They had bunkers with thousands of Germans. They had tripwire machine guns. They didn't want people leaving. So that wall stood from 1961 to 1989, and people still tried to leave, even with the shoot to kill orders. Now estimates are between 138 and over 200 East Berliners that were killed trying to cross that border. But over 5,000 were successful. Actually, a few days after the wall went up, we have Corporal Conrad Schumann in this famous photograph kind of hopscotching across the rolls of the barbed wire to get across.