Advice on what certifications to take to better my career path in the industry
A bit of my background, I’m in banking, did the retail ladder and have worked my way up to commercial lending, thing is I did this the unconventional way and I’ve never had formal training in any modeling etc but I know what I’m doing and do as many deals if not more  than my peers (3+ yrs). Also I’m the go to person at my institution for government backed lending and all without any degrees/certifications. I didn’t have the opportunity to finish college back in the day due to life pretty much. So the thing is that I want to grow in my career and ask for a higher title/pay as I am an essential part of the team, I am going to be getting certified in 7a lending as soon as possible and this will be my first formal training, but I don’t think this is enough to show on my resume as proof of my knowledge and trying to figure out what else I should pursue. I feel like I’m working my way backwards, but I have a strong feeling I am highly underpaid bc I lack the educational background my peers have even though I can break down the numbers just the same as them. Advice is highly appreciated.
[{"id": "hqxfvja", "text": "Do you actually know if you\u2019re paid less than them?", "replies": [{"id": "hqxgvlj", "text": "Yes, I don\u2019t know their numbers exactly but when I was hired into the role they specifically told me they couldn\u2019t pay me what I was asking which was in line with what others make bc of my lack of credentials in the area and hired me as a \u201ctrial\u201d basis sort of thing, they weren\u2019t sure I could actually do it and told me so and said not to worry they\u2019d transfer me to retail banking if need be and only hired me bc CEO said so, (he knew my name from my prior experience). It was very unconventional. Even HR was baffled. Anyway though I was ok with it at the time bc I wanted to move and to get my foot in the door and I knew my work would speak for itself and it did. They often tell me how essential I am to the team and so on and have been generous with bonus and given me the top % allowance of raises year after year. But all my colleagues for example are VP\u2019s and I\u2019m AVP which is lower in itself, so I know I started lower, and I do more than them. I also step in to help all the VPs with their SBA lending as I know it better AND in some cases have even done the write ups for new VPs and helped them piece deals together that they\u2019ve struggled with. So yeah I\u2019m underpaid.", "replies": [{"id": "hqya5ih", "text": "No doubt you are underpaid, banking is notorious for making you \u201cearn your way\u201d into the higher paying positions over time. I\u2019m not saying this is right or fair, just is what it is. The best way to ladder step up in banking because of this tradition is to get your 3-5 years of experience and move to another FI and get the 20-30% bump, then do it again in a couple years. If you stay in one place and get that \u201cbest 5-8%\u201d feel good increase, you will not capture the step up based on your marketability. 0-3 years pays shit, 3-5 is a whole different tier opportunity, 5+ open the door more. You need a lending coach to help offset your lack of formal degree. Do you prefer sales or analysis?", "replies": [{"id": "hqyp2av", "text": "I prefer sales, and yes you\u2019re right but I\u2019ve made many moves throughout my banking career to get bumps now I don\u2019t make bad money I\u2019m in the six figure range so don\u2019t get me wrong, I know this. But essentially I want to get the credentials on my resume to either a) renegotiate with my current institution or b) make a final leap. My institution is growing and fast so it\u2019s kind of the right place to be at the right time sort of thing so I don\u2019t want to leave but I know I can renegotiate if the job markets continues to be what it is and I continue to be as essential as I am, so do you have any specifics of courses etc that you think would help my situation?", "replies": [{"id": "hqyte5e", "text": "OK, I thought this was about being underpaid. If you are only at three years in commercial lending and making six figures believe me there\u2019s many people in business banking that are making less. Comp depends on your market but anyway your question about education in my opinion you\u2019ll be fighting not having a four year degree the entire rest of your life like I did. (I know that\u2019s not what you wanna hear but) In my view the best thing you can do is take a class each semester towards getting your four year degree, even if it\u2019s online. It will always be held over your head at salary negotiation time in a banking environment. There\u2019s no fast substitute by taking a couple other classes or certifications in my view. Been there done that. Are you wanting to be a chief lending officer/senior lender? Are you wanting to be a sales production lead? Or wanting to fill in your underwriting knowledge? Or just want more money?", "replies": [{"id": "hqyuqtx", "text": "Ultimately I want to be a chief lending officer and yes I agree with you, finishing my 4yr degree will be required, I\u2019m jumping on that online like you suggested little by little, but in the meantime I do want to ask for a current bump and start getting my credentials under my belt so that as I become more experienced as a lender I can build up my resume to move up as time goes. I need to start somewhere with that, I know I\u2019ve been lucky to get where I am without a degree or credentials of any sort but this is probably as far as it\u2019s going to get me and I am underpaid, yes lots of business bankers making less but not where I work; here I am the least paid. So I\u2019m starting with my 7a certification and also going to be doing a class here and there every semester towards my degree and so on but what else can I do?", "replies": [{"id": "hqz191e", "text": "Since this is a commercial real estate thread, I assume the lending you\u2019re doing is all CRE deals, correct? Are you doing any C&amp;I loans? \nHow comfortable are you in understanding and analyzing business financials? Tax returns? Appraisals? How many accounting classes have you had? Can you do UCA cash flow and explain it to someone? How comfortable are you on legal contract knowledge? How about lease analysis? \nWhat loan management/origination systems are you competent with?\nThe reason I ask this and don\u2019t just throw out classes or certification is because I don\u2019t believe a generic one size fits all class list is most effective versus an individualized career track approach based on your strengths and weaknesses. Have you ever done a personal 360 leadership assessment that outlines your strengths and opportunities to grow? Those are extremely effective in narrowing down the best self improvement path.\nBuker and Omega cash flow workshops are solid for understanding cash flow better. Obviously if sales/negotiations/deal structuring is what you want more knowledge in, that\u2019s a different story.\nI hope some of this helps. \ud83d\ude03", "replies": [{"id": "hr0h2we", "text": "Thank you this is helpful and to answer some of your questions I do both CRE and C&amp;I, I\u2019m very comfortable with tax returns, leases, appraisals, business financials, projections, business plans, etc. I\u2019ve had several accounting classes and can absolutely do UCA cash flows and break them down to someone, in fact I do the full analysis of all of this prior to underwriting of course, review analysts write up and present my loans at loan committee so yes I can break them down, spread them and explain them without a problem, but that\u2019s the thing I haven\u2019t done a formal OMEGA training or any of the sort and I\u2019d like to do my resume can speak for itself. I am only familiar with Sageworks as that\u2019s what both of the Banks I\u2019ve done Lending at use. Pretty comfortable with legal contracts as well, I analyze them and I approve them for use for the deals I do so I am aware what to look for etc but surely I doubt I know enough on this, not being in legal I can\u2019t imagine it wouldn\u2019t help to learn more. Sales itself I don\u2019t need help with but the analysis part is where I\u2019m looking. Even though I can break down the financials and put the deal together I can\u2019t possibly know what I\u2019m missing if I never did formal training and like the saying says \u201cyou don\u2019t know what you don\u2019t know\u201d and on regards to the 360 I\u2019m definitely going to look at that! Huge help! See I am a good lender and want to be better but I don\u2019t want to continue down this path of having the knowledge in my head and my resume empty. I want to make sure that the next time I need to go for a position my resume can stand out and hold its own as opposed to me having to explain myself that I CAN do it just nothing on my resume says so. And that\u2019s my struggle. So I want to invest in myself and backtrack sort of to do the formal training and I know I\u2019ll come out a better lender in the end but I don\u2019t know where to begin. I don\u2019t know anyone confidentially that I can ask to sort of be my mentor/sounding board that will tell me you need ABC\u2026 etc. Sales and speaking I can do no problem, but what should my resume list that = CRE and C&amp;I lending leader", "replies": [{"id": "hr0nllq", "text": "Wow, sounds like you have solid commercial lending background. You may be overemphasizing the value of certificates or formal bank specific classes on your resume. Why do you feel your resume is empty? I have hired a number of business lenders with no formal education but strong production and portfolio management skills and they typically outperform the ones with only academic knowledge. Give me a street smart, proactive lender any day! Are you able to show strong production, portfolio management and teamwork for the last 3 years on your resume?\nAbrigo/Sageworks is a decent system if the institution optimized the workflow, which is a whole different topic.\n\nFull disclosure, I\u2019m a 35+ yr bank/credit union Sr Lending Mgr/Chief Lending Officer now semi-retired as a Lending Coach largely for business lenders, but I\u2019m not here to sell you anything, just trying to assist where I can.", "replies": [{"id": "hr24isk", "text": "Wow, really appreciate your responses. I\u2019ve been working hard since day 1 and even though I\u2019ve only been officially doing lending for 3yrs I did a lot to learn my way well before that, when I started it was jump to portfolio management and production immediately so yes I do well with both and have a good track record. But I\u2019ll give you an example of what I mean. When I joined my current institution I didn\u2019t know much of anything of SBA lending because at my prior institution we had an SBA lending fending team that you just referred everything to and so I didn\u2019t get the exposure. When I came I noticed right away SBA was a big thing and not having the background I knew it\u2019d be my shortfall, so I chewed and swallowed that SOP on my own time and learned everything I could about it so I could be in par with the other lenders. Well little did I know that no one in my institution knew SBA well and so by accident I became the SBA go to, and from there on I help lenders structure their deals, I\u2019m the SBA point of contact, I help credit when underwriting with it, I help closing with the legal things and so on. From admins to management I help all. Well a few months ago at a call management announced they\u2019re opening an SBA Lender role and want to hire someone to do exactly what I do, plus package and sell loans . Naturally I thought this can be me! My feelings were confirmed when after the call just about everyone called me to ask me if I was taking the role and so I went to management and asked what I needed to do to get the role. That\u2019s where everything went bad. I was told that even though they appreciate all I\u2019ve been doing with SBA for the Bank that they want an experienced SBA lender who will have been well known in the SBA world and experienced with packaging and selling and everything else and certified and I only know enough \u201cto be dangerous\u201d is how they put it. So I said ok thanks, and I added that I didn\u2019t know what I was doing helping everyone was an actual role and that it takes an extreme amount of time and effort on my part and if I am not going to be the person to be paid to do it then I shouldn\u2019t have to do it and Bank agreed and I started turning down everyone\u2019s reach out for help. This went south fast! Then I went on leave (had a baby) and come back to pick up right where I left off to find many SBA things went incomplete awaiting for my return. First day also management took me out to lunch and asked me to please help with SBA since it would take me a bit to get a pipeline going and that they will pay for me to get certified. So I guess they didn\u2019t find this well-known SBA lender who is experienced with packaging and selling and certified and I guess they\u2019re trying to make amends and I will probably ultimately get that SBA lender role BUT  I don\u2019t want this to happen like this again! I want to have my resume speak for itself when I go for a role and not have to worry that I\u2019m just going to be the alternative because they didn\u2019t find a good candidate. I want to ultimately have your position, and I know that won\u2019t be in 10 yrs or more but to get there I need to move my way up the ladder and for a Small Business Manager role for example what would you look for? Just that their resume shows they can hustle or education? I\u2019m guessing a mix of both and I only have the hustle. BTW it didn\u2019t take me long to be back at a healthy pipeline.", "replies": [{"id": "hr2mr45", "text": "Incidentally, if I was hiring for a Small Business Manager role I would need to know what types and dollar amounts of loans the FI wants to do AND their credit appetite. Many FIs want to do business loans but have a very conservative risk appetite so they basically turn down anything that isn\u2019t a golden slam dunk deal (or they make them go SBA). The delivery of Small business lending is changing rapidly with the growth on FinTechs and bank/CU partnerships. I personally believe Merchant Platform Lending will be how a majority of small business loans will be processed in a couple years, but that\u2019s another story. I would want a good people manager with solid soft skills. Are you being passed up due to their perception of your people management skills perhaps?", "replies": [{"id": "hr3e6ft", "text": "No, I have a strong people management background, and I haven\u2019t gone for this role yet, but I\u2019d like to in the 3-5 yr mark as I work my way up the ladder. And I want to make sure I have my degree by then and I thank you so much for all the answers and help navigating this. Based on your responses I\u2019ve decided finishing my 4yr degree is top priority. I have an associates already so I\u2019m going to enroll online and transfer credits to finish my degree and go from there. Honestly the more I think about it this is I think what really makes me feel like I\u2019m not good enough and holds me back from really growing. I like to excel at what I do and have been able to do it in every position I\u2019ve ever held but that 4yr degree is a must I guess. And I loved school, I wish I would\u2019ve had the opportunity to finish when I was younger; but it\u2019s never too late, better start now!", "replies": [{"id": "hr4ogar", "text": "You go girl!", "replies": [], "depth": 13}], "depth": 12}], "depth": 11}], "depth": 10}, {"id": "hr2li4u", "text": "When the bank turned you down for the SBA Program Manager position, did you ask what specifically you lack in order to be in position to be a strong candidate in the future? A successful SBA program takes more than 1 person, was there any discussion about you working under this new hire to learn more about SBA?\nHow big a bank is this (asset size?) what is the average loan size you originate? So I assume the bank is not currently a certified or preferred SBA lender, but would like to be so they want a hire that gives them instant ability to get their program certified? Are you currently doing Express? Micro? 7a, 504?\nHow big of a portfolio do you personally currently manage?", "replies": [], "depth": 10}], "depth": 9}], "depth": 8}], "depth": 7}, {"id": "hqz3na4", "text": "Have you checked out the course list from the ABA?", "replies": [{"id": "hr0huba", "text": "Yes I was looking at ABA and CFI not sure which one to do or both? CFI says when completed I\u2019ll get CBCA, CMSA and BIDA certifications but not sure how well known these are or if it\u2019s a waste of $ and there\u2019s something better I should spend the $ and time on?", "replies": [{"id": "hr0p7jv", "text": "An Associate degree (2yrs) followed by a Bachelor\u2019s is your game changer. These other certificate programs are added frosting after that but really since time outside work is a valuable commodity, why not use your time to pursue a degree versus these one off certificates that nobody has likely heard of, especially if your goal is Sr lending management. I have a CFP, CCM, CCE and no one has ever asked or cared about it but me. They do ask if I have a college degree (which I got in the evening over many years taking the train into Chicago). That was the table stake requirement that allowed me into lending management positions.", "replies": [{"id": "hr1a7w9", "text": "Associates or Bachelor's in what?", "replies": [{"id": "hr2hrzl", "text": "Associates in Business Administration (or Management), Bachelors in any business discipline you have a passion for, Finance, Accounting, Marketing, Bus Operations are all good for lending managers. Minor in Technology is probably useful in today\u2019s heavy tech market.", "replies": [], "depth": 11}], "depth": 10}, {"id": "hr25qrw", "text": "Thank you", "replies": [], "depth": 10}], "depth": 9}], "depth": 8}], "depth": 7}], "depth": 6}], "depth": 5}], "depth": 4}], "depth": 3}], "depth": 2}], "depth": 1}, {"id": "hqxqcfv", "text": "Get certified with NCREA if you haven\u2019t already. https://www.thencrea.com/", "replies": [{"id": "hqysfen", "text": "Thanks! But I am not a realtor I\u2019m a lender, does it still apply?", "replies": [{"id": "hr2idvd", "text": "That I'm not so sure of. You can take the course for the general knowledge I guess but not sure if the designations would apply.", "replies": [], "depth": 3}], "depth": 2}], "depth": 1}, {"id": "hqxr77k", "text": "CCIM", "replies": [{"id": "hqyec2b", "text": "Second this", "replies": [], "depth": 2}, {"id": "hqypa92", "text": "Thanks, helped", "replies": [], "depth": 2}, {"id": "hrg8ntr", "text": "I have it. Tons of commercial people here. Would recommend checking out your local chapter as a business development source.", "replies": [], "depth": 2}], "depth": 1}]