Trouble getting deposit back from commercial building! (WA)
I have been leasing a building since 1988...My father had a building built and never purchased it. I bought the business in 2012 but the owners wanted a fortune for it and I continued to lease. Now it has been purchased by a new owner and I am leaving. When I asked the new owner about the deposit, he did not know about it. I have a sheet from our ledger showing a check#, amount and date. I also have on going negotiations with landlord on other issues that I have posted about (not having complete access to all property and septic backup issue) What is the best way to go about this without getting attorneys involved?
[{"id": "fr95zmu", "text": "You'll need to find the original fully executed copy of the Lease. Without the agreement itself telling you what the terms are as they relate to the deposit, then it doesn't really exist.", "replies": [{"id": "fr9tcuj", "text": "The lease document is your best bet to avoid attorneys at this point. You likely signed a document affirming the lease and any amendments is in full force and effect prior to the close of the most recent sale. On top of this, the buyer should have reviewed the lease prior to the purchase as well and been made aware of any security deposit.", "replies": [{"id": "fr9z237", "text": "Yes, typically a form called an estoppel is used for the seller of the property to show the buyer that the existing tenants agree to what the seller is representing. A typical PSA calls for the anchor tenant and 75-95% execution rate on tenant estoppels. If you didn\u2019t receive one to execute prior to the finalization of the sale; hopefully your lease documents protect you.", "replies": [], "depth": 3}], "depth": 2}, {"id": "fr9zmjr", "text": "Oh great...I found a bunch of old paperwork that I'm sifting through. Maybe I can find the original contract.", "replies": [], "depth": 2}], "depth": 1}, {"id": "fr9uopl", "text": "I would honestly retain counsel for this. You should present the lease to them, assuming the deposit is large enough to merit it, and let them figure out how to approach.", "replies": [{"id": "fr9zvlx", "text": "It is more than $5k!", "replies": [{"id": "fra2ytx", "text": "If it was $5,000 over thirty years ago, then you should absolutely retain counsel to review your lease. In some states, but not all, Landlords are required to return your security deposit with interest. Every lease is different. Your $5,000 could be much more today.\n\nedit: I would also ask any attorney you speak to about whether or not he is willing to entertain an alternative fee agreement. You may not be able to avoid paying for lease review per hour, but if you do find your landlord is unwilling to return and you require arbitration/litigation for recovery, many plaintiff's counsels will accept a success fee rather than billing by the hour.", "replies": [{"id": "frcrnwb", "text": "Thanks for the insight.  I spoke to the new owner and the only number that is on his contract for a deposit, is $1,200.  It seems to me that the seller arbitrarily gave a figure.  I was not asked during the process anything about the details of my so called lease.  The previous owner was an \"old school\" type of company and most of the stuff to do with my building was on a hand shake.  I am also asking for a discount due to the new landlord/tenant doing upgrades to the building and lot 2 months ago that fenced off some of the property so I could not access.  Today I will be talking to the seller's agent (friend for 20 years) about the situation.  I will be inquiring about an attorney as well.  Thanks again.", "replies": [{"id": "fresx6r", "text": "At some point you would have had to sign an estoppel when the building was sold outlining the terms of your lease. Standard practice, lender also would have required it. Look for that, it would outline any deposit that you would have a claim to. It would be pretty tough to argue that the deposit is anything other than what you signed off on when you executed the estoppel. \n\nAlso you mentioned it\u2019s $5K, will cost you more in legal to get the money than the deposit is worth. If you can\u2019t find any backup documents (original lease, amendments, estoppels) that prove that there\u2019s money outstanding on the ledger I\u2019d probably just drop it, not worth the time. As an LL even with the backup I\u2019d probably tell you to pound sand the ledger provided by prior owner proves up the amount of deposit; counter argument from the LL is that the deposit could have been applied to rent or tenant elected TI or something at some point over the last 30 some odd years.", "replies": [{"id": "frgba43", "text": "Wonderful. I did not sign anything during the transaction or asked to review.  \n\nEdit:  I just found the original \"Intent to Lease\" that is signed by my father under TENANT and under LANDLORD is signed by the company we leased to. It was not signed as a person, but the company. It also states the deposit amount is - first and last six months. Said deposit held in an interest bering trust account with the interest accrued in construction phase of building to be credited to tenants rental account.  The doc is dated.", "replies": [{"id": "frhqaua", "text": "LOI isn\u2019t the lease though, will need to find the actual lease, what you have is a non-binding document. Good luck!!", "replies": [{"id": "frht3fh", "text": "Thanks.  What if there is no current lease of record that the seller could not find or myself?  Do I have a leg to stand on with them arbitrarily putting a generic amount for the deposit they think was appropriate?", "replies": [{"id": "frhwiyv", "text": "Nope, without legal documents you don\u2019t have anything to prove it up. They have a ledger which shows an amount. If you went to court you\u2019d get the ledger amount and no more as neither party has anything to rely on.", "replies": [{"id": "fri5hg5", "text": "I have the ledger, not them.  If what you say is the case. I would be ecstatic!  How can they argue I used any of the deposit for rent or other expenses if no records exist?", "replies": [{"id": "fri5nsh", "text": "That\u2019s the problem there\u2019s no documentation. Pull all of the lease documentation you have and show it to them to prove up the deposit.", "replies": [], "depth": 11}], "depth": 10}], "depth": 9}], "depth": 8}], "depth": 7}], "depth": 6}], "depth": 5}], "depth": 4}], "depth": 3}], "depth": 2}], "depth": 1}, {"id": "frhpvja", "text": "Getting more and more frustrated with this issue. Talking to the new owner. He says his contract states a deposit of $1200. Where the hell did that number come from?  Is a signed letter of intent nonbearing?  I never signed an estoppel.  There is more to the situation that I didn't think needed to be stated early, but no with new info, it has to be stated. To try to be accommodating, I suggested that the new lessee could move into the front office. I can operate out of the back until the buyout was complete. Discussing details today with lessor, he stated he is in a pickle with the current situation...I am now looking to hire attorney because this is getting convoluted.", "replies": [], "depth": 1}, {"id": "fri6vrh", "text": "I'm curious to know why a signed intent to lease doc and a ledger sheet showing a check, party made out to would not be enough...being able to produce docs that are 32 years old is difficult at best. We have occupied this damn building through whole time. Yes the first owner apparently defaulted and the second owner bought it and has owned it (25+ yrs) until early this year when it was sold. Yes I know the legal system is convoluted.  Just sucks that I would be out a bunch of money.", "replies": [], "depth": 1}]