should I get a commercial real estate agent, why or why not?
Not sure if this is the best place to ask this, but we're looking at a small commercial building that we intend to move our business into.  We have already met with the sellers agent and have seen the place twice.  It's very old and will probably need some significant repairs and updates.  It is being sold as-is by a government entity and the sellers agent has told us that they just want to unload it.  Zoning issues may arise as well.  Do I really need a buyers agent?  What are the reasons to use one or not use one since we have already found the property we want? Tia!
[{"id": "ikydc0a", "text": "You should have decided this before seeing the property twice with the sellers agent. Have fun bringing this up to him, Lol.", "replies": [{"id": "ikzvzrv", "text": "Any broker you hire is going to have a hard time demanding a commission on this deal if you've seen it twice. For that reason, a lot of (good) brokers will probably pass on helping you.", "replies": [], "depth": 2}], "depth": 1}, {"id": "ikyeiw2", "text": "If there are zoning issues you need to perform due diligence now to determine if the property will meet your criteria.", "replies": [{"id": "ikylkbi", "text": "I have reached out to zoning.  Waiting to hear back.", "replies": [{"id": "ikzpzfl", "text": "Some here may cringe for me to say this but you probably at min need an attorney", "replies": [], "depth": 3}, {"id": "ildjqk3", "text": "Get a zoning confirmation letter, you can get from the county usually for under $50. I always like to get an email chain with zoning if they think it\u2019s an approved use for current zoning to keep as back up when in doubt", "replies": [], "depth": 3}], "depth": 2}], "depth": 1}, {"id": "ikyfnc3", "text": "There are a couple things that need to be reviewed when buying a property to make sure the purchaser of the property is getting their money\u2019s worth and isn\u2019t being tricked. A little downside is the agent fee but it\u2019s worth it when buying property so they do the due diligence for you. That\u2019s why you get a buyers agent. If you really can\u2019t find agent representation I can represent you, I\u2019m licensed in nyc just shoot me a text.", "replies": [{"id": "ikylpfu", "text": "We're not in NY, but thank you.", "replies": [], "depth": 2}], "depth": 1}, {"id": "ikyvllc", "text": "Use a commercial broker. Not a realtor. Are you in a major market where some of the bigger brokerage shops have a presence? There really isn\u2019t a reason not to have representation. It doesn\u2019t cost you anything.", "replies": [], "depth": 1}, {"id": "ikywfor", "text": "You do not \u201cneed\u201d a broker for this. An experienced broker can be helpful during the process, however at this point, it is extremely unlikely that the seller would pay one. Generally a buyer broker is paid to bring you to the seller (procuring cause) not to negotiate against them after you found it on your own.\n\nYou would likely be on the hook for the fee. I would guess that an experienced real estate attorney would be much cheaper than the broker fee, and probably more helpful to you anyway.", "replies": [{"id": "ikznadm", "text": "Thank you!  This is what I suspected.", "replies": [{"id": "il0mfz5", "text": "I actually disagree. I'm a commercial tenant rep, deal with laywers representing owners all the time, and am frequently reminded of the difference between legal advice vs. business advice from lawyers lol.\n\nThey can get misguided in what really matters unless you are an expert in making those kinds of real estate specific decisions yourself. Not valuing properties regularly compared to brokers is a problem too, unless you are good at that. Lawyers will not have as much experience working with design people and contractors for TI stuff, unless that's your strength, etc. That's three things that gum up negotiations and profits. \n\nGet a broker. And pay for a lawyer as needed for paperwork. Truly amazing laywers for transacting commercial exist for sure, but are rare.\n\nEDIT: the person above is right about everything else that you will need to pay a broker differently/directly.", "replies": [{"id": "il2g6vc", "text": "Thank you for your input!  We will get a lawyer regardless, but I think we probably should have gotten a broker earlier, but... forgot?  Since we found the place ourselves.  As much as I would like the advice of a broker, I assume we'd be paying for it, and probably quite a bit...\n\nI think, if this were a larger purchase, I'd be more inclined to get a broker, but this place is, frankly, a hole.  Terrible location, no private parking, very old and in need of work.  It's going cheap by today's standards).  From a business perspective, it's a relatively small gamble, and our business is one of those rare ones that doesn't need a good location or parking or an attractive building.", "replies": [{"id": "il30bfl", "text": "Cool, I don't blame you. This is stuff the general public isn't expected to know. Frankly the owner's broker was probably giggling inside because they will likely get a double commission. \n\nDual representation sucks. I know you'll get an attorney but it is a different kind of representation that doesn't quite line up I guess?\n\nBecause so much of this stuff is state specific, I still highly recommend making a few calls to some brokers, explain the situation, and let them figure out how they would get paid. Then decide after they tell you. They may be able to work something out that is the best of both worlds for you. Don't abandon the idea to save an hour on the phone. Best of luck with your endevours!", "replies": [], "depth": 5}], "depth": 4}], "depth": 3}], "depth": 2}], "depth": 1}, {"id": "ikywo0i", "text": "The answer is always yes", "replies": [{"id": "il0esce", "text": "This is the right answer. If you don't know how to do it, or haven't done it before get representation. Read the case law on *procuring cause* and you will see there are lots of exceptions. The commission goes to the one who seals the deal. Buyer needs a decent commercial realtor, and a lawyer to if it gets complicated.", "replies": [], "depth": 2}], "depth": 1}, {"id": "ikzlyjw", "text": "Too late! The sellers\u2019 agent is the procuring cause for the sale since you were introduced to the property through them.", "replies": [{"id": "il2hrbb", "text": "So there is no way to even get an agent or broker afterwards?", "replies": [{"id": "il2jubm", "text": "You said that you already met with the sellers agent so they are already in the eyes of the law the procuring cause of any future deal. Even if you went to another agent and don\u2019t say anything to that agent, the sellers agents could go after their commission. Next time you want to see a property, call an agent of your choice to represent you to arrange the appointment and take you to see it. Once you call the listing agent directly they are now a dual agent representing both you and the seller.", "replies": [], "depth": 3}], "depth": 2}], "depth": 1}, {"id": "ikzrgag", "text": "You need a good attorney at this point.", "replies": [], "depth": 1}, {"id": "ikzv3po", "text": "\"Procuring cause\" and \"attorneys\". Lol. A number of residential agents and non-investors in here. This is commercial real estate. Caveat emptor, always. Attorneys are not specialists in real estate due diligence, they're specialists in the law and procedures", "replies": [], "depth": 1}, {"id": "ikzyk2q", "text": "It literally costs you nothing to employ a buyers agent. They would be help make sure that all the information you get from the seller is accurate so you're not getting ripped off.   \n\n\nYou have nothing to gain and everything to lose by not getting one.", "replies": [], "depth": 1}, {"id": "il0vgi4", "text": "I\u2019ve sold a lot of government and REO property. A good rule of thumb, offer 18% off the asking price, they don\u2019t need approval from higher ups with that margin. Judging from the banks I\u2019ve dealt with. If the asset needs significant work, look at the land and location and decide if the building can\u2019t be saved for your purposes, is it worth the work? If you have to spend 30% more to make the building usable, that\u2019s probably the max I would say is a good deal.\n\nFYI: it\u2019s always good to work with a broker who knows what\u2019s going on in these situations.", "replies": [{"id": "il2hjpv", "text": "Thank you!  The building is definitely worth saving.   We were actually thinking about low-balling them, since the place has been on the market for a long time and it's not suitable for most businesses (for our purposes it's fine) but we will give that 18% number some thought.", "replies": [{"id": "il8afj8", "text": "NP, that\u2019s only a rule of thumb. It\u2019s could be overpriced or has enough hair that a low offer would be appropriate. I guess that depends on what other options you have and how they stack against each other. If it\u2019s been on the market a long time (6 or more months) then low ball is probably the best path forward. Often times REO property that\u2019s been on market for years can be negotiated down a significant amount but the offer has to be approved by committee.", "replies": [], "depth": 3}], "depth": 2}], "depth": 1}, {"id": "il2kfkf", "text": "Doesn't hurt to ask one. Just ask how they get paid and what they can do. The main thing's basically, how are you paying for it, how are you submitting the offer, and how are they transferring title. There's also due diligence items like property inspections, surveys, and things like that, which may affect the title transfer depending on the depth of your \"due diligence\" phase.", "replies": [], "depth": 1}, {"id": "il3ebb6", "text": "It\u2019s a tough position to put a buyer\u2019s agent in as the phone call they\u2019ll have to make to the seller\u2019s agent is awkward. That said, it\u2019s a business and they can file a hurt feelings report if they\u2019re upset about it. The seller\u2019s agent has fiduciary obligations to the seller so having your own representation can level the playing field. Even beyond basic business terms in the contract you\u2019ll likely need to go through due diligence on the property and simultaneously arrange financing. This process is more complex than some people realize and having someone help you through it can be invaluable.", "replies": [], "depth": 1}, {"id": "imrcmp2", "text": "For me you really need to have a commercial real estate agent so that it makes easier to find a commercial building listing. \n\n[Realtor Sherwood Park](https://www.marissamacintyre.ca/)", "replies": [], "depth": 1}]