How necessary is college these days to break into a top CRE firm?
18 year old here. I’m currently in college and in the process of getting my Illinois real estate license. I’m really starting to reflect on whether college is worth it or not. For context I’m an economics major at the University of Illinois at Urbana Champaign.

To any CRE brokers: do you feel college was worth it? Do you regret not going to college?

Thanks in advance.
[{"id": "galvhv7", "text": "I would say it's mostly required.\n\nEveryone in my firm has a business degree and most have an MBA.", "replies": [], "depth": 1}, {"id": "galvrpc", "text": "Haven't met a single broker/analyst/support staff member who doesn't have a degree in 5 years of doing it.", "replies": [{"id": "galx4f3", "text": "Wow, quite the contrast from the residential world.", "replies": [{"id": "galxqqm", "text": "I see you're young and excited but the road to commercial success takes years on years on years. Minimum 3 years to even make a livable income. If you don't have 3 years of cash to sustain yourself while you work on deals as you start, I'd walk away now.", "replies": [{"id": "galxwe3", "text": "Or you'd need a second job. It's a rewarding career, but the ramp-up time is rough.", "replies": [{"id": "galyhw6", "text": "How common are CRE wholesalers? I know residential brokers resent wholesalers because of their lack of education/licensing, but I\u2019m wondering if it\u2019s the same for CRE.", "replies": [{"id": "galzq7u", "text": "Yes. Wholesalers are gernally considered a lower rung on the CRE ladder. There are a lot of jobs in CRE though, leasing, sales, asset management, property management, construction, legal, zoning, appraisal, etc.\n\nOverall commercial real estate requires a higher level of skill and customer service than residential, which is why college degrees are much more common. A valuation of a property isn't as simple as looking at the average sale price of homes on that street. A property may be vacant. What is it's highest and best use. What are the lease terms of various tenants, there are net vs gross lease structures, tax avoidance strategies like 1031 exchanges and accelerated depreciation. What will construction costs be, who pays for them? What is the demand for office or industrial or medical or retail? Can the use or zoning be changed to a more valuable one? Should you invest money to redevelop a property or leave it as is?\n\nThere is a lot more math/underwriting involved. Many people in CRE either went to college (some with advanced degrees) or worked in a related field before entering the industry to gain real world experience. Not to say it's impossible to work your way up from the ground, but keep in mind you are going to have to interact daily with clients who do have degrees and are often quite sophisticated, so whether you learn formally or informally it will take years to learn what you need to know to be able to properly answer more complex questions.", "replies": [{"id": "gam04hm", "text": "Agree with what this guy says. There are no shortcuts, no cheat codes and it takes years upon years to be even remotely successful. Wholesales are the lowest of the low.", "replies": [], "depth": 7}], "depth": 6}, {"id": "galztnw", "text": "Commercial wholesalers are non-existent. Why would an owner trust their(usually) most valuable asset in the hands of someone with no experience?\n\nI'd challenge you to go make 10,000 cold calls like we did in our first years and come back to this question.\n\nEdit: You most likely will not be making good money even if you bust your ass until age 30 or so.", "replies": [{"id": "gan1taw", "text": "You could say the closer to \"wholeselling\" in commercial is development. You buy empty at a lower cap, take the risk to fill it and dispose it when fill it. It is very risky if you don't know what you are doing and do not have the cash to execute the strategy.", "replies": [], "depth": 7}], "depth": 6}], "depth": 5}], "depth": 4}, {"id": "gan1gb6", "text": "I do not agree with this if you have an education and some skill.", "replies": [{"id": "gap6g8o", "text": "I agree but the burnout rate should be indicative of how difficult it is to solely hunt listings and make deals without other income/savings. What did you make your first 3 years of hustling listings and deals if you don\u2019t mind me asking? \nI certainly was not making anything considered \u201cgood money\u201d for the first few years", "replies": [{"id": "gapfcoe", "text": "I think i got lucky and I got deals and referrals from the start. My first closing took some months, but after that one I began moving forward and living out of it.", "replies": [], "depth": 6}], "depth": 5}], "depth": 4}], "depth": 3}], "depth": 2}, {"id": "gamjw44", "text": "That is very true here in CA also. I know one successful agent quietly told me the realtors are well educated than ever.  In order to become an appraiser in most states a college degree and relevant courses are required to take the license test. Realtors in CA do not need a college degree.", "replies": [], "depth": 2}], "depth": 1}, {"id": "galxy44", "text": "Everyone has undergrad degree. Many have MBA or JD.", "replies": [], "depth": 1}, {"id": "galzjlb", "text": "Its probably helpful to know why everyone is recommending college. \n\nCollege classes and getting reasonably good grades are valuable for a lot of reasons. But I admit you probably wont learn a lot of sales skills in your college classes. \n\nThe reason college is important to commecial real estate is that you need to be good at connecting with people and maintaining a large network of deal makers and doers. Those skills are developed by socializing in college and other areas of life. College should be something youre enjoying for that reason. Youre out having fun with people and making connections. \n\nIf youre not getting a lot out of college right now, you need to figure out why. Either its not a good network of people, and you should switch schools. Or you dont have the skills yet to make the social connections which make college fun. \n\nIts fine if its the latter, a lot of people are shy when theyre younger. But you should push yourself to get better at connecting with people, particularly if you want to be in commercial real estate", "replies": [{"id": "gam092l", "text": "Great points. Well for starters, I\u2019m taking all my classes remotely, so that\u2019s a bummer. But I\u2019m definitely looking forward to connecting with others as soon as I get to campus though. \n\nI also happen to work with my dad in his HVAC business, so it\u2019s nice to meet CRE professionals every once in a while. \n\nThanks for the advice man.", "replies": [{"id": "gan2nfi", "text": "Let me add that getting a college degree generally offers evidence that you have some sort of analytic ability and finance background. If you are trying to sell me on a business deal and show me that you don\u2019t understand my business / general finance concepts, I\u2019m out. \n\nWhen you are a commercial real estate broker, you need to be able to also serve as a quasi-business consultant in order to get sales \u2014 and particularly if you operate in a mid-sized or small market where you are doing business with mom-and-pops.", "replies": [], "depth": 3}], "depth": 2}], "depth": 1}, {"id": "gam2oyc", "text": "College is an absolute necessity. I work in CRE acquisitions at a PE Firm and I even take what established brokers pitch me with a grain of salt.\n\nIf a guy with no college education tried to sell me some on a multi-million dollar transaction.... yea right", "replies": [], "depth": 1}, {"id": "gam6dpv", "text": "I've met the occasional broker without a BA, but they've all been in the business 20+ yrs.\n\nTypically, I see BAs in business, finance or econ, many MBAs, and the occasional JD.", "replies": [{"id": "gan23iz", "text": "Yes, the only people I know without a degree are people in their 50's and 60's and I can count them with one hand.", "replies": [], "depth": 2}], "depth": 1}, {"id": "gam9hab", "text": "\ud83d\udcaf% required", "replies": [], "depth": 1}, {"id": "gam9iak", "text": "Get the degree.  While not a broker, every commercial broker I have come across had a degree.  Heck, I would say...get the degree, look into other certification/tracks while getting the degree (CCIM, SIOR, CFA) and set yourself up for success.\n\nSome good responses above, but also realize...there is A LOT of time.  No rush. Life is long.  You can go down the RE path and realize you want to open up a pizzeria at 35.  That stuff happens al the time.  I still think a college education should be most young people's goal.  Although I am old and may not understand the difficulties/debt involved for college today.  \n\nAll the best. Don't stress.", "replies": [], "depth": 1}, {"id": "gamilax", "text": "In west coast if you have no prior RE track record, they prefer young agents have a degree in real estate.  Most listing on the billboard shows their degree (mba, esq etc). As there are too many lawyers they also encroach into RE as they know the contract part well enough to tear most purchase contract apart. My point is unless you have relative connection in our area I do not know anyone in SFBA commercial who are not degreed.  CCIM is a must if one wants to advance.\n\nIn SFBA residential real estate because of high concentration of people from high technology, many well educated are showing homes.  Most do not have CCIM designation but have other designations.", "replies": [], "depth": 1}, {"id": "gamv7lz", "text": "I\u2019m in NC, it\u2019s not as important here.  I\u2019d say getting your CCIM is far more beneficial.", "replies": [{"id": "gan288p", "text": "The issue is to get your CCIM you need a number of transactions and 5 years of experience.", "replies": [], "depth": 2}, {"id": "ganwk61", "text": "I work in private equity and honestly I don\u2019t know anyone on the investment side who even knows what a CCIM is let alone cares about it. If someone doesn\u2019t have a 4 year degree I\u2019m not hiring them for anything other than a porter service at a property.", "replies": [], "depth": 2}], "depth": 1}, {"id": "gan1atp", "text": "Yes, totally worth it. CRE is the most analytical and data base area of real estate. You need to learn a lot that simply is not taught on the job. For example, you need to understand some college math (finance math, statistics, regression analysis), you need to understand the economic basics, you need to understand law and law principles, you need to understand other investments, and so on.", "replies": [{"id": "gana3aw", "text": "That is interesting to hear about statistics. I took quite a bit of it in school and I have found it to be a pretty novel skill set in CRE.", "replies": [{"id": "gankx3y", "text": "You need to understand statistics in order to do proper montecarlo simulations if you are a developer and understand what are really your risk.", "replies": [], "depth": 3}], "depth": 2}], "depth": 1}, {"id": "gan2i74", "text": "I am aware of at least 2 brokers in my market who did not actually graduate, but imply they have. They both earn over $1M/yr Gross commissions on average. If you are a hardcore earner then no one is going to ask too many questions... if you are such a talented salesman that you can get the CEO of a fortune 1000 company or owner of a $30M property to trust you to handle their largest financial assets even without a college degree, then you can do whatever the hell you want. Firms will fight to hire you, college degree be damned. For everyone else, yeah, you pretty much need a college degree.\n\nWho needs who more? If you need the class A office and the prestige that comes with working at a publically traded company in order to sell, then they are going to require some bona fides from you. If you can do it solo, then you call the shots. It also helps if you are an absolute psychopath.", "replies": [], "depth": 1}, {"id": "ganfqnp", "text": "There's a lot of comments here recommending the college degree as \"necessary.\" But I just want to add my two cents.\n\nCollege is nothing to performing in an industry like this. Many many many people get into CRE for the money. You need to be ready to feel like you're in law school, or getting your PhD when you enter the industry. Success often looks like 80 hour weeks. The learning curve will take much longer than any bachelor's degree. There's no moderation like a teacher to protect individual students from each other. Imagine a 60 year old multi millionaire with 35 years of experience who is your competition. Who will ruin your reputation. Play with you like shark food. The competitive nature of this business is unlike many others. \n\nSure. You need a college degree at minimum. But if that concerns you, I don't know if the industry will treat you very well. College is a walk in the park by comparison.", "replies": [{"id": "ganlb8w", "text": "I\u2019m not struggling with college, I was just reflecting on whether it\u2019s worth my time or not. As someone had mentioned, four years in college are four years I could\u2019ve spent closing residential transactions as a starting point. However, it seems like the benefits of getting my degree outweigh any drawbacks. \n\nKnowing myself, I haven\u2019t felt intimidated by competitive environments in the past at all, so I\u2019ll use your advice as motivation to learn faster &amp; work harder. Thank you.", "replies": [], "depth": 2}], "depth": 1}, {"id": "ganklyh", "text": "I'm 20 making 6 figures and don't have a degree and am a commercial broker. It is purely related to intelligence and work ethic.  I know high school grads making 7 figures every year. Imagine 5 years of school and pushing papers versus 5 years of real estate experience.  However,  if you plan to do anything besides broker and be an analyst or something get a degree. Brokers, investors, developers, and company owners are the only ones who take risk AKA work on commission so anyone else's salary is primarily capped and they are the ones with unlimited income potential. If your good with six figures, a suit, and pushing papers get a degree. If you want to unlimited income and want to survive and make money based on your own merit, just start hustling.", "replies": [{"id": "ganpqax", "text": "Good stuff man, what firm do you work for? \n\nAlso your comment reminds me of the HVAC industry. I\u2019ve met many skilled installers &amp; technicians through my dad that never went to trade school, and have met trade school guys that didn\u2019t last a month in the industry. Guess it all comes down to an individual\u2019s work ethic, intelligence, and ability to learn fast.", "replies": [{"id": "gao1nml", "text": "Its called ACRE and were on a smaller scale than the national ones and are based out of Washington. The trick to find someone who has 30+ years experience who truly wants to train and mentor you. My boss was one of the most successful real estate developers, brokers, and investors in my market and has been able to give me insight from doing these different things that someone in an office who is in a form of box and doesn't have autonomy or the actual mentorship to guide them and is actually being exploited.", "replies": [{"id": "gao2bnx", "text": "How did you tell that he genuinely wanted to guide &amp; mentor you? As I\u2019ve heard, a lot of top CRE professionals can be very cunning and have a way with words to make younger brokers believe they\u2019re actually going to be mentored.", "replies": [{"id": "gao37wr", "text": "I think it's just a feeling. I got lucky as well but you need to go talk to 5 or 6 firms. Real Estate is all about initiative. You either wait for opportunities or go create them. I went and talked to the head of the 5 biggest firms multifamily brokerages in Seattle by going and just showing up to their office. You will find someone great for you if you go and look and don't just jump on the first person. You will learn if you take the initiative to take classes,  network,  get designations and pick the brains of others. It is a job that you need to consistently learn it. It is full time school for life.  Because the more you work and learn the better you become and the higher you go. Talent is nothing without work ethic. How many very smart people do you know that are out of shape and never go anywhere yet are intelligent? Its simply work ethic and the dedication to better your practice.", "replies": [], "depth": 5}], "depth": 4}], "depth": 3}], "depth": 2}, {"id": "gantsmu", "text": "Lol at brokerage being \u201cunlimited income\u201d. I understand it\u2019s a meritocracy, but your upside is certainly capped at some point", "replies": [{"id": "gao1i14", "text": "Why? Just get assistants and delegate. Expand the brokerage. Go into a different asset class. Start a group. Create an investment fund and broker the deals.  Theres not really a cap as far as I can see. There is so much real estate and in reality so few agents in comparison. The majority as well don't have the actual work ethic to make 150 cold calls a day and consistently stick at once they get to a place that's comfortable.", "replies": [], "depth": 3}], "depth": 2}], "depth": 1}, {"id": "ganqx1c", "text": "I am a commercial broker, a CCIM, and a CPM.  I do not have a college degree.", "replies": [], "depth": 1}, {"id": "gaq9tv0", "text": "CRE broker / owner here.  I just turned 31 yesterday. I've been in the CRE brokerage business since I was 19.  I dropped out of college around 21 / 22. When I officially dropped out I was already making well in to the 6 figures (net) from brokerage and I had just hired my own assistant.  I got my CCIM designation at 23.  I was the #1 top producing agent at my prior employer by the age of 26 and it was one of the largest CRE brokerage firms in the state of Louisiana. At the age of 27, I broke off and started a brokerage firm, Elifin Realty (google it).\n\nDo I regret not getting a degree? Not for a second.  Has it held me back from advancing? Not in the slightest.  Why not? Because I worked my butt off. I knocked on doors, I cold called, and I obsessed over the profession. I don't think there's anything I haven't done in brokerage. I've repped fortune 500 companies in corporate services. I've repped REITs in disposition and landlord rep assignments. I've repped financial institutions on foreclosure dispositions. Tenant rep for national retailers. Investment sales of multi million dollar properties.  Sale leaseback transactions. Development deals. Consulting on mergers and acquisitions. Etc.\n\nSo if your question was, do you need a college degree to be a top CRE broker? The answer is a resounding no.  Although that doesn't mean it wouldn't help you. It just depends what you make of it and what you do instead.\n\nBut your question is, \"How necessary is college these days to break into a top CRE firm?\" What do you mean by a top CRE firm?  Do you mean one of the publicly traded brokerage firms (M&amp;M, CBRE, Cushman, Newmark, Colliers) ? Do you want to work in a major market (Chicago, New York, etc.)?  The answer to your question depends on that context.\n\nEven though I don't require it, everyone (except for me) that works at our firm has at least an undergraduate degree and some have more than that (Masters/MBA/JD).  That said, I'd hire a bright, diligent, likeable, professional person with a chip on their shoulder that's willing to make a few hundred prospect dials per week over someone with a college degree that's not any of those things.\n\nThe best advice I received in my career when I was 18/19 was \"start now\".  In other words, I was interested in commercial real estate and so I went out at 19 and I got a job working for a commercial real estate agent as his assistant.  I offered to work for free because I was after knowledge and experience, not money.  He paid me $2 an hour.  I was paying for almost all of my bills at that time and didn't have much savings but that just made me more hungry to succeed. I didn't decide between CRE brokerage and going to college at the beginning. I did both at first, worked my butt off in CRE brokerage and stayed in school.  It wasn't until I knew that I both liked CRE brokerage and was great at it that I made the calculated decision to officially drop out.\n\nMy recommendation to you is to stay in college for now (make the most of it in terms of knowledge and network) while in your free time go around to all the CRE brokerage firms in your area (reach out to both the firms AND the top producing agents directly because sometimes they'll hire their own interns separate from the firm) and offer to work for them outside of your class schedule and do absolutely anything they needed you to do. Just to learn the business.  It took me doing that with 6 or so different places before one said yes.  Then, after you've done that for a while and decided it's something you want to pursue as a career, you'll have a much better idea if you'll need that college degree to work where you'd like to work.", "replies": [{"id": "gaqe4ph", "text": "Your story is the epitome of \u201cthose with degrees work for those without.\u201d Congrats on all of your achievements. I\u2019m glad to hear that it is certainly possible to find success in this field without a degree. \n\nHope your comment inspires other people. It certainly inspired me.", "replies": [], "depth": 2}], "depth": 1}]