Looking to transition into Real Estate Valuation . Have a few questions.
 I am currently at auditor at a bank. Have six years of experience and soon to be CPA, but looking to transition into RE Finance/Valution.

I have accounting and finance degrees so am familair with basic modeling/forecasting concepts, but am a bit rusty and do not have any professional experience.

Have family in RE so understand basic concepts like NOI, Cap Rate, etc

Am based in the Southeast

Had a few questions

* How are the Big Four RE Valuation jobs viewed? Starting associate/experienced associate salary?
* Any other positons/companies I should be targeting? (Considering JLL, CBRE, Kroll)
* Going to take a RE finance course online. Anything else I should brush up on?
* Any other tips?

Thanks
[{"id": "i6nsxzs", "text": "Look in to property tax work", "replies": [{"id": "i6ntboq", "text": "Why tax over valuation?", "replies": [{"id": "i6oapx0", "text": "I do property tax appeals and that sprung from an income tax business clientele list.. at first mostly residential, but then I got specialized training from various organizations (primarily [ipt.org](https://ipt.org)) and started a nice little business that is primarily commercial real estate (shopping centers, marinas, apartment buildings, nursing homes, etc) and it dovetails with my mortgage business very nicely. you get to use your valuation skills but also advocate for a client, kind of like a lawyer but there are many settings where you do not need to be a lawyer to do assessment appeal work. once you save a property owner some money on their tax, any subsequent convos about x y or z are pretty easy to have. their guard isnt up anymore and more opportunities present themselves", "replies": [], "depth": 3}], "depth": 2}], "depth": 1}, {"id": "i6nvj7t", "text": "Big 4 is a good starting role, like audit/tax the advisory group is an up-or-out organization. Your background (especially if you are at a larger bank) is likely credible enough to get several interviews with the likes of CBRE, Cushman, and NKF. I assume you would walk in with a CPA certificate and not license, if the latter ask up front how they would view this. You'll want to check the path to MAI which is needed to progress in the industry, however isn't something you get without experience. I'd advise against the body shops (appraisal review like Situs etc) although they could be great practice interviews.", "replies": [{"id": "i6o5erv", "text": "Appreciate the insight\n\nHow do JLL/CBRE/Cushman compare to big four?\n\nIs valuation more lucrative than traditional RE Financial Analyst type of positions?", "replies": [{"id": "i70mti9", "text": "For valuation I'd say these firms have less client conflict (can't usually value something the firm audits or does taxes on) and a better chance for upward mobility based on production - throw NKF into this mix as well. Depending on the specific advisory practice big-4 may provide better exposure to a variety of clients and at through the mid-level less emphasis on business development. \n\nComparing to a financial analyst is apples-oranges if you mean fund or REPE - comp is totally dependent on the investors/firm.", "replies": [], "depth": 3}], "depth": 2}], "depth": 1}, {"id": "i6o7dco", "text": "If you want to go into valuation, you need to get your MAI license to advance your career.  Otherwise, you'll end up doing work on behalf of an MAI.  Many valuation firms have non-MAIs perform most of the grunt work and the MAI directs their work/signs off/interfaces with the client.  \n\nMAI courses/certification will be a breeze compared to CPA.  In addition to valuation firms, investment firms/banks/insurance companies also have in house valuation groups.  As for RE valuation firms, C&amp;W and CBRE are the biggest while JLL probably comes in a distant 3rd.  There may be some good small/regional valuation firms that you might look into to get your feet wet and gain experience.  In all my years in commercial real estate, I've never dealt with PWC, KPMG, EY, Deloitte on RE valuations.", "replies": [{"id": "i6ob4tv", "text": "Would you recommend someone starting in valuation or a more traditional RE financial analyst (forecasting, budgeting, etc) type of role?", "replies": [{"id": "i6oourz", "text": "It depends on what direction you want to go ...where you want to end up (ignoring pay).\n\nIf you're the type who enjoy accounting/auditing, valuation work might be more inline.  However, valuation plays a small part in CRE as there are a whole slew of things that also needs to be taken into account (sorry for the pun).  \n\nFrom my observation, people who start out in valuations/appraisals tend to stick with it.  I guess part of it is the work attracts certain type of people/personality to the segment.  However, some do move on to AM or acquisitions.\n\nWith an accounting background (assuming real estate accounting experience), you should easily be able to get into the debt as well as the equity side of the business.  I've done both an prefer equity because I found it more fun &amp; interesting.", "replies": [{"id": "i6opprg", "text": "Sorry for my ignorance, but could elaborate on what you mean by equity?\n\nAnalyzing potential properties and allocating capital?", "replies": [{"id": "i6oz24p", "text": "Debt: Lending (i.e. single asset, portfolio, CMBS, etc)\n\nEquity: Development/Acquisitions", "replies": [{"id": "i6prrm5", "text": "Gotcha, maybe that would better suit me\n\nIdeally would like to be a developer or GP down the road", "replies": [{"id": "i6smrx6", "text": "Have you explored REPE (Carlyle, Apollo, Greystone etc)?  As others have said, this would be the best way to make your final step to a GP/operator.", "replies": [{"id": "i6sp9y3", "text": "I have, but know those jobs are very competitive and there are many of them where i\u2019m located (Charlotte)\n\nWill try for them but not banking on it", "replies": [], "depth": 8}], "depth": 7}], "depth": 6}], "depth": 5}], "depth": 4}], "depth": 3}], "depth": 2}, {"id": "i6ocdyx", "text": "Don't forget Newmark. They're up to 600 employees in valuation.", "replies": [], "depth": 2}], "depth": 1}, {"id": "i6oguk6", "text": "If you are looking to build modeling skills and to gain a better understanding of different metrics and how to format a proforma, I would recommend Udemy\u2019s Real Estate Valuation Course. It\u2019s always on sale for around $20, and if you the final proforma they teach you multiple times, you\u2019ll have a strong foundation of modeling skills", "replies": [], "depth": 1}, {"id": "i6ojxpl", "text": "I used to work for KPMGs real estate valuation group. It is a great way to get your foot in the door and work on large institutional engagements with Fortune 500 companies. The pay is very competitive but it is a grind, Atleast it was in NYC. It is also a lot of accounting exercises like PPAs and audit assists as opposed to straight valuation work but good exposure and partners make great money if you stick it out. I eventually transitioned to an investment management firm doing in house valuation as I wanted to be closer to the real estate and do less accounting but I credit my kpmg experience with where I am today. Highly recommend it as a starting point in commercial real estate.", "replies": [{"id": "i6okueu", "text": "That\u2019s man appreciate the insight", "replies": [{"id": "i6qt4z8", "text": "To add to this thread there is also Morning Star that issues opinions on CMBS securities and there are auditors that review mortgage loan portfolios to ensure they follow guidelines. These auditors and credit rating agencies were part of the reason for the 2008 financial crisis rating junk mortgages as investment grade \nThis does not require an MAI license. This could be a more lateral move for you with your CPA / auditing experience.", "replies": [], "depth": 3}], "depth": 2}, {"id": "ia9lo2j", "text": "Was it all office work or did you guys walk properties?", "replies": [], "depth": 2}], "depth": 1}, {"id": "i6p67na", "text": "I suggest learning a bit about capital markets. RE valuation is meaningless without capital lending consideration. For example, know terms like DSCR, LTV, cash-on-cash, difference between debt and equity, capital stack, limited partner, general partner, recourse, non-recourse, mezzanine, etc. And also know your IRR and NPV formulas. Once you learn all of that you'll be far ahead of just running models on a spreadsheet; you'll be able to make meaningful adjustments to your models that make sense, and not only that, you'll be able to advise people about making educated investment decisions.", "replies": [{"id": "i6pa5vu", "text": "Appreciate the insight", "replies": [], "depth": 2}], "depth": 1}, {"id": "i6pnp6g", "text": "My 2 cents as a former appraiser (5-years). I worked at a boutique valuation firm that handled all Southern California markets. I started straight out of college and it was a great introductory to commercial real estate. The first thing you should identify is if the job fits your personality and what you hope to get out of your career. You will be grinding for awhile to achieve your Certified License and then will need MAI certification if you want to advance further. At some point you will end up on a split-fee pay structure (pay being X% of the appraisal fee). The game in valuation is trying to bust out as many appraisal reports as possible to increase your pay (before obtaining the MAI and overseeing appraiser's work). In my experience, this resulted in figuring out how many hours I can stay in front of the computer. \n\nIn valuation you don't spend as much time networking or working with tons of other professionals/owners in the business. This tends to favor people that are generally more introverted and don't want to chase deals like many other CRE professionals, enjoys spending countless hours alone in front of a computer screen.\n\nAs far as salary, I would expect most firms to start at a small salary ($40-60k depending on market) until you are able to write reports on your own then go to Split-Fee.\n\nLastly, main similarity between most CRE careers: your mentor. A good mentor can also make or break your experience in valuation. Spend time looking into the main shops in your area, including local/regional firms. Talk to as many appraiser's and valuation advisory professionals as possible.\n\nI value my experience in valuation but ultimately left and am now starting from the ground up in Debt Advisory. Feel free to DM me if you have any specific questions. Will gladly help if I can.", "replies": [], "depth": 1}, {"id": "i6q9gy1", "text": "With 6 years of experience and a CPA, getting into real estate valuation seems like a step backwards.  I'd look into using the CPA to get a ASA designation in business valuation - CPA should get you more than halfway there, and business valuation makes more money than real estate valuation.", "replies": [{"id": "i6qf7rv", "text": "Haven\u2019t considered that\n\nWould I need to get the cert  before having a good shot at an entry level val job?", "replies": [{"id": "i6qqv15", "text": "As someone who did commercial appraisal for 7 years, you are insanely over qualified to get an entry level appraisal job.  Entry level appraisal is legit just a college degree and 0 experience.  You have 6 years of experience and a CPA.  Look up the ASA website, you can get a real estate valuation designation fairly easily with the CPA (I think) as well, but as someone in the industry, it sounds like you're taking 2 steps back and are going to be making $80k+ less than you should be.  Business value designation from the ASA and also the real estate one might be the best of both worlds, but business valuation is much, much, much more money, and none of the state license headaches of appraisal.\n\nEdit to say I don't think you need the ASA to get an entry level job in either business or real estate valuation, but I think it's a quick get with the CPA, and will basically get you qualified to a mid-career level without a ton of extra work.\n\nhttps://www.appraisers.org/credentials/business-valuation/accreditation-guides-forms-checklists\n\nClick the BV accreditation guide for info.", "replies": [{"id": "igy6ney", "text": "Can you get into ASA-BV as a General Appraiser? I don't have any accounting experience but I'm interested in getting into business valuation. TIA! :)", "replies": [], "depth": 4}], "depth": 3}], "depth": 2}, {"id": "i6qqt1i", "text": "As a former certified appraiser, I agree that valuation is a huge step down. Use your cpa to do something cre related rather than be a valuation guy. Appraisal is like writing (cert gen or trainee) or reviewing/grading (MAI) high school term papers for the rest of your life. \nIve heard others describe the career progression of an appraiser like that of an accountant with the MAI being the analog of the CPA. Its not true. MAI is mickey mouse compared and appraisal only teaches you do so one specific thing. I know so many old MAIs that hate their jobs but have too much invested to quit. I would imagine a CPA would be useable in 10x the employment scenarios that a CPA would.\nI write so much because as a former cg and close to mai, id take a cpa over mai 8 days a week to be the foundation of my career. You can easily do something cre related in accounting and learn what you want to know. Hang your shingle, get an sba loan and dip your toes into cre ownership. Get on with an accounting team that deals with cre portfolios and engage all the appraisers who keep racing to the bottom on fees. But dont become a valuation guy.", "replies": [], "depth": 2}], "depth": 1}, {"id": "i6qdgk9", "text": "I worked with one of Cushman's capital markets teams doing BPOs for a year.  It was fine.  \n\nI missed the boutique   appraisal firm I had been at previously though. I did valuations of much more interesting properties when working with the appraisal firm because my boss specialized in large retail   properties and we got the chance to value some really cool lifestyle centers, regional malls, and spec mixed use properties. I had way more opportunities to learn and grow at the smaller firm.  It was really long hours with tight deadlines,  but really interesting work. \n\nI ended up burning out in my late 20s at Cushman and now do something totally unrelated to real estate. The work was VERY repetitive there. My team sold mostly class A/B office and light industrial, which is easy to model, but not as fun to analyze as a green built mixed use town center. It was also too many hours and too much of a boys club for me, but folks on my team who were at the same level as I was then and stayed seem to be doing well.\n\nI guess it really depends on what your longterm goals are as to what's the right fit.", "replies": [{"id": "i6r2b6q", "text": "How was the pay at cushmn?", "replies": [{"id": "i6rzb9f", "text": "It's been ten years since I worked there,  but I remember it being plenty to live on. I bought my first brand new car working for them.", "replies": [], "depth": 3}], "depth": 2}], "depth": 1}, {"id": "i6uspyh", "text": "Valuations vs finance are very different at the brokerage firms you mentioned. Valuations = appraisers, CRE finance = debt, equity sales.", "replies": [{"id": "i6uswf5", "text": "What path will give you better exit opportunists?", "replies": [], "depth": 2}], "depth": 1}]