I2P dev meeting, June 4, 2002 @ 23:00 UTC


Quick recap

  • Present:

AndreGoldman, Aroonkoa, Banks, codeshark, cohesion, ellison, k, mids, Neo, nop, Phiberoptika, UserX, Zwolly, Zwollywood,

Volledige IRC Log

--- Log opened Wed Jun 05 00:38:00 2002
00:38 <+logger> logging started
00:38 <@codeshark> already?
00:38 <+logger> yes, warming up
00:49  * Annemiek is nu afwezig [Slapen/sleeping] [p-uit l-uit]
00:49 -!- Annemiek is now known as keimennA
00:59 <@nop> time
00:59 <@nop> what time is it
00:59 <@codeshark> 22:59 UTC
01:00 < ellison> drumroll.....
01:00 <@codeshark> 23:00 UTC
01:00 < Zwollywood> 1:00
01:00 <@mids> Tue Jun  4 23:00:50 UTC 2002
01:01 <@mids> lets start
01:01 <@nop> ok
01:01 <@nop> Welcome all
01:01 <@nop> to the 3rd meeting
01:01 <@nop> of IIP
01:02 <@nop> Today is probably a shorter meeting
01:02 <@nop> but that's not exactly a bad thing
01:02 <@nop> so anyway
01:02 <@mids> on request of some europeans the meeting is held 1 hour earlier, nop is busy working, so he might be away
01:02 <@nop> let's get started shall we
01:02 <@mids> Previous meeting has logs on http://mids.student.utwente.nl/~mids/iip/meeting2/
01:03 <@mids> if it will get crowded, this channel will be moderated, in that case direct your question to those with ops
01:03 <@nop> ok
01:03 <@nop> agenda
01:03 <@mids> 1) Welcome
01:03 <@mids> 2) Documentation status
01:03 <@mids> 3) RC2 compatibility
01:03 <@mids> 4) IPv6 support for IIP 1.2
01:03 <@mids> A) Questions?
01:03 <@mids> B) Next meeting
01:03 <@nop> welcome
01:03 <@nop> on to 2
01:04 <@mids> Thanks to Banks a lot of holes in the docs are filled
01:04 <@mids> he added screenshots for windows
01:04 <@mids> and found nice quotes that are used in each chapter
01:04 < Banks> np
01:04 <@codeshark> yeah, doc looks cool
01:04 <@mids> cohesion reviewed his work on chapter 1 and 2
01:04 <@mids> it is in CVS now
01:05 <@mids> demo: http://mids.student.utwente.nl/~mids/iip/htmldoc/en/index.html
01:05 <@mids> nop still has to review everything, so it is in no way final
01:05 <@mids> .
01:05 <@mids> pardon the logo, that ASCII art is a placeholder :)
01:05 <@mids> .
01:06 <@mids> Sina: now everybody is looking at the nice docs: demo: http://mids.student.utwente.nl/~mids/iip/htmldoc/en/index.html
01:07 < Neo> nice job banks. stuff looks great.
01:07 < Banks> cheers :)
01:07 <@nop> one comment
01:08 <@nop> looks great
01:08 <@nop> but
01:08 <@nop> oh
01:08 <@nop> never mind
01:08 <@nop> ok
01:08 < Banks> If we can get an advance release on RC2 we can package the latest docs with it
01:08 <@mids> hehe
01:08 <@nop> it's all good
01:08 <@nop> we will, we'll get to rc2 next
01:08 <@mids> any other comments on the docs?
01:08 < Banks> You sure there isn't a but? :)
01:08 < cohesion> anyone here have debian?
01:09  * mids 
01:09 <@mids> there is no /etc/boot.local
01:09 <@mids> everything is script based
01:09 < cohesion> sys V
01:09 < cohesion> you mean?
01:09 <@mids> so you need to create a startup script and put it in /etc/rcS.d/
01:09 < cohesion> ya
01:09 < cohesion> hum
01:09 < cohesion> *shrugs*
01:10 <@nop> oh guys
01:10 <@nop> we need to include the random data for windows snapshot
01:10 <@nop> might throw them off
01:10 <@nop> but we generate a seed there as well
01:10 <@mids> is that GUI based?
01:10 <@nop> yes
01:10 <@nop> mouse and keyboard strokes
01:10 <@nop> both or either
01:11 <@mids> so it is already in cvs?
01:11 <@nop> yes sir
01:11 <@mids> ok
01:11 <@nop> but you have to do a clean install on that
01:11 <@mids> Banks: can you snap that?
01:11 <@nop> cohesion
01:11 <@nop> chapter 4
01:11 <@nop> installation on Unix systems
01:11 <@nop> is that completed the isproxy -C
01:12 < Banks> mids: I'll try
01:12 <@nop> because it starts up at beginning if you are not upgrading
01:12 <@mids> Banks: you require a windows compilation then, maybe ask codeshark 
01:12 <@mids> AndreGoldman: we are at 2) Documentation status
01:12 <@nop> I can compile it for you
01:12 < Banks> nop: Cheers
01:13 <@nop> and send it your ways
01:13 <@mids> AndreGoldman: everybody is looking at the documentation demo: http://mids.student.utwente.nl/~mids/iip/htmldoc/en/
01:13 < AndreGoldman> Thank, I'll jut follo along. 
01:13 <@nop> I'll send it in a bit
01:13 <@mids> more comments on docs?
01:13 <@nop> cohesion
01:13 <@nop> need to finish isproxy configuration for unix
01:13 <@nop> on chapt 4
01:14 <@nop> I'll look over it later for other stuff
01:14 <@nop> but that's a biggy
01:14 < cohesion> hum
01:14 < Zwolly> just let me know where to find original and i will make an dutch translation
01:14 <@nop> ahh yes
01:14 <@nop> translations
01:14 <@mids> Zwolly: will do once reviewed by nop
01:14 <@nop> we need to include those 
01:14 <@nop> in source
01:14 <@nop> this will help people tremendously
01:15 <@mids> any germans here?
01:15 <@nop> Skyrat is
01:15 <@nop> but he's not on right now
01:15 <@mids> or other languages except for english, dutch and french
01:15 <@nop> also
01:15 < Phiberoptika> do you need spanish?
01:15 <@nop> cohesion include the network diagram
01:15 <@mids> UnDeRToW told me that he didn't have time for up to date spanish
01:15 <@nop> I think we have spanish
01:15 <@nop> oh
01:15 <@nop> ok
01:15 <@nop> then yes
01:15 <@nop> spanish is good
01:15 < cohesion> what diagram?
01:15 <@nop> the one I sent a while back
01:16 <@nop> ascii art of the network architecture
01:16 < cohesion> ok
01:16 < cohesion> i'll find it
01:16 <@nop> k
01:16 <@mids> Phiberoptika: cool, we'll find you when needed :)
01:16 <@nop> because what's demonstrated is part of the communication protocol
01:16 <@nop> not the netwrk arch
01:16 <@nop> and we'll label that communication protocol as such
01:16 < Phiberoptika> ok : )
01:16 <@nop> and then include net arch
01:16 <@nop> anyway
01:17 <@nop> I've spoken my mind, the rest of that can be worried about offline
01:17 <@mids> .
01:17 <@nop> oh
01:17 <@nop> and pertaining to rc2 with docs
01:17 <@nop> I will rewrite the encryption when done, but we'll know why in next part
01:18 <@mids> next item?
01:18 <@nop> yes
01:18 <@mids> 3) RC2 compatibility
01:18 <@nop> ok
01:18 <@nop> decided yesterday
01:18 <@nop> we have some more work on rc2
01:18 <@nop> so please 
01:19 <@nop> use 1.1 rc1 until otherwise notified
01:19 <@nop> because they won't work together
01:19 <@mids> wasn't there a function freeze?
01:19 <@nop> and the entire infrastructure has to be upgraded
01:19 <@nop> but it must be when release of rc2 is out
01:19 <@nop> or at least 1 week for pre-testing
01:19 <@nop> reason:
01:19 <@codeshark> nop: we need a parallel rc-2 network
01:19 <@nop> we will have one cs
01:19 <@codeshark> ok
01:19 <@nop> but inform will look the same
01:19 <@nop> and you'll have to restart inform
01:20 <@nop> because we're not changing the communication to inform
01:20 <@nop> so when we parallel
01:20 <@nop> we'll slowly delete out as wel upgrade
01:20 <@codeshark> you mean: flush the relays
01:20 <@nop> we upgrade
01:20 <@nop> yes
01:20 <@nop> except for a couple
01:20 <@nop> which we can discuss later
01:20 <@codeshark> sure
01:20 <@nop> ok
01:20 <@mids> what is changed?
01:20 <@nop> reason:
01:20 <@nop> mandatory security upgrade
01:21 <@nop> IIP 1.1 as is, is very secure under normal circumstances
01:21 <@nop> hackers, etc
01:21 <@nop> but
01:21 <@nop> against a gov't attack, and ultimate paranoia
01:21 <@nop> there can be a few certain types of physical attacks that can be used to obtain the secret server key through coersion
01:21 <@nop> because of this risk
01:21 <@nop> well
01:22 <@nop> let me explain it in more detail
01:22 <@nop> for instance
01:22 <@nop> we're all enjoying ourselves on IIP
01:22 <@nop> right?
01:22 <@nop> right
01:22 <@mids> k: we are now on 3) RC2 compatibility
01:22 <@mids> right
01:22 < Neo> I am.
01:22 <@nop> someone does something stupid and happens to live in a corrupt gov't space
01:22 <@mids> (if the network is up)
01:22 <@nop> this gov't is now wiretapping and monitoring their internet connection
01:22 < k> listening.
01:23 <@nop> and starts putting up spy nodes around this user
01:23 <@nop> then
01:23 <@nop> they log this stuff for the amount of time they feel needed to get this guy
01:23 <@nop> and suddenly they seek me out
01:23 <@nop> and say we're raidnng the server
01:23 <@nop> you have no choice but to give us the key
01:23 <@nop> legally I'm obligated to do so
01:23 <@nop> which is another issue of whether I do or not
01:23 <@nop> say worst situation
01:24 <@nop> they shoot me in the head
01:24 <@nop> and take the key
01:24 <@nop> ok
01:24 <@nop> now with proper analysis
01:24 <@nop> they will be able to decrypt the messages involved
01:24  * Neo thinks we would all miss you.
01:24 < AndreGoldman> it is called 'rubber hose cryptography'
01:24 <@nop> well
01:24 <@nop> still
01:25 < Aroonkoa> Can the key be kept completely in memory?
01:25 <@nop> this is involving IIP as a protocol and rubber hose doesn't work on 2.4 kernels
01:25 <@nop> we have provided a solution
01:25 <@nop> and are currently in the process of implementing it
01:25 < Banks> can you tell us what it is?
01:25 <@nop> this solution is to have a double encrypted protocol for end to end
01:25 <@nop> of course, we're open source
01:25 <@nop> ;)
01:25 <@nop> what happens
01:26 <@nop> user A connects through ---> to end node, connects to networkid, authenticates, and then will be doing a separate random key exchange that will disappear after communication is finished
01:26 <@nop> this key will not be used again
01:26 <@nop> and is after networkid authentication
01:26 <@nop> plus enhanced with the Rolling Key Algorithm we use
01:26 <@nop> and the way we Xor every 8 bytes of data
01:27 <@codeshark> well, you could still do a mitm
01:27 <@nop> no
01:27 <@codeshark> why not?
01:27 <@nop> because
01:27 <@codeshark> if you have the network key
01:27 <@nop> it's done after the networkid
01:27 <@nop> this is a situation against the log and raid server attack
01:27 <@nop> not a live attack
01:27 <@codeshark> ok
01:27 <@mids> will this cause more load on the serverside IIP relay?
01:27 <@nop> most likely not after they are connected
01:27 <@nop> you might note a spike on exchange
01:27 <@nop> but that happens anyway
01:27 <@nop> and a little more time connecting
01:27 <@nop> also
01:28 < Banks> the one-time key will be securely wiped after use?
01:28 <@nop> networkid will be changed for safety reasons
01:28 <@nop> and become 2048 bit
01:28 <@nop> and made optionally in the software to support a 4096 bit networkid key
01:28 <@mids> how well does it scale?
01:28 <@nop> yes Banks it will
01:28 <@mids> we had big trouble on the old server, when everybody connected at once
01:28 < Neo> (log and raid server attack == log all cipher traffic, then raid for the key, then replay the traffic and decrypt the data)
01:28 <@nop> correct
01:28 <@mids> thanks nop 
01:29 <@mids> s/nop/Neo/
01:29 <@nop> the already used ciphers assist quite well for most attacks, the windows are small because of RKA and fake traffic forcing the rolling of keys
01:29 <@nop> but if a user is being monitored
01:29 <@nop> they are at risk until we decentralize completely
01:29 <@nop> so for this reason
01:30 <@nop> we are implementing rc2 as a mandatory security upgrade
01:30 < Banks> cool
01:30 <@nop> and will not be compatible with the previous version
01:30 <@nop> and
01:30 <@nop> one more comment on security
01:30 <@nop> we need to make an ettiquette doc on how to think securely and anonymously
01:30 <@nop> especially in public channels
01:30 <@nop> as well
01:30 <@mids> offtopic :)
01:30 <@nop> as just putting iip links to lots of websites
01:31 <@nop> it's part of the security of IIP
01:31 <@nop> which I believe is rc2
01:31 <@nop> ;)
01:31 < Banks> heh
01:31 <@nop> just linking IIP could lead to bad compromised software
01:31 <@nop> even with md5's
01:31 <@nop> we need to make sure that the servers that mirror it
01:31 <@nop> are secure
01:31 <@nop> etc
01:31 <@nop> anyway
01:32 <@nop> off topic
01:32 <@nop> so we'll discuss that next meeting
01:32 <@nop> anywa
01:32 <@nop> scalability
01:32 <@nop> IIP doesn't scale at all really because of it's centralized (temporary) design
01:32 <@nop> but DH key exchange will not affect the scaling
01:32 <@nop> we are planning for the future
01:32 <@nop> and bigger prime numbers are essential as we go against faster and faster computers out there
01:33 <@mids> well I remember terrible loads when everybody connects at once, right?
01:33 <@nop> not anymore
01:33 <@nop> this was fixed recently
01:33 <@nop> on the back end
01:33 <@nop> I get a spike of 32% now with that issue
01:33 <@nop> not 99%
01:33 <@mids> nice
01:33 <@mids> why put this mandatory thing in RC2 (which was feature frozen imho) and not in 1.2 ?
01:34 <@nop> because it will be waiting too long
01:34 <@nop> no offense to the US gov't
01:34 <@nop> but they have been issuing laws faster than we code
01:34 <@nop> particularly to wiretapping
01:34 <@nop> deniability is a key issue here
01:34 < Banks> indeed
01:34 <@mids> k
01:34 <@nop> especially for the server
01:34 <@mids> good point then
01:35 <@mids> do we need version numbering in the node.ref? (like freenet has)
01:35 <@nop> hence the need to fix some issues and advance in our need for privacy and security
01:35 <@nop> it's an ongoing battle
01:35 <@nop> but it's worth it
01:35 <@nop> well
01:35 <@nop> versioning might be an optional feature
01:35 <@nop> sounds like it will turn out important soon
01:36 <@nop> so it's in consideration
01:36 <@nop> will let you know next week
01:36 <@nop> ok
01:36 <@nop> I'm done
01:36 <@mids> k
01:36 <@nop> .
01:36 <@nop> any questions
01:36 <@mids> .
01:36 < Neo> Yeah.
01:37 < Neo> The fake traffic option.
01:37 < Neo> Wouldn't it be a good idea to have this turned on by default?
01:37 <@nop> it is
01:37 < Neo> good.
01:37 < Neo> thanks.
01:37 <@nop> it's been on since encryption came out to IIP
01:37 <@mids> fake traffic, what is the length again?
01:37 <@nop> it varies
01:38 <@nop> it's max is 50 bytes
01:38 <@mids> between fixed values isnt it?
01:38 <@nop> about the size of simulated chat messages
01:38 <@mids> cant you let it vary based on normal chat?
01:38 <@nop> it is as close as we can get at this time
01:38 <@nop> AI comes later
01:38 <@nop> ;)
01:38 <@mids> heh
01:39 < Banks> what do you mean mids?
01:39 <@nop> we plan to do that with iip 2
01:39 <@nop> that will have more available techniques
01:39 <@mids> Banks: well, maybe 50 maximum is too short
01:39 <@mids> Banks: topic are much longer for example
01:39 < Banks> I see. Is it random text?
01:39 <@mids> Banks: and that might give away something
01:39 <@nop> yes
01:39 <@nop> I believe the values can be altered fairly easy
01:39 <@nop> ;)
01:40 < Banks> :)
01:40 <@mids> k
01:40 <@nop> any more questions
01:40 <@mids> feature request for 1.2:
01:40 <@nop> oh
01:40 <@nop> feature requests need to be posted on sourceforge
01:40 <@mids> keep record of average and SD of the lenght of lines
01:40 <@mids> yes, I know
01:41 <@nop> SD?
01:41 <@mids> standard diviation
01:41 <@nop> why?
01:41 <@mids> to be able to fake messages within the used scale
01:41 < Banks> mids: you mean per user or for all users?
01:42 <@mids> Banks: all users is safest
01:42 <@mids> hm, but harder
01:42 <@nop> well
01:42 <@mids> hm
01:42 <@nop> a nice goal
01:42 <@nop> would be this
01:42 <@nop> iip node takes data traffic
01:42 <@nop> analyzes it
01:42 <@nop> and scrambles it
01:42 <@nop> and uses it for it's seed of random spurting data
01:43 <@nop> that would give a bit of form of ai
01:43 <@mids> k
01:43 < Banks> might be better to get the random data from somewhere else. I mean, that's the data we're trying to keep secret :)
01:43 <@nop> what I mean
01:43 <@nop> not direct data
01:43 <@nop> but size of data info
01:44 <@nop> and
01:44 <@nop> spurt ratio of normal data
01:44 <@nop> so that it mimics
01:44 <@nop> actual data
01:44 < Banks> I see
01:44 <@nop> is randomized using yarrow
01:44 < Banks> Do you guys get notified of bugs added at sourceforge?
01:44 <@nop> I check daily
01:45 <@mids> and subscribers are emailed
01:45 < Banks> ok, just wanted to point out that node/relay settings bug if you hadn't seen it
01:45 <@nop> which one
01:45 < Banks> cool
01:45 <@mids> the one that you didnt see :)
01:45 < Banks> [ 563246 ] node/relay type settings cancellation
01:46 <@nop> ahh
01:46 <@nop> yes
01:47 <@mids> Banks: thanks for pointing out
01:47 <@mids> who does the windows code?
01:47 <@nop> that's not really a bug
01:47 < Banks> yeah, but it's not really a feature either :)
01:47 <@nop> right
01:47 <@nop> it warns you about your settings
01:48 <@nop> but
01:48 <@nop> we'll look into it
01:48 <@nop> thnx
01:48 < k> what's the time?
01:48 < Banks> np
01:48 <@mids> Tue Jun  4 23:48:37 UTC 2002
01:48 <@mids> more item 2 questions?
01:48 <@nop> next on agenda
01:49 < k> what's that in central america?
01:49 <@mids> 4) IPv6 Support for IIP 1.2
01:49 <@mids> http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock
01:49 < k> thnx
01:50 <@mids> IPv6 is something that is going to be used more wide spread
01:50 <@mids> making IIP IPv6 compatible seems usefull
01:51 <@mids> does anybody have experience with making daemons IPv6 compatible?
01:51 <@nop> well
01:51 <@nop> I think it's fairly simple to make it ipv6 compatible
01:51 <@nop> it's really size and input, if your machine is compatible
01:51 <@nop> then it will just do it correctly
01:52 <@codeshark> node.ref parser?
01:53 <@mids> how does it know if it should use the IPv6 or IPv4 address when doing a DNS query?
01:54 <@codeshark> dns returns it
01:54 <@codeshark> either an A record
01:54 <@codeshark> or AAA
01:54 <@mids> dns returs both
01:54 <@mids> (if both exist)
01:54 <@codeshark> hmm, if it has both
01:54 <@mids> s/AAA/AAAA/
01:54 <@UserX> ipv6 nodes would probably be indicated by adding a "transport" field to noderef with a value "tcp6" or similar
01:54 <@codeshark> right :)
01:55 < Aroonkoa>  Nodes could be both ipv4 and ipv6, correct?
01:55 <@UserX> .
01:55 <@UserX> yes
01:56 <@mids> would be nice, that way you can make them gateways
01:56 <@codeshark> if nodes can be on ipv6, i need to connect to the ipv6 network with the nodechecker
01:56 <@codeshark> .
01:56 <@nop> right
01:57 <@nop> remember this is iip 1.2
01:57 <@nop> so hopefully we'll be prepared for then
01:57 <@nop> .
01:57 <@mids> k
01:58 < k> me?
01:58 < k> j/k
01:58 <@mids> more IPv6?
01:58 <@nop> mids
01:58 <@nop> it won't be too hard
01:58 <@nop> I think that's it for ipv6
01:59 <@mids> UserX's idea is great, that should solve all problems
01:59 <@mids> .
01:59 <@nop> yes
01:59 <@nop> .
01:59 <@nop> he always has great ideas
01:59 <@nop> .
01:59 <@mids> A) Questions
01:59 <@mids> -------------
01:59 <@mids> Ask a question
01:59 <@nop> How does everyone like IIP so far
01:59 <@nop> ?
01:59 <@nop> ;)
02:00 < Banks> It's elite
02:00 < Zwolly> great and impressed
02:00 <@mids> I like it pure
02:00 <@nop> hehe
02:00 < Neo> Schweeet.
02:00 < Aroonkoa> Love it.
02:00 <@nop> awesome
02:00 < Zwolly> just looking fot this my whole internet irc life
02:00 < Zwolly> for
02:00 < Neo> We love it for what it is, and even more so for what it plans to be.
02:01 <@nop> neato
02:01 < Phiberoptika> bravo!: ))))
02:01 < Banks> It's not just a pipe dream. It's here, now. With promise for the future.
02:01  * Banks reaches for tissues.
02:01 <@nop> umm
02:01 <@nop> that was the idea
02:02  * Banks offers the box around.
02:02 <@nop> haha
02:02 <@nop> oh
02:02 <@nop> banks
02:02 <@nop> great job on iip logo design
02:02 <@nop> one comment
02:02 <@mids> what logo?
02:02 < Banks> shoot
02:02 <@nop> use it for docs if we can
02:02 <@nop> t-shirts
02:02 <@nop> and bumper stickers
02:02 <@nop> but website probably will be more light
02:03 <@nop> it's very cynical ;)
02:03 <@nop> and as a group
02:03 <@nop> we like it
02:03 <@mids> ah, banks did the logo, forgot
02:03 < Zwolly> t-shirts...  there goes your anonimous life
02:03 < Neo> bumper stickers... lol
02:03 <@nop> just saying
02:03 <@mids> did everybody see it? I will put it on my site
02:03 < Banks> :)
02:03 <@nop> defintely on the docs though
02:03 <@nop> THat is the epitome of the docs
02:03 <@nop> and the software
02:04 <@mids> http://mids.student.utwente.nl/~mids/iip/meeting3/IIPlogo_bigger.png
02:04 <@mids> somebody who isnt here at the moment had a comment on the logo
02:05 <@mids> (s)he didn't quite like how the P worked out
02:05 < Banks> We can change IIP to stand for Invisible Internet Project if you like, which represents your long-term goals as I understand it.
02:05 <@mids> (but liked the whole concept)
02:05 < Banks> if we can think of a way to improve the P, we should.
02:06 <@mids> maybe a normal P?
02:06 <@nop> maybe make both
02:06 <@nop> irc and internet
02:06 <@nop> internet is a ways off
02:06 < k> just don't p on the floor, k?
02:06 <@nop> we have a joker in here
02:06 <@nop> hehe
02:06 <@nop> ;)
02:06 < Banks> :)
02:06 <@mids> well, there is an idea
02:07 <@mids> if you put the P a bit higher, it looks maybe better
02:07 <@mids> though I like the concept!
02:07 < Banks> mids: you can make those changes and send them around for comment if you want, or I can do it.
02:07 <@mids> I am not a gfx guy
02:08 < Banks> neither am I really :)
02:08 <@mids> :)
02:08 < Banks> I'll do a normal P and move it up and send it around
02:08 < k> what's the time in costa rica??
02:11 <@mids> okay, I have a little idea
02:11 <@mids> everybody may promote his channel here now, with a oneliner
02:11 <@mids> include channelname + description
02:12 <@mids> #anonymous - general network channel, meet celibrities & crackheads
02:12 < Zwolly> channel Annemiek just for the fun and in dutch (or english)
02:12  * keimennA is afwezig [Slapen/sleeping] [1h22m52s]
02:13 < k> glad I got to know that..
02:13 < Banks> #scientology is a classic example of the kind of channels which IIP is ideally suited to
02:13 < Banks> (it's not mine though :) )
02:13 < k> lol
02:14 < Neo>  #distributedcity - Sovereign Individuals
02:14 <@mids> #test - for all your testing
02:15 <@nop> #vegetarian for vegetarian (joke)
02:15 < Banks> #hacktivismo isn't up today
02:15 < Banks> Heh
02:16 <@mids> okay, any questions? (IIP related)
02:18 < Banks> Any way to improve fserve speed in the short-term? We could get a bigger user-base then.
02:18 <@nop> umm
02:18 <@nop> not without having flooding problems
02:18 <@codeshark> filesharing in iip is not a very good idea
02:19 <@codeshark> it's very inefficient
02:19 <@nop> wait till decentralized
02:19 <@codeshark> because of base64 encoding and additional irc headers
02:19 <@codeshark> ...
02:19 <@nop> then we'll make sure it's possible
02:19 < Banks> I think it's a priority for a lot of people though. I was just wondering if there was any way to improve it somewhat before decentralization. Ok.
02:20 <@nop> freenet gets it's act together
02:20 <@nop> and you can write an irc plugin
02:20 <@nop> :)
02:20 <@codeshark> yeah, integration with freenet or somthing like it would be great
02:20 <@mids> help freenet testing by running a watchme node
02:20 <@codeshark> watchme node?
02:20 <@mids> if they get that thing working again, freenet will be very usefull
02:21 <@mids> http://freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/twiki/view/Main/SpyWare
02:21 <@codeshark> statistics node?
02:21 < Banks> true
02:21 <@mids> it is a 'spyware' node, intended for debugging
02:24 < k> woo
02:25 <@mids> yes k? do you have a question?
02:25 <@mids> (no sorry, dont know the costa rica timezone)
02:26 < k> sorry - just celebrating out loud.
02:27 <@mids> question: how does the 'new' time suit you?
02:27 < k> huh?
02:28 <@codeshark> it's a bit better, but we need to make the meetings shorter
02:28 <@codeshark> .
02:28 < Banks> I won't be able to make it to the next meeting. I have unavoidable business all day.
02:28 <@nop> ok
02:28 <@nop> it's all good
02:28 <@mids> codeshark: any idea how to make it shorter?
02:29 <@codeshark> make it more efficient
02:29 <@codeshark> someone has to lead each topic
02:30 <@codeshark> .
02:30 <@mids> k
02:30 <@mids> I am going to sleep
02:30 <@mids> thanks all
02:30 <@codeshark> me too
02:31 <@mids> nop: can you moderate the channel again when the discussion is over?
02:31 <@nop> sure
02:31 <@mids> logger will be kept running for a while
02:31 <@codeshark> nop: anything left for discussion>
02:31 <@codeshark> ?
02:32 <@nop> not really
02:32 <@nop> no
02:32 <@nop> everyone go home
02:32 <@nop> haha
02:32 < Zwolly> thanx dad
02:32 <@nop> your welcome son
02:32 < Zwolly> hehe
02:33 -!- mode/#iip-dev [+m] by nop
02:33 <@nop> everybody out
02:33 <@nop> I need my time alone
02:33 <@nop> leave me be
02:33  * codeshark kicks out everyone
02:34 -!- Phiberoptika was kicked from #iip-dev by nop [nop]
02:34 -!- Neo was kicked from #iip-dev by nop [nop]
02:34 -!- keimennA was kicked from #iip-dev by nop [nop]
02:34 -!- mode/#iip-dev [+i] by codeshark
02:34 -!- k was kicked from #iip-dev by nop [nop]
02:34 -!- jakob[oFF] was kicked from #iip-dev by nop [nop]
02:34 -!- AndreGoldman was kicked from #iip-dev by codeshark [codeshark]
02:34 -!- Banks was kicked from #iip-dev by codeshark [codeshark]
02:34 -!- ion was kicked from #iip-dev by nop [nop]
02:35 -!- ellison was kicked from #iip-dev by nop [nop]
02:35 -!- Aroonkoa was kicked from #iip-dev by codeshark [codeshark]
02:35 -!- cohesion was kicked from #iip-dev by nop [nop]
02:35 <@codeshark> hehe
02:35 <+logger> abusive
02:35 <+logger> logging ended
--- Log closed Wed Jun 05 02:35:32 2002