# Talk:Invocation ritual
You think this could be merged with Vibrating Square? Neither of them has too much text, I mean.
- Potman (Guest), 17.12.2006, 14:00

Is it possible to ascend without the Bell of Opening?  According to the quest page, it is:  "A quest nemesis is the one who you must defeat to reclaim your quest artifact and the Bell of Opening. It's possible to ascend without killing your quest nemesis, but this is exceedingly rare."
According to the unwinnable page, it is not:  "The quest must be completed to get the Bell of Opening, but cannot be entered if the player is not of his or her original alignment."
If I remember correctly, you get the Bell of Opening off the corpse of your quest nemesis.  If the first statement is true, there is another way to do the invocation ritual without the Bell or another way to enter Moloch's Sanctum without doing the invocation ritual.  Does anyone have any ideas?  
Or maybe I'm just completely wrong and there's some way to get the Bell from your nemesis without killing it.  If that's the case, then both statements would be true.  --MadDawg2552 05:05, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

It may be referring to pacifist conduct, where you don't kill the nemesis yourself; also, remember that you don't have to kill someone to relieve him of his possessions (for example, as a nymph). --Mogri 05:48, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
I have never done it, but it appears that there are ways of getting the Bell without killing your quest nemesis.  But it is not clear that even killing your nemesis equals "completing the quest"--to complete the quest, you have to bring the quest artifact to your quest leader.  And, as far as I can tell, you don't have to do this to win the game.--Ckbryant 20:43, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
It is quite feasible to steal the Book from the Wizard of Yendor without killing him (nymph polyself; level drain + pet nymph + conflict; gain level for pet nymph + conflict; levelport up, hoping to land on or right next to the obnoxious guy's spot + autopickup + wielded paralysis; etc.). This is useful if you want to farm wraith without interference. By extension, it should be possible to leave the quest nemesis alive. Tjr 17:16, December 15, 2009 (UTC)
ordering of bell, book, candles
The article says that "it is slightly safer to ring the Bell second."  I don't agree with this strategy.  At the very least, there are valid reasons for lighting the Candelabrum of Invocation second, and we should mention these reasons.  Most notably, the Candelabrum gives off light, and light is a valuable resource, especially light of such a large radius.  By lighting the Candelabrum second, you conserve (at least) one turn of light. djao 18:51, December 14, 2009 (UTC)

Added discussion of invocation order. djao 12:58, December 21, 2009 (UTC)