Most recession proof jobs in Commercial real estate?
Was chatting with a fellow redditor on here and he said loan asset management is a relatively recession proof role in the industry and I agree. What are some other good paying roles that is pretty secure regardless or economic meltdowns?
[{"id": "htwrszn", "text": "Asset management probably. Banks will need someone to manage their loans and owners will need someone to keep an eye on their properties.", "replies": [{"id": "htws3q6", "text": "What are their actually job duties? Been thinking if this is where I want to be.", "replies": [{"id": "htwt3y6", "text": "Limited upside and comp but in my experience it wasn\u2019t fulfilling. You\u2019re constantly updating financials, comparing it to the loan structure to see if the loan is in compliance, etc.", "replies": [{"id": "htwtctn", "text": "What\u2019s the best career then for good WLB and solid comp?", "replies": [{"id": "htwthik", "text": "Commercial balance sheet lending maybe.", "replies": [{"id": "htwtus9", "text": "What was comp like as an asset manager for you?", "replies": [{"id": "htwu6so", "text": "$100k ish - left that role as an associate.", "replies": [{"id": "htwv2i3", "text": "Where are you now and do you like it more than AM?", "replies": [{"id": "htwx8sv", "text": "Cmbs - no work life balance but make a great paycheck.", "replies": [{"id": "htxnhxc", "text": "Na CDO^3. WLB is great.\n\nWork consists of closing eyes and praying\u2026", "replies": [], "depth": 10}], "depth": 9}], "depth": 8}], "depth": 7}, {"id": "htxnsjz", "text": "No offense dude but you\u2019re not gonna break into asset management. You need to go to school, a bachelors if your someones nephew\u2026.masters for everyone else.", "replies": [{"id": "htxo0ye", "text": "Lol I\u2019m at one of the largest CRE firms in America bro. I do loan asset management rn.", "replies": [{"id": "htxpctm", "text": "Then why are you asking some of these questions? Like what courses to take\u2026\n\nI wasn\u2019t ripping you personally, it\u2019s just a hard industry to get into, but I guess you know that.", "replies": [{"id": "htxs6n0", "text": "I\u2019m already in the industry. What are you talking about?", "replies": [{"id": "htxv06n", "text": "One more time\u2026.you are asking about what career is best, what course to take to get into asset management etc. in your other comments/posts it sounded like you were interested in real estate and thinking about what career you should target without a lot of hard work / best WLb and schooling.\n\nIf that\u2019s not the case I apologize, I misunderstood your other comments and posts. \n\nThat\u2019s all. Night.", "replies": [{"id": "htxw3gx", "text": "Thanks for clarifying. Thought you were trying to be a dick but sounds like it was just a misunderstanding.", "replies": [], "depth": 12}], "depth": 11}], "depth": 10}], "depth": 9}], "depth": 8}], "depth": 7}], "depth": 6}], "depth": 5}, {"id": "htx84jg", "text": "Development, acquisitions, and syndication business development on the ownership side have the highest salaries and best work life balance.", "replies": [], "depth": 5}, {"id": "htxdkhh", "text": "appraisal", "replies": [], "depth": 5}], "depth": 4}], "depth": 3}, {"id": "htww8ej", "text": "The other person already answered loan asset management, but asset management for an owner of properties is more fulfilling IMO with much better comp. You\u2019re responsible for the high level strategy of a group of properties (leasing, capex, etc) and approving the associated budgets that come from the property managers. Depending on company you may be directly involved in leasing and contract negotiations as well. It\u2019s arguably the most important role in the continued operation and performance of an asset.\n\nIt has a good work life balance, is recession proof (even if a company isn\u2019t buying or building new stuff they need someone to take care of what they own) and can pay nearly as well as deal-oriented roles like acquisitions or development if you work at a shop that offers carry or co-invest (the asset manager is responsible for making sure the original strategy the acquisition/development guys came up with is properly executed, so a lot of places feel they deserve a chunk of the performance fees).", "replies": [{"id": "htxwgs9", "text": "Your second point is something I\u2019ve always thought about, it\u2019s always been strange to me philosophically that acquisitions is always the most highly regarded even though it\u2019s in asset mgmt where the money is actually made.", "replies": [{"id": "htxy7oy", "text": "It\u2019s because acquisitions is sexier - that\u2019s the team bringing in all the deals and making headlines.", "replies": [{"id": "hty0mih", "text": "They underwrite wild deals that make no sense that asset mgmt has to live with!", "replies": [{"id": "hty7zt4", "text": "Don\u2019t disagree but that\u2019s the reality hahah, asset management isn\u2019t sexy because you\u2019re not the one making deals happen.", "replies": [], "depth": 7}], "depth": 6}], "depth": 5}], "depth": 4}, {"id": "htxz4kp", "text": "Being on the acquisitions side for the past 7 years I am just exhausted and would love the work life balance of AM", "replies": [{"id": "hty86hc", "text": "Typically it\u2019s pretty straightforward to switch over from acquisitions to AM so you could probably swing it. Might have to take a title cut.", "replies": [], "depth": 5}], "depth": 4}, {"id": "hu0cioi", "text": "The only problem is that in a recession the deal guys become asset managers too while they wait it out to start buying again / manage the workouts - unfortunate truth but a lot of AMs don\u2019t have the financial background to hop into say a loan workout if a property is going to get foreclosed. GFC saw a lot of AMs get put out and \u201creplaced\u201d by the deal guys on a temporary basis while they waited it out\u2026", "replies": [{"id": "hu0pqi9", "text": "Hmm interesting that was the opposite of my experience. At our firm several deal guys got laid off while none of the AM team got touched. That being said, our AM guys deal with financing and smaller leasing deals and all have a strong finance background so maybe not the norm.\n\nThat being said, I don\u2019t know any companies that hire AM guys with any less of a finance background than the deal team? I\u2019d say I know more AMs with a CFA than acquisition guys, and most AMs I know are way more comfortable deep in the weeds than the deal guys who just want to know the numbers work high level and the risk is tolerable.\n\nI work in acquisitions/development so no bias here.", "replies": [{"id": "hu0zj0v", "text": "During GFC the firm I was at did same but I worked at a different firm later that had cut most of the AM staff and had the deal guys run the deals they bought. I agree that AM wherever I\u2019ve been has been strong on capital markets but the deal guys I\u2019ve found typically have a stronger skill set if only because they\u2019re more active in the market with lenders and are usually the ones negotiating the LAs on purchase with the DCM team. \n\nI agree generally though that if you\u2019re a strong asset manager you are going to be fine in a recession and add a ton of value. Also you don\u2019t have to worry about not hitting production targets and getting cut from the team (and to that end would love to know what turnover looks like right now for multi and industrial guys working for hedge funds that aren\u2019t doing ground up, I have no idea how you can buy in those sectors and hit a 20 when even heavy lift value add is trading down to like a 6-7 unlevered right now and there\u2019s no distress in the market\u2026)", "replies": [], "depth": 6}], "depth": 5}], "depth": 4}], "depth": 3}, {"id": "hu098ob", "text": "Identifying and managing risk.", "replies": [], "depth": 3}], "depth": 2}], "depth": 1}, {"id": "htwssh4", "text": "Real estate appraiser. Even when there are mass foreclosures lenders have to have those reappraised.", "replies": [{"id": "htx0h03", "text": "Same with analysts. I have to review every 6 months our whole portfolio and check how our LTV is with the current market conditions. Let's say this year has been very easy and everyone has been in a good mood to read my reports, but as with everything, there will be the days when eventually I will have to write how we lend more than the current value.", "replies": [{"id": "htxayph", "text": "How does one become an analyst? Im going for a broker exam but have asset protection and basic accounting knowledge.", "replies": [{"id": "htxbu0k", "text": "Well, you need to learn about the market, financial concepts like present value, cash on cash, discount cashflow analysis and how to do proformas. I worked for 5 years in acquisitions and move to an analyst role after I completed my masters in Real Estate.", "replies": [{"id": "htxjdfa", "text": "Oh okay , what are some other options or routes I could take?", "replies": [{"id": "htxkmnb", "text": "You can try doing crash courses like \"Break into CRE,\" but these jobs are very competitive on the entry level. It is very likely you will competing with people with degrees on finance and some market knowledge. At the same time,I think now is a good time, since there is so much money being invested and the need for analysts is very high. Once you have 2 or more years of experience you can work anywhere you want.", "replies": [], "depth": 6}], "depth": 5}, {"id": "htxvrqa", "text": "What do you mean by \u201canalyst\u201d, were you previously in acquisitions and then became an asset/portfolio mgmt analyst?", "replies": [{"id": "htxy8r4", "text": "I began by working with an asset manager for commercial properties and our strategy was to buy to hold in the long term, thus our exit strategy was mostly thru refinancing. My job there was to find the opportunities, do the analysis, due diligence and follow up with the porfolio. Now I work as an analyst and underwriter for a company that is a private lender (mostly bridge loans, construction and land), has a small portfolio of investment properties and is also a LP in development. \n\nMy job in this company is to appraise independently the propertie and markets, as well review the appraisals (we have a different analyst for KYC). I also review the market and trends to understand the risk we and the borrower/partner could face, as well as verify that their exit strategy makes sense. For our portfolio and our LP developments, I do a very detail report on the current market, future trends, and risk/sensitivity analysis. This is a very brief explanation, since I do get to wear many hats, depending on the project.", "replies": [], "depth": 6}], "depth": 5}, {"id": "hty0u4s", "text": "Where did you get your masters in real estate? if you don't mind sharing", "replies": [{"id": "hty13sr", "text": "Florida International University.", "replies": [], "depth": 6}], "depth": 5}], "depth": 4}, {"id": "hu0rtld", "text": "Look into CCIM courses", "replies": [], "depth": 4}], "depth": 3}, {"id": "hu8nx15", "text": "What kind of analyst\nTheres no way you're getting biannual appraisals\nMeaning the only change to ltv would be a nominal curtailment of principal, unless you're doing multiple desktop valuations w implied cap. Which seems like a lot of unnecessary work imo.", "replies": [{"id": "hu8pkm7", "text": "Is mostly to monitor that the debt is being covered in case of a default, this is particularly important when you have volatile assets that are hard to finance traditionally.", "replies": [{"id": "hu8rqve", "text": "Ok. So i rates rise, cap rates rise, implied value falls such that its &gt;80% ltv. Borrower still paying as agreed. What do you do?", "replies": [{"id": "hu8t7an", "text": "If they pay everything is fine. The problem is when they don't we end up with an 80 ltv.", "replies": [], "depth": 6}], "depth": 5}], "depth": 4}], "depth": 3}], "depth": 2}, {"id": "htxvnue", "text": "Correct.", "replies": [], "depth": 2}, {"id": "htz7kab", "text": "I mean this in the nicest way in case we have appraisers in here, but I can\u2019t help but share my experience that almost every real estate professional I have worked with thinks appraisers are completely worthless. Obviously banks find them to be useful as a risk management asset, but when 95% of appraisals come in at *exactly* the agreed upon sale price, it seems to suggest that they\u2019re more of a formality than anything that adds useful information to a real estate transaction.", "replies": [{"id": "htz99ec", "text": "As a former appraiser i kind of agree.\nHowever the real estate industry moves so slow the profession will be around for a long time.", "replies": [], "depth": 3}], "depth": 2}], "depth": 1}, {"id": "htwumkm", "text": "MF Property MGMT", "replies": [{"id": "htwx5b3", "text": "This 100%.", "replies": [], "depth": 2}, {"id": "htyszem", "text": "What is MF?", "replies": [{"id": "htyvpa9", "text": "Multifamily", "replies": [], "depth": 3}], "depth": 2}], "depth": 1}, {"id": "htx4629", "text": "Property Maintenance &amp; Security", "replies": [], "depth": 1}, {"id": "htxg52k", "text": "Owning the assets.", "replies": [{"id": "htxmaj4", "text": "I\u2019ve seen enough of them out of work through foreclosure", "replies": [{"id": "hty92l2", "text": "I've seen plenty of them, paid for, taking private jets to Sun Valley to their 5,000 sf homes.", "replies": [], "depth": 3}], "depth": 2}], "depth": 1}, {"id": "hty1c9m", "text": "Self-Storage", "replies": [], "depth": 1}, {"id": "htyc91n", "text": "You can throw in brokerage if your willing to learn how to do foreclosure/bankruptcy deals", "replies": [], "depth": 1}, {"id": "htyxgwf", "text": "Less risk sometimes means less return.", "replies": [], "depth": 1}, {"id": "htzjcrn", "text": "Low risk= low income and/or a pretty shitty job.  You can be a multi family property manager, get clogged toilets and noise complaints every day of the week...but that shit is recession proof.  I'd rather be a manager at a QSR, but you asked.", "replies": [{"id": "htzo9fu", "text": "What would you consider bad pay", "replies": [{"id": "htzoi8q", "text": "What\u2019s a manager of your local QSR make?", "replies": [{"id": "htzpg6g", "text": "Probably like $70K a yesr", "replies": [{"id": "hu0c9nu", "text": "A multifamily property manager makes about the same.", "replies": [], "depth": 5}], "depth": 4}], "depth": 3}], "depth": 2}], "depth": 1}, {"id": "hu094a9", "text": "Appraisal.  Valuation work can increase when people need to verify values in workouts/recaps.", "replies": [], "depth": 1}, {"id": "hu0pq09", "text": "Workout is pretty good in a recession and gives you a lot of tools you can apply elsewhere in better times.", "replies": [], "depth": 1}]