Do any of you (more experienced folks) just hate this industry? What is your exit plan?
I feel like I learned to work hard, be smart, get deals done, make calls, do what it takes.  I did.  I make good money.  I watched my peers fall out one by one and felt lucky to even have a shot in my early years.  My ethics were always important to me and I am sure I passed up money but always joked about those brokers and folks who would lie etc to get shit done.  They make boat loads of money and everyone coming into this looks at them as the "goal".  I feel like I get desensitized to that every day.  I make a very very nice living and have few fiscal issues but I'm mid career making in that 100k type range in a non coast market and I understand very much what I have to do to make 400k and I don't want to do it.  I don't want to lie to people and fuck them.  Even if I did I don't know the end goal outside of amassing savings to do something else.

My exit plan was always to just build wealth and connections and run a fund and now I could do that and understand it and I understand raising funds to be a sponsor is a million percent worse than brokering and consulting.  I know those guys and their life is worse than mine it seems.

I am just tired.  I feel like I work hard all the time and don't care what happens with any of this, none of it makes the world better in any way what so ever, and a lot of what I do honestly notably makes things worse for people.  

I volunteer a lot and serve on the boards of several things and thought I could use my experience to do things like develop affordable housing.  It is impossible to do without basically being a political whore.  I brought a pledge of multiple millions this year to a number of gov entities and non profits and I literally spent 3 months being told why nothing I wanted to do worked and to go back to the private sector.  

My other options are to form my own brokerage and recruiting a ton of kids who don't know shit about shit and bankrupting half of them while I tell them "just make calls!  You gotta work hard to make it".  

I look at my very successful friends and connections and they are on their 2nd or 3rd marriage, never see their kids, and I don't want to be them in 20 years.  What is a good exit strategy to someone who has connections, experience and doesn't want to wind up like that?  

I'd really love to hear from those of you in  your 50-'s etc.  Is this is just what this career is?  I get your first years are hard, this isn't what I am talking about.  I have a solid book of business and make good money and I am in the 10-20 year experience class.

I don't have to quit this because I can't make it, I just hate it and have no idea what to do.  I can't be the only one?
[{"id": "guiqor6", "text": "Have you started investing in properties of your own? If you are successful, that's the exit I have seen.", "replies": [{"id": "guiwsrc", "text": "That was pretty much my plan and what I meant by running a fund.  I can raise money which is much more than I have.  I am not really trying to go from dealing with large properties to buying 250k ones and swinging hammers for a living.  I can do larger deals and take equity as a JP or be the MP at this point and dump my own money in.  If its my money though I'm small potatos and it be hard to earn a living.  If its other peoples money then I'm back to being their bitch for lack of a better word.\n\nAlso the market sucks.  Like I honestly am telling people not to buy shit right now, including family.  It isn't a good time to go into private ownership IMO", "replies": [{"id": "guizywc", "text": "That\u2019s fair. I have never even sniffed at your level, but have experience with the small ball side of things.\n\nAgree that it\u2019s a rough time to buy.", "replies": [], "depth": 3}, {"id": "gum84q6", "text": "Someone much smarter and successful than me once said\n\n\"Keep it Small Keep it All\".\n\nI have made that one of my personal credos. Even when it involves swinging a hammer. That said, I like swinging hammers. Beats the hell out of everything OP described above. Been there done that.", "replies": [], "depth": 3}], "depth": 2}], "depth": 1}, {"id": "guiu4mz", "text": "Are you in a large market?  I'm in a smaller market and the culture is a lot different.  In my city, if you don't know someone,  you will have a mutual connection. Every dishonest broker I have seen eventually gets a reputation and eventually burns out.  It's also a slower pace here, and the money is still great.", "replies": [{"id": "guiw8lb", "text": "Mid size I guess?  Picture Cleveland, Nashville, Indianapolis, Atlanta etc.  I am not in SF/LA/NYC/Boston Etc. \n\nI have family here and ties and don't want to relocate.  Most brokers actually aren't bad, I didn't mean to give that impression.  When I push up into more capital markets stuff and start playing with like 5 mil properties vs 1 mil ones its very different and I get a lot of shit like \"well we are going to counter at 5 mil but our actual price is 4.5, can you get your client up to that?  if you can get me a 4.25 counter I'll get it done\".  I mean I get how to deal with that, it isn't really my question, but I feel like that is my future if I don't make a change.", "replies": [{"id": "gum8tf1", "text": "I am a small residential landlord as a side gig, I spent nearly 2 decades in a different industry and got burned out, hard. \n\nIt's scary to make a change, but I am telling you, if you don't it sounds like it won't get better for you at this point. In my long career there were times I was a little worn out and then it would get better. But overall the arc was towards burnout. Some jobs just aren't a good fit for certain people. It really takes a toll over time. \n\nHard to say whether the change you need is a big one or more incremental, but I agree with others, you should really take some time off for some introspection and re-evaluation of your priorities and goals. I am doing that now, it's been really cathartic. All the best.", "replies": [], "depth": 3}], "depth": 2}], "depth": 1}, {"id": "guj487e", "text": "I am in my 30s so feel free to disregard. I see my exit as becoming a landlord as well, but I rarely ever see any deals that I would be remotely interested in buying. There is too much free money out there and I am in a market that has been hot and is about to be red hot. This can't last forever and my goal is to buy some pre forclosure retail/ industrial when rates go up. Could be a few years from now, but when money becomes scarce I plan to be sitting on a pile of cash.\n\nSince the Fed started buying stocks last year I have been dumping all the commission I can into a few choice equities (GME, MO, LUMN, TAP, SVAC) on top of building up my cannabis MSO positions (mostly AYR Wellness). Things have gone well, but this is a risky play that I can't recommend to anyone that is not a masochist. \n\nIn summary: Buy Gamestop.", "replies": [{"id": "gujfk2g", "text": "rates are never going up lol, not ever. why the hell did we have monetary expansion during the longest bull market and boom period in American history? fed has effectively become politicized, and with both parties' ability to stay in office past a single term is dependent on corporate-funded PAC donations, its better to keep the money hose flowing in a cost-benefit analysis. I'm pretty blackpilled on it and might be a little doomer about the issue as a whole, but I really don't know if the Fed will ever raise rates to pre-2008 levels; not even that lol, like if we go to 4% during the next expansionary period or something.", "replies": [{"id": "gujk1l6", "text": "Time will tell, but I will take that bet all day. Cycles come and go. I can't pinpoint a catalyst, but rates will go up in the long run. You are not wrong about the Fed or the corruption across the board throughout our government, but the corruption variable is basically a constant throughout American history. we certainly are in unprecedented times, but that doesn't mean we are at the end of history and can keep printing money forever. The music will stop. It may be 2, 5, or 15 years, but this too will end.", "replies": [{"id": "gujku1w", "text": "I am not an economist and don't pretend to be, so I didn't want to conjecture on the above comment but I agree with you.  At the end of the day you have historically low interest rates and amazing real interest rates outside the \"official\" number in terms of education costs, housing costs, medical costs and some other which basically consumes the majority of the average house holds expenses.  Anyways I am not trying to argue that but I do think rates have to go up or you are basically looking at increased wealth disparity which my read on the political climate tends to say isn't popular anymore.  \n\n&amp;#x200B;\n\nAnyhow I'm not really trying to time the market but a shit market is good for me, I have handled that most of my career fine ;P A hot market with limited supply and everyone and their cousin trying to list anything and everything then buyers over paying doesn't actually work great for my general business plan.", "replies": [], "depth": 4}], "depth": 3}], "depth": 2}, {"id": "guk8f64", "text": "Lol don't yolo on GME - wrong", "replies": [], "depth": 2}], "depth": 1}, {"id": "gujl4ef", "text": "I feel this post. Dude, time to spend some money and take a break. Figure shit out.", "replies": [], "depth": 1}, {"id": "gujox95", "text": "I have a big gripe with the \"nothing I do make's anyone's life any better\" line of reasoning. I don't know your life, your market, or your product type. I get that it's a throwaway for various reasons. #1 you developed a set of skills that the world appreciates and therefore compensates you for. This is a *good thing.* You didn't hurt anybody to get your skills, right? #2 Unless you're transacting workforce housing from sweet older couple mom'n'pops to notorious slumlords, I'm not sure how you're making people's lives worse. If you're selling development land, it should be pretty easy to understand that the building that gets built is going to give people a place to work, encourage people to move to your market, etc. If you like your market and want to stay, there's gotta be a reason why. Take pride in helping it grow. Office/industrial leasing means you're giving somebody a place to earn a living and feed their kids. Selling old apartment buildings to young investors? I guarantee there's some deferred maintenance that young investor is going to clear up and make those residents lives better. Retail? Awesome, people are going to be able to spend their hard-earned cash on their kids or having fun. I realized early on that for a profession that gets skewered for being selfish, we sure help a lot of communities grow. \n\n\nWhen it comes to syndicating/OPM, it is the rare man who is a servant to nobody. If you're 10 years in with a good book of business making 6 figures, you should have a good network of connections who trust you and who you wouldn't mind being a custodian of their money. \n\n\nOr maybe one of those relationships is an affordable-housing developer? You seem to have a heart for that. $100k/year isn't so high up, you could go to the  one you like best \"hat-in-hand,\" lay out the work you've done for them over the years, and get a $70-80k position, maybe more. Not so much of a loss in lifestyle or prestige. I know of a situation nearby where somebody with a very successful brokerage practice went in-house with a developer for a cut in pay but a big security bonus and nobody judged him lesser for it. \n\n\nI dunno. I'm probably about the same age as you, definitely not the 50ish demo you were looking for. But I've been around a lot of older men in this industry who are on first marriages, don't screw people on deals, etc. And they're happy because they love their market and they know deal flow is a good thing for their market, either selfishly (my wife can go shopping at better stores, my kids have better school peers), or unselfishly (I'm in service to my hometown that has given me so much), and they keep the deal hose flowing.", "replies": [{"id": "gul5qqf", "text": "Eh sounds like bullshit to me. Like blissful ignorance. Choosing to masturbate yourself over the \"I gave someone a place to work\" crap. As if a guy like OP hasn't gone through that motion yet. \n\nThe point is all your work is indirect. You're negotiating between two rich people. BSing your way to a commission fee worth pennies on the dollar. \n\nSure there's people who have some comfort in knowing they're not as bad as the worst slimeball they've met, but it's not helping someone one on one. It's not producing the product that will help millions. It's not nursing someone back to life in a hospital or teaching the youth who will take the future from us. It's... Blah blah the market rate blah money this money that. \n\nOP is asking about a specific and common issue in CRE that you're pretending is a choice of mindset. As if seriously hard working, decently intelligent people don't know the playing field. \n\nHe's asking about this scenario.", "replies": [{"id": "gumh9pm", "text": "Meh, sounds like you're committed to being pessimistic, to me. I've helped multiple first-gen immigrants buy apartment buildings. I've helped small business owners grow from having 1 or 2 locations to 15 or 20. Sounds like helping someone one-on-one. \n\nYou're right, I'm not out here curing cancer or designing electric cars, but my cousin tests Nissan oxygen sensors for a living. I know a guy who puts the copper top on duracells. And both those guys have had fulfilling lives, good benefits, put kids through college.\n\n\nMy teacher friends hate their jobs. They deal with tons of bureaucratic BS. Likewise my healthcare friends. You can find a shit sandwich anywhere if you look hard enough.", "replies": [], "depth": 3}], "depth": 2}, {"id": "gultx9s", "text": "To elaborate on this point.\n\nThere are good and bad actors in any field you come across.  People say the same thing about law, medicine, insurance, and a whole host of other businesses.  There are always detractors that say \"they're not providing anything of value\".  What is valuable to someone is subjective to the person paying for it.  Anybody can look on the outside in and simplify a profession and say that person is getting overpaid for doing nothing or ripping people off.\n\nIf OP feels unsatisfied with his choice he should quit.  The whole \"I can't make lots of money without being a bad person\" is just a platitude.  People say this to often justify not getting deals. If people are voluntarily paying you for your time and services then you are providing a value to them. If someone is out finding properties or projects for people that they wouldn't have known of before, or saved them a lot of time on something so they could focus on building their business, then they're providing a value.\n\nInvestors are more than welcome to find their own opportunities and do their own negotiation.  Nobody is forcing them to go to a service and pay for it.  We all pay for tons of things we could do ourselves because it adds convenience.\n\nBrokers spend a significant amount of time and resources acquiring the data they do and creating those opportunities that wouldn't have been there before.  They also spend a lot of time on their education, training, and knowledge. The deals are very risky and can take 1-2 years to close.  If it falls out the broker  makes nothing for their time so they have to be compensated for their risk.  There is also more than just negotiation involved.  Brokers have to understand the zoning laws, contracts, LOI's, environmental studies, soil tests, and a host of other factors.  They also have to have some understanding of numbers and accounting to be able to present the value of the property to their client.  It is far more complex than residential and that's why it pays better.  The cost of marketing commercial deals is also very expensive and takes a lot of time.\n\nMany clients are often people who are grandfathered into a place labeled as commercial and want to move, or are losing money in their business and want to sell.  A person doing their job right would get them a lot more money than they would have received before had they gone about it themselves.   Especially if they don't understand the process (which is often the case).\n\nThere are many people who try to sell their own property and usually fail, until a broker brings someone to them.  This means they get money and the buyer gets land to develop on or a business, which can mean homes or opportunities.  Other times the seller was inefficient with their business and someone could do the job better.  These are savvy investors so they wouldn't voluntarily hire someone if there was no value to it.  Are all of these \"rich\" people so dumb that they don't know how to find their own buyers or sellers?\n\nThis argument is so pretentious because the reality is, everyone is trying to make money.  Investors are trying to make money, so why shouldn't the brokers?  Sellers want to make money as well.  The people who make these arguments about brokers have no problem with celebrities making millions saying lines in front of a camera.   If you can be paid a lot of money voluntarily you would do it to.  The people who say otherwise are just resentful.  If they could make tons of money doing basically nothing like they claim, they would be out doing it and making millions.  To say otherwise is just posturing.\n\nBy the way people complain about developers being greedy because they are trying to get rich charging for housing, not realizing that not having the living spaces there would just drive up the price.  They complain about landlords being greedy for charging for a place to occupy or live.  They also complain about flippers adding no value outside of quick touchup work.  They complain about doctors making money off of people who are sick and in need.  In short these people are bitter because they didn't have the skills or talent to do it themselves.\n\nThe bottom line is that he should find something more fulfilling or work on building good relationships or networking more.  You don't have to cheat and lie to be successful in any field.  Don't let the bad apples ruin a career choice for you.", "replies": [], "depth": 2}], "depth": 1}, {"id": "gujtbjp", "text": "IM 37, and been doing tbis 3 years and feel the same way, i just cant be a douchey type and do social media, so im averaging 120k a year. The bonus is i started investing in small MF 10 years ago and i have 60 doors now. im growing to 100 and goal is to quick CRE brokerage side the day i purchase unit 100. Lifes to short to push for 400k and at the sametime keep grinding for 120k even.", "replies": [{"id": "guk3sct", "text": "Interesting, have you always hired a property manager for your MF?  I would like to go that route but I don\u2019t want to manage tenants or self perform any maintenance.", "replies": [{"id": "guk5b8o", "text": "Im do it all, i own a truck and its full of tools, i hired 5 guys who i also then ckntract construction jobs and makes 65-80k on that portion and they help me flip maintain the buildings. I handle all the rent collection and calls, thats only 2-3hrs a month of work though. I know im not doing it the most efficiently rhis way, but my tenants take of the buildings and rent arrives on the 1st with all of them.", "replies": [{"id": "guljfj5", "text": "Ok makes sense, thanks for the information.  Sounds like it\u2019s working well for you \ud83d\udc4d", "replies": [], "depth": 4}], "depth": 3}], "depth": 2}], "depth": 1}, {"id": "guk5c9e", "text": "I think you are confusing being a broker with the entire CRE industry. Get the hell out of brokerage and get into a new position. Your skills and experience will transfer certainly to a acquisitions role with any owner/investor group.", "replies": [], "depth": 1}, {"id": "guk608e", "text": "Hate it? Nah, I was raised in it. I've seen guys and women all struggle and succeed.  A few years back I was talking to a broker in his 70s and asked him if would ever retire...\n\n\"Why would I?? I'm having fun.\" And at 70, when you're well known in a market slightly larger than yours, it is fun. And I've talked to more than a few v successful  50+ brokers, and they all use that word - Fun. From a 30 story conference room or a cubicle with a stunning view of the storage closet... Billions in commission (spread out between them) and they describe it as fun.\n\nBut I've seen folks who are where you are, and here is my advice:\n\nYou can either change your mindset, or change your gig. Because where you are right now will eat you up.\n\nSet goals for yourself and get there. Never you mind the guys who don't work like you do. They really don't matter, because most of them will not last. They burnout and either leave the industry or they change. So you are going to have to find your fun, and set your own goals... But really however you get there don't try to be someone you're not. \n\nAnd if you think you can't do it, that's ok. You have a marketable skillset and record of success. Change is scary, but that change doesn't stop you from still executing the exit plan at the same time. You can do something else, inside the industry or totally different. I did it... I threw up my hands and joined a well respected appraisal firm. We work collectively and specialize in wierd, so every day is an adventure.\n\nBut no kidding... Don't try to be a person you're not. Regret is just the worst.", "replies": [], "depth": 1}, {"id": "guk6pzf", "text": "Agree with ROI below, change mindset or change gig. Mindset wise, knowing that clients need help (particularly from someone ethical) can be fulfilling. Or, do the gig the right way and look for things outside (such as the charity work you mentioned) Alternative is to change the gig. I've done that. Not the end of the world. Can actually be better!", "replies": [], "depth": 1}, {"id": "gukb212", "text": "I\u2019d be very interested to hear more of your stories about what you\u2019ve seen in this business. What\u2019s the sketchiest thing you\u2019ve ever seen?", "replies": [], "depth": 1}, {"id": "gulfagu", "text": "I don't know where you're at financially, but I left a CRE job that paid $30K with potential to earn $100K working 60-70 hours a week for a government CRE job that pays $49K that doesn't stress me out. I've watched my six-figure earning family members get auto-immune diseases due to stress and pass away just before retirement. \n\nMoney isn't everything and if you already have a substantial amount, maybe consider taking a little bit of time off to breathe and reflect or restructure your life by going part-time. People are out here retiring on less than $600K over at r/leanfire. You can always step back in when you're ready.", "replies": [], "depth": 1}, {"id": "gulgkkg", "text": "Sometimes the act of starting your own firm or switching firms and getting in with a group that\u2019s more supportive is the way to go. It can provide a reorientation and reset to your mindset. But starting a new firm when you\u2019re averaging $100k in annual commission... I\u2019m not sure you\u2019re a good fit to launch a brokerage. It depends if you have it in you to do the business development piece. That biz development piece is what gets you to the $400k+ as an agent. It\u2019s also what makes your new firm successful. \n\nLose the bs about having to be unethical to be more successful in this business. You\u2019re lying to yourself. \n\nTry the massimo coaching programs. Massimo does a great job of breaking down the component parts of business development and helps you to build systems around it. What they teach makes the business a lot more enjoyable. If you go to one of their events you\u2019ll also meet a lot of very successful agents, that are very good people.", "replies": [], "depth": 1}, {"id": "gupgwcq", "text": "Although I cannot relate to the stage of life (recent college grad) please know it was inspiring to read this post because it brought me some ease to know there are truly successful people out there with good hearts like you. I actually graduated to work in the real estate field and reading your insight was eye opening in the fact that if you have the wrong heart motive, even what seems good can turn bad. However I\u2019m brought to comfort by your high success, yet good heart. It makes me believe maybe, I can embody the same as time goes on because I too have already noticed the personality of the field I\u2019m working in. So thank you OP. You may feel stuck but I am sure, (with the variables given and the sound of your tone) that you have made a difference in many little ways to people that they probably still reflect on and remember, and at the moment was not little to them. \ud83d\ude4f\ud83c\udffc", "replies": [], "depth": 1}, {"id": "gv0si8p", "text": "It\u2019s real estate. The only industry where you should be getting high on your own supply.", "replies": [], "depth": 1}, {"id": "gw4pcx9", "text": "So you have been having success in doing deals for revenue properties and you're not thinking about becoming the investor for once?", "replies": [], "depth": 1}, {"id": "gw4yo4z", "text": "Man, I feel this post so much. I\u2019m in my mid-20s. Started in brokerage. Hated it for all the reasons you said above. Went to the principal side. Hated it. Now finding myself loving CRE but struggling to see a future and a world where CRE investment benefits those that could benefit the most. I\u2019m young, I know, but my exit has always been to start investing in property myself. I\u2019m not talking institutional product, but I\u2019d like to own small multi family buildings. \n\nAnother exit is to start your own advising and consulting business. Only take on clients that you know will make a positive impact - be it affordable housing, companies with strong GSE pledges, etc. I did this when I left a major capital markets intermediary and feel the work I\u2019ve done thus far has had more of a positive impact on the world than my shit job in brokerage. \n\nHope this helped. Message me if you want to talk further.", "replies": [], "depth": 1}]