Wednesday, March 29, 2017


"Hunting" means chasing, driving, flushing, attracting, pursuing, worrying, following after on the trail of, shooting at, stalking, or lying in wait for, any wildlife whether or not such wildlife is then or subsequently captured, taken, or wounded. such term does not include stalking, attracting, searching for, or lying in wait for, any wildlife by an unarmed person solely for the purpose of watching wildlife or taking pictures thereof.

This is the paragraph J of Idaho title 36, 36-202 that anonymous referenced to in his comment on my Chukar country post. I'll let everyone decide what it reads to them. I'm glad you posted to show your disappointment that I am out while the birds are paired up. I got a feeling this post might show some excitement. Plus it gives me an opportunity to release a few of my feelings also.

I am pretty sure I know who anonymous (B.M.) is and am sorry you feel the way you do but that is what it is. I never did the name calling, your buddy did.

The fish and game has always had my blog site available since one of the members is a good friend of mine. I don't try to disguise what I do and in fact have had a member of the fish and game with me on my spring outings a few times. I doubt that they will contact me because they have much more constructive things to do with their limited time. That being said, I'll let the readers decide whether I'm doing wrong or not.

Now, to a little about my feelings about your feelings. Jake and I do no more harm to these pairing birds than any other creature in the hills. First off, once we point or jump a pair we're off to another part of the hill looking for our next bit of excitement. Those birds are free to fly back at anytime they wish. We pressure them no further. Your next point might be "how do I know they return?" This time of the year I don't know, but as they start nesting they will return. I know this from many cases of having one of my dogs point and then I flush a pair or a single and they don't fly very far. I then take my dog and sit back a hundred yards and watch until they return. Many times it takes an hour or two but usually when they return I find a nest, take a few pictures, and go on my way. Usually that time of the year is late May or early June but never this time of the year. I have even flagged the nest locations and gone back for several weeks so I know the approximate hatch date. Every nest I have ever watched has had a successful hatch but one. A predator had destroyed the eggs. I suggest that maybe you, I and a Fish and Game employee go on one of my hikes and see how much harassment of these birds I create. But as was suggested, I think the employer would have better things to do with his time. I am a very pro fish and game guy and would love their opinion.

If you are the person I think, you also listed several fish and game titles that forbid harassing big game animals on another site. I am all for not harassing big game animals any time whether they are wintering or not. But to shut down the hills to horn hunters or other recreationist is not the answer. Fish and Game does a very good job in advising people where to avoid game animals and problem areas. There is no need for a blanket statement like was provided by another group on closing the chukar season because of stressed animals. There were plenty of places to hunt where big game animals weren't even present. There was also the mention of chukars that were (I can't remember the word used)  starving. Well that definitely wasn't the case across the region. Also mentioned was the amount of road hunters seen when the deep snow came. I have yet to see a person shoot a chukar from the road. Maybe I don't spend enough time on the road. I think when the weather or any other condition arises, most hunters will use common sense in doing the right thing. They don't need it written out in titles and sub sections.

My third problem is about the guzzlers and the lack of help in maintaining them. You mention how chukar hunters benefit from guzzlers but I disagree. I would be glad to help if I really thought it would help the bird numbers but I don't. That doesn't make me any less of a conservationist than the guy maintaining it. I believe there is very little we can do to enhance chukar country. Mother Nature takes care of that. The guzzler you mentioned that got no help from any other organization was pictured on that other site. Look in the background at the lake. It's hard for me to imagine hunting any animals that is too lazy to walk or fly down to the reservoir. I know they provide good benefits in some areas, but I don't know of any area that I hunt that would benefit chukars. Maybe benefit the chukar hunters some. So, quit trying to guilt people into doing what you think is good. Maybe we don't see the same need.

This could even get longer but I don't want to lose everyone. Pretty much what I'm trying to get at is let people make common sense decisions. I know you have already said that my decision is illegal, but I believe my decision to pursue the birds this time of the year is both an ethical and legal decision. I'm not calling names, but if people like you keep finding a reason to keep others out of the hills, we might just as well turn the state into a big national park where you have to get permission to get off the paved path.

We often talk about how the we're losing youth participation in the outdoors. Wonder why? Conner, Jake and I just got back from a two day hike horn hunting and watching Jake traverse the hills. We had a ball and got some great pictures. We found some sheds and Jake was in pointer heaven. You can't find a more enthusiastic 14 year old anywhere about the outdoors. Why, because he gets to get out there and enjoy all the aspects of it without harming any of the future. He also has some common sense and knows when he's pressuring the resource or not. Take this away from him and we have one more couch potato.

Please give me a call and bring the Fish & Game by and will go out on one of my jaunts to see where the verdict lays. I would enjoy your company and maybe when we are through you might put down your law book and start enjoying the outdoors like you used to.


Chukarhunter50 said...

I have never met you, my mistake, but i knew i liked you from the blogs i read over the years. This one just secured that in cement. Keep doing what you enjoy and one day we will meet on the chukar hills of oregon, nevada, utah, or idaho and Thank you for this blog and teaching conner the right things about the outdoors.

Anonymous said...

Mr Szurgot. I feel the need to clarify a few things. Apparently you have me mixed up with someone else. I have followed your blog for sometime and never felt the need to comment until march 28th so I have never had any conversations about guzzlers,closing seasons or anything else with you. I mistakenly posted my comment on chukar country when it should have been posted on your feb 20th post (pairing birds and training.)No where in my comment will you see any objections from me about hiking, shed hunting, picture taking etc. I did not call the tip number and report you or anything like that, what I did do since Oregon is very clear on their rules (Oregon bird regs page 29) and Idaho is not I called idfg and ask what the law on training on wild birds is, they told me it was not legal. I also told them I wasn't trying to get anyone in trouble. They asked me for your information and I gave it to them. My reference to name calling was in regards to 2 comments made on this same post with which you seemed to agree. Sad adult sportsman can't have a difference of opinion without being called chicken little, not real dog people or cannon fodder. My first gun dog was an esp i got when I was 8 years old and other than the 3 years I spent in the us army during the Vietnam war era I have always had a gun dog. I would like to consider myself a real dog person not cannon fodder. Anyway my only intention was to let you know these laws. Many of the things you describe as happening when you are training are addressed in the first part of paragraph j, this comes under the definition of hunting and I have yet to see where hunting out of season is legal. Rather than you and I bicker over who's correct on their interpretation I suggest you contact an Idaho or Oregon (since you do state you have areas in Oregon you visit) enforcement officer and get their opinion, I know what Idaho told me. If you do this please post their response so we can all can put this behind us. Once again good hunting

larry szurgot said...

I understand what you are saying and know that everyone reads and interprets words differently. I don't think the chicken little thing was a name calling point but more like there are a lot of people who think the sky is falling at every little sign of trouble and than there are the guys like me that say the bad winter we just experienced doesn't mean the end of the world. But we do both have the right to express our concerns or lack thereof. I also appreciate your concerns on the chukars and assure you that I have also recently had a conversation with the idfg. The officer I spoke with gave me a little different answer than you got. I think maybe they say what they need to make this problem go away.

As far as Oregon, I can't tell you what they might say but I'm willing to also go with one of them to prove that what I do this time of the year has no effect on game bird survival or procreation. I personally believe that once out there, even though their rules might deem it illegal, they would use common sense and understand that it is just another form of entertainment for an outdoorsman with very little impact on our wildlife.

Trust me, I don't care to bicker about this subject. I think it would be silly. But I'm glad people can look at the rule and make their own interpretation. The main words in my opinion are common sense. Know that no one enjoys the outdoors and chukar hunting anymore than I do and if I thought for a moment I was harming next years broods I would stop, but there are many chukar studies and I have a few of my own that show what the birds are doing at this time of the year. There is a time to back off and that's not to far away, but until then I'll do as the fish and game officer advised "just keep doing what you are doing".

I'm sorry to assume you were someone else, but this person use to love the outdoors as much as I do but as he got older somehow he got political and quit enjoying the outdoors. That is also fine but I wish he would back off and let the rest of us enjoy it the way he did at one time.

Good hunting to you also and maybe we'll meet on the hill one day. If it's this time of the year you'll be able to tell who I am. I'll be the one with the big smile and snapping pictures as my grandson walks up on Jake's point and than assumes a shooting position as a grouse or chukar flushes.

Coonie said...

Aww, Mr. Anonymous is back tracking here. Earlier, he was braggin' and boastin' that he ratted you out to the fish/game fuzz. Now, he's posing as a whacked out 'nam vet and giving you the double talk.

Hmm, reeks of Quill...

All good for a laugh or three :)

Anonymous said...

Mr. Szurgot thank you for reply to my last post. You and I had a difference of opinions and without attacking one another's ethics or any name calling we were able to respectfully agree to disagree, I appreciate that, that's the way it should be. I understand you have no control over who comments or what they say but I find it sad people like gozagsfinalfour and coonies choose to take this away from what it was, a discussion between YOU and I about chukars, although they do help make my case about the name calling I spoke of earlier. This isn't what your blog is about and I truly believe they are the minority of your followers. I only mentioned my military service to address the three years of my adult life I was unable to have a gun dog and I really am not a deranged Vietnam vet, LOL, but I am very proud of my service to OUR country. Anyway what concerns me now is the conflicting information you and I received from idfg personel. We as sportsman are expected to know and obey the regulations and if they are creating a gray area that leaves all of us in a position of violating the law believing we were perfectly legal. I would like to ask you if you could find time could you provide me with the name and phone number of the idfg employee you spoke with as I would like to share my concerns with them. Thank you in advance and enjoy your weekend.

larry szurgot said...

I won't do that because they are both friends and neither of them deserve to be bothered with such a petty difference. I also have another friend who used to be in the enforcement part of the idfg. I won't give his name or number either. We go back a long ways and he was very short with his advice to me. It went something like this.

This kind of crap has been going on forever. Traditional archers can't get along with compound archers, Traditional muzzleloaders fight with the new wave of muzzle loaders, hound hunters fight with bear baiters, and the list goes on. Then the idfg gets drug into it and much of what ends up going on is doing what they can to quiet up the whiny humans and usually has no effect on wildlife.

He also said, if an enforcement officer was to ticket me, all that would happen is my attorney and the idfg attorney would make money and it would be thrown out of court at the cost of me. He suggest to me that I quit saying training dogs and saying we're watching wildlife and taking pictures. That is what a lawyer would say if in fact it went to court but meanwhile this lawyer would cost me for doing what I believe is perfectly legal.

Again, he also mentioned that you and I would do everyone a lot more favors by attacking the anti's and people who are trying to take our land from us.

I do this blog solely for enjoyment purposes. I'm not trying to be the big shot. I could care less if anyone acknowledges me for anything but having a great time in the mountains with my dog. I think we're the best, but I hope everyone else feels the same way about their relations with their canine partners. I don't want to show all the dead carcasses from the past winter, I would rather show the live animals that survived and will produce good enjoyment for us all in the future. I hope to keep people as excited about going into the mountains as I have always been, not scaring people with rules so they are afraid to get off the main path. There's enough of that without us hunters helping out.

With that I will let you and the others keep discussing this issue. The issue is dead with me and from now on I'll concentrate on watching wildlife and taking pictures thereof instead of training. I would ask of you and any other readers, let me know if I'm getting a little bit on the ego side. It is not my intentions. My intentions are to humor you with the great life that God has given me and hope that you too will also live your life with the enjoyment of the outdoors that I have and maybe pass on a few of the lessens the outdoors have given me.

larry szurgot said...

May not have to have a thing to do with chukar hunting but I'll bet Gonzagsfinalfour is a happy camper right now. Gonzaga is on to the finals.