I was helping to install some kind of big machinery. I had a big oil can and I forced oil into the machine. It came out thru the other side. Carter was with me. He said Joe Grabar had a gift of gab and I know he has. I walked to another part of the department. I t was dark. I heard someone make noise in the locker end of the department and I knew someone was sleeping. To my surprise, I saw Hilts walk out.