MEP ~! MIMI \ THE NATIONAL REGISTER. Catholics to sit in Parliament,' or from taking off all the disabilities un• der which they laboured ? Onl y a very small proportionof them could ever belong to the Legislature; and was it to be supposed, that these few could overturn the Constitution, Church, and State ? Or was -it likely that the Sovert4gn would ever select his Lord Chancellor Counsellor a from among the Catholics ? 'That he would select for his Chief man who was plotting to overturn the Constitution ? Then, if no harm could arise from granting this boon, was there no good likely to arise ? He believed there would be a great deal. It was said the lower order of the Catholics did not want this privilege. 1 hat was so l aru, 'because it - was known, that the lower orders were alway by the Weser; and. these high orch.-rs, in obtaining what they asked, woull have their stake in the country made stronger, and a beneficial effect would result throughout the whole mass of the peop:e. It was impossi ble to suppose that the great body would not like the Gos - ernrnent much better it these claims were granted. Could men he expected to fight the battles of their country with cheerfulness, who were denied the op portunity of rising to command ? Tice Catholics were men, and it was but natural they should feel dissatisfied on account of the yrivileges which were withheld from them* The Noble Lord comcludsd by ob serving, that it was understood the Prince was formerly favourable to the treasure of ernaucipation ; and if Ministers had advised him to a contrary conduct, they had done wrong. The Marquis WELLEsLxy said, that this was a question of great im portance as to the effect it would have on the population of Ireland— the law of Ireland—and its preservation ; and above all, on that which was the bulwark of othe liberty of the Empire, the Protestant Estab lishment.— (Hear, hear !)—A Noble Lord (Somers) had adduced as a reason for going into a Committee, a Report in a N:vespaper of a trial which had taken place in [;eland, where a complaint had been made of one of the Law Officers for having some concern in the forming a Jury; yet he understood the question, when argued, was overturned by the ittidge. The Noble Marquis defended the conduct of the Duke of Rich mond anst the Irish Administration, and declared his conviction that none of them would have attempted to stand between the King and his subj cts. The Government, however, had been advised that the assem • bly of the Delegates was contrary to law ; and that opinion had been declared correct by the Court of Kingi's Bench.--(Hour, hear!)—He was not now saying whether that law was good or bad; but, in his opi nion, if he had to contend it hereafter, he should convince them it was a wholesome law. When thii law was brought ie, in 1793, he, although in opposition to the then Government, voted with them on that ques tion. A Judge, high in his pr fession, had declared tleit the niet rings which this law was intended to suppress, woul , l prove the destruction of the empire, if not prevented ; but in no hoe,:nce had the Cdurts of Law been found anxious to crush the diouts of thq ilish in their with to apply to Parliament in a legal way—(Hettr,'sear!)--hat be riaw no way so likely to prejudice that cause at for those wha had the rnaaage merit of it to commence by open resi'stanee to a known law, and by steps Most injurious to the tranquilllte of Ireland. Whatever feelings we mai have towards the - admission of Catholics into Parliament, did their l .ord. ships mean to say, that an assembly, consisting of Prelates, Nobility, and Electors from different counties, was a fit assembly to he sitting in Ireland after the Union... 4 Hear, hear! ).—This was not a question merely of religious indulgence, but whether ever, - State was no: just itied in retraining what Was injurious to the State. I hold all restraint to be evil—(Hear, heir !)—but the danger on the other side may be greater ; and if so, hold to your restraints—( Harr, hear !)—A Noble .Erri had s iid, this was a question of State. Let them abate the questh 41 of right on one aide, and the thry of zeal on the other, and consider it coo I.y. He had con sidered, that the best mode of disarraying the disaffect , it in that. country, would be to remove the hood that holds them together—(Year, boor!) —The restriction embodies them all---if the restrictions were removed, the different chases; the army, the navy, the law &c. would separate. and be looking to their own individual interest. How far they should he re moved, or what security strould be requi7ed fi ceo the Catholics, he was no . t preparesi•to say.—( Hear, k'ar-! )—Wo:tid it be said the Catholics e; )yed no privihon, no power or weight in the State? No one could Say - they did not ; they were admitted into the army, it:to the navy, and into the law ; and he was of opinion, that though there was no P piste Pretenr!er remaining, yet - that so large a body were not to be released from all restrictions, and admitted into the body of the State, witi e out considering what security shoe t be required for the preservation of the tstablished religion. He would advise rho ns, till the time arrived when they might be admitted to consider what security they had to offer, that they would conduct tirtimstdves as p red and pc-seeable subjects, and, by dutiful submission to legal authority, pave the way for their admis..ion to those privileges they were so anxious to participrte.—(Thor, hear ! ) The Marquis of LaNsoo w E spoke in Lritour of the motion. The Earl of Perittrs'roit - r also supported the motion, and contended, (hat white England; with little mere than double the pooulation of Ire land; was able td raise 'early from .50 to 60 Millions, the revenues of Irelatul could scarcely he collected, heconstquenee of the ur.iettled state of that country, owing to the deprivation of their natural rights. Earl Moira, Lord Erskine, and Earl -Darnley supported the motion; end the Earls of Westmorland and Buekinghimshire, and Lord .Mul- grave opposed it. • Karl Gat,- entered into a very dace examination of the conduct ftf the Irish Government and the iriolt Catholics, and into an historical. ♦evie Of the various circumstances of the case, both b e fore and sillce C. r. 1:n14. , n. lie Oleo entered !tit , " the cirrlinistAnces which pro,lueed ~ ;~--- FEB. 2. the Convention Act. T'he GOvernmenfwas idinned at the rioteiteent Meeting of Ulster, held at Dungannon, which determined to hold a convention at Athlone • to prevent which, principally, the Bill was passed. The Act was founded on a precedent of the very bad times of Charles 11. passed in a fever of loyalty, when too little care was taken of the Constitution, the neglect of which had- brought Charles I. to the scaffold, and created a revolution. Could that be of much authority ? If the arguments used by the Irish Government were allowed, what would become of the liberty of the press ? The logic of a despot might be extended to apply to the -discussions of Parliament itself. In his .Noble Friend's Bill (Lord Grenville), which he opposed, for suppressing sedi. tious meetings, the words " for the purpose or pretence" were carefully inserted, but there were no such words in the Convention Act. Lord Fingal, Lord French, Lord Netterville, and the rest, were not persons who could fairly be supposed to meditate any thing against the Govern ment : their fortunes, their connexions, - and general interests In the country, forbad such an idea. We had now to contend with the whole power of France. We were also on the eve of a war with America. A war with America, coupled with the present state of things in Ire land, formed a fearful combination of such magnitude, as to make it im possible to make any statement too strong for the purpose of drawing to it the most serious and close attention of that House, and what had heretofore happened with regard to America, ought now to be a beacon to warn the House of the danger of trilling so again. 1 The Earl of LIVERPOOL thought, a meeting which was to consist of I Catholic Noblemen, Catholic Prelates, and other descriptions of per sons to the amount of more than 300 men, was such as might have alarmed all thinking men. What could be the purpose tor winch such an assembly could be convened ? Had not the Catholics for many years 1 past been allowed to present Petitions ? How had those Petitions been treated ? Refused, it was true; but as long as the House was not hid ' Indated, their Petions were received with all respect. If the House I meant to proceed with this question, he hoped they would never think I of going into a Committee, till they knew what it was that was ex ected , from them. Let the advocates for the Catholics lay on the table of that House a Bill which should unequivocally shew what they meant. Catholics and Protestants would then know the real truth, and all persons might form a judgment what they were about. Lord GRENVIL LE remarked, that the moment of irritation was t'se i best for co: ciliation ; and there was offered to us an opportunity which might mot recur of evincing our magnanimity, by chewing ourselves I desirous of redeeming the errors of our past conduct. The course I which bad been pursued towards Ireland was exactly the course which had formerly been pursued with respect to America. He believed that I i the fact was, that the Catholics, as they had met hostility where they Llooked for friendship and common justice, they had drawn off from this country in disgust, instead of feeling that affection for it which they would have manilested it% their treatment had been different. lie con s cet • Ived, that we 1 ::al boa that great opportunity, when the measu r e might have been adopted previous to any irritation of the Catholics, or alienation of their affections from the people of this country. One more i! opportunity now presented itself in the awful visitation of Providenced , the chief obstacle to the measure, and he hope d that this measure I would not be delayed, until the affections of the Catholics of Ireland 4 were completely alienated from this country. i The House then divi , .!ed— I • Content 4'2, Proxies 57-79 ; Non-content 86, Proxies 7G—IG2— I , MAjority 83. Il Adjourned at HA LE-E 4 sr Six u'CLoc in the Morning. E' liOt;sL OF COMMONS. MONDAY, JAN.. 27. • Mr. BANK ES gave notke of his intention to stew his motion respect• ing the eussesslon of Si:at-cures anti Reversions.—( Hear I Hear I j ROY AI, HOUSEHOLD BILL. Mr. TIERNEY said, Ids object in rising was to propose that the Com.. mittee on the Bill before the House should be postponed to a more dis tant day. He m. 0 . ,. deemed it necessary to make some observationcup on the items of the Civil List. He meant here to pronounce no censure o:1 the Righ' Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Percevat) who had assented cheer. tuly to every proposition on his part respecting the production of pa. pers, What hr vi..nted however to know,and to be accuratCy inform ed was, if any means existed, what those means were, of cui tailing the present Civil List Expenditure ? To convince the House that this was a rea•onab!e desire, he would call their attention to the year 1804, in the session of which year Parliament had voted the sum of 65,0001. for the Lot d Steward's department. The expenditure was nevertheless 84,0C:01. being an'exeess of more than 20 per cent. He was completely instilled in calling for further information, when he observed, that instead of .10,01:01. the sum voted by Parliament for this department, there had beta expended a sum of mow. He observed in the Bill some provi sions concerning the private prclpert of the Crown. By this Bill , three Commissioners were appointed at the salary of 10001. each, to .protect that private property of the Crown. He put it to the House what must the amount of that property be which could afford 20001. per annum for the sole purpose of auditing !—(Hear! Hear!) Nothing could he more r k enuite from his wishes than to wound the feelings of any individuals but he could nut help feeling some jealousy on the part of Parliament , that an nnth was to lie administered to these Comniissluntrs, to bin/ Fl t I - 7 7 MI