Party or, for that matter, even the Tories while I still hold my commission.

Anonymous said...

this is a reply i tried giving to someone on the EVIL propaganda BNP site: This is just a way of getting you to vote BNP without you looking at who they actually are. This is what they are:

seriously, just like the Nazi's in German they are using propaganda to get you to vote for them. Do Not Vote For them, if there are NO other parties that are good, dont vote at all (yes, all polititians are evil) .

Hitler had a deep hatrid towards Jews, The BNP Leaders have a deep hatrid towards muslims(whatever you want to call them).

You may vote this comment low, but that means your going with the crowd and not actually thinking of what your doing.
Im still quite young, but im not stupid, I dont want to grow up and have to deal with anything similar to the Nazi's...

And so, it is waiting for moderation... ofcourse they wont let it be seen, they are controlling it.. them english version NAZI's.

Surreptitious Evil said...

Oh dear. An anonymong sub-literate. Just my luck.

Dear Anon,

Actually, this is what the BNP are like.

You are a pretty spectacular moron if (actually, I am getting the strong impression you are, regardless) you believe the BNP restrict their visceral racism to Muslims, of whom, it has to be said, there is some reason in the current world climate to be nervous about. They really, really don't like [coughs], kykes, wops, pikeys, niggers, wogs, chinks, eyeties, gooks, nips and frogs. And apologies to any racial slur I have failed to include :)

Now, would you please bugger off and try to find somebody who gives a shit to annoy? The only reason I allowed your cretinous drivel was in case some clueless wanker (yes, I am still talking about you) thought I was a BNP supporter. I would have thought that reading the first line of this rather ancient post would have given you some clue of where my sympathies lie (or, more specifically, don't).

Anonymous said...

Hi Surreptitious evil
i was doing a bit of the old bored search when i came across this post but it turned out to be quite interesting.

I would just like to comment and discuss a few things.
Firstly i have to bring this up. As i said i have only glanced at these posts but i saw in your last comment towards 'Anonymous' you were having a rather cringy dig at calling them sub-literate and how they left no name. Well unless by some odd chance your parents hated so much they called you 'Surreptitious Evil' i would not make small and petty jokes at another person for conceding no more information on themselves then you have. Also i see this as neither hear nor there. If i gave you all my personal information, would that make my points, views and political arguments more valid?

Secondly i very much agree with you that when you say you see Nick Griffin's or a BNP point on a single matter, then people immediately think you are some kind of Nazi supporter. I personally find the BNP a disgusting group with the majority of their views and their overall manifesto agaisnt humanity and ethics that i cannot even fathom, but if they raise a point on dealing with, lets say, a way of boosting up the reading age for deprived children in inner cities and rural areas in the House of Commons, then i believe we should listen to thier point and hear what they have to say (this being a democracy and all) and then if their point seems flawed or not correct, then we should all debate it and give reasons why it is not correct or is correct, rather then just dismissing them without even hearing what they have to say. Anyway.. that is what really gets to me, the lack of democracy.

But yes i beg you not to give up on politics all together, still have faith. Yes, at the moment it is more like comparing which MPs we don't want in power rather than chosing MPs we actually like.
Out of the major three, and dont judge me for this, i rate the Liberal Democrats the higest. Now in no way would i be proud if someone in another country asked me who was our Prime Minister and i had to say Nick Clegg, but he is and his party, just a thousand times better than the others at the moment. He is the only one proposing realistic goals with figures, tables and the like in their manifesto. Whereas, as usual, the Conservatives promise nothing but media headlines, and on the matter, please.....Please dont vote conservative or anyone who reads this post. I know their ideas sounds good and really in our best intertests, but honestly look into them, its scary how little they would help and (in majority) how a fair amount of them actually would totally contrdict their aims. Again they are just ot gain votes, in practice are so un-workable.

I hope i have not just wasted blog space and actually made some kind of contribution. Now i would be so grateful if you were to post my post.... only because i would love some kind of debate with someone, either you or another poster about any of the points i have rasied; on the Lib Dems, Conservatives or BNP.

Cool :)

Surreptitious Evil said...


Firstly, you need to understand the difference between 'anonymous' and 'pseudonymous'. I post as Surreptitious Evil because I am often quite rude here - see the fiasco with DK's blog for one - however, I post, here there and everywhere either under my own name or under a consistent nym. That makes it easy to keep track of who is saying what to whom. Of course, I have no idea whether you are or aren't the Anon from 2008 - I would guess you weren't. I'm not asking for personal information - I'm asking for something that allows referral - many blogs now reject purely anonymous comment.

Sub-literate - yup, I was, deliberately, rude. Spelling ('hatrid'), punctuation ('im') - it annoys me. You seem to have a problem with the capitalisation of the singular personal pronoun!

Anyway - I've yet to hear a BNP policy that I consider rational. As well as the odious racism, they are also nationalist socialists, well to the left of even the SNP. Even Gordon Brown came up with some good policy ideas (although independence for the Bank of England on interest rates is the only one I can think of.) On the other hand, they might come up with something ... Still, what annoys me is the stealth banning of the party - you can't sack somebody for being a member of Hizb ut Tahrir - an utterly unpleasant but legal party, why should you be able to sack somebody for being a member of the BNP. If TPTB want to ban the BNP - do it and take the legal flak (HRA Articles 9, 10 & 11).

Personally, I think the 'Liberals' would do better after an honest attempt at renaming themselves. The 'Statist Collectivist' party would be accurate, if hardly euphonic.


(c) 'Surreptitious Evil' 2006 - 2017.