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<civodul>ACTION started a core-updates eval
<civodul>good night/day!
<efraim>i had to reboot my aarch64 board and i don't think its coming back up :(
<Apteryx>efraim: Why's that? Can you at least select a previous GRUB entry to get it to boot?
<sneek>Apteryx, you have 1 message.
<sneek>Apteryx, alezost says: re "emacs-dvc": Guix's Emacs find elisp files in "share/emacs/site-lisp" and "share/emacs/site-lisp/guix.d/<pkg-dir>" but not in "share/emacs/site-lisp/<pkg-dir>". In such cases we modify package recipes to move the files into one of those dirs
<efraim>i'm 6000 miles away and i think its stuck at fscking the external harddrive
<Apteryx>Ugh. That sucks.
<ryanwatkins>Anybody have any idea why my current system profile would still point to /run/current-system/.../guile/site/2.0 for a given guile of version 2.2?
<Apteryx>I'm thinking for remote admin of machines (which I don't do right now), I'd setup a 2nd mini device reachable by OpenSSH and which can then control the main machine via serial port for these times when we need to debug something in GRUB/BIOS.
<ryanwatkins>My latest guile packages don't seem to be symlinked accordingly
<baconicsynergy>helloooo from emacs erc
<Apteryx>sneek: later tell alezost: Thanks for the information! Can <pkg-dir> be anything? In my case (emacs-dvc), it should be "dvc", right?
<sneek>Got it.
<Apteryx>baconicsynergy: How is it? I've been meaning to try it for sometime. Weechat is serving we very well in the meantime!
<baconicsynergy>Apteryx: it's actually very user friendly!
<baconicsynergy>still haven't learned everything about it
<Apteryx>baconicsynergy: Great! Any fancy features like smart filtering (e.g. to mask annoying connect/disconnect messages)?
<baconicsynergy>not sure! I'm sure it exists, lemme see
<baconicsynergy>I think it might do it automatically...
<kadintrooper>I'm still having issues with pdf-tools :(
<kadintrooper>Wait nvm
***Piece_Maker is now known as Acou_Bass
<Apteryx>baconicsynergy: It's nice if it does!
<kadintrooper>Hello, so I'm trying to build emacs with xwidgets support but when I go to build it says checking for WEBKIT... no, configure: error: xwidgets requested but WebKitGTK+ not found.
<kadintrooper>Though I have webkitgtk installed
<kadintrooper>Do I have to make webkitgtk an input in the package description?
<kadintrooper>I'm just not sure what else it wants
<kadintrooper>configure: error: xwidgets requested but WebKitGTK+ not found.
<buenouanq>blood, first born child, etc
<kadintrooper>(inputs (append `(("webkitgtk" ,webkitgtk)
<kadintrooper>But it still complains about it not being found
<rekado>kadintrooper: which version are you building?
<rekado>kadintrooper: the previous release needs an older version of webkitgtk
<rekado>kadintrooper: the development version uses the latest version of webkitgtk
<kadintrooper>GNU Emacs 25.1.1
<rekado>the initial xwidgets used the old synchronous webkit API
<rekado>I submitted some patches which made it use the asynchronous API, so that it works with the latest webkitgtk.
<rekado>I should also warn you that the xwidgets stuff is pretty unusable at the moment.
<kadintrooper>Alright, I guess I'll just leave it for now then
<rekado>the latest status is that you have a widget and control it by sending it some javascript
<rekado>it’s not integrated with the rest of emacs at all.
<kadintrooper>Thank you :)
<rekado>I had plans to write a REPL extension to webkit that allows Emacs to exchange Sexprs with the widget, but I didn’t have time to continue work on this.
<civodul>hey Guix!
<kadintrooper>Hey civodul :)
<civodul>ACTION considers submitting a talk to
<Apteryx>Hi civodul!
<civodul>hi Apteryx!
<civodul>thanks for finding out the bugs i introduced in the mandb hook :-)
<civodul>i haven't tried out the new patch, will do later today
<Apteryx>civodul: No problem! It probably served well in understanding the finer details of what's going on!
<htgoebel1>civodul: Hi. Following you instructions "Re: Hwo to debug and teacking builds?" I try running the tests for networkmanager-qt in a container.
<htgoebel1>"build/autotests/activeconnectiontest -vs -v2" fails with " cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory".
<htgoebel1>One notable point: my guix-daemon has TMPDIR=/var/tmp
***htgoebel1 is now known as htgoebel
<catonano>how do I raise the volume in xfce ? I can't find an audio panel
<thomasd>catonano: you can install alsa-util(-s?) and run alsamixer from the command line
<catonano>thomasd: ah thanks
<catonano>how do I check which bianaries are already available on hydra ? In creating a vm image it started compiling a kernel :-/
<thomasd>you can check , and click on the first jobset for a more recent commit than the one you've checked out/installed
<thomasd>e.g. I'm on commit 314120f, and evaluatoion 109573 for that commit is complete. Then you can look at succeeding/queued jobs for that evaluation
<thomasd>though it isn't 100% reliable, because I just started building libreoffice, even though that's supposed to be built on hydra :)
<catonano>thomasd: thanks
<thomasd>I really wonder why there was no substitute for libreoffice, though...
<thomasd>Probably this could be simplified with “guix channels”? (i.e. provide a channel that follows complete evaluations on hydra, so users who wish can avoid having to rebuild big packages?)
<catonano>I wonder why the kernel 4.10 had to be buiilt when I ahve the 4.9 in my conf
<thomasd>also in the conf for the vm image?
<catonano>and I wonder yes
<thomasd>I suppose that somewhere, a package you are using depends on the kernel
<thomasd>and the Guix dependency graph is fixed, so it can't take into account that you are running 4.9, and pulls in the “default” kernel
<catonano>I guess
<thomasd>though I can't find any packages depending on the kernel itself :/
<catonano>thomasd: oh well
<catonano>I'll wait a bit
<catonano>maybe a day
<thomasd>I made a custom config for my laptop, containing only the modules I need. took me a few tries to get right, but has saved a lot of time since (a kernel build now only takes 15 minutes)
<thomasd>if it's an option, you can also checkout an older version and work on that (more difficult if you want to test something more recent :) )
<catonano>thomasd: the reason why I'm doing this is because I want to try strace on greenisland. It currently fails on core-updates
<catonano>I could manage to build it in a core-updates checkout
<thomasd>also, my kernel config comment makes no sense because you're not building the kernel for your system :)
<catonano>in order to use strace, you need to move to the kept build folder and operate it manuually while keeping a core-updates deps graph
<catonano>I can't do that
<catonano>so I thought if I had a core-updates based virtual machine, i could do that in the virtual machine
<catonano>ust to figure out how to produce it and operate qemu too me a day ;-)
<thomasd>well, ... it's a useful skill to have :-)
<thomasd>I don't understand the strace comment, but I have to go now, so I'll have to ask about that later
<catonano>thomasd: bye !
<civodul>htgoebel: having TMPDIR different from /tmp probably means you can't really debug in the failed build tree
<civodul>htgoebel: unless you do a chroot and bind-mount $TMPDIR to /tmp
<civodul>because the name inside the build env is always /tmp/guix-build-foo.drv-0
***jonsger1 is now known as jonsger
<ofosos1>hi guix
<civodul>hello ofosos1!
<ofosos1>i've some problems with the package `tlp'
<ofosos1>the `wifi', `bluetooth' and `wwan' binaries don't work
<ofosos1>they're wrapped in a shell script and the `rea' binaries are named `.bluetooth-real', which doesn't work, since they check the name they're called with
<ofosos1>and then decide in what mode to execute
<ofosos1>simply symlinking .real-bluetooth in /gnu/store to `wifi', `bluetooth' and `wwan' make them work again
<ofosos1>also, tlp profiles are not applied at startup, is there a good way with shepherd to execute some action on system start?
<ofosos1>tlp is practically a neccessity, since power consumption on a laptop is 50% higher, compared to running without tlp
<ofosos1>also the tlp package lacks the /etc/tlp file, you can create this from scratch, but it should at least contain something like /etc/default/tlp, possibly in /gnu/store
<ofosos1>is there a way in guixsd to run a script on startup? i would like to build a shepherd unit (correct name?), which seems feasible, i.e. use the no respawn option and then run on startup to at least run tlp initially and maybe respawn it from time to time
<davexunit>I see that someone updated Kodi. that's awesome news.
<davexunit>glad to see someone besides myself make sense of that mess of a build system they have!
<davexunit>thanks Marius! (no idea if they are on IRC)
<civodul>ofosos1: there's a tlp service in GuixSD now
<civodul>that's probably what you should use
<civodul>BTW: never ever modify files in /gnu/store
<ofosos1>has anybody some debugging tips? i can't seem to get mcron running, the service crashes and shepherd disables it. no logs whatsoever
<IHateIRC>Hello, I am dual booting parabola and guixSD. They both share the shame /home, but have a different /. I'm making my two users (joshua) have the same id. (uid 2000). Is there any other groups that I should make sure have the same id?
<IHateIRC>wheel? maybe?
<ofosos1>if i start mcron as root, that works, but i have it in my system config.scm and that doesn't work :(
<ofosos1>ist there a way to see the output of the mcron command in the system-profile? i guess this is not identical to the root profile
<IHateIRC>ofosos1: I have no idea what you're talking about.... good luck
<civodul>ofosos1: you can do "guix gc -R $(guix system build config.scm)| grep mcron-job"
<civodul>or: "guix gc -R $(readlink -f /run/current-system/) | grep mcron-job"
<civodul>and then try running "mcron /gnu/store/...-mcron-job.scm"
<civodul>most likely it's a syntax error in your file or something
<IHateIRC>If I specify the "wheel" group to have an gid of 10, will that get over-written by %base-groups?
<IHateIRC>hello? can two different users share the same home directory?
<IHateIRC>or is that inadvised?
<catonano>IHateIRC: I'm afraid that's not possible.
<catonano>IHateIRC: softwares in GuixSD are installed per profile
<catonano>tat is
<catonano>well, I can't go into that, I couldn't be clear. Please, write on the help mailing list
<bavier>I just read the article about code reviews. Maybe a simple thing we could do is to recognize reviewers in our release notes alongside authors/contributors and such
<civodul>bavier: yeah maybe, though i have mixed feelings about this approach
<civodul>i did try this here: :-)
<bavier>I thought that was a cool experiment
<bavier>and I've been feeling a bit guilty about my review activity lately
<IHateIRC>catonano: Thanks for the tip. I thought it would be a bad idea anyway, so I'm making the two users have different home directories
<catonano>IHateIRC: there's a .guix-proile older in home folers in guixSD
<catonano>and that .guuix-profile foflder contains some specic things related to pacages installed iin a user profile
<catonano>i 2 users folders were merged, conlicts would prrobably arise
<ilyaigpetrov>if guile is not purely functional, then how may be software updates be pure?
<catonano>ilyaigpetrov: software updates being pure doesn't depend on the language. A software package is given a unique hash and the compiled packages are managed by a daemon, not by the common programmer. That makes the software updates "pure"
<catonano>ilyaigpetrov: if you, or example, change something in the store, you'll see that it won't work anymore
<catonano>ilyaigpetrov: because the store is supposed to be managed by the daemon
<catonano>the update is mediated
<catonano>ilyaigpetrov: did that help ?
<ilyaigpetrov>catonano: how configs are migrated?
<ilyaigpetrov>I mean, they may impure
<catonano>ilyaigpetrov: what do you mean with "configs" ?
<ilyaigpetrov>catonano: how is guile used? I thought it is used to configure packages
<catonano>guile is used to define packages.
<catonano>As or confiiguration
<catonano>there's a ""services"
<catonano>a "services"" layer
<ilyaigpetrov>catonano: ok, so package may be built by script in guile?
<catonano>in that you can configure services populating scheme data structures
<catonano>ilyaigpetrov: yes. That script will call some API and that API will actually operate the daemon
<catonano>and the daemon will build the package
<ilyaigpetrov>catonano: interesting. May some programmer write poor code in guile and break pure updates/migrations?
<ilyaigpetrov>by poor I mean non-functional
<catonano>ilyaigpetrov: no. A programmer cac call APIs
<catonano>ilyaigpetrov: a programmer can call APIs
<catonano>in order to break packkage building they should manage to have a maliciuos patch merged in ;-)
<ilyaigpetrov>catonano: so guile is used to manage daemons and that's it?
<catonano>ilyaigpetrov: ust one daemon ;-)
<catonano>Just one daemon
<catonano>AND there's the services thing
<ilyaigpetrov>catonano: does guix package manager depend on systemd equivalent you use?
<ilyaigpetrov>ok, I think not, because you may run this package manager on other systems
<catonano>it doesn't depend on the services layer. In fact the pacage manager can work as a user software on top of other distributions. BUT in GuixSD the packkage manager works along with the services layer
<ilyaigpetrov>catonano: what is this only daemon guile interacts with?
<ilyaigpetrov>I mean guile is used to interact with
<catonano>it come from Nix. Nix uses it with its own language. In Guix, the language used is Guile scheme
<catonano>it comes
<catonano>this idea originated in Nix
<alezost>Apteryx: yeah, <pkg-dir> can be anything (if you mean ".../guix.d/<pkg-dir>"), so Emacs will find *.el files installed in "share/emacs/site-lisp/guix.d/dvc"
<sneek>alezost, you have 2 messages.
<sneek>alezost, civodul says: thanks for texi-in-synopses! we might need to update the web site to DTRT too
<sneek>alezost, Apteryx says: Thanks for the information! Can <pkg-dir> be anything? In my case (emacs-dvc), it should be "dvc", right?
<catonano>The proect founder, Ludo, used to be a Nix developer
<catonano>ilyaigpetrov: hope this helps !
<ilyaigpetrov>catonano: in nix nixlang (let it this way) is used to configure packages, but you say guile is not used for it
<ilyaigpetrov>catonano: ok, thanks for your time
<catonano>ilyaigpetrov: as ffar as I know, the nix languages is used to define packages too. The services layer (where some configuration happens) is different, though
<catonano>ilyaigpetrov: also, Nix has a part dedicated to orchestration. Guix lacks that still. It's a younger project
<ilyaigpetrov>catonano: I feel sympathy for pure haskell and pure nixlang, still can't accept that guile is impure
<catonano>ilyaigpetrov: it's a matter of personal preferences. But pay attention to the act thhat the nix language is not haskkell. It's a specific domani specific language
<catonano>domain specific
<catonano>and a domain specific language can have drawbacks in regard to a general one. Furtehrmore, Guile schheme is not purely functional, but the Guix code is functional ;-)
<catonano>as far as I know, no assignment is used ;-
<ilyaigpetrov>ok, thanks
<catonano>ilyaigpetrov: you're welcome :-)
<davexunit>it's important to remember that at the end of the day all this stuff is running a register machine
<davexunit>"functional" is a matter of perspective
<davexunit>running on a*
<bavier>paroneayea: just watched your libreplanet talk. Loved it!
<efraim>i don't know if our gccgo package actually has a gccgo binary
<efraim>it supposed to be called gccgo?
<paroneayea>bavier: yay!
<catonano>paroneayea: you tal kwas great. I was impressed by the talk "social justice, reach them where they are" or something
<catonano>I'm not sure I understood exactly the point made there, but I enoyed it anyway ;-)
<janneke>catonano: you're talking about Brett Smith's talk?
<catonano>janneke: too bad I don't remember his name, I only remember the title
<catonano>and I can't find it now :-/
<paroneayea>catonano: oh yeah, brett smith's talk was good too. and thanks! :)
<catonano>janneke: I found it, Yes it's Brett Smith. It's this one
<paroneayea>Brett is one of the best.
<janneke>catonano: what exactly did you not understand, I think he made several points
<OriansJ>janneke: did you ever get around to forwarding our discussion?
<random-nick>is there a possibility of a hash collision in a guix store?
<OriansJ>random-nick: technically yes for every hashing method, however the question is one of probability aka using crc8 means highly likely, md5 rather lower, sha1 only if being actively attacked and sha512 if something hightly unlikely happens
<random-nick>so how does the store behave in a hash collision? does it overwrite the package which was there first with the colliding package?
<janneke>OriansJ: I think I suggested that you would just re-send your 2nd message `You missed my later work' to guile-user and I'd answer there
<janneke>ACTION notices that's a very verbose `no, not yet' ;-)
<catonano>janneke: thhey say that the current raccomandatiion of the fs community is to use approved distros thaht have some parts removed. But this makes the chain from upstream to the final uusers longer and more complex. But how would Guix help with security ? Guix distribuutes thhe libre kernel and Icecat. The whole distro is different but some important parts are still subject to that spell
<efraim>random-nick: guix uses sha256 for the hash by default, I haven't dug into the code to see if it'll overwrite the existing package but I assume it would
<janneke>catonano: Brett states that `GuixSD stands a chance', in that it differs from all the others by two significant factors
<janneke>it is not based on some other distro, that takes away the extra delay of waiting for upstream to apply the patch, and only then remove the non-free bits
<janneke>also, GuixSD is not a one or two person-show
<janneke>like most of the other libre distros
<catonano>ok. I don't know much about other libre distros. Maybe this was one of the reasons for attempting a GNU distro ?
<janneke>with GuixSD, truly free/libre is not an add-on
<catonano>sorry, I interrupted
<janneke>catonano: i think (but you'll have to ask civodul -- is there a history writing somewhere about this?) that to start a new succesful distro that you need a compelling reason to do so
<janneke>replacing NixOS's DSL with Guile and starting from a GNU (libre) philosophy was a good base to start on
<efraim>i would've liked to have seen the slides while listening to that talk
<catonano>janneke: ok. Thanks
<rekado>encouraged by paroneayea’s talk about lisp machines I watched a video and then learned about McCLIM and CLIM LISTENER.
<rekado>I want something like that for Emacs.
<rekado>nah, for Guile Emacs.
<rekado>and I want a shared Guile REPL in the background for the whole system.
<rekado>CLIM LISTENER does what I always wanted the Emacs shell to do: display complex values without just rendering them as text.
<rekado>the screenies here are inspiring:
<rekado>"McCLIM, the stuff that really boring dreams are made of." <– haha :)
<slyfox>for some reason the server refuses connection by that url for me
<rekado>ACTION recompiles qt, scribus, lilypond, icecat … after upgrading core-updates.
<civodul>slyfox: same here, weird
<janneke>OriansJ: thanks! I also copied epsilon-devel, as lucasaiu asked me to keep that list in the loop with future Mes releases.
<civodul>damn it i've been stuck on a dicod system test, i should be watching paroneayea's video instead
<civodul>janneke: great that you're in touch with Luca on this!
<janneke>civodul: yes, i think so too! we had a very good talk @fosdem, with the realisation that we share a lot of intention and drive to solve to solve a quite similar problem
<rekado>slyfox, civodul I’m using epiphany to open it. (Because icecat won’t start for me.)
<OriansJ>janneke: Have you played with c500 or c in 4 functions yet?