

Wednesday, December 16, 2009







BC said...

Sear all,
Any rele
Regards.vance to Armed Forces?

Chanakya said...

Maj Navdeep. What will be the impact on the armed forces. Could you throw some light on this ?

Navdeep / Maj Navdeep Singh said...

No impact.

Anonymous said...

How sad that its not applicable for Armed Forces, although we dont come inder Gp A civil services but we are Gp A services also, only that in connotation we are not Civil but Defence.Cant we do anything, even NONFUNCTIONAL Financial Upgradation is also applicable for us. Even COL TS at 18 in a limbo. Maj Navdeep your views on how to make this applicable for Defence Forces in near future.This stands for UNIFORM PROMOTION POLICY as well as NONFUNCTIONAL FINANCIAL UPGRADATION both.

Anonymous said...

Navdeep - it will have an indirect impact on the Armed Forces Most civil servants will now retire in the slab 67000-79000 with a Gd pay of 14000 and this will be their calculation for pension. Whereas most Armed forces officers will retire at 37400 -67000 with a Gd pay of 8700.(with no addl under the counter allowances) MAKESA LOT OF DIFFERENCE WHEN YOU"RE 55 AND HAVE TO SURVIVE IN THIS CORRUPT INDIA AMONGST THE SAME PEOPLE WHO WOULD RETIRE 5 Years later and also fleece you of your hard earned pension by way of miscellaneous expenditure for house approvals, and other govt work.

Anonymous said...

The impact should be, that a complete review of equivalencies vis a vis the civil govt services should be carried out, and it should be determined, that time in service be used as a criteria to determine seniority.

Going by time served as a commissioned officer, the following should be the equivalencies:

1. 2Lt(Rank reinstated) = GP 5400

2. Lt = GP6600

3. Capt = GP 7600

4. Maj = PB4 GP 8700

5. LtCol = PB4 GP 8900

6. Col = PB4 GP10000

7. Brig = HAG (67000-79000)

8. Maj Gen = Hag+ (79-80000)

9. LtGen = 80000 (Fixed)

10. Army Cdr = 85000 (Secys to GoI also can be raised to this new scale. They would prefer the old superiority over IPS DGP to be reinstated anyway, as CS, Secy to GoI, Army Cdr, etc were all in 26000 (Fixed) earlier, while DGP was 24050-26000).

11. Army Chief = Remains 90000 (Fixed)

This is a perfectly reasonable scale, and if presented in the correct light to the government of India, there is no reason whatsoever it should not be accepted.

Velayudhan said...

Dear Maj Navdeep,

Its good piece of info and thanks for the same.
This disparities are already existing. But is there any one who can bell the cat and get some justice to AF also.
With non financial gains, how about officers who has gone home without picking up ranks of Brig/Maj gen due to lack of vacancies at that particular time.Are they auth for any financial gains or at least the ranks?

With regards

Harry said...

@ All

Impact will be akin to rubbing salt to raw wounds of Armed Forces!! Or adding insult to Armed Forces' injury !!

Now we know where we stand !!

Harry said...

@ Maj Navdeep


What a CRUEL IRONY!! People were nursing fond (or more appropriately, shall we say false?) hopes of Col @ 18 yrs today i.e Vijay Diwas and what do we get to read instead... :-(

Even if we NOW ask for Maj Gen @ 18 yrs (even if on non functional basis) we would STILL be behind even Central Group A Services by 1 yr + Training time(varying from 9 to 18 months), parity with AIS Cadre be DAMNED!! HOWZZAT?

PS: BTW as per quoted DoPT letter min service requirement for HAG is SAG + 3 yrs i.e 17+3 = 20 yrs and NOT 25 as you mentioned. Isn't it?

Navdeep / Maj Navdeep Singh said...


Please do not read too much into the letter.

It does not result in promotion to SAG in 17 years for the civil services. It merely prescribes the minimum service requirement. Already the minimum service requirement was between 16 to 18 years for most of the Organised Group A services and the bar has been rationalised for all by prescribing it @ 17 years.

Similarly, the Army also has a system of min service, which is as follows :

Col 15 years
Brig 23 years
Maj Gen 25 years
Lt Gen and Army Cdrs 28 years

Also, the following is the service prescribed for Acting promotions :

Brig 12 years
Maj Gen 20 years
Lt Gen 25 years

But just as the above min service limits do not mean actual promotion on ground in the Army, similary principle is applicable on the civil services too. These service limits would not translate into actual faster promotions except in a few 'lucky' services.

I hope this clarifies.


Anonymous said...

@ Navdeep December 16, 2009 2:09 PM
Maybe you could also clarify the Number of service officers who make it to Maj Gen versus the civil cadre offrs who make it to JS (Because that is what THEY claim equivalence upon)
Though if the Service HQs stands up and says that taking the SCPC letter in spirit Grade pay is not to be taken for equivalence and post Lt Cols in lieu of JS on deputations then in the next PC we can do unto them what they did unto us. Q.E.D

Navdeep / Maj Navdeep Singh said...

@Anony 2.48

My last comment in no way was a justification for the slow promotions in the defence services.

Anonymous said...

Navdeep : December 16, 2009 2:52 PM

Service conditons are also to be considered when fixng Pay & allces. Slow promotions due to a pyramidical establishment vis-a-vis assured promotions in a a cylindrical establishment is a service restriction and has to be adequately compensated for.

Harry said...

@ All

Someone pls clear my mind on the following:-

- Pyramidical structure of Armed Forces is a well known fact to even my Granny, but is it to be held against them? Is it the fault of Armed Forces? Do Armed Forces NOT exist for the Nation? So is it NOT for the Govt to ensure that Armed Force get their due?

JB Singh said...

The fact of the matter is that appointments are, generally speaking, rank based in the army - and it is necessary to have it so. It is GENERALLY not so in the bureaucracy. So, to function, we require a rigid rank system which is necessarily pyramidal, and they do not.
The only way out is to delink rank and pay scale. This will be a sisyphian task as the opposition to it will not only be external but internal. No General Officer will like that a mere Brigadier draws as much as him just like no Colonel will like a mere Major doing so.
We are more rank conscious than our civilian counterparts. We, in the defence forces just ADORE hierarchies. Witness how two army officers meeting for the first time jockey around trying to figure who will 'sir' whom. And we pay for it - as our object of attention turns out to be the cause of our own bete-noire, in a manner of speaking.
Anyway, rants apart (no pun intended)- we need to delink salaries from ranks and not use them for establishing equivalence.

Rajababu said...

only solution to the problem of armed forces is to give a differential pay (ie graded pay within the same rank) to bring in parity without actually promoting. this implies only ur scale changes but the rank does not. this i hope will solve the problem. navdeep is this feasible? pse throw some light.

Anonymous said...

Promotion policy for different armies:-

US Army : Col at 16 years of service

Chinese Army : Col at 18 years of service

Indian Army....?

Can we ever match up?!!!

Anonymous said...

Dear Major,
Seen & perused your equivalence chart, it is fair but it is not implemented in MES. In MES officers of Gd pay 10000/- report to a Maj Gen having same Gde pay and same status.Should the army not go in for quick cadre reviews and demand same %age of higher level posts as in civil services and upgrade the command appointments.

Chanakya said...

Latest on 18 yrs Col. Air Force top brass has been asked to give their views on 21 yrs Gp Capt/ Col / Capt (IN). So I guess 18 yrs Col seems to be a myth propagated by "Whispers in the c.....r". Their views are not encouraging.......

Anonymous said...

Maj Navdeep, the Nonfunctional Financial upgradation confirmed that those Gp A Civil officers who doesnot get promoted will get the pay of MajGen (Gd Pay of 10000) after 17 yrs of service as definitely one of their batchmate will make it. Now this means whole batch of GP-A services officers after 17 yrs of service will have Gd Pay of 10K irrespective of his empanelment or nonempanelment.The disparity with Defence GP A officers,if not rectified NOW, will have its effect in next pay comn, when pay parity issue come to the fore. Well Maj Navdeep, this is my thinking, and I may have wrongly interpreted, please correct me, if I a have misinterpreted please.You are always the best be it providing advance information or guiding properly.Regards

Anonymous said...

Let us clean our house first..we ourseleves have different policy of promotion for differnt branches,corps etc.....after all every one is selfish to the core....

Anonymous said...

let us clean our own house first ..we also have different policies for different brfanches, corps etc.......

Anonymous said...

Maj Navdeep please give your valuable comment in response to Anonymous at December 17, 2009 9:09 AM. Thank you and Regards

Anonymous said...





Anonymous said...

Maj Navdeep pl help us by giving your valuable comments.17 yrs equivalent to Maj Gen for all Gp Officers, what about Defence Officers?

Anonymous said...

Is it true that the facilities provided to Military service are different from those of the Civil services? How can the comparison be made then amongst various services? For eg, in a peace station, head of a military unit irrespective of the rank gets a staff vehicle where as in most of the group A services, only a JS can get a staff car.Yous should stop thinking that you are being cheated upon.

Unknown said...

sorry to differ with you.. in a peace station only Brig and above get the staff car... and thats equivalent to an IG or similar thing in the civil services/... and about service tenure.. may be one and halt times more than the civ counterpart.. about competition.. only aroung 12-15% make it to that rank...