15 YEAR CRE LOAN STILL POSSIBLE?
We just purchased a $1M warehouse space that will be owner occupied. Most banks are pitching a 7/20 or a 10/20 balloon loan. 

Are any banks doing a 15/20 or 15/25? Also do they ever provide an LE or a doc outlining all the fees?
[{"id": "f86603j", "text": "What\u2019s the reason for a 15-year loan? Just curious.\n\nAs far as fees, the bank can provide the loan fees that will be paid to the bank. Other closing costs can be estimated by the title company.", "replies": [{"id": "f867d8k", "text": "We think rates are super low, so it seems ideal to lock the rate in for a longer period no?\n\nIs there a standard document for the loan fees? I'm used to residential where every bank gives you an LE doc which you can use to compare apples-to-apples.", "replies": [], "depth": 2}], "depth": 1}, {"id": "f8664ta", "text": "Depending on where you are located, I would assume that there are banks near you doing 15/20 or 15/25.  We have a few local lenders here(Denver, CO) doing that.", "replies": [{"id": "f867i9s", "text": "So far I've only had 7/20 and 10/10 offered. Is it like a local commerce bank?", "replies": [{"id": "f867tg6", "text": "The one I am thinking of is more of a regional bank.  BOK Financial.  There are other local banks, not necessarily commerce banks.", "replies": [{"id": "f8686ht", "text": "Thanks. Do you know what kinda rates they're doing on that? So far 4.25% is the best we've got.", "replies": [{"id": "f8815je", "text": "Approximately the same rate that you found.  There are other banks with better rates here, but much more stringent underwriting, but they may not offer the terms you are looking for.", "replies": [], "depth": 5}], "depth": 4}], "depth": 3}], "depth": 2}], "depth": 1}, {"id": "f86bq97", "text": "You may be able to secure a 15-year fixed rate loan because it\u2019s owner occupied, but I don\u2019t finance anything longer than 10 years with a 30 year amortization. \n\nNope, no standard form for fees.", "replies": [{"id": "f86uefn", "text": "What type of company are you with? CBMS, LifeCo, Bank?", "replies": [{"id": "f86uuat", "text": "Bank", "replies": [], "depth": 3}], "depth": 2}], "depth": 1}, {"id": "f86brcp", "text": "Yes, keep asking around. In my area for example &lt; 1/2 do it and none advertise it. \nWorst case scenario you can still pay as if you\u2019re on a 15 year amortization schedule and when it comes time to renew you\u2019ll be at a higher rate but a lot less principal balance (make sure your loan allows this).", "replies": [{"id": "f86ua15", "text": "I've been calling some big banks and a few small regional ones. I don't know if I'm in a weird market, but the small banks don't seem like they want to offer anything beyond 7 years. Chase can do 10/20. BOA is saying they have a 15/15 and a 20/20 but I won't believe it until it's on paper.", "replies": [{"id": "f86yq8u", "text": "It's tough due to the markets. Try a credit union.", "replies": [], "depth": 3}], "depth": 2}], "depth": 1}, {"id": "f86eygt", "text": "Dont go to banks then, go find a different form of debt: hedge funds, loan shops, insurance firm (maybe because it's owner occupied they'll do it), etc", "replies": [{"id": "f86tlvc", "text": "From what I can see LifeCo's and CBMS loans are 10 years or less. Do you have anything specific in mind.", "replies": [{"id": "f86u6rq", "text": "prob not gonna get anything from lifeco but all commercial debt shops underwrite their own loans. If you ask them for something custom like a 15 year loan, they'll be able to underwrite it and it might fit their mandate still.\n\nLiterally just contact any of those places. Here's one that specifically says they do 15 years: http://allegiantrec.com/products/", "replies": [{"id": "f86yw1c", "text": "I'll contact a few of those companies, seems like they do much bigger/complicated deals than our level. Do you think their rates will be good?", "replies": [{"id": "f86z70t", "text": "You should know that there is a ton of capital in the market and it\u2019s tough out there for debt shops. They\u2019re desperate to put capital to work. I\u2019ll be surprised if one of them don\u2019t bite\n\nYes they\u2019ll be competitive  rates because of the amount of capital out there", "replies": [{"id": "f86zqv9", "text": "Interesting, my instinct was that these shops were for businesses who couldn't borrow easily from the bank, I guess I was wrong.", "replies": [{"id": "f870j2a", "text": "Hell no\n\nBanks are only one source of financing. Banks, Hedge funds, Debt shops, life insurance firms, seller financing, crowd sourcing, pension funds, private investors, mortgage REITs, and other entities all provide debt financing.\n\nAll of these entities or individuals have different investment horizons and mandates. For example, a life insurance firm wants to invest cash they have and get a cash flow in return that matches the annuities they\u2019ll have to pay in the future. This means they want longer term, ultra conservative investments. You should be able to find somebody that can match the risk of the property and length of your contract.", "replies": [{"id": "f8712s3", "text": "Sounds good. Would you say non-bank lenders are quicker or slower to fund deals? We have a 30 day close window and our current bank is able to fund it within that time. Of course I want to shop for the best rate and terms, but if we have to borrow to buy time it may get expensive and negate the gain we have with a better loan.", "replies": [{"id": "f871dh3", "text": "I don\u2019t think it\u2019s bank vs non bank tbh\n\nI think it\u2019s big vs small shop. Small shops have less deal flow and more flexibility so they\u2019ll be more willing to accommodate you and your terms\n\nBig shops have multiple screens and investment committees to pass through plus their analysts might be tied up on other deals and can\u2019t underwrite it\n\nAlso obviously the more complex the deal is, the harder it is to underwrite and understand the risks involved. As you move away from core and core plus deals toward value add and opportunistic deals, the underwriting/approval time gets longer", "replies": [], "depth": 9}], "depth": 8}], "depth": 7}], "depth": 6}], "depth": 5}], "depth": 4}], "depth": 3}], "depth": 2}], "depth": 1}, {"id": "f86j4jd", "text": "My previous employer {$8 billion commercial bank} had an owner occupied program for 15 years at a fixed rate. But that was about five years ago and it was approved for a maximum of $100 Million in  the aggregate and that bucket got filled really quickly. \n\nIt will be very hard to find a bank to do that type of structure. I think you will have more luck trying for a 25 year amortization than getting a 15 year fixed rate.", "replies": [{"id": "f86ucm8", "text": "You mean try to get a 10/25? Do you mind PM'ing me the bank?", "replies": [{"id": "f86y40i", "text": "This is a local bank, I doubt we live in the same County. I think you should approach the banks already offering you ten years and ask for a 25 year amortization.", "replies": [{"id": "f86zo6v", "text": "I dont think the amortization is our goal we want to lock in a good rate for longer.", "replies": [], "depth": 4}], "depth": 3}], "depth": 2}], "depth": 1}, {"id": "f86mhkl", "text": "Leverage. If interest is cheap leverage the lower rates. Get a 25 term IMO. That\u2019s what I have on $1.7M commercial property purchased in 2013.", "replies": [{"id": "f86tydj", "text": "Sorry I'm not sure I follow? Leverage something to lower my rate? Can you provide specifics?", "replies": [{"id": "f86ubqo", "text": "Just mean the saying... cash is king. So if you can use cheap loan at 25 yr vs 15 yr, it makes more sense to use the longer term. IMO", "replies": [], "depth": 3}], "depth": 2}], "depth": 1}, {"id": "f86zlma", "text": "I\u2019m a mortgage broker and have 15/15 options. The problem is qualifying on a 15 year amortization.", "replies": [{"id": "f86zwux", "text": "Is it easier to get a 15/20 or 15/25? I'm surprised the amortization is the tricky part. Is it because the bank doesn't want the debt getting paid off too quick with no chance to refi?", "replies": [{"id": "f871bxn", "text": "Personally never seen a 15/20, but a longer am is generally easier to qualify for. All else being equal, it\u2019s way easier but different banks have different stress rates and Debt Coverage ratio requirements. \n\n\nThe issue with a 15 year am is qualifying your cash flow. Your payments are nearly double what a 25 year am and you need a minimum 1.25 global and business cash flow (including new mtg pmt) to qualify for the loan amount.", "replies": [], "depth": 3}], "depth": 2}], "depth": 1}, {"id": "f88ll86", "text": "Banks don\u2019t provide loan estimates for commercial loans, only residential. You\u2019re not likely to find anyone looking to do a 15 year fixed rate for a commercial property. You\u2019re best bet is a 10/20 year option and make a payment like you\u2019d be paying it off in 15 years. 10 years from now it\u2019ll be very easy to extend or refinance the loan with the extra principal made. I\u2019d also talk to your cpa about this plan. Remember the structure will be depreciated over 27.5 years. Not sure about your cash flow situation but if the principal amortization is much faster than the depreciation you could be setting yourself to be paying taxes on paper income when you\u2019ve already spent the cash on principal repayment.", "replies": [], "depth": 1}, {"id": "f8a2r73", "text": "Try the Scotsman's Guide for potential lender's, and try to get a second from the current owner to bring your primary loan request down to a lower amount.", "replies": [{"id": "f8acx8r", "text": "Thanks! I didn't know Scotsman Guide was a thing. Looks pretty good.  The bank owned the property, we bought it through an auction.", "replies": [{"id": "f8aht1u", "text": "Good Luck.", "replies": [], "depth": 3}], "depth": 2}], "depth": 1}]