DirteDeeds 5536 points5537 points 8 months ago




discerningpervertHotPie 2506 points2507 points 8 months ago


RustyCoal950212 1482 points1483 points 8 months ago


discerningpervertHotPie 828 points829 points 8 months ago


bobby-b-botRobert Baratheon 623 points624 points 8 months ago


Noxious_potato 32 points33 points 8 months ago

He would have shat himself

Skakul 18 points19 points 8 months ago

Yeah? Well I'm thinking about what Cersei would think

Avril_14 380 points381 points 8 months ago





RustyCoal950212 140 points141 points 8 months ago


LongSatan 131 points132 points 8 months ago

"Knew" is not the same as "Remembered".


gorgossiaA SONG OF MORMONT & MORMONT 5 points6 points 8 months ago

I was thinking Arya would sneak Jaime and Hound into the Red Keep and some amalgamation of Cersei murder would follow.

Alas, earwax.

TheGameOnFuck the king! 2 points3 points 8 months ago

The rage is real. I like you stranger.

villan 2 points3 points 8 months ago

What makes it even more ridiculous is that they had just taken Casterly Rock by sneaking in through secret passages...

nybbas 1 point2 points 8 months ago

Davos knew about it too.

NoMoreNicksLeft 62 points63 points 8 months ago



SwordoftheMourn 3 points4 points 8 months ago

Fucking missed opportunities amirite?

YeOldeVertiformCity 23 points24 points 8 months ago

That’s like 3 levels above the writing that we were dealing with. That’s Breaking Bad writing - you write a brilliant character by having a big group of people in a room brainstorming things the the smart person might come up with on the spot.

Right now we are getting hack Prime Time Soap Opera level writing. You have a bunch of emotional “moments” you want to get to, and you just sort of duct tape a plot together to get you to those moments...

You end up being fine with people making obviously terrible decisions and you just hope the audience is too busy looking at their phones when there isn’t violence or nudity on the screen to notice.

They didn’t even need dragons because 20 good men could have snuck into the Red Keep from Tyrion’s beach entrance and captured Cersei alive... and they had a faceless assassin!!

AcadianViking 1 point2 points 8 months ago

One issue with using the secret passage would be Dany. Even when she wasn't going all Sunday BBQ, she is a sucker for showboating. The glory is her's and her's alone. If she didn't have a way to shine in granting freedom of the people of KL from their unfavored ruler, she would lose her way of gaining the people's devotion.


Last5seconds 5 points6 points 8 months ago

And even if there were scorpions, the dragons could have just picked up a few boulders and done some high altitude bombing, especially with Euron’s fleet.

xeromage 5 points6 points 8 months ago

I wanted to see the dragon swimming and attack the fleet from below. They were so fucking unprepared for that and it would have been awesome. Don't tell me something with a tail that long can't swim fast as fuck!

pocket_eggs 15 points16 points 8 months ago

Fuck, they could have made Varys a dragon saddle and had him point them out live.

Johnnyp382 3 points4 points 8 months ago

But where would the conflict be then??? Oh yeah, the supernatural ice beings that would have brought winter to kings landing and turn this into a cosmic horror battle worthy of the universe of a song of ice and fire.

greenroom628 2 points3 points 8 months ago

also, tyrion's bs line about "a well placed arrow could end your reign before it began" would've been horse shit with 3 dragons. two to fly ahead to get rid of any pesky archers and top it off with flying into them with the sun behind them... can't shoot at what you can't see.

shit... i know i'm armchair commanding but fuck man... where's my lordship?

CruzAderjc 1 point2 points 8 months ago

They could have snuck a spec ops Unsullied team into King’s Landing to do this, while simultaneously having the full Dothraki force surround King’s Landing with the main Unsullied force standing outside the gates, and the Dornish/Ironborn Navy in Blackwater Bay, with Daenerys taking out high value targets from above. She could’ve taken out King’s Landing with literally less than 100 deaths if she wanted to.

NoMomItsDubstep 1 point2 points 8 months ago

10k IQ Varys does this in the books but marks the orphanage, puppy factory, and schools.

lots_of_stuffs 305 points306 points 8 months ago


Infidel6 126 points127 points 8 months ago

Dragons having no real challenge


They squandered both.

bostonian38 15 points16 points 8 months ago

Holy fuck, you’re right. They could’ve gotten book Euron and single-handedly taken out two birds with one stone. And instead they went with none.

dukeslver 113 points114 points 8 months ago

its obvious because that's what the narrative has been leading to.


ILoveWildlife 7 points8 points 8 months ago

they flat out said they don't care about the plot; that they just wanted "watercooler moments" for the next day so people would be talking about it.

czarchastic 6 points7 points 8 months ago

Controversial thought, I suppose, but GRRM should share the blame for everything that’s bad about these two past seasons. If he would’ve finished the books, the show would’ve had a direction to follow.

nmayfield94FORGESEXXX 82 points83 points 8 months ago

They just wanted to subvert expectations guys, thats all

ILoveWildlife 7 points8 points 8 months ago

instead they've subverted their careers.

Disney must be pissed

way2excitedaboutthis 2 points3 points 8 months ago

Probably to give us a sense of pride and accomplishment.

TundraWolfe 168 points169 points 8 months ago



pharmermummles 73 points74 points 8 months ago

I did find it odd that fire just explodes stone walls.

NoVeMoRe 11 points12 points 8 months ago

Even worse, some of the stone buildings in the streets started crumbling apart before they even got hit by Drogon's fire.
I mean they could try and explain it away with the blast-wave of the fire being powerful enough to just knock down stone buildings, but how the fuck are so many characters just perfectly fine after being in the direct vicinity of a flaming deathray of doom that even makes buildings explode 5-10m away from its flames?

I'm willing to grant them blowing up the wall at winterfell since Viserion may not have used normal dragon fire or was boosted up by the NK's magic or some shit. Not to mention that those walls were ice-cold and the stonework likely already a bit compromised and moist. So it could make sense that a sudden rise in temperature would cause enough steam to build up to force an explosion like we saw.

I really feel like i'm grasping at straws here.

TalentedKeyhole 16 points17 points 8 months ago

Yet Drogon fucking erupted everything his fire touched in Ep5.

Actually the way his fire would blow brick buildings apart implies that his fire actually has an incredible amount of mass to it, which makes no sense at all given that he was able to breath basically an unlimited amount.

peachesgp 4 points5 points 8 months ago

It was like a fuckin Michael Bay movie.

PogueEthics 5 points6 points 8 months ago

Dont forget Jon hid behind a 4 foot pile of rubble safely from undead dragon fire breath

Charmingly_Conniving 5 points6 points 8 months ago

Melting doesnt produce ashes. Also melting would be a lot of cgi.

But also i agree that was dumbz

murse_joeI'd kill for some chicken 3 points4 points 8 months ago

To be fair, there was a lot of wildfire still around the city too, some of the explosions in the ep are green to callback to that.

It could also be that Balerion could control the intensity of his flame as he got older and more experienced. An exploded castle is good for winning the current war. A melted castle keeps people from starting the next war.

nybbas 3 points4 points 8 months ago

Exactly dude. Kings landing was an inside job. Someone filled everything in the city with dynamite so that it would ignite and explode when the dragon breathed fire in it. Wake up sheeple. Dragonfire cant explode stone structures.

DirteDeeds 1 point2 points 8 months ago

I didn't have a problem with the walls blowing apart. Ive watched loads on old Roman building techniques. Those stone building with arches and walls aren't held together with mortar. Its basically gravity itself that holds everything in place. An arch can be built out of stone that stands without using any mortar at all.

If you apply force and thousands of degrees of heat its going to weaken that area thats hit and the thing would collapse under its own weight. I watched a show on an old gothic cathedral built in the 1300s that almost collapsed soon after building. The reinforcment arches on the outside were put in the wrong spot so the inner arches that made up the windows downward force went Into a support beam. In ancient times they had to wrap a huge iron chain around the whole thing and modify the arches on thr outside to prop up the building.

Diem480 84 points85 points 8 months ago



way2excitedaboutthis 18 points19 points 8 months ago

D&D are like that annoying kid who keeps changing the rules to the game so that he wins.

Squirrly22 45 points46 points 8 months ago

To be fair the one notable instance that scorpion bolts were used against dragons was the Dornish fleet against Vhagar, Vermithor, and Caraxes. All three of which were much much older and larger than Drogon and the Bolts the Dornish used all glanced off their scales, which makes sense as the older dragons get, the thicker their scales are. Rhaegal was practically an infant compared to those three dragons.

lots_of_stuffs 28 points29 points 8 months ago

I didn't consider the hardening, it would make sense since later smaller dragons were killed by mobs of peasants in the dragon pits, I think we'll have to wait for twow and ados to find out

jofus_joefucker 1 point2 points 8 months ago

The only reason they killed a dragon the first time with a scorpion was because they got super lucky and managed to hit it in the eye.

Darktitan27 6 points7 points 8 months ago

I have been more heartbroken at the Dragon deaths than any character.

hypatianata 1 point2 points 8 months ago

Animal deaths are the worst deaths.

Avril_14 4 points5 points 8 months ago

there's so many things happening in got without the use of ANY army, so many tricks that Cersei could have pulled, but no, they needed to make us LOOK AT THAT HAVE YOU SEEN? HOW COOL WAS THAT? A LITTLE GIRL STABBING A GIANT! FLAMING SWORDS!

There's no battles in got until Blackwater and even there is almost all wildfire, still there was so many things going down that it was almost hard to follow, you never knew who was a good guy and who's so sad what they did to got.

darkagl1 6 points7 points 8 months ago

Except in the books one of Cersei's allies has a magic horn that controls dragons. And there is a magic item that destroys the wall. And there's the Night King's sorceress. And there's Aegon with the Golden Company in Westeros. The last few seasons are chock full of stuff they cut coming back to bite them in the ass.

Curious_Arthropod 4 points5 points 8 months ago

If i remember correctly euron isnt cersei's ally in the books. He wants to conquer the entire seven kingdoms. He sends his brother victarion to mereen. Its been years so i dont remember it very well but im pretty sure euron and cersei never met in the books.

17954699 4 points5 points 8 months ago

Not only that, the NK one-shotting a dragon showed how powerful he was. But then Euron did the same thing, so if a ordinary bolt can kill a dragon, looks like the NK wasn't so special afterall.

BillyPotion 12 points13 points 8 months ago

That went out the window many seasons ago. In Mereen the rebels cause her dragons to bleed in the fighting pits using basic weapons.

NoMoreNicksLeft 11 points12 points 8 months ago

I just assumed they were juvenile. Even with making them bleed, it clearly was a losing strategy. They weren't going to kill the dragon (forget which it was in the arena).

Karmanoid 6 points7 points 8 months ago

Drogon being injured in the fighting pits is right out of the books...

Orc_Daenerys Targaryen 2 points3 points 8 months ago

Stop with this nonsense in the name of your king, the book dragons were like 100+ years old, they were the size of a fucking house

bigeyez 1 point2 points 8 months ago

They should have just had the second dragon die during the long night. Would have been more believable then what they did.

TWWfanboy 1 point2 points 8 months ago

Really the issue is that it makes zero sense for the dragons to have grown that enormous in such a relatively short amount of time. It takes crocodiles a dozen or so years to reach maturity, and those dragons are entire orders of magnitude larger than the largest reptiles alive today.

It should take decades for them to reach riding age.

FB-22 1 point2 points 8 months ago


This is big IMO. “Subverting expectations” often means abandoning or switching out plot points that the narrative has been arcing toward, and going with stuff that doesn’t make much sense given the previous seasons of building story

Eldias 1 point2 points 8 months ago

My biggest gripe with the scorpions is that they have virtually no vertical turret traverse and they're always attacked from fucking water/ground level. She was SO FUCKING CLOSE to playing the attack against the Iron Fleet right. Attack from the sun, great, and then get back up high for another attack.

Nope, just gonna cruise around directly in the area where these weapons are not only most effective but exclusively capable in.

Panenkajack 137 points138 points 8 months ago


oscarwildeafOld gods, save me 96 points97 points 8 months ago

Plus two extra dragons

Panenkajack 11 points12 points 8 months ago

That too

Flexappeal 7 points8 points 8 months ago

One dragon is apparently more effective than three dragons.

Soccerstud20 1 point2 points 8 months ago

Could have just flown drogon through the front gate apparently. Left the dothraki home and only sent the unsullied in. Who have a history of liberating cities without killing innocents.

bigsis-_- 60 points61 points 8 months ago

And Yara's fleet

Panenkajack 3 points4 points 8 months ago

I include that in “her whole army”

xeromage 4 points5 points 8 months ago

We might as well delete the Golden Company from any accounting of forces. They weren't even a speed bump.

LjSpike"Halfway up your arse" 77 points78 points 8 months ago



meanjake 17 points18 points 8 months ago

She didn’t go insane, she chose to rule by fear when she realized that the people of Westeros didn’t really give a shit about her and certainly wouldn’t “love” her like those she’d “liberated” in the past. Burning the city sends a message, shes the power in westoros and those who oppose her will be destroyed, along with their people. This is what a conqueror does.

LjSpike"Halfway up your arse" 21 points22 points 8 months ago

She razed a city without warning killing many smallfolk who hadn't actually shown any ill towards her (and didn't really show exceptional loyalty to their queen?).

If you look at the historically most successful empires in the real world you'll see a number who while they did have a fear element to their rule, were far less ruthless in the fashion Dany had. (Look at Greece, a number of the Caliphates, and I do believe Rome too) Also, she'd already demonstrated the ability to wipe out the worlds greatest naval fleet, destroy the cities defences, and the enemy army had themselves begun on mass to surrender. The city had surrendered. If she wanted to instill fear, she could've just dragon-fired the top of the red keep, also killing Cersei and her closest associates. The debris would kill some innocent bystanders but many would survive as would their homes.

Also the smallfolk of KL were already said to in a fair part of the city not really care who was on the throne.

Her razing of the city was entirely unnecessary and the fear had already been instilled to a tremendous degree. If anything her tactics are more harmful to her cause. She knows her advisors, and the north (who are already only somewhat loyal to her) would disapprove of razing KL rather unnecessarily. The smallfolk would be pretty upset about having their livelihoods destroyed. Also KL will be plagued with disease, famine and mass crime for some time I imagine. Far more than it had already. She now has to contend with that.

No. She did not choose the most effective approach. Ontop of that it contradicts at least somewhat her 'ideology' so-to-speak of smashing the wheel and ending tyranny and whatnot.

Combined, I'd say its fair to call her somewhat insane. Especially given the "mad king" was simply razing a city to greatly hamper the popularity and success and strength of opposing dynasties, possibly minimizing the damage to his own dynasty, yet he was called "the mad king".

Dynamaxion 4 points5 points 8 months ago

I can’t think of any instance in real life where a leader does it to their future capital after they’ve taken control of it though.

The moment those bells rang it’s her city, her kingdom. Burning down your own capital to instill “fear” doesn’t make sense. You can raze and sack subordinate cities/Houses that you’re pacifying, but razing the city you’re about to rule from isn’t a good move.

lynx_and_nutmeg 3 points4 points 8 months ago

She already had fear. She had already melted the gate like butter, the Unsullied and the Dothraki were epic. The Lannister army was so scared they surrendered without a fight, all the people were terrified screaming to ring the bells.

She can't even rule King's Landing now because she literally destroyed all of it. This is where most of Westeros population lived. Where is she going to reside now, to rule from?

This was not setting an example of fear. When Tywin wanted to fear him, he brutally destroyed one family. Even Cersei only destroyed the sept, not the entire city, back when she had no other option to become a queen. And Dany herself once inspired fear by making an example of crucifying the masters. But none of them just bloody massacred an entire city after they fucking surrendered. Yes, this is pretty much the definition of insanity. She can literally be queen of the ashes now.

pents1 83 points84 points 8 months ago


KhaosOvForm5Davos Seaworth 55 points56 points 8 months ago


pents1 9 points10 points 8 months ago

Yeah just like that!

ryjkyj 7 points8 points 8 months ago

Jesus, I didn’t even think of a fucking night attack...

pents1 10 points11 points 8 months ago

Drogon is even black already

KhaosOvForm5Davos Seaworth 2 points3 points 8 months ago

It could have been done! Remeber when she came back at night to Meereen?

JashanChittesh 2 points3 points 8 months ago

A night attack - without any army to make them suspect that attack - would have been the most obvious thing to do.

abbott_costello 3 points4 points 8 months ago

I don’t think she’d be able to quietly fly a dragon anywhere. They shriek and I don’t think she has the type of power over them to get them to be quiet.

pents1 5 points6 points 8 months ago

She can glide fast from above like into Eurons fleet

mc9214 5 points6 points 8 months ago

Who said anything about it being quiet? You go in at night so they can't see you, even if they can hear you, and just wipe the floor with the Red Keep before anyone elsewhere in the city even knows what's happening.

17954699 4 points5 points 8 months ago

Dany being on the Iron Throne at the start of S7 (or by E2), and struggling to assert her claim over the fueding houses of Westeros would make more sense actually.

Cersi has fled back to Casterly Rock, she still calls herself Queen, but no one other than the Westernlands believes her.

The Dothraki rape and pillage a few places, making people wary of Dany's army. She confines them to the barracks and burns the offending Khal with dragonfire, but this makes the people even more scared of her.

Jon goes South, against Sansa's wishes, to ask for aid from Dany against the NK. Dany doesn't believe him, so he says he will go and bring back a captured wight to prove it to her (it's a stupid plot line, but if they want their zombie polar bear they can have it).

Dany flies to rescue Jon and loses her dragon. However she sees the threat herself and resolves to fight it. She thinks this will get all the fueding nobles on her side, and she will be "loved" like she was in Essos.

Cersi agrees to a truce while Dany marches her army North. However Cersi betrays her and takes KL while Dany is away. There are reports that the people of KL opened the gates for Cersi, and Dany feels betrayed.

One would have to work Jaime and Littlefinger in there somewhere, but i'm sure it can be done.

king_tommy 5 points6 points 8 months ago

We go from one episode (4) learning the scorpions are perfect defense ground to air attack making the dragons useless, to the next episode (5) that it's the scorpions that are usless against dragons (especially when they are all pointed in the same direction) wtf.

ProfessorWednesday 2 points3 points 8 months ago

There is room for her insanity to have blossomed in the plot, but there wasn't a lead up to it until this last episode. It was Dany calm cool and collected until episode 5 when she wasn't wearing makeup. That's how far she's fallen, no makeup. For one day. The secrecy was probably partially to blame, with multiple directors how many of them knew they needed to have Emilia look frazzled and desperate and inching toward insanity?

TedRabbit 2 points3 points 8 months ago

Did Varys do anything useful since joining Danny? How did he not know the Lanister army was marching to high garden?

jokersleuthTHE FUCKS A LOMMY? 205 points206 points 8 months ago



Varden256 21 points22 points 8 months ago






8LACK_MAMBA 9 points10 points 8 months ago

I like it. So many versions I’ve read that are sooo much better than what Dumb and Dumber gave us.

jokersleuthTHE FUCKS A LOMMY? 4 points5 points 8 months ago

I have imagined this scenario so many times - Dany is seemingly in control until one of her dragon dies or Missandei is suddenly killed which causes her to finally break and just say fuck it.

daniejam 67 points68 points 8 months ago

NK makes it to KL. Jon defeats him in epic duel. Not before Dany has to basically sacrifice some people herself to live. Probably Jorah and grey worm

NK is defeated. Dany in shock doesn’t realise continues to burn kl for some time.

People turn against her as she burned half the city. Gets paranoid. Starts killing advisors such as Varys and barriston. In the end goes full mad queen and Jon has to off her...

[deleted] 18 points19 points 8 months ago


daniejam 16 points17 points 8 months ago

Hes still alive in book so anything can happen.

brandonh94 8 points9 points 8 months ago

Yeah right the "epic" duel between a well defined fighter of the show and the guy who runs around the snow raising his arms and occasionally throwing a spear to hit something. Totally would have been a great fight.

Dynamaxion 11 points12 points 8 months ago

“Throwing a spear to hit something” dude he laser beamed a dragon from like half a mile away.

cstrez 9 points10 points 8 months ago

NK curbstomped Theon, who’s a good fighter in comparison to the regular mooks on the show

flyflooon 703 points704 points 8 months ago


Speech500 224 points225 points 8 months ago

She started Season 7 with such a clear and obvious path to victory that they really had to twist things around to make her fail

Castriot 70 points71 points 8 months ago

I remember watching Season 6 finale and being like "they're gonna write something stupid to stretch this past 2 episodes, aren't they?"

I wanted to be wrong...

blisteringchristmas 8 points9 points 8 months ago

They should've had her take the throne in the first half of s7. Everything looks good for a little bit but she falls to insanity and infighting. It's not George's ending but you remedy the lack of Young Griff as well.

RotisserieBums 2 points3 points 8 months ago

I don't think they used the plot stretcher. More like the plot compressor.

ballpark_mustardKingslayer 3 points4 points 8 months ago

I could have seen Dany mustering her forces just outside of Dragonstone, Greyworm/the Unsullied taking that one keep, and then marching on KL and taking that loot train from High Garden.

loggedintoupvotee 463 points464 points 8 months ago


Skyclad__Observer 61 points62 points 8 months ago


Eight-Six-FourWOOF 13 points14 points 8 months ago


highordie 9 points10 points 8 months ago

it was ridiculous when it happened. that's when i decided to let go of taking this show seriously.

[deleted] 8 points9 points 8 months ago

It's the new form of jumping the shark.

CamiloArturo 5 points6 points 8 months ago

It was the most stupid part of the series indeed

Charming-Blob-FishBessie‘s tits 144 points145 points 8 months ago

not to mention how easily all her allies got destroyed

loggedintoupvotee 202 points203 points 8 months ago



themolestedsliverBOATSEXXX 1 point2 points 8 months ago

Yeah lets totally have the princess of dorne and the queen of the iron islands in the same boat during war time....logic

TheHarperValleyPTA 75 points76 points 8 months ago


bad_apiarist 9 points10 points 8 months ago

If we just explain to Cersei that we, the biggest threat to her, are vulnerable and might be destroyed, she's sure to come to our aid! What better plan could there be?

Munchiebox 4 points5 points 8 months ago

Team Rocket-esque in their determination...

--Aeo-- 2 points3 points 8 months ago

Yeah, after the dragon attack they should have used the tunnels under the red keep to attempt a rescue mission/assassination.

riorio55 105 points106 points 8 months ago


Kshaft13 68 points69 points 8 months ago


SomeGuyNamedPaul 16 points17 points 8 months ago


deuspatrimaThe true season 8 is the memes we made along the way. 5 points6 points 8 months ago


Fishingfor 4 points5 points 8 months ago



darkagl1 1 point2 points 8 months ago

I'm guessing Cersei won't even be on the throne by that point in the books, Aegon will.

OneTime_AtBandCamp 1 point2 points 8 months ago

Plus unless I'm didn't even accomplish anything lol. Cersei of course didn't help anyways.

H-K_47THE FUCKS A LOMMY 1 point2 points 8 months ago

Yeah they jumped through all those hoops to handicap her and in the end it didn't even matter. She ANNIHILATED King's Landing with just one dragon and "half" her troops. It wasn't even a fight. Losing her other two dragons, countless soldiers, and several allies due to bullshit was ultimately meaningless anyway.

KyleRaynerGotSweg 1 point2 points 8 months ago

Take King's Landing with the support of the Reach and Dorne in season 7, send ravens (or dragons) north to demand the other houses bend the knee immediately after. Season 8 becomes the North, Vale, and Riverlands working with her to defeat the NK, with the sub-plot of who should get the throne ongoing during that fight.

Yamatoman9 105 points106 points 8 months ago


-_-o_o 1 point2 points 8 months ago

Reminds me of the ending of Merlin, or Voyager, in differsame ways.

Yamatoman9 1 point2 points 8 months ago

Have the last season of Voyager take place on Earth? Even a few episodes would have been great

Platano_con_salamiJon Snow 46 points47 points 8 months ago

She's not going north in the books, I can tell you that.

WindAbsolute 63 points64 points 8 months ago

We will see. I will remember you years from now

nebula402 27 points28 points 8 months ago

!RemindMe 10 years

cantadmittoposting 1 point2 points 8 months ago

Yeah lots of people crying about plot twists that they think are stupid that will almost certainly be in the books. It's just harder to notice a lot of it in the books because of the perspective switching and uncertain timeline.

LordBillCipher696Stannis Baratheon 32 points33 points 8 months ago

Of course not. The white walkers will already get to the south and be an actual threat.

daniejam 51 points52 points 8 months ago

Book euron is 100% killing / controlling a dragon. Wall will probably fall from horn of winter or w/e it’s called

An ice dragon will kill rheagar and drogon will survive probably same as tv show

teslas_love_pigeon 17 points18 points 8 months ago

Working theory is that Victarion will do something stupid to think he has ownership of the horn (most likely some sacrifice from the red priest) but since Euron is the true master the dragon will bind to him.

[deleted] 2 points3 points 8 months ago


LgndinmysprtimeSmirking Whore from Highgarden 1 point2 points 8 months ago

It’s called Dragonbinder

darkagl1 5 points6 points 8 months ago

The thing with the books is so many of the little things they've cut out here could completely change by the time they mature. We have two magic horns to deal with. One brings down the wall and the other controls dragons. We have the Night's King and his sorceress. We have fake Aegon. We got two more Greyjoy brothers. We have Lady Stoneheart. Alot of minor things have disappeared that have made bringing this in smoothly way harder.

adkiene 6 points7 points 8 months ago

She takes the throne, then Jon convinces her to help the northerners with the Night King problem in order to bolster her popularity with the northern lords.

The same general things can still happen, but her descent into madness can occur because she becomes paranoid about Jon taking her throne with his better claim (in addition to all the other bad shit that happens to her). We can even have our "scouring of the Shire" moment with NK being killed mid-way through the last season, and our northern heroes having to solemnly go south and deal with Dany, who has started to rampage through Westeros, killing those who she mistakenly believes are siding with Jon.

Euron can be an insurgent here. He can still kill her dragon with his dark magic and actually be the badass warlock-king he's supposed to be.

Ugh. There are just so many ways this could've been written to make sense, even in a constrained time frame.

mikerichh 4 points5 points 8 months ago

Seeing the struggles of ruling a continent she has never lived in before would have been nice. Also would be interesting to see how she'd react to the army of the dead approaching from a ruler's perspective

TakeItEasyPolicy 4 points5 points 8 months ago

That'd been awesome. It would prove Dany is greatest conqueror and weakest ruler.

bradd_pit 3 points4 points 8 months ago

Exactly! Her sanity starts to unravel when she sees all the other characters having their heartfelt reunions before the battle of winterfell, and how everyone loves jon. She could have easily taken kings landing in season 7, assumed everything was good in season 8, then send everyone north to fight the night king and end up in the same place.

shicky536 21 points22 points 8 months ago

If she takes the throne so easily in season 7, how would a descent into madness make sense? She'd have what she wanted her entire life. Her descent into madness only makes sense because she's tried so hard and sacrificed so much to get the throne. She's lost her closest advisors and friends, not to mention 2 dragons, Her lover Jon Snow doesn't love her anymore, and one of her 2 remaining advisors has just plotted to have her assassinated. On top of all this, when she finally gets to attack KL, she knows the people won't welcome her like she's expected them to her entire life. Now THAT is a set up for a character about to lose her mind.

Sam474 28 points29 points 8 months ago

Because it could have been rough. She could have lost a dragon or two or three and most of her army and then found out about Jon, discovered the north wouldn't submit and had her and Jon become opponents. Maybe the flower kingdom and the sand kingdom don't submit so easy after all. Maybe the.. whatever it was called that little finger took over and lost sides with the north. With her smaller army and only one dragon she begins to become brutal. Varys still betrays her, maybe half poisons her and she becomes sickly for a while, she gets paranoid.

Ya know, slowly like a character arc in a fucking story.

[deleted] 2 points3 points 8 months ago

But they made some of the episodes 20 minutes longer, plenty of time for character arcs. /s

Haphazardly_Humble 44 points45 points 8 months ago

Or have her rule over people that didnt like outsiders. If the people of KL would have acted like the northerners did while she had her season to rule that would push her almost parallel to the Mad King. Like assasination attempts, the death of a Dragon while on the throne, general resentment of being conquered. You know, kinda like real life?

Sherko27 20 points21 points 8 months ago

So Mereen all over again?

ssovm 3 points4 points 8 months ago

That would’ve been a great story. More conniving and scheming and less fan service. Treat the throne players like they are in the books: Extremely intelligent.

hoodedenchantre 2 points3 points 8 months ago

Exactly- and then add in the drama of Jon having a bigger claim to the throne and it all falls into place.

JohnnyGuitarFNV 17 points18 points 8 months ago

Because it's one thing to take the throne, another to keep it.

Assuming she takes the throne in Episode 1 of season 7, you'd still have to first get to know the Wight threat, you'd meet a Jon who won't bend the knee to the ACTUAL queen, or you'd force him and turn the entire north against you. You'd have a destroyed Riverlands to fix, ambiguous Vale who would probably side with Sansa and the North. A power vacuum in Dorne, Westerlands, Stormlands. Would the crown inherit the debt of the Iron Bank?

Jon will eventually learn he is a Targayen probably without meeting or allying with Dany first. Word will spread more easily, now there's someone who will take her throne from her AND has the backing of the free folk, north and Vale and whatever plans Littlefinger comes up with. And on it goes.

When Varys learns Littlefinger is with Sansa and the North he would argue against trusting anything coming from the north.

hoodedenchantre 3 points4 points 8 months ago

God this sounds so amazing... and exactly like what should have happened.

nphowe 12 points13 points 8 months ago

She could win the throne and find it’s not what she dreamed about. Maybe people who she thought were loyal start plotting against her in secret while she is on the throne. Maybe her closest allies died in the struggle to capture the iron throne.

I can picture a situation where she is the queen in name only and cannot affect change because people only follow her orders once Tyrion or Jon or Sanaa has blessed them. She would become irrelevant.

Of note, Aerys began to go mad while he was on the throne. People would say that Tywin Lannister was the real power in King’s Landing and Aerys began to descend into paranoia, seeing spies everywhere even when there were none.

NCEMTP 7 points8 points 8 months ago


Takes king's Landing. Realized nobody likes her. Nobody prefers her over Cersei. THE people don't care. She tried to preach to them and make things better, but every policy or change just makes things worse.

The Night King is attacking from the North and breaks through the wall. Dany goes north with her army and he is defeated at The Eyrie after a nasty battle that leaves most northern soldiers really bad off. She learns that Jon is a Targaryen and you have the same post-battle scene where everyone loves him and pretty much ignores her. She gets more pissed. And now she's paranoid about her lover.

She heads back to King's Landing with Jon and is fucking pissed. Nobody cares she helped in the battle, nobody respects her. They don't even fear her, since she barely had to fight to dethrone Cersei.

Upon arrival in King's Landing she finds the city in chaos. The Unsullied are getting fucked up by the old Goldcloaks and everyone else because they try to enact policies to make people more free and it just totally backfired. As she's informed of this, she hears that the Golden Company just arrived in Dorne and that Sansa still has the Stark Bannermen at the ready.

She realizes that she's far from the welcomed liberator she'd thought she would be, and is hated despite trying to help the people from tyranny, themselves, or the Night King. If they can't be saved, they'll be punished. Fear will keep them in line.

She mounts up on Drogon and Jon mounts his dragon as well. He watches on, terrified, as Dany vaporizes whole districts with each strafing run. She doesn't care. She's putting down what she sees now as an insurgency.

Jon can't stop her, and soon the city is pretty much destroyed. He returns his leased dragon and heads North on horseback, conflicted, but knowing something has to be done.

On his way North, he meets the Stark army as it marched South to besiege King's Landing and reports what happened to Sansa and Arya. They already know, as Bran had foreseen it and thus the army was marching before Dany had even arrived at the city. Their conversation is cut short by s terrifying roar.

Camera pans away from the three of them. The King's Road leads straight over a hill and the smoke from King's Landing rises high on the horizon. A small black speck appears just above the ground, directly above the King's Road far in the distance. As the three stare at what they know is there, it grows larger and larger.

The Stark column scatters off of the road.


DaveDangers 5 points6 points 8 months ago

I would argue that all of those losses would be made better if she had the throne beforehand. We've already seen how she is a fantastic conqueror, but struggles to rule effectively. If she finally won the throne only for everything to start going ass-over-tits, her closest friends/confidants start dying left and right, AND Jon's lineage comes to light as a threat to her tenuous grip on power, then I believe the Mad Queen turn would've been much more earned and heartbreaking. She would've gotten the one thing she had always wanted only to have her "joy turn to ashes in her mouth" as Tyrion once threatened to Cersei.

[deleted] 4 points5 points 8 months ago

Could’ve had it so she takes the throne in season 7, loses her dragon (or maybe two!) to the night king when he comes knocking. Then, she starts to lose everyone she cares about. She’s so desperate to retain her hold on the throne she goes crazy and doesn’t protect her people like she should...something like that. A slow descent into her going for the throne but not for the people the throne comes along with. But I’m just spitballin, this could be a horrible idea

bradd_pit 5 points6 points 8 months ago

I posted this as another comment, but I'm doing it again now. Her sanity starts to unravel when she sees all the other characters having their heartfelt reunions before the battle of winterfell, and how everyone loves jon. She could have easily taken kings landing in season 7, assumed everything was good in season 8, then send everyone north to fight the night king, find out Jon is her nephew, see everyone has interpersonal relationships and everyone loves him and end up in the same place.

adkiene 4 points5 points 8 months ago

She makes a bunch of sacrifices to help the northerners. They remain fairly cold to her, but they accept her rule, at the very least.

Her losses (Missandei, her dragon(s), etc.) leave her in a vulnerable state. She returns with Jon, her lover, to take up her throne, but we begin to see some cracks.

That's when we drop the bomb that Jon is Aegon Targaryen.

You still get all the betrayal. Varys begins to work against her. The northerners begin to rumble with dissent, that Jon should be king. Euron and the Iron Islands rebel.

Dany becomes increasingly paranoid. She begins to see traitors where there are none. Maybe she takes her dragon out to "burn some traitors" in the city, but he unknowingly ignites one of those hidden Wildfire caches. King's Landing burns (you don't need to go house-by-house burning things with Drogon; fire spreads). She's responsible for thousands and thousands of deaths. More people begin to simmer with dissent. She becomes increasingly unhinged.

Jon is away trying to subdue Euron's rebellion when he hears the news. We get our sad, scouring of the Shire moment when he has to rally an army to attack Dany and bring her madness to an end.

Rat_Penat 1 point2 points 8 months ago

My idea would have been -

Tyrion convinces Dany to pull back on the bells. Bells ring, something happens, wildfire ignited. KL burns to the ground.

Dany et al look on in horror as the city ignites and thousands burn. Cersei makes an escape through the tunnel with Jamie. Arya finds them both. Kills both. Mountain appears. Beats the shit out of her. Hound jumps in last moment. Fight to the death.

Dany takes the throne. Nobody believes she didn't burn the city down. Nobody will let her rule in peace because she destroyed the city. Northern armies leave because fuck the South. North secedes under Sansa. Jon isn't involved but Dany doesn't believe him. He gets locked away.

Tyrion tries to calm her but she's getting desperate. Make a some bad calls, people hate her. Drogon gets attacked in public. Dany goes crazy trying to protect her last dragon and kills a few too many. Big riot, Dany says fuck it and puts it down dragon style. Tyrion leaves because this is too much. Treason, gets killed.

At some point during all of this Jon is released by Arya the super assassin and she tries to get him to escape. He won't leave with speaking to Dany. Dany super cray cray at this point. Boom he stabs her, Kingslayer 2 Undead Boogaloo. Jon rules but doesn't want to. Holds an election in KL. Gendry wins it.


NoMoreNicksLeft 1 point2 points 8 months ago


She's queen, but major setbacks ensue, the sort that can't be fixed with dragons. Nothing works right, the people she thought were loyal to her are more engaged in their own interests.

TheIndianUser 1 point2 points 8 months ago

She takes the throne and begins to rule. She starts to hear murmurs that the North wants independence. Jon advocates for it on Sansa behave. She hears people on the street whisper and distrust her. People praise Jon as a great leader for defeating the Night King and give Dany no credit. basically all the same things that they did in episode 4 but over the course of a full season and a bit. She gets paranoid and then some random civilian uprising (starving citizens because a storage of bread caused by her massive army) causes her to completely lose her shit. She thinks that its a plot by her enemies to steal the throne from her. That Jon and Tyrion are conspiring against her. that could cause her to decided that she's going to deal with this upraising with force. She burns the protesters with her dragons. This causes more people to protest her and then she completely breaks and burns the whole city because she decided "I saved them and they hate. I'll show them what suffering they could have faced if not for me. If they have no love for me, I'll give them fear."

TheGreatWalk 1 point2 points 8 months ago

Just have a ton of rebellions pop up everywhere and her getting more and more fed up with it and not getting respected and loved(already a theme) and then turning to fear with more and more intensity until Jon decides she needs to go. It's the same basic plot line, but done in the opposite order and has enough time to play out and not feel super forced

willmaster123 1 point2 points 8 months ago

I was thinking more that once she takes the throne, Cersei blows up the city with wildfire. Not only that, but everyone in the 7 kingdoms hates her and doesn't like her rule. A rebellion breaks out, and she realizes nobody loves her.

bell37 1 point2 points 8 months ago

The same way she got frustrated with the lack of progress in Meereen. Dany never solved the issues there and was always seen as an invader. The only reason why she didn’t go all crazy was because she left before it became a big issue.

Yrssdd50000 1 point2 points 8 months ago

She could have crossed the sea only with her dragons in season 4 or 5.

MrWheeler4520 1 point2 points 8 months ago

Or become a White Walker.

amurmann 1 point2 points 8 months ago

Or she takes the throne by the end of season 9, goes mad during season 10 and we have a conflict in 11 & 12 with the later half of 12 being a great epilogue.

Could be possible if D&D had been fired and replaced as soon as they wanted to wrap it up because they couldn't bother anymore.

TerraplexVarys Dry Heaving 155 points156 points 8 months ago


Could have been so easy for her!

_nathanielc 116 points117 points 8 months ago


Easy-Bake-Oven 18 points19 points 8 months ago

We did see three dragons sack kings landing. Jon, Dany, and Drogon!

Babladoosker 10 points11 points 8 months ago

Ehh jon didn’t really participate

richards2kreider 1 point2 points 8 months ago

Would they even need to sack king's landing? they didn't have a mass amount of scorpions at that point. Dany and her 3 dragons could've just circled KL everyday as a show of force until everyone shit themselves and surrendered.

pkfillmore 29 points30 points 8 months ago


19Nodan94 95 points96 points 8 months ago



[deleted] 9 points10 points 8 months ago

But how could you expect a peaceful ending like that, when there’s an obviously bloodthirsty, unrestrained, undisciplined general like Grey Worm running around since the very beginning??? (/s)

-_-o_o 9 points10 points 8 months ago

“Cersei is finally in my sights… Ooh look, some chilrin. Must burn.”

Cronyx 5 points6 points 8 months ago

That wouldn't end up sparing civilians. The weak would be preyed upon by the strong in a protracted siege, many would die of starvation before Cerci would give up three squares a day.

19Nodan94 5 points6 points 8 months ago

I just meant 'skip the plundering and raping once the city falls', because that's what usually happened. Of course there would be civilians suffering in every scenario, but that's the nature of war. You can try to minimize collateral damage though, assure safe conduct to soldiers etc.

cersei_botgive me my elephants 1 point2 points 8 months ago

I thought if I could make something so good, so pure, maybe I’m not a monster.

bannedSnoo 50 points51 points 8 months ago

It does make sense:



--Aeo-- 3 points4 points 8 months ago

That took a while though . When she landed at Dragonstone, her next move could have been to do what she did at Mereen. (Stand at the city walls with all her armies and try to address the common people she was trying to liberate).

Danaerys had conquered 4 cities before she reached kings landing, and with minimal bloodshed, she had more experience than anyone in her war room.

[deleted] 31 points32 points 8 months ago


5000KandlesInTheWind 34 points35 points 8 months ago

The city being a tenderbox with no fire department is a good actual reason not to, but never mattered once in the story. Taking Casterly Rock first actually wasn't a bad move. At that point Danny effectively controls the 7 kingdoms and can take the city at her leisure. And she can control the narrative while she does so. A better plan for long term peace and stability.

That plan only goes to shit when the Greyjoy fleet can teleport and the Lannister's pulled a new army out of their ass to sack Highgarden in less than a fucking day. Still not much reason to not torch the Red Keep and then go take Casterly rock though.

Cronyx 1 point2 points 8 months ago

Didn't the Lanisters have the largest private army of all the families?

5000KandlesInTheWind 8 points9 points 8 months ago

They did before all of the battles, which severely depleted their forces. Which was a point in the story until it wasn't anymore.

chasing_the_wind 2 points3 points 8 months ago

Yeah the vale and high garden should have both had a lot more troops at that point in the show.

ImaginativeLumber 2 points3 points 8 months ago

Not only would attacking King’s Landing first make more sense but it would have allowed for a fight vs the undead that truly did justice to the threat level they’d been building for 7 seasons.

I could imagine the northern forces engaging first and getting routed. Sansa and other key characters fleeing South with the undead in pursuit while Dany and Jon march north to attack. They could have shown countless small towns and kingdoms getting rolled over by the WWs. Maybe Sansa and Bran flee to the Iron Islands. Maybe some of the legit white walkers get killed but not the NK.

Then you can have the huge engagement where you sadly, but necessarily, lose some main characters. You could show the awesome destructive power of the dragons that come in and basically end the fight instantly. That way you’ve gotten to see the insane power of the undead and been terrified by it, but then get to see the dragons in all their might just combusting thousands at a time.

The ending shot is a bloodstained Jon and an utterly exhausted Dany realizing both wars are finally over, she can finally now rule, but it’s bittersweet because of what it cost them.

I’ll tell myself that’s what happened.

Dingus-ate-your-baby 3 points4 points 8 months ago

"we will take back what was stolen from me and destroy those who have wronged me. We will lay waste to armies and burn cities to the ground" - Season 2, outside of Quarth.

Now, we may have interpreted that as big talk so she could get her people out of the Red Waste, and we may have never imagined that "enemies" were women and children and "cities" would include KL but she did say it.

HolyAty 1 point2 points 8 months ago

She was always fed "The high lords and small folk are waiting for you to return" bullshit. She wanted the same thing she had in Essos, their savior rather than conqueror.

DOGSraisingCATS 1 point2 points 8 months ago

And Ned could have told Robert about Cersei and Jamie instead of going to cersei first and giving her a chance to is over halfway through season 1(you can literally do this about every damn mistake a character has made since day one...also how do we know this isn't what GRRM had planned?). Not disagreeing that the show has definitely dipped in quality but these complaints are just getting absurd and nitpicky.

flyingwolf 1 point2 points 8 months ago

Fly dragon into the city, take out Cersei in the tower.

The city falls to her, she becomes queen.

The new tower needs to be built, jobs and money into the townsfolk who will not work to rebuild the tower.

Conquering new queen brought peace, prosperity and new jobs. Yay new queen.

Or you know, burn everything cause tantrum.

Tekbepimpin 1 point2 points 8 months ago


snow-ho 1 point2 points 8 months ago

Bzzzt bzzt bzzzt

DirteDeeds 1 point2 points 8 months ago