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<nckx>jeko: I'm off to bed like most people here. If you run into any more issues and the room is quiet, there's always Have fun!
<jeko>nckx: of course thank you good night, I should do the same anyway
<KE0VVT>I'm about to do an overhaul on my system, get new hard drives, and reinstall, and I'm thinking about using Guix. HOWEVER, I'm not sure I want to give up all the compatibility that Ubuntu/Trisquel has. It's similar reasoning to Tom Scott's "The Art of the Bodge":
<NieDzejkob>KE0VVT: Well, if you go by that reasoning, you might want switch to Windows instead...
<drakonis>what compatibility is it that you're after?
<drakonis>hmm, can i inherit a build system?
<drakonis>nvm i didnt need that.
<KE0VVT>drakonis: Ubuntu has so much documentation. You can easily do anything with it. This is what makes Trisquel so convenient.
***capnick is now known as cap
<KE0VVT>drakonis: It's supported nearly as well as Windows, that is.
<drakonis>you mean debian
<drakonis>but sure
<drakonis>and can't you with guix?
<drakonis>iits definitely a bit more involved but i tis quite fun
<drakonis>there arent packages and services for all the things yet, but its getting there
<drakonis>its worth it though
<bdju> This says it's based off Ubuntu. (I guess he's gone, but it's easier to hit enter at this point)
<Blackbeard[m]>That art of bodge video was terrible
<Blackbeard[m]>It advocates mediocrity
<Blackbeard[m]>I like to do things whitout trying to do them right because once NASA had to fit a square in a circle...
<Blackbeard[m]>Conviniently ignoring the fact that a huge majority of things NASA does are actually well planned
<Blackbeard[m]>Proceeds to explain how to do things fast wasted a huge amount of time because didn't want to take the time to do things right
<davidl>I have a root user with guix on a redhat server, but it fails when running guix describe with error: failed to determine origin. guix also can't find packages from additional channels for the root user (but works for the other users), even though guix pull -l lists the additional channel. Any ideas why?
<davidl>so I guess for the root user on a foreign distro, there's some important difference between /root/.config/guix/current and /usr/local/bin/guix.. I guess /usr/local/bin/guix is used by the system daemon and the root user's guix is in its personal /root/.config/guix/current/bin/guix - or is that wrong?
<mbakke>davidl: /usr/local/bin/guix is not used for anything in Guix. ~.config/guix/current/bin/guix is the one you want first in PATH
<Rovanion>Is it possible to install a specific version of a package with GUIX? As one does with `apt-get install package==version`.
<davidl>mbakke: ok thanks. Shouldn't that path be added in ~/.guix-profile/etc/profile? I can always add it in .bashrc, but still just wondering.
<smithras>Rovanion: `guix install package@version`
<Rovanion>smithras: Thank you!
<smithras>Rovanion: no problem! the caveat is that it needs to be a version that guix knows about, and often when packages are updated the old versions are removed from guix
<Rovanion>smithras: How do I know which versions Guix knows about?
<mbakke>davidl: users can have many profiles at different locations (see the -p option), so we can not make any assumptions
<smithras>Rovanion: for example with the package guile, `guix show guile` returns a result for each version that it knows about, which are 1.8, 2.0, 2.2...
<smithras>if the version you're looking for isn't there, I think you can still use `guix time-machine` to use an older version of guix that might have the package, but I haven't tried that yet
<davidl>mbakke: I see, thanks
<DamienCassou>hi Everyone
<Rovanion>When trying to install Guix from tarball on a normal Linux install the manual says to run: wget . That gives me a 404.
<smithras>Rovanion: you need to replace 'system' with the name of your system architecture
<tru_tru>"system is x86_64-linux for an x86_64 machine"
<tru_tru>or just browse to t opick your file
<smithras>^what tru_tru said :) if you don't know which arch you're using, run `uname -m`
<Rovanion>Is there any reason why the command in the manual can't be wget$(uname -m)-$(uname | tr '[:upper:]' '[:lower:]').tar.xz.sig
<Rovanion>Perhaps I could change it for posterity.
<smithras>Rovanion: That makes sense to me
<tru_tru>Rovanion: you can also have a look at the script :) (I am barely a new user here, just my 2 cents)
<tru_tru>chk_sys_arch() might have your answer ^^
<Rovanion>Ah, unfortunately a bit more complicated.
<Rovanion>Does Guix have a parallel to nix-shell? Something which allows developers to declare the dependencies for developing a project in a file in the source code for the project so that any new developer only have to run `nix-shell` to have all dependencies installed and available in the shell?
<jboy>what would be the portable way to write this shebang line for systems without env?
<smithras>Rovanion: That sounds like guix environment
<efraim>we have manifest files
<smithras>oh right, if you want it in a file then a manifest file is probably the right answer
<efraim>we also have an unofficial guix.scm that sometimes gets placed in projects to allow building them easily while developing them
<civodul>Hello Guix!
<g_bor[m]>hello guix!
<g_bor[m]>I was trying to add a link in an extra-special-file to a specific file in an output of a package.
<g_bor[m]>What is the syntax for that?
<kmicu>( ^_^)／
<efraim>g_bor[m]: would file-append help?
<g_bor[m]>I tried (file-append #~#$package:output "path"), but I got object is not an exception of ...
<g_bor[m]>efraim: I guess so, but how?
<efraim>for a regular special-files-service-type it's just ("/bin/bash" ,(file-append "/bin/bash"))
<efraim>er, ,(file-append bash "/bin/bash")
<g_bor[m]>yes, that works, but who do I specify the package input?
<g_bor[m]>in this example you name bash, that refers to the out output of bash, but my file is not in the out output.
<efraim>i'd guess ,(file-append foo:bar "/path/to/baz")
<efraim>without fancy ungexping
<g_bor[m]>that was my first try, but I get unbound variable foo:bar for that.
<g_bor[m]>I also see the same for mixed-text-file, but there the gexp trick works.
<g_bor[m]>I can wrap the file to something, and pass it to the service, but I would rather avoid that...
<efraim>i'm not sure then. the other place it recently came up was with the mysql service activation
<g_bor[m]>it seems hackish.
<g_bor[m]>ok, thanks.
<g_bor[m]>I will have a look at that
<smithras>if I'm packaging something that uses the pyqt webengine binding, do I need to depend on both pyqt and pyqt-webengine, or just pyqt-webengine?
<g_bor[m]>guess I could do something with computed-file, but not sure...
<g_bor[m]>I gave up and wrapper it.
<pkill9>how do i convert a package to a file path as a string, for use in a udev rule?
<pkill9>i'm making a udev rule that changes the permissions of a device when it's added
***deesix_ is now known as deesix
<mfg>Hi #guix, after updating i have som WARNINGs regardin incompatible bytecode and a binding override of `delete' from (guix build utils). Do i need to resolve this (if yes how?) or is it safe to ignore?
<bgardner>Good morning guix! I installed guile-squee but ran into problems when trying to (use-modules (squee)). Turns out GUILE_LOAD_PATH was not being set in $GUIX_PROFILE/etc/profile. Would this be a problem with guile-squee itself that I should open a bug on or is this something I could have caused with my setup?
<nckx>mfg: I think both are safe to ignore. Guix recently (last week?) switched from Guile 2.2 to Guile 3.0 and there's some minor fall-out that someone will surely fix soon.
<sneek>I'll keep that in mind.
<nckx>sneek: Forget it.
<sneek>Consider it forgotten.
<nckx>sneek: botsnack, silly bot.
<mfg>nckx: yeah i read about the guile3.0 release. Good Job :). Thank you for the aswer.
<nckx>bgardner: Do you have Guile installed into the same profile? Search paths are ‘requested’ by the consumer(s), not the provider(s).
<nckx>pkill9: (Too little context so just guessing): file-append, or using a gexp?
<nckx>Wherein package variables are automatically converted to the string representation of their path.
<pkill9>nckx: i want to point to a store path in the RUN+= section of the udev rule
<pkill9>i tried file-append but it said it expects a string
<pkill9>so maybe i need to use a quasiquote
<g_bor[m]>hello guix!
<pkill9>but a (string-append) is passed to udev-rule in the example, so i dunno why it's not evaluating file-append
<nckx>Maybe, that's the context I was talking about 🙂
<nckx>o/ g_bor[m]
<g_bor[m]>pkill9: I believe file->udev-rule might be better.
<nckx>Oh, of course there's a specific procedure 😃
<g_bor[m]>:) I am trying to hack my way around the nominatim setup script. It's a real pain, keeps on trying to modify my postgresql installation...
<pkill9>the solution is to pass a mixed-text-file to file->udev-rule
*pkill9 will make a function or record to make this simpler
<g_bor[m]>pkill9: yes, that looks like fine :)
<zap`>Hello guix!
***zap` is now known as zzappie
<civodul>hey hey!
<zzappie>civodul: Hey! Looking forward to see yor and Efraim's presentations on containers and environment management at FOSSDEM!
<efraim>speaking of which, does anyone know of a program to create ascii (or ansii) art?
<bgardner>nckx: I'll check and report back
<jboy>efraim: perhaps?
<bgardner>nckx: No, I don't - let me add that and go out and come back in again
<bgardner>nckx: Thanks very much, that resolves it. I'll do my best to remember that!
<civodul>zzappie: cool, thanks! you're into HPC?
<civodul>efraim: you working hard on your talks? :-)
*civodul is into it today
<efraim>my HPC talk is looking good, I wanted to add a snippet from a log showing that `rm` and others are missing from the container unless you add it
<efraim>my rust talk probably needs more work, and I want to pre-write a projector attach/detach script so it's ready
<efraim>and so I can test the output layout on my monitor
<efraim>although I did get distracted by finally starting a guix.vim project
<civodul>neat :-)
<civodul>do you plan to mention bootstrapping in your Rust talk?
<civodul>mrustc & all
<efraim>once we've built out to rust-$version it's ready to use
<efraim>I was more worried about the circular dependencies and lack of linking to libraries, those are easier to see day-to-day
<civodul>ah sure
<civodul>i guess that's the core of the talk
<civodul>it's good to mention bootstrapping in passing though to raise awareness and get people to help
<zzappie>civodul: I'm interested in HPC cause I'm into bionformatics. But currently involved in distriuted systems and using guix for building and ci.
<civodul>zzappie: neat! there are quite a few people here with similar use cases
<zzappie>efraim: I used asciimatics once. It's curses like ascii library with effects and animations :)
<pkill9>this is how a guix system works: you tell it what you want, and it puts al the piees in the right places for you
<zzappie>yeah you just need to speak it's language
<civodul>such a fine language, though :-)
<bandali>anyone use dunst here? i don’t seem to be able to get the notification actions to work. when i invoke it, nothing happens
<civodul>howdy bandali & mjw!
*civodul doesn't use dunst
<bandali>hi civodul :-)
<asterope>could anyone link to a guix configuration done in an org-mode file? I'm having trouble finding it myself...
<mjw>and yes, I haven't replied to the elfutils update bug review, sorry. I got distracted actually learning scheme/guile :)
<bandali>civodul, btw, i was wondering, there any reason why using a file:// local 'guix channel may be slower than using the main repo from
<civodul>bandali: what's slower exactly? :-)
<civodul>the first time you perform a full "git clone", so that could take time
<bandali>civodul, ah sorry, i meant doing ‘guix pull’ where 'guix is a local channel
<bandali>setting aside the one-time git clone time, of course :-)
<civodul>bandali: there's no reason for it to be slower, but again it depends on which step of 'guix pull' is taking time
<civodul>for example, provides substitutes most of the time for what you pull
<civodul>but if you have local modifications, you may have to build by yourself, which takes time
<bandali>right, that makes sense. for me, building guix-packages-base.drv and guix-system.drv usually take the longest
<nckx>bandali: I use dunst only for passive Hexchat pings, which work.
<bandali>nckx, ha, do you use its notifications actions?
<nckx>Let me look up what those are. So: no.
<bandali>haha, okay
<nckx>How could I test them?
<nckx>I don't have notify-send and installing things is a pain ATM.
<bandali>hmm, was gonna say erc notifications, but realized that actions aren’t present in 26.3
<bandali>basically, some notifications have ‘actions’ for performing an “action” when the user clicks them
<bandali>say, marking new email as read, or something like that
<nckx>So, buttons? Sorry, never seen those.
<numerobis>adfeno: I was happy not being the only one experiencing the issue. Thanks for tracking the commit that introduced the issue 8234fe653e61d0090138cbd4c48d877568355439. I'll try rolling back to the previous one for now.
<pkill9>is it possible to disable services from starting after bootup?
<civodul>pkill9: no generically; some services have special config options, though
<bandali>nckx, yeah. some notification daemons implement them as buttons, but with dunst, you have to press a key binding, and i believe it pipes them to dmenu or rofi or any other program you like, so you could choose from the available actions
<pkill9>it would be good to be able to disable them
<tsmish>Does anyone else have problems with sshd not starting on boot in desktop configuration?
<tsmish>Looks like it doesn't like NetworkManager.
<jlicht>hey guix!
<jlicht>tsmish: are you running Guix System on a spinning rust disk by any chance??
<numerobis>Oh, great, jupyter and python-testpath install again (but from substitutes, it seems) with the latest commit! Thanks civodul and to the other people who helped fixed this! :)
<tsmish>jlicht: if you mean hdd, then yes.
<tsmish>jlicht: it sure works fine with %base-services
<jlicht>tsmish: I had that issue as well back then, and I think it had to do with the pid-file-timeout being set a bit too low
<jlicht>during boot, my HDD was constantly busy doing I/O for the first ~60 seconds. After increasing this timeout in gnu/services/ssh.scm, line 502, I got it to work consistently.
<smithras>after a fresh install of guix system, do you need to manually edit your .bashrc to source the default profile?
***ng0_ is now known as ng0
<bandali>nckx, so the patch i sent for light seems to work in that it correctly copies/installs the udev rules file into the package’s lib/udev/rules.d/, but after adding that simple-service to my system, it doesn’t seem to work, and the permissions for the ‘brightness’ file remain unchanged :-(
<bandali>i do see a bunch of related errors for other brightness files in the rules file, which suggests that the service is indeed picking them up, but …
<jlicht>bandali: perhaps you should add it to the udev-configuration?
<bandali>jlicht, hmm, i’ll give that a shot i guess, thanks
<jlicht>it might just do exactly the same behind the scenes though :D
<bandali>right :-) i thought that’s what adding to udev-service-type was supposed achieve
<bandali>i guess i’ll try hand-writing the rule for udev-configuration and see if that works
<tsmish>jlicht: well, that seems to work. thanks. Also, do you know a way of modifying files without forking the entire guix channel?
<jlicht>tsmish: not that I know, sorry. You could open a bug report perhaps, so some sort of 'official' fix can be decided on
<bandali>jlicht, for (service … ) in my system config, can i cons* and modify-services on it at the same time?
<tsmish>On another note, I boot guix with root on LVM. If somebody is interested I can post this hack somewhere.
<jlicht>bandali: yeah, totally
<bandali>jlicht, thanks
<zzappie>tsmish: +1 sounds great
<zzappie>btw anyone heard of nextjournal?
<zzappie>I foundout recently that they use guix under the hood
<tsmish>zzappie: it is very sketchy. You'll also will need to convince grub configuration builder to emit "insmod lvm" somewhere at the beginning. Also multiple targets are unsupported, since system.scm breaks somewhere inside.
<bandali>jlicht, i think i found the issue: i forgot to substitute out the absolute paths for chgrp and chmod used in the udev rule
<zzappie>tsmish: thanks! Ill try it out
<jlicht>bandali: that makes sense, I'm looking forward to sudo-less light invocations :-)
<bandali>jlicht, :-)
*bandali too
<bandali>will send an updated patch shortly
<civodul>zzappie: Nextjournal folks are interested in Guix but AFAIK they're not using it in production
<bandali>civodul, can anything be done to improve guix-system.drv build times?
<civodul>bandali: it's complicated, see the recent discussion about speeding up "guix pull" on guix-devel
<civodul>but this is definitely something we should work on
<bandali>civodul, ah okay, will do, thanks
<bandali>and yeah, it’d be great to improve upon this
<emacsomancer>guix doesn't have a prebuilt emacs with the lucid-toolkit by chance, does it?
<bandali>doesn’t seem so :/
<bandali>i was thinking of writing one for myself, but feel free to beat me to it emacsomancer :p
<emacsomancer>I need/want it on a rpi - how rough is it going to be to get it working there, I wonder
<NieDzejkob>g_bor[m]: reading backlog, so idk if you got it yet, but #~(file-append #$package:output "path") is how I'd bet this would work
<jonsger>efraim: nice thing with guix.vim. I'll try out as soon as it hits master :)
<efraim>jonsger: thanks :)
<efraim>guix.scm is easy to pidgeon-hole as a package so it seemed like a good first target
<efraim>i might try to tackle the indentation next, but I'm still not sure about figuring out what's a scheme file and what's a guix file
<jonsger>efraim: so gnu/packages/*.scm is not yet supported?
<efraim>not yet
<efraim>it might be enough to do "look at the root of the project. is it guix? activate guix mode instead of scheme mode"
<NieDzejkob>smithras: I thought all the right exports are already in /etc/skel?
<efraim>and then continue from there
*efraim goes to tuck in the kids
<Blackbeard[m]>Hello Guix :D
<zzappie>Hi Blackbeard[m]!
<Blackbeard[m]>zzappie: :)
<adfeno>Hi there! :D
<adfeno>mbakke, numerobis, NieDzejkob: Is there any progress on the module-import-compiled error?
<numerobis>adfeno: with the latest commit, I no longer have any issue.
<adfeno>OK, I'll test here too.
<Blackbeard[m]>adfeno: hello
<adfeno>Hi Blackbeard[m] :D
***apteryx_ is now known as apteryx
<NieDzejkob>any lispy opinions on
<tsmish> Этот выпуск, конечно, великолепен! Тем не менее, обращают на себя внимание две вещи
<tsmish>1)Новая конституция и новое правительство с такими законами оказывается не лучше старого!
<tsmish>middleclick xorg paste strikes back
<bavier>NieDzejkob: heh. I'd use "square parens": "Linux [or BSD :)] would..."
<link2xt>looks like one of the advantage of guix over nix is that libraries have :static output
<link2xt>with nix I couldn't build static binaries in a nix shell
<thomassgn>humm, icecat's font is showing "font errors": Anyone know have ideas as what's wrong? My config is here:
<thomassgn>allright, so I reinstalled the fonts commented out in my config, and icecat is back to normal. How come it depends on fonts that aren't available?
<Blackbeard[m]>NieDzejkob: in that case I would use racket which can support images inside your code
<bavier>Blackbeard[m]: guile will happily ingest unicode source with emoji
<Blackbeard[m]>bavier: I didn't know that :)
<bavier>Blackbeard[m]: ;)
<apapsch>Hi, top shows 3 lingering zombies from guixbuilder user. The command is reported as "[conftest] <defunct>"
<apapsch>Is it expected?
<apapsch>I have a longer build running at the moment
<smithras>apapsch: during builds I often see several zombie processes, they should get cleaned up by the time the build finishes
*smithras has been working on packaging anki
<apapsch>smithras: good to know :-)
<smithras>thomassgn: I think that icecat doesn't depend on any particular font, it just uses the fonts installed on your system.
<smithras>If you don't have any installed icecat won't be able to render any text
<jeko>hey guixters! in the doc it is said nano has delimiter highlight feature but I don't have it on my guix system. how can i enable it ?
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<NieDzejkob>jeko: where in the docs (section number would be useful)? What is "delimiter highlight" - what is the expected behavior, if you were to explain it to someone who doesn't use nano?
<jeko>3.6.2 Proceeding with the Installation --> « ...We recommend GNU nano (see GNU nano Manual), which supports syntax highlighting and parentheses matching ...»
<jeko>NieDzejkob: To help me to see where is the matching parenthese of the one under my cursor
<civodul>jeko: good question, i think i'm the one who wrote that bit but i'm not sure how paren matching is supposed to work in Nano
<civodul>it probably worked back then
<civodul>"don't listen to them, they don't fave a fedora workstation :p"
<civodul>well done, roptat :-) ↑
<adfeno>smithras, thomassgn: Re: IceCat fonts: it doesn't depend on specific fonts, but I think it depends on fontconfig settings. However, I don't know how IceCat prioritizes the fontconfig matches found.
<apapsch>jeko: it should be activatable via this line in .nanorc: include /run/current-system/profile/share/nano/guile.nanorc
<adfeno>That is: I'm not discarding *the way* in which IceCat handles fontconfig matches (be it in Guix's copy of IceCat or IceCat's official copies, because I can't and don't know how to test if this is related to one of these)
<adfeno>s/I'm not discarding *the way*/I'm not discarding *a bug in the way*/
<apapsch>Interestingly, my user .nanorc already includes all other nanorcs. Maybe it's just not in the installer?
<jeko>apapsch: cool thank you i will try
<NieDzejkob>apapsch: well, is the file there on the installer?
<apapsch>jeko: also try this, which does paren matching (although by key press):
<apapsch>NieDzejkob: I don't have the installer around now, it was more a question into the void
*NieDzejkob is about to send a patch updating Go to 1.13
<apapsch>NieDzejkob: Meanwhile I'm trying to update gccgo to gcc 9 :-) the build is chugging along...
<kmicu>Guix is so mainstream nowadays 😺
<jeko>apapsch: i m gonna look at it too thank you
<NieDzejkob>sneek: later tell lfam: I've just submitted a patch to update Go to 1.13.6:
<sneek>Got it.
<civodul>kmicu: i think that's good new about NGIZero funding for Guix/Mes/bootstrapping stuff!
<civodul>but yeah, it's becoming super mainstream ;-)
<apteryx>interesting: ld: warning:, needed by /gnu/store/ldi41xyv1pmdm41pc0nl18jnywnldxai-imagemagick-6.9.10-68/lib/, may conflict with The result of having both libjpeg-turbo and another flavor in the bag of Inkscape 1.0 beta
<sneek>Welcome back apteryx, you have 1 message.
<sneek>apteryx, dsmith-work says: Re python 3 * " "; see (make-string 3 #\space) or (xsubstring " " 0 3)
<apteryx>I chose libjpeg-turbo explicitly because Poppler was using that one, but it seems ImageMagick begs to differ ;-)
<apteryx>oh, but I think I saw some commits mentionning libjpeg being obsoleted in favor of libjpeg-turbo?
***erdic_ is now known as erdic
<apteryx>indeed: commit a1552f52aa: (define-deprecated libjpeg libjpeg-turbo)
<jboy>(reposting earlier question): If I want to run a script in a guix environment, what would be a portable way to write the shebang? This example works on a foreign distro with guix, but afaik guixsd doesn't have `env`: guixsd doesn't have `env`
<NieDzejkob>jboy: guixsd has /bin/sh and /usr/bin/env as the only files in their directories, by default
<jboy>oh interesting. so the shebang would be portable. thanks, NieDzejkob
<alextee[m]>civodul: thanks for merging libaudec! if you're merging zrythm too, there's a new version out :)
<kmicu>NieDzejkob: jboy: did Guix System enable /usr/bin/env by default? In the past that required a user intervention.
<alextee[m]>oh just got the other email, nvm
<alextee[m]>if you add something to inputs, does that not mean that it's available at runtime?
<NieDzejkob>kmicu: According to git blame gnu/services/base.scm, this was added last September by nckx in commit a9162155975a131afa1e6a44262afbb7af91f7fd
<NieDzejkob>alextee[m]: not necessarily. Most runtime dependencies are figured out automatically by scanning the compiled files for store paths
<alextee[m]>NieDzejkob: what if you run something from xdg-utils using system() in c?
<alextee[m]>there's no way to find that out from the compiled files
<alextee[m]>how can i force it to be there? propagated-inputs?
<alextee[m]>ah i see, thanks :)
<NieDzejkob>though for xdg-utils, better patch the code to refer to the path itself
<NieDzejkob>see, for example
<kmicu>NieDzejkob: iiuc that adds /usr/bin/env to the service but service is not enabled by default.
<alextee[m]>ahh i see, thank you
<NieDzejkob>kmicu: wdym? it's in %base-services
<civodul>alextee[m]: oh, i missed the new version, next time!
<alextee[m]>civodul: no worries, will send another patch along with the xdg stuff :)
*civodul -> zZz
<kmicu>NieDzejkob: it is there, but is not exported.
<NieDzejkob>kmicu: but it's in %base-services. How would exporting a variable ever affect the services being included in operating-system?
<NieDzejkob>argh, when's the next core-updates merge?
<bandali>doesn’t seem to be set, but mbakke opened a thread for it today
<NieDzejkob>oh, great