Owning rentals experiences, opinions, and when is a good time to buy rental properties?
 What are y'all's experiences and opinions on owning apartments, how many units would you recommend? Would you hire a private company to do all the landlord duties or do them yourself? I've been looking into it heavily. As I wanted to flip houses before, I feel renting out properties would be way more efficient. Im trying to buy a house to flip now, but with how fast the market is moving, and how many houses are on the market. It's hard to get a house without a bidding war and paying too much. Real estate market will probably crash sometime this year, so I'm zoning more towards apartments. All opinions, experiences, and advice is appreciated !
[{"id": "h2w8fzq", "text": "&gt; how many units would you recommend? \n\nStart off with a single family home or a double so that you could gain some management experience. \n\n&gt;Would you hire a private company to do all the landlord duties or do them yourself?\n\nI would do it all myself. \n\n&gt;Im trying to buy a house to flip now, but with how fast the market is moving, and how many houses are on the market. It's hard to get a house without a bidding war and paying too much.\n\nThe trick is to buy properties off market. Not trying to be snarky, it's the reality. Hell, I bought 4/5 of my properties off market. \n\n&gt;Real estate market will probably crash sometime this year\n\nWhat makes you think this?", "replies": [{"id": "h2w8wv2", "text": "Real estate market isn\u2019t going to crash this year (well maybe office but that\u2019s a dirty word now...). Valuations are nuts sure but underlying fundamentals are great as people come back to work and the government engages in aggressive fiscal and monetary policy.", "replies": [{"id": "h2w9ylv", "text": "Full disclosure, I'm a residential broker, and not too versed in how the commercial real estate market is. \n\nAt least on the residential side, there's a lot of people sitting on the sidelines waiting for \"deals\". Too much pent up demand. And people forget that if there is a crash, what makes them so sure they will be in a position to buy a house?", "replies": [{"id": "h2wbtul", "text": "I mean on the resi side interest rates gapping out is a legitimate concern - will put the damper on the huge price increases we\u2019ve seen. That being said I don\u2019t think there\u2019s a correction like GFC because there\u2019s not a ton of new construction in a lot of the hot markets that isn\u2019t already out of the ground and to your point a lot of people are sitting on a lot of cash right now after spending 18 months in their house saving money. \n\nThat trickles thru to the multi side as well, housing affordabliloty is a challenge nationally (and even more so in the traditional LCOL markets post covid) but rates / pricing haven\u2019t come up yet to make the spread for SFH and multi developers worth it. Only stuff u/c now is stuff that was bought out / GMP prior to construction costs going thru the roof.", "replies": [], "depth": 4}], "depth": 3}], "depth": 2}, {"id": "h2w907b", "text": "I live in Dayton Ohio, I don't know how the market is anywhere else, my personal realtor, plus a few others have said the same thing, when the market gets super bullish like it is, banks release more properties from their portfolio, so more houses surpasses the demand and become harder to sell. They've all said, give it about 3-5 months.", "replies": [{"id": "h2wa6rr", "text": "I think they're right and wrong. Yes, the banks will be more aggressive but with that being said, there's still so much demand and people waiting for \"deals\" that it really won't matter (at least in my market).", "replies": [], "depth": 3}, {"id": "h2wgbd8", "text": "Nope. I\u2019m a lender and know that there\u2019s too much demand absorbing anything that hits the market right now. Honestly if 500k homes hit the market throughout the USA, it would be absorbed so fast the price would be *bidded* up quickly- and if 2,000,000 homes would hit the market, you\u2019d see maybe 4-5 foreclosures per community in the USA, not even enough to make a dent with prices. This is not a true recession- people are choosing not to work- there\u2019s money everywhere and rates are still low, plus rents are super high making it an investors paradise. So seriously if your on the sidelines waiting, and a realtor saying prices will come down- ah, no they won\u2019t. Not until an actual recession takes place. This is an artificial recession thats not a true credit cycle which happens every 8-12 years. Opportunity will arise from investing wisely and leveraging correctly.", "replies": [], "depth": 3}, {"id": "h2xjvw9", "text": "Banks don't strategize when to sell properties, they debate about which channel to sell into. \nWhen a loan is non performing they can negotiate a foreberance or modified payment plan, they can sell the note to someone else to negotiate a new payment structure with the borrower, or a bank could go through foreclosure and then sell the property to a bulk buyer or work to maximize the sale value with a broker. Notice all the channels where the house is not listed on the MLS. Right now the ban on foreclosure is just starting to be lifted and that still gives owners a window to sell before the bank takes ownership.", "replies": [], "depth": 3}], "depth": 2}, {"id": "h2wfj41", "text": "Why off market? Because it\u2019s cheaper or because your savings on fees or why?", "replies": [{"id": "h2winb5", "text": "cheaper since there is no other competition", "replies": [], "depth": 3}], "depth": 2}, {"id": "h2x4aau", "text": "So, how does one source off-market deals and if one can find them, wouldn\u2019t the potential seller in many cases be more unreasonable in terms of what they think their property is worth?", "replies": [{"id": "h2y7lp9", "text": "It\u2019s  having the right connections. For example my family is close friends with an estate attorney and we\u2019ve gotten several deals that way. Or make friends with the guys that go to auctions and have them assign a property to you.", "replies": [{"id": "h328xzt", "text": "Crazy you say this, it seems I always find someone that knows a guy, also met a lady a while back that is really into real-estate that wants to go into an apartment with me, connections help so much. I couldn't have gotten where I'm at without the connections I've had, I mean I could have, but a harder longer route to where I want to be.", "replies": [], "depth": 4}], "depth": 3}], "depth": 2}], "depth": 1}, {"id": "h2wfc5h", "text": "Always is a good time to buy rentals assuming you have sufficient down to cash flow, and the rents are high enough to sustain debt service and maintain a steady stream of renters.\n\nEdit Add: the barrier to entering is a large down payment. So money is a limiting factor if your buying on a budget. 20% of 800k is $160k. You\u2019ll need to lever at least $3M in disposable cash to make $1M rent cash flow per year, in other words by purchasing around $13M to flow $1M and Assuming you come in with 20% down.", "replies": [], "depth": 1}, {"id": "h2wwi8k", "text": "I own 23 units out of state - I have a property manager who has it. \n\nI wouldn\u2019t own an out of state portfolio by myself", "replies": [{"id": "h2xib88", "text": "Me and a partner was looking at an out of state one as well, that's what I was thinking, have a property manager for something father than I would drive regularly. Is it pretty easy going using a property manager?", "replies": [{"id": "h34vy8b", "text": "I mean it\u2019s definitely easier using a PM. I could never handle those complaints virtually. Especially when dealing with section 8", "replies": [{"id": "h38go78", "text": "That's what I was thinking! Lol. I'm sure complaints are ridiculous, I'd rather hire a PM then check up on things regularly to get my two cents in.", "replies": [{"id": "h3ao0f1", "text": "Yeah and it\u2019s frankly not worth my time. I make more money at my day job than my investments bring in atm", "replies": [], "depth": 5}], "depth": 4}], "depth": 3}], "depth": 2}], "depth": 1}, {"id": "h2xzdyk", "text": "Have 300 units. Started with a single rental condo. When people ask how to start I usually say fha 4 unit, live in one unit for a year, rent out the other 3, 3.5% downpayment. Renovate or add units if possible and refi into a small commercial loan. Manage yourself to learn. Get a handyman who can perform the work though.", "replies": [], "depth": 1}]