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1:07 AM
@Shog9 It would be nice if I got a date on when the new reopen inbox notification was implemented, so it can be edited into the changelog post.
1:35 AM
Has there been any drama that I missed in the past week or two?
@TheforestofReinstateMonica A faucet that must be repaired
that's hard core
@TheforestofReinstateMonica A faucet that led to time travel
3 hours later…
4:56 AM
> This question has an open bounty and can't be closed
If I see this for an off-topic question, what should I do? Flag it, or wait for the bounty to expire?
@TheforestofReinstateMonica kinda depends on the mod who handles it
Is it horribly off topic?
Flagging is always a good idea
as is revenge close voting after the fact :D
Not "horribly", but it's a product request which is off-topic.
Q: using HW random number generator as source of entropy

Martin VegterCurrently I am using haveged on my server as source of entropy. My Server is used as KVM hypervisor, to run virtual machines. I did not use haveged at the beginning, and I noticed the VMs were draining the entropy pool from the server. Sometimes, when VMs were started SSH waited for enough entr...

Already has one close vote. I couldn't add my own because it has a bounty.
I'd almost consider that a bit of a grey area
So the best stratergy would be to wait and then close IMO
... serial ports? in 2019? 0_0
5:03 AM
Serial ports are still very useful.
I recently had to buy an RS-232 PCI expansion card.
They're great because they don't require any extra drivers and they're super reliable.
@TheforestofReinstateMonica I wouldn't rely on needing to have one on modern gear.
I have one on my DIY router, but that's cause strange chinese platform.
Also, most modern USB hubs are security issues because it's a dual-simplex unicast bus, so USB slave -> master is confidential, but master -> slave is broadcast to all devices on that hub.
Like Ethernet over a true hub instead of a switch.
I might still have one of those....
a true hub
It's common for 10 Mbit Ethernet devices.
that's what I use it for
5:08 AM
half-duplex broadcast, not dual-simplex unicast
5:29 AM
@TheforestofReinstateMonica If it's severe, flag it; a moderator can clear and cancel the bounty so it can be closed
Ben Popper on November 12, 2019

This week on the podcast, we sit down with Jess Lee, one of the co-founders of Dev.To, a social network where programmers come to learn, chat, and share ideas with a community of other coders. She explains her strange journey from working as a tour manager for Kidz Bop to building one of the fastest growing and most progressive online platforms for software developers.

Paul and Sara chat about what language is best to choose as your first when you’re just getting started on your journey as a programmer. Probably not Mathmatica, but it’s a neat one. …

5:49 AM
And... I just applied for an apartment
6:01 AM
@JourneymanGeek \o/ fingers crossed!
@JourneymanGeek I recently outfitted my computer with an IEEE 1394 (FireWire) card so I could import footage from my old DV tape camcorder
Had no other use for the conventional PCI port
Serial ports are also used to control things like projectors. It's how wall panels and dedicated computer software work
6:48 AM
Messy morning to all!
@user58 this time you're lucky to live so far north... ;)
Q: Which browsers are officially supported, and what else do I need?

EarlzWhich browsers are officially supported by Stack Exchange? Also, what else is needed in order to use every feature of the site? Return to FAQ index

SE dropped IE support
@JourneymanGeek That ends a long era of being able to use my Windows RT device on the site
@SonictheReinstateMonica-hog It could still work
just not guarenteed
7:08 AM
Q: What new functionality was implemented that resulted in Internet Explorer 11 support being removed?

Sonic the Reinstate Monica-hogWhich browsers are officially supported, and what else do I need? previously contained the following words regarding Internet Explorer support: This browser is mostly supported on a “because it works” basis. Support may be dropped in the future, without notice, if new functionality is impleme...

@terdon-stopharmingMonica nope ;)
7:26 AM
@SonictheReinstateMonica-hog Strictly speaking, even if it's not officially supported, it should render the site pretty well. SE doesn't rely so heavily on new web technology that it would be unusable with IE11. Hell, you could probably get IE6 to work decently, albeit without SVG.
@TheforestofReinstateMonica afaik, their CSS is the main thing that isn't cross browser, as they're using jQuery
So on older browsers, the site will just look funny.
They started using "fancy" CSS long ago, which sometimes isn't even supported by Edge.
So much for "responsive" lol
Responsive just means working on any screen size, not any browser.
(I think? That's just my common sense, didn't look in the definition itself)
Which is funny because I was told my screen size "wasn't supported".
And that I should just maximize my browser window if I want the site to work. :D
@TheforestofReinstateMonica think it was more with zoom
Zoom still isn't supported.
7:42 AM
No, I never use zoom.
And zoom shouldn't even need support. It's literally a function of the browser.
34 messages moved to Chimney
@TheforestofReinstateMonica oh wait... right! But why you work with non-maximized window? And how you expect websites to "support" it?
In theory responsive design should kick in, but not sure.
I want it to "support"
it by not compressing
the text in questions or
answers to three or
four words per line.
@TheforestofReinstateMonica but that's exactly how responsive design should work.
And I work with a non-maximized window because I use a tiling window manager.
I like to have more than one window open at once. I need my terminal.
7:50 AM
Small screen = less vertical space
@ShadowThePrincessWizard No. Responsive design should not make the site unusable.
And I have plenty of vertical space. It's just all taken up by the sidebar etc.
In responsive design, the side bar would disappear if the screen is too small.
It would adjust itself to ensure it is still readable.
@TheforestofReinstateMonica it does disappear:
well, at some point you hit a lower bound on how small the website is willing to provide a design
That's the responsive view for mobiles
which is usually where small phones would end up being
7:54 AM
I'm not on a mobile.
@JAD That's the thing... They've created a problem that didn't exist before.
@TheforestofReinstateMonica me neither, I resized the browser window.
Being able to view on small screens is something that browsers should handle.
@rene Wasn't there a news article about the Dutch government opining that Microsoft hates Linux or something?
and websites collectively decided that browsers didn't do that to their liking
@TheforestofReinstateMonica sorry but I disagree. SE did and still doing many bad things, responsive design isn't one of them.
7:56 AM
@ShadowThePrincessWizard It's an issue with modern web design culture, not SE specifically.
(Although they are doing it worse than average)
@ShadowThePrincessWizard Ah I see. That only happens if I make it really small.
@TheforestofReinstateMonica yup
Size does matter here.
It's ironic. 10 years ago it wouldn't matter at all.
All websites supported (nearly) all sizes.
Good old times...
Yeah well... 10 years ago everything was better...
Morning ;)
1 hour ago, by Shadow The Princess Wizard
Messy morning to all!
7:57 AM
When it comes to web design, it was. :P
at risk of getting horizontal scrollbars that is
Only if it used bad CSS or big images.
@SonictheReinstateMonica-hog not sure but I have been invited (and attended) a few times to Microsoft sponsored events that promoted how good and well suited a Microsoft technology stack was for government bodies. One pf those events was after parliament declared all software used by govt. should be open source.
@ShadowThePrincessWizard Messy? What have you been up to?
Nowadays websites are slow to load without fast internet connections. Web bloat is a big issue in networking in major datacenters (and to a lesser extent, browser vendors).
8:00 AM
@Tinkeringbell not me personally, but short version is that Israel took down two high ranked officers of a terror organization, and that terror organization is fighting back by firing rockets on Israel.
(Lots of groups that one person calls a terrorist, others call freedom fighters)
What organization?
The Islamic Jihad Movement in Palestine (Arabic: حركة الجهاد الإسلامي في فلسطين‎, Harakat al-Jihād al-Islāmi fi Filastīn) known in the West as simply Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ), is a Palestinian Islamist terrorist organization formed in 1981 whose objective is the destruction of the State of Israel and the establishment of a sovereign, Islamic Palestinian state. PIJ has been labelled a terrorist organisation by the United States, the European Union, the United Kingdom, Japan, Canada, Australia, New Zealand and Israel. Iran is a major financial supporter of the PIJ. Following the Israeli and...
@ShadowThePrincessWizard Oh, oof! And it's not even on the news here :/
I wonder how many Palestinian civilians Israel will kill for revenge. :/
Well, I hope everyone is safe!
8:01 AM
@Tinkeringbell it will be soon when things will escalate.
@ShadowThePrincessWizard Maybe it won't? Can we still hope for that?
So far Israel isn't "burning the ground" in Gaza, but it will happen if Hamas joins the "party"... :/
That whole thing is just messy.
Makes me wish some of the childhood songs about world peace that I grew up with became true ;)
@Tinkeringbell exactly
Yes, the wonderful webpages of days gone by, and not so long ago.
8:05 AM
@Tinkeringbell hehe well that' won't happen
@ShadowThePrincessWizard I know. We can't even behave on the internet, so I shouldn't expect people to be able to do so in real life.
@Rob Hey, I didn't mean we should go back to the 90s. :P
Nothing wrong with 90s.
stealing @rene's private data from Azure
@Tinkeringbell Except for <blink>.
8:07 AM
Nothing wrong with blinking. Keeps your eyes healthy.
Apple seems to have no concern about breaking compatibility with older applications. Case in point: applications developed before 2001 can't be run on 2006+ Macs, <2006 apps can't be run on 2011+ Macs, and now <2009 apps (and some 2009+ ones) can't be run on 2019+ Macs.
Good for them... but Microsoft can't do the same.
Whereas a Windows app developed in 1995 can (mostly) run perfectly fine on a 2019 Windows machine. (Might require a compatibility setting, but still.)
Banks and governments use XP and IE for crucial internal systems.
And upgrading those will cost billions, which nobody is willing to spend.
The only exception is 16-bit MS-DOS applications (<1995), but those can still be run on 32-bit Windows builds
8:17 AM
DOS Box?
@SonictheReinstateMonica-hog most often because Raymond Chen has to do some of his magic.
The game Hover!, developed by Microsoft in 1995, still runs perfectly under Windows 10 1903.
Game Hover is Over
8:54 AM
@ShadowThePrincessWizard Just what I need the day before relatives start arriving in the county.
@user58 heh. Well, at least your area is safe. For now. :)
But if this goes on, Messi won't arrive... :/
Messy situation = No Messi
Is that that soccer guy?
@user58 yeah, just a random guy who happens to know how to play soccer. :D
He is the Ronaldo of Argentine
Well he canceled arrival before, due to massive pressure from BDS... this time they don't even need to pressure. lol
9:02 AM
At which point you go 'Who's Ronaldo, is he the McDonalds clown for Mexico?'
Or you ask "The Brazillian one or the Portugese one?"
@JourneymanGeek organization calling to boycott Israel, in short. Feel free to Google for more details...
Bottom line, they cause many famous people to not arrive here by various means.
@Tinkeringbell fyi, NOS has reported on it by now
@JAD Ah, that's better :)
Nederlandse Omroep Stichting?
9:14 AM
@ShadowThePrincessWizard kinda like the Dutch BBC, also government sponsored news outlet.
@JAD nice
@Tinkeringbell yup that pretty much sums what's going on...
9:32 AM
...meanwhile, I've got a מיון for the army band on Sunday as a sound technician.... but I know next to nothing about being a sound technician.
technically you'd be making sound
@user58 so... how you got to that??
@ShadowThePrincessWizard They asked on a form how much experience you had in a bunch of different things. I said "less than a year" for sound and mixing, since I've done a few projects on my laptop that involved mixing different music tracks and recording instruments. I didn't expect them to call me up for it, TBH. Worst case scenario, they don't call me for a second interview. Not the end of the world.
@user58 ohh, right! Think you mentioned this before. Well, do you want such a "job" as your army service?
It's working for almost free, but still.... maybe better than some alternatives. No?
I'd davka be happy with a position involving the band, because I really like music.
9:52 AM
@user58 nice! So you'll be with actual singers, who might get famous one day, if not famous already. :D
@user58 TBH, the band sounds like one of the best places in the military to be...
(but I don't like militaries personally at all...)
If you want to sing sing, don't shoot.
plus, if you join the band, you get a cool bandana
And it is not even midday yet ...
10:02 AM
the bad puns ...
it's always midday somewhere
Not on the moon
isn't it always midday, on the moon?
on the half facing the sun
at least on the ..... point most directly pointing to the sun
@djsmiley2k-CoW go check and report back. ;)
10:17 AM
@djsmiley2k-CoW but that's not always the same side...
hmmm how are you defining mid day?
I've realised the Moon is occasionally in the earths shadow..
@mag no bandana, but a cool hat!
@djsmiley2k-CoW As the point where I eat lunch.
@Tinkeringbell /me feeds
@djsmiley2k-CoW nah, I don't have the moon.
10:18 AM
isn't the moon tidally locked with earth?
@djsmiley2k-CoW At this point though, I guess mid day will be late ;) A coworker brought donuts to celebrate his birthday...
@JAD historical lock, yes.
We can't even flag the moon. :(
@Tinkeringbell donuts for lunch? That's nuts.
@ShadowThePrincessWizard it was flagged a couple of times. It hasn't been taken down yet ...
10:19 AM
@ShadowThePrincessWizard Not for lunch, as a snack with coffee... though this one was sweet enough that it might last till dinner ;)
Q: Coworker asking me to not bring cakes due to self control issue. What should I do?

Shadow The Princess WizardSometimes I bring cakes to work, e.g. leftovers from birthday party to one of the family members. Most coworkers are happy about it and eat them without a problem, however one employee doesn't want to eat the cake, however finds himself eating it anyway due to lack of self control. Most of the ...

Donuts can be considered kind of cake too.... ;)
@rene because God does not respond to flags. :(
@Tinkeringbell I have snack with coffee almost every day at 10 AM, it does not prevent me from eating lunch at 12. :D
@user58 any idea what font this is? The "ש" looks exactly like a power button.... :/
@ShadowThePrincessWizard bring a Carolina Reaper jam pie.
@Hitodama to my workplace?
was a reply to the question above, sorry :P
@ShadowThePrincessWizard I'm thinking of postponing lunch at least with 30 minutes ;)
This was a really big, sweet, donut :P
10:39 AM
@ShadowThePrincessWizard No idea.
10:51 AM
@user58 :(
@Tinkeringbell yummy!
@ShadowThePrincessWizard Yes, and no... I have a massive sugar dip right now.
Reactive hypoglycemia, postprandial hypoglycemia, or sugar crash is a term describing recurrent episodes of symptomatic hypoglycemia occurring within four hours after a high carbohydrate meal in people with and without diabetes. The term is not necessarily a diagnosis since it requires an evaluation to determine the cause of the hypoglycemia.The condition is related to homeostatic systems utilised by the body to control the blood sugar level. It is described as a sense of tiredness, lethargy, irritation, or hangover, although the effects can be lessened if a lot of physical activity is undertaken...
@ShadowThePrincessWizard Something like that ;)
11:23 AM
@SonictheReinstateMonica-hog Looks like there's nothing that needs my intervention there, at least at this point
@ShadowThePrincessWizard gone
@SonictheReinstateMonica-hog gone
12:10 PM
@ShadowThePrincessWizard ah yes, when I have to say "other" to "type 1 or type 2 diabetes?"
@StopHarmingMonica hope you have neither of those?
@SmokeDetector k
@ShadowThePrincessWizard indeed, hence "other"
12:25 PM
There's a really great teamspirit haunting this place... the lights keep flickering on and off :|
@Tinkeringbell dying neon?
@ShadowThePrincessWizard No, all the lights are just turning on and off, like we're losing power.
@Tinkeringbell ohh... this is pretty common here during winters, when it's windy. Power becomes unstable.
Usually it leads to blackout lasting anywhere between few minutes and few days.
Oh, it's not that bad here (yet)? :P
Usually power is very stable over here. If we have blackouts, it's because something serious happened to the grid.
Huh? Someone might need a coffee to wake up from stalker mode.... ;)
!!/coffee HerMajesty
12:32 PM
@ShadowThePrincessWizard brews a cup of Latte for @HerMajesty
@Tinkeringbell well here due to not having lots of wind or winter, when it is windy and/or rainy... power goes out.
After a big storm few years ago, big parts of Israel were cut out of electricity for days.
It got worse when the electricity company employees went on a strike, refusing to fix broken things, because they were not used to work so hard.
Last big one I can remember that really made a big mess is one in Amsterdam a few years back, and most of the mess was trains not being able to ride either.
But IIRC even that one was 'fixed' the same day, though it took some time for all trains to start driving according to schedule again.
@Tinkeringbell nice... think in USA it's also not good and they have major blackouts without a good reason. @Sonic can probably shed more light about it? ;)
Its all about how the electricity company is being run, IMO, and where the money is being spent.
Here it's being spent on fat bonuses to management, who happens to be relatives of politicians, etc.
@Tinkeringbell as if trains ever drive according to schedule
@Bart Sometimes...
12:40 PM
the schedule is shifted 6 to 8 ...
Most often not though, you're right. Yesterday morning I had three delayed trains, yesterday evening just one but it was delayed so much I missed the connection (arrive at the station at the same time to next one leaves).
Over here they apologize for things like a 2 minute delay.
That's always a fun 30 minutes lost :(
@Bart Here they call you 'dear traveller' when your not travelling because you're waiting on your train
@Tinkeringbell :(
Yeah. Luckily the train usually arrives a lot early so you don't spend the entire 30 minutes being cold... but it's still no fun.
12:43 PM
Here it's so bad that most people prefer to just have a car and be done with it.
So they spend extra time stuck in traffic jams, but at least they're not dependent on a broken system.
I was trying to get a company car... but at this rate, all the bureaucracy is making me think I'm better off taking trains anyways.
At least when I'm on a train I can read stuff, or crochet. Can't do that in a car.
@Tinkeringbell you can during traffic jams.... ;)
@ShadowThePrincessWizard Meh, most of those are 'slow driving traffic' over here. You only rarely stand in the same spot for more than 30 seconds, unless some serious accident happens.
@ShadowThePrincessWizard meh ;)
12:49 PM
Call me contrarian, but I've often found better answers in comments than in answers.
@DavidA Hi Contrarian
@DavidA Turn them into answers, flag the comments as no-longer-needed.
@Tinkeringbell what about buying your own car and have refund for the fuel? That's pretty common here.
@HerMajestyQueenofARC oh, hey! Welcome to the Tavern. Nice hat! ;)
@Tinkeringbell I had that this morning
@ShadowThePrincessWizard I don't need a car. The reason to get one in the first place was the company wanting their employees to not say 'I'm not coming to this semi-mandatory team meeting because there's no trains that late in the evening back home'.
12:51 PM
took me an hour to get from amersfoort to hilversum
@JAD oof. Sorry to hear that :(
@Tinkeringbell oh... but what about weekends and holidays? Car can be useful to go, well, to far away places.... :)
in terms of time it takes to get to work, it's public transport == bike < car
@ShadowThePrincessWizard Thanks! On both accounts
12:52 PM
@JAD you can cycle faster than that ...
@JAD did you go walking?
@Tinkeringbell I would have a different reason for that
@Bart I do really. Usually I do that with a bike, and it takes me ~45-50 mins
As in my work day ends at 4.30 and if you're not paying x2 overtime I won't stay a minute past that
@HerMajestyQueenofARC cheers x 2 :)
12:53 PM
@ShadowThePrincessWizard It can... but at this point, I'd doubt I'd use it much. I don't have a lot to do on weekends/holidays anyways, and once I have my own apartment, the need to get away from people will be even less ;)
bus and train takes 40-45
@mag Oh, that too. But that's for thinking, not saying out loud ;)
I'm usually quite honest
@JAD bike means motorbike, or bicycle?
@ShadowThePrincessWizard bicycle
12:54 PM
which tends to make my manager think 3 times before asking to stay late
@JAD oh... so time might be same but you also work hard and sweat a lot. :/
Unless you have showers at work, not a good idea...
@ShadowThePrincessWizard in other words, free workout
also, there are showers, but I haven't tried them yet
@JAD and coworkers never complained? ;)
sometimes people forget that work too is just a transaction and only 8 hours of my day are for sale at the usual rate
so far not :P
12:55 PM
So either you mask it well, or they're too afraid of you.... :D
there are ways to stop yourself from reeking at work when cycling there
not sweating
turns out if you don't sweat, you don't smell like sweat
12:57 PM
@JAD That's not human! ;)
@DavidA example of what? Your messages kind of got lost inside unrelated discussion here... :(
But the weather is getting colder, so less sweaty too
@ShadowThePrincessWizard That comment answers that question far better than anything else on the question.
@JAD ahhh.... well not used to anything less than 25 degrees Celsius.
I only moved here this summer, so I haven't had much experience commuting in summer yet, although I did bring a clean shirt end of august
@JAD "here" means? And where were you before?
12:59 PM
@ShadowThePrincessWizard it's near 0 now when I leave in the morning
@JAD ouch. So yeah, can now see how you don't sweat... :)
@ShadowThePrincessWizard before I lived too far away to go by bike, so I commuted by train.
@JAD oh, but same country?
Looks like we have many people here from Netherlands... interesting. :D
@HerMajesty you also ride bikes to work? ;)
1:13 PM
cycling to work is a very nice thing
@ShadowThePrincessWizard Nope... I work from home.
Good side: I barely get out of the house. Bad side: I barely get out of the house.
@HerMajestyQueenofARC huh! Good for you. :)
@HerMajestyQueenofARC can totally understand....
Where's the hat from?
Nowhere special... local store... just something to put on the head while photo shooting.
Somehow it ended up on my Twitter profile, because I didn't have any better photos around and I am stuck with the hat now ;)
If you see someone on the streets with the hat on, it is not me
@HerMajestyQueenofARC you....gave it away?! :(
I'd like to work from home some day but I fear that between that and the new low cost delivery service of my grocer I would literally leave my apartment maybe once every 2 months
1:27 PM
No, it is sitting in my closet.
@HerMajestyQueenofARC oh, so it's not with the hat on, it's someone with similar hat on. ;)
Should have been "with any hat on"
Anyway it really suits you well! :D
@mag You could increase your food intake :P You're strict enough about that that forcing yourself to increase it would also make you go out to burn the calories ;)
1:31 PM
@Tinkeringbell I'm very opportunistic about exercise. I like to exercise, but only if I can roll it into a greater purpose
example: making a day trip to frankfurt and cycling 85km instead of train, but only if I actually have to go to frankfurt. Or cycling 8km each day to work, but only because I have to go to work.
Hmm. Same here btw. I do my daily walking to/from the train station, or to/from the grocery store ;)
I adjust my food intake according to my needs, not the other way around
1:55 PM
"We are offline for maintanance."
I hope they'll be able to fix you soon :)
Time to post a bug report and gain rep
Go for it :)
It's back. :D
That's one good thing: These things never last long :)
2:05 PM
Generally I tend to check @stackstatus or tweet them to notify in maintenance issues.
@stackerstatus, an account for tweeting @stackstatus in case the stack's status isn't reported on stackstatus yet.
I heard you stack statuses
slackerstatus or stackerstatus? ;-) jk
for the most stacked of statuses
2:39 PM
See, I told you altright was about to become third largest party in Spain. Wikipedia polls tend to nail the election outcome pretty precisely.
2:54 PM
Heh. In the meantime, this country is getting upset because the max speed on highways will be reduced to 100 km/h
What for / why?
@202324 Something about reducing nitrogen gasses.
I've heard on TV, we all piss plastics. Eeeek.
I never noticed before, so I'm not going to be grossed out by it now ;)
@Tinkeringbell Poor VVD, no longer can they do vroom vroom
in other news, the change is completely irrelevant, the highways are jammed anyways
the idea of driving 100km/h is purely wishful thinking
3:08 PM
you wouldn't believe how nuts people go here against universal speed limits
I demand to be compensated for that 10 minutes longer in the car ....
@rene compensation is in lower fuel consumption :)
@mag slightly comparable with USA and guns?
@202324 add a heating element, and I could be a 3D printer.
@JAD Yeah, there's very few pieces of highway where you're even allowed to go faster than 100 anyways.
@JAD come to think of it, yeah. A bit
I know people who never exceed 100 km/h on the highway yet are so staunchly against speed limits even at 150
3:12 PM
to be fair, it's a USP of the German Autobahn
cultural heritage
(although I understand that's a bad argument against change)
@Bart Sheesh... you're gross :P
@Tinkeringbell do you actually think that or is that a derpy-style trout message?
@mag I'll leave you to guess ;)
because compared to the rest of the 'web this is downright professional chat :p
Hey, I'm a mod. I can't really go and say 'I like your way of thinking there' :P
3:22 PM
you can, nobody will go "oh tinkerbell is so grossly incandescent she can't possibly be a mod"
Meh, people do that anyway. Better not give them anymore reason ;)
@mag grossly incandescent?
I'm not sure that's what incandescent means
praise the sun
eh, whatever
3:38 PM
@Tinkeringbell hehe, my wife always try to teach me to not say "You're gross!" to our children, but rather "What you did is gross". ;)
my wife always try to teach me ... I take that as the teaching failed so far?
@rene of course
Tiger can wear a different skin, or something like that
Luckily for everyone, it's REALLY hard to gross me out. For example, my son eats whatever comes out his nose and I'm fine with that, for example. (wife much less so, so she has to work hard to follow her own advise.... ;))
