I’m thinking of studying as a CRE appraiser. What are the pros and cons of this career?
Hi, I am currently a uni student in Vietnam. Its RE market is expected to grow considerably in the future and I think CRE valuation is a nice career to pursue. Please tell this young and know-nothing guy about the pros and cons of this career and what sets of skills do I need to be good at it?
[{"id": "h06fhpw", "text": "Pros: stable, 9-5, bring-your-lunch-to-work type of job and shoot the breeze with Allen, the IT guy, at the water cooler. \n\nCons: stable, 9-5, bring-your-lunch-to-work type of job and shoot the breeze with Allen, the IT guy, at the water cooler.", "replies": [{"id": "h06ifmy", "text": "Okay that sounds cool and all but, seriously man, do you do much work outside of shooting the breeze with Allen at the water cooler? What kind of skill does it require and is the pay good?", "replies": [{"id": "h06neui", "text": "I\u2019d recommend taking a look into the Appraisal Institute if you haven\u2019t already to get an idea of what to expect. You need to have a good understanding of real estate (obviously), finance, and economics and be comfortable writing a report. I can\u2019t speak for all, but my experience is nothing like the prior comment. Pay is stable but lumpy. Unless it\u2019s a brokerage with an appraisal division, offices are smaller and your coworkers are generally other appraisers. Hours vary depending on workload. I\u2019ve heard of salary pay but typically it\u2019s a fee split of 30-75% depending on various factors but mainly experience.", "replies": [], "depth": 3}, {"id": "h06oisg", "text": "It\u2019s hard to answer your questions without context. What\u2019s your definition of \u201cgood\u201d pay? It pays enough that you can order a side of guacamole at chipotle without batting an eye. Will you be driving a panamera? No.\n\nAs for your question on skill, it requires no more or less skill than other segments of commercial real estate finance.", "replies": [{"id": "h094y94", "text": "&gt;It pays enough that you can order a side of guacamole at chipotle without batting an eye. Will you be driving a panamera? No.\n\nDang this is spot on. I am thinking of trying to make the transition to being a broker or lender.", "replies": [{"id": "h095zv8", "text": "don\u2019t forget for every broker driving a panamera, there are a dozen just scraping by!", "replies": [{"id": "h097kqh", "text": "Very true! I\u2019m glad for the skills I have learned as an appraiser but it is very hard to scale this business. I physically can\u2019t fit any more jobs in a month.", "replies": [], "depth": 6}], "depth": 5}], "depth": 4}], "depth": 3}, {"id": "h06s115", "text": "Appraisal is both a volume business and a relationship business. You are paid per appraisal and it is not a lot for the amount of work you do. You need relationships with banks, as most shops do not have enough volume for you to just do the appraisals. So you have to network with banks to get the work, and then do the work cheaper then the next guy to get more work ect. So if you don\u2019t have a senior guy that has these relationships it is tough starting out. \n\nIn down markets every broker turns into an appraisal doing free bovs to try to drum up business and you constantly need to defend against those bs numbers. \n\nThat all may be local to the us though. I am not sure how cre markets work in other countries. I assume if you work for a big international shop you should probably be ok as a local market expert.", "replies": [], "depth": 3}, {"id": "h09m3mf", "text": "I came from a finance background and it transitioned beautifully. Mostly the same formulas in a different context. I love being an appraiser as it has given me a profound understanding of the value in almost everything. I just want to own a couple apartment complexes, multi tenant industrial properties and mobile home parks. Mailbox money", "replies": [], "depth": 3}], "depth": 2}, {"id": "h06rgq2", "text": "Maybe you\u2019re confusing MAI with CPA, or you\u2019re describing appraisers who work at banks. Fee appraisers are on commission and consider themselves self employed.", "replies": [], "depth": 2}], "depth": 1}, {"id": "h06jmy5", "text": "Most people in this Sub are from North America which will have an incredibly different system of landlaw than Vietnam.\n\nThere should be an industry body in Vietnam (Something similar to the RICS) that can guide you into the right direction.", "replies": [], "depth": 1}, {"id": "h06ms0w", "text": "Look through r/appraisal for similar questions/posts", "replies": [], "depth": 1}, {"id": "h06rpde", "text": "I have no idea what the industry is like in Vietnam. Here in the US once you finish your initial education it takes about 5 years as an apprentice before you start to make a decent living, and the education continues.", "replies": [], "depth": 1}, {"id": "h06tfuv", "text": "As others have said, you may have a widely different experience in Vietnam. From my experience in the US, it took 30 months to go from apprentice to fully licensed commercial appraiser. I work from home and the hours vary. Some weeks I work 30 hours, other weeks I work 40, sometimes I work 70. Just depends on the volume and type of work coming in. Single-tenant industrial properties take about 3-4 hours to write; whereas a Class A multi-tenant office building may take 3-4 days, so it really depends on what kind of properties are in your market", "replies": [], "depth": 1}, {"id": "h07h4nm", "text": "Pro - reliable . Con - not an investor", "replies": [], "depth": 1}, {"id": "h07w6lt", "text": "Honestly, if I was Viet, I would be trying to build the Vietnamese version of Costar. Clearly the land appreciation is insane, and there will be a huge rebound in office/retail/hospitality once you guys either approve your own vaccine or but someone else's.\n\nBut how to understand the market? How do we know (especially as international investors) what the \"true\" value is?\n\nIt seems super opaque to me. Of course, I can barely say my name in Vietnamese, but from what I gather, access to public records on a GIS about who owns what and what the debt structure is and etc etc, just isn't a thing.\n\nSo maybe being an entrepreneur in proptech in Vietnam might prove more attractive than RICS or MAI certs. \n\n&amp;#x200B;\n\nSend me a DM if you want more opinions and ideas. Also would be good to learn from a RE student in Vietnam. An amazing country and what a decade you guys have ahead of you!", "replies": [], "depth": 1}, {"id": "h09ls0e", "text": "In the US, once you get certified the doors are open. I left a shit paying job with my mentor and went to a residential firm making an excellent fee split. Then I went back to commercial at a national firm because it was boring, however, I continued working residential on the side. Now I quit commercial and am back on full time doing residential with an incredible fee split. The past year has been the busiest and most profitable in my life but having no quality of life made me want to go back to managing my own schedule and somewhat softer due dates. If you aren\u2019t an MAI in the US, the only thing being a general does is give you a leg up to certified residential guys. Just my experience. If you can\u2019t figure out how to make the money you want and manage life, then being an appraiser may not be for you. Good luck. Just be prepared to be a grunt for several years before the doors open", "replies": [], "depth": 1}]