What is better: big firm versus small firm coming out of college?
Is it better to go to a big firm (big network, larger deals, higher transaction volume, etc.) or a small firm (more responsibility, not as much spoke in the wheel). I’ve heard that RE departments at big firms often run lean anyway, but I’m curious as to how this decision right out of college will affect my career opportunities down the road.
[{"id": "hw3xb7n", "text": "I am biased as I started at a small firm (12 employees) out of college. Personally, I love the small team size as it allowed me to be more hands on with deals. Learning wise I was very \"thrown into the fire\" with no real training program. For me, I like this style of learning better. I have good friends who started at the big shops and didn't have the best experience (but some who loved it). The training at these shops if much more thorough but it can be tough to stand out in a large team. \n\nAs for exit opportunities, it really depends on how you sell it. I get offers weekly to join larger firms and my friends at larger shops get weekly offers to join family offices. Depends on (i) how you like to learn, (ii) preference to working in large vs. small teams, and (iii) what your 5-yr plan is.", "replies": [], "depth": 1}, {"id": "hw3xoi0", "text": "Big firm. Get cbre or jll on the resume. Right out of school you are going to be screwed and taken advantage of, may as well do it by someone with experience. Do your time, learn the market, it will open doors instead of slumming it at a street brokerage. \n\nException would be if you wanted to jump into development, in which case find out who sells all the land and then work for that company.", "replies": [{"id": "hw48ylo", "text": "Why is everyone here obsessed with JLL lmao", "replies": [{"id": "hw49rb7", "text": "Why not?", "replies": [{"id": "hw4uy9p", "text": "But why always brokerage? BBs have great lending and CMBS platforms, large institutional firms like Harrison Street have analyst programs, some LifeCos and debt funds. I\u2019d take an offer from above over JLL any day.\n\nIt\u2019s like you guys enjoy being on commission", "replies": [{"id": "hw5pxtt", "text": "Because OPs question was about brokerage", "replies": [{"id": "hw6xtow", "text": "How so? Larger deals and higher transaction volume could refer to lenders and REPE funds. And if you check out OP\u2019s comment, he\u2019s referring to banks and funds", "replies": [{"id": "hw7ohpt", "text": "Fair point, I skimmed through his question", "replies": [], "depth": 7}], "depth": 6}], "depth": 5}, {"id": "hw6j33g", "text": "There are extremely good investment sales teams at any of the major brokerage shops where you won\u2019t even touch a commission only pay structure unless you\u2019re invited to by the partners, and if you are invited to, you\u2019re clearing 7 figured a year easy.  You have no clue what you\u2019re talking about homeboy.  I have personally been involved in engaging Goldman Sach\u2019s IBD, Eastdil Secured, and CBRE National Partners to sell &gt;$1BN portfolios.  Goldman Sach\u2019s IBD is literally a joke compared to the other two.  Took a 7 figure retainer to do absolutely nothing.  The M&amp;A groups don\u2019t know shit about underwriting the bricks and sticks.", "replies": [{"id": "hw6wyqb", "text": "It was clearly an exaggeration, thanks for taking my comment literally. My comment is referring to JLL/CBRE/CW. There is a huge difference between investment sales/capital markets and REIB.\n\nGoldman is true REIB which is what you\u2019re referring to. First year analysts there are getting paid the same as all IBD analysts. As you know, they work on entire portfolios and companies. They don\u2019t underwrite individual assets!!\n\nWhereas compared to JLL/CBRE you might get lucky and hit 100-120 max after an insane year. These guys work on single assets, and so their bonus will be tied to deal flow.\n\nYou think people are putting Goldman REIB and JLL Capital Markets in the same category? They work on different types of transactions!!\n\nSounds like you took a 7 figure retainer for a group that doesn\u2019t even work on individual assets lmao. No wonder they \u201cdid nothing\u201d\n\nThat being said, brokerage is a fantastic place to start out. But so is starting at a lender or fund", "replies": [], "depth": 6}], "depth": 5}], "depth": 4}, {"id": "hw4z69z", "text": "Just always thought JLL is like the middle child. No sales volume like Marcus, no leasing volume like CBRE. It is like the \"yeah that is a decent brokerage\" kind of brokearge.", "replies": [{"id": "hw5pw4l", "text": "No sales volume like Marcus? Is that a joke?", "replies": [{"id": "hw5vkx6", "text": "I\u2019m sorry did that offend you?", "replies": [{"id": "hw5xkah", "text": "Considering I\u2019ve worked at neither, no", "replies": [], "depth": 7}], "depth": 6}], "depth": 5}, {"id": "hw6j6db", "text": "M&amp;M is literally a joke.  There isn\u2019t a single person on the buyside that takes them seriously.", "replies": [{"id": "hw6qt3h", "text": "That\u2019s cool because buyers are liars. Unless you have me as an exclusive rep for your buy-side, I ain\u2019t working for you. Though none of it matters in the end because Ten-X I believe is future", "replies": [{"id": "hw6re75", "text": "Let me rephrase.  Nobody in the industry besides MMM brokers thinks MMM is a serious shop.", "replies": [], "depth": 7}], "depth": 6}], "depth": 5}, {"id": "hw6um53", "text": "Buy side here. If I see Marcus on the listing I automatically assume \u201cmediocre broker\u201d until proven otherwise. This is limited to multifamily investment sales, however.\n\nIt is very market and product dependent, but in multifamily acquisitions CBRE, JLL, Newmark, and Cushman all have at least a handful of pretty strong brokers, though I would agree CBRE is usually the top of the heap if/when they are in a market. A lot of the best JLL people are former HFF people.\n\nMarcus is more known for young guys trying to cut their teeth, usually failing though. The guys that make it tend to jump to another shop, be it one of those four or sometimes Berkadia.", "replies": [], "depth": 5}], "depth": 4}], "depth": 3}, {"id": "hw4keks", "text": "Big name that people can slap on a resume. What\u2019s easier? Going from Google to startup or from startup employee to Google?", "replies": [{"id": "hw6mht5", "text": "Agreed. Almost all industries it helps to do some corporate time and then branch out.", "replies": [{"id": "hw8uv4k", "text": "I did it in tech sales. Didn\u2019t stay in it but was much more attractive to prospective employers on brand recognition alone.", "replies": [], "depth": 5}], "depth": 4}], "depth": 3}, {"id": "hw77cah", "text": "Easiest place to get a job.", "replies": [], "depth": 3}], "depth": 2}], "depth": 1}, {"id": "hw42fxy", "text": "To be honest, depends what you want to do and if you have choices.", "replies": [{"id": "hw49v12", "text": "I\u2019m reasonably confident in my abilities to go to a top buy-side firm. The goal is to one day start my own REPE shop as soon as I have adequate knowledge (and market conditions are optimal).", "replies": [{"id": "hw5me7g", "text": "&gt; I\u2019m reasonably confident in my abilities to go to a top buy-side firm\n\nAs a recent grad? Unless you are from a top school or you did an internship with the firm I would advice you to tone down your expectations. Many employers in CRE do not like to train recent grads or would highly prefer a recent grad with some commercial real estate experience. The market is certainly benefiting the employees, but if you have no experience outside school, it is not as easy as picking a firm.", "replies": [{"id": "hw5mvap", "text": "Yes, did not mean to sound cocky. More so, just have strong confidence in my abilities. That is good to keep in mind. Thank you. That being said, what do you think I can do to maximize my chances for an offer at a top firm directly out of college?", "replies": [{"id": "hw5oy8a", "text": "Look for an internship with them or start networking with the people you want to work with. Go to events in organizations like Urban Land Institute, NAIOP, NAREIT, and such and meet people there. Also, if you really want to learn the ropes of the business, take an apprenticeship year with a commercial appraiser.", "replies": [], "depth": 5}, {"id": "hwztz4a", "text": "What year in school are you? Have you had any internships yet or plan on it? Spending a summer at one of the big brokerage firms will go a long way in getting your foot in the door at a lot of reputable shops post-under grad. It\u2019s only after that you\u2019ll even get the chance to let you\u2019re \u2018confident abilities\u2019 glide you to an offer letter.", "replies": [], "depth": 5}], "depth": 4}], "depth": 3}], "depth": 2}], "depth": 1}, {"id": "hw4ilrb", "text": "Go for big name recognition to set yourself up well for the 2nd job at the smaller firm.", "replies": [], "depth": 1}, {"id": "hw4yvce", "text": "Go with a big firm but not for \"bigger network, larger deals, higher transaction volume, etc.\" Those things aren't handed to you, doesn't matter what brokerage you go to. Any commercial broker who actually has things to do won't even really talk to you. Not that they don't respect you, they do, they are just too busy to. Larger deals are something you will get as you keep working and so is higher transaction volume. You go to big firms because they will train you. They will give you everything you need to get started and teach you the ins and outs of this world. Always remember that straight out of college means you don't know jack so getting knowledge should be your number 1 concern.", "replies": [], "depth": 1}, {"id": "hw59p3w", "text": "What do you want to do? Do you want to work at brokerage? A bank? An investment fund? If you\u2019re working in brokerage, bigger is generally better. But it\u2019s a lot more company to company on the debt/equity side. \n\nOnce you narrow that down I think it\u2019s important to find out what team you\u2019d be working on. The difference between working in research vs. a small investment sales team vs. asset management can be huge even within a big firm. \n\nI know this is vague, but if you can give specifics on the type of role you want I think folks can be more helpful.", "replies": [{"id": "hw5neor", "text": "I would definitely like to work at an investment fund or bank. If possible, I\u2019d like to work on the equity side of a bank as opposed to lending. I\u2019d ideally work in an acquisitions role that experiences high transaction volume across all the major asset classes. Also, does anybody have recommendations for firms that do distressed debt RE investing (small &amp; large)?", "replies": [], "depth": 2}], "depth": 1}, {"id": "hw5jbez", "text": "Big. I started my career at a big firm that is now enormous. Not only did I learn an absolute ton and get a lot of responsibilities at a very young age, but that name has also made me a lot of money", "replies": [], "depth": 1}, {"id": "hw5n0me", "text": "I spent the first 4 years of my career at a small\nCompany and have spent they last 5 years at one of the largest. If you are planning on leasing or selling industrial or office real estate you need to go to a big firm, especially in industrial. I specialize in industrial and can count on one hand the amount a times a deal of any significance was done by a non national firm, with almost all major tenants coming from cw, CB or jll. If you want to do big deals go to one of the companies I just mentioned.", "replies": [], "depth": 1}, {"id": "hw62t9z", "text": "I am in a similar situation right now, coming out of college in 6 months and looking at boutique firms as well as companies like CBRE, JLL, and M&amp;M. Would love to discuss more and be able to bounce ideas off of each other. PM if ur interested", "replies": [{"id": "hw8pver", "text": "I'm going through this right now - would be more than happy to share my experience. I joined a smaller shop straight out of college (family friend is the broker of record). When I first joined (heart of COVID), the CRE industry was really shaky &amp; there weren't many opportunities at the larger shops. I've been on dinner 'interviews' with the larger shops but haven't made the decision to move or stay yet - kind of in limbo.", "replies": [{"id": "hw91ehq", "text": "Identical situation for me. Interned with this guy who is the father of a lifelong friend the summer before my sophomore year of college and now he's reached back out with what sounds to be a compelling opportunity (salary+commission) and listings ready for me which would cut out a considerable amount of the expected cold calling. I know the theory is go big to small but it feels like too good of an opportunity to pass up", "replies": [], "depth": 3}], "depth": 2}], "depth": 1}, {"id": "hw6v80g", "text": "Vote here for a big shop. I would do at least a year or two basically doing analysis, then you can jump if you want. But you should never underestimate the value of a brand on your resume early.\n\nTwo years at a shop the caliber of CBRE, AvalonBay, Prologis, Simon\u2026 top of their sector companies... yeah. Good move. People will assume you\u2019re better than you are. If you land with the right small shop, you\u2019ll actually BE better\u2026 but that\u2019s why you leave the big shop after a couple of years.", "replies": [], "depth": 1}, {"id": "hw6vckj", "text": "Depends on where you are. Many major metros have good moderate sized brokerages with good training programs. Not the volume of the larger brokerages, but more 1:1 time with your mentor, fewer employment hoops (CBRE often starts new sales employees to work in research first), and fewer horror stories. (ahem, M&amp;M)\n\nCast a wide net. Download the Starbucks app an earn your stars on free coffee. Be fearless. :)", "replies": [], "depth": 1}, {"id": "hw78tyl", "text": "I think a small team is the way to go. They\u2019ll help you get started it\u2019s not easy if you aren\u2019t already well connected and the big guys don\u2019t really care if you live or die.", "replies": [], "depth": 1}]