Finding the right accountant/lawyer to help me grow
So hopefully this fits in with the spirit of the sub.

I have a few motels that have given me the opportunity to grow, however I feel that I'm not getting the most out of my accountant or lawyer.

I've been reading how some CRE businesses split their assets into multiple entities to protect themselves against any issues that might pop up. Separating Management from the ownership of the land/assets. BTW, how many of you do this? Is it worth the protection?

I feel like my accountant/lawyer aren't "volunteering" information, if I don't ask I won't be told whether it's possible or not.

So, is this typical? Do your accountants/lawyers help you grow your investments through advice and long term plans? How did you find them?

thanks,
[{"id": "gtxd72n", "text": "Yes, it\u2019s common, and yes it\u2019s worth it to limit your exposure. Reach out to some different law firms and find one in your area who has a good reputation in the CRE industry. Good lawyers are expensive, but if you tell them what your looking for, they will help you set the business(s) up in a way that maximizes protections for you.\n\nOf course additional LLC\u2019s complicate things in terms of books, taxes, annual filings, etc., but those are standard things that any attorney / CPA who is familiar with CRE can guide you through. \n\nOnce you have a basic template established, it\u2019s easy to scale to future properties.\n\nIt sounds like it may be time to tell your current team you don\u2019t feel they are helping you achieve your goals. If that doesn\u2019t go anywhere, it\u2019s time to move on and find a team that will help you.\n\nGood luck!", "replies": [{"id": "gtxmqme", "text": "Absolutely go hunting for a new CPA (find one with a CFP designation) Attorney needs to be CRE specific.", "replies": [], "depth": 2}], "depth": 1}, {"id": "gtxdchy", "text": "I've been in the business for over 20 years and have found the kind of attorneys/accountants you are wanting are few and far between. I was able to find some watching YouTube videos on asset protection strategies.  One of the best I have found is Anderson Business Advisors.  Check them out and they are probably the type of attorney you're looking to hire.", "replies": [], "depth": 1}, {"id": "gtxem71", "text": "I started my career at an accounting firm in the RE group. The partner I worked for was involved in all aspects of our clients business, especially structuring and transactions. But I must say, it was not cheap for the client. ~$1000/hr (NYC) + retainer. Ultimately with these services, you get what you pay for. If you\u2019re on the smaller scale, try to find a small niche RE firm and don\u2019t use the guy that does you and your neighbor\u2019s 1040.", "replies": [], "depth": 1}, {"id": "gtxspqm", "text": "There are a few reasons to incorporate\n\n(1) tax deferral (although with multiple companies, moving funds between is a challenge, you may want a holding co above the holding co's for the individual properties.\n\n(2) liability reasons. Let's say you need to limit personal liability, or want to firewall assets. Real estate requires a lot of debt, and that increases risk that you may not want to spill over to other assets.\n\n(3) having multiple shareholders. MUCH easier than if you are holding the assets individually. You may need to take on business 'partners', being able to sell shares makes that easier. You may also want to give shares via asset freeze to your children or grandchildren to make it easier to pass assets to the next generation.\n\n------\n\nThis all costs money in annual bookkeeping and corporate filings, there are legal and tax filing requirements.", "replies": [], "depth": 1}, {"id": "gtxv1g0", "text": "I do a lot of restaurant transactions, and in almost every instance the buyer or seller of an owner operated restaurant property owns the business in Operator LLC/Inc which leases the property from Owner LLC/Inc.\n\nThis is for multiple reasons. The first is that it puts liability of operating the business onto the business, and shields the property to a greater degree.\n\nThere are also advantages in the tax code to recognizing income through real estate versus an operating business.\n\nIt is very hard to find a good accountant/lawyer, but you should definitely discuss these with each and solicit ideas. \n\nTypically staying in the same state is best. I would reach out the biggest developers, restaurant owners and motel/hotel owners in the biggest cities near you in your state. \n\nHospitality law is unique itself and might be worth looking for a hotel specialist.", "replies": [], "depth": 1}, {"id": "gtxwaae", "text": "I am a real estate lawyer. When it comes to legal counsel, you really need to tell us what you want. I have some clients who see me as their lawyer and an integral part of their business, consulting me on a slew of decisions, even some which aren't strictly legal in nature. I have some who want me elbow deep in the entire deal, looking at the due diligence for them, hammering the other party and vendors with questions, giving my thoughts on the deal both legally and businesswise. Others view me as a commodity; I get brought it to review the contract after LOI's have been signed, make sure the Title Commitment is ok, and that's about it - I am not part of their deal, I am someone who completes tasks for them. You really have to decide what kind of lawyer you want and tell your lawyer that. Some lawyers aren't that type. My preference is to be more of a partner to my clients because understanding the overall deal and their long term and short term goals help me better represent them. One of my partners is much more of the transactional type who doesn't really have any desire to understand the deal itself, only handle the legal aspects. Just depends on what you need really.\n\nFinding a lawyer is best done by getting a referral from someone in your industry who you trust and who has a high level of competence. Truly talented real estate people will always have an amazing accountant and lawyer. \n\nLastly, yes, every asset you own should be in a different entity, as should every stream of income. So if you own 3 hotels and a management company, I would have a different operating entity for each hotel business (assuming you are also the operator), one for each actual piece of real estate, and one for your management company. So if you went all LLC's, you would have 7 different entities, plus maybe one umbrella holding company depending on your tax desires. This is for maximum liability protection. - not legal advice, never trust anyone on reddit, we all eat crayons for breakfast.", "replies": [{"id": "gtyig9b", "text": "real estate lawyer (also) here. this is the right answer", "replies": [], "depth": 2}], "depth": 1}, {"id": "gtyt20q", "text": "Are you needing more asset protection or operational liability protection? I\u2019m an attorney for the latter but happy to refer you as well.", "replies": [], "depth": 1}]