Why is it better to work for a CRE company that holds equity?
I've heard before that it is important to work for a company that actually owns CRE,  rather than work for a company that specializes in construction/development or specializes in management.

Is it because salaries are generally higher? or because if the company owns the property, they are likely to have  development &amp; management side as well?

Thanks for the help.
[{"id": "ht2i617", "text": "I\u2019m not sure it matters my friend. At least in my market, we have companies that do both, and both  sets of companies are successful.", "replies": [], "depth": 1}, {"id": "ht2jo1p", "text": "This is a prestige thing.\n\nThe owner ultimately has the power in pretty much every interaction because they own the land, and therefore it\u2019s the sexiest side of the business, particularly as a developer.\n\nBut the truth is\u2026 the people I most admire as a developer are the best civil engineers. The grass is always greener, my friend.", "replies": [{"id": "ht2m2fj", "text": "&gt; civil engineers\n\nFTW. We have one whom we regularly work with, basically saves our ass on every project after the geotech gives us bad news", "replies": [{"id": "ht2o02u", "text": "Yep. If you have the wrong civil you are totally fucked. What they do is really the only piece of the development that I simply cannot fully understand, no matter how hard I try. Architect, yes. GC, yes. Consultants, yes. Civil? Dude, I\u2019m so lost.\n\nConversely, the right civil will actually do a lot of the local politics for you AND fix any problems for you as they come up because of their intimate local knowledge. Remember \u2014 the Town has a requirement they have to hit. If your development has a problem, the elected officials don\u2019t understand how the watershed works either. Only the local civil engineer that the Town officials trust can explain to the Town officials: \u201cdude, just block off this other piece and we can reallocate this land to protect the watershed and comply with ACOE rules.\u201d", "replies": [{"id": "ht2p4yy", "text": "Why are civil engineers not paid more then? CE's can make alright money, but in my observation, the financial analysts and project managers that work at the same companies make more $.", "replies": [{"id": "ht2qx2v", "text": "Try not to worry about what you\u2019re getting paid NOW. \u201cAlright money\u201d is pretty good coming out of school, and there\u2019s really no way to skip grinding for at least 2 years while you get applicable knowledge to move into CRE.\n\nThe reason civils do not get paid as much as owners is because owner side takes all of the risk. Civil engineers are hugely valuable, but ultimately if the project has a shortfall the owner comes out of pocket.", "replies": [], "depth": 5}], "depth": 4}, {"id": "ht2qdjd", "text": "This happens in the regular. The muni planning board starts to get wild and we always have the attorney say, 'our project engineer will coordinate with the muni engineer' and then our civil basically talks the town down. Like, \"no, we can't move/import enough earth to make up 30 ft of grade on this end of the site,\" etc.", "replies": [{"id": "ht2qlcw", "text": "Where are you located haha? I want to work with your civil. I\u2019m in Indianapolis", "replies": [{"id": "ht2ty4m", "text": "I\u2019m in Jersey haha. I\u2019ve worked with our go-to on 4 projects now, he\u2019s always able to finesse the site plan around all the problems with the land (very high seasonal water table, crazy grade, wetlands, etc), manage all the new stormwater and quality regs, etc. He had a conflict and couldn\u2019t join the team on one project, man, the difference is night and day between our main guy and the firm we brought onto the project.", "replies": [], "depth": 6}, {"id": "ht3voyi", "text": "Go Indy!", "replies": [], "depth": 6}], "depth": 5}], "depth": 4}], "depth": 3}], "depth": 2}, {"id": "ht2o8np", "text": "I'm set to graduate with a civil engineering degree next year, and while I am skilled at solving complex math/physics problems, I don't see myself grinding math problems my whole life. \n\nThe idea of working on the financial/business/managing side of construction interests me more than the technical calculations associates with structural analysis. Would you recommend I work as a CE before transferring to CRE?\n\nAlso, doesn't working for the owner (who has the power) mean you are working on the creative side? Rather than just working for a construction/development company who is told exactly what to make.", "replies": [{"id": "ht2q646", "text": "Not if you are a CE. 90% of developers do not have a CE background and so they are entirely dependent upon you to figure out creative solutions for them. It isn\u2019t necessarily the sexy stuff (building design) but you can figure out what really happens under the hood in your local area. It is also an excellent fallback option in case there is a recession; there aren\u2019t enough CEs to do the jobs needed.\n\nI wholeheartedly recommend that you work as a CE for a couple of years. That skill set will serve you VERY well if you later want to move to the ownership side. I can tell you with 100% certainty that I wish I had some CE background as someone on the development side.\n\nThe best CEs really are paid for not just solving math problems, but also handholding clients through entitlement work and maintaining relationships with local officials (building dept, etc). Remember: if you are a CE, you probably are smarter than most of your clients, including me.\n\nLots of high profile owners DO want to bring civil engineering in-house, so you\u2019ll have a logical way in.\n\nWhat you need to be aware of: as a CE, you will have zero exposure to market analysis, rents, and leasing the end product. That piece is what I do best, and it is what makes me successful. If you really want to do owner side, I\u2019d say 2-4 years as a CE and then you want to jump to a development analyst role, where you plug and chug on the market research side (you\u2019ll likely take a pay cut for this jump, it\u2019s easier than CE). Another 2-3 years doing that and you\u2019ll have a pretty unique combination of skill sets which makes you very attractive as a candidate to make the jump into development proper.", "replies": [{"id": "ht2qkcv", "text": "Thank you very much, this is a great explanation and I will take your advice. If developers value CE so much, why is their pay comparable to others in the industry and not higher?", "replies": [{"id": "ht2rdtn", "text": "Because most developers don\u2019t see civil engineering as anything other than a commodity. I\u2019m unusual.\n\nEven my boss HATES that I demand to work with particular civil engineers. He hates it, he thinks they cost too much. Bullshit. By paying the right civil I can go through entitlements 6 months faster.", "replies": [{"id": "ht320oq", "text": "Agree with this. A good CE saves millions.", "replies": [], "depth": 6}], "depth": 5}], "depth": 4}], "depth": 3}, {"id": "ht2x9nj", "text": "I'm transitioning from Structural Engineering to CRE Finance. If you already know what you're more interested in, I suggest going for it right away. A lot of variables in trying to get CE experience that can be leveraged into the business side: the type of design work, your involvement, the property type, and local physical and political design considerations may or may not directly translate to the work you actually want to do. \n\nYou're coming from a CE degree. Network with your friends in the program after graduation to build a strong relationship and you can geek out with them comparing notes. Or be involved in the engineering organizations like ASCE. I wouldn't recommend getting bogged down by daily engineering tasks just to better understand structural analysis to have engineering intuition on the business side. \n\nThere are other relevant skills you'll need on the business side that you won't find in engineering. Jump start into the career you want early. Start building network in that circle. GL!", "replies": [{"id": "ht2yxci", "text": "Thank you, how is your transition going from Structural Engineering to CRE finance?", "replies": [], "depth": 4}, {"id": "ht310qu", "text": "How many years did u work in SE and what were you able to bring with you that was most valuable to the business side?", "replies": [{"id": "ht4ww11", "text": "3 years excavation and building shoring design, then 2 years residential (wood framing). Currently transitioning into a more finance CRE role, doing interviews right now. I jumped to commercial brokerage for 1.5 years. The most relevant project was tenant improvement work that was way behind schedule. Then I was at a multifamily developer as a development analyst intern, in a different department from construction management. Both jobs already have contractors and engineering consultants that address design issues. Maybe I could comment on geotechnical issues or simple column and beam design concerns, but that's something already included in the due diligence process. Earlier stages from there, I could run it by my engineering friends from college but we wouldn't have much information given the lack of site inspection. You would also have to consider other components like utilities, HVAC, waterproofing, etc. What I'm trying to say is, you don't need to master engineering if you want your career focus to be on the finance/management side. And you can learn about the engineering basics in other ways, while dedicating most of your time on what you really want to focus on.", "replies": [], "depth": 5}], "depth": 4}], "depth": 3}, {"id": "ht36vq7", "text": "Im a former civil engineer on the owner side now.  While the pay isn\u2019t as good, the experience you would earn working as a civil engineer for the first 3-4 years will be invaluable in the long term. The only challenging part is the transition and into what part you transition.  Once you do, you can pretty much show through work how valuable your skill set is and skys the limit.", "replies": [{"id": "ht39szl", "text": "Would you recommend I work under a land developer as a civil engineer out of college? What discipline within CE do you think best translates over to the finance/investment/owner side of operations?\n\nAlso, how was your own transition? What part of the owner's side are you working on now?", "replies": [{"id": "ht3fkfk", "text": "I\u2019d work in land development for a civil engineering firm that specializes in it or a vertically integrated developer if you are able to get into one of those (most I\u2019ve seen have architecture in house but not civil).  \n\nWith most of the larger firms you want to try and go into the practice area which you hope you want to eventually transition whether that be commercial retail/industrial/Multifamily or single family development.  All have their nuances, but Multifamily and commercial retail are pretty similar.\n\nI basically lucked into finding what I wanted to do during an internship which was program commercial retail working on smaller ground up projects with small fee for service developers.  Given they were small, I got to interact with a lot of the players (attorneys, retail tenant, architect, signage company, etc) which allowed me to learn a lot.  My biggest challenge was I probably waited to long to transition to the client side but a lot of that was a function of the career market at the time and my wife getting an MBA.  I now work on the retail program side for a retailer which has been a blast.  This side is a lot more fun, you call more shots and direct development more than I did, but having that experience allows me to make better decisions entitlement wise on projects (thus basically doing the \u201csave 6 months on getting a permit\u201d while not solely relying on the engineer).", "replies": [], "depth": 5}], "depth": 4}, {"id": "ht3n38f", "text": "I would love to talk to you about how you, as an ex CE, screen for which CEs you use when entering a new market. I seem to wind up doing it by trial and error.", "replies": [], "depth": 4}], "depth": 3}], "depth": 2}], "depth": 1}, {"id": "ht2k961", "text": "Long term personal vs professional wealth management...", "replies": [{"id": "ht2m9bk", "text": "can you please elaborate on what you mean by this.", "replies": [], "depth": 2}], "depth": 1}, {"id": "ht2l7mt", "text": "I\u2019d say that\u2019s an overgeneralization / wouldn\u2019t be even close to my deciding factor on where to work. One actual perk of working at a company on the ownership side would be if they allow you to coinvest in their deals, but that\u2019s not universal.", "replies": [{"id": "ht2oae2", "text": "Ty", "replies": [], "depth": 2}], "depth": 1}, {"id": "ht2tibq", "text": "Participation / equity in deals is where the real money is. Nobody becomes rich off of a salary.", "replies": [], "depth": 1}, {"id": "ht31p63", "text": "From an owners perspective: Personally I find developers that work for a fee charge fees over everything and often are not accountable towards the end of a project. They have a grand vision but not the pockets to back it up and leave others holding the bag. There is no long term analysis and planning going into their work, it\u2019s more like flipping. \n\nIf someone is willing to have their own skin in the game (hold assets)I think it  says a lot in terms of quality and longevity/viability of a project. \n\nIn terms of sales, I don\u2019t know if it matters.", "replies": [{"id": "ht38lwo", "text": "Are you saying that developers who work for a fee often underestimate the cost of projects and consequently the investors end up having to pay more money?\n\nYour explanation is helpful. Thank you.", "replies": [{"id": "ht395f2", "text": "Yeah or they just try to maximize their fee for minimal work. Nothing is part of the deal it\u2019s a fee for this a fee for that, whereas if they own it they understand the costs that go along with their decisions.", "replies": [], "depth": 3}], "depth": 2}], "depth": 1}, {"id": "ht3ny18", "text": "It's not", "replies": [], "depth": 1}, {"id": "ht3rl9e", "text": "It depends on what you want to do. If you want to be in property management/operations, then the fact they are owners doesn\u2019t matter as much. If you want to work for a principal/owner then finding a shop that actually owns real estate matters a lot more.", "replies": [], "depth": 1}, {"id": "ht5sxdm", "text": "https://youtu.be/LSdQh-B3lJs", "replies": [], "depth": 1}]