user3884: I'm looking for any feedback on positional ideas I've missed on a recent KID game I played (as black). We were both about 1900 Elo, although I was slightly higher rated. I've obviously already analyzed it with an engine, pointing out a few of my missed tactical shots in the game in these annotations. But this was a very complicated game, so I would like any and all feedback on better lines and/or positional ideas for either side.
[FEN " "]
1. c4 Nf6 2. Nc3 g6 3. e4 d6 4. Be2 Bg7 5. d4 O-O 6. Rb1 a5 { Trying to shut down the obvious b4 plan by white. The more natural c5 is slightly better, but I had already decided on going for a classical KID with an e5 break. } 7. Nf3 e5 8. Bg5 (8. dxe5 dxe5 9. Qxd8 Rxd8 10. Nxe5 Nxe4 11. Nxe4 Bxe5 $17) 8... Nc6? { Mistakenly assuming that white's only play was d5, and completely missing that this move loses an exchange. } (8... h6 {The move I'll play next time I see this position. } 9. Be3 (9. Bh4 g5) 9... Ng4 10. Bc1) 9. dxe5 dxe5 10. Qxd8 Rxd8 11. Rc1? { This mistake fails to capitalize on my poor play. } (11. Nd5 Nxd5 12. cxd5 f6 13. dxc6 fxg5 14. Nxg5 bxc6 { Engine-like best play temporarily holds on to all material but completely ruins all chances of black fighting for a win. }) 11... h6 12. Be3 Ng4 (12... Nd4!? 13. Nxe5 Nxe2 14. Kxe2 Nxe4 15. Nxe4 Bxe5 { Wins the two bishops and retains active pieces. }) 13. Bd2 Be6?! (13... Nb4!? 14. a3 Na6 { This maneuver keys in on the weak c5 square. But making repeated knight moves means the queenside development is lacking. }) 14. O-O Nd4!? { Acquiring a passed pawn almost by force. The knight lands on a beautiful square and cannot be kicked away. } 15. Nxd4 exd4 16. Nb5 Rd7?! {An awkward move - I thought I was better here, but my opponent comes at me with a lot of pressure.} (16... Rac8?! 17. Bxa5 d3! 18. Bxg4 Bxg4 19. f3 Be6 20. b3 Rd7 { I'm unconvinced by the computer line which makes no sense to me. }) 17. f4!! { An extremely strong reply and a move I had completely missed. With f5 coming, the knight can be left stranded on g4 in many lines. } 17... f5!? { Gives white a passed pawn with e5, but I figured black's would be stronger. } (17... c6 18. f5)  (17... Re8 18. f5 Bxf5 { The computer move to stop f5. }) 18. c5!? { A very interesting pawn sacrifice that turns the knight (and eventually c1 rook) into incredibly active pieces. } (18. exf5 Bxf5 19. c5) 18... fxe4 19. c6! bxc6 20. Rxc6 d3!! { There's no time to cower from each other's threats. Black is pushing through in the center and white is crashing through on the queenside. } 21. Bd1 Bf5? { Immediately after deciding that I had to play actively, I falter with a slow move. I needed to keep up the active play with the brilliant Bd5! } (21... Bd5!! 22. Bxg4 (22. Rxc7 Rxc7 23. Nxc7 Bd4+ 24. Kh1 Nf2+ 25. Rxf2 Bxa2!!)  (22. Rxg6 Nf6 23. Nc3 Kh7 24. f5 Bf7 25. Rg3) 22... Bxc6 23. Bxd7 Bxd7) 22. h3 Nf6 23. b4?? { I truly have no idea why this move was played. } 23... axb4 24. g4 Rb8!? { Attack - counterattack. } (24... Rxa2?? 25. Bb3+) 25. Nxc7 Rc8 26. gxf5 Rdxc7 (26... gxf5 27. Bb3+ Kh7 28. Rfc1 {The reason you have to immediately take the pinned knight.}) 27. Bb3+ (27. Ra6 gxf5 28. Bb3+ Kh7) 27... Kh7 28. Ra6? (28. fxg6+ Kxg6 29. f5+ Kh7 { The line I expected. Does the bishop pair and active rook make up for black's 2 passed pawns? }) 28... gxf5 29. Kf2?? { An interesting idea - allowing the king to become a blockader and the rook to use the open g file. But it's ultimately way too slow. White is down 2 pawns and must show compensation. } (29. Be6 Re8 30. Bxf5+ Kh8 31. Bxb4 { The line I expected. While material is balanced, I felt that black's two central pawns should rule the day. }) 29... Rc6 30. Rxc6 (30. Ra7 R8c7 31. Rxc7 Rxc7 32. Be6 Rc2 33. Bxf5+ Kh8 { I was sure I had enough to win in this line. }) 30... Rxc6 31. Be3 Bf8! { Trading bishops and ensuring that black's king can rely upon the dark squares. } 32. Rd1 (32. Bd4 Bc5 33. Ke3 Bxd4+ 34. Kxd4 Nh5 35. Ke3 Rg6 { An interesting sideline I was trying to evaluate. }) 32... Bc5 33. Rg1 Bxe3+ 34. Kxe3 Rd6!! { Giving up the open file, but preparing Nd5+ after which the game is immediately decided. } 35. Rg2 (35. Rc1 Nd5+ 36. Bxd5 Rxd5 37. Rc4 d2) 35... Nd5+ 36. Bxd5 Rxd5 37. Rg1 d2 { Simplification. From this move onwards, I saw to the end. } 38. Ke2 d1=Q+ 39. Rxd1 Rxd1 40. Kxd1 Kg6 41. Kc2 Kh5 42. Kb3 e3! { And the white king must return to stop the queening e pawn. } 43. Kc2 Kh4 44. Kd3 Kxh3 45. Kxe3 Kg3 {White surrenders.} *

In particular, I'm curious about what people think about: 

14... Nd4 - is it too premature to start thinking about passed pawns as soon as the queens are off?
16... Rd7 - this awkward move was very hard to make. Is black just worse here, even with the passed pawn?

c5 - sacrificing a pawn, but drumming up a lot of counterplay on the queenside. I felt that this move was a blunder during the game, but the pressure I came under seems to prove that it was not.


b4 - What's the point of this move?


Be6 - Is my assessment of this sideline accurate? Does black have enough to win?


Looking forward to your analysis! Hopefully others find this game instructive; I certainly learned a lot playing (and subsequently analyzing) this middlegame.

user9684: 14...Nd4: it's never too early to think about passed pawns.
16...Rd7: I think black is fine here, but I would consider Nf6 with a counterattack on e4 or d3.

c5: I would consider e5, shutting down the B-g7, or Bxg4 to win a tempo and play c5 next move.
b4: This is a question for your opponent.  I prefer a4, fixing the weakness on a5, or Bb3+, controlling d5 and allowing the other rook to enter the game.
Be6: The assessment is correct as 32... Nd5 wins outright.

In the first variation, 10. Nxe5 is incorrect.  Better is 10. Bg5 with the threat of Nd5.
I've suggested this before: post the game on lichess.org.  It's free to join, the analyses will be better, and this forum isn't really meant for this type of question.
Note:  I'm only a 2000, so my superficial opinions may not be any better than yours.

user14202: 
14... Nd4 - is it too premature to start thinking about passed pawns ...?

...Nd4 is highly desirable for a number of reasons!  Besides the fact that White is inclined to capture an give you a passed pawn, you get more space, extend your dark square bishop and free your c-pawn to cover the d5 hole.

16... Rd7 - this awkward move was very hard to make. Is black just worse here?

Nothing wrong with Rd7 that I can see.  

c5 - sacrificing a pawn, but drumming up a lot of counterplay on the
  queenside. I felt that this move was a blunder during the game, but
  the pressure I came under seems to prove that it was not.

18.c5?? a terrible blunder!  White gives you connected passers in the middle of the board for what -- a chance to get back the crappy pawn on c7?  This is the losing move in my opinion.
Besides those questions let me comment:
I don't agree with a lot of your annotations 
for example, why is 17.f4 a double exclam?  At best it is !? of course after 17...f5 (which is standard) White should have played 18.e5
I do agree 13...Be6?! is poor, but favor 13...f5 over your suggested Nb4. 

3884: <p>I'm looking for any feedback on positional ideas I've missed on a recent KID game I played (as black). We were both about 1900 Elo, although I was slightly higher rated. I've obviously already analyzed it with an engine, pointing out a few of my missed tactical shots in the game in these annotations. But this was a very complicated game, so I would like any and all feedback on better lines and/or positional ideas for either side.</p>

<pre><code>[FEN " "]
1. c4 Nf6 2. Nc3 g6 3. e4 d6 4. Be2 Bg7 5. d4 O-O 6. Rb1 a5 { Trying to shut down the obvious b4 plan by white. The more natural c5 is slightly better, but I had already decided on going for a classical KID with an e5 break. } 7. Nf3 e5 8. Bg5 (8. dxe5 dxe5 9. Qxd8 Rxd8 10. Nxe5 Nxe4 11. Nxe4 Bxe5 $17) 8... Nc6? { Mistakenly assuming that white's only play was d5, and completely missing that this move loses an exchange. } (8... h6 {The move I'll play next time I see this position. } 9. Be3 (9. Bh4 g5) 9... Ng4 10. Bc1) 9. dxe5 dxe5 10. Qxd8 Rxd8 11. Rc1? { This mistake fails to capitalize on my poor play. } (11. Nd5 Nxd5 12. cxd5 f6 13. dxc6 fxg5 14. Nxg5 bxc6 { Engine-like best play temporarily holds on to all material but completely ruins all chances of black fighting for a win. }) 11... h6 12. Be3 Ng4 (12... Nd4!? 13. Nxe5 Nxe2 14. Kxe2 Nxe4 15. Nxe4 Bxe5 { Wins the two bishops and retains active pieces. }) 13. Bd2 Be6?! (13... Nb4!? 14. a3 Na6 { This maneuver keys in on the weak c5 square. But making repeated knight moves means the queenside development is lacking. }) 14. O-O Nd4!? { Acquiring a passed pawn almost by force. The knight lands on a beautiful square and cannot be kicked away. } 15. Nxd4 exd4 16. Nb5 Rd7?! {An awkward move - I thought I was better here, but my opponent comes at me with a lot of pressure.} (16... Rac8?! 17. Bxa5 d3! 18. Bxg4 Bxg4 19. f3 Be6 20. b3 Rd7 { I'm unconvinced by the computer line which makes no sense to me. }) 17. f4!! { An extremely strong reply and a move I had completely missed. With f5 coming, the knight can be left stranded on g4 in many lines. } 17... f5!? { Gives white a passed pawn with e5, but I figured black's would be stronger. } (17... c6 18. f5)  (17... Re8 18. f5 Bxf5 { The computer move to stop f5. }) 18. c5!? { A very interesting pawn sacrifice that turns the knight (and eventually c1 rook) into incredibly active pieces. } (18. exf5 Bxf5 19. c5) 18... fxe4 19. c6! bxc6 20. Rxc6 d3!! { There's no time to cower from each other's threats. Black is pushing through in the center and white is crashing through on the queenside. } 21. Bd1 Bf5? { Immediately after deciding that I had to play actively, I falter with a slow move. I needed to keep up the active play with the brilliant Bd5! } (21... Bd5!! 22. Bxg4 (22. Rxc7 Rxc7 23. Nxc7 Bd4+ 24. Kh1 Nf2+ 25. Rxf2 Bxa2!!)  (22. Rxg6 Nf6 23. Nc3 Kh7 24. f5 Bf7 25. Rg3) 22... Bxc6 23. Bxd7 Bxd7) 22. h3 Nf6 23. b4?? { I truly have no idea why this move was played. } 23... axb4 24. g4 Rb8!? { Attack - counterattack. } (24... Rxa2?? 25. Bb3+) 25. Nxc7 Rc8 26. gxf5 Rdxc7 (26... gxf5 27. Bb3+ Kh7 28. Rfc1 {The reason you have to immediately take the pinned knight.}) 27. Bb3+ (27. Ra6 gxf5 28. Bb3+ Kh7) 27... Kh7 28. Ra6? (28. fxg6+ Kxg6 29. f5+ Kh7 { The line I expected. Does the bishop pair and active rook make up for black's 2 passed pawns? }) 28... gxf5 29. Kf2?? { An interesting idea - allowing the king to become a blockader and the rook to use the open g file. But it's ultimately way too slow. White is down 2 pawns and must show compensation. } (29. Be6 Re8 30. Bxf5+ Kh8 31. Bxb4 { The line I expected. While material is balanced, I felt that black's two central pawns should rule the day. }) 29... Rc6 30. Rxc6 (30. Ra7 R8c7 31. Rxc7 Rxc7 32. Be6 Rc2 33. Bxf5+ Kh8 { I was sure I had enough to win in this line. }) 30... Rxc6 31. Be3 Bf8! { Trading bishops and ensuring that black's king can rely upon the dark squares. } 32. Rd1 (32. Bd4 Bc5 33. Ke3 Bxd4+ 34. Kxd4 Nh5 35. Ke3 Rg6 { An interesting sideline I was trying to evaluate. }) 32... Bc5 33. Rg1 Bxe3+ 34. Kxe3 Rd6!! { Giving up the open file, but preparing Nd5+ after which the game is immediately decided. } 35. Rg2 (35. Rc1 Nd5+ 36. Bxd5 Rxd5 37. Rc4 d2) 35... Nd5+ 36. Bxd5 Rxd5 37. Rg1 d2 { Simplification. From this move onwards, I saw to the end. } 38. Ke2 d1=Q+ 39. Rxd1 Rxd1 40. Kxd1 Kg6 41. Kc2 Kh5 42. Kb3 e3! { And the white king must return to stop the queening e pawn. } 43. Kc2 Kh4 44. Kd3 Kxh3 45. Kxe3 Kg3 {White surrenders.} *
</code></pre>

<p>In particular, I'm curious about what people think about: </p>

<ul>
<li>14... Nd4 - is it too premature to start thinking about passed pawns as soon as the queens are off?</li>
<li>16... Rd7 - this awkward move was very hard to make. Is black just worse here, even with the passed pawn?</li>
<li><ol start="18">
<li>c5 - sacrificing a pawn, but drumming up a lot of counterplay on the queenside. I felt that this move was a blunder during the game, but the pressure I came under seems to prove that it was not.</li>
</ol></li>
<li><ol start="23">
<li>b4 - What's the point of this move?</li>
</ol></li>
<li><ol start="29">
<li>Be6 - Is my assessment of this sideline accurate? Does black have enough to win?</li>
</ol></li>
</ul>

<p>Looking forward to your analysis! Hopefully others find this game instructive; I certainly learned a lot playing (and subsequently analyzing) this middlegame.</p>
 9684: <p>14...Nd4: it's never too early to think about passed pawns.</p>

<p>16...Rd7: I think black is fine here, but I would consider Nf6 with a counterattack on e4 or d3.</p>

<ol start="18">
<li><p>c5: I would consider e5, shutting down the B-g7, or Bxg4 to win a tempo and play c5 next move.</p></li>
<li><p>b4: This is a question for your opponent.  I prefer a4, fixing the weakness on a5, or Bb3+, controlling d5 and allowing the other rook to enter the game.</p></li>
<li><p>Be6: The assessment is correct as 32... Nd5 wins outright.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>In the first variation, 10. Nxe5 is incorrect.  Better is 10. Bg5 with the threat of Nd5.</p>

<p>I've suggested this before: post the game on lichess.org.  It's free to join, the analyses will be better, and this forum isn't really meant for this type of question.</p>

<p>Note:  I'm only a 2000, so my superficial opinions may not be any better than yours.</p>
 14202: <blockquote>
  <p>14... Nd4 - is it too premature to start thinking about passed pawns ...?</p>
</blockquote>

<p>...Nd4 is highly desirable for a number of reasons!  Besides the fact that White is inclined to capture an give you a passed pawn, you get more space, extend your dark square bishop and free your c-pawn to cover the d5 hole.</p>

<blockquote>
  <p>16... Rd7 - this awkward move was very hard to make. Is black just worse here?</p>
</blockquote>

<p>Nothing wrong with Rd7 that I can see.  </p>

<blockquote>
  <p>c5 - sacrificing a pawn, but drumming up a lot of counterplay on the
  queenside. I felt that this move was a blunder during the game, but
  the pressure I came under seems to prove that it was not.</p>
</blockquote>

<p>18.c5?? a terrible blunder!  White gives you connected passers in the middle of the board for what -- a chance to get back the crappy pawn on c7?  This is the losing move in my opinion.</p>

<p>Besides those questions let me comment:
I don't agree with a lot of your annotations 
for example, why is 17.f4 a double exclam?  At best it is !? of course after 17...f5 (which is standard) White should have played 18.e5</p>

<p>I do agree 13...Be6?! is poor, but favor 13...f5 over your suggested Nb4. </p>
