TED. 19. the Report of the Finance Committee In 17b6, three years after the conclusion of the American war, they would find that Clay suitlee declaring a certain part of the war taxes still neceeesty, and that they probably %%until be su till the year 1790, seven sears after the cuuclusion of the war. The sole of seamen foe the present year would be 33,000; the. peace establishment would probably be 23,000; the expense would be two millions. Its 1790, our seamen amounted to 20,000. The additional expenses of the navy, almost the whole of which required most expensive repairs, iti consequence of the lung course of service in which it had been engaged, would raise that it em o f su pply to 7,000,0001. For the army no vote would at present lie required. The number of infantry and cavalry tOr Grem Britaiu, including Jersey and Guernsey, would be 9:000, and fur Ireland the same. (Hear, hear, from the espposition.) The time would arrive when this proposition might be taken in detail. The number of troops t'or foreign garrisons would be 3,000 ; the army in France 50,000 ; Gib raltar, Malta, and the garrisons in the Mediterranean, 11,000 ; the garrisons in British America, 10,000 ; the West India Is lands, 13,000, of which 4,000 were in Jamaica; the Cape of Good Hope and Africa, 3,000; Ceylon, 3,000. With respect to these last, the Right Hon. Gent. said, they were formed partly of colonial and partly of British troops. The House would see bow desirable it was that a force to serve in these Islands, and unhealthy climates, should be fornted, as much as possible, to cuneist of natives, even though we were under the necessity of keeping up a larger establishment, as we should therefore save a considerable number of valuable British lives. The garrison of St. Helena would consist of 1,200 ; these, together with :f,OOlO which would be kept afloat, would snake up a force of 99,000 men, independent of those in France. Many of these regiments, however, would be skeleton regiments; and, owing to this cir cumstance dad casualties, they could not be taken, though no minally 99,000, at more, in reality, than S 3 or 90,000 at most. Besides these, there would be a force of 20,000 for the East India Company ; but for these, or for those troops in France, •no call would be made on this country. The French contribu tion was equal to the pay of these troops, and hitherto that con tribution lied been regularly paid ; 700,0001. had already been paid. He understood that legally these contributions belonged to the Crown as droits. His Royal Highness the Prince Re gent, however, had bcornetl•to take as such what had been ac (Eldred with such bravery by his army. I - Hear, hear.) Out of the contributions. 30 millions of livres were to be given to the British and Prussian army ; the rest, amounting to four millions, Would be applied to the payment of the .troops. The total amount of the charge for the army would be 9.300,0001. ex clusive of extraurtlinaries. The Commissariat would be ti eO,OOOl. ; the Barrack Department 258,0001.; and the Extra ordinaries of the Army would be two millions; making a total of 11,233,0001. for the entire of the army. The Miscellaneous would be 2,500,0001.; this would be better discnssed when the different items came before the House. There was another item still to mention, and that was, payment of a sum to the ' I.- :.-.. India Company, fur money advanced by them for the pub lic servii.., in the Last Indies. According to the best opinion which could at present be formed, their demand would amount to two millions, and they had already had 600,0001., and it was ptoposed now to advance them one million more. This would mike the total of supply required 24,338,0001.: besides this, Vivre was a separate charge for Great Britain, making the otal of Great Britain and Ireland 29,393,0001. The Ways. and earn to meet this suss were—The surplus still unappropriated of 'three millions of last year's grant; the surplus of the Coii lc selidated Fund, say 2,300,0001. ; the ordinary anneal taxes, Ikea millions ' - the war taxes, which he would now take ut only six milliois; the sive . isgr cent. Jittionerty-tax, which he would' also take at six millions; the Lotter', 200,11001. - , Ex chequer 11111 s, six millions ; and lastly, six millions from the Bank, by way of Loan : these sums would altogether make a total of 1.6,700,0001. to meet that part of the expenditure belonging to Great Britain, amounting to 26 millions. Here the Right Hou. lent. entered into a detail of the neguciation with the Batik, t i kith, he observed, bad been brought to a conclusion Un terms ghly advantageous to the public, the whole sum having been orrowed at au interest of nu mote than four per cent. lie hoped, notwithstanding the Loan of Exchequer Bills now con templated, and this advance on the part of the Batik, when the Ecounts should he made up to the end of the year, there would found to be no increase in the unfunded debt of the coon y. He would now detain the House no longer ; but merely again add, that the establishment, the outline of which he had jest submitted, ought by no wane to be taken as the intended 'Peace Establishment, but as one founded on the wants and lisersessities of the present year. He was happy in being able, 'at the conclusion of such a dire conflict, to make the statement he ' ' now done—(hear, hear s—and was convinced, in eon to the many gloomy prophecies of Gentlemen on the of the House of the ruinous state of the country, wishing, and that our expenses were 3. Gent. concluded by inuving for _ - applied to the payment of Esehe. sat down amidst loud cheering from all quer- THE - NA' tanned at that per ceatage, with the exception of houses which might lie insured, and of course furnished a sort of delicate. In the count' y, farming stock, held out no such temptation, and therefore the borrower was obliged to obtain his loan in the shape of annuity at S per cent, which, with an additional 2 per cent. on life-iusurance, made the dutireur 10 per cent. Even so high as La per cent. was sometimes charged. The Usury LAY/ being in full force, he could not conceive how the Right Hon. Gentleman could think that 13 millions would, in the event of leaving the Sinking Fund untouched, go from the individual to the lauilliolder, at the rate of 5 percent. though he was ready to admit that, to a certain degree, it would tend to decrease the rate of interest. He therefore begged the Right Hon. Gentleman would not, on any such speculation, abandon the thought of abolishing the Usury Acts. The Hon. Gentle man observed, that lie had also thrown out sonic suggestions respecting the restriction on the exportation of wool. The present was a fair opportunity of giving relief, when the foreign markets were open. He trusted the Right Hon. Gentleman would not be so childish as not to direct his attention to this subject. It was also necessary to give relief to the landed in terest by 71 more equal levying of the Poor Rates. At present they fell exclusively on the landlord, contrary to the meaning of the statutes. The inanutlictories were filled with spinning jennies, the owners of which paid to the poor rates in the pro portion of 3 or 4001. a year, while the laud-owner paid at the rate of 15 or 20,0001. thus making the former person the ma nufacturer of paupers. The poor rates, therefore, did not go to the support of the poor, butlo the diminution of labour. Another subject which was worthy of attention was that of' Tithes. He did not know whether any thing had been done; but he trusted, that Ministers would devise some meats of re• medying the es il. The next point was the Military Establish ment, which had given him much cause of regret at bearing that called a Peace Establishment, which, at any other time, would have been called a grievous war one. The Right Ho nourable Gentleman, atter shewing the different dispositions of the force to be kept up, which he mode amount to 119,000, had stated that 40 or 50,000 more would be in the pay of this ' country. Mr. Varierrraer here explained, that besides the establish ' went of 99,000, there were to be ambled from 40 to 50,000 which were in a state of reduction. Air. lisouenam proceeded, and observed, that the expense of the establishment, nearly 30 millions, was a most intolerable burthen on the country. What prospect, he wished to ask, was there of any greater diminution next year, with the ex ception of the last item, which might reduce it to 23 millions. .1 great deal bad been said about the peace—that it was the best peace which the country bad known, and yet this best peace left the country loaded with a large nsilitury establish ment at home and in the colonies, and a force of 30,000 to be kept up in France, according to Treaty, if we chose to ratify it. The Right Hon. Gentleman bad talked of the East India Company paying their troops ; it was a mockery to say they would pay, when year after year they were earning to this House for loans. He condemned the large amount of the force in the different islands, particularly that in the lonian Islands. Why were seven or eight thousand men to be sta tioned in these islands, which were rich in nothing but patron age and currants? lthy was it necessary to keep so many islands ? What did the country gain by them, especially the Dutch Colonies? With respect to the military establishment, why, lie would ask, was it necessary to keep so large a standing tinny iu Ireland as 25,000 men iu time of peace? Would it hot .hiave been better to calm the minds of the people in Ireland by Sallelhorstig l l W..eodiaion of the Catholics ; and by sense sr duagernent of the grievousburthan If tithes? this would be a more practical saving. There was So abuses of disaffection now, nor of foreign assistance. east, however, retrenchment was necessary, and that was best accomplished by diminishing some of the useless offices. For instance, why, he would ask, in times of peace, were so many Lords and Secretaries to the Ad miralty? If seven Lords were necessary in war, surely now the cunntry could dispense with the service of four, when there were only 201) ships afloat. In war, according -to comparison, seventy instead of seven would not have been enough to direct the Naval Trident. lu looking at the peace establishment of 1792, he found the estimate was five millions. France was now reduced below her strength at that epoch. All Europe leagued against her; our own power greater than at any turner period —nu enemy to contend with; then what was to be feared? A peace concluded, to be preferred beyond any other—even that of Utrecht; and the result of it all is—a load on the country of from 25 to 30,000 auuually. If the prices of every article had been doubled since 1792, that would not call for more than 10 millions. The Hon. Gentleman, after some farther obser vations on the necessity of affording relief to the landed in terest, as the relief now proposed, in his opinion, was ineffica cious, suggested the propriety of taking off the tam upon leather, which would give material relief. He.observed, that nothing had been said about the War Malt Tat; he hoped this would meet the attention of Government. Itut the greatest burthen of all was the Property Tax, wbl4ll he had no doubt the country would rise up against, and come to the House and de sire the Right Hon. Gentleman to ask for a small loan, and lute- where property wee already diminished, toe must be daily more and more diminished. Sir R. He RON said, that when the intelligence of that night was circulated in the country the people must feel universal gloom. They would then see that the system of economy recommended in the Regent's Speech was to be found no where but in that document. The retrenchment should begin in the Regents expenditure. They had been told of the imposing situation this country had assumed in Europe ; but he wished that we had taken advantage of our insular situation, and kept out of all foreign wars. What consolation would it be for the starving. tailor and shoemaker, to be told that they had put the country in an imposing state ; that the army was covered with glory I that they were governed by a Prince of such good taste, that he could not endure the same furniture for two years together s and who expended more in the erection of a thatched cottage, than other Sovereigns did in building a palace. Mr. GRENFELL entered his protest against the massure of accepting from the Bank the loan of the money of the country at 4 per rent. Mr. F. Lewis wished any man to contrast our present situa tion with the establishment required by the greatest Minister this country produced at the close of the American war, when all the money required by him fur the Army, the Navy, the Ordnance, and the Civil List Establishments, amounted to two millions and a half. If the Income-tax was continued, it must become a tax upon iOl,l, and not on profit. For he believed that it could be proved at the Bar of the House, if necessary, that 23 millions were removed from the circulation of the coun try during the last two years. It was not for bin to propose a remedy ; bat he would say that the House ought to think of same remedy for this state of things; Wit whatever that might be, he hoped it would not be the Property•tax. Mr. Ban MG allowed that sonic relief was necessary for the landed interest; but what that should he would require great consideration. He considered the baits of the tenantry tax, and the tax on farm horses being reduced, as intended by the Chancellor of the Exchequer to induce the country gentlemen to acquiesce in the Income-tax being continued, notwith standing the hatred of the nation against that tax. Mr. nRAND said, that when he heard from the Treasury Bench that we were now entered into a state of profound peace, he could not help asking, in the name of the country, why such a tremendous peace establishment was to be kept up e The Chancellor of the Exchequer ought to recollect that the faith of Parliament was pledged to the abolition of every one of the War-taxes ' • instead of that, he bad only offered to relieve the people of five per cent, on the Property-tax. lu his opinion, the people ought to protest against the continuance of this system of taxation, which they had borne so long and so gloriously. Mr. YORKE contended, that the establishment proposed by the Chancellor of the Exchequer was only intended for the current year, and not as a permanent establishment. He hoped we shonld have no more war ; but the best way to prevent it was to be prepared for it. Lord Nuoeser was of opinion, that the military establish ment of the country could not be too early discussed, consider ing that it was to he kept up to a most unconstitutional extent. Mr..loces contended, that the lauded proprietor or his te nant could sapport the Property-tax no longer. Mr. Alderman ATKINS said, that the difficulties of the coun try did not fall merely on the agricultural interest of the emus. try, but pressed equiills on all classes in the nation. He hoped • that the Chancellor of the Exchequer would give up the Pro. perty-tax. Lord CASTLEREAGH said, it was impossible. in a short time, to reduce such a force as our's, so spread over the world, to a ' regular Peace Establishment. He compared the estims'e of the last and present year, to !thew, that every possible reduc tion had taken place in our naval and military expenditure, even to the amount of eight or nine millions. He deprecated :so false a step as that. proposed of suddenly letting down the force of this country, while 'all the other nations of Europe were still in an armed state. The Resolutions were then agreed to, and the Report ordered to be received to-morrow. Atter some conversation between Lord Comm/Asti, Mr. PONSON2V, and Sir G. U . ARKEROKR the discussion of the Navy Estimates was postponed a taw d ays.—Adjourned at ele ven o'clock. Tuesnav, Fee. 13. Petitions were presented from certain inhabitanti of Tiver : ton, in Devonshire, praying a repeal of the Insolvent Debtor? Act. Gen. Thornton gave tunic; that he would on Tnesday neat move for leave to brief in a Bill to render the Property in oar Funds, belonging to foreigners residing out of the kingdom, liable to a full proportiun of Taxation. Mr. Brand presented a Petition from the Farmers and Corn growers of Hertfordshire, praying relief from the heav y load of t a xation with which they were barthened .— Order ed to He on the table. PROPERTY TAX. The Sheriffs of London presented a Petition from the Lord Mayor, Aldermen, and Common Council, of the City of Lois ' Piroperty-tax • and Bed it modification whatever; the continuance of which he had token of the said, in he had now done—(near, fermi—and was convinced, in eon- rations on tne necessity or anuraing relies w ine INAMMa SU.' r WM', yv3•Jaas•as, .... •,...r....•,........ .... ...... ~ ...-- -- -- -- IF --. - -- ' :tradiction to the many gloomy prophecies of Gentlemen on the te rest, as the relief now proposed, in his opinion, was ineffiesie liable to a full proportiun of Taxation. • idler side of the House of the ruinous state of the country, cious, suggested the propriety of taking off the tax upon leather, Mr. Brand presented a Petition from the Farmers and Corn- lt our finances were flourishing, and that our expenses were which would give material relief. He.observed, that nothing growers of Hertfordshire, praying relief from the heavy load of iinishiug. The Right Hon. Gent. concluded by inswing for had Breen said about the War Malt Ta,X ;he hoped this would taxation with which they were barthened.— Order ed to lie ssum of 12,300,0001, to be applied to the payment of Exche• meet the attention of Government. But the greatest burthen on the table. er Bills; and sat down amidst loud cheering from all quer- of all was the Property Tax , whii6ll he had no doubt the : 7 of the House. PROPERTY TAX. country would rise up aga inst , and come to the House end de- The Sheri ff s of London presented a Petition from the Lord Ir. PoNsnanst said, in no view , which he had taken of the sire the Right Hon. Gentleman to ask for a small loan, and Mayor, Aldermen, and Common Council, of the City of Lon- Illation of the country, was there any pretence to justify so charge the interest on the Sinking Fund. With respect to don, praying a repeal of the present Pioperty-tax ; and t h at is ellke an establishment. The Right Hon. Gent. bad talked of loans, he wished to know why Austria had not repaid the loan of should not be continued under any modification wfuseesee; desire of Ministers for economy and retrenchment. He seven millions, borrowed twenty years since. At any rate, it was which was read, and ordered to lie on the table. of none; but if' economy was necessary, surely that bead said, that being a true and faithful ally, she would pay the in- Sir W. Coatis said, he held in iris hand a Petition from the ired peculiar care. He must also enter his protest against terest, if not the principal, which would now amount to between Lord tlayor, and Livery of London, in Common Hall assembled. Proporty•tax : lie would not consent to grant one shilling. four and five millions. The troth was, that England furnished This Petition was couched in temperate language, and was country must not he deceived by their Representatives ; all the money, but seldom get repaid. agreed to by a most respectable body of the Livery. It prayed f they voted for this tax, real retrenchment In the Public Mr. Rosa, in reply to the Hon. gentleman, otherved, that a repeal of the Properttax, to the borthene of which the Pub- : nditere would not be seen; and, therefore, the only way there was no reason for altering thel.Tsnry Laws. In respect lie at large lied only been induced to subsoils with patience by r y denying Ministers the tax they were about to demand to the Poor Rates, various plans had been suggested, without the urgent necessity of the times. That necessity they 100. ~ o years to come. He relied on the integrity of the House, effect, to the benefit of the land owner ;et the same time, he sidered was now gone by ; and any renewal of the tax, howler the spirit of the People, for compelling Ministers to re- admitted that- it bore bard upon. the agricultural labourers. modified, would, in their opinion, now become an intolerable ck• If the House did not, the People of England would The Hon. Gentleman had talked about taking MT the rrstric- lourthen ; they therefore hoped, that no attempt whatever • ilk that the Representatives had deserted their interests.— tions on wool exported, as a means of relieving the grower. would he made to continue it. ear, Sear.) 'flee filet was, that wool is exported from Spain, many parts of The Petition having been read, Sir J. Strew said, the tan- , r. Beocossare complimented the Right Hon. Gentleman Germany i and even France had a great redundancy ; there- gime , of this Petition he considered to be the language of the r. VamlittarO on his able and luminous statement. Another fore he (Mr. IL) was at a loss to know where the wool would he Livery at large. It was temperate and moderate, and it ter- Fortunity would b e a ff or d e d t o follow him through the de- exported to. He haftalno talked about the patronage of the tainly spoke his own sentiments. The Livers at large had lis of this large and com plic a ted subject ; for the present he lonian Islands, when, in fact, there was but a single Commis- three objections to a renewal of this Tax, all of which were. ould only enter his protest against some of the principles of sinner in those Isles , and one at St. Helena. In respect to the well founded. They objected to it, first, because the . neceseity Ministers constantly talked of economy, but did not pro- Property 'fax, that was increased by the Gentlemen opposite which cupid alone render the tax bearable was past : secondly, ••• ed to carry it into client. The first object of attention was when they got into power ; and that tax had saved a capital of loceaese there was a pledge given last ) e it., that at the end of die distressed state of the country ; and here he would remind 300 millions, and nearly 12 millions of permanent taxes. He it. or of the a ar, the tax should expire i and, thirdly, because ' tof the statement in the speech from the Throne, of the clonhted whether the public would petition against the mite in tie present state of the country it was, he believed, out of finishing state of the country, which it now turned out was the extent stated. the power of the people to pay it. Under then: circomostantes sot quite so flourishing. Their first object should have been to Mr. WgtagnA coneeieerl the, proposed relief to the acricul- and for all these reasons, he would now subunit, that it world ndieve those distresses. But how were those distresses to he tural interest would rot be so great es the Hight Hon. Gentle- he far preferable to raise the six millioos, which it was estimated ielieved? The Hon. Gentleman adverted to what he had thrown man expected. The only telisf that farmer -, would obtain, in this tax would proolowe, by way, of Loan, the interest to b e. out on a former evening, in respect to the Usury Acts, as giving a farm of 300 scree, taking le house', would lie about 121 an- paid ont of the Sinking Fund. This plan would relieve the a facility of borrowing money in case of exigency, if the distress nually. The best rens t woe's% he to tax the real property. It conntry from a load of taxation for the present year, and would was the consequence only of a passing storm. This subject he was in vain• to internist to lay on Nixes, if, as he euntended, the not on all affect the Sinking Fund. again recommended to Ministers for their consideration, for resources of the country had tailed. After pa i hug the expenses 'the Petition was then ordered to lie on the table. • relieving the wants of the landholders, as the restrictions im- of cultivation of the land, there eloolately remained no hiiig Mr. Lez.ltinGTON loroneht up the Report of the Committee of posed by law on borrowers were very heavy. All the Life In- for rent. With repo il to making the property-tax a peace -tax, Supply On its being read, aurance Companies were in the practice of taking more than be hoped the Chaneinlor of the Exchequer would find the 00- Mr. Elsner.% V was atl‘iuu% to express his opinion on the pro- . per cent. in no one case was a regular mortgage to be otii Mona of the collate), in opposition, too powerful for Win; fur penal for continuing the tax on Property or Income, because • . • • ek- . . _ ..._ ._.— • ___., ..--........monane.:4,4l.susionantattint- - PrAalookilleL .- • . _ . - - "