Appraisal/valuation career questions
Hi all, I am looking to get some info on appraisal/valuation. I have a lot of different answers to these questions already but it seems like there is a lot of variation out there in regards to peoples experience in these roles. Quick background on myself, I am a first year lending underwriting analyst with a focus on MF assets. I am considering going into appraisal/valuation as I think it reflects my interests and lifestyle/career goals more than lending.

1) What are the hours? Can you choose how many reports to take on at a time? I have heard that you can basically choose your workload. For example some weeks you can work 20 hours if you choose and some you can work 80 hours if you choose. Does this vary by office or is this standard? This is huge for me. I am someone that some weeks want to take a Friday off for example or have a more mellow week (if my workload allows), and some weeks I want to grind on end.

2) What is the pay structure? Is there any salary at all or is it based off how much you bill per month, based off of how many reports you complete? How much can you make as a first/second year analyst? And senior levels? I am currently making ~$75k all-in (including YE bonus), should I expect a significant pay cut if I went into appraisal?

3) Is this a career in which there's a future in? Any concerns of automation or tech taking over for appraisers?

4) How standard is WFH?

5) Anything else I should know at all about this career?

I thought I would have more than this but these 3 are my main questions. Thanks in advance
[{"id": "fooq2dr", "text": "It\u2019s my understanding jobs as an appraiser fall into one of three buckets:\n\n1. Independent contractor who runs/works at a small shop with all of the stresses and conveniences of running your own biz. \n\n2. Full-time appraiser on staff for a bigger company like CBRE. Lots of help from staff, but less flexibility with hours. \n\n3. In-house appraisal reviewer at a bank where your job is to correct other appraiser\u2019s work versus creating anything on your own.", "replies": [{"id": "fooqdhq", "text": "Thanks for this. I'd probably mainly be looking into working for a larger shop (CBRE, NKF, JLL, etc) first then who knows, go out on my own or a smaller shop with more responsibility. FWIW I also heard from someone at one of those larger shop that their hours were very flexible - exact situation I mentioned in my OP. Seems like there's a lot of variation in experience/culture in appraisal.", "replies": [{"id": "fooutf7", "text": "All these commercial appraisals are ordered through valuation companies. They are independent with no vested interest in the loan decision making. They use RE brokers who fills the role of what you dreamed at commercial brokerages. First American, Corelogic, Fidelity etc all have subsidiaries who have contractors work for them.  For commercial comps they offer as low as $50 for one of these shorter forms. This can take 4 hours to complete. Yes, they give you a couple of days....", "replies": [], "depth": 3}], "depth": 2}, {"id": "foosbqy", "text": "Exactly this. The most difficult part is getting in the business though. Unless you have an established connection or are able to lock in with one of the bigger firms. To gain your license there is roughly a 3-5 year apprenticeship required. It\u2019s difficult to obtain one because not everywhere is looking to take on these responsibilities as they are usually busy working long hours already. So not sure how much you make currently or experience but  if it\u2019s none then you will have to start at a very entry-level position more than likely\n\nAlso residential is pretty formulated especially because almost all sales are public record for comps.... commercial however is a whole different ball game. There is no tech or automation which threaten appraisal careers at least for the foreseeable future", "replies": [{"id": "foov6cy", "text": " [https://www.walkerdunlop.com/apprise/](https://www.walkerdunlop.com/apprise/)", "replies": [{"id": "foovlws", "text": "That pretty interesting, had never heard of it. I wonder if there is anything else out there for the rest of the industry as it\u2019s a pretty specific section of it.", "replies": [], "depth": 4}, {"id": "fop2tdh", "text": "I've seen one of their reports for a loan I worked on. Definitely not a fully automated software just from reading certain sections but it's interesting they state they are able to generate them within 5 business days.", "replies": [{"id": "foslrqa", "text": "Any thoughts on it versus some of the bigger firms? If you follow their news releases they are poaching folks away from the Colliers and JLL. Curious to know what some of the bigger appraiser see in it. Automation on the data collection and more time on the overall value conclusion?", "replies": [{"id": "fot5qyr", "text": "Not really seemed pretty similar. Can't point to why since it has been awhile but I do remember preferring other firms appraisals like Colliers, NKF, and CBRE. Could just be cause it was my first time seeing Apprise though and wasn't used to the layout.", "replies": [], "depth": 6}], "depth": 5}], "depth": 4}], "depth": 3}, {"id": "fop2lp2", "text": "In my OP I mention how much I currently make and my current job title. A lot of what I do translates into appraisal. A big part of my job is actually analyzing appraisal reports and site visits.", "replies": [], "depth": 3}], "depth": 2}], "depth": 1}, {"id": "foou626", "text": "Money is in the commercial properties. I have seen 100 pages of compiled local business data with photos comes with a $2500 tag price. \n\nFor residential the buyer paid $500 to include rush fees, the valuation company gets a generous cut with dead line on last minute notice. That can take a day to complete after you have done your investigations. So $300 for 2 days of work with no benefit.\n\nMost need a college degree and have to serve apprentice. In west coast, they come with 4 different classifications.\n\n* AT - Trainee License.\n* AL - Residential License.\n* AR - Certified Residential License.\n* AG - Certified General License.\n\nSome loans need FHA and VA.  I was told VA is so painful to acquire credential and touch to fill out. The entire state of Oregon has just 2 agents.\n\nIn your case expect to earn about $**20K** first year get your own E&amp;O insurance. Later not much more. These big brokerages use outside 3rd party service to avoid fraud from lenders.", "replies": [], "depth": 1}, {"id": "fophr0e", "text": "1. Hours depend on the shop you work for. It's generally a 9-5ish job. It doesn't necessarily need to be and depending on how old school your bosses are, you'll have flexibility in the early stages. Once fully licensed, the flexibility usually tends to significantly increase. If your shop is busy, you'll get to pick your workload. If they struggle to bring in work, you might have little choice. \n\n2. Pay structures vary. I have friends that have moved around some of the big firms, CBRE, JLL, Valbridge, Colliers. A straight percentage of jobs billed is one structure. Another is a salary draw. You get a steady pay check every 2 weeks and then every \"billing period\" be it one month, two months, etc you get a bonus of a percentage of work billed above and beyond base salary. Percentage cuts range. I've seen 30-55%. They increase as you receive licensing and higher credentials (ie a trainee may get 30-35%, a licensed appraiser 40-45%, get your MAI for 50-55%). \n\nIf you're starting out entry level with no experience, a salary of $30-40,000 could be likely. Then once training is over, you can go on production and your work output will determine your salary. $75k would be tough in the first couple years. You also need to drop a couple thousand in classes if your employer doesn't pay. They're about $600-1200 a piece and you need somewhere around 10 courses. Some employers reimburse for the courses after a certain period of time. Some give you paid time off to take them up to a certain number of courses per year. Others may require unpaid time off to attend in person or do online courses in free time. \n\n3. There's a future in appraisals. Residential is questionable. But commercial appraisals are still too necessary. There may be slow periods, especially if a shop if heavy into financing appraisals. If a shop has a healthy litigation arm of their appraisal clients, it tends to be recession proof. Tax appeals, eminent domain, pipeline easements, transit projects, bankruptcy issues all require appraisals at times. However, depending on your personality, the job can cause burn out. It can be tough to take a true vacation if all jobs were not complete before leaving. \n\n4. WFH varies by shop. Some really don't care, others are very against it. I think all the covid stuff going on will prove to many of the old school folks that WFH is possible and works better for many people. You'll still be required to actually go on site and comp inspections, once that fully gets going again. But I think any firms really pushing back against WFH will ease up on that in the future. \n\n5. Things to think about\nSome areas it can be tough to find firms taking on appraiser trainees without an in. Search for appraiser trainee or real estate analyst positions at the big firms. It's a costly investment to train a good appraiser. It's a big risk if you spend 3,000+ experience hours training them and then they leave. \n\nA good little chunk of the work relies on calling brokers and others in the industry or government officials to confirm sales or leases and get other information. Not all brokers are too keen on talking and some can be down right rude. But it's really crucial to confirm details of transactions. \n\nDifferent firms use different software, databases, and report writing programs/ templates. I'm not familiar with them all, but they're definitely a huge benefit vs. working as a one appraiser shop\n\nIf you want to move ahead, make sure to find out what kind of training program there is. Some firms have one on one training, others sort of throw you in.\n\nI think that answers most of your questions!", "replies": [{"id": "fosboav", "text": "Thank you! Very helpful.", "replies": [], "depth": 2}], "depth": 1}, {"id": "fopol19", "text": "So, I'm a commercial appraiser with about 30 years experience, this is an alt account because I don't want to dox my main one.\n\nI started as a residential appraiser with a private firm, got a commercial license, moved to a larger private firm, and am now with a national firm.\n\nHours are flexible.  That being said, the job is deadline driven.  More and more, clients want reports in 2 weeks, 10 days, or the dreaded ASAP.  At a private firm, you definitely get to take on the jobs you want, and can refuse to bid the ones you don't.  At a national firm, the company often bids the jobs out, and assigns them.  But even at my firm, there is minimal expectation that an appraiser will be at their desk 9-5.  More like, you might log in from home at 7 and be online until 10, then go out on an inspection, check in at the office from 1-4, go pick up your kids, and put in a couple hours after dinner.  If you don't have deadlines coming up, there's no reason you have to be tied to the office, but you do have to answer your emails promptly.\n\nPay is entirely fee split based.  As a trainee you might pull in 25% or so of the fees on jobs you bill, depending on your company.   I would be surprised if you were able to make $50k your first two years, until you are licensed.  Licensed, but supervised by a general cert, say 35%, and at a firm where your jobs could bill $20k per month you could get to your $75k level.  As an MAI at a private firm, I negotiated 60% fee splits, and billed around $20k per month, making around $150k annually.  At a national firm, I get a 45% split, but get benefits (401k matching, and health/life/dental insurance) as well as higher billings, aiming for $30k per month.\n\nThere is concern over automation for sure.  There is also concern over de minimus loan amounts, where banks just do their own internals, or BPOs where brokers write price opinions and charge a bunch less for reports that don't have all the requirements of appraisals.\n\nYou mean work from home?  It's very common, see my answer to #2 above.  At my private firm I might go to the office twice per month.  At the national firm as a supervisory appraiser I would try to go into the office every day to check in.  But we have transitioned into fully work from home in the current environment (obviously) and I see the firm realizing the benefit to this, in the form of lower overhead, and having appraisers do this much more often from now on.\n\nThere's a lot of other stuff, for instance client pressure is rampant, and so much of an appraisal report is meaningless bullshit, and the education is in a shambles as the Appraisal Institute is now leaving instruction and education up to the states with no national direction.  But you have to go through the Institute if you want the MAI, which is pretty much a requirement to work for a lot of clients out there.", "replies": [{"id": "fosbnat", "text": "Thanks for the info!!", "replies": [], "depth": 2}], "depth": 1}, {"id": "forfkny", "text": "I would say honestly your career will depend a LOT on who your supervisor or manager is. Some are very hands on and others will give you little to no feedback. Your hours as a trainee will very much entwine with your supervisors. If they pull all nighters before a due date, expect to do the same. \n\nIt\u2019s also extremely competitive at the larger companies, on par with brokerage in some ways. Just be aware. I have worked in valuations for 2 of the largest firms and did not expect it to be like that at all.\n\nETA feel free to PM me if you want, happy to answer questions more specifically", "replies": [{"id": "fosbm19", "text": "Damn haha there's definitely so much variation office by office. One person from CBRE I spoke to made it seem so chill and was able to make money on par with what I'm making now.", "replies": [{"id": "fosk78x", "text": "Definitely depends on your team! I know for fact certain cb valuation offices are more relaxed and others are more competitive", "replies": [], "depth": 3}], "depth": 2}], "depth": 1}, {"id": "fosmyb3", "text": "If not now, then only a matter of time. Firms have to learn to harness AI to get faster. Surprised the SF space isn't entirely automated at this point given how garbage those appraisals are.", "replies": [], "depth": 1}]