Question about living in a commercial warehouse (Los Angeles).
I'm certain that this post will inspire a lot of chuckles and eye-rolls, but it's an honest inquiry. I'd like to get some feedback about zoning areas for industrial/commercial properties that allow residential occupancy. I know it's illegal in most areas, but I also know that it *is* legal in some areas. How could I find out which areas allow this? Should I ask the zoning department of my city? Are they allowed to disclose this information? 

I know that some landlords will simply look the other way in cases of tenants who live in the warehouses they rent because I lived in my warehouse for five years with my landlord's knowledge, and I would still be there had he not sold the property to marijuana growers. I also know at least five other people who are currently residing in their business locations.

I am a small business owner whose business was impacted by Covid. I am rebuilding, of course, but I am also retooling the service to include online instruction and sales. This process will take time, but I still need an actual brick-and-mortar location to conduct my normal services (photography, makeup, and makeup instruction/classes). I can't afford two separate spaces (home and work) while I am rebuilding, so I'm aggressively searching for a small warehouse that will allow me to live there for the first year, and I'm having a hell of a time finding one. 

As commercial realtors, what advice could you give someone who is seeking a commercial property for conducting business AS WELL as a living space? I'm single with no kids, but I do have cats. Am I completely ridiculous for assuming that I could find (another) shop to live in?
[{"id": "ix9o8pm", "text": "Your zoning codes are publicly available, so I would start with reading through the industrial and mixed-use codes.", "replies": [{"id": "ix9zquu", "text": "Thank you so much!", "replies": [], "depth": 2}], "depth": 1}, {"id": "ix9pwg6", "text": "find which zoning works, go to city website and find zoning map, ideally interactive GIS or something, and find where it works", "replies": [{"id": "ix9ytoh", "text": "Thank you so much! That's really helpful!", "replies": [{"id": "ixa5iav", "text": "my pleasure, good luck. i\u2019ve been doing this for over ten years but i would have to do the same thing as you. there may even be grants or some incentives at times.", "replies": [], "depth": 3}], "depth": 2}, {"id": "ix9zp6b", "text": "Thank you!", "replies": [], "depth": 2}], "depth": 1}, {"id": "ix9u4sn", "text": "Have you heard of the Ghost Ship Fire? I'm surprised that any landlord would look the other way following that incident, especially in California. Public zoning information will let you know what uses are allowed outright and which uses would require a conditional permit. Of course, existing uses are grandfathered in, so if the prior tenant was legally using the warehouse space as a residence, and didn't move out that long ago, then you might be able to legally live there that way.", "replies": [{"id": "ix9znrs", "text": "Yes, I remember when that happened. I want to think that it was in/near San Francisco? Terrible tragedy. I think I remember that there were many (or dozens?) of people living in a big artist's space? Not to marginalize that awful event, but something like that is more likely to happen when so many people are involved, and could just as easily happen in a regular apartment community. From what I understand, commercial landlords are mostly concerned about insurance liability in the event of a fire and/or fatality. One of the people I know that is currently living in his artist warehouse was asked to sign a waiver to release the landlord from liability in the event of a fire or death on the property, which he gladly did.", "replies": [{"id": "ixalg8c", "text": "Yes, it was in Oakland which is across the Bay from San Francisco.\n\nRegular apartment communities have fire safety features which the converted warehouse lacked: at least two sets of stairs that are signed as emergency exits, sprinklers, smoke/fire alarms, extinguishers on each floor/in each unit, etc.\n\nThe warehouse had one hidden set of stairs and another that was improvised from wooden pallets, neither of which were properly signed as emergency exits, nor were there any of the other standard fire safety features in recent construction (obviously an apartment building from 100 years ago may only have one emergency exit).\n\nWhen you have mixed use, typically the walls/floors/ceilings between residential and non-residential uses have to have a 2 hour fire rating. Standard 5/8\" dry wall is typically rated for 1 hour, so that's at least 2 layers of standard dry wall.\n\nI'm sure there are other code issues, but fire safety is the biggest one in my opinion from a landlord perspective. Proper permitting ensures that all the safety, health, etc issues are properly addressed so that preventable tragic accidents don't occur.\n\nThe landlord can't necessarily contract out of the negligence claims involved, especially when the liability is not to the tenant but to third parties.", "replies": [{"id": "ixayhad", "text": "Thank you so much for this information! This is very helpful and I appreciate it. I know someone who owns a large artist-loft building that allows residency (I don't live there because it's in Long Beach, very small and \\*extremely\\* expensive, full to the gills, and has a long waiting list) but the owner and I had a similar discussion regarding fire safety.\n\nThe conversation began several years ago when he was first trying to remodel his building and apply for the appropriate permits. He mentioned all of the extra safety features he had to pay for, the fines he would be charged if he tried to avoid them, and the cost of the permits themselves upwards of $300K. I asked him why on earth he would even consider doing this, and he said it was because he could then charge upwards of $4K a unit.", "replies": [], "depth": 4}], "depth": 3}], "depth": 2}], "depth": 1}, {"id": "ixa7ndg", "text": "Look for \"live/work\" or \"work/live\" units, this is what you're looking for. Check Facebook marketplace and Craigslist. They may also be on apartments.com and Zillow and I would do a google search for them. They\"re mostly downtown and the arts district but some spread elsewhere. You can do keyword searches on each of the sites that will get you there. Don't worry about digging up the zoning, just focus on apartments with that classification.", "replies": [{"id": "ixawup0", "text": "I appreciate your comment very much but you may not know that the whole \"live/work\" offering is somewhat questionable. I've looked at dozens of them and almost every one of them have been just regular apartments in regular \"loft\" buildings that feature a small additional \"work\" area. These places tend to charge way more than a comparable loft as they use the \"live/work\" label as a selling point and offer very little extra space. They're fine for people who desire a home-office situation, but for a photographer and/or artist/maker, they offer very little.\n\nI need an actual warehouse with concrete floors that I don't need to worry about damaging, bay doors that allow equipment loading, extra power capabilities, etc., and  no (daytime) noise limits, since I also use air compressors, power tools, and other noisy equipment.", "replies": [{"id": "ixay3q9", "text": "Yup, it's a zoning classification so apartments can have that also. Check Craigslist, Facebook marketplace or drive around those areas and look for lease signs. Can also google or search for artist lofts as those are sometimes live/work also. I'm sure there are commercial spaces that a landlord will let you live at, but if you want to do it by the book, that is the zoning classification you're looking for.", "replies": [{"id": "ixb0oev", "text": "Thank you again, I appreciate your time. Just so you know...I am not terribly concerned with the \"by-the-book\" method, LOL! I know the chances of being reported and landlord fined are pretty slim. My motivation for this post is to be able to provide information to a landlord when/if I can actually locate a warehouse and ask him/her to allow me to live there for a while.", "replies": [], "depth": 4}], "depth": 3}], "depth": 2}], "depth": 1}, {"id": "ixaajxq", "text": "You\u2019re looking for \u2018live-work\u2019 as a permitted or conditional use. Use eCode to look up the municipal zoning ordinance, both the base zoning and any overlays or redevelopment plans. Look up the zoning map online to find what applies to your parcel. LA should have a sophisticated enough Planning Dept that maintains Arc Online maps for public and easy use. If it\u2019s an existing nonconforming use then you may be allowed subject to constraints.", "replies": [{"id": "ixayrcj", "text": "Thank you so much! Is eCode a website?", "replies": [{"id": "ixegahu", "text": "Yep.", "replies": [], "depth": 3}], "depth": 2}], "depth": 1}, {"id": "ixaiepq", "text": "Los Angeles has ZIMAS a pretty robust and searchable zoning map. I'd start there. You can click through the zoning links to get info on each parcels ability to allow residential usage. There are lots of adaptive reuse zoning overlays and incentive zones in LA so be sure to dig in to the research. And yes there are many live/work loft type buildings throughout the downtown area.", "replies": [{"id": "ixb00nh", "text": "Thank you for your input. I'm very curious how the new \"post-Covid\" housing crisis has affected these laws, if at all. It would seem to me that landlords could be renting some of these spaces to people for residency under these unusual circumstances. Now I wonder if penalties would be as harsh considering homelessness has increased so much in the last three years.", "replies": [], "depth": 2}], "depth": 1}, {"id": "ixal0sa", "text": "Zoning may allow both commercial and residential uses in an area, but that doesn't mean the city will let you live in a warehouse. Building codes and certificates of occupancy still apply even in mixed use zones. By the time a warehouse is modified to meet residential/housing codes, it's not a warehouse anymore, it's an apartment with ugly siding.", "replies": [{"id": "ixazb8b", "text": "So you're saying that a landlord must modify his or her building to meet residential/housing codes and cannot allow residency if this is not done, regardless of whether or not the area allows mixed-use?  He/she can still be fined?", "replies": [{"id": "ixb0786", "text": "Yes.", "replies": [{"id": "ixb19xy", "text": "Well, that's not good news :-(", "replies": [{"id": "ixej23d", "text": "Well, it's good news if you value health and safety. Warehouses are not houses.", "replies": [], "depth": 5}], "depth": 4}], "depth": 3}], "depth": 2}], "depth": 1}, {"id": "ixb2oo1", "text": "Very tough to convert.  Even dividing a larger warehouse space into multiple smaller commercial spaces require 2 fire stairs or fire stairs and a fire escape, both of which are accessible from each partitioned space without having to travel through someone else's space.  Of course each space needs a regulated number of fire sprinklers.\n\nI could never understand why any owner would take such a risk as these buildings don't have the hvac, plumbing or fenestration required in residential.  I didn't even know it was a thing until the Ghost Ship tragedy.", "replies": [{"id": "ixb4dkx", "text": "You'd be surprised then by how many warehouses are occupied by people like me. Artists or small-biz owners who don't mind the lack of amenities (I lived in mine for five years with no shower). I chose the lifestyle because I was paying for a large 2-bd/2-ba apartment in addition to my shop, with two sets of bills, so it was a big waste of money for me since I never spent any time in the apartment. I simply converted one of the offices into a bedroom and the rest of it was a workspace. I was in heaven and I would do anything to have that again (this time I'd install a shower, though LOL).", "replies": [{"id": "ixejt8z", "text": "The thing is, you weren't doing any of that legally. \n\nIf you want to rent a warehouse with an office and sleep in the office, no one's going to stop you as long as the rent gets paid and you don't attract any attention. But it will be a violation of the lease and a violation of building codes, which exist to protect you.\n\nIf you're fine living alone and not having parties, I'd say it's an option as long as you're aware of the consequences, which include getting kicked out if the landlord discovers that you're living there.\n\nAdding a shower is generally something you're allowed to do regardless, lots of people want to clean up before they go home. Even if home is just the former office space.", "replies": [{"id": "ixf621y", "text": "Yes, I am painfully aware of these facts. In a perfect world, I would be able to afford two separate rents; one for my residence and one for my business. Living in a cold warehouse with no shower or kitchen is not my first choice, but since we are in fact experiencing a very real housing crisis with ever-skyrocketing rents, then one must do what one must do to survive. OF COURSE I don't want to live anywhere illegally under the constant fear of being caught and evicted. I want to find one that allows me to be there legally, that's why the post. I know the chances of finding one (in time) are very slim, but I must try because houses are even more expensive right now.", "replies": [], "depth": 4}], "depth": 3}], "depth": 2}], "depth": 1}, {"id": "ixb7478", "text": "What is your budget? There is the old Pabst brewery in Lincoln heights that is now an arts colony full of dirty smelly hippies but the beer bar there is really well done. \n\nIndustrial real estate even crappy real estate is super expensive on so cal. It would probs be cheaper to live in an office building. \n\nYou can pm me if you want. I am not a broker, they work for money, but the research guy who spends time on Reddit.", "replies": [], "depth": 1}, {"id": "ixg15if", "text": "You're dealing with zoning in L.A. Whew....get ready for the brain damage.", "replies": [], "depth": 1}]