Do you wish anti-monopoly action was taken against costar or does it benefit your business?
Just curious for everyone's thoughts on this.  Particularly brokers.

I noticed CoStar bought TenX last week.  After acquiring Loopnet and shutting XCeligent down they were already the only game in town here, and it seems like they are picking off the competition (if you can even call them that) while they are in the baby stages.

They just took off so quick and got so big.  https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/CSGP/costar/market-cap  They went from a pissant to basically 2x the cap of someone like CBRE in less than a decade.

Whats the end game here for those of us who are customers and see our costs go up every year?  Most of us are members of NAR, and possibly groups like CCIM, SIOR, etc.  The big brokerages/advisement firms aren't exactly small companies either.  If it became an issue of us lobbying against them it isn't impossible that you could get them some heat.

Do any of you worry about them launching their own brokerage/advisement services?  Or is that the red line they can't cross?

From the other side, it does make our services slightly more valuable since you basically either have costar or you don't and comping/analysis is pretty difficult without it.  It is near impossible for our clients to comp their own properties, find new locations etc without figuring that out.  It also adds a 5-10k barrier to entry for new agents depending on market and stuff.  If you figure some combo of that gets you a sale every few years it really isn't a horrible expense for protectionism.  

Just curious where you all see this going.
[{"id": "fra73nq", "text": "I personally think this is a problem of our own creation. I know at least in my shop and others I deal with (and is a much discussed topic) are fairly secretive with our information. We also inherently dislike paying for information we feel like we could get ourselves, but we do not have the resources to do it across multiple markets (especially that you don't deal in). \n\nCostar has expanded from just giving you info to more tools to analyze as they continue to grow, and that in itself is going to be hard to replicate in the short term IMO.\n\nI think what we will see is some of the brokerages themselves leveraging their own information, but also leveraging municipalities move to opening up info for api usage ,etc. \n\nOne of those solutions will need to creep into the public market as I think it'll be a herculean effort to start from scratch.\n\nI think when Costar bought Loopnet they had to divest Xcelligent to maintain competition. Xcelligent did us in when they got caught jacking info from Costar database. My shop was a customer of both at the time and considered just switching to Xcelligent. \n\nThat decision got made for us in the end..", "replies": [], "depth": 1}, {"id": "fra84il", "text": "As a retail broker, I\u2019ve always worried that CoStar would become its own brokerage firm to some degree. They\u2019re a data company (now) and won\u2019t be opening doors to show space, but they can certainly do a helluva job marketing a space based on their online presence, SEO, and the sheer number of leads they collect. I don\u2019t think it\u2019s far fetched for a landlord to one day hire CoStar to market a space as a listing agent, and the LL opens and shows the space himself, especially if the fees undercut those of a brokerage firm. Besides lease comps which are not public information, what other advantage does a broker truly bring to the table? I\u2019m sure CoStar could use its own data, and purchase data from other sources, to be able to paint a picture of what\u2019s happening in any given market. The need for boots on the ground seems less important.", "replies": [{"id": "frahhyy", "text": "I can definitely see them filling the leasing space at some point.  Tenant rep and landlord rep.", "replies": [{"id": "fram2q6", "text": "Outside of the top notch stuff and anchors/big box brokers even hate that stuff.  No offense to the retail brokers here but lets all be honest.  Do you all get excited about doing some 1500sf deal in some random suburban strip?   That crap just gets pawned off on junior brokers as training", "replies": [{"id": "frap5ju", "text": "I do 1200-2000sf stores all the time, mostly franchises, usually in an anchored center but not always. The only reason it\u2019s worthwhile is because they prefer better retail, and with that come higher rents and fees. But you\u2019ve gotta do waaaay too many of those kinds of deals to make a living, especially if you cobroke any of them, with a partner or listing broker. \n\nRetail brokerage was dying. COVID-19 was the death knell.", "replies": [{"id": "frar3h6", "text": "Higher cost of living im sure too but ny is a different game than most of the country as well.  Like in res you all have leasing brokers for apartments, that isnt a thing here.\n\nYour average suburban retail strip here is somewhere like 15 a sf.  Thats like 22 grand a year, those are going to be 3 year leases and you will have people wanting 1 year and wasting your time.  So 60k 6% if you get both sides, is 3600.  Toss 30% or more to the office and you are down to 2400.  They have a broker 1200.\n\nIt just doesnt work Tbh unless you get am, pm, or are handling sales for the owner.  When you do those things you put the newest guy on that ;)\n\nI'm in Cincinnati if you were curious.", "replies": [{"id": "frb1r6y", "text": "What do you mean by getting am and pm? Thanks btw", "replies": [{"id": "frb2u16", "text": "Asset management and property management.  I'm basically saying, at least here, those spaces cant be profitably brokered unless its a service you are providing in addition to others.", "replies": [{"id": "fslklje", "text": "What firm are you with?", "replies": [], "depth": 8}], "depth": 7}], "depth": 6}, {"id": "frck7do", "text": "In NY where I do most of my work, shop space ranges from low $20s up to $60psf NNN, with a lot of deals falling $30-$35psf NNN. But you still have to do an unsustainable volume of those. Hit a lot of singles but you gotta get some doubles or better year in/year out. \n\nI agree on the average B or C strip center. I don\u2019t really bother with small strip centers with low rents, and where sophisticated tenants won\u2019t bother looking. Helping a new business/tenant through their learning curve is a time suck", "replies": [], "depth": 6}], "depth": 5}], "depth": 4}, {"id": "frb0qhn", "text": "For bigger stuff, maybe no, but I can see costar penetrating office landlord rep space easily.  Especially in larger cities.  Most landlords are so sophisticated in bigger communities that they don\u2019t need 3rd party brokers necessarily if the marketing is available from a single source.", "replies": [{"id": "frcl11x", "text": "Retail LLs with a great location don\u2019t need a listing broker either. That\u2019s great for the TT rep broker to get a full fee, but that\u2019s just that much less business (the listing) or leads you can gain from said listing. And if your TT goes rogue and contacts the LL without you, good luck. That shit happens all the time. People aren\u2019t loyal and won\u2019t necessarily protect you, and TTS certainly aren\u2019t signing exclusive TT representation agreements anymore. It\u2019s a free for all, save for the few TTs, mostly corporate, who have been relying on the same shop or broker for YEARS in a given market and said broker basically does the RER\u2019s job for them. Local tenants typically search for sites themselves and are less likely to exclusively lean on any one broker.", "replies": [], "depth": 5}], "depth": 4}], "depth": 3}], "depth": 2}, {"id": "frbbxhv", "text": "I love this!", "replies": [], "depth": 2}], "depth": 1}, {"id": "fradihz", "text": "General thoughts on Costar from Mark Wahlberg, The Departed:\n\n\"My theory on ~~Feds~~  **Costar** is that they\u2019re like mushrooms, keep \u2019em in the dark and feed them shit.\"\n\nThx for calling CoStar, but we're not providing free information for you to sell. These guys need more competition, from the time they acquired LoopNet forward (04/27/11).", "replies": [], "depth": 1}, {"id": "frafp7j", "text": "What do you think a competitor like CREXi would need to do to surpass CoStar?", "replies": [{"id": "frahjza", "text": "Data is power.  Costar has soooo much data.  That\u2019s a big hill to climb.", "replies": [{"id": "franqrb", "text": "I think this might be wrong and it might really bite them in the ass.\n\nEveryone says this and co-star has soooo much data it seems like it makes sense?  Think about what data you use though.  When I do research depending on lots of things, I start maybe 18 months out then you know go more or less or see what comes up depending on results.  \n\nSo what about listings?  They got the data right?  Thats even worse.  Something like officespace.com is free because they give 0 fucks and have stuff that leased 5 years ago up. We pay for co-star because they call and update, as annoying as it is, very often.  When I pull a report and give it to a client something may have leased but 70% wont have.  \n\nThat data expires on a monthly basis almost.\n\nThey have a lot of data, but its value seems to diminish quickly.  Id say the value as a company is in the software and ability to collect that data in a timely fashion.  Costar obviously is the best there too.  \n\nWhats it cost to recreate that?  Its pretty far off their cap.  I dont think its impossible to have someone else enter that space.  \n\nWhat could be a real problem is good data is expensive and requires a lot of labor.  If you have competitors its possible the cost to everyone just goes up due to duplicate data", "replies": [{"id": "frb0isa", "text": "Their data is a huge asset for macro analysis, at least on the appraisal side.  Big brokerage houses could compete internally, but it\u2019s not worth it at this point.  I do like having a single aggregator of listing information and the ability to create analytics from it, but at least on our end we still see the data as skewed and take it with a grain of salt.  On the other side, I\u2019ve helped friends interested in leasing small space directly as it\u2019s just for a tiny shop space or bar, and they were able to go direct with the landlord.", "replies": [], "depth": 4}], "depth": 3}], "depth": 2}], "depth": 1}, {"id": "frahv4u", "text": "You know how Redfin is going to kill residential real estate. Yeah that is us. You give them the tools of your own destruction.", "replies": [{"id": "frb332x", "text": "&gt;You know how Redfin is going to kill residential real estate\n\nCompass has been saying the same thing for years and I still don't believe it. All these tech bros claim to have the market killer and it never seems to come to fruition. At best, they end up like all of their competitors.\n\nCo-Star is unique in that it's a tool for aggregate data in the commercial field. But, honestly, I always train my analysts to see through the bullshit and go directly to county or municipal records as a source. In my personal experience, I've found Co-Star to be wrong about its ownership data more often than it's been correct and the inability of Co-Star \"analysts\" to see through basic shell companies is shocking when a 30 second examination of a deed or transactional document tells you all you need to know. I honestly find Co-Star to be completely useless and I'd personally never pay for it from the principal/investments perspective.", "replies": [{"id": "fv75ody", "text": "How do you find out who owns properties when there\u2019s a registered agent that takes care of forming the entity that\u2019s unaffiliated with the actual owner?", "replies": [{"id": "fv7q979", "text": "If you can\u2019t find the principal from municipal records then a stressed out 22 year old at Co-Star won\u2019t be able to either. I can\u2019t tell you the number of times I\u2019ve seen Co-Star post false data on an owner or data that is so incorrect that it might as well be useless. Sometimes they post the names of \"actual owners\" that are merely just shell corporations of a shell holding corporation. That's not helpful.\n\nIn a real bind, you can always call the lawyers assigned to a shell corporation to ask them for ownership information of a building but I typically am able to ferret out who owns a building through municipal and transaction records easily with a little sleuthing. It doesn\u2019t take a genius to figure out that that \u201c1 West 1st Street\u201d is owned by John Smith because despite the existence of a shell because most property owners are not shy about the fact that they own a property. Newspapers typically carry transactional information. Financial instruments like debt notes have to be assigned to someone. Foreign owners of a big building will always have some sort of other method to contact them whether it be the assigned asset manager or lawyer.\n\nSo, in effect, I\u2019d argue that there isn\u2019t really a property that is truly unaffiliated with the actual owner.", "replies": [], "depth": 4}], "depth": 3}], "depth": 2}], "depth": 1}, {"id": "fraiy1p", "text": "I've talked with the RealMassive guys a couple of times. If you don't like CoStar you should reach outt for a tutorial or free demo.", "replies": [], "depth": 1}, {"id": "framlok", "text": "CoStar has a not-so-subtle mission to preclude the need for commercial real estate brokers, yet relies on the information they give them (that they in turn benefit from).  \n\nIt\u2019s a convoluted situation but the acquisition of Ten-X is a pretty bold step over the line separating \u201cdata aggregator\u201d from \u201cdeal generator.\u201d  In spite of how lazy and inaccurate much of their info is (at least in the multi family world), I feel no need to contribute to my profession\u2019s own hypothetical demise", "replies": [], "depth": 1}, {"id": "frb1h4p", "text": "Tangentially related to the thread, but I'm seeing a lot of brokers thinking CoStar is their demise.  Frankly, as a former appraiser and currently on the principal side, I can tell you that if the only value you bring to the table as a broker is gate-keeping info in your submarket, you're not a very good broker lol", "replies": [{"id": "frb2bxx", "text": "In fairness im not really worried about that.  I'm worried they will just charge me until all the profit is gone.  Its like if you are a truck driver and there is only one company that sells gas.  They will price to basically minimize your profit.  It doesnt mean people still dont need shit delivered or you dont provide that service, just bad news when a critical product you need is controlled by one person", "replies": [{"id": "frb2iol", "text": "Agreed.  I'm still bitter about Xcelligent.", "replies": [], "depth": 3}], "depth": 2}], "depth": 1}, {"id": "frbaxqq", "text": "I think the only reason Costar has the monopoly is because people *choose* to use it. I don't think competition is lacking, people just use it because everyone uses it, so they have to use it. Kind of off topic, but I wanted to say that.", "replies": [{"id": "frbbxrl", "text": "They use it because of the data they have.  For certain functions, it's not really a choice because the cost of capital or labor to recreate it is too great.  It's like saying PG&amp;E, Xcel, FPL, or whatever utility company you own doesn't have a monopoly, you just choose to use it.  You can use Sunrun or some other renewable energy company to power your home, but you *choose* to use the utility company instead. Same story, people are stuck with CoStar because it's where a lot of needed info is. Calling it in is basically unrealistic", "replies": [{"id": "frbcr0f", "text": "I suppose I overlooked the fact that they have so much data. Do you know if they own most of that data it is it mostly from public sources? I know tax records provide a decent amount but I'm sure there's a lot that they have that isn't available elsewhere", "replies": [], "depth": 3}], "depth": 2}], "depth": 1}, {"id": "frbouhi", "text": "Absolutely", "replies": [], "depth": 1}, {"id": "frbu6uu", "text": "Sorry,out of the loop here. Can somebody tell what data does Costar have that cannot be looked up for free on the county website.", "replies": [{"id": "frcer3x", "text": "Leasing. Lease rates vacancy rates op ex tenant names (Loopnet and Apartments.com)\n\nTrue owner and effectively a list of all properties owned by each developer, owner\n\nThat\u2019s just a couple I can think of.\n\nSoon to have STR data (Smith Travel was listed in one of their articles as a subsidiary iirc). If you do anything with hotels you know that STR is the only game in town.\n\nThe way they combine all of this data into fast and easy to access market analytics is untouchable.\n\nAdding: construction, planned and proposed project details. They also have interior finish materials for some properties.", "replies": [{"id": "frck2q2", "text": "Yes. Because they own LoopNet, and basically LoopNet is the MLS of CRE, they can create stacking plans of comps. The other thing is time, most big brokerages have a research team who can do all the cold calling, but it\u2019s a little tougher than that. They also don\u2019t have the years of data built up. CoStar\u2019s isn\u2019t the most accurate, but it\u2019s caused mostly by brokers lying or talking about something they don\u2019t know. Some counties also don\u2019t have online information, so you literally have to go to the county appraiser\u2019s office for some data in some counties. Some sale data is entity level, so it wouldn\u2019t be there.\n\nI guess with real cap and compstak, you can start getting to a major chunk of the data, but not everything. Neither also just have that building by building across asset type and class that they have. It\u2019s definitely a monopoly", "replies": [], "depth": 3}], "depth": 2}], "depth": 1}, {"id": "frhh1sh", "text": "I represent [CIMLS.com](https://CIMLS.com) , a CRE MLS, and I would just like to point out that we have been working on a big push to update our own data and keep it updated. We are continuously contacting counties across the nation to update our comparable data and syncing it with the listings brokers have posted on our site. If people are wanting to help the competition, the more listings placed in CIMLS will add to our data. It's free to add listings, and it can't hurt to gain more visibility.", "replies": [], "depth": 1}]