Question for Brokers - Trying to Determine Potential Demand for Consulting Services
Hi All,

I'm considering providing consulting services for my region (major metro with suburbs) on local incentive programming where I would advise on existing programming and act as a representative for assistance-seekers to local governments.  Most of these programs are retail-oriented or restaurant-oriented. I have imagined that my clients would largely come from new, relocating or expanding businesses that are in the process of identifying a location.  

Do you think there is potential demand for these services and would you be interested in recommending/utilizing them?  

Context is that I have expertise in public incentives and incentive agreement negotiation and am trying to find a way to put this knowledge to use.

Thanks for your thoughts and help!
[{"id": "hoy6e0n", "text": "Would you charge a percentage of incentive?", "replies": [{"id": "hoy702b", "text": "No, likely an hourly fee w/ cap or flat rate.", "replies": [{"id": "hoy7cl2", "text": "At least with the smaller side of life that I am more familiar with, I think it would be a tough road.", "replies": [{"id": "hoy7x66", "text": "Yep, I hear ya.  My experience is working with larger developments looking for custom incentives.  My thought was to bring the same type of service to smaller clients for smaller incentives.  Unsure if given the smaller size of incentive if there would be demand/interest for it though.", "replies": [{"id": "hoy8eiu", "text": "I think if you charged a percentage, you would be busy.\n\nBut if a small shop paid you, and then did not get the incentive \u2026 would leave a bad taste.", "replies": [{"id": "hoy9v8m", "text": "Good advice, thanks.  I'm not opposed to a percentage, most programming is very specific about how funds are used though.  I'd be fine w/ a no fee if nothing is received.  \n\nAre you a broker?  Do you think this is something you'd tell a client about or suggest to pursue?", "replies": [], "depth": 6}], "depth": 5}], "depth": 4}], "depth": 3}], "depth": 2}], "depth": 1}, {"id": "hoynd1l", "text": "How big is the market? Typically for small municipalities just going to the website will provide a list of grants to apply for. \n\nLarger metro regions can be more complex. And I suppose a firm with zero time could use assistance with working through the applications.\n\nI would also consider thinking nationally. The programs that people often need the most help with (in my experience) are the federal ones. For example, ARPA funding. This is relief funding that was just passed. I was considering applying to help rehab a strip of mom and pop store fronts but the site is fucking confusing. For a reasonable price (and if I was applying for enough funds) I would 100% hire a consultant. The good thing about the federal programs is that, while they may vary slightly when the money is ultimately administered by the state or city, the framework remains the same. So you at least don't have to have an intimate knowledge of all the incentive programs in a region. I think it will be incredibly difficult to do. \n\nI think your skills would transfer to the above \"job\".\n\nDo you have any examples of the programs you are thinking of?", "replies": [{"id": "hoysnm5", "text": "I'm in Chicago Metro so \\~200 municipalities.  I've compiled information on most municipal programming like facade grant programs or sales tax rebate criteria.  Basically, that information that is hyper local that you can just go to the municipality's website and look up but all in one place.  \n\nI'm now trying to figure out who is that valuable to (besides myself) and was thinking brokers and their clients when looking at multiple locations.", "replies": [{"id": "hoytkhk", "text": "Hmmm ... So I recently dealt with this decision. There was a grant for facade work. But the total available funding was only 50k. Each award was only going to be bt 1 and 5k. I think you'd have price it based on % of award. Bc if it was an hourly rate and you cost 300 bucks to apply and I'm only awarded 1k....not worth it. \n\nAnd so I think you'll find in the smaller municipalities it won't be worth it. Sounds like you have a database of sorts. I was thinking a website might be a more useful resource.", "replies": [{"id": "hoyuv5l", "text": "Yep, I hear ya.  Most awards are in the $5,000 range.  It seems like most businesses are unaware that they are available though which is unfortunate.\n\nThe website a good idea.  I was thinking something like that too but would like to monetize it enough to at least cover maintenance and some of the time I put into keeping it up.  I'm not sure if a subscription model would really work.", "replies": [{"id": "hoyvn3j", "text": "100% municipal websites suck. And these grants are administered through obscure departments sometimes. But it's certainly a cost/benefit decision. Which is why I think federal programs could be more lucrative! Bigger awards. Also, re website. Idk about subscription either cuz how often are you realistically searching for these incentives?", "replies": [{"id": "hoyw5wa", "text": "Yep, I'll explore it more.  It's particularly a good time with the amount of assistance that's still being made available.\n\nThanks for your thoughts!", "replies": [], "depth": 6}, {"id": "hp1ut5q", "text": "&gt; Idk about subscription either cuz how often are you realistically searching for these incentives?\n\nFor brokers and site selection folks daily.  \n\nI think a model where they can pay a sub then pull reports of incentives for different areas would be very lucrative.  If I were op id offer consulting on top of that.\n\nI'm kind of curious what your background is op?  Do you have a law license?  Even as a broker we may negotiate some of this or make clients aware but the actual filling out applications gets real gray area and typically punts to attornies or is client work.  Not saying you cant do what you propose, id just make sure you figure out where the lines are you have to stay in.\n\nThe nature of what you are doing gives you some liability since all this is public money and cities.  When one of your clients takes an incentive check, doesnt deliver, and the locals get pissed I wouldn't want to get my name forewarded to an ag or prosecutor because you signed or filled out an app for instance", "replies": [{"id": "hp1zvlp", "text": "I suppose. But if you're a broker working in a region, you know the cities. These types of grants change typically on a yearly basis. It's not gonna require looking on a daily basis. \n\nI highly doubt the applications in small cities need an attorney to fill out. Perhaps you need some more specific knowledge to work through a tax rebate application. But again, you will typically seek help from whoever at the city is administering the program. If you have errors and omissions insurance you'll be fine. At most, you could be blamed for not getting the reward. But for someone to pursue damages, they would have to prove you intentionally tried to sabotage the effort. Any sort of compliance issues will fall on the owner who ultimately needs to be in compliance after they receive the funds. You won't get dragged before an AG even in situations with tens of millions on the line. There's always a chance to remedy.", "replies": [{"id": "hp2ac0m", "text": "I'm not super familiar with Chicago but I kind of get what OP is saying there.  I practice in Cincinnati and our msa covers 3 states and probably 200+ municipalities/counties/other gov entities that give grants etc.  No one knows all those.  I know the major ones for the city of cincinnati and the state ones but if someone can go two streets over and get into a different township or city and get a 20k grant for some random business I wouldn't necessarily know that (nor would most people).  There are probably 0 people that know that info for all entities.  It is the kind of thing you call the development office for the place you are looking at either when listing or making an offer and discuss.\n\nE&amp;O typically doesn't cover illegal acts.  I'm not really pointing out liability for the grants their self or that op has some responsibility that his clients perform, but just more so I don't think you want to be in the position of having a viable business and a client does something dumb that gets the city attorneys attention and all of a sudden you are answering questions about your qualifications and what authority you had to apply in the first place on behalf of a client.\n\nTo look at it another way, say OP was asking about consulting on divorces.  Nothing wrong with that, lots of people do it.\n\nMaybe you have therapists who tell people how to feel, how to structure their life, and give advice etc.\n\nMaybe you have a CFA who will buy and sell assets on their behalf to prepare.\n\nMaybe you have a CPA who will do the tax filings and explain the consequences and give consultation related to this.\n\nNo one but an attorney is going to file their actual divorce though.  The CPA also isn't going to fight with their insurance company that they need an anti depressant covered, and the CFA isn't going to sign their tax return.  \n\nIts a bit of a stay in your own lane thing, and in particular here where referrals are probably going to come from people who do have licenses and specific knowledge it be much better to develop a relationship with an attorney to do actual filings.\n\nThats why I was curious what licenses op actually has, as what services they offer would depend a bit on that.", "replies": [{"id": "hp2k8nm", "text": "Yes, but there's a difference between not delivering 100% on a promise while making a good faith effort and intentionally misusing funds.\n\nThe E&amp;O would cover any errors made during the application process. Any illegal act that the client carried out after would not be on OP. Their role ends when they successfully assist the client in submitting their application. Perhaps that was confusing; I thought the client would still submit but OP would fill out a draft, make connections, and facilitate the process. I use people like this all the time in my work and they do not have law licenses. \n\nI recently received a large award of historic tax credits. The consultant who actually applied for us (now that I think about it) was maybe an architect? They managed the entire award process. If I fuck up or use the funds illegally that's on me. Not the consultant. I totally agree to stay in your lane but consulting on grant and subsidy applications is common.\n\nI actually now agree that subscription to a site might be worth it for some.", "replies": [{"id": "hp6thxh", "text": "Exceptionally helpful conversation.  Thank you both for the dialogue.\n\nI don't have a law license.  When I worked as a consultant in this space I said \"I'm not an attorney\" a lot.  We would advise and attorneys would sign off.  It's a great point that it's important to stay in your lane and make it clear what your lane is.\n\nIf I were doing this in the local $5,000 facade grant space I don't think an attorney is viable nor needed on the client side.  The agreements made between the local governing body and awardee are pre-determined by policy and aren't negotiated.  If you don't like the terms then don't apply type of a thing.\n\nIf acting as a representative for the client w/ the local government I'd be a glorified form filler and first-person contact between the client and the local government.  There may be some value to the \"I don't have to think about\" piece of this?  I think the real value is in having the comprehensive information on programming.  \n\nIt's sounding like there would be interest in that knowledge, which is news that's making my week.", "replies": [], "depth": 10}], "depth": 9}], "depth": 8}], "depth": 7}], "depth": 6}], "depth": 5}, {"id": "hozgudf", "text": "Small dollar amount of awards makes it difficult to justify getting a 3rd party involved and even then they would want your fees to be minimal to justify involving a 3rd party to help them apply. \nAs others have suggested paying a percentage of the awarded funds is the low risk high reward to a business. \nAnother business model is like a lawyer to have a fixed retainer fee to fill out forms and limited lobbying / follow up assistance to help get the grant approved. \nThe downside is that once someone is aware of a grant they will probably have the same guy applying for permits fill out the grant application.\nThe hard part is telling people they are eligible for grants, but convince them they should pay you to fill out the paperwork instead of doing it themselves.\nI would recommend reaching out to property management companies instead of brokers because property management companies have more control over a buildings improvements funds to try and get the grant money to save on those improvements. Usually a building owner/property management company completes the tenant renovations and bills back the expenses through the lease to the tenant.\nAlso It would also make sense to try to reach out to regional chain businesses where it would make sense to help them with applying for grants at multiple locations and you could justify a higher billing rate to the business.", "replies": [], "depth": 5}], "depth": 4}], "depth": 3}], "depth": 2}], "depth": 1}, {"id": "hoyud39", "text": "A lot of law firms have teams that exclusively do this.", "replies": [{"id": "hoyvm5g", "text": "Can you expand?  What kind of law firms and when do they do this (i.e. during transaction? entitlement or zoning process?)  Do you have an example firm I can look at?", "replies": [{"id": "hpgpos6", "text": "If a law firm does municipal bond work, they probably have a group doing this as well to leverage the existing relationships. Often the same guys who get entitlements will participate in the incentive procurement as well on large deals.", "replies": [], "depth": 3}], "depth": 2}], "depth": 1}, {"id": "hozp00q", "text": "As a broker id find that very useful.", "replies": [], "depth": 1}, {"id": "hozswp5", "text": "So I\u2019m not a broker, but I perform site acquisition for an F500 focused on large scale industrial development. We also have a retail team who focuses on expansion. Both sides of the business are constantly looking for local knowledge and assistance with incentives.", "replies": [], "depth": 1}]