AdventuresInCRE Modeling Course
Has anyone here completed A.CRE's financial modeling course? Is this course the best value in terms of improving one's employability (all else equal) relative to REFM or ULI? I've heard that they put graduates on a list for potential contract work. Does anyone know if that's true? How realistic would it be to complete RE financial models for a decent amount of side income based on the knowledge and skill set developed in the course? 

Thanks for any help.
[{"id": "fsbs99r", "text": "Don\u2019t know about adventures in CRE but I\u2019ve completed Break into CRE courses and I can\u2019t recommend them enough.", "replies": [{"id": "fsd577s", "text": "Agree. BreakintoCRE (Justin Kivel) is a great resource, specially the RE interview exam &amp; modules. Good training for folks looking to improve underwriting and GP/LP waterfall skills.\n\nFor ARGUS, [enroll in the UCLA extension course](https://www.uclaextension.edu/real-estate/real-estate/course/using-argus-and-spreadsheet-programs-commercial-real-estate-analysis), it's around $800, you get 11 weeks of training and 6 months of ARGUS license for your own use. Available remotely and on-premises if you happen to live in LA.", "replies": [], "depth": 2}, {"id": "fsgfcsc", "text": "You must be a novice to think there is any education in Justin's courses.  He misinforms and doesn't even have a grasp of basic real estate concepts.", "replies": [{"id": "fshnj0g", "text": "I agree to your comment about me being a novice. I\u2019m actually a student, so a novice would be much better than I am. However, I strongly disagree to your point about Justin\u2019s courses. They\u2019re great and any beginner or student should consider taking them.", "replies": [{"id": "fshrw6q", "text": "Did you compare the youtube on Cap rates by Justin Kivel and the PCI Teaches youtube.  They are opposite.  If you are confused which one is correct I can address any questions you have.  Why do you want to learn a fundamental like direct capitalization backwards?  It is this backwards learning that scammers use to take advantage of novices.", "replies": [{"id": "fsj7rs7", "text": "Thanks for this justification. I\u2019ll certainly look into it. I took his classes to polish my modeling skills. That\u2019s literally my focus when I am watching his videos. I don\u2019t spend time on videos where he is explaining the concepts per se. I am lucky to be in a decent school where my professors took care of explaining the fundamentals. For concepts like direct capitalization I refer the assigned textbook in one of my classes \u201cReal Estate Finance and Investments by Brueggeman and Fisher\u201d. \n\nHowever, when it comes to making models, i\u2019ve to say that Justin does an amazing job. I really like the way he explains the formulas and a few tricks here and there. He\u2019s also super responsive if and when you post a question. \n\nAnd regardless of what your opinion might be, I don\u2019t think he can be called a scammer. That\u2019s being too harsh. RE is a pretty subjective topic and often i\u2019ve seen people taking different approaches to get to the same end goal.", "replies": [{"id": "fskqkle", "text": "Check this one out,   [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xK\\_S4D2AA2s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xK_S4D2AA2s) \n\nHe is trying to calculate a cap rate without a V!   V=i/r  There is no reason for an investor to try to calculate a cap rate.\n\nHe is trying to calculate NOI using cap rates!  That is crazy dangerous!\n\nFinally he uses cap rate correctly to value a property but he omits the most important piece of the process that is where did he get the cap rate?", "replies": [{"id": "fsmurm6", "text": "I'm an investor and a lender. As an investor, it is very important to calculate a cap rate when I have the NOI and a whisper price from a broker. NOI/Price = Capitalization Rate   \n\n\nIn the same vein, when I come across a deal that has a whisper and the broker estimates a cap rate (or I know the market cap) I can get useful info regarding the NOI -- Price x Cap Rate = NOI -- especially if I want to do a BOE calc to see if the property will DCR.   \n\n\nI'm trying to understand why you feel that is crazy dangerous. IRR, CBRE, REIS, CoStar and host of other sources all have CapRate estimations available for a given market. There are no big secrets there.", "replies": [{"id": "fsnq8x1", "text": "OK, What would be the point of NOI/asking price=r ?\nWhat if the asking price was $100,000 higher, or $200,000!?   So if r = 8 what does that do for me?   How is that not a complete waste of time?\n\nIn the same vein, asking price x cap rate = NOI !!!  NOI based on asking price?  Yeah, I don't think so.  Do you really think if their asking price was $100,000 more that that would decrease the NOI?  You're not in the market for a bridge are you?  Lemme know.\n\nCap rate estimations are just that, estimations.  Like a MSRP.  I think most people ignore MSRP. What is dangerous is working with a made up number (asking price) and novice investors start treating it like a real number that they think is market value.  Direct capitalization is the process to determine probable market value.  Direct cap does not need an asking price to work, in fact it is a number that should be ignored.", "replies": [], "depth": 8}, {"id": "fsrs143", "text": "&gt;I'm trying to understand why you feel that is crazy dangerous.\n\n He is trying to calculate NOI using cap rates! That is crazy dangerous! \n\nDo you calculate NOI by using the asking price?  Do you know the proper way to calculate NOI?  If you do then you should understand how doing it incorrectly is dangerous.", "replies": [], "depth": 8}, {"id": "fvif1cb", "text": "&gt;I'm an investor and a lender. As an investor, it is very important to calculate a cap rate\n\nHey, did you see my explanation?  If you are going to be an investor and a lender it is important to have a correct understanding of direct capitalization.  Let me know if you have any questions.", "replies": [], "depth": 8}], "depth": 7}], "depth": 6}], "depth": 5}], "depth": 4}, {"id": "fshtdyx", "text": "You also might want to check out this thread,   [https://www.reddit.com/r/CommercialRealEstate/comments/gslb5w/learning\\_to\\_underwrite\\_a\\_cre\\_deal\\_what/](https://www.reddit.com/r/CommercialRealEstate/comments/gslb5w/learning_to_underwrite_a_cre_deal_what/)   There was a poster that has taken Justin Kivel's classes and WAS defending him but seems he realized I was right and Justin took his money and gave him inferior education because he deleted some posts, took his name off the others and closed his account!  Hurts when you realize you were defending a scammer that took your money.", "replies": [], "depth": 4}], "depth": 3}], "depth": 2}], "depth": 1}, {"id": "fsc58ir", "text": "I think it\u2019s always good to build skills. Is someone going to hire you because you took that specific course? Probably not. But if you can be more proficient once you have a job, you\u2019re going to be more useful and get more work and build your resume. I\u2019d also recommend ARGUS.\n\nThe important thing is to understand the concepts. Being able to build a correct DCF model from scratch, model waterfalls, calculate returns etc will help you understand the mechanics and make things more intuitive.", "replies": [], "depth": 1}, {"id": "fsck00h", "text": "Hey there. I can't speak to A.CRE's course as a way to directly improve your resume because I never took it. That said, I can absolutely speak to the skills that A.CRE's videos will help you develop. This guy is the real deal, and the modeling scenarios that he walks you through are directly relevant to what you do in REPE and REIT world. I can honestly say that [this video](https://youtu.be/5L6m3lyztu8) comprehensively and single-handedly prepared me for the REPE and REIT modeling tests I had to take when I was interviewing for my current role. One REPE's modeling test I took was almost identical to the one he modeled in this interview. So to the extent that the skills you learn from his videos are indirectly helpful in general employability and interview-ability...I am a believer. \n\nI know this doesn't directly answer the question but I hope it helps provide some color.", "replies": [{"id": "fsdtvi8", "text": "I had a modeling test that was the exact same as this minus the debt. I solved it correctly but unfortunately didn\u2019t get an offer.", "replies": [], "depth": 2}], "depth": 1}, {"id": "fscx2jy", "text": "One of my mentees recently received the certificate, and states that the guys who run Adventures in CRE told him they'd put him on the list for contract work, but so far nothing.  He seems to have gotten a lot of attention on his LinkedIn, but nothing in terms of a job despite getting a shout out from them.\n\nI wouldn't be surprised if they do have contract work available, as they are probably making a very nice amount of money with these classes, can charge a fee to place people, and their overhead is low since they aren't accredited with any institution.  \n\nAs someone else said, if I'm hiring, and someone has a certificate from A.CRE, v someone who has more experience, I'm going with the experience every time.  Now if they are equal, I still would go with personality before the A.CRE certificate.  \n\nBottom line, if you're looking to learn how to model and you can't do so on the job, classes like A.CRE are fine, but don't expect them to get you a job outside of maybe a few shops that are really close to Belasco and Burton.", "replies": [], "depth": 1}, {"id": "fscx673", "text": "Also, don't waste your money on ULI, their classes are shit and terrible if you're trying to learn how to model.", "replies": [], "depth": 1}, {"id": "fsd1evg", "text": "You should hit up Spencer Burton on LinkedIn or on his website, great guy who runs AdventuresInCRE\n\nI have taken the course, I would highly recommend it. Also took the BIWS Real Estate and REIT class as well. I think Spencer is better at explainining things than the BIWS classes but the examples in BIWS can be a little more challenging.", "replies": [], "depth": 1}, {"id": "fsdef5f", "text": "Can't speak for Adventures in CRE, but I've taken courses at  [Top Shelf Academy](http://tsmfinancialacademy.com/)! I found them helpful and I was able to use the skills to land a job. Understanding the concepts is the most important part, and having that personalized Q&amp;A time at the end of the courses was beneficial to me.", "replies": [{"id": "fsdskdb", "text": "Has 6 comments, all are promoting this course and his name is obviously from the company.\n\nIf you're going to try to sell your courses don't do it so shadily, just own up to the fact you're another option on the market.", "replies": [], "depth": 2}, {"id": "fsfike1", "text": "&gt;Top Shelf Academy\n\nYour Crash Course is 1 hour. Are attendees supposed to purchase the full model and that \"course\" is a walkthrough of it? Or will attendees walk away with a fulling functioning model after learning from the 1 hr course?", "replies": [{"id": "fsnjk23", "text": "The course covers how to underwrite certain property types using any excel model - not a specific model. Feel free to pm me if you have any other questions! :)", "replies": [], "depth": 3}], "depth": 2}], "depth": 1}, {"id": "fsdtjwg", "text": "I\u2019m starting it this week. How long does it take? Currently furloughed as of last month so I have too much free time.", "replies": [], "depth": 1}, {"id": "fse3dtm", "text": "Peter Linnemen's course, Real Estate Financial Modeling, has been great. I learned about it here on reddit. He's the guy that built the Wharton School's MRED program.\n\n&amp;#x200B;\n\n[https://www.getrefm.com/training-and-certification/refm-certification-program-in-excel-for-real-estate/](https://www.getrefm.com/training-and-certification/refm-certification-program-in-excel-for-real-estate/)", "replies": [], "depth": 1}]