Sunday, August 3, 2014


I thought this was an interesting recent comment:

The gravest accusation against sociopaths from the "empath-world" seems to be that "aware socios" are said to be very satisfied with their mental condition; if they could remove their psychopathy by pushing a button, they would not do so. Sick folks enjoying their disease! Isn't this somehow a little unfair: how many empaths would remove "supernatural gifts" they discovered one morning: if they could read others minds or see through walls? Most likely not many. All those movies about superheroes, what are they really about? Answer: human longing to be godlike. But socios are not allowed to have that wish. Somehow they are supposed to daydream about other things.. 

I had a little bit of a similar discussion with someone recently. Specifically, they were asking me about this statement in the book "I have chosen to call myself a sociopath because of the negative connotations of psycho in the popular culture. I may have a disorder, but I am not crazy." They assumed that I thought that being thought crazy was something that was even worse than being thought sociopath. I didn't mean that at all. Crazy is just different. In fact, in some ways, I wish that my craziness was more obvious to people in a way that psychosis often is, it would certainly help them to keep more of an open mind about me. Maybe I'm mistaken, but it seems that if I most people had a cousin with schizophrenia, they'd just be like -- oh, yeah, he has mental problems, this is not who he "really is." Or they might wonder where the line between mental disorder stops and he starts. Maybe they would think that it's impossible to tell who the cousin really is because it's impossible to filter out the disorder from the underlying person. And with someone who is obviously crazy, it seems like people pretty much credit anything that seems out of the ordinary to the mental problems instead of attributing it to a personality/character flaw. But with personality disorders, you get ascribed all of your disorder traits as being personality/character flaws (not altogether illogically, or course). If you are borderline, maybe you are a moody bitch. A narcissist = an egotistical control freak. A sociopath is a . . .  Well, especially if the sociopath was honest in sharing his or her worldview, a sociopath would be someone who is obviously delusionally obsessed with power, both in the micro and the macro, someone whose megalomania is only matched by his pettiness and self-involvement, etc. etc. That's who you are, or at least that is who people think you are. Because that's what you look like when you have this particular disorder. They don't really understand (or don't care? or don't care to make the distinction?) that those are just the symptoms of your disorder. 


  1. Because I express an interest in M.E. I am a "stalker?" How is this so?
    M.E. chose to publicise herself. When you display yourself, people's
    attention, interest, and even obsession is a price you pay.
    I actually admire M.E. VERY MUCH. The Psychopathic Bastard is the one
    who thinks he must OWN everything/one that strikes his phansy. He is
    the one who says: "If I can't have_________, nobody can."
    Many years ago there were nature preserves where one could drive
    through in the safety of your own car. As long as you followed certain
    rules. The animals roamed free. You kept your car windows rolled up
    and drove very slowly and wildlife would crawl over your car. One rule was
    "Don't agetate the animals." Keep your car windows rolled up!
    Of course these rules were broken, and there were the invariable law
    suits. These places shut down.
    The beautiful, beautiful, empath is unlike the grasping wicked sociopath.
    He doesn't have to own and posess something to enjoy it. He can be
    like the visitors to the nature preserve who followed the rules. He views
    the wild animals from a safe distance. He "loves" the animals but doesn't
    pose any threat whatsoever to them. It is the crazed sociopathic monster who harms and kills.
    If I walk through a flower bed, I only take it's pretty memory with me.
    The sociopath angarilly rips up the flower bed because he can't posess it.

    1. Who are you?

    2. For the record: i think your harmless. You have an attachment with ME because you've followed this blog for a very long time. To others it might look stalkerish, but I get the sense your not, maybe more obsessive. Which is not a BAD thing when focused directly, I sense you'd even pray for the mass murderers. I actually enjoy reading your posts. I smile at them. kinda entertaining. Its your christian kindness coming through, but can come off strong. i get you. no worries. Now get the hell off the computer and go dancing cowboy! Enjoy offline world too. :)

    3. This is utterly silly. All humans are curious in their own nature and will act in a variety of ways to understand what is the nature of things and what it is that makes them, them. Being undisturbed by your own actions, doesn't mean that you will always act in a mean way.
      Poking a stick into an anthill, in the least serves as a stimulant for the colony and thus allows for the slow progress of evolution to continue.

    4. Good points Venator. Furthermore, I can't see what's so great about the flower bed. Since the word "bed" is there it's clearly manmade, meaning a bunch of native flora and fauna were displaced to put it there. I don't see why it is more ethical to leave the flower bed intact than to tear it out. Why is it more ethical than not to observe the animals rather than eat them? Anon didn't give any rational reasons, just emotional platitudes.

  2. Good point anonymous. There is a huge difference between super hero's and super villains. The good witch and the bad witch. Title today's post Accusations... Fuckng right!

  3. The personality disorder traits are part of your personality. If the traits were medicated out somehow, there is a big part of you that would be missing. It is like saying that I want my feelings to go away. They impede my professional life. If I medicated them out, I would not be me anymore. Manic depressive sometimes do not want to be medicated. They would rather put up with the depressive episodes than not have the manic ones. Dr. G. says she has fun with her bdp. Life would be so dull if we were all reduced to the same common, "normal" denominator.

    In terms of understanding ASPD, it personally helps me to put things in perspective, and not take things as personally or emotionally as I would with someone else. I understand my sociopath friend's "limitations" or his thought process enough that I do not try to make him "feel bad" or expect him to be contrite about things he says or does. I realize it is a complete waste of time. I can show him rationally how it affects him long term either positively or negatively. He has no problems with understanding how he affects people short term. He understands that very well and has taught me a lot about human nature, including my own self. But he does not fully grasp how long an emotional wound can fester and how vengeful people can be. I am not a good example for him in the sense that I have been able to recover from his attacks, and even used them to my advantage, in the sense that I learned from the experience and I do not hold much of a grudge against him. But most people cannot and shun him after a while. They purposely and very subtly make his life more difficult than it should be. And no, he is not being paranoid, they actually do. A few people have actually told me. I am sure they do not see him as a person with ASPD, they just see him as an asshole. I never discuss his personality disorder with others, not in a direct manner and not at any great length. If anybody talks to me about him, i try to shut down the conversation relatively fast.

    There is another person in the same circle that he emotionally ruined about 3 years ago. That person is not recovering and is limping along. That person should go away and reconstruct their life elsewhere and learn from the lesson. I wish in a way that I could talk to that person and make them realize both the genius and the limitations of my sociopath friend. I believe it would help him put back the pieces of his fragmented self together. But unfortunately, I do not like or trust that person enough to make the effort or take the risk of unmasking my friend. The only thing I have done to help him is gently encourage him to seek professional psychological help. And to be honest, I am much more afraid of this emotionally wounded person than I am of my sociopath friend. The emotionally wounded person can snap any minute. The sociopath can be reasoned with.

    Understanding is a huge step towards accepting and even appreciating. Understanding is helping me appreciate my friend's positive sides and deal with the negative aspects of his personality in a way that is not destructive to me, and hopefully not destructive to the relationship. I can focus on what i know he wants from me and be receptive to what he brings to my life now.

    1. Someone who just had a "relationship" with a sociopath/psychopath sent me this website link. I, too, have been harmed by these subhumans but don't usually dwell on the topic because it's a sewer. Your posts here are a great example of what a sewer it is.

      I don't think I've ever read anything as delusional as the BS you have posted here. YOU have some serious problems.

      You talk about not taking the psychopath's abuse personally. A healthy self respect requires that a person take any attacks on themselves personally. Any time something can harm an individual, it is VERY personal. Intellectualizing away one's own self interest and safety is lack of self respect.

      Your sociopath (psychopath) "friend" does not have "limitations". He has a certain nature and it is conscienceless and predatory. He is not limited any more than a cougar is limited by not being a more evolved being like the elephant. The predator is what is and it is NOT the same creature as empathetic human beings. We are talking about different types of beings, entirely. To talk about a psychopath as though they are someone with a disability is wrong. They are DIFFERENT.

      You say you have been able to "recover from his attacks". What the fuck are you, a masochist? Wow, how impressed we should all be because you're a better target of a psychopath and even learning from being attacked and not holding a grudge! You talk like someone with battered women's syndrome. It would not surprise me if you end up getting killed by one of these freaks one day, just like the zillions of hookers who keep getting into cars with predators until they finally get the one who takes their life. No doubt they rationalized and thought they had it figured out, just like you. They didn't hold grudges, either, because they didn't have the self respect to care about being harmed.

      Then you go on to tell us about your protecting and enabling this psychopath by shutting down any conversation about what he is. Man, this speaks VOLUMES about you. Rather warn another real human about potential danger, you're all up in your weirdo co-dependent sickness with the creep. You remind me of the mothers who allow pedophile fathers to destroy their children. I think co-dependent is really inadequate. Co-perpetrator is more like it. You're a willing partner and gatekeeper of a psychopath. Maybe you're his understudy, eh, Wormwood?

      You go on to speak of your psychopath friend's victim who is "limping along" and you disparage that person with your nonsense about how this wounded individual is more a danger than the psychopath who harmed him! Stunning. You don't trust the victim but you trust the perpetrator. You obviously have an issue with human emotion in that you prefer the cold blooded predator to the vulnerable real live human. What a great partner you are for the psychopath. Enabling, protecting, running interference, and having contempt for his prey who, God forbid, might "snap" after being run over by your good buddy.

      There is NOTHING to "appreciate" about the behavior and machinations of a sociopath/psychopath. ZERO, NADA, ZIP. And, no, real human beings do not envy anything about them, be it their willingness to destroy anyone who gets in the way of what they want or their ability to con nice people in order to "win". That your own mind is so twisted that you actually think real humans could envy malevolence makes me think you may be a subhuman, yourself, but just not yet as accomplished as your "friend".

      I took the time to respond to your bullshit in the event that some poor soul who may be a victim of one of these snakes, and is confused bt encountering such evil, will see YOU and your nonsense for what it is.

    2. @Anon 8:34 PM

      Aside from the moralizing and accusations in your post, I was once that person who thought I could "deal" and "not take things personally" because i was somehow better/stronger. not so much - its like you said - intellectualizing away your own needs, feelings, and being co-dependent. the orignial poster really does speak like an abused person; like someone that a socio would have tightly wrapped around his finger.

    3. @Anon 8:45

      Not sure what you mean by moralizing but accuse I did. If you read more of the poster "OldAndWise" you'll find someone who admires and wants to hang out with psychopaths. Though some of it's language sounds like a victim of abuse, I believe it to be a psychopath, itself.

      With respect to moralizing (which really sounds like preaching) I will say that right and wrong is clear cut. Real humans may struggle to always live in line with that reality but it doesn't make it any less so. Of course the psychopaths here won't know WTF I'm talking about because they're incapable of understanding that.

      I will share with you a post made when, on a forum, we were having a discussion about the psychopaths on the global stage (the ones causing all of the wars and false flags). This cuts right to the chase on where their evil leads and how severe the damage to real humans is:

      I can tell you from personal experience that this is a big
      stumblingblock with many people. That is, this discussion of "evil".

      There are those who don't believe "evil" exists-----that all things are
      'relative'-----what may 'be' evil to one person is not so to another----
      and that both 'views' are valid. I believe this to be absolute rubbish,
      representing a lazy and cowardly thought process. Nevertheless...

      know that they have been relatively 'sheltered' from 'it', never really
      experiencing 'it' in any substantial way. They may even consider
      themselves 'blessed' in this regard.

      experienced it directly, either being a victim of 'it', or maybe just
      'witnessing' it first hand. However, what the majority of these people
      experience is just 'petty' evil------petty animosities---
      petty jealousies-----violence with petty motivations. Even some really
      horrible acts are the resutls of 'petty evil'.

      encounter of 'It', they are astonished--------'it can not be so, this
      can not possibly be'. And they are 'diminished' by the encounter. There
      is a loss of 'innocence' so profound that it seems almost irrepairable.
      long as no 'divine' intervention comes, the price of confronting 'It'
      will be paid with blood----yours----or 'Its'. It will never be placated.
      It can not be appeased. And these are the 'Powers' who rule this day.

    4. @Anon 10:57,
      "False flags", "real humans", "it", not one of those wackos who believes in reptilians are you? Or are you a 9/11 truther? Or some other flavor of conspiracy theorist? That said, at least you recognize that sociopathy is not a disability. Though attributing every destructive act at the global level to socios is overestimating our power and numbers.

      Not sure why you think O&W is a socio. I can't see how she would derive any benefit from putting on that front. If her goal was to make socios look less bad, there are much better ways of doing it since most people are going to have a negative reaction like yours to what she has said.

      Moving onto the issue of right, wrong, and evil, what are these platonic ideals that "real humans" know but "struggle to live in line with"? Sorry, but you empaths do proffer a plethora of conceptions of morality, so I want to know what version yours is and why it's not "absolute rubbish" like other people's. Here's your soapbox to expound on the one true way.

    5. I understand where you are coming from Anon. I think the misunderstanding comes from a few areas. Socio's DO fit YOUR understanding of EVIL. Which, correct me if I am wrong, is someone who can and often does whatever they want to whoever they want for no other reason than it strikes their fancy at the time. There is an implied moral contract in most societies and those who deviate have always been labeled as evil. This is not entirely unfair. For a society, regardless of size, to function it must be cooperative. Deviancy, especially from people who act only in their own interest and by appearances to the rest, (in totally random manners) is not to be tolerated. This is for the good of the whole. Demonizing the "bad actors" is historically in keeping with how society controls the rest of the group. It gives the group a scapegoat. Being able to identify the "wolves among the sheep" is important since if the dangerous individuals are not identified they cannot be rooted out, punished and held up as am example of "evil". That is why most people have an over reaction to the implied danger of the socio. However this is in fact a dangerous line of thinking. By blaming all evil on the socio you miss the fact that EVERY HUMAN is capable or horrid evil given the right circumstances. Let me give an example.

      Nazi Germany cira WWII.
      First off, Hilter was NOT a sociopath. He had really strong emotions, Most likely the syphilis had eaten holes in his brain. He was crazy, no doubt, but not a socio. Josef Mengele... oh yeah he was one of us. But most of Hitler's inner circle were not in fact socio's. They were just greedy fucks with a delusion that they were a master race. They knew the Jews had money and they were in deep recession. Solution? Vilify the Jews, take their shit, use it fund a takeover of the rest of the world. Sure there was probably a sociopath or two in the mix other than Joe, however MOST of these people, including Hitler, were NORMAL FUCKING EMPATHS. Then how about the MIllIONS of soldiers and bureaucrats, who rounded up and gassed and tortured and raped the Jews, Blacks, and Gypsies? These guys? They were just like you Anon. JUST.LIKE.YOU. Like your neighbor, your kid, your best friend. Take a minute and think about this. Hilter PERSONALLY killed how many people? But the guy in charge of the Gas Chamber, the dude JUST LIKE YOU, how many deaths is personally responsible for? People chose to accept the idea that Jew were the OTHER, EVIL, bad for society, demons, and therefore needed to be exterminated. Why? Because if you give NORMAL people a sufficient excuse and tell them they are not responsible for the outcome they will loose EVERY BIT OF THAT EMPATHY you so treasure. The will throw every moral they posses out the window and commit heinous acts. Look at history. Look at the world RIGHT THIS MINUTE. 1% of the population is NOT committing 100% of the evil or if it is. it sure the hell is not all us.

      A High functioning sociopath with a moral code is LESS likely to do this. One reason is WE ARE TOO DAMN LAZY AND IMPATIENT to pull off world domination. It has no immediate payoff. Really, we are all lazy as hell and like immediate gratification. Not features that figure highly in completing long term plans. Our entire mindset works on taking the path of least resistance in most instances. Sure, we fit your narrow definition of evil. There is REAL danger however in thinking removing us from society is the solution to eliminating evil.

      Let us look at the gas chamber operators again. Say one is a sociopath and one is Joe normal. Now both of them are gonna do their job. The sociopath is not however gonna think what he is doing is right and justified we might find it amusing or interesting and get a small thrill form that. Joe though? He is gonna ENJOY that shit. He is going to feel Morally Superior for killing those people. Which one is evil again?

    6. Here is some food for thought. Yes the first time you realize there are deviants in your world who don't feel a thing when they do evil you have a moment of absolute horror. You lose a bit of your innocence. But, and this is important, you know we are there and now have a warning system where you can avoid dealing with them for the most part. I wonder though, now that you have learned that the perfectly normal person can in the proper circumstances not just do worse evil than the sociopath but ENJOY it and rationalize it as a MORAL victory, do you find that MORE horrifying? When I do something evil at least I know it is evil. I don't get emotional satisfaction out of it. It might give me a momentary intellectual thrill. The "normal" person though who has been given societal absolution for the evil? The get enjoyment out of it. They get excited. btw Anon. They=you. Yes you personally. You want to remove me personally from society because I MIGHT cause harm. I have in my lifetime saved well over 50+ lives. I do charity work. I am making the world a better place DESPITE the fact that I get Nothing out of it emotionally. I do it because I follow my moral code. If we were both put in a position where we were released from societal consequences for causing harm to others and told to kill a stranger (like in war) I would be LESS likely than you to do it. Think on that.

    7. @Dev - I don't believe I said anything about "one true way". You're projecting (a typical sociopathic trait, btw).

      An example of what I mean about some people struggling to live within what they know is right and wrong might be lying. Most (non socios) know that lying is wrong. They'll not tell huge whopping lies but will commit what are known as "little white lies", called "white", I guess, to make them seem less harmful in the mind of the person telling them (white = pure). All lies are spiritual transgressions, though, and it's a process of spiritual evolution that causes a person to care about being consistent with stated values. Nobody's perfect and the path of refinement is not an easy one. It takes conscience and caring to become better, especially in a world that not only minimizes such matters but even mocks them. That said, a sociopath isn't going to understand this so, whatever.

      O&W admires socios/psychos and even envies them. That tells me that O&W exists somewhere within the continuum.

      @Puppy Bsaket - Good grief, Jewish cult brainwashing much? I can't even begin to address all of that without getting into a debate about WWII which is way outside of the scope of this thread and my own desire.

      I agree that non socios can engage in reprehensible behavior. Genuine non socio human beings live to regret it and are broken like Vietnam vets who lost their shit under extreme conditions and murdered innocents. They end up with PTSD, depression and addiction because they cannot cope with what happened and what they did. A sociopath would not have that problem.

      Your assumption that people who participated in the Jewish persecution scenario you laid out (the vast majority of which is fabricated bullshit) are all "empaths" is unfounded and ridiculous. I will contend that the cold "just doing my job" bureaucrat/state employee is very likely a sociopath, AS EVIDENCED BY THEIR CALLOUS BEHAVIOR - the only means by which this type of being can be judged.

      Right and wrong is a lot more than a "moral contract" that society agrees to abide by (and I would argue that "society" or, more specifically, the establishment, doesn't really give a shit about moral contracts). Being and acting good isn't something one does just because of some social mores but of something internal, as well. I won't lie to you because society says it's wrong but because I know it's wrong. It'd not just be detrimental to you but to me, as well. Depending on the nature of the lie, you are slightly or greatly harmed but I am diminished by being that liar. Again, these are probably wasted words because a sociopath cannot comprehend what I'm conveying. There are non socios reading here, though, and they will get it.

    8. Sorry did not realize I was dealing with a holocaust denier. I can pick any war as I said. The "Indian Wars" for example. Another example of one race attempting to wipe another off the face of the planet so they could take their stuff. Really? All the bureaucrats were sociopaths? Did they spontaneously become sociopaths somehow? 1%-5% of the population remember? There is no way sociopaths were somehow over represented there so that leaves 95% of the people committing heinous acts as, you guessed it, "normal people". Society is three days worth of food away from anarchy. Maybe a week. All people have the potential to do horrible evil things. The only difference is we don't feel guilt about it. Maybe if I explained why it would help.

      I will address lying first. Most of us grew up in a household where lying was rewarded and truth was punished. It is a self defense mechanism. It becomes an innate part of us. We are a lie. Because we have ceased to feel, or learned how to turn off our feelings, our reactions to life seem odd to empaths and quite frankly frightening. I was in public when I saw the plane hit the tower on 9-11. Inside my brain: "Wow cool explosion! Is that the World Trade Center? Been expecting that one for a while since our meddling in the Middle East and the previous attempts. don't_laugh_don't_laugh_don't_laugh... put on concerned face...remember you are in public.... look around and see how the other people are reacting... OK got it. This is the mask to wear here" You know why? Cause I dislike pitchforks to my face. We are mimic because you nice normal people would round us up and kill us for being different. I did not cause 9-11, I don't personally know anyone who died that day. I don;t feel bad about it. It does not effect me. But in your eyes, be honest, I am evil because I don't. I was both born this way and created. I do my best to overcome my limitations but there is just so much I can do.
      I don't judge lying as harshly as you do because I AM A LIE. I do try to be truthful as much as possible simply because it is easier than remembering or constructing lies and my mentors have challenged me to do so. The funny thing is I hate being lied to. I really really do, but I understand that some people do it because of the way they are. So I am trying to be more accepting of this character fault. I do actually agree with you that lying diminishes us which is why I am becoming more open about my condition. I really do want to see if being totally upfront with people about who I am and what I am would have as much of a detrimental effect as I have always feared it would. So far it has not.

      As I am reflecting on and taking to heart, so to speak, what you are putting forth, I do wish you would reciprocate and try to understand that much of what you call Evil can be committed by non sociopaths as well. We do not have a monopoly on evil, just as empaths do not have a monopoly on good. I do good things, I do them because they are right. I don't do it because it makes me feel good or because it makes me feel morally superior. I do it because I know what I am and I want to be something better.

    9. Good post, Puppy Basket. I'll briefly address the Nazis but only briefly because it really is outside of the scope of this thread and this site.

      Yes, I'm a Holocaust denier. Rather, I insist upon getting to truth about history. I've researched the subject extensively and while, yes, terrible things happened (as in all wars), the Holocaust story is a fabrication concocted in order to generate support for the Zionist state. I can tell you don't think that and that's fine. We'll just have to agree to disagree.

      I acknowledged that non sociopaths do bad things. I would never say they don't. I contend, however, that there are a hell of lot more people who exist in the continuum (sociopath/narcissist/anti social/whatever label) than 5%. I'd put it at at least 20%. What the percentage of Germans was who engaged in atrocious acts I do not know but I'll bet it was rather small. When someone doesn't have a gun to their head, forcing them to do those kinds of things, or they aren't under extreme duress (as with something like Vietnam), and they do what they do for a paycheck or "patriotism", I say there is a very high chance they are sociopaths. You could not get me to assist in putting anyone in a concentration camp even if you paid me ten million a year. Even some group I might not like, I wouldn't do it. That's because I have empathy for others and a conscience. If you dropped me in some jungle where people were shooting me, yes I would kill to survive. Very different scenarios.

      I'm guessing you're Jewish because you're pretty fixated on being wiped out. That comes with Jewish tribe/cult upbringing (the "everybody hates us" brainwashing). I don't want to wipe you out because you're Jewish or a sociopath, okay? I just don't want to be fucked over by anyone. I have been, btw, and none of them were Jewish, if that helps (unless we're talking the world stage and banksters but that's another subject). So, I've experienced sociopaths and narcissists first hand and it royally fucked me up. The creepy part is in saying that I'm sure there are socios reading (maybe even you) who chuckle at that.

      No, I would not judge you for not feeling badly about 9/11. There's a limit to how much one can emotionally react to, even for the most compassionate. If you told me you enjoyed hearing desperate calls from the burning buildings, that would be another thing. I would certainly think you were potentially dangerous if you got off on the suffering and fear of others. I know a lot of sociopaths do but I don't know if they all do and I don't think I could trust a sociopath to tell me because you all lie.

      Cont. because post is too long...

    10. continuing from above:

      When you say you are a lie, is that due to being a sort of empty vessel and being required to create a persona? I know you have the concern that you might not be accepted if people knew about your lack of empathy, but do you think, beyond that lacking that you have (in your opinion) a developed and unique identity, or is it all fake/manufactured?

      I think it's a VERY good idea to be open about your condition. Many people will not be put off by it and those who are are duly warned and shouldn't be interacting with you, nor you with them, unless it's very superficial. You don't like being lied to, you said so yourself. Neither does anyone else. It's the false pretenses of the sociopath that cause so much misery for the regular person. Most sociopaths want to get over on others, to con and manipulate in order to get something that their prey would not give if they knew the truth. That said, I think there are non socios who would be okay with an un-feeling socio because those people are emotionally closed or inhibited for their own reasons. I don't how much you socios differ but I know most of you enjoy screwing with people and don't care (of course) how they may be harmed. This is what makes people hate sociopaths. Understandable.

      I think my brother is sociopath (though I never knew until late in life) and his wife is a narcissist (also a socio). They have a loveless marriage but both seem perfectly content with it. The each get from each other what they want, all without any mushy stuff. That would be cool if they weren't a team fucking other people up, including their own offspring. Anyway, my point is that by up front might yield better relationship results for socios. Naturally that rules out taking advantage of someone without giving them something back that that they want. Dunno how many socios would be willing to play like that.

      I'll close with saying that what you refer to as empaths (I'm not fond of that term) also exist on a continuum. Some people feel sympathy but not all are truly empathic. These traits must also be nurtured. Self introspection is critical to that. The majority of people aren't really willing. The more one is self introspective the more one sees one's own failures and strives to improve and become more sensitive. It can be very painful and I would guess that sociopaths could never understand why one do such a thing. Most people are sheeple and most sheeple are shallow.

    11. AnonymousAug5/14@834PM,

      Thank you for taking the time to respond. You obviously care quite a bit about the person who told you about this site. I hope he or she is all right and can recover from what s/he has been or is going through.

      Please don’t take anything below as sarcastic, it is not.

      You have very good points in your post. I want to take the time to think about them before I respond. I wish you had not made the analogy to whores. In my mind, that weakens your stance, but I still will give what you said consideration before I respond. I do know people can suffer a great deal from being exposed to a sociopath, and I do not want to minimize their plight. I will respond. Give me a few days. There is a middle between being a victim of sociopaths and being in awe of them. I am neither. But sociopaths are people, even though they might not see “us” as such, and even though you might not see “them” as such. I do hope we agree on this point. (I have not read the whole thread yet, or any of your further answers, so bear with me).

      I want you to keep a few things in mind when you read my response. I don’t want to say too much about myself and the reason why I don’t must be obvious to you. But I am what people view as a successful professional women, in a very narrow high-tech field. I have always marched to my own drums, from studying in a university that only attracted 5% of women because of the subjects being covered to defending father’s rights. I am a very productive member of society. I have 4 children 2 of whom are teenagers. I am in a very loving and faithful relationship with my husband and have been for over 20 years (so yes I am old…). For the past few years, I have been supporting my family as my husband is building a business. I don’t see myself as a victim, or as a co-dependent, or a person who suffers from battered women syndrome. Perhaps you can show me wrong. I am open to ideas and suggestions. I see my life has having been relatively easy so far, especially compared to some of the people who participate on this site.

      I am not a sociopath, nor do I aspire to be one. I am quite the opposite. I am very sensitive and can be very emotional. If you also are, you know how difficult it can sometimes be. And once in a while, I wish I could shut my emotions off. Instead I have learnt to understand them, and deal with them. I have realized that the price to pay if you shut emotions off is that you become cranky, bored, unable to enjoy life much at all. You have to be able to take the bad and learn from it to appreciate the good. Yes, you can be the recipient of “attacks” from sociopaths or others, but ultimately, it is you that is choosing to make the best or the worst out of what comes your way. Not sure if that makes me a masochist in your eyes or not.

      I would like you to notice that some of the sociopaths on this site are trying to live by society's rules, though they do not have the emotional "muscle" to help them do that. They have to use their intellect to do it. Can we also use our intellect to understand them?

      Please keep reading and participating. If you could also give yourself a name, any name, that would be great.

    12. O&W, my take on you on is further refined. Manipulator, narcissist. Dishonest.

      You just previously told everyone here about being attacked by your sociopath pal and how you don't it them personally and don't hold a grudge. Now you say you're not a victim of him. If you're the object of his attacks that makes you his victim. You said you protect him by shutting people down who inquire and you disparage one of his other targets. Hence, I'm not buying your feigned concern about my friend recovering. Then you said you envy the sociopath. You're oblivious to your own bullshit.

      The way you talk about emotions smacks of someone who doesn't have any AUTHENTIC emotions, Red flag. No, I don't know how difficult it can be to have emotions nor would I wish for them to be stunted in any way. They are a positive and healthy aspect of what it is to be human. After taking some really hard hits in life I've been through not being able to cry. Not because I don't feel pain but because I had too much and got shell shocked. That's a bad place to be. Not being able to cry is like losing your sense of humor. It's a result of trauma. Overcoming trauma brings the free expression of those emotions back.

      I have no idea about what you mean when you say "emotional muscle" (whatever that is) and living by society's rules. Muscles = strength. We're talking about sociopaths, here. They don't lack emotional strength, they lack empathy and conscience. As for understanding them, I'm using all of my abilities - intelligence, emotion, intuition, common sense and whatever else enables me to get a handle on something.

      Intellect is overrated and emotions undervalued. A good balance is desirable. Reason, compassion, insight, introspection, empathy all are vital ingredients for what it means to be well rounded. That's what makes a smart person, not raw intellect.

      Since everything is subject to changing mind as I gain further insights and learn more, I'll choose an acronym based upon a guy who gives short editorials, on Russia Today, who ends every segment with "That's Just My Opinion".

      ~ TJMO


    13. @Anon August 6, 5:50

      Because of my somewhat rastafari view of the world, I do understand your point when you say that the "Powers" of the world are evil. I too think so, and I believe they will turn the world into a living hell for change in their pockets. I don't think that every political figure is bad, but I do think that the honest and good ones wil never be able to get the upper hand on the evil ones. For that reason I try to stay clear of politricks. 

      The only thing though, I would like you to reconsider your claims that all socios are evil. Yes they have the potential of being pure evil, but so does everyone. The thing is not all socios find pleasure in others pains. Believe me or don't, but do keep an open mind. I believe I am a sociopath, but I have been raised Catholic, by parents whom I have often heard others comment that they are good people. Though I don't dip my bread in every sauce the Catholic Church hands me, I do label myself as Catholic because it is the closest to my own filtered beliefs. But I do believe in God and Jesus, and I do try to live according to my faith, meaning I try to love every one I meet (in my own way) and I try to be nice to others, like I have been taught. It isn't because I feel good doing it or because I always want to do it, but because that is what I was taught is right. I am no saint, and I often find excuses or just plainly disregard my faith. I have stolen quite a few candy bars, I drink and get drunk even whil I am underage, I have gotten into fights (don't blame me, if I turn the other cheek twice and still get attacked I will retaliate whether physically, or mentally), I have cheated (mostly in class) and have lied to get myself out of trouble (never to hurt other, never to place the blame on others, I don't slander). I try to stay out of trouble, and act according to the law, except for candy, speeding, smoking, drinking, and parking. I don't hurt other intentionally or knowingly, except for the local gas station, and people for whom I can't reciprocate love. Still, does that make me a demon?

    14.  Cont'd

      I have witness a kid fall of a train platform, thank God for him it wasn't too fast. Every one around made a commotion and took out there phones and cameras. No one tried to help, even the mother just watched while screaming and crying desperately. Only one to act was yours truly, Mr Sociopath. I jumped down and pushed him back up, not because I was happy to do it, not because I cared what happened to the kid, and not for the glory or gratitude (I care about that less than the kid). I only did so because it would be a shame to die so young, and because I couldn't stand those idiot empaths hypocrisy. The mother barelty noticed me I didnt even get a word of thanks, the other fools just clapped, it got me so upset (the clapping) I had to leave the platform. Next, my neighbor's dobberman onced got out of his yard and terrorized a young couple. The boyfriends ran away leaving his girl, while she stood there paralyzed and crying (a few morz seconds she might have pissed herself). One witness, actually a pretty cool guy and a good neighbor laughed, another ran into her house. Who put himself between the beast and the lovely dame? Yours truly, Mr Sociopath. I calmed it down and dragged it back to its house (fine the girl was hot, and I wanted to show off and earn point but still). Anyways my point is, just because I don't care, or because I am not genuine, or again because I hide my true feelings and intentions (I guess that would count as not being genuine too but the backspace key is to far) doesn't make me evil. If I have chosen to live my life doing good, and helping other for their sake and not mine, since I don't give two flying shit what happens to people, I shouldn't be seen for what I think. If actions speak louder than words, they surely speak louder than a thought that doesn't make a fucking sound. Whoever said it's the thought that count was just a lazy bitch, or incompetent hoe that couldn't or wasn't willing to act as he thought he should.

    15. @Tii - You say: "I don't give two flying shit what happens to people" but you say cared enough about the kid who fell on the tracks to risk your life to save his. You didn't risk your life for the thrill and didn't wait to see him get killed so you could laugh - those things sounding more sociopathic to me. Dunno. You don't much sound like a sociopath.

      Other posters (socios) here have mentioned doing things for others not because it makes them feel good but because it's the right thing to do, as though non socios do for others for some feel good payoff. I've done lots for others and can't say it made me feel good, at all. I'm motivated by empathy and knowing the other needs help. Often in situations where I've helped it's caused me anxiety and worry. IOW, I didn't "feel good". You put aside thoughts of yourself to help someone else because you identify with their pain or dilemma.

      I wouldn't judge the people around the platform for not being the ones to rescue the kid. Did it ever occur to you that they were simply paralyzed with fear? Same for the deal with the dobbie. Lots of people are just scared of dogs.

    16. Sorry, that was I (TJMO) above.

    17. No thrill didn't really come to mind. It was more the mothers shrieking, the fact that I felt it could be my good deed for the day, and because I have once heard my catechism teacher mention that if you give your life for another you get straight access to heaven (no sure if it's true, but considering the life of Jesus it seems like it could be). Plus, I had to meet my friends at the beach that day, and if a kid's face was splattered all over the metro station guess who wouldn't be puffing with his friends that day.

      Anyways, it just doesn't seem cool to die so young, you barely get a chance to figure out your views. Plus whether or not I care what happens to people, as a Christian I do believe life is precious, and I do my best to have people realize that if I can. While you're governed by empathy I'm governed by religion. There are a lots of times where I act (or don't act) because that is what a Christian should do at that moment. If I wasn't raised as I was, or if I didn't respect my parents as authority figures who knows how I would be. Maybe I am, maybe I am not, but when I talk truthfully to people with a bit of knowledge on the subject that is what they call me. Plus many of my traits are similar to those of a sociopath (pretty much all except violent, I feel I have good self control).

      PS. The paralysis wasn't strong enough to stop them from reaching for there phones and cameras

    18. Okay, Tii, so your guidance on how to be comes from an external source rather than an internal one. Funny because I just had a conversation about with a friend who had been involved with a socio who is a southern bible thumper (but a hypocrite). All of my sense of right and wrong and what is good is internal. I don't need any outside source to guide my actions. So, that's a big difference. My sociopath brother and his narcissist/socio wife attend mass, go to confession, etc, and I find it a sickening fraud. Then again, I find organized religion to be a fraud. If it helps to prevent a sociopath from doing harm, though, I guess whatever works. For the most part, I don't think it does. It just serves as cover for a lot nasty people. Go to church on Sunday and then support bombing innocent people half way around the world. Act all pious and support an abusive and murderous police state. That would apply to socio and non socio (not "empaths") both.

      ~ TJMO

    19. Funny enough, considering how I am, the one thing I hate the most is hypocrisy. I can't stand stand someone who says one thing and does another, or someone who is nice to a friend when they are present but speaks ill of them when they aren't. So even though my thoughts might not be the same as my words or my actions, I do my best to at least act the way I speak. I do hope for a better world with true justice and equality, one where there would be no judging of others. I feel like a world like that would be a lot more peaceful for me (and of course everyone else). I wouldn't have to pretend or try to hide who I am. So I try my best to do good and show people good acts. I think that walking and guiding someone down a path, is better then just giving them directions and sending them off. While they might forget your directions, they won't get lost if you show them the way. Many people call me a hypocrite when I tell them how I truly think or feel, because it doesn't align with my words or my action, or because I don't do good for the sake of others but, because I want to buy my way into heaven. But the way I see it Christianity is about sacrifice, so if I put my own thoughts and wants aside to follow a path that leads me to God (even if I only take it so that I don't end up in Hell), my actions should count more than my thoughts. A pedophile might be regarded as sick, and disturbed in our society but, if he resists all his urges and lies about his preferences because that is the "right" thing, shouldn't he be seen for what he does and not what he thinks?

      Yes, I too believe that organized religion is a fraud, the Catholic Church is full of liars, thieves, money hungry people, who join the Church for ulterior motives. As a kid, my grandfather and stepfather told me repeatedly that there are many mafias within the Church, but that it wasn't every member and that the majority of their teachings are good except for the ones where they seem to have twisted the Bible's words or meanings. For that reason, I read the Bible myself and interpret it in my way, very often the priest at my church explains it the same way, so that tells me that they aren't completely tainted.

      Now, moving on from all the Jesus talk. You said you deny the holocaust, that's fine but, what do you think about slavery and the KKK. Do you think that all slave owners were sociopaths. They didn't regard colored people as humans, they traded them, beat them, and forced them to work in horrible conditions. Would you call all those white people who owned slaves in the US, in Latin America, and in the Caribbeans sociopaths? They sure didn't mind the way they treated those people. How about the KKK, that killed, lynched, and oppressed the blacks, homosexuals, foreigners, and anyone different because they felt superior? Would you say that they were all sociopaths? If so, I would like to point out that those actions were committed against specific groups and not everyone, within their white entourage they seemed pretty lovable and loving.

    20. Anon,
      You crack me up. Do you get mad that I asked if you're a wacko conspiracy theorist? No. You get bent out of shape over a throwaway snide remark about your black and white moral thinking. Then it comes out that actually you are a holocaust denying conspiracy theorist. Now you're sure O&W is a narc, even though all you have to go on is some anonymous text.

      Seeing a mental health professional might be a good idea. I would be feeling pain and sadness that you appear so paranoid and delusional (not being insulting or facetious), if my empathy chip wasn't broken. Since it is, this thread just makes me laugh uncontrollably.

    21. By the way... If O&W is a narcissist, she is doing the worst job she possibly could be doing, and is definitely in the worst place she could be to pick up people to expect praise from.

    22. Yeah, this is a terrible board if you're looking for narcissistic supply. A bunch of socios that can't get anything out of you, so they have no reason to stroke your ego.

    23. TJMO, good name, and welcome to the site. I hope you stay on. You have things to say.

      You are very eloquent, but somehow having read all the replies here, yours and others, I am thoroughly confused about what you point was or is. I made you angry, and possibly confused also, but I am still not sure how or why.

      There are some things you said that I can really relate to and agree with and others that make me want to completely ignore you. What I really liked in particular is what you said at 1:11PM today. I could have said it myself, had I had the words. One of the things that makes me want to ignore you is that you are a holocaust denier. Also, I would like you to answer the questions that Tii posed at 2:17PM (about kkk, slaves, homosexuals, oppressed people in general).

      It does not matter whether I am a sociopath, or a whore, or a narcissist, or suffering from battered women syndrome. Not sure what else you called me. I was an enabler in connecting you to sociopaths, and I believe you are rising to the challenge, and already getting to understand them better than what society at large will allow you. Again, please stay on, and refine your opinion about high functioning sociopaths and the people who have come to understand them. (And yes, Tii is a very high functioning sociopath, isn’t he great? Please read his piece about how to seduce and screw with a psychologist, it is text book…)

      I will re-phrase why I am here on this site in other words: we cannot eradicate the sociopaths from earth, nor should we want to. As much as “they” might resent me saying this, and as much as “normal people” might resent me for saying it, they have something to bring to society. They need to play by our rules to not be ostracized, though. Some of them have caught on, obviously, as you have just witnessed. I personally want to find out how much they can bring, should we allow them to be a valued member of society without shaming/rejecting them (or attempting to shame them, I should say :-) They can certainly poke at an ant hill. Who mentioned this? Was it you, Basket of Puppies?

    24. Awww shucks you're too much. ^/////^ You're too much... You make me blush....

    25. O&W, you're far more patient and accepting than I. I don't think debating ethics with a holocaust denier while maintaining a straight face is possible for me.

    26. Tii, are you sure you're a sociopath and not an Aspie? Sociopaths enjoy causing other people pain, taking advantage of them, playing mind games and they are liars. You seem to be opposed to these things (unless you're lying, lol).

      The whole slave thing is a huge subject. A general discussion or history forum is the place to get into that. Briefly, though, no I don't think everyone who owned slaves (or had indentured workers) were sociopaths. In the US south, only wealthy landowners could afford slaves. Not that many (percentage-wise) owned slaves. Unfortunately, slavery was an accepted practice back in the past. I believe that without the civil war it would have died out as people's consciousness evolved. When people are conditioned to something and it's socially acceptable, they often don't question it. I'm a vegetarian and appalled at people eating meat but I know that people are conditioned to do so. Many humans live in a state of cognitive dissonance, too (bad). The KKK who terrorized and murdered people is another matter and, yes, I would say people who do stuff like that are socio/psychopaths.

      O&W, I did not call you a whore. I said your lack of self respect and dallying with sociopaths could lead to getting killed, like hookers (lowest self respect) who keep getting into cars with bad men until they meet up with one who murders them.

      You didn't make me angry. I was appalled by the BS you were spewing. Non sociopaths, specifically those who have been harmed by them, read here (I saw some of their posts) and if someone impressionable or confused read the baloney you wrote it could be detrimental. I was setting the record straight for those readers.

      Dev, you are clearly a low functioning sociopath AND low intelligence so not worth any more bandwidth.

      ~ TJMO

    27. O&W, I mean to ask you...

      You said:


      What might sociopaths/psychopaths "bring to society" and why are you their advocate?

      ~ TJMO

    28. wow.. this is very fascinating.
      socio vs non-socio.. and possibly socio-wannabe.
      TJMO, please email me @ this is my temporary email to receive your email, and i'll reply to you with my real one.
      i am very fascinated with your expressions
      how you are able to convey a feeling through your sentences
      it's almost like i can feel your emotions coming alive from mere text!

      i want to share with you so that i can maybe help you understand the minds of a socio.

      the emotional muscle that O&W was talking about is emotional reward system from doing something right.
      but socios only perform rightful task to move on with life.
      it could be a job or an organization, where they require certain task so you can move on up.
      idk if Tii is a socio or not. but if he is, Tii were calm under pressure of seeing a child fall to the train track and decided to do what's right instead of panicking or possibly taking out a cellphone and start recording the after-effect.
      so even though Tii seems more like an aspie, he is what you can say a 'good' sociopath.
      there are both benefits of being a socio and non-socio.

      socio can choose to do right more easily when he is under the pressure that would naturally make him not want to do what's right. because they are more capable of thinking rationally.

      rather, non-socio are compelled to do what's right, such as helping a helpless man or being less evil.

      socios can perform righteousness when learned, intellectually,
      where non-socios could have harder time even knowing it's right, the emotion will hold them back from acting right.
      i.e. breaking up with bad boyfriend or not cheating on your mate and such.

      and of course, vice versa.

      so there's no superiority between socio and non-socio,

      there's high-performing socio
      which are usually self-aware that they are and they know what's right and wrong. and of course capable of messing with human emotions but usually choose not to.
      and there's high-performing non-socio
      who's aware of what sociopaths are capable of and not only intellectual but also capable of being able to 'control' their emotions so it doesn't go out of hand but freely expressing them also.
      which i think, is you.

      this is the field i study and you being highly aware of sociopath can be a help to further my research and statistics i'm building.

      since you claim to be non-socio, i want to ask you personally what you think about each scenario sociopath would do and say.

      and i also want to help you understand that not all socios are bad. there are just bad and good people in all race and all kinds of mental health.

      so debating on which is bad is vanity.


    29. if you don't mind me contributing to your question,
      despite some sociopath/psychopath being a serial killer and so forth,

      there are many socios that are able to perform dangerous task at a high pressure.
      it is known that among brain-surgeons, firefighters, lawyers, etc.
      are common occupations to find many sociopaths.

      they might not be the best people to gossip with, but they might be the best people to ask advice when going through great emotional distress.


    30. No, I don not enjoy causing people pain, I simply don't care whether or not they are in pain. As for the rest, it's not that I don't enjoy it, going in someone's head, playing mind games, and trying to figure how they work comes with some sort of thrill. It's almost like playing a chest game except that every boars has a different set of rules which you have to figure out before you can really start playing to win. I have done it in the past, when I was younger and had yet to figure out I wzs different. But, now I have DECIDED (being the key word) to not do those things. And I'm pretty good at restraining myself, but if someone persists on making an enemy out of me multiple times, I won't have to think twice before fighting back (emotionaly, mentally, or otherwise). Regarding lying, maybe no one lies all the time, but every body lies sometimes, and everyone who says otherwise is a liar. Hypocrites piss me off the most because I see them as coward who can't even realize that they are. If I don't like someone (which would take a lot considering that I'm very friendly in public, and try to not make enemies since friends, people, are the most valuable asset), I will tell them that I don't like them. Not sing to them when the are around and shit on the car and porch when they aren't looking.

      Conclusion, some sociopaths have DECIDED to act according to societies definition of good.

    31. "...low functioning sociopath AND low intelligence...", feeling a little butthurt? TJMO, you need to realize if you went to a normal board with nice, normal non-socios you would get a much nastier reception than I've given you. Nice, normal people don't appreciate random people jumping onto their board and calling other members battered women, then implying said woman has no conscience, referring to people as "it", and spouting a bunch of anti-semitism. If that's how you talk in face to face interactions, the only reason you haven't had your nose broken is because people are too shocked and have manners. Or you're a woman, so they just privately think you're a loon.

      You keep bringing up "hookers". Why do you think they have no self-respect? Have you met every sex worker in the world in order to verify? Why do you think that the cause of their troubles is due to a moral failing, and not social and economic circumstances? What about people that were kidnapped by traffickers and forced to be sex workers, are they also lacking in self-respect?

      Regarding vegetarianism, why do you feel you are on sufficiently high moral ground to be "horrified" at those who eat meat? You know cows have to be bred to produce milk and half those calves are male. All those bull calves turn into veal. All those male chicks die too, so that vegetarians can eat eggs. If you said you were vegan you would have a moral leg to stand on. This kind of simplistic ethical framework is why I made a snide comment about your black and white thinking.

    32. Juice - "eyesomeshoe"? What are you, a foot freak?

      Hell, no, I'm not going to email you. I'm afraid you'll have to do your "research" right here.

      ~ TJMO

    33. Dev said: Blah blah blah ... nice normal people ... blah blah blah ... anti semitism ... blah blah blah

      nigga please

      You're a psychopath. You wouldn't know "nice" and "normal" if you fell over it, you dumbass.

      Arabs are semites. I have nothing against Arabs. It's international Jewry I have no use for.


    34. If psychopaths didn't know what nice, and normal looked like they wouldn't be able to fleece stupid empaths like yourself and your friend.

    35. Ooooooohhh... That's a fight on ly block XD. And it's nigger** please to you, nigga is acceptable once you've established a certain level of friendship (my rules). But, yah I have to agree with Dev here. If we didn't know what nice was, it would be impossible for us to fool anyone. It's not that we don't know, it's that we generally have no use for it.

    36. Tii, sure I made you blush... You realized I only like you because you are a half breed, right?
      Est-ce que c’est ta maman qui est Française ou ton Papa?

    37. Dev, yes I am in two minds about conversing with a holocaust denier. BTW, I cannot believe you guys discovered that fact this easily just from reading a couple of her posts! Amazing! Well, creepy, really. But tjmo does have good points. What she said about the intellect being overrated really resonates with me: “Intellect is overrated and emotions undervalued. A good balance is desirable. Reason, compassion, insight, introspection, empathy all are vital ingredients for what it means to be well rounded. That's what makes a smart person, not raw intellect.”. Perhaps not something you will agree with. I think one needs to be an emotionally mature person to fully understand it (sorry).

      When my sociopath “friend” took me through hell, I had to be very mindful not to lose those very emotions TJMO is speaking of. This was probably one of the most difficult parts about it. I just wanted to shut everything off. It might have been easier. Another difficult part was being made to face my own frailties, insecurities, weaknesses, and all(?) the ugly parts of myself. TJMO talked about the topic of sociopaths being a sewer in her very first post: “I, too, have been harmed by these subhumans but don't usually dwell on the topic because it's a sewer.” She is right about it being a sewer, but at least half of the shit that is floating around in that sewer is our very own (i.e. the ugly parts of myself). And we do not like it. We’d rather run away than attempt to face it. My life circumstances did not allow me to run away, and I did not want to allow myself to be a victim. So here I am now. But being lead to hell and having to fight my way back out pretty much by myself (although supported by my loved ones who did not really know what was happening - nor did I in fact, at the time) resulted in me being a more confident person, who is better equipped to take care of herself, her family and her friends, and who has learned to enjoy life better, emotions and all. I very much like would like for other “empaths” to understand more about sociopathy BEFORE they are faced with it. That is in my mind one of the reasons why it is important that people get more awareness of this personality disorder.

    38. JUICE, thank you for filling in the blanks. This is exactly what I meant when I said that sociopaths do not have the emotional "muscle" to help them live by society’s rules: I did mean they do not have the emotional reward system from doing something right, nor the emotional deterrent from doing something wrong, to guide them through life and society the way “empaths” are being guided.

    39. Ah is that google translate or do you actually speak french? Et c'est ma mère qui est Francaise.

    40. oh well. i guess i'll have to do my research here. but i'm really curious what are the obvious differences between sociopath/psychopath and non-sociopath/non-psychopath.
      and we can not debate on who's bad
      i mean more on a practical level that we go through on a daily basis.

      @O&W, yes socios are good, rather too good at showing other's flaws.
      many normal people are busy defending themselves, and focusing on themselves, but sociopath are a constant observer, they were raised to watch how people act and react. so it is easier for socios to see through the flaws of one. and they are not scared to be attacked. either they will easily admit it, or fully defend themselves until they can prove you wrong.
      sociopath don't recognize how much someone can be emotionally drained when they are faced with their own crap.
      two of my closest friends wanted to "hurt my feelings" one day, so they decided to say the most 'terrible things' they could think of. and of course i knew their intention, and it was just silly.
      at first it was funny, but they kept going so i eventually got tired of it, so i picked on their shortcomings and flaws, the game was over, it resulted in severe damage on their part.
      yes, til this day, i get a 'kick' out of torturing animals or large insects, or even reptiles.
      but i don't do that to human.

      sometimes i think psychopathy is a disease,
      i feel like they want you to be callous to emotions like they are.

      and the biggest question is this. it seems as though most men admire 'psychopathic' quality. when i tell my friends about my callousness, they try to 'out-do' me by saying how they can be insensitive,,, like it's some sort of competition or something... and it always frustrates me to even figure out myself. almost making me believe i'm normal...

      please help me out


    41. Because I'm a half-breed? So if I was full French, or full Haitian... you wouldn't like me? Ahhh... not really sure how I feel about that, I don't really like racism (?). Nah, jk jk.

    42. Juice,
      Now that you've mentioned it I do notice it in myself. Very often when my friends come to me because someone hurt their feelings, or come to tell me about how I hurt their feelings when I mention something about their personality, one of the first things I tell them to do is to forget it. They'll tell me about it and I'll respond with something along the lines of "Don"t let it get to you, let it slife of your back. That's the way you are and the way it is. If others don't appreciate it or don't understand it, forget about what they have to say. If you feel the same way change it, and prove them wrong. Sulking, and feeling embarassed about it is just admitting and agreeing that you have a flaw that makes them less then you." That's actually my thought process when someone tells me I have a flaw. I will admit that it's part of my personality but, it sire as hell isn't a flaw, and I can/will give at least ten reasons why it isn't a flaw to anyone who thinks otherwise, whether or not they agree, I couldn't care less.

    43. TJMO, you have been very accusatory towards me over the last few days, so I would like to respond one more time, in the hope that you can understand where I am coming from. You also seem to have come around a bit since your first post, which was very nice to witness. You now look to be more receptive to the ones you called subhumans, than towards me. Sounds familiar? This is fine with me.

      I know my position is unorthodox to say the least. So here are some of my unedited thoughts in no particular order...

      I believe you will understand I am not able to speak much at all to others around me about my “friend”’s personality disorder. However, I do not necessarily take his side when people come to me and to vent about his bad behavior. Nor do I expose him as a sociopath. I cannot say to them “don’t take it personally, he is a sociopath”. If I were to say that, people would not understand it the same way I now do, and I would be ostracized in no time for slandering him that way. Most people have the same reaction you have when they hear the term of sociopathy. Calling somebody a sociopath is an insult. Actually to most people, it still appears to be some kind of a misunderstood myth. It is seen on TV and in movies, but not in real life. It is indeed too much of a paradigm shift to fully grasp the concept if you have not been exposed to it first hand. I believe you are part way towards understanding it yourself. To the people that come to me complaining about my friend, i have said thing like “yes, he is an asshole, a special kind of asshole” or “I know he is different, he is likeable enough, though”, or “you and I have to be careful, he is an expert at creating fights between people” – and he truly is.

      I am trying to educate the people around me but it is a tall order as you can see, and i am not sure i am up to the task. I think what shocked you most in my first post was the fact that I took the sociopath’s side as opposed to helping the “normal” person. I understand your reaction. You have not made the effort or you have not had the chance (so to speak) to be close enough to a sociopath to understand yet. They are sub-humans to you. It is “them” and it is “us”. Not to me. To me, both the sociopath and the normal person are equal human beings. In this particular case, I happen to like the sociopath better than the normal person he wounded.

      I am unable to educate or help the person I spoke of who is 'limping along" after being ruined by the sociopath I know. The subject is too explosive to him. When I said I was afraid of him, I actually truly am. We were not friends before the sociopath came along. And we are not friends now, though I do try to help him as much as I can (which he resents) because I think it is the right thing to do, since I have been through hell myself, and I am well placed to understand his plight. But it is not my priority to take care of this emotionally wounded man who pretty much despises me for trying to help. My heart is big enough, but not that big. Sorry.

      When I speak of hell, I imagine that what I went through was probably similar to being psychoanalyzed, but it was not my choice, and there was nothing gentle or caring about it. I was deconstructed to the point that only my core was able to stand. Thank god it was not too weak. I have had the privilege to be raised by very loving and caring parents. They protected my sensitivity and my innocence, and being exposed to this man who took an interest in me was like running into a brick wall. Repeatedly. Or being run by a freight train, to use the expression somebody else used on this site.

    44. I am also trying to “mentor” my sociopath friend, and make him realize how his behavior affects him in the long run. It would be a waste of time for me to try to appeal to his heart and try to get him to be compassionate towards the people that he hurts. I think you realize that. My goal is for him to understand how he would benefit from changing his ways. I do not expect to change his character, nor do I want to. But i believe he can come to think like Basket of Puppies, Tii and others have described here. I was well on his way when I met him, but I am sure he can go even further. To use the analogy given by anonymous Aug 4 @ 12:02PM, I am facing the hunter, and leaving the mother bear mostly alone. I am trying to make the hunter realize that wounded mother bears can be dangerous, so that he leaves them alone in the future. BTW, was this your friend who wrote this?

      I very much doubt I would like hanging out with sociopaths. I have never tried before, except on this site. I imagine it would be too frigg’n hard. I do like my “friend” though, not because he is a sociopath, but because he is him. As I said before, his sociopathy is a very integral part of who he is but there is much more to him than his sociopathy. He is fun and funny. He has a great sense of humour and is very witty and gritty. He is energetic, and always wants to learn. He is also very smart in that purely intellectual way. He is definitely not lazy, which does not match up with what most people say on this site, but again, this is him, a real human being with his own personality. He makes me laugh all the time and is a stress reliever to me. He also challenges me in ways other people have not. He gives me energy. Does this make me co-dependent? I honestly do not know. What I realize is that he could be gone from my life in a snap. Would I miss him? I am pretty sure I would. Would he miss me? Not a chance. I know I am replaceable to him. He is a human being to me, though I am not to him. I cannot afford to trust him the way I trust other friends. This is where it is completely different from other relationships, and why I have a tough time calling it a friendship. I trust him for what he is now to me, but expect nothing of the future. Will I get hurt? I might. But in all friendships, you take a chance. This is obviously stretching it to the max, there is no safety net, there is no emotional connection. That is why it is necessary for me to focus on the now. To use another analogy, he has a bank account with me, but I have not been willing or able to give him a line of credit, not even overdraft protection. This is the way I protect myself. I find it unfortunately necessary. This perhaps explains why I said in other posts that I feel he has given me more than I have given him.

      When I say I do not take things personally, this is not because I do not have self respect, quite the opposite I believe. This is because I know he cannot like me the same way other people can and the same way I can. And it is not personal. I am likeable, but not by him. It is not me, it is him. He is UNABLE to reciprocate feelings the way neuro typicals normally do. This is what your friend has to understand with her guts if she wants to recover. It is not that she cannot be liked or loved, just that he cannot like and love her the way we neuro-typicals are used to.

    45. Tjmo, I would also like to suggest that you and your friend look for and read some of macchiavellianempath's posts on this site. Mach is a survivor of a romantic relationship with a sociopath. She is now a mother of a large(?) family, and I bet she could give advice to your friend. She is much more likeable than I am. She has a much more gentle way of telling people to "grow a pair". Amazingly, Mach is one of the few that does not regret having been through hell, though it almost destroyed her. She was able to turn the experience into something positive that did not sour her. I am assuming her hell was a lot more difficult than mine ever was. The relationship I have with the sociopath in my life is not romantic and it is not my primary relationship. Hers was, I believe. Mach has not been on as often as usual lately, but watch for her over the next few days or so. I hope I am not putting words in her mouth. But in any case, read her posts, it will help you and your friend.

      I am hoping you will keep participating. Though you first join this board to denigrate the participants, I think you have realized that each of us may actually have good points, and are able to help in our own way, not by treating you or your friend like victims, but by helping you understand "the other side".

    46. Tii, non ce n'est pas google translate, c'est moi. Je suis bilingue. Parles-tu aussi le créole?
      Tu dis souvent que tu es paresseux.. Ce n'est pas du tout l'impression que tu me donnes. Une question qui me turlupine depuis un moment. Etais-ce toi qui s'appelais 18 year old , soon to be etc? Vous avez tous les 2 un peu le même "vibe", si je me souvient bien de lui.

    47. Ah pas mal, j'aurais même l'impression que tu te débrouilles mieux que moi en français. Oui, je parle aussi le créole, malgré que je ne l'utilise pas trop souvent. À propos de 18, non ce n'était pas moi. J'ai découvert ce site il n'y a pas trop longtemps (un ou deux mois), j'ai passé un moment a lire sans écrire, et cela ne fait que quelques semaines depuis que j'ai commenté pour la première fois avec le pseudonyme Tii. Et oui, ma paresse est assez originale, je voudrais bien passé mon temps a ne rien faire (dans une prairie ou sur un lit) mais la vie ne le permet pas vraiment. Alors, bien que je sois plutôt actif, j'ai tendance à faire tout avec médiocrité et le moins d'énergie. D'une façon ou d'une autre, les choses finissent quand même mieux que la moyenne (chanceux ou naturellement bon a tout XD ). Pour ajouter, je passe beaucoup de mon temps, pendant la journée, a essayé de dormir (peut être parce que j'ai complètement déboussolé mon horloge biologique). tous cas l'une de mes "fautes" est d'être paresseux d'après ce qu'on me dit.

    48. @ O&W 9:24,
      That's about the only point TJMO made that I agree with. If you're a human who came equipped with empathy and a normal emotional depth and range, it behooves you to accept, understand, and exercise those abilities. If you don't, unresolved issues and cognitive dissonance will start festering until you're at the point you're bleeding out into the water and calling the sharks in. Raw intellect isn't superior to well-balanced intellect and emotion, it's just different. Raw emotion and rejection of intellect is just as bad as rejecting your emotions in favor of intellect. The two need to work synergistically.

      For the sake of brevity and readability, I'm going to assume TJMO is a woman. She is obviously experiencing a lot of emotional distress, and consequently neither her emotional nor intellectual faculties are performing well no matter how much she tries to hide it from herself and others. Intellect is only being used to give a veneer of rationality and respectability to her rampant emotionality, and attempt to assuage the cognitive dissonance. It's not wrong or weak to have emotions, but you do need to use your intellect as a sanity check. People that allow their entire moral framework to be dictated by what they're feeling, coming entirely from the inside as it were, are very easy to manipulate and victimize. This is likely part of the reason she got picked as socio chow.

      There's also a lot of guilt oozing out of her posts. She says she doesn't feel good doing good things for others, she feels bad during the act and helps in order to feel less bad. That'll really ring the dinner bell. She hates sex workers because they "lack self-respect" and consequently get victimized. This sounds like she feels guilty she allowed herself to be victimized, and is redirecting those feelings of guilt and self-hatred onto others. This might be the root of the jew-hating too. She doesn't want to admit to herself that empathy capable people aren't always nice, so if something bad happens then either the victims were bad people who deserved it, or it was carried out by sub-human sociopaths. She "admits" that sometimes empathic people do less than good things, but she doesn't believe this deep down that is just her intellect talking. If she actually accepted the existence of moral shades of gray she wouldn't be appalled that most people eat meat.

      Instead of avoiding "dwelling" on the "sewer", she needs to accept and own her shit. Until she does, she will continue to thrash and bleed prompting another predator attack.

      I said, not very nicely, that she should consider seeing a shrink. That's a serious statement. Aside from the emotional turmoil and cognitive dissonance, something else appears to be going on. There is an odd, disjointed quality to her posts and she makes a lot of strange word choices. Initially, I wondered if she was another socio posing as a loony Lovefraud member. Now, I'm not inclined to think that's the case. She didn't respond to hostility like a trolling socio normally would, but like an empath eyeball deep in denial. The shrink would be a better option than waiting for another socio to force her to come to terms with herself. Not all predators are merely psychologically abusive.

    49. Could be but there's one thing I think you got wrong. I don't think TJMO hates sex workers, but I do think that she looks down on them for their choice of career. S/he immediately seemed to think that all of them are there by choice and not circumstances. But even if they are there by choice, who is to judge how much self respect they have. Self respect depends on someone's thought process not actions. Saying that someone has no self respect because she is a sex worker only means that the person believes that s/he him/herself would only become a sex worker if she had no self respect. The sex worker might have a different view on the subject and might think of it as owning his/her sexuality, and body because s/he is full of self respect and won't let others decide how s/he will behave and use his/her own body. It's similar to someone thinking that a sociopath has no pride because of the way s/he behaves and because of the way negative or hurtful outcomes will not stop them from repeating the same thing (Many people have told me that I have no pride. And I've heard many say that sociopaths have no pride.) On the contrary it's not that the sociopath has no pride, in fact a sociopath is oozing with pride, it's more like they have no shame. Pride and shame are not the same thing, the same way as self respect and society's notion of what is respectful is not the same thing. Not sure if I put out my thoughts properly, sorta find it hard to put in words.

    50. The reason I think she hates sex workers rather than merely looking down on them is the vitriol seeping out of her statements about them. Plus, equating O&W's level of morality and self-respect with a "hooker". There was a lot more venom in that attack than there was in her stating PB must be a Jew if she believed in the holocaust. The Jew-hatred doesn't appear to have as much emotional gravity to her. It could even be there is no relation between her emotional wounds and Jew-hatred, she might just be a wacky conspiracy theorist. Attributing that to her emotional problems is where I think my analysis could be wrong. And yes, granted the "hooker" insult was in the context of a more emotionally charged argument than the holocaust denying, but the vitriol was still excessive for the situation. In the no logical support category, my predatory intuition says that's the spot to go for.

      You put it into words just fine. Judging people as individuals based on their internal qualities, rather than judging entire groups of people based on inconsequential external attributes was exactly the point I was trying to make to her when I asked her why she had the moral high ground. She is making judgements because that's what her emotions are dictating without pausing to intellectually evaluate whether that's actually an ethical or rational decision. She clearly feels lots of empathy, but she is falling prey to the peculiar weakness empathetic people are prone too. Hatred of everyone outside their circle of empathy. It's easy to believe, say, and do deeply unethical things to those you feel no empathy for. If she wants to evolve as a person, she will learn to curb her emotions with her intellect and expand her circle of empathy.

    51. Dev, it is now obvious to me also that TJMO is not quite as stable as her beautiful prose would lead us to believe. This is unfortunate. S/he does have good things to say. But I think she has listen to or read a lot of beautiful crap and can recall it well, but not necessarily in the right sequence. She has not analyzed it for herself.

      TJMO, I know I am being harsh. But here is an example. This is what you said Aug6 @11:05pm:


      TJMO, do you see the contradiction in your words above? You say you don't see how difficult it is to have emotions, but then at some point in your life, you had to shut them off to the point that you were not able to cry? .. I think you do know exactly what i mean when I say that it can sometimes be difficult to be sensitive and emotional. You just have not fully analyzed and internalized that fact yet. And that is the reason that I said I sometimes envy sociopaths. Because they don't have to face that incredibly difficult turmoil.
      However, like you, I would not want for my emotions to go away. I think I made that pretty clear in my posts in the last few days. I worked very hard to keep them when I went through hell. As you said, losing your emotions is like loosing your sense of humour... I just looked for a post if mine i remembered - thank you Search Button - and Dev, btw like you I am originally a developer... I love search buttons. The feature I like best in a development tool is the search button. Well, IntelliSense is pretty cool as well, but I digress - I said that I cannot fathom a life with blunted feelings. I'd rather loose my sight or hearing than my ability to feel. Said that not too long ago on jul7 on "loving a sociopath child".
      And no, I am nowhere near to being a sociopath or any cluster B, nor do i wish to be, even with my sociopath friend's influence over the past few years.

  4. I may be reading into this the wrong way, but the sort of reaction to sociopaths described in the comment, and indeed any negative reaction to what sociopaths are rather than what they do, smacks of a certain kind of envy. It seems to me that anyone who claims to hate sociopaths not because they lie, cheat, hurt people (i.e. what they do) but rather because they don't feel remorse for these actions or have any wish to change (i.e. what they are), is secretly jealous of what sociopaths have.

    In a wider sense, I'm not convinced (lack of) feelings of remorse make a 'morally bad' action any better or worse. To take an extreme example, a murder is a murder is a murder. Whether or not the murderer feels guilty about his or her actions, there's still a dead person and a bunch of people negatively affected by that person's absence and the manner of their 'departure'.

    1. I don't feel this way at all. I think the jealousy defense is one of the most bizarre i keep seeing from socios here. i think it ties back to socio self-deception (yes, even socios are self-decieved, just like everyone else.)

      My emotional reactions to the sociopath I knew had to do with pain and feeling quite hurt.

      I've been thinking lately that in the time I knew my socio (before I realized he was socio), that I would try to explain his personality the way I do with others - I consider how their feelings are leading them to their actions so that each felt "justified". So far in my life, people have been hurtful or cruel and I can usually tie it back to some emotional issue that they are dealing with.

      But to learn that somebody will do something to you just because is a bit scary.

      I'm not going to call anyone more or less evil, but I can promise you I will never willingly risk another involvement with a socio, but I will continue to carry on relationships with neuro-typicals. I accept your existence - I just want nothing to do with any of you.

    2. Thank you anonymous for telling it like it is. This really is a cesspool for sociopaths to do their posturing. Prior to M.E. writing her book I popped in on occasion. Huge turnover of socios, non of the originals are here anymore. Same shite, different handles. The non socios just keep drinking the koolaid from the cesspool. Old and wise actually does sound more like a socio, good observation. Shallowness ( calling what they can not get rambling) and accusing people of envy has become redundant. No matter how many ways they stand on their heads, the predictability is rampant.

  5. Jamie you are an idiot.

    Sociopaths have not even a sense of their true selves. Their emotional rage is limited. Spiritually bankrupt. Oh yeah, the biggie when it comes to emotions in sociopaths is envy, not the other way around.

    1. Thank you for sharing your opinion. Just a shame you chose to cowardly hide your identity. I may be an idiot, but at least I'm not an anonymous pussy. Also, there's such a thing as a reply button, which I am making excellent use of now. The more you know :)

    2. he he he FUCK YOU and your anon shit you JUICY sociofuck wannabe

    3. I beg to differ, anonymous. There can be some envy towards the freedom lack of fear and remorse affords a sociopath. As an over emotional person, I am somewhat envious of that.

      That said, I do not envy the limited palette and range of emotions sociopathy ‎seems to place on a person. But "normal" people can learn a bit from high functioning sociopaths. Have you never wished retrospectively that you had the presence of mind to say or ‎do something in a particular situation, and realized you could have, had you not been overwhelmed by fear or another emotion? Have you never thought "I wish I had the guts to do that".

      A good read which I have mentioned before is Kevin Dutton's "the wisdom of psychopaths". It can be very educational, should you choose to approach it with an open mind.

    4. Having just read what anonymous said at 1:35, I wish I had not bothered responding to him/her. Obviously a waste of words. He/she needs to calm down.

    5. Anon, my "emotional rage" is not limited in the slightest. From the tone and content of your post you also seem to experience substantial "emotional rage". Does it make you feel spiritually bankrupt and envious?

    6. Agree with you there, your emotional rage must hit off the charts. Emotional range is where you falter.

    7. Are you too dense to notice I was making fun of their misspelling?

  6. Hey old and stupid. That bullshit baffles brains post is not wisdom.
    Anyone can reason with a hunter, but not the wounded mother bear whose domain has been intruded upon by the predator.

    1. Exactly my point anonymous. I'd rather be faced with the hunter than the wounded mother bear.

    2. You make an impressive game warden in your world of fantasies.

    3. Is your ego that out of control you think you can reason with an injured bear, or are you just that stupid? I'm inclined to think the latter, seeing how much difficulty you have with reading comprehension. You're great entertainment though.

  7. lol
    you guys are funny
    cowardly pussy needs to be educated by reading your books and have an open mind
    now this he or she needs to calm down

    She has been having a good time thanks to you. Now on to the real world.

  8. Normal people do the normal thing, which is blame people for being a certain way.

    There's contact, a perception, a thought ("I don't like that evil sociopath"), a feeling of fear & hatred, followed by a reaction (grab the pitchfork and torch, call the neighbors).

    If the empath didn't take his thoughts or feelings to be true, or could sit on his hands until they passed, he could avoid another round.

    the same is true of the sociopath, of course. but then he has a lot less insight and impulse control. but when he sees it, he can stop too.

  9. One more try. By now I can only assume that you are the same anonymous who is also calling Jamie stupid. But if you came on this site, you might have a reason. I am making the assumption you have been severely wounded by a sociopath. You are not the first nor the last. But you can make the choice to learn from it, or let it consume you. I am willing to bet the sociopath who wounded you wants the latter.

    Personally, I do not mind at all being shown to be stupid. I like a good argument, so if you have one to put forward,‎ please do. A great part of being wise is knowing that you are not, and being receptive to criticism and new ideas. My screen name is tongue in cheek anyway. I am not that old, and I am certainly not that wise.

    So calm down first, then try to think. If my post and Jamie's post angered you so, to the point of calling both of us stupid and using foul language, try to find out why, and explain. You may actually have a good point and I would love to hear it.

    1. Honestly, I get the impression they're just trolling.

    2. Yeah Dev is right, they just trolling.
      How seriously you take yourselves here has made me come back.
      Now you please have an open mind.

      You have issues expressing what you want to say when you want to say it and you can focus on what your sociopath friend wants from you and what that friend gives you in return. That my dear old wise one is being co dependent. Your socio friend shall always speak for you and you are on the wrong site taking yourself seriously and defending the predators. To your socio friend you are replaceable in a heartbeat, yet to be on this site defending him/her not the reverse. The best thing you can do to find yourself is scary because it would be going it alone till you learn to shed your codependent traits and start reading books on how to help express that which your inner self shuts down due to emotions in lieu of how wonderful these half evolved beings are. There is so much more I would like to say to you and Jamie. No am not angry at any sociopath, just frustrated by your misplaced idealism. You like to get hurt, no problem.

      The person whom I really admire here is first poster. Such insight is rare and precious. Are you in that deep that neither you nor Jamie been able to pick up on that?

      Bet you shall come back defending your sociopath friends because you really are in that deep. Brain imaging says they are not quite as evolved is all I am gently, this time, saying. Good luck in your lives from anon.

    3. The bullshit and idiocy is strong in that one XD. What exactly are your words based on if I may ask? What professional background on, or experience do you have with sociopaths anyways.

    4. Anon,
      If you really think the rambling, illogical comment from M.E.'s admirer is profoundly insightful you're either in need of a head exam, or you're stupid. If it's stupidity I give my deepest condolences, there's no cure for that. Now, if you were singing Trololol on the way here; congratulations, well trolled Anon, well trolled.

    5. Must be a troll, because that first comment was as deep and insightful as a pothole.

    6. Bob, I agree that's most likely the case, but I try not to underestimate the human potential for stupidity. Technology's gotten so easy to use that every moron with an internet connection can use a keyboard to spew the contents of the random bullshit generator they call a brain.

    7. Bob,
      Speaking of random bullshit generators, if you haven't seen the Postmodernism Generator you might get a kick out of it.

    8. Anonymous@315PM, I am very happy you broach the subject of co-dependency. (Trolls have their use afterall :-)
      You sound knowledgeable, ready to help, and more frustrated than angry. Three good attributes in my mind. And quite articulate. Fourth good attribute.

      I am not saying that I am or I am not co-dependent. It has crossed my mind. This is after all pretty much the only thing you see on the web or anywhere else when it comes to “Normal” people having a friendship or any type of relationship with a sociopath.

      But I have been trying to challenge the idea that there are only 2 ways to interact with sociopaths: either be co-dependent or reject them/run away.

      If you read more of my posts, you will see that I do not glorify sociopathy. Nor do I try to eradicate them from the human race. I am actually trying to find a way that works for both “them” and “us”. This includes trying to teach “normal” people to not be victims of sociopaths. Being a victim is easy, but I also have always found it degrading (talk about co-dependency).

      I am curious…

      How do you think society should deal with these “sub-humans” sociopaths? (You said half evolved beings... In the same token, how about Down Sydrome people, Autistic people, BDP people, or cluster C people, for that matter)
      In your mind, what is the difference between friendship or love, and co-dependency? Where do you draw the line?
      You said you have come back to reading or participating on SW. What is your stance? Why are you interested in the subject?
      Also, can you give the readers some web sites that can tell them how to deal effectively with sociopaths, and recover from co-dependency?

      Your input and help is appreciated.

    9. I'd like to see that answer too.

    10. Thirded.
      You have to admire the people on this site being able to turn a raving troll into a (slightly) less raving honest contributor.

    11. I'd like to see the answer as well.

      OldAndWise, you may not in fact be very old or particulary wise (so you claim, hehe) but your ability to turn this into an interesting discussion borders on fucking alchemy.

    12. Keep drinking the koolaid.

  10. My problem with sociopaths is they seek out to hurt control and push the envelope as far as they can to destroy someone. I can accept a sociopath but keep in you lane and i'll keep in my lane. I don't intentionally come after you & don't come for me. I just don't see how that is something to be proud of. In reading the book hiding in plain sight boasts of such type things. Like a badge of honor. It doesn't make a sociopath any smarter, that stands out to me more of a weakness. Most People eventually figure you out.

    the thing that gets me the most is how a sociopaths view of themselves. they really are not all that & a bag of chips like they believe.. I sit back and observe because I know pride & arrogance prevails before a fall. If you fall due to your own arrogance and pride - I relish in seeing that. It's deserving to me at that point & I'm an empath.

    1. Dear Empath, ( love that term by the way M.E., kudos ! )
      I'm a psychopath/sociopath and i know people don't think i am as great is i think i am. But somehow that doesn't matter. I feel great and think i'm great. No matter how bad i heart another person.
      I love myself like people love god. And even if he drops a roof on top of his followers that kills them instantly, they love him anyway. Thats the way i love myself unconditionally.
      So to summarize, i don't care what anyone thinks and i don't feel bad about anything i do. And i love myself while i do it. no master what it is.

      regards John

    2. A grandiose sense of self worth is one of the symptoms of the disorder; I don't know why that emotionally perturbs you. Clearly you are overflowing with empathy, relishing in others foibles and misfortunes. I suppose people other than yourself who are proud and arrogant are exempt from your hallowed inner circle of empathy.

    3. It doesn't. I can assume anyones point of view. Teresa or bundy. Just because i understand doen't mean i care.

    4. I wasn't replying to you John.

    5. So I am arrogant, proud, and have been called a megalomaniac more than once. But I am also a religious and believing Catholic. My morals and conscience might be in the grey area but, it doesnt matyer cause all I have to do is follow what my faith (Jesus) tells me is right. I try to help people as much as I can, and my friends tend to rely on me for consolation and advice. Just because I don't care about their problems doesn't mean that I want my friends to hurt. I try to help because helping is what I should do as a Catholic. Because of the fact that I don't get very emotional and rely more on reasonmy friends have often found my counseling beneficial whether it be for family, social, or romantic issues. My father is pretty humanitarian, and many people have told me how great a person he is, so I also have him as an example. I was born in the higher middle class of my country and so did not have to experience misery, though I saw it and was exposed to it pretty much every day considering I am from the poorest country in the western hemisphere. My father often took me and my brother to the poor region of the country and encourage us to play and share our tous with the less fortunate kids in the villages, while he discussed the neighborhood problems with the local adults so that he could address them to the government and departments in charge of those matters. While my brother allowed his emotions to get the best of him and showed his pity and heartbroken sentiments which made the kids feel like they were less then us and made them sad and uneasy, I, because of the lack of such emotions, easily presented myself as one of them, or made them feel like they were one of us which cheered them up and causing them to miss me when I left. Because of my lack of attachment to my toys could easily give them even my most sophisticated ones, while my brother often hesitated and only did so after seeing me do it. Now that I am older and have decided to follow (most of) my Catholic teachings, and because of the fact that I have exposed myself greatly to the rastafari culture I try to become friends with everyone I meet, and express the love I believe in (since I am Christian, and btw not the shallow feeling that empath desperately crave for) which is caring: trying to help people, appreciating: recognizing when someone helps me and their talents, and respect: I think you can figure out what that is. Yes, I have hurt people in the past, most of the time unintentionally, but so has everyone else in the world, only different is that even when I say sorry (which is mostly out of courtesy) I don't mean it because I don't feel guilt or remorse. The worse thing I have done, outside of for self defense or protecting someone dear to me, is getting girls to like (or even fall in love with) me and not being able to recipricate the feeling. In my defense I warn them that I'm incapable of doing so before pursuing them. I have not sadistic pleasures, and I don't care enough and am too lazy to create a big plan to ruin someone. Outside of speeding, smoking, and underage drinking I try and respect the laws (yes I have stolen a few candy bars, and a pair of sun glasses from the neighborhoof publix or gas station but who hasn't). Tell me am I worse than most people you know? Why, because I don't care, don't feel guilt, and I'm trying to build my stairway to heaven?

    6. So you're Haitian then.

    7. Lol yep half French, half Haitian

    8. Tii, that was beautiful. Made me smile. Now I understand why my husband can get rid of every little tickers that I have more trouble separating from. he has no attachment to them, except for the things that really matter. That was LOVE in action, what you described.

  11. Dear M.E.
    I saw a dr. phil episode with you in it a while ago. That made me read your book. Didn't buy it, sorry ;p.
    The thing i always wondered was why you chose the term sociopath. (the term socio is even more confusing since it relates to the spanish translation "partner").
    I have no problem seeing myself as a psychopath. I know i'm not crazy and i think it sounds cooler than sociopath. The term seems just soft to me.
    Furthermore i wonder sometimes what it would be like if i could make a connection to another human being. Everything (read connecting) seems so natural and easy to others. Sure i am charming as hell and always get what i want effortlessly but truly connecting never comes into it. But thats all it is i just wonder, i wouldn't change anything if i could. I love myself way to much just as i am.
    Also i would never want people to find out what i am. That would make life really difficult. No one would trust me anymore.
    The only negative thing about psychopathy (or sociopathy) is that i find it hard to sleep at nights. i can't just lay down and go to sleep. I always have to do something. This means i'm tired a lot. Alcohol helps a lot and audiobooks. Have listened to hare's and dutton's audiobooks a trillion times.

    P.S. was wondering by the way, are you found out yet?

    Regards John

    1. Psychopathy is commonly mixed with the term Psycho (people think it is the slang/abbreviated form). Psycho is actually short for Psychotic, which unfortunately often gets inappropriatedly blended in with Psychopath due to TV and movies who get it wrong - writers are not psychologists. Because of this, sociopathy is a less "loaded" term.

    2. John, M.E. almost never interacts with people in the comments (not as herself anyway). I saw a TV interview with her a while back and she said she chose sociopath because of the negative associations of the word (like Bob points out). That she thought sociopath was somehow less of a toxic term made me giggle at the time.

    3. Connecting to a particular person requires a lot of mental effort. When I dig into a person I always search for the boundaries of the developing relationship. That's not to say that I really care about that relationship. Mostly I'm curious about devising a model of that person in my head. Only when enough time has passed and I know how to deal with that person on most levels, do I develop a seeming of an affection towards them.
      It all seems so fleeting, unless I code it into my consciousness (permanence is of it is very relative too).
      I guess you can only ever love something that is a part of yourself.

  12. You can spot an ASPD by the aura of latent homosexuality that radiates from them.

    It's so noticeable and obvious that anyone except the very naive would rather avoid them because of this. (ASPD's usually target and surround themselves with either like-minded (insane) or naive individuals.)

    1. Sad little troll. Did you really just resort to the "you're gay" insult of the common 11 year old gamer troll. This assumes we think there is something wrong with being gay. Please up your game.

    2. that was what i was thinking too, but it makes sense. A lot of men are attracted to me. I am however not attracted to them. But it is useful if you know how to use it.


    3. Sad little faggot.

      Did you really just resort to calling me a 'homophobe'? Are you implying that homosexuality is somehow normal or natural?

      Who is this 'we' you presume to be speaking for?

      Please calm your hemorrhoids.

    4. The ones who spew hatred are always anons. Could it be that you're ashamed?

    5. Do you find that there is something wrong with homosexuality?

    6. If you check your science you will find that across the animal kingdom mammals (including humans) present at approximately the same rate of homosexuality in all species. So yes I am "suggesting" that it is natural. I do wonder if you have a valid point though since I am approached by a much larger contingent of couples and females than the rest of my circle. I am approached by more men though too so I dunno. Maybe we put out a pheromone or something. Actually my roommate gets hit on by couples too.... something to think on. I get approached by complete strangers who want to tell me their life stories and ask advice daily for no reason so maybe there is something to this. Does anyone else have this problem?

    7. @9:09
      I prefer to remain anonymous, mainly to avoid creeps, stalkers and the usual kind of annoyances. Also, probably because I don't have an overblown sense of self importance.

      My 'science'?

      That isn't science.
      That's simply an excuse.

      Seems all you ever manage to come up with are excuses.

      Excuses, excuses.

    8. Let me guess Anon, your "science" is prefaced with the word "Christian".

    9. @2:13
      No one asked you for your opinion, you aren't even part of this conversation.

      I don't give a fuck about your beliefs, or whatever it is that you use to define your existence.

    10. My grandiose sense of self worth means that I don't give a fuck if you invited me to participate in your conversation or not. Moving onto reading comprehension 101, I never said anything about my beliefs. I was lampooning yours, moron. Why don't you crawl back into whatever sad little gene puddle you came out of.

    11. @2:37
      I don't believe in anything I can't verify for myself.

      Meanwhile, you're spewing your propaganda all over the place. Why don't you tell us more about this great gene puddle you hail from.

      I'm not interested in having a argument with you, you're an idiot.

    12. Seeing as I'm not religious, I have no propaganda to spew. Thankfully, my gene puddle is large enough to be called a pool, unlike yours.

      So tell me Anon, does the Earth orbit around the sun, or the sun around the earth?

    13. @3:06
      Your sun is the light globe I use when I study your puddle.

    14. What rigorous methods did you use to verify that, Anon?

    15. So Anon I am believe if I am reading your responses right you seem to ascribe to the notion that homosexuality and by that logic heterosexuality is a choice. As I and everyone I have ever discussed this with knew from an early age which sex or sexes they were attracted to and were actually repulsed by the thought of sex with the other I can only assume that you, like my bisexual friends, are attracted to both sexes and had to make a conscious choice to conform to what you saw as "societal norms" for some reason. I am truly sorry for you. Just so you know people who are born straight or gay don't ever have to make this "choice". I wonder though if you are just an idiot who likes to feel morally superior to others. Lets do a test then. I am assuming you are male, correct me if I am wrong. Do you ever get sexually excited watching two women kiss? Then you are a hypocrite. You don't get to get off on watching gay people have sex and then condemn them for being gay. If it is just male homosexuality you dislike then may I suggest that you have just been brainwashed into thinking that what two consenting adults you don't know get up to with their genitalia has any effect on your life. Either way I would feel pity for you. If I could. Mostly I just like yanking your chain. Really you came on a forum high intelligence master manipulators with low/no emotions who get off this shit to do what? Piss us off? Not possible. YOUR HATRED FEEDS MY SOUL! Thank you for participating in your own beat down. Please do continue to expound your ignorance.

    16. @8:09
      You did it, champ.

    17. I think its the confidence that psychopaths radiate. For some reason that can be frightening to empaths and very attractive too.


    18. I think you are on to something there John.

    19. John might be right. I'll propose a possible alternative. I don't think most socios are particularly invested in their orientation, and don't care what others' orientation is, so it makes their sexuality ambiguous. The ambiguity makes everybody think you're available. This could be exacerbated by the incessant mirroring; others really think you are whatever their orientation is.

  13. Don´t we all love to have our small replys on the "frontpage"? Maniac, crazed, rabid & psychopath. It most likely will require some more education to remove that last category from the others? New books with defensive contents could lead in that direction. But movies has probably ruined this "cause" forever, its been rubbed in too many tmes; one always get the explanation in plots that certain really heinous villains has been diagnosed a certain mental state..and then "we all know" exactly how bad it is.

    1. Strangely I believe we have actually been helped in the fictional media lately by shows like Dexter and Sherlock (British version). Both shows have a socio lead character but one who has a moral code they live by. My roommate and I (both socios) have been attempting an experiment lately. We are out and proud! We have been "coming out" to our friends. We tell them, answer any questions they have and our friendships have continued as normal. One thing we do find hilarious though is that most of them erase the information from their brains. While my roommate's (husband, roommate(bf) and I all fall along the spectrum) declaration is usually met with a lack of surprise, he never has bothered to hide it much, mine is met with astonishment and denial. The usual response is "But you are the kindest, most empathic, moral person I know! How is it possible?" "You are the person EVERYONE comes to with their problems and you always help us through them." I am also the most spiritual of my friends which they seem to equate with "goodness". They know I live by a strict moral code which I try to never deviate from and after 25 years of practice I am pretty good at it. I think the ones who who do a memory erase "have to" to deal with the disconnect of having to accept that I act one way but think in a manner altogether different.

      It seems to me to most Empaths thought, emotion, and action are tied together so tightly that they become one thing. Empaths do horrible things too. There are very few people in the US that do not identify with or could be diagnosed with, some kind of mental disorder. I believe most spree murderers to be Narcs not scoio's for instance. Narcs are the ones people need to be terrified of. Socios without a moral code are indeed dangerous. Mt roommate for instance was dangerous before my husband and I took him in and guided him. We can learn from each other. I am not pretending I not dangerous. I have been. I could be again. But I am probably less of a danger to society than most Empaths. I don't know many people who have never done anything horrible. The only difference is I don't feel bad about what I have done on an emotional level. I think this is what bothers empaths, they cannot see how we can change without an emotional impetus.That and their moral sense of justice is horribly offended by the fact that we are not emotionally tortured by our past actions. Most normal humans have this idea that life should be fair, the guilty should be punished, good people rewarded and evil people punished. You can't actually punish a socio. We just don't care. This pisses them off.

      I have been lurking on the blog and reading for a while. I have noticed that quite a few people who have been harmed by a socio posting rants at socios in general and it really does confuse and amuse me. I don't understand their end game. Are they trying to provoke an emotional reaction from us? Make us feel guilty for what the person who harmed them did? Make us consider our own actions and feel guilty about them? I have one question for them: Are YOU insane? Do you understand the actual impossibility of what you are trying to do? The futility? We are what we are. We do what we do. It is not personal. Are you offended BECAUSE it is not personal? Is that the problem? Some socio wrecked your life view (because only you can allow an experience to destroy your actual life) and it is appalling to you that they did it for no other reason than it amused them and if it was not you they would have done it someone else? You're not special to us. Get over it. Would you feel better if the person who had done the damage actually did it because they HATED you? Please think about it.

    2. Well you seem like a jolly fun basket of puppies. Welcome to the madhouse.

      Your coming out experiment is fascinating, especially due to the surprising way your people reacted. I'm guessing the erasure has something to do with cognitive dissonance; they knew you both as loving, caring, normal friends of theirs, what you told them was the complete opposite of that, which messed up their brains and caused them to disregard one of their versions of you, that just so happened to be the one they prefer. Perhaps that's not so surprising after all...

    3. I really enjoyed reading puppy basket’s comment. It makes me wonder now as well what the intention is on the part of people who feel they have been hurt by a sociopath to come on to this site, and complain about it. Is it simply to vent? Is the intention to illicit an emotional reaction from a sociopath? Is it to try to shame them in to acting and behaving in a way that they deem acceptable? I have been wondering about the use of the shaming tactic for awhile now when it comes to certain types that can’t be shamed in to behaving, sociopaths for example. Why do they continue to utilize it when it is ineffective? I do have a question though. You say your roommate was dangerous before you took him in, and guided him. It appears that you think that he has changed, but how do you know that he is not at this point putting on a façade for you?

    4. Thanks for welcome folks. In answer to your question Dr. Ginger my roommate loves to talk about all aspects of his life. Since I don't judge when he does something "bad" he feels free to share with me. I have known him 10 years and lived with him 3. He does actually want to change. Not because of any guilt about past "bad" behavior but because it was causing problems in his life. We agreed to run most things by each other and see if they pass the "sniff" test for evil behavior. One of our reasons for "coming out" is to make us less likely to engage in overt manipulation with our shared circle of friends. I know he still manipulates people, he does it less now. He decided to quit seducing women simply because he knows what he is and does not think it fair. We are hoping to find a "nice" socio girl for him. He was dating one for a while but she had no moral code and did not want one and it got a little exhausting for him. The most fun was when he moved his Paranoid Personality Disorder Girlfriend in with us for a while. Seriously hilarity occurred. He tried to manipulate her logically and she retaliated by trying to manipulate him emotionally. He still does lie to me from time to time out of habit but since I can spot and call him on them, I appreciate when he does the same for me, we rarely do it anymore cept out of habit. He does still keep on level of mask when he thinks I will call him out on a repeat bad behavior. He does edit the past sometimes but don't we all. Part of the process. Other than work he also spends most of his off time in my presence so other than online manipulation I can pretty much tell what he is doing.

    5. More interesting stuff there. Actually, I did have a question that I meant to ask before I got sidetracked by boorishly showing off and fawning over your adorable username.

      How exactly did you do the 'coming out'. I know it didn't exactly go to plan, but how did it unfold? Presumably not just "Here's a funny thing, and you're gonna laugh, but it turns out I don't have a conscience. Ta dah!"

      May I say also that it sounds like you have most of the power in your roomie relationship, which must be a sweet situation for you.

    6. Yes I do have most of the power and it is sweet. I always do though. Usually something comes up in conversation subjectwise and we just lay it out there. This is how we look at that because we are sociopaths. Then they try to point out why we can't possibly be and we educate them on what it really means and our particular moral codes. Question and answer session follows which usually leads into another subject like normal conversation. I will admit all of our friends are Gamers so have a higher incidence of poor social adaption anyway. I am the only one who has any "normal" friends.

    7. @Puppy Basket

      I was abused by a person, which I think he has psychopathic traits. Of course I was angry and annoyed and disgusted for a while. How would you feel, if you find out everything was a lie and he manipulated you all the time?

      Never ever I experienced something like that. Than I informed myself, learned about that type of disorder and other personality disorders. I am not angry anymore or want revenche. As you mentioned, they, or you are who you are. It is not personal. It is hard to get, that a person can't feel you, can't sense you. Just having an idea of you, how you should be.

      Still can't believe, how to feel "not to feel", because I feel all the time. That is why I came here, to learn and understand more. Not to judge. I needed some answers, because he would never admit, he just mentioned some things in that direction (like: "People only know me 20%", "I can read your mind", "I observe people"...) maybe, Idk.

      Now I think, we are just all human beings. Plus I am not naive anymore. Have some friends with BPD, they are refreshing. I avoid them, when they are in attack-mode (devaluing). Because I can understand them.

      Of course I would never fallen in love with my Ex, if he told me he is a psychopath or somebody with ASPD, or how do you want to call it. I think he can't love, maybe tolerate.

      It is really interesting all this different kind of behaviours. Can't say what is better or worse. It just is...

    8. German I am gratified you have forgiven and moved on. Holding grudges only gives people power over you. I used to seek revenge until someone pointed out to me that that People in general are not "doing it to me" they are just "doing it". We are all made up of our damage and our triumphs and we do what we do for no other reason than it is what we are. True spirituality is when you transcend that and do what you do because it is right. When you seek understanding for it's own sake.

      I do think the mind reading thing scares people more than knowing I am without emotion. I used to fake mind reading just to freak people out. It is perhaps one of our most useful "tricks" and one we can't turn off. Our lives have depended on it too often.

    9. Thank you for your kind reply. And I am glad, that you deal with yourself in that way. It is not for us, it is just for you, Respect.

      And that is a great insight to say "people just doing it, not to me". So true.

      Can't even say, if I am a good a bad person. I want to feel in peace with, what I am doing. That's all. And I don't want to waste my energy. Life is too short.

  14. A couple of days ago, I asked the question, "Do you suppose M.E.
    ever had a genuine instance of crying over regret in her life, from a
    broken relationship or the loss of a loved one?"
    If I recall, in her book she cried to her girlfriend, who assured M.E. that she WOULD forgive her even if she killed her family.
    Let's play a little detective work and see if M.E.'s heart can be touched in
    a way that people could see. Could she be caught crying? I ask this NOT
    because I want it to happen, but to authenticate personality systems.
    M.E. is an ENTJ. The reason why I say M.E. is a Judger. is she is a fairly
    responsible person. If M.E. couldn't exercise disipline and just did
    ANYTHING that entered her head, she would never have gotten where
    is. Her Morman faith MAY have contributed to her responsibily, but NOT
    to that extent. For her to toe the line, it must be the result of her inate
    nature. She STAYED Mormon. She could easily have left the faith.
    We also see that she is on a "mission" to promote her views and theories. She has a personal ethicical code of "just" and "unjust."
    Now, in terms of emotional displays, M.E. would NOT likely wear her
    emotions on her sleeve. M.E. is a thinker, as opposed to a feeler. She
    holds her cards close to the vest, she RETAINS her composure. Many
    sociopaths are this way, and that's why feeler's can't fathom their
    lack of reaction to "trageties."
    M.E.'s choice of a legal carrier fits in well with this personality type.
    In the legal field you have to display a "non plussed" reaction to repugnant things. You can't show your hand. You must have natural
    composure. Many attorneys are thought to be sociopaths.
    M.E.'s teaching carrier also fits into this. She can comprehend abstract
    concepts and symbols. (N) intuitive. She can understand more then
    "basic" things like jewlery, fashion, cosmetics, parties, and sex.
    She resides at a higher comprehensive level. When she tries to be
    something she is not, she comes off comical, like wearing the wig on
    Dr. Phil.
    M.E.'s true name is nothing to be ashamed about, and she has no need
    to hide it. It tells us many things about her of course, the "J' cornerstone
    showing concern with PRIOR things. Her family life, her religion and
    Justice. ect... The numerical values of each name first, middle and last
    all adding up to 33 (A "master" number) and reducing to 6, a very
    domestic and loving number.
    M.E. is no garden variety sociopath. Her breast size and the school she
    teaches at mean absolutely nothing. She is simply a wonderful woman
    who deserves to be loved. If more people studied personality type,
    rather then "science," more people would understand. And BTW, M.E.
    CAN CRY.

    1. M.E. can cry, its where she feels safest, probably with family and very close friends that accept her, maybe not so with others. I don't think sociopaths cry a lot, but they can &do cry. When you enter a sociopaths heart, watch it. I think only very few tap into this side though.

    2. They cry in self pity. Not for others.

    3. There is nothing more stupid to WANT to see a psychopath as person like you. They are not.

      And nothing more stupid than trying to make psychopathy something magical, people whit superpowers and shit.

      That is absolute bullshit.

      Romance, no thanks. As a psychopath i have no interest in romantic relationships. I'm in it for the sex only, and even that i can get more easily from prostitutes. Because i don't give a shit who the person is i have sex whit. There is nothing it this to be glorified. It's just is like this. I do not connect whit people on any level, they are not "real" for me.. just things.

    4. ^ Not ALL sociopaths fit in this category/description. I can understand the deep desire for the sexual release, tension, but please do where protection for your sake. :) You don't connect because possibly your heart is a bit harden, try it sometime. idk. It might be peculiar to try it, but I guarantee you CAN form very few attachments, and those ones will be beneficial and meaningful.. :p

      ACTION, not feeling. it follows from there.

    5. its kind of hard to act if u don't want to. I never felt the need to connect.

      Crying is an interesting subject. There is (i believe) a difference between tears and crying. I never had a feely cry. But i do tear as much as i can to keep my eyes wet. When you yawn for instance.

      I remember going to a funeral and looking at the coffin of my dead grandmother. i felt nothing i was just staring. Then i looked around me and everyone was crying. At that moment i could tear too. I actually liked that moment. There was something about seeing al those people (my family) so torn up. Really beautiful .

    6. I rarely cry, but if I do, it's only out of frustration or self-pity. It's all about me, not anyone else. I don't cry at funerals or when someone else is hurting. Strangely, I do sometimes tear up in movies if something resonates with my own experiences. It's like fiction allows me to empathize more than I can in real life.

    7. Everyone has a core, even if it is an elusive one. It exists through both the underlying predispositions and the developed responses.
      Everyone has a weak spot that can be penetrated and manipulated. Only an utter fool would try to avoid the consequences of avoiding to understand the whole spectrum of what that means.
      A fool that understands that he is a fool and still acts in a foolish way might not be perceived as 'properly social', but at least he excuses all the other inexcusable foolishness that makes for a better life (read into the last phrase as you wish).

    8. Anon, I get it. Why connect? Your satisfied not too, fair enough. :) . But, If you ever get a desire to connect on some level, next time you buy a girl choose one that is 'nice.' Not with so much attitude, someone you can mold a little. I apologize for being explicit here, but when she's sucking your cock, stroke her hair, feel the hair between your hands, don't just grab it, watch it fall on your hands, the texture of her hair, the colour, smell it, get into her, hold her hand between yours. This might drive you nuts, and revolt you at first, but keep doing it with practise. She may be like a piece of meat to you at first, to get your release and feel that rush, but If you allow yourself to listen to her heartbeat, feel the vibration of the blood pumping through her, and right about the time before you cum, look at the soul of her eyes, see her soul. Practice that atleast once a month, and tell me what happens...

      only if you want... ;)

      My husband felt nothing for his grandma that recently died, but thats because she was very mean to him growing up, so his attatchment to her was null and void, cold. He never cries at funerals, sees no point in attending them either, but I make him put on his show out of respect, haha. Now his other grandma, very fond memories, she was a saint to him, fond memories and smiles, even though she was her classic rageful borderline.

      @Hieronymous Bot my hubs tears up at movies too, just tears, not deep crying. that's it though, in his movies. What you explained makes sense. You can resonate with empathy - with fiction - more than real life.

    9. "I do not connect whit people on any level, they are not "real" for me.. just things." (Anonymous 7:52)

      That being the case, may I ask what the purpose of coming on here to talk about yourself is? I don't have a problem being perceived as 'a thing' by you or anybody else, but it would seem pretty pointless from your end to even bother interacting with all us objects.

    10. To the Anonymous at 8.38:

      I am guessing you might not have a close relationship with your grandma. Did you miss her in some way? What do you mean when you say it was really beautiful (all these people crying)?
      Are you the only socio in your family?

    11. @ SC your story made me a little wet. lol. But the part after about heartbeats and pumping hearts stirred my inner killer. So your tactic is not advisable for me. Keeping things casual will keep me out of trouble.

      Regards John

    12. @ Anonymous August 5, 2014 at 4:04 PM
      No, had no close connection. Didn't miss her. I meant that it was just a nice moment. All those people together caring. I can't really explain i guess. Its something i don't experience yet al those other people do. I might be boring the next time.
      As far is i know not really. My parents are warm but can act really cold sometimes. That amazes me about "normal" people, how cold and aggressive they can be. Sometimes i feel like i'm more emphatic then them. But i read thats quite normal (sociopaths more likely to help people in trouble then normal people in acute situations).
      My brother is an interesting case i can't figure out. He is cold as fuck and lies all the time. Always says confident he's right. And then when i point out he's not he shrugs and goes doing something else. He always throws anger tantrums for no reason. And acts like the world evolves around him. Sociopath right? Then he is also craving attention from everybody and keeps on pulling people in his circle and angrily pushing them out if they don't agree with him. Borderline maybe? And then he gets fired at his job because they claim he is to insecure, makes mistakes when under pressure and constantly asks for confirmation that he's doing the right thing. He has stage fright. And that anxiety contracts the previous diagnosis ( i think). He might very well be just messed up. Anyone an idea?

    13. * contracts = contradicts

    14. Anon @ 4:47 Sounds more like BPD or Paranoid personalty Disorder (or both) than psychopathy.

    15. @ John, LOL. Actually that thought crossed my mind, but i chose to leave it out, NO killing the girl, no erotic asphyxiation, unless of course you play by rules and boundaries. but its too risky, i agree, ha.

    16. @ Anon, 4:47 ""That amazes me about "normal" people, how cold and aggressive they can be. Sometimes i feel like i'm more emphatic then them. But i read thats quite normal (sociopaths more likely to help people in trouble then normal people in acute situations). ""


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    1. What kinds of spells? Tell me more.

    2. True that some popular tv-series introduced fictive sly sociopathic killers as antiheroes. And folks in general do wanna preserve the white shark, almost every tv-program on this is "studying" & "preserving". But to go from alluring fantasies on tv & "mindless predators" to positive real news about "Josh, the brave socioopathic firefighter saving lives where others just give up because of danger"..well that´s a "tall order". Very tall, actually.

    3. Which is actually funny Anon when you think about it. Considering how many of us are attracted to high risk jobs like where we have power over peoples lives. Think of all the socio doctors out there. I used to be a lifeguard and do emergency work. I have saved over 40 lives on and off the job. We make awesome emergency responders since we have no fear and we enjoy both the spotlight and the respect people have for emergency workers. Also since we keep detached in an emergency we are better equipped to help. I think "Dex the Hot Socio Firefighter" would make an great TV series. Or book.

  16. I know many high functioning socios. But once the mask is off, I can see that they have a miserable inner life which they try to mitigate somehow. And in all the cases, though the psychopaths were very respected in their profession, their sense of logic is so completely off. And they devise these little schemes of arguments which do not have any grounding and are based on assumptions and self every socio commenting here except an honest few. Add to their limited perceptual ability is their inclination for deception and what we have is a person whose arguments are less sensible than a robot's because of the additional deception which a robot doesn't have. Why do you let fear and envy drive your lives? I would like to know some answers.

    1. How do you figure that we let fear and envy drive our lives? Could you perhaps be more specific?

    2. Anon asked " Why do you let fear and envy drive your lives?" Uhm the same reason most people on the planet do? Most of us are the result of horrible abuse and you should be amazed we don't just sit in a corner and drool all the time. I really did used to. I drank at the problems. In AA I learned how to live a different way though. I no longer live in fear. Envy really never was a problem though. As sucky as my life has been at times I have yet to find a person I would trade with. It would just be inviting a different flavor of suck. I am curious myself though. Is your life perfect? What is the driving force behind your life? Mine is spiritual searching and service.

    3. Never start a sentence with "And". If I were to disregard this though, it is clear that you have no idea what a sociopath is. In what way would you consider their "sense of logic so completely off"? As an example, I wanted a few weeks off work. In order to facilitate this, I constructed a scenario whereby my Sister died. I received a lot of sympathy from my employer, and was given carte blanche to bunk off work whilst being paid. How is this "sense of logic" completely off? I got to take weeks of paid vacation above and beyond my contractual obligation whereas a "normal person" wouldn't have been able to do so. Who is the one who has a sense of logic that is "completely off"?

    4. Puppy basket, I love the name. Welcome. Your screen name is an invitation to hugs!! Hope you are not British.

    5. Its funny you think fear and envy come into it. Where did you pick that up? I'm not afraid of anything or anyone. And i don't envy anyone but myself.

      Regards John

    6. "I constructed a scenario whereby my Sister died. I received a lot of sympathy from my employer, and was given carte blanche to bunk off work whilst being paid." You really have no idea how insane this looks to a norm do you? I follow the logic of course but I find it easier just to tell my bosss I am GOING to take three weeks off. I always make sure I am indispensable at work and then take long vacations so they will be grateful and appreciative when I return. I try not to lie in any verifiable way at work.

    7. No, I have no idea how insane this looks to a norm, because a norm would never say that their Sister died unless it really happened. I could have taken these weeks off work legitimately, but if I did so I would have had to use my vacation time, and also given more notice than the same day. In my case, I got several weeks extra paid vacation time, and the ability to take it with no notice.

    8. Incidentally, my Sister lives with my Parents in another Country and I haven't spoken to any of them for over 4 years. So not "verifiable" in any way.

    9. Puppy Basket,

      How do you go about achieving your goal of being "indispensable"?

    10. I learn every job in the place and volunteer to take on some of each persons functions, especially the boss, a little at a time until I am pretty much running the place by myself and everyone else just kicks back. I also make every process as streamlined as possible. Customer's love me and often will not deal with other people who are not as "nice" and "personable" . So when I take off the place usually falls apart. Again not a thing a norm would do. As long as you have little chance of being caught Anon I do understand using that lie. For most "norms" our logic seems a little convoluted.

    11. Old and Wise: Oh stop it! :)

      As for the sister dying, any old idiot could pull that one off. It's the sort of lie a kid would come up with to get out of handing in homework. Making yourself so valuable to a company that they will do anything you demand of them, that's the mark of a professional.

    12. Hi all,

      I posted the top comment, Thanks for the replies. I found psychopathy only two years ago. Finding psychopathy has actually strengthened me and gave me invaluable lessons on living. The socios I have spoke about
      (five of them) are all very dear to me, even now. I am actually devastated still in unseen ways. The trigger of my discovery is another psychopath, who is truly sick, That knowledge led me to discover the psychopathy of the socios I spoke about, Only one of them has no envy. But his logic is so convoluted but can pass of as brilliance individualism if mispercieived. I cannot the place the source of his disconnect from other beings. I have seen him suffer in silence and trying to do the best in life. The others have envy in varying degrees, which gives them the appearance of a dark, tortured life. Strangely enough, these are also the people who were honorable with me and also who actually displayed a lot of affection towards me and would spend their time with me. Two of them always blamed the world in both very subtle and obvious ways. Three of them were very uncomfortable in social scenarios like in the clubs at the peak of partying i.e around 2 - 3 am. They do not seem to have any distance and control over the dark impulses bombarding them and instead try to control the suppression of the aftermath of surrendering to these dark impulses. Such a misplaced sense of control. In my understanding, they are frazzled beyond belief with fear about the world around them. But I cannot also fathom their energy sources that sustain such a highly alert state. I truly believe this highly contrived state of mind can be unchosen because it is not rooted in biology. Please help me with your input.

    13. Hi Voodoopark.

      When I said fear, it is in the sense of not connecting or trusting the person across you. A norm would start with trust and slowly build up or drop his/her relationships. A psychopath's distrust and fear of another person is a constant unconditional impulse that puts the psychopath in a permanent state of disconnect and so disables all the senses which are essentially a means of touch. The socios I know are all reluctant to engage the full capability of touch and the other senses. Even when they are watching something, it doesn't touch them. It's just data. When they hear something, the words or sounds do not touch them. And they are very aware of it, and frustated. The very fact that they are aware of it also means, that they know they can do it as well as a good normal. So that's where I think it's fear crippling their senses and causing aversion from other beings.

    14. I once told an elaborate lie about my mother dying when I was about 15. I ditched school that day, and ended up in downtown vegas. For my own amusement I decided to do it, and told a group of people who were sitting together. The group started to grow. There was an outpour of emotion. People were crying, and showing an excessive amount of sympathy towards me. I was fascinated by their reactions, but about 45 minutes in to it I realized just how pissed off people would be if they found out the truth. Someone had suggested to me that I go talk to a priest so I decided to do JUST THAT! : ) The thing about lies is you could slip up anytime. Telling lies to strangers there is a lower risk of getting caught, but telling that type of whopper at work where you have to see these people everyday, you could slip up anytime. Basket Puppy’s approach is interesting, and I have been mulling over it since yesterday. It seems like a lot of work to put in to something to have control, and get vacations, but if that’s important to you, and you’re willing to put in the work….it certainly seems like an effective approach if you have a strong need to have control. I would imagine you could really use it like a weapon, and hold it over people’s heads. I once worked for an organization where there was this woman who wasn’t in a management position, but everything about her was perfect. She knew the ins and outs of everything. The people in management felt like they couldn’t live without her. I’ve never met anyone like this in my life, and I couldn’t figure it out entirely either. I was always suspicious of her motives though because it didn’t seem like it was genuinely done with real integrity. Maybe she was socio?

    15. Puppy Basket sorry :)

    16. S'okay Dr. Ginger. My usual handle if Basket of Puppies but someone beat me to it this time so any variation is good with me. Yes you were probably dealing wit a socio like me who likes to puppet master from the shadows. The benefit here other than the usual advancement to middle management, I refuse to go higher, for the reason that the people of above me, while I hold the power, they are held responsible. I usually go even further and help all the people there with their social lives and emotional problems as well. No I don't abuse that power. Not because of my moral/spiritual code, though that is part of it, I have just fulfilled this function in group dynamics for so long that it has become natural for me. I worked very hard at learning how both sane and psychologically damaged people think and act that I get real satisfaction in helping others. The fact that it elevates me to Alpha in a group kinda a kick too. The other benefits are: Happy coworkers are much easier to deal with, happy non stressed bosses make happier coworkers and customers. Happier customers make the business more money. More money means raises for the best employees. Now on to the dark side. I am extremely territorial. If I discover a toxic employee who I cannot manipulate into providing beneficial content to the group, or who is undermining the group dynamic or the business, I will eliminate them. I will manipulate events to get them fired or, even more fun, manipulate them into quitting. When I join a group be it work or friends and I enjoy their company they become MINE. I will protect them anyway I can and take out any threat. I just realized I have no idea why I do that and will think on it.

    17. How do you manipulate events to get them fired or quit?

    18. It seems a bit intensive to work all the jobs for just some more weeks vacation. I can take vacation whenever i want. I don't have a fulltime job. I don't know if i would stick around long if i did. Everybody likes me there and i have the strong feeling that most of them think there is something off with me. People don't want to upset me and are afraid of me. Even my boss. This is perfect because i can get away with anything. I have a light workload can dismiss extra work and can do the things i like to do. I know that if i push it to far they will fire me. But than ill find something else. I have a coworker though i dislike. I make his job as hard as possible for him and he will get fired soon. But that is his own fault. I have hardly anything to do with that. But that is always how it goes. If i want something i hardly have to do anything to get it.

    19. Anon 9:06 this is just one example. I was assistant manager at a restaurant. My boss hired another sociopath because she was cute. Like most socio's she had a shit work ethic, lied and stole and from friends. Pretty much she was shitting in my territory. She had to go. So the next time she was late I idly chatted up the boss, who was working the grill, about her constant tardiness and pointed out how it undermined his authority which was the only thing he treasured higher than the chance to have sex with a cute waitress. He yelled at her a little. As soon as she left the kitchen I engaged her in a discussion on how unfair that was to her (her weak point). I then asked her why she took that shit from him when obviously it was her right to show up whenever the fuck she felt like since it was never her fault. He obviously was not being sympathetic to her circumstances. She went to the back and yelled at him. I then let him stew for a few minutes and went back and sympathized with him and added more fuel to the fire. More screaming. Found her and.... wash, rinse, repeat for two hours. Everyone who worked there knew exactly what I was doing but them. Luckily everyone hated her by now and had even asked me to get her fired. When the final meltdown occurred it was a thing of beauty. She quit as he was firing her and you could hear it across the street. I laughed myself sick as did the rest of the crew. The patrons were sorta stunned and confused but wth. I "had to" take her tables for the rest of the night so an extra hundred bucks in my pocket to top off the entertainment. Fond memories.

    20. John yes it is a lot of work. On the plus side by learning all the jobs I can cover any station and therefore make more money. I like learning so there is that. I like perfecting systems of work so again instant reward. I get to control the entire business and all the people in it but I can walk away whenever I want. I don't idle well. I need to be constantly doing something or preferable several things. Lastly it is an adaptive strategy that makes people around me at ease with me. Very few people think a hard working helpful co worker is a threat. They reward you. I like rewards. I don't actually do it for the vacation days. I do the vacation days to provide them with the opportunity to see how much they need me. If I really want time off or when the job gets too boring I just quit. Not like I can't get another job whenever I want.

    21. Are socios attracted to or attached to other socios? What kind of bonds or relationships do they form and with what kind of people ? Does a concept similar to two people sitting together with beer on a beach exist among socios?

    22. - What is the driving force behind your life?-
      Going through the comments here, I would be reluctant to say what force drives me, I "try" to live genuinely, not successfully. That irreversible decision has made the world real to me when experiencing it.I can explain it more, but it would sound out of place in this forum.

    23. @ AnonymousAugust 6, 2014 at 2:58 PM
      Well, most sociopaths tend to avoid each other. the last thing a narcissistic parasite needs is another one. But they can be also great partners in crime.Until they get caught. then they rat each other out.


    24. @ Puppy BasketAugust 6, 2014 at 1:43 PM
      Good for you. Also very entertaining story. Might try the same thing. See if i can poke my coworker like that. I like it.


    25. Would sociopaths ever be loyal?

    26. Are ASPD's really this hard-working though?

      All that effort. Seriously.

      Fuck no.

    27. Any extra effort needs to be worth it. If it's not worth it, it's a waste of effort, and at that point why bother? If you can get away with the illusion of excellence to get a better result than actual excellence, then that is not only easier but also efficient. It's just like natural selection - it's not actually survival of the fittest, but survival of the fit enough. Actual excess is excessive.

    28. I would love to meet a sociopathic woman, sounds like it would be quite interesting, especially if both of us found out about the other by ourselves. And yes, I choose to be loyal to the ones I decide to be friends and close to.

    29. I think socio interrelations depend a lot on the circumstance of the meeting. M.E. tweeted the other day that two sociopaths in a room was a disaster waiting to happen. She has obviously never been to an AA meeting :). Tii if you are looking for a hookup with a "nice" socio lady that is where to find many of us. Bob, I am a bit different in my outlook on how much effort to throw into something than most socios I think. Probably rooted in the fact that I am an artist. When constructing or drawing a piece it can take me months of effort to produce a masterpiece. Hundreds of patient hours and painstaking work. However when I show that puppy off the feedback I get from people in the way of worship of my skill and effort is totally worth it to me. I have noticed that some of the people, not just socios, I know go through more effort avoiding work than actually doing it, or by doing a half ass job they have to later redo the whole thing which means they actually again put more work into the final outcome than I do by putting a little more effort into the original project. Learn to look at the end game. Say you and I work together. I learn each task to perfection by getting the best person to train me on it, then getting tips from the other people who do it. Once I have learned the task I find ways to do it more efficiently and easier EACH TIME I do it. ( a little game I play with myself). Since most tasks effect other tasks I then see how I can streamline all the tasks that are interconnected to make a more efficient whole of the system itself. I usually set myself goals to cut the time and effort going into a task and system by half (not always possible but a good goal to shoot for). If there is a particular task I find irksome I will manipulate a co-worker who is good at it to taking on that portion with positive reinforcements. You on the other hand will spend that time finding ways to avoid doing the task or do a half ass job which means you will often have to redo the task or that the unfinished task will effect the system as a whole. Example: I managed a restaurant. On of the servers tasks at the end of the night was to refill their salt, pepper, and sugar shakers. Total time to do task right 5 minutes. I had one who every night would take the refill tray to each of his tables and fill maybe half his stuff or fill his stuff halfway or just fake filling it. I would then make him redo it. half the time he pulled the same shit. I would make him do it again. He literally opened all of the shakers and then instead of just pouring them full would FAKE pouring stuff in. WHICH TOOK THE SAME AMOUNT OF EFFORT. The difference was he had to the job three times taking upwards of a half hour. I finally fixed the problem since it frustrated the crap out of the both of us by charging him $5.00 to do that portion of his side work myself. The other pay offs are: when raises come around Bob which one of us is getting more money? Which one of us is beloved by our co-workers and boss which we can then leverage into favors? As to survival of the fittest? Let us do another example. I was a lifeguard.If you only did enough to get by when learning this job it could KILL you. Elevator repair same thing. Scuba search and recovery another Each thing in your life you learn and then practice to the extent it becomes excellence might one day be the thing that saves your life. That my friend is survival of the fittest.

    30. I think a lot of her tweets are quotes from other people, and intended to be more thought provoking, and start a discussion. I don't know, what are other people's thoughts? Do others think she posts them because she agrees with them, and feels the same way?

    31. I did kind of have to laugh at the story with shakers, and you makin him go back to redo it :)

    32. Dr. G,
      I agree with you that the tweets appear to be discussion starters more than anything.

      Puppy Basket,
      Some of the disconnect between you and Bob might be due to differences in work environment. It sounds like you're accustomed to producing tangible work product (art, food service) where not doing the job leaves you with nowhere to hide. If you work in an office setting and a lot of your work product is intangible, it's incredibly easy to fake it for years on end without getting caught. Bob, I don't know if you've done much office work, but that's what your comment makes me think. I imagine that in a potentially lethal job, most high-functioning socios would do more than the bare minimum in the interest of not dying. Most jobs are not potentially lethal, so there's no reason to expend that much effort if you don't really care.

      Regarding salt-shaker kid, it sounds to me like he disliked filling them more than he disliked losing $5. In subordinates that I've managed, blatant faking was usually them trying to do such an awful job that someone else would do their work for them because they were gumming up the system so badly. Sometimes they just wanted to be a pain in the ass, it was their way of trying to be in control.

      Getting people fired is amusing. I've done that a couple times. Giving a blow by blow would be fun, but unfortunately it runs the risk of people I've known figuring out who I am. Granted, they should've been fired for their awful job performance. I just hastened the process.

    33. Puppy Basket,

      By AA, do you mean Alcoholic Anonymous? If so, I don't know what I would be doing there, I rarely drink, plus I don't know where the closest one to my location is. I try to be nice and do nice things, but going to AA meetings would just be asking for me to start messing with people. It would just become a place for me to pretend to be a alcoholic and that I am guilt ridden. In the process of talking about how guilty I am, I would just pick words and scenarios to make everyone feel guilty. Sounds like fun, but I'm not too confident I could enter such a place a be serious.

    34. You and me both, Tii.

    35. I can't help but think of Marla the tourist in Fight Club right now :)

    36. Tii I was just suggesting it as a good place to find a socio girl. Lots of us there and most are working at developing a moral code. If you are not one of us with the alcoholism gene though... yeah prolly not the best place for you. We could always start a dating site for socio's only :) (kidding) Damn now I am wanting to do it just to see what would happen......

    37. It was less about doing the minimum, as it was a statement on faking the maximum. About the illusion of being exemplary.

      By the way, with lethal jobs, survival is part of the minimum. Anything else would simply be stupid due to it being counter to staying alive.

  17. I like to forecast the probable futures of people based on their
    For example, during WW2, the allied psychologist's profiled Adolph Hitler,
    as to guess his probable stragety. They used their diagnosis of him to
    predict his moves.
    There was a book written by a man named Waite titled "The Psychopathic
    God." (1979). It was a psychological study of Hitler. The book was largely
    speculation. Waite believed that Hitler was borderline. He based this on
    the fact that Hitler was a man of wildly swinging contrast. He was a
    mixture of "good" and "evil" traits. Bravery and cowardace. Tolorance and
    intolarance. Reason and unreason. These contrasts could whril on a dime. If you believe in psychological theories, the book makes sense,
    if not, no.
    Some psychologists said, "Because Hitler believes he's a Superman,
    every defeat will only spur him on to greater risk taking, and more
    foolhardy mistakes."
    This certainly seems the case. Hitler declared war on America, (He
    didn't have to) AFTER a terrible setback in Russia. He said himself, that
    one of the reasons Germany was defeated in WW1 was because America
    entered the war. Hitler's objective was to secure "living space" for the
    German people by conquring the east. He didn't want war with Britian
    because the English were of German racial stock (Anglo Saxons).
    He didn't equip the German army for the Russian campagan because
    the slavs were "sub-human," and couldn't fight. German's were
    "Ice People," and should have no trouble with sub freezing temperatures.
    Through out Hitler's life, he made illogical and self harming decisions
    that set the stage for his defeat. They say this is another sign of BPD.
    I think it's a rather "cool" idea to project possible future behavior of a
    person, based on personality type. Could M.E.'s behavior be predicted?
    Well, I was the only person here to raise the possibilty that M.E. would
    abruptly leave. I warned people to be respectful of M.E., and posed the
    question: "How would you feel if you showed up here, and M.E. was
    gone?" Most people didn't take me seriously. I pretty much predicited
    she would go. She did not have to stay here and be "dissted."
    M.E. is a quality person. She doesn't have to take anyone's crap.
    You can't find a blog like this one anywhere else. If M.E. really is set for
    life she can dissappear. He chief stumbling block will be BOREDOM. IF
    she does come back, it will be because of boredom. Or, she can write
    more books.
    Now , take Casey Anthony. Many thought she'd get in trouble again by
    now. She did not, and is unlikely to. "The only thing a man has of value
    is what he can sell to another person." Casey IS a good photographer.
    She can change her appearence and work in that field. Or, if push comes
    to shove, and her "helpers" dissapear, being female she can sell her

    1. You say the book was written in ’79, it used to be a lot of killers would get nailed with the bpd diagnosis, but now it’s usually antisocial even if they really have bpd. In the book “I Hate You, Don’t Leave Me”, it mentions Hitler having bpd. Since borderlines are chameleons I used to joke that maybe it was really Eva’s war, but now that I know that socios are chameleons too it sorta blows that theory outta the water :P

    2. Some say "odd moustache" was a masochist longing to be punished, and well..did get punished? Yes he was. Did he qualify as psycho? Evil as hell=yes. Superficial charm between the brimstone speeches=yes. Soft spot for animals, none for man=yes. Megalomania=yes. Obvious insanity beneath a thin composed exterior=yes. I think that´s enough to get a verdict: psychopath. A rather pathetic maniac: a "puppet" wielded by urges.

  18. Thanks to Dr Brave for bringing back my Husband ,and brought great joy to my family???


  19. I think the novel "The Turn Of The Screw," can be very instructive
    to understanding human nature. I don't know if I have a full
    understanding of the plot- many other peoples' education is more
    extensive then mine-but I'll tell you my take:
    A governess is hired to take care of two problem children. Appearently,
    some tragety took place at the estate where she was employed. Other
    employees speak in hushed tones about the event, which involved two
    prior employees (I forgot their names) who are now deceased. The
    governess begins to see the ghosts of these employees, and sees them
    as a threat to her charges.
    I don't know whether she FIRST saw the ghosts and then began asking
    questions about them, or whether the stories of the other employees
    stoked her imagination.
    In any case, she begins a struggle with the ghosts that she thinks
    intend to harm the children, At the conclusion of the novel, one of the
    children-a boy-dies. The governess goes insane. We are left with the
    question: "Did the ghosts actually exist?" Or did the governess "haunt"
    This is a good question because many of the "threats" we feel are of our
    own internal creation. We see the world as we are, and NOT as it
    actually is.

    1. AA defines fear as False Events Appearing Real (F.E.A.R.) so I really think you have something there Anon. I do think Fear and narcissism (ego) are the root causes of ALL mental disorders. All of the other negative emotions/actions/sins have their roots in these two. Greed for instance. I DESERVE, I WANT, so I will get that no matter who it hurts. Anger: Letting someone else's actions control my emotions/actions because they threaten me in some way. etc.. You are so right Anon. Everyone see's the world through glasses made of their own ego and fear. Lets face it my fellow socio's we are not ENTIRELY without fear. Our one big one is being unmasked. "So what?" we say. One fear. That is nothing, and yet it is the driving force behind EVERYTHING in our lives if we let it be. Almost every action we take is driven by this. One might say we are the most fearful people on the planet. Though we don't experience it as an emotional fear we do respond to it as if it is. We craft our very existence AROUND not being exposed for what we are. Yet, as my recent experiment in honesty regarding my condition has proven, to me at least, the rejection I was afraid of all my life has been...nonexistent. Something to think on.

  20. Anon aug5 @ 8:45pm, can you please come back? You have things to say.,,



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