Anyone here experience something like this before? Looking for 2nd opinion.
So I am currently looking to get into a space to sell boba. I have been looking at it for about 3 months. Everything has been going great until this past week after submitting to them an LOI to their agent I never got a counter because we had asked for comparables for the plaza just so we can get some data on sales. When asking around for these comparable the LL finds out that the ice cream shop in the same plaza also sells boba. I also know this. They had been selling boba since 2018. But honestly I thought it was utter shit and I am not being bias. Most places that don't specialize don't do a good job. It covered less than 10% of their sales. I know this because I know a girl who works their and was able to talk to the manager directly.  Its why I wanted to sell boba in this town anyways.  They are missing out on a real boba place. They had stopped selling boba in July. They even took down their sign it used to say Owl's Handcrafted Ice Cream+Tea. Now it just says Owl's Handcrafted Ice Cream. They don't even list boba on their website. I go and tell their agent about this and he comes back with telling me the owner wants to convert to 100% boba. The problem with this is I know that would not be an easy task because the guy makes his own ice cream in the back. And has all the big equipment in the back todo so. It also doesn't make any sense financially since their Ice cream is actually decent. But to each their own I guess. They also seem to do well since they have been there for 8 years now. I also went in there and asked the manager (who is not the owner) and she doesn't know about the owners plan to convert 100% into boba. It all seems like a ruse to me by the owner. The girl who works there also agrees with me and says that it is something he would do. The LL says he doesn't two of the same businesses in the same plaza. I am still willing to go in the space even if they are doing this because I am confident in my product. I have other locations up in Norcal and they also had other boba places right next door and they did just fine, but the LL won't allow it. I really want to be in this plaza. I don't think their agent is doing a good job explaining my perspective on this. Is it worth trying to ask if I can speak to the LL directly about this matter? I also want to speak to the owner of Owls, but I figure I try the LL first. The problem is its the only plaza in a 4 mile radius because it is in the middle of a bunch of gated communities. I cannot express in words how much I want to be in this spot. My agent has also seemed to throw in the towel on this one and is trying to look for other places now albeit further away and in a different community. Is this worth pursuing and talking to the LL directly or should I just give up and concede?
[{"id": "hn27j8y", "text": "Give up and concede. \n\nYour agent gave up because the owner or owners broker told him this isn\u2019t a use he\u2019s going to pursue. \n\nWhy would the LL sabotage his own existing Tenant that\u2019s been there for 8 years?\n\nHe\u2019s a stand up guy for turning you down.", "replies": [{"id": "hn28om6", "text": "Damn that sucks I am leaning towards this it's just a hard pill to swallow.  I have been looking into getting into the area for a while, thought this was a done deal because they didn't say anything the whole time I was interested. Seems like I was just strung along. Never saw it coming down to something like this.\n \nTo me it doesn't seem like sabotage as I don't think the owner will actually do this. I really do think he is just saying his is converting so that there isn't any competition for desert in that plaza. He really is just better off selling ice cream he is much better at it.\n Plus like I said, its not uncommon to see two boba places right next to each other these days", "replies": [{"id": "hn2c551", "text": "It isn\u2019t uncommon to see 2 places next to each other, but in 99.9% of these instances, they are separate Landlords. \n\nIn my experience, a good landlord won\u2019t pursue 2 of the same / similar uses even without the T having restrictive language.", "replies": [], "depth": 3}, {"id": "hn2d3jk", "text": "Even if he never sells boba again, you could be seen as competition for \"cold dessert\" dollars. And the LL isn't going to screw somebody who's been paying good rent for 8 years over the difference between boba and ice cream. You probably weren't strung along - nobody in this deal thought about this until the LL went to the ice cream guy for sales figures and the ice cream guy was like \"hey who's the new tenant\" and the LL was like \"boba tea, I think\" and ice cream guy was like \"hey man, I sell boba too\" and LL was like \"oh, I'm not gonna screw a good tenant,\" and told their agent to cancel.", "replies": [{"id": "hn2du3b", "text": "Okay I get that it looks like I would be screwing them over. Thats why I wanted to know if it was worth talking to the LL and maybe the owner of this ice cream shop to see if I could fit because my primarily focus is actually the tea drinks. \n\nAlso he isn't selling boba right now thats whats bothering me. He has a non-compete for ice cream but not boba. He spent the first 6 years not selling it and did fine, went back to not selling and seems to also be doing fine.", "replies": [{"id": "hn2gxqu", "text": "You can notify the Landlord of this.  However, their decision is their decision.  Simply because you bring this information to light does not require the Landlord to change their mind.", "replies": [], "depth": 5}], "depth": 4}], "depth": 3}, {"id": "hn2gp80", "text": "&gt; thought this was a done deal because they didn't say anything the whole time I was interested.\n\nIt is not a \"done deal\" until you have a ratified lease.  I've had leases fall through at the last moment.  A month ago a fast casual use backed out just prior to finalizing the lease.", "replies": [{"id": "hn2h9db", "text": "I think what I ment was on my end it was, I understand the other side might backout as well, just not for this reason. I also saw your edit I understand it sounds emotionally its just a little raw. Literally just happened a few hours ago. I will get over this. I just wanted to know if this was a unique scenario. I have never thought something like this could occur. But now I know. Businesss is business.", "replies": [], "depth": 4}], "depth": 3}], "depth": 2}], "depth": 1}, {"id": "hn2c9nj", "text": "Maybe a non- compete clause in ice cream shop lease that mentions tea. LL has to honor lease.", "replies": [{"id": "hn2chab", "text": "Thats also why I was asking if anybody seen this before. Their agent said their non-compete only features ice cream not tea. If a business were to convert would their non-compete follow?", "replies": [], "depth": 2}], "depth": 1}, {"id": "hn2dsgo", "text": "Holy shit you are clueless as to what a non compete clause is. Neither the established tenant who has good standing with the LL or the LL care if you think you know boba better, you are selling a product that the produce directly. They don't have to disclose that to you either, negotiations don't even start until you send that LOI and even then LOIs are toilet paper because they are non binding.", "replies": [{"id": "hn2f4ha", "text": "Honestly thats why I am asking I have never had to deal with something like this. I have been able to get next to Starbucks and other places that sell boba and don't have that as their main product. \nI also don't think boba and ice cream compete directly. Thats why I wanted to explain to them that my focus is going to on the tea aspect. \nI know LOIs are non-binding. My problem is that everyone said it was all good after looking at everyones contract even the Starbucks.", "replies": [{"id": "hn2fng8", "text": "Yeah I\u2019d suck it up and move on, if you push back they\u2019ll likely just see you as a nuisance.", "replies": [{"id": "hn2g2yn", "text": "thank you for your response I was leaning that way I was just hoping if there were any hail mary plays I could pull off. Like I said in another comment I haven't seen something like this before. I could understand if the place was a boba place in the beginning I have just never seen someone convert to something else while in this phase of looking for a spot", "replies": [{"id": "hn2kx5h", "text": "Sometimes it doesn\u2019t even have to be the same \u201citem\u201d for an objection, as an ice cream shop owner any dessert alternative could be seen as a threat to my sales. I\u2019ve seen a juice/smoothie shop get rejected for a plaza with a gym because the gym has a snack bar had made \u201cblended drinks\u201d but mostly sold protein shakes &amp; other random health bullshit.", "replies": [{"id": "hn2lhh1", "text": "Okay I've experienced that before. I can't go into this one spot with an LA Fitness next to it. That I can understand. But its already established from the get go that they had a juice bar from the beginning. Its not like in the middle of its existence they just started to sell juice, and then stopped selling juice. and then converting the whole gym into a juice place. Thats why it just weird and caught me off guard.", "replies": [], "depth": 6}], "depth": 5}], "depth": 4}], "depth": 3}], "depth": 2}], "depth": 1}, {"id": "hn2f04f", "text": "Landlord has right to decide which uses occupy their property  Regardless of your personal feelings, it is normal to not have competing businesses in the same center.  Especially one that's a niche.  It doesn't have to be exact product/service, even similar product/service is competition.\n\nAlso, the Landlord is taking a risk by leasing to you.  If you fail, it's wasted time and money on their side.  My office receives plenty of inquires on spaces.  We only lease to qualified Tenants and use type is taken into consideration (does it fit the location/area, risk of failure, etc).\n\nLastly, based on your post you are attempting to conduct business too personally.  Remove your emotion of out of it.  Business is just that - business.  Your personal feelings don't matter to the Landlord or their agent.  If a Landlord rejects your LOI, find another location or amend your terms to be more attractive.", "replies": [{"id": "hn2fda2", "text": "I understand that at the end of the day its all up to the LL. Thats why I am asking if its worth talking to him directly.", "replies": [{"id": "hn2izu6", "text": "Most Landlords do not want to speak with perspective Tenants if they have a broker.  It's the reason the broker is present.  They are the filter.  I oversee 80+ properties.  A prospective Tenant would have to go through two property managers to reach me, and I would not speak with a prospective Tenant simply because they requested it.  It would be an **annoyance**.", "replies": [{"id": "hn2jtpf", "text": "Right I understand that. It was actually my agent that suggested it I know its not common. She said I could give it one last shot. I was able to get the contact. Was just wondering if I should see it through.", "replies": [{"id": "hn2k8vp", "text": "Your agent should email the LL\u2019s broker / LL and schedule a conference call then. \n\nEither way, there is a zero % chance you will be pursuing this location. \n\nWhy is your ego so bruised? Lol move on!", "replies": [{"id": "hn2ktrq", "text": "Thats what she wants. all of us in a conference call together even the ice cream guy. But she said it was my call and I wasn't sure if it was worth it, clearly its not. \nI just got the news! Ill be better tomorrow I promise haha.", "replies": [], "depth": 6}, {"id": "hn2ml0h", "text": "After simmering it a bit more I think its just that I am so fixated on it being a bluff by the ice cream guy. I don't think hes going to do it. I have no qualms of him converting 100% its just why LOL", "replies": [], "depth": 6}], "depth": 5}], "depth": 4}], "depth": 3}], "depth": 2}], "depth": 1}, {"id": "hn35eh4", "text": "There are like 10 boba places in the area, and the whole point of owls is to have a non-starbucks place for the kids to hang out, the taste of the boba isn't the point as much as having a place to go for a snack.  You'd be directly competing with that and even if there isn't a non-compete, the landlord is doing the right thing by owl's.", "replies": [{"id": "hn3l1v2", "text": "Well they were onboard with the idea of me being there with Owls being there while selling ice cream. They were not when Owls said they were converting 100% to boba. Does it look like they will 100%? No. To me it looks like Owls is making a play to keep me out.", "replies": [{"id": "hn3pxht", "text": "It looks like the sales data request jiggered something loose.  I bet the landlord's manager and owl's talked it over, anticipated what the sales would be if your store came in and it probably made sense to say no.  I doubt Owl's alone could make the play. If you've got a consistent paying tenant, who says x will eat into my business, and won't bring new people to the plaza, that landlord can make the call to say no.", "replies": [], "depth": 3}], "depth": 2}], "depth": 1}, {"id": "hn913sw", "text": "This is extremely common with retail leases. I\u2019ve even see clauses stipulating minutiae like: \n\n* Only tenant A can sell freshly made salad. Any other tenant selling salads can only sell pre-made salads \n\n* Only tenant B can sell hot sandwiches. Cold sandwiches are okay. \n\n* Only tenant C can sell women\u2019s clothing and accessories, except if the accessories have a tourist theme. Really? \n\nAt the end of the day, the tenant and the LL agreed in a legally binding lease that they would be the exclusive bobo tea joint. Doesn\u2019t matter if their bobo tea is awful, and nothing you can do about it", "replies": [{"id": "hn9t9gb", "text": "I think I mentioned it in another comment. Yes they have an exclusive. But its for ice cream only. They added in boba to the menu 6 years in. And stopped last july. Nothing in their contract had any boba in it. It was an afterthought. Now the owner allegedly wants to convert 100% to boba. Now my question is does this transfer over?", "replies": [], "depth": 2}], "depth": 1}]