Jul 31, 2008

Thursday July 31, 2008 Alan P. Olschwang

Theme: In Praise of Flattery

18A: Start of Samuel Johnson quote: JUST PRAISE

28A: Part 2 of quote: IS ONLY A DEBT

49A: Part 3 of quote: BUT FLATTERY

64A: End of quote: IS A PRESENT

From "The Rambler" # 155.

I have difficulty grokking this rambling quote. Samuel Johnson did think FLATTERY was more superior than PRAISE, right? I am simply so confused by the weird grammatical structure of "JUST PRAISE IS ONLY A DEBT". It sounds so wrong.

Not a bad puzzle, I like the lower middle part: SURGE, TEASER, GAZA, ZETA & GALLANTS, all quality fills.

I suspect our editor changed the EASING/SOFTENING corner of the grid, just as he did to Barry Silk's puzzle yesterday. This Olschwang might be a boring QUIP/QUOTE guy, but he is too professional to clue 2 ING's fills with 2 ING's clues: EASING (34A: Palliating) & SOFTENING (35D: Toning down). Very unpleasant eyesores.


5A: Banned orchard spray: ALAR. Wikiepedia says it's banned in 1989.

9A: Woo: COURT. Here is "How to Woo a Girl".

16A: "Lou Grant" star: ASNER (Ed). Learned his name from doing Xword. Have never seen "Lou Grant".

20A: Waste maker?: HASTE. And 52D: SWIFT (Speedy)

23A: Attends: GOES. Is "Attends" a good clue to you? I don't like seeing 2 GO'es in the puzzle. See 38D: Elapse: GO BY

24A: Model Macpherson: ELLE. She is beautiful. FLAB-u-less! (48A: Love handle).

33A: Hot time in Le Havre: ETE. Le Havre is here.

41A: Hosp. readout: ECG (Electrocardiogram). What's the difference between ECG & EKG?

43A: Cowboy's showcase: RODEO. What a daring RODEO Girl!

44A: People with pad: STENOS. Very interesting anagram: NOTES.

56A: Draw breath: LIVE. I had difficulty breathing seeing this clue.

58A: "Eyeless in ___": GAZA. Not familiar with this novel. GAZA strip yes, and the Golen Heights. I used to vodka him.

70A: Back of the neck: NAPE


4D: Eavesdrops: LISTENS IN

6D: Honored poet: LAUREATE. Who is your favoirte poet?

10D: Missouri feeder: OSAGE

19D: West point beginner: PLEBE. Also the first-year student at Navy Academy/Marine Military Academy. How come they named those freshmen as PLEBES?

42D: Gents: GALLANTS. Always thought GALLANT was an adjective only. Dictionary explains that GALLANT can also be a verb, meaning "To woo or pay COURT (to a lady)".

45D: Puzzling problem: TEASER

51D: Dam-building grp: TVA (Tennessee Valley Authority). Learned this acronym from doing Xword also. I have no idea what their responsibilites were/are.

53D: Desert greenery: OASIS. Plural is OASES.

54D: Refrain syllables: TRA LA. Crossword fills can be so whimsical, TRA, TRA LA, TRA LA LA.

55D: Too high-strung: HYPER. Here is the entrance to the French HYPERmarket Carrefour in Beijing.

59D: Greek letter: ZETA. This ZETA is Gorgeous.



Dennis said...

Good morning C.C. and fellow record-setters - I hope everyone enjoyed yesterday as much as I did - and I have a feeling that a year from now, we'll be saying, "remember when we only had a couple hundred posts a day?"
Blew through the puzzle this morning until I hit Arizona/New Mexico and came to a screeching stop. I was locked on 'cacti' for desert greenery, couldn't think of anything besides 'rapid' for speedy, couldn't come up with anything for orderly stored, and drew a blank on guarded. Wasn't until I got the end of the quote (present) that I was able to back into it.

How 'bout Dale Evans showing up a day after we talk about her? Thought of Lois with 'rodeo' - I'm sure she's having tryouts for her own private one.

C.C., great pictures this morning; thanks for getting the blood flowing.

Hope it's an outstanding day for everyone, and thanks for letting me be part of yesterday.

C.C. Burnikel said...

What does the quote mean?

Dennis said...

C.C., I'm not really sure - I understand flattery being a present, but I don't know if 'just' means 'merely' or 'merited'. A debt obviously means it needs to be repaid, but I don't get it - I'm sure one of our more astute members will have it. I'm still looking at elle and CZJ.

ndw said...

Good Morning C.C. and gang;
I haven't had much time to complete my puzzles let alone get on here and post.

I started out like a house on fire but came to a screeching halt with the qoute. I am not good with quotes anyway. Finally came here to get the last 5 or 6 answers I needed as it is almost time to go home.

Have a Great Day - I have to go have some testing done this morning - yeah!!!


Argyle said...

My take on the quote is that just praise is what you are due but flattery is more than you deserve and there for should be considered a present. The debt is what is owed to you and, therfore, wouldn't need to be repaid, whereas, accepting flattery, puts you in debt to the flatterer.

Argyle said...

oh, how rude of me...Good Morning.

someone may go/attend school.

no diference between EKG and ECG

Anonymous said...

i believe Olschwang felt just praise to be more important than flattery. just praise is only a debt", which means one is accorded the praise because they deserve it. it is your debt to make the just praise. on the other hand, flattery is not necessarily deserved, but usually gets the flatterer something for the comment, so it is a present, not earned by the recipient.

Katherine said...

Good morning every one. I had a problem with the lower middle section. I didn't get 56 A and I am not familiar with the novel 'Eyeless in Gaza". Elle and Zeta are beautiful. Especially Zeta.
Have a good day everyone.

Chris in LA said...

Good morning CC etal,
I, too, struggled in SW corner. I think swift is a terrific word - too bad it's not used more often.
Thought the "ell"/"elle" cross was a bit clumsy, but really liked "easing"/"softening"/"idle"/"flab"/"but flattery" crosses - very clever.
Hope all have a terrific day!

Kim said...

Morning everyone. Its been crazy here, been playing my Wii way too much!

I had a little trouble with this one. The top middle killed me. 6D was the culprit.

I too had cacti for the desert greenery. How can an oasis be greenery? Isn't it a water pool? Maybe I'm missing something.

Well, back to Zelda! My Wii fit comes tomorrow! Yeah! Have a great day!

Barry G. said...

Morning, all!

Nice puzzle with a decent quote for a change. I'm pretty sure the "just" in "just praise" means "merited". In other words, praise that you deserve is given as an obligation, whereas flattery is never obligated and is therefore always a gift.

No major snags with the puzzle today. A couple of false starts, including RTE instead of RDS for 65D, but nothing earth shattering. I'm not sure how I managed to pull GAZA out of my brain for 58A, but I did.

Sounds like I missed out on all the fun yesterday! I often don't have time to check back in later in the day...

KittyB said...

Good morning C.C. and all.

I managed to complete everything except the cross where GAZA and ZETA met. That darned 'Z'! At least now I know one more Greek letter.

C.C. - ECG and EKG both stand for Electrocardiogram. EKG is from the German spelling.

'plebe' is derived from the Latin word 'plebeian,' which is generally used to indicate middle or lower class. In this case it refers to the freshman class of the academies.

The TVA was created in 1933 to develop the Tennessee River valley, to provide increased production of electricity, improve navigation, handle flood control, and to provide jobs for an area hard hit by the Depression. I was surprised to learn that the TVA is still in existence.

Catherine Zeta-Jones IS gorgeous! Have you seen her in 'Chicago?'

When I started this, there were just four comments. By the time I hit enter, there will probably be 100. *G* Seize the day, and may it be a good one!

flyingears said...

"Giving only a praise is not enough, but to give flattery is better". That's how I understand this quote and I sort of like it.

The puzzle was just a breeze today.. Makes me feel good and "knowledgeable". Sometimes I am like a golfer. My score looks better than what I really shot!!! Golfers would understand what I mean...

Liar I could be with puzzles!!! I had to get the quote from Google.

Bill said...

Tried to post (what I thought) were interesting comments, but I was informed that the action had already been performed and I should go back and try again.
So, the crossword is done and I'll see ya later,

Jeanne said...

Morning all,

Loved the puzzle today. Not too much trouble. Congrats C.C. on record number of posts. The DF's had a ball yesterday; way to go.

Since I am a retired Business Educ. teacher, I actually know Gregg Shorthand and still use it occasionally when taking notes. It probably hasn't been taught for over 25 yrs. and I'm sure it hasn't been missed.

Kim: Would love to get my hands on a Wii. I also have been a game player since the very first Atari and "Space Invaders". We have had many different game units but didn't think I wanted the Wii. Had a chance to play it recently and I am hooked.

Great day all.

Danielle said...

I'm so early today - feels weird!

I felt like I was struggling with this puzzle, but once I was done, it didn't seem like it had been hard. No Googling, though I almost did, a couple of times, but got everything with fills and a couple of lucky guesses (and two trips to the dictionary). I liked the quote, made me think.

I filled SINGER JAMES with RICK before I realized my mistake - surely dating myself quite specificially!

I'll always associate ALAR with Meryl Streep (currently fabulous, as always, in Mamma Mia ) because she testified before Congress regarding the banning of it. This was before celebrities regularly went before Congress, so it was a big deal.

Have a great day!

melissa bee said...

good morning c.c. and all,

did the puzzle last night online. didn't really grok the first part of the quote until argyle's explanation, thanks.

@dennis: you are right, what are the chances of seeing DALE and RODEO today? SURGE (200+) and TEASER also. i am thankful for all of our GALLANTS.

my favorite poet is e.e. cummings. it is a nod to him that i type in lower case.

lois is that you on the rodeo horse? can you teach me to do that?

i guess we should call this the morning after .. any hung over dangling participles? i'll talk quietly and start the coffee ..

Dr. Dad said...

Good morning!

There is a BIG DIFFERENCE between EKG and ECG. EKG is electrocardiogram - the one where they put the electrodes all over and monitor the electronic signals from your heart. ECG is EChocardioGram where they use ultrasound to get a picture of your heart. It works like ultrasound to monitor pregancy. I have had both done as well as the thallium stress test and a catheter run up to my heart.

Only poet that comes to mind is Walt Whitman (free verse, "Leaves of Grass").

I'm all done because of Elle.
Yesterday was troll, today it's ogre.

Just in the quote means earned/merited. I think it's going on the assumption that praise is earned and might have to be repaid but flattery is not always earned or deserved and does not necessarily have to be repaid, i.e., a gift.

Today is Feast of Saint Ignatius Loyala Day.

Have a good one.

Argyle said...

sorry, drdad, but google disagrees.
Echocardiogram is known as echo although there was a class called ECH 101

KittyB said...

Ouch,! I hope you're well now, and won't have to do THAT again!

I'd stand corrected, but as argyle said, Google says otherwise. I checked with Wikipedia and they said that EKG or ECG are used interchangeably.

Clear Ayes said...

I thought the SW came pretty easily. My nemesis "Dale" Evans popped up very "Swift"ly to say "So there!" for my hubris yesterday. Maybe she was making sure that I didn't continue the fantasy that Roy and I could have ridden happily into the sunset.

Have an appointment this morning, but I'll be checking in later.

Happy Trails to all of you.

Crockett1947 said...

Good morning everyone! Not a bad "quoteday" puzzle for me. Never heard of "Eyeless in GAZA," had the wrong Greek letter (iota), and tried EKG for ECG for a while, but managed to adjust to get them all (I think).

Interesting information on Gallant as a verb. Making sense of a Johnson quote is always difficult for me. He was such a proper Englishman that I don't understand half of what he said. Where is Boswell when we need him?

Barry, we don't need Boswell when you're here. I like your analysis.

Melissa bee, do you know Piet Hein? His "Groks" are very similar to cummings. cummings is also my favorite.

Have a great day, all. Time to get into "Nellie Belle" and head in to my Thursday volunteer stint.

Dr.G said...

drdad, kittyb &argyle,

I wonder if the editors know the difference? Back in the day it was called EKG. ECG is probably due to English infusion. In any case, I don't believe echocardiogram results would be referred to as a readout. EKG's are printed in stips, ie readouts, as the clue is given.

Barb B said...

Puzzle was easy – no sports figures or rock stars. Alar never made an impression on me, but now I’ll remember.

Flattery is a gift? Perhaps, but I’ve always thought it just the opposite – just (or merited) praise is something I can really appreciate, because someone is recognizing my efforts. King David wrote that flattering lips speak with deception. That’s my personal experience as well.

My favorite poet is Emily Dickenson, or for that matter, anyone I can understand. I have trouble with most poetry because my mind doesn’t grasp the subtleties. I keep thinking ‘just say what you mean!’
Guess I’m hopeless.

Off to the sales, have a great day!

Anonymous said...

Good morning c.c., DF’s and all!

It’s xchef walt- stupid system had locked me out and I can’t remember my password.

My heart jumped this morning as I started the puzzle (which is usually around 5:30 am) for when I got to the quote my bleary eyes though they saw Samuel JACKSON, not Johnson. I thought: Wow- this may be interesting, like “Check out the big brain on Brad”, or “I hate these MFn snakes on this MFn plane!!”, but alas, I put on my reading glasses and was wrong.

Maybe that’s where these quip/quote writers need to go- quotes from pop culture and great songwriters like Springsteen, John Hiatt, Al Stewart, James Taylor and others. I think that would make these more fun and gettable.

I actually got OASIS on the first shot, the picture of lush foliage around the water popped into my head.

@melissa bee- e.e. cummings ROCKS. He’s my second favorite contemporary poet (Sylvia Plath is first), and “in just/spring” remains on of the best works in modern lit.

I must be quick today- lots of green beans and French fries begging to be sold.

c.c.- thanks for ALL the links, they made my morning.

melissa bee said...

@crockett: i had never heard of piet hein, or 'grook,' but google quickly remedied that. like him, thanks.

'making sense of a johnson,' ... cracked me up.

C.C. Burnikel said...

Good to see you back.

Barry et al,
Why can't the quote be "Praise is a debt, but flattery is a present". It would be much easier to understand. Isn't flattery an unjust form of praise?

I see you "soft" point. I just dislike the way EASING & SOFTENING were clued. ELL/ELLE intersection does look clumsy, though technically it's allowed since they are of different word origin.

Ditto your point on OASIS.

C.C. Burnikel said...

Thank you for the "PLEBE" & TVA.

I like your golf/puzzle score comment.

Thank you for the ALAR & Streep connection.

Barb B,
"Just say what you mean": Exactly!

Where does the line "I hate these MFn snakes on this MFn plane!!” come from?

C.C. Burnikel said...

Dennis et al,
I like this Samuel Johnson quote: "I will be conquered; I will not capitulate".

flyingears said...

drdad, ECG has also been used as EKG. I trained using the EKG abbr. The echocardiogram we called just "ECHO". Never heard being used as ECG, but things change a lot and some institutions may use such ECG for Echos...

carol said...

Good Morning C.C. and all you crazed d.f.'s: I thought I was so clever this morning, I thought I was going for a "Dennis time" on the puzzle, then I went to the rodeo called the SW Corner! Grabbed a cowboy by his love handles, felt a sudden rush, gave a satisfied sigh and toned things down.

Jeanne, we have had a WII for about a year and just love it! Mostly the golf but the bowling and tennis are fun too. They are hard to find and the stores cannot keep them is just have to be lucky.

Barb b, I am with you on the poetry thing....It mostly goes over my head.

Hope we all have a good, fun day!!

Anonymous said...

Hi all

yes, a strange quote, even after the explanations I am still unsure of the meaning.

Eyeless reminds me of a song by Andy Fairweather Lowe:

Wide eyed and legless

which of course us schoolboys (in the 1960´s) changed to:
wide legged and eyeless

such innocense!

I finished without help after an hour but what a strange description for plebe. I know of the Greek plebs and plebiscite,and I inserted the word but I was happier with cadet (which of course didnt fit).

I forgot to write:
mark - Buenos aires
I know you guys dont like anonymous but please forgive me for using the easy way to input.

regards to all

xchefwalt said...


xchefwalt said...

wow- that was more difficult than it had to be.

Dennis said...

barb b, I think your take on the quote is spot-on.

walt, that'd be great, to have pop culture quotes instead of the obscure stuff we're now fed.

melissa b, exactly how does one make sense of a johnson?

carol, you're having waaay too much fun with the crossword; congratulations!

c.c., great quote - thanks.

Barry G. said...

Barry et al,

Well, you'd have to ask Mr. Johnson exactly what he meant, but I assume it's because praise can be just (deserved) or unjust (undeserved). Flattery may very well be a form of unjust praise, but praise is not necessarily a form of just flattery.

For example, I could praise you for your ability to come up with great theme descriptions for every puzzle. If you actually came up with them on your own, the praise is just. If, however, they were printed in the puzzle and you were just copying them, the praise would be unjust. Either way, though, my comment would be praise and not mere flattery.

Anonymous said...

Hi, CC

Regarding the clues you didn't like with the "ing" - they have to be written this way so that the clues and the answers match in form. Same as plural clues for plural answers, or past tense clues for past tense answers.

Good puzzle today!


JD said...

Hi C.C. and all,
Today I decided it was time to time myself, as all of you seem to breeze right thru. 1 hr today. Had to look up some meanings, like palliating and takes umbrage, before moving on. I also wanted to put in cacti, and then riata for rodeo. Was not familiar with S. Johnson and enjoyed some of his quotes, like "Language is the dress of thought."

Plebians were the lower class in ancient Rome.Today "plebes" are the underclassmen in military schools, and end up polishing shoes ,etc for the upperclassmen.

Loved all of yesterday's comments, only had time to read, not write, while taking care of 11 mo old grandson.Had another lol with the morel.Didn't know that S. was divided up into 26 cantons. Never understood the smack addition, or switch addition. Is that where switcharoo comes from?

C.C.- thanks for all the additions
Did you notice that Gina Rowlands was pictured with Mia Farrow who was a link to Woody Allen? I went to school with her wayyyy back.

How come every time I sign in I have to reopen an acct? They don't accapt my password, but I resign and use the same password, it works.

Anonymous said...


What did I miss, concerning you, on June 28?
Is it a photograph? HELP!!!

g8rmomx2 said...

Thanks to all who welcomed me, and yes Dennis you can assume that I am not offended by anyone's comments and enjoy reading each one. This puzzle was pretty easy, got stumped on Gallants for awhile, but finally fell into place.

Crockett1947 said...

JD, maybe the system is in a funk. I don't know. I have to do that sign-in stuff sometimes multiple times before it finally lets me in. It can be frustrating, but it's worth the effort.

Good to see you got back in, Walt.

Jimbo, the June 28 reference was not concerning this blog -- it was on C.C.'s other one.

Mr. Ed said...

Good morning C.C. & all

Kind of a tuffy but managed to get it with the crosses filling in. The west coast caught me... went for lard first. Flashed on posts of a couple of days ago... especially with love handles/flab popping up on the east coast. I think of ogre in a Shrek form rather than a villain. The Princess was also an ogre but very sweet. Shrek was just a curmudgeorn. Dale/Rodeo/Imps/aah made me smile; (actually more lol).

Completely spaced out on Alar as in pesticide. I always think of Alar as in "winglike" due to past xwords I think. Anyway, my brain kept hanging with DDT.. wondering what I was missing. The "duh" light finally came on.

@walt I sympathize with the system lockout. I've had three non-destructive Trojans hit my system in the past two weeks... all new generation virus stuff. They're coming in through gaps in anti-viral/spyware software. The software writers are quickly plugging the holes but it's time consuming to keep having to take them out. The leaders; Norton, Trend & McAfee are putting out updates several times a day but that only addresses the past versions they know about. There's a lot of information phishing going on to learn about your computer habits. Those cookies may be innocent but they can also be a camera into your lifestyle. Btw... if you think you're safe with a firewall... got one!

Anyway, be good to each other and have FUN!!! My cats need me.

C.C. Burnikel said...

I understand about the tense and the plural/singular form consistency. I reserve my opinion on ING's though. EASING was clued as "Abatement" in a NY Times puzzle before.

George Zimmer @ 6:13am,
Thank you for leaving a message. Hope to see you again soon.

Thank you for the "Deserved" & "Undeserved". Now it makes sense. I like the way you explain things.

Yes, I did notice Mia Farrow, but I did not make the Woody Allen connection. Thank you for pointing it out.

June 28. Are you happy now?

Anonymous said...

Hi everyone,

Almost finished this one without help; But finally had to go to C.C. to finish the quote. Also wanted to use "gasp" for
56a. I think "live" is a poor answer for "draw breath". Of course, the perps led me to the correct answer.
My how this blog has grown!! I started watching when there were 20 or 30 comments. Now 200 plus.
Way to go C.C. you're da best!!!!

Anonymous said...

Yes, thank you C.C.
You are just the way I pictured you in my mind.
A very pretty lady with an IQ to match. What a catch for someone.

Anonymous said...

Hi cc etal,
I stumbled on your blog about 6 months ago trying to cheat w/ Mr. G. Up to now I have only read and laughed At the comments. I feel like I know everyone as old friends and I have learned so much. I started doing theses only a few years ago and when I retired from flying I started doing them more consistantly. Today is the first thursday/quip puzzle I actually finished without looking at your blog or cheating with Mr. G. I just wanted to say hello tell you how much I love your blog

Steve in San Jose

lois said...

Good afternoon CC & DF's: Good puzzle, flowed w/perps. Loved the reference to Dale and rodeo. Got the dope on being courted by a teaser. Yep, he's in serious peril 'cause his mug is going to need a surge protector from my other particular the union of their fists and his flab. See what flattery will get ya? Aah, just desserts! This is a little East of Eden, Buckaroo.

It's another hot one here but that's how I like it. Hot and spicey! Enjoy this gorgeous day.

lexi2 said...

Greetings to all - Samuel Johnson published his Dictionary in 1755, of which Noah Webster claimed that S.J.'s contribution to lexicography had been the equivalent to that of Newton to mathematics. Johnson described his Dictionary as "vasta mole superbus" (Proud in its great bulk)Here's a link to Johnson's intro to his Dictionary:
RE today's xword, loved the softening, flab and flattery intersections!

C.C. Burnikel said...

You are so sweet. I vodka you!

Congratulations on your first quip puzzle!

xchefwalt said...

Alllrighty, then. That was time out of my life that I’ll never get back. Why do they make us randomly make us sign in with user names and passwords when we’ve been regularly using the account? Don’t they realize that those of us in our middle 40’s have short term memory issues due to damage from a misspent youth? If it wasn’t for speed dial, I wouldn’t remember my home phone number, much less my user name and password.

Anyway- c.c. asked about my Sam Jackson quote. Sam Jackson is a fine actor with a good body of work (Pulp Fiction, Star Wars I, II and III, Die Hard with a Vengeance), but he did one “for the money”, an action/adventure called “Snakes on a Plane”, where he plays an FBI agent transporting a witness to trial, only to have his plane loaded with all kinds of poisonous snakes that bite and kill everything in sight. After a killing a large number of snakes, he screams out that line in classic Sam Jackson style. I’m sure U-tube has a great impersonation of him by Dave Chapell (it’s right on the money) and it’s very funny.

Speaking of U-tube- there is also a bit where Steven Wright and Chris Rock share the stage, and tell each others jokes. Maybe those of you who are not as technically challenged as I (c.c.- that’s politically correct for computer idiot) can get those links up.

lexi2 said...

Please share with me the meaning of the abbreviation "perps" and "grok" that some are using in this blog...I am afraid that I have been passed over by the texting/blogging lingo.

Dr. Dad said...

argyle - google is wrong. I had a heart attack about four years ago, albeit a minor one. My information comes straight from my cardiologist's mouth. I say again, I had an electrocardiogram, EKG, and an echocardiogram, ECG, along with a thallium stress test on a treadmill followed by a cathether in outpatient surgery. Cardiologists can't be wrong when it comes to knowing what they are doing with hearts.

Anonymous said...

I caviar you.

Frank L.

Jeannie said...

Too busy today tracking down a lost load of whoppers to do the puzzle today, but just popped in to read the comments.

Carl, thank God for the non-destructive trojans.

Getting ready for a nice long four day weekend of sailing. Bon voyage.

Mr. Ed said...



Gotta luv 'em!


Mr. Ed said...


pps or pss or whatever

Don't want to hear about no stinkin' tan lines when you get back.

back-at-ya with the bon...

Bill said...

Does Non Destructive mean wash 'n wear??

Crockett1947 said...

Jimbo, I agree with your carp on LIVE. I see lots of things around me that don't breathe, or don't even have the capability for doing so. Ever see an elm draw a breath?

embien said...

10:30 today. I might have posted here sooner except for the ELLE link.

I made the mistake of first putting in ENIGMA where TEASER was wanted and CACTI where OASIS should have gone and that took some time to sort out. I thought "Eyless in GIZA". Hmmm, could be....

No previously unknown words today, which may be almost a first for me.

c.c.: I owe you an apology. The other day you were asking for people's names that had FOREST in them and I said Ted Forest the well-known poker player. While watching NBC's "Poker After Dark" the other day, I realized my goof. It's actually Ted FORREST (with two R's), so he doesn't qualify. I feel so stupid since I'm a poker fan and should have known better.

And as for June 28: so cute, and pretty much as I had imagined (maybe a bit younger than I took you for).

Crockett1947 said...

Cokato, just so long as those trojans aren't non-operative. Have a safe sailing trip!

Crockett1947 said...

We used to have a nuclear power plant here in OR called the Trojan plant. It's out of commission now, but I often wondered where that came came from. Lois, any ideas? I'll bet Carol would know.

KittyB said...

Lexi2, I don't think C.C. will mind if I tell you that 'perps' is shorthand for the perpendicular clues and answers

'Grok' is a word created by Robert Heinlein in the science fiction work "Stranger in a Strange Land." Basically to grok is to understand something so completely that it merges with every atom of your being. Check out Wikipedia for more.

Clear Ayes said...

It's too bad Dr. Johnson didn't use the word "compliment", which is flattering, rather than "flattery", which can ring hollow. Poor c.c trying to make sense out of English, a language that keeps on doubling back on itself with different meanings for the same word used under different circumstances.

xchefwalt: How much fun it would be if there were more "pop" quotes. Samuel L. Jackson has had quite a few memorable quotes. Most of our favorites come from Pulp Fiction, including “Check out the big brain on Brad”. (Husband and I used that one quite frequently while watching Jeopardy.) The only problem with Pulp Fiction is that you have to see it at least 3 times to catch all the goodies going on in the background.

While discussing comedians the other day, I totally forgot about Dave Chapelle, a very funny guy we don't seem to see anymore.

I have a confession to make. My appointment this morning was with a ISP rep who was supposed to hook us up to a high(er) speed internet service. There was a glitch and he has to come back. So for now (here comes the confession) I am, and have been, logging in with a dial-up modem. Worse that that, even though the advertised speed is 56Kbps, our top speed is usually 26.4Kbps. So until Monday, no U-Tube, no big files, etc. I bet you all thought dial-up went out about 10 years ago. Sadly there are still pockets of prehistoric internet access in the U.S. and we're in one of them.

Crockett1947 said...

Clear ayes, my brother in Aptos (just south of Santa Cruz) lives where his home access is still dial-up. When he wants to get big files he has to drive into town to pick up Wi-Fi. So you're not the Lone Ranger there.

Hi-Yo Silver.......

Crockett1947 said...

Sorry, just horsin' around.

Crockett1947 said...

Stop Me, Stop Me.

Please don't nag.

Mr. Ed said...


I always wondered if the power plant was named after the horse... as in standing innocently outside the gate??? But that tall tower belching vapor looked like it needed a reusable wrapper of some kind.

@clear ayes.

Those speeds are prehistoric! 1.5 meg is now considered slow. But, here in the wooly west we do have areas the world has simply passed by. Hope you get up to speed soon.

lois said...

Dennis: I am sure that Melissa is more than capable of explaining how one makes sense of a Johnson, but I would be more than happy to demonstrate that for you.

Cokato: hilarious!

Bill: that's funny! wash 'n wear trojans...y'all remember what I 'toed' y'all 'bout reusin' them 'special raincoats', don't ya? gives ya 'root rot'..a woody fungus.

lexi2: perps are the perpendicular answers (coined by Dennis) and grok is a term that mh gave us a while back that means you are more than empathetic with whatever.

Carol: Love your handling of the cowboys, but in OK we don't ever tone things down, we grab another cowboy and keep those sudden rushes coming! Even a town called Rush Springs. Things are pretty wild over there, so I'm told. Haven't been able to get out of the wildlife refuge to find out.

Welcome Steve. You must know what you're in for then. Buckle your seat belt.

Clear Ayes said...

RE: Aldous Huxley, author of Eyeless In Gaza. Huxley was a colleague of Annie Besant, another fascinating person. After Besant's death, Huxley and other associates, J. Krishnamurti, Dr. Guido Ferrando, and Rosalind Rajagopal, built Happy Valley School in Ojai CA to reflect her ideals. My daughter was fortunate enough to spend her junior and senior years of high school at Happy Valley. (It was a whole lot less expensive for a day student in the late 1970's than it is now, and just forget about the boarding fees!)The school board of directors renamed it Besant Hill School in Ms. Besant's honor and multiplied the tuition according to what they thought the founders' reputations could bring in. Too bad because it started out as a school that would be open to kids from all walks of life and now it is a very expensive and exclusive ecole.

Barry G. said...


You're very welcome, and thanks for the nice compliment. My entire job revolves around explaining things to people, so I've had a little practice.

carol said...

Anybody remember the comedian that did: Ray J. Johnson, Jr., You can call me Ray, or you can call me Jay, or you can call me Ray J, but ya'doesn't hassta call me Johnson. Or something close to that. Also there is: who's the guy with the big Johnson? Those big guys don't have to make sense...makes me sort of long for the puff adder.

Anyway, I go for a bike ride and now we are talking Johnson's and Trojans!
So who's up for badmitton oops I mean badminton :) :0

lexi2 said...

@kittyb - aha! Now I grok perps!

Many thanks!

Barry G. said...

Oh, sure. That was Bill Saluga, Carol. Funny guy!

Jeannie said...

Carol they go hand in hand don't they? One to hold it one to unfold it?

lois said...

Cokato: sounds like 'poker' hand.

Jeannie said...

Lois, it is...a royal flush in a full house.

carol said...

As they say,"ya hafta know when to "hold" em....

carol said...

Barry, thanks so much for remembering that name!! He was "short-lived" but very funny, too bad he didn't expand on his material.

KittyB said...

My pleasure, Lexi. I joined the group in early June, and I think it was barb b who first used the term 'grok' in a post.

Lois says that Dennis came up with the term 'perp.'

Crockett1947 said...

Kittyb, GROK was actually an answer in a puzzle, and I posted my confusion, which was soon cured by this wonderful community. Now it shows up on occasion.

Argyle said... examination of the heart should be "echocardiography." Unfortunately the abbreviation for an echocardiogram would be ECG, which was already pre-empted by electrocardiography.

Harvey Feigenbaum, M.D. citation

drdad - we are agreed the two procedures are different, yes? But ECG and EKG apply to electrocardiograms only.

On a lighter note, if R.W. Eaks wins the US Senior Open, how long will it take for his name to show up in a crossword? ( I could not find what the R.W. stands for.)

Mr. Ed said...

hmmmmmmmm! Here's to Happy Valleys everywhere!!!!

Crockett1947 said...

Argyle, TMI! Was I correct yesterday?

Crockett1947 said...

Carl, how about Grand Canyons?

Clear Ayes said...

Ahhh, Carl, I always thought Happy Valley was a doofus name for a school, but I never thought of it with any other connotation. Now, I won't ever think of it otherwise. :o) I'll have to email (at 26.4Kbsp) daughter and tell her what the wiseguys (literally) have been saying

Argyle: If the xwords ever concentrate on golf trivia, my husband will join me in this hobby. He is a late blooming addict. He was one of those guys in his 50's, who thought golf was the dumbest, slowest game ever. All it took was being talked into joining a couple of rounds and 17 years later he's a 3X a weeker(that's golf I'm talking about, Sirens!!)

Anonymous said...

An electrocardiogram (ECG) is a test that records the electrical activity of the heart. EKG is abbreviated from the German Elektrokardiogramm.
Analysis of the various waves and normal vectors of depolarization and repolarization yields important diagnostic information.
* It is the gold standard for the diagnosis of cardiac arrhythmias
* It guides therapy and risk stratification for patients with suspected acute myocardial infarction
* It helps detect electrolyte disturbances (e.g. hyperkalemia and hypokalemia)
* It allows for the detection of conduction abnormalities (e.g. right and left bundle branch block)
* It is used as a screening tool for ischemic heart disease during a cardiac stress test
* It is occasionally helpful with non-cardiac diseases (e.g. pulmonary embolism or hypothermia)
Please see the web pages for more details on ECG.

C.C. Burnikel said...

Xchefwalt, Clear Ayes & Bea,
Further to your discussion on Irish music yesterday, I really adore "The Corrs".

Re: R. W. Eaks. Very interesting name indeed. He just won 3M Championship held here in MN.

I googled Ted Forrest on Monday after reading your post and did notice the spelling difference. I made the same mistake with Forrest Gump.

carol said...

Clear Ayes: There are 3 stages in a man's life:

Tri Weekly
Try Weekly
Try Weakly

C.C. Burnikel said...

FIFE: St. Andrews. Remember I mentioned this potential clue on June 10 TMS puzzle? I believe this is the first time ever FIFE is clued as "Country of St. Andrews" in any crossword puzzle. Someone is reading my blog, I am so excited!

Mr. Ed said...

Just here to work it out to a satisfying....... Hmmmmmmmmmmm! Grand Canyons? That would probably take a "big hummer"?
Or, a creative one anyway.
Seems like a morel issue here.

Clear Ayes said...

c.c. Congratulations on the use of your clue. That is really wonderful.

RE The Corrs: Before they became the band "The Corrs", the Corr sisters and brother appeared in the movie "The Commitments" that we talked about yesterday. After yesterday, I pulled out my old VHS version and watched it last night. Yes, I still have some VHS tapes. That along with my dial-up modem and the fact that I don't own a cell phone (we really are a Dead Zone here) puts us squarely in the Mesozoic. Watch out! There goes a brachiosaurus.

Crockett1947 said...

C.C., I'm confused (once again). Where is the FIFE: St. Andrews clue/answer pair? I don't see it.

carol said...

Carl, Maybe a big Johnsonville Brat?

carol said...

Crockett, I missed the FIFE clue too.

CC: congratulations on the use of your clue idea!!

C.C. Burnikel said...

Clear Ayes,
I've netflixed "The Commitments". Thank you for the recommendation yesterday.

Crockett1947 & Carol,
It's in NYT's puzzle today. One of our fellow TMS solvers tipped me off. He also solves NYT every day. Then I went to Rex Parker's blog and found Barry's comment... and I laughed.

Mr. Ed said...


Oooooh! I'll bet one of you sirens could answer that much better than I but I assume it would do something... if it was properly prepared. A little bit of this... a little bit of that...
maybe slow simmered...

Clear Ayes said...

Here's c.c.'s comment on the June 10th puzzle

"6A: Small flute: FIFE. Those who love golfing might be aware that St. Andrews Golf Course is on the east of FIFE, Scotland. The 2010 British Open will be held there again."

Argyle said...

hey crockett1947, man. you were right on, man. Right On

Peace, brother.

lois said...

Carl: There's Cave of the Winds, which is 'south' of the Happy Valley area or not far from the Grand Canyon. It can be used as a kind of landmark, a guide to the valley/canyon region. It does have a ton of bats, which reminds me of haranguing the batter with "Come, baby, come, baby, come, baby!" when we were kids..or just last night.

Carol: the 'try's were really cute

carol said...

Hey Carl and Lois, there is a "tunnel of love" in that area as well.

Clear Ayes said...

argyle and crockett1947: I used to have a brownie recipe you might like, but with all the fires around here, I'm afraid it went 'up in smoke'

lois said...

Carol: there is also the la brea tar pit west of the canyon, for fossils and extensive exploration. Never know what you'll find! Yippee 'K Y', baby!

Argyle said...

lol So you have a built in excuse for a little red in them clear eyes, clear ayes. Oh wow, that was like a stutter, far out.

carol said...

Lois, don't forget death valley for those who "over-explore", shall we say?

Clear Ayes, too darn bad about that brownie recipe, I used to have one too and somehow the same thing happened to mine!! :) Those were crazy days, weren't they?

MH said...

I don't think I've ever checked in this late. Internet was down at my house this morning (DSL not working < 9600 baud dialup). I had no idea that this blog gets up so high by the end of the day - 104 comments at this posting. Of course most of it is chit-chat and teasing but still ;-)

Good puzzle today. Gallant had me fooled for a while and I put GABA and BETA instead of GAZA and ZETA. Close but no cigar. Hope to be on time tomorrow - back to my number 17 or 18 slot. PS: how do you guys manage to check and respond all day long? Even with a Blackberry I have a difficult time finding time to read all the comments.

lois said...

argyle: that's brilliant and hilarious! One could get away with smokin' brownies all day long. Those little girls are sooo lucky!

Crockett1947 said...

Clear ayes, nope, not for me. Never indulged and don't ever plan to. I just recognized the routine from a Christmas CD that my wife has.

Crockett1947 said...

Lois, your 7:35 comment is right up my alley. You crack me up!

carol said...

mh, we have no "lives", man, we just sit around all red eyed, bent over, and listen to the wind whistle down the canyon!! :) LOL don't ya love it!

lois said...

Carol: LMAO...but speak for yourself about the wind whistlin' down your canyon. I am also red eyed but I prefer a different position than 'bent over' and something other than whistlin' coming in my canyon. MH, we're both just layin' around. Tough job, but somebody's gotta do it.

Dennis said...

Well, I was just gonna read the blog tonight since I didn't have anything constructive to add, but I have to ask: Carol, can you play tunes?

carol said...

Of course, how 'bout "Whistle while you "work"" :)

Clear Ayes said...

xchefwalt: Just finished dinner and wanted to send a big thank you for the polenta tip a few days ago. I had never made it before, but with a little encouragement, I used inexpensive Quaker brand corn meal and followed your advice. Delicious! Topped it with some semi-homemade marinara, added a salad, garlic bread, a nice cabernet and we were happy diners. I won't be shy about making it a "company menu".

xchefwalt said...

@clear ayes- Sorry I’ve been gone so long, been perfecting my “black tar” brownie recipe and got a sudden urge to consume my entire fridge.

Seriously, comments like yours are why I love to share my recipes. Thank you for your kind words and don’t hesitate to ask again (as long as it doesn’t have to do with baking; I HATE baking- only know how to make key lime pie, chocolate amaretto cheesecake, bourbon and chocolate pecan pie and crème caramel /brulee and above mentioned brownies).

xchefwalt said...

The damn thing keeps making me sign in! What's up with that?? It's a good thing the drugs haven't kicked in yet

Dennis said...

walt, I've always been fascinated by cooking but can't cook a lick; how'd you get into it?

MH said...

xchefwalt: try logging in to Google before you navigate to the blog. Check the box that says to leave you logged in on this computer. If that doesn't work, well, ask an expert ;-0

MH said...

Walt, just getting around to dinner out here in Calif. I have a favorite pork loin recipe that I'd like to share (Lois, no lewd comments about pork loin ;-). Cut your pork loin lengthwise but not all the way through and open it like a book. Season the inside with a mixture of cumin, salt and pepper. Put about 3 tbs of fruit bits (dried fruit soaked in water) in and close it up tying it with kitchen twine. Use some more cumin mixture to season the outside. Bake at 375 for 50 minutes (160F). Let it set for 5-10 minutes and slice it into medallions. Serve with green vegetables and/or small potatoes. MMM. I can smell it cooking in our oven right now!

Jeannie said...

Dennis, try watching a couple of foodnetwork channels. It is mostly experimentation...isn't everything worthwile that? I would recommend Tyler's Ultimate (and sirens wouldn't you recommend his ultimate)? If not you should tune in. I was blessed to grow up with a Mom who was a Home-Ec teacher and learned to cook/bake at an early age. Sorry to say she wasn't that good at writing down recipes (especially with baking) as they were all in her head.

Carl, Dennis, Drdadd, Crockett, and Dick, what about the Grand Tetons, what nice peaks.

Carl, packing for the sailing trip, (sans b-suit) Gotta tan the valleys and peaks.

Friday night for me, enjoying a couple of "adult beverages" after my lost whopper fiasco.

xchefwalt said...

@mh- it just started behaving like this today, and I can’t figure out why. I like the pork recipe. I use to something similar and served it with tequila, lime and mango salsa.

@dennis- I had to learn to cook at an early age. My parents’ divorced at 10, and as the oldest, had to figure out how to cook things so we weren’t eating grilled cheese sandwiches every night. I’ve always had an artistic bent, and made some money singing, acting, writing and working in the recording industry, but I never was able to earn a living (big difference between making money and earning a living). About 23 years ago I was a paralegal in Citibank’s commercial division in Manhattan, hating my life when I walked in front of the NY restaurant school and a light bulb went off- a way to be creative and artistic AND earn a living. The rest is history.

It’s a brutal way to earn a living. The hours, nights, weekends and holidays are hard on a family. In winter here in Florida, it would be common to put in 75-85 hours a week, and maybe get four days off total for February and March combined.

As far as cooking yourself, just be natural- don’t get in over your head or try something just because it looks “haute”. And remember, one success comes from many failures- learn from them and use that knowledge the next time. You won’t be Bobby Flay, but you’ll enjoy the experience more.

Good night, all. I’ll be back tomorrow.

Jeannie said...

clearayes, I couldn't leave it alone...3x a week....lucky lady. Even if he is off golfing. What are you doing then?

Crockett1947 said...

Mh, that sounds yummier than the plain ol' pork loin I did tonight. I'll have to remember that for the next time.

Cokato, the Tetons are lovely, but I like Grand Fountain geyser as well. It builds up slow and when she blows it's very impressive. Hot water all over the place. My kind of fun, LOL!

Bless my mother for allowing me into the kitchen. She taught me to be very self-sufficient. Thank goodness 'cause I'm the cook (and chief bottle washer) around here.

Jeannie said...

Crockett, where exactly is your Grand Fountain geiser? Sounds intriguing.

Anonymous said...

'Tis late, and my bed awaits." Started today O.K. in the northern hemisphere of the puzzle, but had to leave for a golf outing I sponsored for kids with leukemia. Hot and humid in S.W. Ohio, but we did well.

Surprised no one picked up on my comment about the H.G.Wells' reference to drdad's Santa message. Obscure or obtuse? Please let me know.

How come all of you have these cute, little orange things next to a BLUE UNDERLINED name and I'm in plain black? I feel like anon: troll. I've erred on this site but apologized and found ya'all will forgive one stupid mistake. I hope anon will "see the light."

c.c. feel free to delete this but my new c/w song is entitled, "I hate every bone in her body but mine."

Good night sweet prince. I must be off.

Crockett1947 said...

Cokato, not far from those Grand Tetons -- the Middle Geyser Basin in Yellowstone -- a bit off the beaten pass, kinda back in the woods, but not very private because there are a lot of fans.

Crockett1947 said...

Buckeye, I think it's because we have Blog accounts and log-on with them to make our comments.

Clear Ayes said...

buckeye: I think to have the cute orange button and the underline blue name you need to be a "Google/Blogger". You may be signing in under the "Name/URL" line. I'm not an expert but I "dotted" the Google/Blogger line and signed up for a Google account. Voila, instant acceptance and non-trolldom. Have a nice evening everyone.

Anonymous said...

clear eyes, here goes.

carol said...

Buckeye, your last c/w title had me ROTFL !!! Eiyeeeee yipppie K'Y'!!

Anonymous said...


melissa bee said...

@buckeye: whatcha need?

Anonymous said...

Well, it seems the 19th hole and Mr. Glenfiddich got to me. I'll try the blue stuff after my liver surgery.

I lived in Billings, Mt. for 12 years-my."x" and daughter, son-in-law and two beautiful grandkids are still there and I've been to Yellowstone and Glacier Park, along with the "Le Grande Tetons" (The three large Breasts), many times. Used to primitive camp in those locations. Discuss as you will, there is no one place that surpasses another. The entire basin is a remarkable slice of creation.
I must be off.

Mr. Ed said...

I'm only hit and miss today and hard to keep up... but hmmmmmm.... I'll bet those tetons are grand... That tar pit doesn't sound like much fun at all. Quicksand for old fossils. Probably need a raincoat there...

melissa bee said...

tied up with work today but ...

@argyle & clear ayes: really enjoyed your posts today, glad you're here.

Anonymous said...

Melissa bee, what I want is to be thirty years younger, better looking, 15 lbs lighter, abs of steel, more intelligent and a god given personality. Then maybe I'd ask you to go camping with me. Fun and games; so don't take this as anything but fun.

Crockett1947 said...

Well all, time to call it a day. I think it's time for a two-dip ice cream sundae with lots of whipped cream and a cherry on the top. CYA.

Anonymous said...

melissa bee. I noticed in your bio you mentioned zen, Have you read "The Zen Way" by The Venerable Myokyo-ni. It's a must. Pick it up. May you're lotus blossoms be fragrant and smooth.


Anonymous said...

Carol; Thanks for the c/w comment. Sometimes I throw out things that are dismissed. That's OK, but it's fun when someone picks it up.

Anonymous said...

Carol: sorry, "Picks THEM up"

melissa bee said...

@buckeye: i grok your wants, and i'd go camping or backpacking with anyone. have read and loved 'the way of zen,' by alan watts, but not 'the zen way,' will look it up, thank you.

my lotus blossoms are tended carefully.

Mr. Ed said...

Seems like I'm the last man standing tonight. So, I'm gonna turn out the lights and look at the stars. G'nite y'all.