Is a Buyer's Broker Necessary?
If I have already identified an investment property (STL/NNN), am confident in my numbers, and use an attorney to review/draft paperwork, do I really need a Buyer's Broker?  I purchased a similar property last year, so I have gone through the process.  I did use a broker for that deal but feel as though I still did the majority of the work finding the property, due diligence and coordinating everything with the lender leading up to closing.   They just seemed to be a middle man for communication.

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Am I missing something since my previous experience wasn't the best?

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As a followup, if I don't use a broker, is that ever a good negotiation point for reducing the sales price?  From my understanding, the seller's agent usually would get an increased commission from acting as a dual agent and it would still be less than if there were brokers on both sides (i.e. 4% vs 6% split)  Yes, I am aware that a "dual agent" really is not representing my interests, but the sellers.
[{"id": "f4lh54i", "text": "If you can\u2019t negotiate a discount on the price for not using a broker, then you\u2019re not losing anything by having one. Without your own representation, everyone else involved in the sale technically works for the seller.", "replies": [{"id": "f4lje9s", "text": "Agreed.  If a price reduction can't be negotiated as a result then, I would use a broker (albeit a different one).  I was just curious if I was missing something in my previous experience.", "replies": [{"id": "f4mknh0", "text": "The reduction in price better be bigger than their commission!", "replies": [], "depth": 3}, {"id": "f4morhj", "text": "A good buyers agent should provide enough value to justify them getting paid. If not, then you shouldn\u2019t hire one.", "replies": [], "depth": 3}], "depth": 2}], "depth": 1}, {"id": "f4lihls", "text": "Seller pays the agent fee not you. Why wouldn\u2019t you want one?", "replies": [{"id": "f4lkik6", "text": "From my understanding the Seller pays a commission to both the Sellers broker and the Buyer's Broker.  In the case where there is not a Buyers broker, the commission the Seller pays is reduced but is still more than the Seller's broker would have received if they split the commission.  (I also know this is not as standard of  a structure as it is on the residential side).\n\nIf I can use that reduced commission in the negotiation process then I could get a reduced sales price, the Seller's broker gets a larger commission and the Seller still nets the same amount.  A win all around as long as I am not giving up something significant by foregoing a broker.\n\nThat is my thought process at least I was hoping to get feedback on.", "replies": [{"id": "f4mj0cy", "text": "The sellers broker making a discounted fee if there's no buyers broker is something that's negotiated in the listing agreement between seller and their broker, so it may be discounted and it may not be. Even if there is no discount in the listing agreement, the listing broker may be willing to come off the fee a bit since there's no buy side broker. That said, since you've ID'd the property already you might see if a broker will represent you but split the buy side fee with you.", "replies": [{"id": "f4mlj87", "text": "I am going to reach out to a few additional brokers I've met and see if they would be interested and willing.  Thanks.", "replies": [], "depth": 4}], "depth": 3}], "depth": 2}, {"id": "f4ns27z", "text": "Because between two offers at the same price, the seller will pick the one without buyer broker since they get to pocket the difference.", "replies": [], "depth": 2}], "depth": 1}, {"id": "f4lkhqd", "text": "The seller saves money by not paying the buyers broker so you could get a slightly better deal.  However, using a broker will save the buyer time, may help to find a better listing, and a good broker will know what to look for when negotiating on behalf of the buyer.  It's almost always worth it unless you an experienced investor.", "replies": [], "depth": 1}, {"id": "f4lymxw", "text": "No, it\u2019s not a good point if the property is listed. \n\nIf it\u2019s unlisted the buyer side agent would have to negotiate their fee into the closing costs, usually by convincing the seller to pay them.\n\nThe seller doesn\u2019t pay more because there is another agent present. It\u2019s based on a flat (rarely variable) commission % that gets split between the two agents. So if it\u2019s listed with a 6% commission and you don\u2019t have an agent present, the listing agent gets the whole 6%, whereas if you bring an agent to the table they\u2019d get 3% and your agent would get 3%.\n\nIt also sounds like you got a mediocre buying agent. Lending process and due diligence are entirely on the buyer to deal with, that\u2019s not an agent\u2019s job. However, an agent should be providing you with a market analysis and property sales data as well as negotiation insights. A good buyers side agent should also provide you with insight into the surrounding market and/or bring you opportunities that match your buying criteria.\n\nThere is also a third option you aren\u2019t seeing and you can negotiate. Actually, if you were in FL I\u2019d offer this to you myself. Find an agent to do commission rebate upon closing. Let them know you already identified the property and have done all the work, that their sole job for you is submitting the contract. Because of that, you\u2019d like to recoup some of the commission in the form of a credit towards purchase price. I\u2019d say half the commission is a fair number, and there is bound to be an agent out there who can figure out that it makes sense to take what\u2019s essentially free money for very little work.", "replies": [{"id": "f4m2mgu", "text": "Thank you.  \n\nThis particular property was found listed on CREXi.  \n\nI didn't mean to imply that I expected the agent to be doing due diligence or the sort, but I at least thought I would get more support in finding the resources I needed during due diligence and keeping tabs on everything.  I felt as though I was reminding them about what was needed and when.\n\nIf a broker is bring me a deal, I totally see them earning the commission.  However with me finding the deal, running the numbers, etc. I find it hard to find where the agent would be bringing me $50-60K in value on this sized deal.  Granted if the the commission is fixed and the seller is paying the same amount regardless, then I am looking at it wrong.\n\nAre commission rebates normal?  I am in NC and can reach out to a few other commercial agents that I have met, but never worked with.  Is this something an agent at a larger firm could do or am I needing to find a smaller independent agent?", "replies": [{"id": "f4mgief", "text": "You can find any sized firm that\u2019s licensed, though you may find luck with smaller firms and/or newer agents. I think you\u2019d find the best success going with a non big brand brokerage.\n\nIt\u2019s not terribly common and takes a more creative agent but should be totally legal in NC (FL has notoriously stringent RE laws).\n\nIt\u2019s more of a speciality package my firm offers and we often use it as a part of negotiating. \n\nAs per the crexi - if it\u2019s listed by an agent that means the owner has gone into a listing agreement with them (what we would call \u201clisted\u201d). \n\nAnd for your description of how the agent performed that\u2019s an example of them dropping the ball. It\u2019s a lot of money and it\u2019s not hard to stay on top of things", "replies": [{"id": "f4ml88v", "text": "Thanks again for all the info and a new approach to pursue.", "replies": [{"id": "f4mtrjz", "text": "No problem, good luck hunting and let me know if you ever have an itch to buy in Florida. \n\nIf you ever have other questions feel free to pm me", "replies": [], "depth": 5}], "depth": 4}], "depth": 3}], "depth": 2}], "depth": 1}, {"id": "f4p90p0", "text": "Just some things to think about.\n\nIf the seller is willing to take a discount on price if you don't use a buyer broker, then the seller probably would've accepted the same discount if you did use a broker. You can't assume that the seller is saving 50% of the commission in that case. Plus, if you do your due diligence on the property and calculate how much appreciation the seller is profiting, you might realize that the seller is happy with paying a buyer broker, taking less than asking price, and heading to the bank with the profit. \n\nGetting the deal to close is the most important thing. Sometimes, having a buyer broker validate the buyer's seriousness is beneficial for the seller/listing broker.", "replies": [], "depth": 1}, {"id": "f4rfyth", "text": "Really depends on the seller broker. When I represent clients I treat all buyers with the same respect, honestly and transparency I'd treat anyone else. While brokers technically represent the interest of the seller, it's not in the interest of the seller to not close the deal (typically). You should demand this kind of fairness from any broker you work with.", "replies": [], "depth": 1}]