2008.08.29 07:00 - Subtracting our Clutter

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    Adams Rubble was the guardian and is responsible for the comments

    I arrived first and was joined by Maxine

    Adams Rubble: Hello Maxine :)
    Maxine Walden: hi, Adams, nice to see you.
    Adams Rubble: Nice to see you too :)
    Adams Rubble: You once asked me whether it made any difference which AV I used
    Maxine Walden: Adams, are you a ball of light this morning, or is it my computer?
    Adams Rubble: It does
    Maxine Walden: oh,?
    Adams Rubble looks
    Adams Rubble: No, it is your computer
    Maxine Walden: ah, let me get closer so maybe I can see you better
    Adams Rubble: I think it has more to do with my "self" coming through than anything else
    Maxine Walden: ah, please tell me more

    Stargate, Fael and Gaya arrive at the same time

    Adams Rubble: hello Stargate :)
    Adams Rubble: Hello Gaya :)
    Adams Rubble: It is hard to eplain Maxine
    Maxine Walden: hi, Stargate
    Fael Illyar: Hi Adams, Maxine, Stargate :)
    Adams Rubble: But I seem to make more progress when I am using Rubble
    Maxine Walden: oh?
    Adams Rubble: Hello fael :)
    Maxine Walden: hi, Fael
    Maxine Walden: and Gaya
    Stargate Tone: Hello Maxine, Adams, Fael, Gaya
    Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_

    I have been enjoyed being guardian in the Friday morning slot since sometime in June

    Adams Rubble: This is my last friday morning GOC; big occasion for me :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: huzzah!
    Fael Illyar: :)
    Adams Rubble: I will miss them but will be there Sundays now
    Maxine Walden: oh, yes, are you moving to another spot?
    Stargate Tone: feeling it means something good ; so ; congratulations
    Adams Rubble: Yes, Sunday 0700
    Adams Rubble: Well it's necessity :)
    Fael Illyar: Yes, fitting things to work with your RL schedule :)
    Maxine Walden: oh, yes. a new beginning perhaps of a sort
    Stargate Tone: seeing it's to been 'blessed' by wery good NO
    Adams Rubble: Yes, in that sense it is very symbolic :)
    Maxine Walden: yes
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles

    Fael returns me to the thread I had begun with Maxine about Rubble and Stargate sees me circling

    Fael Illyar: There was a "more progress as rubble" thread going?
    Adams Rubble: Maxine had once asked me whether I saw a difference as I was switching between AVs
    Adams Rubble: Actually it seems a long time ago but may have been 2-3 days ago :)
    Stargate Tone: ...cannot help myself to tell that also this do rise from my chest for that; You've done huge cirlce ; there's two more to come soon
    Faenik: could be
    Stargate Tone: circle
    Stargate Tone: ...them circles of life...
    Stargate Tone: within oneself...
    Maxine Walden: two more to come for Adams?
    Stargate Tone: that's what rose ....
    Maxine Walden: interesting
    Stargate Tone: meaning that they come soon
    Stargate Tone: ...time...
    Stargate Tone: does not 'exist'...
    Gaya Ethaniel ponders 'so... 4 in total for Adams...'
    Stargate Tone: ...phenomens do create time....
    Maxine Walden: Adams, is there more to share about the different experiences with different AVs?
    Stargate Tone: ---special urgent ones----
    Gaya Ethaniel: Or is that 5...?
    Stargate Tone: as that is, that the No of circles of life is endlesss...
    Fael Illyar can't see where that 4 or 5 came from. Only counted 3.
    Adams Rubble: Not right now Maxine except that I had the thought this morning that I wish Adams could go to work for a couple of weeks :)
    Stargate Tone: dont' end even by death...

    Caledonia Joins us next

    Adams Rubble: Good Morning Cal :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
    Maxine Walden: here comes Cal
    Fael Illyar: Adams is you, if you want to, you can act like that in RL as well.
    Stargate Tone: Hello Cal
    Stargate Tone: nice to meet You again
    Adams Rubble: Yes, but as a reminder, fael :)
    Fael Illyar: Hi Cal :)
    Gaya Ethaniel nods
    Adams Rubble makes note to herself "need reminders"
    Caledonia Heron: hi! yikes, rough landing :)
    Fael Illyar: reminders == PaB bells?
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles
    Adams Rubble: It's been a bit rough this morning in SL again, Cal
    Fael Illyar: Yes, I've heard a couple of people having rough time this morning.
    Faenik loves wells!

    I fulfill my guardian duties by making sure someone does not have something they want to discuss

    Adams Rubble: Does anyone have anything they would like to share about the nine seconds this morning
    Caledonia Heron: I guess so, I've already been swimming in the creek
    Adams Rubble: Funy juxaposition of comments :)
    Maxine Walden: yes, different realities?
    Stargate Tone: ?
    Faenik is a hairy black ball with eyes and ears.
    Adams Rubble: Cal is beginning to talk in metaphors :)
    Maxine Walden: different threads of conversation, are they different realities?
    Adams Rubble: If we try hard enough, Maxine :)
    Adams Rubble: hehe
    Maxine Walden: right!! not sure I can try that hard this morning
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles
    Adams Rubble: Back to nine seconds....
    Adams Rubble: anyone?
    Maxine Walden: also just to mention I have to leave about 7:25amSL, 10 min
    Gaya Ethaniel: Thanks for the warning Maxine <smile>
    Faenik: why not?
    Adams Rubble: Does anyone have anything they would like to talk about?
    Stargate Tone: yea
    Maxine Walden: interesting our 'quiet' when asked
    Stargate Tone: would like to hear how r You :)***
    Adams Rubble: I am nearly perfect, Stargate, thanks for asking :)
    Caledonia Heron: :)
    Fael Illyar is perfect.
    Stargate Tone: wonderful to hear that *
    Stargate Tone: indeed *
    Stargate Tone: thank You
    Gaya Ethaniel notices a balloon in the background... as one next to her plot
    Fael Illyar: Ah, yes, Storm's balloons :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: ah
    Caledonia Heron: I'm not sure where to jump in here :)
    Adams Rubble: Have you taken a ride, Gaya ?
    Fael Illyar: you can take trips around the place with them :)
    Maxine Walden: just anywhere, Cal
    Adams Rubble: Please jump, Cal :)
    Caledonia Heron: WooT
    Maxine Walden: wow, really jumping!
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Caledonia Heron: :)
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles

    Cal introduces a topic of subtracting house clutter

    Caledonia Heron: I'll have a go and continue my survey... have any of you noticed the urge to clean your house? By that I mean getting rid of stuff? I am working through closet after closet
    Gaya Ethaniel doesn't want to interrupt Cal and quietly says 'yes Adams once I went on a balloon' and listen to Cal
    Adams Rubble: I have the urge Cal but that is ll :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: Ah... you've got that urge again Cal
    Adams Rubble: all
    Maxine Walden: yes, have been cleaning things out as well
    Fael Illyar: I collect things so slowly that I haven't had that urge yet.
    Caledonia Heron: I've been on that kick for a few weeks ... went through the coat closet yesterday
    Fael Illyar: When I'm cleaning, I sometimes pick things to throw out from around the place though
    Caledonia Heron: just 20 min, got a huge bag to donate.... thinking about which closet is next :)
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Maxine Walden: downsizing can feel really nice
    Fael Illyar doesn't want to own too much stuff.
    Maxine Walden: nice not a good word, perhaps satisfying
    Caledonia Heron: yeah, downsizing is a way to think of it ... my thought is that it's streamlining....
    Caledonia Heron: less clutter around me, less clutter internally
    Maxine Walden: streamlining is a better word, I agree, think it feels akin to 'letting things go' in meditative way
    Faenik: ah :)
    Caledonia Heron: yeah, literally driving stuff off the property .... taking it to the city

    Hmmm. I had been noticing the city seemed more crowded lately

    Adams Rubble: :)
    Maxine Walden: right
    Caledonia Heron: for recycle, donation, whatever
    Maxine Walden: yes
    Gaya Ethaniel: Is there an advantage of owning less?
    Stargate Tone: maybe
    Maxine Walden: making way for the new, which may be more space for thought or other spacious projects
    Stargate Tone: that feels light...
    Fael Illyar: Yes, less stuff to drag around when you move :P
    Caledonia Heron: not sure - I like that I can reduce the stuff around me to what I actually use
    Maxine Walden: hey good friends, have to go, talk with you next time
    Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
    Caledonia Heron: bye Maxine :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: Good day Maxine
    Fael Illyar waves goodbye to Maxine.
    Stargate Tone: bye Maxine

    Maxine leaves and we continue dissing clutter

    Adams Rubble: Looking around, the clutter feels like clutter in the mind
    Adams Rubble: bye Maxine :)
    Caledonia Heron: exactly Adams - I feel a correlation
    Fael Illyar: Yes, when the house is more cluttered than my mind, I feel like cleaning :P
    Gaya Ethaniel: Pls say more Cal?
    Stargate Tone: when the last thing I 'owned'...our car...marked on my husbands name....I felt more than good...not owning anything....
    Caledonia Heron: when things are concious in my environment (house, car, property) ... it's easier to think clearly imo Gaya :)
    Caledonia Heron: *conscious
    Gaya Ethaniel: Things are tidy you mean or conscious?
    Adams Rubble: Each bit of stuff can have thoughts attached
    Stargate Tone: indeed; cleaning and clering our surrounding, is to do it in mind too
    Adams Rubble: yes Star
    Stargate Tone: and indeed they do
    Caledonia Heron: things are typically tidy, I mean more streamlined, less clutter, reducing the unused things
    Stargate Tone: as a little child, I used to say; Wall do talk to me...
    Caledonia Heron: yes Adams, I know a Vietnamese family that won't buy any used furniture or houses becuase the thoughts and actions of previous owners reside in them
    Gaya Ethaniel: What has made you become more aware of 'clutter' past few weeks then Cal?
    Stargate Tone: they say, that in times of Moses, he was the only one understanding, that spirit can reveal itself in this world only in and throught the matter
    Faenik: ah :)
    Adams Rubble: Hmmm. Cal. I was thinking of my thoughts :)
    Gaya Ethaniel nods... 'I only buy second-hands they feel bright'
    Gaya Ethaniel: that feel bright*
    Caledonia Heron: ah, sure Adams...that too :)
    Fael Illyar: my washing dishes this morning is starting to make sense :)
    Stargate Tone: but thankfully it's changed 'today' and more and more people are aware of that
    Gaya Ethaniel: Say more Fael?
    Fael Illyar: I did some mind cleaning at the same time
    Adams Rubble: Thoughts of yesterday's dinner :)
    Fael Illyar: that was necessary, really :)
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: I'm guessing here Cal that you've become more aware last few weeks, hence the urge to clear clutter & streamline stuff
    Fael Illyar: baking yesterday got my kitchen a bit messy :)
    Caledonia Heron: sure, that's part of it Gaya, no doubt :)
    Gaya Ethaniel re-reads Adams' comments... hm, yesterday's dinner?
    Gaya Ethaniel: Are they more reasons then Cal? What are they?
    Stargate Tone: got a call.....Have Good Time *
    Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
    Stargate Tone: stargate
    Adams Rubble: bye Star :)

    Stargate disappears in her usual explosion of hearts as we continue to talk about urges to get rid of things

    Caledonia Heron: a preference for minimalism balanced with my packrat partner ..... have to tread lightly :)
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Gaya Ethaniel looks up 'packrat' online
    Fael Illyar: minimalist and a packrat ... :)
    Adams Rubble: As slang, a packrat is a person who saves everything
    Adams Rubble is a packrat
    Gaya Ethaniel: ah...
    Caledonia Heron: yeah :) a water sign and a fire sign living together ... :)
    Adams Rubble: with urges to get rid of things
    Gaya Ethaniel: What are those signs btw?
    Caledonia Heron: divest! divest!
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles
    Adams Rubble: haha
    Gaya Ethaniel: Do you believe in 'signs' Cal?... never thought you'd do that...
    Caledonia Heron: nah, just culturally literate :)
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles 'of course'

    And Cal starts a new thread

    Caledonia Heron: when you're born probably does influence your nature
    Fael Illyar: the first months of your life, yes :)
    Fael Illyar: profound impact most likely :)
    Adams Rubble: People seem to have a preference for their month of birth
    Adams Rubble: Sometimes it seems to be their favorite time of year
    Caledonia Heron: sure, summer babies are born when it's warm, less illness, less restriction of movement from clothing , more abundant food resources, etc
    Faenik loves wells!
    Adams Rubble: Also our month of birth has an effect on our age compared to our peers while in school
    Caledonia Heron: yeah, that can be huge at certain ages
    Gaya Ethaniel: My family follows lunar calendar... so somewhat different from you
    Adams Rubble: Yes especially at the two extremes
    Adams Rubble: Ah, Gaya please tell us more
    Adams Rubble enjoys learning from Gaya
    Gaya Ethaniel: Hm... a simple example is that my birthday falls on different date each year
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles
    Adams Rubble: Does it go the whole year?
    Gaya Ethaniel: Sorry go the whole year?
    Adams Rubble: Is it limited to a time period or can it fall any time during the year?
    Gaya Ethaniel: It's same as 'Chinese' New Year. It varies up to a certain period but not much longer
    Caledonia Heron: lol, Adams is asking if instead of being say, 28 you're 52 in lunar calendar :)
    Adams Rubble: no no Cal. haha
    Gaya Ethaniel: So the new year can fall in Jan to Feb for example but not beyond that...
    Caledonia Heron: I'm kidding
    Adams Rubble: Ah
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles
    Adams Rubble: haha Cal
    Fael Illyar: might be fun to have our dates of birth converted to Lunar calendar ones :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: If you tell me your birthdate incl year I will tell you lunar date
    Faenik is a hairy black ball with eyes and ears.
    Fael Illyar: Mine is ****-**-**
    Adams Rubble is amazed Gaya can do that

    While Gaya is calculating Cal makes a "confession" and the fun begins

    Caledonia Heron: my birthday is CALculated on the Proxima Centauri CALendar as I am an alien .... I'm using SL as a way to get to know the human race :) .... but that's just between us :)
    Gaya Ethaniel says next full moon is on 14 Sept
    Adams Rubble: haha Cal
    Gaya Ethaniel: Fael - ****-**-**

    Pema Arrives and I immediately lose my grip on the keyboard. Fael follows. Not sure if she is mimicing me, refering to an earlier log, or made same mistake

    Adams Rubble: Hell Pema :)
    Gaya Ethaniel uses a simple converter online
    Fael Illyar: Hell Pema :)
    Adams Rubble: Hello Pema :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
    Caledonia Heron: ah, christmas eve :)
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles 'yes'
    Pema Pera: hi everybody!
    Caledonia Heron: hey there Pema ... I've just revealed I'm an alien using SL to greet and understand the human race :)
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles
    Pema Pera: :-)
    Adams Rubble: But she waited until we were off log
    Pema Pera: from a superior race, I bet!
    Pema Pera: judging from her command of humor!!
    Adams Rubble: Shall we go back on log?
    Pema Pera: hahaha
    Adams Rubble: haha Pema
    Caledonia Heron: ha ha! a CALculated risk :)
    Pema Pera: inCALculated
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles

    What is life like on this earth?

    Pema Pera: so the human race has individuals who turn into clouds regularly?
    Fael Illyar: :D
    Pema Pera: and crash often?
    Gaya Ethaniel laughs
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Pema Pera: but don't care much ?
    Pema Pera: keep going?
    Caledonia Heron: for sure :)
    Pema Pera: wow
    Pema Pera: what a planet
    Caledonia Heron: I know, I've been admiring it
    Pema Pera: and have fish swimming around them in the air?
    Pema Pera: quite a report you will file on alpha Centauri
    Gaya Ethaniel suddenly remembers an email about 'map/names'... 'after Pema... after doing a chunk of excerpts first'
    Caledonia Heron: yes...I'm transmitting a live feed :)
    Pema Pera: ah, take your time, Gaya!
    Gaya Ethaniel sheepishly smiles
    Pema Pera: so we are on an alien reality show?
    Caledonia Heron: yes SETI is a screening mechanism .... sprinkled throughout high level govt jobs ... :)
    Gaya Ethaniel laughs
    Fael Illyar: Pema, wouldn't surprise me in the least ;)
    Pema Pera: "Earthlings look mostly grey at first"
    Caledonia Heron: yes, Pema.. a kind of what's my line ? :)

    And Gaya brings us back to being earthlings

    Gaya Ethaniel feels like watchinig 'Contact' again...
    Pema Pera: :-)
    Gaya Ethaniel: What did you think of that film btw?
    Pema Pera: mostly great
    Pema Pera: but silly that the woman could not solve the main puzzle, and that a man in a space station had to do it for her
    Gaya Ethaniel sees two 'sciency' ppl trying away furiously at her question
    Pema Pera: Jody Foster seemed able enough herself!
    Caledonia Heron: yeah good ... allows people to open to the idea about other places besides earth, what that is, how to get there
    Pema Pera: Vega or bust :-)
    Caledonia Heron: interesting that it was a scientist and a religious person, yes?
    Pema Pera: yeah
    Pema Pera: Kira wanna-bees?
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles
    Caledonia Heron: lol, yep
    Pema Pera: yes, it really was a good film
    Caledonia Heron: He can be in Kira any old time

    ...from 'Contact' to Carl Sagan. I was a fan of 'Cosmos' and it is sad that he was only 62 when he died

    Pema Pera: well, Carl Sagan was a good writer and good scienist, after all
    Pema Pera: A colleague of mine once summed up Carl Sagan (who wrote the book the movie was based on):
    Caledonia Heron: yeah, as much as people make fun of him, he had a good impact on science and the bigger picture
    Pema Pera: "smart, with a good heart"
    Gaya Ethaniel: That's nice
    Pema Pera: yes, he was a great guy
    Adams Rubble enjoyed Carl Sagen's TV series
    Caledonia Heron: yes, like he saw a slice of grandeur and injected it into his science philosophy
    Pema Pera: could excite millions of people - not many can do that
    Pema Pera: yes
    Pema Pera: humble in person too -- enjoyed talking with him
    Caledonia Heron: now I know Pema (plus 2 other friends of mine) I could potentially know everyone there is :)
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Pema Pera: hehe
    Pema Pera: only two degrees of separation, hey?
    Fael Illyar: Pema really does get around a lot :)
    Pema Pera: slowing down in RL though
    Caledonia Heron: yes, it could be that reduced ... from 6 to now 2
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles
    Fael Illyar: SL is more convenient for keeping touch :)

    ...and from Carl Sagan to professional jealousy

    Pema Pera: it was really silly that most of my astronomy colleagues couldn't stand Carl Sagan
    Pema Pera: pure jealousy
    Pema Pera: he got more limelight than they did
    Pema Pera: very sad
    Adams Rubble: yes
    Pema Pera: but human
    Gaya Ethaniel thinks Pema somewhat different to 'other' scientsts somehow
    Pema Pera: and he was a great scientist in his own right too
    Caledonia Heron: he was the first in a new line of reps for science .. now there are many more , maybe more ccepted
    Pema Pera: :-)
    Gaya Ethaniel: (Was a compliment Pema)
    Caledonia Heron: *accepted
    Pema Pera: yes, the times they are achanging, Cal
    Pema Pera: thanks, Gaya, yes I got that and :-) ed
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles
    Gaya Ethaniel: What aspects of him some of your colleagues don't like about?
    Pema Pera: fame
    Pema Pera: :-)
    Gaya Ethaniel: huh... ok
    Fael Illyar: Gaya, that's jealousy :)
    Fael Illyar: not liking someone else's fame.
    Gaya Ethaniel nods
    Pema Pera: so they said something like he was too superficial or not spending enough time doing hard science, blah blah
    Caledonia Heron: It's hard to believe that some would begrudge a colleague for elevating scientific literacy in the public
    Gaya Ethaniel: Sad that...
    Pema Pera: yes, he elevated everyone else
    Pema Pera: like a rising tide
    Gaya Ethaniel: That they weren't open enough to get to know that person
    Caledonia Heron: for sure, high tide lifts all boats
    Adams Rubble: People work very hard for recognition and they worry about someone getting more than them
    Pema Pera: yes
    Pema Pera: and outside the rules!
    Caledonia Heron: like there's a finite supply of recognition
    Adams Rubble: Their careers can depend on the recognition
    Pema Pera: not through promotion committees but though --argh- tv!
    Caledonia Heron: I say, get off your butt and get some of your own if it bugs you that much
    Pema Pera: exactly
    Adams Rubble: They need some PaB
    Gaya Ethaniel: Working for recognition doesn't really work for oneself either...
    Fael Illyar: :)
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles 'yes!'
    Pema Pera: zero-sum-game thinking is pernicious everywhere in academia
    Faenik: ah :)
    Fael Illyar: If you work to get fame, you're not likely to get it.
    Caledonia Heron: a shame that
    Fael Illyar: it'll blind you to what would get you fame
    Gaya Ethaniel saw the ugliness of academia and decided not to pursue years ago...
    Pema Pera: yes and yes
    Gaya Ethaniel nods
    Caledonia Heron: yes, backed off the doctorate calling card also
    Gaya Ethaniel: Well... I wasn't strong enough to stand on my feet also

    The world is changing...

    Pema Pera: the current academic system is on its last legs
    Pema Pera: will change dramatically within 20 years I think
    Pema Pera: virtual worlds will play a great role in teh dawnfall, I predict
    Pema Pera: the downfall
    Gaya Ethaniel: In the midst of academic politics*
    Caledonia Heron: :) yes, .... Kira; The New Science Institute :)
    Pema Pera: :-)
    Gaya Ethaniel: In what sense Pema?
    Pema Pera: prices too high, compartmentalization too much, no room for true interdiscipilinary work
    Fael Illyar: less politics, more merits
    Pema Pera: why pay $100,000 for an education if you can get all the information online for free?
    Caledonia Heron: yes, you can see it in academic libraries, they are empty, the shift to distance models, socially networked has begun
    Pema Pera: MITs courses are all on line right now
    Gaya Ethaniel: But not for all courses thou, ie medicine
    Pema Pera: distance learning was boring, by email, but now in virtual worlds, it will take off
    Caledonia Heron: exactly
    Pema Pera: well, in Medicine most of the training is through virtual surgery, for example, not real surgery!
    Gaya Ethaniel nods

    I bring up PaB as an example of virtual world training

    Adams Rubble is very impressed with how powerful the experience has been here in PaB
    Pema Pera: I was in Stanford and I saw a demo
    Pema Pera: yes, Adams
    Gaya Ethaniel nods
    Caledonia Heron: yes vr training is highly effective ...
    Pema Pera: and every year it will become more so
    Fael Illyar: Ah, yes, PaB is similar to how people will learn things in the future.
    Pema Pera: could be :-)
    Pema Pera: why not?
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles
    Adams Rubble: ah
    Caledonia Heron: what do you think the particular aspects of pab are that make it effective for learning Fael?
    Faenik eyes around curiously.
    Gaya Ethaniel loves wells!
    Pema Pera: hahaha
    Pema Pera: well wisher
    Caledonia Heron: anyone?
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles
    Adams Rubble: First Cal is the collection of expertise
    Fael Illyar: it's a spontaneous group of people interested in similar things.
    Adams Rubble: It would be hard to gather together this diverse group of people in RL and keep them together
    Pema Pera: not afraid of uncertainty
    Adams Rubble: Secondly is the ease of access
    Fael Illyar: everyone participating is interested.
    Pema Pera: willing to jump into the dark
    Adams Rubble: Third is the freedom to expres ones mind
    Caledonia Heron: good! have been thinking about how to chracterize this learning model :)
    Caledonia Heron: *characterize
    Gaya Ethaniel: Has no particular goal to achieve ie a degree paper
    Pema Pera: trust
    Adams Rubble: yes trust!
    Pema Pera: trusting the participants and trusting the process
    Caledonia Heron: how this learning model could be used in different areas, disciplines if you will
    Gaya Ethaniel nods
    Adams Rubble: yes!
    Gaya Ethaniel copies 'trusting the participants and trusting the process' into her diary
    Caledonia Heron: ability to make mistakes freely and it's not a bad thing?
    Pema Pera: trusting that walking into the unknown is not silly , with a little help from your friends
    Faenik: ah :)
    Pema Pera: yes, Cal
    Pema Pera: it is a kind of "open source" philosophy
    Caledonia Heron: yes, open source knowledge
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles
    Caledonia Heron: Kira; Open Source Science Institute :)
    Pema Pera: I like that!

    We went back to discussing the birthdate issue for Pema ( I left out a couple of lines here)

    Caledonia Heron: actually my birthdate is CALculated in light years which would be a very large number
    Adams Rubble: I guess the question is to Cal, is it OK to work in your comment somehow and begin again from there?
    Adams Rubble: haha Cal
    Pema Pera: the quarks in our body were born roughly 13700000000 years ago
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles
    Adams Rubble: many moons
    Gaya Ethaniel: quarks?
    Caledonia Heron: sec
    Pema Pera: parts of atoms
    Gaya Ethaniel: ah...
    Gaya Ethaniel: From what Pema?
    Pema Pera: from nothing, probably
    Gaya Ethaniel: oh...
    Faenik is a hairy black ball with eyes and ears.
    Gaya Ethaniel: Would it be something but appear to be nothing to us?
    Pema Pera: well, I should be going to bed by now, 20 minutes past midnight
    Adams Rubble: Sounds good Cal. OK Gaya and Fael?
    Gaya Ethaniel: Sure
    Fael Illyar: Sure
    Adams Rubble: Good night Pema :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: Good night Pema
    Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
    Pema Pera: good seeing you all again!
    Caledonia Heron: bye Pema :)
    Fael Illyar: Good night Pema :)
    Pema Pera: and I'll read to log for he mysteries about dates
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Adams Rubble: bye Cal :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
    Pema Pera: oh, if I can give one parting sentence
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Pema Pera: today I met a woman on Mars
    Pema Pera: while talking with an astro colleague
    Caledonia Heron: [start of limerick]
    Pema Pera: she dropped by
    Pema Pera: hehe
    Pema Pera: and she had an amazing sentence in her profile:
    Pema Pera: Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery but today is a gift - thats why they call it 'the present' :)
    Caledonia Heron: lol
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Pema Pera: sounds like we should get her to PaB
    Pema Pera: working on it
    Caledonia Heron: maybe so :)
    Pema Pera: see you all!
    Adams Rubble trying to finish the limerick
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles 'thanks Pema'
    Pema Pera: hahaha
    Caledonia Heron: :)
    Adams Rubble: bye Pema :)
    Caledonia Heron: bye y'all
    Fael Illyar waves goodbye to Pema.
    Adams Rubble: bye Cal :)
    Pema Pera: bye adams, Fael, Gaya!

    Pema and Cal leave and Fael, Gaya and I sit around and share in some warm discussion

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