$ # • puty . Tt?t NATTONAT, AMSTER by the Act of thes3d ; for it would he absurd, AS it seems to me, to leave these provisions on the statute book, when a maw may by law take what he eau get kr the loan of his money. In repealing the usury laws it appears to me that it would be eery desirable to add two provisions • the on that no man should lend money at interest alit t 7hselo'da`g his name, W. liit Icuder , on the face of the scent ity. Thi• Would prevent all underhand transactions. I inysi If lit ver hole* An instance . , although now and then Wan Ito! reason Ott Monday afternoon, I . for piti%acy may occur, in %hick a person Wily leitddig his theatrical celebrity, were . ettiti tk money at interest was desirous to conceal his name. The silent in the yawn of 't. artin's otherprovision which 1 would take the liberty to zureet is, Dr. Athe and two nth wed Y ,• • • a chinse makitig it penal (of course Ida not mean iii i t to lend money at interest, or by way of annuity, to an inlaid, and placing it oast of the power of the infant when lie comes of age to ratify such a loan ; and allow hint to recover it by action, if he actually do pay it, and giving hint the benefit of a discovery in equity against the lender. There is a clause partly to that effect, in the Annuity Act, which might, with the necessary alteration, be adopted in this case. Fur some few Years past it has been usual to insert powers a f sane wholly at the discretion of the mortgage' in mortgages of real property. This power enables the mortgagee at once to secure to himself the repayment of Isis principal ; and it ap pears to me, that when that operation is fall , / understood. the effect will lie to lower the rate of interest oil real securities, I may observe, that within the last few sears many persons ' have borrowed money by way of amenity, who, in former times, dial not einsage in such transactions. Scarcely any man entered into a building speculation, with a small capital, ' who did not raise mousey by annuities, aeon the %readily of his buildings, and very frequently before they were covered in. I have known gross frauds practised in this respect, such as a finished house !diem' to at party. and a description of au initialising' one afterwards substituted. Houses have been shown as a security, in the finishing of which great numbers of workineu were entrlityetl, all of whom were taken off the inoment the transactiou was completed, anal the annuitant* were then left without any security for the annuity. By these and other frauds, I apprehend that more money has been lost than gained by loans ander the shape of life annui ties al small amounts ; and I have known s al very dis tressing Casts in which unprotected females have lost the whole means of their subsistence by such transactions ; and it does appear to me, that if the usury laws had not existed no such mischiefs as those which I have pointed out, would have ensued, because loans are coaducted with great caution and regularity. In many instances professed a llama y stealers have collected small autos from all descriptions of persons, until they formed a considerable aggregate; this they here laid out in their own names in the purchase of one annuity, and there has been a deed to declare the trust of the annuity, ' for the persons whose names were advanced, according to the proportion in which they had advanced them ; they thee pro. cure themselves to be appointed receivers of the rents, in order to pay the atonally, for which they have a commission, mill the annuitants are necessarily compelled to appoint them their receivers also, for which they charge another commission. The temptation on the part of a solicitor to lend mosey upon annuities is very strong, because without any cheek upon his charges he demands whatever suite he pleases, and be takes race that it is instantly paid ; for in no instance is the borrower allowed to leave the room until he has paid the solicitor's charge. It frequently happens, that the solicitor was originally concerned ler the man who boos rows she money, although lie has taken the pekoe to find out man who wants to lend it, and he does not feel that interest in obtaining a proper security for the annuity, which it is always the duty of the solicitor to do in a regular transaction. In short, annuities in their rise were a mere evasion of the law of the land ; is their progress they overturned the laws, and in their consummation they ruined most of the parties who engaged in them. The Act of the 17th of the King, which was intended to restrain such transactions, led to more Ihigation, perhaps, within the same space of time than any other Act on the Statute Book. The moment the borrower felt the annuity press heavily eu hint, he attempted, and often with mimeos, to net aside thee grant ; this red to great oppres sion on both sides ; the lender considered himself as out of the pale of the law, and exacted a rate of interest which lie considered would cover at once his risk and his disgrace.— 'lite borrower considered himself as oppressed, and applied part of the very money which he borrowed in defeating the 'reality which he haul gist it for it ; all these circumstances led to the oppressive mud irregular way in which such transactions are conducted. The Act of the 63d of the King has put a total stopto all litigation in regard to greats of annuities : that Act lots now been five years in operatim, and not a single annuity granted within that period has been the subject oils law suit ; but sousing short of a repeal of the usury laws can put a stop to the abuses which attend grants of annuities; they strongly encourage a spirit of gambling; for as-the re-pay ment of the money lent cannot be inforced, and the annuity is granted upon a contingency, the borrower too frequently neglects to pLovide for re-payment of the loan, but trusts to chance for the determination of the annuity. 1)o you think it would he best for all descriptions of persons, and for the state, that there shonld be no boundary or re straint whatever upon interest, but that it should be left to the convenience, wants and agreements of the borrowers and leaders?—Under the existing-circumstances of the country, I am clearly of opinion, that it would he for the benefit of all parties that there should be no restraint upon locus at interest. By the existing circumstances of the country, I mean the degree of commercial enterprise that pervades it, and the immense capital that it possesses; it the market rate of in. terest rise above the legal rate, there are already numerous devices hy which the usury laws are evaded, and the bor rower is forced to pay not only the market rate, but a com pensation for the risk and disgrace which attend a breach of the laws. The high rate of interest which can new be ob• tained in France, and which is paid in Eaglastal as regularly as our own funds, is a strong argument in favour of the re• ' peal of the laws, of the market rate of interest were at this moment above the level of the law, instead of bring as it ac• tually is below it. In a comtnercial cumin . % like ours, with a large capital, usnry laws must, I apprehend, always be inja. lions to the trite interests of the comm y. Used' laws merely fallow the state of the market, they are at best nn necessary, if they disregard the state of die market, they will in evitably themselves be disregarded. Fronithe filictinition of the value of money, it is impossible to pass a law wrack s'te't at all times accord with the state of the market. The greater the penally Mutt is imposed on the breach of the law, the less is the chance of the law being enforced. Our usury laws have been hourly broken, and an instance rarely oecurs in which the heavy penalties have been recovered; there appears to me Do foundation whatever for the notion that it is for the hem fit of the g 'remittent that the legal rate of interest shout' be low ; a wise government, I conceive, would encourage a ready circulation of money amongst landed proprietors, and , not drive them to shifts to evade usury laws. Whether our wury law* be repealed or not, the landed interest will always command the use of the capital which Bind - necessities rail for; upon loans to Dover nruent, I ;apprehend, die/reef rate of ,reillil s to has no influence; hhe rate of interest of he Stock 8 iitte regulates them, and that is not infitimilled by the legal WI. • . • • . '!“'" ""` ""'" ' """ wide scene of miser} ell la, I ,ippr• !mod, fteitta4 rate of titsitod folio to e‘cove um • rate of interest of he Sts.ek leaving tosir little all a i id that is not inftaellged by the : WA% web a pal ret,isitwe ~............. • child she sup ~ low ; t\. r rernajos 'Miss Propei,of t a .4 l l s l ;i n t g il i e lli d " . " . l ..- filt e:r d:7: 1 :1 1 1 liii A frA n . ompton fo, inlet- extent .: :•afir losses. ' iron's chus 1. The carriage of bon / wed the werrang coaches. a tre•Getts lust. ,• • , .., , .2 .. ' .4 . [ iiii . 4 - • , e' . ..... w . . .....,.. • 7 _ ~,i . : . t 0:_.2 4 -.),:.. z . : 4 ,.... ,.4... - . ... " • •;•' ..:• 40 41.,,,, • , bo r, . ,_,;., . . 3 .- .1 , 2.-- --f • ~:3 REPORT FROM THE COMMITTAL; UN THE USURY LAWS. This Report having been printed, we have selected I.':e. following, as being the opinion of a gentlemau who appears to have well understood the subject, and from whom the Committee derived considerable information. Dwane) Buirretssonw Sonnets, Esq. crllei in and examined. You have been many years conversant with real property ? --I have, for 141/WS1(1 , of fifteen years. Very e.xtensively AU ?—Certainly. Have you lout an opportunity of observing the effect of the usury la•.vs'ution lauded property ?—I have. Ilave they been beneficial or otherwise?—They have been decidedly inimical to the Interest of the landed proprietor. Be kind enough to inform the Committee your sentiments upon the subject ?—Every landed proprietor will have money when he wants it, and there are always two rates of interest ; one the market rate, and the other the legal rate. It' the market tate rises above the legal rate, the landed proprietor must neeessarily resort to some shift to evade the 'Nary laws ; this is &me muter the colour of granting life annuities. lii all such dealings the transaction is in troth a loan ; the party advancing the motley always fixes upon a rate per cent. at which he is willing to lend his money, to which he adds the costs of the insurance, The higher the terms are the mote the transaction assmnes the shape of a Wail, because the very exorbibency of the terms readers it an act of duty on the part of the bort ower towards himself' to re-purchase the annuity as soon as he possibly can : for in all these cases, sYilliont any exception, a power to re-purchase is inserted in the grant of the annuity ; and in speaking of such transac tions I have invariably observed that the parties treat them as loans, and not as a purchase out au'l out aim annuity. Are these annuities generally granted fur the life of the' granioi ; and if not, for one life, or for more lives?—When the borrower has only a life Merest the annuity is necessarily granted for his life only, bet when the grantor has a larger in tel est, fat example, a long !era) of years or a tee simple, the activity is Oren granted for three lives at the least, and the lily of the survivor ur them ; 41111 as this diminishes the risk of the security, a !malice sum is generally ridded as the charge of insurance. I have known amenities granted for three lives at ten per ceut.lllloll fee simple estates uninctim bared and of great minimal value in a regitter county. I have also known annuities granted for four lives, and more would have bees added but for the danger of equity setting aside the transaction on account of the inadequacy of the comoder &lion. Latterly many annuities were granted far a term of years certain, not depending upon lives. If there wet e no laws of restriction on the rate of interest * could or could not better terms have been obtained ?—I Oa decidedly of opinion that better terms could have been tab' caned, for there-is 74 Slil:11111 Whirl, attrelies to men who lend money spun an amities that drives all respectable men out of tae mom ket. Some leading men did latterly embark iti such tt ansactimis, but I nevertia instances knew a Mall Of replitir lion iii my own profession lend money in such a manner, although we have the best means of uscerito •ng the sateat securities, 41151 opal:lining the best terms. I I„loatis two A trr solicitors ate inv a riably euncerned, one for th usver and one for the lender; and although the borrower alsvas a pave the expense of the sect • 'es, yet a regular professional hill is invariably made out; whereas iii the case of an atuntuty, although it is in strictness a loan, one solicitor only is env' ployed, and he never makes out a regular bill, but charges what is termed a lumping sum for all his expense and trou ble in the transaction. Besides this a judgment is neatly en every ease entered up against the borrower, with liberty to issue out execution if the annuity. is a few days in arrear.— 'lbis is never done upon a regular luau. Are you aware of any inconvenience that would result front the repeal of these laws?—l have' latterly turned that user frequently in my mind, and I entertain it confident opi nion, that the repeal of the laws would not in any manner prejudice the landed interest; for as money can now he obtained sipon teal security at four and a half per cent. al though the law authorizes, as it now stands, five per cent. to lie taken, it dearly follows that it would still be obtained at that rate, that is, at four and a half per cent. if' the law alloe. ed cent. per cent. to he taken. But where sums are owing upon personal or slight securities, I should not be stir prised if the parties were to claim a somewhat larger inter. est for thus ',uttering the stun to remain on such security, as soon as the laws are repealed. I should not have thought it wise to repeal the laws during a moment of agitation ; but the repeal affirm now would scarcely be felt. If the Committee understand you rightly, they conceive you tomcat', that if the laws were repealed, the rate of in terest would be adjusted to the securities?—Precisely so ; money, like every other commodity, will find its level in the market. At this moment I think clearly, that the repeal of the usury laws would not raise the rate of interest ou loans upon real securities. Does any thing else occur to yon?—Without being able to vouch for the accuracy of the account, I sent this morning to the register's office in which the grants of life annuities are eneolleal, in order to ascertain the number of annuities ets• rolled in the last four months, and the number in the corres ponding four mouths of last year. It struck use, that as money was now plentiful and the rate of interest consequently lower bathe market, the number wou ld I se found to have de- AVG 17 THE CASE OF MR. ARBUTHNOT?: I. Mr. Arinahnott is 'teemed by the Americans of havin, incited the Indians to acts of savage warfare against them. The ittmoit, we have reason to believe, that could he proved against Mr.Arbuthitott wits. that lie conenrred with his Indian neighbours in the propriety of protecting their property by tree of aims when lawlessly invaded. The safety of his owls commercial store was involved in the issue, and he could not reasonably do less. If one or mote American marandera have been *hot and scalped in their attempts to carry off the cattle of their Indian neighbours, what pretext can the corn. (rotten of the cattle stealers have for complaining of the style in which an act of robbery has been very properly punished? No rational motive can be assigned %tit). Mr. Arbutlinott should have incited the Indians to wanton hostilities against the Americans. As it private trailer, his interest was to cal. iiviste peace with all aron•id I ;as a British subject ba could have no object in provokiaz hostilities which he most have been certain the British Goverament would never sanction or abet. 2. Mr. Arbuthnott is farther accessed of having furnished the Indians with the" munitions of war." The'' munitions of war" with which Mr.Arbntlinott furnished the Indians, were ao other than the ordinary articles of traffic between Europeans and Indians. The Indians gain their principal mc Ails of subsistenre from hunting ; it is en occu pation which they cannot carry on with adequate success without an ample sup •ly of powder and shot ; and Mr. Ar. butlinott did no snore than aid them with pat t of that supply, in return for the skins and furs which they brought to him. It was a mete iransactien of trade, of which the Americana themselves in all their bite' course with the [lichens are set ting a constant esainple, anti without which no traie with this Indians can possibly be ~arried on. 3. Mi. Arbuthnott was accused of being a spy upon the Americans—or rather, according to a qualified verioa of the °Weiser. which has been recently promulgated, with basin.. gis en intelligence to the Indians of the movements of the American forces. The intelli.. s enee which Nfr. Arhallmott gave t h e I n di ans was simply this :--he told them of the Oficial communication he had received from the renegado egret Ratably, that the Americans had resolved upon their utter extermination, and were upon the way to put this barbarous edict iii!o execution. What was there in this which was against any one of the laws of nations? If it wax indeed an act of espiostvre deserving of death, Illainbly,who sent the tiding s from the iCisserican camp, wag the guilty men, and not Ntr.Arbutknott, who wily told what was utficially communicated to him without moving a step from his own established settlement. But who can for a moment maintain that it is a crime to warn an innocent people of a design to massacre, and cut them otf from the free of the earth ? Forthese alleged offences, thus so easily and satisfactorily rethted, has Mr. Arbinlinott been seized, tried, condemned, and execntetl. The wanton sacritive of the life of a British subject is at any time aggression enough to rouse the British Nation to make the cause of satisfaction —we will not say of vengeance—their own. But luokingto the grounds on which the justification of this extraordinary act have been placed, they are such as seem to call, iii a very particular .0 timer, on the British Government, to interpose in the present matter. It the Americans are to be allowed to hold that the furnish ing of tsinsiiitous of war to the Indians is a crime which en titles them to pin the individual engaged in it to death, what is to become of the whole of our traders along the Canadian frontiers, who are in the constant practice, because their whole trade .prods Tlllllll it, of doing as the unfortunate Mr. Arbothnott has done and suffered for it. lithe Americans are to be permitted to exercise the right of putting any Indian or Indians, %shout they may contrive to provoke to a bloody (moral, into a neutral territory, and to arrest, try, anal execute the subjects of that neutral territory, for aiding or befriending the proscribed fugitives, what se curity have our settlers in the remote parts of Canada, that they may not at some tnture period be visited its the same barbarous manner that Mr. Arbuthnot! has been at his set tlement iu the Floridas? It is well known, that by treaties made with the Indian nations. stud aceordieg to old and established relations, the British Government is in the practice of making annual pre sents to the Indians of blankets, clothing, arms, and ammuni tion, which are publicly delivered by the agents of the go. vernment, at the ports of Drum d's Islasid, on Lake Huron, Ambrustburg, on Lake Erie, and Forts George and York, on Lake Ontario. If the principle now assumed by the Anteri. calls is admitted, will it nut be quite as applicable to the munitions of war furnished by Government, Its to those fur. &shed by private individuals And may not public agents of tile British Government be hung up, as Mr. Arbuthnutt has been, for only doing:what their duty requires of them We submit these cousidei ations as north) , of very serious at tention. To admit the right este:lnc(' by the Americans in respect ()lone British subject, is to admit the seine right in respect to the whole subjects of the British empire. If British fubject cannot be protected by his Government is the lawful pursuit of an honest occupation in one place. lie can have no reason to claim or expect it in another. In Florida, in Canada—ever where—one general system of bate and abject abandonment of the lives and properties of it. subjects, must be the consequence. Mr. ArMithnott was a native of Montrose, in Scotland. and was some years resident in London as a merchant. He ap. pears to he well known in the city. Ahont two o'clock on Monday morning a fire broke ont at the Duke of Vuik public•honer in Ratcliffe Highway. The landlord and his family had gooe to Margate, leaving the house in the care of a young matt. The times burst forth sa the cellar, and from the quantity of spirits deposited there, quickly becameso pow emit as to mock all efforts to vitic . giiiAli them. In half an hour from the commencement the piddle-house was totall, ilustroyed, and the flames commu nicating to the premises on each side, two more houses were burnt to the ground. The calamity did not terminate hero. At the bark' of the• Duke of Yolk is a narrow street, con slating of !Rinses bout chiefly of wood, and inhabited by people. The 11 es having cunuuuuicatcd to thui.e houses, a Aide •of mis.• tflisued. Their inmates, half naked, the tiny of the destructive element, prey to the darnel. In one group with disiracti (((( in her looks, for a ; and in another, children I lly ..ro ; nor did rime Orr( toy scene cud hrcb unlc skewed the inhabitants toe 'feu or twelve of the small wooden It has not been ascertained whc,hef - ~:~ .: r `. creased in the four months in this year; and the bers ututiicla have been given to me as the result of a very hasty yaininatiort, were 457 in the first four snood's of the year g 147, and , oin the course of the last four mouths, being a degrease 117 ; t a -i cannot take upon myself to say that this is tb 4 stilt. With the leave of the Committee, 1 w . ill just a . few hings that occur to me ; I would first draw t , tiou e Committee to the Act of the 53d of the Ki g, lch med bx me, and which was, to a con- siderable degree, a ru usury laws, for as it fa— cilitated and rendered more t a of life annui- ties, which are merely All evasion of t u a it slid to that extent conateract their effect. If the tic& . , s are repealed, it would be necessary to repeal bouh that Act and the Act of the 17th of the King, w hich latter was repealed . _ . . .. p '~ r 1 i i I