Dreamer History

Fans of Max and Liz call themselves Dreamers, but do you know how it started?
Dreamers are actually divided on this.


Some of the original Max & Liz fans like to think they suggested the name to the writers. Others, like myself, believe the term dreamers, came out of the epidose 'Blind Date', when Max calls Liz his dream girl.

How is this discrepency possible?

On the Fanforum board back when Roswell first aired, Max and Liz fans started a thread to talk about their favorite couple. When 'Balance' aired, and Max took a step back, someone changed the name of the thread to - Waiting for Max & Liz's Dreamy reunion.

Then two months later when 'Blind Date' aired, and Max called Liz his dream girl, some of the Max & Liz fans thought that the writers must have read the thread and used the term 'dream girl' because of the title of the thread.

Possible? Well...
We all knew that Jason Katims and crew looked at the threads occasionally, he said so himself. So he could have seen the thread.

But, other dreamers, including myself, believe it is unlikely they took the term dream girl from the thread title.

Here's why.
Episodes were filmed weeks if not months in advance, and they were certainly written before the thread was posted.

Also, JK himself said that he never looked at the threads for story ideas, because of possible lawsuits, so it is unlikely he took the term 'dream girl' from a thread.

Now, years later, I own a copy of the 'Blind Date' script with a finished date of 12/18/99. The episode 'The Balance', where Max 'takes a step back' from Liz, aired 12/15/99. The Max & Liz reunion thread didn't go up until some time after the episode.

So unless the reunion thread went up in the next two days, and the writers looked at it and changed the script, then the term dream girl was already in the script before the thread was started.

So why am I including this bit of trivia? Just as history.

Some fans claim that they started calling themsleves dreamers because of the thread title before 'Blind Date' aired, and sure that is entirely possible. But the term Dreamer really didn't come into general use until a while after the episode.

The name Dreamgirls definately came from the episode, 'Blind Date', when Max called Liz his gream girl. After that, fans started calling themselves Dreamgirls and Dreamguys, and eventually it morphed into Dreamers, which became the official name that we still use today.


The Max/Liz thread was originally titled Cherishing Max and Liz..., and some of the fans called themselves Cherishers after the thread title.


On some of the smaller boards people came up with other names for the Max/Liz ship. One of them was Chemists.

The reference was from the episode 'Monsters' when Max and Liz were in Chemistry class together. They weren't together yet, but you could feel the chemistry between them. It was dropped when the term dreamer came into general use.

But the name Chemist resurfaced again when there were rumors that Jason and Shiri were dating, and then was used by fans of the on and off-screen chemistry between them.


Also used on a couple of smaller sites for Max and Liz fans was the term Strawberry or Strawberries.

The reference is from the epi 'Sexual Healing' the scene in the Crashdown with the strawberries.

Other M/L Ship names

I know there was another name for the Max/Liz ship on other sites too, but I can't remember it! If anyone remembers other ship names or the boards or sites other names were used on, please let me know.

Max/Liz was the first ship thread - ever

I recently found out that the Max and Liz ship thread was the very first ship thread on Fanforum.
Here is a quote from the Fanforum Admin.

Hi everyone! I don�t know if you all know this, but the Cherishing Max & Liz thread was the very first shipper thread in all of Fan Forum! I used to think the Dawson and Joey shipper thread on the Dawson�s Creek board was the very first shipper thread here, but the person who started that thread actually got the idea from this thread, so you Max and Liz fans (and I consider myself to be a Max and Liz fan) started a tradition of expressing your love and support for your favorite couple that has been copied on almost every board here, so bravo to all of you! I�m glad to see that so many people still post on this thread.
~Fan Forum Administrator Jerry D~

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