Caught my tenant living in a commercial building. What would you do?
I own a small commercial building- office/warehouse 2,900 sq/ft. I rent it to a guy with a small woodworking company. I suspect with a high level of certainty that the tentant and his wife are living in the building- they were living out of an RV when the lease was signed. I thought this was a little odd and was VERY CLEAR they could not use the building as a place to live. 

I understand times are tough, but this clearly breaks the lease, not to mention local ordinances and probably would void my property insurance policy as well?

I can easily find another tentant- but I do feel for the guy. What advice can you give me- as I’m new to this.

Thanks!
[{"id": "i0geq7v", "text": "Does this actually break any ordinances? Many areas also allow residential uses in commercially zoned properties.", "replies": [{"id": "i0gpb8i", "text": "This is also my question. Before kicking the guy out if his source of income, maybe check the facts. It's a rough situation. I'm sorry for both you and the tenant.", "replies": [], "depth": 2}, {"id": "i0gs6dz", "text": "The issue is building occupancy.  Different than zoning.", "replies": [], "depth": 2}, {"id": "i0he4yn", "text": "How can you tell if he lives there or if he\u2019s working nights?\n\nCan he take a nap between shifts?\n\nIt\u2019s a fine line, from his point of view.", "replies": [], "depth": 2}], "depth": 1}, {"id": "i0gfgfw", "text": "Why can't they live there? Are you not getting paid?\n\nDon't be an asshole", "replies": [{"id": "i0gwcp2", "text": "As somebody working in a permit office dealing with zoning regulations and building codes on a daily basis:\n\nThis is two fold, commercial zoning often allows for certain types of use that come with addutional health risks, this can be sound based but also more importantly due to the materials stored at a location. We often have specific zones surrounding those areas where there cannot be any homes what so ever.\n\nThe second part is building codes, mininum light standars, etc. etc. And most importantly  fire safety  standards are often lower.\n\n(Why do I say often? Because standards and regulations depend on jurisdiction).", "replies": [], "depth": 2}, {"id": "i0hpfgg", "text": "Why are you here. Do you have any knowledge on the subject matter or just here to project your virtues on to others?", "replies": [], "depth": 2}], "depth": 1}, {"id": "i0ggc0d", "text": "Compassionate response: they obviously need to get out of the lease for *their* sake, since they cannot afford housing. Better for them in the long run to find a solution elsewhere for their business. \n\nLawyerly response: notice to vacate, etc etc. \n\nI don\u2019t know that I\u2019ve ever seen an instance like this where the tenant was allowed to stay on, ending well. (I\u2019m sure it happens sometimes)\n\nIf they leave a toaster on overnight and it catches fire, you are Fucked with a capital F.", "replies": [{"id": "i0gl4ml", "text": "It\u2019s more common than people think, easier to live in industrial space than to work from your garage. It\u2019s likely needed for them for their income production.", "replies": [{"id": "i0gluo9", "text": "Commercial space sometimes doesn\u2019t cost as much as housing does if I\u2019m not mistaken. If it didn\u2019t it will soon with this housing market..", "replies": [{"id": "i0gmex1", "text": "PSF yeah, but if you want to run a business you often need more space than a garage. It\u2019s not ideal but it\u2019s what people who live PTP in small businesses often do.", "replies": [], "depth": 4}, {"id": "i0gxir7", "text": "Ah I see. Let alone coming from the RV OP said they originally were in..", "replies": [], "depth": 4}], "depth": 3}], "depth": 2}, {"id": "i0hny48", "text": "Aren\u2019t commercial spaces allowed to have a kitchenette?  I wouldn\u2019t be scared of a toaster unless it\u2019s in a policy that no cooking appliances can be on the property.", "replies": [], "depth": 2}, {"id": "i0in23s", "text": "As a lawyer, you probably have a selection bias of what is brought into your life based on having to litigate the weird stuff. No one is bringing you the everything went ok in the end stories.", "replies": [], "depth": 2}], "depth": 1}, {"id": "i0gi7o5", "text": "Living in a commercial space is against the law in most cities/areas. It is also, more than likely, against the terms of the Lease agreement. If something goes wrong, it is also possible your insurance won't cover any liability, damage or losses.", "replies": [{"id": "i0gj0a2", "text": "This is not advice. It\u2019s repeating OP\u2019s post.", "replies": [{"id": "i0iv30z", "text": "Oh yes, I was restating the OP's original post because the resolution is simple. Protect yourself and your ASSet(s) and evict the tenant.", "replies": [], "depth": 3}], "depth": 2}, {"id": "i0gl192", "text": "Do you even read.", "replies": [{"id": "i0grswr", "text": "dpatstr started off repeating, yes.  But, he did start towards giving actual advice--he just did not properly state his implied point, which I will do now:  \n\"Being sympathetic could end up costing you big.  If an incident occurs from his breaching habitation, insurance won't cover the damages.  Furthermore, the bum tenant doesn't have pockets either.\"", "replies": [{"id": "i0gs5c6", "text": "If the landlord doesn\u2019t know about it, it wouldn\u2019t be an issue. Being complicit is another story.\n\nI have seen insurance proceeds be paid, even when there has been obvious signs that a person is living on the premises.", "replies": [{"id": "i0gtbzv", "text": "The standard of proof an injured party must meet when suing the owner is not whether the owner ACTUALLY knew about the breach, but whether a reasonable Landlord WOULD have noticed the breach in the course of normal property management practices.   \n\n\nIf the LL has noticed it, chances are it can shown that a reasonable (hypothetical landlord) would have noticed the habitation given the circumstances.", "replies": [{"id": "i0gtifp", "text": "If the insurance company can show the LL should have known about it and did nothing, they can avoid indemnification, and LL is stuck with picking up the bill for whatever damages were incurred.   \n\n\n3 day notice, but remain a gentleman.  Chances are, the tenant knows what he's doing and just too lazy to sort out a proper living situation.  You may be doing him a favor by calling him out.", "replies": [{"id": "i0hm0hg", "text": "Let it go. Replying to your own comments is sad.", "replies": [{"id": "i0jvf2h", "text": "Take your own advice, especially when you're wrong.", "replies": [{"id": "i0k4z9y", "text": "Lots of drivel.", "replies": [{"id": "i0qb6ru", "text": "Quiet.", "replies": [], "depth": 10}], "depth": 9}], "depth": 8}], "depth": 7}], "depth": 6}], "depth": 5}, {"id": "i0ivhge", "text": "Wouldn't posting about it on Reddit give the likelihood that the landlord \"knows about it\"?", "replies": [{"id": "i0jlv6c", "text": "Yes, insurance agents know his reddit account", "replies": [], "depth": 6}], "depth": 5}], "depth": 4}], "depth": 3}], "depth": 2}], "depth": 1}, {"id": "i0gkg0o", "text": "As long as you have plausible deniability your good. Ask him in writing if he's living there. If he gives you a no, then you can show the email to your insurance company if they try some shit.\n\nI'd let it slide, particularly if he pays on time and is taking care of the place. He may be treating the place better because he's living in it.", "replies": [{"id": "i0gwss5", "text": "This is the advice that comes from actual wisdom. Came to share an anecdote, but the above comment sums it up better.", "replies": [{"id": "i0jqcqi", "text": "Pls share. Anecdotes are what make Reddit great", "replies": [], "depth": 3}], "depth": 2}, {"id": "i0h4ulf", "text": "I always assumed lawyers knew the difference between your and you're", "replies": [{"id": "i0hdza6", "text": "Failure to put a period at the end of a sentence? Believe it not, jail.", "replies": [{"id": "i0hey0v", "text": "r/unexpectedpawnee", "replies": [{"id": "i0heyyy", "text": "Here's a sneak peek of /r/unexpectedpawnee using the [top posts](https://np.reddit.com/r/unexpectedpawnee/top/?sort=top&amp;t=year) of the year!\n\n\\#1: [Entertainment 720 where dreams come, to come true](https://i.redd.it/cpjtd1kr4mo61.jpg) | [13 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/unexpectedpawnee/comments/masrp8/entertainment_720_where_dreams_come_to_come_true/)  \n\\#2: [My new office has a champagne vending machine.](https://i.redd.it/r3tce8q8a9t61.jpg) | [25 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/unexpectedpawnee/comments/mr6lla/my_new_office_has_a_champagne_vending_machine/)  \n\\#3: [Honestly it\u2019s expected at this point.](https://i.redd.it/cv1vu2tfj7w61.jpg) | [19 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/unexpectedpawnee/comments/n1ikxg/honestly_its_expected_at_this_point/)\n\n----\n^^I'm ^^a ^^bot, ^^beep ^^boop ^^| ^^Downvote ^^to ^^remove ^^| ^^[Contact](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=sneakpeekbot) ^^| ^^[Info](https://np.reddit.com/r/sneakpeekbot/) ^^| ^^[Opt-out](https://np.reddit.com/r/sneakpeekbot/comments/o8wk1r/blacklist_ix/) ^^| ^^[GitHub](https://github.com/ghnr/sneakpeekbot)", "replies": [], "depth": 5}, {"id": "i0hfenn", "text": "AndyDwyerSurpriseFace dot gif", "replies": [], "depth": 5}], "depth": 4}], "depth": 3}], "depth": 2}, {"id": "i0hh0um", "text": "Agreed. Let them stay, just get it in writing that they denied it. Have the hard convo and let them know that they cannot legally live there. Explain to them some prior worst case scenarios. Let them know when they can stop living there, they must. \n\nIf this guy is good, when he makes it he\u2019ll credit you for helping him in his time of need. He\u2019ll be your best tenant. \n\nPlus, built in security. Just sayin.", "replies": [], "depth": 2}, {"id": "i0ibl2y", "text": "Don\u2019t forget the free 24/7 security!  \n  \nI rent a commercial space for my cars/ hobby workshop and there are about a dozen units in the park.  We definitely have someone living there discreetly for exactly this reason.", "replies": [], "depth": 2}, {"id": "i0ihtuw", "text": "Cons:\n\n- additional wear and tear. Two people 24/7 instead of one 8 hours a day. \n\n- more opportunity of an incident to happen (cooking or working)\u2026 \n\nIt would be a hard no for me. Too many potential issues and liabilities. \n\nQ: possible for the RV to be parked on or near site? So they could use the electrical only?", "replies": [], "depth": 2}], "depth": 1}, {"id": "i0grhse", "text": "3 day notice, with a cover letter saying \"I have to do this, but call me and we can work something out.\"", "replies": [], "depth": 1}, {"id": "i0gs4o7", "text": "I'd suggest giving him a reasonable time to move out.  Too much liability and too much headache.  You own commercial and in particular industrial real estate so you don't have to deal with these headaches.", "replies": [], "depth": 1}, {"id": "i0gts90", "text": "Look up the Ghost Ship warehouse fire in case you are curious about possible worst case scenarios for this.", "replies": [{"id": "i0hhkbd", "text": "Interesting read.", "replies": [], "depth": 2}, {"id": "i0kn29o", "text": "Not at all comparable. Ghostship was an arts collective with a lot of crap and people everywhere. They threw parties with 100s of people, and had janky cooking situations. This is one guy in a giant warehouse", "replies": [{"id": "i0kpfqb", "text": "OP says that it is one guy. I am not sure if it is clear in the Ghostship case how much the landlord knew, but it is certainly possible that the landlord was only aware of the principal tenant on the lease and not of  dozens of subtenants.", "replies": [{"id": "i0kqzq6", "text": "Ghostship was an institution. That landlord 100% knew the situation there.", "replies": [], "depth": 4}], "depth": 3}], "depth": 2}], "depth": 1}, {"id": "i0gxqju", "text": "Let em live\u2026.They pay they work and live fck it, it\u2019s rough out here", "replies": [{"id": "i0hzmbb", "text": "Do you own any commercial space?", "replies": [], "depth": 2}], "depth": 1}, {"id": "i0hk10h", "text": "I also have a tenant living in one of my commercial properties.  It\u2019s a 4500sf tire shop on a busy highway.  The building just happens to have an upstairs office that the tenant turned into his bedroom.  He even converted an upstairs closet into a shower.  The way I see it is that he\u2019s more likely to be able to afford rent if he\u2019s saving money by living there.  He\u2019s been there for over a year, but I doubt he\u2019ll live there forever.  I don\u2019t really care as long as he pays the rent.", "replies": [], "depth": 1}, {"id": "i0hkyd5", "text": "But why do you care?", "replies": [], "depth": 1}, {"id": "i0hmvmr", "text": "Thanks for all the advice everyone. \n\nI think the best solution is this, after thinking about it for a few hours. \n\nI\u2019m going to continue to rent him the back 1,500 sq ft of the building which is all warehouse space - at a fair market price but less than half of what he\u2019s currently paying. With the rent savings he will easily have money for an apartment in our area. \nThis way he is not forced to find a new shop and move all his equipment.\n\nThe front of the building is a wide open office / mixed use space. (Which is where they are living).  I\u2019ll take over this space and should easily be able to find a tenant to sub lease it. Someone who needs light manufacturing space- printing, T-shirt\u2019s, upholstery, etc. \n\nThere is a party wall between the front &amp; back- hopefully the fire inspector will let me put a locking door separating the spaces (both ends of the building have exits.", "replies": [], "depth": 1}, {"id": "i0hpgdr", "text": "People telling you to allow them to stay clearly don\u2019t own real estate, that\u2019s insane. Ask him to stop living there, period. If you feel compassionate and want to give him a discount going forward, do that, but do not let him live there", "replies": [], "depth": 1}, {"id": "i0hs96c", "text": "Living on a non residential zoned property has serious consequences for Landlord and Tenant.  That said, depending on where you live there are opposite ways to approach this.\n\n1. I'm in Washington DC.  If this situation occurred here the Tenant would be evicted immediately, as this behavior voids my insurance and exposes the Landlord to serious liabilities if anything happened.\n2. 70 miles west of Washington DC (if you can believe it) is country/farmland.  I have property that way.  If this situation occurred there I may let it go as along as the Tenant was a quality Tenant.  But, I not document the incident for plausible deniability.  The lease already stipulates Tenant cannot use the property for residential so as Landlord you are covered.\n3. In a reply post you mention separating the space into two and locking the partying wall.  Keep in mind there must be two points of egress.\n\nThat said, I would not get involved with the Tenant's life.  Don't change the lease to help him find an apartment (that is also admitting knowledge if the situation).  It's not your business.  You are his Landlord.  Stick to the lease terms.", "replies": [], "depth": 1}, {"id": "i0htn5f", "text": "I was the worse residential owner/landlord and moved to commercial ownership because of it.\n\nYou may want to reconsider letting them stay as actual tenants because of a host of federal, state, county and local residential housing laws will kickoff that may not allow you to recapture that space with any sort of quickness. It may not matter if you have a sort of denial letter to show the eviction judge.\n\nWe are in a different economy and governmental reaction to the pandemic on the housing side has made it VERY difficult for landlords.", "replies": [], "depth": 1}, {"id": "i0iwtu8", "text": "What is it worth to you? Do you need legal counsel to assess your liability before you come to Reddit.  You should only be here for a subjective, moral opinion, not anything that could potentially take your livelihood", "replies": [], "depth": 1}, {"id": "i0j8y0x", "text": "As long as they are paying rent on time &amp; taking care of business and the building,  who cares? make sure that you tell them no cooking indoors just to cover your won ass if anything happens per the city ordinance.  Other than that hope that good luck with happy tenants", "replies": [], "depth": 1}, {"id": "i0jf11a", "text": "I had a korean family living in the back of a nail salon I rented them. God's honest truth, I never got up in there business. They had more money to pay me rent because they weren't paying for an apartment somewhere else. They were quiet and curteous. And I loved having eyes on the property all the time. I", "replies": [], "depth": 1}, {"id": "i0kmvbq", "text": "Id do nothing", "replies": [], "depth": 1}]