The lack of effort in CRE marketing
Hey, guys
 
I just wanted to address something I have noticed, and I am sure all you have noticed over the years as well. The lack of effort behind a lot of marketing in CRE. 

Now many national brokerages have great marketing teams that create solid material. However, in my brief career in CRE I have noticed so much marketing material that is laughable. For example, many times on Loopnet when I see a property listing there is only one or two pictures and they are extremely low quality. I have seen blurry pictures that look like the person didn’t even get out of their car and took it while driving by. 

It’s a testament that this industry is run by many dinosaurs who are still slow to adapt to technology. Of course, this is most common among small local groups. I work for a small local group as well and we take marketing very seriously, all our properties have drone footage, high quality pictures, and clean brochures. 

I just find it ridiculous there are owners out there trusting the sale of a multi-million dollar asset with people who wouldn’t be bothered to take one quality photo or make a brochure that looks decent.

Whenever I put together a video for a property I’ll post it to LinkedIn. Every time I get multiple brokers and developers emailing me “great content who does your work” (I do the work). Which makes me think there is definitely a need for a possible side business I could create haha.
[{"id": "fek50hb", "text": "There are other elements to think about. Large properties are often sold through the more traditional marketing of the industry: networking and your connections. Some buyers see highly produced marketing materials as a signifier that the property needs that sort of marketing to sell, that there is less upside, that everyone knows about it.", "replies": [], "depth": 1}, {"id": "fek5we8", "text": "The problem is you are looking at Loopnet. Nobody serious uses or cares about LoopNet. \n\nOn the rare occasions I bother looking at loopnet, yes there may be properties with limited information. If they are listed their at all. Most aren't.\n\nBut when I look at the real listing they have marketing packages and full information.", "replies": [{"id": "fek7xpa", "text": "What a ridiculous comment. LoopNet certainly leaves a lot to be desired and you can question the ethics/integrity of the company but to say that nobody serious uses or cares about LoopNet is a stretch to put it mildly.", "replies": [{"id": "feka6ek", "text": "When loopnet only has a small fraction of marketed listings I think it's fair to say that it isn't a serious venue.\n\nIt's like treating Craigslist a serious place to list residential properties instead of on the local MLS and then complaining that it only allows a few photos to be posted.", "replies": [{"id": "fekapc6", "text": "1.)  I don't accept your premise that Loopnet has only a small fraction of marketed listings.\n\n2.) What percentage do you consider a small fraction.\n\n3.) What online commercial real estate marketplace has a larger fraction and gets more eyeballs than Loopnet/Costar?\n\nTo compare Loopnet to Craigslist borders on the absurd.", "replies": [{"id": "fekbhnz", "text": "&gt;I don't accept your premise that Loopnet has only a small fraction of marketed listings.\n\nIt's not about you \"accepting\" the premise. It's a simple fact. Pick your product and compare even what's listed on Costar vs on Loopnet.\n\nI actually just checked this the other day when someone over in /r/realestateinvesting was talking about Loopnet.\n\nLoopnet has maybe 20% of actively marketed properties in my market \n\nI think there is real confusion among laypeople about what Loopnet is. Costar bought out Loopnet to shutdwon an upstart and has deprecated it ever since. It's an abandoned consumer facing portal nobody cares about.", "replies": [{"id": "fekc09d", "text": "I'm very familiar with the relationship between Costar and Loopnet and I pay both entities an obscene amount of money each month.  The notion that nobody serious cares about Loopnet is flat out wrong.", "replies": [{"id": "fekco3z", "text": "Sorry to have rustled your jimmies so much.\n\nI amend my comments to reflect that /u/Ahtown1980 has given loopnet lots of money, is a serious person,  and cares very much about loopnet.", "replies": [{"id": "fekdi3b", "text": "You realize that Loopnet IS the marketing arm right? That every who broker who lists in the Loopnet/Costar universe pays Loopnet per listing with the price based on how much exposure they want.", "replies": [], "depth": 8}, {"id": "fekmmr3", "text": "LOL, I dunno what the other guys problem in. In my opinion \nLoopnet = Craigslist. It is a free to use site and the only time you are using it, is when the landlord is so unsophisticated that he demands that you put it everywhere. \n\nSeriously, do you know how many loopnet leads are pure garbage?\n\nIt probably works for smaller retail leases, but how many fortune 500 companies are looking through loopnet for their 300K requirement? How many Class A office leases have occurred because of Loopnet?  \n\nCostar is dumping a bunch of money trying to convince people to use loopnet since it is their cash cow.", "replies": [], "depth": 8}, {"id": "fem1ab5", "text": "I'm with you on this. Listing properties/buying properties off of loopnet is bottom of the barrel. Most sales or purchases don't even hit the \"open market\". If I have someone that wants to purchase property in an area I am cold calling every property that fits that I can find. I am calling brokers I know. Most of the time I am finding someone who wasn't actively looking to sell, but was open to an offer.\n\nOne thing loopnet does ok at is tenancy. I use loopnet to find vacant spaces for clients and its a good starting point to check on comps.", "replies": [], "depth": 8}], "depth": 7}], "depth": 6}], "depth": 5}], "depth": 4}], "depth": 3}, {"id": "fekcbh2", "text": "Not ridiculous at all. If you are a serious CRE investor, you don't buy off LoopNet. LoopNet is where deals go after all the serious guys take a pass. I would say 9/10 listings on LoopNet ended up there after a broker failed to garner interest from any qualified buyers through a traditional marketing process. \n\nI own over 100 commercial properties and am constantly buying and selling and have never once in my career bought anything I found on LoopNet, though i've looked at plenty. It is widely considered the garbage bin of the CRE world.", "replies": [{"id": "fem4oy3", "text": "There are plenty of times where deals get listed with shitty, incompetent, or unfocused brokers who don't have the knowledge or connections in the space to adequately market and put in front of the right people. I do infill land, and can find some pretty decent deals off the open market  because some dullard broker got the listing for a large industrial/office/retail/resi property with fantastic site dimensions, proper zoning, and a reasonable price (from a land basis). Those brokers don't have 200 of the most qualified developers to directly call on, and don't have a client base that would move at their asking price.\n\n&amp;#x200B;\n\nThere is definitely opportunity for arbitrage in this space, and the more naunced or niche brokers can have success. Doubly so for the MLS as almost no serviceable developers track it, but I occasionally find a killer deal for my guys cause some unqualified resi broker has no clue about what they are selling. About to close on a $20mm land deal that has been on the open market for 10 years because the brokers hired were dullards and wholly unqualified to handle it. My buyer is a major institutional player, and had seen it briefly before, but passed because they never had someone adequately explain why it works for them.\n\n&amp;#x200B;\n\nMost brokers/investors discounting the opportunity is why opportunity still exists.", "replies": [{"id": "fenb0mk", "text": "Agree, there is definitely diamonds in the shit stack, but lets acknowledge that in order to find them, you are wading through shit...", "replies": [], "depth": 5}], "depth": 4}, {"id": "fem60s6", "text": "You\u2019re getting presented with deals for most all of these 100 from agents/brokers and that know you\u2019re a legit buyer and upon the strength of your reputation?", "replies": [{"id": "fenbf1h", "text": "Yes we have a strong reputation and are well known in our market. We have strong broker network as well as a network with private property owners. If you're a new entrant to the market and have the capital to buy deals, its not hard to get a look from a broker - you may have to overpay for your first deal to prove you are real, especially if there is no track record, but for most deals brokers will give you a fair look if you can prove you have the dough to close.", "replies": [], "depth": 5}], "depth": 4}, {"id": "fjat85u", "text": "hey commenting on an old post but random question for you. given that you have 100+ commercial properties, i am curious if you have found any creative ways to make additional sources of revenue on the properties or as a company with that many holding.\n\ni am working for a small development company now with just a few commercial holdings so I am trying to find ways to help them do better. Any insight is greatly appreciated!", "replies": [{"id": "fjaxzu3", "text": "top additional revenue sources for commercial properties i can think of:\n\n1. cell towers - lease an easement to a company to build and maintain a cell tower on the lot. can produce anywhere from $5k to $50k of additional rental income, though it does encumber the property with easements and makes it more difficult to redevelop in the future.\n2. billboards - own a billboard and rent space on it, or for less braindamage, lease the space to national operator (clear channel is the biggest) and let them do the work. Revenues vary a lot depending on how visible and disirable the location is. \n3. ATM - Not a lot of revenue can be generated from this, but for relatively small upfront investment a retail location can generate a good amount of fees from an ATM on site\n4. Solar - if there is a lot of unused roof space, such as on a typical industrial building or a big box retailer, you can rent the space to solar provider. Can be significant revenues depending on the local incentives for solar and the amount of space. Preferable if you have a brand new roof, will be harder to make work on a roof older than 5 years. \n\nnot sure if that answers your question. let me know.", "replies": [{"id": "fjc2ede", "text": "That is exactly what I was looking for, thank you very much! \n\nI am trying to find things like that both on larger commercial deals as well as smaller things like mixed use buildings where I am even finding simple answers like structuring tenant utilities differently on the lease or adding storage units etc.\n\nThanks a lot for your insights", "replies": [{"id": "fk3xa1g", "text": "Depends on your sub market but there is potential income in parking as well. If you have underutilized parking spaces in your properties theres a myriad of ways to monetize them, the most basic is to rent to a taxi or car rental/ car dealership for storage of vehicles.", "replies": [], "depth": 7}], "depth": 6}], "depth": 5}], "depth": 4}], "depth": 3}], "depth": 2}], "depth": 1}, {"id": "fek7o08", "text": "Most marketing is better than what people put on loopnet, and only distributed to their buyer\u2019s list. Loopnet is where properties go to die. \n\n\nThe old dinosaur mentality is prevalent, but I see it more in agents wanting to double end deals and not actually fully expose their clients property to the market.  \n\nInstead, they focus on finding a buyer that will make the agent the most amount of money regardless if it will make the seller the most.", "replies": [{"id": "fekruiy", "text": "Exactly sometimes I think it\u2019s more to get a double dip than anything else.", "replies": [], "depth": 2}, {"id": "fel1mzo", "text": "In the shortest amount of time", "replies": [], "depth": 2}], "depth": 1}, {"id": "fekbpmc", "text": "I agree. As seen by the differing opinions in the comments, everyone has an opinion on what\u2019s effective. And no one is really wrong. No one thing like photos will make or break a listing, and I don\u2019t agree with whoever said that better marketing means an inferior product. Many class A office buildings have amazing marketing. \n\nMy opinion is- what tenants are you and the owner trying to secure? A tech company looks at things differently than a warehouse user might, so I think the effort needs to be earlier in the process. Who is my target and how do I market this property to them? \u201cBuyer personas.\u201d Many things \u201chave always been done this way\u201d so why do something else. It\u2019s a lame mindset but works for many.", "replies": [], "depth": 1}, {"id": "fekhbmd", "text": "Couldn\u2019t agree more! When you\u2019re looking for residential RE you have about 50 times better options. How has nobody innovated this space?", "replies": [{"id": "fekmxuu", "text": "It is a business transaction. This is not fix or flip. People are making business decisions and don't care as much about how many pixels are on your brochure. \n\nI need a 100,000 SF building with thirty dock highs and 4,000 amps of power anywhere in a 10 mile radius of this location. Oh, and make sure the brochure looks pretty too!", "replies": [{"id": "fem1n88", "text": "This is exactly it. Or they are looking to tear it all down. The little strip center built in 1950's isn't what they are buying, they want the dirt to build the mixed use apartment building. No one cares about how the landscaping looks when it's going to be a hole in the ground.", "replies": [], "depth": 3}], "depth": 2}], "depth": 1}, {"id": "fekly36", "text": "Look at the profile pictures of your average commercial real estate broker. They have been using the same picture for 30 years! \n\nAnd Loopnet = Craigslist for CRE. \n\nNobody is spending $ to update their listing for their water store lease in the ghetto. \n\nOne thing that I have enjoyed is people putting dash cams on their construction sites. \n\nDedicated websites are getting better too. \n\nhttps://www.watsonlandcompany.com/center/watson-industrial-park-chino/\n\nThey got some videos as well. https://vimeo.com/189351212\n\nSo yes, your average Loopnet broker is putting old brochures out there, but the major developers are spending some serious $.", "replies": [], "depth": 1}, {"id": "feklyjy", "text": "\u201cThanks, the work is done by [CRE marketing company name], which I own.  Feel free to reach out at [email address].\u201d", "replies": [], "depth": 1}, {"id": "fekp2t6", "text": "There is definitely a need for more to be done. A lot of the people I work with just have a heavy reliance on other people to do the work which is why they\u2019re probably so behind. Perhaps this is an opportunity for you to monetize another area of the business. \n\nJust because I want to chime in on this LoopNet thing, it would shock you how many owners want to see their property on LoopNet and will yell and scream that it\u2019s not there. Yes it\u2019s not viable but I think that not everyone realizes it\u2019s not that great. I also know that the intention is for LoopNet is to shift a bit because a lot of major CRE firms have now been given a \u201cpost to LoopNet\u201d option via what CoStar since the two companies are now linked together. \n\nI however do agree, loopnet sucks, but it has proven to have some benefits.", "replies": [{"id": "fekqj6t", "text": "Yea I think what many of these guys that are saying \u201cLoopNet is crap no one looks there\u201d is missing my point. I know LoopNet is crap, what I\u2019m pointing out here is a lack of effort making brokers.", "replies": [{"id": "femnd8y", "text": "Brokers need to utilize every advertising channel that exists. All the market place websites, brochures, signage, internal contacts.", "replies": [], "depth": 3}, {"id": "fen9s4v", "text": "Yeah, there is such a lack of effort. When I was working more closely with pitches the amount of leg work and education I had to do going into a meeting was astounding. A lot of it was let\u2019s do the minimum but expect maximum results. That was honestly the biggest differentiator of the producers in our office. Those who made the investment and time to make it look good, get the ads, videos, etc definitely made way more money then the guys that slapped some pictures on an ad and hoped that sending it via email or snail mail would suffice.", "replies": [], "depth": 3}], "depth": 2}], "depth": 1}, {"id": "fel58tw", "text": "You are basing this on a narrow prism. The fact you know what Loopnet is negates this initial assessment. I'm certain they've invested considerable capital in marketing or you wouldn't have gone there. \n\nOn the broker/developer side. There are a lot of off-market deals that never hit the market but they do have superb p!tch decks for institutional lenders and UHNWI investors.", "replies": [], "depth": 1}, {"id": "felz4ws", "text": "CBRE, JLL, and sometimes Newmark have good marketing teams on staff (at least in major markets). Colliers tends to be leaner because their splits are better (i.e. support takes a hit, they pay people shit wages so have they less #s on their creative/research teams in local brokerage offices and instead try to rely on headquartered teams to farm out work across the country). Our service line has a marketing manager, marketing coordinators, a graphic designer, and admins that handle marketing stuff...just for us. And we're kind of lean compared to some places. Also some teams give their full team (including marketing) percentages of earnings, which puts them way above market...these days at least lol.\n\nBut I work in a major market and there are occasionally still big Class A assets where the admin is clearly slapping together a brokerage-branded template. We do have a couple small local CRE-focused creative agencies but their influence is dwindling now that the market is doing so well - our clients are working with bigger, flashier creative agencies in conjunction with our team. One of them was pretty good and has transitioned into work for local big corporations, the other is definitely losing their lease.", "replies": [], "depth": 1}]