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About Jon
Thank You For Not ...

1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
8) making the same point over and over again
10) being annoyed by the existence of this list
11) commenting under the obvious influence

'Dodgertown, Arizona' Now Closer to Reality
2006-12-18 18:00
by Jon Weisman

An update to the Dodgers proposed Spring Training move from Florida to Arizona: Today, the Arizona Sports and Tourism Authority said it would fund the new stadium for the Dodgers and Chicago White Sox in Glendale (in addition to partially funding one in Goodyear for the Cleveland Indians), according to Carrie Watters of the Arizona Republic:

Previous sports authority forecasts of limited finances had pitted the two West Valley cities against one another, with dueling bids for public funding.

Details are limited as deals still are under negotiation, but the sports authority is expected to act at a board meeting on Thursday. ...

[Larry Landry, chairman of the sports authority board] said funding both would not stretch the sports authority too thin, although "this will completely deplete our bank (for new spring training stadiums)."

And no, it won't be called Dodgertown, unless the White Sox are way more accomodating than I suspect.

Previously: "Pending Financing, Dodgertown Recedes into History"

Comments (144)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2006-12-18 18:05:45
1.   Vishal
...when would the move take effect? 2008? 2009?
2006-12-18 18:06:16
2.   trainwreck
I may be going to spring training down in Arizona to see the A's.

To continue the Stanford talk, Chow did not want it.

I like Harbaugh not just because he was a good player, but because he was the Raiders QB coach, when San Diego hired him. My cousin's father is/was? the San Diego AD.

2006-12-18 18:07:53
3.   trainwreck
I found a Big Lebowski shirt with a picture of Walter that says I don't roll on Shabbas.
2006-12-18 18:08:50
4.   Sam DC
RIP Joe Barbara. My son's greatest forbidden (but occasionally allowed) vice is Tom and Jerry. He saw it at a doctor's office (seeding for new patients?) and really can't get enough.

Who wouldn't want to see a cat's tail severed by a buzz saw and then cauterized by burning acid and then exploded with a huge pile of TNT? It's family entertainment.

2006-12-18 18:22:47
5.   Greg Brock
They'll always be known for Tom N Jerry, Flinstones, etc.
I will remember the Laff-a-lympics

The Really Rottens could never pull it off.

2006-12-18 18:25:52
6.   dzzrtRatt
Given that the tenants of this new facility are the teams that played in the fabled '59 series, maybe they should call it, oh, something like Sherry-Aparicio.

I'm sure there's a funnier execution of this idea in there somewhere.

2006-12-18 18:27:49
7.   Bob Timmermann
The new spring training complex will be called "1959 Land."

There will be a continuously playing soundtrack of the big hits of 1959:
"Mack the Knife" by Bobby Darin
"Venus" by Frankie Avalon
"The Happy Organ" by Dave "Baby" Cortez
"Charlie Brown" by the Coasters.

The only movie that you can see will be "Ben-Hur."

2006-12-18 18:30:31
8.   Greg Brock
They could call it the Fairly-Goodman Sports complex
2006-12-18 18:31:43
9.   Greg Brock
Bob's not a Billy Wilder fan.
2006-12-18 18:33:55
10.   Bob Timmermann
There have been just seven players who have played for just the Dodgers and White Sox and no other teams in their careers:

Henry Cruz
Red Evans
Phil Gallivan
Ray Phelps
John Russell (played around WWI)
Elmer Stricklett
Kelly Wunsch

2006-12-18 18:35:38
11.   Bob Timmermann
I better not talk any more about movies.

But I like Billy Wilder.

2006-12-18 18:35:53
12.   trainwreck
Clearly, it must be called Dan Evans Town.
2006-12-18 18:52:07
13.   Vishal
true. since we'll be sharing it with the sox, it won't really be "dodgertown", will it... more like, i dunno, splitsville.
2006-12-18 18:57:47
14.   invisibleman
I love the idea of having the dodgers train a half hour from my house, but using public monies to siphon a team (CHW in Tucson) from another city in the same state is surely not the way to make this happen.

I guess I'm conflicted over my love of the dodgers and the city where I went to college.

2006-12-18 19:12:44
15.   ToyCannon
I once saw Henry Cruz hit two home runs in a game. No big deal you say until you realize they were about the only home runs he ever hit. I think they were both fly balls just inside the RF foul pole.
2006-12-18 19:18:43
16.   Bob Timmermann
Henry Cruz hit 8 home runs in his career, four each with the Dodgers and White Sox.

His grand day out:

2006-12-18 19:34:08
17.   Eric Enders
7 Bob apparently is not a big Marty Robbins fan.
2006-12-18 19:40:52
18.   Bob Timmermann
My list was not intended to be comprehensive.

I would have written more but this girl named Feleena kept whirling and distracting me.

2006-12-18 20:32:38
19.   dzzrtRatt
I get the feeling this thread is not going to break 50 unless Ned pulls the trigger on the ManRam trade. There's just not that much to say about an Arizona land-use deal. Especially compared with hot dogs.

Maybe one of the attorneys who posts here could submit a FOIA request to the Arizona Sports and Tourism Authority, analyze the deal points, and figure out whose pockets are getting lined by this transaction. Til then, maybe I'll see what's happening at Screen Jam.

2006-12-18 20:34:04
20.   El Lay Dave
7 8 Indicative of the split-personality nature of the shared complex, how about Richie/Dick Allen Fields? Or name it after the famous owners "O'Malley - Veeck"?

From other thread: I was -1 years old for the '59 Series, so I have no memories of Larry Sherry, but I have heard Vin weave a Sherry story or two over the years. I do remember Pete Mikkelsen though, a sidearmer who'd make decent dough now in middle relief, eh? RIP both. (In 1960, Sherry started only 3 games, but appeared in 57 and had 24 decisions; he was 14-10.)

2006-12-18 20:37:46
21.   El Lay Dave
As for hot dogs, I see Cupid's is not listed. Isn't this more of a "Best Designer Pizza" or "Most Chic, Overpriced Bar" kind of town anyway?
2006-12-18 20:42:47
22.   El Lay Dave
20 I'm guessing McCourt's pockets are one set. I've never traveled to Florida for Spring Training - too far, too humid - but I might consider Arizona. To me, from a selfish fan perspective, that's the most interesting part of the idea. I understand the history of Vero Beach, Dodgertown and all that, but nothing's permanent. (BTW, isn't L.A. Dodger history all about land grabs?)
2006-12-18 20:53:03
23.   dzzrtRatt
22 BTW, isn't L.A. Dodger history all about land grabs?

No. Los Angeles history is all about land grabs. The Dodgers were just one of the beneficiaries, and they weren't the original intended beneficiary. However, because of the glitch in the housing project LA planned for Chavez Ravine, some people were still living there as construction was due to begin. They got yanked out by cops and the bulldozers followed.

There's a lot more to the story, including a Red Scare angle. But I don't think it's fair to say the Dodgers did anything wrong here.

2006-12-18 21:03:33
24.   twerp
Don't know if anyone's out there to read this, but Gurnick has some interesting stuff in his latest mailbag, especially Re Gagne.

Including this:

"A former teammate of Gagne's told me this week, "Gagne's loyalty was to his teammates, not to the organization or the fans. And if you look at the Dodgers' roster as it currently sits, those aren't his teammates. He hasn't played with most of them."

"Fans remember well Gagne's 2003 Cy Young season. Guess how many current Dodgers were on that club? The answer is none. The owner, general manager, field manager and coaching staff? They're all gone. When Paul DePodesta dismantled the 2004 division champs, in my opinion, it broke the spirit of those left behind."

{lobs this grenade, posts URL, sneaks out door}

2006-12-18 21:17:49
25.   Disabled List
The hot dog thread was not complete without mention of Cupid's and Tommy's.

Just wanted to get that in.

2006-12-18 21:19:59
26.   StolenMonkey86
11 - But I will.

You forgot Sleeping Beauty.

2006-12-18 21:22:06
27.   Charenton
All Blues by Miles Davis is from 1959
(and if I'm not mistaken, Russell Martin's middle name comes from the Tenor Saxophonist on that recording)
Not just any Dodger catcher…
Not just any Tenor Saxophonist…
also Ornette Coleman's Lonely Woman is from 1959(May 22nd to be exact and recorded in L.A. ! ), but I wouldn't want to push the envelope too far…
2006-12-18 21:28:08
28.   gpellamjr
24 I now hate Depodesta. It's easier that way.
2006-12-18 21:29:58
29.   Xeifrank
BrewCrewBall has a funny post (a few entries down on the screen) about replacing bad pitchers on the Brewers with a tee and how successfully it would work assuming that the tee would be unable to strike anybody out (except perhaps Adam Dunn) and wouldn't give up any HRs. It's a funny read.
vr, Xei
2006-12-18 21:33:52
30.   Charenton
I remember being very confused as a kid regarding the Richie/Dick Allen name change. Didn't he spend one season in LA('72 or '73 ?) as Richie before going to the ChiSox where all of a sudden he was known as Dick(and he was with StL where he was also known as Richie before coming to LA ?).

I remember wondering if they would have won the '74 WSeries against the A's if he had stayed a Dodger.

Was that the trade that brought Tommy John from the ChiSox to the Dodgers ?

2006-12-18 21:37:46
31.   Daniel Zappala
Biggest news of the night is that Stanford has hired Jim Harbaugh away from UCSD to coach their football team. Good luck, Jim.
2006-12-18 21:44:32
32.   A Slo
31-That would be USD. UCSD, my alma mater, remains undefeated in football for many years now but surprisingly no one wants to hire away their coach.
2006-12-18 21:45:45
33.   Andrew Shimmin
Kind of Blue, right? Maybe the best selling Jazz album, ever. Also, Mingus's Ah Um (one of my favorites) was released that year.
2006-12-18 21:46:06
34.   Daniel Zappala
Whoops, my bad, I meant USD.
2006-12-18 21:48:53
35.   Andrew Shimmin
33- (by way of 27, which I neglected to reference) Oh, I see. You were doing tracks. Oops.
2006-12-18 21:52:06
36.   Midwest Blue
25 I agreed with your Tommy's comment after you posted. But that's as far as I go, seeing as how I now live in Chicago, otherwise known as Hot Dog Heaven (Don't ask for ketchup on that!)
2006-12-18 21:54:24
37.   Bob Timmermann
The trade of Dick Allen brought Tommy John to the Dodgers. If Allen had still been on the Dodgers in 1974, the team would have been a lot different. Where would he have played? He played LF and 3B mostly for the Dodgers and some games at first? By 1974, he was almost exclusively a first baseman.

If Allen was still around in 1974, the Dodgers would have traded Garvey or Cey since they wouldn't have had a place to play.

There was the bigger problem that Allen and Alston didn't exactly get along. At all.

2006-12-18 21:55:04
38.   El Lay Dave
30 My recollection is that he was Richie in Philly, St. Louis and L.A., then Dick for the Chisox on. And yes, it was the Tommie John trade. (With Garvey at 1B, where would Richie/Dick have played for the '74 Dodgers?)

2 31 Good hire for Stanford, I think. You'd think Norm Chow would already be a head coach - he's 60 right? - by now if he was destined to be one. Perhaps he's an awful interview?

2006-12-18 22:00:05
39.   regfairfield
24 Good thing there wasn't anyone left to be disgruntled.

I don't particulary want to research this, but who blew up the Dodgers faster, DePo or Ned?

2006-12-18 22:00:31
40.   Linkmeister
I'd never heard of Hot Dog on a Stick, but you guys made me curious, so I looked 'em up on the Google and learned that they're very proud of being an employee-owned company.

Hmm. If the employees own the place, then the uniforms must be at least somewhat self-chosen, no?

2006-12-18 22:01:21
41.   Disabled List
36 It's the giant pickle spears and tomato wedges that ruin the Chicago-style dog for me. The only vegetables I want on my hot dog are are relish and onions.

Gimme a Tommy's hot dog with extra chili any day of the week.

2006-12-18 22:01:33
42.   Andrew Shimmin
When the revolution comes, ketchup will be outlawed. Everything is worse with ketchup on it: hot dogs, fries, rectal abscesses. . . absolutely everything.
2006-12-18 22:01:35
43.   El Lay Dave
37 Beaten to the punch by thirty seconds. He was a terrible 3B - how many more errors would he have had without Wes Parker at first? When they tried Pedro Guerrero there I had flashbacks to Richie Allen. Didn't he have a mysterious right wrist injury at one point - something about putting his hand through a headlight while trying to push his car? How suspicious would we be of that today?
2006-12-18 22:03:26
44.   El Lay Dave
The best vegetable for hot dogs is sauerkraut, hands down.
2006-12-18 22:05:55
45.   Steve
The heresies just keep on coming.
2006-12-18 22:06:43
46.   Steve
By the way, I realize that the next 50 posts might be about ketchup, but if you stop to think about it, does an idiot like Ken Gurnick really deserve the next 50 posts over a topic like ketchup? And there you go.
2006-12-18 22:08:07
47.   Disabled List
I'll bet Ken Gurnick likes sauerkraut and ketchup on his Dodger Dogs.
2006-12-18 22:09:39
48.   Bob Timmermann
Allen was treated brutally by Phillies fans despite being their best player. He could never do the right thing for them, some of which was his fault, but a lot of it wasn't. One way Allen tried to cope with the pressure was by drinking.

That doesn't help much for a pro athlete.

2006-12-18 22:17:58
49.   Suffering Bruin
(Drinking) doesn't help much for a pro athlete. But what about new teachers? Does it help new teachers??

Pink's remains for me very overrated.
And I thought I was the only one. I knew I liked this guy...

2006-12-18 22:22:11
50.   Suffering Bruin
(Drinking) doesn't help much for a pro athlete. But what about new teachers? Does it work for new teachers??

Pink's remains for me very overrated.
As far as I know, you and I are in a club of two. And we're both right, by the by.

Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2006-12-18 22:22:34
51.   Suffering Bruin
2006-12-18 22:29:07
52.   Eric L
50 Back at the start of the year, we had a minimum day for homecoming. Our kids (special ed) tend to get thrown off a bit when there is a change in schedule.

Even though we only had them for 40 minutes a period that day, they got to me pretty bad. I decided that I needed a beer or 3 when I got home.

2006-12-18 22:38:57
53.   dzzrtRatt
I dunno, I don't put ketchup on my hotdog, but sometimes I inherit half of one from a niece who likes ketchup and, I have to admit, it tastes pretty good if it's applied sparingly.

I read somewhere that ketchup was invented in England as a taste-killer to make gross but nutritious stuff like mutton and organ meats tolerable. The combination of flavors that make up ketchup cover some kind of flavor-bud spectrum so that the taste of whatever you've put it on is blotted out.

2006-12-18 22:43:43
54.   Eric L
53 I must admit, I like ketchup on my hot dogs and hash browns (mixed with tabasco).
2006-12-18 22:45:36
55.   trainwreck
I have never had a hot dog with any kind of vegetable on it. Frankly, hot dogs do not take up much of my diet.
2006-12-18 22:48:32
56.   Andrew Shimmin
I would sooner eat half a hotdog that had fallen in a cat box than one with ketchup on it.
2006-12-18 22:51:09
57.   Eric L
56 I use ketchup sparingly in my life, but man, my fiance puts it on sandwiches (turkey, roast beef, salami, etc) like there was no tomorrow.

I would like to say that hot dogs aren't a major staple in my life, but when .50 Fridays hit in San Bernardino during the minor league season, they taste really good after downing a couple of $2 beers.

2006-12-18 22:52:59
58.   xaphor
I'd avoid Universal Studios December 30th:

53. Wouldn't surprise me, but HP is my palate killing sauce of choice. Too bad there are no hot dog joints around that will serve a traditional English banger butty (buns are a frivolous luxury where I come from :).

I do patron the Stand which has a charming patio reminiscent of a small pub garden. I'm partial to their BBQ bacon dog. Bacon, Dog, Mmmmmm...

2006-12-18 22:57:52
59.   Bob Timmermann
I would prefer 50 posts about catsup.
2006-12-18 22:58:55
60.   ToyCannon
[42 Everything is worse with ketchup on it: hot dogs, fries, rectal abscesses. . ]

Is that being edgy?

2006-12-18 22:59:28
61.   Bob Timmermann
Some of us have avoided Universal Studios since 1977.
2006-12-18 23:00:51
62.   bhsportsguy
60 Still thinking about Luke Hochevar.
2006-12-18 23:01:28
63.   trainwreck
I have ketchup on burgers (unless its a mushroom swiss) and hot dogs. That is the extent of my ketchup use. I never understood how people put so much ketchup on fries, because you cannot even taste the fry.
2006-12-18 23:01:33
64.   Andrew Shimmin
57- My sister's like that. Any sort of potato, parsnips(!), the works. When we eat together, I always try to adjust the centerpiece so that I can't see her plate.

I haven't had a hotdog in I can't remember how long, so, this is big talk/no walk on my part.

As chilly as it's been, I've been on a bit of a soup kick. I think I could live happily on nothing but Hot and Sour soup.

2006-12-18 23:05:08
65.   xaphor
61. I was intrigued and had to look it up. Seems like Bob's commitment to the time is money philosophy has deep roots as '77 was the last year in which all of the attractions at Universal were reached via the tram.

Kudos Bob.

2006-12-18 23:06:48
66.   bhsportsguy
61 Last time I visited So Cal attractions:

1. Disneyland - 1999
2. Universal Studios - 1999
3. Knott's Berry Farm - Park, has to be the '70s, Chicken Restaurant - 2003
4. Magic Mountain - First year Colussus opened.
5. San Diego Zoo - 2003
6. Sea World - 1970's

Attractions no longer around, Lion Country Safari, Marineland, Japanese Deer Park, Alligator Farm, and Movieland Wax Museum, I visited during the mid-1970's and early 80's.

2006-12-18 23:08:04
67.   dzzrtRatt
63 The most disgusting thing in my life is having to watch my son eat french fries with ketchup. He makes this big puddle? pile? of it, dips the fry into it, takes a bite, then dips the same fry again and again til it's gone, repeat about 30 times. What's worse is he mostly does this in public places. He completely embarasses me when we eat out together, so much so that sometimes I insist he not order them.
2006-12-18 23:10:36
68.   Andrew Shimmin
60- Didn't mean to offend. I'm pretty sure I'm right (rectal abscesses really wouldn't be any better with ketchup), but it's not a very pleasant image.
2006-12-18 23:12:45
69.   xaphor
67. A friend's kids insist on have a ketchup and ranch dressing mix for their dipping pleasure. It makes the French and their mayonnaise fetish seem normal.
2006-12-18 23:18:03
70.   Andrew Shimmin
Nothing makes a mayonnaise fetish seem normal. My antipathy to ketchup doesn't hold a candle to my, out and out, abhorrence of mayonnaise. Mayonnaise is like [choose your own gory simile].
2006-12-18 23:34:58
71.   Bob Timmermann
The UC Regents aren't going to name chancellor of UCLA.

That stinks.

Some guy from UVA instead.

2006-12-18 23:41:50
72.   paranoidandroid
Season Ticket renewal:

Not sure what Jon's rules are about this so I will ask him or the forum before I'd post any details or such. I have two seats in the top deck, nothing really special, but they are inexpensive and guarantee post season tickets if we get to that point. They are right behind home and are in the shade on day games.

Anyway, I won't use all of them and will be looking for some partners to share. Is this an appropriate forum to post more specific info? I understand if it isn't, just wondering. Tickets jumped to $4 a seat from $3 a seat last year. Someone has to pay Pierre to slap the ball to third.

2006-12-18 23:48:54
73.   xaphor
If I suggested unofficially calling the spring training facility Whigertown would I be pelted to death with small rocks?
2006-12-18 23:57:00
74.   Bob Timmermann
Whigertown sounds like a place that should have a statue of Henry Clay or William Gladstone in front of it.
2006-12-19 00:01:18
75.   Eric Enders
Last time I visited So Cal attractions:

1. Disneyland - 1987
2. Universal Studios - never
3. Knott's Berry Farm - never
4. Magic Mountain - never
5. San Diego Zoo - 1986
6. Sea World - 1986
7. Dodger Stadium - 1987

I've been to 48 other states since the last time I was in Southern California. I've seen the Dodgers play on the road, oh, maybe 60 times since the last time I saw them play at home. Guess maybe I need to get out there soon.

2006-12-19 00:02:14
76.   Andrew Shimmin
72- I'm sure Jon wouldn't mind if you posted an email address. DT got a mention in Slate because the writer arranged a ticket sharing plan with another DTer.

He (Neal Pollack) has a new book coming out soon.

2006-12-19 00:18:29
77.   paranoidandroid
Thanks Andrew. I'll wait until tomorrow in the event that Jon or others weigh in just to be sure to not ruffle any feathers. I enjoy reading this blog and posting a bit too, would hate to get on anyone's nerves by appearing to be trying to sell things when that isn't my deal in life. I really just want a partner or two or even three to split up some seats before the season starts.
2006-12-19 00:31:40
78.   Vishal
ketchup is good in small doses. a little goes a long way.

mustard completely owns ketchup.

2006-12-19 00:33:32
79.   Vishal
[75] i feel bad for you, man. i miss LA so much, especially after the LA eatery talk, and looking at the cityguide "best of" lists.
2006-12-19 00:37:12
80.   Vishal
[67] it embarrasses you that he eats his fries with ketchup??

i don't know what social circles you run around in but i am positive that 99% of his fellow americans wouldn't bat an eyelash at that.

2006-12-19 00:49:20
81.   Andrew Shimmin
dzzrtRatt: Did...did you just double-dip that [fry]?

GEORGE: Excuse me?

dzzrtRatt: You double-dipped the [fry]!


dzzrtRatt: You dipped the [fry]. You took a bite. And you dipped again.

GEORGE: So...?

dzzrtRatt: That's like putting your whole mouth right in the [ketchup]! From now on, when you take a [fry] - just take one dip and end it!

2006-12-19 00:51:52
82.   dzzrtRatt
It's the way he dips-takes a bite-dips the same fry again-takes a bite so that what really seems to be happening is he's using the fries to shovel globs of ketchup into his mouth; while at the same time depositing a sort of ketchup-fry backwash into the ketchup mound. Within seconds, there are flecks of ketchup all over his face and hands.

It's not that he merely eats fries with ketchup. You're right, that's a very common combination. It's more like he is having a three-way with the ketchup and the fries.

It's especially nasty when his fingernails are dirty. Then he looks like some kind of homeless ketchup-a-holic.

Don't get me wrong. I love my son with all my heart. This is probably all my fault. I've failed in teaching him manners when it comes to ketchup and fries.

2006-12-19 00:54:34
83.   dzzrtRatt
81 Exactly. Except in Seinfeld, the guy playing me was concerned about everyone else's health. My son eats all his fries himself, and it still seems unsanitary.
2006-12-19 00:56:51
84.   Greg Brock
Sons who love ketchup, and the fathers who hate them.

On the next Maury.

2006-12-19 00:57:31
85.   Greg Brock
I'm sure your son is a wonderful kid. The boy just loves his ketchup.
2006-12-19 01:02:08
86.   Andrew Shimmin
84- That's way to normal. Unless the whole threesome thing wasn't just a figure of speech, no way does it compete with this:

2006-12-19 01:09:35
87.   Greg Brock
There is no way that is real.
Still hilarious.

"Bring out the peaches!"

2006-12-19 01:20:23
88.   trainwreck
I think Dr. Freud would know why he is afraid of peaches.
2006-12-19 01:24:39
89.   dzzrtRatt
That video makes me think of the slogan: "I cried because I had no shoes until I met a man who had no feet." I will never again complain about my son's ketchup obsession. How would you like to be that guy's Dad?

For that matter, how would you like to be Maury Povich's dad?

2006-12-19 01:27:15
90.   trainwreck
Jenna Fischer of the Office, is on Craig Ferguson.
2006-12-19 01:27:42
91.   trainwreck
And she is showing off the goods.
2006-12-19 01:29:31
92.   Greg Brock
Son: Dad, I have a phobia

Dad: It's okay son, we all have fears

Son: I'm afraid of peaches

Dad: Kill yourself

2006-12-19 01:31:12
93.   trainwreck
I did not know she was married to James Gunn.
2006-12-19 01:31:18
94.   Greg Brock
Wow, Jenna looks racktacular.
2006-12-19 01:33:50
95.   trainwreck
She was on for like five seconds! Come on!
2006-12-19 03:38:26
96.   Vishal
okay, so he sops up the ketchup with his fries to maximize the ketchup intake, and he double dips. if it's his own glob of ketchup, and he's not fouling anyone else's with his double dipping, what's wrong with letting him do as he pleases? obviously it'd be nice and rather more polite and genteel if he didn't get it all over himself in the process, but i maintain there isn't anything wrong with double dipping in your own ketchup, or eating a lot of it if that's what you like.
2006-12-19 03:53:33
97.   D4P
Andrew is taking his hatred of John Kerry to a ridiculous extreme
2006-12-19 03:55:46
98.   Vishal
[86] i'm guessing this isn't that guy's favorite song:
2006-12-19 06:37:15
99.   dagwich
Horriby late to the hot dog thread but the Costco option is a wonderful value: $1.50 for a long kosher dog + a drink.

From my youth I remember "Tail O the Pup" -- it has been an LA icon since forever -- is it gone? Or just serves bad dogs?

Top Dog in Berkeley (I forget who mentioned it in the previous thread) brings back some great memories! It was my version of "Cheers" where I watched the 6 o'clock news and Watergate hearings.

For the record, I am anti-catsup. I guess I'm out of step with the American people.

2006-12-19 06:53:56
100.   Jon Weisman
72 - No problem.

Boy, talk about overreactions on the ketchup front. It's as if users of all other condiments apply just the right amount, but ketchup is only used in huge vats. The idea that ketchup drowns out the taste of a food but mustard just lets it shine through doesn't make sense, seeing as any decent mustard has the more distinctive taste.

I don't always put ketchup on my hot dogs, hamburgers or fries, but when I do, it's an accent not a detriment.

Dodger Thoughts does not endorse the Great Ketchup Slander of 2006. There's room for all condiments in this great big world of ours.

Although I could do without mayonnaise.

Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2006-12-19 07:16:06
101.   dagwich
100 Mayo -- falls in with the class of foods known as "goopy white stuff" that (along with catsup or is it ketchup) that I mostly avoid. Mayonnaise to me will always be associated with Diane Keaton as Annie Hall ordering pastrami on white bread with mayo....the reaction of Woody Allen may be the single funniest moment in a Woody Allen movie.

My wife cancels my catsup vote -- she loves it. The only time I can remember using catsup is when I get ahold of a bad veggie burger and I try to bury the taste, and when I make borscht -- it really makes it better,somehow.

2006-12-19 07:16:49
102.   Marty
I'll put up with the disdain for ketchup. After all, it can't even figure out how to spell its own name. But I put my foot down when it comes to dissing mayonnaise.

Mayonnaise is the only evidence I've seen that there may be a God.

2006-12-19 07:19:11
103.   Marty
A friend relates a story about how he grew up having nothing but Miracle Whip on his sandwiches. When he got to college he had his first sandwich with mayo. He said he pulled the waitress aside and asked "what is this wonderful thing on my sandwich?"
2006-12-19 07:32:02
104.   dagwich
Back in the 80s it was possible to go standby from JFK to Brussels on Tower Air for $99 each way. I did that, landed and took a bus of some sort to the Gran Place, the big plaza in the middle of town. I was starving. There was a stall selling some beautiful pomme frites right there, and I bought some. Speaking no French or Flemish (even my English is not really all that good) I didn't understand when she asked if I wanted "sauce", but I said yes. She put a huge glop of mayo on these beautiful fries, wrapped up in newspaper. I was so hungry I ate them, working hard to avoid the "sauce". Marty, you would have seen God.
2006-12-19 07:57:27
105.   Xeifrank
If hotdogs were meant to have ketchup pigs would come with it. If salad was meant to have dressing, lettuce would grow the dressing naturally. If hamburgers were meant to have pickles, the beef would come with them. If Juan Pierre were meant to be a Dodger outfielder, his name would be Jason. It's not ... and ... they don't.
vr, Xei
2006-12-19 08:10:28
106.   D4P


2006-12-19 08:27:55
107.   Disabled List
I can certainly understand the disdain for mayo. That's an acquired taste. But ketchup is a staple condiment; I can't imagine french fries without it. It's perfectly acceptable on hamburgers and hot dogs too, people. It's when you see people putting it on chicken, steak, turkey, or cold cuts (like my young sister likes to do), that's when use of the Heinz has gone overboard.

104 As coincidence would have it, I had Belgian-style pomme frites just last night. My dipping sauces of choice were curry ketchup, horseradish mayo, and chipotle mayo. Yum.

2006-12-19 08:28:59
108.   Eric Enders
46 Steve
"By the way, I realize that the next 50 posts might be about ketchup, but..."

Always bet the over.

Being a non-ketchup eater, if this goes on long enough I may have to become the Xeifrank of ketchup talk!


2006-12-19 08:31:31
109.   Marty
107 Were you at Oinkster in Eagle Rock last night?
2006-12-19 08:34:00
110.   Dark Horse
Not to travel too far off-topic or anything, but has it been observed yet that Jayson Werth is, apparently, set to become a Phillie?

2006-12-19 08:39:00
111.   ToyCannon
Smart move, glad to see his agent was smart enough not to see him kill his value by going to the killing fields of Petco for RHH.
2006-12-19 08:39:02
112.   das411
110 - I just logged in to post that! Good low-risk move for the Phils, who need all the OF depth they can get.

Now I will have to settle for saying "Ketchup = awesome. Especially in those little paper cup things at MCDONALDS!!"

2006-12-19 08:40:31
113.   Purple Hippopotamus
66 - What about Santa's Village?
2006-12-19 08:43:31
114.   Marty
I went to Santa's Village by Arrowhead when I was 8 or so.
2006-12-19 08:52:32
115.   Jason in Canada
Wow, I bet some people, some where are twitching on the floor over a whole thread devoted to ketchup and mayo. And not once a debate whether it is spelled "ketchup" or "Catsup"...

By the way, some from the anti-ketchup/catsup party might want to avoid this place.

2006-12-19 08:52:57
116.   dagwich
107 Horseradish is highly underrated as a condiment. I add it to lots of foods.

I've wasted my budgeted DT time on condiments, I can't believe it.

But I am reminded to watch Annie Hall again, always a good thing.

2006-12-19 08:55:30
117.   D4P
Gurnick's take on the 2007 lineup:

Juan Pierre, CF;
Martin, C;
Rafael Furcal, SS;
Jeff Kent, 2B;
Nomar Garciaparra, 1B;
Luis Gonzalez, LF;
Wilson Betemit, 3B;
Ethier, RF.

I'm not sure which is worse: Juan Pierre hitting first or Rafael Furcal hitting third. Actually, I guess Pierre hitting first is worse, but still...

And another thing: is it really wise to count on a catcher to hit second in the lineup and play almost everyday? That seems like a recipe for a short career...

2006-12-19 08:56:45
118.   Bob Timmermann
Condiments are put on hot dogs. Hot dogs are eaten at baseball games.


AS for ketchup/catsup, I tried in 59, but I got no nibbles.

2006-12-19 08:58:46
119.   JoeyP
I had this really weird dream last nite and here's how it went:

I was in St. Louis, and was trying out for the Cardinals. Tony LaRussa asked me what kind of player I was, and I told him I walked a lot, hit for power, and also struck out a lot. All the players got on the bus and we travel to some field for an intrasquad scrimmage. However, I quickly realized that I wasnt in the game, but rather on the sidelines. I hadnt been picked. It turns out, that LaRussa benched both me and Aaron Miles. I figured I probably wouldnt be making the team. Then I woke up.

2006-12-19 08:59:02
120.   Bob Timmermann

Paul Lo Duca bats second. Ivan Rodriguez has batted in the #2 hole more than any other.

2006-12-19 09:01:10
121.   D4P
Maybe it's more of a recipe for 2nd half slumps...
2006-12-19 09:02:48
122.   Andrew Shimmin
119- Had you eaten any ketchup, before going to bed? Ketchup can give you nightmares. Ketchup is actually a mild hallucinogen; that's why people think they like it. It's a vicious cycle!
2006-12-19 09:05:36
123.   Gen3Blue
So when do they move to "City of windy angels" Stadium?
2006-12-19 09:06:08
124.   D4P

Kinda like how McDonald's puts sugar in their freedom fries. Come to think of it, kinda like how McDonald's puts sugar in everything.

2006-12-19 09:08:55
125.   50 years a Dodger Fan
I remember reading somewhere that several centuries ago the Chinese were exporting to Europe a sauce called "katsiup". It was probably more like kimchee than the catsup (ketchup) it morphed into when we started making it ourselves. That is more a story of the derivation of the name than the product itself. You catsup haters have a hard row to hoe; they probably sell more of that in this country than all other condiments combined. I don't eat it on anything but hot dogs now but it was much bigger in my diet when I was a teenager. I even ate catsup sandwiches. Most people like it because it has a very high sugar content. Now I dip my French fries in sour cream. Hey, it works for baked potatoes, why not French fries?
2006-12-19 09:09:14
126.   Marty
Anyone hear any more on the Drew situation?
2006-12-19 09:10:58
127.   50 years a Dodger Fan
117 Ethier is going to get a ton of walks. .400 OBP?
2006-12-19 09:11:59
128.   D4P
Ethier is going to get a ton of walks

That's fine, as long as he doesn't try to get them...

2006-12-19 09:17:09
129.   El Lay Dave
Let's see if Jayson Werth can pass his physical. "Werth told the State Journal-Register of Springfield, Ill., that he still has some soreness in the wrist..." Hmmmm.... Good risk on both sides really. How many more years does Jeff Conine really have?

Last I heard, J.D. and Boston are still haranguing over shoulder-gate.

2006-12-19 09:19:29
130.   JoeyP
122--Actually I had.
Also, the last thing I saw before going to sleep last nite was Jenna Fischer on the Late Late Show.

But then I dreamt of baseball.....

Would have been different had Rashida Jones been on ;)

2006-12-19 09:20:53
131.   El Lay Dave
We hosted a Belgian exchange student a couple years ago and were appalled (all right, just bemused) by her eating of fries with mayonnaise. I have completely sworn off mayo, except for a thin layer on the toast of a BLT. Ketchup/Catsup is for light use on hamburgers only.

French Fries should be enjoyed lightly salted with nothing else. If you have to drown it in a condiment, you're just trying to hide the low-quality frying oil.

2006-12-19 09:22:53
132.   Jon Weisman
126 - The Boston Globe had an update today.

New post coming up top.

2006-12-19 09:23:16
133.   Marty
Holiday fundraiser update:

Ok, we finally made it to the magic $200 mark. I will match that amount post-haste. Many thanks to these fine contributors:


Hopefully, I got the names right. You people are the best. This is a great community.

2006-12-19 09:23:23
134.   Xeifrank
119. That wasn't a dream!! You're name is Rick Ankiel. Nice to meet you Rick, welcome to DT. vr, Xei
2006-12-19 09:24:47
135.   El Lay Dave
A brief history of ketchup vs. catsup:
2006-12-19 09:28:58
136.   Disabled List
109 Negative, I live in NYC. Never heard of the Oinkster, but if they serve good Belgian fries, I'll check it out next time I'm in Eagle Rock.
2006-12-19 09:30:08
137.   Jon Weisman
133 - You guys are terrific. Thanks so much.
2006-12-19 09:43:10
138.   thinkingblue
Again, I really want to like Sarah's articles on the dodgers, but it looks like she's taking journalist lessons from Bill Plaschke:

Though many Dodgers fans believe Gonzalez is the elusive power hitter that Ned Colletti has looked for the entire offseason, I don't. Gonzalez is better viewed as a replacement for J.D. Drew. He will benefit the Dodgers by being an adequate left-handed hitter with some power and a leader in the clubhouse.

Huh? Who thought Luis would be that power hitter?

In 150 games last year, he didn't make an error.

And errors are the perfect judge of defense huh?

Though Gonzalez hit only 15 home runs in 2006, he had 24 home runs in 2005. In 2001, he hit 57 home runs. Drew hasn't hit more than 31. While Drew had 31 doubles in 2006, Gonzalez had 52. These extra doubles certainly will help make up for the extra five home runs.

And that means what for 2007?

Everyone praised Drew's patience at the plate, but Gonzalez also possesses that attribute. Drew has more patience than Gonzalez does, but it is difficult for me to compare the players in that regard. Although Drew has a higher on-base percentage than Gonzalez, Gonzalez has played 1,356 games more than Drew has. I would assume that as Drew plays more, his on-base percentage could decrease.

Maybe except for the fact that Drew's OBP is consistantly high.

No one knows how many home runs the Dodgers will hit because baseball is unpredictable. Ethier could hit 50 home runs.

And Brett Tomko could win 20 games, Juan Pierre could hit 30 home runs, and Luis Gonzales could hit 57 home runs.

2006-12-19 11:04:59
139.   Midwest Blue

Actually salsa has outsold ketchup in the US for quite some time.

Sorry I brought up the ketchup thing in the first place. I actually like ketchup on hot dogs despite living in the Midwest.

If you're ever out here, don't miss getting a dog at Portillo's.

2006-12-19 11:33:36
140.   Marty
There's a Portillo's in SoCal now, in Buena Park.
2006-12-19 11:35:12
141.   Midwest Blue

Have you tried it? (You should.)

2006-12-19 11:44:59
142.   Chris H
Ketchup is pretty gross, but I think ranch dressing is an even more insipid condiment.

I use ranch like "The Test" from A Bronx Tale. If I go out with a girl and she asks for a side of ranch I know that it isn't going to work out.

2006-12-19 11:50:21
143.   Midwest Blue
Unfortunately 'ranch' is turning into 'raunch'.

I'm never eating ranch dressing again. Or mayonnaise.

2006-12-19 12:44:36
144.   Marty
I haven't tried it yet. But a friend who grew up in Chcago is always dragging his family there.
