Super apprehensive of an entry level gig at Marcus &amp; Millichap. Is it possible to grind it out or are you washed out in 3 months?
Is it possible to even make it? 1 year without getting paid seems crazy as well. I want to take it, but seems like a scam honestly.
[{"id": "hzqkdye", "text": "Not a scam, but very difficult. Good training as I understand it.. lot of those guys turn into lease brokers or real estate agents instead. Commercial is a long game, if you need cash broker some lease agreements. Quick $", "replies": [], "depth": 1}, {"id": "hzqkgvi", "text": "They\u2019re a mid market at best if you\u2019re in a global city.", "replies": [], "depth": 1}, {"id": "hzqn1ku", "text": "Its basically an MLM.  Wind up on top and you'll make money I guess.  Their business is basically using the 80% that don't ever get a commission as free labor.  If you can make it through that and then get your own bitches you'll be fine.", "replies": [{"id": "hzqp8ji", "text": "I mean it\u2019s definitely worth it in the long run, just wondering what percent of guys make it through lol", "replies": [{"id": "hzqpo6e", "text": "M&amp;M doesn't have a monopoly on CRE Brokerage.....  Its not an easy start anywhere but no one else really structures like they do.", "replies": [], "depth": 3}], "depth": 2}, {"id": "hzrrjpt", "text": "Would you say that\u2019s the case with all brokerages then? Including a firm like CBRE?", "replies": [{"id": "hzsdibt", "text": "No.  Most big brokers tend to invest more in their agents and recruit from support positions like analysts.  They are also more team oriented where you can walk into some deal flow.  \n\nDont get me wrong you will prospect anywhere, its a part of the business, but m&amp;m is well known for putting anyone with fingers on a phone.\n\nM&amp;m is cap markets mostly too.  A firm like cbre is going to be across more asset classes and cre business lines .", "replies": [{"id": "hzt30yp", "text": "Ok that makes sense. Thank you.", "replies": [], "depth": 4}], "depth": 3}], "depth": 2}], "depth": 1}, {"id": "hzqojkf", "text": "I\u2019m having a good laugh at all the comments here. OP what do you mean no pay for 1 year? Expound please. What\u2019s your job?", "replies": [{"id": "hzqp64b", "text": "It\u2019s a 100% commission based &amp; you don\u2019t close your first deal for roughly 1 year into it. \n\nSo basically no pay for 1 year which seems absurd to me.", "replies": [{"id": "hzqpiqz", "text": "It took me 6 months to close my first deal. My first years income was about $48,000 commission only. I\u2019m on year 3 now. I\u2019m scheduled to close &gt;$17 million this year. Commissions and fees will be at least $300,000 and potentially go up to $500,000. My boss and mentor just closed his 7th year at $1 million in gross commission and fees I wish I would have bet on myself earlier in life. I\u2019d be retired by now. ;)", "replies": [{"id": "hzqpqpb", "text": "At Marcus &amp; Millichap or a different shop?", "replies": [{"id": "hzqpydt", "text": "No not Marcus. Boutique shop in a top 20 market.", "replies": [{"id": "hzqqbhi", "text": "Gotcha. That makes sense. I want to bet on myself, but the set up they have seems iffy. Have read a lot of bad reviews on them. Haven\u2019t heard back from anywhere else really.", "replies": [{"id": "hzqr7m1", "text": "What market are you in? Do you have an asset class or product you\u2019re attracted to specifically?", "replies": [{"id": "hzqrkfg", "text": "Top 10-15 market. Interested in industrial and life science. Marker for my city is huge for life sciences", "replies": [{"id": "hzqrnpo", "text": "Triangle area?", "replies": [{"id": "hzqs5ih", "text": "Northeast if that\u2019s what you\u2019re asking lol.", "replies": [{"id": "hzqt4ru", "text": "Ah, I figured northeast or RDU-Triangle area. I\u2019m a big believer in doing a personal assessment of yourself\u2026 how do I work? What kind of environment do I thrive in? What am I best at? For instance, I\u2019m very social, I enjoy making calls, being on the phone and meeting new people. I\u2019m also very good at finance and math. I have a friend at Cushman, he does landlord leasing. He\u2019s very different. Enjoys projects, very visual guy and I imagine when he started, needed a lot of assistance. I absolutely hate landlord side leasing. Can\u2019t stand it. If you gave me a listing, I wouldn\u2019t take it.", "replies": [{"id": "hzqtlpy", "text": "I definitely don\u2019t thrive in a huge corporate setting doing 150 calls a day, but I\u2019m a huge people person and enjoying building connections. Just super tough to break into smaller shops so I might just have to bite the bullet to start off Lol. How did you break into a smaller boutique shop?", "replies": [{"id": "hzqu3vq", "text": "If you\u2019d like DM me with your email and I can send you a list of deal makers in your market. That\u2019s how I\u2019d start. And just call and ask to interview. Are you licensed in your state yet?", "replies": [{"id": "hzqufu0", "text": "I\u2019m in the process of it right now. I\u2019ll send you a DM right now.", "replies": [], "depth": 14}, {"id": "iazo9z8", "text": "Hi! Would you be willing to share this with me for the Boston area?", "replies": [], "depth": 14}], "depth": 13}], "depth": 12}], "depth": 11}], "depth": 10}], "depth": 9}], "depth": 8}], "depth": 7}], "depth": 6}], "depth": 5}], "depth": 4}, {"id": "hzqq5jt", "text": "Just out of curiosity do you attribute that to M&amp;M?  Like if you went to CBRE/C&amp;W/Newmark/Colliers/Whatever instead do you think you'd not have succeeded?\n\n--edit--\n\nNM see your other comment now.  Understand some of us, at least myself, aren't shitting all over CRE brokerage.  We just think M&amp;M is a call center who puts untrained agents on phones and makes the entire real estate community shittier.", "replies": [{"id": "hzqqx26", "text": "I don\u2019t believe those shops are the right fit for my personality. I\u2019ve known other brokers that excel and thrive at the national brokerages. They\u2019re just not my cup of tea. Very corporate environment. I like my scrappy little independent shop. We recruit kids. I mean guys and ladies in their early 20s and I absolutely love being around them and mentoring them. We don\u2019t have to be this stuffy corporate thing.", "replies": [{"id": "hzqrp7k", "text": "I mean i'm in the same boat and agree.  My post wasn't anti brokerage, and I like no one messing with me and not playing office politics personally.  Every deal I do with M&amp;M is a cluster where some kid who has no idea whats going on and is 3 strings down on the marketing tries his best to avoid doing any work so he can make his calls for the week.  I can't imagine working for them personally.", "replies": [], "depth": 6}, {"id": "hzqs32i", "text": "I would love to work at a smaller shop, but I\u2019m not sure how to even break in. Can\u2019t find any job postings and reaching out normally doesn\u2019t work when you have no experience", "replies": [], "depth": 6}], "depth": 5}, {"id": "hzqqxkd", "text": "That is what I\u2019m afraid of lol. 0 prior real estate experience and getting fed to the wolves in the call center doesn\u2019t seem like a decent path in CRE imo. But again I have 0 CRE knowledge.", "replies": [{"id": "hzqrifa", "text": "I don\u2019t know what M&amp;M does in their call center but I would LOVE to know. How many calls day? Who do they have you call? What market do they have you work? I guarantee if you did the same work at an independent brokerage you\u2019d make way more, much faster.", "replies": [], "depth": 6}, {"id": "hzqrv30", "text": "what is your experience and background?", "replies": [{"id": "hzqs8qm", "text": "Mine? In CRE none. Fresh out of college looking to break in.", "replies": [], "depth": 7}], "depth": 6}], "depth": 5}], "depth": 4}], "depth": 3}], "depth": 2}], "depth": 1}, {"id": "hzqrlxh", "text": "The firm doesn\u2019t matter. The team is what matters. From my experience, I wouldn\u2019t go anywhere if I was a lone wolf. That makes the odds of success a nightmare. The bigger shops tend to force you on a team. In any event, it does take a while to make $$.", "replies": [], "depth": 1}, {"id": "hzqtleq", "text": "Worked at M&amp;M for 5 years, it depends heavily on your effort and if how good of a mentor they pair you with. The training is good if you have no experience and I was able to move to a different company without a college degree based on my time at M&amp;M.\n\nI sold my fist property in 5 months after I started, but most don\u2019t see a paycheck for 8-12 months. Very high turnover, there were over 50 people who started and quit within 6 months.", "replies": [{"id": "hzqupce", "text": "That\u2019s good to hear. That is my major concern I guess is getting placed without a decent mentor.", "replies": [{"id": "hzrid5x", "text": "Request a team that has high market share in your city or a national team.", "replies": [{"id": "hzrunhy", "text": "Is it true they make you pay for training as well?", "replies": [{"id": "hzrxcmt", "text": "I think every manager is different but $500 got taken out of my first paycheck.", "replies": [], "depth": 5}, {"id": "hzshi2x", "text": "The nyc branch charges like 2k\u2026..", "replies": [{"id": "hzsias9", "text": "Yikes lol", "replies": [], "depth": 6}], "depth": 5}], "depth": 4}], "depth": 3}], "depth": 2}], "depth": 1}, {"id": "hzqxln4", "text": "It\u2019s sink or swim.\n\nIf you can navigate interpersonal relationships, office politics, bureaucracy, and start closing some deals ASAP- you\u2019ll do very well.\n\nM&amp;M is a highly competitive environment. Most offices have a frat-house vibe. \n\nBut the top guys do make bank.\n\nIf you don\u2019t have a safety net, it\u2019s a hard no.", "replies": [{"id": "hzqy8ct", "text": "I don\u2019t really have a safety net which is my only hesitation.", "replies": [{"id": "hzr2gwp", "text": "Not worth it.", "replies": [], "depth": 3}, {"id": "hzridxw", "text": "Don't do it. Look for a W2 low paying gig at another firm.   A 30 or 40 thousand salary might seem really low to anyone with a college degree, but its not in that realm.", "replies": [], "depth": 3}, {"id": "hzromd3", "text": "Then I would not do it. Look for an analyst job instead, maybe on the debt side.", "replies": [], "depth": 3}], "depth": 2}], "depth": 1}, {"id": "hzqxx9a", "text": "It's not something you attempt halfheartedly. If you're doubting yourself before you begin, don't waste the time and money.", "replies": [{"id": "hzqycnr", "text": "I\u2019m not doubting myself, not bringing in any income for 8-12 months just might be tough for me. That is why I was just asking how many people actually make it.", "replies": [{"id": "hzro8mx", "text": "The guys (and they are almost always guys) who believe they will make it are the ones that usually do.\n\nThe guys who hope they will make it (sounds like you) usually do not. This is nothing to be ashamed about, I think I\u2019d be in this category as well \u2014 but it takes someone very type A with high motor and some level of natural sales aptitude.\n\nIf you\u2019re not prepared to go at least 9 months without a check, then you shouldn\u2019t do it. I have a couple of good friends who have worked for M&amp;M\u2026 and I could have told you which ones were going to make it and which ones were going to fail ahead of time. 6 guys I knew who were a couple years behind me in school did it, they started together out of undergrad. 2 made it and the other 4 did not. Only one of the results surprised me.", "replies": [{"id": "hzrowvt", "text": "I think I could excel at it, but I am not sure if I could survive the 9 months without a check. I think I am going to try and land an analyst position. But it seems like those are harder to come by. Seems like MM will take anyone lol.", "replies": [{"id": "hzrtpjm", "text": "Of course they would, because they aren\u2019t paying you haha. You\u2019re better served doing some analysis first if you couldn\u2019t make it that long without a check, and honestly bankers (originators) often make the biggest bucks anyways.", "replies": [{"id": "hzrud1c", "text": "Haha exactly, I just read they have a bunch of hidden fees for training and stuff. I think the analyst is my path for now lol.", "replies": [{"id": "hzrvcdp", "text": "Glad we could help.", "replies": [], "depth": 7}], "depth": 6}], "depth": 5}], "depth": 4}], "depth": 3}], "depth": 2}], "depth": 1}, {"id": "hzr0lto", "text": "Even the folks who hire for M&amp;M will tell you it's not for everyone. It is a call center with weekly dialing minimums using their database. Be SURE you are assigned to an active mentor in the first three months and make them pay attention to you. The majority of washouts I saw either weren't assigned a mentor or their mentor bailed on them.\n\nThere are other options if you're not a type A grinder.\n\nIt's not bad, but it's not for everyone.", "replies": [{"id": "hzr77ut", "text": "Assuming you worked at M&amp;M, for how long and when did you see your first paycheck? I really want to break into CRE, but I don't have a safety net at the moment.", "replies": [{"id": "hzrb62t", "text": "Happy cake day. :)\n\nI worked for a vendor, thus seeing many brokers from many different brokerages, including M&amp;M.", "replies": [{"id": "hzrcbp1", "text": "Thank you lol. And gotcha haha.", "replies": [{"id": "hzrcoxx", "text": "Most large cities have midsized and large brokerages with young broker programs, other than M&amp;M. It's been discussed here with some pretty significant detail. Don't be afraid to look around.", "replies": [], "depth": 5}], "depth": 4}], "depth": 3}, {"id": "hzrg5yx", "text": "I would get a safety net. Live with you parents, get a second job at Wendy\u2019s, it will take 6 months before you start to see anything.", "replies": [], "depth": 3}], "depth": 2}, {"id": "hzuqy31", "text": "This is false. M&amp;M does not have a centralized database from which people call from. It does have an internal MLS system but that is completely different. Each team and in many cases each individual broker is responsible for their own database. The idea of it being a call center is also not quite accurate. If you are in a good office with a good manager, the focus will be on learning your sub-market to as deep of a level as you can stand/are capable and then focusing on making the number of touches necessary to build relationships via cold calling. It is the traditional sales model (8 touches equal a sale yada yada) combined with CRE knowledge and deal management.", "replies": [{"id": "hzut1xz", "text": "This may be a terminology issue as those I interacted with used the term database. Thank you for the distinction. It's important.\n\nAnd I think we can agree that if there is a weekly call minimum, and a goat room full of cubicals it has a distinctly call center feel (after being in a number of call centers with and without auto dialers).\n\nBut since we're discussing specifics, the M&amp;M offices I interacted with had a distinct 'boys club' feel, where the number of women was limited to higher level positions (yay CRE), and we're always from other firms like Kidder, JLL, or CBRE.  I never found a young women hired by M&amp;M, and when I asked a contact (female) in the office, she told me that the expectations and hiring process just didn't produce many suitable female candidates. I'm not sure if that was office specific or your observation as well?  I wonder if this is a result of the differences we're finding between my observations and your experiences?", "replies": [{"id": "hzuw4m2", "text": "Your advice on mentor and team were spot on. That is the make or break unless you are just a REALLY good broker and can run on your own. Frankly I think going to a team, building one or two key clients into your business and going solo within M&amp;M is a really solid plan. Knew several guys who worked maybe one week a month, closing a deal or two every quarter, not having to split with a senior and thus taking home a few hundred k per year. Also saw guys try this and starve. \n\nThe smile and dial view of M&amp;M is somewhat right and somewhat wrong. It is a smaller part of a larger picture in that M&amp;M's model is to get into owner's eyesight in the right moment in the ownership process to land the sale. To do that successfully requires a superior market knowledge AND buyer-pool knowledge as well as the number of \"touches\" to get them to remember you - the best M&amp;M brokers do this to an exceptional degree. The training and model is actually built around this kind of deep level specialization, its just that M&amp;M does a fucking awful job of hiring managers that push this in the training and make it a focus. Instead a lot of the managers are sleazy brokers who couldn't make it themselves and so transitioned to management so they could pay the mortgage (although I understand that with some recent re-shuffles of management, this is starting to change). Those kind of managers just push dial till you die because they only give a shit about the office's bottom line and not the development of the new brokers. Finding an office with a good management structure is just as key as finding a good team/mentor. Best is an office big enough to have two managers; one for the seniors and one for the new/younger guys. \n\nThe women in CRE comments are correct. Although I'd liken it more to Boiler Room than a frat house or Wolf of Wall Street, the reality is it is a boys club. So is the rest of CRE though. We had three female brokers out of a floor of 50ish? One went elsewhere due to a creep of a boss. The other two absolutely crushed it but that was because they grinded the fuck out of their position and didn't take shit from anyone. That's the requirement for either sex though. You have to have that cutthroat fuck off mentality or you will get eaten alive. Unless you are REALLY smart and very good with people, then you kind of rise above that bullshit. They didn't have a hard time fitting in because they outworked and outperformed everyone else.", "replies": [{"id": "hzvj52u", "text": "I think the mentor/team observation is more power in M&amp;M than other brokerages for all the reasons you indicated. However, in my market we have solid middle tier brokerages with new broker development plans (and use them). I'm not sure this is common in all markets and I'd imagine it would be difficult for a new broker to discern between the good middle tier brokerages with a plan and they guys who are bad second dates - lots of promises and no delivery.\n\nHappily, after 20 years in the business I'm seeing more female CRE brokers in all levels, and they don't always have to emulate the ride or die mentality. In addition, I'm seeing more guys come in that are also not tuned to that mentality. They at least teamy, if not collaborative, and as information becomes more readily available to the general public good brokers will have to be knowledgeable guides as opposed to holding up the wall.\n\nBTW this is super enjoyable", "replies": [{"id": "hzvkju3", "text": "Before I left M&amp;M 5 years ago they were starting to push collaboration, to much guffawing and eye-rolling, but still. I think if the industry doesn't start moving heavily in that direction, as you alluded to, the old guard are going to get left behind. The days of being a good broker because you have a huge database of owners is over. Owners don't want the broker that is gonna drag them into a lawsuit because they refused to split fee.", "replies": [], "depth": 6}], "depth": 5}], "depth": 4}], "depth": 3}], "depth": 2}], "depth": 1}, {"id": "hzr7w5t", "text": "Not many make it. I was at a major firm with less investment sales in my market and bought in to the M&amp;M \u201cmentorship\u201d deal so I moved over. I ended up working out a decent split with the senior I worked with and then we went our separate ways after a year. I ended up moving back to my first shop after 3 years there because of the culture. To be successful at M&amp;M you HAVE to drink the Kool-aid and you have to be comfortable shitting on the guy at the next desk to win a listing that he\u2019s pitching. If you are anything other than multifam, those potential sellers are getting minimum 20 calls a week (net lease more) from M&amp;M brokers saying how \u201cthat office is shit, we do more deals\u201d and over promising and under delivering. There are some advantages, the proposals are easy and the years of complete data are great but in the end you have to decide what style you are. Watch Boiler Room, which was every guy in the offices favorite movie, and if that seems like a nightmare then move along.", "replies": [], "depth": 1}, {"id": "hzrc92l", "text": "One year? I know a dude who worked for two years without any pay.\n\nI met a bunch of kids who worked for a CRE broker in my building and I mentioned it. They worked for a lesser agency but they said that they \"throw a deal\" to the younger brokers just so they don't starve like that. \n\nGood luck.", "replies": [], "depth": 1}, {"id": "hzrcefl", "text": "M&amp;M is a factory, the cream will rise to the top or go elsewhere, everyone else will realize they don\u2019t want that life, or transition to something real estate related.  Overall a good name on your resume, you\u2019ll learn a ton, and chances are you\u2019ll make some good connections.  \n\nBut be prepared to churn and burn, and have an exit plan.", "replies": [], "depth": 1}, {"id": "hzrj6ie", "text": "No way in hell should you take a job that doesn\u2019t at least offer you a base salary.", "replies": [{"id": "hzroqtt", "text": "That\u2019s the Marcus model\u2026 if you make it, you can REALLY make it, but he might also flame out like whoa.", "replies": [], "depth": 2}], "depth": 1}, {"id": "hzrjwgh", "text": "I would steer clear of any place that doesn\u2019t pay you for your labor, no matter what the field is.", "replies": [], "depth": 1}, {"id": "hzs23yr", "text": "I washed out in 6 months. I was unfortunate to start about half way through the training class, and got paired with a lazy mentor. But my time there helped land another broker gig more easily. \n\nI would recommend negotiating for the SIP program. At least you get paid minimum wage to basically do the same thing as the other nee associates", "replies": [{"id": "hzs6rb9", "text": "I don\u2019t think the SIP is an option for me lol. Unfortunately. I wish it was though.", "replies": [], "depth": 2}], "depth": 1}, {"id": "hzsi6pj", "text": "Investment sales is a total grind and most firms are chop shops. If you don\u2019t produce with 2 years or at least bring deal flow your out. That being said this is true at any IS firm. Yes M&amp;M is very cut throat and it\u2019s not for everyone but the guys that do well do VERY well. 7 figures. Personally interviewed for them after spending years at another boutique firm and they did not give any consideration to my 20 plus deals I closed and wanted to check my tax returns to verify it so yeh I did not take that job. It could be a great way to learn the business and find a path to a successful career or it could burn you out fast\u2026.. find ex M&amp;M brokers and pick their brains.", "replies": [{"id": "hzsivw4", "text": "I think I might just go the analyst route if I decide to enter CRE. I can\u2019t survive on potentially 1 year without pay", "replies": [{"id": "hzsiydw", "text": "1.5 years for me", "replies": [{"id": "hzsjo6r", "text": "Damn. Props to you, way to grind it out. I just couldn't live off my side hustles unfortunately for that time period. I am going to look for something that has a tiny base at least lol. Hopefully.", "replies": [], "depth": 4}], "depth": 3}], "depth": 2}], "depth": 1}]