Little rant regarding trying to break into Commercial RE
So I've been working in finance at one of the largest AMs within their defined contribution team as a product development analyst for almost 4 years now. Decided that I wanted to pivot into Real Estate field maybe 2 years ago now while I was studying for my CFA level 3 exam. Tried getting an entry level position every since, had a great opp in chicago at a healthcare REIT but after 3 months and 7 rounds of interviews they decided to go with someone more senior... (go figure). 

Got into NYU Shack RE master's program and just finished my 1st full time semester while maintaining my full time position at my current company. Been trying to apply for internships/analyst programs/full time analyst positions etc for over a year now and nothing. I have some experience with failure and rejections, but at this point I have a feeling its really getting to me. 

The internships that I got were offering a $1000/month or fully unpaid. The interviews I have for a full time positions usually go up to the second round after which I usually get "thanks for your time but we are looking for someone with a bit experience in real estate". 

I cant take unpaid or $1000/month internships because I just moved to NYC and paying for school myself (don't want to ask parents for money as they have provided enough already throughout my life), and continuously being rejected for positions that say that prior RE experience isn't necessary but thats my #1 reason for rejections... 

How I am supposed get RE experience without having an opportunity to prove myself. I've taken multiple online modeling courses and can easily build dynamic proforma models by myself, and even if I don't understand something I am sure I can easily figure it out or at least someone can show me how to do it and I will learn it pretty fast. Been educating myself on RE for almost 2 years now, reading news, following different markets, enrolling into masters program, online courses, RE books you name it, but nothing. 

Extremely frustrating especially when I ask for some critical feedback and basically ask them to be mean so I can improve all they say is that I was great but other guy had 1 fucking year of RE experience under his belt. 

Should I just suck up and take an internship and take out loans to pay for my education? at least this way I will have something on my resume to show for. But I know that I can easily do whatever a company is asking of an entry level analyst... ughh 

Trying to network as well, but its a bit tough when you have nothing to offer back especially in RE where one hand washes the other etc. All i've gotten so far is "lets keep in touch when you finish school or get some experience"... like as,dgaslkjgdlkjashd 

&amp;#x200B;

Sorry for the grammar or mistakes, not even gonna give it a second read as I am just so annoyed...
[{"id": "ihsesjh", "text": "Take the internship while doing your full time job? Not sure if this is an option. If not, Keep applying, someone will give you a chance as long as you are transparent and being likeable.", "replies": [{"id": "ihsfurn", "text": "Thought about it but:\n\n1. I dont think I would be able to combine two jobs even if its a part time position since school is starting soon and I would love to give it all I have\n2. I even talked to my manager about becoming a part time employee and he is supper supportive of it which is amazing but my insurance cost will more than double while I will start earning like half of what I am earning now with basically the same amount of work, since its only me and my manager on our DC product team (there is a broader product team, but we are responsible for everything DC related) \n\nTook me a little to get back into my interviewing boots, but I feel like I have an answer to all the basic interview questions or I can answer anything that they throw at me. But once I hear the compensation all I can think about is that I wont be able to sustain myself financially. If I didnt have to pay for school I think I wouldve had enough to go through a couple of these low paying internships, but school is drying me up a bit", "replies": [], "depth": 2}], "depth": 1}, {"id": "ihsf0ps", "text": "Are you applying to anyone on the sell side? You have plenty of qualifications to land a role on a capital markets team at CBRE/JLL/Eastdil.", "replies": [{"id": "ihsgl4j", "text": "Yea I have been, but when they hear that my only experience is self education/internet/masters program their tone just changes and it feels like they just want to move on to the next candidate with RE experience... \n\nI even offer to send my market research that I've done for school and my pro forma models and tell that i am open for modeling tests (which ive done in the past, and never heard anything supper negative about it given that I self taught myself, they all said that I had some mistakes mostly due to lack of actual real world experience, but always heard that they saw my thinking and logic in trying to solve the problem) \n\nsigh, thanks for responding to my angry rant as I look for jobs to apply :)", "replies": [{"id": "ihsiusa", "text": "Start cold emailing anyone and everyone with a title of those three firms and you will get an interview.", "replies": [{"id": "iht2mig", "text": "I do that sometimes with little success, but could definitely do more of it", "replies": [{"id": "ihv3g3i", "text": "Came here to suggest this. With most large firms, you are first interviewing with HR or the recruiting coordinator etc. before you even get to the round where you're speaking with the Regional Manager or a specific team within a firm.\n\nA friend of mine from FL moved to NYC and had little to no network there. He had an entry-level position with one of the Big 4, and when he decided he wanted to move into a similar but different field, he picked 50 companies, went to LinkedIn, and either reached out there or emailed a couple of hundred people at those firms asking if they could buy them coffee or lunch for 30 minutes of their time. He said he had about a 10% response rate, and it took a few months, but he ended up getting a job with his top choice. \n\nMost email addresses are a variation of the persons name e.g. [john.smith@companyname.com](mailto:john.smith@companyname.com), [jsmith@companyname.com](mailto:jsmith@companyname.com), etc. - I would go back to those recruitment rejection letters and see what the email format was, go back to LinkedIn, find a name, plug it in, and you're off. \n\nWhen you're a name on a piece of paper, you have to do more than the rest to stand out - good luck out there, virtually every single one of us has been where you are now. With effort and a little bit of luck, you're going to be fine.", "replies": [], "depth": 5}], "depth": 4}], "depth": 3}, {"id": "ihuc5y9", "text": "Bro just fucking lie. No one gives a shit if it gets your foot in the door. I lied my way in and havent looked back.", "replies": [{"id": "ihwjzv4", "text": "its compelling but I feel like the risks of getting caught outweigh the benefits, at least to me personally", "replies": [{"id": "ii21hmd", "text": "I\u2019m dumb as motherf**** about all this real estate nonsense and stumbled into your post down a Reddit hole. \n\n\nWhat is the risk of getting caught?", "replies": [], "depth": 5}], "depth": 4}], "depth": 3}], "depth": 2}], "depth": 1}, {"id": "ihshf6b", "text": "I was in a very similar position a few years back, working  and going through the same program. My only advice is to keep networking. Schedule coffee meet ups with alumni from Shack, cold email the teams/companies you are targeting, get involved in competitions and showcase this work during interviews. Keep reading and stay informed on recent market trends. Leverage LinkedIn to set up informational meetings and leverage those contacts for open job listings. \n\nWhat plays against you right now is that employers see you with no relevant experience and know that you will be attending school while on the job. This creates the question of whether you can handle the workload while attending school part time. You\u2019re doing it now, but you\u2019re also switching careers. As an analyst/associate, especially on the equity side (REITS, acquisitions), your hours will be long. I personally wouldn\u2019t hire someone doing a master\u2019s for a full time job without any industry experience. Not impossible but definitely not ideal. \n\nOnce you complete the masters, or close to completing it (last semester), it will be much easier to get over this \u201cno experience\u201d hurdle. Especially if you\u2019re doing the things I mentioned above. I was able to land a full time job once a i graduated from the program without quitting my full time job (job wasn\u2019t in RE but at a financial service company) working in CMBS which later translated in an opportunity in RE Development. Don\u2019t give up and leverage Shack to its fullest. You\u2019re just one semester in.", "replies": [{"id": "ihszxvt", "text": "Thanks man, I see your point, but I feel pretty confident that I could combine those two as I\u2019ve been studying for the CFA my past, jez, almost 3 years now and now successful finished my first full time semester. Obviously I wouldn\u2019t be able to stay in the office till 9pm as evening classes star at 7/7:30, but I see your point.", "replies": [{"id": "iht7s1r", "text": "i read that you recently moved to nyc. i think that nyc probably has the most competition/desirability for recent college grads. if i was you i would try to apply to these firms at one of their smaller locations, a city that isnt so competitive.", "replies": [{"id": "ihwk7de", "text": "its an interesting point, depending on the commute will def try it", "replies": [], "depth": 4}], "depth": 3}], "depth": 2}], "depth": 1}, {"id": "ihslw74", "text": "You're in school-- take advantage of the student rates to CCIM AND ULI.   They won't necessarily get you a job, but they're solid communities with genuine interest in CRE. \n\nAlso because ANY knowledge is good knowledge for you right now, join Bigger Pockets (free) and find an REIA in your area to join.  Just absorb everything you can. \n\nPM me if you want and we'll catch up on LinkedIn.   Your frustrations are really no different from what mine were.  I also have a few small sites I'm babying in NYC. Up to you.", "replies": [{"id": "ihszm6z", "text": "Thank you, I\u2019ve been pushing myself to attend as many events as I can, but been busy with work and before summer started I was headed straight to school everyday except fridays so missed out on a good amount. Even took a day off in June to volunteer at a NJ RE Summit, which was absolutely incredible, felt a bit out of place trying to talk to the big boys out there with nothing to offer but my passion and hard working attitude. Still got to exchange contacts with a few folks who told me to keep in touch once I get closer to graduating. Haven\u2019t looked into CCIM and ULI, but will definitely do now.", "replies": [], "depth": 2}], "depth": 1}, {"id": "ihsnwlo", "text": "Patience friend. I was sorta in your shoes, was a city planner &amp; wanted to transition into RE. Got into NYU Schack like yourself, only have 3 more classes. Was grinding my ASS off working full time, Schack classes that I had to travel to the city for, etc etc. finally landed a great gig this past January.\n\nWhat I can say is, really apply your current background &amp; skill sets however you can to RE when applying &amp; interviewing. I didn\u2019t know Jack shit about finance but I used my planning background as a way to sell my skills. As well as networking your ass off of course (also join all the NYU Schack social media groups you can, they post lots of job opportunities you might not know are out there).\n\nKeep going, you\u2019ll land something eventually &amp; look back at this time &amp; laugh about it. PM me if you ever want to chat!", "replies": [{"id": "ihsyzrg", "text": "Thank you, I know something will come along at the right time, just felt like venting a bit with a sub that probably had similar experience getting into RE. I am in a bunch of shack chats, and they do post job opps which is amazing, but a good chuck of them is like 2+ years, so I just dream haha", "replies": [], "depth": 2}], "depth": 1}, {"id": "ihsv9k7", "text": "Can you list the last handful of positions you interviewed for as far as job title?  How your skills transfer to different things and how people will view you is broad in \"CRE\".  It would help a lot to understand more.", "replies": [{"id": "iht137x", "text": "I\u2019ve honestly been applying to all sorts of positions and shops in different asset classes. My ultimate goal is to get into multifamily, but at the moment I would cherish any experience. Last one that I just got rejected from was a RE advisory firm, applied for Capital Markets Associate. before that there was an amazing analyst program at Ackman-Ziff which is designed to be a 12 month intensive training program, but they were offering a minimum wage, which unfortunately I can\u2019t do. Had interviews for an asset management analyst/associate positions for shops doing affordable house, student housing and multi. Acquisition analyst roles at boutique shops doing everything from repurposing hotels/motels into multi, which was very cool and was just what I wanted to do, but got ghosted after 2.5 months of interviews, to senior housing and retail.", "replies": [{"id": "ihtkmhj", "text": "I\u2019d have taken that job at AZ if I were you - hardest part is getting your foot in the door.", "replies": [{"id": "ihwl42p", "text": "I wish I could, the way they described the program would be ideal for someone like me, but swapping my 90k+ salary for $1000/month isnt financially feasible to me right now. If they at least offered 60k, i wouldve taken it in a blink of an eye", "replies": [{"id": "ihxrkzb", "text": "Does Schack not have OCR\u2026? Not sure how AZ came in with such a low ball offer, they generally comp junior people out well", "replies": [{"id": "ihztox6", "text": "whats OCR? This is also their training analyst program where they rotate you through multiple teams and throw a bunch of shit at you in the course of 12 months. After the program is done they either hire you or recommend to someone if they do not have space. As the person who I talked to described, the program is designed to be like a complimentary program that goes along with the shack program. But I am still a bit shocked that they pay minimum wage during it, because I have a feeling that you need to have money in order to be able to survive the living expenses alone, because that 1k/month doesnt cover shit in this city", "replies": [{"id": "ii0r2ep", "text": "Yeah, that\u2019s brutal. Most of my MBA classmates that come from non-RE backgrounds managed to get associate-level internships - interesting your program isn\u2019t the same", "replies": [], "depth": 7}], "depth": 6}], "depth": 5}], "depth": 4}], "depth": 3}], "depth": 2}, {"id": "ihtkhjf", "text": "Sure:\n- Summer Associate, Investments (REPE shop where I\u2019m interning)\n- Summer Associate, Debt Investments (pension investor)\n- Analyst, Investments and Development (REPE, had an offer from these guys and turned down to go to bschool)\n\nIn all 3 cases, I had a relationship with someone in the group and got referred from there. ~50% of my last job was underwriting RE deals, so YMMV.", "replies": [], "depth": 2}], "depth": 1}, {"id": "ihsxfs7", "text": "Have you joined ULI and NAIOP and gone to events to network? A lot of these places it\u2019s about meeting the right person who either has a job or has heard of an opening.", "replies": [{"id": "iht14t1", "text": "Haven\u2019t done those, but will definitely look into it!", "replies": [{"id": "ihtjvf8", "text": "\u201cIt\u2019s not what you know, it\u2019s who you know\u201d embodies real estate. Applying for jobs blindly is a losing man\u2019s game.", "replies": [], "depth": 3}], "depth": 2}], "depth": 1}, {"id": "ihsxy57", "text": "I work at a RE PE Fund. I started right out of college but had previous finance and real estate experience. Honestly, you\u2019ll learn everything important on the job, having previous RE experience helps but only slightly with the learning curve", "replies": [{"id": "iht271a", "text": "That\u2019s how I feel and think about it too, it\u2019s just that first RE experience that opens many doors. Had a friend who was a credit analyst at a small/mid size bank earning 60k, told him that he could easily land a job that would double if not more in NY just because he had the experience (he just moved like 8 months ago). But he was iffy about it, finally got him to apply to a bunch of stuff, landed a job at one of the CMBS rating agencies that more than doubled his base salary, and that\u2019s without his bonus. Didn\u2019t even take him a month lol\n\nHe just recommended me to his HR in case something opens up, so fingers crossed", "replies": [{"id": "ii3euae", "text": "If you\u2019re interested in the credit side, my company\u2019s lending fund is always looking for people. I can put you in touch with them", "replies": [], "depth": 3}], "depth": 2}], "depth": 1}, {"id": "ihsytpt", "text": "I put out a job post for a part time analyst and got over 50 applicants for my one position, some with years or decades of experience. Many of us, myself included, started in RE 100% commission and have had to fight tooth and nail for business.\n\nLots of people want the jobs from what I\u2019ve seen. And turnover is high. I don\u2019t want to train someone who will quit in a year\u2026", "replies": [], "depth": 1}, {"id": "iht31us", "text": "Thanks for all the replies, feels good to hear other ideas and similar situations that people had in their careers", "replies": [], "depth": 1}, {"id": "iht48j7", "text": "CRE is an old boys club. Your network/connections are 10x more valuable than any certificate or degree.", "replies": [{"id": "ihwk92i", "text": "cant agree more", "replies": [], "depth": 2}], "depth": 1}, {"id": "iht664e", "text": "Join ULI and CREFC. Both have mentor programs that I found beneficial.", "replies": [], "depth": 1}, {"id": "ihucmm2", "text": "Instead of working in CRE, invest in CRE! More fun anyways.", "replies": [{"id": "ihwkl55", "text": "haha, keep thinking about it, that instead of paying for school I couldve bought a rental", "replies": [], "depth": 2}], "depth": 1}, {"id": "ihvpc80", "text": "CRE is the ultimate insular club, and I say this as someone who has been in it for a long time.\n\nIf you\u2019re trying to get into the industry and you don\u2019t know \u201cthe guy,\u201d it is incredibly challenging to get in.\n\nYour best shot is to network like a madman until something lands \u2014 HR will weed you out because you have no experience, so you need \u201cthe guy\u201d to overrule HR. You just do.", "replies": [], "depth": 1}, {"id": "ii2rawa", "text": "If your parents can help you and want to, let them and take the lame internship for a few months. Then you will have the thing you lack. Many, many young people are able to do the cre thing because of connected parents or parents providing some financial support. Use all the advantages you can.", "replies": [], "depth": 1}, {"id": "iid025w", "text": "Hate to break it to you but transitioning you're going to take a big hit on salary, period. I transitioned from leasing to the acquisitions side and went through NYU shack. I started school part time and switched to full time as I realized I needed internships/experience to transition. Was the best decision I made. Landed my first internship through a classmate at a top company who needed help on the leasing side and taught me the underwriting portion. Second internship had alumnis from my first internship that got me in. First full time job I landed from a recommendation from my second internship at a top developer in NYC. \n\nAll internships were min wage and I was lucky enough to be able to do it, but I would NOT graduate schack without doing an internship, I've seen lots of fellow colleagues expect the degree to get them the job and fell flat on their face. Make sacrifices other ways to make sure you can get solid internships that give you real experience, regardless of what it pays.", "replies": [], "depth": 1}]