I Think I Want to Become a Developer. Am I on the Right Track?
I constantly find myself just looking at property for the fun of it and saying "Wow, I think this would a good spot to build X" with X being a car wash, storage facility, apartments, SFH development, retail space, mixed use space, etc. Some of those I have an interest in personally owning and running the business, others I don't. I'm someone who knows a little about a lot, like virtually anything. But, I also really enjoy learning more about specific things. I like change, I like learning, I like challenges. I feel like I'd become bored of just building a car wash empire or owning 1,000 apartment units. I'm a thinker, an ideas guy. I enjoy meeting new people, hearing their story, and learning about what they do. I think I want to become a developer. And I have questions, and I'd appreciate any insight and answers I can get.

By trade, I'm a civil engineer with some experience in site design and a bit of project engineer work. This has to give me a leg up over someone that is clueless about this stuff, right?

In my head, I think I have the process figured out this much: Pick a plot of land. Draft up a concept plan. Come up with the financials (cost to build it, run it, revenue, profit, etc). Package it all into a business plan.

Here's where it gets cloudy for me: Who do I go to once all that is done? Do I go to someone in the respective industry and say, "Hey, you do XYZ and here's an opportunity to grow your portfolio"? Do I go to investors and say, "Hey, I need money to build this?" Then find a buyer once funding is secured? I imagine it varies between commercial and residential development. What's the differences between the two in this stage? Do actual preliminary plans and permitting need handled before I go looking for money?

And once funding is raised, I think I'm fairly confident in what happens next. Get the construction plans made. Construction begins. Do I need to play the role of GC? Do I need to hire a GC? Is it dependent what each developer wants to get involved in?
[{"id": "hjbw15o", "text": "Wow.", "replies": [{"id": "hjbwdnm", "text": "Bad wow, good wow, or just wow wow?", "replies": [{"id": "hjc1479", "text": "Naive wow", "replies": [{"id": "hjd6gvj", "text": "Amazing cringe material though.", "replies": [], "depth": 4}], "depth": 3}, {"id": "hjcbl9j", "text": "Bad lol.", "replies": [], "depth": 3}], "depth": 2}], "depth": 1}, {"id": "hjbx037", "text": "I don't want to be rude, but you might want to learn a little bit more about urban planning prior to pursuing this avenue. There's like... a significant amount of knowledge you need to pick up prior to even considering this route. There are legitimately too many questions asked, and unasked, in this post to even begin responding to.", "replies": [{"id": "hjbyj5k", "text": "Genuinely curious what good reading about urban planning will do me, aside from it just generally being more knowledge. At this point my interest lies in development in suburban and semi-rural areas. And it isn't as if I haven't been exposed to a little bit on the subject.\n\nAnd you're correct, I'm probably asking way too much but also not the right questions. Almost everything that turns up in Google searches for the questions I'm asking is just helicopter level answers that are stating the obvious. It's like they're written by people who can regurgitate a textbook rather than actually have done anything themselves. That's why I'm here asking these questions.\n\nI'm also looking into finding a developer local to me who is willing to take the time to either sit down with me or have a phone call. I don't see any of these questions as particularly stupid, and I don't ever think there really is ever such thing as a stupid question when wondering about something beyond an elementary school level. There's a portion of the development puzzle that I admittedly have no understanding of and that's what I'm trying to at least get a basic understanding of beyond canned responses.", "replies": [{"id": "hjbz6vh", "text": "I'm not talking about urban planning theory, but practice. Urban planning determines where an asset can be constructed, how it can be constructed, and what it may contain. Even in suburban or semi-rural areas (which can have incredibly strict and unchanging zoning) you will face substantial policy and political barriers to development. Every township, municipality, and county will have a slightly unique approvals process, a slightly unique land-use planning process, a slightly unique way of organizing master community plans/official plans vs zoning, and a unique political process for how entitlements will occur. Nowhere in your post was any of this really even asked so I'm not sure why you think reading about urban planning would just be \"more knowledge\" and not an entire field of practice you've overlooked.", "replies": [{"id": "hjbzjlb", "text": "I mean, a huge part of site design is the permitting. I have had a role in that and my professional life as a civil engineer. I understand everything you just said, nothing there is new to me. I'm not trying to be patronizing here, but it seems like you aren't intimately familiar with site design on the engineering side.", "replies": [{"id": "hjc24gz", "text": "Oh don't worry about being patronizing. You're being no more patronizing than every other over-confident engineer who thinks they've got this industry all figured out. Lots of luck on your builds!", "replies": [{"id": "hjc374y", "text": "So how many projects have you been the developer on?", "replies": [{"id": "hjc5h1k", "text": "God gave you two ears and one mouth.\n\nThat's a design standard in well over 90% of the life on this planet. \n\nYou should give some *strong* consideration as to why that might be.", "replies": [{"id": "hjc5rs1", "text": "I say that myself all the time. That's why I'm asking questions and listening for answers", "replies": [{"id": "hjc67wt", "text": "You may want to read the comments again, as well as your responses...as if you had come across them by chance.\n\n(You might just see what is blindingly obvious to *everyone* else).", "replies": [], "depth": 9}, {"id": "hjd6euy", "text": "Please tell me you\u2019re younger than 20.", "replies": [], "depth": 9}], "depth": 8}, {"id": "hjgkkil", "text": "Well said", "replies": [], "depth": 8}], "depth": 7}, {"id": "hjd6dt9", "text": "Hahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahha", "replies": [], "depth": 7}, {"id": "hjd90uv", "text": "Wait you just went full retard all over this thread and are getting lippy? I\u2019m dying, get outta this sub\ud83d\ude02\ud83d\ude02\ud83d\ude02", "replies": [], "depth": 7}], "depth": 6}, {"id": "hjcqifj", "text": "This - if I had a dollar for every engineer who thought they knew how to do my job better than I do I\u2019d have more money for projects.", "replies": [], "depth": 6}], "depth": 5}, {"id": "hjh5fd2", "text": "&gt;I mean, a huge part of site design is the permitting.\n\nWords fail me.", "replies": [], "depth": 5}], "depth": 4}, {"id": "hjcu8rm", "text": "Zoning, site planning, and legalities like easements and  usage/access rights. Etc. Etc. Etc.", "replies": [], "depth": 4}], "depth": 3}, {"id": "hjc58j9", "text": "Wow.", "replies": [], "depth": 3}, {"id": "hjcqa4i", "text": "There are quite a few knowledge gaps you need to fill - many of those can be quick fixes and some will require almost a masters degree of study. \n\nI wish you luck - but not at the expense of my own projects.", "replies": [], "depth": 3}], "depth": 2}], "depth": 1}, {"id": "hjc1jky", "text": "I'll just touch on your starting step, driving by a site does not a profitable site make. Developers do not expend millions of dollars, investor capital, and their own time on a whim. You need a ***market study,*** cost analysis, hard bid, vendor relationships, lender relationships, etc. Before even trying to do ground up construction without a tenant in tow. \n\n&amp;#x200B;\n\nBored of owning 1,000 apartment units...haha, then why not do it? If you own 1,000 even with debt, you'll be pretty wealthy in all measurements, then you can use your FU money to prove this thread wrong by building a car wash on a $19/psf lot....", "replies": [{"id": "hjcpqrf", "text": "I know a car wash guy that did just that - went on a $19psf lot I told him not to go to and he\u2019s running 1/3rd the business he projected - I laugh every time I think of it.", "replies": [], "depth": 2}, {"id": "hjem7zj", "text": "Thank you for the response.\n\nAnd yes, owning 1000 doors is quite lucrative even if the bank owns all of them. That's somewhere I'd like to get some day, but for the foreseeable future I'm in the mindset that I still want to be active and hands on.\n\n$19/sf for a car wash is bat shit insane, especially in my neck of the woods. There's a suitable lot for one near me that's $13/sf, and even that has me scratching my head a little. Doable? Probably. But, $10/sf *maybe* $11/sf would make a lot more sense to increase chances of success.", "replies": [{"id": "hjf4yw3", "text": "I would love to see how you arrived at these *completely* non-arbitrary price points. Lmfao.", "replies": [{"id": "hjfbv6j", "text": "I'd love to see how you know they're wrong. Arbitrary to you, maybe. I've got the math sitting on my desk next to me. Message me if you want to stop by and take a look at it and offer some advice. Otherwise, just go back to playing hardass, keyboard warrior on the internet.", "replies": [], "depth": 4}], "depth": 3}], "depth": 2}], "depth": 1}, {"id": "hjc1oke", "text": "I agree with Wow. \n\nI think the answer to all your questions is to go ahead and start small, then go from there- get huuuge and have your multi faceted empire. Don't over think it (although you may have already done that).", "replies": [], "depth": 1}, {"id": "hjc1rbe", "text": "\u201cI want to be the CEO of Goldman Sachs, I took a finance class once and did OK except on the one quiz on derivatives (who knew black holes were part of derivatives I thought they only talk about that in astrology or like cosmetology class lol) and I know how banks work from using the chase app, I really like it when I get a free lollipop if I go see a teller am I on the right track to running Goldman?\u201d", "replies": [{"id": "hjc5syo", "text": "*\"Harriet......call HR* ***immediately***, *I believe we've found our man!*\"", "replies": [], "depth": 2}, {"id": "hjhruna", "text": "This might be the funniest comment I\u2019ve ever seen on Reddit.", "replies": [], "depth": 2}, {"id": "hjq48ly", "text": "Becoming a developer is tough, requires a magic combination of capital, know how and relationships. \n\nBut every single one of them started somewhere. And I guarantee you at least a handful were underdogs. \n\nThe contributions to this post that outline all the pieces that make it a heavy lift are a lot more useful than the useless har har sarcasm like above.", "replies": [], "depth": 2}], "depth": 1}, {"id": "hjc3goz", "text": "I want to give a thoughtful non insulting response to you.  What you're talking about are great ideas.  Building stuff in a nice way for it to be used effectively is certainly a wonderful thing.  If you had a lot of money and ability to borrow, I don't know what could be more fun than building commercial properties that are set up perfectly for users and then either own and run the project or sell it to somebody who wants to.\n\nMy wife and I bought a lot of single family houses and renovated them exactly how we thought tenants would like them to be oh, and it was a lot of fun, and we still have them.  The best part of all of that was there was no client involved and we didn't need approvals from anyone (other than city codes, obviously.)\n\nHaving the idea of what could be good on a certain plot of land is like 1% of the whole process.  Having the money, the contractors, going thru all the city county state watershed approvals, etc., and being able to build it all at a price point that will result in people wanting to rent and use it is 99% of it.  All of that stuff is a ton of work and can be a giant pain in the ass.\n\nAssuming you don't personally have the money to develop a project on your own, the main problem is that there's going to have to be a client involved or a developer partner.  You will not be able to just look at this thing and put on it what you think would be great fun to put on it.  A whole bunch of other people are going to want to have their say and put their stamp on it and in the end it might not end up anything like what you thought would have been great.\n\nOr perhaps you did develop something and in the end it costs too much to build so the rates you have to charge for rent end up being unrealistic, and the project ends up losing money.  Since it can't rent for enough to pay its own bills, you also can't sell it to anyone for enough to cover what it cost to get it built.  in the end you may have to sell at a giant loss or get foreclosed on.  This actually does happen in development.  \n\nTons of housing projects (subdivisions, condo conversions etc) that were built in 2005-2007, assuming that people would continue to pay inflated prices forever, were spectacular failures once the market fell out.  This could theoretically happen to any development.\n\nSo basically yeah, I'm sure you've got some good ideas. I have lots of good ideas as do many other people.  I think most of us tend to assume that the reason we don't see these wonderful things happening on an empty plot of land or in a restaurant space that's been vacant for three years is because of a lack of great ideas.  \"Why doesn't someone do something with this.\"\n\nIn reality it's more because the doing is the hard part and the great ideas are the easy part.  So I think that's why these other commenters are being pretty hard on you.  Every developer has a ton of ideas but there's so much more that goes into it it only a few of them ever actually get developed.\n\nYou sound like a smart ambitious person though so I wish you good luck and encourage you to keep thinking big!", "replies": [{"id": "hjcf0pl", "text": "Nicely delivered.", "replies": [{"id": "hjci0it", "text": "Truly.", "replies": [], "depth": 3}], "depth": 2}, {"id": "hjen388", "text": "This is a great response and I really appreciate you taking the time to type it up. Thank you!\n\nI personally don't have a lot of cash on hand yet, enough to secure financing for a single family home. I do have parents and a friend that have the money that could make larger projects happen, but I already know they won't blindly throw money at me (rightly so, as I haven't proven I can do jack shit yet). So, I think I literally just need to do something, anything, sooner than later that demonstrates I can successfully make something happen.\n\nYou gave good information and insight, and I have thoughts on all of it. I could write a short book responding to all of it, so I'll just end this here. Thanks again.", "replies": [{"id": "hjeslz8", "text": "Maybe you\u2019ll make something happen.  Everyone starts with that one first purchase or project.  Good luck!", "replies": [], "depth": 3}], "depth": 2}, {"id": "hjfn97h", "text": "\ud83d\udc4f\ud83c\udffb", "replies": [], "depth": 2}], "depth": 1}, {"id": "hjc5rfh", "text": "Don\u2019t listen to the nay sayers. Development isn\u2019t as complicated as everyone says it is. You may spend a hell of a lot more money in consulting fees on your first couple of projects, but that\u2019s to be expected. I would say to start small, maybe 2-3 residential homes, or one small general use commercial building (given you conduct extensive market research to know your project is viable.) Development is very different from urban planning, but it\u2019s definitely ONE OF THE best segues. \n\nAs for funding, local investors are your best bet. Wealthy residents who want to be passive investors, other business owners/ doctors, etc. If you have to take it to a bank or corporation that is fine too, you will figure out what works best for you depending on what you want to do and what your market has a demand for. \n\nI would HIGHLY HIGHLY encourage you to look at affordable housing, there\u2019s a myriad of different federal grants &amp; low interest loans. The downside is the profits are smaller, and regulations / pre requisites are more strenuous. However, it is still an amazing vehicle for starting out in development and you will gain a ton of experience.", "replies": [], "depth": 1}, {"id": "hjc8d1y", "text": "Just one piece of advice, you can't undervalue the importance of good funding in development.\n\nGreat investors and lenders are key. Some are patient, others are useful, and the majority can be huge pains. Ego shows up frequently. One annoying investor out of a dozen in one project can be the source of months of legal battle pain.\n\nAlso, follow every law, have a great attorney, and ignorance is never a viable excuse when it comes to other people's money.\n \nDevelopers are often get pinned as the bad guy. In my experience, it's usually they followed all the rules, did their absolute best, bad stuff happened, and it was rough for everyone.", "replies": [{"id": "hjcfamc", "text": "Pfft, just fund it all cash. \n\n/s \n\nFor smaller deals that\u2019s a lot of motivation for even avoiding leverage for returns. Rich people hate asking for permission.", "replies": [], "depth": 2}], "depth": 1}, {"id": "hjcbk4r", "text": "This gave me a hearty laugh. I too think I would be a great astronaut or race-car driver, I just haven't gone through with it ya know? \n\nAt first I thought this was just trolling but it seems people are actually that clueless about the industry.", "replies": [{"id": "hjdadzf", "text": "Come on, the guy with no experience is just curious and in thought about if his developer role assumptions are correct or not.\n\nThe difference between you thinking you could win the Daytona 500 and him envisioning a plot of land for best-use is that he seems inclined to actually take action.\n\nGotta start somewhere, Talladega. Now youre only shakin n bakin your chicken.", "replies": [{"id": "hjdb4vc", "text": "Unfortunately this business is trial by fire, better for him to try to understand the depths of the scope of his questions before he spends any time wasting money on some fantasy or worse taken advantage of by a opportunistic development partner. \n\nBUT I have been practicing my left turns with intent so honestly you never WHEN I\u2019ll break into NASCAR but it will be centuries before this guy opens a car wash/apartment empire.", "replies": [], "depth": 3}], "depth": 2}], "depth": 1}, {"id": "hjcf7rq", "text": "I\u2019m a broker by trade, but more specifically a land broker. I would say the most important element you\u2019re missing at the moment would be that side of the equation, and the relationships and experience that come along with taking projects from raw dirt, all the way through A&amp;E, rezoning, entitlements, closing, etc. Once you can grasp what makes a deal, a deal, and know x players that are looking for y tracts, then you\u2019ll be closer to reaching your goal. At the end of the day, you have to be able to sell in order to develop. Our start was very organic. Came across a piece that was too ironclad to miss, partnered with a friend and colleague that was an experienced GC, created a new company, and we were off to the races.", "replies": [{"id": "hjcsmqp", "text": "Great point. There\u2019s not a ton of raw land out there right now with the market this hot, and the stuff that is out there is getting bid up on the purchase price. As you alluded to, that first deal should be an obvious home run to cover the cost of the stupid tax for your first deal. I\u2019m not saying it\u2019s not possible to find a good deal, I\u2019ve done a few this past year, but just that I really have to sharpen my pencil when making these second and third round offers.  I don\u2019t know how comfortable I would be taking a run at a deal without current, firm market and construction data.", "replies": [], "depth": 2}], "depth": 1}, {"id": "hjcfrsr", "text": "If I found out my fund was investing in some guy on Reddit with no experience I would shit myself", "replies": [], "depth": 1}, {"id": "hjcgsln", "text": "Development is easy.\n\n1) keep your enthusiasm.\n2) have the ability to borrow A LOT of money from investors, strangers, potential customers and friends.\n3) get to know your city councilors and most of the trades people and property professionals in your town.\n4) sit in hundreds of meetings.\n5) be incredibly fortunate with your timing.", "replies": [], "depth": 1}, {"id": "hjchnie", "text": "You better have money and know what you are doing! Lol", "replies": [{"id": "hjcicem", "text": "Of the two key areas you mention he should be highly proficient in...he appears to be lacking in....\n\nThree of them.", "replies": [{"id": "hjcmxd2", "text": "I am blessed to have access to a couple hundred grand from my father. But yes, I'm lacking in experience. That's why I'm asking for advice. Thanks captain obvious.", "replies": [{"id": "hjcvovq", "text": "It's not the lack of experience that's so troubling....it's the complete lack of forethought.", "replies": [{"id": "hjcw0rz", "text": "I'd say that experience enables one to have accurate forethought. I don't know much about development beyond a helicopter view. That's why I'm here asking questions. I don't have all the answers and I'm not trying to pretend I do.", "replies": [{"id": "hjcx5ka", "text": "Forethought isn't \"accurate\".  \n\nIt's insightful.", "replies": [], "depth": 6}], "depth": 5}], "depth": 4}], "depth": 3}], "depth": 2}], "depth": 1}, {"id": "hjcioht", "text": "Developer here, stick with apartments and stop taking whatever you took before you wrote this. \n\n\nYou can think all you want but developing is much more then telling contractors what to do and negotiating costs. It\u2019s all about balance and playing multiple roles. \nYou need to do hundreds of hours of research on each project you look into. You need to deal with banks, hard money lenders, 100\u2019s of vendors and contractors (you\u2019ll need to know the cliff notes on each), politicians, city officials, partners, day laborers, engineers, multiple attorneys, reporters, and a few others depending on what you\u2019re doing. You need to do all of this while keeping your family priority.\nYou can make tons of money but it\u2019s absolutely fucking ruthless and you can just as easily get slaughtered.", "replies": [{"id": "hjcpo6n", "text": "See, all that sounds fun to me. I embrace planning things out, making relationships with people, wheeling and dealing, and I honestly even enjoy things most people find risky/stressful because I really don't ever get stressed. Any good books you'd recommend?", "replies": [{"id": "hjcrfpb", "text": "Art of the deal, the guy is scum but it really helps break down the day in a life. It shows you what to expect. Bigger pockets multi family millionaire was good too, particularly the one that touched on syndication and raising money. Intelligent investor was solid too but baptism by fire and hands on experience is the best teacher. \n\n\nId strongly strongly suggest finding hard money. Start by flipping houses, buying smaller multi family rentals, and don\u2019t hire a property manager. Get the experience, learn how to deal with code enforcement, zoning, planning and contractors. Learn to oversee jobs and watch your contractors doing work and ask questions, learn enough to know when someone is trying to fuck you on a job estimate (could save you millions down the line) learn from experience and being thrown into complicated situations. \n\nIf I were you I\u2019d read a few books, find a market you want to enter, research it, reach out to lenders, and find a piece of shit property fix it up and either sell it or rent it. Repeat that and get a couple years of experience.", "replies": [{"id": "hjcshgk", "text": "I actually have that book sitting on my entertainment stand in the living room right now. I'll pick it up and start reading soon. I've read one book previously a few months ago that focused a lot on syndication for raising money. That was a new concept to me that was definitely worth learning about.\n\nI've been exposed to virtually everything there you've mentioned both in my personal life due to my family having flipped some houses, built some houses, and owning both sfh and small multi-unit rental properties. Granted, I wasn't the decision maker nor the one with my neck on the line so I wasn't intimately involved, but it's not like I haven't seen that stuff before. That's honestly what is driven a lot of my interest in doing this on my own.\n\nMy professional experience, albeit a rather short amount, has had me exposed to most of the second half of what you said in your second paragraph. While I have yet to be the project manager or engineer stamping a plan set, I definitely have more skin in the game than watching my parents do it and occasionally helping them out.\n\nI appreciate you actually taking the time to give me real responses. It doesn't bother me that people are sitting here shitting on me, but the fact that they think that's a constructive thing to do with their time makes it obvious what they actually do or don't know. So thank you.", "replies": [{"id": "hjctb18", "text": "Then you have an in, get involved and get paid in experience. Don\u2019t be entitled, don\u2019t expect anything in return and learn the business. Then once you learn a little just prove yourself to people, find good deals and get things done on time and on budget. \n\nNot going to lie they shit on rightfully you came out guns blazing it sounded like satire at first but it seems to be youthful ambition which is good. If you have any questions PM me and It might take a few days for me to respond but I\u2019ll answer questions you might have.", "replies": [], "depth": 5}, {"id": "hjek1h9", "text": "&gt;It doesn't bother me that people are sitting here shitting on me\n\nNo one is shitting on you son.  They're trying to tell you (*quite politely*) to look in the mirror.\n\nYou have no clothes (and you're not even an Emperor).\n\nThe undertone of the comments is more than obvious, but it's not because they're assholes.", "replies": [], "depth": 5}], "depth": 4}], "depth": 3}], "depth": 2}], "depth": 1}, {"id": "hjclmwg", "text": "i think a lot of answers are rude, but you\u2019re as smart as many that have done it. i think the desire is there,  but you have to bridge the gap with the know how. if you actually do it, i picture it taking 10-15 years while working either in brokerage or for several real estate firms\u2026i think the definition of success will change along the way and you will definitely find it. i\u2019ve been doing cre for a while and love it, but i realize i need to find what really matters to me. a quote i like to go back to is \u201cmore is not better, better is better\u201d. meet your needs and think about what you really want. unless you have fuck you money, be smart, and one amazing project is more than worth the journey, say if it ends up like that", "replies": [], "depth": 1}, {"id": "hjcluul", "text": "There\u2019s so much more. When you are at a closing and you have 13 lawyers there and you know why every one of them is there, then, just maybe, you might not be completely helpless. Being a developer is half luck and all name.", "replies": [{"id": "hjcqjrd", "text": "I definitely figured that as much as with anything else in life, if not more, it's very dependent on who you know rather than what you know. Is 13 lawyers hyperbole? I can't imagine there being that many lawyers on one side of the table on smaller deals, but could certainly see it on large deals.", "replies": [{"id": "hjd2ih6", "text": "There is no such thing as an in person closing. The most complicated deal I\u2019ve ever worked on was an offshore - offshore hospitality transaction and there were 7 lawyers involved. Usually there are 2-3 on equity deals.", "replies": [{"id": "hjdrbwa", "text": "The tradition was to go to chicago or atlanta for closings with everyone in person and to take everyone to a stake dinner afterwards.", "replies": [], "depth": 4}], "depth": 3}, {"id": "hjdrh98", "text": "It depends on the transaction. Usually the more parties involved, the more lawyers there are. I\u2019ve only done one closing with 13 lawyers, but most were on the phone. It is hyperbolic, but also not at all. The point is that things can be complicated even if you know the right people.", "replies": [], "depth": 3}], "depth": 2}], "depth": 1}, {"id": "hjcty9o", "text": "Let me be clear when I speak about this topic.\n\nSource: I have been a broker 8yrs, facility planning analyst(5yrs), currently a consultant, CCIM member candidate, developer, construction company owner, 6 years on a planning and zoning commission (vice chairman) and 7 on ZBA (co-chairman).  Projects I do are multi-tenant and single tenant NNN corporate anchored build and sells in secondary and rural markets. \n\n\n\nYou\u2019re not a unique butterfly.\n\nYou have a \u201cgreat idea\u201d and will either get out over your ski\u2019s in pursuit costs or wind up going broke on a losing project due to your complete lack of experience and absolutely overestimated skill set.\n\nI want to be clear. If you can\u2019t afford to light money on fire if a project fundamentally flips (it happens A LOT!) just know you\u2019re not a developer you\u2019re a dreamer. I\u2019m sorry.\n\nThat said, you could be a valued member on a development team and have some form of earn in via zero cost site plans and civil engineering etc.\n\nI have over 10 years in multiple areas of development. 4m in net worth. Lending contacts all over the place. \n\nDeals are tough and this is an unforgiving area to play in - enter at your own risk.", "replies": [{"id": "hjcvhw1", "text": "I appreciate you taking the time to give an actual response. It definitely sounds like you have a clue, or many clues. And I appreciate your honesty. Some people would definitely be turned off by the amount of risk involved, but I'm excited by the challenge and risk (and yes, I'm aware that's me being naive because I don't know better yet).\n\nI agree that my skills my valuable to the right team of people. I think my best option, and one I'm also pursuing currently, is working on meeting people in the industry local to me to start making contacts.\n\nI certainly agree that I can be quite the dreamer, but I am set on changing that and getting my feet wet hopefully next year. Taking action is definitely the best way to learn.", "replies": [{"id": "hjcz3qk", "text": "Find a developer in your area and have lunch - just tell them what you\u2019re looking at and see how it progresses. \n\nI have a reading list of roughly 30 books some on negotiation, some on capital raises, yet more on the math behind developing. Just take a few minutes and snag the urban land institutes \u201cfinance for real estate development\u201d - Charles Long.\n\nYou can get some thought exercises going to slow you down a little.", "replies": [{"id": "hjfi31a", "text": "Would you be so kind to share your complete reading list ?", "replies": [], "depth": 4}], "depth": 3}], "depth": 2}], "depth": 1}, {"id": "hjcuvrs", "text": "I highly recommend this book. \nJohn McNellis\nMaking it in Real Estate: Starting Out as a Developer", "replies": [{"id": "hjcvk2m", "text": "Thank you for the recommendation! I'll look at getting it.", "replies": [], "depth": 2}], "depth": 1}, {"id": "hjdcv0g", "text": "I\u2019d say it\u2019s both extremely complicated but also simple as you\u2019ve laid out. I know lots of cowboy developers. As you can see from the responses it takes lots of ego to be a developer. And balls. You\u2019re essentially gambling on a site and you need deep pockets to ride it out. You probably understand the process and the players, maybe you need to get to know the financial side. I\u2019d make friends with brokers if you can. \nIf you\u2019re going the commercial route and build from scratch, I try always get an tenant or two first. Reno is less risky, costs are lower and you can revitalize, draw from the existing tenants. Honestly just be a landlord for a bit first to get that side it it. \nSmall duplex/triplex residential is a bit simpler to get into but you need a builder you trust. \nI truly think most of it is learned as you go, every project is different. It\u2019s so fun, go for it!", "replies": [{"id": "hjdd3y7", "text": "Thank you for giving a quality response. I appreciate the insight. I definitely agree that I need to focus on relationships on the financial side of things. That is most likely my biggest blind spot at this point.", "replies": [{"id": "hjdeg8r", "text": "I love the planning and design side of things, I probably think the same things are \u201cfun\u201d that you do. I wouldn\u2019t say you are blind coming into it as an engineer.  These people should understand that brains like yours can save us millions of dollars. A civil engineer saved our latest site with a brilliant work around on a drainage plan with a complicated layout. \n\nI spend a ton of time driving around and daydreaming. And I often know more about sites and projects than the brokers who are trying to sell me stuff.  It\u2019s part of the business and you already have the excitement for it. It\u2019s risky though. Not gonna lie.", "replies": [], "depth": 3}], "depth": 2}], "depth": 1}, {"id": "hjddbhc", "text": "Probably work as a Civil Engineer initially for developers. To find out how to fund the properties ($).", "replies": [], "depth": 1}, {"id": "hjdudzp", "text": "Seems a lot of these folks are giving you a tough time. I disagree with that sentiment. You can do it. Requires effort and time and years of building relationships. Get started now and you\u2019ll be there sooner than you think. You\u2019ll also make a shit load of mistakes and lose money more frequently than you make money but as long as you size those bets correctly you can come out on top.\n\nWhere it gets hairy is that a lot of the parts of the project occur simultaneously and need to coincide with one other. Focus on developing a bench of players you\u2019ll need at various points throughout your development cycle so when the right opportunity comes along you have relationships to tap. Capital, talent, resources. It\u2019s not a difficult business, it\u2019s a hard one. \n\nSource: I\u2019m a developer.", "replies": [], "depth": 1}, {"id": "hjemlod", "text": "You should consider working for a developer.  \n\nThink of it like if you wanted to be a nascar driver.  You probably will need at least a sound understanding of getting sponsors, automotive mechanics, media relations, and 10 other things.  The driving is like the site selection and idea.  Yeah its important but if you dont have extensive experience with every other piece you will never get to the point of being in a race so it doesnt matter.\n\nLegit short cuts would be to already be rich, or happen to be jeff gordons son.", "replies": [{"id": "hjeno8l", "text": "I like the analogy and can certainly relate to it. Thanks for taking the time to respond. I will keep an eye out for developer job postings in my area that could be filled by my experience and offer an opportunity to learn new things.", "replies": [{"id": "hjqz1ft", "text": "\u201cREAL ESTATE DEVELOPER WANTED: No experience necessary. Enquire within.\u201d \ud83d\ude02", "replies": [], "depth": 3}], "depth": 2}], "depth": 1}, {"id": "hjfbyx5", "text": "You should be careful, your ideas may be solid and with good intentions but that doesn\u2019t really mean it\u2019s going to make money. If your going to seek funding for it investors want returns on time and they don\u2019t care what obstacles you run into so be very careful and \u201cpinch every penny\u201d hold as much stock as you can and as little debt as possible. The best companies know that debt is the enemy of all business", "replies": [], "depth": 1}, {"id": "hjfqtjv", "text": "I am on the same boat. I have done some developing in another country and came to US. Trying to do it here now. Research phase. Looking into the process of it. Reading books , talking to people, asking on reddit. \n\nDont get discouraged by the negative people here. Real estate development is a nay sayer paradise.\n\nIn US it seems, finance people are more involved in the entire construction process. And they are quite smug about it . \n\nA lot of financial modeling is done here and they rely on it quite a lot . Although as I talk with more people, some say these analysises fail quite often too.  People are also quite impressed with the daunting legal bureaucracy they created. And they like to tell the new comers how it is. Being rude, showing swagger, belittling attitude is the norm. I welcome any data play that can shine a light , not impressed about all the bragging. Yet again, if info only comes in an ugly package, I cant care less. Not here to teach manners. \n\nAnd, I am still unphased.  \nMy idea, this is all great . Even more of a reason to get into developing. I could do it in the dark, imagine what I can do with all this financial data helping developers. . \n\nMy suggestion ,gather as much info as you can, then if you can find the smallest thing you can develop , it would be a good idea to go ahead and do that. The risks would be small yet you would experience the entire process. Which would open you up to more people and information.", "replies": [], "depth": 1}, {"id": "hjhqn5c", "text": "I own and operate 16 express car washes under different trade names on the West Coast. It\u2019s not boring. Trust me.", "replies": [], "depth": 1}, {"id": "hkdw0dc", "text": "I want to be a developer too. The problem is at this point in time most desirable locations already have buildings on them or it will be much more expensive for you to build new than to buy something existing and renovate it. Even if you can get past zoning restrictions (my eternal headache), find trustworthy and reasonably priced contractors, and secure financing just connecting to city utilities or building a well and septic can cost over 50k easily which doesn\u2019t include the cost of the land or the building. HVAC costs are up about 25% from 2 years ago. That means for a modest 1200 sqft single family home a new system will be about 15k minimum and for a multifamily around ~3500 sqft over 40k, possibly up to 60k. Can you pay the mortgage and carrying costs for the duration of your build? \n\nProbably a new build with a contractor will be at least 140.00 per sqft. The most expensive parts of a building aside from utility connections are the HVAC, siding if you go hardie board, roof, kitchens, and bathrooms. That is why most builders convert large multifamily homes to single family (less kitchen and bath = higher profit margins) and homes today have lost the customization of the past. Instead of hand carved railings everything is mass produced and giant square homes lacking character are being packed on lots like sardines. \n\nAlso, people care about results and assets not ideas. You are trying to break in to a competitive industry with no experience or portfolio of success. If you are serious you need to buy some rentals and either flip or manage them. Alternatively, you could do a real estate MBA and/or work for someone else\u2019s commercial development company. I am planning to do both since I don\u2019t have the cash or connections to carryout a large commercial project on my own at this time.", "replies": [], "depth": 1}, {"id": "hkdytu5", "text": "Also, you know who has a lot of money? The government! As a civil engineer you may want to look into FEMA Elevation Grant consulting projects.", "replies": [], "depth": 1}]