For those who are workaholics and work 70-80 hour weeks: How do you make your personal relationships work?
Like most of you know, for anyone to be the best in investment sales, you have to make this career your life and make difficult sacrifices in other parts of life. I've had 2 co-workers that had to quit the team because their spouses could not deal with the long hours and I'm trying not to have to be in a position where I have to choose between my career which I love and my relationship. I have accomplished so much already, I've only been in this business for 6 months and I can't afford any distractions -am I just better off being single if my partner doesn't respect how hard I'm working or is that too much to expect from someone? I'm not sure if I'm just expecting too much or am I in the wrong for letting my job consume me and should I do a better job of separating work from home
[{"id": "iv90n1a", "text": "I\u2019m single lol", "replies": [{"id": "ivcsqdg", "text": "same", "replies": [], "depth": 2}], "depth": 1}, {"id": "iv915yk", "text": "What I\u2019ve learned as I got older is work will always be there but the people you love will not. Open communication is important and needs to be known there is an end in sight. Setting specific days for each other helps as well. I did it for big periods of time until we hit a very nice financial independence number and now I\u2019m backing off of those hours.\n\nYou also need to consider does it really need to be 70-80 hours. More hours does not equate to more done or better outcomes. Taking breaks and spending time with others you\u2019ll never get that back. I don\u2019t regret a few years of long grinds to get to where I got. Until you are in a position to stop doing those gruelling hours and start delagating. I had to practice letting someone else do a portion of my work even though they didn\u2019t do it perfectly or better than me. It also sounds like you\u2019d be willing to walk away from your partner? Lots to think about on your end but don\u2019t give up love if you love someone.", "replies": [{"id": "iv93hcv", "text": "I'm having more success than I thought which even compounds the amount of work I have to do even more - I honestly feel over my head but I guess it's better than not being busy at all. This is prime hunting season that will set the foundation of a healthy and full pipeline for next year and if I'm not working 70-80 hours then my competition will be. I'm already at a disadvantage for being new in the industry, I have to out work everyone to set myself apart and I'm at the young age where I can work my ass off with no wife and kids yet. Thank you for the advice though it's giving me alot to think about", "replies": [{"id": "ivb4rnb", "text": "Got to learn to delegate work or train others to do time consuming tasks. Effective delegation allows the work to get done (to out compete) but frees you up to enjoy life outside of it. If you feel like you can\u2019t delegate things, well, you may be a micro manager. That is a whole other conversation.", "replies": [{"id": "ivb68pv", "text": "How am I supposed to delegate tasks to other people when I'm basically brand new in the industry? I'm the one who people delegate their tasks to lmao", "replies": [{"id": "ivlqr6p", "text": "M&amp;M advocates hiring a junior when you\u2019re about ~2 years in before promoting to Senior Associate, if you\u2019ve closed a decent amount early in your career you can explore this route", "replies": [], "depth": 5}], "depth": 4}], "depth": 3}], "depth": 2}], "depth": 1}, {"id": "iv91780", "text": "Work when they sleep", "replies": [], "depth": 1}, {"id": "iv9445r", "text": "Only losers work 80 hours a week, you know that you\u2019re going to die one day right?", "replies": [{"id": "iv96b86", "text": "I'm okay with that at least I'll die rich and my kids, grand kids, great grand kids will be set up for life.  Work is a privilege and I'm gonna make the most of the opportunity even it is costs me some fun in life", "replies": [{"id": "iv96mqq", "text": "Maybe, or maybe you\u2019ll piss away the best years of your life. Your future isn\u2019t guaranteed, and working 80 hours a week is a pretty great way to insure some pretty terrible health outcomes. I know plenty of very successful brokers and agents working far more sane hours.", "replies": [], "depth": 3}, {"id": "iv9vnov", "text": "Putting in more hours does not mean you will be rich. Also rich is having high income, wealth is actually keeping it for generations. You think wealthy people work 80+/week.", "replies": [], "depth": 3}, {"id": "iva3531", "text": "Ignore the downvotes. \n\nWhen you\u2019re debating on if you should wrap your Porsche around the light posts on the freeway because your wife divorced you and your kids only call you maybe once every two or three months, im sure you\u2019ll be thinking, \u201cMan, I did it right\u201d.", "replies": [], "depth": 3}], "depth": 2}, {"id": "ivanrtt", "text": "It amazes me how many people want to be the richest person in the grave. Who gives a shit.", "replies": [], "depth": 2}], "depth": 1}, {"id": "iv9450t", "text": "How old are you?  And how committed are you to your current partner?\n\nI'm 36, and am married with two kids.  I work in a space thats CRE adjacent (develop onsite solar and battery across Africa, particularly deal structuring).  Its consuming, but with delegation and leaning heavily on tech and automating the non relationship aspects of the work, 80 hrs turns into 40-50.  And my desire to spend time with my wife and kids played a massive role in figuring out the how of accomolishing that.", "replies": [{"id": "iv96o2o", "text": "I am 27 and I've been in this relationship since 19, but no where close to the married stage. I wish there was a way to limit my hours and still produce the same amount but it's not possible for me right now. Obviously the hope is by working this much now will allow me to retire early and commit less hours down the road", "replies": [{"id": "iv9rxmr", "text": "8 years into the relationship and no where near close to married?", "replies": [{"id": "iv9vt9n", "text": "Seriously.  Imagine being his partner and hearing after EIGHT years they\u2019re still no where close to the married stage.  OP sounds like an asshole.", "replies": [{"id": "ivaip02", "text": "Lmao sure just because neither of us need a ring or marriage to validate a relationship makes me an asshole,  she doesn't want it as much as I do because we are just starting our careers. It's called not wanting to have a family until you're financially able to support them", "replies": [{"id": "ivartf8", "text": "Not gonna lie, I don\u2019t think it\u2019s just the hours deteriorating your relationship lol. There\u2019s definitely other underlying issues", "replies": [], "depth": 6}, {"id": "ivbnfy9", "text": "I just had my second kid at 47. Your kids don't want money, and you don't need to have a lot of money to be a great dad. Most of the richest dads have the worst relationships with their kids and their kids often have lifelong issues.\n\nYour kids want a dad who is present and engaged and caring and there every day. They also want someone who's going to be around. My major regret is that I waited to have kids. I wish to God I'd had them 20 years ago, so I could have 20 more years with them a d.ao that I'd have a shot at being a grandparent.\n\nStop grinding and get some therapy.", "replies": [{"id": "ivbqvqo", "text": "So that means that I should hate my dad because he wasn't as present as he could be in my childhood? Hell no, even though my dad couldn't be there for me as much, I respect the hell out of him for getting to where he is today when he came to this country with nothing but the shoes on his feet and it was inspiring to see how hard he worked. I respect your opinion but I respectfully say that just because my motivation in life is different from yours doesn't mean I need therapy", "replies": [{"id": "ivckle2", "text": "Dude, take it from a guy who's had a lot of therapy, and who wishes he'd started a lot earlier. This whole thread is one giant cry for help. You need therapy. But pretty much everyone on the planet does, so there's no shame in that.", "replies": [], "depth": 8}], "depth": 7}], "depth": 6}, {"id": "ivd2xuw", "text": "But it sounds like you\u2019re ready, willing and able to leave her based on some opinions from strangers on the internet. \n\nSounds like you should both be looking for some type of relationship validation. \n\nLook, I\u2019ve broken it off with many women to focus on my brokerage business. It\u2019s all fine and dandy when you\u2019re so busy you\u2019re consistently distracted, but when life gets hard and you have no one to comfort you, you won\u2019t be so certain about your decision to fly solo. \n\nThe better alternative is to find someone that will balance you and to pick you up when you fall, and support your work ethic. Your \u201c70 - 80 hour weeks\u201d are not going to last, you will get burnt out, but a supporting a loving relationship can last a lifetime.", "replies": [], "depth": 6}], "depth": 5}], "depth": 4}], "depth": 3}, {"id": "ivc5wx3", "text": "Given your response, you should probably just be honest with your gf and yourself about where she stands and just break up.\n\nYou certainly sound far more passionate about your work than your gf, and there's no shame in that.", "replies": [], "depth": 3}], "depth": 2}], "depth": 1}, {"id": "iv9n5ph", "text": "Do whatever makes you happy. But the biggest deal I\u2019ve ever closed never brought me more joy than even mundane times with my kids.", "replies": [], "depth": 1}, {"id": "iv9sffq", "text": "I certainly believe it takes hard work to be successful but I feel those who work that much lack some sort of efficiency or waste a lot of time on things that aren\u2019t super effective. \n\nOn a side note I saw the comment where you said you are 8 years into a relationship but not close to marriage. Maybe you are not with the right person?", "replies": [{"id": "ivai162", "text": "Thats why I thought of just staying single until I find someone who has the same high career aspirations for themselves and understands the grind, but wasn't sure if that is just a fairy tale", "replies": [{"id": "ivalve0", "text": "How do you expect to find this person if you\u2019re both working 80 hours?", "replies": [], "depth": 3}, {"id": "ivawx4a", "text": "High aspirations doesn\u2019t mean you need to work 80 hours a week constantly. Sure it may mean that at times but don\u2019t forgot to build the life you want around it. Otherwise you will wake up with a boat load of money but no one to share your life with. It\u2019s about finding balance. Some periods require sacrifice in your work for the good of your family and other times require giving some time with family up to move your work forward.", "replies": [], "depth": 3}], "depth": 2}], "depth": 1}, {"id": "iv9uhmi", "text": "Nobody actually works 70-80 hours and even if they log that amount of time it's rarely productive.\n\nWhat you're likely referring to is, those people who are always on at all times. It's unhealthy not to set boundaries, especially in private sector work when 90% of the time you're not ever really doing anything more than family time.", "replies": [], "depth": 1}, {"id": "iv9v9xg", "text": "This is general work trajectory I\u2019ve noticed from most grinders, including myself\u2026 Move to big city, for me it was NY, grind until your family life deteriorates, leave for work before kids and wife wake up, get home after they\u2019re asleep. No time for social life, only alcohol. Do that for like, a few years. Economy grinds to a halt, wife says marriage not working, kids don\u2019t know you, now you\u2019re an alcoholic. Decide to quit job, move from city. Parent dies. Reevaluate life and importance of money. Go to rehab. Work on health - emotional and physical. Decide happiness and health is more important. Now 7 years sober. Have great kids and family life. For some unusual reason making more money than I ever have, even though I don\u2019t focus on it. Happy now. Don\u2019t \u201cneed\u201d money.\n\nGrind culture is bullshit. Focus on balance. You\u2019ll get to where you\u2019re going. Also, encourage you to think about what you need in a partner; do you want kids and stay at home spouse? Look for someone that enjoys/wants children. Want another grinder to build a business with; then don\u2019t ask them to raise your kids, you\u2019ll both be miserable. Think really hard about the qualities you want and need in a spouse.", "replies": [{"id": "ivav41l", "text": "This guy gets it.", "replies": [{"id": "ivcwjlx", "text": "Not really - he is an alcoholic without work/life balance who blames his issues on \u201cthe grind\u201d", "replies": [{"id": "ivd2p4y", "text": "Ah, it was both but you\u2019re right. Gotta take responsibility for my part in it.", "replies": [], "depth": 4}], "depth": 3}], "depth": 2}, {"id": "ivaz2fl", "text": "Thank you for this perspective and giving me more things to think about!", "replies": [{"id": "ivd2jxo", "text": "I live in Colorado now. There\u2019s so many of us reformed NY Finance and SF Tech drop-out bros out here it\u2019s practically a trope.", "replies": [], "depth": 3}], "depth": 2}, {"id": "ivbh58h", "text": "That is excellent advice, across the board.", "replies": [], "depth": 2}, {"id": "ivcgf22", "text": "Thank you for putting our lives in a better perspective.", "replies": [], "depth": 2}, {"id": "ivdlz7j", "text": "Congrats on 7 years!!!", "replies": [], "depth": 2}], "depth": 1}, {"id": "iv9vfu5", "text": "Work smarter not harder. Its not a badge of honor to spend more hours on something, in fact most of those people tend to be inefficient. I work 30 hrs per week on my main job and another 10-15 on my side investments and do just fine. I used to work a lot but a couple years ago I did an assessment on all the tasks I was doing and started to get rid of shit that was non-value add. Ridiculous meetings, tasks that did not reach my goal etc. I suggest you do the same. You cannot sustain those long hours forever. I do not mind putting in the occasional long week but not consistently, if I am i'm doing something wrong.", "replies": [{"id": "ivayn3o", "text": "Thank you I definitely need to improve on working smarter and more efficiently and not just the long hours. I'm the type of person that has a need to figure everything out asap/ get down the rabbit hole and which makes me spend more time on some things that I should", "replies": [], "depth": 2}], "depth": 1}, {"id": "iv9wlpz", "text": "I have worked close to that amount in small spurts, and my wife (doctor) just got done with residence averaged 60 hrs a week, and worked 80 hrs a week for months at a time in residency.  \n\nMy experience is my wife couldn\u2019t function personally.  I mean, she couldn\u2019t handle the day to day parts of life without help.  Good food went bad in the fridge, house was dirty, car maintance went bad.  She had one day off, and those days were used for sleeping and chores, and she was so tired chores wouldn\u2019t get done.  \n\nIt is possible, if you have help, buts it\u2019s really hard to manage single.  All the things in your life you need to manage fall behind.  I\u2019m not even talking about extra stuff, literally normal stuff like doing taxes, car registration, all the stuff you have to do to be a functioning adult that isn\u2019t work related falls behind.", "replies": [{"id": "ivay1un", "text": "Thank you for the insight and I completely agree, I could not sustain this workload without her handling things at home", "replies": [], "depth": 2}, {"id": "ivcvaab", "text": "Have been there and close to it now... You're not wrong", "replies": [], "depth": 2}], "depth": 1}, {"id": "iv9x4b3", "text": "Don\u2019t pick work over your partner. A good job is easier to find than a good partner. Also, that job don\u2019t care about you at all. They only care about what you can give them. God forbid but you pass tomorrow, they will have your replacement in your seat by weeks end.", "replies": [], "depth": 1}, {"id": "iva3mub", "text": "Personally I need to have a partner to come home to so I can work 70-80 hours a week. When I\u2019ve been single working those hours, things were not easy. Consider yourself doing this for several more years, after the initial rush has worn off. What kind of support will you need to keep up this pace?", "replies": [{"id": "ivaxqd4", "text": "This is also great advice and gives me another perspective to think about,  thank you!", "replies": [{"id": "ivb7ix7", "text": "The reality is, the long hours will never end. Not for our generation. That\u2019s something that belongs to baby boomers and gen x. This is how it\u2019s gonna be for a very long time, and that\u2019s the frame of reference you need to plan for the future.", "replies": [{"id": "ivb82d7", "text": "Agreed! I feel like society always shames people who make work their whole lives but I don't see if a problem with it if you're not feeling burnt out and passionate about what you do", "replies": [{"id": "ivbzvjp", "text": "As long as you make time for the people closest to you, then you can make it work!", "replies": [], "depth": 5}], "depth": 4}], "depth": 3}], "depth": 2}], "depth": 1}, {"id": "iva67te", "text": "At 44, I say working those hours for 20 years was a mistake.", "replies": [{"id": "ivaz84w", "text": "May I ask why you think that way?", "replies": [{"id": "ivbbis9", "text": "Honestly, I'm pretty lonely.  Sure, I have a huge nearly 5,000 sf house by the beach in Connecticut, fancy cars and motorcycles, a grand piano, etc...   But what friends I still have are married with children.  My prior partying life in Manhattan is now just boring.  I quit drinking, and started to get back into golf and sailing... Probably skiing this year.  \n\nBut it's hard.  Money just doesn't buy you lasting friendships.  And once you hit my age, you lose your drive all around.  Not everyone, but many.  I know guys at 63 killing it, hate their wives, etc and still have it.", "replies": [{"id": "ivbcvhk", "text": "Thank you for sharing your story and I hope you find true happiness soon", "replies": [], "depth": 4}], "depth": 3}], "depth": 2}], "depth": 1}, {"id": "iva78ur", "text": "Of course you\u2019ve only been in the business 6 months, this is a mentality I\u2019ve seen in countless 22 year olds who burn out the first time they don\u2019t get a promotion they want.", "replies": [], "depth": 1}, {"id": "ivab0h5", "text": "So just I don't have to reply to every comment and I'll probably get down voted more for this but there's a reason why I asked this question directly toward those who actually work 70-80 hours a week. \n\nI understand that this lifestyle isn't healthy for 95% of the population, I understand that this will probably effect other aspects in my life and I understand that I should make time for other things in my life. Truth is, there's nothing else that gives me such a sense of fulfillment and happiness than this career. Being raised from Vietnamese immigrants, my father was the exact same way to provide for us and I couldnt live with myself if I didn't work just as hard for all his sacrifices", "replies": [], "depth": 1}, {"id": "ivakj4y", "text": "Many people are saying to qhit and find a new job. Yeah thats the easiest solution but your question was if you work those hours for a decade or two, how do you actually do it.\n\nIve done that for years. 60 hours is pretty standard, 70 sucka and 80 crushes the family. The first thing you need is an understanding partner. My wife has a tough job too so she understands and can relate. If your SO doesnt, you will probably need to date people that do understand.\n\nSecond, you work and work is also a hobby. After that all your time is allocated to family. If somrthing else is important to you, that time will pull from family unfortunately. You have to accept your social life will be a low priority, working out will be a low priority, personal time is a low priority. Prioritization and acceptance of that is key to sustaining it long term, otherwise it doesnt work.\n\nThird, building on above is ruthlessly prioritizing and setting boundries. Standard to me was 14 hour days for Mon to Fri. Get up, get ready, help get kifs ready (so spend a little time with family) then work a full day. Lunch was always a meeting and never wasted a minute. Living near work was key, so your 14 hours is 8:30 start (or earlier) 10:30 finish.   That grinds out 70 hours. \n\nIf I had to work less than that I would get home for dinner with the family 1-2 days a week (usually friday) since I either spent time with family or I worked. None of this get home at 8 after kids are in bed and watch tv bullshit.\n\nNow based on the above, my weekend was 100% free. If I had to crank more work out, I would block off an afternoon/evening and grind it out. Usually id either go to work at 7 am Sunday and leave by 5, or go to work at noon and leave at 10. That is an 80 our week with 1 full day and a morning/evening for family time.  Now that is a tougher grind for sure but if your spouse knows and you know kids are just chilling sunday afternoon, I didnt miss ballet or beach time or taking them to the park. Key thing is that unless it is an emergency (and usually you can plan it) you never work outside your set hours. I never check email from 7-8 am while I get my kids ready. I dont check email or respond if I'm having dinner.\n\nLast thing is that you outsource all shit work. Get a maid. Get a nanny that helps do garbage time (like sitting in traffic to pick up kids and prep food) etc. Its just a cost of this committment but I hate doing that shit. Whats more important for me to do personally, park with the kids or doing laundry? \n\nIve sustained the above for more than 15 years. Now ive pulled down to 50-60 hours and can work remote frequently, then it is super easy. Literally can grab dinner with tbe family and keep working, 8 to 9:30 with 6-7:30 family break. Only couple hours on a weekend max. Can mix in gym easily, etc. Just cant when I pop to 70+ weeks.", "replies": [{"id": "ival6re", "text": "This is exactly what I needed, working less hours isn't an option for me so I needed to get advice on how to handle it. Thank you so much man and I hope your long hours are paying off!", "replies": [], "depth": 2}, {"id": "ivcvpcg", "text": "Pretty much me... toss in 5 AM to 9 or 10ish on Saturdays and Sundays totally off. The borders help. NOTHING 6-8 PM during the week, same for Sunday. Someone chips into that and it starts to feel real hard...", "replies": [], "depth": 2}], "depth": 1}, {"id": "ivawl0t", "text": "Work 80 hour week equates to no personal life", "replies": [], "depth": 1}, {"id": "ivb749b", "text": "It's sad to say (not really) but no one cares how hard you work because anyone can work hard. Whether you're an employee or an owner the only thing that matters is how much business you bring in. Im a RE finance lawyer and I have a friend in his early 40s who's an equity partner because he brought in a huge bank as a client, the firm does all the banks lending work in NY, he goes to every one of his kids soccer games and dance recitals, and spends most of his business day having lunch. I also know a lawyer who is probably the best at his job I've ever seen, has never brought in a dollar of business, works 12 hours a day, is a 65 year old associate, and is completely replaceable in about a month if need be. Figure out a way to be a finder and you can hire minders and grinders to do the work.", "replies": [{"id": "ivchlps", "text": "Figure out a way to be a finder and you can hire minders and grinders to to the work. ~ Epic Quote. \ud83d\ude4f", "replies": [], "depth": 2}], "depth": 1}, {"id": "ivcwz6s", "text": "You have to have a plan.  I work 80+ hours for several weeks out of the year - but I am doing it less each year as part of my plan.  I also make sure that there are times where I do special things with the family.  A week day special trip, a long weekend, etc.", "replies": [], "depth": 1}, {"id": "ixgx53k", "text": "I don\u2019t. I choose not to date anymore. I have no time or energy for someone. I\u2019ve tired to make the time, but it\u2019s never enough.\n\nI made the decision to stop dating after the last fiasco which sunk due to the above reasons. I made this decision to save myself grief and save someone else from disappointment and confusion.\n\nI don\u2019t know how to do both. I personally feel I don\u2019t have the physical, emotional or mental capacity to do so. Maybe some others do, but I don\u2019t. I\u2019m an introvert and am exhausted at the end of my work days. I need a lot of recharge time, time for hobbies and my loved ones (immediate family whom I\u2019m close with, and my friends)\u2026.These things are all on rotation. There\u2019s no room for one more ball (relationship) to juggle.\n\nRight now, I am currently taking a course to further my education. I\u2019m also running my business which doesn\u2019t bare fruit unless I work. I can\u2019t handle the added stress of someone being angry or upset with me for not being around enough. I can\u2019t blame them for being upset though, which is why I just choose not to date.\n\nI\u2019m interested in seeing the other comments here and how other people manage to swing it.\n\nBtw, I work so hard because of high housing costs, inflation etc. I literally cannot afford to take extra time off for someone\u2026 If I don\u2019t rest and I date, then my health and career/income will suffer. If I rest instead of taking extra time off work, my hypothetical relationship will suffer. I don\u2019t really feel I have a choice here.", "replies": [{"id": "ixha1so", "text": "I can relate to this on a spiritual level, literally everything you mentioned is how I think so you're not alone man \ud83d\ude4f", "replies": [], "depth": 2}], "depth": 1}]