How to Verify Stage 2 Option?

Discussion in 'The Bench' started by TheEternalDance, Apr 15, 2021.

  1. TheEternalDance

    TheEternalDance Well-Known Member

    Buick Brethren -

    I feel I have a decent understanding of the Stage 2 option and rarity - dealer option only which included an aluminum intake, cam swap, long tube headers and different carb? (Please correct me if I’m off-base)

    My understanding is you’d only know Stage 2 was ordered with the original dealer invoice - are there any other ways to tell? I’m unaware of a similar Stage 2 registry.. does one exist?

    I ask because when I bought my Stage 1 70 GSX, it originally had an aluminum intake, Holley double pumper, and KB long tube headers, along with a built 70 SF block (40 over with crank work, too). Is there a way for me to know if it is a true Stage 2?

    I called the closest thing to the original dealership where my X was originally sold (thank you for the dealer code list!!!!), and of course their records are looonnnnggg gone.

    I know there are some Stage 2 experts out there, and I’d really appreciate any insight you may have.

    Many thanks,
  2. 436'd Skylark

    436'd Skylark Sweet Fancy Moses!!!!!

    I was under the impression it wasn't a dealer installed option. They were simply parts available over the counter. The headers were not Kenne Belle, they were Kustom Headers too. Also it seems you are unaware the stage 2 heads are different cylinder heads with radically different exhaust ports. Thats the hot ticket of the stage 2 stuff.
  3. TheEternalDance

    TheEternalDance Well-Known Member

  4. pbr400

    pbr400 68GS400

    Theoretically any or all of the Stage 1 or Stage 2 parts could have been installed by the dealer, but Stage 2 heads required headers as no factory manifolds would fit, and unless the dealer did exhaust work you’d be driving home opened headers. (And the heads weren’t available as soon as the other stuff, either. ‘72 maybe?) Also I doubt many would be interested in paying dealer labor for a (warranty voiding) head swap, rear gear change or to tear down a brand new engine to swap pistons and bearings.
    And because Stage 2 parts were individual pieces there’s no definitive ‘package’, although the heads are the big ‘must have’ for which no aftermarket substitute existed.
    Most likely very few if any customer owned cars had every part upgraded to Stage 2 using all Buick or Buick recommended parts. Even less likely would be a new car converted all at once unless raced by someone Buick sponsored. By the dealer, less likely than that. Highly unlikely would be a full conversion when new by a dealer as a ‘customer pay’.
    TheEternalDance likes this.
  5. 436'd Skylark

    436'd Skylark Sweet Fancy Moses!!!!!

    The heads were available in late 1970.
  6. Pro69GS400

    Pro69GS400 Well-Known Member

    Gary Paine “thumper” on the board has a 69 check with him on stage 2 option.....
  7. Thumper (aka greatscat)

    Thumper (aka greatscat) Well-Known Member

    In 69 you could order Stage2 parts over the counter. Actually in 68 they were available but to a select few, Pop Kennedy being one. You could order the parts ala carte or as a package. You could have the dealer install them or install them yourself. I took delivery of my 69 GS400 in Feb 1969, my stage2 parts arrived in April. I didn't order everything through the dealer,all Buick parts I did but the MT headers, B4B manifold, Holley carb I got outside,they were much cheaper. I installed everything by June and began racing the stage2 GS. The only way to definitively determine if its stage2 equipped is to remove the cam and check for 2 grooves on the front of the cam and remove a head to see if they are stage2 pistons. The 69 and 70 stage2 parts were the same. Then in 71 the special stage2 heads became available, about 75 sets were made and no exhaust manifolds, Kustom Header co. made headers for them. I do have a set of stage2 heads and Kustom headers I used to race on Thumper, they really dont work on a 400 since the larger valves are shrouded by the smaller bore. Our 69 stage2 is 1 of 2 documented stage2 cars still in existence.
  8. TheEternalDance

    TheEternalDance Well-Known Member

    Thank you for all the details - I’ve certainly learned a lot. Didn’t realize all of the Stage 2 ‘options’ and exacting timelines - this is pretty crystal clear. Really appreciate the education!
    PGSS likes this.
  9. 1972Mach1

    1972Mach1 Just some M.M.O.G. guy.....

    Gary, just curious if you ran the car before converting it to stage 2 and what it ran before and after at the time?
    PGSS and 69 GS 400 like this.
  10. Thumper (aka greatscat)

    Thumper (aka greatscat) Well-Known Member

    Bone stock with less than 1000 miles, Blue ran 14.7, after stage2 install still on street tires ran 13.1, with slicks ran a best of 12.38, typically 12.5's. that best run we hit the right combo of launching a 4 speed with slicks, no bog and didn't go up in smoke, tough to do with 4.78 gears and narrow tires.
    AC Larry, GKMoz, BuickGSrules and 5 others like this.
  11. hugger

    hugger Well-Known Member

    Anyone have any real world times for the 12.5 to 1 stage 2 in full weight car I wonder??

    There was two Piston options correct? The 11 to 1 and the 12.5 to 1
  12. Thumper (aka greatscat)

    Thumper (aka greatscat) Well-Known Member

    What year,motor?
  13. BrunoD

    BrunoD Looking for Fast Eddie

    I wanted to get the S-2 heads many times.The parts manager of Eiseman Buick was a good friend,but he knew very little about all out performance.I ordered those heads many times,always g0t S-I heads.Then I got in touch with Kenny-Bell [I dealt with them many times before.] and at first they tell me they had them in stock,then he tells me to prepay for them,to be delivered at a later date.Then I got the notice that there was no more S-2 heads.In those days it would have been a plus,but nowdays the aluminum ones are better and lighter.Bruno.
    69 GS 400 likes this.
  14. Thumper (aka greatscat)

    Thumper (aka greatscat) Well-Known Member

    From back in the day.

    Attached Files:

    Herman Gross, rgs455, gs66 and 3 others like this.
  15. Stage 2 iron

    Stage 2 iron 474 IRON HEAD STAGE 2

    If only Buick would’ve introduced to new 430/400 In 1965 things will be a whole lot different today.
  16. Dano

    Dano Platinum Level Contributor

    Besides the parts purchased through the aftermarket, did you buy everything from Buick that was offered and what were those items?

    My '70 GSX had headers installed when virtually brand new by the original owner (car was bought new in Aug. '70) but they weren't MT's. Do you recall what else was available back then? Also had a B4B installed at the same time but idk if he bought the parts through the dealer or aftermarket.
    69 GS 400 likes this.
  17. gs66

    gs66 Silver Level contributor

    Nice, composed with a typewriter!
    69 GS 400 likes this.
  18. 69 GS 400

    69 GS 400 Well-Known Member

    I guess the only way to prove it would be with original paper work. I do recall reading somewhere that an original owner did purchase a B4B and MT valve covers at a dealership that had some items on display when he bought his car. As the dealers are independent they must have had someone with a like for speed parts with pull working there to stock them.
  19. Thumper (aka greatscat)

    Thumper (aka greatscat) Well-Known Member

    That's all we had in 1970 lol
  20. Thumper (aka greatscat)

    Thumper (aka greatscat) Well-Known Member

    I purchased from GM, cam, springs, undersized bearings, pistons, rings, pushrods, intake manifold gasket w/ heat risers blocked, aftermarket was MT headers, B4B , holley 850 carb, flyeye air cleaner, thrush mufflers, these items were a lot less costly outside GM.
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2021
    Mike B in SC, Dano and 69 GS 400 like this.

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