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But why is it timeless? You said that it applies four thousand years ago or tomorrow. Why is that, and how do you know?
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r/christianity
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r/Christianity
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2009-04-22
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>If God says that slavery is ok, then it is ok. That's just the way it is. I don't find myself having to justify God's actions to make myself feel comfortable with them. As Romans states, the clay has no right to accuse the potter of immorality.
"Good people will do good things, and bad people will do bad things. But for good people to do bad things -- that takes religion."
-- Steven Weinberg
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2009-04-22
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^^^ exactly why faith is a disease worthy of eradication.
Seriously, this logic is terrible. Doubting God does not mean wondering "True is False". That is ridiculous. Doubting God means wondering "God is not True; God is False". That is a HUUUUUGE difference.
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r/Christianity
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2009-04-22
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There are no sides.
Either one hypothesis is correct, or neither is correct. They cannot both be correct.
Either there are deities, or there are not deities. While another tack on the mode of forming such a question has a slim chance of yielding a novel strain of though, it is most likely to amount to nothing more than a literary exercise for a developing mind.
People use different language and modes of argument depending upon the mutual knowledge of their audience. A debate about deism or ontology is going to be far more nuanced, open-ended and polite than a discussion about [flying horses](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buraq) & [anal plastering](http://www.towleroad.com/2009/04/report-iraqi-militia-killing-gay-men-with-painful-form-of-anal-torture.html), or the spectacle of cultural sublimation and language erosion caused by missionaries.
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2009-04-22
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Z0FBQUFBQm9jNEtsZVFLQVlJZUI5aHVzcDNQLXl6X2ozWVRHbVhVbEljaUlUNnR0UC0wUDlrN0hMSGlESWJQNC1LVzJSUG1KMzZydTR3Nmt4LUNfeVZFVUpjX0cycFhVMlE9PQ==
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Utopian movements are often religious movements. They are adopted by mass conversions, contain elements of mythopoeisis, and frequently include eschatological tropes.
The phrase, "after the revolution" is not much a stretch from, "after the revelation/apocalypse/etc," and arrives about as soon.
Mass voluntary disassociation from theism is the exception rather than the norm.
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2009-04-22
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Z0FBQUFBQm9jNEtsem4xNFlhX1ZGZDhvY3VBQk1WMjNCODJ6OHBGVFl0dXhiWTRQY2FKMDZEQlFMSnk0enVZT3BHeldtaXRKa3Vwam0xbWJkUXVPQ3lkUkljU3NYT0JwbUE9PQ==
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Any utopian movements above say 75 people that you can highlight?
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2009-04-22
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Z0FBQUFBQm9jNEtsV0Q3aTVkc3hSLTJPUHhveGxZOWNFQ1dMdkJCa0dlbGt3S2ZuVHlsVXE3MVJJRHJOejJKb2k2V1RKUnhNdXNxZjNLMkNGOGZiM3owcVdLQzdMdzhwVXc9PQ==
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I can't disagree with you over how determined most of humanity is to suck at existence.
I lost much, but not all, of my faith in humanity long after I lost my any residual detritus of theistic ideation. However, the little triumphs make up for the greater morass of self-perpetuating inanity.
What I realized later was that fulfilling any arbitrary qualification of being a moral agent was irrelevant to the validity of accepting or refuting theism.
If I, along with other persons who eschew theism, eat babies on days ending in y, it doesn't make any difference regarding whether or not I am correct in my assessment of how the universe operates. *The consequences of an opinion have no bearing on the validity of an opinion.* The inverse is also true.
Yes, I am an altruistic person merely because I *feel* that way. There is no documented pre-nineteenth century philosophy I have not perused, nor any I find to be more than illustrative. When I am infuriated by something, I become less disposed to altruism for little while. *However, because I possess a persistent faculty for pathos, it would seem that I am existing less abstractly when I allow it to be expressed.* The faculty for pathos is a faculty of the mind, and we are lessened without it. Minds drinks in novelty like water, and therefore I benefit from empathy with no external motivation as it occasions opportunity for new insight.
We can't really derive moral decision making from nature. Even adherents of airy concepts like natural right say it is remote. I can look at nature and perceive instances of both altruistic or competitive behavior, often simultaneously. The vast, complex arrangements of eukaryotic life are often far from equitable, but they work, and that apparently is all that matters. Because we have self-awareness, because we can deliberately change our environment, and because we can modify our examined desires at will, we as intellects are implicitly divorced from any sort of naturalistic ethics.
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2009-04-22
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A Really Hard Question.
Let's say you were God and you can perform any miracle you want.
How would you convince Richard Dawkins to believe in you?
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r/Christianity
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2009-04-22
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I would... convince Richard Dawkins to believe in me. Miracle.
"My name is the LORD."
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2009-04-22
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Take him to the precambrian, and show him some rabbits.
next.
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r/Christianity
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2009-04-22
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Because humans are social creatures and need each other to live well. In order to get along in a family, tribe or city, you must treat people fairly. This was Jesus's main teaching of love everyone which most reasonable people agree is a good way to live. It's all the bronze-age nonsense that hangs up theists and nontheists alike.
The golden rule was also around long before 4000 years ago, if you want to get technical, too. Many other great humans had said the same thing, Jesus just had his own version of it.
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2009-04-22
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Or any other sort of dogma (nationalism, communism, racism). I'm pretty sure anyone who says rape is okay if god declares it would think different if it happened to them.
Some people just lack empathy-but that's not new information.
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2009-04-22
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I think he did equate "it made sense at the time" to "just following orders".
Don't you have to use your own morality to determine that god is good in the first place? By your logic the satanist's bible could just as easily define your morals because satan wrote it.
If you don't apply your own conscience then you are lost without a paddle.
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2009-04-22
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Ok, now ask yourself how he would respond to that. Do you really think he would just start believing in you? Or would he assume you drugged him, or it was a movie, or some trick, or some illusion. Or maybe he'd believe you invented time travel.
Do you really think he would believe you were God just because he saw some rabbits?
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2009-04-22
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Things are usually more nuanced and complicated than simple black and white answers. Even god apparently changes his mind and makes news covenants and laws ;)
I would say they have the right to be pro-marijuana just as much as their neighbors have the right to be anti-legalization. Our government gives everyone a voice and that is what our society has agreed upon. However, I'd like to note that laws and governments are not equated to morality. It's just the best system we have made that allows cooperation and hopefully the best chance at the life we have here.
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2009-04-22
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I agree with you and have said the same thing before. I really doubt my morality is superior to God's but I do know mine is superior to that of what people claim to be god's will in the OT.
Might does not make right.
If God wants us to be free to believe in him or not, then I would also suspect he wants us to love others and follow our heart on our own and not just follow his every command. He didn't want to just build robots, right?
We feel empathy for a reason.
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2009-04-22
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If God as an entity truely exists, he would be so far beyond mortal comprehension that to try to understand his thinking would be extremely arrogant.
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2009-04-22
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Before convincing him he is god, he would first have to define what god is and why he is considered one. Is he almighty and all powerful, if so, let him make the rock he can't lift. If he can't, then is he truly a god or just a more powerful entity. I may seem like a god to an ant, but am I truly an all powerful creature, or just a more powerful creature? Does being a more powerful creature make me a god?
The mere idea of a being considering itself a god is more of a debate than whether or not this fictional character exists.
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2009-04-22
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I think that's a fair assessment. God is something you get to know personally and not from anyone else telling you what to believe.
But what do I know I'm an atheist.
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2009-04-22
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What a sad failure by all of you.
He asked if *you* believe...
All you did here was quote scripture.
It seems you use the bible as a crux every time you are asked to explore your own idea of morality.
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2009-04-22
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Wouldn't he be more pleased with humans treating each other fairly and loving each other? I think he's asking if you can make any rules...why choose something like animal sacrifice rather than say, playing a song or doing a rain dance? Why is the smell of blood so important? I understand wanting some offering of acknowledgment. Just not that one.
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2009-04-22
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well that's silly. I laid out the parameters of this problem pretty clearly. It's not very complicated.
You can do anything you want. Convince Richard Dawkins to believe in you.
Simple Answer. You can't because he would be looking for a scientific explanation for anything you did.
What does that mean? Atheism is not
falsifiable, if that makes any sense.
And yes there is a dragon in my garage. Whatever the ef that means.
Atheist turned Christian, a regular lewis fuckin carroll.
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2009-04-22
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Amoral means indifference to morals. God created gravity but he probably doesn't abide by it's laws. Wouldn't god also transcend his own moral creations?
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2009-04-22
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2009-04-22
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2009-04-22
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"YOU CAN DO ANYTHING."
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2009-04-22
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i think if i were god i'd be able to just make him convinced. like, i would be able to make him truly feel it and believe deeply in the same way that religious followers who came to know god's perfection on their own do.
that is, if I, a person, were god, but we all know god isn't like a person, right?
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2009-04-22
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>Is he almighty and all powerful?
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2009-04-22
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I keep saying that it shouldn't and doesn't contradict my conscience. It's hard to discuss this if you won't read what I'm writing.
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2009-04-22
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Funny, I seem to have found the much more simple answer.
I don't have to give burnt offerings, I don't have to carefully observe hundreds of commands on what fabric to wear, what food to eat, when to work and when to rest.
In fact, I only had to make one single simple decision. I only had to accept the ultimate burnt offering and say "yes, this sacrifice is on my behalf as well." It was quite a simple and easy decision for me to make.
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2009-04-22
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>Wouldn't he be more pleased with humans treating each other fairly and loving each other?
God is pleased with that. Another major theme in the Pentateuch is the idea of honouring and loving your family, neighbours and countrymen, and treating aliens just as you would treat a fellow countryman.
When Israel settled in Canaan, each tribe was given land to live on, to farm, and to raise their flocks and herds. This land was bequeathed to them and supposed to stay in their tribe for as long as they kept faith with God. The Levites were given a few cities, but no lands at all to call their own. Part of the reason for sacrifices was to feed the Levites.
>I think he's asking if you can make any rules...why choose something like animal sacrifice rather than say, playing a song or doing a rain dance?
I'm not entirely certain, but I would guess it was to put in place a system of worship of God that was unique and different from the other religions in that area. God loves when his people stay loyal to him and keep faith with him, he hates it when people betray him and reject him, so he put things in place to ensure that the rebellious Israelites would stay loyal to him.
In many parts of the Old Testament, it does talk about how music and dancing are ways to praise God.
>Why is the smell of blood so important?
I don't think God has a physical nose, so I think him asking for Israel to make sacrifices that are an aroma pleasing to him is largely a metaphor that the people of Israel could understand.
So I think sacrifices where an object lesson, a symbol, something the people of Israel could understand, and traditions set up to help abate the worship of other gods.
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2009-04-22
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I wonder if the denizens of Christianity.reddit miss the point of this, or just ignore it?
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2009-04-22
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So if I get your logic right, Slavery and Genocide don't contradict your conscience because God did it/ordered the Israelites to do it in the Bible, and as God cannot be anything other then Moral, these things were/are moral?
So please answer my questions above. Are Slavery and Genocide moral?Yes or No?
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2009-04-22
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A still small voice.
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2009-04-22
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*woosh*.
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r/Christianity
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2009-04-22
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Z0FBQUFBQm9jNEs1aEhlZUNrY3lja1N5QV9CQjZQUDNZc240aWZXMVBzdk5WOHgwT1p2MFRTcHNPSHBOU1B1b0dvSDVFOE9HTFpTZG1uUFQ0bV9pR2xxUHRqeW51b3d1RlJtWWNjMENWUTYzMnV3bkZxS3Bmd01wTE00RUdhVGVOVF94RXdUeGMwRmx6VFVPUDJxaldEY0t5eGF5T3o5cXRJLUtiQW5EMG9RdkxOeHlpRGl2UjkwMno5cklDUVlsSUp3b3o5aTR1blFna1Rvby1ZdXBRb3pOeFFJNVJreGljeFRWbG10cl9URlRMeGNWbFJ4a1oyUT0=
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Funny world isn't it, many have moved on to other faiths or faith-less using the same set of initial conditions.
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r/christianity
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comment
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r/Christianity
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2009-04-22
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Z0FBQUFBQm9jNEtsR1hUaUIzNFdOVk1PRHFYNGJDSjI2cFJCblN3Z09kdzFYZ1R3d0g5ajZ1Z0haTExCOUE4Vll2b1BiS0p5a2xacEh3NVlRM2JMX1hMMWRJOEhHaG1zZ2c9PQ==
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Z0FBQUFBQm9jNEs1Q1NHRGp6QjlSNUR5d3Z6NUdPN19zYWZ1S1BOM0lsRlF5Q0MtUDdVQVc2QVhlZXFDZjI1R3ExZ2w4TGhrN1cyb2RNZEZfR1dCY3JWTWhJejdCLWVmTERGR21OVXRNQU9PX2VuR1lwdUtVRzg0NlpJeTdodkVlQnRFTGpXZ1N6VW91UDU0TV8xbFNRZDRib0xXOTN2ZllpWnJrZ0dza3dMb3M3TnZmcGdoRDVrMktON3RXUkNLdVJJZEp1NDljY1JpLWVseDd4MjZ2dEI2U2ttdGlKVl9rQT09
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Approximately, but not necessarily in all its details.
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r/christianity
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comment
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r/Christianity
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2009-04-22
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Z0FBQUFBQm9jNEtsTExReFE5VzlqQ0N5OGhyMi1YQmVkcU9pUl9TRFRjVTZpdGdBelNVU0hZWmhLN1ZmMGhiSVRGSEJHMk4taFo4QzI3Q3ZZWm1iN0JBcGp3OHNLSkRUakE9PQ==
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Z0FBQUFBQm9jNEs1SmZUWTdyeHpodFZETnRHX3o1cDNjMWF3eV9seTF2dW9adi1PTTE1c055c3BGTE5YQzRQZnZ1NkNVR3NKaVdsTDc0OU5NbzY5czBZRnJHZGFwVEZZTDFiXy1ydm9XWHpnNTVaaDBwOFNHT25JTk43ZGFYNVRhN2dwaGlzVTMtVDRxTi1QaGFXTkwwQi05cTdMc1NWQ0MtVDVVQXRldHU0bXNSZHVMU3VFTWZ0eS1lZjdnV18tUWNGMjJtSWtMZUZ5TDlFWjF1bFFFNlJMOXo5Nnk0dXJ4UT09
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He's just an atheist scientist, he's not a stupid. If God exists, and if he can prove it, there's no reason to follow the opinon proved wrong.
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r/christianity
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comment
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r/Christianity
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2009-04-22
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Z0FBQUFBQm9jNEtscmlXRkNQa19SVGZPNlZNZG9haU5RajRBdVd4RzFoc1VHMTZBMUpRN0xGaEpnMzlpZjZaUnFoU0tzWjQyQkRMYk5WaXo4amE4YTY3Sm9FekxXMkdvZEE9PQ==
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Z0FBQUFBQm9jNEs1RHRfZ1RQVFgwa2VLbWZEa1JkYWVfeDZrdFljT0VaZDRkMHZDNnFGT3lrZjEwVl9ydW5GTElmMkhHclBMZjdoeTJIMVU0Z1FSLUx1eVlIOVpoSkhJaDdtbzFqd2xRVmRtUm9INTZ2d0J4MU9HOENlZVVrZjZiWi15MVp1ZE9Zbnl1eWRobFlWdTEtNGoxN3luem1sUHFLd2JhRUZhSnY1ckNhMUVpSmFraFdhMm56bVFHUllUdE8yVUYwcFB4VXA4WnNIUVBMU0duQzhXendJS0pWbmZ5a2xKM0xDRElGMDRTZi1WZC1ncDJGbz0=
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I'm pretty sure they get it.
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r/christianity
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comment
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r/Christianity
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2009-04-22
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Z0FBQUFBQm9jNEtsMnpNb1hlSmN1Z0duT043UVdJVTlqVUc2aUdVZ3NJZXNqNjcwS3doMmVDMTBfY1VMNU5qdlQwVHVSeUdhUXpHWGRNTmZ5OFNkSFh0UzM2Tk9TU3d6MGc9PQ==
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Z0FBQUFBQm9jNEs1NmU1U25VUC1WVHQ0eHhwbU9pb3JVeDNndElZTUJTbGpBR1k2YmY0N29kRW1GVHRRdGpmVFhmQ05BUG12c2NnNndLMm5wWW5Jd0FoSVJ1eVFpeDJvZC14MWJsbTg3R05SNDE4dmhKcHM2SEhsLTAxMm9wNnRkYVdPTWVyejN0WlVsbkhKLVduRENTUklSNHFCX3NTZ3lIblRmRkpQRnR4T2c3M1YwLU9XbjZ5RmFZV2lhZURORndDUkxKNnBqUlN2aVhoZy1lckNhWU1tbU0weUtKOVUweVBMa0VOVHhSNjFDSjhyTHNUUGdGMD0=
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Easy : take out his rib, blow on it and make a woman out of it. All in his conscious presence. That would make me believe in the Abrahamic God, and I guess it would do the trick for Dawkins too.
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r/christianity
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comment
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r/Christianity
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2009-04-22
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Z0FBQUFBQm9jNEtsV0JiSWRRcWtyc1ByYTNYNUg2ZUN2ejlkT2lxUlJpWlVOTmdUVUNidjN6cWF5YjR3TTE5VEp4cmdGb3d6bm1QNm9rdkJtRTczZUtfZXBKR2tSN0Uxanc9PQ==
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Z0FBQUFBQm9jNEs1TllYeUFlMC02bzdJRUYxLTNPUHlHSVpKRlBqWlZybmN6cml0bkdZZno5VzJhSVQ4TktjUllPUEdtMzE1R2FJOGZJV3lVamF6bXlIWGs3QXd0cVRTbFZoWWdfdWlUWkJBaW5ka2phTXhPbm12cGJZVnVRNE1uSEpoei1pb21EbzM3LVlhOFc3bmpQc05EOHdnc045LU5qU0RnN084RUJyaTJGYjM4R1RvNzFsTzFQV1RfamQ0TEtqNkNoWTdFRGlwOW9SODhWT3EzYnJUaHBveGVfWmM4VE1OTnhQc09RRHRHU3RSd0N4bWlEUT0=
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Ted,
My idea of morality is defined by the Gospel. I'm glad to use it as a crux because it is the true word of God. I believe the Gospel therefore quoting it is my belief.
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r/christianity
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comment
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r/Christianity
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2009-04-22
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Z0FBQUFBQm9jNEtsSHgtbWc3Y0hoOHgxQjJ2dGE3NmRldUoxVWJGalVCUmtPY3JzTko3VXBVNWo0YTNfU3lwV1FjVXZ3bWJZYWJHMjZzVlpaVC15S284Z3lUUmtzZDZfamc9PQ==
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Z0FBQUFBQm9jNEs1ZWNacFlGUTlKNWVXX0tHdnVZM01pS1dxMjFUVmxCX2t1b3d1MEFvNVVCNXEyUjdWUUFkYm5rajNUa2wtQ3FTSHpYRGZGa0V1RjNaUTZxSmludEozTkRNOXYwU0R2cVBaSm9WcVpGcXlkWkZMd2c2MHU3bW1hdXh5X3Z1NURVX0gzX082WFNpbU9jdTlRV2ptU2cxT0VtNGsyYkh6Nk9zMGRmSHIza0o4TVZlVmxNalk2TlVjdVAwWWRXQ2ZWUUFiWGVqZGRCSjhEdmM2ZGhQNXpGNGhxdz09
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If God = Truth, which is a standard Christian belief, then my argument is correct. I challenge you to point out any error of reasoning. Otherwise I'll assume that you're insulting me because you can't stand to have your beliefs challenged.
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r/christianity
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comment
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r/Christianity
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2009-04-22
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Z0FBQUFBQm9jNEtsMEFEbkZwbU5WOHZQQ2duSVd5R0pjeDJMckZwckRjWWZNeXNfZG9nenYybzc1WC10N1F0NzdiOFlzU0I2bV9mcEw1TEJOempGVzRqNFg2ZGFBd2JMVXc9PQ==
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Z0FBQUFBQm9jNEs1XzJQbUF3eWlYSURlMVVkLWhFeWlIakE3bjFhcjVnUW5YR2xxUlE0Z2NGVDYzWjdDNVlNTnZnbC1BOEgwRXltTkI4N3kyOGxxZWFRLUpEQWVTZXJ3M2Q1bFZPUm82cndWV21zTHhEZ0RQRi1CMmRUTGJKN3EyX2pPM3pFMHY0ZzBZaFVMMlFiTUFEbU40cll3WU1oRnphZWV0bl82MHRBejBRa2ltVlQzVVhGREZxbThYX2p4WHRIVXFrd1JaUzdTeGF3RFo1S0NpZ3lEY2dQck9JNnpDQT09
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If I'm God why do I need to convince Dawkins?
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r/christianity
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comment
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r/Christianity
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2009-04-22
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Z0FBQUFBQm9jNEtsNXByb1lmMnd1M2NCbVNlQnRaNHJCejJOb2tIdHBaZW9NVGRQaE9TYmROczVZczl0T0dVYzczWHhWeUJxSFZ5MENkZjR5QnVGTGF2RXZ0RWVfRlpVZEE9PQ==
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Z0FBQUFBQm9jNEs1U2tNT1Zud2ctYmVESVVyQ0tPTXJFRU1Sb0tEX2hUQ1F3aEFMT19MVGNMQ2xPdThPTjZxaUw0Z0pmeHcxb2dUWmhDcFdSZW9lUEtvdENETzUxQjMyYXFJcm1kU2VxZHJTR0FQVl9FeDB2ZXRkSWpINHlENGcya2tNcTQxNGd2dng1eDQ0cmZXS3daUzRJMU56MURHVnozZHQ0VmVMOGpVOHNQaDdIOGU1RlFOWnFBaDNZNkdwMzF6WlhoOUlJbVNnTWtzNGlUSXFCRmhucEVFb01BZzdtRVlFZ2xmeHo3WVNjMFc2X2JmRklXdz0=
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I don't think arrogant is the right word, surely there's nothing bad about trying to understand something
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r/christianity
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comment
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r/Christianity
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2009-04-22
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Z0FBQUFBQm9jNEtsQUVWcDd5dHFwcklUVmdvVDg0R2lzME1KOEdoRDhweE1xN2tuOFk5M1NxdU1GMWFfODZqYURZQm94Ykk5Rmszdk4zNHF2NzdueHA1dzUwUThiWG80UGc9PQ==
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Z0FBQUFBQm9jNEs1R0x5aUFYZHVxcWpsblU0UzFyM1ppZS03RlBDZ0dMZXY0M1ZPcG1UQ2ctRlczV012M3lod1FUS0NkM2t5b3hwWHJrMFZPcHZrSG5reERqU3NidW45bXhkMXpIUjVkN3IwaElCaXcwZ0pPQXJ2a2wzNFZjUkpvRTlxRnJxTm5oQ2hsUzZqX016UUtHZ0pWSFdBZ0hRLUtMQ2xTd1NVV01BT2lQNTB0WkVpR2JYMFJNejI5TjVvQnFEczhQTGdNa3JEU2VlcWYxZmhTekY0cG56a0JwcDMzQT09
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Would it not then be just as arrogant to say that we understand his word and his teaching, if he is indeed so beyond our mortal comprehension? If god was able to sum up his teachings into a book that MANY people claim to understand and to follow, why could god not be capable of passing along more "words" to help us understand his thinking?
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r/christianity
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comment
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r/Christianity
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2009-04-22
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Z0FBQUFBQm9jNEtsSDg5VTkzd0xtaHJHN29NQ3kyTnZIWUZjZV9wc1p4UmxtNERkcjJNbEkxSkV5S2tNc3VEVjU2OXg0WXVWcWx0ZURhMDJ3ajl0M0xSU1NFUm42cDRSYlE9PQ==
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Z0FBQUFBQm9jNEs1Q2J2ODV2bGtVM3Y1S2RxWVZ0VWRqMF9zRUp6RGpxeGZ3R3ZBTUhsMHgwSXRXQ0EyQ25aQ2h0NUJZaDFZMFFMT2hFdko3MmlWRGREX1h0cjc4R2MzWGRoRjAwNEdNQkVuUC1YOWM4b1NIdnUyTTVuQmhYdWZJUDhwbnk2M01TTjVaYTdTREtXX2szNi1WSXZXRjNEZHlmUExVWEZaNEI1ZmFZTy10N1FkeVhiRGQ0ay1JNmRlcUF4QWNuY3dxd1ZyYS1sLVlmYTcwb0hhNk8xdDJWbHZYZz09
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I'm pretty sure the Almighty isn't afraid to write down the vowels of his own name.
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r/christianity
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comment
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r/Christianity
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2009-04-22
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Z0FBQUFBQm9jNEtsNU16R3ZoSHRWTHJyd0QzclVoY1U0dmlVdWZMYnNkOXBOVWtJQVdyeHZ0S3BVWF9BU0d5aW42QXN1eFVycmxQM1Bkb3lHOGFvNU1ZSUFtY3pxOWtsREE9PQ==
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Maybe the best thing to do then would be to make Dawkins believe. Why try to convince him at all if you can just rewrite his beliefs?
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r/christianity
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comment
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r/Christianity
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2009-04-22
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Z0FBQUFBQm9jNEtsa244S3dCQ2RtSFNFMW9rNXN3VlpUSjhNT1BwYXRBSVpVZGo0dW9KN2lyeHdFZmEyYXl1bFVhdTR5QWVLazdGQXBtTFY5b0V5SVUyYnVVeEpTYjRXU0E9PQ==
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Z0FBQUFBQm9jNEs1NEgzQzQyLWxnZ1ZiemVRXzVQWC1UZlhUTDlNTy1MaW9LQjF0S1IwRG05cnNBajBVanpmNEJrcm5EWU01UzBZdWxFbEJoWDBmakRBdXdBaGRvMjVtRldmLXRfMnpaZFhRVktUNXpOSmZKSlB0bFB4b0NscHBLMWYzanY1SFJjbE9adktteUFTcWwxTzZiVFIzWHRMX2Jab1QwYVVWYTZJUUlNeV9CWmFPNjh1XzJlQU1XZ2tMa3AyX1RtOFJHVUJxYmZxUjJZbEd3UktVYm5sNVhRVzZlYl9HQmdqbENHSk13WlpZWXhFVVpjZz0=
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Better question:
How would I convince you to believe I'm God? I promise to do a better job than the other guy.
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r/christianity
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comment
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r/Christianity
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2009-04-22
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Z0FBQUFBQm9jNEtsSU9oTUhfS3QtdElnVGJwbnBRaUZPd3ZMUGVoa3NuclpVdXFnNmtIQktxOEF4MmZRaXk3UHIxTUxIeEhUNE9zV2R3YnRobFRIak54cnJ4ajh4MWtfNkE9PQ==
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Z0FBQUFBQm9jNEs1NXBMZE5FcWcwWVZVaEJlcjdxRHVJbXBhakRoaTJuUFh5SUtmYjNiOHZCVTJfMHNqaHM2bWVOQ1NMTjlHMl9yc2szVmVIU2ZzTmNvZEM3NHIwenl1Um13cFpuNUZhWmJWZkdkSDNTSFc3QU5uLWl0RXEtczJQRzVRN050amppWkprYUFVOU5jOWFlMHdocTF3ektHUWFwdlNJeU1XQVQyUTRURFJvcVlaQWs2Rk16NjVCMGhjRkFaQUw5ZC1RMHlLY2VESzA4UVJyRmNMVVQ2bE4yVmltSVVYTm1Xanh5ZFJhN2xoYXM2aktzVT0=
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Welcome to Christianity, where they believe we should all to be tortured forever because a teenage girl ate the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil.
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r/christianity
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comment
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r/Christianity
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2009-04-22
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Z0FBQUFBQm9jNEtsQW5vaG1zekpkX0Y1RWdtTWxFYWRGUk1uYklfRmdpWFBwcXVLdi04TUpGbVhSdTRSWWk2andnTVZDQ3JEZzdrYy1Vd0xnR0lfUDZFWndKRnNLV0ZFaUE9PQ==
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Z0FBQUFBQm9jNEs1VDg0VXJJeVVOMXpGZ2lvYm9RSmVZUll5SWc3ekhwTnlsNzVUWldnblhOVnMyTDlnaWd5YUROZURpOG9hSnZrSlJJd3BmZHRJMldlSEpULU5hRE5sQlp0RXl2WlZPU3k4U21SMGZtTE9pNW05Vm9kd0FaMThJc1ZqZ09SdnZFajczci1LQi1tNnFubEM1SkktSGlpSHZDLTVKX1hWcWZZbnZUTHVHM3JHNnpYRlh1WWlpZW1KRGM5RFFXMWI2Q2JqcllEY3VpQU4zZXd2V2RUaloycGZCQT09
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I've yet to come across an ideology that doesn't draw on the theme of crafting an ideal community with a rigidly coherent social, political and legal system increasingly free of whatever problem the system is crafted to address, and other concomitant problems. Some go further.
You can find it nationalist movements, separatist movements, theocratic coups, communist and socialist manifestos, liberal treatises, libertarian screeds, hippy communes, transhuman disquisitions, technological prognostications and in pretty much any piece of literature that celebrates a particular economic or political system as "the end of history."
This is at the heart of almost all philosophy that deals with ethics more than abstractly.
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r/christianity
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comment
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r/Christianity
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2009-04-22
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Z0FBQUFBQm9jNEtsWGc3Y0t1aVFCQTUybGJ6WFkxSnEyWkFsR05sSF9EeWpDNWcxY2kwTVFpc3NYUm9fRDM2WU5HYjNHS2lWMXdwcHcydGhhZW5hd3RpZXFpZlBTaXRVV3c9PQ==
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Z0FBQUFBQm9jNEs1aWZ6NEdLbVVsMjJueUd1QjRWOXVVbE0zX1lsMmpiaHhJZHBOSEhmRGRlWUhVMWdPN0d4cFkyODRhZ1VDc1hIUzFPR1dfYmJYT1UxUW1MOXBwaVJRRzF3NU4wLWZHNXdjMXlld1JMV0ZrRnhLbWRua3g2T2NiNEplM0lZSGt6S3RWM1paUUhPMWNuRE9weTY4b1dDZkNJdVlFcmRVbjg0TF9Pb1VVUkdLNm1aZWxaSnFCQ3FyY3FhQ2NzdkdKT1RfeXBwM2gwZml6QTlrUGJxTm04WUVLUT09
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Out of love?
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r/christianity
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comment
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r/Christianity
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2009-04-22
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Z0FBQUFBQm9jNEtsTHJqLUVxTktMcmtJMnBWNnBhbEpBRmo0aFNma3hmT01XcVRBd0xqN3RmTGl6d2J3bWxyOTdhek03NWVob01WNTZxcXBtWTlpeGpILUVYMXRoR3l2UWc9PQ==
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Most people know what a carrot is. I expect that most people would struggle to rigorously define a carrot.
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r/christianity
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comment
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r/Christianity
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2009-04-22
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Z0FBQUFBQm9jNEtscGpJb1VGT2c3UlhvWGtDZjhyLUtNYXI3Yk44TjlrckhteEVRNWI5dG9ETFZubGJZQ0ZTREwxQ1BMX3E1Z1VLNWxuU1Q5WFY4RWVaTVVjd0tvWnE4eVE9PQ==
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hysterical.
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r/christianity
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comment
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r/Christianity
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2009-04-22
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Z0FBQUFBQm9jNEtsd0xaOHFnRmZYUWJQMzEwRUhFZmFfTFFGYUZxUGlORnl4ejZRUUQzYXpBWU9iMFFGbGpHbnFmUmhPN3RJUkRhMUl5b2lSZEYydzU4OE53QUV3eTkwelBmQTJkUU9hdTNMaXVfdlNYQ2hQcXM9
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Z0FBQUFBQm9jNEs1VUlHYWxDU2oxejhYN3M1MHZxeGl2VlRNZU5FMEV3YjJMSEZHMEpEUzRHV0VCOHg5cHFCUkJKNUtJSkRUekxNb19abTR5ajNmVGZjZkw4VGlrdXc0XzdCUUw4NXJDSzlwWktXME9hTDhBLWFucEFlMG90N1VSbkxtVkhkaVZuT0VUY1N6V0ZYYS1hY2p3aDBqNllaT2Rpc2NvdVk3MHZMbXY5Zkd3QTFNQzRUamRtcUVMU0ZsTVNLa0dlcEFQa1RNOXkyazU5VnNzMndhcDNSZnlkeVpndXoyX1dqY2pSTHFxLXk3TkkzSUtDTT0=
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then why are they still in the subreddit?
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r/christianity
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comment
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r/Christianity
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2009-04-22
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Z0FBQUFBQm9jNEtsMVFiNnJJcmpQUmZ1RHRiVWFVWXpVQlE2LW91TGQ2ekdJdnJwQjRtMTBZbmx0dDVuR19SS21uTlRUaUFhX1NQLUVfam45eHlrN2JvdjZ5aS1aMVpIcFE9PQ==
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Z0FBQUFBQm9jNEs1MkJtNS1hd0hSR3FtUllmdjZrQXhQeGItT0FMVWxFRFJtX0VZVUJ2Rk1ZdWtabWlCLUprZFYwOVZFZ1JXdlFvWGRuZ0V1RW9VUWxOc3ZlcUpubURXa2NqMFVmX0FLc0NBUktXVWNQTkx1aXhGYmZ6RnRsazRiZ2R4RnFTakFzdVRDVTVjTVlGNHllUWh5VGdGMUVIVFBrOEwwNG9xWkl2eDdZSmtOTGpnVUo0MTFpTFk4SHV6QmZ3anoyUkNWTTFpTHlVT21HdVNZOV84dm56U25uRnd2emg5YmVSQm50YzE2M3Vxa3hUbzIzaz0=
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So what you are saying is you would have to refer to the bible to get your belief on a certain topic, as opposed to forming it with your own free will.
Nice. Sounds like totalitarianism to me but if your ok with blind obedience...fair enough.
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2009-04-22
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Z0FBQUFBQm9jNEs1TkZVRkl4bmpMTlZHRWNjLVV0eEYyUl8yNWRoNUxCZUtBOTVsN2NUZzAtOUx2Um9XNDg3ejdxcEVDLW0wa1BmRVBVNVU4cTRfZFRHbVJLVWxfdWVkc3VwZzVzU256cVUwcE4tT1RRU0hFZXNvNXVXZC1ZbGpoQzllWUtNb3ZLRnRYVlNvQlI1WjhrTlp1ejByMlNNUjkySzk3a3duT0c4Wl9HQkVDS3Zkc2FEVEtUcVR1MVFmU2dLRGFMaURQd2VvRGQ0X3JTUVlhaG4yaEs5SWJHZy1oUT09
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But if he's not good, then why worship him? Is it a power/domination/submission thing?
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2009-04-22
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[Are these carrots?](http://gstuff.co.nz/shop/garden/images/Carrot_PurpleHaze.jpg)
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2009-04-22
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I am Yahweh!! Shniken knows that I will smite him if he uses those vowels, but I love him.
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2009-04-22
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The whole point of rationality is to question the fact that God = Truth, not to assume it is the case. IE, to question the whole validity of Christianity. If you are unable to do that, then the original claim that rationality is a major tenet of Christianity completely bogus.
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2009-04-23
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> Would it not then be just as arrogant to say that we understand his word and his teaching, if he is indeed so beyond our mortal comprehension?
Why would God give His word to humans and not simplify it enough for human understanding?
> If god was able to sum up his teachings into a book that MANY people claim to understand and to follow, why could god not be capable of passing along more "words" to help us understand his thinking?
So you believe that more words would let us know His thinking. Do you even believe that there are true realities beyond the comprehension of even the smartest of humans?
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2009-04-23
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> Amoral means indifference to morals. God created gravity but he probably doesn't abide by it's laws. Wouldn't god also transcend his own moral creations?
Transcending is indifference?
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2009-04-23
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indifference may not be quite the right word. "Without regard to" or "not justified either way" is ammoral.
Baseball, post it notes, grass...these are ammoral things. They are neither immoral or moral.
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2009-04-23
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The Bible, for me, gives me a moral compass based on the word of God. My free will is intact but is guided by the teachings of the Bible which helps me make ethical and moral decisions in everyday life.
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2009-04-23
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'Evidence' is not an answer to the question, it's too broad: What evidence do you want? When Christians where asked this question in reverse, many answered with respectful concise answers.
In addition, there IS evidence. We have a book full of many first-hand accounts of events in which God took place written over a 1100 year period by many different people. There are also archeological finds that back up many stories from the bible.
Clearly this evidence isn't enough, so what would be enough would be the question.
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2009-04-23
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"Why would God give His word to humans and not simplify it enough for human understanding?"
My point exactly. If he was able to simplify his words enough in the bible, then why would he not be able to simplify his words enough for us to understand for other parts of his thinking that were not represented in the bible?
I do believe that there are MANY realities that we are not able to comprehend. Our brains are not capable of some sorts of understanding, like say, how existence came to be.
My point was that religious people claim to know god's word through "his" book. So, at one point, god was able to sum up his thoughts and his teachings in a simple enough way to put in a book that we as humans can understand. Now, I believe that is total BS. I don't believe in any of those books or in anybody who claims to know god's word. But let's just say, for the sake of the point I was trying to make, that the bible is totally true, that it is all fact. Why could god not answer this question and other questions like it for us in a simplified way?
The OP said "If God as an entity truely exists, he would be so far beyond mortal comprehension that to try to understand his thinking would be extremely arrogant."
And according to Christians the bible is god's word. So would this then not be saying that it is arrogant for anybody to say that they know what god wants in any circumstance? Even when speaking from the bible? If
I'm saying, if god is able to simplify his thoughts, then why is he not doing just that? If he is able to simplify shit to a level that we can understand, then why is god not doing just that? The only possible answers to this question are circular ones like, "well he can, but he won't because... etc, etc, etc..." Or the answer is that he cannot simplify his words to a level that we would understand and therefore the bible is a load of crap. Or it isn't a load of crap, and it is god's word, but for us to say that we understand it is arrogant, like the OP said.
And YES. I do think that MORE WORDS WOULD HELP! Clearly there are some mixed messages being received from the bible. Clearly it's pretty friggin confusing, otherwise we would all be on the same page. In what scenario has more words NOT helped our understanding of something?
Is god all powerful? Apparently. So why then would there be anything that he could not simplify? If he is all powerful, that means that if he can simplify one thing that we as humans were incapable of understanding, then he can simplify everything. There can be no exception in the case of an all powerful entity or being.
I hope this clears things up for you a bit. to be clear, I do not believe in god, but I was raised in a catholic family and believed in that faith until just a few years ago. So that's where I'm coming from on this.
Thanks for your questions. Let me know if I can clear any of this up, since I did write this in a rush and it is a lot to take in.
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2009-04-23
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> Is god all powerful? Apparently. So why then would there be anything that he could not simplify?
Ah assuming the nature of God and refuting it. I tend to see a lot of straw-gods from nonchristians.
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2009-04-23
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Rationality is the use of reason; reason is logical thinking. The point of rationality is not to question the statement God = Truth, but to examine whether it follows from logical arguments and, if so, what consequences the statement has.
Of course, to study the statement God = Truth, one must first define what is meant by God and by Truth. This is a pretty weighty topic which Aquinas, of course, discusses at length. *Summa*, question 16 article 5 specifically addresses the question we're considering; you can read his thoughts at http://www.newadvent.org/summa/1016.htm if you like. The main part of his answer is:
>As said above (Article 1), truth is found in the intellect according as it apprehends a thing as it is; and in things according as they have being conformable to an intellect. This is to the greatest degree found in God. For His being is not only conformed to His intellect, but it is the very act of His intellect; and His act of understanding is the measure and cause of every other being and of every other intellect, and He Himself is His own existence and act of understanding. Whence it follows not only that truth is in Him, but that He is truth itself, and the sovereign and first truth.
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2009-04-23
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So then is god not all powerful? What are your beliefs about god?
The problem is that I hear so many versions of god from so many different people who all claim the same religious affiliations. It's impossible for me to know what you believe to be true about god. Maybe you could inform me a bit about what you believe instead of simply dismissing my entire response due to three sentences.
These are just questions I have. I was trying to be as pleasant when responding to you as possible, I can't say that I'm not a little upset that your response to me was so arrogant. You asked me questions, I attempted to answer them as best I could and also pose some of my questions to you. The subject we are talking about is one that has no definitive answer, we are all just doing our best to understand. I wish that you could be more open about your beliefs instead of being so arrogant. Maybe if you allowed yourself to think a little bit instead of assuming that you have all the answers then you would actually gain something from conversations with people of differing beliefs. That's all I'm trying to do and so far from you I've gained nothing, but not from lack of trying on my part.
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2009-04-23
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You know what? Forget I said anything. I read a lot of your other posts. No use in having a discussion with you, apparently there's no discussion to be had. Have a nice day.
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> There are also archeological finds that back up many stories from the bible.
Archeological finds that back up that there was once a flood or finds that prove that a mystical all powerful being came back from the dead? Please, do go into great detail about these finds that prove that magic used to exist.
> We have a book
The Greeks also had lots of books documenting the adventures of Zeus and the other gods. Is all the evidence we need is that people used to make up bullshit thousands of years ago as well?
> so what would be enough would be the question
Any evidence that proved that Jews used to have a magic god that could conquer every law of science and that another Jew could perform magic and even return from the dead.
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2009-04-23
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Z0FBQUFBQm9jNEtsM1hDXzhPNHlObW1zTU5aYnZTVDd2b3ptVHgwd3FQcnVEZllmd25HRkxnR3FtOVNqYlMxb0dDQktyRUU5TzF0TktWTzJhS3FVSFZLcTloZDctVmhzMXc9PQ==
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Z0FBQUFBQm9jNEs1Yy1IMURYNDFBSnhLUW8zVUZUdHhlNlNjQTlmQWt3ZEdFSndydjdoV2ZqSG5iaVUtSXZvdl9NdFpOd1dpQnJzbkJyT2tuMlEteVNwampxLXBmWmVIbjdjWS1RTXVzVVNjbXc0QzFRWThwT3pNSFNfNVRHM0dXM2FYM1ZTS2U3ZDU4WHV6Q0FHODJJN2Eyb2ZZZXJuQk5VSFd4VTZHN1Bia3YxVkhjcGR5eWphRm1Fci14X3dkRmRvVll1RkdHcVUwVjBFYnJ5MXcxNDRNcUo4ODR5WjhXQT09
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HA! And you said:
> I had no idea that there was a Christianity subreddit! Thank you, Gforce, for enlightening me. Now I must be off to go troll this new found land and post comments about "god" being imaginary. Tra la la.
I don't think you were wanting a discussion.
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r/christianity
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comment
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r/Christianity
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2009-04-23
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Z0FBQUFBQm9jNEtsLUpVLWZ6cnEzTVE3Ukg1bnBBQVVIcUtqUUdqYW1QUnpBMXgtMjZoRmcxcXRHbjhnMTM3ZHdLSHl4RGktYThBeWprWWRlSUU3N19IUHp3NndpVXVXRkE9PQ==
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Z0FBQUFBQm9jNEs1aVByLW9VV2Y2TnI3LTBYNndIMnlEaE9zdzY2S1VZSnpZSTFVd09Jbi1DaU1CYnBmcmRxeW82ZmVCYk5YaGlTWVVMMGp6VHE5ZlhVWUlrYXljeTJkOEVTRUVSVnZkd2t6WERRcGpfd25JYlFSdVFxVU1fZWdnWHZ3ZWZGWmY5SEczejJsY1c5TUFrSFoxbjMwRGh1YVoyblBCWjdwVnRZTlU4VS1pSFpBRjNwNkdIOHFUblBpWF9DeHgyNmxEdEEtbE1oSmMwOXZFcWdYNy1hQVB6NUVmUT09
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But the bible is inherently immoral. What exact morals do you get from the bible which aren't present in say Chimpanzee society? (Primate cultures frown on theft, murder, rape.)
And why do you need to get your morals from the bible as opposed to atheists who determine their own morals and by doing so seem to have a lower incarceration and divorce rate?
Also there are other religions which practice a higher morality like the Jains.
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r/christianity
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r/Christianity
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2009-04-23
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Z0FBQUFBQm9jNEtsWDM4bC1ITXRZeVJzdG9xZHN5YV9fVmVQejV1Q3p0U1VXcVlsZGxGUXN6bGhBRnZ2WlR2TFNGUjVUWVFvQzFnMHJBbEM3NF90LVlEUW05XzFaNW41TXc9PQ==
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Z0FBQUFBQm9jNEs1eGlCS2NZd2lkdkhuc1FaZk5ObGYwN0xhaXFoNm5mX1pjWkNtUXBISEVrNFZDeG83RzhyV1pYbEUwdXdSQ3ZFNHduZ3Zwd1ZOVjI4YTZvb1lzNUVNZ3J5d2pYQjRCOHd2NVVGV2p6Ni1lNllTWGdHNHBMRUdEUHNOck5rYk9QTTVQTExOTHdoUXdQcFQyTmpEa2NkcVRxN3NQVVVYWXBjV3gtNWJyS3R1LWRYWmhpYzBKMXY1c2xzSG8xNjB2MlBlSFhZUXh1Y29OekFEY0pYUTlXYWNNZz09
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That's what we around here call "circular reasoning".
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r/christianity
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comment
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r/Christianity
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2009-04-24
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Z0FBQUFBQm9jNEtsTHRxckdZS3dnV2Jjc1IyRTRPYkJyUzBuWkJpcmZUUGhCYTJmVTNxcGVsUDVsZDJDV0ZhbGlNYmo1SkRna21taUdZeHlZR1E0SVFLUW1pQjB1UkRPWUE9PQ==
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Z0FBQUFBQm9jNEs1TkpKNWhPUWNfQkxDUnhHTGJPalpqTHNnUEprWGprdElZMEZhcVNQVm5DSWpEanpqUjhPVl9OX3hfbWxTZ2RpUHdlT1pPcDdhWUlPLXY3MGNXY1pEaF9oYlFwNVFVVUhabEV0LV9obDVEVTZpYkxMOW9hSGpEZU1LS3lkM3VmRVdFTElMcFlka19QSkhUbHpFUm53MktjTGYxdnIwdVZRdWlrNFVRbFd3Qkd3VE12VGxEeTdpdjB0clc0NWdycjlUZ0s1RmkxYWxzQ2hieEctYWtjeldkdz09
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For the 'lulz'?
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r/christianity
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comment
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r/Christianity
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2009-04-24
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Z0FBQUFBQm9jNEtsZXdfUmpPYjFIcnQ5VFQzRTNveFd2VU1pU1NYMDg3R0lPU3BuY183NEJGbmY3dFQtVDZ2Q3g4TERhMnNncWhKeGlQWEJUSkoyRG80Rmc5WnB4Ympfbmc9PQ==
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Z0FBQUFBQm9jNEs1Zjg0cDRkS3l1WXFhRmlLLVJBNGJIUjRYZU91NGRlSHRHeHZ3VDBoMi1ZT05BUGNKMkpyT3BqenpESS1yVE1OeS1WR2dYWm5IcURzNFBKemxFQjFidGJON2ZzQmxpZVZaeGY2VHJMQVB4WWJkY2hMZEhzbjAxSFZFNS1jWVNXMmJBMGJoTGU1Q1NQOHJTX3pnd0I5NFdMYWNvdmhyZGNJQXR1cXhJeHZ1UWxXNU01ajI1ZEpRZXFrMDVscmJLNzQ2LUExc0xJUGJvMi01bmR1REFaaVBUMHFQSjR1M1dBVGJPNTluT2xiT0RUOD0=
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Those "serious questions" are all the same. If you poke someone a hundred times, will you really be surprised if they get annoyed nad frustrated?
Your 'serious questions' have been asked (and answered) on a daily basis you year after year, with every theist acting with the snug attitude they have disproved atheism. And when they get politely (or not politely) told they are the most recent of many thousands of religious people to ask the same stupid question...well, no matter how polite you are the believer will go crying about how mean atheists are.
Seriously, grow up and also please leave other people alone? If we wanted to get preached at by religious people we can go to one of the myriad places of worship on offer and get all the preaching we need.
We DON'T need it every few minutes that we're outside our homes every day.
Seriously...leave atheists and other non-believers alone. Religious people's 'serious questions' and 'challenging ideas' are anchient, and we've dealt with them on a daily basis. And most of them are paper thin 'the bible says' based arguments that won't even begin to convince anyone who doesn't believe in the bible.
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r/christianity
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r/Christianity
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2009-04-24
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Z0FBQUFBQm9jNEtsYUhZMnVXLWJpUUxRQWVzUEVYZGh6WElVSXRRd2JyQU4zM0dJVHg0WXl6SXVTdkFFWmlxYW5JTF92TmstVHZxVVZ6R0lrdHJ1el83WVVHTGV4SHFfMmc9PQ==
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Z0FBQUFBQm9jNEs1RnJVUnNicUNDbXN5SUxQb0RXTkFMYmdzUzRpN3hVRnhPdzlrdnk5R1E3dmFIUFhVeWNEc0F1ZkJmQXZZYU1uV295ZC1ld2xpQldweGd4M2tfeEJtQ0s2WWlqQzAtVVVZMnA2VDBrT0oyU2RRNFRQMVFzQ3RiUHhhM05oSDh1TjlUV09ydkdacWlSTGdLQ094LW1TV1dOaWJZc3NqaVp2dFo3dDZrc3R3eGNueF9QUnpISndyNDAybUlSSVgxVHZsYnF3THVWYUpxVTJFZk9VVUYwck9Fdz09
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"Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind". and "Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. In my view, this is the basis of morality and of many of the teachings of the Bible.
The problem is that many who claim to be Christians don't follow these commandments and thus corrupt the ministry of Christ by commiting crimes, getting divorced etc. They didn't have the unconditional love that would keep them out of trouble. If they did, they wouldn't commit the crime because they wouldn't want to harm the victim and they wouldn't get divorced because they loved and compromised to work through issues. Love keeps you from doing harm to others. All the commandments are summed up in the commandment "Love thy neighbor". If this commandment is followed truly then your morals are unquestionable. I agree, it isn't only Christians who have morals, obviously there are a lot of people in this world who have done wonderful things for humanity regardless of faith or religion. I choose to get my morals from the Bible because it is where my faith is grounded because I believe that Christ died for my sins. What better place to find morality than where your redemption lies.
I'm interested in hearing where you find immorality in the Bible besides stories where God teaches morality thru immorality.
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r/christianity
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r/Christianity
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2009-04-24
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Z0FBQUFBQm9jNEtsaURSZ1BncWxGV005SHpvQ2l4OFAzMDZVUzJERTRsYmcybXlLMEpzeXl1Z2dhS2wzTjZpWXlwdGhDV2JoYW56N0UxdjNYNnctRkE0UkdxZ085SVVvSFE9PQ==
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Z0FBQUFBQm9jNEs1R293eU1TTW1lcnVieFZ3czgzUEE4My1kWXN5aU9UMngxNU9qR3Q2dDl2ejdKZmRVYUJ5R3Axb3RweXhja2VmSjdIYnhrX1lSczdfdG9PVmhjRml6YkRLRjZpSnh2bXlhdjgzTmJwZnlGMUJuS05GSjNEdHVVcUFYcmQ1bnEzQTBWY3FlcHFmemZrTnRFS0JhNk1Jcnc5dWtHQW9LRlZqLXdjTXJwZUtMdW9IMEFYdVlxTC0yVENGQTd2Rk5IZ2pMTlE1cUJSMmlZSjM0OU83N1ZTS2d2UT09
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Why use words at all. Spiders automatically know how to spin webs, birds know how to fly south; why not just embed the knowledge from birth.
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r/christianity
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r/Christianity
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2009-04-24
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Z0FBQUFBQm9jNEtsSUxSMG5mV1JTeUcwVE44Y2tSaDdKWlUwZno1VVBJbDNJaHctbm9jNTA5VDhiUnM0TzhsWWxsay1KM2J1XzFXOG1VUTNqWUt2M3dUQVYyWnk5aV85cWc9PQ==
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Z0FBQUFBQm9jNEs1TVU5aVZQbWtYZ2twcmt6QnVhZWd6aUxfU1NVX2hVTFVjZnVuNU85SWo3aFNhcXZjc1h4OWtoOGhlS1JyNlBRYzhjOEdtTFQ3QklYRnNndVFoaTM2R3NRQXlqV1NXc0ttRTNFMHlTVXVORFRKaFdJRkJwSXZZVTEtWGhwZmlmVU9tLTNGNGp2NTFqMFJLazJGNUx1TmQ4TnFJZllJb3djc0YyTVVQYjZfTlBqSDRoOXFobUpEMndjM3dQVlF5WDRvZjhkS0ZlZ3N5ZzJoRVJTSVRDemVEdz09
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"Yahweh" vowel sounds are just a guess anyway. Whatever the real ones were have been lost for millenia.
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r/christianity
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r/Christianity
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2009-04-24
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Z0FBQUFBQm9jNEtsQUhOc0Ywd2RJU2FwdU14MFlTeFlMQ3ByMHYzVWNyUVVZbkJseGlFUVVndFJQRDlTTXlwbm4zak9qT0dXdXdCQUxhRHAzVFBNbTIzd0VSVG1IcUdKZWc9PQ==
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Z0FBQUFBQm9jNEs1dFA4ZTc3MHFuQjlYWGVPbmt0cUxYQzNhdHF5X3gzRWhqR0FVSXYyM3hseVV0SGF5emVmMkJzSUkycXV2WXZxeno0RmgwQmJTY3VVSWlsbWpLV20ycU1UWVIwWWF3YWV0TWN6a3FVTVp4azB3LVctbzQyVjNrbWRXaFFiSDdLU20wM0hwVDF6N1g4QXQyZGNJbVQtT1dWNHFrZDJZY2hpR3c0UGg5MTluX3VGQ2h3eVBDQmFYekczemYyUGRNNXprT2RjM0dXYzhiUW5nenVBWkRwc2N0TVhITXZZU2dZY3YwZExjd1U3eWJJWT0=
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Jesus convinced Peter by using Peter's profession as a fisherman and filling Peter's net with fish. He would probably convince Dawkins similarly if Dawkins cared to be convinced.
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r/christianity
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r/Christianity
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2009-04-24
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Z0FBQUFBQm9jNEtsR1NQdkh3RmMyMUQ5aGo2a0UtRm04c2stVGQ2bTB2SGZXU1ZWQ0tCRXNaNVlNbjZlTXdpT0taREF4aU1teFR4TzFBbTRLWV9Gd3UtOHlabl8xQThXVEE9PQ==
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Z0FBQUFBQm9jNEs1WTI4ckRNUkxvQXdLTlo3YXJXTE9kMG5MalRsOUlYUUtFOHBjeU1HdTVuQUlzdzZ5dGxleU1IUlBGeGphWks3TWUtVXZvQmR3ODNXc3dFZjhqX0xfYjU0bDl4bkRNZldCV1dKRTktM1l3STVrdEk4YW90WFBUdFdtbjBLRGdNZmxvbEVsRGI3S3F0TW5hMzlsblR2ZkZsNEtlTzk3bUpMZkJIMWhtcjhwYms0QlRLYmJBcjdlWEVNcW5ra0Vad0FmTzNpRXFMT1BKYUJZalc3WmdtaGs5WldiUTF3ZFdWazhxMGdtVUE1bVJ2Yz0=
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Yeah it would be neat if we found some [spot in the brain](http://www.livescience.com/health/081224-brain-spirit.html) that pointed to God.
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r/christianity
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r/Christianity
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2009-04-24
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Z0FBQUFBQm9jNEtsRUxvRUJsVnJuNEZ3cGg0aGpLZjNTSVVOOXJsSExsaWU1ZnVwR0RBMmRmRllfdVFXZ0VudUZ0UDNQT0hOM19CTFZibWN5dXJfWmRVNGZtUmpNN3NBdGc9PQ==
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Z0FBQUFBQm9jNEs1SGdaaU15Rl9jLUNSaUh4R2hqWEhKcS1jY1VNV2J6bFF2RU5kWTZSb2NWZFVXbXI4cjU4bDktNUg2TEpSNE1ycWlmVEp2TlAyOVZpNGE2STV3RG1kT2c2amtrRlgyaGtIS2Q3bUcwV3pxcWxsVzY1QmZPaGRPOHJOcms3UnJwMFdnTl9HbVNZZkZsZ1dySGxjRUxBQmlIc0ZkYnM1c1hxZ0dDV2hreXZCaU9zV1B6OFpweklsOEQ1NFlVUU5lN3NpSC1NNjhPTVh5cUwtUTNWR3ZMMV91Zz09
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If it's there, why doesn't it always work?
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r/christianity
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comment
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r/Christianity
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2009-04-24
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Z0FBQUFBQm9jNEtsdjRGZUcxZ00xdkhaUDJkM190Z1gxUE9CUjZMbjgwSW5Hc203ZWdfVlRrMk5Kb0JiN09FdnFPUGhUZDVTMW9UR2VJc1FwcjZOSzNMNnpWS2ZOeFNCTmc9PQ==
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Z0FBQUFBQm9jNEs1OENPY1NuTWk3UXcwRXI3ZVJnSkN5Sks3dEUxUUs3OXFtRTl6ZEFLMXp5Z2RWZEltZUN4M3ZjOUw2dk44Qy01WEtIZFY5T1VUQ3dKekNVcVQzUGk2dFdOaXVLcHlRSTVBTGlGeXBGTkhWUi1BUXlYbjlSSnpKVDdGdEdJVGx0bFZMbjhIakYybHpFNEl2dUloUzZRNHJrSFRGQTlZNFgzMk1VVkIxMFR5STlZbnZwSjFmRFBvRmlkOERTdlFCeXg2M19TRVpsWHJoVWstQmhYeDBIUGdBUT09
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I know how to spell my name. Now I must smite you.
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r/christianity
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r/Christianity
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2009-04-24
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Z0FBQUFBQm9jNEtsVWV3X1ZQSFF1T0dGbTE4YVRoU1NNaDNscnBuazVLNTBlOTE3TjBzVkJfTFNWVFZQN3V1U0pTRm0zeEl6WUJxeEZRWUtCaDI3SEgzRGFSMlZ5RGJNanc9PQ==
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Z0FBQUFBQm9jNEs1TVB3elBKYU5EeWphQ0xPV0hiSnA2OGdmeG1yN2Z2NmxicEc5em56dnBvZjBSSFNwaHN1WkRvLXE0SXVhdGhpNnFxem1NY2dybnR3cVdjNV8wNEdiM1VDVjdvdVVJVEZtX2p3NGh6X3lLMmlHREZxcFFEVDZ2MjNGdE5QWWNBMnFCWkZoSGhuSzFfMUZyRWJrY0RqUF8zYTNRRC0yaGdaZlA2UjdnR0ZhNlB6S0E3aElwUzNYVmd0TV9LRS1GNDN2VkRTem5kTUFkcjIyVU8wWDJ4dHN2eVNobmF2bzNpVUozdDdvUl9JdlBkVT0=
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But Jesus also teaches you must hate.
What about the commandment:
“If anyone comes to me and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be my disciple”
(Luke 14:26)
>I'm interested in hearing where you find immorality in the Bible besides stories where God teaches morality thru immorality.
??
God teaches morality through his own immorality?
This is inherently immoral.
Answer me this.
Why did God even need a human blood sacrifice?
I know I can forgive someone without requiring someone innocent to be murdered.
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r/christianity
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r/Christianity
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2009-04-24
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Z0FBQUFBQm9jNEtsNXVtczMtSHpvUXZXNVNQeC03ejF2NTJrbjhnRXFuNHRoRXVFYWRjaXk0ZGJhY085b2tiMXR3WkhLVXBPTlhXOG5ILXpVNTYwN0stYzJ4ZkJEQXpVUHc9PQ==
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Z0FBQUFBQm9jNEs1eG1kNDBUeTdDbGlydHA1UjdMUzQzekNyUUNkUG1MZnpLUjRqLWtQckFrM0VxYnpiUlFSVDlidXFzOTlBaHBwbGFFcDZnR3lLRFA2OEJyVzNIMEt2NG9oVzNUME9JMVlsT21iZVB3UDZtQ1o4VVpkdm5SbTlzcl9RaW5QWEY3VGZJNEh0ajRhMk14ek5NZUlrLWVxdEx2bE11cWVPa0FLa1k1OVQtYmQwV1lQb2ZKSmFoSkVZOWpOWF9NUHhfb3VCcVg1LVhwRFRaYlduaTg4T0VOZUV1QT09
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Just like anyone else....that's not so hard to imagine.
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r/christianity
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r/Christianity
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2009-04-25
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Z0FBQUFBQm9jNEtsenBYUGxnWXhTTW5GZkUwS3JFOERJOFRsQi1iT0lVRjNaQkxiYlBQOU1fcVZvdXpCdVROTmtuVUVaaTZBNjFRVVpBdWZodDI5cFNQT2R2QlRjMnhjWnc9PQ==
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Z0FBQUFBQm9jNEs1ZndFQktnS1dQdjd0dm1pcUVmT3hlaW5Fak9wb2ptVFZoYnNTQWtEdVBia1Yya2F5WlRjbEUtN0xWUml4UmxHY1YwQmVBZkdDYW02VHppU3JBdFR4eWQyZGFSYlNqQjB5RTJtcFFvbzBZcnlRT3JLcjV0bnVnMzRaRkxLOFRpeEhKa1RlcTU1TEhSLWZ1S25oV2ZRSVVGYmgycG8xM2t5MEgzaWlOdnFZSGJFM1J0cmtHQVZ6SnRQOTNUWnlOWUVWUjlSbEhpUml3LVV2OXk0dm1CTm9KQT09
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Evidence that stands up to critical thinking and skepticism. Evidence that doesn't is not really evidence, as skeptics see it. It's conjecture, hearsay, testimonial, but not good solid, verifiable, rational evidence.
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r/christianity
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r/Christianity
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2009-04-25
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Z0FBQUFBQm9jNEtsV3JPS1htbkowWGdwSlJuN2k0cFhYYmxBWWY1ZGVndExmMEFLSGZzWkdMRGw3RWRENTI3ZXhQZ2huRzk4MUMtNG9kaTc0cWk3VGZ1a1ppMWtVcFdGWnc9PQ==
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Z0FBQUFBQm9jNEs1MUIyeE9TdlI2eFVndS1Na192eG9tUmZRMWE0bUMzVnhJcGJlMjctLW9uV0UwYTBfd2VuV2xoa09ldVE2VDZwVU5yX3hySmt4ZUdBNzJzN1BLSmNlcTBtczk4UEdsYmR1VjNRSm9uYUJESFRwYXlFemxYcU1rNDNWWXU5eFhyTk5nVlhFb2ZiWXV2VUJDc0JtenpocmpBSG4tWXVtb1hrRGhYUU5lOW5RMmlha0EwQV9mM3RhX2M4UDA2NERFMkNLM1JwM2tpcXdsWWxma09URUNiOFFCdz09
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wow thanks for pointing that out. I had no idea who that jerk was!
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r/christianity
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r/Christianity
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2009-04-25
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Z0FBQUFBQm9jNEtsV0xlVXoxaHUtMFVRTnhSRDdOeFQxS1pNYWE5N1VyMWRKMTBpWG1nMDlZdTAtczNaZF9oZVVPb3kxbnhKOXFwa3k0ME9xbGV4eUZVbWxoVDd3dUtjalE9PQ==
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Z0FBQUFBQm9jNEs1VHlSM05HV1RnLU8xVXRDY3R3a1BGcHJBWmQyZGppM3puVDVqOTcyZ2RuSF84eTU1OUxkR0hsWWFFRHhwYzNkTDc1UFNOVWljYkI2eHpqWTNLM05YV1U1bFhHVGdWWFl4X2VEU3RJZjhiSnhyWDhORklDS3VZSW54dEotOGR0NVEyT0FfMU4xSlFtZ0VOblQtVFZtTW9ObGQ1YURldXJUZE01dHV6X2ZiMDNPSnRzNnVMZkFrUmpQUTJRTzB3X3J2NW43clNueklaaDJYaW5lOFVMZWRSQT09
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I can't imagine not imaging things!
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r/christianity
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r/Christianity
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2009-04-25
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Z0FBQUFBQm9jNEtsS0V4MVltck95dGFZcFFqR1ZNeHVkT0doeVJfM0xkM0JvTEN3U3NwMDktVkFKdUVKUzBuWU1jRF9MNVhTaGtHNVJmQjNOcUJGN3FrR213anlJTGNmV3c9PQ==
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Z0FBQUFBQm9jNEs1SVZqdWZEMHo5Q0hvdFNndTh1RTJiclNMVEFYd2tmMzVndlNyNXJrZk45Z0tKUDEtVjRaejV2aWctR1B5amZxTHluX21lSVNFU3hvYkpOZTJnZ0Y3N2E3WTY3aTBTX3lpZkRCd0R6WFZYQVh6YmVicnEzMWlOZFBUMy02UVUzT1E4bFNmNzBjMVE5UTZqRjFRR2tYSTNMaDV1RmlXNDFaZWxBcm5LUDhPZFV5UFZHYUVlRVBUM0lvRFlZU3VOdHdIZzZoa1VDUGg0eWJpQmR0RDBkdEZHZz09
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not ixid, enthalpyx did.
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r/christianity
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r/Christianity
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2009-04-25
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Z0FBQUFBQm9jNEtsSElnT2xYclRwdWg2Q0M2a2F6UXRoaUVuMjhSalJJbVY5XzhoMk9FbF9pMHAtNnRVajZDRFpNbTNMSkc3elFwYTE2Vmp4ejdibWp2LWlyazliaWFXS0E9PQ==
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Z0FBQUFBQm9jNEs1TXVTd0c2UVNtRkZpWVlETmp0MlF4SFpablppbVctcVFFSG1kQVhFQ0VxdGtBYlFhcDR5MmdMWnVnOHozOEZtdFBNVV84ZWJmWllxZWhZSVE0azJ1eXZ4ZGxRRGFVSHRXQXRGZzIyN1oyZ0RIeTdGUUpWVFBlZEkxT3hrd2hXTU1mdjhPN2xIcEpvMEpTNEtsLUV5S1lVbE9FeHVXREVfcjdnUmtjZk40R2VNb0JqWmptdU1ad1dOX3p1eWlDVEFVaXplLVB0aW1Lckx2a3J5ZTlaY2dfdz09
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Having read the original post, I'm not sure that "open minded" or "dismissive" mean what you think they mean. Your serious question was answered eight ways to Sunday in your original post, and with a lot more civility than you're demonstrating here. What are you complaining about?
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r/christianity
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comment
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r/Christianity
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2009-04-26
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Z0FBQUFBQm9jNEtsWXFNaUltM3VuNVY3TXpGOVJzVmk1QWxUR1FpRzZycUZMLXg1UFdocTlFejkyYmttN1Z0cnA1cWZSemhjM3BxUmo4MTNEVTNqTFkwS3VTS1hUV3RPeXc9PQ==
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Z0FBQUFBQm9jNEs1ZkZqbXNQYkhtNG9BN21iV3QtZWlVZTk0ZUVYelZ5amM5YXNVT0J4OUhjWVl6TnpBNDZPV0JyVDdpY2NKeGMxR3hJempKWkpHNmd5NDllcVNTMUVkN1IxbmJaU2Z0N2dWRWZ6ckhDanp6d2I1X1ZQdVZHQVZlWDRrNTBaaU9jaG5pNER3V1dORDlfYU9uQ3RJZUg3RUdWMk9lcjMzaUVfeDJpQ21ES3E3RUZRbXAtQTJDQ3FpbHJ3RU1pd1pWVDFQSDBZYnFoTFR4anBFeGQ1djRqS3dGdz09
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Your immediate flesh and blood family are God's main competitors for your loyalty. Since we all still come short of the glory of God and because many in our carnal family are not saved, these are the people that are most likely to pressure you to compromise your faith. They are also the people who are most likely to conspire to sin with you rather than to expose or correct you. In fact, some members of your carnal family are so obviously unspiritual and otherwise unpleasant, that if you were not stuck with them you WOULD avoid them altogether. Hate for sin is required to be a disciple of Christ's. Sin is in all of us.
(Mat 10:36 KJV) And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.
(Mat 10:37 KJV) He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple. (Luke 14:33 KJV)......"
Hate in this context tells us that we should hate this world in comparison to the perfect world God has in store for those who accept Christ. God is the true father and you must choose Him rather than man.
Romans 6:23 tells us that the wages of sin is death. We all deserve death because we fall short of God's approval. After many years of temple sacrifice, Christ became the sacrifice for our sins. He died for the sins of everyone who would accept him therefore nullifying the temple sacrifices.
Without the shedding of blood there is no remission Hebrews 9:22
More than anything it was symbolic of what was to come and it was never a human sacrifice. God tested Abraham only to verify his obidence, he never harmed Issac.
God states all the First Fruits are His. Your first tenth of your best crop, your best sheep, your best animals were sacrificed to God in gratitude to His kindness for giving us what we need. God, being the creator of all things including morals and law, chose to dictate that the wages of sin was death, and chose that sin required a perfect blood sacrifice. All I can say to that is, who am I to question what God has decided.
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r/christianity
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comment
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r/Christianity
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2009-04-27
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Z0FBQUFBQm9jNEtsSkQ4cDYwbEQ1QWZQMWNwSGhuVFdRNHNNSFNpcDF0THBSdTRRRXFMbE9IdVpqX0NWbmd6UFdvOHVQZVQwQnRYVDYyM0pOdlpXMWJ3UVdPaVpESWI1WVE9PQ==
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Z0FBQUFBQm9jNEs1RzYzUDI4bkFRZ1lfeEJQYmFzVXZKMDZOcDNaTV9KU1FKdW05ZjNhVmliUWVGcERiYXVLb3dSZ0Zldy1GdDRuQldCamlqdlRQWEdfQmYydnVzWmNQMzkxWTk5SnJfNmQyM1YwQi1TcWVPLV9FYUpIb3draVFfTDNfSFBidk9QZDVUdHhtSjFNLURDUHFUbXVDc0Ftb2lCM0trZFk5anhFNmp0UDdZNG1aazVlWHJ0bGNrV2ZKQW45T3lRZEMwQk5SNjJINV9oZVRfcVppR3ZyejcwTm1oUT09
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>Your immediate flesh and blood family are God's main competitors for your loyalty.
So you are saying that loving your family angers God?
>Hate in this context tells us that we should hate this world in comparison to the perfect world God has in store for those who accept Christ.
No. Nowhere in any context or any parallel verses does it say anything of the kind.
>We all deserve death because we fall short of God's approval.
Ahh according to you God made us. This would mean he created us imperfect and was displeased with his own creation.
>All I can say to that is, who am I to question what God has decided.
You are a person with your own brain who is allowed to question the existence of a mythological being.
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r/christianity
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comment
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r/Christianity
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2009-04-27
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Z0FBQUFBQm9jNEtsejYtR3VzOUluenJuWmJBOEVpX19FNjAyUTJMMmt3Z0l0d3JLdlJzeF9GSkxrUldIWVItRmxxdE5wWlpoU2c3NXF3NHBnR3RQRTdjaUxTejVTNm91d0E9PQ==
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Z0FBQUFBQm9jNEs1Ukt0ZHV0RjZRVjZIRXlJV3lJaGpGeVYtLTRubi1HVnJoNmdsaks0eFlDYXZ3OW9hMkQ1VTlhckFlUU9LZHlVbVNLVXYyOXdZRDVIVUF0NF9mQmFkMVp1QXc3cWlLcE8xOWxjdGdvWXl1UGI1OUhEQ0dXaXQ1WHlPZncwMHl3ZU1LTG5SOGZzSzZZRzhoVWpud0pFU0U2M0FkZTh0UUJqWFpPQk9wdjJ2WXhvT0dEVFdadElDb2NYczUybks2eXpJV0F1Y29MakYtaU1DNkt2YWU0OHY2Zz09
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You do realize that you're pretty much making up most of what you said there, as much of it's not even in the Bible, right?
For example:
> He's not God because He possesses power, He's God because He exists independent of this (or any, if you believe in multiple) universe.
First of all, how do you know that if God exists, he has to exist independently of the universe? The Bible says nothing about God not being contained within the universe, nor does it address whether or not he would be the god of *all* the universes in a multiverse. Who's to say that each universe doesn't have it's own individual god?
You just make a string of conjectures that you can't back up with anything, and act like you've proven something. You say that there can't be such a thing as an evil god, but your 'reasoning' behind it is essentially "God isn't evil, therefore God can't be evil". You don't really think you said anything there though do you?
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r/christianity
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comment
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r/Christianity
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2009-04-28
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Z0FBQUFBQm9jNEtsd2lMU3VWb0NkNW5FTG5lNHBCU3JmZmtjeHN2TkdacE5pelVOVHI5OFdLSmo1cHpqQTRsX2VOYnhYNlpkNGlNZlpFM3lNSkd6U3ZTZWYydTlNd2tHVUE9PQ==
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Z0FBQUFBQm9jNEs1TEVqemVMNlRhSFp6RXpWcWlHdGhkRzhmaFI3WHZFdTFsdEV2RFFxaU8zVE5WMERWdkxSWHBaUnU0TGdsTFd6Slp3YVVRb2xFYTdnZGZhbVlqMFlTNlBVZXR0MTJiLTJxV3g0WjNzOW0wb0JLb09FYnMzc3RDWGdyWDN2cUJZXzM4V1JrZ2dUVXR2UnBoUEUzTWR3YjZaWGEwVUZHckRaLW9xRzAza3dQeks0SWl3U0Utd29pelZzd2FuWHp0YkRTbUVJNGxFdFkxQlRESmhUQWtKTHVmZz09
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You can't reason with the unreasonable. Faith is the gentle term for unreasonable.
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r/christianity
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comment
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r/Christianity
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2009-04-28
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Z0FBQUFBQm9jNEtsQzBsM2YxSXZhRFZXS0Y4Z2t5U3hXVmh0dGxzdGNkeFJVNE5BWjBhd2xVUHJ0bDNXTDItN0o0THJxNDk4UWdMeFhDek5sWXFZeFA3Z2IwSGd0TElqTWc9PQ==
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Z0FBQUFBQm9jNEs1NVNrcmRmX0FzWWpnNl84MDRZM1hDeVctSTM1b2V1YVNWdW0tMnl3alZQb3pUaGVwYnZzNWJDVVBuVl80cFBGZ3MydFpvTThIQXRVMTFuR3huemt5X0hpMUpRVWlvVEtBQldXUFpRVjhVTTZVS0FiUVZHUzJKSTZLUFppOVlmYk12VTJuNW9WNnpGR0ZKVDVucE5IeEJpNjZUWTRnUmI0R0xDOWpPMmgyX0lNQS1FQllPcWlkLTJDaW8zclBOdXVCUDhUY0d0RXVmbEJrS3VFZkc2Yjg1QT09
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moral of course...as u can see everything here that u see and happening has a natural design.and its magnificent to know that everything goes according to His design and a deviation from it results to catastrophic and only to nuisance ...anyway...im heading SG... http://sg.88db.com/sg/Services/Post_Detail.page/Automotive/Cars_for_Rental/?PostID=798745 il just rent a car wen i get there
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r/christianity
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comment
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r/Christianity
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2009-04-28
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Z0FBQUFBQm9jNEtsbzdPWlpPOWhCYmQ0RXlJMWFsRy0zbUptQzhQekpxQzJwM0c0Tm1XOS1oemtidkttcDU3bTdrN1pGU2dJVzl3a05iclptWHVXRDBTNF9YaGstOVFuMEE9PQ==
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Z0FBQUFBQm9jNEs1dTB6M2QwVXZvSnlURUprYmhPZ2FQU3lUaks5ZlNqUlVuVkMzekFuanFLQ0swRm5RVFFwYVJBTWpCdFN2RWhxdkItNWh2X3M3clhKaDZEN3dlMlJSVTg4OXFRWVVpSFQtOWM4d1NfWWNXS09HNW9yUW1yR1FhNEdDZjFCUnhlOGZZZlNhdGN4M0FUWXE2QUd2aXMzUkJOejhFeEJYaFFITThCV1dLMm5KUU9WQTRSY0JYbjBCZmczMWt6NXdydF9qaDRBNk40ZWI2aXIzNzg5XzdMNlN2QT09
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That's why I dumped the idea of substitutional atonement - which, by the way, is not from the Bible but from Anselm (and was soon after rejected by Abelard, who held up Jesus as an exemplar, not a blood atonement, and who was still considered Christian). Unfortunately, it's been so popular that most English translations remove the ambiguity in the Greek to more or less concretize this view.
Early Christians really didn't know what to make of the whole thing, as they disagreed a lot, but they more or less followed some form of Christus Victor, not subsitutional atonement. Perhaps the strongest suggestions for it can be seen in Hebrews, but even that reads differently if you read it in terms of Plato.
I understand Jesus's death as inevitable, but not necessary, and certainly not mandated by God. Of course, I also have various less-orthodox views about omniscience & ominipotence as well. But I'm not alone.
(BTW, if we prooftext Luke 14:26 to justify hate in the common understanding, then I think we would be making claims that Jesus is advocating suicide, which the early church certainly did not condone. The Greek Lexicon BDAG says that the English translation of 'hate' has an affective component that the Greek does not have. It offers as an alternate: "to be disinclined to, disfavor, disregard in contrast to preferential treatment".)
I think God is moral, to answer the question, because I think God is self-giving Love. Anything that is not Love (even what some mistakenly call justice) is not of God, regardless of what various witnesses claim.
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r/christianity
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comment
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r/Christianity
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2009-04-28
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Z0FBQUFBQm9jNEtsUGlmOGswUEszTnJGMTRSNHBaYlhnZXB2ZHNBN3pzYjh0Y2lPNHlJQmstdGdGQVpkQXAtMHVnUmpDdl80QWpNTnVoNGUtWjFqZkc3X3BVSlZVYmx3NXc9PQ==
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Z0FBQUFBQm9jNEs1cmFuRG51UFd6alU2VkVqbWNaZ3FwZTVxMzYzM0ttNjdEalBueldIX0o3Uno5bFc1eXNRd1JLNkVHcWZZR2MxelRuS0dfeW5DQ2Jtc2xLcTlNSk0yUk44WFZ0MlNRR21SOW14M0FPTFd3Y0dsME1YSmhZc3MySDYwQjU2ZnJrS1dPYWRaOHJRMHFVeFcyaGx2ekVFUmtXR0o4Mmg1NGY4R3pJaTc2ODk0SzRJaWZ2WlJCVW81ektMWmNwdXZ4MWZpalVGQWZmaGpxUmdsdVc4cnF6TkRlUT09
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Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the Heavens and the Earth.
Isaiah 44:24 This is what the Lord, your protector, says, the one who formed you in the womb: “I am the Lord, who made everything, who alone stretched out the sky, who fashioned the earth all by myself...."
John 1:1-3 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was fully God. The Word was with God in the beginning. All things were created by him, and apart from him not one thing was created that has been created.
The simple truth is that God created everything ... including you and me. If he created everything, then He must exist independent of that creation.
As far as the concept of God of all the universes ... note that the Bible states that God created EVERYTHING ("apart from Him not one thing was created that had been created"). Therefore, IF multiverses exist, God created them.
There are no "conjectures" in my statement. You might disagree with what the Bible says, but you cannot argue that what I've said isn't supported by the Bible.
As far as proving something, I'm not "acting" like anything. I merely stated the orthodox theological position regarding God and the concept of morality. God IS good. God IS love. God IS holiness. And so on. To say that God could be anything else is to say that He could be something He's not. The very notion of God being amoral or immoral reflects a weak and wrong understanding of God.
Might as well ask is liquid water dry or wet? It's not that water is wet, that view misses the point that "wetness" is, by virtue of the most basic definition and understanding, something being saturated with water. In other words, water equals wet. God equals morality.
We know this because of what God has revealed in His Word - the inscripturated word (Bible) and the incarnate word (Jesus Christ). How you choose to respond to that revelation is up to you.
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r/christianity
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comment
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r/Christianity
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2009-04-28
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Z0FBQUFBQm9jNEtsZGxpV1M0ZTFWOW5lUmlDTU1ZRHJJcE9udmk3cXRKaFdWVVFJckJBVW1LeXhuWm5HYUdid1ByOGJfUmZBZWJZTm5ZWk8wSFdHVjJscWFSd21IMjZFSFE9PQ==
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Z0FBQUFBQm9jNEs1N3NKcWthcHItZWdyN19kVHpxVkpoMmhORXMwaEFfaThUYlBVeUcxUlM1N2daZU45XzhYVkNPakZLRDNXOEh0NTVHS0tDRG9XdEFHeGdlYVdlcnY2V3V2U25BWUlFRWk2bnNVXzhITVJSandJbmVDYVBKemhkWlA0WGhoN1EtdWQwNElTTXozNnF6RDc0S2VlZHpQMDZqaEJFUG1FLWEtWU5JNjRibVNLV0xnU1JwdFJYRFN5UWMxM0pFaV9zMkZLN3hZTUxYNzVKZ1pmMndrMUlnNm8wQT09
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That's exactly how cults work.
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r/christianity
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comment
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r/Christianity
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2009-04-28
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Z0FBQUFBQm9jNEtsaXhsaHBUNnlfUmVObUpnWEdZd2NIc0UycmIzVDlrNmI4VWlLbFM1T2ZwVV9wNUZBZDBrX1hmYndHUmYwdFJZTC1CazVGVWhnMnVqekFhcDNtTHhFbWc9PQ==
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Z0FBQUFBQm9jNEs1QnV1bVVZdjducWhlXy1pRlpFZlJOMDRBOW8yejNSejg5dzJGZnlCNUNWbXFpRGp1Rlc2WVEwanY0QlFHLUlScl9YZ3lrd2hFdTZtWmFPcmZGX3R2YWRlT041WnhXaTAzeEp3WUdjakNRZFdsWVYyWHF2SVNBY1VvS2hBMDNKNDVRal9GYmlPSkFtM3BwbEM5WHhOZU5HS1lKdTZ1bEJkc0E1aVVISnRZZHE5bWY0NGlCc2txNGxSb083dzdGcWU4a2J5d2ZnT25zSm5teVRBNWhUTk1TUT09
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That's exactly how Faith works..
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r/christianity
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comment
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r/Christianity
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2009-04-28
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Z0FBQUFBQm9jNEtsM0tIU0NpTGZEaExacTRTNDZINVJ2VEEtaEdpNXhLVGpKNVdYT0NlX1R2SFBMX0NLVnlZUmhBeFZ4ZVJram91RGNLZ3NPZVVWTGI4YWdpTEJHTDBiMnc9PQ==
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Z0FBQUFBQm9jNEs1VVdZNkxhRUtFSHB2aEhWUXAwbm9EbG9lYzZZQjJfQkFpRmRUdDVsUDRveDNJQ2dKOGdGQzNrd3p2ZTVfd0x1d21DLWNRejkyd0dSc3pvdWVWcXR6ZzFoVTJ4NnNJaGhCXy1fWF9NRFJobW1RYzRtVDNWRkpLWnMtOW5vTnFBdzRGbml0RWhOR2w0aWlxZGRMWDJkME1vN2dEOEJoeHhCbTZ0OWdONUxIM1lUVXhMRTJFeUtWTVB3azVIVWFaWWNmQ3lfUTl4ZTZaZGNwV2F3alc2NmxGZz09
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Exactly.
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r/christianity
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comment
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r/Christianity
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2009-04-28
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Z0FBQUFBQm9jNEtsWk1ZUFFLeDFuMElUSUd0RE9qLW1kXzZqaWQzSlQyQzhDUUVLaU1rU3hQbUxqQ2w3by1tc1RONDhTMUFJN2RtWGF5T3FEZXZjUVpyRXRRUVo0UkE4amc9PQ==
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Z0FBQUFBQm9jNEs1LUlRM0NCSDYyN3p4c2s2WFVuMzJNbkgyNVgwS2hEZFlHM00zbXB0cVBEZEtJaXVQbE1DNXQxMXpsd25vT3JmbUxhU3VoMFBrdEpBRENta1RGMEpaLS1ZNmJOWlVnNWozTDZodWlGcHRocW5HLU92ZUZkaVd0UFZ3N2c4ZXdqbHFGcFc2SjJrMHhsblloczdoblk0TjVPUFBxeGJLeklXNXdJVy1LQjNjMzJCQU5NMUNOUS1rbGZVaERYMzFOVWZ3TkE0WjhnT2F0bXp0LWlTMXJ6Ul8wQT09
|
Who are you to assume that god exists in the first place? Who are you to concluded that your god is real and that everyone else's god is fake? Who are you to claim to know of the existence of an infinite being, given your limited mind and perspective?
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r/christianity
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comment
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r/Christianity
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2009-04-28
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Z0FBQUFBQm9jNEtsWGdiQkhjalU0Rk9rV2JzOWt4M1hPXzdRdC1QZXl0WEVmdUk3NjJIMEFzNTZIQl96UEZVZ0VlbDNLcGhHa0F0b1NKZG5Fd2lES1F3MWFPUmNDZWlMZGc9PQ==
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Z0FBQUFBQm9jNEs1QWlNeHFyaGZmaW9RcGkxa3MyckMyVGI4MVNuNlBleHBqVDFDX2dPS0hnQ0t6TGFKeHlkM1BhUE9jTHI1TnJnNFJhMm8wekZtR3A1NmxFaGtZWkpYd015MUlxRW94ZVp6VDhfeklNZzlrNGxrUDVJOFBKcHRGU1lnYmJJd21sSnB0cjl1V2ItdlRDT1kwUUNUMWJZSDhsTmdfSWtNNTdvUDlMVklUYUd4dWNqLXNPWUFQX19ZUmJ6YzNtbmdKTXhwYzZvTzc3akgzUVJRa3BoYnNESDF2dz09
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