Asking 100k below asking
It seems properties in my area are tremendously overpriced. I have a 6 unit in mind that is asking for $450k... however the pro forma provided doesn’t include maintenance, vacancy, cap ex, landscaping, snow removal, management fees, etc. I’d have to offer 100k below asking for this to cash flow. 

Will I get laughed at by the agent and seller? Thoughts?
[{"id": "epk55d0", "text": "Offer $200k less and if they turn you down, tell them to quite playing fucking games with their stupid numbers", "replies": [], "depth": 1}, {"id": "epk8shz", "text": "Why don't you just bring that up as you present with your offer?\n\n&amp;#x200B;\n\n\"Basing this offer off of the lack of x, y, z in the pro forma... estimated numbers would more accurately represent the following offer.\"", "replies": [], "depth": 1}, {"id": "epk9jfl", "text": "Who cares if you get laughed at? They're the ones who can't underwrite.", "replies": [], "depth": 1}, {"id": "epkbi1r", "text": "They can laugh at you all they want. Are you all cash? Is it your money or someone elses? \n\nWhat are market comps per unit? If it is 75K, someone will buy it. If it is 60K, you are in the ballpark still. \n\nGood luck", "replies": [], "depth": 1}, {"id": "epkdblq", "text": "My thought is who cares?  Present your offer with the appropriate numbers that support your offer.  They will either already know their price is too high and negotiate or they will tell you to go away.  Either way, it is your money, and you need to stick to your numbers.  \n\nSince most areas are a hot market, they could have thrown out a high number to see what they get.  If they decline the offer, make the same offer in a month and then the next month and the month after that.", "replies": [], "depth": 1}, {"id": "epkfa1p", "text": "&gt; however the pro forma provided doesn\u2019t include maintenance, vacancy, cap ex, landscaping, snow removal, management fees, etc.  \n  \nYou won't get an honest pro forma on a 6 flat.   Make up your own, realtors just make up theirs.", "replies": [], "depth": 1}, {"id": "epkpz5l", "text": "They probably have no clue what the maths actually are on that unit. I talked with a business owner (tenant) yesterday and asked how their p&amp;l and balance sheet were looking year to date, he literally told me he didn\u2019t know what those are. Guy had owned the business for 30 years. He is obviously doing something right, but people don\u2019t seem to get how money/cash flow works.\n\nPoint is, bring in your numbers with your assumptions, accounting for all expenses, and if they laugh at you, know that they are the idiots.", "replies": [], "depth": 1}, {"id": "epl3tg0", "text": "List the above issues when you're making the offer. And casually mention that you have 3 more people interested in buying houses and that you can refer that agent to them in the future.\n\nThe agent will jump at the chance to earn extra and will probably get you a better deal.", "replies": [], "depth": 1}, {"id": "epl5ugo", "text": "Asking price is irrelevant. Offer a price that makes sense for you.", "replies": [], "depth": 1}, {"id": "epm8fx3", "text": "Many sellers have a problem... they don't understand negotiation and will not listen to reason. The agent says \"we should list it at $n, and they respond \"BUT I need room to negotiate and I don't want to sell for less than $n.\" The agent tries to explain reality and the seller nods and says \"list it for $100k more than $n so I don't get screwed.\" Then three months goes by with no offers and they say \"Why no offers Mr. Agent? You're not doing a good job.\"", "replies": [], "depth": 1}, {"id": "epnb0e8", "text": "If the property is competitive, go into it at asking, lock the deal up, and ask for a $100k reduction when you're removing contingencies.  Diligence is required to make your reduction supported to the Seller.\n\n&amp;#x200B;\n\nAlso, this way you've become the only one at the negotiating table instead of the Seller picking and choosing between other players.", "replies": [], "depth": 1}, {"id": "epnw1jf", "text": "I offered 375k with a 25k deposit. They declined and said they turned down a 405k offer. \n\nI\u2019ll try again in another month if it\u2019s still available.", "replies": [], "depth": 1}, {"id": "epxabrp", "text": "Why would you consider any number but market value?  Seems you are getting your panties twisted over foolish numbers.  Don't be such a novice.", "replies": [{"id": "epxi4yf", "text": "I am a novice \ud83d\ude02", "replies": [{"id": "epxrgb2", "text": "\nI have a bridge.", "replies": [{"id": "epxrv76", "text": "Send me the PL for the bridge", "replies": [{"id": "epxskrl", "text": "All you need to know is that it's above water.", "replies": [], "depth": 5}, {"id": "epxtfav", "text": "My point is that you should not offer on any property  that you don't  know the market value.  I'll accept your 20% off asking price offer  on my 40% over market listing any day.  I may go 10% off market if you can provide quick close or whatever else I need.  Know MARKET value and work from there.", "replies": [], "depth": 5}], "depth": 4}], "depth": 3}], "depth": 2}], "depth": 1}]