How much do you pay for attorneys for a 10 unit apartment building priced at $1 million?
How much do you pay for attorneys for a 10 unit apartment building priced at $1 million?

Do you pay upfront or do you pay at closing?
[{"id": "gn8oslu", "text": "I\u2019m confused. Do you mean title agent (can sometimes use real estate attorneys) and loan fees? There are no attorneys involved in purchasing a 10-Plex. Not in any cases I have experienced. Located in the mid west.", "replies": [{"id": "gn8po7f", "text": "So who drafts/ negotiates the sales agreement?\n\nDo people use the standard MLS forms for smaller deals like a 10-plex?\n\nI thought there is no title insurance for commercials deals (but maybe it applied only to bigger commercial transactions) so people hire attorney to do your own title search.", "replies": [{"id": "gn8r0g2", "text": "Do you have a title company you like? I trust my guy, so anything that extends beyond the typical I have him call his real estate attorneys for a second opinion. \n\nYou could involve a commercial real estate attorney for guidance as well, unless this is a \u2018for sale by own\u2019 type or business to businesses deal? If you are going to be using those forms, you should probably let an agent do this deal.\n\nI have drafted my own generic forms and do deals without agents (I am a residential agent anyway).\n\nLife is different beyond 4 units, yes. Commercial everything is more expensive, but not extremely different than a residential/4-Plex deal. \n\nI am located in Ohio.", "replies": [{"id": "gn8rgdl", "text": "do you use standard MLS sales agreement forms for say 10-plex?\n\nAlso, do you do LOIs for 10-plex?", "replies": [{"id": "gn8uf11", "text": "I don\u2019t use standard forms but I am also in the Wild West hill billy nowhere 30 min outside of Cincinnati. Mainly blue collar. I am curious. If you have done deals like this before and have landlorded a while, tell me to shut up. Otherwise, let me ask you this:\nWhat is average rent per unit?\nWhat is annual rate of vacancy/unit?\nReal estate tax?\nHeating method and cost?\nType and age of roof?\nBrick or siding?\nI wonder what your potential cap rate is on a million dollar 10-Plex.\n\nMy biggest shock moving from residential to commercial was insurance costs. They nearly 5x\u2019d for worse coverage. I am obsessed with insurance, but a commercial umbrella made more sense than keeping greater insurance on the building. At least that was how it was for me.", "replies": [{"id": "gnassi0", "text": "How do you get a loan with umbrella policies? I understand them for exceptional liability scenarios but isn\u2019t regular insurance required for most umbrella policies?", "replies": [{"id": "gnausiq", "text": "Yes, of course. But get basic coverage (the minimum they require for an umbrella policy). I have 1M coverage on every single-family rental then commercial for 4M as of today. I switched from 2M. My coverages are necessary basic, but they could be more on the commercial side. My residential rentals are insured out the ass.", "replies": [], "depth": 7}], "depth": 6}, {"id": "gnb2xrv", "text": "Get a new insurance broker. That isn\u2019t what I have experienced. 4 plexs are more expensive per unit than 10units", "replies": [{"id": "gnb3dnf", "text": "I guess I should clarify. I was comparing a 4-Plex and a 5-Plex. Quote went from 1k ish to 5k ish for the year. Who do you shop with? I have StateFarm.", "replies": [], "depth": 7}], "depth": 6}], "depth": 5}], "depth": 4}], "depth": 3}, {"id": "gnc33dn", "text": "Contrary to another post, YES, you\u2019re real estate attorney will review and comment on the draft purchase and sale agreement which typically originated from the seller\u2019s attorney. \n\nAll closing fees, including your attorney, are often dependent on the complexity of the transaction and therefore the level of their involvement and number of docs to review, draft and finalize. The fee is also dependent on where you live. I\u2019m in NYC and our rates are that much higher than say, CNY. \n\nFeel free to request proposals from a few different attorneys and if they are all about the same, select the one you vibe with the most. If they are disparate, don\u2019t fall cheapest. You get what you pay for usually. Good luck!", "replies": [], "depth": 3}], "depth": 2}], "depth": 1}, {"id": "gn8yrax", "text": "Prices vary by location and depends on what they need to do.", "replies": [], "depth": 1}, {"id": "gn98exc", "text": "I think you are talking about a closing attorney and are paid at closing.  They would be representing the lender if any.  They do not negotiate the purchase and sale agreement however you can hire an attorney to draft one for you.   You can also use MLS forms though they may not be best for your situation.  What state are you buying the property?", "replies": [], "depth": 1}, {"id": "gn9jrp0", "text": "My attorney runs me 750 per transaction, but that's not accounting for title company kick backs. A 10 unit is not a difficult transaction and should run a similar value. \n\nChicago", "replies": [{"id": "gn9yj67", "text": "Might be talking about title company \u201cfees\u201d considering \u201ckick backs\u201d are illegal.", "replies": [], "depth": 2}], "depth": 1}, {"id": "gna3qmk", "text": "I\u2019m a commercial real estate attorney. I handle LOI, negotiate PSA, review due diligence, draft Amendment to PSA. Review title and exceptions. Form the SPE, review property management agreement. Flat fee of $6,500 in Texas. \n\nThis is separate and in addition to any title company fees.", "replies": [{"id": "gnetcem", "text": "My god. In Quebec I can't FATHOM paying that much for those services. Around half would be more standard. Luckily, we pay for it on transfer tax (30k on a 1.4m building)", "replies": [{"id": "gnevh2v", "text": "Our returns tend to be much better. I know many Canadians investing in the US the reverse.", "replies": [], "depth": 3}], "depth": 2}], "depth": 1}, {"id": "gnal78l", "text": "Did one of your tenants steal the shower heads when they left?", "replies": [{"id": "gnbth7f", "text": "Maybe they left the walls dirty. Like, super dirty.", "replies": [], "depth": 2}], "depth": 1}, {"id": "gnbdx4v", "text": "I always have my attorney review loan docs to make sure there\u2019s no funny business. Usually takes him a ~5 -10 hours to bounce docs back and forth. Costs me a few thousand bucks. More if our team is busy and I have him review surveys, drop and swap deeds etc.", "replies": [], "depth": 1}, {"id": "gnbfezu", "text": "Real estate attorney here - this info is biased because I only get involved with disgusting messy fucked up deals but I can easily ring up 50k. Depending on where you are, no frills contract title closing should run 5kish", "replies": [], "depth": 1}, {"id": "gnek3mo", "text": "Not sure about the price but you could probably get financial options about the payment. Up to you if you want to get it over with or bundle it with your mortgage payment, which would be paid in the first few years or so, then your payment would return to normal. It's open to negotiation.\n\nThe closing costs would be interest free to a certain extent.", "replies": [], "depth": 1}, {"id": "gnemtwz", "text": "These comments are all pertinent. Essentially, it varies. I didn't see anyone bring up more organization level attorney fees, like operating agreements and PPM docs. These may also come into play.", "replies": [{"id": "gnf2urs", "text": "I always assumed that these work handled by a separate attorney. Do you the fee of these things?", "replies": [], "depth": 2}], "depth": 1}, {"id": "gnf3z31", "text": "They are a cost of doing business. These costs must be accounted for somewhere. It depends on the structure of your company.", "replies": [], "depth": 1}, {"id": "gniagij", "text": "Just work with an agent he will take care of everything.", "replies": [], "depth": 1}, {"id": "gnjg8hs", "text": "Ask different attorneys", "replies": [], "depth": 1}]