S 'VIII?. NATIONAL IMGLITA. objection to bring forward evidence neeessery to defend and justify their condoet, and instanced the trials ender the special commission at York, where witnesses were brought forward to swear against their accomplices, and not the least personal injury or insult was offered to them. So at Derby, thirty or forty witnesses were examined, and not it single in. inconvenience bad arisen to any of them from that eiremo. stance. It was therefore folly to talk of the danger atten dant on examining witnesses. It had been said, why s . kgi it that what Oliver had said in the Park, on the first day of the Sessions, had been so lung kept secret ? Why, be would sitg gest a reason ; until within the last three or four weeks, the Suspension Act was in foree,and those ss•hq displeased Oliver and his frieuds, were connnitted for indefidlte terms ; could it then be expected that individuals would subject themselves to Oliver's vengeance and ruin. 31r. Scholes was in this very situation ; he was ruined because he disregarded Oliver, and did not wait till the Suspension Act was repealed.: lie pre. sumed to threaten Oliver, and in 48 hours afierhe was line self in confinement, and ruin followed to himself and family ; and such would have been the fate of his Hon. Friend's in formant if he had been equally bold and and imps udent. 31r.Ceersitsin defended the conduct of Ministers. He agreed with the Hon. Gent. that if the case for a Bill of Indemnity was made out, it must be owing , not to the nee, but to the abuse of that pow er which Parliainentbad entrusted in the hands of the Government. The ,Itight lion. Gent. ie. ferred to the cases of Ward and Ogdru ; the first an . • in —a Luddite; the other, who it wasetated, for the put pose of opposition, was ill-treated and nranacled, although silvered over with grey hairs, and venerable tions his age; but how turned the fact oat ?—Why the venerable gentleman, it ape peared, from his own confession, was never, so happy as when in prison ; forithougls it was endeavoured to excite the bowels of compassion of the House in his favour, when cool' nutted he was and had beenaftlieted w ith rupture ; and how stobd the ease ? Why this unfortunate old gentleman gets cured of his rupture, without the aid of the Huptore Society. —Again, in respect to Oliver, and the testimony which G 1•11- 11eineu opposite promised to produce, if the House would grant enquiry ; that lie, Oliver, wished to overthrow she•Go• vernment by physical force—this waa to be proved by a re spectable anonymous geetk-man ; and again, with respect to the story of the inciting to treason, on the day of opeuing the Parliament; if these worthy• Gentlemen really knew all this, why did they not denounce this mau Oliver ? was it be cause they favoured his object, and had not the courage to join him ; or are they now anxious to hunt laim down, seeing that there is no lougee any fear of treason ? Mr. LA.msrort said,. he felt it hie duty, as an independent Member, to state a fact which he had received from a most respectable individual ; and if that would not do, he would stake his own character, as a man of honour, to the truth of his statement; and if he were denied that character he had no business to address that. House any more. It had been said, he boasted of tieing able to produce thistlentleinan; be (would repeal, " give lam the opportunity, and he would do so." He could only say, he was fully convinced of the truth of his former statement. CIIOKER said, that this person of respectability was responsible tor .the conduct ut Oliver in not giving infor_ rnation with respect to the alleged conduct of Oliver in the Park, on the day the Regent went to open the Session of Par: !lament. Sir J; Ns: VPORT reprobated the employment of .hired spies and informers. The situation of the country rose from an overbearing GmtternOtent, and. a servile Parliament. this system was pursued there would be an end of .the liberties of the country. Mr. BAustrrr ttrasted that there was still character and interest enough left itt the House to reject this infamous urea.. sure. The House then divided —for the going into the Committee 238—Against it 60-3ldjarity.l7l. 'file House then vent into a Committee pre fcrinc.—Ad joorned at One o'clock. TkIVRSDAY. PL'IITIONS. Petitions against the fTatlierl ; ;;;;ere presented from the Tanners and Lea(h.q . Dealers of the following places :—Hor• sham, Barton on Humber, Hereford, Brosuyard, Norwich, Walsall, Kiiigstomon County of Essex, Ashburton, Skipton, and Seaford, Soutliamptou, Prescot ; Dolgelly, Dur. ham City, Boston, Grantham, Stourbridge, and others. Mr. C. CALVLRT presented a Petition from the Tanners in the Borough of Southwark.. He could state generally, .that the additional Tax had reduced the trade to a state of the greatest distress, and he hoped glut the Chancellor of •the Exchequer would consent to repeal it before he was compel. led to do so. Mr. C. BAacLaypresented a similar Petition from.the Mo rocco Leatber Dresers of the Borough. Mr: Ald. \Poop presented a Petition from Leeds, signed by a large number of inhabitants, praying for Parliamentary . Kaolin, and the impeachment of the Ministers. Sir R. FEttnusns presented a Petition from •Weymouth against the Salt Tax. Lord STANLEY presented a • Petiticm from Royston, praying Iwo :a repeal of the .Corn Act and the dismission of Ministers. Sir R. HERON said he had Petitions to present from Swine head and Kirton, %Inch bore the names of villages, but in population exceeded a great number of tomes. /c( )11'1 H POLE. Mr. CROXER said, that as the progress this Pill for amending the Act: respecting the Beard of Longitude had been delayed, he mistier, to brint in another Bit! for a limited purpose, which it would he desirable to pas: through before titeholidays. It wacao alter the words of the oath prescribed to be taken by the Masters of Greco:and ships, a ho•weie com pelled to swear that they had no view of pi alit but the fishe:•y. He proposed to add " or the Parliamentary Reward for ap• proachin,g the Pole." Ships were now every vlay tilting out for the trade. • Heimoved for ►ease to•bring in a Bill fur this purpose.—Leave was given. In answer to A question of Lord A. Hamilton, Mr. Cnoteee. said, -that he did nut intend to press on hastily the other Bill on the same sunject now before the ►louse. 'lllO fill was read a first and second time, and ordered to be committee to morrow. .iiisevvr to a question from Mr Wan e, Sir Cr. WARREN:DER po.trom d the Navy Estimates till 31tmiiity. To * Repents of the Salt Committee of 1801, were ercLred -to be printed. __ __ __ P:iRTNERSIIII'• trlr..lld. Woon gave notice that after the holi.ia;:s lie Olinda move for leave to bring in a Bill 101 the encouragor lima of Trade and Mauutacturcs. It 11'.0 to au Act - MARCH , I6. which had twev passed in lrelsnd. The object was to enable perAons to vest money in trading concerns, without their being answerable fur any thing beyond the amount of niunt y so invested, sciLthey were nut acting partners. LEATHER TAX. Lord •ALTHORP rose to brieg forward hieprotnieed motion upon this subject. The question, he said, for the House to consider on this occasion was,whether the Leather Tootle had keen dept essed through the operation of the additional tax imposed upon it in Itll2, end whether the produce of the ro elate rembing from that tax-was such as should render it expedietitto continue the tax, to , the prejudice of an impar. taut branch of our staple matinfacture. . That the trade b a d been dept eased w as, he thoeght, naturally. to be anti' red from a variety of circumstances. All the Petitions on the table alleged that dein ession, and ascribed it. to the tax, fur the repeal of which, therefore, the. Petitioners prayed. He stated, that those cards which were still occupied were hot woik, and the trade had declined equal to unc•seventh instead of having increased with the population of the come. try, as it had alaays done before the imposition of the double tax.. In proposing this objectionable tax, be could not imitate the example of his Heu. Friend (Mr. Calcraft) upon the sub. ject of the Salt Tax, by holding wit the promise of any sub te ; fur, is his view, it was in the power of Moisten them. selves teproxislethatwhichwas Richest substitute feu taxation, namely, by latch a reduction of our expenditure and public estaldistimentsdS it was their duty•to wake. The Noble Lord concluded with moving for leave to bring in a Bill f or (lie rt . peal of the additional duty on Leather. The CNAKCSI.LOR of the LatillEiat/ZR. said,. that if the motion of the •Noble Lord were fur the•,aupointsueut of a Committee, and that the House were disposed Ichaceede to it, he should not object to its adoption. But he could not C(141. cur in the present Motion, because it called upon the Mouse to decide in favour of,the. Petitioners, a itliout.any inquiry as to the truth of their uargation. The produce of the Leather Tax the Right Hosiourable.Cient.leman stated to be 204,0001. iu 1777,215,0001. iu 1 1 91,:3 4 44,0001. in 1812, which advance was owing to an increased demand through the ear, and 264,0001. within the lust ytar. From .this statement it was clear that the produce of the Leather Tax had not fallen off. There were at present Petitions before the House praying the t n viii ut uu less than three milliutwaud.a half ef lasts, to smite of uhielt it was deemed just and e - 4etlient to concede and especially to those teethe repuel,of the wi n d ow tax in Ireland. ljuder such circuctststices,•he.trusted the House would not accede to a.mution whicli,pkoposed to de pri e the state of no. less thau.:.:60,0001. per annum—that it would consider if it thus proceeded to redtice.thatcstablished revenue, it would have no alternative .but to..choose by. tween banlcrisptcy and disgrace, °rifle impositian.of the Pea. perty Tax. Mr. Cettwert -deprecated the reference of this .question to s• Committee, as-the result melt be recollected of such a reference upon a• former occasion ; declaring his resulu lion, notwithstanding Flit • threat of the Property Tax, to support the motion, and vote for the repeal of this mischievous tax. Mr. BENSON said he should Tote for the Motion of the Noble Lord. The whole amount of the produce of the additional duties was 1:140001. ; and for such a tritlingssugu, be trusted the Right Han. tue Chancellor of the Exchequer would not continue to ling it, which be canddereil the injury iLinflicted on the manufacture. •.Lord Chrif.ENEAGH recommended the adoption !of a Se. lest Committee, to when the Petitions 011 tha Table shoal d he referred anil.inovedmn Amendment to that elect. Mr. BROUGHAM trusted liis.!.'tde Friend would persevere in pressing liis.,Motiou. Two Committees had already sat, every .information was rocorded, and ne other result woul d follow from the adoption .of the amanduicit, but further delay. Lord Coxvrost spoke in favottrof the.lll9l*. r :and d enied that the.tax was productive. Colonel. Wunn said, whether it was prodnettio.oz upt, would be.best ascertained in a Committed. ,Ve waseue.uf those who thought the Legislature liegau at the wrung end, in shifting the Property fax front themselves and leaving other taxes that. directly pressed upon the lower orders. Comparing the ceverities of both, he would prefer a relief from:the Salt Duties, sod the continuation of the Leather Tax. Geettal GASCOIGNE said he should vote fur the Noble Lord's (Althurp's) motion. Mr. C. Cwt.vratT denied that the additional duties lied been prriluctive. Mr. 3IAR It IiAT stated the distress of L•is t!onstituents la the Borough of Sandwich, who were connected with. fie Leather Manufacture. In thp.parish where these people priucipally resided, the•Yoors' rate was 2,05. in the.r.unti—in the other parish it was only.l2s. After a few words from Comeral Gascnigue, Mr. Lushing ton, and Mri Penson, in explanation, he House divided—kor the Aitkeetiment 84—Against it 94—Majority 10. . Lord Althorp's Motion fur leave to sent in the Bill to re peal the Duties, was then putfand agreed to. . PAROCHIAL VESTRIES AND RATES. Mr. S. Rousts E rose to make his promised motion for leave to bring in two Bills for the Regulation „of Parish VestiieF, &c. vil:lch he prefaced by a few observations illustrative of the purposes he had in view.. The object of his first Bill (among minor regulations) who'd be to give additional influ ence to persons in Parish Vestries, in proportion to their eon. tribution to the Poors' Rates. This,proposition was 1101 lit W to the .I - louse, and tie was not aware that any objection had been made to it ; and as far as he could learn from commu nications with all parts of the country it was a provision that would be very generally acceptable.. The first object of his second Bill would be a proviston to enable. !wishes of consi derable extent to appoint select vestries fur the management of their concerns ; the orders of which sboald not he over ruled by any single Alagistrate;. but only by two or Another object would he to eaalde. parishes to appoint an assistant overseer, with a salary. The next provision was one of considerable importance, although only in furtherance of the existing law; it was to make pros isiun for currying into better effect the statute of Elizabeth, as jar as regarded setting to work the children of parents who ,were unable to ma i n t a i n th e m. This was, at the present moment, a matter of the inmost consequence, for a practice.tnost injurious had become prevalent to a very great extent, built in inamitactur ing and in agricultural districts, which ought all means to be,counteracted-- that of lowering the wagos tit labour, and making good the deticieucytnit of the pours' rates. lie could not retrain laotiimaining. one parish in particular, in which thts practice had been carried further/C.:in in any other that lie had heard of. He had received information that in the parish of Butesdale, is Suffolk, the price of labour bad hcen reduced to 6,1. a thy ! to a labourer, the expeuge.of am ers lutist be protected by Parliament,. and supported by .Go veroinent. Whatever ridicule be might expose himself • to, be would maintain, that uu such spy as Oliver should be em ployed by any Government. 'Posey were-two things, to re ceive information. and to send muss 4001110 m country•to ex cite tumult and insurrection. With'-Tespect to Cooties, he was dressed up and titted• out as a and wife was sent 00191 the way by a clerk at How-street. •As to Oliver . he war expressly sent down as the Loudon Delegate,. and those Derbyshire and Not Wight' sushi re men Wolllllllot have stirred a band if it hail not been fur the assbitance he taught them to erect from the diaatlected in London. He did not say that Government sent this mail into the oonntry to . excite insur rection, but that was the result of his mission, and 110 one who had read the.llerby trials could dualr• it. It was said, that Me men Oliver tempted, wet e disaffected men; now that artnwent placed khe •did abut 1110111 it ottensively) the Secre tary of state and Ins defenders in that Hume in Use situation of Vaughan and his ..ssoriates ; for they uglier', that they did oat excite honest mot hut thievus by profession to execute burglaries. His Majesty's reign had been distinguished lay some glorious triumphs, und the Ministers, who were wont to Limit of thuie triumphs, could now boast of a corapiete tri umph over the liberties of the country. They might amy with • itiv putt:— That F./Aland, which WM WOIH4O conquer others, lt,ei gait: 4 a sharhefulecniquest o'er herself." The SOLIMUR ,LiENER AL said, the Learned •Genalornan had kept out of the view of the House all that a elated to this question, and had argued it abstractedly. The whole ground ut !nekton. and Learned Friend's opposition to this Bill was, • that it sAS an Indemnity for illegal Jets, which he denied. It the House thought the Suspension Act proper they ought to . grant ttr_t Indemnity. His Hon. Friend had said, why, it' blinisters laud not been guilty of abuses, nut whey ask for - a Bill of Indemnity Why lie would reply to hislion. Friend that Ministers bad not done any owe act/v. hick, Wilsey were to go into evidence, they could nut jrtstify, but the. fact was, that it would nut be tit. or safe to make public the Alvislence • on which they had acted. 'Tie Report stated that Ministers bail exercised their power with greatttnoilertition, and 'there tore, in justice the House was humid to pass the •Billaiti In demnity. Now with respect :a the:Magistrates, the Act said that Ministers should do certain things, and that they should Is lye the power of searching the houses of persons accused of treasonable practices for papers ; bul.4:is Learned Friend Alagtstrates had done more, and that under Lord Sid• inouth's circular, they had seat cited persons houses for libels. If any Magistrate bad so acted, and bad seesuhied the houses •• o I' persona who were only accused of libel, then this Bill would lig protect him. The Hon. Gent. then proceeded at length to defend Ministers from the charge of having sent Oliver into the country to incite rebellion, and into a statement of the facts sossften detailed to prove that :these disturbances eqsted long. before Oliver: was heard of; and further,. lie contended, that it had been fully proved that a treasonable rompiracy did exist. The facts taken together were such, he contended, as justified the Government in the first instance ri ebbing for the Suspension Act ; and their conduct in the exercise of the powers granted to them was such as entitled tient now to come tor this Bill of Indemnity. Sir F. BURDETT observed, the Learned Gent. who spoke List had. contended, that this Bill of Indemnity was necessary, because it Wall not fitting that the Magistrates should be • ualiged to discover their sources of information: that was, in • his opinion, an argument which could not be tolerated. Was • rt to be urged in a British House of Commons, that persons -.were to be imprisoned and punished, ruined, and then dim_ i•oargediwitliont trial, %ma secret accusation sad without vier tieing informed who their accusers were; This system ass similar to thatatlopred iii the most despotic governments • on the Coutinent. In the place Dc St. Mare, at Venice, we were told there wan a lion's .inolitli placed, fur the purpose et receiving anonymous accusations against individuals, the at cuser bring never known to the person accused; precisely tho•sanie system was now adopted its this country, where secret accusistionsswere drupe, ant into the lien's mouth, but into the office of the-Secretary of State, and remaiued equally hidden and concealed from the party accused. This was a I system, lie contended, which ought not and could not be borne by the people.olthis country. Mr. LAW was of opinion, that Ministets had exercised the powers which had been invested iu thetnwith moderation and • discretiou., and that they were entitled to the Bill of Indent- nity, Sir W. BURROUGHS said, it was the duty of Magistrates to , do three things, to receive infoi - mations on oath, to bind over the informers to prosecute, and to return the informations to the proper,•qoarter. None of these things had been dune ; - .he accosted bad never known the accuser t. end where the person injured had conic to the Home for redress, their Pe tition• liad.been rejected, and the House were now about to . pass a Bid of Indemnity, which would completely shut the door of justice.against them. Sir. F. Floor was in favour of the Bill. Mr. LAMBE last year voted in support of the measure of -• Suspension on legislativvg: - ounds. He thought the Indem nity. Bill was a measure arising out of the former proceeding and one which the Magistracy had a right to•expect. He was ready to acknowledge, with Ins Hon. Friend, that every measure of this description was an impairing of the Constitu tion ; but it ought at the saint :hue to be considered who was the cause of the measure being adopted. It bad• bee n sa id, that Oliver was the person who incited the mob to acts of riot in St. James's Park, on the first day of last Sessions. It might be so, perhaps ; he should not attempt to deny it, and could only regret that the circumstances bad been• kept secret so long; since, had it been discos/cited before, it would Lave probably have led , to his apprehension, and probably to the eisettivory of the riugleatlers on that occasion. At all events it would then have been made apparent that Oliver was a Gu s unser Spy, .and wield have revolted much which has since occurred. He had-originally considered the Suspension Act nerassary ; and he now considered the Bill of•lctleinnity • elitist'', so.—(Loud cheering.) Mr BROUGHAM Wlllll.ot surprised at the &pi :1 3 , 1 ,11 0g cheers with , which his Hon. Friend's speech had amen received by too ether side of the llouse, since it went the 101 l length of approving all the measures of Government; and he had now to regret that Itimselt and those who were lot the habit of !se-,ingini. lion. Friend's summit in their measures, had on thisoccasioit tailed et iilitaining his itasistance. and the aright • add authority of his Brea; halm% His Hon. Friend had con . taint,..a t•tr nine or genet Indemnity to the iiteritu . F l out situ lir OW Brougham.). did nut 4btect to t hi s ; w h at l ie ii hineteit to wa-, giving tudir..trintinitteledem talty to all, and clastiing with the ineritot Nltigi•triate the spy Oliv•.r. But he would contend that, tor mei itch l o os . al l . •4;.serater. "'smelt tudrmnity WAS 11C014• A r ) ; as, % w it • been add by his lion. Friend, he could see no ditticulty or _ Jkik..