# Talk:Unofficial conduct
Contents

1 Toolless
2 Inventoryless
3 Zen
4 Popular conducts
5 Let's remove junk
6 Inventoryless again

Toolless
If you want to get in to chests or large boxes, can #forcing the lock with a blunt weapon to attempt to destroy the container (and zapping a /oLocking if you fail) break this unofficial conduct? Would using the unused (deferred?) feature #tip to upend a bag of its contents also break it? -- Kalon 00:32, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

Inventoryless
The inventoryless conduct sounds like an extremely difficult one. Has it ever been done? I think the article needs an example or two about this. —ZeroOne (talk&nbsp;/&nbsp;@) 23:34, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

Zen
First zen rogue that I am avare of was "3.4.3 4331546 7 -5 49 161 161 0 20060806 20060802 1031 Rog Hum Mal Cha ix,ascended" at NAO. Before crash ttyrec: http://alt.org/nethack/getoldttyrec.php?player=ix starts from 145. and ascend in 152. --84.248.118.187 15:52, September 18, 2009 (UTC)

Who was the player? If possible, would you please linkify the article to point to a reference for this ascension? -Tjr 15:32, September 18, 2009 (UTC)
Popular conducts
Are "inventoryless", "god's will" and "no identification" actually popular conducts? The first two in particular I've never really heard about, and I'm not sure they shouldn't be under "other conducts" instead. If noone objects, I'll go ahead and move these later. -- Schnee 12:30, May 27, 2010 (UTC)

Go ahead. God's will and no ID are more or less exaggerated sub-challenges of neutral-atheist-pacifist and illiterate, respectively. Inventoryless does not look play-tested to me. Tjr 23:39, May 27, 2010 (UTC)
Done. -- Schnee 18:44, May 28, 2010 (UTC)
Let's remove junk
Let's remove the "conducts" nobody is seriously pursuing or that are too hard. Or at least mark them. I suggest the bar for inclusing is a game reaching Medusa's.
As a corollary, conducts here should link to a successful game or ascension post.
Any opinions? --Tjr 14:40, 6 January 2011 (UTC)

Inventoryless again
Seriously, does anybody actually attempt this? If not it should be removed from here. 75.58.123.252 17:32, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

I vote remove. I cannot imagine a viable strategy to pull that off, short of RNG manipulation. --Tjr 20:50, 18 September 2011 (UTC)
Maybe startscum for a ring shop and sink, quaff from sink in hope of becoming a metallivore, and eat all the rings off the floor for hopefully PC and polymorphitis? Very unlikely though. 75.58.123.252 21:21, 18 September 2011 (UTC)
A SLASH'EM doppelganger could just possibly pull it off; but if there aren't any newsgroup posts or ttyrecs of people at least trying (seriously, as in more than just a few levels) to do so, I also vote remove. -Ion frigate 01:54, 19 September 2011 (UTC)
Done. --Tjr 01:23, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
A bit late, but a doppelganger is certainly a good candidate for inventoryless. My first attempt as a monk brought me to level 19, killed in a single turn of combat by a ghoul mage. Quite anticlimatic, as I had just killed Master Kaen as a giant shoggoth. Pulling this off in vanilla would be damn near impossible without additional help; the wizard of yendor is surrounded by stone, so getting him out of there with no reliable means of digging, water filling, or polymorph would be an insane challenge. -- Qazmlpok 17:44, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
Can't an umber hulk chew through rock? --Tjr 20:16, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
And xorns phase and survive underwater. 75.58.123.252 20:58, 20 September 2011 (UTC) EDIT: Oh, and a mmf self-poly could wake him up from outside the tower.
Xorn wouldn't be useful as a pet without massive gain level. Umber hulks can't swim so they wouldn't chew the rock without a boulder filling it first. Self-polymorph isn't simple to do when you have no inventory; the only way to get controlled polymorph in vanilla is to eat the ring, and that has to be done without identifying it first if you didn't start with it. -- Qazmlpok 21:22, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
You could quaff from sinks, then eat all the $300 rings you can find. (#Chat to find the price). Yes it's a low chance of success. Nobody ever talked about pets. --Tjr 21:26, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
Of course without gold you're stuck stealing the ring.  Killing the shopkeeper is likely impossible unless you get a lucky mmf polymorph, but I guess you could eat a nymph corpse beforehand so you could teleport out of the shop.  Of course that leaves angry shopkeepers on god knows how many levels.  Not to mention the fact that you really need to find and eat both polymorph and polymorph control - the latter alone doesn't do you much good if you end up in a long stretch without any sinks. -Ion frigate 05:22, 21 September 2011 (UTC)